I was given my first sourdough starter by my sister-in-law who told me it was a legendary starter originally from Alaska and in her family for decades. At that point I had never baked bread before, but shortly after found myself in a situation where time and circumstances almost begged me to try out the starter for that purpose. I quickly became hooked on bread baking, and my husband on the resultant product. We dragged that starter (unnamed, but, nevertheless, loved!) from west to east in the U.S., to Germany and Austria - where we lived, so lived the starter. Tragically one summer our starter met an ignominious end: on a vacation on a farm in rural Germany, several helpful German ladies cleaned out the farmer's refrigerator; smelling only sour from out carefully transported sourdough crock...they threw it in the fish pond! I cried!!
I am happy to say that, a number of years later, at our son's wedding in Juneau, Alaska, we visited a cafe whose specialty was sourdough baked goods (from a 100-year-old starter). We wheedled the owner into giving us some starter, then transferred it to baby food jars with punctured lids so we could get it through airport security! The cafe has since closed, but we use the starter on a regular basis and have passed it to friends and family, so it will live on. One of these days, we may even name it:)
30
Where do you recommend trying sourdough bread in NYC?
9
what is the best way to keep your starter alive when going away on vacation ie. out of the country? I have some given to me a few years ago but when I was away for a couple of weeks and returned, it looked and smelled pretty weird and I threw it out (it had been refrigerated). Could it have been saved? I would love to make another but travel a couple of times a year.
38
I'm late to this thread, but I've been working from a super resource this past month. "Modern Breads/Wild Yeast: How To Bake MORE Bread" by Michael Kalanty. It's answered just about any question I ever had about using a sour starter. There aren't a ton of bread recipes, but the techniques work really well in the home kitchen.
7
Has anyone ever tried using yogurt in sourdough starter?
2
Sourdough results from a combination of natural fermenters including wild yeasts, lactic acid bacteria and acetic acid bacteria. Yogurt (and its whey) would be a source of lactic acid bacteria among other things. By itself it's not enough to make the dough very sour, or to make it rise. But you could substitute it for buttermilk in the waffle recipe and see if you like the result!
4
Has anyone successfully used this stater for Jim Lehey's no-knead bread recipe?
I've been making his recipe for years now and never had a bad loaf. I didn't feed my first batch of starter for the first couple of days and my no-knead bread came out like a rock hard bread discus. I'm now in day 6 of my second batch of starter, which I've fed every day, and the no-knead loaf I just baked came out like a slightly thicker discus - I didn't get nearly the amount of rising either while it was in the bowl for 18 hours, or on the counter for 2 hours.
The second starter batch looks and smells just like the description in the article so I can't figure out if this is just no good for no-knead bread or if I'm doing something wrong.
I've been making his recipe for years now and never had a bad loaf. I didn't feed my first batch of starter for the first couple of days and my no-knead bread came out like a rock hard bread discus. I'm now in day 6 of my second batch of starter, which I've fed every day, and the no-knead loaf I just baked came out like a slightly thicker discus - I didn't get nearly the amount of rising either while it was in the bowl for 18 hours, or on the counter for 2 hours.
The second starter batch looks and smells just like the description in the article so I can't figure out if this is just no good for no-knead bread or if I'm doing something wrong.
4
I believe Jim's no-knead recipe utilizes commercial yeast. Since the sour dough starter doesn't have commercial yeast, it is not appropriate for use in the no-knead recipe.
6
Mine has been sitting in the glass jar for days after I added the additional oz of flour and the remaining pineapple juice... Nothing seems to be happening and it still smells pleasant, if a little more sour than before. Any ideas what's going on? Why isn't it frothy yet?
3
Same here — and mine never did get frothy. Same pleasant but sour smell. I waited until day three (yesterday) and saw no activity. So I decided to split mine in two and feed one half and leave the other half alone (other than stirring). The one I fed started bubbling right away and still is. The one I left alone is still the same.
What I fed it: 50g of flour and 30g of water. While I understand you usually want equal parts flour and water, I did more flour because my starter was quite liquid, always with “hooch” on top.
I think now I will wait and see if it doubles and then pick up with the recipe again, the part where you make the starter. Fingers crossed!
What I fed it: 50g of flour and 30g of water. While I understand you usually want equal parts flour and water, I did more flour because my starter was quite liquid, always with “hooch” on top.
I think now I will wait and see if it doubles and then pick up with the recipe again, the part where you make the starter. Fingers crossed!
5
It seems simple: flour, water, & salt--yes, starter,too --but that really is merely flour & water with some hidden microbes, et al
the challenges i had in perfecting my bread baking experience was finding good source documents. in hindsight, starting with maggie glezer's "artisan bread" was a bit of mistake since her book is more suited to the coffee table than learning the ins and outs of sourdough. my next stop was the local library including many of peter reinhart's publications; especially "artisan breads every day." lastly came the many visits to the chain book stores for lots and lots of useless takes on bread baking and a few with glimpses of good advice. i finally shelled out cash for daniel leader's "local breads" and found it inspiring and informational.
one of the problems with books is the bent of the authors who, for the most part, transition to the mass production of quality bread. lost in the translation is useful information for bread baking novices with hand tools. for example, not one book talks about the kitchen surface for kneeding bread, yet how many of us out there are damned with 4-5" ceramic tiled counters!
but in the end i figured out to ignore the 20 (or 30 or 40?) bread recipes in a book and focus on one (or maybe two) simple recipes. the key to good bread baking is making a fairly consistent loaf. i've gone thru 300 lbs of semolina bread four and i'm still amazed at differences in each loaf & the new knowledge i grasped each time so just PRACTICE
the challenges i had in perfecting my bread baking experience was finding good source documents. in hindsight, starting with maggie glezer's "artisan bread" was a bit of mistake since her book is more suited to the coffee table than learning the ins and outs of sourdough. my next stop was the local library including many of peter reinhart's publications; especially "artisan breads every day." lastly came the many visits to the chain book stores for lots and lots of useless takes on bread baking and a few with glimpses of good advice. i finally shelled out cash for daniel leader's "local breads" and found it inspiring and informational.
one of the problems with books is the bent of the authors who, for the most part, transition to the mass production of quality bread. lost in the translation is useful information for bread baking novices with hand tools. for example, not one book talks about the kitchen surface for kneeding bread, yet how many of us out there are damned with 4-5" ceramic tiled counters!
but in the end i figured out to ignore the 20 (or 30 or 40?) bread recipes in a book and focus on one (or maybe two) simple recipes. the key to good bread baking is making a fairly consistent loaf. i've gone thru 300 lbs of semolina bread four and i'm still amazed at differences in each loaf & the new knowledge i grasped each time so just PRACTICE
9
I am interested to know if one can use a gluten-free flour for the starter. has anyone tried this and with what ingredients?
4
King Arthur Flour has some guidelines on gluten-free starters on their website.
3
I used a gluten free mix to start a gluten free sourdough. adding a bit of apple juice. It took a long time to start, but the bread was so good, my husband ate too much of it and had high blood sugar. So it sat getting fed but not used, as I threw it out.
I saved some of it dried to use next time. It's in the freezer now.
I saved some of it dried to use next time. It's in the freezer now.
2
1. Can anyone tell me if the cultures survive baking and remain alive when you eat the bread or other baked goods? Do we get the benefit of ingesting the cultures, as we do when we eat yogurt?
2. I read that diabetics and pre-diabetics can eat sour dough bread because it doesn't produce an increase in blood sugar to the same extent other bread does -- does anyone know about this?
2. I read that diabetics and pre-diabetics can eat sour dough bread because it doesn't produce an increase in blood sugar to the same extent other bread does -- does anyone know about this?
10
The Samuel Fromartz statement that the idea of very old starters is bunk is just that—bunk. He’s right about most starters, but not about the San Francisco sourdough starter—and probably some others that I have not used.
The genuine San Francisco culture, composed of the wild yeast, Candida milleri and the lactobacillus L. sanfranciscensis, is a truly symbiotic combination which readily snubs friendly overtures from other wild yeasts and lactobacilli.
The San Francisco sourdough starter I have baked with and marketed (www.SourdoughBreads.com and www.amazon.com/dp/B00A0K2VC0) for the past 14 years has not changed one iota, even though I live in Texas.
There is a nutrient found in wheat flour called maltose. Candida milleri yeast is unable to use maltose. Funniest thing—the lactobacillus L. sanfranciscensis actually needs maltose in its diet—it can't live without it. So the wild yeast and its partner lactobacillus don't compete for nutrients when they're hanging out in a nutritious flour and water mixture--they actually help each other thrive. In addition, L. sanfranciscensis produces an antibiotic that actually protects the culture from contamination.
Both also grow well in an acid environment--like a sourdough culture. But an acid environment actually inhibits the growth of most other yeasts and bacteria.
The San Francisco sourdough starter can and does keep itself pure anywhere in the world.
The genuine San Francisco culture, composed of the wild yeast, Candida milleri and the lactobacillus L. sanfranciscensis, is a truly symbiotic combination which readily snubs friendly overtures from other wild yeasts and lactobacilli.
The San Francisco sourdough starter I have baked with and marketed (www.SourdoughBreads.com and www.amazon.com/dp/B00A0K2VC0) for the past 14 years has not changed one iota, even though I live in Texas.
There is a nutrient found in wheat flour called maltose. Candida milleri yeast is unable to use maltose. Funniest thing—the lactobacillus L. sanfranciscensis actually needs maltose in its diet—it can't live without it. So the wild yeast and its partner lactobacillus don't compete for nutrients when they're hanging out in a nutritious flour and water mixture--they actually help each other thrive. In addition, L. sanfranciscensis produces an antibiotic that actually protects the culture from contamination.
Both also grow well in an acid environment--like a sourdough culture. But an acid environment actually inhibits the growth of most other yeasts and bacteria.
The San Francisco sourdough starter can and does keep itself pure anywhere in the world.
8
I see folks adding grapes or other foods to their starter. What options are there, how much should you use, and does it affect the taste? I'm newer to bread-baking, only been doing it since Ruth Reichl's latest book with her adaptation of Jim Lahey's no-knead bread, and I'm confident enough now to start experimenting. Any successful experiments you can share?
www.kathryndlewis.com
www.kathryndlewis.com
6
Sourdough? My, what a revelation! How many hundreds of recipes do you want? Just ask any German bakery that has been using it for centuries!
3
After working for sometime to reproduce the famous Poilane miche, I discovered that much of the flavour from sourdough doesn't come from the starter, it comes from the longer rise times, often retarded by refrigeration. Clearly this has been obvious to master bakers for years - Peter Reinhardt recommends this approach even with commercial yeast - and so it turns out, that with a little patience, even regular yeast can be used to make a wonderfully complex, flavourful bread, without having to bother with maintaining a starter. You cannot get the sour flavour without the bacteria-containing sourdough starter, but this varies greatly anyway depending on how you grow and maintain your starer. Consequently I've become more ambivalent about sourdough. In a way it's become a symbol of how artisanal the bread is, which hardly applies when you're home baking, and so I find myself using it much less often these days.
3
Just use a little apple cider vinegar to proof your yeast instead of a spoonful of sugar. Gives that tang you want.
4
I learned from Ed Wood in Saudi in 1984; his book is my bible! So nice to hear it is making a comeback! Having some probs here in BC...it is wet and cold right now, so that, perhaps, is the problem; not getting a good rise, but working on it. Abso nothing like it! :)
5
Also known as Herman. You are not passing on a sourdough starter, you are passing a Herman.
5
Does anyone have experience with adding yeast from a wild fermentation beer? They all have wild yeast and lacto, but I don't know what pedio would add to the party. This would give me an excuse to open a bottle of Cantillon or Jolly Pumpkin. thanks
2
Hi Tim,
I was wondering the same thing today. I did some some searching and all I could come up with was a method for creating the starter from the dregs of a wild fermented beer. I plan on trying it myself tonight and seeing how it goes with something from Crooked Stave. I'll post the link to the beer dreg starter below.
http://fonduevoodoo.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-to-make-your-own-sourdough-...
I was wondering the same thing today. I did some some searching and all I could come up with was a method for creating the starter from the dregs of a wild fermented beer. I plan on trying it myself tonight and seeing how it goes with something from Crooked Stave. I'll post the link to the beer dreg starter below.
http://fonduevoodoo.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-to-make-your-own-sourdough-...
2
There's a group in Maryland called Friends of Carl that keeps the famous 1847 Oregon Trail sourdough discovered by prospector Carl Griffith. It's free (except for postage) for the asking. It's a great culture. It can be found online at carlsfriends.net .
9
microwave and bread.
Two items that never go together. Except, I've found in the cold Michigan winter it is hard to keep whole wheat sourdough warm enough for a good rise. After mixing my sourdough, I put the covered bowl in the micro for 30 seconds. Then cover it with a kitchen towel. The dough is heated from the inside and stays warm longer. After the long rise, 10 to 24 hours, I punch it down in the same bowl, sometimes adding a little flour if it is sticky, Then micro it again for 30 seconds. An hour later it is risen and rounded. I urge it with a spatula onto a greased or hot griddle doing a 270 degree flop.
I am getting 10 to 20% more air in the loaf.
Two items that never go together. Except, I've found in the cold Michigan winter it is hard to keep whole wheat sourdough warm enough for a good rise. After mixing my sourdough, I put the covered bowl in the micro for 30 seconds. Then cover it with a kitchen towel. The dough is heated from the inside and stays warm longer. After the long rise, 10 to 24 hours, I punch it down in the same bowl, sometimes adding a little flour if it is sticky, Then micro it again for 30 seconds. An hour later it is risen and rounded. I urge it with a spatula onto a greased or hot griddle doing a 270 degree flop.
I am getting 10 to 20% more air in the loaf.
7
I've no intention of microwaving my bread dough, however, I have discovered that my built-in microwave serves as a convenient proofing drawer when I turn on the small overhead stove light that's built into it's underside. That little light does a surprisingly good job of warming up the interior of the microwave.
4
I used to rise bread dough by placing it over the pilot light that was between the two burners on an older gas stove (four burners, two pilot lights), and that would rise it perfectly. Alas, modern stoves do not have these pilot lights, which makes the stoves safer, I guess. I have tried heating the oven to 200 degrees, shutting it off, then placing the dough in the oven to rise, but this method is not very effective. I will try your microwave method next time I make dough.
1
My newer oven — and it’s not a fancy one — has a built-in funnel of sorts from the oven to the range in the middle of the left rear burner. You can’t see it unless you prop the range up, as you would to clean it. That spot is quite toasty and that’s where I proof my dough, while pre-heating the oven for baking.
1
This was a fun and informative treatise on sour dough which I very much enjoyed. A small note on the Pizza Recipe for those so inclined. As any baker will tell you not all flour is the same. This waffle recipe calls for All-Purpose Flour. The pizza recipe as printed is correct and calls for "00" flour.which is not referenced in the article. 00 flour is made from soft (low protein) Italian wheat and is available on-line and in your local Italian Market. It is imported from Naples. If you follow the recipe but use all purpose flour you will get a pretty good pizza. Use 00 and you will get that crackly crusty bottom and perfectly wonderful crumb that you remember from your trip to Italy.The difference is night and day.
10
I am not a purist. I love bread, and I dislike more work than is necessary, and I am not especially patient.
And I figured out how to reproduce the taste and texture of that Jewish cornbread I grew up with, in a universe far, far away, and I gladly share my glorious secret with the world.
I use good old ordinary yeast, and I use a little apple cider vinegar to proof it with instead of a spoonful of sugar, and I make a wet sloppy dough, and let it rise for a few hours, and plop it into a ceramic casserole dish (I learned the hard way NOT to put a lid on it), and lo--a crusty, fragrant, chewy loaf of bread that brings joy to my heart and makes the best toasted cheese sandwiches like, ever. No rye flour; maybe those who grew up, as I did, in NY of yesteryear might insist it doesn't taste just like that Jewish cornbread.
Close enough for me. The kitchen smells great and my heart is comforted, and I can make it any old time I like.
And I figured out how to reproduce the taste and texture of that Jewish cornbread I grew up with, in a universe far, far away, and I gladly share my glorious secret with the world.
I use good old ordinary yeast, and I use a little apple cider vinegar to proof it with instead of a spoonful of sugar, and I make a wet sloppy dough, and let it rise for a few hours, and plop it into a ceramic casserole dish (I learned the hard way NOT to put a lid on it), and lo--a crusty, fragrant, chewy loaf of bread that brings joy to my heart and makes the best toasted cheese sandwiches like, ever. No rye flour; maybe those who grew up, as I did, in NY of yesteryear might insist it doesn't taste just like that Jewish cornbread.
Close enough for me. The kitchen smells great and my heart is comforted, and I can make it any old time I like.
6
I had a bakery in the 80's in Freedom, Maine and I made sourdough bread. My organic wheat came from a Belfast, Maine farmer and also from an organic wheat farmer in Montana. Dave Kennedy, the local farmer, stone ground all the wheat. I wanted a clean product from field to table. The starter was wheat flour and water. I wanted the organisms to also be local. It took awhile for the starter to mature because I didn't know any techniques to speed the process, but once it did, the bread was the best tasting bread I ever ate and the ingredients were whole wheat flour, water and salt. We made 150 to 200 plus loaves two baking days a week. It was great fun, an adventure, and produced good bread almost as local as a baker could get. Freedom Baker.
19
When adding water to your starter you must not use New York City tap water. I brought starter to NYC in the early 80s when I moved here and it died. In Virginia I used well water. I add spring water to my new starter which is twenty years old and make waffles to die for, not literally.
4
good recommendation, i use either filtered water or bottled water, the chemicals will kill it dead
1
I have a starter alive and well on the counter for which I use NYC water. No problem whatsoever.
11
I use a tablespoon of my sourdough starter to goose the fermentation of the ground rice and lentil batter used to make Indian dosas, idlis and appams ("hoppers").
7
Her name is Lucille. She lives on the countertop. She gets breakfast and dinner, 12 hours apart, at 125% hydration (keep about 7 grams, add 43g h2o & 34g white flour, with a pinch of rye). Bread is baked in covered clay pots so that they self-steam and the result is fantastic!
The discard is kept in a quart-size mason jar in frig. When it gets full I dump it in a bucket, add water, swill it around and pour it on the compost pile. Everybody plays, everybody wins.
The discard is kept in a quart-size mason jar in frig. When it gets full I dump it in a bucket, add water, swill it around and pour it on the compost pile. Everybody plays, everybody wins.
17
I love baking breads and a number of years ago created my own starter from flour, water and grapes. I don't have it any more since I don't bake that frequently and wasn't sure if it was still alive. I would like to know how often one needs to feed the sourdough while it is resting in the fridge. Also, do you need to take a cup out whether you are using it or not when your are feeding it. Really precise direction on the care and feeding of the stater wuld be appreciated.
6
You should feed your refrigerated starter once a week. Bring it out, let it revive on the counter, and when it's risen and starting to fall back again, feed it however you normally would. Typically the ratio is equal parts starter, water (or whey) and flour, and the most accurate way to do that is with a scale if you have one. You don't have to discard a cup of starter but think about how much starter you'll end up with if you're adding two cups each week and never throwing out or using any.
2
I was a commercial fisherman in Alaska. Toughest job I ever did in my life. Sometimes we'd work four days straight without sleep long-lining for halibut or seining for salmon. At times, it was miserable grey work on a freezing cold ocean. The one thing that kept us going was the food. Our cook had an 80 year old sour dough yeast that he got from his grandmother. He would wield it like a sword. Making sour dough pancakes, bread, cake, muffins. You name it, he would make it, all in an effort to keep us happy and warm while we plied the trade. Best food I ever ate.
34
I had a sourdough starter for years and then one day I looked at it, and it was dead. A sad day for me.
5
Last night I saw a commenter mention sourdough bread being made in the Little House on the Prairie books. I remembered that, too, and as the proud owner of a copy of "The Little House Cookbook" by Barbara M. Walker, I pulled it down tonight to see if there was a recipe. Indeed there is.
The sourdough starter was mentioned in "By the Shores of Silver Lake" when Mrs. Boast asked Ma and Laura how to make "sour dough". Ma and Laura told her they used water and flour in a jar, covered with a cloth and and set in it in a warm place "letting it stand till it sours". (This is just a theory, but I'm guessing pineapple juice wasn't stocked at the closest general store in South Dakota in 1880!) Laura told Mrs. Boast to always "leave a little" when she used the starter.
Ma and Laura used the starter to make sour dough biscuits, with starter, flour, salt, and baking soda; they cooked the biscuits in (meat) drippings in a stove-top skillet.
The sourdough starter was mentioned in "By the Shores of Silver Lake" when Mrs. Boast asked Ma and Laura how to make "sour dough". Ma and Laura told her they used water and flour in a jar, covered with a cloth and and set in it in a warm place "letting it stand till it sours". (This is just a theory, but I'm guessing pineapple juice wasn't stocked at the closest general store in South Dakota in 1880!) Laura told Mrs. Boast to always "leave a little" when she used the starter.
Ma and Laura used the starter to make sour dough biscuits, with starter, flour, salt, and baking soda; they cooked the biscuits in (meat) drippings in a stove-top skillet.
15
My starter came from a friend who did a stint in Alaska on a fishing boat and brought it back east with him and shared it with me. He promised it had great antiquity and that was forty years ago. I have kept it ever since, salvaged it from the backyard compost heap once or twice when visitors who did the dishes didn't understand and still it thrives. It is very lively when you knead it. I mean it seems to want to crawl up your arm. My son says the force is strong with this one. It keeps trying to phone home. We call it Mork.
24
If anyone needs some ideas for baking with sourdough, I've really enjoyed the book Sourdough by Sarah Owens. It is a wonderul story about how anyone can start baking with fermented grains and has a ton of great sourdough recipes.
4
In actual baking, recipes for both the initial starter and levain seem to give too much volume, so that lots must be discarded. Why? For example, all instructions say discard much of a starter before adding new flour and water. Too, in the Forkish book, Ken instructs to make a levain that is far more than is needed for the final dough. (I just threw out 600 grams of freshly fermented levain.) So, (1) why the consistent excess and (2) What else can I do with the extra levain/starter, other than throwing it in the trash?
1
The discard is required for a couple of reasons. First and foremost, if you don't rid yourself of some of the starter when you feed it with more flour and water, it will grow like Topsy, and soon become unmanageable. Second, the discard helps in the matter of science, keeping the starter well balanced and thriving. Some don't like throwing away good starter. I'm one of them. Make waffle batter out of it. Make pizza dough. Make bread. Recipes for all three are attached to the article. Get baking!
8
I agree - the waste of discarding so much didn't sit right with me, but now that I keep my starter in the fridge I no longer need to discard any. Those frugal pioneers had it right.
3
I love Forkish's book and use it regularly. I too was not happy about the waste, and make only half of the levain to maintain the starter and in any given recipe. That works out well for me. The occasional excess I freeze and use it to make waffles or pizza. The waffles are fantastic, BTW, and definitely worth a try, if you haven't already!
1
I've never tried making a starter from scratch, but I highly recommend you check out http://carlsfriends.net/ as a source of pedigreed starter. This starter goes back to the gold rush and has a great story behind it.
2
Not to rain on anybody's parade, or sourdough starter, but the age of the starter is surprisingly irrelevant, at least according to Ken Forkish of Ken's Bakery in Portland Oregon. He should know, since many of his breads are pure "levain" affairs, meaning they are leavened only with starters. He points out that the only organisms that survive in your starter are the ones that are suitable for the environment you create. So whether the starter comes from 1848, the Mayflower, or the juice and flour you started last week, by the time you feed it a few times and keep it in your environment, it becomes a personalized starter that's ageless. And if it dies from neglect, and you start it again in the same environment with the same ingredients, it will again morph into a more or less identical starter. The romance of the ancient and storied starter is attractive . . . but lacks substance when it comes to reality.
10
Sam, I'm going to make traditional Italian Easter bread this weekend. It has eggs and sugar and citrus zest in it and is glazed with honey, a family recipe. Would it be a good starter to use for a bread like that or should I stick to traditional yeast?
2
Should work. Might be a little weird. I think sourdough's a varsity-level baking event. For a sweet Easter bread, I might downshift into commercial yeast, at least if it was the first time I was making the recipe.
1
I sort of free-wheeled it last Easter with my sourdough hot cross buns, and they were excellent--I just added the richer ingredients to my basic dough mixture until it felt right, let it rise, and shaped my buns. Then I let them rise as usual and baked them. They were the best.
3
Thank you. I think I'll stick with the commercial yeast but maybe will experiment next year. (And will definitely use a starter for some other recipes soon.)
2
I've been in sourdough for years
I work on the theory that you can't use too much starter.
If I use 4 cups of starter I'll add I cup water and then keep adding flour until the dough is " right".
I work on the idea that " every loaf is an adventure"
You can get fennel seeds and caraway seeds on line cheaper than in store.
Couple cups of rye can put you in heaven
I work on the theory that you can't use too much starter.
If I use 4 cups of starter I'll add I cup water and then keep adding flour until the dough is " right".
I work on the idea that " every loaf is an adventure"
You can get fennel seeds and caraway seeds on line cheaper than in store.
Couple cups of rye can put you in heaven
4
In Germany and Luxembourg we know this as "Hermann" and it is a sweet cake, not a bread. If you get a "Hermann" starter from a friend, you'll have to feed it and then divide it into 4 equal parts. Keep one for yourself and pass 3 of them on, together with instructions, just like a chain letter. It was a real hype in the 90's.
2
You're killing me, NYTimes, you're killing this sad Celiac sufferer. And I mean sufferer in all incarnations of the word. I'm readin' and cryin' into my keyboard.
6
Don't weep, Surviving! The Gluten-Free Girl is here to help! https://glutenfreegirl.com/2015/08/gluten-free-sourdough-bread/
5
Sam Sifton - you're a Granter of all (Bread) Wishes - thanks for sharing!
2
Surviving - Many people with celiac are able to eat sourdough as the fermentation process alters the chemistry of the grain. Google sourdough and celiac together and see what comes up!
7
I am surprised that no one has suggested this a a source for a starter:
http://carlsfriends.net/
They will send you a starter apparently based on one from 1847 that was used on the Oregon Trail. It's free and all you need to do is send them a stamp
http://carlsfriends.net/
They will send you a starter apparently based on one from 1847 that was used on the Oregon Trail. It's free and all you need to do is send them a stamp
2
I named my starter "The Beast" when I began baking with it four years ago, even though I don't think of it as a single creature–more like a collective of very active, and very short-lived pets with a very high turnover in membership. Actually, it's closer to animal husbandry than caring for a pet.
One thing I've learned about "The Beast" is how forgiving and flexible it is. If I'm not going to bake, or can't feed it, into the refrigerator it goes. If I'm baking several times in the week, it stays on the counter and gets fed once or sometimes twice a day. if I want a really sharp tasting bread, I feed it with rye instead of all purpose, feed twice or three times a day, and keep it a little warmer than usual. It's incredibly responsive to changes like this, and sometimes I'll keep one container of the milder stuff and one of the stronger going.
I learned about sourdough from King Arthur. Before I found them, it was lurid colors, and bad smells in the starter jar and hockey pucks in the oven.
One thing I've learned about "The Beast" is how forgiving and flexible it is. If I'm not going to bake, or can't feed it, into the refrigerator it goes. If I'm baking several times in the week, it stays on the counter and gets fed once or sometimes twice a day. if I want a really sharp tasting bread, I feed it with rye instead of all purpose, feed twice or three times a day, and keep it a little warmer than usual. It's incredibly responsive to changes like this, and sometimes I'll keep one container of the milder stuff and one of the stronger going.
I learned about sourdough from King Arthur. Before I found them, it was lurid colors, and bad smells in the starter jar and hockey pucks in the oven.
5
I've been using a sourdough starter for about 8 years now. It holds well in the fridge for several months without feeding. Might take a couple of days to get back to full strength but not a problem. I have also backed myself up with some dehydrated starter just in case... Take a bit of happy starter and spread thinly on a piece of parchment paper. Leave out to air dry (I use a rack to raise it off the table). In 1-3 days (depending on temperature, thickness and humidity) it will be completely dry. Take it off the paper and crumble. Store in an airtight container forever. To rehydrate, mix with a couple of tablespoons of water and allow to dissolve. Then add a bit of flour and water and begin the feeding cycles. It will take a couple of days to restore to full strength.
10
One trick I've learned (again from Ken Forkish) is that you can cover your (lively, well-fed) starter with about 1/2 inch (one joint on your finger) of water, and then it does not need to be fed for anywhere from a week to two months (two months is asking for trouble, but these starters go into hibernation and are remarkably resilient.) To bring them back to life, just feed them for a couple of days and bake on the third day. The article does not mention that typically feeding the starter means taking a small portion of it and adding flour and water in whatever proportions are called for (there's lots of variation here . . .) Most first-time starter/levain users can't understand why you compost or toss a large proportion of your stored starter each time. Answer: the "sour" elements (acetic acid) become too concentrated, and the "sweet" elements (lactic acid) are depleted. The more acetic the starter is, the more it becomes sour, and thus sourdough. You can make breads from starters that cover the range from a little tangy to almost overwhelmingly "sour". Feeding the starter and using it at the right level of aliveness is the key to controlling this.
6
I've read several blogs and articles in preparation for baking my first sourdough bread and have not yet found an explanation as to why we are supposed to toss out a large amount of starter until your post. Thanks so much for explaining this!
5
Can someone point me in the right direction for a recipe for a French Baguette; a nice chewy true French baguette - not one of those air-filled-crumble-into-bits things. Thanks!
1
Julia Child's Mastering the Art of French Cooking.
1
There's a great recipe for baguettes from America's Test Kitchen - it comes out perfectly for me every time, but I follow the instructions to a letter. It's very easy to do if you have all the ingredients and supplies. Try this link - https://www.kcet.org/food/weekend-recipe-baguettes
3
Here's a link to the America's Test Kitchen video for making baguettes, too - hope it works as well for you as it does for me.
https://www.americastestkitchen.com/episode/472-baguettes-at-home
https://www.americastestkitchen.com/episode/472-baguettes-at-home
2
Learned from Julia Childe (2nd vol.) and have made bread for years. Why can't you give recipes in tablespoons as well as by weight? (I do have a scale). Its' simpler. Julia does. rwm
Scale, of course, is more precise, because it compensates for the difference in densities of flour and other ingredients. So it produces more consistent results, even if it is a bit harder to measure everything out.
3
You can get free starter that dates back to 1847:
http://carlsfriends.net
http://carlsfriends.net
1
Two additional facts seem to be missing from this article: how frequently do you recommend that one feeds the sourdough (stored in the refrigerator or on the counter-top); and what color should one prefer the sourdough to be, particularly what color should it NOT be?
My answers: frequency - King Arthur says weekly, but I say whenever I get around to it, even months in between; colors - light to dark beige, even dark brown are ok (these can be nursed back to a preferable, lighter shade), but any other color of sourdough, particularly red, means the deliciously unnamed resident must be evicted - without tasting. (It's red for a reason: it definitely means stop and don't go any further.)
As this article suggests, many different liquids and flours can be combined to prompt the start of sourdough, but as this article fails to suggest, sometimes the result can be toxic.
My answers: frequency - King Arthur says weekly, but I say whenever I get around to it, even months in between; colors - light to dark beige, even dark brown are ok (these can be nursed back to a preferable, lighter shade), but any other color of sourdough, particularly red, means the deliciously unnamed resident must be evicted - without tasting. (It's red for a reason: it definitely means stop and don't go any further.)
As this article suggests, many different liquids and flours can be combined to prompt the start of sourdough, but as this article fails to suggest, sometimes the result can be toxic.
7
if it develops a rank smell it is time to toss it, an unpleasant bacteria has taken over the starter
3
Per my previous comment, if starter is covered with a layer of water, it lasts up to several months and is cut off from further oxygen and thus hibernates. As mentioned, it can be nursed back to full existence, usually with two days' worth of feeding. Any container in a refrigerator should be fully covered. And when you go to dig out a portion of the starter to regenerate, scrape off the darker surface stuff and go for the lighter-colored layers that lie below. This whole storage procedure frees you from slavery to your little pet.
2
the best recipe I have found for sourdough is Daniel Leaders from Bread Alone. Four and water with a couple of grains of instant yeast fed for 3 days. I have killed a couple of these starters over the years, but once its established they give great results and wonderful bread. I have used this since the early 90's for weekly bread.
2
What adjustments need be made at high elevation ? Living at 9,000 feet in Colorado Rockies presents innumerable challenges due to lower atmospheric pressure and reduced humidity (often single digit) & requires many modifications when baking; does the same hold true for the starter ?
4
I'd like to know the answer to this too. Does anyone know? I've tried to make bread (regular bread) and it was disastrous, despite all the high altitude adjustments.
Nancy in CO. (9,200 ft)
Nancy in CO. (9,200 ft)
1
Had to stop mid-read to pull a load of no-knead sourdough from the oven. I've been making Jim Leahy's bread since the recipe was first published in the NYT 2006(?). A few years ago I began adding sourdough starter to it from a batch I'd bought from KAF. When I foolishly committed to a low carb diet last year, the starter, neglected, died. This past fall I followed the KAF instructions for DIY sourdough starter. The results have been exemplary! The starter is robust and tasty and imparts a perfect spongy texture to my breads. I still use a 1/4 tsp of instant yeast along with 60g of starter in the recipe. We are in love with this bread. Last week I made pancakes and pizza dough too! All delicious.
5
When I visit friends out of state, and I ask "Can I bring something from California?", number one, far and away, is sourdough bread. Since 9/11 it's gotten iffy to bring the starter. TSA agents don't understand what it is and, "Smell it, it smells like bread!" gets you diverted to the bomb chemical test line.
Some of the worst sourdough I've ever tasted came from the world renown Poilâne Bakery in Paris; which specializes in it. I prefer what we make locally here in San Francisco, so I guess it's a matter of taste. There is even variation from bakery to bakery within the 10 mile radius of SF.
Essentially you are at the mercy of whatever "yeasty-beasties" thrive in your neighborhood. You can buy a culture from somewhere else, but eventually it
"turns local". Taking a page from beer loving home brewers you can forestall this by creating a "brew house" (bread house?) environment. Yeah...no.
Some of the worst sourdough I've ever tasted came from the world renown Poilâne Bakery in Paris; which specializes in it. I prefer what we make locally here in San Francisco, so I guess it's a matter of taste. There is even variation from bakery to bakery within the 10 mile radius of SF.
Essentially you are at the mercy of whatever "yeasty-beasties" thrive in your neighborhood. You can buy a culture from somewhere else, but eventually it
"turns local". Taking a page from beer loving home brewers you can forestall this by creating a "brew house" (bread house?) environment. Yeah...no.
4
I have the great good fortune to be married to the author of "Wild Bread - Handbaked sourdough breads in your own kitchen." I have been spoiled by the taste and texture of home-made bread -- not to mention the aroma. Recently, while traveling, we were forced to buy some packaged bread at a grocery store. Even though the bread was labeled "whole wheat," I could not believe how limp and flavorless the bread was. It reminded me of eating a piece of felt or thin slice of foam rubber. Once you have gotten used to eating home-made bread, you will never want to go back to store-bought.
11
"Wild Bread" is what lead me into sourdough baking 8 years ago. It is a wonderful primer, many thanks to your spouse for writing it.
6
I've been baking my own bread for 25 yrs now, and have used a sourdough for a while (made with grapes)
Yes, the taste is vry nice, but the starter took over my life to the point that I thought to be neurotically snobbish. I mean to ask your neighbors to water your plants while on vacation is one thing, but to trust them with your precious starter and telephoning them every day is a notch to much.
And I can honestly say that my commercial yeast bread is a delight, every single day.
Yes, the taste is vry nice, but the starter took over my life to the point that I thought to be neurotically snobbish. I mean to ask your neighbors to water your plants while on vacation is one thing, but to trust them with your precious starter and telephoning them every day is a notch to much.
And I can honestly say that my commercial yeast bread is a delight, every single day.
2
I have had two sourdough starter pets: one lasted for about 7 years, and my current one just celebrated its 4th birthday. It's still very active, but seems to have lost some of its sourdough tang. It's a wonderful little obsession.
4
3/4 cup of starter in your bread seems like a lot. I get excellent results using only about 1/4 of my starter.
1
Another Question: I've tried Mr. Leahy's No Knead Bread recipe and what I get is a somewhat Flat cake, with a side edge ~ 1- 1 1/2 inches high with a center ~ 1/2 inch higher. Is this correct? The crust is also very hard and crunchy, not crisp and light. I've tried letting it rise longer , but it still comes out Flat. I use an enameled cast iron pot ~ 8.5" in Dia. My dough rises during setting, but the dough I put into the pot to bake never seems to rise much, if at all during the baking process. I've used King Arthur's Bread flour, bottled water, plastic or wooden utensils ,etc; but still get a Flat loaf! Help!
3
I make it almost every single week now, and it rises HIGH! Last night's is the largest and highest loaf I have ever made. I use King Arthur's organic bread, and their organic whole wheat. It always amazes me how easy and delicious this bread is! I wish I could help you get as great of results as I get! I let it sit about 18 hours, punch and shape for 15 minutes, then dump rather unceremoniously into the hot pot. I try other breads from time to time but always come back to this one, as it tastes like sourdough but without the hassle of keeping a starter.
1
With serial apologies in advance to REO Speedwagon, The Eagles and Readers Like You, I forwarded this article under the header "Got It from a Woman Who/Got It from a Woman Who/Got It from Another Back in '48", with the teaser "Topping the list today of the Most E-Mailed articles at The New York Times (topping the list yesterday was a cracker of an article on a common bird, and one which deserves to win the 2016 Parrot Surprise) an inspiring how-to of great interest to you when, forced to eat your lunch all by yourself, you wish to sing a vic'try song in the way of a sandwich made from superlative homemade bread of the sort that, left out on the counter after the family breakfast, is all but guaranteed to be already gone well before lunchtime."
1
" Charles" came to me and spawned my second starter that was fed Rye flour. " Ronny Rye " was Chucks son, but tasted different. Alas, they got pushed to the rear of the fridge and starved. I should have been hung by a rope, but no one found out. ;)
3
I have an amazing starter from the 'The Cheese Board Collective' in Berkeley, CA. which has been sitting in our refrigerator unused for over 4 years.
Is there any hope for it? If there is what can I do? Thanks!
Is there any hope for it? If there is what can I do? Thanks!
1
If unfed during these four years, say an apology and start anew.
3
I used Ed Woods' "washing" technique and resurrected a starter that was dormant (exiled for non-cooperation) in the refrigerator for over a year and now we are working well together. Get his book for washing and other good ideas and give it a try.
2
Are we really talking sourdough here? I've done this for years, using crushed organic grapes (unwashed) to provide the yeast in the original culture, whom I named "Vito." By keeping Vito in the refrigerator, I've kept him "sweet" and not created the sourness that I dislike in bread.
2
The way I understand it, if you skipped the feeding a bit while raising the starter, the yeast would take a nap, and the lactobacilli would become more dominant, creating the signature sour taste.
Twice I tried to make the sourdough rye starter from the book "Scandinavian Baking". It calls for buttermilk. The book warns it can turn moldy if it's too cold. I watched the temperature very carefully but two tries and moldy every time. (I was in Lake Placid NY then). Would have loved a more exact recipe for starter in this article as I'm now timid about even trying again. Any suggestions appreciated.
4
I've been making bread at home for about 10 years and have been honing my sourdough skills for the last 5. It's amazing how therapeutic bread baking can be.
As a busy dad with small children at home, I find solace in the process of feeding the starter, prepping the dough, and paying attention to the whole procedure.
As a busy dad with small children at home, I find solace in the process of feeding the starter, prepping the dough, and paying attention to the whole procedure.
9
I Use a plain old iron Dutch oven--not enameled--with excellent results.
3
For the celiacs out there - I am wondering about a gluten-free starter. Is there a preferred gluten-free flour that could be used? Would the method change? Years ago, when I was doing more baking, I attempted with rice flour and then with teff flour and both times did not really yield good results.
Check the King Arthur flour website - they have some hints for starting and maintaining a GF starter.
Best GF sourdough recipe and techniques I've found are from Scandanavia, a charming website run by a young architecture student who makes dynamite Gluten Free breads without using any of those awful gums. Here are two really useful sites with recipes that actually work. (Have not found glutenfreegirl's particularly successful.)
http://www.bakingmagique.com/2014/09/gluten-free-sourdough-bread/
and
http://theworldofglutenfreebread.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/baking-gluten-fr...
bon appetit!
http://www.bakingmagique.com/2014/09/gluten-free-sourdough-bread/
and
http://theworldofglutenfreebread.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/baking-gluten-fr...
bon appetit!
Well timed article, at least for me. I've been brewing beer for about 8 year. Making Kimchi for two. Sourdough bread was the next step and i started about two weeks ago. I've been feeding the starter with a spoonful of wheat/white flour everyday and water as needed. I don't think precision matters at all. Can't imagine the microbes being that picky. This morning, the dough smelled divine. Pancakes are in order this weekend and tartine the next.
3
I strongly dislike the taste of sourdough and would never make it or buy it. I wouldn't quite call it "nasty," but close.
Many breads made with sourdough starter do not taste sour t all - the Tartine recipe yields a lovely country loaf without any discernible sour taste if you use the minimum timings for rise.
1
I tried a sourdough starter once and the jar exploded. I have been afraid to try again. What did I do wrong, any suggestions?
Keep the lid slightly ajar (don't close it tightly :)
2
When is a door not a door? When it is ajar ...
1
Oh this is good info for me. I just started experimenting with starter a couple weeks ago and one of my jars was bulging firmly in the lid and made a nice pop when I twisted it. I wouldn't have guessed it could shatter a jar so I will be more careful to leave a gap in the lid.
2
My starter is from Alaska. "It doesn't have the papers, but it really did come from San Francisco during the Gold Rush." Seriously, do some sourdough so actually have "papers?"
Anyway, mine is tangy flavored from Nebraska, New York City, and now from the Catskills. Faithful, it has survived freezing and long forgotten periods in the refrigerator. Everyone loves my sourdough baguettes...
However, recently, we learned that my husband has a wheat sensitivity and now we know why he would be so "out of it" after our parties featuring my baguettes.
I've frozen some of the starter and infrequently make baguettes and English muffins, all as gifts, and yes, I eat some myself, but only now and then.
Anyway, mine is tangy flavored from Nebraska, New York City, and now from the Catskills. Faithful, it has survived freezing and long forgotten periods in the refrigerator. Everyone loves my sourdough baguettes...
However, recently, we learned that my husband has a wheat sensitivity and now we know why he would be so "out of it" after our parties featuring my baguettes.
I've frozen some of the starter and infrequently make baguettes and English muffins, all as gifts, and yes, I eat some myself, but only now and then.
3
A simple recipe for creating you own starter (with apple skins) can be found in William Alexander's wonderful book about his year of learning to bake, "52 Loaves". I have been using it for years.
5
I made a starter a few years ago, which worked wonderfully and made delicious bread. Unfortunately, it caused me bad nausea. I tried again - same problem. Several other people ate the same bread with no problem. I assume that I have an intolerance to the local strain of yeast that it picked up. Any thoughts on that?
Frankly, the view is not worth the climb.
1
Beware sending starter through the mail. I received a sample from a friend in Calif. Which leaked in shipment. The post office called the Haz-met people who,concluded it was anthrax and shut down the post office. I was called in and ended the standoff by tasting the starter , causing great alarm. I am still laughing. , the Postmaster hates me.
23
EXCELLENT STORY!!
3
LOL! I recently dried some out and sent it to a friend. You just spread it on a piece of parchment paper on a cookie sheet and let it dry out.
1
Now THAT is an awesome story.
3
"You can speed the process with grapes...." Yes this is a great way to make a starter. The white on the surface of the grape , best seen on reds, is I believe yeast and why all you have to do is mash the grapes and let the yeast do its thing. This may have been covered in the referenced video. Result is of course alcohol and the dreaded, in this case vital, carbon dioxide. Simple process and easy to do.
2
Let's stop using "bread flour" for these recipes. One does not "need" this high protein flour to make great sourdough bread. The methods for developing this type of flour are unsustainable. All purpose flour works just fine or better yet try adding a portion of whole wheat flour to the recipe.
What? Bread flour is simply milled from a higher protein variety of wheat. If you happen to have any citations for what you say about "the methods for developing this type of flour are unsustainable" please do share them with us.
2
not true, it simply uses more winter wheat instead of spring wheat in the mix. However I like to use a slightly lower protein flour with a little more ash for my hearth breads, it is a little closer to french flours. My personal favorite is Alta Artisan unbleached flour from Honeyville Grain company, the also give $4.99 shipping for a 50 lb bag
2
Is it possible to make a gluten-free sourdough culture? If so, what do you recommend for the flour (i.e., rice, or oats, or tapioca, or sweet potato flour, etc.)?
1
I must live in a particularly yeasty house, it is 170 years old so maybe that has something to do with it. My first sourdough starter was started in a quart Mason jar with half a cup of flour to a half a cup of well water and covered with cheese cloth. The next morning it had bubbled up and out of the jar and was all over the counter!
The second try was in a larger container but it turned orange in just a few days and smelled like the dumpsters behind a bakery.
I thought myself a particularly bad gardener, having killed air plants before but this trying to cultivate yeast cinched it LOL.
The second try was in a larger container but it turned orange in just a few days and smelled like the dumpsters behind a bakery.
I thought myself a particularly bad gardener, having killed air plants before but this trying to cultivate yeast cinched it LOL.
7
I made my own stated using the KAF method, and it has now lasted, with weekly feedings, well over two years. I made sourdough bread every week and my daughter and I enjoy it every day. I slice it after it cools and freeze it, and it keeps great through the rest of the week. I have probably bought no more than one loaf of store-bought bread in the last two years!
4
Question: Re: Sourdough Starter Recipe- are the flour measurements in ounces Weight or Volume? Weight would be hard to measure, so if so, can translate weight to volume, so could use available measuring cups.
1
Unless specified I'm sure the measurements are in volume. Weight is easy-peasy to measure with a small kitchen scale, better with a tare function. I got one for under $20 and use it all the time.
1
I have been baking sourdough for years. My son gave me a new starter for Christmas, a descendant of the starter that George Guerne brought to northern California in the 1860s, which would make it more than 150 years old! I recently made some delicious loaves using it and a recipe from Ken Forkish. I love the connection to history that starters offer, even if it is just to the previous baked goods from one's own kitchen.
5
Two thoughts: once in a hurry I lost my mind and forgot to save out some of my dough. No problem, when I did a plain flour and water restart, the yeasts in my kitchen colonized the mixture quickly. Second: long traditional rising/refigeration of loaves prior to baking makes the loaves/pizza, etc., much more digestible for gluten-sensitive people (not celiacs). No more head aches and stomach aches after eating!
1
I'm wondering if "Tess" might the Tess I knew back in San Francisco in the late 60's. She was with a guy named Tony and I was with Lisa at the time. My interest in sourdough was ignited by The Mother Earth News, Issue 11, back in 1971. I still have that issue and that is where my starter came from. I bake every couple of weeks, taking the little crock from the fridge the morning before and adding 2 cups of water and two cups of flour that morning and again that night. The second morning I save out a cup of starter and make bread or pancakes or whatever with the rest of it. I have gotten to the point that I don't actually measure the flour in the bread any more, I just add it until it gets to the feel I want with my hands.
10
Any suggestions on how to substitute starter for yeast when making bagels?
http://anoregoncottage.com/how-to-make-sourdough-bagels/
That computer should help you find a recipe, but use this.
That computer should help you find a recipe, but use this.
Some recipes have you discarding half the starter at each feeding in the beginning. Is there any benefit to doing this, rather than simply starting with less flour and water to begin with?
1
It's all about the proportion of new flour (food) for the microorganisms to eat. If you've got a gallon of starter and you put a cup of flour in, that's very different from having 3 cups of starter and putting a cup of flour in.
Also, if you don't discard of use some, it'll take over your kitchen as it grows.
In my experience, this is a less exact science than many here seem to think. Get things started and then feed as necessary and over time, you'll get a good feel for it. One thing is, everyone's home environment is different. The starter I made from scratch took almost three weeks to ripen where I expected it to ripen in a week. My house isn't surgically clean by any means but there must be a bit less wild yeast in the air in it. No big deal, just keep feeding until things get going.
Also, if you don't discard of use some, it'll take over your kitchen as it grows.
In my experience, this is a less exact science than many here seem to think. Get things started and then feed as necessary and over time, you'll get a good feel for it. One thing is, everyone's home environment is different. The starter I made from scratch took almost three weeks to ripen where I expected it to ripen in a week. My house isn't surgically clean by any means but there must be a bit less wild yeast in the air in it. No big deal, just keep feeding until things get going.
3
Some recipes have you discarding half the starter at each feeding in the beginning. Is there any benefit to doing this, rather than simply starting with less flour and water to begin with?
You can start with less and build up if you wish. Depending on how long it takes you will most probably end up with discard as eventually you'll end up with a barrel full. Each feed should roughly = 1:1:1. 1 part starter : 1 part water : 1 part flour, by weight.
You can start off small and build instead of creating a large amount and having to discard on day two already.
You'll find many different methods. I favour mixing a good amount then waiting till you see activity then starting the discarding of 2/3rds and feeding 1/3rd water + 1/3rd flour by weight.
I'm also in favour of only feeding when seeing activity. Many people overfeed at the beginning stages which is actually more of a hindrance. Feed when there is activity and once the starter is predictable a bubbles up everytime it is fed, on cue, then it is ready.
You can start off small and build instead of creating a large amount and having to discard on day two already.
You'll find many different methods. I favour mixing a good amount then waiting till you see activity then starting the discarding of 2/3rds and feeding 1/3rd water + 1/3rd flour by weight.
I'm also in favour of only feeding when seeing activity. Many people overfeed at the beginning stages which is actually more of a hindrance. Feed when there is activity and once the starter is predictable a bubbles up everytime it is fed, on cue, then it is ready.
1
You have a container with a population of yeast. It's like a house full of cats, males and females. The females are having kittens. You can discard half the cats (give them to friends) and give the remaining cats some food. Or, you can keep all the cats and give them half as much food. What do you think will happen in each scenario?
2
It's not a question of volume. It's about the proportion of active yeast to the amount of food available to them. When you dump part of your starter and add more flour and water the remaining yeast are able to eat, digest and multiply in a less competitive environment allowing them to thrive.
2
Does anyone have suggestions for a starter recipe for my wife? Her 30th birthday is next week, our five year anniversary is next month, we just found out she is pregnant, and we are leaving Hawaii for New York. I feel like this might be a special gift that we could grow together, with each loaf reminding us of our journey.
4
Congratulations, and bon voyage. (Sorry I don't have a recipe for you, only best wishes).
Ed. as noted in the article, you might try making a starter yourself, combining a cup of water and a cup of flour in a covered bowl and allowing it to sit at room temperature until it begins to bubble and bloom.
Happy 30th Birthday to your spouse!
Happy 30th Birthday to your spouse!
King Arthur Flour sells a great sourdough starter and a crock to keep it in. Mine has been going strong for 16 years and makes excellent Tartine bread every week!
1
Drove to New Orleans from Brooklyn a few weeks back. Took half my starter with me in a pint size mason jar. Baked a few loaves in NOLA. Fed it and drove back. Those Zydeco brass band Cajun New Orleans jazz band yeast added another dimension to my bread.
9
Been there, done that. Cultivating starter is satisfying, but there's more to do in life. I settle for the 18-hour classic no-knead bread made with 12 oz bread flour and 8 oz whole wheat flour. It disappears far too fast in my house, so something is going right.
I'm sure there's a real gap between my bread and the perfect loaves described here. Likewise, I settle for what my friend calls mid-fi audio and have no need for 4K video. We make our choices.
I'm sure there's a real gap between my bread and the perfect loaves described here. Likewise, I settle for what my friend calls mid-fi audio and have no need for 4K video. We make our choices.
11
I do about the same thing. Yeasted dough sitting overnight. I use 2 cups of King Arthur medium rye and 5 cups of Alta (if you don't know Alta, give it a go, it's fantastic), a tablespoon of caraway seeds, yeast, salt, no knead, etc. Bake in casserole, 1/2 hour lid on, 1/2 hour off.
2
I made some starter over the holidays. I was told to use filtered water since the chlorine or whatever might be in tap water might kill the yeast. It was fun and easy to make. However each day you have to take about 1/2 of the starter out and feed what is left with a cup of flour and 1/2 cup of water. I kept keeping what I took out of the starter and adding more flour and water, soon I had numerous starters. Fun, Fun, Fun. I used the starter to make English muffins which turned out great.
3
You would think that since I have mailed more than 10,000 natural yeast starts (genuine yeast starts from wheat from my garden, not "starts" made of genetically modified grocery store yeast), for FREE, all over the U.S. I would at least deserve a mention in this article. Oh yes, and I'm a co-author of the national bestselling book... Sigh.
10
Read more from Mr. Warnock here: http://calebwarnock.blogspot.com/. And if you're interested in his yeast flakes, look here: http://calebwarnock.com/sp/free-natural-yeast/.
4
Longtime SD addict, I taught a two-hour class on beginning a starter. Tested, then used the simple instructions in Lauren Chattman's, "Bread Making: Crafting the Perfect Loaf." For more pizazz, Marizio's blog, The Perfect Loaf (popular title) has detailed instruction, great photos of the process at http://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-starter-maintenance-routine/. He also answers questions.
Delighted you began the conversation, Sam Sifton.
Delighted you began the conversation, Sam Sifton.
1
Nice article but what about http://www.mylifeinsourdough.com ?
Marie is the Queen of Sourdough!
Marie is the Queen of Sourdough!
This is so funny! A couple of weeks ago, I woke up with an idea for an easy way to make pizza. I'd use a no-knead dough recipe, which I expected would be easier to spread out in a pizza pan than regular dough which tends to spring back. I did it and it worked great. I had some leftover dough that I put in my fridge. My pizza was so good that I started making one every night, meanwhile, replenishing my bowl of loose dough (by loose I mean soft, not stiff) in the fridge.
I've tried making sourdough in the past, and directions always said to leave it on your counter. All I ever got from that was some seriously spoiled dough. But in the fridge it works great.
I'm not saying I have real "sour dough" because i started with commercial yeast, but it's so handy to have this yeasty loose dough ready to cook and bake with! So funny to see it in today's paper-- with even a pizza recipe! Last weekend, I thought of waffles and tried that. I've also made scones with it. I am truly a trend-setter. This confirms it yet again.
I've tried making sourdough in the past, and directions always said to leave it on your counter. All I ever got from that was some seriously spoiled dough. But in the fridge it works great.
I'm not saying I have real "sour dough" because i started with commercial yeast, but it's so handy to have this yeasty loose dough ready to cook and bake with! So funny to see it in today's paper-- with even a pizza recipe! Last weekend, I thought of waffles and tried that. I've also made scones with it. I am truly a trend-setter. This confirms it yet again.
5
Ms. Szymanski has it completely right. I am one of the hundreds of thousands that were touched by Mr. Lahey's article in the Times back in '08(?), and I started (ha!) with commercial yeast but quickly moved to creating a starter of my own, and I haven't looked back. My bread is, in the opinion of nearly everyone I have given it to, at least as good as the local artisanal bakers', and we have some mighty fine bakers in the region so that is saying something. Mr. Lahey et al have done a great service to the food culture in the U.S.
4
I'm surprised the article doesn't mention the so-called mixed method of making sourdough loaves. This entails the addition of a teaspoon or so of commercial instant yeast to the "purist" dough, which cuts the final proofing period down from four hours to two hours. The finished loaf may be slightly less sour than one made without commercial yeast, but is otherwise excellent. Also, I find that resting the dough overnight in the refrigerator, 8-10 hours, is crucial for producing the best results. And nothing beats a Danish dough whisk for mixing and pulling the dough together.
1
I don't understand what the point of using a sourdough starter is if you're just going to add commercial yeast which in all likelihood will just overwhelm your sourdough starter. It seems you're just making extra work for yourself.
1
Inspired by Michael Pollan's book, Cooked, I started making sourdough two and a half years ago. I did all kinds of research before I got started and was initially intimidated by all of the precise measuring of ingredients, careful timings, ratios and temperatures to fuss about. Add to that how wildly different one cook or chef is from another in their advice and instructions and it all seemed pretty cmlicated. Eventually it hit me - this is an ancient process and as long as I pretty much keep to water, flour, salt and time - it's going to work. And it really does.
Sometimes I think the hardest part of cooking is realizing how easy it is. Making sourdough is just about the simplest and most satisfying thing I do. I can fancy it up with special flours, added ingredients, proofing baskets and special bakers. And I'll get a pretty impressive load if I do.
But i've learned I can keep it simple. I often do the final proof in a regular old loaf pan and it turns out out fine. Sometimes you just need a loaf of bread to make toast to have with your coffee in the morning.
Sometimes I think the hardest part of cooking is realizing how easy it is. Making sourdough is just about the simplest and most satisfying thing I do. I can fancy it up with special flours, added ingredients, proofing baskets and special bakers. And I'll get a pretty impressive load if I do.
But i've learned I can keep it simple. I often do the final proof in a regular old loaf pan and it turns out out fine. Sometimes you just need a loaf of bread to make toast to have with your coffee in the morning.
32
I think the simple loaves are my best as well
When I last visited friends in Spain they proudly shared their family vinegar which I was told was made from a starter culture passed down through generations. I recall the patriarch Rafael saying maybe a 300 year history. It was a part of family lore that was woven into the fabric of their lives in many ways not least of which was the extraordinary end product.
8
Whether homemade organic by talented friends or "store bought" from even supposedly the best artisan bakeries, I've never had sour dough that didn't taste, well, definitely "sour." Sorry, not for me. (My southern Virginia grandmother was born in 1880 and older family members still wax poetic about her yeast rolls, though.)
2
Great timing for this article. I was inspired by some of the scientific studies I read online about the ability of those with Celiac disease to digest sourdough bread. Sample sizes for these studies were very small, however, and most of evidence for the tolerance appeared anecdotal. My unbleached flour and bottled water starter took more than 3 weeks to bloom. (Here in FL, I find the humidity makes baking anything persnickety, and I think there's something unusual about the protein content of flour. ) In any case, the first batches of bread were incredible and my husband, who has diagnosed celiac, has happily enjoyed our sourdough with NO reaction. In fact, I cautioned him to take it easy initially for fear of getting sick. He has not eaten real bread in more than a decade, and no, that rice flour dreck doesn't count. I am astounded and would love see what this stuff looks like under a microscope. Could it be that the good germs are somehow breaking down the elements in flour that cause a negative reaction for CD sufferers? Also, would using an older breed of grain like einkorn, which has fewer chromosomes and less gluten, rise just as well?
9
First, what a great outcome! So glad you've found a way to avoid some gluten issues. Gluten catches CO2, which is what gives bread its loft. With less gluten, something else must be added to allow the dough to catch the CO2. A common additive in gluten free baking is xanthan gum. My local low-key grocery store carries it (and I like it in home made ice cream for super creamy texture too).
Michael Pollan writes about some of this in his book "Cooked," and talks about it on the Netflix show of the same name. The argument is that the fermentation process breaks down, as you say, "the elements in flour that cause a negative reaction for CD sufferers." Pretty cool, no? Happy experimentation.
4
I don't like all the waste generated by starter recipes that call for large amounts of flour. I feed my starter everyday, sometimes twice a day if I am preparing a large bake (a younger starter makes a milder-tasting loaf). I also use a very thick starter, since that takes longer to hit the watery, acetic stage. I'm not terribly precise, but my measures are about 22-25 grams of water + 35-45 grams of flour (so about a 60%-70% hydration = water divided by flour) plus about 10-12 g of old starter. This yields plenty to make a 900 gram loaf plus have enough left over to start a new batch. The tiniest amount of starter will happily ferment a new batch of flour. If I want to bake more, I just double/triple the amount of flour and water a day or two before. I keep the starter in a small glass bowl with a plastic top, and each day scoop out and use or discard all but about a teaspoon (my 10-12 grams), then add the new flour and water. About twice a month, I transfer the starter to a clean bowl since the sides get pretty gunked up. Using the starter 6-8 hours after I have refreshed it, I think, makes the least sour breads, at least if I don't let the bread rise too long. For a baguette shape, I have had success with a 3-hour bulk ferment and a 75-minute final rise, longer final rise with a boule shape.
9
I had a similar concern about the waste in keeping a starter going. The solution: don't discard the extra starter, keep it in the freezer. When you have a pint or two, make some sourdough crackers! They're so easy and there are tons of recipes online. And the crackers are additive.
2
In response to several questions.... "Sourdough" (which simply means naturally-leavened) may be mild (sweet) or sour, depending on how long the dough is fermente or whether a dough has been supplemented with a chemical additive (common with mass-produced "sourdough" breads).... True sourdoughs (naturally-leavened) are more easily digestible because, as I learned, the lactic acids neutralize the phytates in flour, making vitamins and minerals in flours more available to the body and more easily digestible, as well as slowing the rate glucose is released into the bloodstream, therefore lowering the glycemic index....
Ed Wood's Sourdoughs International site (mentioned elsewhere here) is a terrific intro to sourdoughs (he also sells starters), and his book "Classic Sourdoughs" has one of the best introductions for starting, feeding, maintaining, and replenishing a sourdough culture. The book also includes recipes.
Very hot ovens will get better rises, but you'll have to play with temps, depending on the size of your loaf. I had a small artisan bread bakery (all naturally-leavened breads) a number of years ago, and the temps in my wood-fired oven were far higher than temps I can get in my home oven. I set it for 550 and bake.
Sourdough cultures are remarkably resilient. You can keep them refrigerated forever. Simply replenish (feed) over a few days' time, and it'll keep working for you.
Ed Wood's Sourdoughs International site (mentioned elsewhere here) is a terrific intro to sourdoughs (he also sells starters), and his book "Classic Sourdoughs" has one of the best introductions for starting, feeding, maintaining, and replenishing a sourdough culture. The book also includes recipes.
Very hot ovens will get better rises, but you'll have to play with temps, depending on the size of your loaf. I had a small artisan bread bakery (all naturally-leavened breads) a number of years ago, and the temps in my wood-fired oven were far higher than temps I can get in my home oven. I set it for 550 and bake.
Sourdough cultures are remarkably resilient. You can keep them refrigerated forever. Simply replenish (feed) over a few days' time, and it'll keep working for you.
7
I made my starter 10 years ago following Nancy Silverton's instructions in her wonderful, generous cookbook Breads from La Brea Bakery. I feed it once a month then put it back in the frig to remain dormant until I am ready to bake, then feed it only once a day for one or two days before baking. The sourdough bread that results is amazing, and a joy to make. It is also very easy, although it takes more than a day, during which I am not doing very much at all. The feeding recipe that works for me is: 4 1/2 oz. of starter, 1 3/4 cups water,
9 3/4 oz bread flour, which is based on Silverton's proportions although she has you feeding it much more often. No need to. Sometimes I make dog biscuits from the old starter instead of throwing it away, also her recipe, which can also be used as teething biscuits!
9 3/4 oz bread flour, which is based on Silverton's proportions although she has you feeding it much more often. No need to. Sometimes I make dog biscuits from the old starter instead of throwing it away, also her recipe, which can also be used as teething biscuits!
19
Can you share the recipe for the dog treats and teething biscuits?! Thanks!!
The Mason jar full my mom used to keep in the refrigerator was like a family member. Mom always used to remember to feed it as much as she did my sister and I. We all loved Mason.
16
I have thought about making my own sourdough bread, but it has proven easier to just buying it fresh from the local SF Bay Area bakery.
3
I don't throw away any starter and my bread is balanced.
Sheeeet - what would be the purpose of throwing away nice foamy starter? Wasteful. Been baking the fermented stuff since the recession -2009, if you are throwing starter away you are doing it wrong.
Sheeeet - what would be the purpose of throwing away nice foamy starter? Wasteful. Been baking the fermented stuff since the recession -2009, if you are throwing starter away you are doing it wrong.
6
If you have more starter than your container will hold, you have to take some out to make room for what you add to feed it. You can bake with that, but if you're not baking that day, you can throw it away.
Ideally, you would be taking a portion out to bake with, then replacing that amount.
Ideally, you would be taking a portion out to bake with, then replacing that amount.
Hmm I suggest you get a bigger container, my friend. My starter is grown in the same bowl I keep my dough in. When the dough is done the germs leftover on the sides of the bowl restart my next batch.
1
I was inspired by Michael Pollen's "Cooked" episode about bread. I love bread but I have a sensitivity to gluten. I got the impression from the show that sour dough bread is more easily tolerated. I bought a loaf from our local baker and sure enough -- I digested it just fine. Was that my imagination, or can sourdough bread really be more easily digestible than breads made from gluten. Anybody know?
5
Its a fermented food and most fermenting processes pre digest the feed so making it easier for our digestion.
1
So, once you take some starter for a recipe...what do you do to replenish the starter. Or, more accurately, how much flour and liquid do you add to maintain the balance? The same amount you took out or a standard set amount?
1
Get a kitchen scale and feed your starter at 100% hydration -- equal weight of flour and water. The amount depends on how much starter you have -- 50 to 75 grams of each is a good start.
I use 3/4 cup water to 1 cup of flour.
Ask 2 bakers and get 3 answers. No two bakers will keep their starters in exactly the same way. And what's more, everyone's starter is unique. This is what makes sourdough so fascinating. Once you start you'll be hooked. It's all a bit overwhelming at first with a bit of information overload. At the beginning you'll follow precise measurements and seem to be discarding a lot. You'll be thinking if it's all worth it and wondering if you'll ever get the hang of it. Make a starter, use it and even if it's not a 100% success at the start it'll soon become second nature and you'll create your own ways and methods of doing things. My method is as follows (I never say this is what you should do and always say this is my method etc as there is no one correct way)...
1. I stick to whole rye at 100% hydration. Whole rye as it's easier to maintain and more hardy than wheat starters and 100% hydration so I always know how much water/flour ratio there is.
2. Once made my starter took up residence in the fridge. Now i'm not slave to my starter anymore. It works for me.
3. With careful maintenance and the right balance there is no more discard. I simply feed my starter, allow it to bubble up by half and then return it to the fridge. Everytime I wish to bake i'll take a little off and build a pre-ferment. This allows me to never build too much and therefore no discard, allow me to build with different flours and/or hydration all the while keeping the starter in the fridge 100% whole rye
1. I stick to whole rye at 100% hydration. Whole rye as it's easier to maintain and more hardy than wheat starters and 100% hydration so I always know how much water/flour ratio there is.
2. Once made my starter took up residence in the fridge. Now i'm not slave to my starter anymore. It works for me.
3. With careful maintenance and the right balance there is no more discard. I simply feed my starter, allow it to bubble up by half and then return it to the fridge. Everytime I wish to bake i'll take a little off and build a pre-ferment. This allows me to never build too much and therefore no discard, allow me to build with different flours and/or hydration all the while keeping the starter in the fridge 100% whole rye
3
One of the greatest gifts ever given to me was a sourdough culture started in my community almost 50 years ago. It actually enabled me to begin (and sustain) a local bread business!
I'm always so happy when fellow bakers ask to share the culture that was gifted to me, and I honestly cannot think of a greater way to repay the gentleman that first stirred the flour and water together so many year ago.
I'm always so happy when fellow bakers ask to share the culture that was gifted to me, and I honestly cannot think of a greater way to repay the gentleman that first stirred the flour and water together so many year ago.
5
I started my own culture more than a year and a half ago with an initial mixture of flour and pineapple juice, following the directions on breadtopia.com. It's been getting better and better as it matures. (I tell people I'm a microbial farmer; they don't know what to think.) I use it to make all the bread we eat, and sourdough whole grain wheat waffles on Sunday morning, and have made sourdough cornbread, pizza dough, and sourdough chocolate cake and brownies (they were fantastic!!) In fact, I transitioned from white flour to stone ground wheat flour (Bob's Red Mill sells really good flour) to buying my own grains and a grain mill. Each step resulted in better and better bread. Which I make by using a slightly modified no-knead method: very simple, long ferments, little work. In fact, I have bread baking in my oven now. I never want to go back to eating "store bought" so-called bread. Neither does my husband; when I slipped on ice last year and broke my wrist, he made the bread, under my supervision; it was just as tasty as mine!
6
After keeping two sourdough starters going for many years (I had two King Arthur's crocks), I finally tired of their unpredictable rise and flavor, and decamped back to long slow rises with commercial yeast. I've made all of our (whole grain) bread for several decades.
This article inspires me to give sourdough starter another spin, but I'm aware of their limitations, too!
This article inspires me to give sourdough starter another spin, but I'm aware of their limitations, too!
5
I freeze my starter between baking loaves. Once thawed, I use old starter for Rose Levy Berenbaum's beer bread recipe, feed the rest and bake 2 sourdough loaves on the second or third or fourth day. I never waste a drop and don't worry about constant feeding and baking on schedule. It miraculously comes to life when thawed. Often, a mixed dough will rise in the fridge until I have time to bake. I follow advice from some baking sage who said "if it hasn't risen enough, you haven't waited long enough". There are many recipes out there for using up old starter. Keep looking and be patient.
8
I started my own starter a couple of weeks ago following the King Arthur starter recipe. It got bubbley and expanded on day three, I fed it, and it's been bubbley, but hasn't risen since. At then end of the week I moved it to the fridge and now I only take it out the day before I use it in a recipe. It's made pancakes, but it didn't rise the bread I tried to make a couple of days ago. Any advice? Should I take it back out of the fridge?
1
Take it out and bring it back to bubbly life with a slow feeding over a couple,of days at warm/room temperature. Use some to bake bread. Feed it and get it bubbly and expanding.mput it back in the fridge when it's active.
1
I have a jar of starter that hasn't been 'fed' in years and years. All this time It has sit neglected in a back corner of the fridge. How can I tell if it can be resuscitated? If so, how?
2
A starter requires feeding and the right temperature to be active. However, a starter that has been in the fridge for a long period (months or longer) may still contain the key elements of its original microbe ecosystem. Were I in your shoes, I would attempt to resuscitate by introducing a small amount (tablespoon) to a fresh fully hydrated starter (see wildyeastblog or chewswise) of flour and rye (two tablespoons each), and place in a warmish location for a day or two. But even if it doesn't resuscitate, creating a new starter can take just a week and is almost always successful. So don't despair.
Stir it up till it's smooth. Add a half cup of flour and a cup of lukewarm water and stir. Let it sit on the counter for a few days to a week. You should start to see bubbles.
Confession: I sometimes "cheat" and feed my starter with dried malt extract (for brewing) or some molasses. It will get it going faster, especially if it's been sitting for a while.
Confession: I sometimes "cheat" and feed my starter with dried malt extract (for brewing) or some molasses. It will get it going faster, especially if it's been sitting for a while.
I have neglected my starter for long periods of time in the refrigerator without harm. To see if your starter is still good, just mix up a batch of starter with water and flour as you normally would, and let it sit out for 12 to 24 hours. If it starts bubbling, it is still viable. If you repeat this a couple of times, your starter will become even more active.
Took my "animules" (as my kids call them) out of the fridge this morning where I had left them chillin while overseas for a week. Mixed up a fresh rye/white wheat starter with just a tablespoon of the little beasts. By evening they had quadrupled and are ready to innoculate a levain which I'll make tomorrow morning. I am using Sam Fromartz' baguette recipe and practicing for summer production in my home-built Alan Scott wood-fired bread oven. If you kill your starter (or first time) it takes about a week to "create" a starter from rye flour, honey and water. Glad to know I'm not the only amateur doing this.
5
As a San Francisco hippie waaay back, I treated my starter like my baby, making fabulous loaves and cakes and replenishing constantly I kept my child for six years until moving made it impossible. I tearfully used my last few loaves for my good-bye party of friends. While I usually snort at recycling trends as though they've "just been discovered," I'm delighted that "young'uns" are discovering the joy of sourdough and the great joy in happily kneading loaves. Think I'll start one again! Thanks.
14
The least expensive and easiest way to get both a sourdough bread and starter is to buy a bag of Easy Artisan 49er sourdough bread mix for under $5. Each bag contains enough freeze dried sourdough starter to make a 16 oz loaf, with enough dough for a true starter. Why take months when it takes just a minute for a to get a pure strain.
3
After reading this I need to start my starter. Any comments about doing it on warm locations?
3
Great article. I took a sourdough bread making class last November in Sacramento, and I've been baking like a crazy person. What I have earned is the more I baked, the better the bread was. After a while you just get the hang of it. It's really a lot of fun.
3
In Yukon, there are still a few sourdough starters that came over the Chilkoot Pass during the Klondike Gold Rush and have been maintained over the last one hundred and eighteen years. It is the mainstay of those who live in the bush and cannot access yeast easily and there are stories of people taking the bowl to bed with them in winter so that it doesn't freeze and die overnight. In fact, "sourdough" is the name given to someone who has wintered in the Yukon and seen the ice on the Yukon River come in and out.
21
My starter is coming up on 9 years old. A couple years ago it had a flavor transformation from sour tangy to mellow buttery! (malolactic action?) I think its good to use a variety of foods. Mine goes crazy if I give it some whole wheat flour for a change.
7
I've been working with sourdough for about 30 years. What I tell people is that unlike most cooking, which is fundamentally about chemistry, sourdough is about biology. You're establishing a LTR with a bunch of unicellular organisms. It's great fun.
6
Read Laura Ingalls Wilder. Sourdough bread was about all they had, and she describes it and how to make it.
Can learn a great deal from those "Little House" books.
Can learn a great deal from those "Little House" books.
13
Each and every housewife on my street in a suburb of Omaha in 1969 had a sourdough starter and made sourdough bread...same with my relatives in Illinois and Missouri.
3
If you get interested in this get a La Cloche baker. It simulates the inside of a brick oven and does wonders for getting the all-important crust just so.
1
There is an excellent website called sourdo.com which sells sourdough cultures from all over the world. I use the one they got from a centuries old bakery on the Island of Ischia in Italy, and it makes great Italian bread and pizza that tastes like the stuff you get in Naples (I also use an oven that gets un to 900 degrees go it bakes in a few minutes the way they do it there). This is a sourdough which is not very sour. When on vacation in Brazil I have started my own culture by simply putting out a flour and water mixture out on the windowsill until it starts to bubble, and I made some tremendous bubbly focaccia using this culture. Sourdo.com was started by a pathologist who became interested in and collecting ancient sourdough cultures, and he also has a book which explains how to maintain and "wash" your cultures, and which has many recipes. One thing I learned from him is that activating your culture before you use it gives the best results- so take a cup out of your mother culture from the refrigerator, add a cup of flour and a half cup of spring or distilled (NOT city tap water), mix it and let it rise at room temperature (or a little higher if possible - 75-80 degrees) until it rises and froths (and it may overflow your bowl)- at that point the culture is maximally active, and if you use it to make dough it will cause it to rise very briskly and make great bread.
8
I have never been able to get a decent rise out of a sourdough starter even though I've had some supposedly well-established or even commercially available starters... thoughts, help?
The only thing I can suggest is making sure you are proofing at an adequate temperature. Some ovens have a proofing mode, where the temperature is around 80 degrees. You can also build a proofing box by using a low wattage light bulb with a dimmer switch and thermometer in a styrofoam container, and trying to proof at higher temperatures- experiment from 75-90 degrees. When I made my own local sourdough starter in Brazil the temperature was probably in the 80s or higher which is one reason it did so well. A room temperature of 68 or even 72 is too low to really get cultures fully activated. When you activate your culture you should see it rise "exponentially" as it rises and bubbles up and peaks then starts shrinking down as it starts to run out of the sugar needed for growing with the shortest doubling time.
1
I was wondering if that guy was still around (at Sourdoughs International)!
I bought, via mail order in the late '80s, three of the packaged starters as offered by Sourdoughs International. Of the two starters I've still got going, one is the Russian starter offered on the sourdo.com website from that initial order. The other is a recipe using Champagne grapes I got from Steve Singleton's method as described in "Chez Panisse Cookbook," by Alice Waters.
I agree with both the article and commenters that started adopt and adapt to local ingredients and atmosphere. I must say, that my two starters, although fed from the same trough, bear distinct qualities: one is sweet and mildly sour, the other quite pungent and bolder (the Russian).
-- Randy
I bought, via mail order in the late '80s, three of the packaged starters as offered by Sourdoughs International. Of the two starters I've still got going, one is the Russian starter offered on the sourdo.com website from that initial order. The other is a recipe using Champagne grapes I got from Steve Singleton's method as described in "Chez Panisse Cookbook," by Alice Waters.
I agree with both the article and commenters that started adopt and adapt to local ingredients and atmosphere. I must say, that my two starters, although fed from the same trough, bear distinct qualities: one is sweet and mildly sour, the other quite pungent and bolder (the Russian).
-- Randy
20 years ago I made my first sourdough culture began to bake my first loaves.
It's the foundation of all that I eat. I bake once or twice a week for my family,
I mill whole grains and use the whey from my ricotta cheese in some loaves. 7 years agoI built a wood fired bread oven in my my kitchen and began to teach traditional hand baked bread and share my cultures with students from all over. It's true this pet can change lives.
It's the foundation of all that I eat. I bake once or twice a week for my family,
I mill whole grains and use the whey from my ricotta cheese in some loaves. 7 years agoI built a wood fired bread oven in my my kitchen and began to teach traditional hand baked bread and share my cultures with students from all over. It's true this pet can change lives.
28
It has changed lives!
And so have you. I was your student many years ago and have passed on much of what you taught me to an entire generation of my family.
And so have you. I was your student many years ago and have passed on much of what you taught me to an entire generation of my family.
5
Another question about spring and rise. I made my first loaves a couple weeks ago from my starter (Esme is her name) and they were delicious! Nice crust and good texture but --get this-- the loaves seemed to DEFLATE in the oven. Yeah, so no rise. The crumb looked decent, though. How did it deflate? Also, any ideas on how to get that tight taut layer on the top after shaping? The shaping is alluding me!
8
As I learned in bread school at the International Culinary Center, your loaves probably over-proofed. The yeasty bubbles were too large for the structure of the loaf to maintain its shape when baking. The heat made the bubbles expand, they burst and the loaf deflated like a popped balloon. A properly proofed loaf will spring back slowly when poked with your finger. Too slow, it's not ready yet, too fast, it's over-proofed..
Steve Knight, baker, NYC
Steve Knight, baker, NYC
15
Another question: for your sourdough no-knead bread recipe, could I use a cast iron dutch oven?
Try letting the shaped loaves rise for a shorter amount of time. Also, go to the King Arthur Website and search for the video on how to 'tighten' the loaf while shaping it.
1
i just left a job at the earthy crunchy groceria and on the way out i took the sourdough starter. my boss kind of let me, because i grew it, and i was the only one who knew how to use it. pastry school was a weekend thing for me twenty years ago and we were never able to use a levain because of the timing, so i had to teach myself. i found Peter Reinhart's method of propogating a culture to be the simplest and most elegant way to acquire one. i've left them in the fridge for up to three months at a time during winter layoffs at a country club and they will revive in a couple of days. don't really have a specific question, though the one by Tom Pendry is one i'd like to see answered.
3
Years ago, someone gave me some starter that was really sweet and made lovely bread. Is there a way to get "sweet" starter instead of sourdough starter? Do the recipes mentioned which use pineapple or grape juice do this?
5
Let the starter and the bread proof for longer at a lower temperature. For example, proofing at 100 degrees for two hours gives it a sour tang; proofing overnight at 70 degrees makes it much less sour.
5
You can use the sour starter to make a "chef", or low moisture starter. Then you can make levain-style breads with the chef buy doing subsequent "builds" of low moisture dough. You can get *very* sweet breads this way.
You can also add a little baking soda to your dough and that will neutralize the lactic acid in the sourdough. Adding a little malt syrup can both sweeten a loaf and make the fermenting yeast *really* happy.
You can also add a little baking soda to your dough and that will neutralize the lactic acid in the sourdough. Adding a little malt syrup can both sweeten a loaf and make the fermenting yeast *really* happy.
2
My daughter is a microbiologist and she said that the yeast for dough grows naturally on the skin of grapes.
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do you have to use filtered/spring water? how about just tap water?
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I've used tap water, but I'm lucky and am on a great water system. But I'll bet most tap water would work.
1
No - you really have to feed it the best water.
Of course you can use tap water. The preciousness of time-honored recipes that are "discovered anew makes me laugh, but using pure ingredients can't hurt. BTW, I thought up a "Rotten Barley Bread" that was both tangy and incredibly chewy. As I remember, I just used a pot of cooked barley, mixed with water, covered with a cheesecloth and slapped it behind the oven for days. It bubbled and rose like mad and that became my starter for this wonderful loaf. Don't get too precious with sourdough; have fun with it.
3
My current starter was made using Peter Reinhart's method and has survived a number of years in the fridge, frequently not being refreshed for three weeks. Sometimes I'm amazed that it comes back. I normally use a three day method: sponge overnight, create the final dough the second day and let it sit in the fridge another night. Then it takes several hours to warm up on the last day. I often cheat with a small amount of commercial yeast. I've made bread using rye, whole wheat, white, and some of those oddball flours which never quite seem to deliver, probably because I haven't experimented with them enough. No one has mentioned that one of the joys of using sourdough is that the bread keeps longer on your counter than non-sourdough home-made loaves. It also freezes really well. To the commenter that wondered about the different levels of sour, I think that the commercial folks add something to achieve the desired level of sour-ness.
11
Is there any correlation between time, the ingredients, location, or anything else and a more "sour" tasting bread? Some sourdough breads are really mild (Panera), some in the middle (Boudin) and others much more sour and flavorful (Rock Hill.) Any way of really bringing out the sour flavor?
4
The way to get really sour bread is to refrigerate the final dough. More time in the cold equals more sourness, but it can come at the expense of structure. Excess acidity will degrade the gluten.
You can also use a more mature sourdough culture, which has been refrigerated. It's the same principle of colder fermentation equals more sourness.
You can also use a more mature sourdough culture, which has been refrigerated. It's the same principle of colder fermentation equals more sourness.
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Consider the doughball to have a lifespan similar to a jug of milk. The longer it stays in the fridge the sourer and more complex the flavor will be. Also the harder it will be to get good oven spring from it. Make a big batch and cook from it in three different bakes, you will see.
2
I suspect that location might have some effect because I live in a plantation house, in a swamp in south Louisiana and it is always hot here. My first try, the starter bubbled up and out of the jar after just slightly more than 24 hours, I doubt it would do that in other cooler climates, newer houses or at higher elevations. Since the yeast comes from the air when making a starter and there are several hundred strains of wild yeast, I am pretty sure that different locations would have different tasting yeasts.
1
I JUST made my first loaf from starter a friend gave me Sunday! I am hooked. It was not fancy, not very sour, but gosh it was good. I definitely recommend the enamel dutch oven method. It came out round, brown and scored beautifully, my first loaf, and it looked like it came from a high end bakery.
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I remember that feeling. Congratulations!
1
I make my sourdough starter using raw milk and flour. I let it sit on the counter till it bubbles before refrigerating it. I add water to the starter when necessary.
5
Does it matter whether the pineapple juice is canned or fresh?
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If it's canned better that it be the UNsweetened variety, in my view.
4
I started making my own starter a few weeks ago. It makes great waffles but has yet to make a bread recipe rise. (And I've used a lot of flour trying!) Any ideas why? I just mixed this one up so we'll see what happens.
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Ah, the joys of experimentation. Michael Pollan talks about the perils of this in "Cooked" the book: TBF, for Total Bread Failure; PBF for the the partial variety. Keep going. Your starter is young still, and will grow into strength. (Some recipes call for using some sourdough mixed with packaged yeast; true believers HATE that.) As an experiment use less starter than you have in the past, and proof longer. That may give you a better rise.
3
in Crust and Crumb Reinhart uses 98% firm sponge in the final dough, in baker's percentages. the first time i pulled one of those loaves out of the oven i was in heaven. he cuts it back to 35% in The Bread Baker's Apprentice. Rae-Ann's comment further up the thread is interesting. when i get to using the barm at my new job it will give me something to think about.
1
When it is really robust you will know it and it will be so exciting. A couple of things I found through trial & error & google have helped: letting the water sit out for a few hours/overnight if you are on municipal water and avoiding using metal bowls. But probably the starter is still working its way up to maturity and soon you will have success.
1
Sam, would sourdough starter work with a gluten free flour (teff, sorghum, buckwheat, rice)? I miss really good bread and used to love sourdough. While I appreciate that nothing will be quite as amazing as the real, gluten-y thing, I'm eager to try my hand at a reasonable approximation.
2
You know who's really smart about gluten-free bread baking? Shauna James Ahern, the Gluten-Free Girl. Here's her recipe and instruction, which should put you on the right track: https://glutenfreegirl.com/2015/08/gluten-free-sourdough-bread/.
13
I used the no-knead recipe and then saved a third of the dough using it as the starter for the next loaf along with 2 cups of flour and a 1 cup of water. The wild yeast replaces that regular yeast pretty quickly after a few cycles of this and you end up with sour dough.
I prefer the smaller loaf that results but I don't think it would change much if you simply increased the flour to three cups and the water to 1 1/2 cups, saving a quarter of the dough each time. The rising would likely take a bit longer.
I prefer the smaller loaf that results but I don't think it would change much if you simply increased the flour to three cups and the water to 1 1/2 cups, saving a quarter of the dough each time. The rising would likely take a bit longer.
7
A couple of things that I have learned about sourdough.
Don't rush it!...when left to bubble overnight in the refrigerator, you are encouraging more lactic acid to build up, and get that nice "twang" of a hallmark sourdough bread.
Also, I am skeptical of global variations of sourdough that you would bring into your own kitchen. At first, there maybe some uniqueness, but over time, the starter will take on the characteristics of your environs, as local yeasts will propagate instead the older non supported yeasts. Not a bad thing, just name it something like ( in my case ) Savannah Funk.
King Author's website is one of the better ones when it comes to recipes, in my mind.
Don't over think it, just experiment and do it!
Don't rush it!...when left to bubble overnight in the refrigerator, you are encouraging more lactic acid to build up, and get that nice "twang" of a hallmark sourdough bread.
Also, I am skeptical of global variations of sourdough that you would bring into your own kitchen. At first, there maybe some uniqueness, but over time, the starter will take on the characteristics of your environs, as local yeasts will propagate instead the older non supported yeasts. Not a bad thing, just name it something like ( in my case ) Savannah Funk.
King Author's website is one of the better ones when it comes to recipes, in my mind.
Don't over think it, just experiment and do it!
24
I have been making these sourdough pancakes and waffles for over 40 years. The pancakes are light and fluffy and the waffles are ethereal and crisp. To make the starter, the day before place 1 cup of your starter in a bowl. Stir in 1 cup of lukewarm water. then stir in 1 1/2 cups of flour and mix well. Set in a warm place overnight. The next day reserve 1 cup of starter for the next time. You are left with 1 1/2 cups of sourdough for your batter. Wild blueberries are a nice touch when sprinkled over the pancakes before turning. Just saying....
Sourdough Pancakes Or Waffles
1 1/2 c. sourdough starter
1 egg, beaten
1/4 c. butter, melted
1/4 c. dry milk
2 TB sugar
3/4 t. salt
1 t. baking soda
Whisk together the sourdough starter, egg, melted butter and the dry milk. In another small bowl, whisk together the sugar, salt and baking soda. When the griddle or waffle iron is hot. Sprinkle the sugar mixture over the top of the sourdough mixture and fold in. The batter will bubble up. Use immediately for pancakes or let rest for 20 minutes or so for crisp waffles.
Sourdough Pancakes Or Waffles
1 1/2 c. sourdough starter
1 egg, beaten
1/4 c. butter, melted
1/4 c. dry milk
2 TB sugar
3/4 t. salt
1 t. baking soda
Whisk together the sourdough starter, egg, melted butter and the dry milk. In another small bowl, whisk together the sugar, salt and baking soda. When the griddle or waffle iron is hot. Sprinkle the sugar mixture over the top of the sourdough mixture and fold in. The batter will bubble up. Use immediately for pancakes or let rest for 20 minutes or so for crisp waffles.
22
What is dry milk? Is it like milk powder? Thanks for sharing your recipe!
Thank you for the recipe. We enjoyed these today. They were moist and light and had good flavor. Next time I will try using a little less salt as they were a bit on the salty side for our taste, even with unsalted butter. Perhaps if I had added blueberries, the salt would have been just right. Even so, they were history within ten minutes of coming off the griddle.
Hello Ron from Grand Marais: I just made this recipe and split between pancakes and waffles, and made both (left overs stored between wax papers, in fridge to be enjoyed later this week). They are really good! Light, fluffy, pretty brown colors, and taste great! Thank you for sharing this recipe.
Why is the temperature for baking this no knead bread 100 degrees higher than what is suggested for regular no knead bread?
1
Truth is you may be fine at 450. But I get better spring at the higher temperature.
4
Don't forget the breadmaker! If you mix the dough before bedtime and let it rise overnight, then it can bake in the morning. Or mix it in the morning and set a delayed bake to have a warm loaf ready, when you get home from work. I also would add that organic flours seem to work best for culturing a sour dough and that lowfat milk can substitute for fruit juice in that process.
2