Great story with a nice twist at the end :)
2
No matter what century we're in, a guy will not waste time with a girl he's not romantically interested in. Certainly not two months initiating texts, emails, and calls, asking about her day and weekend plans. His way of communicating his interest to Lindsey was strange, and easily sent mixed signals, but in his mind, clearly he was "showing" his interest.
If a guy has no romantic interest in a girl, he'd probably ghost or make up some strange excuse. Back in college, I Facebook-messaged a guy for his number (in you know those subtle girl ways-- oh hey, can you show me something) and his response was, "Oh... I lost just my cellphone."
The next day, I bumped into him while he was chatting up a storm with his cellphone pressed against his face.
If a guy has no romantic interest in a girl, he'd probably ghost or make up some strange excuse. Back in college, I Facebook-messaged a guy for his number (in you know those subtle girl ways-- oh hey, can you show me something) and his response was, "Oh... I lost just my cellphone."
The next day, I bumped into him while he was chatting up a storm with his cellphone pressed against his face.
3
Did this once.....one date and several weeks of texting...then he asked for my photo, I said that was kind of strange....never heard from him again, apparently I was the crazy one?
1
Wait, I'm confused. If she wanted to have a date with him, why didn't she just ask him? When he asked 'what are your plans for this weekend', why didn't she just say 'None. Want to go grab a coffee?"? I see lots of game playing on her part.
9
I have a texter in my life. Personally, I like it. Conversations can be short or long depending on the subject, and there is no playing phone tag. Phone tag is a real issue, by the way. People don't pick up their phones nearly as often for anything these days! As another commenter mentioned, texting is also a way of developing friendship first. It isn't nearly as heavy as phone calls and can be a lot more playful.
1
A few years ago, I met a guy at a mutual friend's party -- tall, cute in a geeky skinny way, with a nice face. We hit it off and chatted all through the evening. The next day he sent me a facebook message saying he really enjoyed talking with me and was wondering if I would like to go out to dinner. I was floored. In the 21st century, a man in his early 30s met a woman, openly acknowledged that he liked her, and asked her out on a legitimate date. No games, no Netflix and chill, an actual date.
For the record, he's a wonderful husband and father to our kids.
For the record, he's a wonderful husband and father to our kids.
22
There's something about the written word that's irresistible:
LOL
BFN
BF/GF
BTW
DWBH
J4H
The modern language of love. I feel butterflies in my stomach every time I ROFL is sent to me by a women I might actually be interested in.
LOL
BFN
BF/GF
BTW
DWBH
J4H
The modern language of love. I feel butterflies in my stomach every time I ROFL is sent to me by a women I might actually be interested in.
1
Seriously, I didn't see that ending coming and am surprised it worked out that way. She was way more patient than I would have been; I would have probably assumed he had me on the hook while dating other people, and would have moved on. It really isn't that difficult to be up-front, even in a text. I find texting to be very passive-aggressive at times in relationships of all sorts; I have ended so-called friendships that didn't involve meeting, laughing and having some fun, but instead consisted of a once in a while text saying "Thinking of you". Huh.
4
I could totally relate to some situations in this essay, especially the ones from the beginning - texting, then lack of it, expectations and being on edge all the time. When you get into the whole texting circus it somehow possesses you because you are checking if the person's seen your texts (especially via messengers), and if he/she did why they didn't reply. Then you sit and wait who is going to make the first move like the whole things is a competition and you spend most of your time thinking if you should play it cool or not, and accept that people communicate in different ways. Then you over-analyse and create a bunch of reasons and scenarios in your head of how could things be or what could happen. It's a circus!
6
Interestingly, back in my Match.com days, one of the most obnoxious, condescending and downright douchy guys I went out with had the best demeaner in regards to texting. He wouldn't do it. Maybe because at the time he was 10 years my senior, and at 37, he didn't grow up with texting as the same means to communicate as I did.
I appreciated the fact that he would call me to set up a date, call me to confirm, and call me just to chat. However this was quickly overshadowed by the fact he complained I had "no snacks" in my house and ate all my peanut butter, believed that "women don't have a place in NCAA sports" and likened my apartment to "something out of a third world country".
He was, however, very hot and we had great chemistry... The best part of never having once texted him? I never felt the urge to get in contact after we broke up, because there was no witty banter to scroll through and tempt me into getting back in touch!
I appreciated the fact that he would call me to set up a date, call me to confirm, and call me just to chat. However this was quickly overshadowed by the fact he complained I had "no snacks" in my house and ate all my peanut butter, believed that "women don't have a place in NCAA sports" and likened my apartment to "something out of a third world country".
He was, however, very hot and we had great chemistry... The best part of never having once texted him? I never felt the urge to get in contact after we broke up, because there was no witty banter to scroll through and tempt me into getting back in touch!
3
The real the real story is how she did not express her true feelings until she got mad? Why not express them well before your boiling point?
2
Some women are socialized not to express unpleasant feelings. They can't do it until they get mad enough to let their anger take over. I saw this growing up, and realized how destructive it is, even though I was socialized the same way. It took some effort at first for me to identify those early feelings of irritation and open my mouth and express myself to the person who could solve my problem, not keeping it inside and not venting to a safe friend. But it gets much better results all around than a tantrum does, and over time becomes easier and more natural.
1
So what's the takeaway here? Play along and wait for the immature man in your life to eventually decide to give you a chance? Why was he not held accountable for such silly behavior? I don't know how the author was so happy to accept anything from him, no questions asked.
4
The happy ending made this completely unrelatable to about 99% of single women in NYC
17
Why is that relevant to the piece written here?
I offer my best to the author happily married even with texting shenanigans. I applaud her patience and assertiveness–she did what felt right to her (most important) and it worked out. However, I feel the author’s story is the exception – and, even if it is not; it reinforces a terrible dating trend. I wish the article would have put more of the onus on guys. I’m in my 30s and it really feels like guys do not know how to date. The sudden disappearing acts, long absences between texts, and 'leaving' a texting 'conversation' in the middle are just plain rude and not the behavior of a guy/girl who genuinely desires to be in a relationship. People would never use such haphazard communication in in their jobs or with clients – which means they know how to communicate, and yet somehow reserve this lackadaisical behavior for dating. This article correctly focuses on a new, frustrating phenomenon, where oftentimes you can't even get TO a first date to even begin to get to know each other. I hear equally disappointing stories from guys who ardently try to reach out to girls – who have already agreed to a date – and the girls do not text back. All of it needs to stop. Let’s bring back the ‘retro’ art, excitement, and humanness, of taking the time to get to know each other even in ‘modern’ dating. May we all find love this year.
16
I had this experience with a serial texter, and became frustrated. So I asked him out to a movie. We went, and then he went back to texting without asking for another date. So I closed that chapter easily. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, no harm, no foul.
4
My wife tells me that she liked that after our first date I picked up the phone, called her and said hi, I had a nice time, I'd like to see you again, instead of texting hey, how's it going, like I was too busy, or too cool to do anything else.
Men text and beat around the bush because they are afraid of rejection, so having a "text relationship" without ever actually asking someone out seems like you're still doing something, without the risk. But it shows a lack of confidence and that is not attractive.
Men text and beat around the bush because they are afraid of rejection, so having a "text relationship" without ever actually asking someone out seems like you're still doing something, without the risk. But it shows a lack of confidence and that is not attractive.
18
And it's bloodless. Plus, women appreciate it when a man takes a risk to ask her out; it shows he is interested enough to do so. Asking via text sounds like "oh, well, I have nothing better to do, so I guess we could maybe hang out."
3
This would have been more interesting if it had included Thomas's reasons for not asking her out. Did her weekends always sound like they were full of plans? Sounds like she always sounded incredibly busy to him, despite her perception that she was leaving time slots open for him. Not everybody likes to be doing stuff 24/7.
5
He probably wasn't confident enough that she was interested, because she wouldn't just say it. Her revelation at the end that she was too old to be playing "games" is very refreshing. It can be frustrating for men to always have the responsibility of sussing out interest and taking the initiative because so many women still cling to the "you need to play it cool/ hard to get" mentality (as the author states her mother taught her). It's baffling how many women, who are so clearly confident and motivated in other areas of their life, still resort only to dropping hints and expecting men to act for them, rather than just being honest and confident enough to ask for what they want directly in romantic relationships. It's especially upsetting when men, who are equally susceptable to insecurity and uncertainty, then recieve the sole blame for being "immature" or "uncommitted", as if the idea of the other party having an equal responsibility or power to take the initiative is simply out of the question. It just shows that archaic gender roles (women need to be actively chased to be valuable, men need to be always the controlling party to be a worthwhile partner) still very much have their hooks in those of us who would like to think of ourselves as modern, empowered members of the dating world.
2
Where I am from, Italy (but I guess it is very similar in all of Southern Europe), there is no such thing as a hesitant man. If a man "hesitates", it is because he is seeing someone else and wants to see how it ends up before getting serious with the person he is "hesitant" about.
Because of this cultural limitation, I find this story incomplete. I wish the author had explained what made the new husband "hesitant", as no one (over here) is just simply "hesitant"...
Because of this cultural limitation, I find this story incomplete. I wish the author had explained what made the new husband "hesitant", as no one (over here) is just simply "hesitant"...
12
This reads like a sci-fi story about someone from the 1950s being dropped into the year 2000. What is this strange machine that beeps? What is this flirty-flaky-behavior? Must I forever leave my weekends blank and sit beside the texting-machine? It is sad but absolutely in no way insightful.
8
For a potential romantic partner to ask on Friday if one has weekend plans and on Monday how the weekend went, over and over, is about the sorriest courtship I have ever heard of. The end of this story was a shocker and not heartwarming but deeply depressing.
10
Is it my english perspective or is there something odd here. He asks her out, then she complains that he doesn't ask her out again but only contacts here intermittently. Perhaps he is keeping his distance as the ball in now in her court. Perhaps he is allowed her space to decide whether to ask here without putting pressure on her. Why does she sit and stew and decide "He either had to ask me out on a real date, in person, or I would put an end to this silliness. "
3
Nice one! Loved the ending. Very easy read. Keep it up, Lindsey!
These communication devices are used by humans. The way they are used tell us a lot about the humans using them. This guy is an outlier for sure. When you're really interested in some one, no matter what communication medium you're using, you make that interest known. He was either lazy, "shopping", using her as an emotional support system, or none of the above. Maybe just lazy..and the device exacerbated that tendency. Personally I hate texting and prefer email or the phone. Texting is intrusive and requires immediate answers to questions we may not have the answers to yet...or the interest or energy to answer them.
3
Good for you Lindsey. Great story.
Having been married for 30 years I have zero insight into dating, but texts done right (sans ghosting) can be fun. It's asynchronous, so if you are feeling inspired you can put a moment into coming up with a witty or suggestive reply. Sometimes that can go on for quite a while, during which the person is in your thoughts most of the time.
Great way to spice up a long meeting.
Having been married for 30 years I have zero insight into dating, but texts done right (sans ghosting) can be fun. It's asynchronous, so if you are feeling inspired you can put a moment into coming up with a witty or suggestive reply. Sometimes that can go on for quite a while, during which the person is in your thoughts most of the time.
Great way to spice up a long meeting.
I've had a "relationship" the resembles to that one, but in a rather different setting.
The major differences are: I was 15 years old at the time, and me and the "texter" lived in different states.
I met him trought a friend of my family when we were traveling together, and we spent a day together (with other friends as well). At the time I didn't feel any connection with him, but he got my number and we started talking to each other. Unlike most of my friends, I'd never had patience with texting, so I was sure our conversation would die out soon.
That's not at all what happened, we kept talking for months, some times we flirted, sometimes we had deep conversations but mostly we just chatted friendly. Months later he started seeing a girl and we slowly stopped talking to each other, I can't say I developed real feelings for him, at least not in the romantic sense, but he was a comfortable part of my routine for a few months, and I believe that period helped me grow into a more straight foward woman when it comes to dating.
The major differences are: I was 15 years old at the time, and me and the "texter" lived in different states.
I met him trought a friend of my family when we were traveling together, and we spent a day together (with other friends as well). At the time I didn't feel any connection with him, but he got my number and we started talking to each other. Unlike most of my friends, I'd never had patience with texting, so I was sure our conversation would die out soon.
That's not at all what happened, we kept talking for months, some times we flirted, sometimes we had deep conversations but mostly we just chatted friendly. Months later he started seeing a girl and we slowly stopped talking to each other, I can't say I developed real feelings for him, at least not in the romantic sense, but he was a comfortable part of my routine for a few months, and I believe that period helped me grow into a more straight foward woman when it comes to dating.
" texter"... This way of refer, makes writting as a first approuch looks like something new... That approuch method was used before as well : by writting letters. I would suggest many books, done entirely by letters exchanging, but my favorite is Kafka letters to Felice. If you can, don't miss that one!!
By the way, seems the real difference is timing. Before, people have to write by hand ( thinking about Kafka), go to the correo to send it, wait to the letter arrives to the right hands, wait an answer...
By the way, seems the real difference is timing. Before, people have to write by hand ( thinking about Kafka), go to the correo to send it, wait to the letter arrives to the right hands, wait an answer...
1
I'm probably a bit older than you are, but for me it's important that the woman also do some of the initiating. I try to make that clear at some point early on, and I'm willing to initiate the first couple of times, but after that if I don't get something back I consider that a sign of disinterest.
7
Feminism obviously has not reached this woman's dating world. The whole article begged the question why she did not ask him out, call him, or otherwise directly express her affection and desire. Take a risk like men have for years! Equal rights, equal effort.
10
Interesting how many people said she should have taken action - that never crossed my mind! And no, I am not a shy girl - have asked out plenty of guys.
In this case, I would have just thought he was lame and not worth asking out. Anyone who just throws up pointless texts like that (whether it is possible romance or my sibling) is just wasting time. We could be having a meaningful conversation, we could be doing something fun together or honestly, I could be cleaning the bathroom with a toothbrush.
The only reason I could see giving any response was curiosity - like being curious to find out what is going on!
In this case, I would have just thought he was lame and not worth asking out. Anyone who just throws up pointless texts like that (whether it is possible romance or my sibling) is just wasting time. We could be having a meaningful conversation, we could be doing something fun together or honestly, I could be cleaning the bathroom with a toothbrush.
The only reason I could see giving any response was curiosity - like being curious to find out what is going on!
6
"We weren’t even in a relationship, were we? What did persistent texting even qualify as?"
It qualifies as FRIENDSHIP and GETTING TO KNOW ANOTHER HUMAN.
Mysterious, i know.
It qualifies as FRIENDSHIP and GETTING TO KNOW ANOTHER HUMAN.
Mysterious, i know.
4
Lindsey, you came so close to "gaming" yourself out of your future. Women tend to think far too hard. He provided many opportunities for you to ask him out, or invite him over. Every SERIOUS relationship I've had involved the girl asking me out, or at least initiating contact. It is at that point men develop the confidence to kick the relationship out of the friend-zone.
6
I thought gaming meant deliberate attempts to manipulate. Here, I believe the two were just operating from different rule books.
Huh???
I hope they have a good marriage.
I'm almost a decade older than my sister. when she was in her mid-teens, I told her that if she was interested in a guy, she shouldn't wait for him to ask her out. I knew that for whatever stupid reason, sometimes guys would refrain, although if they were asked, they'd accept. (I'd had my own stupid reasons for doing this, such as being in love with someone in another city after a brief romantic encounter, but too far away for it to work; and another time not realizing that I was already interested in the woman, which I had demonstrated by spontaneously and without premeditation, picking her up, and she had given me a big smile if I just went out with her.) (We were friends, and we both knew the other was going out with someone, but both of those relationships were doomed.)
I think my sister was the one who first asked her husband out.
I hope they have a good marriage.
I'm almost a decade older than my sister. when she was in her mid-teens, I told her that if she was interested in a guy, she shouldn't wait for him to ask her out. I knew that for whatever stupid reason, sometimes guys would refrain, although if they were asked, they'd accept. (I'd had my own stupid reasons for doing this, such as being in love with someone in another city after a brief romantic encounter, but too far away for it to work; and another time not realizing that I was already interested in the woman, which I had demonstrated by spontaneously and without premeditation, picking her up, and she had given me a big smile if I just went out with her.) (We were friends, and we both knew the other was going out with someone, but both of those relationships were doomed.)
I think my sister was the one who first asked her husband out.
3
Entertaining story.
1
I was surprised buy the ending. I guess you should not judge a book by its cover.
2
OMG. Too much analyzing. Too little conversation.
1
Get over yourself! At ANY point in your exchange with him, you could have picked up the phone and called him. How absolutely shallow and petty on your part. Speak up. Was the guy supposed to have been a mind reader?
5
Hate to break it to you but despite this being 2016, many men do not appear to like to have women be the proactive person in a dating situation. The question you should pose is why would a man wait weeks to pass to ask a woman out after they both shared a great date? That kind of obtuse behavior is a drag, period, and disheartening. Glad they worked it out though in the end but it appears he needed to be woken up first and realize he was close to losing someone special.
14
Rosemary, stop, as a woman, telling us what men do and don't feel comfortable with. If you ask, with an open mind, we'll probably tell you. But assigning responsibility for one's own passivity to a group stereotype is contemptible. Take responsibility for your own actions.
2
Yup, definitely with Wine Country Dude on this one. "Many men" may not like women being proactive, but guess what, there are also "many men" who DO like it. Just like women, men are different from each other in their likes and dislikes. Odd concept, I know.
3
Good god, a passive initiator and a passive recipient. Your sex life must be amazing. Not.
11
You were lucky that Mr. Clumsy and Rather Unthoughtful turned out to be Mr. Right in the end. Not sure what the moral of the story is, however, since I rather doubt that that sort of luck is common now, or was then.
3
I'm curious about the logistics of this story. The author writes: "A few years later, the Texter and I married. And now, seven years after that, we have two children..."
So assuming " a few years" is about three years, plus seven years after that, puts this story taking place 10 years ago, in 2006. From my memory, smartphones (or more basic phones that facilitated pen pal texting in terms of number of messages stored or saved conversations), unlimited texting plans, etc. weren't as pervasive as they are now. Even if it was, I definitely don't remember texting being as integrated into our lifestyle as it is now. Assuming that's the case, how is she and the Texter conducting this entire relationship via text? Seems a bit odd...
N.B. I am aware that there are more substantive portions of this article that merit some form of comment or response, but since the other commenters seem to have that covered, I figured I'd venture this thought instead.
So assuming " a few years" is about three years, plus seven years after that, puts this story taking place 10 years ago, in 2006. From my memory, smartphones (or more basic phones that facilitated pen pal texting in terms of number of messages stored or saved conversations), unlimited texting plans, etc. weren't as pervasive as they are now. Even if it was, I definitely don't remember texting being as integrated into our lifestyle as it is now. Assuming that's the case, how is she and the Texter conducting this entire relationship via text? Seems a bit odd...
N.B. I am aware that there are more substantive portions of this article that merit some form of comment or response, but since the other commenters seem to have that covered, I figured I'd venture this thought instead.
14
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that picked up on that. What gives?
The texter in this story needed to be slapped, though. What an idiot.
The texter in this story needed to be slapped, though. What an idiot.
3
Must admit, it makes me question the veracity of the whole story.
We didn't have full-on text conversations in 2006.
We didn't have full-on text conversations in 2006.
1
I will admit that texting has a very high comfort level compared to face-to-face conversation. There is no body language to worry about, no issues with tone of voice, no disastrous pauses at the wrong time, no weird facial expressions. And it is slower than talk, so you can spend some time constructing a thought and getting it worded right before you hit 'send'.
So I totally understand the popularity of texting and it is easy to see how it can play a role in keeping a connection from dying. Sooner or later there does have to be a 'face-to-face' though.
Keep in mind: don't text and drive :)
p.s. Don't under-rate the intimacy of text. There are online worlds in which relationships that are entirely text based occur. I've been there and done that. And I know of marriages that resulted in real life.
So I totally understand the popularity of texting and it is easy to see how it can play a role in keeping a connection from dying. Sooner or later there does have to be a 'face-to-face' though.
Keep in mind: don't text and drive :)
p.s. Don't under-rate the intimacy of text. There are online worlds in which relationships that are entirely text based occur. I've been there and done that. And I know of marriages that resulted in real life.
4
Experiences like this make me think texting is on its way out. People are way too passive-aggressive with text.
2
We (heterosexual women) can't change the double standard on our own. Here's how it is: If a man doesn't text, he's not interested. If a man doesn't ask a woman out, he's not interested. If a woman doesn't text, she's not interested OR she's *interested but waiting.* So if a woman asks a man out first, the man is by social definition not interested. I wish it didn't work this way, but it does. The norm is enforced in many ways. (1) Repetition of the pattern keeps women from texting first and facing certain rejection. (2) Men lose interest in a woman simply *because* she asks him out first. This is subtle and harder to detect. They will deny it and give other reasons why they're not interested. And of course there are counterexamples where a woman asks out a shy guy and they have a great relationship. But objectively analyze your own relationship history and the prevailing pop culture narratives we internalize. The standard is that men who pursue women are normal and women who pursue men should find a better hobby.
17
As a male, I too dislike this standard of men having to initiate. Puts me at a disadvantage because I am not the assertive type.
2
I guess the system forces many people to fight their natures! But maybe we can collectively change it by encouraging women to initiate and encouraging society at large to respect women who initiate.
I am a man and do not feel this way at all. Never have. Actually, I LOVE it when a woman asks me out, and I expect we will be able to talk normally about our dating lives without games. I don't put myself in society's Man Box, nor should you.
3
Good for you ! I agree with everything you did and am thrilled to hear your happy ending! (I'm probably your mom's age and of course text but not long conversations)
3
What a happy and unexpected ending! That said, your husband was clueless. Did you ever talk to him about how his bizarre and flawed style of communication (if you can call it that) almost ended your relationship before it ever began?
6
Your mom, who is probably my age, was wrong. You should have called and asked him out first.
6
Glad there's a happy ending. Gotta say though, all that minute analysis that occurs...." what exactly did he say again and why did he say it and what should I have done instead" ....it is a cross between funny and sad.
Women have more of this 'ruminating' tendency I think, but I suffered my own agonies as a man. I'm really glad I'm past this. It is mostly a twenties and thirties disease suffered by singles.
Women have more of this 'ruminating' tendency I think, but I suffered my own agonies as a man. I'm really glad I'm past this. It is mostly a twenties and thirties disease suffered by singles.
3
While it makes a good title, I don't think texting is the issue here. Rather, it's men and women no longer quite knowing what roles to perform in these times. The author says she is still old-fashioned and expects the man to make the move, but obviously does not seem to give the signals to encourage him, perhaps worrying that she might appear too desperate (or, given she's already divorced once, and states in this article she's not exactly looking to get back into the market, that's exactly the vibes she gives off) . In any event, a second date does not mean they are now a couple.
So Mr Texter probably thinks a friendly, occasional text would be a nice friendly way to maintain communication, less intrusive, less pushy than calling, while trying to figure out where they are at. If this method of communication did not exist, he might have tried to see if he could run into her with her friend, or given up altogether.
While I am no fan of texting, in this particular case, if anything, texting might have allowed them to retain some connection instead of separating them forever
So Mr Texter probably thinks a friendly, occasional text would be a nice friendly way to maintain communication, less intrusive, less pushy than calling, while trying to figure out where they are at. If this method of communication did not exist, he might have tried to see if he could run into her with her friend, or given up altogether.
While I am no fan of texting, in this particular case, if anything, texting might have allowed them to retain some connection instead of separating them forever
6
I'm originally from the UK and found texting got me in trouble with American women and I usually ended up having lengthy conversations explaining (on my part) what I really meant. In the UK we usually text with humor/irony and a touch of sarcasm in a harmless way (to us) and expect to get the same back. Phone calls are so much easier.
6
I agree! Much easier!!
1
British humor / sarcasm can be brilliant but is so lost on Americans - I can completely understand how this got you in trouble via text! LOL
2
Enjoyed this, and I think the other commenters are being way harsh on the writer.
But my biggest question wasn't answered! Why wasn't he asking her out? She must have asked him this at some point? Had he been dating someone else? (Author, please tell us.)
But my biggest question wasn't answered! Why wasn't he asking her out? She must have asked him this at some point? Had he been dating someone else? (Author, please tell us.)
12
That is completely irrelevant.
How so? Please explain.
5
The only thing more lame than texting is a story that goes "texting so is lame... this guy kept texting... and then we got married!"
9
She could have put a stop to this weird behavior very quickly.
Just stop, in the middle of a getting-too-long text session, and text him, "I'm here and have some time to talk, why not give me a phone call and we can talk more easily."
That would tell her instantly if he's ready to fish or just fooling around cutting bait.
Just stop, in the middle of a getting-too-long text session, and text him, "I'm here and have some time to talk, why not give me a phone call and we can talk more easily."
That would tell her instantly if he's ready to fish or just fooling around cutting bait.
9
31 is sooooo young. And to be so young in a culture of communication through multiple channels of technology has to be pretty rough.
I am a different generation (X) and definitely would have told this guy to "put up or shut up" as it were, if you'll excuse the legacy misogynistic turn of phrase, probably within the first 2 weeks.
I'm not a big phone talker except with my best friend, my mom, and now my current boyfriend. I don't have time to sit on the phone and chat - get to the point please. When I was doing the online dating thing there were plenty of guys who were more comfortable texting than actually talking, and I suspect a lot of single people active in the dating scene keep their options open and can therefore seem (appropriately so) lukewarm. I've been guilty of that myself.
I think this story is more a case of "you can't read another person's mind" than anything else. Maybe Texter thought she wasn't all that interested, but wasn't willing to cut his losses just in case. But she didn't know that because she also did not actually talk to him and state her romantic interest.
I am a different generation (X) and definitely would have told this guy to "put up or shut up" as it were, if you'll excuse the legacy misogynistic turn of phrase, probably within the first 2 weeks.
I'm not a big phone talker except with my best friend, my mom, and now my current boyfriend. I don't have time to sit on the phone and chat - get to the point please. When I was doing the online dating thing there were plenty of guys who were more comfortable texting than actually talking, and I suspect a lot of single people active in the dating scene keep their options open and can therefore seem (appropriately so) lukewarm. I've been guilty of that myself.
I think this story is more a case of "you can't read another person's mind" than anything else. Maybe Texter thought she wasn't all that interested, but wasn't willing to cut his losses just in case. But she didn't know that because she also did not actually talk to him and state her romantic interest.
1
Whenever I read these articles and comments that follow I'm reminded of my decisions not to date and to remain single with the intent of remaining that way for life. I just enjoy being single. It's great.
5
I agree completely with the gist of your comment though coming from a completely different place. Having been married 26 ( or is it 27) years, I'll just stay married.
3
Being the youngest of many siblings I was able to reflect a lot on those they got involved with. Then of course experimenting with dating and all that nonsense first hand I just decided singlehood has it's niceties. What's great is these days, my brothers especially the oldest ones who use to scorn me for not being out and about looking for someone..now sit across the dinner table on the occasions we come together as a family and look at me with envy. It's bittersweet I tell ya!
I met my wife on Match in 2001 and divorced her on text in 2009. I think we could have worked things out, or at least made everything less painful if we had actually talked. Don't try to revitalize love over something as emotionless as text. Now I know.
12
Are you serious? You really divorced your wife by text?
5
Here, at Buenos Aires, I listen quite often this kind of situation!
WHAT??
1
What a sad story. When is the divorce coming?
5
And then there is the trope that men are deeply threatened by bold, savvy no-nonsense women who know what they want and are unafraid to pursue it. I am somewhat surprised the author did not exhume it from a 1975 time capsule and use it to justify her own passivity.
"Hey, I would have been more direct but that would have threatened his male ego, and you just knooow how fragile they are. So my passivity is really his fault!"
"Hey, I would have been more direct but that would have threatened his male ego, and you just knooow how fragile they are. So my passivity is really his fault!"
3
I sure hope the author has finally grown up and learned to communicate like an adult. Something tells me that she's still a child, however, and still won't learn how to express herself. Get a life, girl.
7
The idea of communication is much easier than the execution of it. We all think we are great communicators, yet probably we fail at it at least once a day. Texting, Twitter, Facebook etc. are all "CliffsNotes" versions of having a real conversation. You can't gauge emotion or a persons true intentions with a text, and probably most of the people are multi-tasking when texting another person, so you become a side project rather than the main focus. Pick up the phone and have a conversation. Or, better yet, meet with that person and have a truly honest conversation. You just might be surprised.
16
I would love to see the modern love column from Thomas' point of view: "I asked her out very directly for our first date, then she never expressed any interest in going on another. I didn't want it to look like I was only interested in our relationship if it was romantic, so I stayed in touch as a friend..."
21
Yep. Obviously he did like her (he eventually married her).
It looks to me like she didn't give any sort of positive signal so he tread carefully. When he asked what her plans were for the weekend he was obviously trying to gauge her interest in him. I bet when he asked what her plans were, she came up with something that she was going to do (whether it was true or not). Then he didn't ask her out because she appeared to be busy.
HINT TO WOMEN: If you want a guy to ask you out on a certain weekend, and he asks you if you have plans, say "no, I don't have any plans". ...and if you're bold, say "no, I don't have any plans, wanna do something?"
It looks to me like she didn't give any sort of positive signal so he tread carefully. When he asked what her plans were for the weekend he was obviously trying to gauge her interest in him. I bet when he asked what her plans were, she came up with something that she was going to do (whether it was true or not). Then he didn't ask her out because she appeared to be busy.
HINT TO WOMEN: If you want a guy to ask you out on a certain weekend, and he asks you if you have plans, say "no, I don't have any plans". ...and if you're bold, say "no, I don't have any plans, wanna do something?"
4
I just finished a "short" relationship with a texter, who was never available on weekends and didn't want me to "meet" his roommate. A background check revealed that he was also 6 years older than he told me. Be careful. Texting is a good way to hide.
9
Holy smokes! A whole six years!
3
Sorry, but no sympathy here. I thought this kind of gender-role-playing nonsense had gone extinct. Natural Selection will eventually fix this.
3
Thank you for this essay. It has convinced me to finally end my subscription to 17 magazine. I can get my fix here at the NYT.
31
Best laugh of my day!
5
Where's the rest of the story? Why wasn't he texting?
11
So classic. Women young and old - news flash! If you want something, be calm and direct - and ask for it! Most of the time, you'll get what you want, and if you don't, you can better decide how to use your time well. But loose the chess board of guilt, shame, blame. Most men I know actually prefer women who are are direct and clear and honest. If we are ever going to loose this ancient gender baggage and behave as equals, then feel the situation out, take a risk and be authentic. You may be surprised at a gender byproduct. It's called mutual respect.
12
No text before marriage
11th commandment
Xxx
Mama millenial
11th commandment
Xxx
Mama millenial
9
I cannot believe a grown woman of 31 could not make a phone call, initiate a text, or suggest a date after they had already been communicating. This story completely frustrated me. This isn't the Victorian era!
18
Exactly. Relationships are built on mutual communication.
4
Agreed. The whole "my mom said" sounds like a 16 year old girl.
1
this has only encouraged me to broker a meeting amongst the talker
the telephoner, the gesticulator, the eyebrower, the texter, the emojier, the interruptor, and the silencer.
the telephoner, the gesticulator, the eyebrower, the texter, the emojier, the interruptor, and the silencer.
1
If you don't state your needs, they are less likely to get met. That said, these modern-age wimpy men and their passive courtship drives me crazy. I don't put up with it, but maybe that's why I'm single?
15
Reading this makes me so glad I met my wife in 1993 and married her in 1996, long before texting was even thought of. We had to do it the old-fashioned way - face to face or phone. Texting is so impersonal and hard to interpret. I don't think I could have succeeded in finding a partner if I'd had to navigate that sort of confusion.
8
In this case, the story has a happy ending. But this is no fairy tale. Had the author not made that final push, this relationship may have ended, never to restart. Even that is pure conjecture; we'll never really know, will we?
If someone likes you, they will ask you out.
if someone wants to see you, they will not drag it out.
If someone wants to be with you, they will find a way.
While I couldn't stand Thomas's modus operandi (for which the reader is never really given an explanation), I was happy that it ended the way it did - albeit quite surprised.
I hope you're both still married when you pen your follow-up in ten years, and I really mean that. All the best...
If someone likes you, they will ask you out.
if someone wants to see you, they will not drag it out.
If someone wants to be with you, they will find a way.
While I couldn't stand Thomas's modus operandi (for which the reader is never really given an explanation), I was happy that it ended the way it did - albeit quite surprised.
I hope you're both still married when you pen your follow-up in ten years, and I really mean that. All the best...
9
How one communicates during "dating" matters because of the "clues" offered to how one may communicate during marriage or while in a partnership. If one person is always waiting for the other person to initiate activities or contact during a dating process, this will most likely be their preferred mode of communicating during marriage whether the activity is when to visit the in-laws or when to have sex. "Cluelessness" is rarely cured by a marriage ceremony.
If one person avoids telephone calls or face to face meetings and chooses to text, red flags should go up about success for long-term partnerships or marriage. Texting by definition has little room for subtle messages and by definition keeps space between the person texting and the person receiving the text. Face to face, voice to voice, SKYPE are methods of communication which require more real-time assessment of the perceptions of the other person and offer more flexibility in correcting mixed or messages which have perception errors. A "texter" will probably need considerable help to be comfortable with emotional intimacy and even in-person serious relationships.
Cute story with the predictable happy ending, although the author clearly chose not to share most of the events between the "texting" phase and the "few years later (we) married" phase of this Modern Love story. I wish them a Happy Ever After.
If one person avoids telephone calls or face to face meetings and chooses to text, red flags should go up about success for long-term partnerships or marriage. Texting by definition has little room for subtle messages and by definition keeps space between the person texting and the person receiving the text. Face to face, voice to voice, SKYPE are methods of communication which require more real-time assessment of the perceptions of the other person and offer more flexibility in correcting mixed or messages which have perception errors. A "texter" will probably need considerable help to be comfortable with emotional intimacy and even in-person serious relationships.
Cute story with the predictable happy ending, although the author clearly chose not to share most of the events between the "texting" phase and the "few years later (we) married" phase of this Modern Love story. I wish them a Happy Ever After.
7
I think texting someone to ask them out on a date is an excellent way to do it. The feeling of rejection is much less than if he called and did it. But texting them endlessly to ask how they are seems rather silly.
9
How so? What stings is the rejection, the communication method does nothing to alleviate it.
I would assume that asking someone out on date via text would increase the likelihood of rejection. So less painful rejection - possibly, more frequent rejection - definitely!
Doing things the grown up way usually has a better outcome.
Doing things the grown up way usually has a better outcome.
Instead of weeks of texting back and forth, how about this: "...yes, I'm fine, but I'm not much of a texter. Would love to see you in person some time!"
30
You got it!
1
Great article. I've been there. We can get so caught up in traditional roles and second guessing that we forget to just communicate. He may have been asking her out every time he said "what are your plans for the weekend." And she was hearing 'just texting.' Say what you mean, mean what you say.
10
My wife died three years ago and I have been toying with the idea of dating again. This story brings back all the miserable dates I went on before I met my wife, all the unwritten rules, hidden agendas and mind games of the dating world. The differences between my wife and the other women I dated was that my wife was honest and upfront with me about what she wanted from a relationship; family, children, loyalty and monogamy. She asked me to not waist her time if I did not want the same things she wanted. I was impressed with her honesty and found it refreshing and attractive. We married six months later and I have been madly in love with her ever since For those of you currently navigating the dating world please consider honesty and transparency instead of looking for someone to decipher your secret code, I think you both will be happier.
33
I am so sorry for your loss. You have just described my dating/marriage story. Life is too short to waste time on texting.
4
First, I am sorry for your loss.
After a lifetime of empty dating I found - or was found by - a man who simply cannot grasp anything but honesty and transparency. It is a complete revelation to
me, he takes my breath away with the depth of love he thereby creates. I thank God for men like you!
After a lifetime of empty dating I found - or was found by - a man who simply cannot grasp anything but honesty and transparency. It is a complete revelation to
me, he takes my breath away with the depth of love he thereby creates. I thank God for men like you!
3
When I got to the end of this article, I thought, man this woman is lucky. Her husband sure didn't follow the typical pattern of the serial texter--guys who are so nonchalant about dating that they keep several on the string, reeling them in with sporadic texting.
I did online dating from 2007-20011, and never had this problem because, well, I was older, and I didn't yet have texting in my phone plan (dinosaur, I know). But, I imagine I might have been just as vulnerable and eager as the author, rearranging my schedule for a mythical invite, and letting a guy essentially call the shots. Even without texting, I allowed serial emailing to go on too long before it dawned on me that these guys were just killing time, and getting a vicarious thrill based on how long a woman responded.
Now, in a fulfilling relationship for 5 years with someone who certainly didn't my typical match criteria--eg, he says what he means, and means what he says--and I look back on those dating years, it seems pretty clear that if someone is truly interested, he'll show it. And vice versa.
So despite this happy ending, I still think that women more than men have unrealistic expectations about the meaning of texts without the commitment of an actual date.
I did online dating from 2007-20011, and never had this problem because, well, I was older, and I didn't yet have texting in my phone plan (dinosaur, I know). But, I imagine I might have been just as vulnerable and eager as the author, rearranging my schedule for a mythical invite, and letting a guy essentially call the shots. Even without texting, I allowed serial emailing to go on too long before it dawned on me that these guys were just killing time, and getting a vicarious thrill based on how long a woman responded.
Now, in a fulfilling relationship for 5 years with someone who certainly didn't my typical match criteria--eg, he says what he means, and means what he says--and I look back on those dating years, it seems pretty clear that if someone is truly interested, he'll show it. And vice versa.
So despite this happy ending, I still think that women more than men have unrealistic expectations about the meaning of texts without the commitment of an actual date.
17
How is it that someone had been "married briefly" ?
I get it that people change over time and despite the pledges we make at our nuptials it is hard to make a marriage last forever.
But if your marriage only last a short time, it is hard to see how you could have been serious going in.
I had a friend get divorced after just two years; I sent a card that said "Congrats on your new found freedom. Please give me back the wedding present."
I get it that people change over time and despite the pledges we make at our nuptials it is hard to make a marriage last forever.
But if your marriage only last a short time, it is hard to see how you could have been serious going in.
I had a friend get divorced after just two years; I sent a card that said "Congrats on your new found freedom. Please give me back the wedding present."
6
Charming.
12
Each relationship is its own unique world, a world that noone outside it can judge. People make mistakes, people change, things happen, and sometimes they change or happen quickly. Yours is an unusual attitude towards gifting--once a gift is given it becomes the property of the person or persons who receive it, full stop, else it wasn't truly a gift. If your friend's spouse had died the day after their wedding, would you have asked for your gift back then?
7
Typical America woman- pretending to be tough and independent from outside but deeply insecure inside.
8
Well, that's kind of mean.
4
They all are. I know a woman who declares herself to be incredibly independent, yet lives rent free at her trust fund boyfriend's home while currently unemployed while "searching for her next career step she's passionate about."
5
Huh? That's your take-away from this?
2
Well some if not most of the problems here are the woman's. They tend to "let things develop." Want to, "See where it goes..." Which are simply code for; "Im gonna test this guys interest in Me, because its about Me."
Ive been down that road too many times with women, who once I give up with doing the interested-dance; texts, emails, and yes even date requests, say to mutual friends; "What gives? I thought we had something? Why did he stop?"
Too many woman play things far too coolly these days. And they still tend to dump most of the "pursuit" onto the laps of the men. Women now have a ready list of excuses, with the help of their never ending accumulation of the latest social networking Apps, claim to have not gotten the text, not noticed the "Ping" among all their other ones. "I had to leave my phone in the car to charge," "my friend was using my phone," etc, etc. All to simply belabor and test the mans interest. Its the same old game, but its one that wears out real fast as there is no real payoff to staying in it.
One female friend has told me this is the new "playing hard to get" tactic. Being aloof and apparently immensely socially busy, they think its attractive to men. She followed up; that it seems to back-fire with the good men, and only truly attract the dogs who never stop looking for a fling. She said; "My friends and I have been noticing that the good guys move on from the texting game-playing really quickly. Its a numbers game they refuse to partake in."
Ive been down that road too many times with women, who once I give up with doing the interested-dance; texts, emails, and yes even date requests, say to mutual friends; "What gives? I thought we had something? Why did he stop?"
Too many woman play things far too coolly these days. And they still tend to dump most of the "pursuit" onto the laps of the men. Women now have a ready list of excuses, with the help of their never ending accumulation of the latest social networking Apps, claim to have not gotten the text, not noticed the "Ping" among all their other ones. "I had to leave my phone in the car to charge," "my friend was using my phone," etc, etc. All to simply belabor and test the mans interest. Its the same old game, but its one that wears out real fast as there is no real payoff to staying in it.
One female friend has told me this is the new "playing hard to get" tactic. Being aloof and apparently immensely socially busy, they think its attractive to men. She followed up; that it seems to back-fire with the good men, and only truly attract the dogs who never stop looking for a fling. She said; "My friends and I have been noticing that the good guys move on from the texting game-playing really quickly. Its a numbers game they refuse to partake in."
8
Emotionally speaking, traditional men keep books at least initially on a cash basis; every transaction is discrete until there is some agreement to move to accrual. Women tend to operate only on accrual: every act or omission is cumulative, reinterprets the past and poretends the future. For guys its exhausting. You are battling the voices of self,mother and friends and their conflicting expectations, masquerading as counsel, all concealed behind those pretty eyes, And you have no idea that they even exist.
2
Your chances, of getting what you want from a man, are increased by telling him what you want instead of having him try to read your mind
23
I'm not a texter, either. It seems silly not to speak to someone, but to just sit there typing away instead. It's such a waste of time, when within seconds you can be having a real, live conversation. Hearing the other person's voice, their laugh, the inflections in their speech all help to get to know someone. Emotionless letters on a screen give no indication of the person behind them. You have more patience than I do, but I'm honest in that I tell people right away that I don't like texting. If they don't like speaking on the phone, they probably aren't going to be a great conversationalist in person, either.
11
Ah yes, the infamous "I was done with the games" and yet the author kept it going. There are two sides to this one as well.
Recently I was dating someone that was just as passive, we'd have a great date and I'd follow up with a text the the following day(yes there were a few calls in there) however was never any indication that she was interested aside from going out with me. I was the one to plan everything we did for a few months. This grew tiresome and I ended it, she wanted to know why and if there was anything she had done. I said you had shown no interest and I had gotten tired of it. This was her way she said and she had lost men prior to me with by being dismissive. She also wanted to move forward but I had already decided she wasn't the one for me. Bottom line for the guys as much as women say they don't want games they will not respond if you are too eager or even sense interest from you that may show you as being too predictable. This story is a great example of what someone will endure. In this case with the author she could't have him in her mind so she put up with it, sad but true. I'm sure there are places on earth where two people can connect and games aren't necessary however at this point in my life I've yet to find them. Good luck to all! it's not easy out there.
Recently I was dating someone that was just as passive, we'd have a great date and I'd follow up with a text the the following day(yes there were a few calls in there) however was never any indication that she was interested aside from going out with me. I was the one to plan everything we did for a few months. This grew tiresome and I ended it, she wanted to know why and if there was anything she had done. I said you had shown no interest and I had gotten tired of it. This was her way she said and she had lost men prior to me with by being dismissive. She also wanted to move forward but I had already decided she wasn't the one for me. Bottom line for the guys as much as women say they don't want games they will not respond if you are too eager or even sense interest from you that may show you as being too predictable. This story is a great example of what someone will endure. In this case with the author she could't have him in her mind so she put up with it, sad but true. I'm sure there are places on earth where two people can connect and games aren't necessary however at this point in my life I've yet to find them. Good luck to all! it's not easy out there.
2
Very sweet article. I laughed at the end. If I were your friend back in the day, I would have said to be more light-hearted about it all and have fun. But it seems everything worked out great in the end.
3
I do not have the desire to play the games described. If clear interest is not reciprocated, then it's not. If she is unable to ask me out (after having been asked out) or cannot be open enough to be clear about being interested, then I prefer to try elsewhere or read a good book or go to the gym, etc.
4
When I was young, there was no such thing as genuine social friendships between men and women. They started to exist quite a while ago, I realize, so nobody seems to have commented on the fact that it's harder for both parties to judge what's possible when there are three options instead of just two, one being a friendship that might turn romantic. This couple evidently found each other congenial enough to stay in touch instead of opting out. It couldn't have happened in the bad old days when it was "boys ask you out" or nothing. The options of communicating are actually helpful now that the relationship spectrum is so broad and so difficult to negotiate, actually.
12
There are so many reasons some people prefer to communicate electronically, with the result in this case probably very, very rare.
The most common explanation, I would think, is someone being satisfied with the face-to-face contacts in his life (which may include a spouse and more) and not feeling the interest or energy to expand to include another face-to-face relationship but yet having the space for a pen pal, even an important pen pal.
I agree with other commenters here that if being a pen pal isn't enough, the dissatisfied party needs to say something, or how is the other person to know?
The most common explanation, I would think, is someone being satisfied with the face-to-face contacts in his life (which may include a spouse and more) and not feeling the interest or energy to expand to include another face-to-face relationship but yet having the space for a pen pal, even an important pen pal.
I agree with other commenters here that if being a pen pal isn't enough, the dissatisfied party needs to say something, or how is the other person to know?
2
My advice to Thomas would have been "Run away". He did not, and I imagine that the author has by now totally consumed his identity and merged it into hers by this time and he has no idea what happened.
How complicated it is to be a man in a world where the opposite sex toggles between traditional and comtemporary, needy and independent, controlling and aloof. Its like a tag team wrestling match with four people, all in one head, and they jump in and out of the ring without notice or warning. It is no wonder men don't marry. As soon as virtual reality is perfected, they will do so even less.
How complicated it is to be a man in a world where the opposite sex toggles between traditional and comtemporary, needy and independent, controlling and aloof. Its like a tag team wrestling match with four people, all in one head, and they jump in and out of the ring without notice or warning. It is no wonder men don't marry. As soon as virtual reality is perfected, they will do so even less.
11
I'm glad this story has a happy ending, but before I finished the article, I thought the author's behavior completely pathetic--obsessing over this man's behavior, his texts, leaving pockets of time open, etc. I guess I'm copmpletely out of touch with dating behavior.
9
Love (or the hope of love) makes morons of us all. I'm guessing that your own adolescent dating behavior would not survive scrutiny under a searching lens.
That said, I would assume that a man who did nothing but text was not terribly interested and I would have moved on. Texts are not like letters, phone calls, or even emails; they can't really be the foundation of a developing relationship (of any kind) between grown-ups. I do have to wonder what would have happened if the author hadn't "text-dumped" him. I suspect it startled him into realizing that he was just screwing around and had to decide whether to proceed or not.
That said, I would assume that a man who did nothing but text was not terribly interested and I would have moved on. Texts are not like letters, phone calls, or even emails; they can't really be the foundation of a developing relationship (of any kind) between grown-ups. I do have to wonder what would have happened if the author hadn't "text-dumped" him. I suspect it startled him into realizing that he was just screwing around and had to decide whether to proceed or not.
5
Of course the author's behavior was completely pathetic, but she's a woman and in today's modern dating economy, women feel entitled to that behavior.
2
I think the obvious reason he didn't ask you out was because you were indicating a complete lack of interest. You never suggested a date, never initiated a text, never asked what his plans were (a "what are you doing this week?" would have fished out the business trip). It's amazing he kept texting you at all. I'm kind of sorry for him for marrying someone so passive.
24
Yes, we get it, you hate American women and consider yourself qualified to judge what we "deserve." Thanks for weighing in.
7
Oh my, moray. Criticism, even harsh criticism, of women must equal hatred because, well, women shouldn't have to suffer group criticism. That's reserved for men.
2
I thought this was a great article from one women's perspective. I briefly read over many of the comments and thought to myself "Jesus!" People are so pathetic, picking apart every line and analyzing simple sentences to death. It's so easy to understand why a majority of these women and men can't find a relationship to save their lives. Thanks for being honest and just "REAL". Well done!
17
I am glad it worked out well for the author.
When I was growing up in Brooklyn (I am 64), the boy called the girl on a Monday (no later than Tuesday) for a Saturday night date. A typical date was a movie and Chinese food (Joy Fong on Avenue J). After a while, you went "steady" and date no one else. Only then did you not have to call a week in advance.
Times have changed. Not all for the better.
There was an innocent sweetness to dating a long time ago.
When I was growing up in Brooklyn (I am 64), the boy called the girl on a Monday (no later than Tuesday) for a Saturday night date. A typical date was a movie and Chinese food (Joy Fong on Avenue J). After a while, you went "steady" and date no one else. Only then did you not have to call a week in advance.
Times have changed. Not all for the better.
There was an innocent sweetness to dating a long time ago.
33
Boys had until Wednesday to call in my day.
2
Thus began the slippery slope...
3
I'm so glad I have gone on my last first date March 9th 2008.
I'm happily married to the love of my life.
I'm happily married to the love of my life.
5
Thank god you finally took the bull by the horns. Women be proactive. It is your right.
13
I think the point of this story is that it's more than a right. The sexual revolution came with responsibilities as well as rights: establishing a relationship is a partnership deal, from day zero.
3
Thank you for the article. This is my exact life right now. Divorced, 30, and giving a texter multiple chances and I have no idea why. It's nice to know that others got through the same hardships, so we all don't feel ridiculous.
16
Ask your texted over for dinner. "I'm dying to cook for you. Bring nothing but your appetite -- it's all taken care of."
Chill the wine (get the red to about 60-65, the white to about 45-50) and have the house already "aroma'd up" from the meal simmering.
don't wait. Just Do. It.
Chill the wine (get the red to about 60-65, the white to about 45-50) and have the house already "aroma'd up" from the meal simmering.
don't wait. Just Do. It.
1
And whatever happened to "I have an extra ticket for the theater on Saturday, would you care to join me?"
Wow, guys can be shy and hesitant too?
13
Umassman's wife writing here - yes guys are way more hesitant and sensitive than you'd think - sometimes. Insecure too. I'm sure the man in this essay was completely insecure about how the writer might feel and was afraid to ask. How did I learn these pearls of wisdom about men? By moving in (to save $$ and pay off a college loan) with my then future husband and his roommates who were pathetically insecure - Saturday night dates? No - they would go to the bakery and get donuts! Fast forward to now - I'm almost 70 and ltt (like to text). Wish we had it back then in the dark ages.
2
I read this column regularly and am often surprised and sometimes moved. This week's entry, however, seemed like a throw-back to a time when women thought men had to be manipulated. The only thing surprising here is that the guy ends up falling for her, even though she plays him by The Rules ("You can't date the day of! That would seem so sad and desperate.") That ploy and the fact that the writer wants "phone calls" and "dates" with her suitor make her seem like a granny. Isn't texting the greatest thing to happen to courtship since, well, the telephone?
9
The author is living her life by conventions. She's a conventional woman living a conventional life. She has not the ability nor the ambition to think for yourself. She follows the herd. She has followed every step of the way, right down to the "starter" marriage in her 20's, which everyone seems to be doing. I'm sure her kids are named Owen and Sophia. The title of this article should be: Modern Love - How To Be A Basic B.
2
Kate, I would say that the answer to your last question is no.
It is called MODERN LOVE.
Have some imagination people!!......the ones that are complaining. Fill in the blanks, be a hopeless romantic or just sigh contentedly but please please stop sharing all that dull, unimaginative, hater sentiment .....just go into politics and leave us lovers alone.
Cheers!
Have some imagination people!!......the ones that are complaining. Fill in the blanks, be a hopeless romantic or just sigh contentedly but please please stop sharing all that dull, unimaginative, hater sentiment .....just go into politics and leave us lovers alone.
Cheers!
15
As a guy who doesn't play games but is neither tall nor dimpled, I found this story unbearably frustrating. Modern technology really just amplifies flakiness and the worst of gender roles.
31
It's the people, not the technologies they hide behind, that are the problem.
Nice story, well told, honest. I like happy endings. Seems like there aren't enough of them.
4
This is the confusion wrought by the indecisiveness of toxic feminism.
Women claim to want to be equals in every single way, to men, but they STILL expect the man to pursue, to ask on the first date, to make the first contact, to pay for the first date.
But men are taught by toxic feminizm NOT to be aggressive or we risk false rape allegations or false sexual assault allegations.
So men sit and ho-hum in confusion and text while women refuse to step up to the plate and take self responsibility or take the burden and risk of rejection.
The woman in this story took the risk and it led to happiness.
Meanwhile, the overwhelming numbers of women are waiting, wondering, ensconced in safe rooms with trigger warnings while men satiate their hunger with tinder swiping hookups.
And (as is usually the case) when women don't get what they want (as many of those commenting here seem to be saying), they sooner blame men for being immature rather than recognize the damage wrought by hypocritical toxic third wave feminism and their own failure to take risks.
Women claim to want to be equals in every single way, to men, but they STILL expect the man to pursue, to ask on the first date, to make the first contact, to pay for the first date.
But men are taught by toxic feminizm NOT to be aggressive or we risk false rape allegations or false sexual assault allegations.
So men sit and ho-hum in confusion and text while women refuse to step up to the plate and take self responsibility or take the burden and risk of rejection.
The woman in this story took the risk and it led to happiness.
Meanwhile, the overwhelming numbers of women are waiting, wondering, ensconced in safe rooms with trigger warnings while men satiate their hunger with tinder swiping hookups.
And (as is usually the case) when women don't get what they want (as many of those commenting here seem to be saying), they sooner blame men for being immature rather than recognize the damage wrought by hypocritical toxic third wave feminism and their own failure to take risks.
9
Oh please. The author did indeed take some risks. Your comment illustrates why women benefit from feminism - so that some day we won't be painted with that broad brush you're using.
9
"But men are taught by toxic feminizm NOT to be aggressive or we risk false rape allegations or false sexual assault allegations."
Yes, I'm sure calling her up for a second date would have triggered a false rape allegation.
It's kind of amusing watching so many men on here spewing out their nasty opinions of women, as if *that* had nothing to do with their lack of romantic success. Most women past college can tell if you resent their very existence, guys.
Yes, I'm sure calling her up for a second date would have triggered a false rape allegation.
It's kind of amusing watching so many men on here spewing out their nasty opinions of women, as if *that* had nothing to do with their lack of romantic success. Most women past college can tell if you resent their very existence, guys.
45
We don't resent your existence. We resent you entitled attitudes, as you perfectly displayed here.
1
As a gay man I find her behavior strange. Thomas asked her out to lunch. What stopped her from taking the initiative to pick up the telephone and ask him out? Dating between equals is like a tennis match, each has to volley the ball over the net. She seems to want him to always volley the ball to her first. Why? I hope she and her husband do not transmit these weirdly antiquated notions to their children.
37
In the final analysis, two people will have to close the door behind them and face each other.
Good luck.
Good luck.
5
Nice story! A wonderful modern yarn that shows that times may change but falling in love still follows no rules, especially when you grow up and quit following them.
4
I'm 63 yr. old and a full-blooded heterosexual male; but I've never been married, no kids and never even had a girlfriend. Why? It is only recently that I can see how paralyzed I have been my entire adult life with the fear of rejection when I think of approaching a woman I may have an interest in. Reading the comments about this article, it occurred to me that, unlike men, women are much more social creatures and when they experience rejection, they have one another and their friends to turn to for consolation. I don't have anybody, and I think a lot men, don't have any kind of emotional connection with other men they can feel comfortable sharing with.
31
Women rarely experience initial rejection in dating, it's only further into the process do they experience rejection via divorce or breaking up. Men, on the other hand, might have to ask out 10 different women to finally meet one who is sincere in her interest. As you saw from the author's approach, she was initially fishing for free meals. Men don't have that luxury.
1
I suggest counseling. It could help you learn how to connect emotionally with others more easily. Best wishes to you!
4
Texting seems a peculiarly non-committal and abbreviated form of communication. Perhaps only the telegrams of old encouraged more parsimony with the wondrous phenomenon of written language.
During my last move, I came across a file filled with handwritten letters from college friends, love interests and just plain friends alike, written while we were on breaks from school. What treasures they now seem, and how sad that this highest form of written interpersonal communication is all but lost.
As evidenced by Ms. Goldstein's article, phone conversations, lengthy or otherwise, are another nice thing presumably on the path to extinction. I can see why they're in decline not only dating life, but professional and family life. They take more time, more effort both in the speaking and the listening, and there's something quite intimate about them (especially when calling each other at home) in a way that even face-to-face conversation may not be. It's so much easier and less risky to dash off a few small words on your phone and get right to the point, however trite it might be.
As for Skyping and such, I haven't really tried it; it just seems weird to me.
During my last move, I came across a file filled with handwritten letters from college friends, love interests and just plain friends alike, written while we were on breaks from school. What treasures they now seem, and how sad that this highest form of written interpersonal communication is all but lost.
As evidenced by Ms. Goldstein's article, phone conversations, lengthy or otherwise, are another nice thing presumably on the path to extinction. I can see why they're in decline not only dating life, but professional and family life. They take more time, more effort both in the speaking and the listening, and there's something quite intimate about them (especially when calling each other at home) in a way that even face-to-face conversation may not be. It's so much easier and less risky to dash off a few small words on your phone and get right to the point, however trite it might be.
As for Skyping and such, I haven't really tried it; it just seems weird to me.
6
I agree. I'm in my early 30s and I still try to use the phone as much as possible, even though it is clearly on the way out.
Texting is not the same thing as a phone call or a face-to-face meeting. To get to know someone better on a date or strengthening a friendship, I think a lot of insights are communicated non-verbally. In a meeting, you can observe if the other person is genuinely interested in what you are saying (and not saying). This nuanced two-way communication is not possible through texting.
8
For all of you who are asking why she didn't tell him what she wanted or ask him on a date, didn't you learn as a child that if you told someone, e.g. your parents or a teacher, what you really wanted they would make sure you did not get it in order to supposedly teach you some lesson or another? Of course we do not tell someone what we want if it is important to us. Way too risky.
7
really, not worth the trouble. the main sentiment i feel for the author is pity.
4
Thanks for your vulnerability.
It's not easy to translate feelings into the written word.
I feel ya...
It's not easy to translate feelings into the written word.
I feel ya...
10
In general: maybe it's not all about you all the time; maybe the other person's got other things to do & to deal with in between you; maybe he/she's not all that into you. And maybe an hour on the phone talking and laughing easily is not as equally weighty to both sides (especially to the one that had not already decided that a one-night fling on sight with the other -- but oh I'd never done that before -- would be fine with him. You married each other? One in 10 million odds. 7 years ago. Yup. This articles right on time.
4
I'm sorry, but maybe I'm an older codger, and yes I've done this texting thing! But nothing beats face to face, nose to nose, and Mano to Mano! The women haven't changed! That's a myth! And you know, as much as I hate to admit it, and I know it's the twenty first century, Leo Deroucher and my late beloved dad, were right, when it comes to dealing with the gals...And by the way New York Times, when are we going to get these diatribes, with more views from men?! Or is that so twentieth century?!!!
5
This is perhaps the single, most frustrating behavior I've encountered while dating as a 21 year old--from the prospect and myself both. Being stuck between the traditional "if it's meant to be, it will find its way," and the modern "if you want it, go get it," is not a fun place to be.
14
Be your own woman....ask him out.
2
I've composed an equally compelling, if considerably more brief tale and look forward to it being published next week:
A guy starts a business. He has a solid grand opening. But then business slows and he prepares to close up shop for good. Instead, he decides to open up franchises nationwide! The end.
A guy starts a business. He has a solid grand opening. But then business slows and he prepares to close up shop for good. Instead, he decides to open up franchises nationwide! The end.
7
I had met this woman in 2001 (in Montreal) and she didn't even tell me her real name in the beginning, I guess just being cautious. We met, talked, and occasionally ate together - always outside. Then I left for Australia, very far away, but we kept in touch. In 2007, I visited Montreal and we met and the first thing she asked me: are you going to marry me or what? Well, we were married 4 days later. Her older sister had told her you are not letting this man go.
The issue was that I had no idea what is her story? Just like Ms G's man. I am zero shy but with this one I did not want to vocalize my intent, I did not want to risk anything, unless I was sure of an affirmative answer or one that would not impinge upon the "friendship" we had. We both wanted exactly the same but were reticent. Both of you are in a state of confusion because what you want depends upon the other and there is a veil hiding the reality. When the unveiling happens, it is this sort of stuff that makes one life out of two and the relationship is cemented permanently.
The issue was that I had no idea what is her story? Just like Ms G's man. I am zero shy but with this one I did not want to vocalize my intent, I did not want to risk anything, unless I was sure of an affirmative answer or one that would not impinge upon the "friendship" we had. We both wanted exactly the same but were reticent. Both of you are in a state of confusion because what you want depends upon the other and there is a veil hiding the reality. When the unveiling happens, it is this sort of stuff that makes one life out of two and the relationship is cemented permanently.
7
Glad you too got together. Nice ending.
I'm 66 -- been divorced for 24 and dating ever since. About 10 years ago I was appalled with the texters. Now after years of iphones, a law practice and busy life, I did a 180. The men are older and until we are in a relationship, I don't want the calls. I'm not a teen. I don't have time to sit around and chit chat. Their voices are not as strong anymore. Some I would have never dated if we had talked first. I way prefer texting -- not for conversations just to touch base. Convos should be in person. Long extended phone conversations can get you in as much trouble as constant texting. FYI -- I respond text for text, and more than a couple -- well I'm too busy for that too. Make a date with me. I don't text immediately. I can let a text go for a few if I am busy. Not so eager.
I'm 66 -- been divorced for 24 and dating ever since. About 10 years ago I was appalled with the texters. Now after years of iphones, a law practice and busy life, I did a 180. The men are older and until we are in a relationship, I don't want the calls. I'm not a teen. I don't have time to sit around and chit chat. Their voices are not as strong anymore. Some I would have never dated if we had talked first. I way prefer texting -- not for conversations just to touch base. Convos should be in person. Long extended phone conversations can get you in as much trouble as constant texting. FYI -- I respond text for text, and more than a couple -- well I'm too busy for that too. Make a date with me. I don't text immediately. I can let a text go for a few if I am busy. Not so eager.
7
Guess I'm not really sure why this woman never thought she should or could suggest a date herself. This is 2016, after all.
5
If you read to the end, you will see that this didn't happen in 2016. Also, she is not you.
2
Thank you, Lindsey, for writing this piece. The frustration that all of these comments show -- and the frustration that you so plainly reveal in the piece -- is an apt reflection of how difficult this whole 'conundrum' is. I must disagree with many of these comments; you don't owe us an explanation as to how you went from texting to marriage. Instead, you have offered readers (or at least this one) hope that there might actually be a happy ending at some point. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
16
Something really similar happened to me too. The only difference was, I cut bait, so I never really found out the reason why the guy would keep texting instead of calling or asking me out. Yes, I was too old school to ask him out, but I initiated contact first, through text. After that, the ball was in his court.
Similar, we met once, exchanged numbers and started texting. I was fine with that at first, but he would text me once a day. Only once and he never replys right away to my message. This is the age of instant messaging, but he would take 24 hours to reply one text, when I would usual reply right away if I could. And it would carry on like this for weeks. Then we had one date, but after that, the one text a day rule continued on his end. I wasn't sure if he was playing around or just keeping me hanging until someone else comes along. So I stop texting him. He continued to text me after I stopped replying. First once a week, then once a month and then he stopped. I figured, if he can't even bother to call me after I went text-silent, then I guess he ain't interested enough.
Still, I was always curious why any guy would do that. Was he interested in an actual relationship? Looking only for friendship? Or just keeping me hanging in case of a rainy day?
Similar, we met once, exchanged numbers and started texting. I was fine with that at first, but he would text me once a day. Only once and he never replys right away to my message. This is the age of instant messaging, but he would take 24 hours to reply one text, when I would usual reply right away if I could. And it would carry on like this for weeks. Then we had one date, but after that, the one text a day rule continued on his end. I wasn't sure if he was playing around or just keeping me hanging until someone else comes along. So I stop texting him. He continued to text me after I stopped replying. First once a week, then once a month and then he stopped. I figured, if he can't even bother to call me after I went text-silent, then I guess he ain't interested enough.
Still, I was always curious why any guy would do that. Was he interested in an actual relationship? Looking only for friendship? Or just keeping me hanging in case of a rainy day?
12
The last one.
1
Loved this story. The haters aren't understanding the charm of the story: it's not about the couple it's about the vehicle (texting) in which their relationship grew and the hilarious misperceptions that arise with 21st century communication. I can attest to this!
23
All I can say is that this article completely typifies my experience of dating these days. Good date and then a stream of vague "how are you" texts that offer no indication of when another date might follow. It makes dating all the more exhausting and frustrating. And I'm in 40s so this is not just a Gen X thing. Pick up the phone, guys!!!
19
Or, you could pick up the phone.
11
'Married briefly'? As in - briefly thought about entering the marriage?
Vince
Vince
Yes, the modern trend of conducting all communication via text is absurd. I know people younger than I, and that's the only way they communicate with me (and presumably each other), even for hours long conversations.
But, equally nonsensical is the author's passive aggressive (or really just passive) un-communicated desires, and anger, and "don't-be-the-first-to-call/don't-accept-a-same-day-date" attitudes. At least they both grew up a little.
But, equally nonsensical is the author's passive aggressive (or really just passive) un-communicated desires, and anger, and "don't-be-the-first-to-call/don't-accept-a-same-day-date" attitudes. At least they both grew up a little.
13
I understand the fear of a difficult conversation, but how is he in the wrong for failing to meet a mental standard that she never communicated?
13
I do not understand why she didn't pick up the phone if she didn't want to talk to him. This reminds me of my first phone calls with my husband - 40 years ago when I was 15. He called 3 days in a row on a lame excuse because he wanted to talk to me and see if I was interested. He skipped the next day because he wanted to know if I was interested. So I called him on an equally lame excuse. We kept circling around the movie we both wanted to see together (a DATE!). Third time circling I finally asked if he wanted to go. His first words: I was GOING to ask you! Two people afraid of appearing interested. Life is too short.
23
"He either had to ask me out on a real date, in person, or I would put an end to this silliness." - My reading comprehension must be slipping. I completely missed the part where the author explains why SHE could not ask HIM out on a date.
Evidently the slightly clueless, slightly shy guy turned out to be husband material. That's often the case.
Evidently the slightly clueless, slightly shy guy turned out to be husband material. That's often the case.
13
Of course he was husband material. Most men are. She was just holding out for more.
1
I was thinking maybe the man was actually interested in her, but very shy and wanted the woman to be the first to "Stick her neck out" and indicate her interest, so he wouldn't risk rejection. I too was surprised that this relationship went anywhere at all, and I certainly didn't expect they'd marry. But we only got only half the story - For example, how did it go when they began actual dating? Did he ever explain his initial over-reliance on texting? Was there an unpleasant aftertaste, i.e. does her now-husband retreat and make her do most of the "work" of communicating at times?
13
Ever heard the term "love avoidant"? Online romance is a hot-bed for love addicts and love avoidants to dance around emotional intimacy. If you're pre-dating and he/she refuses to cross-over into face-to-face communication (even for coffee) that's a flag.
8
That's right ! reminds me of my bar experience talking to a prospect lady and she is looking over my sholder(for something better?).Then listening to ladies complain there are'nt any good men around.
5
This article reminds me how horrible it can be to be single. I am shocked that things worked out for the author since in my (albeit limited) experience if a guy is interested in you he will actually make an effort to see you in person. It seems like she is leaving out a big chunk of the story like (I'm guessing) he had a girlfriend for the first two months they knew each other. I feel like this article does a disservice to the single ladies out there who believe that the "texter" boyfriend could truly be husband material.
37
Agree
4
The problem wasn't the texting, it was the communicating; she could've asked him out as much as he could've asked her out, but both were waiting for the other, he by text, she by telephone.
It's a classic problem misconstrued as a technology problem.
What did past generations do? They exchanged letters; it was texting.
What will the next generation kvetch about? He kept calling but I was expecting skype!
It's a classic problem misconstrued as a technology problem.
What did past generations do? They exchanged letters; it was texting.
What will the next generation kvetch about? He kept calling but I was expecting skype!
16
Very strange behavior (mostly from Thomas, but quite a bit from Ms. G) ...
Assuming he wasn't "playing games," and really was just clueless, I would think that trait has carried over into the marriage. One hopes he has learned to become more considerate of his wife, and by extension, other people in his life.
Assuming he wasn't "playing games," and really was just clueless, I would think that trait has carried over into the marriage. One hopes he has learned to become more considerate of his wife, and by extension, other people in his life.
17
Feels like a big piece of the story is missing; an unsatisfactory read.
81
Agreed! A hollow story with very little insight as to why he was only texting for months and then somehow got to marriage.
17
Summary: We met, he texted, he texted, he texted, he texted, we dated, we married.
But I am still looking for a shred of insight into what happened.
But I am still looking for a shred of insight into what happened.
194
Maybe there's a clue here, like in superficial, something like going into Starbucks every day and engaging in a brief exchange around, "So, how's your day going so far?" "So what's your weekend plans?" Really? If you're not in them -- friend, foe, "boyfriend"? Glad to be old.
Thank you! Indeed, what actually happened?
1
What happened is that she acted on her feelings, I'm happily married because of a similar show of initiative by the woman who became my wife.
What a passive aggressive woman, and clueless man! I suppose I am way too old school, but I would be reluctant to write this essay about myself. This was definitely not a Dating Conundrum, but instead an instructional essay on how NOT to connect with someone. Texting is the least of their problems!
66
Fish or cut bait was effective as well for my spouse of 38 years. 1977 was a very good year!
5
This is a cute story but for me it was lacking in that the real story here - how it is that this couple went from text-only to marriage - was completely omitted. In my experience, most people who behave like the texter don't want a real relationship, at least not with the person they're texting only with. They want a booty call or a backup plan or just a pen pal while they look for someone else or focus on other things. Sometimes it's mean-spirited, sometimes it's just selfish, and sometimes it's pure obliviousness. But rarely does it end up like this. I thought I knew where this story was headed . . . and then it took a sharp left. And that's the story I really wanted to hear!
111
Exactly! I wanted to know what his explanation was as to why all the texting. But maybe she didn't ask, as she doesn't sound like the most direct communicator unless pushed to the edge. And yes, most men who text that way are not sure they want to see you again and are more than happy to waste your time and string you along until they meet someone else.
34
Exactly. I'm befuddled by this. I thought it would end with her saying, "Thanks but no thanks loser." How did she end up marrying him? What did he have to say for himself for this behavior? Inquiring minds want to know!
21
Yep! "Hollywood ending" - he is insensitive for several months, she enables it and then marriage and "happily ever after". The holes in the story are very telling.
7
As someone who is in the dating game, I can totally relate to both sides! For all of those saying, why didn't she just call or ask him out... It's really hard right now as a woman with all of these new "rules," which are in conflict with old rules, never mind in conflict with what your friends are saying. I totally understand why she did what she did. And for him... well, sometimes I forget that guys get nervous, too, so cut him a little slack. The beginning of a relationship is really tough and it takes a while before people feel comfortable expressing their needs. So kudos to them for breaking past that point and going on to a lovely-sounding marriage. #hopeful
33
KB, Nobel on dating goes to you.
3
Not persuaded. Men continue to have to learn new rules about women. It's been going on for 45 years.
1
It seems that both of them were interested in taking things further but neither of them were willing to expose themselves in order to draw themselves closer to each other. The man probably thought he was doing all that he could do, and couldn't bring himself to verify her interest in him. The woman also couldn't bring herself to call or text first due to the social norms she was brought up with, leaving them in a stalemate. This piece is not about texting...
29
Women always believe it is never their fault.
1
I wonder how many other women he stopped texting, calling, seeing when Lindsey laid down the law.
22
TEXTING AND DATING DON'T MIX. Texting is so convenient. But it can be disastrous mixed with dating. You don't develop a relationship through texting. It's an impersonal medium. If you want to continue dating someone, avoid it.
Texts can be misconstrued. You’re busy and simply use the wrong punctuation. A ? vs an !, and the recipient goes off on you. Over a grammatical error.
Or, the recipient misinterprets your text. The written word often has a harsher view than intended. Often, we are not as articulate as we think.
It takes a LONG TIME to potentially change a behavior. Experts say 21-66 days. If your date texts you, call back. But not every time they text. Max of 2 texts/wk with no more than 10 words/text. This may sound absurd, especially to your kids, but it’s just not worth it if you want to develop a relationship. If you are absolutely compelled to text, text your friend instead. Or yourself. After a few weeks of callbacks, your date may get the message.
The exception is if you're meeting, and there’s a problem ie you’re running late, stuck in traffic, etc., then it’s respectful and courteous to your date. But be sure to pull over first, before texting.
If they don’t call within two weeks, they are not interested enough. Some people are extremely busy, both personally and professionally, and have little free time. Give them some time, but if they don’t reach out to you, regroup and move on. That person is not for you.
Texts can be misconstrued. You’re busy and simply use the wrong punctuation. A ? vs an !, and the recipient goes off on you. Over a grammatical error.
Or, the recipient misinterprets your text. The written word often has a harsher view than intended. Often, we are not as articulate as we think.
It takes a LONG TIME to potentially change a behavior. Experts say 21-66 days. If your date texts you, call back. But not every time they text. Max of 2 texts/wk with no more than 10 words/text. This may sound absurd, especially to your kids, but it’s just not worth it if you want to develop a relationship. If you are absolutely compelled to text, text your friend instead. Or yourself. After a few weeks of callbacks, your date may get the message.
The exception is if you're meeting, and there’s a problem ie you’re running late, stuck in traffic, etc., then it’s respectful and courteous to your date. But be sure to pull over first, before texting.
If they don’t call within two weeks, they are not interested enough. Some people are extremely busy, both personally and professionally, and have little free time. Give them some time, but if they don’t reach out to you, regroup and move on. That person is not for you.
16
I will be 40 this year and find myself dating after 10 years in a relationship. Texting is fine to assess interest and enthusiasm, but it's no replacement for a real conversation or meeting. After a couple days of texting, I always suggest a date and put the texting on hold until after the date happens. If no date is scheduled, no more texting.
38
How sensible!
Hard to understand why, if you like someone, you wouldn't want to talk to them. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
18
This article yada yada-ed the dude's explanation for mysterious behaviour. The happy ending is not enough of a reason for women anywhere to accept these bizarre overtures. It is reasonable to have people explain lapses in communication and I'd like to know what happened.
42
OK people le t me land the plane for you. The reason why he kept texting and did not ask her out is because he was a scared little weasel who was afraid of rejection. He just kept texting her hoping the she would ask him out, which she finally did sort of. That was his MO, just keep texting ever y girl he meets, maybe after an initial “coffee date” or not, until they come on to him.
The reason she didn’t ask him out sooner was because she was a scared little weasel who was afraid of rejection, as well.
This whole texting thing is ridiculous. Someone texts me, and I answer with a brief reply, my phone pings 20 seconds later and there is another text from the same person so I reply again, then another text comes. I pick up the phone and call and they don’t answer, but they keep texting. I Finally realized that I just have to stop texting back and they will finally go away.
Girls don’t be afraid to ask a guy on a date, trust me he will appreciate it, even if he turns you down, ah but then you would have to risk rejection. Can’t have that these days when everyone wants to be your (online) friend.
The reason she didn’t ask him out sooner was because she was a scared little weasel who was afraid of rejection, as well.
This whole texting thing is ridiculous. Someone texts me, and I answer with a brief reply, my phone pings 20 seconds later and there is another text from the same person so I reply again, then another text comes. I pick up the phone and call and they don’t answer, but they keep texting. I Finally realized that I just have to stop texting back and they will finally go away.
Girls don’t be afraid to ask a guy on a date, trust me he will appreciate it, even if he turns you down, ah but then you would have to risk rejection. Can’t have that these days when everyone wants to be your (online) friend.
27
The outcome totally surprised me. Up until the end, all I saw was sociopathic behavior .
8
I think "sociopathic" is a little strong to describe her.
10
For some reason, the man loathes the telephone. It's nice that it worked out despite his telephone phobia.
2
I used to think, "texting is an inappropriate replacement for conversation." I've now learned that it's a better alternative to no-conversation, and the gateway to some conversations you might otherwise not have. Suspend judgment. My hope is 2 generations from now men will feel more comfortable with intimate conversations. In the meantime, texting is a baby-step forward. (Waiting to be shouted down by the communication police).
9
As one who was often prone to hesitation at critical moments during romantic adventures, I could relate to the Mr. Texter's tactics. Glad it ended well.
7
I have recently re-entered the dating world at the age of 44 after 16 years in a relationship. It took me a little while to get used to the role of texting in dating, but overall I think it's a good thing. It provides an easy way to keep in touch in between dates, especially when two single parents are dating and in-person dates can be infrequent. It's nice to send a little note letting the person know you are thinking of them, without interrupting their weekend with their kids and demanding the attention a phone call requires.
However, I do not understand the author's reluctance to initiate texting or asking him out on a date. I'm glad it worked out for her, but I have walked away from similar non-committal guys. I don't have time for that.
However, I do not understand the author's reluctance to initiate texting or asking him out on a date. I'm glad it worked out for her, but I have walked away from similar non-committal guys. I don't have time for that.
10
I'm 41 and I hate talking on the phone with a passion. Loathe it. Both the phone connection and my hearing are bad and I just end up saying "huh?" half of the time -- not exactly the sweet nothings romantic dreams are made of. I'm also a sucker for people with a way with words and I find I can learn something about a person by the way he texts/e-mails. My first choice will always be seeing the person face-to-face, but I'm perfectly happy with a running text "conversation" that takes place between dates.
9
I can relate to this. Mostly I would rather never talk on the phone, but that's partly because nowadays with everyone on mobile phones, the call quality seems to suck when you need a conversation to go smoothly. It's so annoying when you have to keep saying, sorry, what was that? But the other thing is, everyone has their preferred way to communicate, and you won't necessarily know what it is unless you ask. Some people are great writers, and super fun to text to, and you can learn a lot about them. Some people are so bad with grammar and punctuation that you can only hope they are better than they've displayed via text and just being lazy. It's a turn off, frankly in the same way great writing can be a turn on, even via multiple texts. Trying to talk to someone on the phone that doestnt enjoy it though can be a total failure too though. And many times, when you communicate too long via text, and finally meet, the person to person doesnt live up to the text connection. Awwwwwkward, and the story of my initial online dating foray back in the early 2000s, when it was far from socially acceptable as it is now. Unfortunately, since being single again the last two years, all the technology and options has only made things harder. I think the best thing to do is meet soon, and figure out if that works. Then you can decide if you want to keep meeting or dating or doing whatever it is you do when you do see each other. But if you arent seeing each other, what are you doing?
who are the people that write these articles? sometimes I feel like I'm reading the script of a bad romantic comedy. "He didn't ask me out for 2 months but not we're married." The reality of that situation is that he wouldn't ask you out and then you'd get drunk on a Friday night, text him, sleep with him and never talk to him again.
19
They're texting small talk but neither is texting anything that matters, which is what their conversation should be leading toward in person. If not a dinner, they could have gotten coffee/drinks (leading to dinner?) after work or more.
As a guy, 30s, who texts enough but not obsessively, I will say that a lot of early texting is an attempt to figure out a women's interest. That she "never initiated texts", and never once initiated a date/hangout can be a low-interest indicator that she's only replying to be polite. She could even drop more hints, like how much she loved hiking, movies, or sushi-- which would prompt an invite, but it sounds like she simply answered small talk waiting for something. Guys looking for relationships are pretty clueless otherwise unless their preying on you for other stuff.
I find these texting relationships often fizzle even if both parties might have more interest, because neither was able to effectively communicate more to jump start it. It isn't always the guy that should. I've also been on the other side of it, where as a guy showing initiative the woman is either too busy, too picky to even consider a second date, and generally needs to be set free again to continue serial dating.
As a guy, 30s, who texts enough but not obsessively, I will say that a lot of early texting is an attempt to figure out a women's interest. That she "never initiated texts", and never once initiated a date/hangout can be a low-interest indicator that she's only replying to be polite. She could even drop more hints, like how much she loved hiking, movies, or sushi-- which would prompt an invite, but it sounds like she simply answered small talk waiting for something. Guys looking for relationships are pretty clueless otherwise unless their preying on you for other stuff.
I find these texting relationships often fizzle even if both parties might have more interest, because neither was able to effectively communicate more to jump start it. It isn't always the guy that should. I've also been on the other side of it, where as a guy showing initiative the woman is either too busy, too picky to even consider a second date, and generally needs to be set free again to continue serial dating.
22
@MH: I'm from the old-enough-to-be-a-fossil generation, but seriously: if you're in your 30's you should just pick up the phone and TALK. Genuine relationships take communication and some effort. Talking reveals marvelous subtleties that are absent in any text message.
I think "guys looking for relationships" are indeed "pretty clueless" if they can't figure out that they way to get into a real relationship is to stop texting and start talking!
I think "guys looking for relationships" are indeed "pretty clueless" if they can't figure out that they way to get into a real relationship is to stop texting and start talking!
6
Hate to break to you, pal, though I do agree with your sentiment, many attractive women in their 20s and 30s are turned off by guys who call. Been there.
TL Fan - why would women be turned off if you call? And, why only the attractive ones?
1
This is my experience of modern dating. You meet a nice person. You kind of connect. Then, Text messages punctuated with smiling emojis. Mature men, who have jobs, using 'lol' to articulate a response? Didn't I leave that way of communicating in grade school on notes passed around during class? It's depressing and inane. I miss the days of phone calls. Hand written letters with carefully chosen paper. I'm told that this is the way things are now. My expectations are too high. Are they? Yet, I can't ignore the fact that this texting leaves me feeling flat. Mostly, because I see that the persona that someone cultivates in print is very different to their actual being. The text persona resembles that of a flaky, sugar happy teenager.
Accepting this new way of dating means that technology has won, distilling our flesh and our breath, into millions of cold pixels.
Accepting this new way of dating means that technology has won, distilling our flesh and our breath, into millions of cold pixels.
85
Thank you.
14
Thanks Sarah. I detest text messages. I prefer a call. Am I going to open my text message while driving and reply to it? But, if you call, I will answer... I do have a hands free, or the car's Bluetooth is connected.
3
I find it comforting and depressing that so many people are having the same experiences I am.
11
I can understand where he was coming from, perhaps. I was in my early thirties 20 years ago, before smartphones, before texting and before cell phones were ubiquitous. I carried on similar conversations with women - some in person, some over the telephone and some via email. The reason I never asked any of them out was an unhelpful combination of extreme lack of self-confidence and fear of creeping out or completely alienating a friend. I'd see my friends dating, building relationships and getting married but I always felt like I wasn't worthy and that those things just weren't meant for me. I was always thinking that if the woman was truly interested in me that she would let me know, in exactly the way that the author let the Texter know. I doubt my response would have been as smooth as the Texter's though, and at least he stepped up to the plate when given a chance. Glad the story had a happy ending.
50
I LOVE Modern Love. In 10 years I have rarely been disappointed. This story is dumb. It's a waste of an excellent little piece of NYT property.
28
I wouldn't call it dumb--but it sure as hell seemed like an editor cut out about four paragraphs between "What should I bring" and the last graph. Also, it would've been nice to have let the reader know what her husband, Dexter the Texter, was thinking during these texting exchanges. The sudden leap to "What are you doing for dinner tonight?" seemed odd.
34
I disagree. I think this is a beautiful piece slice of life, and we can all learn from it. We shouldn't be so quick to judge, and when we want something we should go out and get it instead of waiting for someone to give it to us. Personally, this is one of my favorite modern loves I have read, quite inspirational.
9
Glad the marriage is working out for her, but honestly I am surprised it is, given how petty, secretive, reliant on the advice of others, and passive aggressive she was through the dating process.
Texting is the same as any other form of communication--if she isn't saying what she means, she's going to get misunderstood. Admittedly, it does have its disadvantages in that she can't use gesture or intonation to help, but that's not his fault.
In the end, it's easy for me to say, being in my early 20s and growing up with texting, but being honest and upfront in a relationship more important than primary mode of communication.
Texting is the same as any other form of communication--if she isn't saying what she means, she's going to get misunderstood. Admittedly, it does have its disadvantages in that she can't use gesture or intonation to help, but that's not his fault.
In the end, it's easy for me to say, being in my early 20s and growing up with texting, but being honest and upfront in a relationship more important than primary mode of communication.
71
Haha. Well, this seems like the kind of woman a lot of men end up married to. The weird circular communication must remind them of their mothers or something. It's nice to know that younger men might appreciate a more confident and forthright woman.
6
I'm in my mid-50s and completely agree with you. Actually, I saw his chatty, friendly texts as analogous to people who meet in some old-fashioned real-world but peripheral way - people who take a bus to work together every day, or who run into each other repeatedly at the coffee shop or grocery store. He was a busy guy who perhaps was a bit old-fashioned, not interested in leaping into a serious romantic relationship instantly but instead keeping in touch in a friendly, relaxed way. The writer here is the one with the odd and off-putting behavior.
7
Yes! Saying what you actually think and feel -- in a nice way, a subtle way, a funny way -- is always better than pretending you don't care, pretending you weren't hoping for the other person to say something else, etc.
We should write a book full of lines -- or maybe an app full -- such as, "Hey, that XYZ movie looks good, want to go sometime?" or "How bout lunch again, my treat next time?" that this poor, passive aggressive, clueless reporter could have used instead of torturing herself because she, all in her own head, completely misinterpreted the few lines of pixels she got from her guy.
We should write a book full of lines -- or maybe an app full -- such as, "Hey, that XYZ movie looks good, want to go sometime?" or "How bout lunch again, my treat next time?" that this poor, passive aggressive, clueless reporter could have used instead of torturing herself because she, all in her own head, completely misinterpreted the few lines of pixels she got from her guy.
3
I just got out of one such "relationship". After being out of the dating world for ten years, the new mores have come as a big cultural adjustment. Calling someone feels almost like an intrusion. Some might argue that texting saves time, but I often find that a quick call would get certain matters taken care of much faster than a series of text messages.
I think that texting creates an illusion of intimacy where none exists. When the time comes to meet face to face, there is often awkwardness. You think you know this person, but you only know a side of them. Real intimacy takes time, effort, and face to face contact, or at least phone calls.
I think that texting creates an illusion of intimacy where none exists. When the time comes to meet face to face, there is often awkwardness. You think you know this person, but you only know a side of them. Real intimacy takes time, effort, and face to face contact, or at least phone calls.
113
This (now married) man should teach a class in text game. He played aloof and had her in fits until she asked for another date. He knew women are not attracted to overly eager men, so he played the long and won (her heart). Bravo.
11
Completely agree. Act disinterested and they'll pine for you.
If ability or even desire to text incessantly are considered a criterion for dating, we the human species are in very deep trouble. We are making sure that those who'd rather think and communicate the old-fashioned way - by actually speaking words - are barred from reproduction. As what's left of our civilisation sinks Beneath the Planet of the Apps.
5
I really love the happy ending. I wasn't expecting it at all. A happy and loving marriage to the both of you. Thank you for sharing.
3
You married him, so you must know. Why no explanation for the standoffish texting? Leaves the fun article half-finished.
11
What's wrong with Lindsey that she could not take any initiative? And what's wrong with her that she could not see her utterly passive and accusatory behavior as problematic? And what's wrong with her friends that all they could do was reinforce this behavior ("How's the Texter?"). She's too old to blame it on her mother. Have some moxie.
33
You think texting relationships are bad... welcome to the abomination that is dating in 2016 where you use facebook messenger. And yes, it is as depressing as it sounds.
5
Ugh, give me a break. A guy who is skittish about picking up the phone and making plans is bad news. If this story is even true it's a one in a billion experience. Publishing this makes people think it's acceptable for a man to do what he wants and a woman should just "go with it".
4
"Publishing this" doesn't make anyone think anything. Think what you will.
Meanwhile, she made repeated choices to be passive - refusing to 'text first' or to pick up the phone herself and call. She wanted him to do all the heavy lifting, while she created drama with her friends. No one made her leave her weekends open - she could have invited him on a date instead, or just lived her life. Childish and silly.
Meanwhile, she made repeated choices to be passive - refusing to 'text first' or to pick up the phone herself and call. She wanted him to do all the heavy lifting, while she created drama with her friends. No one made her leave her weekends open - she could have invited him on a date instead, or just lived her life. Childish and silly.
13
Texting reminds me of high school when I used to pass notes to my best friend during class and she to me.
It was so much fun and so very 14!
It was so much fun and so very 14!
4
The happy ending comes abruptly. We don't know if there was ever pillow talk or any talk about the absurdity of the whole thing.
What's clear as other commentators have said, is that she expected him to make "the move" and got enraged when he didn't. We don't know why he didn't. While her feelings were clear to her they were not to him. She thought only of her own hurt feelings not his.
Maybe he was terrified of rejection. She seems not to have considered that.
What's clear as other commentators have said, is that she expected him to make "the move" and got enraged when he didn't. We don't know why he didn't. While her feelings were clear to her they were not to him. She thought only of her own hurt feelings not his.
Maybe he was terrified of rejection. She seems not to have considered that.
9
She doesn't, or didn't, care. He's the man, he's "supposed" to take that risk. She's a woman, she's entitled to not have to take that risk.
Isn't feminism great?
Isn't feminism great?
1
Good Lord. The endless texting and the writer's lengthy inability to short-circuit it: both maddening. Glad of the happy ending, though.
5
yeah, well lucky you. my wife just texted me, "Have you given your lawyer the financial paperwork yet?"
5
Welcome to modern dating, where people just use each other for text.
23
I've been a computer person since the room-sized mainframes of the 1960's, and worked everything from those to primitive desktop binary-coded micros, was first in the 80's on the IBM PC, no hard disk, 640k max memory, $3,000, and I still make the most current devices, laptops to supercomputers that fill buildings, turn tricks. Got my IEEE 50 year pin 9 years ago.
My phone makes calls. It gets calls. If you want to hold a conversation with me, do so. Otherwise, fergedaboudit.
My phone makes calls. It gets calls. If you want to hold a conversation with me, do so. Otherwise, fergedaboudit.
6
Oh, please. They were both poor communicators. There is nothing wrong with texting as a means of communication, but for her to place the blame on him when she erupts from the frustration of his not communicating with her on her terms? That's passive-aggressive. Give me a break. She could easily have asked him out. Poor guy.
142
Hello Mc Fly? They got married. That qualifies as a happy ending, for now.
Or she could have at least initiated communication from time to time. Believe it or not, guys need reassurance occasionally.
I agree; it seems like 'expecting another person to be able to read our mind' is the modus operandi of the passive aggressive inclined. And so, by the way, is 'splitting', the tendency to see things as all or none, or only in black or white terms. The common thread in both tendencies, is difficulty accepting ambiguity and nuance. The problem in the dating scene is that seemingly intelligent people can display these emotionally immature strategies due to having learned them while growing up, usually from a parent.
Wait, what? You married him? What was his excuse for two months of being bizarre?
83
his behavior is not "bizarre." it is the status quo for courtship process for 20/30-somethings. rare is the man who knows how to show his interest in a female without being labeled negatively (aggressive/un-smooth/desperate). this is why the courtship process is now reduced to "hooking up" rather than "dating". neither side is happy with this arrangement.
1
Passive-aggressive much? Good luck with that, in the long run. Waiting for your husband to read your mind and ask you about what you could just tell him. But then there wouldn't be anything to see here...
9
Ugh, this is a dangerous little story. Ladies, for anyone in one of these texting relationships, it doesn't usually work out like this. If he wants to see you, and he's someone worth seeing, he'll ask to see you without putting you through a couple months of hell. So glad those days are behind me.
191
I totally agree. And I wish those days were behind me.
9
Ugh, this is indeed a dangerous little story. Gentlemen and ladies, for anyone in one of these texting relationships, it doesn't usually work out like this. If she wants to see you, and she's someone worth seeing, she'll ask to see you without putting you through a couple months of hell.
10
I don't really get this.
If you wanted to call, why didn't you call?
If you wanted to ask him out, why didn't you ask him out?
We must be the same age, or around that--if anything, I'm older than you (late 30s).
Is this a New York thing? Your mom told you not to call a boy? But you're texting while dating so this cannot be 1960. After he took you out for lunch, shouldn't you take him out for lunch? Why are you waiting for him to buy you another meal?!?
People I know text all the time. We are late 30s - early 40s.
Just text him and put down your phone when you get to the restaurant.
Maybe he was from the West Coast or something and not used to New York social norms or something.
If you wanted to call, why didn't you call?
If you wanted to ask him out, why didn't you ask him out?
We must be the same age, or around that--if anything, I'm older than you (late 30s).
Is this a New York thing? Your mom told you not to call a boy? But you're texting while dating so this cannot be 1960. After he took you out for lunch, shouldn't you take him out for lunch? Why are you waiting for him to buy you another meal?!?
People I know text all the time. We are late 30s - early 40s.
Just text him and put down your phone when you get to the restaurant.
Maybe he was from the West Coast or something and not used to New York social norms or something.
56
I recently dated a guy who called me on the phone after our first date to ask for and plan a second date. In the weeks that followed, he would call every couple of days just to say hi even if we were between dates. I had never experienced this in my entire adult dating life. It was amazing.
Sadly, things ended, and it has been really difficult readjusting to the dating pool of ping-pong texting and men who ghost. Guys -- just grow up and pick up the phone, even if just for a call lasting <5 minutes. You'll stand out, I promise.
Sadly, things ended, and it has been really difficult readjusting to the dating pool of ping-pong texting and men who ghost. Guys -- just grow up and pick up the phone, even if just for a call lasting <5 minutes. You'll stand out, I promise.
196
While I don't date, the thought of calling someone seems a bit meh. I don't even like talking on the phone with my mom. I hate talking on the phone, this dislike applies to skype, facetime etc. I actually don't like texting so much. I reserve that for family and close friends. Email is sort of my facebook I guess, I hated facebook with a passion. In general though I've been trying to push people to write handwritten letters and send it by mail. Hopefully during the summer I close on this property in northwest Maine. While I'll have internet I'm going to push even more for handwritten letters over that of emails. Texts will still be reserved for inner circle individuals.
Then again, I don't date. So the demand to talk on the phone really does not apply to me. When I did date I remember talking to girls hours on end on the phone...well they did the talking and I would have to listen fuming with annoyance. If I was to start dating again which I do not ever plan on doing; I rather become a monk...I don't think things would last very long. Even with emails, I reserve my replying to most as a once to twice a week occurrence...hopefully to become less over time.
Then again, I don't date. So the demand to talk on the phone really does not apply to me. When I did date I remember talking to girls hours on end on the phone...well they did the talking and I would have to listen fuming with annoyance. If I was to start dating again which I do not ever plan on doing; I rather become a monk...I don't think things would last very long. Even with emails, I reserve my replying to most as a once to twice a week occurrence...hopefully to become less over time.
As a man in his mid-twenties, I like actually calling women who I am dating! However, I stopped doing it because it carries among my peers the air of 'coming on too strong.' I end up standing out negatively instead of positively. It is really disappointing, but nobody I have met since I left college (nearly four years ago) likes communicating via the phone. It's all texts or Facebook messages.
2
How about girls grow up. Stop being enablers and start being yourselves.
I would love to hear his reasoning for the excruciating delay. Please!
10
um, he was dating three other people probably!
11
I loved this piece, since it reminded me of a sort of relationship I had in the past; I am glad it worked out for you guys
4
As a 26-year-old single woman, this resonates with me so much. Several times I have been enthusiastic when a guy I was interested in started texting me (for our generation, often the first step in the "Hey I like you" dance) and then confused when he never seemed to want to go beyond that. Was he too intimidated to ask me out directly? Was I not sending the right signals? Did he have five other girls he was also texting regularly? Did he just think of me as a friend and would awkwardly shrink away from our friendship if I misinterpreted his intentions and asked him out? It's easy to judge the writer for not being more forward, but even in our modern world young women are still indoctrinated with the idea that just the hint of being too forward or clingy or desperate is a major turn-off for many men.
89
For God's sake, why not ask him? Via text, of course.
7
I take it that the point is that the recipient of the texting attention can't know for sure which of the scenarios is going without meeting the texter more than halfway.
Hold out for someone who's straightforward about what he wants. It sure does make life easier!
2
No ! Why not tell us why he behaved that way. I need to know, please write another article with an actual explanation.
38
He texted about going to the movies, asked her opinion of what to see, then signed off without inviting her. The word that floated through my mind? "Sociopath".
77
Or, afraid of rejection?
Jane said: He texted about going to the movies, asked her opinion of what to see, then signed off without inviting her. The word that floated through my mind? "Sociopath".
I would substitute "psychopath". Sociopaths are rarely organized enough to even have a steady job, but psychopaths abound, especially in higher echelons of business.
Not that I'm diagnosing Trump or anything.
I would substitute "psychopath". Sociopaths are rarely organized enough to even have a steady job, but psychopaths abound, especially in higher echelons of business.
Not that I'm diagnosing Trump or anything.
I, too, would like to know the answer to why he texted so much but never asked her out. Alas, it's how dating work these days. No one calls on the phone. Usually if one person prefers a conversation, the other does not, and the default is to text. It leaves so much up to interpretation and creates unnecessary anxiety and stress trying to figure out what's going on on the other side. Texting is an easy out for anyone if better plans come up or they just don't feel like making the effort.
28
"Usually if one person prefers a conversation, the other does not, and the default is to text"
What about "if one person prefers to text and the other does not, the default is..." what? just acceding to the less obstinate position? or not to communicate at all?
What about "if one person prefers to text and the other does not, the default is..." what? just acceding to the less obstinate position? or not to communicate at all?
so did the writer ever figure out what the problem was? It was extreme, the constant arm's length texting.
23
I take texting as a modern-day letter writing. But the hiccup is that the possibility of response is instantaneous rather than temporally stretched, as in authentic letter writing practice would be. Technology is evolving several leaps ahead of us, but we do not have the new scripts in place for the texting-age courtship, so we apply the age-old rules of conduct. This is a conundrum.
10
Funnily enough, the reason I and my friends often prefer texting to phone calls (the most recent courting medium, the loss of which is constantly being bemoaned) is exactly that it's temporally disconnected. I don't have to be available at the precise time my conversant is in order to talk; we can asynchronously send blurbs, think things over, and pick up where we left off.
4
I am in a relationship with a serial texter. It is not a romantic relationship, however. It is my sister. It drives me crazy - she writes paragraph after paragraph even when she knows I am in a situation where I am able to talk. I either give a one word response or pick up the phone and call her.
17
I see human communications esp those around expressing personal disclosures and especially around difficult areas like emotions, devolving from the art of fine letter writing, to the phone call, to texting, to now ever brief texts using "emoticons". I see it as fear based hiding behind a symbol instead of taking the risk of exposure and the risk of rejection.
Nothing like expressing deep emotions and feeling of longing and love with a bouncing little yellow ball that winks each time it bounces. I'm sure Shakespeare would approve.
Nothing like expressing deep emotions and feeling of longing and love with a bouncing little yellow ball that winks each time it bounces. I'm sure Shakespeare would approve.
7
Nice essay.
5
This column illustrates a true and persistent double standard, namely that men are still expect to do the bulk of pursuing and planning to make a date, assume virtually all the risks of rejection, and devote all or most of the resources to make it happen (dinner, theater tickets, whatever), while the woman merely sits back and chooses whether to accept. Now, as a man, I'm OK with this division of labor if women are OK with it. If women aren't OK with it, then hey, this is 2016: they can take a chance, pick up the phone, ask someone out, risk rejection...and pay for dinner.
But, women, you can't have it both ways: you can't buy into the double standard--which works vastly in your favor--AND complain about it. That makes you sound like a privileged, whiny, spoiled brat. Man up, pick up the phone, and ask someone out--but for God's sake, stop complaining. If nothing else, it will give you a much better appreciation for what the opposite sex has been going through for generations.
But, women, you can't have it both ways: you can't buy into the double standard--which works vastly in your favor--AND complain about it. That makes you sound like a privileged, whiny, spoiled brat. Man up, pick up the phone, and ask someone out--but for God's sake, stop complaining. If nothing else, it will give you a much better appreciation for what the opposite sex has been going through for generations.
191
This was a useless little story. Why was there no insight into the man's perspective. Are you just saying that he was waiting for you to call? Is that the message? What's the point?
3
RE...man did you hit one right on the screws. Ive been divorced 4 years. Im in my mid 50s. I date mostly women my age or 10 years younger. Don't much understand the "chippy" on the arm thing...as far as a relationship. Ive dated women pronouncing their independence, self reliant "I am woman hear me roar", but pay the bill? Arrange a trip? Activity? Forget it. As I read the column by Lindsey I kept thinking how silly she was and what a jerk he is. I thought the time of the texting was about a week...TWO MONTHS? I thought we I got divorced that with being "mature" the games would be over. HA!
3
Hear hear! I was going to say the same, and I'm a woman. If the guy is not moving the relationship forward, and you want it to go forward, pick up the phone, text, email, etc... If he says no, then you just spared yourself a lot of pain and a lot of time. I understand that it's always nice to feel wanted, but is the pain of wanting to be wanted worth it?
2
Loved this post. It's so true that people have become obsessed with texting. I have encountered this so many times since moving to San Francisco.
6
I text only when I have to. It becomes inane, otherwise.
However, this behavior is so wildly out of step with the average practices of single people now, it's laughable.
Like Facebook, which offers the illusion of friendship without any of the work involved in being actual friends, texting seems to offer people the illusion of a relationship without having to do very much at all. It's an emotionally and intellectually lazy way of being "sort of " involved with someone.
I cannot respect someone whose preferred method of communication is by text.
However, this behavior is so wildly out of step with the average practices of single people now, it's laughable.
Like Facebook, which offers the illusion of friendship without any of the work involved in being actual friends, texting seems to offer people the illusion of a relationship without having to do very much at all. It's an emotionally and intellectually lazy way of being "sort of " involved with someone.
I cannot respect someone whose preferred method of communication is by text.
136
Bingo! Perfectly stated.
3
I am 35, and I date guys from ages 24 to 40, and I see this behavior all too often. I tried match.com not long ago, and three of the BETTER guys I met on the site absolutely bombarded me with text messages. This is not to say that they didn’t also ask me on dates (or I asked them and they agreed) but in between dates the texting was always out of control. I agree with what another poster on here said – it’s an effort to force intimacy, either because they truly wanted to know more about me, or because they thought (incorrectly) that it would lead to a quicker hook-up. Even with the guys that did have “good intentions”, I couldn’t handle it. The constant texting was one reason I had to sign off match.com for good.
1
Completely agree! Let me know if you ever come to New York :)
1
Texting is the new phone call and the old paradigms apply -- if you're busy say so, give brief replies to texts, and put down the phone first. If someone wants to pursue you, they will figure out that they need to pin down an in-person date.
6
Snooze. Pursue and be pursued, regardless of gender. The old rules are and were garbage.
11
Texts are fine for 'just checking in...how's your day?' or 'running late be there in 5'. Beyond that, text 'conversations' are for children and/or those unable to come to terms with feelings of intimacy or vulnerability.
95
Or for people living in the 21st century without regrets.
It's a written message. It's not emotionally stunting to express yourself in writing.
What a bizarre thing to say.
It's a written message. It's not emotionally stunting to express yourself in writing.
What a bizarre thing to say.
25
I still do not get the passivity. When I read through the first part of this, alarm bells were going off, and I thought for sure this guy was married. The ending to this story surprised me.
34
I agree. It's the lazy way of doing a relationship.
7
This simply reinforces my notion that these archaic statutes - punishable by long and lonely incarceration - that women can not ask out men - will be the death of all of us.
73
i agree. as a clueless man i can't tell whether a woman is interested and i sure feel bad and ugly approaching someone who is not interested. if a woman is interested take action. the worst that can happen is i'm not interested and you get to feel like a man. if you are interested you should make it real obvious: a hair flip, eye contact, a real smile with eye contact and a come hither look and then a crooked finger. don't be surprised if i look behind me to see if you're signaling someone behind me. when i get to you i will use the same line i use on police women (and men). Officer are you flashing your lights for me?
4
I'm happy that it all worked out, but I really can't figure out how they got there from the weeks (months?) of mostly texting. Was he "hinting" when he asked about her weekend plans, or what movies she might like? Really? All she had to do was say goodbye and then he was all in? For what it's worth, I'm a texter myself - my spouse unit not so much, so we use it largely for "be home soon, need anything?" communications. I keep up with my mom and others by text, with occasional phone calls and visits, since we live apart. Maybe the author would post a little addendum of explanation?
33
It's nice you guys had a lovely ending, but as a reader, I'm curious to know why your suitor was reluctant to to make any moves to take the relationship forward.
188
I wondered the same thing!
5
Why this focus on poor Thomas? The person who made the least effort here is, hands down, Lindsey. How come you have no curiosity about why she was reluctant to make any move to take the relationship forward? Bizarro-world through-the-looking-glass gender relations.
7
Im guessing he was sleeping with two other people and dating three others...
16
I've been married for 30 years and can still remember how terrifying the dating scene was. Adding another layer would truly make it a jungle. For once today, I'm glad I'm an old, boring, married guy.
28
The passivity enrages me. It takes two, doesn't it?
141
My thoughts exactly! To just expect him to ask you on a date when you're not even willing to initiate a texting conversation yourself, and then throw a fit when he doesn't just read your mind, despite the fact that you didn't take the tiniest bit of initiative...come on! Is this middle school?
24
Some women are old-fashioned and want the man to be the pursuer in the very beginning of a relationship.
5
I think the texting was not as much of a problem as the author's unrealistic expectation.
I am so happy this worked for you but I hope you do not fall back to the passive aggressive anxiety (I used to also suffer in my younger days).
Whenever, a person initiates a text, it is OK to say, hey busy now, you wanna grab drink later? done! easy...no head games.
Your thought process was very flawed: appearing desperate, not too forward, not this or that or the other! gosh!!!!!
You had nothing to lose by saying (since he texted) let us get together a and b.
The whole dumping him first was wrong. You should ask him about the texting first!
but alas, who cares you are married now? I hope you learned the right way to talk about your needs.
I am so happy this worked for you but I hope you do not fall back to the passive aggressive anxiety (I used to also suffer in my younger days).
Whenever, a person initiates a text, it is OK to say, hey busy now, you wanna grab drink later? done! easy...no head games.
Your thought process was very flawed: appearing desperate, not too forward, not this or that or the other! gosh!!!!!
You had nothing to lose by saying (since he texted) let us get together a and b.
The whole dumping him first was wrong. You should ask him about the texting first!
but alas, who cares you are married now? I hope you learned the right way to talk about your needs.
48
well said. she had all this pent up stuff, why not just come out and say or text it. and then to hold all this stuff in and then lay the red line do not cross. just silly and she's lucky she took action. it would be interesting to hear his take on this texting thing, it did seem a bit much on his part especially after having two fun face to face meetings.
3
'...I couldn’t believe it. Did he not have any idea how ridiculous his behavior had been?...'
No, because she never gave him any reason to believe it was, as she expected him to read her mind.
Glad it all worked out, but it is shocking that any 31 year old would behave like a college student.
Speak your mind, politely, from the start tends to work best.
No, because she never gave him any reason to believe it was, as she expected him to read her mind.
Glad it all worked out, but it is shocking that any 31 year old would behave like a college student.
Speak your mind, politely, from the start tends to work best.
142
agreed. all men are clueless and clueless means we are not mind readers. my ex wife asked me for my thoughts one day and i said : differential expansion rates of steel and aluminum on car engines. instead of guessing what she wanted for christmas she gave me a list one year. that was a successful christmas.
6
I'm 27 and I can't imagine a relationship without texting!
4
OK, but only texting?
31
Great read, but we're missing a side to this. I desperately want to know how he explained the regular texting for so long without asking her out? (And, yes, I know she could have made a move or said something sooner - I'm just curious.)
132
Wow. I'm really happy for you that it worked out and I'm sure your now-husband is a super guy, but I could not help but be enraged at the cluelessness you described in your article. And age doesn't matter. I'm on the right side of 50 and I still experience this nonsense.
35
Poor Thomas may have been clueless, but Lindsey was even more so. Which of them was making more of an effort? Which of them seems more precious? Why are you not enraged at her cluelessness? More important, why are you not enraged at her deep-seated entitled passivity? You sound like one of her friends asking sarcastically How's the Texter. Irritating self-absorbed behavior.
4
Which is the right side of 50?
5
I am old enough to remember life before texting and the texting annoys me from potential romantic partners. It doesn't allow for true intimacy to develop.
26
Then use it as a means to meet in person. Problem solved.
6