My coop is totally corrupt. They have cheated, lied, participated in abuse of power, harressment, conflict of interest and the list goes on. My attorney wants a minimum of 25K to begin a proceeding. Where in NYC city /state should I file a beginning complaint without involving an attorney ?
3
Well now I have heard everything. Recourse from children having fun outside playing in a designated playground??? What is the alternative? Send them out on the streets? Sit them in front of a TV? Kids need fresh air and play time to grow into normal adults. I suggest you rethink your complaint. I don't think you could poll a million people asking for top ten annoying noises and have anyone offer laughing children! Wow.
5
Please reread the letter - there is a public playground a block away. It's unfair to subject the occupants of the apartments overlooking the infill play area to the noise of many children screeching in a small area, which probably reverberates on the walls. If a playground was necessary, ALL the occupants/owners should have voted on the issue before it was built. They did not choose to purchase units overlooking a playground; it was foisted on them afterward.
1
Live and let live. How'r you gonna stop 'em?
Just kids. Havin' fun.
Pick the battles you can win.
Just kids. Havin' fun.
Pick the battles you can win.
1
A daycare moved in catty-corner to our backyard and I thought the sound of the kids playing was going to be an issue for me, but turns out it's a lovely kind of noise.
6
To all who seem to believe that children vocalizing on a playground is new, take a moment to watch the trailer or the beginning of the film, "7 Up" which was filmed in 1964 with children from a variety of backgrounds. You will find, in the playground scenes, behaviour identical to that on a contemporary playground, including plenty of "screaming". It is not children who have changed, it is you.
11
I think the columnists' take on the playground is totally off. If I were one of the condo owners, I would get together with fellow owners to demand the playground be dismantled.
A key fact noted is that there's a public park a block away! So this additional on-site playground is totally unnecessary as well as a nuisance.
And no, children do NOT have to scream to enjoy playtime! There are a few public playgrounds in my neighborhood where the screaming is ear-shattering and constant - while parents and (mostly) nannies ignore the kids to gossip & bury their noses in their phones.
By contrast, the local faith-based schools' kids - Catholic, Jewish, and others - whether in a yard or in the street - seem to be able to play even boisterously with just a normal level of "joyful noise" - withOUT the screaming.
The difference is clearly in the discipline and behavior expected by the faith-based schools and their students' parents - versus the lax-to-no discipline child-rearing of too many others.
We see it everywhere - not only the screaming, but totally rude, wild behavior - in stores, restaurants, buses. Who needs it right outside their windows & ruining the enjoyment of balconies they paid for?
A key fact noted is that there's a public park a block away! So this additional on-site playground is totally unnecessary as well as a nuisance.
And no, children do NOT have to scream to enjoy playtime! There are a few public playgrounds in my neighborhood where the screaming is ear-shattering and constant - while parents and (mostly) nannies ignore the kids to gossip & bury their noses in their phones.
By contrast, the local faith-based schools' kids - Catholic, Jewish, and others - whether in a yard or in the street - seem to be able to play even boisterously with just a normal level of "joyful noise" - withOUT the screaming.
The difference is clearly in the discipline and behavior expected by the faith-based schools and their students' parents - versus the lax-to-no discipline child-rearing of too many others.
We see it everywhere - not only the screaming, but totally rude, wild behavior - in stores, restaurants, buses. Who needs it right outside their windows & ruining the enjoyment of balconies they paid for?
24
It's amazing that you're able to identify the "faith-based school kids" wherever they are!
17
Not "wherever they are," but certainly when they're right outside their schools or in their schoolyards. And of course, when they're wearing their school uniforms or other distinctive dress or emblems.
There are several such schools in my neighborhood - where I've lived most of my life - so I've had ample opportunity to note the difference in behavior.
My point, though, was that constant shrieking is not an inevitable, "normal" part of children's behavior.
There are several such schools in my neighborhood - where I've lived most of my life - so I've had ample opportunity to note the difference in behavior.
My point, though, was that constant shrieking is not an inevitable, "normal" part of children's behavior.
11
Comes down to who was there first, doesn't it? If the playground was there first, YOU moved nextdoor. You did it voluntarily. You lose.
1
If one wears hearing aids, as I do, which are programmed to amplify higher tones (to compensate for my hearing loss in higher ranges) the noise produced by screaming children is torture. There is no other word for it. It is torture and I can't rip the aids from my ears fast enough. In restaurants, stores, elevators, waiting rooms and yes, even through distant windows. It is uncomfortable to be in the bright sun without sunglasses, no? Audible overload is just as real. As part of teaching their children manners, parents need to teach them to curb their vocalization. Why not? Do children NEED to scream? I think not.
23
Children should not scream in restaurants or shops and should be encouraged to develop an inside voice. Playgrounds, on the other hand, are a perfectly acceptable place to run, climb, play and vocalize whether you approve or not.
31
Anon - Clearly in Corrales, NM it's hard to appreciate the problems of NYC apartment residents, Maybe Socanne in muddied the waters being from Tucson about "restaurants, stores, elevators, waiting rooms", but your bringing it back to playgrounds seems to have missed that the original article's premise was a playground as part of a condo under balconies. In Manhattan that indicates very close proximity - feet rather than yards - rather than a playground you might have in Corrales down the block out of immediate earshot. Big difference. And if you were in Mr. Murray Hill's shoes you would re-think your notions of appropriate noise in immediate proximity of your home within a matter of hours.
5
@m
I went to school in New York and spent much of my working adult life in Chicago. I am well aware of city life and I also understand being old.
I went to school in New York and spent much of my working adult life in Chicago. I am well aware of city life and I also understand being old.
6
I wonder if consistently noisy kids aren't a product of the modern laissez-faire method of childrearing.
When I was a toddler and began to jump about, my mother would shush me and say, "Janet will get annoyed." Janet was our neighbor downstairs. And I modified my behavior.
When I was older and began to play in the street, we all were told we weren't allowed to scream. And we didn't. But we did play, and energetically at that.
Screaming is not something children have to do. But it is something that parents who are too lazy to control their children have decided is natural. That, along with other rude behavior in restaurants and other public places.
When I was a toddler and began to jump about, my mother would shush me and say, "Janet will get annoyed." Janet was our neighbor downstairs. And I modified my behavior.
When I was older and began to play in the street, we all were told we weren't allowed to scream. And we didn't. But we did play, and energetically at that.
Screaming is not something children have to do. But it is something that parents who are too lazy to control their children have decided is natural. That, along with other rude behavior in restaurants and other public places.
40
Agree 100%!
I'm one who enjoys the normal joyful noise of children playing. But the constant high-pitched screaming is a more recent phenomenon - which like you, I ascribe to parents who seem to believe that children should have no restraint, discipline, or consideration for others whatsoever.
I'm one who enjoys the normal joyful noise of children playing. But the constant high-pitched screaming is a more recent phenomenon - which like you, I ascribe to parents who seem to believe that children should have no restraint, discipline, or consideration for others whatsoever.
27
What grumpy people, you must have had very dour childhoods. You complain that kids spend too much time online or their phones, these kids are doing something. I'm old and generally a curmudgeon now but always get a smile when I hear children playing.
35
I'm old and childless, but my husband and I are Auntie and Uncle to many. I love the "screaming." It generally means the children are happy.
10
You must have mellow children living near you. That's lovely -- and lucky.
As someone who's had many decades of exposure to school lunchrooms, I can tell you that the increasingly high-pitched screams of the last decade correspond to other types of poor behavior. Not all children scream, of course; they're the ones who have normal impulse control, no doubt instilled in them by loving, responsible parents.
As someone who's had many decades of exposure to school lunchrooms, I can tell you that the increasingly high-pitched screams of the last decade correspond to other types of poor behavior. Not all children scream, of course; they're the ones who have normal impulse control, no doubt instilled in them by loving, responsible parents.
9
Again, Ted, constant screaming in a confined area under your balcony. Murray Hill is not Sarasota.
9
The minutes of a co-op annual meeting would not mention much in the way of financial details as the business transacted is usually just the election of directors and approval of the minutes from the previous meeting. The minutes of board meeting, however, would be more revealing. Every co-op I have encountered distributes the annual financial report prior to or at the annual meeting so shareholders can refer to it as the accountant explains the particulars. There is often an undercurrent of suspicion in a co-op that money is being stolen or misused and it behooves boards to be as open as possible.
No one likes increases in monthly charges and board members have to pay them as well. Many major items of expense are beyond control such as taxes, insurance, facade repairs, etc. An alternative to raising the charges is to not distribute the co-op abatement (or have an assessment equal to it). However, the rules are more restrictive now and some tenants may not qualify for it as in the past. The STAR abatement must be distributed by July 1st of each year.
I live across the street from a school that has a yard and playground behind it. I can hear the children at times, but the worst thing is a small keyboard device that produces a few xylophone tones. When my windows are open, the tune being belted out can sound like my doorbell and I have made unnecessary trips to my door. Playgrounds can be rather expensive propositions and a liability concern.
No one likes increases in monthly charges and board members have to pay them as well. Many major items of expense are beyond control such as taxes, insurance, facade repairs, etc. An alternative to raising the charges is to not distribute the co-op abatement (or have an assessment equal to it). However, the rules are more restrictive now and some tenants may not qualify for it as in the past. The STAR abatement must be distributed by July 1st of each year.
I live across the street from a school that has a yard and playground behind it. I can hear the children at times, but the worst thing is a small keyboard device that produces a few xylophone tones. When my windows are open, the tune being belted out can sound like my doorbell and I have made unnecessary trips to my door. Playgrounds can be rather expensive propositions and a liability concern.
1
Re: "Silent Board" - the writer says the board kept the real estate tax rebate.
To the best of my knowledge, that action by the board is ILLEGAL. Co-op boards are REQUIRED to distribute the real estate tax rebate to each shareholder each year.
To the best of my knowledge, that action by the board is ILLEGAL. Co-op boards are REQUIRED to distribute the real estate tax rebate to each shareholder each year.
8
Not so, L, It is typical standard operating procedure for co-ops to re-direct real estate tax rebates into the general operating funds. Happened in all 3 NYC co-ops I lived in over the course of 2 decades. "Rebates", keep in mind, does not mean tax "refunds" that you might otherwise receive by virtue of real estate taxes paid offsetting income taxes paid, which is a matter that a co-o[ board would have no knowledge of or right to.
Children have the right to exist and to be their exuberant selves. If you travel to Italy or Greece where there are very few children because of a low birth rate, the difference is noticeable and these are rather sad places.
13
Children have a right to exist - not a right to be rude, inconsiderate, and shriek all day.
As for Italy & Greece - you have the cause & effects backwards. The low birthrates in those countries are the result of failed economies and corrupt political leadership - not vice-versa.
There was a "baby bust" in this country too - from the early 30s through the Great Depression until after WWII.
Certainly it would be much sadder to go back to the old days when most people in those countries - and here too - had far more children than they could support decently - and there were swarms of ragged, hungry children in the streets.
As for Italy & Greece - you have the cause & effects backwards. The low birthrates in those countries are the result of failed economies and corrupt political leadership - not vice-versa.
There was a "baby bust" in this country too - from the early 30s through the Great Depression until after WWII.
Certainly it would be much sadder to go back to the old days when most people in those countries - and here too - had far more children than they could support decently - and there were swarms of ragged, hungry children in the streets.
9
There is nothing rude or inconsiderate about playing on a playground since it is where that behavior rightfully belongs.
18
I never wrote that playing is rude and inconsiderate - but the constant shrieking certainly is. And that's only become common in the past 10 years or so. Along with rude, inconsiderate, and out of control behavior by children in all kinds of situations and places, not just playgrounds, but also restaurants, stores, buses, etc.
7
I live directly across from a playground, and I don't mind it at all. Please keep this fact in mind when you see what I write next: the quote from Leslie Morgan is quite condescending. At it ignores the fact that, while children are only children for a short time, new batches keep cropping up. It's not as if the LW only has to deal with this noise for five or six years and it will vanish.
40
Completely agree. The "only children for a short time" comment was very condescending. Is doesn't matter if they are only children for a weekend. A weekend of screaming outside your window is more than enough.
9
There is an elementary school near our Marseille apartment, and when school is in session and the door to the kitchen balcony is open, we hear the children playing at recess. I like the sound of happy children. When the living room windows are open, we hear traffic, which I don't like.
25
'...Request that the board send a letter to residents reminding them to be mindful of the volume while using the playground...'
Fat chance. Children are noisy even inside an apartment. Outside, they never stop screaming. I know, as a mother of two.
When I was looking to buy an apartment, I did not bother to look at any that were adjacent to schools. My children are grown up now and I have had quite enough of all that noise.
If a coop playground was right outside of my window, I would sadly have to consider moving.
Fat chance. Children are noisy even inside an apartment. Outside, they never stop screaming. I know, as a mother of two.
When I was looking to buy an apartment, I did not bother to look at any that were adjacent to schools. My children are grown up now and I have had quite enough of all that noise.
If a coop playground was right outside of my window, I would sadly have to consider moving.
18
Regarding the condo playground: it is a common element and anyone, including adult members should be able to use it. It seems to be a very foolish use of common space to have only for children, especially since there is a park one block away. Like roof decks and laundry rooms, there should restricted hours of use, but that is no small comfort for anyone who works at home, or has night shift work. As for property value, if I was a prospective buyer, I would take one look out and down the window and move on...
19
Why should laundry rooms have a restricted use? How noisy is a washing machine, anyway?
2
The constantly loud interminable shrieking of little children is an excellent natural birth control device. Did we shriek like that when we were kids? Is it the sugar?
12
Yes. You did shriek like that as a child.
29
No one's expected to tolerate a non-stop barking dog. Why should they be expected to endure screaming kids?