People are not seriously concerned about terrorism until it dawns on them that they can not avoid being the next victim. When Jews were killed in a Paris grocery store it was tragic but not dangerous if you are not Jewish. Or when Charlie Hebdo staff was brutally attacked that too didn't feel threatening if you were not a journalist or satirist. But they are were proverbial canaries of what is to come next. Radical Islam is a disease that is attacking the weak. Those who are not part of the society, those who see no future, no purpose. Those who have lots of free time on their hands and are financially supported either by family, government, or private donors. Autocratic Arab societies and ghettos or Europe are a breeding ground for radicalization. Rise of Somali gangs in Minneapolis is an American example.
I am getting sick and tired of listening to those who seem to justify the sick and murderous actions of these barbarians because they are poor. Yes it may true that many are from disadvantaged backgrounds; but time and again the so-called leaders come from middle class families in Europe and North America. The father of the mastermind terrorist behind the Paris attacks rightfully called his own son a psychopath and devil. It seems to me that such sentiments amount to trying to make nice with a rattlesnake. The true muslims tell us loud and clear that these lunatics are in no way , shape, or form anything but animals. The only way to deal with vicious animals is to hunt them down. Enough of the psychobabble. There will never be true peace until they are destroyed once and for all.
1
Remember the kidnapping of women and school girls by boko haram https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/04/nigeria-abducted-women-an...
Now Mali attack. in 2013, it was an attack on a mall in Nairobi, Kenya by Al-shabaab http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/westgate-mall-a...
Clearly, many facets, multi pronged attacks.
Now Mali attack. in 2013, it was an attack on a mall in Nairobi, Kenya by Al-shabaab http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/oct/04/westgate-mall-a...
Clearly, many facets, multi pronged attacks.
2
When will Russia, France and the United States stop shipping guns to the Middle East? When you go to the root of the violence, who is really responsible?
2
It is sad but this is a religious war; individual Muslim sects against the world!
3
Right now conservative Muslims in Saudi Arabia and Iran are outraged and horrified by groups like ISIS and Boko Haram. They are now willing to fight these groups militarily, at least somewhat, but they need to acknowledge that they have brought this on themselves. It's rather like the relationship between Fox News and the Tea Party. Both Fox News and the Saudis have flooded their followers with conservative propaganda filled with lies and inflammatory fallacies. Then after a few decades of this, their followers started to think for themselves, and used this brand of fallacious paranoia to create views that their leaders never wanted. Fox news wanted to create sheeple willing to vote for tax breaks for the rich, and they got legislative terrorists who want to shut down the government and collapse the US economy. The Wahabbi clerics wanted women who didn't drive and wore veils, and they got violent young men who kill, rape and destroy property with only the faintest veneer of quasi-Islamic justification.
3
Want to reduce terrorism ? Stop invading countries and end the Saudi support for ISIS.
2
Let us not forget the Thanksgiving Day 2008 Mumbai attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks.
The sponsors were from Pakistan, the perpetrators were from Pakistan. The targets were train stations, hotels, restaurant and Jewish synagogue. Yet Pakistan received and continued to receive misplaced blessings and foreign aid from America and its western allies.
The sponsors were from Pakistan, the perpetrators were from Pakistan. The targets were train stations, hotels, restaurant and Jewish synagogue. Yet Pakistan received and continued to receive misplaced blessings and foreign aid from America and its western allies.
1
I guess we should all memorize the Quran. That is our best defense in the event of a terrorist attack. How could anyone say this is not about religion?
4
Lots of good people dying, East and West. Meanwhile, Obama says: No Assad stepdown, no destruction of ISIS.
Americans are easily duped, but how long will it be before Europeans, who can see what is really going on and who is really behind terrorism all over the Middle East, say "Choose: us or them"?
Americans are easily duped, but how long will it be before Europeans, who can see what is really going on and who is really behind terrorism all over the Middle East, say "Choose: us or them"?
Religion is but a tool often used by leaders to direct and control people to perform acts that increase the power of the leaders. For example the Vatican and European monarchies during the crusades of the middle ages. Such control is strongest among the uneducated and poor since through religion they see a path to salvation in the after life better than being experienced in their current life. The leaders of ISIS and Al Qaeda are no different. They are just current day warlords and thugs using Islam to help direct and control their followers. They simply contort the teachings to justify the murder of innocents so as to achieve their goals.
3
You know, people can keep making up excuses for jihadists becuase it makes them feels safe: the jihadists are just misguided people that can be convert to model citizen with some beautiful rhetoric.
The only problem, all the excuses they make can be disproven simply by visiting the poorest corner of China, India, sub-Sahara Africa or just an Indian reservation or Amish community. Those some of the poorest people in their nation, completely not integrated with society at large and often deeply religious but they don't turn violent. There are high suicide rates among Indian and Chinese rural farmers but they don't take out the village with them.
The only problem, all the excuses they make can be disproven simply by visiting the poorest corner of China, India, sub-Sahara Africa or just an Indian reservation or Amish community. Those some of the poorest people in their nation, completely not integrated with society at large and often deeply religious but they don't turn violent. There are high suicide rates among Indian and Chinese rural farmers but they don't take out the village with them.
3
All roads lead to Saudi Arabia, why still denying? Why is congress silent, why is the state department silent about the root of the problem, why does it focus only on the symptoms? Any good doctor will tell you unless you address the root of a disease it will re emerge in million forms repeatedly. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-h...
5
Condolences to the family of Anita Datar, Indian American born in MA and raised in NJ and a public health professional in Mali, starting with Peace Corps in Senegal. Highly qualified in Reproductive Health, HIV prevention and treatment and other related issues she was working on USAID project in Mali.
7
Thanks Vivek. It is sad, and she was doing good service. She is really with Peace Corp. Her death is a big loss. Countries like Mali need public health experts like her. With this kind of terrorism nobody, no dedicated public health worker or social worker, is going to go there now. It is sad. Her Indian and American families are wonderful, and now her teen son, whom she adores, has no mother.
You are right. Such senseless violence.
No country can fix nut bags who kill in the name of Prophet of Peace or whatever. Feudalism, medievalism, religious zealotry, bigotry, nativism, provincialism, addiction to tyranny or brutality, patriarchy, autocracy and outright ignorance and un-democratic thinking cannot be fixed merely through military interventions. These people need enlightenment that might take generations or centuries, and we need to get away from people with a severely dysfunctional minds and skewed DNA.
At the moment I am not sure what the response should be.
You are right. Such senseless violence.
No country can fix nut bags who kill in the name of Prophet of Peace or whatever. Feudalism, medievalism, religious zealotry, bigotry, nativism, provincialism, addiction to tyranny or brutality, patriarchy, autocracy and outright ignorance and un-democratic thinking cannot be fixed merely through military interventions. These people need enlightenment that might take generations or centuries, and we need to get away from people with a severely dysfunctional minds and skewed DNA.
At the moment I am not sure what the response should be.
I'm not sure how to rid the world of this Islamic fundamentalist cancer, but we need to include psychiatrists to analyze why some people are attracted to this religion. It has not gone through an Age of Enlightenment the way Christianity did in Europe after hundreds of years of religious wars; the various warring sects exhausted themselves, eventually realized how futile religious fundamental ideas are to live with. We have an element of this in our country in Protestant sects and white supremacist groups itching to start a "Holy War." What makes them flip into pathology? Psychiatrist can help in understanding their minds, but profiteers don't want their source of lucre, guns, to stop.
Islam still adheres to fundamentalism - although many do not subscribe to it - and it looks like a war with the West is what is needed to destroy the warlike element of this religion. Fundamentalists must be wiped out because they do not understand compromise. A war of shocking fury is what these arrested adolescent men need to realize that their game of pure power will not get them what they crave, pure control; Power is the name of the game with them and we, the West, must answer in kind to "shock and awe" them into reality.
I am a liberal Democrat and find the Republican Party repulsive; however there are realities we must face, and soon. There are chemical weapons and dirty bombs to consider; the West has handed over its power to fundamentalists for profit, now we're paying the price.
Islam still adheres to fundamentalism - although many do not subscribe to it - and it looks like a war with the West is what is needed to destroy the warlike element of this religion. Fundamentalists must be wiped out because they do not understand compromise. A war of shocking fury is what these arrested adolescent men need to realize that their game of pure power will not get them what they crave, pure control; Power is the name of the game with them and we, the West, must answer in kind to "shock and awe" them into reality.
I am a liberal Democrat and find the Republican Party repulsive; however there are realities we must face, and soon. There are chemical weapons and dirty bombs to consider; the West has handed over its power to fundamentalists for profit, now we're paying the price.
1
Psych might help
Consider the Sociopath-where one is w/out conscience. They have no empathy feel no love, suffer no doubts, anxiety or embarrassment which appears as confidence & translates as charisma. Their only fear is being dominated by others. So the only thing they value is dominating others-a constant preoccupation & can be sadistic. Often smart as they aren't burdened by conscience, see themselves superior over those that are & use that to manipulate them. They learn early their lack of values is not socially acceptable so hide it: often masquerading orthodoxy.
Now consider Islam the alter-ego of its founder. Mohammed was born to a tribal society w/ Vendetta law system & was orphaned early. That means w/out protection of kin he could be killed on a whim & his status was near the bottom. As one might expect he became adept at not offending others/good judgment. His society valued tribal leaders, poets & keepers of religious sects (was surrounded by hermits). If he was a sociopath he'd obsessed w/ reversing his status. Solution: he started his own religion w/ the idea of a tribe based on it. For 1st 12 years he preached in Mecca an inclusive message yet accrued <160 follows. Being nice didn't work so he threatened others w/ damnation. They kicked him out. At Medina he gained political office. At that point he turned to coercion. Eventually those that didn't submit were killed. Perhaps it's no coincidence that Islam means submission & those who don't suffer violence.
Consider the Sociopath-where one is w/out conscience. They have no empathy feel no love, suffer no doubts, anxiety or embarrassment which appears as confidence & translates as charisma. Their only fear is being dominated by others. So the only thing they value is dominating others-a constant preoccupation & can be sadistic. Often smart as they aren't burdened by conscience, see themselves superior over those that are & use that to manipulate them. They learn early their lack of values is not socially acceptable so hide it: often masquerading orthodoxy.
Now consider Islam the alter-ego of its founder. Mohammed was born to a tribal society w/ Vendetta law system & was orphaned early. That means w/out protection of kin he could be killed on a whim & his status was near the bottom. As one might expect he became adept at not offending others/good judgment. His society valued tribal leaders, poets & keepers of religious sects (was surrounded by hermits). If he was a sociopath he'd obsessed w/ reversing his status. Solution: he started his own religion w/ the idea of a tribe based on it. For 1st 12 years he preached in Mecca an inclusive message yet accrued <160 follows. Being nice didn't work so he threatened others w/ damnation. They kicked him out. At Medina he gained political office. At that point he turned to coercion. Eventually those that didn't submit were killed. Perhaps it's no coincidence that Islam means submission & those who don't suffer violence.
Another senseless tragedy. What is very troublesome is that it appears to be a competition between rival jihadist groups.
There have been a lot of comments here about how religion is the problem, or poverty, hopelessness, the West's intervention in the ME, etc.
Well, here is another correlation. Have you noticed that that 99.999% of the people perpetrating these attacks are men? So, MEN must be the problem. Let's eradicate all the men on the planet and then the world will be much safer.
The problem with these simplistic statements is that they don't account for the fact that 99.99% of men, Muslims, the poor, disenfranchised, etc don't belong to terrorist organizations and don't resort to violence.
The problem we currently face with radical jihadists has arisen from a much more complex set of factors that includes many factors. These problems take root in the violent capacity of human beings that is unchecked by the normative factors of robust social structures and governance.
It is also important to consider the complex web of historical interactions between West and East that has contributed these problems and speak them out loud as well as try to rectify them. But examining our own natures, history, interconnectedness requires a degree of introspection that many want to avoid.
A militant sense of rightness can exist as easily in the religionist as the atheist.
There have been a lot of comments here about how religion is the problem, or poverty, hopelessness, the West's intervention in the ME, etc.
Well, here is another correlation. Have you noticed that that 99.999% of the people perpetrating these attacks are men? So, MEN must be the problem. Let's eradicate all the men on the planet and then the world will be much safer.
The problem with these simplistic statements is that they don't account for the fact that 99.99% of men, Muslims, the poor, disenfranchised, etc don't belong to terrorist organizations and don't resort to violence.
The problem we currently face with radical jihadists has arisen from a much more complex set of factors that includes many factors. These problems take root in the violent capacity of human beings that is unchecked by the normative factors of robust social structures and governance.
It is also important to consider the complex web of historical interactions between West and East that has contributed these problems and speak them out loud as well as try to rectify them. But examining our own natures, history, interconnectedness requires a degree of introspection that many want to avoid.
A militant sense of rightness can exist as easily in the religionist as the atheist.
1
Please stop saying disaffected youth or poor or disenfranchised or whatever the latest term is. these people are already having murder on their mind. Let's talk about how we handle weapons. All I have seen with mass shootings are a bunch of wimps who could have been tackled by a five year old if not for a gun.
We have literally armed this world
We have literally armed this world
2
Very difficult to deal with a radical aspect of a culture where "life" is their cheapest commodity, while it is our most cherished.
3
I see no point in killing other people. I've no idea what is going through terrorists minds when they decide to attack innocent people. I am hoping that these attacks will blow over soon, not as if they are unimportant, but that they won't happen again. Knowing the world we live in, it most likely will occur again.
Many commenters appear aware that the religion of Capitalism - for its mercenary war against any value other than Profit, for its vicious indifference to humanity other than as an exploitable expendable resource - merits at least equal credit or blame for the conditions that spawn these tragic angers.
As most are well aware, even as ALL MSM wildly point the finger - Look over there, not here, be upset if you must today about Islam, but never never subject to scrutiny or critique the source of this alarm - the global capitalist war against all and any other ideology. Your blind ignorance and/or refusal to confront this core corruption is a first article of faith in the Almighty Dollar.
But enough self-examination. folks, now back to our regularly scheduled rant against something else - today featuring Militant Islam!
As most are well aware, even as ALL MSM wildly point the finger - Look over there, not here, be upset if you must today about Islam, but never never subject to scrutiny or critique the source of this alarm - the global capitalist war against all and any other ideology. Your blind ignorance and/or refusal to confront this core corruption is a first article of faith in the Almighty Dollar.
But enough self-examination. folks, now back to our regularly scheduled rant against something else - today featuring Militant Islam!
Even Islam, particularly the Jihadist kind, is capitalistic too. There is a historical connection between some monotheistic religions, mercantilism, colonialism and of course global capitalism.
This is a program, not a siege. It has all the hallmarks of agency work, consistent with the larger Middle East destabilization and deconstruction agenda which crucially hinges on ethno-religious factionalism. If such factionalism doesn't exist, it must be created. All roads lead to the Caspian Basin.
Another soft target attacked by extremists. The "moral high ground" argument so beloved by Americans is once again shattered by the grisly reality of terrorism.
We want to believe this is not about religion. Read the Atlanric Monthly article on what drives ISIS. According to this article, this is all about religion. When you ask ISIS, they tell us it is all about religion. Their publications say this is all about religion. We like to believe that it is not and hope it is not, but ISIS participants seem to believe it is.
3
This relationship between Islam and violent fanaticism is complex. As a muslim, I can say that indiscriminate killing of non-combatants is strictly forbidden. In the same token, bombing of German civilian areas or 2 atomic bombs to Japan in WWII is also not permissible (legitimate war or not, it does not matter, you just can not do it). Therefore the immediate reaction from muslim world is utter denial and reaction in the form of "this is not Islam and these are not muslims" Some muslim circles even claim that these are the conspiracies of "western/global" forces to make look Islam as a violent and non-sense religion. They say why so many atrocities in the name of Christianity have never been associated with this religion. But there is another aspect. The West reformed and put "Christianity" out of daily life to great extent. This has not happened in muslim countries (and probably will never happen) and westerners think that " you see this was Christianity who created our fanatics in the last two millenia so you have to also reform Islam and get much more secular". This is not a reasonable expectation and this is not the correct approach. It helps to the hand of extremists. Instead lets address core issues like hopelessness, injustice, tyrannical and perverted Saudis, oil/arm lobby etc etc
5
Islamist indoctrination seems to create a fertile ground for radicalization. It's not the religion but it's the thinking about society, values, etc., that is closely associated with it. An abhorrence of Western values must already exist; otherwise, how could so many young people be so easily convinced to kill Westerners?
3
Why are we responsible for reforming Islam? And more importantly, instead of blaming everyone else and everything else for it, just look to its 7th fairy tales of war and violence. No one takes responsibility for their belief in nonsense and just as written here blames other things and other people.
2
For it's 1st 500 years Islam did nothing but wage war against Christianity. In the process launched 400 battles, took over 1 million Christians from Europe's southern shore as (often sex) slaves in raids, and took 2/3rds of Christian lands. Finally after nearly 500 years Christianity punched back, but the Crusades consists of only 28 battles (though not without its atrocities).
The explanation for the asymmetry is that Jihadism is a core doctrine of Islam, whereas love was the core doctrine of Christianity. It took nearly 5 centuries to construct an ersatz military doctrine to enable Christianity to punch back. Islam doesn't remember its millennium of assault on Christianity, only the 28 battles of the crusades.
In truth Islam is not a religion per se. It is a political ideology/movement with a significant religious component. It seems no small coincidence that that political ideology helps facilitate Mohammed's (+his inheritors) ascendance to hegemony. The religion facilitates peoples submission. The name is political, the calendar is based upon a political event, apostasy=death because it's treason=political crime, and its divisions are mostly over leadership issues=political issues.
Islam is in conflict wherever it confronts another system: East Timor,
South Thailand, Burma, Pakistan/India/Kashmir, South Russia, Balkans, N. Africa. No other "religion" has this problem. Successful reform means throwing out the hadiths & probably the Medina portions of the Koran.
The explanation for the asymmetry is that Jihadism is a core doctrine of Islam, whereas love was the core doctrine of Christianity. It took nearly 5 centuries to construct an ersatz military doctrine to enable Christianity to punch back. Islam doesn't remember its millennium of assault on Christianity, only the 28 battles of the crusades.
In truth Islam is not a religion per se. It is a political ideology/movement with a significant religious component. It seems no small coincidence that that political ideology helps facilitate Mohammed's (+his inheritors) ascendance to hegemony. The religion facilitates peoples submission. The name is political, the calendar is based upon a political event, apostasy=death because it's treason=political crime, and its divisions are mostly over leadership issues=political issues.
Islam is in conflict wherever it confronts another system: East Timor,
South Thailand, Burma, Pakistan/India/Kashmir, South Russia, Balkans, N. Africa. No other "religion" has this problem. Successful reform means throwing out the hadiths & probably the Medina portions of the Koran.
Make no mistake about it, religion is at the heart of the violence in Lebanon, Paris, Mali and throughout the Middle East. It is another chapter in the religious civil war between brother Muslims that has been ongoing, off and on, since 3 of the 4 "rightly guided caliphs" were assassinated in the struggle for succession following the death of the Prophet in 632. Much the same occurred within Christianity during the Protestant Reformation beginning in the 16th century, with millions of Christians killed by other Christians.
Neither Christianity nor Islam are monolithic religions. Consequently, we must not make the mistake of tarring all of Islam with the same brush applied to the Muslim jihadists, any more than we would condemn all Christians for the violence inflicted by the Ku Klux Klan.
Regrettably, the U.S. interjected itself in the midst of Islam's civil war, as early as 1953, with the CIA's reckless intervention in Iran, and more recently with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. For this folly, the U.S. and its allies are now paying the price, energizing the jihadist movement in the process.
The question before Western governments today is whether they will continue to poke the hornet's nest with continued military intervention in the Middle East, thereby placing their citizens in the crossfire and drawing more fighters to the jihadist banner, or withdraw and leave Islam to resolve its longstanding conflict without foreign intervention.
Neither Christianity nor Islam are monolithic religions. Consequently, we must not make the mistake of tarring all of Islam with the same brush applied to the Muslim jihadists, any more than we would condemn all Christians for the violence inflicted by the Ku Klux Klan.
Regrettably, the U.S. interjected itself in the midst of Islam's civil war, as early as 1953, with the CIA's reckless intervention in Iran, and more recently with the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. For this folly, the U.S. and its allies are now paying the price, energizing the jihadist movement in the process.
The question before Western governments today is whether they will continue to poke the hornet's nest with continued military intervention in the Middle East, thereby placing their citizens in the crossfire and drawing more fighters to the jihadist banner, or withdraw and leave Islam to resolve its longstanding conflict without foreign intervention.
11
Comments about holding the West responsible are for what is happening are only very partly true. If if one were to concede that there should not have been intervention in Iraq, how does on explain the violence against inanimate objects (temples), Muslim on Muslim violence (Sunni versus Shia) and the sexual subjugation of women? The world and the liberals are still in denial about the root cause of it all: Islam, its theologically permissive and enabling attitude towards violence which gives such powerful sanction to these acts and makes it easy in the minds of the perpetrators to confuse perversity with piety.
8
As noted below, and in the book, Thieves of State, these corrupt countries offer young people nothing. That makes them easy to recruit. Easing their plight is going to take a long time. A global coalition, including Putin and China, will target the launching pads and slow this down. We must be careful not to declare this a war against Islam. Most Muslims want nothing to do with this and we do not want to incite them.
2
Are we now in the period of "one up-menship"?
1
Yes. Jihadist groups are all trying to be the first one to level New York or London so they can found the next caliphate. The first one to defeat the Christian devils will win the hearts of hundred of millions and all Islamic factions would have to submit to its authority lest they be overthrown by their population.
This is not at all far fetched, this is how most pre-modern empires comes to being.
This is not at all far fetched, this is how most pre-modern empires comes to being.
1
I think what is entirely missing in the news coverage when it comes to violence, destruction is how we view the root causes of this violence. In a market based economic system, there is no plan, no strategy, its indifferent to poverty, injustice. We have lost our industries to the " global marketplace" and leave it up to citizens to provide for themselves(no overall national plan, no strategy, the markets do miracles but has limits. Where are the living wage jobs? There are fewer, fewer...where have the auto jobs, steel, mining, textile, furniture jobs, who cares...its day to day...the global market place rules. Less prosperous nations suffer even more.
So we increasingly become impoverished, the fewer who prosper fail to comprehend our harshness...coal miners in Appalachia, small farmers? In the markets people are subject to whatever and it arouses the consciousness of many...the commonality of wars over the last century. Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islam is a rebellion against limits of market based economics where peoples lives are in large part mere commodities.
There will be no peace without justice and this is far too important to be left to chance(markets are indifferent).
So we increasingly become impoverished, the fewer who prosper fail to comprehend our harshness...coal miners in Appalachia, small farmers? In the markets people are subject to whatever and it arouses the consciousness of many...the commonality of wars over the last century. Socialism, Marxism, Communism, Islam is a rebellion against limits of market based economics where peoples lives are in large part mere commodities.
There will be no peace without justice and this is far too important to be left to chance(markets are indifferent).
5
Islam does preach brotherhood, and sort of Socialism, for its members only: Other Muslims, all Muslims, that is. But with non Muslims Islam is actually more brutal than Capitalism,
Hatred comes from poverty. It is not a difficult thing to understand nor does it have to be studied.
No. You might want to go back to the drawing board on this one.
It's time the Muslim community stood up and publicly disavowed terrorism both in the United States and worldwide. The Muslims need to explain why terrorism is not part of the Muslim faith.
3
Poor ordinary Muslims have no voice against the powerful monied Saudi sponsorship of militant, fundamentalist, islamist http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-...
5
Where there is religion, ANY religion, there will be those who pervert its intents
and interpret its teachings to suit there own maniacal and destructive impulses.
This is what we're seeing with the terror attacks, at this time, in relation to Islam. But let's not forget we have fundamentalist Christians, who bomb abortion clinics, and condem us heathens to a suffering hell. We have Jewish fanatics, who claim to be the chosen, and kill and conquer Palestinians in their supposed God given homeland. Right now its insane Muslims who are waging their 'unholy' war. But a quick check of history will show, Christianity had it's religious purges.
In the end, the religious fanatics justify their actions, in 'the name of their god'.
Humans are flawed and find sick solace in religion. As long as this continues we are doomed.
and interpret its teachings to suit there own maniacal and destructive impulses.
This is what we're seeing with the terror attacks, at this time, in relation to Islam. But let's not forget we have fundamentalist Christians, who bomb abortion clinics, and condem us heathens to a suffering hell. We have Jewish fanatics, who claim to be the chosen, and kill and conquer Palestinians in their supposed God given homeland. Right now its insane Muslims who are waging their 'unholy' war. But a quick check of history will show, Christianity had it's religious purges.
In the end, the religious fanatics justify their actions, in 'the name of their god'.
Humans are flawed and find sick solace in religion. As long as this continues we are doomed.
5
One of these days, if such violent attacks continue on soft targets such as Paris or another air liner filled with passengers, a Russian, American French and German coalition, never seen before will emerge, boots on the ground, and they will crush them finally in resolve and yes, anger. I never would have thought of such an eventuality a year ago... but now?
The impossible, the unheard of becomes possible when faced with such brutality as ISIS has exhibited, and gloried in. Their intimidation will backfire and the world will rise up, and say "enough is enough."
The impossible, the unheard of becomes possible when faced with such brutality as ISIS has exhibited, and gloried in. Their intimidation will backfire and the world will rise up, and say "enough is enough."
1
It's the same old story and the world is culpable for the ongoing terrorism. History has shown that poverty breeds radicalism. Our world leaders need to start focusing on improving the lives of the world's poor. Simultaneously, credible muslims must speak out publicly condemning these acts in the name of God.
In 2007 AfriCom was created by Cheney. Obama's first act as our first sorta Africanesque President was to put AfriCom into motion. In that same week, the Autocratic Government of Nigeria nationalized the lands of the People of Nigeria to the State. Everything under the ground became State property. With a wave of an Imperial hand, Africa became America's newest colony, entire villages forceably evicted, with now 50 US military FOB bases in-country, arming and funding groups like the Libyan mercenaries, now ISIS. America is the Uber Terrorist.
2
Should have been better security at this obvious attractive soft target.
3
All terrorists are cowards.
3
Let's all pretend the gunmens acted becuase they were alienated in Mali and couldn't integrated into the society they were born into. More talk of integration and treating terrorists with kids' gloves will solve this problem.
3
The argument that religion has nothing to do with it strikes me as identical to the one that says guns don't kill, people do. They both serve another purpose than solving the actual problem
3
Fear of fanatical Muslims is not a phobia. It is not an irrational fear. I would suggest that if its true that refugees are running from their co-religious for their lives, we in the West have a right to be afraid.
7
Yes, the fear is rational. I'm beginning to believe some Americans deal with it by escaping into moral superiority. They climb onto the moral high ground and somehow believe they are safe.
1
Anita Datar was truly a lovely soul. We both worked at the same .org in DC and she was even my neighbor for a couple of years. She brought so much positive energy and laughter into the world. She dedicated her career to improving public health. That the world lost her in this senseless violence is extremely hard for me to comprehend. I hope NYT readers can keep her son and her family in their thoughts.
38
Marvin, having worked in international public health, we know first hand how selfless the community of these professionals are, how dedicated, how earnest in their mission to improve lives around the globe. Please know that Anita, her family, her colleagues, her global community, are in our thoughts and prayers.
2
Yes, with all this ugly obsession on the cowardly attackers we forget many of the victims who were angels in life and death. Anita is one such American, and there were many non American aid workers who died in this bombing as well. What a tragedy.
How many Chinese nationals would have to be taken hostage before President Xi actively joins the international coalition against terrorism?
3
China has been fighting international terrorism for decades. It just happens that Chinese terrorists captured by America are released to 3rd nations instead of handed back to China to help China investigate their organization.
2
I do apologise for butting in, but the New York Times does deserve a better commenting system. One that is threaded, for starters, so we know the context of a conversation.
When a story attracts many comments, like this one does, it is blindingly obvious that the present system is totally inadequate.
When a story attracts many comments, like this one does, it is blindingly obvious that the present system is totally inadequate.
15
Cheers. My thoughts have been expressed clearly.
Thank you.
Thank you.
3
Yes, I totally agree. Furthermore, they should consider supporting MathJax for those times when it's necessary to typeset mathematics.
2
Its time to use science to end the god fantasy of terrorists. Unless their god moves to another solar system, it all ends in less than 200M years when the Andromeda galaxy gobbles up ours. Of course we might do ourselves in in far less time with climate change, etc.
4
Oh God, I really wish people preaching science online actually know science instead of treating it as a religion. I mean really know science as think scientifically instead of just repeating something they heard.
Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away and consider the very slow speed galaxies moves, how do you suppose it will collide with Milky Way in 200 million years. It would imply Andromeda and Milky Way are closing in at 1/80 the speed of light, an astronomical speed.
The actual collision is predicted at 4 billion years in the future, not 200 million. It also wouldn't destroy Earth as our local star's gravity has a far greater effect on Earth. Earth wouldn't be habitable in any case.
Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away and consider the very slow speed galaxies moves, how do you suppose it will collide with Milky Way in 200 million years. It would imply Andromeda and Milky Way are closing in at 1/80 the speed of light, an astronomical speed.
The actual collision is predicted at 4 billion years in the future, not 200 million. It also wouldn't destroy Earth as our local star's gravity has a far greater effect on Earth. Earth wouldn't be habitable in any case.
2
The terrorists in Mali, France and throughout the world remind me of American young people who form gangs and go about assaulting each other and others in the communities -- people they hade for various reasons. It is heartbreaking because these young people, mostly men, end up giving up their lives just to sound as if they are strong and powerful, with no particular gains for themselves and their gangs except for the temporary fame they get for being the top fighter -- for a little while.
Really, ISIS and Al Queda and possibly Boko Haram are just gangs. They seem to have no goal or purpose other than to feel powerful.
I so wish we could teach them a way to feel important from helping others or excelling in a positive way.
Really, ISIS and Al Queda and possibly Boko Haram are just gangs. They seem to have no goal or purpose other than to feel powerful.
I so wish we could teach them a way to feel important from helping others or excelling in a positive way.
12
read eric hoffer's 'th true believer '
2
Maybe it has something to do with all of the Violence being passed off as Art in TV and movies....Art...I've heard humans tend to imitate it. Perhaps we can start creating more of what is Beautiful, Noble and Uplifting.
Check into Jodorowsky's latest campaign.
Check into Jodorowsky's latest campaign.
One doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to understand these Islamists are animals. I mean, you don't have to hit me on the head to know it will hurt. Until we take action as a organized society and go into their homes, and neighborhoods and eradicate them as a group, we will have this. We must do what the USA did in ww2 and that is throw bombs collectively on them until they cry 'uncle'. it is the only way and everyone reading this, in their heart, knows it.
12
Agreed. We would have lost WWII if we had been as obsessed about avoiding civilian casualties as are our current media and political leaders...
4
All the coddling comments about the poor terrorists are sickening. The 9-11 terrorists were mostly educated and from a wealthy country; Bin Laden was a millionaire civil engineer; the Army doctor who terrorized Fort Bliss did so for his own reasons; his future was bright. Ditto for many of the other terrorists, which include doctors, educators and other professionals. The hundreds of ISIL sympathizers in this country, foolishly allowed in, similarly had endless opportunities. Stop making excuses.
28
Follow the money. Who's funding them, selling weapons to them, teaching them bomb making, technology? Something stinks here.
5
What do these terrorists actually do for work when they're not terrorizing? Do they lead any sort of lives or hold any kinds of actual jobs to work for and earn a living?
4
Well, in terms of funding...........we all are to some extent. A hefty portion of Islamic terrorists are funded by oil interests in the Middle East. The less dependence we have on oil, the less we buy oil, the less they will be funded.
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-2...
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/11/14/how-does-isis-fund-its-reign-terror-2...
3
All roads lead to Saudi Arabia.
My observation, from reading a number of the comments in the New York Times, over many years, is that many Times readers are secular humanists who believe in science, and love blaming the world's religions for many of its problems. This arises, in part, because an entire segment of Republicans in America are Christian evangelicals, many of whom dislike the teaching of evolution in public schools. So, I disagree with "g" answering "jim" in tuscon by saying liberals give a pass to religion as a cause of violent extremism.
It is easy to blame religion for behaviors that are within all of us. Religion is, in part, an attempt to find answers to these behaviors, such as lust, greed, power and control. But it can just as easily be used to cover up and justify such behaviors as well. But such social deceptions are done by secular people as well.
Now we are in a period of violent Muslim extremism. These behaviors are as much about desiring power and control as they are about finding salvation. I think is fair to ask how come this is happening to so many Muslims, and to ask what part their interpretations of their religion have to do with their extremism. Is religion the cause here? In part, it is. We have entered a new era, one where there are no simple answers. Religion and politics have always been entwined. But, it is human desires, secular and religious, which cause behaviors.
11
Or, it might have a tad bit to do with lunatics stroming hotels with automatic weapons, screaming about how great Gawd is as they happily start slaughtering some couple that's worked their whole life, and looks forward to a weekend by the pool.
4
@Little
Your argument might work if not for the fact that these attacks have been declared as part of a 'holy war'; which has little to do with whether New York Times readers are secular humanists, or not.
Your argument might work if not for the fact that these attacks have been declared as part of a 'holy war'; which has little to do with whether New York Times readers are secular humanists, or not.
10
Religion is a concept created by man to diminish and to distract from the harsh realities of life. It is a mind crutch. We would all be better w/o it, except that is, for the few that still use it as a tool.
3
There are many people in this world lacking food, water and other basics: we could do more, but most of them don't kill people because of it. Allahu means a belief in Allah: this is not just general terrorism. Wafa Sultan sheds light on this from her own experience in her writing: The God Who Hates.
6
@DrEdith
There is something so delightfully intelligent and humane about your comment. Too bad it has no relation to the people committing these acts.
There is something so delightfully intelligent and humane about your comment. Too bad it has no relation to the people committing these acts.
4
The religion of peace is at it again.
20
Which one? All religions have professed an interest in peace and all have produced terrorists or murderous bigots. Even the Buddhists in Myanmar have gotten bloody-minded. And there have been secular mass murderers, too. I don't think you're working with all available evidence here.
2
The Sri Lankan Buddhists were also notoriously militant. They were brutal against the Tamil minority (consisting of Hindu, Muslim and Christian Tamils). Their history is bloodier than the more recent ejection of Rohingya Muslims of Myanmar.
Perhaps a judicious "cordone sanitaire" may be appropriate at this point for certain Muslim countries: no flights, no students, no visitors, no "refugees," no business (including oil purchases--this means you, Saudi Arabia). Naval blockade and suddenly wintry relations, where appropriate (this means you, Saudi Arabia). Include them all--Arabian peninsula "countries," Iran, Egypt, etc.--but perhaps less so the Persians than the execrable Arabs, in whose pork-free stews they may all juice. Enough is enough.
9
You are so lost in your bigotry. Arabs and Muslims number in the hundreds of millions. The terrorists and jihadis in the thousands. Most humans are not passionate about killing. It's also worth noting that no group comes anywhere close to the West in the sheer numbers of people it has killed. Our liberal values haven't stopped us from killing millions of people across interminable wars, after all we are the best at fashioning weapons. Buddhists say that suffering is learning. We aren't yet finished learning, apparently.
4
Another day, another attack by... yes, let's call it like it is - Muslim Extremists. I'll leave it to the psychologists to explain how so many can look at the facts being presented to them and still refuse to accept them - these are no islamists, these are not "moderate" islamists, these are poor people who live hopeless lives, these are people radicalized by us, and so on and so on and so on....Anything but the truth: Unreformed religion called Islam is fighting a war against modernity. Across many fronts, worldwide. they tell us so themselves - yet we just shut off our senses and keep repeating our mantra to ourselves.
18
Africa was islam's first victim. It has been raped and pillaged since the origins of islam. It was the first pace where they could introduce their misogyny and patriarchal monotheism against people whose societies had been attacked and destroyed by the romans, greeks, persians, and christians (Romans) since the beginning of history - using the european definitiion of history.
Nothing has changed in Africa since the Roman conquest of 33 BC.
Nothing has changed in Africa since the Roman conquest of 33 BC.
15
Two fundamental reasons for the state of the world today:
The first reason is purely mathematical- probability and statistics. Among any population there is a certain percentage of mental illness. The human population has exploded and continues to expand exponentially, from 2.5 billion in 1950 to almost triple that number now. So we have tripled the number of the unstable in our midst. And as we saw in Paris, it only takes a few to inflict unspeakable injury.
The second reason is man's love of guns. Take a look at these statistics- http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-owner...
Billions of guns already in circulation, and we are making more guns each and every day. In the US alone, it's 10 million new guns every year. http://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/us-guns-manufacturing-atf-report/
The tinder and the match. It's really that simple.
The first reason is purely mathematical- probability and statistics. Among any population there is a certain percentage of mental illness. The human population has exploded and continues to expand exponentially, from 2.5 billion in 1950 to almost triple that number now. So we have tripled the number of the unstable in our midst. And as we saw in Paris, it only takes a few to inflict unspeakable injury.
The second reason is man's love of guns. Take a look at these statistics- http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-owner...
Billions of guns already in circulation, and we are making more guns each and every day. In the US alone, it's 10 million new guns every year. http://www.thetrace.org/2015/07/us-guns-manufacturing-atf-report/
The tinder and the match. It's really that simple.
7
The world seems to be becoming an increasingly hostile place. There are more of us now walking the planet and with that a certain heightened level of aggression. People follow and closely adhere to fundamental attitudes flamed by the fear that the world is indeed changing, and in some areas changing rapidly. And with the abundance of firearms that are in circulation throughout the globe, and still being produced and distributed, well we've got the ingredients for all sorts of terror and violence. Abroad and here within our own borders.
3
Just like the U.S. Government, the government of France is not exactly angelic when it comes to foreign policy and the use of armed aggression. With each new terrorist attack the response will be entirely predictable: use the same tactics as the terrorists- bomb and kill but on a much larger deadlier scale. And so it goes, on and on, nothing learned. When will this madness end and diplomacy be given a sincere try?
4
Paul I totally agree. I've been screaming this, sending letters to my state senators, and I implore you to do the same. At some point the talk has to be backed up. If we're the greatest country on earth, let's prove it! We can do this, we can. It's called leadership.
"When will this madness end and diplomacy be given a sincere try?"
I would like someone to sincerely, and with a straight face, explain to me how you negotiate with someone whose stated goal is the massacre of infidels and imposition of a theocratical world order build on subjugation of women, persecution of LGBT people, victimization narrative, and the active pursuit of martyrdom.
These values are not compatible with ours.
I would like someone to sincerely, and with a straight face, explain to me how you negotiate with someone whose stated goal is the massacre of infidels and imposition of a theocratical world order build on subjugation of women, persecution of LGBT people, victimization narrative, and the active pursuit of martyrdom.
These values are not compatible with ours.
14
I would be so thrilled if diplomacy could work in this situation. Your comment disheartens me because it reflects a mindset that is completely on equal to the challenge we are presented with now.
2
As highlighted in an Opinion piece in the NYT today, for too long Saudi Arabia has been bankrolling those "religious" forces in their own country who provide the ideology and encouragement for Islamists around the globe. Agreed that we should stop buying their oil, but they will find others more than willing to buy what we don't buy. That Saudi royal family needs to be taken down. And people like the Bushes need to be held accountable for perpetuating their favored status all these decades to further their and their friends' business interests.
11
"That Saudi royal family needs to be taken down."
Whoa! The forces ready to fill any vacuum in the Mideast are frightening to contemplate. Bush tried nation building, and look at the results.
Whoa! The forces ready to fill any vacuum in the Mideast are frightening to contemplate. Bush tried nation building, and look at the results.
4
Exactly right. Our problem is in Mecca, not Raqqa. Instead of "taking them down" however, it would be better to stop buying their oil until their water has completely run out and their temperature exceeds habitable. If that holds off as long as 2100, I ' ll be surprised.
2
The Saudis have to stop sponsoring Islamists. Way back in the late 1970s, they started sponsoring madrassas all over South Asia. Young kids were brainwashed into an Islamist worldview. While the Saudi royals continued to live a lifestyle of perfume, luxury, glam and glitz, with western nations hand kissing their palms.
2
This is not a fight between Islam and Christianity, but a fight between the Christian and Islamic culture one one side against barbarism on the other side. The barbarians abusing Islam only as a basis to legitimize their bloodlust. their problem is their impotence, they compensate by murders. their own feelings of powerlessness, they fight against, is less a religious, but a psychological and social problem. Many terrorists have not read the Koran, no one understood him. Certainly not the Saudi Wahhabism and their followers. This is a vulgar Islam for morons, this includes the self-proclaimed caliph of the Islamic State, his education like most of the Islamic clerics these days is limited to memorizing, they are more a mueezin than a iman, the tragedy of the disintegration of a once great culture
9
That may be splitting hairs a bit thin, especially when faced with individuals who have no problem beheading you if you're unable to recite a verse of the Qu'ran.
17
After each atrocity perpetrated by the Islamist terrorists, non-Muslims try their best and hardest to explain, on the Muslims' behalf, that the real Islam and real Muslims have nothing to do with these crimes. The modestly silent party is the Muslims themselves. Where are the mass denunciations, by their public means of choice? Instead, we have our strange politicians, like Clinton et al, pontificating on the Muslims' behalf. Do the Muslims have no voice on their own? What is going on? I do not need Obama/Clinton condescending explanations. I need to hear from the Muslim community itself, loud and clear, 24/7.
40
It is far more likely to find Muslims speaking out against the establishment as the source of the problem. In the minds of Muslims, Islam is never the problem, only the solution.
3
If I'd been president in 2001, I would have cut diplomatic relations with SAudi Arabia. Not only are they the source of 15 of the 9/11 terrorists, but their religious-industrial complex projects their disgusting religious sect around the world.
22
Set fire to their oilfields.
We don't need to kill a single soul to cut off their sources of the insanity of terror.
Just set fire to their oilfields and burn their petrodollars away in the smoke of their murderous insanity.
We don't need to kill a single soul to cut off their sources of the insanity of terror.
Just set fire to their oilfields and burn their petrodollars away in the smoke of their murderous insanity.
6
Burning their oil hastens the day when it is too hot to live there. And they are running out of water. Wonder what kind of software their desalination plants use? Hackivists?
All this nonsense will stop the day that we no longer need Middle Eastern oil.
6
We could not need it starting tomorrow and it wouldn't matter, so long as giant corporations want it. It was never about "need" or "dependence", it was always about the money.
6
It has been going on for 1,000 years, so no, but it would diminish the influence of the Saudis. Of course, we are funding both sides of the struggle at this point, through military assistance to false allies, and via public assistance in the US and Europe.
7
Quick - let's let in 50,000 more Muslims!
29
I think it's more accurate to say that we like to pretend that everyone is living in 2015. They aren't. In certain parts of the world, it is still the Middle Ages. It is still the Crusades. (And in our rural backwaters of America, our own conservative, uneducated Christians are perfectly happy to oblige and fight the Crusades all over again. The End of Days is coming, after all...) These people may have big weapons and cell phones, but they aren't in the 21st century yet in terms of thinking about women and religious tolerance. They aren't even in the 20th century. To deal with these people, we need to think like a medieval person.
26
Rachel, if there is no Crusaders, West would been have the same fate of Eastern Christianity unable of fight against Islamic expansion. So stop ridiculing crusaders if you are living in the west.
12
Actually the Crusades, and the crusaders were not particularly successful. They pillaged, raped, and destroyed the treasures of Constantinople.
7
The first crusade was a significant success. The states they created lasted for nearly 200 years. Subsequent crusades failed, especially the 4th.
However the crusader movement also help impel the reconquest of Spain which fell to the Moors in one battle but took 700 years to reverse.
The Crusader movement also succeeded in conquest of the Eastern Baltic, which were still pagan as late as 1200.
For nearly 500 years before the crusades, Islam had inflicted Jihad against Christianity, and in the process Christianity lost about 2/3rds of its land while launching over 400 battles and taking over a million slaves from the Southern coast of Europe back to the Middle East. The reason for the asymmetry was the doctrine of love at the core of Christianity versus the doctrine of Jihad at the core of Islam. It took Christianity nearl 500 years to kluge together and ersatz doctrine of war to provide a defense and a push back. That push back resulted in 28 battles of the crusades, and order of magnitude smaller than the violence Islam inflicted upon Christianity.
Just saying...
However the crusader movement also help impel the reconquest of Spain which fell to the Moors in one battle but took 700 years to reverse.
The Crusader movement also succeeded in conquest of the Eastern Baltic, which were still pagan as late as 1200.
For nearly 500 years before the crusades, Islam had inflicted Jihad against Christianity, and in the process Christianity lost about 2/3rds of its land while launching over 400 battles and taking over a million slaves from the Southern coast of Europe back to the Middle East. The reason for the asymmetry was the doctrine of love at the core of Christianity versus the doctrine of Jihad at the core of Islam. It took Christianity nearl 500 years to kluge together and ersatz doctrine of war to provide a defense and a push back. That push back resulted in 28 battles of the crusades, and order of magnitude smaller than the violence Islam inflicted upon Christianity.
Just saying...
2
Where is that hallowed American isolationist impulse when we need it? I mean really, why is it the only (minor) political candidate talking about the United States staying out of places like Mali, to say nothing of the positively miasmic Middle East, is…wait for it…Rand Paul? The man’s a positive doof, but let’s face it, he’s got that one right. Islam is headed for its very own Thirty Years War. And if you’ve never heard, or are only vaguely aware of that gargantuan conflict between Catholicism and Protestantism that consumed all of Central Europe for decades, maybe you should check it out on Wikipedia. We really need to stay out of the way here. Does anyone think for a minute the People’s Republic is fueling up the MIGS for sorties against Malian Islamists? Ain’t gonna happen. Beijing is way too smart for that sort of nonsense, and we could stand to take a page out of their playbook.
5
How many refugees should we allow? 10,000 100,000 1,000,000 10,000 000? What number makes you feel better? What number makes you feel safer?
15
10,000 in 2016
2
So. We bombed Afganistan, Syria, Iraq. We are trying to fight ISIS. ISIS is pretty much an official offshoot of the Wahabi Saudi Arabia - which is out bosom buddy! Why? What is stopping the civilized world to hit where it matters in war on radical Islam - oh, pardon me, the jihadism. Saudi Arabia is the jihadism's open and official supply line, and nothing, absolutely nothing is done about this fact. Obama, Clinton etc. continuously attempt to bend the reality to their weird, unexplainable line that completely excludes the elephant in the room - Saudi Arabia - from any meaningful pressure. Why? What is the story behind this idiotic exemption of the main terrorist-feeding kingdom?
11
Perhaps you are unaware of the world you inhabit, but we get some of our oil from there, and they also pressure all their OPEC friends to do the global oil trade in oil in US dollars, making ours the world's currency. That's not a boat our leaders want to rock.
5
We finally have more oil of our own than we use. USA will become a major oil exporter next year. That's the planet we live on. What about you?
7
I blame Trump and the other right-wing Republican reactionaries for fostering such intense hatred for Islam. While their violence is inexcusable, how can we blame the Muslims community for feeling under threat from the west?
3
You blame Trump et al for all of this? That is as wrongheaded as the bomb waving is on the right.
Where in God's name are the nuanced thinkers when we need the most? Where are the cool heads?
Where in God's name are the nuanced thinkers when we need the most? Where are the cool heads?
21
Why does the NY Times continue to flame the fires of animosity towards Muslims?
Literally the first sentence of the article refers to an Islamic creed. I find it incredibly irresponsible not to mention hypocritical to attribute my religion to these events.
I'm 37, Muslim, and don't have anything more than a seatbelt violation to my name, but due to articles like this and other media patterns, I'm going to be ostracized for my name and identity.
No other group in this great country of ours is subject to that from progressive channels.
Literally the first sentence of the article refers to an Islamic creed. I find it incredibly irresponsible not to mention hypocritical to attribute my religion to these events.
I'm 37, Muslim, and don't have anything more than a seatbelt violation to my name, but due to articles like this and other media patterns, I'm going to be ostracized for my name and identity.
No other group in this great country of ours is subject to that from progressive channels.
50
So many commenters are criticizing the New York Times for what they perceive as exactly the opposite behavior. What polarizing times these are.
3
I agree that the media exacerbates the problem; even the liberal media. Unfortunately, Islamic extremists are using religion as a justification for murder and that upsets people. Christianity was once used to justify killing (i.e. Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Pagan Killings, etc.). We have a short memory.
I'm sorry that you are the victim of misplaced fear and anger.
I'm sorry that you are the victim of misplaced fear and anger.
9
@Daiwa
Well. The actions pretty much speak for themselves, don't they? So, this might be a question to ask of those terrorists who continue to kill in the name of Islam, and make life difficult for mindful Muslims like yourself.
Well. The actions pretty much speak for themselves, don't they? So, this might be a question to ask of those terrorists who continue to kill in the name of Islam, and make life difficult for mindful Muslims like yourself.
16
Too many people and too few things to do. Is this the negative side of industrial revolution and hi tech? Should we slow down a bit so more people have jobs?
4
Could have more jobs right now by taxing the owners of the means of production. Too bad they own the government lock stock and barrel, isn't it?
Dead by guns or dead from lack of health care, its all the same....who can we blame. That must be the answer.
2
Why is it that people who fully understand that Christians can be Catholic Presbyterian, Methodist, LDS, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptist. etc. cannot wrap their heads around the notion that Muslim people practice faith differently as well. It is not one monolithic thing. So yes SOME participants in ISIS are religious (most of the European recruits have not been) Muslims who believe they can bring about a doomsday prophecy. But 99.9% of Muslims think they are nutjobs. And yes, the Qur'an says some crazy things, but so does the Old Testament. Doesn't mean most people of either faith feel particularly called to follow the more barbaric passages.
It is time to quit having this conversation. Time for "moderate" Muslims to stop feeling obligated to denounce barbaric nutjobs by whom they are just as disgusted as anyone else in a civilized society.
It is time to quit having this conversation. Time for "moderate" Muslims to stop feeling obligated to denounce barbaric nutjobs by whom they are just as disgusted as anyone else in a civilized society.
11
I see 99.9% thrown out quite often but that is not what the research shows. In the 2013 pew research study into global Muslim attitudes towards law and politics, om the question "Are suicide bombings ever justified" here are some results. Kosovo - 11 % yes, Turkey - 15% yes, Kyrgyzstan - 10% yes, Malaysia - 18% yes, Indonesia - 7 % yes, Afghanistan - 39% yes, Bangladesh - 26% yes, Egypt - 29% yes, Jordan - 15% yes, Tunisia - 12% yes.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
5
0.1 percentage of 1.6 billion is in the range of millions of people. There are more than 20 Muslim majority countries which kills people if they reject Islam. Almost all Muslim majority countries have some kind of restrictions to practice other religions. So what exactly is civilized means?. Mocking Christianity for Islamic terrorism is same like killing Christians in Africa for Charlie Hebdo cartoon, the latter which actually happened.
6
None of those other forms of Chrisitanity are going around and committing hundreds of murderous acts. Constantly murdering other people who are different from you is a pretty extreme act that requires attention.
11
And Obama will be at the Environmental meeting in Paris - priorities don't make sense anymore either
12
I am glad he is there. Climate change will kill us all before the terrorists do.
20
Did you not read that the agenda has been altered?or is any opportunity to attack Obama just too good to pass up, the facts not withstanding?
6
I am surprised to see that Islamic terrorists attack in Muslim majority countries were reported in NY times main page news. After Paris attack there were complaints that the terrorists attack in Islamic countries were not giving enough attention. Well, NYtimes should be careful because if these kinds of terrorist attack gives enough importance, Islamic sympathizers will then say they are trying to defame Islam. The problem with the Islamic community in general is they find faults in anything and everything. Islamic teaching needs to undergo a radical change for the betterment of humanity.
13
Sounds like an organized crime franchise to me. A worldwide extortion racket.
9
My world feels unsafe. My world feels shaky. I feel disoriented.
Somehow, though, I know that these events are planned precisely to make me feel this way. In fact, terrorists probably derive more satisfaction from knowing they have shaken the world of the living than from ending the lives of innocent human beings.
So, I'll say it: ISIS and its allies have shaken me.
But there something else I know, even as I shake.
After the shaking comes our focus, our resolve, our rage.
And then, as we have always done, we do what we have to do.
Somehow, though, I know that these events are planned precisely to make me feel this way. In fact, terrorists probably derive more satisfaction from knowing they have shaken the world of the living than from ending the lives of innocent human beings.
So, I'll say it: ISIS and its allies have shaken me.
But there something else I know, even as I shake.
After the shaking comes our focus, our resolve, our rage.
And then, as we have always done, we do what we have to do.
3
I've been feeling the same, not so much for myself but for my sister, brother-in-law and niece in DC. When I heard that ISIS had issued a threat against DC I thought all day whether I should succumb to fear and ask my sister to just be a little more careful, and I didn't want to, but then I realized wanting to say that comes entirely from love, and so I did.
I gave the caveat that I know we aren't to be controlled by fear, but I didn't want to not say anything, and she understood it as a message of love. It sounds to me like you love this world you live in and should just continue to cherish it.
I gave the caveat that I know we aren't to be controlled by fear, but I didn't want to not say anything, and she understood it as a message of love. It sounds to me like you love this world you live in and should just continue to cherish it.
5
I heard an interview with an American NPR correspondent, living in France, who had been reading Harry Potter books with her young son. When she told him about the Paris attack, he asked if it was like Voldemort and the death eaters. She said "yes". I've thought about that. It is true - these terrorists are like death eaters - they have no life inside themselves. They are empty human beings, angry at those who enjoy music, food, shopping, free speech, their families, worshiping a god or not, dancing, pets, walking, work..... and just living their lives. These death eaters are led by psychopaths that feed on the misery and fear they create in innocent women, men, and children. They believe in nothing and are only interested in destroying what other find beautiful and good. What pathetic creatures they are.
25
Excellent analogy. Now we have to figure out our best patronus.
6
There is a level of denial and self-delusion among NYT readers that is amusing at one level. It must be us evil Americans who are forcing them to do these deeds, or it's poverty. Something or the other is forcing them to commit these heinous acts. Forget the fact that vast numbers of Muslims and non-Muslims living in far worse poverty and more hopeless conditions in Africa and Asia do not resort to violence. In fact, most terror attacks are carried out by middle-class youth.
These folks have convinced themselves that Islam has absolutely nothing to the fact that 90% or more of mass murders by non-state actors (including guerrilla insurgencies) is done in the name of Islam whose followers comprise only about 22% of the world population. No amount of logic and reason will dissuade these folks.
For others, a reading of the Pew Research report (link below) may be informative.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
Pew should do another poll among Muslims worldwide. Ask for their opinion about the broad goals of ISIS without mentioning ISIS itself, or the means of attaining those goals. Ask about their opinion on HOW to deal with gays, women's freedom, same-sex marriage, freedom of worship of non-Muslims in majority-Muslim countries, etc. etc. Then let's have a discussion.
These folks have convinced themselves that Islam has absolutely nothing to the fact that 90% or more of mass murders by non-state actors (including guerrilla insurgencies) is done in the name of Islam whose followers comprise only about 22% of the world population. No amount of logic and reason will dissuade these folks.
For others, a reading of the Pew Research report (link below) may be informative.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-...
Pew should do another poll among Muslims worldwide. Ask for their opinion about the broad goals of ISIS without mentioning ISIS itself, or the means of attaining those goals. Ask about their opinion on HOW to deal with gays, women's freedom, same-sex marriage, freedom of worship of non-Muslims in majority-Muslim countries, etc. etc. Then let's have a discussion.
38
I read an editorial in The Sydney Morning Herald last week, after the horror last Friday in France.
The editorial can be summed up in one word; "Daesh". Th editorial effectively say, the world gives ISIS legitimacy by calling it "ISIS", and not calling it by what it is in Arabic; "Daesh".
The media, the politicians, and everyone else should start using this term referring to these people; that is what they are; "Daesh"
So, what does it mean?
The word – which is essentially an acronym for the Arabic phrase, al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham – is also used as a reference for ISIS, ISIL and Islamic State. However, it isn’t something that ISIS likes to be called. According to Mirror.co.uk, it is because it sounds similar to another word, “Daes” – which means “one who crushes something underfoot” – and “Dahes” – which means “one who sows discord.”
from: http://www.morningnewsusa.com/daesh-meaning-what-does-daesh-mean-why-doe...
It is an insult. and rightfully so. They are dogs, the low of the low, and do not deserve to be referred to as a nation, but as Daesh".
Thank you New York Times for this article; it is a starting point:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-...®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article
The editorial can be summed up in one word; "Daesh". Th editorial effectively say, the world gives ISIS legitimacy by calling it "ISIS", and not calling it by what it is in Arabic; "Daesh".
The media, the politicians, and everyone else should start using this term referring to these people; that is what they are; "Daesh"
So, what does it mean?
The word – which is essentially an acronym for the Arabic phrase, al-Dawla al-Islamiya al-Iraq al-Sham – is also used as a reference for ISIS, ISIL and Islamic State. However, it isn’t something that ISIS likes to be called. According to Mirror.co.uk, it is because it sounds similar to another word, “Daes” – which means “one who crushes something underfoot” – and “Dahes” – which means “one who sows discord.”
from: http://www.morningnewsusa.com/daesh-meaning-what-does-daesh-mean-why-doe...
It is an insult. and rightfully so. They are dogs, the low of the low, and do not deserve to be referred to as a nation, but as Daesh".
Thank you New York Times for this article; it is a starting point:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-...®ion=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article
17
Agreed. "ISIS" comes across as some technobabble-marketing-speak branding. Give it a rest already.
3
a new Washington Post-ABC News poll:
-- a majority believe the country is at war with “radical Islam.”
-- 83% of registered voters believe a terrorist attack in the US w/ large casualties is "likely" in the near future... up from 73% in a Quinnipiac poll 2 weeks ago.
-- 40% say a major attack in the US is “very likely,” up 8% since the Paris attacks, and the highest since 2005 tube bombings in London.
-- a majority believe the country is at war with “radical Islam.”
-- 83% of registered voters believe a terrorist attack in the US w/ large casualties is "likely" in the near future... up from 73% in a Quinnipiac poll 2 weeks ago.
-- 40% say a major attack in the US is “very likely,” up 8% since the Paris attacks, and the highest since 2005 tube bombings in London.
10
Religion has been used as an excuse from time immemorial to justify aggression and violence. I do not think these terrorist have any idea of the religion to which they claim to belong. They are too young for that. This is a brain washing phenomenon of monstrous proportions as we witnessed in Nazi Germany and fascist Italy before the WWII.
8
Religion is brainwashing. My parents told me that there was a Santa Claus and an Easter bunny. I figured out that there was not. Then I figured out that the invisible guy in the sky was a fairy tale as well. At least Santa was Jolly and the Easter bunny cuddly. God not so much.
16
It would be interesting to know your explanation of the miracle cures of Rita Klauss, Colleen Willard, and Jake Finkbonner in recent years, 1%. Medical science says: "Inexplicable."
3
Once again, no one paid attention to discussions of young, angry, unemployed young men that was outlined in the 9/11 Report. Read the stats of the members of these groups.
2
Why isn't this horrific attack, killings, and hostage situation getting the constant global coverage that the Paris attacks got?
6
Are you kidding? I have had the cable news channels going all day, switching among them. The coverage has been nonstop.
4
Neither Christians nor Jews shout "Allahu Akbar". The non descript "gunmen" are actually Radical Islamic Terrorists. We have no chance of winning a war against them unless we identify them.
35
"It was not immediately clear who was responsible for the attack in Mali."
Did you not even read the article - they are not sure what GROUP did it.
What exactly does "Radical Islamic Terrorists" mean, except that it is a dog-whistle for hate-filled, cowardly conservatives. It's nothing law enforcement or military can go after - they go after named groups. Lose the useless fixation ...
What group did we identify when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah building? When Eric Rudolph bombed the Atlanta Olympics, murdering innocents and embarrassing the U.S? That was just random violence in your world, right?
Did you not even read the article - they are not sure what GROUP did it.
What exactly does "Radical Islamic Terrorists" mean, except that it is a dog-whistle for hate-filled, cowardly conservatives. It's nothing law enforcement or military can go after - they go after named groups. Lose the useless fixation ...
What group did we identify when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah building? When Eric Rudolph bombed the Atlanta Olympics, murdering innocents and embarrassing the U.S? That was just random violence in your world, right?
1
Listening to the various police commissioners lament the lack of manpower available to patrol, perhaps it's time to call on the national guard to assist law enforcement in patrolling and guarding our national treasures, our cities, against these kinds of attacks.
1
The Mali incident was a spinoff of the Libyan debacle. Eliminating Qaddafi was a strategic and human blunder. NATO empowered these goons and murderers.
Time, we in the West, stop overthrowing governments. It makes the world much more unsafe for those of us not in a position to receive round the clock security.
We are made vulnerable to the policies of London, Paris and Washington.
Time, we in the West, stop overthrowing governments. It makes the world much more unsafe for those of us not in a position to receive round the clock security.
We are made vulnerable to the policies of London, Paris and Washington.
5
This is the same qaddafi we alleged was responsible for the Lockerbie/Pan Am bombing, that ronald reagan repeatedly bombed in an attempt to get rid of him. The bad dictator ... now, he is a darling of the right?
1
I know this much: the next time Obama says to avoid going to Las Vegas, I'm gonna take him seriously. No line in the sand needed! As a lame duck, he gains nothing from baseless fear-mongering, after all.
3
Don't blame religion. In fact the question of where to place the blame is itself unhelpful. What's needed is a solution, any solution, to how to reduce the violence.
Start talking about blame then one can easily trace it back to colonialism. What actual good does that do to people alive today trying to stay alive?
Start talking about blame then one can easily trace it back to colonialism. What actual good does that do to people alive today trying to stay alive?
5
Islamic groups have been trying to over-run Europe since well before the Colonial Era. Islamic armies conquered the eastern half of the Roman Empire (Turkey), Bosnia, Spain, Greece, most of the Middle East (which was largely Coptic Christian at the time), parts of North Africa, and very nearly conquered France and Austria. The Crusades were a reaction to the Islamic invasions. The Islamic armies both started and won the Crusades. One could make the argument that much of what we think of as European aggression in the Colonial Era is Europe's reaction to devastating attacks from the South and East.
We are looking at a clash of cultures that has been happening for a thousand years.
We are looking at a clash of cultures that has been happening for a thousand years.
31
Again. If one declares a religious war --'jihad'-- it is hard to take the religious factor out of it.
5
Obama and those who like to apologize publicly for all the problems of the West, are they going to ask one day to the Saudis, Iranians, Palestinians, and all kinds of Muslims, to apologize for their history of horror, war, slavery, oppression, misery and ignorance, or is guilt an exclusively Christian and Jewish state of mind?
36
There are millions of good Muslims throughout the world. There are millions of evil Muslims throughout the world. Some commentors have said that the evil Muslims are a miniscule number. Maybe a miniscule percentage, but way more than enough to cause enormous trouble in every part of the world.
14
Actually, not even every part of the world. Muslims so far have caused no trouble whatsoever in Central America, South America, the Arctic, Antarctica, Japan, Southeast Asia (except Indonesia), pretty much all the Pacific islands, and so on. But anyway, relating all Muslims to the terrorists is always flawed, as it's akin to saying all Christians are basically KKK members.
Not only that, they don't cause enormous trouble. The death toll from Islamic terrorists is nothing compared to the death toll from environmental poisons caused by industry. And their attacks are completely insignificant compared to the destruction soon to come from climate change.
Not only that, they don't cause enormous trouble. The death toll from Islamic terrorists is nothing compared to the death toll from environmental poisons caused by industry. And their attacks are completely insignificant compared to the destruction soon to come from climate change.
6
The KKK and its ilk are tiny, marginalized groups. Fundamentalist, militant Islam is hugely popular in some parts of the Islamic world, and sympathized with by even some well educated Westernized Muslims. There are 1.8 Billion Muslims on the planet, so if even 10 or 20% are inclined to a violent ideology, this is a much bigger problem than that posed by some ignorant losers who like to wear sheets.
30
Saying that death toll from attacks is nothing compared to some others causes is just a blinded distraction. If the organized group's specific purpose is to kill you and if that group is right now actively and extremely seriously planning to murder your family you must protect your loved ones. Saying what's the big deal, environmental poisons kill more is just an abstract posturing pretending not to care about the death of the real people whom you love.
And by the way, AGW is a bogus also directed to distract people's attention and a vehicle to play a game of good guys fighting for the noble cause.
And by the way, AGW is a bogus also directed to distract people's attention and a vehicle to play a game of good guys fighting for the noble cause.
1
Maybe if some of these disenfranchised populations would stop having large numbers of offspring they could improve their situation.
24
That's not the main problem, because of the gaping cultural divide of which that is only part. But still, you are right in your assertion.
4
But Investor, why then do Germany and France (and Japan especially) have official Govt. campaigns underway to reverse their negative birth rates, even as the Muslims intentionally have large families in Europe, as illegal aliens do in America.
1
During which periods of history was Islam a "religion of peace"?
Muslims themselves are admitting that they were slaughtering each other for centuries - most of them don't like each other to this day. Foreigners are easier to distinguish - and easier targets, given that almost every attack follows a generous inflow of money from the West ("pay us or we'll kill you").
And what exactly was the "Arab Spring"?
And why didn't most other nations in history engaged in war, retaliate afterwards with terrorist attacks?
And why isn't poor India engaged in international terrorism?
Muslims themselves are admitting that they were slaughtering each other for centuries - most of them don't like each other to this day. Foreigners are easier to distinguish - and easier targets, given that almost every attack follows a generous inflow of money from the West ("pay us or we'll kill you").
And what exactly was the "Arab Spring"?
And why didn't most other nations in history engaged in war, retaliate afterwards with terrorist attacks?
And why isn't poor India engaged in international terrorism?
42
You could ask the same of Christianity, which was certainly not about peace for most of its history. It has become more peaceful thanks to the liberalization of Western societies through secularism.
3
Ok - but do we need to go through another 500-year-long "dark ages" until these people see the light as well?
2
There was a recent article in the New Yorker about the "threshold" theory of why school shootings spread; it seems equally applicable here.
There have also been many articles about the hopelessness of the lives of so many of these young men, and the correlation between the propensity of communities to produce young men who commit this type of violence, with the lack of opportunity and hope.
Both of these concepts keep coming to mind in reading about all these events.
There have also been many articles about the hopelessness of the lives of so many of these young men, and the correlation between the propensity of communities to produce young men who commit this type of violence, with the lack of opportunity and hope.
Both of these concepts keep coming to mind in reading about all these events.
7
We have plenty of young men in American living with hopelessness. They are not blowing up concert venues and shopping malls. It must be the religion thing, or perhaps the funding thing, or both.
6
Beirut, Paris, Bamako.........
If Bamako is vulnerable, the Petting Zoo in Kansas City that received 9/11 security funding should be very very very concerned.
The world needs to be Flogging Mali! Bomb the stuff out of em. Get all the Christians outta there. No fly or mosquito zone!!! And let;s stop processing refugee requests. It's just COMMON SENSE.
Since it's just Mali: 5000 pair of military footwear filled with volunteer warriors are needed!!
If Bamako is vulnerable, the Petting Zoo in Kansas City that received 9/11 security funding should be very very very concerned.
The world needs to be Flogging Mali! Bomb the stuff out of em. Get all the Christians outta there. No fly or mosquito zone!!! And let;s stop processing refugee requests. It's just COMMON SENSE.
Since it's just Mali: 5000 pair of military footwear filled with volunteer warriors are needed!!
@MauiYankee
Sorry. I couldn't disagree with you more. And for every reason you have stated.
Simply because that would not only result in a massive loss of human life, it would destroy a country with a rich historical past. We've already lost Palmyra to ISIS. That's enough. I would also suggest that you Google Mali. It was once, like Egypt, one of the Great African Kingdoms with an advanced civilization.
Sorry. I couldn't disagree with you more. And for every reason you have stated.
Simply because that would not only result in a massive loss of human life, it would destroy a country with a rich historical past. We've already lost Palmyra to ISIS. That's enough. I would also suggest that you Google Mali. It was once, like Egypt, one of the Great African Kingdoms with an advanced civilization.
5
“We don’t want to scare our people, but we have already said that Mali will have to get used to situations like this,” President Ibrahim Boubacar Keita of Mali,..."
Oh, who told him that? Obama?
Oh, who told him that? Obama?
11
I wonder how many Obama critics can find Mali on a map?
13
You're thinkin' of Maui, huh?
3
JoeSixPack ... couldn't be less the republican members of congress, or the presidential candidate clown car. Wait, ask Ben Carson, I hear he is a master of geography ...
1
Sometimes, it is rational to sacrifice the well-being of one generation in order to preserve a civilization that has taken millennia to build, not least for the future generations. When you encounter a force that is a threat not to a region but to human civilization itself, you must resist with all that you have.
After the Iraq fiasco I share the nation's reluctance to send more of our good men and women into harm's way, but this is what our formidable army is for: defend our civilization. ISIS is not a group that can be contained, let alone appeased, and the problem extends past them to Boko Haram (responsible for more deaths than ISIS), the many Al Qaeda groupings, and even Hamas and Palestinian Jihad.
This is a global problem, and if you don't see it you're in denial. The civilized world must show these terrorists what we're made of. Yes, their apocalyptic nihilism comes from some fundamental despair linked to lack of opportunity and an unmoored identity, but you know what? It makes no difference why they got to be this way, anymore than we weighed by many Germans became Nazis in the 1930s. The time for that discussion is once the threat is defeated; you then rebuild and stabilize with a policy of enlightened self-interest à la Marshall Plan.
We defeated the Nazis, for goodness' sake. We can take this on. More importantly, we have no choice. We owe it to each other.
After the Iraq fiasco I share the nation's reluctance to send more of our good men and women into harm's way, but this is what our formidable army is for: defend our civilization. ISIS is not a group that can be contained, let alone appeased, and the problem extends past them to Boko Haram (responsible for more deaths than ISIS), the many Al Qaeda groupings, and even Hamas and Palestinian Jihad.
This is a global problem, and if you don't see it you're in denial. The civilized world must show these terrorists what we're made of. Yes, their apocalyptic nihilism comes from some fundamental despair linked to lack of opportunity and an unmoored identity, but you know what? It makes no difference why they got to be this way, anymore than we weighed by many Germans became Nazis in the 1930s. The time for that discussion is once the threat is defeated; you then rebuild and stabilize with a policy of enlightened self-interest à la Marshall Plan.
We defeated the Nazis, for goodness' sake. We can take this on. More importantly, we have no choice. We owe it to each other.
13
"but this is what our formidable army is for: defend our civilization."
No, it's there to defend our country, not be sent out for its members to be killed, maimed, broken by some chicken hawks.
No, it's there to defend our country, not be sent out for its members to be killed, maimed, broken by some chicken hawks.
3
The film footage I saw on Al Jazeera and the BBC showed a large number of men ("hostages") with briefcases being escorted out by soldiers.
I'm waiting for someone in The Media to please explain how Mali is a popular tourist attraction for foreigners. There is desert, some more desert, and then an ugly view of an awful lot of shanty houses just on the outskirts of the Radisson Blu Hotel, almost bragging about its capitalist wealth just by its presence.
Mali has been on the list of countries to which Americans should not travel for quite some time for security reasons
.
So why were there Turks, Indians, Chinese, French, Belgian (newsy these days, aren't they), UK, and "12 - 15 Americans" there? Oh yes, Mali is rich in something like gold.
I'm waiting for someone in The Media to please explain how Mali is a popular tourist attraction for foreigners. There is desert, some more desert, and then an ugly view of an awful lot of shanty houses just on the outskirts of the Radisson Blu Hotel, almost bragging about its capitalist wealth just by its presence.
Mali has been on the list of countries to which Americans should not travel for quite some time for security reasons
.
So why were there Turks, Indians, Chinese, French, Belgian (newsy these days, aren't they), UK, and "12 - 15 Americans" there? Oh yes, Mali is rich in something like gold.
4
My understanding is that the foreigners who go to that unstable landlocked African nation are there for business, not pleasure.
14
You missed one article where they said the hotel was hosting diplomats/negotiators who were in the country to help broker a peace treaty among the civil war factions.
14
The foreign business people are there to exploit the nation's natural resources, take the money and leave.
8
The article only obliquely mentions what religion the terrorists are taking inspiration from. I would just like to ask... how many Indian Hindus, American Methodists, Chinese atheists, French Catholics, or Japanese Buddhists have committed terrorist acts?
There are 1.25 billion Catholics and I do not know of a single terrorist act in the last half millennium.
Nor do I hear among the 1 billion Hindus those waging holy war.
But I thought there were bad apples in each and every religion? Wouldn't that mean the 3/4 of the world that's not Muslim would perpetrate a terrorist massacre every few days?
There are 1.25 billion Catholics and I do not know of a single terrorist act in the last half millennium.
Nor do I hear among the 1 billion Hindus those waging holy war.
But I thought there were bad apples in each and every religion? Wouldn't that mean the 3/4 of the world that's not Muslim would perpetrate a terrorist massacre every few days?
22
Terrrorism is defined in the dictionary as "the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims."
The term "political aims" is the very definition of most religions.
The term "political aims" is the very definition of most religions.
1
Leesey --
Actually, the opposite is true of most religions. Islam, as set forth by the words of the Koran, is an exception.
Actually, the opposite is true of most religions. Islam, as set forth by the words of the Koran, is an exception.
1
There were plenty of religious "terrorists" in the last half millennium , Catholics in the New World , the Spanish Inquisition , the Portugues Auto Da Fe, Protestant Dutch in the Spice Islands, St. Bartholmew's day massaces , Northern Ireland, the "For God and Country" Brits who were Methodists , Church of England and Presbyterians followers all over the world , the Puritans in the New World, ... to name a few.
3
There may not be any rational justification for the brutal violence against innocent people, but trying to understand what motivates a human being to murder someone they do not know while taking their own lives. The more rational among them must know that such crimes will neither build their society or destroy the ones they dislike.
1
The poor never rise up. The leaders of terrorist movements are always people of means that want to take over from whoever is at the top of the pile. The Bin Laden family was the second wealthiest family in Saudi Arabia, for example. Some of the 9/11 bombers, and many of the terrorists that have struck Europe since then have had free housing, free college education, free health care, free food, and so forth. The young people in Europe and America going to going Isis are not destitute.
Imposing some sort of Marxist Analysis does not work in this scenario. These terrorists have chosen to cherry pick the most archaic, violence oriented passages in the Koran to justify their thirst for power and conflict, and then ignored all the moderating messages in their scripture. They are not the oppressed, they are the oppressors.
Imposing some sort of Marxist Analysis does not work in this scenario. These terrorists have chosen to cherry pick the most archaic, violence oriented passages in the Koran to justify their thirst for power and conflict, and then ignored all the moderating messages in their scripture. They are not the oppressed, they are the oppressors.
27
The rapid maturation and sophistication of internet services worldwide has benefitted those willing and capable of terrorism..also the poor and disaffected can clearly see the wealth gap between the poor and rich regions exacerbating resentment and extremism. The bombastic nativism and calls for ' boots on the ground' from our right wing and under educated strike me as sad and even worse, dangerous.
4
Reading the first 20 or so comments here, it seems to me that everyone is missing the point of the exercise. Anglo-American agents want to stage an attack in the States and get Patriot Act on Steroids going. That is the purpose of this attack in Mali. A dozen or so Americans will be murdered. Then the CIA types and their spin doctors will study the reaction of people in the States in order to fine tune the attack in the States. "Conspiracy theorist!" Well, I just look at the results -- the cui bono stuff -- and then come up with an hypothesis which will predict the next events. If that's conspiracy theorizing, I suppose Black Holes are too.
1
I read this twice, but it still doesn't make any sense to me in the slightest.
8
These attacks are the result of endemic structural disparities in economic standards of living. In the absence of legitimate state mechanisms in Middle Eastern and other Muslim countries, Islamist terrorists are acting as vigilante movements trying to equalize power relations with the "West." Under normal circumstances this would be done at the state level, through war.
The origins of these issues is in colonialism's history and the skewed economic, political and educational structures it left in its aftermath. London, Paris, Madrid etc., were built on the transfer of resources from the colonized third world. Any solution to Islamic terrorism must take that into the equation.
The origins of these issues is in colonialism's history and the skewed economic, political and educational structures it left in its aftermath. London, Paris, Madrid etc., were built on the transfer of resources from the colonized third world. Any solution to Islamic terrorism must take that into the equation.
2
...and yet the over 1 million Hindu Indians living in England (think East India Company and British Raj) haven't committed a single terrorist attack.
10
To CharlesLevell: Apples and oranges. India does not have the oil supplies that the West craves, so it was left alone to build its own internal political structure i can't think of any single Indian leader that the West casued to be deposed, assassinated, removed or otherwise undermined - and neither can you. This allowed India to put its Colonial period mostly behind it. Plus its size is too unwieldy to be controlled by outsiders.
In any case, India has had its own share of internal strife, mostly driven by ethnic and religious passions. Just because the victims of terrorism (whether it is perpetrated by individuals or sponsored at the state level) are not in the West does not mean it's not terrorism. The language of the debate and its assumptions are themselves part of the problem.
Incidentally, there are more than 10 million Muslims in Europe that, like those Hindus, who have not committed a single terrorist attack. I wonder what would happen if we started judging all Israel's citizens by the terrorism of its founding fathers.
In any case, India has had its own share of internal strife, mostly driven by ethnic and religious passions. Just because the victims of terrorism (whether it is perpetrated by individuals or sponsored at the state level) are not in the West does not mean it's not terrorism. The language of the debate and its assumptions are themselves part of the problem.
Incidentally, there are more than 10 million Muslims in Europe that, like those Hindus, who have not committed a single terrorist attack. I wonder what would happen if we started judging all Israel's citizens by the terrorism of its founding fathers.
1
This is a copycat act. What happened in Paris was a twisted inspiration for these goons. They just couldn't sit back and watch some other group be the only violent actor against France. Which just goes to show that militia cells are not about politics, and certainly not about religion. They are just pathetic cases of metastasized testosterone.
5
To agree with your conclusion is to conclude that there is no way to address this.
3
Have we demonstrated that we are a perfectible species?
1
@joymars
Not exactly. There's no doubt that all of these Islamic terrorists groups have their daggers out for France. And this attack was part of an overall plan, not just a copy of it. The destabilization of Mali would not only upend the French military presence there, it would also open up the rest of the African continent to radical Islam. Very scary thought.
Not exactly. There's no doubt that all of these Islamic terrorists groups have their daggers out for France. And this attack was part of an overall plan, not just a copy of it. The destabilization of Mali would not only upend the French military presence there, it would also open up the rest of the African continent to radical Islam. Very scary thought.
2
It seems that the feisty frat-brat attitude and culture of such terrorist groups is a big attraction for young guys with nothing to lose. They're trying for their "15-minutes of fame" any-which-way, while releasing lots of of toxic testosterone-driven energy. They are funded to do their terror. Who can stop the flow of funds to global terrorist organizations and how?
2
Oh no! Did we hurt the terrorists' feelings? Let's not jump to any conclusions! Can we get them anything? Is there any way we can pay a ransom? Clearly we just need to sit down and have a heart-to-heart.
22
It appears that there are probably only 2 states in these third-world countries- brutal dictatorship or chaos. Our dream of having democracies in these nations continues to be dashed. It is a cycle- as one dictator falls, chaos ensues and then back to dictatorship. Yet we, as Americans, continue to believe that democracy is likely to take root in any country under any condition. By now, we have to recognize that these third-world countries are unlikely to have citizens such as the American colonists in the 1770s or among these citizens exist the greats like Hamilton, Franklin, Washington, etc. The American experience was the exception, not the rule.
9
I think these countries do have great democratic ideologists. However, what makes the American colonies different from the Middle East are commodities and who controls the trade of the commodity. The commodities of the colonies (i.e. fur, cotton, tobacco, wheat) were produced mainly by individual farmers under a free trade system. The commodities of the middle east (predominantly oil, gas) are owned by multinational corporations who pay the nation's dictator/royal family a cut of the proceeds in order to do business.
5
Mali's democracy was fine until they were attacked by terrorists. It has a weak state and is poor, and thus the terrorists can have a disproportionate affect on the country--not that the vast majority of Malians aren't supporters of democracy.
1
If being Poor makes you a murderer, then why haven't the poor in the Appalachians become terrorists? Or the poor in the Barrios in Los Angeles? Or the poor in Mumbai? Or the poor in central Russia? Or the poor in France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and every other nation on the planet? Why are we excusing those of Muslim speaking nations? If being poor means that you will become a murderer than the march of civilization throughout history would never had advanced. Using the "skewed logic of disenfranchisement the poor would have killed everyone that lived a little better than they did. It is illogical to suggest that being poor makes you less human. The Muslim world has legitimate grievances with their own leaders as well as the west. Their leaders have done little to give the majority of their people skills needed to prosper in a modern world. The first discovery of oil in the middle east was in 1908. I would venture to say that trillions and trillions of dollars have been made since that time. Where are the roads? The great Universities, health centers, tech centers, water systems, food production? I see gleaming cities meant for the fabulously wealthy of the World Community, And, Ski Resorts in the desert for the Princes. This is not the Wests fault. This is greed in any language and culture. But, according to the logic presented by some on this board, anyone in any country seeing the gulf between that reality and their own makes them a murderer?
23
nobody forces anyone to buy mideast oil
1
I'm at such a loss for words now other than to wish all you good people out there safety and peace and peace of mind as well. These horrors are just getting really overwhelming so I beseech all of our leadership to act with courage, decisiveness and not forget the end goals; to leave us with a world where all benefit and are none are marginalized. Now let's figure out how to put an end to this madness. Good luck to us all.
2
the news crawl: "15 oil facilities and 525 oil trucks under ISIS control were destroyed last week, depriving ISIS of $1.5 million in daily income." Cutting the head off the snake. A PBS Frontline show this week on the Afghani Taliban switching to ISIS showed they did so for the higher pay ISIS offers.
5
Show me a man who has to settle a problem with a gun and I'll show you a coward.
7
How insightful!
2
Problem: Someone is threatening/attempting to kill or maim me. Being the coward I am, I strenuously object to being mugged, so I'll defend myself with a gun. I so admire those brave soles who (unarmed) stand up to criminals and negotiate their fate. They are the real heroes, perhaps dead or injured, but heroes nonetheless.
3
There are 3,000 troops in 5 African countries in and around Mali, the TV news said. Expect to see that surge, the territory is vast, and there are other terror groups in the western Sahara.
2
I meant to note: French troops.
2
Although I'm not a fan of the Bushes, we cannot blame this mess on them. The Bushes just took advantage of the situation. All this terrorism escalated with the success of the 9/11 attack. These hoodlums, or terrorists, are just bored individuals who are looking for thrills and use religion as an excuse. Hollywood might be more to blame for out-of-control globalism with the violence it spreads. What is terrifying is that the west will start losing all the freedoms it has fought for all once the culture changes with an increasing population that does not understand, nor wants to, Western values. Westerners are very naïve to believe they can change the world.
4
Bush's lie-based war was accelerant thrown on a flickering flame. There is rarely only one proper target for blame.
3
Obama, Kerry, Hilary - they all seem to value feelings over saving lives. We know they value feelings, because they will not concede that there is any, let alone near 100%, correlation between these terrorist murderers and some extreme, and likely misinterpreted, version of Islam. Yeah I guess the truth hurts. Is that offensive? Does that fact hurt some people's feelings? I guess it does. But if our own leaders cannot even identify a spade as a spade, trite as that sounds, then we will never, ever, make progress against the root of this terrorist murderer problem - which - dare I say, is somehow, someway rooted somewhere deep down in some lonely corner of Islam. There I said it. Dont mean to hurt feelings. But I also don't like seeing innocent people murdered. Therefore I want to expand the dialogue here so that we don't ignore crucial themes in the narrative. This way, we can maybe some day prevent such killings and or exterminate those that commit them. But until we relax on the PC silliness, we are in big trouble.
19
What you read as "feelings" is actually diplomacy. Sorry if the long years of the US policy being blithering idiocy between 2000 - 2008 made you forget what diplomacy is, but rejoice - intelligence in the White House since then has restored the US' standing around the world as a real power to reckon with and not a bunch of frat boys being stupid.
5
Real power? Not sure that's true. Did we show "real power" when Assad crossed Obama's "red line" on chemical weapons? How about when we couldn't even negotiate the freeing of American prisoners in Iran as a part of Obama and Kerry's mastermind deal there? Or when Edward Snowden commits one of the most harmful security breaches in history and we cannot compel his foreign hosts to turn him in? Or was it when Chris Stevens our Ambassador in Lybia was murdered and we did nothing to protect him or bring the killers to justice? Or maybe its the relentless corporate secret theft that China commits every day against US businesses and continues unchecked. Yes - we are totally displaying "real power" right now.
6
Just what did you expect when you elect a "community organizer" with no credible provenance? As least with Hillary you know what you will get; a foreign policy hawk with her allegiance to the MIC and her masters on Wall Street.
1
Reference to the rivalry between Qaeda and the Islamic State is particularly troubling.
"Qaeda supporters quickly praised the attack, with one even saying that the Islamic State “should learn a thing or two,” reflecting the rivalry between the two groups."
"Qaeda supporters quickly praised the attack, with one even saying that the Islamic State “should learn a thing or two,” reflecting the rivalry between the two groups."
3
I sense a tail wagging a dog.
2
The war on terrorism is not a 6 months or 1 year war. And it should not be viewed with a 4 year presidential lens either. U.S never had a long term view about the countries it helped 'liberated'. No follow up. Prepare with a 10 or 15 year view on how to eradicate religious fundamentalism from the troubled regions of Middle East.
ISIS/Al-Qaeda is an idea. An idea has to be fought at intellectual level.
Education is the key. 'Bomb' the region with education. Lift people up so that their horizons become broader. Of course, this doesn't gel with corporate agenda. They are only interested in 'rebuilding' contracts. Who cares about the human side of things?
ISIS/Al-Qaeda is an idea. An idea has to be fought at intellectual level.
Education is the key. 'Bomb' the region with education. Lift people up so that their horizons become broader. Of course, this doesn't gel with corporate agenda. They are only interested in 'rebuilding' contracts. Who cares about the human side of things?
2
Isn't that what we have spent a dozen years trying to do in Afghanistan? Build stable institutions, promote education, promote the public welfare? Can't you see why people may have lost their belief in this approach?
6
Mali is twice the size of Texas. And Texas is our largest state, in ego and in territory. Tuareg tribes and Govt. vs. Islamists have riven Mali for over a decade. Right away the problem is obvious: the country is too large to govern different tribes, and religions, and natural resources. It was the same in Darfur: an Arab north, vs. an African Christian/animist south. Intractable.
1
You may want to recheck which is our largest state.
12
Another product of our public school system.
7
It is desperation pure and simple.
These folks when they get to the Pearly Gates may find a God asking:
"So, I gave you a beautiful body and a wonderful life, and you -what?- blew it up and shot it up --and others too--Explain?!?"
(Would not want to have to field that question; there is no good answer.
A rude awaking awaits.)
These folks when they get to the Pearly Gates may find a God asking:
"So, I gave you a beautiful body and a wonderful life, and you -what?- blew it up and shot it up --and others too--Explain?!?"
(Would not want to have to field that question; there is no good answer.
A rude awaking awaits.)
2
Anyone in the U.S. who is seen carrying a gun and who is not in police uniform immediately should be considered a potential terrorist.
"Open carry" laws in some states may give people the legal right to be in public places with guns, but common sense in all states gives people not only the right but the obligation to avoid the potential shooters.
"Open carry" laws in some states may give people the legal right to be in public places with guns, but common sense in all states gives people not only the right but the obligation to avoid the potential shooters.
4
Rising violent terrorism around the world will only strengthen the hand of the NRA and other forces within the US favoring unlimited access to firearms for all. That is the reality.
We live in the OK Corral, and it's not going to change. I'm with Bill Maher on this one – – let's stop wasting time discussing it, because it will never, ever change. If Sandy Hook didn't change it, nothing will. We have not even managed to pass the languishing bill refusing I'm firearms to potential terrorist on our no-fly list. It's the thin edge of the wedge, our NRA-owned politicians tell us. Just like they did when defending the right of blind people to buy guns. Suspected terrorists? Blind people!? The war is over, and the gun lobby is unconditionally victorious.
So what should good, rational, non-violent people do? Buy some guns and get training. Sooner rather than later. Right now, other than hunters, our 150 million plus privately owned guns are in the hands of criminals and angry, paranoid, potentially unstable people.
So, good Americans, please go buy some guns and get trained. It's the only rational strategy left.
Accept that you are living in the Wild West. What if there had been no good guy at the OK Corral?
Buy some guns.
We live in the OK Corral, and it's not going to change. I'm with Bill Maher on this one – – let's stop wasting time discussing it, because it will never, ever change. If Sandy Hook didn't change it, nothing will. We have not even managed to pass the languishing bill refusing I'm firearms to potential terrorist on our no-fly list. It's the thin edge of the wedge, our NRA-owned politicians tell us. Just like they did when defending the right of blind people to buy guns. Suspected terrorists? Blind people!? The war is over, and the gun lobby is unconditionally victorious.
So what should good, rational, non-violent people do? Buy some guns and get training. Sooner rather than later. Right now, other than hunters, our 150 million plus privately owned guns are in the hands of criminals and angry, paranoid, potentially unstable people.
So, good Americans, please go buy some guns and get trained. It's the only rational strategy left.
Accept that you are living in the Wild West. What if there had been no good guy at the OK Corral?
Buy some guns.
1
Now you got me worried. I know dozens of owners of handguns and didn't realize they were so dangerous. Between all of us (angry, paranoid, unstable people) we have hundreds of years of gun experience (without an accident) but obviously it's only a matter of time before we all commit some type of terrorist attack. Thanks for the warning.
5
OH My, are we different. I feel far more safe knowing that if I am ever in a Paris like situation here in the US, that the odds are that some among us have the weapons to respond. If I get even a feeble attempt from a fellow american, that response, or 5 seconds, just may be enough.
4
We need to massively infiltrate these organizations. This will be won by intelligence operations, not by having more guards everywhere.
2
I am struck by the absence of analysis in these comments of the interventionist policies in the Middle East of the USA during and after the Cold War and those of European powers Britain and France that preceded them.
For some reason readers of the NY Times feel more comfortable basing an understanding of Islamic terrorism on an assumed perversity inherent in the religion of Islam than imagining how they would feel living societies dominated by foreign powers via brutal and corrupt dictators installed to serve them.
Islam from the point of view of Islamic terrorists, who have essentially no interest in religious arcana, is a cultural marker, a shared identifier that signifies belonging to a grouping that is determined to fight what it views as foreign oppressors.
Republicans and people who think like them seem only capable of simple-minded superficial analysis. Obvious surface characteristics are assumed to have no deeper threads that tie them to more complex relationships. "Muslims are killing people, so Islam is a religion based on killing people."
It's absurd. An entire history -- from Sykes-pIot, through Mossadegh, Mubarack, Ghaddafi, Hussein -- never even happened. The USA turning to violent religious extremists to fight the USSR in Afghanistan, as well as autocratic regimes like Zia ul-Haq in Pakistan the Saudis eliminating secular political opposition while allowing anti-establishment forces to operate in mosques, never even happened. I am out of space.
For some reason readers of the NY Times feel more comfortable basing an understanding of Islamic terrorism on an assumed perversity inherent in the religion of Islam than imagining how they would feel living societies dominated by foreign powers via brutal and corrupt dictators installed to serve them.
Islam from the point of view of Islamic terrorists, who have essentially no interest in religious arcana, is a cultural marker, a shared identifier that signifies belonging to a grouping that is determined to fight what it views as foreign oppressors.
Republicans and people who think like them seem only capable of simple-minded superficial analysis. Obvious surface characteristics are assumed to have no deeper threads that tie them to more complex relationships. "Muslims are killing people, so Islam is a religion based on killing people."
It's absurd. An entire history -- from Sykes-pIot, through Mossadegh, Mubarack, Ghaddafi, Hussein -- never even happened. The USA turning to violent religious extremists to fight the USSR in Afghanistan, as well as autocratic regimes like Zia ul-Haq in Pakistan the Saudis eliminating secular political opposition while allowing anti-establishment forces to operate in mosques, never even happened. I am out of space.
7
This comment is the most important of all because it seems to be the only one to remind us of the century of European and U.S. imperialism which is at the heart of Islamic fury.
3
No. Muslim-related current events aren't the fruit of prior Western mistakes, though many would like to believe they are. To think that they are "our fault" does, apparently, make them easier to accept, for some of us. The reality is that social and economic modernity, as created in and by Westerners and adopted (successfully) by many non-Westerners, is perceived by Muslim fundamentalists as incompatible with their 7th-Century view of Islam. And they're correct. All modern economies require degrees of social and economic freedom and individualism that are anathema to fundamentalist Muslims. Their rage is driven by their understanding all too well that the prosperity and dynamism of modern economies will be denied to their societies so long as they continue to try to live up to a strict Quranic code. This irremediable conflict can in the end only be resolved by either the most serious Muslim reformation ever seen or the conquest and subjugation of Western economies by the fundamentalist Muslims. The conquest and subjugation of the West by Islam is practically impossible. The continued harassment of the West by terrorism and sporadic, fringe warfare is only too possible. A Muslim reformation isn't up to us. Our choices are bad: put up with terrorism or go in and use all possible military force to erase terrorist groups and then occupy their areas (long term) and try to rebuild their countries and societies (may not happen). Good luck.
8
Sorry, G.
What you're saying is a bunch of baloney. A certain element in the terrorist subculture exhorts participants to action based on weird religious teachings. Chaplains have perverted religions since time immemorial to whip troops up into a killing mood.
Your rank-and-file terrorist feels so humiliated, dominated, oppressed, and hopeless, no matter what his own advantages might be, that he wants to destroy everything that is not him. Him includes his "brothers" who speak the same language, have the same upbringing, the same cultural memories. Religion isn't at issue but a way of life.
This tribal structure and set of tribal instincts and beliefs holds the Republicans together, in fact, as it does the entire racist, xenophobic, white supremacist, privileged, ignorant yet pedantic right wing in the USA.
There are extreme right-wing Christian militias in the USA. Religion for them works the same as it does for ISIS. It isn't real Christianity. It's a twisted screed attached to a familiar name associated with familiar stories.
Westerners fearing and hating Muslims is one of ISIS's aims. By creating environments extremely hostile and threatening to Muslims in the West, terrorism will leave Western Muslims nowhere to turn for protection but to ISIS is their thinking.
What you're saying is a bunch of baloney. A certain element in the terrorist subculture exhorts participants to action based on weird religious teachings. Chaplains have perverted religions since time immemorial to whip troops up into a killing mood.
Your rank-and-file terrorist feels so humiliated, dominated, oppressed, and hopeless, no matter what his own advantages might be, that he wants to destroy everything that is not him. Him includes his "brothers" who speak the same language, have the same upbringing, the same cultural memories. Religion isn't at issue but a way of life.
This tribal structure and set of tribal instincts and beliefs holds the Republicans together, in fact, as it does the entire racist, xenophobic, white supremacist, privileged, ignorant yet pedantic right wing in the USA.
There are extreme right-wing Christian militias in the USA. Religion for them works the same as it does for ISIS. It isn't real Christianity. It's a twisted screed attached to a familiar name associated with familiar stories.
Westerners fearing and hating Muslims is one of ISIS's aims. By creating environments extremely hostile and threatening to Muslims in the West, terrorism will leave Western Muslims nowhere to turn for protection but to ISIS is their thinking.
5
One day, this sort of extremism will be over, like a disease that has run its course. People looking back on it will be dumbstruck at the complete meaningless of it all.
But in the interim, there is no doubt that mainstream Muslims must speak out forcefully and consistently, and organize against the violence perpetrated in its name.
'There is no doubt, and no valid argument to be made on opposition to it, that extreme Islam provides a launching pad for the sort of brutality that has become endemic in our world. To say otherwise is to either be extremely naïve or blind to the facts we see all around us.
But as with the history of law addressing free speech, the approach needed is not to squelch another's point of view, but to offer a better or different pathway.
This is what moderate Muslims need to do, and now. They need to organize, speak out loudly and firmly, making it clear that killing others in the name of their religion is apostasy and anathema to their faith. We cannot simply kill the idea; instead, what is needed is a better, more true understanding of the Koran. This is the charge for Muslims now.
But in the interim, there is no doubt that mainstream Muslims must speak out forcefully and consistently, and organize against the violence perpetrated in its name.
'There is no doubt, and no valid argument to be made on opposition to it, that extreme Islam provides a launching pad for the sort of brutality that has become endemic in our world. To say otherwise is to either be extremely naïve or blind to the facts we see all around us.
But as with the history of law addressing free speech, the approach needed is not to squelch another's point of view, but to offer a better or different pathway.
This is what moderate Muslims need to do, and now. They need to organize, speak out loudly and firmly, making it clear that killing others in the name of their religion is apostasy and anathema to their faith. We cannot simply kill the idea; instead, what is needed is a better, more true understanding of the Koran. This is the charge for Muslims now.
9
The near fatal error in religious doctrine is the idea that a given set of ideas is the one true answer and that answer came to humans directly from god. When in turn this is taken to require that the world be re-made to follow those presumed answers, there is no end to conflict and violence.
I am not a religious scholar by any means, but my reading of the history of Christianity and Islam leads me to believe that they were established, in part, as principals in intentional opposition to each other. Islam came after Christianity and problems arose quickly. The idea that peoples had to be conquered and forced to adhere to a new religion came thereafter. Since the only sure way of getting lifelong followers of a religion is to indoctrinate them from early childhood onward, battles were fought and nations were occupied to spread Islam and Christianity (where defense and offense began is a subject for endless debate).
The economic and territorial ambitions of ancient nations were bound together with their religious beliefs. Christianity, faced with the reformation and the pressures of modernity, has made many adjustments. Islam, forcefully isolated and denied printed books for centuries (until the 1800s), remains locked in another time.
Instead of liberating their people from these ancient conflicts, Islamic leaders have sought to exacerbate them by emphasizing presumed imperatives. We need to find a way out of their nightmares and more wars are very unlikely to be the key.
I am not a religious scholar by any means, but my reading of the history of Christianity and Islam leads me to believe that they were established, in part, as principals in intentional opposition to each other. Islam came after Christianity and problems arose quickly. The idea that peoples had to be conquered and forced to adhere to a new religion came thereafter. Since the only sure way of getting lifelong followers of a religion is to indoctrinate them from early childhood onward, battles were fought and nations were occupied to spread Islam and Christianity (where defense and offense began is a subject for endless debate).
The economic and territorial ambitions of ancient nations were bound together with their religious beliefs. Christianity, faced with the reformation and the pressures of modernity, has made many adjustments. Islam, forcefully isolated and denied printed books for centuries (until the 1800s), remains locked in another time.
Instead of liberating their people from these ancient conflicts, Islamic leaders have sought to exacerbate them by emphasizing presumed imperatives. We need to find a way out of their nightmares and more wars are very unlikely to be the key.
4
This latest Mali attack is by Al Qaeda so we have to worry about them in addition to Isis. No wonder no one feels safe. Will Obama utter the words: "Islamic Terrorists". I think not.
19
If only he uttered those magic words, we would be on the right path!
Uh, the path to war against 1.7 billion people sprinkled throughout the world. Let's get started!
Uh, the path to war against 1.7 billion people sprinkled throughout the world. Let's get started!
3
Wait, does Ridgewood Janis think Obama won't utter the words "Islamic Terrorists" because he himself is a Muslim--is that it? Is that why a dozen people recommended this idiocy?
I really really hope not.
I just reread Bill Appledorf's comment above to cleanse my palate.
I really really hope not.
I just reread Bill Appledorf's comment above to cleanse my palate.
No easy answers. I feel those hell-bent on destruction will always find a way, no matter how much intelligence-gathering we do. I suppose we could take a cue from Canada and be more selective on who we let into our country - especially on "tourist" and "student" visas. If you haven't been, Canada's not super-easy to get in to - even for a weekend visit. They know who you're visiting and where you're staying. And to live there? The vetting process is insane.
But we have to live our lives, and the continuous media attention given to these animals just serves to freak us out and give them what they want. What would they do without all of the platforms we give them? I'm actually giving them one right now by responding to this!
But we have to live our lives, and the continuous media attention given to these animals just serves to freak us out and give them what they want. What would they do without all of the platforms we give them? I'm actually giving them one right now by responding to this!
6
We were in Mali last month reviewing a development program. You know that you are at some risk staying in the hotel in Bamako when the occupant in the neighboring room greets you in the morning with a machine gun on his or her shoulder. Central and Southern Mali are peaceful as military actions are confined to the North. Life goes on. We were greeted with hospitality in the islamic villages we visited. Life goes on.
20
Not for the dead people it doesn't.
15
“…Qaeda supporters had been praising the attack, quoting one who said that the Islamic State ‘should learn a thing or two.’” Does this mean we should forecast a contest of oneupsmanship, as IS and Al Qaeda and maybe others like Boko Haram compete to see who can massacre the greatest numbers of people? Maybe slick recruiting videos and polished magazines will take a back seat to spectacular body counts in attracting the death-obsessed to the flame.
2
The US has a colored history in Mali. On April 20th, 2012 several "special forces" went off a bridge in Bamako as their HMMWV went off a bridge in the wee hours. The DoD news release did not mention the young local women in the vehicle who worked in a local bar. Alcohol impairs driving.
On July 7, 2007 in Kidal a death occurred, and several "special forces" were injured (US personnel) as a huge dust storm came in a blew away a camp. Those personnel thought the dust storm was "cool" so they filmed it. Merely facts.
Now a hotel is attacked. How long have US personnel been going there? Does anyone care or notice? I anyone thinking? ( Was anyone thinking in Benghazi?) Luxury hotel? How about staying in the country, in the dirt? Oh, might break a nail?
Carnival.
On July 7, 2007 in Kidal a death occurred, and several "special forces" were injured (US personnel) as a huge dust storm came in a blew away a camp. Those personnel thought the dust storm was "cool" so they filmed it. Merely facts.
Now a hotel is attacked. How long have US personnel been going there? Does anyone care or notice? I anyone thinking? ( Was anyone thinking in Benghazi?) Luxury hotel? How about staying in the country, in the dirt? Oh, might break a nail?
Carnival.
1
Just another skirmish in the global war...I am not minimizingb the pain of the victims - I am as sad over the loss of life in Africa as in France. I have done my best to make people in the US aware of what happened in Rwanda, for example. But it is clear that this is a war between the secular West (broadly defined, so it includes China and India) and radical Islam. If there is any other Islam, it is time to hear from it.
15
I pity President Keita and the people of Mali. They've been under siege for years now yet have received little help to fight the Islamist terrorists. I don't blame them but I blame France and especially the West for giving little support to these places where the majority of citizens of these countries live in abject poverty and succumb to Islamic radical teaching but we, the west and the rest of the world, expect beautiful hotels and resorts and safety for tourists. I'd like to know how much money the Radisson corporation has given to charitable causes in the country of Mali or what they've done to help the people there.
4
archaeologists think there may have been times when th species that lead to us had only 200-300 members
we were that close to being extinct ...
oh, well, better luck next time
we were that close to being extinct ...
oh, well, better luck next time
4
Its not about religion as religion is just being used as a tool for those in power to control their uneducated populace.
Any questions?
Any questions?
5
Yes. Can you support your simplistic blanket statement?
2
Its not about food as food is just being used as a tool for those in power to control their hungry populace....
So, it is about food, no ?
So, it is about food, no ?
2
Sure can you provide more detail to your even more simplistic question?
No doubt Christie and Trump will find some twisted way to blame the President for this latest terrorist act..."because of the feckless foreign policy...uh...leading from behind..."
For the GOP such atrocities are merely political opportunities to talk tough and make the most ridiculous predictions of how global wars and 1000 year grudges would evaporate under the stern, clueless gaze of The Donald or Chris Christie.
For the GOP such atrocities are merely political opportunities to talk tough and make the most ridiculous predictions of how global wars and 1000 year grudges would evaporate under the stern, clueless gaze of The Donald or Chris Christie.
4
This is a tragedy. Please dont bring partisan politics into this. Its not appropriate for them and certainly not appropriate for you to preemptively accuse the GOP of these kinds of things.
8
Tom, it's not a tragedy, it's an act of aggression. And politics is the only tool through which democracies can address big problems.
3
The chickens are coming home to roost.
1
I was wondering how long it would be until I got to that unhelpful cliché in this comment section. It took less than one minute!
9
Maybe we should have listened to what Mr. Netanyahu said.
6
He said "bomb Iran". Iran is the biggest enemy of ISIS and al Qaeda.
11
Many commenters say the attraction of terrorist suicide groups is irresistible. Once again fear rules the commenters. How many suicide bombers are there around the world. I don't know the number but I think it is very small. There are not thousands- because for most folks - life is better than no life. It takes a lot of resources to get a person to take arms to kill others and then kill themselves.
2
Who in his right mind would want to vacation in Mali or any other country where human rights are regularly ignored?
If you want to vacation in Africa there is South Africa and a couple of other decently-run countries. Better yet, go to Costa Rica where American "Manifest Destiny" abuses have been challenged and obviated.
If you want to vacation in Africa there is South Africa and a couple of other decently-run countries. Better yet, go to Costa Rica where American "Manifest Destiny" abuses have been challenged and obviated.
1
Visitors are largely business people, not tourists.
4
Thank you. Lots of people don't know there is any business, culture or modernity anywhere the haven't been exposed to.
And what would their business be that they couln't negotiate in a decently run country? In all likelihood they're motivated by sheer greed & willing to risk their lives accordingly.
And if these business types were to boycott places like Mali it would probably pressure the respective governments to revise their tyrannical ways.
And if these business types were to boycott places like Mali it would probably pressure the respective governments to revise their tyrannical ways.
2
Seems like very sketchy security for a top hotel, in a place where such attacks are not uncommon.
Radisson, I hope you or your security consultants are reading this. I will be avoid Radisson properties overseas.
Radisson, I hope you or your security consultants are reading this. I will be avoid Radisson properties overseas.
3
Security is an overhead cost. Can't have that.
1
You would be better off avoiding unstable countries. No private hotel organization can support an army sufficient to repel this kind of armed attack. But soon that won't be an issue, because the terrorists' goal will have been met – – increasingly foreign investment will be driven away, the economy will decline, and the government will weaken.
By the way, I can recommend enthusiastically the Radisson Blu in St. Martin, as well the island itself. Both were very beautiful and very safe.
By the way, I can recommend enthusiastically the Radisson Blu in St. Martin, as well the island itself. Both were very beautiful and very safe.
1
And so it begins. Drive out the westerners and destroy the economy, so the country will plunge into more poverty and foreigners will not be present. Then force shariah on the people and take over.
15
The good news: The Islamic State and Al Qaeda are at war with each other. The bad news: They are playing can-you-top-this with innocent lives.
2
The problem is not religious per se. It is absolutist religion that has no tolerance for anyone but themselves. Let anyone within the sect step out of the party line and they are toast and forget those who have never seen the light.
It does not take many of these fanatics to create chaos as these few are right and everyone else is wrong and have forfeited their rights to life. Sufis though Muslims are not absolutists. Neither are Unitarians, Bahais, most Christian groups, Buddhists and most Hindus. Any belief system that villanizes the other can be turned against the nonbeliever.
It does not take many of these fanatics to create chaos as these few are right and everyone else is wrong and have forfeited their rights to life. Sufis though Muslims are not absolutists. Neither are Unitarians, Bahais, most Christian groups, Buddhists and most Hindus. Any belief system that villanizes the other can be turned against the nonbeliever.
7
Look, as far as Mali goes, the best thing you can do is read the local newspapers. If you can do that you are very far ahead of everyone else, including the US.
Terrorism is spreading in Africa, and now is the moment to do something. One fears that our "leaders" are lost in the sauce. Drone war does not work, but it is extremely profitable. Do you think it will stop even though it galvanizes populations against the USA?
Anyone can get on the internet and read about Mali. But very few will dig down into the real news. In the US we like to talk about the bottom line, the bottom line is that terrorism is spreading. That is one big fat failure on the part of several institutions. Mali is not a place to collect a paycheck in a luxury hotel with poor security and get drunk. If the US had any real leadership Mali would be a place to do things that benefited the Homeland--and benefited them. Until then it is a place where some nut jobs can roll in and squeeze a trigger to get onto international news.
What superb security and foresight!
Terrorism is spreading in Africa, and now is the moment to do something. One fears that our "leaders" are lost in the sauce. Drone war does not work, but it is extremely profitable. Do you think it will stop even though it galvanizes populations against the USA?
Anyone can get on the internet and read about Mali. But very few will dig down into the real news. In the US we like to talk about the bottom line, the bottom line is that terrorism is spreading. That is one big fat failure on the part of several institutions. Mali is not a place to collect a paycheck in a luxury hotel with poor security and get drunk. If the US had any real leadership Mali would be a place to do things that benefited the Homeland--and benefited them. Until then it is a place where some nut jobs can roll in and squeeze a trigger to get onto international news.
What superb security and foresight!
1
We can't rebuild our infrastructure or provide all of our kids with decent schools - and you expect the U.S. to fund a Marshall Plan for Mali?
4
And we can't even build affordable housing in New York City!
5
If I was staying in a hotel in that country it would be because I was there on business. The security in these countries is a joke. I'd bet these "security" guards are not well trained (If at all) or paid, simply cheap rent-a-cops. If I had to be there I'd be armed. If the government didn't allow this I'd be gone. These are "soft targets" for terrorists and they are not expecting resistance from their captives. To many people today have become complacent about their own safety, making the mistake of expecting others to care for them. I'm not advocating everyone be armed, just those people who are capable, well trained, and have the desire to do so.
2
Ignoring the elephants in the room leads to problems. Elephant number one is in the plight of the Palestinians. Our unconditional support of Israel has then simply led us to - elephant number two - support repressive regimes as long as they leave Israel alone and (in the past) aren't electing communist governments. That means that the people in countries like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria see us as part of their problems. If we really wanted to put troops on the ground we'd start by separating the Israelis and the Palestinians with a buffer zone, removing the settlements and partitioning Jerusalem. If we are not willing to undertake that in a serious manner - lots of money, troops lost, etc. then the only alternative when these terrorist groups get big like this is to whack them in a serious way militarily. We really cannot spend time nation building but we can destroy camps with our military capabilities over and over again to keep the level of violence down. The legacy of support repressive regimes - Iran, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Tunisia is always going to be hatred of the US. If we can stop looking like crusaders then the terrorists have no message to spread their whacko pseudo religious ideas - no traction at all. Or we can just keep wringing our hands and bumping into the elephants.
Rgrds-Ross
Rgrds-Ross
9
I think you hit the nail on the head. But how that will translate into a political solution is beyond me. Especially given the extent of chronic long-festering problems in that region, the power of certain U.S. Lobby Groups to maintain support for certain favored nations, and last, but not least, the scent of oil.
1
Years ago, when I lived in Africa, I smelled the beginnings of what this is. We had prepared leaders for their demands for independance, but those leaders we prepared were just like us corrupt, incompetent as national decision makers, and obliged to follow our advice if they wanted our money to skim off into their pockets from the World Bank or our national treasuries.
The new leaders did not convince the public that parenthood should be in planned numbers.
They had neither empathy nor sympathy for other tribes.
They did everything possible to stamp out tribal culture and replace it with urban culture where neo-Colonial culture of cars and suits & ties, air-conditioning and money were the new dream.
They made blatantly false promises of prosperity and peace.
As in the Middle East, Europe, and the Americas, the mass of people get only a taste of this. It's like a bully on a hot day offering his ice cream cone to someone then snatching it back, because it's His. In some countries the public gets 2 licks. No one gets a whole cone except the bullies who run things and are rich.
So all religions have their extremistsfanaticscrazies: Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Moslems,.
It is very complex. There seem to be no thinkers left who have any influence. It can only get worse if we can't change our systems of government radically and the politicians who lead us. We probably cannot.
The new leaders did not convince the public that parenthood should be in planned numbers.
They had neither empathy nor sympathy for other tribes.
They did everything possible to stamp out tribal culture and replace it with urban culture where neo-Colonial culture of cars and suits & ties, air-conditioning and money were the new dream.
They made blatantly false promises of prosperity and peace.
As in the Middle East, Europe, and the Americas, the mass of people get only a taste of this. It's like a bully on a hot day offering his ice cream cone to someone then snatching it back, because it's His. In some countries the public gets 2 licks. No one gets a whole cone except the bullies who run things and are rich.
So all religions have their extremistsfanaticscrazies: Jews, Christians, Hindus, and Moslems,.
It is very complex. There seem to be no thinkers left who have any influence. It can only get worse if we can't change our systems of government radically and the politicians who lead us. We probably cannot.
To say that ISIS, Boko Haram or all these extremist islamic groups represent the Islam is the same to say that Ku-Klux-Klan represent Christianism.
7
The trouble with this argument, which is grounded in the fallacy of false equivalence, is that non-KKK Christians effectively curtailed the violent activities of that group through the imposition of law.
Moderate Islam has yet to impose an analogous influence over its radical strains.
To put it differently, you are of course that the radicals do not represent the moderates, but this is besides the point. The real question is why haven't the moderates, whose religion is being hijacked by radicals who do not represent the faith as practiced by the majority of its adherents, do more to stop the perversion of their religion.
Moderate Islam has yet to impose an analogous influence over its radical strains.
To put it differently, you are of course that the radicals do not represent the moderates, but this is besides the point. The real question is why haven't the moderates, whose religion is being hijacked by radicals who do not represent the faith as practiced by the majority of its adherents, do more to stop the perversion of their religion.
12
I don't think of the KKK as a Christian group at all. I just think of them as a racist group. I don't really remember them talking much about scripture. They just hated black people. So, it's really enough already to say that the fact that all or almost all of the terrorist groups operating in the world today ally themselves with Isalm has nothing to do with Islam. We really have to get past that point now and starting talking about why that is. We first and foremost must acknowledge that this is so, otherwise we're just going to keep going around in circles.
3
Yes, but where is the wellspring of outrage and actively fighting against these extremists of their religion? If they remain silent in large part, that serves as a unspoken approval for what's going on, no?
6
So, do we now need to add an amendment to the still "fresh out of the box" legislation just passed putting a hold on Iraqi and Syrian refugees?
Or maybe, we could step back and look at some REAL solutions beyond kneejerk ones.
Or maybe, we could step back and look at some REAL solutions beyond kneejerk ones.
4
Back at th end of June, see link below, the NYT reported on a young church-going Christian woman who was recruited by ISIS, converted to Islam and was ready to fly to Syria, on a ticket provided by her recruiter, before being stopped by relatives. If this one way that ISIS recruits, I suggest a campaign be undertaken to flood ISIS recruiters w/ people who fake an interest in joining ISIS, but whose real interest is to keep these recruiters busy with fake sympathizers. Also any chat rooms or forums that ISIS uses to lure in recruits could be inundated with posers who will render their time & efforts a waste of time. I'm sure millions would volunteer to spend a little time on this effort. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/world/americas/isis-online-recruiting-...
3
I've heard for some time now how all these terrorist groups are adept at recruiting, pr, video etc... On social media.
It's time all social media companies take jihadi/terrorist group websites and social media presence down whenever/ wherever it pops up. They should have nooooo outlet to recruit or propagandize. Period.
It's time all social media companies take jihadi/terrorist group websites and social media presence down whenever/ wherever it pops up. They should have nooooo outlet to recruit or propagandize. Period.
10
And while you're at it, do something about those ghost apps that makes it possible to send and receive encrypted messages without leaving a trail. If these terrorist groups have a hand on this (which they reportedly do), so should someone else.
2
My Dear God and Heaven almighty -- Obama needs to consider slaughtering where ever intelligence says these terrorist organizations are hiding out in a full on offensive and do so by acting quickly.
Peace is great , I love it. But we cannot be ruled under fear and allow these worms to grow in strength.
Give a dog a bone and he will ask for more. Why are we tossing them more dead bodies?
Peace is great , I love it. But we cannot be ruled under fear and allow these worms to grow in strength.
Give a dog a bone and he will ask for more. Why are we tossing them more dead bodies?
4
There is no doubt that there are elements in Islam that bring some bad guys together to kill humans. I believe a vast majority of Muslims are peace loving people. The arguments ostensibly justifying terror attacks that underprivileged, ghetto dwellers in the western capitals are alienated: therefore they take up arms & wear suicide vests, are totally false for the following reasons:
1. As some commentators have written: many of the ISIS sympathisers/ terrorists from the western capitals are educated and financially well off ( it costs money to fly to and from Syria)
2. There are thousands and thousands of "alienated" non Muslims in the EU and in the US. They do not resort to terror?!
3. Islamic terrorists use the so called suppression of Muslims in Palestine as an excuse to kill westerners in general and Jews in particular.
4. A lot of Christians are mercilessly killed in the Middle East and Africa. I have not heard any Christian from Paris or London, or Stockholm or New York that have flown to Cairo or Riyadh to kill Muslims!
Then what is the problem. The problem is just bad politics by the western political leaders that have supported undemocratic ME tyrants in one hand and have destroyed the people and countries by the pother hand. The second biggest problem is the Saudi sponsored Wahhabism all over the world. The third problem is the over tolerance of the West towards radical Islam that promoted hate speech and venomous preaching against western values for decades!
1. As some commentators have written: many of the ISIS sympathisers/ terrorists from the western capitals are educated and financially well off ( it costs money to fly to and from Syria)
2. There are thousands and thousands of "alienated" non Muslims in the EU and in the US. They do not resort to terror?!
3. Islamic terrorists use the so called suppression of Muslims in Palestine as an excuse to kill westerners in general and Jews in particular.
4. A lot of Christians are mercilessly killed in the Middle East and Africa. I have not heard any Christian from Paris or London, or Stockholm or New York that have flown to Cairo or Riyadh to kill Muslims!
Then what is the problem. The problem is just bad politics by the western political leaders that have supported undemocratic ME tyrants in one hand and have destroyed the people and countries by the pother hand. The second biggest problem is the Saudi sponsored Wahhabism all over the world. The third problem is the over tolerance of the West towards radical Islam that promoted hate speech and venomous preaching against western values for decades!
13
'Mali will have to get used to situations like this'? Why? If we ever get to the point where that is the case, we have lost our humanity.
19
EXACTLY what I thought when I read that quote.... He sounds cowardly and defeated.
3
Not sure I would be at a hotel in Mali right now....
2
Well heck, I will never in my life go anywhere in Africa north of the Sahara, nor anywhere in the Middle East. It would be too depressing to witness the misogyny, poverty, ignorance, and bloodshed. I'd probably live through it, but why not go to the Caribbean instead and enjoy a journey rather than spend it appalled and paranoid?
3
French Polynesia hotels are not safe, either.
3
Given what's going on, NOWHERE looks safe. Which is exactly how they want us to think. Awful.
1
Wasn't Mali that African country Hollande bombed one year/some months ago?
1
What concerns me the most is that we have Imams actually encouraging terrorist activities - yeah, that's really great. People who should be providing people with a moral compass are actually steering them down a dark path.
Terrorists - at their core, are misguided, lonely, confused waywards that have no real direction in life (I don't care how educated some of them are - they could not be THAT educated if they actually believe that this is the best course of action). These people have psychological issues to the nth degree.
Islam and its culture is rooted in ancient times and, by all accounts, is deeply flawed at this point.
NYTimes: it's not really a good idea to censor these comments, I have had several that were not that bad and never got posted. This is the land of free speech and I'm concerned you are not allowing people to express their opinion.
Terrorists - at their core, are misguided, lonely, confused waywards that have no real direction in life (I don't care how educated some of them are - they could not be THAT educated if they actually believe that this is the best course of action). These people have psychological issues to the nth degree.
Islam and its culture is rooted in ancient times and, by all accounts, is deeply flawed at this point.
NYTimes: it's not really a good idea to censor these comments, I have had several that were not that bad and never got posted. This is the land of free speech and I'm concerned you are not allowing people to express their opinion.
21
The New York Times states openly that the comment board is moderated. That's one of the reasons why it's the only comment board I will ever read – – most comment boards are not moderated and are full of irrelevant posts, self promotions, ugly vitriol, and repetition.
I believe that sometimes comments are not posted for the simple reason that they are repetitive with many other posts already up. A post doesn't have to be irrelevant or a personal attack or offensive to be passed over.
By the way, the constitutional guarantee of free speech applies to state action only – – not to the actions of private agents. And even there, there are exceptions and limitations.
I believe that sometimes comments are not posted for the simple reason that they are repetitive with many other posts already up. A post doesn't have to be irrelevant or a personal attack or offensive to be passed over.
By the way, the constitutional guarantee of free speech applies to state action only – – not to the actions of private agents. And even there, there are exceptions and limitations.
4
I agree with me! I used to enjoy so very much reading comments in the Washington Post. So often it reflected the high level of knowledge and expertise in that area. Now I cannot endure it for 5 minutes, the sophomoric vitriol is unbearable. It quickly descends into hostile, off-topic sparring between competing trolls. I cannot swear that WaPo is not not moderated, but I would be shocked if it were. NYT is worth the time and paywall price, I learn as much from the readers from all over the world as I do from the articles.
11
@DER
I agree. And what concerns me most is the lack of visibility of Imams actually mobilizing forces to stand up against these hateful groups en masse. And on the front-page! If anything, that would send the right message not only to Muslim communities, but to the rest of the world.
I agree. And what concerns me most is the lack of visibility of Imams actually mobilizing forces to stand up against these hateful groups en masse. And on the front-page! If anything, that would send the right message not only to Muslim communities, but to the rest of the world.
5
Yes, many of these attackers are poor, have no future, yada yada. The bottom line is that nothing excuses violence. Nothing.
27
"The bottom line is nothing excuses violence. Nothing." I completely agree and wish our own Country would follow what you say. Lead by example.
1
Really?
How about slavery, starvation, rape, kidnapping?
How about slavery, starvation, rape, kidnapping?
2
How did you oppose the violence of Bushes' wars.....paid your war tax?
Terrorists who have no qualms about slaughtering dozens or hundreds have long been groomed in countries to which we have paid some but not nearly enough attention.
Sudan and Congo are among those to have regularly experienced this kind of mayhem for decades, and we have largely averted our eyes (except in the case of Muslim/Christian violence in Sudan).
Other countries like India periodically have violence on this scale (with again the world largely ignoring it and cautioning India to be "diplomatic" in response to the direction and support the terrorists received from neighboring Pakistan).
Guess the terrorists figured out if you simply do what you have been doing for so many years, but shift your targets to Europe or Europeans/Americans/Asians in hotels, then you'll get plenty of attention.
What are the answers? God only knows. When it just takes a couple of guys with semi-automatics to cause such widespread human damage, one simply has to pray for luck - not just for ones own family and friends, but for everyone. Let's hope that as with the breaks in the Oklahoma City bomber case and the French getting lucky with Americans thwarting a train attack and a foreign intelligence agency helping them find the apparent planner of the Paris attacks, that the world gets lucky not just in reacting to such mayhem, but in figuring out ways to diminish it. Hoping for a better "globalization" in the years to come!
Sudan and Congo are among those to have regularly experienced this kind of mayhem for decades, and we have largely averted our eyes (except in the case of Muslim/Christian violence in Sudan).
Other countries like India periodically have violence on this scale (with again the world largely ignoring it and cautioning India to be "diplomatic" in response to the direction and support the terrorists received from neighboring Pakistan).
Guess the terrorists figured out if you simply do what you have been doing for so many years, but shift your targets to Europe or Europeans/Americans/Asians in hotels, then you'll get plenty of attention.
What are the answers? God only knows. When it just takes a couple of guys with semi-automatics to cause such widespread human damage, one simply has to pray for luck - not just for ones own family and friends, but for everyone. Let's hope that as with the breaks in the Oklahoma City bomber case and the French getting lucky with Americans thwarting a train attack and a foreign intelligence agency helping them find the apparent planner of the Paris attacks, that the world gets lucky not just in reacting to such mayhem, but in figuring out ways to diminish it. Hoping for a better "globalization" in the years to come!
29
So if we hadn't averted our eyes, if we had "paid more attention", this wouldn't have happened?
I think we can safely take credit for 11,000 senseless gun-related homicides a year due to our in ability to make rational gun laws in this country, but do we have hubris enough to claim responsibility for senseless murders in other countries as well?
I think we can safely take credit for 11,000 senseless gun-related homicides a year due to our in ability to make rational gun laws in this country, but do we have hubris enough to claim responsibility for senseless murders in other countries as well?
2
The answer is to confront Saudi Arabia and ask it to reign in its Islamist propaganda machine http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-h...
Another day, another attack by Islamic terrorists. To blame these on any one cause - Islam, monotheism, poverty, unemployment, etc. - is simplistic, and like most simplistic answers, wrong. It seems to me more like a complex chemical reaction - put together the right chemicals in the right quantities, under the right conditions, and you get a reaction. An effective long-term solution must address the entire spectrum of causes and conditions behind this violence. Easier said than done, I know, and it will not happen quickly. In the meantime, we must continue to use short-term measures, including increased security, greater international cooperation, and immediate lethal responses to attacks. To use another analogy, treating the symptoms may not cure the disease, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't continue to treat the symptoms while you work on a cure.
8
@Dave
The sheer fact that the group/s perpetrating these acts associate themselves with Islam (in one form, or another), renders your argument simplistic. It has nothing to do with blame. This is fact. A 'jihad' has been declared, and we are reading about the rest everyday. If anything, THAT is what's simplistic.
The sheer fact that the group/s perpetrating these acts associate themselves with Islam (in one form, or another), renders your argument simplistic. It has nothing to do with blame. This is fact. A 'jihad' has been declared, and we are reading about the rest everyday. If anything, THAT is what's simplistic.
2
While the news is focusing on these random acts of terror keep in mind around one hundred thousand of our fellow citizens are wounded, slaughtered, and commit suicide each year using guns.
But apparently this context isn't worth mentioning.
But apparently this context isn't worth mentioning.
5
The word "random" in your first sentence defeats your entire argument. The difference between violent Islamic terrorism and most gun violence in the US is that the latter is random and the former is anything but.
(Please note that I am not defending or excusing the intolerable levels of US gun violence, or the laxity of US gun laws, by this observation.)
(Please note that I am not defending or excusing the intolerable levels of US gun violence, or the laxity of US gun laws, by this observation.)
3
There are approximately 33,000 deaths from gunshots in the U.S. per annum.
About 2/3 are suicides, now largely middle class whites in economic despair, with most of the balance being black on black violence in a small number of cities controlled by Democrats for decades, e.g. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, Washington D.C., and now Baltimore. All these cities have very strict gun laws, but the carnage continues unabated.
If you exclude the gun violence from the cities cited above, this country is one of the safest in the world. So, tell us, where does the problem really lie?
About 2/3 are suicides, now largely middle class whites in economic despair, with most of the balance being black on black violence in a small number of cities controlled by Democrats for decades, e.g. Chicago, Detroit, New Orleans, Washington D.C., and now Baltimore. All these cities have very strict gun laws, but the carnage continues unabated.
If you exclude the gun violence from the cities cited above, this country is one of the safest in the world. So, tell us, where does the problem really lie?
1
Is this going to be called another "setback" by Obama? The pathetic lack of leadership out of this White House will get more people killed by these cowards. The next "setback" could be scores of Americans killed while Obama fiddles.
10
@Mark
Either that, or scores of Americans are killed while the Republicans fiddle. Does it really make a difference, when the loss of human life is involved?
Either that, or scores of Americans are killed while the Republicans fiddle. Does it really make a difference, when the loss of human life is involved?
2
It's impossible to have a "peace agreement" with those who have no honor, and I think the radical Islamists have shown over and over that they have no honor.
12
France in particular, as a current focal point, needs to change the conversation. What about Truth and Reconciliation dialogues that take place every night on television for an extended period of time? The whole country would be glued to this: Poverty, alienation, religion, culture, the past (including the colonial past), the way forward, could all be discussed and aired in front of a national audience. It could be a game changer, and at least certainly an excellent offensive move against Islamist propaganda.
The irony is that an international paper like the NYT, which supposedly supports free speech – has been promoting many nuanced attempts on censorship: anyone who doesn’t agree with its leanings is shamed into the definition of a rightwing bigot.
Excuse me, but I believe that is bigotry itself.
I hope the NYT and other ‘politically correct’ elements realize that even if only a very small percentage of them are fundamentalists, or terrorists, this will translate into thousands of real threats.
But my main concern for Europe, in terms of the influx of refugees is actually not terrorism – it is the kind of violence and oppression brought by a culture where that is the standard.
Two weeks ago a Syrian refugee father in Germany killed his own daughter because she had been gang raped back home – therefore she was considered ‘unclean’.
There have been at least three gang rapes in Germany this year involving refugees and a rape of a 13 year old girl in a refugee center.
Where is your coverage on these cultural values being brought in to the West?
We must have a much more honest conversation about the misogyny, homophobia and religious intolerance in Islam – before you accuse everyone who makes these relevant questions on being prejudiced monsters.
The West should take in women, families, the elderly… but 75-80% of the refugees are men, most of them of military age – this is turning into a cultural, financial and physical suicide on our part.
Excuse me, but I believe that is bigotry itself.
I hope the NYT and other ‘politically correct’ elements realize that even if only a very small percentage of them are fundamentalists, or terrorists, this will translate into thousands of real threats.
But my main concern for Europe, in terms of the influx of refugees is actually not terrorism – it is the kind of violence and oppression brought by a culture where that is the standard.
Two weeks ago a Syrian refugee father in Germany killed his own daughter because she had been gang raped back home – therefore she was considered ‘unclean’.
There have been at least three gang rapes in Germany this year involving refugees and a rape of a 13 year old girl in a refugee center.
Where is your coverage on these cultural values being brought in to the West?
We must have a much more honest conversation about the misogyny, homophobia and religious intolerance in Islam – before you accuse everyone who makes these relevant questions on being prejudiced monsters.
The West should take in women, families, the elderly… but 75-80% of the refugees are men, most of them of military age – this is turning into a cultural, financial and physical suicide on our part.
26
The reality is that we are experiencing a religious war, like many others before in history. Just this time it is directed at the West as the one on the offense and not as the aggressor.
It is the same cycle of religious zealous and righteousness that plague humanity since religion was invented as a measure of using control over others.
Two thousands years ago it was the Jews who exterminated the population of Palestine in a religion war of conquest.
One thousand years ago it was the Christians who marched on the Holly Land in multiple Crusades and brought pain and suffering on the civilian population of that area.
And now, the youngest of the religion, the Muslim are incandescently killing the infidels.
It seems it is just a stage in religious maturation. Unfortunately killing technologies is something humanity is very good at invention. So if the first religious war used sticks and stone, the second swords, the third can use much more sophisticated killing methods.
No matter how one will spin it, it is about religion. True conflicts over resources can be resolved logically. Conflicts over religion cannot - one is as imaginary as the other, but of course "mine" is the correct one.
Religion is indeed the source of all evil in the world.
It is the same cycle of religious zealous and righteousness that plague humanity since religion was invented as a measure of using control over others.
Two thousands years ago it was the Jews who exterminated the population of Palestine in a religion war of conquest.
One thousand years ago it was the Christians who marched on the Holly Land in multiple Crusades and brought pain and suffering on the civilian population of that area.
And now, the youngest of the religion, the Muslim are incandescently killing the infidels.
It seems it is just a stage in religious maturation. Unfortunately killing technologies is something humanity is very good at invention. So if the first religious war used sticks and stone, the second swords, the third can use much more sophisticated killing methods.
No matter how one will spin it, it is about religion. True conflicts over resources can be resolved logically. Conflicts over religion cannot - one is as imaginary as the other, but of course "mine" is the correct one.
Religion is indeed the source of all evil in the world.
8
Another terrorist attack is almost too much to bear, but if just a few more happen in a short time span, many of us will put up protective emotional barriers so that such attacks begin to have less and less effect ... just like all the school shootings here in the U.S. have inoculated us from crafting meaningful gun restriction laws.
1
President Ibrahim Boubacar Keïta of Mali, who was on a visit to neighboring Chad, said, "Mali will have to get used to situations like this,” NO sir. No one in the world should stand by and "get used" to terrorists. It is no different than taking on bullies on the playground or in life. When average people stand up against all types of terrorism we will see and end to it. It's starting now. Courage is the word of the year. Courage, Good People of the World!
8
It's odd how the people who blame the attacks on poverty ignore the fact that the mastermind of the Paris attacks (Abdelhamid Abaaoud) was solidly middle class and dropped out of a prestigious college. Religious fundamentalism and radical Salafism appeals to more than just the poor -- the beliefs of condescending NYTimes commenters notwithstanding.
28
Let's bring back the cold war. One foe. One world system, us or them and no one else to worry about.
1
1. The US government needs to completely secure both its Canadian and Mexican border. Nobody can enter the country illegally. Nobody.
2. That's fine if American wants to cave into the Rand Paul-Edward Snowden crowd and continue to roll back the NSA/FBI and CIA's ability to monitor phones, emails, Google searches, etc. But let's be crystal clear: there is a direct link between weakening those powers and increasing the chances of a terrorist attack. I for one don't mind if the NSA reads an occasional email of mine or knows what I've searched if it helps prevent another Paris or Mali or Mumbai.
2. That's fine if American wants to cave into the Rand Paul-Edward Snowden crowd and continue to roll back the NSA/FBI and CIA's ability to monitor phones, emails, Google searches, etc. But let's be crystal clear: there is a direct link between weakening those powers and increasing the chances of a terrorist attack. I for one don't mind if the NSA reads an occasional email of mine or knows what I've searched if it helps prevent another Paris or Mali or Mumbai.
16
In agreement with you. What if this had happened at a hotel in the middle of Times Square?
3
Unfortunately it is impossible to completely secure the Canadian, Mexican, Atlantic, and Pacific borders. And all the surveillance so far has failed to catch a lot of major attacks, so there's no assurance that more fascist surveillance would have any effect.
I hate to break your Utopian bubble, but they are machine reading ALL your email, copying all your USPS mail envelopes, monitoring your cellphones and keeping track of your phone conversations. They have unmarked cars that read and record your license plates, and track you whereabouts via' the tracking built into your cellphones and iPads. All this, plus pervasive video monitoring means that we are all bit players in "Person of Interest." Do not believe otherwise for even a second.
I am not blaming my Muslim friends and neighbors for yet another Islamist terror strike. They have nothing to apologize for. However, if I were them, I would be deeply ashamed and infuriated by this cancer in the midst, and would spend a lot more time looking in the mirror to figure out what I could personally do to stem this red tide. Reporting radicalized neighbors, holding mass meetings and demonstrations, and publicly supporting Western values of freedom of the press, expression, religion, and sexuality would be a very good start. The result would be Islamophilia, not Islamophobia.
21
Terrorism itself explains it.
Islamic terrorists have terrorized their fellow Muslims more than anyone else. Have you read about what happens to liberal bloggers in Pakistan? Opening your mouth in an environment like that would require exceptional courage verging on the suicidal. Malala Yusufsai has done nothing more than to promote education for females, and she's not even safe to return to her home country anymore.
Islamic terrorists have terrorized their fellow Muslims more than anyone else. Have you read about what happens to liberal bloggers in Pakistan? Opening your mouth in an environment like that would require exceptional courage verging on the suicidal. Malala Yusufsai has done nothing more than to promote education for females, and she's not even safe to return to her home country anymore.
3
" Reporting radicalized neighbors, holding mass meetings and demonstrations, and publicly supporting Western values of freedom of the press, expression, religion, and sexuality would be a very good start."
You are asking them to repudiate the Quran, Mohammad and the entire history of Islam. I'm sure they'll jump at such an invitation.
You are asking them to repudiate the Quran, Mohammad and the entire history of Islam. I'm sure they'll jump at such an invitation.
1
The bottom line is that we have a group of people who want to kill anyone that doesn't believe what they do and are willing to die trying.
Obama's big grin, rhetoric or humanitarianism mean nothing to them. They will simply use his naivety and idealism to their advantage and exploit it.
As soon as we all wake up to this reality and eliminate the problem we will all be safe.
Obama's big grin, rhetoric or humanitarianism mean nothing to them. They will simply use his naivety and idealism to their advantage and exploit it.
As soon as we all wake up to this reality and eliminate the problem we will all be safe.
11
It doesn't matter where or how often this kind of horror occurs. It is unspeakably insane.
2
It matters 'where' when countries are foolish enough to import it.
If you read The Koran, you will find out why so many Muslims are turning to violence.
14
Does the WH still not to label the killers "Islamic" terrorists?
For sure, they are *not* an alliance of astrophysicists, evolutionary biologists and your run of the mill atheists.
For sure, they are *not* an alliance of astrophysicists, evolutionary biologists and your run of the mill atheists.
10
It's called diplomacy.
“Guns is Great!” (sung in the spirit of “God is Great!”)
Guns is great, guns is great!
It’s why folks keep on shootin’ ‘em!
Guns is great, guns is great!
There’s really no diputin’ ’em!
Paris was just yesterday
Now Mali is the rage
Tomorrow’s just another slay
A gift from your front page
Guns is great, guns is great!
The Constitution’s clear!
Guns is great, guns is great!
Our enemies run in fear!
Elementary schools and such
Theaters and planes
Concert halls and sports events
Everything’s in range
Leveling the playing field
For ignorance and pain
No need to reach the higher ground
Or face other’s disdain
Let’s just keep on makin’ ‘em
The hottest item selling
Good thing guns don’t kill people
Where we’d be then, no telling
Guns is great, guns is great!
It’s why folks keep on shootin’ ‘em!
Guns is great, guns is great!
There’s really no diputin’ ’em!
Paris was just yesterday
Now Mali is the rage
Tomorrow’s just another slay
A gift from your front page
Guns is great, guns is great!
The Constitution’s clear!
Guns is great, guns is great!
Our enemies run in fear!
Elementary schools and such
Theaters and planes
Concert halls and sports events
Everything’s in range
Leveling the playing field
For ignorance and pain
No need to reach the higher ground
Or face other’s disdain
Let’s just keep on makin’ ‘em
The hottest item selling
Good thing guns don’t kill people
Where we’d be then, no telling
3
Funny song James, but it conflates a batch of different things. Our Constitution has absolutely no impact on anything that happens in France or Mali. The favorite weapon of these terrorists is the reliable AK-47, manufactured primarily by Russia and China.
Without guns, we can easily imagine how things would be, because history has thousands of years of recording of no guns existing. People killed eachother constantly, at a far higher rate than they do today. If you could vaporize every gun in the world today, people would simply go back to slightly less effective means of killing people.
The problem here is not guns, the problem is human nature.
Without guns, we can easily imagine how things would be, because history has thousands of years of recording of no guns existing. People killed eachother constantly, at a far higher rate than they do today. If you could vaporize every gun in the world today, people would simply go back to slightly less effective means of killing people.
The problem here is not guns, the problem is human nature.
2
I know this argument is going nowhere, but how would human nature have killed 130 people at the show in Paris?
The US manufactures many/most of the guns terrorists are using in France and Mali. No problem there?
The US manufactures many/most of the guns terrorists are using in France and Mali. No problem there?
Dear James,
Yes, it is a bit of a dead-end argument, but sure I'll respond to the questions. If I were a terrorist wanting to kill about 130 people I'd drive a rented truck full of propane canisters into a stadium entrance and ignite it. Or I'd build a cyanide bomb and simply kill most of the people in the stadium (an enclosed one, not open-air). Or just get twenty like-minded psycho fanatics together, board a train, and attack people with machetes for a half hour.
There is nothing stopping humans from killing eachother, guns only simplify the process somewhat.
As for who manufactures the guns, I really think you have that wrong, they do prefer the AK-47 to American made assault rifles because it's easier to use, more durable, and cheaper. If American companies didn't export them, they'd have plenty of other suppliers. I think American gun manufacturers should cut down on production, or be forced to, but I do not think that will help this problem.
Yes, it is a bit of a dead-end argument, but sure I'll respond to the questions. If I were a terrorist wanting to kill about 130 people I'd drive a rented truck full of propane canisters into a stadium entrance and ignite it. Or I'd build a cyanide bomb and simply kill most of the people in the stadium (an enclosed one, not open-air). Or just get twenty like-minded psycho fanatics together, board a train, and attack people with machetes for a half hour.
There is nothing stopping humans from killing eachother, guns only simplify the process somewhat.
As for who manufactures the guns, I really think you have that wrong, they do prefer the AK-47 to American made assault rifles because it's easier to use, more durable, and cheaper. If American companies didn't export them, they'd have plenty of other suppliers. I think American gun manufacturers should cut down on production, or be forced to, but I do not think that will help this problem.
2
What do any of these savages want? When will they tell us?
Is it only to drag the civilized world back to 7th century barbarism?
A response similar in scope and expertise to that launched to stop the Nazis is required. Anything less won't do the job and it cannot wait.
Is it only to drag the civilized world back to 7th century barbarism?
A response similar in scope and expertise to that launched to stop the Nazis is required. Anything less won't do the job and it cannot wait.
7
@RML
I think you answered your own question. And they have already told us. It has something to do with the 7th century, even though the 3rd is more like it.
I think you answered your own question. And they have already told us. It has something to do with the 7th century, even though the 3rd is more like it.
2
The American media will focus on Paris for a year and forget this within a week.
And since the media controls itself and doesn't like to be called out on its own institutional racism, they won't publish even this little posting. (I dare you, editor.) The media will continue to deflect the big racism issues by focusing on immature students at Yale.
Do black lives matter?
And since the media controls itself and doesn't like to be called out on its own institutional racism, they won't publish even this little posting. (I dare you, editor.) The media will continue to deflect the big racism issues by focusing on immature students at Yale.
Do black lives matter?
2
White racism is real, and it is a huge problem. But it is far from the only explanation for preferential media coverage.
People have a heightened interest in events that they feel might come to concern them directly. I am much more likely to be interested in coverage of a slaughter in Paris, a city I and many other Americans visit, than a slaughter in an African country I will never see.
A woman in a bucolic Westchester County town neighboring mine was murdered last week. There was extensive coverage locally of her murder. At the same time, our local papers failed to report on, for example, the many gang killings that occurred in Chicago that same week. Why? Because the local murder of someone we have a lot in common with might have direct implications for us. The Chicago murder likely will not. If race is a factor in the different levels of our interest, and thus the different levels of media coverage, it is dwarfed by other much more powerful factors.
People have a heightened interest in events that they feel might come to concern them directly. I am much more likely to be interested in coverage of a slaughter in Paris, a city I and many other Americans visit, than a slaughter in an African country I will never see.
A woman in a bucolic Westchester County town neighboring mine was murdered last week. There was extensive coverage locally of her murder. At the same time, our local papers failed to report on, for example, the many gang killings that occurred in Chicago that same week. Why? Because the local murder of someone we have a lot in common with might have direct implications for us. The Chicago murder likely will not. If race is a factor in the different levels of our interest, and thus the different levels of media coverage, it is dwarfed by other much more powerful factors.
5
Strange because the NY Times article mentions a witness seeing a white man being killed. Do you know the races of the victims in Mali, has that been released yet, or do you have a private source of this information? It appears that the hotel was targeted for the nationalities of its guests, not for their races. Seeing racism where it does not exist is - racist. And trying to pretend that its OK to incite violence through social media using nonsensical slogans is immature and divisive. How about turning off the "racism" channel in your head and focusing on reality and truth for a change - and stop dividing people. We have enough terrorists doing that, thanks all the same.
2
There are many sects in all World Religions. The Islamic sects that are carrying out terrorism are fulfilling their religious duty of political jihad. They are teaching their interpretation of the Koran to their children. They have easy access to weapons and believe in martyrdom. With the establishment of the caliphate comes the end times and the return of Jesus. These are all 'facts' that I have read about over the past few days.
Perhaps it would be more useful to think of these terrorists as technology suave clones of Jim Jones using AK-47s and suicide vests instead of Kool Aide. The more we respond with violence, the more their vision of the future comes true.
Perhaps it would be more useful to think of these terrorists as technology suave clones of Jim Jones using AK-47s and suicide vests instead of Kool Aide. The more we respond with violence, the more their vision of the future comes true.
These are cyclical episodes. 3 decades ago it was Latin America that was in ferment, there were guerilla movements (all catholic incidentally) that crossed national borders, killed civilians, took hostages etc.
All over Africa there are disparate Christian terrorist forces - The Lord's Resistance Army, Charles Taylor, etc.
Good religious people are good despite religion, not because of it.
All over Africa there are disparate Christian terrorist forces - The Lord's Resistance Army, Charles Taylor, etc.
Good religious people are good despite religion, not because of it.
7
I am sure the lepers on the colony begun by Father Damian would so agree with you.
2
Wait until the next "cyclical episode" comes to your neighborhood. The Space Needle is a potential target. Will you be so fair minded and dismissive of Islamic terrorism then?
3
Ms Clinton did say yesterday the Paris attacks were by radical islamists, but not Muslims. Today this attack is reported in Africa. The attack is by an AQ affiliate- radical islamists. On CNN yesterday an American Muslim leader bemoaned the "lack of leadership in the US' in trying to end radical islamists. Across the entire world, from the Philippines to Morocco islamists are killing innocent people, hundreds and in the US on 9/11 almost 3,000. Why can't our President name the enemy, show leadership, and take definitive action to eliminate these people that are bent are killing every one else? Instead, the French have to lead and the Russians, even, are doing something ( but for their own purposes, of course). Our President, for some reason, is simply not up to the task. Instead, he belittles people who are concerned and spends his time on global warning.
17
Global warming is a serious factor in the disintegration of Syria (including severe drought and crop failure) and the resource wars that are now plaguing humankind. Please educate yourself.
As to ISIS, no one has put forward a viable plan to deal with this scourge. It is VERY possible to make the situation much worse (as America undeniably did, thanks to its depraved and murderous invasion of Iraq).
As to ISIS, no one has put forward a viable plan to deal with this scourge. It is VERY possible to make the situation much worse (as America undeniably did, thanks to its depraved and murderous invasion of Iraq).
2
Obama has not, I must agree, come off well in this. Neither has Hollande, for that matter, although he appears to be trying harder. My guess is that while Hollande is facing a national election in which he is still well behind in the polls, Obama doesn't have to run again, although he runs the risk of damaging his party in the next elections. Of course, after Trump obscenely suggesting a national registry for American Muslims, the Democrats may be immunized from damage from anyone outside the Republican slate. Odd, the Jobbiks in Hungary suggested the same thing for Jews in their country. Familiar, much?
4
Secular and religious belief systems with claims to absolute truth invariably go down the path of intolerance and bigotry, and often lead to cruelty and violence directed at the OTHER. Since the demands and strictures of these systems exceed what most humans are capable of living with, hypocrisy and cynicism are inevitable byproducts; self-loathing is externalized, and conflicts ensue.
5
Looks like the Malian security forces have been doing a great job.
1
The only way that Western nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China et al will ever get Saudi Arabia and their partners to step up and actively take responsibility for the violent radicalism of Islam is for the nations of the world to unilaterally boycott the Saudi's and and friends' oil and gas. That is the only thing that will wake them up, hitting them in the pocket.
16
That is tough to do since Obama has made us even more dependent on Saudi oil; he vetoed the Keystone pipeline, he's anti-fracking, and he recently signed and emissions treaty with China that places even more onerous restrictions on American power plants and industry. He does like wind power and solar, but you can't put gas in your tank or oil in your furnace with a windmill or a solar panel.
3
Yet another atrocity committed by the hopelessly fanatical. My condolences to all the family and friends of the victims, may your grief be bearable.
I think we have a decent understanding of why these barbarians do these things by now. Their psychotic spin-off of Islam is pro-murder and nihilistic, their living conditions are awful, their education is poor, their understanding of reality shaky, their love-lives non-existent, and so on.
So we know the reasons they are what they are, roughly, but that doesn't change what they are and their terrible effect on the rest of us. I apologize for this, but they must all be killed. There is no point in negotiation as they're incapable of it, there is no giving in to their demands anyway, there is nothing in their philosophy or cult that's worth saving, and the world needs a lot less humans.
This should be the international effort of the next couple of decades at least: find the members of terrorist organizations and slay every one of them. If it's done quickly enough, it'll overtake the rate of recruitment, and when there aren't any left to attempt recruiting, we'll be done.
I think we have a decent understanding of why these barbarians do these things by now. Their psychotic spin-off of Islam is pro-murder and nihilistic, their living conditions are awful, their education is poor, their understanding of reality shaky, their love-lives non-existent, and so on.
So we know the reasons they are what they are, roughly, but that doesn't change what they are and their terrible effect on the rest of us. I apologize for this, but they must all be killed. There is no point in negotiation as they're incapable of it, there is no giving in to their demands anyway, there is nothing in their philosophy or cult that's worth saving, and the world needs a lot less humans.
This should be the international effort of the next couple of decades at least: find the members of terrorist organizations and slay every one of them. If it's done quickly enough, it'll overtake the rate of recruitment, and when there aren't any left to attempt recruiting, we'll be done.
17
Sadly, I agree.
5
Thanks Bemused and I agree with the regret too. It took me many years to arrive at this conclusion, back in 2001 I was striving to find ways around it. I no longer think there are any viable alternatives.
1
We have had these terrorists attacks for decades. There was the first World Trade Center attack, the embassy attack in Kenya, 911 and many others, but these attacks are escalating. There has been no strategy for stopping terrorism and sadly there is no sign of one emerging. President Obama should either come up with a strategy or resign. Perhaps Joe Biden could. The world can't wait until 2017 to come up with a strategy to stop this madness.
10
Again, one learns much from foreign newspapers. This morning Die Welt, a major German broadsheet, carried an article covering the IS Islamists issuing a message that they are planning all out war on the West for 2016. The past is prologue, as someone said.
7
On a national news show a few nights ago, the governor of New Mexico had lots to say about America's illegal aliens using fake NM addresses to get unrestricted NM drivers licenses to move around legally in America and get other official documents with it. NM's Democrats refuse to restrict the licenses in any way.
4
@renant
And 'Der Spiegel', reported that this attack was specifically aimed at Paris. Again, another interesting connection overlooked by the U.S. media that overlooked the attacks in Nigeria, because it was too busy looking at France.
And 'Der Spiegel', reported that this attack was specifically aimed at Paris. Again, another interesting connection overlooked by the U.S. media that overlooked the attacks in Nigeria, because it was too busy looking at France.
Not exactly the `in your face headline' given to the Paris attacks, but at least it's `above the fold'. That's encouraging.
4
The one common thread running through all these attacks: Guns!
Terrorists have the NRA to thank for buying the politicians who won't even pass a simple law to check gun purchasers against known terrorists lists. I kid you not!
In any normal culture, the NRA would be considered a terrorist organization, or, at the very least, an accessory to murder.
Terrorists have the NRA to thank for buying the politicians who won't even pass a simple law to check gun purchasers against known terrorists lists. I kid you not!
In any normal culture, the NRA would be considered a terrorist organization, or, at the very least, an accessory to murder.
13
You do realize they make and sell guns outside of the U.S., right?
The NRA has nothing to do with terrorists gaining access to guns is West Africa, but nice try.
The NRA has nothing to do with terrorists gaining access to guns is West Africa, but nice try.
12
John, are you posting about the right article? I could consider the perspective if you were referring to the shooting at the church in Charleston, but what does the NRA have to do with terrorists in Mali or other parts of the world?
5
Actually John, the NRA has absolutely zero involvement in France or Mali. Guns are all over the world, yes, but that's not because of the NRA, it's because the main impetus for human technological advancement has always been how to kill humans easier in order to gain power.
1
Beyond religion or underlying it (in many forms, not just Muslim) is the desire for power over others at any price. Think of the past monsters of power: Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan, as well as the band of thugs plaguing us now. The lust for power has a multitude of names and justifications and behaviours, but it is all about the rupture of the bond between I and Thou.
1
One knows not how this is all going to end. Fundamentalists of Islam have decided to take on the world with all guns blazing and unfortunately, there is no way for the lay people to separate the moderates from the extremists of Islam. Public opinion in different countries has gathered heavily against Islam and this does not bode well for the Muslims around the world.
It is high time that the Muslims around the world take a few moments to do some intense self scrutiny and come out openly against their coreligionists and admit that there is something seriously amiss in their way of life. There is no room for political correctness and apologists. The liberals should stop making excuses for the Muslims , for they are doing a disservice to the ones whom they wish to protect.
For once a certain limit is crossed, public opinion could take a more vicious form which will spell disaster for the Muslims around the world. Then all will be lost and it may become too late to take corrective steps.
It is high time that the Muslims around the world take a few moments to do some intense self scrutiny and come out openly against their coreligionists and admit that there is something seriously amiss in their way of life. There is no room for political correctness and apologists. The liberals should stop making excuses for the Muslims , for they are doing a disservice to the ones whom they wish to protect.
For once a certain limit is crossed, public opinion could take a more vicious form which will spell disaster for the Muslims around the world. Then all will be lost and it may become too late to take corrective steps.
9
"There is no way for the lay people to separate the moderates from the extremists of Islam". What does that even mean- "they all look alike"?? This is just laughable if you are trying to offer an actual solution. Please require some seriousness of yourself.
What sources are you drawing your opinions from? Consider the Source is important right now.
What sources are you drawing your opinions from? Consider the Source is important right now.
6
given rk is from tx odds are you're wasting your time asking for seriousness.....my generalizing about texans is an attempt to illustrate the foolishness of rk's comment.
1
Please, you know perfectly well what it means.
1
This refers to a "harsh version of Islamic law." Is there any other version? And is "harsh" too mild a word for the barbaric brutality of Islamic law? Surely we may agree that the majority of Muslims world wide are kind, loving, modern people, and still recognize that Islamic law is as brutal and barbaric as were the Christian laws of Spain during the Inquisition. One can be a good Christian Spaniard today and have no desire to go back to that Christian law. Similarly, can any good Muslim today want Islamic law?
25
Well, at least a few public figures are calling a halt to the feeble claim that fundamentalist Islamism has nothing to do with . . . Islam.
5
I think the people that are holding the hostages and who murdered these innocent civilians are Muslim and practice Radical Islam. What do you say Hillary Clinton?
16
Interesting that the first nine paragraphs neither mention nor speculate about the nature of the attackers.
Finally, in paragraph # 10 of the article:
"It is still unclear who is responsible for the attack."
Finally, in paragraph #17:
"Kassim Trare, a Mallian journalist...[said]..the attackers had told hostages to recite a declaration of Muslim faith as a way separating Muslims from non-Muslims. Those who could recite the declaration, the Shahada, were allowed to leave the hotel."
Finally, in paragraph # 10 of the article:
"It is still unclear who is responsible for the attack."
Finally, in paragraph #17:
"Kassim Trare, a Mallian journalist...[said]..the attackers had told hostages to recite a declaration of Muslim faith as a way separating Muslims from non-Muslims. Those who could recite the declaration, the Shahada, were allowed to leave the hotel."
16
America is safer than those other countries because of her leaders' political correctness.
This is occurring because of the West's spineless approach to terrorism over the past few decades. When countries like France, Germany and Italy released terrorists to middle eastern sanctuaries because the target were Israelis or just plain Jews, thereby equivocating on whether terrorism is an abomination, they lost the respect of the those now committing these atrocities. It made them look fearful and vulnerable.
2
To the NYTimes: If it is unclear, as stated here, "It is still unclear who is responsible for the attack in Mali, but the country has long struggled with insurrection and Islamist extremism," then PLEASE do not add in a guess in your reporting. End the sentence at 'insurrection.'
2
I cannot believe any American preaches bad against who is in need.
Who is denying terrorists are doing everything to blend in innocent refugees and realizing their goals. no body is talking otherwise, there are evidences for that.
But since when a refugee thrown out or left un-helped because of this problem.
If we are claiming our humanity is going to prevail and Jesus advice taken serious turn the other side of face if you slapped, we must endure the difficulties.
You cannot abdicate humanity and own at the same time.
That is difference between US and ISIS
Who is denying terrorists are doing everything to blend in innocent refugees and realizing their goals. no body is talking otherwise, there are evidences for that.
But since when a refugee thrown out or left un-helped because of this problem.
If we are claiming our humanity is going to prevail and Jesus advice taken serious turn the other side of face if you slapped, we must endure the difficulties.
You cannot abdicate humanity and own at the same time.
That is difference between US and ISIS
I can't help but note that if this hotel was anywhere but an African nation (New York, London, Tokyo, Berlin) we'd see the massive banner headline the Times used in the Paris attack.
OK, now onto my comment.
We're coming to a time as a nation and as an international community where we need to decide if we actually eradicate as many of these terror groups as possible or if we just let them drip on us for an indefinite time.
We were hesitant to enter World War 2 until the jolting, unbelievable attack on Pearl Harbor. The French have just had such an attack and their leadership is clear it is war.
We had that will after 9/11 but the target was less clear and the enemy diffuse. We entered Afghanistan with many troops and then did the same (stupidly) in Iraq.
Today the enemy is more clear and actually has standing militaries - ISIS and Boko Haram. The world could engage in a decisive war to rid itself of these pests.
It's the aftermath that is murky.
An international Marshall plan for Iraq and Syria?
With whom as leaders? Parties of the coalition propping up indigenous leaders?
Do our interests match up post war?
How much do we spend in resources and money for how long? All this needs to be part of any military planning.
Fighting is easy compared to the clean up and governance.
Do we need another Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to move public opinion which now shuns actually sending troops to fight terror?
We could crush them.
Reply to my comment about what happens after.
OK, now onto my comment.
We're coming to a time as a nation and as an international community where we need to decide if we actually eradicate as many of these terror groups as possible or if we just let them drip on us for an indefinite time.
We were hesitant to enter World War 2 until the jolting, unbelievable attack on Pearl Harbor. The French have just had such an attack and their leadership is clear it is war.
We had that will after 9/11 but the target was less clear and the enemy diffuse. We entered Afghanistan with many troops and then did the same (stupidly) in Iraq.
Today the enemy is more clear and actually has standing militaries - ISIS and Boko Haram. The world could engage in a decisive war to rid itself of these pests.
It's the aftermath that is murky.
An international Marshall plan for Iraq and Syria?
With whom as leaders? Parties of the coalition propping up indigenous leaders?
Do our interests match up post war?
How much do we spend in resources and money for how long? All this needs to be part of any military planning.
Fighting is easy compared to the clean up and governance.
Do we need another Pearl Harbor or 9/11 to move public opinion which now shuns actually sending troops to fight terror?
We could crush them.
Reply to my comment about what happens after.
2
Disrupt daily life, divide developed countries and dominate the news. This is how ISIS will elect president Trump. These guys are good.
4
This latest tragic episode of gun-toting extremists mowing down African tourist innocents needs to be given exactly the same double bold typeface headline treatment given to the recent Parisian terrorism bloodbath and it needs to be followed up equally, forensically. As in the Parisian massacre, these men used, not bombs, but guns and automatic weaponry. WHERE is the source, origination of the gun pipeline. HOW are these guns being obtained. ARE they American made? Russian? Why do I have the distinct suspicion that our own government(s) are not telling us the truth about this but we would like some real answers here.
15
ISIS uses .38-cal. semi-automatic pistols purchased by the 1000s from the Chinese, the leading arms dealers in Africa and the Mideast for many years now, a PBS Frontline showed 3 nights ago. France, Germany, Sweden, Russia, Belgium, and the UK all compete for arms deals in Europe and Africa and SE Asia.
7
Let's see if the Times and other media give this as much attention as the Paris massacre.
Do black lives matter?
Do black lives matter?
9
There are many factors that will lead to less coverage, including cultural dissimilarity and a much lower body count.
Like it or not, in the human psychology, lives that seem similar to ours matter more to us than lives that seem dissimilar to ours. That is true across all groups.
Like it or not, in the human psychology, lives that seem similar to ours matter more to us than lives that seem dissimilar to ours. That is true across all groups.
4
Asked and answered centuries ago. Black lives do not matter, as painful as this is.
So far the Paris massacre is leading in column-inches and larger heds.
"It is still unclear who is responsible for the attack in Mali, but the country has long struggled with insurrection and Islamist extremism."
It is also still unclear whether or not there is intelligent life at the Times!
It is also still unclear whether or not there is intelligent life at the Times!
37
One can only wonder where next Friday's massacre will be.
10
"...what were these foreigners thinking when they decided to visit Mali?"
An authentic experience to brag about at cocktail parties, I'm sure. European and Caribbean holidays are just so blasé.
An authentic experience to brag about at cocktail parties, I'm sure. European and Caribbean holidays are just so blasé.
1
Why are you blaming, and worse insulting, the victims? Shameful.
14
Many are Chinese doing business in Mali. Read the coverage.
9
But aren't we saying again and again - don't give in to fear?
3
Had Pres. Bill Clinton not turned tail and abandoned Somalia solely because of 18 casualties in Black Hawk Down 21 years ago, the country would not have become world piracy HQ, then Al Shabbab HQ, and 1000s dead in attacks on Kenya, esp. Westgate Mall. Even the bombing of the US Embassy and the UN building in Nairobi, Kenya was not enough to prevent Clinton's retreat. At least the French did not abandon Chad, Mali, Cameroon, or Niger.
10
how about reagan and the marines in lebanon- talk about turning tail and running!!
5
The terrorists remind me of inarticulate people who, because they can't win arguments with logic, hit their opponents instead.
5
This is 2015. Hundred years ago, as a part of WWI, incredible atrocities took place in the Middle East that was, at that time, ruled by Turkey (the Ottomans). There was the massacre of the Armenians and many, many people were killed.
As a comment here says, by far not all Muslims are terrorists but most if not all terrorists are Muslims. My favorite Mr. Socrates writes today that poverty of too many people in the Middle East may be responsible. There many more poor people all over the world and they do NOT become terrorists.
Just read great non-fiction about the Ottomans hundred years ago. Not much has changed in one hundred years, except the suicidal vests.
As a comment here says, by far not all Muslims are terrorists but most if not all terrorists are Muslims. My favorite Mr. Socrates writes today that poverty of too many people in the Middle East may be responsible. There many more poor people all over the world and they do NOT become terrorists.
Just read great non-fiction about the Ottomans hundred years ago. Not much has changed in one hundred years, except the suicidal vests.
29
timothy mcveigh
ISIS has stated its purpose to "destroy the gray zone." The gray zone is a society where people of all faiths and people of no faith share mutual respect, tolerance and non-violence.
The ISIS strategy worked very well in Iraq, convincing moderate Sunni Muslims that the only option to protect their security (from the attacks of US-supported Shia death squads like the Wolf Brigade) was to join the Islamic State.
ISIS is following the same playbook in its attacks on Europe. It's primary western propagandists are European fascists like Le Pen and American opportunists like Sam Harris, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Ann Coulter, the GOP and other disseminators of hate.
The ISIS strategy worked very well in Iraq, convincing moderate Sunni Muslims that the only option to protect their security (from the attacks of US-supported Shia death squads like the Wolf Brigade) was to join the Islamic State.
ISIS is following the same playbook in its attacks on Europe. It's primary western propagandists are European fascists like Le Pen and American opportunists like Sam Harris, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Ann Coulter, the GOP and other disseminators of hate.
6
It sure looks like the terrorists are contained. Obama was right on the money again. I think i9f we talk nice to the terrorists they will stop trying to kill us and others around the world. Obama is a nice talker, I suggest he keep it up. It is obviously working.
20
Do you have a better solution?....Maybe one that includes you personally landing in boots on the ground?
5
He never said anything like you mention. If you can't deal in facts please be quiet
4
@Lusk
It was just a question. And actually a valid one which bears repeating. Do YOU have a better solution? And please, deal with the facts.
It was just a question. And actually a valid one which bears repeating. Do YOU have a better solution? And please, deal with the facts.
NYT: "But [Mali's] hold on the north remains weak. There are frequent attacks by Islamist fighters, particular on United Nations troops, in the northern provinces.
-------------------------
Was the same in Sudan, and Nigeria: a Christian south, an Islamist north. Sudan was partitioned. Maybe all such countries in sub-Saharan Africa should be.
-------------------------
Was the same in Sudan, and Nigeria: a Christian south, an Islamist north. Sudan was partitioned. Maybe all such countries in sub-Saharan Africa should be.
6
Why doesn't anyone discuss how this benefits the Saudi funders? If you keep your young men occupied attacking "infidels" elsewhere in the world, it will never occur to them to overthrow the corrupt regime at home - because it's always "Westerners" who are preventing these boys with weak minds from getting virgins and glory.
28
Yes, indeed. Our "friends" the Saudis have been exporting extremist terror for decades. What is the civilized world doing about it?
11
It's money.The Saudi's have contributed to political campaigns in this country for decades. They also pay for presidential libraries. They don't care what party you belong to as they fund each party equally. Both Bushes and Clinton took money for the construction of their libraries. On 9/11 Bin Ladens family was rushed out of the US. Have you ever heard an explanation? Follow the money!
7
Oh but, hey Americans democrats want us to turn in our guns so,we can be like these other countries. Lol
2
We are engaged in a world war, make no mistake about it.
21
like the 60 MILLION plus who died in wwII--or the 57,000 brits who died or were wounded on the FIRST DAY in the battle of the somme in wwI--- dont think so--- isis-- lets day daesh... must be crushed on all fronts, but crazy terroists will always be with us--but dont exagerate their power- they love this hyperbole and panic we are hearing- fortunately not from our president.
4
100 Million died in WW II. source: "The World At War," final episode, 1973; also, Robert Conquest, author.
3
Listen, if people with guns come into your home, work, cinema, etc... they are coming to kill you. If you can flee to safety then do it. Otherwise fight. Don't stand there waiting to be shot. Two gunmen and 170 hostages? Four gunmen and 80 dead? It is not heroic to fight. It is a mental game of high stakes prisoner's dilemma.
7
The prophecy by 3 illiterate peasant children age 7, 9, and 10, at Fatima, Portugal in 1917, culminating on Oct. 13, 1917 with a predicted "miracle of the sun" for 70,000 observers in a rainstorm, laid down the 3 augurs of WWII: "If mankind does not repent of WWI, a greater war will be sent by God; it will be preceded by "a great sign in the sky"; shortly thereafter a Pope named Pius XI will die." The latter 2 events happened in September 1938, incl. a 5-column hed atop a NYT page: "Mysterious Lights Seen Across Europe," with datelines from Oslo, London, Berlin, Edinburgh, etc. and sub-heds like, "Windsor Castle Thought Ablaze." It's in the NYT archive.
Based on that, the prophecy made to 6 teens in Medjugorje, Bosnia starting in 1981 on John the Baptist's memorial day, and continuing for many years, and accompanied by major miracles to dying persons like Colleen Willard and Rita Klaus, gains major credibility: "The world will end in your lifetimes, children." The visionaries were born in the mid-60s. The world is obviously ending, climate-wise, and from disease and plague and famine, and from incessant wars against Western civilization, and Christianity, and will fructify with a nuclear-armed Iran, and its desired martyrdom. The events I cite are examined by a former skeptic, Randall Sullivan, in "The Miracle Detective" (2002.)
Based on that, the prophecy made to 6 teens in Medjugorje, Bosnia starting in 1981 on John the Baptist's memorial day, and continuing for many years, and accompanied by major miracles to dying persons like Colleen Willard and Rita Klaus, gains major credibility: "The world will end in your lifetimes, children." The visionaries were born in the mid-60s. The world is obviously ending, climate-wise, and from disease and plague and famine, and from incessant wars against Western civilization, and Christianity, and will fructify with a nuclear-armed Iran, and its desired martyrdom. The events I cite are examined by a former skeptic, Randall Sullivan, in "The Miracle Detective" (2002.)
3
No it's not. The problem with predicting in generalities is that people can "fulfill" the prophesy with whatever occurs later that they think fits. It's a common human trait.
In reality, the world is pretty well fed with poverty and famine at historical lows. Peace has broken out all over the world. There are some fights that affect a single population unjustly, but there always have been.
Technology has brought about great productivity gains. Most people don't have to eke out a living doing manual labor.
Many diseased have been wiped off the map. Good healthcare is available to billions of people.
Overall, everything is going fine.
In reality, the world is pretty well fed with poverty and famine at historical lows. Peace has broken out all over the world. There are some fights that affect a single population unjustly, but there always have been.
Technology has brought about great productivity gains. Most people don't have to eke out a living doing manual labor.
Many diseased have been wiped off the map. Good healthcare is available to billions of people.
Overall, everything is going fine.
3
The world responds: "Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated".
Reading your missive reminds me that ALL religions are nonsense.
Reading your missive reminds me that ALL religions are nonsense.
3
Muslims need to recognize that this a problem within their faith that they need to confront head on. Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram (it literally means Book Is Haram!!!), Al-Shabab, ISIS, they are all Islamic terrorist group. Muslims around the world cannot get defensive when you point out that they ought to start to speak up. I grew up in a Muslim country and I know for a fact that average Muslims are down right scared to speak up against radical version of Islam and thus the radical version of Islam gets spread without any challenge. This cannot be continuing and unless Muslims rise up en masse to stop Saudi Wahabis to export the harshest version of Koran, I am afraid nothing will change. There is no central leader for the Muslims. I think Hollande or Obama can start the conversation so that Islam can be modernized and discussed openly. But again coming from a non-Muslim leader this will be seen as Islamophobic!
28
Boko Haram (it literally means Book Is Haram!!!),
----------------
BBC.com: The official name of the Boko Haram group is actually Jama'atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda'awati wal-Jihad, which in Arabic means "People of the Sunnah (the practise and examples of the Prophet Muhammad's life) for Preaching and Jihad Group".
But the Hausa-speaking residents in the north-eastern city of Maiduguri, where the group had its headquarters, dubbed it Boko Haram, meaning "Western education is a sin"....
----------------
BBC.com: The official name of the Boko Haram group is actually Jama'atu Ahlis Sunna Lidda'awati wal-Jihad, which in Arabic means "People of the Sunnah (the practise and examples of the Prophet Muhammad's life) for Preaching and Jihad Group".
But the Hausa-speaking residents in the north-eastern city of Maiduguri, where the group had its headquarters, dubbed it Boko Haram, meaning "Western education is a sin"....
A technicality: "Boko" is actually a Hausa word meaning "fake." It references secular Western education.
1
World leaders all refuse to discuss the Saudi problem. We kowtow to those people because they have oil and money. The French and Americans are not serious when they continue selling arms to the Saudis. They are treated with respect in all Western capitals and why, when they export Wahhabism worldwide trying to impose their barbaric practices on previously tolerant Muslim societies. They fund terrorists worldwide and faced no consequences (in fact the State Department facilitated the departure from the U.S. of well connected Saudis) after 9/11 - we hardly even mention that the majority of those killers were Saudi. We look at the ISIS killers and their practices with horror yet there's barely a peep when the very same barbarity is meted out in Saudi Arabia under the facade of sharia law. The whole war on terror saber rattling will remain a joke until western leaders get a backbone and stop practicing such laughable hypocrisy.
1
Even as much as we Americans would like to think that NYC is the only place in the world worth protecting - and proved it with all the media publicity on how security was so stepped up there - wouldn't you think that then would be the last place any terrorist would strike? Personally, I think all this talk about a "war on terrorism" is just that and just a veiled justification for each politician to build up bigger and stronger wall around their own fortresses.
In the end the terrorists will probably have won when they can roam freely everywhere on earth outside the castle walls, leaving the rest of us all trapped inside.
In the end the terrorists will probably have won when they can roam freely everywhere on earth outside the castle walls, leaving the rest of us all trapped inside.
6
The number one way to stop terrorism like this is to cut off the cash flow. With that being said, ending our infantile belief in all things supernatural would also go a long way towards minimizing behavior like this. The belief in the supernatural (things that cannot be proved nor disproved) allows for people to abuse others by invoking the supernatural. When one can make the argument that their actions are the will of some being, how can you prove or disprove that? It opens the door wide open to gullible followers to be taken advantage of. I am going to be lambasted but, all religions are the problem. From extremists to the most tolerant moderates, those of us who allow the belief in the supernatural to be not only accepted but celebrated are creating a space for the most horrific abuses in the name of one supernatural belief or the other.
What it boils down to is the fact that, evil as these religious extremists are, if you subscribe to any sort of supernatural belief, moderate or extreme, you have that in common with them.
I take solace in knowing that I do not share this common thread.
What it boils down to is the fact that, evil as these religious extremists are, if you subscribe to any sort of supernatural belief, moderate or extreme, you have that in common with them.
I take solace in knowing that I do not share this common thread.
19
Totally unclear who gets the ISIS oil. By now the US should know but no White House reports on this most critical issue. Obviously an elephant in the room. Why!
12
We need to allow more Muslim refugees from africa into the USA. More Muslims from Syria and Jordan and Iraq, and everywhere, too. We want more Muslims!
21
I am thinking that Goose Creek, South Carolina, really doesn't have to worry about being overrun with Muslims any time soon.
4
The criminals who are terrorists....are pirates....not Muslims...
Muslims denounce these terrorists/pirates ..who are enemies of civilized
societies around the world.
Global pirates who have stolen wealth of Iraq, Syria...and now Mali et al.
are the terrorists...I would hope that the cogent who call themselves
responsible journalists of the NYTimes...will FINALLY call these pirates/terrorists what they are...and they are NOT MUSLIMS...they only
co opt this religion to cause fear and divisiveness...BE AWARE editors we
hold you accountable for printing what you avow to print...All the news which
is..(indeed) fit to print...keep up your standards...we will edit you ...!!!
Muslims denounce these terrorists/pirates ..who are enemies of civilized
societies around the world.
Global pirates who have stolen wealth of Iraq, Syria...and now Mali et al.
are the terrorists...I would hope that the cogent who call themselves
responsible journalists of the NYTimes...will FINALLY call these pirates/terrorists what they are...and they are NOT MUSLIMS...they only
co opt this religion to cause fear and divisiveness...BE AWARE editors we
hold you accountable for printing what you avow to print...All the news which
is..(indeed) fit to print...keep up your standards...we will edit you ...!!!
3
Sorry, CBRussell, these terrorists are Muslims. The are dedicated to the austere and repressive sect of Wahhabism, which is Sunni. They may be psychopaths in the name of Allah, but Sunnis they are.
It is not enough for some Muslims to denounce these terrorists. It is necessary for the Sunni theocracies to invade the ISIS sanctuaries with Sunni forces and exterminate the ISIS terrorists.
It is not enough for some Muslims to denounce these terrorists. It is necessary for the Sunni theocracies to invade the ISIS sanctuaries with Sunni forces and exterminate the ISIS terrorists.
7
Wow! Do you think the attackers are Muslims or Islamist? It doesn't say in the Times article until about 10 paragraphs in, and then the Times hedges and says it's "unclear". The Times is right! Maybe it's Morman missionaries from Utah this time, or some Bhudists or Jews. Totally unclear.
45
Rational thought? Ironic username I guess for someone who confuses probability statistics. Because these assaults are largely committed by muslims does not mean that muslims are the people we should be fearing.
2
Actually, it does not say that at all. Good journalists report what they can verify and don't speculate.
2
If you want your news from a source that jumps to conclusions watch Fox "news"
3
at th end of his amusing movie, religulous, bill maher exhorts humanity to , vis a vis religion, 'grow up , or die'
looks like humanity has chosen door # 2
looks like humanity has chosen door # 2
9
For all those who insist that it's only the Muslim religion that breeds these murderous sociopaths, I have one counterpoint: the Ku Klux Klan. The KKK murdered and intimidated blacks, Jews and other minorities for decades after the Civil War, and continue to foment racist attitudes throughout this country in the present day, all the while wrapping themselves in the cloak of Christianity. The problem isn't religion, it's intolerance disguised as such.
16
Well, the Klan was not a worldwide religion. Although they may have called themselves Christian, there was nothing in their New Testament that encouraged or demanded death to non believers.
5
Let's not forget Ireland, the Wars of Religion, the Crusades. . . .
Interesting how the word Muslim doesn't appear until the 8th paragraph.
27
Not to sound cynical, but I was beginning to wonder when Africa would get into the spotlight. The recent attacks in Nigeria got barely a mention, with Paris in the headlines. What does that say?
6
I guess Africa has nothing we need.
1
N. Smith is right on target. There's been a plethora of attacks on civilians by suicide bombing where markets were destroyed and civilians killed and wounded. Only two days ago another explosion killed dozens.
I haven't seen any mention of these outrages in any US media. Only where white people are killed is there any news.
I haven't seen any mention of these outrages in any US media. Only where white people are killed is there any news.
5
Do you mean the gold, oil, diamonds, minerals, and everything else the Chinese have laid claimed to ????
We need to find out wherever these attackers come from and immediately expand our visa programs and asylum offerings to that area. Because "that's who we are. "
21
If there were a flood of refugees from that area, so large a flood that multiple countries were required to handle it, then we probably would. But there isn't. Does that clarify things for you?
1
After each of these attacks, it is reported that militants and their supporters are celebrating on Twitter. Why is Twitter not banning these people? Why do they continue to give them a platform?
18
Perhaps so they may be tracked.
3
Because the Twitter organization owners are morons. Fortunately, Anonymous is actively shutting down terrorist twitter accounts as well as other social media accounts
3
Perhaps because it would be anti-egalitarian, non-pluralistic and unwelcoming of Twitter to give them the boot?
2
I've read many comments in a variety of articles wondering why so many terrorists are Muslims, and not of other faiths. The commenters forget about all the American terrorists who terrorize on their own soil, this includes a long list of names from Timothy McVeigh to Adam Lanza (Sandy Hook) to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine). We don't look at all white male Americans with suspicion, but rather examine the individual lives of these people to see what drove them to become so disaffected and angry so as to lash out in such horrific ways. We need to look at the terrorists, who happen to be Muslim, through the same lens. Focusing on the Muslim religion is a distraction from finding the true cause of the terrorist acts.
18
Fundamentalism is a common thread. yes, fundamentalist islam is a threat to civilization, as is fundamentalist Christianity, and Judaism, and just about anything else people insist is "truth"
4
There is a big difference between an individual psychopath (Lanza, Klebold) and tens of thousands of people acting in concert with a discreet political agenda (Islamic terrorists). The Qu'ran and Hadith tell us something about the motivation for Islamic terrorism, but tens of thousands of violent attacks throughout the world since 9/11 are multi-determined.
6
There is no need to find the true cause of the terrorist acts. They tell us what the "true cause" is with every terror event. They are doing this in the name of Islam. It is immaterial that most Muslims are not terrorists. They are also not mentally ill or economically disadvantaged. They are warriors for their religion and are willing to die and kill to achieve what they believe is Islam's goal.
5
I am sure Kerry and Obama are searching for a rationale for this hostage situation unfolding in Mali. Maybe, they can blame the anti-Prophet video that "triggered" "spontaneous protests" leading to the death of our Ambassador in Libya.
Is the world becoming a more dangerous place under Obama "leadership" or does it seem that way?
Is the world becoming a more dangerous place under Obama "leadership" or does it seem that way?
17
Compare the president's record to his predecessor's.
5
It does seem the world is becoming a more dangerous place....and I think a credible argument could be made that the Bush administration's thoughtless entry into Iraq may have opened the can of ugly worms that set it on this path.
5
I am sure it was the same rationale that resulted in the bombing of the Marine barracks when Ronald Reagan was President (283 Marines died) or the TWA hijacking in the mid 80s and the murder of Leon Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro and all the other terrorist attacks that occurred during 1980s that Ronald Reagan did nothing to stop.
3
"Islam's Bloody Borders"- the term historian Samuel Huntington used to describe the reliable phenomenon of Islam's violent interaction with its non-Islamic neighbors everywhere around the globe.
21
Im floored that there are still people foolish enough to go to a country like Mali, or for that matter nearly any other African one. The world's most dangerous place, beside the streets of Baltimore, has some of the lowest ratings of all countries in many areas of social importance. Mali should be written off as a no-go spot except for those with death wish.
13
Brilliant! And where are Mumbai, Oslo, Bali, Oklahoma City, Sandy Hook, Paris, to name just a few?
5
The US should be written off as a no-go spot, given how many Americans are killed through gun violence every year ... 33,000 and counting. And your state is a leader in that unfortunate statistic ...
8
The French say, "In for a sous, in for a franc." They cannot extricate themselves, they need the natural resources of the country.
3
Is it a good idea to disclose the fact that people are hiding on the roof while hostage takers are still in the building (and likely have cell phones)?
19
Tomorrow's news: Obama will propose Refugees from Mali to be brought into the USA
11
@Parrot
Perhaps not, as they will most likely be flown back to their home countries.
Perhaps not, as they will most likely be flown back to their home countries.
1
Just confirms that terrorism has become a global phenomenon and the target is everyone, every country on this planet. One even begins to wonder if the internet is a good thing because it is enabling global terrorism. Much as we think that terrorism is only against the West, maybe viewing with a tunnel vision. Witness the terror attacks in Mumbai, Bora Bora, Lebanon, Nairobi, Turkey. The numbers killed and maimed are enormous. And let's face it. These vile acts have an organized, systematic, sophisticated approach. They seem to be deliberate, carried out after careful studying and well-thought plans. Unless there is tremendous funding, these murderous plans cannot be carried out. The kidnappings, drugs cannot allow terrorism on such a grand scale, unless it is State sponsored. And which country is rich enough, has an extreme form of Islam, which funds 'madrasses' in all parts of the world training the young to hate, allowing recruitment under the radar so that the enemy come from within and most important, the terrorists being all Sunnis? Only one State meets all these criteria - SAUDI ARABIA. Witness almost total silence if not condemnation of the dastardly attack on Paris. And we call them, our allies. It's time to completely break ties with this terrorist state and hurt them where it hurts most - their pocket-book with the STRICT SANCTIONS!
12
After each terrorist attack the perpetrators now can be certain Western governments will bomb more innocent Middle Eastern civilians in their quest to defeat and punish ISIS.
They now know that all they have to do is shoot and bomb some Americans and Europeans to provoke more violence which will in turn lead to more hatred and create more terrorists.
The Islamic State and its supporters seek to further destabilize the world and destroy their enemies.
They plan to use fear to get Western countries to abandon their values such as human rights and freedom from state surveillance. They watch with satisfaction as these countries deteriorate internally because they have wasted trillions of dollars in order to stay safe.
As far as I can see the terrorists are winning.
They now know that all they have to do is shoot and bomb some Americans and Europeans to provoke more violence which will in turn lead to more hatred and create more terrorists.
The Islamic State and its supporters seek to further destabilize the world and destroy their enemies.
They plan to use fear to get Western countries to abandon their values such as human rights and freedom from state surveillance. They watch with satisfaction as these countries deteriorate internally because they have wasted trillions of dollars in order to stay safe.
As far as I can see the terrorists are winning.
4
I agree with much of what you say, but you still leave us with the question: what then should we do?
Whenever I read attacks on the approaches suggested by the left, attacks on the approach currently being followed by our government, and attacks on the approaches suggested by the right, I am always still left with the question: what then should we do?
It's like reading a Maureen Dowd column: all tear-down and no build-up.
Whenever I read attacks on the approaches suggested by the left, attacks on the approach currently being followed by our government, and attacks on the approaches suggested by the right, I am always still left with the question: what then should we do?
It's like reading a Maureen Dowd column: all tear-down and no build-up.
1
You are giving them way too much credit. Anyone who would blow themselves up to serve an ideological point is not exactly examining the subtle nuances of their belief. I highly doubt that the 20-30 year old jihadists have any real understanding of how they could possibly destabilize a country. They mostly just want to inflict the pain that they feel on others.
I am so tired of hearing "the terrorists are winning." They live in pure poverty in extremely harsh conditions and are minutes, hours, days, or weeks from certain death. We live in a relatively calm and free society where we may at times have fear. Only the most disingenuous false equivalency could really argue that they somehow are winning or could ever win. They may get what they think they want from time to time, but that hardly makes them winners.
I am so tired of hearing "the terrorists are winning." They live in pure poverty in extremely harsh conditions and are minutes, hours, days, or weeks from certain death. We live in a relatively calm and free society where we may at times have fear. Only the most disingenuous false equivalency could really argue that they somehow are winning or could ever win. They may get what they think they want from time to time, but that hardly makes them winners.
10
I'm still waiting for the so called moderate Muslim leaders to speak up and condemn all of this growing violence. Thus far, it's been a long wait and very little said. As each event unfolds and we witness the slaughter of innocent people it is going to become more and more difficult for our political leaders to keep a lid on this. The world is losing its patience and I fear that a tremendous backlash is coming soon.
142
Moderate Muslim leaders constantly and sharply condemn these attacks. You just don't want to listen, or you're just listening to Fox News.
12
If you are waiting to hear moderate Muslims and Muslim leaders to speak out, you must not watch the news or read the newspapers to read coverage of the protests by Muslims against the violence, including a huge protest in the Muslim neighborhood in which the leader of the Paris attack was killed, or the photos of various protests--not just in France, as well as ads taken out by various Muslim groups repudiating ISIS and Al-Qaeda, and the interviews with Muslims, and the thousands of Muslims on social media...
When they do speak out and condemn these attacks, what happens? Apparently lots of people out there are not listening. On social media I saw lots of people responding to these condemnations by saying: I don't believe you. I hate all Muslims. You are a liar. and so on and so on.
When they do speak out and condemn these attacks, what happens? Apparently lots of people out there are not listening. On social media I saw lots of people responding to these condemnations by saying: I don't believe you. I hate all Muslims. You are a liar. and so on and so on.
133
The liberal logic which insists that this is all not about Islam leads to the dead end. One has to ask about the home upbringing of the young Muslims by their "moderate" families - we keep hearing about slick ISIS propaganda seducing young Muslims in the west and how we have to somehow "counter" it. Shouldn't the fact that they savagely kill by thousands be enough ? How is that that they find the sales pitch from a death cult which beheads people en mass attractive and seductive? How must these young people see others who are not of the same religion ? - it speaks to how Islam values non-Muslim life.
9
if america destroyed th saudi oil fields, just to rattle them, say, would americans be willing to drive small cars, use less electricity, and other products made from oil ?
man, that was a stupid question, wasnt it
man, that was a stupid question, wasnt it
28
Yes, it was. Saudi Arabia has the fourth largest military budget in the world. Bombing their remaining wealth would unleash a world war. Iran can trade with N Korea and have a bomb very quickly, and it would use it on its arch-enemy Sunni Saudi.
2
Or we could put a user tax on oil from the middle east to pay for the U.S. portion of U.S. Central Command operations that support the flow of 700 million barrels of oil per year from the Persian gulf. That would drive up the cost of Saudi oil to the point where Bakken and Permian drilling would resume. Just for perspective, Bakken production has increased from almost nothing to 350 million barrels per day since 2007. So wee could easily replace the Persian gulf region as an oil supplier if the true price of that oil was absorbed in the price of those imports rather than into the military budget.
1
The US gets far more oil from Canada than from all the OPEC nations combined.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
2
Every religion has it's extremists. To expect that religion to resolve it is unrealistic. It is better to see them as insurgents and insurgencies are usually the problem of that sovereign country - whichever it maybe. We can only hope that civilized countries do not fund or support such extremists. Unfortunately they do including the US at various times in history. Perhaps, once again, the world is missing leaders like Gandhi, Mandela and MLK who sort to resolve grievances in a non-violent manner. Both Gandhi and MLK used their religion as a spiritual strength to help them withstand the struggle but not as an excuse for violence.
4
I wish you were correct, but this growing phenomenon is global, and washing our hands of the problem and pretending that sovereign governments can deal with it locally is fantasy.
The world is one community now in many important ways, whether we like it or not.
The world is one community now in many important ways, whether we like it or not.
Once again, we are seeing that Obama's incompetence has emboldened the terrorists to murder innocent people in different areas of the world. How much more can America deal with a president who plays the cowardly lion role so well. Every day of an Obama administration places this country in more danger for terrorists to infiltrate across the open borders created by Obama, and the unwillingness of Obama to meet these threats head on shows that he doesn't belong in the White House, and needs to resign.
13
Not going to happen.
And just what, exactly, would you do? Drop a dozen Big One's throughout the Middle East? Try to get a grasp on the complexities involved.
4
Actually, the French did pretty good job of cleaning up the Islamic terrorist mess a few years ago. Not a perfect job, as there are apparently still many isolated bands still active, but at one time about half the country was completely controlled by Islamic terrorists.
While I understand that life goes on, even in parts of the world stricken by poverty, violence and extreme religious fundamentalism, what were these foreigners thinking when they decided to visit Mali? I can think of no business or touristic incentive that would beckon me to visit that part of the world, or for that matter, any other part of the world that is a known hotbed for jihadist extremism. Sadly, France is edging closer to becoming part of that no-travel-zone territory for me, along with most of Africa, Israel and every Arabic country. It's just common sense.
12
I can understand your reaction, but could you told me how many people dead in new york street, just walking (or jwalking) or riding their bike ? Statistic, on of the American specialties could show us than we have more chance to dead in accident in France than killed by terrorists.
Why do foreigners visit Mali? Well, it's not for the beaches. It may be simply for gold, I believe there are more than 150 foreign contracts for proven untapped gold reserves. The last figure i have is from 2011 =which estimates more than 80 tons of gold exported.- up from 50 tons in 2007. And the workers are not, as you may expect, overpaid. You do the math. Some believe these estimates are low - as the government only gets a pc of the revenue (which government officials get a bit more under the table- which, in what is considered the 3rd poorest nation in Africa)
1
funny, a lot of people from other countries already have made the U.S. a no travel zone, after all roughly 13,000 people a year get gunned down on the streets of America.
2
I hope all the politically correct folks take note that this attack is being covered in the western press. After all we wouldn't want to miss out on radical islamists trying to kill muslims and others in Mali.
14
#prayformali
2
"...the attackers had told hostages to recite a declaration of Muslim faith as a way separating Muslims from non-Muslims. Those who could recite the declaration, the Shahada, were allowed to leave the hotel. The Shabab, a Qaeda affiliate in East Africa, used a similar approach in the attack at the Westgate Mall in Nairobi in 2013."
So our regressive liberals and conservative pals of the Saudis will have us believe that the never-ending violence from these extremists has nothing to do with Islam. Those of us who raise our voices that this religion is long overdue for reform will continue to bear the slurs of Islamophobe and xenophobe until someone in power with some sense starts recognizing the problem where it truly lays.
So our regressive liberals and conservative pals of the Saudis will have us believe that the never-ending violence from these extremists has nothing to do with Islam. Those of us who raise our voices that this religion is long overdue for reform will continue to bear the slurs of Islamophobe and xenophobe until someone in power with some sense starts recognizing the problem where it truly lays.
55
The Saudis have been paying extortion money to keep the radical Islamic terrorists from causing havoc at home. But that will only last for a while until the worm turns. The Saudis rulers are pretty happy with the way things are - and with the support of the U.S. government. On the other hand, they are not nuts about being stabbed in the back by Obama funding the arming of Iran. Shows they are not totally insane.
3
Tell me more about how liberals are in bed with Saudis, and GOP is not.
3
We are no different when we only want "Christian" Syrians to come to America. Religion should never be a test of anything, especially one's freedom.
The inbreeding of widespread poverty and Islamic religion by Middle Eastern authoritarianism governments has produced religious plutonium.
Take a bow Saudi Arabia - you bankrolled the global Wahhabism/Salifism movement with oil money that has mutated into a worldwide 'cult of death' in the name 'Allah'.
The religion of peace has become a poverty stricken Middle Eastern 'cult of death'.
Take a bow Saudi Arabia - you bankrolled the global Wahhabism/Salifism movement with oil money that has mutated into a worldwide 'cult of death' in the name 'Allah'.
The religion of peace has become a poverty stricken Middle Eastern 'cult of death'.
484
And just two days after the Paris attack, Obama agreed to sell an additional $1.2 billion of bombs to Saudi Arabia - the better to slaughter more Yemenis with.
4
Kudos
Yet you can't hear one single criticism from GOP or democratic side against Saudi's or emirates.
Silence is deafening even disturbing the victims of ISIS.
Yet you can't hear one single criticism from GOP or democratic side against Saudi's or emirates.
Silence is deafening even disturbing the victims of ISIS.
12
As per always, Socrates clears the air.
4
The continual repetition of modern hostage taking and the shooting of groups of people who greatly outnumber the attackers reveal an effective numbers based tactic for reducing the casualties and disarming the attackers: It will be difficult to teach, learn and implement and will require that the victims overcome their fear and act contrary to their instincts -- the way our brave first responders did on 9/11. As soon as the attackers make themselves known to the crowd -- verbally or by shooting -- the crowd screams "ATTACK! ATTACK! in unison and immediately races en masse towards the attackers and overcomes, kills or captures them. Some innocents will be killed and injured and some may even be trampled but far fewer will be hurt than without this counterintuitive tactic. And if it becomes widely practiced, it will be the strongest possible deterrent for future attacks. The current frequency and deadliness of such shootings makes it more psychologically possible for a crowd of potential victims to implement the suggested tactic for overcoming the shooters. Training in this tactic should be made available to everyone.
5
"As soon as the attackers make themselves known to the crowd -- verbally or by shooting -- the crowd screams "ATTACK! ATTACK! in unison and immediately races en masse towards the attackers and overcomes, kills or captures them."
Ok, you go first. Or how about your wife and child go first?
It's really easy to say this. It's easy to understand why this would quite possibly work. But it's really really really hard to actually do it when the time comes.
Ok, you go first. Or how about your wife and child go first?
It's really easy to say this. It's easy to understand why this would quite possibly work. But it's really really really hard to actually do it when the time comes.
10
In response to "Dave K's" reply to my post: You are absolutely right to point out how really hard it is to do when the time comes. Personally I would prefer to die trying to disarm the attackers rather than cower in fear hoping they do not shoot me and I would be willing to go first. But the whole idea is that no one has to go first -- that everyone aggressively yelling ATTACK! ATTACK serves as a united command for the entire crowd to go on the offensive and attack en masse, to surge as one overwhelming and overpowering unit against the greatly outnumbered shooters. We saw a model of this on 9/11 when the brave passengers stormed the hijackers with the historic battle cry, "Let's roll!"
4
Actually that is what happened on that French high speed train. Those 4 men took stock of the shooter and attacked.
1
Now where did the Boko Haram tribesmen get all those high-powered military weapons and other equipment?
Why, from the aftermath of the destruction of Libya, of course, and the killing of the insane Libyan dictator who held that country together, Muammar Gaddafi.
The safest route from Libya for escaping Libyan military, especially those Malian Tuareg tribesmen whom Gaddafi had employed as military, was straight south through the desert, and they fled back home heavily armed with tons of looted weaponry from Gaddafi's stockpiles of military hardware.
What we're looking at with events like this in Bamako is another unexpected consequence of the removal of a brutal dictator just because we don't like him. Let me amend that. This consequence was unexpected by uninformed, unthinking politicians in Paris, Rome, London and Washington who thought it might be a great idea to finally get rid of Gaddafi, without having a replacement strongman to plug into the vacuum they would create.
The lesson from removing Saddam Hussein in Iraq was clearly not learned.
Now we have another brutal, murderous dictator, Assad, who has killed over 100,000 of his own countrymen and destroyed much of Syria. If we remove him from power, who and what do we replace him with? Tough as this is to accept, he might just be better than the alternative.
Why, from the aftermath of the destruction of Libya, of course, and the killing of the insane Libyan dictator who held that country together, Muammar Gaddafi.
The safest route from Libya for escaping Libyan military, especially those Malian Tuareg tribesmen whom Gaddafi had employed as military, was straight south through the desert, and they fled back home heavily armed with tons of looted weaponry from Gaddafi's stockpiles of military hardware.
What we're looking at with events like this in Bamako is another unexpected consequence of the removal of a brutal dictator just because we don't like him. Let me amend that. This consequence was unexpected by uninformed, unthinking politicians in Paris, Rome, London and Washington who thought it might be a great idea to finally get rid of Gaddafi, without having a replacement strongman to plug into the vacuum they would create.
The lesson from removing Saddam Hussein in Iraq was clearly not learned.
Now we have another brutal, murderous dictator, Assad, who has killed over 100,000 of his own countrymen and destroyed much of Syria. If we remove him from power, who and what do we replace him with? Tough as this is to accept, he might just be better than the alternative.
30
Let's recall that there are many wealthy and corrupt Nigerians helping to fund Boko Haram and egging them on to do their utmost destruction to the "infidels." Something about men losing their cultural advantage of gender dominance, perhaps...
2
Again, it is the Muslims. When will people learn what they are about? It is good that the US Government is not allowing a full throttle immigration from Syria at this time. It is normal and logical.
57
It's not Muslims in general, it's Muslim radicals.
3
You characterize it as "the Muslims," meaning all of them I guess. That raises the question: if it's all of them, then how do you propose to make war against 1.7 billion people located throughout the entire world?
1
Get your facts straight. Obama wanted to bring 15,000 Syrians into the U.S.,
but Congress overwhelmingly passed the SAFE act to deter him. Obama has been encouraging a massive influx of foreigners for years now, and the Left has been cheering him on. Just where do the loyalties of these people lie?
but Congress overwhelmingly passed the SAFE act to deter him. Obama has been encouraging a massive influx of foreigners for years now, and the Left has been cheering him on. Just where do the loyalties of these people lie?
Gratitude to the brave people working to save the hostages.
26
There is a very clear theme: radical Islam is using violence to kill people. Their goal is to eradicate Western values and impose their version of Islamic Law. This attack appears to involve remnants of Al-Qaeda, the Paris attacks involved ISIS, but the underlying motivation is the same: Radical Islam.
Islam is a beautiful religion, but we must have the courage to call out the people who kill in the name of their religion. When will our leaders have the courage to do that? How many innocent lives will be sacrificed before they have the courage to stand up to evil?
Islam is a beautiful religion, but we must have the courage to call out the people who kill in the name of their religion. When will our leaders have the courage to do that? How many innocent lives will be sacrificed before they have the courage to stand up to evil?
212
religion, all religion, is an ugly thing
they prey on weak minded people using fear, hate and ignorance
there is NOTHING that is 'beautiful' about any religion
they prey on weak minded people using fear, hate and ignorance
there is NOTHING that is 'beautiful' about any religion
Were the Crusades an attempt to wipe out Arabian morals, or just an attempt to kill as many Arabs as possible?
All religions have skeletons, and not merely in the closet.
All religions have skeletons, and not merely in the closet.
2
Calling it "radical Islam" does not have anything to do with courage, and it will not save lives. Doing so has only to do with oversimplification, reinforcing the mistaken but too-widely-held notion that Islam is invariably violent and anti-Western. When the Irish Republican Army was committing terrorist acts against Protestants in northern Ireland we did not call that Radical Catholicism. Had the news media or the Nixon, Ford, Carter or Reagan administrations done so, there would have been a ferocious outcry. The only difference here is that the current administration's critics don't include any Muslims so they don't mind causing offense.
2
Should I be surprised that I don't hear the same argument I hear about domestic gun violence applied to terrorist violence abroad? When weapons are available, they get used by some subset of people in horrible ways. We keep on developing the weapons part of the equation, but we don't seem to address the people-who-are-willing-to-commit-such-violence part, or more importantly, the result of mixing the two factors, weaponry and willingness to kill. Something similar seems to be true for non-weapon technological advances like social media and online financial software -- whether it's terrorism recruiting or hacking and criminal profit, if tools can be used for benign purposes, they can also be used for ones that victimize others. My thought is that technology escalates and amplifies conflict and its casualties, that we don't address that, probably because we like the positive aspects of technological innovation, and that we, like generations of our ancestors before us, have yet to effectively address the weaknesses of human nature, the weaknesses that put technology to use to cause harm.
6
ISIS not only shoots guns, but also enslaves, rapes, burns alive, and crucifies.
8
Sue Taylor,
I take your point, but I think that ISIS depends on weaponry and technology in order to be more than a local gang. That local gang might engage in the low tech atrocities you list, but I don't think it would have the same reach without the weapons and technology.
I take your point, but I think that ISIS depends on weaponry and technology in order to be more than a local gang. That local gang might engage in the low tech atrocities you list, but I don't think it would have the same reach without the weapons and technology.
1
And still Obama is terrified to use the word Islamist when he refers to radical Islamist terrorism.
Until we look the enemy in the face and call it for what it is, an ideology hiding behind the mask of a major religion, we cannot even get to step one of fighting these maniacs whose goal is our destruction.
This is war and we must identify the enemy.
Yes, many Muslims are peace-loving people. But quite a few are not. Their religion preaches Jihad, war against the non-believer.
The Koran, their bible, contains at least 164 verses promoting jihad.
The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
We cannot just pretend that their beliefs are identical to ours.
Until we look the enemy in the face and call it for what it is, an ideology hiding behind the mask of a major religion, we cannot even get to step one of fighting these maniacs whose goal is our destruction.
This is war and we must identify the enemy.
Yes, many Muslims are peace-loving people. But quite a few are not. Their religion preaches Jihad, war against the non-believer.
The Koran, their bible, contains at least 164 verses promoting jihad.
The Koran’s 164 Jihad Verses: K 002:178-179, 190-191, 193-194, 216-218, 244; 003:121-126, 140-143, 146, 152-158, 165-167,169, 172-173, 195; 004:071-072, 074-077, 084, 089-091, 094-095,100-104; 005:033, 035, 082; 008:001, 005, 007, 009-010, 012, 015-017, 039-048,057-060, 065-075; 009:005, 012-014, 016, 019-020, 024-026, 029,036, 038-039, 041, 044, 052, 073, 081, 083,086, 088, 092, 111, 120, 122-123; 016:110; 022:039, 058, 078; 024:053, 055; 025:052; 029:006, 069; 033:015, 018, 020, 023, 025-027, 050; 042:039; 047:004, 020, 035; 048:015-024; 049:015; 059:002, 005-008, 014; 060:009; 061:004, 011, 013; 063:004; 064:014; 066:009; 073:020; 076:008
We cannot just pretend that their beliefs are identical to ours.
185
The overwhelming majority of the world's Muslims are peace-loving people and a tiny fraction are waging violent jihad. Let's agree on a less xenophobic term than "Islamist" or "muslim terrorist." Those are slurs.
Ok, so there are 164 mentions of holy war in the Koran.
Have you ever read the books of Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, or Chronicles? These sections of the Bible routinely call for brutal slayings and in at least some cases all-out genocide.
Even if you're a Christian or Jew, you probably don't desire to act on the divine commands to "smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15, KJV) Well, neither do most Muslims put much stock in the sections of the Koran advocating the same kinds of behaviors.
Have you ever read the books of Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, or Chronicles? These sections of the Bible routinely call for brutal slayings and in at least some cases all-out genocide.
Even if you're a Christian or Jew, you probably don't desire to act on the divine commands to "smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword." (Deuteronomy 13:15, KJV) Well, neither do most Muslims put much stock in the sections of the Koran advocating the same kinds of behaviors.
5
Your pamphlet-style "understanding" is inadequate.
The proper dividing line is between FUNDAMENTALISTS of every faith who claim their apocalyptic visions justify the deaths of all others in the long run. Fundamentalism by its nature is "only one way", and a mind that justifies everything from hatred and killing to oppression of women. It is a perversion of religious values of tolerance and love. It has branches in all religions. The difference between religious haters there and the Christian pastor who would like to kill gay people is US Law. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
The proper dividing line is between FUNDAMENTALISTS of every faith who claim their apocalyptic visions justify the deaths of all others in the long run. Fundamentalism by its nature is "only one way", and a mind that justifies everything from hatred and killing to oppression of women. It is a perversion of religious values of tolerance and love. It has branches in all religions. The difference between religious haters there and the Christian pastor who would like to kill gay people is US Law. Let's keep our eye on the ball.
2
This world has become unstoppable in corruption, genocide, terrorism etc. America failed itself when it swept the Iran-Contra under the rug. That paved way for new criminals without conscious join in the game. Boka Haram is commiting genocide on every African tribe in Africa and no one cares about that, because all eyes are on Isis. If it is indeed Isis that are attacking and bombing. It is hard to say when espionage is the norm in todays world. Sick deranged entities like ISIS and Boka Harams will always be a norm because espionage, deceit, corruption is the norm. The UN is made up of no backbone and corrupted officials. Its like a parent chasing her child that has a book of matches, and everywhere the child stops, he sets something on fire. The paren continues to put the fire out, but never thinks about taken away the matches. So the child continues to set things on fire. This is no different. Lives mean nothing to these masterminds. Only power and greed. Africa and the Middle East holds the richest resources in the entire world. ISIS, Boka haram, Taliban all are pawns and they are too stupid and illiterate to realize it, because they are like drug addicts on a horrible binge. They are out of control robots, built by these masterminds. We only have a few honest leaders with backbone out of 100's of dishonest leaders who are part of a vicious circle.
9
Everyone who breathes air should read "The Battle For God - A History of Fundamentalism", by Karen Armstrong.
9
If this book tries to draw an equivalence between Christianity and Islam then no, I will not read it.
1
Don't forget to read V. S. Naipul, ancient, especially "Among the Believers" (1981). Karen Armstrong, BTW, is a former Catholic nun.
More events to promote contributions to fill the slushie funds to fight ISIS.
How charming.
Will someone on the inside of this scam on the American people speak up?
Were the 15 trillion paid for the 14 years wars in Iraq and Afghanistan not enough?
Were the tens of thousands of American soldiers and contractors, and the soldiers and contractors from other nations, who lost limbs and lost lives not enough.
Where does the violence and war fundraising end?
How charming.
Will someone on the inside of this scam on the American people speak up?
Were the 15 trillion paid for the 14 years wars in Iraq and Afghanistan not enough?
Were the tens of thousands of American soldiers and contractors, and the soldiers and contractors from other nations, who lost limbs and lost lives not enough.
Where does the violence and war fundraising end?
6
The world is wrapped in chaos, and we have a President that nobody listens to or respects. Tough times..
37
What is this garbage about not respecting the President? On Obama's watch, Osama bin Laden was taken out, not under Bush's. (George W. was not respected -- he was perceived as a buffoonish cowboy overseas.) U.S. policies have destabilized the Middle East for years. The President has been conducting drone strikes. And I have no doubt that possible attacks against the U.S. have been foiled, too, without our knowing: those on the Right have been insinuating that we haven't been doing 'anything' against terrorism, which is ludicrous. What would suggest (a ground war?), and what are you implying?
27
I and many others listen and respect him. It's tough that you generalize with no facts, just Republican lies.
2
If only George W. Bush were still in office! Now that was when we really knew how to make progress in the Middle East and pacify angry extremist Muslims worldwide!
(Just to be super clear: that was sarcasm.)
(Just to be super clear: that was sarcasm.)
3
Hmmm the terrorist justify their actions by citing the Quran and they release only their captives who can recite verses from the Quran. But - let's not dare call these terrorist "Islamic Terrorists."
321
If you are killing people in Terrorist attacks then you are not following the religion.
2
The terrorists may be Muslims, but they have perverted the religion in order to gain power, and their version of Islam has nothing to do with the religion practices by over a billion Muslims around the world.
2
I'm so glad the Neocons brought democracy to Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya. It seems to be spreading to the rest of the region.
50
Yes, it's always somehow Dick Cheney's fault. Never the fault of the barbarian perpetrators driven to do it by puppeteer neocons.
5
Let's see...
I never heard Nixon state that it was JFK's and Johnson's war...
I never heard Regan complain that he inherited the Cold War...
What I do hear is a complete and utter abdication of responsibility and accountability from Obama and his sycophants that all of his troubles were caused by someone else. Excuse me - but, your job is to manage the portfolio that you were given, try to improve the country's lot and quit polishing your own legacy.
I never heard Nixon state that it was JFK's and Johnson's war...
I never heard Regan complain that he inherited the Cold War...
What I do hear is a complete and utter abdication of responsibility and accountability from Obama and his sycophants that all of his troubles were caused by someone else. Excuse me - but, your job is to manage the portfolio that you were given, try to improve the country's lot and quit polishing your own legacy.
1
Tourists in dangerous places around the world should learn to assimilate the Muslim faith, simple rites and prayers, etc., so that they can, if need be, pass off as Muslims themselves.
4
Fakers, if caught, will be punished more severely. Sunnis do not allow Ahmadiya Muslims to call themselves Muslims. Ahmadiyas have been killed in Pakistan for simply saying the same prayers.
5
Didn't work. Some of the ISIS hostages tried that. They still got the chop.
7
James Foley, the journalist, converted to Islam, which wasn't enough to save his life. The slaughter has absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist's love of Islam. They're failures who are taking it out on the world. Failures to their mothers, fathers, siblings, wives, children, neighbors, society, religion...
1
Most people, on all parties, are talking of "revenge", "destroy them"...
Someone needs to figure out how to stop the vicious cycle of "an eye for an eye"!
The root cause of all this is the lopsided wealth distribution. You don't see many millionaires with nice family and health insurance risking their own lives killing innocent people?
Someone needs to figure out how to stop the vicious cycle of "an eye for an eye"!
The root cause of all this is the lopsided wealth distribution. You don't see many millionaires with nice family and health insurance risking their own lives killing innocent people?
4
This is demonstrably not true. Look at the "ringleader" of the recent Paris attacks, who grew up in a fairly secular and well-off family in Belgium, where presumably he had health insurance and many other opportunities open to him. I'm no defender of wealth inequality, but offering people decent jobs and material comforts will not be enough to stop this scourge.
10
Many Muslim terrorists come from wealthy families. Osama Bin Laden was not the only one.
Next excuse?
Next excuse?
3
Osama bin Laden?
2
Nothing to stop them from giving the passports from those killed to Syrian, Iraqi and other terrorists so they can enter the US as citizens from another nation.
20
You're assuming the dead are all carrying their passports today and you're also assuming that the U.S. State Department won't remove the names of the deceased from the rolls.
Too much paranoia this week.
Too much paranoia this week.
8
Actually, there is plenty to stop them, as you would know had you read the op-ed by the former head of Interpol in the Times yesterday.
1
I totally respect that we want to take the religion out of this. But the fact is that it keeps being the same 'Brand Name' coming up in connection with most of this stuff. We here in this little comment community can be a tolerant well meaning bunch - doing our darnedest to try and keep a shred of perspective.
But the world is not and does not really work like that as a rule. And it is increasingly a Muslim problem of global image and they really need to get busy doing some kind of hands on work to control this. Much the same way it can be said that the U.S. squandered its empathy capital in how it behaved after 9/11. Well the Muslim world is running out of excuses and explanations for its tribalism and divisiveness which these days seems to lead to only one type of headline. More bad news.
But the world is not and does not really work like that as a rule. And it is increasingly a Muslim problem of global image and they really need to get busy doing some kind of hands on work to control this. Much the same way it can be said that the U.S. squandered its empathy capital in how it behaved after 9/11. Well the Muslim world is running out of excuses and explanations for its tribalism and divisiveness which these days seems to lead to only one type of headline. More bad news.
184
Less than 1% of Muslims are ISIS yet, Muslims around the world are more responsible for ISIS, in many people's eyes, than Germans were for Hitler, and 36% of Germans actually voted for Hitler!
1
While your 1% figure may be true for those who actually actively participate in ISIS, clearly there are millions and millions more who "vote" for them by not "voting" against them with their voices and actions. If there were a worldwide, angry condemnation by imams and ordinary peace-loving Muslims, a universal ostracism of those who preach ISIS tenets and wield its weapons, maybe it would die at the hands of those it purports to represent.
1
Principia – –
There is a lot of "looking the other way" in the Muslim world.
Just recently a new, large poll sought to discern the views on Isis among Muslims in Muslim majority countries.
While outright "approval" never rose beyond two digits, and was typically one digit, the category "unsure how I feel" got a shocking number of votes.
Most strikingly, over 60% of those polled in Pakistan, a nuclear power, indicated that they are "unsure" how they feel about Isis.
There is a lot of "looking the other way" in the Muslim world.
Just recently a new, large poll sought to discern the views on Isis among Muslims in Muslim majority countries.
While outright "approval" never rose beyond two digits, and was typically one digit, the category "unsure how I feel" got a shocking number of votes.
Most strikingly, over 60% of those polled in Pakistan, a nuclear power, indicated that they are "unsure" how they feel about Isis.
1
The continual repetiton of modern hostage taking and the shootings of groups of people who greatly outnumber the attackers reveal an effective numbers based tactic for reducing the casualties and disarming the attackers: It will be difficult to teach, learn and implement and wil require that the victims overcome their fear and act contrary to their instincts -- the way our brave first responders did on 9/11. As soon as the attackers make themselves known to the crowd -- verbally or by shooting -- the crowd screams "ATTACK! ATTACK! in unison and immediately races en masse towards the attackers and overcomes, kills or captures them. Some innocents will be killed and injured and some may even be trampled but far fewer will be hurt than without this counterintuitive tactic. And if it becomes widely practiced, it will be the strongest posible deterrent for future attacks. The current frequency and deadliness of such shootings makes it more psychologically possible for a crowd of potential victims to implement the suggested tactic for overcoming the shooters. Training in this tactic should be made available to everyone.
16
Active shooter trainings are a good start. They teach you to understand immediately that you are in the fight of your life, the fight for your life, and that you will have to handle the gunmen. So you plot, and you strategize, ahead of time, what would I do in this situation. And then you resist with everything you have in you.
Otherwise, you are just only killed. And no one has the right to kill you.
Otherwise, you are just only killed. And no one has the right to kill you.
6
Are you planning to issue assault weapons, machine guns and suicide belts to everyone who checks into a hotel or goes to a concert? Absurd idea- sounds like something Trump would think of.
6
The word 'irony' doesn't begin to cover this post. The fact that it has appeared on this thread not once, but twice, is the mental equivalent of biting on tinfoil.
2
If the US had the same number of terrorist attacks as Israel (or for that matter, just about any other country on earth) no one would ever leave the house. It is disgusting how the Republican candidates, right wing radio commentators and Fox "analysts" fear monger with such bravado especially since none of them ever mustered up the courage to serve in the military. Live your life, continue to travel and don't give in to your worst instincts.
30
True, but you still can't compare Israeli-Palestinian strife to ISIS terrorism. Doesn't belong in the same metaphor. Israel chooses to illegally occupy Palestinian territory and deny them a nation that many successive U.S. presidents and even the Pope support. Israel creates their strife, and both sides are routinely accused of murder and terrorism, including the IDF.
3
Principia, please stop the historical revisionism and the spread of ignorance.
3
Principia – –
You indulge in a degree of oversimplification/obfuscation that borders on the outright lie.
You indulge in a degree of oversimplification/obfuscation that borders on the outright lie.
2
The faces behind these bands of men need to be exposed. Who is buying the weapons, funding them and supplying them with military gear?
The guys pulling the triggers may be 20somethings from all over the world but poverty does not buy this kind of operation. Who is funding this pie in the sky fake Caliphate dream that they sell as a suicide opportunity for Jim Jones type religious martyrdom for young people? Somehow, one suspects the twisted religion of old men.
The guys pulling the triggers may be 20somethings from all over the world but poverty does not buy this kind of operation. Who is funding this pie in the sky fake Caliphate dream that they sell as a suicide opportunity for Jim Jones type religious martyrdom for young people? Somehow, one suspects the twisted religion of old men.
54
Muslims migrants recently killed a mother and son in an Ikea store in Sweden with knives (not that the Times reported on it), so military funding is not required.
Same number of hostages but the headline is considerably smaller than the Paris one. Like size 20 vs size 72 font.
17
Well, there's only one thing to do.
Demonise Malian refugees.
Demonise Malian refugees.
32
@craig geary
Now is not the time to make sarcastic remarks about US politics; it is time to figure out how to shut down these murderers.
Now is not the time to make sarcastic remarks about US politics; it is time to figure out how to shut down these murderers.
14
One might begin, an honest journalist would be preferable, to follow the Saudi and American money and arms trade.
2
Unfortunately, the Muslim religion has been hijacked by extremists and terrorists and the "silent majority' of their religion is too silent.
Unfortunattely as Huntington said, this is turning out to be a clash of civilizatons. Judaism and Chritianity have reformd their political system, and accepted separation of church and state. Islam has not. Until that happens much innocent blood will be shed.
Unfortunattely as Huntington said, this is turning out to be a clash of civilizatons. Judaism and Chritianity have reformd their political system, and accepted separation of church and state. Islam has not. Until that happens much innocent blood will be shed.
46
If they don't want to separate religion and state, fine. That's their business. The problem is that they want to expand their territory and establish their bloodbath caliphates across the globe. (bloodbath for those that don't think the way they do.) Peaceful Muslims must organize and speak out forcefully to tear down the "brand" that Isis is selling so successfully.
5
It is not about Islam. The leaders of the terrorist organization are not ideological but are after power and greed. These cruel terrorist acts abroad reinforces their power at home. They use any tool necessary to recruit disaffected youth to do their acts. They do not have to be poor as recent attack Paris have shown. Islam is the most convenient too they have. In fact, any of the Christian-Judaic-Islam-Buddhist religion will do as we have seen young cruel extremists in all faiths when brainwashed by greedy power hungry leaders.
6
No, wrong. There are no Jewish or Catholic terrorist organizations. "Jihad" doesn't exist in either of those faiths. Almost all acts of terrorism are committed in the name of a perverted form of Islam. To try to divorce a radical, perverted form of Islam from the equation is intellectually dishonest.
58
"It is not about Islam."
I'm happy SOMEONE pointed that out. I'm tired of thr people, especially the politicians, who try to make this a conflict of Islam and Western or so-called "Judaeo-Christian values." (I'm looking at YOU, Governor Kasich. I thought you were supposed to be "the sane one.")
The extremists are quite as careless of the lives of fellow-Muslims as they are of those "infidels." Those with a good memory will recall that two Muslims were killed in the Charlie Hebdo -- one a staffer of the magazine and the other a cop. The Muslim cop died defending "western civilization," which (in my mind at least) kind od defeats the "clash of civilizations" theory. And almost certainly Muslims were present at the theatre in Paris either as concert-goers or as theatre staff. Ditto for the cafés, amd certainly for the Stade de France. There were certainly Muslims in that hotel in Mali.
(There is an "Islamic Center" (AKA a mosque) near where I live, in a suburb in Northern California. The people who attend the mosque go quietly about their business and don't bother anybody. But I don't doubt that those who live in the houses on each side maintain a degree of concern -- not about the Muslims who frequent the mosque but of crazies who in the name og patriotism, religion, or whatever, might try to vandalize it and in the act endanger the neighbors as well.)
I'm happy SOMEONE pointed that out. I'm tired of thr people, especially the politicians, who try to make this a conflict of Islam and Western or so-called "Judaeo-Christian values." (I'm looking at YOU, Governor Kasich. I thought you were supposed to be "the sane one.")
The extremists are quite as careless of the lives of fellow-Muslims as they are of those "infidels." Those with a good memory will recall that two Muslims were killed in the Charlie Hebdo -- one a staffer of the magazine and the other a cop. The Muslim cop died defending "western civilization," which (in my mind at least) kind od defeats the "clash of civilizations" theory. And almost certainly Muslims were present at the theatre in Paris either as concert-goers or as theatre staff. Ditto for the cafés, amd certainly for the Stade de France. There were certainly Muslims in that hotel in Mali.
(There is an "Islamic Center" (AKA a mosque) near where I live, in a suburb in Northern California. The people who attend the mosque go quietly about their business and don't bother anybody. But I don't doubt that those who live in the houses on each side maintain a degree of concern -- not about the Muslims who frequent the mosque but of crazies who in the name og patriotism, religion, or whatever, might try to vandalize it and in the act endanger the neighbors as well.)
103
But there are radical right wing jewish elements in Israel (look up who assassinated Yitzhak Rabin). And also crazy christian governments in Africa that are banning and executing gay people.
4
ISIS and al Qaeda appear to be in a competition over who can hit France and French interests the hardest.
4
This is a war we have not been taking seriously. This doesn't mean we jump in with ground forces, but we need to truly understand our enemy and stop underestimating our enemy. They have a short game and a long game. They are on the offensive and we the defensive. If we move to a stronger offensive position, we had better have a long game which is far better than our last one. We cannot eradicate them unless we plan to become an occupying force. The idea that we can have political partners in this region any time soon has proven highly destructive. Given much of what we are learning, wiping them out, as some are calling for, may not be a possible or a realistic outcome. The more power vacuums you create and the more martyrs you create, the enemy may grow stronger. This is a complex problem many of us have only begun to think about as a threat to our way of life.
138
'...wiping them out, as some are calling for, may not be a possible or a realistic outcome...'
But we surely do not have to take the chance on importing any more?
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but there will be a few amongst them, of that there is no doubt.
Why should any civilized country take the chance?
But we surely do not have to take the chance on importing any more?
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but there will be a few amongst them, of that there is no doubt.
Why should any civilized country take the chance?
1
The Germans 1941-1945 had a way of occupying foreign conquered countries that seemed to be largely effective.
Google 'blowback'. You can't arm and fund ISIS, then overthrow dozens of countries and murder millions of innocent people and not expect blowback. What goes around comes around. Our karma would be alien death rays from outer space incinerating Americans like ants. Now THAT would be The Enemy.
How many decades has law enforcement battled gang violence in the US? You can't shut down a gang that lives half a mile away, but you're going to stop one that lives half a world away?
20
@Keith
I don't remember gangs taking hundreds of hostages or committing acts like these.
I don't remember gangs taking hundreds of hostages or committing acts like these.
6
Its time all fair-minded people in this country start viewing the world as it exists in reality. Islamic terrorists and perpetuators of violence, aggression, and oppression are not contained. You may not want war but someone will always want war with you. Proponents of religion as a sole cause, must remember that secular powers have waged some of the most brutal violence and oppression in history. We must as a measure of first priority do something about the out of control spending a debt. Cry all you want about the military but our civil liabilities and entitlements are quickly taking over our cash flow - but that's another conversation. A strong military is the best way to deter a war, and America must always be safe. Warfare has transitioned from slice em up, to line up, to spread out, to infiltrate and destroy civilian targets. Our general border and visitor policy is beyond atrocious. The age of world conflict is not over, and in reality, history says it never will be.
13
A news commentator just said that it is unknown who has done this, as no one has claimed responsibility. Yeah, sure.
Let me guess: it was a roving band of those pesky fundamental Baptists, right?
Let me guess: it was a roving band of those pesky fundamental Baptists, right?
111
Responsible journalism requires confirmation before unqualified attribution. If that formula doesn't work for you, tune into FOXNews.
1
This is absolutely another Islamic terror act against France, consider to last years incidents.
World needs to deal with ISIS and acolites more acutely than it was thought.
It is always possible to go in non armed places and took hostages and massacre them. No need to repeat what is in their mind. Clearly they are targeting places with no resistance is possible.
It must be dealt accordingly, no way this is a war and going to be happened entire world. If ISIS would like to ignite fire all over the world , so be it.
World needs to deal with ISIS and acolites more acutely than it was thought.
It is always possible to go in non armed places and took hostages and massacre them. No need to repeat what is in their mind. Clearly they are targeting places with no resistance is possible.
It must be dealt accordingly, no way this is a war and going to be happened entire world. If ISIS would like to ignite fire all over the world , so be it.
6
Charles – –
Are you suggesting that Serbs are not Christians? Most Serbs are eastern orthodox Christians. Most Croatians are Catholics.
Are you suggesting that Serbs are not Christians? Most Serbs are eastern orthodox Christians. Most Croatians are Catholics.
How could this "peaceful religion" have so many unpeaceful adherents?
56
Do you recall what the Christians did to the Muslims in Bosnia?
2
This is always the excuse to avoid making Muslims confront the issues within their faith. We force Christians and Jews to do it. Why can we not call this violence Islamic extremism?
Saying that other faiths commit evil too is not a valid reason to not recognize the poison within Islam that gives terrorists the impetus to commit crimes against humanity.
Saying that other faiths commit evil too is not a valid reason to not recognize the poison within Islam that gives terrorists the impetus to commit crimes against humanity.
3
No, John, tell us.
Meantime, let's not confuse Serbs with "Christians." Those are the Croats, and have no genocides on their hands. A little history for you.
Meantime, let's not confuse Serbs with "Christians." Those are the Croats, and have no genocides on their hands. A little history for you.
2
This war, between secular and the religious is nothing new. Religion, as a system of government is incompatible with modern life. These terrorist attacks are the last thrashing gestures of a dying species that knows its fate but fights against it, possessed by the least religious of values: pride and humiliation.
24
It this turns out to be ISIS, that would put them in at least the Middle East, France and West Africa, somewhat redefining 'geographically contained'.
17
Judging from the comments so far, it's surprising how little recent history NYTimes readers understand. It's all been well covered in the Times.<br/><br/>Our destruction of Libya, which all the armchair liberals hailed in 2011, not only destroyed that country but led to the pilferage of Gaddafi's unguarded stores of weapons. Those same armchair liberals are now quite as mum about Libya, as are armchair 'conservatives' are about Iraq.<br/><br/>Those pilfered weapons, that didn't make it into ISIS hands, were used in part by Tuareg rebels in 2012, leading to the destruction in Mali of one of the few democratic (since 1991) governments in Africa. With the exception of Operation Serval by the French, it has been semi-chaos since.<br/><br/>First we destroyed Iraq, then Libya - leading to this, and now we're destroying Syria and Yemen. And we wonder how all this could be happening.<br/><br/>Stopping terrorism would be simple. We should just stop participating in it.<br/><br/>But that would make all of the war and surveillance corporations very sad.
312
Claude, It was not the "armchair liberals" who started this. It was George Bush who began by invading Iraq on false pretenses and enabled the formation of Al Qaida and ISIS.
8
Your view seems very simplistic. Judging by their actions, the Islamic terrorists want to destroy civilization as we know it. We can't just go home at this point, and hope they'll go away.
10
Stop feeling sorry. You need to read the history of Islam since its emergence in the 7th century Arabia. You'll develop a new, more educated and balanced perspective.
5
We keep hearing how Islam is a religion of peace & that it is only a few bad Apples that give it a bad name, yet that is not what we see in an increasingly large part of the world. Those same people also tell us we should take this or that military action & surrender more of our civil liberties to the for profit national security state.
That may be their talking points, but the facts are very different.
There are peaceful people who casually identify with Islam as many people are casual Christians or Jews who follow the traditions but do not believe the Orthodox interpretations of those faiths. Then there are the "faithful" who murder Doctors in Church Foyers, blow up abortion clinics, spit on children walking to school because they are not covered up, throw acid on women dressed for the beach, who practice genital mutilation, who crucify people guilty of expressing an opinion, and who take up arms and kill innocent people at theaters, diners & concert halls.
The problem is people following ancient faiths in 2015 and seeking to impose their views by terror. Regardless of their faith it is wrong & incompatible with life in a diverse, secular culture that respects the rights of all.
Islam is not the problem- it is part of a greater problem of religious intolerance in a world increasingly interconnected and seeing & facing more migration. As the world becomes smaller and more diverse, only tolerance will work. We cannot afford intolerant orthodox faiths anymore.
That may be their talking points, but the facts are very different.
There are peaceful people who casually identify with Islam as many people are casual Christians or Jews who follow the traditions but do not believe the Orthodox interpretations of those faiths. Then there are the "faithful" who murder Doctors in Church Foyers, blow up abortion clinics, spit on children walking to school because they are not covered up, throw acid on women dressed for the beach, who practice genital mutilation, who crucify people guilty of expressing an opinion, and who take up arms and kill innocent people at theaters, diners & concert halls.
The problem is people following ancient faiths in 2015 and seeking to impose their views by terror. Regardless of their faith it is wrong & incompatible with life in a diverse, secular culture that respects the rights of all.
Islam is not the problem- it is part of a greater problem of religious intolerance in a world increasingly interconnected and seeing & facing more migration. As the world becomes smaller and more diverse, only tolerance will work. We cannot afford intolerant orthodox faiths anymore.
247
@David Gregory
It is incorrect to equate these violent acts to other religions. There is clearly a problem with radical Islam, and that is why we are seeing these attacks.
It is incorrect to equate these violent acts to other religions. There is clearly a problem with radical Islam, and that is why we are seeing these attacks.
2
Yes....tell that to Saudi Arabia...and friends
4
@David Gregory - he's saying the problem is all radical religions are problematic. You can't think that a bombing a cafe in paris is that much different than bombing a woman's clinic here? Or is it because it's your religion it's ok?
2
And what role did Mali play in the war against Saddam Hussein, in attacking Syria, or in supporting Israel?
21
Are you justifying aiming for women and children in a hotel as retaliation? Is that your own moral compass or is it a group mentality we should hunt for?
9
When a theatre is shot up in the U.S. all hell is raised, and the calls for gun control and immigration "reform" crescendo. Aren't these people too? Don't they bleed?. Let's start gun control by stopping the U.S. from flooding Africa and the MidEast with AK 47's (and every other kind of munition we can manufacture).
27
AK47s are designed and made in Russia.
6
The U.S. doesn't manufacture AK-47s
4
AK 47 is a Russian weapon. We have other toys.
2
Philosophically, what, I wonder, is at the core of this massive spreading world pathology? Mother Earth and the inventive human brain provides us with all we need to feed, cloth, and shelter everyone; every single earthling. Why do we keep messing up? Bottom line, is it the "people-making factories" world wide that are unaware of the requirements necessary to build healthy peace-loving productive products but instead, due to lack of awareness, produce dysfunctional destructive ones that follow the dark side and mess things up for the rest of us; for our planet itself. Albert Einstein once said that a problem can't be solved using the thinking that created it. Thus, somehow, someway, we, as a species, must go deeper; we must get to the roots of the heart-breaking divisiveness and despair that's infecting us all at the same time we go about addressing/attacking the destructive consequences of those roots.
"Our planet is a lonely speck in the great cosmic dark. In all the vastness, there's no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."--Carl Sagan
"Our planet is a lonely speck in the great cosmic dark. In all the vastness, there's no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves."--Carl Sagan
22
You might enjoy a book called "The Spirit In The Gene", by Reg Morrison. Among other things, he makes an interesting point: Aside from appearance, the one characteristic which differentiates us from our nearest genetic relative is our language. That language has enabled us to spread ideas, and many of those ideas have not been good ones. Pair this with our unique defect - our susceptibility to religion - and the roots of our problems are pretty obvious.
4
Philosophically, what, I wonder, is at the core of this massive spreading world pathology
hatred, ignorance and fear
aka, religion
hatred, ignorance and fear
aka, religion
10
Dear thx1138, I doubt that people are born to hate--or ascribing to any particular religious belief system. I doubt that anyone could look at a newborn and see hate. Hate is learned. Religious beliefs are learned. Acting-out based on hate or religions is learned too. Thus, hate/religious beliefs is a consequence; a learned result, not a core/root issue. And it's through discovering and correcting the core issues; the factors that lead to hate and other destructive behaviors based on religious ideology or otherwise, in the first place, that must be discovered and addressed and changed as much as possible, if even possible.
46
I'm still mulling over the fact that the Paris attacks warranted a full-width banner headline in the NYT, and this story gets a one-column treatment. I guess I sort of understand it, but I'm not sure that I like the implications. More people in the US have been to Paris than have been to Bamako. But if it happens in Africa, is it less important?
64
I noticed the same thing. I think people WOULD care more if the media made a bigger deal out of it. Hard to notice/care when the media relegates it to a tiny column.
4
I believe the initial stories from Paris were in a single-column, exactly like the handling of this story. Yes, many hours later, and over the next day, when it became apparent that more than 100 people had died, the headline was full-width. As the tag line indicates, this is a "developing" story and you are seeing only the very earliest of reports now.
11
I guess if the Islamic militants took over Paris, then hostage takings and mass murders would stop getting banner headlines. But that could never happen...
Did you notice one element common across all terrorist incidents? They are cowards. They hide their faces completely, and attack women, children - in fact all non-combatants. They do not have the courage to fight real soldiers. Bravery is glaringly missing among these Islamist terrorists. I dare you guys (Islamist terrorists) to fight with your faces uncovered and fight only combatants. Bet your tails will be between your legs as you run away.
19
In the U.S. Civil War, the soldiers would sometimes have truces during which they would trade stories and tobacco. But that was a war. It had a foreseeable end. It was "civil" in a way that terrorism will never be. Your dare will be laughed at.
1
This very tactic was and continues to be excused, rationalized and justified by most of the West when it is Palestinians attacking Israeli civilians (whether with rockets, guns, knives or cars). It's a bit late in the day (but not too late) to now draw the line and say that this cowardly criminal behavior is unacceptable under all circumstances. There must be an united front against terror in all its malignant manifestations and no exceptions where the victims are Jews. History has shown that when you start by sacrificing the Jews to your enemy, that enemy will only be emboldened by your spineless ness and soon enough attack you. And that is precisely what we see today.
2
We are told that these terrorists are just misguided and that if we just let enough of them into the country they will like us.
These guys know exactly what they are doing. And our leaders are fools.
These guys know exactly what they are doing. And our leaders are fools.
92
de Blasio, Obama, Clinton, all supposed to be so smart. Sure guys/gal let more of them in no questions asked. This is a good idea why? Three career politicians playing PC Police and failing miserably. Wake up.
3
Would you care to point out one instance in which the 'leaders' have suggested less than the maximum detailed screening of refugees? Perhaps you can tell us exactly how they expressed sympathy for these madmen.
I didn't think so.
This post has nothing to do with the matter at hand. I just love it when some ideologue uses current events as a platform to recite the same old FoxNews/Drudge Report line.
I didn't think so.
This post has nothing to do with the matter at hand. I just love it when some ideologue uses current events as a platform to recite the same old FoxNews/Drudge Report line.
4
That's news to me......I haven't heard anyone say terrorosts are misguided and can somehow be reformed.
5
I wonder if this is another example of Islamic terrorism? Maybe the House bill passed yesterday isn't so crazy.....
41
@Bill - We are Americans, we figure things out and get things done. We don't look at a sea of drowning people watch them die for fear that one of them may be a hiding terrorist. We figure it out. We recognize the self benefiting right wing rhetoric screaming for a headline and we tell them to shut up and work together to get things done. We are all immigrants here. Personally, I fear the lonely American teenager wth access to just about any weapon and free flowing Internet - long before I fear half clothed men, women, and children who have been traveling for months trying to save themselves and their families. This week the GOP candidates have proven that there is not one real leader amongst them - Jeb wants a religious war, Christie fears 5 year olds, Donald and the rest will take the easy headline grabbing route of NIMBY. Not one leader. A leader would say, "people are dying let's figure this out and get things done." We are Americans, we figure it out and we get it done. We don't back down - especially when innocent lives are at stake.
6
Yes it is. You have to read further into the article before that is made clear though.
3
No, I would not say "crazy."
I would say that bill and your sentiments is a big part of what being human is about. The part that on our better days, we know to be deeply embarrassed of and vows to be more empathetic and understanding of others' failings.
For some people, the "better days" happen far more often than others. May these days happen more often to all of us.
I would say that bill and your sentiments is a big part of what being human is about. The part that on our better days, we know to be deeply embarrassed of and vows to be more empathetic and understanding of others' failings.
For some people, the "better days" happen far more often than others. May these days happen more often to all of us.
Republicans must first learn their focus is too narrow, their logic fails and their pronouncement of fears actually support the status quo. America and the world must learn stateless terror is a by-product of global wealth that left behind the common citizen and the public good and gave petty criminals and the disillusioned new cause: wealth added to the twisted logic of evil supported by 9 million Kalashnikovs (AK 47 rifles), long fleets of Toyota pickups, millions in oil receipts, and approved credit cards used for rental cars to drive in comfort and convenience to the next slaughter. Not religion, but money magnifies and glorifies the carnage and been its enabler.
Evil fantasies have real consequences when cash is put behind them. ISIL provides the perfect opportunity to stop wealth from enabling conflict at even greater expense. How did ISIL go from the bottom heap of terrorists trying to rocket to the top of the pack? Money! Not their fervor or faith, not their skills at arms or their ruthlessness; what has made ISIL a destination and example of the globe’s dispossessed children is money, cloaked by the false nexus of fighting for faith against modernity.
Money put terrorists on the world stage. Dry up the money! Watch what happens when the bullets run out: terrorists will join the beggars looking for sponsors, whining about what used to be. False faith may direct the process, but the carnage is the product of an invisible revenue stream.
Evil fantasies have real consequences when cash is put behind them. ISIL provides the perfect opportunity to stop wealth from enabling conflict at even greater expense. How did ISIL go from the bottom heap of terrorists trying to rocket to the top of the pack? Money! Not their fervor or faith, not their skills at arms or their ruthlessness; what has made ISIL a destination and example of the globe’s dispossessed children is money, cloaked by the false nexus of fighting for faith against modernity.
Money put terrorists on the world stage. Dry up the money! Watch what happens when the bullets run out: terrorists will join the beggars looking for sponsors, whining about what used to be. False faith may direct the process, but the carnage is the product of an invisible revenue stream.
126
Democrats must learn not to take Walter too seriously. No offense, just a gratuitous opening line, a Walter Tactic. When ISIS takes a territory and loots it of Money, Guns (there is a war going on), oil, trucks so on. There is no money to follow. There is only one way to interdict looters, boots on the ground. The Credit cards use to rent the car did not come from some central office. It was the personal card of a Belgian citizen. The Paris attacks required a remarkably small amount of money, easily raised amongst a small group locally. hint, suicide don't need to worry about saving for the future.
2
EXACTLY! Our "intelligence agencies" can identify any and all money going to drug cartels, and opposing groups, but SOMEHOW cannot locate the whereabouts of the huge transactions that are allowing ISIS to obtain millions through oil sales and large contributions. HOW, exactly is that???
2
If this is true, then why do the fabulously wealthy Saudi sheiks give support to these terrorists? Sorry but your very wrong. If your logic was correct then there would be violent terrorists in India to parallel ISIS.
1
Take a brief trip through Time Machine as randomly offered by the New York Times today to 1975, and you will read that 40 years ago the QE2 was being searched for plastic explosives, and enough smuggled bomb making material was found that day in London for 80 powerful bombs. The Soviet led war in Angola was being fed a supply of Cuban soldiers. A vote against Turkish occupation in Cyprus showed looming conflict there despite UN actions. The Argentinian right wing military continued to war against unionists who it naturally identified as 'Communist Guerrillas'. The CIA chief Colby expressed security leak concerns as the Senate was about to report that high ranking officers there were involved in all sorts of outlandish plots to kill foreign leaders. The Arabs were threatening a general world boycott against Jews in all international business dealings. So calm down everybody the world is always coming to an end. Oh, and Franco died - at 82, after several years, seemingly of being reported in a semi-comatose state while leading Spain, a feature weekly incorporated into SNL's Chevy Chase wrap up.
48
Thank you for putting this into perspective.
I feel safe here in the USA.
There are worse events - NBC attacks, or wars with China or Russia.
I feel safe here in the USA.
There are worse events - NBC attacks, or wars with China or Russia.
3
I guess then it is quite alright for the United States to keep air-dropping tons of weaponry for terrorists groups in Syria, destabilizing entire regions and securing only oil fields, which they control, and telling Russia they should "bomb less" when attacking the same terrorists assassinating people around the world.
Business as usual, you're correct.
Business as usual, you're correct.
7
Have you forgotten the Madrid bombings 11 years ago? What about the fact that Spain is a primary target for Daesh? What is Spain doing to shed light on these actions you deem inappropriate, anything? How is Spain responding to Syria?
1
Very sad. Muslims are responsible for the present worst scenario in the world. It's rather unfortunate that religion comes first for them wherever they live except Islamic part of the world and as such everything comes last. That's where all the problems lie.
Any temporary war can be won but Muslims must introspect and find the solution for their own good and for the world peace. Unless and until it's done the worst scenario will continue and no area in the world will be practically safe. We will have no choice but to live with it since no amount of security, infrastructure, money, power and technology can take care of us.
Any temporary war can be won but Muslims must introspect and find the solution for their own good and for the world peace. Unless and until it's done the worst scenario will continue and no area in the world will be practically safe. We will have no choice but to live with it since no amount of security, infrastructure, money, power and technology can take care of us.
211
This terror has nothing to do with Islam. Muslims are not responsible for this terror, a bunch of murderous thugs spouting a perversion of the Koran are responsible. Your statement feeds into the growing xenophobia that is part of the problem. To blame "Muslims" alienates a whole group of people and encourages them to agree that there is a war on Islam and they have to take a side. Islam is not the enemy, international criminals are the enemy.
12
Like ISIS, Al Qaeda, and Boko Haram, these aren't so much religious terrorists as they are collections of barbarians, psychopaths, bullies, outcasts, losers, and underdogs who resent their marginal place in the world.
3
To Peter. It IS Muslim terror. This is how the terrorists identify themselves. Do you claim to know more as to why people act that the people themselves? Nor is it a "perversion" of the Quran since like any ancient and difficult text it can be interpreted in a number of ways and there is no one authoritative meaning. Da'esh has its own Quran, the Sufis had theirs. And yes, all Muslims in the failed states who support the ideology of Daesh - a majority in some places, a sizable minority in others - are responsible. Check out the latest Pew poll on the Muslim attitudes to rights of women, democracy, freedom of speech and other unimportant toys of the "decadent" Western civilization.
6
We need to look past the religious overtones of these attacks, and address the underlying attraction these groups have toward the poor and disaffected youth who find these homicidal groups so irresistible. The message of violence toward Westerners is easy to understand when you're looking at people whose culture is defined by the kind of wealth you'll never achieve.<br /><br />The fabric of these groups is poverty and hopelessness; Islam is the barest thread that holds them together.
502
I disagree. What about the Chinese and Indian people? Millions are impoverished.
92
Nonsense. The idea that it is only poverty and "marginalization" that causes people to choose to become terrorists is a fantasy of the left, and a pernicious and repugnant form of blaming the victims of terror for terrorism. There are billions of people in dire poverty throughout the world but only a few of them become terrorists. If you can't see that religion, in this case Islam, is the unifying force for these terrorists, then you are willfully blind.
174
A lot of these terrorists are not poor. Stop excusing the inexcusable.
There is no justification for this kind of violence. None.
There terrorists are following a facet of their religion, culture and society. They are killing because their interpretation of their religion calls for killing.
Will you ever hold them accountable for their own actions? Or is everything the fault of 'the West'? How paternalistic of you.
There is no justification for this kind of violence. None.
There terrorists are following a facet of their religion, culture and society. They are killing because their interpretation of their religion calls for killing.
Will you ever hold them accountable for their own actions? Or is everything the fault of 'the West'? How paternalistic of you.
425
Another terrorist attack. Sometimes I wonder if all of the terrorist groups coordinate these events. Many of the terrorists come from countries which have no future; no running water; poor food distributions systems. No wonder many of the terrorist are young people. They have nothing to live for.
257
And many are well educated and middle-class.
They do have something to live for: killing non-Sunnis.
You provide them cover by selling their sob story. Stop justifying their murder.
They do have something to live for: killing non-Sunnis.
You provide them cover by selling their sob story. Stop justifying their murder.
41
A lot of people with [seemingly] no future, no running water, and little food still make the effort to pull themselves out of it. Not all succeed but many try. Those folks and the countries that try to fix their problems are the ones that deserve a helping hand. The ones who look at the same problems, then blame others (i.e. "cruel world") for them and turn to violence deserve only a very hard slap in the face.
5
Really? The Boston bombers had nothing?
Even with money/education, it's about extremism/religious belief.
Even with money/education, it's about extremism/religious belief.
14
When the targets were Israelis or Jews in Europe, there was a collective yawn and a rush to justify the terrorist attacks. Then came attacks in, among others, the U.S., UK, Spain, India and France earlier this year with the murders at Charlie Hebdo and (rarely mentioned these days) more Jews at a kosher deli. Excuses - or as Secretary Kerry put it so foolishly a "rationale" - were still being trotted out. With the recent tragic attacks it is beginning to dawn on the West that these terror groups, from Hamas to ISIS, have nothing to discuss and are not interested in compromise. They want to defeat the infidel West, murder as many as they can and impose Islam.
The uncomfortable fact for a post-religious a West should now be evident: this is all about a particular strain of Islam, seemingly born of its Wahhabi variant. Military force will have limited effect. The West must also stop making excuses for all terrorist attacks. There is no justification for attacking civilians, ever, no matter the grievance (whether real or imagined), no matter the imbalance in power and all the rest.
Ultimately, this is a problem internal to Islam and the terror philosophy can only be countered by theological arguments from respected Islamic theologians. That after all these years of finding religious justification in Islamic texts for attacks on Jews, the task will be monumental and perhaps impossible. That they don't seem to have any stomach to try is deeply troubling.
The uncomfortable fact for a post-religious a West should now be evident: this is all about a particular strain of Islam, seemingly born of its Wahhabi variant. Military force will have limited effect. The West must also stop making excuses for all terrorist attacks. There is no justification for attacking civilians, ever, no matter the grievance (whether real or imagined), no matter the imbalance in power and all the rest.
Ultimately, this is a problem internal to Islam and the terror philosophy can only be countered by theological arguments from respected Islamic theologians. That after all these years of finding religious justification in Islamic texts for attacks on Jews, the task will be monumental and perhaps impossible. That they don't seem to have any stomach to try is deeply troubling.
331
If you call removing Saddam Hussein, allowing or encouraging a new military regime in Egypt to suppress Islam, giving billions to Israel in subsidies, refusing to impose any sanctions when that nation shells Palestinian civilians, a "collective yawn," well then, the West is yawning at the plight of poor, ever expanding Israel.
I could go on and on, of course. The list is long indeed.
I could go on and on, of course. The list is long indeed.
4
Charlie Hebdo was an anti-immigrant hate screed until the killings transferred it into a holy free speech zone.
2
Exactly this has dawned on me also. What Israel has been saying for 75 years? They have no partners in peace. And now it should be evident to even the most ardent terrorist apologist.
4
Curious how the Democrat Government in the US demands enhanced screening to speed refugees coming into the USA but don't care about these murders or the kidnapping of 200 young girls in Nigeria. Yes the leftists are an odd lot.
24
How is one related to the other? Are we to expend our military again? Are you willing to go into Nigeria? Our involvement in the Syrian refugee problem can be determined on our shores.
10
Americans care about the 200 young girls in Nigeria. But Americans care more about our own country. Let the Nigerians take care of the 200 girls. Of course you are free to head over to Nigeria and lend a hand.
28
What? For those who lack a functioning short term memory, be thankful for google. The U.S. played a very active role in stepping up to help these girls. For goodness sake, speaking of "odd lots"..........
1
"A French-led offensive ousted them in 2013..."
Sure they did...and with rosy platitudes the politicians said so too.
I say, in forming the strategies to address the Islamic militants, when did reading Sun Tzu go out of favor? The militants seem versed in his lessons.
Sure they did...and with rosy platitudes the politicians said so too.
I say, in forming the strategies to address the Islamic militants, when did reading Sun Tzu go out of favor? The militants seem versed in his lessons.
4
This is part of the blowback from the illegal and unConstitutional War launched by Obama in collusion with NATO allies like France and the UK against Libya in 2011. The real scandal of Libya is not the Benghazi attacks but the arming of Islamic militants like these to overthrow Ghaddafy and providing them with over 20,000 rocket launchers. Libya which once enjoyed the best quality of life in Northern Africa off their oil money with widespread education, literacy, medical care, a low infant mortality rate is now a basket case. After overthrowing Ghaddafy in a gruesome massacre, some militants went with their US/NATO supplied weapons to Mali where they started a civil war there. Others took their weapons to join ISIS.
When will we stop the endless Wars and funding terrorists for short term power politics and worst of all giving Saudi Arabia $60 billion to bomb Yemen and arm groups like ISIS?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/the-us-nato-alliance-destroyed-li...
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4023726/dennis-kucinich-benghazi-attack
When will we stop the endless Wars and funding terrorists for short term power politics and worst of all giving Saudi Arabia $60 billion to bomb Yemen and arm groups like ISIS?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/the-us-nato-alliance-destroyed-li...
http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4023726/dennis-kucinich-benghazi-attack
20
The House of Saud cuts our throat with a piece of cotton. We pick the worst 'friends'.
4
Here we go again.
18
I wish I understood what it is that the attackers hope to gain. It hasn't altered my way of life at all; it just makes me sad.
10
Au contraire, terrorism has altered your life: When you go to the airport, you have to stand in longer lines, you have to take off your shoes and belt and hat and coat. You have to turn on your laptop. You have to throw out that homemade strawberry jam your grandmother snuck into your carry on bag on your way to the airport. You think twice before you go out to crowded places or take public transportation, especially if you live in a big city. You are more suspicious of your neighbors that look or dress a little differently, even when you don't like being more suspicious of them. You pay more in taxes to finance the military actions in faraway lands like Libya and Syria - and now perhaps Mali - that most Americans, perhaps you included, could not find on a map. You spend more in taxes to support American warriors when they return physically and mentally scarred from war. And so on.
And it has certainly altered or ended the lives of the people who have been randomly selected and wounded or killed by the terrorists, and their loved ones. That you can make many of the same statements about gun violence or other crimes doesn't alter the fact that terrorists have indeed changed all of our lives, in ways small and large.
That's what the terrorists hoped to gain. And for that, they must be made to pay the price. Even if that means others with the same sick ideology will replace them. Civilization and protecting what is left of our way of life demands no less.
And it has certainly altered or ended the lives of the people who have been randomly selected and wounded or killed by the terrorists, and their loved ones. That you can make many of the same statements about gun violence or other crimes doesn't alter the fact that terrorists have indeed changed all of our lives, in ways small and large.
That's what the terrorists hoped to gain. And for that, they must be made to pay the price. Even if that means others with the same sick ideology will replace them. Civilization and protecting what is left of our way of life demands no less.
6
Attention. If there is nothing to live for, die in a blaze of glory. It is a typical teenage fantasy - they will miss me when I'm gone.
2
Should make you angry and protective
I wonder how this religious test will make the American politicians calling for a religious test feel. The long arc of human progress is feeling a gravitational pull in the wrong direction.
61
You look at the crimes committed by Islamic radicals. Then use them to condemn "religion" and once you have condemned religion, it becomes easy to condemn Republicans who are not Muslim but Christian.
There is no logic here. Just the usual Republican bashing. And oh, even Kim Davis, who was a Democrat and killed NO gays, is put in the same boat as the people who committed the massacre in Paris. She did not want her name on marriage certificates. "Why, that is worse than a massacre!!"
I find liberal logic just as strange as Republican logic.
There is no logic here. Just the usual Republican bashing. And oh, even Kim Davis, who was a Democrat and killed NO gays, is put in the same boat as the people who committed the massacre in Paris. She did not want her name on marriage certificates. "Why, that is worse than a massacre!!"
I find liberal logic just as strange as Republican logic.
3
Time for the world leaders to wake up. We are at war whether you want to admit it or not. It's not your choice. Extremists have chosen for you. Respond accordingly or continue to watch your people get mowed down like sheep.
166
They do not care about people
Overpopulation solved
Overpopulation solved
4
Or see the populations of the West turn to politicians who will stop this and you may not like what you get.
1
Impotence. Pinning my hopes on Putin.
The Islamic jihadists have declared war and terror on every non-jihadist. They shouldn't have the upper hand. Every nation that rejects jihadism should seek the perpetrators of it out and stamp it out. The nations that are not willing should be ostracized by the international community.
Hopes and prayers, though distinctly with the innocent hostages, are not enough.
Hopes and prayers, though distinctly with the innocent hostages, are not enough.
39
liberals on both sides of atlantic thought appeasment will work
5
Francis: please own the fact of who first armed the jihadists: Ronald Reagan. Read your history book.
16
I wish for the best possible outcome for those still involved in this tragedy. They are all in my prayers.
For the radical Muslims out there, I don't know how you justify yourselves these days. Really, I have tried to be sympathetic and understanding, putting myself in your shoes and see the lines drawn to your current conclusions. But my tolerance has limits. If this kind of terrorism is in line with your religious beliefs, then I do feel bad for you, as you will be my enemy.
For the radical Muslims out there, I don't know how you justify yourselves these days. Really, I have tried to be sympathetic and understanding, putting myself in your shoes and see the lines drawn to your current conclusions. But my tolerance has limits. If this kind of terrorism is in line with your religious beliefs, then I do feel bad for you, as you will be my enemy.
25
You have tried to be sympathetic to murderous jihadists?
27
Sad times in the world these days.
10
These days? Compared to most of the rest of the human history things are certainly more peaceful now. The main difference is the 24 hour news cycle and worldwide coverage. If anything, we should be grateful that happenings like this are in fact newsworthy instead of just the way things are day in and day out. I know that sounds uncaring, but that is not my intent. This is indeed a very sad occurrence. Our access to information today is just unparalleled.
8
we lack strong leaders
Is this the work of the "contained" guys from the "JV team again?" Looks that way. Don't worry though. According to Obama, Sanders and Hillary, global warming is the real threat along with white male college students playing Frisbee. Now Hillary, who voted for the Iraq war, and took out Khadafi with no after-plan, is calling for even more bombs.
Are you Democrats starting to see how dangerous your great leader is yet or are you still delusional?
Are you Democrats starting to see how dangerous your great leader is yet or are you still delusional?
36
By all means....blame Hillary for the MESS that George Bush and his minions created. Do you conservatives have the capacity to lay the well deserved blame on anyone in your party???????
531
@ Susan
You are assuming that there are any conservatives that know now to think. Proof of this are the comments (all over the place) of Trump and the absolute ignorance of the facts and/or procedures in foreign policy and/or military strategy ozzing from Carson. have you read his op-ed piece in yesterdays (Thursday Nov 19) NYTIMEs which explains his understanding of "anything". These two jokers scare me more than do the extremist Jihadis.
You are assuming that there are any conservatives that know now to think. Proof of this are the comments (all over the place) of Trump and the absolute ignorance of the facts and/or procedures in foreign policy and/or military strategy ozzing from Carson. have you read his op-ed piece in yesterdays (Thursday Nov 19) NYTIMEs which explains his understanding of "anything". These two jokers scare me more than do the extremist Jihadis.
53
Nice try Jerry. But compared to the buffoon Republican party and the let's get er' done war 'heroes' George W. Bush, Cheney, et al, the Democrats are at worst impotent.
48
I assume that sometime today Cruz, Trump and the rest of the pack will call for a moratorium on Malians coming to this country.
17
Probably not even on their radar. Did they even MENTION Lebanon after the last attacks?
6
Mali is a fine nation, worthy of the world's support. If the West is too scared of seeing blood and losing lives to eradicate the evil of religious-fundamentalist terror wherever it arises, we would do well to just surrender now. This is a critical time, in the evolution of civilization, when fundamentalism must be encouraged to fade away, and when it turns to evil to spread itself, opposed in full force.
6
Hard to take an attack on Lebanon as an attack in a surprising place, given that Hezbollah (responsible for terror worldwide, including in Paris in the 1980s) is known to operate there without constraint. The ISIS attacks on Shiites in Saudi Arabia were more newsworthy and surprising, yet got very little coverage when they've occurred (October 2015, Spring and Summer 2015.) Why? It's part of a different narrative: Sunni versus Shiite, not ISIS versus the west.
2
What American in his right mind is in Mali right now? CIA? NGOs? Getr our people out of there NOW.
17
And what is the death rate from gun violence in our country again? How about adding in all the shootings and not just the deaths for that matter.
2
More tragedy, with religion as the ostensible rationale.
Could I ask a small, simple favor? Why do the media always use phrases like ISIS "claimed responsibility"? I understand that this is how THEY might describe it. However, why would we buy into their deranged view of their deranged actions? Why don't the media routinely say, "ISIS has admitted guilt" or "without apology or remorse, confessed its culpability"? As the sane ones, we can use words that accurately reflect reality. We should do so.
Could I ask a small, simple favor? Why do the media always use phrases like ISIS "claimed responsibility"? I understand that this is how THEY might describe it. However, why would we buy into their deranged view of their deranged actions? Why don't the media routinely say, "ISIS has admitted guilt" or "without apology or remorse, confessed its culpability"? As the sane ones, we can use words that accurately reflect reality. We should do so.
45
There are groups who will 'claim responsibility' even if they have nothing to do with the particular act they're claiming. That is why the news writes it like that. To say that a group confessed to something gives them undue credit sometimes, believe it or not. Get used to the news conventions, and you understand the news better.
3
The "Claimed Responsibility" phrase is what the media uses now in place of what they USED to use which was "Claimed Credit".
There are still some media organizations who continue to use 'claimed credit' in their copy and TV presentations and it drives me wild.
There are still some media organizations who continue to use 'claimed credit' in their copy and TV presentations and it drives me wild.
1
["...the security forces arrived,” he hostage added."] Whoops. The hostage perhaps? Small error for such quick coverage. Prayers with the victims.
I realize all Muslims are not terrorists, but why does it appear all terrorists are Muslims? No Christians, Hindus, Buddhists or Jews - just Muslims.
Peace loving civilized Muslim friends - you have a real problem among your fellow worshippers.
Peace loving civilized Muslim friends - you have a real problem among your fellow worshippers.
859
Terrorism may be overwhelmingly dominated by self proclaimed muslims at the present time but this hasn't and won't always be the case. I would for instance call all of the school shootings in the United states over the past few years acts of terrorism. Yet to my knowledge none of them were religiously motivated. There have also been several incredibly sadistic american serial killers whose actions i would also call terrorism. The Oklahoma city bomber was not a Muslim. Nor was the man who shot the congresswoman in arizona a few years ago.
11
I think that the convergence of corruption, sectarianism which acts like an isolating force the way nationalism does, extreme poverty, and the unequal ownership and division of vast wealth from natural resources, coupled with the flow of ideas through the connection of religion helps foster the violence. Terrorism is a relatively cheap way to wage war.
The swath of violence sweeping through Muslim communities reminds mostly of the violence associated with leftist and rightist forces all through South and Central America during most of the decades of my youth. We didn't ask how it was that these people could ver know peace: we understood that poverty and crime, and political corruption were driving forces.
And as for the lack of violence in other religions - it depends on where you are looking. The Muslim Rohingya are being wiped out in Myanmar by *Buddhists.*
The swath of violence sweeping through Muslim communities reminds mostly of the violence associated with leftist and rightist forces all through South and Central America during most of the decades of my youth. We didn't ask how it was that these people could ver know peace: we understood that poverty and crime, and political corruption were driving forces.
And as for the lack of violence in other religions - it depends on where you are looking. The Muslim Rohingya are being wiped out in Myanmar by *Buddhists.*
10
Sadly, this is untrue. In the US, we routinely have white, Christian men walking into movie theaters, colleges, churches, first grade classrooms...and shooting down everyone in their paths. Or how about the attack on the Sikh temple in Wisconsin? But when they are white Americans with a Christian background they are considered 'loners', not terrorists. So, no, "all terrorists" are NOT Muslims.
In fact, more acts of terrorism on American soil have been committed by white Christians than Muslims.
In fact, more acts of terrorism on American soil have been committed by white Christians than Muslims.
30
Try to sneak in some armed cops or military dressed as hostages to kill the hostage takers.
1
Now that ISIS has made mortal enemies of the United States, France, Russia, China, and Britain, might I make a suggestion? Please feel free to enrage the Sicilian mafia and maybe a few Mexican drug cartels. If you're going to be suicidal, why not seal your doom even more thoroughly?
32
Along the lines of your comment, why not engage the Sicilian mafia and the Mexican drug cartels to join us and help us fight against ISIS?
2
Ok -- who did we manage to offend this time???
102
Funny. Best post of the day.
2
According to the media - in fact, pretty much what I read here everyday - the U.S. offends everyone. Look at our college campuses. Everyone is offended. One can no longer express his or her opinions right here at home without offending some group and being assessed some evil label. Welcome to 1984.
9
In this case, as the article details, there's been an ongoing civil war in Mali for the last 3 years, which started when the Mali military overthrew the elected government. This is probably related - these guys have more in common with the KKK than with Daesh.
1
We may be reaching the unfortunate point where the radical Muslim movement must be eradicated. Innocent people may be killed in the process but more will be saved.
260
I read that in Syria, U.S. planes had been instructed NOT to take out oil tanker trucks transporting oil from ISIS controlled refineries because drivers might be innocent civilians just doing their job. Just hearsay, but I know the Rules of Engagement seem to favor missing an important ISIS target is any civilians might get killed. If there are accidental civilian causalities in any operation, the Media always lets everyone know how we screwed up, and how evil we are...we really are fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.
10
War is war. If we engage, then civilian casualties and collateral damage will no doubt result. It's the way it is. If we cannot handle it, as a nation, then we must stay out.
Reading "Lone Survivor" clearly demonstrates that when the rules of engagement are watered down over fears of what the liberal media may say, the results are death and failure. We are either in or out, but cannot straddle the fence to please everyone. The Greatest Generation understood.
The loss of innocent life is a by product of war. Which is why, among many reasons, "War is Hell."
Reading "Lone Survivor" clearly demonstrates that when the rules of engagement are watered down over fears of what the liberal media may say, the results are death and failure. We are either in or out, but cannot straddle the fence to please everyone. The Greatest Generation understood.
The loss of innocent life is a by product of war. Which is why, among many reasons, "War is Hell."
5
Similar to how we're in the process of eradicating black people who are shot and killed for not signaling, driving without a broken headlight, or standing on the sidewalk. Innocent people may be killed in the process but at least white people will be saved in the long run. Is that the line of thinking we're following now?
Lets hope for a speedy end for the attackers and a safe exit for everyone else.
36
My vote for the most sane comment!
Since it seems that the UN is constantly under attack, is it not perhaps time to form a UN Forces operation that includes soldiers from ALL countries instead of just the chosen few big ones like US,Russia, UK, France etc.
These attacks on human lives and normal human values is now a worldwide conflict and needs a worldwide solution. It's Nazism revisited.
These attacks on human lives and normal human values is now a worldwide conflict and needs a worldwide solution. It's Nazism revisited.
9
The "few big" countries actually contribute very few forces to the UN Peacekeeping ranks -- a few hundreds at best, and in some cases fewer than 100. On the other hand, thousands of soldiers come from more than a hundred other countries. Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Nepal, Jordan, Rwanda, Ghana, Ethiopia, and many other countries contribute between 2,000 and 8,000+ each. For detals, please see http://www.un.org/en/peacekeeping/resources/statistics/contributors_arch...
3
It seems to be the French, plus the regimes they've propped up in former colonies.
2