Mr. Wayne LaPierre: Stop abdicating your responsibility to be a leader in finding a solution.
Two people were killed by falling tree limbs in my town two weeks ago. 800 killed by objects falling from the sky in the last year nation wide per Boston Globe article. Average 4 people per year killed by Islamist terrorists in recent years. And how many killed by gun violence and suicide by gun? Tens of thousands. And terrorists are our biggest problem? Maybe quiet guys with glasses should be banned by Trump instead of Muslims.
5
393 comments in over 24 hours. Where is the outcry?
This illustrates my previous point that people, even if mightily distressed about the number of gun deaths in the U.S., are feeling hopeless to do anything about it. Congress is not responsive to voter demands for greater gun control. The NRA, gun manufacturers and sellers prevail through professional lobbying and campaign donations.
Voters must send their message at the polls and elect new Congresspeople who truly represent the people's view, not that of wealthy campaign donors and lobbyists.
This illustrates my previous point that people, even if mightily distressed about the number of gun deaths in the U.S., are feeling hopeless to do anything about it. Congress is not responsive to voter demands for greater gun control. The NRA, gun manufacturers and sellers prevail through professional lobbying and campaign donations.
Voters must send their message at the polls and elect new Congresspeople who truly represent the people's view, not that of wealthy campaign donors and lobbyists.
4
Before another word is written, I send my deep condolences to all the victims and their families in Kalamazoo, and of every shooting, everywhere. I can't imagine the anguish of this moment, and I hope that some peace and healing will find you.
A wise soul once observed, "Most people don't do something because they believe, they believe because they do it.". I like to keep that kind of compassion close to me while reading endless monologues from countless gun owners and gun lovers after every sad event in the ever-deteriorating history of gun violence in my home country; it helps to dull the ironic wail of some Americans who like to frame themselves as collateral victims. The need for anyone to stand with a pistol in one hand and the Constitution as a shield in the other is long past; I don't pretend to understand that kind of thinking.
If someone told me that there was even a chance that lives might be saved by restricting or giving up basketball---my "sport" of choice---I sincerely hope that I wouldn't raise my voice against the indignity of it all, try to rationalize my right to play, dismiss the possibility of a greater good simply so that I could keep doing what I wanted.
The root problem, it seems, is not that guns own the streets, but that they own far too many minds. Maybe time for all Americans to leave behind the pitiful anachronism of the Second Amendment, maybe time to stop asking what your country can do for you.
A wise soul once observed, "Most people don't do something because they believe, they believe because they do it.". I like to keep that kind of compassion close to me while reading endless monologues from countless gun owners and gun lovers after every sad event in the ever-deteriorating history of gun violence in my home country; it helps to dull the ironic wail of some Americans who like to frame themselves as collateral victims. The need for anyone to stand with a pistol in one hand and the Constitution as a shield in the other is long past; I don't pretend to understand that kind of thinking.
If someone told me that there was even a chance that lives might be saved by restricting or giving up basketball---my "sport" of choice---I sincerely hope that I wouldn't raise my voice against the indignity of it all, try to rationalize my right to play, dismiss the possibility of a greater good simply so that I could keep doing what I wanted.
The root problem, it seems, is not that guns own the streets, but that they own far too many minds. Maybe time for all Americans to leave behind the pitiful anachronism of the Second Amendment, maybe time to stop asking what your country can do for you.
10
Well, according to the NRA, the only way we can become safer is for everyone to be armed. Yeah, right.
3
Actually, that's not the NRA's stance. Not even close. You need better sources of information.
1
99% of the comments are about gun control. A basically unknown individual shoots unknown people with a gun he acquired in an unknown manner. Because of all the unknowns here, the only way to make sure no gun was available is to eliminate all guns, So apparently 99% want to do that. That puts the commenters way out of the mainstream, on the lunatic fringe. Myself, I'm a little afraid of what these folks will do if they don't get their way. Such extremists are known for senseless and random violence.
Yes, most comments lament gun violence. No, few if any ask for the elimination "of all guns". Wonder why you'd assert that? Hmmm. To get folks riled up? Just a guess.
7
An individual who has been described by his neighbors as increasingly erratic and paranoid, sometimes fires his gun from his backdoor or in his yard. Do you not think this is a cause for concern? Whether he acquired this gun legally or illegally is not important here. I would like local law enforcement officers to take that gun away from him because I hope it is illegal to shoot a gun in your backyard 20ft from your neighbors house.
6
Your stirring the pot in this way, twisting what has been said, and calling people names, suggest that you may be the extremist here. And if you are affiliated with the NRA, well, we know where senseless and random violence goes to be justified.
1
Don't even bother with the outrage anymore.....This is just America
4
One wit opined here, "Buy Smith & Wesson stock." Smart! Here's why: With every gun-violence incident, control freaks beat the drums for stricter laws to control folks benign behavior. (There is nothing evil in purchasing a gun.) When imposing control by means of laws there can be no distinction in enforcement between good folks and bad. Gun-control laws catch both in the same net. So when calls for strict controls following an incident like Kalamazoo reach a crescendo, Americans in great numbers rush to the nearest dealer to purchase guns and stock up on ammo before they can be prevented by new gun-control laws. As a result, and because this has been going on since Obama was elected on a gun-control platform, the number of guns in the hands of Americans has sky rocketed, and stocks like Smith & Wesson boom.
If the plethora of guns in America translates into more mass shootings, it is fair to say that those persistent calls for control legislation has contributed to the problem. It is said that repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting different results is a definition of insanity. Furthermore, chances of passing control legislation diminishes as the number of gun owners increases, so in that way too calls for control are counterproductive to reducing gun violence. It is time for a new approach.
While it too complex to describe here, I believe the problem of gun violence can be ameliorated by recognizing and ending our own personal embrace of violence.
If the plethora of guns in America translates into more mass shootings, it is fair to say that those persistent calls for control legislation has contributed to the problem. It is said that repeating the same mistake over and over and expecting different results is a definition of insanity. Furthermore, chances of passing control legislation diminishes as the number of gun owners increases, so in that way too calls for control are counterproductive to reducing gun violence. It is time for a new approach.
While it too complex to describe here, I believe the problem of gun violence can be ameliorated by recognizing and ending our own personal embrace of violence.
Well, we could end the sales of ammunition. You can't do much with your gun if you can't get ammunition for it.
3
Stunning thinking - as in the kind of logic that feels like a blow to the head.
Just out of curiosity, when this guy fired his gun out his backdoor, obviously not once, but on several different occasions, did anyone call the police? If not, why not? If my next door neighbor decided to shoot his gun in the air, I'd be calling the police about that.
8
Totally valid point, but I want to point out how rampant the culture of hunting is in Michigan, as I can see you're in California. I'm not sure how seriously this point could be taken by police particularly during hunting season. I don't know where the shooter lived, but my backyard in Kalamazoo is public hunting grounds.
I am starting to get "crazy shooter" fatigue, and this is not a good sign. There are so many gun deaths annually in the U.S., news of another does not raise an eyebrow anymore.
This is the very picture of disenfranchisement from the U.S. government. The majority of voters favor stricter gun control laws, yet Congress fails to act. Anyone can buy a range of weapons, and Congress fails to act.
Is it any wonder people can read about Kalamazoo and just shrug, think, "I can't do anything about it." and move on?
An unresponsive Congress, bought by a wealthy NRA and other arms manufacturers and sellers, is directly responsible for these deaths. These Congresspeople must be voted out of office, and replaced by representatives who listen to their constituents.
This is the very picture of disenfranchisement from the U.S. government. The majority of voters favor stricter gun control laws, yet Congress fails to act. Anyone can buy a range of weapons, and Congress fails to act.
Is it any wonder people can read about Kalamazoo and just shrug, think, "I can't do anything about it." and move on?
An unresponsive Congress, bought by a wealthy NRA and other arms manufacturers and sellers, is directly responsible for these deaths. These Congresspeople must be voted out of office, and replaced by representatives who listen to their constituents.
9
Uber driver with a gun. "During a ride arranged through the Uber platform, Uber and its affiliates therefore prohibit possessing firearms of any kind in a vehicle. Any rider or driver found to have violated this prohibition may lose access to the Uber platform."
Not only is this nearly impossible to track and enforce, but it "may" result in punishment? Does Uber have to comply with open carry and CHL laws by state? How is this communicated to drivers and passengers? Can passengers immediately report this? Are they aware that drivers are not allowed to carry firearms? A tragedy and a travesty, indeed.
Not only is this nearly impossible to track and enforce, but it "may" result in punishment? Does Uber have to comply with open carry and CHL laws by state? How is this communicated to drivers and passengers? Can passengers immediately report this? Are they aware that drivers are not allowed to carry firearms? A tragedy and a travesty, indeed.
5
So is it being reported as an alleged 'domestic terrorist'? Are media outlets using the 't' word if it is apparently a white male?
4
With a gun, it's so easy to kill people.
7
He fits the profile of Donald Trump voting and gun loving "real Americans" perfectly. I shudder to think what forms of terror they will inflict when they "take back the country".
9
The neighbor said "He loves guns". Enough said on that account. The media failed to go into detail about this horror, until late in their broadcasts, priortizing election reports instead.Not enough said on that account. Failing to press the canidates on this issue and gun control in general? Speechless.
3
Factually, this kind of incident is very rare. Of over three hundred million in this country, the chance of any one going berserk is less than being struck by lightning. Yet every time this happens, we see comment after comment blaming the NRA and demanding that we prohibit guns altogether or close to it.
Shooters in the recent incidents had no criminal record or domestic abuse and were not under psychiatric care. They passed all existing and proposed background checks. And that is the reason so many scream for outright prohibition.
Repeal the Second Amendment and legislate a total ban with mandatory buy-backs. That will leave existing criminals and millions of new ones with guns. The smuggling routes that arm cartels and street gangs will still be there, selling more black-market guns at higher profits.
Demonize guns all you want, with or without reason, and it's not going to solve the problem. Until humans evolve into something better, the only way we can reduce gun violence is to address the violence inherent in society. Propaganda peddlers like Brady or Bloomberg aren't helping, nor will "common sense" laws do much . There are programs that have shown results in decreasing violence among the most vulnerable groups, but those don't seem to have enough fund-raising possibilities for the professional hysterics.
So we continue to fund pro and anti-gun pressure groups and live with the violence. Will we ever learn to deal with causes instead of tools?
Shooters in the recent incidents had no criminal record or domestic abuse and were not under psychiatric care. They passed all existing and proposed background checks. And that is the reason so many scream for outright prohibition.
Repeal the Second Amendment and legislate a total ban with mandatory buy-backs. That will leave existing criminals and millions of new ones with guns. The smuggling routes that arm cartels and street gangs will still be there, selling more black-market guns at higher profits.
Demonize guns all you want, with or without reason, and it's not going to solve the problem. Until humans evolve into something better, the only way we can reduce gun violence is to address the violence inherent in society. Propaganda peddlers like Brady or Bloomberg aren't helping, nor will "common sense" laws do much . There are programs that have shown results in decreasing violence among the most vulnerable groups, but those don't seem to have enough fund-raising possibilities for the professional hysterics.
So we continue to fund pro and anti-gun pressure groups and live with the violence. Will we ever learn to deal with causes instead of tools?
Factually, 19 Americans were killed by ISIS both at home and abroad. Those killed at home were by legally purchased guns. Factually, over 30,000 Americans were killed by legally and illegally purchased guns in the U.S. in 2015. Mr. Trump et. al. states that more good guys with guns will eliminate these killings. In Aura Co. a maniac with an assualt gun in a darkened theather killed several people. Now imagine other gun-holding guy guys - with no police training - shooting at whom they "think" is the bad guy in the dark, who turns out to be a fellow good guy, who fires back leading to a cross-fire resulting in expodentially more death and injury. Now imagine the police arriving at the scene trying to figure out who the good guys are..... Well, you get the picture. We had 22 babies killed by an assault rifle in Conn. - one child with over 18 bulletts in her body. NRA states the teachers should now carry such weapons in the front of the classroom. NYC death by gun down over 60 % in last 10 years due to in large-measure, gun control. We need reasonable, National gun control now.
4
Define "reasonable". Define "control". Show how either definition would result in a decrease in violence. Explain why you don't advocate for programs that have been shown to reduce violence in at-risk populations. Explain why gun deaths have declined while gun sales have increased over the past several years.
Easier to just blame it all on guns, ain't it?
Easier to just blame it all on guns, ain't it?
1
Reasonable Control: background checks, restrict sales to those who have criminal records, mental illness, etc. - as it stands now, the NRA is even against refusing to allow a person on the "No Fly Terrorist Watch List" to buy/own guns. So it's ok to keep them off planes but allow them to buy assault weapons, like those utilized by ISIS inspired domestic terrorists? Really?
2
Motives? What about the motives for the other 6870 gun violence incidents in less than 2 months during 2016.
In this short period 74 children between the age of 0 to 11 and 385 teens between the age of 12 and 17 were killed or injured by guns.
What difference what the motives were. The common denominator is our failure to regulate the sale of guns, and the fetishization of these weapons brought about by daily fear-mongers.
There are victims of our obsession with guns every single day. See for yourself. Go to the Gun Violence Archive-- a non-profit online site that attempts to present accurate statistics on gun violence in the US. See how many shootings there are daily--and its everywhere. No town in America is exempt.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org
In this short period 74 children between the age of 0 to 11 and 385 teens between the age of 12 and 17 were killed or injured by guns.
What difference what the motives were. The common denominator is our failure to regulate the sale of guns, and the fetishization of these weapons brought about by daily fear-mongers.
There are victims of our obsession with guns every single day. See for yourself. Go to the Gun Violence Archive-- a non-profit online site that attempts to present accurate statistics on gun violence in the US. See how many shootings there are daily--and its everywhere. No town in America is exempt.
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org
4
This murderer had no prior convictions, and could easily obtain weapons.
So much for the NRA's slogan that 'good guys with a gun" can protect us from 'bad guys with a gun".
And, by the way, why not call this latest shooting spree domestic terrorism? Oh, he was white and probably belonged to the majority religion in the land of the free for all guns.
So much for the NRA's slogan that 'good guys with a gun" can protect us from 'bad guys with a gun".
And, by the way, why not call this latest shooting spree domestic terrorism? Oh, he was white and probably belonged to the majority religion in the land of the free for all guns.
7
Once again please explain why we are so afraid of those evil Muslim terrorists coming here and attacking us in our nice safe homeland.
3
Very impressed that you wrote the article without saying the dreaded words "mental illness."
Why does the NYT treat mental illness the way Reagan treated AIDS?
(I understand it's more fun to spin the tragedy into a series on Uber's liability, maybe a few contractor/employee stories, perhaps encourage a lawsuit. Please take the high road.)
Why does the NYT treat mental illness the way Reagan treated AIDS?
(I understand it's more fun to spin the tragedy into a series on Uber's liability, maybe a few contractor/employee stories, perhaps encourage a lawsuit. Please take the high road.)
1
They didn't report "mental illness" because no medical professional has said anything about mental illness. Since they have him alive, maybe someone will actually examine him and be able to diagnose "mental illness." Or maybe he's just a terrorist. A white, male, American terrorist mass murderer.
2
the man was driving erratically with his customers in the car before he started shooting. I wonder to what extent alcohol was involved. I'll bet his family life wasn't as idyllic as it seemed to others.
1
Imagine America without the First Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, etc.?
Yes. Of course you can.
Imagine America without the Fourth Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting to prohibit unlawful searches & seizures?
Yes. Of course you can.
Imagine America without the Seventh Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting trials by a jury of your peers?
Yes. Of course you can.
This logic should hold true for every single Constitutional Amendment -- if we didn't already have it today, we would *certainly* want it.
Now Imagine America without the Second Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting to give every person a gun?
Of course not.
The Second Amendment seriously needs to be revisited.
Yes. Of course you can.
Imagine America without the Fourth Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting to prohibit unlawful searches & seizures?
Yes. Of course you can.
Imagine America without the Seventh Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting trials by a jury of your peers?
Yes. Of course you can.
This logic should hold true for every single Constitutional Amendment -- if we didn't already have it today, we would *certainly* want it.
Now Imagine America without the Second Amendment. Can anyone imagine wanting to give every person a gun?
Of course not.
The Second Amendment seriously needs to be revisited.
5
What I don't understand is how an "amendment" can't be amended.
From the NYT story - “He periodically shot his gun out the back door,” Ms. Pardo said. “He would shoot randomly into the air.”
Shouldn’t this be grounds for removal of someone’s privilege to own guns? I wonder if anyone reported him to the authorities for such recklessness. The irresponsible deference we give to guns and gun proponents will continue to bite us, metaphorically, and bleed us, literally, until we put the brakes on unregulated, unaccountable dissemination of lethal weapons across this country. Reporting on every case like this should include explicit reference to whether the weapons involved were legally owned, and where/how they were acquired. To disregard this is to bypass the key factor in virtually every shooting story.
Shouldn’t this be grounds for removal of someone’s privilege to own guns? I wonder if anyone reported him to the authorities for such recklessness. The irresponsible deference we give to guns and gun proponents will continue to bite us, metaphorically, and bleed us, literally, until we put the brakes on unregulated, unaccountable dissemination of lethal weapons across this country. Reporting on every case like this should include explicit reference to whether the weapons involved were legally owned, and where/how they were acquired. To disregard this is to bypass the key factor in virtually every shooting story.
1
A case like this is a mystery for the police because it lacks a traditional criminal motive. Mr. Dalton made little effort to avoid arrest, so it may well be that he sought to end his life as he knew it. That is a matter that a psychiatrist, not a detective, is better suited to understand. With some 40,000 suicides per year and only a handful that are preceded by such shootings, however, psychiatrists are hard-pressed to detect those who will lash out like Mr. Dalton. They're one in a million,
Gun control advocates think they have the answer. They'll stop the one in a million case by making it hard to get guns legally. I think their efforts are long shots, just like the police and psychiatrists. Anyone who is one in a million isn't likely to be deterred by gun control. An illegal gun, an explosive, a suicide vest, and countless other weapons are out there for someone psychologically compelled to do harm. Gun control people seem to think that mass killers are law abiders. That, of course, is not true.
Mass killings are far more common today than 50 years ago. It used to be that family and friends constantly looked out for each other. Today, many are more isolated, and therein lies the problem. It may be a problem without a solution. We can't go back 50 years. But nobody has the answer yet, and nobody is even close.
Gun control advocates think they have the answer. They'll stop the one in a million case by making it hard to get guns legally. I think their efforts are long shots, just like the police and psychiatrists. Anyone who is one in a million isn't likely to be deterred by gun control. An illegal gun, an explosive, a suicide vest, and countless other weapons are out there for someone psychologically compelled to do harm. Gun control people seem to think that mass killers are law abiders. That, of course, is not true.
Mass killings are far more common today than 50 years ago. It used to be that family and friends constantly looked out for each other. Today, many are more isolated, and therein lies the problem. It may be a problem without a solution. We can't go back 50 years. But nobody has the answer yet, and nobody is even close.
1
Why is randomly shooting a gun out your back door from time to time not some kind of criminal offense? I can understand someone not wanting to report it and then be implicated in the investigation of this person-- because one would still be left across the street from him and he would have a gun. But is there no way for a neighbor or other observant person to tell the police that an armed civilian is acting paranoid?
5
He had no arrest record, so he wasn't a bad guy with a gun. He was just another "good guy" who should not have been carrying a gun, since when he slipped over the line to bad thoughts, he had the ultimate temptation right at hand.
3
Why do media outlets, including the NYT, continue to provide the name, background information, and even photographs of mass killers? There is much that remains unknown about the motives of such horrific acts of violence, but one of the few things research has taught us about such murderers is that that are often driven, at least in part, by the desire to be infamous. Forensic psychiatrists and other mental health researchers have noted this many times, and asked that media outlets voluntarily (but with explanation to their readers/listeners/viewers), refrain from providing the much desired publicity about these monstrous perpetrators. To no avail. Shame on the NYT and other media outlets for ignoring these pleas, and not providing a unified media-front that refuses to provide these murderers any of their desired, macabre celebrity. The media can fulfill its civic duty by thoroughly covering these terrible incidents, without making celebrities out of the perpetrators.
This kind of violence will not change until this country seriously starts to direct its attention towards trying to understand the parallels of mental illness and gun violence. The next surprising news we hear about them, sadly, is when they begin to happen on a weekly basis.
The horrifying thing about the randomized chain of events in Kalamazoo highlights that the victims shared only one common thing together - they became the targets of mental illness and gun violence right as they struck.
The horrifying thing about the randomized chain of events in Kalamazoo highlights that the victims shared only one common thing together - they became the targets of mental illness and gun violence right as they struck.
2
Read this story first on my telephone. Right there in the middle of the story, an advertisement for Uber! Really poor placement of course, but also, to me, a sign of how "normalized" these stories have become.
Just another crazy guy with a gun. No special treatment of the story. And to think that his neighbors describe as normal and quiet....except that the caveat about shooting the gun from his back door!
Perhaps saddest part of this story, except for victims, is how typical it sounds.
bikiniwaxchronicles.com
Just another crazy guy with a gun. No special treatment of the story. And to think that his neighbors describe as normal and quiet....except that the caveat about shooting the gun from his back door!
Perhaps saddest part of this story, except for victims, is how typical it sounds.
bikiniwaxchronicles.com
2
I don't care what his motives were. Thanks to the NRA and our craven politicians, he had a gun. That's all we need to know.
14
it is foolish to find a motive, which is already there. Killing to vent out frustration--which was proven time over time.
7
Terrorizing and murdering human beings while being an armed white male was the motive behind this rampage.
7
I'm sure the only "motive" is easy access to guns, and anger. And there are a lot of angry people, and a lot of guns. The combination does not bode well for the future.
5
"How do you go and tell the families of these victims that they weren’t targeted for any reason than they were there to be a target?”
Well, you could begin by explaining that in states like Michigan, it is legal and easy to buy guns, and that both concealed carry and open carry are legal. Then, that any legal gun owner can wake up one day and spontaneously decide to go on a shooting spree, simply loading up his guns and targeting arbitrary people for no apparent reason.
You could go on to explain that if gun ownership was rendered totally impractical through voter-demanded, highly restrictive modern legislation that does not negate the second amendment, such spontatneous acts would not be possible. And you would not have to explain random targeting by shooters any more.
Otherwise, take this opportunity to refine your message delivery for the future.
Well, you could begin by explaining that in states like Michigan, it is legal and easy to buy guns, and that both concealed carry and open carry are legal. Then, that any legal gun owner can wake up one day and spontaneously decide to go on a shooting spree, simply loading up his guns and targeting arbitrary people for no apparent reason.
You could go on to explain that if gun ownership was rendered totally impractical through voter-demanded, highly restrictive modern legislation that does not negate the second amendment, such spontatneous acts would not be possible. And you would not have to explain random targeting by shooters any more.
Otherwise, take this opportunity to refine your message delivery for the future.
8
a) Some people are insane or immoral
b) Not all insane or immoral people can be identified as such before they harm others
c) People with guns who are insane or immoral have a higher likelihood to harm others
Therefore
d) If you do not wish others to be harmed, and you cannot always identify if someone is insane or immoral, stop the free sale of guns
b) Not all insane or immoral people can be identified as such before they harm others
c) People with guns who are insane or immoral have a higher likelihood to harm others
Therefore
d) If you do not wish others to be harmed, and you cannot always identify if someone is insane or immoral, stop the free sale of guns
9
Middle aged white man; check. No criminal record; check. Deeply repressed homicidal rage; check. Spontaneous murder of human beings he didn't know; check. I seemed to have read news stories like this before.
16
I wonder how many of these supposedly sane perpetrators were insane under the influence of alcohol when they killed
1
What difference would more robust Uber background checks make for a case like this? Do you want to know what the most obvious predictor is of gun violence? Gun ownership. Now, can you imagine the backlash if Uber even asked drivers whether they owned a gun, much less made it a policy to prohibit the carrying of guns by drivers? No doubt some state legislature would outlaw all business background checks inquiring into gun ownership, the way Florida tried to prohibit pediatricians from asking parents about gun safety in the home.
12
Michigan's increasingly "pro-gun" laws did nothing to protect the victims. Does anyone else see the irony in Michigan's Legislature, Governor and Courts refusing to allow citizens to carry guns into Michigan's Capital building and Court buildings? After all, citizens' rights don't cease to exist inside Michigan's Capital building or Court buildings. And for those "pro-gun" advocates who believe armed citizens improve safety, then why not allow guns in Michigan's Capital building and Court buildings?
10
I have a strong desire to become a background checker for gun dealers. Or, more appropriately, for an agency that monitors such checks. I really would feel useful in the struggle, then.
4
Once again, his face appears in this article, and I am sure on the front page of many publications!!! Why must we glorify the gunmen? Why must we let those who are not wrapped tightly enough that they too can be a "celebrity" and be the lead on the newscasts, with their pictures, and interviews with their families and friends? Why? Why?
2
I agree. How about this?
Designate them, not by name, but by place and date. For instance, in this case he would be referred to as - "Kalamaoo February 21, 2016" or something similar. Doesn't give him any publicity. Doesn't embarrass any innocent family.
Designate them, not by name, but by place and date. For instance, in this case he would be referred to as - "Kalamaoo February 21, 2016" or something similar. Doesn't give him any publicity. Doesn't embarrass any innocent family.
1
First, my heart goes out to everyone in Kalamazoo, Michigan. How awful to have one's town riven with such random violence. I especially convey my sympathies to those who lost family members, friends and neighbors to this senseless rampage.
Perhaps it's time that all men be banned from owning guns. In America, males with guns are a hazard to everyone's safety.
Perhaps it's time that all men be banned from owning guns. In America, males with guns are a hazard to everyone's safety.
10
Motive? Who cares? Several innocent people were again murdered by a guy with a gun. Obviously, he's a guy who shouldn't have had access to guns. That's the issue, not his motive.
America: The land of too many guns in the hands of too many people.
By the way, I can't wait for the NRA and its supporters in Congress to opine the idiocy that the victims should have been armed. You can't protect yourself from random shootings, no matter how well "armed" you are. Explain that argument to the Secret Service officers armed with machine guns and other guns who were protecting Ronald Reagan and James Brady.
America: The land of too many guns in the hands of too many people.
By the way, I can't wait for the NRA and its supporters in Congress to opine the idiocy that the victims should have been armed. You can't protect yourself from random shootings, no matter how well "armed" you are. Explain that argument to the Secret Service officers armed with machine guns and other guns who were protecting Ronald Reagan and James Brady.
4
Just one more white, male, good guy with a gun. Until he's NOT! When are Americans going to stop voting in NRA funded government officials so we can finally pass some reasonable and sane gun laws?! There is no longer anywhere safe in the United States; not a church, not a national park, not a school, not a shopping mall, not even a grocery store. Wake up America!
3
Isn't it too soon to be talking about this? The NRA is always advising us to wait until we've all calmed down so that we can have a rational discussion about gun violence.
3
I am a board-certified psychiatrist. Motive? He is angry. Period. He should be held accountable for his acts, regardless of any psychiatric "diagnosis." (I anticipate the defense.)
Think for yourself. Question whether what any psychiatrist, including me, says in this matter is legally relevant.
Think for yourself. Question whether what any psychiatrist, including me, says in this matter is legally relevant.
7
Still according to the opinion polls Americans top concern is Islamic terrorism, as if we are not many times more likely to be shot dead by a 'quiet and polite' neighbor who just happen to have easy access to a gun.
6
Time to buy more stock in Smith & Wesson. Easiest way to get rich in America these days.
2
There is a seemingly seething rage in this country that fuels these things –joblessness, seeing uncontrolled immigration, the browning of America, seeing you live a worse off life materially than your parents, etc. The only thing that could've stopped this person from committing this heinous crime is access to a gun. Mass killings that are random are particularly heinous because the victims are random strangers that had nothing to do with the perpetrator's supposed suffering. I think some people just start to hate others for the sole reason that they look better off than they are.
Folks, this is why we need a more substantial safety net. Mass killings like these are rarer in countries that have safety nets.
Folks, this is why we need a more substantial safety net. Mass killings like these are rarer in countries that have safety nets.
2
You are, unfortunately, about the only person offering the most rational explanation, and more importantly, a rational solution on these posts. I think that the 'stick it to who used to be the middle class' approach of the past several years, combined with the 'let's bend the Constitution here and there' has definitely had an effect on a wide swath of American's thinking. The fact that even under this administration we HAVE NOT rethought mental health is telling!
I am just thankful that we all have access to a virtually unlimited arsenal of guns. Sure makes us the safest nation on earth. I am sure that if anyone ever counted that we would have far less gun deaths than other 1st world country.
There don't even seem to be any offerings of thoughts or hearts or prayers from any of the GOP candidates. It is remarkable that they are able to ignore it.
5
I feel sorry for the bad press Uber is going to get for this. I hope, however, they create an emergency feature that allows users to report dangerous driving and enables Uber to immediately suspend drivers' accounts, pending an investigation, so that more passengers don't unwittingly ride with the driver. I personally experienced a dangerous driver once (he was watching a portable TV while driving - you cant make this stuff up) and Uber was very responsive, but it took about 24 hours.
7
The United States lack of heart on the topic of gun violence is shameful. If a presidential candidate can boast about shooting someone and continue to win primaries then this is truly a country that I do not recognize. I can only hope that the future will provide us with more elected officials who deplore gun violence.
6
IT won't happen by hoping for it, we all have to get out and work for it. Moms Demand Action is a fine organization with an intelligent strategy and a need for more volunteers.
You make a good point. I will definitely look into Mom's Demand Action. We all need to be more vocal and demand action.
Oh well…I guess we can now add lonely middle aged white male misanthropes, working in the much ballyhooed but low paying “gig economy / we-economy” who paint their houses brown to our ever growing list of people who shouldn’t own guns.
The internet…plus 500 channels of TV…plus low, low prices…plus the NFL…a dozen Republican candidates for president and life still sucked.
What a tragic waste!
The internet…plus 500 channels of TV…plus low, low prices…plus the NFL…a dozen Republican candidates for president and life still sucked.
What a tragic waste!
1
The Pope when across the Rio Grande asked Trump about Christianity had a foreside of the insanity of the US. What Jason Dalton did later on is just a quick example.
Meet the American terrorist. He shoots his semi-automatic randomly in the air, he's paranoid, he buys a guard dog to keep out "people passing through his backyard" in a neighborhood that sees very little serious crime.
But he likes to work on cars, so people assume he's a "nice guy". He was raised under a radical ideology based in guns and libertarian-ism and aggressive self-defense.
One day he goes out and murders six people.
How is he different from any Muslim suicide bomber?
But he likes to work on cars, so people assume he's a "nice guy". He was raised under a radical ideology based in guns and libertarian-ism and aggressive self-defense.
One day he goes out and murders six people.
How is he different from any Muslim suicide bomber?
4
Yet another case of homegrown terrorism by a white guy with a semi-automatic weapon. Should be ban all white guys from coming to the U.S.?
6
I am not aware of any city or town in the US where randomly firing a gun out from your house is not against the law. The fact the Kalamazoo killer's neighbors were apparently aware of such behavior, but did not report it to the police, is remarkable.
In San Bernardino, where those killers were operating a bomb factory from their home, neighbors also failed to report to the police their observations of suspicious behavior.
According to the police, the Kalamazoo shooter employed an easily re-loadable semi-automatic handgun. Such weapons have been civilian legal since the end of the 19th Century. There were no background checks back then, and such weapons could be purchased by anyone at, say, a hardware store.
Yet the sort of insane, random killing spree we have become so tragically familiar with were all but unheard of in those days. Decades before the large, state mental hospitals were mostly closed. But, some may say, there is no proof the shooter was insane, or engaged in prior criminal behavior.
Really?
In San Bernardino, where those killers were operating a bomb factory from their home, neighbors also failed to report to the police their observations of suspicious behavior.
According to the police, the Kalamazoo shooter employed an easily re-loadable semi-automatic handgun. Such weapons have been civilian legal since the end of the 19th Century. There were no background checks back then, and such weapons could be purchased by anyone at, say, a hardware store.
Yet the sort of insane, random killing spree we have become so tragically familiar with were all but unheard of in those days. Decades before the large, state mental hospitals were mostly closed. But, some may say, there is no proof the shooter was insane, or engaged in prior criminal behavior.
Really?
6
Here in rural NC it is perfectly legal to shoot from your house into the woods, night and day, day and night, if there is sufficient distance to the next house. Happens every day, all weekend long.
1
If he didn't live within city limits, its perfectly legal. NYC doesn't get what rural means.
The key word is 'rural.' Generally, those in city limits are forbidden from shooting out of their home, and even here in Yuma, AZ, pellet and BB guns are not allowed to be shot in backyards, legally.
Motive? As if this isn't a daily occurrence, male head cases with easy access to guns blowing away their fellow citizens? As if whatever motive they have is relevant to the victim's loved ones and to the rest of us?
Our friends, families and co-workers are dying daily for the NRA/GOP/gun lobby misreading/misunderstanding/misleading interpretation of the 2nd amendment. No need to search for motives. Just vote appropriately as the President suggested after the last one of these abominations.
Our friends, families and co-workers are dying daily for the NRA/GOP/gun lobby misreading/misunderstanding/misleading interpretation of the 2nd amendment. No need to search for motives. Just vote appropriately as the President suggested after the last one of these abominations.
7
Just one more good guy with a gun, proving that guns don't make us safer.
2
The passenger who experienced the scary ride with Mr. Dalton reported him around 5:30 PM, and the latter started his spree shortly before 6:00 PM. He had expressed concern about bad reviews to a second customer the day before; and he apparently was using his cell phone (receiving a call?) just before the first attack. Wonder if one more complaint and bad review may have been the straw that broke the camel's back for a disturbed mind.
1
You may again thank the Republican Party, the Tea Party, the NRA, and the very weak, snarky, greedy politicians for the massacre. Job well done.
5
Why does the NYT continue to publish these ridiculously biased, idiotic comments but refuses to allow even a rebuttal?
Personally I think Mr. Edelmann should be taken out and beaten behind the shed.
Personally I think Mr. Edelmann should be taken out and beaten behind the shed.
Yet, there you are, with your rebuttal.
So many of the comments here are about how this is but another example of lives lost because of the lack of gun control in this country. As if its in our power to prevent this thing from happening if only we had a law. The problem is that this guy had no criminal record, and was even said to be a nice person by those who knew him. So this is the type of person that no gun control law would have stopped him from having a gun. Yelling about gun control after every shooting is at this point pretty much a reflex, or perhaps about restating ones position on the issue, since no form of gun control would have prevented this, and most other, shootings.
2
So what do you suggest we all do Michael?
Just shrug and say well at least it wasn't my loved one... this time!
Do you really think we should just accept this type of behavior?
Can we really not do better than this?
Just shrug and say well at least it wasn't my loved one... this time!
Do you really think we should just accept this type of behavior?
Can we really not do better than this?
3
You have a good point. What we need is a ban on semiautomatic weapons, which makes these kinds of killings much easier. We also need to charge MUCH more per bullet. And charge insurance for owning a gun. Why we don't is beyond me.
1
Perhaps no law would have stopped it but the incessant pursuit and celebration of guns is certainly a factor! Why do Americans have such a fascination for guns?
What was the motive? He did it because he could. When you have virtually an entire Congress, with the backing of powerful gun lobbies, spreading paranoia – fear our president, fear our military (those black helicopters), fear anyone of color – while at the same time encouraging anyone and everyone to get a gun, what other outcome would we expect? Meanwhile, one Republican presidential candidate after another has been photographed preening with a high-powered weapon in their hands. The deranged get the message. They have been empowered and they are exercising that power. There's your cause.
14
`President Obama has repeatedly called for the nation to take steps to curb gun violence and carry out stricter background checks.'
Nothing is being done. Nothing. Bloodshed has joined apple pie in the American profile.
Nothing is being done. Nothing. Bloodshed has joined apple pie in the American profile.
44
"Nice... polite..." shoots a gun out of his back door. It gets to the point where commenting about gun insanity in the US is not even worth it anymore, however, the innocent victims add up one by one and lots of money is made by the gun industry and their mouthpieces in the gun lobby.
39
Should have read "well-mannered and pleasant..."
1
Since lots of guns are supposed to make us safer, you'd think that this country would be the safest on the planet. I wonder what happened...?
37
When are our Republican legislatures going to wake up and finally do something to limit the carnage? The 2nd Amendment clearly states that arms are for "a well regulated militia". The founders clearly could not have foreseen the types of weapons now in use.
Enough is enough. It is time to support only those candidates who care about human life beyond that of a fetus.
Enough is enough. It is time to support only those candidates who care about human life beyond that of a fetus.
39
The term `well regulated` doesn't mean what you think or wish it means.
If he was black or Muslim, we wouldn't be hearing much about "mental illness" or how "normal" he was.
Instead, we'd be hearing about Islamic terrorism or thuggish behavior brought on by cultural decay... Along with the usual search of "leaders" to defend those demonized communities (obviously, only minorities get painted with a broad brush).
This racist tendency to humanize white killers is infuriating.
Instead, we'd be hearing about Islamic terrorism or thuggish behavior brought on by cultural decay... Along with the usual search of "leaders" to defend those demonized communities (obviously, only minorities get painted with a broad brush).
This racist tendency to humanize white killers is infuriating.
55
If he was black or muslim, he would be dead.
2
We live within earshot of the Cracker Barrel where Dalton shot four women and a teenaged girl, and we heard the sirens, but assumed it was a crash on the interstate, which goes right by there. When we learned what happened it stunned us both. We were out for dinner ourselves that night, and our sense of living in a safe, tolerant community is gone now. I know time heals, but I'm not so sure it will heal this.
This kind of event happens all the time now, and now it has happened right our my back door. That kind of random, unimaginable violence changes you and changes communities. The ritual of "after" has become all too familiar. It is as if we are just normalizing this--like, this is what we do after a mass shooting that makes no sense. And that, in itself, makes no sense.
This kind of event happens all the time now, and now it has happened right our my back door. That kind of random, unimaginable violence changes you and changes communities. The ritual of "after" has become all too familiar. It is as if we are just normalizing this--like, this is what we do after a mass shooting that makes no sense. And that, in itself, makes no sense.
79
this is so sad, so sorry.
2
Why live in fear? Now that lightening has struck, what are the chances of it happening again in the same place?
I don't think it's necessarily fair for Kalamazoo to think that we have to stigmatize our community in order to avoid feeling ignorant. It's not our fault. It's not our police department's fault. Going back to work this morning and feeling safe didn't mean I was normalizing the situation. We have a safe and thriving community, and a random mass shooting is not the community's burden to bear.
This happens too often to good communities like ours. It's a pattern, and breaking up that pattern with whatever solution, temporary or permanent, should be a top priority.
This happens too often to good communities like ours. It's a pattern, and breaking up that pattern with whatever solution, temporary or permanent, should be a top priority.
Several people have pointed out that someone should have reported this guy for firing his gun out the back door. That makes sense - but then what?
If he lived in the city, he would get a citation or a warning. If he lived outside the city, it might not be a crime to discharge a weapon on your own property.
Even if he were given a citation, how would that have stopped this crime? If the misdemeanor did show up on a background check, Uber probably wouldn't have hired him. But he could still snap and run around shooting people. The neighbors might have been hesitant to report him for a variety of reasons in the first place - and now we know a very good reason.
You can't stop someone from committing a terrible crime that you have no idea will occur - that is as long as people are already heavily armed.
I wish there were an easy, real-life solution to gun violence. But short of banning gun possession, how will this occur?
If he lived in the city, he would get a citation or a warning. If he lived outside the city, it might not be a crime to discharge a weapon on your own property.
Even if he were given a citation, how would that have stopped this crime? If the misdemeanor did show up on a background check, Uber probably wouldn't have hired him. But he could still snap and run around shooting people. The neighbors might have been hesitant to report him for a variety of reasons in the first place - and now we know a very good reason.
You can't stop someone from committing a terrible crime that you have no idea will occur - that is as long as people are already heavily armed.
I wish there were an easy, real-life solution to gun violence. But short of banning gun possession, how will this occur?
6
We can insist that every single bullet be registered and tracked -- just as we do for Sudafed. We can limit the amount of ammo an individual can purchase. We can require that every firearm be insured and let the underwriters sort out who can and cannot safely own a gun.
We could decide that shooting for fun has gone too far and is now a danger to our republic and rein in gun ownership. Short of that, there are these reasonable limits on gun ownership that might help.
We could decide that shooting for fun has gone too far and is now a danger to our republic and rein in gun ownership. Short of that, there are these reasonable limits on gun ownership that might help.
1
No "assault rifle" in sight. Without the anti-gun crowd's favorite whipping boy to blame, commenters are left with simply advocating a ban on all firearms. Which is precisely what the tens of millions of law-abiding gun owners have been suspecting the anti-gun crowd has been up to all along. It's never been about reducing crime, it's been about eliminating guns.
So stop pretending to be interested only in "sensible" gun control; let's take the gloves off and see who wins. If you favor eliminating all firearms from American society, that's fine; vote for representatives who share your view. See if you can muster the votes to repeal the Second Amendment; don't forget to re-write your state constitutions as well (most have an unequivocal right of the individual to bear arms in them- you might want to read yours, just for fun). Let the democratic process decide the issue.
This would be the most useful and constructive way of resolving what is obviously a contentious issue. Although clearly for many NYT readers, mocking and dehumanizing 60-70 million gun owners is way more fun, a pleasure most seem reluctant to give up. Just remember, the epithets you so freely throw around are actually directed at your neighbors: local firemen, policemen, artists, doctors, lawyers, teachers, carpenters, plumbers, farmers etc. who happen to own firearms.
So stop pretending to be interested only in "sensible" gun control; let's take the gloves off and see who wins. If you favor eliminating all firearms from American society, that's fine; vote for representatives who share your view. See if you can muster the votes to repeal the Second Amendment; don't forget to re-write your state constitutions as well (most have an unequivocal right of the individual to bear arms in them- you might want to read yours, just for fun). Let the democratic process decide the issue.
This would be the most useful and constructive way of resolving what is obviously a contentious issue. Although clearly for many NYT readers, mocking and dehumanizing 60-70 million gun owners is way more fun, a pleasure most seem reluctant to give up. Just remember, the epithets you so freely throw around are actually directed at your neighbors: local firemen, policemen, artists, doctors, lawyers, teachers, carpenters, plumbers, farmers etc. who happen to own firearms.
6
The question "what was his motive" is ridiculous. If you are angry, and you have trouble in your life, that gun at your side can easily end the argument you have with the world. The aggressive, competitive, life-cheapening tenor of our times makes people vulnerable to this angry feeling. This feeling is not going to be discovered as an ongoing mental illness. Combine this with "accidental" shootings, and just about everyone who carries a gun is a potential murderer. Yes, your neighbors.
2
Your defense of this mayhem is in poor taste, to say the least. If you have a gun fetish, it's probably best to keep that between you and your intimates, just as we expect of people with, say, feet fetishes. Of course, most fetishes are perfectly harmless, which is all the more reason for you to treat yours as a dark and private secret.
4
so the only solution is to let the 'pro-gun crowd' killings us without other motive that people make interesting shooting targets
I really wish the media, including the NY Times, would stop calling these murderous rampages "sprees." A spree is a care free lark. Words have meaning.
17
Instead of "searching for motive," spend those hours searching for common sense gun control in this country.
Why don't you search for motive in the case of the 3 year old who shot her mother in the head last week while you're at it.
I'm sure that will shed a lot of light. Focus on the NRA if you want to find the root of this problem.
Why don't you search for motive in the case of the 3 year old who shot her mother in the head last week while you're at it.
I'm sure that will shed a lot of light. Focus on the NRA if you want to find the root of this problem.
41
Sadly, I'm not even sure which "3 year old who shot her mother in the head" you're referring to. That seems to be a weekly occurrence anymore.
2
It's 8:30 AM here on the west coast and I count only 158 comments on this story that was published yesterday. I sense compassion fatigue has reared its ugly head. Or maybe it's just indifference. Random shootings in the USA have become the norm.
17
Francisco de Alencar
Illness and Violence
Victims and victims
Tragic
Who answers?
Francisco de Alencar Professor of Social Anthropology Brazil
Illness and Violence
Victims and victims
Tragic
Who answers?
Francisco de Alencar Professor of Social Anthropology Brazil
1
To the NRA. What went wrong? Where was the good guy with the gun?
54
I guess all the victims were supposed to have eyes in the backs of their heads - better that than make it harder for people like the shooter to get guns.
2
Obviously not in the Uber vehicle because Uber bans the carrying of weapons in their vehicles used by their sub-contractors. You'd think that part of Uber's vetting process would be to determine whether or not those applying to be Uber drivers have a valid CPL. If they have a CPL then don't allow them to drive for Uber. That way we could all be assured that if we wanted to be transported by Uber the driver would be a gun hating Liberal.
This was the good guy with the gun. There is just no way to know when a seemingly normal person suddenly becomes a homicidal maniac. Only solution is to limit the tools of the homicidal maniac and that means everybody's guns. Sorry NRA, it's for the greater good. If the NRA could guarantee it won't happen again, i'll give every body back their guns (after registering them of course-just like my dog, my car, my vote etc.)
1
How can this horrific incident surprise anyone? Our culture is saturated with firearm violence. If you've been to the movies or watched television lately chances are you've seen more rounds discharged than most current military personnel. We have a rabid right-to-bear-arms crowd, and a gun lobby, determined to ensure that the American domestic arsenal remains the most lethal in the world. Thirty-two people were shot here in Chicago just this past weekend. Many, maybe most, of the victims probably didn't have any relationship with their assailant, either, as they were probably unintended targets of gang maniacs with no marksmanship skills.
So a presumably depressed, angry-at-an-unfair-world, financially-strapped middle-aged guy reaches a nothing-to-lose point and espresses his displeasure by spraying the streets of his town with gunfire. This surprises us? Why do we even bother to ask pointless questions like "why?" or "where did he get the gun?". He got the gun from ME. He got the gun from YOU. We as a nation, we as a culture, told him it was just fine to murder anyone within range of that gun. No problem. It's The American Way.
So a presumably depressed, angry-at-an-unfair-world, financially-strapped middle-aged guy reaches a nothing-to-lose point and espresses his displeasure by spraying the streets of his town with gunfire. This surprises us? Why do we even bother to ask pointless questions like "why?" or "where did he get the gun?". He got the gun from ME. He got the gun from YOU. We as a nation, we as a culture, told him it was just fine to murder anyone within range of that gun. No problem. It's The American Way.
110
And you really think that if there were no guns for personal use, that would make it all better? Seriously? Have you heard about the British soldier who was massacred on a city street in broad daylight? The weapon there was a machete in the hands of someone who was extremely mentally ill. How about Theresa Saldana, a model who had acid thrown in her face while walking along a New York City street? Or the sister in law of Dr. Phil, who was the victim of acid thrown from an overpass while she was a passenger in a car on that particular highway? Or how about whoever it was that poisoned Tylenol years ago?. Those were deadly attacks on random people by individuals who were mentally ill. There is nothing that can not be made into a weapon. Get over the knee jerk reactions to the weapon used in such horrible instances, and spend some time, energy, attention and money on what on Earth is happening to the mental health of people in supposedly civilized countries.
1
sherry,
Yes, you can kill people with things besides guns. But you can kill a lot more people a lot more easily with a gun.
The 2nd Amendment tells you people have the right to keep and bear arms. Well, when it was written, the only guns available required you to reload after every shot. The increasing lethality of semiautomatic weapons is what has caused the big increase in mass shootings at a time when violent crime in general is down. No one but the military or police should have weapons of this lethality.
Yes, you can kill people with things besides guns. But you can kill a lot more people a lot more easily with a gun.
The 2nd Amendment tells you people have the right to keep and bear arms. Well, when it was written, the only guns available required you to reload after every shot. The increasing lethality of semiautomatic weapons is what has caused the big increase in mass shootings at a time when violent crime in general is down. No one but the military or police should have weapons of this lethality.
Sherry: Yes. I am absolutely certain that eliminating, or even making a reasonably vigorous effort to tightly control public firearm ownership would "make it better". I have seen enough of the rest of the civilized world to be convinced of this.
Humans have always been unpredictable animals. Some of us are driven to commit blind mayhem on each other. Others commit not-so-blind acts of deadly violence. Gun control cannot prevent that. But sane, energetic, effective, nationally-consistent gun control law enforcement can prevent such people from, say, killing dozens of people in a few minutes.
I am not a gun sportsman and get sick at the sight of guns. But I am willing to face my own aversions to acknowledge that there are people who enjoy safely shooting guns as sport in America. Are you willing to face your aversions to admit that America needs much greater firearm control as soon as possible?
Humans have always been unpredictable animals. Some of us are driven to commit blind mayhem on each other. Others commit not-so-blind acts of deadly violence. Gun control cannot prevent that. But sane, energetic, effective, nationally-consistent gun control law enforcement can prevent such people from, say, killing dozens of people in a few minutes.
I am not a gun sportsman and get sick at the sight of guns. But I am willing to face my own aversions to acknowledge that there are people who enjoy safely shooting guns as sport in America. Are you willing to face your aversions to admit that America needs much greater firearm control as soon as possible?
1
If the victim had owned guns that were drawn and preferably cocked they would still probably have been killed. How is the NRA able to exist? Why do we allow them to perpetuate a dangerous myth that guns make us safer and support the manufacture and sale of tools that have no apparent purpose other than to kill? Well, where's the moral outrage?
15
I really wish the media would stop calling these tragedies "sprees." A spree is a careful, happy lark. These should be called murderous rampages. Words have meaning.
10
"In the rural area outside the city where Mr. Dalton lived" There are a number of comments regarding the suspects firing his gun out the backdoor of his house. While I don't claim to know why he did this I do know that gunfire in rural area's is far more common than people realize. Both the ownership and use of guns in a rural setting is quite different then in urban and suburban area's and this may be why neighbors didn't find his behavior all that unusual. People often shoot at pests such as squirrels and raccoon's, or backyard target practice. We just don't know and obviously the neighbors didn't find him threatening. We should not read to much into that behavior other than people who own guns can be quite nonchalant and careless in their use especially in the country with its shot up road signs and other indications of the guns as toys mentality. Familiarity breeds contempt and safety is often a casualty of a much too blase gun culture.
4
Why bother with comments at this point? There have been 25 mass shootings in the US so far this year, THREE SINCE Kalamazoo.
Check the toll daily @
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
It's the first thing I do in the morning, like checking the weather to see what kind of day I'm gonna have. It's so fun....
"I am bored. I am bored."
~ GABRIELE D'ANNUNZIO
Dying words
(1863-1938)
Italian poet, novelist, playwright,
playboy, war hero, and adventurer.
Check the toll daily @
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
It's the first thing I do in the morning, like checking the weather to see what kind of day I'm gonna have. It's so fun....
"I am bored. I am bored."
~ GABRIELE D'ANNUNZIO
Dying words
(1863-1938)
Italian poet, novelist, playwright,
playboy, war hero, and adventurer.
5
Why is this mass shooting not being reported like all the other mass shootings, particularly if this man were Muslim?
And putting aside the different treatment for people of color and Muslims, it is not really being covered with the usual breathless and hysterical coverage. Is this because it was a drive-by shooting, so more like the every day shootings we ignore?
And putting aside the different treatment for people of color and Muslims, it is not really being covered with the usual breathless and hysterical coverage. Is this because it was a drive-by shooting, so more like the every day shootings we ignore?
14
So this guy was a driver for Uber? Are we to assume that Uber is now a well-regulated militia?
19
Another "random" act of madness, abetted by a gun, another stream of media sensationalism and hand-wringing, until the next one, and the next, and the next. If some psychotic miscreant shows up with an assault rifle at a kindergarten playground during lunch break and opens fire, will we do something then? Anything? Tragically, given recent events and the obscene inaction of Congress, I don't think so. For our kids and their kids, this is the "new normal" in a country that's degenerated into it's own peculiar madness when it comes to dealing, or more truthfully, NOT dealing with responsible, reasonable federal regulation of private gun ownership. Thanks, Justice Scalia. One of your enduring "gifts" to America. Wish you were still here so I could hear your public sophistry about this latest nightmare.
26
Following 14 people shot in San Bernardino, legislators untied in fury to snuff out immigration from Syria and demand stricter vetting on refugees whereas after 1,500 gun related deaths so far in 2016 (including 20 children and 9 police officers) those same legislators and GOP presidential candidates are mum; can't be bothered to address such a scourge.
Rare instances of religiously ideological murders have more weight than the prevalent ones brought on by crimes of passion and the common denominator of easily accessible firearms (armslist.com) is routinely ignored.
No amount of reasonable personal responsibility can prevent citizens from being shot and a US government that doesn't address 12,000 annual gun related homicides has failed the population.
Rare instances of religiously ideological murders have more weight than the prevalent ones brought on by crimes of passion and the common denominator of easily accessible firearms (armslist.com) is routinely ignored.
No amount of reasonable personal responsibility can prevent citizens from being shot and a US government that doesn't address 12,000 annual gun related homicides has failed the population.
12
I am starting to get "crazy shooter" fatigue, and this is not a good sign. There are so many gun deaths annually in the U.S., news of another does not raise an eyebrow anymore.
This is the very picture of disenfranchisement from the U.S. government. The majority of voters favor stricter gun control laws, yet Congress fails to act. Anyone can buy a range of weapons, and Congress fails to act.
Is it any wonder people can read about Kalamazoo and just shrug, think, "I can't do anything about it." and move on?
An unresponsive Congress, bought by a wealthy NRA and other arms manufacturers and sellers, is directly responsible for these deaths. These Congresspeople must be voted out of office, and replaced by representatives who listen to their constituents.
This is the very picture of disenfranchisement from the U.S. government. The majority of voters favor stricter gun control laws, yet Congress fails to act. Anyone can buy a range of weapons, and Congress fails to act.
Is it any wonder people can read about Kalamazoo and just shrug, think, "I can't do anything about it." and move on?
An unresponsive Congress, bought by a wealthy NRA and other arms manufacturers and sellers, is directly responsible for these deaths. These Congresspeople must be voted out of office, and replaced by representatives who listen to their constituents.
17
Vote them out! Do not vote for anyone who stands with the NRA or blocks gun control legislation.
3
Just another red-blooded white American male exercising his second amendment rights. What's the big deal??
17
Spree killing is a known category in criminology. There is nothing particularly novel about this event. But is is ominous in the sense that spree killings are often indicators of a deep-seated instability in society, which becomes a kind of contagion, acting upon people who are already predisposed to violence. This is why I find all this talk about revolution unsettling. When a revolution happens, people like this killer often float to the surface with predictable results.
5
The last real job this guy seems to have had is in 2011. He has been disenfranchised for a long time. Perhaps he is mentally ill or he just had a lot of time to build up anger.
Unemployed/underemployed people and trouble go hand in hand. Don't believe me? Look at low income/high unemployment black neighborhoods.
Our economy is not friendly to the average or marginal worker. CEO's like Jack Welch of GE are glorified that cut the bottom 25% workers so the return on capital is higher for stockholders which are primarily the top 1%. Jobs are moved overseas while labor is brought in to compete putting even more pressure on the average worker. Who gains? The top 1% for the most part.
Does anyone see a pattern? It's all circular. The insatiable greed to maximize returns on invested capital, which is held by the top 1%, is grinding our neighbors into the dirt and 3rd world status.
So we throw people out like trash and then wonder why they don't respect our social conventions like an honest days work, sanctity of life, etc. So the solution is to neuter their anger by taking away guns? We never cared about these people in the first place.
The only golden rule this country understand is "he who has the gold rules."
Unemployed/underemployed people and trouble go hand in hand. Don't believe me? Look at low income/high unemployment black neighborhoods.
Our economy is not friendly to the average or marginal worker. CEO's like Jack Welch of GE are glorified that cut the bottom 25% workers so the return on capital is higher for stockholders which are primarily the top 1%. Jobs are moved overseas while labor is brought in to compete putting even more pressure on the average worker. Who gains? The top 1% for the most part.
Does anyone see a pattern? It's all circular. The insatiable greed to maximize returns on invested capital, which is held by the top 1%, is grinding our neighbors into the dirt and 3rd world status.
So we throw people out like trash and then wonder why they don't respect our social conventions like an honest days work, sanctity of life, etc. So the solution is to neuter their anger by taking away guns? We never cared about these people in the first place.
The only golden rule this country understand is "he who has the gold rules."
15
People's right of assembly and free practice of religion trumps the second amendment's right to bear arms. In the last few months, we have had people shot and killed in churches, on college campuses, in movie theaters, and now while sitting in their cars outside a restaurant and at a car dealership. Enough. The founders never intended this level of mayhem.
Background checks for everyone -- meaningful ones, that might take a few days. And reduce the number of guns floating around out there. Guns are to be registered and heavily insured. No insurance, no gun ownership. We could manage Switzerland-style gun legislation if the NRA had not bought too many of our cowardly legislators. Also: fund the CDC to study gun violence deaths, and make recommendations on lessening the toll.
We won't stop every shooting and every spree, but we could greatly reduce the carnage. And must.
Background checks for everyone -- meaningful ones, that might take a few days. And reduce the number of guns floating around out there. Guns are to be registered and heavily insured. No insurance, no gun ownership. We could manage Switzerland-style gun legislation if the NRA had not bought too many of our cowardly legislators. Also: fund the CDC to study gun violence deaths, and make recommendations on lessening the toll.
We won't stop every shooting and every spree, but we could greatly reduce the carnage. And must.
69
This is only common sense. The problem lies in the paranoic belief that any form of gun control is merely prelude to confiscation of all firearms by the government. The NRA is largely responsible for fueling this fable and there are those out there who believe it.
2
That Cracker Barrel restaurant is on the south side of I-94 at the Oshtemo exit, a whistle stop suburb just west of Kalamazoo. I've eaten there - nice place - and no one would ever expect something like that to happen in such a pleasant area. There is a trailer park behind the restaurant, but that, too, is higher end, very well maintained. There is a modern motel next to the restaurant, and on the other side of the expressway is a McDonalds and a gas station. I've been to where that dealership is, too - also a quiet, modern, pleasant suburban area west of town.
I've been in Kalamazoo many times, and it's the kind if place you would never expect something like that to happen, mostly modern, upbeat, and a university town. Western Michigan University is there. What a horrible tragedy!
I've been in Kalamazoo many times, and it's the kind if place you would never expect something like that to happen, mostly modern, upbeat, and a university town. Western Michigan University is there. What a horrible tragedy!
2
This guy has a history of firing his pistol out his back door, and no one ever reported it? I thought there were laws about discharging weapons in public places. When a round is fired into the air, the slug has to come down somewhere, possibly on a neighbor's head. Maybe if a neighbor had reported that, his gun would have been confiscated and, with a record, he wouldn't have been allowed to get another.
5
So now we should probably start talking about barring white males from the country along with Muslims. Hell - we should be deporting them! Or, lets be more realistic and talk about gun control.
Terribly sad and scary. I live in Michigan and this is really hitting home.
Terribly sad and scary. I live in Michigan and this is really hitting home.
14
Isn't MI one of the states that allows blind people to own and shoot guns?
There is a 14 year old girl fighting for her life in the hospital, and you choose to make this about race? Besides, this dude, not being able to find decent employment for 5 years, has already been disenfranchised from participation in our civilization - so you got your wish even before you made it! And he, along with many people of other races and ethnic backgrounds in similar circumstances, probably would have been better off if they were deported to some country where people actually cared about what happened to them. So, congratulations. You hit the nail on the head there, too!
The Kalamazoo shooting spree happened the same day Justice Antonin Scalia was laid to rest (he wrote the 5-4 DC vs. Heller Supreme Court decision that struck down DC's gun laws), and the same evening Donald Trump won the South Carolina primary, pledging to protect the Second Amendment as part of the usual laundry list of his remarks.
Can't we protect the American people, rather than enshrine the poorly worded Second Amendment? All these guns are not keeping us safe. Quite the opposite.
Can't we protect the American people, rather than enshrine the poorly worded Second Amendment? All these guns are not keeping us safe. Quite the opposite.
17
Motive: I was angry
I had a gun
PS....notice how many armed citizens there were out there protecting those who died.
PPS Imagine what would have happened if the police came across one of those "armed" citizens in the course of this. What does the cop do? What do they think? Who is the bad guy.
Throwing "armed" civilians into any mix where police should be handling things is a recipe for further disaster.
I had a gun
PS....notice how many armed citizens there were out there protecting those who died.
PPS Imagine what would have happened if the police came across one of those "armed" citizens in the course of this. What does the cop do? What do they think? Who is the bad guy.
Throwing "armed" civilians into any mix where police should be handling things is a recipe for further disaster.
8
Why is the gunman always mentioned as an Uber driver? If he worked for, say, General Electric, would that have to be mentioned every time he was? What does Uber even have to do with this?
4
He carried his gun in his car while he drove for Uber.
2
That he was in his vehicle as part of his job, that he had a big ol' weapon with him, that he transported people during his madness, that his erratic driving had been a concern to a client -- these are the reasons that Uber is mentioned. He's not just a guy in a car. He's a guy in a car who is supposed to be trustworthy. That's the whole premise of the Uber system.
BTW, I love the Uber concept and have had wonderful, easy, timely rides with Uber drivers. This horrible shooting is very weird, but the shooter's access to his victim was during a night's work.
BTW, I love the Uber concept and have had wonderful, easy, timely rides with Uber drivers. This horrible shooting is very weird, but the shooter's access to his victim was during a night's work.
1
He was picking up people before, in between, and after his shootings. His job as an Uber driver put several people in grave danger, including his last riders, who took Uber because they knew there was a shooter at large and thought it would be prudent to get a ride instead of walking back to their hotel. Little did they know that the shooter was behind the wheel. Luckily, he did not kill any of his passengers. I have no strong feelings for or against Uber (have never used it), but the fact that he continued to work giving rides between murders adds a chilling dimension to this story, and makes an insanity plea rather implausible.
1
I also want people to be aware in this election year that made the Grover Norquist promise to get GOP elected last time are indeed in trouble financially and if not the poor and middle class have paid a terrible price. The game plan I've been witnessing is placating the citizens, particularly white citizens, are gun rights. So we're seeing new loose gun laws, campus carry laws, OC States (TX), no permit CC's, no permit long guns, etc. Kind of like giving candy to babies. Dangerous precedents.
8
The old "I don't have much but damn it, I've got my guns!" approach to citizen management. Genius. But then, we've never fallen for the idea the GOP cares about us at all. Just money. More and more glorious green paper.
Motive?? He don't need a stinkin motive, he's an American, with a gun.
Nothing new in here, move along.
Nothing new in here, move along.
8
He caught his neighbors' attention when he occasionally shot a gun out the back door of his house? Is this normal behavior these days?
37
Yes, in Michigan. It's also normal behavior to open carry while going about daily routines, like the gas station, the grocery store, school board meetings, etc. And now there's a bill in the MI legislature to not require permits for handgun ownership. Uninfringed gun ownership trumps public safety.
5
Yes.
4
I live in the wild west of Montana and if I fired one round out my back door the city cops would show up pretty quick. This guy live in city limits or county?
5
As mental illnesses increase in these insane times, it seems exponentially, it is so very tragic that programs to treat the mentally ill continue to be defunded. This national horror should be one of the first lines of defense for "homeland security". When will we (voters) ever learn?
12
The 'mental illness' lies within those who carry the delusion that guns make us safer. Please address the problem properly. There are thousands of variants of personalities and emotions which are not 'mental illness' under medical guidelines. The sickness resides in those who insist on blaming mental illness for a social derangement engendered and perpetuated by the NRA. Therein is the illness. It is a social pathology that will destroy this union as we know it. Guns kill, frequently and effectively. Therein lies the sickness.
15
I agree, but also, we should stop saying "Guns kill" and instead say "People kill with their guns."
This doesn't sound like a mentally ill person. It sounds like a person having a perfectly sane and human response to his diminishing possibilities in life because our "leaders" have shipped our jobs overseas and depressed wages at home for the past 40 years. This is what hopelessness looks like in a heavily-armed country.
I am so tired of gun rights people constantly yelling about self-protection.
Even if every one of the victims had their own gun, it would not have made a difference. Too quick, too unsuspected. Most of our gun deaths are unexpected and no gun will protect you in that situation. So people die and die and die and die and America does nothing except make it easier to buy and carry guns. And will someone please explain why the 2nd amendment starts out with "a well regulated militia" clause if the founding fathers meant nothing by it. For all our "greatness" we can be a bunch of uncivilized people.
Even if every one of the victims had their own gun, it would not have made a difference. Too quick, too unsuspected. Most of our gun deaths are unexpected and no gun will protect you in that situation. So people die and die and die and die and America does nothing except make it easier to buy and carry guns. And will someone please explain why the 2nd amendment starts out with "a well regulated militia" clause if the founding fathers meant nothing by it. For all our "greatness" we can be a bunch of uncivilized people.
152
We know the lack of guns didn't do the victims any good. We know that Mr. Dalton could have easily acquired all the illegal guns he wanted. So your call for restrictions and even a reversal of the Heller decision would have done the victims no good at all. I am so tired of gun control folks who ignore the millions of illegal guns and think the answer is making it harder to get a gun legally. For all our "greatness" we can be a bunch of self-righteous oblivious people.
1
The courts call the shots in this matter. It's a matter of life and death the next person on the Supreme Court be a liberal or close to it. Conservative interpretation of the Second Amendment is by the courts is killing us, literally. Not the terrorists.
9
Aurel Great comment.
3
Nothing is ever going to happen. There will never be any form of firearm regulation. So just get used to crazies shooting up neighborhoods. Armed America: Love it or leave it!
14
Tragedy after tragedy after tragedy. In this case, the cause appears to be the shooter's simple-minded obsession to use his weapon. I wonder if any of the Texas legislators who just recently passed the "college carry" law are having second thoughts.
20
Unlikely.
1
This is incredibly sad and the photo of the women at the Centerpoint Church vigil captures that grief. Why does anyone go around shooting people indiscriminately?
I have been to Kalamazoo many times and met wonderful people there. This is community that is struggling somewhat, especially after Pfizer bought Pharmacia (formerly Upjohn) and shuttered all R&D there. It was a big site.
But Kalamazoo also benefits from the generosity of its local citizens. The NYT has run stories on the "Kalamazoo Promise." An anonymous donor is paying for in-state college tuition for all high school students from the city that are accepted. And the biennial Gilmore piano festival is held there, founded by Irving S. Gilmore, who was related by marriage to the Upjohn family.
This is a terrible tragedy, which I feel quite acutely. We've got to become much better at stopping gun violence in the US.
I have been to Kalamazoo many times and met wonderful people there. This is community that is struggling somewhat, especially after Pfizer bought Pharmacia (formerly Upjohn) and shuttered all R&D there. It was a big site.
But Kalamazoo also benefits from the generosity of its local citizens. The NYT has run stories on the "Kalamazoo Promise." An anonymous donor is paying for in-state college tuition for all high school students from the city that are accepted. And the biennial Gilmore piano festival is held there, founded by Irving S. Gilmore, who was related by marriage to the Upjohn family.
This is a terrible tragedy, which I feel quite acutely. We've got to become much better at stopping gun violence in the US.
16
When I read the first reports that somebody went around shooting people at random, I figured the guy was white. When I read that he was arrested without incident, I was sure he was white. His picture comes out, and surprise, he's white.
27
How very white and elitist of you to notice that! You can save your virtue signaling for something else, there is a girl in critical condition in the hospital and you're making this about your hobby horse.
1
It's not elitist at all to notice how very different the treatment is of criminals in this country based on their skin color and religion.
1
a, your anger and worry on behalf of the young girl is admirable. But she LIVED. What about the people who died? Where is your anger about them? And on behalf of their families? And of their friends? Why is your only focus on the girl who is struggling? EVERYONE related to this story is struggling.
2
just waiting for the media to say he is just misguided and mentally ill and need help.
7
Frankly, he is beyond help. The people who need help are the legislators who condone the "open carry" laws and refuse to do the right thing to stop the carnage.
It is interesting that gins are not permitted in Congress or in the State Legislators chambers.
It is interesting that gins are not permitted in Congress or in the State Legislators chambers.
2
Does anyone honestly believe that this event's stories would consistently be printed below the fold if Jason were Muhammad?
24
Why wasn't this the lead story on the nightly news last night as opposed to the cast of clowns making up the republican primary?
If the killer was Muslim, you can bet your last dollar that it would have been.
If the killer was Muslim, you can bet your last dollar that it would have been.
51
I'm glad you found a way to make this about your righteous indignation rather than the girl who is on life support in the hospital.
I have a suspicion that among this man's anger was that after signing on to drive for the mighty Uber, he realized that he was actually driving for less than minimum wage inspite of all the promises of a living wage that has become a myth for the wording class.
15
Was he forced to sign up to be a Uber driver?
3
No, but as an American he was forced to scavenge for work. That was not what he was promised. Ironically, he probably voted for politicians who made it harder and harder for people to find work and support themselves in a dignified fashion. He lost hope. He had nothing to lose. He took strangers down with him.
What’s to understand here? Simply put, yet again a dysfunctional individual in some form of crisis has taken his cue from a society which broadly proclaims - no, which shouts and screams - that firearms are our God and Constitutionally given right and the ultimate answer to whatever fears, angers, hates injustices, etc. etc. etc. threaten or befall us. And he has reacted and acted accordingly. His motives are irrelevant. It is the message that the gun is the answer and everyone is encouraged and entitled to have one. That is the underlying cause of this plague of gun violence which our nation has willingly fallen victim to.
108
Very true. Another Republican policy inflicting damage on this country.
Right wing messaging resulting in predictable response:
- Everyone should have a gun, the resolution to all problems --> increase in random shootings
- Compromise is unacceptable (notwithstanding the fact that the entire structure of our government is based on the recognition that governing IS compromising - people will disagree, always) --> Gov't shutdown and least productive congress in decades.
- Hate all government and polarize against non-Republicans with loud anger, ignore facts and just repeat your unsupportable positions --> Trump as nominee.
The conservative right has very bad ideas.....don't use them.
Right wing messaging resulting in predictable response:
- Everyone should have a gun, the resolution to all problems --> increase in random shootings
- Compromise is unacceptable (notwithstanding the fact that the entire structure of our government is based on the recognition that governing IS compromising - people will disagree, always) --> Gov't shutdown and least productive congress in decades.
- Hate all government and polarize against non-Republicans with loud anger, ignore facts and just repeat your unsupportable positions --> Trump as nominee.
The conservative right has very bad ideas.....don't use them.
If people want their guns then they should get used to this stuff. Save the empty platitudes, the memorials and the wreaths. Gun lovers don't care and won't care until it happens to one of their loved ones. And it will happen again and again....just another day in the USA. Bill Maher is right. America is a stupid country.
22
Reading the comments, I'm startled and saddened by the lack of insight.
The NYT invites us to "share your thoughts." I'm very thankful for that. The opportunity allows me to keep my sanity, unlike my earthly neighbor Jason Dalton. I've read all the comments so far, many I agree with, but, I'm not going to repeat any of them here. I have a mantra to offer here, a few words to aid my concentration in meditation, NOT a statement or slogan repeated over and over in monotony regarding such shootings. Putting mental illness aside, and putting the gun issues aside, we all bear the responsibility to contemplate the larger issue we face as a country and as an earthly globe. I'm not preaching here, I'm meditating, and I'm not praying about the innocent people who lost their lives. I think of all the gunners who do this, and since they all seem powerless to change their own sad lives, like ignored children, they act out an inner rage against a cruel world they fail to comprehend. Did his wife comprehend the problem he had? Or was she not at home during the times he shot a gun out the back door? His neighbors obviously failed to be good neighbors. They seem to have been silent, like those who failed to speak out against a holocaust. Many other questions remain, but more serious questions still need to be asked. Is it simply the tyranny of capitalism, or is it the complex failure of neighborhoods like Ferguson MO., San Bernadino CA., and Damascus Syria? Where does dysfunction originate?
7
The shame of it all. I am sick and tired of corrupt politicians who will not enact proper gun legislation, which is of course, not the sham that "background checks" are. The proper thing to do is to simply ban guns other than for special purposes such as law enforcement.
15
This guy fits the profile of a "responsible" gun owner that all of the sudden snapped.
We need to stop the political discourse and treat gun violence as it should: as a health epidemic.
We need to stop the political discourse and treat gun violence as it should: as a health epidemic.
18
Tell that to Rep. Bob Goodlatte, who is letting the bills pile up on his desk as he stonewalls.
2
Not Mark...
There are six things going on in the US simultaneously that is dysfunctional, dangerous and destructive:
1) Increase in mental stress: that is not diagnosed or is diagnosed (but no red flag is attached to it for violence). Predicting violence even in cases of paranoid Schizophrenia is very hard.
2) Increased isolation and alienation among youth, single men, middle aged white men, unemployed men, rural men and men in working class neighborhoods.
3) Increase in drug abuse and drug addiction (including prescription drugs), alcoholism. food addiction, porn addiction...(all mostly among men).
4) Growing poverty, growing economic insecurity, growing inequality and growing awareness of the inequality that causes depression, anxiety, anger and outrage. This also includes an awareness that oligarchy and plutocracy are on the increase.
5) Easy access to guns, many guns, combat weapons, etc.
6) A power base that is incompetent, unreliable, careless, reckless, cronyistic, tribalistic and serving the 1% and 5%
Bernie got it right:
We need a mental health revolution tied to social revolution tied to economic revolution tied to political revolution.
They are all connected...
You cannot ignore one or the other. They all have to be addressed.
We need sophisticated mental health workers who understand this at the individual, psychological, familial, social, economic, public, community, political and paradigmatic levels.
There are six things going on in the US simultaneously that is dysfunctional, dangerous and destructive:
1) Increase in mental stress: that is not diagnosed or is diagnosed (but no red flag is attached to it for violence). Predicting violence even in cases of paranoid Schizophrenia is very hard.
2) Increased isolation and alienation among youth, single men, middle aged white men, unemployed men, rural men and men in working class neighborhoods.
3) Increase in drug abuse and drug addiction (including prescription drugs), alcoholism. food addiction, porn addiction...(all mostly among men).
4) Growing poverty, growing economic insecurity, growing inequality and growing awareness of the inequality that causes depression, anxiety, anger and outrage. This also includes an awareness that oligarchy and plutocracy are on the increase.
5) Easy access to guns, many guns, combat weapons, etc.
6) A power base that is incompetent, unreliable, careless, reckless, cronyistic, tribalistic and serving the 1% and 5%
Bernie got it right:
We need a mental health revolution tied to social revolution tied to economic revolution tied to political revolution.
They are all connected...
You cannot ignore one or the other. They all have to be addressed.
We need sophisticated mental health workers who understand this at the individual, psychological, familial, social, economic, public, community, political and paradigmatic levels.
13
A revolution like in Russia, Egypt, Venezuela or Cambodia? If it happens, the current level of violence will be the "good, old days".
1
I have a theory about this peculiar behavior that seems to occur solely and with regularity in this country. It has to do with powerlessness. Most of the citizens in this country truly believed in the American Dream of a democratic way of life where the welfare of the people was of utmost consideration. We were valued for our abilities and our contribution to society and the world. We had power, at least over our own lives. Now that we live in a corporatocracy, that feeling has vanished altogether. Our once-influential labor unions are reduced to pitiful mewlings, and what remains of them is continually being annihilated by those of Scott Walkers ilk. The other thing that we thought meant something in the power scheme, voting, has become meaningless. As Mark Twain famously said, if it really made any difference, they wouldn't allow us to do it. Gerrymandering, payoffs, ballot box tampering and superdelegates, not to mention the electoral college, have all combined to make us powerless there as well. All of the reliable, good, middle-class jobs that we could take pride in doing are gone. If you aren't rich in the U.S., you're poor. What, then, gives us any real power? Is there anyone who can't see that some desperate people can be counted on to behave in desperate ways? Those who don't cling to god too often choose to cling to guns as their solution. There has to be a revolution in this country. It isn't too late to choose to make it a peaceful uprising.
19
“Never contend with a man who has nothing to lose.” The founders of UBER are literally worth over a billion dollars each. Their UBER drivers...not so much...this has got to stop.
4
There is much truth in your theory of powerlessness. However, your analysis is lacking in one respect. It is also the rich who feel powerless as well.
In other words, insofar as they cannot get even more of what they already have..namely wealth and the political power that goes with it...they feel powerless.
Until they have full control of this country, the rich feel powerless, and that explains the Koch phenomenon.
In other words, insofar as they cannot get even more of what they already have..namely wealth and the political power that goes with it...they feel powerless.
Until they have full control of this country, the rich feel powerless, and that explains the Koch phenomenon.
5
Minor over-site, correction to the amount quoted above, Travis Kalanick, the CEO & Founder of UBER is worth over 6 billion today.
Crazy. I never heard of a taxi driver killing 6 people while on duty. This sounds like new that from this Uber driver? I think a dispatcher for a cab company might have noticed something was wrong.
4
Let's follow the lead in Great Britain, where handguns are illegal, or let's stop pretending that we care about gun violence in this nation.
Or you could just write the shell of this story and keep it on hand for every other incident of gun violence that will erupt in America from now until the end of time:
X number of people dead, the gunman killed or in custody, and law enforcement and local officials "baffled" as they "scramble" to "understand" this "tragedy." The President "pleads for/pledges" greater controls on guns, while the NRA "stands up for/vigorously defends" Americans' right to own weapons and makes yet another pitch for its "responsible gun ownership/Second Amendment advocacy" classes.
Or you could just write the shell of this story and keep it on hand for every other incident of gun violence that will erupt in America from now until the end of time:
X number of people dead, the gunman killed or in custody, and law enforcement and local officials "baffled" as they "scramble" to "understand" this "tragedy." The President "pleads for/pledges" greater controls on guns, while the NRA "stands up for/vigorously defends" Americans' right to own weapons and makes yet another pitch for its "responsible gun ownership/Second Amendment advocacy" classes.
23
The article focuses on motive. People are complex and when they do horrible, outrageous things, thinking people know that the key to understanding why is understanding the out-of--control killer. Those who ignore the person and focus on the gun have the answer for all gun killings before they even happen. Those people have a ready made solution to all violence. It's in the nature of religion -- ploughshares from guns. A religious-type outlook-- one answer for all -- is a dubious way to solve the complex problems of the modern world. But it works for some. Anti-gun evangelists believe that guns are the answer to our violence problem. They think like Protestant evangelists think about abortion. The subject is different, but the quality of thought is the same. They both believe there is only one right course and the rest of us are damned.
4
I think we're in a war of attrition here in support the 2nd amendment. Those who would shoot themselves or others represent a fraction of our population. Darwin suggests this is a self limiting species, which will eventually end itself. But in the process it will take out a significant number of innocent bystanders. So, we might want to view all the shooting victims as acceptable losses, as does the NRA.
4
Snyder's one party government is to blame for this because these neocons are making people poorer and then they making sure that unstable people can get guns.
18
"Neighbors described him as quiet and polite, though he caught their attention when he occasionally shot a gun out the back door of the house he shared with his wife and two children. "
Sounds "quiet and polite" to me.
Sounds "quiet and polite" to me.
12
My question: Just how did the neighbors know that he hadn't shot a wayward pet or a visitor or a UPS driver or another neighbor? Just let the shot echo recede and forget about it? "It's just Mr. Dalton again."
1
I sat in my kitchen Saturday and watched parts of the Scalia funeral. I listened to words explaining him; giant, joker, wise, lover of the constitution, a great teacher, a man of great faith, a federalist of sorts. This in many ways is a fitting end to Saturday as nobody in the past week mentioned he unleashed guns on the populace. This is what happens when you decide each person has a right to be their very own militia a multiple gun solute. Kalamazoo I cry for you, I cry for every woman who tries to leave her abuser, I cry for every baby who finds a gun, Scalia I never cried for you.
62
Anna:, This is the perfect national eulogy. The one for those of us who must live with the consequences of Scalia's colossally mindless and malevolent misreading of the Second Amendment.
13
More vigils, more thoughts and prayers. Until we replace these passive, helpless responses with active, angry street protests against the NRA and their minions in Congress, nothing will change.
26
will 'going uber' now become part of th lexicon ?
13
It seems that Uber may have made this nut-ball snap. He received many low ratings and was otherwise out of work. Uber must be regulated, they cannot be allowed to make their own rules.
In a traditional taxi company, other employees and management would notice an out of control off his meds crazy, and not let him drive.
If you feel that Global Warming is an issue, it is insane to support Uber. NYC has been working very hard to reduce the carbon print of it's taxi fleet, then along comes Uber, with it's massive SUVs that appeal to millennials.
The point here is that Uber is an inhuman monster. They refuse to provide accessible vehicles, they refuse to treat their drivers with respect and pretend the drivers are not employees.
Uber MUST be stopped and controlled.
In a traditional taxi company, other employees and management would notice an out of control off his meds crazy, and not let him drive.
If you feel that Global Warming is an issue, it is insane to support Uber. NYC has been working very hard to reduce the carbon print of it's taxi fleet, then along comes Uber, with it's massive SUVs that appeal to millennials.
The point here is that Uber is an inhuman monster. They refuse to provide accessible vehicles, they refuse to treat their drivers with respect and pretend the drivers are not employees.
Uber MUST be stopped and controlled.
14
While we continue to wring our hands and make excuses for why we cannot even enact the commonsense steps that organizations such as the Brady Center and Gabby Gifford's Americans for Sensible Solutions propose, this has become the reality of life in America. Even if you have a good job, you can get killed in a "random act of violence" on your way to it. The only economic cause for this is the greed of the gun industry, not the economic circumstances of the "shooter." Even the media refers to these incidents and "shooting sprees." Maybe if we showed photos of the bodies of the victims - what guns do to them - instead of covering them up with white sheets, supposedly out of respect for their families, it wouldn't be so easy to tolerate this daily occurrence. Meanwhile, it's a boon to flower, candle, balloon and teddy bear sales.
10
ACW and anthony weishar
I'm with you.
I know Uber drivers and some are at the end of the line. According to a driver I know, Uber just lowered rates and increased their % of how much they take. This driver said his pay effective went from $20 an hour to $10 with the new Uber Rates. So he is out.
How much was in Dalton's checking account?
I would be interested to see his Driving patterns and if these were places he picked up people and didn't get a "side" tip.
So many missing pieces of the puzzle that should be quick to answer.
I'm with you.
I know Uber drivers and some are at the end of the line. According to a driver I know, Uber just lowered rates and increased their % of how much they take. This driver said his pay effective went from $20 an hour to $10 with the new Uber Rates. So he is out.
How much was in Dalton's checking account?
I would be interested to see his Driving patterns and if these were places he picked up people and didn't get a "side" tip.
So many missing pieces of the puzzle that should be quick to answer.
6
Late-stage capitalism is killing us. What a sad way to end the promise of America. We had our brief, shining moment. Now we will be but a blip in human history, undetectable in the history of our universe.
1
If only more people were carrying guns, this wouldn't happen! Right?
In the future, if there is one, people will look back on this gun crazy society and wonder how we got so SICK.
In the future, if there is one, people will look back on this gun crazy society and wonder how we got so SICK.
20
A great opportunity for the NYT to reconsider their stance on the death penalty. Will they? No way! A great opportunity for Michigan to bring back the death penalty. Will they? Who knows, but at least they have guns.
1
The death penalty would have no effect on stopping events like this and comes with the horrific certainty that occasionally the innocent will end up executed.
You are asking the worn question: A great opportunity to ask why semi-automatic handguns even exist in the general public ... will you? Will we?
You are asking the worn question: A great opportunity to ask why semi-automatic handguns even exist in the general public ... will you? Will we?
8
How exactly is putting no restrictions on gun purchases making this better? Do you not know one person with a temper that you'd rather didn't have a gun when they go off?
Proper training, care, and ordinary restrictions on unlimited use of powerful killing machines would go some ways towards beginning to stop this.
Arming more people will just make it worse.
Teenagers with guns and not much else have made the middle east and other places into a hell. Do we really want to live in hell? Do we really want to be in the crosshairs of people who self-righteously refuse to learn ordinary civilized behavior?
Meanwhile, I want all public places where gun advocates meet to get rid of their gun restrictions. Congress, the Supreme Court, NRA meetings, and all. Why should I suffer when they protect themselves while attacking my freedom not to be killed.
Liberty ain't much use when you're dead. A death is irrevocable. People yelling about rights don't care about their invisible victims. Perhaps that's the point; kill everyone who disagrees with them.
Frightening, honestly!
Proper training, care, and ordinary restrictions on unlimited use of powerful killing machines would go some ways towards beginning to stop this.
Arming more people will just make it worse.
Teenagers with guns and not much else have made the middle east and other places into a hell. Do we really want to live in hell? Do we really want to be in the crosshairs of people who self-righteously refuse to learn ordinary civilized behavior?
Meanwhile, I want all public places where gun advocates meet to get rid of their gun restrictions. Congress, the Supreme Court, NRA meetings, and all. Why should I suffer when they protect themselves while attacking my freedom not to be killed.
Liberty ain't much use when you're dead. A death is irrevocable. People yelling about rights don't care about their invisible victims. Perhaps that's the point; kill everyone who disagrees with them.
Frightening, honestly!
13
American terrorism has a face and it is not Osama bin Laden. It is an angry white man with a gun. Americans are far more likely to be killed by a white American man with a gun than by a non-citizen Muslim with a bomb.
45
To "Peter": "Americans are far more likely to be killed by a white American man with a gun than by a non-citizen Muslim with a bomb." We can certainly have legitimate conversations about gun violence in this country, but irresponsible, clueless, and hateful comments by you and those who "recommended" your post will not get our nation closer to a solution. Try doing some fact-checking for a change, instead of spouting off the tired, old cliches about whte men, and see who's really killing whom in this country.
1
We are, according to our currently ultra-proliferative pro-gun laws, a nation of people and their elected politician buddies, who simply don't care anymore. About each other and each other's sanity and safety. Period. End of story. Next...
15
Another angry man with a gun and more innocent dead. I'm simply not interested in knowing what Mr. Dalton's "grievances" were.
Look a lot of Americans are angry about this and that, but we don't run out and buy a gun or use our existing arsenal to blow people away.
One of my favorite sayings is, "if nothing changes nothing changes". Sure applies to guns in modern day America.
Look a lot of Americans are angry about this and that, but we don't run out and buy a gun or use our existing arsenal to blow people away.
One of my favorite sayings is, "if nothing changes nothing changes". Sure applies to guns in modern day America.
67
While I can understand the anger and frustration that people feel when these incidents happen, choosing not to care or understand why this man snapped and killed these people is just as bad as those who propose some sane level of gun laws...as a society, we should feel obligated to learn about each other and what things could cause these types of incidents...
This is a great idea one in which I believe our President used an EO to direct Congress & the CDC to do so. Neither have.
2
I'm pretty sure the victims don't care why this selfish person decided to go out and kill a bunch of people who have nothing to do with his real, imagined, or perceived problems.
1
The one thing Jeb Bush got right in his campaign was his tweet of a photo of a handgun - with the safety off - and the caption: "America."
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were involved in 84,258 nonfatal injuries and 11,208 deaths by homicide, 21,175 by suicide, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge, and 281 deaths due to "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). A total of 1.3% of all deaths in the U.S. that year were related to firearms.
If that figure represented deaths from an epidemic of illness there would be a call for a cure, a nationwide effort to halt this deadly disease. Instead, the gun advocates scream at anything they perceive to be an attempt to curb free access to firearms.
When was the last time you heard someone protest against a measure that would limit "my right to contract cholera"?
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were involved in 84,258 nonfatal injuries and 11,208 deaths by homicide, 21,175 by suicide, 505 deaths due to accidental discharge, and 281 deaths due to "undetermined intent" for a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms (excluding firearm deaths due to legal intervention). A total of 1.3% of all deaths in the U.S. that year were related to firearms.
If that figure represented deaths from an epidemic of illness there would be a call for a cure, a nationwide effort to halt this deadly disease. Instead, the gun advocates scream at anything they perceive to be an attempt to curb free access to firearms.
When was the last time you heard someone protest against a measure that would limit "my right to contract cholera"?
53
all the time. just listen to the anti-vaxers. same denial of reality with a tremendous social cost.
2
Interesting thing about bullets shot into the air--physics mind you--they come down at approximately the same speed they left the barrel of the gun. A colleague of mine was with a friend in New Orleans at Mardi Gras years ago. Her friend dropped to the ground. A bullet, shot somewhere in celebration, had killed her in an instant. The shooter never knew, and the police never found the shooter. No way I would let shooting in the air pass without getting authorities involved.
54
This is true in a vacuum, but a bullet fired in the atmosphere immediately starts slowing down due to air resistance. A bullet shot straight up will come down much slower than it went up, and would cause a bruise, but probably not a wound (it is the equivalent of simply dropping a bullet from a tall building). A serious wound would require that the bullet had not yet had time to be slowed by air resistance, so these accidents usually occur when the gun is fired at a shallow angle, and the victim is nearby.
4
I wonder how "small government" Republican voters feel about getting "authorities" involved. I suspect their interest in utilizing public employees increases in cases where they have direct experience of harm, and severely decreases where they don't.
Another typical day in America.
36
I had always believed that "self-preservation" is the first law of nature until today when I read that neighbors--PLURAL--of a man who shot and killed six people at random and left another gravely wounded described him as "quiet and polite" THOUGH "he occasionally shot a gun out the back door of his home." How could any reasonable person view this type of behavior as anything other than a threat to his/her own life? I would like to know what is the benchmark for abnormal behavior for these people.
43
I live in the Hudson Valley as well and hear shots every so often. I am always anxious and guarded
on these occasions. Never do I believe these shooters are quiet and polite. Contary.
In NYS, there is a law that prohibits gunfire within 500 yards of a neighboring occupied dwelling. Just how this is enforced is beyond me.
Guess it's better than nothing. Certainly feels like
nothing. If I called a Sheriff, (I have) by the time they arrived, the shooter is long gone. How about evidence? Try to find a spent bullet in a field.
Benchmarks? If nationally, guns are loved to the
point of righteousness, then, the neighbors may well be in concert. They may feel more secure knowing the neighbor has a gun or two. They can keep theirs in the drawer.
I find gun ownership frightful. Is this the benchmark?
on these occasions. Never do I believe these shooters are quiet and polite. Contary.
In NYS, there is a law that prohibits gunfire within 500 yards of a neighboring occupied dwelling. Just how this is enforced is beyond me.
Guess it's better than nothing. Certainly feels like
nothing. If I called a Sheriff, (I have) by the time they arrived, the shooter is long gone. How about evidence? Try to find a spent bullet in a field.
Benchmarks? If nationally, guns are loved to the
point of righteousness, then, the neighbors may well be in concert. They may feel more secure knowing the neighbor has a gun or two. They can keep theirs in the drawer.
I find gun ownership frightful. Is this the benchmark?
4
If he were black or some brown color, I bet the cops would have been called at the first random gunshot. On what planet would this ever be conceived that that is okay? These people (probably gun owners themselves) know how far and how lethal a bullet can travel.
BTW, my idiot of a brother trained by the military in the use of guns had a rifle. He was never known to me to own a gun except in relation to his employment (he was at one time an INS agent).
This pinhead decided that he would demonstrate the gun to my younger brother by shooting it in his backyard which fronted on a wooded area. I pointed out that anyone could be walking through that woods right at that moment. What on earth was he thinking!? He didn't shoot it.
Later, I saw him looking down the barrel of the gun. At that point, I left the room. Sure that at any moment he was going to blow his own head off.
A fool and his gun. Or do guns somehow make people feel invincible and throw all caution (to themselves and others) in the wind?
BTW, my idiot of a brother trained by the military in the use of guns had a rifle. He was never known to me to own a gun except in relation to his employment (he was at one time an INS agent).
This pinhead decided that he would demonstrate the gun to my younger brother by shooting it in his backyard which fronted on a wooded area. I pointed out that anyone could be walking through that woods right at that moment. What on earth was he thinking!? He didn't shoot it.
Later, I saw him looking down the barrel of the gun. At that point, I left the room. Sure that at any moment he was going to blow his own head off.
A fool and his gun. Or do guns somehow make people feel invincible and throw all caution (to themselves and others) in the wind?
3
@wilcoworld. I find gun ownership frightful. Is this the benchmark? It is a good starting place.
1
I ask the New York Times to follow up on this.
How did this shooting affect the victims and their loved ones. How did it impact their lives? I'm especially interested in how did it affect them (and us, the taxpayers) financially? Who paid for the funerals? Who paid the doctors and and the hospital? How much did this cost the city of Kalamazoo, and their taxpayers?
I suspect gun violence is not only life-shattering, but also costs the nation billions of dollars. When will gun owners begin paying for their for their "right" (thank you, Mr. Scalia)?
How did this shooting affect the victims and their loved ones. How did it impact their lives? I'm especially interested in how did it affect them (and us, the taxpayers) financially? Who paid for the funerals? Who paid the doctors and and the hospital? How much did this cost the city of Kalamazoo, and their taxpayers?
I suspect gun violence is not only life-shattering, but also costs the nation billions of dollars. When will gun owners begin paying for their for their "right" (thank you, Mr. Scalia)?
41
The annual real cost of gun violence in this country has been estimated by Mother Jones investigative reporting to be $229 BILLION!*
This estimate includes direct and indirect costs including lost wages, short and long term medical costs, costs of jurisprudence and incarceration, etc.
That amounts to $700 a year for EVERY person in the United States.
*What Does Gun Violence Really Cost, Mother Jones, May- June 2015
This estimate includes direct and indirect costs including lost wages, short and long term medical costs, costs of jurisprudence and incarceration, etc.
That amounts to $700 a year for EVERY person in the United States.
*What Does Gun Violence Really Cost, Mother Jones, May- June 2015
13
Presumably, Alito, Kennedy, Roberts, Scalia (RIP) and Thomas would argue that the shooter needed his handguns so that he could, when the time came, serve as a member of a well-regulated militia, using his own weapons.
At what point do we, as a society, reject the current distorted, anachronistic interpretation of the 2nd amendment? The sole purpose of the 2nd amendment was to provide state governments the means to field armed militia in the event the nascent US federal government wouldn't be able to field an army. Prior to 1789, when the Constitution was written, the US central government, under the Articles of Confederation, had clearly been unable to effectively do so.
It's not 1789 anymore, and the US federal government can obviously field a large and highly capable military. It's time to either a) appropriately interpret the 2nd amendment for the modern age, in the context of its original intent, or b) repeal the 2nd amendment.
At what point do we, as a society, reject the current distorted, anachronistic interpretation of the 2nd amendment? The sole purpose of the 2nd amendment was to provide state governments the means to field armed militia in the event the nascent US federal government wouldn't be able to field an army. Prior to 1789, when the Constitution was written, the US central government, under the Articles of Confederation, had clearly been unable to effectively do so.
It's not 1789 anymore, and the US federal government can obviously field a large and highly capable military. It's time to either a) appropriately interpret the 2nd amendment for the modern age, in the context of its original intent, or b) repeal the 2nd amendment.
40
Thank you. I have been screaming this into the wind forever. Article I Section 8 of the Constitution - the document the Bill of Rights amends - supports your reading.
My work lately has involved delving into history. It might surprise some gun enthusiasts to know that some states weaseled on their obligations to provide troops for the Revolution. I suggest the amendment's purposes included preventing the 'free rider' problem.
My work lately has involved delving into history. It might surprise some gun enthusiasts to know that some states weaseled on their obligations to provide troops for the Revolution. I suggest the amendment's purposes included preventing the 'free rider' problem.
3
Exactly.
I vote for option B.
I vote for option B.
2
The guy snapped alright, no dire warnings...other than gun usage as just another toy most of the time, a sense of power as well. Bottom line: too many weapons, readily available, and human folly as emotional rage explodes, with the background of chronic unrelieved stress. The only one's that benefit are the gun lobby and the N.R.A., conveniently quiet at times when terror strikes.
26
Quiet except when there are calls for stricter gun rules, improved background checks, and limits on the type of firearms one can purchase. That's when we hear from the NRA and gun lobby.
5
there is something horribly, horribly wrong with so many people in this country. that is sad. what makes it worse is that it seems like all of these people want to act out - and do - with firearms - against the rest of us. as the days go on, i don't see any end to this violence. we are not safe - any of us, from ourselves. if not guns, then knives, cars, home made devices to hurt and kill. and the cause of this - nobody seems to know. that is what is really scary.
7
This wouldn't have happened if every single person in Michigan was armed with paramilitary assault weapons. More guns are needed by the sheep of the coming police state! 2nd Amendment militia? Ha! The widespread moron access to semi-auto weapons is what causes police departments to deploy SWAT all the time, for missing student loan payments, etc (and you're known to have a gun).
USA! NRA! USA! NDAA 2012, where warrantless arrest and no right to trial "for duration of hostilities" has already been signed into law.
USA! NRA! USA! NDAA 2012, where warrantless arrest and no right to trial "for duration of hostilities" has already been signed into law.
6
Motive? Simple: Miseralble loser + gun = Big Tough Hero.
19
Did you even read the same news report as the rest of us? What prior to his deranged behavior indicate he was a miserable loser, his jobs or family? The thing so troubling about this type of crime is that other than his tendency to shoot out his back door (which being in a rural area in America is far more common than you might think) this guy comes off as being entirely unremarkable. No history of criminal behavior, none so far as we know of mental health problems or breakdowns. Its that he doesn't have a motive we can readily understand that makes him and his crime so scary. Your assessment on the other hand is simple minded and utterly lacking in any depth, perhaps you might rethink your equation.
4
If some of the random victims were black this would be an entirely different story.
1
Why? How would the story be different based on the race of the victims? Considering the racial makeup of the area it could have easily been a multi racial list of victims, If they were all one gender then would you draw another erroneous conclusion? Please elucidate your reasons for such a nonsensical uniformed comment.
4
Same if the shooter were black. And there would be a lot of members of the NYT commentariat rummaging for reasons to defend or justify him.
Good job dragging race into everything, though. You get your PC Medal for the day.
Good job dragging race into everything, though. You get your PC Medal for the day.
1
Proposed gun control measures won’t work for three reasons: (1) More than 60 percent of gun deaths are suicides. A person can commit suicide more easily with a small handgun than with an assault rifle and the number of rounds in the magazine doesn’t matter. About 50 percent of suicide are committed with firearms, but deprived of guns, many would turn to other methods. (2) Only about 0.002 percent of the more than 300 million guns owned by American are used in homicides, and many of these are stolen or purchased illegally. No gun law is going to stop felons from obtaining guns or get the “right” 0.002 percent of guns off the streets. (3) According to the 2014 FBI Uniform Crime Report, firearms were used in 8,124, or 67.9 percent, of the nation’s 11,961 murders during 2014. About 32 percent of murder victims were stabbed, beaten, kicked or stomped to death. But depriving homicidal people of guns wouldn’t reduce homicides by 67.9 percent because there would be an increase in the number of people stabbed, beaten, kicked or stomped to death. And if guns vanished, high-tech wizards would quickly produce new and perhaps more lethal gadgets to replace guns. Our only solution is to create a less homicidal and less suicidal society.
4
Gun control would not stop all homicides and suicides but the widespread access to firearms, including assault rifles, is what makes us, far and away, the leading country in the world for mass shootings. How far would Dalton have gotten if he had attempted random "stompings to death?" Sorry, there is a particular power that a gun gives to enable mass killings.
7
There is a lot of literature available on suicide. Please check your claim that people who do not have access to guns will simply find another way to kill themselves. I think people make this claim based on their own impressions -- and do not inquire whether it is actually true or not.
2
Thanks, Mr. Case, for telling us that the solution to the firearms free-for-all is "to create a less homicidal and less suicidal society."
We'll get right on it.
We'll get right on it.
3
Where was the "good guy with a gun" standing firm at the right place and at the right time to quell this crazy person's path of destruction? Where, NRA?
How often do we read a story which states, "Hero with gun stops what would have been potential mass killing by neutralizing alleged perp with multiple firearms."
NEVER.
How often do we read a story which states, "Hero with gun stops what would have been potential mass killing by neutralizing alleged perp with multiple firearms."
NEVER.
114
Amen
2
This guy was the good guy with a gun. Until Saturday anyway.
6
That's because the media doesn't report them. You have to be subscribed to pro-gun websites. Fact is, it happens every day, most of the time without a shot ever being fired.
1
Thank God we all have guns. They make the world a safer place to be.
6
Does the motive really matter in this and other mass shootings? What preventive measures can be taken? Gun restrictions are off the table. We are not prepared to fund effective treatment for unstable or needy people. Would we jail hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people in preventive detention, based on some kind of suspicions?
7
It's not the gun. Flo the Progressive lady told him to do it.
All sarcasm aside, look at the bigger picture. The United States has a huge population of unemployed and underemployed people. They are hounded and belittled constantly by debt collectors, like Chinese water torture. Politicians and 24 Hour News stations fuel their paranoia with Mexicans, Muslims, The Pope, Jews, Black people, drug dealers, rapists, and women. Depressed, with too much time on their hands, building resentment toward the rest of society, they eventually snap.
All sarcasm aside, look at the bigger picture. The United States has a huge population of unemployed and underemployed people. They are hounded and belittled constantly by debt collectors, like Chinese water torture. Politicians and 24 Hour News stations fuel their paranoia with Mexicans, Muslims, The Pope, Jews, Black people, drug dealers, rapists, and women. Depressed, with too much time on their hands, building resentment toward the rest of society, they eventually snap.
43
And you could add, possible ongoing influence of violent media (movies, games, books, music, etc) and maybe high on something create a toxic frame of mind.
1
Motive? Maybe he just wanted his 15 minutes of fame?
3
Perhaps the lead-laden waters of Detroit extend to Kalamazoo, too.
This atrocity is simply another evidence of America's tremendous mental health problem -- to wit, the upsurge of suicides amongst men of this maniac's demographic. How many deaths will it take before mental health reform is finally implemented? And no, Mr Trump, this has nothing to do with Mexicans nor Syrians-- the beast is within!
This atrocity is simply another evidence of America's tremendous mental health problem -- to wit, the upsurge of suicides amongst men of this maniac's demographic. How many deaths will it take before mental health reform is finally implemented? And no, Mr Trump, this has nothing to do with Mexicans nor Syrians-- the beast is within!
17
Another 'law abiding gun owner'. We can never have enough of them!
29
Every law-abiding gun owner is law-abiding.....until he's not...
8
The only way to change our gun violence culture and easy access to guns in this country is to Vote OUT the Reps in Congress who take the blood money from the NRA. They won't change any laws. They are bought and paid for.
88
It's not just those who take NRA money. It's also members from rural states, like Vermont and my own state of Maine, who tiptoe around the issue of guns by selective voting on gun bills, which may get them a poor NRA rating, but doesn't put them in its cross-hairs in the next election. For a "Progressive," Bernie Sanders has a shameful record on gun control, dating back to the 1980's. Gun violence is not even mentioned on his campaign website as an issue, even though over 33,000 Americans die by guns each year and over 70,000 are injured, a disproportionate number being poor and minorities. "Mother Jones" (hardly an "establishment" tool) has documented the social and economic costs this wreaks on our country. Sanders constantly extols the governmental benefits virtues of many European countries, Canada and Japan, which I agree with, but makes no mention of their strict gun laws and low rates of violence. It's also our fault, because most gun laws are promulgated on the state level and how many of us follow bills in our legislatures or even bother to vote in state elections?
13
Whoa....that was quick in coming. If this continues it might almost feels like Ms Clinton's people set this up so they can show how tough she is on "guns" while Bernie is not.
Stop monopolizing and politicizing a case on behalf of your lady politician. That is a terrible exploitation of a tragedy. I like Ms Clinton and I am sure she'd approve of my message.
Stop monopolizing and politicizing a case on behalf of your lady politician. That is a terrible exploitation of a tragedy. I like Ms Clinton and I am sure she'd approve of my message.
Not just in Congress. Do not forget State legislators and state-wide offices.
2
Just another ordinary mass shooting in the U.S. Only 6 people this time so I guess it does not merit the full CNN, MSNBC, FOX 24/7 coverage the last time we had a mass shooting. Not a word from any of the presidential candidates or the White House or any other politician that owes his/her career to the NRA. We live in a very sick and dangerous society.
46
Despite what the gun lobby says, not all shooters are mentally ill, unless by definition someone is mentally ill once they shoot. The reality is that easy access to weapons allows anyone that is angry can vent with a gun. This is an example. Common sense weapons laws are needed. The public needs to listen to sociologists. psychiatrists, and other professionals who study this matter for a living, not some K street lobbyist. Using a knife or fork would not be as easy. The deeper issue is that cultural fear leads people not to trust and this is a problem that researchers say may not resolved for a couple centuries. Let's face it, many of us have deep rooted biases that are at the heart of much of this.
24
Snore...more people are killed in America with knives and other hand weapons then with guns.
It is the mentally ill that need to be regulated. We need to return to massive State Hospitalization for them.
It is the mentally ill that need to be regulated. We need to return to massive State Hospitalization for them.
“He periodically shot his gun out the back door,” Ms. Pardo (his neighbor) said. “He would shoot randomly into the air.”
Yet, he had no criminal record.
Why didn't any of his neighbors CALL THE POLICE when he would shoot his gun out his back door or into the air? Maybe his guns would have been repossessed before he could have murdered these innocent people.
If you see something, say something.
Yet, he had no criminal record.
Why didn't any of his neighbors CALL THE POLICE when he would shoot his gun out his back door or into the air? Maybe his guns would have been repossessed before he could have murdered these innocent people.
If you see something, say something.
98
It's more than probable that they did. Just like I did when my "neighbors" shot at me repeatedly. I was told over and over again that "You need to find the bullets yourself. They can do what they want on their own property."
Domestic terrorism is all around us. It's been coddled and nurtured by the Republican party, and it's now the default American way.
Domestic terrorism is all around us. It's been coddled and nurtured by the Republican party, and it's now the default American way.
16
Because it's not illegal to shoot into the air, is it?
I'd like to think people would see this as a sign of something
but plenty of others wouldn't think anything of it, the same way
people go to target practice. I think it's not illegal to shoot your gun off..
kind of crazy, I think.
I'd like to think people would see this as a sign of something
but plenty of others wouldn't think anything of it, the same way
people go to target practice. I think it's not illegal to shoot your gun off..
kind of crazy, I think.
6
It is illegal inside most jurisdictions. A bullet fired straight up has a terminal velocity of 204 mph. that's fast enough to penetrate human skin. Fired al almost any other any the bullet comes down with ballistic velocity and can be lethal.
4
I don't claim authoritative insight here, but I'd make a suggestion as to what happened. Apparently Dalton had a stable, steady job until 2011, when his employer, Progressive Insurance (the home of appealing, friendly Flo) threw him out like an old rag, as many employers did to so many 40-and-older full-timers. (Do not whisper: Obamacare.) How has he made a living for the past 5 years, then?
I venture that Dalton, with a family to support, was apparently thrown into the so-called 'gig economy', more accurately 'hand to mouth economy' or 'day to day economy' or 'hanging on by fingernails economy'. Those of us who have been, or are, in that economy know what it's like. It certainly doesn't provide an excuse for a rampage - but it does suggest a reason.
Aside from that, one suddenly is reminded of the value of NYC's medallion cab system over catching a ride with anyone who needs to make a quick buck. Uber is glorified hitchhiking.
I venture that Dalton, with a family to support, was apparently thrown into the so-called 'gig economy', more accurately 'hand to mouth economy' or 'day to day economy' or 'hanging on by fingernails economy'. Those of us who have been, or are, in that economy know what it's like. It certainly doesn't provide an excuse for a rampage - but it does suggest a reason.
Aside from that, one suddenly is reminded of the value of NYC's medallion cab system over catching a ride with anyone who needs to make a quick buck. Uber is glorified hitchhiking.
82
ACW, thank you for your comment. Too many people I know have been living through this situation. No matter what they do things do not work out for them. They are told it's their fault when it's not. And help, if it comes, is too little too late. On a personal level, it's been happening to me and I've worked in a STEM field my entire work life. I'm hoping to drop dead before I need medical care, have no place to live because I can't afford one, or lose my current job and can't find a new one because, while I'm too young to retire, I'm considered too old to be of any use in the workforce. The stress is killing me. I just wish it would do so quicker.
33
Or just maybe you have cause and effect reversed? Perhaps the 2011 firing reflected erratic behavior associated with encroaching mental illness? So, rather than assuming Obamacare caused the rampage -- of course, it's Obama's fault -- perhaps a mentally ill person with easy access to a gun?
10
MPS, though the NYT denies it, the insurance requirements of Obamacare were an incentive for employers to cut employees to part-time or fire them outright.
BTW I voted for Obama twice, and in more than 40 years as a voter, I think I've voted perhaps twice for a Republican, and never for an office higher than county freeholder. I confess I am rethinking the wisdom of that.
Apparently you have never been up against the stress of the hand-to-mouth economy. When you are, you perhaps will understand what it does to even the most stable individuals.
BTW I voted for Obama twice, and in more than 40 years as a voter, I think I've voted perhaps twice for a Republican, and never for an office higher than county freeholder. I confess I am rethinking the wisdom of that.
Apparently you have never been up against the stress of the hand-to-mouth economy. When you are, you perhaps will understand what it does to even the most stable individuals.
2
This is happening too often. It may be pointing to something that has gone very wrong in our country that is being manifested by a few who are truly hurting or feel unable to express themselves. We've seen friends, family, acquaintances lose jobs, go bankrupt, lose their homes, etc., because of circumstances beyond their control. And there is no social safety net to help out. I'm not justifying what he did. I am saying that there is a lot more despair in America than is being recognized and this is one way of expressing it. Yes, killing others because one no longer cares about oneself or anyone else.
America is not offering a decent, stable life to its citizens the way it once did. Businesses are free to fire good employees at will for the slightest reason. More and more we see luxury this and that for the rich but nothing for the middle and working classes. The real surprise is that more people aren't becoming unhinged and doing things like this. And again, I don't condone his actions. I'm just saying that if there's no motive it could be one that this country doesn't want to see: despair, anger, etc.
America is not offering a decent, stable life to its citizens the way it once did. Businesses are free to fire good employees at will for the slightest reason. More and more we see luxury this and that for the rich but nothing for the middle and working classes. The real surprise is that more people aren't becoming unhinged and doing things like this. And again, I don't condone his actions. I'm just saying that if there's no motive it could be one that this country doesn't want to see: despair, anger, etc.
44
As a Michigan resident, I find this latest round of bloodshed especially troubling. Although I am for stricter gun control, in this case I do not believe it would have made a difference. What troubles me more, is that our eroding middle class lifestyle and lack of financial opportunity is pushing more people over the edge to break down and act out in violence. I feel sad and helpless and I do not have a ready solution. My thoughts go out to the innocent victims in this small college town. I am saddened that they will not be the last victims as our notions of safety and security continue to erode.
87
Who among the current presidential candidates is talking abut the dwindling middle class and the dog-eat-dog world that now exists for many Americans ? Bernie Sanders.
5
You don't think shooting out his back door should have led to his gun being taken away? It worries me that this would be regarded as an acceptable, understandable or normal reaction to relative hardship.
It is also another worrying New York Times pick - who decides a NYT pick? What is the criteria?
It is also another worrying New York Times pick - who decides a NYT pick? What is the criteria?
3
Your votes matter more than thoughts. If we are in an era of eroding lifestyle and people are being pushed to the edge of violence, the more reasonable, tangible measure would be to limit access to firearms, through legislation. Guns won't change the economy or create jobs any more than milk, cookies and kittens, but the last ones aren't designed for the sole purpose of effectively and efficiently killing poeple from a safe distance.
4
Let's begin by providing gun training, beginning at age 4. Shooting proficiency will be a prerequisite for grade school graduation. Children will begin carrying their own guns as soon as their have passed a minimal proficiency test. Every American will regularly carry on their daily affairs armed. When problems arise, we will simply shoot it out in the streets.
Think of the money which can be saved. This will eliminate the need for police at multiple levels. It will assist in closing budget gaps across the nation. It will promote job growth. Think of the extra medical personnel who will be required to mop up the damage, not to mention the job growth associated with th manufacture of ever more firearms, bullet proof vests, cars with bullet proof windshields. It will be the salvation of the United States.
Think of the money which can be saved. This will eliminate the need for police at multiple levels. It will assist in closing budget gaps across the nation. It will promote job growth. Think of the extra medical personnel who will be required to mop up the damage, not to mention the job growth associated with th manufacture of ever more firearms, bullet proof vests, cars with bullet proof windshields. It will be the salvation of the United States.
15
Hey, sometimes a white man just needs to take his second amendment rights out and brush the dust off, shine the wheels, take it out for a spin. You know, if you don't use it, you lose it!
24
What is wrong with us? Why can’t we see what we are doing? Admit it people! The first thing you wanted to know was whether the gunman was White or Black, Christian or Muslim, Republican or Democrat. Admit it! We are buying, selling and trading in human misery.
A man murdered six people and we will remember his name, not the dead. The killer didn’t know their names, why should we? We will remember the face of the man who goes on TV to read the American mantra “our hearts and prayers are with the families” – not the faces of the dead. Politicians will get free advertising on TV – promoting their position on this murder. Do we realize that we actually think this is “leadership.”
Gun manufacturers won’t send a penny to help bury the dead, but they will comfort their customers by announcing another few million sent to political campaigns to protect the second amendment right to own a gun. They will tell their customers to be brave, have courage, stand your ground, don’t wimp out and surrender your gun. Gun owners will buy another gun, but they won’t help dig a grave or attend a funeral or send a lousy penny to help finish raising the children of the dead.
These people are still in the morgue and we have already forgotten them. We are talking about our rights, our money, our feelings and our opinions. We actually believe this is okay. We make me sick.
146
Actually, the first thing I did was assume that he was white yet hope that he wasn't Black, or Muslim or Hispanic. If he's white, we will forget about it by Tuesday, and it will happen again in a different town next month. If he's anything else, it becomes part of a larger narrative that's unnecessary and embarrassing for all in involved. When is an act of violence such as this considered terrorism, and when is it just a shooting spree? Any guesses?
5
Thank you for your powerful statement. I share your rage.
1
Regulate bullets and price them out of existence. If you need a gun to protect yourself, how many bullets do you need? If you are trained with how to use a gun properly I would say 10 bullets for you. At a thousand dollars per bullet, I would say spending $10,000 to protect and possibly save your life is worth it. Better practice because every bullet counts. For those of you who are freaking out at this suggestion, no worries there will be a big discount for practice range bullets. Just can't leave the range with them.
31
Federal courts would rule any attempt to make ammunition unaffordable an unconstitutional infringement on the right to bear arms. Besides, many target shooters who fire thousands of rounds per year and hobbyists manufacture their own. The required machine took kits cost around $400.
Then rewrite the constitution to protect innocent people from being endlessly slaughtered.
2
William The target range can provide the bullets, only for use of target practice at a low cost.
1
He was well-mannered. Except for when “He periodically shot his gun out the back door," This is not normal, even in Kalamazoo.
80
It was Uber. The balloons. The movie. The fast food restaurants. Wake up. It's the guns. The guns.
44
This 'nice' guy exhibited dangerous behaviors yet no one bothered to report his actions to the police. Randomly shooting out his back door and no one reports him? And the Uber passenger who was spooked by Dalton's wild erratic driving should have called 911 the minute he left the vehicle. Over and over again after these murderous episodes the perpetrator has left a trail of actions of a disturbed and potentially dangerous individual, without anyone using their heads to alert the police.
8
The guy who got out of his car and ran tried to call Uber, according to what he told police.
8
According to the Uber passenger who was in the car he did call 911 and he "tried" to call Uber.
After the killings, the Uber driver actually picked up another fare.
After the killings, the Uber driver actually picked up another fare.
6
Think of the millions of guns out there. Consider how many people have anger issues and will use violence.
27
We have no information about this man's background. We do not know how he obtained his semi-automatic weapon. We do not know whether there were any warning signs for his family or friends.
We do know that the line between the "normal" and the mentally ill is not clear. We do know that there is a line between those who may be dangerous as a result of their particular problem and those who are not. We do know we have no effective system to prevent dangerously mentally ill people from obtaining guns.
We also know what happens when you have such a system, and what will continue to happen as long as we do not consider the deaths and injuries as our own.
We do know that the line between the "normal" and the mentally ill is not clear. We do know that there is a line between those who may be dangerous as a result of their particular problem and those who are not. We do know we have no effective system to prevent dangerously mentally ill people from obtaining guns.
We also know what happens when you have such a system, and what will continue to happen as long as we do not consider the deaths and injuries as our own.
5
Virtually all guns are semi-automatic. Single-shot guns are difficult to obtain.
Revolvers are not semi automatics
1
Mr. LaPierre and Mr. Arulanandam,
Yeah, this man could have gone to different places and stabbed and Killed so many people at random with a knife/fork whatever other implement you all throw out in your attempts at false equivalence. Nice!
Yeah, this man could have gone to different places and stabbed and Killed so many people at random with a knife/fork whatever other implement you all throw out in your attempts at false equivalence. Nice!
16
Arulanandam is a Sri Lankan American. These are the people who have been victims or victimizers in a civil war in Sri Lanka for many decades that killed many people, injured many and displaced millions, including sending many victims to places like the US, Canada or Australia as "refugees". They are mentally affected, and violence becomes normal, part of life and guns become important source of perceived comfort or protection for some. Next person to become a gun seller might be a Syrian, Palestinian, Iraqi, Afghani, Pakistani or Israeli...due to chronic violence in their countries or communities.
All due to cons and neocons and their foreign policies.
Where does Ms Clinton stand on this? She wants to control gun sales in the US, but does not mind the export of it?
All due to cons and neocons and their foreign policies.
Where does Ms Clinton stand on this? She wants to control gun sales in the US, but does not mind the export of it?
1
nut job, angry, shoots gun out back door occasionally. do you really think he needed a motive?
neighbors say he was well mannered.
clueless society.
neighbors say he was well mannered.
clueless society.
55
Guns attract more guns! It's going to get much worse, and only then maybe something will be done about the problem. In the meantime, many more shooters and victims on the horizon.
35
The gun was made to do this.
The US is utterly blind to the linkage of guns to mental illness. It is not healthy to covet devices made to kill people at the twitch of a finger.
The US is utterly blind to the linkage of guns to mental illness. It is not healthy to covet devices made to kill people at the twitch of a finger.
137
Steve I liked your use of the word "twitch". It should remind people that when the Founders wrote the 2nd Amendment it took a LOT more than a "twitch" to fire a gun.
2
We let our government take away our freedoms and rights to "protect us from terrorism" and ignore the fact that most random shootings are by our over-armed neighbors. Now the NRA and right wing TV and radio talking heads will rant about Obama wanting to take away our guns and gun sales will spike ... again.
36
I thought that I read somewhere that Uber did not allow weapons in their vehicles. As a holder of a valid CPL I would never use a company that restricted my legal right to carry a weapon to defend myself. Obviously Uber needs to do a better job of vetting their drivers.
2
CPL: "Cowardly Person License"
12
Once again, Wayne LaPierre's empty trope that the "only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" proves only so true as when the police are able to find and/or shoot the bad guy. Police unions make a lot of noise about some issues, but not enough on this.
Not every delusional citizen should own a gun. We play that right fast and loose, and the results are a nation awash in gun violence.
Not every delusional citizen should own a gun. We play that right fast and loose, and the results are a nation awash in gun violence.
32
Lot's of discussion here about Uber background checks. Nothing about how he got his gun. We just take for granted that everyone is entitled to wield weapons of mass destruction. Way to go NRA.
129
You do actually know that a gun is not a weapon of mass destruction don't you?
3
Then what is it - a toy? A fetish item? A mantel decoration? Guns exist for one reason: to kill.
24
Sure. I see your point. Only 1,766 U.S. gun deaths so far this year. About 13,286 in 2015.
7
All the letters in the world will not make a difference. When you read the posts to the NYT, they are overwhelmingly in favor of stricter gun control. You expect this given the NYT readership. Then, if you look at the same article on the Wall St. Journal website, you find almost all of the posts complaining that now all the "liberals" will bay at the moon for gun controls which would not have made any difference, because Mr. Dalton would have passed all background checks, and his gun was in all likelihood purchased legally. We have to accept that this country is split pretty evenly on the issue. The only solution is the Supreme Court: if the balance of opinion shifts sufficiently that the SC re-interprets the second amendment, or less likely, that a sufficient majority of the population supports an amendment to the Constitution. Short of those options, all parties are simply venting.
86
You write that Americans are split about 50/50 for gun control. The numbers are a little better than that, but more importantly, 80 percent of Americans favor more research. It wouldn't seem to me that we need more, but sure, why not, let's get real numbers and then discuss.
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-poll-majority-of-americans-support-next...
http://www.businessinsider.com/r-poll-majority-of-americans-support-next...
13
US gunners are anything but a well regulated militia. They are a clear and present danger to the liberty of a free state.
159
That's what the British said before we won our freedom from them through the use of the very weapons which you want to regulate.
The incident is truly tragic. Once again the press will chase for motive, never fully realizing there is no explanation for 'evil' that will ever satisfy a secular society. The gun interests, pro and con, will be out in force with there 'if only' explanations.
3
Oh look, a white male thug who terrorizes a community and kills people. Where is the outrage? If he'd been black or muslim, everyone would be outraged. And his neighbors thought he was OK altho he often fired his gun randomly? Sure, great neighbors.
Someone should have called the police long ago on him.
All those white angry thug terrorists. And we all wonder why votes for Trump or Cruz? There's one right there. He should be executed. Don't tell me we don't need the death penalty for people like him.
Someone should have called the police long ago on him.
All those white angry thug terrorists. And we all wonder why votes for Trump or Cruz? There's one right there. He should be executed. Don't tell me we don't need the death penalty for people like him.
23
"Someone should have called the police long ago on him."
If the police then went to his house, he would be wondering who ratted him out. Then start shooting his neighbors. It's not that easy.
If the police then went to his house, he would be wondering who ratted him out. Then start shooting his neighbors. It's not that easy.
2
He's a thug, yes. A terrorist? Only if he had a broader, political or religious agenda. No sign of that so far.
Until this tragic outburst of violence there was no personal history that has been reported that indicates he was "a white male thug" and you don't advance the justifiable argument that black lives matter or against the fascists like fear mongering of demagogues like Cruz and Trump by using the same rhetoric as those we all rightly condemn.
1
Oh my God..... time to buy another gun to feel more secure and protected. Where was the NRA when we need them to protect us from people with guns. If you live by the gun--- you die by the gun
15
Motive? Because he can.
Because any malcontent who decides he's not living the dream can easily inflict damage on every smiling face he happens upon.
Cue the usual diatribe: Good guy with a gun, Mental health, blah blah blah.
If he had to get out of his car to physical confront someone instead of cowardly tugging on a trigger from his front seat, he would went home to Netflix and 6 others people would be alive.
Back to original programming...
Because any malcontent who decides he's not living the dream can easily inflict damage on every smiling face he happens upon.
Cue the usual diatribe: Good guy with a gun, Mental health, blah blah blah.
If he had to get out of his car to physical confront someone instead of cowardly tugging on a trigger from his front seat, he would went home to Netflix and 6 others people would be alive.
Back to original programming...
25
This is another act of random violence that in no way can the NRA convince me that if the passengers had guns that this could have been avoided. It's time for some realistic gun control and for that reason alone I will never vote for a Republican.
141
Neighbors described him as "well mannered." I guess in our society that includes going out and randomly shooting a gun in the air. Strange world out there in angry America where having a gun seems normal.
181
Without a gun, he wouldn't have been able to do what he did.
176
We just don't learn! The issue is NOT "what was the motive".
There are a gazillion motives for destructive behavior. They range from mental illness to downright evil. They are fueled by impulsivity or alcohol or drugs.
Not much of that can effectively be changed by policy. These are issues as old as humanity and while we can strive to curb deviant behavior, offer mental health support, it is an unmoving, unyielding aspect of the human experience that some of us are going to sometimes be driven to commit violence.
What we don't have to do is facilitate such violence through the easy access to guns. Guns are the cowards answer to trouble.
A gun is a solution achieved with the pull of a trigger and the smallness of the movement is infinitely way more appealing than other modes of murder. They are easy, somewhat clean as these things go, at least in the initial movement of pulling a trigger.
It is also a reason why guns are overwhelmingly used in suicides and domestic disputes. They are an instrument for human destruction and should be heavily regulated, monitored and restricted.
That we don't regulate, monitor or restrict guns speaks to the broken system of government that has empowered special interest lobbies to peddle a product that kills for a living. We regulate and insure drivers, drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. We take our shoes off at the airport and allow frisky TSA officers to feel us up. But guns? Sacred cow.
Enough already!
There are a gazillion motives for destructive behavior. They range from mental illness to downright evil. They are fueled by impulsivity or alcohol or drugs.
Not much of that can effectively be changed by policy. These are issues as old as humanity and while we can strive to curb deviant behavior, offer mental health support, it is an unmoving, unyielding aspect of the human experience that some of us are going to sometimes be driven to commit violence.
What we don't have to do is facilitate such violence through the easy access to guns. Guns are the cowards answer to trouble.
A gun is a solution achieved with the pull of a trigger and the smallness of the movement is infinitely way more appealing than other modes of murder. They are easy, somewhat clean as these things go, at least in the initial movement of pulling a trigger.
It is also a reason why guns are overwhelmingly used in suicides and domestic disputes. They are an instrument for human destruction and should be heavily regulated, monitored and restricted.
That we don't regulate, monitor or restrict guns speaks to the broken system of government that has empowered special interest lobbies to peddle a product that kills for a living. We regulate and insure drivers, drugs, alcohol and cigarettes. We take our shoes off at the airport and allow frisky TSA officers to feel us up. But guns? Sacred cow.
Enough already!
418
Have the government run a monitoring system? Like how 21 million got their IDs stolen in the OPM hack? That is absurd on its face, under the current administration.
And ridden a bus lately? Notice all the drunks, pan-handlers, and dopers? When standards are low -- anything can happen.
Police cannot do this alone. Everytime a gun goes off illegally by moi -- I call. That's my job.
And ridden a bus lately? Notice all the drunks, pan-handlers, and dopers? When standards are low -- anything can happen.
Police cannot do this alone. Everytime a gun goes off illegally by moi -- I call. That's my job.
I'm an NRA member, but I'm an odd one because I have no problem with a certain level of gun regulation, especially the rather strict kind which we have here in New York State. But, because I'm immensely smarter than you, I don't believe regulation will solve problems like the one we're reading about in this article. We supposedly regulate drivers, but they still manager to kill more people than guns do. We sort of regulate tobacco, but it still ranks at the top of the list of things which kill people. The real problem can't be solved: We are a defective species which has no business being here. We don't know how to live in harmony with others of our species. Some of us can't even navigate our own towns without an electronic toy. While watching documentaries about other animals, I've accepted it as normal that some animals will let defective offspring die. We are that defective offspring. Every one of us.
3
Ancient We regulate drivers and test their proficiency for driving a car. The car is our main mode of transportation. Guns are meant to do nothing other than kill. Target practice is done to become more proficient at killing. There should be regulations regarding who can own a gun.
7
Another ticking time-bomb loner with a gun. "he seemed like a nice man, who like to shoot his gun randomly from his porch"
88
If my neighbor had a habit of shooting a gun out of his back door seemingly at random, I would describe him as anything but "quiet and polite". The fact that he was given to shooting things at random and his neighbors apparently shrugged and said, "that's just Jason being Jason" and continued on with their day is perhaps the biggest indictment of the absolute indifference many of our communities have to the very real killing power of guns I've ever heard.
257
I live in the Bay Area suburbs, in a middle-class neighborhood of owner-occupied single-family homes. If one of my neighbors randomly fired his gun from his porch, front or back, people in the neighborhood would be upset, and the police would be called - by me, and I'm certain, by others (many of my neighbors have school-age children at home). It all depends on the neighborhood. Some neighborhoods, and some sub-cultures in the U.S., are more accepting of gun use than others.
2
From a Bronx perspective, you're quite right, of course. People shouldn't be shooting out of apartment windows. Perhaps you missed the part about "rural" in the article. Millions of Americans live in surroundings where it is perfectly safe, and indeed quite common, to be able to shoot in one's own backyard. My first rule of buying real estate (we've owned a number of homes): If I wind up and throw a Frisbee as far as I can, and it lands in someone else's yard, then the house lot isn't large enough. And yes, I do shoot regularly in my backyard. When I'm not shooting in a neighbor's, that is. We've knocked over a lot of tin cans over the years, but haven't broken a window yet, or killed anyone either. Because we're not criminals.
Wow, so children who accidentally shoot themselves and others with a gun that has not been properly stored are "criminals?"
If only gun deaths were only perpetrated by "criminals."
If only gun deaths were only perpetrated by "criminals."
1
1, 2, 3: "It's not guns that kill people, it's people who kill people."
And the maddness continues.
And the maddness continues.
16
Vigils may ease the pain, but God helps those who help themselves. God isn't stopping the insanity. We have to.
23
This is what has always worried me about the UBER business model. How do they effectively screen their drivers?
9
If this act of terrorism had been committed by a Muslim driver, it would have been at the top of the main page for days now, as opposed to buried under political news. We would have called it terrorism long ago, and politicians would be talking about how we should make sure all Muslims are registered with the FBI and why we should not help refugees trying to escape extremism in Syria. Alas, the shooter happens to be white, so we're scratching our heads trying to find some excuse for why he did what he did, so we can all feel sympathy for this terrorist.
205
Did the shooter have a political motive? Did he do it to make a political point, send a political message, reach a political objective? Did he have a broader goal than just discharge free-floating anger at who-knows what? Did he feel he was part of a broader political cause in which name he acted? If so, it was terrorism. If not, it wasn't.
This story illustrates the challenges of focusing on mental health as the solution to gun violence instead of on gun control. Dalton's prior actions, especially shooting his gun out his back door, indicate some real mental health problems, but what is the family, neighbors, and/or society to do about it? People may think he is strange, or they may convince themselves that he is a nice guy who does some strange things. But you can't lock someone up for being strange, nor should you be able to (unless their actions are dangerous and illegal - and in Michigan shooting a gun on your own property is legal in most cases).
But if shooting the gun and/or owning it outright were restricted, then it wouldn't matter if the man were strange or not. It wouldn't be a subjective call.
But if shooting the gun and/or owning it outright were restricted, then it wouldn't matter if the man were strange or not. It wouldn't be a subjective call.
35
Another insane person exercising his 2nd amendment rights to kill and main at will.
179
It will be interesting to see how the NRA and its hacks try to spin this tragedy and explain it away.
43
Always much hand wringing over motive and nothing about "means".
128
And this isn't terrorism?
62
Not unless the shooter had a political motive, no.
1
Why was he angry? No idea. Why did he shoot people? Because he had a gun.
334
Search all they want and they will find a gun. We always seem to miss the gun pointed right at us.
14
The result is a stronger statement than the motive: shooting has become comon in America. Rather than "shake the haters off', we shoot them.
Somewhere in our DNA our emotions and our brain are in disconnect. If they were together, we would adapt to insult and injury; we would take the proper avenue of action. In Flint, they can blame it on the water; Kalamazoo: not so much.
Somewhere in our DNA our emotions and our brain are in disconnect. If they were together, we would adapt to insult and injury; we would take the proper avenue of action. In Flint, they can blame it on the water; Kalamazoo: not so much.
8
The public needs to help the police keep the peace. If a neighbor shoots off a gun, out the door, like the alleged K-zoo perp -- call it in. That might have prevented Uber from hiring him.
26
This murderer was probably resentful over the bad evaluations he received...and in order to relieve his narcissistic injury, he had to make others feel his pain. We are living in an age of narcissism and self-entitlement, and lack of empathy is a major reason that so many people can commit depraved acts like these without a conscience to stop them. If they were to truly feel the effects of what they were about to do from a humane point of view, to feel empathy and remorse in advance of their actions, then empathy and and remorse neutralize their rage. Some people are thin-skinned and overreact to any perceived or real injury to their fragile selves. Unfortunately, their overreaction is often violent. And there have been many related to poor evaluations at work or being fired..."going postal," for example.
3
Perhaps Uber would not have hired him; but how would this have prevented the shootings?