I think not enough synaptic pruning causes schizophrenia . 1 - Schizophrenia almost mostly occurs on pre-teen smarter people means lots of synaptic activation 2- Psychosis is the result of too much synaptic activation . 3 - Antipsychotics blocks lots of neurotransmitters to calm down the symptoms .4 - Too much pruning would cause depression not schizophrenia . 5- decrease of gray mater can be the consequence of the disease not the cause due to not being able to use the brain because of occupying with delusions and hallucinations .
5
I'm wondering why the weekend briefing specifically mentions "tying schizophrenia to excessive house-cleaning by the maturing brain" yet this article lacks any reference to this.
I thought the article named excessive pruning of the synapses in neurons as possible cause?
2
As a psychologist, my sense is that there is extensive evidence for neuroplasticity. Therefore, I never believe that biological markers necessarily narrow our options to psychotropics. What worries me most about my son is not the psychotic symptoms but the gradual transformation from a brilliant pre-teen who was overflowing with business ideas to a 30-year-old whose life is completely on autopilot. At age 10, he decided that he wanted to be a model and persevered to the point that he had modest success despite the 360-mile round trip commute for each audition. Now this brilliant young man can't conceive of planning steps to build a career in any field. Could it be that his brain pruned away connections supporting his planning skills? If so, then is it possible that the research will develop to the point where we can tell people like my son that their brains have changed, but that there is hope to regain some of their function? Could families support the process with evidence and stories about what the person used to do before the changes occurred? Could we develop evidence-based long-term psychosocial programs involving motivational interviewing and step-by-step planning support in order to begin to restore some of the vital connections that were pruned away?
12
I am aware of how devastating it can be to watch a loved one just get worse. My boyfriend had schizophrenia and he actually died before 55. I ended up having some trouble staying with him in the girlfriend capacity, but learned a lot from him and many others who have mental illnesses and schizophrenia is a thing i have pondered on how much is genetics and how much is influence from the psycho-social aspects as well. I am not a mental health professional and I find it very hard to have a good talk with those who just talk about medications as the only means for helping schizophrenics. I believe in the support of the community and the social aspects as much as to go as saying ti may help more than the meds alone. I would love to see more social help with how to deal with the world in where many see it different then the norm. I do not believe there is a total norm, but there are those difference that can be seen to others. Education as well for the person who suffers and those who need to help the sufferers and the family. I have seen this feild of mental health go to war over the drugs that can debilitate those who are already at risk for the diseases or disorders they have and we need to make a balance. i am all for finding ways to help those who can make a difference if they are shown it is okay to see things different, yet still be able to live in a more realistic opportunity to be who they are with dignity.
6
As a whole people with schizophrenia are not a strong group of voting constituents. We must speak for them in supporting research to cure/prevent/treat this disease. This is a world wide problem. Thank you for this move closer to understanding the cause of schizophrenia. I strongly support funding research for schizophrenia. We must speak for those who may not have a collective voice.
12
The most hopeful part of this article is that so many commenters are thinking about schizophrenia without parroting all the old social/Freudian assumptions.
8
Where does this leave the followers of Dr Freud?
1
Given the relationship to the immune system, I was wondering if anyone was considering the possible role of the maternal viral hypothesis?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2441883/
The relevance of the current findings seems huge, if valid, and likely will illuminate the complexity of the disorder as well.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2441883/
The relevance of the current findings seems huge, if valid, and likely will illuminate the complexity of the disorder as well.
5
That is something to consider... seriously
1
Wonderful news when you finally get to the "what" (para 5) and the "who" (para 8). NYT seems to have gone passive in its writing about research.
4
The article states that the new research shows that "too much C4-A leads to inappropriate pruning...", yet also stated is "Mice bred without the genes that produce C4 showed clear signs that their synaptic pruning had gone awry, Dr. Stevens’s lab found."
Those statements are contradictory.
Those statements are contradictory.
5
Not contradictory so much as unclear. The comment by Dr. Stevens speaks to the importance of C4-A in the process of pruning during development as evidenced in mice lacking the gene. Period, full stop. Further investigation showed that over-expression contributes to schizophrenia. Two separate, but related thoughts poorly communicated in the NYTimes piece.
11
Probably a u-shaped curve.
4
Thank goodness for the research and that mothers are no longer to blame, as they were just a few decades ago. Now let's cover it as a medical condition and give therapeutic support. Break down the stigmas.
14
Schizophrenia ranks with cancer , Alzheimer's and heart disease as one of society's most widely impactful medical conditions. Rare progress on identifying the potential root causes of this tragic disease should be rewarded immediately with more research funding. Important work, bravo.
20
"That risk, they found, is tied to a natural process called synaptic pruning, in which the brain sheds weak or redundant connections between neurons as it matures. "
Weak or redundant connections are connections that are not in use according to Hebbian rule. If they were in use, they would strengthen. How would 'accelerated' pruning leave us without the neural connections we use?
Does "aggressive 'tagging'" mean that connections in use are erroneously selected for pruning? If so, which connections are tagged and which are not and why?
I am afraid that simple concepts like accelerated pruning will not do justice to the observation should it be confirmed in people diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Let us take this proof of concept with a grain of salt. From fewer synapses to hearing voices is a far mechanistic stretch.
Weak or redundant connections are connections that are not in use according to Hebbian rule. If they were in use, they would strengthen. How would 'accelerated' pruning leave us without the neural connections we use?
Does "aggressive 'tagging'" mean that connections in use are erroneously selected for pruning? If so, which connections are tagged and which are not and why?
I am afraid that simple concepts like accelerated pruning will not do justice to the observation should it be confirmed in people diagnosed with schizophrenia.
Let us take this proof of concept with a grain of salt. From fewer synapses to hearing voices is a far mechanistic stretch.
3
As a Psychiatrist I know all too well the horrible effect this disease has on patients , families and society as a whole .. ANY progress in understanding Schizophrenia should be celebrated as a victory and one more piece to the big puzzle .. as the authors indicated , this is not going to lead to a magic treatment or cure for the illness . However each discovery uncovers one more clue that hopefully one day will lead to major advances .. carry on !!!
34
One of your commenters mentioned the possible role of epigenetics. The authors of this very important contribution suggested a possible autoimmune mechanism. Considering the fact that only 3% of our DNA is genetic and the rest, formerly labeled "junk DNA" when I was a student, about which function we know almost nothing, any new association of a different gene or epigene with a disease is important. Now add to the mix of possible epigene triggers the largest variety of "mimic" protein triggers found in the body, namely the gut micoflora, and we have the makings of exciting scientific research for centuries to come. ML McCann MD
10
I am struck by the large number of people whose critique of this contribution to understanding schizophrenia seems to reflect their personal bias (agenda) rather than a reasoned scientific argument. I wonder just how many of these commentators have read the actual research publication in Nature or at least the "News and Views" article that accompanies the paper.
3
Thanks for the extremely linear 'tunnel-visioned' 'article' and 'study'. Totally leaving out child abuse/childhood trauma makes this one of the NY Times's worst failures.
2
I have never seen or heard of a case of schizophrenia being cause by abuse. It is genetic, and neurological not situational.
11
Schizophrenia or schizophrenia-like syndromes can be induced by trauma and in adults, this tends not to be as severe since the causative events are usually extraordinary. In children, I have known of two families where children developed psychiatric symptoms due to child abuse. They included schizoid symptoms and bipolar disorder, but I was not involved deeply enough to know anything beyond that except that a miserably weak justice system allowed it to carry on in one of those families and even forbade intervention. Although there is a genetic component it is an act of serious ignorance to attribute all to either environment or genetics. Everyone has their own breaking point and breaking points are subject to cumulative stressors. It is those with a deep inborn sense of compassion that seem to suffer the most. On the other hand, it is those who lack empathy (such as those with sadistic tendencies and those who tend to project their own inner darkness on others) who are most likely to induce the trauma that causes the break.
3
Unfortunately your misdiagnosis that schizophrenia is caused by "trauma or child abuse" is frightening in 2016.
This horrifying disease is a neurological disorder and proven to be so from brain studies that show grey matter in the brains of schizophrenics. Unfortunately Freud concluded schizophrenia was the result of poor mothering, and because not enough research continued on schizophrenia this incompetent diagnosis stuck for years until
Further research proved otherwise. I am the mother of 3 boys . Now 2, because my oldest son suffered for 15 years with this nightmare and chose not to live his otherwise dignified life this way.
There was no trauma or child abuse in my home . We are a loving and supportive family that did everything we could possibly due, and suffered daily watching our beloved son spiral into this madness, yet competent enough to choose not to live like this anymore.
Your uneducated comments lead to all the stigma so many families like myself are trying to change. For your own sake, READ,
And find all the research so you don't continue to embarrass yourself as you have done with your hurtful comments.
This horrifying disease is a neurological disorder and proven to be so from brain studies that show grey matter in the brains of schizophrenics. Unfortunately Freud concluded schizophrenia was the result of poor mothering, and because not enough research continued on schizophrenia this incompetent diagnosis stuck for years until
Further research proved otherwise. I am the mother of 3 boys . Now 2, because my oldest son suffered for 15 years with this nightmare and chose not to live his otherwise dignified life this way.
There was no trauma or child abuse in my home . We are a loving and supportive family that did everything we could possibly due, and suffered daily watching our beloved son spiral into this madness, yet competent enough to choose not to live like this anymore.
Your uneducated comments lead to all the stigma so many families like myself are trying to change. For your own sake, READ,
And find all the research so you don't continue to embarrass yourself as you have done with your hurtful comments.
3
1 billion federal dollars are being sent to Flint Mchigan because, the nose of Eric Holder, the corrupt local Democratic Party poisoned the people of Flint. This billion could have been dedicated to medical research to help all people. The people of Flint should sue the Democrat party. When will poor people learn that Hilllary and her ilk are killing them to create personal fortunes at the expense of the most vulnerable.
5
Un, you can't even put your comment as a reply to the correct article. How do you figure the Democrats- party accused of excessive domestic spending, and party of the poor- would NOT spend the money. We want the EPA. We want clean water and clean air. Puuuhhhllleaazze!
12
Is your post satire? The Democratic party wasn't in control in Flint. It was under control of city managers appointed by Republican Rick Snyder. In fact the plan to switch water supply was made at the state level not the federal level. This whole tragedy go to Governor Snyder.
19
One more in a long series of wind-mill chasing events related to the Broad Institute, dedicated to finding biological markers that can be treated by the pharmaceutical industry and biological psychiatry. As another commentator Kriegman says, this study is "dangerously misleading." On the surface, when seen by the public it appears to be outstanding. There are three problems with this. The public, politicians, and the judiciary, all of whom are involved in creating laws to institutionalize "schizophrenics" and funding research, generally have only a lay person's perspective of research and statistics. This appears as an incredible finding to any lay person, glorified by the language of the researchers. However, from the standpoint of statistics the variance of the 25% discovered is so low as to be a little bit above the potential of winning the lottery or being struck by lightening. And to think, the "very important" finding of synaptic pruning came from the study of experimentally bread mice, not humans.
8
Exactly what I was thinking, actually!
The Fragile X syndrome protein was also linked to autism, and to early onset schizophrenia and to pruning. One gets the idea that so many key neuronal proteins like C4 localize at synapse dendritic membrane spines where critical toll-booth connections are made in the neural system (bright dots in the photo). If our understanding of these conditions continues to overlap, someday people may talk about neuropsychiatric spectrum disorders.
18
In the old days, before the psychopharmaceutical industry took over the world and convinced everyone that emotional overwhelm and disability starts with a bad gene or unbalanced chemical, the shrinks (such as T. Lidz and R. D. Laing) knew that families – parents – could make children anxious, depressed, psychotic. Modrow (the book, How To Become a Schizophrenic) describes schizophrenics as “human beings who have undergone terrifying, heartbreaking, and damaging experiences, usually over a long period of time, and as a consequence are emotionally disturbed – often to the point of incapacitation.” At a more mundane level, if I’m standing on railroad tracks, hear a loud whistle approaching me, and become awash in anxiety – it makes sense to blame the train, not my brain. Many people’s lives are lived, in effect, on those tracks. You have to expect something unsustainable to happen, given enough time.
5
This study can be dangerously misleading. There have been dozens of supposed advances in the biological understanding of schizophrenia that have turned out to be spurious. But if this one turns out to have validity, it is grossly misleading to suggest that it explains “schizophrenia” as that term is typically used to diagnose people who have psychotic episodes. As the study’s authors acknowledge, if the gene differences they found are real, they could account for only a small portion (around 25%) of those diagnosed with schizophrenia, almost all of whom are told that they have a biological disorder and need a lifetime regimen of drugs to control it, drugs that are known to be highly toxic when taken for long periods of time at their typically prescribed dosages (see http://www.yoism.org/pdf/EHPPPsychDrugEpidemic%28Whitaker%29.pdf).
Interestingly, the researchers MAY have found some evidence for a biological problem in the unfortunate, small percentage (not much more than 25%) who didn’t respond well to non-drug, psycho-social treatments in those studies that compared such interventions to traditional neuroleptic interventions. Unfortunately, this study is likely to be used to undermine the use of safe, effective psychosocial treatments (see http://www.yoism.org/pdf/ReviewOfSoteriaParadigm.pdf) and support the chemical intervention approach to all who’ve experienced psychotic episodes, most of whom will be irreparably and needlessly harmed.
Interestingly, the researchers MAY have found some evidence for a biological problem in the unfortunate, small percentage (not much more than 25%) who didn’t respond well to non-drug, psycho-social treatments in those studies that compared such interventions to traditional neuroleptic interventions. Unfortunately, this study is likely to be used to undermine the use of safe, effective psychosocial treatments (see http://www.yoism.org/pdf/ReviewOfSoteriaParadigm.pdf) and support the chemical intervention approach to all who’ve experienced psychotic episodes, most of whom will be irreparably and needlessly harmed.
23
I think sexism is a Mental Illness, where are the articles? Oh thats write, men are predominantly the superior writers these days
4
Teaching people not to listen to the voices is a great step, but wouldn't it be better for them and everyone if they didn't perceive their own brain tricking them into believing there are exterior voices? This study may be one small step on the path of enlightenment and eventual prevention.
2
I think your bias toward pharmacological tools in treating schizophrenia has led you to damn this discovery before further work is done to corroborate it. Many of us are well aware of the "Cookoo's Nest syndrome" and similar "approaches" toward treating this terrible condition, but to quickly jump to concluding this information will thwart use of other interventions is incorrect.
1
I had hoped that research (below) would get us closer to understanding causes of mental illness like schizophrenia, but it doesn't seem at all connected to this latest research, so what do I know?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/brain-drain-missi...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/brain-drain-missi...
I imagine that ultimately we will be able to describe an interplay between genetic expression and environment, environment in terms of what our bodies are exposed to in the way of environmental toxins and poor nutrition. Alzheimer's is another 'pruning' problem that is believed by some to be caused in no small part by insulin. The 'Standard American Diet' is rife with refined carbohydrates which necessitates excessive insulin production. Conditions such as schizophrenia, dementia, autism, and so on, could be produced by a 'perfect storm' of genetic predisposition and exposure to toxins absorbed through the gut and the skin.
6
Sounds neat. If I understand this properly, the pre-frontal cortex becomes neurologically disconnected in the pruning process. this means that higher functions as self-control are damaged and it tends to explain why schizophrenics lack self-control and can engage in acts of violence during episodes. It does not seem to fully explain well why they over process information and are unable to deal with too much neurological input. The over processing suggests that neurological connections involved in memory associations are at an excess. It may have implications as to why some users of marijuana develop schizophrenia while the damage to most is sub clinical. The loss of brain mass in schizophrenics may be due to literal burning out of neurons form excessive activity. Since high creativity and schizophrenia seem to possess the same genetic disposition, a combination of high levels of memory interconnections and reduced neurological inhibition are co-involved in both the pathological and non-pathological and that those with a high level of creativity are vulnerable to developing schizophrenia. If I were to make an educated guess as to which section of the population is most vulnerable to developing schizophrenia, for example, from pot smoking, I would say the highly creative are most vulnerable to being pushed over the edge to the great loss of cultures and creative "dolts" the least.
7
@GS
"the pre-frontal cortex becomes neurologically disconnected in the pruning process. this means that higher functions as self-control are damaged and it tends to explain why schizophrenics lack self-control and can engage in acts of violence during episodes."
Very good observation. Perhaps the "disconnect" is likewise the reason for the PDST violence and self harm, when on leave, as opposed to combat, where there is an evolutionary helpful disconnect between implicit and declarative memory. In WWI vets treated with morphine were spared shell shock. Neuroleptic drugs with opium like brain protein synthesis inhibiting effects are being explored in PTSD treatment. The NYT recently had an article about the use of Propanolol AKA Inderal for PTSD and DID amnesia. The Vets who used the widely available $5 dollar bag heroin in Vietnam were probably self medicating with what we might call a local home remedy.
"the pre-frontal cortex becomes neurologically disconnected in the pruning process. this means that higher functions as self-control are damaged and it tends to explain why schizophrenics lack self-control and can engage in acts of violence during episodes."
Very good observation. Perhaps the "disconnect" is likewise the reason for the PDST violence and self harm, when on leave, as opposed to combat, where there is an evolutionary helpful disconnect between implicit and declarative memory. In WWI vets treated with morphine were spared shell shock. Neuroleptic drugs with opium like brain protein synthesis inhibiting effects are being explored in PTSD treatment. The NYT recently had an article about the use of Propanolol AKA Inderal for PTSD and DID amnesia. The Vets who used the widely available $5 dollar bag heroin in Vietnam were probably self medicating with what we might call a local home remedy.
2
From what I understand about nicotine, it might also work to alleviate shell shock by preventing associations that would elicit the memories of the horrors of combat. THC would work in the opposite manner, causing the development of inappropriate memory links, perhaps, random memory links to specific events. It is quite possible that what we used to call bad trip LSD flashbacks were due to the concurrent use of LSD and marijuana which would have made excessive links to those events and caused their involuntary recall. Sometimes cues cause excessive recall if the links become too random. If the links become severed somehow in the future, those events could eventually dissipate. Imagine that perhaps the best thing for immediate post trauma treatment would be the application of a nicotine patch. And the worst, puffing on a "J" for a few days.
Interesting point about the opium. It seems that either the effects create alternative memories of pleasure (which accounts for their addictive properties) or interferes with the making of memories. I think the key is mitigating memory formation to a moderate level. That is the goal of psychotherapies.
I had a great uncle who suffered shell shock in WWI, and toward the end of his life we were told he began to recover. By that time, however, he had become psychologically institutionalized and remained institutionalized for the rest of his life.
Interesting point about the opium. It seems that either the effects create alternative memories of pleasure (which accounts for their addictive properties) or interferes with the making of memories. I think the key is mitigating memory formation to a moderate level. That is the goal of psychotherapies.
I had a great uncle who suffered shell shock in WWI, and toward the end of his life we were told he began to recover. By that time, however, he had become psychologically institutionalized and remained institutionalized for the rest of his life.
This is a great point about pot smoking and psychosis. With all the new liberalism regarding marijuana little emphasis is placed upon the dangers of marijuana. I consider myself a liberal and progressive and will vote for Bernie Sanders. However on the pot smoking front it is very dangerous to expose high levels of THC to millions of teenagers some of whom may develop psychosis and or schizophrenia. The problem is that marijuana does not affect all people in the same way. It may be a innocuous or beneficial to some and very dangerous to others. We have yet to understand why this is so. Whether marijuana is actually a cause for these conditions is open to question but it certainly correlated with high levels of psychosis and its avoidance is advocated by professionals for those who work with psychotic individuals or those who have experienced psychosis.
1
As the title of the article explains "Scientists Move Closer to Understanding Schizophrenia". Hopefully, it is one step closer to providing Schizophrenia patients with a cure that will help them lead a much better or normal life. Hats off to Steven McCarroll and Beth Stevens.
5
A bit of historical context: the conceptual groundwork for this genetics study was laid over 30 years ago by the psychiatrist Irwin Feinberg. At the time, he proposed the theory of synaptic pruning mostly on the basis of deductive reasoning. The strength of the current work owes much to this theoretical foundation and stands as a testament to the importance of well formulated theories.
9
Research on psychiatric diseases has been handicapped by a kind of religious believe that these phenomena signal the presence of evil.
2
I want to express my gratitude to the researchers involved.
4
Think of "neural pruning" as a form of adaptation to the emotional environment in which a child is raised and the reason one identical twin gets the disease and the other does not becomes clear.
Do parents, extended family, teachers and friends of identical twins treat each twin exactly the same? Does each identical twin respond to the environment in exactly the same manner? No, they do not, especially in a society that places so much emphasis on becoming an individual, with products and services that target and cater to our individual needs and tastes, yet educates children en mass.
It's nature AND nurture that is the cause of this and many other mental diseases. The two are inseparable. That's what 22 years in the field of mental health informs me.
If we are clear that this disease surfaces during late teens and early twenties, why are we not focusing our attention on what we can do as a society to nurture and protect our children at this crucial developmental stage, when "neural pruning" theoretically spikes?
At age eighteen, children are considered adults. Maybe we need a different way of classifying people from age 15 to age 30...pre-adults, with access to college for free.
Do parents, extended family, teachers and friends of identical twins treat each twin exactly the same? Does each identical twin respond to the environment in exactly the same manner? No, they do not, especially in a society that places so much emphasis on becoming an individual, with products and services that target and cater to our individual needs and tastes, yet educates children en mass.
It's nature AND nurture that is the cause of this and many other mental diseases. The two are inseparable. That's what 22 years in the field of mental health informs me.
If we are clear that this disease surfaces during late teens and early twenties, why are we not focusing our attention on what we can do as a society to nurture and protect our children at this crucial developmental stage, when "neural pruning" theoretically spikes?
At age eighteen, children are considered adults. Maybe we need a different way of classifying people from age 15 to age 30...pre-adults, with access to college for free.
2
I don't think you or the commentator above understand what is meant by environmental triggers, it is not necessarily about "adversity" as such, or being treated nicely. It could be stimuli or types of stimuli. There are fewer cases of schizophrenia for example in the country than the city. Adolescence itself is a stimuli due to hormones (though this paper would suggest it is a time for extra pruning). We don't actually know which stimuli trigger the pruning to go for their jetpacks.
3
@NSH My experience is that the reason there are more cases of schizophrenia in tbe city than in the country is that there are more mental health services in the city and patients are given bus tickets from poor rural area to the city to obtain help.
Free college means free mental health for anyone attending. As pointed out recently in the NYT, early intervention after the first psychotic break has been proven more effective than medication alone.
Environmental factors include the stigmatization of people with mental health issues.
Free college means free mental health for anyone attending. As pointed out recently in the NYT, early intervention after the first psychotic break has been proven more effective than medication alone.
Environmental factors include the stigmatization of people with mental health issues.
2
When dealing with brain development there is clearly a connection with the environment (meaning one's experiences). Our brain must react and change to everything we experience. But are some people resilient in the face of adversity when others develop illnesses. This research looks at the predisposition that might nudge one down the path toward illness. There are likely many other factors involved, but this may give us a clue toward possible treatment or prevention. It is at least a start.
For those who expect stronger genetic linkages or question twin studies in which twins don't match, please remember that even before birth identical twins experience slightly different environments and may be born with dramatically different weights or appearances. During the process of cell division, mutations occur, so they are never truly 100% identical. It is well known that their immune systems differ slightly (due to genetic rearrangements). After they are born they may be in different classrooms, catch different diseases, suffer different injuries, and take different drugs. Think of it as a bike ride down a hill. If the road is bumpy, you're more likely to take a spill. Someone with poorer balance is more likely to fall, but it's hard to predict with certainty.
For those who expect stronger genetic linkages or question twin studies in which twins don't match, please remember that even before birth identical twins experience slightly different environments and may be born with dramatically different weights or appearances. During the process of cell division, mutations occur, so they are never truly 100% identical. It is well known that their immune systems differ slightly (due to genetic rearrangements). After they are born they may be in different classrooms, catch different diseases, suffer different injuries, and take different drugs. Think of it as a bike ride down a hill. If the road is bumpy, you're more likely to take a spill. Someone with poorer balance is more likely to fall, but it's hard to predict with certainty.
5
"will not lead to new treatments soon.."
I read an almost identical story 40 years ago, with the same conclusion.
Still waiting..
I read an almost identical story 40 years ago, with the same conclusion.
Still waiting..
1
This is a stunning, stunning finding. In the understanding of schizophrenia, it is like coming upon an oasis in the vast wilderness of a barren desert.
11
Thankfully, one person who gets it, and is not trying to to counter it to hawk their pet theory. I am shocked at the amount of people here pushing back because they are prefer something holistic or non-drug related, as if any of these methods have worked for the vast majority of people suffering from schizophrenia.
Every time I read about the lives of people with schizophrenia, their struggles and the suddenness of how it all changed it is so heartbreaking. I too was relieved to see this and hope it will lead to a way to combat those susceptible from developing it.
Every time I read about the lives of people with schizophrenia, their struggles and the suddenness of how it all changed it is so heartbreaking. I too was relieved to see this and hope it will lead to a way to combat those susceptible from developing it.
18
What purpose for this 'research" except the manufacture of yet more widely profitable psychotropic meds ? Find the "culprit" biological component to "disease" and find the biochemical route to modify it - this micromanaging of the body rarely produces anything but a temporary cessation of one symptom but leads often to permanent new symptoms - "scientists" do not have the tools to comprehend the brain's route to pathology let alone those to discover the route to health - we must work on maximizing the entire body's functioning , that is , a macro-management , providing the means for the body itself to heal itself. Rarely , however , does this approach prove profitable or produce such genuflection of accolades in the medical journals or the NYT.
3
There is also the possibility of discovering causal factors as well as persons who may have a predisposition to schizophrenia. For example, THC is used in the treatment of certain medical conditions. It is also known to correlate with an increase in schizophrenia especially in adolescents. If the vulnerable population can be identified, the use of alternative treatments that are not associated as such may be indicated, or the addition of counter agents that mitigate the undesirable effect.
Neuroplasticity research shows that psychosocial interventions can change biology. Brain studies sometimes motivate people to accept the reality of the condition, figure out what is likely and not likely to change, and focus on the types of psychosocial tratments and medications that are most likely to help.
1
This article is exciting. However, as Dr. Samuel Barondes points out, the findings are “just one step in a journey of a thousand miles.”
In the meantime, we must commit more resources to evidence-based programs that combine psychopharmacology; a primary care physician; and a supportive environment. This model is proven to reduce hospitalizations and help people with schizophrenia progress in their personal journeys toward more fulfilling and productive lives.
Kenneth J. Dudek
President
Fountain House
In the meantime, we must commit more resources to evidence-based programs that combine psychopharmacology; a primary care physician; and a supportive environment. This model is proven to reduce hospitalizations and help people with schizophrenia progress in their personal journeys toward more fulfilling and productive lives.
Kenneth J. Dudek
President
Fountain House
15
Truly... 1% of the population, 1 in every 100 people has schizophrenia? Anyone know the total rate of all diagnosable forms of mental illness in the population?
1
It's basically 10%. 2% bipolar disorder, 1% schizophrenia, and the rest spread over the rest of the mood and/or thought disorders. These numbers do not include personality disorders.
The stats also say 25% of Americans will struggle with depression at some time in their life.
Look up the American Psychiatric Association for more info.
The stats also say 25% of Americans will struggle with depression at some time in their life.
Look up the American Psychiatric Association for more info.
10
Borderline Personality Disorder is a devastating mental illness with an estimated prevalence of 6%. NIMH is in the process of updating its figures.
3
Thank you to Mr. Carey, the NY Times author, for specifically stating what a "25% increase in risk" actually means when the base or background rate is 1%: That the risk goes up to 1.25%, not to 26%, as many might assume.
Note to other commentator, JH: This really IS a 25% increase, not a 0.25% increase. Twenty-five percent of one percent is 0.25%. Said another way to make it clearer: 100 people out of 10,000 (1%) without the gene variant are at risk of the disease, while 125 people out of 10,000 (1.25%) with the gene variant are at risk.
While this increase may be small, given the enormous impact of schizophrenia on patients, families and society plus the lack of other strong leads makes this a very notable study indeed - even if other genes and factors no doubt also contribute.
Note to other commentator, JH: This really IS a 25% increase, not a 0.25% increase. Twenty-five percent of one percent is 0.25%. Said another way to make it clearer: 100 people out of 10,000 (1%) without the gene variant are at risk of the disease, while 125 people out of 10,000 (1.25%) with the gene variant are at risk.
While this increase may be small, given the enormous impact of schizophrenia on patients, families and society plus the lack of other strong leads makes this a very notable study indeed - even if other genes and factors no doubt also contribute.
36
I think it can also be said this is a 25% increase in risk in the 1% of the population that may be diagnosed with schizophrenia and a 0.025 increase in the population as a whole. I see nothing in this article that indicates that 1% of people without the gene variant are at risk for schizophrenia. And I suspect the researchers are overreaching by being so specific about their estimate of the increase in risk. I sympathize with all the confusion. I don't think this is a particularly good article about a complex research study, which I think may be flawed.
3
This is kind of old news; I watch Charlie Rose's Brain series and they discussed the pruning issue. I vaguely remember some evidence that schizophrenia was the genetic flip-side of autism in the people with schizophrenia have 2 genes while autistic people have none. The larger issue is that as people become parents later in life there's a higher probability of genetic defects. What should our response be, given that society is absorbing more and more of these long-term costs?
2
@Cricky
"as people become parents later in life there's a higher probability of genetic defects."
Despite the scary sound of the words genetic defect, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Mutations are where all the genetic diversity in the human race ultimately came from. And the more diverse humans are, the more likely they are to survive some new biological threat. A dad generates 2 sperm mutations for every year older. Compared to the 6,000,000,000. sequences in each sperm most of which are nonessential or supportive sequence, there is no social cost. We need to look elsewhere for perceived ^autism rates.
Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection has been observed in male mice making mate choices of females with different MHCs and thus demonstrating sexual selection. Perhaps poor mate selection contributes.
"as people become parents later in life there's a higher probability of genetic defects."
Despite the scary sound of the words genetic defect, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Mutations are where all the genetic diversity in the human race ultimately came from. And the more diverse humans are, the more likely they are to survive some new biological threat. A dad generates 2 sperm mutations for every year older. Compared to the 6,000,000,000. sequences in each sperm most of which are nonessential or supportive sequence, there is no social cost. We need to look elsewhere for perceived ^autism rates.
Major histocompatibility complex and sexual selection has been observed in male mice making mate choices of females with different MHCs and thus demonstrating sexual selection. Perhaps poor mate selection contributes.
2
Rose probably was referrring to the 2007 study by Dr. Stevens that is discussed in the article.
One response is to have fewer children or none, as my kids have decided. I see this and get over my wish to be a grandmother.
One response is to have fewer children or none, as my kids have decided. I see this and get over my wish to be a grandmother.
3
It's not old news. The "pruning" thing has been discussed for some time, but this new, stong evidence for it.
3
I confess to have not yet read the paper in Nature. However, I always have the same question for this type of research. Schizophrenia is a rubric for multiple diseases that have "disordered thought" as their common phenotype. I present to the medical students a picture of CAT scans of twins, one affected by schizophrenia and the other not--the brain of the affected twin is as atrophied as any Alzheimer's patient's brain. This is typical for "type 2" schizophrenics, but not all. H O Beckmann demonstrated that 2/3 of brains from schizophrenics who were "type 1" with normal brain size and weight had abnormal cellular architecture, especially in the temporal lobe. But that means 1/3 of type 1 diagnosed schizophrenics had neither brain shrinkage nor abnormal cellular architecture. Right quick, that puts up to at least four distinct diseases and there are probably more.
Can one genetic defect predispose individuals to all these different forms of disordered thoughts?
Can one genetic defect predispose individuals to all these different forms of disordered thoughts?
5
behinds research nobody is scanning brains of patients. why?
how much of the population that are normal have the same scan
as abnormal scans.
can brain scans definitively diagnoses patients with schizophrenia?
this would make tons of money.
type 1 type 2 this means nothing since its not used in pracitce
how much of the population that are normal have the same scan
as abnormal scans.
can brain scans definitively diagnoses patients with schizophrenia?
this would make tons of money.
type 1 type 2 this means nothing since its not used in pracitce
this research brings us closer to understanding how our biological heritage structures our being. mental illness has always seemed more an attribute of a person's soul than a physical disorder... you *have* diabetes or cancer, but you *are* schizophrenic or bipolar. an explanation of the gene-level mechanics, of what goes wrong and how, is a huge step toward changing our understanding of these maddening disorders.
41
The "have" and the "is" is something those of us who HAVE bipolar disorder or schizophrenia is one of the obstacles that those of us who struggle with these disorders. I always say I "have" bipolar disorder; it does not have me, nor is it my entire identity. We are working to change that wording; it does matter.
Spread the word.
nami.org
Spread the word.
nami.org
8
You are not your illness. I person has schizophrenia, they are not a schizophrenic. Help stop the stigma that is so debilitating.
@michael sangree
Very good point.
If mental illness largely results from emotional and sexual trauma as some commentators suggest, could the soul attribution *are* be society's implicit acknowledgement of it's perceived cause? Sex and trauma is seen as "Un petite mort" or "I saw my life pass by" in some cultures. The soul can be perceived as separating from the physical in trauma. DSM V might label it Dissociation. In descriptions of the soul - Aristotle, Albertus Magnus, Aquinas, etal - all arrive at the idea that it governs the physical entity of all life, and in the highest human form is immortal. Perhaps we need to go back to casting out our demons and neuroleptic drugs.
Very good point.
If mental illness largely results from emotional and sexual trauma as some commentators suggest, could the soul attribution *are* be society's implicit acknowledgement of it's perceived cause? Sex and trauma is seen as "Un petite mort" or "I saw my life pass by" in some cultures. The soul can be perceived as separating from the physical in trauma. DSM V might label it Dissociation. In descriptions of the soul - Aristotle, Albertus Magnus, Aquinas, etal - all arrive at the idea that it governs the physical entity of all life, and in the highest human form is immortal. Perhaps we need to go back to casting out our demons and neuroleptic drugs.
1
I believe that in 2009 NIMH began the Research Domain Criteria (RDoC) initiative which conflates the psychotic conditions of schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder and bipolar disorder with psychosis, into three newer categories of psychotic conditions, currently being referred to as, Biotypes 1 ,2, and 3. A major question should be asked as to what degree these findings regarding neuron pruning, C4-A, etc. in schizophrenia also apply to the other two traditional diagnostic categories for psychotic conditions being incorporated into the new NIMH RDoC framework.
This result had better be real. If it IS it's profound. And it would also be about the first useful thing to come out of the $$$$Billions of dollars that have been spent on this type of linkage-genome research so far. (Other than lining the pockets of a few scientists at taxpayer's expense.) This whole approach is one of the biggest hyped and biggest boondoggles in the history of science. (Particularly in cancer where it has become a standing joke.)
Only the biology is for real - Stevens' stuff. Would the gene folks have anything without that? No way. But if she helped them get to the right gene, well ok - mazel tov. And about time!
Only the biology is for real - Stevens' stuff. Would the gene folks have anything without that? No way. But if she helped them get to the right gene, well ok - mazel tov. And about time!
2
Nancy: I'm curious whether you have a background in biology or biomedical research? You make some fairly bold statements without offering any evidence or showing what credentials you might have to lend them any weight. Would you care to elaborate on, or defend, any of your assertions?
7
Indeed I do. And have followed this approach for many years. It's cost a fortune (of tax payer money) and produced almost nothing important given the cost. The hype is huge. And the money being made by some of these folks is also huge. The conflicts of interest are so substantial that it is hard to know what to believe. My observation is that cancer is the worst field for it. Less sure about neuro. Always worth checking both the companies these folks are into and then their advocacy positions. Politicians could never get away with it that's for sure. It wouldn't matter if it didn't involve people's health and tax payer's money. But it does. Over time, science truth will out. But in the short term the damage is very real. And we all pay.
Nancy--we're asking what specifically are your credentials, and what specifically are your citations.
1
For once I'm speechless. It will take me time and discussion with scientists for me to absorb the importance of this. Thank you for this article and thanks to the two scientists who worked on it.
7
This is a helpful article - but assumes too much in the attempt to keep it simple. The raw data poorly supporting genetic causes that MZ (identical) and DZ concordant twin studies rely upon is currently called DSM V. The DSM is essentially opinion and is like reading tea leaves in motion for a DX. Furthermore the "science" describing drug action mechanisms changes almost every week. Reputable Pharmaceuticals are leaving a therapeutic field too full of controversy. In his 2004 book Colin A. Ross MD wrote that he found the historical clinical notes supporting the first descriptions of the illness often revealed disconnects between procedural and declarative memory typical in PTSD trauma patients and was the "split mind" perceived by Paul Bleuler and named schizophrenia in German. Trauma is ethically treated with cognitive behavior therapy and the like and not with over hyped expensive and dangerous drugs.
6
Wow...How many of you cynics are going to pontificate here? This is a good step in learning more about How and Why this happens in young adults. How about you being Happy for Any new discovery pertaining to this illness? I am sincerely shaking my head at all of you who would attempt to tear down a small but significant discovery.
29
Agreed. I worked in this field and have a first cousin with this disorder, so I find the study promising. I can't believe the comments from people who most likely have zero idea of what they're talking about. Natural cures for schizophrenia... Really??
4
Years ago I had a roommate whose young brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia in his teens. He had exhibited strange, obsessive behavior patterns, unnoticed by parents who traveled a lot. Finally, the housekeeper spoke to her mother about what she was seeing. The father was highly placed in the U of Wisc., and the son was put in an expensive, private mental health institute. He was diagnosed, and not treated. There was no treatment at that time. Later there were meds. He was bright, but could not attend school. He remain hospitalized all of his life. Later, a sister was diagnosed with severe depression. The family was educated and well off; they accessed treatment in Wisc. and in Boston and NYC. There were a lot theories about the cause of schizophrenia. There were a variety of meds, little if any psychiatric treatment. The doctors who treated this family suspected a genetic link somewhere, but that was in the early days of any studies. Schizophrenia is a complex, mystifying illness; and, it is a tragic event in any family. Bettleheim wrote about it, studied it, and was unable to definitively say it was this or that. As far as I know, Betti, there is no "cure" for schizophrenia.
3
There's nothing in this article that leads me to believe that scientists are indeed closer to understanding schizophrenia's cause. I have many questions about this research. There are different types of schizophrenia and the disorder doesn't always involve hallucinations. What definition of the schizophrenia was used in this study? The article claims that people with schizophrenia have a gene variant that facilitates development of schizophrenia. The researchers even estimate the increased risk at 0.25%. Really? They can be that specific. Incredible. The researchers even invoke mouse studies to support their theory, despite the fact that what's true in mice is very, very often not true in humans. The article does not mention whether the people in the study had been taking antipsychotic meds, which many, maybe almost all, people diagnosed with schizophrenia are put on. Could the medication have caused a diminished number of neural connections, meaning that the disorder itself may not be responsible? And if medication is responsible for the altered brain, then what does the genetic finding mean? The article praises the high quality of the research. Why? Because the researchers said it was high quality?
19
I think a main breakthrough here is showing a plausible cellular and neuronal mechanism for the disease. Knowing a mechanism gives scientists something to try to exploit for a cure - like the old saying, to fix a broken TV you first have to know how a TV works. "nature" published a "news and views" description of this work that may be interesting and helpful in answering your questions.
11
It's important to realize that this is science reporting, and very responsibly and conservatively done science reporting at that. You can read the article that is being reported on in the scientific journal and you will most certainly find the inclusion criteria and statistical methods applied.
25
Consider actually reading the study. The NYT authors can't literally reproduce the study for you right here. Your questions are likely all addressed in the study.
6
It would be interesting to see if any connection develops between this research regarding excessive pruning of neural connections and recent studies suggesting that one cause of autism may be the under-pruning of neural connections.
21
Hominids are the only animal in which there are distinct child and adult brains. The reconfiguration that is required during adolescence evolved pretty quickly, and evidently doesn't always work perfectly.
4
It's an interesting discovery but please let us know what we can do to better treat or prevent schizophrenia. We also now know that elephants have twenty times the number of a gene-preventing cancer than humans have. But how do we replicate that protection in humans?
5
I also think that science still doesn't know what causes of schizophrenia... schizophrenia might be a kind of autoimmune condition, in which the body attacked its own cells?
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Grace from https://www.thedebtconsolidationreviews.com
1
Despite the fact that this study doesn't lead the way to effective treatment, Big Pharma soon will have dozens of competing drugs on the market that claim to be an effective treatment. Watch for the TV ads!
6
Both the pharmceutical and 'natural' supplement industries...
2
LOL....true and oh so sad : (
When I was a child a great Aunt told me her only daughter died from a fall off a horse. Later I learned it was not the case. Instead she died most likely of cancer. Why the disrepancy ? Shame. Mental illness carries that type of shame and with it major consequences for those inflicted. The more biological information gathered the greater the society can move away from that shame and garner real support for those inflicted and their families. Great work !
28
Hear, hear! Very well said.
1
Thank you Steven McCarroll and Beth Stevens for your arduous work to better understand the cause/s of schizophrenia.
27
For years, the focus in treatment of psychiatric disorders was on some kind of therapy, especially Freudian therapy. Now, it seems the focus has completely switched to pharmacological treatment of disorders. As a lay person, what I find interesting and apparently unexplored is the connection between what had seemed in the past causative experiences and nurture failures and the internal, chemical and neurotic "causes" of mental illness.
Does it seem to researchers that schizophrenia is caused entirely by chemical/genetic disorders, in the same way that an apparently healthy individual suddenly "comes down with" a genetic disorder, which has lain dormant for many years, or is there some kind of triggering nexus between an outside event in a persons life and chemical changes in that persons brain which, once activated by nurture mistakes or outside shocks/experiences, together "cause" the disease? Is anyone thinking about something like this or is this kind of causal connection completely off base?
Does it seem to researchers that schizophrenia is caused entirely by chemical/genetic disorders, in the same way that an apparently healthy individual suddenly "comes down with" a genetic disorder, which has lain dormant for many years, or is there some kind of triggering nexus between an outside event in a persons life and chemical changes in that persons brain which, once activated by nurture mistakes or outside shocks/experiences, together "cause" the disease? Is anyone thinking about something like this or is this kind of causal connection completely off base?
10
I think that the late teen/young adult is facing the stress of having to earn a living or being trained or educated to earn a living. Moving away from home for the first time and having to be responsible for everything is daunting even for the normal kid. If only parents would see that day coming, and spend more time gradually adding responsibility to their children. Learning to manage a bank account balance correctly, doing one's own laundry, renewing one's license plate, having a part-time job and writing the checks for car insurance. This is no bulwark against schizophrenia, but it's a skill list that is needed, well or not.
1
"Nature vs. nurture" has been studied extensively. The contribution of trauma, poor parenting, etc. CAN influence how the brain works in any individual. Today, research has shown the most effective treatment includes simultaneous application of medications and psychotherapy ("cognitive-behavioral therapy", to be exact).
1
My mother has suffered from schizophrenia her entire adult life and consequently, it took a terrible toll on the rest of the family, myself included. As the story goes, my mother was raped by a neighbor when she was only 6 years old. He banged her head on a rock and left her unconscious on the ground. She became very ill with a high fever and had to be hospitalized. Later on in her teen years, she was gang raped by 4 boys who targeted her because she seemed to be a little "off". My mother grew up in war torn Italy back in the 40's and was the oldest of 8 children. She had an alcoholic father and a mother who struggled to make ends meet. Therefore, your comment really strikes a chord with me since I have always believed that my mother's illness was either caused or triggered by the traumas that she suffered and basically, she was doomed without any hope of ever living a normal life. I consider schizophrenia to be a horrible disease which robs both sufferers and their loved ones of any chance of a decent life.
1
It would be good to know the possible outside influences that may also contribute to schizophrenia. For example, many people attribute smoking pot to increasing the risk to someone who is already genetically inclined toward schizophrenia.
11
Where did you hear THAT?
5
I have always wondered if the behavior of the late teen/young adult, such as beginning to consume alcohol (or pot), might trigger the disorder in those who have the genes for the disorder. So some young people who have the unfortunate genes and who don't indulge in these behaviors during the highest developmental period of risk, might be less likely to develop schizophrenia. Or the reverse, maybe those young people beginning to experience the hearing of voices and paranoia are more likely to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs. If this research results in a blood test for schizophrenia, then we'll have made significant progress.
2
It's what the latest research implies. Google "schizophrenia + marijuana use in adolescence".
2
If the excessive "synapse pruning" is indeed the cause, then it is unlikely there will be an effective counter-measure.
The last think anyone should want is a drug that directly fiddles with synapse formation in a still unformed teenager's brain.
The last think anyone should want is a drug that directly fiddles with synapse formation in a still unformed teenager's brain.
5
How does this square with identical twins, when one develops schizophrenia and the other does not. Many questions yet. Maybe a beginning but certainly not an end.
2
Even identical twin are not 'identical' on every biological level. On a cellular mollecular-biological level, people are mosaics. E.g.: in any female, either of the two X-chromosomes may be (presumed randomly) activated in any cell, the other being dormant. Identical twins would not have identical activation of their X-chromosomes in every cell / tissue.
3
Perhaps there would be epigenetic differences. It's plausible the twin that does not manifest symptoms experienced something different than the symptomatic twin, leading to the gene expressing itself differently. Since large-scale frontal lobe pruning doesn't occur until adolescence, there is plenty of time for each twin to develop sufficiently distinct biological profiles to potentially alter how the C4A and C4B genes phenotypically express themselves.
I taught Psychology 101 for 40 years without adding much of anything to my lectures on Schizophrenia. That is a sad statement on scientific progress. Now, we have a new clue in the genetics of "synaptic pruning." At this writing the NYT article explaining this new clue has 1 reader comment. The article on Donald Trump's spat with Fox has 287 comments.
48
And there you have it.
"At this writing the NYT article explaining this new clue has 1 reader comment. The article on Donald Trump's spat with Fox has 287 comments."
Comments are moderated here, so there's a lag when posts show up. Only those with the green checkmark by their name get immediate posting - they're preapproved as "verified commenters." That said, Trump is more polarizing than research on schizophrenia so it's no surprise that piece has more comments. However, this piece is the number 2 in most viewed right now. That tells me it's compelling information people want to read but it doesn't mean people have something worthwhile to add about it in a comment in the same way they might express a political opinion.
Comments are moderated here, so there's a lag when posts show up. Only those with the green checkmark by their name get immediate posting - they're preapproved as "verified commenters." That said, Trump is more polarizing than research on schizophrenia so it's no surprise that piece has more comments. However, this piece is the number 2 in most viewed right now. That tells me it's compelling information people want to read but it doesn't mean people have something worthwhile to add about it in a comment in the same way they might express a political opinion.
13
I'm certainly much more interested about this that anything coming out of Donald Trump. Some of us are just very busy caring for the mentally ill.
This article and the researchers quoted make the same narcissistic error that both reporters and "scientists" make when finding one mechanism that causes disfunction/disease, which is to report it as if that one mechanism explains all cases of disfunction/disease, which usually is not the case. One identified mechanism of disease is only one way a disease can be caused, and frequently some of the mechanisms identified do not even account for the majority of the cases.
In this respect this article is just dishonest.
In this respect this article is just dishonest.
4
Neither the scientists nor the journalists have claimed that C4 explains all cases of schizophrenia.
8
if you take my son off the medications and he committs suicide we will sue how is a scientist ever going to fix that
I'm so sorry for your son's condition, but I think I missed the part of the article where it proposed taking anyone off medication. Could you point it out, please?
11
Maybe I'm missing something, but a 0.25% increase in the risk of schizophrenia seems a might small hook to hang a coat on. At best, a bread crumb, but the bottom line is that science still doesn't know what causes of schizophrenia.
17
And yet, that is how science proceeds....
9
It's 25% not 0.25% Oh my God! Why are Facebook people accorded special status? I have to be a doctor or president to get a etter published but if I am one of 2 billion who have a Facebook account I can muddy the waters! I mean yes I know why but how's it working?
3
The increase in risk is 25%, not 0.25%. If you carry the gene variant you are 25% more likely to develop schizophrenia than someone who doesn't.
10