We know that Plutonium 210 is a rare element and almost certainly came from one specific Russian nuclear reactor according to the British report. Before he died Mr. Litvinenko identified the two Russians that provided the fatal tea (poring the remainder down the sink drain contaminating the hotel and the sewers of London). Either Mr. Putin authorized the operation or he must not have full control of Russian nuclear assets.
2
The article "fails" to mention that Mr.Lugovoy had been polygraph-questioned by the British specialists invited to Russia and found non-guilty. Also, the resulting judgement of this "public" trial which is full of "possible", " must be", "maybe", "it appears to be", "I am not certain, but I think..." put the British legal system in such a dirty gutter that it will be rather difficult for it to regain at least some respect. And what it was all for? To account somehow for this predetermined outcome? Or try to decrease Russians' respect to Putin? In both cases it fails!
2
Polygraph tests are inadmissible for a reason--their intrinsic unreliability. A trained spy such as Lugovoy could defeat one.
2
It is not the question of inadmissibility for a trial - it is an issue of what is more "probable" - the exact result of this test or hundreds of pages of Robert Owen's report containing tons of "probable but problematic" allegations. Megatons of wishful thinking the aim of which is clearly seen - to wipe the floor with Russia and Putin. Sorry, but it works the other way!
2
You missed the point--it isn't the inadmissibility of a trial but the fact that the passing of a lie detector test is of no probative value at all. The "exact result of this test" means absolutely nothing. On the other hand, the difficulty in getting polonium and the authoritarian, top-down nature of Putin's government make Judge Owen's thesis decidedly probable.
3
January 22, 2016
It appreciated that the trail for the Plutonium was absolutely a fact and having evil expressed at the worst possible form anywhere on earth is just a red alert to all the world. Leveraging the fission for geopolitics and fusion for domestic politics is as modern and ancient in the affairs of state interest but this let's make sure we are all on the page that we police ourselves in the matter of radioactivity. The depth of the pdf report is excellence even with many items needing to further be resolved if ever -but there is enough to give attention to visitors to countries and visa tolerances to understand the risks and the regard for survival primary directives. Mr. V. Putin is as much horrified by the affairs of state and should continue to give just remedy towards zero tolerance exported especially from his orbit.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
It appreciated that the trail for the Plutonium was absolutely a fact and having evil expressed at the worst possible form anywhere on earth is just a red alert to all the world. Leveraging the fission for geopolitics and fusion for domestic politics is as modern and ancient in the affairs of state interest but this let's make sure we are all on the page that we police ourselves in the matter of radioactivity. The depth of the pdf report is excellence even with many items needing to further be resolved if ever -but there is enough to give attention to visitors to countries and visa tolerances to understand the risks and the regard for survival primary directives. Mr. V. Putin is as much horrified by the affairs of state and should continue to give just remedy towards zero tolerance exported especially from his orbit.
jja Manhattan, N.Y.
2
Most comments here trade in "mental derivatives" - opinions on opinions which as we all know everybody has (at least) one!
The validity or benefit of this exesize is highly debatable as evidence and facts of the matter get further and further diluted (it's like a cousin twice removed!) .
With that in mind, may I offer one fact that no one has mentioned yet:
Mr. Lugovoi has passed a polygraph test administered by the Brits WITH FLYING COLOURS!
The validity or benefit of this exesize is highly debatable as evidence and facts of the matter get further and further diluted (it's like a cousin twice removed!) .
With that in mind, may I offer one fact that no one has mentioned yet:
Mr. Lugovoi has passed a polygraph test administered by the Brits WITH FLYING COLOURS!
To Mr. Stasnovikov:
Before you further comment on the report of Robert Owen,
I would urge that you read it. You will be surprised to discover that
the polygraph test is carefully discussed (and dissected).
Before you further comment on the report of Robert Owen,
I would urge that you read it. You will be surprised to discover that
the polygraph test is carefully discussed (and dissected).
There are many things wrong with the “Putin did it” story. For one, what would be the motive? Litvinenko was a critic of Russia, but he was no threat whatsoever to Putin. The best evidence indicates that the man worked with Chechen terrorists and the Israeli-Russian oligarchs. But let’s assume that there was a sufficient motive to kill him: Why would Russia use a very rare, very expensive, and easily traceable radioactive substance to kill him instead of some cheap poison or just shooting him? Why risk smuggling radioactive material into the UK which is an act of war? Yet that is exactly what the UK/US media would have you believe. They want to say that Putin had someone sneak into the UK with polonium and poison Litvinenko with it. It just isn’t plausible. It’s actually absurd.
The polonium involved would have cost millions—and would have been impossible to insert in a tea cup in a public place. The fact that there is widespread contamination indicates that Litvinenko probably was contaminated and then contaminated others. Why he was contaminated or perhaps involved in a smuggling operation is another matter. The Russians did not participate in this inquiry and the “facts” presented to the Judge were probably slanted. Frankly, while this may be great propaganda, the story is simply not believable.
The polonium involved would have cost millions—and would have been impossible to insert in a tea cup in a public place. The fact that there is widespread contamination indicates that Litvinenko probably was contaminated and then contaminated others. Why he was contaminated or perhaps involved in a smuggling operation is another matter. The Russians did not participate in this inquiry and the “facts” presented to the Judge were probably slanted. Frankly, while this may be great propaganda, the story is simply not believable.
It was probable.
Was it probable?
Yes, it was probable.
But proof that would stand up in a court of law looks differently.
What does it say about Russia and the way it treats adversaries?
Pretty much the same it says about any other powerful government, that they all do not stop at sending letters, saying it would be nice if one was to shut up.
Whoever is free of sins, may throw the first stone.
Which means that those who now cry out may shut up immediately.
Sad but true, US, GB, Israeli, Chinese and many other governments have a long standing history of killing outside the law and without court proceedings.
The British government has a long history of killing adversaries and is very proud of quite a few such killings executed by MI5, MI6 and special forces around the world.
It would help tremendously if those who accuse others would have a clean record before they climb the moral high ground.
Was it probable?
Yes, it was probable.
But proof that would stand up in a court of law looks differently.
What does it say about Russia and the way it treats adversaries?
Pretty much the same it says about any other powerful government, that they all do not stop at sending letters, saying it would be nice if one was to shut up.
Whoever is free of sins, may throw the first stone.
Which means that those who now cry out may shut up immediately.
Sad but true, US, GB, Israeli, Chinese and many other governments have a long standing history of killing outside the law and without court proceedings.
The British government has a long history of killing adversaries and is very proud of quite a few such killings executed by MI5, MI6 and special forces around the world.
It would help tremendously if those who accuse others would have a clean record before they climb the moral high ground.
2
If we dwell on probably crimes we will never have time for doing anything else! What a waste of time!
This at first thought is not a US fight. Litvinenko was not assassinated on our soil by Russian agents and it is up to Britain to respond--which so far they have not in a craven demonstration of why the US should review its commitments to a "soft" and self-indulgent (low defense expenditures) Europe.
Yet it also is a demonstration (a minor one but with much other evidence, e.g. Ukraine and Crimea) of why Russia--the gangster state with nuclear weapons--once more has become a serious threat to us. And thus, paradoxically and with infinite irritation, maybe we--in our own interests--do have to help those lazy Europeans with some backbone to their own defense against the gangster Russian state.
Yet it also is a demonstration (a minor one but with much other evidence, e.g. Ukraine and Crimea) of why Russia--the gangster state with nuclear weapons--once more has become a serious threat to us. And thus, paradoxically and with infinite irritation, maybe we--in our own interests--do have to help those lazy Europeans with some backbone to their own defense against the gangster Russian state.
1
It should not have taken Russia's annexation of Crimea to force the West to wake up that we face a dastardly foe in Vladamir Putin. He has always been antagonistic to the West from the moment he took office after Yeltsin's death. I'm not advocating nuking Moscow tomorrow or breaking off diplomatic relations, but just that our politicians realize that they are many countries and leaders who really hate us. They do not want to become America-lite. They don't share our values. We can still deal with them day to day, but our relationship has to be grounded in reality. I think--finally!--Obama and European leaders have grasped this when it comes to Putin.
Unfortunately, they now appear to be enraptured by the Iranian leadership. When will we ever learn?
Unfortunately, they now appear to be enraptured by the Iranian leadership. When will we ever learn?
1
Don't spies, even ex-spies get killed now and then? Why the big fuss? Though, not sure why they wouldn't use a less complicated method, like a bullet in the head, by spies who can enter any country with forged or stolen passports.
Well, it is considered a nuclear strike on England. Of course if conventional weapon was used, it would have been an ordinary case.
Does anyone recall that in 2001 George W. Bush said "I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul." Either the British are being very unjust, or else Bush was a very poor judge of character.
I wonder what the Obama-haters would have said if Obama had ever made such a statement.
I wonder what the Obama-haters would have said if Obama had ever made such a statement.
1
Obama didn't. Bush did.
1
When thousands die it's just an event, when one man dies it's a tragedy.
Litvinenko may or or may not have been poisoned by Russian agents but the attacks on MSF were definitely authorized by US govt at the highest level.
Litvinenko may or or may not have been poisoned by Russian agents but the attacks on MSF were definitely authorized by US govt at the highest level.
1
I'm not a fan of Putin (who's essentially an autocrat). However, I'm surprised that the UK, whose courts tend to favor the plaintiff in cases of slander and libel, would rely so heavily on hearsay and conjecture in rendering a judgment.
The judgment was right. They did not accuse Putin, just pointed to the obvious - Polonium is not sold in grocery stores. Likewise, when Putin claimed Russian terrorists in Ukraine bought their tanks and rocked launchers 'in a store', everyone clearly understands Putin gives orders to supply those terrorists with weapons, even though his orders are not available to international investigators yet.
1
It was probable.
Was it probable?
Yes, it was probable.
But proof that would stand up in a court of law looks differently.
What does it say about Russia and the way it treats adversaries?
Pretty much the same it says about any other powerful government, that they all do not stop at sending letters, saying it would be nice if one was to shut up.
Whoever is free of sins, may throw the first stone.
Which means that those who now cry out may shut up immediately.
Sad but true, US, GB, Israeli, Chinese and many other governments have a long standing history of killing outside the law and without court proceedings.
The British government has a long history of killing adversaries and is very proud of quite a few such killings executed by MI5, MI6 and special forces around the world.
It would help tremendously if those who accuse others would have a clean record before they climb the moral high ground.
Was it probable?
Yes, it was probable.
But proof that would stand up in a court of law looks differently.
What does it say about Russia and the way it treats adversaries?
Pretty much the same it says about any other powerful government, that they all do not stop at sending letters, saying it would be nice if one was to shut up.
Whoever is free of sins, may throw the first stone.
Which means that those who now cry out may shut up immediately.
Sad but true, US, GB, Israeli, Chinese and many other governments have a long standing history of killing outside the law and without court proceedings.
The British government has a long history of killing adversaries and is very proud of quite a few such killings executed by MI5, MI6 and special forces around the world.
It would help tremendously if those who accuse others would have a clean record before they climb the moral high ground.
this from a country whose PM lied to his people and the world to justify the invasion of Iraq and whose inquire into this, the Chilcot inquiry is still wrapped up in secret two years after ending.
The British judiciary seems very efficient when attacking -- without a shed of proof of Putin's personal intervention -- a foreign country, much less so when it is its own people that it should punish.
The British judiciary seems very efficient when attacking -- without a shed of proof of Putin's personal intervention -- a foreign country, much less so when it is its own people that it should punish.
1
Another lesson in political science: 1) other than name-calling no Western government has any capacity or will to actually seek to indict a senior Russian, Chinese or Iranian official; 2) at the next level, watch Hillary decide to try to end the email scandal (again) by throwing one of her underlings under the proverbial bus as the evidence of classified data on the private server leads to indictments; 3) and finally we have all the rest of us who, because of the unlimited breadth of criminal statutes that require no malice or motive, are each right now a whim away from being indicted. You are much easier to control when the Government can haul you away at any moment, and you know it.
2
Who knew? It seems the Brits, who have given us 27 years (and counting) of denial, stonewalling, cover-up, and rejection of every form of accountability in the Thatcher-ordered assassination of lawyer Pat Finucane, don't approve of state-sponsored murder.
3
Thatcher was a cold woman and the Pat Finucane assassination was reprehensible. However, it is now 2016 and almost 17 years have passed. There have been four new governments and even more Prime Ministers since then. I think we have regained the right to disapprove of state sponsored murder by now, don't you?
Incidentally, the current PM, David Cameron, met with relatives of Pat Finucane in 2011 and admitted that the government of the time colluded with the assassins. We're past denial.
Incidentally, the current PM, David Cameron, met with relatives of Pat Finucane in 2011 and admitted that the government of the time colluded with the assassins. We're past denial.
5
Well that's interesting, I don't see Mr. Finucane walking out of the grave pleased to know that the government of Britain finally accepted that it "Colluded" to kill him. Same thing happened with Lady Di, and several other people executed by the British government since the dawn of the British Empire. Once an execution is ordered by the government you cant just regained the right to accuse other governments my friend.
1
My loathing for Thatcher and her lickspittles was one of my main reasons for leaving the UK in 1992. There has been, however, no evidence produced to date that Thatcher or any of her ministers ordered the murder of Pat Finucane or any other member of PIRA's Belfast Brigade.
It is undeniable that successive UK governments failed to take the murderous activities of Protestant so-called 'Loyalist' Paramilitary groups in Belfast as seriously as they did the murderous activities of the Provisional IRA. It is reprehensible, for example, that the UDA were not proscribed as a terrorist group until August 1992.
All this, understandably, has led to speculation that a minister in Thatcher's government or Thatcher herself ordered the murder of Pat Finucane, or knew that Finucane's murder was imminent, or knew soon after the event about the security forces' likely involvement but chose to keep silent.
I feel for the Finucane family. The De Silva Report won't suffice. There must be a full public inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane. The inquiry needs to have all the powers of a Royal Commission but it must be headed by a jurisprudist who is a fully independent foreign national of impeccable reputation. Ideally, therefore, the Inquiry judge, while a fluent English speaker and writer, would not come from a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, nor from a former British Colony, or from NATO.
The prominent Swiss jurist Walter Kälin, perhaps, would be a good choice here.
It is undeniable that successive UK governments failed to take the murderous activities of Protestant so-called 'Loyalist' Paramilitary groups in Belfast as seriously as they did the murderous activities of the Provisional IRA. It is reprehensible, for example, that the UDA were not proscribed as a terrorist group until August 1992.
All this, understandably, has led to speculation that a minister in Thatcher's government or Thatcher herself ordered the murder of Pat Finucane, or knew that Finucane's murder was imminent, or knew soon after the event about the security forces' likely involvement but chose to keep silent.
I feel for the Finucane family. The De Silva Report won't suffice. There must be a full public inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane. The inquiry needs to have all the powers of a Royal Commission but it must be headed by a jurisprudist who is a fully independent foreign national of impeccable reputation. Ideally, therefore, the Inquiry judge, while a fluent English speaker and writer, would not come from a member of the Commonwealth of Nations, nor from a former British Colony, or from NATO.
The prominent Swiss jurist Walter Kälin, perhaps, would be a good choice here.
3
And this is the man Trump sees as a valued partner....
3
Not a great day for the British legal system. Tells much about 150 years of British russophobia, British decline. The mouse, once center of a great empire, has roared again, but what came out was a pathetic squeak.
1
I don't think anyone who is the least bit familiar with Russian history can in any way be surprised that the Litvinenko murder could easily have been anticipated. From the time of the Mongol invasion, circa 1240 CE, Russia and its empire have been bywords for political instability and despotism. With the coming of communism Moscow's predilection for dealing with dissenters and political opponents through the simple expedient of killing as many of them as they could lay hands on ultimately resulted in state-sponsored deaths running into the tens of millions. Vladimir Putin's Russia may have shed the intellectual trappings of communism, but is national character has changed very little over the course of the last millennium.
Bringing those responsible for the Litvinenko murder to justice will not happen anytime soon so long is Putin remains in power. In fact, Putin and his henchmen are so confident that all of this will soon go away that they could not be bothered with ginning up a plausible cover story for themselves.
Bringing those responsible for the Litvinenko murder to justice will not happen anytime soon so long is Putin remains in power. In fact, Putin and his henchmen are so confident that all of this will soon go away that they could not be bothered with ginning up a plausible cover story for themselves.
8
That there is no concrete evidence to prove that Putin had anything to do with
this episode, demonstrates that the assumption is not true.
One can then dismiss the whole thing without evidence.
FDK
this episode, demonstrates that the assumption is not true.
One can then dismiss the whole thing without evidence.
FDK
I don't know which is more frightening, the idea of Putin having accepted the murder, or the idea of low-level agents roaming loose without approval of their supervisors pouring polonium to various teapots. Or the idea of low-level agents getting their hands on the substance in the first place, the main use of the stuff is as neutron initiators in plutonium-based nuclear bombs.
Sounds like polonium has replaced the ice axe as the messenger of fear.
Sounds like polonium has replaced the ice axe as the messenger of fear.
1
Ummmmm. Is anyone going to write an article about Trump endorsing this guy? Trump endorses murderer. Done.
6
The one thing that puzzles me is this: if Polonium 210 is so radioactive, that Mr. Litvinenko had to be buried in a lead-ligned coffin, how did the alleged perpetrators bring it into Britain?
Even if it is hidden in some kind of an enclosure, maybe in a diplomatic pouch, that would/could/should have been detected and traced?
And where was it stored? How did (again, the alleged perps) carry it around, casually walking into a hotel to have a tea?
Even if it is hidden in some kind of an enclosure, maybe in a diplomatic pouch, that would/could/should have been detected and traced?
And where was it stored? How did (again, the alleged perps) carry it around, casually walking into a hotel to have a tea?
3
Sadly, the idea that we carefully screen all travelers for nuclear, biological or chemical weapons is a myth. We absolutely could do this, but, it would cost far too much money for taxpayers to be willing to go along with it.
3
Polonium-210 emits alpha radiation, which unlike gamma radiation (the type given off by uranium and the like) is not able to penetrate even thin barriers - in fact, it can't even penetrate skin. You could hold polonium-210 in your hand and suffer no ill effects.
However, once ingested into the body it's entirely different. It will be dispersed throughout the body, via the digestive system and the blood, and the alpha radiation can then wreak havoc with the body's cells.
This also explains why it's so difficult to detect - since even a simple container would contain the radiation, there would be no outward signs of radioactivity to be detected.
However, once ingested into the body it's entirely different. It will be dispersed throughout the body, via the digestive system and the blood, and the alpha radiation can then wreak havoc with the body's cells.
This also explains why it's so difficult to detect - since even a simple container would contain the radiation, there would be no outward signs of radioactivity to be detected.
10
This report is as good as the MH-17 report - garbage - totally politically based with objectives dictated from DC as to a conclusion
"probably" such nonsense!
"probably" such nonsense!
5
Did Putin set an example for Obama, or have US leaders set an example for the Russians?
Does it matter that the US kills more people in Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria than do the Russians?
We cannot do much to change the behavior of others, but why not change our own?
Does it matter that the US kills more people in Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria than do the Russians?
We cannot do much to change the behavior of others, but why not change our own?
1
Reminds me of the plot of the movie "D.O.A" where a man goes to the police to report his death from a slow acting poison. the movie was prescient of the Litvinenko case.
2
He didn't "approve of poisoning", he most certainly ordered it. One would have to lack any understanding of how the Russian government operates in order not to see this.
9
A British judge that can see all the way into the Kremlin from London and make a judgement on what he "saw" and who did and said what, when ?
I would really hate to front this judge.
I would really hate to front this judge.
1
The findings of this report do not surprise me. Nor am I surprised that Litvineko was assassinated in the first place. Litvinenko was a defector. Defectors are fair game for the intelligence agency from which they deserted, be it the FSB, CIA, MI6 etc. Any defector is considered a traitor, and is immediately in the crosshairs. That it took them so long to get to him is the real surprise.
That said, Litvinenko is a martyr and a hero. His accusations that Putin planned the Russian apartment bombings in order to consolidate power are compelling. This article has inspired me to read his book: Blowing Up Russia, Terror From Within.
That said, Litvinenko is a martyr and a hero. His accusations that Putin planned the Russian apartment bombings in order to consolidate power are compelling. This article has inspired me to read his book: Blowing Up Russia, Terror From Within.
5
Also read "The unlikely Rise of Vladimir Putin" by Masha Gessen.
2
Figured that out, did they? Well, I wouldn't think Russia would give Mr. Litvinenko a medal for public service after he quit their spy agency and joined MI6. One has to wonder how long he expected to remain alive.
2
The US as well as the Brits want to wipe Putin out of the picture, since he fails to play their (NATO) game of New World Order (new-wave human slavery) and will take any opportunity they can to PROBABLY remove Putin.
2
Round up the usual subjects... they must be at MI6, of course.
Ignore the dying man's words, they offend his killers.
Ignore the street killing, shots in the back, murder of the lady journalist.
For Putin is an honorable man... and, to be sure,
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
Litvinenko's was murdered... his wife was spared...
And his killers walk not in England but away..
In a place where killing is normal, and denial is more so.
Ignore the dying man's words, they offend his killers.
Ignore the street killing, shots in the back, murder of the lady journalist.
For Putin is an honorable man... and, to be sure,
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
Litvinenko's was murdered... his wife was spared...
And his killers walk not in England but away..
In a place where killing is normal, and denial is more so.
2
Why has this not been made into a movie yet? Why of course, writers and directors don't want to be poisoned.
The most elegant — if chilling — articulation of what was at play here, and what tragic Russia has descended to under Putin the gangster, was supplied by the courageous Alexander Litvinenko himself: a mafia state in which the roles of government, organized crime, and the spy agencies have grown indistinguishable.
That this brave man paid with his life for articulating and exposing this — as did his friend, the equally heroic Anna Politskovskaya, among others — is a needed reminder that decency and courage continue to make tyrants tremble, everywhere.
I have so much respect for Marina Litvinenko for pressing this investigation despite her grief, and for the U.K. for conducting it — they have assured that Mr. Litvinenko's death will not be in vain. May he rest in peace knowing this.
@ricfouad
That this brave man paid with his life for articulating and exposing this — as did his friend, the equally heroic Anna Politskovskaya, among others — is a needed reminder that decency and courage continue to make tyrants tremble, everywhere.
I have so much respect for Marina Litvinenko for pressing this investigation despite her grief, and for the U.K. for conducting it — they have assured that Mr. Litvinenko's death will not be in vain. May he rest in peace knowing this.
@ricfouad
36
Ric - I am not sure anyone is trembling, least of all Putin. Maybe the guy who poisoned him but I doubt he worries about much if he can sit and watch another man drink poisoned tea.
1
How do you feel about the Iranian scientists murdered one after another?
The Iraqis? The Afghanis en masse?
Geez, the US makes action movies about black ops and agents going rogue.
Have you seen any of the Bourne movies, where the protagonist openly admits to killing total strangers?
Isn't glorifying death, as entertainment just as bad, as actually doing the killing yourself?
The Iraqis? The Afghanis en masse?
Geez, the US makes action movies about black ops and agents going rogue.
Have you seen any of the Bourne movies, where the protagonist openly admits to killing total strangers?
Isn't glorifying death, as entertainment just as bad, as actually doing the killing yourself?
2
"Elegant articulation"?
Plain stupid political mud throwing!
A judge should not sinkl that low.
Plain stupid political mud throwing!
A judge should not sinkl that low.
Stalin killed millions. The Times was complicit in whitewashing the Ukrainian genocide. Now we're talking about a single murder. I guess that's progress.
6
So? JFK likely approved the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem 20 days before he was assassinated. JFK had also been trying to assassinate Castro. Furthermore, the US gov., under Obama has assassinated several US Citizens through Drone Strikes without ANY charges being brought against them or any chance for them to respond or prevent a defense. I know I know, this is just good old fashioned Russia bashing from the Ministry of Information.
5
So he dumps a little extra into his bathroom sink, which then enters the sewers of London. That goes out into London waterways, and into the Atlantic Ocean, yes? If this is true, it's a high crime against the planet as well.
1
Russian response uses emotional language ("politicized, hidden") to avert answering to criticism. If Russian government has nothing to hide, why not to present facts, Mr. V. Putin.
5
Presenting facts - aka burden of proof - rests with the accuser, not the accused.
4
Why should we care if one Russian spy kills another Russian spy? Putin is in charge of his spy agency. If another country killed a Russian Spy, say that a British spy killed a Russian spy, everyone would have probably said, "Good for him." The opinion from the beginning was that Putin did it. They could have just gone to a pub and talked about it. The answer would have been the same except a lot less time and money and a lot more fun.
5
The hypocrisy on this forum is amazing--not least for how few posters seem to have noticed it. How many people do you think the CIA and other US-paid operatives have murdered worldwide for political or other reasons--say over the past 50 years--with the tacit or overt permission of the President--or even under his direct orders?
(Hint: You'll probably need more than your fingers and toes to count them, and you should probably include "allies" as well as "enemies"--see "President Diem of South Vietnam" for example).
How many or which of those US Presidents do you think should be prosecuted as a criminal if a hostile foreign government leverages a retired judge's credibility to announce that such and such US President "probably" had so and so killed, and which sectors of the US economy would foreign governments be justified in sanctioning?
If nothing else, it would be a revealing exercise.
(Hint: You'll probably need more than your fingers and toes to count them, and you should probably include "allies" as well as "enemies"--see "President Diem of South Vietnam" for example).
How many or which of those US Presidents do you think should be prosecuted as a criminal if a hostile foreign government leverages a retired judge's credibility to announce that such and such US President "probably" had so and so killed, and which sectors of the US economy would foreign governments be justified in sanctioning?
If nothing else, it would be a revealing exercise.
21
Exactly American hypocrisy is so laughable it is unbelievable we are the worlds biggest hypocrite on planet earth. It is truly stunning.
5
Give ma a break. No one has ever provided evidence that an American president has stepped completely outside the law and had a personal political opponent murdered by one its spy agencies.Not even Nixon went that far. Has the U.S, used assassination for its NATIONAL purposes? Undoubtedly. There are also diplomatic and international agreements of which friendly countries that cooperate with one another do not go into the other country to capture or murder an alleged enemy unless it has permission first. You probably will discover that the Russians never consulted with the British before murdering Mr. Litvinenko.
7
Let alone democratically elected leaders booted out by the CIA,
Patrice Lumumba of Congo
Salvador Allende of Chile
Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran
to name just three.
Patrice Lumumba of Congo
Salvador Allende of Chile
Mohammed Mossadegh of Iran
to name just three.
4
Obviously, they want a war with Russia. I guess military industrial complex is starving under Obama. Things are about to change, I believe.
6
Even Japan is stating, to conquer Isis, requires Russia. US wasn't mentioned.
Indeed THEY will do ANYTHING to start a WAR with Russia. Putin cares less of getting involved in their sick games.
Indeed THEY will do ANYTHING to start a WAR with Russia. Putin cares less of getting involved in their sick games.
1
It only shows you can take the dictator out of the KGB but you can't take the KGB out of the dictator.
6
The UK is awash in Russian oligarch and other Russian dirty money. Cameron isn't going to say or do anything.
5
Their economy would start to crumble - who do you think buys all the land in London?
We need to start fixing our own house before we go telling other countries how they should handle their own business. This is why we are hated we stick our noses in other countries and flaunt our righteousness when the CIA has killed people that have tried to expose them you all remember JFK he was one of them they killed because he wanted them disbanded. So we have no right to accuse Putin at all when we are doing the exact same thing you just dont hear about it from the media at all because they keep it secret.
8
The CIA did not kill JFK, although JFK (and probably Bobby) did kill Diem and his brother.
5
We have every right to tell the Russians it is NOT ok to poison their former agents, in a foreign country where they are now citizens.
But in any case, this was a UK, not an American, investigation. And most decent countries do try to investigate the unnatural deaths of their residents.
But in any case, this was a UK, not an American, investigation. And most decent countries do try to investigate the unnatural deaths of their residents.
3
The hard evidence points in the right direction but just as Putin & Company have deflected criticism from obvious guilty conclusions every time in the past no form of consequential punishment directives would be effective. So in time they fade and although another tarnishing of his image goes on he proceeds as though nothing has happened to begin another sinister plot to stifle freedom .
2
This battle between the world's leading intelligence agencies has played out on the front page of our newspapers. Litvinenko was Russian intelligence, then he turned and worked for MI5, then Russia whacked him.
After reading fiction and non-fiction spy novels for years, I concluded getting whacked was common workplace hazard. I also concluded that Western intelligence agencies did the same thing to double agents or agents in exile. Litvinenko made some bold claims, including that Putin staged a false flag terrorist attack, "the apartment bombings", in order to blame Muslims and rise to power.
Frankly, I would rather a British judge investigate these claims. Litvinenko made many more audacious claims, some perhaps true, and some which frankly appeared to be British misinformation, where Britain appeared to want to show the world's billionaires, in exile in London, that Britain has their back. Litvinenko's first bold claim was that Russian intelligence killed a billionaire.
Billionaires and big newspapers in London and New York have always presented Litvinenko in the best possible light. A deeper dive shows he's perhaps an unstable character and a man who lived his life in the shadows where there is no truth, only propaganda and sponsors.
What makes this case unique is the willingness of Western governments to point fingers, hire judges/investigators and turn a rogue spy situation into a public propaganda endeavor.
After reading fiction and non-fiction spy novels for years, I concluded getting whacked was common workplace hazard. I also concluded that Western intelligence agencies did the same thing to double agents or agents in exile. Litvinenko made some bold claims, including that Putin staged a false flag terrorist attack, "the apartment bombings", in order to blame Muslims and rise to power.
Frankly, I would rather a British judge investigate these claims. Litvinenko made many more audacious claims, some perhaps true, and some which frankly appeared to be British misinformation, where Britain appeared to want to show the world's billionaires, in exile in London, that Britain has their back. Litvinenko's first bold claim was that Russian intelligence killed a billionaire.
Billionaires and big newspapers in London and New York have always presented Litvinenko in the best possible light. A deeper dive shows he's perhaps an unstable character and a man who lived his life in the shadows where there is no truth, only propaganda and sponsors.
What makes this case unique is the willingness of Western governments to point fingers, hire judges/investigators and turn a rogue spy situation into a public propaganda endeavor.
11
Thank you for that literate and thoughtful comment. Now back to our sponsors at Kremlin Central.
7
A murder is committed in the UK by agents of a foreign power. I wonder if the UK has a RICO-like statute that could be used to to convict the perpetrators and take down the corrupt enterprise - the Russian Federation. Too much to hope for, I suppose...but the International Criminal Court in the Hague is designed to eliminate the culture of impunity among national leaders...could it or similar institutions be harnessed to curbing the excesses of the current Russian regime.
2
The International Criminal Court is for little country leaders.
2
That's nice of Britain to spend its time and money investigating Russian crimes. What? They haven't enough crime of their own in Britain to investigate?
3
This was a crime committed in Britain. Should they not investigate it because it was committed by Russians?
5
Shows how safe Britain is, you get killed.
The US assasinates people we deem national security threats. Whats the difference?
6
The difference is you don't jeopardize innocent people with polonium contamination especially on foreign soil. That's an unjustified nuclear attack on another country not at war.
11
Um, drones? collateral damage?
3
I think we've created our share of "collateral damage" as well.
Evidence in capital cases has to be event-specific if it is to be valid. The purely political judgments rendered by the British court of inquiry obscure several pertinent facts, namely that Litvinenko was close to Berezovsky, a position perhaps relished by numerous people in Britian, emigres and others alike, which made him a target for removal from the financial scene. As to the source of the polonium 210, it may be that Litvinenko's several trips to Israel (sic) served to identify him to agents of the Zionist government, which is, in reality, the source of the isotope. A brilliant trail was likely laid by some of these agents so as to implicate Russia as the culprit, when in fact, a conspiracy between the British and Israeli governments was the source of this first ever elevation of a nucleotide to the status of a tactical nuclear weapon used against an individual. How shocking!
7
Mossad's agents must have put polonium in Mr Lugovoi's pocket and he incidentally poisoned his friend Litvinenko!
3
It seems unlikely that the Russian agents would undertake such a risky operation. It certainly could not have occurred by accident. Incidentally, in my comment above, I referred to a "Nucleotide", which Polonium 210 certainly is not. The correct term is "Nuclide".
So what? Obama certainly approved the offing of the "radical Muslim cleric" a couple of years ago, not to mention his teenage son. And this makes a difference how? Certainly the US would off any spies likely to spill secrets to foreign powers.
As for those proposing all sorts of nasty things be done to Putin and Russia: grow up, people. Look! A squirrel!
As for those proposing all sorts of nasty things be done to Putin and Russia: grow up, people. Look! A squirrel!
7
This is probaly nonsense. Why a "probably" accusation is even taken seriously by anybody?
Go to a court with that and you'll get thrown out for frivolous filing.
Go to a court with that and you'll get thrown out for frivolous filing.
15
It seems that you can't take the KGB out of the Czar of Russia, now that he is "respectable" as a world leader.
3
George H.W. Bush, the first President Bush was a former CIA Director, (certainly a much higher rank, than whatever Putin held) and as such was ultimately in charge of and responsible for everything (including black ops, clandestine assassinations et al) that went on under his stewardship of the Agency.
I pity the widow of Mr. Litvinenko, as she's being used as a pawn in the British government's totally self-serving policies towards Russia.
I pity the widow of Mr. Litvinenko, as she's being used as a pawn in the British government's totally self-serving policies towards Russia.
4
It's not enough to fear endemic global Russian crime. The Russian State itself has become a murderous kleptocracy that refuses to stop even at contaminating innocent people in another nation's capital in order to fulfill its murderous intent.
Any state of such a nature is self-condemned to wallow in the backwater of history. Nobody trusts Russia. Most Internet users reflexively trash any missive carrying the domain suffix ".ru". Justified or not, Russians themselves tend not to be trusted as business or diplomacy partners.
How does a country grow and prosper under such self-imposed conditions? It does not, but it can wreak a lot of damage as it folds.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
Any state of such a nature is self-condemned to wallow in the backwater of history. Nobody trusts Russia. Most Internet users reflexively trash any missive carrying the domain suffix ".ru". Justified or not, Russians themselves tend not to be trusted as business or diplomacy partners.
How does a country grow and prosper under such self-imposed conditions? It does not, but it can wreak a lot of damage as it folds.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
7
You appear to have a very deeply rooted bias. Your flowery vocabulary can't mask that.
So, tell me: where is this poisonous attitude come from? And exactly what are you trying to achieve by repeating the exact same one-sided, subjective garbage over and over again?
So, tell me: where is this poisonous attitude come from? And exactly what are you trying to achieve by repeating the exact same one-sided, subjective garbage over and over again?
6
No doubt Alexander Litvinenko had suffered much pain before he died 22 days later after he was poisoned.
If the Kremlin wanted to take revenge on him, because he defected and sought to cooperate with British the intelligence MI 6, why couldn't the two killers - Dmitri Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoi - put a bullet in Litvinenko's head and spare him a slow and agonising death?
If the Kremlin wanted to take revenge on him, because he defected and sought to cooperate with British the intelligence MI 6, why couldn't the two killers - Dmitri Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoi - put a bullet in Litvinenko's head and spare him a slow and agonising death?
7
Good to know that the last human being on this planet who had any doubt that Vladimir Putin gave the order to murder Alexander Litvinenko with radioactive material, Robert Owen, has now concluded that Putin "probably" did it.
I can't begin to express my sense of relief that it's now unanimous.
I can't begin to express my sense of relief that it's now unanimous.
14
If its' sarcasm you wrote, I'm with you.
If not, I'm not.
If not, I'm not.
4
waldo:
Of course it's sarcasm.
How come I can't find you?
Of course it's sarcasm.
How come I can't find you?
6
waldo's command of English is not that strong - it is after all rather significantly different from Russian, and sarcasm is hard to translate anyway. He interpreted your remarks to mean that you were saying (sarcastically) that everyone knows Putin DIDN'T do it.
So based on this information America is saintly in comparison. Just don't open the closet because all the skeletons will fall out..............
13
Why go there? Is it a requirement that when you find out that someone or some country did something really bad that you have to note that the US does bad things, too? Fine. Duly noted. Now give it a rest for a while.
7
To issue a "probably" type of report with nothing but the opinion of some conservative British upper class member as evidence is to merely voice an opinion of questionable objectivity by someone who has no doubt long believed that every Russian is a communist and a hidden foe that contributed to the downfall of the British empire. Please put your pre-conceptions aside Mr. Owen and leave the investigations to persons with more objective credentials than yours.
12
Betcha he's Lord Owen of Chelsea next Birthday Honours.
3
Why bother with an investigation. A blind man could connect the dots and see that the trail leads right back to Putin.
1) Litvinenko was a sworn enemy of Putin and the F.S.B and was considered a traitor.
2) Enemies of Putin and Russia have a funny way of violently dying or being poisoned in a gruesome way for example Viktor Yuschenko who was poisoned with dioxin.
3) You can't buy polonium 210 at the store or the internet. A state with advanced reactor technology is needed.
4) Trace amounts, just happened to be found at the suspects apartment.
Putin and the Russian state wanted to make an "example" of Litvinenko so that others would think twice about betraying Russia. They wanted it to be a slow, lingering and graphic death, and were willing to except any blow-back from Britain, which really hasn't amounted too much, so in their eyes it was a win.
1) Litvinenko was a sworn enemy of Putin and the F.S.B and was considered a traitor.
2) Enemies of Putin and Russia have a funny way of violently dying or being poisoned in a gruesome way for example Viktor Yuschenko who was poisoned with dioxin.
3) You can't buy polonium 210 at the store or the internet. A state with advanced reactor technology is needed.
4) Trace amounts, just happened to be found at the suspects apartment.
Putin and the Russian state wanted to make an "example" of Litvinenko so that others would think twice about betraying Russia. They wanted it to be a slow, lingering and graphic death, and were willing to except any blow-back from Britain, which really hasn't amounted too much, so in their eyes it was a win.
2
Is this really a surprise? Former lieutenant colonel KGB. It always makes me wonder what Dubya meant when he said he "looked into Putin's eyes and saw his soul."
9
They were both evangelicals.
1
Mr. Trump extolled Mr. Putin as a politician who gets things done. More than likely, this is the only things Mr. Trump has said that isn't a prevarication.
9
Ho-hum... Nothing new to read here. Let's see, you take a high ranking KGB official and "elect" him to lead your country. He has been brainwashed his whole life in KGB ideology and practices. It's part of his DNA. Now why would anyone expect him to behave contrary to who he is? Puhleeze...
6
What a revelation, a revelation known to all and sundry. But to what purpose?
Litivenko s dead and Czar Putin is smugly, sitting in Russia complacent of his invincibility. Putin knows British Justice is totally toothless because there maybe charges against him but who will bell the cat?
Litivenko s dead and Czar Putin is smugly, sitting in Russia complacent of his invincibility. Putin knows British Justice is totally toothless because there maybe charges against him but who will bell the cat?
3
"Probably" why don't the UK say it's a fact ?? .The centuries old Great game...goes on .
3
Mr Cutler: They have no evidence that can stand up in a court of law, by Owen's own admission.
4
We should ask former President Bush for the definitive verdict on Putin's guilt or innocence. After all, he said "I looked the man in his eye...[and] I could see his soul." So surely he has the answer.
2
I think we already knew this.
9
Correction: it should be "I think we already heard this".
1
I'm sure even if it was certain that Putin was behind this man's murder, as well as being behind the downing of the Malaysian airliner over Ukraine, (which killed how many innocents?) The West would do nothing, because we don't want conflict with such a powerful bully.
But, like all bullies, he'll carry on until we just can't take it any more, and we fight back, far too late for everyone, and it all ends far worse than it need have done had we acted decisively, and now.
The really sad thing is there's not a world leader who could deal with Putin. There is no Churchill, for sure; and there won't be in the near future.
My bet is Putin has a few more tricks up his sleeve that taking Ukraine. And it'll happen when we all have our pants down.
But, like all bullies, he'll carry on until we just can't take it any more, and we fight back, far too late for everyone, and it all ends far worse than it need have done had we acted decisively, and now.
The really sad thing is there's not a world leader who could deal with Putin. There is no Churchill, for sure; and there won't be in the near future.
My bet is Putin has a few more tricks up his sleeve that taking Ukraine. And it'll happen when we all have our pants down.
4
You need to go look at a map, see the tiny sliver of ethnic Russian area that the Russians have been honorably aiding against fascists in Kiev, and revise you notions about "taking Ukraine." Sometimes a bully is real and sometimes a construct in the paranoid mind.
7
So you're probably suggesting Russia wasn't behind the downing of the airliner? Is that right?
Nor was he behind this assassination? Is that what you're suggesting?
Putin is an egotist and a bully of the highest order. You and I both know that.
Nor was he behind this assassination? Is that what you're suggesting?
Putin is an egotist and a bully of the highest order. You and I both know that.
5
You people call Obama the same names, we agree on nothing/
This is hardly what I would consider an open and transparent report. The Judge admitted that the left out a lot of material which he deemed too secret for the public to know. Once you read that material was omitted it honestly makes you wonder about the quality and integrity of the rest of the report.
Because of the omission of "secret" material I am unwilling to accept the conclusion of this report. Here in the US we would not accept the conclusion of a report from which certain detail were deemed too secret to publish.
Because of the omission of "secret" material I am unwilling to accept the conclusion of this report. Here in the US we would not accept the conclusion of a report from which certain detail were deemed too secret to publish.
8
No, of course not. Why would Putin want to murder his political enemies on bridges near the Kremlin or in distant London. Why indeed? I am sure that the Russian report on Litvenko's death is so much more transparent.
9
We wouldn't accept any report from our government which withheld secret material as bring open and transparent, why should we accept one from the UK>
It seems we accept because we like the conclusion - that is hardly a rational reason to accept something which is not open and transparent.
It seems we accept because we like the conclusion - that is hardly a rational reason to accept something which is not open and transparent.
1
This is pretty hyped. While Putin is certainly capable of approving the attack and probably did, the report offers not a shred of evidence and the NY Times should know better than play it up on page 1.
8
Trump and the GOP are not the only ones who know how to work a crowd.
3
No evidence? A trail of radioactive material that could have only come from a government-protected site, in places where these men were, is pretty compelling.
5
Is anybody surprised or shocked? I think everyone knows that Putin's an intelligent thug who does what he thinks is necessary to achieve his goals.
He's like many world leaders in that respect - but with Putin, it seems to be more personal. We kill with drones and don't look our victims in the eye or think about them as individuals. We call it collateral damage in a failed attempt to take the stink away.
With Putin, I can envision him fondling a picture of his intended victim, closely examining it, and then laughing as he considers the suffering of his soon-to-be-victim. It's a difference of style more than substance.
He's like many world leaders in that respect - but with Putin, it seems to be more personal. We kill with drones and don't look our victims in the eye or think about them as individuals. We call it collateral damage in a failed attempt to take the stink away.
With Putin, I can envision him fondling a picture of his intended victim, closely examining it, and then laughing as he considers the suffering of his soon-to-be-victim. It's a difference of style more than substance.
3
I am not going to defend Putin, a former KGB, but the British judge verdict
does not make sense in the least and is a joke.
He claims that the two murderers left a Polonion trail wherever they went all the way from Moscow to London with a stop in Germany that years after the fact it still could be found in airplanes, hotels, toilets, and even the Arsenal Stadium where they went to watch a football match, etc...
How is it then that both carriers of this poisonous material are in good health when they should have died if not at the same time shortly after Litvinenko died?
does not make sense in the least and is a joke.
He claims that the two murderers left a Polonion trail wherever they went all the way from Moscow to London with a stop in Germany that years after the fact it still could be found in airplanes, hotels, toilets, and even the Arsenal Stadium where they went to watch a football match, etc...
How is it then that both carriers of this poisonous material are in good health when they should have died if not at the same time shortly after Litvinenko died?
10
My understanding is that you have to ingest it for it to be deadly....thus the tea
6
Dear Leon,
Please do some mild, wikipedia research on "radioactivity", "half-life", "polonium", and "radiation poisoning". It will demonstrate in a few short minutes that your comment here is entirely uninformed.
Please do some mild, wikipedia research on "radioactivity", "half-life", "polonium", and "radiation poisoning". It will demonstrate in a few short minutes that your comment here is entirely uninformed.
7
Who needs to be educated on the subject? If it left contamination even in an open stadium the carriers had to become contaminated by exposure. The pics does not show the agents wearing loves.
The main hazard is its intense radioactivity (as an alpha emitter), which makes it very difficult to handle safely. Even in microgram amounts, handling 210Po is extremely dangerous, requiring specialized equipment (a negative pressure alpha glove box equipped with high performance filters), adequate monitoring, and strict handling procedures to avoid any contamination. Alpha particles emitted by polonium will damage organic tissue easily if polonium is ingested, inhaled, or absorbed, although they do not penetrate the epidermis and hence are not hazardous as long as the alpha particles remain outside the body. Wearing chemically resistant and "intact" gloves is a mandatory precaution to avoid transcutaneous diffusion of polonium directly through the skin. Polonium delivered in concentrated nitric acid can easily diffuse through inadequate gloves (e.g., latex gloves) or the acid may damage the gloves.[67]
It has been reported that some microbes can methylate
The main hazard is its intense radioactivity (as an alpha emitter), which makes it very difficult to handle safely. Even in microgram amounts, handling 210Po is extremely dangerous, requiring specialized equipment (a negative pressure alpha glove box equipped with high performance filters), adequate monitoring, and strict handling procedures to avoid any contamination. Alpha particles emitted by polonium will damage organic tissue easily if polonium is ingested, inhaled, or absorbed, although they do not penetrate the epidermis and hence are not hazardous as long as the alpha particles remain outside the body. Wearing chemically resistant and "intact" gloves is a mandatory precaution to avoid transcutaneous diffusion of polonium directly through the skin. Polonium delivered in concentrated nitric acid can easily diffuse through inadequate gloves (e.g., latex gloves) or the acid may damage the gloves.[67]
It has been reported that some microbes can methylate
1
Of course he did. And what will anyone do about it? The Brits will huff and puff and take some symbolic actions. Putin has already annexed Crimea, seized a good chunk of Ukraine, and is steadily expanding his foothold in Syria. The West, led (or rather, led from behind) by the US, has done nothing. The Times may wax indignant, but Putin will not lose sleep over this finding.
6
Much ado about nothing. It's a dangerous business and everyone in it knows the price.
5
Obama would have just killed him with a DRONE but would have made sure to get his highschool aged kids while he was at it.
Putin goes for the James Bond approach rather than Hellfire Missiles and Goon Squads.
Putin goes for the James Bond approach rather than Hellfire Missiles and Goon Squads.
7
Flash! Putin implicated is 2002 assassination of rogue KGB agent!
In other astonishing news: Water is Wet! (except in Flint)
And President Grant is buried in Grant's Tomb!
Plus, for you Republicans out there: It's all Obama's fault!
In other astonishing news: Water is Wet! (except in Flint)
And President Grant is buried in Grant's Tomb!
Plus, for you Republicans out there: It's all Obama's fault!
10
And Trump, our Republican forerunner loves Putin. Now this seems like a real conspiracy to me.
6
The USA is getting SO BAD, even Championship Boxer, Roy Brown, Jr., knew it was time to exit the evil and move to Russia.
1
Now that a UK court has officially stated what everyone already knew, could we please ask them to look into the traffic tie up on the GW bridge?
7
Dear Americans, you know you can acknowledge that Putin is a pseudo-dictator who maintains power through old school KGB tactics. It doesn't mean you need to condone the malfeasance of your own government, or feel less important because your country is not the sole and only "evil empire."
1
I think British report also found WMDs in Iraq. So whats new?
17
"Probably Approved" means Putin is innocent just like Tom Brady "Probably Knew " about ball deflation means that Tom is innocent.
Of course he approved it! Of course Brady knew!
they're both Guilty! (but somehow, Tom Brady is worse....Go Jets!)
Of course he approved it! Of course Brady knew!
they're both Guilty! (but somehow, Tom Brady is worse....Go Jets!)
10
What a coincidence, Jerome. All my friends who are Jet fans think that. No bias there, right? I'd say something cruel now, like - take a look at the history of penalties in the NFL for rule infractions; the Jets are somewhere near the worst, the Pats in the middle of the pack. But, I like the Jets too, particularly Fitzpatrick. So, good luck next year. As long as Brady is playing, you will need a lot of it.
Russia has been a country ruled by its secret police and security services since the days of the Oprichnina under Ivan the Terrible. After 1991, the country had a brief chance to find a way toward a different kind of future, but with Putin's election, Russians threw it all away for at least another couple of generations.
10
Actually the real ancient oligarchs of Russia, like all those of Europe and most of the Western Hemisphere were the religious tyrants. The various Eastern and Western Popes, Imams, and other who get their marching orders from on High.
2
Speaking of murder…Jeremy Scahill's intro at The Intercept writes: "The Drone Papers - From his first days as commander in chief, the drone has been President Barack Obama’s weapon of choice, used by the military and the CIA to hunt down and kill the people his administration has deemed — through secretive processes, without indictment or trial — worthy of execution. There has been intense focus on the technology of remote killing, but that often serves as a surrogate for what should be a broader examination of the state’s power over life and death."
One can go to the site - https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/ - and read the scathing review of what we are up to around the world. So when readers get up on their high moral horse, I caution them to review this article and digest quietly what our Nobel Peace Prize-Winning President is up to. And then consider…The Hillary Brand® is also a great proponent of using drones as an assassination tool.
Scahill writes: " Drones are a tool - not a policy. The policy is assassination. While every president since Gerald Ford has upheld an executive order banning assassinations by U.S. personnel, Congress has avoided legislating the issue or even defining the word “assassination.” This has allowed proponents of the drone wars to rebrand assassinations with more palatable characterizations, such as the term du jour, “targeted killings.”
Looks like Litvinenko was a "targeted killing" - the question remains who made it happen.
One can go to the site - https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/ - and read the scathing review of what we are up to around the world. So when readers get up on their high moral horse, I caution them to review this article and digest quietly what our Nobel Peace Prize-Winning President is up to. And then consider…The Hillary Brand® is also a great proponent of using drones as an assassination tool.
Scahill writes: " Drones are a tool - not a policy. The policy is assassination. While every president since Gerald Ford has upheld an executive order banning assassinations by U.S. personnel, Congress has avoided legislating the issue or even defining the word “assassination.” This has allowed proponents of the drone wars to rebrand assassinations with more palatable characterizations, such as the term du jour, “targeted killings.”
Looks like Litvinenko was a "targeted killing" - the question remains who made it happen.
13
January 21, 2016
Let’s reflect on this tragic spy saga in terms of the James Sanbron and his scuptures at the George Bush Center for intelligence grounds and his encoded copper screen CIA’s Kryptos work. Interesting to determine the art work as the FSb in Moscow.
To quote James Sanborn
“When I accepted the commission, I had something of an epiphany in the research I did about the agency, actually the science of espionage. I realized there is a connection between the sciences and the invisible forces of man.”
Jja Manhattan N.Y.
A Non-commission free citizen its own artistry everywhere.
Let’s reflect on this tragic spy saga in terms of the James Sanbron and his scuptures at the George Bush Center for intelligence grounds and his encoded copper screen CIA’s Kryptos work. Interesting to determine the art work as the FSb in Moscow.
To quote James Sanborn
“When I accepted the commission, I had something of an epiphany in the research I did about the agency, actually the science of espionage. I realized there is a connection between the sciences and the invisible forces of man.”
Jja Manhattan N.Y.
A Non-commission free citizen its own artistry everywhere.
1
Get back to me when he invades the wrong country costing Russian $3,000,000,000,000.00 and his brother runs for high office.
48
Poisoning a human with their drink is so crude and barbaric- almost medieval. Makes one gag to think that such phenomenon still take place. Here in America we are much more advanced and thankfully never encounter such backward phenomenon. (Unless it's on a mass scale by poisoning a whole city's drinking water. That's much more advanced.)
3
A common fallacy is to exonerate one crime by pointing at another, supposedly more severe one. In this case the similarity lies solely in the method, i.e. poison. What happened in Michigan might be criminal negligence (I think it is), but it was not a deliberate murder committed on the order of the head of the state.
3
Putin, the guy right-wingers think our leaders should emulate?
2
Any minute now I expect someone will defend Putin by pointing out that we basically did the same thing to Flint, Michigan. I'd like to forestall that defense by stressing that it was negligence, and that Flint was not being punished for the documentary "Roger and Me".
6
And there are calls for the governor of Michigan to resign over the Flint debacle. Anybody in Russia calling for Putin's resignation? They're not at all the same situation. But yes, commenters here are making that analogy.
2
Obviously different situations.
We have the power to make the governor of Michigan resign, if that is deemed appropriate. We have no power of appropriate size to make Putin resign, just as we had no power of appropriate size to make Saddam Hussein resign. In Iraq, as in Libya, Egypt and some day in Syria, the cure is worse than the disease.
We have the power to make the governor of Michigan resign, if that is deemed appropriate. We have no power of appropriate size to make Putin resign, just as we had no power of appropriate size to make Saddam Hussein resign. In Iraq, as in Libya, Egypt and some day in Syria, the cure is worse than the disease.
2
While I don't believe that anyone wanted to kill anyone in Flint, who says that Republican treatment of residents was not revenge?
2
Hmmmm, Putin may have killed a spy, meanwhile, Obama admits to murdering his own citizens. No big deal.
7
What are you talking about? Do you even know?
4
Silly comment.
4
Blue, Look I get it, it is distasteful to associate evils done by our guy with the same evil done by the other guy. The point is that our good guy (no matter who it really is) is really just like their bad guy. So, if we want us to be any better then we must make our guy step up and actually be better than their guy. No matter what, our guy is always doing something unsavory, it is a necessity in the business of treachery and global chaos. That is a given. We just must push our guy to be better. That man could be Obama, Bush1&2&(3?),Clinton 1&(2?), Reagan, (Not Trump please), or Sanders. In this instance it seems Putin probably did something he felt was the best thing to do, we can grant Obama the same grace, just be well aware that any sitting President at any time is up to similar shenanigans.
2
I honestly don't understand why Russia bothers to deny this. The only reason to use Polonium, an extremely dangerous element only available to a few major nuclear powers in the world was to loudly and proudly declare that Russia is not an empire to be messed with.
I suppose it could also have been the CIA, but, Russia is not even bothering to claim that it was the CIA. They are proud of assassinating Litvinenko, and the only reason to give some kind of half-hearted denial is so that foreign powers can have some plausible capacity to claim that doing business with Russia is not also abetting a criminal organization.
I have no idea whether Litvenenko was a good man or not, but no one deserves to be killed like a dog by Putin, a kleptocrat with impunity.
I suppose it could also have been the CIA, but, Russia is not even bothering to claim that it was the CIA. They are proud of assassinating Litvinenko, and the only reason to give some kind of half-hearted denial is so that foreign powers can have some plausible capacity to claim that doing business with Russia is not also abetting a criminal organization.
I have no idea whether Litvenenko was a good man or not, but no one deserves to be killed like a dog by Putin, a kleptocrat with impunity.
106
It's interesting that the only comments the Times is "picking" are those that show an obvious bias against Putin and a penchant for making unsubstantiated accusations against him. Seems like naked, unabashed propaganda to me.
So is failing to give obvious propaganda the same treatment as obvious truth a form of bias? The Times can often be accused of Broderism, but, I am glad that they draw the line somewhere.
3
" The only reason to use Polonium, an extremely dangerous element only available to a few major nuclear powers in the world was to loudly and proudly declare that Russia is not an empire to be messed with."
Not true.
Polonium is the most common alpha source there is, and is commonly used in textile mills to neutralize static. A textile mill in, say, India would have dozens of such units, each of which has enough polonium to kill an adult.
Smuggling polonium into a country is simple, since its emissions can be stopped by a sheet of paper. Don't take my word for it. Here's Professor William Happer of Princeton (1m:20s into the broadcast) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUr9sJ7pz3w
Not true.
Polonium is the most common alpha source there is, and is commonly used in textile mills to neutralize static. A textile mill in, say, India would have dozens of such units, each of which has enough polonium to kill an adult.
Smuggling polonium into a country is simple, since its emissions can be stopped by a sheet of paper. Don't take my word for it. Here's Professor William Happer of Princeton (1m:20s into the broadcast) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUr9sJ7pz3w
It seemed obvious to most that Putin's regime ordered the hit, but conjecture and proof are not the same. Ten years, thousands of man-hours, and a lot of tax dollars later there is still no proof. Pathetic. But acting on this non-proof would lower Britain to the level of states whose legal systems are viewed as corrupt kangaroo courts. Better to grieve for Litvinenko and move on to other battles.
4
We all knew this though evidence and official finger-pointing is always a good thing. Putin is a monster, a bloody inhumane KGB killing monster. Goodness, what a powerful photograph of Litvinenko.
9
Back around the time of Litvinenko's murder, an expert on Russian organized crime from the London School of Economics wrote an article for the Independent that explained the kinds of oligarch dirty dealings Litvinenko had become mixed up in. This was not a dissident of the old school that we used to defend in Moscow. Back then political dissidence was free of financial corruption. Billions of dollars were not at stake. Litvinenko was a man trained for espionage who'd become involved in many dirty dealings in Russia and in London and it's not at all surprising that he reached such a tragic and violent end.
2
Somehow, this sounds like a pathetic attempt at justifying what happened to Litvinenko by the company he supposedly kept. Regardless, the reckless way he was dispatched in a foreign country while potentially endangering numerous Londoners with polonium, shows it could only have been done by a foreign power (Russia) with the means and motives to accomplish this. I would think the British feel the same way and hopefully will respond accordingly.
2
What I'm trying to say, Jake, it that it's Chinatown. We'll never really get to the bottom of this because the ties between these people are so murky and multi-layered and infested with big money.
1
10 years later British inquiry can only state that the president of Russia Putin "probably approved" poisoning of Litvinenko. Does the West want to add more poison to the relationship with Russia by maligning Putin and creating more conflicts? It was bad enough that the West meddled with Syria,a country within the Russian sphere of influence with epic miserable migration and disastrous consequences and destruction of one of the cradles of civilization. The deaths in the French clinical trials need to be investigated and hopefully conclusive evidence not speculation will be presented as to who is responsible.
6
I can almost hear the James Bond intro music as I read this. Astonishing what the little weasel from Moscow gets away with.
8
Ten years to get to "probably"?
13
The New York Times doesn't even allude to the salacious (but very relevant) material in the report, but you can read it for yourself on page 93. Litvinenko was going around saying (and writing) that Putin was a pedophile. The photo that Litvinenko describes is available on line, and it is pretty creepy.
2
I have always hoped that those involved directly with this improperly handled the material and would themselves suffer drastic health effects. Since I knew there would be no justice otherwise.
We should remember that on his deathbed, Mr. Litvinenko said Putin is a pedophile.
4
Before everyone gets to excited about this it is worth remembering that Litvinenko was a turncoat spy. Such are often dealt with in this manner.
2
so is Snowden. Can you imagine, say, a NYT article linking an American president to a covert poisoning, while the said president continues to enjoy blithely his time in the office?
2
Maybe. But not in a foreign country while potentially contaminating who knows how many with polonium. This is recklessness on a massive scale that could only have been accomplished from a country that spawned a Stalin.
3
Perhaps the US would have been well served by assassinating Snowden before he defected to Russia. But that is not the way we do things. The Russians, however, do things differently. One can certainly debate which is ultimately correct.
2
It didn't take long for the Putinbots to come out of the woodwork. Face it, guys, he's guilty as sin.
9
What else is new??
Russia has been called a Mafia State, and for a good reason. Mr. Obama has been most kind when he described Putin only as "the bored kid in the back of a classroom." I'm sure there are more apt words to describe him.
Sadly, there are not many things we can do about the whole thing, Russia is in the doghouse already.
Russia has been called a Mafia State, and for a good reason. Mr. Obama has been most kind when he described Putin only as "the bored kid in the back of a classroom." I'm sure there are more apt words to describe him.
Sadly, there are not many things we can do about the whole thing, Russia is in the doghouse already.
7
The only thing surprising about this is that some people think we should be surprised.
Why are we so willing to dance around the truth? Anyone with half a brain knew the instant this story broke that Putin was responsible. No inquiry for 9 years? And now a delicately worded result designed not to offend Putin because Britain needs him for other purposes.
The man ordered a hit on a turned spy living outside the country--and the hit succeeded. In the process, he showed his potential enemies that his reach is long. It's still a cold, cold war in Russia...
Why are we so willing to dance around the truth? Anyone with half a brain knew the instant this story broke that Putin was responsible. No inquiry for 9 years? And now a delicately worded result designed not to offend Putin because Britain needs him for other purposes.
The man ordered a hit on a turned spy living outside the country--and the hit succeeded. In the process, he showed his potential enemies that his reach is long. It's still a cold, cold war in Russia...
10
It has not succeeded since it was discovered and in the process, who knows how many people have been contaminated by the reckless use of radioactive polonium?
It does not matter that it was discovered if Britain does nothing about it. The desired party is dead, and you can bet anyone in a similar situation has thought twice (or 100 times) about going against Putin. Mission accomplished.
As for the collateral damage of others being contaminated, I can assure you that Putin could not care less.
As for the collateral damage of others being contaminated, I can assure you that Putin could not care less.
There are certainly a plethora of Putin-like characters in this country. Putin "probably approved" the poisoning of one man in a case that captured the world's attention because it seemed like a plot for a fantastic spy novel.
State officials in Michigan tacitly approved the lead poisoning of an entire American city and later scoffed at citizen concerns.
Which is worse? Or are both equally evil? Or do you still think Putin's crimes are worse because he is Russian?
State officials in Michigan tacitly approved the lead poisoning of an entire American city and later scoffed at citizen concerns.
Which is worse? Or are both equally evil? Or do you still think Putin's crimes are worse because he is Russian?
149
I appreciate your point, but at least the state officials in Michigan were not the leader of the country, as Putin is in his. If the buck stops at a murderer's house, that seems even worse, in comparison.
4
There is no comparison; people of Michigan had a right to expect safety (in the form of clean water at the least) from their entrusted governing bureaucracies; spies and double agents with or against the KGB have no such right --- in fact can expect such consequences.
@mspweho: It ought to be obvious that the two situations are entirely dissimilar. For one thing, no one in his right mind is accusing Michigan officials of intentionally trying to kill people. The Flint situation is a tragedy on its own and is appropriately getting lots of media coverage, and I don't see why you'd try to compare two very different events.
5
Can't prove it - turn on propaganda.
UK and London is a well known safe haven for all kind of criminal tycoons of the 3dr world. They buy citizenship, bring stolen capitals, children and families.
As far as I can judge it is the Mr. Berezovsky that gained the most from Mr. Litvinenko's death. And taking into account his power obtaining polonium has not been an impossible task for him.
P.S.
And here is the way how to separate the propaganda from the unbiased journalism. Just check if this phrase exists in the paper:
"...the F.S.B., the domestic successor to the K.G.B..."
UK and London is a well known safe haven for all kind of criminal tycoons of the 3dr world. They buy citizenship, bring stolen capitals, children and families.
As far as I can judge it is the Mr. Berezovsky that gained the most from Mr. Litvinenko's death. And taking into account his power obtaining polonium has not been an impossible task for him.
P.S.
And here is the way how to separate the propaganda from the unbiased journalism. Just check if this phrase exists in the paper:
"...the F.S.B., the domestic successor to the K.G.B..."
22
No one has proved it, Russian friend. The British have simply said that it is quite probable that Russian intelligence carried out the poisoning, and with Putin's final consent. The story is carried by every newspaper in the West this morning, and most all Western officials believe Litvinenko's unnatural death has all the usual Kremlin style points.
5
Dear Alex,
This story mentioned a polonium trail which when followed (almost like Hansel and Gretel following the bread crumbs) led to Mssrs Lugovoi and Kovtun. The only reason I really thought Mr P had anything to do with it, was the medal he gave to the man with polonium on his shoes.
This story mentioned a polonium trail which when followed (almost like Hansel and Gretel following the bread crumbs) led to Mssrs Lugovoi and Kovtun. The only reason I really thought Mr P had anything to do with it, was the medal he gave to the man with polonium on his shoes.
7
How else would Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitri Kuvtun obtain polonium 210 — a rare and highly toxic isotope - without the highest level of political support? A private individual can't possibly access this stuff. Putin has annexed regions of Georgia and Ukraine. He has annexed the Crimea. He's criminalised Russian communities. He's complicit in the attacks on any democratic opposition such as Gary Kasparov. The reporting of these events is not 'Putin-bashing'. These are all independently verified facts. Judge Owen has chosen his words carefully in his 328 page report. And since the isotope has been traced to these two individuals, why isn't Putin making his own enquiries of these two? He doesn't need to. He knows the answers.
10
And furthermore! I'm in a bit of a cold fury as I write this, my apologies, but if I may, I'd like to direct a few questions to Vladimir Putin himself. I don't expect any answer.
1) Are you aware of the difficulty in tracking radiation exposure? It's easy enough if you have an X-ray badge on file, checked frequently, as I used to sport on my lapel while working at a particle accelerator (really). [Answer: it's incredibly difficult to track precisely if not from a direct and extreme source.]
2) Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention's protocols on nuclear (and radiological) weapons?
3) Do you understand the English idioms, "to open a can of worms", and "what goes around comes around"? (There are probably Russian equivalents and your command of English is exceptional.)
4) Did you see the size of that hat on the guy that saluted you in the photo of you in this article?
5) Do you know what was in that hat?
I'd really just like this series of questions to get passed along to Vlad, I don't expect any response but I believe he should think about them. And to forestall any potential retribution, I'd just like to note that my X-ray badge is on file.
1) Are you aware of the difficulty in tracking radiation exposure? It's easy enough if you have an X-ray badge on file, checked frequently, as I used to sport on my lapel while working at a particle accelerator (really). [Answer: it's incredibly difficult to track precisely if not from a direct and extreme source.]
2) Are you familiar with the Geneva Convention's protocols on nuclear (and radiological) weapons?
3) Do you understand the English idioms, "to open a can of worms", and "what goes around comes around"? (There are probably Russian equivalents and your command of English is exceptional.)
4) Did you see the size of that hat on the guy that saluted you in the photo of you in this article?
5) Do you know what was in that hat?
I'd really just like this series of questions to get passed along to Vlad, I don't expect any response but I believe he should think about them. And to forestall any potential retribution, I'd just like to note that my X-ray badge is on file.
4
New York Times readers, are we prepared again to receive a swarm of Putin Deniers....again? Straight from the Kremlin, complete with their bad English?
You know for sure they'll be here.
This is for the true fans of Bugs Bunny and all his other Warner Brothers buddies. Vladimir Putin is "Chicken Hawk" nemesis to "Foghorn Leghorn." Tell me Vladimir doesn't strut the same as Chicken Hawk!
You know for sure they'll be here.
This is for the true fans of Bugs Bunny and all his other Warner Brothers buddies. Vladimir Putin is "Chicken Hawk" nemesis to "Foghorn Leghorn." Tell me Vladimir doesn't strut the same as Chicken Hawk!
8
What incompetence! At least our assassins have the good sense not to get caught.
3
Actually that's far from true. There are many documented cases of CIA's bungled efforts to assassinate, for example, Fidel Castro. And more recently, 26 agents of the US Government were indicted by Italy for their role in kidnapping and 'rendering' to Egypt. Had they not been 'incompetent', they too would not have been caught, exposed and indicted. None of them can travel to Europe. One of these agents recently did, and was arrested in Portugal.
2
But you only hear about our agents' failures when they fail to do their jobs properly. Their successful kills are never reported (at least in the press).
Didn't we all know this 10 years ago? Why is this news?
6
It took the Brits years to do the inquiry and it only started after the 2014 Ukraine invasion by Russia. If Russia had stayed out of the Ukraine, no inquiry. By the way, there is a lot of Russian money invested in Britain.
4
It is irresponsible for the British to publicize these allegations impuning an important foreign head of state without solid evidence, which the British admit that they do not have. If you are going to make allegations of this sort you need more than conjecture.
43
Putin refused to extradite the suspects. Hence he is involved in the crime, not to mention Putin is a product of KGB.
1
"Judge Owen did not provide any direct evidence linking Mr. Putin or any other high-level Russian officials to the killing"
More Putin-bashing, I am afraid. Who knows what the true details are behind this case.
Almost certainly the commentary hereto will be filled with even more Putin-bashing, of course, based on no evidence whatsoever, but that never plays a role in what people write.
More Putin-bashing, I am afraid. Who knows what the true details are behind this case.
Almost certainly the commentary hereto will be filled with even more Putin-bashing, of course, based on no evidence whatsoever, but that never plays a role in what people write.
24
How else would Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitri Kuvtun obtain polonium 210 — a rare and highly toxic isotope - without the highest level of political support? A private individual can't possibly access this stuff. Putin has annexed regions of Georgia and Ukraine. He has annexed the Crimea. He's criminalised Russian communities. He's complicit in the attacks on any democratic opposition such as Gary Kasparov. The reporting of these events is not 'Putin-bashing'. These are all independently verified facts. Judge Owen has chosen his words carefully in his 328 page report. And since the isotope has been traced to these two individuals, why isn't Putin making his own enquiries of these two? He doesn't need to. He knows the answers.
7
You cannot buy Polonium in RadioShack. Anyone claiming Putin isn't involved in this assassination is a naive person.
That photo of Mr. Litvinenko continues to haunt me. It's one of those pictures you don't forget.
53
f.s. - Thanks for this post. It's a reminder to consider the man that died at least as much as the guy who might have killed him.
2
Also since the subject has been raised, and it seems important, just what exactly does Donald J. Trump think about this report?
5
A very pertinent question, indeed! Since the leading Republican candidate has expressed significant support and even admiration for Putin, what's his take on this report? Has he even read the report? I would think that anyone who aspires to the Oval Office should make the time to read and analyze such reports, and the information upon which they're based.
The fact that Mr. Litvinenko was publicly accusing Mr. Putin of pedophilia, and proposing supporting evidence, is a very credible motive for Mr. Putin to make an example of the man by horribly poisoning him. It all makes such perfect sense now.
And what of Mr. Putin's now-infamous and notorious belly-kiss on young Nikita, in plain daylight, in Red Square? I think The Times needs to pursue this lead, and report on each and every presidential candidate's position, informed or otherwise, on Mr. Putin.
The fact that Mr. Litvinenko was publicly accusing Mr. Putin of pedophilia, and proposing supporting evidence, is a very credible motive for Mr. Putin to make an example of the man by horribly poisoning him. It all makes such perfect sense now.
And what of Mr. Putin's now-infamous and notorious belly-kiss on young Nikita, in plain daylight, in Red Square? I think The Times needs to pursue this lead, and report on each and every presidential candidate's position, informed or otherwise, on Mr. Putin.
2
For more than a decade, the world has been witnessing with mixed feelings of horror and frustration what happens when someone in Russia dare criticize Mr. Putin's political, social and economic agenda for the Russian people : they are attacked and severely beaten, or else, framed up, sent to jail on fabricated accusations, disappear or are shot on the street. Today, it is confirmed what most people already knew : an opponent of Mr. Putin was poisoned by Russian agents acting on foreign soil this time, not in Russia. After their hard-to-find murderous deed, they fled London asap, unnoticed.
Besides a verbal protest from London, it is hard to believe sanctions of any kind against Mr. Putin's government will be implemented. Russian assistance is needed in the fight against ISIS and the Russian oligarchs' huge sums of money rusting in London banks' coffers can buy a lot of silence. Mr. Putin's government has been able to get away with a lot of violent aggressions from Georgia to Ukraine, and on the streets of Moscow. I doubt it will be any different this time just because it's taking place in London. We'll see, we'll see...
Besides a verbal protest from London, it is hard to believe sanctions of any kind against Mr. Putin's government will be implemented. Russian assistance is needed in the fight against ISIS and the Russian oligarchs' huge sums of money rusting in London banks' coffers can buy a lot of silence. Mr. Putin's government has been able to get away with a lot of violent aggressions from Georgia to Ukraine, and on the streets of Moscow. I doubt it will be any different this time just because it's taking place in London. We'll see, we'll see...
84
I guess we should feel sorry for a defector spy who instead of going quietly into the night decided to work actively for the "other side." Surprise, surprise - it didn't sit too well in Moskva...
He was a turncoat spy - not some academic intellectualizing about the evils of modern Russia - a spy.
He was a turncoat spy - not some academic intellectualizing about the evils of modern Russia - a spy.
3
I think the issue is a little different. For more than a decade we have been witnessing the frenzied efforts of certain countires is the West to demean, defame, contort, twist, malign, insinuate, impugn, etc. when they haven't been able to get their way with a country - Russia, in this case. May their efforts continue to fail as they have to date.
7
Irina: You speak the official line so dutifully. Just like in the old Soviet days. There is no "official" Western conspiracy to hurt Russia and its reputation in the world. Some day if Russians are lucky they will be ruled by politicians who are actually interested in democracy and not just unabashed self enrichment. In the West we see your government take over the mass media. We see the invasion of the Ukraine and the lies about the non-involvement of Russian troops. We see your country's support of Syria's murderous dictator. The list goes on and on. It is all reported in our free press. It is no conspiracy. It may even be the truth.
3
He's not banned from Britian but Martha Stewert and Donald Trump are. Go figure the Brits.
18
The Brits don't need anything that Martha and The Donald have to offer, do they.
In all fairness, you can't ban the head of government of a major nation, even if he is a thug.
1
@pepperman: I guess you were trying to be funny, but it's worth pointing out that Trump is not banned from Britain. All that happened this week was that Parliament debated the issue. I don't know about Martha Stewart, but I recommend you re-check wherever you get your information from to make sure.
2
Clearly paid Putin trolls roam these pages. You can usually spot these apologists for the Kremlin and Putin. They always seem to use the default argument of false equivalencies; Bush did this…or, Obama did that… therefore whatever the Kremlin and Putin do are equal and morally justifiable, or should not be criticized. In short, these apologist have no morals. Their only moral seems to be based on some kind of strange linkage that suggests if someone else in the world has done something wrong (no matter how hideous) then they should also be free to do whatever they please, and free from criticism. I think if you have morals you are then able to set standards for your actions, and not base their rightness or wrongness on whether or not someone else has done a similar action. This argument is the equivalent of the childish argument that goes something like this, “Mommy, Johnny took my ball so I took his bicycle”. If you have morals you are also able to criticize your leaders when they do wrong, and not hide the fact of the wrongdoing behind some kind of smoke and mirrors of false equivalencies.
10
And the names and locations are always ridiculous and the spelling is usually bad. Probably employees of RT News just keeping up their usual jobs of misinformation.
4
I think you are missing the point. Assuming there was any wrongdoing on the part of a sitting president - and although the report labors mightily, there is absolutely no proof of that - it is obvious that this is a politically motivated witch hunt. When leaders such as Bush, Blair, Obama and their ilk are personally called upon to asnwer for their admitted acts, any Russian leader proven guilty of the same should be up there, too. Instead, this is just defamation in the hope that an accusation - any accusation - sticks. Learn to recognize propaganda for what it is. Just to set you mind at ease, I am a US citizen living in Russia for the last 10 years.
5
You might want to ask yourself why you assume that anyone whose views differ from yours must be part of a conspiracy. You might not like the answer, but we've got to start somewhere in being honest with ourselves. Good luck.
3
So Putin ordered the assassination of one of his enemies. I'm shocked, totally shocked!
14
If the perpetrators were unaware, as the judge suggests, of "'precisely what the chemical that they were handling was, or the nature of all its properties,'" which became evident when Mr. Litvinenko presented looking like he was being administered chemotherapy, might one expect that Mr. Lugovoi and Mr. Kovtun will suffer future ill health effects from the handling of the isotope?
2
Just seeing the photo and the name "Litvinenko" brought all this back to me as if it was yesterday. Nearly a decade ago now, weird how distinctly I remember the whole story. As I recall, as soon as I heard he was poisoned with polonium in his tea, I figured Putin had ordered it. There is no cure for substantial radiation poisoning, and Mr. Litvinenko had been working on an honest biography of his time in the KGB/FSB/Putin's crowd.
So sorry if I didn't need this report to figure this out over nine years ago, but it's as clear as day that this is exactly what Putin did to neutralize a threat; nothing threatens a dictatorship more than the direct release of factual information about it.
Rest in peace Mr. Litvinenko, I hope your suffering was made easier by the benevolent hand of socialized medicine in a democratic nation.
And may karma come around for you, Vlad the Putin. As in, "vot vas Putin his tea, tovarische?", which may well be how you're remembered.
So sorry if I didn't need this report to figure this out over nine years ago, but it's as clear as day that this is exactly what Putin did to neutralize a threat; nothing threatens a dictatorship more than the direct release of factual information about it.
Rest in peace Mr. Litvinenko, I hope your suffering was made easier by the benevolent hand of socialized medicine in a democratic nation.
And may karma come around for you, Vlad the Putin. As in, "vot vas Putin his tea, tovarische?", which may well be how you're remembered.
7
We find this surprising?
9
Putin is a cold calculating thug with a strong inferiority complex who is always looking over his shoulder to see if anyone is laughing at him or going to put a bullet in him.
16
No surprise here. Trump's good buddy Putin is a murderously ruthless and power-mad despot who has destroyed any pretense of democratic progress in Russia.
29
Trump respects Putin for being tough and a strong leader of his nation. That is a long, long way from being his "good buddy". The lengths at which liberals will go to demonize Trump for telling the plain truth are amazing. I'd rather have Trump negotiating with Putin than the weak kneed Obama, who capitulated to Iran.
2
Trumps Buddy? Come on. That is media hype. When Hillery says let's reset with Russia and we can work with him, it's considered a foreign policy statement of genius quality. Trump makes one off the cuff remark and he is the second coming of Hitler?
2
You're worried about Trump being demonized but not about the entire groups of people that he himself has demonized? And you're not worried about how easily Putin used simple flattery to manipulate the ignorant and vain Trump? Or by Trump's apologies for Putin's monstrousness?
Is there nothing Trump can do or say that won't be brushed off his supporters?
Is there nothing Trump can do or say that won't be brushed off his supporters?
1
And this is the macho leader that Trump admires,
whose admiration he sees as a compliment.
whose admiration he sees as a compliment.
100
How about a British inquiry into Ian Smith when he declared unilateral independence in Southern Rhodesia? It seems to be all but forgotten to the Brits who miserably failed to invade this country what hypocrites.
1
I'm not convinced Putin won't push the nuclear button on his deathbed just to spite us. Seriously. May he live a long life ! (or perish suddenly...)
7
We are so much more civil: we do it with drones, Seals, and...
6
"We are so much more civil: we do it with drones, Seals, and..." currency devaluations and crashing the economies of countries who won't do our bidding.
But we do it with our pinkie pointing out when we drink our tea…we/re so civilized, don't you know?
But we do it with our pinkie pointing out when we drink our tea…we/re so civilized, don't you know?
2
whats the surprise here, Does the CIA treat its traiter spies differently? What about extraordinary renditions.
1
Dear Barbarika,
As far as I know, yes, the CIA doesn't execute rogue agents or defectors by means of radiation poisoning.
As far as I know, yes, the CIA doesn't execute rogue agents or defectors by means of radiation poisoning.
1
Yup, they drone attack US citizens without judicial permission.
2
Dear Barbarika,
Well if you mean the CIA attacks people like Anwar al whatsis. US citizen turned terrorist al qaeda recruiter, then, no offense intended, they do indeed execute such people without judicial permission. But they don't need any, because in a state of war there has never been judicial permission to attack wartime enemies. And these targets are not ex-CIA defectors. And, naturally, more power to them, may their aim be true.
Well if you mean the CIA attacks people like Anwar al whatsis. US citizen turned terrorist al qaeda recruiter, then, no offense intended, they do indeed execute such people without judicial permission. But they don't need any, because in a state of war there has never been judicial permission to attack wartime enemies. And these targets are not ex-CIA defectors. And, naturally, more power to them, may their aim be true.
2
I seem to remember the US Govt's involvement in attempts to take out Fidel Castro. Wonder how high up the chain of command this went or was it just Bobby?
Putin is a thug and will do whatever it takes to get his way - no surprise here. He joins a long list of people like that, Hitler and Stalin to name a couple.
If the Russians run out of money, I wonder what he will do to boost his support with the Russian people - start a small war maybe?
Putin is a thug and will do whatever it takes to get his way - no surprise here. He joins a long list of people like that, Hitler and Stalin to name a couple.
If the Russians run out of money, I wonder what he will do to boost his support with the Russian people - start a small war maybe?
3
I'm not at all surprised, but doubt the news will have any real impact. Putin holds all power in Russia and can't be punished for his crimes. At least he's suffering the effect of low oil prices, which prove to the Russian people that any growth Putin took credit for was simply fueled by a global commodity market boom, not any skills of Putin's.
6
So Trump's favorite hero Putin, strong and fearless, is suspected of murdering a journalist!
No surprise here!
I wonder if the media will bother to explore this "bromance" or just keep quiet and acquiesce to the buffoon and the bottom feeders he has surrounded himself with!
No surprise here!
I wonder if the media will bother to explore this "bromance" or just keep quiet and acquiesce to the buffoon and the bottom feeders he has surrounded himself with!
2
Nonsense.
Quit stirring up the cold war. Although I did like Tinker, Tailor with the Brit Smiley.
Quit stirring up the cold war. Although I did like Tinker, Tailor with the Brit Smiley.
1
But Trump is still a big admirer of Putin...
4
Britain's Benghazi equivalent.
1
It is my understanding that both Hillary Clinton and G. W. Bush "approved" the Iraq War. And others. If I remember, it was a humanitarian action.
49
Wow. Can it have escaped you that Bush STARTED the Iraq War, and he and his men fabricated lies and evidence with the plain purpose of deceiving? And succeeded in that not only Clinton but with all the republican and most of the democratic Congress? Talk about false equivalencies. At some point the right needs to face the damage done by Bush and his friends and stop trying to lie it away.
3
Your understanding is incorrect. Hillary Clinton was not in the Bush administration. Did you really not know this?
1
"It is my understanding that both Hillary Clinton and G. W. Bush "approved" the Iraq War. And others."
So did the majority our representatives in the Congress!
So did the majority our representatives in the Congress!
Really, what did you expect a British report to find? The Brits are the biggest poodle the USA owns. Look at how Tony Blair was turned into a Bush puppet during "Operation Let's Invade Iraq For What Our Friends In Saudi Arabia Did On 9-1-1". "Probably Approved" is the key phrase indicating that (like WMDs) we want it to be so bad that even if the evidence does not prove it, let's execute the accused anyway. Why oh why can't those mean old Russians who refuse to recognize our exceptional, exclusive rights to rule the world,be kinder and more Christian like we are? We never kill people we don't like. We never overthrow democratically elected governments that don't bow to us. We never play dirty tricks on even our own citizens who attempt to expose our sins. Yes, Communism may have fallen in Russia, and we may have a new bogeyman in the Muslim, but since those stubborn Russians refuse to get out of our way in our quest for never ending hegemony, we still need to demonize them now and then to keep those American flags waving, and those young men and women enlisting just in case the domestic economic situation regarding jobs, health care, housing etc. is not enough to force them to seek livelihood as uniformed hit men for the CIA, NSA, FBI, and the remainder of the alphabet soup of clandestine unseen government. Putin may have blood on his hands, but so does Bush & Obama. That blood doesn't come clean because it's washed in dirty water.
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You nailed it all brilliantly, Tony. Thank you for not being politically naive like half of the population of this exceptional country; I think they will all miss out on your witty, nuanced irony which cannot be reduced to regurgitating sound bites.
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And always some Lord issuing those rulings, be it incrimination of Russians or Blair's exoneration. And all bow in silence.
I look forward to reading the report. Not having read it, but listening to the judge this a.m. on C-Span, I have no reason to believe that Putin was involved other than the same basis that leads all of us to believe a husband is likely the murderer of his wife or for some that Tom Brady "cheated (a pet peeve of mine - he wasn't even accused of that, but "generally knowing"). It is pure speculation.
Of course, if there is secret evidence which will not be released, there could be proof. But, whatever the reason for the secrecy, I'm not ready to come to a conclusion that the judge is fairly accusing Putin. Obviously they feel keeping it secret is more important than letting us know. That's okay and there may be a very good reason. But past experience tells me not to base my own judgment upon it.
Of course, if there is secret evidence which will not be released, there could be proof. But, whatever the reason for the secrecy, I'm not ready to come to a conclusion that the judge is fairly accusing Putin. Obviously they feel keeping it secret is more important than letting us know. That's okay and there may be a very good reason. But past experience tells me not to base my own judgment upon it.
7
Your right, and the article states as much of course. However in my mind he is a prime suspect. All you really need to know is that he used to run the KGB for the Soviet Union. He has stated in several interviews that he prefered the Soviet way of governing. This is Trumps new buddy,......
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I don't disagree, Mike. I "suspect" him too for the reasons you gave, whatever the judge said. I just try to do what Judge Sotomayor said in her Wise Latina speech that she had to repudiate in order to get on the S. Ct - you have to recognize you have biases and try to account for that in coming to decisions. We aren't judges but I think it is generally the same process. I can't tell you how many people have done it with me and I sure don't like it. But, if you put a proverbial gun to my head - sure I think it likely he was involved - or someone who knew what he wanted.
Allegedly Putin poisons adversaries; Obama drones them along with massive collateral damage. Few saints in the governing business.
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Obama "drones" political adversaries? Come on, this is an absurd comment.
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A simply astounding and absurd piece of moral relativism. The invasion of Crimea, the backing of Assad, the assassination of political foes, the coddling of oligarchs, the suppression of the press -- all of that and much more you would compare to going after the likes of ISIS and the Taliban?
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Ah yes, I remember that time when Obama had a drone kill Hillary Clinton for leaving his administration than criticizing his Syria policy, or that time when Chuck Hagel told the press Obama didn't listen to him about Afghanistan.
9
Reads like a LeCarre spy novel.
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I just read the actual 369 page report - if you're into spy novels, do read it - the NY Times included the link. It's captivating.
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Donald Trump's good buddy murdering his opposition. Beware of totalitarianism.
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Don't you know? "Totalitarianism always begins at home"…watch your back.
1
Wait...if a First World country allows Russian oligarchs, Arab sheiks, and Chinese Communist Party members to launder their ill gotten gains by purchasing multi-million homes all cash, their criminal past may follow them?
Quelle surprise!
Quelle surprise!
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Now that the price of oil is down, russia has lost all its power. I wonder what other atrocities this criminal state is hiding.
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I'd say have a look at Ukraine and Syria first, should be plenty of evidence scattered around.
3
No evidence. No jurisdiction. Really!
4
Only in this day and age could the poison found in the bathroom of the accused be called "no evidence".
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Judge Owen did not provide any direct evidence according to the article. The poison is proof that the deceased was poisoned and some evidence that it came from a Russian reactor, but not who did it. The guy was a former KGB agent and there are plenty of people with a motive to kill him. Guilt by innuendo - totally useless inquiry and totally useless article.
5
Mr. Putin recently occupied an honored place at the Iran nuclear negotiations, which is probably why it turned out to be such a good deal for us.
4
Make that a great deal for us.
5
This is the least of Putin's problems but it does come a a very bad moment for him. Cash reserves for Russia is officially at $350 billion. Better estimates are closer to $200 billion. Selling oil for under $30 only drains Russia's coffers further. And it has been reported that Vladimir is smiling more at people these days.
I'm sure Lenin is spinning in his grave at 10,000 RPM now! Zinng!
I'm sure Lenin is spinning in his grave at 10,000 RPM now! Zinng!
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Reply to Jack Illinois - Lenin has nothing to do with Putin. Whatever oil sells for, it loads Russian coffers. Nice try - not.
2
CK, you don't understand about oil. At these low, low prices oil rigs here in the U.S. shut down because they would lose money to operate. The weak oil drilling companies now risk bankruptcy and will probably be bought by stronger companies. Saudi Arabia are now looking for international loans, something they have not done before.
If oil continues this way, and it is a big "if", it will damage all oil producing countries and companies. Russia is no different. The Russian oil minister said just the other day that some production had to cease, they have no choice.
Please read up before you make your comments!
If oil continues this way, and it is a big "if", it will damage all oil producing countries and companies. Russia is no different. The Russian oil minister said just the other day that some production had to cease, they have no choice.
Please read up before you make your comments!
5
Russia's costs extracting oil are in rubles, but the sales are in dollars. Do a little math.
The judge is right to find that Mr. Litvinenko was murdered by at least one of the two accused. The evidence points convincingly in that direction.
However, the assertion that President Putin "probably" ordered his death based on supposition seems wildly inappropriate for the judge to make. It is clearly a political accusation, not an evidenced-based finding.
This is very disturbing, and a sign of bad faith on Britain's part. It's disturbing not least because it tarnishes a widely respected legal system.
However, the assertion that President Putin "probably" ordered his death based on supposition seems wildly inappropriate for the judge to make. It is clearly a political accusation, not an evidenced-based finding.
This is very disturbing, and a sign of bad faith on Britain's part. It's disturbing not least because it tarnishes a widely respected legal system.
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Hardly 'supposition' Nick ! Polonium is a an isotope that does not occur naturally - it is the byproduct of nuclear fission. The extraction, refinement, and ultimate delivery to London of such a nasty element demands the systemic organization that only a government could wield. And who do you think has the power to deliver such coordination across multiple departments?
What is more disturbing is that the Russians are up to their old tricks again, and especially assassination. That they tried and succeeded in the West should under any circumstances ensure their pariah status. Here's hoping that the price of oil stays low for enough time to undermine the Russian people's adulation of vicious, petty dictators.
What is more disturbing is that the Russians are up to their old tricks again, and especially assassination. That they tried and succeeded in the West should under any circumstances ensure their pariah status. Here's hoping that the price of oil stays low for enough time to undermine the Russian people's adulation of vicious, petty dictators.
5
The reason for this is supposedly the British government's "secret evidence" that can not be released to the public.
You should look at the discovery of government brand detonators under a housing block that failed to blow up in the early 200s. The other housing blocks did and this "terrorism" was used as a precursor for the Russian invasion of Chechnya. All journalists investigating this have ended up dead. I'm referencing an episode of CBS Frontline, not some conspiracy source.
4
Well, according to the GOP frontrunners, Putin is that strong leader they admire 'cause he gets things done. Kinda makes you wonder how they'd run things.
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Right - he gets things done. Like murdering the opposition and invading countries.
3
This guy is as bad as Stalin
9
As bad as Nixon maybe. It's remarkable that any person would display that they read so little as to make the analogy you do.
5
I have no intention of defending Putin and his actions, but let's maintain a sense of perspective: Stalin killed or imprisoned millions.
5
And as bad a Kissinger, too. Henry has only a few million death's on his hands throughout South East Asia. He and Mao would have been bosom-buddies, with the rate they were killing innocent men, women and children…
1
Stating the obvious. But the British government at the time chose to turn a blind eye to Putin's atrocities in exchange for lucrative contracts and the corrupt Russian oligarchs' money with ties to the KGB/FSB pouring into London's real estate.
13
When will the Russians learn that rather than address the facts presented, claiming a charge is being made in order to defame them is as good as admitting guilt? I work with a number of Russians, and it seems to be a cultural flaw.
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Tyrone NYC - The issue is defamation, if there were any proof whatsoever the word probably would not be used.
3
This is easily explained. Russians are liars. It is cultural. For centuries Russia and then the USSR has been a police state. Lying is a survival skill. Telling the truth will get you killed. Ratting people out, even your own family members, was not uncommon. That's one of the tenets of a police state-create fear and distrust. I've had people from the former USSR lie to me when the truth was blatantly obvious and when telling the truth has no downside consequences. They couldn't help themselves. Like Reagan said, trust but verify.
4
And you, of course, have a monopoly on the truth.
Putin does not have many allies on the world stage, but that two of them are Bashar al-Assad and Kim Jong-un speaks volumes. Were Putin running Russia when Pol Pot was alive, they would no doubt be brothers in arms. It's nice that Donald Trump has so much respect for the man.
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Marcos59 mht NH - Russia has vested interests in Syria. In an environment like Syria the leader is going to be an Assad type, and you can't name a replacement, can you? You obviously did not learn a thing from the removal of Saddam Hussein in Iraq.
2
Liberals would never convict Putin without a fair trial.
Nor our murder of Gaddafi in Libya - recall the Hillary Brands™ trenchant observation? "We came, we saw, he died." Nice, huh? And how would SHE run the country. I guess we're about to find out…
1
Why should we care if one Russian spy kills another Russian spy? Putin is in charge of his spy agency. Is another country killed a Russian Spy, Say t a British spy killed a Russian spy, everyone would have probably said, "Good for them."
Everyone's opinion was from the beginning was that Putin did it. They could have just gone to a pub and talked about it. The answer would have been the same except a lot less time and money and a lot more fun.
Everyone's opinion was from the beginning was that Putin did it. They could have just gone to a pub and talked about it. The answer would have been the same except a lot less time and money and a lot more fun.
21
The British care because the guy was a British citizen murdered in Britain. If we stop "caring" about that sort of thing then your squirrel gun is going to melt from overuse.
10
Litvinenko was a British citizen at the time.
9
And he was permitted to become a British citizen because...?
Unless the probability has a number attached to it, probable cause doesn't mean very much. Is the probability 20 per cent that Putin signed off on the assassination or 90 per cent. The probability, of course, in U.S. criminal trials for a guilty judgment, must be "beyond a reasonable doubt", which probably means at least 95 per cent.
5
Protests from our regular Russian readership aside, is this in any way news? Will it in any way change Mr. Putin's behavior? Just one more sneer and snide comment about the West being out to get Russia, all the time laughing at how little the West will really do and how useful it is in rallying public opinion around him.
Welcome to the new Cold War and the most poplar Czar ever.
Welcome to the new Cold War and the most poplar Czar ever.
3
Are you suggesting that Russian protests are not valid and without merit? Why would that be?
3
No surprise there. What you expect of a guy who used to be the head of the KGB? And now, the top guy in the Kremlin?
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This is almost as surprising as the news that hunter gatherers fought each other with weapons seen in another recent article.
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Those were probably Putin's direct ancestors.
4
The circumstantial evidence seems to be strong, but it sounds as if the verdict must be the Scottish "Not Proven."
27
The same could be said of every American President.
1
There is ever accruing evidence that Putin is at the center of a criminal enterprise to defraud the Russian people as he expunges his enemies.
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Russians love him.
4
Dear CK,
Sorry but I believe the case is, "Pravda Reports That Russians Love President Putin". Take that with a bit of polonium salt... oh my bad, with regular table salt.
Sorry but I believe the case is, "Pravda Reports That Russians Love President Putin". Take that with a bit of polonium salt... oh my bad, with regular table salt.
10