There are good and bad managing agents. It is up to the coop board to hire and fire them. The coop board is in charge of negotiating the terms of the contract it has with the managing agent. The coop board supervises the managing agent.. It is up to the shareholders to elect good coop board members.
The kid is doing a double to put food on the families table.
At 16 he had to know somebody to get that job. You could be causing two people to lose their jobs.
He doesn't have the luxury of being addicted to video games.
He's doing what he has got to do.
He is more grown up at 16 than most of the readers of this column's kids will be at 26.
If you want to do something, tip him well.
At 16 he had to know somebody to get that job. You could be causing two people to lose their jobs.
He doesn't have the luxury of being addicted to video games.
He's doing what he has got to do.
He is more grown up at 16 than most of the readers of this column's kids will be at 26.
If you want to do something, tip him well.
11
A 16 year old should NOT be working "double shifts," nor should he be out of school.
There's more to this story, and anyone, including the parents, who are penalized for their malfeasance brought it on themselves for the violation of basic child labor laws.
There's more to this story, and anyone, including the parents, who are penalized for their malfeasance brought it on themselves for the violation of basic child labor laws.
3
A fair number of this week's comments are way over the top. Clearly, a lot of the commenters had nothing better to do over the holiday season except quetch. My favorite--the quetch about the illustration. Quite obviously, 'tis not the season for a sense of humor. Happy holidays to all, including Scrooge.
2
What is one to do when the management company is completely unresponsive?
Well the only thing you can do is get elected to the co-op board, only then will a management company treat you as a client. Because the board can fire the management co. Otherwise they will treat you like dirt and there's nothing you can do that will change it. And the co-op board doesn't care because they utilize them as a type of police for the building. Although this is a good thing, keeping residents in line as regards a range of policies, procedures and requirements, it does often leads to negative feelings of being parented and/or treated like an inmate rather than an owner.
Well the only thing you can do is get elected to the co-op board, only then will a management company treat you as a client. Because the board can fire the management co. Otherwise they will treat you like dirt and there's nothing you can do that will change it. And the co-op board doesn't care because they utilize them as a type of police for the building. Although this is a good thing, keeping residents in line as regards a range of policies, procedures and requirements, it does often leads to negative feelings of being parented and/or treated like an inmate rather than an owner.
3
When I read the first post, two things came to mind.
1) He is sixteen and it was a Sunday. Probably the teenager was happy to take the extra shift to make extra money. I don't know why everyone is assuming he is being underpaid. He is probably getting paid well, hence wanting to make even more money. Besides, isn't his pay in a public record, like the condominium financial records?
2) Doormen can never take a day off unless there is someone available to work their shift. Could it be that he wasn't asked by management to take the shift but by a fellow doorman? Could he have arranged the extra shift in anticipation of taking a day off later in the week?
If the writer cared so much about this worker, perhaps he should build a relationship with the doormen so he could have comfortable conversations where he could get the answers? Small talk when coming in and out of the building matters and goes a long way without compromising you.
1) He is sixteen and it was a Sunday. Probably the teenager was happy to take the extra shift to make extra money. I don't know why everyone is assuming he is being underpaid. He is probably getting paid well, hence wanting to make even more money. Besides, isn't his pay in a public record, like the condominium financial records?
2) Doormen can never take a day off unless there is someone available to work their shift. Could it be that he wasn't asked by management to take the shift but by a fellow doorman? Could he have arranged the extra shift in anticipation of taking a day off later in the week?
If the writer cared so much about this worker, perhaps he should build a relationship with the doormen so he could have comfortable conversations where he could get the answers? Small talk when coming in and out of the building matters and goes a long way without compromising you.
27
Sunday or not, he should not be working 2 shifts. The fines could be substantial and not to mention if he gets hurt on the job, the Workers' Compensation Board would likely throw the book at the condo association who would pass along the additional assessment to the unit-owners.
Seems to me as if you would have no problem to keep it as it is if you were in that situation until the bill arrives for the fines, etc.
Seems to me as if you would have no problem to keep it as it is if you were in that situation until the bill arrives for the fines, etc.
2
Your building is most probably covered by a Union Contract. The doorman would have a lower start up salary, but would stiil get overtime for the second shift. He would still be covered by the Collective bargaining agreement. As far as emergency there should be a procedure to follow and he is to call the building's Superintendent at once.
2
About the managing agent's lack of response to complaints and the coop board's inaction. I am a member of the condo board in our Queens building that "went condo" a decade ago under the terms of that unique NY institution called a non-eviction plan, excellent in theory. But because of the vagaries of governance that legal framework allows (omitting novel here) we did not have an increase in the maintenance, already on the low side, during the years that our costs of fuel oil and water about skyrocketed. The reserve fund was partly spent on a major capital project but was mostly depleted paying operating expenses. During this time it has been difficult to explain to unit owners and, especially, their rent stabilized tenants, that there is simply no money to do things like update the dust collecting and peeling hallway wallpaper.
Last spring we finally adopted a very large Special Assessment. By the coming spring we will have paid off our outstanding bills and virtually replaced the original issue elevator. Then I will try to convince my fellow board members that we need to again raise the ongoing maintenance fees so we can begin to rebuild the reserve fund.
My point? Maybe the problem is that the managing agent isn't being given the resources needed to properly manage the building. A look at the financial statements of the coop is called for to see where the fault lies; it may be the board's unwillingness to raise the maintenance fees.
Last spring we finally adopted a very large Special Assessment. By the coming spring we will have paid off our outstanding bills and virtually replaced the original issue elevator. Then I will try to convince my fellow board members that we need to again raise the ongoing maintenance fees so we can begin to rebuild the reserve fund.
My point? Maybe the problem is that the managing agent isn't being given the resources needed to properly manage the building. A look at the financial statements of the coop is called for to see where the fault lies; it may be the board's unwillingness to raise the maintenance fees.
14
The area in which I live was part of a mid 1950s co-op development consisting of fourteen six-story buildings divided into six corporations. The buildings have absolutely no architectural details or interest. On the original blueprints, I discovered various places around the buildings where vines where to be planted. The thought of living in a neighborhood of leafy buildings is certainly intriguing. However, all the vines were removed within the first decade or two because of complaints of birds and ants. The current facade inspection regulation (Local Law 11) would likely made compliance difficult with vines.
3
I just laughed when I saw the suggestion that a coop shareholder who is unhappy with a Managment agents service sue the coop! Not only is it expensive but it's almost impossible to win thanks to the way in which the courts apply the business judgement rule to isolate coops from any oversight by the courts and shareholders. It's appalling. Coop boards have become immune from challenge even when it comes to elections. Someone in the legislature needs to take this issue up but who cares the only people getting hurt are middle class owners and who cares about them!
6
'Someone' in the legislature...certainly not the actual legislators, for this is New York!
1
If you are wealthy enough to have a slave-wage human laboring as a door-person (I have never seen a lady as a doorman in nearly fifty years living in Manhatten) - you should feel more than very guilty!
6
My Manhattan building has a full-time female doorperson as does another building across the street. We also have a female relief doorperson.
These are not slave-wage jobs. They are unionized with full benefits and middle-class wages even for NYC. They also don't require a college education and have been a step up for many immigrants whose children do go to study jobs.
These are not slave-wage jobs. They are unionized with full benefits and middle-class wages even for NYC. They also don't require a college education and have been a step up for many immigrants whose children do go to study jobs.
18
Slave wage? Indoor (mostly) work. Not very physically demanding - try construction and other jobs. Not mentally demanding or exhausting.
Doormen typically make more than minimum wage.
Doormen typically make more than minimum wage.
14
NY doorman are mostly members of union and middle-class jobs with benefits (and often subtancial tips at holiday times). No need to feel guilty.
11
Perhaps the best advice provided concerning the youthful doorman was to speak with him directly. Who knows, you may have an eager-beaver teenager who likes the money that comes with working an extra shift. Many years ago that would have been me, a guy who felt lucky to have an after school/summer job who loved the experience plus the money the job provided: all sorts of teenage stuff, but also money that went into a college fund.
18
1) For the "baby" doorman, I say MYOB for the time being. You do not know what preceded. (ie Maybe scheduled doorman fallen ill. Maybe "baby" doorman was a one time thing.)
2) As to the vines, just cut them at the base. Don't touched vines on the wall until an inspection is made.
3) Sometimes managing agents feel the need to respond to board members only, this would depends on what's being asked/complained. If anything, you can gather majority shareholders to suggest change of managing agent. Hope there's no long term contract already in place.
2) As to the vines, just cut them at the base. Don't touched vines on the wall until an inspection is made.
3) Sometimes managing agents feel the need to respond to board members only, this would depends on what's being asked/complained. If anything, you can gather majority shareholders to suggest change of managing agent. Hope there's no long term contract already in place.
2
No, you're not in an ethical quandary, you simply can't mind your own business.
22
So the busybody causes the kid, who may be the sole support of his family, to lose his job. Way to go, New York Times.
Instead you should have said, tell the kid his rights, and leave it at that.
For all you know, the kid may have already finished high school. Many have by 16.
Instead you should have said, tell the kid his rights, and leave it at that.
For all you know, the kid may have already finished high school. Many have by 16.
14
Legally, a person is not an adult at that age.
4
Nonsensical answer, Trudy. Just Google New York State child labor laws and there's a nice chart showing what is legal and what is not.
14
If an underage doorman upsets you, I suggest keeping away from the boiler room.
2
When I read these occasional real estate co-op columns the message that comes across again and again is this -- you may have legal rights, but expect a long expensive struggle and perhaps even the opposite of the intended result if you try to enforce them.
29
Why do so many vendings of advice include phrases along the lines of "well, you are correct, but acting on it will allow petulant people to illegally retaliate or cost you significant money exercising your rights, so be careful if you even try"?
16
The underage doorman probably cost less than an adult. And the teenager probably is thrilled to get the extra hours.
An unfortunate result of Obamacare is fewer part time / entry level jobs. Demands to raise the minimal wage to $15 an hour will further reduce such jobs. The majority of minimum wage workers SUPPLEMENT a primary wage earner.
An unfortunate result of Obamacare is fewer part time / entry level jobs. Demands to raise the minimal wage to $15 an hour will further reduce such jobs. The majority of minimum wage workers SUPPLEMENT a primary wage earner.
1
There is zero evidence that "Obamacare" has, in any way, reduced the number of part time or entry level jobs. In fact, one of the actually potentially damaging effects of the law was to encourage employers to create more part time jobs rather than full time ones. Another effect is to potentially create many more entry level health care jobs as the 10million newly insured seek healthcare.
33
Dear Washington, D.C. reader: In New York City, doormen belong to a union. They get health benefits, a pension, a salary and - typically - holiday tips. In fancy buildings (and most buildings with doormen fall into that category), the tips are substantial. The topics of minimum wage and Obamacare - like the flowers in spring - have nothing to do with the case.
49
Also, Washington D.C. reader's off-topic argument that "The majority of minimum wage workers SUPPLEMENT a primary wage earner" is the same reactionary construct that was used - and whose residual effect is still felt - to pay women less than men. The assumption was that a man was the primary wage earner and his wife's earnings were supplementary. Each worker must be treated - and paid - as if he or she is a primary bread-winner.
22
I would imagine no one thinking clearly would want such a young doorman in a building in NYC. This is a job that actually requires someone who can be very responsible and know what to do in emergencies. What if someone falls at or near the doorway, or some other situation develops where mature judgement is called for? What if there is a building fire, a structural collapse, or any other type of thing that happens every day in the city? Such a young person is not likely (I can't say absolutely but..) to have the experience and the means and decision-making capacity of an adult in such a situation. Seems to me this is not just about child labor, but about general safety as well. Let him assist the adult doorman--certainly. But do a shift on his own? No way.
11
Most 16 year olds would have enough sense to call others (including 911) for help. I was baby sitting two younger kids when I was 12 or 13.
9
How very refreshing to read the first letter! I can imagine the quandary. Speaking out against a wrong puts at risk your anonymity and comfort, especially if you are part of a culture where exploitation seems commonplace. I always wonder if I would have been one of the silent, passive majority in Germany, in the South, etc., so I always feel as though it's important to speak out when needed so that my own small world doesn't slip side into something like that. Find a way to stick up for what's right! Good luck! I hope the solution isn't painful for you or the young fellow.
10
Many years ago, when I sat on a coop board in Great Neck, we became completely fed up with our managing agent. One day I walked into his office in the City and summarily fired him and his company on the spot, demanding he turn over any and all records to me immediately (which he did). Now I'm living in Palm Springs, and our property's current manager makes the one back in Great Neck look like a saint by comparison. She has so cowed the HOA Board they do nothing to stop her (eg, one homeowner's pit bull has attacked another homeowner twice, but our property manager refuses to do anything about it, and the police say it is up to management to handle the situation). Our plan is to slowly take over the board and make this property manager more responsible to our needs, otherwise, as a certain Mr. Gottesman could tell you, I'm not above losing a property manager.
11
"Upper East Side" tenant might also consider contacting SEIU local 32BJ, which represents doormen and other building service workers:
http://www.seiu32bj.org/
Maybe they can picket the building.
Maybe the Times can be tipped off when/if the union shows. Maybe the Paper of Record can actually cover this story, naming the names of the guilty. I suspect that the 16-year-old working double shifts is not the only kid being exploited on the Upper East Side.
This section of New York boasts some of the most extreme wealth inequality in the entire country The exploitation of a child who is probably getting paid, at most, minimum wage is shocking, but not too surprising.
And by the way, the illustration accompanying this article is pretty offensive too, reducing as it does the underage doorman into a cute cartoon character reminiscent of South Park. And why take it for granted that this child is even white? Does the pacifier in his mouth signify that the poor must be pacified?
For a true picture of the ugliness of child labor, see the bone-chilling "kids at work" pre-labor law Depression-era photography of sociologist Lewis Hine:
https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/hine-photos/
http://www.seiu32bj.org/
Maybe they can picket the building.
Maybe the Times can be tipped off when/if the union shows. Maybe the Paper of Record can actually cover this story, naming the names of the guilty. I suspect that the 16-year-old working double shifts is not the only kid being exploited on the Upper East Side.
This section of New York boasts some of the most extreme wealth inequality in the entire country The exploitation of a child who is probably getting paid, at most, minimum wage is shocking, but not too surprising.
And by the way, the illustration accompanying this article is pretty offensive too, reducing as it does the underage doorman into a cute cartoon character reminiscent of South Park. And why take it for granted that this child is even white? Does the pacifier in his mouth signify that the poor must be pacified?
For a true picture of the ugliness of child labor, see the bone-chilling "kids at work" pre-labor law Depression-era photography of sociologist Lewis Hine:
https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/hine-photos/
32
The child is 16, not 6. And we are no longer in the days of Lewis Hine. Your comment on the art accompanying this column was also offensive.
12
Who gets to be the most offended? The cartoon critic or the commentator?
2
If the illustration is in color, the skin has to be some color. Consider it as an illustration only. It is not an attempt to document the actual skin color of the young doorman.
3