I am struggling to understand why the author sought the experience of a venture capitalist on this issue. It seems blind to the burden high airfare places on large families, and those with incomes decidedly less than a venture capitalist.
1
This article does not even mention fuel hedging. Most airlines hedged fuel at higher prices in 2014-2015, which have damped profits, particularly at Southwest. Delta, United, and JetBlue have wisely stopped hedging, but they will not see savings until later in 2016.
1
And this is why this is why we drive anywhere that is less than 7 hours. Takes about the same time as flying , costs a fraction of the price, has actual space for your legs, and you can carry on as much as you want. If Amtrak was smart, it would slash prices to compete with airlines. Training is even better than cars, but also overly expensive.
2
The "big four" should be broken up into, say, the big eight. Mistakes can be corrected. The rules that govern our economy are man-made, not ordained by the universe.
5
The customers who getting screwed are the ones in coach who fly on vacation or emergencies. These same customers are not able to expense their flights to their employer, a client or write them off on their taxes. This is why they don't fly on business or first. There is something wrong when a 5 star hotel room costs less than a coach ticket. Airlines have also decided to change their mileage programs screwing the coach paying customers even more. Yet, flights are not more dependable, overhead space is smaller, getting through security is always a nightmare and the coach cabins are downright disgusting. Keep the micro bag of peanuts and half cup of juice. I like taking Amtrak or driving then dealing with the nonsense these airlines put paying customers through.
4
I do not work for the airlines nor invest in any. I fly perhaps 50,000 miles a year or less. I do not believe in conspiracy theories. In the past there was a running joke about the airlines being a surefire way to lose money for investors. Airline are high fixed costs, high labor, and variable demand entities, many of which fail or require subsidies. US airlines collectively have tried to disrupt and change. Fares overall are quite low due to competition with other airlines, not flying, telecommuting and more.
I wish they would charge more to allow more comfort short of first class, and perhaps price out some of the boorish travelers I must encounter, and their comfort dogs AKA pets, though I am sure that many are in the higher income brackets. How many of those who complain here willingly give back salary or charge less for their services rather than charge at the market? There is no conspiracy, just smarter efforts to test the limits of the market and price accordingly. Nobody forces anyone to fly. Please do the rest of us a favor and stay home next time. As to meals, I am glad to see them go a la carte. And if you really want to experience a sardine can experience, fly a bargain European airline. The legacy carriers are much more costly.
My ideal airline would charge for total person and baggage weight, and have Uber-like reviews to be posted of fellow passengers and crew so we could pick our seatmates and crew accordingly. It would also have more legroom for a price.
I wish they would charge more to allow more comfort short of first class, and perhaps price out some of the boorish travelers I must encounter, and their comfort dogs AKA pets, though I am sure that many are in the higher income brackets. How many of those who complain here willingly give back salary or charge less for their services rather than charge at the market? There is no conspiracy, just smarter efforts to test the limits of the market and price accordingly. Nobody forces anyone to fly. Please do the rest of us a favor and stay home next time. As to meals, I am glad to see them go a la carte. And if you really want to experience a sardine can experience, fly a bargain European airline. The legacy carriers are much more costly.
My ideal airline would charge for total person and baggage weight, and have Uber-like reviews to be posted of fellow passengers and crew so we could pick our seatmates and crew accordingly. It would also have more legroom for a price.
1
I have found that two simple items solve 90% of in-flight problems related to fellow passengers: high-quality noise-canceling headphones connected to the music or podcasts on my phone, and, for long flights, an eyeshade. What you neither see nor hear usually cannot bother you. (Of course, problems related to the obesity of a seatmate or, worst of all, offensive body odor remain unsolvable.)
3
The article points out that the era of airline regulation appeared to be [!] characterized by overly high fares. Therefore, airline regulation was thrown in the garbage can.
Thanks to government passivity, free-market ideology, and and negligence, airlines were allowed to merge and merge. We now confront oligopoly and, on many routes, monopoly. Government regulation has been replaced with a perverse form of self-"regulation".
Politicians doubtless like this: they can disavow responsibility for high fares and awful service. Thanks to deregulation, they're no longer "responsible."
Thanks to government passivity, free-market ideology, and and negligence, airlines were allowed to merge and merge. We now confront oligopoly and, on many routes, monopoly. Government regulation has been replaced with a perverse form of self-"regulation".
Politicians doubtless like this: they can disavow responsibility for high fares and awful service. Thanks to deregulation, they're no longer "responsible."
4
The government with the airlines have created an effective oligopoly that gives airlines significant pricing power even if they aren't directly colluding. This is a very asymmetric relationship where airlines can delay or change flights as much as they want but if I want to make a change 6 months in advance I get hit with a big fee.
In response I take advantage of the airlines at every turn, from generating and utilizing airlines miles to their maximum extent to taking advantage of their mistake fares.
In response I take advantage of the airlines at every turn, from generating and utilizing airlines miles to their maximum extent to taking advantage of their mistake fares.
4
Just booked flights to the caribbean. For all the years I've been this is the highest price I've ever paid! Why when gas prices are so low? The hotel were staying at is a top 10 and it was less than the flight! The airlines are so very greedy!
Also agree with Gail below. Every foreign carrier I've been on does have meals with real plates and real silverware with a staff thats happy with there! BTW this is in coach! US airlines need to take lessons from the foreign carriers!!! And the foreign planes are much cleaner!!!
Also agree with Gail below. Every foreign carrier I've been on does have meals with real plates and real silverware with a staff thats happy with there! BTW this is in coach! US airlines need to take lessons from the foreign carriers!!! And the foreign planes are much cleaner!!!
7
Passengers must be happy that they are getting at least peanuts. The airlines don't have to give anything to the passengers. What the passengers are going to do? Write to their congressman? LOL.
1
This is why we need high-speed rail (i.e. 125 mph or faster) in this country, especially between cities a few hundred miles apart where currently flying or driving is the only viable option. You can bet the airlines would be falling over themselves to provide cheap, high-quality service when Americans stop listening to oil industry-funded think tanks and learn what a great amenity high-speed rail is.
5
Take Amtrak. Unless you have to fly overseas, use the train.
2
Tickets are overpriced, but a significat part of price is driven by taxes and fees added to each ticket. Perhaps a compromise is in order?
Especially for all who lost their investments when some declared bankruptcy and stock value was eliminated.
We are quick to be charged extra when oil is high, with no reciprocal movement when prices go down.
Especially for all who lost their investments when some declared bankruptcy and stock value was eliminated.
We are quick to be charged extra when oil is high, with no reciprocal movement when prices go down.
4
Makes me think that US airlines are in collusion and basically have a monopoly.
10
You want to change the airlines' behavior? Don't fly.
5
And the alternative is taking a clipper ship to Southampton? Taking a week to get from LA to New York by train?
1
About 15 years ago, I had a kind of epiphany...long story.
Anyway, some of the the changes I made to my life included giving up meat, eliminating Teevee, and deciding I would not fly, ever again.
A day seldom goes by without my being made glad I made those those choices.
The chances of me getting in line at the airport, waiting for hours, partially disrobing, having some thug put his hands all over me, getting x-rayed, searched, questioned, having my luggage rifled, damaged or disappeared?
Zero...
You get what you tolerate, folks.
Enjoy your fascist utopia.
Anyway, some of the the changes I made to my life included giving up meat, eliminating Teevee, and deciding I would not fly, ever again.
A day seldom goes by without my being made glad I made those those choices.
The chances of me getting in line at the airport, waiting for hours, partially disrobing, having some thug put his hands all over me, getting x-rayed, searched, questioned, having my luggage rifled, damaged or disappeared?
Zero...
You get what you tolerate, folks.
Enjoy your fascist utopia.
2
Glad you are not around to fly with me, silly guy
2
How are these ideas supposed to help normal people?
3
No frills? I don't know how the frills could further diminish unless they start strapping people to the wings. Perhaps the airlines will share their profits with their passengers by giving us one more inch of legroom in coach.
13
The airlines have been taking a beating for years on high fuel prices so maybe they just would like to make some money for once.
3
Once again, Adam Smith's "invisible hand" of capitalism is at our throats -- permitted and abetted by our beloved legislators, who have handed the airlines monopoly power. As with so many other situations in the USA, the only remedy is competition -- which is supposed to be assured by law. Complain to your congressman, not he airlines -- although nowadays our elected representatives are beholden to big business.
5
Nice job by the government of the United States in eliminating competition.
7
Hit them in the pocketbook--or with it. I bought an Amtrak credit card and I take the train whenever possible, using my points for free trips, or I drive my very comfortable Prius. Haven't been on a plane since 2007.
8
The solutions are not feasible for people with very limited vacation time from work.
3
Given the collusion amounts US carriers, there should be an effort to allow foreign carriers to fly domestic routes. US carriers are abusing their domestic dominance and have created a comfortable little club for themselves. If I'm not mistaken this is antithetical to free market capitalism where there is supposed to be competition among businesses and the quality os regulated by that. That is certainly not happening here. Either that or we elect a democratic government (the Republicans would certainly NEVER do this) and start regulating the airlines again.
10
Do we even get peanuts? I think it is most definitely high fares and the short end of the stick! Funny how United now must offer free wine or beer (no hard booze) on International flights in tourist. What crummy food but the International carriers forced their hand on the wine/beer.
9
Last time I checked, flying is a private-sector privilege and not an inalienable right. Fares generated employ a small army of industry workers. Why shouldn't a summer round trip to Europe cost over $1000? I would certainly like to pay less but am happy I don't have to pay more for the convenience and safety provided.
3
Last time I checked, there is no natural law requiring a society to tolerate the monopolization of an entire industry.
5
Reading these comments, the total frustration, anger and mistrust of the greedy airline industry are evident. Only the rich get to travel in comfort in first class while the rest of us are crammed like chickens in a coop in coach. It's representative of how capitalism has skewed to the rich and eliminated a middle class. A few reap the profits while most of us suffer. Why won't any politician address this in regards to the airline industry? The employees are underpaid and overworked and the passengers treated like cattle, all while profits soar. The airlines should be considered like utilities, not private businesses that hoard and monopolize profit and eliminate the competition. They must be violating anti trust laws.
12
I don't recall much sympathy for the airlines when they were losing money and hemorrhaging cash. They need a few quarters or even years of nice profits to get back into shape.
If you don't like the prices, don't fly. Cars and trains are nice alternatives.
If you don't like the prices, don't fly. Cars and trains are nice alternatives.
6
Why do people think that if costs go down that they should be passed onto to the customers? It's called supply and demand. The prices are set by that. If flights are full, airlines can maintain their pricing, regardless of the underlying costs...
2
why do people think when costs go UP, that they should be passed onto the customers? Your statement belongs in the Museum of American Greed.
9
Dennis, you're right. But the idea of "demand" could make the situation a little more interesting. Imagine if people just paused their consumption of airline tickets. That's all it would take, I think, to start competitive pricing. Once suppliers see that they have to compete, they will. But if people keep buying at the same price, why would any supplier lower their price?
1
"Supply and demand"? I think a more apt term for it would be "monopoly".
3
The elimination of competition on routes seemed obvious to everyone but the Justice Department over the past few years. Monopoly is the American dream, right?
Okay, Obama Administration. The horse is gone. Now you can close the door.
Okay, Obama Administration. The horse is gone. Now you can close the door.
8
Dirty crowded planes staffed with crabby, exhausted, overworked and underpaid workers, no food, and the latest money saving move-- airlines are jobbing out major mechanical plane repairs to cheaper foreign countries. cheaper for sure,of course airlines are making record profits.
9
That's the American way anymore. It's called greed.
7
Jimmy Carter is the best former President we've ever had. However, I do blame him for airline deregulation. The numerous carriers couldn't compete on price, so they competed on service. What a novel idea that would be today.
Any American who has flown on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Emirates etc, marvels at what an incredible job they do with catering, service and professional flight crews. Then we have to come home and put up with three huge carriers that constantly screw us. Jesse James at least had a gun.
Any American who has flown on Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Emirates etc, marvels at what an incredible job they do with catering, service and professional flight crews. Then we have to come home and put up with three huge carriers that constantly screw us. Jesse James at least had a gun.
9
Hoover and Nixon were much better past presidents than Carter, though I suppose John Quincy Adams is the champ.
1
I forgot to mention in my post about taking the train to Spokane and back, three meals a day were included in the fare, and were served in the dining car; you just had to leave a tip. The steak dinner was especially good.
I'm retired, and can afford the time the trip took. The scenery, just outside my window, was great, too.
I'm retired, and can afford the time the trip took. The scenery, just outside my window, was great, too.
8
"At the same time, rank-and-file employees are getting bonuses, and new labor agreements show gains that were unimaginable just a few years ago."
Uh, any substantiation on that whopper?
In fact, airline employees are among the most miserable workers today (along w, coincidentally enough, auto workers, who both watch as their companies make huge profits, which aren't passed along) when they used to be among the happiest. And friendliest. One example of their mistreatment: the clock doesn't start ticking for flight attendants until the plane starts taxiing away from the gate. And starting wages for desk agents is $9 an hour.
It's the end of capitalism. Thank God.
Uh, any substantiation on that whopper?
In fact, airline employees are among the most miserable workers today (along w, coincidentally enough, auto workers, who both watch as their companies make huge profits, which aren't passed along) when they used to be among the happiest. And friendliest. One example of their mistreatment: the clock doesn't start ticking for flight attendants until the plane starts taxiing away from the gate. And starting wages for desk agents is $9 an hour.
It's the end of capitalism. Thank God.
8
Last August I took the train to Spokane and back. Never had to show my passport, take off my shoes, restrict liquids to under a tiny size. And I'm taking the train to Kansas City this coming summer!
7
You cannot tell me there is no collusion and price fixing when there is no attempt for any major airlines to compete on price. Especially now that oil prices have dropped by nearly 60%.
6
it's a cash cow... milk the compliant passengers for everything they've got, they know passengers won't do anything about it, like taking trains , buses or cars to their destination.. too much in a hurry to get to grandma's house or the sales meeting.
3
lou, and if indeed the passengers are "compliant" they alone are to blame. The airlines (or any other business) has no reason to change if the people keep coming back for more, moaning and groaning aside - they vote with their dollars.
1
Dear Lou and George – –
Many people in this country have a total of two weeks' vacation time in a year. How many days of that precious time can be devoted to driving or train travel when, say, grandma lives far away?
Wouldn't it be better to fix the monopolization that we have permitted to grow within an important industry? Even the god of free markets, Adam Smith himself, knew that monopolies pervert free markets to the disadvantage of consumers.
Many people in this country have a total of two weeks' vacation time in a year. How many days of that precious time can be devoted to driving or train travel when, say, grandma lives far away?
Wouldn't it be better to fix the monopolization that we have permitted to grow within an important industry? Even the god of free markets, Adam Smith himself, knew that monopolies pervert free markets to the disadvantage of consumers.
3
I recall that after 9/11, the airlines used it as an excuse to stop providing meals, claiming terrorists could access and poison them. Of course, they still provided meals in first class, along with cutlery, which apparently terrorists couldn't access.
6
"... they still provided meals in first class..." Because they pay for it.
3
they also used that(9/11) excuse to stop dealing with airplane/passenger security. They passed the buck to the government. Remember prior to 9/11 how the airlines refused to tighten security sighting passenger complaints about being held up at the security check points? Short term memory loss regarding that issue.
3
This may sound slightly twisted from someone who flies a lot. It feels kind if nice to know an industry that sustains extended periods of losses finally gets to make a buck.
3
Food service on US Airlines is so bad, it is better not to serve it at all, even if it is for free . We are better off bringing a small package of fresh fruits and veggies. at least it would be fresh tasty and healthier. F
9
I agree with you except when someone sitting near me opens up a hot stinky meal I have to smell for the rest of the flight. At least the bland, taste-free airline meals of old did not pack a powerful odor.
4
Has anyone heard anything from Obama and his stooges about this? Anyone? So silent they are, too busy watching money being funneled into their pockets by the airlines industry to notice.
4
If a Republican had been in the White House for the last seven years none of this would've happened. Republicans work to level the free-market playing field so that consumers are not unfairly disadvantaged.
I'd be more understanding if the fares reflected the costs of a flight, but when it might cost $180 to get to London, but $800 to get to San Francisco from Detroit, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude the fares are arbitrary and fantastical. The recent drop in oil prices have only highlighted the fiction in air fares.
Welcome to the free market where greed is king.
Welcome to the free market where greed is king.
14
Great headline.
6
I'd like to see mentioned something about the cumulative profits of the airline industry. Somewhere I read -and it may have bee 20 years ago - the the industry as a whole had a net loss from the time of its inception to the time the article was written.
What is that number today?
What is that number today?
3
And yet investors kept investing.
1
You pay extra to check in a bag. Extra for a better seat. Extra for faster check in. Be prepared to pay for the other extras. Like the pretzels and water. The overhead space for carry on luggage. The on board air you breath. The cabin service. The drop down air bags so when the plane is descending for a crash landing you will still be alive to experience your last ride. Forget about the frills. The airlines will get you from A to B and that's about it. All the other stuff is extra. And be prepared to rent seats at the gate. Oh, and a terminal entrance fee might also be a good idea.
7
they knew they had passengers over a barrel so they did it. Until a boycott happens and passengers decide enough is enough, they are stuck with it. Passengers are too much in a hurry so they will suck it up.
5
Whoops, you forgot to mention the fee for using the toilet.
5
A quick reading of comments says it all. The legacy (major) airlines in the US are no longer in the transportation business. Railroads made the same mistake decades ago. The difference is that the private passenger rail system systematically crippled its passenger service because it understood the profit was in freight. The development of air travel left a quasi public rail system as the last ground transport system standing apart from busses. Passenger air transport has become a financial toy that games the economic system. Reduce capacity, raise fares, reduce service, legroom, pitch (backroom), segment formerly free services into fee for service models. In short, turn passengers into cash registers. Where is the Justice Department that pliantly approved the mergers that now bleed the flying public? Where are we the passengers? Imagine a one day boycott of flying to make the point: We will not take it anymore. If that doesn't work, try two days. The financial impact on the legacy carriers would be big enough to bring them to the bargaining table with the public well before a three day flying holiday. Our legislators have been bought and paid for. Our regulatory agencies seem fearful of doing their jobs. The flying public has only itself as an advocate.
12
Totally agree. We have a failure of anti trust regulation.
6
Flying is one the few times I'm glad I'm no bigger than a large child. I feel so sorry for everyone. Someday, they'll probably set up an SRO section, with passengers traveling upright, suspended in harnesses from ceiling fixtures, and packed shoulder to shoulder.
You know, the invisible hand of the free market! Business never collude or buy off regulators. Can't mess with the perfect ecosystem.
You know, the invisible hand of the free market! Business never collude or buy off regulators. Can't mess with the perfect ecosystem.
7
This misplaced emphasis on fares and free snacks may interest the most frugal fliers. Let them endure Spirit if that's what they covet. Those of us who fly regularly for business (and pleasure) are far more interested in newer planes, non-stops, and reliability. If lower oil prices enable formerly bankrupt airlines to offer better, more dependable service, then let them invest the profits, as well as make shareholders happy. And you can keep the pretzels... I'll bring my energy bar and a smile.
1
Better, more dependable service? Where? When? As far as I can see, it's the Status Quo. More crowded than ever, with more delays, not less. Are you fly in the States or in Antarctica?
7
I said if...it remains to be seen. The investment in newer and better planes is already happening; I see it frequently now. And I fly in the States, two or three times a month, as well as internationally.
When customers look only at fares, they typically get what they pay for: the least comfortable seats on cut-rate airlines.
When customers look only at fares, they typically get what they pay for: the least comfortable seats on cut-rate airlines.
3
Yes. Just like Martin Shrekreli of Turing "Phamaceuticals" gained monopoly power over a unique and irreplaceable life-saving drug and increased the price a thousandfold over night only because of his deep commitment to investing heavily in new drug developments or the good of humanity. Corporations are people, and people just want to help other people, right?
2
A clear oligopoly! Foreign carriers should be allowed domestic routes to introduce some competition - in both price & service.
4
Better still, the big four should be broken up into the big eight. Mistakes can be corrected. The laws that govern our economy are man-made, not God-given.
1
yep, as said before, it's a monopoly situation, this is how it works, if you want to change the system so such monopolies don't exist or are more regulated than do that and stop complaining when you see the results/symptoms of a corrupt system. We are in the midst of a soft fascism in this country, huge wealth corrupting/running government, most of the population gets dregs - the super bowl on TV, giant aircraft carriers, etc.
3
you mean it's a Cartel. A monopoly means one company controls all or most of an industry. It's similar to the milk cartel some years back in New York. There were a dozen or so who controlled the industry- the farmers got screwed along with the consumers. What haven't we learned? More support for those who believe the politicians on all levels are corrupt.
2
Not only do they not offer their customer any perks, neither do their employees share in the benefits of this windfall. Only the select few at the top hoard the money. It's the pitiful example of lack of competition, and how the customer gets shafted. Higher prices, less service, crowded planes.
I flew from Barcelona to Paris this weekend, for less than 100$, on short notice.
We need our advocates in Washington to act on the people's behalf. Some things need to be socialized. Another reason I'm voting Bernie Sanders!
I flew from Barcelona to Paris this weekend, for less than 100$, on short notice.
We need our advocates in Washington to act on the people's behalf. Some things need to be socialized. Another reason I'm voting Bernie Sanders!
4
It's easy to forget, but before deregulation, airlines were required by the government to charge the same price on the same routes - thus, the carriers competed on service as that was the only way to differentiate themselves. Further, the airlines were not allowed to charge air fares that were below the actual cost of transport, so no money losing $99 coast to coast fare that is subsidized by other passengers paying far higher fares for the same class of accommodation as is the case now. Today they compete on price alone in most cases, especially for the "leisure traveller" (i.e. coach) because that's what the consumer looks at above all else. You see the result.
3
Greed! It is the main ingredient of the New World Order we hear so much about. Get used to it!
4
They should use the airlines as an example when defining greed in dictionaries. Classic. It also reminds me back some 8 years or so ago, when makers of consumer goods such as cereals, ice cream, and other packaged grocery items started to reduce to the size/weight of their containers, claiming they need to do so because of the extremely high price of fuel. Well, has anyone seen the package sizes return to their previous usual level? I haven't. What was once a true half-gallon of ice cream for the price of $4 a half-gallon, went to 1.75 quarts, for the same price, then to 1.5 quarts for the same price, is now still 1.5 quarts for even a higher price. When Dreyers first did this long ago, their stock price shot up. All the other manufactures soon took notice and followed suit. What a racket, yet, no one is calling for a boycott of these products- no one. Same can be said for the airlines- no boycott, no outrage. They've got passengers and consumers trained well and by the b-lls!!!! 3 Cheers for American-style Capitalism!!!!
9
"What was once a true half-gallon of ice cream for the price of $4 a half-gallon, went to 1.75 quarts, for the same price, then to 1.5 quarts for the same price, is now still 1.5 quarts for even a higher price."
And here I thought I was the only one who noticed that.
"All the other manufactures soon took notice and followed suit."
Now that's where you're wrong. The 1.75 to 1.5 happened overnight -- by all.
And here I thought I was the only one who noticed that.
"All the other manufactures soon took notice and followed suit."
Now that's where you're wrong. The 1.75 to 1.5 happened overnight -- by all.
1
Dreyers took the lead going from a half gallon to 1.75 quarts and charging the same price, from there it was just a matter of time for someone to take it even further. One idea led for other greedy ideas. Now the airline industry has followed suit.
They are pigs.
4
It's not the airlines' problem. Companies will try to always find ways to maximize their bottom line.
It's the government regulation problem. It still boggles my mind why the gov't allow consolidation of airlines. The biggest economy in the world, and we only have 3 major airlines and even then they conveniently have their own turfs with only few markets to compete in. That's a problem. If the gov't wanted to only have 3 major airlines they should've made them compete in every single market. I know that's not feasible, so DON'T LET THEM CONSOLIDATE!
The anti-trust committee really needs more stringent standard to allow consolidation in the current world. Monopoly or even oligopoly are detrimental to the society period.
It's the government regulation problem. It still boggles my mind why the gov't allow consolidation of airlines. The biggest economy in the world, and we only have 3 major airlines and even then they conveniently have their own turfs with only few markets to compete in. That's a problem. If the gov't wanted to only have 3 major airlines they should've made them compete in every single market. I know that's not feasible, so DON'T LET THEM CONSOLIDATE!
The anti-trust committee really needs more stringent standard to allow consolidation in the current world. Monopoly or even oligopoly are detrimental to the society period.
it is the airlines problem if they are lobbying Congress to keep their hands off of them. Corruption- from the industry to the halls of Congress. Why haven't we heard anything form the White House about this?
1
The food served on U.S. airlines is disgraceful, even in business class,, and sometimes rancid.
2
Unlike in most of the world, US airlines are not government-owned or subsidized. Their objective is to make money. History has shown that when the airlines are doing well, their employees also do well. But as a result of successive airline bankruptcies, employees are required to work longer hours and are under constant pressure to be more efficient. All that doesn't mean that we should always fly with US carriers if we'd be more comfortable on a foreign carrier. But after experiencing unpredictable work stoppages and slowdowns on European airlines, I try to avoid them on long distance trips. In Europe, and sometimes in Asia, workers can strike for any reason or no reason.
2
Price is set by supply and demand, not cost of inputs.
6
Agree. But the fuel surcharge? That's an artificial additional price that was supposed to help airlines weather a fuel crisis that's been over for almost two years.
3
High prices and record profits are a direct result of lax antitrust enforcement that created an airline industry oligopoly of concentrated power. Less competition has led to higher prices and lower quality services. The consumer loses — and the air transportation becomes less efficient due to the pricing power of fewer players. Blame the DOJ and its political minions that serve their powerful business masters at the expense of you and me. History has proven that markets cannot be trusted to regulate themselves — just as the fox cannot be trusted to guard the hen house. Government plays the indispensible role of policing markets to protect the consumer. This is the only means of keeping competition high and prices low in a free market capitalist society.
2
We desperately need to reconsider the role of rail in the US again. Planes are now what rail used to be--moving masses of people from all walks of life across the country on short and long hauls. Only one mode of transportation simply can't sustain the huge numbers of people that need it. Passenger rail service in the US is less than it could be because with a few exceptions (ACELA) rail lines are dedicated to freight and passenger trains using the same lines must wait. Rail is much more environmentally responsible in terms of fuel usage for miles travelled. Yes, developing rail will be expensive but I now pay $500 for even a short jump plane flight within the US and I am pressuring my representatives to think bigger on this subject.
10
Here's the problem with rail: Where do you park your car when you get the train? Most big train stations are in the center of cities, where parking is difficult (at least here in the Chicago area, that's true). That's one of the main things that would keep me from taking a train, even if they eventually become high speed. Right now, they're so slow no one in their right mind would take them. I looked at a train to Nashville and it's 10 hours. That's 3 hours more than driving.
3
That's true to a point but long distance is where the airplane excels. People today are simply not going to take 24 or more hours on a train no matter how much more comfortable it is when a plane can accomplish the same thing in a few short hours. Nearby or regional city pairs yes, but it is only a partial solution.
3
Your Premise is silly.
Where do you park your car when you fly?
Most people take a ride by a relative, friend, Public transportation to the airport.
In the major cities it is much easier to connect from public transit to the train then doing it to the airport.
Driving is fine. As far as flying - you need to add at least 2-3 hours for screening by TSA and laguage retrieval unless you travel with a carry-on. Yes - trains are generally slower than they should be but thats America. Put some money into rail if for nothing else a strategic reason in case the Air Traffic needs to be suspended again. Only in America you have sections of single rail to share incoming and outgoing Rail Traffic
Where do you park your car when you fly?
Most people take a ride by a relative, friend, Public transportation to the airport.
In the major cities it is much easier to connect from public transit to the train then doing it to the airport.
Driving is fine. As far as flying - you need to add at least 2-3 hours for screening by TSA and laguage retrieval unless you travel with a carry-on. Yes - trains are generally slower than they should be but thats America. Put some money into rail if for nothing else a strategic reason in case the Air Traffic needs to be suspended again. Only in America you have sections of single rail to share incoming and outgoing Rail Traffic
2
Fine, don't raise prices. But could US airlines at least put some effort into being less belligerent and unpleasant? The treatment of passengers is appalling, especially compared to international norms.
10
I am not thrilled about being gouged. But it's always my choice whether to fly or not. The airlines lost money from 1979 to around 2010- that's the three decades that I refer to. But capital intensive industries (equipment, also info networks) do require some degree of market concentration- which is where they've now got to. If they are secretly meeting and discussing prices of things, well- that is collusion. From what I see, they are just exercising good business sense that was missing for a long time. Some consumers can run rings around the airlines, which I had the time to, but I don't. Economic history suggests that these good times will not last for the airlines, by the way. So free peanuts is just nipping around the edges of competition that may come. But until then, i will pay full fare.
1
Between the collusion among airline oligarchs, poor customer service, frequent delays and cancellations (which are now simply an expected part of flying), nickel and diming by airlines, and the TSA (another issue altogether) the stress of traveling has deterred me from wanting to go anywhere by airline unless i absolutely have to.
While it would be nice if we tried to regulate airlines and decrease collusion, I say we invest in high speed rail (like space-x) and just scrap the dysfunctional and high stress/ high price and doomed to fail (oil is eventually going to run out) airline industry altogether
While it would be nice if we tried to regulate airlines and decrease collusion, I say we invest in high speed rail (like space-x) and just scrap the dysfunctional and high stress/ high price and doomed to fail (oil is eventually going to run out) airline industry altogether
3
The American business traveling community that also includes foreign nationals working for US companies ought to organize and demand that the Federal Government launch the planning and construction of a high speed and higher speed national and international, coast to coast and north to south rail network in the US and Canada to match those in Japan, Europe and China. Why?
The US airlines, with the exception of Southwest, just want you to sit down, pay what they demand and shut up. It wasn't always this way. Years ago when I traveled constantly the US airlines offered meals, legroom and on coast to coast flights any number of unexpected amenities like a lavish buffet on the huge 747s for economy passengers.
Now I take Amtrak everywhere, traveling on weekends if the trip involves sleeping on the train. Frankly it is a pleasure even with the occasional lapses in customer service, the delays and unreliable on time performance. The dinners in the full service dining cars are fine, the improvements made in a number of areas like ticketing, stations and general comfort have been noticeable. Yet, Congress needs to increase funding substantially and provide Amtrak with whatever it takes to bring it into the 21st century while making sure the North American and foreign traveler are not condemned to being abused while flying in planes that are little more than school buses with wings.
The US airlines, with the exception of Southwest, just want you to sit down, pay what they demand and shut up. It wasn't always this way. Years ago when I traveled constantly the US airlines offered meals, legroom and on coast to coast flights any number of unexpected amenities like a lavish buffet on the huge 747s for economy passengers.
Now I take Amtrak everywhere, traveling on weekends if the trip involves sleeping on the train. Frankly it is a pleasure even with the occasional lapses in customer service, the delays and unreliable on time performance. The dinners in the full service dining cars are fine, the improvements made in a number of areas like ticketing, stations and general comfort have been noticeable. Yet, Congress needs to increase funding substantially and provide Amtrak with whatever it takes to bring it into the 21st century while making sure the North American and foreign traveler are not condemned to being abused while flying in planes that are little more than school buses with wings.
8
"Years ago when I traveled constantly the US airlines offered meals, legroom and on coast to coast flights any number of unexpected amenities like a lavish buffet on the huge 747s for economy passengers. "
True, but comparatively the airfares then were far, far higher than what we pay today for coach. You can't have it both ways - if the public demands cheap airfare as the prime if not only consideration (and they by and large do) then something on the other end is going to give. You can't get Ritz treatment at Motel 6 prices.
True, but comparatively the airfares then were far, far higher than what we pay today for coach. You can't have it both ways - if the public demands cheap airfare as the prime if not only consideration (and they by and large do) then something on the other end is going to give. You can't get Ritz treatment at Motel 6 prices.
3
Years ago it would have cost you the equivalent of $1,500 to get from NYC to LA, too. Can't have it both ways.
3
I am talking about the time period between 1960 and 1968 when there were many more airlines. I don't remember what the fares were adjusted for inflation but I knew I could afford it and I had the as I have ever since successfully eluded prosperity.
I can remember in 1971 going to Europe with my girlfriend for the first time as a student who drove a New York cab at night. I saved up the money for the two week trip from the cab job and found the airfares were affordable and the service was fine. And I did not take Icelandic Air, the airline of choice for students because of its low fares.
I can remember in 1971 going to Europe with my girlfriend for the first time as a student who drove a New York cab at night. I saved up the money for the two week trip from the cab job and found the airfares were affordable and the service was fine. And I did not take Icelandic Air, the airline of choice for students because of its low fares.
1
The free market has worked its magic and we can fly around safely for moderate prices. It does seem, though, that the level of service that people are willing to endure in return for low fares is quite low.
5
Passengers should organize against the airlines as the UAW does against the auto makers. Pick out one for boycott to force a settlement the others will follow.
There should not be large profits for executives when passengers are treated so poorly.
There should not be large profits for executives when passengers are treated so poorly.
3
"... the UAW does against the auto makers."
Talking ancient history. UAW is now a fraud, represent owners, not workers. See latest contract.
Talking ancient history. UAW is now a fraud, represent owners, not workers. See latest contract.
The second to last paragraph speaks volumes:
"Demand is rising, meaning flights are full and airlines have few incentives to discount fares."
Just throwing this out there. Everyone clamoring for gov't intervention to lower prices for air travel: you do realize that air travel is one of the major contributors to man-made climate change, right?
So a high price for this convenience would be a natural deterrent to more airplanes whizzing around and belching pollutants into the atmosphere.
Yet, I've a feeling a lot of Limousine Liberals are not cancelling their travel plans.
"Demand is rising, meaning flights are full and airlines have few incentives to discount fares."
Just throwing this out there. Everyone clamoring for gov't intervention to lower prices for air travel: you do realize that air travel is one of the major contributors to man-made climate change, right?
So a high price for this convenience would be a natural deterrent to more airplanes whizzing around and belching pollutants into the atmosphere.
Yet, I've a feeling a lot of Limousine Liberals are not cancelling their travel plans.
8
It baffles me why so many people fail to grasp basic economics. All businesses, airlines included, will charge what they can get for their goods and services. Businesses do not concern themselves with what is acceptable markup, they allow the market to make that decision. As long as people buy tickets the price will not change.
That is, unless we treat air travel as a public-interest industry like utilities and put price-controlling mechanisms in place.
That is, unless we treat air travel as a public-interest industry like utilities and put price-controlling mechanisms in place.
4
And darn it - people do the same thing. I have IT staff making twice as much as the lower paid generalists in the company. Obviously greedy folks, charging what the market will bear for their services. Just finished the super bowl. Those players take home far more than the groundskeepers and security. Greed? Pilots make more than baggage handlers. Greed?
What is the actual percent of profit that airlines are making on revenue, return on Capitol and other common financial metrics.
I can't believe the writers here. One would believe that any company making a profit should lower their prices to the point of break-even. Let's take it a step further and anyone making above the median wage, voluntarily give up their excess salary. Really what is the difference?
What is the actual percent of profit that airlines are making on revenue, return on Capitol and other common financial metrics.
I can't believe the writers here. One would believe that any company making a profit should lower their prices to the point of break-even. Let's take it a step further and anyone making above the median wage, voluntarily give up their excess salary. Really what is the difference?
1
Just four airlines now control 80 percent of the U.S. domestic market--that is nothing short of an oligopoly. Out of the five largest mergers/consolidations, four have taken place since 2008. Apparently the Anti-trust division of the Justice Department no longer serves the interests of the American consumer, as it has turned a blind eye to these mergers over the past 8 years.
10
Folks get out your calculators and do a little basic finance math. An airline ticket today, is still cheaper, adjusted for inflation, than an airline ticket was in in the 1960's. Airline travel is not an entitlement. The modern day safety record of the the airline industry is worth every single dollar you spend going to your next business meeting or visit to grandma's house.
6
The TSA and the airport authorities should start charging airlines for each bag that needs to go through the passenger security checkpoint. Airlines have imposed checked bag fees to make money and as a result, more passengers carry-on bags to avoid the extra fees. The extra baggage carried on can create a hostile situation when all the bins are full . . . but of course the airlines want that so they can charge for pre-boarding. Airlines should also be sued for the ways they inconsistently handle carry-on bags – imagine paying to check your bag while someone carries their bag to the gate and gets it checked for free because the bins are full? And you receive the bag BEFORE the passengers who paid to check their bags?
And thanks to airline lobbying, the US is left without a high-speed rail alternative, leaving air travel the only real option if you need to travel more than 400 miles from your home.
And thanks to airline lobbying, the US is left without a high-speed rail alternative, leaving air travel the only real option if you need to travel more than 400 miles from your home.
12
These peanuts you crave? You can purchase them on the concourse after you have passed security. Along with bottled water, some really decent magazines, beef jerky my favorite, and an assortment of enough other stuff to keep you coddled on your flight. Don't forget your noise cancelling headphones and go straight for a blanket so nap time is just the way it should be. Alcoholic beverages optional but hey, it still is nap time with a bottle.
3
In short, it's business as usual for American corporations. Maximize profits by any means necessary.
Greed, not service, is the name of the game in American business. Where they can get away with price-gouging, they will.
Greed, not service, is the name of the game in American business. Where they can get away with price-gouging, they will.
6
The price of Jet-A at JFK airport is still up at 5.81 a gallon.
It's not as if American airlines offered decent service. Oh, sure, those who can afford ludicrously high-priced Business Class fares receive decent service, but those of us can only afford to travel in Steerage where there's barely enough space to sit are treated like cattle. United Airlines used to offer decent service, but after merging with Continental this took a nosedive. Example: on a flight from Washington Dulles to London, I along with every other Steerage passenger was jammed into a Boeing 757 for seven hours. Right then and there, I committed myself to never flying on United again.
2
It seems to me this is much less about monopoly pricing than capacity constraints. When, at the installed industry capacity (which is fixed in the short term), marginal cost (driven by fuel) is close to or exceeds marginal willingness to pay ("mwp" or just "demand"), fuel costs should drive prices (supply and demand intersect at quantity < industry capacity). But now that fuel prices are so much lower, mwp far exceeds cost. Indusrty capacity can't expand to the point where mwp = mc (demand = supply), so there is surplus and the value of that surplus accrues as economic rent to the owner of the scarce resource, the airlines. It has little to do with individual pricing power. You do see airlines investing to expand capacity, which will bring supply and demand into equilibrium over the long term. Coordinated constraint on those capacity additions would suggest collusion / pricing power, but that's not what's happening here at least in the short term.
Peanuts? Who needs peanuts?
I just want my dignity back when I fly.
I just want my dignity back when I fly.
4
Planes are flying full. Why should the airlines lower fares in that climate? Being nice to customers by lowering fares would be corporate irresponsibility. Airlines are not utilities and haven't been for years. They are profit making (hopefully) businesses and fares will come down when fewer people fly.
This article is silly.
This article is silly.
5
Somebody at a Sanders event needs to ask him if the airlines that have been consolidated need to be broken up due to their ongoing price gouging. This is starting to look monopolistic.
6
Domestic carriers (except Hawaiian) are all crap and unfriendly, overpriced and you don't get much from them except the uncomfortable and unfriendly flight. All these years they are increasing the cost of tickets blaming gas prices blah, blah but year after year with decreased cost in gas and other sources they just seem to keep those same high prices (this goes for all consumer goods etc.) or even increasing them hypocrites.
2
The only answer is Uber for air travel. Uber created supply were it was scarce thus increasing availability and lowering prices. An equivalent of Uber for air travel would be startup airlines offering on demand flights on overbooked destinations and dates. This cannot be done though without government (airports need to have open slots) and unions (flexible schedule for crews) buy in.
The airlines were allowed to consolidate in a different environment. I believe that congress should pass a law that makes fees illegal. Consumers could at least not have an OMG experience if they knew what the total price was before the purchase. Airlines are now an oligopoly. New competitors should be encouraged both by customers and the various government entities.
1
I am a sometime flyer. It took the airlines three decades to finally get their business model right. Free markets are working here. There is always room for an upstart airline. When I book flights, it's usually on short notice, so for that I end up paying top dollar. A savvy consumer should be able to work around the edges of airlines (also banks, hotels, car rental and cellphone companies). Consumers need to be smarter. If I pay up, it's because I am lazy or don't want to spend the time gaming the system- which others do. But the free market is working here.
Right, the free market is working fine, which is why consumers pay more for less comfortable aircraft, a window seat, snacks, food and drinks on long flights, and the privilege of checking a suitcase - all services that used to be free.
That's the free market "working," is it?
It looks a lot more like monopolies working.
That's the free market "working," is it?
It looks a lot more like monopolies working.
5
Consolidation keeping prices high is one thing but while I hope I'm wrong, this has the hallmarks of price fixing all over it
3
Relative to my $250 monthly cable bill, the price of a Broadway show ticket or dinner in NY, or a good seat at a baseball game I find airfares to be a good deal. If I need to go somewhere I can in a reasonable amount of time and a short amount of time compared to alternatives. While airfares have only come down a little over the past couple of years despite jet fuel plunging, they are only expensive when compared to the low rates that existed when the airlines were all going bankrupt and reducing wages to employees, the same ones that need to fly and fix the planes I travel on. I would certainly rather pay less but airfare is not overpriced compared to other goods and services.
2
Your cable should not be more than $50 as you get hundreds of useless channels. Your morals should tell you that you are getting ripped apart and you are making someone rich even more. All those shows and sports games are also a ripoff and simply not going is the best.
1
Why rock the boat or rather the airplane when they can get away with peanuts?
1
The statistic that Newark is the most expensive airport year after year, doesn't really paint the full picture. For years I had a client in Charlotte NC. No matter when I booked, weeks, months or days in advance, the cheapest fare was $1000 to $1300. If I drove to LaGuardia or Kennedy, an additional hour further from my house, fares were routinely available for $299.
Airlines need to compete for landing slots, not be able to hoard them to create local and regional monopolies. Or perhaps the FAA should reallocate them annually to ensure competition.
The so-called discipline of the free market is clearly broken. I hope the Justice Department can fix this monopolistic mess.
Airlines need to compete for landing slots, not be able to hoard them to create local and regional monopolies. Or perhaps the FAA should reallocate them annually to ensure competition.
The so-called discipline of the free market is clearly broken. I hope the Justice Department can fix this monopolistic mess.
4
The airlines rake in huge amounts of dough and we have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to get a seat not with a few inches more legroom, but a few aisles closer to the front of the plane. Cattle class, indeed.
2
Profitable airlines don't trouble me, but I sincerely hope they're investing the new profits to renew their fleets and provide for the staff support that makes for safety.
4
Profits don't bother me. Price gouging does.
5
Who gets to make the distinction between the two, Jeff?
1
The problem is that the Justice Dept and the FTC--both of which enforce antitrust laws--were brain dead in the Bush Administration and have been comatose in the Obama administration. The only explanation I can think of is the influence of political donations to both parties weakens the will of political appointees (of both parties) who determine policy to take any action that might compromise future donations. Maybe someone with more knowledge about this than I could provide a less cynical explanation.
9
America is the most corrupt country in the world where lobbying with money is legal and there you go.
3
Americans, rise up!! Flying is incredibly bad for the environment and the pocketbook. Businesses should be doing more with telecommunication, Skype, etc. Individuals should think twice before booking a vacation- like the previous poster said, find a local destination for spring break.
Let's see if their profit will continue when fewer of us fly.
Let's see if their profit will continue when fewer of us fly.
3
Telecommunication is inferior to face to face communication.
3
Well, the republicans have gutted what used to be considered anti trust legislation and oversight. Of course, we could expect the airlines to be as self-regulating as the finance, higher education or the health care sector, but, then again maybe that wouldn't be such a good thing.
Collusion is what you get when your government encourages a merger & acquisition oriented, non anti-trust oriented, lobbyist revolving door atmosphere.
But then again, everybody who is thinking that airlines shouldn't capture higher profits when they can might think about sharing the airlines losses when fuel costs are soaring.
Nothing's perfect in a capitalist economy, but it is the best of the poor economic / governance structures in world history ... at least when its properly regulated.
Collusion is what you get when your government encourages a merger & acquisition oriented, non anti-trust oriented, lobbyist revolving door atmosphere.
But then again, everybody who is thinking that airlines shouldn't capture higher profits when they can might think about sharing the airlines losses when fuel costs are soaring.
Nothing's perfect in a capitalist economy, but it is the best of the poor economic / governance structures in world history ... at least when its properly regulated.
1
"At least when it is properly regulated" indeed.
1
Yea, I guess Republican President Obama and his DOJ who approved the mergers stuck it to us again, right?
2
When airline companies are allowed to merge as they are currently doing now, the consumer is at a disadvantage. There is no incentive to decrease their prices because there is not enough competition. I booked tickets to Florida on Delta Airlines for February. The cost came to $357.00, a "discount". I had to make a change several weeks after I booked it. I was charged $200 penalty per ticket. I was then advised that that I'd have to pay an additional $25 per ticket if I wanted to a seat assignment. (Ten seats would be blocked and available for choosing upon check in.) I couldn't afford to wait because it was the Winter Break and I didn't want to risk being bumped off or waitlisted. So, I basically paid $225 additional for a ticket. Who's looking after the consumer's interest? No one. There's not even anyone you can complain to.
2
You got exactly what you paid for. You could have paid full fare coach, and have a seat assignment and change included for 'free'. I just paid for some hotel rooms in a month. I paid about 20% less but I can't cancel or change. Should I cry a river if for some reason I can't use the rooms?
If you are flying from NYC to Miami and back, that is about 2500 miles. You are now paying about $600 for the privilege or about 24 cents per mile. Not bad overall for the convenience and speed.
If you are flying from NYC to Miami and back, that is about 2500 miles. You are now paying about $600 for the privilege or about 24 cents per mile. Not bad overall for the convenience and speed.
This is a good example of how key industries have monopolized profits, including cable/telecoms, utilities, financial services and technology. This all comes down to lobbyists and corruption of our political system that screws the average person who pay more for services. The rich always win.
7
It will never end unless lobbying becomes illegal especially with donating money to politicians or companies etc. America is more corrupt then n Korea or those backward countries somewhere out there.
1
As a weekly flyer I haven't seen any reduction in ticket costs.
Airlines need to use profits to upgrade older planes, ditch the small regional jets and improve performance.
If you are charging a kings ransom we should at least take off and land on time.....
Airlines need to use profits to upgrade older planes, ditch the small regional jets and improve performance.
If you are charging a kings ransom we should at least take off and land on time.....
2
I recommend flying ANY airline over any American airline whenever possible. There the passenger is still seen as a customer not a problem. Cathay Pacific or Lufthansa or KLM, there the passenger is still valued. Not at all by UA, AA, and DA. Too bad foreign airlines cannot compete domestically, it would force the Big 3 to step up or disappear. Especially nice too after the airlines enjoyed nearly $20 BILLION dollars of taxpayer money after 9/11 to stay afloat and continue to enjoy huge federal subsidies at airports for security, air traffic and the like. Railroads pay for everything and the airlines enjoy never-ending taxpayer subsidies from federal, state and local taxpayers. The reward is horrific treatment and non-existent service.
10
I fail to understand the complaint. If Americans claim to believe in "the free market" and moan and groan about government regulations they must be prepared to fork it out. From what I understand the academic who pushed for airline deregulation now admits that was a mistake. I think it's time to do an AT$T style breakup on the airline industry!
5
How about this US carriers, rather than give hefty returns to your share holders and hefty pay increases to your executives, why don't you try giving us some legroom and actually start replacing your old beat up planes rather than just talking about how you are considering doing it. Except for Virgin America, the US carriers all rank far below any foreign carriers I have used. Except for that one I took in an obscure part of South America, but then I think it's major business was probably running drugs.
3
They still give out peanuts?
4
Apparently the FAA and FTC have never met.
4
Prices are still too low, making air travel the nightmare it continues to be. The idea that air travel is a sovereign & unlimited right for everyone must be abandoned.
Air travel under regulation was pleasurable if expensive, although lower fares were available to tourists. So competition was for service, not price.
Air travel under regulation was pleasurable if expensive, although lower fares were available to tourists. So competition was for service, not price.
5
See how nicely the "free market" works? The invisible hand, of course, is senior management...in this case, of the airlines. Consolidation and collusion are the result of lax government oversight. The only thing you can count on his how easily free markets are manipulated in the absence of regulation and enforcement. Conservatives never seem concerned about this.
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2
I remember when aviation fuel was so costly that the airlines asked for help from us patrons by charging for bags to help make up for the cost.
Now that the cost is down...... well... you know the rest of the story.
I'm waiting for Frontier, which nickel and dimes us at every turn, to start charging for the use of the closet potty. Flying today is what we use to say about Greyhound busses back when I was a kid.
Now that the cost is down...... well... you know the rest of the story.
I'm waiting for Frontier, which nickel and dimes us at every turn, to start charging for the use of the closet potty. Flying today is what we use to say about Greyhound busses back when I was a kid.
9
Hhmm..... "after a decade of losses, bankruptcies and cutbacks" and they turn profit and now they are ripping people off. Don't people realize that many of the foreign airlines that everyone says are better than ours are subsidized by their respective governments?
3
US law discourages foreign investment in US airlines. We need a new international agreement to open up competition on a fair and reciprocal basis. Without additional competition, US airlines will continue to reap oligopolistic profits at the expense of the flying public.
3
"The base fare was $292, but the final price included a “carrier-imposed surcharge” of $516, he said."
How can the reporter report such a preposterous thing without further explanation? What was the basis for this surcharge? What makes a "carrier imposed surcharge" different from an arbitrary "profit-increasing surcharge"? If it was a fuel surcharge, on what basis is it calculated, given that fuel costs are one-third of what they were a year ago (as reported elsewhere in the article)?
This is a crucial failure of reporting.
How can the reporter report such a preposterous thing without further explanation? What was the basis for this surcharge? What makes a "carrier imposed surcharge" different from an arbitrary "profit-increasing surcharge"? If it was a fuel surcharge, on what basis is it calculated, given that fuel costs are one-third of what they were a year ago (as reported elsewhere in the article)?
This is a crucial failure of reporting.
6
In recent years I have found services of US airlines poor as compared to International airlines. The air-crafts are old and dirty. There is little or no food and even if it is given in the economy class it is horrible (grade D). The stewardess are not friendly. You can not get a smile out of them. It is clear that they don't want to be there. Of course, they charge twice as much as the competing airlines. At a recent flight from US to Bangkok, Etihad charged almost 50% less. They had newer aircraft-Airbus 380. The food quality in Economy class was A+. To our delight, during the middle of the flight they served sliced apples (Thank you Etihad). The waitresses were always smiling and available throughout the flight. Having flown on Turkish Airline, I have found there service to be excellent. Unless the CEOs (and shareholders of US airlines ) wake up, like the automobile industry, US airlines will die. I have stopped flying with domestic airlines where ever I can. They gauge you and then put you on a competing airline. American was doing it by supposedly selling seat on their own airline yet putting passengers on Etihad and making money as a Consolidator!
7
"stewardess", "waitress"...was this written in 1960?
1
Large American corporations have spent so many decades "pushing the envelope" in customer abuse, learning along the way that they'll put up with anything short of a physical assault, that reversing this trend is impossible. The mindset is so arrogant and dismissive of clientele that even if you brought the inequity to their attention, they'd think you're talking another language.
8
Why is it that every single time this story line comes up, there is the tiresome "Reagan killed regulation and consumer protection", a total 100% falsehood? Airline deregulation took place under JIMMY CARTER, before Reagan was even in office.
2
We, the weary, bruised, tormented and generally tortured flying public, do hereby declare that we are united in our collective revulsion toward all major American airlines. A supersonic delta force driven revolution from the ground up is needed to regain our satisfaction and loyalty Please keep your peanuts and shove them where no carry on will ever fit
10
The government has allowed the big airlines to merge creating no competition. This is price fixing at it's best. High Oil prices were blamed for the fees being implemented. Now the fees are here to stay and the prices remain high. Keep voting for the same corporate puppet politicians and this is what you get.
4
What about just flying a discount airline or a foreign one etc.?
If US airlines suddenly stop selling tickets, you had better believe that they will lower prices. This same phenomenon occurs with gasoline prices. It's called "price stickiness."
People want to look to the Government to "Fix" this? I mean, really, is this what we've become as a nation?
Oh, and by the way, this is also why things like healthcare and college tuition are sky high. Unless providers have an incentive to lower their prices, they will keep right on charging whatever price they can.
If US airlines suddenly stop selling tickets, you had better believe that they will lower prices. This same phenomenon occurs with gasoline prices. It's called "price stickiness."
People want to look to the Government to "Fix" this? I mean, really, is this what we've become as a nation?
Oh, and by the way, this is also why things like healthcare and college tuition are sky high. Unless providers have an incentive to lower their prices, they will keep right on charging whatever price they can.
3
The solution suggested in your first sentence is a non-solution.
There are no discount domestic carrier or foreign carrier options for many if not most domestic US routes (I believe that foreign airlines or even prohibited from operating domestically within the US except as part of a international route).
Most US domestic travelers are now at the mercy of a monopolized industry. And, yes, only the government has the power to undermine such monopolization so that the free market can work effectively for all, including consumers.
There are no discount domestic carrier or foreign carrier options for many if not most domestic US routes (I believe that foreign airlines or even prohibited from operating domestically within the US except as part of a international route).
Most US domestic travelers are now at the mercy of a monopolized industry. And, yes, only the government has the power to undermine such monopolization so that the free market can work effectively for all, including consumers.
5
The airline industry is not monopolized. There are dozens of carriers.
It's oligopolistic, however, because of the simple fact that supply can't meet the sky-high demand for air travel. There aren't enough slots to simply fulfill demand. Every flight seems to be filled these days.
Your supposed solution (to lower prices via gov't intervention) will just increase demand for something that's already in strained supply in the first place. Now that flights are "cheaper" people will just fly more. That will just make things worse won't it?
I'd be in favor of, say, some sort of fuel index being used to arbitrate whether a fuel surcharge is warranted. Similar to what railroads or utilities use.
There's a simple logic applied here. Demand for air travel is very high so prices tend to be high. Moreover, since it's one of the major causes of climate change maybe higher prices as a detriment to air travel is a good thing?
It's oligopolistic, however, because of the simple fact that supply can't meet the sky-high demand for air travel. There aren't enough slots to simply fulfill demand. Every flight seems to be filled these days.
Your supposed solution (to lower prices via gov't intervention) will just increase demand for something that's already in strained supply in the first place. Now that flights are "cheaper" people will just fly more. That will just make things worse won't it?
I'd be in favor of, say, some sort of fuel index being used to arbitrate whether a fuel surcharge is warranted. Similar to what railroads or utilities use.
There's a simple logic applied here. Demand for air travel is very high so prices tend to be high. Moreover, since it's one of the major causes of climate change maybe higher prices as a detriment to air travel is a good thing?
Some of the same people who complain about corporate profits are also champions of capitalism. Go figure. You can't have it both ways.
1
Yes, they are the same ones who whine that they won't have a golden retirement because of the poor performance of the stocks and mutual funds in their 401(k)s.
1
Just American capitalism at work, folks. If you don't like it, don't fly. If you fly internationally, there are non-US carriers that are much cheaper.
3
A lot of commenters like to highlight the differences in the flight experience with foreign carriers, some of it true and markedly different. Some of that is due to things that can't happen in the US, aside from the financial assistance some of those airlines get.
Take staffing, which is often operated in a very different fashion. Airlines lauded for the cabin service, such as Emirates or Singapore, for example, get to engage in the kind of sex and age discrimination illegal in the US, so no chubby grey hairs offering you a Coke, for you generally only see young and pretty flight crews on them while you may have a "cranky" senior citizen flight attendant in the US. Foreign staff are often on short term contracts that enable the overseas airlines to drop aging attendants or those who have put on a few pounds (like it was here, essentially, until the 1970's). They simple don't allow flight attendants to work there for 20 or thirty years as in America and are very strict in their employment practices. Those carriers don't work under the ancient rules that the US does in the form of airline labor laws put in place under FDR (the Railway Act, which also, bizarrely, covers airlines workers)! Our system is a mess but be careful what you wish for. Simply passing new rules or requirements may either have unintended consequences or not achieve the same result due to huge differences in labor law.
Take staffing, which is often operated in a very different fashion. Airlines lauded for the cabin service, such as Emirates or Singapore, for example, get to engage in the kind of sex and age discrimination illegal in the US, so no chubby grey hairs offering you a Coke, for you generally only see young and pretty flight crews on them while you may have a "cranky" senior citizen flight attendant in the US. Foreign staff are often on short term contracts that enable the overseas airlines to drop aging attendants or those who have put on a few pounds (like it was here, essentially, until the 1970's). They simple don't allow flight attendants to work there for 20 or thirty years as in America and are very strict in their employment practices. Those carriers don't work under the ancient rules that the US does in the form of airline labor laws put in place under FDR (the Railway Act, which also, bizarrely, covers airlines workers)! Our system is a mess but be careful what you wish for. Simply passing new rules or requirements may either have unintended consequences or not achieve the same result due to huge differences in labor law.
3
Your comments on employment regulations for airline staff May well apply in the Middle East, but they o certainly do not apply to European airlines.
Employee protections in most European nations far exceed those here in the US, yet my experience is that flying European carriers is both a cheaper and a more pleasant experience.
And, by the way, I have noticed no correlation between the age (or weight) of a flight attendant and his or her level of helpfulness. Young people can be cranky, too, particularly if working conditions are stressful.
Employee protections in most European nations far exceed those here in the US, yet my experience is that flying European carriers is both a cheaper and a more pleasant experience.
And, by the way, I have noticed no correlation between the age (or weight) of a flight attendant and his or her level of helpfulness. Young people can be cranky, too, particularly if working conditions are stressful.
3
I agree about age not being a determinant alone, but that view is held by many - just look at airline review sites (Skytrax is a great one) and you'll be shocked at the comments by Europeans in particular chiding American crews for being old, dowdy, unattractive, etc. European laws aren't all that great in many areas - in France, for example, it is quite common to require applicants to send in a photo with an job application, with little to no recourse if you're just not "what they're looking for", i.e, too old, heavy, whatever.
1
Stubbornly high airfares? Shocking. Who would ever imagine that players in a cornered market would leverage demand to their advantage? Wait a minute. Isn't that what Adam Smith, he of the invisible hand taught us so well? There, now I feel better; just keep holding your breath, fares are sure to drop. Keep holding...
2
The Obama administration's Justice Department has been a roll-over for corporate mergers of all types. The airline industry, entertainment tickets, whatever. This in addition to the complete failure of sending a single banker to jail for the financial crisis.
1
Many commenters are making comparisons between US and foreign carriers, many of whom do, in fact, provide much better service it seems (not all, of course, such as RyanAir as people seem to think, but majors like Emirates for example). What I would like to see the NYT look into and really explain is the subsidy question, whether outright or in the form of government loans and backing that those oversees carriers get versus what they US airlines don't. It seems like many of those foreign airlines are shielded from some market forces by assistance from their governments, which changes the picture when you put one against the other.
6
I can assure you, if Emirates had to ferry vacationers from Dallas to Orlando while competing with Sprit, etc., the quality of service on those flights would drop like a rock.
Do bear in mind that the vast majority of 'Best Airlines in the World' are all international only airlines, or very limited domestic in the case of Air New Zealand.
Singapore, Qatar, Emirates, Cathay Pacific have exactly zero domestic flights and fly out of a single airport.
They cannot be compared, in the slightest, to airlines like the US has.
Do bear in mind that the vast majority of 'Best Airlines in the World' are all international only airlines, or very limited domestic in the case of Air New Zealand.
Singapore, Qatar, Emirates, Cathay Pacific have exactly zero domestic flights and fly out of a single airport.
They cannot be compared, in the slightest, to airlines like the US has.
4
Also include discussion where US government requires people to use US flag carriers for grants/funding made by US Govt or Govt. business. This ensures large revenue. Now some of these airlines, e.g. American, have code-shared flights. Thus, they buy cheap seat on foreign airlines (example Etihad) and sell them at full price and make huge profits.
3
I love this argument. As an Emirates fan myself, if the government of Dubai wants to extend its heavily subsidized but useful and prestigious airline into the US, why should we balk?? They're basically transferring that surplus to American consumers! And it's not just high end carriers -- Air Berlin. Air Arabia, etc are safe, moderately priced airlines that blow United out of the water on service. And you think American,Delta, etc aren't heavily subsidized by the US government? Maybe it's not (always) a cash infusion but they reap regulatory subsidies up the wazoo.
Plus, I would love to fly Emirates on my JFK-SFO runs. Here's holding out hope....
Plus, I would love to fly Emirates on my JFK-SFO runs. Here's holding out hope....
5
When all the big airlines were being merged, the alarm bells of probable antitrust activities by the few remaining airline conglomerates in the future (The words "I won't reduce my fares, if you don't" are silently spoken now.) were ignored by our Congressional representatives.
The politicians simply ignored the old adage of "the more competitors that you have, the more competion that you will have."
Before the 2016 elections, put these politicians who ignored this simple truth on TV and ask them what can be done now.
The politicians simply ignored the old adage of "the more competitors that you have, the more competion that you will have."
Before the 2016 elections, put these politicians who ignored this simple truth on TV and ask them what can be done now.
4
The airline industry has been getting pounded for the past decade and they finally make a decent profit and now they're seen as hoodlums. Southwest and American profited about 15% after taxes. United earned about 10%. Given what they do, the overall investment and the number of people they employ, their profits are still mediocre, especially when measured against companies like Facebook, Google and Apple. What does FB really offer us? We can post photos, pretend we have a zillion friends and say stupid stuff. Google a decent search engine, but so what? At least Apple makes something, and then they hide their profits offshore. Let the airlines make a little money, whiners.
8
I think what annoys people is the shell game, the duplicity of raising prices when fuel costs are high, but holding on to that revenue through add-on fees.
4
I gather you fly, say, at least once a month at least cross-country and back at your own expense and are, say, 6'2" tall. I agree that we don't actually want all airlines to go bankrupt or have to be nationalized to keep running. While you assert that their profits are currently mediocre, it is just an assertion, one daydreamer's opinion, with no indication of the point at which you would consider their profits to be sufficient or even excessive when passengers are treated like chattel. One might also consider: When there are twenty airlines operating, it is hard to imagine that all twenty are colluding behind the scenes. When there are basically only four, when they each have hubs in which they face little competition at all, when their spokespeople sound like parrots saying approximately the same thing and, more importantly, they seem to disdain competing for customers (except for the title of least comfortable flight), is there not some reason to investigate possible collusion, just to make sure the human beings running these companies haven't given in to temptation? If they made strategic errors in the past after the industry was deregulated, who made those errors? Passengers or management? Why do passengers end up paying for them instead of managers? And no, getting fired and being given millions to say bye-bye (as has been reported often enough in the cases of failed CEO's of major corporations) is not, in common parlance, paying for one's errors.
5
Their CEOs get fat salary for harassing passengers!
4
Transportation systems are like utilities. A balance must be struck between over-regulation and under-regulation. Zero regulation is simply not viable, as we see in evidence today. Just as there is only one set of water pipes going to each house, there is a limited number of airports and gates serving each city. When a handful of providers control limited gates, flights to that city become a near monopoly situation. The biggest national hubs should be forced to add "flex-gates", designed from the ground up to always be shared by multiple carriers. Gates that can be used by any airline large or small, to add flights to any city on a whim. More smaller carriers must be allowed to disrupt the monopolistic super carriers hold on the airport system. The only catch, they must be well regulated too. Safety standards must be maintained and minimum service levels added to the regulatory mix.
6
The problem with your gate idea is that the gates are owned and controlled by each airport. Trying to get these operators to share a national standard will be next to impossible if not legally out of the reach of federal regulations.
1
"they must be well regulated too."
The government worshiping liberal/progressives should love this opportunity to add more useless, parasitic, self-serving bureaucrats to the millions that already infest all levels of government so as to "regulate" the evil capitalists.
In their ideal world, the liberal/progressives would have everyone work for their great god government, just like in the old Soviet Union and we all know how well that worked out don't we?
The government worshiping liberal/progressives should love this opportunity to add more useless, parasitic, self-serving bureaucrats to the millions that already infest all levels of government so as to "regulate" the evil capitalists.
In their ideal world, the liberal/progressives would have everyone work for their great god government, just like in the old Soviet Union and we all know how well that worked out don't we?
2
You are very mistaken if you think airlines are unregulated. And please remember that airports are generally owned by public authorities.
3
The airline industry in the USA has pretty stratified into two tiers: business and retail. Business travelers typically don't care what is charged: it's not their money. Retail fliers, on the other hand, are price sensitive and drive the shabby experience in coach. Most retail fliers only care about obtaining the lowest total price, period. They are willing to surrender legroom, snacks, service, etc. As a retail flier I am willing to pay extra for premium-economy, a la Turkish Airlines, but that is rarely offered on domestic flights. Often it is just an emergency row seat. Sigh!
7
I am not a frequent flier but am very flexible with my travel dates. In early February I flew on American from Providence to West Palm Beach for $106 and returned yesterday on Southwest for $96. If you can use the flexible date calendar, you can get a darn cheap ticket.
3
And do you think those low fares actually covered the costs associated with flying you to and from?
I can assure you, the airlines lose money on fares that low, money that must be made up in higher fares on higher demand routes, business class, luggage fees and so on.
I can assure you, the airlines lose money on fares that low, money that must be made up in higher fares on higher demand routes, business class, luggage fees and so on.
4
No, I do not think the airlines made a profit on those flights. But I did nothing wrong or underhanded. I reserved my ticket a week or two before I travelled. I did not pay extra for preferential boarding or better seats. I did not even use Southwest's two bags fly free.
Deregulation, another great Republican idea! As with all their economic ideas it's the rest of us who get stuck with the bill.
3
Ah of course - you just left out Reagan's name. Alas for your argument, it occurred under President Jimmy Carter, so please point the finger (if it needs to be pointed, for that's what many in the public of both parties) wanted!
2
Eric: Airline deregulation was passed by a Congress with thumping Democratic majorities in both houses and signed by President Carter.
4
When you allow industries to become too concentrated, you stifle competition. Airlines exist, not to fly people, but to make a PROFIT flying people. The more profit the better. High air fares and no peanuts are what you get when you allow competition to wither. The airlines lobbied government in an effort to consolidate and it worked. The gravy train is on!
7
I can hardly believe this story was published by the NYT. Airline fares have nothing to do with fuel prices unless fuel prices are rising. Otherwise, the fare is whatever the market will bear - simple Capitalism 101. They may add a few cheap frills to increase the perceived value but the fare won't budge. Ask your marketing people if the price of the Sunday Edition is based on the cost of newsprint, or based on the highest price your customers are willing to pay. You might learn something.
9
Airfares are not the only cost, as some apparently like to think. Have you priced airplanes lately? Tens of millions and up PER PLANE, planes that are always in need of modernizing ("hey, why doesn't this thing have WiFi and screens in every seat, greedy airlines!"), maintenance, etc. - operations are very expensive and are more than just being gas.
2
Some people seem to support or at least accept Mr. Shkreli's very simple and profitable business model as one that is valid and applies equally to all industries including airlines and newspapers. Why on earth do people study economics and then continue at least two more years to get MBA's when the whole thing is so simple? Answer: It isn't so simple.
1
And the market will bear a heck of a lot when the government has neglected its obligation to regulate against monopolization to ensure the efficient functioning of the market for the benefit of all.
1
"Average ticket prices fell 3 percent in the second quarter last year." I don't believe that. At the same time that fuel prices dropped 70%, airfare from my medium-sized city increased 70%. The lack of competition says it all. It's time for Congress to investigate the airline oligopoly and price gouging.
5
Adjusted for inflation, the cost of buying a certified safe airliner is not cheap. Every year the cost has risen - inflation or not. Billions of dollars invested every single time an airline must replace (or even refurbish) its fleet. Then, there's the cost of constantly cleaning and maintaining that fleet, according to an inflexible safety schedule... that's something the flying public never sees done and probably very few even know exists. After spending tens of millions of dollars for each plane, all one has to do is turn it on and fly it 24/7 until it won't fly any more, right?
Who knew that even the wealthy spent their days (even Sundays!) complaining? I'm certainly glad my customers are average people who can actually afford to pay for what they purchase without griping, and without even using a credit card.
Who knew that even the wealthy spent their days (even Sundays!) complaining? I'm certainly glad my customers are average people who can actually afford to pay for what they purchase without griping, and without even using a credit card.
2
Deregulation initially brought a decrease in prices. Airline adjusted using a monopolistic hub/spoke system where possible. Where there is a monopoly, prices are high. Take Cincinnati: Delta has maintained a monopoly for a long time and thus extracts sky-high prices. The regulator and law enforcement do not intervene. The question is if Delta is in contempt of anti-trust laws or even worse has manipulated or bribed the local politicians. The answer most likely is yes on both counts but nearly impossible to prove.
I have nothing against the airlines profits: but it must be in a free market with a functioning competition. A functioning competition in any free market is the responsibility of the regulator and the voters. We must allow foreign airlines, revise the airport landing slot market, punish an airline when they adjust fare prices to prevent entry into a hub market.
I have nothing against the airlines profits: but it must be in a free market with a functioning competition. A functioning competition in any free market is the responsibility of the regulator and the voters. We must allow foreign airlines, revise the airport landing slot market, punish an airline when they adjust fare prices to prevent entry into a hub market.
1
People fail to see how this all balances out. Sure there is an oligopoly in this industry. Sure they overcharge. But essentially our country is just a conglomeration of various oligopolies, pharmaceuticals, beer companies, cable, automobiles, banks and more. So in actuality they just overcharge each other. But since almost all of us work for one oligopoly or another, it all balances out and everyone wins. Freedom!!!
The other day I had to fly Newark to San Diego. RT cost was $500, non-stop flight. We left on time, arrived on time, and suitcase was waiting for me. That's all I need. At the hotel, 5 minutes from the airport, I enjoyed a coffee, used my cellphone, and had dinner with some business people. And people are complaining here. Strange country.
6
The airlines have consolidated and they have, like the Mafia Dons of old, their own "turf" (hubs) and no others go there with enough frequency to provide real options to travelers.
There is no need to lower prices; you have no REAL choice as not enough can travel from say, Denver to Sacramento, to make competition a problem for United and Southwest - they both want $500 or more round trip for that route on any given day with few exceptions.
And the airlines now have the upper hand - and they know it. Isn't government deregulation wonderful?
There is no need to lower prices; you have no REAL choice as not enough can travel from say, Denver to Sacramento, to make competition a problem for United and Southwest - they both want $500 or more round trip for that route on any given day with few exceptions.
And the airlines now have the upper hand - and they know it. Isn't government deregulation wonderful?
3
Even venture capitalists are complaining about prices, they must be high! (Either that, or the new tech bubble is bursting.)
4
The U.S. airline safety record is the envy of the world. As a frequent flier myself, I believe I get as much or more as I give.
If the airlines are using my few extra dollars to buy newer, safer, greener aircraft; to train skilled pilots and mechanics; to hire flight attendants who care about my safety and comfort, then I say spend away.
With four major carriers fighting it out, monopoly is not on my list of concerns. Nor is collusion.
And no, I don't work for the airlines or their vendors.
If the airlines are using my few extra dollars to buy newer, safer, greener aircraft; to train skilled pilots and mechanics; to hire flight attendants who care about my safety and comfort, then I say spend away.
With four major carriers fighting it out, monopoly is not on my list of concerns. Nor is collusion.
And no, I don't work for the airlines or their vendors.
4
Or, in the case of United Airlines, the passengers don't even get peanuts!
1
"Free Snacks are Back: United Airlines to Introduce New Signature Snacks"
http://newsroom.united.com/2015-12-09-Free-Snacks-are-Back-United-Airlin...
http://newsroom.united.com/2015-12-09-Free-Snacks-are-Back-United-Airlin...
2
It's transparent collusion. The industry has, at very best, a legitimately founded fear of deflation; but it is collusion.
2
I know, I know, all the poor travelers who can't afford to fly home to see Grandma for Thanksgiving.
There are a couple of potential solutions to this problem: 1) Don't fly (it's bad for the environment) 2) Dig up the "Sherman Act" and find out why competition isn't bringing ticket prices down to where you think they should be.
#2, the most effective solution, is also the most unlikely. Thanks to Citizens United, the people with the most to lose are in control of the people who might make them lose it.
Ask Martin Shkreli.
There are a couple of potential solutions to this problem: 1) Don't fly (it's bad for the environment) 2) Dig up the "Sherman Act" and find out why competition isn't bringing ticket prices down to where you think they should be.
#2, the most effective solution, is also the most unlikely. Thanks to Citizens United, the people with the most to lose are in control of the people who might make them lose it.
Ask Martin Shkreli.
1
Why the Obama Administration has not used anti-trust laws to break up airline monopolies or at least prevent these mergers is the question. I travel a lot and its not just prices. Its also comfort and the constant tardiness and cancellation of flights as well.
1
Because the Justice Department has approved each merger and so it can't turn around and sue under the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.
3
I am confused, if there is no competition and this is a cartel, why aren't tickets sky high? But they are actually pretty much the same as the international carriers.
3
I understand and am O.K. with an industry that has finally found a business model that works. And that business model now includes tight rein on capacity, charging for a lot of extras, and better use of their large capital investments. But, having said that, what this new model is missing is a service orientation. Except for Southwest, rarely do attendants or gate agents smile, or listen, or go that extra mile to respond to legitimate requests for information, a beverage, a help with a bag, or just help. When I board a plane today, I feel like I am entering the same service orientation I find in a U.S. Post Office.
2
I fly a lot both domestically and to Europe. I avoid the big US companies like the plague that they are.
"Airlines maintain that consumers are benefiting from their improved financial performance..." They must mean if the passenger holds airline shares. All I find is an endless array of mean little ways to squeeze money and goodwill out of me.
"Airlines maintain that consumers are benefiting from their improved financial performance..." They must mean if the passenger holds airline shares. All I find is an endless array of mean little ways to squeeze money and goodwill out of me.
2
I've been flying Delta for YEARS back and forth between the East Coast and my family in Michigan.
Flights are fairly affordable (between 200-300 usually). Occasionally I can grab First Class for 500. I LOVE the option for Delta Comfort for only an extra 25$.
I have no air travel horror stories. And the last 4 years I've been traveling with babies and toddlers. Nope, no horror stories.
But then I also always check in in advance online, show up on time, and utilize either a small roller bag that fits under the seat or, if traveling with a larger bag, check it. If there is a weather advisory I call AHEAD of time and switch flights - Delta reps have always been helpful and accommodating. Just this past week I had to fly out of Hartford on Friday - even though Delta didn't have a an official "advisory" for Hartford, the rep on the phone agreed there was a lot of snow in the forecast and switched me to a later flight with no charge.
I've never been "bumped", never had to fight for over head space, and no, I don't mind paying fees for using extra services because that means when I DON'T use those services I don't have to pay.
Seriously, how incredibly privileged are we as a society when we are complaining that flying a padded chair cross country in a few hours, with free snacks, is a burden?
About 90% of complaints about air travel seem to come from people who are poor planners, over pack their carry-ons, don't check in on time, etc.
Flights are fairly affordable (between 200-300 usually). Occasionally I can grab First Class for 500. I LOVE the option for Delta Comfort for only an extra 25$.
I have no air travel horror stories. And the last 4 years I've been traveling with babies and toddlers. Nope, no horror stories.
But then I also always check in in advance online, show up on time, and utilize either a small roller bag that fits under the seat or, if traveling with a larger bag, check it. If there is a weather advisory I call AHEAD of time and switch flights - Delta reps have always been helpful and accommodating. Just this past week I had to fly out of Hartford on Friday - even though Delta didn't have a an official "advisory" for Hartford, the rep on the phone agreed there was a lot of snow in the forecast and switched me to a later flight with no charge.
I've never been "bumped", never had to fight for over head space, and no, I don't mind paying fees for using extra services because that means when I DON'T use those services I don't have to pay.
Seriously, how incredibly privileged are we as a society when we are complaining that flying a padded chair cross country in a few hours, with free snacks, is a burden?
About 90% of complaints about air travel seem to come from people who are poor planners, over pack their carry-ons, don't check in on time, etc.
7
What, you would expect personal responsibility from the entitled, whining American consumer?? Horrors!
1
Articles like this make me glad that I rarely have to fly. Between the high fares, crowding on the planes, waiting in line for the TSA, etc. flying has just become so unpleasant. I feel sorry for people who have to fly frequently and don't have any choice in the matter.
6
Been flying since the 1960s.Back then people wore dresses,suits and ties when flying.You also were fed with silverware and the flight crews were actually personable to passengers.Today,you are crammed into seats designed for 6 year olds,passengers wear pajamas and whatever else,plus you're lucky to get a free soda.Crews are normally rude and could care less about the passengers, especially on American.My rule today is if I can drive to a destination in 8 hours or less then I don't fly.Why endure the TSA grope and grab if you can avoid it.
4
And it was for the elite, at first class price levels. Be careful what you wish for.
The airline industry is so profitable because they are allowed to price gouge while nickel and diming us for many things that used to be included in the ticket price. No one likes to be taken advantage of. They also show contempt for and despise their own customers which is manifested in the unacceptable way they treat us. They disrespect, humiliate and rip us off because they can. Animals are transported more humanely. Now that they are making profits they should be forced to expand their routes, provide more planes and crews. That will help alleviate the torture they put us through.
3
It's not nickel and diming, it's expecting people to pay for the services they want.
I can travel for quite a few days by packing an extra pair of jeans, undergarments, a spare pair of shoes and a couple of travel dresses into a tote that easily fits next to my purse under the seat in front of me. I weight less than 110 pounds. I don't want to eat on the plane nor use the wifi; I bring a paperback book and am happy to pay $6 for a Heinekin at 38,000 feet. If I want peanuts I put them into my purse at home.
Why should I pay the same as someone who wants to add three bags to the weight of the plane, chow a full meal, surf the net midair or otherwise use up more resources than I do? Why should someone who doesn't drink booze pay more so that I could have a free beer? Pay for what you use and stop whining.
I can travel for quite a few days by packing an extra pair of jeans, undergarments, a spare pair of shoes and a couple of travel dresses into a tote that easily fits next to my purse under the seat in front of me. I weight less than 110 pounds. I don't want to eat on the plane nor use the wifi; I bring a paperback book and am happy to pay $6 for a Heinekin at 38,000 feet. If I want peanuts I put them into my purse at home.
Why should I pay the same as someone who wants to add three bags to the weight of the plane, chow a full meal, surf the net midair or otherwise use up more resources than I do? Why should someone who doesn't drink booze pay more so that I could have a free beer? Pay for what you use and stop whining.
2
Let's also be clear on the "low-cost" carriers such as Spirit: they don't save you that much money. After forking over extra for your carry-on, a checked bag (for which you are charged a much higher rate than the other carriers), the privilege of printing your boarding pass, and a single non-alcoholic beverage, you pay nearly the same as all the other major carriers. If you do not bringing anything with you to your destination, carry your drink on board (in your hand, of course!), and download the schlocky Spirit app in order to digitize your boarding pass, than you may save a little coin.
This isn't to mention the tactless practice of pitching their credit-card in-flight, or the fact that their seats are even tighter than competitors. Spirit is clearly trying to target the infrequent flier demo, as they continue to live by the company mantra: "Making travel grate again!"
PS: Yes, someone is going to tell me that they're the most profitable U.S. airline. I have two words for you: consumer desperation.
This isn't to mention the tactless practice of pitching their credit-card in-flight, or the fact that their seats are even tighter than competitors. Spirit is clearly trying to target the infrequent flier demo, as they continue to live by the company mantra: "Making travel grate again!"
PS: Yes, someone is going to tell me that they're the most profitable U.S. airline. I have two words for you: consumer desperation.
3
Airlines have created a travel experience that resembles being an animal in a Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO). They should be giving passengers antibiotic laced meals to deal with the recycled air that is full of flu viruses.
I took United Airlines from Chicago to LA during a mild spell of December weather. One flight was cancelled, and the other three were 2-6 hours late. Then they had passengers running all over the airports as they kept changing departure gates. Despite having flu and pneumonia shots, I contracted pneumonia from the dirty cabin air. And thanks to their compressed seating, I ended up with bruised tendons in my knees. (I'm only 6'1") United means you are physically united to, or pressed against, the passengers all around you
Adding insult to injury, the people who inspected my luggage neglected to re-lock the hardware on my laptop. It was DOA. No show, none on time, destroyed property, and no apologies.
I guess I should be thankful I wasn't put down like the a farm animal when I exited the cage......I mean plane.
I took United Airlines from Chicago to LA during a mild spell of December weather. One flight was cancelled, and the other three were 2-6 hours late. Then they had passengers running all over the airports as they kept changing departure gates. Despite having flu and pneumonia shots, I contracted pneumonia from the dirty cabin air. And thanks to their compressed seating, I ended up with bruised tendons in my knees. (I'm only 6'1") United means you are physically united to, or pressed against, the passengers all around you
Adding insult to injury, the people who inspected my luggage neglected to re-lock the hardware on my laptop. It was DOA. No show, none on time, destroyed property, and no apologies.
I guess I should be thankful I wasn't put down like the a farm animal when I exited the cage......I mean plane.
7
Time to go to JetBlue, Virgin, etc. For international flights, there's no point using the big American carriers. Cheapo outfits like WOW Air always beat them.
I may be lucky but I always find it easy to avoid the big four going everywhere I need to go.
I have a business trip coming up, Boston to Pittsburgh.
Jetblue: $153, and the lowest price from one of the big four is $238.
A site like Kayak will always should the big four underpriced by smaller carriers, and JetBlue is a million times more comfortable too.
I may be lucky but I always find it easy to avoid the big four going everywhere I need to go.
I have a business trip coming up, Boston to Pittsburgh.
Jetblue: $153, and the lowest price from one of the big four is $238.
A site like Kayak will always should the big four underpriced by smaller carriers, and JetBlue is a million times more comfortable too.
2
You have indeed been very lucky. I love the discount carriers. I love JetBlue. But more often than not, I am stuck with one of the big four.
Like many who have commented, I now choose to drive over flying if it is at all feasible.
Like many who have commented, I now choose to drive over flying if it is at all feasible.
2
Just flew JetBlue from NY to LA. They handed us free fatty snacks (take more!). And free water. All the films cost $5, more than Netflix at home! Seats were so tight I could barely move my legs. The flight cost me $600, more than I've ever paid for this route, and at the end of the flight the head attendant asked passengers to help clean up the plane by throwing out their trash, as the plane was returning to NY. It's Greyhound without the scenery.
2
The last time I used Greyhound. In enjoyed it - for the prize paid.
6
AND at the same time added more seats so even at 5'4" I can barely move in compressed seating. Time to treat customers better, including better fares and service!
3
The airlines think they can treat customers any way they wish and suffer no consequences because we are dependent on them. I once bought tickets for a family vacation that turned out to have one leg of the trip in First Class due to a deceptive option through the on-line purchasing site. I never buy First Class tickets because of the uselessness of the upgrade. It turned out we were bumped from First Class due to an over-sold flight. We were never refunded the extra cost of the First Class tickets...The airlines simply failed to give us what we paid for, and felt no obligation to refund the difference. We wrote letters and made calls, but there was no efficient process for dealing with this: We had to sacrifice our time to try to get a refund we were owed. It never happened. I suggest customers of the airlines refuse to collaborate when flights are oversold, and instead demand the seats they paid for. Don't offer to take later flights. Don't opt for the phony offers of a free flight voucher. Demand what you paid for. The airlines will learn that we aren't sheep and procedures will improve.
2
As long as the public keeps buying tickets, the airlines will do what they do - thumb their nose at customers while rewarding managers and shareholders. In other words they have absolutely no incentives to change - they know they have flying customers over a barrel.
Sometimes the choice to fly or not fly is simply not a choice at all if one for business or to visit a sick loved one. Flying is not like any other type of product where are you can shop around (well, you can to a certain extent) or do without.
Sometimes the choice to fly or not fly is simply not a choice at all if one for business or to visit a sick loved one. Flying is not like any other type of product where are you can shop around (well, you can to a certain extent) or do without.
3
You can do without it more than you think. Vacation closer to home. DRIVE. Call your parents or skype them.
How many business trips are really necessary in the age of Skype and internet and smartphones and video conferencing? My guess, maybe 2% of them.
Visiting sick loved ones? Again -- maybe 1-2% of all trips. Probably less, actually.
I give those a pass. Most trips are voluntary and because people like to travel, as fast as possible.
Stop flying. The prices will come down.
How many business trips are really necessary in the age of Skype and internet and smartphones and video conferencing? My guess, maybe 2% of them.
Visiting sick loved ones? Again -- maybe 1-2% of all trips. Probably less, actually.
I give those a pass. Most trips are voluntary and because people like to travel, as fast as possible.
Stop flying. The prices will come down.
3
Of the millions of flyers each day, how many are speeding toward "sick loved ones"? I get so tired of that trotted out as a reason people "must" fly. Most of the complainers are those who expect to fly a family of five to Disney for less than $500 or feel hard done by.
2
Concerned citizen – –
You overlook a huge category of non-business travel: visits among family members.
I don't think that Skype thing would quite get the job done in the eyes of my senior citizen mother, who lives too far away for road trips to be feasible.
You overlook a huge category of non-business travel: visits among family members.
I don't think that Skype thing would quite get the job done in the eyes of my senior citizen mother, who lives too far away for road trips to be feasible.
2
The secret is out. Capitalism and competition are soooo 20th century. Why compete when you can divide the spoils among a few mega-corporations and charge whatever the market will bear? This isn't news - it is a simple fact and it permeates more and more industries every day- from cable to insurance to broadband Internet. The age of the robber baron may be gone but the age of duopolies is in full bloom.
3
Another example of why we need government intervention and regulation in the so-called 'free market" system to put the brakes on greed and unethical behavior from for-profit corporations.
1
Does the New York Times reduce the price of an online subscription because reduced oil prices might be saving them money?
This article just seems like a piece for people to hit the airlines for all the things they do not like about them. I’m not a fan of the airlines, but they are not government entities. While there is a public good for access to medical care at a reasonable cost, does everyone deserve a “cheap” ticket so they can enjoy their dream vacation?
Many of the comments seem to be about feeling entitled. I just hope that some of the profits the airlines are making go to their employees.
This article just seems like a piece for people to hit the airlines for all the things they do not like about them. I’m not a fan of the airlines, but they are not government entities. While there is a public good for access to medical care at a reasonable cost, does everyone deserve a “cheap” ticket so they can enjoy their dream vacation?
Many of the comments seem to be about feeling entitled. I just hope that some of the profits the airlines are making go to their employees.
5
You may hope that if you wish. But in the absence of competition for labor, the employees have little power to ask for anything. And with little or no competition among carriers, nor do customers. If cartels can shaft everyone they deal with, and they have a service that is needed, they will do so. That's why anti-monopoly laws used to be enforced and mergers carefully scrutinized for the good of all stakeholders (as opposed to only shareholders, today's model). And your hoping for decency on the parts of the corporate powers is, while laudatory, a feeble hope indeed.
1
It appears it may be an instance of price fixing.
2
The airline industry is one which treats its customers as adversaries. As a onetime travel agent I witnessed such hostility as the case of an elderly, confused woman who bought a ticket from my agency and then went home and bought another ticket on the same flight for herself. I spent half an hour on the phone with a US Airways agent who wouldn't budge an inch, but who stuck to the theme that the passenger had to live with her mistakes. Rules were rules. Now with only four major airlines there is nowhere to turn. The price collusion enabled by the internet makes for something close to a monopoly. To the airline defenders- don't you remember a fuel surcharge when the price of fuel rose a few years ago?
8
Why would anybody expect fair business practice in America in this age of greed, lies and corruption. Deception and fraud is the standard practice of business in AMERICA these days, in fact it is the only type of business practices that are rewarded.
The age of the public advocates is past, and nobody seems to care enough anymore to do anything about anything. We have become sheep.
Here is personal story about American business practices in the year 2016. I went to get the new iPhone, I went to a AT&T kiosk at a mall, the arrangements for the phone went smoothly and as i was about to go with my new phone the salesman told me that i was going to receive a free Tablet, and he put it in my shopping bag, i didn't ask for a tablet or need one, but it was free so i said what the heck, a few months later while doing another transaction at an AT&T store they informed that i had two devices on my bill, my iPhone and the Tablet. I was being charged 10 dollars a month for the Tablet and in all the whirl of signing my contract for my new iPhone they had stuck me with a 2 year contract for my 'free' tablet. They also charged me a 40 dollar connection.
I called up AT&T angry about this obvious deception, a very nice rep, told me there was nothing they could do about canceling the 2 year contract, but she understood how i felt, Yeah Right.
The point to the matter is, that in the 20 tears i have been with AT&T nothing even close to this ever happened. But anything goes these days.
The age of the public advocates is past, and nobody seems to care enough anymore to do anything about anything. We have become sheep.
Here is personal story about American business practices in the year 2016. I went to get the new iPhone, I went to a AT&T kiosk at a mall, the arrangements for the phone went smoothly and as i was about to go with my new phone the salesman told me that i was going to receive a free Tablet, and he put it in my shopping bag, i didn't ask for a tablet or need one, but it was free so i said what the heck, a few months later while doing another transaction at an AT&T store they informed that i had two devices on my bill, my iPhone and the Tablet. I was being charged 10 dollars a month for the Tablet and in all the whirl of signing my contract for my new iPhone they had stuck me with a 2 year contract for my 'free' tablet. They also charged me a 40 dollar connection.
I called up AT&T angry about this obvious deception, a very nice rep, told me there was nothing they could do about canceling the 2 year contract, but she understood how i felt, Yeah Right.
The point to the matter is, that in the 20 tears i have been with AT&T nothing even close to this ever happened. But anything goes these days.
4
How many times have the taxpayers bailed out the airlines, and at what cost? Can we finally get some of that back, please?
3
Can you give us details on all of those bailouts?
2
Theoretically, I am okay with airlines reinvesting profits in their infrastructure and labor force before cutting fairs. Just looking at the charts shows that even the record profits this year have not made up for the years of losses for some of the biggest airlines.
But what I want to know is why European passengers get to have actual rights, get reasonable fairs and excellent service when they pay even more for oil. Even smaller U.S. airlines like Southwest and managed to provide free bags and reasonable service and still manage to post a profit even in the worst years. What are the big US airlines doing so wrong?
But what I want to know is why European passengers get to have actual rights, get reasonable fairs and excellent service when they pay even more for oil. Even smaller U.S. airlines like Southwest and managed to provide free bags and reasonable service and still manage to post a profit even in the worst years. What are the big US airlines doing so wrong?
8
They aren't getting as many taxpayer-funded subsidies from the gov't as foreign carriers do. Here we have the oddball expectation that flyers underwrite the cost of flying.
1
So how did that deregulation thing work out, anyway? Skipping over all the bloodletting in between, we've gone from a regulated monopoly to a deregulated monopoly. Love that free market.
8
US airlines are awful compared with international carriers. One of the main reasons that they are so bad is that many staff members that you encounter are surly and miserable. A smile costs nothing. Kindness costs nothing. Yet, we are treated like an inconvenience by many staff members.
A flight is cancelled-oh well, you're on your own.
Want a glass of wine and you've spent $1200 on a ticket to Europe- that'll be $7 please.
Look at Emirates or Lufthansa and what they offer for the same price or less. I don't know anyone who would choose American or United when they can fly Lufthansa or Air France or BA.
A flight is cancelled-oh well, you're on your own.
Want a glass of wine and you've spent $1200 on a ticket to Europe- that'll be $7 please.
Look at Emirates or Lufthansa and what they offer for the same price or less. I don't know anyone who would choose American or United when they can fly Lufthansa or Air France or BA.
5
Let"s not forget all the present and past employees who will never see their pensions which were stolen through bankruptcy proceedings years ago. A large proportion of these current wonderful profits are coming at the expense of tens of thousands of suffering retirees. Just saying.
18
To all squealing about airlines enjoying lower fuel prices: Have you suggested your boss pay you less because it's costing you less to get to work these days?
I thought not.
I thought not.
4
Your repetition of this idea suggests you've never heard of a "false analogy". It's a logical fallacy, worth nothing as an argument.
3
Nothing false about it. Exactly the same. I have seen many a person complain when their per mile reimbursement for using their own vehicle was impacted by soaring gas prices. but not a single one volunteer a reduction when fuel prices dropped. How is the analogy false? If you were an airline executive in charge of pricing, how would you determine what price to charge for a given route?
Sorry, friends. There is NOTHING you can do about this.
The various agencies are bought and paid for by the airline lobbyists, so we all lose. Eventually, someone will come in and bust the bubble, but they will be discriminated against by the big guys, and will soon either fold or be "absorbed." When it comes to profit, there is no number that is too high.
Grow up; we live in a capitalist system that is fixed for the wealthy.
The various agencies are bought and paid for by the airline lobbyists, so we all lose. Eventually, someone will come in and bust the bubble, but they will be discriminated against by the big guys, and will soon either fold or be "absorbed." When it comes to profit, there is no number that is too high.
Grow up; we live in a capitalist system that is fixed for the wealthy.
3
The airlines also curtailed the two-baggage system with 70 lb. in two bags, especially in international flights. That was a DOT requirement in the past. But when the domestic and foreign airlines reduced those two 50 lb. per baggage, DOT did not take any action at all.
2
Ignore that European airlines are heavily subsidized, particularly when buying aircraft manufactured on the continent. Ignore that in Europe, everyone pays taxes for the airports while in the US, most of the airport costs are paid by travelers, directly or indirectly. Cherry pick routes that have low volume and no competition for your claim that fares are high. Of course, the airlines shouldn't either make up a profit after several very tough years, nor buy more efficient, safer aircraft when they have the cash.
3
The falling oil prices have been huge but also the concessions made by tens of thousands of employees of these airlines. American Airlines filed bankruptcy with 4.1 billion dollars in cash in order to break unions, reduce pay and benefits, and freeze pensions. The executives continue to pay themselves extreme paychecks and bonuses and refuse to give or share profit with their employees. Passengers want cheap fares and employees want fair pay. But hey, some new generous offerings to flight attendants with American airlines, if you fly a trip over a major holiday and away from home such as Christmas, you get an extra $75 for the day. I don't think these airlines will be bullied, they are the bullies. This is corporate America.
4
Greed carries the day for the Airlines. There is no other explanation, given how cheap jet fuel remains. Deregulated capitalism at work? Inequality is taken for granted...but inequity towards passengers remains a question mark. Not nice!
3
When it's too expensive for regular folks to visit aging grandparents or look for jobs out of state, it makes me wonder if these high prices are against the common good.
3
I must have missed that portion of the law and constitution that says you are entitled to cheap airfare to visit grandma. The fact that people now live spread out across the nation does not mean someone else has to help pick up the tab to just hop on and off a plane when you feel like it.
As for the "too expensive for regular folks" somehow they are still packing planes. If you fly enough you will see jammed planes with families and kids (and seemingly all of their belongings they try to cram in the overhead!) not just fat cat business people, the image many seem to hold.
As for the "too expensive for regular folks" somehow they are still packing planes. If you fly enough you will see jammed planes with families and kids (and seemingly all of their belongings they try to cram in the overhead!) not just fat cat business people, the image many seem to hold.
3
Flying was a lot more pleasant when "regular folks" took the Greyhound, believe me. If only we could return to those days, I'd happily pay 3x the price for every trip.
If you want to see aging parents and don't like the cost of a ticket, take a few days and drive, or move closer to them or Skype.
If you want to see aging parents and don't like the cost of a ticket, take a few days and drive, or move closer to them or Skype.
1
George S --
You ignore that the law is what people decide it will be.
The rules by which corporations function are the result of human decisions. They are not natural law like gravity.
You ignore that the law is what people decide it will be.
The rules by which corporations function are the result of human decisions. They are not natural law like gravity.
1
Why the civil aviation regulatory body is not intervening when such oligopolistic price manipulation is hurting the air passengers?
2
The CAB was dissolved in the late 1970s.
2
i would guess like too many other regulatory agencies, they are captured and now beholden to the industries they were originally tasked with overseeing... in other words, corruption prevails in the land of awesome exceptionalism.
1
This is not news. There have been dips in oil prices before, but air fares just keep climbing. I haven't traveled overseas in 12 years because of the prices. Air space is for everyone on earth, not just for profit airlines. Europeans travel all the time by airplanes and trains, including high speed trains that are comfortable, fast and affordable. Why? Their income and social benefits are higher, as are their taxes, but their infrastructure is better and they can afford to enjoy it. Time to think about European-style socialism. The U.S. tried deregulating several industries and consumers got the shaft.
12
Adjusted for inflation, airfares are a fraction of what they used to be. A fraction.
A little honest economic analysis and historical perspective would help these articles immensely.
A little honest economic analysis and historical perspective would help these articles immensely.
2
Airlines aren't charities. Why shouldn't they charge what the market will bear? I don't notice too many planes flying around empty.
GM is very profitable these days too. Should they be mandated to lop $5000 off the price of their vehicles? Should Apple be forced to sell iPhones for $59? Why are people so screamingly entitked when it comes to air travel?
GM is very profitable these days too. Should they be mandated to lop $5000 off the price of their vehicles? Should Apple be forced to sell iPhones for $59? Why are people so screamingly entitked when it comes to air travel?
12
Funny you should mention GM. Another giant corporation (in addition to the airlines) that was saved by government bailout, or shall we say, Taxpayer Charity. Any business that functions on its own merits is free to charge whatever it wants. But if it survives only as a result of being rescued by the clientele it serves, then, contrary to your argument, it does owe something to that clientele in return.
3
Not "entitled" but as with other industries, customer service and pricing should be responsive to the customers.
1
You don't see many planes flying around empty because the airlines have reduced capacity to maintain high load factors. In Ithaca we've gone from five to three flights per day to Philadelphia (one of only three destinations from here) while the aircraft seating capacity has remained the same on these flights. If I have business on the west coast or in Europe I have no choice but to pay the high fares charged or spend many hours on the highway to get to a large city where there might be more choices. Airlines are not like car or smartphone companies--competition has been drastically reduced and there is no viable alternative (from here and many cities) to flying the four majors.
You are getting tired of the price gouging by the corporate greed, maybe it is time to look at the existing laws on the books for anti trust/ anti monopoly and anti price fixing. Maybe they are already in favor of these immoral capitalists.
Look around maybe you would find a presidential candidate who has consistently talked about fixing this mess. And it ain't Mrs. Clinton; during whose husband's presidency some of the loosening of our stricter governance of the Capitalistic systems were done.
Look around maybe you would find a presidential candidate who has consistently talked about fixing this mess. And it ain't Mrs. Clinton; during whose husband's presidency some of the loosening of our stricter governance of the Capitalistic systems were done.
7
I'm a Delta loyalist. Having family in Boston, but residing in the south for over 40 years, the r/t fares to BOS have rarely exceeded $225...with a lot of the cost going to taxes and fuel surcharges. No complaint here. But I will complain over the ludicrously economy r/t airfares from U.S. to Europe and beyond...and the dollar cost of paying for an "eligible" economy ticket in order to use miles for a business class upgrade.
4
It's imperative for the air transportation industry (all sub-sectors) to maximize operating profits from falling fuel costs after several decades of suffering huge operating losses caused by rising fuel costs.
2
To be clear... The airlines use an Air Traffic Control System, are governed by an FAA, Airports, ... that they DON"T pay enough for... the tax payer does! A windfall profit tax would be helpful here...
When US Air was swallowed by American. Our local airport carrier changed... On my very first flight afterward... I was deliberately made to miss my flight to SF because the ground crew had "New" instructions about baggage tags that they lost on my carry-on. I was forced to leave security and reclaim my carry =on bag. I was forced to overnight in SF because my carry-on tag was lost...totally unnecessary and the American Airlines fault...
American's response? Too bad , so sad. Rude and obnoxious.
The Airline Oligarchy/Monopoly needs new competition... RyanAir anyone?... or for that matter ANY other overseas carrier
When US Air was swallowed by American. Our local airport carrier changed... On my very first flight afterward... I was deliberately made to miss my flight to SF because the ground crew had "New" instructions about baggage tags that they lost on my carry-on. I was forced to leave security and reclaim my carry =on bag. I was forced to overnight in SF because my carry-on tag was lost...totally unnecessary and the American Airlines fault...
American's response? Too bad , so sad. Rude and obnoxious.
The Airline Oligarchy/Monopoly needs new competition... RyanAir anyone?... or for that matter ANY other overseas carrier
7
Tom. the airlines pay much more for airports here then they do anywhere else in the world. If you want Ryan-air type prices, increase federal subsidies so poor people can pay for your plane ticket.
2
The airlines use it yes, but so do the passengers and there are loads of taxes and government fees paid by both, from landing and gate charges paid by the airlines to "passenger facility taxes" and customs and security fees paid by passengers. Of course, one must wonder how much of that money goes where it's intended or, like the highway funds, are they just pots of money that gets squandered by governments on everything else while they then turn around and put on a poor mouth?
1
I can understand using higher profits to pay stockholders more, increase pay and purchase new planes but they must also consider customers.
2
Let's face it. US airlines have essentially become a Ryan Air model, noting the listed charge is just the start with expectations of surcharges. It is true it will be difficult to create true competition on domestic flights since only 4 carriers, but international flights are another story. Try flying a foreign carrier instead. Better service with modern or updated planes and since frequent flier miles are basically worthless these days due to all the restrictions, a drop in US carrier business overseas would send a message.
2
duhhh.... it's called the airline cartel. Our political system loves it. It means lots of jobs for the lobbyist on Kst, funding for political campaigns, lots of status and power to the heads of senate and congress committees etc, etc, etc. Expect more of the same, and possible a few more mergers because, yes, mergers are good for the economy. Big mega companies will declare that this next merger will take advantage of economies of scale, be more profitable and efficient. But then lots of layoffs will occur, airline tickets go up, and your seat gets smaller. Yup... oligarchs win all around.
BTW... notice how business class gets more ample, with finer selection of wines, movies, space, cuisine etc. etc.?
BTW... notice how business class gets more ample, with finer selection of wines, movies, space, cuisine etc. etc.?
4
Yes, because business fares are usually 2x or 3x economy fares. Have you ever noticed that things which cost more are usually nicer?
1
I fly regularly, for both business and pleasure and have no issues with the selection I have for airlines and fares. If people want to complain about airline fares and frills on planes, let them take the bus....and eat peanuts.
4
How dare the poor expect to be able to visit grandma when major corporations stand to gain so much from the kind of price gouging and service cutting enabled by monopolization of an industry?
Please government, if you're reading this, open our skies to foreign carriers! After living abroad for a bunch of years, coming home to fly Delta everywhere (admittedly the clear best of the worst) has been a rude awakening. The American carriers are corrupt and antiquated. They tried to end Exim Bank financing for non-US companies buying Boeing aircraft, which would put one of our most important companies and thousands of American workers at a huge disadvantage to Airbus. They complain about overseas airlines benefiting from government subsidies, but use our government provided infrastructure (terminals, runways, etc) on sweetheart terms. The big three want all the monopolistic protections of a utility, but they sure don't price that way! I know the DoJ was considering an antitrust suit a few months ago. Really hope something comes of it.
2
No need to take a snarky jab at Delta. I fly that airline regularly. It is the most dependable airline we have in America. Just try the others, if you are a risk taker. Friends on social media decry their experiences with other US airlines. I don't see such comments about Delta, ever.
5
Why would fares go down? The big 4 operate like a monopoly everywhere but at the major hubs where there is some competition. Regardless of which of the two airlines I choose at my nearest airport, the cost for the 45 minute flight to the hub is 60% higher than the cost for the subsequent 2 hour flight.
2
This piece could serve as a textbook example of journalistic ignorance of basic economics. The airlines are not a social service. When their costs fall there is no requirement to pass on the savings to customers any more than there is for bakers when the price of butter or flour falls. You can debate the ethics of some of aspects of their oligopolistic practices like capacity management and whether the FAA should do something to foster more competition but the pricing of any product is based on a complex mix of factors like cost, demand, market share goals etc.
8
John what part of monopolistic collusion is lost on us? The US Air Traffic control system is woefully under funded and foreign carriers are better serving their passengers than American carriers (I fly to Europe frequently and this egregiously clear) Prices are nearly half those of US carriers and there's more leg room. The European Air Traffic system is dramatically upgraded relative to its US counterpart... Should the US taxpayer pay for this while the gouging continues?
10
John...quite correct. However, aren't the airlines, in some ways, similar to a 'public utility? Most utilities are heavily regulated and are subject to rigorous pricing scrutiny. The airline industry is just as necessary to the national economy and the public well being as is the utility industry.
I fully agree with you that the airlines, and any other industry, has the right to recoup profits after a long period of being unprofitable . however, much of that unprofitability was caused by the inept management of its managers.
I don't care about snacks, meals, etc. I do care, however, an industry which operates almost without restraint with respect to its customers. for many (most?) of those customers, air travel is a necessity, and the airlines know this. In effect, the industry is punishing its customers and there is no mechanism to stop their practices .
It's not illogical to assume that the airlines will keep raising prices and fees along with reducing services. If I were the CEO of an airline, that's exactly what I'd do..until enhanced regulation stopped me.
I fully agree with you that the airlines, and any other industry, has the right to recoup profits after a long period of being unprofitable . however, much of that unprofitability was caused by the inept management of its managers.
I don't care about snacks, meals, etc. I do care, however, an industry which operates almost without restraint with respect to its customers. for many (most?) of those customers, air travel is a necessity, and the airlines know this. In effect, the industry is punishing its customers and there is no mechanism to stop their practices .
It's not illogical to assume that the airlines will keep raising prices and fees along with reducing services. If I were the CEO of an airline, that's exactly what I'd do..until enhanced regulation stopped me.
7
"......there is no requirement to pass on the savings to customers....."
And there's no requirement for the customers to shore up the airlines when they're ailing. Once that happens, we're no longer talking "basic economics", and your argument becomes invalid.
And there's no requirement for the customers to shore up the airlines when they're ailing. Once that happens, we're no longer talking "basic economics", and your argument becomes invalid.
1
$300 to fly from JFK to San Francisco seems like a bargain to me surcharge or no surcharge. Just checked Delta.com this morning. If you cherry pick routes that are in less demand it makes sense that those routes are much more inelastic in pricing response to gas prices.
3
As with so many industries, our government has signed off on a near monopoly situation (or call it an oligopoly). The object is to extract the maximum possible from consumers. This article is a good example of how it is done.
Remember, our politicians need our votes, but they serve their paymasters, not us.
Remember, our politicians need our votes, but they serve their paymasters, not us.
4
What a difference between US carriers and some foreign ones.
This past summer, I flew from Washington to the west coast and then on to Hawaii on US carriers. I had to pay baggage fees, and anything beyond water and a tiny package of peanuts, had to be bought.
From Hawaii, I flew to Japan, to South Korean to China and back to Hawaii on Korean Air. There were no baggage fees, and food was frequent and free.
One flight from Seoul to Jeju Island was about one hour in duration, and still, Korean Air offered real refreshments on such a short flight.
This past summer, I flew from Washington to the west coast and then on to Hawaii on US carriers. I had to pay baggage fees, and anything beyond water and a tiny package of peanuts, had to be bought.
From Hawaii, I flew to Japan, to South Korean to China and back to Hawaii on Korean Air. There were no baggage fees, and food was frequent and free.
One flight from Seoul to Jeju Island was about one hour in duration, and still, Korean Air offered real refreshments on such a short flight.
7
We, the taxpayers, bailed out the airlines to the tune of $15 billion when they were struggling in 2001. Now that they've returned to profitability, it would be only fair that we would receive some sort of dividend for our investment, preferably in the form of price breaks. Unfortunately, that's now how things work in the land of socialized losses and privatized profits. God bless America.
14
Sir, those were not taxpayer bailouts, but loans. And,, they were all paid back in full! The airlines do not owe the taxpayers a thing.
4
Only partly true, Howard. Of the $15 billion provided by the Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act, $5 billion was in the form of direct payments.
1
I remember paying "fuel surcharges" for years. Can I now have some "fuel discounts" please?
5
Part of the problem here is that any announcement about lowering of fares will surely have a negative impact on the airlines' stock prices. We all know that CEO's of publicly listed companies are often so obsessed with stock price (and their own personal material gain) and pretty much all decisions are aimed at boosting such. It's all about greed in Corporate America these days.
1
No question American airline travel is safer now than it's ever been. So they're clearly doing something right. Can't argue with that. But if they consider "larger overhead bins" and fancier entertainment systems as beneficial to the customer, I say NO NO NO. These will only add to our costs later on. Main thing: stop charging for luggage and forcing people to carry on. It takes an hour to get off the plane as it is. Large overhead bins will only encourage more people to bring all their baggage onto the plane. Getting off a large aircraft has become one of the added grueling experiences of travel. And the more "fancy" increments they make to airplanes only means that when the cost of fuel does start to go up, it will add significantly to the cost of travel to fuel and maintain all the expansions. I say use this time of cheap fuel to *streamline*. Americans are already entertained to death. We don't need fancier entertainment systems that eat up more electricity and fuel. Simplify air travel. Add a bit more room between seats (please!) but don't add frills. And "free snacks on longer trips." Are they kidding? I'd rather bring my own peanuts and not have to pay extra for my suitcase.
7
"Getting off a large aircraft has become one of the added grueling experiences of travel."
Then move to the Midwest, where there aren't any.
Glad I could help. Bless your heart.
Then move to the Midwest, where there aren't any.
Glad I could help. Bless your heart.
2
Most galling of all is the bogus "fuel surcharge" that British Airways still imposes on frequent-flyer award tickets to London or Paris from the U.S. - upwards of $500 per ticket when I checked it last week - and American Airlines' policy of matching this outrageous price-gouge on the same routes. A few members of BA's frequent flyer program sued the airline over this back in 2012; recently the plaintiffs sought certification of the case as a class action. This case should get more than the paltry media attention it has gotten (see for example http://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/252515-cert-.... I remember when you could get an actual paid roundtrip coach ticket from New York to London for that kind of money if you shopped around. Now it's close to $2000 on any of the major carriers.
1
The federal government has profoundly let us down. They've allowed merger after merger, with the result being little, if any, meaningful competition. And, even worse, the few remaining airlines now are so obviously colluding to keep capacities down and prices up.
Presidents Clinton, Bush and now Obama have seemed oblivious. Maybe a President Sanders will not only care, but do something. Sanders 2016!
Presidents Clinton, Bush and now Obama have seemed oblivious. Maybe a President Sanders will not only care, but do something. Sanders 2016!
And they can give incredibly poor customer service. Threaten you if you don't behave. Leave you sitting for hours with little explanation. If you have to travel or want to travel you take it.
8
I know this ages me but I remember when you could book a round trip flight and just confirm the first leg. When you knew your return date, you'd book it. I also remember that if you had to change your flight or cancel it, the cost was minimal. Now, it's something like $250 to change any portion of a trip. This is absurd. In what other industry do consumers not have the option of changing their mind without such a penalty? Yes, I know that I can buy a refundable ticket, but I don't think I should have to pay so much more for the privilege of being able to make a chance. It's not like the airlines couldn't find someone else to fill the seat. Most flights these days are almost always full.
This exorbitant change fee is not only like a type of blackmail, it is also dangerous to people's health. If someone is sick and flies anyway because of not wanting to or being unable to pay the extra fee, that person can easily spread germs in the ever more crowded airplane to both fellow passengers and flight crew. This practice should be stopped immediately.
This exorbitant change fee is not only like a type of blackmail, it is also dangerous to people's health. If someone is sick and flies anyway because of not wanting to or being unable to pay the extra fee, that person can easily spread germs in the ever more crowded airplane to both fellow passengers and flight crew. This practice should be stopped immediately.
4
A few years, I was forced to fly with a massive sinus infection. I was in agonizing pain just on the GROUND; imagine how I felt in a pressurized cabin for hours. But there was no option to cancel the flight, without losing everything I had paid, and I was broke. So I flew.
God knows what germs I spewed in the cabin, but the pressure forced the infection deep into my ear canal. My ear drums perforated from the infection. I was left completely deaf for weeks, and partial hearing for months. Thank god for my excellent ENT doctor, who saved my hearing (with massive IV antibiotics).
I have not flown again since then.
God knows what germs I spewed in the cabin, but the pressure forced the infection deep into my ear canal. My ear drums perforated from the infection. I was left completely deaf for weeks, and partial hearing for months. Thank god for my excellent ENT doctor, who saved my hearing (with massive IV antibiotics).
I have not flown again since then.
1
I'm not happy about reduced leg room and the incredibly uncomfortable new seats in most new planes, but having driven across country, I know that most cross country airfares are low priced in comparison. Also, try pricing a truly equivalent fare on a "discount" airline. My quibbles w flying are the customer service at the gate, which is quite over disinterested and rude (although there are many excellent gate attendants) and the passengers who pack steamer trunks as carry-ons (which are rarely disallowed) and then move my right size bag or crush it to store their cases.
3
It's funny that United is trying to introduce a sugary Dutch snack item in America at a time when people are being asked to cut their sugar intake.
1
I am flying for job interviews and need to arrive my best. Instead I arrive sleep deprived, and folded spindled and mutilated in every way, adding still more that I have to smile to wall paper over reality. Since employers aren't paying so much for candidate travel expenses, I'm actually paying for the chance at the position. It seems everywhere, in every way, business can soak their employees and customers coming and going.
2
Sorry, folks, but a lot of people I know have given up on flying and either stay home or drive. The cost of flying is way too high for those that don't make much money and unless there are some improvements regarding wages it will stay that way. Yes, driving is bad for the environment but people have the right to see family members and loved ones.
1
There's a perfectly good Amtrak station just a few miles from Mooresville, in Charlotte.
Unless the whole point of living in Mooresville was to avoid the scary "iinner city," wink wink.
Unless the whole point of living in Mooresville was to avoid the scary "iinner city," wink wink.
"Airlines Reap Record Profits, and Passengers Get Peanuts"
Yeah - I am not sure you understand how public companies operate - which - in itself - is rather surprising.
Carry out a simple exercise - what was the fare from NY to LA in 1979 and what is today - now do you see?
Hint: From 1979 to 2014, the U.S. CPI rose from 72.6 to 236.736 or 226 percent. That means that in constant Year 2000 dollars (in “real” terms), the average round-trip domestic fare fell from $441.69 in 1979 to $274.51 in 2014
Yeah - I am not sure you understand how public companies operate - which - in itself - is rather surprising.
Carry out a simple exercise - what was the fare from NY to LA in 1979 and what is today - now do you see?
Hint: From 1979 to 2014, the U.S. CPI rose from 72.6 to 236.736 or 226 percent. That means that in constant Year 2000 dollars (in “real” terms), the average round-trip domestic fare fell from $441.69 in 1979 to $274.51 in 2014
4
Four companies control 80% of the business in a "free market?" Right. "Customers THINK the airlines have been nickel-and-diming them": think? Baggages fees (great Southwest ads); seat fees; "fuel surcharges"; paying for food and beverages; paying for movies? To paraphrase Dorothy Parker, airline food was bad enough free, without charging a premium. International service has improved. Flying across the Atlantic 6-10 times a year, staff on United, Air France, and BA have been friendly, helpful, and courteous on every flight I've taken for the last decade. [Sad to say, on my infrequent domestic flights, the same has not been true.] I am also deeply grateful for the skill of the pilots, handling often extraordinarily difficult landing conditions. As a passenger, I would be a lot happier about paying fees and such if I felt the airlines restored some of the lost wages and benefits given up by employees in 2007-2010.
3
Two words: price fixing.
1
What would the Republican candidates for president says about this situation? Too much government regulation?
Deregulation in the 1980s created all of this. The customer gouging has been going on at least since the 1990s. And it's the rank and file customer, like me, in economy that really takes it in the chops. It's time to see airline for what they are, public utilities and regulate them appropriately.
3
Deregulation happened in 1978, under Carter. Under Reagan, we started seeing discount carriers like PeopleExpress and New York Air. I remember you could walk through security, get on an airplane, and they would charge your card aboard.
Just saying . . . from Uruguay (that little country wedged between Argentina and Brazil). Gas-at-the-pump here has cost well over USD 5 per gallon for many years--highest in the world. Yet, since the price of oil has dropped so dramatically, there has been no change in price of gas.
We, throughout the world, live in thrall to so-called bankers and one of their pet industries: petroleum. Never mind Banking's ancillary industries, such as the airlines, communications and the military. Focus on the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Fed and their cronies: complicit governments, their politicians and your lie-down-and-let-them-roll-over-me ignorance. (Yes, I'm talking about all of us, sitting quietly by while the oligarchs in all their forms pull our strings.)
We, throughout the world, live in thrall to so-called bankers and one of their pet industries: petroleum. Never mind Banking's ancillary industries, such as the airlines, communications and the military. Focus on the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Fed and their cronies: complicit governments, their politicians and your lie-down-and-let-them-roll-over-me ignorance. (Yes, I'm talking about all of us, sitting quietly by while the oligarchs in all their forms pull our strings.)
On a flight to Europe, I saw my flight attendant sitting on a crate in the kitchen area. I asked her why. The airlines does not even provide real seats to their employees. I hope the pilots get to sit in seats.
1
Congress allowed airline consolidation & only Congress can investigate & regulate it. But they won't because the Republican-controlled Congress, voted into office by our citizens, will never lift a finger against their corporate benefactors. This is at the feet of the voters who would prefer to spend time watching football than to lobby their government for redress.
1
Domestic air travel in the USA is both safe and reliable, although the distinction in the latter quality can be seen in public DOT records. That's the good news. Real competition in air fares is, in practice, stifled by limited resources (ATC and airport) and anti-cabotage laws, maintained quaintly by supposed domestic security concerns, and vociferous support from both airline management and unions. Changes in both areas, barring a dramatic and unwelcome downturn in the economy, are the only realistic solution
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa757_3.pdf
http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa757_3.pdf
2
Scales of efficiency have lead to what, greater executive perks.
Break em up.
Break em up.
1
So you're saying that there is nothing free about the "free market"? I'm shocked I tell you to learn that "free" markets are manipulated by the sellers to control access to goods and services and set high prices. Hey, if you don't like it, don't fly, or get healthcare, or drink water!
As with big banks, so with big airlines. The lack of real competition drives up prices while reducing passenger benefits.
1
Ahhhh, yes, the knee-jerk Liberal response--whenever any industry begins to make money--"They must be stopped!".
This is the same thing we heard about the oil industry for the past decade--look at those record profits--then need to be punished--and regulated.
The airline industry, as this column correctly points out, has suffered for decades, in an environment of very little profit. There have been layoffs, wage cuts, and bankruptcies. Well...every dog has his day--and now its time for airlines to make money--to rebuild, modernize--raise wages for employees, and save for the inevitable rainy day.
My definition of Liberalism for today: A belief system which worries that someone, somewhere, is making entirely too much money--and will refuse to share it--unless forced to.
This is the same thing we heard about the oil industry for the past decade--look at those record profits--then need to be punished--and regulated.
The airline industry, as this column correctly points out, has suffered for decades, in an environment of very little profit. There have been layoffs, wage cuts, and bankruptcies. Well...every dog has his day--and now its time for airlines to make money--to rebuild, modernize--raise wages for employees, and save for the inevitable rainy day.
My definition of Liberalism for today: A belief system which worries that someone, somewhere, is making entirely too much money--and will refuse to share it--unless forced to.
3
Wrong. The belief system of liberals states that in a free market regulations are necessary to ensure free access to that market. That is the case for the oil industry, the airline industry, the communication industry, the drug industry, the financial industry .... In contrast the conservative belief system states that regulation is poison because it would prevent the established monopolies and political power system to break. We liberals believe in the power of the free market. Regulation does not create winners and loosers as conservatives assert; it creates a level playing field so new entries to the market can flourish.
1
The last flights I took were from Newark to Zürich with a return from Barcelona back when United had merged with Continental. The United flight to Zürich was on a 757 that had not seen any renovations since it was built some 30 years before, and the Continental flight back was more comfortable.
To add insult to injury, the flight to Zürich had a non-working 4" screen on its "entertainment system" from the Year One and which took up the extra legroom I had purchased. The blanket was dyed bandage gauze which was sealed in plastic. When opened, the blanket let out a fume which stopped my breathing, and the oxygen canister for the coach compartment was empty, as was the one in business class. This represents an unairworthy condition and bad maintenance/pre-flight checks.
At least the trains to Treblinka were free...
To add insult to injury, the flight to Zürich had a non-working 4" screen on its "entertainment system" from the Year One and which took up the extra legroom I had purchased. The blanket was dyed bandage gauze which was sealed in plastic. When opened, the blanket let out a fume which stopped my breathing, and the oxygen canister for the coach compartment was empty, as was the one in business class. This represents an unairworthy condition and bad maintenance/pre-flight checks.
At least the trains to Treblinka were free...
1
"...Passengers get peanuts..."
Wow, they're bringing back in-flight meals!
Wow, they're bringing back in-flight meals!
2
The airlines are stockpiling cash to weather the next jump in oil prices. Some people feel the low oil prices are here to stay for the long term. Oil is one of the most needed commodities and the most volatile in pricing. Its not a matter of if oil will rise, but when.
3
It is a disgrace that the Obama administration allowed Southwest to take over Airtran. They do not enforce any laws re competition.
Where have all those great airlines of the past gone? Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, Braniff, National, and many more. They didn't make a profit and went out of business. Profit is not a bad thing.
1
So let's see, someone expected private enterprise with little regulation to be fair to its customers. What's wrong with this picture? Oh, never mind. Americans are suckers divided by emotional issues and video distractions and way too busy to look out for their own good. Go for it corporate enterprise. No one is really caring. Heck, you can even kill people and easily get away with it. Paying off a lawsuit is still cheaper than solving a problem and no executives will ever go to prison.
6
Having just returned from Rome and planning to go back in august (elderly mother), i was shocked at the "high season" fares for direct flights from Chicago. I've been told it's because of the pope's Jubilee. How charitable of the airline industry! One stop in Dublin and save $300, spend some hours in Turkey and save $450, there are options.
1
Free markets generally result in pyramid structures, where a few companies dominate their industry and wealth is concentrated with a few individuals. These companies and individuals then put up barriers to entry, for example by crushing start-ups with low fares on particular routes that are subsidized by high fares elsewhere.
Only governments can re-balance the adverse effects of free markets. Those who hold on to the myth that free markets somehow result in fair outcomes are delusional.
Only governments can re-balance the adverse effects of free markets. Those who hold on to the myth that free markets somehow result in fair outcomes are delusional.
2
We bailed these airlines out after 9-11, they have also marched into bankruptcy court and dumped their pension obligations on the taxpayers (PBGC), awarded themselves executive bonuses, and ripped off every traveller every way they can.
This is what happens when there is no market competition. Airlines essentially function as a cartel and there is no enforcement of anti-trust laws.
This is what happens when there is no market competition. Airlines essentially function as a cartel and there is no enforcement of anti-trust laws.
9
I never travel on US airlines anymore. They provide the worst aircraft, the worst food and the worst service amongst major airlines in the world. In 2013 I had the misfortune of flying American Airlines from New York to LA. My God! from check-in to boarding to the flight itself, I recall better service when I used to take the Greyhound bus from New York to Ithaca! And now, as I watch the current American political scene, particularly the Republican party, its candidates, its politics and its message on social issues, I am beginning to wonder if the degradation of US airlines is not merely reflective of life and society in America as a whole. I hope that I am wrong.
3
I don't see what the Republicans have to do with it. Perhaps you are just looking for a way to take a cheap shot?
Let them eat cake.
Don't want your lousy pretzels! Want FREE WIFI!
What moron dreamed this up? Couldn't they foresee the backlash? Whereas free WIFI - passengers who have their noses glued to their devices are happy passengers. I can and do bring my own healthy snacks on board but I can't bring my own WIFI.
Don't want your lousy pretzels! Want FREE WIFI!
What moron dreamed this up? Couldn't they foresee the backlash? Whereas free WIFI - passengers who have their noses glued to their devices are happy passengers. I can and do bring my own healthy snacks on board but I can't bring my own WIFI.
This points to the consolidation by airlines and price fixing. With low gas prices being low for almost two years now, why has there been an increase in air fare not a decrease?
So many baseless and naive comments. Airlines are private enterprises who's purpose is to make money and maximize shareholder profits and stake holder value and stability. They are not obligated to provide any service for free, especially for people who travel only a few times per year. I remember a time not long ago, when the carriers where hemorrhaging money because of high fuel prices and low margins. Were the readers who are complaining now, willing to take up a collection then to save the airlines then?
No, the airlines are no more required to provide discounted fairs and fees to travelers, than the New York Times has to provide the news for free.
By the way, I fly nearly every week and actual know the pain of air travel.
No, the airlines are no more required to provide discounted fairs and fees to travelers, than the New York Times has to provide the news for free.
By the way, I fly nearly every week and actual know the pain of air travel.
That is true, but what about being nice? Why must it all be so cut throat? Airlines are providing a service to PEOPLE not cattle.
2
I have been in the airline business since 1982. This is the first time -EVER- that airlines have been able to earn enough money to not be threatened by an immediate wipe-out, enough money to establish some cushion, begin the capital intensive upgrades that are both necessary and asked for by the public who often and repeatedly compare US airlines with those from abroad.
I've heard this excuse from airline employees before. 'We have to earn a profit. Foreign airlines are subsidized by their governments. " "Feel sorry for US airlines because they are all alone in the cold universe. " This is not entirely true. Have you heard of Easy Jet or Monarch Airlines. They don't get subsidized and they earn a profit. Each time I fly those airlines I'm greeted with a smile and I'm treated like a person. United Airlines? It's 'shut up and sit down for the next 5 hours'.
I find it amazing that when airlines were losing money no one cared that the employees were losing there jobs and pensions and now that they are making money there is something wrong with that. They could be like Amtrak and have to have government subsidies to keep them a float. In 1988 I bought my first truck it cost 15k the comparable truck today cost 35k and no one seems to care about those prices. Flight attendants at foreign carriers are on contract and when they get old ,30 something they are out. In the USA we call that age discrimination. If I had to work in the back of a plane and put up with the childish nonsense that a flight attendant has to deal with I would have at the very least punched someone. have you noticed that houses cost a little more these days and no one seems to care about how much they are gouged by the real-estate business.
4
Actually, the airline industry is subsidized through multiple funding streams by local, state and federal giveaways than anything Amtrak has ever dreamed of having.
3
Why no analysis of the Obama administration´s decision to allow the mergers that curtailed competition? And perhaps a discussion about what, if anything, can be done about it all now?
5
Many readers calling on the government to step in an do something seem not to realize that the government has stepped in and done something--namely, prevented foreign airlines from flying from one domestic American hub to another, thereby reducing competition and ensuring that prices remain sky high.
12
Just like an America doctor or teacher or lawyer cannot practice in Europe or Japan, why would we allow foreign pilots to work in the US?
I'd like to know why the consumers don't complain louder, sign petitions, something to be heard!! They are as bad as most of our politicians ...they keep squeezing more and more out of you. Charging for aisle seats, charging for a drink, charging misc., everything you can't see.... lousy service, unattractive and sometimes bored personnel, lousy food.... where will it end. I must say the foreign airlines are by far more pleasant. I do try to avoid american airlines but sometimes it is not possible.... always an ordeal. Sad to say it.
5
The unattractive personnel aspect is arguably the worst aspect of flying.
I now avoid flying to the extent possible. People are not designed to be packed in so close to each other for hours. Coach travel has become a form of physical and mental torture.
14
Totally agree! Forget the snacks, take out a row or two, and add a bit of padding to the seats!
2
Still waiting for an explanation as to why the writer of this article interviewed consumer advocates, so called, out the kazoo, but did not see fit to interview any airline executives or ask them for comment. Balance much? The only quote from an airline person was not provided for this article, the writer apparently looked on the internet and chose from what's out there.
3
Free peanuts? Just what I need since upgrades on American can be difficult when there are so few seats available. The price of a ticket doesn't seem to have had much effect on travel. Our last flight, SEA-JFK in mid-January, was fully booked.
1
Ummmm.....were any of the airline criticizers around when airline employees lost their jobs around 2009 because of the escalation of the price of fuel? That downturn was not short lived. Airline employees scrambled and tried to endure for many, many, months, some for years after that blast.
It wasn't a pretty sight let alone a pretty way to live. Many of those folks had been working with the same airlines for years, such as Midwest Airlines, who left their employees high and dry, then defunct.
If the airlines share their $$$ with the employees in this time of reaping in a harvest, which we all know will not last forever, so be it. But let us hope the employees do not get forgotten at the bottom of the barrel (no pun intended).
It wasn't a pretty sight let alone a pretty way to live. Many of those folks had been working with the same airlines for years, such as Midwest Airlines, who left their employees high and dry, then defunct.
If the airlines share their $$$ with the employees in this time of reaping in a harvest, which we all know will not last forever, so be it. But let us hope the employees do not get forgotten at the bottom of the barrel (no pun intended).
7
Although I live in a part of the country that would (reasonably) require me to fly if I wanted to leave and go anywhere besides BC, ID, MT, OR or WA, I haven't gotten on an airplane unless I absolutely had to (family b'nai mitzvot, weddings, and deaths) since the airlines started their bloodletting campaigns. Aside from assorted Nevada destinations, there are no decent fares to places over 500 miles from me.
It appears that nothing I do will make a difference so I choose to avoid being abused. It's amazing how many wonderful places I can go to by car or ferry (or both) or boat.
I just feel bad for folks in the Hawaiian Islands who really can't reasonably leave their state using another form of transportation.
It appears that nothing I do will make a difference so I choose to avoid being abused. It's amazing how many wonderful places I can go to by car or ferry (or both) or boat.
I just feel bad for folks in the Hawaiian Islands who really can't reasonably leave their state using another form of transportation.
5
If you live in Hawaii you don't really have to leave your state.
And frequent flyer programs are stingier than ever. No one in her right mind should remain loyal to an airline if the point is to earn free travel. Nor should sane people ever use an airline-linked credit card. Better to use cards that let you trade points for dollars to offset air fares. I'm a million miler on one airline and have been at the top of their status hierarchy, and I'm ditching them starting this year to freely shop air fares. For anyone who remembers flying in the 1980s or even the 1990s, the contempt of airlines for passengers today as expressed in the torture of air travel and the penuriousness of airlines toward their most loyal customers is just appalling.
7
Well, the US have by far the most expensive and least friendly mass transit system in the developed and highly-developing world. I was on vacation in California during the Christmas/New Year holiday week. I need to go from San Francisco to Los Angeles for the second half of the vacation.
Flying is the fastest but have to get to the airport from city center, get pass security, wait for boarding/unboarding when I get to LA not to mention very expensive during the holidays. Train is cheaper than flying but not as much as I expected and would take 11 hours or so. Bus is even cheaper especially from the private bus companies and only takes 6 hours or so.
At the end I decided to rent a car from SF and drive to LA myself because it would come out the same as round-trip tickets on bus (3 of us) and I have a car in LA for 5 days. It would have taken about as long flying and I really didn't care for the cramp seat, loud engines and the lack of peanuts.
Flying is the fastest but have to get to the airport from city center, get pass security, wait for boarding/unboarding when I get to LA not to mention very expensive during the holidays. Train is cheaper than flying but not as much as I expected and would take 11 hours or so. Bus is even cheaper especially from the private bus companies and only takes 6 hours or so.
At the end I decided to rent a car from SF and drive to LA myself because it would come out the same as round-trip tickets on bus (3 of us) and I have a car in LA for 5 days. It would have taken about as long flying and I really didn't care for the cramp seat, loud engines and the lack of peanuts.
4
Fares are something I watch continuously. Recently the great Trans-Atlantic fare rip off has become even more egregious. United flew to my local airport to JFK. It was a low level 757-200 with rubbish seats and surly staff and an $1000 price tag for basic no frills economy. Then along came American Ailrines doing the same flight almost at the same time of day. Prices fell 20%. British Airways tries to out- price its main rival on many routes where it uses A380's because it has to fill the seats - after years where you could gurantee the same journey on AA, BA, United or Virgin or Delta would be made up of different amounts but equal the same total within a penny or so. For the most part little changes. Huge joint ventures like BA-AA and Delta-Virgin tie up monopolistic practices into a legally sanctioned right to charge what they like when it suits them. Competition is minimal and they have the temerity to accuse the ME3 of unfair practice. The try to stifle low cost competition like Norwegian from getting a foothold, they actively work against anything that challenges their legal monopolies. The consumer as always is the looser.
3
Not only are we passengers not reaping the benefits of the airlines' reduced margins from cheap fuel - their employees don't appear to be, either; here in France, layoffs, hiring freezes, unsatisfactory pay and conditions continue for both ground and air personnel ...
4
"For now, airline executives have been clear about their priorities: to show improvements in their financial performance."
United Airlines CEO compensation: $12.8m
Delta Airlines CEO compensation: $17.6m
American Airlines CEO compensation: $12.3m
Southwest Airlines CEO compensation: $5.0m
So, what was their priority? Note that these numbers are for 2014, when profits were much smaller.
United Airlines CEO compensation: $12.8m
Delta Airlines CEO compensation: $17.6m
American Airlines CEO compensation: $12.3m
Southwest Airlines CEO compensation: $5.0m
So, what was their priority? Note that these numbers are for 2014, when profits were much smaller.
12
Only 5 million? The SouthWest Airlines CEO must surely be asking why he is so poorly paid.
Reads like good news all around. Still, way too many people flying for work because they hate headphones, mics, video screens, daily commutes, lunch boxes, pesky bosses, wives, husbands etc. How about taxing corporate travel by 10% and using the money to repair roads, strengthen bridges etc.? That's 10% x $310 billion spent 2015 on business travel = $31 billion. A much-sought after $ number these days...
5
Perhaps the writer should learn more about the subject. Airlines (at least SWA) pay for fuel way in advance. The current price has not affected the price they paid for fuel currently used. However they have been having good sales.
They have always served snacks and do NOT charge for bags. They have consistently made a profit every year. Don't lump them in with the other 3 regarding bankruptcy, extra charges and bad customer service.
They have always served snacks and do NOT charge for bags. They have consistently made a profit every year. Don't lump them in with the other 3 regarding bankruptcy, extra charges and bad customer service.
1
Just how the corporatocracy want i! Airlines make record profits and we passengers sit in abject discomfort and are nickled and dimed for everything on the lousy flight. Any one home in Congress?? Nah!
1
This is this is what some politicians herald as the "free" market--free for some to do whatever they want, irrespective of the actual value provided or the consequences to the consumer, society, or planet. It's just a question of your values and priorities. How much can you extract from others? Also known as "selfish."
1
Baggage fees are why the airlines are reaping huge profits. Baggage fees were intended to help supplement the struggling airlines revenues not for them to make money off of us. I don't mind paying a nominal baggage fee but if they're not struggling I don't feel it's necessary to gouge us for taking us to our destination
1
American Airlines does not even give you peanuts.
When your seat is stuck, you sit for 12 hours locked in a plane a short distance from the gate, when the personnel glare at you for stretching your legs to avoid blood clots, and security - after 911 - has more holes than Swiss Cheese; which, with ham on fresh bread you won't be getting, look to the clouds for the face of Ronald Reagan. Oh, and the private jets speeding past. Irrespective of the politics of those inside, they are his spawn. Obscene profit with no social benefit his legacy.
5
Airlines are required to have a tarmac delay plan. What does Reagan have to do with it?
In Europe we have High social costs to do business, lots of taxes, competition for short distance travel from trains and busses, yet Ryan Air, Easy Jet, German wings, Air Berlin and other 'cheap' airlines are making profit, providing good, if no frills, service, on time flights, all at much lower prices per mile than the big four in the USA. In the USA, you have monopoly created by the 'free enterprise' system, which is just 1900s capitalism. In Europe we have the European Union regulating the airlines, requiring real competition; surprise surprise, it works !!
235
Does everyone still need to keep on saying "surprise, surprise"? The Gomer Pyle show ended 50 years ago.
1
EasyJet has the worst customer service I have ever seen -- worse than Spirit if you can imagine. I'm not sure if they should be our point of comparison. RyanAir was solid though.
I once flew Ryan Air and would go to great lengths to avoid this cattle car form of transport - I'm short and even my knees touched the seat in front of me; a truly horrendous experience.
Many foreign flights offer snacks, drinks, and friendly service on trips that are only 45 minutes! Our airlines in America are only concerned with keeping costs as low as possible and gouging passengers as much as possible. There is no incentive for them to pass savings on to flyers because there is no competition. This is the fault of our government's marriage to big business! I, too, try to fly with foreign carriers, which are much more service oriented!
4
Unless it involves crossing a large body of water, or having to be there almost immediately, my jet is parked in the garage.
5
Complimentary stroopwafels?
I would prefer ending the ban on European carriers for interstate flights. That would bring prices close to those in Europe and represent an extraordinary boon to US taxpayers.
I would prefer ending the ban on European carriers for interstate flights. That would bring prices close to those in Europe and represent an extraordinary boon to US taxpayers.
4
The main problem today is that the Big merged airlines have made air travel MISERABLE! I've been flying Houston to Detroit 3 to 4 times a year for 8 years. When I flew Continental it was great. Full sized planes, knee room, plenty of restrooms, large overhead bin space, sensible, fast boarding, pillows, blankets, food, and TV's for rent in seat backs.
THEN came UNITED!
1. United changed boarding to slow and confusing. Tough luck if you reserved an aisle seat 8 weeks in advance, or reserved a row for you and your children. Aisle seats Now board Last and your 2 children will be split up to board window first, then middle, and last the parent in aisle seat.
2. Full sized planes switched to baby planes. United should change it's name to Mesa Airlines. Mesa Airlines now fly all the flights between Houston and Detroit. 2 seats on each side or worse. With the majority of seats having inadequate knee room.
3. Change in United's gates at airports. Since United is now mostly Mesa and United Express. Their gates are at the farthest ends of airports.
With not one gate but 12+ gates at each end. There is not enough seating available for all those flights, so lots of people have to stand.
4. The latest inconvenience and cost cutting is at check-in area. At IAH, there is now only 1 check-in employee. You are directed to computer to check-in your own bags, correctly tag them and take them to conveyer belt.
5. 60-80 passengers can only use the one bathroom in back of baby planes.
THEN came UNITED!
1. United changed boarding to slow and confusing. Tough luck if you reserved an aisle seat 8 weeks in advance, or reserved a row for you and your children. Aisle seats Now board Last and your 2 children will be split up to board window first, then middle, and last the parent in aisle seat.
2. Full sized planes switched to baby planes. United should change it's name to Mesa Airlines. Mesa Airlines now fly all the flights between Houston and Detroit. 2 seats on each side or worse. With the majority of seats having inadequate knee room.
3. Change in United's gates at airports. Since United is now mostly Mesa and United Express. Their gates are at the farthest ends of airports.
With not one gate but 12+ gates at each end. There is not enough seating available for all those flights, so lots of people have to stand.
4. The latest inconvenience and cost cutting is at check-in area. At IAH, there is now only 1 check-in employee. You are directed to computer to check-in your own bags, correctly tag them and take them to conveyer belt.
5. 60-80 passengers can only use the one bathroom in back of baby planes.
1
We need an Uber for planes. Private jets flying from say San Francisco to New York can make a little maintenance money charging passengers.
When oil prices spike, the price-rise is immediately reflected in the airfares. When oil prices plummet, airfares remain unchanged. It's called gouging.
3
Do you work for less when YOUR expenses temporarily drop?
Are you seriously contending that an individual's salary is analogous to corporate pricing strategies? You must certainly be a Trump voter.
1
Airlines in America are really awful, especially in comparison with airlines like Singapore Air, Garuda Indonesia, etc., The American airline staff have no sense of service at all. They could use some pointers in this department!
2
The worse thing that happened to the Commercial aviation industry, was the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Airlines were free to venture out into markets they had not established any presence or identity. Airlines were not prepared to create a business model out of the freedom deregulation brought. Airline profits are made on Ancillary services like seat assignment, baggage fees and paying to be first in line. I can recall working flights in 1979 with no passengers; simply because my airline decided to venture into routes and serve cities that already had an established allegiance to other airlines. Airlines also have built-in fee increases typically during the spring "build-up" and during the fall; essentially all year. Airlines have always cried high oil prices to justify outrageous ticket prices but never lowered fares when the price of a barrel of oil decreases.
Reverse competition is the norm: In the old days if Airline A served a Continental Breakfast- Airline B would one-up that and serve a hot meal. If Airline C served a snack for lunch, Airline D would serve a hot lunch. Airlines have run over themselves to the race to the bottom. Anyone recall, TWA, Pan Am, Braniff, Western, PSA, People Express, Piedmont, Northern, Southern? Anyone recall Flight Attendants serving a choice of three hot entrees in coach; pulled out of those wall-mounted 500 degree ovens and literally running the aisles: There is no competition and this is a typical result in American Business.
Reverse competition is the norm: In the old days if Airline A served a Continental Breakfast- Airline B would one-up that and serve a hot meal. If Airline C served a snack for lunch, Airline D would serve a hot lunch. Airlines have run over themselves to the race to the bottom. Anyone recall, TWA, Pan Am, Braniff, Western, PSA, People Express, Piedmont, Northern, Southern? Anyone recall Flight Attendants serving a choice of three hot entrees in coach; pulled out of those wall-mounted 500 degree ovens and literally running the aisles: There is no competition and this is a typical result in American Business.
79
As an Atlantan I have to point out you left Eastern off your list of now defunct airlines
2
I remember free tiny bottles of wine with certain meals...
Yes and that was before de-regulation and they could not compete on price only on service and amenities. You may also recall that most Americans didn't fly in those days because of the high fares.
My memory may be shaky, but didn't the US Attorney General once have an Anti-Trust Division and didn't we have regulatory agencies which protected the public interest? Perhaps the only folks who rejoice in this distant memory are the army of lobbyists who seem to run the Government under the umbrella of the "Citizens United" and too many
participants in the Presidential debates.
participants in the Presidential debates.
4
Why is it that Republicans continually claim that "deregulation" (i.e. abolishing all government regulation) will automatically spur competition and growth when it is so obvious from situations such as these that there is little or no competition in major markets, largely thanks to the complicity of prior administrations in mergers designed to eliminate competition? If you want to lower airfares open up landing slots to foreign airlines at major airports
4
Deregulation is a fraud.
4
I was not surprised with the Bush presidency allowed unfettered airline industry mergers (e.g., Delta/Northwest) but the Obama presidency has allowed it to go too far (i.e., United/Continental & recently America/US Airways). The result is higher air fares despite the bottoming of oil prices, fewer flight options and worse service! I fly for business every 10 days and can report that the new American Airlines is happily gouging me 30-40% more for the same route that I used to fly with US Airways. This sure looks like restraint of trade to me.
7
Pan-Am to Europe many times in the 1960's.
Expensive yes, but not that expensive.
Stewardesses in lovely dresses, well coiffured hair.
Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner on china plates/glassed/silverware.
Roomy seats, well dressed and behaving passengers.
Where has it all gone and why has it all gone ?
Expensive yes, but not that expensive.
Stewardesses in lovely dresses, well coiffured hair.
Breakfast/Lunch/Dinner on china plates/glassed/silverware.
Roomy seats, well dressed and behaving passengers.
Where has it all gone and why has it all gone ?
1
You had to have a lot of money to go then.
I used to work at a couple of major airlines. The merger thing is partly about saving some money by spreading their system bigger. But mainly, it is about eliminating competitors. Airlines are most comfortable charging about $800 per roundtrip. I was involved in pricing. The airlines hate price wars with a passion. They lie awake at night dreaming of how to eliminate price wars and reach a stable oligopoly, with everybody charging $800 and making a killing. You will notice that many calm waters exist around the country where no price wars happen anymore. You cost? $800. This is 100 percent because of mergers. The gambit worked.
My advice, consider breaking up these monopolies whenever "barriers to entry" appear to exist. It's not okay. And there are laws on the books to prevent all this. The DOJ screwed up and they themselves are well aware of it (now that it is too late).
My advice, consider breaking up these monopolies whenever "barriers to entry" appear to exist. It's not okay. And there are laws on the books to prevent all this. The DOJ screwed up and they themselves are well aware of it (now that it is too late).
4
After a decade of losses, bankruptcies, and cutbacks, how dare these greedy companies restructure their businesses to actually STAY in business. The headline should be corrected to say "Airlines Reap Record Profits, and Passengers Get New Aircraft, Terminals, and Amenities."
Looking at the graph, American has still only barely recovered from all the years they continued to bleed red ink. How could they afford peanuts before now?
Looking at the graph, American has still only barely recovered from all the years they continued to bleed red ink. How could they afford peanuts before now?
1
Funny how deregulating the airlines has worked. There are less airlines now, with more near monopolies, than there were before deregulation. At some airports (Denver for example United is over 80% of the business), you have limited choices.
9/11 was an excuse for the airlines to create the current situation. The over abundance of add on fees, and fare categories, that takes a CPA to understand. Crowded planes that make one feel like they are flying in a sardine can. And, rude staff from the point you walk into an airport to the time you leave one after arriving at your destination. The once glamour of flying has been reduced to something lower than the equivalent of riding a New York City Subway in the 1970s. Oh yeah, while you are within the confines of our aviation system, do not dare say anything that might "upset" flight crews or gate attendants; lest you will be arrested for violating national security.
Just for leg room, I have taken to riding first class, because United only flies cramped region jets between Denver and Columbus, Ohio. A three hour flight. With first class gives you is a comfortable seat, with one lavatory in the back of the plane, and a meal consisting of a stale snack box. Better than coach, but far from "Fly the Friendly Skies of United" ads of the 1970s.
Too bad this nation is so backward when it comes to its transport system. Even China has high speed rail, as does Europe. While this country, you now get a bag of peanuts.
9/11 was an excuse for the airlines to create the current situation. The over abundance of add on fees, and fare categories, that takes a CPA to understand. Crowded planes that make one feel like they are flying in a sardine can. And, rude staff from the point you walk into an airport to the time you leave one after arriving at your destination. The once glamour of flying has been reduced to something lower than the equivalent of riding a New York City Subway in the 1970s. Oh yeah, while you are within the confines of our aviation system, do not dare say anything that might "upset" flight crews or gate attendants; lest you will be arrested for violating national security.
Just for leg room, I have taken to riding first class, because United only flies cramped region jets between Denver and Columbus, Ohio. A three hour flight. With first class gives you is a comfortable seat, with one lavatory in the back of the plane, and a meal consisting of a stale snack box. Better than coach, but far from "Fly the Friendly Skies of United" ads of the 1970s.
Too bad this nation is so backward when it comes to its transport system. Even China has high speed rail, as does Europe. While this country, you now get a bag of peanuts.
10
Since the baggage surcharge was put in to offset the cost of fuel when petroleum was at $100, it is obligatory for airlines to rescind this charge now that it is around $30. At the very least, not to charge for the first baggage. Congress should immediately have a hearing on this illegitimate and predatory charge.
5
The current Republican Congress? Surely you jest.
2
Nonsense. Weight is the biggest variable in the cost of hoisting an airliner aloft. Those contributing more weight should pay for it. If you don't want to, don't pack so much.
How is it that so many seem to believe that airlines should be obligated to continue forever providing service at a loss? Airlines are like any other business -- they need to make money to stay in business. The flying public cannot expect airline investors to endlessly subsidize their travel. After much turmoil in the industry, with many bankruptcies, we have finally arrived at an industry structure that appears to be workable, with industry participants finally making money. The current profits are "large" only in comparison with the unsustainable past -- a very small reduction in current fares would erase those profits and put the industry right back where it was.
4
The reason why so many are asking for that is that the times comment boards have become a haven for haters of profit-making business. This is not a news story, but a way of riling up the leftist populists. There is no news in this story, and oddly, it is not labeled as an op-ed. So in come the commenters, many trying to puff themselves by saying they have flown millions of miles or have been "behind the counter" without the slightest bit of evidence.
Corporations and economists told us for years that the free market capitalist system was good for consumers as it always created competition for their business. Now, in the US, the climate has so favored the corporations that they have merged, tweaked, morphed, and trimmed to their exclusive advantage - cutting salaries and benefits for employees, and services and value for their customers. What's left is shockingly profitable corporations, and a climate where unending profit is the only goal really worth pursuing.
Ironically, corporate growth really doesn't even do it for the economy anymore, as the fundamental driver of the economy is not the corporation - it's the employee-consumer-customer... and they have been beaten down to nothing. Just consider: ten years ago, it was entirely understood that there was no such thing as a strong economy without a strong confident consumer base, centered in the Middle Class, with almost all gainfully employed. Now... we don't even have much of a Middle Class anymore, and few of our current majority leaders in Congress care. So much for a strong America!
We are on the fast express train to becoming a broken third world economy. Congress does not seem to care, as long as we still have far more planes and bombs than everyone else.
Ironically, corporate growth really doesn't even do it for the economy anymore, as the fundamental driver of the economy is not the corporation - it's the employee-consumer-customer... and they have been beaten down to nothing. Just consider: ten years ago, it was entirely understood that there was no such thing as a strong economy without a strong confident consumer base, centered in the Middle Class, with almost all gainfully employed. Now... we don't even have much of a Middle Class anymore, and few of our current majority leaders in Congress care. So much for a strong America!
We are on the fast express train to becoming a broken third world economy. Congress does not seem to care, as long as we still have far more planes and bombs than everyone else.
8
Who ever said organized crime was limited in scope. The airlines have conspired in someway brilliantly, to nickel and dime the general public to increase record profits without the least concerns on how it treats its own customers. The most concerning fact here is how the customer is disrespected by cramming them in like sardines on long haul flights, taking seats in coach that were at one time first come first serve to how much more do you want to pay for a few centimeters of extra space, to sorry bring your own meal pal. But after all, how come the airlines seem to suffer from amnesia when it comes to the moment of realization that without customers what airline would survive? I think the best way to beat this monopoly is by not flying at all for 6 months, call your loved one or do a video conference at work, write a long letter instead (something most people have forgotten to do), take vacations by car and finally thumb you nose to the would be terrorists, the TSA, the phony taxes and everyone else out there trying to rip you off. See how a 50-70 percent drop in passenger revenue will affect the airlines in those 6 months and finally get the satisfaction for all those times you suffered by being stuffed in a seat to small, starved and mercilessly charged for everything under the sun. Wouldn't that be a glorious way to show them finally who the customer really is?
9
Remember 9/11 ? Remember the chaos that ensued after that? Perhaps much of the following was to be expected. Yet, who capitalized on that chaos? Who profited handsomely on the chaos, using security and oil prices to charge more for everything, remove everything else, and let's not forget, overbook and frequently cancel at a whim?
Now let's talk about how we subsidize this marvelous mode of transportation, shall we?
Now let's talk about how we subsidize this marvelous mode of transportation, shall we?
4
People also forget that Treasury gave $4.6 billion cash to the airlines in the name of "stabilization."
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ42/pdf/PLAW-107publ42.pdf
Including "airlines" like UPS and Fedex. Not to mention zombie alrlines like "TWA Airlines LLC," which American had bought and was absorbing.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/92214.pdf
(page 19)
The funny part was that Fedex sued FAA because it didn't get enough cash. Why is this funny? Fedex's chairman, Fred Smith, is a major funder of libertarian "think tanks."
http://www.cato-unbound.org/contributors/fred-l-smith-jr
Many remember the loan guarantees, but few remember the cash.
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ42/pdf/PLAW-107publ42.pdf
Including "airlines" like UPS and Fedex. Not to mention zombie alrlines like "TWA Airlines LLC," which American had bought and was absorbing.
http://www.gao.gov/assets/100/92214.pdf
(page 19)
The funny part was that Fedex sued FAA because it didn't get enough cash. Why is this funny? Fedex's chairman, Fred Smith, is a major funder of libertarian "think tanks."
http://www.cato-unbound.org/contributors/fred-l-smith-jr
Many remember the loan guarantees, but few remember the cash.
2
Here's a radical idea. I believe all companies that provide essential services should fall into one of two categories, employee owned or non-profit. Imagine a world where airlines, health insurance companies, utilities, hospitals, ambulance companies, would not be slaves to generating quarterly profits for outside shareholders.
7
Yes. They will all be as efficient as the post office and have the courtesy of its employees. As profitable, too.
Have you ever noticed that when you are treated at a non-profit hospital you bill is not lower than at a for-profit hospital despite the fact that they pay no property taxes. Their CEOs make as much money as the for-profits, and they have enough surplus cash to pay Michelle Obama $350,000 for a part time gig. Non-profits are even more corrupt than for-profits.
The airline industry has always been cyclical and it will always be cyclical. Although many airlines are making record profits now, there will be a time in the not too distant future when they will be losing money. During this profitable time, the savvier airlines are paying down debt and investing in newer equipment among other things so that when the cycle reverses (and airlines are losing money) they can remain in business and still haul you folks around at reasonable prices. The vocal whiners out there have no idea how complicated, risky, and unprofitable the business has been since inception. U.S. carriers are not subsidized like many of foreign "premium" carriers are (which has obvious implications). Most U.S. carriers do a fantastic job considering such a complex, dynamic, risky, capital intensive business it is. T
3
I fly 2-3 times a week, now 95% of the time on Southwest, but for 20 years on UA where I racked up over 2 million miles.. While the major carriers cut back on services, Southwest held the line of up-charges for checked baggage and charges $0 to change a ticket. While those fees area big deal, equally important is upon exiting the plane I get a thank you and a smile, simple courtesies the big carriers lost along the way.
10
I don't see why so many commenters are complaining about the American airlines. When the mob pays off the cops, they expect to make a good profit and be protected. This is just business as usual.
And the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
The average American who wants to fly is at the mercy of collusion, cronyism, cartels, Congressional convenience, government connivance, and Justice Department complicity. Airlines are heavily subsidized in numerous ways by taxpayers. Meanwhile, Amtrak -- especially its long distance routes -- is micromanaged and starved, leaving it on the edge of oblivion. Why? Largely because Members of Congress take planes, not trains, except between Washington and New York, where fast, comfortable trains are provided for them, Wall Street bankers, lobbyists, and their expense accounts.
The airlines can all miraculously come up with the same policies and not be prosecuted under anti-trust laws. The airlines can go bankrupt and rise again. And again. And again. The airlines can call what they charge by a dozen different euphemisms and never be held to truth-in-advertising standards. The airlines can spend zillions buying Members of Congress. Airlines can pretty much do whatever they want. Amtrak may not.
It's worth repeating: this has become business as usual, and still the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
And the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
The average American who wants to fly is at the mercy of collusion, cronyism, cartels, Congressional convenience, government connivance, and Justice Department complicity. Airlines are heavily subsidized in numerous ways by taxpayers. Meanwhile, Amtrak -- especially its long distance routes -- is micromanaged and starved, leaving it on the edge of oblivion. Why? Largely because Members of Congress take planes, not trains, except between Washington and New York, where fast, comfortable trains are provided for them, Wall Street bankers, lobbyists, and their expense accounts.
The airlines can all miraculously come up with the same policies and not be prosecuted under anti-trust laws. The airlines can go bankrupt and rise again. And again. And again. The airlines can call what they charge by a dozen different euphemisms and never be held to truth-in-advertising standards. The airlines can spend zillions buying Members of Congress. Airlines can pretty much do whatever they want. Amtrak may not.
It's worth repeating: this has become business as usual, and still the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
23
Except that neither Mr. Trump nor Sen. Sanders polls well among frequent fliers. The baggage handlers and ticket clerks, on the other hand . . .
Lorem: evidence please.
Trump:
http://politicsthatwork.com/blog/trump-supporters.php
Sanders:
Well, you may have me there . . .
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/10/438587-bernie-sanders-lefts-middle-class...
. . . unless this entrance poll from Iowa is something to go by:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/01/us/elections/iowa-democrat...
Thanks for asking. I needed to know the answer myself.
http://politicsthatwork.com/blog/trump-supporters.php
Sanders:
Well, you may have me there . . .
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/10/438587-bernie-sanders-lefts-middle-class...
. . . unless this entrance poll from Iowa is something to go by:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/01/us/elections/iowa-democrat...
Thanks for asking. I needed to know the answer myself.
Great headline: "Airlines Reap Record Profits, and Passengers Get Peanuts"
I guess you rejected: "Airlines Get The Mine, Passengers Get The Shaft"
I guess you rejected: "Airlines Get The Mine, Passengers Get The Shaft"
12
They split it all down the middle, and then they kept the better half!
It is a great headline for an advocacy article somewhere on the web. I would submit that it is unworthy of the great newspaper that this once was.
There is never a voluntary end to greed. Yay for the myth of self-regulation.
5
This one is on the Obama DOJ. They let the industry morph into an non-competitive money making machine where competition is a thing of the past.
8
Jeff: Um, Reagan was the one who de-regulated the airlines. Blame him.
5
Um, no, Carter deregulated the airlines. But Reagan's DOJ created the fortress hub. Um.
Business travelers have and always will dictate the rates airlines charge to everyone else. Their company pays for it and it's a deductible business expense that you, the taxpayer, subsidize.
This all might be reasonable if the airlines realized they were hauling people and not animals, provides sustenance while you were trapped without adequate leg room and the flight crew didn't act like the Gestapo.
Until the American consumer says "no, no more of this crap" we will pay for poor service, lack of on-time flights and communing with flight staff who, in general, should be working in our prisons. You don't get what you pay for and that's just fine with the airlines.
This all might be reasonable if the airlines realized they were hauling people and not animals, provides sustenance while you were trapped without adequate leg room and the flight crew didn't act like the Gestapo.
Until the American consumer says "no, no more of this crap" we will pay for poor service, lack of on-time flights and communing with flight staff who, in general, should be working in our prisons. You don't get what you pay for and that's just fine with the airlines.
15
I fly 7-8 times a year all over the world. My complaint is that while fares do not change much, the customer service is just awful. The seats are awful, the food when served is inedible. Most personnel are less than friendly.
I fully expect the next move by airlines is to take the doors off the restrooms to discourage use.
The three most egregious practices of airlines
1- Charging to change a reservation. Why? Are you trying to serve the public or make money?
2-Charging to check a bag. Do you understand travel?
3- Overbooking. To book a flight you have to provide payment with a credit card. The seats are all paid for in advance so how does this happen. I have been bumped 3 times in the last five years and the vouchers just somehow were unusable.
And finally, talking to humans costs money. Yet that is how you connect and do customer relations of a positive note. And for the record. United is the worst.
I fully expect the next move by airlines is to take the doors off the restrooms to discourage use.
The three most egregious practices of airlines
1- Charging to change a reservation. Why? Are you trying to serve the public or make money?
2-Charging to check a bag. Do you understand travel?
3- Overbooking. To book a flight you have to provide payment with a credit card. The seats are all paid for in advance so how does this happen. I have been bumped 3 times in the last five years and the vouchers just somehow were unusable.
And finally, talking to humans costs money. Yet that is how you connect and do customer relations of a positive note. And for the record. United is the worst.
42
Many people ask the same three questions. There are good reasons, but not necessarily easy to understand or explain since they are rooted in the underlying economic factors faced by the industry. Here are very brief and simplified answers:
1. Change fees are what make cheap fares possible. Cheap fares are, in effect, subsidized by higher fares; they don't pay enough revenue on their own to cover costs (in airline-speak they are "not-fully-compensatory"). If there were no charge to change cheap fare reservations, nobody would book higher fares to start with, so all cheap fares would have to rise to become compensatory. Cheap fares would go away. This would lead to an unsatisfactory outcome not only for the traveling public but the airlines as well. Be careful what you ask for.
2. Nothing is free. It costs money to handle bags. There is no reason why those who don't use that particular service should be forced to pay for it; it should be paid for by those who do. Taking the bag charge out of the overall fare and charging separately is the right way to go.
3. Not all fares involve a pre-payment, and there are many no-shows for any flight. Overbooking allows the airlines to get better utilization of their capital. Without it, the cost of providing the service would necessarily be higher and average fares would have to rise. Some bumping is the inevitable corollary. It's a balancing act.
1. Change fees are what make cheap fares possible. Cheap fares are, in effect, subsidized by higher fares; they don't pay enough revenue on their own to cover costs (in airline-speak they are "not-fully-compensatory"). If there were no charge to change cheap fare reservations, nobody would book higher fares to start with, so all cheap fares would have to rise to become compensatory. Cheap fares would go away. This would lead to an unsatisfactory outcome not only for the traveling public but the airlines as well. Be careful what you ask for.
2. Nothing is free. It costs money to handle bags. There is no reason why those who don't use that particular service should be forced to pay for it; it should be paid for by those who do. Taking the bag charge out of the overall fare and charging separately is the right way to go.
3. Not all fares involve a pre-payment, and there are many no-shows for any flight. Overbooking allows the airlines to get better utilization of their capital. Without it, the cost of providing the service would necessarily be higher and average fares would have to rise. Some bumping is the inevitable corollary. It's a balancing act.
Disclosure: I work for one of the Big Four. I also, in another lifetime, racked millions of miles on business travel. I know both sides of the ticket counter. As many have noted airlines are commercial, for-profit entities. They are in the business of making money in a supposedly free market, capitalist economy, allowed to respond pretty freely to supply and demand as they see fit. Their pricing behavior makes sense seen through this prism. To lower fares when demand is remaining high (or high enough) to support current fares makes no sense in their business model. What for-profit business would?
As to price collusion, it's called the Internet. The people working in revenue management at each airline need only to watch fares on the web (or have some program do it for them) to see what their competitors are doing. Before the Internet, fares could be watched via various reservation systems. Going back decades to when the government began to allow airlines to discount fares, airlines have been able to watch their competitors' smoke signals pretty easily. No need for any sort of illegal behavior to fix prices. Yes, Virginia, once upon a time the government regulated airfares, and also which airlines could fly which routes.
Do we as a country wish to re-regulate air fares or put up with an imperfect free market system to sort out through supply and demand air fares? Are we willing to put up with cramped seats, packed planes, few amenities until market forces help? Tough call.
As to price collusion, it's called the Internet. The people working in revenue management at each airline need only to watch fares on the web (or have some program do it for them) to see what their competitors are doing. Before the Internet, fares could be watched via various reservation systems. Going back decades to when the government began to allow airlines to discount fares, airlines have been able to watch their competitors' smoke signals pretty easily. No need for any sort of illegal behavior to fix prices. Yes, Virginia, once upon a time the government regulated airfares, and also which airlines could fly which routes.
Do we as a country wish to re-regulate air fares or put up with an imperfect free market system to sort out through supply and demand air fares? Are we willing to put up with cramped seats, packed planes, few amenities until market forces help? Tough call.
5
You say you are a multi million mile flyer and involved in business. We don't know that. You are some guy on the internet. Would it not be better just to pick convincing words and not talk about yourself?
Wrong. Your comments assume that free markets are perfectly competitive. When there is a concentration of market power, there is the ability to fix prices. Fifty years of anti-trust law and economics have provide that to be the case. The answer does not have to be re-regulation, it must be a break-up of market power. Yet we persist with the belief that mergers that result in concentration are the result of the "free market" and must be left alone.
1
The ideology of big biz is that less regulation induces more competition. This is just another example where capitalism doesn't induce more competition by more competitors, but just the opposite, by concentration, as each industry matures. Corporate dominance is just another example of corporate control and greed, as shown here again, by the air industry.
1
The airlines are so easy to bash.
After decades of instability set off by deregulation, they're finally sustainably profitable. But nearly everyone hates them for this.
"I didn't get my headrest! They suck compared to Singapore and Emirates! They gouge us! Why can't I fly cross country for $99 like I used to! We need us some competition in here!"
Singapore and Emirates are heavily subsidized by their governments. Competition in the deregulated era gave us 4 major carriers.
It costs a fortune to run an airline. New planes, fuel costs that were until recently historically high, the necessity of filling every seat...in return, they're remarkably safe and provide lots of service to the places where most people want to go. They even go to Branson, Bentonville and Myrtle Beach.
The vast majority of flying is leisure travel, a luxury. But Americans again and again and again have demonstrated they want cheap tickets, not luxurious accommodations. Then they board the plane and amply demonstrate again and again and again that they want to have their sense of entitlement fed and coddled by insisting people give up seats (because they were too cheap to buy seats together) or to try fitting gargantuan luggage in the overhead or dragging along the most ill-behaved children imaginable.
I fly a handful of times a year-business, not leisure- and I'm lucky if the trip is not arduous and painful.
But it's not because of the airline.
It's the passengers.
After decades of instability set off by deregulation, they're finally sustainably profitable. But nearly everyone hates them for this.
"I didn't get my headrest! They suck compared to Singapore and Emirates! They gouge us! Why can't I fly cross country for $99 like I used to! We need us some competition in here!"
Singapore and Emirates are heavily subsidized by their governments. Competition in the deregulated era gave us 4 major carriers.
It costs a fortune to run an airline. New planes, fuel costs that were until recently historically high, the necessity of filling every seat...in return, they're remarkably safe and provide lots of service to the places where most people want to go. They even go to Branson, Bentonville and Myrtle Beach.
The vast majority of flying is leisure travel, a luxury. But Americans again and again and again have demonstrated they want cheap tickets, not luxurious accommodations. Then they board the plane and amply demonstrate again and again and again that they want to have their sense of entitlement fed and coddled by insisting people give up seats (because they were too cheap to buy seats together) or to try fitting gargantuan luggage in the overhead or dragging along the most ill-behaved children imaginable.
I fly a handful of times a year-business, not leisure- and I'm lucky if the trip is not arduous and painful.
But it's not because of the airline.
It's the passengers.
9
Thank you sir for writing a comment that is direct and too the point, without having to lard it with "As a person who has flown fifty million miles and been to hundreds of airline board meetings," then saying the airlines are out to screw the customer by any means necessary.
Exactly.
Maybe the Justice Department should investigate itself to determine why they thought that mergers and consolidations resulting in only four major US carriers was a good idea.
10
The airlines have lost me as a customer. I used to fly several times a year. Now never. I only go places that I can drive to. I just got sick of how I was treated.
It's like in any relationship: if you are treated badly, leave....
It's like in any relationship: if you are treated badly, leave....
15
I don't mind if the airlines make lots of money. I don't mind if they don't reduce their air fares. What I don't like is the lousy way they treat their customers.
15
Airlines are businesses, period. I just don't know why people don't seem to understand that. Their goal is to make money just like any business. They cannot sustain practices that, while beneficial to fliers, lead to heavy financial losses like in prior decades. No sane business would do that. Would you expect a car dealership to sell every car at half the price they acquired them just to make customers happy? Or a store to sell everything below their cost just to get people in the door? Or if you own a business, run it in the red years on end just to make your customer happy? Or sell your house below what you paid for on purpose just to make the buyer happy? I hope you would know the answer!
5
Nothing wrong with airlines making money. I realize they need to in order to provide the services they provide. But when industry consolidation leaves just a handful of major companies to provide these services, consumers suffer, and that's not capitalism.
5
STC wrote "Airlines are businesses, period. I just don't know why people don't seem to understand that. "
Actually as the article clearly states 80% of all air travel in the US is controlled by 4 companies, that is not a business, that is a monopoly. To give you a good example of what a monopoly will sell you compare your options for cable, that is assuming you have plural options.
Capitalists in the US complain about nobody is willing to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" anymore, that's been history for decades. A certain former drug company CEO comes to mind when you let these people of industry play god with the price of things. It might be great for the shareholders but does it do any good for the US economy. In the big picture no. It is just more money siphoned away to banking accounts by the millionaires that are supposedly "creating jobs".
Actually as the article clearly states 80% of all air travel in the US is controlled by 4 companies, that is not a business, that is a monopoly. To give you a good example of what a monopoly will sell you compare your options for cable, that is assuming you have plural options.
Capitalists in the US complain about nobody is willing to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" anymore, that's been history for decades. A certain former drug company CEO comes to mind when you let these people of industry play god with the price of things. It might be great for the shareholders but does it do any good for the US economy. In the big picture no. It is just more money siphoned away to banking accounts by the millionaires that are supposedly "creating jobs".
8
Those are not good comparisons.
This is travel, it's transportation.
Would you mind if every time the Metro system, or taxis raised their fare to please employee salary hikes or fuel prices?
Imagine the local subway system raising fair from $2.50 to $3.75 because the cost of electric had gone up, or conductors and engineers now want a raise.
I know airlines are privately owned and someone of a luxury but there should be fairness and not the allowance of a monopoly.
This is travel, it's transportation.
Would you mind if every time the Metro system, or taxis raised their fare to please employee salary hikes or fuel prices?
Imagine the local subway system raising fair from $2.50 to $3.75 because the cost of electric had gone up, or conductors and engineers now want a raise.
I know airlines are privately owned and someone of a luxury but there should be fairness and not the allowance of a monopoly.
1
On another subject, now that fuel is cheaper, I assume the New York times will be dropping its home delivery rates, or at least providing peanuts?
17
We we are a capitalist country. Businesses are allowed to make profits. I didn't notice any of the airline customers offering to pay more when they were losing money.
6
It's not that I'm against making a profit but when an airline says it needs to raise the price (surcharge) because of increasing fuel costs, then it seems reasonable that they would drop the surcharge when fuel costs drop. Simple as that.
9
Yes, and government needs to regulate effectively against monopolization within an industry.
2
And sometimes you don't even get peanuts! I remember a flight with Amercan Airlines, Chicago to Hawaii. It was considered a flight from one US state to another. It took almost 10 hours. American Airlines only served drinks: water, juice, coffee or tea. If we had flown the same number of hours to an European country, we would have been served a dinner and breakfast because the airline has to abide by the international rules Reading how much profit is made by the domestic carriers and how little they give back to their loyal customers makes me sick.
225
Dude ... Hawaii. Hawaii. Worry less about the peanuts and think more about getting lei'd at the end of your journey. Most of us can only look forward to Chicago or Detroit in winter at the end of ours.
US carriers are a disgrace compared to the European competition.
1
Can't stand American Airlines anymore. They were top notch many years ago but now they nickel and dime you and the cabin crew is hardly polite. I guess this attitude makes for success though as I saw their profits were higher than anyone else.
2
People just got used to their air fares being subsidized by inadequate staffing by employees whose salaries were frequently frozen, an aging fleet that needed replacing and a lot of debt. Consolidation was inevitable as airlines went out of business because they were essentially paying people to fly in an effort to get or maintain market share. The heady competition that some folks love led in the case of airlines to ruinous behavior and stupid pricing that customers came to take for granted. Airlines became a standing joke among investors. Now that airlines are finally pricing their product adequately to give their employees raises, refresh their fleets and reward their investors with dividends and buybacks, customers are loudly complaining.
Honestly, it is silly--low fares are still available if you can plan far enough in advance. And if you don't like the fares, try driving. Or take the train. Or a bus. There are alternatives. The truth is, though, air fares are still a bargain, giving people a freedom to travel distances in a time that was never dreamed of until just a few decades ago.
Get some perspective people!
Honestly, it is silly--low fares are still available if you can plan far enough in advance. And if you don't like the fares, try driving. Or take the train. Or a bus. There are alternatives. The truth is, though, air fares are still a bargain, giving people a freedom to travel distances in a time that was never dreamed of until just a few decades ago.
Get some perspective people!
7
Maybe those options are available in Durham or Raleigh or Chapel Hill but out here in the Far West (Motto: After us, it's Japan...) those options don't really exist unless each trip out of the region takes a week to get there and back.
2
Gail is absolutely right! So do I. I will nor fly a US airline unless I have no choice. They are uncivilized and overpriced!
21
Hey, these folks ar for profit companies, that is their job to manage the bottom line. That is why the airline seats are uncomfortable as ever to remind us of their obligations.
3
Can we PLEASE get high speed passenger trains in this country?
60
We can't have high speed rail because America is exceptional.
32
Realistically, high-speed rail is not feasible on long-distance routes in this country. The buildout costs would be astronomical. Major population centers are too far apart. It would only work on a few high density corridors. Anyway, self driving cars will probably eliminate a lot of the need for high-speed rail. And they will also provide a nice competition airline industry. Personally, I wouldn't mind a longer trip in my own private self driven car tooling along at 100 mph . But when it comes to truly long-distance routes, air travel is the only realistic option.
1
High speed rail won't work in this country on the Northeast Corridor because railroad right of ways are narrow and not straight enough. Curing this would mean tearing down half of Connecticut. It won't work on the West Coast because the rights of way are either crooked, hilly, or do not exist, thus they want high speed rail to Las Vegas to start from San Bernardino, sixty miles from LA, which would help nothing.
Perhaps its time to bring back airline regulation. At the very least, airlines should be required by the government to provide a minimum amount of legroom and one free checked bag.
All the mergers have reduced competition on many routes to the point that the three remaining big airlines (United, Delta, and American) have little incentive to make improvements.
All the mergers have reduced competition on many routes to the point that the three remaining big airlines (United, Delta, and American) have little incentive to make improvements.
17
Consolidation and lack of competition has hurt the airline consumer. One thing that would help is to allow foreign carriers to fly on domestic routes. Although this wouldn't help smaller markets, it would probably have a real effect on routes between large cities. Personally, I hate flying anymore. You are treated terribly, are nickle and dimed to death, the fares are high. I recently had planned to travel for pleasure from the Pacific NW to Corpus Christ, TX. The fare was about $1,000 - because there are only a couple of airlines flying there after consolidation. I decided not to make the trip. If you are flying out of smaller or mid-sized markets, the fares are high, and the choices minimal - again due to consolidation. I then decided to travel to Tuscon - booked and paid for my flights. Delta then cancelled my return flight - I could travel 13 HOURS the NEXT DAY as a substitute! Because of the time difference, I was able to get a refund, but ended up having to spend an extra night in Tuscon to be able to book an alternative flight home on United. Oh - and it took me about 5 HOURS to get this all sorted out and re-booked. I'm disgusted that the government has let the industry become so monopolized - which has resulted in very poor service and value for the consumer.
35
th next time fly to houston or phx, much bigger markets w more competition
then rent a car to travel onward
then rent a car to travel onward
2
I agree with thx1138. You can't expect the airlines to fly to some one horse town for the same price as between major hubs just because they are the same distance.
I hope you're lucky enough to live within van distance of Seattle or Portland. Try flying out of Spokane or the Tri-Cities or Yakima. Then you can experience the true joy of really getting screwed by the airlines because it sometimes means two connecting flights, and you know how often the planes fly into GEG, PSC or YKM...
3
Anybody who thinks the airlines lost money has no idea how creative accounting works.
28
Capacity discipline? Isn't that what OPEC does? Welcome to APEC (Airlines Predictably Extorting Consumers). Thank you DOJ. Please pass the peanuts.
11
I don't begrudge the airlines profits. It has been a historically terrible industry. However, when you have a situation where basic market forces are not operating due to collusion and lack of competition, the government must step in. Firstly, they need to investigate for price-fixing. Secondly, they need to allow foreign operators to operate in the United States to get some real competition.
205
Flying at nearly full capacity is a "Basic Market Force". That one is working.
Time to give airline CEO's another raise for, well, just for being so lovable.
19
Even Virgin went to high prices. They used to be really cool airline with low prices. Now they got big and charging insane prices. I hope an "elon musk" type of person comes in and disturbs the industry to benefit the consumer
10
I bring my own food onto JetBlue and they have greaT flights. JetBlue is fantastic. Stop whining, airplane food was never good even when they had it.
Flights are affordable, and comfortable.
Flights are affordable, and comfortable.
5
Getting an airline ticket through the many ticket services is a joke. They claim to be reviewing all the flights from all the airlines and the best price is....more than you want to pay and all prices are the same. There is no competition and has not been any for along time. United is the most obnoxious. I asked for a blanket on a flight and was told blankets were only for first class passengers! That was the last time I flew with them. Jet Blue was okay until they started adding more seats in spaces that don't exist. All the folks commenting here who are just so happy with the airlines must be flying business class or first class, not in steerage where there is a charge for every move you make. Someone here said president carter de regulated airlines. I believe it was Reagan. Reagan fired the air traffic controllers who were on strike for greater safety regulations. Reagan didn't know that, didn't bother to find out why they were on strike because he had already signed on to be the anti-government, anti-union, big corporate loyalist guy. So after him, mergers of many airlines and price fixing which isn't called price fixing but it is that anyway. The only airline who had lower fares in 2015 was Turkish Air.
10
If anything, airlines should begin charging for bringing aboard rolling suitcases and anything else that won't fit under the seat or at least reduce the size of the overhead compartments to fit only the smallest carry-ons. There is always extended drama involving human-sized roller bags that won't fit overhead (duh), and lack of space for bags of people who fail to board early. Be done with it and eliminate all large carryons. If that doesn't work, increase the fares to cover costs so we can have somewhat comfortable seats in coach and make flying a less hellish experience. Frankly there are too many people flying these days, most of whom would be on Greyhound if airfares were realistic. The Constitution does not guarantee the right to fly. Let them eat cake!
51
Last time I checked they served cake in Business Class, try it next time! I am sure it is more suitable for your class...
5
Elitist much?
2
Lynn says: "Frankly there are too many people flying these days, most of whom would be on Greyhound if airfares were realistic. "
You're right, Lynn. Let's get the riff-raff off the planes once and for all!
You're right, Lynn. Let's get the riff-raff off the planes once and for all!
2
This is a standard business practice; back to the invention of "price".
When everyone expects the price to go up; because of crop failure for example - you raise your prices as soon as the news appears - long before your costs actually go up.
"Hey, we have to protect our business! If we go broke, no one will be here to serve you!" - is the line.
And when your costs actually go down - you keep your prices as high as ever, with the line "Hey, our costs have not actually gone down yet! That's just a rumor!"
How in the world is anyone still surprised? And why do we put up with it?
When everyone expects the price to go up; because of crop failure for example - you raise your prices as soon as the news appears - long before your costs actually go up.
"Hey, we have to protect our business! If we go broke, no one will be here to serve you!" - is the line.
And when your costs actually go down - you keep your prices as high as ever, with the line "Hey, our costs have not actually gone down yet! That's just a rumor!"
How in the world is anyone still surprised? And why do we put up with it?
5
I don't mind paying the fare. What I do mind is the lousy service and arrogant attitudes of the ground and cabin staff in many large US airlines. I'm not talking about the pilots here. There is one exception recently, and that is Alaska Air. From check-in to baggage claim, the attitude and service of the airline's personnel was first class.
11
I'd be totally gobsmacked if it were otherwise. This is capitalism:
From my Econ 101 class (a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...) four ideas taught still resonate:
1. Within my lifetime there would be 3-5 participants in every type of business: airline, auto, TV, movie, agriculture, etc. Quality and choice would decline and consumer cost would rise. The über-rich would not be effected and would be catered to.
2. Businesses hate competition. Businesses want to avoid competition. Competition is expensive and fraught with danger: One could lose.
3. Businesses like laissez faire, free market capitalism. It can lead to monopoly. Businesses, when left to their own devices, will aggregate to their best advantage, create cartels at best and monopolies at worst. Monopoly is the ultimate goal of any business. A small cartel is not a bad second prize.
4. Businesses like oligarchies and/or plutocracies. They can live with, if they have to, theocracies. Businesses do not like democracies.
However, I think even my professor would have been surprised, and disheartened, by "Citizens United". But that's a topic for another conversation...
From my Econ 101 class (a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...) four ideas taught still resonate:
1. Within my lifetime there would be 3-5 participants in every type of business: airline, auto, TV, movie, agriculture, etc. Quality and choice would decline and consumer cost would rise. The über-rich would not be effected and would be catered to.
2. Businesses hate competition. Businesses want to avoid competition. Competition is expensive and fraught with danger: One could lose.
3. Businesses like laissez faire, free market capitalism. It can lead to monopoly. Businesses, when left to their own devices, will aggregate to their best advantage, create cartels at best and monopolies at worst. Monopoly is the ultimate goal of any business. A small cartel is not a bad second prize.
4. Businesses like oligarchies and/or plutocracies. They can live with, if they have to, theocracies. Businesses do not like democracies.
However, I think even my professor would have been surprised, and disheartened, by "Citizens United". But that's a topic for another conversation...
13
As someone who travels more often that I would like for my job, I do like Southwest Airlines. You can at least change your flights without being charged, they don't charge for additional baggage, and they are generally on time. When a flight is delayed due to "mechanical problems", it is often true....unlike their competitors. Oh, and their prices are a lot more reasonable. By far the most reliable out of the others three mentioned in this article
18
Oh, we don't even get peanuts, because there is almost always someone onboard with an allergy to peanuts.
28
“We will want to stay disciplined to make sure we don’t repeat the errors of the past.” Translation: "We must continue to collude with our so-called competitors to resist our moronic customers' desire to pay less." Thank you, Justice Department, for destroying competition in the aviation industry.
6
I think it all starts with President Reagan and his breaking of the unions in the air traffic control. Floating all the way down to President G.W. Bush and his Gestapo sounding Homeland Security -- thus making it really pleasant to pass through security at airports.
33
Joe: You've had a Democrat in the Oval Office for over seven years. Has he no responsibility?
6
Basically this is small stuff compared to the other items he is dealing with.
I don't care about new planes, upgraded entertainment systems or refurbished lounges. I don't care about being served meals or drinks, and I frankly don't even care that much about price. I do care about the ability to buy an airline ticket with some sort of certainty that the flight might take off and land on time. Or even more or less on time, even on the bloated published schedules. But the track record of the airlines over my last 1000+ flights has shown this to be a fruitless, naive expectation.
10
When the entertainment systems include wifi, that is a major plus, even though it is not cheap.
Airline travel these days is a miserable experience. My solution (and I know it doesn't work for many people) is that I have simply stopped flying anywhere. It's not worth it to me, between the lousy conditions of the actual flight and the nonsense with the TSA beforehand.
110 years ago, my grandparents immigrated to this country by boat - they were in steerage class. Today, flying "economy" is essentially flying in steerage.
110 years ago, my grandparents immigrated to this country by boat - they were in steerage class. Today, flying "economy" is essentially flying in steerage.
18
Nonsense. I got on a plane in D.C. this morning and had lunch in LA. Comfortable flight and arrived 35 minutes early. Like it or not, this is a typical experience. And I've noticed that the new planes seem to achieve a little more leg room because of amazingly thin seatbacks.
My great grandparents also crossed the Atlantic in 3rd class on a steamer. It was 1899. Let's remain in awe of their heroic journeys and not equate them with a few hours of not being pampered.
My great grandparents also crossed the Atlantic in 3rd class on a steamer. It was 1899. Let's remain in awe of their heroic journeys and not equate them with a few hours of not being pampered.
7
Paul, it depends on what kind of plane you are in. You flew from D.C. and landed in Los Angeles, two of the most important, and largest destinations in the U.S., so you were most likely in a larger plane. Lots of us are flying from secondary airports in tiny planes. The seating is very tight, especially if you get the middle, and the person in front of you reclines their seat. You're stuck for three or more hours and can hardly move. Last time I could hardly move my arm to reach my freebie drink. Then you must endure two or three flights, including running for gate changes, to get to your destination. So what should be a simple trip ends up taking many hours, from dawn to midnight. This is not just not being pampered. It's a lot worse than it used to be, and the prices for this lack of choice are very high. I'd rather be able to take a high-speed train directly where I want to go.
Your great-grandparents' Atlantic voyage is off topic. We're not talking about immigrating here.
Your great-grandparents' Atlantic voyage is off topic. We're not talking about immigrating here.
3
NYC? Just be glad that most all of 15 states (and the major population centers of the two largest provinces) are within 500 miles of you. Plus you're in the US area with the best public transportation.
You have options that let you get away and not drive more than 12 hours to get to your destination.
You have options that let you get away and not drive more than 12 hours to get to your destination.
1
Cheap oil/gas = less airline operational cost & more consumer disposable income = increased travel demand = more airline profit and decreased consumer benefit :(
1
When U.S. commerical aviation was deregulated by President Carter in 1977 Americans were promised lower fares and better service. In the immediate wake of deregulation fares were slashed because majors were competing against upstarts, but service was slashed as well. Additional seats were provided by adding an extra seat across wide-body equipment economy rows and increasing rows by decreasing leg room. Even domestic first class service declined! Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, Braniff, storied aairlines all, gone. The consolidation of surviving airlines through congressional approval has brought us to four airlines. I don't think fares will decrease, and as for service . . . unless you pay for it, you won't be getting it.
5
I'd rather pay less and have bad or no food. I won't starve before I get there.
I am all for big business making profit, without that what is the incentive of big business in the US. However, 150 a barrel to 30 a barrel, there is room to improve satisfaction closer to Emrites or Air France.. Signed Million Miler
8
Amazing you have a name relevant to this article. Can you point to some articles you've commented on before this so we can be sure you have not picked a name to lend credibility to your post?
1
Fares may not have dropped commensurate with the price of fuel, but come on people, it is still a relative bargain!
20
One free checked bag would help with the constantly overstuffed overhead bens.
1
Not where my airport is.
A bargain relative to what? Walking, biking, bus? There is no "free market" when you have oligopoly (semi-monopoly). The entrance cost to air travel is high, slots at major airports are limited, and Congress is in the hands of business.
A partial solution would be to let foreign carriers serve domestic markets.
A partial solution would be to let foreign carriers serve domestic markets.
The fundamental issue here is the way the airlines see us: we're just cargo.
15
I hope they at least share some of the profits with employees. They took the brunt the bad times and deserve better. For the passenger, it's better all around when the airline staff are happy campers.
17
Could be that airlines now have government contracts to aid in geoengineering activities. That could account for profit growth especially since business travel is down.
If I'm not mistaken, it cost $500 fifty years ago to jet round-trip from Phila to L.A., and fuel was much, much cheaper then than it is now. I'm guessing any rational person would characterize today's fare as cheap, when compared to the $5,000 a ticket might cost using today's cheap money.
4
Actually, fuel was about the same or slightly more expensive 50 years ago than it is today, not "much, much cheaper." Remember inflation.
3
Which is great if you fly only between Philly and L.A.
Now switch the cities to Pittsburgh and Fresno.
I get it: Flying's cheap in Combover Country. But the coasts are literally outliers.
Now switch the cities to Pittsburgh and Fresno.
I get it: Flying's cheap in Combover Country. But the coasts are literally outliers.
Airlines started charging for checked luggage supposedly to keep weight down when fuel costs were high. I thought it was chutzpah then, because most people who travel a long distance by air are staying somewhere overnight or longer. They need luggage. This makes the low airfares only a mirage. Now that fuel costs are low, let's give people one free checked bag. Please.
144
I am always happy to pay for a checked bag because that lowers the probability that they will lose it. Otherwise I'm pretty much guaranteed...
There is an additional and perhaps more important reason for free bags: efficiency. Nowadays up to an hour is required to board a plane of even moderate size, such as a 737 or A319. I fly a lot and am amazed at the stuff that people take on, or try to take on, flights. On typical flights from Newark or La Guardia to Houston most people are lugging wheel bags, along with one or two others. And usually there are arguments about use of the overhead racks and flight attendants insisting on gate checking. In contrast, I remember years ago flying between Tokyo and Osaka in a 747 SR, a 450 seat plane that always was fully boarded in 10-15 minutes from the time the gate opened. The reason was that all baggage, except a briefcase or equivalent had to be checked.
If the airlines did not charge for baggage and more rigidly enforced carry-on rules their aircraft turnaround times would probably decrease dramatically, particularly on short and medium range flights, where an aircraft can waste several hours per day in passenger boarding and exiting at multiple stops.
If the airlines did not charge for baggage and more rigidly enforced carry-on rules their aircraft turnaround times would probably decrease dramatically, particularly on short and medium range flights, where an aircraft can waste several hours per day in passenger boarding and exiting at multiple stops.
Let's see a show of hands of anyone who's surprised.
5
This article, among many other reasons is why I fly JetBlue, and will continue to do! Unlike all these others, they generally always make me feel that they care about me as a passenger, rather than their financial bottom line!! First!!!
5
The CEO of United Airlines got a 39 percent increase in compensation last year, to more than $11.3 million, according to an Associated Press analysis.
19
In June 2015, Money.com reported airlines profit margin was 4%. Yet for the same period, Apple's profit margin was 40%. I always read articles critical of airlines, but not of large technology companies.
3
th airline industry and at&t were among th first to be deregulated
in both cases, its been a failure
in both cases, its been a failure
8
A word of caution to the airlines: Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
5
You don't like it? Fly less. I do.
6
That would be a lot easier if we had a European - style inercity rail system.
1
It's not just the biggies who are ripping us off. Hawaiian, Alaska, Allegiant - their prices match those of the Big 4. Nobody can tell me that they're not price fixing. OK, so they don't get together on the golf course and decide on prices. But they track each other closely and the result is the same.
As it is now, the federal government has delivered us into the hands of the same kinds of people who crashed the economy. Let's not forget that. Either they have to be broken up - it's called anti-trust, for those who have never seen it happen in their lifetimes - or, better, since they will arrange to fix prices any way they can, the prices have to be regulated to guarantee a decent profit and decent prices.
More competition would help, which is why European, Asian and other international airlines should be granted access to the American market.
As it is now, the federal government has delivered us into the hands of the same kinds of people who crashed the economy. Let's not forget that. Either they have to be broken up - it's called anti-trust, for those who have never seen it happen in their lifetimes - or, better, since they will arrange to fix prices any way they can, the prices have to be regulated to guarantee a decent profit and decent prices.
More competition would help, which is why European, Asian and other international airlines should be granted access to the American market.
13
I miss those airfare deals of the late 80's when I could fly to London for $99 each way without any of the added charges, etc.
With that said, I think of this as simply supply and demand. I'm no fan of the airlines, but they are private businesses.
Also, being in the NY metro area with a number of airports and airlines to choose from I still find fares to be reasonable. I do not fly much, but if want to go to Florida, I can still travel for not much more then $200 RT. I was paying about the same a decade ago.
With that said, I think of this as simply supply and demand. I'm no fan of the airlines, but they are private businesses.
Also, being in the NY metro area with a number of airports and airlines to choose from I still find fares to be reasonable. I do not fly much, but if want to go to Florida, I can still travel for not much more then $200 RT. I was paying about the same a decade ago.
3
Another example of the same old story. "Heads we win; tails you lose."
5
Fifty years ago I flew round trip to London from New York on Pan Am at Christmas. I paid $350 ($2600 in 2016). In 1966 there were eight people on the plane.
In past years I've flown into Sarajevo and Iraq, and the planes I was on were shot at from the ground.
Stop complaining!
You asked for capitalism, you got capitalism.
You asked for capitalism, you go capitalism.
In past years I've flown into Sarajevo and Iraq, and the planes I was on were shot at from the ground.
Stop complaining!
You asked for capitalism, you got capitalism.
You asked for capitalism, you go capitalism.
4
As a frequent flyer on one of the largest carriers, I see it all. If these airlines wants to save a few more dollars, why not require their flight attendants to meet BMI (body mass index) requirements? Too many tenured attendants are overweight and unable to walk the aisle without bumping into every other passenger. Saving fuel by putting physically fit flight attendants who would be better suited for any emergency anyway should be made a requirement during their next contract negotiations.
Food service should be required by the FAA and Department of Transportation as part of a passenger bill of rights. Fly from San Jose Costa Rica to San Salvador on Taca and you get a hot meal. Fly on Air New Zealand and you can buy a smoking hot meat pie for $5. Fly any U.S. Airline and you get peanuts(provided no one has an allergy) or pretzels, even in business class. It's shameless and no one in the federal government calls these thieves on it.
Food service should be required by the FAA and Department of Transportation as part of a passenger bill of rights. Fly from San Jose Costa Rica to San Salvador on Taca and you get a hot meal. Fly on Air New Zealand and you can buy a smoking hot meat pie for $5. Fly any U.S. Airline and you get peanuts(provided no one has an allergy) or pretzels, even in business class. It's shameless and no one in the federal government calls these thieves on it.
14
Enforcing a BMI requirement for flight attendants would probably get you sued these days. They'd just cry discrimination. Indeed, I think there have been lawsuits over this issue.
Fly foreign (but not Canadian) when you can for more svelte and fit attendants. Ever see a chunky attendant on Singapore Air?
Fly foreign (but not Canadian) when you can for more svelte and fit attendants. Ever see a chunky attendant on Singapore Air?
5
The weight issue for flight attendants is very real. I've seen passengers wince when one started down the aisle.
4
The Federal Government? LOL. Maybe when Bernie's president.
1
The top airlines have always been good at informally signaling each other around prices - it has become an art form. They are not allowed to collude directly but they have elaborate mechanisms to tell each other to hold the line. Further in the years of losses the consolidation and optimization of routes has diminished competition to the point that they don't really need to cut fares to keep passengers. The U.S. being a very mature market the airlines probably calculate that lower fares doesn't really spike up demand or fill seats, it just moves revenues from one industry player to another.
65
The "invisible hand" was debunked in the '40's when the Prisoner's Dilemma was publicized and analyzed. Even pure competition won't guarantee a reasonable outcome unless the players find subtle ways to collude.
Adisa, it's not informal; it's published on their website.
1
That informal signaling sure worked well when airlines were losing money, didn't it?
Going some 500 miles an hour makes most flights quick, even coast to coast is only 6 hours so who cares about a free drink or some nuts. Getting there on time is the only issue. Grow up.
6
not as if youre missing anything w coach class airline food
i used to bring an italian sub w me
i used to bring an italian sub w me
2
Was that you?
4
Don't fly much, do you?
No problem, keep merging, said the Obama Administration and their do-absolutely-nothing-about-banks-and-airlines Justice Department. They knew this was going to happen because airlines and pharmaceutical companies share the same price ethic: gouge them for as much as you can and don't worry about the politicians, we've paid them off already.
34
On United you don't even get peanuts!
6
I recently flew Business Class from Melbourne to Los Angeles on United Airlines, a 15 hour flight. When I asked for another bottle of water, the flight attendant told me that only one is available per passenger. We have always flown Business or First on eiether American or United, however the food is attrociously bad, actually disgusting. There is also a caste system where those of us are paying cash for our tickets are at the bottom rung when asked what their choice of entree is and it is chosen by their frequent flyers. I am constantly amazed at what the American public choose to put up with. The airlines constantly say that all the passengers care about is low fares, but this is another one of their liies. Do you remember the days not so long ago where the airlines acually cared about their passengers?
34
Wait, you are multiple people paying cash for business class tickets Melbourne to LAX? I don't know about a caste system, but that's an awful lot of cash to be hauling around.
Mrs. McCormick has shared many comments and many of her thoughts in this singular article some remotely associated with the subject matter. They include conveying that she has a second home in Maui, travels frequently and extensively both foreign and domestic and primarily in the higher service classes. I don't know if this adds any credibility to her opinions but it certainly has led me to credibly believe that I am of a completely other caste than she - one that feels no reason to find value in wearing my financial worth on my sleeve. Or on my airline of choice. Or my seat assignment. Or in a newspaper commentary.
I don't put up with high prices, nickel and diming, and poor service. I've drastically cut down on domestic flying. If I fly international, I do not use US airlines. If we all decreased the number of times we flew, the airlines would get the message.
21
They won't get any message. And the logic is perfectly rational and transparent. There's always someone there who MUST actually fly and has to pay. It is almost a captive market. I fly as little as possible these days, because it is simply so hard (and expensive). And when flying internationally, I ALWAYS fly with foreign airlines. I hear this from everyone. Complaints, protests, and yet, as the article points out, demand has gone up!
2
Surprise, the airlines are in business to make themselves money, not to save you money.
10
Here is something very interesting:
A return trip with Delta from Toulouse France to JFK costs 413.76 € with travel from TLS on April 1st and returning from JFK on April 9th.
If you reverse the trip and fly from JFK on April 1st and fly back from TLS on April 9th the price of the trip jumps to 1393.36 $.
This probably has a very sound explanation, but seems very peculiar.
A return trip with Delta from Toulouse France to JFK costs 413.76 € with travel from TLS on April 1st and returning from JFK on April 9th.
If you reverse the trip and fly from JFK on April 1st and fly back from TLS on April 9th the price of the trip jumps to 1393.36 $.
This probably has a very sound explanation, but seems very peculiar.
8
I've found the same is true flying RT on AirFrance from CDG to SFO, vs SFO to CDG, it's almost half the price for a European flying RT to the US and double the price for an American to fly RT to Paris...I figured it was because AirFrance is partly owned by the French government and therefore makes it more affordable for the French people to travel. Delta and AF are partners.
Don't fly if you're going between Eastern cities like Pittsburgh, Philly, New York, Boston, Baltimore and D.C. and you're taller than my 5 foot Zilch. Use Amtrak instead. Twice I've flown out to Indianapolis to visit my parents and then driven partway back to Western Pennsylvania with my mother so she could visit my 88 year old grandfather. The next day she put on an Amtrak train in Latrobe and I took Amtrak back to Philadelphia. (Actually the 2nd time was January so my Saturday morning train became a Monday morning train, not because Amtrak cancelled but because there was no SEPTA (commuter rail) service at 30th street due to the blizzard. Amtrak was very nice about changing the ticket due to weather.) Amtrak gave me way more leg room than American Airlines did on the way out. And Amtrak now has internet, so most of my fellow passengers had laptops out. (I was the Luddite with the ink and paper book.)
17
Letitia,
Your Amtrack trip was subsidized by the government - plain and simple...
Your Amtrack trip was subsidized by the government - plain and simple...
7
Bob, air travel is subsidized by "the government" too! Who do you think runs FAA and TSA? How do airports get built? Who do air traffic controllers work for? Who's on the security gates? The Government. And fees from airlines do not cover the full cost. Taxpayers make up the difference. So it's as "socialistic" as Amtrak.
I kind of hoped that in the last gov't shutdown, the President would shut down the FAA and TSA. Maybe everyone would reaize it's not just the poor getting government benefits.
I kind of hoped that in the last gov't shutdown, the President would shut down the FAA and TSA. Maybe everyone would reaize it's not just the poor getting government benefits.
1
Fares on routes to smaller cities where I fly regularly for business like Evansville, Indiana and Madison, Wisconsin or Flint, Michigan have doubled in the last two years much as rates for small business have doubled under the Affordable Care Act.
Reagnesque de-regulation that promised lower consumer costs have proven as contradictory as the good life promised by NAFTA and TPP. Folks who live in those secondary cities now pay double for Bad service in old planes from 'competing' carriers that seem to have exactly the same fares for similar routes. Where is the golden reward promised?
Reagnesque de-regulation that promised lower consumer costs have proven as contradictory as the good life promised by NAFTA and TPP. Folks who live in those secondary cities now pay double for Bad service in old planes from 'competing' carriers that seem to have exactly the same fares for similar routes. Where is the golden reward promised?
22
BINGO! In Evansville's case, the round-trip fare from that fair city to Chicago for a two-day trip is $680. To fly the very same commuter flight from Evansville to Chicago, then continue to San Fransisco aboard a "mainline" jet adds $283. American Airlines is charging $340 one-way to fly you 300 miles, then $141 one-way to fly you 1844 miles. In the convoluted method of airline accounting, a system that makes bookkeeping at Hollywood movie studios look simple, airline execs convince themselves that's the lowest fare they can abide. If customer's don't like, they can fly another airline — and pay the same prices or more. Postscript: for me to fly nonstop round-trip from Chicago to San Fransisco on American, same dates, same flights, costs $650 — not the $283 my Evansville associates pay for that segment. Not winning.
3
President Carter deregulated U.S. commerical aviation, althought rapid GOP hating Times readers typically forget this fact. Per NAFTA, it was Clinton who gave us NAFTA (Ross Perrot warned against it and was ridiculed constantly on SNL and in Mainstream media) and Obama is pushing TPP. Would you call these presidents "Reaganesque"?
3
Yes after reaping massive losses, bankruptcy etc. Now these businesses might be making enough to justify their massive capital requirements.
2
I cannot decide if the vast majority of commenters are just poorly educated or just greedy. Or perhaps it is both.
I am not in the airline business, and I fly quite a bit so the higher costs directly affect me. But at least I recognize that the majority of airlines have had large cumulative losses for many years. Having them return to profits is good for the industry, and good for airline safety.
And if profits stay high for too long, an upstart will come in and bring them down a notch. Free market will work as it should.
I am not in the airline business, and I fly quite a bit so the higher costs directly affect me. But at least I recognize that the majority of airlines have had large cumulative losses for many years. Having them return to profits is good for the industry, and good for airline safety.
And if profits stay high for too long, an upstart will come in and bring them down a notch. Free market will work as it should.
63
You should never fly again in an airplane that does not have a pressurized cabin
3
Mark,
Which part of "the long term profit of the airline industry is close to zero" do you not understand?
Which part of "the long term profit of the airline industry is close to zero" do you not understand?
The free market "should" work, but that view may be a tad optimistic. Barriers to entry are very high in the airline industry. Foreign carriers cannot fly domestic routes, with few exceptions. Gates are not readily available at major airports. The cost of starting an airline and being certified to carry passengers takes both time and a whole lot of money. The industry is similar to operating a utility: one cannot simply say "I will start a company and take on the incumbent" when they have no access to the grid already established to link producer to consumer.
Please see last week's Economist for more detail on this very issue. They ran an in-depth article that noted the historic de-coupling of prices and fuel, which has never happened before.
Please see last week's Economist for more detail on this very issue. They ran an in-depth article that noted the historic de-coupling of prices and fuel, which has never happened before.
7
I just returned from Florida on American and there was not any peanuts. We were only served a beverage.
5
Bring your own snacks and always buy a bottle of water after you come through security. You never know what will happen once you board a plane and you don't want to be in the position of needing water but not getting it due to arcane airline policies. It is better to fly defensively.
4
And where are the federal government's anti-trust and anti-monopoly and anti-price-fixing powers in all this? Well, they're busy rubber-stamping approvals for mergers and rejecting citizen complaints as unfounded. Remember, these are the guys who made sure Jamie Dimon et al. didn't go to prison.
38
Looks like the air traveling public is getting "Shkrelied."
Huh, so THAT'S what that feels like.
Huh, so THAT'S what that feels like.
10
Ok, so when the price of oil went up, they rushed to pass the expense (and then some) on to the customers; and when it went down, they shoved the extra money into their own pockets.
Conclusion: these monopolists enjoy practicing asymmetrical warfare against their own customers - I wonder how much the politicians have taken from this cabal of Un-American Airlines?
Conclusion: these monopolists enjoy practicing asymmetrical warfare against their own customers - I wonder how much the politicians have taken from this cabal of Un-American Airlines?
90
If you don't like the price tag don't buy the service.
Yes, well United not only has pricing power, it has the power to make even first class passengers miserable. I fly out of Boise often, first class, routed to either the San Francisco or Denver hubs. They squeeze us into a little Canadair-50 toy jet that cannot even accommodate standard wheeled carry-ons. You have to check them at the gate. Then when you get to SF, as I did recently, there's not even a ramp; instead they dumped us out onto the tarmac in the freezing rain to wait for the carry-ons. Where was I--Siberia? This is what I get for a first class ticket? And after years and years of stacking up miles and using a $400-a-year United credit card (which gets me into lounges to dry off after our refugee treatment on the tarmac). United could at least use the regional Embraer jet, which actually accommodates carry-ons in the cabin. Am I asking too much?
20
If it makes you feel any better I fly Swiss air and Lufthansa somewhat often first or business. In Europe they still do three-three up front within Europe and just don't book the middle seat. I've had to board and deplane with 9 inches of snow on the ground walking on the Tarmac.
There are just routes that they can't justify a bigger plane on. You are flying out of Boise, after all.
There are just routes that they can't justify a bigger plane on. You are flying out of Boise, after all.
Apparently you are asking way too much.
1
I feel your pain.
I don't care about food or snacks or blankets or pillows.
I just want their computerized wackadoo pricing algorithms to streamline. Sure if I book a flight 24 hours before I know it will be expensive. But I think it's ridiculous that if I search a flight and find a fare that three hours later that fare has increased 25% or no longer exists even thought the flight is 20% booked. And that's if I'm looking 8 weeks in advance
I just want their computerized wackadoo pricing algorithms to streamline. Sure if I book a flight 24 hours before I know it will be expensive. But I think it's ridiculous that if I search a flight and find a fare that three hours later that fare has increased 25% or no longer exists even thought the flight is 20% booked. And that's if I'm looking 8 weeks in advance
35
There is no price on safety. The US airlines haven't killed a passenger in nearly 7 years. I dare you to find any industry with that kind of record.
It's the safest, most reliable method of transportation in America. When airlines start to lose money, it makes me a tad nervous as to what corners they might be cutting. When they are flush, I feel a lot better - I could care less about "free snacks."
Use the money and give pilots more rest.
Use the money to give mechanics a raise.
That's the kind of investment we need as passengers.
It's the safest, most reliable method of transportation in America. When airlines start to lose money, it makes me a tad nervous as to what corners they might be cutting. When they are flush, I feel a lot better - I could care less about "free snacks."
Use the money and give pilots more rest.
Use the money to give mechanics a raise.
That's the kind of investment we need as passengers.
289
The airline workers ' low wages have subsidized low fares for too long. Repair work has been outsourced. Cleaners earn minimum wage. Your reply demonstrates insight, instead of other posters' resentment and self-interest.
3
Except that, increasingly airlines, including US airlines, are outsourcing maintenance to unlicensed foreign mechanics to save money. See, e.g., http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/airlines-do-fixes-cheap-sendin...
14
"There is no price on safety." You have to be kidding. There are entire university departments of "Risk Management" - now a science right up there with Economics - and the have equations to set the exact price of safety; always. You can get a PhD in pricing safety, and charge people big consulting fees to tell them just what a life is worth. There's a dollar figure they use.
You seriously think no American airplane will ever crash again??
You seriously think no American airplane will ever crash again??
7
If they are not going to lower airfares, at least they could pay their employees a better wage. They have suffered years of givebacks.
115
Why? So when demand softens or costs go up they can be bankrupt again? Supply and demand will take care of that if needed.
Did you just conveniently ignore the line in the article that said: "At the same time, rank-and-file employees are getting bonuses, and new labor agreements show gains that were unimaginable just a few years ago." ??
3
I just want the old legroom back!
6
Airlines in the U.S. are guilty of collusion and anti-competitive. They won't allow European, Asian and Middle Eastern airlines into the U.S. market to compete. Therefore airline tickets are ridiculously expensive despite record low fuel prices. Very anti-capitalist. Terrible.
109
I'm certainly not defending our domestic airlines, but whether a foreign carrier competes in the US domestic market (which is what I think you mean) is not up to the carriers. Few or no countries allow foreign carriers to move passengers between two or more airports (or ports) in their country. This is generically known as "cabotage."
Where I live (Hawai'i) this hurts us greatly, especially with ocean shipping. But it would take an act of Congress to change, and that's not going to happen.
Where I live (Hawai'i) this hurts us greatly, especially with ocean shipping. But it would take an act of Congress to change, and that's not going to happen.
3
It's called wage protection for U S pilots. Just like we don't want foreign truckers delivering goods.
No doubt many of us remember the time when the government regulated the fares and fees charged by airlines. The deregulation economy lead by thinkers like Milton Friedman has now brought about the gig economy or "sharing economy" but, as with the "Peace Keeper" missile program, it has also shown us to beware of euphemisms. The "freedoms" Friedman glorified are for the benefit of the corporations, not us citizen.
Another anecdotal measure of our one percent/ninety nine percent society is revealed by these very same airlines. Back in "the day" there was a modest first class section and an economy seating on most commercial airplanes that was well acceptable. Now, the wealthier have led to the expansion of the first/business class seating and to shrink the seating in economy giving us seats sized for grade schoolers.
Another anecdotal measure of our one percent/ninety nine percent society is revealed by these very same airlines. Back in "the day" there was a modest first class section and an economy seating on most commercial airplanes that was well acceptable. Now, the wealthier have led to the expansion of the first/business class seating and to shrink the seating in economy giving us seats sized for grade schoolers.
31
Are you really that out of touch with reality? Adjusted for inflation, economy class airfare is far cheaper now than prior to deregulation.
3
Part of what you say is true. The airlines have shrunk the size of the seats in Economy in order to fit in more. A good option is to buy Economy Class tickets and bring your own food! Business Class light!
2
The string of mergers has created a domestic airline cartel. Add to this the so-called "alliances" and the global airline industry is largely a cartel with fares, schedules and capacities coordinated between former competitors. The FF programs are nothing more than a sham to give consumers the impression that there is a benefit to "loyalty".
The DOJ really let us down. It may be too late to break up the big 3 but the collusion with the international carriers should be stopped as it is clear that price fixing is taking place.
The DOJ really let us down. It may be too late to break up the big 3 but the collusion with the international carriers should be stopped as it is clear that price fixing is taking place.
24
It may be that the DOJ has been, as with its failure to prosecute the key individuals responsible for the "Great Recession", emasculated by either Congressional "unfunding" or the US membership (brought about by Bill Clinton) in the World Trade Organization, thus relinquishing "our" control over our very own air carriers.
3
Once upon a time, airline travel was an enjoyable experience. Now it is insufferable unless one flies first class. Once upon a time, airlines were well regulated for the public good; Republican policy destroyed that. Once upon a time, airlines provided a public service and still made money without charging exorbitant extra fees, and they even provided decent food instead of crackers.
Banks are the same; once upon a time they provided services and returns in return for deposits; now they charge fees, as if depositors' money did not provide them with enough leverage to make profits.
Basically what we have here is more and more money going into the hands of a handful of executives while the rest of us pay for it and get very little if anything in return. This is why we need more voices like those of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who fortunately believe that government in a democratic society is meant to serve the public good and not the interests of corporations and oligarchs.
Banks are the same; once upon a time they provided services and returns in return for deposits; now they charge fees, as if depositors' money did not provide them with enough leverage to make profits.
Basically what we have here is more and more money going into the hands of a handful of executives while the rest of us pay for it and get very little if anything in return. This is why we need more voices like those of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who fortunately believe that government in a democratic society is meant to serve the public good and not the interests of corporations and oligarchs.
139
I think you forget how stupid regulation was and how much more in real dollars it cost to fly back then.
The government decided which airlines could fly between which cities and how much they could charge. More than half the people in the country could not afford to fly.
They were controlled like utilities.
Under deregulation (especially with the Internet) passengers started picking flights solely on the basis of cost and the airlines started chopping everything to lower ticket prices. In went more seats. When American Airlines created more leg room (by removing seats) and tried to sell that to the public, nobody bought it. Result? The seats went back in.
If you don't like the current situation, look in the mirror!
The government decided which airlines could fly between which cities and how much they could charge. More than half the people in the country could not afford to fly.
They were controlled like utilities.
Under deregulation (especially with the Internet) passengers started picking flights solely on the basis of cost and the airlines started chopping everything to lower ticket prices. In went more seats. When American Airlines created more leg room (by removing seats) and tried to sell that to the public, nobody bought it. Result? The seats went back in.
If you don't like the current situation, look in the mirror!
2
JEB: airlines were deregulated by the Civil Aeronautics Board under President Carter.
And back in those halcyon days, most Americans lived their entire lives without stepping on a plane.
I agree it was more pleasant without the riff raff and without hordes of young families clogging the air transport system. On the other hand fares, adjusted for inflation, are a fraction of what they used to be.
I'm always astonished when "journalists" fail to point out that side of the equation.
I agree it was more pleasant without the riff raff and without hordes of young families clogging the air transport system. On the other hand fares, adjusted for inflation, are a fraction of what they used to be.
I'm always astonished when "journalists" fail to point out that side of the equation.
1
I work in the travel industry and there is no question that the US airlines are now a cartel. The Feds made a big mistake by allowing all the mergers in the 2000s. The only way to combat their price gouging is to allow real open skies, where foreign airlines can run domestic US routes. The US airlines are terrified that this might happen. This is the only bargaining chip that will bring their greed under check.
106
So use the massive power of people to get this to happen. You might need some new airports or at least gates and runways.
2
I remember Continental Airlines fondly. United Airlines took care of that.
4
A few months ago Delta's CEO congratulated his peer airlines at a conference, praising them for sticking together and not adding flights to increase seat capacity, thereby being able to maintain high (and unjustifiable) ticket prices to ensure high profits.
After that speech members of Congress were all in an uproar, staying that this was evidence of collusion and price fixing!! Congress was going to investigate and make the airlines accountable!! LOL.
After that show of Congressional bravado what happened - i.e. nothing - was pretty much status quo. The issue faded into the background until once again the NY Times brought it to the forefront. I expect that on Monday we'll see members of Congress repeating the previous circus act.
After that speech members of Congress were all in an uproar, staying that this was evidence of collusion and price fixing!! Congress was going to investigate and make the airlines accountable!! LOL.
After that show of Congressional bravado what happened - i.e. nothing - was pretty much status quo. The issue faded into the background until once again the NY Times brought it to the forefront. I expect that on Monday we'll see members of Congress repeating the previous circus act.
18
How much do the Airline companies "contribute" to politicians?
Seems they achieved a darn good payback. Ain't America great?
Seems they achieved a darn good payback. Ain't America great?
5
"Giving free peanuts and chips is a way to address the issue that consumers think the airlines have been nickel-and-diming them.”
This statement is risible--and all-too-typical of "feed them crumbs" mentality of US business! Sorry, does ANYONE thing that peanuts will ease the outrage that air travelers feel towards airlines for price-gouging, inhumanly cramped conditions on planes, and general contempt for their customers?
The price of tickets skyrocketed when the price of oil went up, but now that oil is at record lows, the airlines give their customers peanuts?
And of course the windfall proceeds will go to obscene bonuses for CEO...as usual!
This statement is risible--and all-too-typical of "feed them crumbs" mentality of US business! Sorry, does ANYONE thing that peanuts will ease the outrage that air travelers feel towards airlines for price-gouging, inhumanly cramped conditions on planes, and general contempt for their customers?
The price of tickets skyrocketed when the price of oil went up, but now that oil is at record lows, the airlines give their customers peanuts?
And of course the windfall proceeds will go to obscene bonuses for CEO...as usual!
42
Bottomline: I used to enjoy flying on US carriers, now I hate it. Why? Because they provide lousy service. Gonna take more than peanuts to turn me around. Until then, I'm avoiding domestic flights, and on int'l I'm sticking to KLM, Lufthansa, Air France, BA.
49
We don't get peanuts. Don't I wish!
Dan Kravitz
Dan Kravitz
1
When are we going to re-regulate the airlines?
25
Probably never!!! And they are highly regulated for say safety.
1
Soon I hope!!
2
And those gas surcharges?
4
I HATE FLYING!!! (and I used to love it)
11
Free-market capitalism run amok.
Heaven forbid we have any regulations that would prevent this abuse.
This kind of greed is EXACTLY why trickle down economics doesn't work.
Heaven forbid we have any regulations that would prevent this abuse.
This kind of greed is EXACTLY why trickle down economics doesn't work.
42
Passengers have been getting not just peanuts, but the shaft for years.
An airline passenger rights organization, FlyersRights.org, has been spearheading a national campaign to get passengers the rights they need and deserve.
Currently. pets in cargo have more rights than people in coach re. space requirements. So, airlines - please - treat us like dogs!
An airline passenger rights organization, FlyersRights.org, has been spearheading a national campaign to get passengers the rights they need and deserve.
Currently. pets in cargo have more rights than people in coach re. space requirements. So, airlines - please - treat us like dogs!
42
What a shock - the free market doesn't work as advertised.
113
Yes a shock it does.
2
Merger much? It's called a monopoly.
Modeled exactly like our cable/internet/phone providers.
If only the domestic market here allowed for air carriers from other countries to compete within the US for routes. All services should be more competitively priced. Instead what we have today in America is a business model run similarly to that of the old Soviet Union. Where you had only ONE, usually awful, choice in the market and competition was strictly prohibited by the government.
Welcome to the U.S.S.A.! Fasten you deregulated seatbelts, for it's going to be a horrible, bumpy ride for consumers.
Modeled exactly like our cable/internet/phone providers.
If only the domestic market here allowed for air carriers from other countries to compete within the US for routes. All services should be more competitively priced. Instead what we have today in America is a business model run similarly to that of the old Soviet Union. Where you had only ONE, usually awful, choice in the market and competition was strictly prohibited by the government.
Welcome to the U.S.S.A.! Fasten you deregulated seatbelts, for it's going to be a horrible, bumpy ride for consumers.
13
Yes, it IS Aeroflop ...
3
Deregulation works its magic!
3
Don't worry, once oil goes up, them airfares will budge, all right.
11
The long-term profits of the airline industry are close to zero, as evidenced by the graphs for American and United. Only Southwest has been consistently profitable. While some consumers will always complain about higher prices, I don't remember many being sympathetic about their losses.
Given that the industry has immense fixed costs and rapidly expiring inventory (an empty seat today cannot be sold next week), it is no surprise that both profits and losses are magnified. The profits they are making today are good for the industry. Continued high profits will bring more competition, restoring a balance in the future.
Given that the industry has immense fixed costs and rapidly expiring inventory (an empty seat today cannot be sold next week), it is no surprise that both profits and losses are magnified. The profits they are making today are good for the industry. Continued high profits will bring more competition, restoring a balance in the future.
3
"Continued high profits will bring more competition, restoring a balance in the future."
Right.
Right.
10
Or just give them the money to modernize their fleets and not go bankrupt the next time things turn.
1
I really wish some flush start-up would nip at the big ones' heels. It would take a ton of cash, but the industry is ripe for a beat down by a younger, more nimble airline a la Southwest of the 80s and 90s. We don't need luxury, but charging to be able to bring a bag (oh, you want to bring a bag to a foreign country--how weird! That'll cost you.), pick your seat, not faint from hunger IS the very definition of nickel and diming.
197
Surprise! There are start ups!
jetBlue, Spirit, Virgin America, Frontier
I'd avoid Allegiant though because they seem to have lots of maintenance problems.
jetBlue, Spirit, Virgin America, Frontier
I'd avoid Allegiant though because they seem to have lots of maintenance problems.
1
People's Express... was great.
The big airlines have many ways to prevent entry by start-ups, for example by owning all the slots at an airport. They are well aware of the risk they face from start-ups, and devote considerable time, energy, and money to preventing them from interfering with their monopoly.
3
Flew Egypt Air from Athens to Cairo. 2 hour flight max. Served a four course meal including salmon. Fly United from DC to SFO non-stop, received one glass of soda and no peanuts or pretzels. Seats are narrow, leg space non-existant. Delays common. Customer service? What's that? It's about the 3 P's. Profit, Profit, and more Profit.
238
Are those airlines state supported? Cheaper non union labor?
LOL and nodding in agreement at the glass of soda! I had a flight attendant on a United flight nearly refuse to give me the ENTIRE can of ginger ale when I asked for it. Let's face it, at this point they are out to scrounge every penny they can get. I'm surprised they don't start charging to use the bathroom.
8
I'm sorry you wrote that. Someone is going to calculate that giving away more soda and charging $5 for the bathroom will make them more money.
2
There is no real competition on most routes. FTC where are you? I use Spirit Air whenever possible. I don't need peanuts and pretzels.
4
What are airlines are doing is nothing different than any other industry. Taking care of customers, contrary to public announcements, is almost always a bottom rung priority. The first priority is to maximize profits followed by return to stockholders.
66
Which requires taking care of customers at some level. I don't fly and you don't need to do so either. Business can be transacted digitally, vacations can be taken closer or drive.
2
They run a legal monopoly with all of their "partners" now. I fly a lot, my frequent flyer plan was downgraded, and I'm paying 80% of what I paid when fuel was $4 a gallon for a ticket.
3
Why would anyone expect airlines to lower their fares with the decrease in oil prices? Why ask them to power fares as long as people are willing (or needing) to pay those fares and more? They are not philanthropists. This is not rocket science. As long as the demand is there why would airlines give up their enormous profit margins? The extra little bad of peasants and pretzels are pathetic, more like alms. What I do not understand is the need to disguise part of the fares as surcharges and fees. Why not simply fold them into the price and just raise the price as high as the market allows? Bravo for the new upstarts. Spirit, Frontier Airlines, and Allegiant Air. I will be looking for them in the future to be able to fly.. Hope they remain as upstarts for some time. Look what happened to Southwest, far form an upstart anymore, with obscene long routes and prices. I avoid flying with the juggernaut airlines--unless I must.
78
You're right, why wouldn't people be as greedy as they possibly can? We're all suckers - that's the way it's set up. I think what's irritating is that we've allowed ourselves to be convinced that this is the only way to be. I mean, why should we accept this paradigm? Have we lost our pride? (Yes.)
1
MD:
Your missing the big picture... the DOJ let the industry monopilize. We consumers, including you, are paying for it. You are right, the airline managrrs and shareholders are not phlanthropists, they are con artists, and have been recorded talking amongst themselves in marginally coded tongues about how they must be disciplined in managing capacity. Do you have the intellect to understand what that means and what is really going on?
Your missing the big picture... the DOJ let the industry monopilize. We consumers, including you, are paying for it. You are right, the airline managrrs and shareholders are not phlanthropists, they are con artists, and have been recorded talking amongst themselves in marginally coded tongues about how they must be disciplined in managing capacity. Do you have the intellect to understand what that means and what is really going on?
4
Amen
And here's part 2:
and if your knees are pressed against
the seat in front of you
just wiggle your toes to stave off
blood stagnation.
You won’t be able to move much more than that
until your destination.
You could’ve purchased a couple of extra inches
at twenty dollars each, if you weren’t penny-pinching.
Too late now—every space is taken.
A screen on the back of the seat that jams you in
(unless you’re a midget)
flashes ad after ad in your face.
We’ll sell you something, whatever your budget:
time shares in the tropics, toenail fungus cream,
the vacation of your dreams,
cures for baldness, indigestion, limp erections,
new cars with lots of room in them,
an in-flight movie, only seven bucks—
can’t stand the ads? A tiny button darkens the screen.
Good luck finding it.
Four dollars for a bag of chips or Gummi bears,
eight for a good stiff drink—say,
who’s making that fuss in 28A?
The woman with the artificial leg. No tears
allowed; they’re prejudicial to customer contentment.
Buy a glass of wine and stuff your resentment;
continue to bawl
and we’ll put you on the no-fly list.
Next time take the bus
to your grandma’s funeral.
Thank you for flying with us.
We know you have a choice of airlines
or did before the latest merger.
They’re pretty much alike these days.
Now buckle up, and prepare for departure.
and if your knees are pressed against
the seat in front of you
just wiggle your toes to stave off
blood stagnation.
You won’t be able to move much more than that
until your destination.
You could’ve purchased a couple of extra inches
at twenty dollars each, if you weren’t penny-pinching.
Too late now—every space is taken.
A screen on the back of the seat that jams you in
(unless you’re a midget)
flashes ad after ad in your face.
We’ll sell you something, whatever your budget:
time shares in the tropics, toenail fungus cream,
the vacation of your dreams,
cures for baldness, indigestion, limp erections,
new cars with lots of room in them,
an in-flight movie, only seven bucks—
can’t stand the ads? A tiny button darkens the screen.
Good luck finding it.
Four dollars for a bag of chips or Gummi bears,
eight for a good stiff drink—say,
who’s making that fuss in 28A?
The woman with the artificial leg. No tears
allowed; they’re prejudicial to customer contentment.
Buy a glass of wine and stuff your resentment;
continue to bawl
and we’ll put you on the no-fly list.
Next time take the bus
to your grandma’s funeral.
Thank you for flying with us.
We know you have a choice of airlines
or did before the latest merger.
They’re pretty much alike these days.
Now buckle up, and prepare for departure.
15
OK, I can't resist. This is part I of what I wrote after my last United Airlines flight. The story about the woman with the prosthesis is true:
Pre-Flight Instructions
Welcome aboard, you lucky passengers!
The skies these days are so much friendlier,
even intimate.
Why, look at the lady standing at
row 28, cramming a flower-print carry-on
into an overstuffed overhead bin
while others push past her.
Move faster, my dear, but you needn’t blush.
The guard at the gate yanked up her trouser leg
displaying her prosthesis
to one and all.
Just a little humiliation to assure us
we’ll be safe from harm,
from members of the Islamic State
wearing below-the-knee bombs.
You’ll find our snugly reconfigured cabin
will help you meet your traveling companions.
Your elbows and theirs do-si-do on the armrest.
The steward suggests you refrain
from eating onions on the plane,
Pre-Flight Instructions
Welcome aboard, you lucky passengers!
The skies these days are so much friendlier,
even intimate.
Why, look at the lady standing at
row 28, cramming a flower-print carry-on
into an overstuffed overhead bin
while others push past her.
Move faster, my dear, but you needn’t blush.
The guard at the gate yanked up her trouser leg
displaying her prosthesis
to one and all.
Just a little humiliation to assure us
we’ll be safe from harm,
from members of the Islamic State
wearing below-the-knee bombs.
You’ll find our snugly reconfigured cabin
will help you meet your traveling companions.
Your elbows and theirs do-si-do on the armrest.
The steward suggests you refrain
from eating onions on the plane,
26
And I say, so what? A decade ago when the airlines were going bankrupt due to skyhigh fuel costs, pension costs, and airline employees were losing their jobs and pensions, what did the airlines and their employees "get" from passengers? Answer: nothing.
7
Simple supply and demand at work. Consumers keep buying tickets, so airlines hold to high prices. Stop buying tickets at high prices and ticket costs will go down.
5
If you fly and can be bought off with a bag of peanuts, you surely deserve everything you don't get.
8
Just look at the lobbying and campaign contribution figures directed toward our "esteemed" Congress and the "capture" of our regulatory agencies for the "answer" to the question as to why the airlines are pocketing most of the cost savings from the dramatic fall in oil prices. One can apply the same logic to why pharmaceutical prices are astronomical and other "services" that are supposed to be regulated and governed by antitrust laws are now controlled by the businesses they're supposed to regulate. Our government simply doesn't function for the "people" anymore.
10
With high demand, there's no way they will drop fares. More likely the boardrooms are spending more time discussing how to charge for peanuts and chips.
10
"The base fare was $292, but the final price included a 'carrier-imposed surcharge' of $516." This won't go away anytime soon.
Airlines only pay flight taxes on the base fare. The $516 isn't taxed. So it's all revenue. Same thing with baggage fees.
Airlines only pay flight taxes on the base fare. The $516 isn't taxed. So it's all revenue. Same thing with baggage fees.
149
After many years of cheap fares and massive losses post-9-11, the industry is finally making dough because oil is rock bottom. Let US air carriers - and their beleaguered (mostly union) workforces enjoy a little recovery - why don't 'cha?
4
Because most people simply don't care about the health of the industry, which has a long-term profit of about zero. The consumers are just as greedy as the consumers say the airlines are.
1
It is appalling that American carriers are permitted to treat passengers this way, especially while they offer luxuries to Business and First Class passengers. Their overall attitude seems to be "Let them eat cake!". Hillary and Bernie are railing against Wall Street and I agree with both; however, I do wish both of the Democratic candidates would speak on this issue during their next few debates.
9
So they're making more money than ever? Most industries are. I've been flying for the past 4 years and have been nothing but satisfied with prices and service.
JetBlue once refunded the entire cabin's flight when we had been running late. United employees are pleasant through everyone's death stares. Alaska Airlines is always a great price with great service.
It's hard to board and serve Americans, they whine about everything to gain middle-school like peer acceptance at the gate.
This article joins in with the tired moaning and groaning of Starbucks drinking Americans at the gate every Friday at LAX.
From a happy 22 year old.
Next.
JetBlue once refunded the entire cabin's flight when we had been running late. United employees are pleasant through everyone's death stares. Alaska Airlines is always a great price with great service.
It's hard to board and serve Americans, they whine about everything to gain middle-school like peer acceptance at the gate.
This article joins in with the tired moaning and groaning of Starbucks drinking Americans at the gate every Friday at LAX.
From a happy 22 year old.
Next.
6
Well, my 22 year old friend, perhaps you have never experienced real service on an airline, so you have no basis of comparison. That used to happen in the days before you remember flying.
18
Get back to us when you're 52. Too bad you'll never know what you missed in the golden age of travel, long before you were born. I guess you can't miss what you've never had. Someday, try flying internationally with a foreign carrier and crew that treats their customers well, just to get a taste of how things used to be done in this country. I highly recommend Air New Zealand, Swiss Air and Canadian and Icelandic for starters. Follow up with any Asian based company whose service is beyond anything US fliers EVER offered.
23
Exactly - you're too young. There actually was a time in the not so distant past when rows were not crammed together so closely and you could actually stretch out your legs without having to buy 'extra space' seats. When you had space to get up even when your tray table was lowered. When every flight was not filled to capacity and there were actually a few empty seats and space that you could find an empty row and stretch out.
I just flew Asiana Airlines to/from Australia in business class and what a pleasant surprise compared to United business class. Extremely attentive service and you could have extra bottles of water when requested. The restrooms were spotless, and were continuously cleaned throughout the flight. Everyone was extremely polite and courteous. I would not hesitate to fly them again.
I just flew Asiana Airlines to/from Australia in business class and what a pleasant surprise compared to United business class. Extremely attentive service and you could have extra bottles of water when requested. The restrooms were spotless, and were continuously cleaned throughout the flight. Everyone was extremely polite and courteous. I would not hesitate to fly them again.
8
The whole point of deregulation of the airlines was to increase competition. What has happened instead are mega-mergers, leading to the point where little competition exists on most major routes. Now, four airlines control 85 percent of the domestic market. The flying public is crammed sardine-like into ever more packed aircraft, even as we are charged extra for what used to be part of our airfare -- like luggage.
So much for the "free market" bringing consumers any benefits.
So much for the "free market" bringing consumers any benefits.
339
"The whole point of deregulation of the airlines was to increase competition."
That was never REALLY the point. The REAL point of deregulation is to redistribute wealth upward. Please introduce me to the corporate executive who, upon hearing that regulations for his or her industry have been gutted, says: "Oh goody. More competition." No, what he or she says is: "Get me Mergers & Acquisitions. Finally, we get to shrink the industry, kill competition, and gouge! My dream come true."
That was never REALLY the point. The REAL point of deregulation is to redistribute wealth upward. Please introduce me to the corporate executive who, upon hearing that regulations for his or her industry have been gutted, says: "Oh goody. More competition." No, what he or she says is: "Get me Mergers & Acquisitions. Finally, we get to shrink the industry, kill competition, and gouge! My dream come true."
3
"deregulation" is a political term used to placate a gullible public into thinking that such a thing is possible. Why do you think a political party/politician speaks of the need for "deregulation" which really means "pay back my corporate funders".
3
the free market only benefits corporations, deregulation only helps them, there Is no trickle down for people, never has been, all republican rhetoric.
The average American who wants to fly is at the mercy of collusion, cronyism, cartels, and Congressional convenience. Business as usual. And the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
Airlines are heavily subsidized in one form or another by taxpayers. Meanwhile, Amtrak, especially its long distance routes, is micromanaged and starved, leaving it on the edge of oblivion. Why? Largely because Members of Congress take planes, not trains, except between Washington and New York.
The airlines can all miraculously come up with the same policies and not be prosecuted under anti-trust laws. The airlines can go bankrupt and rise again. And again. And again. The airlines can call what they charge by a dozen different euphemisms and never be held to truth-in-advertising standards. The airlines can spend zillions buying Members of Congress. Airlines can pretty much do whatever they want. Amtrak may not.
It's worth repeating: this has become business as usual, and yet the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
Airlines are heavily subsidized in one form or another by taxpayers. Meanwhile, Amtrak, especially its long distance routes, is micromanaged and starved, leaving it on the edge of oblivion. Why? Largely because Members of Congress take planes, not trains, except between Washington and New York.
The airlines can all miraculously come up with the same policies and not be prosecuted under anti-trust laws. The airlines can go bankrupt and rise again. And again. And again. The airlines can call what they charge by a dozen different euphemisms and never be held to truth-in-advertising standards. The airlines can spend zillions buying Members of Congress. Airlines can pretty much do whatever they want. Amtrak may not.
It's worth repeating: this has become business as usual, and yet the pundits wonder why Sanders and Trump resonate so broadly among the American people.
210
One of the reasons why I try to fly as least as possible. Flying ain't what it used to be....
56
It's the greed of the airlines that's keeping my family and me from flying somewhere for spring break. The airlines reap billions in profits, most of which will go to their executives and shareholders, and then have the nerve to charge passengers a fuel surcharge when fuel prices are historically low. We're planning to take a driving trip instead. I hope many more people follow our example. Maybe some empty seats would show the airlines what they're actually reaping with their policies.
337
Dan, the airlines watch the seats sell and their algorithms adjust prices minute by minute, they know exactly how much people are willing to pay. And with prices published across a thousand online sales platforms, all the airlines know exactly what their competitors are charging at any moment for any flight. With all that transparency, the airlines don't have to collude to avoid overcapacity and price collapse. When prices get too soft in any given market, they deploy capacity to markets with higher demand. It's a basic principle of economics that cost of production has no relationship to price of a good of service. Price is determined by supply and demand, sound familiar? Cost is crucial when determining whether one can enter and compete in a market, not in setting prices once established in that market.
3
Good point, John. Still, if millions decided suddenly to stop flying unless they really needed to, the airlines would notice it.
3
Thanks for your spot buddy! For those of us who can, we'll gladly take you're seat!
As long as we keep flying, airlines will keep prices high.
The day people say no is the day prices come down
it is called supply and demand.
The day people say no is the day prices come down
it is called supply and demand.
14
Few can say no to flying. It is about monopoly on the supply side.
The results of the 'unfettered free market"? Its stuff like this that makes Sanders (and, even more so, Warren) the attractive alternative, as the government shifts away from consumer protection toward a blind eye to the corporate 'person'.
27
Low cost carriers who dare to compete with the big guys who control the routes they're after find out he hard way what it's like to be squeezed like a lemon. Republicans love businesses just so long as they are big, rich and contribute to the right politicians. Except for fast foods free markets and serious competition in US businesses no longer exists, thanks to Congress and the Supreme Court who have a serious aversion to market place competition and free enterprise.
15
The Obama administration (guess what, Obama is a democrat) has had 7 years to combat competition reducing airline mergers. They did nothing. Hence the persistently high airfares that were elevated initially with the excuse of high fuel costs. Given the vastly reduced fuel costs, you would see lower fares if the industry had properly been forced to remain more competitive. Obama has failed, yet you blame Republicans only. Narrow minded partisanship cripples our government.
9
The major airline that I work for still requires me to work up to six days a year for free. Cheap oil and record profits be damned!
118
Maybe you should explain the details of how the major airline that you work for still requires you to work up to six days a year for free. A lot of us would be interested!
4
During bankruptcy, when the company terminated our pensions and our retirement medical benefits, reduced our vacation and cut our sick days to 5 per year, they came up with another give back "reserve days". Each employee, in my work classification, has 6 days off, in a selected month, designated as reserve days. If there is an open shift due to a sick call, or operational problems as determined by the company, you are given one hours notice to come in on what was a day off, and work up to 8 hours for no additional pay.
7
Can you explain how you can work up to six days a year for free? On the surface, at least, that sounds illegal. Is there more to it?
We have to thank the Justice Dept for allowing all of those airline mergers to occur for the high airfares. For those that refer to Obama as a progressive President, the lack of opposition to those mergers and the lack of prosecution of Wall Street executives for the fraud that helped cause the last recession are examples that counter that description of him.
121
You're right, Reuven K. Obama was a moderate Democrat in some areas, a conservative one in many other areas. It's right-wing media/pundits that are so far right that they repeatedly call a conservative Democrat a "liberal"! Then corporate media picks up their terminology.
1
I don't mind the fares not dropping, but please get the seat in front of me out of my kneecaps!
8
5 1/2 hours. No peanuts. Little bathroom access. Selling food is more important than our bladders and kidneys. Thanks UNITED.
118
Sounds like the big 4 are colluding to maintain prices and profits. Great opportunity for Jetblue to increase market share.
8
Time for the government to step in and investigate price fixing.
I fly to Europe frequently. Flights to Europe this summer are more expensive than they've ever been, despite the low price of gas. There's absolutely no reason why a summer flight that, in the past five years, cost between $900-1200 should this summer cost $1700.
The airlines are colluding, and it's time for the government to step in and level fines against this illegal activity.
I fly to Europe frequently. Flights to Europe this summer are more expensive than they've ever been, despite the low price of gas. There's absolutely no reason why a summer flight that, in the past five years, cost between $900-1200 should this summer cost $1700.
The airlines are colluding, and it's time for the government to step in and level fines against this illegal activity.
602
The problem is, government didn't step in when it should have and prevent the type of airline consolidation that's led to the current situation.
11
What government? The republicans? They do not even have the nerve to subpoena the governor of Michigan after he poisoned the entire city of Flint!
We have no group of elected officials who represent the people. That system is LONG GONE.
Feel the Bern!
We have no group of elected officials who represent the people. That system is LONG GONE.
Feel the Bern!
31
You can get much better prices to Europe by searching the European airlines directly. Doing some spot-checking, I can find many fares with European airlines that are almost HALF the price of the US airline fares. How can such a huge discrepancy exist? Those that pray at the temple of the free market tell us this shouldn't happen, so it's clear that the US airline industry is no longer a competitive market.
6
Flown some 3 million miles over a long period of time. Net is, airlines cannot make it in a conventional competitive environment. They deploy a fragmented business model, of many unions, varying fuel cost, weather, and financing. So deregulation allowed many new, and not long lasting competitors,( some weaseled in on good route's). Well that didn't work, and service deteriorated. So now we have an Oligopoly of just a few. Oligopolies avoid Monoply legislation, with the DOJ.
6
I'm not a fan of mergers and less competition, but a silver lining to this is that it is nice to see airlines operating more efficiently. Air travel is the least efficient transportation-related input to global warming, so the fuller the flight the better. And, you didn't mention there are still alternatives: I've had recent flights on Virgin America and Jet Blue that are much, much nicer than legacy carriers like United...and cheaper.
5
Why would they lower fares? For so many destinations there is no competition. The Comcast syndrome.
446
Amen.
This seems to be the guiding principal of most, if not all American business. Whine that you have to raise prices because x costs more. But never, ever reduce those prices, even if the x factor costs less.
45
I would like to know why all foreign carriers offer meals and snacks even on short, 3 hours flights. They also have very nice polite staff. I do every search I can to make every flight with a foreign airline. I am sick of the bad treatment and service.
541
Because many of those international flag carriers are heavily subsidized by their governments.
8
if you fly to asia, singapore or cathay are th best
1
unions
4
This is what happens when the government allow consolidation in an industry with significant barriers to entry: less competition and collusion to keep fares artificially high. We need more competition in this space.
12
I want legroom. The airlines should make a profit, but passenger comfort should be brought back. These cattle cars they call airplanes are ridiculous.
99
You are free to pay for extra legroom on some carriers, like United. The cost to upgrade is fairly low. What exactly are you complaining about?
6
Used to be fairly low...it can be 30-40% uptick on the "base fare" for a multi-leg trip now. The price I'm routinely shaken down for to get my 6'6" self from A to B with a modicum of dignity. Wasn't that long ago a flight attendant just moved me into an exit row after just taking a look at me. "Unbundling" has gotten out of hand....
10
But are you willing to pay more for the ticket to compensate for the lost revenue from the removed rows of seats?
American did this very thing back in the 1990s. Huge splashy advertising campaign announcing more legroom throughout the Main Cabin.
Then they added a few bucks to the ticket price so they still made money.
Need I even tell you what happened?
People flocked, in droves, to their competitors who had a cheaper ticket.
American quietly put the rows of seats right back in and lost a fortune in labor costs and down time for the airplanes all because people who claimed they wanted more legroom refused to pay a slightly higher base fare for that very thing.
Don't blame the airlines for the lack of legroom; blame your fellow passengers.
American did this very thing back in the 1990s. Huge splashy advertising campaign announcing more legroom throughout the Main Cabin.
Then they added a few bucks to the ticket price so they still made money.
Need I even tell you what happened?
People flocked, in droves, to their competitors who had a cheaper ticket.
American quietly put the rows of seats right back in and lost a fortune in labor costs and down time for the airplanes all because people who claimed they wanted more legroom refused to pay a slightly higher base fare for that very thing.
Don't blame the airlines for the lack of legroom; blame your fellow passengers.
2
The federal government desperately needs to take two actions that will go a long way towards restoring competition to the airline industry:
1) Break up the existing US airlines
2) Allow foreign airlines to provide domestic service
1) Break up the existing US airlines
2) Allow foreign airlines to provide domestic service
107
Gee, then it will be just like the US Merchant Marine, won't it?
1
If we allowed foreign airlines to fly domestic routes, the airline industry would go the same way the shipping industry did...staffed entirely by labor from third world countries. If we keep doing that to all our industries, everything will be very inexpensive, but where will Americans work?
We can do it, but be careful what you wish for.
We can do it, but be careful what you wish for.
4
1. Why?
Are companies not allowed to make profits? I'd rather have a profitable airline paying decent wages to the thousands of people that keep these magical flying machines safely aloft for the duration of my flight.
2. And what would this do? If you think you would get Emirates top notch service flying from Omaha to Chicago that you would get flying them from Dubai to Los Angeles, I have some very bad news for you.
Are companies not allowed to make profits? I'd rather have a profitable airline paying decent wages to the thousands of people that keep these magical flying machines safely aloft for the duration of my flight.
2. And what would this do? If you think you would get Emirates top notch service flying from Omaha to Chicago that you would get flying them from Dubai to Los Angeles, I have some very bad news for you.
1
"Passengers get peanuts." No we don't.
15
Well, I did on a domestic Delta flight last Monday, about 2 hrs. flight time.
Time for a little re-regulation.
40
when our government allows these guys to have monopolies they should demand contracts with them around the price of oil. i guess nobody expected oil to go down in price but now we know.
its the same with coffee prices. starbucks doesnt lower prices when coffee prices go down but they sure raise them when the coffee price goes up
its the same with coffee prices. starbucks doesnt lower prices when coffee prices go down but they sure raise them when the coffee price goes up
10
Why should companies not charge whatever the market will bear? And why shouldn't airlines be permitted to make a profit?
I'd rather American Airlines be profitable than back in bankruptcy, that's for sure.
I'd rather American Airlines be profitable than back in bankruptcy, that's for sure.
3
Roger Binion "why shouldn't airlines be permitted to make a profit?"
What an odd question. Greenwald didn't say anything like that. She refers to the common observation that companies often cite costs when they raise prices, but that when the costs go down, prices usually continue to rise.
The implied criticism is that their profits are excessive, not that the companies 'shouldn't make a profit.'
The habitual slimy dishonesty of the average corporation is eagerly imitated by toadies who ask transparently insincere rhetorical questions on blogs.
What an odd question. Greenwald didn't say anything like that. She refers to the common observation that companies often cite costs when they raise prices, but that when the costs go down, prices usually continue to rise.
The implied criticism is that their profits are excessive, not that the companies 'shouldn't make a profit.'
The habitual slimy dishonesty of the average corporation is eagerly imitated by toadies who ask transparently insincere rhetorical questions on blogs.
For the last two years, I have opted not to fly whenever possible because of the cattle car packaging of passengers flying economy class and the high price of air fares. I have driven round trips from Washington to Wisconsin twice, and from Washington to Illinois once. Seating is much more comfortable, and although it takes several days longer, sightseeing is much improved! I heartily recommend driving whenever possible. If America's trains were better, I'd travel by rail as well, but they would need to improve their speed and reliability before I would tackle that avenue.
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Totally understand since I'm in the same situation as you are.
At least the train from Vancouver to Eugene is a pleasure (and doesn't take that much longer than driving).
At least the train from Vancouver to Eugene is a pleasure (and doesn't take that much longer than driving).
2
Ditto: ATL to DC, Orlando, NY, PA. w fill ups as dictated by GasBuddy.
Try MegaBus too for intermediate distance trips!
Sometimes I fly there and bus back.
Try MegaBus too for intermediate distance trips!
Sometimes I fly there and bus back.
Once again the airlines are proving that the price of a ticket is not determined by their costs, but rather by what customers are willing to pay.
Nobody was demanding that they raise prices when when they were losing billions.
These glory days will fade and the tables will turn and the profits will shrink. It is the nature of a boom or bust industry where the value of an unused seat goes to zero the minute the flight leaves the gate.
Nobody was demanding that they raise prices when when they were losing billions.
These glory days will fade and the tables will turn and the profits will shrink. It is the nature of a boom or bust industry where the value of an unused seat goes to zero the minute the flight leaves the gate.
4
Fuel prices go up, fares go up. Fuel prices go down, fares stay up.
I'm not saying the airlines should face increased regulation from the Federal Government, but what they're doing now should be Exhibit A to silence those reflexive mouth breathers who can only tell us that everything the government does is bad for its constituents (citizens) and everything private enterprise does is good for its customers. "Free enterprise is not insulated from consumer pressure and has to respond to market forces for the good of consumers...."
1) The check is in the mail, and 2) we airlines care about our customers....
I'm not saying the airlines should face increased regulation from the Federal Government, but what they're doing now should be Exhibit A to silence those reflexive mouth breathers who can only tell us that everything the government does is bad for its constituents (citizens) and everything private enterprise does is good for its customers. "Free enterprise is not insulated from consumer pressure and has to respond to market forces for the good of consumers...."
1) The check is in the mail, and 2) we airlines care about our customers....
14
"As a result, airlines have placed extraordinary emphasis on what industry insiders call 'capacity discipline' — not adding seats faster than demand."
So the airlines are embracing 'capacity discipline' just as the oil producers move away from it. From the ashes of one cartel emerge another...
So the airlines are embracing 'capacity discipline' just as the oil producers move away from it. From the ashes of one cartel emerge another...
22
Well now that the airlines have merged into the handful remaining they have little competition to bring prices back down. It'd be nice if they would get rid of the baggage fees at least.
4