Will someone please remind me, who shoots the majority of African-Americans, Caucasians or other African-Americans? While every Americans should be concerned about unjustified police shootings because the police are supposedly selected and trained to do their job without bias and the use of excessive force, once you get to the next step, non-police shootings - where most of the deaths and wounding occurs by far - African-Americans shoot most other African-Americans. Therefore, if black lives really matter, the activists should be working in their own communities more than anywhere else. Everyone knows that this is the case, but too many are afraid to say it.
15
Most white Americans are shot by other white Americans. Not by black people. Donald Trump lied to you. Anyways, your argument is silly. Your argument is, because criminals kill people why are we upset about cops killing people too? Because we hold cops to HIGHER STANDARDS than we hold criminals and became cops are paid by taxpayer dollars. Criminals aren't. Criminals go to jail when they murder people. Cops don't. HUGE DIFFERENCE. If black lives really mattered then killer cops would go to jail, just like black gang members do when they kill people.
13
To those person who claim BLM is responsible for a growing racial divide in our country, your charge reminds me of the famous exchange in the South African Parliament between Anti-apartheid campaigner Helen Suzman and her opponent who claimed her questions were embarrassing the Apartheid government. Ms Suzman replied, “It is the answers, not the questions, that are embarrassing sir.”
10
The main problem with the police shootings is that the victims of police bullets, tasers and manhandling are being executed on the street without the benefit of a trial, and in some cases the police shoot simply because they claim to have feared what the "perp" might do. But videos of police shootings are proving that police versions of events are untrustworthy and self-serving. In fact, the police are routinely administering street justice, with impunity, thereby depriving their victims of a fair trial.
15
really people! get a life,find a job,protesting for this thug is all you have?
7
report, linked from NPR:
The #BLM are claiming the shooting was an unprovoked attack by white supremacists. However, a video taken moments after the shooting indicates otherwise.
Two witnesses, with their faces covered, relate how the #BLM mob attacked three whites who were doing nothing but recording the protest. According to these two witnesses, the whites were attacked ("punched") three times as protesters tried to herd them to a secluded area.
After each of the first two attacks, the whites retreated, but the third time they responded in apparent self-defense, according to the witness statement.
The media, of course, is ignoring the witnesses and is, instead, reporting the #BLM version that the shooting was unprovoked.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
The #BLM are claiming the shooting was an unprovoked attack by white supremacists. However, a video taken moments after the shooting indicates otherwise.
Two witnesses, with their faces covered, relate how the #BLM mob attacked three whites who were doing nothing but recording the protest. According to these two witnesses, the whites were attacked ("punched") three times as protesters tried to herd them to a secluded area.
After each of the first two attacks, the whites retreated, but the third time they responded in apparent self-defense, according to the witness statement.
The media, of course, is ignoring the witnesses and is, instead, reporting the #BLM version that the shooting was unprovoked.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
10
The irony is that the media is probably justifying their utter distortion of the facts of this case (and others) by imagining that they are fighting the forces represented by Trump.
But it is precisely the transparent dissembling of the media that propels a candidate like Trump. You see, the public isn't as stupid as the media wants to believe it is. The public can see through the distortions and is disgusted with it -- and that is what makes a candidate like Trump, who calls out the media for its dishonesty, so popular.
But it is precisely the transparent dissembling of the media that propels a candidate like Trump. You see, the public isn't as stupid as the media wants to believe it is. The public can see through the distortions and is disgusted with it -- and that is what makes a candidate like Trump, who calls out the media for its dishonesty, so popular.
6
By what authority do demonstrators demand the others remove face masks and by what authority do they "escort" them away? The latter action could certainly amount to battery or assault and even kidnapping.
As the police spokesman said, we should wait for facts before making judgments, but it is troubling that the NYT uses language that seems designed to blame one side and exonerate the other, before the facts are known.
The men were "asked" to remove their face masks? And when they refused they were "escorted" away? Asked? Escorted? What would the Times have written if the counter demonstrators had "asked" the demonstrators to uncover their faces and had "escorted" them away if they had refused?
As the police spokesman said, we should wait for facts before making judgments, but it is troubling that the NYT uses language that seems designed to blame one side and exonerate the other, before the facts are known.
The men were "asked" to remove their face masks? And when they refused they were "escorted" away? Asked? Escorted? What would the Times have written if the counter demonstrators had "asked" the demonstrators to uncover their faces and had "escorted" them away if they had refused?
8
You have to give it to BLM.
They manage to incorporate everything into their agenda - from Cecil the lion to ISIS.
They manage to incorporate everything into their agenda - from Cecil the lion to ISIS.
7
"The police said that Mr. Clark was a suspect in an assault and that he had interfered with paramedics trying to treat "his" victim." The pattern I've noticed when police shootings of unarmed minorities are reported in articles such as these, is that the 'shooting victim' is not accorded the assumption of innocence and is reported as the perpetrator. While the above sentence states that Mr. Clark was a suspect in an assault, his "interference" with paramedics is not reported as alleged interference and the assault victim who was receiving treatment is reported as "his" victim, not 'the assault victim." Typically, news reporters are careful to use terms as alleged and make other statements that neutralize the assumption of guilt. I've noticed a pronounced pattern of, let us call it, a lack of care around 'the presumption of innocence" and more, the presence of a presumption of guilt attached to the targets of police violence. It's disturbing.
12
Actually what happened last night was not an act of terrorism. What happened last night was a shooting provoked by BLM thugs who began to chase people several blocks down the road and threaten them. As is with 90% of these cases, they brought the violence upon themselves through there criminal behavior. LETS BE 100% CLEAR: Jamal Clark was a thug, who beat and injured his girlfriend, threatened paramedics, and brought his death upon himself. Let us also be 100% clear, there is NOT a cop on black crime problem, Their is a militarization of the police problem, which views American citizens as enemy combatants, and effects all races, period. We need to wake up from this delusional cult of victimhood in America that seems to be the religion of the day. Being a victim is not an identity, being a victim is not an achievement, being a victim does not excuse your lack of action. There is not systematic racism in Minneapolis, black people are coddled at every level. Welfare benefits, free housing, public transportation, employers literally throwing good jobs at any unqualified minority who will show up so they can comply with Minnesotas liberal equal opportunity employment mandates, but its not enough, because rather then use that welfare as a base in which to step up and move on, WHICH ANY BLACK PERSON IN MINNEAPOLIS HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO, its so much easier just to be a victim.
16
Your liberal use of "thug," which you know to be the modern equivalent of that word starting with N, and your assertion that black people are "coddled" tell the rest of us all we need to know about you.
9
Terrorism - pure and simple. It's time to close our border to all white men seeking to immigrate to our country.
9
Were already here,so lets button up the the flood gates,NO MORE,its bad enough we tax payers carry the burdon of folks sucking off our welfare system and keep popping out kids they can't take care of.
5
Real "terrorists" would have planted a bomb or sniped the crowd from a distance. Something tells me the real story is not what the BLM propaganda chiefs would have the public believe.
16
Ok, I am from MPLS and the BLM group has done more to alienate people in Minnesota to their cause than any good that they may have tried to accomplish. They have tried to close the Mall Of America, they taunted runners in the TC marathon, they taunted people at the State fair, they have shut a the main freeway down twice. The Mpls mayor and the chief of police are viewed as leaderless lackeys that are pandering to a group that seems more intent on advancing the careers of a few leaders of BLM than addressing any real issues.<br/><br/>Any loss of a young life is unfortunate but the young man had a lengthy, violent rap sheet that included several violent crimes. Of course BLM is portraying him as a victim who was turning his life around. He had 14 siblings from different parents. This is what the issue is. A culture that does not place emphasis on hard work and a committed home life with parents that stay involved. Until the real issues are addressed BLM will keep spouting the "we are victims" spiel that does little to really help.
25
Do you even recognize your own ad hominen attack on this man who was shot to death. What is the relevancy of the number of children born to his mother and father. In your mind, does that justify the shooting? Having a rap sheet or history of prior violent crimes might justify a harsher sentencing by a judge, but it does not justify his execution. Do you suppose that the police officer was reading the dead man's rap sheet on his way to the scene and decide, "oh he's a bad one, I can easily justify shooting him."
6
(1) All lives matter. (2) Black lives matter whether police are involved in the taking of them or not. Activism focusing only on police vis-a-vis black lives itself calls into question the motivation of those purporting to represent those who have black lives. (2) The narratives of the violent police- or vigilante-related events reaching the national consciousness -- and only a few are, not necessarily on the basis of merit but often on the basis of political maneuvering -- are propagandistic. The facts surrounding these narratives vary tremendously from incident to incident, and do not necessarily correspond closely at all to the narratives. (3) Terrorism is the use of violence against civilians or threat thereof so as to effect public fear in the service of the terrorist's agenda, be it economic, political, religious, whatever. Yes, this shooting probably qualifies as terrorism, but so do some actions and tactics of Black Lives Matter affiliated activists, albeit to a lesser extent. (4) The narrative being pushed in this case by the BLM activists and the NY Times in this reportage -- that the shooting violence followed only peaceful protest and not violent altercation, and that the police countenanced the violence against protesters -- is presented without adequate corroboration from unbiased sources. Much more digging should be done before such a narrative should be rendered. That narrative may be true, but it smacks of having been developed by the protesters.
8
Remember that "Hands up, don't shoot" was proven to be a lie by Eric Holder. But you'd never know that if you listened to BLM protesters.
15
I didn't disagree that black lives matter. No one should be looked down upon because of the color of their skin. Then a crime happens that is so depraved. I don't see any mention of it in this paper. I see that this paper covers other crimes but no mention of this one. No mention by the black lives matter group either. A pregnant woman with a sleeping child upstairs. Three blacks invade her home brutality raping and shooting her in the head. Amanda Blackburn was a completely innocent victim. I wonder how these black men, one of them only 18, grew up to think this was acceptable behavior. Why hasn't anyone in the black community come out and say that this is not something we want our black brothers to do. Why doesn't the black lives matter group denounce these men. Why don't the black leaders denounce these despicable black men and their depraved act against this innocent white women. If black lives matter then prove to me that I should believe that black lives matter by showing me that you have the same feelings of horror regarding this crime. Prove to me that you have the same morals that I do and that this violence is abhorrent to you. When something like this happens and I don't hear you denounce it then what you say means less to me. If black lives matter then you need to show me that they deserve to matter, that blacks believe that all lives matter.
8
How is this incident not 'terrorism'? The headline should be 'Black lives matter activists vow not to cower after terrorist attack'.
The press HAS to stop tiptoeing around the tulips after egregious incidents of violence perpetrated by white non-Muslims upon other communities. This is clearly a double standard and reflects poorly upon them.
The press HAS to stop tiptoeing around the tulips after egregious incidents of violence perpetrated by white non-Muslims upon other communities. This is clearly a double standard and reflects poorly upon them.
Group of well-known racists attacking someone because of their skin color. Absolutely have the right to defend.
4
It was the other way around. Regardless, shooting guns at people is despicable racist and everything else you may believe about them, but given the circumstances a claim of self defense could well hold up in court. Especially given the account as described by the protesters themselves in two videos.
1
ALL LIVES MATTER!!!!
I in no way condone murder by anyone, black or white, police officer or not. If there is a racial divide in this country, it's due to those individuals who form groups such as Black Lives Matter, which sends the message that other lives don't.
I would like to hear thoughts from the Black Lives Count movement on the brutal murder and rape of the pastor's wife in Indiana by two "black men," during a home invasion, while her young child was in the home? Maybe they would like to discuss these two black men? No? Didn't think so....
I in no way condone murder by anyone, black or white, police officer or not. If there is a racial divide in this country, it's due to those individuals who form groups such as Black Lives Matter, which sends the message that other lives don't.
I would like to hear thoughts from the Black Lives Count movement on the brutal murder and rape of the pastor's wife in Indiana by two "black men," during a home invasion, while her young child was in the home? Maybe they would like to discuss these two black men? No? Didn't think so....
8
"... it's due to those individuals who form groups such as Black Lives Matter, which sends the message that other lives don't."
Nonsense.
Nonsense.
3
I'm sure you're referring to this tragic incident:
http://abc7chicago.com/news/second-man-charged-in-murder-of-pregnant-pas...
I'll discuss it. First it is strange that you put quotes around "black men." Are they or are they not black? Why the quotes? Are you unsure? Secondly no one in BLM is defending persons like these who are arrested following an investigation and who are appropriate subject to due process. Had they been shot down by officers from the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department when being taken into custody, that would have been a different matter. Certainly happy that the U.S. Marshals assisted in the arrest but I don't understand why that was necessary. Now let's all watch for a fair trial and appropriate sentencing based on the evidence presented, the defense of the accused, and the verdict of the judge or jury.
http://abc7chicago.com/news/second-man-charged-in-murder-of-pregnant-pas...
I'll discuss it. First it is strange that you put quotes around "black men." Are they or are they not black? Why the quotes? Are you unsure? Secondly no one in BLM is defending persons like these who are arrested following an investigation and who are appropriate subject to due process. Had they been shot down by officers from the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department when being taken into custody, that would have been a different matter. Certainly happy that the U.S. Marshals assisted in the arrest but I don't understand why that was necessary. Now let's all watch for a fair trial and appropriate sentencing based on the evidence presented, the defense of the accused, and the verdict of the judge or jury.
2
I'll take my chances getting shot by a terrorist here in France before I would return to America and take my chances getting pulled over by a murderous police officer.
5
Well the literal odds of either happening to you are nearly zero, so not to worry. Crossing the street though, that's putting your life on the line.
6
The Minneapolis Star-Tribune is reporting this morning that Wesley Martin—one of the wounded demonstrators—said “he was shot after he and a group of others chased the suspected gunmen toward an alley off Morgan Avenue.” A You-Tube video shows two BLM protestors telling a reporter that BLM demonstrators assaulted and punched the white suspects when they started taking videos of the demonstrators. According to the two BLM protestors, who are black, some of the demonstrators pursued the suspects as they fled. According to the two BLM demonstrators, at least one of the men fired shots at the people chasing him. So far, the FBI has decline to say if Minneapolis shooting is being investigated as a hate crime. There is probably abundant video evidence, some of which may have been shot by the suspects. People should wait for the evidence to emerge before making up their minds.
http://www.startribune.com/police-searching-for-suspects-who-fired-into-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
http://www.startribune.com/police-searching-for-suspects-who-fired-into-...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
12
Thank you. Obviously the media has chosen this false account and ignored the description of the event by the protesters themselves which has been public for days. In a previous addition, the Strib provided a link to the first known video but did not comment on it. Thanks for posting it and the other one. Yesterday, the police led the marchers downtown to ensure their safety and most streets around City Hall and the Federal Courthouse were closed to protect the protesters from interference. I completely agree with the protesters cause and call to action. The State of Minnesota has a conceal and carry law. Anyone with a gun can walk into a crowd, including the Mall of America and the line at the cash register in Super America. I am very disturbed that the MPD did not respond to concerns about these men prior to the shooting. Inexcusable. On the other hand I am proud of those police officers who are skilled and empathetic to the members of this community. There are many officers on the force who are decent people, including the Chief. Systemic unequal treatment of African Americans exists and though I deeply love my city, a lot of changes have to happen to correct the deep disparity in outcomes between whites and blacks and others.
5
If you really believe that "black lives matter," than you need to begin in your own backyard. More black men are killed by other black men than by police officers. And while you're at it, compare the number of blacks who take the lives of whites. Where are the videos on those murders? Maybe we need a "white lives matter" activist group?
12
Cyndi, the whole history of the United States has been "white lives matter." Pick up a history book.
12
Cyndi, the heart of the campaign is "black lives matter too," meaning that heretofore black Americans have been treated by our governmental institutions-- in this case our police and criminal justice system as if they mattered less. This is evident in the massive discrepancies seen in everything from traffic violations on through judges & juries handing down the death sentence. Further discrepancies can be found in public school funding and new laws or programs intended to making voting more difficult-- to name just two others. Do you really believe that the lives we lead in our white society face the same difficulties? It is time that our society stopped considering black lives cheap and instead held each life as equally precious
3
I think you'll agree that black citizens have a right to expect better treatment from the police than they do a criminal living in their community.
1
"Mr. Clark said he was alarmed by the heavy bulletproof vest that one of the agitators was wearing and by the precision with which he believed they operated."
Obviously, the shooters and agitators were working with the police and the ruling elite as agents provocateur. Since the police are the ones who do the investigating, they will find no connection with their own forces.
Obviously, the shooters and agitators were working with the police and the ruling elite as agents provocateur. Since the police are the ones who do the investigating, they will find no connection with their own forces.
7
a) your first statement is ridiculous
b) the police aren't investigating, the Department of Justice and the FBI
b) the police aren't investigating, the Department of Justice and the FBI
2
New York Times, call it what it is: terrorism and a hate crime. You don't have to quote an activist calling it that. When masked white gunmen direct threats at people protesting for Black civil rights, intimidate them, and then shoot them, it's because they hate them and want to terrorize them into submission to white power. That's what they're trying to communicate with those actions. It's not controversial or a question of "balance" to simply describe it as it is.
23
The FBI has decline to say whether the shooting is being investigated as a hate crime. Some of the BLM demonstrators say demonstrators attacked and punched the white suspects as they being taking videos and photos and chased them as they fled, and that the men fired shots as they were being chased. Wesley Martin—one of the wounded demonstrators—told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune that “he was shot after he and a group of others chased the suspected gunmen toward an alley off Morgan Avenue.”
6
If the shooters were black this would not even have been more than a footnote in local papers, much less four days of national coverage.
10
What's your point?
1
All lives matter.Ironic how much racial tensions have increased during Obama's time in the WHouse.Blacks shot at police in Ferguson and stoned cops in Baltimore.Now whites shoot at blacks in Minneapolis.BLM members march down a freeway shouting pigs in a blanket,fry them like bacon.Blacks in Chicago murder hundreds of other blacks and no politician cares.Welcome to third nation status for our country.22 trillion spent on the LBJ initiated war on poverty since 1964 and these are the results.What a waste of taxpayer dollars!Arm yourselves whether you are white or black because no one else including the police will be there to save you from these delusional racial lunatics of all skin colors.
4
Here we have a clear example of domestic terrorism and it's hardly causing a ripple. The assailants were dressed suspiciously in bulletproof vests and were wearing masks. Why didn't the police take action to apprehend them and remove them from the scene before the violence occurred? It seems the police were deliberately ignoring an obvious threat. Why?
9
Didn't protesters want cops to leave them alone...? They don't want the police there, then they do want the police there. Seems cops are damned if they do, damned if they don't...
Protesters need to really think about how to really solve the problem and not just scream about it and vilify. As anyone who has managed people (or has been an effective parent) before knows...if you truly want to affect change you point out the problem, formulate a solution with the person(s), and then finish off slathering them with heepss of praise. No one wants change for or work with someone that only notices and points out their screw ups and the bad things they do. Protesters would get MUCH more bang for their buck if they came at the problem like that. And they'd feel better to. Because the reality is cops aren't all bad and they do LOTS of good in communities. Vilifying ALL cops only serves to throw a deeper wedge between police and the people. And then crap like this is the result. You've got thousands of people out their shouting "pigs in a blanket,fry them like bacon"...so basically saying lets kill cops... and then you wonder why cops aren't eager to protect them...?
Protesters need to really think about how to really solve the problem and not just scream about it and vilify. As anyone who has managed people (or has been an effective parent) before knows...if you truly want to affect change you point out the problem, formulate a solution with the person(s), and then finish off slathering them with heepss of praise. No one wants change for or work with someone that only notices and points out their screw ups and the bad things they do. Protesters would get MUCH more bang for their buck if they came at the problem like that. And they'd feel better to. Because the reality is cops aren't all bad and they do LOTS of good in communities. Vilifying ALL cops only serves to throw a deeper wedge between police and the people. And then crap like this is the result. You've got thousands of people out their shouting "pigs in a blanket,fry them like bacon"...so basically saying lets kill cops... and then you wonder why cops aren't eager to protect them...?
4
Black Lives Matter Activists Vow Not to Cower After 5 Are Shot BY TERRORISTS Fixed that for you.
8
Unfortunately you haven't heard the other side of the argument. The FBI has declined to say whether the shooting is being investigated as a hate crime. Some of the BLM demonstrators themselves say that DEMONSTRATORS ATTACKED and punched the white suspects as they began taking photos and then chased them as they fled. And that the men fired shots as they were being chased. Wesley Martin—one of the wounded demonstrators—told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune that “he was shot after he and a group of others chased the suspected gunmen toward an alley off Morgan Avenue.”
2
The racial divisiveness that has been increasing dramatically over the past years is directly a result of this administration stoking the fires of racial divide and doing nothing about it. The false racial narratives surrounding Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown fed into the creation of Black Lives Matter. They, themselves have promoted violence, with some of their members carrying rifles at protests, such as the guy who was evicted from some Trump event being seen at a protest carrying a rifle. They have chanted death to cops and pigs in a blanket and that was all fine. Now, we have them being shot by white supremacists, apparently. Had to happen.
7
Get real. The people who have not support the president based on skin color have been at it since Day One of this administration. They feel entitled to be publicly ugly.
Americans are always going to confront this stuff, especially the young. If you want peace, treat all people with respect and you will get it.
Americans are always going to confront this stuff, especially the young. If you want peace, treat all people with respect and you will get it.
4
I keep reading that increasing racial divisiveness over the past years is a "direct" result of stoking by the Obama administration. What I have yet to read from these commenters is the "direct" proof of that stoking.
@The Ancient, you seem to be implying that demonstrators have promoted violence simply by demonstrating and that the natural consequence of those demonstrations is white violence - "Had to happen." Right. Clearly, those blacks have grown too big for their breeches. How dare they behave like American citizens? How dare they even entertain dreams of being like Clive Bundy? Obviously, whites need to reassert their god-given authority.
@The Ancient, you seem to be implying that demonstrators have promoted violence simply by demonstrating and that the natural consequence of those demonstrations is white violence - "Had to happen." Right. Clearly, those blacks have grown too big for their breeches. How dare they behave like American citizens? How dare they even entertain dreams of being like Clive Bundy? Obviously, whites need to reassert their god-given authority.
2
Theorizing in advance of the facts seems to be the favorite sport in these comments. Let's wait until we see some unedited footage of what happened before casting metaphorical stones at anyone.
4
Exactly! Supposedly demonstrators attacked and punched the white suspects as they began taking video and then chased them as they fled, and that the men fired shots as they were being chased. One of the wounded demonstrators, Wesley Martin, told the Minneapolis Star-Tribune that “he was shot after he and a group of others chased the suspected gunmen toward an alley off Morgan Avenue.”
3
Showing up wearing masks in public venues in groups while bearing loaded weapons is a right protected under free speech not to be breached? Really? Please, come try it in Times Square all you 'free speaking' ethnic cleansers, and find out how well that will play out with NY's Finest. Just let the rest of us know when you plan on showing up so we can make plans to be elsewhere.
15
The protesters were wearing masks as well to help keep them warm. And there is a conceal and carry law in Minnesota.
4
Second submission. The New York Times comment sections are becoming an invaluable record of the extraordinary state of affairs in my country of birth. Each such section is guaranteed to contain many comments presenting any one of the following: Apparent support for whites who are armed, masked, and even (at least one) with bulletproof vest, apparent belief that even when a single person carrying a small knife is surrounded by police, it is acceptable for the police to shoot to kill, deathly fear of refugees while showing not the least fear of our home-grown white terrorists, hate of muslims, Syrians, and all refugees.
This is 21st century America?
Dual citizen-USA-SE
This is 21st century America?
Dual citizen-USA-SE
20
Hard to tell if the shootings were justified -- probably they would be if Minnesota had a "stand your ground" law, but, being a liberal state, it probably does not grant its citizens the right to defend themselves when pushed around by people who don't like them.
Jamar Clark sounds a lot like Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin, both of whose shootings were justified. While there are police shootings of people, including Black people that appear to be unjustified (and which are the subject of criminal investigations), it continually escapes me why protesters pick people like Brown, Martin and now Clark to support their cause. Such cases make it appear that what BLM wants is freedom for Blacks to attack white people without any consequences.
Jamar Clark sounds a lot like Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin, both of whose shootings were justified. While there are police shootings of people, including Black people that appear to be unjustified (and which are the subject of criminal investigations), it continually escapes me why protesters pick people like Brown, Martin and now Clark to support their cause. Such cases make it appear that what BLM wants is freedom for Blacks to attack white people without any consequences.
11
No one in BLM is saying that negative or positive actions do not carry appropriate consequences. The outcome of assault and battery, or drug possession, or a traffic violation, or jaywalking, or vending cigarettes without a license is expected by everyone to appropriately be arrest followed by charges and adjudication in an open court. Not extrajudicial execution at the scene of the incident.
3
And why do the "protesters" have the right to assemble and not the film makers, whoever they are. We will surely find out as they are in custody.
In any case, the idea of a "safety committee", "escorting" other citizens away is chilling.
Let's suspend the rhetoric and seek out the truth.
In any case, the idea of a "safety committee", "escorting" other citizens away is chilling.
Let's suspend the rhetoric and seek out the truth.
13
Documentary film makers and journalists do not carry guns. These "film makers" as you call them were armed. They were being provocative and it's possible they might have started shooting whether they were recognized or not, something that happens in the United States every other week, it seems. Foreign terrorists need not trouble themselves to create havoc here. We do the job very well on our own.
1
These terrorist strike with such easy stealth because we refuse to define them as terrorist. What a big advantage to a group of terrorists that is!
Think of all the resources we gladly commit to fight ISIS. Is it proportional to the resources spent on protecting citizens from this kind of domestic terrorism? In any case, it is clearly ineffective. Just a few months ago we had the Church shooting, now this. And let's face it, this one should have been so easy to see coming, and yet they were successful.
I'm sure there are other racist terrorists out there planning their next strike. What I am not sure at all about is whether DHS is doing anything. After all, DHS is supposed to deal with terrorism and we have decided that these acts are not terrorism.
Think of all the resources we gladly commit to fight ISIS. Is it proportional to the resources spent on protecting citizens from this kind of domestic terrorism? In any case, it is clearly ineffective. Just a few months ago we had the Church shooting, now this. And let's face it, this one should have been so easy to see coming, and yet they were successful.
I'm sure there are other racist terrorists out there planning their next strike. What I am not sure at all about is whether DHS is doing anything. After all, DHS is supposed to deal with terrorism and we have decided that these acts are not terrorism.
3
Its funny you almost sound like a right winger upset that liberals won't call 'radical islam' radical islam.
Also the US military is hardly trying to fight ISIS. You may have seen in the news recently documents released that suggest US military agencies knew that there was a high likelihood of a radical 'salafi' state being created in the vacuum of Iraq/Syria. They realized this could work in their favor in their fight against Assad and so they even facilitated it by 'allying' with Al Queda to fight Assad. ISIS for the US military is a useful problem. Supposedly they want to isolate Assad. And destroying them apparently isn't really what they're wanting to do. So they bomb a tanker here or there and give a show of 'trying' but the truth is they are not. Its even been shown that the US is dropping arms, food and supplies in ISIS controlled areas...meaning ISIS ends up with these guns and supplies. Supposedly these are 'accidents' but Iraqi military has been showing recently lots of videos that really make it look like its no accident. Its really disheartening to think that our own US government and military are allowing even fostering the atrocities of ISIS. The blood of their victims is largely on this administration and our military.
Also the US military is hardly trying to fight ISIS. You may have seen in the news recently documents released that suggest US military agencies knew that there was a high likelihood of a radical 'salafi' state being created in the vacuum of Iraq/Syria. They realized this could work in their favor in their fight against Assad and so they even facilitated it by 'allying' with Al Queda to fight Assad. ISIS for the US military is a useful problem. Supposedly they want to isolate Assad. And destroying them apparently isn't really what they're wanting to do. So they bomb a tanker here or there and give a show of 'trying' but the truth is they are not. Its even been shown that the US is dropping arms, food and supplies in ISIS controlled areas...meaning ISIS ends up with these guns and supplies. Supposedly these are 'accidents' but Iraqi military has been showing recently lots of videos that really make it look like its no accident. Its really disheartening to think that our own US government and military are allowing even fostering the atrocities of ISIS. The blood of their victims is largely on this administration and our military.
1
Assault with a deadly weapon, attempted murder, hate crime, and incitement to riot (i.e., the shooters incited each other). Oh, and since their crime is intended to alter political opinion, it's terrorism.
4
As in many of these situations the facts here are gray, not black and white. There is evidence (see video interview with two BLM members) that the counterprostors did not simply pull out their guns and shoot at the protestors in cold blood; rather, they were attacked by a mob that was trying to push them out of the area, and the counterprotestors only fired after the members of the mob started punching and hitting them. There is also evidence that the counterprotestors were hoping to trigger an incident that would give them license to use their guns. I suggest we wait and see what the facts are. In this case, as in every case, what matters are the facts and the law, not not the narrative.
10
Those poor guys just wanted to document the protests, right? I mean, wearing masks and bulletproof vests, and bringing your weapons along to "document" a group of unarmed protesters exercising their constitutional right to assembly is standard operating procedure, am I right? And despite the fact that they're standing in front of a police station, what choice did they have but to shoot them and run away?
1
It sounds like the "safety committee" of BLM started this unfortunate violence. (Thank God nobody was killed.) If that turns out to be true, then will the police arrest the BLM member perpetrators as well? Or is justice in 2015 defined by race?
9
It is pretty clear that the Minneapolis Police Department officers at the protest failed to carry out their duties.
One has to wonder why armed and masked white men wearing bulletproof vests were not seen as a threat to public safety by the police at the seen?
One also should wonder what would be the reaction if similarly attired and equipped men of color appeared at the scene of the protest if the police reaction would have been the same?
It is unacceptable that Minneapolis Police resort to gratuitous violence when dealing with black people and looks the other way when white thugs disrupt a peaceful demonstration. This is a clear case where Federal Law Enforcement must intervene.
One has to wonder why armed and masked white men wearing bulletproof vests were not seen as a threat to public safety by the police at the seen?
One also should wonder what would be the reaction if similarly attired and equipped men of color appeared at the scene of the protest if the police reaction would have been the same?
It is unacceptable that Minneapolis Police resort to gratuitous violence when dealing with black people and looks the other way when white thugs disrupt a peaceful demonstration. This is a clear case where Federal Law Enforcement must intervene.
3
Why would cops want to help people shouting "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon"? Cops are people to. If someone is calling for your death how eager are you going to be to protect them?
And your if "a man of color were masked" comment is nonsense. In all of these protests...Ferguson, Baltimore, etc etc lots of protesters have been covering their faces.
Seems you cherry pick only incidents that support your narrative. As the saying goes, "you get what you look for."
And your if "a man of color were masked" comment is nonsense. In all of these protests...Ferguson, Baltimore, etc etc lots of protesters have been covering their faces.
Seems you cherry pick only incidents that support your narrative. As the saying goes, "you get what you look for."
3
In response to your 2nd paragraph many protesters were wearing masks (it's cold out, it's November and it's Minnesota).
3
Back to calling the cops pigs again for this old white lady. Just horrified and disgusted by the blatant and unrelenting racism in our "police" forces, as prevalent in the North as the South. The pigs now are mostly just bigots and white male supremacists on the public dole.
3
This along with the report of the killing of Laquan McDonald makes it difficult for me to even think that patriotic phrase "I am proud to be an American."
How can one be proud to be a citizen of a land where as long as you are white you are free to roam the streets masked, bearing weapons, and even bulletproof vests, a land whose governors want to shut the door on Syrian refugees because one of them might do as these American "role models" do, take to the streets armed to kill?
Answer: One cannot.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
How can one be proud to be a citizen of a land where as long as you are white you are free to roam the streets masked, bearing weapons, and even bulletproof vests, a land whose governors want to shut the door on Syrian refugees because one of them might do as these American "role models" do, take to the streets armed to kill?
Answer: One cannot.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Dual citizen-USA-SE
5
Many Protesters from day one have been wearing masks.
1
If you allow yourself to be defined by the worst elements of any society, you'll be unable to find any country you can be proud of.
The perpetrators are being prosecuted. If found guilty I would hope they receive the maximum penalty allowed by law. I'm pretty sure most Americans would agree.
The perpetrators are being prosecuted. If found guilty I would hope they receive the maximum penalty allowed by law. I'm pretty sure most Americans would agree.
1
Let's not act as if we know everything about this situation. There was a large crowd of people in front of the police station. This crowd is angry with the police, and the police are tasked with monitoring the situation and preventing escalation. If someone in the crowd comes up to me and warns me that there are people who aren't supposed to be there, how the hell am I supposed to respond? I can't arrest someone for wearing a bulletproof vest(if I can indeed ascertain that there is someone wearing such attire, it was dark after all), and in the Minnesota winter the face masks don't seem that suspicious. No doubt that the cops were ordered to leave the crowd alone unless there was violence or some sort of illegal behavior. I have no idea what the cops did or did not know. I have empathy for the BLM folks, but this was a difficult policing situation. Lets reserve judgement until the facts surface. The BLM folks should reevaluate their tactics. Isn't this a bit like the U of Mizz situation in which a group holds a supposedly peaceful demonstration in a PUBLIC place, and then attempts to forcibly remove private citizens from said PUBLIC space? If BLM can't figure out how to be peaceful, then they are going to have a hard time swaying public opinion in their favor. They need to formalize protests, and stop trying to regulate who can or can't be in the PUBLIC places they choose to operate in.
5
Meanwhile authorities in Indianapolis charged two young black men with murder on Monday in the fatal shooting of a pregnant white woman during a home invasion robbery. Also on Monday, police in New Orleans arrested a black man seen on security camera who first dragged a woman down a New Orleans street and then shot a white medical student who tried to intervene in the stomach. Had the black man's weapon not jammed he would have shot the medical student in the head as he lay wounded on the sidewalk.
Also in New Orleans a shoot out Sunday night in a park during the filming of a music video left 17 people injured, mostly black. Not one of the hundreds of mostly black witnesses have yet come forward to provide police with information.
Where is Black Lives Matter in all of this? Hypocrisy is hypocritical. Who can blame white people and the police for fearing young black men? If the truth were told black people would admit fearing them too.
Also in New Orleans a shoot out Sunday night in a park during the filming of a music video left 17 people injured, mostly black. Not one of the hundreds of mostly black witnesses have yet come forward to provide police with information.
Where is Black Lives Matter in all of this? Hypocrisy is hypocritical. Who can blame white people and the police for fearing young black men? If the truth were told black people would admit fearing them too.
10
Why not try to walk and chew gum at the same time?
Citizens addressing problems in law enforcement in one community does not equal free passes for all crime everywhere else in the world. Know that this kind of deflection also does not equal "Thinking".
Address the crime in your own community instead of griping when young folks decide to do something about a problem. "Hypocrisy is hypocritical" as you say.
Citizens addressing problems in law enforcement in one community does not equal free passes for all crime everywhere else in the world. Know that this kind of deflection also does not equal "Thinking".
Address the crime in your own community instead of griping when young folks decide to do something about a problem. "Hypocrisy is hypocritical" as you say.
I'm not sure what's more distressing: the rampant intolerance in our country (on ALL sides of the political spectrum, might I add), or the fact that so many people are not only unfazed by, but fail to see the issue with, a group of people SHOOTING AT another group of people. Can you look past which group belonged to what race or adhered to whatever ideology and just acknowledge that this act was not only unlawful but unconscionable? What about the sanctity of human life? What about the right to assembly, to protest, to practice civil disobedience? And to do so without the fear of being literally silenced with gunshots. If that doesn't define living in a democracy, what does? And if understanding the value of a human life doesn't define the human experience, I sure don't know what does. I don't agree with every stance and every tactic of the Black Lives Matter movement, but that's entirely beside the point here. I don't know if the world's becoming increasingly more Orwellian or pre-WWII, but something's in the pipeline. The level of hatred and intolerance is really disgusting.
17
It is scary how very many shootings are coming to light. While some may be questionable and the details debatable, others seem very clear indeed. Watching the video just released by the Chicago police, it is plain that this was unwarranted shooting. Was it racism? Who knows! What it was certainly was a white policeman shooting a young black man for NO reason. To say that that officer felt "threatened" is plainly nonsense. The young man had only a knife; there were half dozen cops on the scene; the young man was staggering a bit but clearly never even moved purposefully toward any of them. Yes, murder.
Anyone who cannot get behind "Black Lives Matter" lacks courage and honesty. Anyone who objects that doing so is against cops or hates cops or any other nonsense, is not living in the real world. I am, in general, proud of the Chicago PD, but that does not mean that I cannot see murder by a bad apple for what it is. Those who reduce "Black Lives matter" to "all lives matter" are merely being gutless in trying to make the very issues go away. ALL lives are not needlessly being snuffed out!
Anyone who cannot get behind "Black Lives Matter" lacks courage and honesty. Anyone who objects that doing so is against cops or hates cops or any other nonsense, is not living in the real world. I am, in general, proud of the Chicago PD, but that does not mean that I cannot see murder by a bad apple for what it is. Those who reduce "Black Lives matter" to "all lives matter" are merely being gutless in trying to make the very issues go away. ALL lives are not needlessly being snuffed out!
11
@ Ann-Marie Hislop - Ann-Marie I enjoyed very much reading about you at Bassey Etim's article and like the manner of presentation here. My comment is awaiting review. I would like to see high quality video showing the armed white men at this demonstration and even video of the quality needed to show what the "four officers stood idle..." If this report can be confirmed, I despair.
Larry
Larry
More people might get behind BLM if it were more discriminating, but it treats every instance of blacks being shot by police officers as being the same: the conduct of the black person is unassailable and that of the officers indefensible. Sometimes that is the case, sometimes not. But BLM won't cloud the narrative with facts: all cops must be tarred with the same brush.
Their rhetoric is exactly like that of the worst racists--it's all black and white, good and bad, with no shades of gray or treatment of people as individuals rather than instances of their theory of the world. BLM are not racists, I know: they only sound that way. Maybe subtlety and nuance are too much to ask, but acknowledging facts ought not to be.
Their rhetoric is exactly like that of the worst racists--it's all black and white, good and bad, with no shades of gray or treatment of people as individuals rather than instances of their theory of the world. BLM are not racists, I know: they only sound that way. Maybe subtlety and nuance are too much to ask, but acknowledging facts ought not to be.
14
"Needlessly?" In almost all of these cases, the "victims" were engaged in suspicious activities if not out right criminal activity, refused to cooperate with recognized law enforcement officers, and fought, charged, or were perceived to be a threat. A 12 year old pointing a realistic gun at police officers, and reportedly smiling as if it was a game and refusing to drop it is a criminal.
4
So many people who are threatened and uncomprehending (often willfully) of a simple statement like "Black lives matter." That alone validates the degree of racism towards Blacks which still exists in this country.
How about just saying "yes, they do" – and try to appreciate the stark reality of so many Black people being gunned down by police, so many disparate bail and sentencing decisions affecting Blacks, so much day to day harassment.
John Crawford was gunned down by police a year ago while shopping in a Walmart in Ohio. No one was charged. Crawford's girlfriend was abused by police. No one was charged.
Who is going to answer for that?
How about just saying "yes, they do" – and try to appreciate the stark reality of so many Black people being gunned down by police, so many disparate bail and sentencing decisions affecting Blacks, so much day to day harassment.
John Crawford was gunned down by police a year ago while shopping in a Walmart in Ohio. No one was charged. Crawford's girlfriend was abused by police. No one was charged.
Who is going to answer for that?
20
The shooters should go to jail for life. If I had my choice, they would receive the death penalty and that punishment would be carried out without delay. That being said, how many blacks were killed by other blacks this weekend? Of course, those deaths are ignored by the media, as they serve no political purpose.
2
The white guys came looking for trouble. Why were they "escorted away" by a safety committee and not by the cops? Also: What is a "citizen journalist?"
Is there any film of this at all? You would think that the police (for a lot of reasons) would be filming the demonstration. What an unholy mess!
Is there any film of this at all? You would think that the police (for a lot of reasons) would be filming the demonstration. What an unholy mess!
8
Like it or not, but these shooters were not escorted away by the police because they had the right to be there. Should the police escort black protesters away from a KKK march?. I guess you are ok when only the rights of people you disagree with are violated. Watch out, soon it will be your rights to vanish.
4
Thomas- the police actually do keep parties apart in KKK rallies. That they did not do anything when these guys showed up was not OK.
Interesting that you are more worried about the rights of "these shooters" than the safety of those peaceably assembling. They came in bullet proof jackets- they were looking to incite. 5 people got shot thanks to these people.
Interesting that you are more worried about the rights of "these shooters" than the safety of those peaceably assembling. They came in bullet proof jackets- they were looking to incite. 5 people got shot thanks to these people.
Just what exactly is a "safety committee" and who gives them the right to escort others away from a public place?
20
Did you even read the article? There had been other instances of men similarly dressed (white men, dressed all in black, wearing ski masks) brandishing a gun and threatening the protesters. The police weren't going to do anything (as also recounted in the article, if you read it). And this same "safety committee" has also escorted others away from the premises--self-styled anarchists and other fellow-travelers threatening violence against the police and the 4th precinct. Do you have a problem with that?
2
They are substitutes for indifferent cops.
I have lived in Minneapolis in the past and the police have been consistently rude and authoritarian. I suspect that it is worse now as police departments nationwide have become more militarized. A well run police culture is one that serves the community and helps people to become better citizens - they should be more like social workers... that carry guns and are better at curbing bad behavior. It is much better for all involved if police would be concerned more with compassionate prevention rather than catching bad guys after a crime has been committed.
6
These events make me hurt for our nation and our society. . Make love not war. have we learned nothing since Selma??
4
[[Have we learned nothing since Selma??]]
As a matter of fact, no, nothing has been learned since Selma.
People are deploying the same tactics…marches and speeches…and hoping for some magical outcome.
It doesn't matter how loud you yell at the police officer in the riot gear, your message is not being heard. That cop probably had her day off cancelled to deal with protesters and she is annoyed because she has children at home whose schoolwork needs checking and she wishes your little rally would be over with already.
As a matter of fact, the people who actively oppose this movement get a chuckle out of every protest march because at the very least nothing gets accomplished and at the very worst black people destroy their own neighborhoods.
Register voters, slate candidates, clarify your message, win elections, achieve change.
You're welcome.
As a matter of fact, no, nothing has been learned since Selma.
People are deploying the same tactics…marches and speeches…and hoping for some magical outcome.
It doesn't matter how loud you yell at the police officer in the riot gear, your message is not being heard. That cop probably had her day off cancelled to deal with protesters and she is annoyed because she has children at home whose schoolwork needs checking and she wishes your little rally would be over with already.
As a matter of fact, the people who actively oppose this movement get a chuckle out of every protest march because at the very least nothing gets accomplished and at the very worst black people destroy their own neighborhoods.
Register voters, slate candidates, clarify your message, win elections, achieve change.
You're welcome.
2
Wow. OK so I've only scanned a few comments and a high percentage of them are trying to make excuses for the shooters!
Why - the young black person who got shot was a bad person; the police aren't that bad; the Black Lives Matter "narrative" is the only one being reported; the poor shooters were simply defending themselves from the protesters - who by all reports have been peaceful.
This is getting real FOX/Trumpy isn't it.
Fact: five people were shot! What about this don't you guys get? This is no excuse for it!
America specifically protects the right of free speech and the right of free assembly, which includes speech and protests by people who aren't white. You don't get to rough them up or shoot them, period! It does not matter whether so & so was not a nice person or if you don't like the phrase Black Lives Matter.
That's the law and more importantly it's a core value of the country you guys claim to love.
Sometimes I wonder.
Why - the young black person who got shot was a bad person; the police aren't that bad; the Black Lives Matter "narrative" is the only one being reported; the poor shooters were simply defending themselves from the protesters - who by all reports have been peaceful.
This is getting real FOX/Trumpy isn't it.
Fact: five people were shot! What about this don't you guys get? This is no excuse for it!
America specifically protects the right of free speech and the right of free assembly, which includes speech and protests by people who aren't white. You don't get to rough them up or shoot them, period! It does not matter whether so & so was not a nice person or if you don't like the phrase Black Lives Matter.
That's the law and more importantly it's a core value of the country you guys claim to love.
Sometimes I wonder.
48
[[Sophia chicago
Wow. OK so I've only scanned a few comments and a high percentage of them are trying to make excuses for the shooters!]]
It's a free country.
Wow. OK so I've only scanned a few comments and a high percentage of them are trying to make excuses for the shooters!]]
It's a free country.
8
Sophia,please allow me to make you aware of the larger situation.
1)Americans have a high tolerance for casualties.
2)It is cold on the street, many of us are reading next to a warm fireplace.
3)Police departments are not your enemy, accept their limits and be friendly.
4) The courts are your friends. Allow the legal process to work. It is the only solution.
5) My favorite presidential candidate is accepting a ton of contributions whenever #BLM makes a ripple.
6) Control your group, all of them. Don't let the agitators call themselves the "safety committee". They apparently cannot grasp the concept well enough to keep themselves safe, much less you.
7)Join the Republican party, we like all people with guts and a love for liberty.
8) Don't do drugs and carry sharp objects in public places.
Hope this helps. Take a break have a nice Thanksgiving Holiday.
1)Americans have a high tolerance for casualties.
2)It is cold on the street, many of us are reading next to a warm fireplace.
3)Police departments are not your enemy, accept their limits and be friendly.
4) The courts are your friends. Allow the legal process to work. It is the only solution.
5) My favorite presidential candidate is accepting a ton of contributions whenever #BLM makes a ripple.
6) Control your group, all of them. Don't let the agitators call themselves the "safety committee". They apparently cannot grasp the concept well enough to keep themselves safe, much less you.
7)Join the Republican party, we like all people with guts and a love for liberty.
8) Don't do drugs and carry sharp objects in public places.
Hope this helps. Take a break have a nice Thanksgiving Holiday.
Yes it certainly is a free country. A freedom which should endow the country's citizens the right to organize a protest without fear of violence or death for expressing their political and social views. A freedom which gives Sophia the right to find it horrendous that five people were shot, and shocked and appalled at the insensitivity of some for the sanctity of those people's lives. I'm going to exercise my freedom and say I absolutely agree with her! It doesn't matter if you agree with what they were protesting or advocating for, the point is they had the right to do so, free from fear of being shot at.
1
You can't have it both ways. The police cannot both leave black people alone, and enforce the law and protect innocent civilians. BLM supporters need to decide which they want. Today you don't like them, tomorrow you need them because you got raped, assaulted, robbed, etc. Do you want to live in lawlessness, or do you want police to track down criminals? Please decide and let the rest of us know.
23
Maybe stick to situations in Canada- this one is clearly eluding you.
You get to be a citizen with rights in America. We ALL pay law enforcement to protect the community for all of us. Connect those 2 dots.
You get to be a citizen with rights in America. We ALL pay law enforcement to protect the community for all of us. Connect those 2 dots.
8
We want the police to protect everyone, to treat everyone with respect, and to do their jobs, which is "tracking down criminals." This is what is written in one form or another on most police cars around the country. But, unfortunately, it is frequently not what happens.
3
Reply to Manitoban: The police are supposed to PROTECT people AND respect them. It's like walking and talking at the same time. You don't have to choose one or the other. Citizens want to be able to walk about without being harassed, bullied, given unwarranted summonses or subjected to illegal stops or arrests. At the same time they want to be protected when they specifically report to the police that they are concerned about specific MASKED people who looked threatening and - in fact - proved that threat by shooting peaceful protesters. Right now the two tasks the police seem to be able to manage simultaneously are bullying and being lazy. Oh yes, and shooting people in cold blood and then quickly trying to manufacture a story to cover up what actually happened. By now, even I could compose one of those so-called "reports."
8
Looks like a lot of the commentators here believe what they want to believe. Why do the detractors of Black Lives Matter feel so threatened? I bet none of them have actually been threatened or feel threatened by police.
18
Ted, many of us are skeptical of black lives matter because it detracts away from real issues (e.g. Police brutality), and morphs it into a white vs. black issue). Take for instance the death of James Boyd at the hands of police in my city. It was one of the first deaths (executions) recorded on a body camera and I highly encourage you to look it up. This death received no coverage by the black lives matter movement. Why? It didn't fit into their narrative, James Boyd was white, though there would have been a completely different outcome if he was black. Additionally, BLM utilizes sweep words, they whether you agree with their meaning, come off as extremely offensive to non-black people that have never held power. Accusing someone of "White Privilege" when they disagree with you icones off as an insult, no matter how you frame it. Oh and by the way, I have felt threatened many times by the police; most notably when a police officer drew their gun on me when they confused the gps in my hand as a firearm.
1
You are right; I have never felt threatened by police. I am willing to admit a large part of that is because I am a white woman. But I also have been extremely deferential and respectful in all my encounters with police. I can't even fathom being so openly hostile and defiant to law enforcement. I'm not saying all cases of police misconduct start with defiant citizens, but a staggering number do appear to start that way. The same is true in schools. I don't want to live in a society ruled by mob. We must all be held accountable for how we treat our fellows.
White supremacist/counter protesters going to Black lives matter protest armed and in a balaclava, what can go wrong? The BLM protesters were apparently warned by the Minneapolis Police because these Gentlemen posted a video while in a car where they displayed a automatic hand gun, and voiced they're opposition to and they're intention to go to the BLM protest armed and masked. The fact that they felt threaten enough to discharged their firearm at unarmed people was foreseeable. These young men left their home armed to directly and personally confront people. Then claim they were afraid of those unarmed people, they could stayed home and watched TV . Their actions caused the fear that was the reason for discharge of firearms.
9
In all but one video, we clearly see a black person breaking regs or laws and trying to evade an officer of the law. Maybe this is over simplifying, but couldn't we just OBEY the laws to begin with, thus police action wouldn't be needed or requested?!
14
Tell that to John Crawford, murdered by police while shopping in a Walmart in Ohio last year. No one charged in his death. Tell that to any number of other Black people who have suffered similar fates.
This whole white response about how "if Black people just. . ." is sickening. Stop excusing the incompetant behavior by police.
This whole white response about how "if Black people just. . ." is sickening. Stop excusing the incompetant behavior by police.
12
Minor infractions should not evoke capital punishment. Most police departments are made up of educated-by-tv high school graduates or even drop outs BUT later got a GED. A college education gives a person a wider understanding of life, social and political systems, the evolution of man and sophisticated comparisons between racial communities and their values. Make a college degree required of all police candidates, and you would see a whole different kind of police force.
5
It seems that the likes of Donald Trump and his minions are pushing the USA into a very nasty race war.
Trump is inciting a war. Examples include the white teen that shot the 9 black church members. And the numerous police shooting of unarmed black people.
Last week a white group was arrested for planning the burning of Synagogues and black churches.
It is time that Trump is removed from the race for President
As the USA becomes majority brown, the last bastion of racists are trying to start a “final solution”. For the sake of the country, Trump must be asked to leave the race for President.
Trump is inciting a war. Examples include the white teen that shot the 9 black church members. And the numerous police shooting of unarmed black people.
Last week a white group was arrested for planning the burning of Synagogues and black churches.
It is time that Trump is removed from the race for President
As the USA becomes majority brown, the last bastion of racists are trying to start a “final solution”. For the sake of the country, Trump must be asked to leave the race for President.
8
Hey, at least Charles Manson will finally feel vindicated. Trump should make him his running mate! But on a more serious note, I agree with you. I wouldn't go as far as to say there is a conspiracy to start a race war, but racial tensions are definitely at a high point. And Trump and other hardline conservatives can deny it all they want, but much of their rhetoric is blatantly racist.
1
Reality check a lot trobbile makers out there looking to drag people into there cause,s Every one should be more aware not every one is who they say they are these days. We have people who make mistakes an we there are those who are opprotonist looking to insite others into sense unrest . Few bad apples can ruin it for every one do we want world for our children that's become police state. Send all criminals back jail don't let them loose on streets to terrorize our women an children
1
I'm really unclear as to whether you're criticizing white supremacists or the black lives matter movement. Regardless, nobody deserves to be shot at while participating in a protest. As much as I despise their ideology, I'd even say that about a rally of white supremacists. How hard is it for all of us to agree that as US citizens we have the right to assembly and also to not be shot at for doing so?
I have only reluctantly come to believe that many people-from all walks of life-- are fundamentally racist and exclusionary in their thinking, despite all their protestations to the contrary. We seem to instinctively suspect all persons who are not from our own group, or neighborhood, or social class or ethnic, and we look to selective inferences and "evidence" to bolster our negative view of the "other" guy. But I am at a loss to fully explain this phenomenon.
6
Slavery/ Institutionalized racism. Defacto racism. What more to understand?
It's distressing to read commenters defend the shooters in this story, because you can see how thin their veneer of humanity is wearing. America has slipped economically, and old Uncle Intolerance has started showing up again around the family functions. <br/><br/>Sure, somebody should ask him to leave, but really he's entitled to his opinion, isn't he? And anyway, he's family.
14
Wow. I've been watching the BLM protests all over the country and have been generally sympathetic and have assumed their concerns are valid (and mostly I think they still are), but as someone who lives in Minneapolis and has maybe a few more details than the national news reports, I am beginning to wonder. These protests began when the police shot a black man, who had apparently been assaulting a girlfriend and allegedly had interfered with the paramedic's attempts to treat her. There are conflicting reports as to whether the victim was handcuffed when he was shot. What is not in dispute, though, is that the city immediately called for an investigation from outside agencies, which is ongoing, and they have bent over backwards in making statements about how protesters have a 1st amendment right to protest. And there have been protests for days and days at the police station, sometimes blocking the entrance so others can't enter. Why is it that BLM assumes that they know the police were wrong when the investigation has not been completed? I heard one BLM representative state on MPR that one of their demands was that outside agencies conduct an investigation, which they acknowledged had been granted, but their other demand was that the officer be convicted. What? What happened to the investigation to see if there was wrongdoing??<br/><br/>There is no excuse for the shootings of the protesters, but is it really true that the police were slow to respond or just more hyperbole.
27
Tamir Rice has been dead a year and police in Cleveland are still "investigating".
How is it white people don't see the pattern to these police killings of Black people? Do you also not see the injustices in how bail assigned or how sentencing is meted out? Can you really not see it?
How is it white people don't see the pattern to these police killings of Black people? Do you also not see the injustices in how bail assigned or how sentencing is meted out? Can you really not see it?
4
Minneapolis isn't Cleveland and I wasn't talking about a police investigation - the city immediately called for a federal investigation. What alternative are you suggesting?
Yes, I see many injustices against Black people and have done my share in trying to right the wrongs. Why are you assuming I don't see the injustices? Just because I haven't jumped to a conclusion about a single event?
Yes, I see many injustices against Black people and have done my share in trying to right the wrongs. Why are you assuming I don't see the injustices? Just because I haven't jumped to a conclusion about a single event?
5
[[ Miski Noor said “They made disparaging comments to those at the protests instead of taking the threat seriously. We reiterate that we have zero faith in this Police Department’s desire to keep our community safe.”]]
Ahhh, well, then I suggest you and your group take advantage of Minnesotas rather liberal policies on gun ownership and that you arm yourselves. Let's call it the Black Lives Matter Militia. That ought to make a few people's heads spin around.
Ahhh, well, then I suggest you and your group take advantage of Minnesotas rather liberal policies on gun ownership and that you arm yourselves. Let's call it the Black Lives Matter Militia. That ought to make a few people's heads spin around.
1
What about the black life of the abused woman - she called the police.
9
It's better that they keep protesting and make the police change so that they do their actual jobs instead of whatever fantasy job of breaking heads and ignoring violence they've made up for themselves.
The racists are certainly out and howling tonight. Good. It means they're hurting. And exposing their views in public always alienates another big chunk of the American people, who support liberty and justice for all.
7
Thank you for putting things in that light, Neal. All the racism coming from everyone from online commenters to our so-called politicians has been so depressing, but you make a good point. At least all these racists and their racist opinions are coming out of the woodwork. The side-effect of PC culture in our country has been that people can just hide whatever bigoted thoughts they have. All these folks saying hateful, racist things didn't just wake up that way last week or last month--I'd prefer they come out and say what they have to say. Maybe the rest of us will finally get angry enough to actually do something about it!
1
It's amazing how hostile many people are to the simple statement that black lives matter.
It is not "only black lives matter." It is a simple acknowledgement that black people's lives count.
It is strange and sad, that the only response to the statement "black lives matter" I haven't seen is "Yes, that's true."
It is not "only black lives matter." It is a simple acknowledgement that black people's lives count.
It is strange and sad, that the only response to the statement "black lives matter" I haven't seen is "Yes, that's true."
43
No, it really isn't. When you say group x lives matter, what you are saying is they matter more than others, not that they matter the same. Everyone already knows they matter the same.
If the campaign was 'all lives matter', that would be respectful and convey the message that blacks should be treated equally. But BLM is not about blacks being treated equally, it is just an attempt to justify blind rage and violence.
If the campaign was 'all lives matter', that would be respectful and convey the message that blacks should be treated equally. But BLM is not about blacks being treated equally, it is just an attempt to justify blind rage and violence.
8
The thing is, it's a very simple declarative statement. The philosophy may be enough around which to organize a movement, but if the extent of the movement is that people block traffic, march in circles and scream at the police then people with no skin it that game (so to speak) aren''t able to engage with the protesters and support them.
As bourgeois as it sounds, if you're hoping to bring about change you have to register voters, raise money, target politicians who don't support your goals and get them out of office. You can't just demand change from government, you have to become part of government and create change from within the system.
Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.
As bourgeois as it sounds, if you're hoping to bring about change you have to register voters, raise money, target politicians who don't support your goals and get them out of office. You can't just demand change from government, you have to become part of government and create change from within the system.
Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time.
12
[[It is strange and sad, that the only response to the statement "black lives matter" I haven't seen is "Yes, that's true."]]
Why do you need outside validation of your core beliefs?
If you believe in a god and I don't, is your belief in a god diminished?
Stop saying "Black Lives Matter" and start acting as if black lives matter. You don't need me or anyone else to share your belief.
Where are the mass marches for the hundreds and thousands of black people killed by other black people? Why only mobilize when someone dies at the hands of the police?
Why do you need outside validation of your core beliefs?
If you believe in a god and I don't, is your belief in a god diminished?
Stop saying "Black Lives Matter" and start acting as if black lives matter. You don't need me or anyone else to share your belief.
Where are the mass marches for the hundreds and thousands of black people killed by other black people? Why only mobilize when someone dies at the hands of the police?
10
There's a highly unusual number of anti-BLM trolls around here. None seem concerned about the fact that masked men with weapons decided to open fire at a crowd that was not a threat to them. Instead they focus on "they got what they wanted" as if that's a concession to the protesters. What? They should be grateful that they were allowed to protest at all? Do they not know "their place"?
43
And what about the testimony of people present at the protest that state people in the crowd yelling at supposed white supremacists struck them first? And that they pursued them and only then did said people open fire in self-defense?
6
You are allowed to wear masks, bear weapons, and be in a public place. That is completely lawful.
You are not, on the other hand, allowed to, as a group of civilians, limit the freedom of movement of other civilians in a public place.
You are not, on the other hand, allowed to, as a group of civilians, limit the freedom of movement of other civilians in a public place.
13
People who shoot in self defense wait for the police. They don't run and hide until the police find them. Give this line of thinking a rest already.
6
I subscribe to, read and get the largest portion of my news every day from the NYTimes, but I have to say this article is shockingly bad reporting. It accepts unquestioningly the narrative of the BLM protesters despite clear red flags, including a video by some of those involved recounting how they chased and punched the men who later shot at them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETCpiEeQwE&feature=youtu.be), but which isn't mentioned, by glossing over the absolute lack of any reason the men were not entitled to be there and the lack of any supposed provocation, and by adopting overall the rhetoric of victimhood. The following paragraph alone raises numerous questions the NYT doesn't even acknowledge, never mind attempt to answer:
"On Monday night, community members asked the men what they were doing and asked them to remove their masks, she said, but they refused and were then escorted away. About half a block from the Fourth Precinct, the epicenter of the protests, the masked men opened fire, she said."
It may turn out that the three men intended the eventual outcome, but that is far from clear now, though the NYT makes it seem so.
"On Monday night, community members asked the men what they were doing and asked them to remove their masks, she said, but they refused and were then escorted away. About half a block from the Fourth Precinct, the epicenter of the protests, the masked men opened fire, she said."
It may turn out that the three men intended the eventual outcome, but that is far from clear now, though the NYT makes it seem so.
32
I guess if someone has a bullet in their abdomen there was a shot.
Are you upset that protesters reported a shot and there was one? And that it was then reported by the NYT? Why is that surprising in any way?
Are you upset that protesters reported a shot and there was one? And that it was then reported by the NYT? Why is that surprising in any way?
15
Because they completely gloss over the fact that multiple people present at the protest have video recordings claiming the protesters were the ones who approached, threatened, and physically assaulted the supposed "white supremacists." That even tangentally mentioned as a rumor is not even anywhere present in this article.
THAT'S the problem.
THAT'S the problem.
10
Not even slightly relevant to the comment you are supposedly responding to.
It doesn't appear that readers will be able to view objective news about this incident via the NY Times, because the Times, which has basically become the main propaganda organ for black lives matter, will do nothing but fan the flames. They do this because it sells papers and clicks. Any honest reading of these events from more objective sources clearly indicates that this was self-defense.
Of course, this is not what the Times or many commenters want - they want it to be purely a case of white on black racial violence, regardless of the facts. They don't even wait for facts. For the Times, it's mainly dollar signs; for the others it is a vindication of their precious dogma, which is: White = malignant evil; Black = innocent and pure.
The black lives matter "movement" is primarily engaged in protesting and rioting on behalf of black criminals, as we saw with Michael Brown and as we now see with this latest punk, who viciously beat his girlfriend, then attacked paramedics trying to treat her, then attacked the cops. Black lives matter is by far the most vocal racist group in America today, and now they are resorting to violence.
It is time for the gloves to come off. Any person who resorts to violence in defense of criminals needs to be locked up, because that person is a criminal also. Get it straight - you are not civil rights heroes - you are criminals acting on behalf of criminals. And the time has come to crack down.
Of course, this is not what the Times or many commenters want - they want it to be purely a case of white on black racial violence, regardless of the facts. They don't even wait for facts. For the Times, it's mainly dollar signs; for the others it is a vindication of their precious dogma, which is: White = malignant evil; Black = innocent and pure.
The black lives matter "movement" is primarily engaged in protesting and rioting on behalf of black criminals, as we saw with Michael Brown and as we now see with this latest punk, who viciously beat his girlfriend, then attacked paramedics trying to treat her, then attacked the cops. Black lives matter is by far the most vocal racist group in America today, and now they are resorting to violence.
It is time for the gloves to come off. Any person who resorts to violence in defense of criminals needs to be locked up, because that person is a criminal also. Get it straight - you are not civil rights heroes - you are criminals acting on behalf of criminals. And the time has come to crack down.
33
rfj - are you insane? three gunman opened fire on a peaceful crowd exercising their constitutional right to assembly.
how is that ok?
how is that ok?
13
Well clearly your standards are fairly low for yourself. There are facts and they have been reported. You don't get to make up your own facts. Own your opinions- they are yours. Everybody gets that.
That you do not like an organization whether it is BLM or the Tea Party has nothing to do with events. Being concerned about who is most racist in America is your personal project, not a law enforcement issue. Maybe you should leave your mittens on and let cooler heads prevail. You seem verklempt.
That you do not like an organization whether it is BLM or the Tea Party has nothing to do with events. Being concerned about who is most racist in America is your personal project, not a law enforcement issue. Maybe you should leave your mittens on and let cooler heads prevail. You seem verklempt.
16
Even if what you say we're true, that the protesters were engaging in a criminal act by protest get (which is not my opinion), the "crackdown" you say should happen should not be administered by masked vigilantes.
8
And here's the candidate for you! Trump affirms that the Black Lives Matter protester at his recent Alabama rally "maybe should have been roughed up." This is a presidential candidate. A presidential candidate leading in the Republican polls. What have we become, America?
24
The fact that some clown is running for president, does not make it ok for a mob to force people away from a public area they are fully and lawfully entitled to be in.
5
I am still waiting for the article on Jamar Clarks girlfriend that he assaulted and then when he interfered with the paramedics that came to help her; where is her story? She must be so sad that her wonderful boyfriend was killed while trying to prevent her getting medical care from the injuries he inflicted.
40
Yup, old BLM doesn't seem to want to talk about what a wonderful, non-violent guy this person was - NOT!
7
Are you suggesting that masked gunmen firing into a crowd of peaceful protestors is ok?
5
Wow, what a sad commentary on the tragic necessity of the Black Lives Matters movement: black protestors shot in the dark by a group of masked white men who had been able to confidently shadow the protestors for days. Isn't it suspicious for people to hang around with their faces hidden by ski masks? Why weren't they questioned and frisked by the police earlier? And this is Minneapolis, 2015, not Selma 1965. I am shaking my head, wondering what mothers are saying to their black sons and daughters; I would not know what to say. But I will now march too.
21
I thought Guy Fox had a pass at these events?
Sad, sad, sad. What do we in this country have to give thanks for?
Considering a recent op ed piece in these pages (from Arthur C. Brooks, president of American Enterprise Institute, a right-wing "think" tank), seriously?
We should give thanks for the murder, mayhem and malevolence of so many in this country, including whites who target blacks?
How is it not possible that BLA CK LIVES MATTER, in this context, in this day and age? I, as a white woman, mother of biracial children give thanks for NOTHING this Thanksgiving, except for the love we share in our family.
Other than that, hunker down and shun everyone else.
Considering a recent op ed piece in these pages (from Arthur C. Brooks, president of American Enterprise Institute, a right-wing "think" tank), seriously?
We should give thanks for the murder, mayhem and malevolence of so many in this country, including whites who target blacks?
How is it not possible that BLA CK LIVES MATTER, in this context, in this day and age? I, as a white woman, mother of biracial children give thanks for NOTHING this Thanksgiving, except for the love we share in our family.
Other than that, hunker down and shun everyone else.
6
This is just so sad. Terrorizing peaceful protestors has a long history in the US, and our lax gun laws make it so easy to do.
Thank God this didn't happen in Florida, where they would just hide behind a Stand Your Ground defense.
Thank God this didn't happen in Florida, where they would just hide behind a Stand Your Ground defense.
16
Except, this isn't what happened at all. I highly suspect the NY Times will be issuing an apology very soon for their bias in news reporting because they simply didn't bother getting both sides of the story or ignored eye witness testimony because it makes someone look bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNRKvjThTwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNRKvjThTwg
22
Yes, please watch this video.
5
If you are waiting for an apology, don't expect it in your lifetime.
1
The accusations on all sides of this situation are getting out of control!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQzNBYcfzU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpQzNBYcfzU
Well, they got what they wanted. They're victims now. Congrats. Now what? I bet they're already making hour long statements that they can't wait to recite to the world after the shooters are convicted and they make victim statements... Not that they don't deserve to tell them off but considering what they're going to say and we all know what they will say and how they'll say it I think the shooters would rather be the victims once it's all over with.
4
As a non-white and no horse at this race, I'm getting tire of BLM and what they stand for.
BLM don't want to address the real issue of under education, under value of family union, Black on black crime. They have become professional protesters and expect the rest of America to pander to they wishes.
All these protests don't they have jobs or school to go to?
BLM don't want to address the real issue of under education, under value of family union, Black on black crime. They have become professional protesters and expect the rest of America to pander to they wishes.
All these protests don't they have jobs or school to go to?
34
And would anyone in his right mind ever want to hire one of these protestors? Do they even realize what they are doing to their decent hard working fellow blacks?
4
And yet, at the end of the day, Constitution-wise, it means squat that you "do not like protestors" or their expressed opinions. So what? In America you get the right to assemble and say what is on your mind. Not everyone is going to agree with you either. Tolerating different opinion is part of the deal here.
To those making a big deal about the BLM protesters escorting the men away from the demostration, what if that young black man who was "escorted" from the trump rally had pulled a pistol and aimed at his attackers, would you still feel the black man was in his rights to shoot. Let's be careful that the same rules and laws ally to everyone regardless of color.
19
The coverage of these violent, unlawful, inexcusable acts by the NYT seems to be racially biased in favor of supporting the message of the very group they are reporting on: Black Lives Matter. Specifically, the shootings in Minneapolis, the police shooting in Chicago and others (e.g. Ferguson, etc.) have all been placed on the front page of the paper and the stories have all been framed within the context of racially motivated crimes. Yet, during this same time period other events have occurred which have not been so conspicuously reported by the NYT: a black man shot and attempted to assassinate a white male medical student in New Orleans, who was coming to aid a woman being abducted. Why was that not on the front page of the NYT alongside these other stories? Wouldn't that information add context to these other stories? Was this a racially motivated crime or just a brutal crime by a criminal who also happened to be black. Also, a pregnant white woman, a pastor's wife, was brutally raped and assassinated while in her own home, in Indianapolis; two young black men have been arrested and charged for this heinous crime. Was this a racially motivated hate crime? Why was this not reported on the front page of the NYT alongside these other stories? Perhaps because these stories reflect an uncomfortable and inconvenient truth that the NYT, and many of its readers, choose to willfully deny. We can all speculate on what motivates this biased coverage.
40
What about all the black cops shooting unarmed white people? That would be the analogue of the white cops shooting unarmed blacks stories the NYT reports on. Would you mind providing some citations where black cops shot white civilians, please, to support your point? There are thousands of shootings in America, and cherry picking a few where black criminals shot a white person proves nothing.
4
Well 5 Americans getting shot while assembling is a news story.
3
MSP rumors are developing that when the full details are released it will show that the same group of men were at the BLM camp the night before, and were chased away by armed BLM protesters. Hang on, we'll see where this story goes. I hope the media in Chicago will start to report, on equal frequency, the other killings in the city that happen dozens of times per week...typically black on black crime.
19
Easy to say when you are the majority and don't fear leaving your home.
6
Yeah, always look to blame black people for the white guys dressing up like ISIS, after threatening for days, and then showing up to do harm. White guys threatening black people with guns hmmmm. Must be the black guys did something to cause it. Just like that white cop that pumped 16 shots into a young black guy armed with a 3" blade folding penknife, shot him in the front, back and top of head after he was long dead. Yeah, that black guy never should have had that 3" knife and threatened that crowd of 10 cops, 9 of whom never pulled their guns.
Can't understand why people like you complain about black on black crime. That's the answer to you prayers. All the while, you are ignoring the white on white crime by our very special young white guys who like taking out children, church-goers, movie-goers, mall shoppers. These white-on-white crimes have far outnumbered the "terrorist' attacks on America, but our white guys are not terrorists, they are just confused. On the other hand, every black guy walking around with a pen knife should die. Welcome to the new America. this is the dream world of Donald Trump and white supremacists. Kill at will, just don't take guns away from our disenfranchised white boys and people on the terror watch lists. Why, some of those folk could be nice white guys who only want to have an oozy to protect his family.
We are a 3rd world country in every way that really matters.
Can't understand why people like you complain about black on black crime. That's the answer to you prayers. All the while, you are ignoring the white on white crime by our very special young white guys who like taking out children, church-goers, movie-goers, mall shoppers. These white-on-white crimes have far outnumbered the "terrorist' attacks on America, but our white guys are not terrorists, they are just confused. On the other hand, every black guy walking around with a pen knife should die. Welcome to the new America. this is the dream world of Donald Trump and white supremacists. Kill at will, just don't take guns away from our disenfranchised white boys and people on the terror watch lists. Why, some of those folk could be nice white guys who only want to have an oozy to protect his family.
We are a 3rd world country in every way that really matters.
20
Well ya there is video evidence that the BLM mob did specifically do something to cause it - by trying to force them into an area where they were threatened. It is not a theory, is is exactly what was reported in the above posted video if you care to watch.
2
This sad & unfortunate.
But it's what happens when a hate group like Black Lives Matter incites everyday, on top of advocating violence against police.
Obama had the leaders of BLM to the white house and told them to "stay the course." Then Ferguson burned, then Baltimore.
Police have been targeted and killed. When does it end? When does BLM get the same treatment as the racist KKK?
But it's what happens when a hate group like Black Lives Matter incites everyday, on top of advocating violence against police.
Obama had the leaders of BLM to the white house and told them to "stay the course." Then Ferguson burned, then Baltimore.
Police have been targeted and killed. When does it end? When does BLM get the same treatment as the racist KKK?
13
If BLM is a hate group, then so is the Republican party.
19
The KKK murdered and terrorized African-Americans for a century, with the active support of police.
To the best of my knowledge, no BLM members have sought to target police for lynchings or murders, only to demand that police treat ALL citizens the same.
Until Black Lives Matter, NO lives matter!
To the best of my knowledge, no BLM members have sought to target police for lynchings or murders, only to demand that police treat ALL citizens the same.
Until Black Lives Matter, NO lives matter!
14
Come on Jackson- you are off in the tumbleweeds. I really hope you are a Texas transplant, because we used to know this stuff from the cradle: Facts are not your friends on this one.You either believe in First Amendment rights or you don't. For everyone.
Sorry, but your assigned intentions for other Americans don't mean diddly. These folks still have every right to assemble, regardless of whatever kind of cobbled-together hysterics you attach to them, however self-righteous and high and mighty you feel. Get over yourself- it is not your place to grant rights to other Americans. It is a guarantee of the US Constitution.
Sorry, but your assigned intentions for other Americans don't mean diddly. These folks still have every right to assemble, regardless of whatever kind of cobbled-together hysterics you attach to them, however self-righteous and high and mighty you feel. Get over yourself- it is not your place to grant rights to other Americans. It is a guarantee of the US Constitution.
4
Seems that the shooters were actually acting in self defense after being attacked by the BLM protesters.
From the BLM participants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETCpiEeQwE&feature=youtu.be
From the BLM participants:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hETCpiEeQwE&feature=youtu.be
13
Between this and that horrific video just released of Laquan McDonald's tragic murder by a police officer in Chicago, some things are likely about to go down in this country. Hopefully cool heads will prevail, because fighting fire with gasoline will never be the way to peace.
It's imperative to have a politically active civil rights movement, but we've got to figure out a peaceful way to resolve this mess.
It's imperative to have a politically active civil rights movement, but we've got to figure out a peaceful way to resolve this mess.
18
Let's see. Men behaving "shady" and dressed with their faces covered -- is that like a hoodie? -- so a "safety committee" -- is that anything like a community watch group? -- goes to find out what they're up to and "escort them away".
Folks at "Occupy" rallies were ROUTINELY masked and acting "shady". But if a squadron of self-appointed vigilantes decided to usher them off, would they not provoking a fight? We don't know who acted first, or did what, by "safety committees" have an ominous ring to them. Given the behavior at BLM gatherings, it's doubtful that the "safety committee" acted gently, or used proper police procedures.
It might turn out to be that the folks who pulled the trigger were in the wrong; time will tell, and it's an error to jump to conclusions in the absence of data. That said, if these vigilantes were "white", and the folks whom they considered "shady" -- for daring to film and refusing to answer questions -- Black, would the media narrative be the sanme?
Perhaps the "Black Lives Matter" folks should leave policing up to the police?
Folks at "Occupy" rallies were ROUTINELY masked and acting "shady". But if a squadron of self-appointed vigilantes decided to usher them off, would they not provoking a fight? We don't know who acted first, or did what, by "safety committees" have an ominous ring to them. Given the behavior at BLM gatherings, it's doubtful that the "safety committee" acted gently, or used proper police procedures.
It might turn out to be that the folks who pulled the trigger were in the wrong; time will tell, and it's an error to jump to conclusions in the absence of data. That said, if these vigilantes were "white", and the folks whom they considered "shady" -- for daring to film and refusing to answer questions -- Black, would the media narrative be the sanme?
Perhaps the "Black Lives Matter" folks should leave policing up to the police?
12
FYI - A hoodie is a jacket with a built in hat - the video shows the shooters with ski masks on. What would be 'shady' is if the activists had shot them out of fear and claimed they saw a gun, which they clearly had.
5
To answer your first question, a "mask" is different from a hoodie. Does that help? In any case, being escorted away from the protest is no justification for opening fire. The implication that it is, is truly terrifying.
9
First, under your rationalization the guy who was being beaten by Trump supporters a few days ago was fully justified in pulling out a gun and opening fire on the people assaulting him. Indeed, I believe Alabama has a "stand your ground" law which would have fully vindicated him.
Is that really what you want?
Is that really what you want?
5
Gee - and how many times have I been informed by Northerners that these types of incidents are partial to the South. You mean to tell me that there is racism in super liberal Minneapolis too? Golly. Who knew?
4
It says a lot about America when people hear "white lives don't matter" when they hear "black lives matter."
32
...only people who see things in black and white terms could confuse the two. Fallacy of the excluded middle, I think it's called.
2
Because 'all lives matter' is a far more accurate, inclusive, respectful and grown up way to convey the message, 'black lives matter' garners rightful automatic suspicion.
There is furthermore a great irony to the BLM phraseology, since several orders of magnitude worth of black lives are taken by blacks, compared to by whites or by police. If it was really about black lives, the campaign would focus on that.
But you and I both know that it is not about black lives.
Meanwhile, plenty of non-white minority immigrants continue to far surpass blacks and even surpass whites by many metrics. That includes African immigrants. Nigerians graduate university in the US at roughly the same rate African Americans graduate high school. And have fewer encounters with police than whites. With the same black skin.
But that doesn't work with the story, does it?
There is furthermore a great irony to the BLM phraseology, since several orders of magnitude worth of black lives are taken by blacks, compared to by whites or by police. If it was really about black lives, the campaign would focus on that.
But you and I both know that it is not about black lives.
Meanwhile, plenty of non-white minority immigrants continue to far surpass blacks and even surpass whites by many metrics. That includes African immigrants. Nigerians graduate university in the US at roughly the same rate African Americans graduate high school. And have fewer encounters with police than whites. With the same black skin.
But that doesn't work with the story, does it?
7
BLACK LIVES MATTER So do all lives matter. Guess what--video cams and broadcasting of police and civilian interactions takes conflicts into the court of public opinion. It also provides hard evidence of the violations perpetrated, by whom and how. Fortunately, in these cases, justice is not blinded for lack of firsthand visual evidence.
5
Sadly, even with video we're finding members of the public still willing to overlook excessive force and overuse of deadly weapons against black citizens that would never be tolerated against white citizens...
Until police are held to the same legal standards as all other citizens, there will be no justice.
Until police are held to the same legal standards as all other citizens, there will be no justice.
7
report, linked from NPR:
The #BLM are claiming the shooting was an unprovoked attack by white supremacists. However, a video taken moments after the shooting indicates otherwise.
Two witnesses, with their faces covered, relate how the #BLM mob attacked three whites who were doing nothing but recording the protest. According to these two witnesses, the whites were attacked ("punched") three times as protesters tried to herd them to a secluded area.
After each of the first two attacks, the whites retreated, but the third time they responded in apparent self-defense, according to the #BLM protesters interviewed immediately afterwards.
The person taking the video below was not from the white group. This camera person complied when the #BLM protesters told him to stop filming. After the shooting, he resumed video recording to interview witnesses.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
The #BLM are claiming the shooting was an unprovoked attack by white supremacists. However, a video taken moments after the shooting indicates otherwise.
Two witnesses, with their faces covered, relate how the #BLM mob attacked three whites who were doing nothing but recording the protest. According to these two witnesses, the whites were attacked ("punched") three times as protesters tried to herd them to a secluded area.
After each of the first two attacks, the whites retreated, but the third time they responded in apparent self-defense, according to the #BLM protesters interviewed immediately afterwards.
The person taking the video below was not from the white group. This camera person complied when the #BLM protesters told him to stop filming. After the shooting, he resumed video recording to interview witnesses.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
17
I must say I am simply amazed. To read all the comments that attack the protesters and support those who attempted to kill them indicates to me that we are moving towards a racialized Fascism. I wonder if Larry David and Maureen Dowd and others who have coddled Trump find this amusing and cute as well. I guess it's easy to be with the jackboots until they come for you.
19
Just False narratives and bankrupt ideas behind BLM
10
Some people are questioning the BLM behavior but it was these suspicious people who showed up to a protest in front of a Police station with a gun(s). Where is the questions concerning that these people had guns. The BLM participants called it right to be concerned about those characters. Clearly they showed up armed looking for trouble and they did just that. The BLM should be commended for their due diligence .
13
Under slightly different circumstances, this act would have been labelled a terrorist attack.
6
RIP Eric Garner, all police need to be held accountable!
10
It appears to me the NYT and others are trying to radicalize black youth using similar propaganda that ISIS, Al Queda, and others use. One never hears a balanced view here.
25
Do you really suppose that black youth need the New York Times to radicalize them? Do you suppose young black people need to read about police brutality in the New York Times? Otherwise, black people won't know anything about police killing unarmed black youth in the back?
1
Good grief- your post is an example of "a balanced view"?? lol.
If you think getting informed via a newspaper is some radical act, then maybe try educating yourself about the Constitutional rights of Americans.
If you think getting informed via a newspaper is some radical act, then maybe try educating yourself about the Constitutional rights of Americans.
2
There is a serious factual gap between when the alleged shooters were being escorted away to a "dark area" ( what does that mean ?) and the shooting. It is not possible to reach any conclusions without these facts.
Most distressful is the continued use of racial identity in news reports. Sadly, at more than any time during my lifetime, we seem compelled to place each and every one of us into distinct and separate racial and ethnic categories and to constantly remind each other of the distinctions.
In the old south, the title of parties to any legal action was usually followed by
their racial classification. The purpose was to let everyone know who was black ( at the time, described as "colored" in court documents) and who wasn't, as if racial identity should matter in court, which, sadly it often did. I read some of these cases as a young law student and was very disturbed at the divisiveness this practice demonstrated and perpetuated. I really believed back then and until only a few years ago that society had moved beyond identifying people according to their race.
Yet, here we are, with seemingly endless reports classifying everyone according to race. As long as this persists, we will never, ever achieve racial harmony.
Most distressful is the continued use of racial identity in news reports. Sadly, at more than any time during my lifetime, we seem compelled to place each and every one of us into distinct and separate racial and ethnic categories and to constantly remind each other of the distinctions.
In the old south, the title of parties to any legal action was usually followed by
their racial classification. The purpose was to let everyone know who was black ( at the time, described as "colored" in court documents) and who wasn't, as if racial identity should matter in court, which, sadly it often did. I read some of these cases as a young law student and was very disturbed at the divisiveness this practice demonstrated and perpetuated. I really believed back then and until only a few years ago that society had moved beyond identifying people according to their race.
Yet, here we are, with seemingly endless reports classifying everyone according to race. As long as this persists, we will never, ever achieve racial harmony.
10
Were the shooters "good guys with guns?"
I'm confused.
I'm confused.
7
The shooters weren't good or bad. They were merely defending themselves against a much larger #BLM crowd that had physically attacked them three times without cause.
14
Every day 100 blacks shoot other blacks but the Times only cares if a white shoots a black. I no longer care about either.
18
Black Lives Matters is being allowed to act with impunity because politicians are too afraid to stand up to them, police are limited in their actions since the media spins everything against them and whites, well we are now just called racists.
14
Two non-black people showed up to a BLM demonstration sporting masks and firearms. The demonstration was peaceful until the two non-black people showed up and started shooting up the place? What part of this story are you having trouble comprehending?
11
When will the NYT stop putting their bias spin on the stories and finally admit that #BLM is just unorganized rage.
19
The incident that gave rise to Black Lives Matter, more than any other, was the shooting at Ferguson. And what made Ferguson particularly offensive was capsulized in the saying, "Hands Up, Don't Shoot". In fact, the Justice Department determined that Michael Brown never attempted to surrender and that "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" was based on a lie. Red faced admissions to this effect appeared in the Washington Post and on CNN. But the Times and the Justice Department argued that the truth didn't much matter because the Ferguson police had engaged in a pattern of discrimination against blacks having to do with traffic tickets. If you think that discriminatory traffic tickets are as offensive as racist killings, then the current racial polarization makes sense. But if you have any sense, you know that racist ticketing is not worth dying for.
16
Do the names Tamir Rice, John Crawford III, Walter Scott, and Eric Garner mean anything to you? Are these just instances of racist ticketing?
5
Isn't that the point? No one should have to die for or even be subjected to racist ticketing. It should not take a civil disobedience campaign across our nation to end the institutional racism that plagues our local police departments, courts and criminal justice system. If you're asking yourself how we got to this point consider living a lifetime subjected to all forms of "racist ticketing," not only for yourself, but for everyone close to you. You would be in the street as well.
4
There is ample outrage to be shared. I blame the media. A pastors wife pregnant, attacked, raped, and murdered by 2 black men. The next day 5 people are shot by an hispanic man, and a white man. Reading the comments and the outrage is polar opposite depending on race. Pox on both groups.
13
Truth is there is too much murder and violence in our country and it is further incited by the likes of some candidates for the presidency. Shame in those who lie and fear monger to inflame and throw fuel on the fire for votes.
1
In all fairness to everyone involved here, in Minnesota it's not uncommon to wear masks during wintertime, especially at night when the temperature drops.
5
For Minnesota, we are having a relatively warm November. I was out without a coat last night.
5
I was out in a t-shirt yesterday. At night.
How much of this garbage are we going to get from the biased, propagandistic US main media outlets. It's important, also, WHO writes the article.
9
Something like this happens in Europe and it is referred to as an act of terrorism, however in the US it’s is just another shooting. Thanks Donald Trump for taking Sarah Palin's job of inciting the crazy fringe element of this country. So tragic.
13
If you get shot protesting the police doing their jobs, maybe you should reconsider what it is you are protesting.
7
If you get shot exercising your right to protest, perhaps the country has a problem!
16
The problem is many are protesting when the police - under the guise of "doing their jobs" - shoot an unarmed black teenager who was walking away from them 16 times in the back, all done within 6 seconds of leaving the squad car. Yep, being a cop sure is tough!
5
These young people have to go to school and make something of their lives. There's no other way out.
1
Where do you think they LEARNED to do this?
I know. It's terrible. Now these two non-black persons will be sitting in prison being convicted of attempted murder because they tried to kill a number of BLM protestors. Don't you wish sometimes that we can change some decisions we make in life?
2
When random gunmen shoot into a crowd in France, we recognize this as terrorism. Why do we have such a hard time applying that word to ourselves, in our own country?
12
Because the "media" (read: propaganda outlets for monied interests) doesn't look at it that way, especially when one of the so called monied interests they are endeavoring to protect is the NRA.
1
Stacy, hope this helps you understand:
In Paris, the small group of armed men were shooting innocent people.
In Minnesota, the small group of armed men were shooting guilty people.
In Paris, the small group of armed men were shooting innocent people.
In Minnesota, the small group of armed men were shooting guilty people.
5
"In Minnesota, the small group of armed men were shooting guilty people."
Guilty of what? Being black?
Guilty of what? Being black?
7
I've probably said too much on this, even got highlights, no idea why, and sorry about that. Wanted to address one more thing tho.
The term racist is being thrown around a lot here, and on this subject generally, and I don't think it helps matters. We all know racism exists, all over the world and through history, no group is innocent. But accusing individuals of it always closes their minds to whatever else you have to say, and it's not always right.
I got accused by several here of being racist, and this always strikes me as weird, because whilst I'm not very PC, I harbor no racist ideas. My godparents were black, I have black and Hispanic cousins, I've dated black, Hispanic, and Asian women, I've always had friends and work colleagues of nearly all racial designations. Except, oddly, Native Americans, always regretted that absence as I have Native American ancestry. I can't see how I could be intrinsically racist when I've loved all sorts of people all my life.
So I dunno, I think it's valid to abhor and decry racism generally, but when it's turned into an accusation, it doesn't seem to be helpful.
Anyway, in this violent, vicious story, I hope for the best for all those injured by these shooters, I hope justice is done. I hope that either the cops who shot Mr. Clark are found guilty and do jail time, or that they're exonerated and found to be in the right; it could still go either way. And I hope America really works on abandoning racist mentality.
The term racist is being thrown around a lot here, and on this subject generally, and I don't think it helps matters. We all know racism exists, all over the world and through history, no group is innocent. But accusing individuals of it always closes their minds to whatever else you have to say, and it's not always right.
I got accused by several here of being racist, and this always strikes me as weird, because whilst I'm not very PC, I harbor no racist ideas. My godparents were black, I have black and Hispanic cousins, I've dated black, Hispanic, and Asian women, I've always had friends and work colleagues of nearly all racial designations. Except, oddly, Native Americans, always regretted that absence as I have Native American ancestry. I can't see how I could be intrinsically racist when I've loved all sorts of people all my life.
So I dunno, I think it's valid to abhor and decry racism generally, but when it's turned into an accusation, it doesn't seem to be helpful.
Anyway, in this violent, vicious story, I hope for the best for all those injured by these shooters, I hope justice is done. I hope that either the cops who shot Mr. Clark are found guilty and do jail time, or that they're exonerated and found to be in the right; it could still go either way. And I hope America really works on abandoning racist mentality.
6
You don't toe the line and support the part narrative without any question or doubt, you're a racist. It's the new McCarthyism.
6
Why would anyone consider you racist? It doesn't sound like it.
BTW, I think it is possible to support racism and not be racist oneself depending on how racism and actions are defined. If one says they are responsible for their own actions (and inactions) then if they don't discriminate on the basis of race (racism) then ythey are not racist. But they can still support others discriminating (by being quiet for example, for whatever reason, including fear).
BTW, I think it is possible to support racism and not be racist oneself depending on how racism and actions are defined. If one says they are responsible for their own actions (and inactions) then if they don't discriminate on the basis of race (racism) then ythey are not racist. But they can still support others discriminating (by being quiet for example, for whatever reason, including fear).
1
Hmm. A safety committee escorts you to a dark area. Hmm. Gotta wonder what that means. How, mechanically, does a safety committee "escort" you? And why to an unlit area? Hmm. Is there more to this story?
23
It was 10:30 at night. The more-to-this-story is the protesters got shot.
Or why not just say what you mean, hmm?
Or why not just say what you mean, hmm?
6
It seems to me that all this heavy coverage of racially charged incidents is only making things WORSE. Why is every other story in The New York Times or on Public Radio about RACE? Say this as a white person who has lived for many years in a predominately Black project WITHOUT INCIDENT.
It doesn't have to be about race ALL THE TIME.
It doesn't have to be about race ALL THE TIME.
14
You're right, it doesn't have to be about race all the time, but right now, this month, for this year and for the next year, or until the problem is addressed-- it does. This is a major problem for our communities and our nation and turning a deaf ear to it or asking the media to cover something less disturbing to you is cowardly.
Good to know that as a white person you have lived for many years in a predominately Black project WITHOUT INCIDENT. Maybe you could ask your black neighbors if they have lived their lives WITHOUT INCIDENT.
Good to know that as a white person you have lived for many years in a predominately Black project WITHOUT INCIDENT. Maybe you could ask your black neighbors if they have lived their lives WITHOUT INCIDENT.
4
I have no knowledge other than reading the article and most of the comments and I think the most logical explanation is that the masked men were provocateurs. They arrived intent on asserting their constitutional rights in a manner intended to provoke the protesters into attacking them.
Once the protesters started to assault the masked men, they could claim the right to self defense.
I think they will probably get away with it. It looks like the protesters let their emotions get the best of them and they turned into something of a mob.
I hope there is something they can be charged with!
Once the protesters started to assault the masked men, they could claim the right to self defense.
I think they will probably get away with it. It looks like the protesters let their emotions get the best of them and they turned into something of a mob.
I hope there is something they can be charged with!
7
Ah but the BLM people wanted this to happen. They are so loud and obnoxious in their "protests" that they carry into libraries and restaurants they finally get what they want- someone to prove their views were valid and someone to turn them into actual victims.
4
If loud and obnoxious were justification, or even ample provocation, for shooting, why don't white men get gunned down in the streets after "their" teams win a championship? Isn't that also what they want?
1
"They are so loud and obnoxious in their "protests" that they carry into libraries and restaurants "
And lunch counters. Don't forget lunch counters. Next thing you know they'll want to sit at the front of the bus — but we'll show them, won't we C.D.?
And lunch counters. Don't forget lunch counters. Next thing you know they'll want to sit at the front of the bus — but we'll show them, won't we C.D.?
This is just the beginning of the race war that Donald Trump is advocating...
5
And that Obama and Holder have been advocating for 7 years - along with their cronies Sharpton and Jesse Jacckson
5
I wonder if any undercover police were at the demonstration? If past experience is any guide I bet at least one was there.
3
Another bad outcome of liberal gun laws is the very real possibility of race-wars starting and destroying the US, as more and more people become armed. The NRA should be held fully accountable for this!
3
"The NRA should be held fully accountable for this!What." WhatAbout James Madison for championing the Bill of Rights and the States for ratifying them? Why should "the people" have liberties from government? And a what of the liberal freedom speech laws. Didn't they know it would be harder to govern if people could say and write things critical of the government? And how about those inconvenient requirements for jury trials and Search Warrants. I am sure sure some of the guilty go free when you have to give then due process. If we get rid of the right of people to keep and bear arms, why not get rid of the whole Bill of Right? Governance would be so much easier.
3
Gun control affects minorities disproportionately. Rich, white Elmer Fudds will always be able to have their toys. Gun control just takes an effective means of self defense from the poor and minorities; people who live in the highest crime areas and who are most likely to be victims of violent crime. Therefore, Gun control is racist.
1
How can anyone take this movement seriously? They are not wanting equality at all just a reversal of fortunes. Their members are holding up signs saying "death to all cops" and chanting slogans that are anything but peaceful. The statements reported in this article on the shooting at the demonstration can be completely refuted by a quick search on youtube. The "Black Lives Matter" members who were wearing masks themselves attacked and chased after the men who were "acting shady" which ended up incited the shooting because the Black Lives Matter group would not stop the chase.
28
"Escorting away from the rally?" What's that about?
11
You mean like those Trump rally-goers who "escorted" that BLM protester out after assaulting him? Yet you had no problem with that.
4
So, a group of people are "escorting" some guys away on public property. These guys are fully within their rights to take video and EXIST on public property, but they were being forced away. I'd love to see any footage so we can see if these people were kindly "escorting" them away or chasing them out under threat of violence.
16
Well, they certainly must be fine upstanding citizens, as they pulled out their guns and shot those who were escorting them away! They weren't just shooting video -- they came armed and masked.
2
They werent escorting them. Their are a number of different videos floating around. Basically they confronted them started yelling at them, and then they attacked them. A mob literally chased them down the street. Where they then turned and shot. Literally every single one of the BLM statements I have heard is completely bogus. To see grown adults lie like that is sickening.
7
Because any way you slice it whether they were being "escorted" or "coerced" (in some nefarious way, including chasing them away under your fantasied threat of violence) the reasonable response is to pull some guns and start shooting. AMen brother. Amen.
4
As Trump would say, "They probably deserved to be roughed up" or "They probably deserved to be shot" both sides of the opinion are clouding the real issues here folks, societal inequities, social and economic and educational disparities, generations of fractured families, aren't going to be solved by marches or protests, or signs. when #BLM and the counter protestors go home in a week, these issues will still be there, looming large.
1
This group is sincere and is working hard to call out police over reach and criminal activity if it occurs. Police perform a service to the community but a badge alone does not prove innocence. We should all be accountable. No one in the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that BLM activists should not be held accountable. That was never the point. Everyone, even police, should be held accountable.
14
Would be curious as to exactly what was going on when they "Escorted" the men from the Protest. Sounds like a self defense situation to me. Glad they got the shooters so we will hear two sides of story.
13
Here's an eyewitness version for you...
https://youtu.be/w3-XIGJZMEI
https://youtu.be/w3-XIGJZMEI
4
So any evidence of this "chasing" story?
1
Christie and the other Republican super patriots are right, these refugees are dangerous. Shootings in Minneapolis and New Orleans within days. WHAT? They're not refugees? It's just two more, good 'ole U.S. shootings? Well, I feel a lot safer. Gov. Christie keep those orphans at bay.
25
Witnesses have been pretty clearly identifying the shooters as white supremacists (which would make these shootings hate crimes and domestic terrorism). why isn't this information in the article?
15
Because it isn't true? One of the people is hispanic, one of them is supposed to be asian, and they were all unidentified as being anything but "acting shady".
7
How did they know they were white supremacists, did they have a t-shirt on that indicated they were?
3
In fairness how was the "Safety Committee" "escorting" their demonstrating counterparts?
14
The better question is "why were the three men masked and armed?" Sounds a bit Klan-ish to me.
1
In fairness, how is showing up in masks and apparently armed with weapons, to film demonstrators without explaining why, not a cause for worrying about one's safety?
4
Because there's any number of reasons they should have been shot, and the shooters must have been really scared and had only the best of intentions up to the time they felt the need to shoot.
Since it is an organized group, this is not one mentally sick individual.
Since these two have been captured, we will soon find out what they were up to. Right now we don't know. Their positions and motivations may prove surprising.
Since these two have been captured, we will soon find out what they were up to. Right now we don't know. Their positions and motivations may prove surprising.
8
One of the captured has been released and not considered a suspect.
I WOULD be surprised if they were members of the St. Paul gardening club....
1
The arrest of the shooters is very good news. Thank God.
11
Since two suspects have been arrested, it's not as if we will never know transpired at the BLM protest. It seems likely we will soon know the details. If the suspects were taking videos, as claimed, they may have video evidence that they were attacked, punched and chased by the BLM demonstrators, as some BLM demonstrators say. Some of the BLM demonstrators may have videos that show the shooting was unprovoked and occurred when the three men and one women were being peacefully escorted away from the demonstration, as some witnesses claim. Now that arrest have been made, speculation seems pointless.
10
I'm all for equal rights and opportunities afforded to all people, no matter what race, religion, gender or sexual orientation they hail from.
However, by now this movement has shown itself not to be about the pursuit of those things, but about a clamoring for one group of people to have complete immunity from consequence or responsibility. Up to and including the right to violently assault other individuals without any fear of repercussion.
However, by now this movement has shown itself not to be about the pursuit of those things, but about a clamoring for one group of people to have complete immunity from consequence or responsibility. Up to and including the right to violently assault other individuals without any fear of repercussion.
52
Nate, wake up and look again brother.
7
You are not following the facts story. Peaceful protestors were shot by masked gunmen. How is this the protesters fault? Does not wanting to be shot while staging a peaceful protest constitute special treatment?
6
Ahh I see. So you're obviously indirectly referring to all those videos of all of those non-black people being needlessly killed by police.
I'm sorry, what are you for? Just exactly what does equal rights mean to you, Nate?
I'm sorry, what are you for? Just exactly what does equal rights mean to you, Nate?
3
Apparently, according to reports from other media outlets, escorting the counter-demonstrators from the area is a euphemism for a mob chasing an punching someone they disagree with. And apparently both sides have people wearing masks, which might be understandable because it's Minnesota and winter.
33
The temperature last night in Minneapolis was at or a bit above freezing. It was neither windy nor raining. It is not winter in Minnesota. It's still fail and will be for another month.
My guess is that the masks had a non-frigid function.
My guess is that the masks had a non-frigid function.
1
Looks like the shooters were merely defending their lives against an angry and out-of-control #BLM mob.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
Citizens have a right to video record public proceedings in the street. I do it all the time. If I want to go on the street and video record what is happening, that’s my business and my business alone. I am not even morally obligated to explain to the cops nor to #BLM protesters why I am recording their protest.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
Citizens have a right to video record public proceedings in the street. I do it all the time. If I want to go on the street and video record what is happening, that’s my business and my business alone. I am not even morally obligated to explain to the cops nor to #BLM protesters why I am recording their protest.
34
No you have the "right" but the stupid exercise of that right intended as nothing more than provocation should not be supported by your use of a gun when confronted by those you provoke.
9
Did you listen to the video? The white guys taping the protestors had guns. The protestors knew something was wrong and it seems they only acted in order to protect the peace and themselves. Why show up with a gun unless you intend to use it? Had they not had guns no one would be shot and no one would be in custody over the shooting.
4
Mike cuts straight to the issue here:
Whether or not you should be able to practice your rights or use violence against others without consequences depends solely on which side of the debate you're on.
Whether or not you should be able to practice your rights or use violence against others without consequences depends solely on which side of the debate you're on.
1
Could the Black Lies Matter Mobs be bringing White and Hispanic people together? Now all we need is an Asian suspect.
Instead of gaining support the Black Lies Matter protests will only bring pushback from the majority of law-abiding, taxpaying Americans who are getting sick and tired of their inane slogans.
Instead of gaining support the Black Lies Matter protests will only bring pushback from the majority of law-abiding, taxpaying Americans who are getting sick and tired of their inane slogans.
35
Some of the BLM demonstrators did describe one of the suspects as Asian, but this may turn out to be the Hispanic suspect. The KKK and La Raza may be working together, but there no reason yet to suspect the Triads are involved.
3
Why were the protestors "escorting the men to a dark area?"
35
Probably because they hoped to beat them into pulp. Which would have been wonderful.
Let's see what noise erupts when the situation is reversed--when black counter-protesters appear at a Donald Trump really, and when they're chased, they start shooting. Somehow I doubt that all these noble First Amendment commenters will argue for the Second Amendment rights of the black shooters. As we know, Self Defense & Stand Your Ground applies only to White Christian thugs.
Let's see what noise erupts when the situation is reversed--when black counter-protesters appear at a Donald Trump really, and when they're chased, they start shooting. Somehow I doubt that all these noble First Amendment commenters will argue for the Second Amendment rights of the black shooters. As we know, Self Defense & Stand Your Ground applies only to White Christian thugs.
6
Gee, yeah, why?
They weren't 'escorting' any of the three and it was 10:30 at night, everywhere is dark.
Why are there just so many guns???
20
Because people in this country still have the right to defend themselves against mobs who are pursuing and assaulting them.
7
Oh I dunno, maybe because America produces more than any other country, maybe because they're a product that sells itself, maybe because they're effective. Probably because humans, for all history, have put their largest efforts into killing eachother.
"In response, the group put together a safety committee to watch for potential agitators and escort them away as a preventive measure." The NYT just accepted that without a follow up? In what other instance would this be remotely acceptable for someone "acting shady" in a public space? Now there is a video showing BLM activists(faces covered) saying that the men were punched a few times and chased by the "safety committee" before the shooting. Maybe that had something to do with it?
29
Usually the whites are wary of the blacks "acting shady" isn't that the very rationale for Driving while black, stop and frisk, escorting out of stores etc....? They just acting "shady"
6
"the group put together a safety committee to watch for potential agitators and escort them away as a preventive measure." - gee - wouldn't that be the job of the police; or is the Times now in favor of vigilante groups.
3
Protesters themselves who were eyewitnesses to the scene have said that the men were being chased down and physically assaulted, and that after no less than three attempts to flee and disengage the protesters one of them drew a gun and fired. One of the men in custody is Hispanic, and one of the men was holding a Black Lives Matter sign. Yet the media is reporting that three white supremacists planned to lure and ambush protesters, whom they are portraying as completely innocent and peaceful. One of the most transparent examples of media bias and fear-mongering in recent memory.
42
Well, who ya gonna believe? Personally I don't accept anything anybody says at this stage, not the media and certainly not some commenter who has all the facts but doesn't cite a single source.
4
Steve, here's the eyewitness report I was referring to, filmed on the scene directly after the incident and in the words of people directly involved. https://youtu.be/w3-XIGJZMEI
2
The media said it because one of the participants said it. http://www.startribune.com/several-people-were-shot-near-black-lives-mat...
After watching the protestors video of what happened it is obvious the situation is a lot more gray than black or white. A lot of misplaced emotions running wild. No reports on the condition of the girlfriend the paramedics were trying to attend to, only the shrill accusations of those with a manufactured agenda that the NY Times promotes.
32
yeah. let's hear about the girlfriend. the heck with those people who were shot! i want to hear about the girlfriend.
glad your priorities are straight. and, by the way, you are nowhere near beyond karma. read up a little, my friend. your innuendo about the protestors will get you, you know. and you won't be able to blame "the shrill accusations of those with a manufactured agenda." no no no.
so, if you think you are beyond karma, do a little reading about the monk who was turned into a fox for 500 years because he thought there was such a thing as someone not subject to the laws of cause and effect ie 'beyond karma.' Or, just keep going as you are. You'll find out. Meantime, watch your nasty inclinations. They bite in only one direction.
glad your priorities are straight. and, by the way, you are nowhere near beyond karma. read up a little, my friend. your innuendo about the protestors will get you, you know. and you won't be able to blame "the shrill accusations of those with a manufactured agenda." no no no.
so, if you think you are beyond karma, do a little reading about the monk who was turned into a fox for 500 years because he thought there was such a thing as someone not subject to the laws of cause and effect ie 'beyond karma.' Or, just keep going as you are. You'll find out. Meantime, watch your nasty inclinations. They bite in only one direction.
4
What is with this weird, passive syntax, "The victims’ injuries were not considered life-threatening." Who considers the injuries? And why is this weird sentence the subhead on the main page?
If the hospital has issued a statement, why not say that? If the hospital did not issue a statement, then again: who said that? Some police officer? Some EMT? If that person's opinion is worthy of "consideration," why isn't he cited?
If the hospital has issued a statement, why not say that? If the hospital did not issue a statement, then again: who said that? Some police officer? Some EMT? If that person's opinion is worthy of "consideration," why isn't he cited?
9
It is against the law to conceal your face in MICHIGAN
750.396 Wearing Mask or face covering device.
Sec. 396. A person who intentionally conceals his or her identity by wearing a mask or other device covering his or her face for the purpose of facilitating the commission of a crime is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.
History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- CL 1948, 750.396 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 672, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003
Former Law: See sections 1 and 2 of Act 276 of 1923, being CL 1929, §§ 16609 and 16610.
750.396 Wearing Mask or face covering device.
Sec. 396. A person who intentionally conceals his or her identity by wearing a mask or other device covering his or her face for the purpose of facilitating the commission of a crime is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 93 days or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.
History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- CL 1948, 750.396 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 672, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003
Former Law: See sections 1 and 2 of Act 276 of 1923, being CL 1929, §§ 16609 and 16610.
5
I think that they are Minnesota, not Michigan although they might have similar law.
Ah, please explain the "crime" that was being facilitated by covering their faces. Also, I assume that you would object if BLM or other protesters covered their faces?
It's not against the law in Minnesota to conceal your face. People wear masks all winter long in Minnesota to keep their faces warm and that's not illegal. It's illegal only to wear a make only for "purposes of facilitating the commission of a crime." So what is the crime that you are positing the mask-wearers were facilitating? Videotaping the BLM protestors? Is that a crime? Inquiring minds want to know.
1
Police! Police! Get those people while we protest your existence!
15
Why such a racist headline?" 2 Arrested in Shooting of 5 Black Protesters"
When I see news a of a black person shooting a white person, it's just a shooting. I'm sick and tired of these racist/bias headlines from NYT.
When I see news a of a black person shooting a white person, it's just a shooting. I'm sick and tired of these racist/bias headlines from NYT.
36
You have got to be kidding.
18
ebc, I see similar racist headlines as will.
1
are you just as sick and tired of the racism? in you? in those around you? come on. what is your real life like? do you speak up against the racism where you live, work, love, walk, play? or just against the media racism? if that latter, shame on you.
1
They were making a video. Just like Operation Rescue was making a PP video. Just like they made a ACORN video. Can we conclude that the right actually does not prize freedom as they claim? Should we be concerned that any where people gather that do not follow right wing dogma we will be filmed, heavily edited and presented to public as un-American or a danger to Christian Values?
11
So...you are saying that they had no right to be there? Or that they had no right to be there and to videotape the event? I'm unclear how this relates to "right wing dogma"... please explicate.
2
We live in a sick society. Our hatreds are being spewed from the barrels of guns. There's no cure. Keep your head down. Perhaps you'll live long enough to see some of this hate dissolve. That's about all the optimism I can muster at the moment.
5
And the idea that guns are OK? Yes, a sick society, spurred on by a sick culture of guns and violence (TV, films, video games). It's all over the place, all the time.
1
the hatred is being spewed by the leading GOP candidate, and the ignorant who follow him just do the shooting.
2
I wonder if we are asking the right questions here at all. Why were these 3 men there at all? Their presence there was reactionary to what has unfolded in Minnesota in regards to race and police brutality: black lives matter protests. To show up with masks, with guns, waiting on the side of the protestors, and then shoot into a crowd...now are we just playing stupid?
This is in my neck of the woods and I have to say friends and family have all known that there was a presence of armed men in masks for at least a week showing up and driving around the 4th precinct. And the police, instead of taking the communities' concerns about these men seriously, maced and arrested peaceful protestors.
It again seems that our concerns are "silly" or "irrational." It seems that our use of words like "white supremacists" or "racists" are too strong.
Yesterday 5 black people were shot for simply being at a protest for racial justice. You tell me if our views or language is too strong.
This is in my neck of the woods and I have to say friends and family have all known that there was a presence of armed men in masks for at least a week showing up and driving around the 4th precinct. And the police, instead of taking the communities' concerns about these men seriously, maced and arrested peaceful protestors.
It again seems that our concerns are "silly" or "irrational." It seems that our use of words like "white supremacists" or "racists" are too strong.
Yesterday 5 black people were shot for simply being at a protest for racial justice. You tell me if our views or language is too strong.
181
Do you think American citizens need to "explain" why they are present in a public space? Who was at fault for the shooting?
3
According to witnesses, only one of the four suspects wore a mask, and this may have been a ski mask because of the cold. (Many of the BLM protestors were wearing garments to partially cover their faces because of the cold. It appears their purpose was to take photos and videos. They may have intend to use these in propaganda purposes, but that's legal. There's not evidence they shot into the crowd. Two BLM protestors are on video telling a reporter that demonstrators attacked and punched the suspects and then chased them down a street. It appears they may have fired shots at the people chasing them.
3
Really?? The men who came armed to the event and then shot five people are clearly at fault for the shooting.
1
If these people were obviously acting peculiar and event stalker-ish, why weren't the police dealing with them? I really would like an answer to that one now.
17
The answer is pretty simple. Because they weren't breaking any laws.
3
Dear Nate,
That remains to be seen. If they were wearing bulletproof vests, as claimed, that right there is against the law. If they didn't have concealed carry licenses, they were carrying guns against the law, likewise if those were illegally owned guns.
That remains to be seen. If they were wearing bulletproof vests, as claimed, that right there is against the law. If they didn't have concealed carry licenses, they were carrying guns against the law, likewise if those were illegally owned guns.
And we all know police are never allowed to ask questions or detain anyone suspicious...oh wait, that is what they do!? Weird.
How would many NYT readers feel if they were at a BBQ or a town hall Tea Party meeting and you saw three MASKED men in bullet proof vests hanging out near by?
So many people blaming the protesters for being shot at...I'm sure the people in Paris were also responsible for their deaths too, right? I'm starting to feel that the fanatics of the right are no better than ISIS.
So many people blaming the protesters for being shot at...I'm sure the people in Paris were also responsible for their deaths too, right? I'm starting to feel that the fanatics of the right are no better than ISIS.
23
Ah, Republicans are not your fellow countrymen, but "fanatics" who are the equivalent of ISIS terrorists! Does it not disturb you at all to be slandering a huge number of other Americans because you disagree with them on policy matters? Would you like to be treated in this way? Frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself. Are you able to understand why?
2
protestors were masked as well.
1
Jeff, thank you for proving my point.
I saw "fanatics of the far right" and you immediately say I'm including all Republicans. Got news for you pal, I'M A REPUBLICAN.
You also need a to learn your vocabulary words. What was said comes no where near slander. It's not a "disagreement on policy matters" anymore than the shootings in Paris are a "disagreement on religion."
I saw "fanatics of the far right" and you immediately say I'm including all Republicans. Got news for you pal, I'M A REPUBLICAN.
You also need a to learn your vocabulary words. What was said comes no where near slander. It's not a "disagreement on policy matters" anymore than the shootings in Paris are a "disagreement on religion."
2
There is so much misguided outrage over Clark's shooting, with all the facts not yet in, and rumors of video but no definitive answers. What is lost in all the screaming and violence is any sort of feminist sentiment regarding the fact that Clark assaulted his girlfriend and was in the process of interfering with ambulance personnel who were attempting to help her, resulting in a call to the police. I see the press trying to pass him off as a cherubic victim who was attacked by police, when he is anything but. It is very hard to extract any information from the press or anybody else about Mr. Clark's assault on the woman. That may be a separate issue, but the apparent press negligence in trying to bury his criminal history and the activities leading to his death is very disturbing in terms of dismissing the importance of what Clark did to this woman.
24
Clark assaulted his girlfriend, interfered with paramedics and has previous convictions for robbery and assault. I know all this because I read it in the news. That being the case, if the press it trying to bury Clark's criminal history they are failing at that task.
I don't see anyone trying to pass of Clark as 'cherubic'. He is far from a sympathetic figure. That said, police respond to domestic violence calls every day and usually no one ends up dead, not even the perpetrators. Maybe an independent investigation will reveal the police did nothing wrong. In the meantime I think it's worth asking what lead to a police officer shooting an unarmed man in the head at close range.
I don't see anyone trying to pass of Clark as 'cherubic'. He is far from a sympathetic figure. That said, police respond to domestic violence calls every day and usually no one ends up dead, not even the perpetrators. Maybe an independent investigation will reveal the police did nothing wrong. In the meantime I think it's worth asking what lead to a police officer shooting an unarmed man in the head at close range.
2
Kudos to whomever came up with the euphemism that the demonstrators were "escorting" the suspect men away from the site of the rally to a dark area. Thankfully, the protesters knew that the men in question had no right to be "filming" them in a public place or refusing to say why they were in said public place.
Sadly, the suspect men did not seem to appreciate the escort.
Sadly, the suspect men did not seem to appreciate the escort.
19
Let's be clear about this folks. Jamar Clark was a woman-beating, paramedic-assaulting thug whose behavior required police intervention. Just like in the Ferguson incident, the deceased's own criminal and violent actions brought about his own death. Nothing to get upset about here.
Nonetheless, Minneapolis's mayor Betsy Hodges immediately prostrates herself to BLM mythology and demands that the US Justice Department launch a civil rights investigation. So emboldened by their success, the BLM folks press on and occupy I-94 for about six hours grinding city traffic to a halt. Since then they've been camped out in public space acting like they own it and making a nuisance of themselves.
Most people here are sick of the BLM folks acting liked spoiled babies who run roughshod over the city complaining about imaginary injustices. The shooters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but when our public officials and agencies not only fail to act, but grovel before bogus grievance shouting malcontents, people are going to take things into their own hands.
Nonetheless, Minneapolis's mayor Betsy Hodges immediately prostrates herself to BLM mythology and demands that the US Justice Department launch a civil rights investigation. So emboldened by their success, the BLM folks press on and occupy I-94 for about six hours grinding city traffic to a halt. Since then they've been camped out in public space acting like they own it and making a nuisance of themselves.
Most people here are sick of the BLM folks acting liked spoiled babies who run roughshod over the city complaining about imaginary injustices. The shooters should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but when our public officials and agencies not only fail to act, but grovel before bogus grievance shouting malcontents, people are going to take things into their own hands.
32
Jamar Clark was no saint. The officers involved are likely no saints either. We have access to humiliating and dehumanizing information and photos of people like Jamar Clark. Criminals, prostitutes, sex offenders, and etc, yet we have no database or information sharing of who is policing our neighborhoods. Is it not my right to know who law enforcement is? Or their track record? Where is the integrity here? If I am booked and put in jail, EVERYONE has access to my information and criminal history. But police officers have no criminal history? Oh yes, it's not "criminal history" if it happens while their on the job and my tax dollars pay for their settlement.
6
When I was young in the 60's, I made Michael Brown's petty crimes look angelic. I'm white and female. Whenever I was stopped by cops, I was returned to my parents with a wink and a nod, not bullets.
6
This sounds a lot like the rhetoric spoken during the sit-ins in the South in the early 60s. This kind of activiity just makes many white people more nervous. Just wait until they start open-carry during their legal protests--then will you take them more seriously?
1
There's a video on YouTube of the lead in to the shooting & of witnesses accounts after the shooting. Two masked black men retell how the men were just videotaping with masks on when protestors demanded they take their masks off. They tell them no at which point someone punches the men, a crowd encircles them and more punches are thrown. Then one pulls out a gun and starts shooting.
The media is making it seem a if someone just started shooting. These guys will get off on self-defense.
The media is making it seem a if someone just started shooting. These guys will get off on self-defense.
33
Amazing how many racist readers of NY Times there must be, given the number of racist comments posted here. Perhaps I am just being naive, or overly idealistic, but I really don't expect such ugly comments in the Times making so many pointed and racist remarks about black people.
13
You make the mistake of assuming these commenters are genuine Times readers. They probably spend most of their time watching FOX news but turn out to troll NYT comment threads when there is a good target for racial vitriol. What surprises me is that these comments are moderated and these things still get published.
3
We should expect more of this behavior as we see Presidential Candidates encouraging violent behavior at political rallies, i.e. Trump, who has said several times since violence erupted at one of his campaign stops that he supports the actions of the violent aggressors. When we begin to view peaceful protest as an actionable excuse for the use of violence it is no wonder that our police departments think they should be allowed to harm us with impunity.
9
And don't forget the BLM protesters who assaulted Berniece Sanders on stage in Seattle. I'm no sure who, exactly, is inciting violence.
2
I noticed one of the shooters was a Hispanic. Was the shooter a "white Hispanic" as the Times denoted George Zimmerman?
7
Hmmm. Is "escorting away" a new euphemism for instigating an attack on innocent counter-protesters, who were apparently provocative simply by filming and hiding their faces? Hiding their faces exactly how the BLM protesters were also doing? I keep looking for a reason to feel solidarity with the BLM movement, even after they essentially assaulted a presidential candidate, Bernie Sanders, on stage in Seattle. But they keep showing me that they are thugs with a profound sense of entitlement and they choose their causes based on skin color alone, not on justice. I'm not buying what they're selling.
26
The Trump thugs really DID, not essentially, assault a bystander. Several, in fact. I'm not buying rationalizing the tact of assault those who have some social stature and sense of entitlement.
3
So where does your disagreement come in exactly here? You disagree with their conduct or disagree that black lives matter? You seem to be a little hazy on that. Food for thought at the next Klan meeting.
2
And why is this not called terrorism by the media?
4
Well Dave, all violence is not terrorism. If someone shoots her husband when she catches him cheating, that isn't terrorism. If people get into a bar fight, that too isn't terrorism. To be real terrorism it has to be a group with political aims in mind, who mean to terrorize the civilian population until their demands are met.
9
So Dan you're saying this is terrorism. Good to know.
3
So when heavily armed white protesters engage in a standoff with the Federal Government enforcing its grazing laws -- it's the American people standing up for themselves and heroic.
When it is black protesters chasing off heavily armed and masked gunman -- it's the protesters committing unpatriotic acts and they need to be arrested!
Let's get one thing straight, you blame protesters for defending themselves in this situation it is one thing and one thing only -- racism.
When it is black protesters chasing off heavily armed and masked gunman -- it's the protesters committing unpatriotic acts and they need to be arrested!
Let's get one thing straight, you blame protesters for defending themselves in this situation it is one thing and one thing only -- racism.
14
Please define heavily armed?
Why did someone who touched or shoved one of them say he 'felt' like he had a bullet proof vest on? I doubt I would know what a bullet proof vest felt like even if he hugged me.
Very inflammatory, as are a lot of the comments here.
Now we know one of the people arrested was Hispanic. Can you be Hispanic and be a white supremicist? I'm just asking.
Why did someone who touched or shoved one of them say he 'felt' like he had a bullet proof vest on? I doubt I would know what a bullet proof vest felt like even if he hugged me.
Very inflammatory, as are a lot of the comments here.
Now we know one of the people arrested was Hispanic. Can you be Hispanic and be a white supremicist? I'm just asking.
10
George Zimmerman was an identified supremacist who was born hispanic. Italian people weren't considered white 50 years ago but now they clamor together with blue collar Irish about how minorities destroy white communities. So yes, you can be hispanic and a white supremacist.
48
So you're cool with one group of citizens "chasing" another group of citizens off of a public area in which they have just as much right to be? Why is that? And, if you do think that is okay, then I assume that you would not have complained if a larger group of citizens had "chased" away all of the BLM protesters?
6
This is some bad reporting on the NY Times part. Witnesses at the scene said it was self defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3c6cK9p_w
Escorting them away? Really? 'Acting suspicious?' These are public streets. They had every right to be there and film, and every right to hide their identity.
Escorting them away? Really? 'Acting suspicious?' These are public streets. They had every right to be there and film, and every right to hide their identity.
23
What right did the BLM protesters have to physically remove other people from the public protest site?
30
When I read that Minneapolis protesters escorted away "men who had been behaving suspiciously," I recalled that Missouri University protesters earlier this month told credentialed journalists to leave the public land where the protesters were camped out.
If these masked gunmen were really suspicious, let the cops handle them next time.
If these masked gunmen were really suspicious, let the cops handle them next time.
20
I guess like George Zimmerman did, huh?
2
You are victim blaming. You suggestion is actually a decision ("let the police handle it") that lacks understanding and empathy and confuses the proper steps and responsibilities. You ignore that the community gathered in grief and loss, wracked with sorrow, riddled with anger and fear (you would call them "protesters") have gathered to mourn the loss of a youth killed by police and their calls for transparency and openness have gone unheeded.
In contradiction to your point, the proper protocol for handling large gatherings of any size, from football games to protests, is that police are not "called." They are at the gathering beforehand and during, having developed a plan for safety and security beforehand, together with the community--which includes traffic control.
If that was absent--apparently it was--that's the fault of the police! It is their professional duty and community obligation to protect the community they serve. That goes beyond answering calls. It involves meetings, plans, staffing, and threat assessment. Was that done? Was it in place? Should traffic have been rerouted? Streets barricade. The mourners should have kept safe from threats. Then nobody would have to be called! If the police were during their jobs, they would have already been in place! In time and position to stop the shooting!
In contradiction to your point, the proper protocol for handling large gatherings of any size, from football games to protests, is that police are not "called." They are at the gathering beforehand and during, having developed a plan for safety and security beforehand, together with the community--which includes traffic control.
If that was absent--apparently it was--that's the fault of the police! It is their professional duty and community obligation to protect the community they serve. That goes beyond answering calls. It involves meetings, plans, staffing, and threat assessment. Was that done? Was it in place? Should traffic have been rerouted? Streets barricade. The mourners should have kept safe from threats. Then nobody would have to be called! If the police were during their jobs, they would have already been in place! In time and position to stop the shooting!
11
Nice fairy tale!
No protesters, or mourners, have the right to block traffic. Did the BLM protesters file a request with the City that included their intended "mourning" route? If not, and we know they didn't, this falls squarely on the "mourners", no one else.
No protesters, or mourners, have the right to block traffic. Did the BLM protesters file a request with the City that included their intended "mourning" route? If not, and we know they didn't, this falls squarely on the "mourners", no one else.
1
Donald's minions are not very good at listening to details. He said "rough up". not "shoot". Why it's not even time to round them up, much less shoot them.
6
What keeps being ignored here is Mr. Clark's girl friend and why paramedics where called in the beginning of this mess. She was beaten bloody and broke her ankle during his rage against this innocent black woman.
33
Innocent, unarmed black woman.
3
Someone wrote here: "The gunmen were not white supremacists, as they weren't all white. Neo-nazi types are well known for only associating with white people. Thus they probably aren't part of any larger group, and so this isn't technically terrorism." This line of reasoning is faulty. Dictionary meaning of white supremacist: "a person who believes that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other races" (Merriam-Webster). You can dispute the dictionary editors, but for the sake of argument, let's assume this is correct or generally agreed upon. We need some ground upon which to agree; otherwise, we descend into nihilism. Which many no doubt already have descended. In this generally agreed definition, the subject of the sentence is noted as "a person," not "white person" or "non-pigmented person." Any person (any color, religion, gender) can believe "that the white race is inherently superior to other races and that white people should have control over people of other races." Evidence for this is a historical fact. Examples: African American "informers" who helped slave catchers maintain white supremacy or the Aztec female betrayer Dona Maria who helped maintain the white supremacy of Spanish conquistadors. There are other examples. The post goes on the say that this incident isn't terrorism because the perpetrators weren't part of a larger group. Another rationalizer hoping to occlude domestic terror.
2
Putting aside the tragic circumstances, when will this country wake up and realize that there is a legitimate and real threat of domestic terrorism. To hear the absurd statements being made by those running for President on the Republican ticket, you have to worship Islam to be a terrorist or be at least born abroad. This is no different from what is done in Syria or other nations. People feel that they can frighten away those who believe in freedom of expression. It is a sad day, but one we have to come to terms with in this country.
16
CORRECTI0N:
"Unarmed black man, unarmed black man..." Enough, already!
Why must it be assumed that what's worth reporting in these instances is above all, that the that the suspect was "unarmed" (not missing his arms, let alone a disarming personality) and "black"? -- and only incidentally that he'd allegedly been beating his girlfriend and had interfered with paramedics who'd come to her aid?
How life's lived matters, not the color of its skin. Reporting should reflect that.
"Unarmed black man, unarmed black man..." Enough, already!
Why must it be assumed that what's worth reporting in these instances is above all, that the that the suspect was "unarmed" (not missing his arms, let alone a disarming personality) and "black"? -- and only incidentally that he'd allegedly been beating his girlfriend and had interfered with paramedics who'd come to her aid?
How life's lived matters, not the color of its skin. Reporting should reflect that.
34
What's the matter with people? Racial hatred is so stupid. Our gene's are over 99% the same. Why do we pay attention to the tiny differences among us? Let's cool the racial tensions - on all sides.
24
The white supremacists posting here pull the trigger just as surely at the terrorists who committed this act.
14
And... um... the fact that one of the guys was hispanic... and they're looking for a potentially asian woman...?
3
Dear Matt,
That's just inflammatory. Nobody here is espousing the demented white supremacy movement. The thugs who shot people were not terrorists. And apparently they weren't all white, so it isn't a white supremacist attack to begin with.
That's just inflammatory. Nobody here is espousing the demented white supremacy movement. The thugs who shot people were not terrorists. And apparently they weren't all white, so it isn't a white supremacist attack to begin with.
4
How on earth do you know what happened? Were you there? Have you heard of the term "prejudice"? Do you consider it a compliment?
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
2
I am tied of the endless race baiting from the NYT. They don't even have all the facts and yet are already pushing an agenda.
60
dont you feel dirty just coming here ?
3
And if the tables were turned, and the protesters were white, and the shooters black, you would be making the same argument.
Laughable.
Laughable.
8
And your screed is back up by - Fox News?
2
One of the shooters might be white? Where are the slew of comments calling on the "white community" to police its own?
28
I have no problem with whites shooting a mob who attacked then chased them which is what appeared to be what happened.
9
I think it should be pretty clear to all that there are problems with this story coming out piecemeal, and the main one is everyone leaping to conclusions.
The gunmen were not white supremacists, as they weren't all white. Neo-nazi types are well known for only associating with white people. Thus they probably aren't part of any larger group, and so this isn't technically terrorism.
It's still unclear why they fired on protestors; I assumed they were racist murdering thugs, but now it's in doubt. Were the protestors unarmed? They were certainly attacking these three shooters.
Police say the man they shot was going for one of their guns and attacking paramedics. Some witnesses say the man was in handcuffs. Neither claim can be taken as fact.
So unfortunately I think comments opened up a little too early on this one, like in Ferguson where Mr. Brown attacked a cop in a deranged, homicidal manner and was justly shot for it. It didn't look like that the day of the event, but all the physical evidence proved it, beyond a doubt to all except those to whom facts mean nothing, like Trump.
Right now I believe everyone should step back and let the justice system work. Trials take a year or five to get everything nailed down, postulating things in this comment section is not going to solve anything.
As for the coming riots, burning down delis and looting hardware stores and such, I'll go ahead and condemn them in advance.
The gunmen were not white supremacists, as they weren't all white. Neo-nazi types are well known for only associating with white people. Thus they probably aren't part of any larger group, and so this isn't technically terrorism.
It's still unclear why they fired on protestors; I assumed they were racist murdering thugs, but now it's in doubt. Were the protestors unarmed? They were certainly attacking these three shooters.
Police say the man they shot was going for one of their guns and attacking paramedics. Some witnesses say the man was in handcuffs. Neither claim can be taken as fact.
So unfortunately I think comments opened up a little too early on this one, like in Ferguson where Mr. Brown attacked a cop in a deranged, homicidal manner and was justly shot for it. It didn't look like that the day of the event, but all the physical evidence proved it, beyond a doubt to all except those to whom facts mean nothing, like Trump.
Right now I believe everyone should step back and let the justice system work. Trials take a year or five to get everything nailed down, postulating things in this comment section is not going to solve anything.
As for the coming riots, burning down delis and looting hardware stores and such, I'll go ahead and condemn them in advance.
72
Of course you have no opinion. Blaming the victims is a typical racist ploy.
4
Wow Dan, that is some comment....Condemning in advance, if you are you so certain as to how this will play out, maybe you should take a step back and explore your own possibly racist attitudes, ask yourself why you are so certain?
5
They don't have to be part of a large organized group for this to be an act of terrorism. To the contrary, the fact that these people showed up armed and in body armor to an otherwise peaceful protest is pretty good evidence that they were there to instill terror, or at the very least, to incite violence.
6
Wow...well armed provocateurs among the protesters, who are willing to open fire rather than be caught in the act. Makes me wonder who sent them....
7
Actually eyewitnesses among the protesters themselves have stated that the men were being chased and physically assaulted by a large group of people, and that they tried to flee several times before they resorted to violence themselves.
7
In White Supremacist Racist America ,Black people simply deserve to die. Being alive is not to be tolerated any longer. Dear Black people. Good Luck.
4
This coming from some Nazi in Germany lol
6
"Unarmed black man, unarmed black man..." Enough, already!
Why must it be assumed that what's worth reporting in these instances is that the suspect was "unarmed" (not missing his arms, let alone a disarming personality), or that, above all, he'd allegedly been beating his girlfriend and had interfered with paramedics who'd come to her aid -- and above all, of course, that the suspect was black?
How life's lived matters, not the color of its skin.
Why must it be assumed that what's worth reporting in these instances is that the suspect was "unarmed" (not missing his arms, let alone a disarming personality), or that, above all, he'd allegedly been beating his girlfriend and had interfered with paramedics who'd come to her aid -- and above all, of course, that the suspect was black?
How life's lived matters, not the color of its skin.
12
two #BLM eyewitnesses were interviewed right after the shootings and stated that the shooters were taking video of the crowd, then were chased and attacked "punched" twice and the third time the crowd went after them, one of them started shooting. Video link below.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c79_1448379294#bVuceis2lTkRkq88.99
26
Once again we see the double standard with race: the fact that the victims are black was mentioned in the headline and the fact the perps were white and Hispanic was mentioned in the first sentence. In black on non-black violence race is almost never mentioned in the entire article or it is vaguely referenced far down in the story. Ditto for Islamic terrorism. The media does as much as possible to avoid mentioning Islam when reporting on Islamic terrorist attacks. But any white on black violence and they shriek this information and make it very prominent. I am sick to death of this bias which I see from the smallest local news source to the NYT, CNN, and MNSBC. Be consistent.
42
oh...so that's why the attacks in paris were reported as being perpetrated by irish catholics, jews and transexuals? i wondered why they never mentioned Islamic terrorists..probably because all media in america is owned or operated by muslims...yeah, that's it.
7
Just a question. I have no animus against any racial or ethnic minority. What percentage of handgun shootings had the trigger pulled by a black person vs. any other person, regardless of who the target was? I hear a lot about "black on black" violence. Why are white people afraid of young black males? Do the numbers support their fears? Does this feed Police reactions?
3
Sadly I feel that there will be more malcontents showing up at these protests with intentions of shooting protesters. The media incites these acts by alluding to the perps as white supremists. The press needs to tone down the racial aspects of their reporting for the good of all of us.
11
Particularly as they weren't white supremacists.
6
I agree that it is a mistake to assume that these three men are white supremacists. That narrative is fueled by the disclosure of genuine supremacists on social media talking about going to the protests. I am not aware of any evidence that these men were among the media commenters.
I admit I won't be surprised to learn that these men are racists, if not white supremacists, but I would like to read evidence of that. What is happening - or has happened - is that 'real' media now sees itself in competition with the rumor mill of social media. They should be better than that, of course.
I admit I won't be surprised to learn that these men are racists, if not white supremacists, but I would like to read evidence of that. What is happening - or has happened - is that 'real' media now sees itself in competition with the rumor mill of social media. They should be better than that, of course.
2
The dangerous rhetoric which is coming out the Republican party can incite unstable individuals.
The Republican primaries have focused on “building walls” to keep out foreigners, as well as refusing refugees fleeing terrorists.
Why hasn’t the media exposed Donald Trump’s “let make American great again” slogan which is now used by racists and hate groups.
Here http://www.dailystormer.com/new-yorker-says-everyone-who-supports-trump-...
The Republican primaries have focused on “building walls” to keep out foreigners, as well as refusing refugees fleeing terrorists.
Why hasn’t the media exposed Donald Trump’s “let make American great again” slogan which is now used by racists and hate groups.
Here http://www.dailystormer.com/new-yorker-says-everyone-who-supports-trump-...
18
I agree with the right of the blm folks to assemble on public ground to protest, and they've been given exceptional latitude to do so, in attempt to keep things peaceful.
The local media including the papers have let the blm mouthpiece give over the top declarations of how thrilled they are with solidarity, and demand one thing after another, and from someone not directly connected with the situation but close enough to see a lot more than reported here, it would be sensible for them to back off a bit, rather than continue to rant as they are.
The third night of the occupation showed some news station camera video of a policeman on an observation point behind a wall with a protester launching spit several times at the officer, who was too far away to be reached. This is is NOT helping their cause. Fortunately restraint was shown, as it had been prior, but the organizers, lacking the wisdom and experience of NAACP or MLK, continue to rant and agitate.
As one other observer said, they eventually will get the riot they are working for, if they don't show true co-operation to a common peaceful resolution.
The local media including the papers have let the blm mouthpiece give over the top declarations of how thrilled they are with solidarity, and demand one thing after another, and from someone not directly connected with the situation but close enough to see a lot more than reported here, it would be sensible for them to back off a bit, rather than continue to rant as they are.
The third night of the occupation showed some news station camera video of a policeman on an observation point behind a wall with a protester launching spit several times at the officer, who was too far away to be reached. This is is NOT helping their cause. Fortunately restraint was shown, as it had been prior, but the organizers, lacking the wisdom and experience of NAACP or MLK, continue to rant and agitate.
As one other observer said, they eventually will get the riot they are working for, if they don't show true co-operation to a common peaceful resolution.
9
I wonder what the headline would have been if these had been two Muslim men who had fired into a crowd near a popular posh area of Minneapolis? I wonder what it would have been called if it had happened in a Jewish neighborhood?
These men are trying to sow fear among those who would protest police brutality. Sowing fear so people will not go out and march will not demand justice or a least a little sunshine on the dark corners of our city's police departments. This is terrorism whether the NY Times feels fit to print it or not.
Are the police not taking precautions against this sort of thing happening because the Black Lives Matter rallies are so pointedly against the epidemic of police brutality? I can't help but think there is a bit of well if you think we're horrible why should we help you thinking on the part of the police happening here.
These men are trying to sow fear among those who would protest police brutality. Sowing fear so people will not go out and march will not demand justice or a least a little sunshine on the dark corners of our city's police departments. This is terrorism whether the NY Times feels fit to print it or not.
Are the police not taking precautions against this sort of thing happening because the Black Lives Matter rallies are so pointedly against the epidemic of police brutality? I can't help but think there is a bit of well if you think we're horrible why should we help you thinking on the part of the police happening here.
15
If these Muslims were in a public space and had been attacked unprovoked by a mob and were being chased by them at the time they had started shooting, they would be seen as the victim. The mob would be seen as the perps and slurred as Islamaphobic. BLM protesters were the mob in this instance. You compared it to two scenarios that aren't even similar. This creation of a false narrative is tiresome and epidemic.
4
Muslims standing around ANYWHERE masked, armed, and decked in kevlar would be arrested as suspicious immediately. They would never have the opportunity to stand around a heated protest of white Christians "monitoring" the situation. Armed blacks are shot by police on sight.
3
It's good these idiots were arrested.Lets not forget the blacks who shot at police in Ferguson and the blacks who stoned Baltimore police.How many of them have been arrested and prosecuted?Frankly,I'm not at all surprised these ignorant whites have started shooting at blacks.Obama,Holder and crew have set race relations back 50 years.Shall we discuss Professor Gates,Trayvon,Ferguson,Baltimore,Mizzou,Sharpton as an Obama advisor,etc.Don't be surprised if the KKK starts its nonsense in the near future.
9
How don't you?
There are videos floating around that BLM protestors attacked these "interlopers" for no reason, the interlopers fled, they were chased, attacked again, and finally cornered, which is when the interlopers opened fire.
32
Are these videos "floating around" with the videos of "thousands and thousands" of Muslims dancing in New Jersey as the towers came down?
5
But why were armed men coming to "observe" the BLM protest?
6
Well then, if you're going to show up armed, with a bullet proof vest, and a mask over your face to a protest, you can pretty much expect someone might just ask who you are and what you're doing there. But hey, these are only black people after all, they have no right to even ask those white men anything, do they? I think your "interlopers" planned on opening fire all along, why bring the weapon if you're not gonna use it? Why the bullet proof vest?
8
It is interesting that these long term protestors are neither working or going to school. How are they being supported, and by who; or are they just more parasites feeding at the public expense?
29
Brilliant, Jay! They're black so they must be feeding at the public trough-is that pretty much your world?
11
How do you know ANY of that about any of these people?? Just because one can take the time to be an activist doesn't mean one has no other responsibilities or time obligations. Your comment has nothing to do with the (few) known facts in this case, but says volumes about your general attitude. Objecting to the potentially skewed reporting on this doesn't make you a racist. There is plenty to understand here before anyone tries to determine 'who did what to whom' and their motivations. However, random comments suggesting that the protesters must be 'parasites feeding at the public expense' is certainly racist.
3
Had the gunmen been members of ISIS this country would be in a state of lock down right now. But home grown white terrorists who fire on innocent black protesters barely raise an eyebrow. The hypocrisy is staggering.
67
I know right? Like the hypocrisy of blaming the entire white population for the actions of one hispanic man, and his accomplices... and then claiming *they're* the racist group....
12
Or it barely raised an eyebrow because no one was actually killed. If they had been members of ISIS, we'd be hearing about how they were provoked.
1
The protesters themselves said that the "innocent" people who were shot were actually relentlessly pursuing and assaulting the suspects. But you're right, in the current narrative, self-defense is "terrorism" and "white-supremacy". Even if you're not white (one of the suspects isn't).
4
Interesting how they are being called white supremacists all over the media, but they arrested the second suspect and he is hispanic. As usual in all of these type of situations, we need to get all of the information before taking a stance.
27
I think the officers who acted so swiftly to arrest the suspects should be commended. Granted, that's their job, but it takes a certain level of professionalism and cool-headedness to seek justice for those who are in the act of accusing you of not treating them justly. Cops deserve to be held accountable when they disgrace their badges, but they also deserve to be recognized when they put personal feelings aside to protect those who, to put it mildly, do not have the kindest sentiments toward them.
27
But the question is, how did the police treat these individuals? I mean, the protestors were certainly making sure the shooter's rights weren't violated, right? Oh, the irony!
3
Putting personal feelings aside is called professionalism, period. That is what they are PAID to do. Why should we praise them for acting like professionals? Is that no longer a job requirement? From some of them, it appears it is not even part of the training process, let alone a requirement.
1
Liz, you can be praised for being professional even though it is your job to be professional. There is no contradiction and it's certainly nice to do so.
I have learned not to shovel against the tide. Liberal readers of the Times{85+%}march in lockstep. If you are anything but a progressive they are not your friend and are not interested in lively debate. Any dis-agreement brings forth shouts of racist,gay basher, xenophobe, hater, on and on the names keep coming.
32
Your point being. . . ?
3
That's completely unfair. I know plenty of liberals who count racists, gay bashers, xenophobes, and other sundry right-wing bigots among their dearest friends and allies. So take heart!
8
This is a tendency of modern liberalism in general and unfortunately has seeped into all branches of liberal establishment and taken over like a cult. It is exactly why I have distanced myself from the herd called liberals/progressives. Those with clout are the leftwing versions of Glen Beck, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh. They have as much of a you-are-either-with-us-or-against-us mentality as the Bush/Cheney administration. No thanks, I am not with either side. They are opposite sides of the same divisive, delusional, and dishonest coin. I want no affiliation with either.
6
"....a Hispanic man"
Hispanics, or Latinos, can be of any race: White, Black, Asian, Native, etc. So, he could still be a white Hispanic.
Hispanics, or Latinos, can be of any race: White, Black, Asian, Native, etc. So, he could still be a white Hispanic.
13
Neo-nazis wouldn't see him as 'white Hispanic', I assure you.
11
Yeah ok sure... but a *white supremacist* hispanic? Yeah... no.
3
The New York Times treats Hispanics or Latinos as nonwhite until they commit a crime, then they become white. For example, it treats Hispanics as nonwhite for demographic purposes, rejoicing that more black and Hispanic babies are being born than white babies. But a Hispanic who shoots an African American becomes white. For example, George Zimmerman was Hispanic until he shot Trayvon Martin. Don't you see how this works.
6
Police have arrested two of the suspects in the BLM shooting incidents. According to police, there were two males and one white female. However, it appears unclear who attacked who. A You-Tube video shows two BLM protestors telling a reporter that BLM demonstrators assaulted and begin punching three white men when they started taking videos of the demonstrators. According to the two protestors, who are black, the three white men at first began backing up and then then fled. According to the two demonstrators, at least one of the men fired shots as he were being chased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
13
During the last couple of decades the country has been transitioning towards a corporatist oligarchy (Google "Major Study Finds The US Is An Oligarchy). Part of the process towards becoming an oligarchy includes the control the oligarchs have over the media, which has become a conglomerate made up of 6 large corporations.
They've used that control as a propaganda tool. That explains the venomous and vicious programming millions of people are exposed to from coast to coast, in radio and TV. It also explains the policies that have basically sought to allow almost unfettered access to weapons all over the country.
When you combine the neoliberal policies of austerity (which is basically induced economic insecurity), the legacy of racism and oppression, and the prevalence of guns, you have the perfect recipe for the rise a fascistic right wing, which ends up serving as an additional buffer protecting the oligarchy. Think of this quote by Jay Gould: "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
At the root level, this basically what's going on. There are some parallels to what happened in the early 1930s in Europe when armed gangs started going around intimidating and (eventually) shooting social justice activists, unionist, and socialists. We even have a person seeking political office espousing similar rhetoric.
They've used that control as a propaganda tool. That explains the venomous and vicious programming millions of people are exposed to from coast to coast, in radio and TV. It also explains the policies that have basically sought to allow almost unfettered access to weapons all over the country.
When you combine the neoliberal policies of austerity (which is basically induced economic insecurity), the legacy of racism and oppression, and the prevalence of guns, you have the perfect recipe for the rise a fascistic right wing, which ends up serving as an additional buffer protecting the oligarchy. Think of this quote by Jay Gould: "I can hire one-half of the working class to kill the other half."
At the root level, this basically what's going on. There are some parallels to what happened in the early 1930s in Europe when armed gangs started going around intimidating and (eventually) shooting social justice activists, unionist, and socialists. We even have a person seeking political office espousing similar rhetoric.
13
Huh?
2
To Luis:
Thanks. There are identifiable parallels between the rhetoric of that "person seeking political office" and the 1930s.
1. Our country is on the decline - we are no longer great.
2. We are being out-smarted and humiliated by foreign opponents.
3. There are living among us people who should not be.
4. Elect me and I'll fix everything.
5. But, I'm not really gonna tell you how.
Thanks. There are identifiable parallels between the rhetoric of that "person seeking political office" and the 1930s.
1. Our country is on the decline - we are no longer great.
2. We are being out-smarted and humiliated by foreign opponents.
3. There are living among us people who should not be.
4. Elect me and I'll fix everything.
5. But, I'm not really gonna tell you how.
7
The police are really out of line killing a guy with a knife who was probably freaking out. Why not shoot a suspect in the leg? Why do the police shoot to kill someone without a gun...O black guy...the more publicity over these things, you would think that police would stop doing this stuff but no, that is too much to ask.
9
What am I missing? Men with masks and bulletproof vests at demonstration and not approached or questioned by police? And how did one of shooters reveal himself to be Asian? Or Hispanic?
16
1) Because that's not illegal.
2) Because they arrested him using other evidence, and *then* discovered (long after BLM blamed "white supremacists" with literally no evidence whatsoever) that he was hispanic.
2) Because they arrested him using other evidence, and *then* discovered (long after BLM blamed "white supremacists" with literally no evidence whatsoever) that he was hispanic.
6
The real terrorists amongst us: white male christians, who are almost always the ones using guns in mass killings to terrorize our communities, yet the cops keep killing black men for sport it seems, while the armed and dangerous white men are allowed to run free to murder again and again.
27
"almost always the ones using guns in mass killings to terrorize our communities"
Do you mean aside from the vastly more common black-on-black shootings? Or the vastly-more-common white on white mass shootings?
Exactly how many white-on-black mass shootings can you name?
Do you mean aside from the vastly more common black-on-black shootings? Or the vastly-more-common white on white mass shootings?
Exactly how many white-on-black mass shootings can you name?
8
People who criticize the ignorance of viewers of Foxnews should recognize there's a flipside.
2
And please, keep in mind that they have arrested one hispanic male and one white male, and are on the lookout for one potentially asian female.
Because if there's one thing white supremacists love, it's a good diverse group.
Because if there's one thing white supremacists love, it's a good diverse group.
3
These were armed men were wearing masks and bulletproof vests (per the police) while videoing the protesters without journalism creds or the protesters' permission.
Sorry anti-BLMers, but that's just creepy and definitely threatening. I'm surprised any of the protesters had the courage to punch them....
Sorry anti-BLMers, but that's just creepy and definitely threatening. I'm surprised any of the protesters had the courage to punch them....
15
These were armed men were wearing masks and bulletproof vests (per the police) while videoing the protesters without journalism creds or the protesters' permission.
so, as a white man, i need permission of black BLM protestors even though they are protesting in a public area? Are you some type of racist?
so, as a white man, i need permission of black BLM protestors even though they are protesting in a public area? Are you some type of racist?
18
"or the protesters' permission." Geeze I thought I could film what I want whoever I am at a public event in a public space. Guess I'm behind the times in these matters.
5
Since when does someone need permission to gather in a public place and videotape events? As far as "bulletproof vests" are concerned, most people (and even the media) have a tough time distinguishing the difference between a load bearing vest and a bulletproof vest; while they do look similar to the layman, it's judging someone and propagating misinformation before the truth can come out. I don't blame these individuals for wearing balaclavas due to the fact that the BLM protesters would more than likely take photos of them and disseminate their images on social media. It's bad enough that the local BLM chapter moved to label these individuals as "white supremacists" without any evidence to the contrary. They had as much right to be there as the BLM protesters, and these individuals didn't try escorting them away from the police station. Just because people are upset about something shouldn't give them the ability to control the environment and narrative (especially when they move into damage control mode when it was realized that the protesters escalated the situation by unnecessary confrontation). It's another incident that ends up looking bad for the media and BLM.
7
was one of them really a "white supremacist hispanic"?
17
Um, no. There's literally no evidence that any of the shooters is a white supremacist. There are claims they fired in self defense... and no... no hispanic white supremacists.... Hispanic yes, but not a white supremacist....
12
Much of the BLM rages seems misplaced or at least unjustified. The news media stirs up racial animosity by focusing on white-on-black murders. The reality is that interracial murders are relatively rare, but African Americans commit most interracial murders. (The 2014 FBI Uniform Crime Report [Expanded Homicide Data Table 6] shows that 409 blacks murdered whites while 189 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks.) So, by this measure, it should be whites, not blacks, protesting. The running tally kept by the Guardian shows that so far this year police have killed 1,024 people, or who 261 were black. African Americans make up 13 percent of the population but 25 percent of those killed by police; however, percent of the total population is not the relevant data. African Americans made up 38.7 percent of those arrested for violent crimes, including 52.3 percent of those arrested for murder or manslaughter and 56.4 percent of those arrested for robbery. The Washington Post recently published the results of its analysis of police shooting, which revealed that only about five percent of the shooting fall into the controversial category, but this type of reporting seems all too rare. Better balanced reporting would go a long way in reducing racial tensions.
44
William Case of Texas ignores the obvious - that if police are killing black suspects pro-actively and without challenge because 'the suspect seemed threatening,' 'was attempting to flee,' 'was reported to be a threat,' 'looked like a monster,' 'appeared to be under the influence of bath salts,' etc., etc. - these fatalities are going to be accepted without challenge more than not. It's only with the proliferation of iPhone and smartphone cameras that police have suddenly, notoriously, been under the public's eye. That's not accurately reflected in FBI statistics. What a shock. FBI director Comey, without a scintilla of hard factual evidence, was fast to jump on the band wagon that charges BLM with 'inhibiting' law enforcement efforts. With all due respect in proportion to the extend to where any of it is deserved, Comey, Casey and all who rely on this stilted, racist, self-predictive, 'statistics' are part of the problem. The anger is placed correctly. It is justified. The media has been slow on the uptake and systemically is inclined to echo the police position. It has been the emergence of damning tape after damning tape that the racists cannot wish or explain away. In fact, they just define their own prejudice the more that they try to do so.
1
I just saw a video on youtube of two young black men describing what happened. They claim that the protesters punched the 3 men because they thought they looked suspicious then the mob chased them and punched them more and the man drew a gun while the mob was chasing them. The media also says that one of the shooters is Hispanic. This protest occurred on public property so these 3 men had every right to be there but the protesters claim they were removing them from the area which they had no legal right to do. The media has already tried, convicted and executed these 3 men for racially motivated terrorism without looking at the facts just like they did with Zimmerman and Officer WIlson. Its also amusing that the media has labeled them white supremists even though at least one of them isn't white, just like they called Zimmerman white although he wasn't.
47
thanks for pointing out facts the NY Times does not.
10
The media has executed them? Not given much to overstatement, are you?
8
It was interesting that in a video interview, a female member of the "escort committee" stated that after pushing the 3 men out of the security perimeter she stopped but that 5-6 males started "chasing" the counter protesters. She yelled at them to stop warning that they might be running into a trap. They disregarded her warning and shortly thereafter the shooting started.
I would not be surprised if these anti-protesters were sincerely frightened as they were being chased. But the real issue is that they came to the rally carrying guns. Their bravado in facing a group of black protesters and intentionally provoking them was fueled by the ultimate confidence they had in their GUNS. Were they not carrying guns they would have been a lot more circumspect and prudent about confronting the group. Make no mistake; this was not a first amendment attempt to persuade by reasonable speech. This was intended to be provocation and was stupid provocation to boot. It is this belief in ones right to stupid provocation supported by "gun rights" which is to my mind on of the most pernicious legacies of the NRA.
I would not be surprised if these anti-protesters were sincerely frightened as they were being chased. But the real issue is that they came to the rally carrying guns. Their bravado in facing a group of black protesters and intentionally provoking them was fueled by the ultimate confidence they had in their GUNS. Were they not carrying guns they would have been a lot more circumspect and prudent about confronting the group. Make no mistake; this was not a first amendment attempt to persuade by reasonable speech. This was intended to be provocation and was stupid provocation to boot. It is this belief in ones right to stupid provocation supported by "gun rights" which is to my mind on of the most pernicious legacies of the NRA.
4
Speaking as a white man, I do not approve of the actions of the white suspect. He did not act on my behalf, nor per my instructions, direct or otherwise (I have never advocated violence as a means of conflict resolution).
Just so we're clear on that.
Just so we're clear on that.
11
Speaking as a human, none of these people (identified as one hispanic and one white male, with one possibly-female-asian at large) represent me. Nor do the BLM protesters, who are accused (... by BLM protesters...) of having incited the incident by attempting to illegally force non-protesters out of the public space they were legally occupying alongside the protesters.
4
A classic case of looking for trouble and finding it....going to a tense situation (protest) in a mask is asking for a confrontation. Clearly the three were trying to provoke the protestors, whom appear to have gladly taken the bait (with life threatening results).
Confronting, stopping, and attempting to frisk a guy in a mask at a protest is not the smartest thing a private citizen could do.
Confronting, stopping, and attempting to frisk a guy in a mask at a protest is not the smartest thing a private citizen could do.
9
....going to a tense situation (protest) in a mask is asking for a confrontation.
but don't blm protestors do this all the time?
but don't blm protestors do this all the time?
8
Particularly as wearing a mask and bulletproof armor while carrying a legal firearm on public ground is... you know... legal....
4
I wouldn't disagree at all, its a poor choice reflecting cowardice.
There's outrage, and then there's selective outrage. I'm neither Republican nor conservative and yet I can't help shake my head at some of the cherry-picking going on in these comments.
There was a very similar shootout the other day that wounded 16 black people in New Orleans. Those shooters were black, however, like their victims, and the Times article about that mass shooting didn't even warrant a comments section. Just another day . . . .
It's become very fashionable to (correctly) point out that angry white guys kill vastly more Americans than do Islamic terrorists -- that the irrational fears of Syrian refugees are better directed towards the Dylan Klebolds and Adam Lanzas in our midst. Shouldn't that same reasoning apply to Black Lives Matter? Everyone knows who Trayvon Martin was. How many 17 year-old black boys murdered by other black boys can you name? Even if it's a few, it's going to be a tiny fraction of the overall number. We should care about these killings regardless of whether they support our anti-Trump narrative or not.
There was a very similar shootout the other day that wounded 16 black people in New Orleans. Those shooters were black, however, like their victims, and the Times article about that mass shooting didn't even warrant a comments section. Just another day . . . .
It's become very fashionable to (correctly) point out that angry white guys kill vastly more Americans than do Islamic terrorists -- that the irrational fears of Syrian refugees are better directed towards the Dylan Klebolds and Adam Lanzas in our midst. Shouldn't that same reasoning apply to Black Lives Matter? Everyone knows who Trayvon Martin was. How many 17 year-old black boys murdered by other black boys can you name? Even if it's a few, it's going to be a tiny fraction of the overall number. We should care about these killings regardless of whether they support our anti-Trump narrative or not.
24
I agree it's all bad. None of these murders are in any way justified.
However, truth be known to the Black Lives Matter crowd, most of the killings of Blacks are perpetrated by your fellow Blacks. So I ask do Blacks really care about Black lives, or are they just out to skewer the White Man?
However, truth be known to the Black Lives Matter crowd, most of the killings of Blacks are perpetrated by your fellow Blacks. So I ask do Blacks really care about Black lives, or are they just out to skewer the White Man?
5
Originally the victims had claimed the assailants were white and Asian. Interesting that the assailants thus far are white and Latino (identity of 3rd assailant unknown). Was it an honest mistake? Was it unintentional racism? Was it an outright lie, since Latino assailants do not fit the paradigm of the BLM movement, whereas Asian assailants could (since they are not, stereotypically, disadvantaged - and in some contexts, such as diversity among tech employers, they are not even considered minorities). Considering that the BLM movement is entirely about honest mistakes vs unitentional racism vs intentional/institutionalized racism, getting an answer to how such a mistake could be made will be very interesting.
9
Interesting indeed. You are such a provocative, inquisitive scholar. And your motive smells all the way in New York.
6
The victims were allegedly shot during nighttime hours by men wearing masks -- so their ability to accurately identify their assailants would difficult even under the best of conditions. The discrepancy is not racist -- just human.
5
People with masks, guns, and bulletproof vests came to this protest and started acting in a really scary way. Yet half of the comments on here are asking why the protestors tried to make them leave. People are indignant and outraged ON BEHALF OF WHITE SUPREMACIST MASS SHOOTERS! They are telling the people who probably saved dozens of lives that they were presumptuous and uppity to defend themselves.
Just when are black people allowed this vaunted second-amendment right of self-defense? When do THEY get to stand up to terror? Is it after they are lying dead in the street riddled with bullets? Is it then that they get to be dubbed "one of the good ones"? - Ha ha ha just kidding. A white-supremacist terrorist went to a church and murdered a pastor and parishioners, and these same commenters just asked why we didn't talk about black-on-black violence. When the victim was really nice kid on his way home and the perpetrator a roided-out serial spousal abuser with a criminal record, we had to hear about how the kid was a terrifying "thug." When it was a child in a park with a toy shot dead in seconds, we heard about how he brought it on himself and had it coming.
Stop with the fake justifications everyone. Always, always, always you say that it was the black people who were in the wrong. No matter what the circumstance, it's the only thing that you ever say. You're fooling NOBODY.
Just when are black people allowed this vaunted second-amendment right of self-defense? When do THEY get to stand up to terror? Is it after they are lying dead in the street riddled with bullets? Is it then that they get to be dubbed "one of the good ones"? - Ha ha ha just kidding. A white-supremacist terrorist went to a church and murdered a pastor and parishioners, and these same commenters just asked why we didn't talk about black-on-black violence. When the victim was really nice kid on his way home and the perpetrator a roided-out serial spousal abuser with a criminal record, we had to hear about how the kid was a terrifying "thug." When it was a child in a park with a toy shot dead in seconds, we heard about how he brought it on himself and had it coming.
Stop with the fake justifications everyone. Always, always, always you say that it was the black people who were in the wrong. No matter what the circumstance, it's the only thing that you ever say. You're fooling NOBODY.
326
Dylan Roof happened 7 months ago, during which time hundreds of white people have been murdered by blacks. You wouldn't know this because the NYTimes doesn't report most of them, just like every "pick" they've made on this article supports the false narrative that white supremacists attacked these protesters.
13
The answer is clear: They are expressing their white supremacist solidarity with the perpetrators. They are engaged in the encouragement of future such crimes, and as such are direct accomplices.
It is living proof that white supremacy in not a subjective problem of a few "diseased" individuals, but is an objective structure of U.S. society. As such, it is the peculiar SOCIAL DISEASE of the United States of America. For unlike Europe, we should already know better given our peculiar history in this regard.
It is living proof that white supremacy in not a subjective problem of a few "diseased" individuals, but is an objective structure of U.S. society. As such, it is the peculiar SOCIAL DISEASE of the United States of America. For unlike Europe, we should already know better given our peculiar history in this regard.
10
Amen
1
Sadly, this recent shooting comes as no surprise. A few days ago, I was reading the St. Paul Minnesota newspaper was overwhelmed by the number of racist comments towards the deceased Jamar Clark and towards blacks in general. I think we are seeing a resurgence of overt racism and even fascists attitudes across the country. As the middle-class continues to shrink (the average american worker makes only $30,000 a year) and D.C. remains in the pockets of lobbyists, Americans will increasingly look for convenient scapegoats and support demagogues for office.
284
It is such a shame when any community is judged by public comments to media sites which are rarely moderated. The history of race relations in the St Paul/Minneapolis area is as complex as it is anywhere in the US. I would remind people that the Minneapolis/St. Paul area has--over the last decades-- been a place of refuge for those fleeing violence and persecution from Somalia, Vietnam, Russia, Eastern Europe as well as Chicago and Gary, IN. Most have found lives which offer more opportunity; some do not thrive or bring with them the habits of violence. Many good people and organizations try--as they do elsewhere--to meet the challenges of unsolvable problems, but sadly failures occur.
Shootings during peaceful protests are news in St. Paul/Minneapolis simply because such things are rare and generally police are well-trained and understand how accountable they are to the community for unnecessary violent actions. Fear changes a great deal, however; as do people carrying guns to a peaceful protest--whatever their intentions were.
Shootings during peaceful protests are news in St. Paul/Minneapolis simply because such things are rare and generally police are well-trained and understand how accountable they are to the community for unnecessary violent actions. Fear changes a great deal, however; as do people carrying guns to a peaceful protest--whatever their intentions were.
1
Decades ago a high school teacher of mine commented about talk radio - at that time - that it was like picking up a rock and seeing what crawls out.
I live in Minneapolis and I fully expect a riot in Minneapolis in the coming weeks.
The BLM forces (for lack of a better aggregating term) have been relentless in accusing the police of basically executing a handcuffed prisoner. The attorneys of the police officers involved claim that the Jamal Clark grabbed an officer's gun.
Right now, there is no evidence available to back up either claim. I'd normally be really surprised if a Minneapolis officer executed a handcuffed man in front of an assembled crowd. Even by the standards of recent videos published on the Internet, I find this hard to believe.
There's supposedly a video that shows something, but the police (state, DOJ, FBI) are sitting on it for now as part of their investigation. I suspect that the video will not support the protesters claims, especially not to any standard that would result in criminal charges against the police and probably not even justify administrative discipline.
I think the BCA/DOJ/FBI are sitting on the video in hopes that this cools off before they have to announce (again) that there was no police wrongdoing and that no charges or discipline will be brought to avoid a Ferguson-style riot.
With the recent shooting at protesters (quickly, and without substantiation labeled "white supremacists") I think the mood will remain so hot that civil disturbance is unavoidable.
The BLM forces (for lack of a better aggregating term) have been relentless in accusing the police of basically executing a handcuffed prisoner. The attorneys of the police officers involved claim that the Jamal Clark grabbed an officer's gun.
Right now, there is no evidence available to back up either claim. I'd normally be really surprised if a Minneapolis officer executed a handcuffed man in front of an assembled crowd. Even by the standards of recent videos published on the Internet, I find this hard to believe.
There's supposedly a video that shows something, but the police (state, DOJ, FBI) are sitting on it for now as part of their investigation. I suspect that the video will not support the protesters claims, especially not to any standard that would result in criminal charges against the police and probably not even justify administrative discipline.
I think the BCA/DOJ/FBI are sitting on the video in hopes that this cools off before they have to announce (again) that there was no police wrongdoing and that no charges or discipline will be brought to avoid a Ferguson-style riot.
With the recent shooting at protesters (quickly, and without substantiation labeled "white supremacists") I think the mood will remain so hot that civil disturbance is unavoidable.
52
Right now, there is no evidence available to back up either claim.
that never stopped protestors in Ferguson. Why should it in Minneapolis?
that never stopped protestors in Ferguson. Why should it in Minneapolis?
3
But, pause for a moment...what if you are wrong.
3
Just like Crown Heights and Freddy Fashion Mart and the anti-Asian business targeting of the 90s. There is an intention to whip the mob into a violent frenzy in order to intimidate and get a free pass and mob violence. Its exactly what the KKK did.
4
The shooters sound like unpleasant people who should be criminally investigated, and if appropriate, charged with any and every crime they committed.
But if a group of white people had held a protest, and black people showed up to watch, however suspiciously, there would be no acceptance in the Times of their argument that they had a right to chase those people away with violence, the way the black protesters chased the non-black observers in this instance. We might even see comments here from progressive commenters about how the white protesters had it coming to them for chasing observers away. It was taken for granted by such commenters in the Zimmerman/Martin case than Martin would have a right to assault Zimmerman merely for "profiling" and following him. (I think Zimmerman's use of force was inexcusable, but if Martin assaulted Zimmerman, being followed would not have been just cause.)
But if a group of white people had held a protest, and black people showed up to watch, however suspiciously, there would be no acceptance in the Times of their argument that they had a right to chase those people away with violence, the way the black protesters chased the non-black observers in this instance. We might even see comments here from progressive commenters about how the white protesters had it coming to them for chasing observers away. It was taken for granted by such commenters in the Zimmerman/Martin case than Martin would have a right to assault Zimmerman merely for "profiling" and following him. (I think Zimmerman's use of force was inexcusable, but if Martin assaulted Zimmerman, being followed would not have been just cause.)
54
Where does it say they "chased those people away with violence"?
2
If a group of black men arrived on the scene of a white protest, the police would have arrested them first and asked questions later. So your thesis is rendered invalid.
4
This protest took part on public property just like the campus protest in which students and facility attempted to block the media. It is amazing the gall of people who exercise the right to assemble on public space then attempt to block others from exercising that same right. In both cases if the protesters wanted privacy and to avoid outsiders from intruding then they should have held this gathering on private property.
8
This is chilling. Are we in 1950s Georgia?
Where were the police BEFORE the shooting occurred? Why didn't the police coordinate with BLM protesters and provide protection, instead of leaving it up to the protesters?
Where were the police BEFORE the shooting occurred? Why didn't the police coordinate with BLM protesters and provide protection, instead of leaving it up to the protesters?
79
One of the problems is that while the group is occupying public space on the precinct grounds, they had not asked for police help when this, as they put it, suspicious group showed up. They were literally feet away from the office, but yet took it upon themselves to organize a 'safety committee' to escort these folks away. One might argue that the shooters had as much right to be on public space as they did, but the protesters felt infringed upon and entitled to that prime space.
Nonetheless that those arrested were thinking mischief and harm is despicable. But one needs to carefully look at the facts and see that the protesting group is not entirely blameless for this and could have easily avoided it by quickly requesting police assistance, the professionals in handling this, but chose not to.
Neither side is thinking clearly.
Nonetheless that those arrested were thinking mischief and harm is despicable. But one needs to carefully look at the facts and see that the protesting group is not entirely blameless for this and could have easily avoided it by quickly requesting police assistance, the professionals in handling this, but chose not to.
Neither side is thinking clearly.
11
american society is disintegrating
i thought that was obvious
i thought that was obvious
3
Since when do police protect black people in the US?
4
It just occurred to me that I did NOT get a New York Times "breaking news" alert for this story. Why? How is this different from a mass shooting? FIVE people were shot!
7
Because even the NYT knows enough not to take BLM members at their word.
5
Where was the outrage when two cops were shot in cold blood in their squad car by a Black man? Where is the outrage when there is black on black crime. The hypocrisy from the BLM is disturbing.
37
It only appear BLM when it please them. They don't need facts get in their way.
6
Come on! NYC was shut down for the two police who were shot by a psychotic - But, that's two police. We always hear of 'black on black crime.' But, that's not the issue at hand - the issue is that crime is defined by a system that punishes the innocent indiscriminately with the guilty using color as a guide. The hypocrisy is from the white media that feeds the meme that all this is somehow motivated by an 'anti-white' and 'anti-christian' agenda. It reeks of KKK and the 'Night Riders' of the post 'Birth of a Nation' Jim Crow South.
2
A U-Tube video shows two BLM protestors telling a reporter that BLM demonstrators assaulted and begin punching the three white men when they started taking videos of the demonstrators. According to the two protestors, who are black, the three white men at first began backing up and then were pursued as they fled. According to the two demonstrators, one of the men fired shots as they were being chased. If apprehended, the three will probably claim self-defense. An analogy would be black men firing at white demonstrators who beat and then pursued them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be
17
One incident and you liberals get heart palpitations that this is somehow a right wing movement against BLM that is somehow linked to Trump???? Pray tell, how so? Were the shooters wearing Trump t-shirts?
I am sorry that this occurred. I am equally sorry that the man that you elected into the White House has stirred up racial tensions with almost every move. Trump has not done so. He is saying what should be on every persons mind: Secure our borders, take care of our military and get rid of ISIS.
I am sorry that this occurred. I am equally sorry that the man that you elected into the White House has stirred up racial tensions with almost every move. Trump has not done so. He is saying what should be on every persons mind: Secure our borders, take care of our military and get rid of ISIS.
11
Trump also says register all Muslims, close down mosques, beat up protestors, torture people not to get information but because they deserve it, assemble a force of something like Waffen SS to round up millions of illegal immigrants, American POW's deserve no respect, build an impossibly expensive and totally useless wall, and a myriad other things which are completely idiotic.
If you really support him, you must not be listening to him. He has zero effective policies and offers no details on any of his deranged, unworkable ideas.
If you really support him, you must not be listening to him. He has zero effective policies and offers no details on any of his deranged, unworkable ideas.
6
I believe when Donald Trump tweets a graphics showing completely false statistics about black on white crime, he's part of the problem. I won't even defend Obama except to say that it would be nice to see some real evidence when he's accused of stirring up racial tensions. How? By having a Kenyan father?
8
Because Trump condones those of his supporters who "rough up" a BLM activist and calls those of his supporters who attack a Muslim "passionate" and "patriotic." Demonize a group of people - ANY group of people - make them less than human - and you encourage the use of violence against them. Trump is a dangerous demogogue and explicit racist. The statements he makes pursuing the Presidency legitimizes racism and racism inevitably leads to racial violence.
5
This country, this world is coming apart at the seams and no one seems to care. Rational, reasonable voices are being ignored, including our President's, while hyperbole and stridency loudly and too often are blasted from every rooftop. It has once again led to violence. We have become addicted to over the top emotionalism and now we are overdosing on it. But how do you put so many people in rehab for drugs - fear, anger and hate- they can produce readily and copiously at will, all by themselves.
Even though they are a small minority – most of us are tired of all the noise and have been for some time – they include two of the leading contenders for the Republican nomination for the Presidency. These so-called leader’s rhetoric and actions encouraged the violence of the white supremacists in Minneapolis. The Republican Party knows Donald Trump is a menace but its spineless members are terrified of him and the people in their party he represents.
The Left is no font of calm reason either, too often allowing hysterics to overcome rationalism. I can’t get the women at Yale screaming at the top of her lungs for no good reason out of my mind.
Usually we could rely on the media to be a calming influence but in the cash strapped media landscape the media is mainlining emotionalism to make a buck. I don't know where or when this will end or if it ever will, but in a Presidential year, I am sure it will get worse.
Even though they are a small minority – most of us are tired of all the noise and have been for some time – they include two of the leading contenders for the Republican nomination for the Presidency. These so-called leader’s rhetoric and actions encouraged the violence of the white supremacists in Minneapolis. The Republican Party knows Donald Trump is a menace but its spineless members are terrified of him and the people in their party he represents.
The Left is no font of calm reason either, too often allowing hysterics to overcome rationalism. I can’t get the women at Yale screaming at the top of her lungs for no good reason out of my mind.
Usually we could rely on the media to be a calming influence but in the cash strapped media landscape the media is mainlining emotionalism to make a buck. I don't know where or when this will end or if it ever will, but in a Presidential year, I am sure it will get worse.
25
War and conflict sell: Peace and resolution, not so much!
2
The irony of NYT forum posters and BLM protesters who chant, "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!" and "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!" and attendant screaming insults and profanities at police and throwing rocks and bottles at cops . . . being outraged and shocked at violence directed at THEM - well, "ironic" doesn't quite do it.
This is the problems with incendiary language and accusations. It gets the nut-jobs riled up - across the whole spectrum. (See the black gang that attacked two white guys who had a confederate flag on their truck at a country music concert)
But in true communist fashion - that's what they want. Provoke reaction, and radicalize more idiots.
Maybe the sane people on all sides who actually want civil peace and harmony could dial it down and blame the criminals alone who are responsible - rather than condemning whole groups.
Otherwise - expect more and more violence and hatred coming your way.
This is the problems with incendiary language and accusations. It gets the nut-jobs riled up - across the whole spectrum. (See the black gang that attacked two white guys who had a confederate flag on their truck at a country music concert)
But in true communist fashion - that's what they want. Provoke reaction, and radicalize more idiots.
Maybe the sane people on all sides who actually want civil peace and harmony could dial it down and blame the criminals alone who are responsible - rather than condemning whole groups.
Otherwise - expect more and more violence and hatred coming your way.
41
Never confuse the BLM or those who espouse and embrace the movement with logic, it's a losing battle. Let's form a movement that we'll call White Live Matter whenever a black person shoots and kills a white person. You'll hear the protests from the other side in a NY minute.
7
I am waiting for the NRA to tell us that more guns among the protesters would have prevented this attack.
36
That only happens when the people being shot are white!
5
When they're caught - we'll find they're white supremacist militia members aka homegrown terrorists. We need leaders and journalists who encourage dialog, and help unify our nation by stressing are common heritage and humanity - instead we get republican clown car candidates for president who stir up hatred and division, and an entire national network dedicated to superiority of the white race and their corporate overlords.
15
No need to jump to "what we will find", we will know soon enough and you are usually wrong
4
Black Lives Matter standing up for another criminal who tried to take a cop's gun? We've seen this movie before.
50
The "movie" is played out weekly in the black men shot in the back while running away, shot on the ground (for 13 seconds after 2 seconds of shots put them on the ground), tackled while standing in front of a hotel, etc. etc.
You can't just pick 1 movie out of the thousands of movies playing!
Watch them all!
You can't just pick 1 movie out of the thousands of movies playing!
Watch them all!
3
It doesn't matter WHAT they are standing up for, nobody has a right to shoot them.
The end.
The end.
1
People don't buy the BLM lies. People have the right to film protesters. They also have the right to counter-protest. Here is what happened - the BLM fools wanted white idiots to comply their demands for them to stop filming and to remove their masks. Confrontational BLM fools confront white idiots. BLM fools attack white idiots and the idiots start to run. BLM fools chase white idiots and attack again. One of the white idiots starts shooting. Unless there's a clear and present threat, which the white guys were not, stating an intention to do harm and use of physical force, which the BLM fools did IS UNWARRANTED AND ILLEGAL. All the white idiots have to do is claim self defense. Finally, I love how the BLM fools think they have the right to tell others to remove their masks when they, themselves are wearing masks. These BLM protesters have to be some of the dumbest people around.
Video showing BLM protesters physically attacking the white guys before the shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVgpfvwNEwg&feature=youtu.be
Video showing BLM protesters physically attacking the white guys before the shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVgpfvwNEwg&feature=youtu.be
58
Almost comical that two protesters wearing masks insist observers take off their masks. Then attack them.
7
Why are Hispanics white when the liberals are not supportive and people of color when the liberals are supportive. The writer has classified the Hispanic that was arrested as white. I believe that his views are determining his classification.
8
Simple test: If a group of your friends gathers for a public protest, including you -- and see people wearing masks and refusing to say why they are there, do you think "Oh, they are the Lone Ranger"?
Sure, you do...
( I left out bulletproof vests, and cameras pointed at you.).
Sure, you do...
( I left out bulletproof vests, and cameras pointed at you.).
This should be reported as the terrorism it's intended to be.
77
Where are the defenders of the First Amendment? All I seem to hear about is the Second. People (and by people I mean protesters) have a *Constitutional* freedom to assemble in this country, which is just as valid as the right to bear arms.
79
The shooters were the ones that ended up getting intimidated and surrounded by the "peaceful protesters", these protesters then started to physically attack the shooters. This is all admitted to on video by two witnesses. Looks to me like the protesters tried to bully the wrong person.
7
Kasey, are you suggesting that if the protesters and shot these men first, then the protesters would have a valid self defense claim, but since the protesters led them away and were shot last, the shooters get to claim self defense? Do we operate under the principle now that the last one to shoot gets to claim self defense?
3
And, like with gun ownership, they have responsibilities and restrictions on that freedom, including not trampling the rights of other people who assemble at the same time / place.
1
The shooters could not have emphasized more acutely why Black lives matter and why the movement does, too.
51
Or less. They were described as white supremacists but yet there is no evidence of that. The BLM movement is based on fiction. Hands up don't shoot - remember.
12
Because they need a reason to jump ahead of the facts and blame "white supremacists" for a shooting carried out, at least in part, by a hispanic male (and they're looking for a potentially asian woman)?
2
Why are the police leaving it up to members of a protest movement to patrol, monitor, and peacefully remove people who are acting in a suspicious manner? The police need to serve and protect.
309
The police need to serve and protect.
and to be accused of "racism"?
and to be accused of "racism"?
2
Peacefully remove by chasing and assaulting.
2
Your criticism is unfair since this is an anti-police protest the police were probably instructed to keep away to avoid increasing tension. Furthermore, those 3 men had the same right to be there as the protesters. Removing people who were acting in a suspicious manner according to the protesters? A lot of people would rightfully accuse the protesters of the same thing.
5
Agent Provocateurs?
8
White christian terrorists in action. How come the police and NSA never sees their attacks coming? We will see if the police catches them or the remain "at large."
8
I understand a man has been arrested for the shooting already. I wonder how many shootings it will take before we regulate gun owners like we do refugees in our country.
7
Now this is what suppressing free speech REALLY looks like. Those criticizing Black Lives Matter would do well to keep that in mind.
3
"Miski Noor, an organizer at the Minneapolis arm of Black Lives Matter, said the shooting happened as demonstrators were escorting three masked men who had been behaving suspiciously away from the site of the rally"
Who authorized them to do this? Where were they being escorted? These are rhetorical questions, because a simple youtube/liveleak search reveals evidence they were being attacked and chased.
Who authorized them to do this? Where were they being escorted? These are rhetorical questions, because a simple youtube/liveleak search reveals evidence they were being attacked and chased.
28
This comment disgusts me. You are literally justifying white supremacists shooting unarmed Black protestors.
7
BLM is establishing a narrative, and as any good politician knows, controlling the media means controlling the narrative. Photographs and video which contradict the desired narrative are at best inconvenient and at worst completely undermine the movement.
The real problem here is that the Mayor and Chief of Police have been doing as much as possible to de-escalate the potential for violence, which has meant keeping officers away from the crowd. I think this has been a critical flaw, allowing the protest to develop its own momentum which can spin out of control pretty easily once the protesters start defending their protest on their own terms.
Ideally, the cops would have strongly encouraged provocateurs to go home and rant on the internet instead as well as letting the protesters know that anyone can be there, even if they disagree, and that they do not control the public space.
The real problem here is that the Mayor and Chief of Police have been doing as much as possible to de-escalate the potential for violence, which has meant keeping officers away from the crowd. I think this has been a critical flaw, allowing the protest to develop its own momentum which can spin out of control pretty easily once the protesters start defending their protest on their own terms.
Ideally, the cops would have strongly encouraged provocateurs to go home and rant on the internet instead as well as letting the protesters know that anyone can be there, even if they disagree, and that they do not control the public space.
7
"The other, a 32-year-old Hispanic man, was arrested about 45 minutes later while in his vehicle in South Minneapolis."
White supremacists have apparently really widened their recruiting efforts.
Your comment disgusts me as well. There's video of BLM protesters admitting these men were attacked and chased by a large group of people (I all but said that in my comment), yet you're still going to perpetuate the lazy narrative put out by this lazy reporting.
White supremacists have apparently really widened their recruiting efforts.
Your comment disgusts me as well. There's video of BLM protesters admitting these men were attacked and chased by a large group of people (I all but said that in my comment), yet you're still going to perpetuate the lazy narrative put out by this lazy reporting.
5
On behalf of all white people, if it turns out this was white on black race-motivated violence (it looks that way, based on the article), I apologize to the black community. This was not done in my name and I call on the authorities to prosecute these terrorists to the fullest extent of the law. Racial violence has no place in our system and must be punished with zero tolerance.
Regardless of the purpose or the perpetrators, I wish a speedy recovery to those injured and the comfort of community to those they love and who love them.
Regardless of the purpose or the perpetrators, I wish a speedy recovery to those injured and the comfort of community to those they love and who love them.
8
So what do you call it when a black man mows down white/Latino/Asian cops? Or when a black person shoots a white person? Silence is deafening.
Doubtless this gets published.
Doubtless this gets published.
12
It depends on the intent. It could be racially motivated, or it could be a robbery gone bad, a professional hit, a bad drug deal, a fleeing felon not interested in going back to jail. If a black person is targeting white people qua white people, then the same hate crime laws should apply.
2
"Witnesses reported that the men were filming protesters and refusing to answer questions about why they were there, she said. In response, the group put together a safety committee to watch for potential agitators and escort them away as a preventive measure, she said."
Not endorsing shooting, but wondering exactly what right some protesters had to question other protesters at the same site, and to "escort them away" as a preventive measure?
Not endorsing shooting, but wondering exactly what right some protesters had to question other protesters at the same site, and to "escort them away" as a preventive measure?
47
Well-organized protests have had marshals who are part of the protest group for as long as I can remember. At best they have a dual function of keeping the protest nonviolent/orderly and identifying disruptive interlopers. When dealing with infiltrating provocateurs these functions overlap. I suspect the latter is what the protest organizers meant to deal with, not men with a mind to shoot up protestors.
Yes, I know about the reported rock and/or brick throwing. Sometimes the marshals aren't in the right place at the right time.
Yes, I know about the reported rock and/or brick throwing. Sometimes the marshals aren't in the right place at the right time.
13
sounds like something else may h ave actually happened.
3
Why don't you ask your friend, Donald Trump?
3
Black college students are referred to as privileged and narcissistic. Each time a black person is gunned down we are all reminded of black on black crime. But these students and victims are also American citizens, and as such have the clearest view of what inequality means. Unemployment, life expectancy, cheap labor - life on the margins of a society with no sense of fairness or shame. Athletes and other entertainers get rich, along with hedge fund managers and health insurance executives - while nurses and teachers and cops are derided as greedy. We should all see it. It's all around us. Well, blacks see it and understand it and are sick and tired of our never ending conversation about race. They understand Charleston, and Ferguson, and Cleveland and they understand the difference between the projects and the gated "communities". We can strive for economic justice through tax policy and worker empowerment and wage fairness or we can continue having this "conversation" even though most of us understood what was happening a long time ago.
21
Interracial murders are relatively rare. The 2014 FBI Uniform Crime Report (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6) shows that 409 blacks murdered whites while 189 whites (including Hispanics) murdered blacks. Interracial murders are mostly back-on-white murders, but the vast majority of murders are intraracial, not interracial.
14
Lots of platitudes for another soak the rich argument.
6
This is absolutely appalling, by which I mean the attempted murder of protesters by obviously racist homicidal maniacs. It's possible they're members of some white supremacist group, which should be treated as any other terrorist group (hunted down and dispatched), but if one of them is actually Asian that sort of rules that out. In any case I hope they're found soon, before they hurt anyone else, and brought to justice; I believe attempted murder as a hate crime can easily be punished by a sentence of more than 25 years.
It also appalls me, less so, that protesters were hurling bricks and bottles at police. May sound harmless but that's got the potential to kill people too, and when people use violence in any protest they undercut their message.
It appalls me even less that Mr. Clark was shot. In all likelihood, as he's known as a suspect in an assault, who fought with paramedics and police, he was probably a violent person who brought about his own death. People who continue to fight with police get shot, and I have no problem with that. And being unarmed is not a license to attack whoever one wants, it should be well known that an unarmed person can still easily kill or maim someone, even accidentally.
Hopefully the violence over this subsides, and these murderous gunmen are arrested, or killed while fighting arrest, which would be fine too.
It also appalls me, less so, that protesters were hurling bricks and bottles at police. May sound harmless but that's got the potential to kill people too, and when people use violence in any protest they undercut their message.
It appalls me even less that Mr. Clark was shot. In all likelihood, as he's known as a suspect in an assault, who fought with paramedics and police, he was probably a violent person who brought about his own death. People who continue to fight with police get shot, and I have no problem with that. And being unarmed is not a license to attack whoever one wants, it should be well known that an unarmed person can still easily kill or maim someone, even accidentally.
Hopefully the violence over this subsides, and these murderous gunmen are arrested, or killed while fighting arrest, which would be fine too.
7
"Obviously racist homicidal maniacs?" Possibly, but not necessarily. It is usually a good idea to await the facts (perhaps even a trial a couple of years from now) before being quite so categorical. I think that all the current racial tension in America demands a national civilized discussion and respectful debate. I'd like to suggest Donald Trump and the head of Black Lives Matter.
3
Dan you should know by now the NYT only presents the facts supporting it's pre-defined narrative. You say the shooters were "obviously racist homicidal maniacs", but the other narrative, if you would have bothered to give it ten seconds to look, is of these guys being attaced by the "protesters".
4
Dear Crusader Rabbit,
They brought guns, masks, and bulletproof vests to a protest they had no real interest in joining. I can't see any other rationale for their actions except causing trouble and eventually shooting at people. There are plenty of racist maniacs around the world, it wouldn't be surprising in the least if these were some of them.
They brought guns, masks, and bulletproof vests to a protest they had no real interest in joining. I can't see any other rationale for their actions except causing trouble and eventually shooting at people. There are plenty of racist maniacs around the world, it wouldn't be surprising in the least if these were some of them.
98
Before jumping to conclusions, watch this video of protesters speaking immediately after the shootings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be&app...
In this video, the protesters themselves state that the shooters were being *chased and punched* to scare them away from the other protests (in other words, the protesters assaulted the alleged interlopers). The video provides evidence that the shooters shot *only at the people who were attacking them.* If the shooters were indeed being attacked and chased in a public place (possibly with dangerously violent force), then they may have a legitimate claim to self-defense.
Of course, this analysis depends on factual details that we don't have yet -- but this story isn't as one-sided as presented here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-XIGJZMEI&feature=youtu.be&app...
In this video, the protesters themselves state that the shooters were being *chased and punched* to scare them away from the other protests (in other words, the protesters assaulted the alleged interlopers). The video provides evidence that the shooters shot *only at the people who were attacking them.* If the shooters were indeed being attacked and chased in a public place (possibly with dangerously violent force), then they may have a legitimate claim to self-defense.
Of course, this analysis depends on factual details that we don't have yet -- but this story isn't as one-sided as presented here.
78
Perhaps we could watch the video made by the shooters, created prior to going over to antagonize the activists.
Or can you not just admit that shooting protesters is wrong?
Or can you not just admit that shooting protesters is wrong?
63
No, I would say that this analysis tells one everything one needs to know about what is so terribly wrong with the United States today. You think it is perfectly reasonable to pull out a gun and shoot someone who is pushing you.
17
That video brings us some great information on the situation. I am not in any way condoning the actions of the three gunmen, but I think that there is more information to this story that needs to be brought to light before anybody can take a stance. After watching the way that some of the students at Missouri described the reporter's harassment, it seems like there are a lot of actions that without video make it difficult to know if there are biases.
I do question why they brought a gun to the protest since it sounds like it has been relatively peaceful (though I think there were a few protesters there at some point that were throwing things at police). If the gunmen were forced to leave the protest, I would like to hear more about their actions at the protest that caused them to be targeted. With all of the video out there in this day and age, I would assume that at least one person has the event on film. Again, it seems like there are way too many unanswered questions to be able to come to a clear conclusion about the situation.
On another train of thought, Jamal's family has asked that the protests stop. So, I do not understand why BLM is not listening to the family's wishes. Shouldn't they have a say in how the community should be responding? They are the ones that lost a loved one, so they should be the ones that decide what would help them heal.
I do question why they brought a gun to the protest since it sounds like it has been relatively peaceful (though I think there were a few protesters there at some point that were throwing things at police). If the gunmen were forced to leave the protest, I would like to hear more about their actions at the protest that caused them to be targeted. With all of the video out there in this day and age, I would assume that at least one person has the event on film. Again, it seems like there are way too many unanswered questions to be able to come to a clear conclusion about the situation.
On another train of thought, Jamal's family has asked that the protests stop. So, I do not understand why BLM is not listening to the family's wishes. Shouldn't they have a say in how the community should be responding? They are the ones that lost a loved one, so they should be the ones that decide what would help them heal.
11
Thank the Donald. This was even better than just "roughing them up". As a demagogue, one's role is to keep defining "the other" as alien & evil, fomenting hatred and violence. That's what you do.
165
Who do we blame when it's black on white crime? Who do we blame when it's black on black crime? Just so we're clear. It's the individual. The elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. Shocking.
11
Right. Because racial violence didn't exist before Trump ran for president. Excellent logic on your part.
11
Black on black crime and black on white crime are irrelevant to the issue of unarmed black people being shot within seconds of being confronted by police. But nice attempt to confuse the issue.
3
Since the police will not protect BLM events, then BLM needs to hire its own protection.
9
I asked a 'black lives matter' advocate why there is so much outrage when a white man or a policeman of any color kills a black man, but no outrage when hundreds of black men kill hundreds of black men every year? He said that is a racist question that doesn't deserve a response.
In LA alone there have been 230 black on black murders over the past 12 months. Paul Revels, 67 was the latest. Why is so much energy going to protesting rather than doing constructive work in these troubled neighborhoods?
In LA alone there have been 230 black on black murders over the past 12 months. Paul Revels, 67 was the latest. Why is so much energy going to protesting rather than doing constructive work in these troubled neighborhoods?
49
So police are free to shoot unarmed black citizens until there is no crime against black people committed by black people? Is that the argument? If not, what rate of "black-on-black" crime would be acceptable before it becomes ok to protest police killings of unarmed citizens?
11
Sharon don't confuse them with logic you'll lose every time. They don't want to confront the problem head on, so much easier to blame the white race for their own problems. Happens ALL the time. They are ALWAYS silent when another black person kills one of their own. Why? Not salacious enough. Their hypocrisy and movement holds no credibility at all. They refuse to confront that giant elephant in the room, so much easier to blame someone else isn't it?
6
Your friend felt this is a racist question because such a question is meant to divert attention from the issue of police violence. There is a difference. Police are government employees, supposedly trained to keep the peace. Our tax dollars pay their salaries. When they take actions that are overly aggressive or deadly, it is the government's actions. All civilians/tax payers should feel protected by the police force, not fearful. Civilian murder is, of course, not a government action. You cannot equate the two types of actions.
As for the statistic you cite, the problem lies in just reading that one statistic. In order to get the full understanding of those numbers, you also need to understand that this country, in general. self-segregates. As such, since Blacks live around mostly Blacks, most of the victims of their crimes will be Black. Read the additional statistics from this FBI database. I believe it is something like 84% of murdered White people are killed by another White person. Again, it is because of the same reasons.
Lastly, who says no one is working on troubled neighborhoods. I know that here in DC, there are so many organizations doing good work that they are practically tripping over each other. Can more be done? Of course! But, that doesn't mean that every organization has to focus on every problem in the world. The BLM movement is focused on police abuse of power. Shouldn't it be okay for them to just focus on that?
As for the statistic you cite, the problem lies in just reading that one statistic. In order to get the full understanding of those numbers, you also need to understand that this country, in general. self-segregates. As such, since Blacks live around mostly Blacks, most of the victims of their crimes will be Black. Read the additional statistics from this FBI database. I believe it is something like 84% of murdered White people are killed by another White person. Again, it is because of the same reasons.
Lastly, who says no one is working on troubled neighborhoods. I know that here in DC, there are so many organizations doing good work that they are practically tripping over each other. Can more be done? Of course! But, that doesn't mean that every organization has to focus on every problem in the world. The BLM movement is focused on police abuse of power. Shouldn't it be okay for them to just focus on that?
19
So much violence in such a short period of time. Mr. Clark's girlfriend gets assaulted - Mr. Clark gets shot - now the protesters are victims as well. Things are starting to or already have spiraled out of control. It seems like it is time to step back and take a pause - before anyone else gets hurt. I wish the media would give us more information about Mr. Clark's girlfriend and what took place during her assault. Victims of domestic violence are often too scared to come forward and talk - and also too frightened to join in public protests. Thank you.
4
A plea to the oligarchs that own this country:
Please, please, please get together and get on the horn to the chairman of the GOP. Tell him that he needs to destroy the party to save the country. He needs to find Republicans of good will who are willing to lose the next presidential election to stuff the genie Trump and the like have unleashed. Internment camps? Second amendment remedies? Open carry as regular business? Denigration of groups of Americans? They are playing with high power explosives, but you can't stop an explosion half way. Please stop this in its tracks. There is no positive end to what the GOP is encouraging.
Please, please, please get together and get on the horn to the chairman of the GOP. Tell him that he needs to destroy the party to save the country. He needs to find Republicans of good will who are willing to lose the next presidential election to stuff the genie Trump and the like have unleashed. Internment camps? Second amendment remedies? Open carry as regular business? Denigration of groups of Americans? They are playing with high power explosives, but you can't stop an explosion half way. Please stop this in its tracks. There is no positive end to what the GOP is encouraging.
15
Why did the demonstrators have to escort these "shady" people from the demonstration? Why weren't the police protecting the demonstrators, which is their job. Escorting these people away should have been the job of the police.
There are 11,000 gun deaths per year in the U.S. (not including suicides). We don't give a damn. But if one American is killed by a so-called terrorist, we want to shut our borders and spend $ billions to fight a war on multiple fronts.
Saw on the news yesterday that the NRA doesn't want people on the terrorist watch lists to be denied access to guns. Yay for the NRA! They obviously care so much about the lives of Americans. I want every Republican candidate and Bernie Sanders to answer in the next debates whether they think the NRA is right or wrong on this issue. And I would like to see every so-called religious leader telling their congregations whether or not they think people on the terrorist watch list should be denied the ability to buy guns in opposition to the NRA.
I think we have gone completely insane.
There are 11,000 gun deaths per year in the U.S. (not including suicides). We don't give a damn. But if one American is killed by a so-called terrorist, we want to shut our borders and spend $ billions to fight a war on multiple fronts.
Saw on the news yesterday that the NRA doesn't want people on the terrorist watch lists to be denied access to guns. Yay for the NRA! They obviously care so much about the lives of Americans. I want every Republican candidate and Bernie Sanders to answer in the next debates whether they think the NRA is right or wrong on this issue. And I would like to see every so-called religious leader telling their congregations whether or not they think people on the terrorist watch list should be denied the ability to buy guns in opposition to the NRA.
I think we have gone completely insane.
115
The police and the mayor are bending over backwards to "de-escalate" -- that means leaving the protesters alone as much as possible.
Unfortunately, this just encourages a situation which can spin out of control when protesters believe they have the right to control the protest space and keep anyone out for any reason.
I think the cops were onto something, but they let it go too far and lost penultimate control and allowed anarchy and street justice to take over. Unfortunately had they kept the protesters ringed by police, we'd probably have that riot we'll have in a couple of weeks when the as-yet-undisclosed video is released.
All we can hope for in Minneapolis is the ultimate arbiter of good public behavior in December -- subzero temperatures. A week of -10F would cure even Gandhi's urge for civil disobedience.
Unfortunately, this just encourages a situation which can spin out of control when protesters believe they have the right to control the protest space and keep anyone out for any reason.
I think the cops were onto something, but they let it go too far and lost penultimate control and allowed anarchy and street justice to take over. Unfortunately had they kept the protesters ringed by police, we'd probably have that riot we'll have in a couple of weeks when the as-yet-undisclosed video is released.
All we can hope for in Minneapolis is the ultimate arbiter of good public behavior in December -- subzero temperatures. A week of -10F would cure even Gandhi's urge for civil disobedience.
2
The 3 men had the same right to be there as the protesters. It is not the job of the police to act as personal servants to black mobs and remove people from public property as the whim of this mob. The irony is that the people who accuse the police and public of treating blacks as criminals while doing nothing criminal are now doing the same to those who dare challenge the protesters, which is also freedom of speech assembly.
2
BLM needs to respond to this crime against humanity by protesting more. Whites, all whites, need to apologize for this crime by whites against persons of color.
5
haha that's too funny when you consider that 6% of the population commits well over half of all violent crime.
7
What? I have been the victim of one burglary, one attempted burglary and one assault so far in my life. All were committed by young black men. I'm certainly not blaming black men as a group for these crimes, nor do I expect all black people to apologize for them.
12
All lives matter.
28
Define "all lives".
Historically, in the U.S. it has been assumed that the lives that mattered most were the lives of white males of northern European extraction. During 150 years of Jim Crow, Black lives really didn't matter at all. In my lifetime, I have seen this change, but to claim that all lives matter equally in our country is just stupid. Some Black lives matter a little more, but most are still pretty far down the list.
For a dozen generations, Black lives did NOT matter in this country. Let them proclaim it for once!
Historically, in the U.S. it has been assumed that the lives that mattered most were the lives of white males of northern European extraction. During 150 years of Jim Crow, Black lives really didn't matter at all. In my lifetime, I have seen this change, but to claim that all lives matter equally in our country is just stupid. Some Black lives matter a little more, but most are still pretty far down the list.
For a dozen generations, Black lives did NOT matter in this country. Let them proclaim it for once!
140
This is missing the point. Of course all lives matter, but when black lives are objectively and empirically valued less than white lives (as evidenced, for instance, by the disproportional amount of state-sanctioned violence against black Americans), we must make an effort to redress that inequality. THAT is why the movement is Black Lives Matter. "All Lives Matter" is the destination. Black Lives Matter is how we get there.
233
The whole point of "Black Lives Matter" is, in the real America, NOT all lives matter. Certainly, not equally.
18
Were any of the shooters Syrian?
3
It will be interesting to see how the knee-jerk anti-BLM types try to defend or dismiss this terrorist act. I predict further character assassination of Jamar Clark will be their first line of defense, as if that excuses the police and now the racist terrorists. How many Americans did ISIS kill Monday night? Who really poses an existential threat to this country?
144
Dear Neal,
I'd like to tackle that last question: neither white supremacist groups, nor random lunatic shooters, nor the Daesh are an existential threat to this country. None of them can possibly destroy this nation; they all can and will kill individuals, but there is no way they can take control here or destroy us.
The most destructive of them is undeniably the Daesh, but that's in terms of human life, not American life.
Existential threats to this country are pretty limited, basically nuclear war with one of the major nuclear powers (not Pakistan, Israel, nor North Korea who don't have the range), or electing a bombastic idiot who would cause such a war, like Trump.
I'd like to tackle that last question: neither white supremacist groups, nor random lunatic shooters, nor the Daesh are an existential threat to this country. None of them can possibly destroy this nation; they all can and will kill individuals, but there is no way they can take control here or destroy us.
The most destructive of them is undeniably the Daesh, but that's in terms of human life, not American life.
Existential threats to this country are pretty limited, basically nuclear war with one of the major nuclear powers (not Pakistan, Israel, nor North Korea who don't have the range), or electing a bombastic idiot who would cause such a war, like Trump.
17
"how the knee-jerk..."
Oh the irony.
When this story is fleshed out I hope you remember this comment and cringe. These men were being attacked by a mob.
Oh the irony.
When this story is fleshed out I hope you remember this comment and cringe. These men were being attacked by a mob.
11
Dear ChrisK,
Hang on, are you defending the shooters? They came to a protest with guns, masks, and bulletproof vests. They planned on murder. They should get no sympathy nor mercy.
Hang on, are you defending the shooters? They came to a protest with guns, masks, and bulletproof vests. They planned on murder. They should get no sympathy nor mercy.
8
If only the Black Lives Matter protesters had been carrying guns, they could have stopped this shooting from happening (ugh!)
or
the Minneapolis PD could stop the protests cold by simply showing us the ambulance and neighborhood surveillance videos, assuming that those videos would exonerate the police involved.
But they probably don't, otherwise they would already be shown on Fox News every 5 minutes. Therefore, this new war will only escalate until those with the greatest power in our society learn that a little humility will go a long way in achieving the peace they are charged with upholding.
or
the Minneapolis PD could stop the protests cold by simply showing us the ambulance and neighborhood surveillance videos, assuming that those videos would exonerate the police involved.
But they probably don't, otherwise they would already be shown on Fox News every 5 minutes. Therefore, this new war will only escalate until those with the greatest power in our society learn that a little humility will go a long way in achieving the peace they are charged with upholding.
19
Very sorry to hear about this.
Has Trump indicated yet whether or not he was in favor of the shootings?
Has Trump indicated yet whether or not he was in favor of the shootings?
106
Trump is doing his part by tweeting incendiary images of Black people, while spreading false information concocted by non-existent sources.
10
@AM I believe "the Donald" said he personally wouldn't have shot the protesters but that many many people would have supported doing so.
3
Soon. Count on it.
1
Very sad. Often it is not at all the people our society calls "thugs" who inflict violence on society, but the angry, reactionary force that is gaining steam. Just the other day a mob pummeled a protestor at a Donald Trump rally, and the candidate embraced their tactics.<br/><br/>Give a man a sense of grievance and a gun and this is the logical result.
223
Mass shootings due to lax gun laws are an American form of terrorism
300
Mass shootings (an odd use here) are not due to lax gun laws.
Sorry.
Sorry.
6
No, this is our second amendment right; the people should have had enough sense to get out of the way of the shooter!
2
That is hilarious and I am sure LJS was being ironic. really. I hope.
1
As the fear mongering about refugees continues, actual acts of terrorism are occurring. Where is the wall to wall news coverage? Why is Congress not immediately drafting and passing legislation in response? We fear victims of war before we fear those among us who are actually doing harm. Why? Because they are us not them?
128
Well, if by "us", you mean "white", then yeah, that's why we let "us" gun people down and blow them up (Unabomber? McVeigh?) with nary a murmur of concern, but attack "them" even if they are traumatized children. Nice people.
6
"Protests started within hours of Mr. Clark’s shooting, as some neighbors said that he had been handcuffed when he was shot, which contradicted statements by the Minneapolis police."
As Ferguson taught us, never let facts stop an opportunity to rail against "the man"!
As Ferguson taught us, never let facts stop an opportunity to rail against "the man"!
43
Except this time there's video which the police refuse to release.
4
BLM tweeted about its protest within hours of the shooting, based on the statements of a 10-year old, demanding that police be fired immediately.
No one has the facts yet. Like Ferguson. The sooner someone releases all the information, the better. Surely there were people there with videos.
No one has the facts yet. Like Ferguson. The sooner someone releases all the information, the better. Surely there were people there with videos.
8
What 'facts' do you have in mind? A statement by the police does not, simply because of the source, establish any 'fact.'
It shouldn't surprise any of us that black residents are more likely to believe the statements of black witnesses than those of the police, given what is going on in this country.
I find it intriguing that your your response to a story about non-black thugs terrorizing black citizens is to mock the protesters - some of whom are now victims.
It shouldn't surprise any of us that black residents are more likely to believe the statements of black witnesses than those of the police, given what is going on in this country.
I find it intriguing that your your response to a story about non-black thugs terrorizing black citizens is to mock the protesters - some of whom are now victims.
11
Minneapolis possesses a so-called "liberal" identity, but it has a long history of racism and bigotry. A long-time, well-known "capital" of anti-semitism, Minneapolis also experienced a profound exodus of white citizenry "fleeing" the urban core in the 1950's and 1960's--because of the perceived threat over an uptick in African American population--which in those years was utterly miniscule.
I am so happy to be out of that place--passive aggressive hate wrapped up in "Minnesota Nice." It is suffocating! (Just ask the Coen Brothers.)
I am so happy to be out of that place--passive aggressive hate wrapped up in "Minnesota Nice." It is suffocating! (Just ask the Coen Brothers.)
17
Yeah, the whole "white-flight" thing was totally unique to Minneapolis. It was a fad that started here and really took off. Read a book.
Oh, and I stand with BLM for the most part, so don't even go there.
Oh, and I stand with BLM for the most part, so don't even go there.
14
Yes, it's ok to stigmatize all residents of Minneapolis based upon the actions of a few. Oh, wait, that's stereotyping, isn't it?
19
Ask yourself why white flight happened. Do a little research. I assume you know how to Google. Nice stereotyping too I might add.
7
This is truly frightening. I believe people are being whipped up by the likes of Trump. He is dangerous and incendiary.
304
IF someone goes after my son (who is not, but could be taken for Mexican) and it's clear they were followers of Trump -- I will haunt him until the day one of us finally passes away (I'm not saying dies because I don't mean that I will kill him -- but I would legally harass him forever).
1
The NYT is doing just as much whipping up for the other side. Not a good situation for those in the middle.
That is just not American. The gun men do not represent my country. Prayers to the victims
25
Actually, it is sadly representative of America.
14
Maybe the worry about possible Muslim terrorists is a deliberate misdirection.
Skinheads and Neo-nazis at gun shows make me feel so much safer.
Skinheads and Neo-nazis at gun shows make me feel so much safer.
142
Turns out one of the suspects is Hispanic though, which pretty much rules out the shooters being skinheads or neo-Nazis.
4
@Dan Stackhouse: Ah, there are Hispanic Neo-Nazi organizations in Spain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neo-Nazi_organizations#Spain
You can be Hispanic and be white. He could be a of Spanish extraction. There are white Latin Americans of various European extractions.
You can be Hispanic and be white. He could be a of Spanish extraction. There are white Latin Americans of various European extractions.
4
And the reason this is not being referred to as terrorism?
307
Dear Mplsguy,
There's one thing stopping that: whether they're members of a group or random homicidal maniacs. If they're lunatics who just wanted to kill people, that's technically not terrorism. If they're part of the American Nazi Vermin group or something, that's terrorism.
There's one thing stopping that: whether they're members of a group or random homicidal maniacs. If they're lunatics who just wanted to kill people, that's technically not terrorism. If they're part of the American Nazi Vermin group or something, that's terrorism.
3
Because the protesters are white.
5
That subjectivity is why terror/terrorist/terrorism are not very useful terms. It is in the eye of the beholder. When I get tired of hearing xenophobia masquerading as antiterrorism, I mention my many-great grandfather Jacob Schearer and his brother Christian whose parents came to America in the earlier 1700s and who both fought with the Carolina irregulars in our Revolutionary War - think Swamp Fox and The Patriot. That unit - guerrilla rebels warring against the established government and hitting civilian as well as military targets - would have fit our label of terrorists back then. [Usually I don't hear much more on the subject.]
3
"demonstrators were escorting three masked men who had been behaving suspiciously away from the site of the rally,"
It is appropriate to go beyond escorting people who are "acting shady" and stop and question them. And yes, follow-up with a frisk if their answers are not acceptable. This is where false cries of racism regarding stop-and-frisk can actually cost lives. Stop-and-frisk can save lives when performed by well-trained, and supervised officers.
In this case, the thugs (yes, they are thugs) were White and Asian and should have been frisked.
It is appropriate to go beyond escorting people who are "acting shady" and stop and question them. And yes, follow-up with a frisk if their answers are not acceptable. This is where false cries of racism regarding stop-and-frisk can actually cost lives. Stop-and-frisk can save lives when performed by well-trained, and supervised officers.
In this case, the thugs (yes, they are thugs) were White and Asian and should have been frisked.
13
Apparently, no police were involved--this was all done by the protesters themselves, who have NO right to stop and frisk anyone, much less "escort" them (other protesters) anywhere.
14
Stop and frisk was an ineffective tactic used to NYPD officers to up accountability quotas and enforce affluent white quality of live standards on the backs of black New Yorkers. It was failure and %90 of the people frisked were found completely innocent. They would lock people up for days for putting feet up on the subway or failing to bring I.D. with them while taking out the garbage. Ridiculous and Ray Kelly will forever be shamed for it.
1
"And yes, follow-up with a frisk if their answers are not acceptable."
so demonstrators have a right to ask by standers to a frisk if they have unacceptable answers? So if I am walking and minding my own business (but looking suspicious) they can stop and frisk me? tell me, if it is ok for black demonstrators to do this is it ok for whites to do this to blacks (or would that be racism)?
so demonstrators have a right to ask by standers to a frisk if they have unacceptable answers? So if I am walking and minding my own business (but looking suspicious) they can stop and frisk me? tell me, if it is ok for black demonstrators to do this is it ok for whites to do this to blacks (or would that be racism)?
12
We have come a long way the past 7 years. Just the wrong direction.
35
The good news is this is NOT the President's fault. His presence simply woke up the racist beast that had been growing in the belly of Amerikkka for the past 300 years.
26
That statement requires the suspension of disbelief
1