I read Kimmelman's piece and the comments on the new Hub. I personally think it is a lovely and arresting architectural statement in an area of the city that really needs one. The comparison shouldn't be with the Grand Central, but with Penn Station, which is a travesty and a boondoggle at any price. Penn Station makes a Greyhound terminal grand by comparison, and is a truly depressing entry point to a great city. I only wish someone with imagination could reconfigure the underground rail lines so that this new Hub becomes the new Penn Station.
As seen from the front, to me it looks like the tail of an airplane that has crashed through the ground and sunken underneath. I'm surprised nobody else has seen this. At best, it could be the tail of a whale, again sticking out from the ground because the rest of the body is diving under. It's very upsetting given the context. Last thing I'd want to see at that site.
Pertaining to future/present paint jobs-maybe could/should look to nature, such
as a lion fishes markings ?
as a lion fishes markings ?
$15 to enter NYC from NJ using a Port Authority crossing. How long before we hear that tolls must be increased to cover the budget gap created by spending $4B on a train station? Our leaders are clueless!
An overpriced boondoggle and colossal waste of scarce resources. Obscene.
Breathing a great sigh of relief for the 'Pepsi-Cola' sign in Long Island City...
4
The new WTC Transit Hub the Oculus speaks to our future and our potential. Surrounded by dull architecture it reaffirms the act we can do so much better. Those criticizing the Oculus would have criticized Grand central Station where it was built as extravagant and unnecessary and they would have applauded the destruction of the original Penn Station. So much for those who want a dull uninspiring city and society in the name of frugality.
3
Grand Central is truly grand, an amazing place! What the PA created was a massively expensive lofted hunk of scrap metal over a huge space that will tend to stay that way most of the time, a reminder that the PA is best at wasting huge amounts of money that could better be spent elsewhere. Heaven help us when the PA builds the new Hudson tunnels, or wastes further billions on a new bus station. Hey - maybe they can do what they were created to - build a rail freight connection from NJ to Long Island to finally get huge numbers of trucks of highways, bridges and tunnels.
Oh - at least the PA boss is not celebrating this massive waste - maybe instead he could hold a memorial service for all the moneys lost!
Oh - at least the PA boss is not celebrating this massive waste - maybe instead he could hold a memorial service for all the moneys lost!
I have seen that subway documentary ONE TRACK MIND. Saw it at the Transit Museum last November. Quite good. The subject of the documentary (Philip Ashforth Coppola) is a real NY find -- like a Speed Levitch only much more toned down.
I guess that just seeing photos of this thing doesn't convey any of the emotion of seeing it in person, something I haven't done. As more or less failed engineering (some of that extra two billion), it does seem to be less inspiring than just a 'lookie-this' oddity. I'm thinking that it really would be more successful in some completely different setting.
I thought the Calatrava hub was ghastly when I first saw it, but y'know, it grows on you over time, especially since all the scaffolding came down. Now that I take the PATH home I look forward to being one of the first to walk through its corridors.
1
Public art and great architecture are signs of a vibrant culture and city. Who wants to like in "Soviet-era" style buildings that are efficient but drain the soul?However, this structure is not successful IMO. I didn't stand and marvel, feel inspired, or feel much of anything, so for me it is an artistic failure. I have only visited it as a tourist, but if it isn't even efficient for commuters, what a waste of money, and more importantly in the long run, a waste of opportunity for excellence and inspiration. Artistically, the Phoenix isn't rising from the ashes.
1
I always wonder where the elegance has gone in architecture. In the eye of the beholder, I know, but this thing looks like a junk pile.
1
$4 billion ? What would have been a reasonable expediture? $250 million?
This is so disgusting and it's why the cash toll is $15 on the bridges and tunnels and it will go higher.
This is so disgusting and it's why the cash toll is $15 on the bridges and tunnels and it will go higher.
2
I visited NY recently and was shocked at this hideous monstrosity and how NYC could possibly have allowed it to be built. It looks so out of place. It looks look a beetle, a bug, a roach. Architectural excess. I just don't get it.
3
The monumental opera is certainly amazing and important so it is the over budget of 2 billions (an enormity...)
When I see things like this I believe that the potential of the human being in terms of inventiveness and capability is huge.
From another point of view instead I also think that Mr. Calatrava must also have very good acquaintances after many complaints about several other installations which as if today are still controversial and causing serious trouble to daily commuters and users (see the glass bridge installed in Venice)
When I see things like this I believe that the potential of the human being in terms of inventiveness and capability is huge.
From another point of view instead I also think that Mr. Calatrava must also have very good acquaintances after many complaints about several other installations which as if today are still controversial and causing serious trouble to daily commuters and users (see the glass bridge installed in Venice)
1
There are so many who wanted a dedicated and expensive navel-gazing site. There is plenty of opportunity to lick phantom (and real) wounds; at least this is an infrastructural upgrade, and probably would have cost a whole lot less without the politicization and cronyism involved.
Islanders do not go Wild.
A more fitting comment would be "Islanders corral Wild", as the Wild are (is?) an undetermined species of beast.
It is dirty and rusty, already. In 10 years it will be an eye sore. This skeletal design only works as a model on Mr. Calatrava's desk where it will not be exposed to the harsh NYC elements.
1
First let me say that I think the new structure is very nice - it's modern and different and adds something a bit artsy to the more staid financial district.
But the third picture in this link: http://nyti.ms/20UCT6K of one of the outdoor views, reminds me of a drawing of the female reproductive system. I'm probably the only one seeing that. Or....maybe it's meant to symbolize rebirth?
But the third picture in this link: http://nyti.ms/20UCT6K of one of the outdoor views, reminds me of a drawing of the female reproductive system. I'm probably the only one seeing that. Or....maybe it's meant to symbolize rebirth?
1
The fusion of structural engineering with architectural design brilliance. Calatrava honors NYC and the site.
As for the $4B cost, it's my understanding that includes a lot of infrastructure that would have been required whatever the shell of the HUB looked like. The absence of a ribbon cutting ceremony is exquisitely petty.
As for the $4B cost, it's my understanding that includes a lot of infrastructure that would have been required whatever the shell of the HUB looked like. The absence of a ribbon cutting ceremony is exquisitely petty.
4
The Oculus Pavilion resembles a bleached, nearly inverted rib cage.
Although I can appreciate its radical design, its fruition further proves the death of the architectural styles that boldly characterized New York City, or perhaps just confirms the prevalence of an emerging one.
It also serves as evidence that such modern design is, at the very least, worth pondering and inducing of nostalgia for either the city's growing ephemera or the components of an existing built environment that cannot be replicated.
I've come to find that the architecture of new structures within our city either renders our existing and older architecture all the more precious, and in some very minor cases, escalates our city's landscape. One thing is for sure, however subjective and controversial these projects may appear, they definitely diversify New York's landscape, therefore aligning with the iconic vibrancy that New York has always held.
Although I can appreciate its radical design, its fruition further proves the death of the architectural styles that boldly characterized New York City, or perhaps just confirms the prevalence of an emerging one.
It also serves as evidence that such modern design is, at the very least, worth pondering and inducing of nostalgia for either the city's growing ephemera or the components of an existing built environment that cannot be replicated.
I've come to find that the architecture of new structures within our city either renders our existing and older architecture all the more precious, and in some very minor cases, escalates our city's landscape. One thing is for sure, however subjective and controversial these projects may appear, they definitely diversify New York's landscape, therefore aligning with the iconic vibrancy that New York has always held.
The new transit hub resembles a pair of discarded Venetian blinds hanging out if a garbage can.
On a related note, how can the city's newest, most expensive and most visible terminal house the subway station (World Trade Center) that even in the coldest months smells like a never-flushed urinal? I know people who will not use the station as soon as Spring arrives. Given all the money and attention this station receives, is it really impossible to prevent people from using it as a toilet, or, barring that, at least cleaning/deodorizing it?
On a related note, how can the city's newest, most expensive and most visible terminal house the subway station (World Trade Center) that even in the coldest months smells like a never-flushed urinal? I know people who will not use the station as soon as Spring arrives. Given all the money and attention this station receives, is it really impossible to prevent people from using it as a toilet, or, barring that, at least cleaning/deodorizing it?
7
I see fares going up to pay for it.
3
The stegosaurus looks like angels wings to me, lifting those we lost.
And yes, I was there that day.
And yes, I was there that day.
6
Finally! First of all, I'll say that it is a beautiful building. I've been walking it by it every day and watching the construction, as I leave the "temporary" PATH station on my way to the office. While I find the price tag deplorable as do many, what I really found to be unacceptable is that this project took nearly 15 years. For most people that is 1/3 of their working career, if not an even higher percentage.
Surely our leaders from Michael Bloomberg, George Pataki and every other NYS Governor could have been more efficient in reacting, planning, and implementation. It's pretty pathetic that this lengthy development is an exhibit of New York's leadership, ingenuity and productivity. Mr. Calatrava gave us a unique building. Our civic leaders failed us in their management.
Surely our leaders from Michael Bloomberg, George Pataki and every other NYS Governor could have been more efficient in reacting, planning, and implementation. It's pretty pathetic that this lengthy development is an exhibit of New York's leadership, ingenuity and productivity. Mr. Calatrava gave us a unique building. Our civic leaders failed us in their management.
12
This is a good example why the people don't trust government. Trains don't run on time or not at all but the MTA wastes $4 billion on a subway station.
12
It wasn't the MTA. It was the Port Authority.
5
Uhhh, the Port Authority was in charge. Blame the right government agency!
5
you forgot the fact that the exiting/entering the platforms during rush hour is a nightmare since there aren't many staircases and escalators.
1
Wow.
This site today is so chock-full of fabulous things (re:the under-lined blue references) it could take me all morning to luxuriously get through them.
Fabulous things presented by a fabulous presenter:Hats off to Alexandra S. Levine
This site today is so chock-full of fabulous things (re:the under-lined blue references) it could take me all morning to luxuriously get through them.
Fabulous things presented by a fabulous presenter:Hats off to Alexandra S. Levine
8
I think of the 4billion price tag and how some of that money might have helped the victims families.
4
Didn't they already get millions from tax payers in exchange for not suing the airlines?
3
RM--
That is a nice thought, but we would never build anything if helping victims or the poor was the sole consideration. There is a quality of life consideration for everyone else that has to also be considered.
That is a nice thought, but we would never build anything if helping victims or the poor was the sole consideration. There is a quality of life consideration for everyone else that has to also be considered.
3
My guess is that Patrick J. Foye is just too embarrassed by this entrance being a boondoggle to attend the opening ceremony. However, I'm not surprised on how many components of the official plan have exceeded their original costs. All I can say for this is just one thing, "Don't look at me, I wanted the Twin Towers rebuilt." If they had done that, they would have saved tons of money. Then again, they can always make the commuters cover the costs just by raising both the fares and tolls on all the forms of transportation and crossings that they own.
4
"Don't look at me, I wanted the Twin Towers rebuilt."
And I had hoped for a stabilizing of one or two of the larger standing fragments that remained of the Twin Towers, on grassy acres and surrounded by our city -- so that we would have an American Coventry Cathedral, left as a reminder of what we have lost.
But that would have cost a lot less, and no politician or architect could really take credit for it.
And I had hoped for a stabilizing of one or two of the larger standing fragments that remained of the Twin Towers, on grassy acres and surrounded by our city -- so that we would have an American Coventry Cathedral, left as a reminder of what we have lost.
But that would have cost a lot less, and no politician or architect could really take credit for it.
8
Think of how much easier it will make the commuting experience of many New Yorkers if they've only spent half or one -third of that final (?) price tag, and apply the money saved towards improving the subway system itself or adding more cars to it. I guess the egos of politicians and architects trumps the well-being of everyday New Yorkers. And BTW, I call that thing Big Spiney!
1
Well said!
I find it stunning, and despite the cost overruns, I am happy we have something so unusual and soaring in the city. Too often, NYC's default mode is homogenous and bland. For a major city, we have very few modern era public spaces that are anything but bland, neutral boxes. Finally, we took a risk.
9
Although I've been eagerly waiting for the opening of the oculus so that I could finally see this much discussed design, the question I have about this transit hub is: does it have public restrooms? So many tourist and transit high traffic locations in NYC don't . And that's stupid, and inhuman.
Compare our city to Tokyo, or Paris in this regard. The Tokyo (and Kyoto) subway provides a public restroom for every line in every station, and of course touristy spots like temples , famous bridges , parks and so on, always have a "public convenience" nearby. Developers should be required to upgrade our city's infrastructure, enlarging subway entrances , installing elevators and ramps--and maintaining restrooms--as part of any new land use deal.
Compare our city to Tokyo, or Paris in this regard. The Tokyo (and Kyoto) subway provides a public restroom for every line in every station, and of course touristy spots like temples , famous bridges , parks and so on, always have a "public convenience" nearby. Developers should be required to upgrade our city's infrastructure, enlarging subway entrances , installing elevators and ramps--and maintaining restrooms--as part of any new land use deal.
17
Nancy--
I once asked a brother and brother-in-law (who are policemen) about the lack of facilities, and they explained that when they are provided, crime rises. Too many use it for drug use and drug sales, and the amount of muggings and sexual predator activity rises. You would require a policeman and attendant onsite 24/7 simply to watch and clean the rest rooms.
Unfortunately we are not Paris or Tokyo as far as bad behavior is involved.
I once asked a brother and brother-in-law (who are policemen) about the lack of facilities, and they explained that when they are provided, crime rises. Too many use it for drug use and drug sales, and the amount of muggings and sexual predator activity rises. You would require a policeman and attendant onsite 24/7 simply to watch and clean the rest rooms.
Unfortunately we are not Paris or Tokyo as far as bad behavior is involved.
2
I find the design of the station scary, particularly because it's in a spot where something so terrible happened. The design reminds me of Freddie Kruger. I love adventurous modern architecture, but this is a blot on the landscape--even more so when you think about how the extravagance of the design must have run the price up by a couple of billion. It also reminds me of the cronyism of the Bloomberg years. I'm hoping I feel very differently once I'm inside....
6
“An ice castle from ‘Frozen.’ — Me “
Elsa chimed in with her point of view on the doubled budget. The past is in the past, after all.
Tune of “Let it Go”
The passers-by, they stopped to sigh
At the billions that were spent
A source of some aggravation
There may be some cause to vent
If it defies description they take that in stride
And hope it will be a great source of pride
The budget climbed, which isn’t nice
They had two billion and somehow spent it twice
It’s isn’t theirs and so they throw -
Around the dough
Let it flow, let it flow
It’s really not much to spend
Let it flow, let it flow
And the thing is sure to trend
‘Cause there it stands
Will the effort pay?
Let debate rage on -
Four billion’s not all that much anyway!
Elsa chimed in with her point of view on the doubled budget. The past is in the past, after all.
Tune of “Let it Go”
The passers-by, they stopped to sigh
At the billions that were spent
A source of some aggravation
There may be some cause to vent
If it defies description they take that in stride
And hope it will be a great source of pride
The budget climbed, which isn’t nice
They had two billion and somehow spent it twice
It’s isn’t theirs and so they throw -
Around the dough
Let it flow, let it flow
It’s really not much to spend
Let it flow, let it flow
And the thing is sure to trend
‘Cause there it stands
Will the effort pay?
Let debate rage on -
Four billion’s not all that much anyway!
19
HI, Freddie.
What do you do for a living?
What do you do for a living?