I think the key figures here are 6.5 percent of the state workforce and 10,000 workers. That puts the total workforce at about 154,000. So 10,000 make less than $15/hr and 144,000 make more than $15. Not exactly going to break the bank. I am also surprised that any NY state workers make less than $15/hr. I'm sure the average is much higher.
Only 6.5% of NY workers make minimum wage, based on this article. I'm going out on a limb here, but my experience with government jobs is that minimum wage is rare and when used, is a starting point for new workers for semi-skilled jobs. They quickly escalate after that due to Public Service contracts that mandate wage increases that exceed inflation (at least the government's published inflation).
This is much ado about nothing.
This is much ado about nothing.
Should have to show if workers will actually net positive. Many net negative in other areas where government has created artificial wage scale absent of realities of how the economy works. Want to know how much food prices will go up in DC? Same as federal pay raise. Socialism only works until you run out of other people's money. Forcing private industry to compete with pay scales that exceed the skill and productivity returned will fail. USSR folded, China have up.
Minimum wage needs to be formulated in relation to the current cost of housing in each individual area. The military does it with it's members, and the banks do it when you apply for a mortgage. If you work in a town that you can't afford to live in, then what good is it? Would I pay an extra quarter or two for a burger knowing the employees are getting fair pay, of course. And when people get paid more, they spend more which is great for any economy. Too many people think backwards. It just makes a ton of sense to pay people a living wage.
It's nice to get a raise. Fifteen dollars an hour! Wow! In the 1960s I worked in our family business. Minimum wages were about $1.60 an hour or so. It was affordable. We paid the employer's share of Social Security tax on wages as well as unemployment compensation and other taxes.
I closed the door on the last of our small family business in 1994. By then minimum wages had reached $5.50/hour, plus taxes. We could no longer afford to hire young high school and college kids to work over the holidays or sales. Less help meant less sales and less ability to meet our customer's needs.
The increase in wages also meant we had to shop for cheaper goods to sell and we extended our hours to try and meet sales objectives. For a small family business it was hopeless.
Increases in minimum wages may bring up wages for a few people and may actually help people to get by.
I would argue that throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s wage increases did nothing but increase expenses and destroy more jobs and more businesses. Arbitrary and inflationary wage increases do not mean more jobs. It meant less jobs especially for the young.
All the wage increases did was force jobs in the U.S. off shore as big box retailers and others sought less expensive products made with cheap labor as U.S. jobs were destroyed. Minimum wages increases increased welfare, food stamps, decreased manufacturing and forced manufacturing off shore. Free markets should determine wages, not government.
I closed the door on the last of our small family business in 1994. By then minimum wages had reached $5.50/hour, plus taxes. We could no longer afford to hire young high school and college kids to work over the holidays or sales. Less help meant less sales and less ability to meet our customer's needs.
The increase in wages also meant we had to shop for cheaper goods to sell and we extended our hours to try and meet sales objectives. For a small family business it was hopeless.
Increases in minimum wages may bring up wages for a few people and may actually help people to get by.
I would argue that throughout the 50s, 60s and 70s wage increases did nothing but increase expenses and destroy more jobs and more businesses. Arbitrary and inflationary wage increases do not mean more jobs. It meant less jobs especially for the young.
All the wage increases did was force jobs in the U.S. off shore as big box retailers and others sought less expensive products made with cheap labor as U.S. jobs were destroyed. Minimum wages increases increased welfare, food stamps, decreased manufacturing and forced manufacturing off shore. Free markets should determine wages, not government.
1
1.60 an hour is the equivalent of 7.75 in 1994 wages, so it's hard to see how that was a factor in your company going pot of business.
1
These pay raises affect not only the small businesses but also cause pay at larger firms. You are right to note that these higher pay raises are not just a paycheck but also increase the costs of the Social Security and Medicare contributions made by employers and also the cost of mandated Federal and State unemployment taxes and Workmen's Compensation policies which are also mandated. Holidays and vacations also are more expensive as they are days when they produce no revenue.
While they drive small businesses out they also make it worthwhile financially for bigger companies to move out of state. In the last 6 months we have picked up NY and NJ companies who are bringing 3000 jobs with them. Two of them are corporate headquarters with 80% of the employees making more than $100,000 a year. That's a big hit on those states' tax revenues. The number of people who are getting $15 and hour can never replace that lost state revenue. That means a tax raise for the rest of the citizens who will also leave for cheaper places to live.
While they drive small businesses out they also make it worthwhile financially for bigger companies to move out of state. In the last 6 months we have picked up NY and NJ companies who are bringing 3000 jobs with them. Two of them are corporate headquarters with 80% of the employees making more than $100,000 a year. That's a big hit on those states' tax revenues. The number of people who are getting $15 and hour can never replace that lost state revenue. That means a tax raise for the rest of the citizens who will also leave for cheaper places to live.
I love the right wing double standard:
- Since the 80's we've been waiting for the huge drops in the highest marginal tax rates; "trickle-down economics", to turn into a high tide that will raise all boats. After 35 years, only the yachts have risen.
- Now the right wing is saying we can't even TRY to raise the minimum wage (for people at the lower end of the marginal tax rates) because it is clear ahead of time it will absolutely be a disaster.
How about we raise the minimum wage to $15/hr, tie increases to inflation, and in another 35 years we take a look at which economic plan works better?
- Since the 80's we've been waiting for the huge drops in the highest marginal tax rates; "trickle-down economics", to turn into a high tide that will raise all boats. After 35 years, only the yachts have risen.
- Now the right wing is saying we can't even TRY to raise the minimum wage (for people at the lower end of the marginal tax rates) because it is clear ahead of time it will absolutely be a disaster.
How about we raise the minimum wage to $15/hr, tie increases to inflation, and in another 35 years we take a look at which economic plan works better?
4
Increasing wages is a good start but it won't do much good if they don't act to cap the prices of necessities like food, housing, utilities etc.
2
Cuomo has been no friend of state workers. It would not surprise me if he tried to reduce all state workers' pay to $15 per hour. And that includes professionals. He cannot be trusted.
Just another brick on the load for New York state taxpayers. There is no tax, no pay increase, and no new big government program that Cuomo and like minded liberal Democrats will refuse to endorse and foist on New York residents. Who will save this state from the clueless elected officials in Albany who are are always willing. able and ready to spend OUR money?
2
How many NY state workers make less than $15/hr now? I'm guessing not very many.
2
"How many NY state workers make less than $15/hr now? I'm guessing not very many." Then you would be quite wrong. Just check the help wanted pages sometime, at least 20% and most likely more are below that figure.
$18,000 a year...... is this article about a living in poverty making minimum wage or social security?
2
Some enterprising inventor will create an automatic burger ordering/making machine to replace all those 15.00 an hour workers. The customer will only have to push a button or two and swipe their debit card. The lone 15.00 an hour worker will maintain the burger machine and sweep the floors. Oh wait, Roombas can do that!
2
I saw one of these machines about 30 years ago. It was all mechanical and clunky and was down more than up. It was a gimmick used by a new burger start up called Space Station: Earth.
Today with digital controls and better mechanical designs it is a strong possibility it will work well enough to go into service. Coupled with a self order/pay kiosk it will eliminate many jobs.
40 years ago I worked in a tool and die shop doing rough cutting on a lathe. By hooking up a radio and lights to a switch that operated 100/1000ths of an inch the radio would turn off and the lights told me which lathe to attend to. I was paid $1.75 an hour when the minimum wage was $1.00.
Your pharmacist is probably using a robot to fill prescriptions of the most commonly prescribed drugs in various quantities. When you call in for a refill your are hooked up to the server which verifies that you have refills left and tells the robot to fill the bottles and prepare a label. If you don't have refills it automatically sends a fax to the prescribing doctor for permission to to fill and a new prescription. This goes on night and day 7/24. New prescriptions are filled when the Pharmacist hits enter and a new record is created automatically. It also creates an inventory record and requests restocking on the bins as well as bottles. It saves the Pharmacy time and eliminated two technicians jobs as well as allowing the Pharmacists to come in at least an hour later to check the bottles and cap them .
Today with digital controls and better mechanical designs it is a strong possibility it will work well enough to go into service. Coupled with a self order/pay kiosk it will eliminate many jobs.
40 years ago I worked in a tool and die shop doing rough cutting on a lathe. By hooking up a radio and lights to a switch that operated 100/1000ths of an inch the radio would turn off and the lights told me which lathe to attend to. I was paid $1.75 an hour when the minimum wage was $1.00.
Your pharmacist is probably using a robot to fill prescriptions of the most commonly prescribed drugs in various quantities. When you call in for a refill your are hooked up to the server which verifies that you have refills left and tells the robot to fill the bottles and prepare a label. If you don't have refills it automatically sends a fax to the prescribing doctor for permission to to fill and a new prescription. This goes on night and day 7/24. New prescriptions are filled when the Pharmacist hits enter and a new record is created automatically. It also creates an inventory record and requests restocking on the bins as well as bottles. It saves the Pharmacy time and eliminated two technicians jobs as well as allowing the Pharmacists to come in at least an hour later to check the bottles and cap them .
This is going to be a disaster for poor working people but they are to blind to see it. As all wages increase everything else going to increase food, cloths, etc.. ( so basically you only creating inflation ) Not only that, but since your wage increase you won't be qualified for the benefit you are quallified now. No Food stamp, No medicaid, No goverment help. Now not only did everything increase, now you have extra cost of health care and food that you need to paid. Since the federal's help go by country wide and not state wide.
4
Cuomo will gradually raise wages to $15 an hour--in 2021. That's $26,000 a year, in 2021.
What a sport.
What a sport.
4
The single biggest expense for Companies besides wages is RENT. All the private equity players, hedge funds and private investors who buy real estate, drive up real estate prices by bidding enormous sums of other peoples money. In turn, they continue to raise rents to ungodly numbers to pay of the enormous debt they incurred in the process. Guess what? If apartment X is charging Y dollars, then apartment Z is able to charge Y dollars. This is the vicious cycle to permeates throughout NY City. It's so unaffordable to live in NY City that the Governor has resorted to desperate measures.
There should be tax penalties on acquisition costs above certain thresholds. What is to stop any company forming a LLC to buy real estate, enjoy all the tax credits and tax write offs without holding their feet to the fire? Most of the LLC real estate transactions are so opaque we don't know who the investors are.
It's better to go after the root of the problem than legislate a minimum wage of $15 a hour. Owners are just going to pass on the increased costs to the consumer.
There should be tax penalties on acquisition costs above certain thresholds. What is to stop any company forming a LLC to buy real estate, enjoy all the tax credits and tax write offs without holding their feet to the fire? Most of the LLC real estate transactions are so opaque we don't know who the investors are.
It's better to go after the root of the problem than legislate a minimum wage of $15 a hour. Owners are just going to pass on the increased costs to the consumer.
6
The era of small businesses in NYC is coming to an end. You can't pay someone $31200/year + rent + high NYC taxes/fees and stay in business. No one in middle-class NYC is going to pay $6 for a cheese danish.
3
Government can do almost anything when money is a line item in a budget and there is a power to tax. The governor may have announced it but the citizens of NY have just agreed to pay for it. Just another way to buy votes with taxpayer money. Take a look at the current story of Chicago's pension funding problems. Promise everything and let someone else pay for it. Collect the votes and power now.
2
The political hack scores again.
The New York Times math department closed for business.
Nowhere do we find economic analysis.
We do not know the collateral. Why not $20.00?
The New York Times math department closed for business.
Nowhere do we find economic analysis.
We do not know the collateral. Why not $20.00?
1
I thought buying votes was illegal.
4
The minimum wages causes job loss. Check out any elementary Economics text.
Having said that, the wage won't be at $15 per hour until 2021? Probable inflation - another fundamental of Economics - will render that increase - 6 years away - meaningless.
Having said that, the wage won't be at $15 per hour until 2021? Probable inflation - another fundamental of Economics - will render that increase - 6 years away - meaningless.
2
How will this decision impact those who rose through the ranks to /finally achieve/ the $15.00 wage? What about those who were HIRED at that rate of pay, and haven't emerged much beyond that, whether they're caught in cost of living-statewide holdbacks, or just not in a "raiseworthy" position?
I'm curious. This is an idea that needs further analysis. While we all acknowledge that the current min wage is not a living wage, was minimum wage ever INTENDED to be a living wage or merely an entry point into the workforce? Instead of raising the rate, why not give these workers better benefits? An extra week of time away from the job to be used as vacation time, or sick time?
This slaps those who are at the $15.00 level already; many of whom may have taken years to get there.
I'm curious. This is an idea that needs further analysis. While we all acknowledge that the current min wage is not a living wage, was minimum wage ever INTENDED to be a living wage or merely an entry point into the workforce? Instead of raising the rate, why not give these workers better benefits? An extra week of time away from the job to be used as vacation time, or sick time?
This slaps those who are at the $15.00 level already; many of whom may have taken years to get there.
4
It actually drives their wages up over time too. That means everyone has more to spend.
1
Re: While we all acknowledge that the current min wage is not a living wage, was minimum wage ever INTENDED to be a living wage or merely an entry point into the workforce?
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933
"No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country."
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, 1933
How about taking into account the difference in the cost of living between the time those people were hired and the time they reached $15.00 an hour. I'm sure it was significant. And why shouldn't minimum wage be a living wage? Even people in entry level positions deserve to be able to pay their bills and provide for their families. As a retired NYS employee (35+ years) I am glad to see this. It's been a long time coming.
We expect every able bodied adult to pay the rent, have insurance, put their kids through school and feed themselves. We don't want able bodied people on food stamps, welfare or any other form of tax funded assistance. To achieve this, maintaining a reasonable minimum wage that covers the most basic of living expenses is a core requirement. Any democracy based on capitalism risks failure when forced to over-expand the use of welfare in short-sighted deference to greed. Augmenting low wages with government benefits only serves to artificially lower costs for business, at taxpayers expense. Those complaining that basic wage regulation artificially warps the labor market, need only look in the mirror. Market distortion is at its worst whenever taxpayers are forced to make up the difference between artificially low wages and the realities of basic living. Government must require anyone allowed the privilege and responsibility of being an employer to pay a livable wage. Nothing supports capitalism more than when the labor force receives fair pay for a fair days work. Nothing risks eroding capitalism more than allowing a impoverished labor force to grow ever greater in both size and need until it becomes simply unsustainable. Since capitalism is a system largely based on hope, you can't sustain it by allowing a growing portion of the labor pool to become trapped under a shrinking dome of hopelessness.
4
What really needs to be addressed is job creation. Right now if you were downsized, educated and went to Workforce 1 Center in NY there are NO jobs for educated middle class workers. Even worse are the Department of Labor offices in NY, they have a fraudulent website.
2
Cuomo hardly leads the way on raising the minimum wage. Many of his counterparts in other states and cities did so years ago, and have continued to endorse higher minimum wages. The governor is no maverick. And wasn't this proposal to raise the minimum wage in New York announced several months ago? Why are we hearing about it again now? It was and remains a solid step, albeit a rather small one, in the right direction. The minimum wage will rise in increments and the full $15 increase will not be realized until 2018, when the value of a dollar in this city and state will be even lower. Might our governor be "recycling" an old piece of news to get a few more points from labor and the general public? We get it, but let's not be in awe at what Cuomo is doing.
4
It's not "recycling" a piece of news. A few months ago it was only raised for one industry, the fast food industry. This is a raise across the board.
I'm surprised that seasonal employees such as lifeguards (read: high school and college kids) are deemed to need to make a living wage.
1
I'm interested to see how all these local wage increases will affect federal SSDI, because Republicans want to cut work incentives and kick us all off. We lazy slackers are currently allowed to earn $1090 a month, no matter where we live. Divide that by $15 and by 4.33, and that's about 16 hours a week. If you're in the New York, Seattle, or SF vicinity (presumably in a box or someone else's home), who's going to hire you?
Moronic idea. Increasing minimum wage will do nothing to move people out of poverty. It will cost jobs. The NYT cannot do simple math.
4
How will New York State pay for the increase in wages for state workers? How much will taxes be raised to make this happen. Its nice to raise everyone's wages to $15.00 an hour, again how will the private sector pay for this? Can we expect to see a $10.00 Big Mac, $5.00 for fries & $5.00 for a soda? Will this cause an exodus of tax payer and business from the state?
4
Fosco commented, "Everything is relative. You can not end poverty by paying people more money to do menial jobs. Once everyone gets paid more money, money will be worth less and everyone will be poor again."
Ok, I'll play. Say all those people with "menial jobs" get Harvard diplomas. Now those diplomas won't be worth anything and their skilled jobs will only pay minimum wage or be outsourced.
Basically, you are using capitalism to justify virtual slavery. There is enough pie for all but if we continue to allow those at the top to keep vastly more than their share, others will go hungry.
The backbone of any household is what used to called "women's work". The backbone of any society is what we call "menial labor". Neither household nor society can run if those jobs are not done. Yet we continue to debase those who perform the most crucial of jobs. Please realize that "unskilled" means that the worker is readily replaced, not that the jobs they perform are inessential. When we abandon all obligation to our fellow countrymen and treat our workers as mere commodities, we are essentially practicing slavery.
Ok, I'll play. Say all those people with "menial jobs" get Harvard diplomas. Now those diplomas won't be worth anything and their skilled jobs will only pay minimum wage or be outsourced.
Basically, you are using capitalism to justify virtual slavery. There is enough pie for all but if we continue to allow those at the top to keep vastly more than their share, others will go hungry.
The backbone of any household is what used to called "women's work". The backbone of any society is what we call "menial labor". Neither household nor society can run if those jobs are not done. Yet we continue to debase those who perform the most crucial of jobs. Please realize that "unskilled" means that the worker is readily replaced, not that the jobs they perform are inessential. When we abandon all obligation to our fellow countrymen and treat our workers as mere commodities, we are essentially practicing slavery.
14
Virtual Slavery? Do you mean Voluntary Slavery? Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head to work a minimum wage job.
It's amazing that you trot out commentary on capitalism but you likely enjoy its benefits and would likely be the first to complain when a cheeseburger goes from .99 to $4. Nobody should get paid more than a job is worth just like nobody should pay more for a product or service than it is worth. You cannot change the value of something by legislating a higher wage anymore than you can change it with price floors or ceilings. Nor can NYS stay out of budgetary trouble by adding, oh, $30,000 AN HOUR to its budget. (10,000 workers, increasing from an est. $12 to $15/hr. That's $62M annually.)
The woes of low wage earners are not cured by us banging our heads into the walls of economic reality. If we really want to help those who can't earn, offer them direct benefits like welfare. Skip the detrimental impact on the person already making $16 an hour who suddenly has no spending power. Next, if you want them to help themselves, tell them to join a union and bargain for a market-based wage. But simply ignoring laws of supply and demand and turning the world's last and best meritocracy into a socialist dump is not sound policy.
Incidentally, I am a proud Philadelphian. For years, New York's loss has been our gain. When this policy finally starves the NY taxpayer, I'll be standing by to welcome them back.
It's amazing that you trot out commentary on capitalism but you likely enjoy its benefits and would likely be the first to complain when a cheeseburger goes from .99 to $4. Nobody should get paid more than a job is worth just like nobody should pay more for a product or service than it is worth. You cannot change the value of something by legislating a higher wage anymore than you can change it with price floors or ceilings. Nor can NYS stay out of budgetary trouble by adding, oh, $30,000 AN HOUR to its budget. (10,000 workers, increasing from an est. $12 to $15/hr. That's $62M annually.)
The woes of low wage earners are not cured by us banging our heads into the walls of economic reality. If we really want to help those who can't earn, offer them direct benefits like welfare. Skip the detrimental impact on the person already making $16 an hour who suddenly has no spending power. Next, if you want them to help themselves, tell them to join a union and bargain for a market-based wage. But simply ignoring laws of supply and demand and turning the world's last and best meritocracy into a socialist dump is not sound policy.
Incidentally, I am a proud Philadelphian. For years, New York's loss has been our gain. When this policy finally starves the NY taxpayer, I'll be standing by to welcome them back.
2
Please provide proof that a cheeseburger is going to be $4. In fact, that is a ridiculous argument that has been proven wrong many times over.
So many of these "liberal" commenters always place responsibility outside the
person affected by the conditions they abhor. I am curious. What responsibility do the individuals themselves bear to improve their socioeconomic/health position. Smoking, out-of-wedlock childbirths, unwillingness to manages finances, etc., etc.
I am not arguing here, just inquiring. I have owned rental properties for 40 years and have seen far more often than not--behavioral patterns that aggravate rather than mitigate. {none of my properties were ever slum/deteriorated. Although after some tenants vacated, one would have categorized them as "how could people live like this?"
A current property: former tenant post-doctoral fellow. Very nice 2-2 townhouse. Next tenant unwed mother. Never pays rent on time, place looks like a slum (now), found a good job with leading, respected employer-- then QUIT because she did not like the hours. Of course, she then stopped paying rent and grabbed off every government check/benefit she could.
Hard life, bad childhood--I do not know. But in the past three years that she that I have observed (now owes me $2,000 past unpaid rent), her troubles are not CAPITALISM. Rather, her own poor decisions. So, what responsibility should "society" impose? Any? Or does she (as just one example) possess a human right that negates any socially-personally responsible/sensible choices.
person affected by the conditions they abhor. I am curious. What responsibility do the individuals themselves bear to improve their socioeconomic/health position. Smoking, out-of-wedlock childbirths, unwillingness to manages finances, etc., etc.
I am not arguing here, just inquiring. I have owned rental properties for 40 years and have seen far more often than not--behavioral patterns that aggravate rather than mitigate. {none of my properties were ever slum/deteriorated. Although after some tenants vacated, one would have categorized them as "how could people live like this?"
A current property: former tenant post-doctoral fellow. Very nice 2-2 townhouse. Next tenant unwed mother. Never pays rent on time, place looks like a slum (now), found a good job with leading, respected employer-- then QUIT because she did not like the hours. Of course, she then stopped paying rent and grabbed off every government check/benefit she could.
Hard life, bad childhood--I do not know. But in the past three years that she that I have observed (now owes me $2,000 past unpaid rent), her troubles are not CAPITALISM. Rather, her own poor decisions. So, what responsibility should "society" impose? Any? Or does she (as just one example) possess a human right that negates any socially-personally responsible/sensible choices.
1
If we had direct democracy where everyone could vote directly for all legislative agenda at the city, county, state, and federal government level, then maybe if every item that was voted for was taxed, then we wouldn't vote for most items seeing that we are already almost 20 trillion in debt at the federal level, and almost all states are in debt including New York!
2
Good idea, but workers will have to wait years for that $15 an hour. According to the article, state workers in NYC reach $15 at the end of 2018, while those outside the city won't see the big money until 2021!
4
Now this minimum needs to be extended to all workers at Port Authority installations, including those who work for Port Authority subcontractors.
2
And New York will continue to be #1 again in this category. Costs will go up (because we always pay for the increases). So be it and more and more people will continue to leave the state of New York due to expense.
3
Could we please stop demeaning people who are willing to work by referring to them as "burger flippers?"
During the worst year of the recession I took a job tending a man who suffered from dementia. My time with him was spent making sure he didn't expose himself in public and answering the same question over and over again for hours on end. I took this job, not because I am uneducated or unskilled, but because I have a work ethic and would have been ashamed to turn down work just because it's "menial."
I was brought up in a working class family and I was taught to respect everyone who was willing to work. Calling people who are willing to work "burger flippers" is demeaning and it's wrong. People take jobs in fast food restaurants because that's what's available. These are the kind of jobs that our economy can't outsource, and the realists a,one U.S. Take them when there's nothing else.
During the worst year of the recession I took a job tending a man who suffered from dementia. My time with him was spent making sure he didn't expose himself in public and answering the same question over and over again for hours on end. I took this job, not because I am uneducated or unskilled, but because I have a work ethic and would have been ashamed to turn down work just because it's "menial."
I was brought up in a working class family and I was taught to respect everyone who was willing to work. Calling people who are willing to work "burger flippers" is demeaning and it's wrong. People take jobs in fast food restaurants because that's what's available. These are the kind of jobs that our economy can't outsource, and the realists a,one U.S. Take them when there's nothing else.
16
While it may help a little bit the under educated single mother with kids or the immigrant worker with kids will still be living on the fringes of society with little to look forward to.
2
I am always amazed over how many commentators here pontificate without even reading the article. Cuomo announced that this would apply only to NY State workers, not the "menial" workers that so many people here complain about. And those who put down people who hold "menial" jobs should try to work a full day at a fast food restaurant or as a dishwasher at a regular restaurant or as a supermarket cashier. You may find out how "lazy" and "undeserving" these leeches are. And all NY State workers are not getting this new salary raise. It is region dependent. NYC has a much higher cost of living than, for instance, the upstate southern tier. People in these areas with lower costs of living will not reach $15 until 2021. Do some of you folks have reading problems or do you just like to make things up to prove your prejudices? It sounds like you are getting your approaches from the Republican debate. For shame!
10
Republicans object to raising wages but don't want to help people who cannot make enough to live on.
4
During all 8 years of the Reagan administration the minimum wage was $3.35 per hour. It currently is $7.25. But adjusted for inflation, the current minimum wage is now 20% LOWER than it was during the time of Reagan. So why don't we raise the actual minimum wage now by raising the relative minimum wage that existed during the administration of that Liberal-Pinko-Commie, Ronald Reagan.
8
NYS workers are not flippers of hamburgers. These are critical skilled or semi skilled jobs. Jobs are like snow movers and taking care of ill children in the hospital. NYS employees are careers for the duration, not starters jobs. To have a minimum salary of $30k is not a big leap, and warranted.
9
I agree with your point about the state workers, but could we PLEASE stop denigrating people who are willing to work with the demeaning term "burger flippers." They're willing to work at the jobs that are available. A work ethic should never be demeaned.
6
How about the term, Expedited Food Service Technicians, sound better pal?
1
I have worked many jobs over the years and the minimum wage ones were some of the most strenuous and demanding. Not to mention the customers you had to deal with on a regular basis....well deserving of the 15$ wage.
Companies could get so much more out of their employees if they compensated them fairly.
Companies could get so much more out of their employees if they compensated them fairly.
7
I went to an In-Out Burger restaurant for the first time. They have a "help wanted" sign showing $10.40 hour starting pay with benefits. Their burgers, fries and soft drinks are cheaper than Wendy's and McDonalds and a much better quality. So what's with the "Big Mac will go up a $1.50" talk? Some folks are skimming off big bucks at McDonalds.
5
I will pay you $100 per hour if someone else pays for it. That's you NY taxpayer.
Now if it's my pizza business and I have to compete against the guy down the street then I have to control my costs unless his wages go up as well. Then we both just raise prices for our pizza. Or perhaps the cost of labor is high enough that I can invest in more automation to cut some headcount.
I don't mind people getting paid more but I am not naive to think that jobs will be questioned unless they add $15 of value per hour or the cost can be passed to the consumer. Or in this case passed to the taxpayer.
Now if it's my pizza business and I have to compete against the guy down the street then I have to control my costs unless his wages go up as well. Then we both just raise prices for our pizza. Or perhaps the cost of labor is high enough that I can invest in more automation to cut some headcount.
I don't mind people getting paid more but I am not naive to think that jobs will be questioned unless they add $15 of value per hour or the cost can be passed to the consumer. Or in this case passed to the taxpayer.
1
For decades the the advantages of automation have not been passed along beggar your neighbor has been the game for quite sometime.
I often ask how much time people they work with waste while on the clock at the company they work for. The honest ones say more than 50 percent. The dishonest ones say less than 5 percent. Need I say more about how ridiculous minimum wage laws are. I have people that work for me and I see people at all types of other business that are not worth 50 cent an hour. $15.00 per hour. LOL. You people want things to cost less but the waste you create make for a work environment that can't afford you.
2
The fact is worker productivity keeps rising, so indeed, most workers are not lazy. Most workers do not waste 50% of their time. If they do, isn't that the fault of incompetent managers, not the workers themselves? Worker productivity has doubled since the 1970's as wages have fallen or remained flat. The wealth produced from this growth in worker productivity has not been shared with labor. Rather, it has gone entirely to capital, or the shareholders of companies. Owners of capital are making all these gains off the back of workers. $15 is really still scraps compared to what shareholders reap.
2
"The fact is worker productivity keeps rising"
I would imagine that most productivity increases are due to increased automation, not better workers.
I would imagine that most productivity increases are due to increased automation, not better workers.
5
Gee if you could only buy a slave for eight hundred dollars...that Lincoln ruined everything..
2
It will be interesting to see if tax rates go up, as a result of this action.
2
Why wouldn't they? Someone has to pay for this.
1
Why don't people understand that this merely a tax increase?????
The majority of minimum wage earners supplement a primary wage earner.
The majority of minimum wage earners supplement a primary wage earner.
3
How many jobs will continue to be full time once this takes effect? My bet is that the $15/hr workforce will become increasingly past time, needing to work 3 part time jobs to equal at least 40 hrs.
1
Nobody listens to the economist, just the politician who wants votes.
1. $15/hr is $32,000 per year, not great , but a fair wage nevertheless. It is as much as beginning teachers with degrees earn in some states.
2. Who gets hurt? Teenagers who won't be hired for $15 is one group. Parents will have to foot the bill for smartphones, car insurance, prom expenses, dates, rock concerts, etc. The other group is made up of the very people who are striking and picketing, the under-educated minimum wage workers. They now have competition they can't match and will lose their jobs.
3. Who will take the jobs. A lot of degreed people will work for $32K, A lot of stay at home parents will think $15/hr worth getting a baby sitter and take a job. But the biggest group are retirees. A lot of articles on Baby Boomers retiring with little savings. They will need to work and will push out everybody without degrees or experience. Who would you rather hire - someone with 30-40 years of proven work experience as a clerk, machinist, carpenter, sales person, teacher, etc. or someone who quit high school at 15, immigrated to the US and barely speaks English, etc. Even if it's just flipping burgers, you want the first group. The second group just increases welfare rolls.
Don't live in NY. What kind of gov't job pays less than $15/hr currently. Not many I bet. Probably another sham.
1. $15/hr is $32,000 per year, not great , but a fair wage nevertheless. It is as much as beginning teachers with degrees earn in some states.
2. Who gets hurt? Teenagers who won't be hired for $15 is one group. Parents will have to foot the bill for smartphones, car insurance, prom expenses, dates, rock concerts, etc. The other group is made up of the very people who are striking and picketing, the under-educated minimum wage workers. They now have competition they can't match and will lose their jobs.
3. Who will take the jobs. A lot of degreed people will work for $32K, A lot of stay at home parents will think $15/hr worth getting a baby sitter and take a job. But the biggest group are retirees. A lot of articles on Baby Boomers retiring with little savings. They will need to work and will push out everybody without degrees or experience. Who would you rather hire - someone with 30-40 years of proven work experience as a clerk, machinist, carpenter, sales person, teacher, etc. or someone who quit high school at 15, immigrated to the US and barely speaks English, etc. Even if it's just flipping burgers, you want the first group. The second group just increases welfare rolls.
Don't live in NY. What kind of gov't job pays less than $15/hr currently. Not many I bet. Probably another sham.
8
You suggest that parents will "have to" foot the bill for smartphones, car insurance, prom expenses, dates, rock concerts, etc.
I don't think so. None of these are necessities. If kids can't find works with businesses, they'll babysit and mow lawns for less than $15 an hour like they always did. Or else they'll make their own amusements.
I don't think so. None of these are necessities. If kids can't find works with businesses, they'll babysit and mow lawns for less than $15 an hour like they always did. Or else they'll make their own amusements.
1
I am a job developer for people with disabilities. This is often a great way to help people get into the food service industry... Many of my clients are young people with no previous work experience and barely a GED.
I really see that population being hurt by this because for many employment specialists/developers we have to really work hard to get people with less experience even hired to do minimum wage jobs.
Not to mention, I am a professional with a Bachelor Degree and I barely make over $15/Hour...with experience...
I really see that population being hurt by this because for many employment specialists/developers we have to really work hard to get people with less experience even hired to do minimum wage jobs.
Not to mention, I am a professional with a Bachelor Degree and I barely make over $15/Hour...with experience...
1
Frank Buzolits - 1. "not great , but a fair wage nevertheless. It is as much as beginning teachers with degrees earn in some states." 2. "Who gets hurt?" 3. "Who will take the jobs?"
A perfect example of the law of unintended consequences. A law that is immutable and relates to all including progressives!
A perfect example of the law of unintended consequences. A law that is immutable and relates to all including progressives!
And watch millions of jobs move to other states.
Lota good that will do.
Lota good that will do.
2
and I've got a 3 eyed saltwater catfish I'd like to sell you. while we're at it lets believe the guy who has fished in the same polluted canal for 25 years although he has never caught a fish more than 5 inches long.
1
Would this include adjunct pay at the (largely) state-funded City University of New York (whose entire faculty has been without a contract for 6 years)?
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/ruiz-college-professors-pa...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/ruiz-college-professors-pa...
4
Cuomo probably would like to reduce your pay to $15 per hour!
And that just proves the value of a good liberal arts degree!
Where are all the liberal business owners who already pay their workers a living wage? Doesn't it seem odd that there are so few liberal owners? Even liberal politicians or Hollywood producers hire at under $15, and yet call for the raise unilaterally. Why not just start doing it without government fiat? You really can't be that progressive if you won't implement the change yourself. Save for Costco and maybe a few other small businesses, most progressive business owners (they do exist) have just chosen to not put their money where their mouth is.
4
Everything is relative. You can not end poverty by paying people more money to do menial jobs. Once everyone gets paid more money, money will be worth less and everyone will be poor again. The folks who will suffer most with this inflationary cycle are those on a fixed income...i.e. the elderly.
To reduce poverty, we need to create jobs that have higher value in the world economy. We will never get ahead flipping burgers.
To reduce poverty, we need to create jobs that have higher value in the world economy. We will never get ahead flipping burgers.
2
To reduce poverty you need to educate people, or better yet, motivate people to work.
1
Then how will the burger flippers live, my friend, how?
1
Welfare?
1
(I am a former New Yorker who left because of the cost of living) It may not apply to NY State Workers but has anyone thought of the increase in unemployment that will result from this? If a small business is forced to increase the pay of their employees by 50% or more, it only stands to reason that it will be able to employee fewer people, or non at all if their revenue stream cannot support it. Most small businesses have very narrow profit margins. This is Economics 101, not rocket science.
3
So who is paying for this?
5
You.
Raising minimum wages does not address the automation of repetitive jobs that has resulted in massive unemployment. Perhaps a 3 day work week would make more sense.
2
As long as he doesn't promise it won't raise taxes.
Oh, so workers will get $15 an hour by 2018-2021 when the cost of living will be so high that $15 will basically equal the $9 they're making now? Can someone please explain why this can't go into effect next year and not six years from now? It's infuriating and meaningless; just more of Cuomo's half-hearted measures. If you're going to raise the minimum wage, do it now.
9
Anybody who thinks a person can decently live on less than $15.00 an hour for a 2080 hour work year is simply out of touch with real life, real opportunity and real growth. I first made $15 an hour 30 years ago, in the shipyards. It wasn't a lot of money then but I could save some if I got paid every week. $30,000 +/- today is poverty, especially when fuel prices are high. It is shameful our American identity doesn't reflect in wages and salaries what we give of ourselves to produce a strong economy. The 1% are drunk with wealth, while so many others are incapacitated with poverty.
10
Fuel prices are quite low now--check the pump.
What is wrong with $1.50 per hr in real money? I lived well at $1.25 back in 1965. Inflation has robed the working man in the last 30 years. People in China make more then the common working man in this country, in real money. $15. 00 is not enough.
3
Here we go Cuomo, give the folks 15.00 that work and get pensions from the State and forget the little guy again. Isn't it funny the worker that is employed by the taxpayer is given the big money, while corporate america glides with low pay and big bonuses
2
What if 15 dollars an hour is above what the job is really worth in a market based economy? What if an employer has to let go of 10% of his workers in order to pay for this raise? What if some industries can afford 20 dollars an hour while others can only afford 12 dollars? What if the best average wage is really $14 dollars an hour where not workers lose their job as a result of the new wage floor? A 'one size fits all' solution sounds like the good Governor may have failed Econ 101 in college?
4
What if some industries can only afford $2 an hour? Should they be able to pay their employees that?
3
More politicians better wake up to what the average working American expects out of their so-called leaders or they will be out of a job!
2
It is unfair to say that burger flippers are unworthy of a livable wage. If 40 years ago a burger flipper could live above the poverty line, why shouldn't he/she be able to do so now? Also, an argument about who "deserves" to make a livable wage is not very insightful unless the structural, cultural, and institutional contributors to one's employment/living situation are examined as well. There are well documented patterns that provide insight into how one's socioeconomic background correlates to their life chances, specifically educational attainment and employment. Raising the minimum wage is a consequence of income inequality, and consequences arise from actions. The actions that lead to the consequence, in this case of which there are many, shouldn't be neglected when forming strong opinions.
36
All people who work, no matter their job ,should be respected except if they are members of the NYS legislature.
1
40 years ago, a burger flipper could NOT live above the poverty line. They lived with their parents or quickly found a better job. Burger flipping is not a career. Never has been.
I worked in a kitchen in 1973 and started at $1.25. It was a union job. That came out to $2,600 a year. Guarantee I couldn't live off that then.
I worked in a kitchen in 1973 and started at $1.25. It was a union job. That came out to $2,600 a year. Guarantee I couldn't live off that then.
Once again, "civil service employees" are the exalted class.
5
I am astonished that anyone working for the state is earning less than $15 an hour. It would be helpful if the NYT reported on the types of jobs that pay less than this, e.g., cafeteria and janatorial staff in state office buildings?
5
my calculations have it has approximately fully implemented about $120 million a year increase. On a state budget approaching $95 Billion a year, its peanuts actually
4
"State workers in New York City would earn $15 an hour by the end of 2018; state workers outside of New York City would also see wages rise, though more slowly, with rates climbing to $15 by the end of 2021. All told, some 10,000 workers would see a bump in pay, according to the governor’s office, with the vast majority of those living upstate or outside the city."
Upstate has always been cheaper than downstate, that is why a lot of services are managed from outside NYC. The thing is if you know anyone working for the state, they can't get things done because they always end up saddled with the next person on the list to work for them, usually with lots of points added in for sad things, and usually the person that is qualified to do it, is doing the job along side the person you have to hire because of the list.
You could cut the number of workers if you could get rid of the bad ones, and save money because these people don't pull their weight.
Upstate has always been cheaper than downstate, that is why a lot of services are managed from outside NYC. The thing is if you know anyone working for the state, they can't get things done because they always end up saddled with the next person on the list to work for them, usually with lots of points added in for sad things, and usually the person that is qualified to do it, is doing the job along side the person you have to hire because of the list.
You could cut the number of workers if you could get rid of the bad ones, and save money because these people don't pull their weight.
2
I just did a spit-take.... $15/hr for STATE workers!?!
I've seen how much "work" NY State workers perform, and it's pitiful. Where do I sign up? I promise I'll do at least 5x as much work as the typical NY State worker....then again just being at my desk would be an improvement over some of the current "workers"
I've seen how much "work" NY State workers perform, and it's pitiful. Where do I sign up? I promise I'll do at least 5x as much work as the typical NY State worker....then again just being at my desk would be an improvement over some of the current "workers"
5
Let's see, you live in Tampa, FL, you gonna move up to cold NYState to make that big dough? That's what Republicans say you should do, pull up stakes and move to the money!
3
Thanks Cuomo for doing this, which will inevitably also lead to increases in the private sector. Of course, Cuomo just goes wherever the wind blows, but it is fascinating where the wind is blowing. Bernie Sanders at over 30%. The word liberal no longer anathema to all three Democratic candidates, as they seek to appeal to a rapidly growing progressive movement (of course, Bernie was always there, no matter how the wind blew).
The oligarchs have so indulged their greed, expropriating all the wealth of increased productivity, that it is hard not to see it. Obviously, a good chunk of the country, about half, would rather irrelevantly focus on Blacks, immigrants, gays to feel superior to (and to scapegoat) than to challenge those economic elites. The need to feel superior often trumps (no pun intended, though it fits) the need to improve one's lives, though the recent revelations about soaring deaths among poor and lower middle-class Whites shows that that is not working so well.
Will increased wages destroy America? Well, the base pay/minimum for fast food workers is $20 an hour. And the Economist- not a left-wing magazine- ranks Denmark as 5th for countries quality of life (the U.S. is 16th). And they are much higher on happiness indexes. By the way, Forbes ranks Denmark the number one country to do business in the world. So is Cuomo destroying America? Our other elected officials (who we voted in) and their donor class do a good enough job of that.
The oligarchs have so indulged their greed, expropriating all the wealth of increased productivity, that it is hard not to see it. Obviously, a good chunk of the country, about half, would rather irrelevantly focus on Blacks, immigrants, gays to feel superior to (and to scapegoat) than to challenge those economic elites. The need to feel superior often trumps (no pun intended, though it fits) the need to improve one's lives, though the recent revelations about soaring deaths among poor and lower middle-class Whites shows that that is not working so well.
Will increased wages destroy America? Well, the base pay/minimum for fast food workers is $20 an hour. And the Economist- not a left-wing magazine- ranks Denmark as 5th for countries quality of life (the U.S. is 16th). And they are much higher on happiness indexes. By the way, Forbes ranks Denmark the number one country to do business in the world. So is Cuomo destroying America? Our other elected officials (who we voted in) and their donor class do a good enough job of that.
12
Raising the minimum wage is an idea that is hard to argue against. The issue I have not seen any economists or advocates of this huge increase in the minimum wage address is how one goes about adjusting the wages of those who were making more than the minimum wage previously.
If I am making $15 an hour now, do I stay there even though I was making what amounted to twice the current minimum wage or do I get moved to $30/hr and if I am now making $30, do I get #60/hr? Or is there some formula for adjusting my new pay so that my presumably higher skill gets rewarded accordingly. Or would everybody making between the current minimum wage and $15/hr now be put at $15/hr and everybody else stays where they are? Something does not seem fair or logical about that either. Prof Paul Krugman, we need your insight here!
This issue has not (as far as I know) been addressed by anybody. Professor Krugman (or any other economist), if you read this, can you please educate us on the best way you achieve this without "penalizing" those who are now making more than the minimum wage?
If I am making $15 an hour now, do I stay there even though I was making what amounted to twice the current minimum wage or do I get moved to $30/hr and if I am now making $30, do I get #60/hr? Or is there some formula for adjusting my new pay so that my presumably higher skill gets rewarded accordingly. Or would everybody making between the current minimum wage and $15/hr now be put at $15/hr and everybody else stays where they are? Something does not seem fair or logical about that either. Prof Paul Krugman, we need your insight here!
This issue has not (as far as I know) been addressed by anybody. Professor Krugman (or any other economist), if you read this, can you please educate us on the best way you achieve this without "penalizing" those who are now making more than the minimum wage?
2
If you make the same that you did before a new minimum wage it seems to me that you have NOT been penalized. You just begrudge other workers making a living wage like you? Why measure their worth as being less than yours. That is a major problem in this country.
There is a problem with this $15 wage. What is that? Well in New York State it has been estimated that for every dollar increase from the current minimum wage about 100,000 jobs are lost. This is due mainly due to business replacing labor with capital investment in technology that eliminates labor. No, you cannot have your 'cake' and also eat it. McDonald's is testing a new smartphone app that will allow you to order, and pay, via a phone. It will be brave, jobless, world for these workers.
2
I can't wait until the robots take over your job.
1
Supporting a $15 minimum wage in the fast food industry is a bit like supporting the right to commit suicide. Obviously, workers should have the right to unionize and laborers are entitled to whatever wage they barter for, but $15 an hour per employee would vastly alter the value proposition for franchisers currently considering an upgrade to more automated machines. There's no question higher wages will lead to fewer employees, just how many fewer is a valid and very important question, at least to me. As much as I'd like to see cashiers and cooks making a livable wage, I'd also like there to be entry-level jobs available where newer workers can earn skills and dispensable income since they're usually not the primary income. I don't believe the "Fight for $15" leaders are fairly portraying this cost analysis, and that many of those striking for a $15 wage today are striking for a policy that will lose them their jobs.
5
35 hours/week x 52 weeks/year x 15 $/hour = $27,825
less 7.65% FICA tax = $25,696 before state and/or local income tax.
Still not a lot of money to support a single worker, let alone a family.
And in the aggregate: Lets say on average these workers are making 75% of that now. So if that were true the cost would be 10,000 x 1.0765 (with FICA) x 25% x 27,825, or just slightly less than $75 million per year. Less than 1% of NYS's annual expenditures.
less 7.65% FICA tax = $25,696 before state and/or local income tax.
Still not a lot of money to support a single worker, let alone a family.
And in the aggregate: Lets say on average these workers are making 75% of that now. So if that were true the cost would be 10,000 x 1.0765 (with FICA) x 25% x 27,825, or just slightly less than $75 million per year. Less than 1% of NYS's annual expenditures.
10
Average rental rates in NY (no doubt spiked by NYC) is $2,634 a month or $31,608 a year. In NJ it's $1,772 a month or $21,264 a year. So where do $25,696 a year earners live? Not in the communities where they work. Now take out a contribution to a pension or a % for retirement. Then try to grocery shop or have a bus pass, or an '86 Ford Taurus to get to work. Times are lousy for the sub $100k earners in NY. Trust me, it's much worse for the sub $28k earners.
6
Carol - while those now receiving less than $15/hr are lifted to that level they will pass by coworkers currently making more than $15/hr - like their supervisors. Don't you think there will be a ripple effect throughout the entire wage structure? Of course there will.
2
So, I once supported myself on $4.25/hr 40 hours per week. That was the minimum wage in 1994. It wasn't in fast food - it was in production design at a local pennysaver paper. I was going to school full time community college as well, and I also picked up a 2nd job paying around $7, part time, in an office. I WANTED to be good at something and worked hard to make that happen. I'm STILL working hard to meet my goals.
I have worked my butt off. Nobody handed me anything, I never asked for help, and I never expected any. If $15 still isn't cutting it at full time hours, get a second (part time) job. If you can't afford a family, don't have one. If you want to make more money, learn to be good at something that will pay more money. Nobody is "good at flipping burgers." My first job was Burger King. $4.25, 1991. I worked with a bunch of idiots, including the management. It takes literally zero skill to work at most fast food places. If you want to make more, work hard to learn a skill that will pay more. If you just want to make more and complain when you don't get paid what you feel you're entitled to, then keep on keeping on.
I have worked my butt off. Nobody handed me anything, I never asked for help, and I never expected any. If $15 still isn't cutting it at full time hours, get a second (part time) job. If you can't afford a family, don't have one. If you want to make more money, learn to be good at something that will pay more money. Nobody is "good at flipping burgers." My first job was Burger King. $4.25, 1991. I worked with a bunch of idiots, including the management. It takes literally zero skill to work at most fast food places. If you want to make more, work hard to learn a skill that will pay more. If you just want to make more and complain when you don't get paid what you feel you're entitled to, then keep on keeping on.
3
"I believe that if you work hard and work full time..."
I believe this too. Now, how are you going to ensure everyone is worth $15 per hour, governor? These are, after all, our tax dollars, not your funds to use as you wish.
I believe this too. Now, how are you going to ensure everyone is worth $15 per hour, governor? These are, after all, our tax dollars, not your funds to use as you wish.
15
Concern for tax dollars over a rise in state wages when those same tax dollars currently are going toward SNAP benefits make NO sense.
Stop expecting people to work for free on your behalf. Why should other people suffer just because your employer refuses to raise your own salary to offset a rise in taxes? Leave cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, and teachers alone, and take up your argument with the air-sucking private sector, where it belongs.
Stop expecting people to work for free on your behalf. Why should other people suffer just because your employer refuses to raise your own salary to offset a rise in taxes? Leave cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, and teachers alone, and take up your argument with the air-sucking private sector, where it belongs.
9
The second earner in a two earner couple doesn't get SNAP.
3
God bless the poor...their ignorance is being used as a tool against them by politicians who seek to reap the vote. So 60% of minimum wage earners rely on other minimum wage earners for their livelihood. When they start realizing they're having to pay more themselves they'll then realized the meaning of cutting off your noses to spite your face. Meanwhile, wealthy people do rely on the minimum wage earners nearly as much. Sad face but you get what you vote for.
6
I just hope he's also willing to cut some of those public jobs by means of innovation, technology, and so forth.
I am annoyed seeing 5 people do the job of 3 people because of whatever.
Usually 2 people working and 3 people watching those 2 people working. (I understand they might need 1 person to be lookout but do you really need 3 people being lookout?) Do you need 10 paperpushers for a job that really is a 2 + good system upgrade paperpusher job?
If you want to help people with dignity, fix the housing problem, promote sex-ed (including abortions, sterilizations, and birth-control), and promote real education or skills/technical so forth to those who are willing to maintain their grades and their work ethic. As much as I love the humanities, real skills are skills you can use in the general work force.
I am annoyed seeing 5 people do the job of 3 people because of whatever.
Usually 2 people working and 3 people watching those 2 people working. (I understand they might need 1 person to be lookout but do you really need 3 people being lookout?) Do you need 10 paperpushers for a job that really is a 2 + good system upgrade paperpusher job?
If you want to help people with dignity, fix the housing problem, promote sex-ed (including abortions, sterilizations, and birth-control), and promote real education or skills/technical so forth to those who are willing to maintain their grades and their work ethic. As much as I love the humanities, real skills are skills you can use in the general work force.
12
On the surface, I suppose it's an attempt to do "something", anyway. Maybe his next move should be for a "maximum wage" and see how far he gets with that idea.
Do you suppose, that in the absence of the later, all raising the minimum wage will do is to justify increasing wages at the top? As if those at the top felt any compunction about hesitating to do so anyway, regardless.
Do you suppose, that in the absence of the later, all raising the minimum wage will do is to justify increasing wages at the top? As if those at the top felt any compunction about hesitating to do so anyway, regardless.
Not sure how many state workers are paid less than $15 per hour worked. Article provides examples such as lifeguards, office assistants and custodial staff. Presumably there is more skill to be a lifeguard than the other two job classifications, and for the life of me cannot fathom how many state lifeguards there are.
Anyway - where in the article is there discussion on how these wage increases will be paid for? What cutbacks are necessary in order to balance the budget? Or how will additional revenue be raised in order to fill in the gap? It's easy to sign an executive order; but where are the details? I assume that Cuomo actually needs the state assembly to pass a bill that raises taxes.
Anyway - where in the article is there discussion on how these wage increases will be paid for? What cutbacks are necessary in order to balance the budget? Or how will additional revenue be raised in order to fill in the gap? It's easy to sign an executive order; but where are the details? I assume that Cuomo actually needs the state assembly to pass a bill that raises taxes.
5
Only a few months ago, Professor Alan B. Krueger, the economist whose work is most often cited in support of increasing the minimum wage, wrote an opinion piece in the New York Times titled "The Minimum Wage: How Much Is Too Much?" He said: "Those who want to see it rise to $15 might end up harming some of the people they hope to help." SEE http://nyti.ms/1QdLm0C
How does Andrew Cuomo know better than Alan Krueger that $15 won't do do more harm than good?
How does Andrew Cuomo know better than Alan Krueger that $15 won't do do more harm than good?
7
I strongly believe that Mr. Cuomo is solving only half the problem. In order to pay for this measure, what is required is a MAXIMUM WAGE for NYS administrators (this would include our politicians as well as appointees, commissioners etc). For every dollar per hour increase in minimum wage amortized over 10,000 workers there should a 10,000 dollar decrease per high level administrator/politician. The numbers guys can work it out - this way the taxpayers will not bear the burden of Mr. Cuomo's largesse for political purposes and the most highly paid will feel a camaraderie with the 'common' NYer they serve with such selfless diligence.
8
By the time this kicks in it will be virtually worthless given inflation. Anyone opposing this measure should think about how much their taxes go to subsidize wages that are not sufficient enough to be a living wage.
3
Did I miss it? I'd love to know what the minimum wage is for NY state workers now. Just to put it in perspective, what kind of a pay bump are we talking about? Yes yes I know, I can look it up on Google.
4
10,000 employees x 40 hrs a week is 400,000 hrs x $6 raise is $2,400,000/wk x 52 weeks a yr is $124,800,000 /yr. He gave his people a nice raise with your money.
12
So do the agencies that have to employ these workers not have a state budget? Where does this magical $124M a year come from? If an agency does not get a budget increase, but has to pay out $15/Hr for the custodial staff, what do you think happens? They make do with fewer people and somebody loses their job.
1
$8.75 is not a livable wage for NYS, by any means. The conversations being had of fast food workers making demands of $15 an hour, and while this figure may be a bit of a large leap, the concept behind the demand is not that outrageous. These people are working long and hard, only to continue to live in poverty. Wage adjustments must be made to keep on par with the rising costs of living, especially in a place like NY. Groceries alone are up to 39% higher in NY than the national average. Let's not even talk about housing. As far as tax dollars are concerned: I would rather have my tax dollars funding those who are working and will now get higher wages, over someone who is milking the unemployment system because they are making more from unemployment benefits than if they were to work for the current worker's wages.
15
So, how many are making min. wage today? Are those people living with parents? Do they have a plan going forward to get into a better job? Does their spouse also work? Do they have kids of their own?
But, I will say that groceries are up everywhere and I cannot for the life of me understand why the government keeps lying about inflation. They need to include food and energy - inflation escalated over the last years because the government wouldn't post accurate results. This too keeps salaries down.
But, I will say that groceries are up everywhere and I cannot for the life of me understand why the government keeps lying about inflation. They need to include food and energy - inflation escalated over the last years because the government wouldn't post accurate results. This too keeps salaries down.
"But Mr. Cuomo’s action is the first time a governor has raised wages to $15 for so many state employees." Let's not get too far ahead of reality. The man is currently only talking about doing this in three years.
8
In Australia, if you paid American minimum wage as it now is, you'd probably get arrested. In the States, apparently being a cheapskate with the economic instincts of a roadkill makes you some kind of saint. Think of the amount of money that $15 will put in to Main Street. Tens of billions in to local economies, nationwide. This is a New Deal, perhaps, but at least minimum wage earners are getting some better cards. Maybe some will be able to afford their NY rent and even be able to pay their bills, or is that socialism?
6
Australia was able to afford its generosity for one reason only--the commodities boom. Now that it has ended, let's see how long this will last.
Great! Now waiting in a very long line for service will cost me even more.
3
Remember when Cuomo was going to build a Convention Center in Queens? Yeah, that never happened. Remember when Cuomo was going "clean up Albany", yeah that never happened. Cuomo talks about tax subsidies from McDonalds yet he is the financial beneficiary of LLC donations connected to some of these fast food companies.
4
yeah and there is no inflation in america.
Just pockets of hyperinflation and areas of deflation so the Fed averages them out so that they can keep on dropping money over the hyperinflating parts where their cronies live.
Just pockets of hyperinflation and areas of deflation so the Fed averages them out so that they can keep on dropping money over the hyperinflating parts where their cronies live.
How much is a job worth? That depends on whether it's Labor buyers market or a Labor seller's market. One way of determining, "What's a job worth"? is saying "How much is the labor purchaser, on average, willing to pay for the labor"? Another way of determining this is asking, "How much is the labor seller willing to take"?
Let's say I'm going to build a swimming pool. I'm Mr. moneybags. I'm willing to pay someone $10K to dig the hole and move the dirt. That's what it's worth to me. However, lets say there's a glut of labor. Someone might be willing to dig the hole for $5K. Now, is that job worth $5K or $10K? That depends on whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market.
One of the consequences of globalization is that much of our labor has been outsourced to foreign lands where it's cheaper. That means we have a glut of labor here--greatly depressing the growth of wages.
How did people come up with $15/hour? Because, if the minimum wage had risen with the pace of inflation, that's what it would be right now, approximately.
Through no fault of their own, our labor workers are now making less, adjusted for inflation then they were 20 years ago.
The point of globalization was to make the pie bigger for everyone. We should be sharing this pie with everyone. There's no reason why 1% of the population should be getting 5 or 6 pieces of pie while 50% of the population is now only getting a half a piece of pie.
Let's say I'm going to build a swimming pool. I'm Mr. moneybags. I'm willing to pay someone $10K to dig the hole and move the dirt. That's what it's worth to me. However, lets say there's a glut of labor. Someone might be willing to dig the hole for $5K. Now, is that job worth $5K or $10K? That depends on whether it's a buyers market or a sellers market.
One of the consequences of globalization is that much of our labor has been outsourced to foreign lands where it's cheaper. That means we have a glut of labor here--greatly depressing the growth of wages.
How did people come up with $15/hour? Because, if the minimum wage had risen with the pace of inflation, that's what it would be right now, approximately.
Through no fault of their own, our labor workers are now making less, adjusted for inflation then they were 20 years ago.
The point of globalization was to make the pie bigger for everyone. We should be sharing this pie with everyone. There's no reason why 1% of the population should be getting 5 or 6 pieces of pie while 50% of the population is now only getting a half a piece of pie.
5
It is a hoot listening to the outrage of people who neither live, nor probably ever visited NY State but whose "free market" principles require them to defend it wherever they perceive a threat - though exclusively on the back of the common man. Though they might be 1000 miles away, they snarl as if someone is snatching the food right out of their mouths.
10
God bless Andrew Cuomo. Whatever his faults he is at least trying to help those people who are working and struggling to make ends meet. Are there any other governors out there listening?
3
Why would there ever be movement on such issues? If you think it is because of some secret Leninist inclination on the part of the political machines that are sponsoring this, in many places, please.
It is occurring because those who are paid very well to monitor the state of labor realize things are too close to getting to beyond socially tolerable. This is a movement condoned by the right. This is no hand out. It is an attempt at bolstering the barricade.
It is occurring because those who are paid very well to monitor the state of labor realize things are too close to getting to beyond socially tolerable. This is a movement condoned by the right. This is no hand out. It is an attempt at bolstering the barricade.
5
The problem is that nearly all entry level and support jobs will be contract jobs, where people have no real sick-time benefits and can be fired if someone would rather hire somebody with nicer hair
4
Sounds great, as long as the state does not outsource Custodial Services.
Anyone have any first hand knowledge about that issue in regards to the State of New York?
Locally, the city relies on community service "volunteers" from Drug Court for at least part of their Custodial work. Some of them prefer it, it is a less unpleasant job than working off the community service obligation sorting recyclables.
Anyone have any first hand knowledge about that issue in regards to the State of New York?
Locally, the city relies on community service "volunteers" from Drug Court for at least part of their Custodial work. Some of them prefer it, it is a less unpleasant job than working off the community service obligation sorting recyclables.
1
so many mean spirited comments - its scary
8
In western NY we are already losing taxpaying citizens and businesses in droves. A smaller and smaller tax base is being forced to bear the burden of ever increasing spending. This is not going to end well.
2
Yes, I do agree.....if you work a full time job, you deserve the respect of your community and the ability to live decently...$15/hr for two working parents is not going to support a sumptuous lifestyle, but hopefully it will lift them out of poverty and give dignity to their lives. And I for one am proud to live in NY State and yes, I will gladly pay more taxes to help those in need.
7
I'm fine with this but has anyone done any real research or study into what the best minimum wage would actually be? Because $15 sounds like some convenient round number that was plucked from thin air, not the result of accurate financial study or research.
1
Just for the record . . . $15.00 an hour x 2080 hours (40 hrs. x 52 weeks) only comes out to $31,200 a year. On the surface, the hourly increase appears to be a lot, but who (or what family) can live on less than $32,000 a year in New York? Kudos to Gov. Cuomo for his efforts, but in all reality, the underpaid state worker will still be making a meager living, even with this wage increase.
31
Most state and city employees work 35hr/wk, with an unpaid lunch hour off the clock. So, the amount is $27,300. As the story said this will affect lifeguards and other seasonals. The raise could be significant for custodial staff, but I'm assuming that this move will not impact many employees. Like so much of what Cuomo does, it's a symbolic gesture. After all, how much could minimum wage employees contribute to the governor's war chest? It's like their faux education reformers who run hedge funds for-profit charter school types like Eva Moskowitz making $400,000! I'm sure Shylock gets his pound of flesh for anything he does.
3
Thank you for the corrected intel. Much appreciated.
3
In much of Upstate NY, $32K per year, which would equate to $64K/yr for a two income family, is an ok living when you can usually get a nice two bedroom apartment or even buy a home for $1200/month or less. The high cost of living, lead by high housing costs and onerous taxes, is what's stretching so many working class employees in NYC, LI and Westchester.
3
More money and maybe the same effort. Who is paying for this? The taxpayer, of course, and that's who is paying for the governor's largesse. So upstate private workers will get market wages and State workers market plus wages and market plus benefits. Sounds like a recipe for continued decline upstate.
14
Bill, if the market demanded slave labor as a price of a job, would that be acceptable. If you think about it, working at 9 or 10 dollars an hour is little different. You ask who is paying for it, and the answer is society pays for keeping a large segment of the workforce at starvation wages, which is what current minimums are. We it not for the largesse of food stamps, medicaid, and other safety net programs, the working poor would simply die of hunger and disease.
7
It is a worthwhile investment. Since when is investing in people a bad thing, as opposed to giving tax breaks to McDonalds, Chick Fil A, Verizon, Sprint, and on an on and on. WHy aren't you complaining about that Largesse? And the workers in these slave shops won't benefit from a wage increase. WHo can live on $15 an hour, and don't even begin to say that they don't deserve it because they didn't work hard enough to go to college, when poor people can't even get a fair shake with public education. Hang it up, Bill....your POV increasingly is ending up on the wrong side of history.
5
Perhaps New York State could mark the occasion by offering a fair contract to members of the Professional Staff Congress, CUNY, whose members have been without a contract for the last five years. Part-time faculty are sorely in need of a raise to help with the rising cost of living.
12
For the second year in a row there will be no increase in Social Security since the Federal government says there is no inflation. If there is no inflation, why does your group of workers deserve any increase except for increases based on merit and results?
2
$15 a hour is "such a high wage?" For 10,000 people? By 2021? Zowie, hold me back. Think we can afford such radiant and glorious generosity, oh noble and exulted one?
15
Looks like Cuomo wants the Democratic nomination for president in 2020.
10
In a state where the people already pay huge taxes to maintain a social structure that includes illegal aliens on the public dole, the welfare state of NY is leading the taxpayers down the path to insolvency, thanks to an ignorant liberal governor. The taxpayers are leaving the state of NY in droves because of bad decisions by the liberal democrats, and are being replaced by the entitlement crowd ready to suck the life out of the remaining taxpayers. The liberal democrats have ruined the once great state of NY with their economic stupidity, with ideas like this.
14
I will not get a raise in my Social Security because there is no inflation, yet somehow food for the table, energy to heat my house, school taxes, town taxes, and restaurant meals have gone up to name just a few. Now the state is going to increase the wages of its workers, general state minimum wage will go up too, so there is another rung on my ladder of "you pays". And I am not alone. Far too many still in the workforce have not seen a decent raise for years. So I am sorry, please do not play your politics on my game board.
17
How will the increase in costs be paid? Isn't there already a budget deficit in NY? Is his thinking centered on adding to the deficit or raising taxes to pay for this executive action? I can see the minimum wage state employees being ecstatic about the unearned windfall, but I doubt the NY taxpayer will be as enthusiastic.
7
I am not sure how giving the already overpaid government bureaucrat yet another pay raise does anything at all to "fight poverty"....but OK, I'm gullible. Go for it.
8
I think how it works is that state workers earning less than $15/hour in New York City would be assured of earning that princely sum by 2018. These are hardly overpaid government bureaucrats.
That money will remain in the state's economy.
That money will remain in the state's economy.
5
Cuomo took a baby step by limiting the raises to state employees. While he does not have the power to set the minimum wage for all private sector workers, he likely can require that workers for state contractors receive the minimum wage. By not taking this step, he has limited himself to a largely symbolic measure.
2
Watch what happens when the businesses lay off 40-50% of the workers and replace them with automation or specialized services.
And wait until fast food burgers double in price and the people who rely on fast food for a lot of their meals can't eat for a reasonable price anymore.
And wait until fast food burgers double in price and the people who rely on fast food for a lot of their meals can't eat for a reasonable price anymore.
13
Fast food workers are not government workers
1
There is more than enough for everyone. Globalization has increased the nations GDP substantially over the past 20 years. That means there is more to go around. But, it doesn't feel that way does it?
Everyone is working harder and producing more--that's a fact. But it feels like we suffer from scarcity. It feels like there's not enough. We don't like to hear about raising taxes, or any policies that might cause our taxes to rise, because all of us are already concerned about our future, the rising cost of housing, health insurance education, etc ....
Remember, we have more now, then 30 years ago. An attitude of scarcity is contagious. It breeds scarcity based policies, scarcity based behaviors and scarcity based perceptions. Around and around we go.
An attitude of abundance is also contagious. It breeds abundance based policies, abundance based behaviors and abundance based perceptions.
Globalization means that as a whole, the nation has more than it had before. We just aren't distributing it evenly. If we distribute it more evenly, we all feel the abundance that was the promise of globalization.
Everyone is working harder and producing more--that's a fact. But it feels like we suffer from scarcity. It feels like there's not enough. We don't like to hear about raising taxes, or any policies that might cause our taxes to rise, because all of us are already concerned about our future, the rising cost of housing, health insurance education, etc ....
Remember, we have more now, then 30 years ago. An attitude of scarcity is contagious. It breeds scarcity based policies, scarcity based behaviors and scarcity based perceptions. Around and around we go.
An attitude of abundance is also contagious. It breeds abundance based policies, abundance based behaviors and abundance based perceptions.
Globalization means that as a whole, the nation has more than it had before. We just aren't distributing it evenly. If we distribute it more evenly, we all feel the abundance that was the promise of globalization.
4
I could not agree more. The monetary system is predicated on artificial scarcity. No one wants to tell us truth - that there's plenty to go around. That everyone can have more today than they did yesterday because there is more today than there was yesterday.
I disagree that we will ever feel it.
The Top 1% in the WORLD is approximately 47.5K
The Top 15% in the WORLD is approximately 12K
China, India and other countries are rising both education wise and skills wise.
A majority of the low income workers who do not add value easily are going to be replaced by machines, or cheaper human capital that can do the job from the otherside of the world. The jobs that are the safest are likely those of nurses and caretakers of the wealthy.
Simply put, the world has too many people.
Workers rights started with the Black Death. Less people gives those people more power to negotiate. We don't have that and we never will have that unless we suffer a huge human loss or we cut ourselves off to create an artificial shortage or expand to outer space.. Instead, the people of the US either have to be content sharing their pie with the world, or try to force corporations to increase the size of their pies.
Most corporations are not nationalistic by virtue of too many owners. (Stockholders) This means they will seek cheaper and better ways of doing business. All Cuomo is doing in reality is making it easier for businesses to justify going to XYZ state or invert to a different country with lower tax rates.
The Top 1% in the WORLD is approximately 47.5K
The Top 15% in the WORLD is approximately 12K
China, India and other countries are rising both education wise and skills wise.
A majority of the low income workers who do not add value easily are going to be replaced by machines, or cheaper human capital that can do the job from the otherside of the world. The jobs that are the safest are likely those of nurses and caretakers of the wealthy.
Simply put, the world has too many people.
Workers rights started with the Black Death. Less people gives those people more power to negotiate. We don't have that and we never will have that unless we suffer a huge human loss or we cut ourselves off to create an artificial shortage or expand to outer space.. Instead, the people of the US either have to be content sharing their pie with the world, or try to force corporations to increase the size of their pies.
Most corporations are not nationalistic by virtue of too many owners. (Stockholders) This means they will seek cheaper and better ways of doing business. All Cuomo is doing in reality is making it easier for businesses to justify going to XYZ state or invert to a different country with lower tax rates.
1
Sounds good. Government employees usually create something more tangible, something we all need (records, permits, etc).
Maybe this will give them an incentive to help the people who depends on them.
Maybe this will give them an incentive to help the people who depends on them.
2
And what do we taxpayers get for funding this increase in wages? Better customer service? Short lines? Less incompetence?
Oh, nothing? They just get a raise for showing up to work? What a joke!
Oh, nothing? They just get a raise for showing up to work? What a joke!
29
Perhaps like you Dennis. Investing in people is a winning strategy.
6
I think what they might see is fewer people caught in the poverty cycle and more able to inch forward into the middle class. That is good for all of us.
9
IUDs and Norplant would help them inch out of poverty a lot more cost-effectively.
3
As per usual, progressives don't care how things get done, no matter how authoritarian or dictatorial, so long as they get what they want. When progressives lose elections (or votes in an assembly) they denigrate democracy and call its legitimacy into question. It's only when they win that they sing democracy's praises. Today's authoritarian progressives are everything the founding fathers warned about and more.
14
Has anyone in Albany done an analysis of what this will cost the NY taxpayer and where all the new money is going to come from? In my household, I don't spend money that I don't have. Isn't that the prudent thing to do?
25
Right, but you have to understand that at less than $15 an hour, you can barely make enough to live on your own. You practically automatically qualify for public assistance in many ways, because even if you were to save EVERY penny, you still wouldn't be able to afford proper health insurance, car payments, transportation, food, rent, etc.
All those things are far more expensive in a place like New York City, so raising the minimum wage give workers an opportunity to properly pay into their costs of living, not having tax payers who can theoretically afford it bail them out.
It's not like the McDonald's worker who works part time for 9.50 is just spending it lavishly and irresponsibly. They're barely able to afford to live, and in a place like NYC that is increasingly more expensive, the wages need to be increased in order for people to live there. Even on an annual income of 30-35, it's incredibly difficult to afford to live on a month-to-month basis, let alone provide for a child or spouse. On top of that, there's people my age who have student loans which absorb a significant portion of paychecks.
All those things are far more expensive in a place like New York City, so raising the minimum wage give workers an opportunity to properly pay into their costs of living, not having tax payers who can theoretically afford it bail them out.
It's not like the McDonald's worker who works part time for 9.50 is just spending it lavishly and irresponsibly. They're barely able to afford to live, and in a place like NYC that is increasingly more expensive, the wages need to be increased in order for people to live there. Even on an annual income of 30-35, it's incredibly difficult to afford to live on a month-to-month basis, let alone provide for a child or spouse. On top of that, there's people my age who have student loans which absorb a significant portion of paychecks.
1
I would believe that higher wages make more people pay NYS and NYC income tax and also reduced their eligibility for the state Earned Income Tax Credit?
Perhaps the state and city will actually save tax dollars by making employers cough up the extra few thousand dollars rather than taxpayers? That is unless they close up shop or relocate jobs outside of the state.
* Republican speaking here.
Perhaps the state and city will actually save tax dollars by making employers cough up the extra few thousand dollars rather than taxpayers? That is unless they close up shop or relocate jobs outside of the state.
* Republican speaking here.
Easy, Anita. The funds come from the increased tax receipts on the burger flippers and shelf-stockers. As a matter of fact, the civil employees will pay more in taxes as well, contributing to their own wages. Don't forget that the newly "rich" minimum wage workers will also be boosting the economy overall with their spending, increasing sales tax receipts.
Oh, let me count the ways...
Oh, let me count the ways...
1
Why $15? How'd you come up with that magic number? Why not $20 or even $50? Is there a way to find the optimal number? I think we all know the answer. It's called a free market economy which has served this country well for over 200 years but the libs on this blog are too idealistic and foolish to understand that. Cuomo is a foolish panderer and has learned nothing about economics.
9
Economics, it seems, might be more complicated. What about the workers at Walmart on public assistance? Or the lack of demand caused by low wages? What goes around comes around.
5
Because that is what will bring the purchasing power of the minimum wage back to what it was in 1968.
3
"....said Paul Sonn, general counsel at the National Employment Law Project, a nonprofit group based in New York, which advocates for higher wages. “And it shows real leadership from the governor.
He’s a smart politician and he’s throwing his weight behind a winning political and economic issue.”...
Yeah, he sure is a politician as smart as the snake was when he fooled those 2 to eat the apple.
He sure is a snake for sure.
He’s a smart politician and he’s throwing his weight behind a winning political and economic issue.”...
Yeah, he sure is a politician as smart as the snake was when he fooled those 2 to eat the apple.
He sure is a snake for sure.
3
Great. What about those individuals that have worked hard learning and earning? Will their incomes be adjusted upward? Probably not. They are essentially receiving a pay cut.
Basically, a person working in McDonalds can now earn entry level pay for a college graduate.
Basically, a person working in McDonalds can now earn entry level pay for a college graduate.
4
The increase applies only to state workers. Always a good idea to read an article before commenting.
Hard to beat Chicago.
Over a third of all city workers earn > $100,000 per year.
~My kind of town, Chicago is~
Over a third of all city workers earn > $100,000 per year.
~My kind of town, Chicago is~
5
A source for your data would be greatly appreciated.
People should be paid what they're worth and the work they do, not what they demand. If you want fifteen dollars an hour, great. But what makes you think that with the growing populations in countries around the would coupled with the expanding reach of technology that a business can't find someone in another country with different wage laws that will do the same work at a lower wage?
But hey, what do conservatives know about business.
But hey, what do conservatives know about business.
6
Ot's the "I've got mine, so who cares about them" philosophy.
Somebody has to do these jobs, and it is my guess that you would never do them.
We have essentially legalized slavery.
No job should pay less than what it takes to cover basic needs.
Somebody has to do these jobs, and it is my guess that you would never do them.
We have essentially legalized slavery.
No job should pay less than what it takes to cover basic needs.
13
So you are recommending a raise to the bottom with the entire world?
1
"But what makes you think that with the growing populations in countries around the would coupled with the expanding reach of technology that a business can't find someone in another country with different wage laws that will do the same work at a lower wage?"
Great idea! Let's start with doctors. Lots of great doctors and surgeons in other countries who would be lots cheaper. Lawyers, too. And pharma producers! Drugs can be made in other countries for 20% or less than our current pharma monopolies. And cable TV, the internet, cellular service...all of them are cheaper and faster in almost every other country on earth! Let's get our services from them. And let's open up the markets to insurance, investment, and banking products, too. I wonder how much Ryan Air would charge to get me from JFK to San Francisco? And hey, let's drop subsidies and protections to Big Ag and Boeing and see how they fare? Bet we could get prices down big time. Yeah, just getting started...totally awesome idea you got there.
Great idea! Let's start with doctors. Lots of great doctors and surgeons in other countries who would be lots cheaper. Lawyers, too. And pharma producers! Drugs can be made in other countries for 20% or less than our current pharma monopolies. And cable TV, the internet, cellular service...all of them are cheaper and faster in almost every other country on earth! Let's get our services from them. And let's open up the markets to insurance, investment, and banking products, too. I wonder how much Ryan Air would charge to get me from JFK to San Francisco? And hey, let's drop subsidies and protections to Big Ag and Boeing and see how they fare? Bet we could get prices down big time. Yeah, just getting started...totally awesome idea you got there.
1
Sure, he' jumping on a band wagon. What would be really cool would be him acting as lead band-wagoner and creating $25 minimum wage!
Cuomo is not stupid.
?s
Why is this not in place already - how long has Cuomo been in charge?
What percentage of NY state (and NYC) employees get ONLY minimum wages?
How will this affect the pay of the employees above the entry level jobs - as in those whose pay is tied to a percent above the lowest pay? This is a common Union feature, a point used by most employers to resist increasing minimum wages?
Why is this not in place already - how long has Cuomo been in charge?
What percentage of NY state (and NYC) employees get ONLY minimum wages?
How will this affect the pay of the employees above the entry level jobs - as in those whose pay is tied to a percent above the lowest pay? This is a common Union feature, a point used by most employers to resist increasing minimum wages?
2
A governor who gets the job done from same sex marriage to an increased minimum wage.
1
As he is applying this to a select group of state employees, what happens to the wages of state employees that now earn $15/hr? It's not addressed in this article although I can deduce the next step. But why is it not covered?
4
If America truly respects the value of work, then no one should have any problems with raising the minimum wage.
4
If America respects economics, then they should be careful about doing so.
Or maybe he could transfer them to Wisconsin where they would achieve immediate serfdom status
5
@Jesse McKinley - How many folks on the payroll today will see an increase in pay as a result of this and what is the estimated total cost from the increase is wages? Does it apply to all public workers (interns, part-timers)?
According to the article, it's 10,000 workers. But there will be fallout, as unionized workers assert that if the folks at the bottom got raises, the rest of them need raises too.
1
This makes for a nice headline, but what about the mountain of other issues facing NYS employees?
Are you finally going to end the 2 week lag on 2 week paychecks so new employees don't have to go their entire first month of work without seeing a dime?
Are you going to stop letting the unions "negotiate" for health insurance plans that only reimburse doctors at the Medicare/Medicaid rate, thus making it almost impossible for many upstate employees to find a general physician who will accept their coverage?
What about the current disaster that is our civil service system, with painfully easy exams that push superior candidates down to a lowest common denominator where thousands of others sit with the same "perfect" score they got? The entire issue with "list blockers" that wastes god knows how many man hours trying to get unfit candidates off civil service eligibility? The job canvassing system that just adds an entire layer of bureaucracy that helps no one?
Or how about our pension system, where union bosses pressured NYS decades ago into allowing new retirement tiers where employees got to stop paying into their pension at a certain point? Now the system is barely solvent and new employees are forced to pay into horribly gimped tiers they'll likely never see a dime from.
But that wouldn't get you front page on the NYT, would it?
Are you finally going to end the 2 week lag on 2 week paychecks so new employees don't have to go their entire first month of work without seeing a dime?
Are you going to stop letting the unions "negotiate" for health insurance plans that only reimburse doctors at the Medicare/Medicaid rate, thus making it almost impossible for many upstate employees to find a general physician who will accept their coverage?
What about the current disaster that is our civil service system, with painfully easy exams that push superior candidates down to a lowest common denominator where thousands of others sit with the same "perfect" score they got? The entire issue with "list blockers" that wastes god knows how many man hours trying to get unfit candidates off civil service eligibility? The job canvassing system that just adds an entire layer of bureaucracy that helps no one?
Or how about our pension system, where union bosses pressured NYS decades ago into allowing new retirement tiers where employees got to stop paying into their pension at a certain point? Now the system is barely solvent and new employees are forced to pay into horribly gimped tiers they'll likely never see a dime from.
But that wouldn't get you front page on the NYT, would it?
5
Thankfully, New York is a low tax state which can absorb this increase.
And with job growth so robust in the state, especially upstate, there shouldn't be any unintended consequences of these actions on business in general.
Cuomo is indeed a genius circumventing the will of the the elected representatives of the people in Albany. What do they (the people as well as their reps) know anyway ?
Apparently only Cuomo knows what's best for everyone.
And with job growth so robust in the state, especially upstate, there shouldn't be any unintended consequences of these actions on business in general.
Cuomo is indeed a genius circumventing the will of the the elected representatives of the people in Albany. What do they (the people as well as their reps) know anyway ?
Apparently only Cuomo knows what's best for everyone.
16
Another Demorat playing Santa Claus with other people's money. It keeps the sheep in the cote.
22
OMG - this portends the second coming of Christ and the end of Earth as we know it. Signed, Republicans Everywhere!
4
well, that's what they wish for in the first place so everybody should be happy!
1
Why not give New York City control over it's own minimum wage, Governor?
Is it so that you can periodically appear before the cameras with these incremental increases and cast yourself as a progressive?
Enjoy the next 2 years in that office. You'll be saying goodbye in 2018 as New Yorkers elect a true progressive. Bharara, Teachout, Schneiderman- they'd all be better than the sleazy obstructionist that sits in Albany today.
Is it so that you can periodically appear before the cameras with these incremental increases and cast yourself as a progressive?
Enjoy the next 2 years in that office. You'll be saying goodbye in 2018 as New Yorkers elect a true progressive. Bharara, Teachout, Schneiderman- they'd all be better than the sleazy obstructionist that sits in Albany today.
13
In brief, increases in the minimum wage increase the price floor in labor markets for lower paid workers-- meaning regardless of market conditions, their wages cannot drop below this floor. As a result, a number of marginal workers near this floor will inevitably be pushed into a negative ROI to their employers as per past accounting metrics because of this wage increase. This is an almost incontrovertible logical argument. The increase in this artificial wage floor, below which wages can not dip, will marginally increase the number of unemployed workers, almost automatically. However, minimum wage workers have very high marginal propensities to consume (MPC) their disposable incomes. Only a small amount of these minimum wage increases will be saved, by necessity. Thus, almost all of this money will be channeled into consumption spending. and, at a time when many companies are struggling to maintain, much less increase their revenues, this increase in consumption will increase aggregate demand. A stimulus that is direly needed by some retail firms. Thus, as many workers struggle with declining real wages over the last 15 years, a cost/benefit question arises. Does the benefit of this stimulus to aggregate demand and its magnifier effects increase employment sufficiently to cover the almost ineluctable marginal increase in unemployment of lower paid workers near the floor that accompanies this minimum wage hike? [11/10, Tues., 4:08 p.m.; Greenville, NC]
Does anyone know what is the financial impact is on the taxpayers? I didn't see it in the article. With only 10,000 jobs, I can't believe it will have a significant impact on NY's budget... or maybe it will. Who knows.
2
to eliminate poverty? make it $100. per hour.
4
$ 100 per hour; you elitist it should be $ 100,000 per hour. It can be raised without any impact on jobs; isn't that what the liberals are saying. The sky is the limit from here.
5
Absolutely. $100 per hour. And eliminate pensions in the same legislation.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Thanks, New York. Thanks for chasing your residents out of NY to other parts of the country because soon everything in NY will be unaffordable.
24
Val in Brooklyn, NY to Steven Gordon in TX
No arguments there. I've recently lost a family member to Detroit, MI. After years here, he gave up and moved. He's an artist. He's now also a homeowner. Beautiful house near the river and eventually he's be a Canadian citizen.
Smart man. Unless you're a zillionare, NY is ok for visiting, not for living. And, no, not only was I not born here, I hope not to spend the rest of my life here if I can help it.
Submitted 11-10-15@4:06 p.m. EST
No arguments there. I've recently lost a family member to Detroit, MI. After years here, he gave up and moved. He's an artist. He's now also a homeowner. Beautiful house near the river and eventually he's be a Canadian citizen.
Smart man. Unless you're a zillionare, NY is ok for visiting, not for living. And, no, not only was I not born here, I hope not to spend the rest of my life here if I can help it.
Submitted 11-10-15@4:06 p.m. EST
3
Nonsense
We need National Laws and stop this business driven chasing of jobs in the name of "states rights"
"States Rights" is holding back the USA!
We need one set of labor, voting, civil, legal, tort, health, and sicentific laws in the USA
We need National Laws and stop this business driven chasing of jobs in the name of "states rights"
"States Rights" is holding back the USA!
We need one set of labor, voting, civil, legal, tort, health, and sicentific laws in the USA
4
In addition there won't be any entry level jobs. No apprenticeship here.
In 1972, my min wage summer job was 2.30 pr hour. That equates to about $14 today with the skimpy CPI index that gov't uses. So I have no problem with $15 being the base. And the chorus of the Chamber of Commerce that chants 'jobs will be lost' has never proved to be true beyond an initial 6 mos.
77
thank you for being rational
1
min wage was not 2.30/hr in 72. i was making 1.85 in 76
My summer job at Jones Beach during the summer of 1978 was $2.65/hour. It probably comes out to the $14 in today's value you posted.
2
It's always very easy to spend other people's money.
When you have to write the check yourself you will certainly think twice.
Let all state NYS public retirees pay NYS taxes on their pensions like everyone else, that might help to pay for this.
When you have to write the check yourself you will certainly think twice.
Let all state NYS public retirees pay NYS taxes on their pensions like everyone else, that might help to pay for this.
37
State employees do pay taxes on their pensions - at least if you're Tier 4 or later. They pay the taxes up front - state pension contributions are post-tax, just like funds put into a private Roth IRA. You're asking state employees to be taxed twice - both when paying in and taking out. Why should they pay more taxes on retirement funds than (most) everyone else? And nearly every retiree - public or private - in New York state gets a basic tax exemption for the first $20,000 of pension income.
1
Understand that NYS and NYC employees pay taxes on their pension contributions when they are made during their years of working. So, in essence you are asking NYS and NYC civil servants to put up with double taxation. I believe that is still illegal, even here in NYS.
1
One does not believe it would corrupt the Legislative process in Albany further if the hourly minimum wage for our much vaunted State Legislators was also fixed at $15 an hour. Honest individuals seeking an honest day's work might very well transform the seat of Government into the paragon of virtue it should be . Those seeking to enrich themselves might very well be dissuaded from running for the position in the first place.
4
Beautiful thought ! Thanks !
4
Hello tax increase!
25
Hello, reduction of the number of people on welfare and Medicaid.
No, matt, because at $15 an hour the same careless breeders will still qualify for most public assistance.
It's having babies before they are viable productive citizens that makes these people poor, not wages or lack thereof.
It's having babies before they are viable productive citizens that makes these people poor, not wages or lack thereof.
2
This should have been done long time ago. A very simple one bed apartment in NJ costs now $1200 a month. If you make a minimum of $8/hour, it will take you almost the whole month just to pay rent....Sorry, but even in the country where i came from you can do much better!
27
The polar opposite of what's happening in Kansas.
Good move, Governor.
Good move, Governor.
8
Chris Cuomo is a true descendent of Amerigo Vespuchi.......BRAVO Chris.....
Congratulations to those who, three or six years hence, now will enjoy a minimum wage of $15 per hour and who work for NY State. Honestly. But let's not be too surprised as the implications to the state budget start to be felt that we soon find Albany and state offices and other facilities in other cities containing fewer lifeguards, office assistants and custodial staff, and more automation to pick up the slack.
Let's also not be too surprised a few years hence to find better-paid fast-food workers but fewer of them, and substantially more hardware and software in chain restaurants that take the place of human labor.
TANSTAAFL.
Let's also not be too surprised a few years hence to find better-paid fast-food workers but fewer of them, and substantially more hardware and software in chain restaurants that take the place of human labor.
TANSTAAFL.
13
Substitute the relatively low cost devices for high cost labor.
1
How many state workers make minimum wage? This is probably a non event.
31
according to the article, which you're commenting on, around 10,000 individuals will benefit from this.
1
Show the benefit of being in a union as most state workers are.
Lifeguards probably dont make $15 but they sure deserve it
Lifeguards probably dont make $15 but they sure deserve it
1
This is probably why he's doing it, because no one will be affected and the budget will remain the same.
3
I am OK with giving state employees 15 an hour. Burger flippers, not so much.
21
You don't know any state workers, do you?
3
I have seen state employees do a lot less than flip burgers
10
Here is a hint. Because of tax credits you are paying those burger flippers $15 an hour, not their employer. How do you like the idea of increased minimum wage now?
I would rather pay an extra ten cents for a burger than continue to give corporations millions in wage subsidies.
I would rather pay an extra ten cents for a burger than continue to give corporations millions in wage subsidies.
48
Gotta give Cuomo credit for trying although this brave attempt could backfire by feeding the myth that public employees are overpaid while legislatures and courts across the nation have committed "legal theft" of pensions from state workers, many of whom had retired only to find their 'contract' with the state broken.
Somehow this needs to extend to private workers too as public employees will be targets for republicans eager to bring public employees and unions to their knees.
Somehow this needs to extend to private workers too as public employees will be targets for republicans eager to bring public employees and unions to their knees.
3
Higher taxes higher cost of living. Keep pouring it on. It does matter. One more reason to leave. Population of NY in 1970 18.5 million Population in 2015 19.5 million. Most other states increased by over 50%. New Yorkers are voting with their feet and leaving in droves. I am always surprised when i meet someone over 65 in NY. Like my parents and all my friends parents they all left for a lower cost of living and now some of my friends are starting to leave. I almost never meet someone moving to LI from another part of the US. If it was not for immigrants from other countries NY's populations would decline dramatically.
The politicians are so out of touch. These policies do have an effect. I always think about these policies as i get on a plane to visit my parent.
The politicians are so out of touch. These policies do have an effect. I always think about these policies as i get on a plane to visit my parent.
27
When your low income workers get to Texas, we'll have jobs here waiting for them. And they won't stay low income workers, since with every job they get, they get more skills to move up the economic ladder. People in the bottom quintile of income generally understand this, which is why they leave places like New York. And it's why those who do are in the second or third quintile for income ten years later, making them no longer poor but middle class.
Many politicians also understand this, but they do what they do to pander for votes from the people who don't get it and therefore don't leave and are therefore still in their voting districts, demanding higher wages from jobs that are rapidly evaporating.
Look what the UAW demanded over the years, and look at the policies of the people who ran Detroit for half a century, and you have a microcosmic view of where New York State is headed.
But I'm in Texas, so it's not my problem. Hope you get it figured out, though.
Many politicians also understand this, but they do what they do to pander for votes from the people who don't get it and therefore don't leave and are therefore still in their voting districts, demanding higher wages from jobs that are rapidly evaporating.
Look what the UAW demanded over the years, and look at the policies of the people who ran Detroit for half a century, and you have a microcosmic view of where New York State is headed.
But I'm in Texas, so it's not my problem. Hope you get it figured out, though.
12
You do have a point. But the counter point is that older people are moving to places where they benifit from having spent their lives working in ny, and now will relax on the backs of oppressed people. It's like saying, instead of having a 401k, i'll retire from running a kmart and just buy a sweatshop in myanmar. Everything has a price and the cost of low taxes and business friendly states are that only land and business owners count as people. There really aren't many win-wins these days
"And they won't stay low income workers"
----------------------------
Eric: Where is the data showing that this occurs in your state of Texas?
----------------------------
Eric: Where is the data showing that this occurs in your state of Texas?
2
Our so called " leaders " are stark raving mad . Common sense says that the minimum wage should be tied to the rate of inflation as is [ supposedly ] the union and politicians wage increases . Obviously when you increase the minimum wage from $ 7.50 to $ 15.00 [ 100 % ] the owners / producers of businesses must increase the cost of their products dramatically . A Mc Donald hamburger that might cost $ 1.50 will now have to be increased to $1.95 / $ 2.25 or higher . Even though the unskilled laborer who has little to offer , his / her wage should increase with the inflation rate. On the other hand the greedy unions have demanded obscene wage increases even for unskilled workers such as in the auto industry ....$ 75.00 an hour [ including benefits ] for dumbed down unskilled labor . Is it any wonder that heavy industry [ high paying jobs ] have been off shored .
Arminius-Aurelius.com
Arminius-Aurelius.com
11
If the minimum wage had kept place with the improvements in worker productivity it would be $21.72
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage1-2012-03.pdf
As it is, it hasn't even kept pace with inflation since 1968. Adjusted for inflation it would be around $11.
So your argument is way off base. You need to do some economics and history reading.
http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/min-wage1-2012-03.pdf
As it is, it hasn't even kept pace with inflation since 1968. Adjusted for inflation it would be around $11.
So your argument is way off base. You need to do some economics and history reading.
43
Well, if we had tied the minimum wage to inflation in 1968 it would be over $11 nationally. If it had grown at the same rate as personal income generally (average incomes have risen faster than inflation happily), it would be over $21.
6
The ways cars are built these days, is that even unskilled labor? And how many factory jobs that pay anything are there these days. The whole point is that mcdonalds is only cheap because of exploitation. The cost increase means it becomes real to the people giving them money. One shouldn't be able to get a hamburger in a restaraunt for under $15. Because that is what it really costs. If you want "cheap beef" make it oneself
1
Min Wage will still be Min Wage tomorrow. No matter how much you increase wages, it will never enough. the bar only gets higher.
11
What will $15/hour mean in six years? Sounds good, but...
6
it's an improvement. gotta start somewhere
1
Now that is a step toward sanity. Next up is a $22 minimum wage in NYC, which is still barely enough to maintain a reasonable lifestyle. I assure you, a banker can spare 50 cents more on his Duane Reade water bottle so the employees aren't indentured servants.
27
And that same banker doesn't have to buy that bottle of water. Are will you force him or her to buy that water (taxes)? Change one thing like the minimum wage, and other things change to balance out the artificial wage.
6
For those who can't afford a reasonable NYC lifestyle on your income, I suggest .... moving.
Try getting out of Manhattan - you might find things look a little different out here in the "outer boroughs".
People aren't poor because they don't have enough money. They are poor because things cost too much. Prices change. If the minimum wage increases, then people will get relief in the short term - until sellers realize they can charge more. That is what capitalism demands - charge as much as you can.
I don't like the current economic/political systems, but I'm not saying change everything. I'm just saying there are better ways to deal with poverty. Why not legislate caps on housing prices? NYC housing prices are insane. Why not overhaul the welfare system, put more money into it and build better mechanisms to prevent people from abusing it?
If Cuomo cares so much about poor people not being able to eat well and have decent housing, why doesn't he use his power to give them good food and decent housing? Knowing NYC landlords, all this increase means is that housing prices in Jamaica and Bushwick will start to look like the rest of Brooklyn.
I don't like the current economic/political systems, but I'm not saying change everything. I'm just saying there are better ways to deal with poverty. Why not legislate caps on housing prices? NYC housing prices are insane. Why not overhaul the welfare system, put more money into it and build better mechanisms to prevent people from abusing it?
If Cuomo cares so much about poor people not being able to eat well and have decent housing, why doesn't he use his power to give them good food and decent housing? Knowing NYC landlords, all this increase means is that housing prices in Jamaica and Bushwick will start to look like the rest of Brooklyn.
3
Isn't Jamaica in Queens?
6
Well, yeah you are right. I thought it was in Brooklyn for some reason, but my point was about housing prices in low income neighborhoods not NYC geography.
Also how about welfare that doesn't drop dramaitcally as you clime out of the hole. 4 kids and no job, the state pays for everything. 4 kids, no spouse, 2 jobs and make $35k, you're on your own. To get off welfare, one is supposed to move directly from min. wage to $20/hr. Anything in between and you are screwed. That is why people stay on public assistance. Any attempt to better oneself makes you poorer than you ever were years before there is any pay off.
Let me translate this for the liberals. Cuomo intends to raise the minimum wage for all state employees which will result in the taxpayer shelling out yet more money to support soul-sucking inompetance.
35
What sort of ugly comment is this? Is this the American "exceptionalism" of which we're so prideful? Sorry, pitiful.
46
American Exceptionalism is rooted in the private sector, not government. All government can do is get in the way of innovation and progress -- unless that government is Of the People, By the People, and For the People, something which ours has long since abandoned for special interests.
8
Steve Crisp sounds as if will be snow plowing his own road and seeing to his own sewage disposal and drinking water. He does not need any government workers to maintain his bridges either or insure his milk and food is safe and not diseased
20
Before people predict economic catastrophe, remember that low wages come with their own cost.
50% of Walmart;s employees qualify for public assistance. Walmart trains their employees on how to successfully apply for this assistance. When Walmart employees, and McDonald's employees earn more, they will no longer qualify for public assistance. While we may all pay more at the checkout stand, we will pay less at tax time. And, full time work will have more dignity--which it should.
If full time legal work is not sufficient to put a roof over your head and food on the table, how do you think people are making ends meet? No, really ... do you think people just say, "oh well, I can't afford enough for a place to live, so I'll just sleep in this cardboard box, next to my wife and kids". Or, do you think they will scratch more out of underground and illegal activities ....drugs, stolen good, prostitution etc .....
We if want to participate in a culture that promotes the virtue of hard work, then we must ensure that hard work provides people with dignity--at a minimum, that would be a roof over the head and food on the table. Light and heat could be a bonus. At today's minimum wage, we are not even ensuring the first two.
50% of Walmart;s employees qualify for public assistance. Walmart trains their employees on how to successfully apply for this assistance. When Walmart employees, and McDonald's employees earn more, they will no longer qualify for public assistance. While we may all pay more at the checkout stand, we will pay less at tax time. And, full time work will have more dignity--which it should.
If full time legal work is not sufficient to put a roof over your head and food on the table, how do you think people are making ends meet? No, really ... do you think people just say, "oh well, I can't afford enough for a place to live, so I'll just sleep in this cardboard box, next to my wife and kids". Or, do you think they will scratch more out of underground and illegal activities ....drugs, stolen good, prostitution etc .....
We if want to participate in a culture that promotes the virtue of hard work, then we must ensure that hard work provides people with dignity--at a minimum, that would be a roof over the head and food on the table. Light and heat could be a bonus. At today's minimum wage, we are not even ensuring the first two.
125
Based on this then we shouldn't expect to see a tax hike to pay for this increased minimum wage for state workers. It should pay for itself as they get off public assistance.
1
Childfree low-wage workers do NOT qualify for assistance.
The only people who simultaneously are working for low wages and on public assistance are those who decided to go ahead and have kids even though they have not yet developed their own education, job skills, work history or general marketability. It is not McDonald's or Walmart's fault that these people made the conscious choice to breed above their means and no corporation should have to jack up wages beyond rational market levels just to make up for the poor personal choices of legions of American workers.
Again, no low-wage worker who sensibly has refrained from having children is taking anything in the form of WIC, SNAP, TANF, USDA school nutrition programs, $80 billion in taxpayer funded early childhood education (daycare) programs, Section 8, the EITC welfare, Medicaid or any other program, because those largely are available only to the childed. If you have a beef with people sucking dollars from fellow citizens, take it up with those who produce children they cannot rear without massive aid, not the companies that are defraying at least part of the taxpayer cost.
And btw, a "struggling single mom" on $15 an hour is still going to qualify for most of the above. And in my area gets free transportation, reduced-cost gas and electric utilities, and a lot of other help besides the listed programs.
The only people who simultaneously are working for low wages and on public assistance are those who decided to go ahead and have kids even though they have not yet developed their own education, job skills, work history or general marketability. It is not McDonald's or Walmart's fault that these people made the conscious choice to breed above their means and no corporation should have to jack up wages beyond rational market levels just to make up for the poor personal choices of legions of American workers.
Again, no low-wage worker who sensibly has refrained from having children is taking anything in the form of WIC, SNAP, TANF, USDA school nutrition programs, $80 billion in taxpayer funded early childhood education (daycare) programs, Section 8, the EITC welfare, Medicaid or any other program, because those largely are available only to the childed. If you have a beef with people sucking dollars from fellow citizens, take it up with those who produce children they cannot rear without massive aid, not the companies that are defraying at least part of the taxpayer cost.
And btw, a "struggling single mom" on $15 an hour is still going to qualify for most of the above. And in my area gets free transportation, reduced-cost gas and electric utilities, and a lot of other help besides the listed programs.
6
Do not forget - when a worker is not paid a living wage he still has to make enough money to live in a society that requires him to take home a living wage. Catch 22?
So how does he do it? The answers are hugely ugly and the NYT needs to do an in depth article on this subject.
(One answer: he works UNDER THE TABLE and all that entails, i.e. no taxes collected equaling destruction to society.) Game NYT?
So how does he do it? The answers are hugely ugly and the NYT needs to do an in depth article on this subject.
(One answer: he works UNDER THE TABLE and all that entails, i.e. no taxes collected equaling destruction to society.) Game NYT?
Good. I hope my entire state finds the spine to elect a real governor who will then follow suit.
16
Florida is a much lower cost state. $15 per hour as a minimum wage makes little sense there.
1
How will this really matter if NY has a virtually unlimited flow of illegal labor? Public employees may make a decent wage but private workers, who pay those salaries, will continue to have their salaries driven down by 'undocumented', non income tax paying workers. That's still a race to the bottom.
8
Without an annual cola (cost of living adjustment) the $15 minimum wage can not amount to much.
9
No mention of how the higher wages will be funded. Higher taxes, no doubt, which will only make NY less competitive in attracting businesses and accelerating the flight of businesses and citizens to lower cost states.
33
Who cares? Let them go to the service-oriented red states, mine being one of them.
Maybe then state legislatures like mine will raise taxes and contribute to the federal till exactly what it takes out, or slightly more, rather than constantly stealing from it while whining about paying too much in taxes.
Maybe then, states like New York - which gets a hearty but embarrassed thanks from me - can keep more of their own money.
Honestly, this whole notion of letting businesses hold everything hostage is so shopworn. No one is owed a single thing for being a business owner; if anything, business owners ought to be a lot more grateful for being provided a taxpayer-funded infrastructure by which to chase wealth, and the ability to take tax exemptions and loopholes the rest of us pay for but CAN'T take for ourselves.
The least those businesses can do is offset those costs to the rest of us by providing wages indexed to inflation.
Funny how the ''No free lunch!'' crowd is the very first to whine and howl when it finds itself at the receiving ends of its own convictions.
Maybe then state legislatures like mine will raise taxes and contribute to the federal till exactly what it takes out, or slightly more, rather than constantly stealing from it while whining about paying too much in taxes.
Maybe then, states like New York - which gets a hearty but embarrassed thanks from me - can keep more of their own money.
Honestly, this whole notion of letting businesses hold everything hostage is so shopworn. No one is owed a single thing for being a business owner; if anything, business owners ought to be a lot more grateful for being provided a taxpayer-funded infrastructure by which to chase wealth, and the ability to take tax exemptions and loopholes the rest of us pay for but CAN'T take for ourselves.
The least those businesses can do is offset those costs to the rest of us by providing wages indexed to inflation.
Funny how the ''No free lunch!'' crowd is the very first to whine and howl when it finds itself at the receiving ends of its own convictions.
71
Everywhere that minimum wages have increased, business has actually improved. When people finally get a living wage, they finally have the money to spend on all the things they had to defer in order to pay rent and eat.
The republican notion of tax cuts for businesses is nonsensical in the current financial climate. A company that saves $10M in taxes doesn't go and spend that money in the community. It doesn't even hire more workers. All that money goes to the executives and and the major shareholders. Workers and communities are paid as little as possible to maximize shareholder value.
Apple has $150B in cash just sitting around in its accounts. They paid $0 in taxes to the US government. If we simply closed the loopholes that companies like Apple use to pay no taxes (GE has a tax rate of -14%!) We would gain $900billion dollars a year in tax revenue, and the working man wouldn't pay a dime more. Only those who are too big to fail will cry that they are being robbed.
A 15 dollar minimum wage barely compensates for current inflation, and it is long overdue to be guaranteed to every American. Don't trot out this nonsense about benevolent corporations (who sold our manufacturing base to China) making tons of money (Off outsourcing American jobs) and just GIVING it to their employees (Who they just downsized).
Trickle down economics is the theory that if 2 people use a 2 story outhouse at the same time, one person will always think it's raining.
The republican notion of tax cuts for businesses is nonsensical in the current financial climate. A company that saves $10M in taxes doesn't go and spend that money in the community. It doesn't even hire more workers. All that money goes to the executives and and the major shareholders. Workers and communities are paid as little as possible to maximize shareholder value.
Apple has $150B in cash just sitting around in its accounts. They paid $0 in taxes to the US government. If we simply closed the loopholes that companies like Apple use to pay no taxes (GE has a tax rate of -14%!) We would gain $900billion dollars a year in tax revenue, and the working man wouldn't pay a dime more. Only those who are too big to fail will cry that they are being robbed.
A 15 dollar minimum wage barely compensates for current inflation, and it is long overdue to be guaranteed to every American. Don't trot out this nonsense about benevolent corporations (who sold our manufacturing base to China) making tons of money (Off outsourcing American jobs) and just GIVING it to their employees (Who they just downsized).
Trickle down economics is the theory that if 2 people use a 2 story outhouse at the same time, one person will always think it's raining.
15
BRAVO!
1
Go Bernie! Look at the effect his message has had on the conscience of the country. Where he becomes President or not, he has done more to positively change American attitudes towards workers, income inequality, race and policing issues than any other current leader.
4
You think this is a result of Bernie Sanders????? Are you high??? People have been petitioning for $15 hr minimum wage in New York long before the average sheople had even heard of Bernie Sanders. Way to give credit to a do nothing politician. To hell with the hard working people of New York who stood up for themselves and inflicted change. It will be short lived change once they realize that they will no longer qualify for their free daycare, medical and food stamps and that companies will simply pass these additional costs on to consumers, then when the price of everything goes up to pay for the cost of this minimum wage hike, and what used to cost $10.00 now costs $15.00 they will see that this increase in spending power was temporary and they are right back where they started. Then, enter the do nothing politician, ie Bernie Sanders, who will come to the podium and tell us how many families are living in poverty trying to raise their families on minimum wage, blah, blah , blah, and since they raised the minimum wage to include more people, the number will be higher than the last time they gave this speech. The only thing that will change is that this do nothing politician will keep himself in office for another term.
2
The business recruiters in the rest of the country want to thank the Governor for making their work so much easier.
Is it any wonder NY State has one of the highest out migration in the nation?
Is it any wonder NY State has one of the highest out migration in the nation?
19
Cuomo has the right approach here, along with cities like Seattle. Action at the city or state level makes a great deal of sense. Cuomo also understands the need to raise NY wages first, and let others follow.
What doesn't make sense is a national minimum wage at $15. The cost of living is much lower in other parts of the country, and $15 in a low cost area can be equivalent to $30+ in New York City.
What doesn't make sense is a national minimum wage at $15. The cost of living is much lower in other parts of the country, and $15 in a low cost area can be equivalent to $30+ in New York City.
28
Not a resident of New York, so not my battle to fight. I support a higher minimum wage, but where he is spending taxpayer money, I think this should go before the legislature for a vote and not be handled unilaterally.
12
Excellent. Predictably, Republicans will predict disaster and predictably everything will be OK. It's good for the workers and good for the economy.
69
Predictably, you will be wrong as you were wrong in sailing your fleet into a typhoon.
6
Do you have data for your claim, ryan?
A simple regression analysis would do; a time series, perhaps?
Otherwise, your protest is as useless as it is meaningless.
A simple regression analysis would do; a time series, perhaps?
Otherwise, your protest is as useless as it is meaningless.
In Kansas, the right wing trickle-down experiment by governor Sam Brownback proved it's a myth. No new jobs, but new deficit.
This is a great social experiment from the left that we should all be eager to see its outcome.
This is a great social experiment from the left that we should all be eager to see its outcome.
13
It will end badly for the workers. Fast food joints will automatize and other mom and pop stores will close. This is catastrophic for small businesses.
9
It has nothing to do with small businesses.
3
Totally agree w/you Ryan, and maybe the workers will be offered only a few hours of work at $15 creating a population of part time jobs with little if any benefits. How does Cuomo plan on subsidizing the difference? Some may not be able or willing to find another part time job to make up the difference of not having a full time job. But why would they want to do that as most of their money would be put towards medical insurance or day care? why not Obama care and food stamps? will not turn out well for so many small businesses and families.
1
Why do NYC workers get to $15/hr BEFORE workers in NY State but outside of NYC have to wait an additional 3 years?
These people that are working for and fighting for these increases deserve them NOW not in 3 more or 6 more years.
These people that are working for and fighting for these increases deserve them NOW not in 3 more or 6 more years.
7
Because it is waaaaay more expensive to live in the NYC metro area than say in Albany, Buffalo, Utica or Rochester.
4
Don't forget about the left-out Nassau, Suffolk and Westchester, though. They're in the NYC metro area, but not included in the advanced timetable. Long Island is VERY expensive, too.
McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's announce plans to automate 80% of jobs by 2017.
32
I couldn't find this via Google. Citations, please.
3
Please actually read the article. The raise is for state workers, not McDonald's, Burger King and Wendy's employees.
5
Should give lots of fast food workers down time to enjoy Central Park.
Governor Cuomo,
How about the professors and staff who work at CUNY? They will earn less than the minimum wages after six years without a contract.
How about the professors and staff who work at CUNY? They will earn less than the minimum wages after six years without a contract.
81
Excellent point, but you already know the answer.
2
Would you like a PhD or fries with that? Think positively NyG - at least CUNY professors may soon have some excellent options for supplemental income (Bareburger, Shake Shack, Dunkin Donuts just to name a few)...
2
Please spares us your hyperbole. Most said SUNY and CUNY employees are represented by CSEA or some other union. So blame your local along with the governor if it doesn't have the ability to negotiate and settle a reasonable contract in a reasonable period of time.