Any coalition must include creation of a centralized 'Bounty' system, wherein terrorists killed by (certified) Bounty hunters will receive a generous cash payment. The Bounty system has been used effectively for thousands of years with great success to control, destroy vermin of all sorts. Such a system will certainly enlist countless courageous, multi-national Bounty hunters. The Bounty system will play a large role, greatly contribute to the complete destruction, the total annihilation of the hideous muslim vermin attack on Western Civilization.
2
François Hollande's reaction is exactly what ISIS is expecting. It wants France and most desirably the US to put boots on the ground in Syria and Iraq. ISIS wants to prove itself militarily and be recognised as an equal of the West
But if Hollande digs in, he will be seen as weak. Indeed, there is no ideal advice, as how to react to these attacks.
But if Hollande digs in, he will be seen as weak. Indeed, there is no ideal advice, as how to react to these attacks.
2
Most days when I think about the plight of the Syrian refugees I can't help but be reminded of all the 20-something year old men fleeing Syrian. Unlike other countries these refugees are unwilling or unable to fight their invaders. Why should our country and others do the fighting when the locals will not?
3
Those who are calling for a stoppage of the immigrants into the US and European countries regardless of a vetting process should consider this: what is more likely to radicalize young Muslims who are seeking to migrate and who are not already radicalized: returning to Syria or migrating to a way of life that is free from the political and cultural forces of the Middle East? To turn these people back cart blanche is the worst thing we could do in radicalizing more Muslim youth. Do we have so little confidence in societies who practice freedom of and from religion?
6
Tell that to Hanover Germany who apparently just foiled a bomb in a stadium
HUMAN PRIDE, IGNORANCE AND FOOLISHNESS WILL NEVER END.
Fighting a guerrilla war with conventional military arsenal is the biggest blunder of the 21st century.
COLLATERAL DAMAGE: good men, women and children, lives worth just as much as the lives lost in France, in God's eyes, but maybe not in "political" or military eyes.
All the military bombing and drone wars does, is killed civilians -
more than the terrorists. This creates thousands of lost Middle Eastern families and thousands of permanent disabilities of good civilians, all of whom will then hate the bombers (Westerners) and from the rubble arises a whole new crop of terrorists with good reasons, from their prospective, to kill Westerners in revenge.
The only way to fight terrorism is with: FOOD; CLEAN WATER; HEALTH CARE AND HOSPITAL CARE; BUILDING HOMES; BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE; IMPROVING THE LIVES OF THE MOST DAMAGED PEOPLE ON EARTH.
The only role for the military, if there is one, is to guard and protect the people doing this good work to end terrorism.
130 French dead and hundreds wounded is a monumental tragedy, but I wish the tragedy in Gaza got equal time and media attention. There, hundreds of women and children died.
In Yemen, hundreds of innocent people are buried alive from the bombs we send to Saudi Arabia, whose hundreds of princes are the world's premier financer of international terrorism.
What a stupid mess this world is in, and it is not just the terrorists that make it that way.
Fighting a guerrilla war with conventional military arsenal is the biggest blunder of the 21st century.
COLLATERAL DAMAGE: good men, women and children, lives worth just as much as the lives lost in France, in God's eyes, but maybe not in "political" or military eyes.
All the military bombing and drone wars does, is killed civilians -
more than the terrorists. This creates thousands of lost Middle Eastern families and thousands of permanent disabilities of good civilians, all of whom will then hate the bombers (Westerners) and from the rubble arises a whole new crop of terrorists with good reasons, from their prospective, to kill Westerners in revenge.
The only way to fight terrorism is with: FOOD; CLEAN WATER; HEALTH CARE AND HOSPITAL CARE; BUILDING HOMES; BUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE; IMPROVING THE LIVES OF THE MOST DAMAGED PEOPLE ON EARTH.
The only role for the military, if there is one, is to guard and protect the people doing this good work to end terrorism.
130 French dead and hundreds wounded is a monumental tragedy, but I wish the tragedy in Gaza got equal time and media attention. There, hundreds of women and children died.
In Yemen, hundreds of innocent people are buried alive from the bombs we send to Saudi Arabia, whose hundreds of princes are the world's premier financer of international terrorism.
What a stupid mess this world is in, and it is not just the terrorists that make it that way.
5
Excellent post. Thank you!
1
There is one tiny ray of hope in this tragedy. ISIS has been openly condemned by Muslims of every stripe-Conservatives from Saudi Arabia and Iran, even Al Qaeda. Many conservative Muslims are recognizing for the first time that there are forms of Islam that are too conservative for them, which could lead to an new critical attitude towards reactionary Muslims of all sorts.
Unless Non-Muslims insist that there is no difference between ISIS and the rest of Islam, as do numerous commentators on these pages and elsewhere. This open hostility will drive the moderates and conservatives into the arms of ISIS, giving them a billion person recruiting base instead of the few tens of thousands they have now. Bigotry is so stupid and self-destructive.
Unless Non-Muslims insist that there is no difference between ISIS and the rest of Islam, as do numerous commentators on these pages and elsewhere. This open hostility will drive the moderates and conservatives into the arms of ISIS, giving them a billion person recruiting base instead of the few tens of thousands they have now. Bigotry is so stupid and self-destructive.
1
It would be nice to see an international meeting of Muslim clerics at which they would address how Islam is being high jacked by radicals.
5
I've never understood why Europeon nations have had open borders for all these immigrants. These countries have welcomed immigrants who have nothing but disdain for western culture. The vast majority of these people do not want to assimilate, but merely reap the economic benefits of western economies. With a low birth rate it is only a matter of time that Muslims are a majority in these countries. Because those in power in the last decades have been so blithe they have only themselves to blame as right wing parties throughout Europe will undoubtedly rise.
5
I live in Paris. My beliefs have moved toward the right since Friday.
I have supported "the right to be forgotten", personal privacy, held a neutral position on airstrikes in the Middle-East, believing they were costly, killed civilians and were not particularly effective.
Equally, I have written that Daesh was becoming stronger, and likened them, and their brutality, to Nazis.
Today, France discusses using the "S" list, a list of 10,000 suspected terrorists, based on their travel history and internet usage. Now, I support deportation or house arrest of those on the "S" list, and full monitoring of their internet usage.
Molenbeek, Belgium, is home to terrorists, some of whom attacked Paris Friday. European countries must place their suspected terrorists under house arrest, and monitor internet and phone use, or deport them.
Oil and antiquities sales fund Daesh, and up to 40 countries. We must destroy oil sources, weapons depots and jihadist training centers. Antiquities must be stopped in transit, and relations cut with funding countries.
I've not welcomed the surge of Middle Eastern immigrants, as their support is costly and they overcrowd.
Now, I do not want to accept any of them, given that some of them are indeed Jihadists.
I have absolute trust in my French Muslim friends and their families, and would not urge hatred of Muslims, the great majority of whom are not extremists.
But it seems, the rights of some must now be set aside for the greater good.
I have supported "the right to be forgotten", personal privacy, held a neutral position on airstrikes in the Middle-East, believing they were costly, killed civilians and were not particularly effective.
Equally, I have written that Daesh was becoming stronger, and likened them, and their brutality, to Nazis.
Today, France discusses using the "S" list, a list of 10,000 suspected terrorists, based on their travel history and internet usage. Now, I support deportation or house arrest of those on the "S" list, and full monitoring of their internet usage.
Molenbeek, Belgium, is home to terrorists, some of whom attacked Paris Friday. European countries must place their suspected terrorists under house arrest, and monitor internet and phone use, or deport them.
Oil and antiquities sales fund Daesh, and up to 40 countries. We must destroy oil sources, weapons depots and jihadist training centers. Antiquities must be stopped in transit, and relations cut with funding countries.
I've not welcomed the surge of Middle Eastern immigrants, as their support is costly and they overcrowd.
Now, I do not want to accept any of them, given that some of them are indeed Jihadists.
I have absolute trust in my French Muslim friends and their families, and would not urge hatred of Muslims, the great majority of whom are not extremists.
But it seems, the rights of some must now be set aside for the greater good.
6
God Bless Europe
1
Incredible that some of these people were on "watch lists". What does that mean, exactly? We watch them commit acts of terrorism? Any person with ties to ISIS needs to be stripped of citizenship and deported back to his squalid country of origin. Europe needs to become a fortress so that it can continue to be a beacon to the world, not descend into chaos.
5
"Terrorism will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy it." Yes, the Republic will destroy the Republic!
1
While security is number one, France should copy the U.S. and allow minorities to feel they have a stake in French life so they don't feel so isloated. Remember, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
2
The sad truth is that France and the EU put more effort in labeling tomatoes from Israel than they do in labeling terrorists.
5
What's past is prologue…
Depending on one's sensibilities and understanding of the potential end point(s), one could describe the current global threat as incipient–(and of Obama's and H. Clinton's own making)–as late as June of 2014: ISIS was easy pickings then as the marauding band crossed the deserts of western Iraq in souped-up pickup trucks, assembling its caliphate, stopping only for the televised beheadings, the rapes and the pillaging.
Similarly, al Qaeda in 1993, 2 days after the attack, when Bill Clinton, only 15 minutes away from ground zero, refused to visit the bombed-out Twin Towers: Had he seen the yawning hole, perhaps he would have acted….
Throughout his presidency, for self-serving reasons, Clinton rejected numerous opportunities to nail bin Laden and stop al Qaeda before it metastasized.
See Richard Miniter's book, "Losing Bin Laden: How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror," for the details of the revelation as to why Clinton wouldn't go after bin Laden; it was made by SoS Madeleine Albright at the cabinet meeting that would decide the disposition of the USS Cole bombing by al Qaeda. The short answer: Clinton's lust for the Nobel Peace Prize took precedence over his only charge as president: to defend and protect this country.
Conversely, I wonder if Obama's need to assemble retroactive justification for his unearned Nobel Peace Prize is not one factor in his failure to satisfy his presidential obligation….
Depending on one's sensibilities and understanding of the potential end point(s), one could describe the current global threat as incipient–(and of Obama's and H. Clinton's own making)–as late as June of 2014: ISIS was easy pickings then as the marauding band crossed the deserts of western Iraq in souped-up pickup trucks, assembling its caliphate, stopping only for the televised beheadings, the rapes and the pillaging.
Similarly, al Qaeda in 1993, 2 days after the attack, when Bill Clinton, only 15 minutes away from ground zero, refused to visit the bombed-out Twin Towers: Had he seen the yawning hole, perhaps he would have acted….
Throughout his presidency, for self-serving reasons, Clinton rejected numerous opportunities to nail bin Laden and stop al Qaeda before it metastasized.
See Richard Miniter's book, "Losing Bin Laden: How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror," for the details of the revelation as to why Clinton wouldn't go after bin Laden; it was made by SoS Madeleine Albright at the cabinet meeting that would decide the disposition of the USS Cole bombing by al Qaeda. The short answer: Clinton's lust for the Nobel Peace Prize took precedence over his only charge as president: to defend and protect this country.
Conversely, I wonder if Obama's need to assemble retroactive justification for his unearned Nobel Peace Prize is not one factor in his failure to satisfy his presidential obligation….
In your recap of the recent Past, you overlooked the Gap Years between B. Clinton and B. Obama. An extra-planetary visitor might assume there was a period of benign Peace and Prosperity sandwiched between the presidential failings of the two men you second guess. As I recall, there were significant events in the Gap Years that may have contributed to the current situation.
5
You overstate my narrow point, which is presidential failure to eradicate the incipient threat of radical Islam.
Perhaps statements directly from the participants may help you focus on the right presidents.
“The former president seems to be able to deny facts with impunity. Bin Laden is alive today because Mr. Clinton, Mr. Sandy Berger, and Mr. Richard Clarke refused to kill him. That's the bottom line. Clinton had 8 to 10 chances and he refused to try."
Michael Scheuer
CIA chief of Bin Laden tracking unit (1996-99),
special advisor to Bin Laden tracking unit (09/01-11/04)
“Anytime somebody said…'If you don't do this people will think you're weak,' I always asked the same question for 8 yrs: 'Can we kill 'em tomorrow?' If we can kill 'em tomorrow, then we're not weak and we might be wise enough to try to find an alternative way."
Bill Clinton
Fulbright Prize address
4/12/06
"I remember exactly what happened. Bruce Lindsey said to me on the phone, 'My God, a second plane has hit the tower.' And I said, 'Bin Laden did this.' that's the first thing I said…I thought that my virtual obsession with him was well placed and I was full of regret that I didn't get him."
Bill Clinton
Sunday, Sept 3, 2002
Larry King Live
"You know, the job which we should have done, which should have been our primary focus, to find bin Laden and eliminate al Qaeda."
Hillary Clinton
1/28/06
to Jane Pauley
SF, CA
Perhaps statements directly from the participants may help you focus on the right presidents.
“The former president seems to be able to deny facts with impunity. Bin Laden is alive today because Mr. Clinton, Mr. Sandy Berger, and Mr. Richard Clarke refused to kill him. That's the bottom line. Clinton had 8 to 10 chances and he refused to try."
Michael Scheuer
CIA chief of Bin Laden tracking unit (1996-99),
special advisor to Bin Laden tracking unit (09/01-11/04)
“Anytime somebody said…'If you don't do this people will think you're weak,' I always asked the same question for 8 yrs: 'Can we kill 'em tomorrow?' If we can kill 'em tomorrow, then we're not weak and we might be wise enough to try to find an alternative way."
Bill Clinton
Fulbright Prize address
4/12/06
"I remember exactly what happened. Bruce Lindsey said to me on the phone, 'My God, a second plane has hit the tower.' And I said, 'Bin Laden did this.' that's the first thing I said…I thought that my virtual obsession with him was well placed and I was full of regret that I didn't get him."
Bill Clinton
Sunday, Sept 3, 2002
Larry King Live
"You know, the job which we should have done, which should have been our primary focus, to find bin Laden and eliminate al Qaeda."
Hillary Clinton
1/28/06
to Jane Pauley
SF, CA
George Bush knew about the twin towers threats in early August 2001 so stop with your Clinton/Obama bashing.
2
Who is Hollande trying to fool? France has been occupying Muslim countries, helping others to occupy Muslim lands and killing Muslims in their own countries for the last 200 years. French war against Muslims has been an ongoing and continuous "French FEAST" for a long time now. What the French did in Algeria; the French role in Zionist occupation of Palestine; I do also know the French role in splitting off Lebanon from Syria. The French are treacherous from the top of the head to the sole of their shoes.
2
When we bombed the hell out of Iraq we caused untold civilian casualties. Many families had their lives shattered. Fathers were no longer there to take care of their children. Boys grew to manhood without any sense of normality. A number have bought in to ISIS mentality. They now had an enemy to focus on-The West. Like the Vietnamese who could care less about communism these young men and women were recruited to attack those who had turned their lives upside down.
4
America and NATO are BEYOND the Law. If you do not stop such postings CIA may want to talk with you.
1
Someone please tell me where is someone please tell me WHERE IS SAUDIA ARABIA in this? Why aren't they take no in any of their own Sunni brethren?
Why aren't the defending their allies like the US?!
Ask the bush family they are best of friends.
Why aren't the defending their allies like the US?!
Ask the bush family they are best of friends.
7
At best, try to recruit some of these Syrian refugees to infiltrate ISIS
At worst..try to scrap up the remnants of the Baath party and cut a deal..
Run want ads in local Mid East papers..Wanted: ruthless iron fist rulers for various appoints in the middle east..must have experience.
It's time to get back to the old play book.. puppet rulers under the personal care and supervision of the G-5
At worst..try to scrap up the remnants of the Baath party and cut a deal..
Run want ads in local Mid East papers..Wanted: ruthless iron fist rulers for various appoints in the middle east..must have experience.
It's time to get back to the old play book.. puppet rulers under the personal care and supervision of the G-5
2
We are yoked with France through NATO which clearly states, "when one of the members is hurt, the rest immediately come to their aid." Not in this case, which has Obama scared of his won shadow. All of his lines in the sand has sent the message that the U.S. will do nothing.
3
Hollande declares war. Putin vows revenge. Obama, who is supposedly the leader of the free world, temporizes. I think he is more interested in his legacy than in doing what it takes. His strategy has failed. Even the Pope says it's WW III. But Obama fiddles while Rome burns.
3
What free world? America is the leader of the predatory band called NATO. America has abolished INDIVIDUAL slavery, but has started to keep NATIONS as slaves. There will be no free world as long as NATO lives.
1
The best way to eradicate French born terrorists, is not in bombing ISIS and raiding the Cite only.
it is a cocktail of the above PLUS providing economic development to disenfranchised french citizens whose last name sounds too Muslim. It is in ceasing the inherent racism toward them, it is in making them part of the "tissu social de la France".
Then and only then would there be hope.
Bombing only has never solved a problem. They need to win the heart and soul of all the French.
it is a cocktail of the above PLUS providing economic development to disenfranchised french citizens whose last name sounds too Muslim. It is in ceasing the inherent racism toward them, it is in making them part of the "tissu social de la France".
Then and only then would there be hope.
Bombing only has never solved a problem. They need to win the heart and soul of all the French.
This war, like so many others, is a war of ideals. It is not about geographical spaces or resources such as oil or gold. ISIS, Al Quada, etc... are crusaders. If ISIS merely wanted to acquire a physical Caliphate with geographical boundaries they would not be provoking Western nations. The leaders of these radical movements have only one goal- the expansion of radicalism. Similar to the imperialist imperative of the early 2oth century "make the world English," these current crusaders envision a globe with a homogeneous religion adhering to the Holy Koran. - There is only one way to deal with such people.
2
Convert???
1
Isis has an address and it is occupied by Isis soldiers. Demands that Obama have a "strategy" are ridiculous posturing. Everyone knows the strategy; it is very basic. Some nation or group of nations must provide the manpower to go into Iraq and maybe Syria and kill the Isis soldiers on the ground. Do you think France will step up? Not likely. How about Germany, or Russia ? Not likely. No nation wants to provide the manpower. They want the U.S. to step up instead and Republicans think that is very good idea. The Republicans do not learn from history.
We have been there, done that, and it doesn't work. It is impossible to go in, kill the bad guys , let the good guys take over and then leave. Killing the bad guys is the easy part but there are no good guys. Whoever kills the bad guys must occupy the country forever to keep the bad guys from coming back. That is a basic truism that Bush Jr. and his successors have never grasped.
We have been there, done that, and it doesn't work. It is impossible to go in, kill the bad guys , let the good guys take over and then leave. Killing the bad guys is the easy part but there are no good guys. Whoever kills the bad guys must occupy the country forever to keep the bad guys from coming back. That is a basic truism that Bush Jr. and his successors have never grasped.
3
The French president wants to make the same draconian infringement of individual rights that the U.S. did after 9/11. The problem is the French don't take these terrorists seriously. After the three Americans subdued the terrorist on the train with a gun heading to Paris they should have stepped up their surveillance. It's too bad they did not have another three Americans to stop the carnage on Friday.
2
For President Hollande to "eradicate" the Islamic State abroad will take more than just declaring war on ISIL and other terrorist groups. Fourteen years ago the U.S. essentially set off to war to root out and eradicate terrorists who seek to destroy western life ways. Since then, terrorists have grown in number and attacks more widespread. We know constant skirmishes fuel a global war industry, but the cost to humanity has grown too high. Western leaders must opt to use the nuclear option to attack two Islamic terrorist hubs with apologies to no one.
It's chaos.
What does President Obama say... it's the JV squad... but we have them contained. The United States is finally stripped...
And the words from Israel make sense.
If we listen to President Hollande, this is a world war.. against an enemy armed with cell phones and hand weapons... pop guns, strafing a concert crowd.
It does not matter where we look, or who speaks...
It is chaos. We have the leadership in the USA splattering different views...
The fat is in the fire... and the presidential campaign is in chaos over this.
Sen. Jos. McCarthy frightened President Dwight David Eisenhower and the plight of Gen. George Marshall was ignored.
Terrorists are frightening the world.
The first casualty in war is truth... but that Russian jet was bombed...
New cell phones are encrypted... and Homeland is powerless.
Shall we ask Putin to send Snowden home for a consultation?
What does President Obama say... it's the JV squad... but we have them contained. The United States is finally stripped...
And the words from Israel make sense.
If we listen to President Hollande, this is a world war.. against an enemy armed with cell phones and hand weapons... pop guns, strafing a concert crowd.
It does not matter where we look, or who speaks...
It is chaos. We have the leadership in the USA splattering different views...
The fat is in the fire... and the presidential campaign is in chaos over this.
Sen. Jos. McCarthy frightened President Dwight David Eisenhower and the plight of Gen. George Marshall was ignored.
Terrorists are frightening the world.
The first casualty in war is truth... but that Russian jet was bombed...
New cell phones are encrypted... and Homeland is powerless.
Shall we ask Putin to send Snowden home for a consultation?
1
Some of these measures might be justified from a security perspective, but the whole thing reeks of political opportunism by Hollande, who has been deeply unpopular with the French public for a long time and now sees a chance to recover some political support.
as usual, too little too late. does France's parliament need to approve a declaration of war? What does he mean by war? Dropping some bombs that kill mainly civies in Syria? All I hear anymore is empty slogans. Supposedly free countries wherein the govt does as it wishes with no regard for the law or the wishes of the people. Perhaps it is because people act like pigs...as long as they are given slop in which to wallow, they care not what farmer brown is doing? We all know how it ends up for the cute piggies, don't we.
Why was a passport was found on the body of one of the killers in Paris? A murderer who must have fully expected to die and have his body searched? A passport easily traced and identifiable as belonging to a supposed refugee fleeing to Europe from war torn Syria? Doesn't it stand to reason that it was intended to be found by its owner after he was "martyred"? And that the hope was that it would be used as "proof" that the escape of refugees from Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan must be stopped?
The 9/11 hijackers succeeded beyond their wildest dreams because of the baldly political reactions of our leaders, stoking our fears, stroking our wounded pride. So far it has cost us the lives of 5,000+ servicemen and women, hundreds of thousands of civilians, trillions of dollars and a few amendments to the Constitution. Fourteen years later, Afghanistan is still effectively controlled by the Taliban. Iraq, formerly a stable society where a despot ruled but terrorism was unknown is a violent shambles divided by tribe and sect. Pakistan, Libya, Yemen... the War On Terror knows no bounds. And no success.
Hollande and the citizens of France should take a breath and look to our recent history before surrendering their civil liberties and sacrificing their young.
The 9/11 hijackers succeeded beyond their wildest dreams because of the baldly political reactions of our leaders, stoking our fears, stroking our wounded pride. So far it has cost us the lives of 5,000+ servicemen and women, hundreds of thousands of civilians, trillions of dollars and a few amendments to the Constitution. Fourteen years later, Afghanistan is still effectively controlled by the Taliban. Iraq, formerly a stable society where a despot ruled but terrorism was unknown is a violent shambles divided by tribe and sect. Pakistan, Libya, Yemen... the War On Terror knows no bounds. And no success.
Hollande and the citizens of France should take a breath and look to our recent history before surrendering their civil liberties and sacrificing their young.
2
"President François Hollande of France called on Monday for constitutional amendments to fight potential terrorists at home..."
So basically, the terrorists won.
So basically, the terrorists won.
1
I'm sure this must have been said, but M Hollande's words are almost a copy of George W Bush's "War on Terror" speech that followed 9/11. That playbook has had some shortcomings.
2
"Mr. Hollande called for quick action by Parliament on new legislation that would give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest."
How do you say "Patriot Act" in French?
How do you say "Patriot Act" in French?
Hollande has been unpopular in France, faces an election soon, and has shown weak or no leadership, deferring to Merkel on everything including refugees.
His "declaration of war" is a domestic political maneuver. Worth ignoring.
Let's get some perspective on the 129 deaths, vs. 41K/yr in the US from second-hand smoking. Occasionally losing a couple of hundred people isn't a measure of the proximate stakes here.
Daesh gets $500 million/yr in oil revenue. They can buy nuclear weapons from Kim or Pakistan, bring them in from Mexico, blow up DC and decapitate us.
We lack the technology, the military or the intelligence resources to eliminate Daesh. With or without "boots on the ground." Same for Putin, he's not Superman. We've got a President who came to office with zero military, intelligence or executive experience, and who hasn't become more effective in office.
Knock out Daesh's sources of revenue, interdict their territory, protect the US from their likely WMD attacks on us, wipe out or neutralize nuclear proliferators.
It's certainly true that only an infinitesimal fraction of Muslims are mass murderers killing hundreds or thousands of victims. But a very high percentage of such mass murderers are Muslims.
So, figure out what it is that we have to fear in the US, and reduce our risks rather than adding to them.
His "declaration of war" is a domestic political maneuver. Worth ignoring.
Let's get some perspective on the 129 deaths, vs. 41K/yr in the US from second-hand smoking. Occasionally losing a couple of hundred people isn't a measure of the proximate stakes here.
Daesh gets $500 million/yr in oil revenue. They can buy nuclear weapons from Kim or Pakistan, bring them in from Mexico, blow up DC and decapitate us.
We lack the technology, the military or the intelligence resources to eliminate Daesh. With or without "boots on the ground." Same for Putin, he's not Superman. We've got a President who came to office with zero military, intelligence or executive experience, and who hasn't become more effective in office.
Knock out Daesh's sources of revenue, interdict their territory, protect the US from their likely WMD attacks on us, wipe out or neutralize nuclear proliferators.
It's certainly true that only an infinitesimal fraction of Muslims are mass murderers killing hundreds or thousands of victims. But a very high percentage of such mass murderers are Muslims.
So, figure out what it is that we have to fear in the US, and reduce our risks rather than adding to them.
2
Two thoughts. First the Humvee pictured was likely paid for by US tax dollars. Second, why don't NATO counties cancel all passports if citizens decide to visit Syria without a special exception - or make the person re-apply for a passport?
Looking back on Syria and the events that followed their initial protests leading to their civil war, Assad looks pretty good now?!
There is a lesson here for the western world; mind our own business when it comes to Islamic struggles in the middle east. We just make matters worse when we get involved with a people who do best when they have a strong autocratic/dictator leader. Just look at Saudia Arabia and how they treat their own people; we have looked the other way for decades because of oil, but they treat their people no better than Assad, Hussein or Kaddafi. it is not a coincidence that 17/19 Sept 11 terrorist were Saudis.
The C- student, George W. opened pandoras box by invading Iraq; another lesson, don't elect a dope for a President.
There is a lesson here for the western world; mind our own business when it comes to Islamic struggles in the middle east. We just make matters worse when we get involved with a people who do best when they have a strong autocratic/dictator leader. Just look at Saudia Arabia and how they treat their own people; we have looked the other way for decades because of oil, but they treat their people no better than Assad, Hussein or Kaddafi. it is not a coincidence that 17/19 Sept 11 terrorist were Saudis.
The C- student, George W. opened pandoras box by invading Iraq; another lesson, don't elect a dope for a President.
2
The mindless American political partisanship that has resulted in legislative stalemates in Washington that we all deride is embodied in many of the op-Eds and reader comments found in this article and paper. I wonder if the burning desire for democrats to blame Bush or republicans to blame Obama for everything is a result of our weak public education system or culturally induced short attention span?
3
Most of the terrorist involved in the Paris attacks were living in Belguim or France. They chose to become radical, but we're not assimilated. Was part of their radiicalized the lack of jobs and negative attitudes of countryment?
Don't repeat our country's mistakes by hurdling into an intractable, fruitless conflict and by compromising your citizens' rights to due process and privacy.
for the past 2 days the Times is playing games with the facts regarding the attacker that entered france as a recent migrant. i know what they're doing and why, but it's not the job of the Times to editorialize in this capacity when they should be giving the readers the FACTS and the FACTS only.
here's what they've done-
1- intentionally creating confusion by saying the passport found at the sports arena matches a passport found at checkpoints in greece and serbia, but that it's "unclear whether the passport is authentic".
2- the Times is ignoring and withholding the fact that this same attackers' finger was found at the scene and it's print matches fingerprints taken at the same greek checkpoint belonging to the same syrian passport.
why won't the NYT tell it's readers that one of the attackers was a recent migrant? why won't the NYT do it's job and report the facts?
here's what they've done-
1- intentionally creating confusion by saying the passport found at the sports arena matches a passport found at checkpoints in greece and serbia, but that it's "unclear whether the passport is authentic".
2- the Times is ignoring and withholding the fact that this same attackers' finger was found at the scene and it's print matches fingerprints taken at the same greek checkpoint belonging to the same syrian passport.
why won't the NYT tell it's readers that one of the attackers was a recent migrant? why won't the NYT do it's job and report the facts?
1
When will the muslim leaders in Mecca start denouncing the terror that is committed in the name of their religion? They were fast to denounce Salman Rushdie and cartoonists for diffamation. It is seems a minor crime when compared to the bloodshed they say nothing about.
I caution the French people to allow your government to curtail liberties. America is still living under the Patriot Act and lawmakers refuse to abolish it.
We must act against terrorism in order to protect our liberties. Sad, disheartening, but true. We have been showing way too much tolerant for the openly intolerant within our borders.
Insulting or belittling Hollande will not make things better. I support the fact that he is trying to do something to not only heal the pride of his country, but to try and make things safer. And I love the revocation of passport. That's a good idea. Maybe America can do that too?
There is definitely a downward spiral here... they will come to regret this !
"Mr. Hollande called for quick action by Parliament on new legislation that would give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest"
"Mr. Hollande called for quick action by Parliament on new legislation that would give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest"
Change the Constitution?
Tell him to keep his hands off our Constitution. We changed it and are we safer? Feel the world is safer? Made Americans safer from their own government?
I would suggest that the French change the name of French Fries to Freedom Fries and nothing more.
In fact the right in America did that and see what it produced! More expensive fries.
But here is a better solution: drop pigs and pig parts all over the mid east.
It worked in the Philipines after America stole that country from Spain in 1898 after the planned war against Spain based on government lies to Americans. 15,000 Islamic killed by American invading forces were buried with pigs. That was the end of that war for independence by the people who previously were at war with Spain to be freed from imperialism.
But it can be assumed and feared that the crazies at home will join the crazies abraod to continue a "1984" type war forever.
War is Peace! (and so forth).
Tell him to keep his hands off our Constitution. We changed it and are we safer? Feel the world is safer? Made Americans safer from their own government?
I would suggest that the French change the name of French Fries to Freedom Fries and nothing more.
In fact the right in America did that and see what it produced! More expensive fries.
But here is a better solution: drop pigs and pig parts all over the mid east.
It worked in the Philipines after America stole that country from Spain in 1898 after the planned war against Spain based on government lies to Americans. 15,000 Islamic killed by American invading forces were buried with pigs. That was the end of that war for independence by the people who previously were at war with Spain to be freed from imperialism.
But it can be assumed and feared that the crazies at home will join the crazies abraod to continue a "1984" type war forever.
War is Peace! (and so forth).
1
France is one great big "gun free zone" so what does the government that imposed this nonsense on its people propose? Why a crackdown on it's citizens for the problem it created of course. Sounds just like Obama/Clinton's USA.
France was the voice of sanity in 2003 when the Bush/Cheney administration was hell bent on a pointless war against the wrong country. Now they seem determined to repeat every one of our mistakes. Dignifying a terrorist act by calling it "war" instead of the crime that it is? Check. Tossing Constitutional principles out the window in the name of security? Check. A bidding war on who can be toughest on immigration, so that innocent people suffer and everyone is harassed at airports? Check. The fact as that the minute you say "This is war," instead of "This is a crime," the terrorists have already won.
1
Bernard- Henri Levy wrote an article on Nov. 16. "Thinking the unthinkable. This is war." It appeared in Toronto's "The Globe and Mail" today, worth a read.
Why is it that France is just now bombing the epicenter of the training facilitiy for IS? Why didn't the US and others do this a long time ago? Seems to me to be a little too little too late. But better late than never.
As the brilliant military strategist General 'fighting Joe' Scarborough said this morning, "Putin is putting in the A team, and even Hollander is going to eradicate the global enemy, while Obama is only 'running out the cloak' with no change in his non-strategy".
So here's the answer to our political and military weakness going forward --- let's "Draft Putin" for President of this Disguised Global Crony-Capitalist Empire of America in the 2016 (s)election, dump the current whimp, and all the other neocon 'R' Vichy party whimps like Trump, Rubio, Bush, and all the neoliberal-cons of the 'D' Vichy party like O'Malley, Sanders, and even the weak war-Empress Clinton.
Hell, we don't need no stinkin Socialist --- we'll have our own gutsy, bear-riding Commie to start WW III
So here's the answer to our political and military weakness going forward --- let's "Draft Putin" for President of this Disguised Global Crony-Capitalist Empire of America in the 2016 (s)election, dump the current whimp, and all the other neocon 'R' Vichy party whimps like Trump, Rubio, Bush, and all the neoliberal-cons of the 'D' Vichy party like O'Malley, Sanders, and even the weak war-Empress Clinton.
Hell, we don't need no stinkin Socialist --- we'll have our own gutsy, bear-riding Commie to start WW III
1
If France was serious about combating terrorism it would allow its own citizens to own and bear arms. The police almost always arrive after the fact.
Tuesday, November 17, 2015
Imagine… I’m not sure what was more revealing during Obama’s delusional remarks regards the terror that has befallen Paris and the world as a result of Obama’s inept leadership. It’s not often we get to witness the stunned silence of Obama’s socialist lap-dog’s a.k.a. the mainstream news media silenced; or not quick to defend their savior with ready rhetoric.
Imagine… maybe those pundits and journalist with the mainstream news media came to the realization that they are as guilty as Obama regards the horror we get to witness daily on our flat screens. I doubt it, but it’s a thought. Or maybe our favorites with the mainstream news media were just trying to equate Obama’s lackluster performance to Jet-Lag, Teleprompter-Lag or the fallacy of the Straw man Obama was trying to blame his inept leadership on.
Imagine… some retired - Generals, Colonels, Majors, Captains, news reporters, columnist, and pundits are now saying Obama is delusional! Frankly, I have never given Obama the benefit of being delusional. I have always thought Obama is no more then a glib street hustler in search of a straw man and suckers for his shell games. Has anyone given any thought to term limits, impeachment or imprisonment! Ain’t life grand in Pixie Hollow? WFR
Imagine… I’m not sure what was more revealing during Obama’s delusional remarks regards the terror that has befallen Paris and the world as a result of Obama’s inept leadership. It’s not often we get to witness the stunned silence of Obama’s socialist lap-dog’s a.k.a. the mainstream news media silenced; or not quick to defend their savior with ready rhetoric.
Imagine… maybe those pundits and journalist with the mainstream news media came to the realization that they are as guilty as Obama regards the horror we get to witness daily on our flat screens. I doubt it, but it’s a thought. Or maybe our favorites with the mainstream news media were just trying to equate Obama’s lackluster performance to Jet-Lag, Teleprompter-Lag or the fallacy of the Straw man Obama was trying to blame his inept leadership on.
Imagine… some retired - Generals, Colonels, Majors, Captains, news reporters, columnist, and pundits are now saying Obama is delusional! Frankly, I have never given Obama the benefit of being delusional. I have always thought Obama is no more then a glib street hustler in search of a straw man and suckers for his shell games. Has anyone given any thought to term limits, impeachment or imprisonment! Ain’t life grand in Pixie Hollow? WFR
Mr. Hollande's response is why the terrorist are winning. A police state is not the answer.I may be paranoid but I think sometimes the governments aren't all that upset about these acts. Their first response is always to strip their citizens of as many rights as they can as fast as they can.History tells us some of the worst despots have come to power using terror as an excuse. The French people should be careful
Just look at the last names of these terrorists and you know who to target. "Profiling" will not catch everyone, but to paraphrase Willie Sutton: you rob banks because that's where the money is.
Those who think that ISIS is not a state and therefore not a legitimate target of war, are mislead by semantics. ISIS has an army of several thousand and that's all you need. It will require "boots-on-the-ground and I can think of no better boots than those belonging to the US, France, England, Germany, and Australia (why Australia? - They always seem ready for a fight.)
Those who think ISIS will magically disappear after some diplomatic negotiations are dreaming in LaLaLand.
Those who think that ISIS is not a state and therefore not a legitimate target of war, are mislead by semantics. ISIS has an army of several thousand and that's all you need. It will require "boots-on-the-ground and I can think of no better boots than those belonging to the US, France, England, Germany, and Australia (why Australia? - They always seem ready for a fight.)
Those who think ISIS will magically disappear after some diplomatic negotiations are dreaming in LaLaLand.
IS, while claiming to be a state and a Caliphate, is basically a cult and cannot be killed by bombing from afar.
Destroying IS will take boots on the ground which France is not willing to provide - and for a good reason.
Which is not the problem of Hollande.
France is in an economic downturn, has numerous social problems and no solution so far.
Which is the problem of Hollande.
So Hollande does what every weak and stupid politician does, he goes to war.
After all it worked for Bush and Obama.
What can possibly go wrong?
Destroying IS will take boots on the ground which France is not willing to provide - and for a good reason.
Which is not the problem of Hollande.
France is in an economic downturn, has numerous social problems and no solution so far.
Which is the problem of Hollande.
So Hollande does what every weak and stupid politician does, he goes to war.
After all it worked for Bush and Obama.
What can possibly go wrong?
So send your own troops to Syria The Bush war has exhausted the people he sent to war in Iraq.
The United States can't do it alone nor can NATO. The fight against terrorism needs help from Asia, Africa and Europe.
To call for us to go it alone is irresponsible, Republicans in the US Conservatives in Israel, Russia, Turkey are part of the problem and they are only making it worse.
The United States can't do it alone nor can NATO. The fight against terrorism needs help from Asia, Africa and Europe.
To call for us to go it alone is irresponsible, Republicans in the US Conservatives in Israel, Russia, Turkey are part of the problem and they are only making it worse.
1
France beware. You lost some citizens to a group of mentally unstable people. Do not let your government sell you a "Patriot Act" that strips you of your constitutional rights. Don't be cowards like the USA, take the risk of losing a few hundred more citizens and chalk it up to doing your part in the "war against..."
Turns out today's Americans don't want to risk their lives for their freedom, do you?
Turns out today's Americans don't want to risk their lives for their freedom, do you?
The US attacks ISIS with no casualties for 1 1/2 years and ISIS retaliates against Russia and France. Looks like President Obama is doing great here.
France is doing exactly what ISIS wanted it to do, as if it was dictated by ISIS.
"Mohamed Abdeslam, a brother of two men who helped carry out Friday's terrorist attacks in Paris, said on Monday that neither he nor his family could have imagined his brothers would be involved." First of all, Sharia Law allows Muslims to lie to infidels (Non Muslims) in the furtherance of Jihad, so Mr. Abdeslam is not telling us the truth. Second All civilized countries now need to pass a law that anyone caught plotting a terrorist attack or carrying one out has his entire family immediately deported to the country of origin or their ancestors origin. Remove the Paris terrorists' families from the cushy Belgian welfare system today. Record their finger prints and DNA, and deport them back to their real and cultural home tomorrow, and do not allow them into a civilized country again. Any possessions they can't carry home in a suitcase should be sold and the money given to terrorist victims. As it is the families aid and abet the terrorists while living without working on the money of the taxpayers they are killing. A lot of terrorists would think twice before killing us if they knew their families would be immediately sent back to the hell holes from which they had crawled to the civilized nations they now terrorize.
"His biological father, Abdulfattah Jandali, was a Syrian Muslim immigrant who later married Ms Schieble. He has said they did not want to put their baby up for adoption, but his girlfriend’s parents would not initially allow her to marry an Arab." I muse if there would ve been a Steve Jobs if Syrian immigrants were stopped.
Dear People of the word,
People of the world.....
Do you know the truth about..... Islam?
Or do you think it's about
Bombing planes and killing innocent people.....?
Forget about the lies.....
I' am here to tell you how it really is.....
You deserve to know the truth
About this beautiful way of life.....
People of the world
Islam is all about peace
Terrorism it doesn't teach
Its all about love and family and charity
And praying to one God
This is Islam
It's something you should know.....
I know it's really helped me grow
It does away with greed, filth, arrogance
And teaches us morality
A perfect way to live.....
So don't believe all you see and hear
Too many people wear a title of a Muslim.....
But they don't practice Islam.....
People of the world
Islam is all about peace
Terrorism it doesn't teach
Its all about love and family and charity
And praying to one God
This is Islam
And it teaches us the creator's made this life for us a test.....
And if we follow truth and do good deeds, He'll reward us in the Next.....
If we remember God & teach each other the truth and patience in His way
Together we can live.....in peace.....
This is Islam
Please Google Islamic research foundation and visit the FAQ section for answers to questions you may have about Islam.
I am sure that you will find that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, justice, kindness, charity, love and worshiping one God.
Best regards.
People of the world.....
Do you know the truth about..... Islam?
Or do you think it's about
Bombing planes and killing innocent people.....?
Forget about the lies.....
I' am here to tell you how it really is.....
You deserve to know the truth
About this beautiful way of life.....
People of the world
Islam is all about peace
Terrorism it doesn't teach
Its all about love and family and charity
And praying to one God
This is Islam
It's something you should know.....
I know it's really helped me grow
It does away with greed, filth, arrogance
And teaches us morality
A perfect way to live.....
So don't believe all you see and hear
Too many people wear a title of a Muslim.....
But they don't practice Islam.....
People of the world
Islam is all about peace
Terrorism it doesn't teach
Its all about love and family and charity
And praying to one God
This is Islam
And it teaches us the creator's made this life for us a test.....
And if we follow truth and do good deeds, He'll reward us in the Next.....
If we remember God & teach each other the truth and patience in His way
Together we can live.....in peace.....
This is Islam
Please Google Islamic research foundation and visit the FAQ section for answers to questions you may have about Islam.
I am sure that you will find that Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, justice, kindness, charity, love and worshiping one God.
Best regards.
1
Sorry, but your fellow Islamists seem to see it differently. And have to say, you sound like you are recruiting vs discussing and therein lies the difference. Let people be.
France is taking over leadership of the free world. Once you have a leader who believes in what he is doing, others are drawn to the cause, like steel filings to a magnet.
time for all sane democracies to revisit the laterally inserted, most misunderstood and abused word of secularism in their constitutions. ironically the oppressors of others are vocal proponents of secularism as long as they are minorities. but its just a one way traffic.
First reaction from the government: let's take away EVERYONE'S rights to pursue 100 people. Second reaction from people "let's allow the government to take away our rights without a fight"
Is the illusion of security really that important that we are willing to give away the certainty of our rights?
Is the illusion of security really that important that we are willing to give away the certainty of our rights?
The headline should have been: "ISIS declares Victory as France succumbs to Political Hysteria."
I live in Budapest and last night the Hungarian news reported that the "Syrian" passport referred to in this article is actually a fake passport and just yesterday another man with the exact same passport entered Serbia.
GOOD LUCK achieving your objectives Mr. Hollande. The French public needs to be especially vigilant about the constitutional changes he is proposing. There does need to be an increased level of scrutiny and vigilance in following the actions of suspects, to be able to predict and perhaps prevent future attacks. I'm sure that Hollande will consult with the US NSA for techniques in generating metadata about the communication patterns of current suspects without notifying them. The national security is at stake if they're overlooked again. Likewise those traveling to & from countries known to train terrorists, especially those who are passing through or have arrived as refugees. As all the attackers named are/were young unmarried Islamic males, that demographic will need to be monitored for potentially dangerous activities. The best strategy to use against those who use asymmetric tactics is to approach them in the same way via monitoring, infiltration and even selling them "weapons," so as to induce them to show their determination to commit terrorist acts. French citizens who have no such motivations and intentions will, ideally, be unaffected by these changes. Also, court review ex post facto, as in the US, will be needed.
My stand up out of my chair moment: France never followed up on the Turkish lead. Followed by the use of a Syrian passport to pass as a "migrant".
Keep cracking down and crush this evil before it gets out of control. Unfortunately we are closer to that point than we'd have liked to imagine.
Keep cracking down and crush this evil before it gets out of control. Unfortunately we are closer to that point than we'd have liked to imagine.
In no way should France go along with a "Patriot Act". It is the beginning of an absolute police state!
If only we could realize that the freedom to make one's own choices is what is under attack by the main interpretations of Islam. We need engage in no long analysis of radical vs moderate, only focus on the common element to all violent ideologies: their absolute and enforceable truths.
The vast majority of Muslims honor this freedom and would never harm others in the name of their prophet. But when young men and women, many fully integrated into the West and not marginalized take up the cause of terror, the answer must lie in the nature of what they read.
All major religions have had and have their violent proponents, yet in all cases this stems from the idea that the truths they represent are so pure that they can be forced on all and sundry by any means. Same for Hitler, Pol Pot, and many others. Lost on them is the fact that no one can represent a perfect and eternal truth.
The constant denial of this freedom in almost all Muslim majority nation states leads foremost to the deaths of innocent Muslims in a war for purity of doctrine, but extends to the whole of humanity. It provides a covering narrative that allows for all the dehumanizing actions, and is part of the fabric of legal systems in those countries.
We needn't ask Muslims to abandon their faith; we need to ask them to respect the freedom on conscience, as immigrants here in the West, and as policy in their home countries. Until then, the narrative of death will gallop unimpeded across the face of the globe.
The vast majority of Muslims honor this freedom and would never harm others in the name of their prophet. But when young men and women, many fully integrated into the West and not marginalized take up the cause of terror, the answer must lie in the nature of what they read.
All major religions have had and have their violent proponents, yet in all cases this stems from the idea that the truths they represent are so pure that they can be forced on all and sundry by any means. Same for Hitler, Pol Pot, and many others. Lost on them is the fact that no one can represent a perfect and eternal truth.
The constant denial of this freedom in almost all Muslim majority nation states leads foremost to the deaths of innocent Muslims in a war for purity of doctrine, but extends to the whole of humanity. It provides a covering narrative that allows for all the dehumanizing actions, and is part of the fabric of legal systems in those countries.
We needn't ask Muslims to abandon their faith; we need to ask them to respect the freedom on conscience, as immigrants here in the West, and as policy in their home countries. Until then, the narrative of death will gallop unimpeded across the face of the globe.
3
Sir, they cannot "respect our freedom on conscience" Enlightenment values because it is antithetical to their holy book and faith. It's one or the other, they cannot coexist.
Regulating the borders is was and has always been vital. These politicians should stop their games and start doing what is required to safeguard European citizens. There is no tool that should be termed taboo based on some weird fetish with not having barriers,fences,walls on ones borders. If they had any self awareness Tsipras,Merkel,Hollande,Juncker,Renzi all these guys who have orchestrated and facilitated the open borders policies towards migrants should step down and resign.
1
Where is the Muslim Ghandi and why isn't he renouncing ISIS and leading a parade of peace through the streets of Paris right now?
They created, funded to get rid of Assad and know the snake has bitten them. They have fooled their own people and on a pretext of eradicating ISIS, get rid of Assad? They really want to create more powerful terrorist group than ISIS? Haven't they not learnt their own lesson yet?
Americans can see how they being brain washed and fooled by the media by watching coverage of the BBC versus CNN. American public need to wake-up.
Americans can see how they being brain washed and fooled by the media by watching coverage of the BBC versus CNN. American public need to wake-up.
1
Once again Obama presents an insipid argument for forcing states to accept refugees. He claims that we are morally bound to these refugees; but in fact the US Constitution and the oath of office he swore allow for no such purpose. Above all the oath demands he adhere to the safety of US citizens and that he fulfills his duties in accordance with the constitution.
This president - any president - has no constitutionally ordered moral authority; and one could easily affix dozens of actions Obama has taken which "morally" are offensive to millions of Americans. The Founders knew allowing for disputed impositions passed on the moral judgements of a president were dangerous - akin to king like authority sanctioned by "divine right - and so specifically prohibited such authority.
Obama may believe he has the right by his definition of morality to impose his will on Americans; he doesn't - thank the constitution.
This president - any president - has no constitutionally ordered moral authority; and one could easily affix dozens of actions Obama has taken which "morally" are offensive to millions of Americans. The Founders knew allowing for disputed impositions passed on the moral judgements of a president were dangerous - akin to king like authority sanctioned by "divine right - and so specifically prohibited such authority.
Obama may believe he has the right by his definition of morality to impose his will on Americans; he doesn't - thank the constitution.
It would be so much easier to accept and live side by side with Muslim communities if they denounced, in large numbers, these types of actions.
I would like to hear how an ISIS fighter, upon returning home and plotting his hateful deed, was turned in by the Muslim community in which he lives. The fact that information coming from Muslim communities is rare and isolated is not comforting.
I believe in immigration and in tolerance but I believe this is something beyond the ability of western democracies to absorb. When people are willing to kill in suicidal acts then the teeth of law enforcement is ineffective. The only thing law enforcement can do is try to prevent deeds like this happening. It cannot punish when the killers are dead. It cannot shame when the wider community from which the murderers come silently endorse these deeds.
I want to hear the Muslim community sing "La Marseilles". I want them to shout, "Vive La France."
That would be comforting.
I would like to hear how an ISIS fighter, upon returning home and plotting his hateful deed, was turned in by the Muslim community in which he lives. The fact that information coming from Muslim communities is rare and isolated is not comforting.
I believe in immigration and in tolerance but I believe this is something beyond the ability of western democracies to absorb. When people are willing to kill in suicidal acts then the teeth of law enforcement is ineffective. The only thing law enforcement can do is try to prevent deeds like this happening. It cannot punish when the killers are dead. It cannot shame when the wider community from which the murderers come silently endorse these deeds.
I want to hear the Muslim community sing "La Marseilles". I want them to shout, "Vive La France."
That would be comforting.
3
To the President of France, Monsieur Hollande, and with due respect, I wish to commend you for your call to arms to take action against this great evil. As an American growing-up in Paris, I was caught up in the student riots in 1968 and the nuns at boarding-school sent us home to our families.
The father of a friend was to take me away to stay with his daughter, and loved ones, to safe haven outside of Paris, where she and I, all of us wondered, what was going to happen next. Years later he came with his wife to New York for a visit, and what a happy reunion it was. To see them, to thank them for their generosity of heart, their spirit and good sense.
As I write, there is a simple gold band on my finger, it belonged to my French grandmother, whose husband was killed at Verdun when she married at 16. I am thinking of my friends in Paris today, placing a call to a family friend who lived the war. She is at Versailles, now elderly and worried.
Please extend a warm welcome to my President, Mr. Obama, for both of you to work in harmony. He is the finest American leader I have seen and joining him in saying that fair stands the wind for France. We will prevail.
The father of a friend was to take me away to stay with his daughter, and loved ones, to safe haven outside of Paris, where she and I, all of us wondered, what was going to happen next. Years later he came with his wife to New York for a visit, and what a happy reunion it was. To see them, to thank them for their generosity of heart, their spirit and good sense.
As I write, there is a simple gold band on my finger, it belonged to my French grandmother, whose husband was killed at Verdun when she married at 16. I am thinking of my friends in Paris today, placing a call to a family friend who lived the war. She is at Versailles, now elderly and worried.
Please extend a warm welcome to my President, Mr. Obama, for both of you to work in harmony. He is the finest American leader I have seen and joining him in saying that fair stands the wind for France. We will prevail.
The dastardly attacks on the innocent Parisians who had gone to watch a concert and a football match underscores the importance that France needs to toughen its lax policy of welcoming immigrants with enhanced stringent checks at its borders. The Charlie Hebdo episode should have served as a wake up call for the French Intelligence, alas that lesson went abegging.Further the guardians of Islam( The imams and Maulvis of Mosques and Madrassas should after this episode redefine the contours of Jihad, Preach human values during their Friday sermons and get one fact straight that the world cannot be proselytized into an Islamic Republic.The backlash that innocent peace loving Muslims will face as a result of mindless acts that a few have perpetrated would only result in the social ostracization of the entire community and discrimination at all levels in schools colleges to finding employment. Will such abominable acts lead the fringe elements of the French society (Immigrants and Muslims from neighbouring countries get accepted into the social mainstream that they desperately seek.
Arvinder Singh Walia- India Kolkata
Arvinder Singh Walia- India Kolkata
This war rhetoric is pathetic, false, deliberately deceptive, and is exactly what ISIS wanted and wants. The ISIS thugs are not soldiers, one terrorist massacre of peaceful civilians is not a war, the West and Islamic barbarians are not two symmetric sides of one conflict.
France needs a new President, one who follows the wisdom of Jacques Chirac more than the folly of Donald Rumsfeld.
If M. Hollande must remain in office, a disgrace to his wounded country, using as role models the American chickenhawks whose bungled misadventures helped create ISIS to begin with, then let him at least pay heed to the words of George W. Bush: "You are either with us, or with the terrorists."
President Hollande: With this lame, deceitful and recklessly counterproductive war rhetoric you are serving the interests of the terrorists.
France needs a new President, one who follows the wisdom of Jacques Chirac more than the folly of Donald Rumsfeld.
If M. Hollande must remain in office, a disgrace to his wounded country, using as role models the American chickenhawks whose bungled misadventures helped create ISIS to begin with, then let him at least pay heed to the words of George W. Bush: "You are either with us, or with the terrorists."
President Hollande: With this lame, deceitful and recklessly counterproductive war rhetoric you are serving the interests of the terrorists.
You should ease upon your own rhetoric. You think ISIS are not soldiers? They number in the thousands and hold significant parts of Syria and Iraq from where they organize these barbaric attacks. They possess sophisticated weapons and have lucrative funding sources. I don't think Hollande is doing enough. The appropriate response is that the French army and Nato allies should sweep into their territory and eradicate them. And according to your theory, this is what ISIS wants - a confrontation with a large army? Bush's war did not create ISIS - but it hastened its rise by removing Saddam Hussein who kept a lid on these underlying hatreds for as long as he was in power.
Yes, of course the proper response to murder is more murder. Bomb Syria! Kill!!
Dear President Obama. No more war.
thank you
thank you
We need to behead Isis by agressive military action- taking their capital, command and control centers, training centers, and weapons depots. This will not end all terrorism but it will dispel the notion that ISIS is a "State", and it will make it clear that ISIS will never will achieve statehood, nor command any territory. It will adversely affect their ability to recruit.
It will be costly but less costly than leaving these centers of control in place.
It will be costly but less costly than leaving these centers of control in place.
1
I have to say that in these times of unbearable sorrow from the mass murder of innocents, I am at least relieved to read the pages of the thoughtful and insightful comments from the readers of this newspaper. These comments show an understanding of the plight of Hollande and the French in dealing with this tragedy, as well as an understanding of the dangers of over reacting through targeting innocents and over-amping the powers of the police state. Fellow readers, I applaud the civilization and humanity still alive within you. These thoughts, these sentiments is what will keep hope alive.
3
One has to wonder why Western governments put the burdens of dealing with terrorism on their citizens rather than on the sponsors of the terrorism. Restricting the rights of citizens in the name of combating terrorism is giving into the terrorists and it is a betrayal of our values. This is what the sponsors of terrorism want, and make no mistake about it, the restrictions being asked of citizens require giving up something of great value, namely fundamental rights. More important, once these rights are restricted, it is very difficult to get them back. Once citizens no longer remember the freedoms they once had and the restrictions become a way of life, the former freedoms are gone forever. We have seen too much of that already, and it seems more will be coming, because the sponsors of terrorism know it works. They know they will have the impact they want because of the way Western governments respond.
When it comes to fighting terrorism, we cannot be politically correct. We have to fight fire with fire. We have to deal with terrorists the way they would deal with us. Otherwise, we will ultimately give all our rights to the government so that government can protect us from increasingly emboldened sponsors of terrorism.
When it comes to fighting terrorism, we cannot be politically correct. We have to fight fire with fire. We have to deal with terrorists the way they would deal with us. Otherwise, we will ultimately give all our rights to the government so that government can protect us from increasingly emboldened sponsors of terrorism.
1
Saudi Arabia. The answer is Saudi Arabia.
Oh? (Advances on ROPER) And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you-where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? (He leaves him) This country's planted thick with laws from coast to coast-man's laws, not God's-and if you cut them down-and you're just the man to do it-d'you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? (Quietly) Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake. ~ Robert Bolt, "A Man For All Seasons"
NYT, please change your headline - how can there be a call to arms when the French people are unarmed?
2
Barbarians with atavistic beliefs using new age technology for middle age ideas; they have to be eliminated as social psychopaths that they are and such by ALL means possible.
Ir remains unclear whether Abdelhamid Abaaoud is an emissary of the ISIS leadership or has acted on his own initiative. ISIS's goal is to win territory in the Middle East. The fear of terrorism has always been related principally to Westerners returning from volunteer service on behalf of ISIS, not acts of the ISIS leadership. Whether the leadership of ISIS has ordered and masterminded this attack is unknown. Attacking Raqqa is a generalized attack against the armed forces of ISIS. If the government and the armed forces of ISIS did not sponsor Mr. Abaaoud, the attack on Raqqa was unwarranted. Terrorist acts by veterans of the ISIS army without leadership ties are not provably acts of the ISIS government, and unless it is proven that they are, a military response against the ISIS army is not warranted.
I wonder what Mr. Hollande means by the following statement.
"Terrorism will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy it."
In what sense does he use the word "Terrorism"?
If we were to take his statement literally, the following textual substitution would also make sense.
"$TACTIC will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy $TACTIC."
Really? I think Mr. Hollande needs to sit down a while and drink some water, or something. He needs to get his thoughts together before going off half-cocked.
"Terrorism will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy it."
In what sense does he use the word "Terrorism"?
If we were to take his statement literally, the following textual substitution would also make sense.
"$TACTIC will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy $TACTIC."
Really? I think Mr. Hollande needs to sit down a while and drink some water, or something. He needs to get his thoughts together before going off half-cocked.
I'm a democrat and hold progressive views on rights of the individual, and my reaction to the Paris mass murders was one of sadness at the waste of it all, the senseless meaningless depravity and barbarism that achieves nothing and only serves to anger all of us.
I keep hearing about the impossible task of monitoring all the returnees who have gone off to Syria and have returned (and continue to return) to their home countries - a figure of 5,000 or so is what I heard for France. Many Western countries including the US has this problem. I was wondering why not simply arrest anyone who has gone to Syria to fight for ISIS and returned? It seems to me that they are in effect fighting against their home countries by doing that, and that would constitute treason. So when they return, shouldn't they be arrested en masse, and tried in a military tribunal or whatever venue is chosen, and if the penalty is the death penalty so be it, or at the least life in prison, or a very long prison sentence. The effort to monitor all these people strikes me as an impossible task, a waste of time, and exceedingly accommodative. Why not arrest them all and give them their due process of law. If they went as volunteers for doctors without borders or something like that, that is one thing, but if they went to fight in a war for a group that beheads our citizens, attacks our allies and attacks us, threatens to attack us, then that is the definition of treason I would have thought.
I keep hearing about the impossible task of monitoring all the returnees who have gone off to Syria and have returned (and continue to return) to their home countries - a figure of 5,000 or so is what I heard for France. Many Western countries including the US has this problem. I was wondering why not simply arrest anyone who has gone to Syria to fight for ISIS and returned? It seems to me that they are in effect fighting against their home countries by doing that, and that would constitute treason. So when they return, shouldn't they be arrested en masse, and tried in a military tribunal or whatever venue is chosen, and if the penalty is the death penalty so be it, or at the least life in prison, or a very long prison sentence. The effort to monitor all these people strikes me as an impossible task, a waste of time, and exceedingly accommodative. Why not arrest them all and give them their due process of law. If they went as volunteers for doctors without borders or something like that, that is one thing, but if they went to fight in a war for a group that beheads our citizens, attacks our allies and attacks us, threatens to attack us, then that is the definition of treason I would have thought.
2
Easten Europe knows very well how Muslim mind operates after all they were 500 years under Islamic rule, that's why Orban did what he did, closd the border.Problem with the West is that they think they can talk Muslim out of radicalization which is naïve at best. West fails to understand that you can't be Muslim and secular, some may act as secularists but when times come they will choose Islam in a heart beat even though born and raised in western society. If we continue to be PC I'm afraid we will see more of this , LePen may sound like radical but at least she identifies the root cause. There's a one communist saying that goes like this: "better prevent it than cure it"
3
Related, if not exactly on this matter --
At this moment there is an update at BBC reporting that Russian forensic analysts have found traces of explosive in the debris of the passenger plane which disintegrated in mid-air over the Sinai. No details yet, it's a "keep refreshing the page" story at this moment, but Putin is said to be vowing to retaliate. I hope he skins them alive. I am sure the NYT will have the story shortly.
At this moment there is an update at BBC reporting that Russian forensic analysts have found traces of explosive in the debris of the passenger plane which disintegrated in mid-air over the Sinai. No details yet, it's a "keep refreshing the page" story at this moment, but Putin is said to be vowing to retaliate. I hope he skins them alive. I am sure the NYT will have the story shortly.
The "War on Terror" is one that can never be won because it is not intended by any parties involved to be won. It is warfare intended to go on in perpetuity. It represents an endless cash flow for those industries whose survival is very much reliant upon a continuous state of war. It serves as a means to a desired end for those engaged in the art of asymmetric terrorist warfare from within groups like ISIL. There is nothing to be gained from any of the major players involved in finding an end.<br />Will anyone on this thread ever know a United States not at war at anytime in the remainder of their lifetimes? I seriously doubt it. Welcome to the new normal.
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Sorry, there is no sense of urgency, no strong wish to grant our allies - especially France - the help they need, not even a hint to a D-Day type of response being planned by the leaders of the free world...
This vicious cycle will only end (after a few decades) when the West stops propping up regimes and tearing down regimes in the Middle East, stops making all calculations exclusively around oil, and stops supporting the Israeli apartheid.
3
Same mistake U.S. made after 9/11. The 800 lb gorilla in the room is immigration control. Work on that first.
1
“France is in war”.
That is not a news it is chronic, because we are in war with Muslims since 1000 years, since the crusades times, when so many massacres were done.
I think that Mr Holland's declaration is an electoral call, to avoid that the Front National would win at the next regional election.
Mr Holland is not considering that all this comes from the 10 years ago “banlieu” revolt, concluded with a police repression and a further constant police oppression enduring also today.
The second and third Arab generations suffered more than the elders, because they studied to have a diploma, but no French company hired them, so they remained hanging around the banlieus, easy prey by IS propaganda and so becoming foreign fighters with a profound hate against France.
Mr Holland and his government should therefore work seriously on this problem, integrating the young French Arabs, eliminating the state of police siege in the banlieu and giving them the due work according their studies, might be issuing an even opportunity law to impose a proportional public and private hiring between white French and French Arabs.
Only integration is the solution to eliminate the IS attraction on the young oppressed French Arabs, because French is one of the countries that don't respect the human rights, also if it was the country which wrote “Le droit de l'homme”, at this point only an old paper.
That is not a news it is chronic, because we are in war with Muslims since 1000 years, since the crusades times, when so many massacres were done.
I think that Mr Holland's declaration is an electoral call, to avoid that the Front National would win at the next regional election.
Mr Holland is not considering that all this comes from the 10 years ago “banlieu” revolt, concluded with a police repression and a further constant police oppression enduring also today.
The second and third Arab generations suffered more than the elders, because they studied to have a diploma, but no French company hired them, so they remained hanging around the banlieus, easy prey by IS propaganda and so becoming foreign fighters with a profound hate against France.
Mr Holland and his government should therefore work seriously on this problem, integrating the young French Arabs, eliminating the state of police siege in the banlieu and giving them the due work according their studies, might be issuing an even opportunity law to impose a proportional public and private hiring between white French and French Arabs.
Only integration is the solution to eliminate the IS attraction on the young oppressed French Arabs, because French is one of the countries that don't respect the human rights, also if it was the country which wrote “Le droit de l'homme”, at this point only an old paper.
1
Correction ... Since the 700's when Moslem forces invaded Spain to Northern France and were defeated by Charles Martel near Tours. Spain was occupied by successive Moslem forces until the 1400's
I think the immediate past is far more important than 1300 years ago...
What happened in Paris was horrible, yes, but I'd like to point out that (and just playing devil's advocate here) ISIS didn't attack France until after France had been bombing them for several months. Now that fact has been conveniently brushed aside amid the calls for revenge. It's not unlike how in the aftermath of September 11th, few Americans were pointing out that the stationing of US troops on Saudi Arabian soil might have contributed to what had just happened. It's sad that these people died, but we in the West are rarely entirely innocent, to a large extent we bring these tragedies on ourselves.
I guess you now know why the secular leaders in the middle east (iraqi, syria, libya, egypt) were so brutal toward the extremists in their countries. good thing the west worked together to get rid of them.
1
Hollande, I always suspected, is a dumb Socialist, who is an embarrassment to Socialists around the world. The man needs to drink some cognac or brandy and chill out. This amending the Constitutions for 129 deaths is pretty serious stuff. The Russian jetliner lost over 220 people. Russia is not amending its Constitution. US lost over 3000 people on 9/11. Nobody is calling for amending the Constitutions so the State can have more snooping, spying and surveillance power up your wazoo. Spain lost over 190 people in a terrorist bombing in 2004, nobody is called for amending the Constitution in Spain (which has a history of fascism). We need to amend the Constitution so idiots, mentally unwell people, mentally unstable people and criminals do not have access to guns easily. But that is way different than amending the Constitution so Snowden's prediction of a Kafkaesque Western becomes a reality. The new question we have to ask is, "Are men like Hollande really French who believe in liberte, egalite and fraternite or, are they themselves plants from somewhere else...slowly eroding the system from within?" Maybe we need an investigation on the investigators. The story gets interesting by the minute folks.
Careful, France. Act in haste, repent at leisure. If these changes to your Constitution wouldn't be given a second look once the hot blood has cooled, then they're probably not worth making in the first place.
This is what I think.
The peoples of France are in shock because of the recent horrific events, but they will not succumb to neo-liberal/neocon/fascist impulses.
France will not succumb to the goading to hate Islamic peoples and to yearn for more death and destruction of other peoples.
France represents an intelligencia of the world and is not the US public who can be prodded to hate and fear other cultures by simple talking points and bumper sticker slogans.
France is not a country of haters. It does not cower in the corner of 'kill or be killed'; it is smarter than that.
France realizes that western powers, especially the USA, has killed millions of people in the middle east to futher it's imperialist, greedy goals. It should have never succumbed to the impluses, prodded by the USA, to join in the killing of thousands of innocents in Syria to gain some residual benefit from the USA's racist, imperialistic goals.
France realizes that a better world is possible, but it requires being its own county and not a stooge of anyone else. It's supposed leaders have done some horrifying things in recent years, like carpet bombing non-ISIS controlled parts of Syria, but it not has the chance to get some things right if the discussion is not smothered by fear and loathing. France can become a leader for peace and justice by envisioning peace and justice, and not the idiocy of vengeance against the many innocents.
Or maybe not. We'll see.
The peoples of France are in shock because of the recent horrific events, but they will not succumb to neo-liberal/neocon/fascist impulses.
France will not succumb to the goading to hate Islamic peoples and to yearn for more death and destruction of other peoples.
France represents an intelligencia of the world and is not the US public who can be prodded to hate and fear other cultures by simple talking points and bumper sticker slogans.
France is not a country of haters. It does not cower in the corner of 'kill or be killed'; it is smarter than that.
France realizes that western powers, especially the USA, has killed millions of people in the middle east to futher it's imperialist, greedy goals. It should have never succumbed to the impluses, prodded by the USA, to join in the killing of thousands of innocents in Syria to gain some residual benefit from the USA's racist, imperialistic goals.
France realizes that a better world is possible, but it requires being its own county and not a stooge of anyone else. It's supposed leaders have done some horrifying things in recent years, like carpet bombing non-ISIS controlled parts of Syria, but it not has the chance to get some things right if the discussion is not smothered by fear and loathing. France can become a leader for peace and justice by envisioning peace and justice, and not the idiocy of vengeance against the many innocents.
Or maybe not. We'll see.
The Republicans ridiculously want President Obama to invade Syria because some cowards killed people in Paris. This is typical, scattershot GOP lunacy. However, the same Republicans don't have the will or the backbone to do anything about America's own domestic terrorism, the seemingly endless mass gun shootings that are more dangerous to the citizens of the United States than the crazed mass murderers known as ISIS.
Of course, the GOP wants to license drones, but not guns, which is even more Alice down the rabbit hole thinking.
And, let's tell the truth about the seed that germinated ISIS, which is the fragmenting of Iraq by Bush II, Cheney, and the blithering Neo-cons. As Colin Powell warned before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a nation that was not a threat to and did not attack the U.S., "if you break it, you bought it."
Well, America under Bush II truly did break it. The price is being paid in Syria and in eastern Iraq, as well as in Paris, Beirut, and aboard that Russian jetliner.
Once the Republican right-wing extremists acknowledge why ISIS exists, they will then be in a better position to advise and consent about the actions of President Obama during this period in our history.
We should not invade Syria. That would be madness. We need to keep the pressure on ISIS from the air. Its recent violent acts are a dying ideology lashing-out and gasping its last breath.
Some in the GOP are acting like Spiro Agnew's "nervous Nellies." They need to find their bravery.
Of course, the GOP wants to license drones, but not guns, which is even more Alice down the rabbit hole thinking.
And, let's tell the truth about the seed that germinated ISIS, which is the fragmenting of Iraq by Bush II, Cheney, and the blithering Neo-cons. As Colin Powell warned before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, a nation that was not a threat to and did not attack the U.S., "if you break it, you bought it."
Well, America under Bush II truly did break it. The price is being paid in Syria and in eastern Iraq, as well as in Paris, Beirut, and aboard that Russian jetliner.
Once the Republican right-wing extremists acknowledge why ISIS exists, they will then be in a better position to advise and consent about the actions of President Obama during this period in our history.
We should not invade Syria. That would be madness. We need to keep the pressure on ISIS from the air. Its recent violent acts are a dying ideology lashing-out and gasping its last breath.
Some in the GOP are acting like Spiro Agnew's "nervous Nellies." They need to find their bravery.
2
the hard questions for F Hollande are going to be " why didn't he take some of these initiatives at the beginning of the year, after the terrorist attack on Charlie Hebdo?", why didn't he take them when it became clear, a few months ago, as he now says, that some big terrorist attacks were being prepared? why didn't he change at that time his dual priority foreign policy: push out bashar, fight isis, into isis is the absolute priority? Also the fact that he uses France's state of war to do away with commitment to Europe to reduce deficit is in my view undignified.
First of all, I am really sorry for the victims of Paris attacks. It should never had happened. But it did. Now, the question is why. I think this is the result of USA/EU govt. actions since late 80s up till today.
When USA and their NATO allies raided my country from March until June 1999, I wrote in one of my comments to the news then “what goes around comes around”. I remember that a Turkish guy replied “well, it came around”. Well, he was wrong. The same governments continued their policy of bombarding sovereign states (Iraq, Libya, Syria), and what has been going around for years, finally came around, and it will keep coming, until those who think that they are more civilized (the West), change their policy to those who they consider less civilized. In short, stop plundering nations, kill the people, burn their houses “introduce democracy” “promote western values” etc. By use of sheer force. Stop bullying the world. Otherwise, if western governments continue with the foreign policy implemented so far, ordinary men and women living in western countries will continue to face breeding of thousands partisans, guerrillas and terrorists who will stop at nothing to retaliate.
So, for a change, keep you righteous anger down, and try to find another solution that will avoid fighting fire with fire. It seems universally stupid course of action and it reminds me to a definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
When USA and their NATO allies raided my country from March until June 1999, I wrote in one of my comments to the news then “what goes around comes around”. I remember that a Turkish guy replied “well, it came around”. Well, he was wrong. The same governments continued their policy of bombarding sovereign states (Iraq, Libya, Syria), and what has been going around for years, finally came around, and it will keep coming, until those who think that they are more civilized (the West), change their policy to those who they consider less civilized. In short, stop plundering nations, kill the people, burn their houses “introduce democracy” “promote western values” etc. By use of sheer force. Stop bullying the world. Otherwise, if western governments continue with the foreign policy implemented so far, ordinary men and women living in western countries will continue to face breeding of thousands partisans, guerrillas and terrorists who will stop at nothing to retaliate.
So, for a change, keep you righteous anger down, and try to find another solution that will avoid fighting fire with fire. It seems universally stupid course of action and it reminds me to a definition of insanity: "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results".
1
I feel so much safer being in the United States, where we can protect ourselves and have the right to bear arms. We have a healthy death rate by firearms of about 3.5 per 100,000, or about 30 deaths per day, and it takes many firearm wielding hands to accomplish those numbers.
France has only a measly .2 per 100,000. They are normally lucky to be able to hear about one French citizen dying by gunshot in a given day. They are so wimpy that they can only kill themselves and each other at 1/17th of the rate we can do.
Perhaps with a few more school shootings and a robust rate of drive by killings and domestic murders they will be more able to take large numbers of violent deaths in stride like we do.
France has only a measly .2 per 100,000. They are normally lucky to be able to hear about one French citizen dying by gunshot in a given day. They are so wimpy that they can only kill themselves and each other at 1/17th of the rate we can do.
Perhaps with a few more school shootings and a robust rate of drive by killings and domestic murders they will be more able to take large numbers of violent deaths in stride like we do.
1
Two things stuck me as strange and suspiciously convenient from this story. They found the suicide bombers passport nearby? For one, I don't understand why anyone would carry Id with them on a suicide mission? What's the use? You have bombs strapped to you... Let's say ok, the guy really felt he needed it for some unforeseen stop on the way to the site but...the passport survives the explosion of his body?? I haven't seen a photo of it, and I have never seen the site of a suicide binning up close, but it seems strange. Anyone out there have first hand experience with the kind of destruction from that kind of bombing? (I'm sorry if you do)
1
Frankly, Hollande's knee jerk, cliche reaction suits a leader who had a 20% approval rating weeks before the attacks. Drop 20 bombs and amend the constitution. Inspiring.
1
One of the massive blunders after 9-11, 2001, was to believe that the terrorists were everywhere, could do anything and might attack again at any moment. Thus, we saw machine gun carry troops at airports, including Baltimore and Boston, among others. That these fears were vastly overblown reactions to the attacks quickly became clear, but no one admitted an error.
Each "success" of terrorists tends to make the next effort more difficult, more complex and less likely. That is because most of those who would be terrorists don't live among us, they have to infiltrate, coordinate and then execute their plans. This is very difficult and 9 times out of 10, or even more frequently, they get caught.
The single most effective method of preventing airline hijackings, for example, was to harden the cockpit doors. Everything else, including the prison like searches at airports, was far secondary. Fixing the doors, which cost about $50,000 per aircraft, combined with the knowledge that any successful hijacking would mean certain death, prepared the pilots with knowledge that, in itself, would likely render any in-air hijacking useless for terroristic purposes. Afterward, they knew they would need to counteract a hijacking by putting the aircraft into a steep dive or other actions to stop people moving in the aisles. Plus, never open the door to a hijacker.
The point is this: over reactions cause us to miss the goal and aim at things that don't actually help.
Each "success" of terrorists tends to make the next effort more difficult, more complex and less likely. That is because most of those who would be terrorists don't live among us, they have to infiltrate, coordinate and then execute their plans. This is very difficult and 9 times out of 10, or even more frequently, they get caught.
The single most effective method of preventing airline hijackings, for example, was to harden the cockpit doors. Everything else, including the prison like searches at airports, was far secondary. Fixing the doors, which cost about $50,000 per aircraft, combined with the knowledge that any successful hijacking would mean certain death, prepared the pilots with knowledge that, in itself, would likely render any in-air hijacking useless for terroristic purposes. Afterward, they knew they would need to counteract a hijacking by putting the aircraft into a steep dive or other actions to stop people moving in the aisles. Plus, never open the door to a hijacker.
The point is this: over reactions cause us to miss the goal and aim at things that don't actually help.
2
All politics may be local, but many commentators here are mistaken to confuse the "war" language of the French president with the war actions of America. France is NOT going to invade Iraq or Syria. What Mr. Hollande is saying is that France (but also Europe) has a huge internal problem with some of its citizens. He opposes branding Muslims as terrorists, but he wants the French State to take off the gloves when it discovers people actually involved in terrorist plots. We all know that there is no quick or easy solution to the terrorism problem, which is global, not just local. But if we put our heads together, we will prevail against terrorism!
3
Commenters who parrot Fox News talking points about President Obama's failure to do whatever here: where was your outrage, where were your critical words, when Dubya slept at the wheel to cause 9/11 and then, instead of quickly sending forces into Afghanistan, fabricated a phony war upon the Iraqi people... which set the stage for ISIS to come into existence?
3
Now that the President of France has declared war on ISIS, it should be time for France's President to send at least one division of troops to Iraq so they can, with intelligence from the USA, engage the enemy!.
By all means keep up the bombing, even "carpet bombing", but in the end it will have to be FRENCH troops who will defeat ISIS!.
By all means keep up the bombing, even "carpet bombing", but in the end it will have to be FRENCH troops who will defeat ISIS!.
1
So many of you have so many excuses for terrorists; that is part of the problem.
The U.S., Britain, Russia, France and Germany need to join together and crush Isis. That would entail with massive degradation of infrastructure of Isis controlled territory in Syria and Iraq. At the same time massive bombing in all Isis controlled territory. Then, a ground invasion, two pronged, where one prong would go after Isis controlled territory in Syria, and the other prong would go after Isis at the border of Syria with Iraq.
Isis in Libya should also be dealt with.
At the same time, in Europe, all immigrants from Syria should be barred and intense pressure should be put on Belgium to stop the Isis plotters there, or France should move on them themselves.
For those who wince in horror from what I say, it is either them(Isis and their friends) or us, because I guarantee everyone that these horrors, such as in France, will never stop until an alliance stops them. So, people, stop wringing your hands(like the U.S. President is, and call for action.
The U.S., Britain, Russia, France and Germany need to join together and crush Isis. That would entail with massive degradation of infrastructure of Isis controlled territory in Syria and Iraq. At the same time massive bombing in all Isis controlled territory. Then, a ground invasion, two pronged, where one prong would go after Isis controlled territory in Syria, and the other prong would go after Isis at the border of Syria with Iraq.
Isis in Libya should also be dealt with.
At the same time, in Europe, all immigrants from Syria should be barred and intense pressure should be put on Belgium to stop the Isis plotters there, or France should move on them themselves.
For those who wince in horror from what I say, it is either them(Isis and their friends) or us, because I guarantee everyone that these horrors, such as in France, will never stop until an alliance stops them. So, people, stop wringing your hands(like the U.S. President is, and call for action.
2
Sounds similar to Bushes response, and we all know that led to Americans willingly handing over their civil liberties; there liberties will never be regained. the terrorist are rejoicing! The yearn for the entire world to live in a violent, enraged police state.
It would be better for democracy to close off all immigration before relinquishing civil liberties.
It would be better for democracy to close off all immigration before relinquishing civil liberties.
DOESN'T ANYONE GET IT!! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT ISIS WANTS! If Hollande goes ahead with this type of plan, the terrorists win. Period. He has already played into their hands by seeking "revenge" and bombing Raqqa. Doing so simply perpetuates - and validates - ISIS' belief that the West is at war with Islam. HOW CAN EVERYONE BE SO TONE DEAF!!!
3
Do you have a better solution?
not blowing up people would be a start
but we know its all a ploy for the French govt to legitimise its military action in the Middle East
sacrifice around 200 people to gain public sympathy - introduce more draconian laws which have NEVER been proven to help fight terrorism - present a strong public image as a strong leader...
but we know its all a ploy for the French govt to legitimise its military action in the Middle East
sacrifice around 200 people to gain public sympathy - introduce more draconian laws which have NEVER been proven to help fight terrorism - present a strong public image as a strong leader...
So 8 stateless terrorists attack France because it is an open, free society, and the French response is: we will curtail freedom and throw our much-cherished liberties under the bus?
Instead of declaring war, perhaps President Hollande should say what he really means: the terrorists won.
Instead, the French should focus on better intelligence gathering and intelligence sharing, rehashing a comprehensive migrant policy that allows time for security checks, and perhaps another look at the Schengen Treaty and border security.
Instead of declaring war, perhaps President Hollande should say what he really means: the terrorists won.
Instead, the French should focus on better intelligence gathering and intelligence sharing, rehashing a comprehensive migrant policy that allows time for security checks, and perhaps another look at the Schengen Treaty and border security.
1
Stripping a person of citizenship is a serious matter - having the ability to do so divides citizens into first class and second class citizens. In this case, they are proposing stripping convicted terrorists of citizenship only if they hold a second passport. This is reasonable. But why not do away with dual citizenship altogether? When you become, say, a French citizen, you renounce your original citizenship. If at some point you get another citizenship/passport, your French citizenship is revoked at that point with no ability to get it back. And make obtaining citizenship dependent upon integration into the new culture, and reasonable severing of ties to the original place of citizenship.
Those citizens convicted of terrorism should be getting life sentences anyway.
Those citizens convicted of terrorism should be getting life sentences anyway.
1
We defeated the combined military machines of Germany and Japan in WWII, yet we cannot defeat ISIS? Something is seriously defective in our leadership.
Perhaps the disgust of the Bush Doctrine was not it's premise, but how incredibly incompetently it was carried out.
We can hope, France does not turn it's wheel to attack a totally unrealted country.
That was the horrible folly of the Bush era. We invaded Iraq. Who had zero to do with the attacks on us. To this day I do not think there has been a full reckoning of how criminally misdirected was American might. Some of us remember.
Maybe France will turn its sights on the more responsible targets: Daesh; and who directly funds them.
We can hope, France does not turn it's wheel to attack a totally unrealted country.
That was the horrible folly of the Bush era. We invaded Iraq. Who had zero to do with the attacks on us. To this day I do not think there has been a full reckoning of how criminally misdirected was American might. Some of us remember.
Maybe France will turn its sights on the more responsible targets: Daesh; and who directly funds them.
3
Like Saudi Arabia and Turkey? We can only hope.
I wish I knew to what Middle East leadership some commentators keep referring. Apart from the rather acidic and unhelpful leadership of Israel what you are looking at is the mess created by oil crazy nations starting in 1908. Golly, that would be Britain, France and then not much later the U.S.A. There are no leaders in the region who have anywhere near the influence to make anything happen; that is until the house of Saud finally wakes up to not just the twenty first century but the twentieth.
Hollande's constitutional proposals are DOA and are unlikely to be implemented. Copying the rhetoric of George Bush II shows the man has lost his mind. He has managed to unite the country - against him.
12
And you base your statement on what? GW did essentially the same thing, but with lies and deceit and most Americans were just fine with that.
Seeking state control over citizens' lives or converting a liberal democratic France into a police state can hardly be a sensible response to the Islamic State monstrosity; for if terrorism could never be justified on any ground, so is perhaps true of the state terrorism.
13
We'll know France is serious about it being a war when they send troops.
7
Is that supposed to be a joke? Send troops where exactly? Which nation attacked France? The attackers were French citizens. Should they just pull a nation's name out of a hat and run with that? Because that worked so well for the United States.
Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Mali?
I agree, but France will send the "Legion etranger".
So there will be French foreign fighters againt IS foreign fighters.
So there will be French foreign fighters againt IS foreign fighters.
The idea that Hollande would use this tragedy as an excuse to strip away basic constitutional protections, such as the need for a warrant before conducting a raid, from French citizens, is truly frightening. Surely, if such steps are taken, this only plays into the terrorists hands by letting our fear convince us to strip away our basic freedoms. I sincerely hope that sober voices in France learn from the rampant erosion of civil liberties in the US after 9/11 and avoid walking our path.
23
Concepts like yours are the reason we are where we are. Freedom has its limitations.
I quit sending money to the ACLU, and cancelled my subscription to The Nation, shortly after 9/11. My reason was they were both too pro-Muslim.
Please spare us the hyperbolic shock over what would be a temporary means to prevent future attacks. These liberties and protections are part of a social and governmental contract designed to protect people who are united by shared values, goals and desires for their countries and the way they wish to live out their lives. We need to be honest with ourselves that these terrorists, citizens or no, do not participate in that contract or share in its values. Nothing they prize would be "stripped away" of them if the French take appropriate means to augment their ability to improve intelligence and investigate leads that could prevent this from happening again. I'm tired of people who immediately invoke nonsense arguments that their own personal freedoms will be infringed or we'll slide down a slippery civil liberties slope if we finally take the means that are necessary to eradicate these kinds of home-grown terrorist plans. Given what the French have just been through, I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that their authorities would exercise good judgment in focusing on the people and leads they need to. Tell me, what else is going to yield results at this point?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/paris-attacks-raise-questions...
"Hundreds of Islamists from Germany, along with thousands from other European countries are currently in IS-held regions of Syria and Iraq of their own free will. Because they possess citizenships of European countries, they can return whenever they like. French officials said on Monday that at least three of the suspected attackers had spent time in Syria since the end of 2013 and subsequently returned to France."
No wonder there are talks about canceling the citizenship of these potential terrorists before they return to attack EU.
"Hundreds of Islamists from Germany, along with thousands from other European countries are currently in IS-held regions of Syria and Iraq of their own free will. Because they possess citizenships of European countries, they can return whenever they like. French officials said on Monday that at least three of the suspected attackers had spent time in Syria since the end of 2013 and subsequently returned to France."
No wonder there are talks about canceling the citizenship of these potential terrorists before they return to attack EU.
22
Passport-free travel among Schengen countries needs to be nixed, and immediately. Every person crossing each border should have their passport logged (and, if a visitor, their fingerprints too).
This isn't a challenge to European Unity (with the intel thus pooled, in fact, it will be quite the opposite). You can still have your "right to roam". It's simply that, when you roam, or in this instance, flee, we will have some idea where you are.
This isn't a challenge to European Unity (with the intel thus pooled, in fact, it will be quite the opposite). You can still have your "right to roam". It's simply that, when you roam, or in this instance, flee, we will have some idea where you are.
17
Who is "we"? Are you European or simply taking it upon yourself to decide what should be done on their continent?
I wish someone were this enthusiastic about tracking gun ownership inside the U.S. like this. Perhaps, then, guns sold in loosey-goosey states like Georgia, Indiana and Virginia wouldn't make their way into laws that are trying to enforce reasonable laws regarding firearms ownership and end up being used in crimes. Maybe checkpoints for all states? Checkpoints that verify identification and search for firearms. No more free travel inside the United States either.
I wish someone were this enthusiastic about tracking gun ownership inside the U.S. like this. Perhaps, then, guns sold in loosey-goosey states like Georgia, Indiana and Virginia wouldn't make their way into laws that are trying to enforce reasonable laws regarding firearms ownership and end up being used in crimes. Maybe checkpoints for all states? Checkpoints that verify identification and search for firearms. No more free travel inside the United States either.
“Let’s assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into Syria. What happens when there’s a terrorist attack generated from Yemen? Do we then send troops into there? Or Libya, perhaps?”
The answer to that, Mr. President, is yes. We form a NATO force with a contribution from each nation, and we go to any place that terrorists have formed a base, and we destroy it and them.
Now of course the reason this hasn't been done so far is that the Republican Congress has so weakened the American nation through spending cuts that we no longer have the strength to do it.
But we are at war, and we have to make war against Salafism until it is eliminated from the face of the earth. And the Republican political agenda, and Barack Obama's squeamishness will both have to take a back seat to the security of the nation and the world.
The answer to that, Mr. President, is yes. We form a NATO force with a contribution from each nation, and we go to any place that terrorists have formed a base, and we destroy it and them.
Now of course the reason this hasn't been done so far is that the Republican Congress has so weakened the American nation through spending cuts that we no longer have the strength to do it.
But we are at war, and we have to make war against Salafism until it is eliminated from the face of the earth. And the Republican political agenda, and Barack Obama's squeamishness will both have to take a back seat to the security of the nation and the world.
9
President Obama is the only adult in the room. Have we learned nothing from the Iraq war? Has everyone forgotten that "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself"?
The Obama lack of leadership and willingness to look closely
at the possibility of a failed course of action in the middle
east is disheartening for myself and many others who voted
and supported him. He borders on truly being arrogant and dismissive
of questions posed to him at a time when people need full
answers and not impatient responses. His handling of questions
from the press about his policies was a wasted moment. He could
have educated us in order to win our support of his continued
non action. Instead he appeared egotistical once again.
It seems a truth that in order to have civil rights and a truly Democratic nation we must have a strong military and and strong leadership
to protect these rights. This appear lacking with Obama.
The other danger I see right now is that all of this concern is neglecting another serious issue and that is the fact that the 1600 pages of the the text
of TPP has finally been released after being negotiated secretly by giant corporations working with Obama. It is indeed truly a disaster for
American jobs in the future and for wages in our country. No one is
talking about this at a time when it is being urged by Obama to be passed by
congress. PLEASE write and object to this trade agreement now.
at the possibility of a failed course of action in the middle
east is disheartening for myself and many others who voted
and supported him. He borders on truly being arrogant and dismissive
of questions posed to him at a time when people need full
answers and not impatient responses. His handling of questions
from the press about his policies was a wasted moment. He could
have educated us in order to win our support of his continued
non action. Instead he appeared egotistical once again.
It seems a truth that in order to have civil rights and a truly Democratic nation we must have a strong military and and strong leadership
to protect these rights. This appear lacking with Obama.
The other danger I see right now is that all of this concern is neglecting another serious issue and that is the fact that the 1600 pages of the the text
of TPP has finally been released after being negotiated secretly by giant corporations working with Obama. It is indeed truly a disaster for
American jobs in the future and for wages in our country. No one is
talking about this at a time when it is being urged by Obama to be passed by
congress. PLEASE write and object to this trade agreement now.
8
Obama governs with his dictates and abstractions with king-like "divine right." The constitution? - how silly to think it of any importance to Obama.
Consider the ease with which this vainglorious man plays Russian roulette with our lives: His inadequate but carefully measured post-Paris statements, his post-Paris release of more Gitmo terrorists, his post-Paris determination to import tens of thousands of impossible-to-vet Syrian refugees which will NECESSARILY include a certain percentage of terrorists. This from the man whose only charge as president is to protect and defend this country.
Obama has disclosed his game plan: More of the same.
After the televised beheadings by ISIS, Obama was forced by public outrage to act.
He famously puffed: “We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL” and then proceeded, (rather expensively), to do neither. (I always thought the "ultimately" was a dead giveaway of his true intentions.)
Obama will do the same with Paris.
One caveat: A despot can do a lot of damage in 15 months and a deluded, increasingly irrelevant one blinded by his own imagined brilliance will.
Obama has disclosed his game plan: More of the same.
After the televised beheadings by ISIS, Obama was forced by public outrage to act.
He famously puffed: “We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL” and then proceeded, (rather expensively), to do neither. (I always thought the "ultimately" was a dead giveaway of his true intentions.)
Obama will do the same with Paris.
One caveat: A despot can do a lot of damage in 15 months and a deluded, increasingly irrelevant one blinded by his own imagined brilliance will.
I don't recall a call to arms when Metrojet Flight 9268 was downed. Not much sympathy expressed either. Do we really hold the Russians that much in contempt?
14
Afraid so.
I'm not understand your comment or question. Though I disagree with Hollande's statement and impulsive, kneejerk comment, he is the President of France and he is making the comment as relates to his own country having been the target of a terrorist attack. Who was supposed to do that for Russia? The President of another country? NATO, to which Russia is not a member? The UN? I believe it was Putin's duty and privilege to make such a call or to not make it. It may well prove this his unwillingness to make such a rash statement is far more responsible than what Hollande just did.
Hold Russians in contempt? Now why would anyone in the West or allied with the West hold Putin's Russia in contempt? Maybe for Russia reoccupying the Crimea? Perhaps for Putin's active support of Assad? How about the Russian military's way less than helpful actions in Syria? Yea! Kinda guess the West & allies pretty much hold Putin's Russia in contempt...wary contempt.
How can you merely amend a Constitution and expect any modifications thereto to be effective against an enemy who lives in the shadows? I'm at a loss as to how Mr. Hollande can be steadfast in his determination to annihilate the Islamic State when it is constantly evolving: a silent enemy who is determined to overthrow constitutions. Perhaps he should focus on mourning and concentrate on educating himself thoroughly prior to speaking. . .
6
I wonder how many of the horrific attacks, killings and other atrocities might have been avoided if much of the anti-Muslim hateful commentary by the GOP in America and, perhaps their counterparts overseas, had not been so divisive. These attacks were not carried out in the name of Islam, they were done in order to steal oil and engage in sex-trafficking. The conservative religious segment is really a charade.
But guess what, such insane diatribes have merely enhanced the recruitment of volunteers to travel from the West, to join in the "Happening". Many of them are not conservative Muslims, or even Muslim at all. But, if you're out there in Paris, London, New York, Ottawa, Sydney, and living the good life, you might not necessarily be happy. So, if you lack a good education, job skills, financial resources or lack self-respect, why not travel to Syria and join what many believe is a "Jihadist Woodstock". That is, until they find out what really awaits them there.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
But guess what, such insane diatribes have merely enhanced the recruitment of volunteers to travel from the West, to join in the "Happening". Many of them are not conservative Muslims, or even Muslim at all. But, if you're out there in Paris, London, New York, Ottawa, Sydney, and living the good life, you might not necessarily be happy. So, if you lack a good education, job skills, financial resources or lack self-respect, why not travel to Syria and join what many believe is a "Jihadist Woodstock". That is, until they find out what really awaits them there.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
4
Leaving aside the Paris attacks, why does no one ask the obvious questions: Where does ISIS get the money and materiel to wage simultaneous campaigns against Syria+Russia in the west and Iran+Iraq+Peshmerga in the east? They have kept up a solid fight for well over 18 months now. They do not seem to lack new fighters, new weapons, or new ammunition. Do they have raw materials and working factories to manufacture the implements of war? Or are they getting them from other states? If they are importing weapons, how are they paying for them, and who is selling or giving the weapons away? And where do they get gas, tires, and spare parts? If you look at a map, there are only two supply routes open to them: one through Turkey just north and west of Aleppo, and one through the desert from Saudi Arabia and/or Jordan. So the men, money, and materiel have to transit these nations, all of which are close US allies. So, before we all volunteer to give up privacy and freedom to enslave ourselves to our government, how about we first give some serious thought to pressuring our allies to choke off these supply lines? And if our government can't or won't manage that, then we should ask whose side they are on. After all, who benefits from increased surveillance and curtailed liberties?
31
" Do they have raw materials and working factories to manufacture the implements of war? Or are they getting them from other states? If they are importing weapons, how are they paying for them, and who is selling or giving the weapons away? And where do they get gas, tires, and spare parts?..."
Excellent questions you asked!
Excellent questions you asked!
Ditto. Preach brother preach!
Sad to see the words of Mr. Hollande, sadder still to imagine Paris going the way of NYC after 911. Bush grandstanded on our rubble and eventually the soul of the city was laid to waste. It's not that the terrorists won - but we lost by giving in to fear and letting others take over the narrative that had made NYC so singular. Paris - be strong and stay free!
16
Enough of 9/11. This is a different ideology and monstrous young men trying to be "big'guys".
If there was every a time the US should go to war it is now. No boots on the ground, millions of bombs in the air.
If there was every a time the US should go to war it is now. No boots on the ground, millions of bombs in the air.
The lack of imagination on the part of the Western Powers in dealing with the situation in the Middle East is staggering.
No matter what happens, we seem to be stuck in the mindset of decapitating their leadership. We seem to have picked up this mentality from the Israelis, who have been using this approach totally unsuccessfully since 1947.
We are incapable of understanding that our foes do not live in neat societies with well defined hierarchies. They live in societies that are controlled by intermeshing factors of Clan, Tribe and Culture - all things that we annihilated in our society a long time ago, and replaced with something we call "democracy". Our enemies are clueless about democracy - can't we stop offering it to them? As we can see, they are not impressed by "democracy".
How about offering them simple, arm's length trade? We stay out of their business, and they stay out of ours. We don't send them advisors, troops or anything like that. They bring to the dock things we need, like oil - and we bring to the dock things they need, like wheat. That's it, the whole deal. When we behave that way, they will lose all interest in blowing up random people in our cities.
They can have all the chaos and murder they want in their own land; all they have to do is follow one simple rule: just bring the oil to the dock, and don't get on the boat.
No matter what happens, we seem to be stuck in the mindset of decapitating their leadership. We seem to have picked up this mentality from the Israelis, who have been using this approach totally unsuccessfully since 1947.
We are incapable of understanding that our foes do not live in neat societies with well defined hierarchies. They live in societies that are controlled by intermeshing factors of Clan, Tribe and Culture - all things that we annihilated in our society a long time ago, and replaced with something we call "democracy". Our enemies are clueless about democracy - can't we stop offering it to them? As we can see, they are not impressed by "democracy".
How about offering them simple, arm's length trade? We stay out of their business, and they stay out of ours. We don't send them advisors, troops or anything like that. They bring to the dock things we need, like oil - and we bring to the dock things they need, like wheat. That's it, the whole deal. When we behave that way, they will lose all interest in blowing up random people in our cities.
They can have all the chaos and murder they want in their own land; all they have to do is follow one simple rule: just bring the oil to the dock, and don't get on the boat.
9
This problem started long before the Iraq war and even 9/11. Remember when the Trade Center was bombed in 1993 or the attack against our marines in 1983. Radical Islamics are the problem. The faces and names (ISIS, Taliban, Hezbollah and PLO to name a few) may change, but the message remains the same.
If we support Israel, we are seen as the enemy of Islam.
This is an ideological war. There will probably always be Islamic extremists willing to die for "their version" of the Koran. The west needs to be ever vigilant and combat this by having tighter restrictions on foreign immigration/visitation combined with greater policing.
Look at how Israel protects itself. As our only true friend in the ME, we need to support and learn from them. This is the reality for the west also. We can't count on the ME to police their own. I wish there was a way to reason with these radical groups, but force seems to be the only way to keep them on the defensive. As bad as this attack in France is, it seems like they only have access to crude weapons. Imagine what terror they could accomplish with high technology weapons.
Praying and playing John Lennon songs may make us feel better, but that doesn't address the harsh reality we face. I wish it wasn't so.
If we support Israel, we are seen as the enemy of Islam.
This is an ideological war. There will probably always be Islamic extremists willing to die for "their version" of the Koran. The west needs to be ever vigilant and combat this by having tighter restrictions on foreign immigration/visitation combined with greater policing.
Look at how Israel protects itself. As our only true friend in the ME, we need to support and learn from them. This is the reality for the west also. We can't count on the ME to police their own. I wish there was a way to reason with these radical groups, but force seems to be the only way to keep them on the defensive. As bad as this attack in France is, it seems like they only have access to crude weapons. Imagine what terror they could accomplish with high technology weapons.
Praying and playing John Lennon songs may make us feel better, but that doesn't address the harsh reality we face. I wish it wasn't so.
12
This problem began in the 1930s when Standard Oil of California discovered vast oil resources off the coast of Saudi Arabia. It was then that the U.S. entered into a partnership with the Saudis that would see cheap oil flowing to the U.S. in exchange for the U.S. military protecting Saudi Arabia. Since that time, we've expanded our militaristic activities in that region at an ever-increasing pace. The Middle East is full of U.S. military bases. We meddle in their politics and we've overthrown their heads of state and put into place those we approve of because they serve our purpose.
It's time to leave the Middle East to those who rightfully inhabit the region. The oil and minerals in that region belong to the nations there and their citizens. Get out. Let them be. Quit meddling. Stop giving them reasons to hate us.
It's time to leave the Middle East to those who rightfully inhabit the region. The oil and minerals in that region belong to the nations there and their citizens. Get out. Let them be. Quit meddling. Stop giving them reasons to hate us.
I really can't see how the brother of one of the murderers of Friday's attacks thinks he's helping the situation by his cool-headed performance for the media, in which he showed no emotion whatsoever for the victims and seemed to want much more to impress on everyone the fact that his mother was upset. I'm not without sympathy for his family, but to claim that his brother was a completely normal person is more than a little hard to believe, under the circumstances.
9
Could it possibly occur to you that he's in shock, that he's grieving and that he's afraid that he and his mother will bear the brunt of the suspicion and hatred simply because they are Muslim and related to two of the attackers involved?
People react in different ways when under great amounts of stress and grief. Try to have more sympathy or at least patience and resist the urge to judge unfairly and far too soon.
People react in different ways when under great amounts of stress and grief. Try to have more sympathy or at least patience and resist the urge to judge unfairly and far too soon.
This needs to be looked and fought as a different kind of conflict. You're fighting a terrorist group, not a country. The whack-a-mole tactics won't work.....
11
"Mr. Hollande called for quick action by Parliament on new legislation that would give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest. He said he would seek court advice on broader surveillance powers."
Sound familiar? When when we begin to start shredding our constitution?
Sound familiar? When when we begin to start shredding our constitution?
8
France is in the in-between status of not at peace and no foreign army marching down the boulevards yet. Nothing is shredded.
Amazingly, even though he has a phone and a pen, this actual national leader is NOT planning to do everything by executive fiat. I wish we could trade Presidents with the French.
Or Australia. Or Britain. Or Holland. Or Ireland, really.
Amazingly, even though he has a phone and a pen, this actual national leader is NOT planning to do everything by executive fiat. I wish we could trade Presidents with the French.
Or Australia. Or Britain. Or Holland. Or Ireland, really.
5
And I wish you exhibited a little compassion and common sense.
3
But how will he proceed if every proposal he makes is thwarted by his political opposition? Will he simply throw up his hands and accept the status quo?
I think the French military response is very appropriate and that all the rhetoric of anger around the world is important because much as we worry about fear ruling us, I sincerely doubt that many members of ISIS aren't also afraid now.
They've got away with a lot so far and with nobody really taking them seriously enough. That's come to an end. And we take it for granted that everybody is a lunatic fanatic, longing to offer themselves as a suicide bomber, but I wonder how many of them joined because they were threatened or intimidated. I suspect many were and that as the international response grows stronger and more defined there will be increasing numbers of ISIS defectors.
Shades of the attack on New York. Except that the French leader and his advisers aren't G.W. Bush and his cronies. And around the world people are more aware of the need to avoid phobia of Islam, to separate ordinary Muslims from fundamentalists. And more Muslims are speaking out against fundamentalism. And that is definitely progress amidst this awful tragedy.
They've got away with a lot so far and with nobody really taking them seriously enough. That's come to an end. And we take it for granted that everybody is a lunatic fanatic, longing to offer themselves as a suicide bomber, but I wonder how many of them joined because they were threatened or intimidated. I suspect many were and that as the international response grows stronger and more defined there will be increasing numbers of ISIS defectors.
Shades of the attack on New York. Except that the French leader and his advisers aren't G.W. Bush and his cronies. And around the world people are more aware of the need to avoid phobia of Islam, to separate ordinary Muslims from fundamentalists. And more Muslims are speaking out against fundamentalism. And that is definitely progress amidst this awful tragedy.
6
I find it interesting (and disturbing) that every time there is a high profile attack targeting civilians politicians rush to demand a curtailment of constitutional, privacy, and human rights. This to me exemplifies the very meaning of defeat when it comes to defending the values of democracy and freedom.
Let's face it, it is now and will always be impossible to prevent all harm, all senseless killings, all attacks on civilians, infrastructure, and individuals. Well, at least that's the case if you live in a democracy that respects people's rights.
In theory, we could probably get to a point when with the use of technology and total-information-awareness surveillance ALMOST all crimes by non-state actors could be prevented, but such a world would be more nightmarish that anything George Orwell could have imagined.
For in that situation what you'll have is an unholy alliance made up of business cartels and politicians having total control over the population. As we've seen time and time and time again in history, once ruling elites become hat powerful they tend to do unspeakable crimes against the people.
When should we the people acquiesce to giving up our rights? Never, under any circumstances.
Let's face it, it is now and will always be impossible to prevent all harm, all senseless killings, all attacks on civilians, infrastructure, and individuals. Well, at least that's the case if you live in a democracy that respects people's rights.
In theory, we could probably get to a point when with the use of technology and total-information-awareness surveillance ALMOST all crimes by non-state actors could be prevented, but such a world would be more nightmarish that anything George Orwell could have imagined.
For in that situation what you'll have is an unholy alliance made up of business cartels and politicians having total control over the population. As we've seen time and time and time again in history, once ruling elites become hat powerful they tend to do unspeakable crimes against the people.
When should we the people acquiesce to giving up our rights? Never, under any circumstances.
13
Limiting some freedoms worked under President George W. Bush. There were numerous attempt to mount attacks after 9/11 and they were quashed. Harry Reid didn't even get thet black eye until after ''W'' left office!
2
Millions of attacks were thwarted.
Crippling trade and financial sanctions on Middle East countries that allow terrorist cells to operate in their borders, oil embargoes, expulsion of diplomats and embassy shutdowns, travel freezes, cancellation of any foreign aid, no matter how "friendly" they have been. If the EU, USA and Russia joined in doing this, it would be no time before ISIS and any other group was rounded up and imprisoned or beheaded themselves. This, instead of sending America's soldiers to their death or continuing to erode the freedom and privacy of our citizens.
11
Profits & control by our international oligarchs, banisters, ya know, the 153 families that own our country, its politicians, courts, & us serts, would never permit it. Non starter.
4
The Saudi's have agreed to have all of their oil traded in the US dollar which has propped up our current see despite it being backed by… Nothing. We pressure them, they could switch to have their oil traded in euros, rubles, Or Yuan. Which would be devastating to the house of cards that our banking system is. It's also exactly what Saddam set about doing right before we decided to invade Iraq because of... Terrorism. Check out "the gathering storm" on the web for more clear insights into the mechanisms at play behind current and past geopolitical events.
France for years pushed Israel for the Two State Solution for Western Palestine (Eastern Palestine is called Jordan, for now). It seems that this model will have to be implemented in France, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, Austria, etc:
The countries will be split into Muslim and non-Muslim enclaves with details of coexistence depending on local colors. Whether it will be done de facto or de jure really does not matter.
Big portions of Paris, Strasbourg, Brussels, etc are not controlled by central authorities for many years already and the EU establishment pretends that this is just fine.
So why not to face the truth and move via a familiar path: from capitulation to collaboration ?
The countries will be split into Muslim and non-Muslim enclaves with details of coexistence depending on local colors. Whether it will be done de facto or de jure really does not matter.
Big portions of Paris, Strasbourg, Brussels, etc are not controlled by central authorities for many years already and the EU establishment pretends that this is just fine.
So why not to face the truth and move via a familiar path: from capitulation to collaboration ?
3
It's time for NATO to end all ties with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Monarchies, and treat them as the enemy.
Saudi Arabia specifically is the enemy of Western Civilization. It is a dictatorial, anti-woman, religious monarchy. It is the epitome of anti-democracy.
The Arabian peninsula is on a one-way death march. Once petroleum is no longer a consumable resource, millions of people will face starvation, civil war. Religion more and more will serve as the ideological fuel burned to sort out who lives and who dies. As the Saudi nation implodes, thousands of people will act out apocalyptic fantasies abroad (ISIS would have been impossible without Saudi money and power).
It is time now to declare Saudi Arabia the enemy, and save the future. NATO should use its power and influence to contain and depose the House of Saud.
Saudi Arabia specifically is the enemy of Western Civilization. It is a dictatorial, anti-woman, religious monarchy. It is the epitome of anti-democracy.
The Arabian peninsula is on a one-way death march. Once petroleum is no longer a consumable resource, millions of people will face starvation, civil war. Religion more and more will serve as the ideological fuel burned to sort out who lives and who dies. As the Saudi nation implodes, thousands of people will act out apocalyptic fantasies abroad (ISIS would have been impossible without Saudi money and power).
It is time now to declare Saudi Arabia the enemy, and save the future. NATO should use its power and influence to contain and depose the House of Saud.
18
I'm absolutely with you. It's high time people stopped controlling the whole world with what they dug out of the ground, with no intelligence, creativity or talent whatsoever, and without contributing anything. Bring it on.
It ain't a coincidence that one more apparent overreaction by a head of state might further erode civil liberties.
2
To the President and people of France:
Your fears, your anxieties, your anger, your sense of being violated, those are all perfectly natural responses that we New Yorkers know all too well. But if I may be so presumptuous as to offer just one thought for your consideration: allow your fears to recede a bit, your anxieties to ease, your sense of violation to begin to heal, before you start down the path of passing sweeping legislation or constitutional changes. As many Americans have learned through bitter experience, that path is fraught with dangerous consequences unconsidered and unforeseen, and you may find it very difficult to retrace your steps back to the last fork along the way.
Your fears, your anxieties, your anger, your sense of being violated, those are all perfectly natural responses that we New Yorkers know all too well. But if I may be so presumptuous as to offer just one thought for your consideration: allow your fears to recede a bit, your anxieties to ease, your sense of violation to begin to heal, before you start down the path of passing sweeping legislation or constitutional changes. As many Americans have learned through bitter experience, that path is fraught with dangerous consequences unconsidered and unforeseen, and you may find it very difficult to retrace your steps back to the last fork along the way.
12
I am glad you are not a leader of a country that has been attacked 20 year old monstrous kids.
If the West avoided certain military tactics in WWII because of fear of failure, mistakes, being politically correct, or public backlash, history might be different today. It's easy to be sitting at home and thinking about all of the idealistically correct things France should do, but Hollande is running the reality of the situation and he's taking the steps he sees necessary. He's the leader, we're not.
I wish all of the leaders of all civilized countries would unite and get on a stage together declaring that they are going to work together to defeat ISIS. Until that happens, ISIS will hang in there and most likely continue to grow despite the efforts of any one nation.
Quite frankly, I think the only reason the West hasn't taken a more bold approach in uniting immediately (militarily speaking) after the Paris attacks is because of the disaster of the Iraq war. Everyone has cold feet, and the world doesn't trust the west in the same way it did pre-Iraq war. Even the west doesn't trust itself in the same way. The Paris attacks were an act of war. France is at war. War isn't pretty. I hope all nations against terrorism can unite. If not, what will it take to do so? A worse attack? How bad does the attack need to be before everyone says, "Enough"?
I wish all of the leaders of all civilized countries would unite and get on a stage together declaring that they are going to work together to defeat ISIS. Until that happens, ISIS will hang in there and most likely continue to grow despite the efforts of any one nation.
Quite frankly, I think the only reason the West hasn't taken a more bold approach in uniting immediately (militarily speaking) after the Paris attacks is because of the disaster of the Iraq war. Everyone has cold feet, and the world doesn't trust the west in the same way it did pre-Iraq war. Even the west doesn't trust itself in the same way. The Paris attacks were an act of war. France is at war. War isn't pretty. I hope all nations against terrorism can unite. If not, what will it take to do so? A worse attack? How bad does the attack need to be before everyone says, "Enough"?
4
Warrantless raids, house arrest, more surveillance, these all sound like steps that restrict freedom which is exactly the kind of state that ISIS wants to obtain.
The first reaction to terrorism should never involve changing your constitution. That's a little like drunk dialing your ex. Just don't do it.
For a dose of proportion, while the events in France are tragic with 129 deaths in a single night, that same night nearly 100 people in the US died from a gun.
The most ISIS has ever been able to do and are likely able to do in the future is kill unarmed civilians. That's not saying much about their capabilities. This too shall pass.
The first reaction to terrorism should never involve changing your constitution. That's a little like drunk dialing your ex. Just don't do it.
For a dose of proportion, while the events in France are tragic with 129 deaths in a single night, that same night nearly 100 people in the US died from a gun.
The most ISIS has ever been able to do and are likely able to do in the future is kill unarmed civilians. That's not saying much about their capabilities. This too shall pass.
7
“Terrorism will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy it,” Hollande said.
But apparently, terrorism will succeed in altering the republic's constitution, and in making it less like a republic, and more like a police state. The immediate aftermath of a national emergency is not the time for rewriting a constitution.
And I've never believed that we should avoid the political implications of tragedies, whether the topic is terrorism, guns, or war. I disagreed with the central point of Frank Bruni's popular column against "politicizing" the events in Paris for that reason, even though I strongly disagree with the individual hatemongers he was criticizing. Of course what happened was political, and we should have a healthy debate about it. The problem is with the substance of people's proposed solutions - it's not that they're making political arguments about what happened.
And having said all that, this is really very simple. The immediate aftermath of a national emergency is not the time for rewriting a constitution.
But apparently, terrorism will succeed in altering the republic's constitution, and in making it less like a republic, and more like a police state. The immediate aftermath of a national emergency is not the time for rewriting a constitution.
And I've never believed that we should avoid the political implications of tragedies, whether the topic is terrorism, guns, or war. I disagreed with the central point of Frank Bruni's popular column against "politicizing" the events in Paris for that reason, even though I strongly disagree with the individual hatemongers he was criticizing. Of course what happened was political, and we should have a healthy debate about it. The problem is with the substance of people's proposed solutions - it's not that they're making political arguments about what happened.
And having said all that, this is really very simple. The immediate aftermath of a national emergency is not the time for rewriting a constitution.
9
TIME OUT!! When emotion are running so high is NOT the time to amend the constitution, in France, The United States or anywhere.
8
For all of the xenophobes who say we shouldn't let in Syrian refugees because of terrorism, I have two questions for you:
1) Do you worry about the crazy people with guns who are already here? If so, you're at least consistent. But we have had far more deaths from gun violence than France has had from terrorism.
2) Was Aylan Kurdi a terrorist?
"Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." -MLK
1) Do you worry about the crazy people with guns who are already here? If so, you're at least consistent. But we have had far more deaths from gun violence than France has had from terrorism.
2) Was Aylan Kurdi a terrorist?
"Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." -MLK
6
Love drive out hate? Surely you are delirious.
7
William, MLK was the single most decisive factor in eliminating legal segregation in the US. We should all be so delirious.
I doubt Blue was implying we should use love on the actual murderers. But he is right that this is the only effective strategy for stopping the recruiting of new ones.
I doubt Blue was implying we should use love on the actual murderers. But he is right that this is the only effective strategy for stopping the recruiting of new ones.
When a country curtails its civil liberties in response to a terrorist attack, the terrorists win. It is that simple. And it's amazing that so many countries adopt this "default" solution. America did. And now it's France's turn. I don't have the answers. But I do know the answer is not less freedom.
4
President Obama doesn't want to send troops. To overcome that, we the people will have to convince him. Without public pressure, the next possibility is special operations. Send the contractors and special ops who are the cream of the crop. Send them. Then we can see.
But if President Obama says again and again that the U.S. won't do this alone, we should probably come up with a strategy to get the allies - including the Saudis - involved. Perhaps France can help with that.
But if President Obama says again and again that the U.S. won't do this alone, we should probably come up with a strategy to get the allies - including the Saudis - involved. Perhaps France can help with that.
1
If Obama won't defend the U.S. or its allies he should be impeached.
3
The Saudis to help? Don't you think they have done enough? After all, where did the majority of the 9-11 terrorists come from? Saudi Arabia. And Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia, hmmmmm. Coincidence? I wouldn't be surprised if Saudi Arabia is financing ISIS.
6
The West is at war and the sooner we recognize it the better. This war has been going on for two hundred years. It's the great civil war of modernity: between religion and secularism; superstition and science; mental slavery and freedom. Radical Islam is simply the latest iteration of the enemy in this war. Previously there were the Christian fundamentalists, the conservative nationalists of various stripes, the Nazis and the Communists. These are all gone but the victories were paid for in blood and tears. Da'esh is not as formidable an enemy (yet) as the Third Reich or Stalin's empire but it'll be if this cancer is allowed to grow. Cut it out now! And sure, some innocents will suffer and some will be killed but this is the price of freedom. My grandfather died at the age of 26 fighting the Nazis. I cannot feel sorry for the able-bodied refugees who don't have the guts to fight for their homes and knock on the doors of Europe instead.
7
So what are you advocating the refugees do, exactly? Pick up bricks and throw them at the tanks?
If they keep it up, the jihadist fanatics will see how formidable an enemy Westerners can be. When cooperation and toleration fail, we fight.
And as for a reputed love of death---well, we call their bluff.
And as for a reputed love of death---well, we call their bluff.
11
More power to you and the French people Mr. Hollande. Let us find out who is buying ISIS oil and funding its terrorism? Why is the U.S. asleep to the financial vulnerability of ISIS as collects millions of dollars a day from selling oil from the territories it attacks and holds? We were quick to punish Iran and Russia financially by piling sanctions on sanctions and tying up their banking systems. But we are allowing ISIS to openly exploit its capture of Syrian oil fields by engaging in the selling of the oil for millions of dollars each day and using the funds for buying weaponry and carrying on its jihadist murders around the world. In addition, we allow our "allies" in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, and Egypt to pull the rug out from under our woefully inadequate efforts at defeating ISIS by letting these countries supply ISIS with weaponry and funds to vigorously fight us. Why have, and are, we failing to deprive ISIS of the monies it needs to carry on? Are the oil contracts and entanglements between the Middle East despots and our petroleum giants interfering with the actions we need to take to cut off ISIS financial operations? If so, Mr. Obama and his aides would do well to arouse themselves and take the corrective actions that are needed.
4
I feel for the everyday Muslims who have nothing to do with this attack, but will now face more hostility from all sides. Don't let terrorists win.
9
The attacks in Paris, Beruit and elsewhere were heartbreaking. Frankly they are all heartbreaking. Sending love, and hoping for peace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zDpX9luV_Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zDpX9luV_Y
2
The youth of Daesh are gangsters.
Some are irredeemably hardened sociopaths. Some are delinquents who moved from petty crime to assassination. Some are desperate poor who joined for money. Some are disaffected youth looking for purpose and adventure. Some are conscripts who would flee if they had a chance.
Together, united under a black banner, these losers and misfits and captives are labeled as IS. But many of them aren’t the least Islamic. And nothing they have created is a state.
We feed their pride when we declare “war” against them because we imply that they are powerful enough to be a state.
We feed their pride when we devote round-the-clock coverage to their brutality.
We feed their pride when we create security measures that hobble our daily lives and deprive us of liberty.
We please them when we deem each of their lives worth a $6000.00 bomb.
We please them when we promise the deliverance of a dramatic death to release them from a tedious existence.
We please them when we send our military youth for their target practice and our weapons for their looting.
They are not worthy of our time. They don't have the power of an earthquake or the force of a wildfire—and we do not stop our lives for those kinds of disasters. They are disasters of the human soul—and such disasters have been before and will be again—but we will go on and survive them. What is worthy is honoring those we have lost, helping their loves ones, and moving forward with life.
Some are irredeemably hardened sociopaths. Some are delinquents who moved from petty crime to assassination. Some are desperate poor who joined for money. Some are disaffected youth looking for purpose and adventure. Some are conscripts who would flee if they had a chance.
Together, united under a black banner, these losers and misfits and captives are labeled as IS. But many of them aren’t the least Islamic. And nothing they have created is a state.
We feed their pride when we declare “war” against them because we imply that they are powerful enough to be a state.
We feed their pride when we devote round-the-clock coverage to their brutality.
We feed their pride when we create security measures that hobble our daily lives and deprive us of liberty.
We please them when we deem each of their lives worth a $6000.00 bomb.
We please them when we promise the deliverance of a dramatic death to release them from a tedious existence.
We please them when we send our military youth for their target practice and our weapons for their looting.
They are not worthy of our time. They don't have the power of an earthquake or the force of a wildfire—and we do not stop our lives for those kinds of disasters. They are disasters of the human soul—and such disasters have been before and will be again—but we will go on and survive them. What is worthy is honoring those we have lost, helping their loves ones, and moving forward with life.
9
Patriot Act, the French way.
4
I'm sure that Mr. Hollande must have been misquoted when he said “Terrorism will not destroy the republic, because it is the republic that will destroy it,” but if his proposed constitutional changes are passed, it will become true: it will be the republic responsible for destroying the republic. Besides, to the extent implemented by the U.S., none of the changes proposed have really made it a better country. Terrorism has always existed and will continue to exist. Like the war on drugs, a war on terror will never end and will only drain resources from building a more successful and prosperous society.
5
Amend the constitution to give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest. Then the terrorists have won.
8
The rights of citizens in France, and many other places around the world, are not as strong as in the U.S. Our founders built a wall between the state and the individual, starting with the First Amendment to the Constitution. The most important idea here, enshrined through various principles in the Bill of Rights and documents related to our nation's founding, is the idea that the state is the subject of the people, we are not subjects of the state. Although the underlying ideals of our revolution were drawn from European political and social philosophers, France did not go as far as the United States did on individual liberties in the face of govt. encroachment. There is less to lose in that context.
After 9-11, 2001, a majority of our citizens who have been prepared to support almost anything "if it helps with our security", which allowed questionable programs and methods to be put in place.
After 9-11, 2001, a majority of our citizens who have been prepared to support almost anything "if it helps with our security", which allowed questionable programs and methods to be put in place.
1
Calling on the Parliament to raid homes without a search warrant, to detain people without court proceedings, to revoke citizenship, and to amend or suspend constitutional protections sounds like the actions of a fascist--a Pierre Laval or Pierre Poujade--rather than a democrat.
President Hollande is going down a dark path. He should remember that the Weimar Republic amended its constitution in the late twenties to allow the executive to suspend it in emergencies. A few years later, Adolf Hitler used that clause to suspend it indefinitely and seize total control of the state.
President Hollande is going down a dark path. He should remember that the Weimar Republic amended its constitution in the late twenties to allow the executive to suspend it in emergencies. A few years later, Adolf Hitler used that clause to suspend it indefinitely and seize total control of the state.
14
There is nothing in having to make very difficult judgments that cannot be reduced to a facile comparison to the Nazis. I recall that President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus and was roundly condemned at the time for being a despot. Yet, miraculously, we did not become a police state. Go figure.
12
I envy people who think we are not a police state.
4
Diogenes, get real. Idealism is the worst error in all of philosophy, but when applied sanctimoniously to life-or-death situations it is worse than sophomoric.
Folks, France has to do this. We also have to do more, much more. And I bet we will. And Russia too. And still others, too.
So really, shut it just a bit about liberal pacifists or idiot former presidents who lead us into the wrong war or how France is going to turn into a Fascist state and all that other hyperbole. France has to do this. They are going to do this. It's the right thing to do and we should increase our version of their resolve as well. So go ahead and type your little fingers off but one way or the other France is going to do this. And I know I'm not the one to say if they're right or wrong , , but again, I think they're right. So, carry on France.
So really, shut it just a bit about liberal pacifists or idiot former presidents who lead us into the wrong war or how France is going to turn into a Fascist state and all that other hyperbole. France has to do this. They are going to do this. It's the right thing to do and we should increase our version of their resolve as well. So go ahead and type your little fingers off but one way or the other France is going to do this. And I know I'm not the one to say if they're right or wrong , , but again, I think they're right. So, carry on France.
31
No, I will never stop complaining about the Iraq war, the single worst foreign policy decision in the history of the United States.
1
Bravo S from MC, and I agree with you, Bush was an inept idiot, hence my comment above. However, France is going to do this . . and the US, and Russia and many many other countries now. There, we have found ourselves.
Just make sure you work hard to help defeat the next idiot running for president.
Just make sure you work hard to help defeat the next idiot running for president.
1
I thought it's time somebody called out Mr. Xi, the president of China:
When are we going to hear from you about what the Chinese government may do to help with this global scourge that is surely also affecting your own country in the Northwest?
If you rather sit this conflict out--as you've the past few global upheavals--may I ask why you want China to be the next leader of the free world or at the least want to be respected as a global power?
When are we going to hear from you about what the Chinese government may do to help with this global scourge that is surely also affecting your own country in the Northwest?
If you rather sit this conflict out--as you've the past few global upheavals--may I ask why you want China to be the next leader of the free world or at the least want to be respected as a global power?
4
I thought about China, too. They have been spared a good deal and one wonders why. Is it strategic, on the terrorists part? Or just too much work for them?
1
Perhaps he is heeding all of the mistakes that we have resolutely refused to learn anything from.
5
Don't you get it - China is forcing America to do it's dirty work. That's the whole idea behind owning so much of US debt.
1
Perhaps this all out effort on the part of the French would finally prevent the expansion of ISIS/Daesh at least. Hopefully, gradually but surely this would also mark the beginning of the end of ISIS. If that happens it would be a great, if not the greatest gift to humanity from France.
French attempts of the past fell flat. It was a mistake to oust Qaddafi, creating chaos there, which helped to extend ISIS's influence in North Africa. Then, French folded too soon in 1940.
French attempts of the past fell flat. It was a mistake to oust Qaddafi, creating chaos there, which helped to extend ISIS's influence in North Africa. Then, French folded too soon in 1940.
2
finally some leadership from the president to deal with ISIS, I just never thought as an American is would be the president of France. All Americans should be completely embarrassed by the situation.
11
You think the French president leading, well maybe but I think Putin is leading. Obama remains a very articulate feckless dude.
Hollande is offering bold leadership and aggressive solutions to this global Islamic terrorist threat. If only our president could acknowledge the problem exists, we might be able to have a chance to fight it sensibly.
7
Control of the Middle East has always led to more trouble. We've tried to cut off the head of a Hydra and 9 others have appeared. We can no longer control what happens in our modern day world. Ask the survivors of a movie theater, or a church, or a school shooting. The Middle East is a quagmire of enemy alliances, murderers, and religious zealots. One day someone is your friend. The next day maybe not. The United States has found that out with the thousands of deaths and serious injuries to our men and women who have fought there. War is not the answer. Our world has changed and cooler heads must prevail.
4
War not the answer? What is?
5
It is not enough to chant "war is not the answer". First, answer to what? What's the question that is being considered? Second, what would you propose, that we go over there and make nice with ISIS? Invite them to do dinner so they can cut off our heads and show the video around the world?
What is the moderate response in a world where people in wheelchairs are targeted first for slaughter, as in Paris? What is the moderate response to people who celebrate their own deaths and believe they will be having sex with virgins moments after they die?
Unfortunately, war does often produce other wars, but on occasion, it also does produce periods of extended, hard won peace.
What is the moderate response in a world where people in wheelchairs are targeted first for slaughter, as in Paris? What is the moderate response to people who celebrate their own deaths and believe they will be having sex with virgins moments after they die?
Unfortunately, war does often produce other wars, but on occasion, it also does produce periods of extended, hard won peace.
1
Ironically, you can blame (half) of it on France. France and Britain drew up these borders after they defeated and decided to carve up the Ottoman empire.
Is this going to be Frances 9/11 with Bush and the Congress passing the Patriot Act and get all sorts of sweeping powers without any oversight. I find it hard to believe that he existing laws are weak to stop terrorist acts to happen!
3
If France is at war, it should mobilize,
not abrogate les droits de l'homme.
not abrogate les droits de l'homme.
3
Where are the cries of disproportional response, collective punishment and "cycle of violence"? Oh right, wrong country defending itself against religiously inspired terrorists. We may be at a tipping point at which the West must grudgingly acknowledge the obvious fight. The Jews fight against Islamic supremacism (specifically that Jews have no right to self-determination in their ancestral homeland because of the Muslim imperial conquest of the 7th century) is the same fight now forced upon the West (non-Muslims must submit). The inevitable fight will be that much harder because the West has spent decades rationalizing and in some instances justifying Palestinian terrorism. Re-read the infamous Goldstone Report on how armies are supposed to deal with terrorists who hide among civilians, then compare how Russia, France and other nations respond. The difference between ISIS and Palestinian terrorist groups (including those run by the PA itself) has always been a matter of degree, not of kind. It's past time to recognize this uncomfortable truth.
11
1500 years ago - Mohammed to 2IC:
"Listen, we're running out of fighters to attack the local villages here. We've got a whole lot more pillaging to do...but we've got no more money to pay people to enlist. We better start a religion - and quick!"
2IC: "What've you got in mind?"
Mohammed: "How about this: Come with us and fight, boys - if you die fighting, you go to paradise and you get...let's see...72 virgins, no questions asked. Not only that, we'll tell you what to eat, how to dress, how to act, and we'll even force your wives be nice to you! If you don't sign up, though, you'll have to pay a huge tax, or we'll cut your head off".
2IC: "Sounds a bit psycho, but it sure beats sitting around turning the other cheek. Do you really think anyone will go for it?"
Mohammed: "Maybe it'll fly for a few years - just until we can get some cash together and beef up the army."
1500 years later...they're still going for it. Who would have thought?
"Listen, we're running out of fighters to attack the local villages here. We've got a whole lot more pillaging to do...but we've got no more money to pay people to enlist. We better start a religion - and quick!"
2IC: "What've you got in mind?"
Mohammed: "How about this: Come with us and fight, boys - if you die fighting, you go to paradise and you get...let's see...72 virgins, no questions asked. Not only that, we'll tell you what to eat, how to dress, how to act, and we'll even force your wives be nice to you! If you don't sign up, though, you'll have to pay a huge tax, or we'll cut your head off".
2IC: "Sounds a bit psycho, but it sure beats sitting around turning the other cheek. Do you really think anyone will go for it?"
Mohammed: "Maybe it'll fly for a few years - just until we can get some cash together and beef up the army."
1500 years later...they're still going for it. Who would have thought?
11
Jimbo95: "1500 years ago - Mohammed to 2IC"
Quite entertaining! Now apply the same story retroactively to all the previous religions ... Christianity, Judaism, etc etc ... and you got it!
Quite entertaining! Now apply the same story retroactively to all the previous religions ... Christianity, Judaism, etc etc ... and you got it!
2
Only Islam requires its followers to convert, tax or kill all non-followers. And only Islam was created for war...
If EU countries want to address the issue of their citizens leaving to join Daesh and then returning to foment terrorist acts at home, it is time to consider enstating an exit visa policy with a strict time limit, and revoking the right of residence/citizenship of those who overstay and who have passport stamps from countries that border a recognized conflict area or training area. Such visas could be renewed by legitimate travellers at consulates in countries not bordering on conflict zones, but not in countries designated by the EU as conduits to conflict areas.
5
The war on terror is paradoxically a war on the rights of Man. The French, like others in the West, have been correcting "the other" for five hundred years. And thus, the Law of Cause and Effect has come back to its point of departure within the Sphere of our existence. Thus, in the Universe, One is not a number but a regulator!
We just don't get that the immutable Laws of Nature that we selectively apply to run our technology also apply to ourselves!
We just don't get that the immutable Laws of Nature that we selectively apply to run our technology also apply to ourselves!
THE PROBLEM is that people live in the moment or just recent history. to understand such situations IT IS IMPORTANT TO understand that both war in Iraq were induced by 10 Downing street, the US having followed a British international policy since after WW2...What is happening is the result of a NO NUANCE British stance in the middle east where the US, the child of the UK and its former colony, has been used as a big muscle like a small dad using his giant son. France, the mother of the US, always wanted an approach that took into account the differences between Arabs...but lost the game to the more British stance...NOW THE UK has BACK DOWN leaving Barack Obama to deal with it alone after having led Bush and 1 and Bush 2 to approve an Iraq war...France has come to the rescue of the US and is paying an inevitable price BECAUSE THAT PROBLEM IS OLD AND BRITISH INDUCED ACCORDING TO ALL SERIOUS HISTORIANS...EVEN IN THE MIDDLE EAST...Now there is absolutely no other way than to erase the problem to give a chance to the arab world to enjoy their lives as well as the non arabs. MR HOLLANDE IS NOT AN IMBECILE AT ALL...AND IT IS A BLESSING THAT HIS CALMNESS AND DECISIVENESS APPEAR IN THIS CRISIS,,,SARKOZY HAS BEEN A BIG INFLAMER OF THE ARAB RESENTMENT IN PARIS...BUT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM HAVE BEEN STATED...PEOPLE RESEARCH A LOT MOVIES AND RESTAURANTS...THEY SHOULD research HISTORY AS WELL !!!
1
Whats so sad about this situation is its so much bigger than Paris. France increased survaillace after charlie hebdo, the result was another larger attack. The answer may lay in foreign policy can France and other western governments continue to ignore the fact that there foreign policy ignoring Saudi Arabia's role in facilitating radical fantacism, Turkey's role in turning a blind eye to the movement of terrorists on its borders and the building of a hellish terrorist "state" across Syria and Iraq all in the name of checking Iran.
Well here we are Iran is unchecked, Syria is in ruins, Bashar al Assad is still in power and the wolves so carefully cultivated to stop all of this from happening are now laying seige to Paris. Yes, this is the fruit of a horrifically failed foreign policy on the part of the whole western world.
Well here we are Iran is unchecked, Syria is in ruins, Bashar al Assad is still in power and the wolves so carefully cultivated to stop all of this from happening are now laying seige to Paris. Yes, this is the fruit of a horrifically failed foreign policy on the part of the whole western world.
4
Enough is enough. I agree with Hollande. It is past time to be nice to Jihadis. If you want to harm the country that gives you all the rights in the world, you are a low-life and should have no rights. Period. End of Story.
21
Val in Brooklyn, NY
"Nonviolence is the greatest and most active force in the world." Gandhi wrote, "It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of humanity. When we tap into the spirit of nonviolence, it becomes contagious and can topple empires." Source: mkgandhi.org
Submitted 11-16-15@10:13 p.m. EST
"Nonviolence is the greatest and most active force in the world." Gandhi wrote, "It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the ingenuity of humanity. When we tap into the spirit of nonviolence, it becomes contagious and can topple empires." Source: mkgandhi.org
Submitted 11-16-15@10:13 p.m. EST
3
Bit maybe ISIS is working to a different script.
1
Val in Brooklyn, NY to bd San Diego
You're not the 1st to disagree w/me nor is the recommendation I got for one of my comments the only one I've received today.
Re: ISIS's script. That doesn't make it a better script and certainly not one that can't be defeated in a better, less destructive, smarter and more permanent way. Others suggested engaging Mullahs & those who LEFT ISIS-- to speak; not just to disclaim ISIS but to shine light away from ISIS for those vulnerable to seduction by them.
BTW, as I told someone w/a similar reply: I replied earlier, to a FRENCH citizen who discouraged an aggressive response to these creatures. I thanked le monsieur for his calm and reason. And, as I told your "soulmate" who disagreed w/ me, after visiting the French consulate w/ le fleurs, to sign their condolence book, if permitted, I'll bring flowers & pay respects to the Lebanese embassy in Manhattan--with my non Muslim hair covered.
Violence responses are failures of courage, sense, intellect and restraint. They only breed more death and destruction. There's always another, more holistically evolved way. And considering Gandhi's savvy, his very concrete and monumental accomplishment, it's tragic that more won't embrace what he proved worked.
As I said to your "compatriot" (sans sarcasm), I bid you peace.
Submitted 11-17-15@1:23 a.m. EST
You're not the 1st to disagree w/me nor is the recommendation I got for one of my comments the only one I've received today.
Re: ISIS's script. That doesn't make it a better script and certainly not one that can't be defeated in a better, less destructive, smarter and more permanent way. Others suggested engaging Mullahs & those who LEFT ISIS-- to speak; not just to disclaim ISIS but to shine light away from ISIS for those vulnerable to seduction by them.
BTW, as I told someone w/a similar reply: I replied earlier, to a FRENCH citizen who discouraged an aggressive response to these creatures. I thanked le monsieur for his calm and reason. And, as I told your "soulmate" who disagreed w/ me, after visiting the French consulate w/ le fleurs, to sign their condolence book, if permitted, I'll bring flowers & pay respects to the Lebanese embassy in Manhattan--with my non Muslim hair covered.
Violence responses are failures of courage, sense, intellect and restraint. They only breed more death and destruction. There's always another, more holistically evolved way. And considering Gandhi's savvy, his very concrete and monumental accomplishment, it's tragic that more won't embrace what he proved worked.
As I said to your "compatriot" (sans sarcasm), I bid you peace.
Submitted 11-17-15@1:23 a.m. EST
1
As a lawyer, I suggest that amending or abrogating a constitution in the name of fighting terrorism is one of the greatest threats to a free society--almost as great as terrorism itself. When we permit greater government intrusion into our privacy, broader searches and fewer procedural safeguards, we travel on a short road to tyranny. Elected representatives lack the courage and fortitude to live up to their oaths to preserve and protect the constitution and offer only short-sighted, get-tough rhetoric to fan the flames of fear. This is the greatest toll that the terrorists exact on all of us.
26
This is absolutely spot on, Frencg citizens should reject this proposole and protect their rights.
4
@Gomez Rd,
That's exactly what Paul Krugman wrote in his last article: don't a give in to fear, don't be afraid of the next terrorist attack, continue to live your life, let terrorists kill your family, don't answer them, don't try to offend somebody. Then the terrorists obviously will stop their terror amazed by your bravery.
That's exactly what Paul Krugman wrote in his last article: don't a give in to fear, don't be afraid of the next terrorist attack, continue to live your life, let terrorists kill your family, don't answer them, don't try to offend somebody. Then the terrorists obviously will stop their terror amazed by your bravery.
3
To those who are advocating that we treat these attacks as a mere crime, as the president seems to be doing, I suggest that you reconsider what has happened over the last few weeks. ISIS blew a plane out of the sky, killing over 200. More that 40 died in Beirut. At least 132 now in Paris. And today they threatened Washington.
They are coming here, to the U.S., you can be sure of that. And when the first American is slaughtered at a movie theater or at a football game, how will you then explain your position?
The only way to defend against the threat that they will attack us here is to eliminate them over there. And the only way to accomplish that is with a war of total annihilation. There are no hearts and minds to be won here.
Sherman said it best - "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it, and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." That is now true for France, and will be true for us very shortly if we continue to underestimate these people.
With apologies to our southern brethren, what we need right now is a Sherman.
They are coming here, to the U.S., you can be sure of that. And when the first American is slaughtered at a movie theater or at a football game, how will you then explain your position?
The only way to defend against the threat that they will attack us here is to eliminate them over there. And the only way to accomplish that is with a war of total annihilation. There are no hearts and minds to be won here.
Sherman said it best - "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it, and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out." That is now true for France, and will be true for us very shortly if we continue to underestimate these people.
With apologies to our southern brethren, what we need right now is a Sherman.
24
Why would war be needed for "total annihilation"? Can't that be accomplished with cruise missiles and conventional bombs?
pffft, Americans already slaughter each other in movie theaters, football games, offices, shopping centers, schools, the streets, etc. etc. you're more likely to be killed by some crazed, gun-wielding fellow countryman than you are some ISIS nutjob. explain your position on that.
ridiculous fear mongering is blinding the entire country to the fact that its biggest threat is itself.
9/11 is all the proof needed that our military might is no guarantee against these people "over there".
ridiculous fear mongering is blinding the entire country to the fact that its biggest threat is itself.
9/11 is all the proof needed that our military might is no guarantee against these people "over there".
3
No surprise that those most vehemently opposed to the Iraq invasion will see similarities in Hollande's words. They see Iraq in every utterance on national security. It's always about another "invasion" for them. Nothing but.
While they are stuck in the past, Westerners have no such luxury. We must come up with some plans quickly to address the growing cancer of jihadism.
While they are stuck in the past, Westerners have no such luxury. We must come up with some plans quickly to address the growing cancer of jihadism.
9
@AACNY
You and nobody else has a "plan" that doesn't involve invasion or massive, indiscriminate bombing. If you do have an alternative plan, let's hear it!
You and nobody else has a "plan" that doesn't involve invasion or massive, indiscriminate bombing. If you do have an alternative plan, let's hear it!
1
scsmits:
Do you really believe that there are no other options than invasion?
Let's examine the president's handling of events. For starters, he should just stop pretending he's fighting ISIS. No more false narratives about ISIS' being defeated/contained/on the run. Next he should muster up some anger (false) and convey a message of strength -- for the sake of our citizens, who are becoming increasingly concerned -- as opposed to projecting an image of an academic "scold."
Another president would be schmoozing, arm-twisting and blackmailing, if necessary, leaders in the Middle East to get them to act and put their intelligence and networks to work behind the scenes. Obama tells them that it's their job. He will not do it. That's not leadership.
Where the US leader should be standing is, instead, an empty spot occupied by someone who doesn't want that particular job.
Do you really believe that there are no other options than invasion?
Let's examine the president's handling of events. For starters, he should just stop pretending he's fighting ISIS. No more false narratives about ISIS' being defeated/contained/on the run. Next he should muster up some anger (false) and convey a message of strength -- for the sake of our citizens, who are becoming increasingly concerned -- as opposed to projecting an image of an academic "scold."
Another president would be schmoozing, arm-twisting and blackmailing, if necessary, leaders in the Middle East to get them to act and put their intelligence and networks to work behind the scenes. Obama tells them that it's their job. He will not do it. That's not leadership.
Where the US leader should be standing is, instead, an empty spot occupied by someone who doesn't want that particular job.
2
France cannot win this while they play defense. The west, especially Europe is rich, old and tired. The east is is poor, overpopulated, and jazzed up to kill
6
The guy in the video should be expelled from france.
3
That would be hard to do, since he lives in Belgium
2
Actually, he lives in Syria. He was born in Belgium, but joined Daesh in Syria. There's been an international arrest warrant out for him for quite a while now.
I'm not sure how you "destroy terrorism" by bombing innocent civilians and leaving their country in ruins. Seems like a formula for creating more terrorists.
7
It almost seems that the western nations may enter a fascist world.
3
that happened in the USA ca. November, 2000.
5
Reagan Had IT RIGHT in 1986 and Hollande Has It Right in 2015. In 1986 the Libyan's bombed a West Berlin discotheque frequented by American servicemen. One American soldier and a Turkish woman died, and more than 200 people were wounded, including 50 other servicemen. Mr. Reagan, in his speech, said the United States had ''solid evidence'' that Libya was behind the West Berlin attack and that ''Libya's agents planted the bomb.'' He lambasted Colonel Qaddafi and said the United States, with the help of allies, had aborted numerous Libyan terrorist attacks including ''a planned massacre, using grenades and small arms, of civilians waiting in line for visas at an American embassy.''
Mr. Reagan ended his speech on a somber note.
Reagan Recalls Warning
''I warned that there should be no place on earth where terrorists can rest and train and practice their deadly skills,'' he said. ''I meant it. I said that we should act with others, if possible, and alone, if necessary, to insure that terrorists have no sanctuary anywhere. ''Tonight we have,'' he said. Mr. Reagan and his ranking aides delivered an unmistakable warning to Colonel Qaddafi. ''When our citizens are abused or attacked anywhere in the world, we will respond in self-defense,'' Mr. Reagan said. ''If necessary, we will do it again.''
We should stand shoulder to shoulder with the French and any other country to eradicate this scourge from the face of the planet.
Mr. Reagan ended his speech on a somber note.
Reagan Recalls Warning
''I warned that there should be no place on earth where terrorists can rest and train and practice their deadly skills,'' he said. ''I meant it. I said that we should act with others, if possible, and alone, if necessary, to insure that terrorists have no sanctuary anywhere. ''Tonight we have,'' he said. Mr. Reagan and his ranking aides delivered an unmistakable warning to Colonel Qaddafi. ''When our citizens are abused or attacked anywhere in the world, we will respond in self-defense,'' Mr. Reagan said. ''If necessary, we will do it again.''
We should stand shoulder to shoulder with the French and any other country to eradicate this scourge from the face of the planet.
15
While President Obama vows to "redouble our efforts" (double what, exactly?) and proceeds to explain why his political opponents are wrong about it. Just couldn't help himself.
7
Let's cut the French some slack. Unlike Americans, they don't take public massacres for granted.
29
Our mistake was drawing a line in the sand, then doing nothing as ISIS marched across to Paris and other lands. The rest is and will be history.
5
Really?
1. We drew no line in the sand regarding ISIS.
2. ISIS did not march across to Paris and other lands.
Really!
1. We drew no line in the sand regarding ISIS.
2. ISIS did not march across to Paris and other lands.
Really!
3
Vive la France! I completely endorse Monsieur Holland's call for thorough and sweeping retaliation. And the moot court lawyers and would-be philosophers or moral theologians, who have posted comments condemning his resolve, can take a hike off a pier.
14
There is a blindness of many commenters, and certainly our president, to Islamic theology. The Quran's final say on how to treat non-believers is simple. You give them three choices: die, convert or pay a humiliating extortion tax. (9:29)
This commandment to treat humanity as an extortion racket is not limited by any "context." As it is in the Quran's last chronological chapter, based on the Quran's built-in rule of abrogation, it overrules anything that may be in conflict with it. Allah's barbaric commandment is further confirmed by the Hadith (actions and teachings of Mohammed), the actions of the Sahabah (disciples), every single school of Islamic jurisprudence, and every tafsir (Quran commentary).
It is important to understand that Islam is not a religion that is simply a personal relationship between a believer and his God. Subjugation of non-believers, i.e., fascism, is a CORE Islamic tenet and is inseparable from the religion.
This commandment to treat humanity as an extortion racket is not limited by any "context." As it is in the Quran's last chronological chapter, based on the Quran's built-in rule of abrogation, it overrules anything that may be in conflict with it. Allah's barbaric commandment is further confirmed by the Hadith (actions and teachings of Mohammed), the actions of the Sahabah (disciples), every single school of Islamic jurisprudence, and every tafsir (Quran commentary).
It is important to understand that Islam is not a religion that is simply a personal relationship between a believer and his God. Subjugation of non-believers, i.e., fascism, is a CORE Islamic tenet and is inseparable from the religion.
27
The Jihadis' fascism has met Western appeasement and aversion to war to create a perfect storm.
6
After reading this article and others about the tragic events in Paris, it seems more needs to be done to reach out to the Muslim community which has been marginalized from broader French society. Instead of calling Constitutional reforms to attack ISIS at home and abroad, Hollande should be calling for reforms to determine what has France done to anger these men, how be society be more inclusive, how can society be more empathetic to their plight. France needs to come to some kind of reconciliation with the Muslim world. France has been at war with Islam, the religion of peace, since the Battle of Tours in the 8th century, isn't it time to stop? Peace.
3
The parents don't send their kids to school because of the liberal education they consider offensive to their religion.
They can't get a job.
They don't have money to live.
There's one theme of why they feel marginalized.
They can't get a job.
They don't have money to live.
There's one theme of why they feel marginalized.
6
NO...
1
Marginalized? Free public education until end of College, billions of euros spent every year to improve living condtions in Muslim dominated neighborhoods, billions of euros spent in social welfare, strong laws to fight against discrimination based on race or religion .....
And this comes with the only price of secularism in public space. Bible or Quran will never rule the country, French laws will never be modified to fit with specific needs of a specific religion. This is the only reason why Islamist terrorists hate France.
Nothing to be ashamed of. And certainly nothing to justify 130 dead people as you did.
And this comes with the only price of secularism in public space. Bible or Quran will never rule the country, French laws will never be modified to fit with specific needs of a specific religion. This is the only reason why Islamist terrorists hate France.
Nothing to be ashamed of. And certainly nothing to justify 130 dead people as you did.
12
Hollande sounds like the French GW Bush.
When its considered the number of "SYRIANS" who died under French colonial rule, hey, why not?
When its considered the number of "SYRIANS" who died under French colonial rule, hey, why not?
2
If you want to go back in the past, why forget about how we got our independence from British with help from the French?
6
EVERYONE sounds like Bush to those still angry about the Iraq Invasion.
5
AACNY: EVERYONE sounds like Bush to those still angry about the Iraq Invasion. ---- all puns intended, I suppose ----
Hmm ... lets see. A trillion dollars down, tanked the economy, 4000 soldiers dead and 10000+ wounded, 300,000 Iraqis died, now the country is on the brink of dismemberment, and provides the cradle for the Islamic State / Daesh ... geee, I wonder why?
Hmm ... lets see. A trillion dollars down, tanked the economy, 4000 soldiers dead and 10000+ wounded, 300,000 Iraqis died, now the country is on the brink of dismemberment, and provides the cradle for the Islamic State / Daesh ... geee, I wonder why?
1
The French have always known when to brush Democratic sensibilities aside to ensure security .. look back at how they handed the Algerian threat years ago. I hate to admit it but this quasi socialist Hollande understands the ISIS threat far better than our own President does.
9
Oh please, on a good day we in america gun down around 100 in our own country by our own home grown terrorists .Where is the outrage? Bring back the draft with a constitutional amendment for tax increases to pay for war. Then let us see politicians clamor for war.
20
since 911 there have been about 140,000 firearm homicides in th usa
americans are their own best terrorists
americans are their own best terrorists
16
And we have over 32,000 traffic fatalities a year. Baltimore had its 300th muder this past weekend and has had at least one more since--t in a city of just over 600,000. Yes, we are our own best terrorists and our own worst enemies...
2
I think we've seen this movie before. Do the French do remakes of American movies? I always thought it was the other way around. Rahm Emanuel famously said: "Never let a serious crisis go to waste." Hollande clearly understands what he meant. Namely that you can get away with things when people are still shell-shocked that they wouldn't otherwise put up with. That's how we got the Patriot Act and the invasion of Iraq, the latter of which gave us ISIS.
The French are skinnier than us. Maybe they are also smarter and won't let their leaders demagogue them into surrendering the precious liberties that all of these ill-defined wars on terror are supposedly protecting. At the moment it doesn't look good.
The French are skinnier than us. Maybe they are also smarter and won't let their leaders demagogue them into surrendering the precious liberties that all of these ill-defined wars on terror are supposedly protecting. At the moment it doesn't look good.
8
How about measures to allow law-abiding public to arm themselves?!
6
I have always wanted my own nuclear weapons - I agree.
10
I profoundly disagree with Mr. Robin P Little comments. What he does not seem to understand is the world has reached a tipping point. Enough is enough. We are going to destroy ISIS. By any means necessary. If we do not then this will never end. And it has to end. No more half measures. At what point is such a war over he asks. When ISIS loses the means, the capacity and the will to fight. That is how all wars end.
15
> “Our democracy has prevailed over much more formidable opponents than these cowardly assassins,” Mr. Hollande said...But yet you believe you need to modify your Constitution. Sounds like a bad call to me. Take some time to consider the potential downsides to cutting back civil liberties. Why was your Constitution written as it was? A Constitution is a document you need to stand by during difficult times not just easy ones.
13
The goal of Isil is to drag the west into a religious war. They are doing everything they can do to set the trap for a new Crusade. I just hope we think before we leap. Why are the real practicing Muslims sitting on the side line mute? The largest group of victims of the thugs are Muslims. Why are they not leading the fight? It’s time to get the new car smell off the weapons they love to buy from us and put some skin in the game. If we frame anything we do as us Christians against them Muslims, we are to make every defender of the faith come out of the woodwork. Maybe we should stop watching old cowboy movies where the hero kills the Indian Chief and the leaderless tribe run off to the hills. In the real world when you kill the chief there are ten more to take his place. If we are to destroy the thugs, we need to tone down the testosterone and start using our gray matter. Little thought was given to the aftermath of regime change in Libya and Iraq. Look at the mess we have made of the region by not looking before we leap. The first or second sentence out of Rubio/Cruz is how their families escaped tyranny in their homelands and came to America. Now these same lovers of Democracy want to bar others trying to escape from their own personal hell. Their hypocrisy makes me want to throw up. Barring the refugees will only strengthen the hand of the thugs. Getting really tired of all of the pandering by the right to the fringe. Remember “You are either with us or you are against”
11
"Why are the real practicing Muslims sitting on the side line mute?"
Repeating the shopworn conservative myth of "Muslim silence" in the face of terrorism puts you, yourself, in the very group you so eloquently denounce: the fringe who pander to the right. A very few minutes online will disprove this patently false assertion. I strongly suggest that you start here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_18...
Then continue by googling "Muslim Silence Myth."
It is that easy.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Repeating the shopworn conservative myth of "Muslim silence" in the face of terrorism puts you, yourself, in the very group you so eloquently denounce: the fringe who pander to the right. A very few minutes online will disprove this patently false assertion. I strongly suggest that you start here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kamran-pasha/the-big-lie-about-muslim_b_18...
Then continue by googling "Muslim Silence Myth."
It is that easy.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
3
With almost half the world Muslim I stand by what I said. Have you forgot the King of Jordan in his flying suit swearing his resolve would be unshaken until he brings those responsible for the death of his pilot to justice? With a combined army in the region of five million strong why are they not fighting the thugs? If they are shouting maybe they should shout a lot louder. I am not a conservative but I do remember Viet Nam. Lesson learned there is you can't save people who don't want to be saved. If I have to search Huffington Post for an article about the outrage of true believers doesn’t that tell you that maybe the volume should be turned up? How about the Saudis playing both ends against the middle? Are they not Muslims? Why they have accepted not one refuge from Syria? Their silence is defeaning
7
If you have to resort to a Google search, it may not be a myth.
2
How can these people who have gone to Syria an are known terrorists be walking around Europe unhindered?
If they don't have sufficient proof to arrest them, I suggest they come up with a new charge of "Islamic Radicalization." If found to be a Muslim radical who believes in killing civilians by Judge- you can be detained indefinitely. A thought crime perhaps - but too bad.
If they don't have sufficient proof to arrest them, I suggest they come up with a new charge of "Islamic Radicalization." If found to be a Muslim radical who believes in killing civilians by Judge- you can be detained indefinitely. A thought crime perhaps - but too bad.
6
We can't afford another war with thousand of troops on the ground. We've been going full throttle for 13 years now. We're broke. Europe has open borders and a lot of the Isis thug cowards are from European countries. Let them pay the brunt and we can continue with air strikes.
6
Some of the survivors of the attack at the concert hall described the terrorist they remember seeing as European, adding that he was not wearing a mask. With so many eye witness accounts available, a composite drawing of the only unidentified attacker should be possible. It should be made clear to us that in the world we live in today, the threat could come from next door as well as from the Middle East and North Africa. It does not have a predefined face on it.
2
France is not 'at war' with Muslims and never will be. The French understand the Arab world and Islam,better than any other Western society.
When you look at the political intrigue that has gone on for decades in this region it's hard to determine just who "the enemy' is.
Clearly,establishing a pipeline from Qatar to Europe (and thus bypassing Russian pipelines to Europe) is a dear wish for many and the high quality,relatively easy to extract oil, is also a big factor.
There are,reportedly,clandestine pipelines and a large number of trucks involved in looting oil from the region, which would have to be refined somewhere......Who is buying and refining this oil?
As usual the oil revenues are going everywhere except to the people whose daily lives and hope for the future depend on it.
When you look at the political intrigue that has gone on for decades in this region it's hard to determine just who "the enemy' is.
Clearly,establishing a pipeline from Qatar to Europe (and thus bypassing Russian pipelines to Europe) is a dear wish for many and the high quality,relatively easy to extract oil, is also a big factor.
There are,reportedly,clandestine pipelines and a large number of trucks involved in looting oil from the region, which would have to be refined somewhere......Who is buying and refining this oil?
As usual the oil revenues are going everywhere except to the people whose daily lives and hope for the future depend on it.
2
It is s simple fact that a Muslim's sacred duty to kill non-Muslims is emphasized in the Koran no less than 109 times. The Koran is first and foremost a call to arms, not a book of peace. If L Ron Hubbard had of written the Koran instead of Dianetics, he would have been arrested in any Western country for inciting religious hatred and violence. Yes, the vast majority of Muslims are intelligent, caring people who seem perfectly capable of ignoring or explaining away the violent exhortations that their beloved book contains. A small (but growing) minority use it to justify murder and mayhem. What to do? Perhaps some progressive Imam could think about sitting down to write Koran.2, sans the ultra-violence? Would probably be a hit with crowd-funding.
13
Bravo, President Hollande!
6
And France falls down the rabbit hole of fascism. How sad and how predictable. Let's be clear on the fact that France did willingly enter a war against ISIS and was actually the aggressor in this conflict. When you go to war with another entity, it seems to me that you should expect the possibility of retaliation from time to time. Yes, ISIS is abominable and horrendous. But the French claim that it is having a war forced upon it is just not factually correct.
Second, the willingness of the French state to feed the darkest impulses of its citizens is unfortunate. The US did this after 9-11 and it led to moral, political, economic and military disaster. ISIS is just one of the direct by-products of the US action. Surely France could and should learn something from the Americans' disastrous experiences and take a bit of time to cool off and put the attack into perspective, rather than acting out of a blind, self-righteous rage?
Second, the willingness of the French state to feed the darkest impulses of its citizens is unfortunate. The US did this after 9-11 and it led to moral, political, economic and military disaster. ISIS is just one of the direct by-products of the US action. Surely France could and should learn something from the Americans' disastrous experiences and take a bit of time to cool off and put the attack into perspective, rather than acting out of a blind, self-righteous rage?
7
Thus begins the slow and steady winnowing away of basic civil rights not only of naturalized citizens but of all citizens.
Better to arm every man and woman in France and allow vigilante justice to run rampant through every city street and rural byway then to live under a police state that will last for first 3 months, then 6, then 1yr, then 5 and then for ever.
France saw its way through the Reign of Terror back in the 1790's with the loss of thousands of live. I'm sure a new Reign of Terror could do no worse today.
Better to arm every man and woman in France and allow vigilante justice to run rampant through every city street and rural byway then to live under a police state that will last for first 3 months, then 6, then 1yr, then 5 and then for ever.
France saw its way through the Reign of Terror back in the 1790's with the loss of thousands of live. I'm sure a new Reign of Terror could do no worse today.
> I'm sure a new Reign of Terror could do no worse today.
I'll take that bet. Sure it could.
I'll take that bet. Sure it could.
3
I am saddened to see Good Americans using the NY Times comment section to call for the brutal killing of people behind the Paris attacks. The more painful the death, the better.
Typical is this comment about the Belgian who is ID'd as the leader: "God speed to the security services in helping him obtain a most painful martyrdom."
Harboring sentiments like these make those Good Americans the moral equal of the people who took a young Jordanian pilot and burned him alive.
What we all do under pressure determines our character.
Alas, it also reveals our character.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Typical is this comment about the Belgian who is ID'd as the leader: "God speed to the security services in helping him obtain a most painful martyrdom."
Harboring sentiments like these make those Good Americans the moral equal of the people who took a young Jordanian pilot and burned him alive.
What we all do under pressure determines our character.
Alas, it also reveals our character.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
1
FOUR THOUSAND Men have left Europe to fight for ISIS according to a New Yorker article published in September ( "What Happens to Former ISIS Fighters?”). Of that number, ONE THOUSAND returned. The article states that "many" (they don't write all) have been questioned by intelligence services, BUT THE NUMBER OF PROSECUTIONS in THE EU IS "SHOCKINGLY LOW". In fact that describe one individual who went, fought, came back, and WEEKS later was interrogated by the police.
What! WHAT? Why are these people still walking the streets? This makes EUROPE appear to be totally ill equipped and unprepared to do the heavy lifting necessary to fight terrorism.
What! WHAT? Why are these people still walking the streets? This makes EUROPE appear to be totally ill equipped and unprepared to do the heavy lifting necessary to fight terrorism.
9
I am still waiting for the billions of good Muslims to step up and rid themselves of these hateful radical Islamic jihadists. What are they waiting for? Their silence is disturbing and allows the rest of the world to look at their faith with question......are all Muslims potentially hateful terrorists?
Wake-up, your faith is being defined by a small number of crazy medieval radicals. The doors are closing on you in countries that are reaching the breaking point that has had enough of this Jihadi terrorism.
Wake-up, your faith is being defined by a small number of crazy medieval radicals. The doors are closing on you in countries that are reaching the breaking point that has had enough of this Jihadi terrorism.
8
Hey, and I'm still waiting for the hundreds of millions of American and European Christians to step up and rid themselves of their military-industrial complex, aka crony capitalism perpetuated by a corrupt political class, stretching from Moscow to Washington DC! What are WE waiting for? Our silence disturbs me.
Wake up! Our faith - be it Christian or secular democracy - is being defined by a small number of greedy banksters and oil barons.
...Please...enough preaching to others.
Wake up! Our faith - be it Christian or secular democracy - is being defined by a small number of greedy banksters and oil barons.
...Please...enough preaching to others.
2
If the commenter read more widely, he/she would have a better idea of what is going on in the Arab world.
=============
King Salman of Saudi Arabia stated, “We emphasize the need for the international community to redouble its efforts to eradicate this dangerous scourge and to rid the world of its evil...."
"On Sunday, Sunni scholars with the Muslim World League based in Islam’s holiest city of Makkah in Saudi Arabia also condemned the attack in Paris and one that took place in Lebanon a day earlier...."
In Jeddah, the secretary general of the world’s largest body of Muslim nations, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), has condemned the terrorist attacks in Paris and has expressed the organization’s “unwavering solidary and support to France.”
All from the Arab News, whose ownership is affiliated with the House of Saud.
=============
King Salman of Saudi Arabia stated, “We emphasize the need for the international community to redouble its efforts to eradicate this dangerous scourge and to rid the world of its evil...."
"On Sunday, Sunni scholars with the Muslim World League based in Islam’s holiest city of Makkah in Saudi Arabia also condemned the attack in Paris and one that took place in Lebanon a day earlier...."
In Jeddah, the secretary general of the world’s largest body of Muslim nations, the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), has condemned the terrorist attacks in Paris and has expressed the organization’s “unwavering solidary and support to France.”
All from the Arab News, whose ownership is affiliated with the House of Saud.
I understand the desire by many commentators to not overreact to this atrocious act. And being a liberal I am inclined to be concerned for those suffering regardless of race, religion etc.
However there is a part of me that cherishes liberal ideals and wants to protect them from being overrun by people who don't share them.
There is a reason Muslims don't integrate into other cultures. They don't want to. They are not all violent, of course not but they do not believe in the principles of the Enlightenment. They espouse theocracy and the subjugation of women as part of their faith. I gave up Islam after 9/11 because I could no longer hold both western liberal values and Islamic religious values in my head at the same time.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, that is absurd. But being a true Muslim and a true citizen of a Western liberal nation are mutually exclusive.
However there is a part of me that cherishes liberal ideals and wants to protect them from being overrun by people who don't share them.
There is a reason Muslims don't integrate into other cultures. They don't want to. They are not all violent, of course not but they do not believe in the principles of the Enlightenment. They espouse theocracy and the subjugation of women as part of their faith. I gave up Islam after 9/11 because I could no longer hold both western liberal values and Islamic religious values in my head at the same time.
Not all Muslims are terrorists, that is absurd. But being a true Muslim and a true citizen of a Western liberal nation are mutually exclusive.
16
I have learned a great deal from many comments here.
It is all Obama's fault.
Why didn't he just say, when he was sworn in, "Hey it's me now. I'm here. W is gone. So, come on guys, stop... will ya?"
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
It is all Obama's fault.
Why didn't he just say, when he was sworn in, "Hey it's me now. I'm here. W is gone. So, come on guys, stop... will ya?"
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
2
First of all. this problem is not limited to France, no need to appeasement.
We are living in internet age, Anymore ISIS or Al Qaeda doesn't need to organize people under some roof. Every attacker and terrorist is a unit and any moment this horror could erupt again.
So problem, Particularly Muslim immigrants and US Mass shooters are prone to act on seldom. They will get poisoned and doctrinated by internet and a couple of communication bring them to trigger point.
So we cannot be negligent about dis-incentivized Immigrants unless If you are going to apply Trump solution, total deportation.
Europe and western nations must take control on Immigrant populations, particularly Muslims. That old word seems to be still the key to solve this problem, Society integration.
Or we will see many massacres.
You cannot do anything about US mass shooters , because they are under protection of 2nd amendment.
We are living in internet age, Anymore ISIS or Al Qaeda doesn't need to organize people under some roof. Every attacker and terrorist is a unit and any moment this horror could erupt again.
So problem, Particularly Muslim immigrants and US Mass shooters are prone to act on seldom. They will get poisoned and doctrinated by internet and a couple of communication bring them to trigger point.
So we cannot be negligent about dis-incentivized Immigrants unless If you are going to apply Trump solution, total deportation.
Europe and western nations must take control on Immigrant populations, particularly Muslims. That old word seems to be still the key to solve this problem, Society integration.
Or we will see many massacres.
You cannot do anything about US mass shooters , because they are under protection of 2nd amendment.
2
France should outlaw Islam. If the Muslims don't want to convert let them go to a Muslim country.
11
All civilized countries should outlaw islam, the fanatics can be happy in their "Islamic Paradises".
6
And Protestantism. And Judaism. And atheism. Why - just bring back the Inquisition and that will clean matters up very nicely!
5
> Why - just bring back the Inquisition and that will clean matters up very nicely!
Ah, the wisdom of Arnaud Amalric...
Ah, the wisdom of Arnaud Amalric...
1
Well I'm Chinese and I uncompromisingly stand with those innocent victims. When I recall how western media such as nytimes, bbc, cnn used to report about the terrorist attacks in China( my friend lives in southern Xinjiang and she saw what happened in her own eyes, 'bloody slaughter everywhere' she says,'definitely terrorism'), I notice the suspicious difference of how they choose the words(former is for china and latter is for paris): knife attack &terrorism,violence&terrorism, knife-wielding&terrorism, uyghur-han conflicts&terrorism. At that time I thought wow they do have a high tolerance for terrorists. Now I realize they just have double standards because Chinese government is evil so life of Chinese people are inferior and not to be worthy to describe as victims of terrorism. Basically this is how they report terrorist attacks in China: this is street riots; uyghur muslims struggle to obtain their self-determination for justice and freedom 3. Chinese police conduct violent suppression by shooting and killing Muslims who dare to protest. Now why don't you do the same for Paris? Also remember how French government said they don't think terrorists who conduct Xinjiang 7.5 attack should be executed?Your news report are so objective, fair-and-square except when referring to communist country. Do whatever you want to fight against Chinese government, but show some respect to Chinese people, thank you.
5
I agree that the Western media under represents the terrorist attacks by radical Muslims in China or passes them off as some form of "national struggle". But at least some of us do know that radical Islam is a universal scourge that threatens every modern state. I admire Chinese culture and I stand with the people of China.
1
President Obama's reminder that these guys have the advantage of not caring if they die was very sobering. On what basis do people not care if they live or die? Well, at a minimum, you have to believe in an afterlife - that your soul will survive your physical death. In other words, you have to be a religious believer. Christopher Hitchens was right: religion poisons everything.
Has anyone yet come up with a suggestion as to how we get around this - how we fight back against people who don't care at all if they die - who even INTEND to die as part of their project? It's really the rate-limiting step: people who don't care anything about this world, or anyone in it, including themselves.
Has anyone yet come up with a suggestion as to how we get around this - how we fight back against people who don't care at all if they die - who even INTEND to die as part of their project? It's really the rate-limiting step: people who don't care anything about this world, or anyone in it, including themselves.
9
You don't get around it. You grant them their wish and kill them. You go to where they are to do this. You don't wait until they come here.
7
"how we fight back against people who don't care at all if they die "
Give them what they want and kill as many of them as we can as fast as we can.
France is a nuclear power and certainly has the means, and now possibly the will, to destroy ISIS while Obama has the means but not the will.
Give them what they want and kill as many of them as we can as fast as we can.
France is a nuclear power and certainly has the means, and now possibly the will, to destroy ISIS while Obama has the means but not the will.
8
Hey folks ask yourselves this question and ask it very well do you think these refugees are fleeing because of Bashar Al-Assad. I think not they are fleeing because of ISIS wake up people please. If you folks want to stop the Syrian refugee crisis strengthen Assad control of Syria it is not that hard. Americans need to drop the rhetoric of Assad must go because what has it gotten America it has caused the greatest refugee crisis since WW2. Then another thing America stop dropping guns and ammo over there too it has failed too.
9
I totally agree with you. I think the anti-Assad story is a neocon/Saudi narrative invented to get rid of Iranian influence in Syria and Lebanon.
Now, after 5 years, over 250k dead, and millions displaced, Obama is going to have to face the reality Putin saw from the start. The FSA is a handful of greedy Ahmed Chalabis and a few thousand men for hire.
As far as I'm concerned, anything supported by Graham, McCain and Hillary in ME is totally suspect.
Now, after 5 years, over 250k dead, and millions displaced, Obama is going to have to face the reality Putin saw from the start. The FSA is a handful of greedy Ahmed Chalabis and a few thousand men for hire.
As far as I'm concerned, anything supported by Graham, McCain and Hillary in ME is totally suspect.
5
Those who sell arms to ISL need to be identified and boycotted. This would seriously restrict their capabilities to do harm. Why is this issue never discussed? Stop the arms suppliers now.
2
Boycotted? How about bombed?
4
And what do we do to the United States government who gave millions, if not billions, of dollars of weapons to Syrian anti-government insurgents (and Iraq as well) and most all of it became the arsenal of ISIS.
4
Like the USA did with Al Qaeda when fighting the Soviets? Yes, call out and boycott arms dealers! good luck with that.
We need Islamic people who claim they are nonviolent and want to live in our lands to proactively report jihadists in their midst. This is not an age for Idealism. We must face this war against humanity in a united way across the world because not to is an immoral act against peaceful cooperative nations for all peoples.
4
It seems everyone has swallowed a crazy pill. The French are declaring war, while Obama insists this is not war, but a crime for the FBI. The French have no means to wage war on ISIS. They can drop a few bombs, that's all. The US could wipe ISIS off the map in a week. But Obama and both sides of the aisle in Congress all agree there will be no significant boots on the ground. The alternative from Kerry and Obama is a proxy army of Arab Sunni Muslims (jordanian and/or Turkish is in vogue), or the Kurds, our stalwart allies, to enthusiastically conquer ISIS-held territory. This thinking is so delusional it has to be a mass ingestion of a crazy pill. The Turks, far from hating ISIS, don't mind ISIS at all - ISIS has proven to be very effective at killing lots of Kurds, who the Turks hate more than ISIS. So count the Turks out of the proxy army idea. And though ISIS horribly burned their pilot to death, the Jordanians are generally sympathetic with ISIS dogma (they're conservative Arab Sunni Muslims, like many Jordanians). Plus Jordan does not want to find itself in a ground war far from Jordan's borders with 10 or 20,000 delusional psychopathic killers. As for the Kurds, they are interested in reclaiming ISIS occupied territory within the bounds of their hoped-for Kurdistan, but that's it. They will not be marching on Raqqa, ever. But the enthused chatter about the great Proxy Army continues in the White House. We have all lost our minds - that may be ISIS's greatest victory.
6
Russia suffered an equivalent loss of life for a similar reason. Their government is not presently on friendly terms with ours, but their civilians are equally deserving of our condolences.
4
Freeze Saudi assets and boycott their oil. Ditti for any other country funding ISIS. Gas will be higher but we can weather the storm. If you drive a gas guzzling SUV then walk.
No troops on the ground unless the draft is reinstated with no school deferment. Our troops cannot be redeployed as they have done their part. I don't want to hear that our troops volunteered. Many are rural poor kids. It's time the wealthier kids did their share for their freedom.
If we are going to have boots on the ground then implement a war tax. The wealthier folks have more assets to protect so they get taxed the most. We are not going to put this war on a credit card like George W did.
No troops on the ground unless the draft is reinstated with no school deferment. Our troops cannot be redeployed as they have done their part. I don't want to hear that our troops volunteered. Many are rural poor kids. It's time the wealthier kids did their share for their freedom.
If we are going to have boots on the ground then implement a war tax. The wealthier folks have more assets to protect so they get taxed the most. We are not going to put this war on a credit card like George W did.
20
Imagine, common sense, finally. Use the WW2 approach as the model. W had that opportunity in 2001, but instead he told us to go shopping. JMM's approach is the right one, but our president appears to live on another planet.
1
Why did it take so long for Obama to bomb the oil tankers? Only a third were hit? Go back and finish the job. Where does ISIS get its financial support from (Saudi Arabia)? Show the Saudis some disrespect. Do hundreds of US innocents have to die from future suicide attacks until the neocons dominating our foreign policy are removed due to their childish obsession on removing Assad and Putin?
7
On how to deal with ISIS, President Obama says he's pretty sure his strategy of containment is working - but if anyone thinks they have a better idea, to please let him know.
OK - how about this:
Give everyone in Raqqa 2 week's notice to vacate the premises. All of the premises. Then level the entire place. Follow the gentlemen from ISIS to their next "capital city". Give notice to vacate. Level the town. Continue as above until locals are so upset with bad guys that bad guys have nowhere to live. THEN - send in ground troops to politely inquire of the locals who the bad guys are and where they might be. Kill bad guys. Go home.
Simple - but effective.
OK - how about this:
Give everyone in Raqqa 2 week's notice to vacate the premises. All of the premises. Then level the entire place. Follow the gentlemen from ISIS to their next "capital city". Give notice to vacate. Level the town. Continue as above until locals are so upset with bad guys that bad guys have nowhere to live. THEN - send in ground troops to politely inquire of the locals who the bad guys are and where they might be. Kill bad guys. Go home.
Simple - but effective.
3
What if those remaining, who become refugees (we need more of those in the world?), don't reject ISIS but become part of it? Are you going to try to eradicate 1.2 billion Muslims you have radicalized all around the world? And what will they do to Paris, London, Washington, NY, Madrid, Berlin, Sydney, etc. in the meantime? What will the West have to do to protect its own people? No civil liberties for anyone? No freedom of movement? Cameras in everyone's homes? Then ISIS has won. The people who took part in this cowardly attack on innocent people seemed to be innocent people too, and citizens of countries in Europe. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you join ISIS if it were bombing Sydney? Indeed, with an attack on a city about as far away from Sydney as you can get, you have suggested decimating the cities where ISIS has its HQ's. If they attacked Sydney itself, would you suggest capitulation or retaliation to your friends? You are suggesting that the people of Syria and Iraq, and other heretofore non-radicalized Muslims will turn against ISIS, when the bombs that destroy their homes come not from ISIS, but directly from American, British, French and Australian planes. I find that highly unlikely.
2
That is like the Allies in WWII saying we shouldn't attack Germany in case those who aren't Nazis become Nazis, too. Those who are in Raqqa but not ISIS are in deep trouble, right now, whichever way you look at it. Something must be done. Giving them time to leave is about as much as they can reasonably expect at this point, given that their fellow citizens are launching attacks on innocent people all over the place. If they truly want peace, they need to get rid of ISIS themselves. They need to see that the bombing won't stop until they do. If you have a better idea, let's hear it...
1
This is a result of our feckless foreign policy, since 2010. Pulling out of Iraq and encouraging the so-called "Arab Spring" created a vacuum in much of Syria and Iraq and ISIS stepped right in to fill the void. Obama decided that Assad had to be deposed, despite being the legitimate leader of a sovereign nation. He may be a dictator, but he kept the country stable and protected most of the religious minorities. Now we've got chaos. I hope the Syrians will forgive us...
3
despite being the legitimate leader of a sovereign nation...
Just like Saddam Hussein was. Just like the king of Bahrain is, or the president of Venezuela. What percent of Americans still believe that Barack Obama is not the legitimate president of the US? For two decades the communist rulers of China were not recognized as legitimate by the US and many other countries. What is legitimate seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Salvador Allende was the legitimate leader of Chile, was he not, until the CIA deposed him? Right now, who is the legitimate leader of Libya, or, for that matter, Afghanistan, where the US still has troops? This is a major problem not just for us but for the world, not just now but for all time. When the most powerful don't like a leader of a weaker state, they find a way to destabilize his govt or depose him if they really want to. One has to deal with the current situation immediately, of course, but after that, the major powers of the world ought really to think about not interfering in the rest of the world's politics, even if that means some economic sacrifice, like not being able to count on the same amount of, now cheap, Middle East oil. Will that happen? I wonder.
Just like Saddam Hussein was. Just like the king of Bahrain is, or the president of Venezuela. What percent of Americans still believe that Barack Obama is not the legitimate president of the US? For two decades the communist rulers of China were not recognized as legitimate by the US and many other countries. What is legitimate seems to be in the eyes of the beholder. Salvador Allende was the legitimate leader of Chile, was he not, until the CIA deposed him? Right now, who is the legitimate leader of Libya, or, for that matter, Afghanistan, where the US still has troops? This is a major problem not just for us but for the world, not just now but for all time. When the most powerful don't like a leader of a weaker state, they find a way to destabilize his govt or depose him if they really want to. One has to deal with the current situation immediately, of course, but after that, the major powers of the world ought really to think about not interfering in the rest of the world's politics, even if that means some economic sacrifice, like not being able to count on the same amount of, now cheap, Middle East oil. Will that happen? I wonder.
3
A lot of the comments are in regard to the refugee crisis in Europe. Some screaming for no refugees, others pleading not to confuse the refugees with terrorists. The majority of if not 99.9% are simply that, refugees. What should be concerning is the fact that a majority are young men who you would think would want to rid their homeland of us or ISIS or the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Imagine what any Western countries men would do if faced with the same situation. Most likely we would stand our ground and fight, at least here in the US I'm sure, it's our homeland! The next disconcerting thing is that if you look at the Muslim culture and their beliefs you know there is little to no equality for women, even in the more affluent countries, yes it is slowly changing. The lax, or in the words of the Koran perverse, attitude of Western culture also is something that anyone who follows the Muslim beliefs is considered a sin of infidels. I'm not advocating closed boarders, and it's also a little late to even be having that conversation. They're human just like us so no one knows were there path may lead them, but I also can't help but think about the Boston bombing brothers. I don't have the answer and I don't believe in knee jerk reactions either. It's a conundrum that will be here for a while and hopefully not with last Friday's outcome.
4
Ah, so many simplistic solutions for such a complicated problem. In my view, the biggest travesty of W's war in Iraq was not the false selling of WMDs, but the misperception that we would be viewed as saviors by the Iraqi people and that they were salivating for implementation of democracy as we know it. We had no real exit plan if those two things didn't work out the way the chicken hawks presented them.
These same problems now present themselves, with even greater complexity. ISIS is not a U.S. problem, it is a World problem, and it is not restricted to a single country. The rest of the World including Russia may agree with that proposition. But clearly ISIS is not going to be defeated with bombs and missiles alone. Boots on the ground are going to be needed. What kind of ground forces do you piece together and how do you direct and coordinate them, particularly when Russia backs Assad in Syria and we think he is an obstacle and should be deposed. And, what constitutes victory against ISIS, and what happens then? Do we all leave and let what remains sort it out for themselves, or do we stay and try to impose peace among all the various factions? There is little chance Russia will see things the way we do.
These same problems now present themselves, with even greater complexity. ISIS is not a U.S. problem, it is a World problem, and it is not restricted to a single country. The rest of the World including Russia may agree with that proposition. But clearly ISIS is not going to be defeated with bombs and missiles alone. Boots on the ground are going to be needed. What kind of ground forces do you piece together and how do you direct and coordinate them, particularly when Russia backs Assad in Syria and we think he is an obstacle and should be deposed. And, what constitutes victory against ISIS, and what happens then? Do we all leave and let what remains sort it out for themselves, or do we stay and try to impose peace among all the various factions? There is little chance Russia will see things the way we do.
2
The world has a problem in all countries right now that carries a common denominator over the last 15 years,..... AFRICA?...whether it be country leaders or terrorists?
Why take any Muslim immigrants? We have 11 million undocumented hispanics, 99.99 % who has hard working and contributing to our society. Let's enable citizenship for these immigrants before taking in any Muslims.
17
How about we just stop entirely with the immigrants for awhile? We don't have the slightest clue about who is here, and the administration's claims that they can vet all these Muslims is just an outright lie. There should be an indefinite moratorium on all immigration.
13
Having a passport does not make a Belgian -- this is not a descendant of Siger of Brabant or Peter Paul Rubens--but it is indicative of the insane "open borders" policies in Europe and the United States. Interestingly, while this article tells us that the perpetrators are "Belgian citizens" and "French citizens," it mentions neither where they were born nor how long their families have been in Belgium or France.
5
Kind of like 'If you ain't WASP, you ain't American'?
1
We must understand the fundamental foundation of the Muslim religion is the tenet of slave and master. Men are the masters and women are the slaves. And men must also bang their forehead on the ground to the great Allah. That is why they, terrorist or not, can NEVER be fully integrated in a freedom loving society.
13
And yet the European leaders and our own president are welcoming them all in with open arms.
6
"We must understand the fundamental foundation of the Muslim religion is the tenet of slave and master."
I believe that concept originates from the Old Testament, and is widely practiced by ultra-orthodox Jews even today. And if we let them, the Huckabees of the world will push us in the same direction too. Gays today, women tomorrow!
I can't claim I have read any of the 3 books, but I know enough to know that if taken literally, all 3 books have their share of bigoted philosophies. The Old Testament, and probably the Koran justify genocide, slavery etc.
I believe that concept originates from the Old Testament, and is widely practiced by ultra-orthodox Jews even today. And if we let them, the Huckabees of the world will push us in the same direction too. Gays today, women tomorrow!
I can't claim I have read any of the 3 books, but I know enough to know that if taken literally, all 3 books have their share of bigoted philosophies. The Old Testament, and probably the Koran justify genocide, slavery etc.
2
"‘France Is at War,’ Hollande Says, Amid Hunt for Suspects"
Of course it is war. France has been bombing ISIS for over a year (in Iraq) and just a few weeks back, in September, began bombing ISIS in Syria.
While this is absolutely no excuse for the war crime of targeting civilians, let's at least understand that this war has been going on for a long time now. It did not start Friday.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
Of course it is war. France has been bombing ISIS for over a year (in Iraq) and just a few weeks back, in September, began bombing ISIS in Syria.
While this is absolutely no excuse for the war crime of targeting civilians, let's at least understand that this war has been going on for a long time now. It did not start Friday.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
7
We removed Saddam from power and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of Americans lives were lost. We removed Qaddafi and tens of thousands of Libyans and Africans were killed. We removed Mubarak and thousands of Egyptians were killed. We removed the Taliban and tens of thousands of Afghans were killed, along with several thousands Americans and Europeans. In our attempt to remove Assad, tens of thousands of Syrians were killed, along with hundreds of Russians and French.
We are Supporting the Saudis in trying to remove the Yemenis ( fighting Al Qaeda and ISIS) from their own country's government.
Perhaps we need to stop trying to remove other countries' government and many millions of lives will be saved.
We are Supporting the Saudis in trying to remove the Yemenis ( fighting Al Qaeda and ISIS) from their own country's government.
Perhaps we need to stop trying to remove other countries' government and many millions of lives will be saved.
6
The comments related to Obama bashing and "send the troops now" never state "I am going to enlist and go fight ISIS" or "I will tell my kids to enlist and go fight ISIS" instead they say "the troops" as if they are not even people - soldiers on our payroll. Pathetic
5
We certainly know an awful lot here. Evaluation of the current existing isis threat to the US with no deaths up to this point - vs approximately 35000 gun deaths and approximately 35000 highway deaths each year - yes we are in danger FROM OURSELVES. its always easy to call for boots on the ground as long as its someone else in the boots. How many different groups are actually involved in this quagmire besides isis - Russia - Iran - Iraq - Saudi Arabia - Turkey hezbollah - assad - anti assad (more than one) etc. and now France.
But lets rush in like Iraq and put brave American lives at risk to appease a bunch of chicken hawks and big mouths. No lets not.
But lets rush in like Iraq and put brave American lives at risk to appease a bunch of chicken hawks and big mouths. No lets not.
6
Now that weapons of mass destruction (explosives and repeat fire guns) are available world wide thanks to gun manufacturers, I don't see how you can stop crazed individuals or groups, be they unhappy students (USA) or unhappy muslims (middle east) or unhappy drug dealers (Mexico), from using them. You can declare war of isis or war on drugs or war on the mentally ill, but how do you stop their access to guns?
5
Take a leaf out of WWII, carpet bomb Raqqa and Mosul for one week straight non stop, flattening everything - nothing is to be left standing, except churches and mosques. Send in para troopers to occupy those cities and expel everyone except Christians that can prove they are Christians, turning them into French colonies. Motivational extra is for the French to send in Moroccan Goumiers giving them the same privileges provided by General Alphonse Juin during the Gustav Line Offensive in WWII. Build a massive wall Israeli style to control population flow around Raqqa and Mosul. Move on to the the next cities and repeat.
Hahahaha this will not happen because today's leaders are so weak.
Hahahaha this will not happen because today's leaders are so weak.
3
If only all religions were private affairs, or far quieter at least. Keep it quiet, y'all. The rest of us are trying to think.
8
Mr. Hollande is in quite a pickle isn't he? Trying to undo decades of political correctness with an ever-growing minority on the fringes of the middle class in the name of retribution. Unfortunately, I think Hollande will fail long term not because he doesn't personally have the will. The answer lies in the root cause of the 'terrorism.' Where is the 'terrorism' taught and by whom? Is it in the mosques and over the internet by economically disadvantaged youths combined with a porous and out-of-control immigration policy that allows more radicals to unite with these homegrown 'terrorists.' The lack of assimilation of minority groups to consider themselves Parisians and Frenchmen first is the larger issue. The left wing French politicians and those who elected him do not have the stomach for what would be required to fix the issue, thus they will be overtaken by a Muslim population in 30 years and France will be no more. Sad but true.
2
Well yes, France is at war and has been since it started dropping bombs on ISIS targets in Syria. Surely the French can't be surprised by this?
2
Bauie: Glad someone remembers this point. France started bombing Syria just a few weeks ago but as been bombing in Iraq for well over a year.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
The condolences from Islamic client states are overwhelming.
Those that originate and fund the madness, the Saudis and Emirates, have been just too too vocal.
ISIS isn't the problem, it's the symptom of the evil that is based on the Arabian Peninsula.
Those that originate and fund the madness, the Saudis and Emirates, have been just too too vocal.
ISIS isn't the problem, it's the symptom of the evil that is based on the Arabian Peninsula.
7
I dare say trying to tackle this very real and growing terrorism threat in Europe cannot be separated from their immigration policy and extremely irresponsible management of the migrant crisis. It is foolish to believe they will ever get a handle on this growing problem while they invite more of it in with no end in sight.
9
That's a question that no politician is willing to tackle, until some other (more) tragic incidents happen.
George W Bush redux. How does depriving people of civil rights solve anything? How does giving government unlimited rights to spy on citizens and residents add up to better intelligence? It hasn't worked here. It has hurt, stigmatized, and alienated many but it hasn't worked. The problem is that while we're fighting the current outbreaks ISIS or whatever organization replaces them is going ahead and thinking of new ways to function and disrupt our lives.
Perhaps we need to think of a better answer or we need to start looking at why this occurs and try to stop it at the roots rather than deciding that everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. I think Kafka wrote a book about it. Perhaps this should be required reading for all those who think that civil rights are to be taken away in order to protect the public. What happens is that everyone winds up being seen as a criminal and no one trusts anyone, least of all the people in a position to help. I say this as someone who has seen what 9/11 did to law enforcement in America.
Perhaps we need to think of a better answer or we need to start looking at why this occurs and try to stop it at the roots rather than deciding that everyone is guilty until proven otherwise. I think Kafka wrote a book about it. Perhaps this should be required reading for all those who think that civil rights are to be taken away in order to protect the public. What happens is that everyone winds up being seen as a criminal and no one trusts anyone, least of all the people in a position to help. I say this as someone who has seen what 9/11 did to law enforcement in America.
6
@hen3ry,
Lets wait and see what happens to France after 11/13. Since 9/11 I still have all my freedoms and civil rights. I doubt the government is spying directly on me, why would they? And except for the Boston bombers this country seems relativity safe from outside threats. Its the good old American crazies I sometimes worry about. I'm by no means going to slap Bush or Obama on their back and say "good job" but I'm not going to say they've hindered or stifled my life either.
Lets wait and see what happens to France after 11/13. Since 9/11 I still have all my freedoms and civil rights. I doubt the government is spying directly on me, why would they? And except for the Boston bombers this country seems relativity safe from outside threats. Its the good old American crazies I sometimes worry about. I'm by no means going to slap Bush or Obama on their back and say "good job" but I'm not going to say they've hindered or stifled my life either.
can we not call the terrorists Daesh in the media so as not to include Islam into the equation. Timothy McVeigh wasn't a Christian Terrorist, Red Brigade wasn't an Italian Catholic terrorist group. it would help segregate the band from the vast majority of Muslims who don't adhere to their policy. and it is an affront to them.
9
I'm with you. I would advocate removing any veneer of the 'holy' or 'good' that attaches to religion (for a moment, secular humanists, hear me out) so as to make it clear beyond doubt that these murderers are criminals, plain and simple and lethal. They have too long enjoyed some sort of cover in being portrayed as fundamentalists. Time for that to go.
Can someone explain to me how the authorities can already have identified the mastermind of an attack that they weren't aware of a mere four days ago? It just seems odd to me that they can so quickly and thoroughly "crack" a case they weren't even aware of a week ago.
It sounds either like they were aware of a potential attack and did nothing to prevent it, or more likely were aware of the individuals now swept up in police raids for other reasons and have used these attacks as the basis to sweep up all persons of suspicion for any tangentially related crimes as a way to assure the world they are "doing something".
It sounds either like they were aware of a potential attack and did nothing to prevent it, or more likely were aware of the individuals now swept up in police raids for other reasons and have used these attacks as the basis to sweep up all persons of suspicion for any tangentially related crimes as a way to assure the world they are "doing something".
3
"Mr. Hollande reiterated his determination to annihilate the Islamic State. 'France is at war.'”
As opposed to Mr. Obama…
His inadequate, but carefully measured, post-Paris statements, his post-Paris release of more Gitmo terrorists, his post-Paris determination to import tens of thousands of impossible-to-vet Syrian refugees: The ease with which this vainglorious man plays Russian roulette with our lives is disturbing.
Obama has disclosed his game plan: More of the same.
After the televised beheadings by ISIS, Obama was forced by public outrage to act.
He famously puffed: “We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL” and then proceeded, (rather expensively), to do neither. (I always thought the "ultimately" was a dead giveaway of his true intentions.)
Obama will do the same with Paris.
One caveat: A despot can do a lot of damage in 15 months and a deluded, increasingly irrelevant one blinded by his own imagined brilliance will.
As opposed to Mr. Obama…
His inadequate, but carefully measured, post-Paris statements, his post-Paris release of more Gitmo terrorists, his post-Paris determination to import tens of thousands of impossible-to-vet Syrian refugees: The ease with which this vainglorious man plays Russian roulette with our lives is disturbing.
Obama has disclosed his game plan: More of the same.
After the televised beheadings by ISIS, Obama was forced by public outrage to act.
He famously puffed: “We will degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL” and then proceeded, (rather expensively), to do neither. (I always thought the "ultimately" was a dead giveaway of his true intentions.)
Obama will do the same with Paris.
One caveat: A despot can do a lot of damage in 15 months and a deluded, increasingly irrelevant one blinded by his own imagined brilliance will.
4
I will give your readers extra points for not mentioning Bush. But not much.
“You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”
“You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”
Civilization and good will cannot be imposed.Islam is incompatible with both. France is a very good example of that: people, French citizens, who live to mass murder their fellow French citizens not ascribing to the murderers' set of beliefs.
Invoking the Holocaust victims is a bloody lie. The Jews of Europe did not flee a sectarian/civil war but, after hundreds of years together, were hunted down and mass murdered by their neighbors. And the Jewish refugees were turned away by the US. Keep that in mind, people.
Invoking the Holocaust victims is a bloody lie. The Jews of Europe did not flee a sectarian/civil war but, after hundreds of years together, were hunted down and mass murdered by their neighbors. And the Jewish refugees were turned away by the US. Keep that in mind, people.
5
I live in Alaska. You can be sure the one or two bear attacks a year will get front page headlines. Next follows a run on Smith and Wessons. Meanwhile the many people dying every day by not buckling their seat belts, smoking etc will go barely noticed. It's the same with terrorism. The only way terrorists have power is if we relinquish it to them. Take a few common sense precautions, otherwise ignore them.
8
Allowing so many undocumented immigrants into one's country is completely insane. Moreover, they have a long record of colonial brutality against Muslim countries. Now they have decided to allow undocumented immigrants in the door from places they bomb from the air. This is foolish. When Paris starts looking like Aleppo they will only have themselves to blame. And increased surveillance is coming, along with a loss of civil rights. If the waves of migrants were not allowed in this would not have happened. More attacks will come. It is all a disgrace and a failure. Hollande should resign.
3
Abdelhamid Abaaoud is a Moroccan who would describe himself as a citizen of the caliphate.
His Belgian papers were a ruse.
God speed to the security services in helping him obtain a most painful martyrdom.
His Belgian papers were a ruse.
God speed to the security services in helping him obtain a most painful martyrdom.
11
Obama's response is worse than lame. ISIS is not taking over cities in Yemen, or in Libya. We know that ISIS is a current and existing threat. We know that ISIS has stated that it intends to hit the U.S. next. But he's right, 50,000 boots on the ground won't do it. We need 200,000. And the same from the Russians, 50,000 from Iran, and 50,000 from France. Encircle ISIS and exterminate it. We created the Taliban, we caused Al-Quaida to be created, we caused ISIS to be created. It's time to clean up the mess.
3
Feel free to join up.
2
A few observations:
1. It's very easy to call for calm & urge restraint when terrorism takes place someplace other than home.
2. I have read reports that the terrorists utilized advanced encryption to disguise the coordination of their attacks. I wonder how that makes Snowden feel (probably emotionless) in his Russian "sanctuary." The privacy scolds need to wake up & realize they are really advocating yanking the lid off of Pandora's box by protesting our governments ability to mitigate strong encryption.
1. It's very easy to call for calm & urge restraint when terrorism takes place someplace other than home.
2. I have read reports that the terrorists utilized advanced encryption to disguise the coordination of their attacks. I wonder how that makes Snowden feel (probably emotionless) in his Russian "sanctuary." The privacy scolds need to wake up & realize they are really advocating yanking the lid off of Pandora's box by protesting our governments ability to mitigate strong encryption.
2
Completely disagree. You don’t throw out Constitutionally protected rights to get your guys. It’s too large a price tag and you are no longer protecting a democracy if you do. The Patriot Act came close to wiping out the 4th Amendment. Not cool, at all. Snowden didn’t run to a Russian sanctuary -- really can’t stand it when people manipulate the narrative. Go back and look at what happened.
2
The shame of all of this is that Republicans are attacking President Obama during wartime for the terrorist attack on Paris. I don't recall Democrats attacking Bush Jr for being asleep at the wheel for 9 11 or when he committed a war crime with his invasion of Iraq.
4
No shame in it whatsoever. "Liberals" -- who are anything but -- have either blamed the prior administration or shouted down as racist any criticism of the Obama administration. With this outbreak of global violence, those pretenses must give way.
1
The issuing of legal search warrants for homes of suspected radicalized Islamists is a good way to find arms caches and hopefully prevent future disasters in France. I would like to see this happen in the U.S. as well, when legally justified.
6
Thanks, but I like the Bill of Rights better. The Fourth Amendment, don't you know.
3
If Islamists maintain their old patterns, we would also profit by searching mosques. In Iraq they were the go-to spot to hide rifles, mortars, grenade launchers, and the occasional hostage.
3
@Here
What part of "when legally justified" did you not understand?
What part of "when legally justified" did you not understand?
1
Wow. I am suddenly facing my own deeply rooted objections to anything akin to "broader surveillance powers" and "without a warrant". Those are never ever good ideas. And yet.
What did the generations before us do, re: not tossing their Constitution(s)? I agree, a good stiff drink and a few outstanding minds are needed to get all democracies out of this collective global mess without destroying their raison d'etre.
What did the generations before us do, re: not tossing their Constitution(s)? I agree, a good stiff drink and a few outstanding minds are needed to get all democracies out of this collective global mess without destroying their raison d'etre.
1
We do not disavow and destroy who we are to save ourselves. What we all do under pressure determines character. Jettison who you are, and you fight to save who you WERE. An empty ideal.
We shouldn't change our values to fit our fears.
The Bill of Rights was written in a time when the fledgling USA had been at war with the world's only Super Power. The framers knew there were dangers in the world. And the Bill of Rights has no asterisks. If they could handle it with the rights they had, we can handle it with the same rights. Or we cease to be The United States of America.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
We shouldn't change our values to fit our fears.
The Bill of Rights was written in a time when the fledgling USA had been at war with the world's only Super Power. The framers knew there were dangers in the world. And the Bill of Rights has no asterisks. If they could handle it with the rights they had, we can handle it with the same rights. Or we cease to be The United States of America.
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
1
Rev - exactly. It’s not going to help France to go through their own version of the Patriot Act....
If a "war" is declared it legitimatizes isil and conveys upon them that which they most desire, legal statehood. Best to treat them as the vile murderous criminal cabal they are.
3
Yes, France is at war. Hollande scoffed at Netanyahu's remarks about ISIS, and now the French president is eating his words with a fork and spoon.
I haven't one bigoted bone in my body, but I am not comfortable with the idea of letting these Syrian refugees into Europe and the U.S. Let the U.N. put pressure on Arab countries to absorb them and to help drive out ISIS. The Syrians' language and culture is far more similar to those of the Arabs, not of Americans, French, Germans, or Scandinavians. I feel for the innocent Syrians, but I know that they are also being exploited and I don't want to chance terrorists coming in with fake claims and fake passports. Oh, that's just what happened and look at Paris now.
I haven't one bigoted bone in my body, but I am not comfortable with the idea of letting these Syrian refugees into Europe and the U.S. Let the U.N. put pressure on Arab countries to absorb them and to help drive out ISIS. The Syrians' language and culture is far more similar to those of the Arabs, not of Americans, French, Germans, or Scandinavians. I feel for the innocent Syrians, but I know that they are also being exploited and I don't want to chance terrorists coming in with fake claims and fake passports. Oh, that's just what happened and look at Paris now.
13
"France and those who follow its path must know that they remain the principle targets of the Islamic State. This attack is just the start of a storm and a warning for those who wish to draw lessons."
But there are still naive people who truly believe ISIS is not at war with our civilisation. We must eradicate ISIS, we must eradicate Boko Aram, we must eradicate AQIM.... because they made it clear, their ultimate goal is to eradicate us.
But there are still naive people who truly believe ISIS is not at war with our civilisation. We must eradicate ISIS, we must eradicate Boko Aram, we must eradicate AQIM.... because they made it clear, their ultimate goal is to eradicate us.
3
Here we go again, another one wanting to eradicate ISIS! Why is it that for some political points Mr Hollande is clearly talking nonsense. How can anyone eradicate ISIS? No one can. Has the "omnipotent" USA along with its puppet allies eradicated Al Qaeda? No. They have not. Instead they have bankrupted their countries. Is USA ever going to pay those debts? NO, it cannot. A single individual who has revenge in his mind is going to inflict harm onto you if you have hurt him by killing someone of his family...or whatever. Then that single person is either ISIS or Al Qaeda. Mr. HOLLANDE, you cannot eradicate ISIS. Calmez-vous!
Albeit what happened in Paris is sad, it is something that we dish out to them daily. Yep! DAILY and have been for 20+ years. Now, that is a long time. I am sure some kids there think that getting bombed is quite normal, and fear fast flying planes that bring with them death. Parisians want to dance in a night club and drink coffee that was probably grown somewhere in Africa, yes good coffee comes from there and not just from Colombia. However, Parisians have no idea what their government along with USA and even Australia are doing in Middle East so Parisians can have all this fun and forget themselves in these crowds.
This incident should be seen by EVERYONE here as how they suffer because of us.
Albeit what happened in Paris is sad, it is something that we dish out to them daily. Yep! DAILY and have been for 20+ years. Now, that is a long time. I am sure some kids there think that getting bombed is quite normal, and fear fast flying planes that bring with them death. Parisians want to dance in a night club and drink coffee that was probably grown somewhere in Africa, yes good coffee comes from there and not just from Colombia. However, Parisians have no idea what their government along with USA and even Australia are doing in Middle East so Parisians can have all this fun and forget themselves in these crowds.
This incident should be seen by EVERYONE here as how they suffer because of us.
2
Gimme a break!
6
Excuse me but the suffering in ME is not entirely because of the West. What US contributed is like a fine layer of dirt on a mountain of factors causing the misery in ME.
They (ok the elites there) squander billions and billions of oil money.
They can't elect legitimate leaders.
They can't root out corruption.
The list goes on.
They (ok the elites there) squander billions and billions of oil money.
They can't elect legitimate leaders.
They can't root out corruption.
The list goes on.
2
I wonder how long will it take for this rubbish to appear. Of course it is always so easy to put the blame on France, USA you name others. This is not much more than a nasty version of the centuries old fight between Catholics and Protestants. Sunnis and Shias among them have managed to kill many more fellow Muslims than anything the "West" ever did. The fight between the bizarre KIngdom of Saudi Arabia+other Gulf States sponsors on one side, and Iran on the other. Add to that mix many merchants of hate/death masqueraded as Mullahs indoctrinating youth to also kill the infidel, and you have a deadly brew. The Muslim community, will, hopefully sort this out--they are the only ones who can do it--so far there seems to be a "silent majority" that is letting things just go on. Of course , selling billon + of arms to the birthplace of the most evil interpretation of Islam, the Saudi Kingdom, doesn't help much. But it seems to serve the US strategy of counterbalancing Iran. Get out of that business, let them sort it out. Take out the ISIL and put a stop to those who actually fund them--you know who they are.
1
I applaude President Hollande for his decisive and aggressive response to these attacks. Only such an unequivocal and quick response can defeat these cowardly bullies.
4
To eradicate ISIS it is necessary to cut off their funding which comes from the generally oppressive governments in the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia. The close ties between the Saudi royal family and US economic interests (notably the Bush family) and extensive commercial ties with the Gulf States make it impossible for the US to do this. Maybe the French can act independently and uncover who is funding this group and bring them to justice. Or maybe not in the Corporatist multi-national world of today.
4
The Saudis are more afraid of ISIS than we are. Why do you think they carpet bombed Aden?
Really? The french completely failed in managing available information that may have prevented this attack. They had 8 really bad guys with guns. Really? We have 8 bad guys with guns every couple of months shooting up churches, movie theaters and schools. Nobody invades anybody. Everybody should in the immortal words of Aaron Rodgers, RELAX. ISIS will disappear in time. Obama's measured response is entirely appropriate. France and Belgium need to get to work upgrading their internal intelligence.
96
ISIS will disappear in time? Have you read the news lately? Have you seen a map of the territory they control or over which they wield influence?
1
Hitler was just a phase as well, and Chamberlain was very proud of having negotiated "Peace in our time". Quite frankly, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. [paraphrased from George Santyana]
Rz,
it is not rationale to compare eight mentally ill loners acting separately in the US to 8 or more shooters and bombers acting in concert in the streets of Paris.
Obama's 'measured response' already includes many of the actions you think are signs of over-reaction by Hollande. The bombing by the French in Raqqa almost certainly were targets developed by the US and the 8000 bombs dropped by the US are part of the measured response that France is now using as a yard stick.
Obama's response would be even more intense if the Charlie Hebdo attack had happened in NYC at one of our humor institutions like Saturday Night Live or John Stewart's (then) show. And imagine then another attack ten months later in NYC again? By such a measure we can see Hollande's response as quite measured thus far.
it is not rationale to compare eight mentally ill loners acting separately in the US to 8 or more shooters and bombers acting in concert in the streets of Paris.
Obama's 'measured response' already includes many of the actions you think are signs of over-reaction by Hollande. The bombing by the French in Raqqa almost certainly were targets developed by the US and the 8000 bombs dropped by the US are part of the measured response that France is now using as a yard stick.
Obama's response would be even more intense if the Charlie Hebdo attack had happened in NYC at one of our humor institutions like Saturday Night Live or John Stewart's (then) show. And imagine then another attack ten months later in NYC again? By such a measure we can see Hollande's response as quite measured thus far.
The French President is asking the parliament to amend the Constitution to extend his powers and grant him extraordinary measures to search, arrest and detain without warrants; extend state of emergency... Hmmm....reminds me of a scene from V for Vendetta.
3
At one time, we promised the Europeans freedom. It would be worse than dishonorable to have them lose it. This might mean war with the barbarians, but what of it?
3
Shame on all of you who react precipitously and to garner praise or position. President Obama is proving to be a steady and thoughtful leader.
The Presidential candidates are following the story instead of leading a campaign. J.E.Bush is a disgrace for carrying on the family tradition of pandering to Christians to get votes. Trump is a jerk for proposing shutting down Mosques. C.I.A. Director Brennan obviously Arranged his speech to try to win new powers on the deaths of innocents. The Leader of the Republican party attacked Obama trying to start a lynch mob of Republicans to do the same, attacking fellow Americans.
Everything ISIS does is psychological. I'm sure they used the flood of refugees to stop the exodus of their victims. ISIS is trying to disturb the world. The very purpose of Terrorism is to instill Terror and fear, and it worked.
Thank God Obama is President to keep us from irrationality and forward on a thoughtful deliberate path.
The Presidential candidates are following the story instead of leading a campaign. J.E.Bush is a disgrace for carrying on the family tradition of pandering to Christians to get votes. Trump is a jerk for proposing shutting down Mosques. C.I.A. Director Brennan obviously Arranged his speech to try to win new powers on the deaths of innocents. The Leader of the Republican party attacked Obama trying to start a lynch mob of Republicans to do the same, attacking fellow Americans.
Everything ISIS does is psychological. I'm sure they used the flood of refugees to stop the exodus of their victims. ISIS is trying to disturb the world. The very purpose of Terrorism is to instill Terror and fear, and it worked.
Thank God Obama is President to keep us from irrationality and forward on a thoughtful deliberate path.
3
BTW - all those GOP governors who want to block Syrian refugees from their state, what happens when the refugees settle in another state and move or travel to your state? Internal border controls? Canada still plans to accept 25000 refugees, should we block Canadians? Given that most of the terrorists were Belgian or French citizens lets keep them out too.
I don't think many Syrians were thinking of a future in Arkansas - which BTW tried to stop settlement of Mariel refugees in the late 1970s. Great track record Arkansas.
The GOP fear mongering is over the top right now. Maybe they want us to forget the GOP ignorance that led to 9-11 and the war in Afghanistan.
I don't think many Syrians were thinking of a future in Arkansas - which BTW tried to stop settlement of Mariel refugees in the late 1970s. Great track record Arkansas.
The GOP fear mongering is over the top right now. Maybe they want us to forget the GOP ignorance that led to 9-11 and the war in Afghanistan.
3
Dear Mr President,<br/><br/>Although President Hollande has stepped up airstrikes against Syria, I think this is a disastrous move that will only inflame more suicide bombers all around the world. Killing just breeds more killing. The cycle of violence is now at a very critical juncture, and to avoid many more incidents such as 9/11 in New York and 11/13 in Paris, I believe the airstrikes and other military actions by the Western powers must immediately cease in the Middle East. The West has never belonged in the Middle East, and it does not belong there now: the West is highly resented there.<br/><br/>Please, Mr Obama, as one of our most intelligent Presidents in recent decades, please try to restrain our Western allies from more military action. Their hurt and anger over the Paris attacks is understandable and we are all in deep sympathy for Paris, but now it is important to take a strategy not of vengeance and retaliation, but rather a strategy that will really, truly END the violence in that poor, war-ravaged, rubble-filled Middle East and the violence world-wide that is stemming from it.
3
I, an elderly anti-war (Vietnam and Iraq) protester, stand with French President Francoise Hollande that "France is at war." It is time for NATO to join M. Hollande and openly declare the ISIS-led and planned attacks in Paris as "an act of war." Let's be honest: the U.S., France, England and recently Russia, are all already at war with ISIS. But, the nuanced, and I believe now out-dated, Obama Administration "incremental" policy of "no boots on the ground" means a long-protracted war with a now much greater risk of many more Paris-like attacks in the West while ISIS has time to expand, as it is now attempting, in Libya, Yemen, Afghanistan, and perhaps (our worst nightmare) Pakistan with its nuclear arsenal. President Obama's hesitation to rally behind France only guarantees that such attacks from many places will occur. It's time to join France and put an end to this now with NATO boots on the ground to take-out ISIS in its home base in Syria, end the Syrian civil war and the refugee crisis and controversy it has spawned. It will be, for all the current hand-wringing, much easier now then later when we we'll likely be facing a truly Hydra-headed, much stronger, multinational ISIS that may have nuclear arms. This, I believe, is not succumbing to "terror" and the fear it generates, but an honest assessment of the actual threat behind the fear and acting prudently to excise this latest fascist-like cancer before it metastasizes.
4
France president Mr. Hollande called for quick action by the Parliament on new legislation that would give the government more flexibility to conduct police raids without a warrant and place people under house arrest. He said he would seek court approval for broader surveillance powers. And he called for constitutional amendments that would give more weight to security measures relative to civil liberties. The changes he is seeking would, among other things, extend the current state of emergency for three months and let the government strip the citizenship of French natives who are convicted of terrorism and hold a second passport. France is capable to response this barbaric of ISIS by consistent attack roping to both US and Russia, which can break the backbone of terrorist outfit, for inside sleeper cells, it also good move that if court established the involved of individual, his citizenship neutralise and deported to origin nation to he belonged. These are some measures may proved the result, only not France but world body UN have to take such unpopular step to send deterrent message to those abetted and sponsor insurgent outfits.
Hollande is entirely correct to invoke war powers to legally strip disloyal Frenchmen of their citizenship. Since the earliest days of the American Republic those fighting for foreign powers have lost their citzenship. Long past time to do the same for disloyal Americans and some, if not all American mercenaries.
7
About 140 people got killed in France by gun violence. Over 30,000 people a year get killed by gun violence in the United States of America. We have our own war to fight here at home. More important than Syria right now. And I don't think it's Muslims killing fellow Americans, or Jews or Hindu people.
5
I listened to the speech of Hollande in its entirety on streaming when he was delivering it and his use of the word "war" is both a symbolic striking effect and a political tool to initiate procedures to amend the constitution that require approval from the Conseil Constitutionnel and other measures that requires vote from the Parliament. He stressed that it was not the same type of war than in the past so I think we need to cut him - for now - a bit of slack before rushing to conclusions and parallel with the invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan. It can also allow procedure to revoke citizenship and expedite expulsion of undesirable imams who have been instrumental for recruiting French Jihadists. What baffles me is that in January we had a serious terrorist attack against Charlie and the Jewish market and that the entire country marched (I was there) and the politics promised an extra enforcement of security but that it seems that communication between the Belgian Ministère de l'Interieur and France failed to screen effectively the cells in Mollenbeek from where several Jihadists came from recently - to the point that on Saturday morning after the attacks the eighth terrorist and suspect at large who was escaping Paris was stopped by French Police on the Highway for speeding (no surprise he was in a bit of a rush) but let go because he was not "in the system". I am in NY but my mind and heart are in Paris.
1
I watched the NYT video of the uninvolved Abdeslam brother and was impressed by how calm and articulate he was, especially after apparently being detained for many hours (or days) before release today. Is anything more known about him-- like what he does for a living? Thought he was very well-spoken, certainly more so than would have expected an American in comparable situation to be.
2
Val in Brooklyn, NY
"When I despair, I remember that all throughout history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible but in the end, they always fall--think of it--always."
----The Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Submitted 11-16-15@6:24 p.m. EST
"When I despair, I remember that all throughout history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible but in the end, they always fall--think of it--always."
----The Mahatma, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
Submitted 11-16-15@6:24 p.m. EST
1
yes, but there are always new tyrants and murderers to take their p[lace
Val in Brooklyn, NY to thx1138
So, we add fuel to the fire to make sure it's perpetual?
Yesterday, I replied to a French man's comment. He wished everyone would rethink more violence because it's exactly what these people want. More bloodshed, more bodies. He wanted a "wiser" approach. Such a clear headed response from a man who's country we're speaking of, stood out, resonated and I agree w/ him. And, since at least 1 person recommended my Gandhi quote, it seems we're not alone in our view(s).
In contrast, your reply is the painfully predictable and counterproductive response I'd hoped NOT to see. If the Lebanese embassy in Manhattan permits it, I'll w/flowers to pay my respects--with my hair covered. And no, I'm not Muslim--though it shouldn't matter. I worship Bambi & hug trees. The NYT reported that Lebanon feels ignored, at least by the press. While I'm not the press, I'm just a regular person, but I can do that, at least.
Why not review Gandhi's words on the transcendent results of nonviolence as THE active force on mkgandhi.org? Surely you recall that his accomplishment aided by Nehru, etc., was incalculable. There's a reason he's called the Mahatma.
I say w/out sarcasm, peace be with you and everyone.
Submitted 11-16-15@11:57 p.m. EST
So, we add fuel to the fire to make sure it's perpetual?
Yesterday, I replied to a French man's comment. He wished everyone would rethink more violence because it's exactly what these people want. More bloodshed, more bodies. He wanted a "wiser" approach. Such a clear headed response from a man who's country we're speaking of, stood out, resonated and I agree w/ him. And, since at least 1 person recommended my Gandhi quote, it seems we're not alone in our view(s).
In contrast, your reply is the painfully predictable and counterproductive response I'd hoped NOT to see. If the Lebanese embassy in Manhattan permits it, I'll w/flowers to pay my respects--with my hair covered. And no, I'm not Muslim--though it shouldn't matter. I worship Bambi & hug trees. The NYT reported that Lebanon feels ignored, at least by the press. While I'm not the press, I'm just a regular person, but I can do that, at least.
Why not review Gandhi's words on the transcendent results of nonviolence as THE active force on mkgandhi.org? Surely you recall that his accomplishment aided by Nehru, etc., was incalculable. There's a reason he's called the Mahatma.
I say w/out sarcasm, peace be with you and everyone.
Submitted 11-16-15@11:57 p.m. EST
When will the civilized world finally realize that radical Islam is already at war. We are like sheep being plucked from the heard by wolves. Nothing will change until the civilized world puts down the latte' and the NYT and brings the fight to ISIS. We crippled al-Qaede through sustained, coordinated attacks. It needs to be done with ISIS.
4
Does the online version of the NYT count?
"By attacking a powerless, disenfranchised minority with crude, vulgar drawings closer to graffiti than cartoons,” GaryTrudeau said, “Charlie wandered into the realm of hate speech.”
Remember all the apologists for the terrorists who attacked Charlie Hebdo and the kosher grocery store. Maybe the diners at the restaurant ordered wine with dinner and that offended Muslim sensibilities and the concert goers listened to blasphemous lyrics. The terrorists must have had a reason to commit mass murder-right?
Remember all the apologists for the terrorists who attacked Charlie Hebdo and the kosher grocery store. Maybe the diners at the restaurant ordered wine with dinner and that offended Muslim sensibilities and the concert goers listened to blasphemous lyrics. The terrorists must have had a reason to commit mass murder-right?
12
First of all, Trudeau walked away from that comment. Secondly, I don't remember anyone siding with the terrorists.
Being born in Belgium does not make this cutthroat a Belgian, anymore than say if I was born in China to missionary parents does not make me a Chinese. Or a Belgian born in the old Belgian Congo does not make that Belgian Black or a Congolese. A Japanese born to the Japanese ambassador in Washington is not an American either, but a Japanese. This terrorist had Belgian nationality but was not ethnically a Belgian. Native Belgians are Caucasians and are either Flemings or Walloons. They speak either a Dutch or French dialect and most are nominal Roman Catholics. You need to clarify and correct in advance your reporters' claims before printing them. This man is clearly of some sort of mixed Middle Eastern extraction by his dress and countenance and definitely not a Belgian. He was merely born in Belgium to immigrant parents and brought up in a Third World enclave community to be a radical Arab Moslem not a Christian Belgian. The media is misleading the public with these type of stories and headlines into believing actual native born Europeans whose families have lived there for generations are joining these Islamist terrorists by identifying these thugs wrongly as "Belgian" or "Frenchmen" when they are aliens either merely born in or living in Europe.. Maybe your reporters and editors need to take some classes in geography, history and ethnology, as well as biology, so they can get facts straight before they fire off propaganda stories to alarm, misinform and inflame the public.
3
France invaded Syria back in 1920 to crush the last edition of the Kingdom of Greater Syria. The kingdom is back now under leadership of grandson of former king. France is now paying for their unjust invasion of Syria in 1920.
KINGDOM GREATER SYRIA, government-in-exile
KINGDOM GREATER SYRIA, government-in-exile
Reading the comments shows ISI has accomplished its goal with the Paris attacks. That is to create terror, disunity and cause a foolish and ineffective response from the enemy. Rather than getting all "Rambo" and sending an invasion force the Western countries should work together to create an effective coordinated response. They should also involve Russian forces where appropriate considering ISIS downed a Russian airliner. This should involve both air strikes and drone strikes. The leadership of ISIS should be hunted down. Bring terror to its followers and friends.
6
There's going to come a time when we as humans become desensitized by all this depraved, meaningless violence. Then that will be the end of all goodness. We are getting there sooner than we want, may god help us.
3
It may be useful to take a historical viewpoint. As horrific as this event was, terrorizing wide swathes of the civilian population during much of history was the norm. Attila the Hun comes quickly to mind, but there are many, many more like him.
Have no fear. According to France and the EU, the world's biggest problem is Israel. And after all the bruhaha about ISIS dissipates, they will get back to their obsession with Israel.
14
Just one quibble. France and the EU tell us the world's biggest problem is the weather.
4
Does anyone think that it's the height of past and present policy gone wrong that this fighter is standing next to an American made Humvee with a black ISIL flag on the back? And why are American made Kalashnikovs being used in Paris?
I think it's deplorable that America ships and has shipped weapons overseas to help nebulous allies fight nebulous enemies. We are fighting a war against weapons that we left unattended at the fall of Baghdad during the second gulf war.
Why is the media not talking about this? How long are we going to continue to arm people that then either become defeated and relinquish their weapons or turn against us?
How are we surprised that ISIL exists when we left a half million man army disbanded in Iraq and unpaid with many square miles of weapons unattended to at their disposal? Why, Mr. Bush, did we not explode those weapons when we easily could have?
It is tragic that is happening, but it should be no surprise to anyone. Especially the NY Times. I can only believe, in the end, that there was some kind of deliberate desire on the part of policy makers of the previous administration for conflict. Otherwise a few well placed bombs would have certainly destroyed the myriad weapons - and Humvees - that are now being used in the terror attacks in Europe, the middle east and against countless civilians in Iraq, Syria.
I think it's deplorable that America ships and has shipped weapons overseas to help nebulous allies fight nebulous enemies. We are fighting a war against weapons that we left unattended at the fall of Baghdad during the second gulf war.
Why is the media not talking about this? How long are we going to continue to arm people that then either become defeated and relinquish their weapons or turn against us?
How are we surprised that ISIL exists when we left a half million man army disbanded in Iraq and unpaid with many square miles of weapons unattended to at their disposal? Why, Mr. Bush, did we not explode those weapons when we easily could have?
It is tragic that is happening, but it should be no surprise to anyone. Especially the NY Times. I can only believe, in the end, that there was some kind of deliberate desire on the part of policy makers of the previous administration for conflict. Otherwise a few well placed bombs would have certainly destroyed the myriad weapons - and Humvees - that are now being used in the terror attacks in Europe, the middle east and against countless civilians in Iraq, Syria.
3
I could be mistaken, but I don't believe American arms manufacturers make Kalishnakovs. AK-47s are widely available from multiple channels from Russia and China, and could have been taken from Syrian forces, or supplied via Pakistan or Gulf States opposed to Bashar al-Assad's government or sympathetic to jihadist groups fighting within Syria.
2
Somebody give Bentley a time machine so he can go back a couple years and take all the weaponry away from the Iraqis before they dropped everything and ran away from ISIS at the first hint of battle.
1
The killings in Paris were just a "setback" according to Obama.
Declaring that “France is at war,” he said the attacks had been “planned in Syria, organized in Belgium, perpetrated on our soil with French complicity.”
"The terrible events in Paris were obviously a terrible and sickening setback," Obama said today in Turkey.
Declaring that “France is at war,” he said the attacks had been “planned in Syria, organized in Belgium, perpetrated on our soil with French complicity.”
"The terrible events in Paris were obviously a terrible and sickening setback," Obama said today in Turkey.
1
If France is at war, the states are leading from behind and look like cowards. Tough talking when sending sons and daughters abroad, when it is time to show true humanitarian courage and inspire the world, seventeen so far are quaking in their boots, hiding behind their bellicose rhetoric when tails quicker than a two seam curve ball when it's their turn to go to bat. These governors are a national embarrassment, confusing shame for prudence--no good Samaritans among them despite their erroneous belief that America is a Christian nation.
3
I thought Walt was beating up on our absent allies in the war of terror before I realized he was just attacking his political enemies again. again. and again.
1
No attacks! Just the facts! Always! If you dispute it, disprove it!
He described Syria as “the biggest factory of terrorists the world has ever known” -- Actually, way back in 2005 the CIA identified Iraq "as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists", saying Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills...There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html
3
Syria is the biggest factory of terrorists? Not the banlieues of France where the imported African and middle Eastern workers have festered for three generations of unrelenting racism as national policy?
The only good thing about Hollande's saber-rattling is it leaves thendirty work in Syria to him and Putin. Good. We have done our share.
The only good thing about Hollande's saber-rattling is it leaves thendirty work in Syria to him and Putin. Good. We have done our share.
2
"three generations of unrelenting racism as national policy"
Sigh....
Obviously you didn't spend much time in France... While racism do exist in France as everywhere else, it has NEVER been a "national policy" quite the reverse actually.
As for the level of racism in France, it pales in comparison to the deep seated, internalized racism that the US has been struggling with since it's birth : From the genocidal policies towards the Native Americans, the enslavement then institutionalized segregation of black people until barely fifty years ago.
And now a candidate for the highest office of the US can go on record and tell that Mexican immigrant are mostly rapist and drug dealers, and he is actually REWARDED with a huge boost in the polls....
So please, as far as France is concerned refrain from lecturing on the evils of racism, coming from a US citizen (I surmise), this is the mother of all "pots calling the kettle black"....
Sigh....
Obviously you didn't spend much time in France... While racism do exist in France as everywhere else, it has NEVER been a "national policy" quite the reverse actually.
As for the level of racism in France, it pales in comparison to the deep seated, internalized racism that the US has been struggling with since it's birth : From the genocidal policies towards the Native Americans, the enslavement then institutionalized segregation of black people until barely fifty years ago.
And now a candidate for the highest office of the US can go on record and tell that Mexican immigrant are mostly rapist and drug dealers, and he is actually REWARDED with a huge boost in the polls....
So please, as far as France is concerned refrain from lecturing on the evils of racism, coming from a US citizen (I surmise), this is the mother of all "pots calling the kettle black"....
4
Shortsighted, specious and false.
2
Earlier today, Mr. Krugman took FDR's famous line, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." Out of context and some of the comments about ISIS make the same mistake. FDR was talking about being too scared to speak about ECONOMIC trouble facing the U.S. In fact, a moment after the phrase about fear he notes that the U.S.'s problems at the time were, "thank God, MATERIAL ONES." That was NOT, however, his approach to physical attacks on the nation. Here is what he had to say on that subject:
"It would be unworthy of a great Nation to exaggerate an ISOLATED incident, or to become inflamed by some ONE act of violence. But it would be inexcusable folly to minimize such incidents in the face of evidence which makes it clear that the incident is NOT isolated, BUT IS PART OF A GENERAL PLAN. The important truth is that these acts of international lawlessness are a manifestation of a design which has been made clear to the American people for a long time." ~ SEPTEMBER 11, 1941 (irony anyone?)
How is it that so many quote FDR out of context? The man was speaking about being too scared to admit the markets need regulation and that countries must be honest in facing up to their domestic challenges. Yet, not one word about FDR's thoughts following an attack. Yes, a single isolated incident may not justify physical retaliation on a nation scale, but how could anyone claim that what happened in France (AGAIN) is not part of an international pattern?
"It would be unworthy of a great Nation to exaggerate an ISOLATED incident, or to become inflamed by some ONE act of violence. But it would be inexcusable folly to minimize such incidents in the face of evidence which makes it clear that the incident is NOT isolated, BUT IS PART OF A GENERAL PLAN. The important truth is that these acts of international lawlessness are a manifestation of a design which has been made clear to the American people for a long time." ~ SEPTEMBER 11, 1941 (irony anyone?)
How is it that so many quote FDR out of context? The man was speaking about being too scared to admit the markets need regulation and that countries must be honest in facing up to their domestic challenges. Yet, not one word about FDR's thoughts following an attack. Yes, a single isolated incident may not justify physical retaliation on a nation scale, but how could anyone claim that what happened in France (AGAIN) is not part of an international pattern?
5
There has to be a balance between accepting Syrian refugees and committing to rigorous background checks. It's unfair to call those of us feel unease and who urge caution to be overreacting or callous or anti-muslim. 10,000 people who could be anybody, and who are, according to our most ruthless enemy right now, infiltrated by ISIS fighters, are going to be settled here. I think what worries people are the logistics of checking their background. It would be nice to fill us in on how this is supposed to be accomplished. Certainly nobody is going to be able to keep track of all of them, even if that man power were available which it isn't. And even if they did have the manpower, there still has to be the ability and willingness to put two and two together. If memory serves, the Boston bombers were singled out to the FBI by the Russians and they still shrugged them off and declared the Tshernaiev brothers harmless. Sorry but my confidence that we will be protected is somewhat fragile right now.
Needless to say, just as with calls to arms, the ones doing the ordering rarely tend to have any skin in the game to use a phrase they all like to use. None of them go to fight, and none of them will be around when somebody starts running amok. They'll be miles away surrounded by their secret service agents.
Needless to say, just as with calls to arms, the ones doing the ordering rarely tend to have any skin in the game to use a phrase they all like to use. None of them go to fight, and none of them will be around when somebody starts running amok. They'll be miles away surrounded by their secret service agents.
9
I'm not anti-Muslim, I'm anti-terrorist. Why take ANY refugees? Where is the law that we MUST take these people? Why isn't national security the FIRST priority for the president of the United States? He is not the president of the world although he probably thinks he is.
4
Know the enemy, a self-styled Islamic State that fulfills their prophecy and lends authority to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. We're not facing half-measures or equivocation so hand-wringing from the White House is misplaced.
"Let’s assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into Syria...What happens when there’s a terrorist attack generated from Yemen? Do we then send troops into there? Or Libya, perhaps?”
His hypothetical question, when Mr. Brennan's “association of murderous sociopaths” needs to surrender their territorial gains completely is not constructive.
“The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on.” - U.S. Grant
A coalition is needed, a multi-national force of +/- 250,000 to defeat an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 IS combatants. Preliminary agreements are vital, with items like a suspension of hostilities between Turks and Kurds, and a plan that deals with the conflicting aims that divide the Saudis and Iran. US-aligned and Russia-aligned forces need an operational framework, a “pincer movement” or “hammer and anvil” battle plan gives shape to that. The coalition needs legitimacy with limited involvement of US and Russian ground troops. The Turks and/or Kurds should comprise the bulk of the force, with significant forces from France/NATO and the Arab League. A larger manpower requirement is then needed to administer and reconstruct recaptured territory.
"Let’s assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into Syria...What happens when there’s a terrorist attack generated from Yemen? Do we then send troops into there? Or Libya, perhaps?”
His hypothetical question, when Mr. Brennan's “association of murderous sociopaths” needs to surrender their territorial gains completely is not constructive.
“The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving on.” - U.S. Grant
A coalition is needed, a multi-national force of +/- 250,000 to defeat an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 IS combatants. Preliminary agreements are vital, with items like a suspension of hostilities between Turks and Kurds, and a plan that deals with the conflicting aims that divide the Saudis and Iran. US-aligned and Russia-aligned forces need an operational framework, a “pincer movement” or “hammer and anvil” battle plan gives shape to that. The coalition needs legitimacy with limited involvement of US and Russian ground troops. The Turks and/or Kurds should comprise the bulk of the force, with significant forces from France/NATO and the Arab League. A larger manpower requirement is then needed to administer and reconstruct recaptured territory.
2
Dear NYT:
Please don't use the word Architect to describe this awful behavior. As a licensed professional in my state it makes me feel terrible when I see the profession that I love used to describe destructive behavior. These cowardly acts are the product of sick people with no regards for life. This is exactly the opposite of what we do every day in our profession. Perhaps "master mind" may be more appropriate. Regards, CJ Melendez - Fort Lauderdale
Please don't use the word Architect to describe this awful behavior. As a licensed professional in my state it makes me feel terrible when I see the profession that I love used to describe destructive behavior. These cowardly acts are the product of sick people with no regards for life. This is exactly the opposite of what we do every day in our profession. Perhaps "master mind" may be more appropriate. Regards, CJ Melendez - Fort Lauderdale
8
Oh please. Don't you have better things to worry about? Manipulation of language is one of the problems that brought us to this crisis. The word "architect" has a clear meaning and it is appropriate use here. Are you a University of Missouri grad or a grown up?
The President of France is correct. It is war and must be approached that way. Isis and all of radical Islam is at war with the West. Our President abandoned calling the Islamic war against the West, war. Why is unknown except for his own belief system which apparently assumes you just be nice to people and they will be nice back. In Turkey today, he defended his approach to Isis and said it was winning. This is not funny to the French among others. His approach has resulted in Christians being crucified and women who are not Muslims becoming sexual slaves. Others were just butchered or burned to death. And, to not be forgotten is the Isis destruction of our history at Palmyra and elsewhere. These are sins against all people and civilization. The truth is that our administration did nothing or next to nothing to battle Isis. Our generals begged for more. The pesh merga and Yazidiis begged for help. Almost nothing was done. The trickle of assistance was obscene. We turned our back on these people and ignored the abominations committed by Isis How Mr Obama can now say in light of all and Paris, the latest, that his strategy was working, is self delusion. Just look at the evidence. Had he but acted, evil would have been eradicated and we would not be complicit in the horrors that took place.
10
Yeah France and other Western countries are very good at regime change but have no solutions when their actions result into failed states that breed terror group like ISIL.
So if France is at war now, how would Hollande call France operations in Libya, Iraq or Mali?
Some countries need to dictators to keep terrorists under control. Unfortunately there is no Khadafi and no Saddam to do the job because the west "liberated" these countries.
So if France is at war now, how would Hollande call France operations in Libya, Iraq or Mali?
Some countries need to dictators to keep terrorists under control. Unfortunately there is no Khadafi and no Saddam to do the job because the west "liberated" these countries.
3
France "so good at regime change" ?
I seem to remember some considered opinion, given at the world's highest diplomatic forum (the UN security council, advising the USA AGAINST the (understable) temptation to invade Irak, and implement such a policy of "regime change" !!!
It was given by Mr Villepin, then the Franch minister For foreign affairs. Though he was loudly applauded by the audience composed of the official reprentatives of the entire world, it was reviled by the US Goverment and a rabid smear campaign against France was initatied and relayed by the entire US media.
That "nation building business" was entirely the brain child of MM Dick Chenet and Donald Rumsfeld who described the whole affair as a "cakewalk"....
So that "nation building" thing ? by all rights it should be covered by a US patent !!
I seem to remember some considered opinion, given at the world's highest diplomatic forum (the UN security council, advising the USA AGAINST the (understable) temptation to invade Irak, and implement such a policy of "regime change" !!!
It was given by Mr Villepin, then the Franch minister For foreign affairs. Though he was loudly applauded by the audience composed of the official reprentatives of the entire world, it was reviled by the US Goverment and a rabid smear campaign against France was initatied and relayed by the entire US media.
That "nation building business" was entirely the brain child of MM Dick Chenet and Donald Rumsfeld who described the whole affair as a "cakewalk"....
So that "nation building" thing ? by all rights it should be covered by a US patent !!
1
With the right advocating racism and xenophobia and the left advocating passivity, I hesitate to wade into this orgy of stupidity.
Xenophobia is largely responsible for ISIS' ability to recruit young European Muslims; more xenophobia will lead only to more recruitment.
But, we cannot allow ISIS to continue as it has. The world cannot tolerate terrorism, much less slavery, rape, and genocide. I think the president has been wise in allowing ISIS to congregate in the middle of a stinking desert, to allow them to believe that, even though they're surrounded by hostiles, they can create a state.
I think they're sitting ducks. I think their current actions betray that they've figured that out, and now they're desperate to do something. But they're not going to establish a caliphate in France, in Bagdad, or anywhere else using these tactics.
All that remains is for the rest of the world to man up and do what has to be done.
Xenophobia is largely responsible for ISIS' ability to recruit young European Muslims; more xenophobia will lead only to more recruitment.
But, we cannot allow ISIS to continue as it has. The world cannot tolerate terrorism, much less slavery, rape, and genocide. I think the president has been wise in allowing ISIS to congregate in the middle of a stinking desert, to allow them to believe that, even though they're surrounded by hostiles, they can create a state.
I think they're sitting ducks. I think their current actions betray that they've figured that out, and now they're desperate to do something. But they're not going to establish a caliphate in France, in Bagdad, or anywhere else using these tactics.
All that remains is for the rest of the world to man up and do what has to be done.
4
"All that remains is for the rest of the world to man up and do what has to be done.'
And if that requires the use of tactical nuclear weapons so be it. The US, Russia and France could each contribute one or two and that would be the end of ISIS.
And if that requires the use of tactical nuclear weapons so be it. The US, Russia and France could each contribute one or two and that would be the end of ISIS.
2
Massive use of conventional weapons (bombs, drones, cruise missiles, etc.) would be sufficient and not poison the environment with radioactive fallout.
These attackers were fairly unsophisticated, but their planning and coordination went undetected by a very sophisticated surveillance apparatus. Methods and tactics have changed in the post-Snowden era, and the threat is clearly greater. Whether one thinks Snowden is a traitor, or a hero who acted with good intentions, either way the road ahead has been paved just the same.
21
Brad spectrum intelligence gathering is a boondoggle sold to government agencies on the basis of slide presentations by the beltway bandits who make tons of $$. There is no proof it works and every attack offers plenty of proof it does not. It is not a substitute for the hard work and thought that goes into gathering useful intelligence and understanding the enemy.
Agree. Snowden is in the background here, if only for the reason that everyone is aware of surveillance now. ISIS has been formed and hardened in war, they know what they are doing. The real threat is whether ISIS can get its paws on a big, big, weapon. Snowden also helped them out in that effort. This threat is real, and it is a threat to Russia too. It is time for intensified effort against ISIS because they are spreading. I wish President Obama had not said that ISIS is the varsity team. Maybe his administration is the varsity team, and maybe ISIS is not.
1
You are right, their tactics are much more sophisticated and elusive in the post Snowden era, which means Snowden paved the way for the deaths in Paris the other day, for the deaths in the Russian plane attack, and any future attacks on western targets. So if what he did was not traitorous I'm not sure what is.
1
Can we use the word mastermind, rather than the architect when describing these diabolical, criminal and dasterdley acts?
2
I think rather than 'mastermind' or 'architect', the right word is 'psychopath'.
1
Why the facetious comments about invading Belgium? This is an international criminal conspiracy. I'm sure Belgium will cooperate in dealing with it. As far as inciting more hate, they already hate us, probably no more than they hate Shiites.
3
Most of the millions of refugees from Syria are able bodied men. One has to wonder why these millions cannot overpower the 50,000 ISIS army that President Obama has said we have contained?
7
The able bodied men that you are referring to are being sent to convert Dar al-Harab to Dar al-Islam. Either way it's a victory for the terrorists. Kurdish Peshmerga women are fighting the IS while Syrian men are running away.
1
Even the traditionally pacifist European nations have recognized the threat of ISIS and Islamic terrorism. Only Obama will not label them as such, and only Obama now believes that ISIS is contained. Destroy these religious fundamentalists now, or their numbers will grow exponentially as will their power. When the get a nuclear weapon, as they surely will, all bets are off.
7
So presumably the invocation of Article #5 by France in NATO Agreement will require all members to join the planned war - since they were attacked and all must defend - and Obama will be "forced" into participating with tens of thousands troops on the ground along with the rest of NATO.
So this will be the contrived response to Iran & Russia in Syria to change the Syrian administration in the direction the US wants. Problem solved!
So this will be the contrived response to Iran & Russia in Syria to change the Syrian administration in the direction the US wants. Problem solved!
1
I had hoped that Mohamed Abdeslam would have come right out and condemned the actions of his brother. It seemed he stopped short of that.
10
Are we going to get hysterical again like after 9-11? Let's make America like North Korea, if that's what we aspire to.
2
"Let's make America like North Korea, if that's what we aspire to."
NO, lets exterminate ISIS and all other Islamic terrorist groups.
NO, lets exterminate ISIS and all other Islamic terrorist groups.
5
Let's see if the NYT does not censor this comment. I've written two now and surprisingly they do not get published. This rush to war and vitriolic rhetoric is scary. It is escalating the conflict. Perhaps that is what ISIS wants and France is falling into the trap as the USA did after 9/11. Also, France has strong surveillance and "homeland security" protocols--and what were they good for? They could not avert the attack. Perhaps all the stored data will at least help to find the perpetrators... These things are very complex and global and slippery. Please think before you act.
2
OK, Obama doesn't want to put more boots on the ground to fight ISIS. But if we knew of a command/control center, a terrorist training field and an arms depot in Raqqa Syria, why didn't we bomb it BEFORE the massacre? Clearly, we are NOT doing everything feasible to degrade ISIS, even when they can be done at minimal risk to US military personnel.
12
Instead of war, how about stopping the major source of ISIS's finances, the Saudis? We've been warring with the terrorists for many years now- and things have only gotten worse- Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria.
17
The silence is deafening .
Not a word from our so called (oil rich ) allies
Not a word from our so called (oil rich ) allies
6
If French President Hollande can just convince Obama that ISIS is causing climate change Obama will immediately declare war on ISIS and start calling them radical Islamists.
11
This was good. Well done.
2
Here is a quote attributed to the President in todays NYT: “Let’s assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into Syria,” you said at a gathering of leaders of the Group of 20. “What happens when there’s a terrorist attack generated from Yemen? Do we then send troops into there? Or Libya, perhaps?”
OK, wait a minute please lets just take one terrorist caliphate at a time shall we, otherwise it does seem like to defend ourselves and our allies, let alone innocents like the Yazidis, would be utter futility.
Isn't a brutal attack on our longest held ally and a NATO partner something that should be responded to with troops on the ground?
I think so but I guess the President does not. Better to coin his own reverse domino theory of counter-terrorism, which could become known as the "why bother" foreign policy doctrine.
OK, wait a minute please lets just take one terrorist caliphate at a time shall we, otherwise it does seem like to defend ourselves and our allies, let alone innocents like the Yazidis, would be utter futility.
Isn't a brutal attack on our longest held ally and a NATO partner something that should be responded to with troops on the ground?
I think so but I guess the President does not. Better to coin his own reverse domino theory of counter-terrorism, which could become known as the "why bother" foreign policy doctrine.
4
Watching that video of the terrorist's brother denying any clue nor evincing any anger, rebuke, or disappointment about his brother's radicalism nor his horrific terrorist crime ... prompts incredulous disbelief.
It's an attitude of denial about radical Islam that is probably not unique in that community.
It's an attitude of denial about radical Islam that is probably not unique in that community.
12
I just got back home from work and turned on the local news.
Flash polls by Washington DC news stations show 65% of Americans polled here in DC oppose allowing Syrian migrants to enter the United States.
And Obama is still strutting around overseas wagging his fingers at Americans who are thinking about the safety and security of the United States. We are witnessing global terror, and we have Barack Obama in the WH and John Kerry as Secretary of State. In other words, we are in real trouble here.
Flash polls by Washington DC news stations show 65% of Americans polled here in DC oppose allowing Syrian migrants to enter the United States.
And Obama is still strutting around overseas wagging his fingers at Americans who are thinking about the safety and security of the United States. We are witnessing global terror, and we have Barack Obama in the WH and John Kerry as Secretary of State. In other words, we are in real trouble here.
19
John Brennan- Have you ever wondered what might motivate young people to wrap powerful deadly explosives around their bodies and turn themselves into human bombs? Are these young extremists bored, spoiled brats too lazy to get a job and looking for better kicks and excitement than just hanging around malls as teenagers do here? Do they sit around in their rooms suddenly bored with their play stations, using their cell phones to text their friends or surf the internet and someone says, “hey, I got it; let’s commit suicide for fun by turning ourselves into human bombs killing as many innocent people as we can in the process.” And then the rest of the group cheer out loud, applauding with delight and laughter saying what a great idea- let’s do it.
Is that why Buddhist monks poured gasoline on themselves and ignited their bodies on fire in Saigon in 1963- bored and looking for some better excitement?
Is that why Buddhist monks poured gasoline on themselves and ignited their bodies on fire in Saigon in 1963- bored and looking for some better excitement?
3
Good bye civil rights
7
I read a report earlier today that one of the bombers at the stadium was refused entry after a security guard patted him down and pushed him back after which the bomb was exploded. I have not read whether the security guard survived or not. He/she should be commended.
6
I've never understood why "officials" speak on the condition of anonymity. So this Abdelhamid Abaaoud now enjoys the spotlight and knows he's being pursued. How can this be a good thing? Am I missing something? Happy to have someone explain it to me.
1
Declaring that “France is at war,” he said the attacks had been “planned in Syria, organized in Belgium, perpetrated on our soil with French complicity.”
Clearly people in France and in the United States do not remember what the words, we are at war, spoken by a national leader mean. Ask the old in Japan and Germany who were alive during the early 40's what the words we are at war mean. Ask those who were alive in London during the blitz. It does not mean worrying about collateral damage, it is not politically correct and it ends when very few of the enemy are left standing and they agree to unconditional surrender.
I doubt if the human race will ever again truly be at war and that will cost us in human lives, human suffering and billions of misspent dollars.
Clearly people in France and in the United States do not remember what the words, we are at war, spoken by a national leader mean. Ask the old in Japan and Germany who were alive during the early 40's what the words we are at war mean. Ask those who were alive in London during the blitz. It does not mean worrying about collateral damage, it is not politically correct and it ends when very few of the enemy are left standing and they agree to unconditional surrender.
I doubt if the human race will ever again truly be at war and that will cost us in human lives, human suffering and billions of misspent dollars.
1
This attack was declared to be an act of war and now Mr. Hollande announced that France is at war. To put things in perspective Pearl Harbor was an act of war because it was an opening shot that announced the attention of Japan to invade and conquer the US. In response the US had no choice but to respond with going to war to defeat the Japanese, because the very existence of the US was at stake.
The Paris attacks, however was an act of war in name only. The way these attacks usually go is that they are one time things, such as the bombing of the London tube and the Madrid train bombings. Not only is the existence of France not in jeopardy, but life will go on as it always has.
As such the extent of France's being at war will be limited to joining the US in dropping bombs on ISIS. They will however never consider sending ground troops, because this "war" is not worth even the lives of a few French troops.
And the fact is that as it is the US has more than enough planes to bomb any and all targets, many of the planes return with their bombs intact because they could't find any targets to hit. So France using its own planes to join in the bombing won't make any difference at all.
So in reality the Mr. Hollande's deceleration that France is at "war" is primarily for the purpose of reclaiming France's hurt pride. And this "war" will certainly not be fought in a way that will result in the "annihilation of ISIS" which is what Mr. Hollande has declared he is determined to achieve.
The Paris attacks, however was an act of war in name only. The way these attacks usually go is that they are one time things, such as the bombing of the London tube and the Madrid train bombings. Not only is the existence of France not in jeopardy, but life will go on as it always has.
As such the extent of France's being at war will be limited to joining the US in dropping bombs on ISIS. They will however never consider sending ground troops, because this "war" is not worth even the lives of a few French troops.
And the fact is that as it is the US has more than enough planes to bomb any and all targets, many of the planes return with their bombs intact because they could't find any targets to hit. So France using its own planes to join in the bombing won't make any difference at all.
So in reality the Mr. Hollande's deceleration that France is at "war" is primarily for the purpose of reclaiming France's hurt pride. And this "war" will certainly not be fought in a way that will result in the "annihilation of ISIS" which is what Mr. Hollande has declared he is determined to achieve.
50
Japan did not hit Pearl harbor with the intention of invading the US. The Japanese government wanted to eliminate the US as a Pacific power so that it could expand its subjugation of Chinese and other Asian people.
3
The Japanese did not attack Pearl Harbor because they wanted to invade and conquer the US. That was never Japan's intention or desire in 1941 or ever. Japan intended to invade and conquer US territories in the Western Pacific - principally the Philippines, as well as Guam and the Mariana Islands - in order to give itself a free hand to conquer British, Australian and Dutch territories in Southeast Asia and continue its conquest of China. The attack on Pearl Harbor was meant to eliminate the US Pacific Fleet so it could not help defend the Philippines or Guam or provide assistance to the British, Australians or Dutch. Japan eventually foresaw itself taking over Hawaii - which as US territory then, not a state - but that was not its aim in the Pearl Harbor attack.
2
I believe by declaring an act of war your rules of engagement widens and your collateral damage threshold increase and hence you open up more targets. It also brings into play Nato article 5.
1
Despite administration assurances that "robust" vetting will be in place for refugee applicants to the U.S., lawmakers stress that the vetting process is hobbled by the fact that U.S. officials do not have formal cooperation with the Syrian government, making background checks more difficult.
Where the administration however fails to reveal to the public is:
Where are the refugees staying during the vetting process?
How long is the process?
If in the US during the process, they can easily move about throughout the USA with out detection as so many other immigrants who came to the US on a visa and then never heard from again! Food for thought.
Where the administration however fails to reveal to the public is:
Where are the refugees staying during the vetting process?
How long is the process?
If in the US during the process, they can easily move about throughout the USA with out detection as so many other immigrants who came to the US on a visa and then never heard from again! Food for thought.
6
Actually, they have revealed that information to the public; you just haven't done your research apparently. The process can take up to two years. And they aren't brought to the US until they pass the screening process. While the screening is being done, they're staying at refugee camps in Europe. In fact, many of the refugees at the top of the list have been in camps in Turkey and elsewhere for years, some since before ISIS even existed.
1
The refugees are being vetted where they are currently - in Europe or refugee camps in Turkey, Lebanon or Jordan. This is fundamentally different from the Central American refugees who showed up the US border last summer en masse and had to be sent to processing centers within the US - short of hijacking a cargo ship or a plane, the Syrian refugees have no physical means to get to the US en masse in order to demand asylum and vetting on the ground.
1
I just heard that the GOP is going to change the name of Begian Waffles to Freedom Waffles in the White House cafeteria.
3
You can be sure a 'targeting package' is being put together, like the one that got Jihad John. All this is meaningless. Killing them one strike at a time will put us into the 22 century. Boots, boots and more boots on the ground is the only way to kill off these people. Our boots? Of course not, always someone else's, meaning it will never happen. Seems the obvious is never obvious.
In what universe did Belgium decide it needed half a million Muslim, third world immigrants (sorry, I should have have said Muslim Belgians. irony intended)? In what nightmare of diversity and Hollywood inspired color-blindness did France decide it needed 5 million extremely pious Algerian Muslims? And Germany with Muslim Turks already taking over the grade schools deciding they needed a million unknown, third world, mostly Muslim refugees to fit into German housing projects in coming decades. Sorry if I'm hitting all the notes that are the antithesis of modern global culture but you know what. I'm right. Diversity creates a house of cards and we know how easily those can be blown over.
14
Agreed, Karl. And unfortunately tens of thousands of "refugees" are coming to our towns and cities soon.
I'm very disappointed that President Obama could not even bring himself (on foreign soil, no less) to empathize with many of our fears. Instead, he wagged his finger at us in a condescending manner in Turkey as if somehow Americans are immature and are part of the problem.
I'm very disappointed that President Obama could not even bring himself (on foreign soil, no less) to empathize with many of our fears. Instead, he wagged his finger at us in a condescending manner in Turkey as if somehow Americans are immature and are part of the problem.
Look, I for one am no alarmist, but we simply can not live in a world where at any moment some misguided, idiot declares jihad and indiscriminately starts killing people. I think we would all agree that is a non-starter. So, I think this vile and heartless ideology must be stamped out regardless of the cost. All sensible nations have to come together and at least agree that this is a priority perhaps even more pressing than climate change. It can not be ignored. It is not going away. It must be confronted, defeated and in no way shape or form tolerated or accepted. I think that is the only sensible position to take. Containment is not an option.
3
The longer this "war" goes on, the more obvious it has become that Obama is truly reluctant to back-up his stated objective of degrading and destroying ISIS/ISIL. He uses the excuse of not wanting to harm US service people, when in reality the real reason for not wanting to employ the military power at his disposal has everything to do with his own Muslim upbringing at the hands of his father. If he had no intent of making good on his promise to destroy these savages, he never should have made another empty threat which ultimately resulted in the disappointment of an ally like the French, who undoubtedly expected so much more from us. Hollande leads and declares war; Obama offers excuses and does nothing. The contrast is dramatic...sticks and stones which break bones, versus words which do no harm. But, his "legacy" is still intact. And, isn't that Obama's main objective anyway?
5
Yes, You are right. The President's reluctance to employ military force against Muslims must be why he oversees a personal kill list and uses drones indiscriminately against Muslims across the world. Thousands of dead Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria, Somalia and elsewhere bear mute witness to President Obama's reluctance to kill at will.
There seems to be a group of people using this board to pretend that Pres. Obama is at fault. Far from it. Unlike after 9/11, we have a president who is keeping up with briefings, and who give an intelligent, carefully considered answer to questions posed at news conferences. To the commenters from Florida who compare now to the 1940s - it's time for you to get real. In the 1940s, the enemies were clearly defined, including geographically. Enemy territory was clear, and the location of enemies was clear. That's not true now - terrorist cells can be literally anywhere, as the events in Paris prove. It's not about sending US troops to land on a beach in France, however perilous that proved on D-Day - now, it's more like house to house combat in any major urban center in any country of the world, and also digital surveillance. Not the same thing at all. On another note - where is the reporting about how much the terrorist cells have learned from the treasonous release of US surveillance methods? CNN is reporting that the Belgian cell used an app of their own devising to avoid being monitored by surveillance - did they learn that method by studying the treasonous release of US documents? Time for the truth to come out - treason kills innocents.
3
If Bush's policy of pushing regime change in Iraq and Syria was wrong, then why did Obama double-down on that same approach and push for regime change in Syria and Libya? If the current problem facing Europe is the exodus of Islamic refugees from the Middle East, then why are are refugee outflows from that area now 10X higher than when Obama took office? If ISIS insists upon launching a wave of terror upon Western Civilization, why is it that they were unheard of during Bush's tenure? Why is it that ISIS possesses large quantities of American firearms and transportation? Why does this President continue to look the other way when ISIS commits incredulous acts of barbarity and proudly advertises via streaming video for all to see?
The opening photo of Mr. Abaaoud strikes me as unsettling for a couple of reasons, and though I am glad there is a face to the name and at least a way to find closure (Let's all assume he will be tried, convicted, and put to death relatively swiftly), the irony of him standing in front of an American made truck (AM General Hummer) with Goodyear tires isn't lost on me...
1
There's a sad mirror-image irony apparent in this, the second decade of the war on Islamist terror.
One, the more outrageous the barbarous terrorism becomes to the world at large, the more categorical the response by a portion of the polity throughout the West. President Obama's stooping to political defense of limited response at the G20 Summit -- when he should be taking nothing off the table vis-a-vis ISIS, in deference to his soon-to-be successor if nothing else -- is inexcusable, particularly in light of ISIS's openly-expressed chief goal in committing terrorist mass murder outside its "caliphate": to hinder and delimit various nations' military actions on ISIS territory.
Two, some in the West, including President Obama, are so intellectually and morally fuzzy (or worse) vis-a-vis the basics of the war on Islamist terror that they do not "get" that they cannot partner with the entity deemed by U.S. State, across Dem. and GOP administrations (until Obama suppressed the language), the planet's greatest exporter of terror in a grand bargain to procure its "buy-in" against ISIS. Such a devil's bargain will come back to bite their children if not themselves.
One, the more outrageous the barbarous terrorism becomes to the world at large, the more categorical the response by a portion of the polity throughout the West. President Obama's stooping to political defense of limited response at the G20 Summit -- when he should be taking nothing off the table vis-a-vis ISIS, in deference to his soon-to-be successor if nothing else -- is inexcusable, particularly in light of ISIS's openly-expressed chief goal in committing terrorist mass murder outside its "caliphate": to hinder and delimit various nations' military actions on ISIS territory.
Two, some in the West, including President Obama, are so intellectually and morally fuzzy (or worse) vis-a-vis the basics of the war on Islamist terror that they do not "get" that they cannot partner with the entity deemed by U.S. State, across Dem. and GOP administrations (until Obama suppressed the language), the planet's greatest exporter of terror in a grand bargain to procure its "buy-in" against ISIS. Such a devil's bargain will come back to bite their children if not themselves.
3
I don't suppose Obama will do anything until we get hit with another 9/11 like attack. His argument does not make sense. . . We know where their leaders are and where their forces are and we just keep pussyfooting in the Middle East while ISIS takes more land and gets stronger. They have already declared themselves a sovereign state and caliphate with a capital. They control oil fields and generating funds. They are at War with the West and they are not playing by any rules. The West should get their act together and get serious. They want war? Let's send them to the Stone Age. As the French President said; It's time to be merciless and wipe them out. We have more than ample capability. Better their innocents than ours. No, Mr. President, their is no political solution because those in power now are corrupt and their are no strong pro-Western groups in the Syria, Iraq or Libya, or Yemen. Put Saudi Arabia and Iran on notice. If you sponsor terrorism,we will wipe you out and we have the power to do so. I don't care if it's amoral or not. It's war. And all you intellectual elitist, high ethics do-goody types that populate this neighborhood can argue ad nauseum, but in the end it's about us or them. And If I do blame someone for having an "us" or "them": I blame religion: the worst invention that ever came out of our delusional ignorant and twisted minds. Make no mistake this a war between secularism and religion.
9
A lot of commenters are drawing parallels between Hollande's speech and Bush taking us into Iraq, but in immediate aftermath of 9/11 it was Afghanistan we went into, with a large coalition. Iraq didn't happen till 2003 with strong opposition from some allies, the French notably, warning us of the consequences.
The distinction is important.
The distinction is important.
2
Even the French Socialist Government is to the right of Obama on this. Another example of how out of touch Obama & the Democrats are.
6
Declaring war on ISIS is exactly what ISIS wants, and bombing, with its collateral damage, just gives them more recruits. Good police work prevents attacks and sane middle east policies prevent the formation of groups like ISIS and al Qaeda.
The Saudi role in terror funding and inciting terror must be addressed, and Washington is the problem here.
The Saudi role in terror funding and inciting terror must be addressed, and Washington is the problem here.
8
It's going to take spies - and lots of them. Ideally, some spies on the inside of the ISIS and ISIL organizations. It's going to take international cooperation. Intelligence communities will have to share intel. It's going to be a long, drawn out process using intelligence communities and special ops.
2
This is so misguided. What we have to do is show love and multiculturalism to the "terrorists", who really aren't terrorists at all but freedom fighters. They stand for the tens of millions around the world the US and its allies have indiscriminately killed, stolen from, and displaced. It's time for a massive apology from Pres. Obama and a massive commitment to use U.S. resources to help the people of the Middle East and elsewhere who've been victimized by America.
You really don't have a clue, do you?
2
European Union and the rest of its neighbors have to help the African countries and its people massively by way of five year development plans for the next fifty to hundred years to raise their standard of living so that the people can stay in their own countries. This is what India has done in the last 68 years since Independence from Britain, raising the life expectancy and standard of living.
As a matter of fact development and education programs have to be the norm and not weaponry.
As a matter of fact development and education programs have to be the norm and not weaponry.
1
I had to note the series of raids that found Kalashnikovs and semi automatic handguns, so the suspects were taken into custody. Here, they'd be given a parade.
2
Last week the weight of opinion in the Times comments seemed to be that the Syrian civil war is not an American concern, and that we should just let them fight it out. This week there is much more opinion that we should invade.
My opinion was between those extremes last week, and remains there this week: defeating ISIS is an American concern, but ISIS must be beaten by Muslims, preferably Sunnis, because it must be a victory of moderate Sunni Islam over radical Sunni Islam, and not a victory of western democracies over Islam. The U.S. should support those fighting ISIS - with arms, intelligence, air support, and money - but we should not lead the fight.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
My opinion was between those extremes last week, and remains there this week: defeating ISIS is an American concern, but ISIS must be beaten by Muslims, preferably Sunnis, because it must be a victory of moderate Sunni Islam over radical Sunni Islam, and not a victory of western democracies over Islam. The U.S. should support those fighting ISIS - with arms, intelligence, air support, and money - but we should not lead the fight.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
1
So France is at war. Why not invade Belgium? The Belgians need to pay a price for this, since it was their citizens working undercover in Molenbeek the Jihadist Capital of Europe. Follow the logic.
France is at war, with Belgium?? is he going to bomb a Belgian city? No, he'll pile onto the bombing of the Syria and whatever other middle east country and fan the fumes of hatred of the west. Smart, really not so smart.
As Marc Thiessen wrote today in The Washington Post:
"The Islamic State’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has repeatedly warned that it is coming after us. In an audio address last year, he declared: 'Our last message is to the Americans: Soon we will be in direct confrontation, and the sons of Islam have prepared for such a day. So watch, for we are with you, watching.' And following the Paris attacks, the Islamic State released a new video in which it warned, 'By God, as we struck France in the center of its abode in Paris, then we swear that we will strike America at its center in Washington.'
You can’t get much clearer than that.
Obama needs to take the words of the enemy seriously. If he fails to do so, it is only a matter of time before the Islamic State follows through on its threats to bring the violence we just witnessed in Paris here to our shores."
To ignore the above warning from ISIS would be akin to George W. Bush ignoring the President's Daily Brief of 8/6/11 titled "Bin-Laden Determined to Strike in US". Look what happened a month later.
"The Islamic State’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has repeatedly warned that it is coming after us. In an audio address last year, he declared: 'Our last message is to the Americans: Soon we will be in direct confrontation, and the sons of Islam have prepared for such a day. So watch, for we are with you, watching.' And following the Paris attacks, the Islamic State released a new video in which it warned, 'By God, as we struck France in the center of its abode in Paris, then we swear that we will strike America at its center in Washington.'
You can’t get much clearer than that.
Obama needs to take the words of the enemy seriously. If he fails to do so, it is only a matter of time before the Islamic State follows through on its threats to bring the violence we just witnessed in Paris here to our shores."
To ignore the above warning from ISIS would be akin to George W. Bush ignoring the President's Daily Brief of 8/6/11 titled "Bin-Laden Determined to Strike in US". Look what happened a month later.
3
I think American way of integration, Welcome to America! Get to work, is the best way to assimilate immigrants.
Want to stop ISIS? Play hardball. Lose your losing "moral high ground" and pretty words. Come down to their level. Start leveling a few historic and significant Islamic mosques and other "holy" sites. There is no paradise in Islam for a "martyred site." Pressure from the enabling countries would wrap up ISIS in just a few days. Don't want to play hardball? Then you get what you're getting.
6
It is true that European counteies face a much more serious problem with sociopathic Muslim terror potential than the US... Nevertheless I think the US and Canada, as per comments by CIA chief Brennan , are engaged in too much hand wringing about stiffening security and data gathering. I am ' liberal' but in these times of increasingly sophisticated cyber info networks if you don't want to be spied on then don't use the Internet or your phone for private or personal matters.
2
Right. Perhaps terrorists might find snail mail more secure.
Beware the CIA director who complains about 'hand-wringing' and 'wake up calls'. Privacy? Civil liberties? Pish! Don't you know there are terrorists out there who 'hate us for our freedom?'
1
The computer hacking collective known as Anonymous has gone public with its intent to initiate a cyber-war on ISIS. This is exactly the sort of grassroots involvement that's needed to start co-opting the ability of ISIS to conduct its "business". More power to them.
27
Rout them out...kill them, and leave nothing standing. Fight fire with fire. That's the ONLY THING these monsters understand.
3
Is it me or does the Middle East work better with Hussein-like dictators at the helm?
11
@Mr. Rational,
And yet Bush felt compelled to take out Saddam and Obama is compelled to remove Assad!
And yet Bush felt compelled to take out Saddam and Obama is compelled to remove Assad!
3
If these terrorist organizations are successful, it will throw the western world back into the Iron Age. Have these folks considered this, raised on television and being educated at American Universities? Further, this appears to be the third wave of a Holy War. That is, take a look at your History of Christianity. You will see that the most recent world-wide wave of Islam was the Crusades. The last time Islam was stopped was at Spain when the Muslim governor of Spain Ibn al Arubi, the governor of Barcelona and Gerona, sought the aid of Charlemagne to combat the Umayyed Caliph of Cordova and his Muslim forces. I am suggesting a review of Christianity from 570 AD to 1300 AD. These waves of Christianity and Islam, each taking over the known civilized world, are nothing new. I suspect the mind of Islam and their clerics have a longer memory than we Americans do.
Nice American humvee in the background of that photo. Sickening story from every angle.
3
A poll taken in France and reported by Newsweek there (08/26/14) revealed that ISIS had an approval rating in France of 16% almost as high as President Francois Holland at 18%. In the 18-to-24-year-old demographic, support for ISIS jumped to 27%?
Yes after the Paris attacks these numbers will invariably go down. But why were the favorable ratings for ISIS so high to begin with? Shouldn't France find out what underlies that support and address that right away?
Yes after the Paris attacks these numbers will invariably go down. But why were the favorable ratings for ISIS so high to begin with? Shouldn't France find out what underlies that support and address that right away?
6
The translation of the video clip is incorrect He doesn't say "fou" he says "faux"
"although some of you will think I am fake" not "crazy"
"although some of you will think I am fake" not "crazy"
2
NYT: Please, please don't call him a "mastermind". Shooting up crowds of unsuspecting, unarmed civilians is not an example of mastermind planning. It is just thuggery.
8
Hollande gets it. We are at war with radical Islam. It's a shame that the potus does not seem to understand this reality.
6
Mr. Obama-why do you keep on announcing what we will NOT do to a group of inhumane terrorists who, in the words of a NY Times columnist, seem to want nothing less than an apocalypse ? They are determined to annihilate every man, woman, and child in the world who does not adhere to their distorted view of religion.
Even if you don't intend to send in American troops, please, don't proclaim to your sworn enemies that you will not do so. You have to make them believe that you will do anything - anything-to defeat them, even if you personally have reservations. Based upon your statements, ISIS not not fear the wrath of the United States until it again unleashes a horror on our shores. If that happens because of your hesitancy, Mr. President, the blood of innocent Americans will be on your hands
Even if you don't intend to send in American troops, please, don't proclaim to your sworn enemies that you will not do so. You have to make them believe that you will do anything - anything-to defeat them, even if you personally have reservations. Based upon your statements, ISIS not not fear the wrath of the United States until it again unleashes a horror on our shores. If that happens because of your hesitancy, Mr. President, the blood of innocent Americans will be on your hands
2
I have not seen any mention in media reports about the connection to the Paris arracks and the drone strike on high profile ISIS executioner "Jihiadi John". The attacks on Paris happened the day after he was reported killed and may have been triggered by the drone strike on him. I would suggest that if a high profile ISIS member is killed by coalition forces it would be wise to ramp up security after reports go out about it. On another note, I worked with Stanley L Cohen a US lawyer with Middle East connections who went to Jordan and Lebanon in a failed attempt to save the life of US Army Veteran Peter Kassig. Cohen took a big risk to do this and was close to possibly freeing him when the Jordanian Islamic scholar Cohen was using in the attempt was arrested by Jordan. Cohen is now in Federal Prison in the US for a tax conviction. All of this has been reported by The Guardian and others but not the NY Times. I mention this here because more people should know about it and because I am very happy and I am sure Cohen is too about the elimination of "Jihiadi John" who killed Peter Kassig. Again, I would suggest here that when very high profile ISIS members are eliminated security should be ramped up and also that it is too bad Stanley L Cohen is in jail because he could be a back channel asset in the war on ISIS.
3
I'm just wondering: what exactly does the President mean?
The terrorists came from France and Belgium.
Maybe France and Belgium should deal with these citizens before bombing far away places? Or maybe it's easier and more politically correct to bomb Libya and Syria and do nothing with your own people.
It's a waste of time to drop 20 bombs far away from the real problem.
The terrorists came from France and Belgium.
Maybe France and Belgium should deal with these citizens before bombing far away places? Or maybe it's easier and more politically correct to bomb Libya and Syria and do nothing with your own people.
It's a waste of time to drop 20 bombs far away from the real problem.
47
The French and Belgian men who assisted the terrorists were collaborators, and don't reflect the French or Belgian citizenry any more than ISIS reflects the Syrian refugees from their terror.
Good point. Bombing Iraq, I mean Syria, may make good public relations for the moment but it feels like a very expensive and very familiar mistake.
He is trying to suspend Constitutional rights as GWB did in USA post 9/11 (hence Guantanamo, TSA, torture etc.)
Watch the same talking heads that say America is awash in guns and violence claim that well no, ISIS could not mount a sophisticated Paris scale attack in the U.S. because the Obama administration strategy will of course prevent that.
1
Come again?
2
What is being done to stop radical mullahs from selling hate against the West?
7
When you kill about two million Muslims in the Middle East as the US has you will be hated by their survivors.
2
US hysteria seems to be shared by France. What did you expect when you have been killing muslims in the Middle East for years, at least since 911. What goes around comes around. Or to put it another way, they came over here because we went over there. We started it all.
2
"Here"? You're in Houston TX, far from Paris last I checked.
ISIS was born in Iraq because we invaded then got out in the midst of a civil war.
France tried to stop us from going to Iraq, now they are getting attacked.
ISIS was born in Iraq because we invaded then got out in the midst of a civil war.
France tried to stop us from going to Iraq, now they are getting attacked.
8
What does that mean anymore . . . ". . . is at war"?
Who's not these days, and when were we never not. All this talk of "war" is so cliche and meaningless so as to make all the news these day too surreal to even be taken seriously.
There are no more wars to be declared, it's all just another day here on planet earth.
Who's not these days, and when were we never not. All this talk of "war" is so cliche and meaningless so as to make all the news these day too surreal to even be taken seriously.
There are no more wars to be declared, it's all just another day here on planet earth.
2
It's all about fear folks. If you feel the fear they have you. We live in a country that is controlled, for years, by fear. Remember the red, yellow, orange lights. Controlled us by our own fear didn't it. This is doing the same.
1
Should we bring back the draft?
It looks like THEY already have....
As wrong as it sounds, deporting military age middle easterners back to the Middle East, 18-30 to start would be an effective first step to combat this guerrilla type warfare. The Saudi Arabia and some other countries support ISIS, so it seems reasonable that they would be asked to support these young males until this war is over.
6
Look at the terrorist in the picture brandishing the Holy Quran. Now, is it not Saudi Arabia that is teaching these extremists to read the Holy Quran as if this were the 7th Century, and not the 21st? Why is everybody ( I am afraid, including the President of the Untied States ) so afraid of speaking against Saudi Arabia? How many innocents must be slaughtered in our streets before the civilized world confronted the Saudi royal regime that is exploiting Islam for its own political advantage to reform?
10
President Obama is correct. Unless we are prepared to occupy these countries permanently, then sending in ground troop offensives is not a long term solution. So I guess the question is should a coalition of US/European powers be prepared to permanently occupy multiple countries in the Middle East region if those governments cannot or will not stamp out the groups that are terrorizing our civilians? Is that a viable option – to go in and “take over”? Just this morning I listened to a story on NPR about how ISIS are taking over schools in Afghanistan, teaching little kids ages 4 – 9 about “jihad” and their version of Islam. Creating the next generation of terrorists, basically.
3
ISIS current members and its followers are ultimately committed to convey a religious prophecy no matter the cost. If we can decipher and understand the prophecy and the religious limitations it imposes on the members of ISIS themselves, then we can begin to better form a strategic plan on how to move forward in dealing with these radicals. We need to fully understand their beliefs and the limitations of those same beliefs.
31
We need to understand them? Are you paying attention? Personally I think it is time we have some courage and common sense and eradicate every ME country that threatens other states and attempts to harm citizens. Their beliefs are those of young men riled by a false religion that they believe gives them directions to kill and force their belief system on all. These are sick people who have a sick ideology who are demanding that all join or be eradicated. Enough of trying to understand why these monsters commit atrocities. We need to stop them with with whatever means possible. And yes: no Syrians cross our borders
The ISIS terrorists are committed to "Islam" ruling the world. Their version of Islam that is. That means women being treated like nobodies except when they are needed for sex when they are taken and raped without pity. It means instant death if you annoy one of the great ISIS commanders. It is not a structured religion as Westerners understand that term. President Hollande is right: we are at war. The nature of war has changed since WWII. There are no declarations any more and no more Chamberlain conferences. Those who seek to destroy their enemies simply wage war. That is what we saw in Paris last Friday.
Irene Florida: you don't need to psychologize and understand the beliefs and limitations of a pack of rabid murderers. You need only to understand how the shrapnel will tear their brains apart.
You really think that if we decipher their limitations we will be able to stop them? See your physician: the drugs you are on are having a strange interaction.
You really think that if we decipher their limitations we will be able to stop them? See your physician: the drugs you are on are having a strange interaction.
Any chance this man is one of the thousands of foreign jihadist fighters armed, trained and funded by the US and Saudi Arabia (and France and other Sunni Gulf States) to overthrow the Assad government, but who move easily between ISIL, al Nusra, the Free Syrian Army, and the other Islamic extremist groups in Syria —precisely the same groups that tens of thousands of Syrian refugees are fleeing to Europe to escape?
To both defeat ISIL and end the flow of Syrian refugees into Europe, the US and France should stop arming and funding Islamic jihadist trying to overthrow the Assad government, and join Russia to support Assad’s military in regaining control over Syrian territory and borders.
To both defeat ISIL and end the flow of Syrian refugees into Europe, the US and France should stop arming and funding Islamic jihadist trying to overthrow the Assad government, and join Russia to support Assad’s military in regaining control over Syrian territory and borders.
1
Assad? He drops cluster bombs and gas on his own. No, not someone you want to get friendly to.
I wait, with bated breath, for the first republican to propose bombing the terrorists where they are, in Brussels.
Not knowing that Brussels is not a city in Syria.
Not knowing that Brussels is not a city in Syria.
11
It truly is a shame how many people are using this incident to demonize Syrian refugees.
Those who use this incident as justification to turn a cold shoulder to the most vulnerable from Syria escaping Assad and ISIS are doing the propaganda work for ISIS. ISIS uses propaganda of a culture war and the actions of Assad to recruit fighters. We should not be helping them by proving them right, especially when it means we are turning our backs on our basic American culture of welcoming those in need and in danger.
Those who use this incident as justification to turn a cold shoulder to the most vulnerable from Syria escaping Assad and ISIS are doing the propaganda work for ISIS. ISIS uses propaganda of a culture war and the actions of Assad to recruit fighters. We should not be helping them by proving them right, especially when it means we are turning our backs on our basic American culture of welcoming those in need and in danger.
159
we are not demonizing them get that straight. We need to limit and vet ALL incoming migrants and make sure they are who they say they are and where they are from and for what reasons they came. This isn't 1945 or 1901 for that matter.. immigration policies also need to adapt to current realities and not stay antiquated. Sorry, there can't be an open-door, come -as - you are, policy anymore. Paris proved this.
6
Isn't it possible to have the deepest compassion for the refugees while simultaneously recognizing that they could easily be used as cover to infiltrate Europe?
Clearly some people don't have the capacity to analyze the situation, and many of them are indeed demonizing all Muslims. But it's a multifaceted issue.
The influx of refugees is taking an economic toll on the European nations. It seems very likely that the refugees have been deliberately used as pawns in an economic war. This doesn't mean that they are willing participants in this strategy, but it complicates the matter.
Clearly some people don't have the capacity to analyze the situation, and many of them are indeed demonizing all Muslims. But it's a multifaceted issue.
The influx of refugees is taking an economic toll on the European nations. It seems very likely that the refugees have been deliberately used as pawns in an economic war. This doesn't mean that they are willing participants in this strategy, but it complicates the matter.
8
@J. Pardun
Most people who demonized Syrian refugees didn't need this act of terrorism to justify their opinion. But at the same time, one shouldn't underestimate the nefarious lengths these fundamentalists will go to, in order to infiltrate the societies of the "infidel."
Most people who demonized Syrian refugees didn't need this act of terrorism to justify their opinion. But at the same time, one shouldn't underestimate the nefarious lengths these fundamentalists will go to, in order to infiltrate the societies of the "infidel."
3
Since ISIS claims credit it would be silly to treat this atrocity as anything but a well considered tactic but to what end? ISIS is being hammered by Air, on the ground, and across the world by governments of all sizes and inclinations, so what do they gain by attacking people in Paris that helps them? Not one thing, nothing. What will happen when France and Germany react along with the smaller European nations and the U.S.? Plenty. Muslim minorities will be treated like enemies and refugees from Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, and even Libya will be expelled and kept from the safe haven of Europe and the U.S., back into the tender hands of ISIS, Assad and the other killers in the Muslim world. The turmoil will generate confusion and distract efforts against ISIS where they live and hatch their monstrous acts, while creating conditions for much greater recruitment and support from those who would rather not be a part of it all. To defeat ISIS means bearing the wounds and losses required to win, not striking out in righteous retaliation.
57
You realize the second part of your comment answers your initial questions, right? ISIS clearly has plenty to gain with these tactics. It all depends on how the West responds.
Bullseye.
Are you seriously suggesting that Western societies should sit back and 'bear the wounds and losses' of attacks on our populace to some vague strategy to destroy ISIS in Iraq/Syria? Who exactly is doing the "hammering" you refer to as the number of air strikes has actually declined over the past 2 months .. if you want to destroy them, I'm all with you but then have the guts to admit what ISIS and the rest of the world know: the only way to route this nest of vipers out is the US military on the ground leading the fight. Are you ready to support that
The barbarians are at the gates - and there are no gates !
Europe, the USA and Australia now have within then a Fifth Column
Europe, the USA and Australia now have within then a Fifth Column
10
Hollande is right. France is at War. But it has been at war since the Algerian civil war. After that war ended the battle moved to France itself where many of the new arrivals from Algiers did not assimilate at all. In Urban banlieueus French is not spoke at all.
In an effort to bring about assimilation France banned the wearing of head scarves and the burka. It also passed from anti-discrimination laws which had little or no effect.
France was easy for ISIS to enter since the EU really had not control over its external borders and Schengem assured that once in you could travel all over the EU and never be stopped for any sort of passport control. Look at how easy the Charlie Hebdo massacre was carried out. The new crowd of refugees sweeping through Europe at Merkel’s invitation has made it even easier. In fact a Syrian passport was bound at the Ba-ta-clan site which could be traced back to a refugee.
France more than most European countries had maintained a decent army. But it will take more than bombs on Raqqa to defeat ISIS. Ultimately it will take boots on the ground. But whose boots? For Russia the answer is “Syrian army”. But will other countries go along with that since they have shouting ASSAD MUST GO for years now.
If the Boots are not those of the Syrian army. will the countries involved call for the draft of their own citizens (doubtful) or will they try and resurrect that old canard of the “Free Syrian Army” – a US invention
In an effort to bring about assimilation France banned the wearing of head scarves and the burka. It also passed from anti-discrimination laws which had little or no effect.
France was easy for ISIS to enter since the EU really had not control over its external borders and Schengem assured that once in you could travel all over the EU and never be stopped for any sort of passport control. Look at how easy the Charlie Hebdo massacre was carried out. The new crowd of refugees sweeping through Europe at Merkel’s invitation has made it even easier. In fact a Syrian passport was bound at the Ba-ta-clan site which could be traced back to a refugee.
France more than most European countries had maintained a decent army. But it will take more than bombs on Raqqa to defeat ISIS. Ultimately it will take boots on the ground. But whose boots? For Russia the answer is “Syrian army”. But will other countries go along with that since they have shouting ASSAD MUST GO for years now.
If the Boots are not those of the Syrian army. will the countries involved call for the draft of their own citizens (doubtful) or will they try and resurrect that old canard of the “Free Syrian Army” – a US invention
3
We're playing Whack-a-mole. Nothing will change until the Wahhabi Saudis renounce Jihad.
8
"Mastermind."
What an utterly misused word.
What an utterly misused word.
3
Obama's Catch 22.
The warmongers are trying to box in president Obama. They're getting ready to take political advantage if ISIS strikes in the U.S.. Their minions are already going after phone apps, playstation, liberals, the loose 4th amendment, and Silicon Valley. They're on the edge of their seats -- waiting -- with their speeches at the ready. It's sickening. They will blame Obama for any attack. But, they will not blame Obama's relentless attacks on ISIS. They will not claim that an ISIS terrorist attack is in retaliation for Obama's bombing campaign. Obama can't win.
Let's take a look at the facts:
The French dropped 20 bombs in one strike. Obama and the U.S. dropped 28,000 bombs on ISIS: 8,000 strikes total, 5,000 in Iraq and 2,000 in Syria. The targets remaining are of unknown quality. The fantastic notion, perpetuated by a hyperventilating media, that the French are leading the way in bombing ISIS "headquarters" and high value "training areas", that Obama did not already bomb, is absurd.
The media knows better. Obama gave Hollande a series of ISIS targets so Hollande can put on a show for the grieving French people. That some American retired generals on TV and politicians would use Hollande's bombing "bravado", against Obama, to make Obama look weak in comparison, is not only bizarre but it's a gross misrepresentation of reality.
Terrorist attacks are scary, but watch out for the for-profit warmongers on our TV's that appear to be beaming and glowing.
The warmongers are trying to box in president Obama. They're getting ready to take political advantage if ISIS strikes in the U.S.. Their minions are already going after phone apps, playstation, liberals, the loose 4th amendment, and Silicon Valley. They're on the edge of their seats -- waiting -- with their speeches at the ready. It's sickening. They will blame Obama for any attack. But, they will not blame Obama's relentless attacks on ISIS. They will not claim that an ISIS terrorist attack is in retaliation for Obama's bombing campaign. Obama can't win.
Let's take a look at the facts:
The French dropped 20 bombs in one strike. Obama and the U.S. dropped 28,000 bombs on ISIS: 8,000 strikes total, 5,000 in Iraq and 2,000 in Syria. The targets remaining are of unknown quality. The fantastic notion, perpetuated by a hyperventilating media, that the French are leading the way in bombing ISIS "headquarters" and high value "training areas", that Obama did not already bomb, is absurd.
The media knows better. Obama gave Hollande a series of ISIS targets so Hollande can put on a show for the grieving French people. That some American retired generals on TV and politicians would use Hollande's bombing "bravado", against Obama, to make Obama look weak in comparison, is not only bizarre but it's a gross misrepresentation of reality.
Terrorist attacks are scary, but watch out for the for-profit warmongers on our TV's that appear to be beaming and glowing.
9
I beg Muslim Americans to elect or select leaders who preach love, and only love for fellow humans in American mosques. I beg all Muslim-Americans to insist that their mosques preach exclusively about loving, embracing humanity, respecting women, serving and taking care of each other. Or send back the clerics to the places that finance them.
Why? Because your inaction, and tired lines ("Islam is a religion of peace") is making the native people suspicious of all immigrants. As if you, like me, have never been singled out at an airport and had your stuff rifled? Or are you waiting for Americans to insist that we sew our religious affiliations on our clothes, and concentrate us? I don't want to wait and see. Grief and anger makes a lot of people do things that they later claim to regret.
You and I - albeit from different countries and religions - came here to seek a better life, embrace western values, and live in civil society. We owe America love and respect. It is time for you to take responsibility for those seeking to pervert Islam, take control of what is being preached, and act to create a world for our children and grandchildren in America that knows no hate, and just values freedom and pursuit of happiness. As a Hindu, I guarantee that we would never ever allow any anti-American talk, any preaching of hate or violence, any talk of conversion - in our temples. Can you promise to do the same?
Why? Because enough is enough. That is why.
Kalidan
Why? Because your inaction, and tired lines ("Islam is a religion of peace") is making the native people suspicious of all immigrants. As if you, like me, have never been singled out at an airport and had your stuff rifled? Or are you waiting for Americans to insist that we sew our religious affiliations on our clothes, and concentrate us? I don't want to wait and see. Grief and anger makes a lot of people do things that they later claim to regret.
You and I - albeit from different countries and religions - came here to seek a better life, embrace western values, and live in civil society. We owe America love and respect. It is time for you to take responsibility for those seeking to pervert Islam, take control of what is being preached, and act to create a world for our children and grandchildren in America that knows no hate, and just values freedom and pursuit of happiness. As a Hindu, I guarantee that we would never ever allow any anti-American talk, any preaching of hate or violence, any talk of conversion - in our temples. Can you promise to do the same?
Why? Because enough is enough. That is why.
Kalidan
14
Hollande is running for a second term next year. There is no reason for the French to reelect him. His first term is a total failure. It seems to me like Hollande is just following the G W Bush path to reelection.
4
As a very trivial digression, where does Daesh get all of its flags made? The number of flags that I see while reading the news is staggering-even were they in a functioning city-state, but in an area that was third-world prior to being ravaged by war this doesn't seem possible!
1
Probably the same place they get all those new Toyota pickup trucks and SUVs.
2
As long as Western governments keep destabilizing Islamic countries they don't see eye to eye with and back other Islamic countries who are known to back terrorism either through government or wealthy individuals, this will be the norm of the future! Like washing machine stuck on the spin cycle!
1
Some of these Islamic countries are doing a good job at destabilizing themselves. In this part of the world, tribal differences are nothing new, and often go on for centuries
3
Most troubling is the fact that American tax dollars probably paid for that Humvee in the photo.
3
The still photos provided by the NYT and other media do not reflect the reality of what happened. Many of the victims were Muslim and of Berber, Arab, and African descent, which reflect the diversity of France. The same is true of the mourners and emergency personnel. Yet, you would think France is 99% white based on media reporting. The perpetrators of Friday's attack did care about the religion, ethnicity, race, gender, or sexual orientation of their victims. Please properly include this in your reporting.
1
Thanks for changing the headline using the term "mastermind" but it's still in the copy and I'm wondering why. How much mastery does it take to get cars and guns and shoot at people? As long as you have fanatics thinking they are going to heaven doing such acts we will sadly see more of this. What shall be done about believers in death cults - wishing to impose their views on to others using violence and motivated to suicide? There are no nice options.
2
To the press. Please do not sensationalize the event more than it needs to. It sells papers but it gives undue attention to the events which is what they want.
The leaders of countries are made, or broken, by the crises they face. Few of us make better decisions under great pressure, but some do. This is how Abraham Lincoln got to be considered one of our greatest Presidents. President Hollande is under a lot of pressure now, but he needs to step back from the brink and realize that fulminating about the Islamic State 4 days after their vicious attack on his country is not in his, or France's best interests. There have been no more attacks, and the dead and wounded are being tended to. France has suffered another grave set of injustices, and yet more tragedies this year. Find those responsible, and administer justice to them. This will require time, patience, and determination. But don't turn the country into a perpetual state of emergency, and don't declare it a war zone.
58
Did you not read the article, Mr. Little?
There have been no attacks since the event, specifically because the State moved forward to aggressively root out other terrorist located in France.
There have been no attacks since the event, specifically because the State moved forward to aggressively root out other terrorist located in France.
Mr. Obama says that we shouldn't close our hearts to people who are suffering just because of these terrorist attacks. We then have CIA chief Brennan complaining that he's hamstrung due to surveillance laws and can't effectively track alleged terrorist communications. If you want an open door immigration policy you then need to have an open- Internet policy, free of unnecessary gov't surveillance. If you want to be able to filter Internet traffic and monitor suspected terrorists, you need to limit, screen and monitor incoming migrants. Just because they SAY they are refugees fleeing war and mayhem, doesn't mean that they are, as the Paris bombings have proved. MR. Obama really has some convoluted ideas on how to fight terrorists, so far they haven't worked and have made matters worse. Members of his staff that are giving him advice in this matter truly are an incompetent bunch of Harvard educated egomaniacs. Allow an unlimited, unvetted "refugees" into Europe and the U.S. but all governments need to vet Internet traffic , even from day-to-day innocent web surfers. Obama needs to step back, look at what he has just said and realize his remarks defy common sense, in the security sense of it. He needs to stop playing politics, trying to win over immigrant groups for the Democratic Party side, this is our country's and Europe's survival at stake here, not some self- centered , selfish political power trip he steadfastly refuses to acknowledge.
3
While my heart goes out to refugees from Syria and other oppressed peoples I will request that our law enforcement and immigration people do their jobs in vetting who they let into our country.
There are no rules for ISIS terrorists and while our President has said in the past that he does not want to place troops on the ground the situation has changed from what is now to what it was 6 months ago to 1 year ago. And thus with it's evolution new plans need to be made.
God help us all.
There are no rules for ISIS terrorists and while our President has said in the past that he does not want to place troops on the ground the situation has changed from what is now to what it was 6 months ago to 1 year ago. And thus with it's evolution new plans need to be made.
God help us all.
1
I have always called them as well as always heard them called ski masks my entire life, because I live in the U.S. I assume. Since the NY Times is a U.S. business, why do they call them by the Russian name balaclava? Balaclava is the name of a Crimean town.
The best way for ISIS to expand the Caliphate is to force Muslims from their homes and into other countries to settle and eventually become radicalized in greater numbers than what we are seeing today. That is the long game and they are in it for the long haul. Think of how the number of Muslim ghettos has grown across Europe and then think of that number ten fold as more Muslims pour into cities and fail to assimilate themselves. The west is facilitating the expansion of the Caliphate by accepting the refugees many of which will become dissatisfied with their lives. Radicalization follows and then acts of terror. The west is naive to believe that acts of kindness and humanity will defeat an ideology based on vengeance and hate for the infidels and all other cultures.
11
President Obama's comment makes me wonder what his thoughts would have been in the 1940's;would he have not gone into Europe because of the battles in Asia or Africa? His rationale for not using American ground troops is ridiculous and only fuels the strength of the Isis group.
1
Perhaps this will bring among so many other issues a thought about creating and consuming movies and games full of suffering, blood and violence.
2
about the only advice I can give to Hollande at this time is to not go looking for advice from anybody from the Bush 43 Administration. In fact, that is the worst place he could go to seek advice on what to do regarding this issue.
2
Please don't use the work "masterminded" where planned will do. Calling the planning of such demented, evil and inhuman undertaking the result of any kind of mind outside of a diseased one is wholly inaccurate.
1
Every Muslim refugee that Europe admits today is a potential terrorist, whether today or in five, ten, or twenty years time. We can bomb the Islamic State in Syria all we want, but violent jihadism is an idea rooted in a particular interpretation of Islam, not a building or oil refinery that can be blown up; 14 years after 9/11 and thousands of bombs dropped, bullets fired, and militants killed, this idea is still alive and well, and proving to be an attractive force for thousands of young Muslims. Most of the terrorists were second generation immigrants from Islamic nations who were radicalized IN Europe as European citizens, went to fight in Syria, and returned to perpetrate these horrible attacks. Thousands of their fellow European Muslims are fighting for ISIS in Syria right now and might return to do the same.
Even if European security agencies were to vet these refugees (which they clearly did not, given that one of the attackers was indeed posing as one), there is no guarantee that a non-violent refugee or his children will not become a violent jihadist tomorrow. To European leaders I say help the refugees, yes, but not at the expense of your people's security. Send them back.
Even if European security agencies were to vet these refugees (which they clearly did not, given that one of the attackers was indeed posing as one), there is no guarantee that a non-violent refugee or his children will not become a violent jihadist tomorrow. To European leaders I say help the refugees, yes, but not at the expense of your people's security. Send them back.
11
These are the predictable perils of allowing large numbers of immigrants into your country. France should've learned after Algeria in the 60's that it does them little good to have a couple million flood your cities to establish terrorist cauldrons/Little Algiers everywhere. A modern-day Paul Aussaresses could fix this in short order but it wouldn't play well in the media and might take a few years and get in the way of the people's lifestyle. It's pretty simple: if you allow enough carte blanche immigration from africa and the middle east into your country, your country will start to look like africa and the middle east. It seems like a pretty easy choice to (1) wipe out islamists and all of their active AND tacit supporters (2) support good leaders in africa and the middle east (3) restrict immigration to levels/criteria that support the needs of sovereign nations (e.g. keep your surly deadbeats, criminals and nutty islamists but we'll take your computer engineers).
1
When I see the refugees coming off the boats into Greece I see a lot of able bodied men in the groups. I believe that all male refugees between the ages of 16 and 80 should be drafted into a Free Syrian Army. They should receive military training and equipment in Europe. They should return to Syria as a disciplined Army led by Coalition officers and focused on eradicating ISIL. Relatively speaking ISIL is not that big a fighting force, and they are out numbered by the Middle East males fleeing them.
8
There is no way to vet any immigrant to the U.S., short of closing our doors to anyone who has any connections with Islam. But it is galling to watch the terrorist's brother's lack of feeling as he talked to the French press. It is also very hard to believe, given the picture of his brother shown here, that he didn't know what was going on. France has a huge problem, but as of now there is nothing standing in the way of such a thing happening here.
6
So now our genius leaders think the solution is to bomb the fuel trucks driven by desperate civilians trying to make some sort of living for their families. These trucks were off the list of targets until now for that very reason.
The drivers are ordinary civilians. Surely our leaders could at least have let the local population know, starting next week, fuel trucks will be exploded.
Instead, we just go and suddenly start to bomb these trucks driven by civilians with no warning.
Guess what their sons and daughters are now going to do.....join ISIS.
Our leaders got us into this mess because they are ignorant.
We elected them and keep electing them.
So guess what that means?
The drivers are ordinary civilians. Surely our leaders could at least have let the local population know, starting next week, fuel trucks will be exploded.
Instead, we just go and suddenly start to bomb these trucks driven by civilians with no warning.
Guess what their sons and daughters are now going to do.....join ISIS.
Our leaders got us into this mess because they are ignorant.
We elected them and keep electing them.
So guess what that means?
2
Disagree, the drivers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing.
Forgive me, they are a pipeline to keeping those in their small world in power.
Nail them, nail every line.
Forgive me, they are a pipeline to keeping those in their small world in power.
Nail them, nail every line.
3
I'm sure that any of the drivers of these vehicles were WELL aware of the possibility of being smoked by a bomb when they took the job, so sorry, they don't have my sympathy.
3
I vote Democrat but I think in this case, President Obama's naivete has been troubling. The president says that we need keep welcoming Syrian refugees because they are also the victims of terrorism. This is lazy thinking. We do not need to oscillate between the extremes (Trump vs. Obama). We need some innovative steps - like pressuring our allies like Saudi/Iraq to take a majority of these refugees. Just like we gave money to Mexico to stop the central american immigrants at Mexico's southern border, we could pay money to our ME allies to take in these refugees. We could also use these very able bodied men to create a Syrian security force to counter ISIS. After all, 3/5th of the refugees are young men. If they are motivated to cross oceans then they should be motivated to defend their homeland.
7
Obama is pandering to the immigrant rights groups. He wants them to support the Democratic party. Common sense has no place in politics.
3
We can defeat these killers without losing one American or European life.
Set fire to the Saudi oil fields that provide the money that supports this terror.
Burn the asset that pays for this carnage. Let it all go up in flames.
Set fire to the Saudi oil fields that provide the money that supports this terror.
Burn the asset that pays for this carnage. Let it all go up in flames.
10
I think Exxon/Mobil and Shell Oil will have a lot to say about that. Didn't they encourage Bush/Cheney's plan to invade Iraq back in '03? Big Oil rules foreign policy in the U.S. and Europe.
4
Let us spare a moment to honor all the lives lost in Paris - Please take a moment to review the victims list. You will find Muslims in the list. Those terrorists should be looked upon as killing machines - They lacked compassion and it did not matter to them whether the victims were Muslims or not. Not a single soul was to be spared in their operation. There is definitely a battle here - but it is against a group of highly defiled and corrupted minds whose goal is to unleash suffering on the rest of the humanity. By labeling this as a war against religion, let us not fall into the trap of providing recruitment material for these organizations.
133
The Muslims were killed because they were seen as apostates---since they were out partying in Western decadence. This has nothing to do with 'defiled and corrupted minds" This is a religious war. Do not infantilize or marginalize this enemy. The extremist Muslims of ISIS are completely logical based on their beliefs: they believe that their religion demands that the everyone in the world becomes their version of Islam or they die. Period. They believe their religion demands gays and Jews to be murdered, because they are gays and Jews. They believe that women are second class citizens or not even citizens. They believe in a violent authoritarian rule that values no art, no music, no poetry, no science, no math It values only itself. Period.
This is a war of religion & values, and right now only one side knows this. Merely mouthing platitudes about loving everyone means nothing to these people--indeed, the liberal ideals of tolerance, equalizing of diversity, freedom of speech, freedom of women & gays, --All these are an anathema to them. Gushing about secular multicultural understanding only shows how foreign we are and how we need to be destroyed.
Burying your head in the sand & denying reality might make you temporarily feel good & powerful & in control - there is a long sad history of appeasers and deniers - but it doesn't even remotely solve the problem.
This is a war of religion & values, and right now only one side knows this. Merely mouthing platitudes about loving everyone means nothing to these people--indeed, the liberal ideals of tolerance, equalizing of diversity, freedom of speech, freedom of women & gays, --All these are an anathema to them. Gushing about secular multicultural understanding only shows how foreign we are and how we need to be destroyed.
Burying your head in the sand & denying reality might make you temporarily feel good & powerful & in control - there is a long sad history of appeasers and deniers - but it doesn't even remotely solve the problem.
Hear hear.
Thank you for your words of wisdom. You are right to remind us that Isis has no problem killing Muslims in addition to Christians, Jews, atheists, agnostics, & anyone else they target.
Inasmuch as both France and Belgium have large, significantly disenfranchised Muslim communities; it might best serve their interests to reconsider readmitting those back into the country who have recently visited certain countries, with certain known affiliations. At this point, it's worth the extra precaution.
162
Yes, it might just best serve their interests.
N.Smith of NYC: I believe the current feeling in France and Belgium is more along the lines of "What Have We Done?" and start ways of sealing their borders, getting the undesirables back to their native countries whenever possible, and definitely not letting those back into the country who have recently visited certain countries. with as you say, "known affiliations". That's worth the extra precaution.
Certainly peace marches, sympathetic notes, and asking everyone to just get along does not work with people who are willing to blow themselves up. These attacks have long been predicted and than ignored. This will come to the US at some point and time. The signs are being ignored by people who are naive to the point of being a danger to us all.
1
"President Obama on Monday again ruled out a ground intervention. 'Let’s assume that we were to send 50,000 troops into Syria,' he said at a gathering of leaders of the Group of 20 industrial and emerging-market economies in Antalya, Turkey. 'What happens when there’s a terrorist attack generated from Yemen? Do we then send troops into there? Or Libya, perhaps?'"
What if a terrorist attack originates from the planet Vulcan, smarty-pants? Fred Kagan calls Obama "the master of split-the-difference military policy." Which, besides being funny, is true: "I think we should keep a thousand troops in Afghanistan; the generals say closer to ten thousand; let's split the difference and go fifty-five hundred." It's, like, rather arbitrary, isn't it?
The face he makes when he thinks someone who questions his foreign policy proposes something simply outlandish as an alternative is priceless. It's like, "Say what?" From now on, his generals should propose double what they actually desire; that way they'll be assured, once he splits the difference, of getting the requisite amount.
Two things are quite clear. First, that if America would lead this fight, we could pretty easily piece together a coalition and Sunni/Kurd forces to hold any taken territory. Second, we aren't going to do that, not under this president, not anytime soon. His policy is inadequate because it's too slow, therefore too dangerous; and given the rate at which Islamic State replenishes, Sisyphean.
What if a terrorist attack originates from the planet Vulcan, smarty-pants? Fred Kagan calls Obama "the master of split-the-difference military policy." Which, besides being funny, is true: "I think we should keep a thousand troops in Afghanistan; the generals say closer to ten thousand; let's split the difference and go fifty-five hundred." It's, like, rather arbitrary, isn't it?
The face he makes when he thinks someone who questions his foreign policy proposes something simply outlandish as an alternative is priceless. It's like, "Say what?" From now on, his generals should propose double what they actually desire; that way they'll be assured, once he splits the difference, of getting the requisite amount.
Two things are quite clear. First, that if America would lead this fight, we could pretty easily piece together a coalition and Sunni/Kurd forces to hold any taken territory. Second, we aren't going to do that, not under this president, not anytime soon. His policy is inadequate because it's too slow, therefore too dangerous; and given the rate at which Islamic State replenishes, Sisyphean.
1
David L. Jr: Right on David. We have done such a great job in Iraq and Afghanistan that invading the rest of the Middle East should be a snap.
1
EU countries should close their borders to this flood of economic immigrants among whom are many disaffected young men of fighting age and come from a country riven by religious hatred.
If the current crop of leaders dont stop this flood then the right will come to power and do it for them - along with some other very nasty stuff including removing the social safety net.
If the current crop of leaders dont stop this flood then the right will come to power and do it for them - along with some other very nasty stuff including removing the social safety net.
5
please tell that to Obama and Merkel, they have deaf ears and a warped idea of common sense.
1
The commentators on this thread live in a magical world. Where people who indiscriminately butcher the innocents can be reasoned with. Where people who strap on explosive belts and detonate them in the crowd can be appeased by simply "leaving them along". Where this savage medieval blood thirst is caused by western policy failures. Where in response to slaughter we are to wring our hands and examine our flaws. Where this evil will never touch them. This world is more magical than than Alice's Wonderland . And no more real.
5
The president called these people the JV team and when pressed on Isis he changed the subject that he's concentrating on global warming. He seems to be burnt out and seems to be like that employee in the company counting his days to retirement.
1
when real problems need real answers, i noticed he always passes on a solution or lets his aides call the shots
2
The comparisons with 2003 betray a lack of serious thought.
The invasion of Iraq was based on deceit and outright lies. The administration was incompetent at best and at worst willfully deceived the American people. There was not strong and verifiable intel that the public could assess.
In this situation, we know clearly and often directly the regime we are targeting. ISIS has stated unequivocally that they want to destroy the West, and in the modern social media age anyone can verify their capabilities, intentions, and past acts.
So no, the connections are not convincing and we are not committing ourselves to the same unfounded quagmire. Who knows if we will succeed, but we are not crazy to target these barbarians.
The invasion of Iraq was based on deceit and outright lies. The administration was incompetent at best and at worst willfully deceived the American people. There was not strong and verifiable intel that the public could assess.
In this situation, we know clearly and often directly the regime we are targeting. ISIS has stated unequivocally that they want to destroy the West, and in the modern social media age anyone can verify their capabilities, intentions, and past acts.
So no, the connections are not convincing and we are not committing ourselves to the same unfounded quagmire. Who knows if we will succeed, but we are not crazy to target these barbarians.
211
the Iraqi war in my opinion was started at the behest of our Big Oil Companies... profits for them; thousands killed and a huge budget deficit for us.
1
I never agreed with us going to Iraq to me it was a mistake but once we were there we needed to finish the JOB and Obama refuse to just as he keeps calling then a JV team & now he refuses to acknowledge what is going on...that ocean is not going to stop then they will be here in a snap.....maybe when we have another 9/11 he will wake up.....war may be the wrong word but they have to be stop he has no plans in place..they are ruthless..my prayers to the people of France.
Rather than taking away privileges of freedom from the overwhelmingly compliant masses of citizens, why don't we focus on the noncompliant minority , ie, those who travel to Syria, etc for radicalization, and in an emergency state, which France is declared to be in, revoke their French citizenship when they leave for one of those countries, without prior approval from the French government.
124
What privileges of freedom are they sacrificing? They are a small sacrifice in order to secure their country from further attack.
What I'm finding fascinating is that people want "the bad ones" dealt with and "the good ones" supported. That knowledge would happen how? Well, a country can just wait until they do something, uh, "bad," or try the spying techniques that people apparently don't want, because they're, uh, "bad." The fuzzy logic is breathtaking. Save us, Anonymous.
GMR of Atlanta: NOBODY travels to Syria these days for a pleasant vacation. Wake up!
Hope everyone realizes that France is using the term war for the same reason bush did in 2001. By calling this act of horrific criminal murder and act of war it triggers international agreements and international law. NATO is obligated to come to the defense of nations attacked in acts of war. And do not know about the French government, but bush tried to justify almost dictatorial powers - like setting up an unconstitutional court system, an illegal prison camp at Gitmo, illegal surveillance, torture, black site torture facilities, mass arrests, all under his "commander in chief" powers because he had self declared that we were at war.
118
When a state is attacked by another self-declared state, the term war correctly follows from that circumstance. The choice to either surrender or defend itself by whatever means at it's disposal--or to only survive if it can do so by methods you approve of, is a secondary matter.
2
Usually Congress declares war, or at least it should if they were to follow the constitution.
re: John
And what would your have had Bush or the French do?
Say to the terrorists, "pretty please, don't attack us"?
Frankly, your views are just as dangerous as those of the terrorists, because in the real world terrorists, such as ISIS, do not play by the Marquis of Queensberry rules.
And what would your have had Bush or the French do?
Say to the terrorists, "pretty please, don't attack us"?
Frankly, your views are just as dangerous as those of the terrorists, because in the real world terrorists, such as ISIS, do not play by the Marquis of Queensberry rules.
1
We are at war with a group of fanatics who believe their God given mandate is to subjugate or exterminate all of us who do not share their maniacal beliefs. They have tens of thousands of willing and able troops, many of whom have passports that allow them to easily infiltrate the west. They have tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars of oil revenue to fund their activities and a billion dollars worth of US military equipment that we left behind in Iraq. We have a well equipped enemy with fierce beliefs and many who are willing to die for their cause. If we think anything other than a pretty large ground invasion is going to stop them we are just kidding ourselves. Obama is about to pull of the impossible and leave the world in a much worse place than when he took over. Shame on him and shame on us for allowing it.
5
why not also declare war on our own religious fanatics who bend over backwards to deny civil liberties to everyone who isn't a straight, god fearing christian? There are millions of them here in our country.
2
I think you are wrong on just about every point, the Kurds are already driving them back with our air support, we are hitting their refineries , POL trucks, and infrastructure, they are far from unbeatable and are also suffering from defections within their ranks. The President has presided over a rebounding economy, the dimunition of Al Queda,and his ,sane ,sober ( read not panicking or fear mongering like the GOP clown chorus), and intelligent response bodes well for future success against this foe.
I would if they start killing innocent people.
2
20 bombs is not a "massive" raid; it is more like a PR display of the French. 6 months after Pearl Harbor we were in Guadancanal and had Midway. We have had 14 years of wrong turns after 9/11/2001.
The American, British, French, German peoples, and the rest on the planet deserve better.
Holland, with Obama, Cameron, and Merkel are like knights riding on white horses over the crests of the global oceans. They believe they are infallible, admiiting an error is a weakness, and have an inordinate concern for their legacy.
For them, safety and rights of Daesh civilians are paramount. Refugees are sacrosanct even at there is risk of 1 in 100 being a Daesh mole. We their constituents however are just chopped liver.
The prime minister of Hungary on the other hand, is a patriot ready to sacrifice his own reputation for the safety of his citizens.
The American, British, French, German peoples, and the rest on the planet deserve better.
Holland, with Obama, Cameron, and Merkel are like knights riding on white horses over the crests of the global oceans. They believe they are infallible, admiiting an error is a weakness, and have an inordinate concern for their legacy.
For them, safety and rights of Daesh civilians are paramount. Refugees are sacrosanct even at there is risk of 1 in 100 being a Daesh mole. We their constituents however are just chopped liver.
The prime minister of Hungary on the other hand, is a patriot ready to sacrifice his own reputation for the safety of his citizens.
4
Meantime, the usual claque of jingos is whooping it up for sending a US army to the Middle East. As long as it doesn't involve their kids, of course.
19
Our armed forces are VOLUNTEERS! They are willing to go and defend this country. If you don't want to send our troops into battle, bring back the draft! Then you can have a say in the matter. Until then keep quiet.
Charlie Rangel suggested reinstituting the draft a few years ago, because he knew that if troops were committed to battle, there would be an outcry, but he was laughed down. Actually, we do need the draft, for both men and women--equal rights you know. It would shape up these whiny Gen-E types once they got a taste of discipline.
Charlie Rangel suggested reinstituting the draft a few years ago, because he knew that if troops were committed to battle, there would be an outcry, but he was laughed down. Actually, we do need the draft, for both men and women--equal rights you know. It would shape up these whiny Gen-E types once they got a taste of discipline.
Belgium is a perfect example of why we don't want to allow Syrian immigrants into the United States.
Western countries should join together to provide a safe zone and aid to these refugees in their home countries until peace can be established.
Western countries should join together to provide a safe zone and aid to these refugees in their home countries until peace can be established.
8
What keeps coming to my mind as I read of these young men and women who give up their lives as suicide bombers is why? What is it that motivates them to destroy themselves? It can't be just the promise of dancing virgins waiting for them as Heaven's gate; that might work for some really stupid boys but what about the smarter ones and the women? Is it just the old situation of the "have-nots" hating the "haves?" Having seen pictures of how the French Arabs live in their crummy tenements, and read of their high unemployment rates, I can certainly understand the appeal of the radical Islamists who recruit them. After Charlie Hebdo I understand that some measures were taken to try to integrate these people into mainstream French culture: I don't know how much was done in this effort or how successful it was.
I wonder, when these young terrorists are arrested are they ever questioned about their motivations? I doubt it. We cast them into the role of enemy, which they are, but don't give them the benefit of wondering why they do these things.
We need more creative thinkers in our government, not just politicians who only react with military action.. Remember back in the 60's when some inspired people came up with the idea of the Peace Corps? Exporting what makes our country great, actually helping people live better lives, was an amazing idea. We need more creative ideas to resolve these problems. Let's try to resolve these horrific problems at the root..
I wonder, when these young terrorists are arrested are they ever questioned about their motivations? I doubt it. We cast them into the role of enemy, which they are, but don't give them the benefit of wondering why they do these things.
We need more creative thinkers in our government, not just politicians who only react with military action.. Remember back in the 60's when some inspired people came up with the idea of the Peace Corps? Exporting what makes our country great, actually helping people live better lives, was an amazing idea. We need more creative ideas to resolve these problems. Let's try to resolve these horrific problems at the root..
5
The main reason the Middle East has been the center of attention for the past 50 years is the oil. Diminish the importance of their oil and you marginalize their relevance in the political world. As much controversy as there is with fracking as well as the consequence of fossil fuels, it has begun to set the west free from their tyranny over us.
4
The Middle East has been the center of attention because of their violent response to every situation. And that goes for ALL the actors. We're producing oil at a phenomenal rate, yet there are still bombing, beheadings, bonfires using people as kindling, gassing, etc.
1
The West is mainly responsible - since we are part of the civilized world- on what is happening on the Middle East. It would interesting if you check the presidential messages of Gerald Ford regarding this complex issue. Ford practically begged the congress in order to expedite and approved the necessary changes to reduce our oil dependence. The oil lobbies , run by ourselves and big corporations, were the one in charge. Notice that on November 13 1918 France and other two Europeans powers took over Constantinople and dismembered to former Ottoman Empire. It was under a Caliphate back then. ISIL wants to restore a Caliphate in the region. Yes, it has to do with oil, with our spoiled lifestyle and the consequences of the Iraq invasion.
I have been a pretty consistent supporter of President Obama HOWEVER I disagree with his policy regarding the Middle East. I'm fully well aware that he inherited a disaster thanks to the ill-conceived policies of his predecessor but now, nearing the end of his presidency, he's had more than enough time to FIX IT and he hasn't. He says, to paraphrase, that sending 50,000 troops into Syria is one step and what would we do if an attack came from Yemen or Libya. I understand that there's "Mid-East creep" that can easily happen in these god-forsaken countries BUT if major terror networks operate out of Yemen we have to go eradicate them - same for Libya and same for Syria. NO ONE wants to go to war anywhere in the world BUT the duty of our government is to keep us safe. We also have an alliance, NATO, that states "an attack on a member is an attack on all". Well WHAT was Paris if not an attack? Same as 9/11. These are subhumans that must be eradicated. Moreover we must be ready to participate in STATE-BUILDING in these countries that are, more or less, anarchic. No one would claim that task will be easy and surely it won't be fast BUT we have no alternative if we want to live in a world free of the SCOURGE of this ISIS and their ilk.
7
Daily we read and hear Western nations talking of ways to attack ISIS. How often do we hear of Arab nations doing the same?
Islam understands Islam far better than we do; they need to step in and help end the murderous scourge within them.
Islam understands Islam far better than we do; they need to step in and help end the murderous scourge within them.
13
Turkey, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, various Kurdish factions and Qatar are all Muslim states fighting ISIS. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states are involved to a lesser extent, but are spending more effort in Yemen.
Indeed, a country that cannot protect its citizens trying to live peacefully in their own capital is not much of a state, let alone one that claims the leadership role of a permanent member of the U.N. Security Council. However, words have consequences. If President Hollande really means what he says (and he better be -- in his position), he will have to back his words by hitting hard ISIS using ground troops -- as many as it takes to deny the enemy safe heavens wherever it is. It is clear that a few (or even many) bombing raids are not going to get the job done. Every other consideration (e.g., limiting budget deficits) becomes secondary. Moreover, the rest of NATO will have to back France up with all its military might if necessary. If NATO cannot support one of its major member-states at war, it would not be much of a military alliance.
5
France left the military arm of NATO decades ago. They kicked SHAPE out of Paris which is why they have sat in a temporary building in Moms, BE for about 50 years. France participates in the political arm, but have been gradually reintegrating in military ops. Unfortunately, they made unilateral decisions to release intel gotten from NATO sources in some recent cases. Not exactly a confidence builder for NATO Military. Perhaps this unfortunate experience will bring them back into the fold,
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:
I do not believe Mohamed Abdeslam's claim that he and family were unaware his siblings were involved in ISIS activities. Of course he knew and he may be radicalized himself. He (and the rest of his family) should have been detained indefinitely as enemies of the state instead of being granted fifteen minutes of fame.
13
It's this kind of paranoia that ISIS wishes to cause. Please don't aid them.
1
Lynn in DC: Do you know everything everyone in your family has done, is doing and will do? Do you know everyone's secrets? I doubt it. So don't claim that the families of these terrorist knew that their children would become terroists.
1
Not sure where you get your information from, but many people, even white middle-class American Christians, do not know the double lives that their relatives are leading. If that has not happened in your family yet, then be grateful, but there is no reason for you to attack others.
1
The solution is a simple one, but how long will it take to accept the inevitable?
3
Merkel is going to lose her job over this.
As will any elected official that continues with the crazy policy of letting 1 million economic immigrants onto social security and creating a breeding ground for social unrest.
Crazy.
Close the borders.
As will any elected official that continues with the crazy policy of letting 1 million economic immigrants onto social security and creating a breeding ground for social unrest.
Crazy.
Close the borders.
27
I thought the Iraq War would be a military blunder in the lead-up to the vote for the resolution to go to war. It reminded me too much of LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin resolution. I know, of course, that's ancient history, even to the educated and informed readers of the NYT. But I served as a medical corpsman in Vietnam. The Vietnam War still bothers me a great deal as it does a lot of Vietnam veterans. Discussing the Vietnam War has about as much relevance to moist Americans as talking about The Peloponnesian War between Athens and Sparta. Americans could care less about the lessons of history and how to avoid them in the future. But never in my wildest imagination did I think the Iraq War would spin so horribly out of control as it has with this sectarian violence between the Sunnis and the Shiites and unleash deep bitter hatred for the the West that has so enraged these jihadis in al Qaeda and ISIS and the many radical rebels in Syria.. This war now even surpasses the Vietnam as a foreign policy debacle. That amazes me.
I hope Hollande doesn't literally mean a ground war in Syria. France has done enough damage leading Nato in its bombing campaign during the Libyan civil war. It turned that once oil-rich country into Somalia on the Mediterranean. Ironically, ISIS exploited the chaos in the aftermath of that war and has a branch firmly planted in that country. It's a failed state.
It's seems common sense the West has to stop dropping bombs on innocent Muslim civilians.
I hope Hollande doesn't literally mean a ground war in Syria. France has done enough damage leading Nato in its bombing campaign during the Libyan civil war. It turned that once oil-rich country into Somalia on the Mediterranean. Ironically, ISIS exploited the chaos in the aftermath of that war and has a branch firmly planted in that country. It's a failed state.
It's seems common sense the West has to stop dropping bombs on innocent Muslim civilians.
21
It did occur to me that the invasion of Iraq would lead to chaos and a subsequent insurgency and that because Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld did not wish to commit the kind of numbers of troops recommended by Generals who had fought in Vietnam, that we were going to experience a lot of pain and frustration. But every intelligent and thoughtful person with whom I spoke was concerned about the weapons of mass destruction.
It was no surprise to many of us who had spent time in Iraq, that things were going to unravel. The hate level for the west was very obvious. UNICEF reported at the time that over two hundred and fifty thousand Iraqi children had died as a direct result of the sanctions alone. People in the west have no idea of the pain and agony we have inflicted on these people. A million people fled to Syria at that time trying to escape the total misery in Iraq. This placed an enormous amount of burden on the Syrian government as they tried to provide jobs, housing and education for all these people. This played a major role in the breakdown of Syria's communities and to the problems we see today. It amazes me that Hilary Clinton seems oblivious to the mess created by US policies in the middle east.
I was on local radio before the 911 attacks and I had said at that time that it would seem likely that the towers would be attacked. Yet everyone seemed surprised. (They had been targeted before and were such a big symbol of American power.I am quite sure the new tower will be the target of a major attack again.)
Most people in the west had no idea of the level of pain and hatred that we have created in the middle east. The biggest mistake we make is to think this is about religion.
Stop bombing people and destroying peoples lives and their hope for a future.
I was on local radio before the 911 attacks and I had said at that time that it would seem likely that the towers would be attacked. Yet everyone seemed surprised. (They had been targeted before and were such a big symbol of American power.I am quite sure the new tower will be the target of a major attack again.)
Most people in the west had no idea of the level of pain and hatred that we have created in the middle east. The biggest mistake we make is to think this is about religion.
Stop bombing people and destroying peoples lives and their hope for a future.
2
I was a Marine 03 during the Vietnam war, and I totally agree. I think the killings in Paris were terrible but for Hollande to say we are now at war with ISIS when they have been bombing them for some time, is a bit disingenuous to me. I keep hoping that this sabre rattling by everybody is just for home consumption. What I would like to see and what we must see in order to turn all this around is some intelligent diplomacy, and actions such embargoing ME oil, and admitting that besides our invasion of Iraq, the financing of extremist by the Saudis and other 'allies' in the region must come to a stop.
2
Hopefully, out of this tragic violent acts against the French, all of Europe will wake up and stop being so naive about immigrants coming to their shores from the Middle East. Europe invites persons from there with good intentions, but (obviously) doesn't promise immigrants\refugees anything other than providing an un-guaranteed chance to better their positions in ways they could not in the home country. Not achieving that, a number of immigrants\refugees, especially young men, become bitter and hostile against the very Europe who opened their doors in the first place. This open-door-at-an-unguaranteed-chance-at-betterment-breeds-hostility-and-VIOLENCE is not an aberration but a function of the paradigm through which young immigrant\refugee men begin to understand who they are, with the resulting turn to radical Islam and maybe even violence the obvious apotheosis of many of these persons' self-actualization. Long and short: Europe simply has to stop **welcoming** immigrants\refugees like it does. They need to be more like the US, ie realistic as opposed to naieve.
14
Did U.S. policy keep the 9/11 attackers out?
What were their Secret Services doing ? Wasn't Charlie Hebdo a wake up call , enough of a reason for them to conduct systematic checks in their banlieues where elements of Islamic extremism have been present the whole time?
This wasn't an isolated incident, but a large scale , masterminded operation! When arms are not even allowed in that country by constitution how on earth were these individuals able to circulate freely carrying AK-57 in the middle of Paris. The same thing happened in the TGV back in August! Seriously, France has inherited a huge problem because of their feelings of guiltiness and social & moral responsibility of their past colonial policies and are so blind-sighted and don't dare to do a systematic cleaning of those people who want to destabilize France.
Hollande is an incapable leader who proclaimed the same after Charlie Hebdo. Everything will fall into the previous silence in three weeks from now and same story all over again
This wasn't an isolated incident, but a large scale , masterminded operation! When arms are not even allowed in that country by constitution how on earth were these individuals able to circulate freely carrying AK-57 in the middle of Paris. The same thing happened in the TGV back in August! Seriously, France has inherited a huge problem because of their feelings of guiltiness and social & moral responsibility of their past colonial policies and are so blind-sighted and don't dare to do a systematic cleaning of those people who want to destabilize France.
Hollande is an incapable leader who proclaimed the same after Charlie Hebdo. Everything will fall into the previous silence in three weeks from now and same story all over again
5
Here's some concrete solutions to this:
1) Deport and rescind citizenship for anyone with a remote active connection to a terrorist incident or failed plot, or who preaches hate or encourages others to hate. Don't just put them under "surveillance".
2) Armed and trained under-cover security at all major public events such as converts and theaters. Would be expensive but would have saved dozens of lives in this incident. NOT armed civilians, that's just dumb.
3) Open borders need to go. The EU external borders are a joke. Europeans can still live and work anywhere they want, its not a big deal to have to show your passport at borders. This step would likely have stopped the assault weapons making it to France.
4) All Syrian refugees need to be accommodated in UN refugee camps in the middle east. We have just seen two of the terrorists come into Europe by pretending to be Syrian refugees. The idea that millions of young Muslim men can be allowed walk into Europe without us having a clue who they are needs to be put to bed once and for all, and aggressively so.
1) Deport and rescind citizenship for anyone with a remote active connection to a terrorist incident or failed plot, or who preaches hate or encourages others to hate. Don't just put them under "surveillance".
2) Armed and trained under-cover security at all major public events such as converts and theaters. Would be expensive but would have saved dozens of lives in this incident. NOT armed civilians, that's just dumb.
3) Open borders need to go. The EU external borders are a joke. Europeans can still live and work anywhere they want, its not a big deal to have to show your passport at borders. This step would likely have stopped the assault weapons making it to France.
4) All Syrian refugees need to be accommodated in UN refugee camps in the middle east. We have just seen two of the terrorists come into Europe by pretending to be Syrian refugees. The idea that millions of young Muslim men can be allowed walk into Europe without us having a clue who they are needs to be put to bed once and for all, and aggressively so.
18
@Caezar
Agreed on all points. They should have ditched 'Schengen' a long time ago. And someone needs to seriously talk with Frau Merkel.
Agreed on all points. They should have ditched 'Schengen' a long time ago. And someone needs to seriously talk with Frau Merkel.
2
Silly Europeans, to think ISIS would be so naive as not to send dozens of terrorists throughout Europe and America.
5
They have brought in conventional weapons, guns and bombs, over and over. Its not a matter of if but when they bring in a dirty bomb or nuke and set it off. It will probably be in Paris, of course.
3
I gape at how these people can be so well known to intelligence services yet so difficult to detain. When is a government justified in arresting a terrorist cell? I recognize the civil liberties problem, but if we insist on upholding our core values like this, then obviously we should never grant asylum--much less citizenship!--to people who openly despise those values. How about this? No asylum to anyone who has attended a Saudi-funded madrassah, anyone who has celebrated a terrorist atrocity online, anyone who cannot state that his/her daughters have an inalienable right to choose their own male/female/atheist/Jewish sexual partners, anyone who cannot state that civil laws must forever take earthly precedence over Shariah, or anyone who cannot state that cartoons and mockery of Muhammad never warrant punishment, much less a threat of violence. We should pose many hours of these uncomfortable questions to all asylum seekers streaming into Europe, and well-trained government agents should gauge the responses.
5
There is a 1960 horror film called "Village of the Damned" about a spawn of demonic, murderous children without conscience or love. This has become reality in the form of radical Islam, Wahabism and ISIS. As in the film, there is only one way to rid the world of this scourge- by eliminating all of its members. The war against these sub-humans should have little or no resemblance to the last Iraq war. This should be a pest removal or killing field operation.
Then we will need to go after Wahabism in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. All of the naïve liberal Americans who are so worried about "Islamophobia" should spend a week in a Pakistan madrassa or Gaza school to learn what racial and religious hatred, misogyny and homophobia is really about.
Then we will need to go after Wahabism in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. All of the naïve liberal Americans who are so worried about "Islamophobia" should spend a week in a Pakistan madrassa or Gaza school to learn what racial and religious hatred, misogyny and homophobia is really about.
14
That movie scared the heck out of me as a child...
"France is at war."
Mr. Hollande, INSTEAD of being so quick to declare war (reminiscent of George W. Bush after 9/11)—
You go after those individuals specifically involved in these heinous crimes (like Mr. Abaaoud) with the help of your allies. We have the capability, especially in this age of drones and high tech commandos, to do this. Don't declare WAR.
Mr. Hollande, INSTEAD of being so quick to declare war (reminiscent of George W. Bush after 9/11)—
You go after those individuals specifically involved in these heinous crimes (like Mr. Abaaoud) with the help of your allies. We have the capability, especially in this age of drones and high tech commandos, to do this. Don't declare WAR.
7
Your thoughts are not just naive they are dangerous.
2
What happened in Paris was tragic but from these comments you'd think this was the worst from ISIS. Russia lost more citizens with the downing of their airplane in Egypt and it did not evoke the same outrage. The day before Paris, over 40 people were killed in Beirut and it did not evoke the same outrage. Boko Harem, now allied with ISIS, killed 150 students and teachers at a university in Kenya and it did not evoke the same outrage. Before that, 2000 Nigerians were also killed by Boko Harem and it did not evoke the same outrage. Finally, ISIS has killed far more Muslims than non-Muslims in countries like Iraq, Syria, Egypt and Libya. I mention these examples because it's going to take a united coalition to destroy ISIS. Please find it in your hearts to find solidarity with all victims of ISIS terrorism.
58
Will the NYT ever articulate what most Americans feel, but are afraid to say? Because of being called xenophobic, jingoistic, anti-Muslim, racist by the NYT and mainstream press? That we have a pro-Muslim President, anti-Israeli, whose main purpose is to avoid the mention of the words Muslim or Islam, to downplay the danger in this country and the world, and to let as many of these people into the country as possible - regardless of the dangers it poses to Americans? More importantly, will the NYT even print postings that articulate this viewpoint?
34
We need to help the refugees in their lands/ safe zones / refugee camps and not here in The States. Why in heavens name , do the rich Arab nations not step up and take them in???
1
You're wrong. He's pro-humanity, as you should be.
this American (who is in Paris on business right now) does not agree with you, Chris.
1
Why did France let the person they knew had a criminal record, knew had terrorist schemes, to stay in the country? Arrest, or deport and blacklist him. I am done walking on eggshells to avoid offending people's sensibilities! You have no constitutional or moral right to advocate the slaughter of innocents. You are not being persecuted when the government monitors your communication and finds you preach an ideology of religious warfare.
6
This response seems to simply validate the NIMBY attitude that Western countries seem to embrace with regard to terrorism. Dozens and sometimes hundreds of people are killed on a daily basis in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria by ISIS. Politicians meet and talk and talk and meet to discuss what they can do. Until the attack comes to their backyard. Suddenly there are hundreds of arrests and dozens of air strikes.
Not In My BackYard is the policy of choice for Western countries. Until they take the problem seriously for EVERY country that is a victim of terrorism, the terrorists have nothing to fear.
Not In My BackYard is the policy of choice for Western countries. Until they take the problem seriously for EVERY country that is a victim of terrorism, the terrorists have nothing to fear.
2
While I'm all for destroying ISIS, I don't really believe it makes sense. It's more than likely that they soon will be replaced by another west-hating militant group. Even more so when the West succeeds to remove Assad. I have not yet heard any ideas what's supposed to come after him: a western style parliamentary democracy? Does anybody believe that's going to last more than a year?
We, the ordinary people, don't have too much problems with ISIS activities in Syria and Iraq. It's the attacks here that are the threat. Better to concentrate on the homegrown and imported terrorists and supporters.
And why should we engage OUR ground troops while the military-age Iraqis and Syrians are meanwhile in Europe by hundredthousands, sipping tea and having a good time?
We, the ordinary people, don't have too much problems with ISIS activities in Syria and Iraq. It's the attacks here that are the threat. Better to concentrate on the homegrown and imported terrorists and supporters.
And why should we engage OUR ground troops while the military-age Iraqis and Syrians are meanwhile in Europe by hundredthousands, sipping tea and having a good time?
2
Hurrah for governors Wolf and Malloy ! And for all welcoming sisters and brothers.
I noted two very strange but credible stories from the Israeli news source Arutz Sheva.
First,
Iraq warned France of terror strike the day before Paris attacks
Iraqi intelligence warned that ISIS is planning attacks in Western countries, particularly France.
By Matt Wanderman
First Publish: 11/15/2015
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203425#.VknfuDZdGM9
Second, this same Israeli news source now claims: “The Islamic State (ISIS) terrorist group has released a new video in which it vows to strike Washington D.C., following Friday's coordinated attacks in Paris.”
No specific targets in Washington D.C. or in the US were stated.
ISIS threatens to strike Washington in new video
Following Paris attacks, ISIS spokesperson vows to hit American capital next.
By Arutz Sheva Staff
First Publish: 11/16/2015
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203465#.VknfIjZdGM8
There must be a lot of intelligence flowing out of the Middle East on the intentions and activities by ISIS.
The U.S. and Western intelligence agencies must be aware of these national security threats and risks by ISIS and must act accordingly.
God Bless France and America.
First,
Iraq warned France of terror strike the day before Paris attacks
Iraqi intelligence warned that ISIS is planning attacks in Western countries, particularly France.
By Matt Wanderman
First Publish: 11/15/2015
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203425#.VknfuDZdGM9
Second, this same Israeli news source now claims: “The Islamic State (ISIS) terrorist group has released a new video in which it vows to strike Washington D.C., following Friday's coordinated attacks in Paris.”
No specific targets in Washington D.C. or in the US were stated.
ISIS threatens to strike Washington in new video
Following Paris attacks, ISIS spokesperson vows to hit American capital next.
By Arutz Sheva Staff
First Publish: 11/16/2015
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/203465#.VknfIjZdGM8
There must be a lot of intelligence flowing out of the Middle East on the intentions and activities by ISIS.
The U.S. and Western intelligence agencies must be aware of these national security threats and risks by ISIS and must act accordingly.
God Bless France and America.
5
"...described Syria as “the biggest factory of terrorists the world has ever known.” "
Actually, Saudi Arabia is the biggest exporter of radical Islam (Wahabbism), but by now the miscreants have moved around. This is one reason the Saudis don't go after terrorists - both are Sunni. Syria has historically been Shiite, along with Iran, but Sunni terrorists moved into Syria to fight the Shiite government.
Muslims need to end their 1400 year old Sunni-Shiite war (over who was proper to succed Muhammad) and concentrate on fighting radical Islam - IF their leaders really consider terrorists evil, instead of freedom-fighting defenders of the truist Islam.
Actually, Saudi Arabia is the biggest exporter of radical Islam (Wahabbism), but by now the miscreants have moved around. This is one reason the Saudis don't go after terrorists - both are Sunni. Syria has historically been Shiite, along with Iran, but Sunni terrorists moved into Syria to fight the Shiite government.
Muslims need to end their 1400 year old Sunni-Shiite war (over who was proper to succed Muhammad) and concentrate on fighting radical Islam - IF their leaders really consider terrorists evil, instead of freedom-fighting defenders of the truist Islam.
9
France is at War says the subtitle. It will be interesting to see Mr. Obama's reaction if ISIS hits the U.S. Will Mr. Obama still contend his ISIS strategy is working? If one listens to the administration, one gets the feeling ISIS is on the ropes. Perhaps someone should tell them.
4
Pretty amazing proof of uselessness.
Every time this happens, I always read: "the suspect was under surveillance since 2010 or XXXX etc. and known to authorities as a terrorist suspect".
But it doesn't help when you let them do what they want instead of putting them in custody right away, does it?
Every time this happens, I always read: "the suspect was under surveillance since 2010 or XXXX etc. and known to authorities as a terrorist suspect".
But it doesn't help when you let them do what they want instead of putting them in custody right away, does it?
13
And consider the time, energy and money spent on surveillance of these potential terror suspects. Just get rid of these guys, all of them. Deport them back to where ever they came from. No second chances or 'hand-wringing'.
2
How could Belgium intelligence be forgetful; what is happening in their country?
4
Stop using the word "mastermind". It implies some kind of super intelligence. None is required to kill innocent bystanders in their own community.
17
Also, stop using the word 'architect' to describe the ring leader. It's an insult to real architects.
1
Agreed. I think they use it in an attempt to compensate for the spectacular intelligence and surveillance failures, now that we all know this guy and others should have been locked up years ago.
1
Looking for that guy? Just ask Ben Carson! He has secret informations. And he won't disclose the source.
4
I'm not sure it takes a "mastermind" to arrange for armed suiciders to go out and begin shooting defenseless people. Strategic planning not so much. Maybe it's time for reporters, especially the TV blowhards on CNN, to to tamp it down.
12
ISIS has long caravans of trucks that are loaded with oil that it is selling to finance their operations.
If Obama truly believes climate change is our biggest national security threat why isn't he destroying these convoys?
If Obama truly believes climate change is our biggest national security threat why isn't he destroying these convoys?
3
They are. Catch up on the latest news.
3
Um, that's a silly comment. Attacking the oil trucks results in the burning of the oil and the release of all the carbon it contains. Besides, just today (Monday) U.S. A-10 attack planes and AC-130 gunships destroyed 116 ISIS oil trucks in Syria.
1
Why use the word "mastermind," which sounds so impressive?
3
Marauding pirates sowing chaos, not governing areas they've taken but pillaging and terrorizing the locals.
These people are against civilization everywhere, including the ME. But of course the West is particularly decadent.
The youngsters are athrill with being part of a grand cause, saving the world, willing to die for it. We have no answer to that---what- go shopping? material comforts if you can get a job?
Seems these pirates locked onto a moment of great upheaval in the great Sunni revolt and capitalized with online skill to bring in hordes of disenfranchised youth around the world. From nearly every county! And they're still coming, idealistic rebels with a cause. Globalization can lead to despair but we didn't forsee this. But criminal/pirates saw their opening.Thank you Obama for not sending in troops. Let Arab countries and EU do it while we bomb and provide intel.Keep us away. Least we can do after lighting the match in Iraq.
These people are against civilization everywhere, including the ME. But of course the West is particularly decadent.
The youngsters are athrill with being part of a grand cause, saving the world, willing to die for it. We have no answer to that---what- go shopping? material comforts if you can get a job?
Seems these pirates locked onto a moment of great upheaval in the great Sunni revolt and capitalized with online skill to bring in hordes of disenfranchised youth around the world. From nearly every county! And they're still coming, idealistic rebels with a cause. Globalization can lead to despair but we didn't forsee this. But criminal/pirates saw their opening.Thank you Obama for not sending in troops. Let Arab countries and EU do it while we bomb and provide intel.Keep us away. Least we can do after lighting the match in Iraq.
7
Thank you Mr. President for putting the opposition party in their place with their call to separate refugees by religion or to turn back everyone. Sending back the non-Christians would mean certain death for them since they would have tried to escape. How on earth would anyone detect this anyway? I think someone who is willing to kill themselves would also claim to be Christian just to get access to people.
Fighting terrorism is more than just attacking some area with big weaponry. If there were simple solutions, this would have been figured out long ago. Simplistic solutions is what got us into the quagmire that is Iraq.
Fighting terrorism is more than just attacking some area with big weaponry. If there were simple solutions, this would have been figured out long ago. Simplistic solutions is what got us into the quagmire that is Iraq.
10
What got France in the position is allowing many Muslims over the years in their country. Obviously if you never allowed Muslims in your country this would of not happened. These governments have a responsibility to their citizens over Muslims from other countries. Germany is kicking citzens out of their homes for muslim refugees. Almost all the refugees coming are muslim men not even children or woman.
Also separating Muslims from non-muslims is smart and reasonable. For example the Christians and certain minorities like Yazida in the middle east are not Arabic. They have a different culture and language. therefore its much easier to tell than you think. If you cant tell than just dont accept anymore refugees from islamic lands.
Also separating Muslims from non-muslims is smart and reasonable. For example the Christians and certain minorities like Yazida in the middle east are not Arabic. They have a different culture and language. therefore its much easier to tell than you think. If you cant tell than just dont accept anymore refugees from islamic lands.
6
The horrendous attacks in Paris, the Mumbai massacre before that and the 9/11 attacks in US...the list goes on. In all fairness, there have been terrorist attacks perpetrated by non muslim individual/groups. But the great majority of most barbaric terrorist attacks are commited by hardcore islamic extremists. The lawful and peaceful practitioners of islam, most definitely the majority have failed to counter this increasingly alarming problem arising from their midst - correct me if I am wrong. The peace and prosperity of western nations did not materialize overnight. It was achieved by the blood and sweat of countless people working for decades and centuries for a just cause making great sacrifices and practicing a high level of tolerance. The west has a moral, ethical and humanistic obligation to provide assistance to refugees as well as to other brutalized and threatened communities. But it can not be expected or demanded at the expense of rendering their own homes and land utterly vulnerable to future attack as the recent Paris attacks proved. The idea of establishing a safe zone within or in the vicinity of the region of oppression or violence, forcefully created and paid for by western nations, where the threatened communities can find shelter and support for a resonable amount of time must be considered. The affected people themselves have to find a workable solution ultimately.
14
There already are safe zones (look it up). But many of the people have left for a "better life and prosperity" in Europe. But creating more would an excellent move to make. This well meaning, but ignorant idea of "saving refugee's" simply plays into the hands of the low profile "travel agents" those people use and sometimes get into trouble en route.
1
Allowing 65,000 refugees into the U.S. is insanity. Even if you can vet them now, we can't monitor them enough to keep them from becoming radicalized (Tsarnev Brothers and Boston bombing anyone?).
I hate this phrase - takes a village - but its gonna take one.
1. Toyota - figure out how to shut down your pipeline of Toyota Hiluxes that are being used by ISIS to kill people and glorify themselves. If they can't do it boycott Toyota.
2. Twitter - shut down your ISIS channels celebrating mass murder. If they won't do it, boycott Twitter.
3. Facebook - put your coders and programmers onto a more important project (assisting Government in breaking down ISIS's brilliant use of social media) instead of promoting yourselves and your safety app thing. See above boycott.
4. Apple - provide the encryption keys to our government so that they can have a chance to prevent a catastrophe instead of providing ISIS with the means to strategize one. See above boycott.
5. Coalition to take out oil fields and sources of income
6. Muslim clerics and Islam leaders shamed into denouncing this. Either your with us or against us. No government money for mosques, etc.
7. No refugees from this part of the world until we have broken ISIS's back.
I could go on, but it really is going to take a village here, not just France bombing Raqqa - although I'm behind them a thousand percent. And let's not wait for our President to start to figure this stuff. It's just not happening.
I hate this phrase - takes a village - but its gonna take one.
1. Toyota - figure out how to shut down your pipeline of Toyota Hiluxes that are being used by ISIS to kill people and glorify themselves. If they can't do it boycott Toyota.
2. Twitter - shut down your ISIS channels celebrating mass murder. If they won't do it, boycott Twitter.
3. Facebook - put your coders and programmers onto a more important project (assisting Government in breaking down ISIS's brilliant use of social media) instead of promoting yourselves and your safety app thing. See above boycott.
4. Apple - provide the encryption keys to our government so that they can have a chance to prevent a catastrophe instead of providing ISIS with the means to strategize one. See above boycott.
5. Coalition to take out oil fields and sources of income
6. Muslim clerics and Islam leaders shamed into denouncing this. Either your with us or against us. No government money for mosques, etc.
7. No refugees from this part of the world until we have broken ISIS's back.
I could go on, but it really is going to take a village here, not just France bombing Raqqa - although I'm behind them a thousand percent. And let's not wait for our President to start to figure this stuff. It's just not happening.
181
Actually our POTUS is counseling us to not listen to people like you. If it were up to Obama, we'd already be resettling Syrians. It is the republicans - anti-immigrant to the core - that is preventing this.
What this country could use is a dual dose of courage and thoughtfulness. Both are in short supply. We should be stepping up to help resettle Syrians, Iraqis, etc. After all, WE (the U.S., specifically the actions of the Bush Administration) are responsible for creating the power vacuum in the region. We broke it, we should help fix it. And helping fix it involves taking in those displaced by tragic and short-sighted actions of the previous administration.
What this country could use is a dual dose of courage and thoughtfulness. Both are in short supply. We should be stepping up to help resettle Syrians, Iraqis, etc. After all, WE (the U.S., specifically the actions of the Bush Administration) are responsible for creating the power vacuum in the region. We broke it, we should help fix it. And helping fix it involves taking in those displaced by tragic and short-sighted actions of the previous administration.
Excellent ideas. May I add
8. Reduce oil consumption to drive down price further, thus reducing ISIL's revenue from oil.
8. Reduce oil consumption to drive down price further, thus reducing ISIL's revenue from oil.
1
Perhaps we could "trade" 65,000 of those European refugees for the same number of "illegals" hiding here from South of the border. We have plenty of them to bargain with, it seems to me. Of course, OUR "illegals" are not so skillful at terrorism, but they will soon learn.
1
I guess when Jeb's brother ordered that huge banner "Mission Accomplished" put up behind him on the aircraft carrier (5/1/2003) it was premature.
106
Not really. In retrospect the mission which as accomplished was the establishment of ISIS.
Just once I'd like to hear these people who keep invoking Bush and Iraq and Cheney explain how that will help. I suppose the "idea" if there is one is not to repeat what they did. Of course any fool can say what not to do, but how about a suggestion?
So I, unlike these people who think it's the essence of wisdom to keep putting Bush down, will make a proposal: we make it very painful for ISIS to keep functioning. We did it after Pearl Harbor and we could do it again once we get a president Jan 20, 2017.
So I, unlike these people who think it's the essence of wisdom to keep putting Bush down, will make a proposal: we make it very painful for ISIS to keep functioning. We did it after Pearl Harbor and we could do it again once we get a president Jan 20, 2017.
No, in fact Bush was right! He accomplished exactly what was need to perpetually keep us at War.
I'm glad President Obama is so sure we can properly screen the Syrian immigrants he wants to bring here. ISIS, the JV team, contained as of Friday, must be laughing at his stupidity.
53
Nah.. Accept women and children and then hold back men under 50 until fully vetted... Limit financial support to essentials but make sure kids get good education. We must do our part for those youngsters and families who will be grateful for our generosity.
Here is the question that nobody is asking... while "processing" the Syrian immigrants : where are they staying? Will they be in the US getting processed? Once their feet hit our soil...deal done... do you think a sleeper cell is going to sit and wait for "approval" which can take months to year.. will the media ask the politicians this question?
1
I would hope as each raid is conducted and as we gleam into the lives of these thugs we show the world for what they are - thugs, who indulge in drugs, alcohol and sexual slavery and not some puritanical angels that they claim themselves to be. This is the narrative with evidence that we need to portray and not the slick videos that they(ISIS) show on their websites so that we can at least prevent some misguided youth not to follow this path. But the evidence should be shown to every one and not held back for security reasons.
346
Yes. I've posted the same commentary a few times. Here in the U.S., our conservatives constantly portray Obama as soft on terrorism, despite his record of a murderous covert war against them worldwide. As you say, the ISIS recruiting goes on unabated. If video evidence of just how many of them have been killed were widely available, they and others would see this war for what it is. They'd lose faster, with fewer casualties on all sides, if the world could see just what it's like to be a young ISIS thug, duped into joining their barbarism.
But what if they are not addicted to drugs, alcohol etc. But seem to live a "pure" life and carried out this attack because it says so in their religion that it is the duty of every muslim to fight the infidels? Do we still release all the evidence?
This reductive black & white analysis of the displaced brutal ex Iraqi Ba'athist intelligence officers from Saddam Hussein's shadow government who formed their own terror group in Syria with the help of outside funding are seeking revenge. They're not puritanical angels although neither are the individuals who supplied Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons. The Afghanistan rebels who join the Taliban were originally trained & financed by the US government to fight against the Soviet Union. The various individuals who join ISIS are not persuaded by showy entertainment videos, but rather because they feel betrayed by individuals who don't understand their history nor the bombings, carnage & violence wreaked against them in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen & the proxy battles between Iran & Saudi Arabia, Qatar & UAE that has left their countries, cities, villages & neighborhoods into war zones. A slick advertising campaign. After Maliki took office in Iraq & persecuted Sunnis, the resentment kept building with many disaffected war torn youth joining various rebel groups vowing to seek revenge against their persecutors. Until all countries withdraw from intensifying the violence through a multi-lateral peace agreement between Sunni Shiites Kurds and Christians in their homeland, there will continue to be bloodshed for decades to come, social media or just pigeon carriers.
The definition of a 'mastermind' is a person of exceptional intellect - clearly an absurdity in this case.
The word 'execution', although not used in this story, has also been used widely by mainstream media (e.g. Peter Mansbridge, CBC National) to describe the heinous slaughter of innocent people. The word execution is broadly interpreted to mean a lawful (if repugnant) killing by a state - as opposed to a mass murder committed by a gang of cut-throats.
Would it be too much to ask the Times and other media to refrain from using terms that unwittingly elevate the perpetrators of these crimes and that aid a propaganda machine that recruits new 'masterminds' for the ongoing 'execution' of non-believers.
The word 'execution', although not used in this story, has also been used widely by mainstream media (e.g. Peter Mansbridge, CBC National) to describe the heinous slaughter of innocent people. The word execution is broadly interpreted to mean a lawful (if repugnant) killing by a state - as opposed to a mass murder committed by a gang of cut-throats.
Would it be too much to ask the Times and other media to refrain from using terms that unwittingly elevate the perpetrators of these crimes and that aid a propaganda machine that recruits new 'masterminds' for the ongoing 'execution' of non-believers.
167
Yes, not 'execution' but 'murder' and not 'mastermind' but 'mass murderer'
2
Millions of Arabs have not been successfully integrated in France and other European nations.
And many more are now being invited in. They may not themselves be terrorists, but what can we predict about their offspring? Several of the attackers were born in Europe to parents who came to Europe with good intentions, seeking a better life for their family.
So what will Europe do differently with the new generation of immigrants to help them integrate better? If there is not a clear answer to this question then the current wave of immigration is clearly a bad idea.
And many more are now being invited in. They may not themselves be terrorists, but what can we predict about their offspring? Several of the attackers were born in Europe to parents who came to Europe with good intentions, seeking a better life for their family.
So what will Europe do differently with the new generation of immigrants to help them integrate better? If there is not a clear answer to this question then the current wave of immigration is clearly a bad idea.
164
Look at the example of France. Among the elites both inside and beyond France, it is fashionable to dismiss anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim sentiment as parochial and backward. But, the non-elites see things differently. France’s Muslim population has reached an estimated 6.5 million – roughly 10 per cent of the population – and many of them have assimilated poorly. Despite the billions of euros poured into immigrant-dominated “sensitive urban zones” since the riots of 2005, nothing has improved. Youth unemployment in these areas is upward of 40 per cent. 60 per cent of France’s prison inmates are of “Muslim religion” and the prisons have become breeding grounds for radicalization. Remember First Charlie Hebdo, now Paris. Don't forget the other five terrorist incidents (in planning) that were thankfully stopped by Police.
44
Very thoughtful comment.
3
Why have the Vietnamese, many Portuguese, Eastern Europeans, Africans and Tunisians benn able to, sans problem? It is simply false that France does not open up its arms, social system and schools to those who want to live in or become French. Those who do not integrate, have only themselves to blame.
4
How do we get the Middle East leadership to step up? Clearly we Western countries understand nothing about the Middle East, confirmed by our actions, past and present. The US invaded Iraq on a pretext and now US and EU are paying the deadly price for that.
We need less rhetoric and more solutions. And the solutions I fear can only come from the ME leadership. So what can Americans do to force ME leaders to step up? Perhaps slow the money for oil? Can we not sacrifice a little to save ourselves? Perhaps not drive as often? Turn the heat down at home and put on a sweater or two? Carpool? Take the train instead of driving?
We need less rhetoric and more solutions. And the solutions I fear can only come from the ME leadership. So what can Americans do to force ME leaders to step up? Perhaps slow the money for oil? Can we not sacrifice a little to save ourselves? Perhaps not drive as often? Turn the heat down at home and put on a sweater or two? Carpool? Take the train instead of driving?
326
This is a great comment. Our solutions are all knee jerk, backyard boy reactions. All we do with these solutions is create more hatred and violence directed back on ourselves. It is long past time to think through some different solutions. I like the idea of ME leadership engaging except for the fact that they can't seem to manage their own states and that is part of the problem.
8
Oh, yes. Carpooling will make the ISIS leaders shiver in their boots.
1
"...get the Middle East leadership to step up."
Good luck with that. The only ME leaders, as you call them, that matter in this are the Saudi's. They were/are behind AQ and you can bet that they won't lift a finger to stop ISIS. They share the same goal: Death to all of the non-believers.
Good luck with that. The only ME leaders, as you call them, that matter in this are the Saudi's. They were/are behind AQ and you can bet that they won't lift a finger to stop ISIS. They share the same goal: Death to all of the non-believers.
5
Perhaps President François Hollande can let Obama know. Obama seems clueless we are also at war with Radical Islam.
30
How would you prosecute that war? Are you a member of the armed services volunteering to be among the first boots on the ground? Are you prepared to pay more taxes, or, more radically, raise the taxes on the wealthiest members of society, to improve our military operations? Are you occupied in improving domestic economic and social conditions to help avert the growth of a homegrown radical element?
Is France putting boots on the ground. France is doing exactly what the US is doing. I doubt very much that President Obama is clueless.
Actually France has, for over a year, made barely any efforts in the war against ISIS whereas we have been bombing them daily. Were you not aware of these facts which completely and unequivocally rebut your assertions.
I see that our President continues to refuse to perform his role as commander in chief. He has abdicated and refused to provide leadership in the struggle against these radicals. The day of the attack in Paris, he professed his belief that ISIS was "contained." Previously, he called them the "JV." in every step he has taken in international affairs, he has proven himself inept, feckless, and wrong-headed. I only hope that other world leaders can help lead him to understand the necessity for forcefully eliminating the terrorist state/safe haven now, before yet more innocents are killed or injured, either in Western countries, including our own, or in the Middle East.
22
ISIS is being regularly bombed, and it is only making recruitment go up. As for the rest of your unsubstantiated post, a president with diplomatic skills and caution is hardly a liability when compared with the cowboy Bush era.
17
Nonsense. Thank God we have a President who isn't a swaggering nincompoop.
3
The U.S. has not had a terroist attack under Obama's tenure. That can't be said for the prior administration whose wars in response were fraudulent and feckless and led to the building stones of ISS.
Throughout history twisted idealogies (such as Nazism and Communism in the Eastern Bloc for instance) have collapsed from within once support vanished. I expect IS to go the same way. Show people a better life and they will fight to keep it.
5
So you are saying Nazism "does from within"?
It died because of the sacrifice of this nation and other free countries and the young men and women who fought and gave their lives for us. Please read your history books.
It died because of the sacrifice of this nation and other free countries and the young men and women who fought and gave their lives for us. Please read your history books.
1
It is one matter to declare that, "France is at war."
And quite another to actually help France to actually engage ISIS, on a better footing than decades ago against the Nazis.
The current statutes within legal system throughout the E.U. have been the greatest help to terrorism. Calling the present immigration and deportation laws a 'suicide pact', would be an understatement.
The intelligence community was over saturated with Islamic problems long before Bashar al Assad unleashed hell on his own people.
Until the French government will actually send back home the thousands of unemployed, angry, bitter men of military age, settled throughout the ghettoes of Europe, and turn back the death boats of the human traffickers, France will soon be tragically occupied by another hostile military culture.
And quite another to actually help France to actually engage ISIS, on a better footing than decades ago against the Nazis.
The current statutes within legal system throughout the E.U. have been the greatest help to terrorism. Calling the present immigration and deportation laws a 'suicide pact', would be an understatement.
The intelligence community was over saturated with Islamic problems long before Bashar al Assad unleashed hell on his own people.
Until the French government will actually send back home the thousands of unemployed, angry, bitter men of military age, settled throughout the ghettoes of Europe, and turn back the death boats of the human traffickers, France will soon be tragically occupied by another hostile military culture.
6
Not seeing anyone talk about this in detail. Why did Germany decide to "take in" over 100,000 Syrian refugees? Doesn't matter whether that's over 1 year or 4 years. Why would a country that already has enormous internal problems about "immigrants" want to take in more? Cheap labor? Thousands of young men who could serve in the German military, if called upon to do so, because they would have no choice, other than being deported? Germany, as far as I know, is not participating in bombing Iraq or Syria.
Germany seems to be playing the long game, especially since it is the economic leader in the EU; don't get involved in any big way militarily, and offer safe haven to almost anyone who wants to come there, and then.....eventually.....have hundreds of thousands of people who are entirely dependent upon government support (albeit low wage jobs) available to defend Germany in any situation.
Merkel is not an angel of immigration. There is a long term political/military plan here.
Germany seems to be playing the long game, especially since it is the economic leader in the EU; don't get involved in any big way militarily, and offer safe haven to almost anyone who wants to come there, and then.....eventually.....have hundreds of thousands of people who are entirely dependent upon government support (albeit low wage jobs) available to defend Germany in any situation.
Merkel is not an angel of immigration. There is a long term political/military plan here.
4
The German game(?) is called mercy and moral fiber which seems sorely lacking in many comments here.
1
The long term reasoning is explicitly that Germans are not reproducing and thus their welfare state, being an unsustainable scheme like ours, will collapse unless they find replacements. It is not a military plan to take over Europe. That is sheer paranoia. The problem with Merkel's plan to replace missing Germans with Syrians, Afghanis, and Libyans is that not all cultures can be integrated into the host culture. In fact, they do not want to be integrated; they want to establish their culture on German soil. So her long game will end in an Islamic Germany. She is a fool, not an evil genius.
1
If it was only 100,000 it would be nice. She has stated and repeated several times that "there is no upper limit"!
1
sfpk: "I, for one, and willing to relinquish more of my privacy in exchange for more personal and public safety."
I, for one, am not, especially because we've tried going down that route over the last decade, and it hasn't worked. Better, focused intelligence is what we need, not wholesale spying on everyone from Joe the Plumber to Angela Merkel. We need to focus our attention on the actual enemies, not the imagined ones like ordinary Americans, allies, and even Saddam Hussein. The lies, the overly broad wiretapping, and the wars in the wrong places have all helped get us where where are.
What we need to do now is to assess our mistakes honestly so as to avoid making them again and again, so as to find a way out of this mess. Bomb a city, and you create a recruiting drive. Target the leaders and you do everyone a favor.
I, for one, am not, especially because we've tried going down that route over the last decade, and it hasn't worked. Better, focused intelligence is what we need, not wholesale spying on everyone from Joe the Plumber to Angela Merkel. We need to focus our attention on the actual enemies, not the imagined ones like ordinary Americans, allies, and even Saddam Hussein. The lies, the overly broad wiretapping, and the wars in the wrong places have all helped get us where where are.
What we need to do now is to assess our mistakes honestly so as to avoid making them again and again, so as to find a way out of this mess. Bomb a city, and you create a recruiting drive. Target the leaders and you do everyone a favor.
57
So far it has been shown that 1 terrorist involved in these attacks came through the refugee channels in Greece vs. 3 or more home grown French nationals. Yet everyone wants to close down the borders so none can come in. Look within your own borders.
Pushing away "at risk" Muslims is only going to push them into radical Islam. We need to be more inclusive. ISIS is betting that we'll do awful things to more Muslims to give them a reason to hate us.
Pushing away "at risk" Muslims is only going to push them into radical Islam. We need to be more inclusive. ISIS is betting that we'll do awful things to more Muslims to give them a reason to hate us.
27
Focusing on Francois Hollande's statement that France is "at war", as several commentators have and assuming that he is calling for an invasion similar to our disastrous forays into Iraq and Afghanistan, may be taking his statement too literally.
What France appears to be doing is rather asking for permission to extend a state of emergency for 3 months, enabling the government to revoke the French citizenship of those involved in terrorism so they cannot return to France, carrying out a nationwide hunt for suspected terrorists, and bombing Raqqa, the ISIS stronghold in Syria.
What France appears to be doing is rather asking for permission to extend a state of emergency for 3 months, enabling the government to revoke the French citizenship of those involved in terrorism so they cannot return to France, carrying out a nationwide hunt for suspected terrorists, and bombing Raqqa, the ISIS stronghold in Syria.
300
The problem is that determining who is "involved in terrorism" is a very slippery slope, especially if the rule of law is suspended and it's done behind closed doors with no checks and balances. That's how more than a few innocent people ended up in Guantanamo, for example. After all, its very easy to accuse someone or being a terrorist...but its a lot harder to undue the damage to their lives if you're wrong.
Yes, terrorism is horrible....but taking away everyone's civil rights and turning countries into virtual police states is even worse.
Yes, terrorism is horrible....but taking away everyone's civil rights and turning countries into virtual police states is even worse.
If they were really at war, we would all be at war, ..all.. referring to NATO. So just bluster. That too is pathetic.
I hope you're right.
President Hollande desperately tries to cover his and French authorities own incompetence. They failed to detect such an elaborate planned massacre by people, some of whom, seemed to be familiar radicals and who were connected to previous terror activities.
Even though Paris was targeted in the recent past - Charlie H magazine ,a Jewish supermarket and the attempt on a French train foiled by Americans - authorities exhibited no ability to detect, arrest or detain anyone in advance, In spite of passing a sweeping "anti-terror" laws that infringed on civil liberties in the name of security.
French president should be reminded that France declared war on IS months ago and has been involved in bombing in Syria and Iraq. It was also involved for years in Afghanistan.
Even before "declaring war" - A week ago -France sent an aircraft carrier to the Middle East. Was that not a sign of already war in progress? Is 'aircraft carrier' in French also means 'peace'?
French leaders seem to think that more bombing is the answer based on their "success" of the past decade. The presidents' war deceleration is, as CBC noted this morning, a: "a hollow promise" mostly to address his own political, military, economic failure.
Even though Paris was targeted in the recent past - Charlie H magazine ,a Jewish supermarket and the attempt on a French train foiled by Americans - authorities exhibited no ability to detect, arrest or detain anyone in advance, In spite of passing a sweeping "anti-terror" laws that infringed on civil liberties in the name of security.
French president should be reminded that France declared war on IS months ago and has been involved in bombing in Syria and Iraq. It was also involved for years in Afghanistan.
Even before "declaring war" - A week ago -France sent an aircraft carrier to the Middle East. Was that not a sign of already war in progress? Is 'aircraft carrier' in French also means 'peace'?
French leaders seem to think that more bombing is the answer based on their "success" of the past decade. The presidents' war deceleration is, as CBC noted this morning, a: "a hollow promise" mostly to address his own political, military, economic failure.
4
Armchair quarterbacking is anything but helpful, particularly from your armchair in New York.
3
How was the plan "elaborate"? Going out and shooting defenseless people until you're killed yourself isn't very complex.
1
So many write: “Send in the troops! Send in our professional soldiers - men and women." Send THEM - but not our precious sons and daughters who are doing oh so well in private school and college, in law and business school, in their new job with Yoyodyne, et al.
The comfortable shrug and reply, “Well, they’re volunteers!” Do they ever wonder why they volunteer? When I look at the demographics of our military, the widening embrace of poverty and poor education among our citizens - results of political policy - I have to sigh.
Chad and Barbi are off to Stanford with visions of start-ups swirling in their young minds - we’re just SO thrilled - while Ernesto and LaShauna are taking payday loans to help pay for rent and daycare while they train for the next big one.
Victory in this new era of stateless terror will require far better, bolder, morally braver thinking and leadership than we’ve seen from our politicians and military brass since 9/11. We must of course have military muscle in reserve whenever it’s needed, but this fight will be won by wisdom, cunning, patience and iron will - not by ending thousands of our soldiers here and there.
The comfortable shrug and reply, “Well, they’re volunteers!” Do they ever wonder why they volunteer? When I look at the demographics of our military, the widening embrace of poverty and poor education among our citizens - results of political policy - I have to sigh.
Chad and Barbi are off to Stanford with visions of start-ups swirling in their young minds - we’re just SO thrilled - while Ernesto and LaShauna are taking payday loans to help pay for rent and daycare while they train for the next big one.
Victory in this new era of stateless terror will require far better, bolder, morally braver thinking and leadership than we’ve seen from our politicians and military brass since 9/11. We must of course have military muscle in reserve whenever it’s needed, but this fight will be won by wisdom, cunning, patience and iron will - not by ending thousands of our soldiers here and there.
655
OK, the "wisdom, cunning, patience and iron will" to do what then? Change your facebook profile pic to a French flag filter and hope it doesn't happen again?
1
I don't suppose you have considered that many young people join the Military because they want to serve their country?
My husband is a retired E-8, Master Sergeant, who served for 24 years.
We had to scrimp to get by and moved every four years or so but I am extremely proud of him and wouldn't have changed being an Army wife.
And no, he wasn't a baby killer.
Maybe when you have stood in a soldier's shoes you can talk about morals and courage.
My husband is a retired E-8, Master Sergeant, who served for 24 years.
We had to scrimp to get by and moved every four years or so but I am extremely proud of him and wouldn't have changed being an Army wife.
And no, he wasn't a baby killer.
Maybe when you have stood in a soldier's shoes you can talk about morals and courage.
9
Your ethnic stereotyping is quite surprising. You didn't need to make those comments to make your point. I find it a form of micro-aggression.
3
France may be at war, but America is not, nor should it be. This is the result of a failed immigration policy decades old. Smarter leaders would insist on strategic immigration that excludes those likely to engage in terrorism. Welcome these people at your own peril and don't expect us to waste lives or treasure as a consequence of it.
24
If the U.S. isn't at war, then why is it so heavily engaged in military actions in Afghanistan and Pakistan, with varying levels of coordination with the governments of those countries? Are the U.S. soldiers there playing make believe?
I dont trust the French, or the EU for that matter, to effectively fight Islamic extremism.
First, most Europeans don't have the stomach for a real fight. They have grown up under a shield of the American military for decades, barely contributing to their own security. Very very few Europeans have family in their armed forces, or even know anybody in them. Europeans have also been building expensive socialist systems that leave very little money for military spending, so they are militarily weak, inexperienced, and their populations have barely any kind of martial spirit or attitude. They have little fighting spirit, and you can see that in all the hugs and flowers and sad faces around Paris among the young, but virtually no rage, no one talking about killing their enemies, or even wanting to admit they have enemies.
Secondly, there is the problem of multiculturalism, which is deeply ingrained in European society, especially among the young. They believe in their bones that every culture should be treated the same, and that its especially wrong for a member of one culture to pass judgement on another culture. So Europeans are poorly equipped to actually challenge or criticize Islam, or radical Islam, demand it to reform, etc.
So you have a militarily weak society with virtually no martial spirit walking on eggshells as they confront a ruthless enemy both externally and internally. My prediction: not much will change for France, and this will happen again.
First, most Europeans don't have the stomach for a real fight. They have grown up under a shield of the American military for decades, barely contributing to their own security. Very very few Europeans have family in their armed forces, or even know anybody in them. Europeans have also been building expensive socialist systems that leave very little money for military spending, so they are militarily weak, inexperienced, and their populations have barely any kind of martial spirit or attitude. They have little fighting spirit, and you can see that in all the hugs and flowers and sad faces around Paris among the young, but virtually no rage, no one talking about killing their enemies, or even wanting to admit they have enemies.
Secondly, there is the problem of multiculturalism, which is deeply ingrained in European society, especially among the young. They believe in their bones that every culture should be treated the same, and that its especially wrong for a member of one culture to pass judgement on another culture. So Europeans are poorly equipped to actually challenge or criticize Islam, or radical Islam, demand it to reform, etc.
So you have a militarily weak society with virtually no martial spirit walking on eggshells as they confront a ruthless enemy both externally and internally. My prediction: not much will change for France, and this will happen again.
24
My prediction is that you couldn't be more wrong. The French will not stand idly by, pass out flowers and hug each other warmly in response while awaiting the next episode. I predict that they display remarkable sangfroid in exacting much more than an equal measure of revenge. ISIS has a price to pay and will not be happy when the French punch their ticket. Wait and see: people in this country will wish that our administration could act / was acting with such intent.
4
You're right with your analysis of the young europeans soul.
"They have little fighting spirit, and you can see that in all the hugs and flowers and sad faces around Paris among the young, but virtually no rage, no one talking about killing their enemies ..."
I found that pretty disturbing, actually, but hope that in the face of the terror they'll finally smarten up.
"They have little fighting spirit, and you can see that in all the hugs and flowers and sad faces around Paris among the young, but virtually no rage, no one talking about killing their enemies ..."
I found that pretty disturbing, actually, but hope that in the face of the terror they'll finally smarten up.
2
You are indulging in a fantasized version of Europe. Their militaries are equal players in many combat situations around the world, and they have effective anti-terrorist arms. Far more terrorist incidents are targeted there than in the U.S., which has been poorly prepared for terrorist incidents in the past. Multiculturalism and respect for others has nothing to do with terrorism, but xenophobia such as you are demonstrating has has everything to do with making things worse.
France is at war; but with whom? If one thinks that heavy bombing will do anything to change the security of France or the "civilized world" I would tend to differ. France and the civilized world is at wart with those countries that are profiting and big time. Ask why the Saudies and other Artab nations are not showing any involvement in combating ISIL?
7
Have you ever heard of the Kurds? They are doing all the heavy lifting in the ground war against ISIS. Ten Arab nations have joined in a coalition with the U.S. to fight ISIS. This is all in the news.
WE need to "Trace The Money Flow" to all the Imams, Mosques and Madrassas from Pakistan to All European Countries.
AND Clearly Expose The Wahhabi Global Terror Network.
IT is also clear that Turkey has been instrumental in allowing these Sociopaths enter Syria and Iraq and All Indications are that they are Doing Business with ISIS from buying Oil to providing Medical Treatment to these Fighters.
TODAY I saw a picture of Erdogan with the Saudi King at the G-20 and it made me feel Ill thinking these folks are celebrated as the Members of G-20 and NATO Members and Allies!???
WE need to be doing much better picking Friends as with Allies like the House of Saud and Turkey who needs enemies.
AND Clearly Expose The Wahhabi Global Terror Network.
IT is also clear that Turkey has been instrumental in allowing these Sociopaths enter Syria and Iraq and All Indications are that they are Doing Business with ISIS from buying Oil to providing Medical Treatment to these Fighters.
TODAY I saw a picture of Erdogan with the Saudi King at the G-20 and it made me feel Ill thinking these folks are celebrated as the Members of G-20 and NATO Members and Allies!???
WE need to be doing much better picking Friends as with Allies like the House of Saud and Turkey who needs enemies.
62
Absolutely, especially the role of Turkey as a supposed NATO ally is dubious, what kind of a friend is a country that purposely destabilizes other allied countries but inundating them with migrants?
1
The hotheads need to chill. Carpet bombing Syria might kill a few Jihadis, but it will also create many more. The only long term solution is to partition Eastern Syria and Western Iraq into new countries, one for the Sunnis and one for the Kurds. Multi-ethnic government has failed. Time for a new solution.
28
"Mr. Hollande reiterated his determination to annihilate the Islamic State." “France is at war,” he told a rare joint session of Parliament at the Château de Versailles."
Jeb Bush thinks this was "a plan to destroy Western civilization…"
Two 'terrorists' couldn't get into the stadium so blew themselves up outside of it.
The next set of 'terrorists' pulled off a drive-by shooting which any number of numbskulls could and do pull off in America.
The last set of 'terrorists' simply walked into a concert hall that doesn't check for guns to easily pick off victims
similar to what happened in the first grade class at Newton.
Jeb Bush thinks this was "a plan to destroy Western civilization…"
Two 'terrorists' couldn't get into the stadium so blew themselves up outside of it.
The next set of 'terrorists' pulled off a drive-by shooting which any number of numbskulls could and do pull off in America.
The last set of 'terrorists' simply walked into a concert hall that doesn't check for guns to easily pick off victims
similar to what happened in the first grade class at Newton.
18
I was thinking the same thing. A drive by isn't a very sophisticated attack. We've been dealing with these in the US since the 1920s when the gangsters would take each other on from moving vehicles with Tommy guns. Paris was just another soft target that these cowards chose because they knew their victims would be defenseless.
1
Me, I'm thinking that Anonymous and their cyber tactics will do more than some bombs and missiles (although they don't hurt the cause). ISIS has a fully-functioning Internet presence? Watch.
16
I have much more faith in Anonymous than all our intelligence agencies combined. Now that Anonymous is involved, expect to see some downtime for ISIS.
1
Until there is a political resolve to end the conflict, the cycle of violence will continue to take the innocent lives. The mess in the Middle East is due to confusion of western diplomacy. We see the mess in Libya created by Western NATO power.
8
Classic middle eastern response. Never take any responsibility. It is always the fault of the West, even when muslims are killing each other.
49
In the same manner as the West do not take responsibility for the mess in the Middle East...Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Syria are the living examples of carnage in modern history by western power with no political direction. Possibly the chaos and confusion suit the strategy of the west.
1
Geez, Fredrik, aren't you ignoring the big mess we helped our NATO allies make in Libya? This guy has a point. It's been the west making countries out of nothing in the Middle East. Then the West deciding to remake them over and over again. I think we're the ones who never take any responsibility for any of our past actions. It's us, Fredrik. You and me in the West.
1
Accepting such as large amount of immigrants into Europe is a major mistake. These immigrants need to be rounded up and carefully screened before being accepted into the host country. How many of these immigrants have entered Europe with the intent to cause mayhem, slipping into Europe with other refuges? It appears that some of the terrorists are children of immigrants from the Middle East or Northern Africa. Families of the people who commit heinous crimes such as the Paris attack need to be held accountable also. They should be deported as they are the people most responsible for molding their family members character. As there seems to be a problem with many immigrants from these areas assimilating into European society steps should be taken to either attempt to integrate them into their host country or deport them. Borders should be strictly regulated. Unfortunately unless more control is exercised in the acceptance of people from these unstable regions of the world, there will be many more acts of terrorism in the near future.
18
Rounded up? Yikes.
Round up and deport terrorists' families? That is no less barbaric than the terrorists themselves.
For the record: collective punishment is a considered a war crime.
For the record: collective punishment is a considered a war crime.
There he is in front of a U.S. made Humvee, a gift of stupidity, from our leaders who trust others to do our fighting for us. A colossal waste of money and a blatant example of incompetence. See, history repeated, "Vietnamization."
This little, (soon to be dead), "jihadist," looks to me more like a sociopathic, angry, totally unemployable malcontent. [Standing in front of my Humvee.] He needed a job, a wife, and purpose in life, other then creating mayhem, misery, and cold blooded murder.
And, what kind of religion sanctions this type of behavior, even in it's most obtuse interpretations? I hear so many, so called, "peace loving," Muslims, appalled by these recent actions, but it's not nearly enough. There is, like it or not, an association, with being Muslim.
This little, (soon to be dead), "jihadist," looks to me more like a sociopathic, angry, totally unemployable malcontent. [Standing in front of my Humvee.] He needed a job, a wife, and purpose in life, other then creating mayhem, misery, and cold blooded murder.
And, what kind of religion sanctions this type of behavior, even in it's most obtuse interpretations? I hear so many, so called, "peace loving," Muslims, appalled by these recent actions, but it's not nearly enough. There is, like it or not, an association, with being Muslim.
32
@Peter Rant,
Sadly he seems no different then the pictures of gang members posted on social media all over the USA. Luckily for us the gang members in the US usually keep their violence contained within their "turf!"
Sadly he seems no different then the pictures of gang members posted on social media all over the USA. Luckily for us the gang members in the US usually keep their violence contained within their "turf!"
5
The Middle East kept their gang members contained more, too, until the Bush family started the Great Oil Wars.
Why don't you tell that to the thousands of Muslims who work at jobs and lead productive lives in the U.S.?
The article is about the Belgian who masterminded the Paris attacks, but the article does not mention his status. Is he at large? Did he take part in the attacks?
6
Look at that fool. WE - the world - are supposed to be terrorized by him and his mentally deranged brethren? I don't think so. One way to stop them is to take out their social media platforms and I was happy to hear that on Saturday Anonymous declared cyber war on them. Go Anonymous and other tech wizards who can get them off social media.
http://news.yahoo.com/anonymous-just-declared-war-isis-134403885.html
http://news.yahoo.com/anonymous-just-declared-war-isis-134403885.html
302
Great; I wish Anonymous all success. Robin Hood for the modern era.
4
This sounds great - until Anonymous decides they wish to declare cyber war on the U.S. because they don't like our policies. Isn't Anonymous a stateless terrorist group of another type?
Great idea! Shut up and carry a big cyber-stick. Do more real damage than a 1000 air raids.
1
Seriously, why are we letting 10,000 Syrian "refugees" into our country after watching the horrific Paris slaughter? Have Obama and his supporters lost their collective minds? I mean, it is outrageous. The number one job of the President of the U.S. is to protect your citizens and he is simply not doing that.
193
You finally realize that? NOW? in his seventh year of office?
No, he's not protecting us and he is not doing his job. The full repercussions of the harm done by Obama won't be known until AFTER he is out of office (*he has arranged it that way, just like delaying Obamacare rules until after he is gone!).
So why are we letting 10,000 Syrians here? because of lefty liberalism. That is the answer. Lefty liberals want no borders and unlimited immigration and amnesty and The Dream Act.
No, he's not protecting us and he is not doing his job. The full repercussions of the harm done by Obama won't be known until AFTER he is out of office (*he has arranged it that way, just like delaying Obamacare rules until after he is gone!).
So why are we letting 10,000 Syrians here? because of lefty liberalism. That is the answer. Lefty liberals want no borders and unlimited immigration and amnesty and The Dream Act.
10
Because moral people treat others as they would want to be treated. Most of these people are fleeing the same types of radicals that attacked Paris. They are victims. With careful screening, the average refugee will probably be less likely to commit a serious crime than the average American.
The United States turned away Jews fleeing from the Nazis. Do we really want to repeat this mistake because the possibility that a tiny handful of them might be violent radicals?
The United States turned away Jews fleeing from the Nazis. Do we really want to repeat this mistake because the possibility that a tiny handful of them might be violent radicals?
27
Clearly, the JV team is in the White House.
12
"Abdelhamid Abaaoud, a 27-year-old Belgian man who has fought with the Islamic State in Syria,"
posing complete with the flag of al-Qaeda or ISIL.
The point in the wake of the tragedy is that for years governments of Europe following the United States in supporting the violent destruction of the Syrian government turned away from residents in Belgium or France or the United Kingdom going to Syria to support insurgents.
The positions we took on destroying the government of Syria, Libya and Iraq have been tragically self-defeating and tragic for the respective countries.
posing complete with the flag of al-Qaeda or ISIL.
The point in the wake of the tragedy is that for years governments of Europe following the United States in supporting the violent destruction of the Syrian government turned away from residents in Belgium or France or the United Kingdom going to Syria to support insurgents.
The positions we took on destroying the government of Syria, Libya and Iraq have been tragically self-defeating and tragic for the respective countries.
6
"France is at war," Hollande says.
NATO Article 5 states that an attack on one Ally shall be considered an attack on all Allies. NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history following the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States. All NATO allies vigorously supported American military action after 9/11.
How now will the U.S. support its traditional French ally? Does the U.S. still believe in collective security, or is NATO irrelevant?
NATO Article 5 states that an attack on one Ally shall be considered an attack on all Allies. NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history following the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States. All NATO allies vigorously supported American military action after 9/11.
How now will the U.S. support its traditional French ally? Does the U.S. still believe in collective security, or is NATO irrelevant?
8
Mixed feelings about this "war."
Okay, France has bombed some possible ISIS locations in Syria. These attacks might or might not have killed ISIS members (killers, leaders, etc.). How many times over the past 15 years have we read reports of some important leader in al Qaeda (or another terrorist group) being killed, only to find that another was ready to take his place. Is France - with or without the US and other nations affected by ISIS - going to go after ISIS members one by one, starting with this Abdelhamid Abaaoud?
What does this French war look like in the long run? If it resembles the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, let me express my sympathy for their loss of lives and money at the outset. And what might peace look like? Can anyone even envision this? After all, every attack in Syria or elsewhere is more than likely to generate more prospective fighters throughout the region and well beyond.
Okay, France has bombed some possible ISIS locations in Syria. These attacks might or might not have killed ISIS members (killers, leaders, etc.). How many times over the past 15 years have we read reports of some important leader in al Qaeda (or another terrorist group) being killed, only to find that another was ready to take his place. Is France - with or without the US and other nations affected by ISIS - going to go after ISIS members one by one, starting with this Abdelhamid Abaaoud?
What does this French war look like in the long run? If it resembles the US in Afghanistan and Iraq, let me express my sympathy for their loss of lives and money at the outset. And what might peace look like? Can anyone even envision this? After all, every attack in Syria or elsewhere is more than likely to generate more prospective fighters throughout the region and well beyond.
4
Turkey warned several times about this guy. We were warned repeatedly about the 9/11 attacks. Not to get all conspiracy theory on you all, but at what point do we start to think our own leaders are out to get us? Obama's the only one in a long time to lead from his brain not from his behind like the rest of these jokers, and all he gets is grief for it. Anybody who loses sleep worried what Joe Scarborough thinks is not worthy of our respect. And that's what it comes down to. These are thorny issues and there aren't easy answers. But acting like a big jerk--I'm talking to you, Monsieur Hollande--will only get you into a quagmire. And bring more misery on your people.
13
It is time for countries to collectively pass a resolution that any citizen fighting in an undeclared foreign war for a cause or for another country will result in the loss of citizenship in their country of origin or naturalization. No exceptions.
53
That gets a little bit sticky in a hypothetical case where a US citizen with foreign citizenship can be drafted into a foreign army.
The sophistication of these attacks can be seen in a single detail: the Syrian passport "found at the scene." Like any terrorist attack, I suppose, the goal wasn't just to slaughter innocent people—it was to agitate tensions between (mostly white) Europeans and Muslims, to sow chaos and turn Europeans against thousands of migrants who already deserved more empathy than they'd been given.
I understand the need for the press to provide full context, but telling us about the passport that just so happened to be left at the scene is playing right into the most critical phase of the terrorists' plot—the fear it would inspire.
I understand the need for the press to provide full context, but telling us about the passport that just so happened to be left at the scene is playing right into the most critical phase of the terrorists' plot—the fear it would inspire.
17
In this case, "false flag attack" isn't just a conspiracy theory, it's fairly clear as a fact.
2
Instead of taking in refugees from Syria, western nations should settle these refugees in safe camps in Iraq/Jordan with funds raised by auctioning immigrant visas to hardworking, law abiding, secular citizens from China, India, Vietnam, etc.
37
President Obama should be given high praise and continued support in resisting the calls for boots on the ground from the usual special interest groups, in this article our President points out the futility of playing whack a mole around the world every time a "terrorist" cell pops up their head. I feel we must at some point address at least a small part of the problem upon which we might have some influence, and for the lay person, reading the excellent new book "the generals son" by Israeli author Miko Peled offers the most balanced narrative I have seen for understanding this enormously complex issue. I would also suggest that we should not continue to try and force our brand of democracy down the throats of people whose historical feuding we don't begin too understand, if the horror that we initiated in the Middle East by attacking Iraq is not proof enough that the people of the Middle East must solve their own problems l don't know what is. Thank you President Obama for your guidance through the mess you inherited from the previous administration.
158
I agree it's a complicated world and our democracy isn't for everyone. Still, I think it would have been wiser of Obama to say we aren't sending more troops to Syria at this time, but we retain the option in case circumstances change.
2
"I would also suggest that we should not continue to try and force our brand of democracy down the throats of people whose historical feuding we don't begin too understand"
No one cares what political system Syria or ISIS uses. This is not about empire-building. It's about annihilating an existential threat to humanity not seen since nuclear escalation.
No one cares what political system Syria or ISIS uses. This is not about empire-building. It's about annihilating an existential threat to humanity not seen since nuclear escalation.
2
Will it be your boots on the ground?
During the recent debates a story was told by one of the candidates. A soldiers mother asked one of the presidential candidates to please stop using the phrase "boots on the ground." She said it dehumanizes the soldiers; it lets people see them as fighting machines rather than people with lives and families and people they love.
My child is not a pair of boots she said.
During the recent debates a story was told by one of the candidates. A soldiers mother asked one of the presidential candidates to please stop using the phrase "boots on the ground." She said it dehumanizes the soldiers; it lets people see them as fighting machines rather than people with lives and families and people they love.
My child is not a pair of boots she said.
3
Assad and Russia, the only real guarantee to wipe out terrorism in Syria, there is no need to invade anything, just support them please.
26
I wholeheartedly disagree. Putin and Assad have been very clear that their true agreement is the preservation of the current regime and not the defeat of ISIS. The US made a similar mistake in Iraq.
Russia is there only to protect its oil interests. And Assad is a vicious dictator who will keep killing Syrian citizens until he is stopped. No. They should not be supported.
@john willow,
Saddam was also killing and terrorizing his citizens. We took him out and look at Iraq today. We shouldn't support him, but taking him out will only lead to more of the same.
Saddam was also killing and terrorizing his citizens. We took him out and look at Iraq today. We shouldn't support him, but taking him out will only lead to more of the same.
It’s troubling that some of the terrorists involved in the Paris atrocities were well known to French police and security agencies - and some international security and intelligence agencies as well.
The pattern is becoming all too familiar: young males, often Arabic by nationality or family heritage, often adrift, with records of arrests for petty crimes, associations with radical Islamic clerics and groups, estrangement from family members and friends, lengthy unexplained sojourns in the Middle East’s trouble spots, and thwarted attempts to travel there to join jihadist forces.
It seems clear that the bar for the intervention by security agencies ought to be lowered - meaning common sense should be a trigger.
Civil rights must be honored - but it’s obvious that, in this widening war of stateless terrorism, we have to focus on individuals and cut them less slack.
The specter of a police state is frightening, and that is not what we want or need. What we need is old-fashioned police work, as they say, carried out with a reasonable level of skepticism about certain patterns of behavior.
The pattern is becoming all too familiar: young males, often Arabic by nationality or family heritage, often adrift, with records of arrests for petty crimes, associations with radical Islamic clerics and groups, estrangement from family members and friends, lengthy unexplained sojourns in the Middle East’s trouble spots, and thwarted attempts to travel there to join jihadist forces.
It seems clear that the bar for the intervention by security agencies ought to be lowered - meaning common sense should be a trigger.
Civil rights must be honored - but it’s obvious that, in this widening war of stateless terrorism, we have to focus on individuals and cut them less slack.
The specter of a police state is frightening, and that is not what we want or need. What we need is old-fashioned police work, as they say, carried out with a reasonable level of skepticism about certain patterns of behavior.
40
How many such young men do you think there are living in Europe and the US?
4
A disaster of inhumane behaviour, which is aggravated by retaliatory action. Yet such behaviour cannot & must not be ignored. Both Christopher Hitchens & Ayaan Hirsi Ali, have eloquently presented the only possible solution, Islamic Reformation. The solution must come from within. How this can be fostered is most challenging to our 21st century sensitivities, denying Muslims entry into non-Islamic nations, until they eliminate their intolerant subset. How can we possibly accomplish this without violating our own idealism? Hélas je n'ai pas de solution civile!
9
Our own idealism does not include being sitting ducks for the next migrant turned terrorist.
2
Why are these European idiots letting ISIS go back and forth between their country and fighting in the middle east?
32
For the same reason we allow the same illegal aliens to move back and forth across the Mexican border unimpeded. The Bush and Obama administrations have had no interest in securing our borders because cheap labor is good for big business.
1
Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Hollande, like O, believe that Western imperialism is the root of all evil, and all would be well if we stopped meddling. With that kind of thinking, nothing will happen. The only way to annihilate ISIS is to go in on the ground, round them up and kill them. All else means nothing. Will it happen? Of course not, Hollande and O believe they can talk ISIS to defeat, Hillary does too. Defeat will come out of the barrel of a gun or a bomb. Delusional players. Playing defense will get you nowhere. Offense is the only game that can be successful. Thinking about it, these players are so busy thinking surveillance and privacy that they think they are dealing with criminals, not terrorist.
6
As complicit as our nation is in helping to foster and in some cases outright create the situation that brings about such events across the globe, we should be involved in some way but more guns and bombs won't solve anything. Talk and compromise will be the only way forward.
1
European Muslims, where is your peace movement? Take to the streets for compassion, root out the evil from your midst, help lead your adoptive society to peace. Where are the peace leaders of the Muslim world?
406
they are busy praying.
1
Where are the peace leaders in the US? Why are they not protesting each time white, male terrorists commit mass murder at our schools, workplaces, restaurants, or movie theaters? Why are US peace leaders not rooting out this evil in our midst?
2
Good question. Don't hold your breath.
Killing the "mastermind" will not do the trick. Another "mastermind" in waiting will take his place. Killing Osama bin laden did zip in the fight against terrorism.
When JFK was assassinated our country did not miss a step. The same holds true for any smart organized group. Don't you think ISIS leaders planned for themselves possibly getting killed in action and who their replacements would be? Only the fool, like our President Obama, doesn't know that is how it works and thought killing Osama bin laden on his watch would end terrorism.
When JFK was assassinated our country did not miss a step. The same holds true for any smart organized group. Don't you think ISIS leaders planned for themselves possibly getting killed in action and who their replacements would be? Only the fool, like our President Obama, doesn't know that is how it works and thought killing Osama bin laden on his watch would end terrorism.
3
President Obama had no illusions that killing Osama bin Laden would end terrorism. Osama bin Laden was behind the attacks on 9/11. President Bush's administration failed to capture or kill him. President Obama's administration did not repeat this failure. It really is as simple as that. No one thought that it would end terrorism.
11
@Matt: Oh PUL-eez. Anyone would think Obama was on Seal Team Six and shot Bin Laden himself.
The truth is that a lot of people were looking for Bin Laden for years, and could not pin him down, due to sympathetic Arab nations willing to hide him for years on end.
We were rocked by 9/11 and unprepared, and it took a lot longer than we thought to find Bin Laden. It didn't matter "whose watch" he was found on, he would have been executed for his crimes. Do you seriously think that GW Bush would have spared Bin Laden or let him go free?
I suggest you re-watch "Zero Dark Thirty", as it explains just how long and how sophisticated the search for Bin Laden was, and that it was not a partisan political action at all.
The truth is that a lot of people were looking for Bin Laden for years, and could not pin him down, due to sympathetic Arab nations willing to hide him for years on end.
We were rocked by 9/11 and unprepared, and it took a lot longer than we thought to find Bin Laden. It didn't matter "whose watch" he was found on, he would have been executed for his crimes. Do you seriously think that GW Bush would have spared Bin Laden or let him go free?
I suggest you re-watch "Zero Dark Thirty", as it explains just how long and how sophisticated the search for Bin Laden was, and that it was not a partisan political action at all.
3
Funny how many people refer to President Obama as a fool. No matter how blundering a person is, no true fool makes it to the Oval office. Unqualified, inept, misguided...yes, we've had those and President Obama isn't any of the above. Never did he suggest in the slightest that killing Bin Laden would 'end terrorism' but that's a convenient lie to throw in there. He's suggested the opposite many times. He was 'cleaning up' unfinished business from the prior administration that stated finding Bin Laden was priority number one only to put it behind any and every other task they could think of basically ignoring it all along.
You are correct that the leadership will always be filled, even if that means a new group but your follow-up point is hollow, transparent, and patently false.
You are correct that the leadership will always be filled, even if that means a new group but your follow-up point is hollow, transparent, and patently false.
8
How difficult is it to get a search warrant in this political environment if there is any rational basis at all for suspicion? All the state of emergency does is authorize the authorities to behave like thugs and inflict collective punishment on disadvantaged communities.
2
The more I listen to the comments of the rightwing candidates the more clear it is they have nothing to say. The more complex the problem the more idiotic and simple minded their solutions; and the more they ignore even the most recent history.
But beware, the reasoning behind their statements are real. They want exactly what the terrorists want: to incite a global war between Islam and Christianity.
But beware, the reasoning behind their statements are real. They want exactly what the terrorists want: to incite a global war between Islam and Christianity.
8
No reasonable person wants a world war...right wingers included. If these muslim terrorists completely stopped perpetrating these acts of violence...what do you think would happen? In the meantime, do we let the threat grow unchecked? What is your solution?
5
How about the West stops the meddling in the Middle East and appropriation of its resources that leads to terrorism?
France is at war? Wait a second, I thought they were at war since started bombing Libya and removing/killing Gaddafi, and then joining coalition in bombing Syria. Or, does it start when you actually feel it on your soil?
4
An onslaught on Paris and real nightmare for the Parisians and France. Why then is the likely mastermind's brother and four others released from detention so early? I am perplexed by this premature release.
8
The left side knee jerking and political connect is appalling. Please refute the following facts if you can:
1. The terrorists in Paris are from the religion Islam.
2. The terrorists are either immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants in Europe, whose root is Islam.
1. The terrorists in Paris are from the religion Islam.
2. The terrorists are either immigrants or descendants of recent immigrants in Europe, whose root is Islam.
106
yes, they are Muslim. Does that make all Muslims terrorists, however? It's got NOTHING to do with being a liberal and not offending other's sensibilities. It has everything to do with logical reasoning.
18
It might give all Muslims a moral imperative to work to save their brand. Are there Muslims who have chosen to remain neutral in this conflict? Some people count them among the enemy.
4
Please refute the following facts if you can:
1. The sandwich I ate for lunch today was appalling.
2. The sandwich I ate for lunch today was made by Subway.
Using your logic, I can hereby conclude that all Subways on the planet should be completely destroyed.
1. The sandwich I ate for lunch today was appalling.
2. The sandwich I ate for lunch today was made by Subway.
Using your logic, I can hereby conclude that all Subways on the planet should be completely destroyed.
7
It has been more than 14 years and lord knows how many attacks by Muslim extremists. There are hundreds of thousands of migrants pouring into Europe from Muslim countries who hate the west, most of them young men. During that time the Muslim community has failed to police itself and in fact many Mosques have fomented this hatred and the barbaric acts that follow. Only 2 months after Angela Merkel's thoughtless invitation, we have Paris. If this is war, where are the ships patrolling the Mediterranean to stop more migrants. Hungary was right to close it's borders. Many of these terrorists, in all different countries, were known to authorities. There needs to be a mechanism to strip these people of citizenship, once they travel to lands that are know to harbor radical Islamists. These parents knew their kids were radicalized, as did others, they are complicit in their action. We cannot check out these people, they arrive without documents. As anyone who has followed this, knows that most people do not want this mass immigration. Build refugee camps in the region, send them back until they can be vetted. If these young men want jobs, hire them as ground troops. As France has shown, millions of Muslims have failed to integrate and continue to foment hate for their adopted country. Let's stop the PC nonsense that this isn't a Muslim problem, it is. These are not Jewish refugees after WWII, these are people trying to start WWIII. While we diddle, they murder.
403
Muslims not 'policing themselves'? Is that like every Christian that's killed someone or been the perpetrator in a crime/killing/shooting spree? It would seem then that Christians are 'policing' themselves. It is seriously faulty to suggest that the entire collective of followers of a religion should be responsible for what a small handful of extremist/radical followers plan out in secret.
Then fall back on blaming a PC culture that really has nothing to do with it. Why is being compassionate and inclusive (the real intent of PC right...) such an issue? Perhaps it is just an issue of xenophobia, the same kind that helps foment these kinds of mindsets on all sides of an issue.
Then fall back on blaming a PC culture that really has nothing to do with it. Why is being compassionate and inclusive (the real intent of PC right...) such an issue? Perhaps it is just an issue of xenophobia, the same kind that helps foment these kinds of mindsets on all sides of an issue.
7
These attackers were born in France. They are not refugees. Muslims are marginalized in Europe and have most of the lower end jobs. And they have to deal with bigotry from Europeans with the same hateful viewpoint that you exhibit.
3
What gives you the authority/expertise to paint all the migrants and muslims with such a broad brush? Do you not realize that 99.999999% of these migrants are also fleeing Daesh? That they also want to live their lives in peace just like everyone else? It's not about political correctness. It's about doing the right thing and helping these people before the whole region succumbs and is radicalized. Your humanity has been eclipsed by fear.
3
I am a Democrat but do not agree with Mr. Obama's comments at all. We should now go WHEREVER ISIS is - Yemen, Libya whatever. Send out the troops. This is not going to go away otherwise, and they will eventually come here. The time for half-measures is over. Destroy ISIS 100%. This is really no different that WWII in my mind.
59
Sorry, but this is nothing like WWII. Fighting a sovereign country is nothing like fighting a ideology. With a country you can at least declare war and physically degrade their ability to fight. With ISIS you may kill the soldier, but you wont kill the ideology behind it.
15
Send our ground troops out into that mess? Right now? Storm the stands yet again? And then? Increase special forces, sure, but Marines or Army infantry? I think that's a phenomenally bad idea. It takes enormous amounts of men and materiel to invade the desert, and as we are very slowly learning, the territory is virtually impossible to govern.
Every approach is the messy approach. All-out war by the West could be the messiest of all.
Every approach is the messy approach. All-out war by the West could be the messiest of all.
1
So we can achieve as much as we did in Irak and Afghanistan?
1
So in sweeping raids across France police have found weapons not only in suspects home but also in the homes of the parents of suspects. This is proving to be a quagmire that is going to be very hard to get to the bottom of.
30
And the PC police that is currently running the US will not even acknowledge or mention Muslim terrorism. And the White House is working to bring tens of thousands of Syrians to our country as refugees. And the NYT crowd continues to blame Bush.
79
Ummmm...what led to the rise of ISIS? Can the GWB crowd accept any responsibility? Actions have consequences, sometimes for very long times, which is why we need to think carefully before committing troops (somebody else's kid, you know) or our treasure to fight such a slippery enemy.
6
The people who caused this to pass were W and his regent in Iraq, Paul Bremer, who disbanded the Iraqi army and let them all take their guns with them. Face facts.
4
At least France has the courage to publicly state a "Call to Arms."
Mr. Obama has called for further retreat.
In the beginning of World War II America also turned its back as vocal isolationists decried any attempt for America to even ship arms to our allies France and Britain.
Western Europe is one of our great trading partners and also our military partner in NATO. For more than 70 years America has assured peace in Europe and throughout the world with the greatest military the world has ever witnessed. American stood fast with more than 300,000 troops stationed in Europe. Peace through strength was achieve. There was great certainty in the minds of the Russians, North Korea and China that America was prepared to act to protect itself and its allies.
As France calls its countrymen to arms Obama calls for ever further restraint and retreat. How many lives must be lost and destroyed before Mr. Obama will admit that pacifism and retreat is not a show of strength? Power vacuums, that Mr. Obama asserts result from weakness of others, do exist. However those power vacuums are due to American retreat. How many more attacks will Mr. Obama insist be absorbed before we've all had enough...enough of Mr. Obama's policies.