Who knows why.......theory number #658: Putin struck a deal with Iran over oil or gas- part of the deal was that Putin help Assad for a limited time. He did and now lots more money will flow between Iran and Russia. Also good excuse to size up Turkey while flying in their airspace.
It has been stated that the force deployed to Syria by Russia is 3 million dollars per day. We (U.S.) canceled FSA program to train and vet fighters which was budgeted for 500 million dollars. Which works out to a 5.55 month deployment by Russia at 3 million dollars per day. Now Russia is starting a pullout after 5 months, 1 week and 6 days, (30 September 2015 – 14 March 2016).
Certain symbolism here about who got more bang for the buck. One good thing is Turkish planes won't be flying under S400 Triumf (sa-21 growler) coverage to bomb Kurds anytime soon.
With reservations in the political arena concerning Assad's government. Which I am certain Russia shares to some degree. Is Syria's land mass more stable and better able to resist ISIL and Al Nusra terrorist's, (daesh and daesh light)? I would say yes.
Russia has shown where interest for stability leading to negotiated settlement is present they can contribute and should be considered before policy is unilaterally decided.
Certain symbolism here about who got more bang for the buck. One good thing is Turkish planes won't be flying under S400 Triumf (sa-21 growler) coverage to bomb Kurds anytime soon.
With reservations in the political arena concerning Assad's government. Which I am certain Russia shares to some degree. Is Syria's land mass more stable and better able to resist ISIL and Al Nusra terrorist's, (daesh and daesh light)? I would say yes.
Russia has shown where interest for stability leading to negotiated settlement is present they can contribute and should be considered before policy is unilaterally decided.
1
Perhaps it is a case where Putin wants Assad to be front and center, and not him at the Geneva talks? Will the so-called opposition have to negotiate with Assad, and not Russia, through the US?
Putin and Assad are moving the format from external, to internal Syria.
Putin and Assad are moving the format from external, to internal Syria.
It was the price of oil. The last time oil prices went bust like this was in the mid-1980's, just prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union. The Russian government derives too much of its income from oil revenue.
This is a widely held misconception. While oil was riding high, not just the Russians, but all other producers, in and outside OPEC (including Canada, with its very expensive tar sands bitumen, that only breaks even at around $85-90) accumulated a lot of reserves.
According to a CNN Money report on Jan 13th, "half of Russia's government revenue still comes from its energy exports" ... "Russia already cut spending by 10% last year" ... "to balance its books, Russia would need to sell oil for $82 per barrel" ... "the government based its 2016 budget on oil at 50$ per barrel" ...
Did it ever occur to anyone that Putin is running out of money for his military adventures?
Too much! I mean, this would actually be funny were it not so serious. Guess he got Assad a one-way ticket out, right? He's going to need one. ISIS has their eye on that fancy palace.
An enlightened Putin will not repeat past mistakes made in becoming entrenched like in Afghanistan. He already has forces on the border there and fears more terrorist attacks at home if he doesn't disengage.
Funny that so many people are bringing up the Soviet's misfortune in Afghanistan. They left after 10 years.
The US invaded the place in 2001 and is still there, deeply entrenched, unable to extricate itself.
The US invaded the place in 2001 and is still there, deeply entrenched, unable to extricate itself.
1
Iran is a small potato. U.S. interest in the middle east is Texas tea, black gold, oil, oil, oil. OPEC members hold around 75% of world crude oil reserves. The countries with the largest oil reserves are, in order, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Venezuela, Russia, Libya, Kazakhstan and Nigeria. Now where are all our military troops? The nuke boys to worry about are the U.S., Russia and China. On Oct. 16, 1964, China detonated its first atomic bomb. Russian submarine-- the SS-N-21 has a range of about 1,860 miles -- and the weapon would have a greater chance of reaching its target than an air-dropped bomb. SSN Akula Class (Bars Type 971) Nuclear Submarine, Russia are deployed in the Pacific Ocean, so target cities would be Los Angeles. 8/6/09 CNN reported that two Russian attack submarines were cruising in the Atlantic off the East Coast of the United States. Well, there goes NY city. As humans we are all plagued with the same homicidal, warring, behavior which will always remain unchanged. In terms of human behavior, the more things seem to change....the more they remain the same. Man should stop making war in the name of liberty, justice, peace and in the name of God (all religions in the world). The true God is good and would not be blessing soldiers, war, weapons, nuclear bombs. nor murder and killing. As Christians we must get on our knees and ask God for forgiveness for killing our brothers after the bloodshed of war.
1
Funny how Russia can meet goals and then withdraw; something the US has never been able to do!! We always need bases and agreements that give us control!!! Can't seem to win or overcome anybody in a conflict but we are EXCEPTIONAL!!! We are involved in everyone"s business while the country slowly rots!!! Unemployed 100 million but we have 5% unemployment???? No inflation??? Government lies and deceives the people daily!! MSM complicit in the lies and NYT one of the biggest liars!!! Sad state of affairs and life on the planet!!! Thanks USA!
4
The Russians did rain on the ISIS parade. Now they go home.
Will, Assad regain former preeminence? Not very likely.
Result, the situation worsens. US ineffectiveness blacks Uncle Sam's eye. And other parties in the game glance longingly Russia's way or Putin offers to reenter the game to put matters right.
The price? Maybe offering Russia new presents, but definitely keeping its naval base in Tartus, which only Syrian parties have any business assuring.
Will, Assad regain former preeminence? Not very likely.
Result, the situation worsens. US ineffectiveness blacks Uncle Sam's eye. And other parties in the game glance longingly Russia's way or Putin offers to reenter the game to put matters right.
The price? Maybe offering Russia new presents, but definitely keeping its naval base in Tartus, which only Syrian parties have any business assuring.
So Putin has murdered or chased enough Syrians from the country to ensure that the hollow puppet Assad regime has a chance of survival. No worries that the wave of refugees fleeing his Chechnya-like brutality will try to get to Russia, with it's basket-case economy. Speaking of which, could Putin's scale-back be related to the collapse in oil prices and Russia's impending insolvency? Saudi Arabia's revenge. This article talks of 'signs of hope' in a country that has been utterly destroyed by one side using indiscriminate bombing, starving civilians and poison gas while the other side has practiced mass beheadings, drownings and sexual slavery. They're all going to agree to forget their differences and be pals. Right.
2
5 years of the US meddling into Syria and what we have ? 5 years of a unending civil war, foundation of ISIS, 250K civilian casualties, Assad still in power determined to fight as string as ever. 6 months of bloody Putin's intervention into Syria and what we see? Rebel groups at a negotiation table with Assad, rebels agreeing to joining forces with the Syrian government to fight Al Nusra and ISIS, Assad agreeing to new government elections and ISIS extremely weakened, and for the first time in 5 years a hope appears to see Syrian civil war come to an end.
How in the hell Putin managed to repair a country in 6 month that the US have been trying to break for 5 years ?
How in the hell Putin managed to repair a country in 6 month that the US have been trying to break for 5 years ?
2
Yes, they are leaving. No, that does not mean they are gone.
Long range jets fly away. We've now seen the first few do that. They can just as well fly right back again in the same few hours flying time.
Their more portable equipment is being loaded on transport aircraft. We seen that. It can just as well sit in its packing, ready to be flown right back again.
They are only a few hours away. That is not "gone."
We must avoid thinking that this is something finally over. This is just a step in a play. They are showing something, that they are not bombing. That is all.
Their bases are still there, still manned, their bomb dumps still full. A vast weight of bombs is too much to haul back again. At best they'll give them to Assad. They are flying out some stuff, not loading every bulky thing on ships.
In a way, they are tempting others to misbehavior, while making their own propaganda point, and sidestepping their own quagmire.
Overestimating this is tempting, and would be a serious mistake.
Long range jets fly away. We've now seen the first few do that. They can just as well fly right back again in the same few hours flying time.
Their more portable equipment is being loaded on transport aircraft. We seen that. It can just as well sit in its packing, ready to be flown right back again.
They are only a few hours away. That is not "gone."
We must avoid thinking that this is something finally over. This is just a step in a play. They are showing something, that they are not bombing. That is all.
Their bases are still there, still manned, their bomb dumps still full. A vast weight of bombs is too much to haul back again. At best they'll give them to Assad. They are flying out some stuff, not loading every bulky thing on ships.
In a way, they are tempting others to misbehavior, while making their own propaganda point, and sidestepping their own quagmire.
Overestimating this is tempting, and would be a serious mistake.
4
Maybe staging to move on eastern Europe after setting the immigrant crisis in Germany, ..
2
Dream on, lad. I was in Poland in 2006. They will never let Russia back in without demanding we honor our treaty obligations under NATO. Same in the Baltic States. Putin is not so stupid as to begin WW III, and he'd lose a conventional war with us badly.
Trump would be stupid enough to start such a war.
Trump would be stupid enough to start such a war.
It looks like the Putin approach will wipe out the major competitors or at least give to President Bashar al-Assad a win over the Syrian opposition which in turn will leave this nation in the same mess that Germany and Japan were following their losses in WWII. Now what will be needed is a new version of the Truman approach which will result in the rebuilding of this destroyed nation. This time however it better be the military winners in that war who need to fund this rebuilding and that would be both Russia and Iran. Do you think either one of these nations will take on that responsibility? If not to what degree can the rest of this industrialized world push them down this "responsibility" path? They may also want to add contributions from each of the other nations which wanted this mess but that would be up to them. In no way should the USA get involved in this recovery. We have done enough.
1
Putin is leaving for the precise reason that he stated, that he achieved his goals, and things have worked out exactly as he planned.
Just like team Obama, Putin's strategy was to set up Assad so that he would come to the conclusion that his best option is to end the war with a negotiated settlement. However unlike the pipe dream of a strategy that team Obama were working on for years, Putin, in a matter of months, completely changed the situation to one where Assad has no rational choice other than to stop fighting and start negotiating.
At the time that Putin got involved things were looking very bad for Assad on the battlefield. His army was suffering many defeats and were demoralized, he was about to lose the highway from Damascus to Homs and Aleppo, which would have been a catastrophe for him and negotiations were out of the question for him as he was in a very weak position.
Putin managed to turn things around, giving Assad a secure hold on the major areas that were crucial for Assad's government. Just when things were going his way and Assad wanted to fight it out to the end, Putin forced Assad to agree to a ceasefire and he is not telling him that Russia's fight is over.
He now leaves Assad with the choice of continuing to fight a war he cannot win on his own, or agree to a negotiated settlement, which is the only rational choice.
And once again Putin has upstaged Obama and showed the world who the better world leader is.
Just like team Obama, Putin's strategy was to set up Assad so that he would come to the conclusion that his best option is to end the war with a negotiated settlement. However unlike the pipe dream of a strategy that team Obama were working on for years, Putin, in a matter of months, completely changed the situation to one where Assad has no rational choice other than to stop fighting and start negotiating.
At the time that Putin got involved things were looking very bad for Assad on the battlefield. His army was suffering many defeats and were demoralized, he was about to lose the highway from Damascus to Homs and Aleppo, which would have been a catastrophe for him and negotiations were out of the question for him as he was in a very weak position.
Putin managed to turn things around, giving Assad a secure hold on the major areas that were crucial for Assad's government. Just when things were going his way and Assad wanted to fight it out to the end, Putin forced Assad to agree to a ceasefire and he is not telling him that Russia's fight is over.
He now leaves Assad with the choice of continuing to fight a war he cannot win on his own, or agree to a negotiated settlement, which is the only rational choice.
And once again Putin has upstaged Obama and showed the world who the better world leader is.
5
Why can't WE say our goals have been met & go home?
1
As this article, and a more recent follow-up, suggests, the sudden withdrawal of most Russian forces makes some shrewd points:
1. Russia is still a major military power, which can sway the balance of power in a particular war zone.
2. It possibly sets the tone for Assad to remain, but suggests that he negotiate in a rationale manner with the West.
3. It also reduces the threat of further sanctions on its own economy, which is overly-focused on the energy sector, meaning that its own cash reserves are running dry.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1. Russia is still a major military power, which can sway the balance of power in a particular war zone.
2. It possibly sets the tone for Assad to remain, but suggests that he negotiate in a rationale manner with the West.
3. It also reduces the threat of further sanctions on its own economy, which is overly-focused on the energy sector, meaning that its own cash reserves are running dry.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
3
"The announcement on Monday surprised people on all sides of the conflict. State Department officials" - did J.Kerry quit state department? Or what he was talking about with Lavrov all this time?
To me personally it proves that current USA government policy in ME, including USA president's fatal "red line", is manifestation of complete absence of DECISIVENESS.
To me personally it proves that current USA government policy in ME, including USA president's fatal "red line", is manifestation of complete absence of DECISIVENESS.
3
Now here is a win-win if I ever saw one.
Russians can claim victory and go home.
Here we can claim satisfaction as "we told you so".
I wish life were that simple.
Russians can claim victory and go home.
Here we can claim satisfaction as "we told you so".
I wish life were that simple.
3
The Pentagon should use the Russian operation in Syria as a lesson in how to intervene militarily and achieve your objective, virtually without loss of life of your own personnel, in the space of a few months.
Main lesson - how not to get bogged down in a messy situation.
Main lesson - how not to get bogged down in a messy situation.
2
He is trying to get Trump elected. They are birds of a feather. Trump will claim credit. Soooo transparent.
1
"The Russian move may also be a reflection that Mr. Putin is now " out of money.
3
It sounds like Putin understands the Powell Doctrine far better than Obama does. He backs a winner with decisive force and gets out, while we are still in Syria, still engaged in Libya, still drone bombing Yemen, Somalia and who knows where else, still dithering in Nigeria and Iraq and placating the mullahs in Iran? So Obama mocks Putin and Russia? Sounds like Obama should start learning some lessons in practical use of power and decision making.
5
It's all about $$$.
2
In the face of declining oil revenues, western sanctions and economic mis-management, Russia is trying to raise $3 billion through a bond issue. Both Brussels and Washington are looking at this bond issue with cross eyes as Moscow occupies segments of Ukraine.
Moscow is desperate for that $3 billion and will do anything--temporary--to get the money. Once the bonds are issued; the Russian jets can just decide that the retreat was premature. Let the jets retreat, but don't buy the bonds.
Moscow is desperate for that $3 billion and will do anything--temporary--to get the money. Once the bonds are issued; the Russian jets can just decide that the retreat was premature. Let the jets retreat, but don't buy the bonds.
1
That is ridiculous. $3 billion is mere peanuts for Russia. They have $400 billion in cash reserves. $3 billion is how much Ukraine just refused to pay Russia back on the state loan. That $3 billion bond issue is just a play thing to see how serious western governments are about sanction in the face of potential hundreds of millions in fees for their banks.
What Putin accomplished here is that he stabilized the situation in Syria and put Assad in a situation where he has close to no choice but to negotiate a settlement. Putin put Assad back on firm footing, he now has all the territory that is essential to his government, he has a ceasefire, and Putin left him with two choices. Either continue the war, which five years of fighting shows that it cannot be won militarily, or do the only sensible thing and negotiate, that this is his chance to finally end the war.
There could have been no more effective tactic at forcing Assad to negotiate, and ending the war, than Putin saving Assad from a terrible battlefield situation, and now telling Assad that he is on his own. Compare this to the US strategy to fund an insignificant group of "moderate" rebels, who made no difference on the battlefield as a means to force negotiations.
So once again Putin outmaneuvered Obama and Kerry in regard to Syria. Obama called Putin's intervention folly and that he is entering a quagmire he will not be able to get out of. Turns out what Putin did was anything but folly and showed on the world stage that when it comes to knowing how to utilize military force, how to plan and execute an effective strategy that Putin is in a completely different league than Obama. And thius Putin achieved his ultimate goal.
There could have been no more effective tactic at forcing Assad to negotiate, and ending the war, than Putin saving Assad from a terrible battlefield situation, and now telling Assad that he is on his own. Compare this to the US strategy to fund an insignificant group of "moderate" rebels, who made no difference on the battlefield as a means to force negotiations.
So once again Putin outmaneuvered Obama and Kerry in regard to Syria. Obama called Putin's intervention folly and that he is entering a quagmire he will not be able to get out of. Turns out what Putin did was anything but folly and showed on the world stage that when it comes to knowing how to utilize military force, how to plan and execute an effective strategy that Putin is in a completely different league than Obama. And thius Putin achieved his ultimate goal.
8
With the Russians out of the way its time for the US to bomb Assad and his forces!
572 comments in the most popular newspaper about Mr. Putin move. If the Michelin would have awarded their stars Chiefs of the world policy, Mr. Putin would have been all three a long time ago. And the only one.
3
Putin is leaving, I speculate, because of money (which he has run out of), and clear evidence (of a military without working jets, working guns, or working anything). He was seeking proof of concept; can he match in deeds what his words say about being a superpower. He found, I hypothesize, convincing evidence that military adventurism is outside his scope. I.e., his planes fell out of the sky, his guns jammed, his war machines clogged up, and he found nothing produced in Russia functioned as it was supposed to function. So before the whole world finds that out, he is leaving.
Now watch him go back to Russia and stop being a total nuisance for a while.
Kalidan
Now watch him go back to Russia and stop being a total nuisance for a while.
Kalidan
1
It is hard to guess what game Putin is playing now. Is he sincere? Is this a gesture towards the opposition? Is this to pressure Assad?
Fact is that ISIS indeed is greatly reduced. It is estimated that its number of fighters has been halved. And just a few days ago it withdrew voluntarily from some Iraqi cities, including Hit, signalling weakness. This is not only Putin's merit but he certainly played the most important role.
Putin is a very skilled strategist. He could easily have had the encirclement of Aleppo completed. He hasn't, probably estimating that leaving the threat hanging may do more to achieve his goals - and with less costs and damage. Similarly, by opening the option of withdrawal he has created a situation where he can reward both sides.
Fact is that ISIS indeed is greatly reduced. It is estimated that its number of fighters has been halved. And just a few days ago it withdrew voluntarily from some Iraqi cities, including Hit, signalling weakness. This is not only Putin's merit but he certainly played the most important role.
Putin is a very skilled strategist. He could easily have had the encirclement of Aleppo completed. He hasn't, probably estimating that leaving the threat hanging may do more to achieve his goals - and with less costs and damage. Similarly, by opening the option of withdrawal he has created a situation where he can reward both sides.
"But Russia remains mindful of its history of getting bogged down in a long war in Afghanistan in the 1980s..." If this is actually a reason for Russia's withdrawal--and who knows if it is--one has to hand it to Putin for a clear-headed decision; something the troika of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld failed to do by ignoring the lessons of Vietnam while forging ahead with its invasion of Iraq. Things might be quite different today had they done a little homework instead of fabricating justifications for blowing up the Middle East.
1
The American Left seems to be in the grip of a kind of magical thinking. If Obama just does nothing a little bit longer then everything will be alright, Putin will see the light and Syria will sort itself out. Things look a little different viewed from Europe.
Putin declaring "mission accomplished" is yet another two fingers to the international community. It is the same as what he did in Ukraine - barge into a foreign country and kill its citizens with impunity. Indeed in Syria he was doing this with the blessing of the UN security council.
Putin has helped prolong the human misery in Syria and helped increase the flow of refugees coming to Europe. At the same time Russia is providing funding to far right parties across Europe to try and further destabilize the social structure here. And sadly he is succeeding.
Obama decided early on in his presidency that Europe and the Middle East were not priorities for him and that he wanted to concentrate his efforts on the Asia Pacific region. History can decide if that was a wise decision but at some point what is going on in Europe will be the world's problem. There are likely to be tens of millions of political and climatic refugees fleeing the Arab world in years to come. If we want to avoid the 2030s looking like the 1930s then we in the West - and that includes America - need to start putting in place a serious framework for resettling them. And need to be equally serious about addressing the underlying causes.
Putin declaring "mission accomplished" is yet another two fingers to the international community. It is the same as what he did in Ukraine - barge into a foreign country and kill its citizens with impunity. Indeed in Syria he was doing this with the blessing of the UN security council.
Putin has helped prolong the human misery in Syria and helped increase the flow of refugees coming to Europe. At the same time Russia is providing funding to far right parties across Europe to try and further destabilize the social structure here. And sadly he is succeeding.
Obama decided early on in his presidency that Europe and the Middle East were not priorities for him and that he wanted to concentrate his efforts on the Asia Pacific region. History can decide if that was a wise decision but at some point what is going on in Europe will be the world's problem. There are likely to be tens of millions of political and climatic refugees fleeing the Arab world in years to come. If we want to avoid the 2030s looking like the 1930s then we in the West - and that includes America - need to start putting in place a serious framework for resettling them. And need to be equally serious about addressing the underlying causes.
2
Remember the phrase "Crazy Ivan" that was popular in the Cold War? Same thing this time, and crazy like a fox.
why is everybody so proud of Obama's agenda? wasn't he the guy of "Assad must go"? Someone tell him that Assad is still there and that US plan to use "rebels" against him failed.
3
Read this entire column again, just substituting the Russia for America and Iraq for Afghanistan. It reads the exact same to someone from Russia's point of view. We are very much the same.
1
Remember the red line? Putin has made Obama look like an even bigger fool!
Take a look at the Syrian rebel held cities after the Russian bombing. Why would the people who we call allies ever trust us?
We are going to stop ISIS with allied help. Are you kidding me? Look at what Jeeps with machine guns mounted on top did to our Iraq trained and armed army.
We know how to fight but we don't know how to lead or win!
Take a look at the Syrian rebel held cities after the Russian bombing. Why would the people who we call allies ever trust us?
We are going to stop ISIS with allied help. Are you kidding me? Look at what Jeeps with machine guns mounted on top did to our Iraq trained and armed army.
We know how to fight but we don't know how to lead or win!
2
Nothing happens with Putin unexpectedly, Chess moves are always premeditated. I was hoping with their coverage of Putin for so long Neil and Anne would know that and would have looked at some other possibilities re Syria and Putin.
1
Again we see an example of the underestimation of Obama.This Russian action in the context of the Goldberg piece in the Atlantic Monthly is stricking.
Putin's decision to pull out of Russia is quite a surprise to all. What led to Putin's decision to withdraw is unknown to all except his inner circle. We can only speculate as to why pull out now?
Most likely, this premature pull out can point to Russia's weakness. Most likely Russia's economy could not support this air campaign or else, why not leverage your hard won gains. It also demonstrates that Russia is an unreliable partner. Now what happens to Assad and his allies and how rebels and the countries that support it will react.
Or the world awaits another Putin surprise.
Most likely, this premature pull out can point to Russia's weakness. Most likely Russia's economy could not support this air campaign or else, why not leverage your hard won gains. It also demonstrates that Russia is an unreliable partner. Now what happens to Assad and his allies and how rebels and the countries that support it will react.
Or the world awaits another Putin surprise.
It is no longer in Russia's interests to support a savage Assad that has made his armies kill his own people. Why would an army follow the orders of a single man to kill their own people? It just seems like the ultimate ignorance to me.
You bought this canard in its entirety. Assad was acceptable (and his father too) for decades. The CIA even benefited from the ruthlessness of his secret police by sending undesirables there to be tortured.
Assad simply did, what any (I repeat: ANY) government would have done to keep and restore order, when an armed uprising emerges.
Remember, that even Canada (the most peaceful nation on Earth) invoked the War Measures Act against the FLQ.
Assad simply did, what any (I repeat: ANY) government would have done to keep and restore order, when an armed uprising emerges.
Remember, that even Canada (the most peaceful nation on Earth) invoked the War Measures Act against the FLQ.
2
We go into situations like this and stay for 15 years. Putin stays for 5 months. Mission accomplished? I don't think so. Ran out of money - more likely'
Unlike a certain other world superpower, Russia appears to believe a military engagement should have not only a beginning, but also an end.
Russia's stated goal has been to strengthen Assad, not to defeat ISIS. It's been up front about that all along, and it apparently believes it's accomplished that. I'm surprised Russia is pulling out this soon, but if it's finished, it's finished.
Besides, I suspect Russia plans to leave considerable hardware in Syria, especially in the form of Russian military planes to be piloted by Syrians who've undoubtedly been well-trained by the Russians over the past six months or so. And if it turns out Assad needs more help than that, I have little doubt that Putin will come right back. He'd prefer not to, of course, since that would amount to a concession that his pull-out was premature, but he'll come back anyway: He cares more about winning the real war than about winning some PR war.
Will the US declare a no-fly zone once Russia leaves? Maybe, but Russia would not put up with that. With or without shiny new Russian planes, Assad intends have his air force keep flying around Syria, just as it did before the Russians moved in. I can't imagine Russia would just sit back and allow the US to stop Assad from doing that, especially if that threatened to undo everything Russia accomplished while it was there.
Russia's stated goal has been to strengthen Assad, not to defeat ISIS. It's been up front about that all along, and it apparently believes it's accomplished that. I'm surprised Russia is pulling out this soon, but if it's finished, it's finished.
Besides, I suspect Russia plans to leave considerable hardware in Syria, especially in the form of Russian military planes to be piloted by Syrians who've undoubtedly been well-trained by the Russians over the past six months or so. And if it turns out Assad needs more help than that, I have little doubt that Putin will come right back. He'd prefer not to, of course, since that would amount to a concession that his pull-out was premature, but he'll come back anyway: He cares more about winning the real war than about winning some PR war.
Will the US declare a no-fly zone once Russia leaves? Maybe, but Russia would not put up with that. With or without shiny new Russian planes, Assad intends have his air force keep flying around Syria, just as it did before the Russians moved in. I can't imagine Russia would just sit back and allow the US to stop Assad from doing that, especially if that threatened to undo everything Russia accomplished while it was there.
3
After recklessly/ruthlessly bombing Syrian civilization to oblivion, killing tens and thousands of innocent children and women, 'west'/US is accomplice to Russian horrendous atrocities committed in the name of 'peace'...Putin walks away triumphantly declaring Russian withdrawal and putting a permanent dent into US super power status. Bashar Ul Assad, the junior Pol Pot, is over the moon for keeping his control of Syria and a turnaround of Syrian 'war' which he had almost lost. Syrian folks were/are 'secularist' and 'modernistic', they took the courage to rebel against the despotic rule of Assad getting inspiration from Obama Arab spring Speech in Cairo five years back. From 'crossing redline rhetoric' to supplies of small weapons; US/'west' betrayed Syrians big time. In the guise of finishing off Da'esh, Russia has eliminated all the democratic loving opposition in Syria while Da'esh is still well entrenched. Enormous Syrian blood has been spilled with massive bombing/cluster bombs and missile attacks by Russian war machine igniting a refugee crisis in 'middle east' and Europe. Russia is cowardly trying to run away to save its soldiers on the ground, they have already lost a plane in Egypt. The ripples of Russian invasion in Syria will spread to Russia's mainland and they have to pay a price for committing crimes against humanity. And shame for 'west'/US for giving this larger than life status to Putin. And sponsoring Munich peace talks is like flagging the dead horse!!!
1
Without outside (read: Western, or Western-backed) interference by tinpots, like Erdogan and Salman, there would not have been a Syrian civil war. The demonstrations 5 years ago, would have been quelled (not pretty, but necessary).
It's that simple.
It's that simple.
2
"I suspect that this withdrawal is partial and that [Russia's] air force is waiting to pounce when the opportunity presents itself."
Maybe you're right, but I doubt it.
I have little doubt Russia will come back if need be, but that would be a bit embarrassing since it would thereby concede it had pulled out too quickly this time. My hunch is that Putin simply thinks Assad can handle it from here -- especially with the help of several dozen shiny new Russian military plans that I'm confident the Russians will be leaving behind.
Maybe you're right, but I doubt it.
I have little doubt Russia will come back if need be, but that would be a bit embarrassing since it would thereby concede it had pulled out too quickly this time. My hunch is that Putin simply thinks Assad can handle it from here -- especially with the help of several dozen shiny new Russian military plans that I'm confident the Russians will be leaving behind.
3
All of you guys ignore the second and even more important part of Putin’s strategy. During last two weeks 42 rebel factions signed the ceasefire accord and agreed to participate in the political process. Russian airforce stopped bombing them and directed massive humanitarian aid to the population of those areas that seized fighting. Three days ago, about 1000 representatives of these rebel groups and the government gathered in one conference hall for a peace conference. They agreed and intent to rewrite the constitution and hold elections. For the first time in five years people who were killing each other began to talk. Government forces meanwhile are on offensive against those who keep on fighting. That’s why the wrapping up of Russian military operation became possible.
4
Putin's decision to pull out of Russia is quite a surprise to all. What led to Putin's decision to withdraw is unknown to all except his inner circle. We can only speculate as to why pull out now?
Most likely, this premature pull out can point to Russia's weakness. Most likely Russia's economy could not support this air campaign or else, why not leverage your hard won gains. It also demonstrates that Russia is an unreliable partner. Now what happens to Assad and his allies and how rebels and the countries that support it will react.
Or the world awaits another Putin surprise.
Most likely, this premature pull out can point to Russia's weakness. Most likely Russia's economy could not support this air campaign or else, why not leverage your hard won gains. It also demonstrates that Russia is an unreliable partner. Now what happens to Assad and his allies and how rebels and the countries that support it will react.
Or the world awaits another Putin surprise.
Nothing has changed. Al nusra remains viable. ISIS remains in a couple of Syrian holes, with its rapes and its murders. Assad remains in his palace. Putin bids good bye. The fighters fire in the air and thank god. This is surreal. The opposition wants Syria. Assad wants Syria. ISIS wants Syria. Putin wants Assad in, the West out, ISIS out and Al Nusra out. Iran and Hezbollah want Assad in. We want Assad and ISIS out. Al Nusra wants Assad and ISIS out. Assad wants Al Nusra and ISIS out. Assad and Al Nusra want ISIS out. ISIS wants Assad, the West, Putin and al Nusra out. Now Putin wants out because money has run out. This is called a fragile truce? I call it LUNACY.
1
So let me guess, the time is near as to whether the Europeans lift sanctions or extend them? I hope the Europeans are dumb enough to fall for this one.
1
A desperate attempt on part of yet another desperate 'defender of Ukraine'.
Clean up your own mess at home first. Learn to behave, like an adult and change your ways, instead of always (ALWAYS) trying to blame others.
Clean up your own mess at home first. Learn to behave, like an adult and change your ways, instead of always (ALWAYS) trying to blame others.
2
Just because YOU think this doesn't mean it's correct:
"ISIS must be defeated! ... that's what russia was in syria for right?"
Putin has always made clear that Russia is in Syria to put an end to the war and that, in his view, putting an end to the war means attacking anyone and everyone who opposed Assad, since, in Putin's view, only a strong Assad can end the war. At least publicly, he's never said he's guaranteeing that Assad can stay long-term -- only that he's going to help Assad win this war and then the Syrian people can decide.
You may disagree with Putin's view of how the war can be ended, or with his support of Assad, and you may think Putin is deceitful. That's your right. And maybe Putin is deceitful, even though I've seen no evidence of that so far. But the critics' insistence that Russia focus on ISIS doesn't mean that Putin is wrong not to focus on ISIS. It just means Putin has a different view from yours of how best to end the war. And, frankly, it's looking more and more like Putin is right.
But most important is this: Whether Putin is correct or not about how best to end the war, he's done exactly what he said he was going to do: bolster Assad by attacking ALL of Assad's enemies, including ISIS but not limited to ISIS.
"ISIS must be defeated! ... that's what russia was in syria for right?"
Putin has always made clear that Russia is in Syria to put an end to the war and that, in his view, putting an end to the war means attacking anyone and everyone who opposed Assad, since, in Putin's view, only a strong Assad can end the war. At least publicly, he's never said he's guaranteeing that Assad can stay long-term -- only that he's going to help Assad win this war and then the Syrian people can decide.
You may disagree with Putin's view of how the war can be ended, or with his support of Assad, and you may think Putin is deceitful. That's your right. And maybe Putin is deceitful, even though I've seen no evidence of that so far. But the critics' insistence that Russia focus on ISIS doesn't mean that Putin is wrong not to focus on ISIS. It just means Putin has a different view from yours of how best to end the war. And, frankly, it's looking more and more like Putin is right.
But most important is this: Whether Putin is correct or not about how best to end the war, he's done exactly what he said he was going to do: bolster Assad by attacking ALL of Assad's enemies, including ISIS but not limited to ISIS.
1
Now that's how you avoid a quagmire; keep them guessing. Mission Accomplished!
2
Too soon to tell if this is Putin's last move. Nevertheless, if Bin Laden hadn't been allowed to escape at Tora Bora, the "war on terror" could've ended in a similar way back in 2002.
1
Don't be naive. The US needed to show the world after 9/11 (when 19 hijackers armed with nothing more, than box cutters brought the empire to its knees), that in fact, the emperor is not naked.
Hence the concept of the (never-ending) war on terror was conceived.
Afghanistan, then Iraq were the perfect theaters.
Is the US still in Iraq?
Is the US still in Afghanistan?
Hence the concept of the (never-ending) war on terror was conceived.
Afghanistan, then Iraq were the perfect theaters.
Is the US still in Iraq?
Is the US still in Afghanistan?
Looking back at the last half a century where the two super powers the USA and the USSR trying to be one up on the other has let down the world community in the name of democracy and communism. if only they had joined together in Afghanistan ,Taliban would not have existed in the region. if only they had cooperated in Egypt and now in Syria , Middle East would have been a better place than what it is today. it is a well known fact that President Saddam Hussain and President Assad are less of an evil compared to ISIS, but instead Putin went on his own to control Syrian Rebels while Bush and President Obama were interested in regime change and not in the elimination of iSIS. If only they had put their act together there would have been no tsunami of refugees to Europe and the whole region from Turkey to Afghanistan would have been peaceful, less loss of life and above all would have made positive contribution to the world economy. It was a lost opportunity which would have saved millions of human lives and the world would have been free of terrorism and the peaceful doves would be flying everywhere. The entire blame is on the leaders of the super powers who controlled the UN Security Council for the last 5 decades.
True reality is that Russia air campaign only benefit Asad brutal regime. After Russian air campaign Asad forces got major gains in strong rebel hold areas. Despite several days air campaign ISSL still have strong position in its strong hold Al Raqqa and Al Nusrah is still operating in several parts of Syria. Killing of Innocent civilians, targeting mosques, schools, Markets and civilian residential areas now has become black chapter of Russian war history. True reality is that Russian air campaign and blind support to Syrian President providing nothing except death, destruction and miseries in Syria. More than six thousand civilian killed due to Russian air strikes and things are going bad to worse.
2
reading the comments, you get the impression the Russians were so badly wounded in Syria or their economy is in such disarray that they had to withdraw. In reality, Assad has recovered many lost areas and has momentum on his side, which was Russia's objectives, so while it is surprising and kind of fishy Russia would suddenly withdraw, you can hardly say she was forced to withdraw.
Russia has strong relations with Israel, and the current status quo in Syria (with no side having the upper hand) is the scenario most favorable to Israel. Since the regime is now strong enough to defend the territories under its control, Russia will have their bases in the country and access as needed by the Syrian regime, so their is no need for them to aid the regime in conquering the whole of Syria, and doing so would be disadvantageous to Israel which would rather have a fractured state of affairs so it is less challenged. Hence, Putin may have thought that Russia has gained enough and anymore might hurt its Israeli friend.
Russia has strong relations with Israel, and the current status quo in Syria (with no side having the upper hand) is the scenario most favorable to Israel. Since the regime is now strong enough to defend the territories under its control, Russia will have their bases in the country and access as needed by the Syrian regime, so their is no need for them to aid the regime in conquering the whole of Syria, and doing so would be disadvantageous to Israel which would rather have a fractured state of affairs so it is less challenged. Hence, Putin may have thought that Russia has gained enough and anymore might hurt its Israeli friend.
1
Several commenters insist Putin is running away with his tail between his legs – that he's being crushed by plummeting oil prices, the Ukrainian conflict, the sagging Russian economy, fear that Saudi Arabia and Jordan will send anti-aircraft missiles to the al Nusra rebels, whatever.
I just don't see that. I think those criticisms reflect nothing more than the critics' inability to understand why a foreign power would ever pull back its military once it had set up shop in some Middle Eastern country. After all, the US never does that.
But it looks like Russia will be doing just that. It seems straightforward: Putin came, he explained why, he accomplished what he came to accomplish, and now he's leaving. Our military guys, by contrast, tend to move into a Middle Eastern country and never leave -- there are no past-tense verbs in their vocabulary.
I just don't see that. I think those criticisms reflect nothing more than the critics' inability to understand why a foreign power would ever pull back its military once it had set up shop in some Middle Eastern country. After all, the US never does that.
But it looks like Russia will be doing just that. It seems straightforward: Putin came, he explained why, he accomplished what he came to accomplish, and now he's leaving. Our military guys, by contrast, tend to move into a Middle Eastern country and never leave -- there are no past-tense verbs in their vocabulary.
14
Oh sure, our military are the bad guys. Really, we should all just be put to death for trying to give freedom to sorry bunches of tribes who don't really want freedom. They want their Sharia Law, our Treasury, and to be left alone.
Putin is not a hero to be admired. He's a cold-blooded, calculating oppressive dictator whose country has run into economic trouble. My guess, he wants another sorry U.N. peacekeeping force to come in and foot the bill while he commands from the sidelines. Now, that makes perfect sense.
Putin is not a hero to be admired. He's a cold-blooded, calculating oppressive dictator whose country has run into economic trouble. My guess, he wants another sorry U.N. peacekeeping force to come in and foot the bill while he commands from the sidelines. Now, that makes perfect sense.
Whether he is faking it or this is a genuine withdrawal, Mr Putin is a shrewd operator by recognizing a quagmire when he sees one. Preparing to his "soulmate," President George W Bush, he knows when to quit when there is a chance. And why, Middle East is as messy as ever, and his sole currency, oil, will not fall through the floor, so his cronies controlling the state industries, especially oil, will stay loyal to him. And whoever who try to leave his orbit, he will just use his old KGB method to deal with them.
Putin has achieved "many of his main goals". One of which was to exacerbate the flood of refugees to Europe to help destabilize Europe and Germany in particular.
4
Russia in is what has kept Turkey out.
There cannot be a no-fly zone with Russian aircraft flying around, unless the one declaring the zone is willing to shoot at Russian aircraft.
So when Russia steps back this way, it is an invitation to both, a Turkish ground move against the Syrian Kurds, and a no-fly zone as a haven inside Syria run by the West as base for its insurgency.
Why would Russia invite these things? Quagmire. Ours. Again.
There cannot be a no-fly zone with Russian aircraft flying around, unless the one declaring the zone is willing to shoot at Russian aircraft.
So when Russia steps back this way, it is an invitation to both, a Turkish ground move against the Syrian Kurds, and a no-fly zone as a haven inside Syria run by the West as base for its insurgency.
Why would Russia invite these things? Quagmire. Ours. Again.
2
Interesting, but I'm not sure Russia's pull-out is really an invitation for anyone (such as the US) to declare a no-fly zone. Assad still plans to fly around, after all, and I doubt the Russians consider it acceptable for the US to tell him he can't do that.
2
As in Libya, so in Syria the entire point of a no-fly zone is that Assad can't fly.
That could not be done so long as Russia was flying too in the same space with some of the same aircraft types. Nobody dared tell the Russians they could not fly.
However, once their aircraft leave the country, the Russians don't have the same say about where Assad can fly. They don't like it? So what? We have done a lot of things they don't like, so long as we don't directly fight their forces.
A twist on this could be a Russian no-fly zone, enforced with S-400 missiles now in Syria. They remain. As with American no-fly zones, they might exempt their side, in this case Assad, and only prohibit Saudi, Turkish, etc.
That could not be done so long as Russia was flying too in the same space with some of the same aircraft types. Nobody dared tell the Russians they could not fly.
However, once their aircraft leave the country, the Russians don't have the same say about where Assad can fly. They don't like it? So what? We have done a lot of things they don't like, so long as we don't directly fight their forces.
A twist on this could be a Russian no-fly zone, enforced with S-400 missiles now in Syria. They remain. As with American no-fly zones, they might exempt their side, in this case Assad, and only prohibit Saudi, Turkish, etc.
If the US were to establish a no-fly zone, and Russia simply acquiesced in that, Assad would end up worse off than before the Russians showed up. I can't imagine Putin would tolerate that. He'd either warn the US not to establish a no-fly zone in the first place, or he'd send his planes and pilots back to Syria if we insisted. Then we'd have to decide whether to shoot down Russian planes.
Kudos to Putin and the Russian military. Unlike the US State Dept, Putin had clear objectives which his military pursued effectively and efficiently. That included killing a lot of CIA trained rebels as well as ISIS and Al Queda terrorists. The end result is a more peaceful and stable Syria on the verge of a political solution. This is something the USA could not do in 5 years of allowing the Syrian people to suffer while attempting regime change. To cap it all off, Putin now has the decency to withdraw from Syria. Meanwhile, the USA has troops all over the Middle East in support of its prior failed interventions. One can only hope the Pentagon is taking notes.
12
Putin said he was going into Syria to shore up Assad, and that's what he did. It appears he's left ISIS for the US to handle.
Or not. I vote for "not."
I'd prefer that ISIS not control the desert in eastern Syria and western Iraq, but, frankly, I don't really care much one way or the other. Russia has helped Assad protect the west flank, we can help Iraq and Jordan on the south and east if we're so inclined, and Turkey can handle the north. ISIS can keep the desert in between. If others want to send their kids over there to kick ISIS out, by all means do so. But I don't really care, and I don't think many other Americans do either.
Or not. I vote for "not."
I'd prefer that ISIS not control the desert in eastern Syria and western Iraq, but, frankly, I don't really care much one way or the other. Russia has helped Assad protect the west flank, we can help Iraq and Jordan on the south and east if we're so inclined, and Turkey can handle the north. ISIS can keep the desert in between. If others want to send their kids over there to kick ISIS out, by all means do so. But I don't really care, and I don't think many other Americans do either.
5
The President needs to go for peace to come to Syria. Luckily Obama's term finishes in 10 months. After the Presidential elections there is hope for peace in Syria
2
It is important for Mr Putin to make his point while not pushing too hard to create an excuse or us to go in. Of course, the neoconservative will press for that anyway but...
3
Moscow knows the motives and details involved in this latest move by Russia. So does Washington. At some point, well after the time that it would actually mean something, we'll also know. Until then, as usual, we the public will remain in the dark.
2
Mission accomplished!
"The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop." — Victor Hugo
"The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop." — Victor Hugo
4
Talking about quagmire. It exists only in the eyes of beholders.
If it took two wars to make the US realise the futility and debilitating cost of foreign military interventions and which, in turn, forced Obama to experiment with the doctrine of restraint in foreign policy, it took the futility of the Ukrainian military campaign and the five-months long unending war experience in Syria, compounded by the crushing cost of the falling oil/gas revenue to make Putin search the importance of diplomacy and restraint, hence withdrawal, leaving even the war mission against the ISIS unaccomplished.
2
We really need to come up with better international rules and procedures for dealing with failed states and quagmires like Syria. Because the way things are the mess in Syria will stretch on indefinitely.
1
Russia is so in the hole what with the drop in the price of its major revenue generator, oil, that it can't pay its pensions and workers in mines, factories and farms. The ordinary Russian, I suspect, cares far more about that than how Putin does in Syria.
By not explaining his reasoning, Putin can claim anything he wants when needed.
There's a reason Putin and Trump admire each other; they're both con-men; but why inject politics into war...
By not explaining his reasoning, Putin can claim anything he wants when needed.
There's a reason Putin and Trump admire each other; they're both con-men; but why inject politics into war...
4
Desperate times call for desperate declarations from desperate people.
Clean up the mess at home, before pointing fingers at others.
Clean up the mess at home, before pointing fingers at others.
Again, President Obama's pragmatic long-view prevails. Responding to his critics that he is not as "strong and decisive" as Putin, Obama invited Putin to own the Syrian war if he wanted to. Obama foresaw that the solution was not a super-power military intervention, so he kept America out of the ground war. Putin learned the hard way after months of engagement.
6
Syria has been target practice do many countries. Russia finally had a chance to practice on targets other than civilian and government officials aircrafts.
Perhaps Putin wanted to have things wrapped up so as to participate in Bernie Sander's inauguration celebration. Maybe a planned second honeymoon outside Moscow in a quaint Vermont like dacha for the candidate who doesn't hug for a vote, bear hugs notwithstanding. You know, a la president Obama.."After my election..."
Shall I continue?
Shall I continue?
1
Shall you continue? Consider
1
Russia has simply embraced the winning US strategy in the Vietnam War: Declare victory and go home.
4
Could the real story be as simple as: Iran said it would raise oil exports, continuing to tilt the market with excess supply -> Saudi Arabia says that unless Russia stops supporting Assad, they will keep oil prices low -> Russia correctly accepts that oil prices are more important than supporting a puppet dictator to appease its ally Iran
9
Just in time for a Spring offensive back in Ukraine now that everyone has forgotten about it.
3
Another FECKLESS foreign policy victory for President Obama. Perhaps had Bush/Cheney been as FECKLESS as President Obama has been, nearly 10,000 military members would be alive, and 1000s others would have not suffered life changing wounds. And there would be no ISIS/ISIL.
5
It certainly tears my heart that President Obama isn't worshiped as the avatar of divine wisdom and compassion that he so obviously is. Let us all persevere in prayer that the scales will fall from the eyes of the blind.
Folding a losing hand. He has cashed in Assad, who won't last six months now and would be smart to get out of Syria and find an island where whatever he has stolen can buy lots and lots and lots of Russian bodyguards.
Putin realized with oil at rock bottom, the ruble falling through the bottom and nothing else left in his pocket, that he and his country are broke and can't afford the bombs they've been dropping. So it's cash out time for him and Assad.
Putin realized with oil at rock bottom, the ruble falling through the bottom and nothing else left in his pocket, that he and his country are broke and can't afford the bombs they've been dropping. So it's cash out time for him and Assad.
4
in 2003 USA attacked IRAQ and killed its leader. All based on a lie of Iraq having WMD. IRAQ did not attack the USA. The attack of 9/11 was carried out by 15 Saudi Arabians and the 4 other attackers came from Egypt , Lebenon, and EUA. Not one attacker came from IRAQ.
So where was the USA when Bashar al-Assad attacked his people in 2011 and killed hundreds thousands and created millions of refugees.. The hypocrisy of US foreign policy beggars belief.
So where was the USA when Bashar al-Assad attacked his people in 2011 and killed hundreds thousands and created millions of refugees.. The hypocrisy of US foreign policy beggars belief.
3
Assad never insulted George W. Bush's father.
1
Clearly, the threat to deliver loads of anti-aircraft missiles into the hands of nusra front and other rebel groups by saudi arabia, Turkey and Jordan forced a domestically weakened (due to low oil prices) Putin from hightailing it out of there.
With such low oil prices undermining his ability to buy off opponents, Putin cannot afford to have images/videos of his aircraft shot down each night on RT and his other state-controlled TV outlets - so he took his ball and went home. Now assad is on his own, as iran just pulled out their remaining troops, leaving only 800 or so "advisors."
The rebels are going to now make a MAJOR push to finally rid the world of the diseased, criminal assad regime - and if there is any justice - he will be hanged either in the Hague or from the nearest lampost.
With such low oil prices undermining his ability to buy off opponents, Putin cannot afford to have images/videos of his aircraft shot down each night on RT and his other state-controlled TV outlets - so he took his ball and went home. Now assad is on his own, as iran just pulled out their remaining troops, leaving only 800 or so "advisors."
The rebels are going to now make a MAJOR push to finally rid the world of the diseased, criminal assad regime - and if there is any justice - he will be hanged either in the Hague or from the nearest lampost.
2
Sorry, I don't have time to read through all 520 posts to see if someone has effectively read between the lines post haste. I'm packing it all in on my way to live in London next Monday, which, according to reports two days old, is expecting terrorist threats on soft targets .. could it be Moscow was actually in the scope of ISIS militants? There are four degrees of separation between them & it explains a whole helluva lot while keeping the public, as usual, in the dark. TallyHo!
1
It’s obvious that now the conglomerate of Saudi Wahhabi, islamist Turkey and U.S. trained militias will push not to fight ISIS but take positions against the government of Assad and try to dislodge and achieve the last secular regime the only one able to consolidate together Sunnis, Alawites, Shi’ites and most importantly the Christians who are besieged everywhere else,..
4
What happens next, would be more interest to see. US has complained loudly on the sideline about the Russian intervention that it only helps prop up the Assad regime. But what has US done really to help or hurt the situation? And to be honest, I don't even want to use US to get drawn in to the Syrian conflict anyways. So, complaint as it might be, Putin has actually provided much needed cover to the Obama administration, providing the intervention in Syria that US has been unable to do in the first place. In the end, whether the Assad regime is propped up (albeit temporarily) or not, the end goal is really to beat back ISIL, as both US and Russia have wanted to see. Whether Assad goes or stays has almost become a moot point, no matter what rebels (whoever they might be) say.
No doubt Russia doesn't want to repeat its very painful lesson in Afghanistan in the decades past. With Putin washing his hands now, what would become of Syria, should Assad start failing again? Perhaps the fact that Turkey starts bombing the Kurds (thanks to the recent bombing in Ankara) could help alleviate the mess.
Yes, mess it is indeed. Just reading the news from that region is exhausting enough already.
No doubt Russia doesn't want to repeat its very painful lesson in Afghanistan in the decades past. With Putin washing his hands now, what would become of Syria, should Assad start failing again? Perhaps the fact that Turkey starts bombing the Kurds (thanks to the recent bombing in Ankara) could help alleviate the mess.
Yes, mess it is indeed. Just reading the news from that region is exhausting enough already.
1
Yet another failed state in a region of the world where such troubled nations are the rule and not the exception. The region will continue to give rise to Islamic extremist groups the way infectious tissue gives rise to necrotizing fasciitis. Nothing less than turning this zombie nation into an atmospheric nuclear proving ground will stop the radicalization of every male in the country.
2
Wouldn't it be nice to have a leader like Vladimir Putin. Someone who acts on well defined goals and knows when he has reached them.
6
You need not lament - you can relocate to Russia.
6
Please: move to Russia, so that you might not deprive yourself of basking in the glow, and undoubtedly better lifestyle Mr Putin offers you.
While you're there, when you inevitably discover some aspects of his regime objectionable, perhaps even negatively impacting you personally (well, anything's possible!) instigate a protest with some like minded citizens to vocally call for a change to the perceived injustice.
Please get back to us on how well that works for you.
(One thing you can count on: he and his underlings will certainly be decisive, which I'm sure will please you . . .)
While you're there, when you inevitably discover some aspects of his regime objectionable, perhaps even negatively impacting you personally (well, anything's possible!) instigate a protest with some like minded citizens to vocally call for a change to the perceived injustice.
Please get back to us on how well that works for you.
(One thing you can count on: he and his underlings will certainly be decisive, which I'm sure will please you . . .)
4
Yea, and when your pesky political opponents get in your way? Just have them murdered or throw them in prison. That's what I call real leadership.
3
Or maybe he made a deal with the Saudi's to prop up oil prices.
3
I agree wholeheartedly with roark. My only comment would be that Putin is also motivated by money. Putin must constantly focus on the return for his investment. The "something else going on" roark likely involves money made or saved.
Let us see if the Russian MISSION ACCOMPLISHED is really going to last. Assad seems to have received just enough support to get back on his feet. Time for America and western Europe to be great again and help rebuild Syria, Libya. Yemen and Iraq so that the migrants and refugees can safely return to their motherlands. Important lesson don't attempt any more regime change or allow escalation of conflicts.The west should have worked with the Russians in the first place before arming the rebels who emerged as ISIS and Al Qaeda and the miserable devastation and a humanitarian crisis of epic proportion.
2
It got too expensive. The ruble is way down. The price of oil, from which Russia runs its government, has plummeted from $120 to around $38. Russia manufactures almost nothing that the world wants to buy, except a few weapons. The Russians can't afford to spend millions to continue bombing Syria. But the Syrians and others will never forget that Putin engaged in indiscriminate bombing and supported the dictator/torturer Assad.
2
As the price of oil plummeted, Putin probably realized Russia could not afford this chest beating venture in the long term. The cease fire may have just provided a convenient, clean exit in which he can claim "mission accomplished".
But if the true mission was to become more geopolitically relevant, revel in keeping the west off-balance while also raising his support domestically...his mission may have truly been accomplished. With Putin you never really know.
But if the true mission was to become more geopolitically relevant, revel in keeping the west off-balance while also raising his support domestically...his mission may have truly been accomplished. With Putin you never really know.
2
It's just a tactical retreat in order to improve Assad's position at the negotiating table. There is still a naval and an air base, more than necesary to resume the shelling once, as it will happen, the peace talks fail.
3
Within a scant few hours after the announcement the author managed to contact 10+ people all over the world in different timezones? Really?
As for the withdrawal itself, as Staffan de Mistura said "there is no Plan B. Plan B is full scale war."
So, if the Russians, with this withdrawal manage to nudge all sides closer to a negotiated settlement, and if that will bring an end to the civil war, the Syrians and others in the region will thank Mr. Putin, not the West.
If
As for the withdrawal itself, as Staffan de Mistura said "there is no Plan B. Plan B is full scale war."
So, if the Russians, with this withdrawal manage to nudge all sides closer to a negotiated settlement, and if that will bring an end to the civil war, the Syrians and others in the region will thank Mr. Putin, not the West.
If
Your supposed incredulity at a reporter being in contact with 10 talking heads in several hours betrays your real aim, to buttress Putin.
ISIS must be defeated! As that's what russia was in syria for right?
Not really. Only delusional nations will fight terrorists. Normal nations will fight states. In case of Syria, Russia went to support their ally to help clear out the actors that threaten the state.
4
Putin showed Obama how to win a war. How the US used to win wars before the crybabies took over. You win wars by killing more of "them" than they kill of "us." And do it without mercy. That's war as practiced by victors throughout history. Way to go - Vlad.
2
Yeah, that worked real well in Vietnam and for the Soviets in Afghanistan...
4
Actually, victory often comes at the price of losing more of your men than the other side. The USSR lost far more civilians and soldiers than did the Germans. The Union lost far more soldiers than the Confederates. War is about achieving objectives; video games are about blasting more opponents.
4
Exactly what did Putin win here? It's clear that, if anything ,he left as big a messy civil war as when he arrived.
3
Per Vox media, "Take this announcement with a grain of salt. According to Putin, there are no Russian troops in Ukraine, either. (And there are definitely Russian troops in Ukraine.)" In Russia every grain of truth is surrounded with so much nonsense that the truth becomes unrecognizable while pro-Putin RT disinformation is repeated until it starts to sound true. Reminding me of a certain political party in the US for the last 30 years. And serious people ask, "how did Trump happen?"
1
First and foremost this is an economic move. The foreign reserves are melting away and paying for a protracted war to help Assad reconquer all of the lands is not economically viable for Putin. No doubt he is also applying some pressure on Assad. Putin would like a political settlement.
But there is another, more subtle reason. The military pressure is building again in the eastern Ukraine as the Ukrainian military is stepping into the "neutral" buffer zones and is taking the fight to the demoralized "separatists". Putin cant sustain two active conflicts. He may be retrenching to resume his clandestine war in Donbass. He has staked a lot more political capital there than in Syria. Stay tuned for new escalations in the eastern Ukraine.
But there is another, more subtle reason. The military pressure is building again in the eastern Ukraine as the Ukrainian military is stepping into the "neutral" buffer zones and is taking the fight to the demoralized "separatists". Putin cant sustain two active conflicts. He may be retrenching to resume his clandestine war in Donbass. He has staked a lot more political capital there than in Syria. Stay tuned for new escalations in the eastern Ukraine.
5
so Putin came, he saw, he is partially leaving (Airforce remains).........and Assad is NOT going and there was no "quagmire".......hmmm!
so much for the colonialists: USA / UK / France / Germany / SA & the Turkey - Erdogan.
Hezbollah & Iran can pick up the slack with no stretch now that Aleppo is in the can
Obama's 5 guys he trained for $500 million are ready to be shipped out Mission Accomplished
ask Hillary - whats next up for invasion
so much for the colonialists: USA / UK / France / Germany / SA & the Turkey - Erdogan.
Hezbollah & Iran can pick up the slack with no stretch now that Aleppo is in the can
Obama's 5 guys he trained for $500 million are ready to be shipped out Mission Accomplished
ask Hillary - whats next up for invasion
9
Putin seems to have turned the tide to his ally's favor. His policy might not prove a success, but will likely be seen as wiser than our trying to support "moderate" rebels. Order is important, and those cultures have no democratic traditions. Look at all our failures over there, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya.
Our naivete has pretty well wrecked that part of the world. If those outfits ever get anything going, it will only be because of exposure to the civilized world via television, movies and other communication. It will take decades, even if they manage to shed Islam. If not, it will likely never happen. Too bad Russia doesn't have the money to carry on.
Our naivete has pretty well wrecked that part of the world. If those outfits ever get anything going, it will only be because of exposure to the civilized world via television, movies and other communication. It will take decades, even if they manage to shed Islam. If not, it will likely never happen. Too bad Russia doesn't have the money to carry on.
1
I would be curious to hear from our friends in the military if it is possible to announce a withdrawal to the Defense Minister one day, and begin that withdrawal the next.
Meanwhile, if this is the real deal, we can hope that the Russians, in their quest for international recognition, will henceforth engage in more productive ventures, such as the Syrian intervention, and fewer escapades like in Ukraine. That would something we could all welcome and give credit for.
Meanwhile, if this is the real deal, we can hope that the Russians, in their quest for international recognition, will henceforth engage in more productive ventures, such as the Syrian intervention, and fewer escapades like in Ukraine. That would something we could all welcome and give credit for.
Is Russia really pulling out of Syria? Are they Syrious?
If they really do, I will feel bad for the many pundits who had predicted right at the beginning and were ardently hoping that Russia will meet its Vietnam+Iraq in Syria.
If they pull out now, before they have met those goals, these pundits will be sorely disappointed.
If they really do, I will feel bad for the many pundits who had predicted right at the beginning and were ardently hoping that Russia will meet its Vietnam+Iraq in Syria.
If they pull out now, before they have met those goals, these pundits will be sorely disappointed.
Russia's unexpected military withdraw from Syria reminds me of Senator George Aiken, Republican of Vermont, famous solution to end the Vietnam war: " Declare victory and get out."
Lyndon Johnson did not listen the Vermont senator. Vladimir Putin, on the other hand, did listen his foreign minister Sergey Lavrov.
Lyndon Johnson did not listen the Vermont senator. Vladimir Putin, on the other hand, did listen his foreign minister Sergey Lavrov.
8
When Russia pulls out, the USA should follow close behind.
And then re-direct those billions and trillions to their own unemployed and homeless families and children, their crumbling infrastructure, their poisonous water supply, to solving California's water crisis, to combat climate change, etc etc etc. Millions of people don't have safe water to drink or bathe in because their ruling class prefers to spend trillions of dollars bombing other families in countries they couldn't even place on a map.
And then re-direct those billions and trillions to their own unemployed and homeless families and children, their crumbling infrastructure, their poisonous water supply, to solving California's water crisis, to combat climate change, etc etc etc. Millions of people don't have safe water to drink or bathe in because their ruling class prefers to spend trillions of dollars bombing other families in countries they couldn't even place on a map.
7
So Putin fixed it in 6 months after Team Obama wasted 5 years?
5
Now that Putin is scaling down after bombing of the rebels, we can join hands with our terrorist sponsoring buddies, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to re-arm these same rebels so we can kill another quarter of a million people over the next 5 years. Wait till Clinton gets into office, I reckon 50k US boots on the ground by 2018.
4
I love it. Reagan defeated the USSR economically and fracking , I.e. $30 oil, American free enterprise, is defeating Putin. Be proud America. Be proud.
2
Putin used the American tactic of declaring victory and getting out (Vietnam). The question is why don't we? Talk about quagmires and throwing good money after bad.
3
Congratulations to the Russian people, President Putin and the Syrian people. You corrected the horrific failure of the Obama/Clinton Syria policy which resulted in the deaths of many and the displacement of multitudes. On behalf of the Korean American people who prefer peace and who abhor he spread of Islamic terrorists, I offer my thanks.
3
A smart decision by Mr. Putin. He has a strategic brain; unlike the American establishment idea of creating democracy and other non-sense in foreign lands, he places Russian strategic interest as major factor in the table. Syria asked for help, so he fulfilled the commitment as an ally. No more no less, smashing the Syrian Rebels, he pulls out. Of course, he made a fool of the so-called "international politics intellectuals", who often write editorials and columns in major newspapers including this one. Those intellectuals, who have no idea how international politics works, predicted that Russia will face similar American problems in the Middle East. He would have if Putin had dogmatic ideas of spreading democracies, but Putin bases his ideas on strategic thinking, not on values and ideals, which have no place in international poltiics. I would say American leaders need to learn a lot from this kind of strategic thinking, lest they will have more useless prolonged wars for no reason.
5
Russia can't afford to stay in Syria and it has costed that country billions. Obama told Putin this when he went there. A victory for Obama.
3
A very simplistic conclusion. Again, you make the same mistake of delusional thinking that has wrecked the American administration for more than a decade. It has cost lives and billions of dollars. Okay let us go by your logic, even if we take that logical path,why should Russian military stay there after a peace deal accepted by Syria, Russia, and America is in enforcement. I don't know why Putin or any power should be staying there if the job is done. Yes, Putin lack the resources that America has, but it doesn't mean a nation has to spend their resources lavishly like post-Afghan and post- Iraq wars. I don't get it. If a job is done and a desired objective is achieved, then why should you waste time and resource there. This is strategic thinking. But delusional ideas of spreading democracy and human rights has a improvident logic, which I have no idea. Finally, Putin just accepts whatever Obama recommends. Seriously give me a break you make me laugh.
4
I'm sure you are laughing on the other side of your face.
Military intervention on this scale involves tremendous ignorance of the pain, suffering, and want of the basics to the innocent citizenry exposed.
Where is your heart? You say it's all a calculated gambit for strategic power; something like emergency surgery for a ruptured appendicitis episode.
Look, you want to learn about WAR?? Go to where it's happening Karthy!!
It ain't no chess game. It is a horror story; you become the hunted.
More than likely Putin decided that he would rather not give Trump any more ammo to bolster the defense of the USA from those heathen communist Ruskies AND get elected to kick his butt.
That analysis would be even more sanguine than your savage view that Putin did not back down from the powers that be. He did!
Thank goodness that our great president Barack Hussein Obama had the forbearance to comprehend Putin's feeble gestures and let him wear himself out. But without Trump we would not have his withdrawal.
So that should solidify your thesis and you would probably vote for Trump. His resources will allow overkill; perhaps even annihilation.
He will combat evil with evil and sell his soul to the devil for populous power. So hook up with him, he may have a place for you in the new Inquisition chamber.
Will that suffice?
Military intervention on this scale involves tremendous ignorance of the pain, suffering, and want of the basics to the innocent citizenry exposed.
Where is your heart? You say it's all a calculated gambit for strategic power; something like emergency surgery for a ruptured appendicitis episode.
Look, you want to learn about WAR?? Go to where it's happening Karthy!!
It ain't no chess game. It is a horror story; you become the hunted.
More than likely Putin decided that he would rather not give Trump any more ammo to bolster the defense of the USA from those heathen communist Ruskies AND get elected to kick his butt.
That analysis would be even more sanguine than your savage view that Putin did not back down from the powers that be. He did!
Thank goodness that our great president Barack Hussein Obama had the forbearance to comprehend Putin's feeble gestures and let him wear himself out. But without Trump we would not have his withdrawal.
So that should solidify your thesis and you would probably vote for Trump. His resources will allow overkill; perhaps even annihilation.
He will combat evil with evil and sell his soul to the devil for populous power. So hook up with him, he may have a place for you in the new Inquisition chamber.
Will that suffice?
How about that, eh? A military that says up front what it's going to do, does it, and then pulls out.
Contrast that with our military clowns, who set up shop in Afghanistan nearly 15 years ago and show no signs of getting ready to pull out. If you doubt that, by the way, just fire up Google Earth and type "Bagram, Afghanistan" in the search window. I've done this off and on about 50 times in the last 15 years, and that air base is bigger and bigger every time I do.
I highly recommend that exercise. When you're done, ask yourself frankly: "Is the US military going to be pulling out of Afghanistan any time soon?" (In this century, for example)?
Contrast that with our military clowns, who set up shop in Afghanistan nearly 15 years ago and show no signs of getting ready to pull out. If you doubt that, by the way, just fire up Google Earth and type "Bagram, Afghanistan" in the search window. I've done this off and on about 50 times in the last 15 years, and that air base is bigger and bigger every time I do.
I highly recommend that exercise. When you're done, ask yourself frankly: "Is the US military going to be pulling out of Afghanistan any time soon?" (In this century, for example)?
8
Putin has always been an incalculable political and strategic master in surprising and unpredictable situations.
Putin is almost as smart as Donald Trump (another strategic genius,) but Putin is not as experienced in the "capitalist world" as Trump.
Answering Putin is another reason why the clumsy, power-hungry candidacy (with the most scandalous record of poor judgements and duplicity,) ought not be given the presidency; Hillary must be stopped!
Hillary's continuation of amateurish scandals is easily predicted, and her complete inability to predict her monumental failures is a danger to this nation.
Putin is almost as smart as Donald Trump (another strategic genius,) but Putin is not as experienced in the "capitalist world" as Trump.
Answering Putin is another reason why the clumsy, power-hungry candidacy (with the most scandalous record of poor judgements and duplicity,) ought not be given the presidency; Hillary must be stopped!
Hillary's continuation of amateurish scandals is easily predicted, and her complete inability to predict her monumental failures is a danger to this nation.
2
NYT keeps referring to terrorists as, "rebels."
At first I thought this was an article published in The Onion. Then the sad reality sank in. Not funny.
At first I thought this was an article published in The Onion. Then the sad reality sank in. Not funny.
5
Perhaps Putin has come to understand there are "few good guys" in the Middle East and wants to avoid the expense both in hard costs and political unknowns.
Russia did fight in Afghanistan for over 12 years. (Counting Russia's involvement plus the US, a total of almost 30 years of continuous war-no wonder the people of Afghanistan want only peace regardless of who provides it..)
What if Assad is displaced..What will be the political dimension then. The west has not done well with decisions in the Middle East and our experience just in Iraq was the beginning of what is and will be endless killing.
Iraq is finished as a country..so what will come next?
Lieutenant Colonel/US Army
Iraq/2005;Afgh/2003; Horn of Africa/2002,2008,2010
Russia did fight in Afghanistan for over 12 years. (Counting Russia's involvement plus the US, a total of almost 30 years of continuous war-no wonder the people of Afghanistan want only peace regardless of who provides it..)
What if Assad is displaced..What will be the political dimension then. The west has not done well with decisions in the Middle East and our experience just in Iraq was the beginning of what is and will be endless killing.
Iraq is finished as a country..so what will come next?
Lieutenant Colonel/US Army
Iraq/2005;Afgh/2003; Horn of Africa/2002,2008,2010
1
It seems unfair -- if the Russians pull back, who will we have left to blame for our doing essentially nothing to fight ISIS?
Maybe we should trot out some the old "usual suspects." Khomeini and Qaddafi, for example – i know they're both dead, but can't we still blame them? How about Saddam Hussein, for that matter? Maybe best of all – how about "acid rain" -- remember that one?
In a pinch, I guess we could go back to blaming Assad. Somehow, though, that just seems too unimaginative. I guess Putin spoiled us.
Maybe we should trot out some the old "usual suspects." Khomeini and Qaddafi, for example – i know they're both dead, but can't we still blame them? How about Saddam Hussein, for that matter? Maybe best of all – how about "acid rain" -- remember that one?
In a pinch, I guess we could go back to blaming Assad. Somehow, though, that just seems too unimaginative. I guess Putin spoiled us.
2
The Syrian people have suffered long enough, and if the Russian intervention has shortened the war, good for the Russians. Surprised to hear they're pulling out this soon – but if they're finished, they're finished. They've helped immensely, but there's no denying that their bombs (just like ours) occasionally kill civilians too, and so the sooner they stop dropping them, the better.
3
Russian troops occupying parts of Ukraine and Georgia should follow the suit and go home.
5
And Trans-Carpathia, which was annexed by Stalin after WWII and had absolutely no connection with the Borderlands, should be handed back to Hungary, or Slovakia. 'Ukraine' is a squatter there.
1
There is some difference between observing an alliance and occupation.
Rather than goals achieved, it is more likely budget is broken.
5
What a difference from us, eh?
"Russia’s military intervention in Syria ... was Moscow’s first such action outside the former Soviet Union since the collapse of communism in 1991."
The US military, by contrast, almost NEVER sees action in the US – or, for that matter, within 5,000 miles of the US.
"Russia’s military intervention in Syria ... was Moscow’s first such action outside the former Soviet Union since the collapse of communism in 1991."
The US military, by contrast, almost NEVER sees action in the US – or, for that matter, within 5,000 miles of the US.
4
Mission Accomplished!
3
Quitting while you're ahead, or at the very least not too far behind, is usually a good idea.
1
Obama was right, again... wise and cautious.
4
Right Vlad ... a few jets are going back to the USSR, err, Russia - for repairs.
2
I think we should contract out all these situations, Russia accomplished in five or six months what we were unable to do in four or five years.
8
Again, this is all Obama fault! This sad new that this war we were all hoping for is called off. This means the nasty Obama is deliberately causing the threat of PEACE to happen.
2
Wow... congratulations to President Obama for exemplary diplomacy.
2
What a brilliant move. Assad, I've taken you to the negotiating table - the rest is up to you. Putin, I salute you - peacemaker.
8
Perhaps somebody is running out of money .. ?
1
Borrow from China - and a consulting gig for Bush and Cheney to do it,
Not us. We have a national debt. They don't.
Russia is broke.
Hence the pullout.
Hence the pullout.
6
Alternate Caption;
'Trump mentor pulls out of Syria!'
'Trump mentor pulls out of Syria!'
3
Somewhere out there a little girl is getting a bedtime story from her dad, who is still alive because President Obama decided not to bow to The Very Serious People in DC who think Freedom Bombs and perpetual war are always the answer. I voted for less bloodshed, and by god it paid off. Hallelujah.
I truly hope our future President Clinton is paying attention.
I truly hope our future President Clinton is paying attention.
6
Was the timing right after the Ankara bombing coincidental?
1
Putin notes: I have killed enough people and destroyed the EU. Peace out.
6
If only Obama would rhetorically poke in the eye the main Republican criticizers from the past year. They most certainly deserve to be called out for their ignorant war-mongering.
1
Putin came he conquered and he left .If only our leaders could be so clear
11
Per Eric Schmidt, former CEO of Google: Putin's oil state troll farm pro's are jamming up the internet and are likely on this board taking both sides of the argument with the usual populist right wing political cliches along with arguments that fake the appearance of being serious.
One of the major political parties in the U.S. is funded largely by oil which includes the Koch Bro's. They might want to collude with other oil countries to get the price of oil up to, say, $50? Or $75. Not to be too obvious or too greedy
One of the major political parties in the U.S. is funded largely by oil which includes the Koch Bro's. They might want to collude with other oil countries to get the price of oil up to, say, $50? Or $75. Not to be too obvious or too greedy
1
American mental views of how we should behave when confronting an enemy seems to all be about using brute force: boxing. There are other ways to fight, including AIkido, where force is sometimes used, but hopefully not. Sometimes you win by stepping back and letting the opponent use up their energy. It is a complex world and having some Aikido moves in foreign policy seems to be working. Boxing mostly leads to brain trauma.
10
Syria is going to break apart. Russia has reached their main goals if Latakia is still held by Assad. It is the homeland of the Alawites who are Shia like Iran. It is also where the Russians have had the most influence in Syria. It is where the Russian bases are. The Alawites have been the ruling minority in Syria since the French gave independence. The Russians have never had a problem with the Shia just the Sunni. It should be expected for Russia to side with the Shia. Assad likely in time will go to Latakia and just govern them. This will meet both Russia's and the USA's goals in the area. Iran however still wishes to control the Shia Crescent that would include some areas held by Sunni. Things will calm down if the Shia can stabilize their population centers in the Middle East. I can't so easily forgive Putin for targeting those civilians in Syria and creating the refugee crisis in Europe any more than I can forgive Obama for sitting backing and watching him. That has gained support for Russia and nationalism in Western Europe. If you know the history than the rest is simple math.
4
I wish he would take out a few more ISIS fighters before jumping ship.
4
Declare victory and go home, like we should have done
5
how did humanity ever avoid annihilating itself w hydrogen bombs
1
On that score, we are not out of the woods by a long shot.
1
The moral is that for all its faults the Russian political system works better than the American one. Putin forced the oligarchs out of politics. In this country the oligarchs control our politics, and they push us into wars that we can't win or leave because they win big from them.
14
In addition to all the other lessons he has taught Obama and other world leaders, he now teaches how to fight a war. In, out.
11
More accurately:
In.
Murder thousands of civilians, attack the few moderate rebel elements in the country to shore up one of the most vicious dictators in modern history.
Out.
The only lesson Putin teaches his how to be a brutal thug.
In.
Murder thousands of civilians, attack the few moderate rebel elements in the country to shore up one of the most vicious dictators in modern history.
Out.
The only lesson Putin teaches his how to be a brutal thug.
4
I think you forgot something. A war is won only when one side is defeated. The Syrian civil war is not over. What you have is a stalemate. The only thing Putin taught president Obama is that Putin ran out of money. Hopefully Putin learned something from president Obama and that is to stay out of potential quagmires.
5
Mr. Franklin: is Assad more likely to go, or less likely to go after Russia's intervention? Less likely. That was the war Putin was fighting. He knew what his mission was, so knew when it was over. We do not know what our mission is, so it will never end. (Make that plural.)
Mr. Football; we just bombed Somalia. Are we at war w Somalia? Didn't hear the news. Or are we just at war w everyone, so don't have to declare war on anyone? One hundred and fifty we killed -- but don't worry. All were terrorists, on their way to attack you. And me.
Mr. Football; we just bombed Somalia. Are we at war w Somalia? Didn't hear the news. Or are we just at war w everyone, so don't have to declare war on anyone? One hundred and fifty we killed -- but don't worry. All were terrorists, on their way to attack you. And me.
2
It is obvious that Russia ran out of money to maintain its presence in Syria. They poured billions to sustain their own economy, which suffers significantly due to low oil prices and embargo. And they are also scared to get deep into the Middle East conflict (The Afghan War of 70's). Now, they can't return Crimea even if they wanted it, because that will cause the Civil War within Russia. So they are literally stuck!
2
Another step in the endless tragedy of the Mideast.
Russia is broke. Syria is broken.
The USA did not engage with Russia. So, Russia engaged with herself.
Obama will be gone soon. Will we miss him? Yes, we will.
Ambivalence in Syria is far more attractive than belligerence.
Germany's Angela Merkel opened her strong doors to Syrians. She was dealing with the ghost of Hitler.
This feels like 1914.
World leaders have not engaged to address the mess. Russia, the US, France, Germany, England and others danced around as the innocents died by the thousands. Shame everywhere.
To fix such a mess requires all.
To make it worse requires so few.
The world's hot spots increase in number.
Some 60,000,000 refugees cry out world wide. The UN appears feckless. We apoear powerless.
Putin sees chaos in US politics and must hope that we do not descend into some rough stuff.
Russia needs us strong. Believe it.
We thought Gov. George Wallace was dead.
We thought Comrad Stalin was dead.
We thought Europe was stable.
We thought the GOP was a party.
We whacked the hornets nest then ducked the swarm.
The candidates appear dazed and dysfunctional. To the bully the spoils?
Goals achieved? In Crimea? In Ukraine, too?
With deflation in oil comes chaos for Russia. Others.
With deflation and our debt bombs come markets in denial.
Russia is broke. Syria is broken.
The USA did not engage with Russia. So, Russia engaged with herself.
Obama will be gone soon. Will we miss him? Yes, we will.
Ambivalence in Syria is far more attractive than belligerence.
Germany's Angela Merkel opened her strong doors to Syrians. She was dealing with the ghost of Hitler.
This feels like 1914.
World leaders have not engaged to address the mess. Russia, the US, France, Germany, England and others danced around as the innocents died by the thousands. Shame everywhere.
To fix such a mess requires all.
To make it worse requires so few.
The world's hot spots increase in number.
Some 60,000,000 refugees cry out world wide. The UN appears feckless. We apoear powerless.
Putin sees chaos in US politics and must hope that we do not descend into some rough stuff.
Russia needs us strong. Believe it.
We thought Gov. George Wallace was dead.
We thought Comrad Stalin was dead.
We thought Europe was stable.
We thought the GOP was a party.
We whacked the hornets nest then ducked the swarm.
The candidates appear dazed and dysfunctional. To the bully the spoils?
Goals achieved? In Crimea? In Ukraine, too?
With deflation in oil comes chaos for Russia. Others.
With deflation and our debt bombs come markets in denial.
1
Anyone capable of objectivity when it comes to Russia has to admit that Putin, at least temporarily, stopped the advances of ISIS, al Nusra and the like, and put the secular dictator Assad in a much stronger position.
9
Putin never stopped the advance of ISIS. He stopped the advance of the Syrian Rebels and gave Assad a little more time to kill more people.
2
Putin with the aid of a seemingly adoring Western media knows how to perform on today's world stage. With an economy - as measured by GDP - at one tenth the size of that of the US and smaller than that of France - Putin simply doesn't have the money for a prolonged presence in Syria. (Russia's economic fortunes have also been hit by the price if oil falling by two thirds.)
But Putin does know how to create mischief. Take the Ukraine. He announces a fabulous victory in the Crimea, notwithstanding that 95% of the locals were begging to join Russia. Elsewhere he can provide some funds to an opposition that already exists in the Ukraine and periodically send a dozen or so white vans over the border to mimic an invasion.
Since his sojourn into Syria, he has lost planes in Egypt and Turkey and is mindful of his predecessor's losses in Afghanistan.
Time to leave, while his admirers in the Western media can still say that he is tough and that President Obama is weak.
But Putin does know how to create mischief. Take the Ukraine. He announces a fabulous victory in the Crimea, notwithstanding that 95% of the locals were begging to join Russia. Elsewhere he can provide some funds to an opposition that already exists in the Ukraine and periodically send a dozen or so white vans over the border to mimic an invasion.
Since his sojourn into Syria, he has lost planes in Egypt and Turkey and is mindful of his predecessor's losses in Afghanistan.
Time to leave, while his admirers in the Western media can still say that he is tough and that President Obama is weak.
4
We'll see how Assad reacts to what is a clear statement from Putin that Syria needs to get about crafting some sort of internal modus vivendi, as Russia will not forever make his belligerence sustainable. However, Assad always was a brinksman in this war and he may return to that approach, delaying for the time being any serious efforts at peace. And, who knows? If he gets into trouble again, Putin may feel forced to go right back in to prop up the regime -- and the suspicion that this could happen will affect the actions of Assad's enemies.
3
Putin accomplishes his goal to keep Assad in power. Keeps Obama unhinged. Gets lot of free world media playing them like a master orchestra conductor. A lot irked at Iran over Oil production. Destabilizes Europe and Nato with mass immigrants fleeing Syria while he bombs citizens and ignores Isis. Now all he has to do is sit back and watch Merkel and European countries fighting over who doesn't get the migrants.
7
Perhaps Putin wants to invade the Baltic States next.
3
I've watched all the predictions about Putin and 90% of them end up being wrong. We are encircling Russia in Eastern Europe and don't expect him to react. He watched the overthrow of a government on his border and again we told him he is the aggressor. We've put him into positions where he has to react and then said he is building an empire. People should stop predicting and assigning motives to his actions because they are usually wrong.
11
You're perpetuating the Kremlin myth that the US instigated Maidan in Ukraine. The Ukrainians' choice toward a western path was not the result of American intervention. Russian state media has thrown endless fabrications of American involvement in everything, from Maidan to MH17 to the war in Donbas - which the US couldn't be happier not having entered. You cannot blame the countries who have tried to leave Russia's grip after centuries of subjugation. She makes an awful neighbor.
5
The FDA coming out that meldonium, the enhancement drug that all Russian athletes used closed the deal. The Olympics are VERY important to the russian people.
5
Putin's problems: Syrian quagmire, Russian economy in ruins, Oil and nat gas prices collapse, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, his country's currency reverses are just about gone, Russian athletes banned because of doping, the murder of 2 antidoping officials, the murders of his political opponents. Hey Putin , stay in a little longer to prop up your boy Assad and watch the body bag count increase just like 1980's Afghanistan. Putin, not so smart.
6
correction: "reserves" not "Reverses". sorry.
2 anti-doping officials murdered? I don't doubt it. Turns out that Putin's former RT chief censor and Minister of "Truth" was killed in Washington DC last year just days before the Russian athlete doping scandal story broke. I'm not saying they were related but the timing is, um,...
3
For once, declaring victory and going home looks very, very good.
3
Is Putin is applying the Senator Aiken formula - declare victory and get out?
So Putin went in, killed all the rebels the US trained, shored up Assad, established Russia as a player in the Middle East for the first time since the seventies, and now he's gonna pull back and count his winnings.
Wow you liberals were so right! What a quagmire he got himself into. Another brilliant foreign policy victory for Obama.
Wow you liberals were so right! What a quagmire he got himself into. Another brilliant foreign policy victory for Obama.
14
I would venture a guess that in addition to Assad's intransigence the Russian war machine was probably running out of money. Fortunately, the American war machine continues to have unlimited financial resources to fight a war that is unwinable.
We're still in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria and add Lybia as a faild state.
The tragic part is our veterans come home needing financial help and medical care and our politicians say there's no money, we just can't afford it. The Republicans blame Presifdent Obama when all they really have to do is look in a mirror.
We're still in Afghanistan, Iraq and now Syria and add Lybia as a faild state.
The tragic part is our veterans come home needing financial help and medical care and our politicians say there's no money, we just can't afford it. The Republicans blame Presifdent Obama when all they really have to do is look in a mirror.
3
Now if only the United States can show the good sense to get out the fight will be let to those who have actual interests in the area.
8
It was very obvious from the beginning that Putin's primary goal never was to seriously fight ISIS. The targets hit were opposition strongholds including civilian targets advancing Assad and weaken the opposition. That goal was achieved. No surprise here about the announcement.
25
The Western Corporate Media provide no basis from which to say anything was 'very obvious'. President Putin laid out his approach in his address to the United Nations which was either ignored or misrepresented by that Corporate Media.
Putin was worried about the existential threat to Russian federation from a destabilised Syria that might become a base for Islamic State. Thus Russia intervened at the request of and to support the legitimate (UN definition) Government of Syria. Russian intervention has apparently helped stabilise the Syrian State and to some extent counteract USA Regime Change efforts which included using Al Qaeda and IS militants – described in the Corporate Media as moderate rebels.
The USA led coalition now has an opportunity to bring an end to the Syrian Civil War by withdrawing all external forces and ending support for ISIS, Al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the USA itself.
It will be informative to observe whether the USA really wants peace in Syria via a return to the non-sectarian secular institutional State that is still led by President Assad or whether it prefers to see a Libyan style failed state outcome.
Putin was worried about the existential threat to Russian federation from a destabilised Syria that might become a base for Islamic State. Thus Russia intervened at the request of and to support the legitimate (UN definition) Government of Syria. Russian intervention has apparently helped stabilise the Syrian State and to some extent counteract USA Regime Change efforts which included using Al Qaeda and IS militants – described in the Corporate Media as moderate rebels.
The USA led coalition now has an opportunity to bring an end to the Syrian Civil War by withdrawing all external forces and ending support for ISIS, Al Qaeda and other terrorist organisations from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the USA itself.
It will be informative to observe whether the USA really wants peace in Syria via a return to the non-sectarian secular institutional State that is still led by President Assad or whether it prefers to see a Libyan style failed state outcome.
1
Why is Putin getting out?
(a) Is it because Syria is a quagmire with noi efinitive outcome reasonably foreseeable?
(b) Is it because Assad will not accept a negotiated solution to the civil war?
(c) Is it because the weak Russian economy can no longer afford an extended military engagement?
(d) Is it because Russian intervention has increased Iranian hegemony in the Region.
(e) Again with regard to Iran does the withdrawal decision have any connection with Iran's rejection of oil production quotas?
(f) Is it because Putin wants to concentrate on countering NATO operations in Eastern Europe?
(a) Is it because Syria is a quagmire with noi efinitive outcome reasonably foreseeable?
(b) Is it because Assad will not accept a negotiated solution to the civil war?
(c) Is it because the weak Russian economy can no longer afford an extended military engagement?
(d) Is it because Russian intervention has increased Iranian hegemony in the Region.
(e) Again with regard to Iran does the withdrawal decision have any connection with Iran's rejection of oil production quotas?
(f) Is it because Putin wants to concentrate on countering NATO operations in Eastern Europe?
1
Soon the Russians will be out of Syria like they are out of the Ukraine. Potemkin Village illusions.
1
You know what's odd? Almost anybody with half a mind and the wherewithal to do so could put Assad to sleep forever.
Why has nobody done so?
Why has nobody done so?
2
The choice is to consider the unforeseen consequences, or repeat the mistakes of Iraq. Assad is the devil we all know.
This latest announcement by Putin and the Kremlin is another in a long list of Kremlin media propaganda and misinformation. They will be "out" of Syria, yeah right ! , just like they were not in Ukraine, and none of their troops in Crimea. What a total joke. Who can even dream of believing them. Who said: "Don't believe what the Communists say, believe in what they do". Or something like that.
3
I may not agree with him going in but smart guy, no matter what the reason, for getting out right time. Learn America learn!!
5
Syria, like many places in the Middle East has so many small factions in a very small space. It is impossible to come in to help or hinder one side or another because the world there is more like a prism. Staying removed is far better than engaging. If you do engage you have to be willing to "dance on the heads of snakes" be willing to pay off certain factions, snap and snarl at others, but nothing can really be done permanently to neutralize parties that have been on the ground for centuries. The US and Russia will only be visitors in the region. However, we really have the British public to thank for blocking David Cameron/Obama's march to intervention, which then lead to the multilateral diplomatic effort to get rid of chemical weapons. That was a far better solution than anyone had thought of, when we were robotically following a formulaic march toward war. Russia's entrance created an even greater refugee crisis, its good they are "withdrawing."
Reports are that Assad is not willing to be flexible in negotiations. Is Putin announcing withdrawal in order to get Assad to negotiate with the rebels?
1
Maybe the Russians ran out of money, or maybe they ran out of patience with Assad. Or maybe both.
43
I have to acknowledge that Mr. Putin has really achieved his goals in Syria. Asad's regime 6 months ago was collapsing and no one would start any talks with him. That is going on today. Russian military bases were a big question. They will stay. And the main point, no one wanted to talk to Mr. Putin or consider him a player on the world stage. Now he's back. All that at relatively low cost. That'll keep him in power longer, than some people thought.
3
Amazing that there's so much focus on Russia's motive. Maybe it is as they said it was, to stabilize Syria, keep the state from collapsing and set the stage for others to deal with ISIS on the ground.
Odd that we seldom ask about US motives or interests? We currently still have active military operations going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Yemen, expanded base operations in Kenya, Uganda, military advisors in Chad and Nigeria, a 10 billion dollar military aid package in the works with Israel and a full naval base in Bahrain. This doesn't include the dozen or so drone bases scattered across the region.
Does anyone wonder or care what our motives are, what so called 'interests' we're advancing or what all this is costing?
Odd that we seldom ask about US motives or interests? We currently still have active military operations going on in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Libya, Yemen, expanded base operations in Kenya, Uganda, military advisors in Chad and Nigeria, a 10 billion dollar military aid package in the works with Israel and a full naval base in Bahrain. This doesn't include the dozen or so drone bases scattered across the region.
Does anyone wonder or care what our motives are, what so called 'interests' we're advancing or what all this is costing?
8
Sorry Drspock, but we have no military operations going on in Somalia, Libya, Yemen, or Syria. And whatever our motives might be, they're better than all the ones of the homicidal medieval inhabitants of the region.
1
there is only one motive: to prop up Russia's long time ally, the Assad family. Butchers just like him.
1
Don't you watch the news? Haven't you got the word? Putin is a thug and we are defending our freedom.
Why does everyone assume there is actually a pullout? All we know is that there was an announcement. In the case of today's Russia, actions often differ from words, so one must look to the actions, not the words.
40
Who among us thinks we have the whole story here? We know less about this than we do about our own military involvement globally. At best Putin dodged a bullet in a quagmire, at worst this is the leading edge of an awfully wide wedge. Syria is a failed state and this changes nothing I fear. There is no end in sight.
54
Syria was a failed state due to the US sponsored 'Arab spring' which has torn apart most countries in the Middle East, the aim of which was 'regime change'.
What right has the US to instigate such mayhem in any country when their version of 'democracy' is so not fit for purpose.
What democracy will there be if Donald Trump is elected president?
Big business, especially financial institutions, run American 'democracy'!
What right has the US to instigate such mayhem in any country when their version of 'democracy' is so not fit for purpose.
What democracy will there be if Donald Trump is elected president?
Big business, especially financial institutions, run American 'democracy'!
Oh it makes perfect sense. Putin wants the U.S. to get bogged down there instead of his being bogged down there. Putin can't afford Syria. He's hoping some sorry U.N. peace-keeping force shows up and spends their money.
Another possibility: Putin is running out of money. The Russian economy continues to shrivel, now about 13th in the world at $1.2 trillion. The US economy is now about $18 trillion, roughly 15 times that of Russia.
22
When has that ever made any difference to any country at war and Russia produces it's own armaments. So this has been a great showcase from which it can sell.
U.S. debt is now over $19 trillion
U.S. debt is now over $19 trillion
1
Russia's currency reserves are dangerously low almost depleted due to the boycott/economic and oil and nat gas price collapse. Putin can't afford it, he's certainly not going to tap into his own billions stashed away to sustain the russian assault.
2
Funny. Russia has $400 billion in cash and a massive trade surplus. At $3 million per day or about $1 billion per year they could keep doing that for ... Well, you do the math.
Give Putin credit for not getting mired down in the ME. You might say "Mission Accomplished".
5
You wonder which objectives were met. Obama was right that Russia was getting in deeper than they wanted.
16
Yes, either Russia has been successful against the rebels and allowed the government to gain much more areas of control, or Putin has realized that it is a quagmire that can never be won on the battlefield, and that Assad refuses any peaceful settlement. So I think Obama's goal has been met, as far as Assad not falling to Isis, but the Russians probably did little to stop Isis, probably hoping WE send in troops (likely if a GOPer becomes President, but highly unlikely if Clinton or Sanders win). It is a no way situation there. Destroy Isis or at least limit their damage. The rest is religious war between within Islam and regional control as a proxy battle between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
5
ISIS are controlled by Iraqi B'athists that have been working in collusion with the Syrian Assadist B'athists in order to stop others from coming in and removing them from power.
So far it's been a very successful strategy which allowed Russia and Iran to come in and all but destroy the Free Syrian Army forces while destabilising Europe at the same time with a mass exodus of Sunni refugees from Syria. Ethnic cleansing.
So far it's been a very successful strategy which allowed Russia and Iran to come in and all but destroy the Free Syrian Army forces while destabilising Europe at the same time with a mass exodus of Sunni refugees from Syria. Ethnic cleansing.
Why don't you read the article? It list at least some of the objectives that were met. Same advice goes for the 15 people who recommended this post.
Perhaps - just perhaps - even Putin cannot stand abetting the horror of Assad's demonic slaughter. Perhaps whatever strategic advantage the Russians thought to achieve by supporting this monster isn't worth the cold judgement of history. Assad is the evil created when a politician confounds himself with his country. It is the demented uber two-year-old self that was Hitler, Stalin, and Attilla.
5
And Trump,perhaps?
5
Hahahaha,you're kidding,right? The eviler the better for Putin.
2
He may think that whole area is hopeless and he's running out of funds but remember, he's evil personified. How do we know he's really going to pull out?
Judging from the comments, the civil war in Syria is important as a contest between America and Putin.
In another country it may be regarded as a contest between Islamists and secularists, or between Assad and Anti-Assad.
Too bad so few regard the Syrian Civil war as a source of death and destruction for all innocents regardless of faction, as well as a creator of hatred and conflict that pushes men into hatred and acts of evil and desperation.
Every side confuses "good" with encouraging more fighting, violence, reprisal, and promoting chaos for their cause.
In another country it may be regarded as a contest between Islamists and secularists, or between Assad and Anti-Assad.
Too bad so few regard the Syrian Civil war as a source of death and destruction for all innocents regardless of faction, as well as a creator of hatred and conflict that pushes men into hatred and acts of evil and desperation.
Every side confuses "good" with encouraging more fighting, violence, reprisal, and promoting chaos for their cause.
61
Oh no, we regard it for exactly what it is: Another failed nation-state where people won't fight for themselves, for their own freedom, and only want others to show up and do it for them so they can them criticize them and condemn to death - the Islam way.
Assad started this by killing his own people. Instead of meeting them halfway as King Abdullah has done in Jordan.
We'll only know the real reason why Putin pulled out the military after this episode in Syria unfolds, but many comments here are equivocated in stating Russia's objective in Syria was to defeat ISIS/fight terrorism.
For the ones that have time, go search for Putin's speech in the UN, when Assad was on the brink of being deposed by the USA (in an operation identical to the one that toppled Khaddafi). There he stated clearly Russia would not tolerate regime changing in Syria and would intervene militarily should the USA continue with the operation.
And that's what happened: he deployed his Air Force to enforce a no-fly zone in Syria against NATO and the bombings helped the Syrian Army to defeat ISIS in strategic cities (thus eliminating the risk Assad would be toppled by an USA-backed ISIS government/caliphate).
As a terrorist cell, ISIS cannot be eliminated through conventional warfare, as the USA learned the hard way in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that was never Russia's objective. Now let's see if Assad can re-consolidate power in the next few years: if he does so, then Putin's words are true.
For the ones that have time, go search for Putin's speech in the UN, when Assad was on the brink of being deposed by the USA (in an operation identical to the one that toppled Khaddafi). There he stated clearly Russia would not tolerate regime changing in Syria and would intervene militarily should the USA continue with the operation.
And that's what happened: he deployed his Air Force to enforce a no-fly zone in Syria against NATO and the bombings helped the Syrian Army to defeat ISIS in strategic cities (thus eliminating the risk Assad would be toppled by an USA-backed ISIS government/caliphate).
As a terrorist cell, ISIS cannot be eliminated through conventional warfare, as the USA learned the hard way in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that was never Russia's objective. Now let's see if Assad can re-consolidate power in the next few years: if he does so, then Putin's words are true.
7
I'm would not be happy if Assad re-consolidated his power. It was his brutality to his own citizen that stated this uprising. He is an awful man.
Secondly, Putin's words are never true.
Secondly, Putin's words are never true.
2
Lots of commenters here are happy to see Russia go, as am I. The issue now is that with assads position strengthened the war can go on even longer as he sees a chance at victory. This is bittersweet news
I wonder is it a real withdrawal or a military redeployment, due to recent reports that ISIS may have acquired chemical weapons?
1
Could this be the result of the Trump & Putin Love Affair, or was it an agreement with the great diplomate Kerry.Whoever was responsible for this move,the winner was that great humanitarian Assad, & a reprieve for ISIS, who was never effected by the Russians, The Russians destroyed the rebels who wanted to oust Assad.All this occurred while the United States looked on. This has to be included when they write Obama's legacy.
5
No it doesn`t.
5
Is Syria's conflict in anyway related our national interest?
4
Ugly
No , more important to human interest,innocent children were murdered,by the Russians & there was no world demonstrations or calls for divestment for Russia,Where are the anti Israel liberals?
No , more important to human interest,innocent children were murdered,by the Russians & there was no world demonstrations or calls for divestment for Russia,Where are the anti Israel liberals?
Don't worry, we can send in Carl in to deal with all that.
After he's finished sorting out the Chinese, of course.
After he's finished sorting out the Chinese, of course.
Donald Trum - Marco Rubio - Ted Cruz - John Kasich - and all the rest who called Obama weak - where are you today? Putin is going home with his tail between his legs. I wish all of you would do the same!
35
Not a very accurate assessment of reality.
Putin is going home after killing all of the "freedom fighters" funded and trained by the Obama administration to oust Assad.
But, we've seen this movie before, no doubt another "victory" for Obama in the Middle East.
Putin is going home after killing all of the "freedom fighters" funded and trained by the Obama administration to oust Assad.
But, we've seen this movie before, no doubt another "victory" for Obama in the Middle East.
11
Dear PWCooper,
Sorry but you're entirely wrong. That's the problem with Republicans really, they just make up a whole lot of fraudulent facts and then start to believe them. Putin didn't kill all the rebels, Obama didn't train them nor particularly fund them. And there's surely no victory for anyone in Syria yet.
Sorry but you're entirely wrong. That's the problem with Republicans really, they just make up a whole lot of fraudulent facts and then start to believe them. Putin didn't kill all the rebels, Obama didn't train them nor particularly fund them. And there's surely no victory for anyone in Syria yet.
5
Joe, have you ever got that wrong !!
1
I wonder if Assad finally ran out of money to pay bribes to Putin in exchange for Russian blood and treasure
4
Seriously How much Russian blood do you think was spilled in Syria ? Not very much, if any, I'll allow.
3
Those Russian air force ground crew are dressed like Wimbledon ball boys. What's the deal with that?
3
Now that they're leaving, they're heading off to the Russian version of Wimbledon.
3
Now Obama needs to do what he needed to do 3 years ago: take over Syrian air space.
3
ISIS doesn't have planes. What's the point?
5
And will you personally be flying the sorties?--It's really easy to play with another person's life, isn't it??
11
"ISIS doesn't have planes. What's the point?"
So was Libya after the first day of NATO bombing but that didn't stop US, UK and France from bombing Libya into the hands of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.
So was Libya after the first day of NATO bombing but that didn't stop US, UK and France from bombing Libya into the hands of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.
2
Russia has no Military Industrial Complex that their politicians are beholden to so they can walk away. The USA? We're stuck there forever. You know... profit.. Eternal war......
23
Russia IS a military/industrial/security/informational complex.
5
Excuse me, but Russia is the number 2 supplier of weapons to the world behind the U.S. Oil, guns and vodka - sounds like a volatile mix.
2
Looks like Putin is smart enough to stop burning cash on a lost cause.
14
This NYT headline story lifted my mood, because it was about more than just Donald Trump. May the Great Game continue.
4
The use of the word "withdraw" is very misleading. The actual effect on the level of force available for immediate use is close to zero.
Reasons? Here's a few: The cruise missile launch tubes, on Russia's ships and subs in the Mediterranean and Caspian Sea, have been reloaded. And Russia was making a particular point in using long range TU-160 and Bear bombers for the early pulverizing of significant areas. It was "we can and we will reach you." Even for SU-34 fighter-bombers and SU-35 fighter escorts, that are currently at Latakia, Syria is only about 20 minutes (7 minutes supersonic) from Russia's Belbek air base in Crimea.
One more point, did Vladimir say Russia is withdrawing all of its S400 anti-aircraft systems? No.
This is no withdrawal.
Reasons? Here's a few: The cruise missile launch tubes, on Russia's ships and subs in the Mediterranean and Caspian Sea, have been reloaded. And Russia was making a particular point in using long range TU-160 and Bear bombers for the early pulverizing of significant areas. It was "we can and we will reach you." Even for SU-34 fighter-bombers and SU-35 fighter escorts, that are currently at Latakia, Syria is only about 20 minutes (7 minutes supersonic) from Russia's Belbek air base in Crimea.
One more point, did Vladimir say Russia is withdrawing all of its S400 anti-aircraft systems? No.
This is no withdrawal.
18
I don't think he could afford to stay any longer.
As to the comment about Mr. Obama, he is right to not put boots on the ground, and the people I know feel the same way.
As to the comment about Mr. Obama, he is right to not put boots on the ground, and the people I know feel the same way.
22
I think Tacitus said it best:
Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
"They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace. "
Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
"They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace. "
16
Wasn't that Sen Aiken's solution to the USA involvement in Vietnam; declare victory and get out? Sounds good to me. We can even see how it works without doing it ourselves. Couldn't get worse results than our present strategy, which has made the bad even worse.
6
I am happy to hear it sounds like Putin is growing weary of starving and killing civilians, including children. What a thug. He should be brought up on war crimes charges by the UN.
10
What do you call the US sponsored sanctions against Iraq, Iran and North Korea? Pink bunny happy love? I don't even know if some people are serious or just trolling poorly.
7
And you wouldnt make such a suggestion about Obama, the Israelis, the French and the English???
2
You might want to look behind the facade of Mr. Putin's decision, before getting too happy. This doesn't mean the war in Syria over.
2
Say what you will about Putin, he knows when the mission is accomplished and it's time to PULL OUT! And this is who Donald Trump is going to force a deal with?
2
This is good news for the just and the brave in Syria and other areas of the Middle East.
President Obama’s policy stance in the Middle East has proved to correct, again.
President Obama’s policy stance in the Middle East has proved to correct, again.
21
It's too bad that too many Americans don't see it that way...
3
Was that the infamous " now you see me now you don't stance " to which you refer?
2
Sorry. I don't know what point you are trying to make, or to what you are referring. But I do concur that it was best to stay out of this.
"Mr. Putin’s order...came as...a United Nations mediator in Geneva was trying to revive peace talks to stop the conflict..."
in other words, the main goal of peace has yet to be achieved. bombing stuff is easy when you have the requisite aircraft and bombs. preventing people on the ground from killing, raping and assaulting each other is much more difficult. if mr. putin wants to be a respected world leader, he can try the latter task.
in other words, the main goal of peace has yet to be achieved. bombing stuff is easy when you have the requisite aircraft and bombs. preventing people on the ground from killing, raping and assaulting each other is much more difficult. if mr. putin wants to be a respected world leader, he can try the latter task.
2
Putin went a step further. He didn't arm the Syrians with advnced weaponry as the US didf with the terrorists.
3
Actually, he armed certain Syrians with T-90s and advanced MLRS systems and other such fun weapons. These certain Syrians enjoyed using these toys to kill other Syrians. That certain Syrian is a certain Assad.
3
Dear S Nillissen,
The U.S. didn't arm the terrorists with advanced weaponry either. Please refrain from making up stuff in the comments, even if you are a Republican and have little alternative, as the actual facts never support your views.
The U.S. didn't arm the terrorists with advanced weaponry either. Please refrain from making up stuff in the comments, even if you are a Republican and have little alternative, as the actual facts never support your views.
1
Syria is Russia's version of Saudi Arabia, minus the oil. Or Egypt under Sisi. Assad is very, very bad, but no worse than the men who lead the KSA, who are currently massacring civilians in Yemen while grossly mistreating their own people, particularly women or anyone inadequately praising them. The Russians want to maintain their presence in the Middle East through Iran, Syria and Hezbollah. The US has a much bigger list of client states in the area, almost all of whom are also grotesque violators of human rights. This is largely bare knuckles foreign policy without a scintilla of morality on either side.
24
The appropriate military response to today's threats of terrorism and rogue states is the Israeli doctrine of "Mowing the Lawn" largely invented to address the Hamas terrorist regime in Gaza. Putin is largely following that here.
The concept is simple: Get in. Destroy major infrastructure and capabilities - mostly by air with some special forces. Gain specific strategic goals. Get out. Rinse and repeat as needed. Enhance with drone warfare and special forces-ops between mowing.
Don't stick around to nation-build: You can't solve the world's problems.
Don't regime-change: A weak version of what you have now might be better than what you get next.
The main counter tactic by the terrorists or rogue nation is to hide their assets behind civilians. Unfortunately, some civilian casualties are unavoidable in order to accomplish larger goals which will hopefully protect many more civilians. Of course the media coverage which emphasis the inevitable civilian casualties can destroy the campaign. The simple solution to this is to have any nation other than Israel do it - literally any other nation - you will suddenly see a total disinterest in covering the inevitable civilian casualties which is a cost that is understood and accepted in any context other than Israel defending its citizens from terror. The minimal coverage of the civilian cost in the Russian Syrian campaign is a good example. Or do it somewhere remote - like Obama's drone campaign - also not much coverage.
The concept is simple: Get in. Destroy major infrastructure and capabilities - mostly by air with some special forces. Gain specific strategic goals. Get out. Rinse and repeat as needed. Enhance with drone warfare and special forces-ops between mowing.
Don't stick around to nation-build: You can't solve the world's problems.
Don't regime-change: A weak version of what you have now might be better than what you get next.
The main counter tactic by the terrorists or rogue nation is to hide their assets behind civilians. Unfortunately, some civilian casualties are unavoidable in order to accomplish larger goals which will hopefully protect many more civilians. Of course the media coverage which emphasis the inevitable civilian casualties can destroy the campaign. The simple solution to this is to have any nation other than Israel do it - literally any other nation - you will suddenly see a total disinterest in covering the inevitable civilian casualties which is a cost that is understood and accepted in any context other than Israel defending its citizens from terror. The minimal coverage of the civilian cost in the Russian Syrian campaign is a good example. Or do it somewhere remote - like Obama's drone campaign - also not much coverage.
13
Don't think so why reply to a failed policy by a failed "doctrine"? That strategy hasn't helped Israel that much, it has hurt Israel. Look how unpopular Israel is in the world stage...There is no such a sustainable solution such as carpet bombing civilians, it was a surprise to see Russians officially bomb another country; but, after the 1st wow moments, reporters were at it reporting on civilian casualties. From that moment, we knew that Russia had only very short time to continue the show...without having to feel the effects the media scrutiny like it did in the Chechen war, that is why the Pentagon have invested in very expensive precise weapons and not only that every operation the US lead is accompanied by a very intense PR campaign and rebuilding effort and only the US has the mean to afford that and no one else because we have money...
I guess this will introduce another round of Putin praise on Fox News.
Which reminds me -- Donald Trump wasn't the first Republican to praise the leadership and efficacy of the Russian president. Rudy Giuliani, Sean Hannity, and others on Fox News are on tape comparing Putin to Obama -- and, naturally, having Obama coming out on the short end of it.
Which reminds me -- Donald Trump wasn't the first Republican to praise the leadership and efficacy of the Russian president. Rudy Giuliani, Sean Hannity, and others on Fox News are on tape comparing Putin to Obama -- and, naturally, having Obama coming out on the short end of it.
5
Don't you remember Hillary's "Reset" button with Putin? Obama himself said Russia was not important, a relic of the cold war.
7
Can't blame the President for trying to dispel another Cold War. How many fronts can the U.S. stand to fight on?
1
Tony:
That silly "reset" button should eliminate Clinton from consideration for CIC. It was an act that combined naiveté and hubris to an embarrassing degree.
That silly "reset" button should eliminate Clinton from consideration for CIC. It was an act that combined naiveté and hubris to an embarrassing degree.
5
The response by Russia's UN envoy Vitaly Churkin to Assad's statement that he intended to conquer all of Syria was that it was nonsense. No doubt Putin has this opinion as well. There is now the prospect of a political settlement and Russia and the US have their work cut out to bring their respective parties to the negotiating table. The negotiating process appears to be bringing some order to the highly fragmented opposition increasing prospects for a sustainable government to emerge. The context for Putin's decision is also that Russia is now making significant cuts in its defense budget and that other than the nuclear deterrent Russia does not really have a defensive strategy and needs to attend to that with some urgency. We can hope that along with the hopeful withdrawal of the main part of Russian forces from Syria that Russia also stops its propaganda war against the EU. A fragmenting EU would pose the greatest threat to Russia security of all plausible threats in the near term future.
28
Russia has been conducting a propaganda war against the EU? Does it come close to the US propaganda war agaianst Russia over the past two years. This scrap heap of a newspaper has been complicit in the matter.
4
Hey Vlad! Nice cut and run job in Syria!
3
A fragmenting EU is Putin's plan. not a threat. How can a weakened NATO be a threat to Russia? Who do you think has prolonged the Syrian conflict and funneled millions of refugees to Europe rather than Russia? The bungling EU is not calling the shots here and, trust me, Putin has a plan and a strong EU is not part of it.
2
What Putin has done is retreat. Of course he also declared victory - amazing how all the Putin supporters actually believe he accomplished something. How easily manipulated are these Trumpster - I mean Putin - fanboys.
Putin's economy is under great stress due to the decline in oil prices (a smart Obama strategy that pressures Russia while helping the West). Putin simply could not afford to keep it up. The Ukraine adventure is also
costing him.
Putin is not particularly smart or clever. Russian insiders say the Kremlin is just muddling through and really does not know what it is doing. Putin has some room for error because 1) he is a cold-blooded dictator and 2) he has a very high domestic approval rating from his authoritarian-loving supporters - much like the Trumpster.
Putin's economy is under great stress due to the decline in oil prices (a smart Obama strategy that pressures Russia while helping the West). Putin simply could not afford to keep it up. The Ukraine adventure is also
costing him.
Putin is not particularly smart or clever. Russian insiders say the Kremlin is just muddling through and really does not know what it is doing. Putin has some room for error because 1) he is a cold-blooded dictator and 2) he has a very high domestic approval rating from his authoritarian-loving supporters - much like the Trumpster.
8
Oh golly gee, you mean like "W" and his victory?
I guess Mr "Fourteen" does not realize that a victory can only be declared in a conventional war. In an asymmetrical warfare, the best you can hope is to destroy infrastructure and inflict damage. And Putin did not in fact declare victory. All he said is that the mission of Russian armed forces in Syria is complete and not it is time for political settlement. I think that this was overall a brilliant operation on Putin's part. I am not on his side but I think he has really done well here.
And I am not sure that this operation was that expensive. Moving about a 100 existing planes, setting up a temporary air base and moving exiting anti air craft missiles is a modest effort.
And I am not sure that this operation was that expensive. Moving about a 100 existing planes, setting up a temporary air base and moving exiting anti air craft missiles is a modest effort.
3
How is Obama responsible for the low oil price? Because he reduced economic growth? I don't understand the logic some comments are showing. All things good belong to Obama and everything bad belongs to Putin, China, Republican.
4
I am glad that the Russians seem to be leaving. However, nothing will be accomplished until the governments and militias of the region figure out a way to share power. This might take 30 years and thousands more lives lost. We should not be tempted to rush in, inch by bloody inch. It may be that Barack Obama and John Kerry is doing yeoman's work for the region and the world by pushing for ceasefires. The pictures I see show cities and neighborhoods that are complete shambles. Someday, the people of those cites will come looking for aid in rebuilding. Will the rich nations of the regions step up with billions of dollars or will the US be called upon to lead the way?
2
Lest we forget, it is the US that orchestrated many of these regime changes and so called color revolutions. Read the Snowden document in which the US made plans for regime change in Syria way back in 2006. Add Ukraine to the mix, most people around the world heard the audio recording of Victoria Nuland making plansfor the coup in that country....even going so far as to put people in power in Kiev. Nobody is fooled when the US is portrayed as some neutral and benevolent bystander.
3
Dear S. Nillissen,
There's no reason to accept your comment as being truthful. How about citing to something that already exists and we can check? Otherwise you're just making stuff up out of nothing, like a Republican.
There's no reason to accept your comment as being truthful. How about citing to something that already exists and we can check? Otherwise you're just making stuff up out of nothing, like a Republican.
2
Recently, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. wrote a remarkable essay published in Politico in which he provides background to recent Syrian “conflicts,” I draw from it and have added the link below.
The current, foreign-fueled (no pun intended) conflict in Syria began in 2000, according to RFK, Jr., when Qatar made a proposal to Syria's Assad to construct a $10 billion, 1,500 kilometer pipeline through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Turkey. Syria didn’t bite.
Russia, Syria’s ally, sells the majority of her gas exports to Europe, and interpreted the Qatar-Turkey pipeline as an existential threat. In Putin’s view, “the Qatar pipeline is a NATO plot to change the status quo, deprive Russia of its only foothold in the Middle East, strangle the Russian economy, and end Russian leverage in the European energy market.” In 2009, Assad rejected Qatar’s gas pipeline offer and instead endorsed a Russian-approved “Islamic pipeline.”
The proposed “Islamic pipeline” would run from Iran through Syria and to the ports of Lebanon, and make Shiite Iran, not Sunni Qatar, the main supplier of gas to the European market. The pipeline would exponentially increase Tehran’s influence locally and internationally. Understandably, this ruffled many feathers in the Middle East, including Israel’s.
If Russia is pulling out of Syria now, it looks like there will be an Islamic pipeline. I’m bullish on oil.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/rfk-jr-why-arabs-dont-tru...
The current, foreign-fueled (no pun intended) conflict in Syria began in 2000, according to RFK, Jr., when Qatar made a proposal to Syria's Assad to construct a $10 billion, 1,500 kilometer pipeline through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Turkey. Syria didn’t bite.
Russia, Syria’s ally, sells the majority of her gas exports to Europe, and interpreted the Qatar-Turkey pipeline as an existential threat. In Putin’s view, “the Qatar pipeline is a NATO plot to change the status quo, deprive Russia of its only foothold in the Middle East, strangle the Russian economy, and end Russian leverage in the European energy market.” In 2009, Assad rejected Qatar’s gas pipeline offer and instead endorsed a Russian-approved “Islamic pipeline.”
The proposed “Islamic pipeline” would run from Iran through Syria and to the ports of Lebanon, and make Shiite Iran, not Sunni Qatar, the main supplier of gas to the European market. The pipeline would exponentially increase Tehran’s influence locally and internationally. Understandably, this ruffled many feathers in the Middle East, including Israel’s.
If Russia is pulling out of Syria now, it looks like there will be an Islamic pipeline. I’m bullish on oil.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/rfk-jr-why-arabs-dont-tru...
4
Declare mission accomplished, then leave.
Why can't our leaders ever do that?
Why can't our leaders ever do that?
11
accomplish or declare? we are pretty good at the latter.
2
Does that mean you missed G.W. Bush's declaration about Iraq?
2
Will Putin hold a ceremony on the Russian Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov with a banner that reads: "Миссия выполнена" (Mission Accomplished)?
14
The unpredictable Mr. Putin. Not sure I believe him and that this isn't just a head fake of sorts to draw out Assad's enemies. I suspect that this withdrawal is partial and that his air force is waiting to pounce when the opportunity presents itself. There is definitely something else going on.
34
We've heard "mission accomplished" before. I'll have some salt with that, please.
8
Best Putin move: Declare victory and go home.
12
I guess clear objective helps define the beginning and end of a mission.
I wish Obama would be able to take note. We got a president who wanted to nation build for humanitarian reasons, which are just as bad as the Bush miscalculations in Iraq and not only took disastrous steps in Syria, but Libya as well.
Can we have a president who thinks of American interests first, instead of thinking of his popularity among other world leaders, elites and main stream media?
I wish Obama would be able to take note. We got a president who wanted to nation build for humanitarian reasons, which are just as bad as the Bush miscalculations in Iraq and not only took disastrous steps in Syria, but Libya as well.
Can we have a president who thinks of American interests first, instead of thinking of his popularity among other world leaders, elites and main stream media?
8
If you want that, you have to elect a skilled leader, not a skilled politician.
3
First question. And just what "goals" might they be?? It clearly behooves one to remain circumspect about any of Mr. Putin's actions, as they are always well-calculated, leaving very little room to chance. And while the answer to this question may not come about immediately, it's guaranteed to become apparent further down the road. Maybe even sooner than later.
5
Putin again takes the lead. It is no surprise that Washington was surprised by this move.The Obama administration is clueless on the world stage. Fortunately they have one foot out the door. Unfortunately Obama's departure has not come soon enough.
12
Smart Putin. He beat us to the punch - Again! He figures what is the point of bombing graveyards anyway. He made his show of strength, role of the peacemaker but not taking the onus of being the world's police leaving Assad and the insurgents, both losers, to fend for themselves. Dramatic exit, ineed!
8
Given the immense mind boggling suffering of the Syrian people including babies and small children that's an additional devastating consequence of Putin's proud "mission accomplished" scenario indicates that the part of the human brain that feels compassion for fellow humans either died or never developed in both Putin and Assad.
5
And why would you not include Obama in such a statement? Giving terrorist TOW anti tank missiles will come back to haunt the US
5
Dear S. Nillissen,
We didn't supply them any anti-tank missiles. In fact, not one of your comments here seems to have any truth to it.
We didn't supply them any anti-tank missiles. In fact, not one of your comments here seems to have any truth to it.
1
no, Americans are not that stupid. they gave the TOWs to the so called "moderate rebels", who usually gave them to Al-Nusra militants (among others), and this is a fact. Plus they sold the TOWs to the Saudis who gave them to ISIS. Americans should be proud of such forward-looking plan
The real reason why he is calling it quits is not that his mission is accomplished but that his nation is going broke what with low oil prices and deteriorating economy in his country.
British empire became a history after the World Wars and if nations do not learn the lesson that wars can bankrupt a nation, they are doing so at their peril.
British empire became a history after the World Wars and if nations do not learn the lesson that wars can bankrupt a nation, they are doing so at their peril.
5
The US is hopelessly grounded in the middle east, fearing that any retreat will give breathing room for ISIS to expand. Having fought this enemy, they now, justifiably expect the coming blowback and see no alternative but to remain, trapped in quagmires of their own making hoping to stall or defeat a rapidly proliferating enemy. Libya is without a government; Syria is in shambles and Yemen is teetering. These are all the result of direct or indirect proxy actions, as reported right within the pages of this newspaper. Putin has simply gained a tactical victory at the expense of its foe; hopefully Assad can regroup and reclaim territory lost to ISIS, which would actually be an enormous favor to the US. The United States should have been on the side of supporting Assad's regime all along, rather than trying to take it down. The result has been utterly disastrous for the Syrian people. Hopefully the Russians have helped to restore some bit of order to this corner of a very troubled region but the greater damage which is the widespread destruction of at least one formerly stable nation is irreversible. It remains to be seen what becomes of an increasingly unstable region going forward. Object lessons to stay out of military conflicts and foreign entanglements which do not directly serve US interests or the cause of peace.
3
Ah yes, that's what happens when one types without thinking. A very bad error on my part. Many thanks. I deserve the smirks.
Putin's mission was to keep Assad in power. Assad is still in power, and all opposition to him, both that supported by the U.S. and that we deem "radical" have been weakened. Mission accomplished.
9
The Russian economy must be catching up with Mr. Putin! He was really helping Assad by attacking the rebel forces whenever he could. Maybe things can stabilize now, and the UN can build on the ceasefire and the UN sponsored peace talks.
1
Mr Putin, I am a Wyoming Republican who knows Dick Cheney and the world war state firsthand. In 1989, I chose not to be part of decapitating the KGB in Washington because I believed in a peaceful future for post-Soviet Russia and wanted America to be less of a threat during that transition. Thank you Sir for demonstrating the kind of measured engagement in Syria that you and your people thought was needed...and de-escalating the situation, per se. Your example should be noted by all aspects of this conflict. I am grateful Sir.
13
stay in Wyoming with Cheney, please................
5
Interesting.
I read many thoughtful-wannabe commentators drawing the contrast between Putin and Obama (strong vs wimpy) and W (thoughtful vs careless) at the same time. They use the Russian Pro to make both their anti cautious POTUS 44 views and their anti reckless POTUS 43 cases. Doesn't hold.
Where is the truth? I am clueless, the correspondent seems taken by surprise too. Let's wait for the Commentatura to come out with some kind of explanation (Friedman, Cohen, or, better invited foreign policy mavens, section as opposed to the permanent fixtures of the OpEd of the variety show type).
Where is the truth? I am clueless, the correspondent seems taken by surprise too. Let's wait for the Commentatura to come out with some kind of explanation (Friedman, Cohen, or, better invited foreign policy mavens, section as opposed to the permanent fixtures of the OpEd of the variety show type).
2
Mission Accomplished
3
Thanks President Obama.
3
Maybe President Obama could send Trump over to meet with Putin. They could settle the whole Middle East. Trump could make a 'deal'.
1
Too bad 'W' didn't do the same!
5
Maybe this is the result of the deal between Russia and Saudi Arabia to limit oil production? I don't know but it is plausible. Saudis limit oil production, Russia gets out of Syria.
3
Sometimes being the world police it's prudent to exercise restraint as difficult as it watching horrific violence unfolding.
3
Seems more like Russia's coffers are running empty and they can't justify fighting two wars while their people are struggling to find work and eat. They should learn from past mistakes that cooperation with the rest of the world is essential and you can't rely exclusively on oil to keep the country afloat forever.
8
And, of course, this announcement from Putin caught the U.S. by surprise, as nearly everything else that Putin has done in the last few years. The incompetence of our State Department in Syria knows few boundaries.
Not to excuse Putin and the Russians , who demonstrated their ability to bomb civilian targets and our own so-called "allies" with near impunity and who suffered no consequence from the U.S. and others. Not to mention that Russia will keep ready forces available from its navel and air bases in Syria in the foreseeable future. What a fine mess this turned out to be on Obama's watch.
Not to excuse Putin and the Russians , who demonstrated their ability to bomb civilian targets and our own so-called "allies" with near impunity and who suffered no consequence from the U.S. and others. Not to mention that Russia will keep ready forces available from its navel and air bases in Syria in the foreseeable future. What a fine mess this turned out to be on Obama's watch.
7
It is very apparent and obvious that Putin recognizes that Trump will be the next president of the United States and he does not want to deal with such a powerful figure. He is now stating he will withdraw and will be gone by the 2017 inauguration of President Trump to avoid any problems.
7
You are joking?
10
President Trump? I hope to God not
3
President Trump? I hope to God not.
1
Mission accmplished? Nyet.
Putin does not have the money to keep Russian troops in Syria and there is no end to this conflict. What is next? History will tell! No need to send our US ground troops there and repeat what happened in Iraq.
Putin does not have the money to keep Russian troops in Syria and there is no end to this conflict. What is next? History will tell! No need to send our US ground troops there and repeat what happened in Iraq.
12
There. That's how an intervention is supposed to work. Have a goal. Accomplish it. Get out.
12
They're only missing the step of accomplishing it.
10
I submit it is not at all accomplished.
4
We have a slightly used "Mission Accomplished" banner that we would be glad to send to Putin, if he is interested.
10
Most excellent
3
Never trust a Russian delivering good news. Always read and re-read the fine print. Over here in Europe we know that from experience.
13
Putin is playing game again with the West. He wants to show us that he is a responsible player - the observance of the cessation of hostilities. He also needs to convince himself that he is indispensable, knowing the conflict in Syria will not end and that Assad's enemies will continue to fight, prompting him to intervene again.
Putin's intervention in Syria has not been costly. Yet he has achieved his goals - to show the world how "professional" and efficient the Russian army is, to secure a military presence in Syria and to prop up the Assad regime, which has survived thanks to Russian airstrikes. Last September Putin claimed Russia's intervention in Syria was an operation against ISIS, while targeting rebels backed by the West. So he had lied about his objective and can't be trusted.
Putin's intervention in Syria has not been costly. Yet he has achieved his goals - to show the world how "professional" and efficient the Russian army is, to secure a military presence in Syria and to prop up the Assad regime, which has survived thanks to Russian airstrikes. Last September Putin claimed Russia's intervention in Syria was an operation against ISIS, while targeting rebels backed by the West. So he had lied about his objective and can't be trusted.
6
The Russians came to fight the "terrorists." Problem is they have a murky idea of who the terrorists actually are. Many of us saw that Putin had come to prop up Assad, which he has done quite well. Assad is the number one terrorist in Syria historically and continues to be by wily aiding and abetting ISIS to help fight his flank.
And to all the isolationists who were predicting Russia was going to sink into a "quagmire" in Syria, guess again. Reasons for leaving: Putin can now protect his naval base, there is no love lost between Putin and Assad, Assad now has a stronger hand in negotiations, and the Russian economy can't sustain a protracted proxy war.
To me the horrendous humanitarian and refugee crisis in Syria was compounded by any sustained effort - diplomatic or otherwise - from the West.
And to all the isolationists who were predicting Russia was going to sink into a "quagmire" in Syria, guess again. Reasons for leaving: Putin can now protect his naval base, there is no love lost between Putin and Assad, Assad now has a stronger hand in negotiations, and the Russian economy can't sustain a protracted proxy war.
To me the horrendous humanitarian and refugee crisis in Syria was compounded by any sustained effort - diplomatic or otherwise - from the West.
4
Who are the terrorists?
Oops ... I should have typed "a lack of" any sustained effort.
Who are the terrorists? Ask Putin. He was deliberately vague on that point for his own political reasons.
Who are the terrorists? Ask Putin. He was deliberately vague on that point for his own political reasons.
1
Frankly, this is the problem with using such nebulous terms as 'terrorist' or 'bad guy'. They actually quite subjective. While the U.S. described some of those opposing Assad as 'Rebels', the Assad governments and the Russians described them as 'terrorists'. There's an old saying that "One man's terrorist is another man's Freedom Fighter." It's one reason I'm glad we're only involved in a very limited way. Because that place could indeed become a quagmire, and it demonstrates the lackwit on the part of the Republicans who whine and scream about Syria and our response there very clearly, because they don't seem to understand the semantics of the situation.
their "mission accomplished" boy.
Sounds eerily familiar.
Anyone who believes that Putin's strategy has been thoughtful, methodical and successful has been mislead by one of the master manipulators in the world. I am incredulous at some comments which actually seem to suggest that the U.S. should emulate him, or that now a peaceful resolution may be at hand.
Mr. Putin ( as was told to me by Russians during a visit to Russia) is a very clever, calculating man. Every decision he makes, and every public announcement he makes is carefully devised to create a certain impression which may disguise his real intention. Whatever Russia really intends to do will be revealed by its actions, which may or may not have any consistency with Mr. Putin's statement.
We can be sure of only one thing. Whatever Mr. Putin's objective is in Syria, there has not been an "overall completion". Maybe he achieved something, such as establishing Russia as a power player in the Middle East. His true intentions will become evident as Russia's presence in the Middle East unfolds. They are definitely are not going away from the region.
Mr. Putin ( as was told to me by Russians during a visit to Russia) is a very clever, calculating man. Every decision he makes, and every public announcement he makes is carefully devised to create a certain impression which may disguise his real intention. Whatever Russia really intends to do will be revealed by its actions, which may or may not have any consistency with Mr. Putin's statement.
We can be sure of only one thing. Whatever Mr. Putin's objective is in Syria, there has not been an "overall completion". Maybe he achieved something, such as establishing Russia as a power player in the Middle East. His true intentions will become evident as Russia's presence in the Middle East unfolds. They are definitely are not going away from the region.
21
You seem to see right through him.
2
The only thing certain here is that NYT readers have no idea what Putin's up to. Unfortunately, neither does this Administration. Maybe it simply doesn't care since Obama thinks Russia's challenges (threat?) ended with the Cold War.
Kissinger is probably the last SOS who seemed to have a solid grasp of Russia. Nixon certainly did.
Kissinger is probably the last SOS who seemed to have a solid grasp of Russia. Nixon certainly did.
2
How is this a "Mission Accomplished" as Putin calls it?
- Is ISIS defeated? No
- Are the Other Rebels Groups defeated ? No
- Is Assad winning? Maybe , for how long?
Putin has learned from G.W but he is a little bit smarter than Bush by withdrawing before it gets worse. The Russian Propaganda machine will convince Russians that Putin has won , as they did with Ukraine.
- Is ISIS defeated? No
- Are the Other Rebels Groups defeated ? No
- Is Assad winning? Maybe , for how long?
Putin has learned from G.W but he is a little bit smarter than Bush by withdrawing before it gets worse. The Russian Propaganda machine will convince Russians that Putin has won , as they did with Ukraine.
7
Just like Hitler and Russia in Spain pre WW2.
Iron out the kinks then proceed to bigger fish.
Iron out the kinks then proceed to bigger fish.
1
Sooooo....you're saying Obama's strategy worked?
4
The price of oil: mission accomplished!
1
Translation. Russia's economy is dependent on selling its oil. With the drop in oil price, the Russian economy is faltering. It cannot maintain wars in Syria and the Ukraine etc. oops!
3
Josh Earnest has to be the most uninformed person in Washington, DC., that or either Obama has him on a very short leash.
6
What's your reasoning, if any? Unsupported statements from anonymous bloggers aren't usually accepted as the gospel truth around here.
2
Nice try, since when is the gospel a relevant standard, here, and what is the connection between a name e.g., Stackhouse and the truth? Perhaps we should be a little more welcoming to a new opinion, the word of God notwithstanding..
Get in. Accomplish your own selfish goals quickly and ruthlessly. Understand that you will not solve the world's problems by doing so. And get out.
That is exactly what Putin just did. Accomplished his goal of securing his navy base on the Mediterranean while showcasing Russian military might abroad and at home. And got out without causalities.
If only we had done the same in Iraq.
Quick, decisive, opportunistic, decision-making that puts your own country's agendas first and foremost. That particular aspect of his leadership style would not be a bad thing for our leaders to emulate.
That is exactly what Putin just did. Accomplished his goal of securing his navy base on the Mediterranean while showcasing Russian military might abroad and at home. And got out without causalities.
If only we had done the same in Iraq.
Quick, decisive, opportunistic, decision-making that puts your own country's agendas first and foremost. That particular aspect of his leadership style would not be a bad thing for our leaders to emulate.
2
"showcasing Russian military might abroad and at home. And got out without causalities"
Except for the fighter plane the Turks shot down. Boy nice airforce Russia has.
Except for the fighter plane the Turks shot down. Boy nice airforce Russia has.
5
None of this appears to be true. Assad is not much better from where he was a year ago. Chechens and other Russian-born extremists are still in Syria. Russians did have casualties. War costs money and Russia is currently not in a position to maintain an open-ended conflict.
Our involvement in Iraq was on a completely different scale and maintaining it is prohibitively expensive.
This was all about putting up a show for domestic purposes and saving face thereafter.
Our involvement in Iraq was on a completely different scale and maintaining it is prohibitively expensive.
This was all about putting up a show for domestic purposes and saving face thereafter.
5
This shows the effectiveness of a good leader and how the military can be used to support a country's interest. If only President Obama knew that maybe this war and many others wouldn't have gone on for so long and cost so many lives.
5
Go in, bomb the hell out of everyone, prop up a brutal dictator, declare victory and leave? I guess you could call that the effectiveness of a good leader.
12
Putin, unlike war-hawks in the USA, knows when it's time to get the he-- out of a quagmire before it drains the nation of money, lives of his soldiers, and popular support. He clearly learned the "lesson" of Russian 1979 adventurism in Afghanistan.
Unlike war-hawks here, who STILL can't learn the "ancient history" lessons of US folly in Vietnam, not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan, which have drained the USA of $billions and thousands of lives--and still counting... And they call for MORE US military involvement in Syria.
Unlike war-hawks here, who STILL can't learn the "ancient history" lessons of US folly in Vietnam, not to mention Iraq and Afghanistan, which have drained the USA of $billions and thousands of lives--and still counting... And they call for MORE US military involvement in Syria.
20
And the US remains.......wasting lives, wasting tie and wasting money.
5
Ha, hat off to Mr. Putin. You gotta give it to him that he is ruthless enough to play the Middle East game. Only stick around long enough to reverse from Assad's breaking point back to a strong enough position to cling onto power for the foreseeable future. And he doesn't even have to courtesy to pick up after himself, leaving the mess as is or probably worse. Meanwhile, the West has to deal with ISIS and the refugees.
Hell, we should do the same thing and pack up from Afghanistan.
Hell, we should do the same thing and pack up from Afghanistan.
3
Wow, this 'mission accomplished' rhetoric. Really know how to lower the bar.
Putin read his constinuency. Prop up Syria, regardless of who is in charge and remind America, draw a red line and we have five battleships ready to go.
The sad part remains the Syrian refugees who want no part of this proxy war and drown off the coast of Greece.
Putin read his constinuency. Prop up Syria, regardless of who is in charge and remind America, draw a red line and we have five battleships ready to go.
The sad part remains the Syrian refugees who want no part of this proxy war and drown off the coast of Greece.
5
Putin is a true leader and not a whimp
4
Mission Accomplished!
Weapons tested. The US embarrassed by Russian effectiveness. At least the Russians are getting out. That's more than one can say for US forces after they accomplished their mission when GWB was President.
Letting people solve their own problems seems a good way to proceed.
Weapons tested. The US embarrassed by Russian effectiveness. At least the Russians are getting out. That's more than one can say for US forces after they accomplished their mission when GWB was President.
Letting people solve their own problems seems a good way to proceed.
5
So what will Donald Trump's take on this be?
It will be that Putin is afraid of him....
It will be that Putin is afraid of him....
4
Trump will be a strong world leader as Putin is. Seems to me that would be the ideal situation for the world.
6
That's a hoot!
I think soon that hypothesis may actually be tested.
Putin has done literally nothing to fight ISIS. All he attempted to do is saving Assad and contributed to death of thousands of Syrians. Assad has gained very little ground, which he proved he can't hold without intense air cover. So I wonder what does the "Mission Accomplished" mean for Russians ? What did they really gain from this adventure in Syria ?
8
Looks like Putin took a page out of George W.'s book and claimed victory even if it isn't true, with the main exception that it appears Putin is smart enough to actually get out before it turns into a quagmire.
5
George Bush did not claim victory. The ship's command put up the banner.
Obama caused the war to escalate when he pulled us out of Iraq too soon. Obama might as well have telegraphed ISIS the date and time we would be gone, and all they had to do was wait for us to leave, and they moved in. Even taking our military equipment that was left behind.
Obama caused the war to escalate when he pulled us out of Iraq too soon. Obama might as well have telegraphed ISIS the date and time we would be gone, and all they had to do was wait for us to leave, and they moved in. Even taking our military equipment that was left behind.
5
The "Mission Accomplished" banner was made and hung by the White House, not the Navy. "Mission Accomplished" was in Bush’s original draft but was taken out by Rumsfeld.
One month later in Afghanistan Bush said, "America sent you on a mission to remove a grave threat and to liberate an oppressed people, and that mission has been accomplished."
One month later in Afghanistan Bush said, "America sent you on a mission to remove a grave threat and to liberate an oppressed people, and that mission has been accomplished."
1
Facts are wonderful things: George W. Bush agreed to and signed the withdrawal agreement with the Iraqi government in 2008 - it was Bush who announced the agreed to withdrawal date for American troops would be in 2009 not Obama. The military equipment left behind was supplied by the US to the Iraqi Army which is how much of it ended up in the hands of Isis.
1
Putin is the kind of man other men want as a buddy. He’s real. He has a clear mind. He has a sense of humor. He’s not full of himself. He knows where he’s going. He loves his people. He’s a standup guy. He can’t be bullied. He’s a rugged individual. He loves animals and abhors criminals. He’s been a good father. He’s a patriot. He’s a fast thinker. He’s a good communicator. He says what he means. He means what he says. He’s generous. He’s polite. He’s responsible.Those attributes used to be what Americans cherished as ideal qualities. The representatives of America are anathema to me. I envy the Russian people.
https://youtu.be/j4p6vdtdE7U
https://youtu.be/j4p6vdtdE7U
7
This is meant sarcastically, right?
14
I would hope so, but then again maybe Trump sent this in.
3
Mixa... 20 years ago I would have denounced anything good said about Russian leadership. But, like they say, that was then and this is now. Obama has been such a weak and confused leader compared to Putin's strengths. And, if there are enough people who are stupid enough to vote for Hillary Clinton, it will be more of the same.
4
After 5 years of war everyone is probably too exhausted to continue fighting in Syria. 20% of the country has fled to Turkey and Europe, the country is practically ruined, and now we are finally getting near the end. Assad has won, and be thankful for that. The alternative to dictatorship in the Middle-Eastern countries is total chaos or Islamic State control. I'd much rather live under a secular dictator who made sure that there was drinking water, electricity for hospitals, functioning courts, and who let women go to university and reject the veil than I would like living under Islamic barbarism. Putin is not a nice guy, but the Russians had a legitimate objection to conduct of the Gulf countries and the US in Syria, and he has made his point.
5
There was an Anthony Bourdain or Bizarre Food with Andrew Zimmern episode shot in Syria before the ISIS invasion. It wasn't a bad place and I wish I had a chance to visit all the ancient sites.
1
The one person in the world who makes Donald Trump look reasoned and rational: Vladimir Putin!
3
Yes, how irrational he is to come in, defeat ISIS and other opposition forces, and then withdraw! What a man man!
1
So, the Russians go in, achieve their objective in a matter of months, and go home with minimal casualties and losses. Let's ask them to show us how it's done.
5
Dear Mario Fusco,
Sorry you're only partially right. The Russians went in, achieved absolutely nothing except killing a batch of people and destroying some infrastructure, and now they're going home with minimal casualties but nothing to show for it. I don't think we want to emulate that, they could have achieved much the same goal by not going in to begin with.
Sorry you're only partially right. The Russians went in, achieved absolutely nothing except killing a batch of people and destroying some infrastructure, and now they're going home with minimal casualties but nothing to show for it. I don't think we want to emulate that, they could have achieved much the same goal by not going in to begin with.
4
And we know all this how? Did Putin share his objectives with the readers of the NYT, who then sent a fact-finding team to Syria to make an independent assessment?
Putin is deescalating and getting the Russians off their war footing, as President Obama wisely did for the U.S. He's avoiding the inevitable quagmire, having brutally ensured Assad's survival, but sharing Obama's conviction that there are no good options in Syria and that there are no military solutions to this sectarian civil war.
Hopefully, the Iranians and the Saudis will end their proxy war of attrition and the peace talks will ratchet down the pointless destruction, so we can turn our attention to a vulnerable ISSIL. Unfortunately for Syrians, autocratic rule will return, but at least the region will stabilize.
It was Obama who rightly pointed out five months ago that the Russians weren't projecting strength by their incursion to shore up a dependent client state, but weakness and given Russia's floundering economy and dropping oil revenue, unsustainable.
The Obama Doctrine of our avoidance of overextending our involvement in another country's civil war, when the country isn't an existential threat to us, even given the blow back and mass hysteria coming from the entrenched Neo-cons, will prove to to be the right move.
Thank goodness Obama had the temperament to calmly sense that his red line statement on Assad's chemical weapons was a wake up call for the Russians and we were able to negotiate its removal without firing a shot.
And think of it, Mr. Trump has recently said he is open to the prospect of sending 20,000 American troops into the region.
Hopefully, the Iranians and the Saudis will end their proxy war of attrition and the peace talks will ratchet down the pointless destruction, so we can turn our attention to a vulnerable ISSIL. Unfortunately for Syrians, autocratic rule will return, but at least the region will stabilize.
It was Obama who rightly pointed out five months ago that the Russians weren't projecting strength by their incursion to shore up a dependent client state, but weakness and given Russia's floundering economy and dropping oil revenue, unsustainable.
The Obama Doctrine of our avoidance of overextending our involvement in another country's civil war, when the country isn't an existential threat to us, even given the blow back and mass hysteria coming from the entrenched Neo-cons, will prove to to be the right move.
Thank goodness Obama had the temperament to calmly sense that his red line statement on Assad's chemical weapons was a wake up call for the Russians and we were able to negotiate its removal without firing a shot.
And think of it, Mr. Trump has recently said he is open to the prospect of sending 20,000 American troops into the region.
13
It's not a civil war grandpa. It's an invasion by foreign troops, funded by Turkey, the US, and Saudi Arabia.
Obama stepped back from bombing Damascus because British intelligence proved the CW could not have been from Assad. and the Pentagon relayed the info to Obama. When it takes the Pentagon to stop a President intent on war, it is absurd to say he has de-escalated. Obama has been hijacked by the neo-con and so US troops continue to fight in Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan
Somalia and Yemen while we fund or arm Israel Saudi Arabia Egypt and Ukraine. Meanwhile US continues to have troop in 140 nations and beef up the defense budget as Russia decrease its military budget which is about 8% of the US budget.
Obama stepped back from bombing Damascus because British intelligence proved the CW could not have been from Assad. and the Pentagon relayed the info to Obama. When it takes the Pentagon to stop a President intent on war, it is absurd to say he has de-escalated. Obama has been hijacked by the neo-con and so US troops continue to fight in Iraq Afghanistan Pakistan
Somalia and Yemen while we fund or arm Israel Saudi Arabia Egypt and Ukraine. Meanwhile US continues to have troop in 140 nations and beef up the defense budget as Russia decrease its military budget which is about 8% of the US budget.
3
Grandpa Scold.. It has been said that with age comes wisdom, but if you honestly see the situation as you stated, how can we survive? Obama kept drawing lines in the sand and Putin and Assad kept erasing them. Obama's biggest mistake was siding with the rebels, when common sense should have told him that the only way to stop the bloodshed was to side with Assad against the rebels which were largely made up of ISIS and other terrorists, while Mr. Obama and Hillary Clinton were refusing to call them terrorists, we should have learned our lesson in Iraq, and left Saddam or another dictator in power. Unfortunately President Obama's policies have led to untold numbers of deaths in the Mideast.
2
Did I miss the decision by Obama not to be an interventionist? Libya, Syria and the rest...even from behind he has gotten us tangled up with some nasty nasty guys and don't forget his new war in aid of the lovely Saudis.
We need to get out of the ME and stop with the regime change policies. If people want to change their regime we need to let them do it. We shouldn't be doing it for them because we don't have a clue or a plan.
We need to get out of the ME and stop with the regime change policies. If people want to change their regime we need to let them do it. We shouldn't be doing it for them because we don't have a clue or a plan.
1
Bravo Putin for leaving Syria. Now if Obama would only do the right thing and stop funding and arming his group of killing machines....
9
So we have the CIA, FBI, spies, and daily Kerry/Lavrov communications and this whole thing came as a surprise to us. Whatever, but now we are stuck there with a job half done. Obama obviously will not get friendly with Assad and will only focus on ISIS in Iraq. Certainly a who-is-who challenge when blind folded in the dark is never easy. So obviously this will give Turkey more powers to blackmail Europe in what to do with a sudden increase of Migrants, fighting Assad, and deciding to use Kurds to either fight for them in Syria or just kill them in Iraq and Ankara. Only thing not yet resolved is Putin's anger with Turkey for shooting down one of their planes near the Syrian/Turkish border. Interesting place there.
2
It is humorous to read comments from ghost Americans named "Jim in Wisconsin" or "Nancy from Great Neck", all unctuously praising the exploits of Vladimir Putin in the NYT comments threads. Rarely have I heard anyone on this side of the Atlantic laud the Russian leader. On the contrary; he is now known for bombing Aleppo, an urban area of 3.5 million -- sending thousands to flee on foot and causing starvation in nearby villages. Putin has chosen not to deal with ISIS at all, leaving that grim task to the West. Putin is the worst kind of "president," and Russia deserves its international reputation as a pariah state. It is more isolated from the West than ever, and that isolation must continue.
27
A Ukrainian named Mason? Never heard that on before. Live and learn.
it does not matter any longer what is happening in Syria.
Миссия выполнена !
(missiya vypolnena)
Mission Accomplished !
(missiya vypolnena)
Mission Accomplished !
28
I trust this is sarcasm.
In the first place, nobody yet has a clue as to the substance or meaning of this move. Second, whether or not the "withdrawal" is real, Putin must believe as though some mission has been achieved, although exactly what remains a mystery. Third, if the withdrawal is real and leaves a power vacuum, filling that vacuum will leave Syria more of a hell-hole than it already is. Fourth, whatever vacuum is left, if any, the US must continue to stay out of the fray.
Bashar al-Assad's rule is doomed. its history of criminally gratuitous brutality does allow it to be sustained. Assad will fall; if not soon, then later. Only the timing is in doubt. In the meantime the nightmare for Syria and its people will continue.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Bashar al-Assad's rule is doomed. its history of criminally gratuitous brutality does allow it to be sustained. Assad will fall; if not soon, then later. Only the timing is in doubt. In the meantime the nightmare for Syria and its people will continue.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
7
But our buddies the Saudis have been all happiness and light! At least Assad was a secularist. We cannot attack Assad with a straight face while we embrace the Saudis, the Qataris, the UAE, the Rulers of Bahrain. It's such hypocracy.
But wait, President Putin said his troops were coming to help defeat ISIS and ISIS isn't defeated. You mean that's not the truth? Putin lied?
Donald will be SO disappointed.
Donald will be SO disappointed.
29
ISIS is "contained" And they were the "JV team of terrorism" anyway. Wait,m where did I hear that?
2
A beautiful job of creating the perfect swamp for leaderless US forces to enter and become mired. Our feckless leaders have allowed the Russians to accomplish precisely what they wanted -- making the dictator the best of an assortment of abysmal choices.
3
Mission accomplished?
The Arab Gulf states coalition and the US, what are you waiting for? A political settlement is at hand. Grab it. Assad is not going anywhere and the 'main part' of the Russian forces can be put back in at anytime.
4
I think we can be sure Putin did not do this because Obama/Kerry asked him.
8
As Putin withdraws from his unwinnable Syrian foray, I am reminded of the the cynical obserbers of the unwinnable Viet Nam War who suggested that the way out of that quagmire was to declare victory and go home.
12
I seem to remember the situation in Vietnam a bit different. Democrat President Lyndon B Johnson was fighting his own political war and sent 53,000 of our young warriors to their deaths in the jungles of Vietnam. And when warmonger Johnson was finally gone, Republican President Richard Nixon stepped in and said enough was enough, and pulled us out of those wretched jungles.
2
Your recollections do not correspond to reality. Nixon ran in 1968 on the promise that he had a plan to end the war. He sabotaged Johnson's peace negotiations in Paris for electoral advantage. Once in office, he greatly expanded the war, intensifying the bombing of the north, mining Haiphong harbor and invading Cambodia. Nixon continued the war for five years. All of these facts are easily checked on Google.
1
Does anyone believe the UN brokered Syria peace talks will accomplish anything? The real players in this game are not Assad and the rebels. I, for one, am tired of US engagement in these proxy wars between the house of Al Saud and Iran.
If we were really serious about establishing a stable presence in the area, we would be brokering talks between Erdogan and the PKK, with the eventual establishment of Kurdistan out of the ashes of northern Syria and Iraq (call it a 'Pakistan solution'). This would provide Turkey with much needed stability, and effectively oust the Kurds from Turkey, as well as provide a buffer between Turkey and unstable elements in the Middle East.
This would strengthen the hand of the US in this region without getting us involved in another Shia/Sunni conflict backed by the two wealthiest nations in the area, a mess into which Iraq has already devolved.
If we were really serious about establishing a stable presence in the area, we would be brokering talks between Erdogan and the PKK, with the eventual establishment of Kurdistan out of the ashes of northern Syria and Iraq (call it a 'Pakistan solution'). This would provide Turkey with much needed stability, and effectively oust the Kurds from Turkey, as well as provide a buffer between Turkey and unstable elements in the Middle East.
This would strengthen the hand of the US in this region without getting us involved in another Shia/Sunni conflict backed by the two wealthiest nations in the area, a mess into which Iraq has already devolved.
11
How about getting the Turks out of Kurdistan instead of Kurds out of Turkey? The Kurds and other Iranian people have been there for millennia while the Turks was only there starting 1299 after arriving from western China. The land that's Turkey belongs to the Greek, Armenian, Syrian, Georgian and a few ethnic minorities that have been there since the time of the pharaoh.
The only reason US is tolerating Turks' treatment of native minorities is because Turks are strongly anti-Russian.
The only reason US is tolerating Turks' treatment of native minorities is because Turks are strongly anti-Russian.
3
Yes, let's just create another state (or maybe two!) That's worked so well in the past.
1
Why isn't establishment of a 'real' Kurdistan a more prominent position among those who's interest is stabilizing the ME, especially the Turkey/Iraq/Syria region. They seem to be the only 'adults' on the block.
3
You gotta give it to Putin. He understands the dynamics of military intervention.
A war cannot build anything, therefore it inherently lacks strategy. But it has tactics. The best a war can accomplish is thwart others' effort and destroy.
Destroy, subvert, and leave, then, if need be, come back, destroy, and leave. This is the best strategy of our time.
We have rejected this strategy to our own peril. One exception is Libya. Yes, it's still a mess, but not ours.
It's time we learned from successful people.
A war cannot build anything, therefore it inherently lacks strategy. But it has tactics. The best a war can accomplish is thwart others' effort and destroy.
Destroy, subvert, and leave, then, if need be, come back, destroy, and leave. This is the best strategy of our time.
We have rejected this strategy to our own peril. One exception is Libya. Yes, it's still a mess, but not ours.
It's time we learned from successful people.
14
It was a successful means to a political end...a la Carl von...
I did not see this coming. I expected them to use the cease fire with some rebels to shift their fire to other rebels. That has been Assad's method for years. I'm waiting for another shoe to drop.
The US had been presuming a quagmire would have to develop. Every US action of this sort has turned into a quagmire, even Libya where we did not invade.The US had been presuming Putin would be hurt in the long term, as the long term had to be "inevitable" as it is for us.
Putin may have dodged that bullet.
Or this could be something else entirely. Withdrawing a few airplanes is easily reversed. They fly away, they can fly back. But it is a big show. What could the show be?
The US and its somewhat crazy allies will be tempted to take this opportunity to show complete bad faith. There is no need for a cease fire if the Russians are quitting, just go back to what we were doing before they arrived.
So we make ourselves into the problem, and the Russians come back. The Europeans, Japanese, and others will lose any sympathy they had. The "Western" effort in Syria would be shown up as Saudis and the like supported by a dishonest US war machine that won't stop.
There is another shoe to drop here.
The US had been presuming a quagmire would have to develop. Every US action of this sort has turned into a quagmire, even Libya where we did not invade.The US had been presuming Putin would be hurt in the long term, as the long term had to be "inevitable" as it is for us.
Putin may have dodged that bullet.
Or this could be something else entirely. Withdrawing a few airplanes is easily reversed. They fly away, they can fly back. But it is a big show. What could the show be?
The US and its somewhat crazy allies will be tempted to take this opportunity to show complete bad faith. There is no need for a cease fire if the Russians are quitting, just go back to what we were doing before they arrived.
So we make ourselves into the problem, and the Russians come back. The Europeans, Japanese, and others will lose any sympathy they had. The "Western" effort in Syria would be shown up as Saudis and the like supported by a dishonest US war machine that won't stop.
There is another shoe to drop here.
9
"Mission Accomplished," eh Putin?
2
I suggest that we all avoid Putin Derangement Syndrome (all of his behavior is automatically labelled as evil without consideration of other possibilities) and hail the withdrawal by Russia. Now if the United States could only have this much courage to withdraw.
13
Since we're not involved in Syria, we don't need to withdraw.
1
Translation from Putin.....This is a Syrian problem, not any of the foreign "stupids". The Syria army is strengthened to the point of being able to function on its own. I will continue to support Syria with materials, but it is now up to the Syrians to solve there own problem.
8
It is the only way to have a stable Syria in the long term. The government must have the capacity to handle security on its own. America's method of using GIs to handle security and then transfer security to a poorly trained "government" force with American weapon then promptly withdraw have proven to be ineffective in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
1
I guess the low oil prices finally caused a big enough hole in Putin's wallet. He cannot keep pouring down billions into the mideast sinkhole. Very wise of Obama to refrain.
14
Hopefully, the "refugees" can now begin to go back home.
3
A welcome turn of events. Now if the US could gain the wisdom to stop nation building and simply face the threat posed by ISIS.
7
I wouldn't be so pessimistic about the ceasefire.
If the US backs the ceasefire and actually tries to restrains its anti-Assad allies (Turkey and Saudi Arabia), we could see a drawdown of hostilities in Syria. Syria probably won't recover as a unified state, but if it peacefully dissolves into several semi-autonomous pieces, that'd be fine too.
Not sure if that'll happen, though. I won't be surprised if the CIA/Pentagon instead double down on support for the rebels to reverse Assad's gains. That would certainly undo any notions of a ceasefire and a transition period. I hope that won't happen, and that the US is seriously considering going through with the talks.
If the US backs the ceasefire and actually tries to restrains its anti-Assad allies (Turkey and Saudi Arabia), we could see a drawdown of hostilities in Syria. Syria probably won't recover as a unified state, but if it peacefully dissolves into several semi-autonomous pieces, that'd be fine too.
Not sure if that'll happen, though. I won't be surprised if the CIA/Pentagon instead double down on support for the rebels to reverse Assad's gains. That would certainly undo any notions of a ceasefire and a transition period. I hope that won't happen, and that the US is seriously considering going through with the talks.
7
Since most things in life are quid pro quo, what was the reason for the recent Russian announcement of "frontal re-adjustment", "retrograde maneuvers", "re-deployment", "exfiltration" or whatever the most recent word for "withdrawal" might be ?
3
And why anyone should believe anything Putin says? According to Putin, the "little green men" in Crimea weren't his troops; he sent no troops or weapons to Eastern Ukraine; he sent forces to Syria to help us fight ISIS; he agreed to a ceasefire but kept on bombing Assad's enemies and civilians in Syrian neighborhoods. What Putin says means nothing; what Putin does means everything.
6
Never mind what he says, watch what he does. If the air campaign indeed stops, it stops. And there's that.
1
I have not had time to read the article yet, but let me say this is not Putin pulling out because his objectives are achieved. That's what he his boys are saying, and you know anything they say must be assumed by anyone sane to be heading in quite another direction than toward the truth. This is Putin negotiating, in his own special way, with the "ruling" Alawite faction and surviving friends, to betray the Bashar now (a man for whom he can obviously have no regard whatsoever. Do we?) if they themselves hope to play any future role in Syrian society, and if they would "appreciate" a little of the old, traditional, Russian "protection". Heard it here first! Risky for the Vlad and his Lapdog, oops, I mean Lavrov of course, but when you're plum crazy to start out with... You'll try anything!
6
Expensive, ain't it Vladimir.
29
Grudgingly, Putin's intervention appears to be a textbook example of how to conduct a limited intervention. He employed a minimal amount of resources and once he'd achieved his objectives of showing Russia mattered and restoring a semblance of stability to the client regime in advance of peace talks, he leaves.
17
Interesting how Putin pulls out just as it is revealed that Al-Assad's regime is tied to working with ISIS against the insurgents that would topple his regime...
Perhaps Putin does not want to look like he is tied to ISIS?
Perhaps Putin does not want to look like he is tied to ISIS?
8
March 14, 2016
As well let's consider that Afghanistan is about the international coalition to engage in an agenda that is fully published online and its goal to continue to offer faith in a modern social development on many decent and needed fronts for the long term. Is Russia in the coalition well let's say yes in the geopolitical tolerances for advancing the neighborhood.
jja Manhattan. N.Y.
As well let's consider that Afghanistan is about the international coalition to engage in an agenda that is fully published online and its goal to continue to offer faith in a modern social development on many decent and needed fronts for the long term. Is Russia in the coalition well let's say yes in the geopolitical tolerances for advancing the neighborhood.
jja Manhattan. N.Y.
1
Russia is a petro-state. Anyone check the price of a barrel of oil lately? Putin is fast running out of money. We'll probably be forced to borrow more to pay our military-industrial complex and the members of congress in the pocket of Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon and the hundreds of other military hardware contractors.
5
It's going to be so funny when Obama takes credit for this.
6
Haha!
Putin would fly to Washington and hit Obama in the face with a shoe if he did.
Putin would fly to Washington and hit Obama in the face with a shoe if he did.
3
Don't jump the gun. Obama hasn't come out to take any credit for it, as funny as it might be to you.
1
Does this mean that our allies, Qatar & Saudi Arabia, are going to stop supporting and arming the rebels?
If enough Americans figure out that we are supporting the very Sunni regimes that provide funding, and more importantly, ideological justification for radical Islamic jihadists that have destroyed Syria (and Libya), these policies will come to an end.
The Qataris used to hold conferences to recruit jihadists to invade Syria, and they have developed a large Muslim Brotherhood network. Most, if not all, of our Gulf buddies live under Sharia law, including stoning for adultery.
The truth is that this "civil" war is largely a war of aggression by our Sunni allies to overthrow the Shia backed dictator to score a geopolitical advantage.
How is bringing the Syrian people under the control of sharia law and a Sunni friendly dictator an improvement over the religiously tolerant Assad?
The Jerusalem Post recently had a front page picture of an Israeli official shaking hands with his Saudi counterpart, affirming their alliance in wanting to be the two powers that control the region.
It is completely delusional to think that the Israelis and Saudis will crush the Persians and the Shia forever.
Our allies are jackals circling Syria hoping to divide the carcass, and the U.S. is guilty of aiding and abetting this crime.
There HAS to be a three-way power sharing agreement between the 3 big regional players: Sunni, Shia, Israel.
Americans are sick of this nonsense.
If enough Americans figure out that we are supporting the very Sunni regimes that provide funding, and more importantly, ideological justification for radical Islamic jihadists that have destroyed Syria (and Libya), these policies will come to an end.
The Qataris used to hold conferences to recruit jihadists to invade Syria, and they have developed a large Muslim Brotherhood network. Most, if not all, of our Gulf buddies live under Sharia law, including stoning for adultery.
The truth is that this "civil" war is largely a war of aggression by our Sunni allies to overthrow the Shia backed dictator to score a geopolitical advantage.
How is bringing the Syrian people under the control of sharia law and a Sunni friendly dictator an improvement over the religiously tolerant Assad?
The Jerusalem Post recently had a front page picture of an Israeli official shaking hands with his Saudi counterpart, affirming their alliance in wanting to be the two powers that control the region.
It is completely delusional to think that the Israelis and Saudis will crush the Persians and the Shia forever.
Our allies are jackals circling Syria hoping to divide the carcass, and the U.S. is guilty of aiding and abetting this crime.
There HAS to be a three-way power sharing agreement between the 3 big regional players: Sunni, Shia, Israel.
Americans are sick of this nonsense.
13
Mr. Putin's message is as loud and clear as it can be, and is only peripherally about Syria. It states in bold letters and tones that Mr. Putin will militarily go in and out wherever and whenever he chooses without notice and without explanation. He will do so with his agenda alone and will achieve his own goals fully and without mercy to those whom he chooses to act against. Miss or ignore this message at your own peril is his footnote.
2
Why, I'd just let him. Syria is another quagmire that we don't want to touch anyways (and for good reasons). If Putin wants it, he can have it all. But apparently he's done with Assad the toy boy.
1
Unlike the US, Russia has not had the opportunity to regularly use their weapons and systems. Syria has given Russia a real world use of weapons and given pilots and others real combat experience, even if not as tested against a formidable enemy as they may encounter. Syria may have been a live weapons training ground as much as an effort to poke a stick in the eye of President Obama.
3
"Mr. Putin’s announcement appeared to catch the United States and other Western countries by surprise"...Imagine that!
In every instance Mr. Putin has managed to surprise. As usual, though not said, Mr. Obama and his administration is asleep at the wheel.
Putin is once again a hero and Obama and the United States is not even in the game.
Tragically the war continues. The mass exodus of refugees has had the impact of Europe the Putin could force and took advantage of. Now that he has weakened Europe, NATO and the United States, he smartly leaves.
In every instance Mr. Putin has managed to surprise. As usual, though not said, Mr. Obama and his administration is asleep at the wheel.
Putin is once again a hero and Obama and the United States is not even in the game.
Tragically the war continues. The mass exodus of refugees has had the impact of Europe the Putin could force and took advantage of. Now that he has weakened Europe, NATO and the United States, he smartly leaves.
4
Putin's message is that it's all over but the heavy lifting. Others can do the heavy lifting.
Not a bad way to do business. Go in with a limited mission and leave. Maybe we could learn from Putin and replace our jump into quicksand and flail strategy.
2
Since Putin's government lies on every statement he makes for the last few years, the clarification on "the goals are achieved" actually made me more comfortable. This probably means that he failed at achieving the goals, not the fact that he's not withdrawing, as I thought initially.
1
Hmm... Did Putin make his announcement on the deck of an aircraft carrier and declare the "Mission Accomplished"?
6
The title of Mr. Putin's new autobiography:
"Jerking Around President Obama for
Fun and Profit"
Look for it soon in your library or book store.
"Jerking Around President Obama for
Fun and Profit"
Look for it soon in your library or book store.
5
Wise decision. Putin watched what happened when the Soviets occupied Afghanistan on and on in the 1980s. The U.S. dispensed with any caution and pumped up crazed Islamic militants in both Afghanistan and Pakistan full of money and deadly weapons to fight the communists. Saudi Arabia flooded world markets with oil and promptly tanked the oil revenue dependent Soviet economy so badly that the whole Cold War ended by 1989 in addition to Moscow's Afghan campaign.
Leave the Arabs of Syria to govern themselves. Come on, Damascus was the seat of the Ummayad Caliphate! It's the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth. To this day, does George W. Bush even know that Baghdad was the seat of the succeeding Abbasid Caliphate?
Leave the Arabs of Syria to govern themselves. Come on, Damascus was the seat of the Ummayad Caliphate! It's the oldest continuously inhabited city on earth. To this day, does George W. Bush even know that Baghdad was the seat of the succeeding Abbasid Caliphate?
6
NY Times missed that Putin also said that the airbase that had been installed for this operation, will stay there and work "in the same order". Just in case.
5
This could set Vladimir Putin up for the Nobel Peace Prize if it works.
This will be the second time Putin saved Obama's backside in Syria, and if the peace talks work, and Syrians start going back to Syria, you're going to see a touchdown dance by Putin that the NFL players might copy next season.
This will be the second time Putin saved Obama's backside in Syria, and if the peace talks work, and Syrians start going back to Syria, you're going to see a touchdown dance by Putin that the NFL players might copy next season.
5
Now Vladimir has time to come out and help his, and your, buddy Donald. Just think of the spark Vladimir would give Donald's campaign. Do not think that Putin will put up with the protesters either, isn't that right Donald!
5
I know how much you Trump supporters love the murderous dictator Putin, but he won't get any prize for this. He did nothing in Syria but kill people, nothing has changed, the peace talks will not work, Syrians will not voluntarily repatriate. And we've never seen Putin dance. Really remarkable how intently, willfully delusional Trump supporters are.
6
Despite attempts to create a different "narrative" for Obama in Syria, his legacy will always be the "red line." Few took him seriously after that. Some, not before either.
1
Obama sat back and allowed Putin to enter Syria because he understood the economic consequences and now Putin's walking away just six months later with his tail between his legs saying "Mission Accomplished!" in his best Texas accent.
Wonder how the right will spin this one...
Wonder how the right will spin this one...
10
Truth be told, Syria is not our war, it's not Russia's war either. If the Sunnis and Shiites and Kurds and the rest want to kill themselves over it, it's a war they have to decide on, why would we meddle into it?
1
I suspect Putin only agreed to offer the minimum needed to help Assad save face in return for the naval base. If the naval base is secure, Putin might not care if Assad stays in power or not. I've got to believe Putin must be disgusted with him.
Putin's strategic move is a good example to setting clear objectives, guarding boundaries and avoiding the quagmire. Maybe he did accomplish his mission.
Putin's strategic move is a good example to setting clear objectives, guarding boundaries and avoiding the quagmire. Maybe he did accomplish his mission.
5
While Putin might not care much about Assad's well-being, he does need to ensure his base is safe and secure. Like it or not, Assad is the only man standing between ISIL and the rest of the world. Yes, Assad has done really bad things, but so had every other strongmen in that region. Should Assad fall, none of Putin's gains in Syria would be secure, you can be sure of that. That is, unless there's another alternative standing in line to take over from Assad, but we already know there is no one.
1
Since we have no idea what the "'overall completion' of Moscow’s military mission" means, beyond analyses and proclamations of success or failure are totally meaningless.
Putin is an enigma. With this 'surprise' move, the future of Syria is now more unpredictable than it was just yesterday.
Putin is an enigma. With this 'surprise' move, the future of Syria is now more unpredictable than it was just yesterday.
2
With summer coming and heat stress from wearing NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) garb as the threat of mustard gas artillery attacks lurk with every passing day it makes sense to cut and run before more Russians are sent home in body bags.
I am certain the remaining Iranian stoolies supporting Assad will be just as effective as before in killing & victimizing the innocent.
I am certain the remaining Iranian stoolies supporting Assad will be just as effective as before in killing & victimizing the innocent.
An American President once said, regarding the Russians, "Trust but verify."
The devil is in the details, as always. On the surface, just great!!! We'll see.
The devil is in the details, as always. On the surface, just great!!! We'll see.
1
Now that Putin is scaling down after bombing the hell out of the rebels, we can join hands with our terrorist sponsoring buddies, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, to re-arm these same rebels so we can kill another quarter of a million people over the next 5 years. Wait till Clinton gets into office, I reckon 50k US boots on the ground by 2018.
8
FINALLY..Putin's mistake has been corrected..
We cannot know what goes on behind closed diplomatic sessions, but it would not surprise if Mr. Putin and President Obama came to an agreement that allows Mr. Putin to save face and gives President Obama the ability to move to the next phase in the attempt to end this bloody and costly war.
1
If humiliating President Obama on the world stage was the goal - Mission Accomplished Vlad.
6
It was only an embarrassment to Obama when the Russians were working against his interests. Now that Putin is bowing out, Obama can go back to embarrassing himself and the rest of us. No Russian intervention needed.
3
Too bad Putin didn't land on an aircraft carrier and announce this in front of a "Mission Accomplished" banner.
5
So I wonder what Putin is really doing and why. As someone has already pointed out here, Putin is one of the most difficult leaders to analyze or predict. One thing for sure, the stated rationale is not the real reason he is "withdrawing" -- if he does.
2
He accomplished his main goal. When Putin intervened, Assad was basically saying that his military couldn't go on the offensive, and soon wouldn't be very effective defensively. Assad had lost a lot of ground and totally lost any initiative. In sum, he was about to lose. So the Russians came in, stopped the rebel advances, brought time for Assad, allowed other players to contribute bodies to the fight, and now Assad is advancing. Mission accomplished. As long as Assad is in the fight, the Russians have won.
1
We need to be talking about how to increase the influence of Putin and Russia in the USA, and decrease the influence of less competent factions within the US government who thought nobody could pull the rug out from under their platform of corpulent frivolity and theft.
March 14, 2016
I would ponder the mind of the elite apparatchik in its passion for the games of:
“A chess game is divided into three stages: the first, when you hope you have the advantage, the second when you believe you have an advantage, and the third... when you know you're going to lose!” – Tartakower
“All that matters on the chessboard is good moves.” - Bobby Fischer
“The pawns are the soul of chess.” – Philidor
http://www.chesscorner.com/quotes/chess_quotes.htm
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
I would ponder the mind of the elite apparatchik in its passion for the games of:
“A chess game is divided into three stages: the first, when you hope you have the advantage, the second when you believe you have an advantage, and the third... when you know you're going to lose!” – Tartakower
“All that matters on the chessboard is good moves.” - Bobby Fischer
“The pawns are the soul of chess.” – Philidor
http://www.chesscorner.com/quotes/chess_quotes.htm
JJA Manhattan, N. Y.
1
As far as I know ISIS is still at work. Guess we know what Putin's goals weren't eh?
3
Ukraine, watch out! Putin has now more bandwidth to separate the Eastern Ukraine and annex it from the mainland.
How much should you be compensated for all of the destruction and havoc that Kremlin has caused in the last 2 years?
How much should you be compensated for all of the destruction and havoc that Kremlin has caused in the last 2 years?
3
Ever since the Cold War, Russia/the Soviet Union has "withdrawn" troops from a battle zone only to replace them with fresh troops. Some countries call this rotation.
2
Few people are well informed. This does not mean "Mission Accomplished" in terms of Bush-Obama-speak. This is the beginning of withdrawal because the political solution is virtually imminent. All detractors who conspired to bring down the regime in Syria have been silenced. New parliamentary elections have been scheduled, and the president of the country remains in power.
9
On the contrary, it seems that Assad is being very intransigent in terms of terms with the rebels. And do you really believe Assad will step down after any "election"?
1
I don't know what happened here, but, whatever it is, it's (a) bad and (b) Obama's fault.
5
Hey Obama haters, be sure to remind us how Putin's military retreat and waste of precious national resources is a direct reflection of our President's fecklessness or whatever.
28
Well stated!!!!
1
"Goals are achieved," I ran that through Google Translate for Putin dialect to English, and it came back with: "I've destroyed enough of the opposition."
4
I see a parallel between Putin and Bush Sr. Both are ex-intelligence officer and know when to use force to achieve an object and when to stop as not to make things worse. Vietnam, Libya and Soviet in Afghanistan are example of open-ended operation that have no end game planned nor objective clarified. The first Desert Storm and Russian intervention in Syria are by contrast close-ended operation that achieved their objectives.
Syrian government now control enough ground to successfully push back ISIS and negotiate from a strong position at any future peace talk. Putin showed he is willing to back an ally at its most needed time but not get overly involved. NATO and Gulf allies on the other hands still present themselves as disorganized and leaderless with various countries funding different ISIS factions that battles each other.
For people thinking this has to do with low oil price... you don't know Russian. They are the type of people that will fight on even with no food and ammo. They don't go from being subjugated by the Tatar and Poles to having the biggest empire by being weak.
Syrian government now control enough ground to successfully push back ISIS and negotiate from a strong position at any future peace talk. Putin showed he is willing to back an ally at its most needed time but not get overly involved. NATO and Gulf allies on the other hands still present themselves as disorganized and leaderless with various countries funding different ISIS factions that battles each other.
For people thinking this has to do with low oil price... you don't know Russian. They are the type of people that will fight on even with no food and ammo. They don't go from being subjugated by the Tatar and Poles to having the biggest empire by being weak.
12
Meanwhile President Peace Prize has kept us in Afghanistan for his entire term with no plans to bring our troops home. He's sending more to Iraq, and has bombed nearly twice as many countries (seven) as his "cowboy" predecessor (four).
15
If and when the fighting resumes in full (with or without Russians), it will be far worse than ever before as all confidence in peace and talking will be lost. One way or another, Syria faces a major turning point 5 years into this war.
1
If nothing else, Putin likely realizes that Syria is a quagmire that is likely to defy any rational, near-term solution and he's decided to extricate himself. He got what he wanted, which was a chance to flex his muscle with a stage-managed intervention. Now, he's simply declaring victory and going home. I'm sure the financial strain of his military adventures, coupled with the precipitous drop in oil prices, may have brought this pantomime to a premature end. Too bad some of our leaders, including the GOP presidential wannabe pack, would happily bankrupt our country to keep their fantasy of military solutions alive and well.
14
I had thought that President Putin had justified Russia's intervention, as declared before the UN general assembly in Sept. of last year, as the defeat of terrorists and in particular ISIS. I thought that Putin had amplified this goal after ISIS linked militants brought down the Russian airliner over Sinai. I thought he had said much the same to President Hollande when the French president had gone to Moscow after the Paris attacks. Where is the international solidarity that Putin proclaimed only 6 months ago vis a vis the fight against terrorists?
5
Now that Il Putinisimo's collapsing Russian economy can't afford any more Syrian adventurism...and now that little Marco Rubio's GOP Clown Show appearance is over, perhaps Senator Rubio would like to be the new United States war emissary to Syria and travel there and look for new and creative ways to jump-start the smoldering war there.
I mean what kind of country is America if we can't be perpetually entangled in a deadly world war somewhere on the planet ?
Marco Rubio 2020: War, War...What Are We Waiting For !
I mean what kind of country is America if we can't be perpetually entangled in a deadly world war somewhere on the planet ?
Marco Rubio 2020: War, War...What Are We Waiting For !
179
Not just Rubio, others as well including Clinton.
1
Your anti Russian bigotry is like that of Republicans, making you blind to the truth. Putin quitting while he is ahead and HAS achieved the LIMITED goals he set himself is SMART not 'weak'. To stabilize the Assad Regime, whose country WE have helped destroy (like we have Iraq and even worse Libya; (thanks Hillery!!) by, like John McCain, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and Bibi Netanayu wanted, destroying Assad by arming ISIS.
This mess started by GW has been allowed to continue as our AIPAC and pentagon led foreign policy ned wars to continue pouring gasoline on the fires of the ME. Calling yourself 'Socrates' and being an 'approved' writer here at the times. means that you are just another Democrat stooge of the permanent killing machine not the impartial sage you think you are.
Since WW II we the US have killed far more than any other nation. 10's of millions in fact. Compared ot that the Russian have been boy scouts (they are nt that but everything is relative). The Contra's, Angola and Jonas Savimbi (20? million dead in 25 years). Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Grenada, Columbia, Chile, Ukraine (and that's just off the top of my head (I Am sure there are many others I have forgotten).
You and other here may think of themselves as peace loving and civilized but that is YOUR narcissism and self willed ignorance speaking. It is NOT wisdom!
This mess started by GW has been allowed to continue as our AIPAC and pentagon led foreign policy ned wars to continue pouring gasoline on the fires of the ME. Calling yourself 'Socrates' and being an 'approved' writer here at the times. means that you are just another Democrat stooge of the permanent killing machine not the impartial sage you think you are.
Since WW II we the US have killed far more than any other nation. 10's of millions in fact. Compared ot that the Russian have been boy scouts (they are nt that but everything is relative). The Contra's, Angola and Jonas Savimbi (20? million dead in 25 years). Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Grenada, Columbia, Chile, Ukraine (and that's just off the top of my head (I Am sure there are many others I have forgotten).
You and other here may think of themselves as peace loving and civilized but that is YOUR narcissism and self willed ignorance speaking. It is NOT wisdom!
1
Unfortunately, Putin's actions were perfect and on-point for himself. He did exactly what he wanted to do, making himself his own hero, without sinking into the quagmire, and leaving the mess and ISIS for everyone else. Now Assad will have to deal with ISIS himself, the moderates and Kurds can be armed to fight against him and ISIS, and the refugees re-patriated to Syria.
4
It is certainly premature to predict an end to the fighting in Syria, but between the cease-fire, which seem to be holding, the UN efforts to get talks started, and now the Russian withdrawal, it may well be that even Assad has to recognize the hopelessness of his position.
Of course, Libya shows that even a removal of Assad will not mean that stability will return to Syria, but it could well mean that the all-out "hot" civil war will come to an end. This would have three hugely important beneficial effects:
(1) the mass casualties would stop, or at least be dramatically reduced;
(2) ISIS would loose Syria as a safe-haven
(3) Syrian refugees would stop flowing into Europe, and some might actually start returning home.
Of course, Libya shows that even a removal of Assad will not mean that stability will return to Syria, but it could well mean that the all-out "hot" civil war will come to an end. This would have three hugely important beneficial effects:
(1) the mass casualties would stop, or at least be dramatically reduced;
(2) ISIS would loose Syria as a safe-haven
(3) Syrian refugees would stop flowing into Europe, and some might actually start returning home.
2
Actually Assad is stronger than ever. Russian bombing helped him increase his holding so at the negotiation table, he have to be included in any future plan for Syria. And as the Russian are winding down bombing sorties, Assad can say he is not fighting with foreign mercenaries unlike the "moderate rebels" and ISIS.
Think of it this way, the three players in Syria are the government, NATO backed rebels and Gulf states funded ISIS. No one can openly claim sponsorship of ISIS so it will not be included in any talk. That left the now much weaker rebels to settle with the much stronger government... everything to Assad and Putin's favor.
Think of it this way, the three players in Syria are the government, NATO backed rebels and Gulf states funded ISIS. No one can openly claim sponsorship of ISIS so it will not be included in any talk. That left the now much weaker rebels to settle with the much stronger government... everything to Assad and Putin's favor.
2
Wrong on all accounts, they are only Withdrawing their fighting planes. They made arrangement to build a base in Syria. They are a permanent fixture there. Turkey is bombing the Kurd's flying into Syria that they always wanted, a pretext to do that. Isis is still in Syria and now dispersed in Europe.The only thing Russians achieved is bombing the crap out of civilians that fought the military regime and ISIL. The Russians just showed that they can do whatever they choose, made all those Syrians flood into the EU as a payback for interfering in the Ukraine.Now watch the next move, this only emboldened that buddy of Assad, crazy Pooptin
1
My humble opinion....those Syrian refugees were flooding into Europe long before Russia was involved. Please, some of us read and know what is going on.
1
What Russia has done in short order is stop the destruction of Syria by wildly violent sectarian insurgents. I find this only worthy of praise.
79
Dear Nancy,
It would be, but unfortunately he failed to stop the destruction, and it's still going on today at the same pace it has for years.
It would be, but unfortunately he failed to stop the destruction, and it's still going on today at the same pace it has for years.
7
Geez. In your eyes Russia can do no wrong. Putin can no longer afford to fight in this war. He has done nothing but drain more resources from his people.
6
Russia has killed a lot of Syrians on top of the ones already killed by Assad and that hasn't stopped the civil war in the least bit. No matter what kind of spin you want to put on this.
Well I'd bet that the goal which was actually achieved was, Putin found out that pacifying the rebels and isis in Syria was not achievable or cost-effective using bombing runs. Certainly peace has not broken out, nor has Assad reclaimed the entire nation.
And Putin is basically right, it would be terribly expensive to bomb Syria sufficiently that the fighting would stop, and it would take years. Realistically, there is no end in sight to the fighting, because it's a religious imperative to the combatants, and they have nothing else to live for except killing.
Unfortunately, what will most likely happen is that the senseless fighting will continue until Syria has run out of enough water and infrastructure to render it basically uninhabitable. That won't take terribly long at the current rate. After that the world will have to decide what to do with the millions of Syrian refugees that survive, but nobody will be able to live in Syria again for the forseeable future, so at least the war will permanently end.
Overall I think Putin was right, unless he wanted to expend a lot more money and manpower to completely conquer and rule Syria, nothing he did was going to make much difference. And who would want to take over Syria? It has not much in the way of resources and not much longer to be habitable before it dehydrates completely.
And Putin is basically right, it would be terribly expensive to bomb Syria sufficiently that the fighting would stop, and it would take years. Realistically, there is no end in sight to the fighting, because it's a religious imperative to the combatants, and they have nothing else to live for except killing.
Unfortunately, what will most likely happen is that the senseless fighting will continue until Syria has run out of enough water and infrastructure to render it basically uninhabitable. That won't take terribly long at the current rate. After that the world will have to decide what to do with the millions of Syrian refugees that survive, but nobody will be able to live in Syria again for the forseeable future, so at least the war will permanently end.
Overall I think Putin was right, unless he wanted to expend a lot more money and manpower to completely conquer and rule Syria, nothing he did was going to make much difference. And who would want to take over Syria? It has not much in the way of resources and not much longer to be habitable before it dehydrates completely.
11
What does Trump have to say about his hero now?
4
Scuttlebutt around my digital water cooler says that The Donald leaned on him. No threat of violence, of course.
1
Trump may very well see as just a wise business move on Putin's part - the same way Trump knows when and how to pull the plug on a deal that's gone south and file for bankruptcy. Now it's likely to be us holding the bag after all our feckless bluster and meddling there, because somehow our name's going to end up on the final bill of sale.
1
Perhaps Putin is following Senator Aiken's advice about Vietnam: declare victory and leave. If only LBJ had been so wise.
47
Wisdom had nothing to do with it. LBJ's ego killed our soldiers not the VC. And don't forget Nixon's role in continuing the massacre of US troops.
2
I guess Putin's military infomercial is over.
How did they do with signing up new customers?
How did they do with signing up new customers?
7
Obama was clueless ~ and that comes from spending his time at the SXSW music festival and sampling the tacos there, instead of trying to be knowledgeable about fast-moving world events such as Russia's movements in Syria and China's de-factor occupation in the West Philippine Sea
13
And you know he was clueless because he keeps you updated constantly on what information he possesses? Or is it that you just hate him for no good reason, like most Republicans, and in the standard Republican way you make up some ridiculous lies slandering him?
10
Now, if he said he had negotiated a Russian withdrawal behind the scenes and public ally announced it, Putin would have seen as weak and left the force in place.
I'm sure would have handled things differently and, of course, much better.
I'm sure would have handled things differently and, of course, much better.
What's West Philippine Sea? I don't see such entry from International Hydrographic Organization which is the authority UN refers to for nautical charting.
7
Putin has achieved a great victory for the Syrian people who can now work towards a more lasting peace under the leadership of whomever they choose to elect, be it Assad or someone else. Syria will not become a Libya-styled destroyed country.
It's now time for the USA, the EU, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to back off militarily, support the peace process and the sovereignty of Syria, and end regime change madness.
Thank you Russia! You'll make a great partner against radical Islamic terrorism as soon as we learn from our hegemonic delirium and regime change folly (and horror!). Hopefully that won't take too long!
New York Times, please publish balanced and encouraging news articles and editorials. Walk towards the light!
It's now time for the USA, the EU, Turkey and Saudi Arabia to back off militarily, support the peace process and the sovereignty of Syria, and end regime change madness.
Thank you Russia! You'll make a great partner against radical Islamic terrorism as soon as we learn from our hegemonic delirium and regime change folly (and horror!). Hopefully that won't take too long!
New York Times, please publish balanced and encouraging news articles and editorials. Walk towards the light!
89
What peace process? What elections? Syria has already become a destroyed country. Was this comment a joke or just completely delusional?
7
I don't know what the next stage or stages in this horrible conflict will be, but I'm sure Syria already qualifies as a "destroyed country."
3
@Dan Stackhouse
Relax.
Every time Russia/Putin is mentioned in the Times, the Russian shills come out in droves. (You can tell some, but not all, by their imperfect English.)
Relax.
Every time Russia/Putin is mentioned in the Times, the Russian shills come out in droves. (You can tell some, but not all, by their imperfect English.)
7
Say what you will about his guy, but he sure could teach our military-industrial-politician-lobbyist-media-pundit class a thing or two.
67
And I still think Vlad and Rudy Guliani make a cute couple.
4
Russia probably knows a lost cause when they see it. The same was true for Afghanistan, yet we're still there. Our clean-up chores just got exponentially bigger, and is still growing down in Libya, as well. I suppose we shouldn't expect to see much money left for here at home once all the repair estimates from all over the region get totaled up. Easy come, easy go, I guess.
10
At least they know when to get out unlike foolish America which wastes trillions of dollars on stupidity. For all the smack talk about the Russians they have gotten smarter and dont waste precious resources on foolish behavior. We need to take a page out of their playbook when you go to war you get in and get out.
64
That is not what America and the military industrial congrsessional complex are all about. They are about weaponizing the world
We've put the Russians into the position of needing to withdraw by our oil production. With a glut of oil on the market and prices low, Russia has less room to operate. That is how smart presidents win wars - soft power.
President Obama played the hare to Putin's rabbit and the hare is second to the finish line. Sometimes intelligence counts for more than posturing. I don't know who Putin thinks he's fooling. Unless it's Donald Trump.
11
Ah yes, the famous parable of the rabbit and the hare. Wait what?? lolz
2
soxared.... Methinks he's fooling the tortoise.
3
Now that the flow of refugees into Europe has be halted why continue to bomb the children since families can no longer burden aid agencies.
1
The outpouring of refugees has not halted, but increased. As for why bomb children, it's kind of traditional in the region.
Russia is pulling out without accomplishing anything decisively. It would appear that it was just show to appear that Russia is still a super power instead of wobbly petro-state with a would be czar who likes to create illusions of grandeur for his insecure people.
21
I'd say "delusions of of grandeur"
3
I was alluding to another time when Potemkin created what appeared to be prosperous villages to display for the ruler's benefit.
1
Casual Observer, this is the best comment I've read! I agree that Russia appears to have not accomplished anything of tangible value, other than to create an illusion of it's "past" greatness.
3
Nobody has a clue about what to do in this part of the world.
4
Here's a clue: maybe we should stay out of conflicts more than a thousand years old. If we could get off our oil jones we could let the people there fight it out among themselves.
It can hardly be on the behalf of peace that Mr. Putin has pulled out his air force. It may be more likely that he has come to realize that air power alone is not enough. He already has boots on the ground in Ukraine and more boots in Syria would only invite more unrest at home and achieve nothing against some fanatical opponents on the ground like ISIS. He still has his naval base and therefore can continue to create problems in the region from this sanctuary.
1
Stephen...We invaded Afghanistan when our supposed goal was to take out bin-Laden, we invaded and occupy Iraq for no purpose other than to quote Dick Cheney, "We Could", we bombed Libya to the point of no return to a civil society, we have bombed for almost 2 years Syria into a disaster of humanity. This in order to support Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Israel, who wanted to prevent Iran from gaining more influence with Assad. Remember Saudi Arabia helped the nascent "Sunni" ISIS organization with its deep pockets of support.
So who is really creating problems in the region? Do not live your life with blinders on.
So who is really creating problems in the region? Do not live your life with blinders on.
4
Exasctly how is this a surprise? When the Russians started this mission in September, they said it would last about six months. Six months later they are ending it. Is the Obama administration surprised that Russians follow through on their promises? Or are thry just surprised that Russia does not conform to the boogeyman they've painted it as?
It is delusional and self-destructive to ignore what a person says because you "know" what they really mean, only to be shocked to find they actually meant what they said. Next thing you know the White House will be expressing bewilderment that the Ukrainian government is propped up by neo-Nazis. This is not a good way for America to act; in the end Americans will be the ones most hurt.
It is delusional and self-destructive to ignore what a person says because you "know" what they really mean, only to be shocked to find they actually meant what they said. Next thing you know the White House will be expressing bewilderment that the Ukrainian government is propped up by neo-Nazis. This is not a good way for America to act; in the end Americans will be the ones most hurt.
57
Chill, Jamil -- if Trump is driving the clown car we can't possibly get hurt. He'll believe everything his buddy Putin says, and vice versa, Buckle your seat-belt just in case.
2
Did Putin puff himself up, bare chested and on horseback, and say: "Mission accomplished." ?
17
Now wait for the ramp up in the Ukraine and things to get much worse.
5
Just as when the Russians moved into Syria, I'm sure Obama and Kerry were equally clueless about the news of Russia's partial troop evacuation.
Doesn't Obama realize his responsibilities go beyond our coastlines?
Doesn't Obama realize his responsibilities go beyond our coastlines?
5
Um, no, Obama's responsibilities END at our borders.
4
I wonder if Republicans will acknowledge that Obama predicted Russia was walking into a quagmire.
In case anyone hasn't noticed...no American soldier has died in Syria. Thank God we have a president who carefully considers our options.
In case anyone hasn't noticed...no American soldier has died in Syria. Thank God we have a president who carefully considers our options.
513
And please God, deliver us from Drumpf.
4
How many Russians have died in Syria?
2
In case Sam hasn't noticed, more Americans died in Afghanistan under Obama than under W, and Obama still refuses to pull us out of THAT quagmire.
2
GOP Presidential contenders, take note: if Putin can't find a military strategy to take out ISIS in Syria, neither can you. No more empty rhetoric about "carpet-bombing" or making the sand glow in the dark. None of you four men is tougher or more determined than Putin, so stop posturing otherwise.
395
Keep in mind that ISIS/ISIL/Daesh was not Russia's primary focus. Maintaining Syria as a sovereign state and slowing down regime change and "color" revolutions promulgated by the West were more important aims for Russia.
13
Exactly, rmreddicks. The reason "Putin can't find a military strategy to take out ISIS in Syria", NM, was because he wasn't looking for that in the first place. Instead, he sought to find people *helping* take IS (and the also-vile Assad) out, and Obama rightly decided both not to attack the Russians and not to give away the forces' locations as Russia hoped. There's a lot of things wrong in Syria but Obama's strategy there is not among them.
Of course, the GOP contenders are not at all "tougher or more determined than Putin", and generally horribly wrong for the US, for innumerable other reasons.
Of course, the GOP contenders are not at all "tougher or more determined than Putin", and generally horribly wrong for the US, for innumerable other reasons.
2
Well, "tougher" not really. He just has the kind of government that allows for an essentially dictatorial power. Let's not try that out here.
3
Putin for 2016. Much better than all the wimps (yeah, even Trump). Now, that is a man.
3
Hey, wait, just a few more dead journalists and political rivals and it could happen. Welcome to the Idiocracy!
3
Have you EVER lived in Russia?
3
....really really hope you're being sarcastic....really
"Mission accomplished"
29
So Russia is withdrawing from Syria. But where are they redeploying to? Their border area along the eastern Ukraine?
5
Ah, Mission Accomplished. Sure. Let's see how long Assad's decimated army can hold the gains. 3 months? 3 weeks? My money says Russian intervention will resume if and when the price of oil goes back to $50 and they can afford to rearm those planes.
10
What? Vlad lands bare-chested on Russian aircraft carrier off Syrian coast Where's the "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner? (Haven't we seen this movie before?)
9
Training is over, who's next?
5
Precisely.
3
Does that mean Turkey can start bombing the Kurds in N.Syrai again like they are doing in N.iraq?
2
Did they ever stop? Turkey bombing Kurds is pretty much something that's gone on continuously since WW1 or so.
2
The Turks have already been doing that. There is an awful lot of selective omission in Western media, which is why I read news from a variety of countries and recommend others do too.
3
Great! if we follow suit by stopping our support of the rebels waging war, then this can be done soon.
6
Putin is smart. He knows when to declare victory and leave on a high note!
58
What high, where is the high? This civil war is still dragging on no matter how many Syrians Putin has killed.
now that the war is over all the refugees can go home.
6
The fall in oil prices got to Putin. Costly wars when the country's economy is falling will eventually take a toll.
121
Isn't that EXACTLY what President Obama said?
4
I don't buy that theory. Putin was able to demonstrate a revived, competent military, with new and successful hardware for sales and influence in future markets/wars, and accomplish limited, defined objectives with minimal cost, while the Republicans continue to deliberately bankrupt through endless, limitless war, the US government so that they can, for reasons that still escape me, shred the social safety net.
Social Security, which is required by law to buy Treasuries, is either the largest or close, to the the largest, creditor of the US.
Fighting unfunded wars is a main cause of the ballooning deficit but the oligarchs need the viable professional army to defend the foreign trade. Social services and infrastructure will pay for the globalist-imperialist army.
Russia was the big winner in Syria, Those who think otherwise, i.e., that Russia had to cut and run, are deluded.
Social Security, which is required by law to buy Treasuries, is either the largest or close, to the the largest, creditor of the US.
Fighting unfunded wars is a main cause of the ballooning deficit but the oligarchs need the viable professional army to defend the foreign trade. Social services and infrastructure will pay for the globalist-imperialist army.
Russia was the big winner in Syria, Those who think otherwise, i.e., that Russia had to cut and run, are deluded.
5
Putin probably saw how this adventure was draining resources form his already reeling economy. And I don't think that Russian mothers relished the idea of their sons being killed in Syria. Obama was right not to over-react to Putin's initial heightened intervention.
345
Obama is brilliant.
What the Republicans call "leading from behind" caused Putin to be so overexposed -- something that made him very reliant on a US presence, and an increasing one at that.
What the Republicans call "leading from behind" caused Putin to be so overexposed -- something that made him very reliant on a US presence, and an increasing one at that.
300
You can say that again! Yes OBAMA IS BRILLIANT!
160
Obama was smart enough to give him an out. Obama didn't commit additional forces to turn Syria into a US/USSR (I know Russia) proxy war. Instead he asked Putin, do you really want to be a pawn for a Sunni/Shiite proxy war in which the blow back will land on your shores? Now we are back to where we started, a dead lock in which only a political solution will solve, but with a ceasefire & no chemical weapons. Yea, thanks Obama.
24
Obama is not brilliant. The US energy industry is brilliant, and has succeeded in serving the interests of our country despite being constantly villainized by your unworthy hero.
2
Didn't someone suggest we do the same in Vietnam a long time ago? Declare victory and go home?
140
Yes the did but they waited too long...58,000 American soldiers dead in Vietnam and for what? The ego's of LBJ & Nixon pure and simple. Both should have been tried for war crimes as should Rumsfeld, Bush 43, Cheney. America never learns.
20
Which we could have done until Tet...
It has to be noted that Putin just stated that the Tartus and Hmeynmin bases in Syria will remain. So while this indicates a drawing down of Russian forces, it is no means a sign of Russia withdrawing completely from Syria. Putin has to be one of the hardest leaders in the world to predict, I doubt a single analyst saw this coming.
8
WWII ended in 1945, yet we still have bases in Okinawa and Berlin.
The Russians will maintain their base, like we do in every country we ever invaded.
The Russians will maintain their base, like we do in every country we ever invaded.
38
any country where the U.S. has a base is asked to be there bottom line....and if the host country wants us to leave we do...Just like the Philippines or Spain....
1
In reply to Said Ordaz
Corrections:
The American military left Berlin in September 1994. I was there.
The Russians are known to be masters of bold moves.
Assad will stay in power and Russia will retain its air base in Latakia, Syria and its naval base in Tartus,Syria.
From
MLMJ, a former New Yorker
Corrections:
The American military left Berlin in September 1994. I was there.
The Russians are known to be masters of bold moves.
Assad will stay in power and Russia will retain its air base in Latakia, Syria and its naval base in Tartus,Syria.
From
MLMJ, a former New Yorker
1
The only way this announcement could have been more perfect is if he made from the deck of an aircraft carrier wearing a flight suit.
387
Dont forget the ign saying "Mission Accomplished!"
6
You are thinking of GW Putin, yes?
Russia does not have an aircraft carrier. The last one under construction was sold to China.
Putin's mission is accomplished?
Exactly what was his mission?
He's withdrawing part of his military on Tuesday?
Which part?
What about the remaining part, what are they going to be doing?
Any details with this statement?
Exactly what was his mission?
He's withdrawing part of his military on Tuesday?
Which part?
What about the remaining part, what are they going to be doing?
Any details with this statement?
3
Gee, I wonder if Mr Putin is trying to have other world leaders beg him to stay?
2
There's a lot to be said for dis-involving oneself with a quagmire. This must be extraordinary new for the Syrian people who have been living under bombardment for years now. Unfortunate that there's a long way to go, but this is a step in the right direction.
105
Obama needs to quickly follow suit and withdraw his financial and military support of the rebels. If Russia was wrong to intervene, then so is the US, and we've been exacerbating that civil war for 4 years longer than Putin.
96
I didn't read where Putin is withdrawing military and financial support of Assad -- which he's been providing just as long as we have -- just that he's withdrawing his own troops. On the contrary, I think this move betrays the weakness of Assad/Putin's positions, and, if anything, will encourage both the rebels and their Gulf State allies. No one wants to deal w/ Assad and he won't leave on his own. I'm guessing the peace talks will collapse soon.
3
How was Russia wrong to intervene? They were invited in to Syria by their close ally, the recognized government of Syria! It's the US that is on dubious footing, bombing Syria.
Now is the time for us to press our economic and military advantage to get Asasd to the peace table. He's killed quite enough of his own citizens on top of the ones Russia killed and still hasn't stopped his civil war.
His goal were achieved but they had nothing to do with Syria. He upstaged Obama who seems to make mistake after mistake in the Middle East.
13
And if Putin stayed in Syria, you would have blamed Obama? I guess that means he is at fault no matter what.
108
Better to make mistakes of omission. No one doubts the might of the US military. Especially when it is not over-used. This is amazing good news.
195
I suspect he's leaving because of an agreement behind the scenes with the US. There will be some price to pay (perhaps eastern Ukraine?).
16