It seems the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Cliven Bundy marks himself as a incompetent manager and deadbeat with his refusal to pay the minimal grazing fees for raising his cattle on public resources. Now his sons want to steal land outright. Public lands belong to all Americans. We have decided how to manage public land based on the dismal record of private interests and everyone's needs. The Bundy clan can't sell their bankrupt ideology on it's merits so they move to their guns and bluster. Evict these buglers and let them cool their heels in a federal prison for a few years.
42
It sounds so familiar to when the Native Americans advised if they could just continue to live on their land and use the resources there and keep the Federal Government & Soldiers, Gold-Miners, trappers out! It seemed simple to them also.
4
I notice the authorities have decided not to cut off the electricity to the site in fear that without heat the water pipes might freeze and burst and severly damage the facility. I think that was a good idea. Waiting these people out, denying them supplies will probably end the stand off without violence in the near future. These wannabe revolutionaries seem to be an inept bunch. If they had planned to be there for a long time they should have had the forethought to bring enough groceries. I guess that's why instead of 10 gallon hats they wear the 5 gallon variety, made especially for half-witted cowboys.
30
These folks have the morman power ranger himself, CAPTAIN MARONI!, on their side. This pretty much sums up their mentality. Perhaps now the scientologists will revolt as well. I'm with the Trekkers.
14
Can we just call a spade a spade for a change?
Reality: grazing of and resource extraction from public lands is welfare.
Reality: giving the land to the states is giving it to campaign contributors.
Reality: opening it up for public sale, and it ends up with the super-wealthy.
Reality: taking up arms against the government is insurrection.
Reality: we the people own the land, and it should stay that way. Period.
Apparently, America's policy against negotiating with terrorists depends on one's last name, inasmuch as it clearly does not hold if your last name is Bundy.
Undoubtedly, if a group of Americans whose last names were Faisal, Hussein, and Rafsanjani were armed and took over a U.S. government building in Portland, claiming they had done so because an American named Arafat was given a prison sentence for arson, and saying to a reporter they were willing to kill and be killed, they would be called terrorists by the American government and dealt with summarily and accordingly.
Maybe next summer, instead of camping out, I'll just change my name to Smith N. Wesson and take over a nice, comfortable, National Park Service ranger cabin in the Tetons. Can I get some of you folks to bring me some steaks while I hunker down in the name of your rights?
Reality: grazing of and resource extraction from public lands is welfare.
Reality: giving the land to the states is giving it to campaign contributors.
Reality: opening it up for public sale, and it ends up with the super-wealthy.
Reality: taking up arms against the government is insurrection.
Reality: we the people own the land, and it should stay that way. Period.
Apparently, America's policy against negotiating with terrorists depends on one's last name, inasmuch as it clearly does not hold if your last name is Bundy.
Undoubtedly, if a group of Americans whose last names were Faisal, Hussein, and Rafsanjani were armed and took over a U.S. government building in Portland, claiming they had done so because an American named Arafat was given a prison sentence for arson, and saying to a reporter they were willing to kill and be killed, they would be called terrorists by the American government and dealt with summarily and accordingly.
Maybe next summer, instead of camping out, I'll just change my name to Smith N. Wesson and take over a nice, comfortable, National Park Service ranger cabin in the Tetons. Can I get some of you folks to bring me some steaks while I hunker down in the name of your rights?
97
Pone of the best things about the area I live in - they are required to lock the asylum doors at all times.
5
Thank god for history professors. Yes kids, the humanities are important.
59
Until I visited my cousin in Prineville in October last year, I was not aware that sections of Oregon like Prineville have one of the highest unemployment rates in the United States. Prineville thrived as long as the lumber mills thrived. Now the mills are closed; logging has been halted by environmental concerns. Prineville will soon become a ghost town. Idle hands and minds are easily conviinced to act irrationally. The anger is there. Job training away from logging and ranching would go a long way to calming irate people.
19
FWIW, here’s the link to Gail Collins’ account of the earlier occupation of Nevada land by this same crowd, there spearheaded by Cliven Bundy, father of the two ringleaders (or at least spokesmen) for the current occupiers: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/26/opinion/collins-of-fox-and-the-cattle....®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=search&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
Equally gormless.
Equally gormless.
6
While these Bundys of the world love to use the rhetoric of the oppressed patriot taking up arms only after the tyranny of the crown has become unbearable, the reality is really laughable.
In reality what happened is that Mr. Bundy got his hand on some assault weapons and, like the man with a hammer, went out looking for some place to use it. This guy (a car salesman from Phoenix) saw a story on the news that didn't remotely affect him, traveled hundreds of miles to pick a fight that wasn't his, in which he wasn't wanted, and against a purported opponent not really at all interested in swatting him.
This is just getting better and better.
In reality what happened is that Mr. Bundy got his hand on some assault weapons and, like the man with a hammer, went out looking for some place to use it. This guy (a car salesman from Phoenix) saw a story on the news that didn't remotely affect him, traveled hundreds of miles to pick a fight that wasn't his, in which he wasn't wanted, and against a purported opponent not really at all interested in swatting him.
This is just getting better and better.
36
The Bundys might prove to have been a silver lining for the local economy after this crazy episode is over (and it will be soon, I'm sure). I'm an Oregonian and love the Malheur Refuge. Maybe it wasn't well known before, but it certainly will be now. It's a beautiful area for those who love birding, high desert, exploring and getting the Wild West fix every now and then. Thanks for the publicity, boys!
24
The usual neo-conservative/tea party blather:
Rights without responsibility.
Freedom without duty or obligation.
Protesting tyranny without any clue as to what tyranny really is, or what it would to "protesters" such as these.
Ignorance, willful and ideological.
People such as these "protesters" are simply spoiled, selfish, ill-read, and ill-educated.
Rights without responsibility.
Freedom without duty or obligation.
Protesting tyranny without any clue as to what tyranny really is, or what it would to "protesters" such as these.
Ignorance, willful and ideological.
People such as these "protesters" are simply spoiled, selfish, ill-read, and ill-educated.
58
This whole thing has the ring of an old Western movie. Good guys, bad guys, the government, guns, land, cattle, and the whole shee-bang. All we need now is a handsome cowboy in a white hat to put a stop to the stupid armed cattle rustlers' land grab, and his pretty young lady amour to make it a Hollywood blockbuster.
16
I've never understood why ranchers feel they have the right to graze their animals on public land for next to nothing. They should be able to graze their animals on their own private land, or somebody else's for a competitive fee, but when it comes to using public land for grazing their animals, if that's going to be allowed at all, the ranchers should pay a fee commensurate with the damage their animals are doing to local and global environment. Extinction is forever, and wildlife should be valued more than our desire for cheap meat. Livestock ranching contributes to a significant percent of our global greenhouse gas emissions and America's meat-centered diets are contributing to high rates of chronic diseases. We need less ranching, not more, and the government needs to stop subsiding this harmful industry.
100
I visited Oregon a few times: nice weather, beautiful scenes, a place for retirement. Why the name Malheur? Is not this destiny? The name means bad time. Had it been named Bonheur, then this place should have a good time now. Blame the Chinese for it!
3
Armed groups who shut down parts of the Federal government, and local schools are terrorists, inspiring other copy cat shootings. There should be an investigation into the local police to see why they haven't sent in SWAT teams as they would in all other terrorist attacks.
12
Oh for the good old days (How many decades ago were they?) when you could lie on your saddlebag pillow, with the shadow of a mountain chasing you up the prairie, when you could warm your feet by the fire, and come face to face with nothing but your horse, a howling coyote, and the man in the moon. Those days are gone. The federal government has barged in, leaving the doors swinging behind it, and all those gadfly eastern bootlicking tourists have been creeping in on its coattails. What a shame! But guess what? The Paiutes and the Chinooks and the Kalapuya felt the same way a couple of hundred years ago. Across the pond, so did William Wordsworth:
The World Is Too Much With Us
BY WILLIAM WORDSWORTH
The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;—
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not. Great God! I’d rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn.
The World Is Too Much With Us
BY WILLIAM WORDSWORTH
The world is too much with us; late and soon,
Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers;—
Little we see in Nature that is ours;
We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon!
This Sea that bares her bosom to the moon;
The winds that will be howling at all hours,
And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers;
For this, for everything, we are out of tune;
It moves us not. Great God! I’d rather be
A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn;
So might I, standing on this pleasant lea,
Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn;
Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea;
Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn.
12
CUDOS TO THE NYTimes for publishing this opinion. Public land issues in the West are often ignored or the west is reported as populated by bunch of rednecks who all believe the way these blowhards do. The truth is far more complex and important not only to all Americans but to the very fabric of life. Public lands are just that - public. They do not belong to private interests. Public lands must be managed to include the landscape (i.e. water rights, grazing issues, endangered and non-endangered wildlife, etc.). It is these open spaces that provide ranchers with land for grazing, wildlife for hunters to hunt and landscapes for people to explore and enjoy. These people are takers and should not be tolerated as they are nothing but thieves, thugs and bullies. They do not represent the west and westerners in general by any stretch of the imagination.
95
These guys are always wanting 'Free Stuff'! Buy your own land, and you can graze all you want.
38
"We don't like what you're doing with that land. We will take it for ourselves."
This sentiment has propelled the United States from sea to shining sea. Old habits die hard.
This sentiment has propelled the United States from sea to shining sea. Old habits die hard.
16
Collaboration and compromise are for sissies. What fun is it being a guy if you can't occasionally strap on your holster, grab your rifle, get a bunch of your friends together, drive your pick up around the back country and bellow about the federal government? Sounds like it beats working for a living.
26
I'm sure that these heroic ranchers will proudly proclaim themselves God-fearing Christians.
Believe one myth, believe another.
Believe one myth, believe another.
19
What these people don't realize this article clearly states exactly why the federal government needs to manage these lands- ranches failed, livestock starved, homesteaders went bust because they were allowed to overgraze and use the water without regulations. These federal lands belong to all of us- not just the jerks that think they can graze their cattle on federal land without paying for it (like the local jerk here in Nevada that protestors gathered around last year). It is NOT their land and given how local politics work in this area- I don't want the state in charge of the BLM land- I want the feds in charge to local politics don't regulate who gets to use it and what wildlife they can kill off.
17
cowboys are disgusting
3
Why aren't these guys in jail? They have commited serious felonies.
11
If the militia members want to give the land back to the "people,' it would seem that native Americans would be the appropriate people.
14
I liked the old show the Bundy's were in - sometimes it was amusing.
But this new reality show about armed white men who really welfare queens in cadillacs? not so much...
But this new reality show about armed white men who really welfare queens in cadillacs? not so much...
7
An excellent op-ed piece, Ms. Langston.
Will the various law enforcement agencies having jurisdiction over this matter kindly enforce the laws, bring this standoff to an end, and jail the perpetrators. Oh, and while you are at it, please collect the money owed the US Treasury by Cliven Bundy and jail that crowd as well.
Will the various law enforcement agencies having jurisdiction over this matter kindly enforce the laws, bring this standoff to an end, and jail the perpetrators. Oh, and while you are at it, please collect the money owed the US Treasury by Cliven Bundy and jail that crowd as well.
9
Lookout tower at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge-
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/p_bush.jpg
from the series, "Panorama of Southeastern Oregon",
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/panorama.htm
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/p_bush.jpg
from the series, "Panorama of Southeastern Oregon",
http://members.efn.org/~hkrieger/panorama.htm
They are right though, the government is supposed to represent and work for US. Giving a second jail sentence when the first was satisfied was quite wrong. If the government persists in wearing blinders and thinking their rulings are omniscient in power and justice without bothering to look at BOTH sides and actually admit when they are wrong I can only foresee more confrontations happening - and they won't be wrong in their stand for our rights either.
The interests of ranchers and of wildlife need to be recognized and the goal is a good compromise. The ranchers are not acting in that spirit. Is the federal government? We are told that the law indicates that the first priority is wildlife. That allows for all kinds of accommodations. There are federal animal refuges where hunting is allowed. This is not a black-white issue. Neither side should disregard the interests of the other.
Public land - means the land belongs to all citizens - not just the US government. These farmer and ranchers can actually buy federal land - but either cannot afford too or have the twisted belief that because they have leased the land - they are entitled to it for free.
6
In this case, promulgating a mythic history equates with telling a big lie.
6
I saw this yesterday and its pretty funny stuff.
YallQueada waging Yeehawd
A mostly hilarious series of cartoons and parodies
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/nation-world/article/YallQaeda-other-hasht...
YallQueada waging Yeehawd
A mostly hilarious series of cartoons and parodies
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/nation-world/article/YallQaeda-other-hasht...
7
Whether they realize it or not, these yokels are tools of casino capitalists who have a long range plan to own every piece of public property, and take over every public service, they can get their greedy paws on.
They don't do it by crazy occupations. They buy politicians. It's all very legal with secret land deals stuffed without debate into must-pass appropriation bills by pols like Senator McCain. They swap prime public land to developers in exchange for a tiny piece of private swampland far away. These racketeering politicians also starve public land budgets so that privateers can come in and 're$cue' them.
These militiamen shouldn't be wasting their time trying to liberate public land for private use and profit. That will happen soon enough providing the government-corporate racketeers keep running Washington DC.
What they should be more concerned about is holding onto their own private land and freeing it from the ownership of banks who've given them repeated, easy loans. Banksters know, even if ranchers won't face it, that Mother Nature has already pulled the plug on their livelihood. They're living on bank loans and government life support.
After the banksters take possession, they'll sell that land to investment groups or foreign billionaire 'ranchers' and you can bet they'll put up strong locked gates to keep the public out. Montanans have already seen enough of that happen.
Keep Public Lands Public!
They don't do it by crazy occupations. They buy politicians. It's all very legal with secret land deals stuffed without debate into must-pass appropriation bills by pols like Senator McCain. They swap prime public land to developers in exchange for a tiny piece of private swampland far away. These racketeering politicians also starve public land budgets so that privateers can come in and 're$cue' them.
These militiamen shouldn't be wasting their time trying to liberate public land for private use and profit. That will happen soon enough providing the government-corporate racketeers keep running Washington DC.
What they should be more concerned about is holding onto their own private land and freeing it from the ownership of banks who've given them repeated, easy loans. Banksters know, even if ranchers won't face it, that Mother Nature has already pulled the plug on their livelihood. They're living on bank loans and government life support.
After the banksters take possession, they'll sell that land to investment groups or foreign billionaire 'ranchers' and you can bet they'll put up strong locked gates to keep the public out. Montanans have already seen enough of that happen.
Keep Public Lands Public!
15
Yep, it's MY land and I can destroy it if I want.
7
The Center for Western Priorities http://westernpriorities.org calls this a public land grab by logging and mining interests. "Follow the money," seems to apply here just as it does with so many other issues: NRA and small arms manufacturers' profits, endless war to create endless military contracts, eviscerating the US Postal Service to turn the business over to FedEx/UPS and the real estate over to private investors, and on and on
17
Federal land ownership is an issue that is unique to the West, and it is intimately tied up with water rights. If you look at a map of Federal land ownership and draw a line from the eastern boundaries of Montana, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico, most of the land from there West is owned be the Federal Government. Combine this with the fact that water is a scare resource in the West and the fact that whoever owns the land that a river flows over has rights to some of that water, you have a situation where the Federal government controls much of what happens in the West.
Think back to the last time you had dealings with a federal bureaucrat, was it a pleasant experience? Was your request handled quickly and with courtesy, or were you sent on an endless paper chase that had nothing to do with reality? Now imagine if you living depended on dealing with federal bureaucrats, also imagine that you chose to be a rancher (God knows why) and those same bureaucrats could decide where you grazed your cattle, how much water you could use and whether you could grow hay this year to feed those cattle or not.
These are not people whose biggest problem is, can they get a reservation at the Four Seasons. They are dealing with drought, blizzards, stupid cattle who insist in getting lost in the most difficult box canyon around, and then have to deal with the Federal Government on top of that. I am not excusing their actions, they are wrong, but I understand their frustration.
Think back to the last time you had dealings with a federal bureaucrat, was it a pleasant experience? Was your request handled quickly and with courtesy, or were you sent on an endless paper chase that had nothing to do with reality? Now imagine if you living depended on dealing with federal bureaucrats, also imagine that you chose to be a rancher (God knows why) and those same bureaucrats could decide where you grazed your cattle, how much water you could use and whether you could grow hay this year to feed those cattle or not.
These are not people whose biggest problem is, can they get a reservation at the Four Seasons. They are dealing with drought, blizzards, stupid cattle who insist in getting lost in the most difficult box canyon around, and then have to deal with the Federal Government on top of that. I am not excusing their actions, they are wrong, but I understand their frustration.
7
The Eastern side of the Cascade & Sierra Range from Nevada through Eastern Washington is High Desert which is mainly Sage Brush with some Juniper tree forests in southern Oregon and some occasional meadows and bunch grasses. The main vegetation is Sage Brush and the plant that becomes Tumbleweed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_tridentata The plant pictured is probably more than 25 years old. That is how slowly it grows.
What happened for over a decade;
http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arso...
These “rancher’s” are burning the land to kill of Sage and encourage grasses. What they don’t tell you is that this is driven by greed because they do not want to live off the smaller number of cattle it is possible to graze without doing permanent damage to the land. These are not simple “folks” they are smart and greedy pirate capitalists who like their forebears of the same ilk seek to make as much money as is possible with out any concern at all for the land they claim to love. As with all things GOP the thing they say they love only exists in their fantasies, the natural land as it is they hate with a passion, which is why they burn it to change it.
They want us to see them as powerless to do anything else.
Bundy is promoting a false version of events here to distract us from the fact that his family is freeloading off the taxpayer to earn their living.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_tridentata The plant pictured is probably more than 25 years old. That is how slowly it grows.
What happened for over a decade;
http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arso...
These “rancher’s” are burning the land to kill of Sage and encourage grasses. What they don’t tell you is that this is driven by greed because they do not want to live off the smaller number of cattle it is possible to graze without doing permanent damage to the land. These are not simple “folks” they are smart and greedy pirate capitalists who like their forebears of the same ilk seek to make as much money as is possible with out any concern at all for the land they claim to love. As with all things GOP the thing they say they love only exists in their fantasies, the natural land as it is they hate with a passion, which is why they burn it to change it.
They want us to see them as powerless to do anything else.
Bundy is promoting a false version of events here to distract us from the fact that his family is freeloading off the taxpayer to earn their living.
9
What about the First Americans? Do they have a claim?
The protesters seem to forget that they are not the ones with the first claim on these lands. They were wrested from their rightful owners long before these claimants even had ancestors on the land.
Historic memory is severely lacking.
The protesters seem to forget that they are not the ones with the first claim on these lands. They were wrested from their rightful owners long before these claimants even had ancestors on the land.
Historic memory is severely lacking.
2
I agree with the thrust of this story, but I wonder whether the author really saw those mutilated coyotes, or just heard about them. Around where I live, ranchers shoot coyotes, but they don't mutilate them. Why get your hands all bloody?
How do we distinguish armed rebellion against US facilities from treason?
9
My question remains unanswered. Why are terrorists allowed to subvert the will of the people by occupying my land?
10
Why is no one mentioning the tragedy of the commons?!?!?! A very, very basic social theory.
4
Again, guns claiming national attention ... guns do not set up the stage for any balanced or rational dialogue nor fair compromise. When will our nation ever learn.
9
If a group of Muslims were armed and took over a Federal government building, Limbaugh, Fox News, Beck, Cruz, Trump, Palin and the rest of that lot would be apoplectic in demanding a tough and immediate response. But an armed group of White Supremacists should be treated with kid-gloves, allowing their demands to be voiced. Same thing when Evangelicals refuse to obey the law regarding gay marriage. The Constitution is the legal standard for the right, until it isn't.
19
Calm, EDUCATED, cool heads are needed to come together to work out the grievances. In my opinion, the militants have just marked a strike against their cause with their violence.
1
I suspect the reason why nothing has been done is that the local authorities have the same beliefs, but I do wonder why the feds are doing nothing.
2
The Bundys are a bunch of deadbeats who don't pay their bills. They are already getting lower grazing fees than available on the open market, yet they refuse to pay. They are outlaws, pure and simple, and I only wish that the administration would go full-on Branch Davidian on them. (Where's Janet Reno when you need her?)
9
The armed activists' understanding of their heritage reminds me of the famous line from John Ford's "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: "This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
6
Excellent historical background to present dispute.
6
They are domestic terrorists and should be treated as such. Arrest them. The fact that you want public land to be your own private space does not mean you can have it. If you want private land go and buy it like the rest of us do. This is a dangerous precedent and should not be allowed to continue any longer.
10
Anti-government militia’s have no place in America. Those who publish lies to promote fascist ideas/ideals - like the National Rifle Association - should be sued for slander and out of existence. Being able to recite this real history in Oregon should be required to purchase a gun or secure a drivers license.
5
Dr. Langston, thank you so much for introducing your voice! There's no comparison between what a reporter (valuable as they are) can scrape up over 48 hours and what a professor has come to understand over a career of research and field work. Thank you for taking the time!
7
Thank you so much for this history. I live in OR and many of my friends go to Malheur to bird watch and all. We are for preservation of the rights of animals and hikers.
50
i live in northern NM and the best way to keep coyotes away from livestock is a pair of well trained great pyrenees. they are incredibly powerful, fearless and obedient.
6
History did not begin nor end in Oregon with the arrival of armed European Americans on Native American lands. Nor does history end with the invasion and occupation of federal land in Oregon by a band of armed European American terrorist criminal rebels.
5
you should start you land story with the native americans
5
This is an interesting piece but the title is frustrating: Anger? Hardly, just mean and dumb. I grew up with a few guys like this, most of us did. Some outgrew it, a few still act out and continue as morons with guns. Unfortunately, is has become easy to find each other.
13
This article does a great job of providing a context to the current problems. But, it ignores the catalyst--the two ranchers re-jailed for arson. I think that a significant majority of reasonable people would agree that breaking the law on federal land might get you sent to jail, when found guilty in a court of law you are given a debt to society, you pay that debt, and afterwards you try to get your life started again. This same majority of reasonable people would shudder imagining being told that authorities have decided the original sentence was too short, and consequently the once-jailed ranchers get called back to jail. Good grief! Who is to blame for the too-short jail sentences? Perhaps that person should be held accountable.
5
That would be either the federal judge who bought the argument that the federal sentencing law that applied to the Hammonds was unconstitutional or the Hammond's attorney who made the argument.
1
There has been one theme to this sorry episode that so far has little if no attention. What were/are the rights of the Native American population that once lived in these lands which was taken from them, either by force or subterfuge?
And why are they not brandishing guns saying, "I want my country back"? Perhaps the Bundy Gang ought to talk to some Native Americans to get their perspective on rights to the land.
And why are they not brandishing guns saying, "I want my country back"? Perhaps the Bundy Gang ought to talk to some Native Americans to get their perspective on rights to the land.
6
May be there should be a column on what people native to this land think about this occupation.
2
I haven't heard that Cliven Bundy's bank accounts or all his property has a lien on it by the IRS. Why not? Anyone else could not get away with this.
10
When those holed up in the bird sanctuary demand returning the land to the "people", they mean they want it given to them. The land already belongs to the "people. " They are trespassing, and need to go home, or better still, to jail.
13
Isolation breeds extreme ideas, psychosis, paranoia, suspicion, and the feeling that one is the master of all he surveys. Let's disabuse these wackos of their erroneous suppositions, by force, if necessary.
5
The West won’t be won by ideologues brandishing guns and seizing government property.
is that not what happened at the last Bundy standoff? A complete collapse of the rule of law by hoodlums using firearms?
is that not what happened at the last Bundy standoff? A complete collapse of the rule of law by hoodlums using firearms?
Right, the key point on the Malheur "militia" is their retrograde political program: Privatization of public lands. This is to be firmly rejected. We need to be moving in the opposite direction, especially with urban housing and its skyrocketing rents.
6
Has anyone considered the source of funding and motivation of these people? It looks very much like a front for a multi-national corporate land grab. The locals may be stand ins for the the big money who will grab the land and graze it to oblivion.
7
Excellent piece! Thank you very much.
2
Increasingly, the downside of cows for meat becomes clear. Whether methane, grain feed, colon cancer or the new endangered species- rugged cowboy rancher with an assault weapon- maybe it's time to wean ourselves from burgers.
7
I've been to this part of Oregon many times. Ranchers in the area already benefit from grazing fees much lower than they would pay on private land. How much grazing and what fees should levied has caused tension between the BLM, forest service and local ranchers. This has been an ongoing issue in eastern Oregon for years. The responsible ranchers realize there is a balance between land use for cattle and restrictions to prevent overuse. They work with the BLM and Forest service.
These guys want to take the land for their own purposes under the guise of "patriotism" and "freedom". Baloney. Poor business owners unable to survive on subsidies, they now want free land. Given their aims, they would over graze it in a few years and be out of business anyway. It is not their land, it is OUR land. Kick 'em off.
These guys want to take the land for their own purposes under the guise of "patriotism" and "freedom". Baloney. Poor business owners unable to survive on subsidies, they now want free land. Given their aims, they would over graze it in a few years and be out of business anyway. It is not their land, it is OUR land. Kick 'em off.
11
Well, and how much further will it be before someone convinces them that there is about to be an apocalypse and that they'll ride to heaven on horseback to the tune of Oklahoma?
Once the PO brings those darn warm socks and snacks...darn Post Office!
Once the PO brings those darn warm socks and snacks...darn Post Office!
2
A lot of good comments in this thread. One thing the government needs to make clear is that Bundy and his followers are no different then ISIL or any other terrorist group. When a terrorist group is identified, their financial ties are cut, this needs to happen to the Bundy group. Close their bank accounts, seize their assets,including land, homes,etc. Then round them up and try them as the terrorists they are.
9
This piece gives interesting local historical context to the situation in Oregon, but that is only part of the story. Since most of the militia members are outsiders with no direct skin in this game, you need go beyond the local story and tie it into the broader context of what is going in America today: the Republican party’s fear- and hate-mongering of the Federal Government (I’m waiting for Trump and Cruz to blame this all on Obama) as well as the NRA’s brainwashing of the American people. What this all comes down to is a bunch of rebels without a cause: white men with too many guns and too much time on their hands, looking for a reason to justify why they spend their time going to gun shows and buying weapons that no one in a civilized society should have any use for.
8
These ranchers are like Ryker, the rancher in "Shane." As the homesteader Starret told him, Ryker's idea of his rights was that no one else have any rights.
4
Without a managing authority such as the federal government these lands would have been exploited beyond recognition long ago. For all its faults, the BLM does keep the land in trust for all of us.
4
Where is the forced removal of the Paiute's in this account?
6
Thank you for the history lesson . Separating facts from convenient myths is necessary to understanding all this.
In a nut shell, Hamilton was right and Jefferson was wrong. Man yoked to the land and slave to the seasons lives a short, nasty and brutal life.
And nothing today's welfare ranchers and farmers say about the government can change that.
And nothing today's welfare ranchers and farmers say about the government can change that.
2
This land belongs to the American people.
That includes me.
And as the American people, I can just say the Bundys are lucky I'm not out there, because I'd take my Stand Your Ground right and shoot 'em like the trespassers they are.
That includes me.
And as the American people, I can just say the Bundys are lucky I'm not out there, because I'd take my Stand Your Ground right and shoot 'em like the trespassers they are.
3
Take off their cowboy hats and what have you got? A bunch of anti-government bums looking for government handouts in the form of cheap and exclusive land rights. Cut off the utilities to the buildings they are occupying, and cut off the subsidies. Why do I have to help pay for their farcical playacting? Grow up, boys!
7
Why the feds have not arrested Bundy and his son is beyond me. These guys don't represent ranchers in any way. They are criminals out to steal whatever profit they can from lands that don't belong to them. All the ranchers I know either own their land or lease at fair market prices. This is called the cost of business. If anybody failed to pay their lease to a private party, they'd face a huge fine and nobody would want to lease to them again. Why should public lands, that we ALL own, be any different? They owe this money to US, the PEOPLE. I suppose there will always a certain number of people who will do anything to get ahead, including robbery at gunpoint. Arrest them and take away their ill-gotten gains.
6
I can appreciate the sentiments of George Washington who commented on the first armed rebellion against the nation (Shay's Rebellion) when then he wrote Henry Knox that if someone had told him that their would be an insurrection "against the laws and constitution that we have drawn - I would thought him a Bedlamite - fit for the mad house". Wrong then, wrong now.
1
What a pathetic group of losers! Well now they have had their 15 minutes of fame. The Federal government must protect our federal lands for all Americans. Don't let these TAKERS steal what rightly belongs (bought and paid for or legally stolen from Native Americans) to all American citizens.
2
It's funny how rugged individualists of the sort who grumble about the 47% of parasites living on government handouts seem to think that the when it comes to them, they somehow are owed by right the free use of land that does not belong to them.
4
I agree with others, what the government should do is wait the occupiers out, they should turn off the power and the water, and let them show how rugged they really are. If the government forces the occupiers out at gunpoint, all they will do is create martyrs and make political hay for the hard right, if they wait them out the occupiers will look like what they are, a bunch of whiny brats whose idea of federal land is land that they can exploit, has nothing to do with freedom.
1
Having lived in Washington and Oregon most of my life I can put it into further perspective. Presently the BLM is well known as the Bureau of Lumber and Mining, giving permits to log and mine areas with very little in the way of royalties paid or real ecological controls. The Forest Service can only operate on National Forests, which the BLM land is NOT. It has been used for mining for centuries and has some of the very worst toxic hotspots, much like the one that recently turned a whole river stinking yellow.
The Ranchers have gotten a free ride at the same time, being allowed to pasture their cattle in these areas for a minimum amount paid. If it WAS individually owned, you can be sure they would have to pay MORE for pasturage. But, these cattle are an invasive species, not the native Buffalo, our cattle are from Europe and disrupt the ecology here. So do sheep, and so does monoculture timber crops.
Yes, these lands need to stay under PUBLIC Service, BUT, they need to ALL be turned over to the Forestry and Parks Services and ANY Mining, Timber Cutting or Grazing must all come under transparent Stricter Rules.
I know well: my Grandmother was in charge of a Forestry Service in Oregon, their duty was to mark what was salable, not conservation of the Forest, but it's cutting and sale and how to do it with the least public outcry, mostly by leaving uncut margins along roads so folks did not know how badly their areas had been clearcut.
Rampant abuse for Centuries!
The Ranchers have gotten a free ride at the same time, being allowed to pasture their cattle in these areas for a minimum amount paid. If it WAS individually owned, you can be sure they would have to pay MORE for pasturage. But, these cattle are an invasive species, not the native Buffalo, our cattle are from Europe and disrupt the ecology here. So do sheep, and so does monoculture timber crops.
Yes, these lands need to stay under PUBLIC Service, BUT, they need to ALL be turned over to the Forestry and Parks Services and ANY Mining, Timber Cutting or Grazing must all come under transparent Stricter Rules.
I know well: my Grandmother was in charge of a Forestry Service in Oregon, their duty was to mark what was salable, not conservation of the Forest, but it's cutting and sale and how to do it with the least public outcry, mostly by leaving uncut margins along roads so folks did not know how badly their areas had been clearcut.
Rampant abuse for Centuries!
7
This is right out of the GOP base playbook, one that relies on a mythical past as proof that all the ills of the world are 'the govn'ment'. You hear this rhetoric all the time, that if we just turned back the clock, that if we had what they remember from their childhood, where whites were the majority, where 'everyone was a God fearing Christian', when there was no EPA or OSHA, when taxes were lower, when there was no regulation, milk and honey are going to flow (leaving out that the milk and honey flowed because the US was the only one left standing after WWII).
The other reality is what these people want is to be able to use any federal land any way they want, at no cost. These same 'rugged individualists' are looking for federal handouts in the form of dirt cheap grazing and mineral rights, one thing the federal government should do is charge ranchers and mineral explores the same fees private landholders would do, I would bet it would suddenly make taking 'our land' by these 'freedom fighters' a lot less attractive.
The other reality is what these people want is to be able to use any federal land any way they want, at no cost. These same 'rugged individualists' are looking for federal handouts in the form of dirt cheap grazing and mineral rights, one thing the federal government should do is charge ranchers and mineral explores the same fees private landholders would do, I would bet it would suddenly make taking 'our land' by these 'freedom fighters' a lot less attractive.
4
Very informative and welcomed piece here. Even the Bundy's who got some jail time before the FEDS pushed for an appeal court and got the sentence made longer have disavowed the takeover protest. Locals don't support it. So cut off supplies and let the winter take its toll.
1
Just another group of whining, subsidized white men looking to mooch more from my tax dollars.
If they have the free time to instigate a rebellion against the Republic, they clearly don't need more money and free land from the rest of us.
If they have the free time to instigate a rebellion against the Republic, they clearly don't need more money and free land from the rest of us.
2
Most of these guys look very well fed and clearly they have a lot of time on their hands. Just surround the property and make sure no one and nothing goes in or out. The press should be kept out because this is an active crime scene. When they are out of provisions they can come out and be arrested.
3
Treat these anarchists the way John Adams dealt with the Whiskey rebellion in 1797. Send in the army - but, unfortunately, we don't have George Washington to lead them.
Why haven't the police arrested these clowns? Can you imagine the force that would have confronted 60's anti-Vietnam protesters armed to the teeth taking over government property? Why do these criminals get special treatment?
4
What is the difference between these several ranchers sneaking into this refuge headquarters and then refusing to leave and the 11 million illegal immigrant invaders that demonstrate about their "rights" to be in this nation and their "ownership" because they have been here and worked in an organized crime status for a few years? The only obvious difference is that our rich and powerful gain trillions in unearned profits from having 10's of millions slave-wage immigrants in this nation while these few ranchers stealing public grazing land in the middle of no where will not put any money into the offshore bank accounts of our criminal business owner and Wall Street elites. A few middle class white guys can't steal and so pay our political class and lying lobbying groups enough to justify their thefts of common goods ... like the holier than thou kings and queens living in New York City and the LA can.
"Before the federal agencies came, they said, we lived in paradise. The grass was thick, the water was abundant and the towns were thriving. We were independent, working out our problems. When the feds came, they stole our resources, and our economies collapsed." I'd guess the Native Americans would say pretty much the same thing about their past and maybe knowing how that turned out is what makes these ranchers so nervous. Karma, you know.
2
If a bunch of Islamists had taken over a wildlife refuge headquarters, these hyper-paranoid extremist "patriots" would be having hysterics. For some reason, the sight of a white man openly carrying a gun is supposed to assure us that we're safe in his presence, whereas a man of a darker shade of skin with the same weapon carried openly in the same situation would have these same "patriots" demanding airstrikes by the same government they claim is too powerful. This is the hypocritical mindset that the rantings of the Republican party and its illegitimate offspring, Hate Radio and Fox News, have brought us. Thanks, GOP. We owe it all to you.
6
Dr Langston makes an important distinction in her final paragraph about the local community coming together to resolve the issue in 2013. The ya-hoos that occupy the Federal buildings in Malheur are not locals, they are interlopers using the opportunity the Hammonds presented to push their greedy agendas. The locals want them gone and the Hammonds aren't even behind them.
Why don't the parties who came together in 2013 get together, go out there and 'splain this to these hypocritical terrorists?
P.S. Thank you Dr Langston for your concise, lucid and informative article.
Why don't the parties who came together in 2013 get together, go out there and 'splain this to these hypocritical terrorists?
P.S. Thank you Dr Langston for your concise, lucid and informative article.
2
Thanks so much for explaining this to others.
I grew up in Eastern Oregon on a farm, which included cattle. We had to lease private grazing land, we weren't able to use federal land. Hence, I have no sympathy for these parasites that call themselves independent.
One item not mentioned in the article is how many of these people obtained their land originally. It was ALL federal land to start with; the government gave it to them via homestead claims. It was the best way to entice people to settle the area.
So, like it or not, they have ALWAYS been dependent on the rest of us, via the federal government, for their way of life.
I grew up in Eastern Oregon on a farm, which included cattle. We had to lease private grazing land, we weren't able to use federal land. Hence, I have no sympathy for these parasites that call themselves independent.
One item not mentioned in the article is how many of these people obtained their land originally. It was ALL federal land to start with; the government gave it to them via homestead claims. It was the best way to entice people to settle the area.
So, like it or not, they have ALWAYS been dependent on the rest of us, via the federal government, for their way of life.
8
This is probably the best article I have read on the history and myth of the American West, concerning cowboys vs reality.
With some minor exceptions in certain river drainages the West is a semi-arid desert. Or almost desert in many places. Cows are much easier to grow in places like Florida and Wisconsin that have lots more water. In the West, without scientific management we would see a waste land. I have seen what even moderate grazing can do to a trout stream, waste.
Bundy and his cowboys sort of remind me of bush ii on that aircraft carrier, wear the right costume and people might take you serious, and big hats and guns will make these boys seem like men.
Without the federal handouts western ranchers get from US they couldn't make a living, period. They seem to think that WE the People should just give those hundreds of millions of acres to them. Wonder how they'd feel if WE told them we wanted their beef without paying for it.
Bundy and T rump represent the same thing, 40 years of telling people that the Federal government is the enemy, is evil, is not US and low information, low IQ people buy it and it becomes their theology. The fact that so many of these morons would starve without the largess of the rest of US makes the irony that much more bitter.
With some minor exceptions in certain river drainages the West is a semi-arid desert. Or almost desert in many places. Cows are much easier to grow in places like Florida and Wisconsin that have lots more water. In the West, without scientific management we would see a waste land. I have seen what even moderate grazing can do to a trout stream, waste.
Bundy and his cowboys sort of remind me of bush ii on that aircraft carrier, wear the right costume and people might take you serious, and big hats and guns will make these boys seem like men.
Without the federal handouts western ranchers get from US they couldn't make a living, period. They seem to think that WE the People should just give those hundreds of millions of acres to them. Wonder how they'd feel if WE told them we wanted their beef without paying for it.
Bundy and T rump represent the same thing, 40 years of telling people that the Federal government is the enemy, is evil, is not US and low information, low IQ people buy it and it becomes their theology. The fact that so many of these morons would starve without the largess of the rest of US makes the irony that much more bitter.
11
Thank you for the excellent look at the history of the region. As a lifelong resident of eastern Oregon I have experienced these tensions for 70 years.
You give us perspective on the consequences of either side - government or private - gaining excess power over the other.
"There is no more New Frontier
We have got to make it here"
Eagles - The Last Resort
You give us perspective on the consequences of either side - government or private - gaining excess power over the other.
"There is no more New Frontier
We have got to make it here"
Eagles - The Last Resort
These self entitled Bundy-ites are simply dealing in lies to the ignorant. The fact these lands originally belonged to the American Indians, were taken from them, and then doled out to the new states and white settlers is lost to them.
Perhaps if Bundy and his dangerous, armed mob were calling for a return of the lands to the Native Americans I could have some sympathy for their action.
Perhaps if Bundy and his dangerous, armed mob were calling for a return of the lands to the Native Americans I could have some sympathy for their action.
4
Too big a white population and it will be difficult to govern because of their small-government ideology. This is nothing new.
1
This piece perfectly exemplifies the importance of history to all of the citizenry and to elected and appointed officials.
4
When peaceful students have a sit in on a campus, conservatives scream for the police to shut them down.
When armed militiamen take over a government building, then they want our overreaching government to back off.
When armed militiamen take over a government building, then they want our overreaching government to back off.
7
I'm puzzled.
Why hasn't Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Bush and the rest of the field of gun-loving Republican candidates not shown up at the Malheur wildlife preserve? This is a great photo-op for them to demonstrate their war-mongering virility; an opportunity to fire up their angry white base. I would have thought they would have fallen over each other trying to be the first to show up in holster and gun to show support for America's exceptional gun-worshiping lawless anti-government sociopaths. I guess the Republican macho-men candidates are showing their preened feathers....chicken hawks prefer talk over action unless it is to send the children of others to a fight.
Why hasn't Cruz, Trump, Rubio, Bush and the rest of the field of gun-loving Republican candidates not shown up at the Malheur wildlife preserve? This is a great photo-op for them to demonstrate their war-mongering virility; an opportunity to fire up their angry white base. I would have thought they would have fallen over each other trying to be the first to show up in holster and gun to show support for America's exceptional gun-worshiping lawless anti-government sociopaths. I guess the Republican macho-men candidates are showing their preened feathers....chicken hawks prefer talk over action unless it is to send the children of others to a fight.
5
Thank you for an excellent article. Many political problems today can be traced to the fact that our shared history is basically provided by television and self-reproducing hearsay. Nowhere more so than in the mythologies of the West.
4
Yesterday I heard a routine executive order described as an act of treason. I also heard an armed insurrection against the US described as an act of patriotism. It's getting so I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
15
Those who believe their personal use of public land trumps everything and everyone else's interest are direct descendants of those who had no qualms about murdering Indians to take their lands for themselves.
2
Why not drain the federal buildings, turn off the power, block anyone else from entering, and let the self-sufficient red-blooded American individualists who are occupying the place make the most of their survival skills?
7
When Americans fantasize about a premodern world absent central authority, they ignore why that authority was painstakingly negotiated in the first place. Our past has never been simple or easy--even for white men--and we should admire and sustain the work previous generations put into current regulations.
4
The real interest grabber for the media is not history; but the subtle, potential use of force. The tension between potential conflict and action. We are all waiting for someone to light a match. This will be on Netflix next year.
Man and nature can coexist with a determined effort and some smart thinking. Mother nature has created a myriad of wonders that continues to fascinate, and endure. This balance is interrupted only when humans get involved with their greed and superior attitudes. Mother Nature, at the end of the day is going to win, she always does.
1
I think these militia folks should read their American history. The Whiskey Rebellion put down by President Washington shows an early example of how our Republic was to be protected. Also, the lesser known Fries rebellion in Pennsylvania when armed men took possession of a jail in the Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton region supposedly to protect an innocent man, in their opinion, was a very heated subject among the early settlers of that great State. We are guaranteed a Republic by our Constitution and this means we obey our laws or change them by peaceable means, not by mobs of armed men.
1
Militia? Really?
Semantics (endorsed and perpetuated by TNYT no less!) are playing into giving some loser, whiny thugs a degree of credibility by invoking the comic-book notion of "brave" defense from a big, mean government.
If they were anything but white guys trying to essentially annex publicly owned and protected land, there would be a tidal wave of outrage, fear and retribution reining down on Malheur.
This kind of crazy makes your head explode. Just barricade these jerks and then ignore them. When they have no further media coverage and run out of Twinkies and want to go back home, arrest them.
Their armed and illegal actions are no less egregious than hijacking a military base building rather than a bird refuge? Why should it be viewed differently?
One should assume that they intend to use the weapons they so proudly proclaim. So prosecute them accordingly. They are common criminals. Not very bright ones.
Semantics (endorsed and perpetuated by TNYT no less!) are playing into giving some loser, whiny thugs a degree of credibility by invoking the comic-book notion of "brave" defense from a big, mean government.
If they were anything but white guys trying to essentially annex publicly owned and protected land, there would be a tidal wave of outrage, fear and retribution reining down on Malheur.
This kind of crazy makes your head explode. Just barricade these jerks and then ignore them. When they have no further media coverage and run out of Twinkies and want to go back home, arrest them.
Their armed and illegal actions are no less egregious than hijacking a military base building rather than a bird refuge? Why should it be viewed differently?
One should assume that they intend to use the weapons they so proudly proclaim. So prosecute them accordingly. They are common criminals. Not very bright ones.
6
These folks are still trespassers and occupy a federal building by force. If all they get is a slap on the wrist it will encourage other group actions. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If I, or any other law abiding citizen tried to take over a federally owned building in my community you would be surprised to see how fast my show would end.
6
One could surmise from the Oregon Standoff that this be a learning experience to folks living in urban areas. Like the original Black Panthers proved, when one is armed law enforcement will hesitate before blasting away at an unarmed Black man or child.
Eventually cops used the Panthers as a reason to militarize their forces. Then they made a purposeful assault at them. There was no hesitation to do so. There was no option for negotiations as there are today in Oregon. Lesson to be learned here is if you're going to attack the Federal government be sure you get the NRA, Second Amendment zealots, anti-government militia men, and Republican presidential candidates on your side. And of course be sure you are White.
DD
Manhattan
Eventually cops used the Panthers as a reason to militarize their forces. Then they made a purposeful assault at them. There was no hesitation to do so. There was no option for negotiations as there are today in Oregon. Lesson to be learned here is if you're going to attack the Federal government be sure you get the NRA, Second Amendment zealots, anti-government militia men, and Republican presidential candidates on your side. And of course be sure you are White.
DD
Manhattan
2
These guys remind me of the Weatherman, except that they preferred bombs to guns, and were protesting the Vietnam War, not the alienation of land for preservation of wildlife. But the violence against property is very similar, and the Bundys should receive similar punishment before the law.
2
Not only do these people have a distorted, self-serving view of their own local history, they also have a distorted, self-serving view of the constitution. Unfortunately, it appears to be a view of the constitution shared by all of the contenders for the Republican nomination for president. God forbid that any of them were ever in a position to nominate a justice to the supreme court.
5
What I don't understand, is why these armed hustlers aren't shut down immediately. The power and water for the building should cease if they plan to stay, as they said, "for a long, long time". More importantly, is how the Fed will handle this situation and how quickly they can cease this stupidity. I pay federal taxes, and I'm not about to finance a bunch of arrogant hoodlums who are trying to protect other "ranchers" accuse of poaching!
4
I'm tired of these language games that imply groups of armed men in conflict with the government who tend to be Euro-Amrrican being referred to by th media as ideologues, militia and protestors. This same media implies that unarmed men of color are thugs, terrorists, Un-American and disturbers of the peace. This is the media game that out itself as bigots creating more bigots with its distinctions based on skin color. Stop this. It is dividing and destroying this nation.
6
I resent idiots like this thinking that they can do whatever they want on land owned by the people of the United States. Without boundaries provided by our government, corporations and greedy individuals would have destroyed this country long ago.
4
The only people with a legitimate beef (excuse the pun) about public ownership of lands in the USA are the American Indians, who were the victims of massive land theft, genocide, and treaties broken by the federal government. If anyone should rightfully gain ownership those lands, it should be Native Americans, who were there first. I often hear slavery described as the "original sin" or "worst sin" of the USA, but in truth it was the treatment of our indigenous peoples, who are still treated badly.
7
It is appalling and repugnant that this article does nothing to acknowledge the original "owners" of this land, Native Americans. The west may not have been highly populated before "settlers" appropriated Native lands and the Native Americans were either slaughtered or put on bantustan reservations, but their claims to the land were often acknowledged by the Federal government, which then often reneged on their "treaties" to extract mineral, timber, and other resources. I find it very troubling that the NY Times does not even acknowledge the initial theft of this land. A further affront to most readers sentiments is the reference to these anarchist terrorists is to call them "protesters". They are among the largest recipients of federal welfare money in the form of subsidies for the use of federal lands for grazing, water for irrigation, and protection of their livestock from predators. They are criminals and should be treated as such.
3
Interesting history and nice proposal for a solution, but it leaves unanswered the question about selective law enforcement in the USA. For how long is your government prepared to tolerate this blatantly illegal activity?
73
The duplicity here - as it was with the Freemen standoff in Montana - is almost beyond belief. The common thread is the continuing story of corporate welfare in the American West - under-market grazing fees, under-market water rights, crop subsidies, etc., etc., ad nauseam. And the cry is always the same - "the government is ruining our way of life" - by interrupting the flow of subsidies - when in fact their "way of life" is simply not sustainable unless supported by the American taxpayer. I think we've probably had enough of this nonsense.
138
These people are just ignorant and short sighted, and they must be made to obey the laws for the sake not just of this country but for the future if mankind. Global warming and the great increase of people and people's impact upon nature are driving what is one of the greatest mass extinctions every discovered and it can be mitigated or limited only by selectively not exploiting the natural world in the manner we have for a couple hundred years, now. These people are insisting upon behaving in a manner which may make them some money but the cost is far to great to everyone else to permit.
This is valuable context; thank you.
I was ambivalent about reading it now, however. The time for engaging in thoughtful, informed discourse over a political disagreement is either before the guns come out or after they are put down. As long as extremists can get their way - or even get their debate - by threatening violence, we're only going to have more violence.
Political redress is provided at the voting booth, and for civilization to hold, we all need to be prepared to accept disappointment when our argument doesn't carry the day.
I was ambivalent about reading it now, however. The time for engaging in thoughtful, informed discourse over a political disagreement is either before the guns come out or after they are put down. As long as extremists can get their way - or even get their debate - by threatening violence, we're only going to have more violence.
Political redress is provided at the voting booth, and for civilization to hold, we all need to be prepared to accept disappointment when our argument doesn't carry the day.
3
Aggrieved Americans, whom the gains of globalization have typically passed over, unfortunately, tend to believe in "mythic histories" over "complexities of the past." "Mythic histories" can strangely empower those who perceive themselves to have lost real agency and power on the ground. Politicians exploit these mythic histories as was evidenced by a majority of the current crop of GOP candidates' support for Cliven Bundy and his sons. I am pretty certain that Donald Trump and his ilk will jump into the fray and do some "big" government bashing, laced with hyper nationalistic rhetoric to flame some feelings as we speak. Mythical histories do translate into temporary vote banks for the current brand of cynical politics that dominates America now.
Mix in religious myth as well as western mythologies- grievance cults are nothing new. The South has made a regional religion of victimhood.
The Bundy crew has all kinds of entitlement issues. Ammon Bundy has tied his right to personally profit his own family from public land and has publicly claimed God told him to get involved with the Hammond case. (Even though the Hammonds said to get out of their business). One of the guys at the Nature Refuge id'd himself as "Capt Moroni" - these guys are the same as any other end-time sect- their belief system should not be running American land policy in the West.
Maybe he meant Captain Moron- that would be closer to how I see them.
The Bundy crew has all kinds of entitlement issues. Ammon Bundy has tied his right to personally profit his own family from public land and has publicly claimed God told him to get involved with the Hammond case. (Even though the Hammonds said to get out of their business). One of the guys at the Nature Refuge id'd himself as "Capt Moroni" - these guys are the same as any other end-time sect- their belief system should not be running American land policy in the West.
Maybe he meant Captain Moron- that would be closer to how I see them.
2
Let's call it what it is. It's public land. It's not land that belongs to "the government" or "the Feds." It's mine and yours and theirs, too, and their "armed protest" is outrageous. We have charged our representatives with the protection of that land and its inhabitants, non-human and human. Ms. Langston makes it clear that the former have been in much greater jeopardy over the last century and a half than humans and we should and must remind our representatives, the Federal government, of their duty. We don't negotiate with terrorists, nor do we negotiate with armed bullies. Get 'em off our land.
7
In the fall of 1966, Reies Lopez Tijerina led the occupation of a remote U.S. Forest Service campground in northern New Mexico to publicize claims against federal ownership of former Spanish and Mexican land grants. The group of about two dozen hispanic protesters, including men armed with rifles, "arrested" two forest rangers, "tried" them for trespass, found them guilty, suspended their sentences and sent them fleeing down the deserted highway. The FBI and USFS stood down, deliberately abandoning law enforcement, and the protesters went home. Months later, however, Tijerina and four of his followers were charged with a cloud of federal of crimes. Fifty years is not a long time in the world of law. So will the laws be enforced now, in Oregon?
3
"They felt powerless, hemmed in by policies they had little hand in shaping."
Except, of course, that they should have had exactly the same "hand in shaping" policy as any other American. But as anyone who's ever lived in Western cattle country knows, individual ranchers have had far more influence than other citizens, with below-market fees for public grass, awful mismanagement as BLM range cons looked the other way, locked gates on public roads - talk about entitlement, in the pejorative sense. Their influence drops to half of what it was, but still powerful, and they go all revolutionary.
It goes on, with Bundy the Elder still stiffing the public for a million bucks of fees he won't pay, and a bureaucracy that won't bring the deadbeat to justice.
Except, of course, that they should have had exactly the same "hand in shaping" policy as any other American. But as anyone who's ever lived in Western cattle country knows, individual ranchers have had far more influence than other citizens, with below-market fees for public grass, awful mismanagement as BLM range cons looked the other way, locked gates on public roads - talk about entitlement, in the pejorative sense. Their influence drops to half of what it was, but still powerful, and they go all revolutionary.
It goes on, with Bundy the Elder still stiffing the public for a million bucks of fees he won't pay, and a bureaucracy that won't bring the deadbeat to justice.
5
Thanks for some clarity.
I am confused as to why these folks think they own this land, or are entitled to free use. Coming in with guns is a centuries old tactic that we have moved away from here in the US. The Wild West was a short illusion in our past.
Should the whole US or world change, and many other needs be ignored, to support this illusion?
Most people all over the world have had to change over the centuries and decades, move on. Some do it better than others. And yes, change is painful.
I have Native American heritage and we certainly had to "move on" - there are other ways to fight these battles - I have no sympathy for these ranchers.
I am confused as to why these folks think they own this land, or are entitled to free use. Coming in with guns is a centuries old tactic that we have moved away from here in the US. The Wild West was a short illusion in our past.
Should the whole US or world change, and many other needs be ignored, to support this illusion?
Most people all over the world have had to change over the centuries and decades, move on. Some do it better than others. And yes, change is painful.
I have Native American heritage and we certainly had to "move on" - there are other ways to fight these battles - I have no sympathy for these ranchers.
2
Great article. As is customary, the issues are complex and knotty. Having said that, i wonder if the Bundy family would be embroiled in this if the gov't had made dealt with the father as they should have by making him accountable for his crimes. It seems like he has gotten off scot free. I'm thinking that our tax dollars are being squandered by the likes of Bundy et al in the form of law enforcement in the past and current dispute as well as all the subsidies these yahoos have received over the years. Enough is enough.
Surround the property and cut off all their supplies. Wait them out and then arrest them. Simultaneously, arrest the old man. Let's be rid of these trouble makers.
Surround the property and cut off all their supplies. Wait them out and then arrest them. Simultaneously, arrest the old man. Let's be rid of these trouble makers.
3
Well put Nancy. The actual history there has very little to do with the gripes of these people who are not even from the area. It was also great you brought up Pete French - quite a history there. Cattle grazing itself on public land can, and has done, a ton of damage to native ecosystems. We basically set these animals (who were never here before the ranches) free on land that cannot support them. Then, what the government charges for this privilege is very little, and certainly has never covered the costs of what the animals take from the land. Some call is welfare ranching - and it has been going on for many many decades
4
Which rancher among today's"freedom fighters" in Oregon will become the next Peter French, if they got their way and they bullied the federal government into abandoning its role as the honest broker among all the competing interest groups living in and enjoying the fragile resources of the far west?
Something tells me Ammon Bundy would be thrilled to be sitting next to Sheldon Adelson some day in Las Vegas as one of the kingmaker's of presidential politics. "There goes one of the Bundys, the Koch's of cattle."
Something tells me Ammon Bundy would be thrilled to be sitting next to Sheldon Adelson some day in Las Vegas as one of the kingmaker's of presidential politics. "There goes one of the Bundys, the Koch's of cattle."
We all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the Bundys and their armed minions. I for one thank them for bringing me new knowledge and awareness of the Malheur National Wildlife refuge! Without them I wouldn't know it even existed. Now I have it on my bucket list of spring activities.
That said, it is high time to get these drugstore cowboys off our land and back to where they belong, wherever that is.
I agree that bloodshed is the last thing we want to end this assault. But the rule of law must be applied and they should be given a quiet and clear ultimatum, surrender their firearms, submit to arrest and see their day in court.
Maybe if it is put to them in simple terms that conviction of a felony might prevent them from ever again legally owning a gun, they would see the light and live another day to fondle their weapons.
That said, it is high time to get these drugstore cowboys off our land and back to where they belong, wherever that is.
I agree that bloodshed is the last thing we want to end this assault. But the rule of law must be applied and they should be given a quiet and clear ultimatum, surrender their firearms, submit to arrest and see their day in court.
Maybe if it is put to them in simple terms that conviction of a felony might prevent them from ever again legally owning a gun, they would see the light and live another day to fondle their weapons.
3
An excellent article. The author needn't look far from her office at Michigan Tech to see a similar story. Northern Michigan (where I grew up) was despoiled by the lumber and mining industries decades ago, and never really came out of the Depression. At least until recent times, the Yoopers did not vote for the party of the despoilers. Now, as the end of the road is ever more visible, they too have fantasies of redemption and militias with which to pursue the myths.
2
This actually is a quite cogent depiction of how beneficial governmental action can be, even in aid of private interests. These whining, "victimized" cowboys seem simply to be ignorant of history, political issues, or environmental objectives.
The refuge in Oregon belongs to everyone, just as much as the "Jeff Davis town park" in Oxford MS (if there is one - I'm sure there's such a park somewhere) belongs to everyone. If a group of armed black young men "took over" such a park until it was given to them or their friends or peers, the police response would be easily predictable.
The refuge in Oregon belongs to everyone, just as much as the "Jeff Davis town park" in Oxford MS (if there is one - I'm sure there's such a park somewhere) belongs to everyone. If a group of armed black young men "took over" such a park until it was given to them or their friends or peers, the police response would be easily predictable.
4
It's remarkable how these militia's confuse corporate malfeasance with government repression; it speaks to a lack of education and failure of critical evaluative skills, as well as a misplaced faith in some starry-eyed version of capitalist economies. The stupidity of the American populace has become a firearm pointed at the collective heart of the society. Without clearer-headedness, we will surely dispossess ourselves of the legacy of this nation's founders.
4
The Hammonds were charged with an anti-terror law for doing a back burn on their property that caused less than $1,000 in damage to adjacent Federally managed property. They were doing the back burn to save their livelihood from uncontrolled fires. Keep in mind that their ranching puts food on our tables in addition to theirs.
When the jury reviewed the evidence and dismissed every charge but one, they plead guilty to the one charge and took a deal with the government. But the judge thought the 5 year mandatory minimum was cruel and unusual for such a petty crime and thought the anti-terror charge was absurd, so he gave them a proportional, lesser sentence. Not willing to accept the jury or the judge's finding, the Federal Government reneged on its initial plea deal with the Hammonds and appealed to the notoriously liberal 9th Circuit court to get them thrown in jail for 5 years. And so now they're off to jail, a father in his 70s and his son who's pushing 50. There goes the farm. That's why the Bundys and others are there.
It's funny and sad to see so many liberals get wound up about "injustice" when a jury and judge deliver a finding they don't like. And yet, in a case of an actual injustice like this, where the Government overrides a judge and jury's will, they scream for blood.
Progressives at this point are not acting as good and reasonable citizens. They're acting like a lawless mob. They're forfeiting their bond with the people who protect and feed them.
When the jury reviewed the evidence and dismissed every charge but one, they plead guilty to the one charge and took a deal with the government. But the judge thought the 5 year mandatory minimum was cruel and unusual for such a petty crime and thought the anti-terror charge was absurd, so he gave them a proportional, lesser sentence. Not willing to accept the jury or the judge's finding, the Federal Government reneged on its initial plea deal with the Hammonds and appealed to the notoriously liberal 9th Circuit court to get them thrown in jail for 5 years. And so now they're off to jail, a father in his 70s and his son who's pushing 50. There goes the farm. That's why the Bundys and others are there.
It's funny and sad to see so many liberals get wound up about "injustice" when a jury and judge deliver a finding they don't like. And yet, in a case of an actual injustice like this, where the Government overrides a judge and jury's will, they scream for blood.
Progressives at this point are not acting as good and reasonable citizens. They're acting like a lawless mob. They're forfeiting their bond with the people who protect and feed them.
16
Thanks for reminding us all of some essential context. However, your last paragraph is neither accurate nor fair. "Progressives" as a group are not coterminous with those people whose behavior you describe.
1
In Barry Holsten Lopez's lyrical book, _Of Wolves and Men_ he recounts meeting with all kinds of people, all with different views on wolves. And while he disagreed with those hunters and trappers who looked at wolves as a "resource" like any other animal, he could understand that legitimate arguments could be made for their position.
There was, another kind of person, with disturbing mentality: "It was as though these men had broken down at some point in their lives and begun to fill with bile, and that bile had become an unreasoned hatred of many things. Of laws. Of governments. Of wolves. They hated wolves because--they would struggle to put it into words--because wolves seemed better off than they were. And that seemed perverse. They killed wolves habitually, with a trace of vengeance ... They were often few in number but their voices ... were often the loudest, the ones that set the tone for a grange meeting."
As President Obama yesterday, as my own Congressman Dan Kildee said in one of his presentations, the voices of reason have to get louder, speak out more frequently, counter hysteria with reason at every turn. Thank you for this article; it does exactly that, eloquently.
There was, another kind of person, with disturbing mentality: "It was as though these men had broken down at some point in their lives and begun to fill with bile, and that bile had become an unreasoned hatred of many things. Of laws. Of governments. Of wolves. They hated wolves because--they would struggle to put it into words--because wolves seemed better off than they were. And that seemed perverse. They killed wolves habitually, with a trace of vengeance ... They were often few in number but their voices ... were often the loudest, the ones that set the tone for a grange meeting."
As President Obama yesterday, as my own Congressman Dan Kildee said in one of his presentations, the voices of reason have to get louder, speak out more frequently, counter hysteria with reason at every turn. Thank you for this article; it does exactly that, eloquently.
109
No where in these debates over Western land use is the fact that Native American's "managed" this land for centuries before Western European's showed up. They lived in concert with and respect for the environment, never taking more than they needed and moving when their presence stressed the environment. These carpet baggers from Arizona have no more claim to these lands than someone living in Manhattan and the Federal government should drive them off.
Having lived in Portland for almost 40 years, I can say there are two Oregons, the Blue State Willamette Valley, dominated by Portland, and Red-State rural Oregon.
By and large, it's the educated urban Oregonians in Portland who care most deeply about preserving the ecology of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. We want the coyotes and the egrets to prosper. They don't see the refuge from the point of view of people who make a living by extracting the West's resources directly, by pumping ground water for irrigation, or indirectly through grazing and ranching.
Because the refuge is so remote, it's unlikely most Portlanders will ever visit it. Still, they derive great satisfaction from knowing its there, safe from the predations of farming and ranching.
It would be tragic to see the refuge ruined by this 21st-century land grab.
By and large, it's the educated urban Oregonians in Portland who care most deeply about preserving the ecology of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge. We want the coyotes and the egrets to prosper. They don't see the refuge from the point of view of people who make a living by extracting the West's resources directly, by pumping ground water for irrigation, or indirectly through grazing and ranching.
Because the refuge is so remote, it's unlikely most Portlanders will ever visit it. Still, they derive great satisfaction from knowing its there, safe from the predations of farming and ranching.
It would be tragic to see the refuge ruined by this 21st-century land grab.
Nearly all of the Federal land these seditionists claim should be returned to citizen control has been operating at a loss with the tab picked up by US taxpayers. One reason why it's still valuable is because it's been properly maintained, again, at the expense of US taxpayers. I find it interesting that despite the investment taxpayers have spent in maintaining these lands, these so called patriots never say they're willing to pay for the land and thereby repaying Americans for what we've spent in up keeping them. Instead, it's always give the land to them. Given the monetary investment Americans already have in these lands, that's a major ripoff.
1
Thank you for this article, it is a great counterpoint to the Peter Cashwell article and I agree about the need for better management and sustainable practices in the west. The whole place is engineered and subsidized and with climate change, major changes are already happening and management has to improve or the land will become completely desertified.
The real issue is that the world is evolving into a post-capitalist economic and cultural framework, accelerated by climate change. Ranching and resource extraction/depletion have worked during the hundreds of years of plenty our country has enjoyed, but this won't last forever. Post-capitalism and sustainability go hand in hand, as does diverse community stewardship. The ranchers and others want things to stay the same or double down on some mythic past. We don't have that luxury anymore.
The real issue is that the world is evolving into a post-capitalist economic and cultural framework, accelerated by climate change. Ranching and resource extraction/depletion have worked during the hundreds of years of plenty our country has enjoyed, but this won't last forever. Post-capitalism and sustainability go hand in hand, as does diverse community stewardship. The ranchers and others want things to stay the same or double down on some mythic past. We don't have that luxury anymore.
Once again we have historical fact at odds with anecdotal passion. The "Old West" is an admixture of handed down "true" stories," Hollywood sensationalism, and a delusional faith that its return will bring prosperity and happiness ever after. The reality of unregulated cattle grazing, logging and mining and the consequential environmental damage is well-documented. A brief look at the historical West reveals difficult lives fraught with economic hardship and sometimes violence. The Old West is a place that never was and its return is as mythical as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
In Ohio, an open carry state, police drive up and shoot a 12 year old for carrying a toy gun in 3 seconds, no questions asked. But when white guys with real guns protest outside of a Mosque, they are treated with respect. In another state a mass biker shoot out is met with no police killings.
If armed Native Americans took this Federal facility to protest having their lands forcibly stolen from them, they would already be dead, and these ranchers would celebrate their murder.
Oregon would not exist if the Federal Government had not taken it from Native Americans by force. These violent lunatics, some of whom already survived pointing guns at law enforcement in 2013 have no right to claim these lands.
But white guys can commit crimes with assault weapons with impunity, while unarmed minorities are routinely murdered for offences like driving with a broken tail light.
If armed Native Americans took this Federal facility to protest having their lands forcibly stolen from them, they would already be dead, and these ranchers would celebrate their murder.
Oregon would not exist if the Federal Government had not taken it from Native Americans by force. These violent lunatics, some of whom already survived pointing guns at law enforcement in 2013 have no right to claim these lands.
But white guys can commit crimes with assault weapons with impunity, while unarmed minorities are routinely murdered for offences like driving with a broken tail light.
2
A very helpful background piece. The conflicts in Nevada and Oregon aren't about government abuses; the conflicts would exist no matter how wise and sensitive federal land managers may be. The conflicts are about the less powerful raging against forces they can't control. If the federal government left Oregon tomorrow, the Bundys and the Hammonds would rage against large, out of state ranching interests or water developers or whoever else had the economic and political power to control the land and water in Harney County.
This op ed reminds us that In this part of the world, only two conditions have actually existed: the Old Days, represented by grinding poverty paired with limited government, and the New(er) Days, with at least a sustainable existence paired with a more intrusive government. What has never existed is a prosperous way of life paired with limited government. That's the unicorn. Given their way, these 'patriots' would soon return the land to its overgrazed, barren, economically useless past. That's a pretty high price to pay for some vague notion of liberty.
1
This is a terrific article, but the starting point is European settlement. To me, ranchers are settlers of recent vintage and their current way of life is unsustainable, if externalities were fairly accounted for. Were we starting from scratch, there would be far greater weight given to the trees, birds, and other non-human fauna, not to mention the Native Americans. I doubt that, in a country-wide referendum, the current scheme would be adopted - it's far too great a subsidy for these folks, as photogenic, rugged, etc. as they may be.
Another fine example of the dynamic of rugged individualism: free or almost free resource (land) is seized by a few well-positioned players and others are locked out. Conflict, depredation and poverty follows. Eventually, the civilizing influence of a functioning government steps in and establishes a workable compromise.
Some years later, people who benefit from that compromise begin to decry the oppressive hand of big government, because they can't have the benefits without obligations. They bring up a fairy-tale past, forgetting that the real past brought mostly conflict and misery to their forebears. Ignorant hypocrites.
Some years later, people who benefit from that compromise begin to decry the oppressive hand of big government, because they can't have the benefits without obligations. They bring up a fairy-tale past, forgetting that the real past brought mostly conflict and misery to their forebears. Ignorant hypocrites.
What part of the US Constitution, Article 4, Section 3 do these yahoos who have taken over government buildings not understand?
"The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."
Plain as day, black on white. The US Government can own "territory or other property belonging to the United States."
The Posse Comitatus attitudes of these guys is revolting (literally and figuratively).
"The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."
Plain as day, black on white. The US Government can own "territory or other property belonging to the United States."
The Posse Comitatus attitudes of these guys is revolting (literally and figuratively).
2
It's high time for this civil disobedience to end. They made their point.
Federal authorities need to inform these trespassers that unless they vacate the premises within 24 hours they will be arrested for trespassing. If guns become part of the eviction equation, other charges will be added.
Let's have some rule of law here. Enough is enough.
Federal authorities need to inform these trespassers that unless they vacate the premises within 24 hours they will be arrested for trespassing. If guns become part of the eviction equation, other charges will be added.
Let's have some rule of law here. Enough is enough.
2
Trespassing on government property is a crime. My government should not permit these individuals access on and off the refuge and give them 48 hours to vacate then just seal the area. As far as the ranchers convicted of arson on federal property. The sentences were lenient and didn't follow sentencing guidelines. Is someone investigating the judge and prosecutors?
2
American society is entering a new form of feudalism. The impotent and pathetic display by a few gun nuts in Oregon is symbolic of the much larger issue of the growing impotency of government. At one time, such a display as the one in Oregon would have been dealt with swiftly, bloodshed or not. Thugs brandishing guns with little or no consequence only encourage more of the same. Even the tear-stained President of the United States appears powerless to stop the gun manufacturers from imposing their mindless and violent will on the people as their elected representatives cower behind the masquerade of a blatantly misrepresented Second Amendment. Gun-toting bullies get to swagger in public as they openly display their fire arms. Speaker Ryan and others accuse the president of precisely what they are in fact doing by siding with the gun craze: intimidation. Like the feudal lords of the 11th century, modern citizens will have to strap on body armor to venture out from their homes, and above all, make sure their firearms are fully loaded. We are slipping into barbarism and nothing, NOTHING, seems to be stopping us. Goodbye civilization, nice knowing you.
2
As has been pointed out, many indigenous cultures had no "ownership" concept regarding use of the commons. This refuge was established because the local people had hunted the migrating birds to near extinction. The entire California Central Valley was filled with wildlife until settlers built thousands of levees to isolate useable private patches. So much for "local management."
Have you seen the damage that grazing cattle do to "marginal" land common in Nevada, eastern Oregon, etc., at rents far less than its management and recovery cost? They befoul the water, and decimate the local plants and animals. Not that that matters much more than generating private revenue. I'm waiting for these outlaws to tire of corn chips and, again, put the God-given bounty at risk. The gov'mint can't tell me when to hunt!
The BLM has been experimenting in Nevada with making certain cattle-grazing mudholes off limits. Lo and behold! Beavers reappear, water accumulates, fish, plants and wildlife rebound! We can be certain that commercial interests think more of stripping resources valuable to all for their private use. This was the case in Yosemite Valley, until cattle ranchers were finally driven out.
Some part of the "commons" belong to all living creatures.
Have you seen the damage that grazing cattle do to "marginal" land common in Nevada, eastern Oregon, etc., at rents far less than its management and recovery cost? They befoul the water, and decimate the local plants and animals. Not that that matters much more than generating private revenue. I'm waiting for these outlaws to tire of corn chips and, again, put the God-given bounty at risk. The gov'mint can't tell me when to hunt!
The BLM has been experimenting in Nevada with making certain cattle-grazing mudholes off limits. Lo and behold! Beavers reappear, water accumulates, fish, plants and wildlife rebound! We can be certain that commercial interests think more of stripping resources valuable to all for their private use. This was the case in Yosemite Valley, until cattle ranchers were finally driven out.
Some part of the "commons" belong to all living creatures.
2
The true history of the American West is a long and colorful saga of entrepreneurs exploiting natural resources to the point of their destruction. Timber barons denuded forest slopes, wiping out three quarters of the Pacific salmon habitat in the bargain, ranchers grazed marginal ranges to dust, pelt and feather takers pushed luxuriously endowed species to the brink of extinction, etc.
The only reason the government is involved in managing public lands today is because the practices of private citizens was so overwhelmingly disastrous - not only for the wild creature and their habitats, but for the people of the region who depended on them for their sustenance and livelihood. These homesteaders - and native peoples - had and have little to gain from the profit seekers who've typically controlled and taken the benefits, often with government compliance or outright assistance.
The armed trespassers squatting in Oregon's Wildlife Refuge today are not exactly making the case for why they and their brethren should be granted stewardship of public lands and their threatened resources.
And are they advocating returning public lands to the people? Because that's who owns this land presently - we the people. And at the moment, we're inclined to leave it's management to the folks we elect and hire.
The only reason the government is involved in managing public lands today is because the practices of private citizens was so overwhelmingly disastrous - not only for the wild creature and their habitats, but for the people of the region who depended on them for their sustenance and livelihood. These homesteaders - and native peoples - had and have little to gain from the profit seekers who've typically controlled and taken the benefits, often with government compliance or outright assistance.
The armed trespassers squatting in Oregon's Wildlife Refuge today are not exactly making the case for why they and their brethren should be granted stewardship of public lands and their threatened resources.
And are they advocating returning public lands to the people? Because that's who owns this land presently - we the people. And at the moment, we're inclined to leave it's management to the folks we elect and hire.
4
However, one might explain the plight of the rural ranchers, it has nothing to do with the Federal land management practices; contrary claims are nothing but bull. Let's look at the reservations: they are the largest patches of lands for which all the economic exercise is left to the dwellers of the land. Yet, the reservations are the symbol of poverty and neglect. If the Federal Government withdraws, say, from these grazing lands subsistence ranchers will drive the land to its worst shape ever and blame the Federal Government, again. Plus the Western lands bought and paid for by the Federal Treasury.
Civil disobedience has played a cherished role in creating a more egalitarian society. I think particularly of the suffrage and civil rights movements, both nonviolent on the part of the protesters. The situation in Oregon threatens violence and is inconsistent with American traditions of peaceful protest. I hope these fanatics will take their guns and go home and never return to Oregon. Whether their issue is legitimate or not, the threat of violence will not accomplish their goals.
4
The Sagebrush Rebellion is not new, embedded in a very long history of conflict over range use in the cattle and sheep West. The big acquisitions of territory west of the Mississippi, beginning with the Louisiana purchase, with federal money or conquest, or both, (one can include treaties with tribes here) opened the door to all kinds of land exploitation. Cattle were trailed out of Texas and other places during the Civil War and shortly after as far north as Montana. The open range, as it was called, raised all kinds of conflict across the West, cattlemen versus sheep men, grazers against settlers as the succession of homestead acts went through Congress in the last half of the 19th Century. Until the homestead acts and the railroad and other grants and the establishment of national parks, monuments, etc., use of federal land was by appropriation at the moment. That appropriation had no legal status, still doesn't despite current claims. A prime example was the Johnson County War, often labeled as the last great cattle war. It occurred in the first years of the 20th Century in Johnson County, Wyoming. The big ranchers tried to bring "Texas" gunmen by train to take over Johnson County to combat the "rustlers." who were, in fact, homesteaders cutting up the "open range" under federal law. Same old, same old.
Excellent perspective. But we need to call these folks what they are - selfish, greedy thieves and poachers, not heroes. I own several hundred acres of timberland, plus another several hundred acres of farmland, in Virginia. I make only enough from it to pay the taxes on it, but I'm not complaining. The land is managed (with the welcomed help of federal and state programs) for the benefit of wildlife, conservation and preservation. The land these squatters have stolen is just as much mine - and yours, the public's - as this property that I actually hold title to. My wife and I invested in this land to prevent its development and destruction. It was the right, not necessarily most profitable, thing to do. The public land in the west is just as much an investment in this nation's future, and in fact, because of the old real estate rubric of "land, they aren't making any more of it," is probably one of our country's best investments. These bullies are nothing more than western examples of the strutting, swaggering Tea Party "ain't nobody gonna tell me what to do" folks I frequently encounter in backwoods Virginia, uneducated and unable to function in modern society. My suggestion: Cordon them off, prevent their resupply, jam their cellphone signals, cut electricity (and hence, their water and eventually, heat) and then, when they slither out, prosecute and jail them.
1
The picture that I saw on television was this big group of protesters all waving American flags as if they some how represented "America," or American values. Their appearance was from grade B western movies with the cowboy hats and side arms.
I certainly believe they have every right to protest and march around creating all the needed buzz every protest needs, but once they start doing illegal things like taking over a federal facility, it's time to stop them. It provocation. They want mass arrests and perhaps even violence, all while waving the American flag in our faces.
They should be, as quietly as possible, ostracized and ignored, and arrested and tried as they leave the compound. Yes, their lifestyle, is long dead, along with buffalo hunting and buggy whip manufacturing, and it's never coming back.
This is really a cultural protest against modernity as much as wanting free stuff from the federal government, (all of us). In the Middle East a good part of the population walks around wearing the garb of medieval Bedouins, here we have the cowboy hats and boots. They all seem petulant, even pathetic.
I certainly believe they have every right to protest and march around creating all the needed buzz every protest needs, but once they start doing illegal things like taking over a federal facility, it's time to stop them. It provocation. They want mass arrests and perhaps even violence, all while waving the American flag in our faces.
They should be, as quietly as possible, ostracized and ignored, and arrested and tried as they leave the compound. Yes, their lifestyle, is long dead, along with buffalo hunting and buggy whip manufacturing, and it's never coming back.
This is really a cultural protest against modernity as much as wanting free stuff from the federal government, (all of us). In the Middle East a good part of the population walks around wearing the garb of medieval Bedouins, here we have the cowboy hats and boots. They all seem petulant, even pathetic.
1
If a private party bought Malheur, it would become closed to everyone else and it certainly would not be maintained as a cheap source of grazing land for ranchers. What the ranchers actually want is public ownership with prerogatives for people like themselves to obtain private benefits at the expense of wilderness and other public enjoyment or use of the land. It's hard when your way of life is threatened by the future. Just ask steelworkers from my home town of Pittsburgh. But the demand for special treatment at the expense of the rest of us (I've been to Oregon as a tourist and enjoyed the land) rests on a presumption of entitlement that is hard to sympathize with, especially in light of just how destructive grazing is in the arid climate of the western United States.
This article confirms what I suspected. Our federal government only owns and manages this land because private owners almost destroyed it. Don't they also know that if the federal government did not own and manage it, they would have been shot on sight by the private owners for criminal trespass and if they survived, promptly arrested, jailed and convicted. The feds are pussycats when it comes to protecting public property compared to most private property owners, especially those land, cattle, oil and water "barons" with great wealth and influence. If these cowboys want to take on "the establishment" they should show real courage and take on the barons, not the bureaucrats.
The story of the development of America has too often been the story of selfish exploitation of the land, air and water by the few at the expense of the many. The great north woods of Paul Bunyan - gone, clear cut for railroads, among others. The waving grasslands of the plains - gone, turned into farms, now too often mega farms. The water of the West, once teaming with salmon - largely gone, too often wastefully used by agriculture, industry and municipalities that pay a fraction of its true worth.
When I hear the calls for We the People to control the resources of the nation, I hear selfishness and greed much more than respect for the true value of our shared heritage. When I hear the calls for Local Control, I hear those who would exploit our nation's resources for their personal and corporate profit hoping for more pliable and easily intimidated regulators. I am from Utah. On my most recent trip there (last week), the news story was about a county commissioner who was jailed for 10 days for leading a group of "activists" on ATVs into a federally protected area, forever destroying some of our national heritage so they could exert local control to carelessly drive where they want. Thugs with guns. Thugs on ATVs.
Change has always come and will always come. The question is how. Intelligently or thoughtlessly? Respectfully or greedily? For the benefit of all or the benefit of a few?
When I hear the calls for We the People to control the resources of the nation, I hear selfishness and greed much more than respect for the true value of our shared heritage. When I hear the calls for Local Control, I hear those who would exploit our nation's resources for their personal and corporate profit hoping for more pliable and easily intimidated regulators. I am from Utah. On my most recent trip there (last week), the news story was about a county commissioner who was jailed for 10 days for leading a group of "activists" on ATVs into a federally protected area, forever destroying some of our national heritage so they could exert local control to carelessly drive where they want. Thugs with guns. Thugs on ATVs.
Change has always come and will always come. The question is how. Intelligently or thoughtlessly? Respectfully or greedily? For the benefit of all or the benefit of a few?
1
Malhuer National Wildlife Refuge and the abutting Steens Mountain Management and Protection Area, headwaters of the Blitzen river which feeds the refuge, are both examples of years of bipartisan efforts by stakeholders representing all factions of users of public lands. It has not been an easy road, and their are still conflicts, but these lands are examples of the outcomes that can be achieved when people come together and work out their differences.
A visit to this area reveals stunning opportunities to view wildlife, glaciated canyons, wild horses, and yes, grazing cattle.
That outside people would come to this area and attempt to use it as an example of government overreach is an affront and an insult to those that have worked together for so many years to develop public property to benefit all users.
Any person that in anyway supports or legitimizes the armed takeover of the headquarters of Malhuer refuge is simply misinformed, ignorant, and wrong.
We Oregonians want these terrorists out of our state!
A visit to this area reveals stunning opportunities to view wildlife, glaciated canyons, wild horses, and yes, grazing cattle.
That outside people would come to this area and attempt to use it as an example of government overreach is an affront and an insult to those that have worked together for so many years to develop public property to benefit all users.
Any person that in anyway supports or legitimizes the armed takeover of the headquarters of Malhuer refuge is simply misinformed, ignorant, and wrong.
We Oregonians want these terrorists out of our state!
These folks are not anarchists. They have a legitimate grievance and backing by the Constitution (Article 1, section 8:17). It is a shame that so many are so ready to permit the federal government to overreach its Constitutional Authority by using non-elected regulators to control so much of American life. The federal government should spend our money and efforts on the things it is supposed to do, like protecting the rights of citizens, like by protecting the nation's borders, not usurping power to infringe on rights of citizens. What is happening in Oregon may have historic connections, but it also has connections to the Constitution, which specifically forbids the federal government from doing what it is and has been doing. Is ignorance going to lead the USA to tyranny or are folks going to learn what it means to be a citizen of what was an exceptional nation founded upon exceptional ideas.
If they have a legitimate grievance then, by definition, the law is on their side...correct?
The fact that they took the law into their own hands instead of peacefully petitioning our government for satisfaction shows how illegal their behavior really is.
They're old white and rightist and they just hate paying for things.
The fact that they took the law into their own hands instead of peacefully petitioning our government for satisfaction shows how illegal their behavior really is.
They're old white and rightist and they just hate paying for things.
4
In 1492 Europe had great forests which quickly reclaimed land not remaining in cultivation, with big predators in abundance, and nature was largely a huge obstacle to human endeavors. Today, those forests are mostly gone as are the big predators and man's works pretty much make nature no significant challenge to man's endeavors. In the 19th century when the U.S. was trying to secure control over all the lands within it's borders and using natural resources to fuel it's growth and satisfaction of growing internal markets including big industries need for resources, the U.S. encouraged people to exploit the lands not owned by anyone. This resulted in big efforts to exploit the land without regard for preservation but by the end of the century it was clear that continuing this policy would destroy the natural environment forever. A lot of people living in the wide open spaces have no prospects of prosperity unless they exploit the public lands as was encouraged one hundred and fifty years, ago, and they have the mind set of Europeans in the late Medieval period which saw nature as a vast obstacle to human endeavors. These people are outsiders in the modern world and they will destroy the environment and leave a wasteland if allowed to do so.
Thank you Nancy Langston. Both sides traffic in sound bites about what is really a very complex situation, one repeated all over the west these days. It's nice to get a more thoughtful analysis.
What the BLM and other federal land management agencies are tasked with is daunting: a fundamental transformation of how land is managed in the west. And they work hard at that, generally developing their management plans through complex collaborative processes that try to take everyone's concerns into account.
Why is this happening? Because the country as a whole, which "owns" these lands, has evolving priorities for their use. The west was once viewed by almost everyone as a sort of wasteland, best used by extracting and selling its "resources." That's changed, with other values like environmental and habitat protection and recreation becoming more important.
Most ranchers and other "locals" have accepted the necessity of this transformation and, perhaps a bit grudgingly, have done their best to participate in good faith, advocating for their concerns, contributing their knowledge and largely accepting and adapting to the results.
But of course if the federal land managers are doing their job there will be people at the extremes on both sides who are unhappy. Environmentalists have been known to take the law into there own hands. Ranchers too, as we see now.
What we need is reasoned discussion in the middle as we fashion better ways of managing the public lands of the west.
What the BLM and other federal land management agencies are tasked with is daunting: a fundamental transformation of how land is managed in the west. And they work hard at that, generally developing their management plans through complex collaborative processes that try to take everyone's concerns into account.
Why is this happening? Because the country as a whole, which "owns" these lands, has evolving priorities for their use. The west was once viewed by almost everyone as a sort of wasteland, best used by extracting and selling its "resources." That's changed, with other values like environmental and habitat protection and recreation becoming more important.
Most ranchers and other "locals" have accepted the necessity of this transformation and, perhaps a bit grudgingly, have done their best to participate in good faith, advocating for their concerns, contributing their knowledge and largely accepting and adapting to the results.
But of course if the federal land managers are doing their job there will be people at the extremes on both sides who are unhappy. Environmentalists have been known to take the law into there own hands. Ranchers too, as we see now.
What we need is reasoned discussion in the middle as we fashion better ways of managing the public lands of the west.
This is an extremely valuable column because it gets right to the heart of much of what has gone wrong with the United States - our collective and various myths about ourselves. Western ranchers have long believed in the myth of their "rugged individualism", but, as this column reveals, the reality was far different.
A similar myth can be found among many white people across the Old Confederacy. This is that their states thrive the less the federal or state governments are involved. These states have policies that are anti-union, bad for the environment, and against regulation of any kind for anything. Their myth is exposed because almost all of them get more back in federal taxes than they send in. As a Californian, I'm well aware that some of my federal taxes are used to support "anti-gubmint" folks in places like Mississippi. If they had to live on their own dime, their myth would be exposed. Of course, many of these people also push the myth that the Civil War had almost nothing to do with slavery.
I'm 63, and remember being exposed to America's myths in unforgettable films like "Red River" and "How the West Was Won", in which I rooted for the heroic wagon trains bringing civilization across the plains and fighting off the attack of "savages".
Myths are wonderful stories, but they must be recognized as stories, and not as reality. This is an extremely valuable column, but I fear that the people who really need to read it won't even be aware that it exists.
A similar myth can be found among many white people across the Old Confederacy. This is that their states thrive the less the federal or state governments are involved. These states have policies that are anti-union, bad for the environment, and against regulation of any kind for anything. Their myth is exposed because almost all of them get more back in federal taxes than they send in. As a Californian, I'm well aware that some of my federal taxes are used to support "anti-gubmint" folks in places like Mississippi. If they had to live on their own dime, their myth would be exposed. Of course, many of these people also push the myth that the Civil War had almost nothing to do with slavery.
I'm 63, and remember being exposed to America's myths in unforgettable films like "Red River" and "How the West Was Won", in which I rooted for the heroic wagon trains bringing civilization across the plains and fighting off the attack of "savages".
Myths are wonderful stories, but they must be recognized as stories, and not as reality. This is an extremely valuable column, but I fear that the people who really need to read it won't even be aware that it exists.
3
When governments own land, politics rather than logic determines the land's use. The concept of eminent domain is a stick of dynamite waiting to explode. No better is the concept of government owning and leasing land or rights (water, mineral, etc.) to certain people whereby politics will always play a role in determing who gets to use the land or rights. If the federal government sold all of its real estate and used the proceeds to pay down the national debt, America would be a far more peaceful and prosperous nation, and the national treasures like Yosemite, the Grand Canyon, etc., would be far safer from exploitation with control in the hands of self-serving politicians and bureaucrats.
I first saw Malheur in 1978, while attending Reed College in Portland Oregon. My senior biology thesis involved researching 50 years of population data for many species of waterfowl that nested there. What a magnificent place, perhaps the largest freshwater marsh in America. I got most of my data from the Malheur Field Center, a research center at the refuge. At the time it was run by biologist Denzel Ferguson, who later authored "Sacred Cows at the Public Trough" (1983), a critique of cattle ranching. Harney County was struggling with the drastic reduction in grazing on the refuge, and the ranchers were very bitter. I could see why - after driving for hours east across a hundred miles of arid sagebrush which could only support 1 cow per 20 acres, I drove onto the refuge through lush green grass almost head high. Ferguson was the most outspoken critic in the region of the current ranching practices and related environmental destruction. He and his wife suffered through years of fairly constant death threats, and finally quit the Refuge job. Apparently things haven't changed much.
You can't exaggerate what a unique ecological treasure Malheur is, especially in the remote arid high desert of Oregon. The lumber mill in Burns closed decades ago, leaving few jobs in town. The refuge is an economic development engine in a region which has very few, attracting well-heeled eco-tourists from around the world. I am not sure the Bundy message will endure.
You can't exaggerate what a unique ecological treasure Malheur is, especially in the remote arid high desert of Oregon. The lumber mill in Burns closed decades ago, leaving few jobs in town. The refuge is an economic development engine in a region which has very few, attracting well-heeled eco-tourists from around the world. I am not sure the Bundy message will endure.
2
That Malheur National Refuge belongs to the American people, just as do the national parks, monuments and refuges in other parts of the country. No citizen who pays federal taxes and votes for representation in Washington should tolerate the unlawful commandeering of any facility that belongs to the people.
We should demand that our government remove the occupiers as swiftly and peacefully as possible but forcefully if rational negotiation fails to remove the lawless occupiers who presume that their interests and ideologies override the national public interest. The occupiers are not even local protesters. They represent an extortionist family that feels comfortable feeding at the public trough while threatening the public that feeds it.
Personally, I am fed up with the handful of angry anarchists who put their own private interests, preferences and prejudices above an entire country of lawful citizens. Do as you like with your own land, Bundy family. As for the nation's treasure, who do you think you are?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
We should demand that our government remove the occupiers as swiftly and peacefully as possible but forcefully if rational negotiation fails to remove the lawless occupiers who presume that their interests and ideologies override the national public interest. The occupiers are not even local protesters. They represent an extortionist family that feels comfortable feeding at the public trough while threatening the public that feeds it.
Personally, I am fed up with the handful of angry anarchists who put their own private interests, preferences and prejudices above an entire country of lawful citizens. Do as you like with your own land, Bundy family. As for the nation's treasure, who do you think you are?
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
A couple of posts below point out that Eastern Oregon is mostly just chaparral and semi-arid desert. Not a great place to ranch, and the same goes for a lot of the 'farmland' in the San Joaquin Valley here in California. These pursuits only become viable businesses when assisted by water brought in by government projects, along with erosion and fire prevention measures, which are mostly conducted by government agencies at taxpayer expense. They sign leases to use the land for a reasonable price. Why these 'rugged individualists' persist in blaming the government for responsibly managing our (taxpayers') land is a mystery.
4
Without being propped up by the federal government, no one could possibly make any money grazing cattle in such an arid and remote place as southeastern Oregon. Therefore, there is a very simple solution to resolving the conflicts over management of federal grazing land throughout the west: end federal cattle and irrigation subsidies. Then watch all the welfare ranchers pack up and leave and the land and streams returned to their original and rightful inhabitants: fish and wildlife. An added benefit would be the quantum increase in the price of beef. A concomitant decease in beef consumption would result in improved human health and a decrease in greenhouse gas emissions. And ranchers would get their wish: independence from government involvement in their lives.
5
In 1794 George Washington marched nearly 13,000 militia men west to put down the Whiskey Rebellion, an action that had wide popular support. After the rebellion collapsed, a Federal grand jury indicted twenty four of the rebellion's leadership for high treason. Only two of those were convicted, and they were pardoned by Washington from their sentences to hang, but the point was made - insurrection is treason.
The "whiskey tax" was repealed when Jefferson came to power after the second democratic and orderly transition under our Constitution. This is the model that we should follow, if we are to honor that Constitution - if you don't like a law, work to change it by legal means. We should remember that there is only one crime defined in the Constitution - "Treason against the United States shall consist only of levying War against them."
The Bundys and their affiliates are as guilty of treason as any confederate ever was, as guilty as John Brown was. Taking up arms against the government, seizing government property by force is not only illegal, it's treasonous.
The "whiskey tax" was repealed when Jefferson came to power after the second democratic and orderly transition under our Constitution. This is the model that we should follow, if we are to honor that Constitution - if you don't like a law, work to change it by legal means. We should remember that there is only one crime defined in the Constitution - "Treason against the United States shall consist only of levying War against them."
The Bundys and their affiliates are as guilty of treason as any confederate ever was, as guilty as John Brown was. Taking up arms against the government, seizing government property by force is not only illegal, it's treasonous.
3
Balderdash! There is no comparison. The Whiskey Rebellion involved violence by the rebels, even killing a government official, before Washington sent troops. There has been no violence by the Oregon protesters. Should we call up military forces to suppress such protesters as Black Lives Matter and Occupy Wall Street, or student free-speech protesters when they invade government facilities? If you want to honor the Constitution, you would repeal it for being a cause of violence, or add a clause prohibiting the government agents from initiating force except in self-defense when physically attacked. For the logic of my position, see Lysander Spooner's essay, NO TREASON; THE CONSTITUTION OF NO AUTHORITY.
Langston's background piece is an excellent, badly needed elucidation of the context for the present situation.
That Teddy Roosevelt's designation of Malheur Lake as a wildlife refuge was not supported by Congress is similar to Bill Clinton's use of the Antiquities Act in his last days as president and the Bureau of Land Management's poor follow-through as the designated manager of the resulting national monuments. In the case of Escalante-Grand Staircase, management was split between two state BLM offices in Utah and Arizona resulting in uncoordinated planning and visitor services. In BLM's defense, the agency did not have proper budget support, but also did not understand management of national monuments. The incoming Bush administration created political patronage fiefdoms out of BLM offices and the Obama administration dropped the ball by leaving the Bush appointees and insular culture in place for the first year and a half of his administration.
Federal agencies are easy targets for angry people when they repeatedly cannot seem to get out of their own way.
That Teddy Roosevelt's designation of Malheur Lake as a wildlife refuge was not supported by Congress is similar to Bill Clinton's use of the Antiquities Act in his last days as president and the Bureau of Land Management's poor follow-through as the designated manager of the resulting national monuments. In the case of Escalante-Grand Staircase, management was split between two state BLM offices in Utah and Arizona resulting in uncoordinated planning and visitor services. In BLM's defense, the agency did not have proper budget support, but also did not understand management of national monuments. The incoming Bush administration created political patronage fiefdoms out of BLM offices and the Obama administration dropped the ball by leaving the Bush appointees and insular culture in place for the first year and a half of his administration.
Federal agencies are easy targets for angry people when they repeatedly cannot seem to get out of their own way.
2
Although I own some of it, I've always been queasy about private property. The land of western Oregon (like the rest of the Americas) "belonged" to Tellus Mater or Mother Nature for eons before the arrival of the first people about 12,000 years ago. For the past few thousand years, up until about the Civil War, native Americans lived on the land without needing to own it. Then armed invaders of European descent forcibly seized the the territory and privatized it, to the benefit of a very few wealthy and influential individuals. That's when ecological exploitation began.
Although the federal government was behind the seizure, it eventually transitioned into a more beneficial role, through the efforts of People like John Muir, Teddy Rosevelt, Aldo Leopold, and many others. Today, federal ownership is a good thing, by and large, because it preserves the land for future Americans as well as for the natural world. Careful and intelligent management can prevent degradation into wasteland.
Between my "property" on Lake Huron and the shoreline there is a 66 foot public easement. I'm good with that. I didn't invent Lake Huron. I want other people to know it and love it, and then help care for it.
Although the federal government was behind the seizure, it eventually transitioned into a more beneficial role, through the efforts of People like John Muir, Teddy Rosevelt, Aldo Leopold, and many others. Today, federal ownership is a good thing, by and large, because it preserves the land for future Americans as well as for the natural world. Careful and intelligent management can prevent degradation into wasteland.
Between my "property" on Lake Huron and the shoreline there is a 66 foot public easement. I'm good with that. I didn't invent Lake Huron. I want other people to know it and love it, and then help care for it.
93
I find it surprising that anyone can say that "the West won't be won by ideologues brandishing weapons"....but isn't that how the West was won originally?
20
Perhaps the NY Times should offer a complimentary home delivery subscription to the Malheur NWR so that the Bundy's have something to read during what most likely is an incredibly boring occupation.
Thanks for the very informative article...
Thanks for the very informative article...
1
This is not unlike the Native American occupation of Alcatraz many decades ago. There may be legitimate grievances but occupying federal property isn't the right approach.
People generally don't like change, especially when it adversely affects their livelihood. It's also worth examining the Hammond case, which precipitated the occupation. I know the NYT thinks prosecutorial overreach is rampant and mandatory minimum sentences are frequently unfair. The Hammond situation would be a good case for the NYT to investigate and report on both issues.
People generally don't like change, especially when it adversely affects their livelihood. It's also worth examining the Hammond case, which precipitated the occupation. I know the NYT thinks prosecutorial overreach is rampant and mandatory minimum sentences are frequently unfair. The Hammond situation would be a good case for the NYT to investigate and report on both issues.
Seal them off and leave them. Possibly they'll start fighting among themselves and shoot each other.
1
This Bundy guy keeps talking about 'honoring the Constitution'.
There is nothing in the Constitution that even arguably touches on the 'rights' he infers.
Why are journalists so inept?
I have not heard one of them pointedly ask: ' What language in the Constitution are you relying on?'
There is nothing in the Constitution that even arguably touches on the 'rights' he infers.
Why are journalists so inept?
I have not heard one of them pointedly ask: ' What language in the Constitution are you relying on?'
1
"The West won't be won by ideologues brandishing guns"? Actually, that is exactly how the West was won, but let that pass.
What I find exasperating about this story is the complete failure of the NYT to clarify the issues. After reading all the fluff, I still have only the dimmest idea as to what the conflict is actually about. The NYT seems to take the view that the protesters are right-wingers, but some of their beliefs sound just like Gerrard Winstanley's "Diggers" in seventeenth-century England (who have been seen as proto-communists). Like the Diggers, the Bundyites seem to view the Earth as a common treasury for all (common land, not enclosures). On the other hand, they also want to enclose a national park. So I am confused. It doesn't help to ask (as NYT recently did) "what if they were Muslims?" That is a total red herring intended solely to discredit the protesters and make a complex issue fit a simple cookie cutter mould (simple for NYT anyway). A better analogy (if one were needed) would be with Native American or Canadian First Nations land claims. The Ontario Six Nations occupied a provincial park (Ipperwash) in the 1990s and in the ensuing confrontation one First Nations occupier (Dudley George) was shot dead. Public opinion quickly rallied behind the occupiers and the park is still in their hands more than 20 years later. Moral of story: if there is a battle, whoever wins it will lose the war.
What I find exasperating about this story is the complete failure of the NYT to clarify the issues. After reading all the fluff, I still have only the dimmest idea as to what the conflict is actually about. The NYT seems to take the view that the protesters are right-wingers, but some of their beliefs sound just like Gerrard Winstanley's "Diggers" in seventeenth-century England (who have been seen as proto-communists). Like the Diggers, the Bundyites seem to view the Earth as a common treasury for all (common land, not enclosures). On the other hand, they also want to enclose a national park. So I am confused. It doesn't help to ask (as NYT recently did) "what if they were Muslims?" That is a total red herring intended solely to discredit the protesters and make a complex issue fit a simple cookie cutter mould (simple for NYT anyway). A better analogy (if one were needed) would be with Native American or Canadian First Nations land claims. The Ontario Six Nations occupied a provincial park (Ipperwash) in the 1990s and in the ensuing confrontation one First Nations occupier (Dudley George) was shot dead. Public opinion quickly rallied behind the occupiers and the park is still in their hands more than 20 years later. Moral of story: if there is a battle, whoever wins it will lose the war.
This history was unknown to me and, I'm quite sure nearly everyone else. It is hugely informative to the present situation.
I am gratified at the manner in which law enforcement is handling this. A slow walk when there is no risk to anyone's safety is entirely appropriate. The question should not be "What would the officials do if these offenders were Black or Muslim?" The question should be "Why doesn't law enforcement treat all such situations in which there is no imminent harm to any person like this?" They're gonna get these jamokes in the end. What matter is it if it takes a little extra time and NOBODY GETS HURT?
I am gratified at the manner in which law enforcement is handling this. A slow walk when there is no risk to anyone's safety is entirely appropriate. The question should not be "What would the officials do if these offenders were Black or Muslim?" The question should be "Why doesn't law enforcement treat all such situations in which there is no imminent harm to any person like this?" They're gonna get these jamokes in the end. What matter is it if it takes a little extra time and NOBODY GETS HURT?
1
This excellent piece slides by an important aspect of the confrontation. The troublemakers seem, according to news reports, to be almost entirely outsiders like Mr. Bundy. It is entirely possible that the locals are perfectly aware of their historical context and perfectly willing to work with the federal government to improve their lives. But Bundy and his followers know how to manipulate the media and they get all the attention while nobody pays any attention to the county sheriff who keeps asking those people to go home.
Yet again, we are reminded of the tremendous foresight shown by President Theodore Roosevelt, with his sterling legacy of wilderness protection. Like lots of Americans, I had never heard of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge until Bundy and his band of insurrectionists took it over for their personal use. I am relieved that the federal government has handled this, so far, without loss of life, but this country will be the loser if Bundy Junior is allowed to walk away and be seen as a winner. His dad, Cliven Bundy was seen as a winner by too many people. Cliven Bundy still owes grazing fees to the people of this country. He refuses to pay and he gets away with it. That is the perception. After he and his gang pointed guns at law enforcement officers, nobody got arrested.
One benefit of Bundy wasting our government's time and money, is that after he and his ilk have slunk away, lots of new visitors will have heard about Malheur Lake, and will come to enjoy the beauty. Most local people there will continue to benefit from that visitation and support the refuge.
One benefit of Bundy wasting our government's time and money, is that after he and his ilk have slunk away, lots of new visitors will have heard about Malheur Lake, and will come to enjoy the beauty. Most local people there will continue to benefit from that visitation and support the refuge.
There is only one rightful solution to this problem of suspected overreach of the federal government. Return the land to its owner; the Indian tribes. They know how to conserve and preserve.
Nancy Langston shows us the truth about past land use by private interests, which surely doesn't match the mythic picture Ammon Bundy et al imagine when they speak of "returning the land to ranchers and local governments". These lands belonged to Native Americans for thousands of years before the lands were taken from them. Since then, the only owner has been the Federal government, which did much to enable and subsidize its settlement, including a big hand in nearly exterminating the Natives.
These 100s of millions of acres of public lands are owned by ALL American citizens; and we all have a say in their management through our reps and the executive's agencies (BLM, NFS, FWS, etc.). Every wildlife refuge, national forest/park/seashore/etc has a "management plan" crafted by the unit manager with a well defined and understood public process and outreach to local stakeholders, including state and local governments, business, non-profits and citizens at large. These plans must in the end adhere to legislative law and agency policies based upon that law, and the agencies do as much as they can within those constraints to balance all interests.
I may never go to Malheur NWR, but I support its existence and mission as a citizen and a taxpayer. The President should cordon the place off and starve the seditious, gun-toting occupiers out. I would further suggest that THEY have their guns taken away and be put on a watch list to ensure they can't acquire more in the future.
These 100s of millions of acres of public lands are owned by ALL American citizens; and we all have a say in their management through our reps and the executive's agencies (BLM, NFS, FWS, etc.). Every wildlife refuge, national forest/park/seashore/etc has a "management plan" crafted by the unit manager with a well defined and understood public process and outreach to local stakeholders, including state and local governments, business, non-profits and citizens at large. These plans must in the end adhere to legislative law and agency policies based upon that law, and the agencies do as much as they can within those constraints to balance all interests.
I may never go to Malheur NWR, but I support its existence and mission as a citizen and a taxpayer. The President should cordon the place off and starve the seditious, gun-toting occupiers out. I would further suggest that THEY have their guns taken away and be put on a watch list to ensure they can't acquire more in the future.
Thanks to NYT and Ms. Langston for a great intro to the issues, and citing the 2013 Refuge planning process as the solution towards a sustainable future, which is what's needed. The past was anything but sustainable for the vast majority of private landowners, who had incentives to put their own economic health ahead of ecological health and no ecological health management requirements on their land (an egregious gap in setting up private parties to sustainably manage their land). Humanity has long struggled with how to manage our commons - whether oceans, atmospheres, government land, wildlife, etc - for long-term health. Some right-wing economists even argued we should privatize wildlife to give incentives to large landowners to protect it better. Absurd solution compared to thoughtful, collaborative planning with all stakeholders. Agree with J. Stewart on swift justice for the Refuge occupiers - in my view they can peacefully submit to authorities and be guilty of trespassing or something small, or if they violently defend themselves they are guilty of treason.
The refuge is located in one the dryer climates of the nation,especially during the summer.So that no matter whether it was legal or not,the fire the rancher and son set,which then spread and became a 140 acre wildfire,which probably threatened other property,suggests they're too stupid to be allowed to go free in this area.The photos with this story show the recent snow that fell in the region recently,providing some relief to it's worst drought in decades,and where a year ago there was no snow.Because of the relative dryness even with normal precip,it's only by limiting how much grazing,and where,that each ranch can do that allows them to exist.Which is why these outsider protesters with no understanding of this region's climate,should end their occupation and go home.
I am fortunate to be able to look out of my eastern facing windows at a spectacular scene-the Lone Peak Wilderness Area, just minutes from my home, with its 11,000 foot reach. If the federally managed and protected lands were to be ceded to the western states, what would become of them? I believe the lands would return to the poor conditions exhibited prior to effective management due to lack of proper management by the states. These states have little revenue to spend on management that the federal government is able to spend. The end result could be a massive "fire sale" to the highest "connected" bidder with any access to former federal lands by the general public prohibited or curtailed.
103
What a magisterial overview of the history and the facts of an admittedly complex situation. Would that every op-ed writer could bolster their argument(s) with half as much historical knowledge and rationality! This editorial justifies an award for its reasonableness and sobriety.
20
I'm a welfare cowboy
I strap on my gun and take what I want
Then drink whiskey till noon at the local restaurant
I'm a welfare cowboy
Everything under the sun belongs to me
So I can use it without paying. It's free
I'm a welfare cowboy
The government owes me a living it's in the constitution you know
Then I'll play with my horse at the rodeo
I'm a welfare cowboy
I'd graze my cows on the grass in Central Park
And drink whiskey till I'm drunk as a skunk in the dark
I'm a welfare cowboy
All of the land belongs to me
I'd shoot my guns in the air and be wild and free
I'm a welfare cowboy
Don't be surprised if my cows are in your front yard
It's part of the west so I'll play the "freedom" card
I'm a welfare cowboy
Take my gun from my cold dead hand
After I'm done destroying the beauty of this great great land
I'm a welfare cowboy
The good news is that I'm not black
So the local police won't shoot me like a terrorist or thug in the back
I'm a welfare cowboys
I strap on my gun and take what I want
Then drink whiskey till noon at the local restaurant
I'm a welfare cowboy
Everything under the sun belongs to me
So I can use it without paying. It's free
I'm a welfare cowboy
The government owes me a living it's in the constitution you know
Then I'll play with my horse at the rodeo
I'm a welfare cowboy
I'd graze my cows on the grass in Central Park
And drink whiskey till I'm drunk as a skunk in the dark
I'm a welfare cowboy
All of the land belongs to me
I'd shoot my guns in the air and be wild and free
I'm a welfare cowboy
Don't be surprised if my cows are in your front yard
It's part of the west so I'll play the "freedom" card
I'm a welfare cowboy
Take my gun from my cold dead hand
After I'm done destroying the beauty of this great great land
I'm a welfare cowboy
The good news is that I'm not black
So the local police won't shoot me like a terrorist or thug in the back
I'm a welfare cowboys
36
Well Done! Spot On!!
I give it a 45...great lyrics; but with no melody or beat, you can't dance to it.
1
This militia's mindset is emblematic of many sectors who live in delusion and denial regarding how the world is changing. Earth to militias: the "free range" is indeed a mythic thing of the past, population growth will have tripled by the time their children are their age. Living in this denial, and creating false demons in federal management and environmentalists will only hasten the disintegration of any remnant of "wild lands" we can expect to have in the near future.
14
Renegade and violent ranchers versus everyone else in the territory is the story line of almost every Western I’ve ever seen in film: Shane, The Violent Men, there’s even a song about it in the musical Oklahoma, “The Farmer and the Cowman.” Since there is no shortage of beef in America, clearly there is no shortage of cows, but just a handful of cattle owners who through the centuries either never bought enough of their own land – in other words, failed cattlemen who continue to want government welfare while cursing the same government that forces them to move into the 21st century. I have no sympathy. Tell these losers to get their heads and their guns out of the past. If the job is obsolete, so be it – move on. But I’ll be damned if we should be held hostage to the same backwards mentality that we’re battling overseas. Maybe we should offer these clowns a free trip to Afghanistan, where there’s plenty of dessert for them to lay claim to – I’d be more than happy to contribute my tax dollars to getting them and their longhorns on to the next garbage barge shipping out.
5
Ah, the joys of American gun culture.
This is armed insurrection against the state. People engaged in such are usually dubbed "traitors" engaged in "treason."
But, no, here they called "protestors" or even "patriots."
That's how twisted the mindset of the gundamentalists has become: it is patriotic to take up arms against the duly elected government of your country.
This is armed insurrection against the state. People engaged in such are usually dubbed "traitors" engaged in "treason."
But, no, here they called "protestors" or even "patriots."
That's how twisted the mindset of the gundamentalists has become: it is patriotic to take up arms against the duly elected government of your country.
12
No one I know (ok, small sample) is eating red meat anymore. Someone should mention to the ranchers that running birding tours might be a good new business direction.
2
Republicans today unfortunately live in a world of fantasy. "Everything" in the past was wonderful, the government causes every problem and climate change and George Bushes disastrous presidency doesn't exist. It is so frustrating! I know these people and they are angry, at Obama, Muslims, Mexicans, uppity women, everything is everybody else's fault. They can't be reasoned with. And the republican candidates are capitalizing this by stirring up more hate no solutions.
10
Can anyone explain to me the difference between the Bundy brothers armed taunting of the US government in Oregon and the ISIS armed taunting of the US government in the mideast?
Do not both of these groups, led by ne'er do wells looking for their 15 minutes in the spotlights, want the same thing? Trap the imperialists into foolishly coming in and slaughtering a bunch of losers with guns and turning them into martyrs thus attracting many more losers with guns thus starting a revolution.
Yes it is disgusting to see these thugs pulling this stunt here in our backyards. But hopefully, cool headed leadership[ will again rule the day and keep the lid on the pot and not allow it to boil over. Calmly outlast the creeps and turn their stupidity into another footnote of the horrible consequences of the antiquated Second Amendment.
Do not both of these groups, led by ne'er do wells looking for their 15 minutes in the spotlights, want the same thing? Trap the imperialists into foolishly coming in and slaughtering a bunch of losers with guns and turning them into martyrs thus attracting many more losers with guns thus starting a revolution.
Yes it is disgusting to see these thugs pulling this stunt here in our backyards. But hopefully, cool headed leadership[ will again rule the day and keep the lid on the pot and not allow it to boil over. Calmly outlast the creeps and turn their stupidity into another footnote of the horrible consequences of the antiquated Second Amendment.
14
Is it just me or do the Bundy brothers look just like Dobb and Bear Gerhardt from the recently concluded "Fargo" series. They also have the same look in their eye, the same apparent level of intelligence, and the same fundamental approach to problem-solivng. Life is imitating art - too bad.
4
Take away the guns, and how is this different from Occupy Wall Street? I'll bet these folks clean up their mess once given the chance to state their case. And their case is totally valid.
They have occupied buildings, have shelter and are armed; plus they represent a small (but wealthy) faction of the country: cattle ranchers who take advantage of low cost grazing land like the Malheur (which, by the way, is a sensitive ecosystem, which will be polluted and damaged by overgrazing and cattle excrement), then refuse to pay for it. Even if they leave peacefully, and clean up after themselves, many of us will not be convinced. More than once, native peoples have occupied what they saw as underutilized public property. We know what happened then.
2
Should I point out two flaws in your post?
First, the people of the United States are the government. When a citizen or a group of citizens are in a public building, they are in their property. Not the property of the administration.
Second, according to the Constitution the federal government is forbidden to own any property outside of the District of Columbia that is not needful for the operation of the nation under the enumerated powers found in Art 1, Section 8.
The fact that the federal officials have been allowed to violate the Constitution for so very long does not change that very simple fact. The property belongs to the states. Not the federal government apparatus.
First, the people of the United States are the government. When a citizen or a group of citizens are in a public building, they are in their property. Not the property of the administration.
Second, according to the Constitution the federal government is forbidden to own any property outside of the District of Columbia that is not needful for the operation of the nation under the enumerated powers found in Art 1, Section 8.
The fact that the federal officials have been allowed to violate the Constitution for so very long does not change that very simple fact. The property belongs to the states. Not the federal government apparatus.
Yes, the constitution begins "We the people .." and proceeds to establish a government that derives its authority from citizens who choose representatives. We thereby delegate to these representatives the management of federal properties. Nowhere in the constitution does it state that a citizen has unfettered access to property owned by the government. The aircraft carrier, USS Gerald Ford, is federal property. I don't have the right, thank goodness, to take it for a spin if I want to.
You have misread Art. 1, Sec 8. This section contains no prohibition on owning any other property.
You have misread Art. 1, Sec 8. This section contains no prohibition on owning any other property.
9
Apparently, you are referring to the Article 1 clause that provides the US Congress the power to fully control property it has purchased for uses related to militias (forts, magazines, etc.). There is nothing in this clause that forbids the federal government from owning or purchasing additional property or from regulating any property.
On the other hand, you completely ignore the Article 4 clause that states "The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."
Yours is just another case of looking for and finding only what you want to find and seeing nothing else. That strategy is what keeps stupid people stupid and ignorant people ignorant. Sorry charlie.
On the other hand, you completely ignore the Article 4 clause that states "The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."
Yours is just another case of looking for and finding only what you want to find and seeing nothing else. That strategy is what keeps stupid people stupid and ignorant people ignorant. Sorry charlie.
11
st, the people of the United States are the government. When a citizen or a group of citizens are in a public building, they are in their property. Not the property of the administration.
what if i am stopped from going to th peoples property by other people
then what ?
those cowboys do not own that property exclusively
what if i am stopped from going to th peoples property by other people
then what ?
those cowboys do not own that property exclusively
3
What a beautifully written and informative historical piece you have written. Thank you. The Malheur reserve, presently occupied by rightwing, delusional fanatics, desperately needs continued federal government protection. One can only imagine the destruction of this precious area that would come if the pathetic cowboys (all hats, no cattle) every got their hands on it. The rightwing has got it all wrong: we don't need less government per se; we need effective, well coordinated, intelligent government. Since the rightwing only wants to attack and destroy government with no interest in improving it, it has absolutely nothing to offer. The cast of GOP goofballs presently running for the presidency are good examples of why we cannot give in to their know-nothing, gun-toting agenda.
11
The east half of Oregon is a high desert with so few people that maps use ranch headquarters as points of interest. To ranch in this area you must pay close attention to rain and water available and adjust the herd. Successful ranchers conserve grass to maintain it. If you take risks you loose.
3
I think about all the people displaced by changes that have swept in with our modern economy. The community that comes to mind first is Detroit. Can anyone imagine a bunch of armed insurrectionists, angry with their current financial plight and laying the blame entirely upon the federal government, taking over say, an entire city block of Detroit? And what if said insurrectionists weren't white? Can anyone imagine what law enforcement would do to these people? I can. I don't think they would be there on day four, or day five. I think the ATF would have stormed the place on day one!
It's unfathomable to me why we are allowing these crazy white men to take over land, by force of weapons, that our tax dollars support. And for no other reason that they are aggrieved that the modern economy has left them behind. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is the reality that so many people in urban America have been experiencing for decades. Why do they believe they have the right to squat on public lands until Uncle Sam gives them a handout. This is nonsense!
It's unfathomable to me why we are allowing these crazy white men to take over land, by force of weapons, that our tax dollars support. And for no other reason that they are aggrieved that the modern economy has left them behind. They need to wake up and smell the coffee. This is the reality that so many people in urban America have been experiencing for decades. Why do they believe they have the right to squat on public lands until Uncle Sam gives them a handout. This is nonsense!
11
People of Malheur basin Oregon
(exploiting land, destroying birds, other wildlife, and entire ecology)
versus Birds
(other wildlife, the ecology this wildlife supports and the the ecology that supports a sustainable natural resource for all of America).
(exploiting land, destroying birds, other wildlife, and entire ecology)
versus Birds
(other wildlife, the ecology this wildlife supports and the the ecology that supports a sustainable natural resource for all of America).
1
Americans need to reduce the amount of red meat-beef- they eat. It's killing us and the environment. If the demand for beef dropped significantly, then this grazing problem would end. Sure we would need to switch some calorie consumption to other sources and that would require careful planning. But we'd be healthier - thinner - and the environment would be better off.
2
Your statement that we would be healthier and thinner is not borne out by science.
1
Much of the West appears very stark to someone from the Mid-West. Some parts of the year it appears that the cattle must have to graze at 30 MPH just to get enough to eat. Maybe it is simply that the land cannot sustain such interlopers that cattle are to this land.
In bringing such negative attention to themselves, in fact, they are forcing the government to act. "Uh-oh, things are worse than we thought. We better act now!" How many people in decision making positions are thinking that right now? More than a month ago, I'd bet.
Good going cowboy.
In bringing such negative attention to themselves, in fact, they are forcing the government to act. "Uh-oh, things are worse than we thought. We better act now!" How many people in decision making positions are thinking that right now? More than a month ago, I'd bet.
Good going cowboy.
2
Like the Baltimore mayor said, they just need space to air their grievances.
1
Plenty of places too air one's grievances but armed takeover of public property is not one of them.
2
...and they have it, lots of it, and they are blocking access to it by any of the other Americans who might want to visit it.
It seems that these ranchers just want free stuff. They feel they have no obligations to society at large, and just want to take take take.
Remove government, and the greedy and unscrupulous just step in and take all they can.
Remove government, and the greedy and unscrupulous just step in and take all they can.
15
if anyone has a right to the west, it's Native Americans. How ironic that these whites are complaining about lands being stolen!
19
It is unfortunate that history does not conform to the desired narrative of the foolish or the preachers.
The story of Western "ranching" is one that is repeated for the rail-roads, trucking, churches, oil-exploration, high-tech, etc. They were all helped by generous government subsidies. That does not go over well with the self-made man crowd, who like welfare but are loathe to admit it.
Google or Amazon would not exist had it not been for a giant government defense project paid for by our taxes.
The story of Western "ranching" is one that is repeated for the rail-roads, trucking, churches, oil-exploration, high-tech, etc. They were all helped by generous government subsidies. That does not go over well with the self-made man crowd, who like welfare but are loathe to admit it.
Google or Amazon would not exist had it not been for a giant government defense project paid for by our taxes.
16
Thank you thank you thank you NY Times for providing this historical perspective. The protesters are guilty of the denial of history in order to maintain their self enhancing myths.
11
This looks more like an attempt by these people to take something, in this case, land, that they did not pay for. They should be peacefully removed if possible. If they incite violence, they should be removed with whatever force is necessary to restore order. We either work within the agreed governmental structures, or we end up with chaos where everybody can do whatever the hell he wants to do. If these people are allowed to steal public land, what says that I can't set up my bath house and spa on top of Old Faithful?
11
Seems that Mr. Ammon Bundy has taken out a half million dollar loan from the SBA. Apparently that doesn't conflict with his political philosophy.
Personally, I avoid sagebrush & juniper country like the plague. With the admixture of nativist local loonies and Birchers who fled Southern California thirty years ago, the atmosphere is just too toxic.
Personally, I avoid sagebrush & juniper country like the plague. With the admixture of nativist local loonies and Birchers who fled Southern California thirty years ago, the atmosphere is just too toxic.
9
The government should do what Washington did in the case of the Whiskey Rebellion: Send in the troops and kick those redneck bums off public lands, or shoot the cruds that start shooting. None of this kid-glove stuff for such redneck riff-raff....If those people were black or Hispanic, you can be the army or FBI would have been there with bells on. It's about time this white trash was treated equally as even innocent black kids with toy guns have been treated. Enough kid glove stuff for these white cruds!
6
One correction. The troops you refer to were well-regulated militias provided by several state governors. Yes...demonstrating what the authors of the 2nd amendment were thinking. Referring to this crowd as militia is completely wrong.
It's not like they're blocking freeways, stalling air travel, and endangering lives, all in the name of temper tantrums.
1
This is a classic case of the tragedy of the commons. The disputed ecology is fragile and a very limited resource that is at a tipping point. The protesters don't see and refuse to understand that The People already own and run the land and that they have determined how to use it. The protesters might not like this but even if they got their way, it's a matter of little time before overgrazing brings back dustbowl conditions to the area. At that point they will no doubt ask for federal disaster assistance.
147
Excellent comment!
1
This is a great perspective on US land management history in Eastern Oregon, but it is missing the Paiute perspective. What happens when we looks further back at the original settling of this area by European immigrants and refugees?
87
Why not go even further when Indians ruled the land.
2
Can we not apply this to the entire US?
Exactly, how can an article purport to examine the history of land use and ownership without mentioning the original (and arguably rightful) owners of the land except for a passing reference four lines from the end. Virtually all of this land was taken, by force or fraud, directly from the native residents by the federal government which then distributed some of it to private owners while retaining much of it. Any ownership or control the government relinquishes should revert to the native americans.
1
I worked on a large family ranch quite near to Malheur for more than ten years. I know many of the ranches in the area and the families that own them. I have good friends who are staff on the refuge.
The truth is that the men who have taken over the refuge headquarters are not locals. They are from other states, and I suspect that many of them are not ranchers. The ranchers I know occasionally complain about the Fish and Wildlife Service and the BLM, but get along with them and follow the rules, at least about as much as most Americans do. When the Hammonds burned the land to get rid of water-hungry juniper trees, their neighbors were angry with them and some were glad to see them prosecuted. What set some of them off was the action of the courts in re-sentencing the Hammonds after they had served their initial sentences and been released. Most of the ranchers are not sophisticated about law and court procedure and thought the Hammonds had been tried twice for the same crime.
The majority of the ranchers in Harney County, Oregon, don't want the Bundy bunch on the refuge or in the county and just wish they'd go home. They are able to graze their cattle on the refuge and cut hay, and they get along with the refuge and the BLM well enough without "help" from outsider
Everybody should just relax. Buddy and the others will be gone soon enough. They know they're not wanted by the other ranchers.
The truth is that the men who have taken over the refuge headquarters are not locals. They are from other states, and I suspect that many of them are not ranchers. The ranchers I know occasionally complain about the Fish and Wildlife Service and the BLM, but get along with them and follow the rules, at least about as much as most Americans do. When the Hammonds burned the land to get rid of water-hungry juniper trees, their neighbors were angry with them and some were glad to see them prosecuted. What set some of them off was the action of the courts in re-sentencing the Hammonds after they had served their initial sentences and been released. Most of the ranchers are not sophisticated about law and court procedure and thought the Hammonds had been tried twice for the same crime.
The majority of the ranchers in Harney County, Oregon, don't want the Bundy bunch on the refuge or in the county and just wish they'd go home. They are able to graze their cattle on the refuge and cut hay, and they get along with the refuge and the BLM well enough without "help" from outsider
Everybody should just relax. Buddy and the others will be gone soon enough. They know they're not wanted by the other ranchers.
263
The Hammonds were also trying to hide their poaching operation which one of the 4 fires they were accused of setting did manage to do.
Junipers may suck water but they are a natural part of the land that is not harming it. The desire to make more money does not justify burning them.
Why doesn't anyone bring up the far more likely reason for a ranch failing, bad management & or the land simply not being suited to raising enough cattle to support a cattle ranch when they fail to earn enough money?
Junipers may suck water but they are a natural part of the land that is not harming it. The desire to make more money does not justify burning them.
Why doesn't anyone bring up the far more likely reason for a ranch failing, bad management & or the land simply not being suited to raising enough cattle to support a cattle ranch when they fail to earn enough money?
2
Isn't an armed occupation of a federal building a crime? Don't we have a justice system that tries and punishes criminals?
No one wants to see a shootout, but that doesn't mean that criminals should be appeased.
No one wants to see a shootout, but that doesn't mean that criminals should be appeased.
3
Entitlement seems to be a common response to change. I remember the same attitude among Oregon loggers back in the 80s, with regards to old growth forests.
11
The naive tendency to side with a PROFESSOR from Michigan (not an actual rancher or even a RESIDENT of any of the ranch towns in Oregon) who eloquently cites environmentalist history from the late 19th and 20th century, but conveniently omits current local history, is demonstrative of the group-think echo chamber that is the NYT. In other words, Ms. Langston entirely omitted Ammon Bundy's stated reason for the takeover as well as what actually caused the festering of the protesters. As with all protests, there will be those who attempt to hijack the actual protest in favor of their own agenda's, but Ammon Bundy, the face of this protest, stated that the protest is in reaction to the RE-sentencing of Dwight Hammond and his son for arson back in 2001 and 2006; land fires that they lit to combat invasive plant growth and wildfires. The 2 men are 73 and 46 years old respectively, and have already served prison time for setting the fire (on their own land that spread to BLM land, but was put out by the Hammonds none-the-less). Now they are being sent back to prison for the same crime. Cough cough - double jeopardy anyone?
I can't begin to enumerate the op-eds that I've read in the NYT protesting "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to sentencing of minorities. But in a case such as this, these 2 old white men deserve years in jail - and the reason, you are led to believe by the likes of Ms. Langston, is because generations of hillbillies want to over graze and kill egrets.
I can't begin to enumerate the op-eds that I've read in the NYT protesting "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to sentencing of minorities. But in a case such as this, these 2 old white men deserve years in jail - and the reason, you are led to believe by the likes of Ms. Langston, is because generations of hillbillies want to over graze and kill egrets.
Amon Bundy is a freeloader. He is trying to get cover for his family's 20+year theft of Public Resources by gloming onto the Hammonds case in another state to hide that fact. The Hammonds and most of the State of Oregon do not want him there.
They were not "re-sentenced" they were improperly sentenced in the first sentencing. The mandatory minimum for the crime they were convicted of is 5 years. They are now serving the rest of it out. They lit at least one of those fires to hide evidence of a poaching operation which I suspect if not a one time event, and they did not set it on their own land.
Double Jeopardy is being tried for the same crime twice. This has not happened. This jail time is for the crime they were convicted of once. I expect some folks who misunderstand the law thought they were getting away with something by giving them the lower sentence.
Give this link a read, the Hammonds are shown to be belligerent and multiple offenders. They were charged with more crimes than they were convicted of.
http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arso...
They were not "re-sentenced" they were improperly sentenced in the first sentencing. The mandatory minimum for the crime they were convicted of is 5 years. They are now serving the rest of it out. They lit at least one of those fires to hide evidence of a poaching operation which I suspect if not a one time event, and they did not set it on their own land.
Double Jeopardy is being tried for the same crime twice. This has not happened. This jail time is for the crime they were convicted of once. I expect some folks who misunderstand the law thought they were getting away with something by giving them the lower sentence.
Give this link a read, the Hammonds are shown to be belligerent and multiple offenders. They were charged with more crimes than they were convicted of.
http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arso...
2
Ms. Langston is at Michigan Tech, in the midst of a place that, like the rest of the UP, was despoiled and abandoned by the lumber and mining interests and never really came out of the Depression. There are a number of militiamen and other miscreants up there trying to pursue a myth, but most Yoopers are smarter than that and still vote for their best interests. Much smarter I might add, than stereotypical hillbillies or old men who were under-sentenced in violation of statutes and apparently can't count.
2
Whatever the reason that triggered this illegal action, it is now being promoted by the law breakers themselves and their supporters as a battle against the federal takeover of land they believe should be privately owned. The incident certainly smacks of an echo of the Sagebrush Rebellion rather than a cry against a miscarriage of justice.
1
Never ceases to amaze me how the self-serving, greedy and inhumane wind wind dying in the very dust bowls they create on the foundation of their own myopia.
7
One of the false assumptions of the ranchers is that when they must abide by environmental and conservation regulations the government is infringing on their property rights and they loose income and the "freedom' to use land as they please. But when wildlife is destroyed, no one looses because no one owns egrets or coyotes or any wildlife.
This false dichotomy between man and nature has led us to the point where we are now with nearly 200 species a day facing extinction. While some farmers and ranchers are good stewards of the environment most put their own short term economic interests first, often with disasterous results.
This is not just a problem with cattle grazing in the west. Mining operations, oil and gas drilling, over use of water resources by corporate agriculture all claim immunity from controls simply because of their land ownership and the fact that they have invested money and therefor expect to make money.
Our inability to live with nature rather than conquer and dominate nature has brought the world to a tipping point beyond which there may be no recovery. Preservation of wetlands or protection of wildlife may seem like small measures, but without those small measures many of the species of life we share this planet with will go the way of the carrier pigeon. And unfortunately government is the only collective agent that has been assigned through our democratic process to guard against these tragedies.
This false dichotomy between man and nature has led us to the point where we are now with nearly 200 species a day facing extinction. While some farmers and ranchers are good stewards of the environment most put their own short term economic interests first, often with disasterous results.
This is not just a problem with cattle grazing in the west. Mining operations, oil and gas drilling, over use of water resources by corporate agriculture all claim immunity from controls simply because of their land ownership and the fact that they have invested money and therefor expect to make money.
Our inability to live with nature rather than conquer and dominate nature has brought the world to a tipping point beyond which there may be no recovery. Preservation of wetlands or protection of wildlife may seem like small measures, but without those small measures many of the species of life we share this planet with will go the way of the carrier pigeon. And unfortunately government is the only collective agent that has been assigned through our democratic process to guard against these tragedies.
14
An iteresting side note, the lead Bundy in this instance that rails against the gorvernment is, I believe, the same Bundy that received a $500,000 SBA loan for his trucking company. The loan apparently allows him the luxury of being able to take time away from his business and actual work to engage in his current activities, the irony is striking in spite of his apparent inability to perceive it.
24
The article is right on. Anthony Lukas's book, "Big Trouble", shows how logging and grazing interests controlled state gov'ts and would have done grievous harm to the western forests if not stopped by the federal gov't. What these anti-gov't types want is the return to the world before white people arrived.
11
Those militia types just want to grab public land for their own private benefit.
Public lands are for everyone. The Bundy's and company claim they want to protect the arsonists that reported for jail time, and perhaps re-establish the cattle barons that administered the land for their own advantage - and to hell with anyone else.
Public lands are for everyone. The Bundy's and company claim they want to protect the arsonists that reported for jail time, and perhaps re-establish the cattle barons that administered the land for their own advantage - and to hell with anyone else.
18
Great op ed and I'm not complaining (for once), but these guys really like the attention, and that is the last thing they should be getting.
29
The anarchists you mention are not a militia. They are anarchists and they are on OUR land. Get OFF OUR LAND, anarchists, and start paying market rates to graze your cattle or use OUR resources from them. WE are tired of funding your ridiculous, democracy-destroying ideas. OUR federal, state and local officials should arrest every single one of them for their treasonous acts, including threatening to kill OUR government officials.
184
One of the tenets of anarchism is that you don't use violence to coerce others. Anarchists use consensus techniques to find win win solutions. Anarchists do sometimes inconvenience others by taking public space to engage in public speech, but they do it without weapons. Some of them do break stuff (these are exceptions) but they don't equate breaking stuff to violence.
These are not anarchists. They are extreme right wing libertarians.
These are not anarchists. They are extreme right wing libertarians.
A sober and balanced look at the past, present, and future of this issue.
15
I'll make prediction:
The FBI has pictures of all these occupiers and they know who they are. All the occupiers have committed felonies - it's a crime to occupy a federal facility. Over time the passion will cool and the swagger will fade. The government will wait and then peacefully toe FBI will arrest them one-by-one.
The FBI has pictures of all these occupiers and they know who they are. All the occupiers have committed felonies - it's a crime to occupy a federal facility. Over time the passion will cool and the swagger will fade. The government will wait and then peacefully toe FBI will arrest them one-by-one.
22
The "armed militia" drove off government agents from Clive Bundy's ranch in Nevada a couple years ago. Nothing has since happened. No reason this bunch won't also get away with it.
1
Oh, like they've done with the Bundy crew in Nevada?
The takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge is the latest in a long line of individual Americans taking a stand against a power that they feel is stacked against them; be that power their Government or large business interests. The participants want to be heard.
Other recent examples include the Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter “movements”.
Just because an occupation or a protest is not born of the left, doesn’t mean that it lacks legitimacy.
Other recent examples include the Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter “movements”.
Just because an occupation or a protest is not born of the left, doesn’t mean that it lacks legitimacy.
I do think that comparisons with the Occupy movement and the Indian occupation of Alcatraz are appropriate. The response to these need to be similar. Don't have the answer, but I know a military response is wrong.
Imagine the carnage had the protesters in Ferguson been armed.
Remember seeing that picture of seated Occupy protesters being pepper sprayed at point blank range?
When you bring your firearm to a protest it stops being a protest. It becomes an armed situation.
Remember seeing that picture of seated Occupy protesters being pepper sprayed at point blank range?
When you bring your firearm to a protest it stops being a protest. It becomes an armed situation.
1
Just because it isn't born of the left doesn't mean that it is in automatically legitimate, either. And there's nothing legitimate here.
2
They will go away when the cameras leave. Granting them this much ink in the NYT is not helping.
It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of nowhere. Get a grip! It's not newsworthy.
It's a bird sanctuary in the middle of nowhere. Get a grip! It's not newsworthy.
5
First of all, it isn't the middle of nowhere if you live in Oregon. But even if it was, Cliven Bundy's ranch was just a speck of desert, but when the BLM backed down from armed thugs, and no-one went to jail, it emboldened the would-be domestic terrorists.
Ignore them again, and next time they might show up with their AR-15s and seize something somewhere that you consider "newsworthy."
Ignore them again, and next time they might show up with their AR-15s and seize something somewhere that you consider "newsworthy."
2
It is newsworthy, not because of its location, but because the entire concept of public lands, which are a large proportion of the acreage out here in the West, is under attack. All you have to do is listen to some of the GOP candidates talk about selling them off.
Public lands are one of the great American political innovations, and they belong t o you in New England, just as much as to me in Northern California.
Public lands are one of the great American political innovations, and they belong t o you in New England, just as much as to me in Northern California.
2
I wonder what the ethnic makeup is of the occupiers of the Malheur Refuge? Any African Americans? Any Latinos? Any Asians? Or are they all just old, angry white men with guns?
40
Many of them seem to be young. White with guns. Stupid.
Angry, old, and clearly unemployed white men.
young white anger men
The problem with myths is when they become the true faith of the believers and the litmus test for non-believers.
When the true believers feel that they are victimized by others who not only benefit from the wrongs committed to the true believers, but mock their values, then you have anger thirsting for revenge. Toss in the rhetoric of the political right to fan the flames and you have the recipe for Oregon or Waco.
The simple reality is that much of the west consists of arid plateaus unsuitable for sustained economic prosperity. It took government subsidies and military force to conquer these lands and to establish the extraction and ranching industries. They are just too remote and too water deprived to survive economically. So these western cowboys are doomed economically, no matter what they say about government.
But the so-called militias believe they have a Constitutional right, no, make that an obligation to take the land and resource they want for their own use. In their view, federal government has no say about this; if anything the government has somehow stolen land that belongs to the locals. This view is reinforced by the republican party and its propagandists with their incessant calls on federal overreach, states' rights and their veneration of guns to settle disputes in the name of self protection.
One thing that isn't a myth however.
These cowboys are committing armed insurrection against the people of the United States and must be punished.
When the true believers feel that they are victimized by others who not only benefit from the wrongs committed to the true believers, but mock their values, then you have anger thirsting for revenge. Toss in the rhetoric of the political right to fan the flames and you have the recipe for Oregon or Waco.
The simple reality is that much of the west consists of arid plateaus unsuitable for sustained economic prosperity. It took government subsidies and military force to conquer these lands and to establish the extraction and ranching industries. They are just too remote and too water deprived to survive economically. So these western cowboys are doomed economically, no matter what they say about government.
But the so-called militias believe they have a Constitutional right, no, make that an obligation to take the land and resource they want for their own use. In their view, federal government has no say about this; if anything the government has somehow stolen land that belongs to the locals. This view is reinforced by the republican party and its propagandists with their incessant calls on federal overreach, states' rights and their veneration of guns to settle disputes in the name of self protection.
One thing that isn't a myth however.
These cowboys are committing armed insurrection against the people of the United States and must be punished.
61
Could we PLEASE STOP dignifying these thugs by referring to them as "militia". Let's all them what they really are: domestic terrorists.
96
yes, perhaps "insurrectionists" would be more appropriate. Remember what happened to John Brown when he seized government property under force of arms?
1
First, these people are an armed white gang. If they were black or muslim then all hell would be brought upon them. I don't advocate that. All policing actions should follow a low-risk approach where there is no immediate threat to loss of life or injury: (A) Contain, (B) Monitor/assess, (C) Deescalate, (D) Bring to justice.
Second, NYT not allowing the opportunity for comments on the Jeb Bush heroin article regarding his family's struggle with addiction is inappropriate. Substance abuse and addiction are a national scourge and a presidential candidate is indirectly involved. JEB advocates more of the same ineffective heavy-handed law enforcement and border control. Instead, implement the following seven steps:
(1) Conflate illicit drugs, alcohol, and tobacco and treat them all the same
(2) legalize (take the drug trade, cartels and gangs out of it)
(3) regulate like medications (make it a health care issue)
(4) create measured delivery meds that can be prescribed (thus minimizing overdoses)
(5) release non-violent prisoners with drug convictions who were exclusively users (guide them, train them, and treat them as those with a health care disability)
(6) invest money in addiction prevention and treatment (take the money from spending on prisons, drug-related law enforcement, and drug-related prosecution)
(7) educate--educate--educate on the problems of drug use (use social media and advertising without being hampered by the alcohol, tobacco, and drug industries).
Second, NYT not allowing the opportunity for comments on the Jeb Bush heroin article regarding his family's struggle with addiction is inappropriate. Substance abuse and addiction are a national scourge and a presidential candidate is indirectly involved. JEB advocates more of the same ineffective heavy-handed law enforcement and border control. Instead, implement the following seven steps:
(1) Conflate illicit drugs, alcohol, and tobacco and treat them all the same
(2) legalize (take the drug trade, cartels and gangs out of it)
(3) regulate like medications (make it a health care issue)
(4) create measured delivery meds that can be prescribed (thus minimizing overdoses)
(5) release non-violent prisoners with drug convictions who were exclusively users (guide them, train them, and treat them as those with a health care disability)
(6) invest money in addiction prevention and treatment (take the money from spending on prisons, drug-related law enforcement, and drug-related prosecution)
(7) educate--educate--educate on the problems of drug use (use social media and advertising without being hampered by the alcohol, tobacco, and drug industries).
21
Jeb! invading his daughter's privacy on her substance abuse shows how desperate he is. Protecting his family from an intrusive media was once given as a reason he wasn't sure he wanted to run for president. Exploiting his family is distasteful.
If these people really understood the Constitution, they'd file suit in Federal court. They are, simply, criminals who think their guns give them some claim to rights they don't have.
92
You're right about filing suit, but it's hard to imagine what their cause of action would be.
These dudes watched Red Dawn too many times. They need to go to remedial civics class as part of their conditions of supervised release.
56
We are living in a Republican Party world. The outlaws who have taken over the Malheur wildlife preserve in Oregon represent the Republican solution to settling disagreements. In this world all disputes are settled with guns. Those with the biggest assault weapons and most firing power dictate to those who only carry handguns. This is the Republican vision of law and order for America. If you don't like this Republican vision for America, vote for anyone other than a Republican.
103
Sadly, true. The Republican Party is the party of people who preach Christian "love" while packing heat in case you don't get their message.
1
White men with beards and guns - militia
Black men with beards and guns - not a militia
Black men with beards and guns - not a militia
44
Most of these movements, including BLM and Occupy Wall Street, germinate under false premises and swell out of control quickly. A perceived grievance, a misguided sense of righteousness and media exposure, create fuel for the fire. It would be better if they were just ignored.
4
I was not part of any Occupy Wall Street demonstration. I did note, however, that the movement was overwhelmingly non-violent. Yet local ordinances were violated and Zuccotti Park was cleared, roughly, by the police. Protesters did not mount barricades and produce firearms to enforce their will. Their argument was, and is, one of moral persuasion, an argument they understood would be lost in any hail of gunfire.
Now we have the "We want free land," protesters in Oregon, arguing that since they live there, no one else has any right to say boo! to them, that no one else has any legitimate interest in how that land is used. And you'll face their guns if you disagree.
You may believe each is basing their positions on false premises, but there the equivalence ends. It matters a lot when you openly threaten violence to obtain your ends. I find it a major benefit of democratic government that we can confront our differences (in theory) without shooting, or threatening to shoot each other. A point lost on the Oregon occupiers, but hopefully Ray not on you.
Now we have the "We want free land," protesters in Oregon, arguing that since they live there, no one else has any right to say boo! to them, that no one else has any legitimate interest in how that land is used. And you'll face their guns if you disagree.
You may believe each is basing their positions on false premises, but there the equivalence ends. It matters a lot when you openly threaten violence to obtain your ends. I find it a major benefit of democratic government that we can confront our differences (in theory) without shooting, or threatening to shoot each other. A point lost on the Oregon occupiers, but hopefully Ray not on you.
1
Nonsense. The country is being looted by global corporations and global billionaires. Most Americans know that is true. Even the Tea Party is against crony capitalism, which is global corporations getting a special deal from government. This is the same thing that Occupy is against.
The people that are looting us use race and other differences to divide us so we blame each other instead of them. This becomes institutionalized in government institutions like police departments.
This is why if armed black men had taken this land they would already be dead, while heavily armed white men are treated like they just got a little carried away.
The people that are looting us use race and other differences to divide us so we blame each other instead of them. This becomes institutionalized in government institutions like police departments.
This is why if armed black men had taken this land they would already be dead, while heavily armed white men are treated like they just got a little carried away.
2
Occupy Wall Street not the same thing. Not an armed insurrection!
1
Nearly two years ago, Cliven Bundy ripped into low-income Americans for collecting government subsidies at the same time that he was stiffing the government of $1 million in back grazing fees. Since then, only a handful of articles have called out the rest of his public-lands ranching brethren for the hand-outs they receive. The mainstream media—including the New York Times—went back to publishing glowing stories about cowboys as heroes as soon as Cliven was out of the headlines. Just last week, the paper reminded readers to check out a popular 2015 feature on the bull riding Wright brothers, who are, themselves, welfare ranchers, just like Cliven Bundy. http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/the-new-west-with-the-wright-fa...
Now, of course, a new story presents itself, and the Times is all over it. But the latest arrival of Bunds in Oregon will disappear, and most likely, The Times will go back to glorifying ranchers and neglecting what gives rise to their armed standoffs: the federal grazing program.
Read any story about ranching, and see who Times reporters value as trusted sources. Environmentalists? No. Activists? No. Welfare ranchers.
The time is here for journalists to inform the public about the federal grazing program that's behind the present armed standoff and its significance. For too long, the media has let the 2.7% of public lands ranchers run away with the “sustainable” cowboy narrative — leaving the public, public lands, and wildlife paying the price.
Now, of course, a new story presents itself, and the Times is all over it. But the latest arrival of Bunds in Oregon will disappear, and most likely, The Times will go back to glorifying ranchers and neglecting what gives rise to their armed standoffs: the federal grazing program.
Read any story about ranching, and see who Times reporters value as trusted sources. Environmentalists? No. Activists? No. Welfare ranchers.
The time is here for journalists to inform the public about the federal grazing program that's behind the present armed standoff and its significance. For too long, the media has let the 2.7% of public lands ranchers run away with the “sustainable” cowboy narrative — leaving the public, public lands, and wildlife paying the price.
97
Yes, the Times writers have some idiotic romantic notion of ranchers out here in the West....they probably live in Manhattan, in a highrise
I have never visited that particular Wildlife Refuge, but until now, it was a possibility. As a citizen tax-payer, I am part owner of that land. Now some locals with guns have started a range war and have closed my refuge.
Myths? Pony Express, Mom and Apple Pie, all men created Equal; manifest destiny. Even Ireland has been called the land of Saints and Scholars; we were a country flowing with milk and honey... It went wrong, but of course, it was the fault of the English...
We all need myths... the goodness of humans; our capacity to overcome problems; unstoppable progress... We have failed to offer myths suitably tweaked to fit with our growing knowledge of the world, of nature, and of what we actually share with the rest of the animal kingdom.
It's nearly impossible for most of us to have a voice. The din of the commercials on TV, the glitz of the full page (nauseating) ads in the NYT (not to mention their glossy supplements glorifying "fashion" and its accessories...) We're dismissed with words like "rant..." But people who follow the Bundy gang, have been systematically deprived of the elasticity of spirit that might allow them to live in greater harmony.
Myths? Pony Express, Mom and Apple Pie, all men created Equal; manifest destiny. Even Ireland has been called the land of Saints and Scholars; we were a country flowing with milk and honey... It went wrong, but of course, it was the fault of the English...
We all need myths... the goodness of humans; our capacity to overcome problems; unstoppable progress... We have failed to offer myths suitably tweaked to fit with our growing knowledge of the world, of nature, and of what we actually share with the rest of the animal kingdom.
It's nearly impossible for most of us to have a voice. The din of the commercials on TV, the glitz of the full page (nauseating) ads in the NYT (not to mention their glossy supplements glorifying "fashion" and its accessories...) We're dismissed with words like "rant..." But people who follow the Bundy gang, have been systematically deprived of the elasticity of spirit that might allow them to live in greater harmony.
17
They are not even locals. They are imported thugs. The locals want them to leave.
Good but they are not locals.
Harmony? I have trouble picturing men with guns who spout racial epithets as people who even believe in harmony. Think of our country's Civil Rights' Movement with its history of non-violence.
The one thing missing from this piece is an accurate description of the actual land around the refuge. This is not Great Plains grassland. It is a desert and in reality no one really should be grazing cattle there at all. Cattle Grazing is in fact only possible with very strict controls and management and even then there is often long term damage in many areas. I f these ranchers got their way and federal management disappeared they would overgraze it in a matter of years and they would all be bankrupt.
146
This line says it all: "When mythic histories supplant the complexities of the past, the results can be lethal."
Tragic as this story is, it is not unique. The same observation applies to the mythic histories embraced by all groups who want to "take our country back."
Tragic as this story is, it is not unique. The same observation applies to the mythic histories embraced by all groups who want to "take our country back."
79
The greatest irony in all this is that those who mouth "take our country back" never had much to take. They were largely suckers, who have come to perceive their misfortune but not as of yet their suckerhood.
Guns did not play the key role in the Old West. The reality was more like "Little House on the Prairie." My ancestors were farmers and shop-keepers - not gunslingers. The reality was that the Old West was part of the Victorian Era, with its emphasis on what was proper. It was about people settling farmland, setting up businesses in towns, and being sociable - especially on Sundays. Guns were necessary to protect against criminals, renegades, and snakes when one was outside of town; there were no state or county police forces in those days. But typically, when someone came into town armed, they had to check their firearms with the constable. That's the reality.
Hollywood tells a different story, but that story has been getting more accurate in the movies. "Open Range" and the remake of "True Grit" are fairly believable. But most believable is the old "Little House on the Prairie" TV series (excepting the wardrobe).
Hollywood tells a different story, but that story has been getting more accurate in the movies. "Open Range" and the remake of "True Grit" are fairly believable. But most believable is the old "Little House on the Prairie" TV series (excepting the wardrobe).
46
You mean AFTER the natives were extirpated with guns. You can't skip that part.
This article sheds much light on the history of the region. However I think the author puts too much faith in the idea that the Department of the Interior and the Fish and Wildlife Service will compromise and try to work something out. Here on the East Coast they manage by fiat and they have generated a lot of hatred and mistrust. They often make decisions based on shoddy science and strong arm their policies on communities that are negatively affected. Over generations this has caused some of the hatred and mistrust of government we see manifested in Trump's support in this election. I am in no way supporting these crazy, gun toting zealots, but there is history on the other side as well.
22
"However I think the author puts too much faith in the idea that the Department of the Interior and the Fish and Wildlife Service will compromise and try to work something out."
--------
According to the Portland Chapter of the Audubon Society: "In 2013, the Refuge adopted a long-term management plan developed through an inclusive collaborative process that brought together the local community, tribes, conservation groups, state and federal agencies, and other stakeholders. These stakeholders have continued to work together to implement this strategy which includes one of the biggest wetland restoration efforts ever undertaken."
It seems the compromises were made not all that long ago.
You can read their full statement here: http://audubonportland.org/news/audubon-society-of-portland-statement-on...
--------
According to the Portland Chapter of the Audubon Society: "In 2013, the Refuge adopted a long-term management plan developed through an inclusive collaborative process that brought together the local community, tribes, conservation groups, state and federal agencies, and other stakeholders. These stakeholders have continued to work together to implement this strategy which includes one of the biggest wetland restoration efforts ever undertaken."
It seems the compromises were made not all that long ago.
You can read their full statement here: http://audubonportland.org/news/audubon-society-of-portland-statement-on...
3
Some examples of "decisions based on shoddy science" might lead to a better understanding of the conflict. Otherwise this sounds pretty much like more right-wing science-denial.
2
All together now, This land is my land, this land is my land, this land was made for me and mine. Bundy national anthem.
9
I remember years ago when Republicans and their rich benefactors wanted to open up the national parks to development. Thank god that sensible heads prevailed. I recall a photoshopped photo of Yosemite with a Mc Donalds ad across it's face. BLM while not perfect, helps insure that Federal lands stay protected.
19
Thank you thank younger this enlightening perspective. The myth is comingled with these followers who practice the insidious "posse comitatus" which has roots in the Jim Crow south. Check out videos of Daddy Bundys comments on "the negro" and get a sense of who these people really are. The Arian nation is using the romantic myth to cloak their more anarchical agenda. They are no different than radical Islamists who appropriate a narrative to justify their violent acts.
15
So it all boils down to the militia protesters don't like the law and have vowed to oppose it, by any means necessary? All the while insinuating "John Wayne" ideology? "We're burnin daylight" and "a man's gotta do, what a man's gotta do"!
Sounds like, "I'll tell you what, "SON", "countrified" "Ferguson", "MOB ACTION" to me! Most folks can understand the protesters point, but they have chosen an unlawful and poor-way of letting cooler heads prevail, "PARDNER"!
Sounds like, "I'll tell you what, "SON", "countrified" "Ferguson", "MOB ACTION" to me! Most folks can understand the protesters point, but they have chosen an unlawful and poor-way of letting cooler heads prevail, "PARDNER"!
4
That great fake cowboy Reagan was responsible for legitimizing the utterly bogus Sagebrush Rebellion, and it's mythology of "fiercely independent modern day cowboys." The reality has always been a bunch of welfare ranchers, who, because they live next to federal land, think they can abuse it to their heart's content. Now, of course, they swagger around with military weapons, threatening federal land managers, the people who protect these lands for their actual owners- the American people.
31
Armed takeover of a gov't facility, ready to use violence and take lives in defense of an ideology. Sounds like terrorism to me.
33
Who needs your stinking history when the myth of "poor victim me" and the unfocused anger of "white male reality deficit" can so easily be stoked to the point of illegal behavior of all sorts by the right wing "myth baiters and hate mongers.
As a historian, with facts so clearly known, don't you wonder when the Republican Party started wishing on the star of delusion for their salivation instead of actually being useful to the American people.
As a historian, with facts so clearly known, don't you wonder when the Republican Party started wishing on the star of delusion for their salivation instead of actually being useful to the American people.
20
I've found that the difference between the Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats want to govern and Republicans want to control.
Republicans, once they have control, will sometimes do what's best for the country, but they don't want to bogged down by facts and opposing ideas because they believe they already have all the answers.
Republicans, once they have control, will sometimes do what's best for the country, but they don't want to bogged down by facts and opposing ideas because they believe they already have all the answers.
The dispute goes directly to much larger forces than this article presupposes. The ethos of wilderness conservation in the pacific northwest and Alaska circa 1900 caused the same selfish reactions in men, and evoked violent exchanges between the federal regulators and the private sector intent on exploiting and fulfilling manifest destiny by reducing protected lands to barren wastelands, all for their own selfish interests. The private sector refused the offer to lease the land. Problem is, and out of all of history, noone ever has provided a valid justification for selfishness.
8
Round these outlaws up and put them in the pokey. There is plenty of grazing land outside of federal property and this protest by the Bundy gang centers on the law doing its job arresting the arsonist. This ain't Dodge City 1870...
21
There are many fine family ranchers across the west struggling to stay in a difficult business and pass it on to their children. Well-run operations can provide wildlife benefits and keep open space free of track home developments and other visual pollution. In some cases, subsidized grazing on public lands helps good ranchers provide these benefits for all of us as well as a grass-fed or grass-finished meat supply. However, there is a small group of domestic terrorists who are simply anti-government and believe they are entitled to destroy our natural resources for their private gain. In most cases, this mentality has lead to reducing or destroying the very resource they depend on. A horrible legacy of diminished plant growth, weed invasion, water resource decline, and soil loss has ruined millions of acres of public lands. If these terrorists were not white males I believe the federal government would take steps quickly to curbs this abuse. Instead federal land managers are physically threatened and our national legacy is allowed to literally blow away. We need to send a clear signal that a few gun-toting yahoos playing cowboy will not be allowed to set federal grazing policy.
52
This story reinforces what I believe is becoming the state of the right wing of this country. Regardless of the issue they demand a return to a past that never was. When I lived in the west I had two concerns. 1) Would the company that owned the mineral rights under my house decide to come and dig for resources in my backyard? 2) Would I be caught with my illegal rainbarrel as I captured some of the rain that came off the roof to water the garden. You see the water rights are owned by some farmer, rancher or corporation somewhere downstream and it is illegal for me to intercept their water...even if it is only a temporary diversion.
21
The water belongs to anyone who needs water who is downstream from you, including people like you, hence it is not yours once it is runoff
First, I don't know Colorado law, but here in California, the people who own your mineral rights cannot disrupt the surface of your land.
Second, out here in the West water is owned by the first one to claim it. Living on a creek, river of a lake does not give the right to use the water. So, if you trap run off, you may just be stealing water from someone who has water rights downhill from you. In the East where they have lots of water the laws are just the opposite.
Second, out here in the West water is owned by the first one to claim it. Living on a creek, river of a lake does not give the right to use the water. So, if you trap run off, you may just be stealing water from someone who has water rights downhill from you. In the East where they have lots of water the laws are just the opposite.
Dear Ms. Langston,
Thank you for the history of this part of the "Wild West" of which I was not familiar.
I find it interesting that Mr. Bundy decries "federal government interference" in local issues yet hales from Nevada, not Oregon. Okay, Nevada borders Oregon but, as usual, with fellows of his type, what is "overreaching federal power" is trumped by his own "interpretation" of what is, exactly, "local".
I guess the "bottom line" for these militia types is the "bottom line". Look for the "money trail", versus the "Oregon Trail", and one will find the REAL reason behind all of this; "If'n I don't pay taxes, I get to keep the money".
Yee-hah, while the rest us poor saps who DO pay their fair share support these Stetson wearing buffoons in their "tax avoidance".
Sure, really, it's all about "states rights". I think we fought a war about this some 150 years ago, didn't we?
Thank you for the history of this part of the "Wild West" of which I was not familiar.
I find it interesting that Mr. Bundy decries "federal government interference" in local issues yet hales from Nevada, not Oregon. Okay, Nevada borders Oregon but, as usual, with fellows of his type, what is "overreaching federal power" is trumped by his own "interpretation" of what is, exactly, "local".
I guess the "bottom line" for these militia types is the "bottom line". Look for the "money trail", versus the "Oregon Trail", and one will find the REAL reason behind all of this; "If'n I don't pay taxes, I get to keep the money".
Yee-hah, while the rest us poor saps who DO pay their fair share support these Stetson wearing buffoons in their "tax avoidance".
Sure, really, it's all about "states rights". I think we fought a war about this some 150 years ago, didn't we?
26
It is complete hypocrisy by the crowds of this type that they managed wildlife and te ecology properly. All the missing flora and fauna and the polluted air and waters since the west was "taken" have shown. These same people turn around and complain about China.
In any event te scene of the dead coyotes is a perfect example of their mindsets. If you don't like something - just annihilate it. All they needed to do is something farmers and shepherds have done for thousands of years - which is to use guardian dogs. Instead they prefer bloodshed.
In any event te scene of the dead coyotes is a perfect example of their mindsets. If you don't like something - just annihilate it. All they needed to do is something farmers and shepherds have done for thousands of years - which is to use guardian dogs. Instead they prefer bloodshed.
6
I have managed cattle operations in Alabama and in New Mexico, and I use public land for recreation. I am a fan of public land, I want my tax dollars spent there, and I don’t want to see a net loss of one acre: The American Public has a right to own land.
Managing cattle in the West has its difficulties, mainly due to extremes in stocking rates, in temperature, in precipitation, which makes financial planning hard for the rancher. You commit to a certain number of livestock, but you may or may not have the forage to feed them if the moisture does not come.
Running cattle on public land is a challenge as well, you get a deal on the grazing costs, but public access is an issue—gates left open, fences cut, a group of ATVs roaring past just as your cattle get to the gate and are then scattered—all this costs time and money for the rancher, not to mention management constraints.
All this said, my observations are that the problems come in at the margin, at the point of economic maximization of the rancher verses the land management goals of the public agency involved. The rancher wants to maximize profit; the public land manager wants to maximize ecosystem services for the public—herein lies the problem. As a ranch manager I would urge public land permittees to put land health over economic maximization for their own long term financial viability and the public’s right to healthy functioning ecosystems, or go lease private ground.
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
Managing cattle in the West has its difficulties, mainly due to extremes in stocking rates, in temperature, in precipitation, which makes financial planning hard for the rancher. You commit to a certain number of livestock, but you may or may not have the forage to feed them if the moisture does not come.
Running cattle on public land is a challenge as well, you get a deal on the grazing costs, but public access is an issue—gates left open, fences cut, a group of ATVs roaring past just as your cattle get to the gate and are then scattered—all this costs time and money for the rancher, not to mention management constraints.
All this said, my observations are that the problems come in at the margin, at the point of economic maximization of the rancher verses the land management goals of the public agency involved. The rancher wants to maximize profit; the public land manager wants to maximize ecosystem services for the public—herein lies the problem. As a ranch manager I would urge public land permittees to put land health over economic maximization for their own long term financial viability and the public’s right to healthy functioning ecosystems, or go lease private ground.
Michael Bain
Glorieta, New Mexico
355
Thank you for your excellent comment. It certainly gives city dwellers some insight.
I certainly agree with you that the public's right to a healthy functioning ecosystem should be their priority because, I firmly belief that since ranchers are in the business to make money, that the aforementioned is not necessarily their goal. Lastly, National Wildlife Refuges should not be for sale for they are there for all Americans to see and experience.
I certainly agree with you that the public's right to a healthy functioning ecosystem should be their priority because, I firmly belief that since ranchers are in the business to make money, that the aforementioned is not necessarily their goal. Lastly, National Wildlife Refuges should not be for sale for they are there for all Americans to see and experience.
2
Thank you for presenting a historical context for events in the Malheur Bowl. The source of much tension in the West has been changing values that have affected the way of life of many western residents. Anyone gets angry when outside forces make one's job disappear. Democrats, who vigorously support efforts to limit free trade because of lost jobs, just as vigorously support environmental efforts that cause many lost jobs.
There are things the rest of us can do. If you are using wood, make sure it is sustainably harvested. If this makes your new house more expensive, maybe you should build a smaller house out of better stuff. Similarly with beef. Buy only sustainably raised beef. It will be much more expensive, but will be better for you and as the demand grows, ranchers will change their practices. They know a market when they see one.
So rather than just complaining about those who are using "our" federal land badly, make changes in your own life that support using resources that belong to all of us well.
There are things the rest of us can do. If you are using wood, make sure it is sustainably harvested. If this makes your new house more expensive, maybe you should build a smaller house out of better stuff. Similarly with beef. Buy only sustainably raised beef. It will be much more expensive, but will be better for you and as the demand grows, ranchers will change their practices. They know a market when they see one.
So rather than just complaining about those who are using "our" federal land badly, make changes in your own life that support using resources that belong to all of us well.
7
Those 25 million birds belong to all of us. These thugs would destroy their habitat just to run a few thousand more cattle. Much like Bundy's earlier wish to run his cattle across an area set aside for endangered tortoises. These people care for nothing but their wallets. They cannot be allowed to trash our common heritage.
28
The only Constitutional "right" these out of state interlopers have, just like the rest of us, is to buy land.
The taxpayers and citizens of the US owe them nothing.
Free loading on public lands is not a right.
The taxpayers and citizens of the US owe them nothing.
Free loading on public lands is not a right.
21
From the little I've heard of the people who actually live there they tend towards collaborative solutions and still respect the rule of law. It seems to be a ploy of the Bundys to use the discontent over the Hammond issue to further their goal of taking over federal land for personal gain. They want to become one of those cattle barons and control all the natural resources.
7
The Bundys do not live in Oregon, nor do they have any cattle operations in Oregon. They are literally outside agitators, and most of the townsfolk see them as such.
1
The Sagebrush Rebellion is better seen as just another iteration of the Range Wars, between cattlemen and sheep men and between cattlemen and farmers.
It is about who gets to use the commons, and what they get to use it for.
The last range war killing between cattlemen and sheep men was in 1909, in Wyoming, Spring Creek Raid, also known as the Tensleep Murders.
The issue and behavior have not changed. That is what must be settled, both the use of the commons and the use of force.
It is about who gets to use the commons, and what they get to use it for.
The last range war killing between cattlemen and sheep men was in 1909, in Wyoming, Spring Creek Raid, also known as the Tensleep Murders.
The issue and behavior have not changed. That is what must be settled, both the use of the commons and the use of force.
16
Great article and super solution.
14
Thank you for the article that gives the history of the issue. I have found that very few people ever actually know the history of what they are fighting about. They rely on myth, family stories, and nostalgia. It is a very bad idea to plan actions and the future on paper mache history.
107
Well said, SJS. And very informative piece Dr. Langston. I live in the east, in an urban and environment, and have very little knowledge on the subject. Your succinct article was a very good primer.
Another thought: it is time to "persuade" the so-called Oregon occupiers to leave. Perhaps without water or electricity they will be hastened in that decision; and when they do, they should each be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Another thought: it is time to "persuade" the so-called Oregon occupiers to leave. Perhaps without water or electricity they will be hastened in that decision; and when they do, they should each be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
These clowns should not be allowed to continue their charade. This is our land, not theirs. Who are they to take over government (our) property and insist that their view prevail? The government needs to surround this place, turn off electricity and water, no one goes in or out. Give them a reasonable time frame to surrender and then go in and arrest them. This country is suffering from a lack of enforcement of existing laws, from immigration to this type of nonsense.
Justice needs to be swift and sure.
Justice needs to be swift and sure.
119
I'm an ecologist and agree with Ms. Langston but to "go in and arrest them" is misguided. they will give up when they get hungry enough. sometimes, "swift justice" just makes martyrs. those of us that love wild places already have enough on our plates, without adding martyrs.
1
Sadly this is a perfect example of why Mankind will never rid itself of war. We will always fight over limited resources to maximize our own well being. And this condition exists worldwide and not just in the Western states. Establishing commonly owned (federal) lands was a way to progressively deal with this issue. And it has worked in America for a long time.
However, the Republican party in this country has been pandering for votes in a desperate attempt to completely control the federal government. As part of this, anti government types have been emboldened to "take back the country." So America devolves as more and more of its people run around with loaded guns on their hips. It was a better country before the Republicans decided to monopolize power at any cost. That cost may be steep.
However, the Republican party in this country has been pandering for votes in a desperate attempt to completely control the federal government. As part of this, anti government types have been emboldened to "take back the country." So America devolves as more and more of its people run around with loaded guns on their hips. It was a better country before the Republicans decided to monopolize power at any cost. That cost may be steep.
1
I agree 100% except for the part of going in and arresting them. We don't want any more right-wing martyrs. Keep them isolated for as long as it takes to give themselves up. If they starve, so much the better, but it will never come to that.
1
Thanks for providing the context for their complaints. It illustrates how vital it is to protect certain areas for all Americans to enjoy, not just the few to abuse.
67
Just like everything else in America this is about greed. Ranchers pay a pittance to the government for grazing rights so they can get at the virtually free grass that belongs to all of us. Their cattle destroy riparian habitat and ruin waterholes that they don't own. If they had to purchase land to do their business, it would cost them dearly so they rely on government welfare. Then they get mad when the welfare ends. They pretend to be rugged and independent when in reality they are the most dependent on government handouts of anyone. This land belongs to me and you as much as any rancher. I'm not allowed to exploit it so why are they? Greed.
279
Thank you and tight lines, sir.
These despicable people should be arrested and charged with sedition or treason ans sent to jail for a very long time. They want lands? Let them buy it or lease at at market prices. Why should they get free land? What every happened to their free market, capitalist,rugged individualist posturing? This is about greed and entitlement , not principle. They are parasites who want they taxpayers to subsidize their industry.
148
Obviously, hindsight tells us that the anarchists at the Bundy standoff should have been videod by FBI and individually arrested later, tried, convicted and given maximum prison terms. Makes sense for deterrence. No to violent confrontation! Yes to arresting domestic armed terrorists. Just ask any serious birder how they feel about armed men occupying a wildlife refuge!
Th squatters who think the U.S. government should turn over the land that belongs to the People of America to private interests are criminals and should be removed forthwith. The Bundys are ignorant, selfish cretins and should go to jail.
91
Exactly.
A sensible survey that puts the current controversy in context. It appears that, in this case, the standard criticism that federal officials display a bureaucratic mindset, indifferent to the needs of local people, distorts reality. The negotiations of 2013 demonstrate a willingness to consider the needs of all the interest groups involved.
The fact that the Bundys and their supporters do not qualify as one of those groups, are in fact outsiders, underscores the ideological character of their grievances. They claim the government has deprived 'the people' of the use of these lands, but the people of Oregon appear to have little sympathy for their crusade.
Stripped of their bogus appeals to American values, these men belong to a common class of people who resist any outside authority because it interferes with their ability to exploit the resources of an area. Their seizure of a federal facility, combined with a blanket rejection of the legitimacy of the national government, brand them as insurrectionists. The failure to arrest Bundy, Sr., for similar actions two years ago encouraged his son to try his own little rebellion. While a military solution should be avoided if at all possible, these men should not escape arrest and trial.
The fact that the Bundys and their supporters do not qualify as one of those groups, are in fact outsiders, underscores the ideological character of their grievances. They claim the government has deprived 'the people' of the use of these lands, but the people of Oregon appear to have little sympathy for their crusade.
Stripped of their bogus appeals to American values, these men belong to a common class of people who resist any outside authority because it interferes with their ability to exploit the resources of an area. Their seizure of a federal facility, combined with a blanket rejection of the legitimacy of the national government, brand them as insurrectionists. The failure to arrest Bundy, Sr., for similar actions two years ago encouraged his son to try his own little rebellion. While a military solution should be avoided if at all possible, these men should not escape arrest and trial.
97
Well written and cogent. All Americans are stewards and obligated owners of the lands protected by governmental regulation and management. Suppose I find it desirable to build a ferris wheel in front of the Statue of Liberty, on government land. Should I occupy the island with force and weapons because I believe my proposal is going to help me increase my income, and thus survive in the ferris wheel construction business? Have I no obligation to history, and contempoary cultural realities? Would my selfish persona; interest, trump the common good?
1
That's it. Failure to arrest C. Bundy emboldened more of the same. Let's put a stop to this idiocy now or more "militias" will begin to take matters into their own hands, endangering the rest of us.
1
From The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, "when the myth and the truth collide, print the myth". The rugged individual myth really plagues this country, not just in the "wild" west. We stand on the shoulders of giants in every endeavor. Unfortunately those on top set policy to favor themselves. Ignorance eggs them on with tacit and sometimes overt support. Politicians fold up and pander. Bullies thrive, and then the guns come out. I think the only path with these idiots, starve them out. All services are cut off. No visitors or supplies allowed. Starve/sweat them out, then arrest, try, convict, incarcerate and fine them. And after you deal with the bankers and industrialists, go after the "militia: members in Oregon.
43
The head 'Vigilante' in this instance, Ammon Bundy, whose father called upon ALL those who hate Government to show up at his Nevada Ranch near Bunkerville, Nevada in order to prevent the Government from collecting the Million plus dollars he owed in Grazing Fees. Rather than a Blood Bath the Government backed down from these Idiots in cowboy hats with guns at the ready.
Ammon Bundy has now found what might be called by some as a Lifetime job. One would assume that his Auto Business in Phoenix was not as financially rewarding, nor presented him in the light that might just bring fame.
For a man who hates Government it is rather strange that just a few years ago, he petitioned for a Small Business Loan from our Government in the amount of $200,000 and received the loan. HMMM, I guess Government is OK when it comes to providing folks like the Bundy clan money with which they can draw the Spotlight, make headlines and call on a small horde of folks who prefer the description as a Militia rather than what they really are, - just a bunch of ignorant Vigilantes who since they have nothing better to do than bring about a laughable show of force, and pretend to be Patriots.
This reader would like to know where the Government stands on the Collection of Grazing Fees, (approximately $1 Million dollars), that the Bundy Clan in Nevada owes the U.S. Taxpayer.
Ammon Bundy has now found what might be called by some as a Lifetime job. One would assume that his Auto Business in Phoenix was not as financially rewarding, nor presented him in the light that might just bring fame.
For a man who hates Government it is rather strange that just a few years ago, he petitioned for a Small Business Loan from our Government in the amount of $200,000 and received the loan. HMMM, I guess Government is OK when it comes to providing folks like the Bundy clan money with which they can draw the Spotlight, make headlines and call on a small horde of folks who prefer the description as a Militia rather than what they really are, - just a bunch of ignorant Vigilantes who since they have nothing better to do than bring about a laughable show of force, and pretend to be Patriots.
This reader would like to know where the Government stands on the Collection of Grazing Fees, (approximately $1 Million dollars), that the Bundy Clan in Nevada owes the U.S. Taxpayer.
101
Yours is the best, most informational response. I had forgotten some of the facts in these cases.
Some things that must be done: 1. grazing fees on government land should be raised to market level. There must be no giveaways to ranchers. I pay my taxes and all fees due; Mr Bundy and his cohorts must pay their due fees. If someone does not pay the fees from the previous year(s) that ranch must be barred from entering the preserve. 2. It is called a "reserve" for a reason. It is land that is to be reserved for all Americans. This includes the native tribes in the area as well as city dwellers who might like to see it. 3. Grazing is not necessarily the best use of land if the animals are bunched together. 4. All of the wildlife has a place in the ecosystem. This means that wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears all belong there. Your cattle are not truly wild animals--they are an introduced species and do not necessarily contribute positively to the overall ecosystem. Research demonstrates that wild areas are much healthier when coyotes, cougars, wolves cull the population of the weak members.
The Federal government must collect all fees that are due and charge interest on all overdue fees. They insist that if I make a math mistake on my IRS forms and underpay taxes by even a few dollars I must pay. Mr. Bundy and his cohorts are not in a special category that exempts them from paying taxes.
Some things that must be done: 1. grazing fees on government land should be raised to market level. There must be no giveaways to ranchers. I pay my taxes and all fees due; Mr Bundy and his cohorts must pay their due fees. If someone does not pay the fees from the previous year(s) that ranch must be barred from entering the preserve. 2. It is called a "reserve" for a reason. It is land that is to be reserved for all Americans. This includes the native tribes in the area as well as city dwellers who might like to see it. 3. Grazing is not necessarily the best use of land if the animals are bunched together. 4. All of the wildlife has a place in the ecosystem. This means that wolves, coyotes, cougars, bears all belong there. Your cattle are not truly wild animals--they are an introduced species and do not necessarily contribute positively to the overall ecosystem. Research demonstrates that wild areas are much healthier when coyotes, cougars, wolves cull the population of the weak members.
The Federal government must collect all fees that are due and charge interest on all overdue fees. They insist that if I make a math mistake on my IRS forms and underpay taxes by even a few dollars I must pay. Mr. Bundy and his cohorts are not in a special category that exempts them from paying taxes.
7
People like this are so ignorant that they likely do not even know the loan they got was from the government! Just like the Obama hating folks in Kentucky who like the Medicaid expansion due the Affordable Care Act but hate Obamacare and the elderly folks who protested during the debate prior to the passing of the ACA holding signs that read ' Government, hands off my medicare'! I doubt they would refuse to take advantage of such government assistance, even if they were aware! Igorance sure is bliss to these people!
Thanks for this enlightening article.
33
Bravo, Ms. Langston, for your rigorous scholarship and sobering wisdom. This brief history of competing interests over regional and local resources is a case study in how government works to balance competing forces to preserve common good for a sustainable future. Indeed, it is the sole purpose of government, and should be duly recognized when it's done effectively, as here. To paraphrase O. W. Holmes, "I pay taxes because I prefer civilization." It sure helps when you have great managers!
51
This is a supreme example of what happens when the tactics of the extremist rightwingers spreads like cancer through our society, where the notion of negotiating for half a loaf is totally rejected because in their minds they are somehow owed a whole loaf and assume they are entitled to destroy our government if they don't get their way. These clowns need to know in no uncertain terms that they lost.
1
Whatever the frustrations of the ranchers, you can't just take something that doesn't belong to you by force of arms. Let us say for the sake of argument with the federal government decided not to hold these lambs anymore. They would go on the open market at whatever price the highest bidder would pay. The people who would get the land would not be ranchers and farmers, but members of the 1% happy to get a preserve of their own that had not been despoiled by mining and clearcutting.
25
As Dr. Langston notes, there would be no there there if the federal government had not stepped in and protected the land and water and wildlife of that beautiful, bleak stretch of land. Those who forget our history are doomed to repeat it, again and again and again.
67
There would be a there that belonged to the indigenous people's of that area if the Federal Government had not conquered it in the first place. But if a bunch of Native Americans took over these buildings armed and declaring they would kill our be killed, they would already be dead, and the ranchers would think it righteous.
The misrepresentation of history continues to cause violent strife again proving that a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous. Our founding fathers faced similar anti government conflict during Shay's and the Whiskey Rebellions. Both of these incidents were dealt with using government force as a resolution. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.
5
Thanks for this write-up. I echo Stuarts comments. Your piece is informative.
John~
American Net'Zen
John~
American Net'Zen
10
When I read about this story the other day what came to my mind was the song : this land is your land this land is mine.
The people occupying the buildings on the reserve do not believe in community only their own self interest and mythology. They will drain our wilderness areas and public resources and turn them into a wasteland in order to fill their own selfish needs.
I believe that these groups are encouraged if not supported by people like the Koch broths and corporations who will make a bundle of the public lands are open to their predation.
Arrest them now, lock the bums up as the terrorists they are.
The people occupying the buildings on the reserve do not believe in community only their own self interest and mythology. They will drain our wilderness areas and public resources and turn them into a wasteland in order to fill their own selfish needs.
I believe that these groups are encouraged if not supported by people like the Koch broths and corporations who will make a bundle of the public lands are open to their predation.
Arrest them now, lock the bums up as the terrorists they are.
50
Thank you for very informative article. I'm glad we have professors of environmental history!
28
I find myself wondering what is going on in the rural schools. Critical thinking, grammar, spelling, history -- all of it swallowed up by a gut driven anger at things not being "right". Is there any value at all given to education in American any more?
39
Put them in prison alongside The black panthers whose claims to injustice far surpassed these cretins. And my family were homesteaders in this region not that that matters one wit.
23
Neutral Compliance with the law must be the standard used by federal authorities. Give them credit for handling this small crisis with tact and discretion to date. That being said, all appropriate laws must be enforced. People elsewhere (like that unfortunate lady in Texas jailed - who subsequently committed suicide - for failure to comply with a law enforcement request to leave her own vehicle) are subject to the rule of law. We are either a nation of laws.....or we are not. Letting past violations not be enforced - like with the Bundys last go around, only lead to more illegality. If the Bundys owe money for cattle gazing, or to the SBA, that money needs to be collected by the federal government just as it would for any other taxpayer. The law is clear and our only light in a dark world. Please enforce it.
38
What failed in Oregon was the loss of vision, expertise and deft touch occasioned by the retirement of John Scharff – he may have over-protected the rights of some at the expense of other interests, but he was deft indeed at getting people to work together with government. This is basically the point this op-ed also makes.
Given free rein, without a gifted moderator balancing interests, opposed interests will explode. We saw this all over the West in the 19th and early 20th centuries with agricultural and settler interests opposed to grazing interests.
But the locals have a case when they claim that an excessive extent of state land in the West is managed, indeed owned, by the Feds – Oregon is over 60% publically owned land. The worst in the West is Nevada, which is over 87% publically owned (the absolute worst is Arkansas, which is over 95% publically owned). When this is the case, the opposed interests may well be unreasonably moderated by an authority that lies thousands of miles away and may be poorly sensitized to pecuniary interests, and the emotions that underpin them.
In the end, if the feds insist on their own priorities at the expense of locals who must live on or be dependent on public lands, there will be blood, even if the end result is a given. Unless that’s an acceptable outcome, a better sharing of power between federal and state authority over western lands might be a sensible option. In any case, the feds clearly need better moderators.
Given free rein, without a gifted moderator balancing interests, opposed interests will explode. We saw this all over the West in the 19th and early 20th centuries with agricultural and settler interests opposed to grazing interests.
But the locals have a case when they claim that an excessive extent of state land in the West is managed, indeed owned, by the Feds – Oregon is over 60% publically owned land. The worst in the West is Nevada, which is over 87% publically owned (the absolute worst is Arkansas, which is over 95% publically owned). When this is the case, the opposed interests may well be unreasonably moderated by an authority that lies thousands of miles away and may be poorly sensitized to pecuniary interests, and the emotions that underpin them.
In the end, if the feds insist on their own priorities at the expense of locals who must live on or be dependent on public lands, there will be blood, even if the end result is a given. Unless that’s an acceptable outcome, a better sharing of power between federal and state authority over western lands might be a sensible option. In any case, the feds clearly need better moderators.
2
Your viewpoint is completely inaccurate. Federal lands in the West are managed with a great deal of input from local communities including local and state government. Allowed uses are balanced for many stakeholders and users which is a very difficult task in many cases. The history of state and local control of lands is poor, with the resources, wildlife and aesthetic value used up to the point of making the land worthless to anyone or anything. In addition state and local government has nowhere near the resources for maintaining these lands including such activities as firefighting. The vast majority of westerners, myself included, support federal management with local stakeholder input and do NOT support armed takeover of a beloved Wildlife refuge by an extremely small group with only their own ignorant self interest as an agenda. Malheur Wildlife Refuge is an amazing place which has protected and allowed a diverse range of birds and other animals to thrive and with the draw of tourists is one of the few economic positives in a region that was just about used up.
9
Mr. Luettgen, your comment is articulate as always, but exposes your bias:
"...an *excessive* extent of state land in the West is managed, indeed owned, by the Feds..opposed interests may well be *unreasonably* moderated by an authority that lies thousands of miles away..."
Since the lands in question are federal public lands, they belong to all Americans. You refer to "the Feds" as if they were apart from you, and you apparently feel the pecuniary interests of "locals" give them superior rights on our land.
I, OTOH, consider the federal land management agencies to represent me and the other commenters here, even if we happen to live thousands of miles away. I don't see why even 95% federal ownership is "excessive". Nor do I feel it's "unreasonable" for the agencies to enforce sustainable grazing practices on public range lands, in order to conserve both the economic value of the land and the native biodiversity that existed before the ranchers arrived. They have a legal responsibility to do so, even if enforcement has been lax in the past.
One may be sensitive to the emotions of ranchers who depend on public lands for their livelihoods, but neither you nor they get to decide for the rest of us which grazing allotments should be permanently degraded, or which unique species should be allowed to become or extinct.
"...an *excessive* extent of state land in the West is managed, indeed owned, by the Feds..opposed interests may well be *unreasonably* moderated by an authority that lies thousands of miles away..."
Since the lands in question are federal public lands, they belong to all Americans. You refer to "the Feds" as if they were apart from you, and you apparently feel the pecuniary interests of "locals" give them superior rights on our land.
I, OTOH, consider the federal land management agencies to represent me and the other commenters here, even if we happen to live thousands of miles away. I don't see why even 95% federal ownership is "excessive". Nor do I feel it's "unreasonable" for the agencies to enforce sustainable grazing practices on public range lands, in order to conserve both the economic value of the land and the native biodiversity that existed before the ranchers arrived. They have a legal responsibility to do so, even if enforcement has been lax in the past.
One may be sensitive to the emotions of ranchers who depend on public lands for their livelihoods, but neither you nor they get to decide for the rest of us which grazing allotments should be permanently degraded, or which unique species should be allowed to become or extinct.
5
What's at stake here is not the priorities of the "feds", but the priorities of all Americans, as written into law. And whether the priorities of locals is at all relevant to Malheur is debatable, as the Bundys and many of the other occupiers have come from hundreds of miles away. Ammon Bundy is the owner of a valet car service in Phoenix; his livelihood is not affected by land management issues in southeastern Oregon.
2
The people that are most hostile, most belligerent to "the Government", are often the loudest calling for Government to regulate and intervene in every other aspect of their fellow citizens' lives if those fellow citizens are living lives of which they don't approve. The Hardy/Bundy folks, you know, the types that are so angry about "the Government" inflicting injustice and unfairness on their right to do whatever the heck they want, are the scariest part of the electorate. The USA is chock full of gun-toting, Obama-Government-rules-hating, angry "citizens", made bilious on a steady diet of hurt feelings and rage. Believing that if there were no rules, policies or protections life would be a paradise, confirms the deep ignorance wherein the masses dwell. I've seen these western types up close and they give me the creeps. "All for me and none for thee". . . Just suppose the Government released those public lands to private ownership - these guys would be fenced out and barred quicker than a creosote chimney goes up in flames.
37
Sounds a lot like the over fishing of Georges Bank, with the resulting collapse of cod stocks. Without central management, the Malheur Lake region will likely revert to being a "dust bowl", and there'll be no grazing of cattle. The ranchers are their own worst enemy.
47
I read this with complete disbelief. It's as if residents of NYC or Boston were to start occupying public buildings in an attempt to reclaim (or better, claim) the original property in order to form their own nation. It's a mythic "you against me" attitude made possible by guns and crazy. It's a twisted reading of the Constitution and contorted sense of history that make armed folks feel they are impotent.
These nutcases don't seem to know about the rule of law. If you don't like the way land is managed in this country, well, try to change it the old fashioned way: elect people who share your views and pass legislation (good luck with that).
From the IRS to FEMA to the Department of Energy, laws passed by Congress are, in a nutshell, the law. Citizens don't have the right to abrogate land for themselves, challenge civic laws, and essentially, form their own sort of anarchy.
The authorities should put a stop this once and for all, as it's setting a poor example for the rest of the country. Nobody, particularly the Bundy clan, is above the law. I don't care how "angry" they and others are. If you want to see anger, then keep ignoring them as they flout the law.
These nutcases don't seem to know about the rule of law. If you don't like the way land is managed in this country, well, try to change it the old fashioned way: elect people who share your views and pass legislation (good luck with that).
From the IRS to FEMA to the Department of Energy, laws passed by Congress are, in a nutshell, the law. Citizens don't have the right to abrogate land for themselves, challenge civic laws, and essentially, form their own sort of anarchy.
The authorities should put a stop this once and for all, as it's setting a poor example for the rest of the country. Nobody, particularly the Bundy clan, is above the law. I don't care how "angry" they and others are. If you want to see anger, then keep ignoring them as they flout the law.
348
Whoops, erratum: last sentence in first paragraph: "that make armed folks feel they're all powerful."
17
Christine:
Having lived in dense Eastern urban enclaves my entire adult life, I can understand your dismay; but I was born and raised in Washington State, adjacent to Oregon, and I may have a broader perspective.
The unquestioned acceptance of an all-powerful federal government that we see manifested most intensely in our East and among our urbanites or dependent suburbanites is not by any means universal: a large part of our population holds very different federalist values, and sees a lot of validity in grass-roots rebellions against central authority. You can question its validity all you like, but it's been a recurrent basic theme throughout our history and it's not about to go gently into that good night.
Having lived in dense Eastern urban enclaves my entire adult life, I can understand your dismay; but I was born and raised in Washington State, adjacent to Oregon, and I may have a broader perspective.
The unquestioned acceptance of an all-powerful federal government that we see manifested most intensely in our East and among our urbanites or dependent suburbanites is not by any means universal: a large part of our population holds very different federalist values, and sees a lot of validity in grass-roots rebellions against central authority. You can question its validity all you like, but it's been a recurrent basic theme throughout our history and it's not about to go gently into that good night.
4
How is this different than Occupy Wallstreet? The authorities stood back and allowed them to interfere with businesses and people going to work. When the cameras go away, they will leave.
2
Seal off the perimeter, jam the cell phones, allow NO ONE in, and cut off utilities. Let them know that if they have not caused any damage, any one of them can approach the perimeter, surrender his guns, and walk free between now and Sunday. That would be taking the moral high ground, it would negate their pretensions of martyrdom, and the whole situation ends with a whimper and not a bang.
If they don't comply, just let them stew in their own juices.
If they don't comply, just let them stew in their own juices.
414
Agree- except for the walk free part. Actions have consequences. The federal government backed down when the leader of this insurrection's father Clive Bundy defied a court order and it just emboldens these extremists. They have to face prosecution.
5
Thanks. I was just about to write a comment almost word for word like yours. Saved me some typing. The only thing I might change is that I would give them 24 hours instead of til Sunday
The only problem with this approach will be creating a duel system of law enforcement.. one for city slickers and minorities, and one for western cowboys of the pale face type. WE all know that if these cowboys were of a different persuasion, e.g. inner city minorities... ..the feds would have gone in with guns blazing, shoot now and question later.
Thank you for this perspective. Mention of extirpated or extinct former inhabitants of 'the West' - Native Americans, bison, antelope, wolf, grizzly and dozens of bird and other species of unique and wonderful life - is rarely mentioned in these discussions. We have done a very sorry job of caring for our country's well being. Thugs that claim 'their rights' are frequently among those that lead the way in myth making about American exceptionalism.
270
I just typed almost the exact same words. Fact is most Americans don't care... Not about what happened to the Native American tribes - nor the animals that are fighting to recover their numbers.
3
Two of the west's great myths, The OK Corral and Billy the Kid, revolve around the government standing up to the likes of the Bundy's and forcing them to come to terms with modernity.
The Clancy brothers wanted to run their cattle wherever and whenever they wanted. Wyatt and his brothers showed helped them come to terms with reality.
The Clancy brothers wanted to run their cattle wherever and whenever they wanted. Wyatt and his brothers showed helped them come to terms with reality.
I wonder how the ranchers would take to a tribe of local American Indians, deciding they had been robbed of their lands by whites, took over the same building? Now these occupiers would have a legitimate claim, since history is still studied in parts of this land and we know it to be true.
Whatever small creature comforts are in that building, electricity and running water to name two, should be cut off and let the poor wittle ranchers sit there and camp, like the real cowboys used to, in the dead of winter. This article shows us what happens when there are no laws to help the environment. It is everyone for himself to take and rape the land as they see fit until there is nothing left, then expect the government to clean it back up and cry "No Fair" really loudly when they do.
Whatever small creature comforts are in that building, electricity and running water to name two, should be cut off and let the poor wittle ranchers sit there and camp, like the real cowboys used to, in the dead of winter. This article shows us what happens when there are no laws to help the environment. It is everyone for himself to take and rape the land as they see fit until there is nothing left, then expect the government to clean it back up and cry "No Fair" really loudly when they do.
490
To your "no Fair" point, In the newly passed spending bill, the Freedom Caucus radicals of the House tried to slip in this little gem: Prohibiting EPA from ensuring mining companies are financially capable of cleaning up pollution that operations cause to the land and water. (So much for the party of personal responsibility)
The long and extreme list of their other attempted riders are in:
http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/16/democrats-are-celebrating-these-conser...
The long and extreme list of their other attempted riders are in:
http://dailysignal.com/2015/12/16/democrats-are-celebrating-these-conser...
3
Better yet, have the indians take over the Bundy ranches
3
I'm just waiting for those idiots to start chainsawing the big old trees that surround the refuge headquarters. That grove is one of the biggest attractions for birds at Malheur.
Leave the power on if it prevents this predictable result of 'privatization'.
It's hard to tell how much effort the feds will make to actually protect the wildlife, but letting ranchers 'manage' it would be a cruel joke.
Leave the power on if it prevents this predictable result of 'privatization'.
It's hard to tell how much effort the feds will make to actually protect the wildlife, but letting ranchers 'manage' it would be a cruel joke.
5
MEN... yeech strutting around with guns on their hips ready to fight, what's new I ask you... and their "women" hone baking bread... what a picture.
41
They only look like they're ready to fight.
They think they're all John Wayne.
Trust me as soon as the first Marine shows up with his game face on, these cowBOYS will roll over and show their bellies.
They think they're all John Wayne.
Trust me as soon as the first Marine shows up with his game face on, these cowBOYS will roll over and show their bellies.
6
They learned this life style from watching old John Wayne movies and playing cowboy when they were young. Now they claim it is their heritage and way of life that is 'under attack' by the much hated Federal government.
2
As they say in Texas, the gun-toting' cowards are all hat, no cattle. For them, the rule of law will only work when they make the laws. Evidently they never heard of democracy. What is their motivation to want to live in America and will they ever come here? It isn't easy to break out of a closed mind and set it free.
91
Most ranchers, I learned during my career as a cowboy around the West, are predisposed to worry and complaint. That's no surprise in a world where nature, not to mention markets, have you at their constant mercy.
Thus the "lashing out" described here. Almost everywhere I worked, there was a palpable paranoia toward virtually all wildlife, and I was routinely instructed to kill, by poison, shot or slug, "gophers," prairie dogs, skunks, snakes, coyotes and other species.
Never mind that: In killing predators I was harming the ecosystem's ability to reduce prey species; or that the worst coyote damage (usually) seen were calves with bobbed ears and tails, indicating a mother cow who wasn't doing her job; or that I never — not once — saw a horse or her animal break a leg in a "gopher" hole; or that rattlesnakes sometimes bit cows in the face, but never killed them.
As the history of Malheur makes clear, and contrary to libertarian fantasies, when society entrusts the conservation of wildlife to private interests, the result is typically devastation.
In truth, preservation of land, combined with unbelievable subsidies under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, under the federal government has helped to conserve wildlife and support smaller ranching operations.
Are there too many rules? Is the bureaucracy too heavy handed? I've seen that, too. But overall, the whiny rancher class should count its blessings.
Thus the "lashing out" described here. Almost everywhere I worked, there was a palpable paranoia toward virtually all wildlife, and I was routinely instructed to kill, by poison, shot or slug, "gophers," prairie dogs, skunks, snakes, coyotes and other species.
Never mind that: In killing predators I was harming the ecosystem's ability to reduce prey species; or that the worst coyote damage (usually) seen were calves with bobbed ears and tails, indicating a mother cow who wasn't doing her job; or that I never — not once — saw a horse or her animal break a leg in a "gopher" hole; or that rattlesnakes sometimes bit cows in the face, but never killed them.
As the history of Malheur makes clear, and contrary to libertarian fantasies, when society entrusts the conservation of wildlife to private interests, the result is typically devastation.
In truth, preservation of land, combined with unbelievable subsidies under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, under the federal government has helped to conserve wildlife and support smaller ranching operations.
Are there too many rules? Is the bureaucracy too heavy handed? I've seen that, too. But overall, the whiny rancher class should count its blessings.
703
An informative comment from someone who actually has some experience with these kind of people. Thank you for your submission.
5
Left to their own devices, these cowboys, loggers, land barons, etc. would leave the west In ruiins. This is an informative and fair column regarding the challenges between conservation and land usage. The Bundy clan owes us a lot of money and now this illegal action calls for jail time. Their myopic arrogance is breathtaking. Btw Ammon, if the BLM movement pulled something like this, the raid would long ago have happened by authorities.
1
Fifteen years ago, two percent of public lands ranchers controlled fifty percent of permitted grazing acreage. Today, that elite group has consolidated its hold on federal grazing property. Smaller operations are struggling, most supplementing ranch income with other jobs. So no — Small ranching operations aren't doing well. But the rich ones sure are.
http://dailypitchfork.org/?p=698
http://dailypitchfork.org/?p=698
Thank you, Prof. Langston, for this clearly written illumination of the issues. This is an excellent example of how history is important, and provides clear implication for why there are strong efforts leveled against the teaching of good history in our schools. Once ideologues, whether of the "get the government off our backs" variety, or of the "Obama caused the recession, and health care was fine in America before Obamacare" variety get to control of history, all sorts of distortions about what are our problems and how we might deal with them get spread . . . , and people vote for the likes of Trump an Cruz. You can see why some want to control the history curriculum or eliminate it all together. By understanding our past we are better able to understand how we got to where we are, and with clear thinking that can result from this we should be better able to deal with our present and prepare for our future. In this Oregon wildlife refuge we see a clear example of how bad history (not really "myth") is connected with totally misplaced anger and demands. If only reason prevailed!
135
James Madison wrote: "If men were angels, no government would be necessary." But history repeatedly confirms humans are not angels, that too little government too often releases the worst in human nature. The result is survival-of-the-strongest anarchy.
Government will always be imperfect because people are imperfect. But government is needed to tame the inevitable greed of the powerful few, protect the rights of the less powerful many, and (as the oft-misunderstood Constitution says) "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
The west was settled because people came together for the common good, not because a few pursued personal wealth and power at the expense of everyone else. There's a legitimate debate to be had over the specifications of government -- but rejecting the role of federal government in managing irreplaceable resources with a history of private mismanagement is not constructive or smart.
Government will always be imperfect because people are imperfect. But government is needed to tame the inevitable greed of the powerful few, protect the rights of the less powerful many, and (as the oft-misunderstood Constitution says) "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
The west was settled because people came together for the common good, not because a few pursued personal wealth and power at the expense of everyone else. There's a legitimate debate to be had over the specifications of government -- but rejecting the role of federal government in managing irreplaceable resources with a history of private mismanagement is not constructive or smart.
78
Actually - you are incorrect. The west was "settled" (strange term since other people already lived there) because people were indeed heading west looking for their fortune. Whether in land or gold or oil.
1
Spot on. Thank you.
2
I disagree with your fundamental point. "not because a few pursued personal wealth and power at the expense of everyone else." US history is full of the rich exploiting the rest of us. The railroads, owned by tycoons, grabbed up the best land, routes, etc.. One example. It's a tooth and nail fight every inch with the rich, they want everything and then make us pay rent to enjoy it.
3
THE FOLKS IN OREGON WHICH YOU SPEAK OF . . .
...conform to the stereotypical image of the western cowboy mentality ... where they are "real men" ... tough and unwashed ... with an huge "id" and little "superego."
...conform to the stereotypical image of the western cowboy mentality ... where they are "real men" ... tough and unwashed ... with an huge "id" and little "superego."
18
Ever been to Baker City, Oregon? I have, The people there are nice, friendly, helpful, hardworking and always ready to help someone in distress. They are conservative, religious and loyal to their country. They send their children to college so that they will have a better life.
Your comment would be the equivalent for me to say that all New Yorkers are pimps, whores, druggies and welfare bums. That statement would be as untrue as yours is.
Besides the occupiers are outsiders, not locals.
Your comment would be the equivalent for me to say that all New Yorkers are pimps, whores, druggies and welfare bums. That statement would be as untrue as yours is.
Besides the occupiers are outsiders, not locals.
2
Thanks for providing some context and historical perspective on this messy situation which has been elusive in the news reports of the past week.
54
For over 6 decades I resented the BLM letting ranchers lease government land, our land of all americans, for low prices. The ranchers killed off the mustangs and fenced in water holes on government lands to prevent mustangs and wildlife from getting water. All to raise more cattle at government expense for ranchers to make money.
Now it's ironic that the ranchers want more...Now they want title to the lands that they have used for years at low prices. The land belongs to all americans and it's time for us to take it back from the white male ranchers who have despoiled it by grazing and by arson.
Now it's ironic that the ranchers want more...Now they want title to the lands that they have used for years at low prices. The land belongs to all americans and it's time for us to take it back from the white male ranchers who have despoiled it by grazing and by arson.
608
Another irony here is that some of these "cowboys" aren't ranchers. Ammon Bundy is a truck mechanic. Has a business that services semis.
10
It is also high time that Bundy pere be required to pay his grazing fees in arrears. These are not patriots but freeloaders.
12
Exactly, The BLM is still destroying the mustangs in promoting the lie that they are overpopulating with only around 30-40,000 left. At the same time there are 10's of millions of livestock, oil/gas wells, mines, developments, etc. damaging the land, using unbelievable amounts of water, (the scarce resource) on the 100's of millions of acres of federal lands allotted to mustangs by the 1971 wild horse and burro protection act which passed unanimously and signed by Nixon. They do this because big moneyed interests control the BLM and don't want anything in the way of their exploitation.
3
Back a couple of decades ago when I lived in New England there was a lot of news about fishermen who where pushing back against conservation efforts. Many of these fishermen refused to recognize that they were overfishing and that the stock was being depleted. They were quite angry. This was understandable; those guys just wanted to keep there business going and reducing their catch would put many of them out of business.
I suspect that the ranchers in the west are in the same position. Sure, conserving the environment is a good idea in the long run, but keeping their ranches in business requires short term thinking.
I suspect that the ranchers in the west are in the same position. Sure, conserving the environment is a good idea in the long run, but keeping their ranches in business requires short term thinking.
129
But not reducing their catch would put future fishermen out of business forever.
Sorry but that's life.
A person who can't deal with the concept of a finite resource is not an adult but is a spoiled child and I have lost all patience with those people.
You know what, if your fishing business goes under, get another job tough guy.
I have had three jobs outsourced over the past 15 years but there were no John Cougar rock concerts for my profession. No endless hand wringing for the millions of Americans jobs lost because I didn't stick a seed in dirt
Sorry but that's life.
A person who can't deal with the concept of a finite resource is not an adult but is a spoiled child and I have lost all patience with those people.
You know what, if your fishing business goes under, get another job tough guy.
I have had three jobs outsourced over the past 15 years but there were no John Cougar rock concerts for my profession. No endless hand wringing for the millions of Americans jobs lost because I didn't stick a seed in dirt
16
Note that the New England fishermen never occupied any buildings or threatened violence.
13
Thanks to the restrictions, cod stocks are rebounding. If these ranchers have a viable business model they should be able to make it on their by hiring private grazing land.
12
Thank you. Thank you Nancy Langston. Thank you New York Times. This piece comes closest, of anything I have read or heard, to a balanced explanation of the issues. There are lots of aggrieved people across our country. We need articulate informed leaders to explain why seizing property and brandishing guns is not patriotic and is not going to make us great again.
671
Sally, we are great now. Don't get infected by the Donald's unserious proclamations. There's a good reason why every immigrant in the world wants to come to the US, and its not for welfare - its because we are the living example of freedom and opportunity, something guaranteed by our government - no matter what our useless presidential candidates say.
2
The anti-government crowd believes that the alternative to government leases is that they will have free use of the land.
Do they read newspapers? Assets in the US are being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands. While it is possible that the lands would be sold to the ranchers, it is more likely that they would be sold to a conglomerate, or a hedge fund, or a group of investors from China or Dubai.
The Bundys and their crowd would be leasing from some incarnation of Martin Shkreli or group of foreigners who don't have preservation of their way of life as a top priority.
One of the things most protecting the way of life that the anti-governmentistas are saying they want to protect, it the government. I guess they just aren't much for irony.
Do they read newspapers? Assets in the US are being consolidated into fewer and fewer hands. While it is possible that the lands would be sold to the ranchers, it is more likely that they would be sold to a conglomerate, or a hedge fund, or a group of investors from China or Dubai.
The Bundys and their crowd would be leasing from some incarnation of Martin Shkreli or group of foreigners who don't have preservation of their way of life as a top priority.
One of the things most protecting the way of life that the anti-governmentistas are saying they want to protect, it the government. I guess they just aren't much for irony.
239
The Malheur foolishness could easily turn into the death of the cowboy culture. For the past century, the mythology has grown -- the last real Americans: independent, tough, honest, plainspoken and wise, generous, the epitome of the American work ethic, endlessly inventive, fair. Yet here we see wanna-be soldiers who make flaky videos about fantasies of heroic sacrifice, deadbeats who sign leases and then refuse to pay the bills, speech-makers who invent wholesale historical nonsense to justify their tantrums, outdoorsmen who cannot grasp the ecological significance of predators, fools who use their 15 minutes to beg for snacks. Noble, plainspoken, hardworking ... not.
367
"... fools who use their 15 minutes to beg for snacks..." Brilliant comment!
4
"The Malheur foolishness could easily turn into the death of the cowboy culture."
Yep. And when have most cowboys, farmers, mine workers, hunters, and other regular-guy types not been politically self-destructive? (Full disclosure:I have hunted, farmed, shot, and done other such things since I was a kid) Their naive overestimation of their own autonomy makes them perfect marks for the 1%, and assures their eventual failure.
Yep. And when have most cowboys, farmers, mine workers, hunters, and other regular-guy types not been politically self-destructive? (Full disclosure:I have hunted, farmed, shot, and done other such things since I was a kid) Their naive overestimation of their own autonomy makes them perfect marks for the 1%, and assures their eventual failure.
6
Thank you Kraig. I am from a (very) rural background and often play the Devil's Advocate to my city-born friends. These idiots are not examples of the hardworking farmers and ranchers that actually care about the land and a future beyond their lifespan. They are driven by as much greed as the worst examples of our Wall Street neighbors.
8
Domestic terrorists employ a "myth", a narrative that they use to disguise armed defiance of law. The response of the Federal authorities is distressing to Americans. How is it possible for a handful of phony exploiters, white guys with guns, who evoke a story line about Federal land and crimes that their narrative weaves into an excuse for additional crimes. Our Constitution guarantees freedom of assembly and the right of citizens to seek redress grievances. There is no protection for armed occupation of Federal property. It is a crime. If the criminals are not brought to justice, more criminals will resort armed takeovers. In the face of multiple instances of unarmed Black Americans video taped being shot and killed, the example of white armed men defying law enforcement without consequence underlines institutional injustice.
Myths and legends about Federal Land and law are cheap propaganda when viewed from the context of a 12 year old Black child shot and killed when all he had was a toy gun. And then his killer was exonerated. All of this gun rights propaganda is being revealed as a racist ploy to assert white privilege.
This is outrageous!
Myths and legends about Federal Land and law are cheap propaganda when viewed from the context of a 12 year old Black child shot and killed when all he had was a toy gun. And then his killer was exonerated. All of this gun rights propaganda is being revealed as a racist ploy to assert white privilege.
This is outrageous!
177
You misunderstand. The Feds are cautious because they can't shut it down without simply rushing in and killing everyone a la Waco. No Plan A, just B. As we've seen, the reaction to them killing a bunch of white dudes will vary in timbre from all the killing of black people. So the authorities are stalling for time.
This whole conflict is one of the elements that can be said to reflect the mentality of Americans. Protect nature and wildlife, sure, but destroy it when your interests are touched in the least bit. These ranchers do not realize that, when they overgraze the land, they will be left with a near-desertified region. Where will they graze their precious cattle then? If the "loggers are permitted to log" all they want, the entire area will see erosion on a massive scale, especially with prevailing drought conditions. The scenario described in the article is what they would face.
Americans have always lived with an idea of "there is plenty more where this came from." Perhaps they had better get used to the fact that this is a myth. You over-exploit, you destroy, and you will be left with nothing.
Don't rave about my country's beauty. We have strict rules to keep it the way it is - try and preserve the wealth of beauty your own one has and don't destroy your heritage.
Americans have always lived with an idea of "there is plenty more where this came from." Perhaps they had better get used to the fact that this is a myth. You over-exploit, you destroy, and you will be left with nothing.
Don't rave about my country's beauty. We have strict rules to keep it the way it is - try and preserve the wealth of beauty your own one has and don't destroy your heritage.
139
1859. John Brown. Trial and execution by hanging for a cause far nobler than grazing rights. If these "Patriots" actually read the Constitution, they may discover there is only one crime defined in that document. It's treason.
91
Thank you for this informed and fascinating overview. Zooming in, I must applaud the FBI for holding their fire in the face of armed ideologues. Wildlife should be the priority on federal wildlife refuges, but all life is most precious, no matter the setting of confronter and confronted.
18
I don't understand the protesters/occupiers argument. They are allowed to lease public land at a cost lower than private land. They seem to confuse "publicly-owned" with "not owned by anyone" And feel they can do whatever they please with the land, including environmentally harmful activities. That land belongs to me and you as much as it does to them, and my vote would be that cattle weren't allowed on it whatsoever.
202
I learned all I needed to know about the Quixotes at Malheur when an NPR reported was turned away at the gate to these public lands by a gun-totin' thug with "...you can't go down there." And they want to return these lands to the people? Left to their own devices, and without the management of refuges like Malheur, cattle ranching would've dried up and blown away long ago like so much over-grazed soil. Public. Trust. Doctrine.
128
They didn't want the reporter to see them dancing around the burn barrel singing "Camptown Races", a la Slim Pickens in "Blazing Saddles".
It's 245 meters from the southern shore of the lake to the furthest out building on the property. There's a stand of trees for cover and the terrain doesn't vary by more than 15 feet for another 400 meters in all directions. A distracting show of air power to the south would facilitate a swift and effective deployment of a platoon of Marines. Instead of playing "Das Valkyrie" as they charged, I'd suggest "I get no kick from champagne".
It's 245 meters from the southern shore of the lake to the furthest out building on the property. There's a stand of trees for cover and the terrain doesn't vary by more than 15 feet for another 400 meters in all directions. A distracting show of air power to the south would facilitate a swift and effective deployment of a platoon of Marines. Instead of playing "Das Valkyrie" as they charged, I'd suggest "I get no kick from champagne".
1
Black college students were criticized for their media-free zones during protests last year. But the Oregon terrorists are being coddled and pampered.
3
This is a welcome history shedding light on the myths of the past that human nature so readily creates to preserve the egos of the present. But for one thing here...What of the larger context that goes unspoken except for one word in the last paragraph: tribes. The indigenous populations are literally a footnote in this picture.
41
This article seems at times to romanticize a lot of hooey from gun kook tea party types fighting over what Phil Terrie in another context has referred to as contested land.
3
It's the same anarchic cowboy myth: all Indians were god-free, pagan, bloodthirsty nomads, we made the West safe for women and kids, the church brought civilization to an empty wilderness, and them federals is tryin' to steal "our" land, our guns, our sustenance. In reality, the federal government has abetted the cowboy myth, assisted in stealing the land from the Indian nations, turned a blind eye to massacres, and, of late, subsidized grazing on public lands, and allowed natural reserves for birds, fish, game, and flora to deteriorate and disappear. But in the mindless mythology of the cowboy, the Yankees, the Easterners, the city-dwellers, the Congress -- "them" not "us" --are fencing in the Great American Cowboy heroes and their gun-toting militia-men friends.
Lots of Westerners don't buy that nonsense. I like most westerners I know, but a minority's selfish interests can't be allowed to blind others to what farmers and ranchers, sometimes forget, "This land is your land, this land is my land". Both residents and non-residents, and all 3, if we include the remnants of the once-sole owners, the First Nations Peoples. The federal government and the courts belong to you and me. Like the very land, air, water, flora, and fauna.
Lots of Westerners don't buy that nonsense. I like most westerners I know, but a minority's selfish interests can't be allowed to blind others to what farmers and ranchers, sometimes forget, "This land is your land, this land is my land". Both residents and non-residents, and all 3, if we include the remnants of the once-sole owners, the First Nations Peoples. The federal government and the courts belong to you and me. Like the very land, air, water, flora, and fauna.
101
The writer's website indicates her interest in helping the people of southeastern Oregon protect their watershed. All well and good. But when she is given a forum to tell the history of the region, she is sure to champion the watershed. The history of a region that is widely unknown and crucial to the understanding of an important conflict should be told by someone who puts historical accuracy first. There is no way I will view Ms. Langston's account as unbiased and credible.
3
Before you throw her article out, research the history of the region on your own. Only then can you make an informed opinion on the matter. Calling her biased on the subject without presenting conflicting evidence only makes you look the same.
16
The weekly U.S. Drought Monitor lists a large area in south-east Oregon, about 40% of the State, as experiencing 'extreme drought'. Concern over watersheds and overgrazing seems justified.
18
A partisan for the watershed? Quel horreur!
13
It seems the ranchers live in a fantasy land. Perhaps they watched too many Marlboro ads and too many westerns. Currently they are dependent upon federal handouts to exist. A western welfare class that grumbles it does not need the welfare. If they had not slept in history class perhaps they would know better.
Compounding this is the gun + religious right gang who are sure that they are divinely ordained to seize federal lands. I fear that this is going to get worse before it gets better. Hopefully the local and imported hotheads will simmer down and go back to work and quit whining. But I doubt it. It is hard to work when you feel called by God to save the world.
Compounding this is the gun + religious right gang who are sure that they are divinely ordained to seize federal lands. I fear that this is going to get worse before it gets better. Hopefully the local and imported hotheads will simmer down and go back to work and quit whining. But I doubt it. It is hard to work when you feel called by God to save the world.
82
Them, plus the Utah governor, attorney general, and legislature, who just authorized hiring out-of-state counsel with millions of my tax dollars to sue whomever and take 'back' the public land the feds 'stole' from us. It's pathetic.
5
I lived in NM for awhile, and there was always tension between ranchers and BLM because ranchers believe that they should be able to graze their cattle on federal lands for little or no cost. That's why these ranchers are holding out for "local" control of these federal lands. It's a buzz word for letting them do what they want on federal lands.
212
I see free range cattle on BLM land all the time when I hike and hunt around these parts. I've seen coyotes attack a calf and a rancher shoot them, as is his right under law. Nobody is putting their heads on stakes that I know of. Amazingly, we all seem to get along just fine, even though AZ's gun laws make Texas look positively restrictive. Keep in mind that water and feed are as scarce here as they are anywhere in the west, perhaps more so.
The "occupation" of the wildlife preserve has nothing to do with directly addressing the ranchers' grievances, it's no Boston Tea Party. It's about entitlement without responsibility, and getting your picture in the paper.
Most farmers and ranchers understand the nature if not the specifics of the history Ms. Langston recounts so succinctly. They also know about the dust bowl and how that developed and eventually got fixed. Most are eager to employ the latest in scientific and sustainable practices to maximize their returns without stepping on the necks of neighbors or abandoning the future. These are the "take what you need and leave the rest", salt of the earth folks who have. from time to time, gotten the fuzzy end of the lollipop, but keep plodding on as best they can.
If, in my travels across BLM land, I were to point a gun at a federal officer of any service, I'd expect to get shot. I get that they don't want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, but had they nipped the Bundys in the bud, this would have never happened. Arrest them all.
The "occupation" of the wildlife preserve has nothing to do with directly addressing the ranchers' grievances, it's no Boston Tea Party. It's about entitlement without responsibility, and getting your picture in the paper.
Most farmers and ranchers understand the nature if not the specifics of the history Ms. Langston recounts so succinctly. They also know about the dust bowl and how that developed and eventually got fixed. Most are eager to employ the latest in scientific and sustainable practices to maximize their returns without stepping on the necks of neighbors or abandoning the future. These are the "take what you need and leave the rest", salt of the earth folks who have. from time to time, gotten the fuzzy end of the lollipop, but keep plodding on as best they can.
If, in my travels across BLM land, I were to point a gun at a federal officer of any service, I'd expect to get shot. I get that they don't want another Waco or Ruby Ridge, but had they nipped the Bundys in the bud, this would have never happened. Arrest them all.
196
Has Cliven Bundy ever been held accountable for his actions? Does he still graze his cattle on public lands without paying grazing fees? Why is he and those who pointed their weapons at federal agents (a crime) not in prison? Doing nothing only emboldens those who try to get their way by force. Where are the armed personal carriers they brought onto the streets of Ferguson?
14
It is truly disturbing how so much ink is being spilled to excuse the fantasy cowboys who see themselves as above the law. They strut and threaten and yet unlike some individuals who engage in protests they brandish weapons openingly and threaten to shoot federal and local officials who would seek to enforce the law. Their behavior is clearly illegal and terrorism but they are painted as aggrieved romantics and given a wide berth. These men are dangerous and their "we make the laws" view puts each of us at risk.
I watched as Occupy Wall Street Protesters were demonized and brutalized arrested and prosecuted. Yet, these men brandish weapons and nothing happens. Bad guys with guns win again!
I watched as Occupy Wall Street Protesters were demonized and brutalized arrested and prosecuted. Yet, these men brandish weapons and nothing happens. Bad guys with guns win again!
551
If these are indeed "bad Guys with guns" and their actions would suggest this is the case, then the consequence of their actions should be the loss of their 2nd amendment rights.
7
Nancy, thanks for setting the historical record straight.
38
"They (= rural communities) felt powerless, hemmed in by policies they had little hand in shaping".
Where were/are their elected local, state and national representatives? Perhaps the locals should have had more of a say in establishing or implementing some of these policies. Perhaps they should now. Professor Langston makes reference to the collaboration with the "local community" in the 2013 management plan. Were the ranchers there?
"When mythic histories supplant the complexities of the past, the results can be lethal".
Today these mythic histories are called "narratives" and a professor's "mythic history" might be a rancher's legitimate narrative. Legitimate because it does not have to be correct or true but simply perceived as such.
It would seem then that the order of the day in general would be to find a way to get the rancher's to collaborate.
Where were/are their elected local, state and national representatives? Perhaps the locals should have had more of a say in establishing or implementing some of these policies. Perhaps they should now. Professor Langston makes reference to the collaboration with the "local community" in the 2013 management plan. Were the ranchers there?
"When mythic histories supplant the complexities of the past, the results can be lethal".
Today these mythic histories are called "narratives" and a professor's "mythic history" might be a rancher's legitimate narrative. Legitimate because it does not have to be correct or true but simply perceived as such.
It would seem then that the order of the day in general would be to find a way to get the rancher's to collaborate.
6
"find a way to get the ranchers to collaborate" That would be a bit difficult. The ranchers and occupiers of the refuge (especially the Bundys) feel that the ONLY relationship between them and government is "You leave me alone, I'll do what I want and we'll get along fine". They don't come prepared to negotiate, they only demand and they demand the same way my kids did when they were 3. They're deadbeats, criminals and thieves and need to be treated as such.
7
The situation in Oregon shows the hypocrisy from both sides of the political spectrum, more in the reaction to the situation than in what is actually going on. On the right, all of the sudden it is OK to stage a dynamic protest with violent undertones, as long as it is in support of the government using its vast resources to overstep its bounds and pick on helpless citizens. Funny how this was not the attitude when African-American citizens across the country were so frustrated with years of police abuse (a much greater injustice) that they started a dynamic movement with violent undertones. On the left, all of the sudden it is OK to suppress such a movement through lethal means (see: Montel Williams). One can only wonder what their reaction would have been were government agencies to open fire on rioters stemming from incidents of police injustice.
In both cases, the violent faction of the protest branched off a peaceful movement. Both these peaceful movements highlighted an injustice at the hands of the government. Neither the Hammonds nor the numerous grieving African-American families condone the violent acts. And neither the armed militia nor the looting in certain cities should take away from the fact that there was an injustice.
It would be great if people could just set aside their political beliefs for a minute and look at the situation through the eyes of the oppressed. In both situations, they would be hard pressed not to realize the injustice.
In both cases, the violent faction of the protest branched off a peaceful movement. Both these peaceful movements highlighted an injustice at the hands of the government. Neither the Hammonds nor the numerous grieving African-American families condone the violent acts. And neither the armed militia nor the looting in certain cities should take away from the fact that there was an injustice.
It would be great if people could just set aside their political beliefs for a minute and look at the situation through the eyes of the oppressed. In both situations, they would be hard pressed not to realize the injustice.
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Montel Williams does not represent "the left". He's one man on cable. More false equivalency from the right.
13
This is a great, great piece. Journalism seems so invested in conflict and personality--everything becomes polarized drama. It's odd that more often than not, the explanation comes on The Opinion Pages. Sure, there's some opinion here--people should come together and collaborate on a solution!--but the history lesson is invaluable. Now I understand. Thank you.
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In other words, without the actions of Teddy Roosevelt, FDR and agencies of the federal government, there would be no land in this part of Oregon fit for wildlife or cattle. How many of these ranchers from western Oregon do you think are Republicans? How many do you think support Donald Trump or Ted Cruz for president?
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Burns, Harney County, is Eastern Oregon. Reliably republican.
The population centers, Portland, Eugene, Salem are Western Oregon and reliably Democratic.
The population centers, Portland, Eugene, Salem are Western Oregon and reliably Democratic.
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probably all of them but facts don't matter to republicans any more just a scrape goat. How in the heck can we move forward with this mindset?
2
From Teddy Roosevelt to Donald Trump and Rafael Cruz --- no wonder the GOP doesn't believe in evolution!
4