Whining aside, I don’t see what the issue is. The EU has provided funds to build and re-build infrastructure and facilities in the occupied territories again and again. And again and again, Israel has gone in a destroyed that infrastructure. The EU is trying to get its voice heard in Israel and judging from the reaction, it is having some success with lab the labeling initiative.
The learned professor talks about international law and its supposed violation by the EU but conveniently neglects to add how Israel also violates international law every day. Can he attest that the occupied territories are not different from Israel and their citizens, real citizens, not the settlers who imposed themselves on the natives, are treated the same way as other Israelis? If the answer is no, then there is no problem with the labeling in my view.
The learned professor talks about international law and its supposed violation by the EU but conveniently neglects to add how Israel also violates international law every day. Can he attest that the occupied territories are not different from Israel and their citizens, real citizens, not the settlers who imposed themselves on the natives, are treated the same way as other Israelis? If the answer is no, then there is no problem with the labeling in my view.
33
Speaking of 'singling out, h'er's a list of all the SPECIAL legislation in US that singles out Israel in the last 2 years.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/subjects/israel/6595?congress=113
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/subjects/israel/6595?congress=113
13
The occupied territories are not part of Israel. European courts have said that this does not FORCE EU governments to demand better labeling, but in npow way they said that EU governments are not allowed to demand better labeling, which they are doing right now.
. . . I would wish our government will not spend any political capital to fight our allies in the EU in behalf of Israel on this. We spend already 3 billion per year on Israel, which might be increased to 5 billion, I read, but spending even more time and goodwill on Israel seems wrong-headed. Even we consider the territories occupied and the settlements illegal, even if we haven't come to the conclusion yet to demand truth in labeling.
. . . I would wish our government will not spend any political capital to fight our allies in the EU in behalf of Israel on this. We spend already 3 billion per year on Israel, which might be increased to 5 billion, I read, but spending even more time and goodwill on Israel seems wrong-headed. Even we consider the territories occupied and the settlements illegal, even if we haven't come to the conclusion yet to demand truth in labeling.
41
Gee looks like Europeans today are just as anti-somatic as they were in the 1920's to 1950's. Somethings never change.
17
Naturally Netanyahu is also outraged on the labeling. I don't feel the least bit empathetic with Mr. Kontorovich nor Netanyahu's outrage in comparison to the constant encroachment of settlement on Palestinian territory. In my estimation the Europeans need to start somewhere to tangibly reflect what Israel is doing. Ultimately, Israel has every intention of keeping and expanding its settlements, thus contributing to the ever increasing instability of the Mid-East.
34
This is a good dialogue to have, because it points precisely to why under Netanyahu, Israel continues to strengthen commercial and military ties with China. If Europe doesn’t like Israel’s labels, simply ship the products to China. As Israel’s number one weapons customer, China gets to achieve quantum leaps in weapons capabilities. Israel can incentivize trade with China so that it doesn’t need those pesky Europeans with their label police. The joint Israel-China Med-Red project, will be a high-speed railway connecting the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea; it will serve as a competitor to the Suez Canal for transiting Chinese products to Europe.
Complaining about Europe is part of Netanyahu’s incessant campaign of hysteria. For one it has been over three years that Netanyahu infamously drew the red line on how close Iran was to having a nuclear weapon. Then it became the Iran Deal, now it’s Syria’s Civil War, all used to squeeze America for more weapons that Israel doesn’t truly need—China does. Israel's harvesting of the latest US weapons technology keeps China coming back for more.
Even Israel's opposition leader, Mr. Herzog knows that Netanyahu’s strategy of fighting everyone is not sustainable. America and Europe want more than Netanyahu’s empty rhetoric and to cease building in the occupied territory. If Israel desires to have no daylight between Israel and America on Israel’s security, then Americans should expect reciprocity from Israel on China.
Complaining about Europe is part of Netanyahu’s incessant campaign of hysteria. For one it has been over three years that Netanyahu infamously drew the red line on how close Iran was to having a nuclear weapon. Then it became the Iran Deal, now it’s Syria’s Civil War, all used to squeeze America for more weapons that Israel doesn’t truly need—China does. Israel's harvesting of the latest US weapons technology keeps China coming back for more.
Even Israel's opposition leader, Mr. Herzog knows that Netanyahu’s strategy of fighting everyone is not sustainable. America and Europe want more than Netanyahu’s empty rhetoric and to cease building in the occupied territory. If Israel desires to have no daylight between Israel and America on Israel’s security, then Americans should expect reciprocity from Israel on China.
16
The logical conclusion is then to apply the same standard to Morocco, not to conclude that two wrongs make a right.
23
Since the entire United States is occupied territory, should we not label products made in the U.S.A. as "European Settlement"?
Whatever your stand on Israel and the Israeli occupation (I do not support the occupation), let's not pretend this is anything but good old fashioned traditional European antisemitism. In almost every country the Nazis conquered, they had no trouble finding enthusiastic collaborators when it came to the persecution of Jews.
Whatever your stand on Israel and the Israeli occupation (I do not support the occupation), let's not pretend this is anything but good old fashioned traditional European antisemitism. In almost every country the Nazis conquered, they had no trouble finding enthusiastic collaborators when it came to the persecution of Jews.
29
If it good for produce in California it's good for products not made in Israel. This is as an excellent idea.
12
Europe Mislabels Israel
Lets not confuse greed with compassion.Europe has been the occupier & oppressor of Asia, The Middle East, & Africa.They are the last ones to judge anyones behavior, especially the Jewish people & Israel. They have replaced Nobel Prize Winners with the Rift Raft of the world. Now they are trying to appease them by condemning Israel.In a way I don't blame them. The Muslims represent one billion purchasers of European products, compared to
the Six Million Israeli Jews, & 15 Million Jews world wide. Ethics be dammed, show me the money. However, they know in their Greedy Hearts they are morally wrong.
Lets not confuse greed with compassion.Europe has been the occupier & oppressor of Asia, The Middle East, & Africa.They are the last ones to judge anyones behavior, especially the Jewish people & Israel. They have replaced Nobel Prize Winners with the Rift Raft of the world. Now they are trying to appease them by condemning Israel.In a way I don't blame them. The Muslims represent one billion purchasers of European products, compared to
the Six Million Israeli Jews, & 15 Million Jews world wide. Ethics be dammed, show me the money. However, they know in their Greedy Hearts they are morally wrong.
25
What's the problem with letting people know where products come from? It's their money, who is Monsieur Kontorovich to tell them that they have no business knowing where they come from?
Only a lawyer or a paid shill would advance such an indefensible argument.
Only a lawyer or a paid shill would advance such an indefensible argument.
40
What the good Professor fails to grap is the illogic of his own argument. If there is nothing wrong with the settlements then labelling products from them must be OK as well. If the settlements are evil then people should be made aware that they are spending their money to support evil. If the goal is to mask evil with the label "Made in Israel" then that can only be a bad thing. If Israel has nothing to be ashamed about regarding the settlements then the label "made in the Israeli settlements" should be a good thing or should make no difference at all?
55
Fine if EU labels settlement products as such, as long as they also do it for Tibet, Cyprus, Ukraine. I mean, it would take an afternoon. If you claim this is about justice, then do it justly. Anything else smells.
When the Palestinian's lose their high paying jobs which include health insurance, unlike when they work for Palestinian firms, I'm sure they will all thank you.
Palestinian "suffering" in the West Bank isn't quite what it seems.
http://jcpa.org/article/luxury-alongside-poverty-in-the-palestinian-auth...
When the Palestinian's lose their high paying jobs which include health insurance, unlike when they work for Palestinian firms, I'm sure they will all thank you.
Palestinian "suffering" in the West Bank isn't quite what it seems.
http://jcpa.org/article/luxury-alongside-poverty-in-the-palestinian-auth...
30
Fiddle on the roof as loudly as you want: When you do not abide by the rule of law, you cannot reasonably summon it in your defense.
39
It is shocking (or maybe not) that so many readers of the NYT have expressed such antipathy toward the NYT for daring print an editorial or Op-Ed which is not anti-Israel. It's so rare. And it's simply intolerable.
29
Such an uproar over labeling products that are indeed produced on Palestinian land? If pointing this out is so heinous, imagine how the Palestinians feel to have Israeli factories siphoning off their Dead Sea minerals, on their own land, and then having the audacity to insist on a "made in Israel" stamp.
All the whining on earth doesn't change the facts before our eyes: Israel is in violation of the Geneva Conventions by colonizing land acquired through violence, period. That land belongs to the Palestinians, both Christians and Muslims.
Whether ancient Hebrews inhabited Palestine 3,000 years ago is irrelevant, as is Alexander the Great's conquest of that same land. By this logic we can find a Caananite and cede the whole thing to him. Rubbish. Palestinian Christians and Muslims and Jews have been living in Palestine for two thousand years, with the latter being only 3% of the population in 1900, and only 22% by 1947.
It is time to let sanity prevail and push Israel toward the path of decency. If they decide to continue going on a darker route, sanction them, isolate them, and treat them as we would any other rogue state.
All the whining on earth doesn't change the facts before our eyes: Israel is in violation of the Geneva Conventions by colonizing land acquired through violence, period. That land belongs to the Palestinians, both Christians and Muslims.
Whether ancient Hebrews inhabited Palestine 3,000 years ago is irrelevant, as is Alexander the Great's conquest of that same land. By this logic we can find a Caananite and cede the whole thing to him. Rubbish. Palestinian Christians and Muslims and Jews have been living in Palestine for two thousand years, with the latter being only 3% of the population in 1900, and only 22% by 1947.
It is time to let sanity prevail and push Israel toward the path of decency. If they decide to continue going on a darker route, sanction them, isolate them, and treat them as we would any other rogue state.
55
Your argument confirms what many of those who "whine" about these double-standards against Israel already suspect: that the argument is not about the occupied territories, but about Israel as a state itself. In your argument, all of historic Palestine is at issue -- and yet (incoherently) despite your own assertion that historically the land has been settled by numerous peoples over the millennia, somehow certain parts of it are "Palestinian land," despite whomever might be living on it right now. You can't have it both ways. You can't have it both ways.
17
"The policy carves out a special legal rule for Israel" -- a blatant lie. No country has recognized the occupied areas as "Israel". Anything made in the occupied areas is not made in Israel any more than anything made in US-occupied Iraq (during the occupation) was made in the USA.
44
After World War II, during the Occupation, were West German goods labeled "Occupied American/British/French Zone of Germany"?
12
The sad part of this business of singling out Israel, is that it is part of the war of attrition engaged in by Hamas and Hezbolah, the surrogates of Iran. Europe seems happy to go along. Is it because Europe can beat up Israel with impunity and make itself seem important rather than being a large museum of hasbeens? Why does not Europe call out the real evil in this world. The Russians invading Crimea and starting a war in eastern Ukraine would be one examples. Why do not these holier than thou Europeans really open their borders for the migrants from the middle East instead of taking a few? Why does not Europe condemn the radical Muslims that murdered the Russians who were traveling in that plane over the Sinai? Why can not the Europeans condemn the people who just murdered the innocent women and children in two bomb attacks in Southern Beirut? Where are the harsh words for Boka Harom and El Shabab for the murdering and enslavement of Christians? And, why do the Europeans say nothing of Isis who crucifies Christians and proudly rapes and enslaves women? Are euopean cousins are very comfortable with singling out Jews. They have a long history of it. If they did not gas the jews themselves, they helped the Nazis round them up and happily so. Too bad American do not recall much of this history.
29
Given political trends in Europe, and the recent actions of a number of EU members, the EU may soon have much bigger problems on its hands---like its own survival.
7
Letting consumers in on everything from "made in Israel" labels to genetically altered crops and hormone injected beef is just part of a long list of issues that I as a consumer demand to know about. Israel as well as Monsanto and the beef industry all fear the enlightened consumer as this could mean a drop in profits for political reasons as well as other reasons the consumer might have to choose one product over another. The only thing missing in our "free" societies is the right to full transparency in all arenas which in turn leads to knowledge which leads to the ability to make informed and educated decisions which in turn is the goal of all truly free societies and their peoples. I for one will continue to buy "made in Israel" products, but I demand to be informed, call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they.
9
Americans wanting to support Israeli could consider a sympathetic boycott against European-made goods. We're a huge market, and if even a minor fraction did this it would be financially painful to the European Community.
18
And the rest of us can boycott Israeli products, even products sold by zionists who support illegal settlements in US.
13
This article perfectly illustrates why many people fear 'big government', bureaucracy, trade agreements, etc. It's because the rule of law simply doesn't apply. As Mr. Kontorovich states, there is no recourse for countries or governing bodies that break rules and laws, even their own. If you want to know why so many have opted out of the political process, here it is in black and white.
5
"These steps, while supposedly motivated by what the European Union sees as Israel’s occupation of territory, have been applied only to Israel, and not to other countries regarded as occupiers in international law, such as Morocco or Turkey."
Turkey does indeed illegally occupy the northern part of the island of Cyprus. Yet the United States have lobbied hard for many years for Turkey to be permitted to join the EU, the very same EU Mr Kontorovich accuses of being anti Israeli. In addition the US has, finally, acknowledged that Turkey is an essential ally in the fight against ISIS. The NYT has reported extensively on this situation.
All this pathos from Mr Kontorovich even though the practical relationship once enjoyed between Turkey and Israel has all but disappeared.
Turkey does indeed illegally occupy the northern part of the island of Cyprus. Yet the United States have lobbied hard for many years for Turkey to be permitted to join the EU, the very same EU Mr Kontorovich accuses of being anti Israeli. In addition the US has, finally, acknowledged that Turkey is an essential ally in the fight against ISIS. The NYT has reported extensively on this situation.
All this pathos from Mr Kontorovich even though the practical relationship once enjoyed between Turkey and Israel has all but disappeared.
4
Incredible how Europe thinks. By taking this action the Arabs of the world will like them better or hate them less? It doesn't work that way. They'll hate them more. They'll demand more.
Meanwhile, Israel whose inhabitants' descendants have contributed so much to Europe and Western Civilization, gets disrespected.
We're reliving a nightmare folks.
Meanwhile, Israel whose inhabitants' descendants have contributed so much to Europe and Western Civilization, gets disrespected.
We're reliving a nightmare folks.
19
The guidelines do not target Israel, they target Israeli settlement policy.
25
"As a putative role model for international law, the European Union’s greatest weapon is its probity and consistency." This is an excellent point. It is obvious that the labeling move is politically motivated, which is not bizarre; the disappointment is that the E.U. would give Mr. Kontorovich his only point by failing to apply the rule globally. The rhetoric of state victimhood in Israel is relentless, focused and influential. Don't give them that.
Mr. Kontorovich, in true form, undoes what little substance he added to the conversation by warning us of "reduced incentives to take international law seriously." That sounds to me like either a threat, or a joke.
Mr. Kontorovich, in true form, undoes what little substance he added to the conversation by warning us of "reduced incentives to take international law seriously." That sounds to me like either a threat, or a joke.
12
personally,, my mom likes the canned grapefruit from israel... and i like the canned smoked oysters from south korea.. comdemn me if you like.
5
Talk to me about illegal actions AFTER you deal with the contravening of International laws by illegal seizures of Palestinian lands; human rights violations and war crimes committed by Israel; and Israel's racist and apartheid policies. The amount of effort that is being undertaken by Israel and its advocates to try to block the BDS movement proves how effective it can be. We Jews and others who are still wedded to the diaspora Jewish values of justice will continue to fight against this scar on our proud heritage.
20
LittlebearNYC,
Thank You I was losing hope that Jews like yourself still existed.
Thank You I was losing hope that Jews like yourself still existed.
6
On these threads, a frequent pro-settlement point is that only Israel is singled out for criticism and sanctions. But of the two most egregious examples of current land theft, Israel's in the West Bank and Russia's in Crimea, so far, at least before the EU decision, it was only the Russian land theft that was sanctioned by the west, sanctions far more severe than just a required labeling of where certain goods are produced.
What puzzles me then is why all the posters who claim to value single standards for all, and now complain about the EU labeling decision on the basis of the EU"s supposed double standards, weren't heretofore eager to let Putin off the hook for Crimea because "Israel got away with it".
What puzzles me then is why all the posters who claim to value single standards for all, and now complain about the EU labeling decision on the basis of the EU"s supposed double standards, weren't heretofore eager to let Putin off the hook for Crimea because "Israel got away with it".
9
Crimea and the West Bank are actually incomparable in your context. Russia did not take Crimea in a defensive war. Russia was not threatened with annihilation.
And Russia is not holding Crimea because not to do so would mean the establishment of a terror state on the edge of its heartland.
And Russia is not holding Crimea because not to do so would mean the establishment of a terror state on the edge of its heartland.
9
I would like to see Professor Kontorovich engage in debates with other legal scholars on the legality of Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory and see how strong a ground he stands.
It amazes me that Israel can continue to expand the settlements with all the oppositions.
It amazes me that Israel can continue to expand the settlements with all the oppositions.
21
Can you please specify where the Palestinian territory is? My understanding was that it is "disputed" land - West Bank w/Jordan, Gaza w/Egypt. Their "occupations" didin't require separate labeling.
6
Mr. Kontorovich's argument contains an obvious significant downside for Israel. If goods from the settlements in the occupied territories cannot be distinguished from goods made in Israel because both are labeled as Made in Israel, the temptation is simply to boycott goods labeled Made in Israel as the sole way to avoid buying goods made by settlers in the occupied territories.
15
I thank you for this article. It has made me realize I should boycott all Israeli products since the US has no such labeling law and I cannot know whether products are made in the illegal territories or the legal state of Israel.
21
The good professor doesn't go far enough. Not only is the labeling legally unjustified, it is morally reprehensible. Judea, Samaria, Gaza and the Golan were all captured by Israel in a genocidal war of aggression launched by 5 Arab countries. Judea and Samaria was captured from Jordan which subsequently disclaimed any interest in those lands. Jews historically lived in those areas prior to the creation of the State of Israel, and were systematically massacred and driven out from their communities both before and during the 1948 war. They are morally, and legally, 100% part of the state of Israel, notwithstanding the moral hypocrisy and obtuseness of the rest of the world. No apologies should be made, and the Israeli government should officially annex all of those areas immediately and stop pretending that the local Arabs have any claim to sovereignty.
18
Keep spreading the truth. Usually, when you win a war you win the land. Check out Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, California and everything west of Los Angeles to the Atlantic Ocean.
6
You distort. It was a preemptive war in which Israel fired futdt
4
Meanwhile in the US, COOL (Country of Origin Labels) are being removed by congress as it is 'descrimnatory'
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/06/country-of-origin-labeli...
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/06/country-of-origin-labeli...
5
According to the EU, the labeling decision was strictly technical, loudly denying it was politically motivated against Israel. But reading all the anti-Israel comments here, it does seem close to 100% of folks understand the coded message quite accurately. So at least we all agree on one thing - that the EU are a bunch of bold faced liars.
9
What is illegal is the Israeli occupation and the extrajudicial murder of so many; what to many of us is genocide of the same ilk as suffered by Jews and many, many others during the second world war. It's also unfortunate that this op ed piece was portrayed on Facebook as a Times editorial.
11
Israel is an occupying power that should be held truthfully and honestly to account. That is why the labels. I don't buy anything from Israel as it is, but doubly I wouldn't buy anything made in the occupied territories.... I am all for the stance the Europeans have taken. Too bad they aren't so enlightened in more of the world's troubling arenas.
13
The settlements are illegal under international law. I would like to know the source of produce when I buy it. If it is produced by the. Illegal settlements I will not buy it. I applaud the courage of the EU
13
If Israel doesn't want goods from the illegally held occupied territories labeled as such, it should get out of the territories, or make a political settlement with the Palestinians. Personally I'm a Zionist, straight up, no equivocations. And I also have very few illusions about the Palestinians or their leadership. But the only way the current Israeli regime maintains itself and its frankly neo-fascist occupation is with US acquiescence, and the backing of apologists like Mr. Kontorovich.
The occupation is not just bad for Palestinians, it is the real-deal existential danger for Israel.
The occupation is not just bad for Palestinians, it is the real-deal existential danger for Israel.
10
I am stunned by how emotional the supposed legal argument behind this piece is. On the one hand using the word "ghetto" to describe the Territories, thereby invoking the spectre of the Holocaust and Nazi ghettoes for Jews, and then casually tossing out a veiled threat at the end that 'Israel may not have an incentive to take international law seriously,' the writer is asking his readers to be at once sympathetic toward and terrified of the nation of Israel.
The legal arguments hold little to no water. The national cases that he cites indicate no requirement to label goods as produce in the Territories, and later that goods produced in the Territories but sold as 'made in Israel' are not misleading to consumers. There is nothing in any of those cases to suggest that there is a prohibition at either a national or a European Union against such labeling. The author's arguments consist of one non-sequitur after another.
The legal arguments hold little to no water. The national cases that he cites indicate no requirement to label goods as produce in the Territories, and later that goods produced in the Territories but sold as 'made in Israel' are not misleading to consumers. There is nothing in any of those cases to suggest that there is a prohibition at either a national or a European Union against such labeling. The author's arguments consist of one non-sequitur after another.
9
Israeli occupation, including the economic products, is not recognized in most of the international community (this includes the US, an example is the Jerusalem US passport issue in Zivotofsky v. Kerry this last June). So clearly demarcating which products come from Israel and which from the occupied territories ... that's a decision that various countries and trade groups are increasingly taking. Railing against it like this bad editorial piece will not contribute to a constructive discussion.
10
The more Europe is overrun by Muslim migrants, the more their out-of-touch leadership will attempt to redirect opprobrium by stigmatizing Israel. Why not just label Israeli products with yellow stars? That is what this comes back to.
Will their people fall for it? I don't know, but it would be laughable if not for the breakdown of democratic principles in the West.
Will their people fall for it? I don't know, but it would be laughable if not for the breakdown of democratic principles in the West.
16
What's illegal is the Israeli occupation, not the EU's truth in labelling.
24
I will never ever understand how Israel both claims to be the true democracy, the beacon of hope in the Middle East, and yet compares itself to extremists ("look at what they do, are we to blame for how we react?"), or in this case compare the settlements to situations in countries like Morocco or Turkey.
Yes, Israel is the adult in the room, and both its citizen and the world expect it to act as such.
Yes, Israel is held to higher standards as other countries, because it feels way closer to us and our values.
No, these laws have nothing to do with anti-israel feelings, antisemitism or partisan ideologies.
They have everything to do with shame.
If you want to look for a more similar stain to the settlements, look at Gitmo.
Yes, Israel is the adult in the room, and both its citizen and the world expect it to act as such.
Yes, Israel is held to higher standards as other countries, because it feels way closer to us and our values.
No, these laws have nothing to do with anti-israel feelings, antisemitism or partisan ideologies.
They have everything to do with shame.
If you want to look for a more similar stain to the settlements, look at Gitmo.
8
Viva La France???
Your remarks are intelligent, though misguided and you ask a legitimate question. Allow me to rephrase: How can democracy exist in a framework where some people would exercise a democratic right to deny others' personal freedoms?
Israel is surrounded by extremists who place religion before law and would use democracy to limit religious freedom. For example, if all the Palestinians had a voice in Israeli elections being Jewish would be illegal in Israel. If Israel did not occupy the west bank, it would be used as a place to attack Israel (i.e. Gaza).
Therefore, Israel is in an existential paradox. They can not annex the Est bank, but they can not withdraw from it either. These are the reality of living in a democracy when other people who share the physical space believe in theocracy instead.
Israel is surrounded by extremists who place religion before law and would use democracy to limit religious freedom. For example, if all the Palestinians had a voice in Israeli elections being Jewish would be illegal in Israel. If Israel did not occupy the west bank, it would be used as a place to attack Israel (i.e. Gaza).
Therefore, Israel is in an existential paradox. They can not annex the Est bank, but they can not withdraw from it either. These are the reality of living in a democracy when other people who share the physical space believe in theocracy instead.
4
"the United States passed a law opposing such European Union measures against Israel."
Does anyone seriously doubt that the EU would not have acted as it did if the Obama Administration had, privately and public, indicated its strong opposition. The Administration did not do so, and made clear that it did not see the sections of TIPP pertaining to Israel as including the West Bank. Add that to the reaction of its State Department spokesperson earlier this week, and it is obvious that Obama is pursuing a passive-aggressive policy toward Israel--providing for its security needs and not taking hostile diplomatic action, but also not opposing the actions of others, like the EU.
Does anyone seriously doubt that the EU would not have acted as it did if the Obama Administration had, privately and public, indicated its strong opposition. The Administration did not do so, and made clear that it did not see the sections of TIPP pertaining to Israel as including the West Bank. Add that to the reaction of its State Department spokesperson earlier this week, and it is obvious that Obama is pursuing a passive-aggressive policy toward Israel--providing for its security needs and not taking hostile diplomatic action, but also not opposing the actions of others, like the EU.
8
No, what is unfair, and more importantly unjust, is the ongoing brutal, illegal, oppressive Israeli occupation of Palestine that is slowly killing the oppressor , Israel. If one is truly a friend of Israel , one would fervently work to end the occupation and restore peace with justice and equality of human rights to the so-called Holy Land. As my friend American Jewish psychologist, author of "Fatal Embrace" Mark Braverman says: " Zionism is understandable, forgivable, and a catastrophic mistake." This gross injustice must end and the U.S. must end its $3 billion soon to be $4.5 billion / per year enabling of Israel's oppressive disease.
12
Comparing Israel to Morocco is specious and legalistic obfuscation, Israel lives on a sea of US money and under a US diplomatic umbrella, it's effectively a 51st state.... And it's a state that is committing massive US supported depredations against it's own people. This Morocco deflection is a standard dodge by Israel right or wrong supporters, "what about X or Y or Z, look over there" Why pick on little Israel, a supposed first world democracy in the middle of the "arab horde".....please, spare us. Israel is this generation's South Africa, BDS worked there, hopefully it will work on Israel.
16
Ah! So insisting that Israel correct it's labeling for goods made on Occupied Land is wrong! Why? Because stolen Palestinian Land is Israeli Land. Wow! The audacity! So Israel may steal the entire West Bank ( it might come to that at the rate land is stolen ) and insist on 'Made in Israel'. Why should Europe, when Europe recognizes correctly, as Palestinian Land? And the threat that Israel might not have incentives to take international laws seriously. That's a laugh, considering they already DON'T. For Israel, it is always ,'my way, or the highway'. I'm glad the EU is taking a strong stand unlike us, who turn a blind eye to Israel's serious transgressions.
8
Telling the truth is illegal? Under Israeli law, at Netenyahus's convenience, clearly. Propaganda uber alles.
14
Finally, the Times lives up to its reputation with an intelligent, cogent and accurate article on this issue. Thank you Professor Kontorvich for this work. My say is this:
Yellow star = EU label
Yellow star = EU label
14
Perverse.
3
Professor Kontorovich is not helpful in mislabeling a lawful action of the friends of Israel as being illegal just because some exporters of the State of Israel want to misled consumers in Europe about the real origin of some of their exported agricultural products.
In general it is seen more and more as a proof of good conduct to label products as they truthfully are and not as some sellers want people to believe.
In general it is seen more and more as a proof of good conduct to label products as they truthfully are and not as some sellers want people to believe.
8
I am a Jewish and I find the speech of these Eastern European countries and so many of the posters on here very hurtful. They should stop. I don't like it. I have many friends and family in Israel and it scares the bee-jesus out of them. especially since the world has proven so many times that it loves to kill Jews. All of this hurts my feelings and makes me scared to walk in those countries or go to college campuses. Why must these people be so hateful of me? I did nothing to them. Why will so many posters reply to me in hateful language? I know it will make me want to cry when they do? Don't they care about my feelings at all?
3
It is Israel's actions which cause your problems. The world strongly objects to Israel's criminal behavior.
8
You are trying to conflate anti-Semitism with an opposition to Israeli theft of Palestinian land. Your being Jewish is not relevant to the discussion. I haven't read a single post here that attacks "Jewishness." Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is what is at issue, and the EU's desire to have honest labeling so that consumers know the origins of manufacture so that they can make informed decisions about purchases. To try to dismiss Israel's critics as merely anti-Semitic is nothing but a ruse, and I'm afraid it's played out. The world wants peace. Thievery and illegal occupations are not conducive to peace. And you have no more to fear on a college campus than anywhere else in the United States.
11
Oh! Stop! Stop this imagined tribulations Jews are subjected to in this country. No body picks on Jews for any reason in this country. Scared to walk on campus, posters, hateful language and killing of Jews? Are you sure you are not confusing here and now with Germany and Eastern Europe in the 1940s? You talk of language? Just recollect Netanyahu's, ' The Arabs are coming out in hordes ' during a national election. And Netanyahu's rant in our Congress! Every action against Israel for real transgressions is NOT antisemitism. And invoking the Holocaust which is a stain on Humanity, for every perceived slight is insulting the memory of torture and death of innocent people. And the comments in the Times is just a reflection of people's opinions about the Israel State and it's systematic flouting of International Laws and transgressions. They are in no way against Israelis nor are they antisemitic. So quit making it so. Besides, this excuse is wearing thin.
5
The professor makes a good argument about equal treatment. I would like to see colonial products from within all disputed occupations so labeled. Western Saharan products should be labeled. I would like to see Chinese Tibetan products labeled. I bet Argentina would like the Falklands labeled, but I don't think they would have a case. There would have to be a mechanism established to evaluate the need for labeling. I think, if you can get 100k signatures on a petition, you should label and let the consumer decide. The Seminole/Miccossukkee/Creeks could get Alabama, Georgia and Florida labeled, and rightly so. These states were cleared of their Indian inhabitants by a series of wars, slaving and ethnic cleansing over a period of about 150 years, preceded by 200 years of destruction of the original Indian inhabitants by introduced disease, slaving, and Spanish sequestration and forced labor. No one disputes that this land was occupied, and remains occupied by white settlers, and later arrivals. Most folks would keep buying products from these states, as most products from everywhere would be labeled with some sort of dispute referenced.
7
Britain ,Belgium and the Netherlands have been labeling settlement products for years. It gives us a chance to not buy products from the illegally occupied territories. That's our right and that's what we want.
Many of us don't want to support the Apartheid Israeli state, if they don't like it then change it.
Many of us don't want to support the Apartheid Israeli state, if they don't like it then change it.
18
Nonsense. Good move EU.
14
EU is a legal entity; can enforce laws regarding products sold under its Umbrella, that seems to be legal. Israel is a legal entity that can maintain occupation of Palestinian and other territories, sometimes with M16 and F16s both American, that is illegal by the way. Israel produce the best quality fruits, vegetables and other products from occupied terrotries and these products are based on the research and R&D their scientist, probably learned at MIT paid and supported by US tax dollars.
Israeli's have the best brains, they could have prospered and thrived even more without the occupied territories and maintaining policy of keeping Palestinians in slums. All EU is trying to do is, asking its citizen's to be aware of buying products based on their origin under UN Status. By the way that has declared many times occupied territories as illegal occupation. Actually, EU is doing a favour to Israel, pointing towards real potential it can achieve by changing policy of subjugation of people living under its illegal occupation. At the same time; EU perhaps, wants to give a message to USA, stop using Vetoes in UN Security council to support and enforce illegal Israeli occupation. The message is symbolic and clear in EU labeling initiative. I hope, the Govt. of Israel makes the right decisions to ensure the safety of its citizen's and especially Israeli children who deserve peace and safe childhood, rather ducking Palestinian rockets in unground shelters, that's criminal.
Israeli's have the best brains, they could have prospered and thrived even more without the occupied territories and maintaining policy of keeping Palestinians in slums. All EU is trying to do is, asking its citizen's to be aware of buying products based on their origin under UN Status. By the way that has declared many times occupied territories as illegal occupation. Actually, EU is doing a favour to Israel, pointing towards real potential it can achieve by changing policy of subjugation of people living under its illegal occupation. At the same time; EU perhaps, wants to give a message to USA, stop using Vetoes in UN Security council to support and enforce illegal Israeli occupation. The message is symbolic and clear in EU labeling initiative. I hope, the Govt. of Israel makes the right decisions to ensure the safety of its citizen's and especially Israeli children who deserve peace and safe childhood, rather ducking Palestinian rockets in unground shelters, that's criminal.
6
There may be one deep flaw in Kontorovich's Western Sahara analogy: Israel has never claimed that the W.Bank is part of Israel. The status of the settlements is ambiguous, by Israel's own choice.
W.Bank goods aren't 'Made in Israel' because Israel has never said that any of the W.Bank a part of Israel.
If Israel formally annexed the West Bank and Golan, then the W.Sahara analogy might apply.
W.Bank goods aren't 'Made in Israel' because Israel has never said that any of the W.Bank a part of Israel.
If Israel formally annexed the West Bank and Golan, then the W.Sahara analogy might apply.
6
I applaud the labeling requirement, but would make one addition: it should also require labeling of any product manufactured in the Gaza Strip and in Palestinian West bank. People should be able to boycott both sides.
I am frankly sick and tired of the lying, brutal behavior of both sides in this conflict. Israel clearly has a long term plan to gradually take over the West Bank, which is proven by just looking at a map of the 100s of Israeli "settlements" (illegal colonies, actually), with 2 or 300,000 Israelis spread evenly over the entire West Bank, among existing Palestinian population centers where 2 million of them live. For Pete's sake, Israel has already re-named the West Bank as 2 new states, Judea and Samara. One wonders, what do they intend to do with these 2M Palestinians? They will end up as refugees as the Syrians are now.
But the Palestinians are even worse, so don't get the idea I am only anti-Israel. They do not accept Israel's right to exist anywhere, and have been unable to restrain themselves from stupid acts of violence for decades that only serve to justify Israel's retaliation. The 1,000s of missiles and many tunnels that Gaza invested in, then used to attack Israel, instead of developing an economy for its people shows how impossible they are to live with.
A pox on both their houses.
I am frankly sick and tired of the lying, brutal behavior of both sides in this conflict. Israel clearly has a long term plan to gradually take over the West Bank, which is proven by just looking at a map of the 100s of Israeli "settlements" (illegal colonies, actually), with 2 or 300,000 Israelis spread evenly over the entire West Bank, among existing Palestinian population centers where 2 million of them live. For Pete's sake, Israel has already re-named the West Bank as 2 new states, Judea and Samara. One wonders, what do they intend to do with these 2M Palestinians? They will end up as refugees as the Syrians are now.
But the Palestinians are even worse, so don't get the idea I am only anti-Israel. They do not accept Israel's right to exist anywhere, and have been unable to restrain themselves from stupid acts of violence for decades that only serve to justify Israel's retaliation. The 1,000s of missiles and many tunnels that Gaza invested in, then used to attack Israel, instead of developing an economy for its people shows how impossible they are to live with.
A pox on both their houses.
4
A yellow star fixed to the front and back of each offending product.
Isolate, concentrate ...
Isolate, concentrate ...
7
Israel has an illegal nuclear weapons program. All US foreign aid directed to them is therefore illegal.
5
I wonder if the author of the article grasps (or cares about) the disgust provoked by its equivocations, omissions and exceptionalism.
Rafael Lemkin was the Polish-Jewish lawyer who coined the word "genocide." He wrote a seminal study entitled Axis Rule in Occupied Europe (1943). Its focus was *not* on killing but on the economic and juridical strategies an occupying power uses to destroy the political integrity, economy and culture of an occupied people. The underlying point is that there are many ways to destroy a people as such.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/lemkin/AxisRule1944-1.htm
I challenge anyone to read Lemkin's analysis and compare it with what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza.
The U.S. government and its media treat Israel rather tenderly. Most people in Europe have a more seasoned perspective. Consumers have a right to boycott products whose manufacture or effects are contrary to their values.
I boycott pork (as much as I like it) because I am appalled by the sadistic conditions in which suffering pigs are raised. When I do buy it I look for labels indicating "free range" and "rooting" I would just as much like information on products made in territories where people are caged and not allowed to roam free.
Rafael Lemkin was the Polish-Jewish lawyer who coined the word "genocide." He wrote a seminal study entitled Axis Rule in Occupied Europe (1943). Its focus was *not* on killing but on the economic and juridical strategies an occupying power uses to destroy the political integrity, economy and culture of an occupied people. The underlying point is that there are many ways to destroy a people as such.
http://www.preventgenocide.org/lemkin/AxisRule1944-1.htm
I challenge anyone to read Lemkin's analysis and compare it with what Israel is doing in the West Bank and Gaza.
The U.S. government and its media treat Israel rather tenderly. Most people in Europe have a more seasoned perspective. Consumers have a right to boycott products whose manufacture or effects are contrary to their values.
I boycott pork (as much as I like it) because I am appalled by the sadistic conditions in which suffering pigs are raised. When I do buy it I look for labels indicating "free range" and "rooting" I would just as much like information on products made in territories where people are caged and not allowed to roam free.
6
EU MISLABELS ISRAEL ? Sure the correct label for Israel is War Criminals Heaven.
3
Europe descrying illegal occupation? Ha, let us all laugh. The history of Europe is nothing but the attempt of all of Europe to occupy all of their neighbors at one time or another and to occupy and define all of the MidEast. As though Britain and France had nothing to do with the current problems in the MidEast and Northern Africa. They have all become so "holier than thou" it is disgusting. Israel is the only country in the entire world that is being required to give back land successfully gained in a defensive war. In this the world's hypocrisy is exposed and its deeply rooted anti-Semitism, grounded in whatever sounds good at the time, made to sound justified. Who's fooled by this nincompoop scheme? Nobody!
9
Funny - defensive war? As I recall Israel attacked the Arabs first in the 1967 war. I was there on the USS Saratoga just a few miles from the USS Liberty - an US ship attacked by Israel - killing - murdering 34 Americans - with the excuse we missed seeing that 20' x 40' America flag.
It is against international law to retain land taken and occupied in war.
It is against international law to retain land taken and occupied in war.
9
How is Israel the only Country being asked to return territory gained in a defensive war? Germany was occupied by the Allies after WW2. I used to admire Isreal but nearly 50 years of intransigence after the 67 war has eroded that completely. What else can you do to show disapproval but boycott goods made in the occupied areas - I would certainly welcome clear labelling.
3
The continuing saga of antipathy for Israel and its Jewish inhabitants by European officials. If you don't like the so-called "occupation" you must also really dislike the terrorism that comes at Israeli inhabitants every day from the surrounding neighbors. So if you want to conflate product labeling with occupation you must also include terrorist acts from Arab areas.
10
The author makes a legal case that the EU should be governed by their own laws on the books, including international trade laws and not by community activism of their NGO's and the activism of some of their member Euro foreign ministries.
That the guidelines and regulations issued by the EU should be self-reviewed for their harmonizing consistency. Before they are reviewed in the Courts. The EU is not any self-appointed "International GOD" and would be held responsible and called to task for any damage it does in the world.
As far as the State of Israel is concerned at this present time, it would not lend its hand to EU wishes and help establish two terrorist entities on her homeland. One, an Islamist emirate in the Gaza Strip and the other an Arab PLO/PFLP terrorist state dreamed up by Yassir Arafat and his Soviet educated, Russian speaking elites (with their Jordanian passports) in Ramallah. Both at war with each other and with Israel, when the timing is right.
That the guidelines and regulations issued by the EU should be self-reviewed for their harmonizing consistency. Before they are reviewed in the Courts. The EU is not any self-appointed "International GOD" and would be held responsible and called to task for any damage it does in the world.
As far as the State of Israel is concerned at this present time, it would not lend its hand to EU wishes and help establish two terrorist entities on her homeland. One, an Islamist emirate in the Gaza Strip and the other an Arab PLO/PFLP terrorist state dreamed up by Yassir Arafat and his Soviet educated, Russian speaking elites (with their Jordanian passports) in Ramallah. Both at war with each other and with Israel, when the timing is right.
4
I think that the EU should make sure that each Israeli made product has a yellow sticker with a Star of David and the word JUDE.
11
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously." I believe the part of my brain that processes irony just burst.
Funny how de-facto apartheid and illegal occupation means less to Eugene than stickers.
Funny how de-facto apartheid and illegal occupation means less to Eugene than stickers.
12
Based on the majority of the comments posted here, it's so refreshing to see that anti-Semitism is alive and well in America. Will we forever be the scape goat for all that troubles the world?
11
Actually the comments are a mix of antisemetic rants and racist anti Arab (those savages) , Jews-can-do-no-wrong-let-tell-you-about-the-holocaust type comments. So this neurosis of tribal hatred /paranoia/ victim complex seems well embedded on all sides. Thankfully there are also rational people here who don't automatically superimpose right wing Israeli policy onto Judaism, and are capable distinguishing objectionable and racists policies from legitimate rights and entitlements.
1
Step One: Palestinians- the "moderate" PA and The murderous Hamas (who are killing each other in classic, pre-Islamic, Arab style) recognize Israel's "right to exist".
Step Two Create Palestinian State -- which has been offered to them at leas 12 times since the UN 1947 decision to divide the area after the Brritish left, and which has ALWAYS been rejected them. Now a sovereign state, Palestine (or whatever they choose to call it, if they can agree to unite Hamas and the PA) becomes responsible to the International community (chuckle!) ) for stabbings, suicide bombings, and most important, ****education of their young**** who are currently taught to stab, bomb, etc. Jews, thus projecting terror into the future.
Step Three: The new state uses money now pouring in from certain international bodies to set up industry and agriculture and trade -- instead of that money being siphoned off to enrich their owncynical, criminal leadersl Who maintain their position by propagandizing to criminalize the Jews -- who only want to stay alive.
It seems pretty straighforward. But so far Israeli offers have been repeatedly rejected for over 70 yeara. The Palestinians fail to exploit their brains and industry, allowing criminal leaders to preach hatred and destruction instead of oooperation.
Step Two Create Palestinian State -- which has been offered to them at leas 12 times since the UN 1947 decision to divide the area after the Brritish left, and which has ALWAYS been rejected them. Now a sovereign state, Palestine (or whatever they choose to call it, if they can agree to unite Hamas and the PA) becomes responsible to the International community (chuckle!) ) for stabbings, suicide bombings, and most important, ****education of their young**** who are currently taught to stab, bomb, etc. Jews, thus projecting terror into the future.
Step Three: The new state uses money now pouring in from certain international bodies to set up industry and agriculture and trade -- instead of that money being siphoned off to enrich their owncynical, criminal leadersl Who maintain their position by propagandizing to criminalize the Jews -- who only want to stay alive.
It seems pretty straighforward. But so far Israeli offers have been repeatedly rejected for over 70 yeara. The Palestinians fail to exploit their brains and industry, allowing criminal leaders to preach hatred and destruction instead of oooperation.
7
Europe has always been anti-Semitic. Anyone failing to recognise that is simply not aware of reality. In fact, Europe is more anti-Semitic now that it has ever been since the 1930s.
I have friends who have been "escaping" European anti-Semitism -- from Scandinavia, from the UK, from France, even from Germany -- and either making aliyah or coming to the US.
The Times itself has encouraged this -- the idea that Jerusalem isn't the historical heart of Judaism, for example. What language do you think Jerusalem is? Spanish?
I have friends who have been "escaping" European anti-Semitism -- from Scandinavia, from the UK, from France, even from Germany -- and either making aliyah or coming to the US.
The Times itself has encouraged this -- the idea that Jerusalem isn't the historical heart of Judaism, for example. What language do you think Jerusalem is? Spanish?
8
@L Owen from Florida,
You have friends escaping from Europe ? Then why are so many Isaeli's moving to Berlin? You do know there is a trivin Jewish community all over Europe that has no intention of moving to Israel . Your post is dishonest.
You have friends escaping from Europe ? Then why are so many Isaeli's moving to Berlin? You do know there is a trivin Jewish community all over Europe that has no intention of moving to Israel . Your post is dishonest.
6
The occupation of Palestine is the longest running in the world. The International Court of Justice in separate 14-1 rulings have declared the settlements and the wall as illegal. These positions are upheld by both the UN Security Council and General Assembly.
If the situation is ever to be resolved it will require adherence to international treaties such as the 4th Geneva Convention and international humanitarian and human rights,
Rational people everywhere recognize who are the foreigners , colonists , land stealers , ethnic cleansers & brutal occupiers versus who are the indigenous people of Palestine who have been forced from THEIR land* to become refugees or to live gasping for life under the heel of Zionist occupation.
Even Jewish historians (eg. Ben Gurion, Ben Zvi, S. Sand) wrote that there was no exile of Jews after the revolts of the 1st & 2nd centuries were put down by the Romans & that the Pal`s are the descendants of the Jews who converted to Islam in the 7th century CE to avoid paying tax on all non-Muslims. They agree that the Ashkenazi are descended from European converts from the Roman Empire era + the Khazars & are not Semites.. Eg.
1/ “Historian Ben-Zion Denur & Israeli minister of Educ. called Khazaria the mother of one of the greatest Diasporas-of Israel in Russia, Lithuania & Poland”
2/ A. Polak, founder of Univ of Tel Aviv`s dept`t of Mid East History wrote that it was an unlikely thesis that the Jews in the Khazarian kingdom originated in Israel
If the situation is ever to be resolved it will require adherence to international treaties such as the 4th Geneva Convention and international humanitarian and human rights,
Rational people everywhere recognize who are the foreigners , colonists , land stealers , ethnic cleansers & brutal occupiers versus who are the indigenous people of Palestine who have been forced from THEIR land* to become refugees or to live gasping for life under the heel of Zionist occupation.
Even Jewish historians (eg. Ben Gurion, Ben Zvi, S. Sand) wrote that there was no exile of Jews after the revolts of the 1st & 2nd centuries were put down by the Romans & that the Pal`s are the descendants of the Jews who converted to Islam in the 7th century CE to avoid paying tax on all non-Muslims. They agree that the Ashkenazi are descended from European converts from the Roman Empire era + the Khazars & are not Semites.. Eg.
1/ “Historian Ben-Zion Denur & Israeli minister of Educ. called Khazaria the mother of one of the greatest Diasporas-of Israel in Russia, Lithuania & Poland”
2/ A. Polak, founder of Univ of Tel Aviv`s dept`t of Mid East History wrote that it was an unlikely thesis that the Jews in the Khazarian kingdom originated in Israel
2
The labeling is unfortunately counterproductive regardless of its being illegal. Many of the West bank products are made by enterprises controlled by Jews with Palestinian workers. Some have mixed control. Some have Palestinian control with Jewish involvement. There is no clear cut way of labeling these products even if it was legal. Thus this labeling can harm both Israelis and Palestinians alike.
Unfortunately, this is an poorly considered extension of middle east self defeating approaches and policies into the EU.
Unfortunately, this is an poorly considered extension of middle east self defeating approaches and policies into the EU.
9
This article gets it right.
Israel has absolutely nothing to apologize for.
For over 2,000 years this land, the land of Judea and Samaria, has been Jewish. It is like saying that the English have no right to England or the Russians no right to Russia.
You simply cannot occupy your own territory.
Anyway, the reality on the ground is such that whatever the EU may say or do, it will not have much impact in Israel.
Why?
These products to Europe account for less than 1% of those exported from the lands of Judea and Samaria. The bulk go to Russia, India, Singapore, the USA and soon, China.
All of this was well anticipated.
It will take more than some legalistic edicts from Europe to break the back of the Jewish state.
Israel has absolutely nothing to apologize for.
For over 2,000 years this land, the land of Judea and Samaria, has been Jewish. It is like saying that the English have no right to England or the Russians no right to Russia.
You simply cannot occupy your own territory.
Anyway, the reality on the ground is such that whatever the EU may say or do, it will not have much impact in Israel.
Why?
These products to Europe account for less than 1% of those exported from the lands of Judea and Samaria. The bulk go to Russia, India, Singapore, the USA and soon, China.
All of this was well anticipated.
It will take more than some legalistic edicts from Europe to break the back of the Jewish state.
19
In 1898 when Zionism was thought up in Europe, Jews were just 7% of the population of the region of Palestine. Jews planned to take over the region through immigration and drive out those living there for centuries - an action we surely would not accept from native Americans or Mexican who lived in our region before we took it.
There was never a time in modernity when Brits were only 7% of the population of England or Russians 7% of the population of Russia.
There was never a time in modernity when Brits were only 7% of the population of England or Russians 7% of the population of Russia.
"From the lands of Judea and Samaria." Right there you lose all credibility. The products come not from Judea and Samaria, but from illegal settlements in the West Bank. These goods should be labeled as such, to distinguish them from goods produced in Israel proper. I salute the European Union for not only knowing the difference, but making it part of basuc labeling. The numerical percentage of exports these products represent is beside the point. It is the principle of the argument -- and that is firmly against the extremist West Bank "colonies." Consumers should know if the product was produced there.
7
For over 2,000 years Native Americans owned Maryland. Therefore, who can argue that they don't have a right to your house?
They can simply not occupy their own territory, seized by European colonialists and then sold to you.
Your logic is faulty and based on a tribal history (the old Testament) and an imaginary God who gave you rights over others lands. You call it ownership rights, the world calls it imperialism.
They can simply not occupy their own territory, seized by European colonialists and then sold to you.
Your logic is faulty and based on a tribal history (the old Testament) and an imaginary God who gave you rights over others lands. You call it ownership rights, the world calls it imperialism.
2
Hypocrisy.
Europe is so worried about using tainted goods from occupied lands? Europe has been blatantly, publicly, occupying Jewish houses and land since 1940, longer than Israel's alleged occupation of Palestinian lands after a defensive war in 1967, but they seem to have no problem with that.
Since 1940, all over Europe, Jews were kicked out of their houses and land, and they were occupied by European gentiles. Six million people's homes- stolen. They are still occupied to this day. Far more than the 500 thousand Jordanian occupants of the West bank in 1967 who were not kicked out of their homes, but were occupied militarily to insure the area would not be used as a front to destroy Israel yet again after so many attempts.
No European is offering to return homes in Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, etc. Why not? It's not complicated. We're talking about a mere 75 years ago. Try to figure the value of 6 million people's collective property. Those who tried to return were met with silence or a gun. You can often still see the marks where the mezuzah's used to be in the doorways of these old homes.
To summarize: Europe, who is currently, proudly, occupying millions of stolen Jewish homes after brutally murdering their occupants, piously speaks from those very homes, to the grandchildren of those very occupants, and tells them they will not buy "their" occupied goods until they insanely risk brutal murder once again by narrowing Israel's width to seven miles across.
Europe is so worried about using tainted goods from occupied lands? Europe has been blatantly, publicly, occupying Jewish houses and land since 1940, longer than Israel's alleged occupation of Palestinian lands after a defensive war in 1967, but they seem to have no problem with that.
Since 1940, all over Europe, Jews were kicked out of their houses and land, and they were occupied by European gentiles. Six million people's homes- stolen. They are still occupied to this day. Far more than the 500 thousand Jordanian occupants of the West bank in 1967 who were not kicked out of their homes, but were occupied militarily to insure the area would not be used as a front to destroy Israel yet again after so many attempts.
No European is offering to return homes in Poland, Ukraine, Hungary, etc. Why not? It's not complicated. We're talking about a mere 75 years ago. Try to figure the value of 6 million people's collective property. Those who tried to return were met with silence or a gun. You can often still see the marks where the mezuzah's used to be in the doorways of these old homes.
To summarize: Europe, who is currently, proudly, occupying millions of stolen Jewish homes after brutally murdering their occupants, piously speaks from those very homes, to the grandchildren of those very occupants, and tells them they will not buy "their" occupied goods until they insanely risk brutal murder once again by narrowing Israel's width to seven miles across.
88
Thank you for pointing out how hypocritical and disingenuous the EU position is. The Europeans do not come to this table with clean hands, and if we are honest anti-Semitism is still alive and well in Europe.
4
You're right. The Israelis have suffered more than the people they have inflicted suffering upon, and therefore the infliction of that suffering is forgivable. Well done.
1
If I use your ideology, there's not any Jewish home or land in Europe as Europe in an ancestral homeland of Europeans, not Jews. Is it right?
2
Sorry, I think the labeling is great. Lets us know where products come from and allows me to not purchase them. Sorry for you.
22
Is the EU going to apply the same standard to Crimea and other territory occupied by Russia in the Ukraine? Probably not, because they fear any confrontation with Russia. The self-righteousness of some European countries regarding anything relating to Israel is reprehensible, but Israel is not a world power. The EU will not confront the human rights and other issues in all of the countries surrounding Israel because they depend on them for oil. Why is Israel held to a higher standard than any other country? I think we know the answer.
16
Amen, my sister!
1
Expect to be criticized when you claim to be the only democracy in the ME but holds non- Jews in open air prisons called Occupied Territories.
It's the hypocrisy.
Everything emanates from the Occupation, which you avoid mentioning of course.
Regarding oil, Israel is chomping at the bit to develop oil deposits off the Gaza coast- benefits which should go to Gaza but won't -- as well as negotiating with Moscow for oil deals in Syria.
More hypocrisy.
It's the hypocrisy.
Everything emanates from the Occupation, which you avoid mentioning of course.
Regarding oil, Israel is chomping at the bit to develop oil deposits off the Gaza coast- benefits which should go to Gaza but won't -- as well as negotiating with Moscow for oil deals in Syria.
More hypocrisy.
3
The good professor frets that "making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously." The continuing encroachments of Israeli "settlers" have made it clear some time now that Israel is as indifferent to international law as it is to world opinion. The labelling and the boycott should proceed, Kontorovich's tangled legalizing notwithstanding. It's a moral issue, not a legal one.
21
Moral issue? Use the same standards on the surrounding countries. Israel is just a better country than its neighbors.
3
Bravo to Professor Kontorovich !!
12
Mr. Kontrorovich's argument seems to be that the European Union is unfair to call out Israeli aggression, and besides that there are there are rules against it.
So in his mind its ok to do something you are ashamed of (if they weren't ashamed why would they care) as long as nobody says anything, and if they do say anything, claim that "everybody is doing it".
This is unworthy.
So in his mind its ok to do something you are ashamed of (if they weren't ashamed why would they care) as long as nobody says anything, and if they do say anything, claim that "everybody is doing it".
This is unworthy.
12
There is still a low grade, simmering anti-semitism that stalks Europe, and it rears its head in policies like this. You'll note that no other countries that have occupied territories get a special designation. (Are Crimean products getting an "Russia Territorial Crimea" label. I'll guess no.)
14
You don't have to be a Holocaust denier or anti-Semite to be opposed to Israel's extremist settlements and their often vehement Heredi politics. I support the EU in this, and wish America would adopt fair labeling practices. I would like to know if these products come from the settlements, which are illegal under international law.
4
When you have to invoke Western Sahara to defend Israeli settlements, you know you are beating a lifeless horse.
18
It is not a special legal rule. The settlements are not part of Israel, they are illegally built on occupied territory that the UN and the world says belongs to the Palestinians.
A large part of how Israeli's can afford to stay on this occupied land is by hiding the products produced there that make staying possible, under the Made in Israel label.
If customers knew that buying the product was funding the illegal settlements, even expanding them, they probably would not buy the products as these settlements are one of the biggest reasons for there being no peace.
A large part of how Israeli's can afford to stay on this occupied land is by hiding the products produced there that make staying possible, under the Made in Israel label.
If customers knew that buying the product was funding the illegal settlements, even expanding them, they probably would not buy the products as these settlements are one of the biggest reasons for there being no peace.
13
This move by the European Union is demonstrative of what every Jew already knows: that antisemitism is alive and well in Europe. When start labeling Jewish products the next logical step is to start labeling the stores that sell them, and then eventually, the Jews themselves. This is not far fetched, it has already happened.
Of course people say it could not happen in "today's age," but then again, this is exactly what people said in the 1930s and 40s too.
This is why there must always be a secure and defensible Jewish State. Jews must always have a safe place to retreat to once the ghetto walls start to rise in different parts of the world.
The boycott will not work. People living in settlements live there for ideological reasons, which i oppose, and would continue to live there even if they could not earn a single sheckel. The European Union would do better to help moderate Palestinian violence so that a two state solution would be viable- and then any Jews who wanted to live in Palestine lawfully would be able to do so.
.
Of course people say it could not happen in "today's age," but then again, this is exactly what people said in the 1930s and 40s too.
This is why there must always be a secure and defensible Jewish State. Jews must always have a safe place to retreat to once the ghetto walls start to rise in different parts of the world.
The boycott will not work. People living in settlements live there for ideological reasons, which i oppose, and would continue to live there even if they could not earn a single sheckel. The European Union would do better to help moderate Palestinian violence so that a two state solution would be viable- and then any Jews who wanted to live in Palestine lawfully would be able to do so.
.
10
I'm so tired of this antisemitism talk. You deliberately mislead by saying "Jewish" products would be labelled. I, for one, find it quite easy to distinguish Israel from Jews and find it strange that so many on this forum cannot do the same.
4
If they're produced in the occupied territories then they're not produced in Israel. The European Union is right to distinguish them from items made in Israel.
19
Unintended consequences go both ways. If you prevent consumers with moral qualms about Israel's occupation from distinguishing settlement products, many may eventually attempt to avoid products from either side of the line. I don't support BDS, but this may be yet another example of Israel behaving in ways counterproductive to its own long-term interests. (As a U.S. citizen, I've become painfully aware of how often nations seem to do that.)
3
Well, if these actions are illegal, Israel could always appeal to the ICC... oh, wait, no. It must be tough that there seems to be no recourse when a country simply violates international law with impunity. Very sad.
13
What is the big deal, transparency and honesty in labeling is something every consumer wants.
10
This isn't rocket science.
If something is made in the West Bank, but is labelled 'Made in Israel', then this label is false. Presumably such false labels are illegal in the EU.
Eugene Kontorovish seems to want to "carve out a special legal rule for Israel" in his words, that would allow them to sell falsely labeled goods in Europe.
The W.Sahara comparison seems to say "Morocco got away with false labeling. Why not Israel?" Perhaps his efforts would be better served by arguing against the wrongheaded Morocco decision.
If something is made in the West Bank, but is labelled 'Made in Israel', then this label is false. Presumably such false labels are illegal in the EU.
Eugene Kontorovish seems to want to "carve out a special legal rule for Israel" in his words, that would allow them to sell falsely labeled goods in Europe.
The W.Sahara comparison seems to say "Morocco got away with false labeling. Why not Israel?" Perhaps his efforts would be better served by arguing against the wrongheaded Morocco decision.
18
If consumers don't wish to buy products from the settlements, why shouldn't they be permitted to make that decision?
72
Basing his article purely on legal technicalities, the author ignores the situation the EU's action is meant to address: the relentless building of new settlements and crowding of Palestinians into smaller and smaller separated areas which cannot be be traveled to or from without onerous waiting at checkpoints. The restriction of water supplies from the aquifer under the West Bank so that an Israeli settler family gets five times as much water as a Palestinian family. The destruction of Palestinian water processing facilities as illegal. The continuing demolitions of Bedoin villages in the Negev desert so that one village has been demolished 70 times. These intolerable conditions make the old South African government's apartheid regime look benign.
20
Europe has been historically anti-Jewish, with short periods of "tolerance" for Jews, offset by long periods of outright discrimination and oppression. It is Europe's character and nature to be anti-Semitic.
If Europe feels that it is wrong to maintain won territory after a war (it apparently is for Israel and no one else), then they should show us the way by redividing Europe back to pre WWII times. Oh wait, those boundaries were set by WWI. Oh wait, those boundaries were set by the Napoleonic war.
Shame on Europe. Israel shouldn't give up one square inch of land to the so-called Palestinians simply because the Palestinians want it. There is not one iota of difference between the labeling of Jewish products for the purpose of European bigotry, than when the Nazis labeled Jewish stores and banks, before they labeled the Jewish people.
If Europe feels that it is wrong to maintain won territory after a war (it apparently is for Israel and no one else), then they should show us the way by redividing Europe back to pre WWII times. Oh wait, those boundaries were set by WWI. Oh wait, those boundaries were set by the Napoleonic war.
Shame on Europe. Israel shouldn't give up one square inch of land to the so-called Palestinians simply because the Palestinians want it. There is not one iota of difference between the labeling of Jewish products for the purpose of European bigotry, than when the Nazis labeled Jewish stores and banks, before they labeled the Jewish people.
9
The occupied territories are not Israel.
Those who think that the occupied territories are Israel take bible stories as legal codes.
If you don't agree with right wing Israel's religious assertions and military aggression, then you hate Israel are are antisemitic.
Right wing Israel's radical sense of entitlement is such Israel can receive vast sums of money and diplomatic cover and still be outraged and angry that the US won't do what Netanyahu wants, namely pick and fight a war with Iran that would cost the US more than the Iraq war did.
Obama was right to pursue peace in the Middle East. Hopefully Obama wont get extorted into even more aid for Israel. Israel is strong and should be left to stand on its own.
The EU is simply not letting Israel get away with lying.
Those who think that the occupied territories are Israel take bible stories as legal codes.
If you don't agree with right wing Israel's religious assertions and military aggression, then you hate Israel are are antisemitic.
Right wing Israel's radical sense of entitlement is such Israel can receive vast sums of money and diplomatic cover and still be outraged and angry that the US won't do what Netanyahu wants, namely pick and fight a war with Iran that would cost the US more than the Iraq war did.
Obama was right to pursue peace in the Middle East. Hopefully Obama wont get extorted into even more aid for Israel. Israel is strong and should be left to stand on its own.
The EU is simply not letting Israel get away with lying.
17
NYT, official spokesperson for Israel.
7
Although this appears to be an issue between Europe and Israel, the U.S. could set an example of international fairness by (1) adopting the same labelling requirement, but making it also apply to Morocco, and (2) making U.S. military aid to Israel proportionate to military aid to Morocco on a per capita basis. While this would result in military aid to Israel in the amount of only $1.7 billion, that still isn't chump change.
9
As an American Jew I've waited with bated breath for years, hoping my spiritual brethren across the Pond would solve this issue once and for all with a fair two-state solution. Almost clinched it, back in the waning days of the Clinton administration, and I always thought the Israeli nation, despite occasional backsliding, shared my conviction that a lasting peace by way of Mr. Clinton's vision was, ultimately, the only solution. I know--Arafat walked out without even making a counteroffer and started the Intifada--but he's been gone a long time. Since then I've watched the Israeli nation elect and reelect their version of George Wallace for prime minister, accompanied, for good measure, by Jerry Falwell for president. As the vision of my co-religionists in the Middle East has evolved--and diverged--so has my own. Given the failure of moral arguments to persuade Israeli voters to split from occupied Palestine (never mind that it's also in their own interest) I came to realize that the only way forward is through coercion. Hit them in the pocketbook. Reluctantly--I really do hate to make this comparison but I see no choice any longer--I believe the only way to nudge Israel towards a just, two-state peace is to apply the South Africa treatment. I remember all the legalistic arguments against economic sanctions on that country back in the 1980s. I'm sorry, Professor Kontorovich, but your arguments, whatever the legalese, they simply smell the same.
23
"Arafat walked out without even making a counteroffer and started the Intifada--but he's been gone a long time...." Any evidence the Palestinians would accept the Clinton Parameters/Kerry Plan today? Before labelling and talk of boycotts, would it have been better for the EU and US to endorse the Clinton Parameters as policy and request both parties re-start negotiations based thereon. Sanctions and other actions could come into play if either side refused to accept the parameters and negotiation, or acted in bad faith.
Well stated. As a jewish american, I agree wholeheartedly with everything you state. Because what you state is the truth and crux of the matter.
3
Dr. Daniel,
As an American Jew I to have waited with bated breath for a two state solution and was shocked when Arafat walked away from a good deal. That said, the Palestinians have control over Gaza. What have they done with it? Use it as a launching pad to send rockets into Israel. I used to think that the Palestinian on the street wanted to live peacefully and it was just their poor leadership that screws things up. Unfortunately I no longer think that. I believe even with a separate Palestinian state the terrorism would still exist and would continue until they had all of Israel. Then of course they would start fighting with their own Arab "brothers". Golda Meir summed it up, "there will be peace when they love their children more than they hate us". A boycott is not the answer, the Palestinian adopting a Ghandi/King like protest is the answer.
As an American Jew I to have waited with bated breath for a two state solution and was shocked when Arafat walked away from a good deal. That said, the Palestinians have control over Gaza. What have they done with it? Use it as a launching pad to send rockets into Israel. I used to think that the Palestinian on the street wanted to live peacefully and it was just their poor leadership that screws things up. Unfortunately I no longer think that. I believe even with a separate Palestinian state the terrorism would still exist and would continue until they had all of Israel. Then of course they would start fighting with their own Arab "brothers". Golda Meir summed it up, "there will be peace when they love their children more than they hate us". A boycott is not the answer, the Palestinian adopting a Ghandi/King like protest is the answer.
2
Does the NYT have no respect for the international law that declares the annexation of land through conquest "impermissible." Is the Fourth Geneva Convention dead to the U.S.? The International Court of Justice?
Six former heads of the Shin Bet security agency condemned the Israeli occupation of the West Bank in the Israeli documentary The Gatekeepers. One compared it to the Nazi occupation of Europe.
After 48 years of brutal occupation it is time for Israel to be ejected from Occupied Palestine, first through comprehensive sanctions against the conquistadore "settlements" and then against Israel proper.
Six former heads of the Shin Bet security agency condemned the Israeli occupation of the West Bank in the Israeli documentary The Gatekeepers. One compared it to the Nazi occupation of Europe.
After 48 years of brutal occupation it is time for Israel to be ejected from Occupied Palestine, first through comprehensive sanctions against the conquistadore "settlements" and then against Israel proper.
11
Not even Israel classifies the West Bank as Israel.
And Israel likes it that way. It means she can continue to deny most people in the West Bank the right to drive on certain roads, to move into Israel proper, and of course to vote.
And Israel likes it that way. It means she can continue to deny most people in the West Bank the right to drive on certain roads, to move into Israel proper, and of course to vote.
21
While the legal arguments have some merit, laws can be changed and probably will be changed. Suggesting that the sparsely populated Western Sahara with 500,000 people in all is commensurate with the Israeli occupied areas with over 700,000 illegal Israeli settlers in a much smaller area that has huge geopolitical consequences is dishonest. The reality is that most of the world has lost patience with Israel and its conscious choice to push Arabs out of their lands. It has not offered citizenship to them (and can't because it would destroy the Jewishness of the state) and it continues to effectively commit war crimes against them. If you want to talk about legal issues, consider the ramifications of punishing a population for the acts of individuals. That is a war crime and far more important than this little flap.
15
It seems to me that the EU should have consistent standards. Any goods made by Moroccan settlers in the Western Sahara should be labeled as made by those settlers. Likewise for the goods made by Israeli settlers.
3
What a surprise: none of the commenters saying it's perfectly acceptable for the EU to carve out a special rule for Israel on labeling don't make a peep when it comes to Russia's brazen annexation of Crimea. Israel always faces a double/higher standard no matter what the context.
The Palestinians cheered in the streets when the Twin Towers fell. They don't want peace or a two-state solution, which they've been offered countless times in the past. They want to eradicate Israel. Period.
The Palestinians cheered in the streets when the Twin Towers fell. They don't want peace or a two-state solution, which they've been offered countless times in the past. They want to eradicate Israel. Period.
17
Actually, it is very difficult to import products from Russian-occupied Crimea to Europe because of its ambiguous legal status and the presence of sanctions.... so...
1
Are you proposing we react Israeli's annexation of the West Bank in the same manner we did to Russia. No problem. Many would welcome it.
2
What on earth are you talking about? The European Union has implemented many sanctions on Russia over the occupation of Crimea - Crimean airlines can no longer travel to the European Union, its banks are not recognized, and sanctions have been imposed on leading Russian politicians.
Are you proposing that Israel be treated likewise?
Are you proposing that Israel be treated likewise?
6
Is there anything which prevents, say, members, or supporters of Hamas, Abu Sayaf, Al Nusra, Al Quada, Ansar al-Islam, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, ISIS/ISIL, or Islamic Jihad from commenting on this op-ed piece here in the Times?
No?
It doesn't seem that way to me, either.
No?
It doesn't seem that way to me, either.
8
If consistency is the question, I'm curious why Mr. Kontorovich doesn't call for the EU to label Western Sinai products as such. One thing I love about shopping in EU countries is knowing where my food is coming from, which is much harder to know here in the US. The call here sounds like it's for greater clarity, not less. The Israeli government has not formally annexed the West Bank, so based on this argument, the honest thing to do would be to label products from the occupied territories - whether occupied by Israel or by Morocco.
8
Just think for a moment that the inhabitants of that blighted West Bank were not the unfortunate Palestinians, but that they were black Africans. There would have been an outcry, fully justified, about a racist regime lording it over a black minority. Black Lives Matter, indeed, would have been the rallying cry, for the asymmetry of the dead involved, thousands vs. a few, a state armed to its teeth fighting basically a civilian population armed with rocks and outrage. The step taking by Europe is long, long overdue, and it is hoped that further steps will follow. America has long ceased to be an independent broker and instead acquiesces in support of a regime that is increasingly racist and undemocratic. Only someone with blinders on could believe that Israel actually wants a 2-state solution, deeds, - ongoing construction and settlements to create facts on the ground, speak far louder than words.
17
Prof. Kontorovich claims that "making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel's incentives to take international law seriously." Seriously, has it ever occurred to this distinguished law professor that there wouldn't be any need for special rules if Israel adhered to international law and the Geneva Convention? If Israel stopped its illegal occupation of the West Bank and brutal blockade of Gaza, the whole issue of "special rules for Israel" would not even arise!
13
Until they label all the products from other disputed territories including those in Europe, they are lying that this is not anti-Israel propaganda. Turkish invasion of Cyprus is considered a local issue. Double standard. Every country in Europe has occupied or conquered land. They have annexed land in war. There have been "agreements" that land can be taken as when Hitler was overrunning Europe. .There is no country which is not guilty of acquiring land. Only when it comes to Israel do any sanctions apply. They can claim this is just a labeling law when in fact it is discrimination against one country when many others are in the same position. China in Tibet, Morocco in West Sahara, Turkey in Cyprus, the British in Northern Ireland, the US on Native American land.
9
Basically I see this as a situation where Isreali businesses are claiming their products are originating from a place called Isreal when they are not. They are mislabeled. Europe may take the same steps for Morocco and Turkey when world opinion reaches the fever pitch of the Isreali/Palestinian debate.
8
The situation is s very asymmetrical.
Israel would be so much more honest if its leaders publicly owned up to apartheid and removal instead of playing the wounded victim.
Israel would be so much more honest if its leaders publicly owned up to apartheid and removal instead of playing the wounded victim.
11
Pot calling kettle 'black'?
Funny how an appeal to "illegality" can come in handy when you think it's on your side.
Clean your own house before complaining of others!
Start by ending ILLEGAL occupation and ILLEGAL settlement and ILLEGAL industrialization of ILLEGALLY occupied land and ILLEGAL exploitation of ILLEGALLY oppressed and displaced occupants!
Funny how an appeal to "illegality" can come in handy when you think it's on your side.
Clean your own house before complaining of others!
Start by ending ILLEGAL occupation and ILLEGAL settlement and ILLEGAL industrialization of ILLEGALLY occupied land and ILLEGAL exploitation of ILLEGALLY oppressed and displaced occupants!
4
Being hypocritical is not the same as being wrong. Yes, maybe the EU does let other countries get away with labeling products produced in occupied territories as their own, but that doesn't mean it's OK.
The reason this so important to Israel is that the Israeli's want to condition the rest of the world into thinking these territories are a part of Israel. It's part of their grand design for conquest.
And, to supporters of Israel, I ask, do you really want Israel to be included with other occupiers such as Morroco, Turkey, China, and Russia?
The reason this so important to Israel is that the Israeli's want to condition the rest of the world into thinking these territories are a part of Israel. It's part of their grand design for conquest.
And, to supporters of Israel, I ask, do you really want Israel to be included with other occupiers such as Morroco, Turkey, China, and Russia?
10
..... And what about the USA , Canada, Australia and all the Countries of South America, etc. - all of these Countries were established on the Land of the Original Native Populations... Yes, all of the non original Native Inhabitants and their Descendants who reside in these "territories" established during the Colonial Era ... Are " Occupiers " .... So go back to your original Countries from whence you came ...
1
Pot calling kettle 'black'? Talk about chutzpah!
Funny how an appeal to "illegality" can come in handy when you think it's on your side.
Clean your own house before complaining of others!
Start by ending ILLEGAL occupation and ILLEGAL settlement and ILLEGAL industrialization of ILLEGALLY occupied land and ILLEGAL exploitation of ILLEGALLY oppressed and displaced occupants!
Funny how an appeal to "illegality" can come in handy when you think it's on your side.
Clean your own house before complaining of others!
Start by ending ILLEGAL occupation and ILLEGAL settlement and ILLEGAL industrialization of ILLEGALLY occupied land and ILLEGAL exploitation of ILLEGALLY oppressed and displaced occupants!
14
It seems your readers are intelligent enough to understand the difference between the situation in Morocco and Israel. The settlements which continue expanding are illegal, period. How else do you counter this? Remember the boycott of South Africa?
19
I wonder if the Native People of North America are eagerly awaiting a European Union law labeling all Canadian- and USA-made products as "Made In Occupied North America"
10
More truth in labeling is preferred to less. For what GOOD reason would Israel object?
11
Europe descrying illegal occupation? Ha, let us all laugh. The history of Europe is nothing but the attempt of all of Europe to occupy all of their neighbors at one time or another and to occupy and define all of the MidEast. As though Britain and France had nothing to do with the current problems in the MidEast and Northern Africa. They have all become so "holier than thou" it is disgusting.
Israel is the only country in the entire world that is being required to give back land successfully gained in a defensive war. In this the world's hypocrisy is exposed and its deeply rooted anti-Semitism, grounded in whatever sounds good at the time, made to sound justified. Who's fooled by this nincompoop scheme?
Nobody!
Israel is the only country in the entire world that is being required to give back land successfully gained in a defensive war. In this the world's hypocrisy is exposed and its deeply rooted anti-Semitism, grounded in whatever sounds good at the time, made to sound justified. Who's fooled by this nincompoop scheme?
Nobody!
6
What's colonialisation got to do with today.... perhaps you'd like all the African and European Americans to return to their ancestral homelands!!
And don't forget that there was no 'defensive war' in 1967. It started with the Israelites attacking Egypt.
And don't forget that there was no 'defensive war' in 1967. It started with the Israelites attacking Egypt.
3
You shout and wave the flag. The fact is, however, you are losing the PR war which is a real shame and totally unnecessary. You used to have leaders who wanted peace and connected with the rest of the world. Now you have flag wavers.
2
No, it is Israel's behavior that is illegal.
The Palestinians are the victims, and whatever the EU and others do to help highlight the situation and prevent their continued dispossession is o be welcomed.
This campaign to make boycotts appear wrong (only where Israel is concerned) will fail. The world sees hat is happening, and the US is the last holdout.
The Palestinians are the victims, and whatever the EU and others do to help highlight the situation and prevent their continued dispossession is o be welcomed.
This campaign to make boycotts appear wrong (only where Israel is concerned) will fail. The world sees hat is happening, and the US is the last holdout.
16
The author is right.
There is and, I might add, has always been a double standard especially from Europe when it comes to the Jewish state and Jews.
Israel is expected to jump through hoops and meet largely political, left-wing expectations that no one else is asked to consider.
Jews were expelled from our ancestral lands in 70AD by the Roman ancestors of the Europeans. The Europeans then occupied our lands ( with exceptions for the Ottomans and others) until they were kicked out in 1948.
Jews never entirely left Israel and the lands of Judea and Samaria, the UN term for this area, and the Biblical term. They have been continuously living there for over 2,000 years. In the 19th and 20th century the rest of the land was purchased. In the Bible we are even shown how it was originally purchased. So we have paid for it in cash and blood over the centuries.
All the land of Judea and Samaria is Jewish. The idea that anyone could occupy their own land is ludicrous.
This attempt to label Jewish products vs. non-Jewish products is base anti-Semitism.
It has finally united all sectors of Jewish Israel except for the extreme left and their Arab, Jew hating friends.
Even if enacted, economically this piece of Israeli export makes up less than 1%. The bulk goes to Russia, India, Singapore and the US with China soon to take up the slack.
Once again, any attempt to harm Israel and Jews will further unite us in our determination to live as one people in our own land.
There is and, I might add, has always been a double standard especially from Europe when it comes to the Jewish state and Jews.
Israel is expected to jump through hoops and meet largely political, left-wing expectations that no one else is asked to consider.
Jews were expelled from our ancestral lands in 70AD by the Roman ancestors of the Europeans. The Europeans then occupied our lands ( with exceptions for the Ottomans and others) until they were kicked out in 1948.
Jews never entirely left Israel and the lands of Judea and Samaria, the UN term for this area, and the Biblical term. They have been continuously living there for over 2,000 years. In the 19th and 20th century the rest of the land was purchased. In the Bible we are even shown how it was originally purchased. So we have paid for it in cash and blood over the centuries.
All the land of Judea and Samaria is Jewish. The idea that anyone could occupy their own land is ludicrous.
This attempt to label Jewish products vs. non-Jewish products is base anti-Semitism.
It has finally united all sectors of Jewish Israel except for the extreme left and their Arab, Jew hating friends.
Even if enacted, economically this piece of Israeli export makes up less than 1%. The bulk goes to Russia, India, Singapore and the US with China soon to take up the slack.
Once again, any attempt to harm Israel and Jews will further unite us in our determination to live as one people in our own land.
8
Please, world trade organizations and nation states did not exist 2,000 years ago as they do now. Boycotting is an effective and clear means to use consumer buying power to show objection to bad behavior, to illegal acts. It worked in South Africa and should help with this untenable situation today in Israel of illegal settlements.
2
Who cares about ridiculous ancient history, what matters are the people there now and most of todays Palestinians ancestors were Jews and Christians before they converted to Islam. Big deal.....get over it as should all those blond blue eyed eastern Europeans that now call themselves Israeli's.
2
So why are so many Israeli's moving to Berlin? One people in our own land Really? Your blogging from Maryland.
2
The author is much more than a Professor of Law at Northwestern.
"Prof. Kontorovich "has emerged as a one-man legal lawfare brain trust for the Jewish state,” according to a recent essay in Haaretz.
He is a widely sought after lecturer. He regularly briefs visiting European and American legislators and celebrities on their trips to Israel, as well as speaking to hundreds of universities, synagogues, Jewish and professional groups in the U.S. and Europe."
http://www.jnf.org/about-jnf/in-your-area/speakers/eugene-kontorovich.html
This is the same JNF that has published maps showing all of the occupied territory as Israel. Perhaps the good professor can lecture us about the legality of that.
"Today, the JNF’s coin collection boxes, which sit on tables in Hebrew school classrooms throughout the Jewish Diaspora, are still decorated with a map that depicts Israel without the Green Line that, on most maps, distinguishes Israel from the Palestinian-populated West Bank, which it has occupied since wresting it from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War. "
http://forward.com/news/israel/190178/jewish-national-funds-iconic-blue-...
"Prof. Kontorovich "has emerged as a one-man legal lawfare brain trust for the Jewish state,” according to a recent essay in Haaretz.
He is a widely sought after lecturer. He regularly briefs visiting European and American legislators and celebrities on their trips to Israel, as well as speaking to hundreds of universities, synagogues, Jewish and professional groups in the U.S. and Europe."
http://www.jnf.org/about-jnf/in-your-area/speakers/eugene-kontorovich.html
This is the same JNF that has published maps showing all of the occupied territory as Israel. Perhaps the good professor can lecture us about the legality of that.
"Today, the JNF’s coin collection boxes, which sit on tables in Hebrew school classrooms throughout the Jewish Diaspora, are still decorated with a map that depicts Israel without the Green Line that, on most maps, distinguishes Israel from the Palestinian-populated West Bank, which it has occupied since wresting it from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War. "
http://forward.com/news/israel/190178/jewish-national-funds-iconic-blue-...
28
The only thing illegal here is the Israeli occupation. And the EU's move, while a step in the right direction, is far too little. Israel won't end its apartheid policies or the occupation and get serious about peace until it is forced to, kicking and screaming, by external pressure. This is why boycotting Israel until it respects Palestinian human rights is the only way to peace. Settlement products should not just be labeled; they should be banned outright. And I encourage anyone who cares about justice and equality to join us in refusing to purchase goods made in Israel, not just those from illegal colonies in the Occupied Territories. The occupation (to say nothing of the brutal attacks on Gaza) is not limited to the Occupied Territories; it is planned, maintained and supported by Israel proper.
32
Israel should never get serious about peace until the Palestinian leadership (not the people who are manipulated by their leadership) is serious about peace. Andrew, you're not truly concerned about human rights. You're concerned with bringing down Israel. That won't happen. Israel has much to improve on, but Israel-haters worldwide should realize that they hold Israel accountable to human rights violations in a way they do not apply to other countries. There is a clear double standard. Please recognize this and care about human rights violations all over the world. Do you?
2
"This is why boycotting Israel until it respects Palestinian human rights is the only way to peace." And what does the EU expect of the Palestinians in terms of a peace agreement?
2
When the continent responsible for the Holocaust, which is led by the primary perpetrator of the Holocaust, engages in anti-Semitic action, the world cannot ignore it. Bravo to Mr. Kontorovich.
13
Which Semites are you referring to? The Jews or the Arabs. Last time I checked, they were both Semites, and Europeans have problematic relationships with both.
1
The problem is not labeling products from the West Bank, but failure to label Morrocan products from its occupied territories. People have the right to choose and boycott products based on political motives.
4
A very lawyerly article that deliberately tries to evade the point, as revealed by this line:
"...a broader, purposeful and gradual escalation of anti-Israel measures..."
But they aren't anti-Israel measures. They are anti-Israeli apartheid measures. It's convenient, but regrettable, that the professor chooses to focus on product labels rather than the current Israeli regime's illegal, indefensible "broader, purposeful and gradual escalation" of oppression.
"...a broader, purposeful and gradual escalation of anti-Israel measures..."
But they aren't anti-Israel measures. They are anti-Israeli apartheid measures. It's convenient, but regrettable, that the professor chooses to focus on product labels rather than the current Israeli regime's illegal, indefensible "broader, purposeful and gradual escalation" of oppression.
16
Shorter history of the world since 1948:
For the first time in modernity, Jews acquire a nation-state and a mighty military.
Israel routinely defeats invading armies in defensive wars.
World freaks out.
The end.
For the first time in modernity, Jews acquire a nation-state and a mighty military.
Israel routinely defeats invading armies in defensive wars.
World freaks out.
The end.
12
You left out the part where Israel routinely and brutally flouts international law. Doesn't serve and is inconvenient for your homoginized (read, mythical) narrative?
2
The only thing illegal is the OCCUPATION. Not sure how a 'Professor of Law' can worry about the 'special laws made for Israel' in this case without worrying about the dozens of special laws Congress has put in place to protect the criminal behavior of Israel, including laws that prohibit US contribution to UN agencies such as UNESCO because they accepted Palestine as a member.
Special laws? Please, the only bills that pass Congress these days are laws peddled by AIPAC. Go worry about that.
Special laws? Please, the only bills that pass Congress these days are laws peddled by AIPAC. Go worry about that.
20
Was the U.S. occupation of Japan and Germany illegal as well? If you think the answer to that is yes, then you should become more occupied in fiction.
Allegations that "the Occupation" is illegal are, frankly, nonsensical. The Occupation results from wars waged against Israel, and the refusal of Arab countries (Egypt and Jordan excepted) to make a satisfactory and secure peace.
After World War II, the Allies occupied Germany and Japan. No one, to my knowledge called those occupations "illegal." Those occupations lasted until the Allies were satisfied that Germany and Japan would not threaten others. The same definitely cannot be said for Palestinian peoples and areas.
One might question some *features* of the Occupation (I do). But there should be no question about Israel 's *right * to occupy Arab areas that fell as a result of aggressive wars against.
Look, if someone comes at you with a weapon, evidently intending (don't quibble!), wouldn't you try to disarm him and hold him until you're satisfied that he won't try to harm you again? So it is between Israel ( which was attacked) and many of the adjacent Arab states & proto-states.
After World War II, the Allies occupied Germany and Japan. No one, to my knowledge called those occupations "illegal." Those occupations lasted until the Allies were satisfied that Germany and Japan would not threaten others. The same definitely cannot be said for Palestinian peoples and areas.
One might question some *features* of the Occupation (I do). But there should be no question about Israel 's *right * to occupy Arab areas that fell as a result of aggressive wars against.
Look, if someone comes at you with a weapon, evidently intending (don't quibble!), wouldn't you try to disarm him and hold him until you're satisfied that he won't try to harm you again? So it is between Israel ( which was attacked) and many of the adjacent Arab states & proto-states.
2
Alexander, you may want to read the UN Charter, which Israel signed in 1948 and the Geneva Conventions which Israel ratified in 1951.
Settlements ARE ILLEGAL.
Settlements ARE ILLEGAL.
3
Sorry, but not being REQUIRED to thus label products is not the same as being PROHIBITED from thus labelling. One's feelings on the Israeli settlements aside, this article - according to the information it contains - is built on a fallacy. Such careless parsing, when making such an accusation in a context this charged, is either negligent or wilfully misleading.
7
If the EU spent as much time and energy combating ISIS as it does in demonizing Israel, maybe we would be making better progress toward defeating ISIS.
11
Michael Numan Rio Rancho, NM: fighting ISIS required hard work, strategy, and money as well as contributions of boots-on-the-ground. Criticizing Israel is reflex anti-Semitism which so easy in Europe given its history and the unconscious need to somehow make the Holocaust seem more justifiable.
3
Wasn't it an American war in Iraq that created ISIS?
The EU labeling requirement sounds like a modest action given some of the alternatives. e.g. economic sanctions against the entire area without distinction akin to the treatment of South Africa during apartheid.
2
So many of the comments demand Israel make peace, but how exactly are they supposed to do that? They have offered multiple peace plans over the last 15 years and the Palestinian leadership neither accepted the proposals, countered or offered their own peace plan. They unilaterally withdrew from Gaza and watched Hamas which calls for the extermination of all Jews in Israel turn it into an authoritarian terrorist launching pad. Abbas, who is in the 8th year of a 4 year term, refuses to even negotiate. How could any government forge a peace plan under these circumstances? Doesn't it take two sides to make peace?
13
Brad NYC: most of the comments are made by simple-minded people who are ignorant of history and are easily swayed by what they see on television and have no idea of the complexity of the region and the responsibility Europe, particularly England, has for the internecine chaos it imposed on the region through its years of colonial rule.
4
Remove settlements and go with a 2 state solution...... then live in peace and harmony as neighbors . Fences make good neighbors.
5
Dennis Grafton, MA except that Hamas has as its goal the annihilation of Israel. You forgot to mention that Dennis, and the fence that was called the Maginot Line was so effective we hardly mention its efficacy anymore.
Fences? Feh!
Fences? Feh!
3
Israel's right to Palestine (which at the time included Jordan) comes from the 1920 San Remo Conference, at which the League of Nations divided the former Ottoman Empire. At that conference, the League of Nations mandated Britain to "establish in Palestine a national homeland for the Jewish people."
Nevertheless, pre-1948, the Arabs rejected two proposals to partition the country: the Peel commission (1937) and the U.N. Partition Plan (1947).
In 2000, President Clinton proposed for Palestine 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and the Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem. Arafat rejected the proposal after Israeli PM Barak accepted it.
In 2008, Israeli PM Olmert offered 93.7% of the West Bank and 5.8% of Israeli territory, Gaza, joint control over religious sites in Jerusalem, and the return of a limited number of refugees into Israel based on family reunification. Abbas rejected that offer.
A Palestinian state will happen only when there are courageous leaders on both sides willing to compromise.
Nevertheless, pre-1948, the Arabs rejected two proposals to partition the country: the Peel commission (1937) and the U.N. Partition Plan (1947).
In 2000, President Clinton proposed for Palestine 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and the Arab neighborhoods in East Jerusalem. Arafat rejected the proposal after Israeli PM Barak accepted it.
In 2008, Israeli PM Olmert offered 93.7% of the West Bank and 5.8% of Israeli territory, Gaza, joint control over religious sites in Jerusalem, and the return of a limited number of refugees into Israel based on family reunification. Abbas rejected that offer.
A Palestinian state will happen only when there are courageous leaders on both sides willing to compromise.
11
To those stating that they own goods from occupied Germany/Japan, well yes those were SOVEREIGN countries that were occupied until they signed peace treaties. Please show me than non-fictisous, non-wishfull-thinking map of a sovereign state of palestine that doesn't swallow Israel whole or is not prefixed by "The British Mandate of" or the Roman province "Syria Palestina" and at the same time, show me the peace treaty between the palestinians and Israel. Occupied Japan/Germany and "occupied" palestine are not equivalent. BTW, any attempt to claim that all of Israel is occupied is anti-semetic according to the US state dept. definition of anti-semitism, that is an attempt to de-legitimize Israel.
5
That's a very nice legal brief, but the real point is that most of the world objects to Israel's settlement and occupation policies, and will continue to ratchet up the pressure on Israel until it changes, just as the world did to South Africa.
10
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously" - This is laughable - since when did Israel take any notice of international law? It is the very fact that Israel disregards international law in its continuation of building settlements, annexing Jerusalem, collective punishment of civilians etc that makes it necessary for us in the EU to address this issue. Personally I do think a full boycott of Israel is required, this is indeed a small step in the right direction.
16
Trevor Somerset uk: of course, Trevor, you are well aware of the virulent anti-Semitism of your own country throughout its past and current history and I am sure you consider yourself free from the political machinations of YOUR country that led to the murderous, internecine politics of the MidEast as all Britons are mostly ignorant of their country's history. In addition to studying British History and the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict you might do well to notice that those poor Palestinians you sympathize so much with would murder you in your sleep if they felt it was to their advantage and the ONLY place you'd feel safe in the MidEast is in Israel.
3
Palestine is the only region in the world whose (for the want of a better word) 'inmates' are not citizens of any country. A Kashmiri on the other hand, however much he may hate India, has equal citizenship rights as any other Indian. Same holds true for any breakaway region.
There is another piece of the puzzle - the BDS element. BDS is phenomenally successful in Europe and is too "bottom-up" to be handled by any EU govt. To save the entire Israeli products from being subject to BDS, EU has created an 'anger zone' for the BDS.
The best solution to this problem is to accept every human being as a Citizen of Israel with Equal Rights.
The two-state solution is dead and it is time to work towards a 'guided' one-state solution instead of it happening suddenly one day like to fall of the Berlin Wall.
There is another piece of the puzzle - the BDS element. BDS is phenomenally successful in Europe and is too "bottom-up" to be handled by any EU govt. To save the entire Israeli products from being subject to BDS, EU has created an 'anger zone' for the BDS.
The best solution to this problem is to accept every human being as a Citizen of Israel with Equal Rights.
The two-state solution is dead and it is time to work towards a 'guided' one-state solution instead of it happening suddenly one day like to fall of the Berlin Wall.
6
Deep Thought Did you know that Palestineans born in Egypt are not citizens of Egypt. AS for the BDS movement, they do use products like cell phones, parts of which were developed in Israel.
4
Actually, are not the denizens of American Samoa not citizens of the US?
2
As well, Palestinians born in Lebanon cannot become citizens of Lebanon, -they have to live in camps so they could show the world how horrible Israel is; same for Saudi Arabia (if they're still allowed to live there), Syria, etc,, etc.
2
Frankly the best thing Europe can do is a 100% ban on all products from Israel until Israel withdraws back to the 1967 borders, remove all illegal settlements in the occupied west bank and remove all military checkpoints in the west bank.
26
MG Will that include medications and medical advances developed and made in Israel?
7
The EU will die if they ban Israeli products and technology.
4
MG Tucson: Frankly, MG you are wrong and ignorant, grossly ignorant, of the history of the region. The best thing Europe can do is admit it is responsible for the conflict by decades of lying to both sides about ownership of the land and refusing to force Hamas and the Palestinians to recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel and stop the hate-mongering they practice in their schools and mosques and redraw their maps so they don't show Israel as part of Greater Palestine. You MG of Tucson have been a sucker for Palestinian propaganda and the best thing you can do for yourself is get a little education.
4
Instead of the EU attempting to sieze the phony 'moral" high ground by way of labelling, why are they not not prodding the PA to come to the table and negotiate? Because they know that the PA is not interested in negotiations, only incitement, stabbings and worse. The EU rewards terrorism and further punishes Israel. Why should the Palestinians negotiate, when the EU, the ICC and the UN are doing the heavy lifting for them. In any event, they are punishing Palestinian workers who are employed making the products they want singled out & (tacitly) boycotted.
20
If Israel wants to play by the rules, then let it comply with the U.N. directive to vacate the occupied territories. It cannot pick and choose the international rules with which it will comply.
Prof. Kontorovich's essay is less than scholarly, rather it is political .
Prof. Kontorovich's essay is less than scholarly, rather it is political .
23
tbs detroit: Ha, ha, ha, ha. You certainly have a good sense of humor there in Detroit (spelled with a capital 'D'). I bet you need it to survive.
Israel doesn't want to play by the rules - the rules call for the eventual destruction of Israel at the hands of its enemies, if you haven't noticed - and I bet you are ignorant of the "rules" you invoke, one of which established the legitimacy of the State of Israel, which its enemies conveniently do not want to play by. Get it, tbs?
Israel doesn't want to play by the rules - the rules call for the eventual destruction of Israel at the hands of its enemies, if you haven't noticed - and I bet you are ignorant of the "rules" you invoke, one of which established the legitimacy of the State of Israel, which its enemies conveniently do not want to play by. Get it, tbs?
2
"... and I bet you are ignorant of the "rules" you invoke, one of which established the legitimacy of the State of Israel, ..."
Yeah, sbmd, and gave ISRAEL borders. Withdraw to the borders you were illegitimately (since natives weren't consulted, and the givers did NOT own the land) gifted.
Yeah, sbmd, and gave ISRAEL borders. Withdraw to the borders you were illegitimately (since natives weren't consulted, and the givers did NOT own the land) gifted.
The occupied territories are not a legal part of Israel--period. Selling products from these territories as produced in Israel is akin to selling a watch made by a Swiss-owned company in China as a Swiss made.
26
If the intent of the law is to ultimately make the life of the Palestinian in the "occupied territory" better, then this law will have the opposite effect. If the law leads to reduced demand for the goods, then the producer will move the factory into pre-1967 Israel or another country altogether. The result will be fewer Palestinians jobs and a significant hardship on the current workers.
It is always dangerous to mix social policy with economic policy. Capital can take flight very quickly.
It is always dangerous to mix social policy with economic policy. Capital can take flight very quickly.
9
The author's arguments boil down to one single point: that similar labeling is not applied to other examples of occupied territories. This is an argument for labeling those products as well - for example, products made by settlers in Western Sahara. There is not a single rational argument in this piece for not labeling products from occupied territories, as long as the policy is applied consistently. The author is well-known for his right-wing views on Israel, but this article inadvertently undermines his own position.
26
Actually, it doesn't undermine his position. Even you restated his bottom line position. If you label one, then label all. It would not have cost much more in ink to add a few more countries to the list. Why didn't the EU do that? Why did they only act against Israel? Why only focus on a single country? I see that as the key point.
4
The products are made in land that is not recognized by the international community to be part of Israel. If something is not made in Israel, seems like it should be illegal to label it as such.
28
Jeff P of DC: do you really think people will buy something that says, "Made in Palestine" without thinking it is a piece of junk? Seriously, man.
And you know the US took the Indians land with a series of bogus treaties - where are you on that issue?
And you know the US took the Indians land with a series of bogus treaties - where are you on that issue?
2
This is the most pathetic defense of the indefensible yet. "We're not doing anything wrong, because some one else is doing it too and you're not accusing them." If this is the level that Israel must sink to to justify occupation, there is no hope for change.
31
Actually, it's not a pathetic defense. Maybe Israel is wrong, but why single it out. They could have easily added a few more countries to the list. Holding Israel to a higher standard or a double standard is just not right.
4
Israel, quite correctly, often makes the point that it is the only constitutional democracy in the M.E. But it is also UN member and has signed several of its agreements.
Now, why should Israel not bear the responsibility of its actions when it refuses to follow the rules of the international community? Russia does.
Earlier this week it was reported that Mr. Netanyahu was in the U.S. to appeal for bipartisan support. It would be a lot easier to support Israel if it instead of demanding and appealing would actually do something to ease the tensions in the M.E.
Now, why should Israel not bear the responsibility of its actions when it refuses to follow the rules of the international community? Russia does.
Earlier this week it was reported that Mr. Netanyahu was in the U.S. to appeal for bipartisan support. It would be a lot easier to support Israel if it instead of demanding and appealing would actually do something to ease the tensions in the M.E.
16
timoty Finland: "Russia does". And when Russian invades Finland, like it did the Ukraine, where will you be Timoty and what will you say?
2
Most of the commentators miss the question posed in the article. The point is not whether or not Israel is right or wrong (so a good deal of commentators feel the need here to voice their opinions on that with some rather dubious arguments in favor of "special treatment" one way or the other). The question of the op-Ed asks: Does the EU new recommendation single out Israel? I suppose if that is not the case then the next step would be for the EU to start recommending a number of other labeling changes. Let's see if that happens on "technicalities" or otherwise.
11
How does the EU define the Golan Heights as "occupied"? It is part of the state of Israel, and its residents are full citizens (unless perhaps they choose to reject that citizenship).
3
Much is made in this article of the EU's supposed double standards concerning Israel and Morocco, and even if correctly summarized here - something I'm not sure about given the author's implicit pro-settlement bias - the polemic he weaves smacks of "if one country can get away with an injustice, why not another one". Nowhere does he state that the Morocco precedent precludes the EU ruling on Israeli settlement goods, only, in its worst interpretation, that the EU is hypocritical in applying its labeling standards. Apparently then, by the logic here, Israel should not be sanctioned for the land seizure for settlements because supposedly Morocco got away with it. Why then bother castigating any country for anything, since the chances that another country does the same with impunity are likely 100%? So, let's suppose Iran cheats on the nuclear accord: are the people writing in here against the EU ruling on the settlements ready to give Iran a pass because No. Korea gets away with it?
12
"Apparently then, by the logic here, Israel should not be sanctioned for the land seizure for settlements because supposedly Morocco got away with it."
Indeed. And by further Kontorovich logic, anybody should be free to seize any territory in the present, for the same reason. We need to punish Morocco before we can go after Russia for its invasion of Crimea.
Indeed. And by further Kontorovich logic, anybody should be free to seize any territory in the present, for the same reason. We need to punish Morocco before we can go after Russia for its invasion of Crimea.
2
This does not have to be complicated, as Mr. Kongorovich's lengthy digressions might suggest. The goods are from illegally occupied territories. As a consumer, I would like to know that.
44
Sounds to me you want to "know that," because you're merely an anti-Israel anti-Semite. Since Palestinians are Semitic people, why don't you apply your anti-Semitic rhetoric to them and their murderous suicide bombers?
3
The EU is well within their rights to demand the origin of products arriving on supermarket shelves particularly as Israel is one country without defined borders. It's about time action was taken against Israel as America appears unwilling and unable to do anything but hand out blank chequers.
14
The labelling of Israelien Settlement gives European citizen the reasonable opportunity to boykott products from occupied territoris without boykotting Israel as a whole. This is clearly not Anti-semitism. Antisemitic consumers would boykott any product from Israel. So the new propsed EU labelling is exactly the opposite. It is made for EU citizens with a differentiated opinion on Israelian politics.
14
This comment does not answer the critique posed by the article: that the EU is legally bound to apply its rules consistently, but it is not applying these labeling rules to any other disputed or occupied territory.
4
"Antisemitic consumers would boykott any product from Israel." I suspect that most of those who would not buy products from the West Bank, would not buy any products from Israel either.
1
I don't care whether the EU labeling is legal or not, just because they don't extend their labeling policy to Turkey and others. I believe strongly in the State of Israel, but I despise its settlements. Like Johanna, I want to know whether a product is made in Israel OR in the Occupied Territories.
"process of building a legal ghetto around Israel, within which a special set of rules applies"
.....It is Israel that is manufacturing the ghetto...and sadly so...wonderful talented people who have been led to believe only Israel is important... the curse of revisionary Zionism...only when you haven't a friend in the world will you reach your goal....
.....It is Israel that is manufacturing the ghetto...and sadly so...wonderful talented people who have been led to believe only Israel is important... the curse of revisionary Zionism...only when you haven't a friend in the world will you reach your goal....
7
The world needs to recognize the facts on the ground. Jordan and Syria no longer control or own their former territories in the West Bank and the Golan Heights. These territories are Israel's and have been for 50 years. This conflict will fester until we recognize the facts on the ground.
(of course it should be noted was and is no Palestinian state that ever controlled any territory as these territories were annexed by Egypt, Jordan and Syria when they invaded Israel in 1948, before being taken by Israel in 1967)
(of course it should be noted was and is no Palestinian state that ever controlled any territory as these territories were annexed by Egypt, Jordan and Syria when they invaded Israel in 1948, before being taken by Israel in 1967)
9
Since when did "facts on the ground" become the law? The Golan Heights was annexed by Israel. Did Israel buy it? What an absurd argument
1
John You made a very important point. I hope everyone reads what you said.
2
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously."
This must be the most laughable, most hypocritical line in this argument. Apparently, any attempt to hold Israel responsible for ignoring international law and norms reduces Israel's respect for international law, and must be halted lest Israel become even more of a rogue state than it is. The author would have it that issuing traffic citations to thieves only encourages the lawlessness of thieves.
This must be the most laughable, most hypocritical line in this argument. Apparently, any attempt to hold Israel responsible for ignoring international law and norms reduces Israel's respect for international law, and must be halted lest Israel become even more of a rogue state than it is. The author would have it that issuing traffic citations to thieves only encourages the lawlessness of thieves.
20
Hardly. The point is if Israel is the only speeder on the highway that receives a speeding ticket while other countries are speeding much faster, why should Isarel pay the fine?
4
And for those who may have missed the news, it appears 100,000 settlements are proposed for the Golan Heights by Israel. Will this be declared "occupied terroritory" as well?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/middleeast/syria-civil-war-israe...
"That growth is tiny compared with the aggressive development goal — 100,000 new residents across the Golan in five years — being promoted by Naftali Bennett, a senior Israeli minister and one of many Israeli leaders and thinkers seizing on the chaos in Syria to solidify Israel’s hold on the Golan."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/middleeast/syria-civil-war-israe...
"That growth is tiny compared with the aggressive development goal — 100,000 new residents across the Golan in five years — being promoted by Naftali Bennett, a senior Israeli minister and one of many Israeli leaders and thinkers seizing on the chaos in Syria to solidify Israel’s hold on the Golan."
9
EU is one hundred percent. Israel cannot commit long term domination of an area without annexation. If it is not Israel, and is occupied territory, then it must be called Israeli settlement territory. QED. The op ed is symptomatic of the bias that has been mobilized on behalf of Israel.
Israel: there is no alternative to a two state solution. As long as Israel fends off a just solution, the legal status of un-annexed occupied territories must be just that: settlement lands.
Israel: there is no alternative to a two state solution. As long as Israel fends off a just solution, the legal status of un-annexed occupied territories must be just that: settlement lands.
13
Not withstanding Israeli intransigence in settling Palestinian issue , European union must always remember its application of arbitrary laws will not help in gaining international community's respect.
Above rule may win them some brownie points in some respects but their credibility has less glow now.
Brussels must use their collective calm heads to come with better non discriminatory playbook.
Above rule may win them some brownie points in some respects but their credibility has less glow now.
Brussels must use their collective calm heads to come with better non discriminatory playbook.
8
Intransigence? Is that why the Palestinians have rejected EVERY peace offer ever made to them?
4
It is Palestinian intransigence, not Israeli. Peace accords under Carter? Peace accords under Clinton? Yeah, whatever.
4
It is revealing that the arguments presented in the article assume that a narrow interpretation of trade regulations trump basic human rights. profit above all. And why is assumed that labeling things from the occupied west bank will cause less to be purchased? Without proof of this there is no harm and no basis for complaint (or suit). A law professor should realize this.
8
The settlements are not Israel and, especially in the case of the occupied territories, place of origin is of great importance. I, for one, do not want to promote or consume the product of an illegal and 'permanent' occupation or in any way support that occupation, so the distinction is crucial as it is accurate.
Europe is doing the right thing, correcting a longtime misnomer. It's the US, Israel's global mouthpiece and coddling lackey, that continues to "mislabel".
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” - ARIEL SHARON, former prime minister of Israel, Oct. 3, 2001
Tell me about it!
Please read :
Palestinian Dies as Undercover Israelis Raid a Hospital [in the West Bank]
By ISABEL KERSHNER
THE NEW YORK TIMES: Nov. 12, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-hosp...
Then label it. This is the product of the occupied territories as well, the ever more sinister part.
“Hunting Jews has always been a European sport. Now the Palestinians, who never played it, are paying the bill.”
~ EDUARDO GALEANO (b. 1940) Uruguayan journalist, writer and novelist
Europe is doing the right thing, correcting a longtime misnomer. It's the US, Israel's global mouthpiece and coddling lackey, that continues to "mislabel".
“Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” - ARIEL SHARON, former prime minister of Israel, Oct. 3, 2001
Tell me about it!
Please read :
Palestinian Dies as Undercover Israelis Raid a Hospital [in the West Bank]
By ISABEL KERSHNER
THE NEW YORK TIMES: Nov. 12, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/13/world/middleeast/israel-west-bank-hosp...
Then label it. This is the product of the occupied territories as well, the ever more sinister part.
“Hunting Jews has always been a European sport. Now the Palestinians, who never played it, are paying the bill.”
~ EDUARDO GALEANO (b. 1940) Uruguayan journalist, writer and novelist
18
Israel raiding a hospital to capture a murderer who stabbed someone to death is a big sinister deal for you. But no complaints whatsoever that Palestinian terror squads routinely use ambulances to hide their movements and that the Hamas leadership itself embedded its command and control center underneath the al Shifa Hospital in Gaza because it knows Israel will never destroy a hospital no matter what? You think Hamas or even Fatah would show the same restraint?
The official definition of anti-semitism includes apply a standard to Jews or to Israel not applied to any other people or nation. You were saying, Robert?
The official definition of anti-semitism includes apply a standard to Jews or to Israel not applied to any other people or nation. You were saying, Robert?
6
That purported quote from Sharon is a hoax.
2
@ JW
• You think Hamas or even Fatah would show the same restraint?
They are avenging victims of oppression – no more than Israelis show for Palestinians.
Your murderer, my freedom fighter.
“Humans see what they want to see.” ~ RICK RIORDAN (b. 1964) American author
PS-
“But I also find irksome the attempts to use the label “anti-Semitism” as a tool for silencing dissent.”
~ MICHAEL MARDER
(b. 1980)
Philosophy professor in the at the University of the Basque Country.
NYTimes: July 20, 2014
• You think Hamas or even Fatah would show the same restraint?
They are avenging victims of oppression – no more than Israelis show for Palestinians.
Your murderer, my freedom fighter.
“Humans see what they want to see.” ~ RICK RIORDAN (b. 1964) American author
PS-
“But I also find irksome the attempts to use the label “anti-Semitism” as a tool for silencing dissent.”
~ MICHAEL MARDER
(b. 1980)
Philosophy professor in the at the University of the Basque Country.
NYTimes: July 20, 2014
1
EU's "illegality" is a minor one compared to the land grab and cleansing of Palestinian lands by Israel.
The EU's action is about letters on a piece of paperwhat they are doing has a justification - and . Israel's action impact and destroy millions of lives. Israel's actions have no justification.
It is like a murderer attacking the policeman for wrong spelling, and expecting to get away with murder.
The EU's action is about letters on a piece of paperwhat they are doing has a justification - and . Israel's action impact and destroy millions of lives. Israel's actions have no justification.
It is like a murderer attacking the policeman for wrong spelling, and expecting to get away with murder.
24
Wow. The author is angry at the EU for " building a legal ghetto around Israel, within which a special set of rules applies.". Aside from the issue of legality, is this not exactly what has been done in the Palestinian areas.
29
This is article is typical of the legalistic pap trotted out by Israel when it's challenged on moral grounds.
End of story.
End of story.
24
The labeling of settlement products flows from the awareness, more and more in Europe as well as the rest of the world, of the brutality of the occupation especially since last year with the failure of the peace talks and the Gaza war, not to forget Netanyahu's statements and far right appointments. Morocco is no comparison.
13
Israel overplayed its hand - plain and simple. Netanyahu's bellicosity and the intransigence of the religious right have forced people to reevaluate their support.
25
Kontorovitch has barely not said that labeling products for the EU as not from Israel proper is anti semitism. Because according to many sources in Israel it is. As is everything that does not agree with the zionist interpretation of law and history. Also Kontorovitch has not said that thousands of special regulations that favour goods from Israel and give them free acces to the EU market, has sustained the Israel economy for decades. Israel has designed asked for and recieved these special privilges for goods from Israel. Not from not-Israel.Not from areas are that quite brutally emptied of water,freedom, housebuilding and education for non Israeli's. This OpEd is of a rare discriminatory power, between what is important and what is not.
11
Well said Pcohen. And I'm sure all the Israel-hater BDS types in France will invite you to the next cafe meet-up to show up the Jew who spits on the Jewish State. Don't be surprised though when your usefulness is over and they sell you down the river as fast as these types did 70 years ago.
4
Even though many could care less about the illegal division of Cyprus, the long term occupation of Western Sahara or Tibet (the latter which is brutal, with millions of ethnic Chinese forced to move there), the fact is the EU is treating Israel differently. As to Israel having favorite status as a trading partner, it's two fold. Part of the motivation is pure business-the products are very good, delivery reliable. The other part, of course, is to alleviate the burden Europe has, correctly, to the Jewish world. But, many Europeans, and the "liberal" Americans who concur, feel they have no further obligations to Israel and its Jews, and labeling settlement goods is a first step.
What the Professor didn't mention in this op-ed is the multitude of proofs that the West Bank is at best disputed land, certainly not guaranteed to the Palestinians. Excepting the parts which Israel handed over to the PA resulting from the Oslo Accords, the rest is technically endowed to the Jewish people as part of their homeland. See why the PA can't dissolve itself? It then loses its hold on the 40% allotted to it, by an international agreement.
What the Professor didn't mention in this op-ed is the multitude of proofs that the West Bank is at best disputed land, certainly not guaranteed to the Palestinians. Excepting the parts which Israel handed over to the PA resulting from the Oslo Accords, the rest is technically endowed to the Jewish people as part of their homeland. See why the PA can't dissolve itself? It then loses its hold on the 40% allotted to it, by an international agreement.
15
The fact is that Israel has long had a free ride in Western European capitols and the U.S. because its legitimate critics were accused of , and afraid of being accused of being anti-semites! It is no longer getting a free ride. And a lot of people, mainly, but not exclusively, Israelis and the right and jewish right wing in the U.S., are whining because its not getting a free ride. As for borders, the U.N. established Israel's borders. Those borders do not include the West Bank.
2
"As for borders, the U.N. established Israel's borders. Those borders do not include the West Bank." Actually, the UN did not establish Israel's borders. The 1967 lines were cease-fire lines, set in 1949. It was stated, at the time, that they were not to be considered permanent borders. Negotiations based on the 67 lines make sense. A blanket withdrawal to them does not.
1
No, there are no formal borders, only armistice lines. Howard, do your homework. Plus, study the 3 major international conferences/legalities setting up the entire mandated Palestine, minus what Britain illegally took to create Transjordan (75% of the original mandated Palestine), for a Jewish Homeland. Not an Arab homeland. The attempt in 1947 to partition, pathetically, was refused by the Arabs of Palestine and all the Arab states. So legally, the argument goes the West bank may still belong to the Jewish people. Minus the 40% awarded the PA during the Oslo Accords, which has been accepted by some legal scholars, including Dr. Kontorovich, as international law. But if they stupidly negate the Oslo agreements, to whom does that 40% then belong? Remember, the land captured in 67 never "belonged" to an Arab Palestine, and certainly not to Jordan. Get the facts.
1
Yes, truth in labeling is just so unfair -- at least it is if the seller is trying to hide something.
22
Needless to say, from the day of its birth Israel has been surrounded by a
de facto ghetto of Arab states. Instead of resolving the issue, which in itself
has little to do with settlements, this will only continue to exacerbate it.
de facto ghetto of Arab states. Instead of resolving the issue, which in itself
has little to do with settlements, this will only continue to exacerbate it.
8
Well, let's see. Time will tell (as it did in South Africa).
1
For millenium States and people have tried to eliminate the Jews from territories, nations, cities and the planet.
Trading land won in a defensive war of annihilation with Jordan for no firm peace treaty is suicidal for Israel (think Gaza, think Sinai).
Pardon the Jews for being a bit sensitive on this issue of trading land won defensively without an ironclad peace treaty. Jews know, it's better to be isolated and ghettoized than dead.
Trading land won in a defensive war of annihilation with Jordan for no firm peace treaty is suicidal for Israel (think Gaza, think Sinai).
Pardon the Jews for being a bit sensitive on this issue of trading land won defensively without an ironclad peace treaty. Jews know, it's better to be isolated and ghettoized than dead.
15
It is immoral to invoke jewish history (as the Holocaust so often and so repugnantly is) to justify Israel's misdeeds. In fact, Jewish history should have the opposite imperative: It should compel jews and everyone else to be super sensitive to the plight of oppressed and brutalized people everywhere, including the Palestinians.
1
You are right, but it takes two to tango. You, and those of similar mind, would have more credibility if you were as clear about the failings of the Palestinians and what the world should expect from them as you are about what Israel should do.
1
Mr. Kontorich has seemed to have left out a key legal detail. Unlike the other disputed territories (e.g. Western Sahara), the EU has parallel Association Agreements with both Israel and the PLO/PA. Essentially, it is the only case where the EU has a trade agreement with both disputing parties where both entities claim the land. This has huge implications for the Rules of Origin clauses, as the settlements are basically getting the benefits of FTA with Israel, while operating within the boundaries of FTA with the PLA/PO.
Indeed this is an instance where the EU is trying to reapply consistency and adhere to its own trade laws.
Indeed this is an instance where the EU is trying to reapply consistency and adhere to its own trade laws.
92
Dead WRONG.
Products from Jewish communities beyond the green line have NOT been "getting the benefits of FTA" since 2001!
The comment is based on a false allegation. Perhaps the NYT should verify the central "fact" of a comment before rewarding it as a "Pick".
Products from Jewish communities beyond the green line have NOT been "getting the benefits of FTA" since 2001!
The comment is based on a false allegation. Perhaps the NYT should verify the central "fact" of a comment before rewarding it as a "Pick".
2
"[A] conscious process of building a legal ghetto around Israel"
Rhetoric like this--any criticism of Israeli policy must be anti-Semitic or anti-Israel--is over the top, insulting to the rationally minded and antithetical to rational debate.
This labeling does NOTHING to affect any businesses in Israel or by Israelis. Rather than "build a ghetto around Israel", it confirms that Israel is accorded the same respect and protection as any other nation.
Israel's settlements in, and de facto annexation of, Palestinian land--on the other hand--violate UN resolutions and are illegal under international law. Of course there is a political dimension to this decision, just as there is in labeling conflict or blood diamonds. But it is also narrowly tailored to only labeling (not boycott) and only goods from occupied land (not from Israel).
The reference to Morocco is a red herring. Israel cannot be criticized for violations of international law unless and until every single other nation is held to account first?!? That does not seek equal treatment, it seeks preferred treatment and carte blanche to continue violations of law so long as Israel can point to a worse actor out there. Even assuming Hamas or Hezbollah terrorism and atrocities can excuse retaliatory Israeli violations of international law and lesser atrocities--open to debate--the reference to Morocco is a complete non-sequitor, akin to a murderer claiming immunity because a serial killer at large.
Rhetoric like this--any criticism of Israeli policy must be anti-Semitic or anti-Israel--is over the top, insulting to the rationally minded and antithetical to rational debate.
This labeling does NOTHING to affect any businesses in Israel or by Israelis. Rather than "build a ghetto around Israel", it confirms that Israel is accorded the same respect and protection as any other nation.
Israel's settlements in, and de facto annexation of, Palestinian land--on the other hand--violate UN resolutions and are illegal under international law. Of course there is a political dimension to this decision, just as there is in labeling conflict or blood diamonds. But it is also narrowly tailored to only labeling (not boycott) and only goods from occupied land (not from Israel).
The reference to Morocco is a red herring. Israel cannot be criticized for violations of international law unless and until every single other nation is held to account first?!? That does not seek equal treatment, it seeks preferred treatment and carte blanche to continue violations of law so long as Israel can point to a worse actor out there. Even assuming Hamas or Hezbollah terrorism and atrocities can excuse retaliatory Israeli violations of international law and lesser atrocities--open to debate--the reference to Morocco is a complete non-sequitor, akin to a murderer claiming immunity because a serial killer at large.
22
The reference to Morocco is certainly valid, and the analogy to serial killers is deeply flawed and illogical. Israel is not requesting immunity for a violation of a law. It is saying that if a law is violated punishment must be applied equally or not at all.
Pn'HW's real antisemitism comes to the fore when he/she deplores Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism.
Pn'HW's real antisemitism comes to the fore when he/she deplores Israel's right to defend itself against terrorism.
3
"what the European Union sees as Israel’s occupation of territory"
How disingenuous. It IS occupation, illegal occupation.
Of course, if these products are not labelled separately, people who want to express their disapproval of Israel's colonialism can simply boycott ALL Israeli products. Would the author prefer that?
How disingenuous. It IS occupation, illegal occupation.
Of course, if these products are not labelled separately, people who want to express their disapproval of Israel's colonialism can simply boycott ALL Israeli products. Would the author prefer that?
35
"people who want to express their disapproval of Israel's colonialism" I suspect that people who feel like that don't buy Israeli products now.
1
Israel is guilty of mis-labeling, regardless of the author's cynical spin.
If Morocco is also guilty, then the author should complain to Morocco. However, he should also note that the United States does not supply billions of our tax dollars to enable and secure the Moroccan fraud.
If Morocco is also guilty, then the author should complain to Morocco. However, he should also note that the United States does not supply billions of our tax dollars to enable and secure the Moroccan fraud.
22
No. If Morocco is guilty the EU should take the exact same steps against Morocco as it did against Israel. That's the point.
3
Labeling the origins of products is an act of sovereignty, and violates no laws. Europeans are sick and tired of Israel's brutality and mistreatment of the Palestinians, as are many americans, including many jewish american., and we are glad to see the Europeans take a stand> And it is never an acceptible methodology to try to divert attention from Israel's misdeeds by saying others do the same thing, or worse. European governments rightly and justifiably are concerned with the plight of the palestinians because many of their citizens are concerned. Finally, it is laughable to write that the labeling "reduces Israel's incentives to take International law seriously" about a country which, prior to labeling, routinely and brutally flouts international law and plainly acts as if it were above the law. Good, albeit in small measure, that Europeans are attempting to impose accountability for Israel's misbehavior; would that america would also act accordingly.
26
And just who is the EU harming? 62% of workers in 890 Jewish factories now targeted in EU labeling are in fact Palestinian Arabs. Many will lose their jobs. When the EU targeted SodaStream and forced it to close its factory in the West Bank, hundreds of Palestinian Arabs lost their jobs. Those jobs paid six times the salary of the average WB Arab. The same will happen now.
The no. 1 myth is the labeling of “settlements” as the primary obstacle to peace. The true barrier is the same one it has always been: the so-called “right of return” – and the Palestinian’s refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people. The Arabs waged war on Israel/Jews DECADES BEFORE there was a single “settlement”. Before 1967. Before 1948. How does the EU explain away that????
The no. 1 myth is the labeling of “settlements” as the primary obstacle to peace. The true barrier is the same one it has always been: the so-called “right of return” – and the Palestinian’s refusal to recognize Israel’s right to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people. The Arabs waged war on Israel/Jews DECADES BEFORE there was a single “settlement”. Before 1967. Before 1948. How does the EU explain away that????
16
And how many Palestinian Arabs do you think have lost their livelihoods during the past 48 years as a result of Israel appropriating their land, building a wall between a village and its farmland, burning groves of olive trees, creating a system of checkpoints which makes it extremely difficult and time consuming to travel from home to workplace, etc etc etc. Wild guess: many more than the number of people employed in the Sodastream and other Israeli-owned factories. Your compassion is touching.
1
A piece of gallows humor that one occasionally hears in Israel runs like this: "The Occident will always want to see Jews living in a ghetto; therefore the West would always come to Israel's aid in an emergency".
The more or less recent shift of the West to anti-Israeli policies is undoubtedly a result of Nethanyahu's actions and rhetoric.
The more or less recent shift of the West to anti-Israeli policies is undoubtedly a result of Nethanyahu's actions and rhetoric.
3
That's astounding that after a century of illegal, brutal occupation of Palestinian territories, Israel and its lobbying machine continue to try to sell us the idea that they have been the victims. Instead of hiring media guns, why don't they show some good will and, for example, stop unconditionally all illegal new settlements?
34
A century? You're at Yale? I suggest that you enroll in a remedial math class.
4
A century? Last I checked the modern state of Israel was not even 100 yet and so called Palestinian territories didn't exist until 1967.
2
Israel and the U.S.A. have blocked every attempt by the U.N. to castigate the genocide perpetrated by Israel in Gaza and the West Bank. Here again they are attempting to interfere with what the rest of the world feels is a just way to solve this problem. I wont buy anything made in Israel as a protest. This is the only way I can express my disapproval.
26
If Kontorovich wants to avoid politicizing the system why doesn't he urge Israel to withdraw from the West Bank? He takes refuge in legal quibbles.
38
Next time a "pro-Palestinian" invokes "international law" may I dismiss their argument as a "legal quibble".
2
The author claims that these actions by the EU reduce Israel's incentives to take international law seriously. The fact is that it's something they haven't done for a long time.
22
"The fact is that it's something they haven't done for a long time."
Actually Israel has NEVER lived up to the UN resolution 181 that somehow (very questionably) ceded 56% of someone else`s land to be a homeland for Jews BUT not at the expense of the indigenous people (45% of which were Palestinians) living within the borders of the 56%. Yet by the end of 1948 the Zionist militias had illegally ethnically cleansed 425 villages & 12 urban centers of their indigenous people and annexed half of the 44% of Palestine that UN Res 181 allocated to be Palestine.
The rational world sees and understands who are the foreigners , colonists , land stealers , ethnic cleansers & brutal occupiers vs who are the indigenous people of Palestine who have been forced from their land or live gasping for life under the Zionist boot.
Actually Israel has NEVER lived up to the UN resolution 181 that somehow (very questionably) ceded 56% of someone else`s land to be a homeland for Jews BUT not at the expense of the indigenous people (45% of which were Palestinians) living within the borders of the 56%. Yet by the end of 1948 the Zionist militias had illegally ethnically cleansed 425 villages & 12 urban centers of their indigenous people and annexed half of the 44% of Palestine that UN Res 181 allocated to be Palestine.
The rational world sees and understands who are the foreigners , colonists , land stealers , ethnic cleansers & brutal occupiers vs who are the indigenous people of Palestine who have been forced from their land or live gasping for life under the Zionist boot.
Israel already benefits from preferential treatment for its goods under the EU-Israel Association agreement. Is that anti-Semitic on the EU's part? No. The Israelis are just angry that they can't have the same deal for goods produced under their Occupation. The fact that they are conducting this full-court press against the labeling leads me to believe that they care nothing about world opinion (which is now focussed more than ever on the issue), but very much about the money—despite claims that it's a pittance.
21
Israel cannot have it both ways. It never hesitates to refer to its "special relationship" with the West, to claim that it shares our values, to trumpet itself as the "only democracy" in the Middle East, etc., etc. But, when challenged, it falls back on arguments saying, essentially, "we're no worse than Turkey or Morocco".
Well, which is it? If you are a "special friend" of the US, then there is nothing wrong with holding you to a higher set of standards. If you are "no worse than Turkey or Morocco," that's fine, too - just don't expect me to go out of my way to help you.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if, instead of resorting to convoluted, legalistic excuses such as this, Israel would just simply acknowledge its wrongs and do something about them? Wouldn't that, in the end, require so much less energy and result in so much more happiness? Does denial ever work? Please, rather than telling me how you're, you know, really not that bad, why don't you just either get out of the occupied territories, or annex them and give the people who live there full rights? Either one would be fine! But to keep millions of people in a semi-legal state, while you simultaneously give others privileges - roads, resources, protection - based solely on their religion - I'm sorry, there just is no way to talk yourselves out of that. It is wrong. Either fix it, or expect to be criticized.
Well, which is it? If you are a "special friend" of the US, then there is nothing wrong with holding you to a higher set of standards. If you are "no worse than Turkey or Morocco," that's fine, too - just don't expect me to go out of my way to help you.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if, instead of resorting to convoluted, legalistic excuses such as this, Israel would just simply acknowledge its wrongs and do something about them? Wouldn't that, in the end, require so much less energy and result in so much more happiness? Does denial ever work? Please, rather than telling me how you're, you know, really not that bad, why don't you just either get out of the occupied territories, or annex them and give the people who live there full rights? Either one would be fine! But to keep millions of people in a semi-legal state, while you simultaneously give others privileges - roads, resources, protection - based solely on their religion - I'm sorry, there just is no way to talk yourselves out of that. It is wrong. Either fix it, or expect to be criticized.
41
Kosovo is Serbia.
So much easier just to get out? Israel did get out, in Gaza, in 2004 and look what that got them? Can you explain why in 1999, when Ehud Barak offered 97%+ of the West Bank and Gaza, Yasir Arafat refused?
2
Brave europe
20
Being anti-settlement is not anti-Israel. Israel's settlement policy, driven by right wing and ultra-orthodox political forces, is the biggest obstacle to peace.
43
... and a great danger for Israel itself. Israel should resolve its settlement issues for its own sake.
Here's the US state department's definition of anti-semitism with regard to Israel, paraphrasing: don't attempt to de-legitimize or demonize Israel and don't hold it to a double standard, and I'd add don't lie about the facts on the ground. Hold to those reasonable parameters and it's unlikely you will be called an antes mite.
2
and the settlement are legal??
29
I'm not sure that a supporter of a government that so regularly thumbs its nose at the international rule of law has any ground to declare another country's actions illegal, especially when referring to something as benign as product labeling. I would argue that this offense is slightly less egregious than the mass detention of 4 million Palestinians.
40
Israel doesn't abide by any UN resolution or international norm. So even if EU is wrong, Israel deserves the mislabeling.
28
Sounds like Islamic, European, and other varieties of anti-Semitism are at work here.
A Jewish friend of mine vacationed in France not long ago. Her uncle had told her, "Go while you still can." What a tragedy. That's an amazing country for which I have huge affection but what an unsettling trend to have to think about. We have our own equally scary trends right here. Yikes.
A Jewish friend of mine vacationed in France not long ago. Her uncle had told her, "Go while you still can." What a tragedy. That's an amazing country for which I have huge affection but what an unsettling trend to have to think about. We have our own equally scary trends right here. Yikes.
14
There are fifty times more Muslim attacks in France than there are attacks on Jews. There is an entire political party, the National Front, that is outright racist toward French Arabs. No such discrimination exists in France against Jews. In fact, holocaust denial is even illegal in France.
France is fine.
France is fine.
1
Steve: Oh yes, every time the rest of the world criticizes Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinians and Israel's violation of every agreement they have ever made, UN Mandates and the rule of law, we are anti-Semitic. It has been several months since Israeli terrorists fire bombed a Palestinian home, killed both parents and a young child. Israel has yet to identify any suspects but when a Palestinian firebombed an Israeli home, a suspect was in jail within a week.
This isn't about the Jewish nature of Israel, it is about Israel's total disregard of international law and human rights. It is not anti-Semitic to condemn Israel for its violations of international law.
This isn't about the Jewish nature of Israel, it is about Israel's total disregard of international law and human rights. It is not anti-Semitic to condemn Israel for its violations of international law.
1
So don't go to France. What reader of the Times cares whether you do or not? This isn't abut France, it's abut Israel's misdeeds.
1
The "Palestinians" who work for Israeli companies make good money compared to the surrounding countries AND they don't pay taxes because they don't have their own state. Remember, Jordan gave them up when it lost the war in 1967 and has never once offered to reabsorb them. Neither did the other Arab countries. I am PROUD to buy any product that is made in Israel. The quality is good and the "poor Palestinians" have better paying jobs than they ever will in any Arab country. In fact, only in Israel are Arabs free.
31
Does this mean that you would trade your political rights for a better job?
1
You remind me of those elite ladies in Asia who say, regarding workers who work for pittance and struggle to make two ends meet, "These workers have it too good! Look at them wearing new shoes and all!" Your statement that "Only in Israel are Arabs free" is disturbing and disgusting. How did the US, supposedly the most powerful country in the world, become this stupid towards a small country like Israel, that relies heavily on American subsidies, in the Middle East. The only thing we have to worry about is that Israel might use its weapons on the US when we don't go along with everything they want. This deep seated psychology and possibility is what prompted some nut cases to claim that 9/11 itself was Israel's doing. Israel did not initiate 9/11, but Israel has lot of weapons, very sophisticated ones, to start a WW III, and even use it against the US just to provoke, push and patronize.
MetroJournalist: Your argument is the same as the argument in the South that the blacks were better off under slavery. The Palestinians would have a higher standard of living if Israel allowed them to have and autonomous state. B Ut since the objective of Israel is to have all for the West Bank and Gaza as a Jew only Israeli state, that is not gfoing to happen until the rest of the world puts economic pressure on Israel.
I guess the Israel never head of the old saw: "If you want a dog who attacks everyone, just beat it everyday."
I guess the Israel never head of the old saw: "If you want a dog who attacks everyone, just beat it everyday."
Those who are so anxious to boycott Israel and companies associated with them need to do some housecleaning.
Apple's largest R&D center outside the US is in Israel. Tim Cook recently visited not just to promote the expansion, but to celebrate the diversity in Israel. For example, Apple's international VP of hardware is an Israeli Arab who graduated from the Technion.
And throw out your PCs as well. Intel is Israel's largest private employer, employing 10,000 Israelis in R&D and production. Given the difference in population, it's equivalent to employing 400,000 in the US. If you want to hurt Israel via boycotts of companies that do business with Israel, don't buy anything with Intel inside.
And perhaps you think it's different with Microsoft, HP, Dell, etc? It's not, they all have major R&D and/or manufacturing facilities in Israel.
And be very careful with your drugs, Teva Pharmaceuticals (an Israeli company) is the world's largest manufacturer of generic drugs.
Apple's largest R&D center outside the US is in Israel. Tim Cook recently visited not just to promote the expansion, but to celebrate the diversity in Israel. For example, Apple's international VP of hardware is an Israeli Arab who graduated from the Technion.
And throw out your PCs as well. Intel is Israel's largest private employer, employing 10,000 Israelis in R&D and production. Given the difference in population, it's equivalent to employing 400,000 in the US. If you want to hurt Israel via boycotts of companies that do business with Israel, don't buy anything with Intel inside.
And perhaps you think it's different with Microsoft, HP, Dell, etc? It's not, they all have major R&D and/or manufacturing facilities in Israel.
And be very careful with your drugs, Teva Pharmaceuticals (an Israeli company) is the world's largest manufacturer of generic drugs.
23
Israel should thank American companies for providing jobs then. As far as this article is concerned, the point is labeling products made on stolen land in the West Bank.
Yes, there are far too many American companies embedded in Israel. This Israel- Corporate America-American Congress connection is what everyone worries about. Thanks for making that clear. Tim Cook is an American and he should be working for American interests with some global focus...not exclusively for Israel, even if he is diddling some Jewish gay man.
1
Apple should close all of those plants and research centers, and bring our jobs back instead of doing favors to Israel.
One effect of the labelling requirement is that Israeli companies will move operations to within the 1967 borders, which will result in loss of employment by many Palestinian Arabs.
16
Exact same argument was used by the apartheid regime of South Africa when threatened with sanctions and divestment. Please look up their narratives from 1986 and 1987.
Consumers should have a right to know where products are made. End of story. Is there a double standard when it comes to Morocco? Fine - the answer to that problem is not to let Israel off the hook, but rather, to hook Morocco as well. Start a list of countries that need to be more specific in their labeling.
BTW, pointing to another country and saying, "They do it to!" is a child's argument, and it is a big glowing red flag that a person either doesn't know how to form a logical argument or simply doesn't have one.
BTW, pointing to another country and saying, "They do it to!" is a child's argument, and it is a big glowing red flag that a person either doesn't know how to form a logical argument or simply doesn't have one.
38
I assume the author also opposes the trade sanctions imposed on Russia for it occupation of the Crimea and for its support for Ukrainian separatists. Clearly the EU is even more anti-Russian than anti-Semitic and clearly failing to impose sanctions on all nations occupying territory illegally under international law.
14
The EU isn't "anti-Russian". They just don't think that invasions are the correct way to "annex" new territory in the 21st century. These are hard lessons that have been observed inside the EU for the better part of the past 70 years.
This is especially true of areas either inside or immediately adjacent to the borders of EU member nations.
This is especially true of areas either inside or immediately adjacent to the borders of EU member nations.
Israel won the West Bank from Jordan in 1967, the Siani from Egypt in 1967 and the Golan Heights from Syria in 1967 in a defensive wa of annhilationr in which those and 5 other nations tried to exterminate the Jewish State granted by the United Nations in 1948.
Pardon Israel for being a little leery of returning any land without a peace treaty as per Egypt. The millennium of wars against Jews prior to the establishment of the Jewish State makes the Jews a bit concerned about their lives.
Pardon Israel for being a little leery of returning any land without a peace treaty as per Egypt. The millennium of wars against Jews prior to the establishment of the Jewish State makes the Jews a bit concerned about their lives.
18
Israel started every single war except 1973. Israel attacked egypt in 1967 as a preventative measure, even though Egypt was not planning to attack Israel. It is all out now, all declassified, all available for the world to see.
Further, it is illegal under international law to "win" territory through force: Article IV Geneva Conventions, 1949. Israel must give back any land it took through force, period.
Further, it is illegal under international law to "win" territory through force: Article IV Geneva Conventions, 1949. Israel must give back any land it took through force, period.
1
Then Israel should ANNEX the West Bank and give it's residents full Israeli citizenship. Or get out.
Having a large population of stateless people with virtually no political rights is good for Israel's economy. It provides cheap labor by people who have no legal way to bargain for better wages, benefits or working conditions. Israel's policies in the West Bank, nominally related to security, prevent Palestinians from creating any significant industry of their own. Would you lend money to anyone whose business could be destroyed by a foreign army without any political recourse? I wouldn't.
Having a large population of stateless people with virtually no political rights is good for Israel's economy. It provides cheap labor by people who have no legal way to bargain for better wages, benefits or working conditions. Israel's policies in the West Bank, nominally related to security, prevent Palestinians from creating any significant industry of their own. Would you lend money to anyone whose business could be destroyed by a foreign army without any political recourse? I wouldn't.
1
Professor Kontrovich once again gets it absolutely right. The EU has one rule for Israel and one rule for everyone else. Indeed, Gerard Araud, the French Ambassador to the United States has explicitly stated that this is not only the case, but that it is also positive. (Although he quickly removed the Tweet because he realized that it was not politic to say this). This discrimination, which I attribute jointly to antisemitism and the EU's guilt over its past colonial policies (the latter of which is misguided given that the Jews are not colonizers but are indigenous to the land), must end!
16
Oh come on, Washington coddles Israel more than American universities coddle their students! Any argument with a "poor Israel" tone is simply ridiculous. Israel thumbs its nose at any and all international agreements and accords, and even common sense.
31
Unfair and illegal is a characteristic of the settler movement not of clear product labeling.
26
The amount of doublespeak in this op-ed is remarkable: "Areas that came under [Israel's] control." (Military invasion of sovereign territory.) "Other occupiers ... such as Morocco or Turkey." (False equivalencies, to put it very mildly.) "...a conscious process of building a legal ghetto around Israel, within which a special set of rules applies." (As opposed to Israel's illegal ghettoes in East Jerusalem, well into Palestinian territory as defined by the 1967 armistice as well as international law.)
And then there's this gem: "[T]he W.T.O.’s protections apply not just to a country’s sovereign territory, but also to areas of its 'international responsibility,' such as occupied territories." This statement stretches the WTO's original intent of the phrase beyond any reasonable interpretation of it. Further, Mr. Kontorovich's subsequent comparison of Israel's present-day occupied territories to areas under U.S. control during World War II doesn't merely stretch the truth; it borders on sheer farce.
Last but not least: "Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously." This remark infers that Israel *is* taking international law seriously, which is false on its face. If it did, Israel would have fully acknowledged Palestine's existence, embraced a two-state solution, and demolished all of its "settlements" on Palestinian lands.
And then there's this gem: "[T]he W.T.O.’s protections apply not just to a country’s sovereign territory, but also to areas of its 'international responsibility,' such as occupied territories." This statement stretches the WTO's original intent of the phrase beyond any reasonable interpretation of it. Further, Mr. Kontorovich's subsequent comparison of Israel's present-day occupied territories to areas under U.S. control during World War II doesn't merely stretch the truth; it borders on sheer farce.
Last but not least: "Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously." This remark infers that Israel *is* taking international law seriously, which is false on its face. If it did, Israel would have fully acknowledged Palestine's existence, embraced a two-state solution, and demolished all of its "settlements" on Palestinian lands.
36
Well said. The professor is trying to convey the idea that Israel has clean hands and is simply being singled out because it is a powerful Jewish state with the full backing of the US. Who can take him seriously?
Jeff-
For someone with such strong opinions, you're incredibly ignorant. There was no "military invasion" of the West Bank in 67, Israel was attacked by Jordan - not the other way around. And the West Bank wasn't "sovereign territory" or anyone - it was illegally occupied by Jordan.
The West Bank and Jerusalem are not "Palestinian territories" in International Law. Jerusalem specifically is not Palestinian - or Israeli. The West Bank is still a territory in dispute, status subject to negotiation; and the 67 "border" is only an armistice line from 1948, and it is specifically agreed in the armistice that it ISN'T an international border. Part of the problem for the past 70 years is that the Arabs and Palestinians have refused to agree to an international border.
For someone with such strong opinions, you're incredibly ignorant. There was no "military invasion" of the West Bank in 67, Israel was attacked by Jordan - not the other way around. And the West Bank wasn't "sovereign territory" or anyone - it was illegally occupied by Jordan.
The West Bank and Jerusalem are not "Palestinian territories" in International Law. Jerusalem specifically is not Palestinian - or Israeli. The West Bank is still a territory in dispute, status subject to negotiation; and the 67 "border" is only an armistice line from 1948, and it is specifically agreed in the armistice that it ISN'T an international border. Part of the problem for the past 70 years is that the Arabs and Palestinians have refused to agree to an international border.
3
Hey, let's make a deal.
Europe withdraws its "illegal" labeling laws and Israel withdraws its illegal settlements in the West Bank. What a step forward for humanity!
Europe withdraws its "illegal" labeling laws and Israel withdraws its illegal settlements in the West Bank. What a step forward for humanity!
34
Investing in the settlements is illegal as well as the occupation. How funny to cry about the very law as one breaks it
14
Saying you don't want to economically support Israeli settlements is completely legitimate, and I don't see any reason why consumers can't be made aware that their products are produced in one.
Labeling something as made in Israel when it was made in a settlement implies that the settlements are part of Israel proper, which they are not. If Israel wants to formally and finally annex the west bank and gaza, then those products will be made in Israel. Until then, they are made in occupied territories, and consumers have a right to know this.
Labeling something as made in Israel when it was made in a settlement implies that the settlements are part of Israel proper, which they are not. If Israel wants to formally and finally annex the west bank and gaza, then those products will be made in Israel. Until then, they are made in occupied territories, and consumers have a right to know this.
149
If the intent of the law is to ultimately make the life of the Palestinian in the "occupied territory" better, then this law will have the opposite effect. If the law leads to reduced demand for the goods, then the producer will move the factory into pre 1967 Israel and all the Palestinians working in the factory will lose their jobs.
2
Well, Israel formally annexed East Jerusalem in 1967 and the Golan in 1982. But the EU says the rules apply to both those areas - as well as Gaza - where there aren't any Israelis.
2
Ben, you wrote "If Israel wants to formally and finally annex the west bank and gaza, then those products will be made in Israel. Until then, they are made in occupied territories, and consumers have a right to know this."
This is not true. Israel has formally annexed East Jerusalem, but goods made in East Jerusalem are to be labeled under this new rule.
This is not true. Israel has formally annexed East Jerusalem, but goods made in East Jerusalem are to be labeled under this new rule.
2
It is hard for the American consumer to identify produce imported from Israel as the "product of Israel" statement is often so tiny and hidden that one must search for it. The labeling is so miniscule it is as though Israel does not want to advertise. A display of boxed clementines had a large sign stating the product was from Spain, but in tiniest print on the boxes identified Israel as the country of origin. Same happened with dates, the packaging led the consumer to believe the fruit was from some Middle Eastern or North African country. I started to read labels after having read that certain countries use DDT. Country of origin should be clearly marked so consumers can make an informed choice.
10
So sue...as it is now more people have become aware of how the Israeli economy in its Occupied Territories operates than would have ever learned of it from inadvertently buying the products.
5
Not sure why this is an issue at all. Just because you formulate a special solution to one single country (Israel) in order to hurt it economically doesn't make you a Jew hater. How can anyone call the European Union anti-semitic?
Jews have always had a safe and secure home in Europe. No reason to think that will ever change. Europe just wishes to point out that Jews are making things--isn't that great?
Jews were welcome in Spain during the inquisition and their right to practice their religion and pursue whatever professions they chose was always beyond question. Later, during the World Wars, Jews were treated well and never singled out for any special punishment. Europe and it's antecedents have a strong and unassailable record when it comes to the Jewish people.
So, I am sure this tempest in a teapot will blow over soon.
Jews have always had a safe and secure home in Europe. No reason to think that will ever change. Europe just wishes to point out that Jews are making things--isn't that great?
Jews were welcome in Spain during the inquisition and their right to practice their religion and pursue whatever professions they chose was always beyond question. Later, during the World Wars, Jews were treated well and never singled out for any special punishment. Europe and it's antecedents have a strong and unassailable record when it comes to the Jewish people.
So, I am sure this tempest in a teapot will blow over soon.
7
Ah yes. And Europe is a present day center of anti-Semitic behavior and violence.
3
I would argue that labeling doesn't go far enough! These goods should be sanctioned and banned! Stop with the whining Israel, you did this to yourself.
10
If they do this and I will boycott the products of any nation which participates in this effort.
Believe it or not settlers actually paid for the lands the they occupy. What's wrong with a person of one nationality owning property in another country? We don't see people from all over the world with holdings and businesses in New York?
As far as the settlers go, where they legally acquired their properties, if peace comes to the region, and they find themselves on the Palestinian side of the border they'll be Palestinians, Jewish Palestinians who will enjoy all of the rights and privileges and obligations usually accorded to all citizens of the State of Palestine. This should be policed by an armed multi-national UN force until everyone gets the message. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
Settlers, enjoy!
Believe it or not settlers actually paid for the lands the they occupy. What's wrong with a person of one nationality owning property in another country? We don't see people from all over the world with holdings and businesses in New York?
As far as the settlers go, where they legally acquired their properties, if peace comes to the region, and they find themselves on the Palestinian side of the border they'll be Palestinians, Jewish Palestinians who will enjoy all of the rights and privileges and obligations usually accorded to all citizens of the State of Palestine. This should be policed by an armed multi-national UN force until everyone gets the message. Israel has Arabs, Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.
Settlers, enjoy!
9
Don't hold your breath waiting for the hypocrites at the EU to require that products be labelled "Made in Tibet".
11
Or the U.N. to accept Taiwan as a nation.
9
Nor will we hold our breath for hypocrites to admit that there are no stateless people in Tibet, they are all citizens of China.
2
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously"
Ha ha ha. Good joke.
Ha ha ha. Good joke.
11
This simply illustrates that Jews are required to maintain a higher standard than gentiles. Endemic antisemitism.
11
Really Comparing Israel with Morocco and Turkey. Say what you will the people in the occupied territories in Morocco and Turkey are not discriminated against. A Large part of the people want to remain part of these countries. Turkey is not actively suppressing the Turks living in Cyprus. The difference is Israel is actively suppressing and continues to suppress Palestinians. Also thee invite people from all over the world to come and settle down in occupied territories instead of settling them within the recognized borders of Israel. also it is actively suppressing the Palestinian population in Jerusalem by forcing then to vacates their houses and not giving them permits to build any new structures. Also they destroy the house of Palestinians activists involved in terrorism, while they do not destroy the house of Israeli citizens involved in terrorism. Also Palestinian attacking any Israeli is always shot and mostly killed, while an Israeli attacking Palestinians is mostly captured. I am not saying that they are deliberately killing Palestinians, but they are quick on the trigger as far as Palestinians are concerned.
3
What nonsense. The people of Western Sahara have been valiantly struggling for freedom from Morocco since 1975. Moroccan policies have been horrifying, including ethnic cleansing. I oppose the Israeli occupation, but your comment simply supports the right-wing author of the article by its hypocritical justification of brutal occupations like that of Morocco in Western Sahara.
3
I suggest you don't tell the people in the Spanish Sahara who don't want anything to do with Morocco about the decision you just made for them. And btw, maybe you should take down the "separation wall" the Mororoccans built there....
Yeah, those Israelis are quick on the trigger - when a Palestinian is running at them brandishing a knife....
Yeah, those Israelis are quick on the trigger - when a Palestinian is running at them brandishing a knife....
2
An apologist for illegal occupation appealing to WTO legalisms. Just when you think you've read every contorted justification and defense, along comes another.
11
What does this action achieve? It achieves only one thing. It contributes to the loss of well paying jobs for Palestinians who once a Jewish business leaves do not have jobs to replace them.
Further it attempts to hitch a ride on the idea that the green line is the final border that defines the two state solution. Nonsense.
This is a hollow victory for anti-semites and does nothing to move a two state solution any closer to reality.
Further it attempts to hitch a ride on the idea that the green line is the final border that defines the two state solution. Nonsense.
This is a hollow victory for anti-semites and does nothing to move a two state solution any closer to reality.
7
Does it mean that the goods made in California, New Mexico, Texas etc. also have to be marked the same way? After all we occupied these lands during Mexican war?
How about the goods made in Crimea, occupied by Russia? Nah, they want dare to anger neither us nor Russians.
How about the goods made in Crimea, occupied by Russia? Nah, they want dare to anger neither us nor Russians.
5
Those lands are internationally recognized as part of the United States. That is not the case with Israeli settlements in the West Bank.
1
This is just a series of examples of false equivalencies.
1
Sad for Northwestern that this is the best argument one of their law profs can put forward, namely that since Morocco does similar with impunity in Western Sahara, Israel should be afforded the same impunity for its actions in the West Bank / occupied territories / territories / settlements. Surely the NYT could have found someone to pen a more compelling case.
11
The comments seem to disregard the historical fact that when the Jordan captured the West Bank it was capturing land recognized by much of the world as belonging to the newly created state of Israel. Although not formally recognized by the UN until it had lost this part of its state, Israel had been recognized by multiple countries immediately following the expiration of the British mandate. Recognition of Jordanian sovereignty of the West Bank was limited to a few third world dictatorships and Jordan formally abandoned their claim in their peace deal with Israel. The UN has never recognized any borders for Israel, leading to the seemingly reasonable concern that when the PA and Hamas make clear that their goal is all of Israel and the EU gives direct financial aid to terrorists it is possible that Israel must act always in self defense. Israel has repeatedly offered to give the West Bank to the PA, this was described recently by Friedman, but there has been no desire from the PA to end the conflict. There is no way forward when the world seems bent on the total destruction of Israel.
11
This comment is simply false. No country has ever recognized Israeli claims over the West Bank. Not one. Ever. In fact, except for East Jerusalem, Israel has itself never formally claimed sovereignty over the West Bank! You need to study the basic history here. Your claims are laughable.
3
When did truth become illegal?
10
If one checks the incidents where public protesters in Muslim countries chant "death to America", she will notice that these chants are most of the time coupled with the chant "death to Israel". Given the US implicit assistance in Israel's occupation (and i have the UN veto in mind, that the US exercises for the protection of Israel), it is not very difficult to realize that the anti-American feeling expressed in the chants "death to the US" in Muslim countries arises mainly (though not exclusively) due to this assistance of the US to the Israeli occupation -- hence the mixture of chants that call for death to *both* Israel and the US.
Should the EU follow suit, and behave towards Israel like America? That is, should the EU lose whatever leverage it can have in the Muslim world by alienating the vast majority of Muslims through a tacit acceptance of the Israeli occupation? If the EU chooses to appease both its own Muslim populations and every progressive European who opposes the Israeli occupation, should this be considered wrong?
My questions are obviously rhetoric:the EU behaves permissibly. It is the US that behaves impermissibly -- and also imprudently, given the hostility to America that US policy towards Israel engenders in the Muslim world. Alienating billions of Muslims in the name of protecting the Israeli occupation is not the smartest thing to do.
Good for the EU that it does not make the same mistake with the US.
Should the EU follow suit, and behave towards Israel like America? That is, should the EU lose whatever leverage it can have in the Muslim world by alienating the vast majority of Muslims through a tacit acceptance of the Israeli occupation? If the EU chooses to appease both its own Muslim populations and every progressive European who opposes the Israeli occupation, should this be considered wrong?
My questions are obviously rhetoric:the EU behaves permissibly. It is the US that behaves impermissibly -- and also imprudently, given the hostility to America that US policy towards Israel engenders in the Muslim world. Alienating billions of Muslims in the name of protecting the Israeli occupation is not the smartest thing to do.
Good for the EU that it does not make the same mistake with the US.
6
Naive in the extreme. If Israel disappears tomorrow, they will still chant "Death to America" in the Muslim world.
2
No, my thesis is not naive at all. I said that the main reason that the US is hated throughout the Muslim world is that it helps the Israeli occupation. This is a thesis that has been expressed by General Petraeus in the past ("[the] conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of US favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of US partnerships with governments and peoples...", so said Petraeus), and i just made it more vivid by pointing out that the chants "death to US" are most of the time accompanied by chants "death to Israel", and that this overlap of chants points to a causal relationship in it. Plus, Kerry has said that all the "there wasn’t a leader I met with in the region who didn’t raise with me spontaneously the need to try to get peace between Israel and the Palestinians, because it was a cause of recruitment and of street anger and agitation that they felt...". That is, Kerry sees the non-resolution of the conflict as a breeding ground for terrorism.
You cannot merely assert that you know that the Muslim world won''t appreciate it if the US ceases to support the US occupation and pressures Israel to return to the 1967 lines. It is not my point that is naive. It is yours that is presumptuous -- without a shred of evidence.
You cannot merely assert that you know that the Muslim world won''t appreciate it if the US ceases to support the US occupation and pressures Israel to return to the 1967 lines. It is not my point that is naive. It is yours that is presumptuous -- without a shred of evidence.
1
Within broad constraints, Europe can label Israeli products and even refuse to consider products produced in territories not recognized internationally as Israeli pretty much any way they want.
Clearly, the recent ruling, which is an enforcement action and not anything really new as regulation, is an attempt by Europe to set up an opportunity for private interests to demonize Israel’s settlement policy, which just as clearly reserves to Israel dominion over all lands between the Med and the Jordan River – Judea and Samaria. Coincidentally, that includes all land that was ever set aside for an independent Palestinian state.
But just as clearly, Europe has little other option to facilitate pressure on Israel to change its settlement policies and to pursue a two-state solution: that pressure would be felt if the salability of products produced in settlement territories were to suffer as political protest.
The Moroccan controversy hardly rises to global attention as the Palestinian one does; but I’d expect that Europe now will be forced to reconsider it, making consistent the enforcement of its labeling policies over Moroccan goods just as it’s done over Israeli goods – and not the other way around.
Israel understandably wishes not to be held accountable for its settlement policies. However, increasingly, it will be called to account within important markets and it will simply need to assess how much those policies are likely to cost against how much they’re likely to gain.
Clearly, the recent ruling, which is an enforcement action and not anything really new as regulation, is an attempt by Europe to set up an opportunity for private interests to demonize Israel’s settlement policy, which just as clearly reserves to Israel dominion over all lands between the Med and the Jordan River – Judea and Samaria. Coincidentally, that includes all land that was ever set aside for an independent Palestinian state.
But just as clearly, Europe has little other option to facilitate pressure on Israel to change its settlement policies and to pursue a two-state solution: that pressure would be felt if the salability of products produced in settlement territories were to suffer as political protest.
The Moroccan controversy hardly rises to global attention as the Palestinian one does; but I’d expect that Europe now will be forced to reconsider it, making consistent the enforcement of its labeling policies over Moroccan goods just as it’s done over Israeli goods – and not the other way around.
Israel understandably wishes not to be held accountable for its settlement policies. However, increasingly, it will be called to account within important markets and it will simply need to assess how much those policies are likely to cost against how much they’re likely to gain.
64
Anything that reminds both parties that an eventual settlement cannot be escaped is worthwhile to undertake by the international community. Obviously, negotiations by themselves do not seem to work.
5
What surprises me about this editorial is how much Europe has done to address Israeli injustice and illegal, deadly, actions towards Palestinians: a ban on spending money on Israeli projects in the West Bank, a restriction on agricultural imports, and warnings of more actions to come I can't remember seeing news about any of these measures in the American press.
If what Israel is doing is incredibly unjust, and it is, then it is aided and abetted by the US. Unless we withdraw support, we are culpable.
If what Israel is doing is incredibly unjust, and it is, then it is aided and abetted by the US. Unless we withdraw support, we are culpable.
21
How much has Europe done to address Palestinian and Arab "injustice and illegal, deadly, actions towards" Israelis and to their own people?
3
What surprises ME is how little Europe has done to address or even note the tacit Arab endorsement of Palestinian suffering as a convenient distraction for their own human rights abuses. What doesn't surprise me, but does disappoint me, is how both Europeans and Americans continue to ignore the hypocrisy and anti-Semitism inherent in the double standard that condemns Israel for the same policies that Europe vigorously defends on behalf of Israel's neighbors, and those by which Europe itself has benefited even up to today.
4
There is an easy solution. Label all products made in occupied territories regardless of which country occupies them.
44
Considering how most everything sold in made by multi-national corporations, there aren't to many things left made anymore that aren't made in some fashion in "occupied territories" they've exploited outside their corporate nation.
But who gets to decide which places are occupied? Many the nations doing the occupying are the ones siting at the table making the decisions. Made in occupied Catalan, made in occupied Northern Ireland, made in the occupied Basque region....made in occupied Tibet and so on.
As would be expected in comments in any New York Times article mentioning Israel, absolutely no attention is paid to the simple, straightforward, logical and legal arguments made by Prof. Kontorovich.
Israel is involved? Then any actions taken against it are justified. Even if the same standards are not applied to Morocco in Western Sahara, or Turkey in North Cyprus, etc etc etc as long as you are vilifying Israel, it's all good.
Israel is involved? Then any actions taken against it are justified. Even if the same standards are not applied to Morocco in Western Sahara, or Turkey in North Cyprus, etc etc etc as long as you are vilifying Israel, it's all good.
11
Then you should join me in calling for the EU in applying this policy to all cases of occupation, such as Morocco in Western Sahara.
3
The problem with Professor Kontorovich's argument is that there a huge difference between the Israeli occupation of territory conquered in wars and the other examples he sites. The dispute over the Israeli Occupied Territories has been going on for decades: the slightest provocation by Israel or the Palestinians leads to immediate conflict, affecting not only the Middle East but the entire world.
The labeling of goods made in the Occupied Territories is just one such provocation. It tries to create a fair accompli were there is none; no international body has agreed to accept these territories as a part of Israel.
After years of negotiations, many in the international community are tired of trying to reason with Israel, so it is no wonder that certain groups are using pressure of a different kind to attempt to influence world opinion. If it takes a boycott rather than more bloodshed to solve the problem, why not?
The labeling of goods made in the Occupied Territories is just one such provocation. It tries to create a fair accompli were there is none; no international body has agreed to accept these territories as a part of Israel.
After years of negotiations, many in the international community are tired of trying to reason with Israel, so it is no wonder that certain groups are using pressure of a different kind to attempt to influence world opinion. If it takes a boycott rather than more bloodshed to solve the problem, why not?
18
Israel is tired of "trying to reason" with the Palestinians.
4
There's not one word in your post that would justify applying this policy to Israel and not to Morocco. I would favor applying this policy uniformly. Not one argument has been proposed against this.
1
You raise an excellent point. In stead of debating this idiots are turning this issue into another anti-Semitism crusade. This law professor on this op-ed forgets that EU does not consider Turkey and Morocco to be very high on human rights. Though Turkey first began formal talks to join the European Union in 2005, little progress on its accession has been made because of certain issues concerning human rights or lack of democracy. Does the authors of this op-ed want Israel to be given the same status as Morocco and Turkey? These professors are shooting themselves in the foot by making a dumb argument that is both circular and contradictory.
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously."
The U.S. has been making special rules for Israel for years with exactly this effect.
The U.S. has been making special rules for Israel for years with exactly this effect.
32
This op-ed is perfectly written. There's no reasonable debate to be had with the main point, that the European Commission is being inconsistent and clearly politicized. This is evidenced by the indisputable fact that Israel is not the only country to have or have had settlements/occupation. We have Morocco with Western Sahara, China with Tibet, Russia with Crimea (close enough), etc. But only Israel is targeted. You couldn't get a more clear example of inconsistent standards, which as any law professor will tell you (as the writer does), severely undermines the law itself (by being taken less seriously).
Whether or not Israeli settlements are wrong isn't the point of this article, as I hope many realize.
Whether or not Israeli settlements are wrong isn't the point of this article, as I hope many realize.
26
The injustice of the settlements is exactly the point which this article is rebutting, albeit with some pretty irrelevant arguments. I hope you realize this.
Wonderful attack the economy of the "West Bank" to halt any Israeli business or enterprise in the area. Soon enough the only thing the West Bank is going to be able to export is hatred rubble and stones.
13
It is as if I got a speeding ticket, and then, instead of dealing with my driving, I complained that the officer was an anti-Semite, because other speeders were not ticketed.
What the defenders of Israel need to do is to explain why Israeli settlement building in the West Bank is a good thing. To my knowledge, this has not been done.
Ad hominem complaints about Isreal's critics will not stop the criticism.
What the defenders of Israel need to do is to explain why Israeli settlement building in the West Bank is a good thing. To my knowledge, this has not been done.
Ad hominem complaints about Isreal's critics will not stop the criticism.
47
Victor, don't a good deal of African Americans complain about being singled out by police? Is that imaginary? Just asking.
2
Its not a black and white issue.
East Jerusalem has always had a jewish presence except between 1948 and 1967, and a jewish majority for many years. Jerusalem was divided for the first time as a result of the 948 war, in which neighboring Arab nations invaded the new State of Israel and attempted to capture the entire city, both east and west. This is not the only example, Masada, the Mount of Olives, Hebron, the Western Wall, are all areas that are in areas beyond the green line. The point is that any final border has to be negotiated
East Jerusalem has always had a jewish presence except between 1948 and 1967, and a jewish majority for many years. Jerusalem was divided for the first time as a result of the 948 war, in which neighboring Arab nations invaded the new State of Israel and attempted to capture the entire city, both east and west. This is not the only example, Masada, the Mount of Olives, Hebron, the Western Wall, are all areas that are in areas beyond the green line. The point is that any final border has to be negotiated
4
No. It is as if the police only pull over cars with stars of David on, them while ignoring all other cars. It is also as if they don't bother to pay too much attention to whether those cars they selectively pull over are actually violating the published regulations on speeding.
Apparently, it is further as if, these actions by the police having come to light, numerous people who otherwise couldn't care less about speeding come out of the woodwork to praise the police and claim that they can't see anything whatsoever wrong with what's happening.
Apparently, it is further as if, these actions by the police having come to light, numerous people who otherwise couldn't care less about speeding come out of the woodwork to praise the police and claim that they can't see anything whatsoever wrong with what's happening.
3
Israel has had a far too gentle Western reaction to its expansionist policies far too long for it to perceive it as actual endorsement and a go ahead policy.....which it vigorously did!
From day one of its implantation Israel did proceed unopposed, practically supported and encouraged, in the implementation of its expansionist designs when it annexed lands Not within its UNGA Partition of Palestine land allocation resolution , its sole quasi legitimization basis.
The West , the initiator of the said resolution, did absolutely nothing to oppose that and many within the J/C alliance, supported It if not in words then in deeds vowing to sustain this hors de loi land grab with the Trilateral Declaration which undertook to preserve the post expansion status .
The West has always been an accomplice of Israel in its relentless expansionist designs which led to no real opposition to the annexation of East Jerusalem, the Construction of Settlements and the other myriad forms of Arab land grab.
Later developments in the region led some to
reconsider and propose 1967 borders as the final Israeli borders.
That led to a very faint mode of opposition deliberately designed NOT to deter Israel from proceeding with its expansionist plans for the West Bank .
Measures presently under consideration including the Labelling scheme will NOT deter Israel from pursuing a plan attained and agreed with the Western Judo/Christian alliance and implemented with the alliance full support!
full support
From day one of its implantation Israel did proceed unopposed, practically supported and encouraged, in the implementation of its expansionist designs when it annexed lands Not within its UNGA Partition of Palestine land allocation resolution , its sole quasi legitimization basis.
The West , the initiator of the said resolution, did absolutely nothing to oppose that and many within the J/C alliance, supported It if not in words then in deeds vowing to sustain this hors de loi land grab with the Trilateral Declaration which undertook to preserve the post expansion status .
The West has always been an accomplice of Israel in its relentless expansionist designs which led to no real opposition to the annexation of East Jerusalem, the Construction of Settlements and the other myriad forms of Arab land grab.
Later developments in the region led some to
reconsider and propose 1967 borders as the final Israeli borders.
That led to a very faint mode of opposition deliberately designed NOT to deter Israel from proceeding with its expansionist plans for the West Bank .
Measures presently under consideration including the Labelling scheme will NOT deter Israel from pursuing a plan attained and agreed with the Western Judo/Christian alliance and implemented with the alliance full support!
full support
7
The two biggest issues here, as the author points out, are lack of consistency of how the rules are applied, and making international law come across as a recommendation, not a law. These are dangerous precedents.
If the EU applied the same standards to Morocco and other territories, I would at least feel that the law is being applied consistently. When any law is applied inconsistently, be it a trade law, or the death penalty, it undermines the law.
If the EU applied the same standards to Morocco and other territories, I would at least feel that the law is being applied consistently. When any law is applied inconsistently, be it a trade law, or the death penalty, it undermines the law.
52
China used a lot of diplomatic muscle to almost bring Taiwan to its knees. It made sure it was never allowed to join any multilateral institution, or else. The diplomatic isolation was almost complete.
But even China never pushed for outright embargo of Taiwan's goods and services. EU has sunk to a lower level than even China.
But even China never pushed for outright embargo of Taiwan's goods and services. EU has sunk to a lower level than even China.
19
The EU has always been a bottom feeder. Nothing new. They make North Korea look rational and fair.
2
Everybody else is doing it, so why can't we? Making disparate treatment the sole argument in defense of your client calls a lot of attention to how indefensible the underlying conduct is. Only a law professor would try to convince a jury (here, the public) with this weak rhetoric.
15
The fact is, they were not made in Israel, that area is not Israel. You can't take stuff that doesn't belong to you, try to call it yours, then complain when people point this out.
36
To whom does the land belong, if not Israel? The West Bank was offered to the Arabs on multiple occasions to create a state (before the creation of the State of Israel, immediately afterwards, after the 1967 war, etc.), and their answer was always "No." The Jordanians claimed it at one time, but they have withdrawn that claim. If you want to say that it's disputed territory, fair enough - but Israel has no lesser claim to it than anyone else.
3
Name me a country that has not conquered territory belonging to someone else. Are we going to label products made in New York as "made in occupied Native American territory"?
23
So the West Bank is conquered territory that belongs to Israel? Even the Israelis don't say that.
Way to focus on what matters.
And it is not anti Israel. It is anti land theft and ethnic cleansing.
What was needed in pre WWiI Europe.
And it is not anti Israel. It is anti land theft and ethnic cleansing.
What was needed in pre WWiI Europe.
15
How about Tibet and China? What hypocrites! Bow down to the oil rich? It's pretty obvious. Anti-semitism under a new name.
4
The crux of this matter lies not in the detailed language of trade agreements. Instead it's reflected in two simple phrases. One refers to products from areas "that came under its control in 1967" and the other is the phrase "made in Israel."
These simple words have been carefully chosen to obfuscate the real issue. The "areas under its control" means the military occupation of the West Bank. And "made in Israel" is a reminder that Israel has annexed almost 40% of the West Bank and unilaterally changes its boarders almost daily.
Israeli security is a very real issue, one that the Obama administration has repeatedly recognized and supported with military aid, intelligence exchanges and full diplomatic support. But some in Israel see annexation and security as one and the same and 4 million Palestinian people as a mere temporary obstacle that can resolutely be dealt with through harsh policies executed under the very same diplomatic cover that the US and the EU provides.
Labeling West Bank products is a very small gesture allowing the buying public to express the view, if it chooses to, that 48 years of occupation is enough. Others may choose differently. Buyers do the same with "fair trade" labels, or 'no child labor' so why not let us know where our money is going and what it's supporting? Maybe one day "made in Israel" will appear along side labels saying made in Palestine and both will be a reminder of a long overdo resolution of this conflict.
These simple words have been carefully chosen to obfuscate the real issue. The "areas under its control" means the military occupation of the West Bank. And "made in Israel" is a reminder that Israel has annexed almost 40% of the West Bank and unilaterally changes its boarders almost daily.
Israeli security is a very real issue, one that the Obama administration has repeatedly recognized and supported with military aid, intelligence exchanges and full diplomatic support. But some in Israel see annexation and security as one and the same and 4 million Palestinian people as a mere temporary obstacle that can resolutely be dealt with through harsh policies executed under the very same diplomatic cover that the US and the EU provides.
Labeling West Bank products is a very small gesture allowing the buying public to express the view, if it chooses to, that 48 years of occupation is enough. Others may choose differently. Buyers do the same with "fair trade" labels, or 'no child labor' so why not let us know where our money is going and what it's supporting? Maybe one day "made in Israel" will appear along side labels saying made in Palestine and both will be a reminder of a long overdo resolution of this conflict.
38
If there's a problem, the solution is readily available. End the occupation.
46
Israel ended the occupation of Gaza. It's a hotbed of terrorism. It ended its occupation of the Sinai. Hotbed of terrorism. Ended occupation of Lebanon. Hotbed of terrorism. Ending the occupation is only a solution if you can't think ahead.
2
Me thinks Kontorovich doth protest too much. Surely the millions of consumers who have positive feelings about the label "Israeli Settlements" will gravitate towards purchasing products with this label. Kontorovich reveals his own disdain for settlements by assuming that the label will be morally off-putting to European buyers. If he believes settlements are something that Israel should stand proud about, then he should be proud to have this label gleaming on their products, much as many in the US fly the Confederate flag with unabashed pride.
172
How Israeli supporters rant and rave every time other nations punish them for their illegal occupation of West Bank properties. What right does Israel have to continue to arbitrarily take what does not belong to them, and subjugate Palestinians in a calloused manner?
The U.S. is complicate and the primary enabler of Israeli's crimes against Palestine. Thank God the EU is not lead by a ring through its nose as American politicians are led by an all powerful Israeli lobby.
The U.S. is complicate and the primary enabler of Israeli's crimes against Palestine. Thank God the EU is not lead by a ring through its nose as American politicians are led by an all powerful Israeli lobby.
39
Apparently What works fine for the rest of the world in China/Tibet is not acceptable in the ME.
3
Israel is now getting the long due bill for decades of theft, abuse and greedy, inhumane behavior: Europe got it right to hit them where it hurts, and only loosing money will set some some people staright.
1
Arguments against labeling for consumer information are always strained and unconvincing. They ring true to those with particular economic or political interest in sales of the goods but few others. Both Israel and, for example, the company Monsanto with its campaign against GMO labeling for foods know this. They and their water carriers put their weak arguments out solely to provide cover for the hacks in government they rent.
12
I don't understand the European Commission's motivation. Ultimately this will create more unemployment for the Palestinians who work in the area.
39
They don't actually want to help the palestinians, they just want to punish the Jews.
4
What's not to understand? They hate Jews. They don't actually care about Palestinians. If this were not the case, then their action, as you point out, would make no sense.
4
why do you mixed Jews and Israeli policies ? And what are the Jews ?
What is the common point between a young American trader form Jewish religion who use cocaine, a french inhabitant of Aix-les-bains who have chose the orthodox way of life, my neighbors in queens always with with and black close and the colon in Israel ? Circumcised prepuce, perhaps. It is so boring to read that EU want punish the Jews. Please stop with this.
What is the common point between a young American trader form Jewish religion who use cocaine, a french inhabitant of Aix-les-bains who have chose the orthodox way of life, my neighbors in queens always with with and black close and the colon in Israel ? Circumcised prepuce, perhaps. It is so boring to read that EU want punish the Jews. Please stop with this.
It’s not a case of “striking back at Israel.” It’s a case of attempting to free Israelis from the worst moral and ethical ravages of their policy of occupation and land theft by waking them up to the fact that the rest of the world is no longer going to tolerate the oppression of the Palestinians as business as usual.
In that sense the labeling and boycott is not “anti-Israel.” It is pro-Israel.
In that sense the labeling and boycott is not “anti-Israel.” It is pro-Israel.
26
I am not only tired of but sickened by pieces like this, which try to paint the criticism Israel very justly deserves as anti-Semitism. Yes, anti-Semitism is a very real thing. But any element of anti-Semitism here pales when set against:
1. The illegal occupation of territory which has only become more extensive and more permanent over time;
2. The systematic deprivation of human and civil rights, not only of those in the occupied territories, but of arab Israeli citizens;
3. A government which contains racists who make genocidal statements, and a despicable rise in racism (closely linked with Israeli embrace of the settler movement).
If you are in any doubt of the fairness of these points, they are amply documented in current Israeli sources (see for example Ha'aretz). If you want to help Israel at this point, concentrate your efforts on reforming it, not excusing it.
1. The illegal occupation of territory which has only become more extensive and more permanent over time;
2. The systematic deprivation of human and civil rights, not only of those in the occupied territories, but of arab Israeli citizens;
3. A government which contains racists who make genocidal statements, and a despicable rise in racism (closely linked with Israeli embrace of the settler movement).
If you are in any doubt of the fairness of these points, they are amply documented in current Israeli sources (see for example Ha'aretz). If you want to help Israel at this point, concentrate your efforts on reforming it, not excusing it.
41
What is your response to the teaching in Palestinian schools of death to Israel and Israelis? Of the nice-nice talk to Western countries and the hate talk within their own Palestinian communities? This started BEFORE Israel was even a nation. What do you make of the 70 years of refusal to recognize Israel? What do you make of the many years of refusal to make peace? This recalcitrance is at base no different than the Republican refusal to work with President Obama. Hatred and contempt are the source in both cases, and you can't get to constructive action with hate filled people. This decision acts to justify such base feelings and as such it is vile -- with or without anti-semitism.
3
"If you want to help Israel at this point, concentrate your efforts on reforming it, not excusing it."
Sadly, as long as the excuses continue and the labeling of anti-settlement activists as anti-Semitic persists reformation of Israel will never occur.
Sadly, as long as the excuses continue and the labeling of anti-settlement activists as anti-Semitic persists reformation of Israel will never occur.
If not for the support of the United States, the majority of the civilized world would long ago have taken steps to address the colonization of Palestine. Perhaps it is unfortunate for Israel that it's encroachment has occurred in the 20th & 21st centuries, when it is more difficult to put indigenous people into reservations.
18
Are not the Jews indigenous there also?
4
It is ironic that one would argue that the EU should follow the law when Israel only selectively follows international laws. These selective approaches to the law both fit nicely into a global trend where most nations have moved towards a "might-makes-right" interpretation of international law. This environment makes diplomacy more vital to maintain world peace. It also means that whining in courts is essentially meaningless and disputing parties must endeavor to work things out amongst themselves.
11
The irony for many of the posters who believe this will help the Palestinians in the West Bank, is that many Palestinians are employed by Jewish farms or companies on the WEst Bank. Soda Stream which was closed down, perhaps in part because of boycott efforts, employed hundreds of Palestinians, even in mangaement positions and at the same wage scale as Jewish employees. Soda stream is moving, sonmore Palestinians are out of work, and the company will open a larger not-to-be labelled factory inside the Green line. Who gets hurt?
The issue I find perplexing, everything else aside, is that many who want well for the Palestinians actually promote ideas that make them suffer more.
On another issue, altogether, there are number if people who claimed that Israel is non-democratic and Palestinians cannot vote. This is simply not the vtase, and in fact had the third largest Partyrepresentatiin in the Govt. following the last election.Palestinians living in East Jerusalem generallyb do not vote in City election although theyare eligible to do so because ton participate in the process is seen as traitorous to their cause. They receive support not to vote from outside organizations. This is yet another case of misreading a situation. Should they vote they could make up of a third of voters and have representation on the City Council, which determines building permits, changes in infrastructure, education budgets, etc.
The issue I find perplexing, everything else aside, is that many who want well for the Palestinians actually promote ideas that make them suffer more.
On another issue, altogether, there are number if people who claimed that Israel is non-democratic and Palestinians cannot vote. This is simply not the vtase, and in fact had the third largest Partyrepresentatiin in the Govt. following the last election.Palestinians living in East Jerusalem generallyb do not vote in City election although theyare eligible to do so because ton participate in the process is seen as traitorous to their cause. They receive support not to vote from outside organizations. This is yet another case of misreading a situation. Should they vote they could make up of a third of voters and have representation on the City Council, which determines building permits, changes in infrastructure, education budgets, etc.
17
Trickle down economics, west bank style.
2
Oh the old colonial argument: "We are helping them. Without us they would have nowhere to go..." Wake up, this is 2015: the occupation must end. Let people live and decide for themselves.
1
Talking about labeling - the US Government does not permit any of its citizens born in the settlements (and that includes Jerusalem) to use the label "Israel" as their place of birth in their passports.
Seems the EU aren't the only ones concerned about honest labeling.
Now how about that!
Seems the EU aren't the only ones concerned about honest labeling.
Now how about that!
21
Two entities getting it right!
2
Great point!
1
I love the NYT and consider it one of the last grand news establishments in the country. And I also know that the Right Wing gnashing its teeth at "the liberal media" is absurd. But the topic of Israel manages to strike against both understandings. From the outset, Mr. Kontorovich reveals his hand by referring to the Occupied Territories as "areas that came under its control in 1967." He doesn't even bother to provide a counterargument against this globally-held name for those lands but merely sidesteps it as if it was not even an issue. So how, from such intentionally deceptive beginnings, are we told take seriously anything else the man writes, let alone the assertion that the EU's move "reduc[es] Israel's incentives to take international law seriously?" As if Israel has ever shown any interest in taking international law as it relates to the Territories seriously. The Times' habit of printing opinion pieces so glaringly partisan and intellectually unsupportable, in fact, dramatically undermines its non-partisan readers' abilities to take the paper seriously. I find this sad, given how much responsibility for civil society in carries on its shoulder in this age of infotainment.
37
Yes, Israel conquered the independent Arab nation of Palestine in 1967.
Oh wait a minute, no such thing ever existed in the history of the world. What Israel did was to push out the Jordanians, who had repeatedly attacked Israel from the West Bank (so named only after the illegal annexation by Jordan in 1950).
The 1950 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica still referred to the area as Judea and Samaria.
Oh wait a minute, no such thing ever existed in the history of the world. What Israel did was to push out the Jordanians, who had repeatedly attacked Israel from the West Bank (so named only after the illegal annexation by Jordan in 1950).
The 1950 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica still referred to the area as Judea and Samaria.
3
Kontorovich's sterile legalisms are reduced to absurdity, when contrasted with the real human deprivation and oppression, inflicted by Israel's immoral and illegal occupation of the West Bank.
45
The simple fact is, the labeling initiative constitutes truth in advertising - goods from the occupied territories will be labeled as such, distinguishing them from goods from Israel proper. If the Israeli occupation is not unpopular in Europe, the new labels will have no effect. But of course the Israeli occupation is unpopular in Europe, and the new labels will enable consumers to exercise their purchase proxy votes against the occupation. And evidently Mr. Kontorovich is feeling just a tad defensive about the settlements, since his view is essentially that consumers should have no right to know when they are buying settlement-produced goods.
If opposing Israeli settlement policy is anti-Israel, so be it. I guess that means because I oppose American Guantanamo Bay policy I'm anti-American.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
If opposing Israeli settlement policy is anti-Israel, so be it. I guess that means because I oppose American Guantanamo Bay policy I'm anti-American.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
11
When Israeli rescinds its special brutalizing rules and treatments that makes Palestinian existence marginal and humiliating, perhaps then world will smile on Israel. Until then, act like a thug, be treated like a thug, and have your settlement products labelled so people know they are made by thugs. Is that so hard to understand? Nothing anti-Semitic at all.
33
Six years ago, a majority of NYT readers were quite positive to various Israel's positions. Now, the great majority of readers are seriously negative. Thanks Bibi, thanks Congress, thanks fake and irresponsible politicians and their sycophants, thanks pressure groups working against our real interest........oops, forgot, we should blame Obama
14
And also thanks to the NYT for these kind of editorials!
Preaching probity to Israel and its unquestioning US is more appropriate, don't you think ? Why is it that international laws are invoked only when they are convenient ?
9
The professor argues well; the sins of Morroco far outweigh those of Israel.
11
Huh?? Since when is more information a bad thing? Israel is not upset because the products are mislabeled, they are upset because they are no longer able to obfuscate the fact that they came from the occupied territories. If the problem is that fewer people will buy these products because of their opinion of the settlements, the solution is not to hide the product origin but, rather, to change the public's opinion about the settlements (or to remove them altogether).
It's disappointing that such a bastion of free speech as the NY Times would advocate for the intentional misleading of consumers.
It's disappointing that such a bastion of free speech as the NY Times would advocate for the intentional misleading of consumers.
35
The New York Times is not advocating anything that I can tell, but rather printing Kontorovich's opinion, perverse as it may be. Citing other countries' policies and poor conduct that they may "get away with" in an attempt to justify the dirty dealing and/or deception of a favorite is hardly noble, but rather ugly and ignoble.
2
Anti semitism lives! Israel is not perfect but then no country is. Will the EU be labeling Russian products or Saudi products or.....the list could go on and on but the EU won issue this labels.
11
Yes. We already have labels on Russian and Saudi products so customers, like myself, who have issues with the regime in question can decide not to purchase the products. This has always been the case.
2
The E.U is sanctioning Russia, remember? Let's sanction Israel too. Let's cut "aid" to Israel for starters.
1
Are you awarded that EU follows an embargo about Russian which cost lost money. Are you informed that Saudi is the historical most important ally of USA in the middle east ?
Reading through the commentary on any Israel article is fascinating. There are reflexive anti-Israel commentary (anything to punish Israel, even if it's illegal) and reflexive pro-Israel commentary. Neither addresses the points raised in the article. The author makes a fair point about the disproportional and questionably illegal labeling of product made in occupied territories. By enacting measures that specifically targets Israel, rather than all occupied territories, the EU is at risk of becoming like the UN; a supposedly independent body that is hyper-focused on one country.
12
To be fair, the EU is also hyper-focused on aggressively applying competition and privacy laws to punish and hinder American tech companies too.
(So at least a little bit of a broader mandate than the UN)
(So at least a little bit of a broader mandate than the UN)
The problem is not that the European Union fails to live up to its standards (as you write), but rather that Israel fails to live up to its responsibility as a just and democratic nation. When the settlements are gone and the Palestinians have their land returned, only then will Israel restore its standing.
33
I am convinced that it would be very good for Israel, if the US like the European Union takes a more proactive role in telling them when they are wrong. If your friend is acting rather aggressively I.e. Driving drunk you should do very thing to tell him about it and avoid driving in the car with him...by doing this you may save your friend's life and you show yourself to be a real friend.
11
This is so tiresome, especially the comments by so many poorly informed individuals repeating hackneyed, half-truths. On both sides. After all just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you. The EU and so many of the commenters are clearly 'out to get' Israel and clearly misread, misunderstand and misstate aspects of her history and her relationship with Palestinians, accusations that could just as easily be thrown at Israel and her supporters. The EU and the 'shouters' that vilify Israel have deceptive and untrustworthy motives that stink of anti-semitism, no matter what sheep's clothing you wrap them in. And shame on Israel for acting in such a horrid manner unworthy of its cultural and moral heritage. And shame on Palestinians for continuing to follow bellicose, avaricious leaders who encourage others to commit heinous acts, and grow more personal wealth than they do civic infrastructure. And fail to deliver time and time and time again.
10
The treatment of Israel on the world stage is ludicrous. To worry about Israel's record on human rights to the degree that is widespread is deeply dishonest. Where is the hand-wringing over our friends who are truly brutal. Saudi Arabia, for example? How about the US whose human rights record is dubious??? Many folks will say that it's not antisemitism, but when examining the stark contrast between the narrative on Israel and how other countries with similar or worse records are viewed. it's hard to come up with an alternate explanation.
19
This is just hair splitting. The only way Israel will give Palestinians a state is if it bites in the wallet. No other way. What's more non-violent than that? A groundbreaking move by Europe to help the cause of peace and human rights everywhere.
53
This is just the latest example that Netanyahu's policies and rhetoric have done immense political damage to Israel. He is not only losing the public relations war with the PLO he is on the verge of loosing it with Hamas a terrorist organization. If Israeli's want to understand why they are losing support in Europe and the U.S. they need to look in the mirror. They re-elected Netanyahu despite his extremely offensive behavior and policies. He has tried to mend fences in the U.S. with his latest visit but he will never regain the trust he has squandered. Israel's standing in the world will continue to decline as long as he leads an Israeli government.
42
A great idea-all products should be labeled as to sources so people can decide who to support----i.e. minerals from warring countries, products from thieving states, what is likely to contain contaminants, GMO's etc.
33
Noting where you live Peg, how about "Made in Occupied Iroquois Confederation" for starters?
5
The problem with trying to single out products made in the territories is that it does not succeed in stopping the expansion of Israeli residential settlements in the territories. On the contrary, Israelies choose settlements because they are inexpensive and they can still commute into Israel proper for better paying jobs; a priviledge not available to many Palestinians who are practically restricted to an area with high unemployment (22.5% as of 2013). Many of the good jobs available in the West Bank are in Israeli owned factories. Putting negative pressures on these factories harms the practical economic partnership between the two peoples. Israelis working side-by-side with Palestinians and Palestinians having a middle-class wage are important bridges to peace.
43
Arab West Bank residents used to be able to commute to jobs in Israel before the risk of terrorist attacks grew too high. Their own people ruined the situation for them, just as discouraging Israeli investment in the West Bank will prevent economic growth and jobs developing there. The Arabs need to embrace peace first, then benefits will follow.
6
I certainly don't know enough law to argue with Prof K about this. But without such specific labeling, won't opponents of Israel's policies be forced to boycott everything coming from the country?
17
"won't opponents of Israel's policies be forced to boycott everything coming from the country"
I think you can be assured that "opponents" of Israel and its policies are already boycotting anything that says made in Israel.
This is an "in your face" type of labeling, putting a pejorative label on a product that likely is produced by Palestinian labor at 3x the wage other jobs Palestinians can get in the West Bank.
When pressure contributed to Sodastream relocating a factory from the West Bank to behind the Green line, the only ones who suffered were the Palestinians who had been making the same wages and benefits as the Israelis they worked alongside. The Palestinians BEGGED the world NOT to boycott, but the Israel bashers are never really interested in what benefits the Palestinians, only what harms Israel.
I think you can be assured that "opponents" of Israel and its policies are already boycotting anything that says made in Israel.
This is an "in your face" type of labeling, putting a pejorative label on a product that likely is produced by Palestinian labor at 3x the wage other jobs Palestinians can get in the West Bank.
When pressure contributed to Sodastream relocating a factory from the West Bank to behind the Green line, the only ones who suffered were the Palestinians who had been making the same wages and benefits as the Israelis they worked alongside. The Palestinians BEGGED the world NOT to boycott, but the Israel bashers are never really interested in what benefits the Palestinians, only what harms Israel.
4
I guess the best example of a thought exhaustion of Zionism is the fact, that there's only one argument for its support: "We are not the only ones who commit wrongdoing". Well, it's true. But not enough for me.
15
I've never replied before to anyone no matter how much I disagreed with them, but what you wrote got me especially upset. Your claim that Israel's only rightful claim is that they are "not the only ones who commit wrongdoing" is a bald faced lie. When there is a natural catastrophe, Israel is usually the first country to send teams of workers in to help those in need. For years Israel went out of its way to make Palestinians a part of that country. They were met regularly by terrorist acts. Israel is a democratic country and, as such, is answerable to their people (and the world) for any acts that go against basic human rights. No, I do not support the current administration in Israel, but to say something as heinous as you have, is unconscionable.
2
What is Israel doing for the Syrian refugees then? You say they are the first at the scene --- where is the help? Crickets.....
We give Israel billions every year, and Israel is a rich country, and yet they are among the lowest nations, per capita, in the world in terms of charity and giving.
We give Israel billions every year, and Israel is a rich country, and yet they are among the lowest nations, per capita, in the world in terms of charity and giving.
2
If the European Commission or others behind this discriminatory labeling move really cared about Palestinians, they would promote, not malign, products made in disputed territory. There isn't any (as far as I know) Arab sponsored economic development in those areas, so why discourage Israeli investment? And no, I do not support Israel building settlements in disputed territory.
10
Rather than spuriously claiming that informing consumers of the origin of goods reduces Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously, Eugene could better devote his efforts to getting Israel to take international law seriously and cease its unlawful occupation.
29
The NY Times' legalistic argument about the EU's unequal application of labels is undoubtedly correct, but at the same time misses the point. I doubt that any reader would argue that Moroccan claims over the Western Sahara have as great an impact on geopolitics as does the Israeli-Palestinian situation. In fact, Israeli legal experts have argued that Israeli control over the West Bank is legal under that same system of international law. Instead, the EU's actions should be viewed as a form of "non violent" protest. Until now, consumers upset with Israeli policies could choose to not purchase any goods "Made in Israel" (a choice, which by the way, does not constitute a boycott). In the future, one could make the case that protests can be more precisely aimed, and a consumer can choose to avoid only those products produced in the West Bank and in the Golan Heights. It is unrealistic to expect all those countries which favor a two-state solution to talk the talk, but take no action; of the available ways to "voice" one's political beliefs, this is actually the most benign.
67
Your point about protests being more precisely aimed is a good one. Still, the law has to be applied to all or none. I think you make a good case for all, which would include Morocco, regardless of the fact that the media makes less of a big deal about them. If you have 2 murders, do you ignore one because it made less of an impact on society?
2
I'm curious what percentage of workers in the areas where the label "Israeli Settlement" are Israeli versus Palestinian. According to the article, anything made in the West Bank would be labeled "Israeli Settlement" products. Does this mean that products made by a Palestinian-owned company, by Palestinians, would also be labeled "Israeli Settlement?"
If I were a company owner, I would likely consider relocating my manufacturing to get the "Made in Israel" labeling. If that were the case, any Palestinian workers would likely lose their valuable jobs as part of this move.
I'm not really sure this whole thing was well-thought out. I think this initiative may actually harm, not help, the Palestinians themselves.
For the record, I'm completely against the building of Israeli settlements as I feel they are counterproductive to peace.
If I were a company owner, I would likely consider relocating my manufacturing to get the "Made in Israel" labeling. If that were the case, any Palestinian workers would likely lose their valuable jobs as part of this move.
I'm not really sure this whole thing was well-thought out. I think this initiative may actually harm, not help, the Palestinians themselves.
For the record, I'm completely against the building of Israeli settlements as I feel they are counterproductive to peace.
3
"I doubt that any reader would argue that Moroccan claims over the Western Sahara have as great an impact on geopolitics as does the Israeli-Palestinian situation."
Only because of the disproportionate attention paid to Israel, in the UN and elsewhere.
Back in the real world, more people are affected by the situation in Western Sahara than in Israel. But unfortunately for them, the Africans don't have the same massive PR structure in place that the Palestinians do.
Only because of the disproportionate attention paid to Israel, in the UN and elsewhere.
Back in the real world, more people are affected by the situation in Western Sahara than in Israel. But unfortunately for them, the Africans don't have the same massive PR structure in place that the Palestinians do.
4
I wonder, since actually "Palestine" is not a state, and "West Bank" is a left over term from Jordan's 1950 illegal annexation, never recognized by Europe or the US or nay other country except England, could a better term be adopted? After all, a cucumber grown by an Arab and a Jew less than 200 yards away from each other and labeled as "produced" in two separate entities that are non-states sounds ridiculous. Since that entire area was once a League of Nations Mandate called alternatively Palestine and Eretz-Israel, why not use that now? Or "Judea and Samaria" which is the original historic term even used by the United Nations delineating the 1947 Partition borders.
9
Were Israel to leave the settlements tomorrow they would be reduced to rubble within a week by looting. Look at the Gaza greenhouses for example.
16
Simple solution: boycott all Israeli products until the Israeli government does the right thing and stops the illegal settlements. Basta!
49
So you'll be banning all Chinese products until China does the right thing and leaves Tibet?
4
Let me see if I have got this straight. The EU wants products made in Israeli colonies to be labeled made in Israeli colonies, not even complying with known facts, products made in Palestine are not permitted to be labeled MADE IN PALESTINE.
7
#1 there is no such state of Palestine ...yet
#2 Label them "made in Judea and Samaria" if you are interested in telling consumers where the product is from. That is the historically accurate name for these places
#3 Labelling "occupied territories" is clearly a political and biased tactic that actually hurts the Palestian arabs more than it helps them (see what happened when sodastream left - arabs lost their jobs and income)
#2 Label them "made in Judea and Samaria" if you are interested in telling consumers where the product is from. That is the historically accurate name for these places
#3 Labelling "occupied territories" is clearly a political and biased tactic that actually hurts the Palestian arabs more than it helps them (see what happened when sodastream left - arabs lost their jobs and income)
5
A very modest measure. Look, we and our allies forcibly ejected Sadam Hussein from Kuwait when he illegally occupied their territory. As far as I know, Hussein was not colonizing this "captured" territory as the Israelis are, and labeling products from the West Bank is an outrage? Enough, already!
45
That was for the oil not for the Kuwaitis. Are you prepared to give Texas back to the Mexicans? There are complex reasons why things are done and to ignore them is to ignore history.
3
I distinctly remember violation of international law international as being the Casus Belli of that war. I also remember the plight of innocent Kuwaiti victims as a widely advertised reason to eject Hussein. Many of us didn't believe it for a minute and did not support the invasion. Financial sanctions would have been preferable, which is what we are discussing here.
As for Texas, I wish that we had never annexed it, but that is ancient history. In the 21st Century, we have different standards for what is permissible behavior by states. What Israel is up to is illegal according to international law and that law should be enforced evenhandedly by the international community.
The US should boycott Israeli products, instead we give them massive aid.
As for Texas, I wish that we had never annexed it, but that is ancient history. In the 21st Century, we have different standards for what is permissible behavior by states. What Israel is up to is illegal according to international law and that law should be enforced evenhandedly by the international community.
The US should boycott Israeli products, instead we give them massive aid.
1
Consumers need information to act responsibly. All products from any occupied or disputed territory, throughout the world, should be so labeled.
52
This decision by the European Union was a long time coming -- forty years overdue.
161
Illegal? A good one. And building permanent settlements in occupied territory must be totally legal then, I presume?
66
Israel has steadily been losing support, in recent years, among the international community and even in the United States. This little issue is only one example of the drift. The nightly news images of the military oppression of unhappy people under Israeli control has been going on too long. Supporters can see anti-Semitism and unfair treatment as an excuse to continue the status quo but a more logical response would be to defuse the situation by using something beside the Israeli Defense Force.
1
Boycott ALL made in Israel products. Assume they are all produced in the illegal settlements. Israel has no incentive to dismantle those settlements unless inflicted with some economic pain. The legal producers will then want the labeling. Let internal pressure bring about the change then there will be no cries of anti-semitism.
54
It's the occupation that's illegal, and that will be terminated through actions of the international community, with or without the support of the failing American empire.
41
At least you're right in calling it "the American Empire." Its land was stolen from the Native Americans and then colonized with permanent settlements.
3
Are not native Americans allowed to live anywhere in the U.S? Do they have equal rights? Can they vote? Ask yourself if this applies to Palestinians
For those that have forgotten what took place in Europe in the 1930's and 40's, let me remind you that Israel will not allow history to repeat itself. It is quite obvious that Israel is subjected to a different standard. If you want Israel to relinquish control over territories seized when attacked you should begin by demanding that all countries in the world do the same, beginning with those that have seized territories centuries ago. Israel is new to the game by comparison. Let all the other countries in the world lead by example. I for one would wager that the status quo will remain as is. Try walking the walk!
25
I'm not sure that Israel was "attacked" in 1967. Israel launched a preemptive blitz against Egypt and Syria because it appeared there might be an attack. So you appear to be arguing the aggressor should be allowed to maintain control over lands seized. Hmmm.
5
For those who are for the right of Israel to exist, but opposed to the settlements, this labeling makes sense. A boycott of only settlement-made products is effective targeting, and enables the consumer who is NOT reflexively anti-semitic, but who wishes to discourage Israel from pursuing this hateful, cynical and destructive action. Many of us feel that the building of settlements in occupied territory prolongs an impossible situation, leads to unjustifiable suffering of the Palestinian population, and ultimately weakens Israel herself.
37
Let's all hurt the Palestinians more. All they are doing is driving business away from the places that need it most. SodaStream, which employed hundreds of Palestinians are excellent wages was forced out and has relocated. The beneficiaries? The Bedouins of the south. The victims? The Palestinians who lost their jobs and their incomes. How did that help them?
Instead of thinking only about driving the Jews into the sea, how about you stop for a sec and think about how to develop an economy that would get the Palestinians outta poverty?
Just a thought.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
Instead of thinking only about driving the Jews into the sea, how about you stop for a sec and think about how to develop an economy that would get the Palestinians outta poverty?
Just a thought.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
19
You can not hurt the Palestinians any more than Israel is currently.
4
Such "logic" could have been applied to excuse slavery in he south too: hey, they're getting free food and a job, what will they do when they're "unemployed"?
Palestinians have spoken and they want the products labeled too. Your concern for their welfare is ... noted.
Palestinians have spoken and they want the products labeled too. Your concern for their welfare is ... noted.
3
"Instead of thinking only about driving the Jews into the sea, how about you stop for a sec and think about how to develop an economy that would get the Palestinians outta poverty? "
A good start would be if Israel could stop destroying Palestinian buildings and denying the Palestinians the concrete they need to rebuild them.
Of course that would have to be right after they stop killing Palestinian women and children first.
A good start would be if Israel could stop destroying Palestinian buildings and denying the Palestinians the concrete they need to rebuild them.
Of course that would have to be right after they stop killing Palestinian women and children first.
I think the European measures ought to go even further: don't even waste the ink. Ban all imports to Europe from the occupied territories. I think we ought to applaud this belated response by the West to Israel's disregard for international law and human rights.
26
The U.S. took and kept land lived on and "owned" by Native Americans. Should all products of the U.S. be boycotted. Most other nations in the world have invaded and occupied or seized land from other people. It's been part of history since people populated the earth. You can hardly find a nation state in the world that hasn't done it--from colonial powers to states that today sit on land once "owned" and peopled by others. Boycotts? No. Only Israel, which fought a defensive war in 1967 is viewed as a usurper worthy of condemnation and boycotts. I find that many people posting comments about Israel are barely disguised apologists for terrorism in the name of "freedom" and cast aspersions on Israel they never would on any other nation state---states guilty of far worse than anything Israel has ever done. Anti-Semites will always be among us--often disguised, but always visible.
21
It would be hard to boycott such an established fact as the US now. This illegal occupation is taking place right before our eyes. To do nothing would prove there's been no progress in international law, ever.
6
You cannot occupy conquered territory. You either annex it and grant equal rights to all inhabitants, (like the U.S. did) or you allow the territory independence. You can not have it both ways, like Israel has done for 40 years
2
Please. Compare today with today, not yesterday or centuries ago with today. Native Americans are full American citizens, and they can vote, run for office and work in government, they are not second class citizens or forced to go through check points. Stop comparing apples to oranges resorting to ad hominem anti-{insert the group} labels. It's lazy and it's the same argument Chinese and Russian propaganda cyber armies use any time anyone's remotely critical of their human rights violations. Criticize their human rights? *gasp* you're anti-China. Criticize affirmative action? *gasp* you're a racist all of a sudden.
The issue is not about "labeling" products from Israel. The EU which has a significant number of muslims in its midst appears to be vying for a political position which reflects support for muslims without otherwise assailing Israel.
By showing indirect support for the muslim community in this manner, the EU walks a fine political line of acknowledging Israel 's borders but also messaging to the muslims some "left handed support " for the Palestinians.
It would seem to be at least a suitable short term strategy to message the muslims that Europe is attempting to be "balanced" in its view of the Palestinian Israeli conflict. So long as the muslim community sees some support, there might be a better chance for social stability throughout Europe.
By showing indirect support for the muslim community in this manner, the EU walks a fine political line of acknowledging Israel 's borders but also messaging to the muslims some "left handed support " for the Palestinians.
It would seem to be at least a suitable short term strategy to message the muslims that Europe is attempting to be "balanced" in its view of the Palestinian Israeli conflict. So long as the muslim community sees some support, there might be a better chance for social stability throughout Europe.
8
Israel is a rogue state. It has consistently defied UN mandate 242 to return to its pre-1967 borders, it has refused to sign the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, it keeps prisoners under administrative detention without due process of law for years, it encourages recent immigrants from Brooklyn, New York to occupy and build homes on territory in the West Bank that has belonged to Palestinians for generations.
If the United States and the EU could impose harsh economic sanctions on Iran for building nuclear reactors, it seems consistent that it give another rogue state a slap on the wrist.
If the United States and the EU could impose harsh economic sanctions on Iran for building nuclear reactors, it seems consistent that it give another rogue state a slap on the wrist.
47
So upholding international law is unfair loooooooooooooooooool Get a grip of yourselves! ;-)
4
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration said Thursday it doesn't consider a new European Union rule outlawing "Made in Israel" tags on goods from the West Bank as a boycott of the Jewish state, only a technical guideline for consumers.
The EU labeling of settlement products are not anti-Israel measures. The settlements are not Israel including according to international law. There are enough people who care enough about the creeping reality with regard to the Israel Palestine conflict to have this label. Let's be honest. People want to know where a product comes from and under what circumstances including for political reasons. If Morocco is doing the same then so too their products should be so labeled if enough people care. If Crimea starts labeling it's products Russian the same applies. Products that came from Japan after the war were labeled "occupied Japan".
The EU labeling of settlement products are not anti-Israel measures. The settlements are not Israel including according to international law. There are enough people who care enough about the creeping reality with regard to the Israel Palestine conflict to have this label. Let's be honest. People want to know where a product comes from and under what circumstances including for political reasons. If Morocco is doing the same then so too their products should be so labeled if enough people care. If Crimea starts labeling it's products Russian the same applies. Products that came from Japan after the war were labeled "occupied Japan".
17
The US should do the same.
And stop providing aid.
And stop providing aid.
49
Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously: If the goal posts can be moved, there is less reason to play the game.
-------------------------
Finally you are seeing the light, Professor Kontorovich:
Israel should stop playing games, especially when the Israeli leader came to Washington this week again with his hand out to the United States for military protection millions and billions.
The American taxpayer will not indefinitely subsidize the killings of the Palestinians. A solution is pushed further and further from reach every day, and the demographic reality of the changing neighborhood Israel has chosen to settle looms large.
Perhaps, the EU is helping to open Israeli eyes?
Can your eyes be opened, Professor Kontorovich, or have you made up your mind long long ago, with your writings here more as lobbying pieces rather than rational thought from an American legal scholar? Where is the academic presenting the "other side"?
-------------------------
Finally you are seeing the light, Professor Kontorovich:
Israel should stop playing games, especially when the Israeli leader came to Washington this week again with his hand out to the United States for military protection millions and billions.
The American taxpayer will not indefinitely subsidize the killings of the Palestinians. A solution is pushed further and further from reach every day, and the demographic reality of the changing neighborhood Israel has chosen to settle looms large.
Perhaps, the EU is helping to open Israeli eyes?
Can your eyes be opened, Professor Kontorovich, or have you made up your mind long long ago, with your writings here more as lobbying pieces rather than rational thought from an American legal scholar? Where is the academic presenting the "other side"?
21
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously"
"the labeling controversy must be viewed as just one step in a broader, purposeful and gradual escalation of anti-Israel measures by the European Union."
The point here of this and all the feared further actions to come is exactly to make Israel take international law seriously.
It does Israel no favors to show the message is not received, and the defiance of international law will only get worse.
If Israel finds itself a pariah, that will be its own doing, or more specifically that of Netanyahu and his settler friends.
"the labeling controversy must be viewed as just one step in a broader, purposeful and gradual escalation of anti-Israel measures by the European Union."
The point here of this and all the feared further actions to come is exactly to make Israel take international law seriously.
It does Israel no favors to show the message is not received, and the defiance of international law will only get worse.
If Israel finds itself a pariah, that will be its own doing, or more specifically that of Netanyahu and his settler friends.
39
You suffer from selective morality and selective inattention. Do you not see the your own double standard as evidenced by the ironclad "morality" you seek to impose on Israel coupled with being an apologist for terrorism by the Palestinians and their refusal to abandon hateful rhetoric and actions? Look at the Hamas charter and you see the eradication of Israel has always been the Arab goal, no matter how it is couched or the euphemisms employed in its expression.
2
No, not "from areas that came under its control in 1967." From settlements put in those areas. Only the settlements.
36
You try threading the needle, but do you think anything produced in the western states of the U.S. should be labeled "Made in land seized from Mexico from which we either expelled or eradicated the indigenous people."? At least be consistent and not disingenuous.
3
The occupied territories are not Israel Does anybody seriously contest that fact?
The EU is trying to separate itself from efforts to legitimize the occupation. The United States should have been the first to take this action, but, at least now, we have an example we can follow.
The EU is trying to separate itself from efforts to legitimize the occupation. The United States should have been the first to take this action, but, at least now, we have an example we can follow.
111
is Texas part of the United States?
2
Yes. Everyone with any understanding of international law contests your position on the occupied territories. Israel has a legal right to be there. They pushed Jordan back and out of those territories in the defensive 1967 war and then established a security zone in the area. That it is a hotbed of controversy now does not make their presence illegal under international law.
4
I seriously contest "that fact". It was land that was legitimately captured from Jordon in 1967 after Israel was attacked by that country and two other neighboring countries. Israel's official view is that the land is up for negotiations, provided that the Palestinians become a serious negotiating partner who recognizes Israel as a fundamentally Jewish state and doesn't exhort its people to terrorize innocent Israeli citizens.
6
The recent history of the West Bank also challenges the rationale for the bases of the EU labeling rules.
On the day (5/15/1948) that Israel became a Jewish state, per UN Resolution 181, the Lebanese, Syrian, Saudi, Egyptian and Jordanian armies attacked Israel. In that war, Jordan captured the West Bank. It then occupied it and formally annexed it in 1950 which was recognized by Iraq, Pakistan and Great Britain. West Bank Palestinians thereby became Jordanian citizens.
In the 1967 war, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan. In 1988, Jordan relinquished its claim to the West Bank and gave it to Arafat's PLO. Since then Israel has allowed the PA to administer parts of the West Bank until a final status treaty could be negotiated, which still awaits.
As it stands, since 1948, the West Bank has only existed as part of two sovereign nations, Jordan and Israel. When Jordan gave up its interests in the West Bank to the PLO, it served to replace Jordan with the PLO as the negotiator for a final status agreement.
Until a final status agreement is reached between the PA and Israel, the West bank continues to be Israeli administered as Samaria and Judea. Therefore, by providing a consumer "warning" of an Israeli product being from an "Israeli Settlement" they are in effect warning that product was "Made In Israel" but doing in a prejudiced way which suggests that the EU questions the very sovereignty of Israel as a nation.
On the day (5/15/1948) that Israel became a Jewish state, per UN Resolution 181, the Lebanese, Syrian, Saudi, Egyptian and Jordanian armies attacked Israel. In that war, Jordan captured the West Bank. It then occupied it and formally annexed it in 1950 which was recognized by Iraq, Pakistan and Great Britain. West Bank Palestinians thereby became Jordanian citizens.
In the 1967 war, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan. In 1988, Jordan relinquished its claim to the West Bank and gave it to Arafat's PLO. Since then Israel has allowed the PA to administer parts of the West Bank until a final status treaty could be negotiated, which still awaits.
As it stands, since 1948, the West Bank has only existed as part of two sovereign nations, Jordan and Israel. When Jordan gave up its interests in the West Bank to the PLO, it served to replace Jordan with the PLO as the negotiator for a final status agreement.
Until a final status agreement is reached between the PA and Israel, the West bank continues to be Israeli administered as Samaria and Judea. Therefore, by providing a consumer "warning" of an Israeli product being from an "Israeli Settlement" they are in effect warning that product was "Made In Israel" but doing in a prejudiced way which suggests that the EU questions the very sovereignty of Israel as a nation.
22
I was not aware of this history. To what country did the West Bank belong before the 1948 creation of Israel? Did the original State of Israel include the West Bank? And, from a practical point of view, how much weight should history carry in finding a stable and permanent solution to the conflict?
2
The EU welcomes all goods from Israel, the settlements and Palestine (there are severe restrictions being imposed on the latter's trade - but, as I think we all know, these can not be put down to the EU). The only thing that the EU is questioning, just like the rest of the world, is the truthfulness of Israelis asserting sovereignty, as distinct from control, over the settlements in the West Bank. It simply wants the origin labels used to be truthful. And honest labels should present no problems for honorable people.
6
Before 1948, all of Palestine was a British Protectorate which was established after WWI. During and before WWI, Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire. UN Resolution 181 established Jewish and Arab States based on their demographics. The Arabs rejected the partition of Palestine into two states, Israel accepted it. The war begun the day of Israel's independence was to wipe out Israel and make all of Palestine an Arab state. In the 1948 war, Jordan took the opportunity to take the West Bank, which it later annexed. While the UN resolution gave a legal basis for the existence of Israel as a Jewish state, Israel, with no assistance from any state except Czechoslovakia, survived by repulsing the attacks of the five Arab armies. It's existence has been threatened in subsequent wars right to this day which is why Israel will not agree to a final status agreement unless it is recognized as a Jewish state by Arab states and has defendable borders. As to how much weight history should carry in any agreement, for the Israelis it touches on their very survival.
The Professor argues his case week and I trust factually. I suppose he'd like that to be the end of the matter. The real problem is the motive for European actions. For that one might refer to Blumenthal's "Goliath" based on Jewish sources inside Israel. And if you find what Mr. Blumenthal to be credible, there needs to be much greater American pressure on the government of Israel to conduct itself in a far more civilized manner domestically within its own borders, however you might wish to define them. The problem is that the policies of the Netanyahu government are really the greatest long term security threat to the wellbeing of the state of Israel, and Europe's actions are but a symptom of that.
30
The real motive for the EU's actions is anti-Semitism, bald and plain. The professor's arguments are clear that there are so many other countries, far worse, with far less legitimacy to explain its actions, yet Israel is the EU's primary focus of this new labeling law. Why?
5
History considered your feelings are quite understandable, but Blumenthal suggests that it is a consistent practice of the government of Israel to attribute such motives to all its Arab citizens to better motivate its citizens to treat their Arab fellow citizens most harshly, and beyond that to pursue policies that encourage the departure of Arabs from their homeland so as to better assure higher Arab birthrates do not result in a majority of non-Jewish citizens. The accusation of others being anti semitic is a powerful way to distract thinking and compassionate Jews from the facts.
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel's incentives to take international law seriously."
That was intended as humor, right?
That was intended as humor, right?
72
For I short while I too was thinking it was an attempt at black humor, but upon rereading the op-ed the author seems to be serious.
The whole op-ed is nothing but the mad ravings of a poor deluded fool thinking that Israel is the good guy in this scenario.
The whole op-ed is nothing but the mad ravings of a poor deluded fool thinking that Israel is the good guy in this scenario.
I'm sympathetic to the Israelis to some degree. One can not stand by and be attacked daily. However their heavy handedness and refusal to stop expanding into Palestinian Territories is nothing more than thumbing the United Nations and all of the civilized world. They behave like babies when they don't get their way, pulling tantrums, accusing people of being ant semitic, overriding the President of United States and accepting an invitation from a lunatic fringe who seeks to undermine him. These are friends? The people of Israel may be peace loving and decent, but it's leaders are pushy, coarse and disliked the world, over. Europe has become fed up with Israel. Peace through example would be wonderful. The Palestinian leaders are as bad. Their people suffer more greatly from their actions than that of Israel. Who can blame countries who have simply given up on the Middle East?
30
I quote from your comment
The Palestinian leaders are as bad. Their people suffer more greatly from their actions than that of Israel. Who can blame countries who have simply given up on the Middle East?
Palestinian leaders are not that great indeed. They bring their own people to harm through educating them to hate and attack Israelis from when they small children. It is a form of indoctrination to anti semitism. Would you help them if they did the same to you? Are you aware of how many Palestinians, even those who attack and harm Israeli non combatants through incitement to violence are treated for their injuries by Israeli hospitals? or maybe you just don't want to know
The Palestinian leaders are as bad. Their people suffer more greatly from their actions than that of Israel. Who can blame countries who have simply given up on the Middle East?
Palestinian leaders are not that great indeed. They bring their own people to harm through educating them to hate and attack Israelis from when they small children. It is a form of indoctrination to anti semitism. Would you help them if they did the same to you? Are you aware of how many Palestinians, even those who attack and harm Israeli non combatants through incitement to violence are treated for their injuries by Israeli hospitals? or maybe you just don't want to know
8
@ Gersh Oh no, you've got it all wrong. The entire world wants to know and outside of anti-semites, decent people of all cultures, Jewish as well, are fed up with an heavy handed, rich, educated power like Israel using this as pretext to grab land. Their excuse, bombing neighborhoods as a solution to root out 1 terrorist who killed an Israeli. 100 civilian Palestinians, babies an children included die for each Israeli SOLIDIER! I'm sorry if you have a political agenda that has imprisoned you, but I see it clearly, from a humanitarian point of view, without prejudice. Exactly the tantrum I spoke of in my first opinion is what you are exhibiting. Anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti semite. And they wonder why they are so disliked. Stand me in front of Palestinians and much of the Arab world and I'l, have plenty to criticize about them as well. Yet at least they can hide behind autocratic , religious governing bodies. Israel is a democracy, or claims to be one. Here's where the great disgrace lies.
The labeling problem could be solved 'today,' if Israel would leave the West Bank, an area of land they acquired in a war. War is not now, nor will it ever be, a suitable method of acquiring land. The EU is right in this action, they should however state why they are doing it, rather than beating around the bush.
61
"War is not now, nor will it ever be, a suitable method of acquiring land"
I would refer you to every modern country on the planet. But let's start with US. The natives gave the land to the colonies as a present I suppose?
I would refer you to every modern country on the planet. But let's start with US. The natives gave the land to the colonies as a present I suppose?
4
How did it work out when Israel unilaterally left Gaza? Hamas took over, misery for the people with no human rights there, and missiles were sent toward Israeli towns daily for several years. No thank you card from the PLO nor from Europe..
7
And the illegal immigration problem from Mexico would be solved "today" if the US would leave southern California and Texas! After all, war is not, nor will it ever be, a suitable method of acquiring land! Unless, of course, it suits you...
4
Illegally seized, held, and developed land based on some mythical god given right compared to illegal labeling? Give us a break. Hard to believe a thinking person would try to push this garbage off on NY Times readers. Then again, this type of propaganda has been very effective in shaping America's public opinion at large, so why not see if it floats with us.
83
It was based on self defence. Israel was not the aggressor in 1948. They were attack by nations that outnumbered them by millions. Would you have just laid down and allowed yourself to be slaughtered by those who desired to "push you into the sea"? as they threatened? I doubt that
7
And what did they do? They attacked the defenseless Palestinians and ethnically cleansed and wiped out entire villages.
1
Chris N writes, "Illegally seized, held, and developed land based on some mythical god given right compared to illegal labeling?"
Israel acquired the West bank in a _defensive_ war in which several powers were trying to destroy the nascent state. What was Israel supposed to do? "Well, it was a fun war with you trying to destroy us for no good reason, so here's your land back. Have a nice day."
When Egypt made peace with Israel, they got back the Sinai peninsula. It's time for the Palestinians to do the same.
Israel acquired the West bank in a _defensive_ war in which several powers were trying to destroy the nascent state. What was Israel supposed to do? "Well, it was a fun war with you trying to destroy us for no good reason, so here's your land back. Have a nice day."
When Egypt made peace with Israel, they got back the Sinai peninsula. It's time for the Palestinians to do the same.
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel's incentives to take international law seriously" <-- Yeah, that's the problem! And Israel has already not been taking international law seriously.
52
While reading this it was hard to tell who was doing more cherry-picking: Mr. Kontorovich or the EU. I don't doubt that the EU has been inconsistent in its standards; as a union it is still relatively young, and its members have their own histories of acting as an occupying force and violating basic human rights that is still in living memory, so its principles are still evolving. Spain is historically complicit in the situation in Western Sahara, and Turkey is a European country, so it's not surprising that the EU can view and judge Israel's crimes from a different perspective than Morocco's or Turkey's, and if they start with Israel then they can establish the legal mechanism to look inward and apply the standards more consistently. In any case using labeling to draw attention to violations of international law should be encouraged - and it has to start somewhere. Whoever is singled out first is always going to cry double standards, but that doesn't mean they're innocent.
I'm not naive: I'm sure there are many in the EU that are using this to express their own bias against Israel. But it's just as clear that Mr. Kontorovich writes this article from the perspective of a supporter of Israel, not as an objective law professor. Product labeling is not a boycott and it's certainly not an act of violence comparable to what Israel has inflicted as an occupying force. They are not equivalent; we're talking about human lives, not goal posts; this is not a game.
I'm not naive: I'm sure there are many in the EU that are using this to express their own bias against Israel. But it's just as clear that Mr. Kontorovich writes this article from the perspective of a supporter of Israel, not as an objective law professor. Product labeling is not a boycott and it's certainly not an act of violence comparable to what Israel has inflicted as an occupying force. They are not equivalent; we're talking about human lives, not goal posts; this is not a game.
175
You write, "But it's just as clear that Mr. Kontorovich writes this article from the perspective of a supporter of Israel, not as an objective law professor." On what basis do you say that? Are you suggesting that he could not have arrived at a conclusion that is supportive of Israel, after undertaking thorough research and applying one's academic knowledge and expertise to the question, without himself being a supporter of Israel?
3
Just for the record. Turkey is not part of the EU, nor is it culturally a European nation.
1
How much do you want to be that this ISN'T the start of similar actions against other "illegal occupations" by the EU? Really, they will do something similar against Spain and Turkey? How about China and Tibet?
Please don't be so naive.
Please don't be so naive.
4
When I 'consume' an article in the NYT , that area is universally described as "the west bank" "Israeli occupied territories" " "disputed area" , but it's never described as Israel.
Pretending at this point in time, that it is Israel, does not legally make it so. Thus, the Europeans have a valid point.
There is one solution to this: Restart (with conviction) the peace process, and settle once and for all, where the real border lies.
Pretending at this point in time, that it is Israel, does not legally make it so. Thus, the Europeans have a valid point.
There is one solution to this: Restart (with conviction) the peace process, and settle once and for all, where the real border lies.
36
I make sure that my dog food and pet treats are not made in China. I look for and avoid clothing labels from the countries that treat their workers poorly. Labeling is more than a political statement, it is a consumer choice for many reasons, reasons the WTO doesn't even recognize. Give the consumers the information they want.
41
“Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously”
No, it has exactly the required effect of hitting Israel in it pocketbook. As right or wrong, correct or incorrect, legal or illegal as this labelling decision might be the frustration is Israel’s continuing settlements on the West Bank. Until recently there was at least a semblance of a peace process, unfortunately in recent years that process is all but gone with Netanyahu stating quite openly Israel is not going to withdraw.
Israel claims there is no peace process because they don’t have a partner for peace; what doesn’t follow from that is to continue to build settlements in the West Bank. The occupation is one thing, settlements quite another.
Israel may think that one somehow follows the other, no one else does.
No, it has exactly the required effect of hitting Israel in it pocketbook. As right or wrong, correct or incorrect, legal or illegal as this labelling decision might be the frustration is Israel’s continuing settlements on the West Bank. Until recently there was at least a semblance of a peace process, unfortunately in recent years that process is all but gone with Netanyahu stating quite openly Israel is not going to withdraw.
Israel claims there is no peace process because they don’t have a partner for peace; what doesn’t follow from that is to continue to build settlements in the West Bank. The occupation is one thing, settlements quite another.
Israel may think that one somehow follows the other, no one else does.
52
The decision is absolutely not about hitting Israel in the pocketbook. It applies to about 0.1% of Israel's exports to the EU. It's clearly political, for the reasons outlined in the piece.
6
Indeed, 'restarting the peace process' has become the catch phrase whenever Israel needs international support of its goals. Do they honestly think they can continue to bamboozle the rest of the world and always get their way? When is this going to end? For sure labeling is a start.
3
The author is correct on the fine print. The EU and for that matter the UN, and the world is inconsistent in the way it approaches different conflicts. That however is not the main story. The repeated attempts by Israel apologists to make it the main story is a cheap attempt to hide the fact Israel occupies and subjugates a Palestinian population. The contrast between Morocco, Turkey, and Israel is that only the latter wants to be seen and sees itself as a civilised western democracy where human rights are protected. That it most certainly is not.
56
Is Israel's "cheap attempt" to hide the occupation and appear as a western democracy the basis for the EU singling them out and not citing the Morocco and Turkey?
4
Those that care about Israel's long term future cannot let this bogus rational that being anti-Settlement is either Anti-Israeli or Anti-Semetic stand.
37
How should we push back against "bad actors" in the world then? What would be an acceptable way to help stop these incursions? Israel is slowly isolating itself from its friends and those neutral to its policies, through hard-line tactics. Many of us in the United States love Israel, but don't love its treatment of the Palestinians.
26
"It is a legal violation in its own right."
By all means Israel can try to win legal vindication either in Europe or at the W.T.O. If it can't then - well, I guess it's legal. Any bets who will win?
By all means Israel can try to win legal vindication either in Europe or at the W.T.O. If it can't then - well, I guess it's legal. Any bets who will win?
10
The basic flaw with this Professor's argument lies in his assumption, as asserted in his article, that the situation of Israel/Palestine is directly analogous to others. It is not.
Western South Sahara is listed by the UN on the list of Non-Self Governing Territories (ex - Spain). Northern Cyprus is part of Cyprus - a UN and EU member state. Palestine is a non-member state observer of the UN, under military occupation by a UN member state engaged in actively transferring its population there in contravention of the 4th Geneva Convention - an international convention that this UN member state has specifically acceded to (and that convention also constitutes customary international law).
Is the Professor suggesting that the United States should now just accept all goods made in Crimea to be labeled "Made in Russia" - really?
He talks about WTO protections but neglects to mention that the EU extends Most Favored Nation status to all goods from both Israel and Palestine. Nothing in the WTO trade rules permits mislabelling. If Israel truly thinks it does then, as a WTO member, it need only bring a case there. But Israel knows it does not and so does not bring such a case.
Interestingly the EU does not permit commerce with Northern Cyprus no matter how products are labeled. If the EU were ever to follow the Professor's flawed logic then it should also prohibit all commerce with the settlements.
Honest labeling should present no problems for honorable people.
Western South Sahara is listed by the UN on the list of Non-Self Governing Territories (ex - Spain). Northern Cyprus is part of Cyprus - a UN and EU member state. Palestine is a non-member state observer of the UN, under military occupation by a UN member state engaged in actively transferring its population there in contravention of the 4th Geneva Convention - an international convention that this UN member state has specifically acceded to (and that convention also constitutes customary international law).
Is the Professor suggesting that the United States should now just accept all goods made in Crimea to be labeled "Made in Russia" - really?
He talks about WTO protections but neglects to mention that the EU extends Most Favored Nation status to all goods from both Israel and Palestine. Nothing in the WTO trade rules permits mislabelling. If Israel truly thinks it does then, as a WTO member, it need only bring a case there. But Israel knows it does not and so does not bring such a case.
Interestingly the EU does not permit commerce with Northern Cyprus no matter how products are labeled. If the EU were ever to follow the Professor's flawed logic then it should also prohibit all commerce with the settlements.
Honest labeling should present no problems for honorable people.
206
I suggest that this writer consider the history and options that were available to Israel when the Palestinian problem took shape. Israel suffered an existentially threatening attack at it's inception. Included in the UN resolution was a separate Palestinian state, which the Palestinians and the Arab neighbor countries declined to form. Instead, the Palestinians have been used as pawns by the Arabs on the world stage. I do believe that Israel could have done much better over the last 30 years to handle the situation. However, those who think that this is a simple problem or that the US would have done any better are full of bologna.
5
That is a large assumption that the parties are honorable, from my perspective they are not honorable. This is a festering problem, unfortunately it impacts people in a visceral way. We all know what is correct behavior, unfortunately neither of these parties behaves in a correct fashion.
1
Whether Israelis living in the territories violate the 4th Geneva convention is a matter of debate. The US has never regarded the settlements as "illegal" - and for well established reasons of International law. Numerous legal scholars agree.
5
Will Europe require Russia to mark things made in Crimea as "Made in Occupied Crimea"?
What about Hong Kong - "China Settlement" products?
Everything out of Latin America and South America should be labeled "Spanish Settlement" or "Portugese Settlement" products.
What about Hong Kong - "China Settlement" products?
Everything out of Latin America and South America should be labeled "Spanish Settlement" or "Portugese Settlement" products.
21
Nice attempt at obfuscating the issue. You can say anything else that you want, or claim victim hood for Israel, but this article is clearly siding with oppression, rather than any real legal ruling.
23
We are sanctioning Russia and its economy took a massive hit. Are we sanctioning Israel? I do believe we are increasing the massive checks we write to Israel instead. That should stop, and we should sanction Israel if we are to be fair about things.
Since the Geneva conventions following WWII, it is now illegal to colonize land. Settlements in Latin America predate that.
Since the Geneva conventions following WWII, it is now illegal to colonize land. Settlements in Latin America predate that.
8
EU bans all Crimea products outright. Do you want them to do the same for all products from West Bank?
4
These policies are not anti-Israel, they are pro-Geneva Conventions:
"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
156
So, North Vietnam violated that when it occupied South Vietnam.
5
Two responses: out of context. the 4th convention is not written to apply to a situation like the one in the West Bank. Read up on the context of it's writing.
Second, as the last legal "owner" of the land in the West Bank was the UN (British) Mandate for Palestine, and Jews were allowed to settle there under the Mandate, a strong case can be made that that legal status still exists.
For that reason the US doesn't refer to the settlements as "illegal" - because it has never seen them as illegal, only not helpful. A not small number of legal scholars agrees.
Second, as the last legal "owner" of the land in the West Bank was the UN (British) Mandate for Palestine, and Jews were allowed to settle there under the Mandate, a strong case can be made that that legal status still exists.
For that reason the US doesn't refer to the settlements as "illegal" - because it has never seen them as illegal, only not helpful. A not small number of legal scholars agrees.
3
Vietnam was a single country till the French left. It separated in a political dispute and was at war with each other till the norther half won, similar to our civil war. East and West Germans were one people separated because of outside forces, but one people. Israelites and Palestanians are not one people. One is subjugated by the other which is a no-no since WWll.
So no Vietnam did not violate, nor will the Koreans if the merge.
So no Vietnam did not violate, nor will the Koreans if the merge.
4
The labelling requirement is not a great approach but what can one do to stop Israel's sanctioning of new settlements - a significant impediment to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian problem? How about the US subtract $100M from our foreign aid to Israel for each expansion or new settlement? Or add $100M each time an Israeli is killed or rockets are launched into Israel?
21
Um, do we also charge Israel every time they kill an innocent Palestinian? Fine with me, but your formulation left that out.
3
You would have to define what is the definintion of building a settlement. As it stand now, if a Jew in Maale Adumim (a full sized Jewish city contiguous with Jerusalem) adds a new bedroom for his diabled monther in law, that is considered adding a settlement. Its absurd!!!!!!! The number of actual new communities arising in the Judea/Samaria has been lower under Netanyahu than under any prior prime minister. This is not about settlements. Its about Jewish people living unmolested in their own land. The Europeans should chafe under these labeling rules given their horrible history of treatment of the Jews but history is just coming around to repeat itself. Its just a matter of time till buying one of these labelled products subjects you to ostracism, and violence. Europe is going down!!!!
7
Agreed.
Utter nonsense in light of the facts on the ground. Israel restricts building materials as 80,000 homes in Gaza lie in ruin from the biennial IDF slaughter in that territory. Israel kills people in the occupied territories almost daily. Not only should the products be list as to their true origin, but sanctions should also be placed upon Israel and exports should be banned until the Israelis get serious about withdrawing from the occupied territories. They cannot have it both ways by citing certain laws and violating others. The international community, including the US views 1967 borders as legitimate. Any products made in Israel, within those borders, get Israeli labels.
190
Israel left Gaza and the Palestinians made a sham of it. The settlements do not impede peace. The Palestinians do.
6
But there is plenty of building materials for Hamas tunnels, right! So those ruined homes could be rebuilt if that was a priority!
6
S. Nillissen, You say, "The international community, including the US views 1967 borders as legitimate" but those borders were not accepted by the international Arab community then, and are still not accepted by many or most Arabs, including Hamas & Hezbolla.
4
The arguments proposed by the editorial are alarmingly weak, and therefore presumably disingenuous. Unlike Palestine, Western Sahara and Northern Cyprus are not recognized as legitimate universally throughout the EU. Other examples include Transnistria, Eastern Ukraine, etc. Obviously, in each case, sovereignty is unclear, but the argument that this ruling is unfair or discriminatory is simply false. So, too, is the argument that Israel is the only democracy in th Middle East--after all, do all "citizens" in the West Bank, Gaza, and Golan get to vote on Israel's affairs?
In the end, correct labeling will only bring prosperity and sunshine to Israeli commerce and diplomatic standing. Look at "Made in Taiwan." Why not "Made in Bethlehem"? If Israel is not careful, they will spark a boycott not of goods from Occupied Territories, but of "Made in Israel" altogether.
In the end, correct labeling will only bring prosperity and sunshine to Israeli commerce and diplomatic standing. Look at "Made in Taiwan." Why not "Made in Bethlehem"? If Israel is not careful, they will spark a boycott not of goods from Occupied Territories, but of "Made in Israel" altogether.
139
Some of Steven's argument seems specious. The Turkish invasion of Cyprus in the 1970's was just an outrageous territory grab and unlike Israel's occupation of the West Bank it had, and has no state security purpose. Yet, there is no EU boycott of Turkey.
8
The solution is simple. If products are imported from occupied territories of ANY nation they should be labeled as such. Personally, I'd want to know if the products I'm buying are from those areas.
44
The alleged concern for consistency rings hollow--does Israel benefit from any special treatment that Morocco doesn't receive? Are there full blown sanctions leveled against countries like Russia? Do people writing such articles do a meticulous examination of the treatment of every country which interacts with Europe, receiving either benefits or sanctions or the dreaded labeling of a few products, or do they act like lawyers and cherry pick their examples? And what about the US? Are such writers concerned over the double standards which work in Israel's favor? I imagine the people of Gaza would laugh bitterly at so much concern over labeling, when they live under a blockade which has destroyed their economy--fishermen can be shot for plying their trade. Palestinians go completely unmentioned here--evidently moral consistency means nothing when it is a question of their most basic rights. As for concern that labeling reduces Israel's incentives to take international law seriously, this has to be another joke. Israel expects and demands special treatment as an alleged democracy no matter what it does to the Palestinians whose lives it controls.
69
The only reason there is a blockade on Gaza (by Israel and Egypt) is that the Hamas government dismantled the security arrangements setup by the borders by the PA and Israel, and then starting using Gaza as a launching pad for rockets into Israel.
Even under Hamas, as long as the security arrangements with the PA at the Gaza borders continued, there was no blockade. Hamas has only itself to blame for the blockade.
The solution is simple: End the attacks against Israel, and return to the security arrangements that existed previously. Then the blockade will end.
Even under Hamas, as long as the security arrangements with the PA at the Gaza borders continued, there was no blockade. Hamas has only itself to blame for the blockade.
The solution is simple: End the attacks against Israel, and return to the security arrangements that existed previously. Then the blockade will end.
6
Comparing the geopolitical situation in Morocco with Israel just tells me that this article is a PR campaign initiated by third parties in order to broadcast their dislike of the EU decision. What kind of products are exported from Morocco to EU that orginiated from the sahara? Fish and Phosphate. No Sahrawi was producing those commodities before (not even Spanish colinials when they controlled that part of Morocco...) so no revenue was hijacked from the local populations if anything those exports have helped creating jobs and building infrastructure that benifts everyone locally. The story, I am afraid, is different in Israel where land is scarce and Palestinians are way poorer than their fellow Israelis.
61
This game is laughable. Israel brings some economic success to a settlement, the world objects, Israel leaves, decay and chaos ensue, and the world blames Israel for the decay and chaos. Who's crazy?
122
@ gamby Not exactly. Israel without the United Sates would be not be an economic success. A billion dollars or more would be needed to defend themselves, and many countries that buy Israeli products would outright ban them without threat of repercussions from the U.S. I'm not anti-Israeli, but these are facts sir.
14
Poor Israel, such a victim...so persecuted...even as it occupies millions of people for nearly a half-century. That game is laughable too. If one could find such things funny.
37
You left ought all the land confiscations, and killings of the innocents.
You might forget: but the victiims seeking justice, and the rest of the world looking on, remember the dead.
If you want Peace,
work for Justice.
Remember the Dead.
You might forget: but the victiims seeking justice, and the rest of the world looking on, remember the dead.
If you want Peace,
work for Justice.
Remember the Dead.
14
The term anti-Israel presumes that opposing Israeli settlements is the same as opposing Israel. This is a part of the demonization of critics of Israeli policies used by some in Israel to divert attention from unjustifiable Israeli government stances.
379
Amen. Anti illegal settlement doesn't equal anti Israel.
12
Well stated. Much of the most pro-Israel press in the world comes from right here in the US. Even in Israel, the people have a far more critical tone and allowable level of expression when voicing criticism of Israel's policies. Here in the US, it's become almost impossible to have a debate, let alone an honest debate, about Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. As always, the slightest negativity is immediately labled "antisemitic" - and criticism is immediately shut down.
We help pay for Israel's security and stability. If Israel and the GOTP both had their way, we would now be engaged in a brutal and costly war with Iran, a war serving no interest of ours, or anyone else's in the world, except Israel. Make no mistake: such a war would be far more costly in lives and equipment than Iraq and Afghanistan both. Iran can bite back, with some of the most modern and up to date weaponry and defensive positioning in the world. Do we want to lose ships, carriers, and many thousands of lives? If so, fight iran.
What would Israel give us for our great sacrifice? Nothing but more criticism! Even mercenaries get paid, we would not be. We could end up in a nuclear war with the increased raised tensions in the region and the world, all for the sake of protecting Israel, and satisfying the "End Of Days" oriented neocons, who proudly use the Bible as their foreign policy playbook.
Considering the unique war related risks to the US, criticism of Israel is more than justified!
We help pay for Israel's security and stability. If Israel and the GOTP both had their way, we would now be engaged in a brutal and costly war with Iran, a war serving no interest of ours, or anyone else's in the world, except Israel. Make no mistake: such a war would be far more costly in lives and equipment than Iraq and Afghanistan both. Iran can bite back, with some of the most modern and up to date weaponry and defensive positioning in the world. Do we want to lose ships, carriers, and many thousands of lives? If so, fight iran.
What would Israel give us for our great sacrifice? Nothing but more criticism! Even mercenaries get paid, we would not be. We could end up in a nuclear war with the increased raised tensions in the region and the world, all for the sake of protecting Israel, and satisfying the "End Of Days" oriented neocons, who proudly use the Bible as their foreign policy playbook.
Considering the unique war related risks to the US, criticism of Israel is more than justified!
1
It called Reflective Zionism aka generational indoctrination.
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously: If the goal posts can be moved, there is less reason to play the game."
Israel has no respect for the United Nations, and nearly zero respect for international law. And if any country moves goalposts, it's Israel with her multitude of illegal settlements. I find the EU's labeling demand perfectly justified. Everybody in my opinion has a fundamental right to know where the products they are buying actually originate. And if other countries are not held to the same standards, they should be, albeit perhaps their conduct is not as egregious.
Israel has no respect for the United Nations, and nearly zero respect for international law. And if any country moves goalposts, it's Israel with her multitude of illegal settlements. I find the EU's labeling demand perfectly justified. Everybody in my opinion has a fundamental right to know where the products they are buying actually originate. And if other countries are not held to the same standards, they should be, albeit perhaps their conduct is not as egregious.
236
and no respect for Real Americans, no respect for Obama.......but, still, we have a bunch of politicians with no guts, not stomach to stand up for our interests, being controlled by big big money..
10
Carolyn, you have it all wrong. The United Nations has no respect for israel and applies standards in uneven and distorted ways with them. How can Israel respect that? It is crazy making. I'm not saying that all the policies of the Israeli government are correct. Nor are the policies of any other government. But I don't think that the Palestinians are innocent bystanders who are totally being occupied by Israel. Abbas and others have said that they want two states side by side and both should be Palestinian. They don't want Israel to exist. How does one live on an even playing field with a group out to destroy you? And why should Israel be penalized by the EU for trying to survive an existential threat.
3
Randy, you are still not addressing the real issue which is Israeli occupation and settlements on Palestinian land. Stealing land has nothing to do with Israeli survival. Theft is theft.
The author cannot maintain that the Israeli occupation of the West Bank is not an occupation, but they draw comparisons to what he admits are Moroccan and Turkish occupations of conquered lands.
If this is an illegitimate loophole in European Union trade policy, than it is violation of international law by Israel.
Clearly, those of us who support peace in Israel think that the nation should aspire to more than to be in the same boat as Morocco and Turkey.
If this is an illegitimate loophole in European Union trade policy, than it is violation of international law by Israel.
Clearly, those of us who support peace in Israel think that the nation should aspire to more than to be in the same boat as Morocco and Turkey.
164
You seem to miss the point of the Op-Ed - it is not comparing Israel to other countires, it is contrasting internal EU standards relating to different countries.
Of course all supporters of peace in Israel, both on the left and the right, expect Israel to behave according to a higher standard than the other countries named, and of course it does.
The question is what legal basis there is for the EU to behave hypocritically. Do you hold them to such a low standard?
Of course all supporters of peace in Israel, both on the left and the right, expect Israel to behave according to a higher standard than the other countries named, and of course it does.
The question is what legal basis there is for the EU to behave hypocritically. Do you hold them to such a low standard?
11
"Clearly, those of us who support peace in Israel think that the nation should aspire to more than to be in the same boat as Morocco and Turkey."
But you have no problem treating Israel differently than Morocco and Turkey.
You provide a peculiar framework, where on one hand you vilify Israel, yet for some reason demand it satisfy a higher moral standard than any other country.
Cognitive dissonance much?
But you have no problem treating Israel differently than Morocco and Turkey.
You provide a peculiar framework, where on one hand you vilify Israel, yet for some reason demand it satisfy a higher moral standard than any other country.
Cognitive dissonance much?
4
Israel should wait until they notice which countries demand the labeling. And then retaliate labeling their products, and let the israelí consumer take their own choices.
10
Wow, that will teach them. The all-powerful "israeli consumer" can bring any international business to its knees.
7
and perhaps, American voters should do the same with politicians controlled by outsiders and their money
9
Am I to conclude that Western Sahara is not a valid country because it has not been endorsed with its own "Made in Western Sahara" label? Mr. Kontorovich's argument is basically the same argument heard over an over again in elementary schools around the world, "Look! Jimmy and Bobby are both getting away with it! Why can't I?"
The argument about taking international laws seriously is odd. Nuclear weapons anybody? Illegal settlement construction? How about the tortured definition of democracy? Don't think that other countries haven't taken notice of these flagrant dismissals of law and language.
The argument about taking international laws seriously is odd. Nuclear weapons anybody? Illegal settlement construction? How about the tortured definition of democracy? Don't think that other countries haven't taken notice of these flagrant dismissals of law and language.
139
Nuclear weapons? Israel (supposedly) has them, and if true she has them quite legally. It's only illegal to have nuclear weapons and certain nuclear technology when you sign a treaty under which you pledge not to have them.
If Israel has nuclear weapons, they are no less legal than those of the US, France, the UK, and Russia.
How is the Israeli definition of democracy more tortured than Western countries which have official government religions? Israel actually doesn't, by the way. Or those in which minority members are regularly discriminated against, shot, imprisoned, and sentenced to death in numbers all out of proportion to their level in the population? And yes, I'm talking about the US.
If Israel has nuclear weapons, they are no less legal than those of the US, France, the UK, and Russia.
How is the Israeli definition of democracy more tortured than Western countries which have official government religions? Israel actually doesn't, by the way. Or those in which minority members are regularly discriminated against, shot, imprisoned, and sentenced to death in numbers all out of proportion to their level in the population? And yes, I'm talking about the US.
5
LBJr writes:
" Mr. Kontorovich's argument is basically the same argument heard over an over again in elementary schools around the world, "Look! Jimmy and Bobby are both getting away with it! Why can't I?"
The problem is that it is _always_ Israel that gets the short end of the stick. If a minority groups says ""Look! Jimmy and Bobby are both getting away with it! Why can't I?"", would you issue the same complaint?
" Mr. Kontorovich's argument is basically the same argument heard over an over again in elementary schools around the world, "Look! Jimmy and Bobby are both getting away with it! Why can't I?"
The problem is that it is _always_ Israel that gets the short end of the stick. If a minority groups says ""Look! Jimmy and Bobby are both getting away with it! Why can't I?"", would you issue the same complaint?
Do Israel's brutality and intransigence deserve international criticism?
41
Yes.
6
Yes!
7
Of course!
5
Europe did the right thing. It's about time other nations stood up to Israel and all the violations it is has committed. As far as anti semitism goes, you know where you can put that. That word has lost all its meaning and has become a convenient scapegoat to silence anyone who dares to critisize Israeli policy. No government is immune to criticism. Even Israel. The world will no longer be held hostage to an event that happened 60 "years ago that has enabled Israel to get away with so much. Israel is the most offensive form of statism
82
It's not "anti-semitic" to question Likud's policies; over 76% of Israeli voters rejected Likud in the last election.
We can support Israel by looking at its long-term viability, instead of just Bibi's political career; and that means doing what we can to promote a 2-state solution, and blocking further settlements in the West Bank.
We can support Israel by looking at its long-term viability, instead of just Bibi's political career; and that means doing what we can to promote a 2-state solution, and blocking further settlements in the West Bank.
14
If the Golan Heights was still part of Syria it would have been additional slaughter house 4 humans where they will b killed not in the not pain inflicting way as cattles enjoy in central slaughter houses. The main thing is point not who runs a domain but how humanely and wisely it is run.Palestinians want to run things in Jerusalem but we have seen how Historical places get destroyed taking with them part of Human History's past in Palmyra,Syria.In the hands of the right kind of people places like Palmyra will be well preserved as UNESCO recognized Cultural Heritage cites and become a draw to Tourists and a boost to the local economy. Before dolling out more domain to an administration which didn't adequately govern to make its subjects life flourish in all rounded way is neither prudent or urgent. Besides The Pal Admin has to show that it can reign on its people so that they don't engage in stabbings, ramming cars on pedestrians, random killings in train stations trying to make all aspects of going about ones business in a modern society unsafe.This injects extremely unhealthy " resistance struggle" means precedence.Hence, rushing to concluding that Palestinians would have run all these places they claim to be part of their future state in a way that just qualitatively elevate the lives of the Palestinians with out being disruptive or destabilizing to their neighbors is premature.They have to generate confidence by the way they run things that r their protectorate 1st.TMD.
17
It's really interesting to see that "Anti Semitism" in Europe is as alive and well as it was in the 30's.
The Hitlerites were able to rise because of it and, it seems, their back at it again in one form or another.
Shame on the European Union to even countenance putting such "labels" on anything. Perhaps they should demand that each barrel of oil shipped from the Mid-East be labeled "Approved By DAESH/HAMAS/AL QAEDA/THE TALIBAN/HEZBOLLAH" in accordance with their own 'guidelines'.
The Hitlerites were able to rise because of it and, it seems, their back at it again in one form or another.
Shame on the European Union to even countenance putting such "labels" on anything. Perhaps they should demand that each barrel of oil shipped from the Mid-East be labeled "Approved By DAESH/HAMAS/AL QAEDA/THE TALIBAN/HEZBOLLAH" in accordance with their own 'guidelines'.
32
Apparently you haven't noticed anti-semitism in the US: Michele Bachman just called for a mass conversion...
Opposing settlements in the West Bank as impediements to peace is not "anti-semitism."
Opposing Bibi's short-sighted policies is not "anti-semitism," since more than 76% of Israeli voters rejected them in the last election.
Don't confuse an issue more than necessary.
Opposing settlements in the West Bank as impediements to peace is not "anti-semitism."
Opposing Bibi's short-sighted policies is not "anti-semitism," since more than 76% of Israeli voters rejected them in the last election.
Don't confuse an issue more than necessary.
24
Being anti-settlement does not make one anti-Semitic. You claiming so does not make it true.
It sure is easier to hurl ad hominems than to think...
It sure is easier to hurl ad hominems than to think...
While the European Union is taking measures to mark West Bank the French Supreme Court has been doing the exact opposite:
http://jcpa.org/will-the-french-anti-boycott-law-lead-to-a-pan-european/
http://jcpa.org/will-the-french-anti-boycott-law-lead-to-a-pan-european/
5
If the W.T.O. allows products to be labeled as produced in the countries which acquired territories in illegal land-grabs, the W.T.O. rule must change. Countries in violation of international law should not be allowed to take trade advantage of their crimes. Furthermore, speaking as a consumer, I have a right to know whether the wine for sale was made in Israel, or whether it was made from grapes grown in land razed by illegal Israeli settlers from illegal settlements on Palestinian land where Palestinian olive groves used to be.
324
how can it be am anti Israel measure if it is an by Israel occupied part of a foreign country ?
12
The United States stole Texas from Mexico. Want to label it?
13
Besides that fact that sometimes I´d approve of giving Texas back to Mexico, are you suggesting that because, for example, we had slavery, therefore we can´t criticize slavery anymore?
16
Actually, it was California and other more western territories. But your point is well taken. We should apply 1840s standards to this situation.
3
Mr Kontorovich writes:"Under the W.T.O.’s nondiscrimination requirement, it is impermissible to apply trade rules and restrictions to some member countries and not to others".
Does that mean the US is breaking WTO rules by sanctioning Russia for occupying Crimea, while doing business with Israel, which has been occupying Palestinian lands since 1967?
Does that mean the US is breaking WTO rules by sanctioning Russia for occupying Crimea, while doing business with Israel, which has been occupying Palestinian lands since 1967?
257
Title Holder, that would certainly make an interesting debate question!
3
Yes, the US is. But the US has a larger military budget than Russia so we do have to be "realistic".
Of course the EU should be consistent in its labeling demands. That doesn't change the fact that the new requirements for "Made in Israel" are a good thing. Israel lost its way with ongoing settlement of the West Bank and should be pressured to stop it and reverse course.
For those of us who support Israel but oppose the settlements, the only alternative has been the BDS movement which is affiliated with genuinely anti-Semitic organizations. Labeling products "Made in Occupied Territories" enables a precise and fair way to register opposition by means of targeted economic boycott. It is a wonderful and appropriate form of non-violent protest and will prove to be far more effective than sickening and misdirected knives and bombs.
For those of us who support Israel but oppose the settlements, the only alternative has been the BDS movement which is affiliated with genuinely anti-Semitic organizations. Labeling products "Made in Occupied Territories" enables a precise and fair way to register opposition by means of targeted economic boycott. It is a wonderful and appropriate form of non-violent protest and will prove to be far more effective than sickening and misdirected knives and bombs.
86
And should the labeling cause the offending Israeli firms to close, it is Palestinians who lose their jobs with wages that are twice as high and include health insurance.
3
Where to begin?
How about, " ....reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously....".
Israel occupies a significant piece of Palestinian property and continues to build settlements in direct violation of international law.
How serious is that?
The numerous examples cited in other comments, other than Tibet, simply reflect the shifting borders of ill defined nation-states created by nineteenth century politicians and map makers. How much of Ukraine is or was Russia?
The borders of Israel, however, are defined by a deliberate, twentieth century international treaty creating the state of Israel out of already inhabited areas of Palestine.
The land they now occupy was conquered in a war against a collection of ill equipped, incompetently led, uncoordinated, primitive tribes who were insanely intent upon driving a bunch of foreign shepherds into the sea.
In the words of Doctor Phil, how is that working out for you, PLO?
On the other hand, victory in conflict does not legalize usurpation of land and that is exactly what is going on today in the occupied territories.
People outside the borders of Israel, as legally defined by international law, are being displaced from their ancestral homes to make way for Jewish settlements.
And that is about as un-serious as you can get.
How about, " ....reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously....".
Israel occupies a significant piece of Palestinian property and continues to build settlements in direct violation of international law.
How serious is that?
The numerous examples cited in other comments, other than Tibet, simply reflect the shifting borders of ill defined nation-states created by nineteenth century politicians and map makers. How much of Ukraine is or was Russia?
The borders of Israel, however, are defined by a deliberate, twentieth century international treaty creating the state of Israel out of already inhabited areas of Palestine.
The land they now occupy was conquered in a war against a collection of ill equipped, incompetently led, uncoordinated, primitive tribes who were insanely intent upon driving a bunch of foreign shepherds into the sea.
In the words of Doctor Phil, how is that working out for you, PLO?
On the other hand, victory in conflict does not legalize usurpation of land and that is exactly what is going on today in the occupied territories.
People outside the borders of Israel, as legally defined by international law, are being displaced from their ancestral homes to make way for Jewish settlements.
And that is about as un-serious as you can get.
55
There is no 'palestinian' property, because there were no'Palestinians' until 1964. Until 1948, there was a region called Palestine. Now it's called Israel.
9
Can we please bear in mind that Germany effectively financed the entire infrastructure and civic government of the new Jewish state, despite the fact it was itself stuggling to recover from a war of annihilation against the Soviets.
Shows how far we've come that petty labeling of products ignites such passions.
Shows how far we've come that petty labeling of products ignites such passions.
7
My heart breaks for poor Germany, Caezar.
7
It seems the EU just doesn't get it, I guess the lose of some 450 jobs of Palestinians that where employed by Sodastream was not enough? I hope that Israel decides to label all of their products as produced in the West Bank.That way the EU will boycott most electronics produced in the world today since most have technology or components produced in Israel as well as all of the newest medical procedures, and medicines.
70
I have lots of electronic products. None of them were made in Israel. Like most people, I buy things made in China, Korea or Japan.
14
Then don't get sick because you won't have the advantages of medical technology that is by and large innovations of Israel.
11
All Intel Pentium, Celeron, and Ivy Bridge computer processor chips were either developed or manufactured in Israel.
All current Microsoft operating systems should not be used since Microsoft is heavily reliant on its Israel R&D center.
Anti-virus software and personal firewalls also originated in Israel.
The algorithm (code) that’s used today for sending e-mails, was made by an Israeli who worked at the Ben-Gurion University in Be’er-Sheva in 1980.
Your mobile phone was developed in Israel, where the first mobile phones were manufactured. Mobile chip technology from a single Israeli company has now been installed in over 100 million devices.
SMS (Texting) was developed in Israel.
4G devices use an Israeli chipset.
Israeli companies invented the voice-mail system.
Many built-in and add-on applications used on Facebook are Israeli-developed. Do not watch videos on the Internet as the platform used to upload them may be from AOL and hence from an Israeli company. Do not use the Internet to search for answers to your questions as this may involve use of an Israeli-developed search engine.
Do not use Video On Demand (VOD) to watch movies as you may inadvertently see an advertisement displayed using Israeli software. Do not purchase any game devices as these are likely to use Israeli technology.
Do not read books using an e-book as this may contain Israeli technology.
Do not use data storage as it may have been developed at Israel’s storage technology R&D center.
All current Microsoft operating systems should not be used since Microsoft is heavily reliant on its Israel R&D center.
Anti-virus software and personal firewalls also originated in Israel.
The algorithm (code) that’s used today for sending e-mails, was made by an Israeli who worked at the Ben-Gurion University in Be’er-Sheva in 1980.
Your mobile phone was developed in Israel, where the first mobile phones were manufactured. Mobile chip technology from a single Israeli company has now been installed in over 100 million devices.
SMS (Texting) was developed in Israel.
4G devices use an Israeli chipset.
Israeli companies invented the voice-mail system.
Many built-in and add-on applications used on Facebook are Israeli-developed. Do not watch videos on the Internet as the platform used to upload them may be from AOL and hence from an Israeli company. Do not use the Internet to search for answers to your questions as this may involve use of an Israeli-developed search engine.
Do not use Video On Demand (VOD) to watch movies as you may inadvertently see an advertisement displayed using Israeli software. Do not purchase any game devices as these are likely to use Israeli technology.
Do not read books using an e-book as this may contain Israeli technology.
Do not use data storage as it may have been developed at Israel’s storage technology R&D center.
10
As a European, I am full of admiration for the way the Jewish diaspora has not only been given asylum by the United States, but given the freedom to continue Jewish traditions and religious practices unhindered. What troubles me is the New York Times' inexorable swing to the right in nearly all matters, including the Israel /Palestine question. I am struggling to remember the last time I saw the NYT cover Israel's ILLEGAL occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, or Netanyahu's blatant disdain for the very idea of peace negotiations.
Please NYT, you have to be the true alternative liberal voice in America's news media. All or nothing. Don't let yourselves be cowed by the right-wing loud mouth fascists who gain more of a foothold in political discourse in your country every year. Every time you concede one point to the right, they will take it and beat you round the head with it, until the day that even Jews are not safe in America.
Please NYT, you have to be the true alternative liberal voice in America's news media. All or nothing. Don't let yourselves be cowed by the right-wing loud mouth fascists who gain more of a foothold in political discourse in your country every year. Every time you concede one point to the right, they will take it and beat you round the head with it, until the day that even Jews are not safe in America.
331
Dear Mr. Forks,
How 'safe' are Jews in the Mid East? Perhaps if Israel's neighbors started negotiating with the country, exchange ambassadors with Israel and, by and large, behave like 21st Century members of the world community, we wouldn't have a Palestinian Problem.
Otherwise, after several wars where Israel's neighbors tried to eradicate them, I can see where the Jewish State might be somewhat paranoid.
The supporters of Mid East terrorism, the Saudis, the Iranians, etc. are still trying to destroy the country of Israel or, at the least, make any meaningful negotiations impossible.
The "illegal" occupation of the West Bank is a chimera; territory, including the very ground you live on in Germany, is generally taken by force and held by force, a reality that has been around since history has been written.
It's not pretty but, so far, it seems to work especially when one side won't even "recognize" the existence of the other side.
How 'safe' are Jews in the Mid East? Perhaps if Israel's neighbors started negotiating with the country, exchange ambassadors with Israel and, by and large, behave like 21st Century members of the world community, we wouldn't have a Palestinian Problem.
Otherwise, after several wars where Israel's neighbors tried to eradicate them, I can see where the Jewish State might be somewhat paranoid.
The supporters of Mid East terrorism, the Saudis, the Iranians, etc. are still trying to destroy the country of Israel or, at the least, make any meaningful negotiations impossible.
The "illegal" occupation of the West Bank is a chimera; territory, including the very ground you live on in Germany, is generally taken by force and held by force, a reality that has been around since history has been written.
It's not pretty but, so far, it seems to work especially when one side won't even "recognize" the existence of the other side.
22
The occupation of enemy territory in war, particularly in a "defensive war of necessity," is not illegal. Under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," may retain captured land, until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
The occupation of Palestinian territory is no more illegal than the post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan by the U.S., the U.K., France and the Soviet Union. Those occupations ended with negotiated peace treaties. This occupation need not be permanent, unless the Palestinians want it to be so by refusing to negotiate a peace treaty, which would include return of captured territory!
The occupation of Palestinian territory is no more illegal than the post World War II occupations of Germany and Japan by the U.S., the U.K., France and the Soviet Union. Those occupations ended with negotiated peace treaties. This occupation need not be permanent, unless the Palestinians want it to be so by refusing to negotiate a peace treaty, which would include return of captured territory!
15
"Netanyahu's blatant disdain for the very idea of peace negotiations."
This is patently FALSE. PM Netanyahu has stated repeatedly that he weill meet Abbas anywhere, any time for unconditional negotiations.
Abbas has ignored these calls for negotiation, and instead is attempting to impose a "peace" on Israel, with no Palestinian concessions, through international organizations.
The EU is fully cooperating with Abbas's strategy.
This is patently FALSE. PM Netanyahu has stated repeatedly that he weill meet Abbas anywhere, any time for unconditional negotiations.
Abbas has ignored these calls for negotiation, and instead is attempting to impose a "peace" on Israel, with no Palestinian concessions, through international organizations.
The EU is fully cooperating with Abbas's strategy.
8
The idea of law is that it should apply to all parties. In this case, the new labelling requirement targets only Israel, not other countries such as Morroco and Turkey who are regarded as occupiers in international law. This is a special rule for Israel. Why would the European Union make a special rule for Israel? Anybody's guess.
At the same time, as the only democracy in the Middle East is targeted by the new requirement, European lawmakers and businessmen are falling over each other in attempts to build ties and make deals with Iran, now that sanctions are apparently going to be removed soon. Iran by proxy is taking over entire swaths of countries, including iraq, Syria and the Gaza Strip. There seems to be no labelling requirement for goods produced in these areas, perhaps because no goods are produced there, due to the terrible situation in these places. True humanitarians would be more concerned over places such as these, and not Israel which gives full rights to all its minorities, and is attempting to defend itself from those who wish to destroy it from within and from without.
At the same time, as the only democracy in the Middle East is targeted by the new requirement, European lawmakers and businessmen are falling over each other in attempts to build ties and make deals with Iran, now that sanctions are apparently going to be removed soon. Iran by proxy is taking over entire swaths of countries, including iraq, Syria and the Gaza Strip. There seems to be no labelling requirement for goods produced in these areas, perhaps because no goods are produced there, due to the terrible situation in these places. True humanitarians would be more concerned over places such as these, and not Israel which gives full rights to all its minorities, and is attempting to defend itself from those who wish to destroy it from within and from without.
78
'as the only democracy...'
Let's drag that tired old line out again. Get back to us when everybody inside Israel can be a citizen and can vote on equal terms.
Let's drag that tired old line out again. Get back to us when everybody inside Israel can be a citizen and can vote on equal terms.
227
Today, for instance...
2
people who live in glass houses.....yes it is a" tired old line" but basically true when one looks at the neighborhood. When one looks farther east, oh never mind it is another tired old line.
5
Israel is greatly disliked in Europe these days, but Palestinian stabbers and nuclear deals are much defended there. Mr. Netanyahu is right. It is no longer a place for Jews.
33
Israel is not representative of all Jews in Europe and vice versa.
14
A. Stanton is right.
6
When you are hated and reviled by a large number of people, you do what you can to change things. That has been tried. Now is the time to get out.
6
The author is right - the EU does not apply standards consistently across occupied territories. For instance, the EU bans the import of all goods produced in Crimea, as well as all sorts of investment. This is not done with regards to other occupied territories, including those occupied by Israel: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/19/uk-ukraine-crisis-eu-sanctions-...
17
This commentary is wonderful news. It shows that Europe is totally aware of the illegality of the occupation and will not be cowed by the powerful Israeli lobby, unlike most American politicians. It shows too that the gentle, calm, deliberate work of the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement is becoming a real threat to the zionist ideology. This ideology favors one religion/ethnicity (no one knows) and openly discriminates against non-members, non-adherents. This ideology of prejudice and racism is unsustainable in the long run. It's demise is inevitable.
284
Gary, your post is laughable. You boldly put on display your utter ignorance of what Zionism even is.
I am assuming you totally support the Arabs' desire for a "Greater Palestine," An all-Arab, majority-Muslim, State that would include all....all...of present-day Israel.
Well, I can assure you...Israel's demise is hardly "inevitable." Check back in 50 years.
I am assuming you totally support the Arabs' desire for a "Greater Palestine," An all-Arab, majority-Muslim, State that would include all....all...of present-day Israel.
Well, I can assure you...Israel's demise is hardly "inevitable." Check back in 50 years.
4
The European Union is right and I wish the U.S. and others who trade with Israel had the same testicular fortitude to do the same. According to international law Israel is an illegal occupier of other people's territory and does not deserve to be regarded as a law-abiding nation. The assertion that Turkey and others are occupiers as well conveniently sweeps under the rug the fact that Turkey's occupation of parts of Cyprus is welcomed by the local Turkish Cypriots on the island.
354
I own china plates labeled as from the American Zone of Occupation in Germany, acquired by an ancestor of mine in a US Department Store in the late 1940s. The label was accurate.
1
Your comments about Cyprus are absurd.
Greek Cypriots call Turkey The Aggressor. Turkish Cypriots call it the motherland. I assure you the Greek Cypriots don't appreciate Turkish Airforce planes flying over Cyprus, just as the Turkish Cypriots don't appreciate the Greek Cypriots raising the Greek flag. Wake up.
Greek Cypriots call Turkey The Aggressor. Turkish Cypriots call it the motherland. I assure you the Greek Cypriots don't appreciate Turkish Airforce planes flying over Cyprus, just as the Turkish Cypriots don't appreciate the Greek Cypriots raising the Greek flag. Wake up.
5
Alfred Yul Dubai: you are ignorant of the fact that the US is founded on the seizure of innumerable Indian lands and forced wars with Mexico and Spain. And really, Alfred Yul, to talk from Dubai about human rights violations makes all of here in the US want to laugh in your face. You must think we Americans are fools to hear talk like that from Dubai!!
4
Israel is occupying land and suppressing millions. Action causes reaction.
136
I don't care if it's legal or not. Any action which indicates disgust and a refusal to accept Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is fine by me. I say impose total, absolute, 100% sanctions against any form of trade with Israel until every adult who lives under Israeli rule has a vote on who rules Israel.
264
We don't have that here. what about Puerto Rico?
4
Sorry, Israel, you've been at it too long, and the World is fed up. Eoither make peace and stop occupying lands, or become more isolated. Enough is enough!
373
You don't speak for the world.
8
You can't make peace with others who want only the destruction of your nation. What part of that is so difficult to understand? Palestinians have taken this position since before the 1967 war. Look it up.
8
What an banal, sophomoric, ignorant post.
One could just as easily cry: "Sorry, Palestinians, you've been at it too long, and the World is fed up. Either make peace and stop terrorizing Israel, or become more isolated [and less on the minds of world leaders]. Enough is enough!
One could just as easily cry: "Sorry, Palestinians, you've been at it too long, and the World is fed up. Either make peace and stop terrorizing Israel, or become more isolated [and less on the minds of world leaders]. Enough is enough!
3
Well Israel could always end the occupation of the West Bank. Don't want to do that? Didn't think so. Stop whining.
429
Thanks!!! I couldn't have said it better myself!!!
4
Ending the occupation isn't so simple. Give it back to the Palestinians? Tried that once in Gaza. Resulted in daily rocket bombardment.
8
Oh, and forgot to mention. PM Ehud Barak tried to give 97%+ of the west bank back in 2000. Yasir Arafat didn't want it.
8
"Making special rules for Israel has the undesired effect of reducing Israel’s incentives to take international law seriously"
I assume the author is thinking about the inconsistency of US policy regarding sponsorization and delivery of lethal weapons to Israel used against civilians in Gaza and occupied territory, with its often-claimed defense of the Declaration of human rights?
I assume the author is thinking about the inconsistency of US policy regarding sponsorization and delivery of lethal weapons to Israel used against civilians in Gaza and occupied territory, with its often-claimed defense of the Declaration of human rights?
123
As opposed to non-lethal weapons, like knives, bombs, and missiles, used by the Palestinians.
20
Let's think about what may have led up to such a level of frustration and hopelessness that has led to this spate of attacks on Israelis. Would it have anything to do with continued settlement expansions on occupied lands, deemed illegal under international law (of which more were approved this week)? Would it be the treatment of Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli government? No, it couldn't be. After all, there's nothing Israel does that would be considered a contributing factor, would there.
Israel represses and deprives Palestinians of basic human rights on a daily basis; hard to believe that degrading treatment might boil over into such anger and manifest itself this way, isn't it.
Israel represses and deprives Palestinians of basic human rights on a daily basis; hard to believe that degrading treatment might boil over into such anger and manifest itself this way, isn't it.
29
As opposed to the non-lethal weapons delivered daily to Hamas in Gaza by Iran to launch randomly on Israeli civilian towns? Seriously.
2
The problem is that the Islamic lobby in Europe, and that is the result
19
Sorry, what? Islamic lobby in Europe? That's news to me, would you care to substantiate that allegation further?
30
What? There is no Islamic lobby here.
9
The hypocrisy of a "double standard" applicable only to Israel, is blatantly obvious, not to mention the clear violation of European Union court decisions on discriminatory trade practices. Perhaps the United States should impose its own "country of origin" labeling standards, requiring "truth in labeling" for products of not only "Occupied Western Sahara," but also "Occupied Ireland," "Occupied Cyprus," "Occupied Ukraine," "Occupied Crimea" and "Occupied Tibet." Then Americans who choose to boycott products from "occupied" territories, may do so consistently!
44
I am old enough to recall products labeled, "Made in occupied Japan."
21
The same arguments were made by the South African government before it fell.
26
Israel has been demanding a double standard from the rest of the world for a half century, and now you call it "hypocrisy?" It's about time!
18
The European Union is completely confused. Instead of going after the
cold blooded killers of ISIS, it attempts to diminish the only democracy in
the Middle East. The U.S. is bombing ISIS targets, according to the Times' report
today, and the E.U. is criticizing Israel. This confusing strategy shows a complete
lack of leadership against the ISIS killers.
cold blooded killers of ISIS, it attempts to diminish the only democracy in
the Middle East. The U.S. is bombing ISIS targets, according to the Times' report
today, and the E.U. is criticizing Israel. This confusing strategy shows a complete
lack of leadership against the ISIS killers.
34
Currently several EU countries are engaged in military action against ISIS, none of them are engaged in military actions against Israel, methinks you are somewhat confused.
31
I don't see Israel rushing to attack ISIS , but plenty happy seeing everyone else fighting. Great value set you got going there.
22
A country which makes religion the basis of rights isn't a Democracy.
18
"The union's labeling guidelines are manifestly discriminatory, as they apply only to Israel."
Big surprise.
Big surprise.
45
Good. The EU is trying to leverage some pressure on Israel. The idea that Israel is deeply perturbed by an unequal application of laws is ironic to the extreme considering how unbalanced Israel conducts itself. Good luck with the whining. Nobody is listening.
25
The constant singling out of Israel as the sole source of problems in the ME by the EU means that no one is listening to them either.
6
So, then, in order to "get" Israel, EU established trade law just...doesn't matter? Rule of law doesn't matter to you?
2
Israel takes a bellicose, defiant attitude towards the rest of the world. Please don't expect a lot of sympathy in return.
394
But you have sympathy for Turkey who conquered half of Cyprus and for Morocco? It is not a question of sympathy, but as Prof. Kontorovich points out, of law and consistency of the EU. Nobody asks for your sympathy.
49
Two or three wrongs don't make something right. This rule should be extended to other countries as well. As far as Israel goes--she should be subjected to greater scrutiny, because she claims to be the only democratic country in the ME and is privy to lots of preferential treatment by Western countries.
43
By "bellicose", I assume you mean that Israel has the audacity to defend itself from threats of nuclear annihilation, rocket attacks, assaults on citizens, and delegitimization as a sovereign nation.
42
Are they ashamed of the settlements?