It's not as if the tobacco industry were the only one whose bad effects on health and the environment need to be regulated by the different nations. The one exception just proves the rule.
2
So the text has not been published but the politicos have begun their grandstanding anyway. Can't wait for the backtracking to begin.
2
I'm very concernedabout this deal. We were told Nafta would be good for our American made products not so. There is not much "Made in America" anymore we need to protect what is left. These products are produced by American Workers. I have deep concerns. The Corporations will survive it's always the worker who gets hurt.
6
Hmm not sure why Japanese autos would be such a big deal. Most of the Toyotas, Hondas and other Japanese brands that you and I drive are manufactured here. In fact, US-made Toyota's use the most US-procured parts and components, even more than GM and Ford.
3
Trade Agreements are a necessary for a peaceful existence.
At this stage in humankind, we must find responsibility for our deadly errors of making Wars to decide issues. "Doctors without Borders" have a hospital with 22 dead and many others maimed because our US Leadership still decides issues by Wars. Millions of innocent civilians have been killed and maimed by the United States Military, in the last 75 years. It must stop. It must stop NOW.
At this stage in humankind, we must find responsibility for our deadly errors of making Wars to decide issues. "Doctors without Borders" have a hospital with 22 dead and many others maimed because our US Leadership still decides issues by Wars. Millions of innocent civilians have been killed and maimed by the United States Military, in the last 75 years. It must stop. It must stop NOW.
1
None of us know what is in it. If you believe what politicians tell you, you could be in for a surprise. I will wait and learn more. Whether it is a good or bad deal will depend upon the criteria you establish for yourself. My criteria will include primary effects, secondary effects, and net effects.
4
I used to be a freetrade person. But after NAFTA and several other trade deals over the last dozen years, all I can see from this deal is MORE jobs getting on the boat and going overseas to countries with lower wages and less concern for the safety of the workers or the buyers of the goods.
If, heaven help us, I were in charge I would, seriously, pass a law that required ANYONE selling goods to the United States be required to actually PRODUCE 50% here in the U.S. and that they be required to pay a fair rate of income tax on ALL goods sold in America.
If, heaven help us, I were in charge I would, seriously, pass a law that required ANYONE selling goods to the United States be required to actually PRODUCE 50% here in the U.S. and that they be required to pay a fair rate of income tax on ALL goods sold in America.
9
Why is that Obama's legacies do not have the United States as a beneficiary? His legacies seem to give great authority to nations other than the United States. His Obamacare legacy have hurt more people than helped. People have been hurt because they have the illusion of healthcare, but when it comes time to use the Obamacare policy, they find that the deductibles are so high that they might as well not have insurance. My wife found this to be true. With her $6,000 deductible, she found the coverage to be useless. We have only one more year to be punished by Obama's legacies. Thankfully only a year, but he can still do a lot of damage in that one year.
4
VAT taxes and currency manipulations, according to FORD, make this a bad deal.
Further, pharmaceuticals are made in China. So, the only benefit for pharma is patent protection. China will still benefit from the drugs' manufacturing.
Both Trump and Bernie Sanders say this is a bad, deal, and even Hillary cannot bring herself to say it's good.
Further, pharmaceuticals are made in China. So, the only benefit for pharma is patent protection. China will still benefit from the drugs' manufacturing.
Both Trump and Bernie Sanders say this is a bad, deal, and even Hillary cannot bring herself to say it's good.
6
This is a betrayal of our Government on the common working man in America, trade pacts have always worked to our detriment in the past and this will be no exception. The President and our Political Parties who owe allegiance to none but their wealthy donors have proven where their concerns lie.
We in America have now become subservient to the Wealthy who can now safely move offshore and hold our society to ransom. Basically we have just been told that AMERICA No Longer Matters, The Idea and Ideals of America have become passé, THE AMERICAN DREAM IS A FAILED EXPERIMENT.
We in America have now become subservient to the Wealthy who can now safely move offshore and hold our society to ransom. Basically we have just been told that AMERICA No Longer Matters, The Idea and Ideals of America have become passé, THE AMERICAN DREAM IS A FAILED EXPERIMENT.
8
China is the elephant in the room. The market is where it is. All the rules among countries desperate to sell are meaningless when the 21st century consumer is the Chinese middle class. Imagine a post-WWII Europe and Asia agreeing to market regulation while the U.S. economy booms for 50 years. Who would notice?
1
This agreement is really a proposed treaty under the Treaty Clause of the Constitution. The proposed agreement meets the requirement as to treaties with other naitons. As to the subject matter, of the proposed agreement, trade and commercial matters as well as multilateral treaties have been considered by the U.S. Senate, in the past. On May 31, 1860 a transit and commercial rights treaty with Mexico was disapproved by the U.S. Senate. On November 19, 1919, and March 19, 1920, a multilateral treaty; The Treaty of Versailles, was disapproved by the U.S. Senate.
3
The TPP should be a treaty, requiring that 2/3 of the Senate approve, if it is to be approved. Obama, however, has snookered the lazy Republican representatives that we have in Congress. These laggard representatives did not insist that this be rightfully termed a treaty. Now there is not way that Congress can defeat it.
2
Run out the clock. Then Barry will be gone and the Donald can make a better deal for US.
1
bern, unfortunately, Obama can still do a lot of damage while the clock is running. He is not considering another Executive Order, this time to push gun control. He can and will do a lot of damage to us in that one year.
1
Hi, we're the globalist elite! We brought you: Offshoring, Iraq war, financial crash, wealth extremes, illegal immigration, climate change, hostile superpower China, $19 trillion debt, and now TPP!
We're on a roll!!
TPP is so good we have to keep it secret so China doesn't steal it. Trust us!
We're on a roll!!
TPP is so good we have to keep it secret so China doesn't steal it. Trust us!
5
There may well be legitimate concerns about this very important trade deal, but there's little here in the comments to prompt rational assessment. It's largely just plain negatives without explanation or back up. I'm afraid too we're not going to get any help from the GOP dominated houses either. All they do is level a torrent of insults, disrespect, and paralyzing antipathy that eclipses what any president in living memory has had to put up with. Indeed not since the 19th century has a president met with a less cooperative, less civilized, less mature opposition. The result of course is that since 2010, the 112th, 113th, and now 114th congress’s that have endured unceasing obstruction led by Boehner in the House and McConnell in the Senate, are the most shameful, lowest rated and least effective in US history. What a shame.
2
When people have no solid information, they are forced to deal in speculation and pseudofacts. That was the predictable result of negotiating in secret on this agreement. People cannot back up what they say because the agreement is not public. You are right that the level of discourse is far from what it should be.
Another thing that is far from what it should be is functioning of our federal government. In my opinion, it will continue to be dysfunctional until we change the Senate rules that allows the minority party to use the filibuster on a constant basis against the majority party. We cannot get anywhere when one party constantly slams on the breaks in Congress. The 60 vote "requirement" mostly comes from today's Senate rules and mania to block what the other side wants; the Founding Fathers certainly did not set us to be tied up in this way.
Another thing that is far from what it should be is functioning of our federal government. In my opinion, it will continue to be dysfunctional until we change the Senate rules that allows the minority party to use the filibuster on a constant basis against the majority party. We cannot get anywhere when one party constantly slams on the breaks in Congress. The 60 vote "requirement" mostly comes from today's Senate rules and mania to block what the other side wants; the Founding Fathers certainly did not set us to be tied up in this way.
2
Let's consider wages and cost of living. Not all countries have similar costs of living. Where costs are higher, wages need to be higher to ensure a decent standard of living.
This deal will act like eBay, where the cost of a good will be produced ultimately in the lowest possible wage environment. For poorer countries that will be great, as it won't mean a drop in living standards, but it will cost jobs in higher wage countries.
In summary, this deal will ensure the lowest possible wages for the workers of the world, and will lower living standards and worker protections everywhere.
This deal will act like eBay, where the cost of a good will be produced ultimately in the lowest possible wage environment. For poorer countries that will be great, as it won't mean a drop in living standards, but it will cost jobs in higher wage countries.
In summary, this deal will ensure the lowest possible wages for the workers of the world, and will lower living standards and worker protections everywhere.
15
As with every other trade deal, this will not turn out well for the average US citizen. We will lose the few manufacturing jobs we have, have origin labels removed (antibiotics in the form of seafood), and larger trade deficits. If you believe for one moment, that we will be sending beef and corn to these countries you're mistaken. The cost of the product will out of reach for 99% of people in these countries.
8
Buried within the article is the information that the actual text will not be available for about thirty days. So this administration, which has gone after leakers more than any other, is itself leaking secret information? And everyone is already for or against without seeing the agreement? Question for NYT. What information is available, and how did it become available?
3
Just imagine going to buy a car and the salesman tells you how much you will enjoy it, how much money on gas it will save you, how easy it will be to drive and how good its trade-in value will be when you decide to get a new one. Then he tells you that you cannot look at the sales contract and you should trust him that all will be as he has told you.
Would you buy it?
Would you buy it?
9
Notice how Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong wasn't included in the deal. The three economies added together have twice the trade volume with US as the US-Japan trade but because their government refuse to approve America's steroid infused beef they are sitting this one out.
I think the only winner in this trade deal are American 1%er and corrupt officials in 3rd world countries.
I think the only winner in this trade deal are American 1%er and corrupt officials in 3rd world countries.
9
I couldnt concur more....why was the China door open so much into US anyways???
why so much more was imported than exported to thsi particular country? is that fair trade? thigns that make you go hmmmmm
“When more than 95 percent of our potential customers live outside our borders, we can’t let countries like China write the rules of the global economy,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “We should write those rules, opening new markets to American products while setting high standards for protecting workers and preserving our environment.”
right on
why so much more was imported than exported to thsi particular country? is that fair trade? thigns that make you go hmmmmm
“When more than 95 percent of our potential customers live outside our borders, we can’t let countries like China write the rules of the global economy,” Mr. Obama said in a statement. “We should write those rules, opening new markets to American products while setting high standards for protecting workers and preserving our environment.”
right on
1
I'm an American businessman living in Japan and I think the U.S. is making a huge mistake in going with TPP. Of America's three largest trading partners, it already has a trade agreement with two of them (Nafta). So, the TPP is really a trade agreement between the U.S. and Japan.
The problem is that Japan will never truly open its markets to U.S. products, regardless of what it agrees to on paper. There are tremendous cultural and structural non-tariff barriers against U.S. products in Japan. Call it nationalism, patriotism, or xenophobia, but Japanese consumers are extremely averse to buying non-Japanese products due to cultural conditioning (Apple's success is unique, since it has no homegrown Japanese competition).
I remember in the seventies and eighties how cheap Japanese products invaded America and the TPP risks doing the same again. Japan remains an extremely closed country where domestic companies have monopolies and pricing power to preserve margins by price gouging consumers at home.
The list of U.S. companies which have been forced to leave or downsize in Japan is a mile long. Just recently, it seems that someone "discovers" a foreign object like a human tooth almost weekly in McDonald's Japan food. These types of things do terrible harm to foreign brands. Citibank is also shutting down in Japan this year. Japanese companies then use this power and lack of foreign competition at home to reach scale economies and undercut American companies in the U.S.
The problem is that Japan will never truly open its markets to U.S. products, regardless of what it agrees to on paper. There are tremendous cultural and structural non-tariff barriers against U.S. products in Japan. Call it nationalism, patriotism, or xenophobia, but Japanese consumers are extremely averse to buying non-Japanese products due to cultural conditioning (Apple's success is unique, since it has no homegrown Japanese competition).
I remember in the seventies and eighties how cheap Japanese products invaded America and the TPP risks doing the same again. Japan remains an extremely closed country where domestic companies have monopolies and pricing power to preserve margins by price gouging consumers at home.
The list of U.S. companies which have been forced to leave or downsize in Japan is a mile long. Just recently, it seems that someone "discovers" a foreign object like a human tooth almost weekly in McDonald's Japan food. These types of things do terrible harm to foreign brands. Citibank is also shutting down in Japan this year. Japanese companies then use this power and lack of foreign competition at home to reach scale economies and undercut American companies in the U.S.
10
The GOP should respond the way Obama responds to them. If you send that deal to us for approval we will "Veto" it. Thank you very much. Have a nice day.
5
I am worried that this agreement would be devastating for smaller countries who will be forced into importing grain, milk products, meat, fruit that will undermine and destroy the market for home grown food. We know what happened to Mexican corn farmers as a result of NAFTA. The small farmers were forced out of business and lost control of their land to U.S. corporations.
4
And wound up coming to this country as illegal aliens taking jobs and welfare from needy Americans. A vicious cycle indeed. Only the elite benefited from NAFTA, CAFTA, and WTO and if, God forbid, TPFTP passes it will be more of the same----the little people will suffer while the rich grow richer.
6
Just wrong. They think they're going to eliminate tariffs? In every other trade deal the US has signed, the other countries simply renamed their tariffs to "value added tax." Only the US did away with tariffs. What's good for multinational corporations is not good for the US.
8
As others have said, this is a sad piece by the NYTimes. Not at all balanced and in fact there is no place for that trite phrase balance on this subject.
One can find and number of persons with noble prizes who are against it and not only for the pure "trade" concepts. One horrendous negative not even touched upon here is Climate change has gone missing in trade talks between the United States and 11 Pacific Rim countries.
“Trade agreements continue to override climate change. A habit of willfully erasing the climate crisis from trade agreements continues to this day. In 2014, American negotiators removed climate change protections from the Trans Pacific Partnership which is a very, very secret deal and had to be exposed through Wikileaks. The current elitist model of globalization through trade agreements has put us in climate crisis." (Naomi Klein)
Top U.S. trade negotiators appear to be trying to steer their counterparts away from even using the phrase "climate change" in the massive Trans-Pacific Partnership pact, a leaked summary of the the U.S.’s most recent proposal seems to show.
"To allow arcane trade law, negotiated with scant public scrutiny, to have this kind of power over an issue so critical to humanity’s future is a special kind of madness." (Naomi Klein)
All critically thinking persons must argue against this horrendous trade deal because it is more corporate power grabbing, continued deindustrialization of America and an American job loss generator.
One can find and number of persons with noble prizes who are against it and not only for the pure "trade" concepts. One horrendous negative not even touched upon here is Climate change has gone missing in trade talks between the United States and 11 Pacific Rim countries.
“Trade agreements continue to override climate change. A habit of willfully erasing the climate crisis from trade agreements continues to this day. In 2014, American negotiators removed climate change protections from the Trans Pacific Partnership which is a very, very secret deal and had to be exposed through Wikileaks. The current elitist model of globalization through trade agreements has put us in climate crisis." (Naomi Klein)
Top U.S. trade negotiators appear to be trying to steer their counterparts away from even using the phrase "climate change" in the massive Trans-Pacific Partnership pact, a leaked summary of the the U.S.’s most recent proposal seems to show.
"To allow arcane trade law, negotiated with scant public scrutiny, to have this kind of power over an issue so critical to humanity’s future is a special kind of madness." (Naomi Klein)
All critically thinking persons must argue against this horrendous trade deal because it is more corporate power grabbing, continued deindustrialization of America and an American job loss generator.
11
Not only does the TPP remove sovereignty from nations around the world, including the United States, but it also creates around 9,000 new, "sovereign nations" in the form of corporations.
Under the TPP, corporations will have the final say when it comes to the laws of nations. The TPP creates tribunals designed to 'settle disputes' when a country's law affects the profit margin of the 'sovereign-nation-corporation'.
The Constitution, for all intents and purposes, will be null and void. If the US government, any state government, or any nation's government around the world passes a law that impedes the flow of goods or restricts corporations in any way, the affected corporations (investors included), will be allowed to sue those nations in a tribunal of only a handful of lawyers.
These lawyers are corporate lawyers and are there to serve the needs of the corporations.
Some will not believe what I have just written, but this is the truth as it is already happening in many countries. Corporations have been suing governments under NAFTA and other trade deals in this manner. In fact, a bank sued a country because the country itself didn't bail out another bank, thus resulting in the suing bank losing money.
That means if the governments around the world don't bail out the banks, the governments will be sued. But that's only part of the issue with the TPP. The list is far too extensive for a <1500 character comment. Welcome to the NWO.
Under the TPP, corporations will have the final say when it comes to the laws of nations. The TPP creates tribunals designed to 'settle disputes' when a country's law affects the profit margin of the 'sovereign-nation-corporation'.
The Constitution, for all intents and purposes, will be null and void. If the US government, any state government, or any nation's government around the world passes a law that impedes the flow of goods or restricts corporations in any way, the affected corporations (investors included), will be allowed to sue those nations in a tribunal of only a handful of lawyers.
These lawyers are corporate lawyers and are there to serve the needs of the corporations.
Some will not believe what I have just written, but this is the truth as it is already happening in many countries. Corporations have been suing governments under NAFTA and other trade deals in this manner. In fact, a bank sued a country because the country itself didn't bail out another bank, thus resulting in the suing bank losing money.
That means if the governments around the world don't bail out the banks, the governments will be sued. But that's only part of the issue with the TPP. The list is far too extensive for a <1500 character comment. Welcome to the NWO.
12
Why is it that the readers don't get a tabled summary of what is and what is not in this agreement? Seems we get tables and graphics all the time when it comes to immigration, entitlement spending, national healthcare pricing variances, etc.
Where are the details or even high level summaries from this agreement? I don't want to wait until it's signed to read it.
Where are the details or even high level summaries from this agreement? I don't want to wait until it's signed to read it.
11
I agree. I would like to make up my own mind based on facts and not what a Senator or Ford Motors tells me.
2
These deals never deliver to the American people what they promise and free trade is not what they are about.
Few Americans from any walk of life would oppose "free trade" as long as it is fair trade. As a practical matter, there is no technology or enlightened management that can allow manufacturing or online services rendered by US wages with countries where child labor at less than a Dollar and hour is common. These countries also lack the kind of workplace safety and environmental protections that the more advanced nations have in place.
The economic pressures from deals like this make for a race to the bottom in wages and online services. Executives and managers will look at the gaping disparity in costs between places like Vietnam and the US and the results will be predictable.
Our nation's economy prospered as a manufacturing economy and it was during that time that a broad Middle Class and a prosperous Working Class were created. The continuing loss of jobs from these so-called Free Trade deals coincides with the decline of the economic standing of tens of millions of American families and the towns of middle and small town America.
Finally, on a planet rightly concerned with the carbon footprint of humanity and a time where cheap oil will soon be only a memory, why do we waste precious fuel shipping crap halfway across the globe that can easily be made locally? The model of universal global trade will not stand long term in the face of climate change & Peak Oil.
Few Americans from any walk of life would oppose "free trade" as long as it is fair trade. As a practical matter, there is no technology or enlightened management that can allow manufacturing or online services rendered by US wages with countries where child labor at less than a Dollar and hour is common. These countries also lack the kind of workplace safety and environmental protections that the more advanced nations have in place.
The economic pressures from deals like this make for a race to the bottom in wages and online services. Executives and managers will look at the gaping disparity in costs between places like Vietnam and the US and the results will be predictable.
Our nation's economy prospered as a manufacturing economy and it was during that time that a broad Middle Class and a prosperous Working Class were created. The continuing loss of jobs from these so-called Free Trade deals coincides with the decline of the economic standing of tens of millions of American families and the towns of middle and small town America.
Finally, on a planet rightly concerned with the carbon footprint of humanity and a time where cheap oil will soon be only a memory, why do we waste precious fuel shipping crap halfway across the globe that can easily be made locally? The model of universal global trade will not stand long term in the face of climate change & Peak Oil.
10
Excellent.
4
Perhaps BEFORE we showed this deal to 11 other countries, we should have made sure it passes through Congress. Now, all these countries like the deal, the American people know the deal is bad for the 99% and good for international corporations, and when it does not go through the Congress, America looks like a fool with a completely dysfunctional government. If you think Congress is giving Obama a hard time, wait until you see what they do when Bernie Sanders wins the election next year.
6
From your lips to God's ears, however, it only needs a majority vote and no filibuster is permitted, so you figure out what's going to happen with the knuckledraggers running congress and Obama to help them out.
5
Why isn't the New York Times mentioning anything about the administration unjustifiably upgrading the human-rights status of certain participating countries in order to push the deal through? This deal may come at the cost of our integrity, and in signing it we turn a blind eye to terrible situations in southeast asia like human trafficking.
5
Big Capital will always find a way to bigger profits. The TPP has opened the door for Big Capital to overtake and exploit new markets such as Vietnam's $0.39 per hour labor rate. These multinationals have no intentions of bringing jobs back to the United States. As long as they have assurances that their benefactors in the US government will look after their interests, there is no reason to. Just look at the recent talk that Subic Bay might be back on the agenda militarily. People are cynical about this agreement, and they have every reason to be.
9
When comments include the words "might" and "will," I find this all too curiously a link to predicting the future.
The US has had numerous trade agreements. None of which are remotely linked. For those with the ESP and sixth sense, do predict how this will affect the US economy and jobs.
The world is no longer disconnected. More foreign governments today have used the template of democracy to advance their societies. As such, trade with these countries conjoins the US in a more unified trade base, instead of the piece meal trade that is no longer relevant.
The US has had numerous trade agreements. None of which are remotely linked. For those with the ESP and sixth sense, do predict how this will affect the US economy and jobs.
The world is no longer disconnected. More foreign governments today have used the template of democracy to advance their societies. As such, trade with these countries conjoins the US in a more unified trade base, instead of the piece meal trade that is no longer relevant.
The agreement has 29 chapters, and only five of them have to do with trade. The other 24 chapters either handcuff our domestic governments, limiting food safety, environmental standards, financial regulation, energy and climate policy, or establishing new powers for corporations.
7
For some reason the montage that is playing inside my head right now as I think about the repercussions from the TPP, is an image of George Bush Sr waving his finger in my face, saying "read my lips! New World Order! Read my lips! New World Order!" -- and it's frightening!
5
Does it make sense to trade with China when China is behaving so badly? Cyber spying of businesses? They stole the plans for the F-35. Seizing the South China sea, and on an on. I am not in favor of this lame duck Administration selling us more more concessions to China.
2
China is not included in this deal.
1
Pro-big business trade deals like the TPP are designed to boost the profits of multinational corporations at the expense of middle-class citizens and our environment. A key provision called the Investor State Dispute Settlement, or ISDS, would allow companies to sue local governments over democratically enacted laws that they claim hurt their profits. Under a similar trade deal, Quebec, Canada is being sued by a company for $250 million over the province's moratorium on fracking.
The U.S. lost 700,000 jobs under NAFTA alone. We've continued to ship jobs overseas with each trade agreement we've entered into, and the TPP would likely be more of the same. The TPP could also increase the number of workers in sweatshop conditions in places like Vietnam and Malaysia that already have huge problems with unsafe, unfair and low-wage labor conditions.
The TPP touches a range of issues affecting the safety of our food and water. The oil and gas industry wants to use these trade deals to start exporting fracked gas to Japan, which would increase fracking here at home and expose more local communities to water pollution. These deals would also increase the flood of imported foods — especially for chemical- and antibiotic-tainted farm-raised shrimp and catfish. Local food initiatives like farm-to-school programs could be deemed “trade barriers,” and efforts to label GMOs could be threatened.
The U.S. lost 700,000 jobs under NAFTA alone. We've continued to ship jobs overseas with each trade agreement we've entered into, and the TPP would likely be more of the same. The TPP could also increase the number of workers in sweatshop conditions in places like Vietnam and Malaysia that already have huge problems with unsafe, unfair and low-wage labor conditions.
The TPP touches a range of issues affecting the safety of our food and water. The oil and gas industry wants to use these trade deals to start exporting fracked gas to Japan, which would increase fracking here at home and expose more local communities to water pollution. These deals would also increase the flood of imported foods — especially for chemical- and antibiotic-tainted farm-raised shrimp and catfish. Local food initiatives like farm-to-school programs could be deemed “trade barriers,” and efforts to label GMOs could be threatened.
7
The TPP is another horrible deal. Trips rules, or Trade Related Intellectual Property Rules takes away Sovereignty, and supersedes your own National Laws. Countries that don't make enough profits will have the option to sue each nation where they don't make the Profits, in international courts. This deal along with Fipa and all others before it, allows for example, beef, poultry and fish to be shipped to those countries for processing, coming back with gawd knows what back to US and Canada. The Health and Safety for food, in particular, from China is absolutely disgusting. Hormones, antibiotics, BGH in beef is not recommended for children in particular under 10 years of age. It interferes and takes over their own Endocrine system, and the carcinogens that are meant for animals, will end up in Human systems. Best thing for the American as well as the Canadian people and governments to do is ABROGATE FROM THESE DEALS. THESE ARE DEALS THAT WILL CORRUPT OUR FOOD SYSTEMS EVEN MORE SO THAN TOXIC CANCER CAUSING PESTICIDES FROM MONSANTO. They also rob each of our countries sovereignty, and each time one of these deals is signed, another part of our Constitutions goes down the memory hole. It's a bad contract all the way around, and should never have been signed in Secret, without the Mandate from the People. NO FULL DISCLOSURE, to its' citizens, NO DEAL. ABROGATE!!!
9
People forget that the EU came about through a series of trade agreements. These agreements do usurp the sovereignty of each individual nation. There is a lot of opposition to the TTiP in Europe, as they will have to accept the use of thousands of chemicals that were previously banned over there, but we still use here in the US. It puts the profits of corporations over the will and safety of the people.
5
This is a complex deal. As always these agreements cover a wide range of issues. If the auto industry and pharmacy industry are not happy there results may be better. To get deal for this many countries companies then media and companies must be limited in information. Seeing which companies oppose this deal will inform us who was gored. One example is pharmacy companies wanted seven years protection for drugs but the trade deal shortened protection years. That result is better for the people. In my view shows that the companies did not control all outcomes of the trade deal.
What s the cost ? No one is talking about the cost of U.S. jobs . Upstate NY is littered with closed factories and neighbor hoods surroundings these one time bustling industries that have been turned into crime centers and poverty. No one back in the 90's spoke of the job loss then either. WE the voter are watching that will not happen again . No more midnight NAFTA's and the re-election of those responsible like Clinton
6
This deal should be rejected out of hand simply because the Obama administration negotiated it. It has proven itself to be inept with the Iran nuclear giveaway, so why should we expect this to be any better?
3
We will not know the full and exact terms until the full text of the agreement is released. So, firm pronouncements of support or opposition are based upon speculation and may turn out to be wrong headed.
I was skeptical of many parts of the agreement as reported in the press around the time that "fast track" was being considered in Congress. Again, based upon press articles, it appears that a number of improvements have been made during the final negotiations. It appears that many more tariffs on our exports (18,000) have been reduced than have been increased, which should be good for employment in the U.S. Child labor laws, environmental and wildlife protections have been strengthened. Corporations' abilities to use the international tribunal to challenge sovereign laws has been weakened; and one of the most likely culprits - the tobacco industry - has lost the right to challenge laws. Excessively restrictive protections of drugs (biologics) has been made more reasonable. A side deal to limit currency manipulation appears effective - tariffs will be reimposed on countries that manipulate their currency.
So, I will wait to read articles based upon review of the full text. But, I am more optimistic now than before about this agreement.
I was skeptical of many parts of the agreement as reported in the press around the time that "fast track" was being considered in Congress. Again, based upon press articles, it appears that a number of improvements have been made during the final negotiations. It appears that many more tariffs on our exports (18,000) have been reduced than have been increased, which should be good for employment in the U.S. Child labor laws, environmental and wildlife protections have been strengthened. Corporations' abilities to use the international tribunal to challenge sovereign laws has been weakened; and one of the most likely culprits - the tobacco industry - has lost the right to challenge laws. Excessively restrictive protections of drugs (biologics) has been made more reasonable. A side deal to limit currency manipulation appears effective - tariffs will be reimposed on countries that manipulate their currency.
So, I will wait to read articles based upon review of the full text. But, I am more optimistic now than before about this agreement.
1
Thank you for the first cogent, relevant comment posted here. We don't know enough yet to judge. There is potential here for both concern and celebration. Let's get some bullet points, please!
NAFTA never lived up to the expectations that were proclaimed to increase trade and open markets for US goods. To paraphrase Ross Perot -after the passing of NAFTA the giant vacuum cleaner was turned on and sucked the jobs out of this country. With that in mind what makes anyone think that this trade deal will be any better. I'm afraid it won't. It may put some pressure on China, but there's nothing in this deal that either creates or protects American jobs.
10
There was nothing in NAFTA that protected jobs either. These two deals are precisely the antithesis of protectionist economics. But yes, expect potentially more job losses not gains, since free trade is about profit margins not job creation. The two are not necessarily synonymous.
3
The only thing that really matters is who is going to write the rules, the US and its trading partners or China. If we do not have TPP or something very much like it, China will fill the vacuum. And, we would like what China does a lot less than what we were able to do with TPP.
We've got the best government that money can buy.
7
What I understand of this deal, it would seem to strike at the very heart of the right of American citizens to enact laws that regulate everything from animal welfare to GMOs. For example, suppose Americans push congress to enact a law regarding GMO labeling and congress, in fulfillment of its duty to reflect and respect the wishes of the public - its constituents - complies. Under this deal, a foreign corporation that claims that an American GMO-lablelling law results in lost revenue could then sue our government for lost profits. The American taxpayers would then be obliged, through our treasury, to compensate the foreign corporation for its lost profits. Think of what that means. Not only do we lose our right to enact meaningful legislation that reflects our values and our concerns about what we buy and what we eat, how it is made and what it contains, but we, as taxpayers, would then be obliged to pay extortion money to foreign corporations. Does that sound outrageous? Well, it is, and that is why "fast-track authority" was sought and granted for this deal: in order to prevent changes to it and to keep as much of its contents as possible hidden from the American people. This deal sells the American people down river in order to enrich foreign and multinational corporations and should be opposed by every single American.
6
Labor is fears this agreement will bring a new wave to job loss to the American worker, as NAFTA did in the mid 90's. Workers are justified in their fears, but should look to Congress to make laws that control the flow of capital out of this country. The reason corporations move production from America, and American corporations buy products and services from foreign competitors, is more about avoiding American taxes than the cost of American labor. If Congress enacted laws that taxed all corporate profit at the same rate no matter where it was "earned", corporations would lose one incentive for moving their operations over seas. In addition, any corporation could be required to meet all of our environmental, health and workplace safety standards to operate or sell their products within our borders, couldn't they? Not entering into this agreement leave China to dominate the region. That is a worse idea.
Trade deals (including NAFTA/WTO) have been used by fossil fuel companies to scupper anti-climate change laws in the past. TPP probably cements these practices and makes it even more difficult to implement climate change legislation. There should have been similar provision for both climate as there are for tobacco (CO2 is the new tobacco!) but there was no mention of this in the article. This is one of reasons that the TPP is probably disastrous for climate.
4
This Trans-Pacific Partnership is a great deal for America. Obama did it for the best reason--to keep us number one and in full control of the rudder steering the Ships of Commerce.
The "legacy" of the Obama administrations is already assured...'First African-American president', and 'the president who had four record setting "do-nothing" Congresses who blocked, filibustered or obstructed every Democratic social initiative while creating a political divisiveness not experienced since the 1860/70's Reconstruction era.'
This preoccupation with "his legacy" is moving the president in directions contrary to the ideology and pleasure of the Democratic party and the voters who support it all.
This preoccupation with "his legacy" is moving the president in directions contrary to the ideology and pleasure of the Democratic party and the voters who support it all.
2
The secrecy of the PTT is very bothersome. No one signs a contract before reading it, And if one does, we call them stupid.
We have been sold global free trade and diversity for the past two decades. There has never been a thorough study on the impact of globalism on industrial nations. Impact on on jobs, introduction of invasive species that can wipe out our indigenous ones or deadly viruses which come in in millions of containers. the economic impact on the local people who can't afford to buy or keep their homes because wealthy foreigners are buying them at inflated prices.
The notion of diversity is absurd. We have diversity initially, then everything will start to look the same because it's easier for commerce and manufacturing on mega-scale. Product quality has already dropped considerably. It is cheap and useless with a very short longevity.
Cultural and racial diversity will also start to become uniform. Our menus will be reduced to a few invasive species of fish and crops. It is already predominantly catfish with exotic names.
What are we going to do with millions of an unemployed people in the near future, right here. The unemployment figures don't reflect the actual number of idle people who dropped out of statistics.
Good luck to corporations and individuals suing foreign corrupt governments for noncompliance to the terms of any treaty!
We have been sold global free trade and diversity for the past two decades. There has never been a thorough study on the impact of globalism on industrial nations. Impact on on jobs, introduction of invasive species that can wipe out our indigenous ones or deadly viruses which come in in millions of containers. the economic impact on the local people who can't afford to buy or keep their homes because wealthy foreigners are buying them at inflated prices.
The notion of diversity is absurd. We have diversity initially, then everything will start to look the same because it's easier for commerce and manufacturing on mega-scale. Product quality has already dropped considerably. It is cheap and useless with a very short longevity.
Cultural and racial diversity will also start to become uniform. Our menus will be reduced to a few invasive species of fish and crops. It is already predominantly catfish with exotic names.
What are we going to do with millions of an unemployed people in the near future, right here. The unemployment figures don't reflect the actual number of idle people who dropped out of statistics.
Good luck to corporations and individuals suing foreign corrupt governments for noncompliance to the terms of any treaty!
1
I don't need a study of the effects of globalization. All I have to do is take a drive through any part of the Allegheny region and just look at the decrepit former factories that have been left to rot. They are everywhere. Take a drive through this region and see for yourself. It is astounding. Many towns I see are trying to survive by offering up the tourism aspects of their former industrial history, which is kind of sad. Many have gone the route of introducing gambling casinos as a much needed revenue generator. It's a down right shame. Any economy needs manufacturing to survive---not just casinos, food trucks and nail salons.
2
About 99.9% of the population had no say on this agreement, took no part in the negotiation, and was even denied view of the draft text. Yet, this agreement will affect the lives of the 99.9% - and not necessarily in a good way.
Before such an enormously consequential agreement is turned into law, there should be a full disclosure of the text followed by a nation-wide referendum to let the PEOPLE decide.
Before such an enormously consequential agreement is turned into law, there should be a full disclosure of the text followed by a nation-wide referendum to let the PEOPLE decide.
6
Why does the media never tell us about Investor Protection? This is the biggest threat to democracy, allowing corporations to sue governments for loss of potential revenue. For example, if a government passes a law that protects the environment then corporations can sue them. If governments pass laws that subsidize green energy, corporations that extract oil or gas can sue them. Corporations and government are happy to tell us about the reduction of tariffs, but not about the reduction of democratic freedoms.
5
This trade deal is a no go period.
3
Congress, do us all a favor and kill this deal. These trade agreements have been absolutely lethal to our once vaunted middle class.
If our legislators opt instead to lend their support to those who stand to gain the most from these type of deals i.e. corporations seeking cheap labor and a cheap source of supply abroad, then Americans must grab the bull by the horns and unite to defeat these politicians who apparently now feel that their primary objective is to serve the interests of the ultra wealthy as opposed to the needs of the vast majority of Americans who for the past 25 years or more have been abandoned by a political system that has been engineered to favor the few over the many.
If our legislators opt instead to lend their support to those who stand to gain the most from these type of deals i.e. corporations seeking cheap labor and a cheap source of supply abroad, then Americans must grab the bull by the horns and unite to defeat these politicians who apparently now feel that their primary objective is to serve the interests of the ultra wealthy as opposed to the needs of the vast majority of Americans who for the past 25 years or more have been abandoned by a political system that has been engineered to favor the few over the many.
7
That photo speaks 10,000 words. Old white men have made the rules for the rest of us for long enough. This pact is terrible, the only time I have ever agreed with Trump on anything. I do not see any benefits to the citizens of the US from this deal, except of course to rich old white men trying to pay all of us a max of $10 per hour while buying their fifth house and tenth yacht. No to the TPP; notify your Congress Critter today to vote against this monster, though unless you have $10,000 to "donate" don't expect to be heard. Total Plutocratic Pathology.
5
You can oppose the TPP but why is necessary to use racist and ageist language in the process? You impugn your credibility.
3
I voted for him twice, but Obama continues to disappoint me.
We need to reduce not increase globalization.
We need to reduce not increase globalization.
8
It's clear that the TPP, if passed, will be even more disastrous for the environment and for American workers than earlier trade agreements. Late in this article, Jackie Calmes mentions that the "partnership" will eliminate tariffs some Asian countries place on exported information technology. Reading this, it occurs to me that Apple computers, say, already sell incredibly well and that they're not made in the U.S. anyway; it's just that Apple is owned by American-born billionaires who will make even greater super profits that never trickle down. Passage of this give-away to corporate fat cats would indeed be a fitting legacy for an administration that never met a billionaire it didn't bow down to.
3
This, more than any other issue since Nikon's crimes, infuriates me. I will be out in the streets.
2
Reading the various comments generated by this column on the Trans-Pacific Partnership by Jackie Calmes, one is struck by the superficiality of many comments. First of all, nothing in the column is disrespectful to President Obama either in tone or substance. More importantly, without having the slightest idea what Mr. Obama is thinking about the Partnership beyond his public statements, none of us can project that he is concerned about his “legacy” any more or less than every president about to end his second term may have such concerns.
The public statements made by the Partnership negotiators and, in some cases, those made by the principals they represent, are all we have to go on regarding motivation. Unless you are opposed to multi-national trade agreements which create freer markets with fewer barriers as a matter of political philosophy, you can only judge the T.P.P. by its individual provisions.
Protection of American workers and jobs is a legitimate concern. Protection of American industries and resources is a legitimate concern. Protection of American sovereignty and power is a legitimate concern.
Whether or not the Partnership advances or damages the legacy of Mr. Obama is of no concern. Whether the Partnership advances the domestic politics of Republicans or Democrats does not matter, if the agreement serves the interests of the United States.
The public statements made by the Partnership negotiators and, in some cases, those made by the principals they represent, are all we have to go on regarding motivation. Unless you are opposed to multi-national trade agreements which create freer markets with fewer barriers as a matter of political philosophy, you can only judge the T.P.P. by its individual provisions.
Protection of American workers and jobs is a legitimate concern. Protection of American industries and resources is a legitimate concern. Protection of American sovereignty and power is a legitimate concern.
Whether or not the Partnership advances or damages the legacy of Mr. Obama is of no concern. Whether the Partnership advances the domestic politics of Republicans or Democrats does not matter, if the agreement serves the interests of the United States.
Bill Clinton was on tv just the other day explaining (among other things) why he felt NAFTA was crucial. The TPP is the same scenario. It's going to hurt American workers and don't think they don't know it.
My take is this: Americans just have to get used to the idea that not only do the huge corporations no longer feel any allegiance to the citizens of the United States over the people of other countries, our presidents and most of Congress don't either. The welfare of the "world" now takes precedence over the interests of U.S. citizens. And the welfare of the mega-wealthy business class trumps everyone.
My take is this: Americans just have to get used to the idea that not only do the huge corporations no longer feel any allegiance to the citizens of the United States over the people of other countries, our presidents and most of Congress don't either. The welfare of the "world" now takes precedence over the interests of U.S. citizens. And the welfare of the mega-wealthy business class trumps everyone.
9
this deal is being shoved down our throats in Canada as well. when has a trade deal benefited the citizenry of any country. only the multinationals profit...stop the deal, please do not ratify the TPP.
3
From what I've read about this treaty, it is yet another power grab for corporations and a diminishing of soveriegnties to protect themselves from private law created by these corporations. I can't see how this would be good. This is not the structure of the EU which pushes human rights and the civil good forward. This agreement seems to push the proift of multinationals forward wrapped up in some gobbly gook that is made to look convincingly humane. In the treaties we already have, the corporate hegemony is clear, undermining peoples' rights to protect their environment and safety from the rights of profit. We don't need to grow their already considerable power over the world.
8
It fascinates me how many comments are making broad pronouncements (most of the of doom and gloom) without having read an agreement which is 30 CHAPTERS long.
We cannot remain isolationist in a global world. This agree certainly seems to open (not close) markets to US goods, including autos. Reducing the tariffs which other countries place on US goods should be good for the American worker. Many seem to want to undo the global nature of our world, but we cannot go back. If we do not participate, we will soon be irrelevant. Do you really want China to become the global economic power? We never get all of what we want in an agreement; often we don't get even most of what we want. Isolationism and/or holding out for 'my way or the highway' does not serve this nation well in the long term.
In addition to the isolationists, of course, we have the right wing which opposes anything Mr. Obama wants simply out of hatred. The sane person will ignore them for they would sink this country rather than give any positive acknowledgement to Mr. Obama.
We cannot remain isolationist in a global world. This agree certainly seems to open (not close) markets to US goods, including autos. Reducing the tariffs which other countries place on US goods should be good for the American worker. Many seem to want to undo the global nature of our world, but we cannot go back. If we do not participate, we will soon be irrelevant. Do you really want China to become the global economic power? We never get all of what we want in an agreement; often we don't get even most of what we want. Isolationism and/or holding out for 'my way or the highway' does not serve this nation well in the long term.
In addition to the isolationists, of course, we have the right wing which opposes anything Mr. Obama wants simply out of hatred. The sane person will ignore them for they would sink this country rather than give any positive acknowledgement to Mr. Obama.
This is not the way to negotiate an agreement that will affect millions of Americans.
"after years of negotiations and a series of sleepless nights here, was merely “an important first step,” conceded Michael B. Froman"
What's the rush to finish? Why sleepless nights? The first and foremost goal should be what is best for the average American and from what I have read, this fails. It picks and then locks in winners and losers. A highly regulated trade deal is not the same as free trade or fair trade.
Will Mr. Froman now go to work, at a high salary, for a corporation that directly benefitted from this deal?
"after years of negotiations and a series of sleepless nights here, was merely “an important first step,” conceded Michael B. Froman"
What's the rush to finish? Why sleepless nights? The first and foremost goal should be what is best for the average American and from what I have read, this fails. It picks and then locks in winners and losers. A highly regulated trade deal is not the same as free trade or fair trade.
Will Mr. Froman now go to work, at a high salary, for a corporation that directly benefitted from this deal?
9
Yes, I am sure he will.
This deal will be the death of America if it passes. Everyone needs to call their respective congressmen. Tell them you do not want this and, you will vote them out if they vote for it.
8
" Many American companies put their intellectual property in Singapore subsidiaries for legal reasons and tax reasons, and warned that they might not support the final agreement if Singapore left the negotiations over the currency issue "
Lovely to see that that U.S Corporations who effectively use Singapore as a tax haven to avoid paying tax on sales and income made in say Australia...(Apple paid less than 2% on Australian profits last year) Have a say in whether they will accept /support the TPP based on provisions they want and are aware of whilst the Public are not allowed either a say or a look at the agreement until it is agreed and signed and after which there can be no changes to ANYTHING.
This applies to the Public of ALL TPP signatory Countries.
So much for democracy and transparency.
Lovely to see that that U.S Corporations who effectively use Singapore as a tax haven to avoid paying tax on sales and income made in say Australia...(Apple paid less than 2% on Australian profits last year) Have a say in whether they will accept /support the TPP based on provisions they want and are aware of whilst the Public are not allowed either a say or a look at the agreement until it is agreed and signed and after which there can be no changes to ANYTHING.
This applies to the Public of ALL TPP signatory Countries.
So much for democracy and transparency.
13
Anyone interested in hearing Bernie Sanders' detailed perspective on the TPP, should watch his speech from the senate in which he attempted to stop the agreement from being fast tracked to get to where it is right now. Mr Sanders speaks the truth and is absolutely right in saying this agreement is going to be a disaster and it's going to send millions of jobs to countries like Vietnam, where the minimum wage is around .50 cents an hour!
Here is the speech: http://youtu.be/kNm1WL89JSc
Here is the speech: http://youtu.be/kNm1WL89JSc
15
Hear! Hear!
1
Thank you, sir.
1
It is amazing to see how many people know what is in agreement that they have never read.
2
"It is amazing to see how many people know what is in agreement that they have never read."
Including the New York Times as a party that has never read the agreement...because it's secret. Yet it somehow reports on that which it has never read.
Including the New York Times as a party that has never read the agreement...because it's secret. Yet it somehow reports on that which it has never read.
4
The NYT has spoken to the actual negotiators and is reporting what they have have said as well as the views of some who have not read it (and likely never will). It is not expressing an opinion on anything.
Protectionism is the progressivism of fools. Gandhi was a great statesman but a horrible economist. Just as the ignorant in the USA argue that American workers who earn $15 per hour should not have to compete with Chinese workers who make $2 per hour, Gandhi thought that Indian workers should not have to compete with American and European workers who have the benefit of modern machines. As a result India adopted protectionism. In 1947 the per capita income of India was similar to countries such a South Korea. By 1977 the per capita income and standard of living in South Korea was ten times that of India. India has since largely abandoned protectionism and has benefited immensely from free trade. Just as David Ricardo proved would be the case when he developed the concept of comparative advantage.
“....Equally unhelpful in terms of addressing the income and wealth inequality which results in the overinvestment cycle that caused the crisis are various non-tax factors. Issues such a minimum wage laws, globalization, free trade, unionization, problems with our education system and infrastructure can increase the income and wealth inequality. However, these are extremely minor when compared to the shift of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class. It is the compounding effect of shift away from taxes on capital income such as dividends each year as the rich get proverbially richer which is the prime generator of inequality…”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1543642
“....Equally unhelpful in terms of addressing the income and wealth inequality which results in the overinvestment cycle that caused the crisis are various non-tax factors. Issues such a minimum wage laws, globalization, free trade, unionization, problems with our education system and infrastructure can increase the income and wealth inequality. However, these are extremely minor when compared to the shift of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class. It is the compounding effect of shift away from taxes on capital income such as dividends each year as the rich get proverbially richer which is the prime generator of inequality…”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1543642
2
TPP will export the worst of US IP policy that stifles creativity and innovation in favor of propping up legacy content industries:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/secret-trans-pacific-partners...
https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=tpp
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/10/secret-trans-pacific-partners...
https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=tpp
6
"It would overhaul the system for settling disputes between nations and foreign companies."
What a nice, innocuous way of saying that this deal will override the rule of law in countries that sign, and prevent governments from bringing charges against companies in their national courts for things like oil spills, disasters, and dangerous practices.
This article is frighteningly general, utterly lacking in any sort of critical perspective whatsoever.
What a nice, innocuous way of saying that this deal will override the rule of law in countries that sign, and prevent governments from bringing charges against companies in their national courts for things like oil spills, disasters, and dangerous practices.
This article is frighteningly general, utterly lacking in any sort of critical perspective whatsoever.
20
Here is an article that has more detailed info, if you're interested. Peace.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-05/trans-pacific-partnership-deal-...
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-05/trans-pacific-partnership-deal-...
This is a Communist endeavor in the big picture, putting the other nations on equal footing with America. The essence of successful Capitalism is "Competition", and this renders America non-competitive.
Destroying import tariffs by the thousands will destroy American companies by the thousands.
We did not become the greatest economy in the world by a lack of competition, and the demise of our economy is well underway.
Destroying import tariffs by the thousands will destroy American companies by the thousands.
We did not become the greatest economy in the world by a lack of competition, and the demise of our economy is well underway.
7
Umm, isn't the purpose of tariffs to negate competition?
I'm vastly entertained perusing these comments, as they're almost universally negative about the TPP, loyally hewing to the gospel according to the most liberal among us.
We'll see how truly nefarious the intent was as congressional committees parse the actual implications. I suspect what we'll find, though, is that it offers advantages for what some believe are affordable disadvantages, and that the increase of international trade, that supports something north of 40 million American jobs to one extent or another (according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce), will be thought important enough to put up with some quid pro quos we don't like.
But I don't expect the more extreme on the left who believe in protection of unions at just about any cost will agree.
We'll see how truly nefarious the intent was as congressional committees parse the actual implications. I suspect what we'll find, though, is that it offers advantages for what some believe are affordable disadvantages, and that the increase of international trade, that supports something north of 40 million American jobs to one extent or another (according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce), will be thought important enough to put up with some quid pro quos we don't like.
But I don't expect the more extreme on the left who believe in protection of unions at just about any cost will agree.
Trump and Sanders hate it? Without reading it? I already like it!
6
A creature of nuanced reasoning I see.
2
We don't have a king deciding this--we have three branches of government, thank goodness! I am hoping that the people's opposition will not be ignored.
5
Well, our opposition has been ignored to this point. Why would that change now?
10
The United States has our Constitution as it supreme law, to create an administrative body beyond jurisdiction of US Courts, laws, and Congress --as the TPP would do for large corporations, is simply against the very spirit of the United States.
That this would be done under a so-called Constitutional scholar, and under a Democratic administration is beyond the pale. Indeed our President has no shame --and in this, Republicans and Mr. Trump are 100% correct. This is an awful deal, and it deserves nothing but the purest rejection from America and our Congress.
That this would be done under a so-called Constitutional scholar, and under a Democratic administration is beyond the pale. Indeed our President has no shame --and in this, Republicans and Mr. Trump are 100% correct. This is an awful deal, and it deserves nothing but the purest rejection from America and our Congress.
13
The TPP is now going to be the constitution in which our government needs to abide by in order not to risk being taken to a tribunal by a corporation and sued for inhibiting them to trade their goods into or out of of our country.
Basically any law that is passed that bans or places a moratorium on ANYTHING that one of the multinationals trades in, will violate the provisions of the TPP and will not be upheld.
Imagine if the U.S. Banned a product that was proven to be dangerous. Using the TPP, the companies that make said product could possibly overturn U.S. Laws after taking the government to a tribunal, for impeding on their right to do business under the guidelines of TPP.
Companies have already been doing this using free trade laws, to circumvent fossil fuel restrictions etc. this is more than a bad deal, it's a corporate chokehold!
Basically any law that is passed that bans or places a moratorium on ANYTHING that one of the multinationals trades in, will violate the provisions of the TPP and will not be upheld.
Imagine if the U.S. Banned a product that was proven to be dangerous. Using the TPP, the companies that make said product could possibly overturn U.S. Laws after taking the government to a tribunal, for impeding on their right to do business under the guidelines of TPP.
Companies have already been doing this using free trade laws, to circumvent fossil fuel restrictions etc. this is more than a bad deal, it's a corporate chokehold!
1
So, will we finally get to know just how bad it really is?
11
It is rumored that the "new" TPP contains all of PIPA and SOPA.
I understand the concept of why they need to negotiate this in private. But when the TPP legislation is revealed to have such EGREGIOUSLY anti-consumer laws, such as PIPA and SOPA, clearly written in by major corporations and with no respect to startups or innovation, is it any wonder why the public (and half of the technology community) rallies to defeat them again and again?
I don't want to have to use Microsoft OS and pay Disney and Telecommunications giants every time I want to watch anything on TV, even things they did not make.
I understand the concept of why they need to negotiate this in private. But when the TPP legislation is revealed to have such EGREGIOUSLY anti-consumer laws, such as PIPA and SOPA, clearly written in by major corporations and with no respect to startups or innovation, is it any wonder why the public (and half of the technology community) rallies to defeat them again and again?
I don't want to have to use Microsoft OS and pay Disney and Telecommunications giants every time I want to watch anything on TV, even things they did not make.
9
Ever stop and ask yourself after these long seven years of battles between President Obama and the Republican Congress,with very little accomplished, WHY are they Both Now joined on this particular piece legislation? and kept out of the public since it's inception?
Trade is one thing- in this case 5 chapters
Rules and regulating for special interests-30 chapters in this case.
Who is this deal really for?and who is behind it?How many corporations in America alone are behind this?There has to be something really magical behind this to work out the way they tell you it will.
Trade is one thing- in this case 5 chapters
Rules and regulating for special interests-30 chapters in this case.
Who is this deal really for?and who is behind it?How many corporations in America alone are behind this?There has to be something really magical behind this to work out the way they tell you it will.
13
This Agreements internal contents were mostly written by Corporate Lawyers and Lobbyist groups that work for them.
It has been produced mostly by them for their benefit and is being kept confidential to ensure interested, knowledgeable and deserving parties have no access to the Agreement UNTIL it has been signed after which NOTHING can be changed by ANYONE.
The very fact that ON THIS ALONE the Republicans joined the Democrats in voting for it, tells you that the Powers that be have told BOTH Parties that they must play ball on this Agreement. And of course they have.
When its contents are finally released, you will see it is a Corporate Grab Bag of rules, laws and edicts aimed at helping THEM above all else and that relaxing trade specifics like Tar riffs form a very small part of the overall document/agreement.
It has been produced mostly by them for their benefit and is being kept confidential to ensure interested, knowledgeable and deserving parties have no access to the Agreement UNTIL it has been signed after which NOTHING can be changed by ANYONE.
The very fact that ON THIS ALONE the Republicans joined the Democrats in voting for it, tells you that the Powers that be have told BOTH Parties that they must play ball on this Agreement. And of course they have.
When its contents are finally released, you will see it is a Corporate Grab Bag of rules, laws and edicts aimed at helping THEM above all else and that relaxing trade specifics like Tar riffs form a very small part of the overall document/agreement.
7
Another disaster for American workers. From candidate Obama to president Obama there is a such an abyss that not even the fastest goat can jump across. What a sham.
14
At what point will the members of the Congress remember that they're supposed to work for the people, not the president? Especially the president doesn't feel like sharing with the people the details of any bad deal he elects to sign.
7
The members of congress that are in favor of this agreement certainly do not work for, or even support the president. That's blatantly obvious, especially on the majority side.
Who they DO work for, are the multinational corpoations and billionaires who drafted and stand to benefit from this agreement.
Who they DO work for, are the multinational corpoations and billionaires who drafted and stand to benefit from this agreement.
10
The concept of the Trans-Pacific Partnership is good one: 1) a trade agreement of Pacific Rim countries in which the United States plays the key role, 2) simplification of international trade and removal of many trade barriers, 3) a straight up-or-down vote in Congress with no amendments or filibusters, and 4) a mechanism, after approval, to settle disputes with relative ease and speed.
The problem – and it is a big one – is to ensure that the T.P.P. does not exacerbate the drift of American jobs to Asia, does not imperil intellectual property rights of American companies in the entertainment industry or the internet, and neither lengthens nor shortens patent protection for various pharmaceuticals to make them more expensive or less safe for Americans.
Democrats should not have a knee-jerk opposition to the T.P.P. because it fails to stop American jobs from being performed in Asia by Asians. Frankly, nothing is going to stop that trend until the labor cost differential shrinks. It will be sufficient if the T.P.P. slows the trend by making Asian companies comply with basic environmental and worker safety and age regulations, thereby incurring a cost facing American manufacturers at home.
For years we have heard about opening Asian markets for selling American products and produce. Instead, American companies have ended up being buyers – of Asian labor and products. We need an assurance that the T.P.P. will break that pattern. President Obama must make that showing now.
The problem – and it is a big one – is to ensure that the T.P.P. does not exacerbate the drift of American jobs to Asia, does not imperil intellectual property rights of American companies in the entertainment industry or the internet, and neither lengthens nor shortens patent protection for various pharmaceuticals to make them more expensive or less safe for Americans.
Democrats should not have a knee-jerk opposition to the T.P.P. because it fails to stop American jobs from being performed in Asia by Asians. Frankly, nothing is going to stop that trend until the labor cost differential shrinks. It will be sufficient if the T.P.P. slows the trend by making Asian companies comply with basic environmental and worker safety and age regulations, thereby incurring a cost facing American manufacturers at home.
For years we have heard about opening Asian markets for selling American products and produce. Instead, American companies have ended up being buyers – of Asian labor and products. We need an assurance that the T.P.P. will break that pattern. President Obama must make that showing now.
2
I will wait until Trump, along with everyone else gets to read the content of this "transparent" deal. Sounds familiar..the last bill no one read was Obamacare before it was passed. I will then watch Trumps numbers go up another 10 points after it all have read it.
2
China will (correctly) interpret this deal as designed to be a direct challenge.
1
So now where can we see the text of this agreement, which was negotiated in secret?
Corporations knew the text and were involved in the negotiating, as this article shows, but the citizens of this country did not and were not.
Corporations knew the text and were involved in the negotiating, as this article shows, but the citizens of this country did not and were not.
5
Big corporations WROTE large parts of the text.
Learn your appropriate manner of addressing the leader of this country. He is NOT Mr. He is President Obama. You make your living as a journalist and you should know better than to be so disrespectful
7
I vary between "President Obama" and "Mr. Obama", due to the needs of keeping comments to 1500 characters (including spaces). It's a trick that helps while not adopting the practice of so many of simply referring to him as "Obama", which strikes me as disrespectful. However, I disrespect him all the time, but for reasons of outré and downright damaging policy decisions. My way tends to keep matters as civil as I can, although I'd admit that it could nettle the more pompous among us.
5
False. Presidents are always referred to as Mr.
3
@jgetc: it is perfectly respectful and good form to refer to ANY President as "Mr. So-and-So" after the first reference to him as President. This was done for all previous Presidents. Stop being so touchy! it's nothing personal, nor is it disrespectful. It is a standard form.
1
Just as the industry is at a moment of breakthroughs for immunological cancer therapies, limiting the protection on what they have poured billions into to a mere 5 years is ridiculous.
Not to mention the scores of American software engineers that will end up without jobs when companies start bringing in replacements at 1/4 of their salaries.
Not to mention the scores of American software engineers that will end up without jobs when companies start bringing in replacements at 1/4 of their salaries.
2
So where is the change and the hope that I voted for twice? The Republicans may have sabotaged his Presidency but he did nothing to support the working people who elected him. TPP is one more example.
13
'There goes the neighborhood!' More lost jobs, lower pay, weakened benefits! Thanks, Obama!
11
Some of the detractors mentioned the elimination of country-of-origin labels as something that will hurt American quality of life. Frankly, American standards especially those of the agriculture, food, and stuff set by the FDA are probably of a much more prehistoric standard than most of the countries in the TPP agreement. IIt's the American producers who will benefit most from the removal of the label, not the other way around. The current American standard is a joke. Don't take yourself too seriously.
2
Are you saying you think Hong Kong has better food standards than the USA? Can you be more specific?
2
The TPP is to the Dems like the ACA is to the GOP. They automatically hate it and don't want to hear anything that might confuse their bias. As another comment noted the Dems blame NAFTA for dramatic job loses in the US. The facts don't support that. At the time jobs were being lost because of increased automation and in some cases because our products were inferior - e.g., cars. Trying to stop technology advances and stifling world trade is a fool's errand. Better to negotiate the terms that are best for the US rather than rely on unfettered commerce that allows countries to set their own rules.
1
The Dems opposition to TPP is not similar to the GOP opposition to ACA. The Dems have always opposed the terms of the trade agreements and have given good reasons. For years, respected liberal writers have pointed out that instead of engaging in debate, Obama and the GOP simply ignore the case they make, misrepresent the case they make, and speak disrespectfully of the critics of the trade agreements. They falsely accuses them of wanting to stifle trade and failing to recognize the need for trade.
The components of ACA such as the mandate were long part of the GOP plan for health insurance, when they proposed a market based alternative to single payer.
Obama adopted the mandate thinking it would be bipartisan. Most in the GOP began to oppose it only after Obama agreed to it. Newt Gingrich did not state public opposition to the mandate until 9 months after ACA passed and the lawsuit against Obama had gained momentum. The main GOP opposition to ACA has been about the mandate.
Notice here, that instead of responding to the criticisms of the trade agreements, the Dems are disrespectfully accuse of irrationality, they “automatically hate it.”
The components of ACA such as the mandate were long part of the GOP plan for health insurance, when they proposed a market based alternative to single payer.
Obama adopted the mandate thinking it would be bipartisan. Most in the GOP began to oppose it only after Obama agreed to it. Newt Gingrich did not state public opposition to the mandate until 9 months after ACA passed and the lawsuit against Obama had gained momentum. The main GOP opposition to ACA has been about the mandate.
Notice here, that instead of responding to the criticisms of the trade agreements, the Dems are disrespectfully accuse of irrationality, they “automatically hate it.”
3
I am looking at the map in the article: Canada, Japan, Singapore, Australia and New Zealand have better labor laws and social safety nets than we do. These countries make up the bulk of the trade involved in this agreement.
Of the countries that are worrisome: Mexico, Vietnam, Malaysia. Their labor, environmental regulatory, political stability and political corruption record are pathetic.
Of the countries that are worrisome: Mexico, Vietnam, Malaysia. Their labor, environmental regulatory, political stability and political corruption record are pathetic.
3
And our political corruption is not pathetic?
Wouldn't it be Ironic if Australia used the Workers Rights/Labour Standards/Social Safety Net Provisions to force the U.S.A in adopting better and higher standards in these areas so it could better compare with our standards as we find America lagging in these areas....?!
We would demand that you pay your Workers a minimum wage of US$18 an hour (with Part Time workers getting 25% more an hour than that) 4 weeks paid Holidays, 10 days paid sick leave and 18 weeks paid Maternity Leave,. 50% per hour more for first 2 hours overtime then 100% more Overtime after 2 hours with penalty rates in evening , weekends and public Holidays (Minimum wage working on a public Holiday ramps up to US$39 an hour!)
Not to mention requesting the U.S to meet the Universal Health Care Coverage standard that Canada, Japan, Singapore , Australia and New Zealand all take for granted and have had for so long it's not seen as anything but a basic requirement.
I would LOVE to force that on to U.S Corporations as a legal Trading Partner requirement that had to be abided by! Not only would it be a great boon for U.S workers , but excellent "Karmic" Pie in the faces of those greedy Corporations who wrote the TPP to benefit and enrich themselves!
Sigh...we can only dream such a thing...
We would demand that you pay your Workers a minimum wage of US$18 an hour (with Part Time workers getting 25% more an hour than that) 4 weeks paid Holidays, 10 days paid sick leave and 18 weeks paid Maternity Leave,. 50% per hour more for first 2 hours overtime then 100% more Overtime after 2 hours with penalty rates in evening , weekends and public Holidays (Minimum wage working on a public Holiday ramps up to US$39 an hour!)
Not to mention requesting the U.S to meet the Universal Health Care Coverage standard that Canada, Japan, Singapore , Australia and New Zealand all take for granted and have had for so long it's not seen as anything but a basic requirement.
I would LOVE to force that on to U.S Corporations as a legal Trading Partner requirement that had to be abided by! Not only would it be a great boon for U.S workers , but excellent "Karmic" Pie in the faces of those greedy Corporations who wrote the TPP to benefit and enrich themselves!
Sigh...we can only dream such a thing...
ISDS, which allows private companies to sue governments over hindersome regulations, is one of the most consequential provisions of the TPP. The writers of the deal responded to criticism by banning tobacco companies from launching ISDS suits, but isn't tobacco just the tip of the iceberg? What about fossil fuel companies suing governments over green laws that burden their industry? Or drug companies suing national health programs that mandate lower pharmaceutical prices? We may not know whether TPP addresses such concerns until we see how that kind of arbitration plays out.
4
I would want to believe that the US Congress will give this pact the same 'outraged' attention and microscopic evaluation as in the case of the Iran Pact. Oh...., say that again?.....this pact benefits the 1%? Never mind then, keep it in the black box.
4
For shame! How could you print this without even one single quote from those that are opposing? Like ignoring us will make the dissent go away?
I think too you might have mentioned that what we little people know about the deal has been furnished by whistleblowers and Wikileaks. And the time frame you offer up is not what we have been lead to believe. MORE SECRECY for another 60 days.
Opponents, like myself, are not "poised to argue" .. we've been following right along for five years or more. This is plutocracy at work, and it's a defeat of national sovereignty to have appointed panels to "arbitrate" disputes.
You can bet your last dime the Big Pharma issue is far from having an end to the debate.
Not a single sane soul believes this is about "free" trade.
I think too you might have mentioned that what we little people know about the deal has been furnished by whistleblowers and Wikileaks. And the time frame you offer up is not what we have been lead to believe. MORE SECRECY for another 60 days.
Opponents, like myself, are not "poised to argue" .. we've been following right along for five years or more. This is plutocracy at work, and it's a defeat of national sovereignty to have appointed panels to "arbitrate" disputes.
You can bet your last dime the Big Pharma issue is far from having an end to the debate.
Not a single sane soul believes this is about "free" trade.
10
I looked and looked and cannot find Brunel as a country or island as you indicate in your graphic. Any corrections?
brunei
1
You're reading it wrong. It's "Brunei."
This is one of those rare instances where, no matter how much I study the subject, I am really unsure how I would vote. As with most political agreements, there will definitely be unforeseen consequences. However, with highly complex issues that will, of necessity, change the very economic, social, and political environments which generate such agreements, those unforeseen consequences are likely to be of truly significant proportion and consequence.
Advocates and opponents speak in absolutes, of heaven and hell. It is best we all remember that "convincing" people -- especially in the current 24/7, media saturation, slogan environment -- what we are largely hearing are the expressions of marketing strategies. It is best if we make our decisions on the basis of what is said, not who says it, and go out of our way to read and listen to the more reputable sources of viewpoints we tend to disagree with.
And let us remember ten years from now, some prognosticators will turn out to have been right for no currently justified reasons and some will turn out to have been wrong with justified reasons.
Advocates and opponents speak in absolutes, of heaven and hell. It is best we all remember that "convincing" people -- especially in the current 24/7, media saturation, slogan environment -- what we are largely hearing are the expressions of marketing strategies. It is best if we make our decisions on the basis of what is said, not who says it, and go out of our way to read and listen to the more reputable sources of viewpoints we tend to disagree with.
And let us remember ten years from now, some prognosticators will turn out to have been right for no currently justified reasons and some will turn out to have been wrong with justified reasons.
2
In regards to agriculture & pharmaceutical provisions, what this does is help make the rich, richer, and the poor, poorer.
6
Fighting the passage of the TPP and the TTIP!!
4
Republicans are against anything Obama is for. I'm for Obama generally and this trade pact specifically. Congrats to Obama. Well done once again. We will miss you after your 2nd term is finished. It is really scary to look at the future alternatives to President.
Others have pointed out that NAFTA may be blamed for too much. Many of the manufacturing jobs that have left the US have ended up in the Far East, not in Mexico.
That's true, but it doesn't change the fact that those manufacturing jobs have left the US. For example, the Hoover vacuum cleaner company closed its factory in Canton fairly soon after NAFTA, and shifted production from there to its Mexico plant (which was already in existence then, but took on more production). I have no idea whether Hoover is still making vacuum cleaners in Mexico or has since shifted production to the Far East. But I do know this: the Hoover vacuum cleaner company has not reopened its plant in Canton, Ohio.
That's true, but it doesn't change the fact that those manufacturing jobs have left the US. For example, the Hoover vacuum cleaner company closed its factory in Canton fairly soon after NAFTA, and shifted production from there to its Mexico plant (which was already in existence then, but took on more production). I have no idea whether Hoover is still making vacuum cleaners in Mexico or has since shifted production to the Far East. But I do know this: the Hoover vacuum cleaner company has not reopened its plant in Canton, Ohio.
2
I live about an hour north of Canton. This entire area was once ground zero of the vacuum industry. It's all gone now. Some went to Asia, but many went to Mexico. People would be surprised how much is manufactured in Mexico! I owned two "so-called" American cars, that upon reading the manuals, turned out to have been assembled in Mexico.
In short: no -- there is no more vacuum manufacturing in Ohio at all. It's all dead as a doorknocker, and took many thousands of good paying jobs from this area.
In short: no -- there is no more vacuum manufacturing in Ohio at all. It's all dead as a doorknocker, and took many thousands of good paying jobs from this area.
3
Otherwise known as TNWO (The New World Order). This is why the EU has seized on the migrant crisis to weaken nation-states, national identities after enough foreign saturation of their cultures, national borders, national cultures.
It's a pretty sad day when you realize that both the centre-left and center-right are colluding in this, and the only hope of staving it off is the far right.
It's a pretty sad day when you realize that both the centre-left and center-right are colluding in this, and the only hope of staving it off is the far right.
7
Of course this deal will be bad for US manufacturing workers -- just as it almost certainly will be good for US consumers. Many people are both, of course: the Walmart shopper. If you're lucky enough to be only one -- a consumer -- you'll probably end up happy with the deal. If you're both, it will depend on the "mix," but you're likely to a little less happy about the deal if you're a manufacturing worker. Though none of has read the text yet, it's a fair bet that it won't be requiring any country use US manufacturing workers to make their products, and it's an equally fair bet that, given a choice, very few manufacturers will use US workers.
That's the way trade deals work. Good overall, but not necessarily for every individual.
That's the way trade deals work. Good overall, but not necessarily for every individual.
"But arrayed against the United States, which said the protection was a necessary incentive for drug makers to innovate, were virtually every other country at the table, led by Australia." Of course - there is no drug development industry in Australia. Have to laugh at these countries who expect America's Big Pharma to immediately reconcile new drugs to generics. The US leads the world in biologics; tremendous cost, effort and brain power was required to bring these drugs to commercial fulfillment. Why aren't these companies entitled to patent protection for a period of time to recoup the cost of total R&D expenditures and make a profit.
Everyone wanting generics neglects to consider that generics are simply mooching on the real costly - often unsuccessful - R&D done by Big Pharma. The Australians are balking at the reduced 5 to 7 years exclusivity; which shows basically that they want no patents. Sure, agree to the Australians and there will be no new drugs - that you can count on.
Everyone wanting generics neglects to consider that generics are simply mooching on the real costly - often unsuccessful - R&D done by Big Pharma. The Australians are balking at the reduced 5 to 7 years exclusivity; which shows basically that they want no patents. Sure, agree to the Australians and there will be no new drugs - that you can count on.
1
I fondly remember Jonas Sall declaring his refusal to work on the polio vaccine until he was promised greater patent protections and profits. Or perhaps there are some motivated by other factors than the allure of wealth beyond all imagination.
"Lowering trade barriers means lower prices for everyone. Some people may get hurt, but overall this will be good."
Depends on whether you're PAYING the prices (consumers) or RECEIVING the prices (workers). For the first group, this deal almost certainly will be good. For the second group -- well, not so much.
Depends on whether you're PAYING the prices (consumers) or RECEIVING the prices (workers). For the first group, this deal almost certainly will be good. For the second group -- well, not so much.
2
"I understand why the Democrats were wary but it might turn out to be a better deal than NAFTA."
I can guess the response to that observation:
"That ain't saying much."
I can guess the response to that observation:
"That ain't saying much."
3
One more reason to vote for Bernie!
9
Marvin is skeptical:
"Come on, there will be a committee to assist smaller companies. A committee."
I've heard this committee will be authorized to hold meetings, and to issue reports! There's even some talk about them being authorized to make recommendations. That ought to do the trick.
"Come on, there will be a committee to assist smaller companies. A committee."
I've heard this committee will be authorized to hold meetings, and to issue reports! There's even some talk about them being authorized to make recommendations. That ought to do the trick.
4
Are American workers better skilled than workers in Vietnam, Japan, etc?
I doubt it. Even their attitudes are much worse than workers of other countries: unkind.
Can they speak other languages? At least many Chinese workers can speak English. If we compare H&M and Uniqlo stores, people in Uniqlo are 10 times better trained. Of course, it is not just their workers, but American CEOs are much worse than Japanese CEOs; they take it for granted that they are paid ridiculous amount of salary and bonus.
All in all, it is the time that the U.S. become truly globalized. Until now, the U.S. enjoyed the globalization of other countries. Now, the U.S. should become globalized. How can Donald Trump be so popular in the U.S.? Because Americans in a sense have been living in their own well; they are the least globalized people in the world. The fact that they travel a lot has nothing to do with globalization. That means nothing. True globalization means a give-and-take in every aspect of life. Most of all, Until now, American have been outside that jungle of give-and-take game. Not any more. Learn how other countries have been doing. Wake up Donald Trumpeans.
I doubt it. Even their attitudes are much worse than workers of other countries: unkind.
Can they speak other languages? At least many Chinese workers can speak English. If we compare H&M and Uniqlo stores, people in Uniqlo are 10 times better trained. Of course, it is not just their workers, but American CEOs are much worse than Japanese CEOs; they take it for granted that they are paid ridiculous amount of salary and bonus.
All in all, it is the time that the U.S. become truly globalized. Until now, the U.S. enjoyed the globalization of other countries. Now, the U.S. should become globalized. How can Donald Trump be so popular in the U.S.? Because Americans in a sense have been living in their own well; they are the least globalized people in the world. The fact that they travel a lot has nothing to do with globalization. That means nothing. True globalization means a give-and-take in every aspect of life. Most of all, Until now, American have been outside that jungle of give-and-take game. Not any more. Learn how other countries have been doing. Wake up Donald Trumpeans.
1
Uh...H&M is a Swedish owned and operated chain of clothing stores. It's not American-run at all.
I am sure in the USA, both H&M and Uniqlo have US managers and employees.
I am sure in the USA, both H&M and Uniqlo have US managers and employees.
1
this is very disturbing news. we cannot withstand an unregulated trans-corporate free-for-all that is all for profit and not at all for the worker, the consumer, the environment or human rights.
Bernie, please fight for us.
Bernie, please fight for us.
4
hello, service industry economy, when managers begin to put out nets to capture our young (treasures) might be time to revolt.
2
The Trans Pacific Partnership agreement (TPP) faces numerous and substantial hurdles in being passed in a form consistent with the promises and representstions which have preceded this announcement. The fact that the 12 ministers had to be literally locked in rooms and cajoled, enticed and threatened to move their draft forward is compelling prologe to the gauntlet the TPP faces in the legislatures and societies of their respective countries. I appreciate President Obama had to at least get a draft of the TPP out of the meeting in Atlanta after the disastrous session in Hawaii.
Any reports of the provisions of the TPP from the partner nations, USTR, White House and mass media should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism until the final approved draft is released. The major international corporations, lobbyists, government officials are very aware the TPP has generated far too much public attention and scrutiny then expected or desirable. It should not be surprising considerable and intentional misinformation about the TPP will be disseminated to identify, confuse and nullify as much public opposition as possible before formal submission to the U.S. Senate.
However, the critical Achilles heel of the vaunted TPP isnt its particular provisions but the fact political and corporate elites have lost the requiste credibility and trust of the millions of their fellow citizens whom have presumed upon and betrayed in pervious "trade" agreements.
Any reports of the provisions of the TPP from the partner nations, USTR, White House and mass media should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism until the final approved draft is released. The major international corporations, lobbyists, government officials are very aware the TPP has generated far too much public attention and scrutiny then expected or desirable. It should not be surprising considerable and intentional misinformation about the TPP will be disseminated to identify, confuse and nullify as much public opposition as possible before formal submission to the U.S. Senate.
However, the critical Achilles heel of the vaunted TPP isnt its particular provisions but the fact political and corporate elites have lost the requiste credibility and trust of the millions of their fellow citizens whom have presumed upon and betrayed in pervious "trade" agreements.
4
The World's free citizens are sleeping while their freedom is being eliminated. I'm amazed by how many seem to have no interest in this, at all.
7
God Help Us All.
A President with such potential, decomposes and succumbs to everything the 1% could ever hope for with this travesty of fairness.
A President with such potential, decomposes and succumbs to everything the 1% could ever hope for with this travesty of fairness.
18
He'll need a cushy "directorship" on one of those corporations once he leaves office - one must plan for the future, mustn't one.
2
Before you go off the deep end you might recall that Obama has run in his last election, and as an ex-President he can make all the money he wants writing books and giving lectures - he is beholding to no one. So maybe you ought to read the agreement before you decide what is in it?
What to do?
13 Democratic senators voted for "fast track".
I will donate to *every* primary opponent of this group of 13 who has any chance at all of defeating one of them.
If any of this group if 13 win the primary, I will donate to any opponent - even a Republican - who credibly will oppose this attack on US sovereignty.
Hopefully, the Republican House members votes for TPP will be an albatross around their necks, in the 2016 election.
This isn't over.
13 Democratic senators voted for "fast track".
I will donate to *every* primary opponent of this group of 13 who has any chance at all of defeating one of them.
If any of this group if 13 win the primary, I will donate to any opponent - even a Republican - who credibly will oppose this attack on US sovereignty.
Hopefully, the Republican House members votes for TPP will be an albatross around their necks, in the 2016 election.
This isn't over.
21
I think Americans' reaction to this deal is ridiculous and unconscientious.
How could the U.S. become so rich? Although the middle class of the U.S. are not doing well now, they thrived better than any other kinds of people on the earth during the 20th century.
What made that possible? By exporting, simply selling, all kinds of things to other countries. That's why people in poor countries envied Roseanne family on TV because they lived in a big house, had a huge fridge, and so on. In other words, people in many other countries cannot even afford that now.
How many GE televisions were exported to other countries? How many cars were sold to other countries? How could Detroit be built in the first place? Without sellling American products to other countries? Are you kidding?
The U.S. enjoyed and reaped the benefits of exporting better than any other country in the world. That happened without any kind of international trade agreement. As a result, laborers in other countries could not get any protection. Now, the flow of trade is changing; namely, it is not so good to the U.S. anymore. But Obama could get around the international trade. In other words, when things are not so propitious to the U.S., an international trade agreement got established. What does that mean? Only those people like Donald Trump, in other words, those with short-sighted perspectives, do not understand what it means.
How could the U.S. become so rich? Although the middle class of the U.S. are not doing well now, they thrived better than any other kinds of people on the earth during the 20th century.
What made that possible? By exporting, simply selling, all kinds of things to other countries. That's why people in poor countries envied Roseanne family on TV because they lived in a big house, had a huge fridge, and so on. In other words, people in many other countries cannot even afford that now.
How many GE televisions were exported to other countries? How many cars were sold to other countries? How could Detroit be built in the first place? Without sellling American products to other countries? Are you kidding?
The U.S. enjoyed and reaped the benefits of exporting better than any other country in the world. That happened without any kind of international trade agreement. As a result, laborers in other countries could not get any protection. Now, the flow of trade is changing; namely, it is not so good to the U.S. anymore. But Obama could get around the international trade. In other words, when things are not so propitious to the U.S., an international trade agreement got established. What does that mean? Only those people like Donald Trump, in other words, those with short-sighted perspectives, do not understand what it means.
TO from NYC:
Hey you anonymous Wall Street champion. You question how the US became rich as if the US was a person. By the US what you probably mean is the Olygarchs that are on their way to own everything in the US including the future of everyone not part of their group. This is the clear return to Feudalism including the ownership of the lives of the 99.9% of the population which to you are only serfs.
The US you refer to is going to benefit from this TPP is certainly not me or my vanishing peers from the middle class, and certainly not the poor driven into misery.
En several other countries not ruled yet by crooks, such as Germany or Sweden the middle class does much better. In my last trip to Sweden (paid with credit card) the people there who had been in NYC expressed their sorry toward Americans such as the New Yorkers who have to work everyday in a Subways which are almost garbage thanks to the economic policies dictated by Wall Street.
Hey you anonymous Wall Street champion. You question how the US became rich as if the US was a person. By the US what you probably mean is the Olygarchs that are on their way to own everything in the US including the future of everyone not part of their group. This is the clear return to Feudalism including the ownership of the lives of the 99.9% of the population which to you are only serfs.
The US you refer to is going to benefit from this TPP is certainly not me or my vanishing peers from the middle class, and certainly not the poor driven into misery.
En several other countries not ruled yet by crooks, such as Germany or Sweden the middle class does much better. In my last trip to Sweden (paid with credit card) the people there who had been in NYC expressed their sorry toward Americans such as the New Yorkers who have to work everyday in a Subways which are almost garbage thanks to the economic policies dictated by Wall Street.
2
"For a day, however, President Obama could celebrate a potentially legacy-making achievement"
A red flag to a bull for Republicans if ever there was one.
A red flag to a bull for Republicans if ever there was one.
Technology and trade have always preceded prosperity. The people who oppose trade are usually the people who oppose technology, because in their view jobs will be lost. Instead of focusing on the negative consequence of trade and technology, think forward. Education is the way. One can argue that if you are poor then it is impossible to prioritize for school. But that is an excuse, even as higher education is more and more expensive, and even as professionals today must think hard about what skills will truly help them stay competitive tomorrow.
If the US writes the rules well, and has great follow-through, the trade partnership should serve our world well. The US will provide leadership for a better world through soft powers, through trade and technology sharing and diplomacy, as opposed to warmongering and passively letting bad nations act freely with their own rule-setting. All the while maintaining creditable deterrence with reasonably-sized military.
Have empathy for the poor, be firm on preparing for tomorrow, and oppose evil forces that abuse politics and capitalism.
If the US writes the rules well, and has great follow-through, the trade partnership should serve our world well. The US will provide leadership for a better world through soft powers, through trade and technology sharing and diplomacy, as opposed to warmongering and passively letting bad nations act freely with their own rule-setting. All the while maintaining creditable deterrence with reasonably-sized military.
Have empathy for the poor, be firm on preparing for tomorrow, and oppose evil forces that abuse politics and capitalism.
It has taken decades, but I think we are nearing a tipping point wherein people are finally beginning to realize that the entire "system" is corrupt and illegitimate. The way this bad TPP deal passed, and the way it is being sold by the corporate press is just one more manifestation of this reality.
I argue that the second stage in this "awakening" is to realize that appealing to to the reasonableness of those in power (corporate cartels and their lackeys in government and media) is and will remain an exercise in futility. To get a real sense of what I mean, Google and watch a video by George Carlin, titled "The American Dream."
Solution: People are going to have to engage in participatory democracy (at the local level). Actively and purposely withdraw your support from corporate chains (buy from locally-owned businesses only, or as much as possible). Organize community groups to address local issues, anything from forming non-profit real estate co-ops to fight gentrification, to local investment co-ops to support local businesses. Local food production; tiny houses for the homeless.
Don't subject yourself to the weaponized corporate media propaganda, and especially don't watch corporate TV news.
Bottom line, you and I (the people) are going to have to sidestep these corrupt institutions by working together in each community, locally. I'm working on some initiatives in the SF Bay Area along these lines... And it goes without saying, make sure to vote for Bernie!
I argue that the second stage in this "awakening" is to realize that appealing to to the reasonableness of those in power (corporate cartels and their lackeys in government and media) is and will remain an exercise in futility. To get a real sense of what I mean, Google and watch a video by George Carlin, titled "The American Dream."
Solution: People are going to have to engage in participatory democracy (at the local level). Actively and purposely withdraw your support from corporate chains (buy from locally-owned businesses only, or as much as possible). Organize community groups to address local issues, anything from forming non-profit real estate co-ops to fight gentrification, to local investment co-ops to support local businesses. Local food production; tiny houses for the homeless.
Don't subject yourself to the weaponized corporate media propaganda, and especially don't watch corporate TV news.
Bottom line, you and I (the people) are going to have to sidestep these corrupt institutions by working together in each community, locally. I'm working on some initiatives in the SF Bay Area along these lines... And it goes without saying, make sure to vote for Bernie!
18
How is a trade group relevant without World's largest exporter? NYT just answered it:
"[TPP would] offer a counter to China’s economic power."
This is a political organization, not a economic trade organization.
"[TPP would] offer a counter to China’s economic power."
This is a political organization, not a economic trade organization.
5
When were corporations declared to have the "right" to profits? Where is that "right" in the Amendments? And why, if the people do NOT want the product, or want to regulate it because it is unsafe, or unhealthy, or imposes social costs, should we pay the corporations for the profits they forgo?
The idea that corporations have a holy claim on profit, and no responsibilities to anyone at all--not the people who use products, not the communities or nations in which they operate, not the working people who make their profits possible, not to anyone at all--is an immoral, unworkable, insane idea.
The success of the wealth class in making that idea seem reasonable, making that idea the basis for deals like the TPP and others, their success in buying politicians worldwide to sell out their own people, will be brief. For this will come to no good end. Not for anyone at all.
The idea that corporations have a holy claim on profit, and no responsibilities to anyone at all--not the people who use products, not the communities or nations in which they operate, not the working people who make their profits possible, not to anyone at all--is an immoral, unworkable, insane idea.
The success of the wealth class in making that idea seem reasonable, making that idea the basis for deals like the TPP and others, their success in buying politicians worldwide to sell out their own people, will be brief. For this will come to no good end. Not for anyone at all.
11
Does anyone wonder what the correlation might be between the TPP and the Sustainable Development Agenda?
If the TPP does allow corporations to sue to enforce its provisions, it should be defeated. Multinationals already have way too much power.
17
So how can the paper of record have an opinion on the TPP without having had the chance to examine the document in full? We are told snippets of this and that , the document will do this but not this-- I'm sorry but a this point in the game that has zero resonance of truth with this reader... Point me to the deal Jeeves or the position should be simple no Deal.
20
Our capitalism is out of control, the two party system has betrayed US, and the only chance of reform lies with people like Bernie Sanders. And if he doesn't do it, people like Fidel and Che will inevitably arrive with more drastic solutions.
22
Overall, this seems to me a sensible step toward eliminating trade barriers and improving our balance sheet.
Will it firmly touch every base? I'm sure it won't. It's a negotiated agreement and you give as you get.
But as someone who's had his books placed on the Internet for download, I'll be especially interested in the intellectual property protections.
Will it firmly touch every base? I'm sure it won't. It's a negotiated agreement and you give as you get.
But as someone who's had his books placed on the Internet for download, I'll be especially interested in the intellectual property protections.
2
There's been constant rumors over the last year or more that the TPP agreement would lead to much greater use of foreign workers in the US.
Will it? I would not be surprised, since there's been a worldwide trend among the elite and their representatives that people should have the same rights to flow here and there just as capital does. We heard a lot about that new right in recent news about the mix of economic migrants and refugees headed for Europe.
For myself, I cannot imagine any gains to be made over making goods ever so slightly cheaper in the US can possibly make up for the crushing burden the additional importation of millions and millions of new foreign workers will place on American workers and taxpayers.
If so-called American businesses do better but will not lower the cost of their goods to us -- which we know they will not -- and end up hiring fewer Americans, not more, because of it -- this bill deserves to be killed dead in our Congress.
It has sounded like a fantasy agreement for the 1% for a long time.
Is anybody out there going to bet that the rumors have all been wrong?
Will it? I would not be surprised, since there's been a worldwide trend among the elite and their representatives that people should have the same rights to flow here and there just as capital does. We heard a lot about that new right in recent news about the mix of economic migrants and refugees headed for Europe.
For myself, I cannot imagine any gains to be made over making goods ever so slightly cheaper in the US can possibly make up for the crushing burden the additional importation of millions and millions of new foreign workers will place on American workers and taxpayers.
If so-called American businesses do better but will not lower the cost of their goods to us -- which we know they will not -- and end up hiring fewer Americans, not more, because of it -- this bill deserves to be killed dead in our Congress.
It has sounded like a fantasy agreement for the 1% for a long time.
Is anybody out there going to bet that the rumors have all been wrong?
10
You may be thinking of the TISA.
1
Widespread distrust of untested, unlabeled agricultural products could spur increased local, organic or near organic agricultural production. Local already seems to be gaining support.
7
"Local" is pretty much 100% untested.
1
TPP another example of the Invisible Government at work. We, the citizens are the herd, the so-called elite (whatever it means), lead the rest of us according to their interests.
13
While I am not a Donald Trump supporter by any means, he was correct in labeling NAFTA as a disaster for the U.S.A. While estimates vary, between 350,000 and 700,000 jobs were lost in the U.S. due to NAFTA. In short, NAFTA has been extremely detrimental to working class Americans; however, the Trans-Pacific Partnership will be catastrophic to working class Americans. Now is the time to elect a president who supports American workers like Bernie Sanders and make unions strong again in the U.S.A.
21
We have become serfs on our own land, paying to the manor lords for our mortgage and insurance, credit debts and energy. What they can't get directly from us they use the government, which was once designed to protect us from tyrants, to take in taxes and give back to the wealthy in grants and incentives. The system needs to change if we are to benefit from the future of technology, otherwise we will become the victims of wealth centered progress.
12
Bad day at Black Rock.
2
The GOP dominated congress went ahead and gave a green light to the deal. That was a sign enough that the deal is really really bad for most Americans. Let us make sure that this deal never ever materialize.
7
As an outside vendor I saw how Nafta played out in a couple local factories, one in particular I will talk about. First, this factory rounded up all the employees and told them to take pay concessions and they would invest in a major upgrade at the factory and NOT go to Mexico.. The employee's took the concessions and new equipment and machinery started rolling into the factory. I made a comment to plant maintenance supervisor that with this major investment the factory would be here for many years to come. He looked at me with a cold hard stare and said the roof of the building still leaked and not a dime was invested in the plant structure or parking lot and that every bit of new machinery came in on a flat bed and could just as easily leave the same way it all came! Within a year the plant was shuttered and all the new equipment and jobs were loaded up and sent to Mexico! I saw the faces of the factory worker's that were lied to and have known of three that gave up and committed suicide! This is the true grapes of wrath many productive and skilled factory workers have had to face since George HW Bush and Bill Clinton, both I consider to be traitors, destroyed millions of factory jobs!
24
How can a large trade agreement be called a success if it is negotiated without public input and if it is directed towards the exclusion of one of the major Asian-Pacific nations?
I also object to the TPP because it fixes in place the dollar as the international trade and action currency rather than an international currency such as expanded Special Drawing Rights or even better a Tierra currency proposed in Verhagen 2012 “The Tierra Solution: Resolving the climate crisis through monetary transformation” the conceptual, institutional, ethical and strategic dimensions of which are updated at www.timun.net.
I also object to the TPP because it fixes in place the dollar as the international trade and action currency rather than an international currency such as expanded Special Drawing Rights or even better a Tierra currency proposed in Verhagen 2012 “The Tierra Solution: Resolving the climate crisis through monetary transformation” the conceptual, institutional, ethical and strategic dimensions of which are updated at www.timun.net.
5
Global corporations are people my friends.
12
Our global corporate overlords assure us that this deal is all good with no possible downside.
11
In general, Barack Obama has been a good President, but the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal is a bad deal for American workers, although it probably mostly benefits the wealthy 1% who tend to be the ones destroying our economy.
Probably, the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal is one of the worst things President Obama has done.
I can only hope that Congress somehow prevents the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal , and instead focuses on things that will actually benefit the USA, such as enhancing infrastructure, reducing our military budget, and raising the taxes of the wealthy.
Of course, Congress is incompetent and will support the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal, do nothing for our infrastructure, and will lower the taxes of the wealthy while raising the taxes of the middle class and raise the costs of the poor.
What we really need is to elect Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren as President.
Probably, the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal is one of the worst things President Obama has done.
I can only hope that Congress somehow prevents the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal , and instead focuses on things that will actually benefit the USA, such as enhancing infrastructure, reducing our military budget, and raising the taxes of the wealthy.
Of course, Congress is incompetent and will support the Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal, do nothing for our infrastructure, and will lower the taxes of the wealthy while raising the taxes of the middle class and raise the costs of the poor.
What we really need is to elect Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren as President.
16
The test for Congress at the end of the day must be whether the US will be better off with this agreement than without it. As with the Iran deal, it is certainly arguable that it could have been/should have been better than it is, in this case for certain businesses, unions, the environment or --- well, pick your interest. Those representing each (and others) will be able to point, often quite accurately, to provisions effecting their particular concerns that could have been much better addressed. But that theoretical, better-negotiated deal is not on the table and won't be any time soon: The decision is yes or no to what is on the table.
I don't see how this can be anything but bad news for American Workers. We are already down 3/4 of a Million jobs to Mexico and Canada. Our Film industry is in ruins thanks to cheaper rates in Canada. And the Trade Deficit with our NAFTA partners is in the Billions! How can anybody say this is a good thing for America?
8
Open to the proposal. Us in Canada need trade. However so were the First Nations some time ago. Didn't turn out well for them.
First blush, the auto and dairy industries in North America are not happy.
First blush, the auto and dairy industries in North America are not happy.
Another victory for consumers, another loss for workers. If our politicians believed that their fates were tied to workers rather than owners America would invest in education and infrastructure rather than wars and prisons.
4
Another MAJOR accomplishment from a president and administration that have played a very long and effective game of re-al politik. Iran, climate change accord and now TTP, Obama continues to build one of the most impressive presidential legacies of all-time. No doubt, if a GOP president had accomplished half as much, they'd be putting him on Mt. Rushmore right NOW. Well done, sir, well done indeed.
2
As long as he accomplished it, it counts I guess. Well, once he is out of office another president can be blamed for the failures occuring from these "accomplishments".
(I'm guessing you were mildly fecetious in your comment?)
(I'm guessing you were mildly fecetious in your comment?)
You Americans should be pleased: most of the countries involved are commodies exporters, therefore this is a laughable trade agreement mainly because there's no China, India, and South Korea, heavy wight exporters. Like in most battle, you Americans, count on a win-win situation You have Australia and New Zealand exporting wool, lamb, and minerals; Peru and Chile likewise, and so are Brunei, Vietnam, and Malaysia... Of course, there's Mexico, but Trump is going to take care of that.
1
When will they ever stand up for average Americans and people of the world, rather than the Plutocrats that they actually serve?
16
Yet another international trade deal that does not address the point of trade and commerce: making money, profits and if those profits are to be taxed on a level playing field. Profits should be taxed where they are earned - as measured by substance: sales, payroll, and real property. This is known a formulary apportionment. The playing field would be level if every state and country adopted unitary worldwide combined reporting - approved at the state level by the US Supreme Court three times (1983 and 1994). However the playing field is tilted at the state level with the water's edge combined reporting method which mirrors the federal system where just "reported" US profits are taxed..if any and worldwide profits are taxed only if and when foreign profits are repatriated to US parents via dividends. Foreign based corporations operating in the US get the best deal. The pre-tax US profits that they shift overseas are not subject to repatriation. As a result, our state and federal tax systems discriminate against US based corporations and favor foreign corporations. No wonder so many foreign corporations are operating in the US. No wonder why so many US corporations want to move to a foreign country via a tax inversion.
5
Improve the TPP by linking a second bill providing free two years of college or trade school to anyone who qualifies academically. This then will give our citizens who are negatively affected by the trade bill the opportunity to improve their skills and earnings.
3
We are giving the first two years of college or trade/technology education FREE at all community colleges in the state to all qualified high school graduates starting this year in Tennessee.
I'm strongly in favor of free trade, but free trade isn't something you get by having corporations and governments secretly negotiating deals. Now that the negotiators are done, can the US publish the entire proposed treaty, including who wanted each provision, and what they were offering in return?
8
Including of course a detailed list of grafts and bribes offered to particular congressmen and other government officials.
1
The TPP was hailed by The U.S. Chamber of Commerce. That's proof enough that it's a bad deal for American citizens.
22
As far as I'm concerned, the Chamber of Commerce has forfeited its privilege of putting "U.S." at the start of its name. It does not in any way represent the interests of our country. It is a front organization for a few huge multinational corporations whose only loyalty is to Big Money.
1
This trade pact has been under negotiation for 5 years and still neither the Congress nor the public knows the details. The late Senator Robert Kerr (D-OK) had an operating principle that he was automatically against any major agreement in which he was not informed from the very beginning. This is a wise policy for today's Congress.
TPP should not be ratified by this Congress. The next President and the next Congress can view it through fresh eyes. Our past experiences with NAFTA and similar trade deals strong suggest that close examination is appropriate when something of this importance is done in such secrecy.
TPP should not be ratified by this Congress. The next President and the next Congress can view it through fresh eyes. Our past experiences with NAFTA and similar trade deals strong suggest that close examination is appropriate when something of this importance is done in such secrecy.
12
So while Obama is claiming to be fighting against climate change and toward a less carbon-intensive future; he has been in dark back rooms drafting and negotiating his way to a deal which is going to cause billions and billions of additional pounds of co2 to be released once this agreement takes effect, and companies from Japan begin shipping useless things across multiple oceans to us instead of China.
The hypocrisy is blinding.
The hypocrisy is blinding.
14
What always amazes me about the "spin" surrounding trade agreements - NAFTA, TPP, it doesn't matter - is that we are asked to believe that the Agreement has been negotiated in such a way that ONLY the United States stands to benefit from the terms. Given the absolutely irrefutable evidence that the balance of trade inevitably tilts against the U.S. after a few years, doesn't the public ever want to understand why that happens? Time and again. TPP will be no different. The parts of the Agreement meant to benefit U.S. multinationals are implemented in "stages," and by the time they should be fully in force, our trading partners have contested them in one forum or another. Case in point: Korea still is blocking U.S. service industries from entering their home market, despite the FTA we have with them.
8
Look at the 10-20 comments that received the most reader picks. When the Times gave Ms. Calmes this story to cover, they knew that the article she would write would get this kind of reader response. They did not care that readers would be outraged. What does that say about corporate and banking influence on this newspaper?
21
It says far more about the commentators that demonstrate such certainty about how horrible it supposedly is despite not having seen it at all, simply because they have such tremendous biases that blind them.
It says all you need to know. There has been a media blackout about the Trans-Pacific Partnership, because they know they are raping the American people.
Look everyone! Now 12 'partners' will be shipping many needless items around the globe, many things which could be created locally or not at all, like the mountainous accumulation of plastics in our waterways and oceans!
Workers here will just have to be happy with their $10 per hour wages, with a possibility of moving to a whole $15 per hour in the future, while the vast migration of many good jobs is exported overseas. Imagine the many more hours of frustration when calling your credit card company only to reach an overseas operator, with a thick accent and reading to you from a script, barely able to discern what you are saying!
How lucky we are now that Obama has added yet one more thing to his 'legacy'!
Somehow though something does not make sense with the environment, as Obama crows 'let's address global climate change' while happily inviting Shell to drill in the Arctic and encouraging endless more ocean voyages so we can all unwrap more unnecessary plastic pieces of junk on Christmas day!
Mr. Obama, doesn’t all of that ocean traveling by multitudes of ships and shipments by rail create more greenhouse gases? What am I missing?
Workers here will just have to be happy with their $10 per hour wages, with a possibility of moving to a whole $15 per hour in the future, while the vast migration of many good jobs is exported overseas. Imagine the many more hours of frustration when calling your credit card company only to reach an overseas operator, with a thick accent and reading to you from a script, barely able to discern what you are saying!
How lucky we are now that Obama has added yet one more thing to his 'legacy'!
Somehow though something does not make sense with the environment, as Obama crows 'let's address global climate change' while happily inviting Shell to drill in the Arctic and encouraging endless more ocean voyages so we can all unwrap more unnecessary plastic pieces of junk on Christmas day!
Mr. Obama, doesn’t all of that ocean traveling by multitudes of ships and shipments by rail create more greenhouse gases? What am I missing?
17
The Iran treaty has provisions about UN inspections that are secret. That has been accepted so why complain, as commentators have, about parts of this treaty that are unknown? The President assures us it is good for the US. Isn't that enough?
3
I think it's misleading to assume that increasing the profits of American companies is an inherently good thing. We can guarantee that it brings more money into the US economy, but without stronger protections for workers, we can't guarantee that this money benefits anyone but the super-rich. The average American will not see this money "trickle-down" into his or her pocket.
10
I have spent over 40 years in Industry, & I have watched my market erode, especially light Industry, that used to be in the confines of the cities This type of Industry was labor intensive, most of it went to China & elsewhere this was tragic for those living in the inner cities that commuted to work.Most of these people found themselves, out of work & depended on welfare. I call this the great American Tragedy, & I blamed it on Nixon & Clinton, who opened up markets in Mexico, & China.These industries will never come back. Now President Obama seems to be following in the foot steps of Nixon & Clinton, but is he really? What I see is a Asian Nato, designed to compete with China, & create an alliance to stand up to an aggressive China that is pushing it's weight around in the Pacific Rim.Obama can't come out & say this,but why else would he be pushing for this deal, certainty he doesn't want to create more unemployment, especially among Minorities, who would appear to be hurt the most.He has been promised by some American Manufacturers that they will bring some jobs back to the United States, if he removes tariffs, but they are not about to increase their costs in a very competitive market, so whatever they produce here will be a mere spattering of what they produce overseas.
China Like Russia are serious threats to world peace, & this Pacific Deal is designed to show China that there is unity among the Pacific Rim countries that signed this Deal.
China Like Russia are serious threats to world peace, & this Pacific Deal is designed to show China that there is unity among the Pacific Rim countries that signed this Deal.
5
China and Russia are not threats to world peace, they are threats to world hegemony by the Western Empire. If they are such a threat, why are so many countries in Latin America so willing to take trade pacts with them? Because they feel threatened? Or because the trade is genuinely beneficial for them? We in the US and the other western nations cannot stand threats to our dominance, and that is why China and Russia are threats to world peace. Because we won't allow peace while they remain standing on their own legs.
1
CK
Up is down, & Black is White. The United States & Nato are villains, & the Dictatorships of China & Russia, are the Good Guys.Give me a break !
Up is down, & Black is White. The United States & Nato are villains, & the Dictatorships of China & Russia, are the Good Guys.Give me a break !
1
I only hope Congress doesn't allow itself to get roped into a meaningless vote as it did the Iran deal. The Senate needs to vote this down flat!
9
People need to be wary about looking at the job displacement effects of NAFTA and assuming TPP will be more of the same because there is an enormous difference: The Pacific Ocean.
Transplanting a link in your American supply chain to Mexico/Canada is not the same as transplanting it to Malaysia, Vietnam, Australia, Singapore, or Japan. Just look at a map.
The costs of changing processes for managing inbound materials supply, outbound goods distribution, quality control, delay risks, and everything else are magnified because of time, distance, and means (train/truck vs. plane/boat), but you still have to provide the same products under the same circumstances lest you lose your American business.
Curious what the experts think once the terms are released.
Transplanting a link in your American supply chain to Mexico/Canada is not the same as transplanting it to Malaysia, Vietnam, Australia, Singapore, or Japan. Just look at a map.
The costs of changing processes for managing inbound materials supply, outbound goods distribution, quality control, delay risks, and everything else are magnified because of time, distance, and means (train/truck vs. plane/boat), but you still have to provide the same products under the same circumstances lest you lose your American business.
Curious what the experts think once the terms are released.
1
They've already dine it many times over. In addition, I think China is also on the other side of the Pacific.
1
As a person with substantial previous experience of international trade agreements, I find much of this commentary truly astounding. I have only two points to make here: (1) All such agreements - forever - have been negotiated behind closed doors for very good reasons - in particular to not compromise the interests of the parties to the negotiations. Once the agreement is reached it becomes public. No harm is done because all the members need to ratify the whole text it before it becomes effective. (2) There will be literally hundreds of provisions in this agreement, and a great many of them will have qualifiers, implementation protocols and interpretations. No-one can assess either the detailed or the overall impact of such an agreement without having read the text in its entirety. As it is not yet available, no-one who hasn't been privy to the negotiations can speak with any authority about its merits.
Here in Canada we have an election in two weeks. The positioning has already started: the government party which negotiated the deal is of course in favour, the NDP is against it without knowing exactly what they are against, and the Liberal Party says it is disposed to free trade in general but wants to see the fine print before taking a position on this agreement. Good to see one of the three is objective and credible.
Here in Canada we have an election in two weeks. The positioning has already started: the government party which negotiated the deal is of course in favour, the NDP is against it without knowing exactly what they are against, and the Liberal Party says it is disposed to free trade in general but wants to see the fine print before taking a position on this agreement. Good to see one of the three is objective and credible.
54
Substantial experience in exploiting others? How does your predilection for the exploitation of humanity makes your opinions better for humanity?
3
A large fraction of the audience has preemptively decided that corporations are evil, that capitalism is evil, and that anything that might possibly be beneficial to them is inherently anti-worker and to be immediately rejected unseen.
Nice try! But you either have never understood what the negotiating process is actually all about, or your objective is deception. 99 percent of a "new" trade agreement is meant to reward multinationals who have already planted their flag in one or another of the signatories, and are ready to maximize their export profits. The other 1 percent relates to provisions that each signatory already knows are "contestable," but prefer to have corporate interests fight their battles in a multilateral tribunal, rather than in a political setting (i.e., how best to avoid scrutiny by the general public.)
I thought we already had trade deals with the big Asian traders (Japan, Korea & China) so why do we need more deals to eliminate tariffs and level the playing field. They we supposedly already eliminated. We were told the same lies when they sold out our other manufacturing sectors in those deals - remember opening the door to foreign steel, autos, textiles, shoes, furniture and on and on. One by one Democrats and Republicans have sold out the middle class with these horrible trade deals. Obama has lied about ACA, Iran, open government so why should we believe him on TPP? I don't.
5
This agreement has the same problems inherent in all trade liberalization agreements. It thinks that you don't have to work to buy stuff. It has no real protections for American workers, other than big business farmers. They falsely think that any protection is bad protection.
6
The globalization, "free trade" apologists are hawking their bromides telling we non-believers that all we need to do is believe in the magic of "free trade." The Trans-Pacific Partnership is anything but "free-trade." Like NAFTA before it, the TPP proponents argue in vagaries about benefits for the people, which stand in stark contrast to the real benefits of the moneyed interests, particularly the psychotic, gambling financial sector. If something has direct benefit to one population, and an amorphous, theoretical, or abstract benefit to everyone else, the proponents are advocating for the former, not the latter, no matter what balderdash they feed you. Those of us who believe in the nation-state know full-well that this agreement weakens the sovereignty of the people have a voice, and gives it to institutions that are fundamentally undemocratic.
10
It probably is an improvement over the situation as it exists now. We'll just have to see about the parts that supposedlly stop the Southeast Asian and Pacific countries from using child labor, or forcing harsh conditions and long hours on low-wage workers. At least they are showing good intention here. We'll see about actual enforcement, which will most likely (once again) not happen.
How about - for example - getting Vietnam to stop using poisonous chemicals that have been banned in the west in their fish farming operations? Anything about controlling agricultural runoffs that are creating the big Dead Zones in the S.Pacific & South China Sea? Bottom Trawling, with it's 80% by-catch rates that are clear-cutting an area of the ocean floor equal to the contiguous US every year?
Guess not (sigh).
OK, it's probably better than what they had before.
But, my God, that's an awfully low bar.
How about - for example - getting Vietnam to stop using poisonous chemicals that have been banned in the west in their fish farming operations? Anything about controlling agricultural runoffs that are creating the big Dead Zones in the S.Pacific & South China Sea? Bottom Trawling, with it's 80% by-catch rates that are clear-cutting an area of the ocean floor equal to the contiguous US every year?
Guess not (sigh).
OK, it's probably better than what they had before.
But, my God, that's an awfully low bar.
1
I agree Yogi-one except for the improvement part. Over regulation here is causing business to seek areas without regulation, for instance check out the environmental mess China has made with thier rare earth mining while causing the US Mountain Pass mining operation into bancruptcy for spending huge amonts to be environmentaly responsible.You are also correct about the problem of exploitation of human capitol by business as a way to reduce production costs, human beings working as slaves, for nothing, being held in bondage with no hope of escape ever. How can this be a good thing for anyone except those referred to as the 1%? I want to eliminate goods made from this type of exploitation, if I can't afford something and a slave made product is all thats available I simply will do without that product, I am not the only one with this mindset.
1
In a piece this morning on Politico.com, Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell expressed anger at a provision that would bar Big Tobacco from suing other countries that institute anti-smoking laws. He's also worked tirelessly at dismantling the Affordable Care Act.
Cigarettes for all, healthcare for none. I don't know about anyone else but it sure does make me proud to be 'Merican.
Cigarettes for all, healthcare for none. I don't know about anyone else but it sure does make me proud to be 'Merican.
12
There is simply NO excuse for the full text of this supposedly groundbreaking, yet utterly secret, deal to be kept from the publics in the countries involved. We elected those governments. Our tax dollars pay the investment fines that are allowed under trade deals like this. Without the full text, the announcement of the deal becomes a purely rhetorical, one-way set of promises and grand statements devoid of any truly meaningful and democratic political process. This is especially egregious in Canada, where the announcement comes 2 weeks before election with huge stakes, particularly on climate change. So folks, there is simply NOTHING to celebrate here, and if this resembles prior trade agreements at all, it is a give away of public money and political power to private interests - an extension of a global market with no serious rules to level playing fields on the environment and labor.
13
We need to support job growth in this country not ship more jobs offshore so Corporate America can increase its profits. 51% unemployment for African-American youths...outrageous to kill more jobs in this country when they are desperately needed. How many American workers have benefited with any of our past "partnership" deals? I vote NO, NO and NO. Thank you Bernie Sanders for speaking out against this and trying to protect the American workforce.
14
This sounds like a fairly good deal, although I'm weary about still not having any real protections against currency manipulation with regards to trade. The improved labor and environmental laws in the TPP members will improve living standards for all the member nations. Although, the TPP won't be fully legitimate until South Korea and more importantly, China also sign on, which seems like both countries will after taking a more wait-and-see approach to ensure the TPP is an abject failure from the beginning.
If the worries about currency manipulation can be addressed and there are safeguards in place that will keep domestic meat and produce prices from skyrocketing, then this sounds like it's off to a good start. Although as always, how it works in reality will be the real benchmark of success.
If the worries about currency manipulation can be addressed and there are safeguards in place that will keep domestic meat and produce prices from skyrocketing, then this sounds like it's off to a good start. Although as always, how it works in reality will be the real benchmark of success.
1
"Senator Orrin G. Hatch of Utah, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over trade, has threatened to withdraw his support for the accord if United States negotiators agree to loosening pharmaceutical industry protections"
It's just my wild guess, but I bet Senator Hatch has no such reservations regarding the loosening of auto industry protections. Because, you know, that just might benefit those union auto workers who are so danged uppity that they believe they have the right to a fair wage. Just who do they think they are? Hedge fund managers?
And this:
"The worker standards commit all parties to the International Labor Organization’s principles for collective bargaining, a minimum wage and safe workplaces, and against child labor, forced labor and excessive hours"
will never make it past Republicans no matter how weak and watered-down it is.
It's just my wild guess, but I bet Senator Hatch has no such reservations regarding the loosening of auto industry protections. Because, you know, that just might benefit those union auto workers who are so danged uppity that they believe they have the right to a fair wage. Just who do they think they are? Hedge fund managers?
And this:
"The worker standards commit all parties to the International Labor Organization’s principles for collective bargaining, a minimum wage and safe workplaces, and against child labor, forced labor and excessive hours"
will never make it past Republicans no matter how weak and watered-down it is.
5
Orin Hatch, the same guy who pushed through legislation that prevents any FDA testing of vitamins and supplements? That guy who takes money from those industries. Another one not to be trusted.
2
Yes and who is going to enforce all of the provisions on child labor, safety, minimum wage etc.? It will probly be voulentary or "on the honor system", we know that's always effective. (not)
2
There are any number of reasons why Supreme Court might decline to hear an appeal, and it is not a decision on the merits of that appeal. In this case, the Second Circuit made prosecutions more difficult, but it is unclear whether the enhanced burden that prosecutors face under that court's ruling will carry much weight in cases arising in the other federal circuits.
Within that circuit, the court's ruling is controlling; elsewhere, the ruling is authoritative, and if persuasive, its reasoning may be applied by those other circuits, but maybe not. Each Circuit Court jealously guards its own precedents, and lawyers trying cases and arguing appeals in those circuits would best be served by careful research to find analogous precedents within their respective circuits. The Second Circuit is a highly respected court, but no more so than its counterparts in the First, Third, or any of the other circuit courts of appeal.
Consequently, the defendants in the two cases at bar can celebrate their hard-earned victory, but just not too much. Grounds for sustaining insider trading convictions have been tightened, but federal prosecutors will make their cases the way they always have done so. Those guilty of insider trading under whatever standard a court applies will be punished accordingly.
Within that circuit, the court's ruling is controlling; elsewhere, the ruling is authoritative, and if persuasive, its reasoning may be applied by those other circuits, but maybe not. Each Circuit Court jealously guards its own precedents, and lawyers trying cases and arguing appeals in those circuits would best be served by careful research to find analogous precedents within their respective circuits. The Second Circuit is a highly respected court, but no more so than its counterparts in the First, Third, or any of the other circuit courts of appeal.
Consequently, the defendants in the two cases at bar can celebrate their hard-earned victory, but just not too much. Grounds for sustaining insider trading convictions have been tightened, but federal prosecutors will make their cases the way they always have done so. Those guilty of insider trading under whatever standard a court applies will be punished accordingly.
Trying to follow what your comment has to do with this proposed trade deal?
3
Just because third world countries have low wadges doesn't mean they aren't playing fair. If manufacturing jobs come back to America, the prices of America made goods would increase significantly. If you put a huge tariff on goods imported from third world countries then the prices of imported goods would also increase. American consumers end up losing their buying power. Sure, some Americans would be employed again but they wouldn't afford as many goods as they expect to in the end. In general, Americans buying power would just be lowered.
America should give up on salvaging low-skilled manufacturing jobs and focus on technology and innovation, which require investment in education and a change of societal culture. Low-skilled manufacturing jobs will be phased out in America no matter you like or not. America has one way out, that is to lead in the field of technology and innovation, and we have the resources to do it. The next generation of American workforce, the children, have to take academics seriously so that America can still lead in the future.
I said it once and I will say it again, low-skilled manufacturing jobs will be phased out in America. It's bad for some people but it's just the natural course of how economy involves. If you still count on politicians and CEOs to bring those jobs back to America, you are being delusional. It's time to adapt.
America should give up on salvaging low-skilled manufacturing jobs and focus on technology and innovation, which require investment in education and a change of societal culture. Low-skilled manufacturing jobs will be phased out in America no matter you like or not. America has one way out, that is to lead in the field of technology and innovation, and we have the resources to do it. The next generation of American workforce, the children, have to take academics seriously so that America can still lead in the future.
I said it once and I will say it again, low-skilled manufacturing jobs will be phased out in America. It's bad for some people but it's just the natural course of how economy involves. If you still count on politicians and CEOs to bring those jobs back to America, you are being delusional. It's time to adapt.
4
" American consumers would end up losing thier buying power" interesting because unemployed Americans buying power is zilch, and guess what we really don't need to be buying all the "stuff" we have anyway.
2
First, most Americans are actually employed. Second, among the unemployed Americans, most of them are just between jobs. There is a difference between temporary unemployment and long term employment. Even an temporarily unemployed person still has some buying power form savings account, support from family members and unemployment benefits. When you talked about having zero buying power, you were thinking about people who absolutely cannot hold a job, which is a rare case and usually suffer from mental disabilities.
It's like an unemployed or underemployed person can only afford to shop at dollar stores. Then manufacturing jobs come back and he thinks he can afford better items. However, the same stores are not dollar stores anymore and they only carry expensive products made in USA now. So he still ends up shopping at the old store paying more for the same stuff. Basically everyone is now paying more just because they can only shop goods made in USA by expensive labors.
That is clearly not a smart way to utilize resources. If the labor resource is cheap overseas, then utilize it to minimize the costs and maximize the output.
It's like an unemployed or underemployed person can only afford to shop at dollar stores. Then manufacturing jobs come back and he thinks he can afford better items. However, the same stores are not dollar stores anymore and they only carry expensive products made in USA now. So he still ends up shopping at the old store paying more for the same stuff. Basically everyone is now paying more just because they can only shop goods made in USA by expensive labors.
That is clearly not a smart way to utilize resources. If the labor resource is cheap overseas, then utilize it to minimize the costs and maximize the output.
I think the potentiality of this agreement to have a negative impact on jobs is overstated. It's an all too familiar tale that we have heard time and time again, that American jobs are leaving for other countries, but that is a reality that will come to pass with or without this agreement. What this agreement does seem to do is help our businesses by reducing obstacles in exporting their goods overseas. It saddens me that our country has become xenophobic and has lost confidence in our own ability to compete in the global marketplace.
30
Any suggestions on how the US can compete globally?
Every one of these so called Free Trade Agreements has seen a net loss of jobs---NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, GATT, etc. Why pray tell will this one be any different?
If this passes we can kiss 2 degrees Celsius warming goodbye.
Hey Obama, I'll make sure to tell my kids as they are eating the bark off of trees, that "at least he was better than the republicans".
Hey Obama, I'll make sure to tell my kids as they are eating the bark off of trees, that "at least he was better than the republicans".
14
I hope the GOP congress will hold multiple hearings to explain to the Americans people why this Trade pact is good for them, instead of wasting time and money on Planned Parenthood and Benghazi.
As for President Obama , well what can I say? The $800 Millions budgeted for his Presidential Library have to come from somewhere.
Why are the Democratic Administrations the ones that always sign Trade agreements? Clinton and now Obama? Can someone please explain this to me?
As for President Obama , well what can I say? The $800 Millions budgeted for his Presidential Library have to come from somewhere.
Why are the Democratic Administrations the ones that always sign Trade agreements? Clinton and now Obama? Can someone please explain this to me?
15
The deal is a victory for President Obama, who sees it as boosting economic growth, enhancing competitive industries and binding like-minded Pacific countries at a time when China—not a part of the bloc—is adopting a more assertive economic and military posture in the region.
But President Obama faces a steep challenge in the months ahead to win approval for the deal in a deeply divided Congress. Only a handful of Democrats support his trade policy, and Republican/Tea Party support is unpredictable in the 2016 election year, depending on the stance of presidential candidates and new leadership in the House. As it is, the deal can’t go to a vote before Congress until early next year.
But President Obama faces a steep challenge in the months ahead to win approval for the deal in a deeply divided Congress. Only a handful of Democrats support his trade policy, and Republican/Tea Party support is unpredictable in the 2016 election year, depending on the stance of presidential candidates and new leadership in the House. As it is, the deal can’t go to a vote before Congress until early next year.
2
Of the 11 member states, 5 are certainly part of the "West" (the US, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand), 3 are almost certainly part of the "West" (Chile, Mexico, Singapore). That leaves just Malaysia, Brunei, and Vietnam, which aren't part of the "West." But Malaysia is one of the most moderate Muslim state, Brunei is very small, and Vietnam, well, we owe a lot to Vietnam.
So how bad can an agreement be if its member are, on the whole, pretty decent?
So how bad can an agreement be if its member are, on the whole, pretty decent?
1
Although most of the concerns raised here are valid, I suggest everyone also take a longer view of the situation. The TPP shouldn't be evaluated against the status quo, which is certainly expected to change, but rather against the scenario in which the TPP is not signed. A lot of these Southeast Asian countries already have incredibly close economic ties with each other and China, which has made no secret of its desire to play the leading role in Asian politics and economics. Assuming the current trajectory, how competitive will the US be on the global stage and how would that affect the domestic work force? We should really be comparing a TPP future, a TPP-less future, and a possibly better alternative.
In the longer view we'll all be dead and our children will be saddled with a system which rewards only the already obscenely rich and which provides no jobs for the vast majority of people.
1
Republicans have worried about one-world government and the UN taking away U.S. sovereignty. Meanwhile this trade treaty does just that, elevating corporations above our own laws -- and the Republicans have no objections.
It would be unbelievable in a novel, but it is happening here in real life.
It would be unbelievable in a novel, but it is happening here in real life.
11
Ironic, isn't it, that the business Republicans and rich conservatives are creating out of their own economic self-interest that which the rest of the Republicans have always feared and despised.
1
"And tobacco companies would be excluded [from arbitration panels], to end the practice of using the panels to sue countries that pass antismoking laws."
similarly, WTO principles allow for nations to restrict international trade when there is scientific evidence that public health or safety is threatened, and even in cases where scientific evidence is not fully definitive, as long as domestic products and foreign products are treated in the same way.
australia should be really happy.
similarly, WTO principles allow for nations to restrict international trade when there is scientific evidence that public health or safety is threatened, and even in cases where scientific evidence is not fully definitive, as long as domestic products and foreign products are treated in the same way.
australia should be really happy.
Despite progressive fear mongering this deal will pass to the betterment of the United States economy and workers in all TPP countries.
1
The fact that the details of the TPP have been kept from the Public says it all. Australian Politicians could only see the details of the TPP if they signed a confidentiality agreement promising not divulge ANY details of the TPP for 4 YEARS after ratification as well as 4 YEARS even if it was not passed in our Parliament.
NO COUNTRY can change a single point now that the TPP has been signed and each country can now only vote to accept it or not.
The above facts alone tell me that the TPP is a bad deal for most.
NO COUNTRY can change a single point now that the TPP has been signed and each country can now only vote to accept it or not.
The above facts alone tell me that the TPP is a bad deal for most.
13
"The fact that the details of the TPP have been kept from the Public says it all."......It would have been pretty hard to keep the details from the public, as you claim, because until the negotiations were completed there weren't any details. Perhaps now that details are available you might want to read them.
I would hope the TPP includes provisions for no more hunting, torturing and killing of dolphins and other cetaceans by Japan.
4
How much is this "deal" going to cost working Americans? The one percent will get 99% of the benefit and the rest of us ca fight for the remaining 1%.
7
This is going to be an enormously complex deal that has taken years to negotiate and which few will ever read (including me) but that's not going to stop plenty of totally ignorant people (not to mention the paranoids) pontificating about its evils. At the end of the day with these enormously complex arrangements (as with arms control agreements) you're in the hands of the experts and given the size of the commercial universe covered in this deal there are going to be lots of them. So either you think a fairly competent Democratic administration is going to make a reasonably satisfactory job of negotiating the inevitable trade offs implicit in any such deal, and effectively defending the interests of US citizens, or you don't. From the comments below there are more knee jerks going on than in the chorus line at the Moulin Rouge.
2
Maybe the people wouldn't be "ignorant" if the deal wasn't being hidden from view by those who will benefit from it.
2
@Manuel Jimenez
San Francisco, California
Actually the full terms of the treaty will be published in full during the course of the next few months as congress debates it so you're either lying or under a simple misapprehension to start with. Will you read it? Far less understand it all? Of course not. So spare us the paranoid conspiracy theories because they belong in kindergarten not the real world.
San Francisco, California
Actually the full terms of the treaty will be published in full during the course of the next few months as congress debates it so you're either lying or under a simple misapprehension to start with. Will you read it? Far less understand it all? Of course not. So spare us the paranoid conspiracy theories because they belong in kindergarten not the real world.
1
It is not even available to read so that says alot in itself, and obviously you wouldn't take the time even to get a lose grasp of its content so away with you! And NO I don't trust the Experts!
Now that we have a deal, I expected to see more in the way of a summary and analysis of the principal provisions that were agreed to. The Qs & As in the accompanying story really do not address the substantive issues, and the hyperlink to a non-Times webpage was not particularly helpful. For something this important, I expected considerably more.
It would also have been nice to know what the American negotiating position was, and what concessions we had to make in order to have the deal acceptable to other counterparties. I anticipate that will be disclosed very soon, but it wasn't made available today. Consequently, I don't think that we're at the point where we can engage in meaningful discussion about where the deal takes us, assuming that Congress goes along with it.
As for those who objected to any sort of trade deal based upon experience with NAFTA, until we examined the deal in its entirety, we cannot arrive at an informed judgment about whether on balance the deal is good or bad for us. The biggest complaint about NAFTA was that it prompted or facilitated American companies to ship jobs overseas. Under the GATT, entire industries moved overseas, including consumer electronics, automobile manufacturing, and a wide range of consumer goods. Jobs were lost, but others were gained; but job-exporting companies prospered because American law provides incentives and tax advantages not available to foreign companies. Blame Congress allowing that to happen, not the deal.
It would also have been nice to know what the American negotiating position was, and what concessions we had to make in order to have the deal acceptable to other counterparties. I anticipate that will be disclosed very soon, but it wasn't made available today. Consequently, I don't think that we're at the point where we can engage in meaningful discussion about where the deal takes us, assuming that Congress goes along with it.
As for those who objected to any sort of trade deal based upon experience with NAFTA, until we examined the deal in its entirety, we cannot arrive at an informed judgment about whether on balance the deal is good or bad for us. The biggest complaint about NAFTA was that it prompted or facilitated American companies to ship jobs overseas. Under the GATT, entire industries moved overseas, including consumer electronics, automobile manufacturing, and a wide range of consumer goods. Jobs were lost, but others were gained; but job-exporting companies prospered because American law provides incentives and tax advantages not available to foreign companies. Blame Congress allowing that to happen, not the deal.
4
Reading your second paragraph I'm getting a bad case of DejaVu.
Question for President Obama:
Where do top secret binding agreements with foreign governments and global corporations that will effect the financial well being of 99% of the American populace into perpetuity fit into your promise of "transparent democracy"?
Where do top secret binding agreements with foreign governments and global corporations that will effect the financial well being of 99% of the American populace into perpetuity fit into your promise of "transparent democracy"?
24
John he is not dim it was a valid question, " the details will be published and the congress gets to vote on it", that almost sounds like sarcasm but I doubt it. Theres no transparency in this administration.
Why do I get the feeling that TPP is going to do the same thing to the rights and voices of American workers that Citizen's United has done to the rights and voices of American voters?
16
This makes me so angry. So very very angry. I voted twice for Obama because he was and is so much better than the alternative that there is no comparison, but we still get sold down the river.
Maybe Bernie. I think he's the only hope. He had better have really good security, though.
Maybe Bernie. I think he's the only hope. He had better have really good security, though.
21
Consider that Obama is not running for office again and that as a former President he will be able to make as much money as he wants writing books and giving lectures. No one has a hold over him, so why would he choose to do something that is not genuinely in the best interest of the country?
2
From whom do you think those huge speaking fees come?
6
W.A. Spitzer, the Clintons left the White House "dead broke" according to Hillary, BUT they got NAFTA into law and now they are multi millionaires. Obama just looking out for his future with the TPP, once the White House and Air Force One are gone. He like the Clintons likes the good life.
4
The TPP approval will be the final hammer blow that kills off the white collar jobs and assures obama of his deferred compensation agreement which will total over $1 Billion when it is all done. obama wants more than the $115 million the clintons have received under their agreement for passage of the WTO.
The is the "lynch" pin for the death of the middles class, local control of rules, regulations and laws for food labeling, drugs, bank fraud, zoning, labor, environment, safety and untold standards that have existed for generations.
The loss of Sovereignty will be catastrophic as control passes to the Tribunals appointed and paid for by major corporations.
The is the "lynch" pin for the death of the middles class, local control of rules, regulations and laws for food labeling, drugs, bank fraud, zoning, labor, environment, safety and untold standards that have existed for generations.
The loss of Sovereignty will be catastrophic as control passes to the Tribunals appointed and paid for by major corporations.
21
Obama should be ashamed. Only five to eight years "protection of patent" of medications needed by all humans?! If before those crooked corporations were allowed to squeeze every cent they could from the 330 million Americans, now they will squeeze 3 billion persons. That is ten time the market. The patents for medications needed by this 40% of the World population should not allowed to stand for more than two years which is equivalent to 20 years of squeezing all Americans.
8
If you're a company, why are you spending billions of dollars to research innovative new medicine just so your competitors can profit off of your hard (and expensive) work a year or two down the road for free?
The pharmaceutical industry is one of the only industries that actually needs (and deserves) patents that last for a long time.
The pharmaceutical industry is one of the only industries that actually needs (and deserves) patents that last for a long time.
1
To "AGuy" from Lower Manhattan (Wall Street):
It seems you did not understand my statement above. So I will try to explain it to you, again. Squeezing 3,000,000,000 persons with those drug patents for more than two or three years gives drug companies more profit, than what they get with the current 12 years exploitation of the 330,000,000 Americans. Whether or not you feel angry you cannot squeeze people for a long time or whether someone else, but you may benefit from a medication is a moral deficit called GREED.
It seems you did not understand my statement above. So I will try to explain it to you, again. Squeezing 3,000,000,000 persons with those drug patents for more than two or three years gives drug companies more profit, than what they get with the current 12 years exploitation of the 330,000,000 Americans. Whether or not you feel angry you cannot squeeze people for a long time or whether someone else, but you may benefit from a medication is a moral deficit called GREED.
1
Something is better than nothing. It's a travesty though that Canadians and Japanese still insist on tariffs on NZ diary and NZ beef.
2
If the terms are anything like what has been leaked out, corporations will be able top sue national governments to recover future potential income lost by the imposition of environmental, labor and other regulations. And the suits will be tried in extra-judicial corporate tribunals. This is yet another step to nations losing sovereignty to corporations. There used to be a name for corporatist government: fascism. This must be voted down.
For those with a more romantic view of the Boston Tea Party that triggered this country's independence, it started out as a revolt against one of the prototype transnational corporations, the East India Company. Time to go back to our roots.
For those with a more romantic view of the Boston Tea Party that triggered this country's independence, it started out as a revolt against one of the prototype transnational corporations, the East India Company. Time to go back to our roots.
14
It is true that, according to the terms of the agreement, corporations will be able to sue public entities for policies (e.g. regulation of tobacco sales) that negatively impact their profits. It's called Investor-State Dispute Resolution (I.S.D.S.)
And it's already happening, per similar terms in other trade agreements. Germany is being sued (for more than $4 billion) for trying to phase out nuclear energy, and Australia is being sued by tobacco interests for trying to restrict sales to minors.
And it's already happening, per similar terms in other trade agreements. Germany is being sued (for more than $4 billion) for trying to phase out nuclear energy, and Australia is being sued by tobacco interests for trying to restrict sales to minors.
3
"In a concession likely to be problematic with leading Republicans, the United States agreed that brand-name pharmaceutical companies would have a period shorter than the current 12 years to keep secret their data on producing so-called biologics,"
This speaks volumes about the true players in this deal. If this is considered a concession, it is obvious that this deal was argued from the best interest of US corporations. This is not a concession at all to most regular everyday Americans. It helps us by lowering the costs of drugs. The fact that this is a 'concession' says that the government is looking out for big pharma before sick Americans. 20 years later and I'm still waiting for that generic biologic insulin analogue (every single type produced in the past 20 years).... and it's perverse to see these changes come from an international trade partnership rather than internally.
This speaks volumes about the true players in this deal. If this is considered a concession, it is obvious that this deal was argued from the best interest of US corporations. This is not a concession at all to most regular everyday Americans. It helps us by lowering the costs of drugs. The fact that this is a 'concession' says that the government is looking out for big pharma before sick Americans. 20 years later and I'm still waiting for that generic biologic insulin analogue (every single type produced in the past 20 years).... and it's perverse to see these changes come from an international trade partnership rather than internally.
10
The bottom line which I really can't discern from the article is will there be more good paying jobs for Americans here in this country? Business being created here and less outsourcing of jobs, less relocation of businesses to other countries. If this isn't a benefit to our own people it shouldn't be ratified.
Our elected officials care more about emerging countries then our own sometimes it seems. NAFTA is a dismal failure for our people. I hope this won't be the same. If it doesn't benefit middle class America then I hope we walk away. Could we be doing worse then we are now?
Our elected officials care more about emerging countries then our own sometimes it seems. NAFTA is a dismal failure for our people. I hope this won't be the same. If it doesn't benefit middle class America then I hope we walk away. Could we be doing worse then we are now?
6
Is it constitutional for a U.S. president to take actions and support legislation that give corporations final authority over our laws and regulations?
15
I am deeply sorry I donated to Obama in the past. Up to present I have not been able to stop all donations yet, as some keep repeating every month even when I have requested their discontinuation since almost six months ago, but now I will just cancel those card accounts to put an end to the shameless abuse of Obama's machinery which keeps reaching into my pocket.
5
Government by the Corporations for the Corporations. We citizens and our elected representatives did not need to be involved, did not need to know what was being negotiated, because it is not about us. The big business moguls in each country are dividing up the pie, and the rules for eating the pie. We are the pie.
21
Yes we are and some of us are fighting battles on a community level that just happened to explode in time to get caught up in it or not be heard at all...I'm for our children,our families,and remember,down here it ain't just blood that is family,then for our country! They should pick on the salaries of the wealthy not the backbones that built this Country and still doing the legwork for the tycoons!what do you think is gonna happen when they pick us dry....yep,no longer the USA if we don't keep UNITED AND IN GOD!
Great! Can somebody now tell me where I can download a pdf of the entire agreement now that it has been finalized. Congress has 90 days to review it, I'd like to review it myself.
8
This is just sad. I will follow the congress people who vote for this and If any of my congresspersons vote for this, I will work religiously to make sure they are not re elected. I am a supporter of President Obama, but I part company with him on this trade deal.
On NAFTA, the deal was passed with majority of Republican votes, which Republcians will vote for this.
On NAFTA, the deal was passed with majority of Republican votes, which Republcians will vote for this.
2
Have you read the trade deal?
It doesn't help consumers of drugs, it does help the pharmaceutical industry, but it's US patients that need help. Fair pricing and the ordinary protections of patents, should be our goal, instead price gouging and lifetime patent protection for those high prices is what's in store for US. If I could think of just one Trade Agreement that helped US workers perhaps this TPP would be acceptable, but none has, and without any worker's voice in it why would this differ? We got sold out Big Time on this 'deal'.
7
Good bye American jobs. Good bye safety standards for products and food. Lawsuits dismissed by the corporations world court. The oligarchs win again and again. I am sad to my very core.
9
Nice about that "crackdown on wildlife trafficking," but what about the deleterious effect TPP will have on American jobs? Sure, we'll get flooded with even more wondrously cheap crap made in Asia--apparently, you cannot have too much of that--and Asia will get even more jobs that were formerly American, resulting in even more chronic unemployment, wage stagnation, poverty pockets, and ever-growing gulf between the haves and the haves-not, which is set to be Obama's legacy. This is not a deal that will favor the American middle class and working class. The only real winners will be the 1% global ruling class. It is a betrayal just like NAFTA was.
10
It should be automatic to question the fairness and enforcement of any trade deal concluded in the Pacific. Japan, in particular, taught the rest of Asia how to cheat in trade. Through through decades of currency manipulation, dumping of its products below cost of manufacturing, blockage of US made products through noxious rules, reverse engineering of heavy duty industrialized equipment, ignoring and stealing US patents, blocking US retailers and excessive protection of its home markets Japan hollowed US manufacturing and killed millions of US jobs.
China and South Korea adopted the Japan method - and the US continues the pay the price for, As Trumps notes , being screwed in negotiations. And for that matter why is South Korea not in the TPP? Do they continue to follow the Japan methodology? There is a engraved stone in Washington DC with these words: "The Past is Prologue." Congress will note that fact in scrupulously analyzing what we gain and lose from the TPP.
China and South Korea adopted the Japan method - and the US continues the pay the price for, As Trumps notes , being screwed in negotiations. And for that matter why is South Korea not in the TPP? Do they continue to follow the Japan methodology? There is a engraved stone in Washington DC with these words: "The Past is Prologue." Congress will note that fact in scrupulously analyzing what we gain and lose from the TPP.
4
Today, China celebrates.
They are watching as our armed forces get neutered in the Middle East, and we bend to their music in trade.
Meantime they get free trade, and our military is taken down a notch.
What a joy to be China it is today.
They are watching as our armed forces get neutered in the Middle East, and we bend to their music in trade.
Meantime they get free trade, and our military is taken down a notch.
What a joy to be China it is today.
2
Russia stepping in the Middle East is hardly a blow to the American military.
And how could china be celebrating if they're left out in the cold? With this new TPP, neighboring nations like Japan, Vietnam and Australia are motivated to transfer most if not all their businesses from china to other TPP member nations. china is SCARED TO DEATH of this recent news.
And how could china be celebrating if they're left out in the cold? With this new TPP, neighboring nations like Japan, Vietnam and Australia are motivated to transfer most if not all their businesses from china to other TPP member nations. china is SCARED TO DEATH of this recent news.
1
What does it have anything to do with China? China is not part of this treaty.
1
The super rich in Third World countries are far more ruthless than their counterparts in the US. That is one reason why they are dirt poor and why we have so many revolutions. I don't think we need to read the whole treaty to know that it is rigged. It is a very bad deal for the vast majority of Americans. Is it intended to keep China and India in check?!
For whatever reason it was decided to open the whole world to competition, the outcome is going to be disastrous for some countries and people.
The biggest loser is going to be the planet itself. welcome to the wild world, not the wild West anymore.
For whatever reason it was decided to open the whole world to competition, the outcome is going to be disastrous for some countries and people.
The biggest loser is going to be the planet itself. welcome to the wild world, not the wild West anymore.
4
As regards the Canadian level of imports, it should be remembered that Canada is the single largest source of imported oil to this country. The most significant "threat" for Canadian manufacturing imports is their single payer health care system, which is vastly more efficient than is the US's money driven medicine system. For example, when an auto is built in the US, health care costs add $1400 to its price. When built in Canada, only $400 is built into its price.
Thanks to all who have rallied and protested in the US and abroad against this deal, it is now somewhat better than it was three years ago. But it is unlikely to be adequate.
The inability to deal with currency manipulation, which Japan has been engaging in for decades upon decades, is IMO a deal breaker.
The fact that any corporation can sue and tie up every state and province in legal costs and expensive time is a deal breaker. Such suits are business as usual and delaying tactics for corporations. They are a massive reallocation of time and money for local and state govt., which means that they are unlikely to act in order to protect their citizens. Even when states, provinces and national govts. win the law suit, they lose because they never recover all their costs and lost time to deal with their constituents' needs.
Thanks to all who have rallied and protested in the US and abroad against this deal, it is now somewhat better than it was three years ago. But it is unlikely to be adequate.
The inability to deal with currency manipulation, which Japan has been engaging in for decades upon decades, is IMO a deal breaker.
The fact that any corporation can sue and tie up every state and province in legal costs and expensive time is a deal breaker. Such suits are business as usual and delaying tactics for corporations. They are a massive reallocation of time and money for local and state govt., which means that they are unlikely to act in order to protect their citizens. Even when states, provinces and national govts. win the law suit, they lose because they never recover all their costs and lost time to deal with their constituents' needs.
9
Questions for the Negotiators:
1. Which Rights/Privileges of American citizens are negotiated away (by this agreement)?
2. Which Rights/Privileges of American citizens are limited IN ANY WAY (by this agreement)?
3. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to produce (in the USA)?
4. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to market (ANYWHERE)?
5. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to export (to ANYWHERE)?
6. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made mandatory for America to "import" (To the USA or to ANY American interest anywhere)?
7. Under this agreement, what is an "American (USA)" product/good (is a product/good produced by an American (USA) company offshore considered to be an "American (USA)" product/good)?
Answers please!!!
www.ltgof.net
1. Which Rights/Privileges of American citizens are negotiated away (by this agreement)?
2. Which Rights/Privileges of American citizens are limited IN ANY WAY (by this agreement)?
3. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to produce (in the USA)?
4. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to market (ANYWHERE)?
5. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made "illegal" for Americans to export (to ANYWHERE)?
6. Under this agreement, which products/goods are made mandatory for America to "import" (To the USA or to ANY American interest anywhere)?
7. Under this agreement, what is an "American (USA)" product/good (is a product/good produced by an American (USA) company offshore considered to be an "American (USA)" product/good)?
Answers please!!!
www.ltgof.net
12
How's this for a start...under the Investor-State Dispute Resolution provisions found in most contemporary trade agreements (including the TPP), Australia is currently being sued by private interests for daring to regulate the sale of tobacco. Germany is also being sued by private entities for the tort of phasing out the use of nuclear energy.
btw the use of the term "tort", above, is ironic.
You just don't know these days.
btw the use of the term "tort", above, is ironic.
You just don't know these days.
2
We have been sold out again, so the richest can make a few more bucks, more of our jobs will be shipped overseas, those of us who still manage to hang on to our jobs will be left working longer hours for less pay to try to compete, As it played out with Nafta. All while the grinning dirtbags pat themselves on the back and tell us they did us a great favour.
Remember all the promises they made with Nafta? Remember them promising a "service based" economy to replace the manufacturing based one? Implying well paid skilled jobs are on the way. Remember they said it would increase quality of life and wealth for the middle class? Hows that working out for everyone?
My father raised a family of 6, owns a 4 bedroom home 2 cars, vacation every year and saved for retirement on ONE income an income from an average middle class job, he is not a hedge fund manager or a lawyer. These slimy trade agreements rob us of that possibility and TPP will only make it worse.
Remember all the promises they made with Nafta? Remember them promising a "service based" economy to replace the manufacturing based one? Implying well paid skilled jobs are on the way. Remember they said it would increase quality of life and wealth for the middle class? Hows that working out for everyone?
My father raised a family of 6, owns a 4 bedroom home 2 cars, vacation every year and saved for retirement on ONE income an income from an average middle class job, he is not a hedge fund manager or a lawyer. These slimy trade agreements rob us of that possibility and TPP will only make it worse.
27
You fail to note that the far left globalist socialists are in favor of these "free" trade deals that destroy American sovereignty just as much as the globalist corporatists are in favor of them. Radical environmental rule (back door Copenhagen treaty) that only apply to U.S., mandatory open borders in violation of U.S. immigration law, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. So there is much more to these pacts than just the corporatist side. They are terrible for many reasons.
2
"Mrs. Clinton, who as secretary of state promoted the trade talks, has expressed enough wariness as she has campaigned among unions and other audiences on the left that her support is now in doubt."
In other words, she made her usual waffling sounds. So typical of Clinton and a big part of the reason why she's losing support to Sanders, and why I won't be voting for her in the Democratic primary.
What's really puzzling though is that the Republican and Democratic establishments (and the press) wonder at the fact that Trump, Sanders, and the other outsiders are beating the establishment candidates. How can they not understand how Americans are suffering as they watch their good jobs and middle class lives exported to third world countries?
Mrs. Clinton, who with her husband made a mind boggling $100 million dollars in speaking fees from special interests in the last five years, may say they feel our pain, but they don't, really. The 0.1 percent is too well insulated from the struggles of ordinary Americans.
In other words, she made her usual waffling sounds. So typical of Clinton and a big part of the reason why she's losing support to Sanders, and why I won't be voting for her in the Democratic primary.
What's really puzzling though is that the Republican and Democratic establishments (and the press) wonder at the fact that Trump, Sanders, and the other outsiders are beating the establishment candidates. How can they not understand how Americans are suffering as they watch their good jobs and middle class lives exported to third world countries?
Mrs. Clinton, who with her husband made a mind boggling $100 million dollars in speaking fees from special interests in the last five years, may say they feel our pain, but they don't, really. The 0.1 percent is too well insulated from the struggles of ordinary Americans.
42
You forgot the mind boggling amount George W. Bush has made since he destroyed America and you forgot to mention $29 million ($7.0 million last year alone) Jeb Bush has made since leaving the Governorship of the Great State of Florida. Just following in the footsteps of their idol, Ronald Reagan, and their Dad, Poppy Bush.
3
Ya know I'm a Clinton fan from back in the Governor days,and fully support both,bc that's what it took to get them where they are and do what no others in the Whitehouse have done....get us out of debt and everything on the agenda,you don't think these two have eo backs your wrong! It's just Hillarrys time to take credit and show what the woman behind the man is all about!she's got my vote!
Steve, why do you suppose I'm defending the Republicans? Please note that I said I'd be voting in the Democratic, not the Republican, primary; the national Republicans are even more corrupt than the Democrats at this point. But the difference scarcely matters if both parties are going to continue exporting our jobs and prosperity to third world countries. I'm not going to vote for the party that denies global warming and a woman's right to control her own body. But at essence, both parties are rotten now.
This is absolutely the worst thing that could possibly happen. It appears that they're trying to augment some of the most awful things about the agreement, but either way, it's NAFTA on steroids. If you think we lost jobs then, just wait and see what this baby will do, being sold under the guise of stopping China from hampering trade. Well, this has nothing to do with trade, and everything to do with giving multi-national corporations absolute power over the governments of the countries that are part of this process. We might as well all realize that this is serfton.
23
Something like that,but I believe there's timing of alot going on.but your right about the 1world government and megacorps....I mean how much do you need?I hope its a plan to buy us outta debt and still stand as USA!but Greed is just to much for some to run from,tempting,and usually left unhappy if you don't learn to share or put in rightful place or make wrongs right!and I dropped to a smaller level,but same structures at the top!
"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Excerpt - Declaration of Independence - Thomas Jefferson, 1776
Excerpt - Declaration of Independence - Thomas Jefferson, 1776
11
Like the early reports that the Pope had blessed Kim Davis, this TPP biz makes me wonder about Obama who I have voted for twice & would gladly give a 3rd term in office if possible.
These stories about TPP in the NY Times flow by easily but don't have a lot of meat in them. " the A.F.L.-C.I.O. contends about 700,000 United States jobs have been lost or displaced because of NAFTA."
My city of 88,000 is still suffering from the loss to Mexico of our Whirlpool plant which once provided good jobs, remember good jobs....to my city. Not only did 6000 Whirlpool workers lose their jobs, but the feeder companies located here laid off all their workers, meaning we've lost at least 10 thousand good jobs. There's no good jobs to replace them...none & Rheem bought a big chunk of land in Mexico a few years ago & I doubt it was for a spa for crippled children. We'll be nearly dead if we lose Rheem.
Today the minimum wage in Mexico is about $4.80....not per hour, but PER DAY! Tell me how NAFTA has lifted all boats in Mexico. Low wage jobs are better than no jobs....but that's as positive as I can make it. The truth was stated in the comment above mine..."There is no way we can compete with the Chinese."
The Chinese aren't bad people, but their willing or forced to be happy making pennies per hour. We'll be forced to commit mass suicide if our wages are reduced to pennies per hour!
NAFTA is great for Oligarchs, never for US workers. I fear TPP will be the same! Tell us more!
These stories about TPP in the NY Times flow by easily but don't have a lot of meat in them. " the A.F.L.-C.I.O. contends about 700,000 United States jobs have been lost or displaced because of NAFTA."
My city of 88,000 is still suffering from the loss to Mexico of our Whirlpool plant which once provided good jobs, remember good jobs....to my city. Not only did 6000 Whirlpool workers lose their jobs, but the feeder companies located here laid off all their workers, meaning we've lost at least 10 thousand good jobs. There's no good jobs to replace them...none & Rheem bought a big chunk of land in Mexico a few years ago & I doubt it was for a spa for crippled children. We'll be nearly dead if we lose Rheem.
Today the minimum wage in Mexico is about $4.80....not per hour, but PER DAY! Tell me how NAFTA has lifted all boats in Mexico. Low wage jobs are better than no jobs....but that's as positive as I can make it. The truth was stated in the comment above mine..."There is no way we can compete with the Chinese."
The Chinese aren't bad people, but their willing or forced to be happy making pennies per hour. We'll be forced to commit mass suicide if our wages are reduced to pennies per hour!
NAFTA is great for Oligarchs, never for US workers. I fear TPP will be the same! Tell us more!
23
By chance, I was corresponding with a friend, an executive at one of the few remaining American consumer electronics manufacturers, this morning, and suggest a new product. Here, verbatim, is what he said:
"There is no way we can compete with the Chinese."
And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with this agreement. It's another step in the exportation of our industry and jobs and prosperity to countries in which workers are paid and treated like (and not infrequently are) slaves, in which the air is toxic and brown. It is a betrayal of the American worker, of all of us not CEOs or billionaires, and I am saddened and ashamed to see that the president for whom I voted twice has put his name to it.
"There is no way we can compete with the Chinese."
And that, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with this agreement. It's another step in the exportation of our industry and jobs and prosperity to countries in which workers are paid and treated like (and not infrequently are) slaves, in which the air is toxic and brown. It is a betrayal of the American worker, of all of us not CEOs or billionaires, and I am saddened and ashamed to see that the president for whom I voted twice has put his name to it.
25
"There is no way we can compete with the Chinese."....Does the trade agreement involve the Chinese?
2
Josh,
You opine that the TPP is " ...is a betrayal of the American worker..." and then switch gears and whine about China.
One, this is NOT a betrayal of the American Worker; this pact lowers the tariffs that block American jobs.
Secondly, you want change in regards to China? Get in line. That has NOTHING to do with the TPP
You opine that the TPP is " ...is a betrayal of the American worker..." and then switch gears and whine about China.
One, this is NOT a betrayal of the American Worker; this pact lowers the tariffs that block American jobs.
Secondly, you want change in regards to China? Get in line. That has NOTHING to do with the TPP
But this story is today - that is without the trade agreement. So how does that translate to being worse under this agreement that establishes some rules?
Sorry to be cynical on this. I just don't see how these free trade agreements as applied so far have helped the US grow high wage jobs. NAFTA did indeed elicit a sucking sound of industrial jobs to Mexico and in fact our deficits in trade to both Canada and Mexico increased. We are the world's larges trade debtor nation by far! Now we will have another free trade agreement with a broad array of low wage Asian and other countries. Just watch the remaining American industrial jobs vanish, leaving crappy service jobs with low wages and no future. And in terms of export tariffs removed from US good what goods do we produce anymore? Are we talking about old growth forests in Oregon? The wheat crop? After that we run out quickly except for airplanes which Boeing incidentally just announced will be assembled in China.
6
The exporting of jobs is already happening, as you point out. It was happening before NAFTA, it is happening now. It is what happens in free market economies. The labor will go to where it is cheapest. This will continue to happen with or without this agreement. However without the agreement, there will be no way for us to try and control the environmental or social impacts.
The US, the best economy in the world at the moment, has shifted to higher tech, higher educated jobs. Unfortunately we do lose some good paying jobs for people who are not able to switch to the jobs that are growing here.
My greater question to you is - what do you recommend? What is the solution? High tariffs, protectionism? force manufacturers to keep jobs here?
A sign of a good agreement is that no one is happy.
The US, the best economy in the world at the moment, has shifted to higher tech, higher educated jobs. Unfortunately we do lose some good paying jobs for people who are not able to switch to the jobs that are growing here.
My greater question to you is - what do you recommend? What is the solution? High tariffs, protectionism? force manufacturers to keep jobs here?
A sign of a good agreement is that no one is happy.
2
That's because you probably won't see it, but that isn't necessarily because it isn't there. It's because it's difficult to measure and it doesn't make for good news.
Hypothetically speaking, how would you "see" if GM opened a new research facility near its headquarters in Detroit and hired 100 well-paid scientists and engineers to research innovative new battery technology for use in its future electric vehicles, but GM was only able to do this since it knows it will save $18,000,000 over the next five years because NAFTA reduced the costs of doing business across the US-Mexico border so much so that GM can close a factory in Texas, killing 100 American manufacturing jobs, and open one in Mexico, creating 100 Mexican manufacturing jobs, to exploit lower property & labor costs while still maintaining the same level of supply chain efficiency?
I bet you'll hear about the 100 union jobs lost at the closed factory on the nightly news, especially if you live in Texas. It's very easy for them to cause a loud stir -- and they will.
I bet you won't hear about the 100 research jobs, which are of higher quality than the 100 manufacturing jobs and make the overall job change a net zero.
Plus Mexico gets 100 jobs and a new plant. That's good, but most Americans don't seem to care about creating good jobs elsewhere (though they believe it's wrong that people in foreign countries often live in such poor conditions...).
It's just a hypothetical, but this stuff is complicated.
Hypothetically speaking, how would you "see" if GM opened a new research facility near its headquarters in Detroit and hired 100 well-paid scientists and engineers to research innovative new battery technology for use in its future electric vehicles, but GM was only able to do this since it knows it will save $18,000,000 over the next five years because NAFTA reduced the costs of doing business across the US-Mexico border so much so that GM can close a factory in Texas, killing 100 American manufacturing jobs, and open one in Mexico, creating 100 Mexican manufacturing jobs, to exploit lower property & labor costs while still maintaining the same level of supply chain efficiency?
I bet you'll hear about the 100 union jobs lost at the closed factory on the nightly news, especially if you live in Texas. It's very easy for them to cause a loud stir -- and they will.
I bet you won't hear about the 100 research jobs, which are of higher quality than the 100 manufacturing jobs and make the overall job change a net zero.
Plus Mexico gets 100 jobs and a new plant. That's good, but most Americans don't seem to care about creating good jobs elsewhere (though they believe it's wrong that people in foreign countries often live in such poor conditions...).
It's just a hypothetical, but this stuff is complicated.
One underlying macroeconomic force that affects all others is that free trade leads to an expansion of GDP.
Everybody gets richer with more free trade. Everyone's economy grows.
However, free trade capitalism is very regressive in many regards, particularly towards the lowest-earners and people of color.
In my view, we should pry open markets as much as possible, and have as much free trade as possible, so that we expand global markets as much as possible.........
.......HOWEVER, only if these politicians then pass and enact laws that provide safety nets for those most negatively affected:
- Minimum wage increase
- Robust spending on safety net programs, as well as infrastructure
- Tax cuts for the lowest incomes
- Tax increases for the highest incomes (they get all the bounty)
- Tax increases for large, multinational corporations (they get all the bounty)
To summarize: globalized capitalism should be acceptable as long as there's a little dash of socialism mixed in there.
EG
Everybody gets richer with more free trade. Everyone's economy grows.
However, free trade capitalism is very regressive in many regards, particularly towards the lowest-earners and people of color.
In my view, we should pry open markets as much as possible, and have as much free trade as possible, so that we expand global markets as much as possible.........
.......HOWEVER, only if these politicians then pass and enact laws that provide safety nets for those most negatively affected:
- Minimum wage increase
- Robust spending on safety net programs, as well as infrastructure
- Tax cuts for the lowest incomes
- Tax increases for the highest incomes (they get all the bounty)
- Tax increases for large, multinational corporations (they get all the bounty)
To summarize: globalized capitalism should be acceptable as long as there's a little dash of socialism mixed in there.
EG
1
What makes you think that this has anything to do with trade? NAFTA claimed to be a trade agreement, but resulted in the loss of millions of jobs. You speak of socialism, well we already have socialism. Socialism for the ultra wealthy. We've had that for over 40 years now, with the gutting of regulations. We consistently subsidize big businesses meaning we pay the tab, but we're not the owners, so we're paying twice: First for R&D, and then second of a product, the we should own in the first place.
Every time i see a new bill to increase military spending that always has underlying monies going to multi-nationals, I just want to vomit. And then to add insult ot injury, they scream about more tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. And don't even get me started on the multi-national tax dodgers. I have to pay taxes. Tell me why doesn't GE?
Every time i see a new bill to increase military spending that always has underlying monies going to multi-nationals, I just want to vomit. And then to add insult ot injury, they scream about more tax cuts for the ultra wealthy. And don't even get me started on the multi-national tax dodgers. I have to pay taxes. Tell me why doesn't GE?
8
Every trade deal has been hyped as having the most environmental protections, but these protections have never been enforced (putting the US at a disadvantage, by the way).
9
It will be interesting to see how many rim jobs this creates.
4
The foreboding of mischief in this new trade deal is well justified IMO. In NAFTA, which had some things that were worthy, a little known side deal ended up destroying Central American agriculture. Apparently, we were able to keep our price supports for US Agribusiness, without any duties on our products, undercutting subsistence pricing in Central America. This left millions who depended on agriculture there in poverty and worse. Also costing US taxpayers more to subsidize profit for US Agribusiness without any value to US consumers which was the justification for the price supports in the first place. The Canadians wouldn't go for this and therefore never had the same problem. I try to keep up with the news but this was never reported in our press that I know of. Expect much worse from this new trade deal and you won't be disappointed. The devils are always in the details. And, in this case the details were written by the greediest and most selfish people on Earth. Corporations aren't in business to be altruistic. In case you were kept from knowing that fact, due to their misleading TV ads and their infiltration into our political institutions. They justify their ghastly behavior with the whole Ayn Randian, survival of the fittest rationale. But it's not the survival of the fittest. It's survival of the people born with the most advantages who then use that advantage to suppress everyone else. Our Forefathers came to the US to escape that.
8
Not that I am confident it will do any good, I'm writing my Representatives and Senators to oppose the deal.
5
Many people are expressing their concerns about the lack of transparency in the negotiations, but it does not seem that their complaints are realistic. The agreement by its nature has to be both large and complex with many interrelated terms. Involving the public in every aspect of the on-going negotiations would have caused nothing but chaos. An endless stream of demands and comments would have come from parties interested and non-interested, informed and uniformed, honest and dishonest. The result would have been interminable rounds of discussion and bickering accomplishing nothing. Now that the negotiations are over, Congress needs to do its job and determine if the deal in its entirety is in the best interest of the American people. Whether the decide to accept it or reject it, they need to explain in detail the basis of their decision.
48
"Involving the public in every aspect of the on-going negotiations would have caused nothing but chaos." Yes, better to let the corporate lawyers work out all the thousands of details without interference from the 99%. Democracy is, after all, so chaotic.
"an interesting stream of demands and comments would have come from parties interested and noninterested, informed and uninformed, honest and dishonest.", please clarify why involving People of this country (some who are not as dumb and uninterested as you imply) in the dialouge about this trade agreement would be a negative proposition, other than it needs to be passed as quickley as possible (like the ACA) so that the usual parties could benefit. I am not represented by anyone in this illegitamate government and many others aren't either
You omitted a small little detail that it's too late to change it, now. You can't let those ignorant 99% have their say, they just would mess up the works. Oh, democracy is supposed to be messy? Seems you forgot that; let's just grease the skids for the corporations, eh.
Two things:
1) US current account (trade balance) for the latest available year (2014) according to the World Bank was $ - 389,525,000,000. UK was second closest in the negative with us at $ -173,933,000,000. On the other hand, Germany was (positive) $290,327,000,000. What we do know is, there will be no offshoring of McDonalds or WalMart jobs since all parties to the treaty already have those.
What scares me most is, the entire Republican congress championed the fast tracking of this treaty. Think about that. The Republican party whose only goal for the last seven years has been to attack, discredit, obstruct, embarrass and impeach the President worked together, hand in hand, lockstep, with that communist, marxist, anti-Christ, unAmerican, dictator Kenyan socialist to get this passed. The Republican party would never, ever allow Obama to do anything remotely helpful for the American people, ever, under any circumstance. Nor would they allow him to achieve any signature, positive "legacy." But they were all in for this treaty - no fight, no badgering, no government shutdown, not even a whimper. Just the opposite. That tells me everything I need to know about this agreement.
1) US current account (trade balance) for the latest available year (2014) according to the World Bank was $ - 389,525,000,000. UK was second closest in the negative with us at $ -173,933,000,000. On the other hand, Germany was (positive) $290,327,000,000. What we do know is, there will be no offshoring of McDonalds or WalMart jobs since all parties to the treaty already have those.
What scares me most is, the entire Republican congress championed the fast tracking of this treaty. Think about that. The Republican party whose only goal for the last seven years has been to attack, discredit, obstruct, embarrass and impeach the President worked together, hand in hand, lockstep, with that communist, marxist, anti-Christ, unAmerican, dictator Kenyan socialist to get this passed. The Republican party would never, ever allow Obama to do anything remotely helpful for the American people, ever, under any circumstance. Nor would they allow him to achieve any signature, positive "legacy." But they were all in for this treaty - no fight, no badgering, no government shutdown, not even a whimper. Just the opposite. That tells me everything I need to know about this agreement.
9
All I read was this bill is dead. It does not matter all the concessions from all sides, in the end Congress will not approve it. It is nice this bill has so many precautions in it and attempts to set a higher bar in countries where human rights issues more prevalent, but when talking about passage in the US, it appears to be a dead issue. The only thing that will get passed from Congress are three short notes: 1) N 2) O 3) GT*O
1
And now without Boehner, getting this deal through the House with Nancy Pelosi's opposition will be very interesting indeed. Obama was very boneheaded to force it through for Fast Track without Democratic consent. I guess he realizes he now gets to see what it is like dealing with newly stoked flame throwers as teammates. I would rather have Boehner's old job. I hope all involved in approving this debacle have a great time with their new bedmates.
1
If this passes, then I will move ever more closely to my community as regards what I and my pets eat. There are ways around buying stuff that isn't labelled. Buy local, stay local, grow your own. This is A Global Oligarchy in the making which will embrace the entire planet. Look for future and faster degradations of sensitive environments, people and cultures. This indeed will be seen by historians and any survivors on this planet as the last ditch effort to wrangle profit at all and any costs. My question? When the planet has been completely raped and pillaged of all it has to offer, where then will the 1% go?
9
This encapsulates everything that is wrong with our political system, passing a trade agreement against the wishes of the majority. Exhibit 2 - preserving gun laws that are opposed by the majority.
I often ask young people what type of political system they live in, and while most of them answer democracy, they all say that their vote makes no difference and the political system is controlled by rich and powerful people. I then tell them that that's an oligarchy. What a perfect example.
I often ask young people what type of political system they live in, and while most of them answer democracy, they all say that their vote makes no difference and the political system is controlled by rich and powerful people. I then tell them that that's an oligarchy. What a perfect example.
11
This bill is evil and undermines democracy.
Not only was it negotiated largely by lobbyists, in secret, the Congress has voluntarily surrendered it's proper place of public hearings and oversight by fast track or Trade Promotion Authority.
Little of the text is about free trade or , more importantly, fair trade. Mostly it is a back door wish list of stuff corporate America wants that is incapable of passing even our corrupt Congress by the light of day.
Investor-State dispute language will be used to undermine local, state and national laws, rules, ordinances, zoning, contracting guidelines and such by kangaroo arbitration chaired by corporate lawyers- not in courts of law.
No reasonable person objects to fair trade, but this secret gift to the NeoLiberals will continue to drive down wages and export jobs from this country. It is not in the interest of the majority of Americans or even a significant minority.
Finally, not that the Republicans granted President Obama Trade Promotion Authority for this bad bill while opposing him on everything else.
I smell a rat.
Not only was it negotiated largely by lobbyists, in secret, the Congress has voluntarily surrendered it's proper place of public hearings and oversight by fast track or Trade Promotion Authority.
Little of the text is about free trade or , more importantly, fair trade. Mostly it is a back door wish list of stuff corporate America wants that is incapable of passing even our corrupt Congress by the light of day.
Investor-State dispute language will be used to undermine local, state and national laws, rules, ordinances, zoning, contracting guidelines and such by kangaroo arbitration chaired by corporate lawyers- not in courts of law.
No reasonable person objects to fair trade, but this secret gift to the NeoLiberals will continue to drive down wages and export jobs from this country. It is not in the interest of the majority of Americans or even a significant minority.
Finally, not that the Republicans granted President Obama Trade Promotion Authority for this bad bill while opposing him on everything else.
I smell a rat.
28
"Not only was it negotiated largely by lobbyists, in secret, the Congress has voluntarily surrendered it's proper place of public hearings and oversight by fast track or Trade Promotion Authority."....How can you possibly know it is a bad deal until you read it?
Without yet having the full text of the deal published, it looks good to me. Export tariffs are removed from US goods seems to level the playing field. However, there should, indeed, but some sort of provision to prevent currency manipulation.
1
Take a look at today's market reaction to see who's really going to benefit from this deal.
17
Yep. My little portfolio is up for a change.
1
All you have to know about whether this is good for the American worker is this.....The agreement was negotiated in absolute secrecy. However some details have been leaked. Here's a good one.. A foreign corporation could sue the U.S. government for compensation if any regulation (federal, state or local) results in loss of "expected future profits."
How;s that for a nice one. It also prohibits labeling the country of origin for meat products. Seriously? Imagine not being able to know where you meat comes from?
How;s that for a nice one. It also prohibits labeling the country of origin for meat products. Seriously? Imagine not being able to know where you meat comes from?
17
@Art
"A foreign corporation could sue the U.S. government for compensation if any regulation (federal, state or local) results in loss of "expected future profits."
How;s that for a nice one. It also prohibits labeling the country of origin for meat products. Seriously? Imagine not being able to know where you meat comes from?"
I think Obama has lost his mind.
"A foreign corporation could sue the U.S. government for compensation if any regulation (federal, state or local) results in loss of "expected future profits."
How;s that for a nice one. It also prohibits labeling the country of origin for meat products. Seriously? Imagine not being able to know where you meat comes from?"
I think Obama has lost his mind.
Krugman on TPP: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/tpp-at-the-nabe/
He's agin, and the expert.
He's agin, and the expert.
1
This should be very good news for the west coast, which is where the ports are located that the cargo ships that will move most of these American imports & exports will use.
Imported finished good. Exported raw materials, scrap metal, and factory equipment being relocated from US factories. Good news!
3
Vancouver BC is booming already but there is lots of port space. Seattle has some too.
1
We all know how NAFTA and the WTO worked out for this country.
13
This is an interesting ethical and philosophical dilemma. It is most certainly true that the net effect of this agreement on the American middle and blue collar class is likely to be negative (which begs it's own discussion about the failure of our education system to graduate people with skills needed by the information economy). Yet, almost as certainly, it will have a net positive effect on the poor in the Asian rim countries. And if it is anything like NAFTA, the net-net effect from the global perspective will be positive - in terms of more people leaving the abject poverty to join the global middle class. So is the life of a poor Asian person in Thailand any less valuable than the blue collar worker in Fresno? Many progressives who are fuming at this deal are basically saying just that. In other words, we are theoretically FOR helping poor people globally, but if that means lowering our standards of living, we are against it? Isn't that at least a bit hypocritical when placed against the typical progressive platform? or are we only ok with helping if it involves foreign aid, vaccines, and other "Acceptable" methods?
2
The reason that it affects US citizens negatively is not that we can't compete skill wise, it's that we don't want to work for five dollars a day. We spent 150 years building the highest standard of living in the world, but then the super rich and the politicians they own spent the next fifty forcing us to compete head to head with countries that have no labor our environmental standards.
It doesn't have to be like this. We could be using the buying power we have as leverage to increase standards around the world, but that wouldn't make the billionaires rich enough.
It doesn't have to be like this. We could be using the buying power we have as leverage to increase standards around the world, but that wouldn't make the billionaires rich enough.
128
Yes, Vizitei Yuri, we are destroying our dream of a democracy. As any new idea it was not perfect from the beginning but we were working to improve it. With this agreement we go back to the the system our Founding Fathers ran away from. I hope something could be done to stop it. But the big corporations having all the money in the world, and the power of the church on their side have finally reached the control they so much craved.
1
I'd rather see us put pressure on other economies by imposing import tariffs on goods from locations where labor and environmental protections are not comparable to or better than ours. That's the sort of thing these treaties try to discourage, of course.
1
Bottom line: More American jobs and factories will be off shored if this passes Congress. Another bullet in the body of America's dwindling working and middle classes brought to you by same nation traitors that brought you NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO, etc. This is a treaty by, for and of the banksters, crapitalists and fingerciers, the 0.1% who rule most of the world by buying and selling the politicians like sacks of rotten potatoes. Interestingly enough the international humanitarian organization Doctors Without Borders is solidily against this atrocity. One DWB member called it "both a job killer in America and a people killer in Asia." What he is referring to is the provision that Big Pharma got in this obscenity of an agreement that will end most generic medicines now used to treat poor people in the countries of the Far East. Then only outrageously priced "name brand" medicines would be on the market there and out of reach for most of the poor peasants who currently are able to afford these medicine to treat all kinds of exotic diseases like AIDS, cholera, malaria, yellow fever, leprosy, etc. Thousands of innocent Asians will perish and thousands of others suffer grievously under the terms of the so called Trans Pacific Trade Partnership Agreement. The White Collar Mafia are indifferent to the loss of millions more manufacturing jobs and declining standards of living in the U.S. and also totally indifferent to the suffering and deaths of thousands of Asians as well. True evil!
19
Toxic unlabeled Chinese food for you and your pet is on it's way; as dropping Country of origin from food labels was a key Chinese demand. Not counting the millions of US jobs that were just sacrificed. Every Senator that voted for this was given millions from it's corporate supporters. Obama and McConnell demonstrated bipartisan corruption is alive and well in the US.
24
Please everyone: contact your congressmen to share your opposition of this deal.
28
I did.
1
But have you read it?
I love how the article mentions that Ford Motor Co opposes the agreement on grounds of exposure of the dollar to currency manipulation (Since when is Ford an authority on finance and fiscal policy?), and then, in the next paragraph, mentions that the deal would phase out American tariffs imposed on Japanese cars sold in the US.
Gee, I wonder why Ford would oppose the deal? ;)
Gee, I wonder why Ford would oppose the deal? ;)
3
I would really love to know what happened to Obama's promise of full government transparency.
This is NOT what we were promised in 2008: http://youtu.be/CU0m6Rxm9vU
Where's the online data regarding the TPP?!
This is NOT what we were promised in 2008: http://youtu.be/CU0m6Rxm9vU
Where's the online data regarding the TPP?!
11
Obviously Senator Hatch gets his pharma deliveries at lower cost than the rest of us. It is interesting that "takers" such as Shkreli can use a monopoly on certain drugs to drain the resources of the rest of us. Congress needs to act against this terrible feature.
5
It's not the time to focus on policies that enhance the wealth of the 1%, Wall Streeters and the multi-national corporate class.
It's time we enact public policies and programs that bust-up that obscene wealth gap where 1% of the population owns 80% of America's wealth.
It's time to make America more fair, equal and productive.
It's time to enact public policies based on big ideas that cause real systematic change for the common good - think FDR (Social Security), Truman (the GI Bill), JFK (civil rights) and LBJ (the War on Poverty).
The best strategy address America's Banana Republic wealth gap problem and rebuild an affluent middle class: Defeat the Obama/Clinton Trans-Pacific Partnership, support Bernie Sanders for President and support efforts to elect a democratic congress.
Don't be fooled: Hillary Clinton worked for this trade agreement. While working on it she called it the "gold standard for international trade agreements." Why do you think the multi-national corporate interests are pouring tens of millions into her election.
It's time we enact public policies and programs that bust-up that obscene wealth gap where 1% of the population owns 80% of America's wealth.
It's time to make America more fair, equal and productive.
It's time to enact public policies based on big ideas that cause real systematic change for the common good - think FDR (Social Security), Truman (the GI Bill), JFK (civil rights) and LBJ (the War on Poverty).
The best strategy address America's Banana Republic wealth gap problem and rebuild an affluent middle class: Defeat the Obama/Clinton Trans-Pacific Partnership, support Bernie Sanders for President and support efforts to elect a democratic congress.
Don't be fooled: Hillary Clinton worked for this trade agreement. While working on it she called it the "gold standard for international trade agreements." Why do you think the multi-national corporate interests are pouring tens of millions into her election.
11
The death of the union, working people and living wages, Clinton, Bush, Carson, Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, Kasich, Jindal, Paul, Graham, Huckabee, Christie, Gilmore, Pataki, Santorum and who knows about Trump, couldn't have done better. Washington can party like the 1880s-1890s.
4
You left out Sanders - and for good reason. Sanders has been on working people's side since the 1970's without focus groups to tell him what to say.
I'm voting for Sanders if I have to write him in.
I'm voting for Sanders if I have to write him in.
7
This will result in even more American jobs being exported to Asia. Is this in our best interests? I have never heard of a deal where Asian jobs are exported to America.
Any legislator who supports this engages in treason. There's an election in a year. Throw this traitorous bunch out.
Any legislator who supports this engages in treason. There's an election in a year. Throw this traitorous bunch out.
12
Thoughts...
Historians, economists and sociologists will point to the period from 1945 to 1980 as being the high water mark of the American middle and working classes as well as being an aberration in America's social and economic history.
White working class voters have hosted themselves on their own petards. They have gotten what they have voted for ever since Nixon played the race card following the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts.
It is conservative antipathy towards the socializing of the working class that is killing it. Beginning with the 1890's corporation attacks on workers, often aided by government use of police, national guards and regular military forces, this enmity continued with the opposition to the relief programs of the New Deal through the cachet given union busting by Ronald Reagan to the job killing of NAFTA ( yes, I know: Bill Clinton. In no way was Clinton a
progressive.).
Conservatives have been both squeezing the working class economically as well as exploiting its fears and hopes socially while all the while giving the banker/coupon-cutting class carte blanche.
One World indeed...
Historians, economists and sociologists will point to the period from 1945 to 1980 as being the high water mark of the American middle and working classes as well as being an aberration in America's social and economic history.
White working class voters have hosted themselves on their own petards. They have gotten what they have voted for ever since Nixon played the race card following the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts.
It is conservative antipathy towards the socializing of the working class that is killing it. Beginning with the 1890's corporation attacks on workers, often aided by government use of police, national guards and regular military forces, this enmity continued with the opposition to the relief programs of the New Deal through the cachet given union busting by Ronald Reagan to the job killing of NAFTA ( yes, I know: Bill Clinton. In no way was Clinton a
progressive.).
Conservatives have been both squeezing the working class economically as well as exploiting its fears and hopes socially while all the while giving the banker/coupon-cutting class carte blanche.
One World indeed...
7
We’re relying on Australia to protect us against big-pharma companies.
If only we could write to our Australian congress representative to voice agreement on that opposition.
Instead we only have our corrupt US-Congress representatives to write to, beholding to the lobbies as they are.
If only we could write to our Australian congress representative to voice agreement on that opposition.
Instead we only have our corrupt US-Congress representatives to write to, beholding to the lobbies as they are.
10
I would like to hear an open discussion of the TTP provision that allows corporations to sue sovereign nations over regulations that they deem harmful to their profit margins, such as off-shore drilling restrictions.
11
You mean, like a discussion of Investor-State Dispute Resolution (I.S.D.S.) provisions, which are currently being used by private entities to sue the pants off of the governments of Australia and Germany for the crimes of restricting tobacco sales to minors (the former) and moving away from nuclear energy in response to the Fukushima disaster (the latter)?
Yeah, it would be nice to see a discussion of that sort of thing.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/trade-agreement-troubles
Yeah, it would be nice to see a discussion of that sort of thing.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/22/trade-agreement-troubles
How did the NYT write this article?
No one really knows what's in the agreement, since it's been kept secret.
Maybe I missed the disclaimer in the article from the NYT whereby it states that, although it is reporting on the agreement, it has not read the agreement.
No one really knows what's in the agreement, since it's been kept secret.
Maybe I missed the disclaimer in the article from the NYT whereby it states that, although it is reporting on the agreement, it has not read the agreement.
11
Leaked text is all over the internet. Its not hard to find.
1
The people who work at the Times went to good schools and don't need to see the Agreement to know it's good. It was co-written by fellow alumni.
Also, please tug your forelock in deference the next time you direct a query at your betters.
Also, please tug your forelock in deference the next time you direct a query at your betters.
In the United States we, the People, do not need ever cheaper goods. We need an economy and international agreements that protect Americans from having their jobs exported to foreign workers and laws and agreements that protect Americans from pharmaceuticals and food produced without FDA oversight.
We, the American people, do not need a globalized supply chain that has lowest common denominator regulations of mining, manufacturing, safety, worker rights, and environmental protection.
We, the American people, need agreements that serve not only US agricultural interests (5% of Americans are engaged in farming) and multinational corporations, but all of us with the ability to redress grievances in US courts under US laws.
Above all, we need a functional US Federal government "of the People, by the People, and for the People."
We, the American people, do not need a globalized supply chain that has lowest common denominator regulations of mining, manufacturing, safety, worker rights, and environmental protection.
We, the American people, need agreements that serve not only US agricultural interests (5% of Americans are engaged in farming) and multinational corporations, but all of us with the ability to redress grievances in US courts under US laws.
Above all, we need a functional US Federal government "of the People, by the People, and for the People."
36
Well said!!!
1
You can criticize The TPP , which is more of NAFTA. Results will be devastating for USA middle class.
That is True, most likely the effects will be same as last 30 years economical changes.
But the real hypocrisy here, being against TPP but actually not really have any plan to rise again Middle class, in fact leave the slow and excruciatingly painful death of Middle class.
What actually both party and people in that sense have any plan fro Middle class, other than go and write app for Apple and be a startup, get millionaire is this the solution, so far I didn't here anything more than this.
Religiously capitalist American business and corporates and financial sector with the support of the majority of American people considers any improvement in Middle class or poor people life is a unforgivable sin of Socialism.
So be it.
TPP is the only way forward in capitalism at this moment, because there is no other venue remained to get money from, we need new places without rules.
This is a run down economy, which means we exploit all possibilities in utmost level, left behind a dead carcass.
If you do not believe , go and see with your eyes the Detroit, Camden, Oakland etc.
That is True, most likely the effects will be same as last 30 years economical changes.
But the real hypocrisy here, being against TPP but actually not really have any plan to rise again Middle class, in fact leave the slow and excruciatingly painful death of Middle class.
What actually both party and people in that sense have any plan fro Middle class, other than go and write app for Apple and be a startup, get millionaire is this the solution, so far I didn't here anything more than this.
Religiously capitalist American business and corporates and financial sector with the support of the majority of American people considers any improvement in Middle class or poor people life is a unforgivable sin of Socialism.
So be it.
TPP is the only way forward in capitalism at this moment, because there is no other venue remained to get money from, we need new places without rules.
This is a run down economy, which means we exploit all possibilities in utmost level, left behind a dead carcass.
If you do not believe , go and see with your eyes the Detroit, Camden, Oakland etc.
8
Let's get to basics. Is Obama a member of or captive of some sub rosa party that we don't know about? For his entire presidency he has certainly not been any kind of Democrat I know, have heard of or voted for. Is he just trying to beat the Clinton's $100,000,000 post President take?
The TPP has never been in the public interest unless you're living on the stock market. It will do zip for the public working/middle class in any of the 11 countries. It will surely make stockholders richer if they stay away from purely domestic American companies.
The system is so damaged that nothing seems available but replacement. Perhaps that's why the BushCheneyCIA club became so private mercenary oriented. Because we have lost every battle since WW II they may not be able to count on the quality of our military.
Our first try at a minority leader finds serious, consistent failure in deed, consistent falsehood in promises. Unless Sanders is the candidate, I and many I know will abstain even if we know he probably cannot make enough repairs to the system to make it function.
The American who thinks is in a rowboat watching the Titanic of our times.
The TPP has never been in the public interest unless you're living on the stock market. It will do zip for the public working/middle class in any of the 11 countries. It will surely make stockholders richer if they stay away from purely domestic American companies.
The system is so damaged that nothing seems available but replacement. Perhaps that's why the BushCheneyCIA club became so private mercenary oriented. Because we have lost every battle since WW II they may not be able to count on the quality of our military.
Our first try at a minority leader finds serious, consistent failure in deed, consistent falsehood in promises. Unless Sanders is the candidate, I and many I know will abstain even if we know he probably cannot make enough repairs to the system to make it function.
The American who thinks is in a rowboat watching the Titanic of our times.
20
Reading some of the comments, I see a lot of easy assumptions that it will help only the richest while harming everyone else, and not a whole lot of evidence backing it up. The argument, "well, NAFTA destroyed the middle class" is also an oversimplification. TPP is not NAFTA, and correlation and causation are two different things. The American auto industry, for example, had been in decline since the mid 70s. There is no one reason why it declined, but union overreach was definitely one of them. NAFTA was not the root cause.
Where free trade actually is accomplished- without the distortions of subsidies or tariffs by either side- it leads to the most efficient solution to the provision of goods. Using fewer resources to produce a product is good for everything, is it not? If a person's job is threatened by a low-skill worker in Vietnam, perhaps the problem is that the American does not really have marketable skills- an argument for better education, not for more protectionism. To all those who immediately cry out against the pact- why not wait to see what labor and environmental protections the TPP has and then evaluate the deal, rather than just being implacably opposed to something the contents of which you don't even really know?
Where free trade actually is accomplished- without the distortions of subsidies or tariffs by either side- it leads to the most efficient solution to the provision of goods. Using fewer resources to produce a product is good for everything, is it not? If a person's job is threatened by a low-skill worker in Vietnam, perhaps the problem is that the American does not really have marketable skills- an argument for better education, not for more protectionism. To all those who immediately cry out against the pact- why not wait to see what labor and environmental protections the TPP has and then evaluate the deal, rather than just being implacably opposed to something the contents of which you don't even really know?
3
The agreement is secret...in a so-called democracy. You're speculating like everyone else, including the New York Times. None of us should have to speculate on something like this agreement.
2
Do you live in a cave? Haven't you been reading about American workers being forced to train the foreign counterparts because the job will be outsourced? The American worker is actually better trained than his replacement. So if your theory was correct, Jobs should be coming from overseas to here instead of the other way around.
This is EXACTLY like NAFTA. Why was this negotiated in secret, huh? Why was it illegal to even leak details of this agreement? If it's so great, the supporters should be screaming the details from the roofs instead of keeping it a secret. Sorry but you're really, really wrong on this.
This is EXACTLY like NAFTA. Why was this negotiated in secret, huh? Why was it illegal to even leak details of this agreement? If it's so great, the supporters should be screaming the details from the roofs instead of keeping it a secret. Sorry but you're really, really wrong on this.
2
Reading these comments, it appears a great many people think we should stop negotiating, end diplomacy, and just go to war with the rest of the world.
4
You really have to stretch things to say what you did. This agreement will be a disaster for the U.S. worker. One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
What do you have against keeping jobs in this country?
What do you have against keeping jobs in this country?
8
Get ready for that giant sucking sound part 2. We will soon be hearing the word localization from corporate America. This is code for outsourcing. The excuse will be it is cheaper to manufacture goods local to the market in which they are sold. Yet all of the other participants to this pact will continue to manufacture at home and export to the US thus building their middle class as our corporations continue to gut our middle class. This is a horrible deal for the American worker but great for the investor class.
42
"Senator Orrin G. Hatch of Utah, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, which has jurisdiction over trade, has threatened to withdraw his support for the accord if United States negotiators agree to loosening pharmaceutical industry protections against American law."
"Five large pharmaceutical companies and the industry’s trade group donated $172,500 to a charity founded by Sen. Orrin Hatch, their longtime ally in Congress, the Washington Times reported Monday."
Par.
"Five large pharmaceutical companies and the industry’s trade group donated $172,500 to a charity founded by Sen. Orrin Hatch, their longtime ally in Congress, the Washington Times reported Monday."
Par.
36
Hmmm? And yet the average Republican just doesn't see what is happening to them (us)
2
I'm against the influence of money on government via lobbying and campaign finance BUT, in this case, we are better off for having the protections Hatch is supporting. We ought to protect more sectors with regard to product quality and assurance of purity/regulatory compliance -- and one sector we cannot, as consumers, judge well upon inspection and *must* have quality assured by regulatory oversight - and therefore cannot trust many foreign governments - is pharma
The American middle class has been sold out by President Obama and the NY Times continues to be an apologist for this horrific knife-in-the-heart of the 99%.
Bernie Sanders 2016 !
Bernie Sanders 2016 !
81
I voted for him twice and I am deeply disappointed by this. However, I think McCain and Romney would have done the same. After all, this benefits the 1% and they are Republicans.
5
Most Americans have never visited a 'Banana republic'. Maybe the store at the mall but not an actual 3rd world country. They no longer will have to travel to a BR to experience the rampant poverty, desperation and environmental devastation, for very soon it will all be coming to them.
Welcome to Brazil everybody.
Welcome to Brazil everybody.
32
TTP is then on the way, having a first approval from the main countries on the Pacific.
The big US cheat at the damages of the Pacific countries is almost done, as follows.
Those countries will not have any more national food and products quality label, because those would make 'unfair competition' toward the US corporations selling the imitation of the original ones.
Moreover the corporation will have more power that the individual country laws, because those countries will have to sign a special clause, called 'Investor State Dispute Settlement (ISDS)' which allows the corporations to call in trial by the ISDS committee those States which for them damage their business, but not vice-versa. In addition, signing this clause, will be forbidden to report the supposed guilty by a National Court of Justice.
Furthermore, all the dealing and its content is secret and all MPs reading the text will have to sign a non disclosure declaration, so the all their people will know only later the real content of the treaty.
Democracy in those countries which will sign the TTP will not have therefore any more sense.
The markets, according the US rules only, will be the unconstrained drive in all the Pacific countries.
That's why I think that the Congress G.O.P driven will certainly approve the treaty.
What is surprising is the Mr Obama's U-Turn from the original liberal positions which led him to the Presidency.
The big US cheat at the damages of the Pacific countries is almost done, as follows.
Those countries will not have any more national food and products quality label, because those would make 'unfair competition' toward the US corporations selling the imitation of the original ones.
Moreover the corporation will have more power that the individual country laws, because those countries will have to sign a special clause, called 'Investor State Dispute Settlement (ISDS)' which allows the corporations to call in trial by the ISDS committee those States which for them damage their business, but not vice-versa. In addition, signing this clause, will be forbidden to report the supposed guilty by a National Court of Justice.
Furthermore, all the dealing and its content is secret and all MPs reading the text will have to sign a non disclosure declaration, so the all their people will know only later the real content of the treaty.
Democracy in those countries which will sign the TTP will not have therefore any more sense.
The markets, according the US rules only, will be the unconstrained drive in all the Pacific countries.
That's why I think that the Congress G.O.P driven will certainly approve the treaty.
What is surprising is the Mr Obama's U-Turn from the original liberal positions which led him to the Presidency.
7
The American politicians must understand that, if they want a trade agreement they have to compromise.
As for currencies and "devaluations", what's called sound fiscal policy when done in the west is called currency manipulation when done elsewhere. That's not fair.
As for currencies and "devaluations", what's called sound fiscal policy when done in the west is called currency manipulation when done elsewhere. That's not fair.
4
An adjacent article is entitled "Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal Explained."
Where specifically does one go to read this document in its entirety rather than having it condescendingly "explained" as if by some 16-th Century priest interpreting the Bible to his illiterate and ignorant peasant congregation?
Where specifically does one go to read this document in its entirety rather than having it condescendingly "explained" as if by some 16-th Century priest interpreting the Bible to his illiterate and ignorant peasant congregation?
28
Currency manipulation creates trade barriers. Our new trading partners will manipulate their currency making US goods more expensive without the need for overt barriers. Why did President Obama like this deal?
9
Because when it's all said and done. he is one of the 1%!
It is indeed laughable and betrays the ivory tower delusions of free market trade negotiators to illustrate the alleged benefits of this trade pack by mentioned Japanese barriers to American Automakers - in fact any American company can set up a any company or factory in Japan or export to Japan with practically no import duty (if they cared to make Right Hand drive cars) mean while in China, Vietnam, Thailand Indonesia all through Asia - local business elites are protected from "foreign" US competition, rip off the local customers, and behind protective barriers export to US and other first world economies....this Trade Pack primarily benefits the crony capitalists of Asia and will result in more offshoring of jobs.....
9
You want to believe this is good for America. You want to believe and trust President Obama. You want to believe that this truly helps the Pacific nations involved and ties them closer together.
And you can believe all of it. Its all true. It will be good for America, you can believe our President and this does help all nations and ties them closer together.............in the long term, after we have retired or maybe even passed on.
In the short term (our lifetime), it puts thousands of Americans out of work and only benefits corporations and the wealthy. Just the sad truth.
And you can believe all of it. Its all true. It will be good for America, you can believe our President and this does help all nations and ties them closer together.............in the long term, after we have retired or maybe even passed on.
In the short term (our lifetime), it puts thousands of Americans out of work and only benefits corporations and the wealthy. Just the sad truth.
8
Where is this hysteria coming from? I'm appalled that Times readers have fallen into the pit of "This is what I heard," and that president Obama's only purpose on this planet is to undermine the United States. I'm going to say the unsayable, apparently - I like this president. No, he didn't turn out to be FDR but he certainly doesn't deserve the constant stream of vitriol, condemnation, cruelty and hatred that people are spewing at him. I thought Times readers had brains - and heart. I was very, very wrong. This is most vicious bunch of people I've ever come across. No more reading or writing of comments for me. I don't do well in a den of vipers.
When your own government promotes a trade deal on the basis of its benefits for other countries...
Well.
Well.
28
The section on environmental "protection" tells you everything you need to know about this stinker of a trade deal: "On the environment, the accord has provisions against wildlife trafficking, illegal or unsustainable logging and fishing, and protections for a range of marine species and animals including elephants and rhinoceroses."
Not a single word about there being actual environmental protections like regulations on air and water pollution in the TPP. Why? Because there aren't any.
So the US will have lots of environmental laws preventing pollution and our "partners" in trade won't. Gee, I wonder where all of our jobs will go.....
Not a single word about there being actual environmental protections like regulations on air and water pollution in the TPP. Why? Because there aren't any.
So the US will have lots of environmental laws preventing pollution and our "partners" in trade won't. Gee, I wonder where all of our jobs will go.....
12
The US Government has gotten together with
'The Good Old Boys' and put this deal together.
This article makes it sound like this deal will help create new market horizons....
It will..., but not for American Workers.
'The Good Old Boys' and put this deal together.
This article makes it sound like this deal will help create new market horizons....
It will..., but not for American Workers.
7
The devil will absolutely be in the details.
If we can promote more free trade and possibly begin to curb the unquenchable greed of our own pharmaceutical industry, the good may outweigh the bad.
We will certainly hear histrionics from interests touched by the deal, let's weigh each on its own merit.
If we can promote more free trade and possibly begin to curb the unquenchable greed of our own pharmaceutical industry, the good may outweigh the bad.
We will certainly hear histrionics from interests touched by the deal, let's weigh each on its own merit.
2
This is one of those rare instances where, no matter how much I study the subject, I am really unsure how I would vote. I think that is because, as with most political agreements, there will definitely be unforeseen consequences. However, with highly complex issues that will, of necessity, change the very economic, social, and political environments which generate such agreements, those unforeseen consequences are likely to be of truly significant proportion and consequence.
Advocates and opponents speak in absolutes, of heaven and hell. It is best we all remember that "convincing" people -- especially in the current 24/7, media saturation, slogan environment -- what we are largely hearing are the expressions of marketing strategies. It is best if we make our decisions on the basis of what is said, not who says it, and go out of our way to read and listen to the more reputable sources of viewpoints we tend to disagree with.
And let us remember ten years from now, some prognosticators will turn out to have been right for no currently justified reasons and some will turn out to have been wrong with justified reasons.
Advocates and opponents speak in absolutes, of heaven and hell. It is best we all remember that "convincing" people -- especially in the current 24/7, media saturation, slogan environment -- what we are largely hearing are the expressions of marketing strategies. It is best if we make our decisions on the basis of what is said, not who says it, and go out of our way to read and listen to the more reputable sources of viewpoints we tend to disagree with.
And let us remember ten years from now, some prognosticators will turn out to have been right for no currently justified reasons and some will turn out to have been wrong with justified reasons.
4
A lot of commenters here seem to think that shutting the country off from the rest of the world will somehow lead to surge in jobs and bring all the old manufacturing home. But globalization has already done its work. And we gain a lot from these deals, both politically and economically.
It seems to me that instead of hunkering down and saying "no" to trade with the rest of the world, we should be looking ahead. What solutions will improve our lot? Other folks have already mentioned such things, but:
1. Infrastructure spending. There's so much work to be done here. What doesn't need to be improved needs to be built from scratch. The American Society of Civil Engineers reckons we need to spend $20 trillion on infrastructure by 2020. Imagine what could be done! But there's little passion for this kind of work. People would rather repeat slogans about corporations and the 1% than call for action on this unglamourous but essential work.
2. Education, worker training and public works. Let's do a new New Deal. It could support the infrastructure work.
3. I'll be excoriated for this, but: Lower corporate taxes and raise income taxes on the rich. Do you think corporations actually pay taxes? Either they dodge them or they factor them into the costs of their goods (meaning we pay them). Let's lower corporate taxes to make it easier for businesses to form and hire workers. Then, we'll capture that extra value when the profits are distributed to shareholders with the income tax.
It seems to me that instead of hunkering down and saying "no" to trade with the rest of the world, we should be looking ahead. What solutions will improve our lot? Other folks have already mentioned such things, but:
1. Infrastructure spending. There's so much work to be done here. What doesn't need to be improved needs to be built from scratch. The American Society of Civil Engineers reckons we need to spend $20 trillion on infrastructure by 2020. Imagine what could be done! But there's little passion for this kind of work. People would rather repeat slogans about corporations and the 1% than call for action on this unglamourous but essential work.
2. Education, worker training and public works. Let's do a new New Deal. It could support the infrastructure work.
3. I'll be excoriated for this, but: Lower corporate taxes and raise income taxes on the rich. Do you think corporations actually pay taxes? Either they dodge them or they factor them into the costs of their goods (meaning we pay them). Let's lower corporate taxes to make it easier for businesses to form and hire workers. Then, we'll capture that extra value when the profits are distributed to shareholders with the income tax.
5
The issue isn't trade, it's the conditions of trade. Not having a pact does not prevent the US from engaging in trade. And even if abandoning the TPP wouldn't bring back the old jobs it would prevent yet another "great sucking sound."
To suggest that there is little passion for infrastructure work and then claim the problem is people repeating slogans would be funny if it weren't so sad. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that the people advocating public spending (and not only on infrastructure repair) are the same people you deride and the forces opposing it are the 1% and the corporations.
To suggest that there is little passion for infrastructure work and then claim the problem is people repeating slogans would be funny if it weren't so sad. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that the people advocating public spending (and not only on infrastructure repair) are the same people you deride and the forces opposing it are the 1% and the corporations.
The main thing I noticed about your commentary is the fact that you claim that "we" gain a lot from these agreements; and you're from China.
That sound we just heard was the nail in the coffin of the middle class, brought to us by the Wall Street-owned Obama. The "most transparent president in history" did his utmost to keep the terms of this agreement secret. The next time we have an intelligent discussion about the corporate interests that rule this country, let us not forget that the Dems (Clinton and Obama) have done just as much to decimate the middle class as the Repubs have done.
39
Another reason why the "voting against their economic interests" argument against GOP voters does not resonate with me. The rich are the only ones that get to vote for their economic interests. They have two choices even!
6
It would be nice to see an article that lists and briefly explains specifically which tariffs the other countries have against the US. The most common perception of a tariff is that it exists to `even the field’ for countries with different pay scales, so as not to allow countries with extremely cheap labor to under-price their products for an unfair advantage over countries with a generally higher standard of living and fairer treatment of their less fortunate (read: poor) population. Since this article states that there are over 18,000 of them, obviously there are too many to cover in a news article, but a filtered and digested sampling would be very helpful for readers, so they (we) could have a better understanding of this deal, and how it would benefit our domestic businesses.
5
Trading is what they did in the 18th century. Today everybody competes in the same industrial products, and the lowest wage country wins. Should be called the Trans Pacific Wage and Job competition.
16
I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure this is not why I voted for Obama.
12
Our largest trade is with Canada and Mexico covered under
NAFTA. Whatever the benefits of the free trade have been
achieved under this 20 year old agreement. It is not clear what
additional benefits will be achieved under TPP. Does TPP
replace NAFTA or just another layer on top of it. These two
countries account for $1.2T out of total $1.6T total trade or 75%.
The only meaningful inclusion is Japan accounting for $200B
trade. May be we will be able to sell rice to them.
NAFTA. Whatever the benefits of the free trade have been
achieved under this 20 year old agreement. It is not clear what
additional benefits will be achieved under TPP. Does TPP
replace NAFTA or just another layer on top of it. These two
countries account for $1.2T out of total $1.6T total trade or 75%.
The only meaningful inclusion is Japan accounting for $200B
trade. May be we will be able to sell rice to them.
5
I do wish Obama worried less about his legacy and more about the legacy he leaves us.
24
Hypocrisy, anyone?
"Why is the promise of cheaper prices a good thing?... I rest easier knowing I'm contributing to a fair wage of an American, than a slave wage of a foreigner."
Here's a test:
Look down. Are you wearing shoes? Clothes? Where were they manufactured?
"Why is the promise of cheaper prices a good thing?... I rest easier knowing I'm contributing to a fair wage of an American, than a slave wage of a foreigner."
Here's a test:
Look down. Are you wearing shoes? Clothes? Where were they manufactured?
10
My shoes are made in America by New Balance which still manufactures some of its product in this country. Of course the bulk of their shoes appear to be made elsewhere.
1
Okay and my wardrobe is entirely American made besides an old collegiate sweatshirt. Clothes which aren't made from melted water bottles so they have a surprisingly long life. The clothing industry thrives on planned obsolescence which is wasteful and bad for the planet. And what's hypocritical to wish everyone in The US used the bulk of their spendings on products made within our borders? There is a reason I'm still using my grandfather's tools when I'm out in the shop; other tools are made with slave labor and are rendered useless shockingly fast.
"The bar is low, why raise it?"
Pardon me, but I didn't expect this to become a critical review of my attire. If you want me to inform you of the brands I shop so that you too may cloak yourself, and at a reasonable price, in American made garb, just let me know.
"The bar is low, why raise it?"
Pardon me, but I didn't expect this to become a critical review of my attire. If you want me to inform you of the brands I shop so that you too may cloak yourself, and at a reasonable price, in American made garb, just let me know.
Corporations get a vote and a seat for every decision like this. Apparently my voice doesn't concern my home senators (Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell) who decided to sell out our manufacturing economy to indentured servant masters in Vietnam.
Remember: the goal is not to improve but to equalize labor standards around the world. That means no unions, no sick leave, no vacation, no overtime, and no complaints!
Remember: the goal is not to improve but to equalize labor standards around the world. That means no unions, no sick leave, no vacation, no overtime, and no complaints!
55
You're not a "stakeholder."
3
We all are. If you think we aren't then you are clueless as to how things work.
To Art: The elitists who concocted this thing call their corporate sponsors "stakeholders," as if ordinary people have no stake in the outcome. My comment was meant to be ironic.
This means more corporate control and less democracy, that is if it can get any worse.
32
TPP. The final death knell for the dwindling American middle class that is already reeling from NAFTA and CAFTA. The middle class that is 1.2 Trillion dollars in educational debt and close to that with credit card debt. The middle class that no longer has union protections that our families died fighting for generations to achieve. The middle class that died fighting two wars to combat communism only to see our government sell us out to the highest bidder and open trade routes with communist countries that abuse human rights and environmental laws and will destroy ours. Congratulations. Anyone that votes for this bill or condones it should be deported.
39
Look for phrases like "ability to be nimble" and "globally competitive wages" linked to this agreement in the months to come.
They're just more markers on the spot where our middle class used to reside.
They're just more markers on the spot where our middle class used to reside.
31
If ratified, the US will be the only country to follow the provisions of this treaty. Everyone else will cheat.
28
Jonathan - you are SO correct! I cannot believe we are signing away the middle class (and formerly "about to be" middle class) in the United States of America to the likes of China, a repressive, centrally controlled, environmentally ruined country (among others of course, who operate nearly as egregiously as China or worse). This is devastation in the disguise of "business." It is the worst agreement ever forged in my lifetime. I fear for my children's and grandchildren's futures. They have been severely limited by the stroke of a pen held by a man who I believed would be one of our best Presidents ever. Words cannot express my disappointment.
I can only understand this trade agreement negotiated under conditions of secrecy from all but international business lobbyists as anti-democratic.
23
Why? Congress gets to vote yes or no on the final bill. That sounds democratic to me.
1
One commenter suggests the solution is to pull up the gang plank:
"SWe need retrenchment. ... The cure is a return to strong borders, sovereignty and the self-determination of organic peoples within their own territorial spaces."
Wow -- that sounds pretty good!
Sure, some might say what you're describing amounts to protectionism, but don't worry about such critics. Just tell them you're talking about "self-determination of organic peoples within their own territorial spaces," not protectionism. That will confuse them and they'll probably leave you alone.
"SWe need retrenchment. ... The cure is a return to strong borders, sovereignty and the self-determination of organic peoples within their own territorial spaces."
Wow -- that sounds pretty good!
Sure, some might say what you're describing amounts to protectionism, but don't worry about such critics. Just tell them you're talking about "self-determination of organic peoples within their own territorial spaces," not protectionism. That will confuse them and they'll probably leave you alone.
2
Great - more economic injustice, more corporate power.
20
Secrecy is killing Democracy. This is just the latest example.
19
Barack Obama teams up with the Republicans to sell the American public out to the corporations.
This moves the historical rating to "Poor".
We need to press each of the Presidential candidates for their detailed reaction to this.
Bernie Sanders 2016.
This moves the historical rating to "Poor".
We need to press each of the Presidential candidates for their detailed reaction to this.
Bernie Sanders 2016.
28
Tariffs?
Walmart, Bed Bath & Beyond, Banana Republic, and many other mega-chain stores appear to have a 'tariff' targeted against products manufactured in the USA. It would be nice to see congress address that sort of discrimination.
And the shoppers do not determine what is on the shelf of these stores - when the merchandise available is exclusively from Asia with no comparison choices presented then the choice has already been made for the customer.
Walmart, Bed Bath & Beyond, Banana Republic, and many other mega-chain stores appear to have a 'tariff' targeted against products manufactured in the USA. It would be nice to see congress address that sort of discrimination.
And the shoppers do not determine what is on the shelf of these stores - when the merchandise available is exclusively from Asia with no comparison choices presented then the choice has already been made for the customer.
11
Back in the "old days", when I was a boy, you would see old men siting around and engaging in what was called whittling - the business of shaving pieces of wood off a stick with your pocket knife, for no apparent purpose.
Now, we see President Obama engaging in the business of paring down the number jobs in our own country: how can this be?
Perhaps, he sees himself as the leader of the world - but this would be odd, because such a great leader would be expected to have made his own country into an exemplar of good government first. Certainly, that has not happened - our ills are many, and our successes non-existent.
The only logical conclusion, is that President Obama is serving the agenda of the large multinational corporations, that seek to whittle down the American Middle Class. This does not require evil intent - weakness will do just fine.
Internationalism, is the business of slashing into the spirit of '76 with a chain saw. In Obama's brave new world, you will not be able to find any proud workers, just big piles of wood chips, and no real productivity.
Now, we see President Obama engaging in the business of paring down the number jobs in our own country: how can this be?
Perhaps, he sees himself as the leader of the world - but this would be odd, because such a great leader would be expected to have made his own country into an exemplar of good government first. Certainly, that has not happened - our ills are many, and our successes non-existent.
The only logical conclusion, is that President Obama is serving the agenda of the large multinational corporations, that seek to whittle down the American Middle Class. This does not require evil intent - weakness will do just fine.
Internationalism, is the business of slashing into the spirit of '76 with a chain saw. In Obama's brave new world, you will not be able to find any proud workers, just big piles of wood chips, and no real productivity.
23
Bernie Sanders want to break up monopolies, which makes him the biggest free market capitalist in the race, but everyone calls him a Socialist. Lawmakers who support this big government-industry conglomerate pose as capitalists. It's all backwards.
28
what we need in the world is a more "equal version of capitalism" where everyone makes enough money through work of any kind to survive with dignity. The constant push for MORE money for the 1% is not going to work in the future.
Having just watched the amazing documentary; 'The Roosevelts, an intimate portrait' where we lear nabout the very flaws nature of two 'good' presidents TR and FDR it is nevertheless true threy were far better than most which is how I feel about Obama on the whole.
I completely reject the false notion that the POTUS who has rightly fought, if not fiercely enough the ever aggressive instincts of the Pentagon interventionists (Cheney/McCain/Blair and yes even the Clintons who called O weak) is wrong when he attempts to pour water on the fire while those whose policies have set the ME on fire are somehow never held responsible but blame the one man who was against their crazy irresponsible policies.
Nevertheless just like with FDR and TR, Obama HAS made some big mistakes as wel as much good. 3 spring to mind and they are big one's. His
obsession over secrecy in marked contrast to his promises for a more open Government, his U turn on the pipeline and fracking, which trashes any legacy for protecting the enviroment and thirdly and most seriously his pushing of this and TTIP legislation which are the most dangerous and regressive; so bad it makes you shake your head.
He has done so much good and tried rightly to not get pushed into new wars; . But this is very wrong and will empower the very worst international business elite and destroy livelihoods and workers life quality all over the world. A catastrophe that undoes so much For the workers a return to serfdom!
I completely reject the false notion that the POTUS who has rightly fought, if not fiercely enough the ever aggressive instincts of the Pentagon interventionists (Cheney/McCain/Blair and yes even the Clintons who called O weak) is wrong when he attempts to pour water on the fire while those whose policies have set the ME on fire are somehow never held responsible but blame the one man who was against their crazy irresponsible policies.
Nevertheless just like with FDR and TR, Obama HAS made some big mistakes as wel as much good. 3 spring to mind and they are big one's. His
obsession over secrecy in marked contrast to his promises for a more open Government, his U turn on the pipeline and fracking, which trashes any legacy for protecting the enviroment and thirdly and most seriously his pushing of this and TTIP legislation which are the most dangerous and regressive; so bad it makes you shake your head.
He has done so much good and tried rightly to not get pushed into new wars; . But this is very wrong and will empower the very worst international business elite and destroy livelihoods and workers life quality all over the world. A catastrophe that undoes so much For the workers a return to serfdom!
8
I much appreciate your balanced comments. However, your view on the TTIP is not well supported. Like many other comments, you take a strong position against this deal but without saying why. I too despise the international business elite for their preference of profit over human rights, but some of the governments who are parties to this agreement have a far worse human rights record than their corporate counterparts. And, like you, I have concerns about secrecy in formulating public or foreign policy. However, business negotiations always require more confidentiality to avoid disclosure of confidential and proprietary information. Not to mention how Wall Street would love to have inside information on how the TTIP would effect specific publicly traded corporations in the future. (And I, for one, would not give the reactionary right wing in America even a scintilla of information about the deal. They have proven over and over again that their only true talent is the dissemination of misinformation for political gain.)
I think we just sold-out our democracy.
23
No Ronny and RIchard sold it out in the 80's.
Corporate control of our political process is not an issue in the up-coming elections; it's the only issue that matters. The TPP is one more big nail in the coffin of genuine democratic process, and everyone who recognizes that should be working furiously to build the 'political revolution' that Bernie Sanders honestly says is needed for all of our people's interests and voices to be represented. I personally think the Sanders platform is great -- but whether you agree with it all or not he is trying to engage us in building a movement to demand the kind of structural changes that will allow interests other than those of billionaires and transnational corporations to determine our laws.
If people can come together around this core threat to a truly representative democracy, we will have a voice; if not, we're just whining in the comments section.
If people can come together around this core threat to a truly representative democracy, we will have a voice; if not, we're just whining in the comments section.
37
I agree. Vote for Bernie!
1
Although being quite liberal on most issues, I am extremely in favor of the TPP. Historically, World Trade has always been the case of some nations, with lower wage scales, focusing more on low-end industry, and the developed nations handling the higher-end industrial tasks.
Americans need to realize the the world--and how industry operates--is changing constantly. We have seen our economy shifting from industrial to service industries for decades. And given the advances in technology and systems engineering, that is not about to cease. Further, jobs also shift regionally within countries--such as from our rust belt to the sun belt.
Students, parents and educators--as well as governments, industries and labor unions--need to acknowledge this, and plan accordingly. Let's focus on tomorrow's jobs--building the skills and offering the higher wage-scales, and downsize our beliefs that workers' jobs that require yesterdays' skills will always be in abundance.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Americans need to realize the the world--and how industry operates--is changing constantly. We have seen our economy shifting from industrial to service industries for decades. And given the advances in technology and systems engineering, that is not about to cease. Further, jobs also shift regionally within countries--such as from our rust belt to the sun belt.
Students, parents and educators--as well as governments, industries and labor unions--need to acknowledge this, and plan accordingly. Let's focus on tomorrow's jobs--building the skills and offering the higher wage-scales, and downsize our beliefs that workers' jobs that require yesterdays' skills will always be in abundance.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
3
I assume you weren't around when there was a middle class in this country or are completely ignorant and blind to the consequences of NAFTA and CAFTA and the affect they have had on the working class families of both our country and many of the countries we trade with such as Mexican farmers that lost farms that were in their families for generation. Now they are working for poverty level wages in America and Donald Trump wants to export them for taking our jobs. The jobs Americans are too lazy to do to begin with. So speak for yourself because I hope for your sake your wealthy.
10
"Let's focus on tomorrow's jobs--building the skills and offering the higher wage-scales, and downsize our beliefs that workers' jobs that require yesterdays' skills will always be in abundance."
That would leave about 80% of the workforce in poverty. We have bent to the wind for too many years and now it is time to put up more wind breaks. In a nation that still has a 30% high school dropout rate and any on 50% of those who try college finish, there isn't much wiggle room. We need jobs--unless , of course, you have a birth control plan you would like to share with the readers here--for the "joe six-packs" of the nation--and the world. There has always been enough skills and intelligence to fill the top 20% of jobs, but that is not the problem here. Not being a welfare state, people need to work until they are 67 now for social security---assuming it is still there when they retire. Ask the GOP about it.
That would leave about 80% of the workforce in poverty. We have bent to the wind for too many years and now it is time to put up more wind breaks. In a nation that still has a 30% high school dropout rate and any on 50% of those who try college finish, there isn't much wiggle room. We need jobs--unless , of course, you have a birth control plan you would like to share with the readers here--for the "joe six-packs" of the nation--and the world. There has always been enough skills and intelligence to fill the top 20% of jobs, but that is not the problem here. Not being a welfare state, people need to work until they are 67 now for social security---assuming it is still there when they retire. Ask the GOP about it.
"The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy"
Bernie Sanders
That a Democratic President pushed this through, confirms what ordinary Americans have long suspected, namely that the Democratic Party is in the pocket of Wall Street and will when it comes to the core interests of the 0.1% act exactly like Republicans.
At least the latter don't claim that they fight for the working class.
Bernie Sanders
That a Democratic President pushed this through, confirms what ordinary Americans have long suspected, namely that the Democratic Party is in the pocket of Wall Street and will when it comes to the core interests of the 0.1% act exactly like Republicans.
At least the latter don't claim that they fight for the working class.
25
To those who champion TPP,
Why is the promise of cheaper prices a good thing? I am one to say I care less about price and more about quality. We have countless fine individuals who need good work. I rest easier knowing I'm contributing to a fair wage of an American, than a slave wage of a foreigner. Globalist prospects have no place until our own people are well-fed and as it stands 1 in 5 American children go hungry.
We have the resources to ensure our nation prospers on its own, but many industries face a miasma of regulation not meant to be held on good faith--as the job of a functioning government, but to inhibit growth and attack the particular business when fit. While I'm sure the imports from many of the impoverished countries won't be nearly held to the same standards.
The growth of US markets post '08 is largely thanks to clever manipulation by business mergers and separations giving the appearance of growth. Meanwhile savers have near-zero interest rates and wages for those who find employment have fallen flat.
This doesn't even begin to question the authority corporations will have on ensuring their intellectual property and profit over the legitimacy of government.
I guess there are two truths that hold anymore, greed knows no borders and Mickey Mouse will always be copyright of the Disney Corporation.
Why is the promise of cheaper prices a good thing? I am one to say I care less about price and more about quality. We have countless fine individuals who need good work. I rest easier knowing I'm contributing to a fair wage of an American, than a slave wage of a foreigner. Globalist prospects have no place until our own people are well-fed and as it stands 1 in 5 American children go hungry.
We have the resources to ensure our nation prospers on its own, but many industries face a miasma of regulation not meant to be held on good faith--as the job of a functioning government, but to inhibit growth and attack the particular business when fit. While I'm sure the imports from many of the impoverished countries won't be nearly held to the same standards.
The growth of US markets post '08 is largely thanks to clever manipulation by business mergers and separations giving the appearance of growth. Meanwhile savers have near-zero interest rates and wages for those who find employment have fallen flat.
This doesn't even begin to question the authority corporations will have on ensuring their intellectual property and profit over the legitimacy of government.
I guess there are two truths that hold anymore, greed knows no borders and Mickey Mouse will always be copyright of the Disney Corporation.
11
To all the haters of this deal, which seem to be the vast majority of commentators, take a look at where your sneakers, underwear, computer, phone, etc. were made. Did anybody force you to purchase those items, or did you decide to purchase them voluntarily? If there were U.S. made alternatives that were twice as expensive, would you have purchased the U.S. made items instead?
Yes, some people are made worse off by free trade. But others (including yourself, in many ways), also benefit. Those benefits should not be ignored.
Yes, some people are made worse off by free trade. But others (including yourself, in many ways), also benefit. Those benefits should not be ignored.
2
Albert,
If one is ONLY a consumer, a trade deal is almost always good because it probably will result in lower consumer prices because goods can be produced where production costs (including wages) are lowest. If one is BOTH a consumer AND a worker, a trade deal may or may not be good. It will be good for the "consumer" side of that individual, but may not be good for the "worker" side of that individual -- for example, if that worker expects to get paid more for his services than a worker from some other country will expect.
If one is ONLY a consumer, a trade deal is almost always good because it probably will result in lower consumer prices because goods can be produced where production costs (including wages) are lowest. If one is BOTH a consumer AND a worker, a trade deal may or may not be good. It will be good for the "consumer" side of that individual, but may not be good for the "worker" side of that individual -- for example, if that worker expects to get paid more for his services than a worker from some other country will expect.
5
A very small picture Consumer perspective
5
The U.S. looses its sovereignty by this SECRET trade deal.
3
If this agreement is such a great benefit to the public, why isn't the agreement being made public? Why are not the elected officials who are supposed to be the representatives of the citizens demanding that disclosure? We are learning what the .1% who own both our representatives and our media want us to learn through fluff articles like this and not a shred more.
20
The full text of the trade deal isn't available. The prior details weren't available months ago. And we're supposed to take the government's word that this is a good deal for the American people?
From what little information that has leaked out, it seems like a raw deal for many parties, especially low-skilled, low-paying American workers.
If that doesn't tell you how this administration conducts itself, after the Snowden revelations, the lack of prosecution of the financial executives of the financial crisis, the delays and ineptitude in dealing with any number of local and international crises, I don't know what will.
I don't trust the Democratic party or the Republican party. Both are supporters of crony capitalism. It's either Bernie or Trump for me and I'm leaning Trump because he's called out these trade deals as bad for the American worker and called out the disaster on illegal immigration. If our government can't figure out how to protect jobs or protect the border, they are not fulfilling their primary functions. Hear that candidates?
From what little information that has leaked out, it seems like a raw deal for many parties, especially low-skilled, low-paying American workers.
If that doesn't tell you how this administration conducts itself, after the Snowden revelations, the lack of prosecution of the financial executives of the financial crisis, the delays and ineptitude in dealing with any number of local and international crises, I don't know what will.
I don't trust the Democratic party or the Republican party. Both are supporters of crony capitalism. It's either Bernie or Trump for me and I'm leaning Trump because he's called out these trade deals as bad for the American worker and called out the disaster on illegal immigration. If our government can't figure out how to protect jobs or protect the border, they are not fulfilling their primary functions. Hear that candidates?
14
Sanders has been fighting for us for 40 years. Trump is a Johnny-come-lately narcissist disguised as a populist.
Sanders 2016
Sanders 2016
Another secret trade deal that will please international business executives at the expense of domestic employees and consumers. I am not the least impressed, nor is Joseph Stiglitz:
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trans-pacific-partnership-c...
October 2, 2015
The Trans-Pacific Free-Trade Charade
By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Adam S. Hersh
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trans-pacific-partnership-c...
October 2, 2015
The Trans-Pacific Free-Trade Charade
By Joseph E. Stiglitz and Adam S. Hersh
28
To all those who still believe that this is the most transparent administration in history!
King Obama strikes again with another secret deal.
King Obama strikes again with another secret deal.
16
The TPP is nothing but a payback by politicians to the big businesses and lobbyists who contribute to their campaigns. They'll reap big rewards and everyone else will suffer.
We need to put a stop to this. Washington is simply not working for average Americans anymore.
We need to put a stop to this. Washington is simply not working for average Americans anymore.
25
The TPP creates a new bloc that will account for around 40% of the world economy. It has both advantages and disadvantages and it takes time to see which outweighs the other. In Asia China and India are not parties to this accord.
India's drug companies are among the world's biggest producers of cheap generic medicines. They benefit from American drug-makers, when whose patents end. The shorter period for keeping industrial data secret, the more it hurts drug companies, because their billions invested in R&D will be lost.
China will have to accept the standards - intellectual property protections, digital trade rights and protections for investors - that are being locked into place by the TPP.
India's drug companies are among the world's biggest producers of cheap generic medicines. They benefit from American drug-makers, when whose patents end. The shorter period for keeping industrial data secret, the more it hurts drug companies, because their billions invested in R&D will be lost.
China will have to accept the standards - intellectual property protections, digital trade rights and protections for investors - that are being locked into place by the TPP.
10
Here is an idea government funds research and the drugs belong to the government and are then priced as generics.
China isn't in this agreement.
The point of patents is supposed to be that the inventors get a limited amount of time to profit from a monopoly on their inventions, and after that the public has free use of them. So if India's drug companies can make a profit providing the world with 20-year-old medicines at a low cost, great! That's how the system is supposed to work, except for the part where one of the big drug manufacturers over there was providing low-quality contaminated products.
President Obama has been a good president for the one percent. Bernie Sanders is the president we need. Sanders has vowed to fight this disastrous trade deal:
Sanders: "I am disappointed but not surprised by the decision to move forward on the disastrous Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement that will hurt consumers and cost American jobs. Wall Street and other big corporations have won again. It is time for the rest of us to stop letting multinational corporations rig the system to pad their profits at our expense.
"This agreement follows failed trade deals with Mexico, China and other low-wage countries that have cost millions of jobs and shuttered tens of thousands of factories across the United States. In the Senate, I will do all that I can to defeat this agreement. We need trade policies that benefit American workers and consumers, not just CEOs of large multi-national corporations."
Go Bernie!
Sanders: "I am disappointed but not surprised by the decision to move forward on the disastrous Trans-Pacific Partnership trade agreement that will hurt consumers and cost American jobs. Wall Street and other big corporations have won again. It is time for the rest of us to stop letting multinational corporations rig the system to pad their profits at our expense.
"This agreement follows failed trade deals with Mexico, China and other low-wage countries that have cost millions of jobs and shuttered tens of thousands of factories across the United States. In the Senate, I will do all that I can to defeat this agreement. We need trade policies that benefit American workers and consumers, not just CEOs of large multi-national corporations."
Go Bernie!
41
"Administration officials have repeatedly pressed their contention that the partnership would build a bulwark against China’s economic influence, and allow the United States and its allies — not Beijing — to set the standards for Pacific commerce."
Why does the US find it necessary to "build a bulwark against China’s economic influence" in its own region?
Why is the US entitled to bully the entire world to benefit corporations--which is what this treaty promises to do?
How is China's influence allegedly bad? That we are not told.
I do know from every detail the public has been able to see that the TPP will be a gold mine for corporations and the gold all comes from the populations of the countries that are signing on to it.
Why does the US find it necessary to "build a bulwark against China’s economic influence" in its own region?
Why is the US entitled to bully the entire world to benefit corporations--which is what this treaty promises to do?
How is China's influence allegedly bad? That we are not told.
I do know from every detail the public has been able to see that the TPP will be a gold mine for corporations and the gold all comes from the populations of the countries that are signing on to it.
11
"...a potentially legacy-making achievement for President Obama..."
Agreed: it will cement his legacy as one of the biggest frauds in U.S. political history. Change you can believe in? Hardly: proof that there is a Permanent Government, that the Demopublicans and Republocrats work for the same paymaster.
Agreed: it will cement his legacy as one of the biggest frauds in U.S. political history. Change you can believe in? Hardly: proof that there is a Permanent Government, that the Demopublicans and Republocrats work for the same paymaster.
26
RE "one of the biggest frauds in U.S. political history."
We are much better off today than we should have been able to expect we would be, when viewed from the bottom of that deep chasm 7 years ago. And this despite a GOP leveling a non-ending torrent of insults, disrespect, and paralyzing antipathy that eclipses what any president in living memory has had to put up with. Indeed not since the 19th century has a president met with a less cooperative, less civilized, less mature opposition.
We are much better off today than we should have been able to expect we would be, when viewed from the bottom of that deep chasm 7 years ago. And this despite a GOP leveling a non-ending torrent of insults, disrespect, and paralyzing antipathy that eclipses what any president in living memory has had to put up with. Indeed not since the 19th century has a president met with a less cooperative, less civilized, less mature opposition.
Interesting graphic in the article -- the one entitled "Trans-Pacific Partnership Countries." The ARROWS all point FROM the US TO other TPP signatory countries, naturally suggesting to the reader that the TPP will result in a lot more goods and services moving FROM the US TO other TPP signatory countries. But the size of the CIRCLE representing each signatory country is a total of "imports plus exports." That means a circle will be the same size if the US IMPORTS, say, $35 billion from a country and EXPORTS $1 billion to the country, or instead EXPORTS $35 billion to that country and IMPORTS only $1 billion.
In other words, one can't tell from the circles whether we mostly IMPORT from a country or instead EXPORT to that country. I guess we'll just have to guess about that. What's your guess for, say, Vietnam, which has a pretty big circle ($36 million) -- do you think we mostly export to Vietnam, or perhaps do we mostly import from Vietnam? How about Malaysia ($44 billion)? Singapore ($47 billion)?
In other words, one can't tell from the circles whether we mostly IMPORT from a country or instead EXPORT to that country. I guess we'll just have to guess about that. What's your guess for, say, Vietnam, which has a pretty big circle ($36 million) -- do you think we mostly export to Vietnam, or perhaps do we mostly import from Vietnam? How about Malaysia ($44 billion)? Singapore ($47 billion)?
13
So tired of Obama and all the other globalists. We need retrenchment. The best way to halt the spread of an infectious disease is through quarantine and isolation. The same goes for the disease of globalism. The cure is a return to strong borders, sovereignty and the self-determination of organic peoples within their own territorial spaces. This is the prerequisite for real peace and prosperity. Good fences make good neighbors.
20
Bless you. A voice of reason and insanity amidst all this crazed globaloney!
"This secret, sinister-looking deal looks as if it is to insure that an American worker doesn't find a manufacturing job for the rest of the century."
I haven't read the deal (which isn't even available to be read), and so it's premature for me or anyone else to say whether your assessment will prove to be correct.
But probably you're right. What's good for international trade generally isn't good for American manufacturing jobs. If the principal objective of a trade agreement is to facilitate the flow of goods and services between signatory countries, it stands to reason that goods and services will flow most from countries that price them the lowest. Generally speaking, that won't be the US.
The US probably will benefit in other ways -- for example, better protection of intellectual property rights, which helps us disproportionately because Americans own a disproportionate share of IP rights. And the US might benefit from the "unblocking" of certain foreign markets (US cars marketed to Japan, for example), and so this deal may help US workers who manufacture those no-longer-blocked goods -- assuming, of course, that US car manufacturers don't conclude that US labor costs are too high and, therefore, open plants in Southeast Asia to manufacture "American" cars for sale in Japan. What do you suppose the odds of that are? I'd say somewhere north of 99%.
I haven't read the deal (which isn't even available to be read), and so it's premature for me or anyone else to say whether your assessment will prove to be correct.
But probably you're right. What's good for international trade generally isn't good for American manufacturing jobs. If the principal objective of a trade agreement is to facilitate the flow of goods and services between signatory countries, it stands to reason that goods and services will flow most from countries that price them the lowest. Generally speaking, that won't be the US.
The US probably will benefit in other ways -- for example, better protection of intellectual property rights, which helps us disproportionately because Americans own a disproportionate share of IP rights. And the US might benefit from the "unblocking" of certain foreign markets (US cars marketed to Japan, for example), and so this deal may help US workers who manufacture those no-longer-blocked goods -- assuming, of course, that US car manufacturers don't conclude that US labor costs are too high and, therefore, open plants in Southeast Asia to manufacture "American" cars for sale in Japan. What do you suppose the odds of that are? I'd say somewhere north of 99%.
3
From what we can make of the secret TPP, when it comes to the American people, decent-paying jobs, and the ability of local and state governments to control its development and the use of its lands and resources, the TPP should be called the:
a. New Deal
b. Fair Deal
c. Square Deal
d. Raw Deal
a. New Deal
b. Fair Deal
c. Square Deal
d. Raw Deal
4
Free trade is to the commies what Slim Whitman's "Indian Love Call" is to the Martians on "Mars Attacks."
"The partnership [will] end more than 18,000 tariffs...placed on United States exports.... Japan’s...barriers [will] come down. [We have] more to gain from freer trade with the Pacific nations. Eighty percent of those nations’ exports to the United States are already duty-free,...while American products face assorted barriers in those countries that [will] end. Increased United States sales abroad [will] create jobs in export industries, which...pay more than jobs in domestic-only businesses."
"The accord for the first time require[s] state-owned businesses...to comply with commercial trade rules and labor and environmental standards[, which are] the strongest ever in a trade agreement."
"The accord has provisions against wildlife trafficking, illegal or unsustainable logging and fishing, and protections for a range of marine species and animals.... For the first time in a trade agreement there are provisions to help small businesses...deal with trade barriers and red tape. Changes [also] respond to...criticisms that the Investor-State Dispute Settlement panels favor businesses and interfere with nations’ efforts to pass rules safeguarding public health and safety. A code of conduct [will] govern lawyers selected for arbitration panels[, a]nd tobacco companies [will] be excluded."
OMG! *Hyperventilates*
...Zip it. Stop nitpicking and see the bigger picture, Reds.
"The partnership [will] end more than 18,000 tariffs...placed on United States exports.... Japan’s...barriers [will] come down. [We have] more to gain from freer trade with the Pacific nations. Eighty percent of those nations’ exports to the United States are already duty-free,...while American products face assorted barriers in those countries that [will] end. Increased United States sales abroad [will] create jobs in export industries, which...pay more than jobs in domestic-only businesses."
"The accord for the first time require[s] state-owned businesses...to comply with commercial trade rules and labor and environmental standards[, which are] the strongest ever in a trade agreement."
"The accord has provisions against wildlife trafficking, illegal or unsustainable logging and fishing, and protections for a range of marine species and animals.... For the first time in a trade agreement there are provisions to help small businesses...deal with trade barriers and red tape. Changes [also] respond to...criticisms that the Investor-State Dispute Settlement panels favor businesses and interfere with nations’ efforts to pass rules safeguarding public health and safety. A code of conduct [will] govern lawyers selected for arbitration panels[, a]nd tobacco companies [will] be excluded."
OMG! *Hyperventilates*
...Zip it. Stop nitpicking and see the bigger picture, Reds.
1
This pact was written by and for corporations and it will continue the diminishment of American jobs and the American middle class. At the end of the day the .1% probably have the clout to push it through. We may have cheaper goods. We will definitely have fewer good jobs, thanks to this. Just as bad, we've sold our legal system to the corporations through the ISDS provisions. For shame, NYTimes, that you did not describe these. What does it take for all of us to wise up?
26
Pox on free traders and the oligarchs, who have made the US into a bunch of paupers.
9
if its so good, why cant the PEOPLE read it before it passes !!!!
25
There is a trend in the "most transparent administration in history" "you have to pass it to find out what it does"...
I think you are confused. The negotiations had to be completed before you could read it. Now that it is completed Congress has 90 days to review what is in the agreement, and so can you.
"...the United States trade representative, called the labor and environmental rules the strongest ever in a trade agreement and a model for future pacts..."
This is so disingenuous. I worked in New Jersey at a drug company that regularly employed illegal aliens working in not only sub-standard but often dangerous conditions. The workers were supplied by a third party as contractors, and were paid less than minimum wage. They were frequently injured. After I left, I reported the company. Nothing was ever done. Regular headlines appear here that companies are cheating in this country, VW being the most recent, how can we possibly enforce laws in Vietnam? We regularly discover products from China that are toxic and those are only the ones we find. Right now, the CEO of Massey Energy is on trial violating mine safety laws and that is rare, he's only on trial because 29 people died. The only thing this will do is line the pockets of CEO's who will save money by shipping jobs to third world countries. And really, are the Japanese going to buy a Dodge, when they can buy a Toyota?
This is so disingenuous. I worked in New Jersey at a drug company that regularly employed illegal aliens working in not only sub-standard but often dangerous conditions. The workers were supplied by a third party as contractors, and were paid less than minimum wage. They were frequently injured. After I left, I reported the company. Nothing was ever done. Regular headlines appear here that companies are cheating in this country, VW being the most recent, how can we possibly enforce laws in Vietnam? We regularly discover products from China that are toxic and those are only the ones we find. Right now, the CEO of Massey Energy is on trial violating mine safety laws and that is rare, he's only on trial because 29 people died. The only thing this will do is line the pockets of CEO's who will save money by shipping jobs to third world countries. And really, are the Japanese going to buy a Dodge, when they can buy a Toyota?
18
Before everyone gets in line to pat POTUS and co on the back here, I'd suggest you Google the TPP and read up on its "unique" interpretation of copyright and how that can affect your ISP.
It's not pretty.
Remember when Obama was against corporate power grabs and loved to help "folks" like you and me? Distant memories now, it seems.
It's not pretty.
Remember when Obama was against corporate power grabs and loved to help "folks" like you and me? Distant memories now, it seems.
17
The Trans-Pacific Partnership is not just about trade and that is important to keep in mind as one considers whether it does truly serve U.S. interests. If the United States does not strengthen commercial alliances with Pacific rim and Latin American nations, it risks a greater Chinese influence and presence, both commercial and otherwise, in those regions of the world. That, in turn, would potentially isolate the United States and limit its influence in east Asia, South America, and across the Pacific.
From the perspective of policy aimed at preserving public health, consumer and labor rights, and environmental quality, it is better for the U.S. to drive an agreement that sets minimum expectations in these areas than it would be to leave the questions for China to settle as its power and reach grows. It is not unreasonable to expect that any commercial ties between TPP nations and China would tend to reduce, or eliminate, consumer and worker protections and be likely to include very little, if any, environmental standards.
It's true that any trade deal risks economic dislocation in this country. But natural security is at stake. China is a rising rival. The U.S. must check it if it hopes to preserve both access to foreign markets and a reasonable likelihood of an ongoing military supremacy and reasonable economic influence around the world.
From the perspective of policy aimed at preserving public health, consumer and labor rights, and environmental quality, it is better for the U.S. to drive an agreement that sets minimum expectations in these areas than it would be to leave the questions for China to settle as its power and reach grows. It is not unreasonable to expect that any commercial ties between TPP nations and China would tend to reduce, or eliminate, consumer and worker protections and be likely to include very little, if any, environmental standards.
It's true that any trade deal risks economic dislocation in this country. But natural security is at stake. China is a rising rival. The U.S. must check it if it hopes to preserve both access to foreign markets and a reasonable likelihood of an ongoing military supremacy and reasonable economic influence around the world.
3
TPP includes two tiny nations of Peru and Chile from
Latin America accounting for $42B of our trade out of
total of $1.6T, a tiny portion. The big economies of
Brazil, Argentina, Colombia are not included and they
are the biggest trading partners of China. It doesn't accomplish
the stated objective of containing China.
Latin America accounting for $42B of our trade out of
total of $1.6T, a tiny portion. The big economies of
Brazil, Argentina, Colombia are not included and they
are the biggest trading partners of China. It doesn't accomplish
the stated objective of containing China.
This deal is ALL about Big Business worldwide making Money; the labor & environment is window-dressing designed to mollify the 99%.. The details are merely (a pathetic) attempt to pretend to restrict businesses in participating countries from making $$$ it the old fashioned way: Any Way They Can. In the end, the enforcement of its various details is almost totally dependent on the cooperation of the governments of the participating nations. Which, of course, are totally controlled by their Big Businesses. To the limited extent there are international tribunals established to receive and rule upon complaints of violations, those tribunals will likewise consist of appointees of business interests, and will merely be another subset of on-going negotiations between global business interests. And what tribunal can anyone imagine will seriously -- seriously -- consider any claim that a nation is not paying its workers a decent wage, especially when other business interests represented on said tribunal are benefiting from offshoring its manufacturing to said nation in order to profit from its sweatshop, trafficked labor?
29
A gift to BIG pharmaceutical companies?
"But the accord — a product of nearly eight years of negotiations, including five days of round-the-clock sessions here — is a potentially legacy-making achievement for President Obama, and the capstone for his foreign policy “pivot” toward closer relations with fast-growing eastern Asia, after years of American preoccupation with the Middle East and North Africa."
Why not save money for real reporting and just issue a WH press release?
Legacy.
Pivot.
Gibberish.
I know. The NYT isn't part of the story unless it changes the press release. Slightly. Too much would violate the oligarch consensus. In the west, they call this "face." And crony capitalism. The anti machiavellians, google it, systemically addressed the proper deference to power to advance.
Why not save money for real reporting and just issue a WH press release?
Legacy.
Pivot.
Gibberish.
I know. The NYT isn't part of the story unless it changes the press release. Slightly. Too much would violate the oligarch consensus. In the west, they call this "face." And crony capitalism. The anti machiavellians, google it, systemically addressed the proper deference to power to advance.
23
Whether the trans-Pacific trade deal is good for the US or not but the growing trend toward regionalisation of world trade is certainly weakening the WTO.
1
Obama's legacy was secure long before he supported this turkey of a trade deal.
6
So you have to wonder why Obama is doing this. I hate to think it, but I do believe he is setting himself up to surpass his democratic forefather Pres. Clinton and be able to run the world from behind the scenes when he departs. That he is willing to do it at the cost of the lowest of our country is due to the nature of capitalism rather than the nature of the man or man himself.
Whatever happened to the "globalization" of labor? Why are American workers completely unwilling to at least attempt to organize across national borders, working with, not against, their brother and sister workers in Latin America, Asia and Africa? They could start right here in NYC, where plenty of people from those countries already work. Internationalism in labor lost out to xenophobia, while big business went global.
2
I will be very angry if I am not told where my food is coming from.
21
I don't really expect this to happen, but it'd be kinda nice if the posters yelling about countries being sued over anti-smoking laws and the like would READ THE ARTICLE.
It'd also be nice if folks yelling about Obamacare from Florida knew that it's THEIR governor who ran their costs up by refusing to expand Medicaid, and folks generally knew about how capitalism works. Here's a tip: captialism doesn't privilege America.
And for all the fact that the issues are with capitalism, I also kinda wish the "leftists," yelling about the President's being a sellout, corporatocracy, and seizing the means of production kinda got a clue about what's possible these days. Or at least read some Marx.
It'd also be nice if folks yelling about Obamacare from Florida knew that it's THEIR governor who ran their costs up by refusing to expand Medicaid, and folks generally knew about how capitalism works. Here's a tip: captialism doesn't privilege America.
And for all the fact that the issues are with capitalism, I also kinda wish the "leftists," yelling about the President's being a sellout, corporatocracy, and seizing the means of production kinda got a clue about what's possible these days. Or at least read some Marx.
2
People don't read the article because they have been reading previous NYT articles on the subject and rarely if ever does any go off message at the NYT (see immigration). So they expect more of the same, and sure they get some stuff wrong but they also avoid the propaganda.
Capitalism is a horrible economic system, it just happens to better than all the others. So we try to make do and plug the holes as they occur (regulations).
Capitalism is a horrible economic system, it just happens to better than all the others. So we try to make do and plug the holes as they occur (regulations).
The agreement is a job killer for lower skilled workers. That is why legislation to provide free two years of college or trade school should be passed along side of, and as a condition of passage of the TPP. This would provide the opportunity for many Americans to improve their skills needed in today's more complex society.... http://lstrn.us/1KVI0wQ
6
Can I go to trade school to learn how to be a robot? They never get sick, need vacation, child care, health insurance, retirement or self respect. We need some serious thinking right now for 2050 (or sooner) when taxis, trucks and buses will drive themselves and there are no more lawyers doing discovery, doctors doing diagnosis or waitresses serving food. The TPP isn't it.
The only thing "free" about this pact is the massive giveaway to the corporate kleptocracy, and is another nail in the coffin of small manufacturing in this country. As an Obama voter, I'd like to say thanks for nothing, Obama.
52
Time to sharpen the guillotine, folks. This is the last nail in the coffin of the middle class in the United States of America.
32
I read comments almost every day about the "last nail in the coffin" of the middle class, or democracy, or America. Reports of our demise are greatly exaggerated.
1
Have you looked for a living wage job lately?
1
But if such local companies (and the local impetus to use them) "infringe" on the profit global corporations have deemed it their right to make, the TPP provisions will allow those companies to steamroll over any local preference ordinances or even campaigns encouraging local sourcing.
Call your members of Congress and tell them in no uncertain words and as many times as it takes: Vote down this agreement!
Call your members of Congress and tell them in no uncertain words and as many times as it takes: Vote down this agreement!
12
"This agreement is not about trade."
Actually, it is. It's also about labor, though, and that's what will cause a great deal of hand-wringing anguish among Presidential candidates.
Actually, it is. It's also about labor, though, and that's what will cause a great deal of hand-wringing anguish among Presidential candidates.
2
And so, my fellow Americans, the choice between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney turns out to be almost no choice at all.
Bernie Sanders is the only real choice in 2016. He is the only legitimate candidate that is not corporate owned. All he has to do is overcome billions of dollars in corporate attacks and lies, main stream media bias, voter apathy, voter suppression, the RNC, the "Hillary's Our Gal" DNC, and probably in the end, five corrupt Supreme Court "Justices".
PS: Hillary belongs in the first sentence above.
Bernie Sanders is the only real choice in 2016. He is the only legitimate candidate that is not corporate owned. All he has to do is overcome billions of dollars in corporate attacks and lies, main stream media bias, voter apathy, voter suppression, the RNC, the "Hillary's Our Gal" DNC, and probably in the end, five corrupt Supreme Court "Justices".
PS: Hillary belongs in the first sentence above.
24
Obama's three major "accomplishments":
1. Enormous, i.e. billion dollar, federal subsidy program for the private for-profit insurance companies, leaving 80% of the previously uncovered still without coverage.
2. Decades of higher pharmaceutical prices, copyright & patent extensions, loss of national sovereignty.
3. Feeble federal response to recession with longest recession since the 1930s with stagnant and declining wages, shrinking middle class and loss of economic mobility.
He's a Democrat.
1. Enormous, i.e. billion dollar, federal subsidy program for the private for-profit insurance companies, leaving 80% of the previously uncovered still without coverage.
2. Decades of higher pharmaceutical prices, copyright & patent extensions, loss of national sovereignty.
3. Feeble federal response to recession with longest recession since the 1930s with stagnant and declining wages, shrinking middle class and loss of economic mobility.
He's a Democrat.
12
Final compromises covered commercial protections for drug makers’ advanced medicines,
Oh, great! Big Pharma can unleash its gluttonous wrath on the rest of the world now and maybe give us here a break?
In our dreams, right? Now they can boost their prices elsewhere so as to now make it appear their price gouging here is not as deep . . . making it seem almost as if they've turned benevolent.
Oh, great! Big Pharma can unleash its gluttonous wrath on the rest of the world now and maybe give us here a break?
In our dreams, right? Now they can boost their prices elsewhere so as to now make it appear their price gouging here is not as deep . . . making it seem almost as if they've turned benevolent.
9
This article reads like something written by a PR flack from the office of the U.S. Trade Representative. Jackie Calmes should read the Comments to find out what's really involved and why it is opposed by a big majority of the American people, not just so-called "special interests." The true "special interests" wrote this thing.
29
Who? Who wrote the whole thing? Can you give us some names?
I'm referring to the TPP as this "thing." It was written by the corporate "stakeholders." I don't have any specific names off the top of my head.
Smart deal that will help all members in their specialties from the relationship "cost benefit" how to make governments on behalf of their societies economically interacting with others.
I feel immensely that my country Brazil has been dedicated ha 12.anos since the PT came to power in catching up economically and politically with those of the dumb left, whose empirical evidence shows occur in Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba and other African republics and has also corruption in its "core business".
I feel immensely that my country Brazil has been dedicated ha 12.anos since the PT came to power in catching up economically and politically with those of the dumb left, whose empirical evidence shows occur in Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba and other African republics and has also corruption in its "core business".
Good deal for the US, much more positive than negative in this agreement, the hysteria that Bernie and Donald will stir up notwithstanding...
1
Welcome to dystopia...
After 7 years of earning near zero on my bank account, I've adopted a lifestyle that requires very, very little money.
And, you know what?
I do not miss the old one.
Money is nice to have, but beyond coverage of the basics, money is truly unnecessary.
You can keep your rigged markets and your systems of economic extraction.
I've moved on..
After 7 years of earning near zero on my bank account, I've adopted a lifestyle that requires very, very little money.
And, you know what?
I do not miss the old one.
Money is nice to have, but beyond coverage of the basics, money is truly unnecessary.
You can keep your rigged markets and your systems of economic extraction.
I've moved on..
12
Here, here!...I've made the same shift and am loving it. The best way to fight the forces destroying our world is to stop buying their worthless plastic wares and participating in their increasingly reckless ponzi schemes . That is true freedom.
Free Trade Agreements are a paradox. NAFTA (and the equivalent dismantling of trade barriers in the western world in the 90s) gave every home a 50 inch plasma tv that gets replaced every three or four years. How unthinkable that kind of luxury was even in the 80s, when durable consumer goods were really expensive. It also gave us unaffordable health care, a hallowing out of the middle class, and vast inequality. It's very hard to conclude the deal was worth it.
This looks like more of the same. Great for the corporate oligarchy; a terrible deal for citizens.
This looks like more of the same. Great for the corporate oligarchy; a terrible deal for citizens.
16
So when do WE get to see the full text? Anyone whose opinion (for or against) who is NOT a member of Congress could not have seen agreement, so their criticism is based on 'probablies' rather than actualities.
The facts of free trade are:
Your economy is in a position to be better off if you buy goods and services that other countries produce more cheaply than your own...
IF
You put your own country's resources into activities that demand a higher price in the market place.
Unfortunately, America has not been ready to make the sustained investments in training and education to fully exploit the new opportunities. No one is better off if you let your surplussed resources lie fallow.
'Fast track' for the TPP has a chance to prevent the side agreement meddling which have been used to lower worker and environmental protections. Yet there is no commitment from Congress to actually do something for the resources that will be surplussed. That's the rub for American acceptance of TPP.
So when do WE get to see the text?
The facts of free trade are:
Your economy is in a position to be better off if you buy goods and services that other countries produce more cheaply than your own...
IF
You put your own country's resources into activities that demand a higher price in the market place.
Unfortunately, America has not been ready to make the sustained investments in training and education to fully exploit the new opportunities. No one is better off if you let your surplussed resources lie fallow.
'Fast track' for the TPP has a chance to prevent the side agreement meddling which have been used to lower worker and environmental protections. Yet there is no commitment from Congress to actually do something for the resources that will be surplussed. That's the rub for American acceptance of TPP.
So when do WE get to see the text?
2
Here we go again. How many jobs will be lost in the US and how bad will the trade deficits become? One million jobs have been lost since the signing of NAFTA agreement with Canada and Mexico. The signing of this agreement is a victory for the lobbyist (former government officials) who control the government and proves the moral depravity of both parties are beyond reform and repair. The real motivation behind this bill is to counter the rise of China at the expense of the American people.
9
It's excruciatingly simple for Fox News, Yahoo, or MSN to run a story about a small town in Louisiana you've never heard of that is home to a few hundred "real Americans" who are sugar farmers that all went belly up because increased global competition directly created by Obama's trade pact drove prices down to levels unsustainable by domestic farmers.
On the other hand, it's extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible to see the benefits of the lower sugar prices created by Obama's trade pact that get spread thinly across American consumers and businesses, but they do exist.
You will hear many stories like the former. They will tug on your heartstrings. You won't hear anything about the latter (unless you read and understand dull macroeconomic analyses).
I am against the fact that this deal was put together in total secrecy. I am for the fact that we are taking a geopolitical leadership position in a way that does not include blowing up villages.
All that said, I can't judge this policy until I understand exactly what it contains. I just hope people take a quantitative look at it before passing judgement.
On the other hand, it's extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible to see the benefits of the lower sugar prices created by Obama's trade pact that get spread thinly across American consumers and businesses, but they do exist.
You will hear many stories like the former. They will tug on your heartstrings. You won't hear anything about the latter (unless you read and understand dull macroeconomic analyses).
I am against the fact that this deal was put together in total secrecy. I am for the fact that we are taking a geopolitical leadership position in a way that does not include blowing up villages.
All that said, I can't judge this policy until I understand exactly what it contains. I just hope people take a quantitative look at it before passing judgement.
The fundamental problem with this deal is the secrecy within which it has been shrouded. If this is really such a great deal for the people, then the people should be able to see it.
If there ever was a good time for a do-nothing Congress, this is it.
If there ever was a good time for a do-nothing Congress, this is it.
13
"Its full 30-chapter text will not be available for perhaps a month, but labor unions, environmentalists and liberal activists are poised to argue that the agreement favors big business over workers and environmental protection."
Will the public have access to this or are we supposed to trust our corporate-owned politicians to look after our interests?
Remember Obama's '08 campaign promise to renegotiate NAFTA? Apparently, what he meant was, he will negotiate something that's even worse for American workers.
Will the public have access to this or are we supposed to trust our corporate-owned politicians to look after our interests?
Remember Obama's '08 campaign promise to renegotiate NAFTA? Apparently, what he meant was, he will negotiate something that's even worse for American workers.
51
Try looking in the Federal Register when the bill is proposed. Lots of public information, but is the public interested?
Fom what I understand this one isn't on the Federal Register.
"...a potentially legacy-making achievement for President Obama..."
Agreed: it will cement his legacy as one of the biggest frauds in U.S. political history. Change you can believe in? Hardly: proof that there is a Permanent Government, that the Demopublicans and Republocrats work for the same paymaster.
Agreed: it will cement his legacy as one of the biggest frauds in U.S. political history. Change you can believe in? Hardly: proof that there is a Permanent Government, that the Demopublicans and Republocrats work for the same paymaster.
17
The trouble with the TPT is that it does not actually address the plight of the American worker.
The essential problem is that corporations have pitted American workers' wages against (Chinese, Vietnamese, pick a country) wages, and - no surprise here - have found that it's cheaper to employ in China.
ALERT! No one wants to compete in a race to the bottom on wages.
We need some sensible legislation to protect American jobs, and let the trade war scare mongers scream.
I think most people would be willing to pay an extra 3 cents for tube socks at WalMart if that would protect their children's ability to find a decent paying job.
The essential problem is that corporations have pitted American workers' wages against (Chinese, Vietnamese, pick a country) wages, and - no surprise here - have found that it's cheaper to employ in China.
ALERT! No one wants to compete in a race to the bottom on wages.
We need some sensible legislation to protect American jobs, and let the trade war scare mongers scream.
I think most people would be willing to pay an extra 3 cents for tube socks at WalMart if that would protect their children's ability to find a decent paying job.
21
One of the issues being watched closely in Canada is what is going to happen to the protections for dairies and poultry. In BC, thanks to the "poultry boards" that limit licenses for chickens and turkeys, we are going to pay upwards of $50.00 (Canadian) for a turkey to feed 6-8 people. And really they don't taste much different from the mass-produced ones in the US> Plain ol' "monterey" jack cheese made in Canada is $27.40 per kilo (roughly $13.70 per pound). Cheese is the most-stolen item in grocery stories, by the way.
While it would be fine to see prices lower, our fears up here are also on lack of food security and quality of food. As it is, with weak Canadian labeling laws, we rarely know where our current packaged foods come from. And while it is expensive, nothing beats Prince Edward Island butter!
While it would be fine to see prices lower, our fears up here are also on lack of food security and quality of food. As it is, with weak Canadian labeling laws, we rarely know where our current packaged foods come from. And while it is expensive, nothing beats Prince Edward Island butter!
1
If you liked NAFTA where American jobs were shipped mostly to Latin America, you'll love TPP so we can start transferring what's left of our jobs to Asia too.
Makes you wonder if the people we elected who are, in essence, our employees are really working for US. If Congress was your business and these were your employees you'd fire the lot of them.
You know who in America benefits? Major political contributor manufacturers like Apple, for instance, who can get $650 iPhones made in Asia by 12- year-olds for a nickel an hour, all resulting in windfall profits.
Makes you wonder if the people we elected who are, in essence, our employees are really working for US. If Congress was your business and these were your employees you'd fire the lot of them.
You know who in America benefits? Major political contributor manufacturers like Apple, for instance, who can get $650 iPhones made in Asia by 12- year-olds for a nickel an hour, all resulting in windfall profits.
23
Solution: Buy American products. They may be more expensive.
1
We have to encircle China .This is good for that reason .But what happens with Australia which has already its own free trade agreement with China. Cant we import via Australia from China with no tariffs?
Good point. I suspect the "no tariff" part of our deal requires an Australian seller to declare the source of the goods being sold to an American buyer, and that (essentially) trans-shipping goods received from China isn't allowed.
In real life, of course, what you suggest is possible probably will happen. In fact, to get a leg up on everyone else who's doing what you describe, some Australian seller will arrange for goods bound from China to Australia to be re-routed en route, so they get delivered directly from China to the US, skipping Australia entirely, all tariff-free.
In real life, of course, what you suggest is possible probably will happen. In fact, to get a leg up on everyone else who's doing what you describe, some Australian seller will arrange for goods bound from China to Australia to be re-routed en route, so they get delivered directly from China to the US, skipping Australia entirely, all tariff-free.
You can tell how much confidence the Obama administration has in the details of this deal by how open they've been about the drafts, goals, language for the past eight years.
5
I'm not in favor of formulating opinions without specifics. As the article noted, the details won't be released for another month. Even then, most people won't bother to read the outcome. We have legislators that don't even read their own laws.
The public will likely consume an interpretation provided through media. I suspect lovers will love and haters will hate. Understanding the logic and intention of the agreement is secondary.
The public will likely consume an interpretation provided through media. I suspect lovers will love and haters will hate. Understanding the logic and intention of the agreement is secondary.
3
If this deal is so good for the American People, why was it negotiated in top secret, with Anti-Everything-Obama Republicans agreeing to step aside?
Answer: This deal is not good for the American People.
Correction: This deal is not good for 99% of the American People...
Answer: This deal is not good for the American People.
Correction: This deal is not good for 99% of the American People...
18
Welcome to Beijing and Mumbai. To the Americans and Canadians in the middle class, welcome to poverty and more migrants from extremely poor countries.
As usual free movement of goods is followed by free movement of people, i.e. Europe dramatically changing demographics, same picture in Canada and the United States. I'm afraid the signing of this deal is going to push Canada to elect Muntclair (NDP] and the US to elect Bernie Sanders to office.
Why are the citizens always kept in the dark before signing any trade deal? The answer is very simple. They don't want the people who are going to be hurt the most to scrutinize it and rejected.
These kinds of deals are going to push people to move to the left in greater numbers, that involves a good chunk of the Republican base as well, especially the poor Republicans. The West has very little to gain and a lot more to lose.
I guess Mr. Sanders poll numbers are going to increase this week!
As usual free movement of goods is followed by free movement of people, i.e. Europe dramatically changing demographics, same picture in Canada and the United States. I'm afraid the signing of this deal is going to push Canada to elect Muntclair (NDP] and the US to elect Bernie Sanders to office.
Why are the citizens always kept in the dark before signing any trade deal? The answer is very simple. They don't want the people who are going to be hurt the most to scrutinize it and rejected.
These kinds of deals are going to push people to move to the left in greater numbers, that involves a good chunk of the Republican base as well, especially the poor Republicans. The West has very little to gain and a lot more to lose.
I guess Mr. Sanders poll numbers are going to increase this week!
10
This article seems to have missed the political significance of the TPP. As China gets stronger both economically and militarily, America's influence in the region will weaken. Many Asian countries already have, willing or reluctantly, joined the China's Asian Infrastructure Development bank, despite America's disapproval. Some thoughtful observers have pointed out that the AIDB might challenge established western institutions like the World Bank. The TPP seems to be an attempt to reinforce America's position in Asia, and balance a rising China.
You might think that this is unnecessary or wrongheaded. You might think that America should not interfere in the developments Asia. This is a fair point of view. However, this should also be included in the discussion of the TPP, together with the economic, social, and environmental impact the deal has on America.
You might think that this is unnecessary or wrongheaded. You might think that America should not interfere in the developments Asia. This is a fair point of view. However, this should also be included in the discussion of the TPP, together with the economic, social, and environmental impact the deal has on America.
7
The TPP is not a free trade agreement, it's a geopolitical strategy to integrate economies by subverting the legal status of the nation-state and transferring some of that status to multinational corporations.
It is aimed at enabling Wall St., and other Western finance sector "foreign investors"--which basically own the corporations--assert a dominant influence over the member societies.
It's also aimed at China, intended to leverage Western finance (and to a lesser extent, intellectual property) as a weapon against China's raw economic power.
It is aimed at enabling Wall St., and other Western finance sector "foreign investors"--which basically own the corporations--assert a dominant influence over the member societies.
It's also aimed at China, intended to leverage Western finance (and to a lesser extent, intellectual property) as a weapon against China's raw economic power.
11
This agreement is yet another example of President Obama's pragmatic approach to governance, and the reactions to it are yet more examples of the no-compromise extremism now running through both parties. Are the objectors doing anything other than arguing that they should have it their way or no way at all? And is that a responsible way to approach international relations?
2
The more special interest groups that dislike it the better the deal most be for the Anerican people.
2
Somehow the Times has printed cloudy details regarding a secret agreement. Has the White House leaked more data or is the Times attempting to work on Obama's all important legacy? And does it not strike anyone as odd that this agreement t is purported to legally codify child and slave labor. Kind of an odd thing for an African American President to be promoting.
6
No more strange than the abundance of your Republican female politicians that constantly support policies that would hurt poor women and children. Besides, men don't often care about children, regardless of their race.
It is heart-warming to see that most commentators are not taken in by the establishment point of view of TPP, as faithfully represented by this article. There is some hope after all.
11
millions of jobs have been lost as the american worker's relative place in the global hierarchy has declined. but globalization has lifted 1 billion people out of poverty around the world. and the lower cost of production has made cars and smart phones affordable. also, our economic interdependence with asia will make war suicidal at best. and if more young men in foreign countries have jobs they will be less likely to join terrorist organizations.
3
The oligarchy wins again. This agreement is not about trade. It's about how global corporations create monopolies and banish competition, it's about removing all regulations that formerly provided for the common good. And it's all secret. So called free trade allows the drug companies to charge what they want and to continue their intellectual property rights till the end of time. Good for Wall Street, bad for the rest of us. And which side is Obama on ?
52
I know nothing of the new deal but if its like everything else under Obama, we are getting the short stick again.
5
Despite your preface that you "know nothing" about this deal you excoriate all things "Obama". Perhaps all of your generalizations in this regard are also a function of your "knowing nothing". Prejudical bias is a product of such ignorance.
2
In this intimately interconnected world to believe that we can create an island of prosperity and stability while beggaring the rest of the world is delusional. Rather than failing to realize that, nowadays, we really are all ONE (which, surprisingly, is a particular failure of so-called progressives), we should seek to (i) create jobs which can't be exported (see infrastructure) and (ii) to increase the wages of retail and restaurant workers so that additional local jobs are created and (iii) to invest in education and (iv) tax the heck out of the greedy rich (who are the ones primarily benefiting from world-wide trade) and redistribute to the deserving poor and lower middle class.
137
The poor and the middle class don't deserve money any more than the rich deserve money. I agree with the rest of your post.
1
Some observations:
Infrastructure: Thanks in large part to Republicans (so-called because they are no Tea Partiers), there is no money for infrastructure, certainly not enough to make an economic impact over the long run.
Wage Increases: Great idea, and I'm all for it, but the conclusion that it will create additional local jobs is unwarranted.
Education: You're joking, right? State governments across the US have been gutting education funding for decades. Where is this new education funding going to come from?
Tax the greedy: Absolutely. Where is the Congressional will to make that happen?
So, since none of what you propose is possible in the current and foreseeable climate, tell me again how the TPP is going to work? BTW, so instead of beggaring the rest of the world, the rest of the world gets to beggar us. Sure, we live in an interconnected world, but economically we are in a race to the bottom.
Infrastructure: Thanks in large part to Republicans (so-called because they are no Tea Partiers), there is no money for infrastructure, certainly not enough to make an economic impact over the long run.
Wage Increases: Great idea, and I'm all for it, but the conclusion that it will create additional local jobs is unwarranted.
Education: You're joking, right? State governments across the US have been gutting education funding for decades. Where is this new education funding going to come from?
Tax the greedy: Absolutely. Where is the Congressional will to make that happen?
So, since none of what you propose is possible in the current and foreseeable climate, tell me again how the TPP is going to work? BTW, so instead of beggaring the rest of the world, the rest of the world gets to beggar us. Sure, we live in an interconnected world, but economically we are in a race to the bottom.
It is manufacturing that is the core of modern prosperity, not service jobs, which are no more productive here than they are in Bangladesh. And we can't import the products of factories abroad unless we also export products -- which you can't do with service jobs. Right now, about all we can export are food and intellectual property, which is then taken from us and used to compete against us.
Having written the White House several times to express my concerns with this pact, I guess we will just have to see what the actual details are.
One would think that Obama would not want to see his legacy tarnished by being associated with an agreement that harmed American consumers and workers - but I guess we'll all have to stay tuned to find out, and then command our congressmen and senators to vote accordingly.
One would think that Obama would not want to see his legacy tarnished by being associated with an agreement that harmed American consumers and workers - but I guess we'll all have to stay tuned to find out, and then command our congressmen and senators to vote accordingly.
5
A person with a brain. Bravo.
Obama did not even try to get Medicare of all, or any single payer system, because he only had super majorities in both houses and couldn't count on every senator. He didn't even bother to try whip them into line. Revealing to see what he deems so critical that he pulls out all the Presidential stops. This will not pull other countries up to our level. It will drop the trap door for us straight down to theirs.
If this was anything but a betrayal of our principles and our middle class it would have had its own logo and theme music on CNN long ago. We aren't allowed to know what is in the deal. Once again,we have to pass it to see what's in it (and even then we won't find our for four years).
Shameful.
If this was anything but a betrayal of our principles and our middle class it would have had its own logo and theme music on CNN long ago. We aren't allowed to know what is in the deal. Once again,we have to pass it to see what's in it (and even then we won't find our for four years).
Shameful.
12
The article contasins very clear indications of two important points, several crucial points of the TPP, extension of patents protections for drugs, ISSD (Investor State Settlement Dispute) and the litte "trade" in this Trojan Horse trade deal opening the dairy markets in Canada, have NOT been fully resolved.
Next, most of the still remaining points of contention have been glossed over to faciliatate the overdue press release as reports the TPP was bogged down appeared in the press. This is evidenced by the article stating there are still months of "drafting" before the final draft of the TPP will be ready for sign off by the participants and release. As anyone who has been involoved in msajor transactions with multiple parties can attest the provebial "devils" are in the language of the agreement.
President Obama is making a serious mistake hanging his political hat and presidential legacy on passage of the TPP. A confluence of political events are coalescing into a perfect storm in front of Prresident Obama's fast track path for the TPP. The months of drafting of the TPP will put debate of the agreement right in the begining of the presidential primaries for Democrats and Republicans. Hillary Clinton has several vulnerabilities on the TPP. The tone of the Republican Party President Obama relied on for fast track passsage has shifted to adversarial with the resignation of Mr. Boehner. Mr. McConnell will be under intense pressure to make the TPP fail in the Senate.
Next, most of the still remaining points of contention have been glossed over to faciliatate the overdue press release as reports the TPP was bogged down appeared in the press. This is evidenced by the article stating there are still months of "drafting" before the final draft of the TPP will be ready for sign off by the participants and release. As anyone who has been involoved in msajor transactions with multiple parties can attest the provebial "devils" are in the language of the agreement.
President Obama is making a serious mistake hanging his political hat and presidential legacy on passage of the TPP. A confluence of political events are coalescing into a perfect storm in front of Prresident Obama's fast track path for the TPP. The months of drafting of the TPP will put debate of the agreement right in the begining of the presidential primaries for Democrats and Republicans. Hillary Clinton has several vulnerabilities on the TPP. The tone of the Republican Party President Obama relied on for fast track passsage has shifted to adversarial with the resignation of Mr. Boehner. Mr. McConnell will be under intense pressure to make the TPP fail in the Senate.
5
I worked for a ERP development company in St. Paul MN. When the company decide to open its outsource location in India, lot of employees here in St Paul started ranting against all the employees and they were successful in closing the offshore center in India but the company moved its location to Makati Philippines. Now St Paul location is completely closed. Usually Indian outsourcing is not bad as we all think. Most of the Indians come and work here at one point of time and thus keeping the job here. However, the jobs we lost to Asian countries like China, Philippines, Indonesia are not coming back.
2
Hear that gaint sucking sound that is the sound of the jobs going out the door. Ross Perot was right in 1992 if only the Americans would have listened to him we might be in a better position today.
5
Why don't we wait and see what the deal actually says before immediately discounting it. And then once we're informed, we can contact our representatives and ask them to vote one way or another. That's how it's supposed to work, in theory.
2
This will make CEO's billions of dollars.
For 90% of america, this is bad news. More stagnant wages, more outsourced jobs. More H1B visa workers depressing wages of skilled STEM fields.
Billions of dollars in taxes and fees, that could be spent on crumbling infrastructure and healthcare for everyone, going directly into CEO's pockets.
What a great deal for the earth.
For 90% of america, this is bad news. More stagnant wages, more outsourced jobs. More H1B visa workers depressing wages of skilled STEM fields.
Billions of dollars in taxes and fees, that could be spent on crumbling infrastructure and healthcare for everyone, going directly into CEO's pockets.
What a great deal for the earth.
19
I can't wait for the Times to put a team of reporters on this as soon as they can get their hands on it. If the deal is anything close to fair, it will upset every special interest group in the world. Currently, the deck is stacked. Each and every group wants to keep its perks. Each and every elected official is controlled by these groups on a local basis. That's probably why the thing was kept secret and cannot be changed. If we had a functioning Congress that acted for the common good of the nation, the deal could have been conducted out in the open by Congress. That is not the case. They can't even pass a budget.
I reserve judgement until we can see what is in it. I'm sure there will be something there that upsets nearly everyone. It must be evaluated in total and as a net compromise. The Congress has long forgotten what compromise means.
I reserve judgement until we can see what is in it. I'm sure there will be something there that upsets nearly everyone. It must be evaluated in total and as a net compromise. The Congress has long forgotten what compromise means.
4
Every other thing this president has done lines up perfectly with one specific goal: destroying the chance of American workers to get a job, This secret, sinister-looking deal looks as if it is to insure that an American worker doesn't find a manufacturing job for the rest of the century.
This is one of the deals that will have to be erased when it comes time for our workers to get paid to work. The ONLY question is whether this huge change happens at a time of our choosing or as a result of a wartime cessation of all shipping.
Should we amend the Constitution to deny all future presidents the chance to even have secrets from Congress? And should Congress members always have the righ to discuss ALL issues openly?
The other thing that this bill shouts is insider deal-making. How many more millions of dollars do the Pelosi family need? Their health-care insider dealmaking already reeks to high heaven. How thoroughly corrupted can Democratic Congressmembers and Republican Senators be?
The war now is between D,C, insiders and the rest of the country. We should vote with the worker.
This is one of the deals that will have to be erased when it comes time for our workers to get paid to work. The ONLY question is whether this huge change happens at a time of our choosing or as a result of a wartime cessation of all shipping.
Should we amend the Constitution to deny all future presidents the chance to even have secrets from Congress? And should Congress members always have the righ to discuss ALL issues openly?
The other thing that this bill shouts is insider deal-making. How many more millions of dollars do the Pelosi family need? Their health-care insider dealmaking already reeks to high heaven. How thoroughly corrupted can Democratic Congressmembers and Republican Senators be?
The war now is between D,C, insiders and the rest of the country. We should vote with the worker.
6
Wow...I was unemployed with little hope after the 2007/2007 collapse, I at least have a job now and things are better for most of the people I know than when President Bush left office. I don't necessarily think Obama is great or anything but seriously, what a bilious slag heap he inherited with half the nation willing to sell everyone down the river if they could make Obama fail. What is wrong with a group that would hurt it's own country on purpose in the blind pursuit of revenge. fear of losing dominance and just plain old immature hurt feelings.
2
" is a potentially legacy-making achievement for President Obama..."
Yeah. President Sellout.
Yeah. President Sellout.
11
Now the question is: how will TPP land in Congress and play into the Presidential elections manoeuvers?
3
Just as Bill Clinton turned out being, President Obama is such a disappointment.
As candidates Clinton and Obama talked about the ideals, goals and values of expanding economic opportunities for all Americans, but once in office they spent most of their political capital, efforts and time serving the economic interests of Wall Street and multi-national corporations. Their self-interested and short-sided focus coupled with Republican policies that furthered economic inequality among Americans during the last 30 years we find ourselves living in a nation where 1% of the population owns 80% of the nation's wealth.
It's time we enact public policies and programs that bust-up that obscene wealth gap and make America more fair, equal and productive. It's not the time to focus on policies that enhance the wealth of the Wall Street and corporate class.
I'm talking about enacting public policies based on big ideas that cause real systematic change for the common good - think FDR (Social Security), Truman (the GI Bill), JFK (civil rights) and LBJ (the War on Poverty).
The best strategy for the common good of all Americans: Defeat the Obama/Clinton Trans-Pacific Partnership (Don't let another Clinton fool you - Hillary worked for this trade agreement), support Bernie Sanders for President and support efforts to elect a democratic congress.
As candidates Clinton and Obama talked about the ideals, goals and values of expanding economic opportunities for all Americans, but once in office they spent most of their political capital, efforts and time serving the economic interests of Wall Street and multi-national corporations. Their self-interested and short-sided focus coupled with Republican policies that furthered economic inequality among Americans during the last 30 years we find ourselves living in a nation where 1% of the population owns 80% of the nation's wealth.
It's time we enact public policies and programs that bust-up that obscene wealth gap and make America more fair, equal and productive. It's not the time to focus on policies that enhance the wealth of the Wall Street and corporate class.
I'm talking about enacting public policies based on big ideas that cause real systematic change for the common good - think FDR (Social Security), Truman (the GI Bill), JFK (civil rights) and LBJ (the War on Poverty).
The best strategy for the common good of all Americans: Defeat the Obama/Clinton Trans-Pacific Partnership (Don't let another Clinton fool you - Hillary worked for this trade agreement), support Bernie Sanders for President and support efforts to elect a democratic congress.
25
Joe Biden's support of TPP should end any of his presidential ambitions. This trade trade agreement is a sellout of American workers.
13
Best thing going for Trump, is Obama's self-righteous need to create a legacy for his tenure. He'd rather kill the American worker, than kill the deal.
11
And if more jobs move out of the US, who is going to buy all this stuff? The person in the sweatshop making $0.50/hour? Eventually this whole system has to collapse.
11
A relatively free people with lots of resources both natural and produced by human ingenuity should never fear competition. Wages are a small part of the equation. Sound law, availability of education and research along with open capital markets put the US in position to compete favorably in any corner of the world. The fear mongering is the sign of a weak people with no spine to get up, go to work and compete. We can and we will.
We have always out produced the rest of the world when we put our minds to it.
We have always out produced the rest of the world when we put our minds to it.
3
China has more laborers than the USA has populace, they also tend work 16 hours a day. We lost 90% of all out manufacturing over the past 30ish years. Even if we start today rebuilding it we won't beat them any year soon.
The Trans Pacific Pact ( TPP) boasted as a 'free trade' agreement between 11 Pacific countries is not at all a 'free trade'.
All these years the negotiations among participating countries have been surrounded with a veil of secrecy.If it is a free trade deal why 'veil ' of secrecy?Even now when the deal is presumed to have reached, détails remain secret to public.Democracy is run by oligarchs.TPP testifies.
From leaks it looks almost certain that the workers,unions,consumers and environmental concers have been compromised in favor of powerful business lobbies.Lobbyists were monitoring the agreement and its development at each twist and turn.
It seems,from filtered items, that the TPP has been designed to manage trade for Pharmaceutical companies and Tobacco companies.
The TPP, a most sinister for the common man, is designed Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) systems to preserve the financial advantage of international multinational corporate in places where rule of law and credible courts are lacking.
The USA has bowed down, pressure of pharmaceuticals, to reduce its demand of exclusive data rights.This has allowed mega-pharmaceuticals to market their products at a high cost.Thus, tremendous set back for generics drug industry which cater affordable,low-priced drugs as quickly as possible.
Doctors Without Frontiers said,"The main goal of the industry is to deny generics competition and make prices higher". The TPP has executed just that.
The US public must look.
All these years the negotiations among participating countries have been surrounded with a veil of secrecy.If it is a free trade deal why 'veil ' of secrecy?Even now when the deal is presumed to have reached, détails remain secret to public.Democracy is run by oligarchs.TPP testifies.
From leaks it looks almost certain that the workers,unions,consumers and environmental concers have been compromised in favor of powerful business lobbies.Lobbyists were monitoring the agreement and its development at each twist and turn.
It seems,from filtered items, that the TPP has been designed to manage trade for Pharmaceutical companies and Tobacco companies.
The TPP, a most sinister for the common man, is designed Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) systems to preserve the financial advantage of international multinational corporate in places where rule of law and credible courts are lacking.
The USA has bowed down, pressure of pharmaceuticals, to reduce its demand of exclusive data rights.This has allowed mega-pharmaceuticals to market their products at a high cost.Thus, tremendous set back for generics drug industry which cater affordable,low-priced drugs as quickly as possible.
Doctors Without Frontiers said,"The main goal of the industry is to deny generics competition and make prices higher". The TPP has executed just that.
The US public must look.
13
When an industry becomes a threat to the public health, the government has sometimes stepped in to regulate it. That was often the case for the storied "muckrakers," such as Lincoln Steffens and Ida Tarbell, which brought us the Pure Food and Drug Act. If there is government intent to regulate "Big Pharma,"whose gross profiteering at the expense of the public health, was the subject of last week's "The Strip" Editorial cartoon, the time may have come for public ownership of the pharmaceutical industry. Given the increasing concentration of the health insurance industry into an oligopoly, that would be a perfect companion to a "single-payer" health care system, such as that which operates in Canada. I'm certain that Bernie Sanders would approve!
A sad day for America. This corporate "free trade" deal will continue and accelerate the undermining and destruction of our middle and working classes, along with all the pathologies coursing through our economy. It is a neoliberal deal of, by and for the 1%. In addition, it will also undermine our national sovereignty by permitting corporations to continue creating private common law in private kangaroo courts presided over by corporate lawyers. They are empowered to sue our governments, federal, state and local, for damages if our laws cost them money. It is hard to believe that anyone but the super rich thinks this is a good idea for America. How President Obama can support this boondoggle and claim to be a champion of the middle class is beyond me.
290
How do you tag liberals -- or neoliberals, whoever they are -- with supporting the 1%? It's the conservative GOP who supports the 1%. (Unless the poster is a shill for the Koch Bros.)
5
I agree - but have to add this: there is more liberal agenda in these "free" trade pact then simple globalist corporatism and that is why the Obama administration has been pushing these pacts. Radical environmental laws not approved by Congress (back door Copenhagen treaty) (that only apply to U.S)., laws pertaining to immigration that have not been passed by Congress - such as a massive increase in immigration and visas for mid and high skill workers to replace American citizens. These are just a couple of example of the Radical globalist Left side of the Pacific (and Atlantic) NWO pacts.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/20/sen-sessions-myth-bus...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/20/sen-sessions-myth-bus...
4
He lost me forever with this.
5
It is past time for Americans to start "local" companies that provide safe food to their communities and the nation, safe building materials, safe everything. The companies should be work-sustainable true employee-owned businesses with every employee sharing equitably in responsibility and profit. No outside "investors" to suck up the profits and demand more and more to feed their psychosis. It is also time to nationalize OUR natural resources and business categories that people rely on every day - including electricity, water, communications, housing, food, health care, education - to protect them from being put on the "global" market for pure profit for the 1% global financial elite.
140
The increasing cost of government regulation is often too burdensome for local owners and demonstrably benefits large entrenched companies who care more about profit than people. That's how state and federal governments really pay back their corporate sponsors.
4
Cause nationalizing industries has been so helpful in the past... Any student of history understands nationalized industries typically perform poorly and result in poor quality and quantity of goods and services.
Yes---absolutely, but then "everyone" complains of the high cost of good local products, and they go shop at Walmart. I don't make a lot of money, but I allocate a significant portion of my income to buying good local and organic. That means I don't buy a lot of other things--no weekly trips to big box stores.
Please take care of the American worker.
25
but Mother Earth first!
Wait...what?
Are you saying that our workers in the USA need special protection? As we do with rare species of owls and sea turtles? Wrong!
We are all members of the global community. We are in equal competition with every country. We are not fragile flowers needing our country’s protection.
However we must now take our public education seriously! Our children are NOT prepared to compete with other children.
"32 percent of U.S. public and private-school students in the class of 2011 are deemed proficient in mathematics, placing the United States 32nd among the 65 nations that participated in the latest international tests administered by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The United States ranks between Portugal and Italy and far behind South Korea, Finland, Canada, and the Netherlands, to say nothing of the city of Shanghai, with its 75 percent proficiency rate.”
http://www.newsweek.com/why-cant-us-students-compete-rest-world-67213
New York City has a 64% high school graduation rate! Our kids can’t write a complete sentence, no longer read newspapers, magazines, or books. Most millennials say they get all their news off Youtube! Discovering water on Mars was a “meh” moment for most Americans under 40!
It is all of our fault that we are behind the rest of the world. Protect our workers? How very sad!
Are you saying that our workers in the USA need special protection? As we do with rare species of owls and sea turtles? Wrong!
We are all members of the global community. We are in equal competition with every country. We are not fragile flowers needing our country’s protection.
However we must now take our public education seriously! Our children are NOT prepared to compete with other children.
"32 percent of U.S. public and private-school students in the class of 2011 are deemed proficient in mathematics, placing the United States 32nd among the 65 nations that participated in the latest international tests administered by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). The United States ranks between Portugal and Italy and far behind South Korea, Finland, Canada, and the Netherlands, to say nothing of the city of Shanghai, with its 75 percent proficiency rate.”
http://www.newsweek.com/why-cant-us-students-compete-rest-world-67213
New York City has a 64% high school graduation rate! Our kids can’t write a complete sentence, no longer read newspapers, magazines, or books. Most millennials say they get all their news off Youtube! Discovering water on Mars was a “meh” moment for most Americans under 40!
It is all of our fault that we are behind the rest of the world. Protect our workers? How very sad!
1
No worries, the TPP certainly takes care of the financial liability which is the American worker.
4
one thing for sure currencies manipulations have not been addressed.
8
" is a potentially legacy-making achievement for President Obama, "
What a sad joke. You actually printed that? TPP will be remembered as Obama sticking the knife into the remaining manufacturing jobs and middle class.
Stick a fork in the Dems. They have proven to be just as bad as the GOP so why bother voting for them? ACA? My premiums have skyrocketed now whatever hope I had of working again is gone.
What a sad joke. You actually printed that? TPP will be remembered as Obama sticking the knife into the remaining manufacturing jobs and middle class.
Stick a fork in the Dems. They have proven to be just as bad as the GOP so why bother voting for them? ACA? My premiums have skyrocketed now whatever hope I had of working again is gone.
68
..completely turning his back on his "base" and their children and grandchildren...and on Mother Earth...so very sad...
1
Vote Bernie Sanders! That's what we do. I am disgusted by Obama after All. Despite all his sense on not wanting more wars, fighting NRA and racism, helping gays etc . This bad decision is like the 1938 Munich agreement. A catastrophe and a betrayal!
Great. Now we can move on to defeating the pact in the up or down vote. Or am I engaging in wishful thinking? The special interests will now come out to do their dirty work. Hopefully The Donald will mobilize his troops to kill the pact. You know The Donald will be on the 'killing' side.
7
Now we can begin the countdown to the loss of even more US jobs. It is time to stop the 1%.
64
It's strange and unfortunate that so many people are opposed to this agreement that opens up trade between the US and many other countries. What's unfortunate is that so many opponents attribute the inexorable movement of jobs in the past 20 years to another trade deal, NAFTA, when most of the jobs went east, not south (or north). Because of this deal all of us will be ever to buy cheaper products BUT more importantly our businesses will be more competitive, able to sell our products to others more easily. On balance, reduced barriers to trade is good for the country.
63
Haven't you noticed the Doomsday scenario people who come out against literally everything? 'don't tell me about this, don't tell me about that.' "my life has never been worse since Obama took office.' 'He's the devil incarnate.' 'He hate middle America.' 'He's a Muslim.' 'The government is taking all of my money, my freedom, my life, so I'd better arm myself and vote for Donald Trump.' How many times do people have to throw out the same scary scenarios, miserable outcomes, horror stories of Obamacare, plots by the government, before it all just sounds like the same loud, igonorant voice? Over and over again. That's called an inability to think.
4
Agreed. First understand that 70% of Canada's economy is owned, controlled by or dependant upon US interests. Then read any Canadian newspaper in the last 20 years and you will find stories of factories belonging to US companies closing in Canada and production shifting back to the US or overseas. Free trade has been a great deal for someone but it is not always your trading partners.
1
MktGuy,
What exactly do you expect us to sell to people who make 10% or less of what Americans do? I guess, well, if you assume that we're destroying all manufacturing in the US then outsourcing sales makes sense, but mitigating the disaster the last few "free trade" deals have been is not a positive, it's doing the same thing.
What exactly do you expect us to sell to people who make 10% or less of what Americans do? I guess, well, if you assume that we're destroying all manufacturing in the US then outsourcing sales makes sense, but mitigating the disaster the last few "free trade" deals have been is not a positive, it's doing the same thing.
1
This agreement is a disaster with huge, huge negatives, but it will only be after the fact, when communities' rights as sovereign entities (e.g., to pass laws restricting the use of certain chemicals in their areas, or to stop industrial processes like fracking) are limited, lawsuits filed, and huge fines incurred that the American public will wake up to just how bad this is. For anyone wanting clarity, go to John Oliver's phenomenal video segment from "Last Week Tonight" (HBO) from earlier this year on Australia's efforts to pass labeling laws concerning the harmful effects of cigarettes. They prevailed, and smoking rights fell dramatically, but then Big Tobacco came in to reclaim "lost profits" from brand disruption. Here's the clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UsHHOCH4q8.
American attention spans are not long enough to fixate on the complexities wrought here, but make no mistake, as Obama's first Trade Representative famously said on leaving his position, (paraphrased) "If the American people knew what was in this agreement they'd be dead set against it." So why is our president for it? It boggles the mind. Giving away our sovereignty to a "trade court" made up of lawyers from the companies that have pushed for this agreement is not something the United States of America should be for. This is anti-democratic, and frankly, despotic, only good for the corporations driving the day. The outcomes, despite blather about protecting this, that, & people, will not be good.
American attention spans are not long enough to fixate on the complexities wrought here, but make no mistake, as Obama's first Trade Representative famously said on leaving his position, (paraphrased) "If the American people knew what was in this agreement they'd be dead set against it." So why is our president for it? It boggles the mind. Giving away our sovereignty to a "trade court" made up of lawyers from the companies that have pushed for this agreement is not something the United States of America should be for. This is anti-democratic, and frankly, despotic, only good for the corporations driving the day. The outcomes, despite blather about protecting this, that, & people, will not be good.
95
Thanks for the clip!
1
Once again Obama reveals his subservience to the corporatocracy that runs this country - as well as most of the (un)civilized world. Even fellow Dems are against the TPP due to the secret negotiations, the bias of the rules written to favor the corporations that will benefit the most, and the most troubling aspect of the TPP that gives corporations more power than sovereign nations.
According to Ellen Brown, a prominent advocate of financial reform, "The Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provision, which first appeared in a bilateral trade agreement in 1959(!!!) gives foreign firms a special right to apply to a secretive tribunal of highly paid corporate lawyers for compensation whenever the (actually ANY) government passes a law … that potentially negatively impacts corporate profits — such things as discouraging smoking, protecting the environment or preventing nuclear catastrophe."
A law that has the "potential" to impact corporate profits…not even an actual impact. All that is needed is the corporation to say they will lose money, and states, cities, countries, and pretty much anything other than a corporation, will be and can be taken to court and sued. The TTP's provisions and tactics undermine Constitutional safeguards and national sovereignty.
But the good news: The TPP exposes who, in our illustrious Senate and Congress, is working for whom. Politicians have to put their"cards on the table," and by this we will know who they are in bed with.
According to Ellen Brown, a prominent advocate of financial reform, "The Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provision, which first appeared in a bilateral trade agreement in 1959(!!!) gives foreign firms a special right to apply to a secretive tribunal of highly paid corporate lawyers for compensation whenever the (actually ANY) government passes a law … that potentially negatively impacts corporate profits — such things as discouraging smoking, protecting the environment or preventing nuclear catastrophe."
A law that has the "potential" to impact corporate profits…not even an actual impact. All that is needed is the corporation to say they will lose money, and states, cities, countries, and pretty much anything other than a corporation, will be and can be taken to court and sued. The TTP's provisions and tactics undermine Constitutional safeguards and national sovereignty.
But the good news: The TPP exposes who, in our illustrious Senate and Congress, is working for whom. Politicians have to put their"cards on the table," and by this we will know who they are in bed with.
158
So long, whatever's left of the middle class. Don't let the door hit you on your behind!
14
Hold the door for your corporate masters and make sure to bow at the waist.
3
Does ratification of this treaty require 1/3rds of the Senate (like the treaty with Iran), half the Senate (like laws), or 2/3rds, as the US Constitution seem to require? Does it require both the House and the Senate, which it doesn't seem like it should since it's a Treaty? If it doesn't require 2/3rds of the Senate is it then not a treaty and can be undone by a simple majority of Congress or overruled like any other law?
2
The winds of change are a comin' but not in the direction Bob Dylan meant.
Here's to the restructuring of the world to purist capitalism. The TPP is to capitalism what North Korea is to communism today. Welcome to a unfettered capitalistic world of the cheapest labor, but most important, the newly gained power of corporations to sue governments for hindering their business operations and profits. The governments of nation-states will now be "trumped" by the power of corporations and business. It's called Corporatocracy or "an economic and political system controlled by corporations and/or corporate interests."
For example, take hydrofracking--should your pristine, bucolic village or even state decide to ban fracking--in the name of citizens' health, agriculture, the protection of businesses that depend on fresh water such as the wine industry here in NY, the contamination of wells and gigantic fresh-water aquifers, and the storage of millions of gallons of fracking waste water that no one wants or knows what do to with--the Big Gas corporations will merely sue your village/town/state because it hindered corporate business and profits. A carefully selected tribunal will decide the outcome, not government.
It's deep-pockets corporate's team of highly paid lawyers vs. your local town government lawyer or some lawyer with a heart willing to take reduced fees that the citizens can scrape together to fight Corporate.
TPP Scoreboard: Corporations 12; Government 2; Citizens 0
Here's to the restructuring of the world to purist capitalism. The TPP is to capitalism what North Korea is to communism today. Welcome to a unfettered capitalistic world of the cheapest labor, but most important, the newly gained power of corporations to sue governments for hindering their business operations and profits. The governments of nation-states will now be "trumped" by the power of corporations and business. It's called Corporatocracy or "an economic and political system controlled by corporations and/or corporate interests."
For example, take hydrofracking--should your pristine, bucolic village or even state decide to ban fracking--in the name of citizens' health, agriculture, the protection of businesses that depend on fresh water such as the wine industry here in NY, the contamination of wells and gigantic fresh-water aquifers, and the storage of millions of gallons of fracking waste water that no one wants or knows what do to with--the Big Gas corporations will merely sue your village/town/state because it hindered corporate business and profits. A carefully selected tribunal will decide the outcome, not government.
It's deep-pockets corporate's team of highly paid lawyers vs. your local town government lawyer or some lawyer with a heart willing to take reduced fees that the citizens can scrape together to fight Corporate.
TPP Scoreboard: Corporations 12; Government 2; Citizens 0
58
Really, we only have hints of what this deal means until we get the full text. Until then, people seem to be shouting out their opinions, basically judging it by its name, or what they've read in the press.
...some of the "deal" has been made available via Wikileaks. have a look...
1
Not basically judging it by its name. Portions of the text have been leaked, thanks to WikiLeaks. This is a raw deal not only for US citizens but for all citizens of the signatory countries. It's a gift to multi-national corporations, all tied up with a big bow.
1
The American people are to have access to the final TPP text for 60 days --- before the final vote.
If at that time…when we “all” finally have access to the actual details of the TPP– One would hope that “All” of our representatives would responsibly re-evaluate their positions - especially in light of full access and better tools to evaluate the greater and potentially devastating ramifications of passing the agreement.
Even with the lower bar of “Fast-Track Authority” the revealed details of the TPP may be so egregious as to not allow a simple majority of our representatives to support it in the final vote this fall - regardless of recent pragmatic promises they may have made to leadership in the recent passage of “Fast-Track.”
The attempt at passage of the TPP is only beginning!
In what we currently now know about the TPP, TTiP, and Obama Trade: it harms seniors, condones slavery and human trafficking, destroys America’s sovereignty, potentially limits the availability of generic drugs, permanently protects the banking oligarchy, limits our own nation’s ability to control immigration, and fails to address currency manipulation.
What more will we find when we “all’ finally get to see it? .
We must defeat the TPP and ObamaTrade!
If at that time…when we “all” finally have access to the actual details of the TPP– One would hope that “All” of our representatives would responsibly re-evaluate their positions - especially in light of full access and better tools to evaluate the greater and potentially devastating ramifications of passing the agreement.
Even with the lower bar of “Fast-Track Authority” the revealed details of the TPP may be so egregious as to not allow a simple majority of our representatives to support it in the final vote this fall - regardless of recent pragmatic promises they may have made to leadership in the recent passage of “Fast-Track.”
The attempt at passage of the TPP is only beginning!
In what we currently now know about the TPP, TTiP, and Obama Trade: it harms seniors, condones slavery and human trafficking, destroys America’s sovereignty, potentially limits the availability of generic drugs, permanently protects the banking oligarchy, limits our own nation’s ability to control immigration, and fails to address currency manipulation.
What more will we find when we “all’ finally get to see it? .
We must defeat the TPP and ObamaTrade!
33
Wait till you see the TISA deal.
The TPP still retains a strong pro-corporate, anti-public flavor, and the "fast track" approval that President Obama won for it last May only confirms this.
The TPP's on-going secrecy makes clear that it is Big Business with its near-infinite money and lawyers who rule, while the general public is left out of their closed-door negotiations.
What the dealmakers forget is that their own fortunes have come from the general public, the countless millions and millions of hard-working people who play by the rules, pay taxes, and buy their products.
A serious point of contention has been the United States unilateral insistence on 12-year-long patent protection periods for big pharma. The other eleven countries in the TPP have opposed this -- and rightly so. We shall see who will prevail in the end.
No surprise to learn that big pharma favors mostly American interests.
oz.
The TPP's on-going secrecy makes clear that it is Big Business with its near-infinite money and lawyers who rule, while the general public is left out of their closed-door negotiations.
What the dealmakers forget is that their own fortunes have come from the general public, the countless millions and millions of hard-working people who play by the rules, pay taxes, and buy their products.
A serious point of contention has been the United States unilateral insistence on 12-year-long patent protection periods for big pharma. The other eleven countries in the TPP have opposed this -- and rightly so. We shall see who will prevail in the end.
No surprise to learn that big pharma favors mostly American interests.
oz.
11
The deal makers have moved on to world markets now and don't need America as much, even as they continue to prosper because of our political stability, police and military protection. Their loyalty and patriotism are attenuated by their economic interests.
1
This "partnership trade deal" is just another giveaway by Obama to developing nations that will never comply with their end of the bargain. Once again Obama is fooled into believing that his grand foreign policy goals will work if the U.S. gives away enough in incentives. The signers of the agreement will take all the U.S. is willing to give, and give nothing tangible in return. And we are suckers again, thanks to this president.
9
(continuation of the headline) which the Pacific signatories will promptly and completely ignore if following the agreement leads to them being less competitive in the global marketplace. United States you are a sucker again!
8
The cat that got the canaries look on President Obama's face does not bode well for working Americans.
32
This is yet another gift from our Democratic Administration to big business. The entirety of the TPP deal is secret, but it is partially available via Wikileaks. Techdirt has a great rundown on the many deficiencies and negative consequences to people:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150325/17151130431/corporate-soverei...
While I sort of like President Obama, he's pretty much aligned with big business and against the average person. Obamacare should have been done through Medicare not private insurance companies no one ever heard of (there's a zillion of them). And this is more of the same. it will result in higher drug prices and a loss of national sovereignty.
The fact this deal has been secret says enough.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150325/17151130431/corporate-soverei...
While I sort of like President Obama, he's pretty much aligned with big business and against the average person. Obamacare should have been done through Medicare not private insurance companies no one ever heard of (there's a zillion of them). And this is more of the same. it will result in higher drug prices and a loss of national sovereignty.
The fact this deal has been secret says enough.
34
..."pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..I am the great and powerful..."...
The Clintons sent millions of American jobs overseas with their NAFTA, CAFTA and GATT trade agreements. Now we'll see if President Obama can outdo the Clintons and send even more millions of American jobs overseas.
63
The jobs were going to go overseas anyway, with or without the agreements.
According to its foes, NAFTA was supposed to cause massive job loss in the US. Ross Perot, the 1980s version of Donald Trump, talked about the "massive sucking sound" of jobs being lost to Mexico. It never happened. No economic study of NAFTA has ever borne out the hyopthesis that it caused major job losses. Nor did it result in the gains some expected. The fact is, on balance such deals have only marginal real world effects - but those they do have are positive.
3
There are fools even in Paris.
1
This is just flat out wrong. Where are you getting your facts? NAFTA has cost us millions of jobs and tens of thousands of conpanies.
1
Jobs didn't go to Mexico, and their people come in the millions. HA!
1
How bad can it be? Just because the liberals don't like it, the conservatives don't like it, Democrats don't like it and Republicans don't like it doesn't mean it is bad. haven't you read it? Oh, yeh, it is still secret. But President Obama would never do something for the special interest supporters and turn his back on American people, would he? Come on, there will be a committee to assist smaller companies. A committee.
40
Quite simply:
Why was this deal concocted in total secrecy?
That's all one has to ask...if this is such a great deal, why aren't details being exposed to sunlight?
Res ipsa loquitur. ("The thing speaks for itself").
Disgraceful
Why was this deal concocted in total secrecy?
That's all one has to ask...if this is such a great deal, why aren't details being exposed to sunlight?
Res ipsa loquitur. ("The thing speaks for itself").
Disgraceful
133
"Why was this deal concocted in total secrecy?"....Can you name a negotiation that was carried out in public? You can't carry out meaningful negotiations in a public forum, and it is the final product that counts, not how you happened to get there. If the final product is made public your concerns are not warranted.
2
It was not concocted in total secrecy. What you're talking about is diplomacy. There were many articles written about it, and, for a while, it seemed like it would not happen. Would you like me to post some links to past articles?
What does our government do that is not done secretly? Legislatures have public debate but they cut their agreements in the cloakrooms and lobbys and in staff meetings. The Supreme Court decides based on internal votes and memoranda.
Executives discuss things with their staffs and advisors in private.
You sound a tad naive.
Executives discuss things with their staffs and advisors in private.
You sound a tad naive.
Trade barriers prop up inefficient producers. There is free trade among the 50 states of the United States. Such free trade has helped the United States become a first-class economy (despite some current difficulties). Do you drive a Japanese car? If so, perhaps you believe that Japanese cars -- even those made in America -- are better. Let the consumer decide what car to buy, not the government.
5
As long as the government has checks in place to make sure that carmakers don't cheat--otherwise the consumer gets bilked until the company is caught.
1
When everything is manufactured outside the US we really have no choice, do we?
I'm old enough to know the harm that NAFTA did to our nation. It incentivised and accelerated the exodus of business in the great race to the bottom line.
I will remember this as the Obama Trade agreement for his exhaustive furtherance of it.
Everything I know tells me this will be catastrophic to our nation as it is contrary to the Capitalist idea of Competition. I consider it Communist actually.
I sure hope I am proven wrong, for the sake of our nation.
I will remember this as the Obama Trade agreement for his exhaustive furtherance of it.
Everything I know tells me this will be catastrophic to our nation as it is contrary to the Capitalist idea of Competition. I consider it Communist actually.
I sure hope I am proven wrong, for the sake of our nation.
41
Looks promising; many of the major labour, environmental, and tobacco concerns seem to be addressed. But I will wait for a detailed analysis of the full text to decide.
8
Lots of sky-is-falling talk from the dinosaurs. Let's see what the agreement says before we run and hide from the modern world.
14
If only we *could* see what the agreement says. We won't be allowed to read it for another four years, at which point we will already be painfully aware of the terms.
2
What more do you need to know, when the TPP cuts out American business regulations. TPP allows corporate arbitration groups to assess damages if, for example, or state limits diesel part per millions and VW loses money.
Wake up "America is an Oligarchy Run by the 1% Percent Billionaire Ruling Class", who are the Hidden Puppeteers. The President, the Congressional Members and the Supreme Court Justices are all their Puppets..! Say Goodbye to the American Middle Class as it Continues to Shrink... This Pacific Trade Agreement will Continue to Syphon Off and Decimate the Remaining American Middle Class Upward Mobility Jobs as they continue to be Outsourced to the Asia Pacific Rim, Which Will Include an expansion in Vietnam which has "Lower Human Capital Cost than China" -- You Remember Vietnam and the Wall in Washington DC that Commemorates their Dubious Wasteful Deaths...! Ask Yourself this Questions; Why is it not Considered to be Un-American when the American Puppeteers the 1% Percent Billionaire Oligarchy Ruling Class worked with their Federal Government, the Presidents, Senators and Congressman Puppets to Outsource/Offshore Millions of American "Upward Mobility Full-Time White Collar and Blue Collar Manufacturing Jobs to the Low-Cost "Human Capital Countries" around the Globe for the past 40 Years. The only Segment whose Wealth has continued to Grow While their Slave Classes Languish below them is America's 1% Percent Billionaire Ruling Class due to the Outsourcing/Offshoring of our American Middle Class Jobs ...! The American billionaire 1% class has been increasingly aggressive to take all the wealth leaving only scraps for their Slave Classes! Stop the Corrupt Oligarchy By Not Voting.!
14
how will not voting stop anything?
Or vote Bernie Sanders.
8
I'm hopeful about new policies in place to improve environmental and labor practices, but would dearly love to hear the details of how exactly these new practices are being enforced.
I am wary of a lessening of food safety standards, and the potential rush by corporations to offshore even more jobs from the US. No, there won't be enough export jobs to offset the loss of manufacturing jobs.
I expect lawsuits in our courts, against many of our environmental protections, because one thing we have that other countries want, is our raw resources. And the only thing protecting those resources, are our environmental laws.
I am wary of a lessening of food safety standards, and the potential rush by corporations to offshore even more jobs from the US. No, there won't be enough export jobs to offset the loss of manufacturing jobs.
I expect lawsuits in our courts, against many of our environmental protections, because one thing we have that other countries want, is our raw resources. And the only thing protecting those resources, are our environmental laws.
24
The TPP was drafted by and for corporations and billionaires. As a result there will be NO improvement in environment controls or anything else. Obama has completed the end of the middle class which he apparently planned long before he ascended to the presidency. I voted for this guy twice and I am furious. But he doesn't care at least HIS future is assured!
5
This is the new strategy to curtail illegal immigration. Destroy America so no one wants to come here.
8
Canada will be the biggest loser in natural resources and our beautiful national parks will be handed to the highest bidders. Goodbye forests, goodbye mineral resources , more pollution and disfigured landscapes and further destruction of the planet. Can anyone explain why creating jobs which don't exist now and will exist even less in the future? Can somebody debunk this meme talking point with some real facts and statistics?
1
Napoleon tried this. He called it the Continental System.
Exclusion backfires. It leads to war.
Given Russia's already embarrassing success in Syria, I wonder what revenge for sanctions will be.
Exclusion backfires. It leads to war.
Given Russia's already embarrassing success in Syria, I wonder what revenge for sanctions will be.
5
Sad.
Bankers and the Central Committee of the Communist Chinese Party win.
Almost everyone else loses.
But it does show that in practical terms there is little difference between a Democrat and a Republican.
Bankers and the Central Committee of the Communist Chinese Party win.
Almost everyone else loses.
But it does show that in practical terms there is little difference between a Democrat and a Republican.
122
Since the pact was specifically designed to create rules that do not include China it will in fact NOT benefit China. You keep with your mythology though.
4
Shame that economic ignorance can make its way to the Times' comments section. This trade deal is a win for the global economy, and will serve to move partner nations in the Pacific rim towards more liberal and progressive worker protections and improved qualities of life. It also serves our national security interests, which are paramount to any political ideology one may have about TPP.
Bernie Sanders has been against this and previous 'free trade' agreements from the beginning, and his entire platform is about wresting our political process away from corporate control and returning it to the citizens of this country. Don't support the corporo-Dems -- there is an alternative!
1
So are the corporations the only ones who benefit from the intellectual property copyright protections? If so, yet another coffin nail in for the lot of writers, artists, photographers, musicians, and designers then. Thanks, Obama. Oh well, at least you created a shedload of part-time, low-wage service jobs for us.
270
The writers, artists, photographers, musicians and designers didn't pay him.
3
'Oh well, at least you created a shedload of part-time, low-wage service jobs for us.'
According to the Dept of Labor those jobs have been taken by 'foreign born' workers and with the lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws, will be in the future as well.
According to the Dept of Labor those jobs have been taken by 'foreign born' workers and with the lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws, will be in the future as well.
2
I'm a creative professional in the entertainment industry with a decent 6 figure income So, no it is not only corporations (although corporations are owned by stockholders, so if you want to jump on that bandwagon, you are free to do so) but workers in these high paying, labor-intensive fields who benefit as well.
The US Media and Entertainment industry is a third of the global industry with half a trillion dollars. These are good American jobs.
The US Media and Entertainment industry is a third of the global industry with half a trillion dollars. These are good American jobs.
Its like Marx's thesis of the withering away of the state in hyperdrive. Only now capital is betting against nationalism the way communists did before WW1. The bosses probably shouldn't return those tanks to the pentagon from the Mayberry police department, after all. It's going to get very very hectic very quick once the first wave of white collar service sector jobs are efficiently outsourced.
6
I am happy to hear such a good news. Considering, all wars and bombings in MidEast and North Africa this is something positive. I know there are plenty of skeptics, but I believe this is for the best.
The TPP would do much more than "interfere with nations’ efforts to pass rules safeguarding public health and safety."
The TransPacific Pertnership---through the Investor State Dispute Settlement provision-- is designed to undermine our country's laws and democracy by giving multinational corporations the power to sue our American cities, states, and the Federal government when our laws diminish their "expected profits."
The TransPacific Pertnership---through the Investor State Dispute Settlement provision-- is designed to undermine our country's laws and democracy by giving multinational corporations the power to sue our American cities, states, and the Federal government when our laws diminish their "expected profits."
18
They already do that.
There is a lot in the TPP that weighs heavily on the side of promising. I hope (unrealistically I suspect) that everyone will take an evidence-based approach instead of knee-jerk, political fears, or letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
One particular, the 5-8 years biologics data protection, would be a huge step forward for American consumers. The current 12-year period comes out of the 2008 ACA, and is and was a wholly unreasonable balance in favor of Big Pharma.
Yes, Big Pharma needs to recoup its investment in biologics ($1B+ for a new drug compound on average), but the reality is that 5-8 years of data exclusivity is proven to be sufficient - compare to "small molecule" generics which get the same 5-8 years and which are hardly unprofitable.
Sen. Hatch is extremely knowledgable, probably the senior most Senator with actual understanding of the mechanics of the Pharma industry. I hope that he will look at the now 6-plus years of US and global (especially EU) experience on name brand versus generic biologics and temper his opposition.
One particular, the 5-8 years biologics data protection, would be a huge step forward for American consumers. The current 12-year period comes out of the 2008 ACA, and is and was a wholly unreasonable balance in favor of Big Pharma.
Yes, Big Pharma needs to recoup its investment in biologics ($1B+ for a new drug compound on average), but the reality is that 5-8 years of data exclusivity is proven to be sufficient - compare to "small molecule" generics which get the same 5-8 years and which are hardly unprofitable.
Sen. Hatch is extremely knowledgable, probably the senior most Senator with actual understanding of the mechanics of the Pharma industry. I hope that he will look at the now 6-plus years of US and global (especially EU) experience on name brand versus generic biologics and temper his opposition.
3
Transparent government. So transparent that neither Congreass nor the Times know the details in full.
65
Not even Congress currently knows the details in full. If, say, senator Elizabeth Warren wants to see what's in the TPP, she (and last I checked it has to be her, not her staff) has to go to a room in the archives with no notepad or electronic devices, read the copy that's there, commit to memory anything she thinks is important, and then go back to her office to write it down.
Meanwhile, several major corporations have been involved in the negotiations from the beginning and know all about it.
I'm not sure what's going on with this, but democracy definitely isn't.
Meanwhile, several major corporations have been involved in the negotiations from the beginning and know all about it.
I'm not sure what's going on with this, but democracy definitely isn't.
5
"Transparent government."....Are you permitted to hear what the President talks about with his advisors? When was the last time the discussions of either the Republican or Democrat caucus was made public? When were the deliberations of the Supreme Court made public? Never, and in this case the Congress has 90 days to review the final document. The noise about transparency is a bunch of baloney.
Because it hasn't been released yet. It will be in 30 days. That's totally normal. The company I worked for - a normal, non-secretive company - would work on projects, projections, etc. finish a particular paper and then take weeks to release it. You don't just type it up and post it. Please! It may be secretive but it's not because it's taking 30 days to release it.
Without an open process. this TPP will fail. Secrecy, except for certain military weapons situations, has no place here. Many groups object to this agreement. There are serious questions about drug patents for example. We are already seeing huge price increases for basic pharmaceuticals.
If Obama wants this to be successful, he must insure an open process.
In the final analysis, we really should have a treaty process.
Many wars have started over trade issues. We don't need that there.
If Obama wants this to be successful, he must insure an open process.
In the final analysis, we really should have a treaty process.
Many wars have started over trade issues. We don't need that there.
8
If the final draft is made public and Congress has 90 days to review the document, how can you possibly argue that there is a problem with secrecy?
President Obama will be leaving office soon. He needs to set up an income stream so he can live a long prosperous life as he has become accustom. It is not his fault the pension he will get will not allow his lifestyle. He doesn't have a relative who can become Secretary of State and make deals with nations who will pay him to make a speech. He certainly isn't going to be getting consulting fees for his take on economics or foreign policy. And once he is a has been Bill Ayers probably won't write his books. Oh wait, he can be a law professor. Just don't ask for references because the last time he didn't really show up much, that was really just to prop up his resume.
1
"Its full 30-chapter text will not be available for perhaps a month". This is the current state of democracy. The only way to get anything accomplished is to do it in secret.
16
Need to agree on the various required translations maybe?
Sort of like the ACA. ObamaCare was conceived in darkness, and was voted on before Members of Congress could read and digest the law.
2
That can't be right. This was to be the most transparent administration in history. Every bill, every deal was to be posted openly and debated on CSPAN before voting so the American people would be fully aware and then contact their representatives on how they feel about it. I know, I heard Obama say this so it must be true.
7
Obama's administration and other supporters cite the agreement's potential to grant the United States with more power and autonomy in global trade. But consider the inequality in this country enforced by exploitative corporate interests, and that most new income in the country goes to the top 1% — who really benefits from from the deal? Where is all the promised new money and power ultimately going to end up?
When Obama works to ensure America's 'best interests,' it begs the question: who represents America on the global playing field, and exactly whose interests are being considered — The American people? Or the handful of individuals with private investment in the global market of exploitation…
When Obama works to ensure America's 'best interests,' it begs the question: who represents America on the global playing field, and exactly whose interests are being considered — The American people? Or the handful of individuals with private investment in the global market of exploitation…
10
Ofcourse it's the handful of individuals, but those individuals will also need to hire people at market price to optimize their exploitation.
1
Ms. Calmes has clearly written up her story based on a "scoop" text supplied by the White House.
Heavy on the details of protections for cuddly rhinoceri and elephants, short on the details of how the revolving door arbitration panels -- and boomerang mischief making through these panels by PhRMA seeking to bring UP the global level of prescription drug prices -- will work.
Wait for the details, of course. But be on the lookout for the ghost written provisions from the PhRMA lobby.
And the Big Entertainment -- aka Disney aka Mickey Mouse -- lobby.
The thought that these panels won't be ripe for regulatory capture is a fantasy.
The thing about tobacco companies being excluded from the arbitration process so suits originated in, say, the Ukraine can't be used as cover for Big Tobacco to continue unimpeded with its health wrecking ball in Australia?
That is an "historic" provision to be sure. But it could even more efficiently be covered in domestic legislation, or now, even regulation by the FDA.
Change the majority on SCOTUS to favor the common good rather than the corporate greed sustained by the Resentment Caucus of Scalia, Alito, and Thomas, and the FDA would home free to start really loosening the death grip that Big Tobacco has had, and continues to have, on global civilization.
Without the fear that Samuel Alito would provide Philip Morris with constitutional protection to continue its Long March in favor of cancer and COPD. Talk about elephants!
Heavy on the details of protections for cuddly rhinoceri and elephants, short on the details of how the revolving door arbitration panels -- and boomerang mischief making through these panels by PhRMA seeking to bring UP the global level of prescription drug prices -- will work.
Wait for the details, of course. But be on the lookout for the ghost written provisions from the PhRMA lobby.
And the Big Entertainment -- aka Disney aka Mickey Mouse -- lobby.
The thought that these panels won't be ripe for regulatory capture is a fantasy.
The thing about tobacco companies being excluded from the arbitration process so suits originated in, say, the Ukraine can't be used as cover for Big Tobacco to continue unimpeded with its health wrecking ball in Australia?
That is an "historic" provision to be sure. But it could even more efficiently be covered in domestic legislation, or now, even regulation by the FDA.
Change the majority on SCOTUS to favor the common good rather than the corporate greed sustained by the Resentment Caucus of Scalia, Alito, and Thomas, and the FDA would home free to start really loosening the death grip that Big Tobacco has had, and continues to have, on global civilization.
Without the fear that Samuel Alito would provide Philip Morris with constitutional protection to continue its Long March in favor of cancer and COPD. Talk about elephants!
15
Congress: Vote this deal down! The American people do not support the TPP.
147
But before you vote it down, maybe you ought to read it.
3
But President Obama supports the TPP, and the American people elected Obama twice.
1
I articulated, in another comment on this thread, one of the basic arguments in support of TPP. However, I recognize that American trade policy has not done much to improve the economic lot of some Americans and, in fact, may have hurt them. That's particularly true of lower-skill workers and it may yet be true for consumers, at least if the TPP does reduce consumer protections.
That said, I see very little likelihood that Congress will vote to reject this trade agreement. You are correct that we would all be better served both by an agreement that sets tougher consumer, labor, and environmental standards than this one, or its predecessors, do and that our elected representatives should consider the imperative of those protections before deciding whether to support TPP. But the Republican members of Congress, who are in the majority, really care only about what corporations, who now own our democracy, and right-wing activist groups, who can undercut their reelection campaigns, want. The money from the corporations and their lobbyists is more important to them and they are not going to upset those who write the checks by saying "no" to this, or any other, trade deal.
That said, I see very little likelihood that Congress will vote to reject this trade agreement. You are correct that we would all be better served both by an agreement that sets tougher consumer, labor, and environmental standards than this one, or its predecessors, do and that our elected representatives should consider the imperative of those protections before deciding whether to support TPP. But the Republican members of Congress, who are in the majority, really care only about what corporations, who now own our democracy, and right-wing activist groups, who can undercut their reelection campaigns, want. The money from the corporations and their lobbyists is more important to them and they are not going to upset those who write the checks by saying "no" to this, or any other, trade deal.
From commentary by Joseph Stiglitz, posted yesterday:
"Imagine what would have happened if these provisions had been in place when the lethal effects of asbestos were discovered. Rather than shutting down manufacturers and forcing them to compensate those who had been harmed, under ISDS, governments would have had to pay the manufacturers not to kill their citizens. Taxpayers would have been hit twice – first to pay for the health damage caused by asbestos, and then to compensate manufacturers for their lost profits when the government stepped in to regulate a dangerous product.
It should surprise no one that America’s international agreements produce managed rather than free trade. That is what happens when the policymaking process is closed to non-business stakeholders – not to mention the people’s elected representatives in Congress."
"Imagine what would have happened if these provisions had been in place when the lethal effects of asbestos were discovered. Rather than shutting down manufacturers and forcing them to compensate those who had been harmed, under ISDS, governments would have had to pay the manufacturers not to kill their citizens. Taxpayers would have been hit twice – first to pay for the health damage caused by asbestos, and then to compensate manufacturers for their lost profits when the government stepped in to regulate a dangerous product.
It should surprise no one that America’s international agreements produce managed rather than free trade. That is what happens when the policymaking process is closed to non-business stakeholders – not to mention the people’s elected representatives in Congress."
312
Instead of first making snap assumptions about "me, me, me!", I will do my best to be open-minded. After all, this is a very complex agreement which admittedly, I don't fully understand. Call me naive, but maybe it will turn out to be more positively progressive, including how it affects Americans overall. We cannot stick our heads in the sand forever.
1
I saw the Broadway play "Amazing Grace" yesterday at the Nederlander Theatre in New York yesterday. The play, which is about the Atlantic slave trade from the 16th to the 19th centuries, reminds me of our unfettered outsourcing and offshoring. Old wine, new bottle.
2
Obama's legacy of disgusting corruption and servitude to Wall Street and corporate interests, while disregarding American workers and the 99%, is complete. Hillary supports this outrage for the same corrupt reasons. It's time for Bernie Sanders, now.
11
Let the debate begin on both sides: "This is a good agreement, so vote Republican"; and, "This is a bad agreement, so vote Republican".
2
You can go Sanders or Trump. Another thing where they both agree.
"While many opponents object that the trade pact will kill jobs or send them overseas, the administration contends that the United States has more to gain from freer trade".
We've been hearing this for decades as the US loses more and more jobs. Absolutely great for the 1%, horrible for workers who will increasingly be non-unionized immigrants. Yep, 3rd World come on down!
We've been hearing this for decades as the US loses more and more jobs. Absolutely great for the 1%, horrible for workers who will increasingly be non-unionized immigrants. Yep, 3rd World come on down!
6
Since the process of negotiating this agreement has only engaged multinational corporations, and been kept secret from the American people, it is difficult to know if the labor and environmental provisions are real or just sugar coatings. The State Dispute Settlement procedure is not going to be cleansed by requiring an opaque vetting process to avoid conflict of interest fro those who decide the outcome of challenges. Imagine if the far more significant climate treaty had been negotiated in total secrecy and only environmental advocates were permitted to have input. That might actually lead to a more robust plan for preventing the climate train wreck that is unfolding, but would still have been flawed without full transparency and public input.
4
Just remember this: Bernie Sanders has opposed this from the beginning and Hillary Clinton pushed for it up until it became a personal problem for her.
90
Globalization sounds good in theory, but has fallen "abysmally" far short in actual implementation. To claim such an trade agreement as NAFTA a tremendous success is pure "hogwash". In fact, the disemboweling of America's middle class and the exporting of millions of high paying jobs to foreign "lowballers" is the real legacy of NAFTA. The Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Agreement has all the makings of a "wolf in sheep's clothing" with the American worker once again "gang raped" by the ravages of catabolic capitalism and the "greed" of the global oligarchy.
458
It's currently in vogue to make grand proclimations without facts and you have mastered the genre. The 21st century is here and we need to solidify our trading partners to insure the growth of our economy.We have left Africa to China and are sucked into the mid east with little chance for growth. This is a grand plan .
Are you quoting someone? Mark Twain, perhaps?
I couldn't agree with you more...
It amazes me as to how disconnected the American public, myself included, are from such huge legislation being debated, and as it now seems, enforced. If you talk to people on the street, barely anyone knows about what the TPP deal is or how it affects them. Says a lot about us as a nation.
11
What a sad and ominous way to begin the week: First, we hear nary a word of apology from the United States government, no in-depth report from the NYT or any reputable medium concerning the American bombing of a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz. And second, we learn of a misguided, domestically harmful trade pact. How utterly discouraging.
60
Once again, the Times, a perennial booster of TPP and other "free trade" deals, misrepresents the content of the deal (to the extent the contents are even knowable at this point, beyond wikileaks releases) and gives a wholly inadequate and dismissive account of what critics actually say about its provisions.
As just about everyone outside the .1% and their advertising agencies and lobbyists admits, tariffs are already low or nill between the signatories of this deal. The TPP is largely regulatory in nature -- this and other "free trade" deals are investors' rights agreements. Since the deals are written by multi-national corporations for their own benefit, pernicious outcomes for workers, consumers and democratic process are hardly surprising. No conspiracy theories are needed here. Businesses seek to maximize profits. When they write the rules, they write them in their own favor, not the public interest.
The Times has yet to offer an actual account of how these deals are created, why the U.S. government fights strenuously to protect (for example) corporate drug profits at the expense of its own budget and public health worldwide and what the actual objections to these treaties are.
Will the day ever come?
As just about everyone outside the .1% and their advertising agencies and lobbyists admits, tariffs are already low or nill between the signatories of this deal. The TPP is largely regulatory in nature -- this and other "free trade" deals are investors' rights agreements. Since the deals are written by multi-national corporations for their own benefit, pernicious outcomes for workers, consumers and democratic process are hardly surprising. No conspiracy theories are needed here. Businesses seek to maximize profits. When they write the rules, they write them in their own favor, not the public interest.
The Times has yet to offer an actual account of how these deals are created, why the U.S. government fights strenuously to protect (for example) corporate drug profits at the expense of its own budget and public health worldwide and what the actual objections to these treaties are.
Will the day ever come?
282
The deal would:
1. Expand protections for the foreign property of big global corporations.
2. Extend intellectual-property protections for big global pharmaceutical companies, although not as many extra years as Big Pharma had in the first draft.
3. Create special tribunals that can force countries to pay global corporations damages for lost profits due to health, safety, environmental regulations. A code of conduct would govern lawyers selected for these panels but they’ll still be looking over their shoulders at the big corporations who they rely on for business. Thankfully, tobacco companies would be excluded.
4. By encouraging foreign direct investment in all these ways,the deal will make it even easier for big American companies to outsource work abroad. (The administration says the U.S. will gain export jobs but that’s unlikely as long as American wages and the U.S. dollar remain so much higher than the wages and currencies of so many southeast Asian nations.)
5. True, the worker standards in the TPP commit all parties to the International Labor Organization’s standards but almost all these nations are already committed to those standards. Problem is, they haven’t been enforced, and the TPP has no enforcement power beyond what’s already available in the International Labor Organization.
1. Expand protections for the foreign property of big global corporations.
2. Extend intellectual-property protections for big global pharmaceutical companies, although not as many extra years as Big Pharma had in the first draft.
3. Create special tribunals that can force countries to pay global corporations damages for lost profits due to health, safety, environmental regulations. A code of conduct would govern lawyers selected for these panels but they’ll still be looking over their shoulders at the big corporations who they rely on for business. Thankfully, tobacco companies would be excluded.
4. By encouraging foreign direct investment in all these ways,the deal will make it even easier for big American companies to outsource work abroad. (The administration says the U.S. will gain export jobs but that’s unlikely as long as American wages and the U.S. dollar remain so much higher than the wages and currencies of so many southeast Asian nations.)
5. True, the worker standards in the TPP commit all parties to the International Labor Organization’s standards but almost all these nations are already committed to those standards. Problem is, they haven’t been enforced, and the TPP has no enforcement power beyond what’s already available in the International Labor Organization.
"Michael B. Froman, the United States trade representative, called the labor and environmental rules the strongest ever in a trade agreement and a model for future pacts,..."
Justice Scalia has pointed out that the problem with the consitution of the Soviet Union that once was, wasn't that it didn't provide rights and freedoms. It promised those in spades. The problem was that the promise of rights and freedoms was never enforced. Unless US unions have the right by this pact to sue participating governments for violations, like corporations do, the cited provisions hold little promise.
Justice Scalia has pointed out that the problem with the consitution of the Soviet Union that once was, wasn't that it didn't provide rights and freedoms. It promised those in spades. The problem was that the promise of rights and freedoms was never enforced. Unless US unions have the right by this pact to sue participating governments for violations, like corporations do, the cited provisions hold little promise.
4
The peace and prosperity of the world--and therefore of the US--depend on deals such as this which attempt to ensure the fair treatment of workers--and the protection of the environment--on a global scale. Our economy and our workers are smart and savvy enough to find ample jobs and opportunity, and the markets for our products will be enhanced by the lowering of tariffs against our exports. While there will be some adjustment pains, the future will be better for all of us if this accord is ratified.
1
This is a good deal for the American economy, the environment and international cooperation. I don't understand all the haters. I guess it's true that everyone likes progress but no one likes change. Don't be confused: this is progress. Since when did we become so scared of the world?
2
How nice. Perhaps now we can find out what's actually in the overly secret "TPP." Nothing good is negotiated in the insane secrecy witnessed during the "TPP" negotiations. I remain highly skeptical. The "TPP" sounds like a gift from and to the corporations.
6
Congratulations to our President, Barack Obama - the TPP deal is good for Americans and another laurel and kudo for his legacy. Pivoting toward Asia makes more foreign policy sense than continuing to be stirring slowly in the quagmire of the Middle East. Condemnation among Republicans against TPP and Obama may bollux the agreement in the Congress, which is known for throwing monkey wrenches in the works of every one of Obama's initiatives . The Republicans are hoping to undo all of President Obama's achievements in his two terms - on DAY ONE of their 2017 Administration - revoking Affordable Care Act, trash-canning womens' rights issues (Planned Parenthood, etc), Roe v Wade, doing away with same-sex marriage rights, catching and killing Osama bin Laden,and so forth. Back to the Middle Ages if any Republican is elected to the Presidency next year. Chances for a Republican Conservative victory after two losses to Barack Obama - slim to none.
1
All hail our corporate overlords! We hope you find the sacrifice of our humble livelihoods to be to your liking.
13
It is amazing that so many posters have a negative knee-jerk reaction to this (and other) trade deals. Economics 101 teaches the law of comparative advantage and that the current trade regimes in place disadvantage American workers; in case you haven't noticed we have already been losing jobs overseas to countries which have poor worker safety and lax pollution laws. Saying this is a "bad deal" for our economy and American workers flies in the face of reality.
6
Because it's a lot easier to scream, yell, accuse, feel better about yourself by saying horrible and disgusting things about presidents, members of Congress, movie stars, critics. it's just a chance to get a pot shot in. and say, "See, I was right," The first reaction to ANYTHING in the comments section of this paper is almost always negative. No moderation, no thoughtfulness, no thinking about the people involved as actual human beings.
Riccardo's Comparative advantage assumed a free trading nation's unemployed labor would quickly find new jobs and a nation's capital would not move outside the country.
Both assumptions are not true in the USA as factories are free to move overseas and workers have a difficult time finding new jobs.
These trade agreements exploit labor arbitrage, pushing all labor toward the same level as labor consumers seek the lowest risk adjusted cost of labor.
If one expects foreign countries to improve worker safety and pollution, what will be the enforcement mechanism of the TPP?
Improving overseas worker safety and pollution will likely be viewed as raising the cost of overseas labor and will not be a priority for US companies manufacturing overseas or for the US government.
If one quotes Econ 101, perhaps one will be interest in what Econ Nobel Joseph Stiglitz wrote recently about the TPP.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trans-pacific-partnership-ch...
Are you suggesting Stiglitz may need to repeat Econ 101 so he will not see this as a bad deal?
Both assumptions are not true in the USA as factories are free to move overseas and workers have a difficult time finding new jobs.
These trade agreements exploit labor arbitrage, pushing all labor toward the same level as labor consumers seek the lowest risk adjusted cost of labor.
If one expects foreign countries to improve worker safety and pollution, what will be the enforcement mechanism of the TPP?
Improving overseas worker safety and pollution will likely be viewed as raising the cost of overseas labor and will not be a priority for US companies manufacturing overseas or for the US government.
If one quotes Econ 101, perhaps one will be interest in what Econ Nobel Joseph Stiglitz wrote recently about the TPP.
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/trans-pacific-partnership-ch...
Are you suggesting Stiglitz may need to repeat Econ 101 so he will not see this as a bad deal?
A deal where the details aren't well known to Americans is sketchy at best. How many in Congress are actually going to read the entire agreement? Can the NYT print the deal in its entirety? This appears to be another free ride for corporations at the expense of the middle class Americans.
12
Devastating. President Obama shows who he is at core: enabler of corporate dictatorship.
13
Wake up fellow Americans, you are being sold into slavery and when you complain that you work only to survive, you will be told you haven't worked hard enough. Left or Right, they are in the pockets of Corporate America whose aim is to destroy unions and create a pliable underclass who is happy to have money to eat, buy the gadgets they condition us to believe we need. If it's sounds conspiratorial, it isn't. It's wide open. Most people simply refuse to see it. President Reagan started it by turning us into a a debtor nation, Clinton sold us away to Globalism and Obama finished us off with this latest deal, covertly devised and signed. Congress will gleefully pass it and falsely pedal it as a symbol of their bipartisanship. Job killer. I say refuse to buy anything not made in the USA. We get the short end of all trade deals because we started with the best standard of living and highest wages. Enough. Can one believe China still has "developing nation" status? What greater proof does one need to see what's happening.
20
Why is the cost of American beef (Steaks) in Japan is cost prohibitive ($75/per) ? Why is an American Cadillac costs as much as a Ferrari does in foreign countries ? Import taxes !!!
Who are the incompetent negotiators in the Obama's administration ?
They can't be that STUPID ? Unless Obama has a different agenda.
Who are the incompetent negotiators in the Obama's administration ?
They can't be that STUPID ? Unless Obama has a different agenda.
4
If both Donald and Bernie are against this, might this not be a deal that has some merit...where it's not winner take all? WE've got this mindset in the US that if you win I lose ........and if I win You lose..........Nonsense!
This is a start on getting Asian nations on board to work together.
Give trade a chance!
EdB
Virginia
This is a start on getting Asian nations on board to work together.
Give trade a chance!
EdB
Virginia
5
It's amazing to me, that - exporting trade liberalization and globalization, abroad - Americans are still quite protectionist and anti-Free Trade.
The basic premise of the pact is to get rid of tariffs that promote domestic products at the expense of imported ones. Just ask Trump; he's already come out and admitted that what has prompted so much investment in China isn't cheap labor, but their ransom of applying harsh tariffs on imported products but not those "made in China."
If you admit that the above is an issue, the only way to address that is to actually change the rules of the game, and this is the first step in that direction.
...but I'm certain we won't be alarmist and irrational. Oh, no...
The basic premise of the pact is to get rid of tariffs that promote domestic products at the expense of imported ones. Just ask Trump; he's already come out and admitted that what has prompted so much investment in China isn't cheap labor, but their ransom of applying harsh tariffs on imported products but not those "made in China."
If you admit that the above is an issue, the only way to address that is to actually change the rules of the game, and this is the first step in that direction.
...but I'm certain we won't be alarmist and irrational. Oh, no...
3
I wonder if this new agreement addresses USA protectionist "buy america" provisions that appear to subvert both the spirit of and the law of NAFTA?
1
No one seems to remember the Smoot-Hawley Tariff of 1930 which erected barriers to most foreign imports. It created a backlash of retaliatory tariffs against American exports, exacerbating the depression, destroying American export dependent businesses and related firms dependent on them, producing an unemployment rate of around 22%. It took war production contracts to pull us out of that one, and as most of Europe and Asia's industrial base had been destroyed, our exports dominated the world economy into the late 1960's.
Accept the fact that the world has changed and we now face competition from both Europe and Asia; we cannot afford to repeat the stupidity of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff ever again!
Accept the fact that the world has changed and we now face competition from both Europe and Asia; we cannot afford to repeat the stupidity of the Smoot-Hawley Tariff ever again!
"Long before an accord was reached, it was being condemned by [...] Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont."
One more reason why Bernie Sanders, who understands the plight of the middle class, should be the next President of the United States.
One more reason why Bernie Sanders, who understands the plight of the middle class, should be the next President of the United States.
78
Indeed. Sanders was always against the TPP.
Everyone who signed this is an enemy of every working class person on this planet.
28
Why is it so hard for the New York Times to do its job and point out the serious flaws of this piece of legislation. This article reads like a sales brochure for the US Governnent.
566
The NY Times editorial board lives in the same affluent bubble as the plutocrats driving this agreement, insulated from the consequences of this agreement. They also don't want to alienate these very same plutocrats who advertise in their publication and control access to news sources.
28
Zactly. It probably is one ..
2
Because it is.
1
In my experience trade accord with Asia means that we export soybeans and they make everything else from the clothes on our bodies, to all the household goods on store shelves, to the medicine used to fill our prescriptions, to our computer, phones and auto parts. We get to make war weapons for use in fighting their wars.
66
Don't kill the cash cow, milk it! Lots of opposing arguments about job loss, environment and labor standards will come up now. However, the truth is globalization creates tremendous wealth. It is not the wealth creation that is the problem, it is the unfair distribution of wealth. Let them make all the money in the world they want but tax them well to give full socio-economic protection to the needy. Make higher education free for all with extra revenue.
3
I suspect this deal represents something Americans have grown unused to--compromise--and therefore, many may oppose it on a single ground.
But this trading of a win on one thing for giving some on another is the way the world usually works, and I hope that our "single issue" voter mentality won't prevent us from agreeing to a deal that looks to have many fine aspects. Those would include the environmental protection, worker rights in third world countries, the opening of markets to US dairy products, help for small businesses in negotiating international trade, and opening Japan's auto market.
I hope the agreement gets a fair hearing and isn't derailed by Obama Derangement Syndrome.
But this trading of a win on one thing for giving some on another is the way the world usually works, and I hope that our "single issue" voter mentality won't prevent us from agreeing to a deal that looks to have many fine aspects. Those would include the environmental protection, worker rights in third world countries, the opening of markets to US dairy products, help for small businesses in negotiating international trade, and opening Japan's auto market.
I hope the agreement gets a fair hearing and isn't derailed by Obama Derangement Syndrome.
2
Oh good. A bigger slave labor pool, while incorporation in Ireland remains robust. This administration never ever made any attempt at comprehensive tax overhaul.
57
It's about 5:45 here in LA; I first got this devasting news while still lying in bed listening to tne headlines on Democracy Now. It's scary tp wale u[ these days - you never know what horror you will face. Besides this there is more proof that the US deliberately bombed the MSF hosiptal in Kiuduz. Yes - the .1% have gotten their way for now. But it's not over. Let the demonstrations, e-mails, faxes, letters. phone calls and constituent visits begin. Thi is OUR country and we want it back from the billionaires and their toadies in Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court. Let's elect Bernie Sanders and enough other officials to allow him to govern according to the wishes of the 99.9% whose country this really is.
203
I like Bernie, but he is a stalking horse for the eventual Dem nominee, as there is no way they will nominate him, even if he wins ALL the primaries. I would have voted for him only if he ran as an Independent (and I lived in VT and voted for him many times). He has already said that he will support the eventual Dem nominee if it is not him. So face reality--vote third party only or suffer the consequences of a corporate Dem (like Obama) in office again.
Good to see at least the commentators, against the tilt of the presentation by the NYT, recognize this "deal" for what it is: an initiative bought by transnational corporations at the expense of, well, everything - the environment, workers, small business, local economies, political sovereignty, Democracy, freedom.
Take your pick. There is stuff in here for almost anyone to hate. As citizens of a Democratic country, we must take as stand.
Take your pick. There is stuff in here for almost anyone to hate. As citizens of a Democratic country, we must take as stand.
419
It's my understanding that no one has seen the details of the deal yet. Is that not correct?
Also, if it ends up being as bad as the rumors make it out to be, opponents will likely need to mobilize very quickly.
Also, if it ends up being as bad as the rumors make it out to be, opponents will likely need to mobilize very quickly.
My stand is voting for Sanders.
Reading the story on Valeant and others driving drug prices to extortionate levels, I'm left to wonder which way TPP will cut -- will it bring price controls and low -cost manufacturing that the rest of the world enjoys to the US, or will it inflict our brand of unrestrained predatory capitalism on everyone else? I guess we'll have to wait a month for the full text to get back from the printer or whatever lame reason it's being withheld. But with grandees like Orin Hatch slugging away for Big Pharma, or just Big Bucks generally, I'm not too optimistic.
6
As usual Neoliberalism prevails. Between the two parties in America, we have one that advances a Neoliberal far-right "Market" driven agenda with somewhat socially liberal domestic policies and then we have the Republicans. What wonderful choices we have as a Democratic Republic!
10
Please consider voting for Bernie Sanders.
The selling out of the American 99%er continues.
121
yo. 99% being sold out by the 0.01%?
uuuhhmm,
did i hear
"Money IS power"?
and in this case, they declared there was not even a sham need to pretend to air all the terms of the TPP connivance.
well? did they?
how much do you know, about what NYTimes is nearly calling a done deal?
it's a bit scarey.
uuuhhmm,
did i hear
"Money IS power"?
and in this case, they declared there was not even a sham need to pretend to air all the terms of the TPP connivance.
well? did they?
how much do you know, about what NYTimes is nearly calling a done deal?
it's a bit scarey.
Clinton pushed through NAFTA and shredded the social safety net, and I fled the Democratic Party. Now Obama has gifted us the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and Thomas Wolfe's observation rings in my ears: "You Can't Go Home Again." I get why Bernie Sander has to run as a Democrat, given that third-party candidates do not stand much of a chance in the American system, but I wish that it did not have to be so. What a sellout organization.
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I haven't felt represented by the Democrats for decades. I'm voting for Sanders if I have to write him in.
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Stop the sovereignty destroying Trade 'Agreements'
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Regardless of the deal, seems to have a snow balls chance if it has to pass our Congress as well as 11 other governments.
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If both Bernie, and Donald, agree on something, it probably is true.
To give big pharma anything after the recent price gouging shows who owns who.
To give big pharma anything after the recent price gouging shows who owns who.
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Just turn over everything to the corporations, they decide, the government and its citizens kneel. Corporate utopia.
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If Congress ratifies this monstrosity, we might as well kiss the last vestiges of democracy and local self-determination goodbye! Don't like fracking? Too bad! Corporations will make the rules! Think drug prices should be regulated? That's so 20th century! Get a job!
Welcome to the Brave New World of corporate feudalism! Thanks, Obama! Your legacy as a faithful servant of the One Percent is secure!
Welcome to the Brave New World of corporate feudalism! Thanks, Obama! Your legacy as a faithful servant of the One Percent is secure!
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Unfortunately I think we kissed the last vestiges of democracy goodbye some time ago. If we had not, this monstrosity could have been stopped long before now. This is just the last nail in democracy's coffin.
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Drug prices are heavily regulated outside the US and nothing in this agreement changes that. The US is the odd man. This agreement, if anything, makes it easier for the US to regulate drug prices - but it likely won't and nothing in this agreement forces it to do so.
Wow. The freedom of free markets is quite complex.
Much simpler to just do business with China, the market elephant not in the room.
Much simpler to just do business with China, the market elephant not in the room.
Well done. This is wonderful. Congratulations on taking this far. Keep it moving.
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How about a mention on how these "trade" deals slant towards global corporations, allowing them to sue governments in the countries in which they operate? US-based reports always hype the level playing field for US firms in the TPP; but they also permit those same companies to run roughshod over local laws.
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We all know how well NAFTA turned out for the 99%.
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I recall a protest sign from that time: After NAFTA the SHAFTA.
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Lowering trade barriers means lower prices for everyone. Some people may get hurt, but overall this will be good. The removal of non-tariff barriers to U.S. exports to Japan is a major achievement. Congratulations to President Obama and the neogotiators.
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If you think this agreement is just about tariffs, you haven't been reading about the few leaks we have seen about the box of chocolates this is for corporations and the monied elite. It's not good for humans.
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Great. We get to sell (what?) to the six remaining elderly people in Japan and in exchange we give up our remaining jobs, copyright, environmental protections, safe food, affordable medicine, and what else hidden in the text?
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Lowering these trade barriers will destroy wages and salaries in the US.
You sound pretty disconnected from...a lot of stuff.
You sound pretty disconnected from...a lot of stuff.
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Buried amidst this story is the effect that it will have on copyright and intellectual property. This is a secret deal that will stifle innovation, particularly in the areas of generic pharmaceutical availability, placing greater liability on internet providers, expand copyright protection to an excessive length of time, restrict fair use and criminalize activities that have non-criminal intent or effect. I'm sure some of the agreement is good, just as I'm sure that others will pick it apart and identify other areas where it benefits only the wealthy and powerful, but I'm also sure that very few people are aware of the long term negative effect this is going to have on creativity and scholarly research.
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Scott, I see the exact opposite on generic pharma availability. Bringing 12 years of data exclusivity down to the same 5-8 years (the current standard for conventional generics) helps generics, not brand name pharma. What am I missing?
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It was nice knowing all of you. This is the beginning of the end. The TPP didn't cause the flattening of the world, the advance of automation, the single worldwide labor market, the downward spiral of jobs and wages, the tragedy of the common environment, global climate change, wars over fixed resources, and overpopulation, but it is certainly a big step in the wrong direction on top of these other issues.
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I think this is an impressive achievement especially in that it leaves the elephant, China, out. Many of these countries have high standards of living and Japan and Singapore have higher life expectancy than the US.
I understand why the Democrats were wary but it might turn out to be a better deal than NAFTA.
I understand why the Democrats were wary but it might turn out to be a better deal than NAFTA.
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better than nafta is not saying very much!
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What about Malaysia that has forced labor; actual slave laws?
It was reported a few months ago that President Obama was put in an awkward position to DEFEND slavery. Just google it: "Obama slavery Malaysia" It's all there.
It was reported a few months ago that President Obama was put in an awkward position to DEFEND slavery. Just google it: "Obama slavery Malaysia" It's all there.
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The most populous of these countries - Indonesia and the Phillippines - have much lower standards of living and life expectancy than the US.
4
*Now* do we get to read this deal? How about our congressmen and senators, to they get to read it and make public comments about it?
The secrecy around the actual contents really really bothers me. What Wikileaks has given us citizens to work with does not look like this is a deal that is in the interests of the vast majority of people of the United States (or of anywhere else, for that matter), and the fact that citizens have had to rely on guesswork about the proposed law of the land actually will be if enacted is very disturbing.
The secrecy around the actual contents really really bothers me. What Wikileaks has given us citizens to work with does not look like this is a deal that is in the interests of the vast majority of people of the United States (or of anywhere else, for that matter), and the fact that citizens have had to rely on guesswork about the proposed law of the land actually will be if enacted is very disturbing.
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No it's on a need to know basis and the American people don't need to know. Why should they know....they have no rights left.
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I'm not sure if it's a good deal, but your information seems to be incorrect. Congress, including opponents like Elizabeth Warren, have had full access to review the negotiating texts since March. Per USTR: they provided "access to the full TPP negotiating texts for any Member of Congress, including for Members to view at their convenience in the Capitol, accompanied by staff members with appropriate security clearance." http://1.usa.gov/1MZGYkO
And, the public will get to read the entire text at least 60 days before the President can sign the deal, not to mention the additional days before the bill can even be introduced to Congress for ratification. But I don't think that clock starts just yet, per this chart: http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Lincicome2.jpg
And, the public will get to read the entire text at least 60 days before the President can sign the deal, not to mention the additional days before the bill can even be introduced to Congress for ratification. But I don't think that clock starts just yet, per this chart: http://thefederalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Lincicome2.jpg
Once it's final. Notice that the agreement was on the last remaining issues, not on the final draft.
*Then* the public availability and comment period can begin -- months before it is either signed or ratified, so everybody whining about secrecy can just hold on a little more.
*Then* the public availability and comment period can begin -- months before it is either signed or ratified, so everybody whining about secrecy can just hold on a little more.
1
Get ready for the gradual elimination of country-of-origin labels, testing of imported foodstuffs for toxics and contamination, and other factors putting American consumers at risk. And until we see the true provisions of the Investor-State Dispute Settlement process we should anticipate they tilt against the public interest to support trashing of protective regulations. After years of consistently ignoring or undermine the public interest it would be a surprise for the Obama Administration to change direction now.
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There already is no testing of imported RX medication from India and China, either for purity or conformance to label dosage strength. Most of our generic RX medication now is of that ilk, despite the US sounding names of the companies who distribute them within the US.
2
Have you actually read the agreement???
1
As I hope you know, part of the problem with the TPP is that its terms have been kept secret. Some of it is available on Wikileaks and it looks very much like the criticisms here, overall.
6
Welcome to the third world, United States. Rampant job discrimination will now follow, because being an American, and not Asian, will prevent you from being hired. And those now very expensive drugs, will now get much more expensive, as the drug companies re-incorporate to Asia and stick to Americans.
From the man who gave us killer drones, health industry centric, mandatory, health insurance, inept Middle East policy; he now brings you his new legacy, open trade to the lowest bidder. Great fro the 1%; terrible for the rest of America. With just over 16 months left, of the Obama Administration, just how much more he will do to "poison the well"?
From the man who gave us killer drones, health industry centric, mandatory, health insurance, inept Middle East policy; he now brings you his new legacy, open trade to the lowest bidder. Great fro the 1%; terrible for the rest of America. With just over 16 months left, of the Obama Administration, just how much more he will do to "poison the well"?
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It's almost as if you didn't even read the above summary...or else, you rely on other biased voices to explain to you what is in the pact.
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Mr. Metrowsky: Have you read the agreement? I intend to before jumping on any soapbox. Just for the record, Obamacare has helped me and my family immeasurably. Before Obamacare, a colleague of mine had to pay $120,00 out of pocket (he re-mortgaged his house) so that his daughter could have open heart surgery. My mother almost went bankrupt paying the bills for my father's 10 year battle with cancer. And then there's that hedge fund person who thinks the health care industry should be run like a hedge fund. So don't lecture me about mandatory health care or the 1%. I suppose Mr. Romney represented the 99%, is that right? How about gun control? Let's start with that argument. I think you could label what's going on with gunning down hundreds of people for the freedom to strap on a semi-automatic weapon "poisonong the well." I always appreciate civilized discussion, and I try to make my comments thoughtful and objective, but I'm getting sick and tired of people wedging their extreme and noxious opinions about the bogey man of the government, or anyone for that matter, when you have nothing to stand on. No statistics, no real-life facts, just this grand and sweeping nastiness that scoops up everyone and everything in your path who has a different opinion from yours. Speak critically - that's fine - but why can't you speak specifically and argue points instead of committing character assassination? The nastiness of the people in this country has become an illness in itself.
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Can you imagine what President Romney would have done instead? Or President Jeb?
2
Most likely a very raw deal for American workers.
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How many million jobs will be lost ?? can we ever compete with dollar a day workers from emerging economies ??
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Pity the poor American worker.
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Good criticisms of the trade agreements are presented in a short article, the 2nd article in a political newsletter, http://aeu.org/wp-content/uploads/EAR2014121.pdf.
An example of a destructive impedance match is when you try to fill a cup from a fire hydrant. Water sprays everywhere and at most you get the cup half full if you can even hang on to it.
To adequately evaluate the trade agreements, see the criticisms of them at
http://www.citizen.org/tradewatch.
An example of a destructive impedance match is when you try to fill a cup from a fire hydrant. Water sprays everywhere and at most you get the cup half full if you can even hang on to it.
To adequately evaluate the trade agreements, see the criticisms of them at
http://www.citizen.org/tradewatch.
The American People do not want this deal. It is being forced upon us, and we should protest.
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We'll have plenty of time to protest when it is too late.
9
NAFTA has sent our manufacturing jobs over seas, driven our economy to the brink of bankruptcy and lowered the standard of living for the majority of Americans while allowing trade partners to block our products sales in their countries with unfair tariffs leaving us on a downward spiral to feudal system which was the intent of free trade agreements around the world
10
A little late on the protest concept, that was a couple of months ago....
1
Congratulations to the global 0.1%. As for the rest of us? Good luck, and hold on to your wallets, if not your jobs.
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David S:
Can you provide us with some facts of this treaty that support your point? I would be interested to know. Why are American jobs in danger? I thought we were already outsourcing a good percentage of jobs. Isn't there something in the treaty that addresses that situation? My very rudimentary understanding of some of the specifics is that it will balance the power that China now has in the global economic market and make us more competitive with their cheap products. How does this specifically benefit the 1%? Have you read the terms of the treaty? I thought it wasn't released to the public yet. If you have read it, can you direct me to a website where it's published? Thank you.
Can you provide us with some facts of this treaty that support your point? I would be interested to know. Why are American jobs in danger? I thought we were already outsourcing a good percentage of jobs. Isn't there something in the treaty that addresses that situation? My very rudimentary understanding of some of the specifics is that it will balance the power that China now has in the global economic market and make us more competitive with their cheap products. How does this specifically benefit the 1%? Have you read the terms of the treaty? I thought it wasn't released to the public yet. If you have read it, can you direct me to a website where it's published? Thank you.
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I am glad I am nearing the end of my working life, I feel for those who are just starting out life and/or their careers. The Us is going to become a more bleak place to live. A place like Panem (see Hunger Games).
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artistcon3, the Obama administration has actually tried to promote this agreement with the argument that it will permit a middle class to rise on other nations. This is a "cheap labor" agreement.
5