Oh yeah, these kids are adorable and it all sounds really nice for them & their families. I just think it is inconsiderate of the other tenants. Apartments are not suited for that many kids & there are usually guidelines regarding how many people per unit for a reason. I wouldn't want to be a tenant in any of these buildings.
8
To all the people carping about how inconsiderate these people are of the poor childless tenants suffering under the onslaught of the din of children playing:
Nowhere in this story is there a suggestion that other tenants have complained. So why the kiddie bashing? Playing in the hallway was standard OP when I was growing up in the '60's, and now that more couples are staying in the city once they have kids, apparently the tradition is being revived. For that matter, in our neighborhood, it was also common for the older people to congregate in the building lobby after dinner and play cards or listen to a game on the radio. Mothers often gathered on the roof to talk and socialize while they hung out the laundry. Guess what? They made noise, too. And no one complained. Well, actually, Mrs. Grossman complained, but that's how we knew she was alive. It might not be strictly permitted by the book, but if other tenants don't object, why the outrage at this informal use of common space? And why such animosity toward children? It sounds like some of these people were never kids themselves! Lighten up!
Nowhere in this story is there a suggestion that other tenants have complained. So why the kiddie bashing? Playing in the hallway was standard OP when I was growing up in the '60's, and now that more couples are staying in the city once they have kids, apparently the tradition is being revived. For that matter, in our neighborhood, it was also common for the older people to congregate in the building lobby after dinner and play cards or listen to a game on the radio. Mothers often gathered on the roof to talk and socialize while they hung out the laundry. Guess what? They made noise, too. And no one complained. Well, actually, Mrs. Grossman complained, but that's how we knew she was alive. It might not be strictly permitted by the book, but if other tenants don't object, why the outrage at this informal use of common space? And why such animosity toward children? It sounds like some of these people were never kids themselves! Lighten up!
13
The oh so cute photo of the man and his child anticipating a loud balloon pop in the hallway - did he think at all about the neighbor who is hard at work on the other side of the wall? Or the one who sleeps during the day because she work at night? Or the one who just put her colicky baby down for a nap? Or any other of countless scenarios where a loud pop isn't cute or fun or funny?
The I-me-my self-centeredness of this generation of parents is astonishing. I shudder to think about when their children are grown.
The I-me-my self-centeredness of this generation of parents is astonishing. I shudder to think about when their children are grown.
17
I grew up on the north shore of Long Island in the 40's and 50's, with relatives in the city. Every summer they would come out for weekends to sit in the yard, wander around the tree-lined streets, go swimming in one of the several beautiful beaches within walking distance, and enjoy the noise free, dirt free, open environment. As dumb as I was, I always wondered: "Don't they see what life is like here? Do they really want to go back to that drab apartment building? Could my cousins really identify with a school named: P.S. 9000000? God, did I feel sorry for them. I never liked NYC, no matter how many times I visited museums, libraries, zoos, etc. Still don't. Especially in summer, when you get home, take off the white shirt, and see the dirty grime around the color.
7
What about the introverts in the family who want nothing more than to be alone with their thoughts? I shared a room with my sister and finally got my own room when I was in my mid-teens. It was heaven to be alone to do as I please and not have to talk with anyone! I don't see how these same relationships can't be developed in a suburb, we did so in ours.
6
Of course the children have fun and would miss each other if they moved. But I think this is more about the parents maintaining their sanity-- having playmates across the hall is a blessing to those of us raising children in apartments. Parents may couch it in terms of what's best for their kids (and of course the benefits to the children are likely real) but I suspect it's really about what's best for Mom and Dad as they struggle to get though a cold winter day with two small kids!
4
This happens in other parts of the world, and it was also common decades ago. My father grew up in Cairo Egypt and used to play in the hallways with another little boy. My dad is Jewish, his friend is Muslim. 65 years later they are still best friends, although my dad is now in Switzerland while his friend is still in Cairo. And his friend's mother? My dad called her Tante Aida. Because he loved her like an aunt.
9
Oh my god no: In my previous NYC building parents would scoot their young children into the long hallway unsupervised making it into a playground. Screams that normal kids make, but for hours directly in front of your apt door. There are literally 4 playgrounds within the block but that meant parents would have leave their apt. So hallway = playground. I moved: yea it was that bad.
Part of the issue is the NY'ers living in small apts really shouldnt be having more than one child for all sorts of obvious practical reasons -- At some point the their apt starts to look like boot camp. And what these folks really should be doing after baby number 2 is happily move to NJ (which is what many many do).
Part of the issue is the NY'ers living in small apts really shouldnt be having more than one child for all sorts of obvious practical reasons -- At some point the their apt starts to look like boot camp. And what these folks really should be doing after baby number 2 is happily move to NJ (which is what many many do).
9
Community is very important, especially in a place as isolated as NYC. One of the best things about our current home is our wonderful neighbors, whose kids are the same age as ours, and who have become very close friends to us. However... I must say, this commitment to "community" needs to go both ways. In this case here, the families are taking, taking, taking, and not giving anything back to the larger community of the entire building. They're not giving the rest of the residents the respect and space that they are equally entitled to. I'm not childless, but I too would hate to live in a building where children run up and down the hallways and have turned the shared spaces into playgrounds. Apartment buildings require extra courtesy to inhabit peacefully, because people are packed so tightly and can easily step on each other's toes. You have to be respectful of your neighbors, and not assume the entire place is yours. That's why I hate apartment buildings. I grew up in one and will never live in one again, as long as I can afford it. If you can't respect your fellow neighbors and keep to yourself, maybe this isn't the best living arrangement for you. Anything otherwise is just selfish. It's driving people like me away from cities and apartment buildings, and driving those who can't run away from you crazy.
21
Hmmm, I'm definitely not for shipping large families out to sprawling suburbs, but something about this article bothers me. I think it's the families justifying what are actually the preferences of the adults as choices they're making for their kids. Most kids can make friends and forge deep connections wherever they go. They'll love the city, the country or the suburbs as long as there is structure and stability in their lives and classmates and neighbors to pal around with. The parents want to live the FOMO-fueled, Brooklyn-crazed dream of "interesting" neighbors, artisanal coffee klatches and organic supermarkets. I get the resistance to ship out to the suburbs, especially among those of us who were raised there, but don't it hide behind your kids.
30
"They hang out in the 12x15' landing outside the elevator. They ride their scooters down the hallway and kick around a ball."
Sounds like utter hell for anyone else living on or below that floor. What about consideration for your other neighbors?
Sounds like utter hell for anyone else living on or below that floor. What about consideration for your other neighbors?
31
Also hell if you're trying to get your child to eat dinner or do homework. When they hear their friends playing right outside their door, what do you think they're going to want to do.
6
Always love New York...........to visit.
Here comes another of my claustrophobia attacks. Got the last one after that piece on closet-sized 2nd bedrooms.
Here comes another of my claustrophobia attacks. Got the last one after that piece on closet-sized 2nd bedrooms.
6
I spent much of my childhood in a post-war garden apartment complex that was very much like this situation sounds. Our apartment was tiny, but we faced a "court" of other apartments, each with children around the age of myself and my brother. We made our own playdates as did our parents who played cards, barbecued with just one person watching "the kids".
We moved later to a "home", a private house that felt much more lonely.
We moved later to a "home", a private house that felt much more lonely.
5
Squeezing together into a 500 sq ft apt works when the children are younger than 10. When children hit the pre-teen and teen years, developmentally they need space away from their parents and siblings. They still might need to share a bedroom with a sibling or two, but 2 adults with 3 teens in a 500 sq ft apt is never going to work.
22
Clearly you aren't a New Yorker? I know several friends who grew up in circumstances like you describe.... and are better off then kids who grew up in McMansions with their own de-facto "wings" of the house and never had to spend anytime with their families. Older kids in NYC (gasp) Go OUTSIDE! Mind you, I wouldn't want to do it these days because you'd still be paying an arm and a leg for a 500 sq ft place but culturally, it's not the nightmare you make it out to be. Kids grow up. And keep growing. I'd rather that than a mini-stepford house in the ex-urbs with no sidewalks anywhere!
3
Why is this OK and Airbnb not?
4
Not sure how you can compare long-time residents having another child with giving a stranger keys to the front door.
5
When i read this, my first thought was that these families were staying not because of the kids' relationships but instead the rent on a larger apartment is something they cannot afford. I had many friends who moved in the early sixties to Long Island. Their parents wanted to get their kids out of the city because that was an affordable opportunity. I got over it and found lots of other friends, some for a lifetime. Again the NYT fails to point out the obvious.
7
Here's what the headline should have been: "As Rents Breach the Stratosphere, Middle Class Families Feel the Squeeze."
With rising rents and stagnant wages, the move toward multigenerational households is already well under way nationwide.
With rising rents and stagnant wages, the move toward multigenerational households is already well under way nationwide.
11
I wonder how many times a week Mr. Goepfert really smiles like that with his daughter. Something tells me (experience) that is probably not the dominant emotion here. "Daddy, can we go play with the balloon on the hard floor in the hallway?" That gets old in a hurry...
7
Thank God the Mitchell-Lama program came along just in time for my family and many others, rescuing us from conditions like this and enabling us to live in spacious apartments set in beautiful grounds, and that one-earner families could afford.
And then when these buildings were privatized, original tenants or their heirs were able to make a killing. Making these apts. unaffordable to the next generation of families struggling in this economy. I could no longer afford to live in NY after selling my mother*s and my own coop apts.
Thank God for that, though--it got me out of the insanity of the city into what is consistently rated one of the best small towns in the US. I have river and mountain views and there are municipal playgrounds, ball fields and parks all in safe walking distance. The life depicted in this story reads like a Dickensian horror to me now...
And then when these buildings were privatized, original tenants or their heirs were able to make a killing. Making these apts. unaffordable to the next generation of families struggling in this economy. I could no longer afford to live in NY after selling my mother*s and my own coop apts.
Thank God for that, though--it got me out of the insanity of the city into what is consistently rated one of the best small towns in the US. I have river and mountain views and there are municipal playgrounds, ball fields and parks all in safe walking distance. The life depicted in this story reads like a Dickensian horror to me now...
8
I feel less insane staying in our 985 square feet with two kids after getting a load of this. (And our building has a walled communal garden, a children's playroom, and a large general common room, so no need for hall playing if you'd rather not go to one of the many nearby parks.)
8
I understand that to a "typical" American, as the commenters make plainly clear, this all seems appalling.
I grew up in central Pennsylvania, on a farm with 100 acres, a pool, fresh air, and a beautiful house my father designed and built.
It was idyllic and lovely. And hella lonely. Our family was far away. My best friend was three miles away. I had two younger sisters and they enjoyed it well enough.
My sister has two children: a three year old girl and a six month old boy. She also thought we were raised too far apart from other people, so she stayed in PA and built a multi-generational pod where my niece and nephew are learning the value of community. I love the way she is raising them.
I craved difference, change, noise, adventure. So I moved to NYC. I'm 39 and thinking deeply about staring a family and just today I was lamenting: how am I going to get the communal, multigenerational intimacy in NYC that my sister has built in PA in NYC? Will I have to move? How can I do it?
And then, this article appears. I think it's high time we went back to having a village raise our children. The enforced isolation of humanity is what is not natural.
I grew up in central Pennsylvania, on a farm with 100 acres, a pool, fresh air, and a beautiful house my father designed and built.
It was idyllic and lovely. And hella lonely. Our family was far away. My best friend was three miles away. I had two younger sisters and they enjoyed it well enough.
My sister has two children: a three year old girl and a six month old boy. She also thought we were raised too far apart from other people, so she stayed in PA and built a multi-generational pod where my niece and nephew are learning the value of community. I love the way she is raising them.
I craved difference, change, noise, adventure. So I moved to NYC. I'm 39 and thinking deeply about staring a family and just today I was lamenting: how am I going to get the communal, multigenerational intimacy in NYC that my sister has built in PA in NYC? Will I have to move? How can I do it?
And then, this article appears. I think it's high time we went back to having a village raise our children. The enforced isolation of humanity is what is not natural.
16
Please let me know where you'll be moving to, and I'll make sure I'll steer clear of your way. I don't fancy living in a college dorm again, only this time with kids running around at all hours.
26
A village is fine but please don't impose your own personal desires upon those who don't wish to participate or be subject to the chaos. Many commentators either don't realize or don't care that Common Space is common and subject to Rules and Regulations which from all that I have ever seen would ban the use of hallways as described in this article . It really is about boundaries and respect. There is a difference between inside and outside voices and movement.
16
Let us know if you feel the same way when you actually have kids and choose to shoe horn them into 500 sq. ft. Yes, it's great to have a support system, whether it's family, friends or a combo of both. But playing in the hallway? What about the other tenants? You have to be very lucky to get like minded people in the same building, never mind the same floor. I agree with a previous comment regarding the youthful ages of the children in the article. I lived in a 970 sq. ft. house with my son and daughter. As my son grew up, and bigger, it was one more big body in a small place. Now I have 3 regular sized adults. But I also did an addition/renovation bringing me to 1400 sq ft. The common areas are still crowded with 3 adults. I think the adults in the article are more in love with the communal living than their kids might be. Children can adapt pretty well to any situation, as they haven't experienced many themselves. As far as the adults in the story, the woman in the first picture sure doesn't look happy to me. And 500 sq ft for $2,100 a month? If you go to a suburb, you can probably find a lot more space for at least the same $, if not a bit more. Using your children to justify your own decisions.....is that really news worthy?
1
We had a great community on the Upper West...Hippo Park was our back yard, a very strong group of friends and other parents. What happened? Baby #2. Montclair, NJ, just as great of a community except that all the kids are out on the street and in the back yards instead of in the hallways. There's alot to be said for having outdoor space to let the kids run free. I love NY and always will, but am glad we went to a place where there was space to breathe while my children were young enough to find the same sense of community.
12
What a shame that while you have families living like this you have greedy elderly tenants holding onto 3 bedroom rent control apartments, paying less in rent then for monthly parking spaces and living by themselves. Shame on NYC for allowing rent regulations to create a few winners and many losers in the quest for housing. Eliminate rent regulations and let the market decide who gets to live in certain areas and who needs to hightail it out of the city if they can't afford it.
8
"John Smith"
You need to put this into context, "John Smith," before ye judge: " . . . you have greedy elderly tenants holding onto 3 bedroom rent control apartments, paying less in rent then for monthly parking spaces and living by themselves."
The question is why, but "John Smith," you answered it: " . . .paying less in rent then for monthly parking spaces and living by themselves." So, what would you do under the circumstances? Evict them so you could have their place? (Same price, of course)
You need to put this into context, "John Smith," before ye judge: " . . . you have greedy elderly tenants holding onto 3 bedroom rent control apartments, paying less in rent then for monthly parking spaces and living by themselves."
The question is why, but "John Smith," you answered it: " . . .paying less in rent then for monthly parking spaces and living by themselves." So, what would you do under the circumstances? Evict them so you could have their place? (Same price, of course)
13
Eldery! They deserve to stay in their homes and die in their homes. They should not be outpriced from their homes.
17
John Smith: People who cannot and could never afford to own a home of any sort are still entitled--morally and ethically, if not perhaps in law--to remain in the homes they established over a lifetime.
I had to pack up my mom*s apt. after she died, and then pack up my own, and move twice within two years. It is a monstrous task. I*m of mature years at this point, and I did all that packing--and struggling with what to keep and what to toss, and what had to be tossed though I wanted to keep it, etc.--mostly on my own. The thought of doing that at an age a few decades advanced from now is heart-deadening.
Old people should not need to be uprooted from neighborhoods because successive city governments have sold their souls to a variety of devils and made decent living impossible for the majority.
And they may need those extra rooms so that caregivers, if eventually necessary, can have some dignity and privacy too, and so that the grandchildren can visit, and so that all those books and memorabilia can be in the *library* or *den*--the way civilized people are able to live.
I had to pack up my mom*s apt. after she died, and then pack up my own, and move twice within two years. It is a monstrous task. I*m of mature years at this point, and I did all that packing--and struggling with what to keep and what to toss, and what had to be tossed though I wanted to keep it, etc.--mostly on my own. The thought of doing that at an age a few decades advanced from now is heart-deadening.
Old people should not need to be uprooted from neighborhoods because successive city governments have sold their souls to a variety of devils and made decent living impossible for the majority.
And they may need those extra rooms so that caregivers, if eventually necessary, can have some dignity and privacy too, and so that the grandchildren can visit, and so that all those books and memorabilia can be in the *library* or *den*--the way civilized people are able to live.
5
It's certainly a nice thing to have friendships forged from childhood. The kind of support structure that helps watching out for the kids while they bond, is a very precious thing. I grew up in similar settings, and yes, it was a fun childhood.
That said, one has to wonder how long a family of five can stretch the stay in a 500-sq.ft. apartment. Yes, the kids are still young now, and they can make do for maybe another 3-5 more years. If you have all girls or all boys, maybe you can squeeze them all in the same bunk bed for a couple more years longer. But that won't do if you have boys and girls, and they're growing fast into their teens. And where do they put all the clothings and winter gear, never mind toys, in such cramped space?
That said, one has to wonder how long a family of five can stretch the stay in a 500-sq.ft. apartment. Yes, the kids are still young now, and they can make do for maybe another 3-5 more years. If you have all girls or all boys, maybe you can squeeze them all in the same bunk bed for a couple more years longer. But that won't do if you have boys and girls, and they're growing fast into their teens. And where do they put all the clothings and winter gear, never mind toys, in such cramped space?
8
Eh, there is nothing new about this. I grew up in the hallways of my building. It wasn't considered newsworthy then, probably because raising kids was just life and people did what they had to do. Presumably it was annoying for other residents, but I don't remember. People living in the city should expect some noise, obviously. This is only a story because it features privileged white people. Kids in the projects play in the halls, too. Winters are cold here!
25
Val in Brooklyn, NY to Mary in NY
Well said.
Submitted 10-48-15@2:48 a.m. EST
Well said.
Submitted 10-48-15@2:48 a.m. EST
1
Share a room with my kids? Ugh, I didn't even want THEM to share a room!
My husband grew up crowded into a room with his brothers, and thought that our daughters could do the same. I didn't, and I think that as they have grown into teens, he has realized that they need their separate spaces and that WE need them in separate spaces to preserve our own sanity! The only time we all share a room is when we travel.
My husband grew up crowded into a room with his brothers, and thought that our daughters could do the same. I didn't, and I think that as they have grown into teens, he has realized that they need their separate spaces and that WE need them in separate spaces to preserve our own sanity! The only time we all share a room is when we travel.
4
Irony in real estate! In the same issue of the NYT we have families staying put in tiny apartments so as not to separate children and three friends buying three apartments in the same building in Soho.
3
It sure is a sign of intelligent life. Connection to each other is the only thing, other than action on climate change, which will keep the human race intact. Climbing upward means over and out—at this chronic, feeble stage of social-climbing careerism.
"They ride their scooters down the hallway and kick around a ball."
Bet some of the other neighbors just love all the noise. If someone has children, lives in Manhattan and thinks $600 is a significant amount of money they have no business having children and living in NY.
Bet some of the other neighbors just love all the noise. If someone has children, lives in Manhattan and thinks $600 is a significant amount of money they have no business having children and living in NY.
28
Bah, humbug to you, too! Cheeez.
2
Whoa, the animosity in the comments seems downright bizarre. The sense of community sounds good for all, in my view. So are we all supposed to lock ourselves behind our doors and not interact? Buy way too much space in suburbia so we have a splendid sense of isolation from others as we use up more resources than necessary? Perhaps make sure our kids' rooms are far from our own and equipped with enough electronics they never have to come out and interact with parents? I have and will continue to sing the praises of small spaces. It's tough at times, but the proximity can build strong families and great communities. I hope the subjects of this article ignore the naysayers and hang in.
11
Just a word from a Brownstone absentee landlord on this subject. Yikes...I'm going to install cameras in halls. Wait until the owner gets a look at this.
BTW...Why don't these "friends" get together and buy something and live as a commune. Incredible....
BTW...Why don't these "friends" get together and buy something and live as a commune. Incredible....
23
Don't forget that every village demands conformity with its norms, and God help you if you decide to rebel.
Little Precious not allowed to watch TV in his house? Sorry, but we're in the middle of an Animaniacs marathon and though he's always welcome, I'm not going to turn it off when he comes through the door, to suit your own holy scripture of parenting.
I wouldn't mind fixing him a cheese sandwich when the rest of us are having bologna, if you're kosher or a vegetarian.
The relentless pressure of these "open-minded generous people" to ensure total group compliance gives me the willies.
Little Precious not allowed to watch TV in his house? Sorry, but we're in the middle of an Animaniacs marathon and though he's always welcome, I'm not going to turn it off when he comes through the door, to suit your own holy scripture of parenting.
I wouldn't mind fixing him a cheese sandwich when the rest of us are having bologna, if you're kosher or a vegetarian.
The relentless pressure of these "open-minded generous people" to ensure total group compliance gives me the willies.
19
I can't get passed the 5 people sleeping in bunk beds in a 1 bedroom apartment. Does this violate City housing regulations?
I understand that parents must make all kinds of decisions -- hard ones and easy ones, big ones and little ones -- about what is in the best interest of their children and their family. But having two growing children of the opposite sex sleep in a bunk bed above their parents and a baby (when there are other options!) is not reasonable. There are wonderful communities of children and adults all over the country and all over the world. People have children; children play and make friends; families become close; close families celebrate life events. This is how the world works! You can observe this everywhere from Africa, to the Middle East, to the dreaded suburbs of New Jersey. There is nothing special or unique about your tenement in Brooklyn.
Before anyone accuses me of being too old or insufficiently urban to understand, I am 28 and grew-up in a warm community in the Bronx. When my family of 5 outgrew our 3 bedroom home, we moved into larger home where I finally got my own bedroom. I kept the old friends and made some new ones. We all went off to college and found Facebook. Life goes on.
I understand that parents must make all kinds of decisions -- hard ones and easy ones, big ones and little ones -- about what is in the best interest of their children and their family. But having two growing children of the opposite sex sleep in a bunk bed above their parents and a baby (when there are other options!) is not reasonable. There are wonderful communities of children and adults all over the country and all over the world. People have children; children play and make friends; families become close; close families celebrate life events. This is how the world works! You can observe this everywhere from Africa, to the Middle East, to the dreaded suburbs of New Jersey. There is nothing special or unique about your tenement in Brooklyn.
Before anyone accuses me of being too old or insufficiently urban to understand, I am 28 and grew-up in a warm community in the Bronx. When my family of 5 outgrew our 3 bedroom home, we moved into larger home where I finally got my own bedroom. I kept the old friends and made some new ones. We all went off to college and found Facebook. Life goes on.
36
I don't understand what bugging most of the readers here : Sharing ? Getting too close to another human beings, Literally ? Close knit groups/communes ? Minimising necessities, or just another worldview. What is there to be so annoyed or even afraid therereof !
Those who are lamenting, must be getting poorer in their ever growing abundances.
Those who are lamenting, must be getting poorer in their ever growing abundances.
5
BNYgirl.
yes I was around in the 1950's and yes I lived in the garden apartment (it was called the basement apartment back then) of a brownstone in Cobble Hill. We were 3 children who shared two bedrooms with 2 parents who slept on a pull out bed in the living room.
First my mother would have punished us for playing in the halls. If we fell down the stairs she would have punished us by not allowing us to ever put ourselves in harms way like that again. This makeshift, all too convenient playground, would not have happened back then and should not be happening now. As most of the comments show this is not something most people approve. Let me ask you this, why are you so defensive of this...got kids in a closet???
yes I was around in the 1950's and yes I lived in the garden apartment (it was called the basement apartment back then) of a brownstone in Cobble Hill. We were 3 children who shared two bedrooms with 2 parents who slept on a pull out bed in the living room.
First my mother would have punished us for playing in the halls. If we fell down the stairs she would have punished us by not allowing us to ever put ourselves in harms way like that again. This makeshift, all too convenient playground, would not have happened back then and should not be happening now. As most of the comments show this is not something most people approve. Let me ask you this, why are you so defensive of this...got kids in a closet???
8
Let's call this what it is.They're cheapskates! They're cramming their families into tiny apartments because it's cheaper, and they've gotten used to the other moms hosting meals and arts & crafts and dress-up. And they like letting their kids run wild in the hallway instead of taking them to a proper play date. Your kid will become "inseparable" with any other kid that's next door or down the hall. That's a lame excuse.
27
I keep picturing the reaction the man with the queen-sized bunk beds is going to get at work tomorrow!
22
It's not an arrangement that I would like, but I don't judge those who do this. First of all, "cheapskates?" These people are paying $600 MORE each month for this tiny space. As for "proper play dates," that's a relatively recent concept, and makes it the parents' responsibility to choose friends and play times. Kids forming their own spontaneous play groups is far better. The ONLY exception I can think of is when the friend lives far away and transportation is needed. Otherwise, nah.
4
From: Building Management
Due to the overwhelming response by parents demanding the "community" that the hallways of the building provides for their precious children, the Building Rules have been amended as follows:
Children are allowed and encourages to play in the hallway 24 hours a day and seven days a week with no restrictions as to noise and damage.
In an effort to be fair to other residents of the building the following Hallways Activities are now part of the building "community"
7AM - 9AM: Off Leash Dog Run.
Residents with dogs are encouraged to open their doors and let their dogs run free in the hallways community.
12Noon: Geriatric Water Aerobics
The hallways will be filled with water for our older residents to come out and join the hallway community for water aerobics
3PM: Hallway Hockey Practice
Goals shall be placed at opposite ends of the halls for our more athletic residents to join the hallway community for hockey practice
6PM-8PM The hallways will once again become an off leash dog run so our hard working residents with dogs can join in the hallway community
10PM: The 420 Lounge
It is after 10PM so bring your plants medicinal and otherwise and join our hallway community in a relaxing evening
11PM Disco
Get out that disco ball as our live bands show up and dancing and partying goes on until 5AM in our hallway community
5AM FoodCarts
For our late night revelers & early risers
Enjoy our Hallway Community!
Due to the overwhelming response by parents demanding the "community" that the hallways of the building provides for their precious children, the Building Rules have been amended as follows:
Children are allowed and encourages to play in the hallway 24 hours a day and seven days a week with no restrictions as to noise and damage.
In an effort to be fair to other residents of the building the following Hallways Activities are now part of the building "community"
7AM - 9AM: Off Leash Dog Run.
Residents with dogs are encouraged to open their doors and let their dogs run free in the hallways community.
12Noon: Geriatric Water Aerobics
The hallways will be filled with water for our older residents to come out and join the hallway community for water aerobics
3PM: Hallway Hockey Practice
Goals shall be placed at opposite ends of the halls for our more athletic residents to join the hallway community for hockey practice
6PM-8PM The hallways will once again become an off leash dog run so our hard working residents with dogs can join in the hallway community
10PM: The 420 Lounge
It is after 10PM so bring your plants medicinal and otherwise and join our hallway community in a relaxing evening
11PM Disco
Get out that disco ball as our live bands show up and dancing and partying goes on until 5AM in our hallway community
5AM FoodCarts
For our late night revelers & early risers
Enjoy our Hallway Community!
56
Thanks for a great laugh!
The problem is that the parents are as immature as their children.
Any of us who are now of mature years and grew up in NYC are familiar with the roving horde of kids swarming like locusts all over the place. However, we were all--or almost all--of us taught to be respectful of the neighbors, even the elderly, crotchety ones--that we couldn't leave bikes where others needed to walk; that we couldn't make too much noise.
I grew up in a coop building, and yes--in the winters, we often played in the hallways. Doors may have been unlocked but they were closed; it was understood we couldn't leave anything where someone might trip; we didn't block access to the elevators and stairs.
People without children do absolutely have the right to have THEIR lifestyles respected too. There is no hatred of children being expressed here. There IS a revulsion towards anyone who thinks that, you know, they are more equal than others because they are parenting at the moment....
Any of us who are now of mature years and grew up in NYC are familiar with the roving horde of kids swarming like locusts all over the place. However, we were all--or almost all--of us taught to be respectful of the neighbors, even the elderly, crotchety ones--that we couldn't leave bikes where others needed to walk; that we couldn't make too much noise.
I grew up in a coop building, and yes--in the winters, we often played in the hallways. Doors may have been unlocked but they were closed; it was understood we couldn't leave anything where someone might trip; we didn't block access to the elevators and stairs.
People without children do absolutely have the right to have THEIR lifestyles respected too. There is no hatred of children being expressed here. There IS a revulsion towards anyone who thinks that, you know, they are more equal than others because they are parenting at the moment....
43
The photo of children in the NYC apartment hallway makes me cringe. First it goes against building guidelines. Secondly, it displays sweet, young children that are not being taught the importance of respecting that other people's lives may be different and some people require peace, quiet, and privacy.
63
Feel bad for the kids. I mean really, sharing a bed with a sibling? It does remind me of tenement living. Are these people so socially backward that they are afraid they can't make friends, or have close relationships if they move to more suitable quarters? No matter what, you can't put a positive spin on this foolishness.
40
td:
"I mean really, sharing a bed with a sibling?"
****
It was done all the time. They survived.
"I mean really, sharing a bed with a sibling?"
****
It was done all the time. They survived.
2
There was a time when nine year olds worked in factories. It was done all the time. They survived. However, we seem to have moved beyond that sort of thinking in the year 2015.
9
Yes, and people used to have fleas and not bathe. They survived too. Certainly that doesn't make it good.
1
I'm shaking my head over this. I get small apartments -- I grew up in one. I'm an only child, growing up in a NYC 2 bedroom apt -- and the "other" bedroom, mine, was a sprawling 7 1/2' by 11' with a closet, two full windows (double exposure, both overlooking the ocean); a galley kitchen, and what one best describes as a "dinette."
Many of us used the apartment hallway as an extended playground -- we were lucky to have (childless) neighbors who understood this phenomenon; and for those of us who had siblings, sometime after child #2 was born, if it were one of the opposing sex, the family would move to a larger apartment or buy a house.
Why does this couple need a third child to cram into this space? Either move, or stop at two kids.
Many of us used the apartment hallway as an extended playground -- we were lucky to have (childless) neighbors who understood this phenomenon; and for those of us who had siblings, sometime after child #2 was born, if it were one of the opposing sex, the family would move to a larger apartment or buy a house.
Why does this couple need a third child to cram into this space? Either move, or stop at two kids.
44
as an urban chicagoan, i love the idea of these situations. how often i've lamented to friends with children that it'd be great if other families lived in our building, too. unfortunately, i live in a "kid-semi-unfriendly" building where half the residents do not find my children, age 5 and 2, as precious as i do. so even if there was another family or two, there would be no way to allow them to play in the halls.
however, i think the key focus of this article is not the disregard for the neighbors, but rather that the parents have found companionship and community with other parents, last minute babysitting, and an extended "family" with their neighbors INSIDE their apartments.
however, i think the key focus of this article is not the disregard for the neighbors, but rather that the parents have found companionship and community with other parents, last minute babysitting, and an extended "family" with their neighbors INSIDE their apartments.
9
I didn't see any mention of teenagers, especially 15+. It's all fun and games until someone reaches that age!
24
Is this a joke?
The parent's friendships will blow up - - someone will discipline someone else's kid too far. There are no boundaries, which is a disaster for children. Lots of room for affairs there too!
The parent's friendships will blow up - - someone will discipline someone else's kid too far. There are no boundaries, which is a disaster for children. Lots of room for affairs there too!
25
People like this make me miss the muggers.
40
I grew up in a once grand (now grand again) building on Madison Ave in the 90’s back in the 1960’s 70’s and 80’s. We had four bedrooms and two bathrooms, the old maids room, one of the bedrooms, had its own bathroom behind the kitchen. 10 kids plus mom and dad. Seven boys, three girls. 1,500sq.ft. By my older sisters count there were 120 kids in that building. Stay at home moms. Everyone’s parents were immigrants the building was all white. The only real divide in the building was half the kids went to Catholic school half went to Public school.
There were hundreds of unwritten, strictly enforced, rules. Like, boys over age six had to use the stairs not the elevator – “it’s good for you” was all the explanation we got, everyone complied. The “No Ball Playing” sign in the courtyard hung over us like the 11th commandment. You had to obey what any mom told you to do on what felt like pain of death. The paramount rule was quiet, no running and no playing in the hallways, stairs and lobby. That rule was explained; pointing to nowhere my mother would say they don’t want to listen to you. Nice people don’t bother their neighbors. We learned our behavior effected others, we were not the center of the universe but part of a community.
I’m in my mid-fifties now and still can’t bring myself to speak in the hallway above a whisper and I am uncomfortable doing it. As to the elevator, I do now ride up but still walk down, it’s good for me.
There were hundreds of unwritten, strictly enforced, rules. Like, boys over age six had to use the stairs not the elevator – “it’s good for you” was all the explanation we got, everyone complied. The “No Ball Playing” sign in the courtyard hung over us like the 11th commandment. You had to obey what any mom told you to do on what felt like pain of death. The paramount rule was quiet, no running and no playing in the hallways, stairs and lobby. That rule was explained; pointing to nowhere my mother would say they don’t want to listen to you. Nice people don’t bother their neighbors. We learned our behavior effected others, we were not the center of the universe but part of a community.
I’m in my mid-fifties now and still can’t bring myself to speak in the hallway above a whisper and I am uncomfortable doing it. As to the elevator, I do now ride up but still walk down, it’s good for me.
68
That is exactly how i remember the same period in NYC life. How could so many diverse European ethnic groups end up with many of the same attitudes and unwritten rules governing behavior?
I cant get over the entitlement of these people with the commandeering of public space. If they were charged a use fee there would be a mass exit. The peace and quiet has a tangible value which should either respected or paid for.
This same concept is evident with Airbnb reversion of Building Rules to suit the economic conditions of some occupants and their rationalizations on intended use of premises
I cant get over the entitlement of these people with the commandeering of public space. If they were charged a use fee there would be a mass exit. The peace and quiet has a tangible value which should either respected or paid for.
This same concept is evident with Airbnb reversion of Building Rules to suit the economic conditions of some occupants and their rationalizations on intended use of premises
3
The entitlement generation at its finest - frightening to think what their children will be like as teens and adults.
49
Romanticizing a 500 square foot space for a family of five...How can a family operate in such a tiny space? And pay so much for the privilege? Will the kids be in Junior high and High school, sleeping in their parents' bedroom?
32
This this is a classic case of being too attached to your environment. Kids, and healthy adults build relationships wherever they go. We lived in similar circumstances In Manhattan with 3 kids and now live in monclair where kids roam around in happy herds and eat at each other's houses. Kids have many changes to go through as they develop. Teaching them to build new friendships while you keep the old, goes a long way.
34
I grew up in Parkchester in the Bronx in the 1950's and 1960's. It was a community of 13,000 families with green spaces and loads of kids. It was ethnically diverse and safe and fun. The apartments were 650 square feet for a one bedroom, 845 square feet for two bedroom and maybe 1000 square for the small number of three bedroom apartments. We were a family of five in a two bedroom.
You walked to school, to the grocery store, to church and the synagogue and ran down to the playground. Everyone knew you. We were the first in our families to go to college. We were rich in friendships and lucky to grow up in a confident and disciplined culture. Did I mention it was fun.
You walked to school, to the grocery store, to church and the synagogue and ran down to the playground. Everyone knew you. We were the first in our families to go to college. We were rich in friendships and lucky to grow up in a confident and disciplined culture. Did I mention it was fun.
20
These parents choosing to have their family live on top of each other in cramped quarters because of pre school friendships shows they do not have input from parents with older kids. Kids will make friends anywhere and especially with girls , just because they are friends with a kid in pre school does not mean they will remain friends with that kid as they progress through school. Cliques and groups are formed at school that has nothing to do with where your apt is or who you knew as a toddler.
33
Very true. As I watch my kids, those BFF that they have when they were in preK and grade school have all moved on. There's no "falling out" but they grow apart. And they all move on to make other friends. That's normal for growing up.
For those families noted in the article, I'd say it's more like the parents want to stay together rather than the kids because kids can and will make friends anywhere. Romanticizing how their ingenuity (of a custom-made queen-sized double-bunk) will only go so far. Wait till their kids start to whine and bitch about the tight quarters, and the parents will be sorry why they gave up on cheaper, larger quarters, once upon a time.
For those families noted in the article, I'd say it's more like the parents want to stay together rather than the kids because kids can and will make friends anywhere. Romanticizing how their ingenuity (of a custom-made queen-sized double-bunk) will only go so far. Wait till their kids start to whine and bitch about the tight quarters, and the parents will be sorry why they gave up on cheaper, larger quarters, once upon a time.
4
The sharp disparities in comments here--the lack of understanding, resentments, condemnations vs. the appeal of having kids around, the value of "community", the realities of cramped urban living, sharply rising costs--is a microcosm of the fractured urban housing markets around the country--i.e., the gentrification of San Francisco by Silicon Valley companies and their employees--and the virtual disappearance of affordable housing for low and middle-income families in attractive neighborhoods.
Sixty five years ago, my working class family moved into a city housing project that was a paradise for kids: verdant green spaces, playgrounds, clean, well-maintained buildings and common areas, dependable services, a newly built public school close by. I visited that same project recently on a trip back to NY; it's now a depressing, ghettoized slum, in a state of near-total neglect. So much for "community".
Sixty five years ago, my working class family moved into a city housing project that was a paradise for kids: verdant green spaces, playgrounds, clean, well-maintained buildings and common areas, dependable services, a newly built public school close by. I visited that same project recently on a trip back to NY; it's now a depressing, ghettoized slum, in a state of near-total neglect. So much for "community".
11
There are plenty of safe and attractive neighborhoods in southern Brooklyn where $2100 a month would get a family a 3 bedroom apartment, but they are not chic enough for the type of people portrayed in this article.
10
I find it all rather sad. Friendships are important but family is even more important and for the health of both adults and kids, physical separation is key. Sleeping altogether in one room? No space to be alone? Home schooling? Seems like an advertisement for the deBlasio "chic" of the 250 sq foot apartment - mass brainwashing to mask the truth...there are a lot of wonderful places to live that actually let you LIVE, in both the sub and ex-urbs. Common NYers - go visit Winter Haven Florida - the place of most income equality in the US today. (And this comes from a Brooklynite who lives in both places)
18
I would like to require all of the negative commenters on this article to live in the building for a year! It's become so common to read hateful comments about parents. Having lived in tight quarters all over the U.S., I can tell you that the most entitled folks I've run across are the ones without children who ruffle so easily. You were once children, probably heard more than seen, probably loved and tolerated (like I was) by kindly, American, mixed-cultural neighbors and probably feeling so pissed off by this article because your quiet, spacious home was not filled with the kind of lively, loving energy portrayed in this article. Stay in your isolated, quiet, tasteful spaces. I'll take the happy, child-filled building over your world any day!
14
Well I encourage you to live in a building (as I do) where children scream at the top of their lungs, racing, playing, riding their bikes and scooters, banging on doors, occasionally urinating on the floor, eating (yes, bringing roaches) in the hallway. For hours every day.
People who allow their children to behave any way they desire without thinking about others or respecting anybody's else's space are, in fact, grooming them to be self-entitled psychos. There are TONS of parks and play spaces in NYC for children to play in. For FREE. I grew up here and never had a problem hanging out with friends. We just didn't do it in the hallway because we knew we couldn't.
The energy in this article isn't loving. It's delusional and selfish.
People who allow their children to behave any way they desire without thinking about others or respecting anybody's else's space are, in fact, grooming them to be self-entitled psychos. There are TONS of parks and play spaces in NYC for children to play in. For FREE. I grew up here and never had a problem hanging out with friends. We just didn't do it in the hallway because we knew we couldn't.
The energy in this article isn't loving. It's delusional and selfish.
16
And I thought I had it bad in a building that has filled up with post-collegiate drunken fraternity guys n' gals.
2
So, may we ask, just why are you in Uber-suburban Louisville CO? As your former neighbor (18.5 years in Southwest Boulder/gorgeous open-space surrounded Shanahan Ridge, I have to laugh at your comment. And snicker a bit at your hypocrisy, frankly. Now living in a townhouse community in SE Denver, hard on the Highline Canal and quite communitarian. Quite the perfect solution for this empty nester. And thanking the Universe for those excellent, splendid Boulder Valley Schools!
Former 80303-er.
Former 80303-er.
An enchanting article -- it takes me back 35 years to when my daughter ran unfettered through our little neighborhood with her buddies in summer, using every house as their own for bathroom breaks or to show off a turtle plucked from the reservoir banks. Parents knew one another and there was always someone around to consult on parenting concerns, which were usually limited to the occasional school outbreak of head lice. Being raised by a herd lessens the load on every parent and permits children freedom from micro-managing.
No one can tell me otherwise but that the increase in drugging of children is in part correlated with not enough time spent being wild outdoors, yelling and racing around and feeling free of households of parental rushing and stress.
No doubt any response will be a tsk-tsk about how children should be reined in and not bother anyone by being children. But I stand firm on this. It is adults and their decisions that are making many of our children "dysfunctional." The children are not dysfunctional -- being isolated from the herd is the issue.
No one can tell me otherwise but that the increase in drugging of children is in part correlated with not enough time spent being wild outdoors, yelling and racing around and feeling free of households of parental rushing and stress.
No doubt any response will be a tsk-tsk about how children should be reined in and not bother anyone by being children. But I stand firm on this. It is adults and their decisions that are making many of our children "dysfunctional." The children are not dysfunctional -- being isolated from the herd is the issue.
12
Growing up on Long Island during the height of the baby boom, I well knew the fun, with all its joy and warts, of a neighborhood filled with children. Always friends to ride bikes or color chalk on sidewalks, play dress-up in each others' basements, throw basketballs in driveways, build snow forts and go sledding. We had space, friends, squabbles, clubs, simple toys, and full school busses, and we were always cautioned not to make too much noise, not to annoy the older neighbors - the Cordsens and Mrs. Little. We learned to have kid-fun while practicing respect and courtesy - indeed, we were expected to rake their lawns, shovel their walks, and feed their cats when they were away - and not expect to get paid for doing it. There is much good about a closeknit neighborhood, which my kids growing up on a farm did not have. But, this article did not mention how a neighborhood provides more than companions, it also gives the opportunity for kids to learn appropriate behavior, cooperation, and respect for others, taught by parents who model such behavior. A neighborhood isn't just about fun, it is about learning to live cooperatively, how to be a GOOD neighbor, helping each other, respecting and thinking about the wishes and needs of others.
22
Bravo to people who realize more space does not equal more happiness. Of course one questions if they're driving some neighbors crazy with children playing in the halls. But it's fantastic to see that some are placing relationships over the clearly excessive world of 3,000 square feet for 2.5 kids that is far too common in this country. Kudos to them. (And best of luck to the hopefully accommodating neighbors who aren't a part of the soccer match in the corridor)
10
I thought this was a great article. I lived in Queens as a kid and I loved it. I had friends and we went places around the city. Yes we fought and even our families fought but eventually we all made up. I come from a large family, one of six, so my parents wanted more space and to move us out of the city, to South Jersey. I had friends in Queens, I never really had any friends in South Jersey. I think these people are wonderful and understand the true meaning of life - love people not things.
6
These families can have spacious living but will have to move out of the city. Democracy allows them the freedom to choose to live in crowded conditions (so that they can live in the city)
2
There's something about this article that annoys the heck out of me, beyond the selfishness of families co-opting public space in the building for themselves. The whole thing feels unreal, like one long Facebook post dramatizing how wonderful one's life is. Look at how the kids are dressed. Do they do the Ralph Lauren kids-as-lifestyle-accessories thing every day or did they have a fashion consultant for the shoot? It all seems so staged and perfect.
47
I assume those photos were staged.
1
There is a lot of talk about how positive this is for young children, and no doubt the communal spirit can be a good thing. But what about older kids? I would think the last thing some of them want or need is parents and younger siblings smothering them day and night. I grew up with relative privacy in a small 3-bedroom house and it still drove me crazy that my parents and I shared a wall. After a certain age, like 12 or 13, kids need a little privacy.
12
The critics of these parents are over zealous. From the descriptions it appears that the parents have taken an intelligent and educated route to their living choice. One bathroom shared by two adults and three children sounds horrific to those raised in surburbia but it was the norm for millions of tenement residents - and they got used to that accommodation - and didn't suffer over it. And it's the norm in Sty Town too - the much desired "middle-class" housing offering rent controlled apartments.
I doubt these families will remain in these cramped quarters for the duration of child raising - it'll be passing phase that they will recall fondly - but it time will thank the Lord it passed.
I doubt these families will remain in these cramped quarters for the duration of child raising - it'll be passing phase that they will recall fondly - but it time will thank the Lord it passed.
5
It isn't the shared bathroom that people have problems with. The shared bedroom. two kids in the top bunk, 1 kid and two parents in the bottom bunk. I know new yorkers who live in similar circumstances and I just cannot wrap my head around it. With the delivered organic groceries and the expensive children's clothes the thing these kids will remember is that they NEVER had their own space. Lucky kids have their own bedrooms---not every family can give every child their own bedroom--but EVERY child has a right to their own bed
10
Boy does this remind me, why I left NYC in '69/'70. I currently live in the country on 40 acres with no neighbors (or kids), few cars (3 pass daily and one is USPS), or pollution in general. I go out at night and just look at the stars and it's perfectly quiet. When I got back from overseas in '69 and lived on W. 96th street it was a awesome huge co-op 3/2 apartment (ultra expensive these days) but after only 2 years I knew I had to go. My buddy bought it, and still owns it.
Conversely, I have a son living in a 1/1 way down Madison Avenue in a loft-style building. He bought recently for $1,196,000. My garage is over 2,250 sq' and could fit almost 3 of his apartments. I realize everything is location, location, location, and I live in the sticks but then again the interstate is 2 miles away and the mall is the next exit. Besides movie theaters and every major retailer and restaurants too. I'm sorry to say this article is bizarre to me. The thought of living like these people in the article, is frightening on many different levels for me. My freedom in life, goes hand and hand with a certain amount of privacy and personal space. I don't think living on top of each other is healthy for anyone. There are communes for that. I love the big apple, but the cost of living there has long since gone with the wind!
Conversely, I have a son living in a 1/1 way down Madison Avenue in a loft-style building. He bought recently for $1,196,000. My garage is over 2,250 sq' and could fit almost 3 of his apartments. I realize everything is location, location, location, and I live in the sticks but then again the interstate is 2 miles away and the mall is the next exit. Besides movie theaters and every major retailer and restaurants too. I'm sorry to say this article is bizarre to me. The thought of living like these people in the article, is frightening on many different levels for me. My freedom in life, goes hand and hand with a certain amount of privacy and personal space. I don't think living on top of each other is healthy for anyone. There are communes for that. I love the big apple, but the cost of living there has long since gone with the wind!
11
I am all for the considerate behavior of kids and their parents.
But regarding complains from childless people (not those who don't have children yet or those who don't have children living with them) - if you decided not to have children you have to remember that YOU break the law of nature and therefore aren't on a solid moral ground to make your demands.
But regarding complains from childless people (not those who don't have children yet or those who don't have children living with them) - if you decided not to have children you have to remember that YOU break the law of nature and therefore aren't on a solid moral ground to make your demands.
I've "broken the law of nature" and am "not on solid moral ground" because I choose not to have kids? What?? And this bars me from complaining about my neighbors' behaviors? Is that now and forever, or just until I produce a sprog...?
4
People, myself included, who decide not to have children are childfree, not childless. The term “childless” has a negative connotation, as in “homeless,” and implies that those of us who choose not to have children are lacking something in our lives. This is simply not true. The word “childfree” has a positive connotation, as in “carefree,” and makes it clear that we don’t want children. I’m not breaking any law because there is no law. My moral ground is just fine.
Furthermore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect people to use the common areas of an apartment building for their intended purpose. I shouldn’t need to “demand” anything. It should be common sense.
Furthermore, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect people to use the common areas of an apartment building for their intended purpose. I shouldn’t need to “demand” anything. It should be common sense.
8
Wow - people without children break the law of nature and have no moral ground to stand on?
The fact is, you have no idea why individuals or couples don't have children. Maybe they wanted them but couldn't have them for biological or social reasons.
The biased view you expressed is so vile, it makes me hope that you too defied nature and decided not to reproduce.
The fact is, you have no idea why individuals or couples don't have children. Maybe they wanted them but couldn't have them for biological or social reasons.
The biased view you expressed is so vile, it makes me hope that you too defied nature and decided not to reproduce.
6
Sounds amazing. I'm entirely jealous. I live in San Francisco where few people are parents and the parents I do find seem to be aloof. i tried, hard, to befriend the other family in our building but got nothing but rejection. Maybe I'll move to NY.
3
Sorry to "go there", but I'm serious: sex? Hello? When? Where? How?
I think the communal brownstone spirit described here is fantastic. I live upstate in a Brooklyn-ish neighborhood (yes, they exist, not my fault if you've never been here and so don't know that) and I like doing things like keeping my door propped open when I'm feeling welcoming and encouraging socializing on the stoop and roof. But this article describes a whole other level, and I really admire that.
But all that said: uhm, sex? Hello???? When? Where? How????????
I think the communal brownstone spirit described here is fantastic. I live upstate in a Brooklyn-ish neighborhood (yes, they exist, not my fault if you've never been here and so don't know that) and I like doing things like keeping my door propped open when I'm feeling welcoming and encouraging socializing on the stoop and roof. But this article describes a whole other level, and I really admire that.
But all that said: uhm, sex? Hello???? When? Where? How????????
13
Based on the number of children in this article, the parents seem to manage just fine in that category. ;)
1
I don't know the answer either, but somehow those people living in a 2-room tenement apartment at the turn of the 20th century on the Lower East Side where they were 4 or 5 people living in a bed managed to do the deed and reproduce. And apparently many Colonial homes were also just one room, and their descendants are here with us today, so...Sex happens. I don't know how, but it does.
1
What does it matter after all you are to end up in dust and disappear in the unknown whether you lived with lot of space or little? It is how you enjoyed the little time you lived here.
3
But what about nature?
As a single lesbian mom, I faced intense peer pressure to move from "snobby" Manhattan to Park Slope, where other lesbian moms were building friendships into these kinds of cooperative parenting arrangements. I couldn't live without nature, though, & so demurred. We moved to Litchfield County, CT when my elder son was 5, the younger 2.
It's turned out to be one of the best life choices I've ever made. We live on 6 acres. We belong to a lake/beach club down the road that's provided the kind of freewheeling play-all-day interactions among children that I recall from my childhood in the '70s. Tight-knit friendships among the kids have come as naturally as the green beans twining around strings on the back porch screen. The cats have a "catio," the dog an invisible fence. We became gay pioneers in CT. We avoided the stranglehold of trendiness & too-much-of-a-muchness that comes with cramming too many human beings into a small neighborhood (for which Park Slope is now infamous).
And we get out into nature almost every day. Biking, running, sailing; lake, Sound or river swimming; kayaking, hiking, geocaching, xcountry skiing, maple sugaring, stargazing, birding, etc. Even on an off day, just driving to town means passing a hillsides of fire-lit sugar maples, or a series of rambling historic homes, each unique with its own additions or landscaping.
I stay in touch with my old crowd in NYC via email, but I wouldn't trade lives with them for the world.
As a single lesbian mom, I faced intense peer pressure to move from "snobby" Manhattan to Park Slope, where other lesbian moms were building friendships into these kinds of cooperative parenting arrangements. I couldn't live without nature, though, & so demurred. We moved to Litchfield County, CT when my elder son was 5, the younger 2.
It's turned out to be one of the best life choices I've ever made. We live on 6 acres. We belong to a lake/beach club down the road that's provided the kind of freewheeling play-all-day interactions among children that I recall from my childhood in the '70s. Tight-knit friendships among the kids have come as naturally as the green beans twining around strings on the back porch screen. The cats have a "catio," the dog an invisible fence. We became gay pioneers in CT. We avoided the stranglehold of trendiness & too-much-of-a-muchness that comes with cramming too many human beings into a small neighborhood (for which Park Slope is now infamous).
And we get out into nature almost every day. Biking, running, sailing; lake, Sound or river swimming; kayaking, hiking, geocaching, xcountry skiing, maple sugaring, stargazing, birding, etc. Even on an off day, just driving to town means passing a hillsides of fire-lit sugar maples, or a series of rambling historic homes, each unique with its own additions or landscaping.
I stay in touch with my old crowd in NYC via email, but I wouldn't trade lives with them for the world.
13
We live in NYC and are out in nature every weekend. All you need is a car. The Hudson Valley is our playground in the fall (we love Tarrytown in October, especially), as are the orchards in New Jersey, and Jones Beach - the wide open ocean - in spring and summer. We are also members of the Botanical Garden in the Bronx and we love Central Park (how is THAT not nature?!). And speaking of Litchfield Country - Grandma has a house there so we visit often.
We grew up in a Finger Lakes hamlet of fewer than twenty houses. Our small gang of boys and girls played together, outside in the sunshine all day long in summer and building snow forts after school in winter. We went to the same small school together for thirteen years, from kindergarten through twelfth grade. We scattered literally all over the world, but we have maintained contact with the gang and with many of our schoolmates and get together every couple of years; my closest friends are childhood friends from those halcyon years of more than six decades ago. We are far from home but anchored securely in our lifelong friendships. Whether the youngsters featured in this article will be so fortunate remains to be seen. Living in neighboring houses in a rural setting gives families the option of personal space, but cheek by jowl in an apartment building is like a big, active, extended family under one roof, happy and supportive, unless an awkward situation arises--think "The Slap"--and then not so cozy. So far, so good. From many comments here, though, it appears that such an arrangement might not be so swell for neighbors who have a right to peace and quiet. We hope that part of the experience the parents value for these children is the opportunity to learn to be considerate of others and still make memories together.
3
Ha! Bless the liberal hearts. They would want the government to bring in hundreds of thousands of refugees conveniently out of their sight and paid for by the taxes of wealthy. Anyone voicing concern would be called xenophobic redneck. But, a few children running in the hall ways and they come out swinging.
Did the article mention any neighbor complaining about children running in hallways? May be all families in those floors have children. Why do you assume the plight of a childless family not in evidence and come to its support. Do I sense a hint of jealousy of a childhood in the suburbs devoid of camaraderie and such spontaneous fun?
Did the article mention any neighbor complaining about children running in hallways? May be all families in those floors have children. Why do you assume the plight of a childless family not in evidence and come to its support. Do I sense a hint of jealousy of a childhood in the suburbs devoid of camaraderie and such spontaneous fun?
4
This sounds, in part, like hipsters up to their usual tiresomeness -- that is, fetishizing or "discovering" what many people before them have always done. In this instance, live in cramped quarters because that's all they could afford.
As for the kids in the hall: no. In my condo building in town, there are almost no families with children. But if there were, should all the residents shoulder the responsibility (and liability) for children playing outside their apartments or at the pool?
Finally, why do all the photographs look like something out of that awful Kinfolk? I've got it: Because this is the Kinfolk version of a real estate story.
As for the kids in the hall: no. In my condo building in town, there are almost no families with children. But if there were, should all the residents shoulder the responsibility (and liability) for children playing outside their apartments or at the pool?
Finally, why do all the photographs look like something out of that awful Kinfolk? I've got it: Because this is the Kinfolk version of a real estate story.
11
Wow, the jadedness in the comments! Native New Yorker and Manhattan resident here. The sounds of kids playing is actually a nice change from the daily noises New Yorkers have to endure everyday. As long as the playing is not too early or too late of an hour, I don't see what the problem is (and I am childless!)
5
People have different lives. Some people value quiet. Especially sufferers of PTSD when they are at home. Often, this is not something they want to share with their neighbors, so being aware and respectful goes a long way.
3
There's a lyric, I think from the song "New York" to the effect that "if you can make it there you can make it anywhere." Maybe that's true. But I also think it's true that there's a lot of people who can't really make it anywhere and and for whom simply being a New Yorker is their claim to fame, as living in NYC seems to carry with it a certain amount of cachet these days, at least in some circles. I sense that some of these parents fall into that category. Not only can they not afford the space they would like here, they may not be able to afford it anywhere, so they convince themselves they are making a sacrifice for the sake of their kids' friendships. Further, for famillies of limited means, NYC offers a lot of freebies, educational, cultural, sports-wise, etc. If these folks decided to instead cram themselves into something perhaps slightly larger in the suburbs, not only would it not have the cachet that saying one lives in South Slope or wherever has, but they would likely find far fewer free opportunities for their kids.
5
I'm a parent, and I guess I'm pretty liberal and open-minded, but is there something just plain irritating about these kids and their obnoxious first names?
23
Seriously! Thanks for the laugh!
1
A few comments.
The families profiled have mostly pre-school or elementary school children, and/or are in areas with good schools and/or are affluent enough to make this choice. As children grow older (and bigger!), the lack of space will become a bigger problem for both parents and kids. The quality (or lack thereof) in the local schools will become a much bigger factor in deciding where to live, impelling not only a move to another neighborhood, but the traditional move from city to suburb; given a forced choice between good friends or good schools, parents will choose good schools.
This seems to be a voluntary, positive choice for the affluent, a more negative forced choice for those less so.
Others have commented on childrens' appropriation of common space as play space and/or noisy space, without regard for neighbors who might not appreciate it. This can be an issue particularly in buildings with elderly people who might not relish slipping on childrens' toys or buildings whose walls or floors are acoustically thin. One family's "this is community, get over it!" is another couple's "I want some privacy and quiet!" One person's "having kids around is great!" is another's "I don't want to have to be responsible for looking out for them."
Close relationships among families, with kids who play together and parents who can look after each others' kids, are not unique to small city apartments; they exist in the burbs too.
The families profiled have mostly pre-school or elementary school children, and/or are in areas with good schools and/or are affluent enough to make this choice. As children grow older (and bigger!), the lack of space will become a bigger problem for both parents and kids. The quality (or lack thereof) in the local schools will become a much bigger factor in deciding where to live, impelling not only a move to another neighborhood, but the traditional move from city to suburb; given a forced choice between good friends or good schools, parents will choose good schools.
This seems to be a voluntary, positive choice for the affluent, a more negative forced choice for those less so.
Others have commented on childrens' appropriation of common space as play space and/or noisy space, without regard for neighbors who might not appreciate it. This can be an issue particularly in buildings with elderly people who might not relish slipping on childrens' toys or buildings whose walls or floors are acoustically thin. One family's "this is community, get over it!" is another couple's "I want some privacy and quiet!" One person's "having kids around is great!" is another's "I don't want to have to be responsible for looking out for them."
Close relationships among families, with kids who play together and parents who can look after each others' kids, are not unique to small city apartments; they exist in the burbs too.
22
I wholeheartedly agree and would also add that noise is disturbing even for the not-yet-elderly: older children or teens who might keep different hours. This is indeed a problem even within small families in relatively quiet buildings--my older son can sleep til noon on Sunday while his little brother is up at 7. This sort of "everyone-into-the-pool" fun among affluent Columbia families cannot possibly last. Having a quiet corner of one's own is essential for everyone's well being. Let's not confuse community with chaos!
3
Many years ago we delayed moving from our small, worn-out house and crummy school district to better environs because our preschool daughter was joined at the hip to 2 neighbor girls. Basically I felt the same way the parents in this article do -- we couldn't possibly break up such great friendships.
But eventually we had to, so reluctantly we did. Our daughter made new friends; we made great friends among their parents.
Just the other day I was reminiscing with my now-adult daughter about her absolutely best preschool friend, the one who kept us tethered so many years ago.
She doesn't remember her.
But eventually we had to, so reluctantly we did. Our daughter made new friends; we made great friends among their parents.
Just the other day I was reminiscing with my now-adult daughter about her absolutely best preschool friend, the one who kept us tethered so many years ago.
She doesn't remember her.
54
Thank you for this common sense perspective! I have two toddler girls and they have lovely friends in the neighborhood, but the cost of living in NYC is draining us and we are considering a move. I keep worrying about their friends, but our pediatrician told us that children don't remember anything from before age 5! I cannot believe the family that gave up subsidized university housing to stay in a tiny, crowded apartment. That's crazy! More space in NYC is like finding a needle in a haystack!
2
It is a wonderful thing to value friendships and community over more material concerns. But at a certain point, too many people in too small a place threatens sanitation. As well as the plumbing. Is such crowding fair to the others in the buildings? I don't think so.
But then I haven't lived in an apartment for about 27 years.
But then I haven't lived in an apartment for about 27 years.
12
Val in Brooklyn, NY to Passion for Peaches
Good point and good question: sanitation & plumbing. Oh, boy!
It's nice that everyone's on good terms (for now) but, the whole thing sounds a little claustrophobic to me. For all the people speaking of how Norman Rockwell-ish this seems and criticizing those who question the arrangement, I wonder if they've considered what you've brought up?
Sanitation and plumbing are not small considerations. Someone mentioned all the families' chipping in and buying a large property for a commune or something. Maybe that's more realistic--for the length they still get along.
. . . Ah, well . . . whatever.
Submitted 10-26-15@3:03 a.m. EST
Good point and good question: sanitation & plumbing. Oh, boy!
It's nice that everyone's on good terms (for now) but, the whole thing sounds a little claustrophobic to me. For all the people speaking of how Norman Rockwell-ish this seems and criticizing those who question the arrangement, I wonder if they've considered what you've brought up?
Sanitation and plumbing are not small considerations. Someone mentioned all the families' chipping in and buying a large property for a commune or something. Maybe that's more realistic--for the length they still get along.
. . . Ah, well . . . whatever.
Submitted 10-26-15@3:03 a.m. EST
1
This article is not about kids making noise in the hall ways of apartment buildings and bothering their neighbors, it is about how important communities are to families raising small children. When my kids were 6,4 and 3 months I was heartbroken when we moved from our small apartment to a house in the suburbs. I think a supportive and caring community is an essential part of raising a family and it is worth much more than any kind of material wealth- or large family living space.
5
The article brought me back old memories when I too grew up in a close knit neighborhood with families living in small rooms. Of course, now we have shifted to our own apartment. I still miss the warmth love and affection I enjoyed with other families and my friends. All the mothers were very generous and kids would eat in any house. In Tamil Nadu, we could still find such communities living together as one strong family.
I am happy to learn that in New York, one of the richest cities in the world, people are living in small rooms and sharing a great comradeship. If we analyze such communities, brotherhood and familial ties would be strong and children brought up in such surroundings grow up with belief in family and God.
I am happy to learn that in New York, one of the richest cities in the world, people are living in small rooms and sharing a great comradeship. If we analyze such communities, brotherhood and familial ties would be strong and children brought up in such surroundings grow up with belief in family and God.
1
This article reminds me of a recent NYT feature, were teenagers made the "decision" were their parents would buy multi million dollar apartments in Manhattan. The Big Apple is not part of the real world anymore.......
12
Our apartment building had a couple of families that assumed the public spaces could be used as a playground for their children. The building's owners disagreed with them.
27
Regarding the article, it's lovely to see families in Brooklyn maintaining and prioritizing social ties. Of course, it had to be happening--people are people after all--but it's lovely to see. They can move at any time, but childhood bonds are invaluable.
Regarding the comments, I swear to god some people would turn this entire country into one giant retirement home if they could. Get over yourselves and buy some earplugs. Mammals make babies and babies are noisy and ridiculous. Nothing you can or will ever say will stop people from having sex and making babies and those babies turning into mobile little catastrophes, so don't you think it's time to make peace with it? I mean if there were ever an argument you'll never win, the whole "I don't want to ever see or hear a child human" is it, unless you can buy your own island. Everyone put up with you when you were little.
Regarding the comments, I swear to god some people would turn this entire country into one giant retirement home if they could. Get over yourselves and buy some earplugs. Mammals make babies and babies are noisy and ridiculous. Nothing you can or will ever say will stop people from having sex and making babies and those babies turning into mobile little catastrophes, so don't you think it's time to make peace with it? I mean if there were ever an argument you'll never win, the whole "I don't want to ever see or hear a child human" is it, unless you can buy your own island. Everyone put up with you when you were little.
12
How do you feel about the toys (and probably edible items too) all over the hall floors? Those two older boys quiely sitting on the steps with their Gameboys, or whatever kids have these days, is one thing, but toddlers! Why can't they play in one apartment or another?
1
All true, of course, except that if I've been in my quiet apartment for 30 years, and a young couple moves in next door one random day, who start on another random day in my existence having children - it's one thing to hear the kids through the walls/ceiling/ floor - and another to trip on not-cleaned-up toys or have to scramble around crawling kids with my arms full of grocery/laundry bags in public space. Community, and neighbors' children ARE great, but my existence also has value and deserves reasonable respect. Parents, and their families, have no more right to a sense of entitlement - or ownership - of common space than I do (even if they are mammals who had sex that resulted in babies who perpetuate the species) - and allowing kids unfettered use of public space not designated or agreed upon by greater community of a building is selfish and does not recognize my equal right to use the space. It's a simple matter of consideration of others in your "community" with different lifestyles. Know also no bitter old biddy here - I lived 20 years in a 600 sq. foot Chelsea co-op with family space so tight we had to take the baseboard molding off bedroom alcove to squeeze the crib between wall and our bed and moved when kid 3 1/2 and a kid born same week as ours right down the hall. Have TONS of experience in this category. Selfish is just selfish. Children are not an excuse to be inconsiderate of others - even when undertaking noble cause of perpetuating a species.
4
Like kittens, children outgrow the cute stage pretty fast. Having their own space will soon be important and the best friends of today, may be the people they don't want to hang out with tomorrow. How these people can impose their children on the other tenants is beyond me. I left Brooklyn when my kids were young and I am grateful they had space and sports and a yard to play in. They were in a safe neighborhood, where they could ride bikes and skateboards and visit neighbors on their own. Did I miss Brooklyn, sure, but when I go back and visit friends in their teenie stuffed row houses I get claustrophobic. I can't even imagine living in a starter apartment with kids. The real problem is that apartment prices are being driven up by offshore money and people don't even live in those apartments.
20
We lived in a small apartment in NYC when I was a kid, until our family of four was becoming a family of five. At that point, my parents probably thought it was imperative to find more space, especially with three kids under four years old! We moved to NJ, then to Long Island. The moves also corresponded with a better job for my dad, who had finished college by then, and a sociall trend favoring moves to 'surburbia' that gripped much of the urban population in the early 1960s. We then found scads of friends on our new streets on the north shore.
5
God Love you, but you NYC effete coastal people who want to live in tiny boxes like this are just crazy to the rest of us out here in Flyover Country.
13
Miami is flyover country? Who knew?
How sad that the NYT again picks a great topic but puts the wrong spin on it. So everybody is hung up on the noise and inconvenience these kids are causing to the neighbors, whereas the real point of the article should have been that people are looking for a community and making sacrifices to stay in one. Many of us stay in our small apartments to be close to our and our kids' friends to help each other and make life easier and more fun, and are respectful of our neighbors and not like the entitled parents from the article. Did they specifically pick them to get a rise our of the readers? Cheap trick to get attention to this otherwise spot on article.
6
Most of the commentors are shocked at this choice, but it's exactly how people live in poor countries and how we probably lived as we were evolving. A bunch of people living in one room, but with a large outdoors to also explore. Yes, you have people without kids who have to be around kids. I'm a person without kids and I don't see anything wrong with that. I would rather have a big boisterous extended family around me than be physically comfortable and isolated.
5
Sounds like a commune to me.
Also, staying in a small home just so your 6-year-old can continue to play with another 6-year-old? Really, who's the boss here? It's new York. There are playgrounds, and playdates. If a friendship is good enough, it'll last the move to another building.
Also, staying in a small home just so your 6-year-old can continue to play with another 6-year-old? Really, who's the boss here? It's new York. There are playgrounds, and playdates. If a friendship is good enough, it'll last the move to another building.
24
Every parent wants what they think is best for their kids. Good luck to these families. I hope they are happy.
I grew up in a similar housing situation. But it wasn't a choice my parents were making, it was just the financial reality. I shared a room with at least three brothers at a time until I was 17. By the time I was 12 I couldn't wait to get out.
I grew up in a similar housing situation. But it wasn't a choice my parents were making, it was just the financial reality. I shared a room with at least three brothers at a time until I was 17. By the time I was 12 I couldn't wait to get out.
7
As the housing market raises rents and forces people to more resemble the worker's paradise in Moscow prior to the fall of the wall, articles like this simply make excuses for the terrible real estate practices sweeping the country from Portland, Maine to Portland, Oregon where people are sleeping under bridges and traditions are thrown away in the garbage because precious things cannot be stored for future generations. How different from the Italy of Tuscany or other European countries we like to feel superior to. These tight bonds were just as strong on the Quapaw Reservation in Picher, Oklahoma and above 110th street in Harlem or NW, Washington but sooner or later these "romantic" neighborhoods are gentrified, apartments are expanded and these people have no where to go. Welcome to the American paradise. Who will the future blame as the current "Robber Barons" as the old WASP establishment was blamed? Who will be the next group cycling outside to the top of the pile tor their moment in the sun only to cool off and lose like the people they succeeded?
2
A lot of jealous readers here. They think the parents entitled and children spoiled. Quite on the contrary, while it might be idealized, the article seems to suggest villaging the world is possible where multiculturism is a way to teach a more tolerant society with childhood bonds
9
What an obnoxious sense of entitlement people have who think that the entire world wants to listen to their spoiled children yell, scream and play in the hallways and other common areas of the buildings they live in. Get over yourselves; you don't own the entire world.
31
Although in Cambridge, MA we have a LOT more space than the families described here (and avoid the multi-unit common space issues some commenters point out) I can completely understand why some families choose 'less space, less comfort' and 'more fun, more friends, more community.' We have been so lucky to have like-minded friends and family in our neighborhood, and it makes the period of child-rearing much easier when shared. It's a short period of time for both kids and adults, but life-long friendships and so many fun memories can result. Maybe worth it. Depends on what you value.
5
Some places are just more kid friendly than others. One apartment building's residents could find children in the hallways a crisis situation while another welcomes their play. It's the same thing in suburban neighborhoods. In one neighborhood, parents call the police when children ride their bikes on a residential street with parental supervision. In another neighborhood, kids play soccer on busy streets and the motorists anticipate they'll be there, drive cautiously, wave and smile.
4
Geez. Living in communes used to be voluntary, not something you forced on the hapless neighbors by encroaching on every inch of the common areas.
Kids growing up in the cramped apartments of yesteryear would've been creamed by their parents for riding bikes in the hallways or filling them toys that the neighbors could trip over, coming out of elevators with arms full of groceries or something. And in those days, almost no one worked from home (a seamstress or tailor might have done). Now many people do and have the right to a reasonably quiet interior environment.
We were out playing all day or after school, and knew to be civilized when we got home.
Thank God I escaped New York. I have two bedrooms/2 baths for less than these people are paying for their hamster quarters. And people here are very fond of children but do not inflict their darlings on others who have no moral obligation to dote on them.
Kids growing up in the cramped apartments of yesteryear would've been creamed by their parents for riding bikes in the hallways or filling them toys that the neighbors could trip over, coming out of elevators with arms full of groceries or something. And in those days, almost no one worked from home (a seamstress or tailor might have done). Now many people do and have the right to a reasonably quiet interior environment.
We were out playing all day or after school, and knew to be civilized when we got home.
Thank God I escaped New York. I have two bedrooms/2 baths for less than these people are paying for their hamster quarters. And people here are very fond of children but do not inflict their darlings on others who have no moral obligation to dote on them.
21
What ever happened to not having more children than you can afford which includes providing appropriate housing?
37
Bravo for these families! In this day & age, community & relationships are not very important compared to wealth and spacious living quarters...yet we all know, when the "rubber meets the road," relationships are what matter.
I'm sure these children will thrive bc they learned early how to have important relationships.
I'm sure these children will thrive bc they learned early how to have important relationships.
8
My total living space is nearly 5000 sq ft. NY ain't for me.
3
Before I had children, I had a neighbor in my poor NYC neighborhood who had two kids in a one-room studio that was the same size as mine. She was very sweet, although she didn't speak good English, and I had no issue with her letting the kids run in the halls a bit while she watched from her doorway. And I worked from home! The "children should be seen and not heard" crowd needs to get a grip. This is the way New York has always been -- kids roaming around and playing. I'd much rather have kids in the hallway at 4 p.m. than someone watching loud tv or playing music until 4 a.m.
22
Talk about entitlement. I refer to the expressions of outrage at the idea of kids playing in the *gasp* hallways. As population density increases and space becomes less affordable, city living becomes increasingly similar to dorm living. Much of the action occurs in the hallways and common areas, as well as outdoors. This has also always been the case in less affluent and immigrant neighborhoods. Want quiet, move to a wealthy suburban enclave. I really think that a great deal of the outrage here has to do with apparently educated, affluent white folks acting so ghetto. But, what do you expect when the same educated, affluent folks can no longer afford what might be considered adequate space in our wonderful city.
8
What a silly reason to stay cramped in a small living space. Wherever these families move the children will surely make new friends.
16
[[With the impending arrival of a third child, many families would begin plotting their suburban escape. For the Gilmores, a family of five in South Park Slope, Brooklyn, this wasn’t an option. For the last three and a half years, they have lived in a 500-square-foot one-bedroom on 11th Street, for which they pay $2,100 a month.]]
Meh! So they basically are living like Mexican immigrants…too many kids, too little space.
Who cares?
Meh! So they basically are living like Mexican immigrants…too many kids, too little space.
Who cares?
14
They could move south to Sunset Park and get an appropriate amount of space for the same cost, but then they would have to live near real Mexicans, and people like this like their diversity in small doses.
2
What a disgusting and racist comment you just made.
It's obvious you didn't get the whole point of this article. Get schooled.
It's obvious you didn't get the whole point of this article. Get schooled.
Dear Lord. They cannot afford to move to places where large young families have an appropriate amount of space? Or they simply do not wish to? Or what? I cannot imagine the nightmare of having to share a building with some of these people, who apparently think nothing of letting their kids ride scooters and kick balls in the hall ways. Do these parents devote one instant of time to thinking about their neighbors? I cannot think of a better argument for birth control than the behavior of these parents.
30
Couple of thoughts - 1) Your kids can develop the same relationships with other kids in the suburbs. 2) Your family of five may be staying in a 500-square-foot apartment, but your neighbors won't. As soon as they move, your kids will lose touch with their kids (and you will lose touch with the vast majority of the parents).
15
Actually, Joseph, many suburbs are enclaves of children seated 12 hours a day at home in front of their computers because their parents are either not home or terrified their kids will be kidnapped from their gated communities.
Sounds like co-housing which only works if it is actually a co-housing community which these buildings do not appear to be.
13
I am soooo glad my parents did not choose to live like this.
I am sooooo glad I don't have friends like these parents - who put their children into unnatural situations that will not prepare the kids for a sane adulthood.
It's not that having childhood friendships isn't important - it is simply that living 5 people to 500 sq feet and children playing in hallways while their parents cater to their every whim is weirdly unbalanced. And unbalanced is unbalanced.
I am sooooo glad I don't have friends like these parents - who put their children into unnatural situations that will not prepare the kids for a sane adulthood.
It's not that having childhood friendships isn't important - it is simply that living 5 people to 500 sq feet and children playing in hallways while their parents cater to their every whim is weirdly unbalanced. And unbalanced is unbalanced.
31
Soooo glad you live in the suburbs and not our building. My children are playing with friends in our building's hallway as I write this. We've had both childless and elderly neighbors tell us how nice it is for the community to have children.
Bravo to these families. Americans are some of the loneliest people in the world. If you can make a community in this hateful, spiteful, schadenfreude society, even if only for a while, these could be the best years of your lives.
14
My impression is that the support network among parents is the main motivation behind the parents' housing choices.
12
The mother looks utterly miserable! I would be, too, living like this. Not only the cramped quarters but the lack of privacy and quiet.
19
What privileged, self-indulgent Yuppies these folks are! Who can afford to have so many children in such a small space? They must be sitting on a small fortune. About the home schooling...aren't the schools in Park Slope supposed to be so good? As for the moms...get a life!
17
The photos--while beautiful--appeared posed, as if for an IKEA furniture ad. For me, this made me wonder about the agenda behind the article.
Could be this is PR for the real estate industry--devising yet another way to persuade tenants and homebuyers to accept living in smaller and smaller spaces for increasing rents and home prices? Recently there've been articles about the wonders of paying $1800 a month for a room with common privileges. And young people now accept sublets where they are charged double when two share the same den-like "bedroom" with common privileges.
Years ago people rented illegal basements without windows to keep the rent low. Now we are told that it can be wonderful for several kids and parents to live in a 500 sq ft apt?
What will be next? Campsites on the roof?
Could be this is PR for the real estate industry--devising yet another way to persuade tenants and homebuyers to accept living in smaller and smaller spaces for increasing rents and home prices? Recently there've been articles about the wonders of paying $1800 a month for a room with common privileges. And young people now accept sublets where they are charged double when two share the same den-like "bedroom" with common privileges.
Years ago people rented illegal basements without windows to keep the rent low. Now we are told that it can be wonderful for several kids and parents to live in a 500 sq ft apt?
What will be next? Campsites on the roof?
28
They are posed. Look at the clothes and the kids playing on the floor with their computers. You think their hair just falls like that? They had hair stylists, clothing consultants and who knows how many image consultants on hand. It's just the way it is these days. You can't just have a life, you have to sell it, too. I mean, lots of buildings have kids in it that play together. Why are these people so special? The whole thing sounds like a pr stunt.
When I moved to Greenwich village I paid $55.60 per month. My friends said i was a snob and they got 4 room pads on the east side for $20.+ a month. We had tons of artists for neighbors, it was like Paris in the 1920's. That was when great things came out of the Village and New York. Now New York is blase, low culture and high rents. We had kids too, but it was right to do things for your own convenience at the cost of the kid's convenience.
5
I learned a huge lesson when my kids were young making a school choice based on community/friends. Things change and sometimes the people you plan your life around change their own plans - even when they swear they won't. So as long as you will remain happy with the choices you make even if the things around you change ( as they inevitably do in places like NYC) then you're good.
9
Having had kids in NYC, CT, and VT, I can say, for sure, you and your kids can make these relationships anywhere. You don't need to live in 500 square feet to get them.
19
5 people in 500 square feet? Wow...I'm impressed that these families don't go nuts!
12
indeed! me, I could die any moment considering the fact that i can't have people talking around me continuously..
Wow, what a bunch of grumps in the comments! I think this sounds wonderful, for kids and parents. Such a valuable experience to have friends you love close by, and to share parenting with others. It seems far more natural to me than isolated nuclear families in suburban homes where you never see your neighbors, much less know what their names are.
30
How unusual in this libertarian cesspool to see communitarian values. No 'bowling alone' for this family/community.
Hm, children sleeping above the parents. Is this more of the new abstinence or a new form of sex ed?
34
It's not new, whatever it is...
I felt dirty for wondering the same thing. I was a property manager upstate for several years and supposedly there is a law in my city against this arrangement, for exactly that reason. I say "supposedly" only because I heard it from my sketchy landlord-boss, and have been too lazy to ever confirm it for myself. Seems sensible, though.
So, what happens when (not if) some of the kids' friends' parents decide to move?
I think I'd really regret turning down the student housing at Columbia, especially since it saved $600 a month in rent.
I think I'd really regret turning down the student housing at Columbia, especially since it saved $600 a month in rent.
34
Yeah, the one wrenching part about moving away from Manhattan (Stuyvesant Town) was leaving a wonderful best friend (let's call him Ethan) for my elder son (then 5) in the apartment next door.
But as it turned out, Stuyvesant Town went through a couple of acquisitions, the rent-stabilization that had made it a middle-class haven for some 65 years was finally defeated, rents rose dramatically, and as a result Ethan and his family moved out a year after we did.
But even if no one had moved, the boys would likely have grown apart. Ethan's parents both worked for the U.N. as translators. The mom was French-Swiss, the dad, German. Ethan spoke three languages fluently by the time he was 4. He went to the U.N.'s private school, where he would become even more internationally oriented. My son (who was 8 months younger), was going to go to an uptown private school starting the next year. We returned a few months after our move for Ethan's birthday party, and found that a small but already uncomfortable chasm had already opened between them.
But as it turned out, Stuyvesant Town went through a couple of acquisitions, the rent-stabilization that had made it a middle-class haven for some 65 years was finally defeated, rents rose dramatically, and as a result Ethan and his family moved out a year after we did.
But even if no one had moved, the boys would likely have grown apart. Ethan's parents both worked for the U.N. as translators. The mom was French-Swiss, the dad, German. Ethan spoke three languages fluently by the time he was 4. He went to the U.N.'s private school, where he would become even more internationally oriented. My son (who was 8 months younger), was going to go to an uptown private school starting the next year. We returned a few months after our move for Ethan's birthday party, and found that a small but already uncomfortable chasm had already opened between them.
Living on top of one another may be fine for these families, who seem to have weighed their options (already bought a place in Clinton Hill?) and decided it is OK for now. Eventually, when the kids get bigger, they will move on to more space as they desire.
But what about the many, many New York families who don't have such options? This article romanticizes the closeness of "community," and implicitly acknowledges that the choice of less space is unusual. For most, it is a necessity, not a choice. And there is nothing romantic about it.
Lastly, the "community" the parents value so much seems to be limited to their kids' friends and those friends' families. The rest of the (actual) community who has to live with all that noise doesn't rate.
But what about the many, many New York families who don't have such options? This article romanticizes the closeness of "community," and implicitly acknowledges that the choice of less space is unusual. For most, it is a necessity, not a choice. And there is nothing romantic about it.
Lastly, the "community" the parents value so much seems to be limited to their kids' friends and those friends' families. The rest of the (actual) community who has to live with all that noise doesn't rate.
78
What a refreshing article. And its nice to see older people, singles, all races making an effort to live in harmony and on a budget.
We belong to the Tiny House Society and here in the west many of us have chosen as singles, married couples, small families to live in places under 300 square feet. http://tinyhousetalk.com
To bad there are so many mean, nasty comments from people attacking the families in this awesome piece. They could learn something positive from the article if they opened their minds.
We belong to the Tiny House Society and here in the west many of us have chosen as singles, married couples, small families to live in places under 300 square feet. http://tinyhousetalk.com
To bad there are so many mean, nasty comments from people attacking the families in this awesome piece. They could learn something positive from the article if they opened their minds.
11
Yeah actually you know something? I'm seeing a lot of comments here that disagree with what you're saying, and obviously have a very different point of view. But I'm really not seeing any "mean, nasty" comments at all. Did you know that just because somebody disagrees with you in and of itself doesn't make them mean and nasty?
Queen bunk beds? No. Just no. Time for better birth control or more space for a kid to think. Stop romanticizing the situation. Too many siblings and not enough room sucks.
39
I know a big tenement building in the Tenderloin District of San Francisco, where the 20+ apartments are all rented by Cambodian refugees and their families. The individual apartment doors were almost always open and the place had all the social structure of a small Southeast Asian village. It was a sharp contrast to the inner city, drug-infused, crime-filled world outside the building.
18
I would like to comment on this article from the point of view of my geriatric mother.
During the cold months children play in the halls of her Manhattan apartment building. My mother likes kids but she also grew up in an apartment in NYC at a time when children wouldn't have dared to stomp, scream, throw balls and run madly up and down the halls of an apartment building. Frankly, it drives her crazy at times, and she would like to see some limits set as to how early and late this indoor playing is allowed.
During the cold months children play in the halls of her Manhattan apartment building. My mother likes kids but she also grew up in an apartment in NYC at a time when children wouldn't have dared to stomp, scream, throw balls and run madly up and down the halls of an apartment building. Frankly, it drives her crazy at times, and she would like to see some limits set as to how early and late this indoor playing is allowed.
166
Yes, there should be limits. But...
When my older son was in high school, he and his friends were playing basketball at midnight in the yard about 60 feet from my bedroom; I could not sleep for the bomp, bomp, bomp...it seemed to bother no one else.
On the other hand, when I was ten, my mother, sister and I lived in a garden apartment complex in Long Beach, NY. There were thee children out of seven buildings (total of 28 apartments, all one bedroom): Wendy, Michael and me. The elderly neighbors complained mightily when we played after school in the large, grassy open area between the buildings. When an upstairs neighbor tore down the stairs one Saturday morning, slamming the front door and breaking the glass, we were immediately blamed.
My point: The love you take is equal to the love you make (or is it the other way around?).
When my older son was in high school, he and his friends were playing basketball at midnight in the yard about 60 feet from my bedroom; I could not sleep for the bomp, bomp, bomp...it seemed to bother no one else.
On the other hand, when I was ten, my mother, sister and I lived in a garden apartment complex in Long Beach, NY. There were thee children out of seven buildings (total of 28 apartments, all one bedroom): Wendy, Michael and me. The elderly neighbors complained mightily when we played after school in the large, grassy open area between the buildings. When an upstairs neighbor tore down the stairs one Saturday morning, slamming the front door and breaking the glass, we were immediately blamed.
My point: The love you take is equal to the love you make (or is it the other way around?).
1
If your mother is comfortable, perhaps she should bring the issue up with the parents and perhaps speak to the children directly. If she feels uncomfortable making the request directly, she should simply raise the issue with the board (if she is in a coop) or the managing agent. Many buildings have rules and they tend to be enforced if someone speaks up.
I grew up like much like this. Funny just came from drinks with a friend that I've known since we were toddlers growing up in the same building some 30 years ago.
I'm not sure I'd make housing decisions based on it though. Kids are very resilient they can make new friends. However being able to count on other adults to watch your kids in a pinch is priceless especially if you don't have family nearby.
I'm not sure I'd make housing decisions based on it though. Kids are very resilient they can make new friends. However being able to count on other adults to watch your kids in a pinch is priceless especially if you don't have family nearby.
31
I think the more important factor is that the parents get along, although all of them are emphasizing the benefit for the children. Children can make friends very easily. Adults cannot make friends so easily, but many have adjusted their needs accordingly. Living in a 500-square-foot one-bedroom with one other adult and three kids is not for everyone.
I think this is wonderful that families are there to support one another. Children will have a richer upbringing and the parents will be better parents for the support system. We often isolate families but it really does take a village to raise children with safety and kindness. BTW, for the commenters here - If you don't want kids as neighbors, well too bad. Get over it now. Just because you choose not to have them, doesn't mean anyone else needs to hide their children from the world so stop the endless whining in the Times comments sections. Please. Just stop being so jaded, hardened and just plain nasty. I don't think children should be screaming at all hours but children playing during the day is a normal part of life on this planet. Deciding not to have children is a right, and should be respected, but can't we just have a little love for the tiny neighbors too? They could actually enrich your lives if you gave them a chance.
26
How come the photographs, as lovely as are of the children, show clearly what the story is about -- an incredibly small living quarters?
6
I feel sorry for the others in the building. Who are these selfish people to think that the hallways belong to them and their kids??
152
I'd happily tolerate the noise of children. Everyone was a kid once.
7
That was my first reaction too, on reading that line. I am very fond of small children but do not have any of my own. I live (and work from home) in a condo with several families with small children on my floor. It is a source of unending frustration that the hallway doubles as a communal playground.
6
Not everyone has a problem with kids. Even some of us single people actually love having them around, playing in the building, making noise and making us smile. You do know what a smile is, don't you?
3
$2100 for 500 square feet?!! Major league rip off, even for NYC. Our family of 4 pays little more for more than 2x the square footage, spectacular community and half the land in this end of Manhattan is gorgeous parkland. So, we take our kids out to one of the MANY parks nearby. No need to drive our neighbors crazy. Besides, kids are people too. No need to live like tenement housing of old if you don't need to *ahem, I'm looking at you, ridiculous rent!*
67
Apartments are increasingly the only option for some families now that home prices have been manipulated up for the sake of protecting some other people's house prices. We didn't choose these circumstances, but we too are about to have a second child in our one bdroom rental in SF. We cannot pony up the money to bid on a house against rich chinese nationals and tech wealth and wealthy boomers looking for second homes. So we must stay and make due with the four of us. And we make the most of it...including letting our 2 yr old use her trike in the hallway. Cities are about mixed generation amd income living-- at least they used to be and are in other countries. Americans are now being forced to choose density too...if you want to rail against it, rail against the economic policy decisions that are forcing young families into cramped quarters while there are perfectly good spacious flats and houses being scooped up nearby at out-of-reach prices by empty nesters as second homes and absentee foreign nationals. Don't rail against the young families just trying to cling to some sense of quality of life for themselves and their kids.
53
Many of us need to to get used to living in smaller spaces, especially if we want to live in major metropolitan areas, anywhere. This is a given.
Ask Families in Hong Kong or Tokyo how many square feet/ square meters they need to live in.
You might be surprised.
Ask Families in Hong Kong or Tokyo how many square feet/ square meters they need to live in.
You might be surprised.
I guess San Francisco is the only place to live in California.
Playing in the hallway? Glad I live in a coop bldg where the House Rules states that's not permitted. Do these parents have any common sense in the fact that not everyone has kids, even folks with kids can't stand the noise of other people's kids.
154
If they can't play in the hallways, where can they play? Of course children screeching is not my favorite sound. News flash: old people nagging isn't children's favorite sound, either. They are human beings.
Everyone was once a child. Where did you play?
Our children play in the streets, in the parks, and occasionally encounter adults. If the adults can't deal with so much as a seven year old, I don't really know how they are navigating the rest of their lives. And I don't even like kids! This country is not a retirement home. People of all ages deserve to live full lives here!
Everyone was once a child. Where did you play?
Our children play in the streets, in the parks, and occasionally encounter adults. If the adults can't deal with so much as a seven year old, I don't really know how they are navigating the rest of their lives. And I don't even like kids! This country is not a retirement home. People of all ages deserve to live full lives here!
You ask where did I play? Outside.
So what? Nothing else to write about? Little kids playing with other kids who live in the same apartment building? It is New York City isn't it? The decision to move to larger quarters will come later when the children reach adolescence.
25
This is the type of comment I have no tolerance for. You clearly would make a poor editor, as you yourself were interested enough not only to read the article but comment on it too. And nobody else, on whichever side of the issue they stand, is getting fake-outraged and the article being written. Perhaps you are just smarter than the editors and all the rest of us. You do know that this is the real estate section, and that you can find more serious and important issues in the main sections, right?
Yes - Times certainly have changed...
Back in the mid-fifties - when I was that age and lived in a small apartment in the Bronx with my parents and sister - we roamed the local streets playing by ourselves without any need for constant adult supervision ( think "The Little Rascals") --
At the age of six or seven - I would simply say to my mother..."I'm going out to play with Steve and Billy" (who also lived in the same building) -- to which she would reply - "Okay, just be home in time for dinner." (Or "Before dark" if it was summer.
And that was it --
We played in the city park across the street - or the vacant lot next door...pushing our imaginations to the limit.
Occasionally our mothers would give us fifty cents to buy a top or a yo-yo...or we'd scoot around on our old klunky rollerskates -- and we also played lots of games with our precious toy cap guns...
I don't recall the clothes we wore (except maybe sneakers) -- but it was nothing like outfits those kids are wearing in the pictures -
One thing's for sure - we did not play or mingle in the hallways of our apartment building --
Then - by the mid-seventies, when I was in college in Manhattan - I shared a six-room railroad flat with two roommates...much like the one in the article...on 102nd Street and Amsterdam Avenue --
The total rent was $280 a month -
I left that neighborhood many years ago -- and every time I walk around there, I'm reminded of how much I don't miss it at all...
Back in the mid-fifties - when I was that age and lived in a small apartment in the Bronx with my parents and sister - we roamed the local streets playing by ourselves without any need for constant adult supervision ( think "The Little Rascals") --
At the age of six or seven - I would simply say to my mother..."I'm going out to play with Steve and Billy" (who also lived in the same building) -- to which she would reply - "Okay, just be home in time for dinner." (Or "Before dark" if it was summer.
And that was it --
We played in the city park across the street - or the vacant lot next door...pushing our imaginations to the limit.
Occasionally our mothers would give us fifty cents to buy a top or a yo-yo...or we'd scoot around on our old klunky rollerskates -- and we also played lots of games with our precious toy cap guns...
I don't recall the clothes we wore (except maybe sneakers) -- but it was nothing like outfits those kids are wearing in the pictures -
One thing's for sure - we did not play or mingle in the hallways of our apartment building --
Then - by the mid-seventies, when I was in college in Manhattan - I shared a six-room railroad flat with two roommates...much like the one in the article...on 102nd Street and Amsterdam Avenue --
The total rent was $280 a month -
I left that neighborhood many years ago -- and every time I walk around there, I'm reminded of how much I don't miss it at all...
47
My childhood, too, was a lot of roaming. Wading in creeks, fish in jars, watching tadpoles mature, climbing trees, bikes, skates.......not playing inside. Sounds sad to me, but I do understand the bonds of the children and their families. I am just sadden what child's play has become.
And your parents didn't stay in their small Bronx apartment because they did not want to tear you away from the friendships you developed, they stayed because that's all they could afford.
1
@Joseph -
Actually - my parents did tear me away from my friendships with Steve and Billy...when they decided to move us into a house in the suburbs so we could have a better life than roaming the streets of the Bronx...
At first is was difficult - because I did miss my friends - but eventually made new ones...some of whom I am still close with today -
And -
Many years later I was able to track down my little friend Stevie - who had moved to the west coast - and we had a wonderful reunion -- but that's another story...
And thanks for the snarky personal insults regarding my parents' living situation and finances (something which you know nothing about) -- they add to the conversation -
Actually - my parents did tear me away from my friendships with Steve and Billy...when they decided to move us into a house in the suburbs so we could have a better life than roaming the streets of the Bronx...
At first is was difficult - because I did miss my friends - but eventually made new ones...some of whom I am still close with today -
And -
Many years later I was able to track down my little friend Stevie - who had moved to the west coast - and we had a wonderful reunion -- but that's another story...
And thanks for the snarky personal insults regarding my parents' living situation and finances (something which you know nothing about) -- they add to the conversation -
2
It does sound like fun, but as a mother of four who are now teens and older, I know the friendships can go south very quickly. We lived in an idyllic cul-de-sac where the 20 or so kids ran all over. It was great until one girl started stealing and lying, an older sibling of another introduced the little kids to pot, and a third kid developed mental health issues that made him abusive. Parents divorce; people move. Suddenly, we couldn't get away fast enough. And the dynamics really change in middle school and high school. Former childhood best friends join different crowds and just stop speaking to each other, and there's very little a parent can do about it. While I have remained quite friendly with the other parents, I am no longer as close as I once was - it was just too hard on my family to continue to enforce the children's friendships. I found out many years later that my children had very good reasons for no longer hanging out - they were just unprepared at the time to be able to tell me everything. Good luck, but be prepared for just about anything when you've got kids!
151
Yep. I was thinking this and shaking my head. One day little Frederique will announce that her BFF Ruby is "totally weird" and then the adult relationships often quickly and painfully go south…I wasn't especially friendly with most of my son's friend's parents, so when some of these relationships ended quickly I was awfully glad. Just the other day (he's 22 now) my son told me X, Y and Z were already smoking weed by the end of 6th grade. No wonder he wanted nothing to do with them and quit the soccer team he'd been with forever! Glad I wasn't so enmeshed that I resisted pulling away for my own needs.
20
Other than the sel-indulgent nerve of allowing the children to run loose and scooter down the hallways with no regard to the neighbors who want to have peace, it is amazing that the Ferguson family was able to purchase an entire brownstone and not move into it. Are they renting it all out? Nice to have that kind of money.
113
A strong family unit is such a high predictor of future success in life. I commend these parents for taking an interest in their children and not just letting the government do it. Sounds like great buildings to live in
12
Letting the government do what? OK, I get from your comments that you've shoehorned your pet peeve into this but you really do win the "Non Sequitur of the Moment Award."
The government doesn't raise anyone's children. That's a right-wing myth.
The government doesn't raise anyone's children. That's a right-wing myth.
I bet their neighbors don't find it so charming that children are playing in the hallways. Don't most buildings have rules against that?
Also, I guess that family with the queen bunk beds has decided NO MORE KIDS!
Also, I guess that family with the queen bunk beds has decided NO MORE KIDS!
93
all I keep thinking is who are the adults here? Who is cutting those grapes in half before the kid chokes? Who is going to fall off the loft bed jungle gym first? Do you remember your friends from 3 years old? I don't.
44
I am still in touch with my first friend. We met at her fifth birthday party, when I was not yet four. That was nearly 76 years ago.
1
I was wondering about those grapes also! And that mom in the grapes picture looks very stressed out, distracted and not very happy. There is no way I could live under those conditions.
1
You're helicoptering. Grapes and bunkbeds existed when you and I were kids, and yet here we are still today, alive and well. Your kid is not going to choke on a grape and fall off the top bunk and die and even if he does, which he won't, then just make/adopt another one.
Reminds me of my time growing up in a small apartment. I shared a bed with my mother until someone gave us another bed when I was 13. My brother slept on a daybed in the living room.
That apartment and its hallways were our playground and entire world while we were young. It was a small tight knit community of all ages. Very cozy and familiar. On Christmas we would have all our Jewish neighbors in for breakfast. I babysat for infants when I was 11, with my mother upstairs in case I needed help.
Now I have more bedrooms and bathrooms. I barely see my neighbors. Some I've never met. A very different way of living. This sounds very nice to me.
That apartment and its hallways were our playground and entire world while we were young. It was a small tight knit community of all ages. Very cozy and familiar. On Christmas we would have all our Jewish neighbors in for breakfast. I babysat for infants when I was 11, with my mother upstairs in case I needed help.
Now I have more bedrooms and bathrooms. I barely see my neighbors. Some I've never met. A very different way of living. This sounds very nice to me.
33
I should add that we were never allowed to make a lot of noise in the hallways. At least not for long. We learned to race through swinging hallway doors like lightening bolts and zip down stairs while suppressing our shrieks until we were outside.
41
AACNY: it does sound nice...for children. What about your mom, though? Was she happy sleeping in the same bed as her kids? Where was your dad?
A single mom and 2 kids can manage in a one bedroom. But a married couple? And I believe one family here has five or more members. Yeesh!
A single mom and 2 kids can manage in a one bedroom. But a married couple? And I believe one family here has five or more members. Yeesh!
4
Of course, given your comments here, you have turned into a RWNJ, so....
So sick of these parents and hate the names.. BRooklyn has become such an annoying class of entitled people. When I was a kid it was tough NYers.. Who actually worked for a living and would correct their Children when wrong and paid for babysitters event bough money was tight.
92
[[ BRooklyn has become such an annoying class of entitled people.]]
Funny how that works. One minute you're on the inside looking out, the next you;re on the outside looking in.
Funny how that works. One minute you're on the inside looking out, the next you;re on the outside looking in.
Hate the names? hmmm! hate solves nothing
1
Just another article to make people around the country think New Yorkers are nuts. Don't small children pretty much play with whatever other kid is around?
133
Of course children play with whatever other kids are around but in suburbia you don't see other kids. They are either locked "safely" in their single family home or they are off on playdates or important activities - their soccer, their dance, their piano lessons, and so forth.
4
Absolutely not! Kids are people with preferences just like adults. Do you want to socialize with everyone you meet? Of course not. Some people you click with, some you don't whether you're 4 or 40.
1
True! Few of my parents' friends had kids my age growing up. And of those who did, I HATED every last one. We did not click at all, personality-wise. They were bullies (I felt) and we had zero in common. It sucked.
Having community is so important. I love these parents and would make the same choice. I by choice, live in a communal, multi-family house and I adore the kid herds and family meals. It is the joy of life.
28
When the bulk of your income is inherited wealth, you have the privilege of not having to relocate for a well-paying job or to seek new opportunities when your current situation changes because of mergers, downsizing, offshoring or outsourcing of positions. The rest have to work for a living and that often means going where the jobs are and taking the children with you.
73
How incredibly assuming and judgmental!
Where do you get that these people don't have to work for a living?
Sounds like you're not so happy in Corrales, Anon.
Where do you get that these people don't have to work for a living?
Sounds like you're not so happy in Corrales, Anon.
13
The wife in the 500 sq feet is a student.
2
I'm retired and my kids are grown and so I am perfectly happy. Thanks!
1
Hello...doesn't anyone see how wrong this is....sure it looks great in photos and retrospect of 1950's. In the 50s if you fell down the stairs your mother punished you...speed ahead to 2015 and your lawyer sues the landlord. Legally these tenants who allow their children to "play" in the halls are breaching their leases. They are renting apt "3b"...not "3b" and all the common areas. In a multiple family building this against the building code, it is against the landlords insurance liability and it goes way beyond any kind of common sense. Eating organic food in the halls off the filthy floors. I love the concept of kids playing with other kids in the building. Sharing meals sounds delightful. But confine it to the rented space not the halls. The halls are passage ways for all tenants. Who and where the hell is the landlord?
182
Are you sure tenants are not also renting the common areas? It seems to me that each tenant has an equal tenancy interest in those common areas but some commenters feel that the common areas should be used ONLY the way THEY deem fit - apparently for ingress and egress but not for playing. No wonder books like "Bowling Alone" are being written.
4
Seriously, you think good mothers in the 50's punished their kids for falling down the stairs. Were you even around in the 50's? And, if everyone who lives on the floor is fine with kids playing in the hall, why are you so darn uptight about it. How does this hurt you?
If you count the hallways and lobbies and common areas where these kids appear to be playing -- they are not 500 square foot apartments, but more like 2000 square feet of space, 1500 of which they "appropriated" from other tenants.
10
And right below this article are others that tout $15 million apartments. No wonder families who want to stay in NY are stuck in 500 sq ft apartments, kids or no kids!
How long are New Yorkers going to allow their city to be taken over by greed?
How many $10-million pieds a terre remain empty most of the year, awaiting their overseas robber baron owners, while all kinds of families--not just the smug and comfy upper-middle-class white ones pictured here--struggle in tiny ones? Why are'affordable housing' dirty words?
It's not just the mayors who allow this. It's the community boards, the local and state representatives, and us. Shame on us all.
How long are New Yorkers going to allow their city to be taken over by greed?
How many $10-million pieds a terre remain empty most of the year, awaiting their overseas robber baron owners, while all kinds of families--not just the smug and comfy upper-middle-class white ones pictured here--struggle in tiny ones? Why are'affordable housing' dirty words?
It's not just the mayors who allow this. It's the community boards, the local and state representatives, and us. Shame on us all.
98
Why are affordable housing dirty words? They're not. Lots of affordable housing. The country is 3000 miles across. Ever hear of supply and demand?????
No one has a god give right to live in NY especially those who can't afford to. Affordable housing becomes dirty words when it mean the taxpayers and landlords subsidizing people who want to live where they can't afford.
No one has a god give right to live in NY especially those who can't afford to. Affordable housing becomes dirty words when it mean the taxpayers and landlords subsidizing people who want to live where they can't afford.
Who who want to live where other people's children are playing in the hall? Most buildings have rules -- this behavior sets a poor example for children.
161
You forgot to say "and you kids get off my lawn!" (not that a New York effete coastal would know what a "lawn" is).
1
Are you kidding me? and what about the other residents of the building? Maybe someone lives there who is not obsessed with children and actually has interests other than diapers, and would actually like to read a book (gasp!) in the quiet of their apartment. Of course they cannot, because now the NY Times has popularized the idea of squeezing four kids into a one bedroom apartment because the hallway is a perfect playground for them!
244
I am often amazed at the "it's all about me and my kids" attitude of parents these days. I wonder whether any of these parents of hall-playing children would complain about a neighbor's dog barking too much, or music played too loud and often, or the sounds of ongoing renovations. One person's white noise is another's torture.
5
May be, may be not. You are assuming facts not in evidence.
Wow. How incredibly inconsiderate it is of these parents to extend their apartments into the hallways and use public areas as a playground. Way to be considerate of your neighbors.
231
How do you know if any neighbor is childless or if anyone is complaining? Stop the veiled jealousy couched in consideration.
It's surprising how many commenters were never children themselves.
As for these parents, bravo! It's not just the bonds created between your children that you're preserving, it's also the irreplaceable bonds between parents in their early parenting years. The days of babies and little kids are like no other, and the experiences you're sharing now will never happen again. I applaud your decision, and if I was in your building, I would hear music in the children's noise.
As for these parents, bravo! It's not just the bonds created between your children that you're preserving, it's also the irreplaceable bonds between parents in their early parenting years. The days of babies and little kids are like no other, and the experiences you're sharing now will never happen again. I applaud your decision, and if I was in your building, I would hear music in the children's noise.
62
You've always been a free spirit.
1
There are no bonds. The chance of their three kids staying in touch with the other kids into adulthood are slim at best.
9
You live in San Diego, you probably have plenty of space where you can dream up fantasies about "music in the children's noise".
6
No mention of the people without children who have to deal with this. No focus on non-white families. No mention of people who would love to move to similar larger spaces but cannot afford it. Another winner from the Times Real Estate section.
P.S. I am still boggled by the family of SIX in the 500 sq ft apartment. NO. Just NO.
P.S. I am still boggled by the family of SIX in the 500 sq ft apartment. NO. Just NO.
202
I agree with you on many points, but there are non-White people featured! Or do you equate class with race?
14
I saw a couple pics of black kids. A story isn't valid if it only has white families?
14
I assumed, based on no evidence really except his facial features, that cute little Levi was adopted from Ethiopia or Eritrea. Why? Because this story seemed to be so relentlessly white.
6
When my husband and I brought our children from Manhattan to this lovely suburb over 30 years ago, people told us that we must feel we had arrived in Paradise. I smiled and held my tongue; I never told them how much I missed the intense community feeling I had enjoyed, just south of Columbia University. I'm happy here now, but it took a while.
43
I live near Columbia University with 3 young boys. While we are somewhat tight for space, the community feeling and resources around us are amazing! I will miss them immensely if we ever have to move.
8
you will discover that other places have community feeling and amazing resources too! With other great things you don't have now!
3
After living in NYC for 14 years, I recently relocated to Sacramento, CA. Articles like this make me really glad I did. I got so tired of asking people like those in this article to please curtail the noise. I just felt like I couldn't even have peace in my own apartment. All I could hear was clomping above me (kids running around, etc) and noise coming from the hallway. I hope the people in this article are being considerate and taking into consideration ALL of their neighbors, not just the ones with kids.
I am finding there is just as much community out here in Sacramento and there is a lot more space. I don't deal with these situations anymore which are essentially caused by high population density - too many people in too small of a space. I'm sure it's great for those profiled, but what about everyone else?
I am finding there is just as much community out here in Sacramento and there is a lot more space. I don't deal with these situations anymore which are essentially caused by high population density - too many people in too small of a space. I'm sure it's great for those profiled, but what about everyone else?
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so true- I lived in Chelsea NYC for 35 years; a job layoffforced me to leave and go to a new job elsewhere. As a New Yorker I couldn't conceive of life anywhere else. 6 years later, I would never go back.
I have a much cheaper life now; there are trees outside my window as opposed to Eighth Ave dirt noise and too many people. But you can't tell a New Yorker this; they can only learn it if they are forced to leave. Then they will see that life goes on very well- and it CAN be much better.
I have a much cheaper life now; there are trees outside my window as opposed to Eighth Ave dirt noise and too many people. But you can't tell a New Yorker this; they can only learn it if they are forced to leave. Then they will see that life goes on very well- and it CAN be much better.
3
@ Anna - Leaving NYC was hard but it was the best thing for me. I kept trying to make it work when it had long stopped working for me. Situations like this article presents were going to keep happening and it frustrated me that I had no peace and quiet in my living situation. It affected me greatly. Relocating has been challening, but I do have peace in my living environment at about half the cost of NYC. Like yourself, I have a much cheaper life now. All the best to you.
What the article doesn't mention is how annoying it is to people without children, especially those who work at home. The constant noise is a nightmare! I complained repeatedly to the neighbors whose children made a racket in the hallway in my Harlem apartment building before I moved. It was especially difficult if I were having a conference call or meeting. There should be a designated play area...I grew up in Manhattan and we had to stay in our apartments or go out on the street to play!
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Stop being cheap and rent an office where you should be doing business. Residential is residential. Office space is office space. You are the one who is out of line.
4
Dear effete coastal,
You forgot to say "and you kids get off my lawn!" (not that a New York effete coastal would know what a "lawn" is).
You forgot to say "and you kids get off my lawn!" (not that a New York effete coastal would know what a "lawn" is).
1
seriously, sk? You have no understanding of the costs of rent in NYC, both commercial and residential.
YOU are the one who's out of line!
YOU are the one who's out of line!
5
?Do the kids play "Hall Way Olympics"?
Number of steps that they can jump up, jump down.
Fastest up a stair case, fastest up two stair cases.
In the 50' growing up in apartment in Brooklyn was great.
Number of steps that they can jump up, jump down.
Fastest up a stair case, fastest up two stair cases.
In the 50' growing up in apartment in Brooklyn was great.
13
This all sounds well and good but...they all just seem typical of that certain type of well-off parents who have kids with 'artisinal' names and mini-me 'cool' outfits, who then expect the rest of the (childless) world to cater to them and their kids' every whim. What perfect politically-correct worlds they likely live in.
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Some of these NYT articles read like parodies. The happy barefoot kids running around the apartment, etc.
11
And "play" with their computers. The picture of the two tots with their computers is indicative of play today.
6
It is refreshing to see an article on successful people for a change, the NYT is usually just all sad sack stories that just need more money from some outside source.
1
They only thing interesting about this article are the photos. Well done photographer! Other than that, I couldn't imagine living the way they do. I feel sorry for the childless person living in the building where the common areas have been turned into a playground.
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I live in a smaller Manhattan apartment building - 4 apartments to a floor.
Several floors in our building are fortunate enough to have several compatible children, and they have always taken over the hallways.
I have always found this to be delightful.
My husband and I don't have children, and I work from home.
If the screaming gets a little loud, I stick my head out the door and they quiet down, but I love that the kids have this "back yard" to congregate.
Several floors in our building are fortunate enough to have several compatible children, and they have always taken over the hallways.
I have always found this to be delightful.
My husband and I don't have children, and I work from home.
If the screaming gets a little loud, I stick my head out the door and they quiet down, but I love that the kids have this "back yard" to congregate.
8
I'm with you. If you get so old and stiff in the head and heart that you cannot look at or 'tolerate' children then that is a great loss. I enjoy seeing kids, hearing them play and my instincts kick in when I hear one cry.
At 67 I enjoy seeing the teenagers in my neighbourhood. I remember when I was 14 and 16. I am invisible to them of course, but they aren't to me. I like seeing them trying out the adult voices they are aspiring to, and the childish ones that they haven't left behind.
A life lived without looking to the future looks pretty bleak to me.
At 67 I enjoy seeing the teenagers in my neighbourhood. I remember when I was 14 and 16. I am invisible to them of course, but they aren't to me. I like seeing them trying out the adult voices they are aspiring to, and the childish ones that they haven't left behind.
A life lived without looking to the future looks pretty bleak to me.
1
And what about the childless residents of these multi-unit buildings who are forced to share their public hall areas with scooter riding, screaming children? Public spaces are for everyone, not just for the children. The sense of entitlement of some parents, when they are asked to limit the children's activity in the halls, is astounding. Trust me, I know first hand.
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This childfree person wouldn't last a day in that building.
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Actually that's just too bad. All the tenants pay rent so they all have a right to use common areas.
12
Very true and sick of crying babies in fancy restaurants. get a BABYSITTER!!! Beyond annoying
21
I couldn't imagine it...
25
As a parent of 2 young ones, I couldn't possibly see sacrificing space, privacy, and the comforts it affords due to... children's friendships? I find it odd, and slightly troubling. These are the same people whose children run their lives, and fail to consider themselves and their own happiness (ie. sanity). They're also terrified to disappointment their children, at all costs, and fail to realize that disappointment is part of daily life. Sure, little Johnny might be upset moving away from little Billy, but he'll get over it...and will even learn from the experience.
Kids are kids. They're resilient, they adapt. They fall down, and get up ..and while close friendships can certainly be had at age 5, with kids, that same friendship could deteriorate quickly.
Kids are kids. They're resilient, they adapt. They fall down, and get up ..and while close friendships can certainly be had at age 5, with kids, that same friendship could deteriorate quickly.
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You missed the point - yes it's weird, but the parents were better friends with each other than the kids were. THey seem weird (homeschooling?) so it's no surprise that their living arrangements reflect that.
10
What you said. And also, the greatest gift you can give your children is not the transient fun of some friends who live close by (kid's friendships flux and change a lot in a few short years) but strong married parents who have a committed relationship.
And I can't imagine anything as soul-destroying as a marriage lived out in queen-size bunk beds, with your children both in your bed and above your head....when is this couple intimate? How the heck did they conceive children 2 and 3? by turkey baster and test tube?
Adults have lives too -- need their sleep -- need privacy and intimacy. ANY parent who sacrifices such basic things for their kids is not giving the kids as much of a "gift" as they think.....but instead, exhausted demoralized parents whose marriage will be frayed and trampled on.
And I can't imagine anything as soul-destroying as a marriage lived out in queen-size bunk beds, with your children both in your bed and above your head....when is this couple intimate? How the heck did they conceive children 2 and 3? by turkey baster and test tube?
Adults have lives too -- need their sleep -- need privacy and intimacy. ANY parent who sacrifices such basic things for their kids is not giving the kids as much of a "gift" as they think.....but instead, exhausted demoralized parents whose marriage will be frayed and trampled on.
32
Why do they have 5 children?
9
I wonder what the non-parent residents of the buildings feel about children running and playing in the corridors all the time.
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I lived in one such building some time back as part of a kidfree couple. The kids were amazing and interacting with them I felt that yes, I did understand them (to some extent) and could see myself as a father. The parents were ecstatic that their kids loved my zucchini with dill weed dish and, at times, I was able to do some babysitting for an hour or so.
20
Playing by the elevator, no less. What could go wrong?
86
I wonder how the parents of young children feel about residents who have loud parties or TVs on late at night. I'm sure that never happens. Or, you know, we are talking about a city of 8 million. Sirens, honking taxis, etc. Maybe not the best place to live if you value silence? Everyone was a kid once. You were loud and played too.
17
This is exactly how I grew up-small apartment, my friend in similar small apartments, and all of us, always together, no need to set up play dates, or have parents drive us around, just come to the yard and see who is around. My kids are growing in a nice, safe suburb, luckily, we have friends on the block, but it's still not the same, and when I tell them how I grew up , they are envious of the cool childhood I had-and this was in the late 70's, early 80's in the Soviet Union of all places. Of course, I realize, that mainly, I was spared the hardship that was part of a daily life in that country, and my parents protected me from the realities of life, and I would never want my kids to grow up there, but boy, the stories of my childhood could fill a book.
54
My kids shared these kinds of relationships growing up in 1990s Bensonhurst, Brooklyn, and through the Children's Chorus of the Metropolitan Opera and the School of American Ballet in Manhattan. I'm glad to say that as adults their friendships (and mine with the kids and parents) have remained solid, even though we all live far apart now. We communicate through Facebook and see each other at weddings -- we truly did become family. It's great these parents recognize the value of community for themselves and their kids.
30
Beautiful photos of the kids.
39