Boycott these companies.
20
Shame on business owners of America, you are selling the good old U.S.A off one piece at a time. I do hope you realize that when no one is working in America because of things like this your business will go out of business because their will be no money to spend in your stores. But I hope the American people take this one step further and help that along by boycotting your stores to let you know we will not take this any longer. I know I will no longer buy in store or on line any longer, I do hope others will do the same. So sorry but this is our right, so I hope you enjoy going some other place because we the good people of America do not need you here in our country any longer.
27
Let us place the blame where it belongs. This law was created by the congress and the senate. It is legal for American companies to replace American workers with H-1b visa holders. We need to vote with our votes. Find out if your congressmen and senators support the h-1b. If they do, vote them out. Simple. Find out the position of the candidates running for president. If they support the h-1b visa, eliminate their position. Simple. Don't blame the companies or the h-1b visa holders. They are following the law to their benefit and you would do too if you were in their situation. The politicians who are beholden to these companies are to blame.
11
It's a hard and cruel (capitalist) world out there. More power to you if you can get into the CEO's cabal and deal yourself a great hand: otherwise, roll with the punches and try to survive physically, mentally and emotionally.
Kathleen Waugh, spokesperson for Toys R Us, claims
that shipping American's jobs to India “resulted in significant cost savings"? Toys R Us are off my shopping list! There are other places to shop besides this retailer. Time to start polishing your resume, Kathleen!
that shipping American's jobs to India “resulted in significant cost savings"? Toys R Us are off my shopping list! There are other places to shop besides this retailer. Time to start polishing your resume, Kathleen!
6
Just take a DEEP BREATH.......
And, then take an HONEST LOOK !
1. Who's doing this to whom ?
Americans are doing it Americans.....
American owners & employers are doing it to American employees !
2. Why are they doing it ?
Just take a look at their annual performance....
It is not because their making losses... They're all making huge profits !
So, they're doing such things, to make even greater profits.
American employees on minimum wage, are at 1960 levels...
American employers in the top 1% have grown over 250% in profit & wealth.
American employees in the middle class have remained stagnant.
American employers just don't want to share their success with employees.
Studies revealed that CEO pay is around 400 X that of low levels. Imagine !
3. Unlike the colonial times, it is not a foreign power that is doing it...
American employers are doing it to THIER OWN, Amercian employees !
Just for more profit... Even more ! Over time it is called unlimited GREED !
4. Is it fair to blame the immigrants?
Have a heart.... They're just making a humble living...
And, face layoff anytime... And, have to go back home !
For some EMPLOYERS, PROFITS matter more than AMERICAN employees.
5. AMERICANS ARE DOING IT TO AMERCIANS !
And, then take an HONEST LOOK !
1. Who's doing this to whom ?
Americans are doing it Americans.....
American owners & employers are doing it to American employees !
2. Why are they doing it ?
Just take a look at their annual performance....
It is not because their making losses... They're all making huge profits !
So, they're doing such things, to make even greater profits.
American employees on minimum wage, are at 1960 levels...
American employers in the top 1% have grown over 250% in profit & wealth.
American employees in the middle class have remained stagnant.
American employers just don't want to share their success with employees.
Studies revealed that CEO pay is around 400 X that of low levels. Imagine !
3. Unlike the colonial times, it is not a foreign power that is doing it...
American employers are doing it to THIER OWN, Amercian employees !
Just for more profit... Even more ! Over time it is called unlimited GREED !
4. Is it fair to blame the immigrants?
Have a heart.... They're just making a humble living...
And, face layoff anytime... And, have to go back home !
For some EMPLOYERS, PROFITS matter more than AMERICAN employees.
5. AMERICANS ARE DOING IT TO AMERCIANS !
9
As individuals, we long ago off-shored our clothing, our kid's toys and virtually all of our electronics. When we buy, the majority of us look for our own definition of value, which for all but the most precious items does not include attention to country of manufacture. Those companies that compete for our dollar will do what is necessary to earn it, while maintaining profit. Offshoring what they can is part of the equation.
It appears to be a rule of economics that we will attempt to pay as little as we can for something we buy, as well as what we make. And those goods and services that can be done less expensively abroad will be. When the cost of transportation is nothing, and English is a lingua franca, the friction is minimal. The H1B visa program makes knowledge transfer easier, but be assured that in its absence, any number of companies would find another way to do it, such as hiring consultants with US staff to record the tasks and port them over to India and elsewhere. Over time an equilibrium will take place with wages abroad rising and those domestically lowering, due to surplus talent in the US and increasing scarcity abroad. We must focus on those talents and skills that make us competitive, which collectively we resist.
Those who are indignant at these practices rarely walk the talk; they eagerly buy that which is made abroad and would gag at the cost of wearing all US made clothing and could not find US made electronics at any price.
It appears to be a rule of economics that we will attempt to pay as little as we can for something we buy, as well as what we make. And those goods and services that can be done less expensively abroad will be. When the cost of transportation is nothing, and English is a lingua franca, the friction is minimal. The H1B visa program makes knowledge transfer easier, but be assured that in its absence, any number of companies would find another way to do it, such as hiring consultants with US staff to record the tasks and port them over to India and elsewhere. Over time an equilibrium will take place with wages abroad rising and those domestically lowering, due to surplus talent in the US and increasing scarcity abroad. We must focus on those talents and skills that make us competitive, which collectively we resist.
Those who are indignant at these practices rarely walk the talk; they eagerly buy that which is made abroad and would gag at the cost of wearing all US made clothing and could not find US made electronics at any price.
5
The H-1B visa was never intended for jobs where there were shortages of American workers. That is the way is was sold to the public. However, it was carefully worded such that replacing American workers with cheaper aliens is completely legal by these procedures. There never was a shortage of Americans in STEM occupations either.
All of these guest worker programs need to end, and we need to withdraw from these unfavorable trade agreements we have entered into and hammer companies that outsource with tariffs that will destroy their profit margins.
All of these guest worker programs need to end, and we need to withdraw from these unfavorable trade agreements we have entered into and hammer companies that outsource with tariffs that will destroy their profit margins.
8
From Wiki (not the perfect source, but most often accurate to the tee.
"The current law limits to 65,000 the number of foreign nationals who may be issued a visa or otherwise provided H-1B status each fiscal year (FY). Laws exempt up to 20,000 foreign nationals holding a master's or higher degree from U.S. universities from the cap on H-1B visas. In addition, excluded from the ceiling are all H-1B non-immigrants who work at (but not necessarily for) universities, non-profit research facilities associated with universities, and government research facilities.[5] Universities can employ an unlimited number of foreign workers as cap-exempt. This also means that contractors working at but not directly employed by the institutions may be exempt from the cap as well. Free Trade Agreements carve out 1,400 H-1B1 visas for Chilean nationals and 5,400 H-1B1 visas for Singapore nationals. However, if these reserved visas are not used, then they are made available in the next fiscal year to applicants from other countries. Due to these unlimited exemptions and roll-overs, the number of H-1B visas issued each year is significantly more than the 65,000 cap, with 117,828 having been issued in FY2010, 129,552 in FY2011, and 135,991 in FY2012.[6][7]"
H-1B visa holders can bring immediate family members (spouse and children under 21)..as dependents..not eligible to work..a DHS ruling provides ..eligibility to work,..attend school, get a driver's license, and open a bank account in the U.S.
"The current law limits to 65,000 the number of foreign nationals who may be issued a visa or otherwise provided H-1B status each fiscal year (FY). Laws exempt up to 20,000 foreign nationals holding a master's or higher degree from U.S. universities from the cap on H-1B visas. In addition, excluded from the ceiling are all H-1B non-immigrants who work at (but not necessarily for) universities, non-profit research facilities associated with universities, and government research facilities.[5] Universities can employ an unlimited number of foreign workers as cap-exempt. This also means that contractors working at but not directly employed by the institutions may be exempt from the cap as well. Free Trade Agreements carve out 1,400 H-1B1 visas for Chilean nationals and 5,400 H-1B1 visas for Singapore nationals. However, if these reserved visas are not used, then they are made available in the next fiscal year to applicants from other countries. Due to these unlimited exemptions and roll-overs, the number of H-1B visas issued each year is significantly more than the 65,000 cap, with 117,828 having been issued in FY2010, 129,552 in FY2011, and 135,991 in FY2012.[6][7]"
H-1B visa holders can bring immediate family members (spouse and children under 21)..as dependents..not eligible to work..a DHS ruling provides ..eligibility to work,..attend school, get a driver's license, and open a bank account in the U.S.
2
Its time for Americans to Boycott Toys R US.....Don't buy Anything from them!!!
6
A big thank you to our Do Nothing Congress who just stabbed America in the back yet again... Congratulations!
Why is it that our Congress deliberately weakens our country? It's not Rocket Science: JOBS THAT STAY IN AMERICA ARE GOOD FOR AMERICA! Corporations do NOT matter more than our country! They do not mater more than the people! Why has Congress set up laws that allow this?
Heck, let's face it: all large multinationals are not even strictly Americans. They are essentially country-less entities. Corporations are loyal only to their own means, methods, and owners - nothing more. Thy never have and never will be. This is just... REALITY. It is built into the essential nature of corporations that they protect their private interests first. However, this does NOT mean that we as the people are obliged to go along or to help them. All statements that are contrary to this are one thing only: corporate messaging that serves the company's own interests.
It was only a very narrow slice in time after WWII when "what is good for GM is good for the country." Corporations would have Americans believe that this big business relationship with Americans has never changed, and that being Pro-big-business is somehow "patriotic." Sadly, in 2015, nothing could be further from the truth. Large corporations have done more to damage this nation in the last 50 years than all other negative elements combined.
Why is it that our Congress deliberately weakens our country? It's not Rocket Science: JOBS THAT STAY IN AMERICA ARE GOOD FOR AMERICA! Corporations do NOT matter more than our country! They do not mater more than the people! Why has Congress set up laws that allow this?
Heck, let's face it: all large multinationals are not even strictly Americans. They are essentially country-less entities. Corporations are loyal only to their own means, methods, and owners - nothing more. Thy never have and never will be. This is just... REALITY. It is built into the essential nature of corporations that they protect their private interests first. However, this does NOT mean that we as the people are obliged to go along or to help them. All statements that are contrary to this are one thing only: corporate messaging that serves the company's own interests.
It was only a very narrow slice in time after WWII when "what is good for GM is good for the country." Corporations would have Americans believe that this big business relationship with Americans has never changed, and that being Pro-big-business is somehow "patriotic." Sadly, in 2015, nothing could be further from the truth. Large corporations have done more to damage this nation in the last 50 years than all other negative elements combined.
6
God help this miserable country of ours. Heartless people sure call the shots here.
9
Yes but we can have the last word by not buying and spreading the word. So just maybe the doors will be shut, and then their workers over seas can sit and twiddle their thumbs.
5
When American companies owned by American business people see no conflict in their valuation of money above their fellow American citizen's lives it is time to drop them from the stores we use and find our kids toys elsewhere..
6
The issue can be compared to anti-dumping trade law. Human resources, like solar panels, are business expenses. Consider the differences in a global context.
Recently, Chinese solar panels were charged dumping fees by the US Trade authorities. Import duties were increased on most Chinese made solar panels depending on the degree of unfair pricing determined using trade rules applied against several Chinese manufacturers.
American solar panel manufacturers and installers were in favor or opposed respectively to anti-dumping tribunal tariffs. Both associations had national representation that funded lawyers to represent their respective positions to an authorities. These legal fees are tax deductible expenses.
Now consider the H1-B visa use by Toys-R-Us.
The facts indicate that the Indian workers hired were contracted through Tata agency to learn American accounting jobs so that those jobs could be exported to India and American workers terminated, with 'severance', and replaced by Indian workers.
There is no doubt that American jobs were being exported. There is not a similar trade tribunal process to adjudicate H1-B violations. The workers at Toys-R-US are not unionized. And they do not have legal representation to have their case raised to a competent authority or tribunal.
What does it all mean?
Unless those Americans losing their jobs at Toy-R-US receive sufficient costs to cover retraining and job search resettlement they are being treated unfairly.
Recently, Chinese solar panels were charged dumping fees by the US Trade authorities. Import duties were increased on most Chinese made solar panels depending on the degree of unfair pricing determined using trade rules applied against several Chinese manufacturers.
American solar panel manufacturers and installers were in favor or opposed respectively to anti-dumping tribunal tariffs. Both associations had national representation that funded lawyers to represent their respective positions to an authorities. These legal fees are tax deductible expenses.
Now consider the H1-B visa use by Toys-R-Us.
The facts indicate that the Indian workers hired were contracted through Tata agency to learn American accounting jobs so that those jobs could be exported to India and American workers terminated, with 'severance', and replaced by Indian workers.
There is no doubt that American jobs were being exported. There is not a similar trade tribunal process to adjudicate H1-B violations. The workers at Toys-R-US are not unionized. And they do not have legal representation to have their case raised to a competent authority or tribunal.
What does it all mean?
Unless those Americans losing their jobs at Toy-R-US receive sufficient costs to cover retraining and job search resettlement they are being treated unfairly.
2
I will go to Toys R' US tomorrow, fill up my cart, then remember that the real buyer of all those toys live in another country.
I will never step foot in Toys R' Us again - and I am posting this story on my HOA and local school website. Any money Toys R' Us saved will be lost in bad publicity. The GIraffe is creepy.
I will never step foot in Toys R' Us again - and I am posting this story on my HOA and local school website. Any money Toys R' Us saved will be lost in bad publicity. The GIraffe is creepy.
9
Top H1B Sponsors - 7 are Indian outsourcing companies.IBM is an indian company with more than 120000 employees in India.
1 Infosys 23,816 $76,794
2 Tata Consultancy Services 14,096 $67,673
3 Wipro 8,365 $69,936
4 IBM 7,944 $87,227
5 Deloitte Consulting 7,016 $102,112
6 Accenture 5,509 $75,532
7 Hcl America 4,749 $81,223
8 Tech Mahindra (Americas) 4,600 $73,025
9 Larsen & Toubro Infotech 4,365 $69,943
10 Ernst & Young 3,976 $89,350
1 Infosys 23,816 $76,794
2 Tata Consultancy Services 14,096 $67,673
3 Wipro 8,365 $69,936
4 IBM 7,944 $87,227
5 Deloitte Consulting 7,016 $102,112
6 Accenture 5,509 $75,532
7 Hcl America 4,749 $81,223
8 Tech Mahindra (Americas) 4,600 $73,025
9 Larsen & Toubro Infotech 4,365 $69,943
10 Ernst & Young 3,976 $89,350
2
Those are self-reported salaries, not verified. Further investigation is needed.
2
The H-1B, and probably other special visas require certification by the prospective employer that people with the necessary qualifications aren't available (in the US), and that people being imported (so to speak) have the specialized skills and know-how. These conditions clearly were not met in the Disney and Toys 'R Us examples described in the article.
I'm not a lawyer -- but these seem to be prosecutable offenses. Why isn't our government going after these malefactors and others like them? (Pardon my naïveté!)
I'm not a lawyer -- but these seem to be prosecutable offenses. Why isn't our government going after these malefactors and others like them? (Pardon my naïveté!)
9
Infosys says the company's use of B-1 visas was for "legitimate" business purposes and not in any way intended to circumvent the requirements of the H-1B program.
- On top H1b abuse..L-1 and B-1 visas abuse..I think they will bring people even in a tourist visa..all fraud and corrupt practices followed by these Indian outsourcing companies.No ethics and no values.
- On top H1b abuse..L-1 and B-1 visas abuse..I think they will bring people even in a tourist visa..all fraud and corrupt practices followed by these Indian outsourcing companies.No ethics and no values.
7
The main purpose of H1B - real life, not fantasy, is to find a variety of ways to take jobs from middle class American workers. Whether it has someone come here to take a programming job for a year or two, or to take job skills back to India, the result is the same. There are huge numbers of formerly middle class Americans who are now either forcibly retired, unemployed, or underemployed who would take good jobs in their field if only they could get them. My own work in financial IT has mostly disappeared either to the far east or odd spots in the US like Salt Lake City, and like so many others, I have to work in a menial job at a small fraction of what I used to earn (yes, earn because of my effort and skills), causing great hardship to my family and me. PLEASE end H1B and like programs and bring the jobs back!
7
Either tear up the rules for H-1B visas or make the legislation have meaning. Let the Republican House stand in the way such legislation. The fight would be instructive and worth it. Or, aren't the Dems up to it.
8
Probably not; the only recourse is exposure, like this fine story and the earlier one about Disney, and highly publicized boycotting. Only the pocketbook makes a difference.
7
This is pure insanity. New York Life was breaking sales record year after year. What was so wrong that they have drastically clean house? So many loyal Lifer's were absolutely devastated. CEO Ted Matthas, just like any other ivy league trained lemmings only knows how to follow the current mindles management trend from his ivory tower buddies. Even sadder is NYL is a mutual company. They don't face the same stupid pressure publicly traded company on a quarterly basis. The company use to have integrity, not any more. Potential policy buyers should consider alternative life insurance companies.
11
If you Americans want a global market to sell your products, then why not a global labor market.
Its true that multinational company's share holders are getting undue benefit from comparatively less salary in India. Maybe your government should find some way to solve inequality because of that.
Please don't try to destroy a global labor market that is benefiting many software engineers in India, like me. In fact, many of software engineers in India are working for American/European projects to make your life better/easier, that is already better because of historical reasons, Of course that is helping many of us to have a better life too.
Its true that multinational company's share holders are getting undue benefit from comparatively less salary in India. Maybe your government should find some way to solve inequality because of that.
Please don't try to destroy a global labor market that is benefiting many software engineers in India, like me. In fact, many of software engineers in India are working for American/European projects to make your life better/easier, that is already better because of historical reasons, Of course that is helping many of us to have a better life too.
3
So, what does Donald Trump have to say about these immigrants taking jobs from Americans?
7
Trump is the record against H-1B visas.
donald has married two immigrants in his life.
1
This happened to me four years ago (I trained Tata consultants and my job was shipped to India). What irritates me most about the situation is how the same Republicans who pander to the anti immigration folks will turn around and increase the H1B visas available. (To be fair, Democrats also support H1B, but at least they don't call the Latinos criminals and rapists).
The Latinos coming here work (and pay taxes) in the United States. While many of the visa holders do as well, they facilitate the movement of those jobs to other countries. I suspect that far more jobs are lost to H1B than to "illegal immigration".
The Latinos coming here work (and pay taxes) in the United States. While many of the visa holders do as well, they facilitate the movement of those jobs to other countries. I suspect that far more jobs are lost to H1B than to "illegal immigration".
17
I worked at Microsoft for 3 years as a contractor, because nearly all full-time job offers went to visa-toting foreigners willing to work 16-hour days. I have a college degree and had spent 10 years in software development, but since the "Great" Recession (Great for the 1%!) I went from a full-time professional to a contract worker with no rights, no guarantees and ever-increasing pay cuts. Last year, MS began importing young Indian women in droves. The average contract wage on my team was about $24/hr (no benefits or sick leave). We were told to allow a group of these girls, who spoke little English, to follow us everywhere and observe all that we did. We were told to answer all questions, and if we were non-compliant we would be terminated. These girls were being paid $12/hr and living 5 or 6 to an apartment; the CEO took home $84 million in compensation.
America is becoming a 3rd-world country run by a 1st-world oligarchy (the 1%). Clearly, the political process is broken, corporations and banks run government, politicians are corrupt, and it will not get better on its own.
America is becoming a 3rd-world country run by a 1st-world oligarchy (the 1%). Clearly, the political process is broken, corporations and banks run government, politicians are corrupt, and it will not get better on its own.
33
This kind of situation has become commonplace. I think we don't protest vigorously because, frankly, we have no faith that a liberal or progressive alternative exists. Obama nailed that coffin shut.
After hopelessness comes anger and recklessness, hence the Tea Party, who found hope that a conservative alternative can be built.
After hopelessness comes anger and recklessness, hence the Tea Party, who found hope that a conservative alternative can be built.
1
In the next round of debates, every single presidential candidate -- Republican and Democratic -- needs to be asked what they intend to do about this, and are they willing to terminate the H-1B program entirely if they cannot guarantee that it will not be abused.
I say just kill the H-1B program. With the size of the American workforce, it is difficult to imagine any employer actually NEEDS to go overseas. They may WANT to -- probably because it is cheaper to get someone from India who will view the job as a huge step up, rather than recruiting someone from Ohio who will have to downsize and struggle to afford a broom closet in San Francisco at the salary the employer can pay the Indian.
Globalization -- and the risks, volatility and harm it wreaks on the US economy -- is a choice. Here is one place we can start choosing differently.
I say just kill the H-1B program. With the size of the American workforce, it is difficult to imagine any employer actually NEEDS to go overseas. They may WANT to -- probably because it is cheaper to get someone from India who will view the job as a huge step up, rather than recruiting someone from Ohio who will have to downsize and struggle to afford a broom closet in San Francisco at the salary the employer can pay the Indian.
Globalization -- and the risks, volatility and harm it wreaks on the US economy -- is a choice. Here is one place we can start choosing differently.
11
Do anyone know the exact QE from 2008.I think it should be around 3 trillion dollars. All the money flowed into stock market. No real job growth. Unemployment figures - 5.7 percent is a fake one.Middle class struggles more after 2008 financial crisis and no one cares.
8
I trained an Accenture H-1B at a major auto insurance company in 2008-2010. He then delegated tasks by his co-workers in Bangalore.
The intention was to replace most of the American workers in the department, which handled IVR, call center etc.
The intention was to replace most of the American workers in the department, which handled IVR, call center etc.
7
...what is "IVR?"
Inventory?
Inventory?
no more toys R 'us this xmas for me
10
If Toys "R" Us and other companies like them eliminate these jobs, who do they thing will shop in their stores? The folks whose jobs they are eliminating: those are the demographics of their target customers. This is foolish short-term thinking and not sustainable to our economy.
13
The article makes the Indian team sound like robots and unskilled. If anyone is working on accounting for 15 years, nobody can pick up the skills on day 1. Of course someone will take note of all the actions so that at least the company maintains a status Quo.
People: The outsourcing companies also employ college educated people. Instead of demonizing these people think of them as the current worker's counterpart on the other side of the globe. Just as any US employee these people along with their families also graduated and found a job so that they can survive. You are not talking about Arab Sheikhs mercilessly stealing US jobs here but middle class people making their ends meet.
Globalization: Companies are all over the world. In India Coco Cola and Pepsi took over all the major soda companies (Gold Spot, Limca etc..). Until recently , India does not engage in high end electronics manufacturing because it is cheaper for India to import thus affecting all the engineering and R&D jobs. There are many cases were a lot of multi national companies are selling products in India making it impossible for Indian companies to set shop. Now in a country of more than 1 billion people how can Indians contribute to the value chain of the goods they are consuming. If you prevent Indians from participating in the production of these goods, then it is no different than the colonial era. Not to mention India is a global power and will negotiate for jobs.
People: The outsourcing companies also employ college educated people. Instead of demonizing these people think of them as the current worker's counterpart on the other side of the globe. Just as any US employee these people along with their families also graduated and found a job so that they can survive. You are not talking about Arab Sheikhs mercilessly stealing US jobs here but middle class people making their ends meet.
Globalization: Companies are all over the world. In India Coco Cola and Pepsi took over all the major soda companies (Gold Spot, Limca etc..). Until recently , India does not engage in high end electronics manufacturing because it is cheaper for India to import thus affecting all the engineering and R&D jobs. There are many cases were a lot of multi national companies are selling products in India making it impossible for Indian companies to set shop. Now in a country of more than 1 billion people how can Indians contribute to the value chain of the goods they are consuming. If you prevent Indians from participating in the production of these goods, then it is no different than the colonial era. Not to mention India is a global power and will negotiate for jobs.
4
College degrees in India are not the same as college degrees in America.
7
When most of our jobs are gone because they've been eliminated or taken over by computers and the few people left who are bosses or operate the computers, how is this country going to function?
Where will the money come to maintain our $17 trillion dollar economy and our multi-trillion dollar government spending?
The people who are so eager to reduce headcount and boost corporate profits should ask themselves if they are ruining their own future as well as the future of the business world and the government as we know it here in America.
Before allowing our workforce and labor markets to be destroyed and rebuilt into God knows what -- because the individuals deciding to destroy jobs have no idea what the cumulative effect of their actions will be -- we'd all better start demanding some worker protections while we try to figure how America will function as a society and economy with far more people than jobs.
Where will the money come to maintain our $17 trillion dollar economy and our multi-trillion dollar government spending?
The people who are so eager to reduce headcount and boost corporate profits should ask themselves if they are ruining their own future as well as the future of the business world and the government as we know it here in America.
Before allowing our workforce and labor markets to be destroyed and rebuilt into God knows what -- because the individuals deciding to destroy jobs have no idea what the cumulative effect of their actions will be -- we'd all better start demanding some worker protections while we try to figure how America will function as a society and economy with far more people than jobs.
11
As a small high tech company employer, the network of Indian college students turned H1B job holders is extensive. They know how to work the system to their advantage. During our sponsorship, we discovered they have message boards they use to tell each other everything from how to get away with not working long hours (I kid you not) to how long they have to wait to quit a job for a more lucrative one after their current employer has expended thousands of dollars and lots of man hours getting their H1B visas renewed.
Our experience was not positive. The H1B employee we hired was inferior in skill set and knowledge to his American-born co-workers (which we learned AFTER hiring him and paying money for his sponsorship), he had a very poor work ethic and took an inordinate amount of sick time (yet another "message board" complaint... how to deal with "demanding" employers when you're "low energy".)
Our experience was not unique. As one HR person told me, "we will never sponsor another H1B employee." While they look great on paper, their reasoning skills and level of intellectual curiosity are subpar in many cases. No doubt there are "star" players who do very well and move up the ladder quickly, but like everything else in life, they are the exception, not the rule. Smaller tech employers do themselves a disservice when they fall into the H1B trap; we've been very happy with the quality of U.S. engineers we hire now.
Our experience was not positive. The H1B employee we hired was inferior in skill set and knowledge to his American-born co-workers (which we learned AFTER hiring him and paying money for his sponsorship), he had a very poor work ethic and took an inordinate amount of sick time (yet another "message board" complaint... how to deal with "demanding" employers when you're "low energy".)
Our experience was not unique. As one HR person told me, "we will never sponsor another H1B employee." While they look great on paper, their reasoning skills and level of intellectual curiosity are subpar in many cases. No doubt there are "star" players who do very well and move up the ladder quickly, but like everything else in life, they are the exception, not the rule. Smaller tech employers do themselves a disservice when they fall into the H1B trap; we've been very happy with the quality of U.S. engineers we hire now.
23
I come from India and have been on H1B in the past. I must say that in the last 3-4 years H1Bs have been abused in the worst possible manner. I personally am disgusted by the activities of some consulting companies. I am also one of the advocates for change in policies because this is just not right.
Outsourcing companies, resume-faking companies and substandard universities have spoiled India's name in the worst possible manner. I am also an advocate of the fact that the number of visas must be increased, but that should happen only after all the junkies are thrown out and the system is cleaned out, so that genuine people who can add value can come into the country when needed and IT Consultants can once again walk with their head held high and get the respect they deserve.
Outsourcing companies, resume-faking companies and substandard universities have spoiled India's name in the worst possible manner. I am also an advocate of the fact that the number of visas must be increased, but that should happen only after all the junkies are thrown out and the system is cleaned out, so that genuine people who can add value can come into the country when needed and IT Consultants can once again walk with their head held high and get the respect they deserve.
13
I am curious about why you think the numerical limits for these various visas programs should be increased?
If the fraud and misuse you mention was eliminated, all those misallocated visas would be freed up for legitimate purposes. That would be many thousands of additional visas available right there, without increasing the numerical limits.
We are not creating all that many jobs in the US. Our population is growing rapidly though. I do not understand the constant insistence that we need to be issuing more visas to high tech workers, with no mention made of how long this is supposed to go on. Surely we should be trying to train our own people to do our jobs.
If the fraud and misuse you mention was eliminated, all those misallocated visas would be freed up for legitimate purposes. That would be many thousands of additional visas available right there, without increasing the numerical limits.
We are not creating all that many jobs in the US. Our population is growing rapidly though. I do not understand the constant insistence that we need to be issuing more visas to high tech workers, with no mention made of how long this is supposed to go on. Surely we should be trying to train our own people to do our jobs.
6
Well Joan, the issue is that there are plenty of students who come here every year to study and that number has gone up. See, the current number of H1Bs that are filed every year goes to about 200000 applications for a quota of 65000+20000 (for Masters & PhD candidates). Even if you assume that 50% of that 200k don't deserve a visa, there still is a shortage. At least students should be honored with an increase.
You would be surprised to know that we are creating that many jobs in the US and you would also be surprised that tons of these jobs are not filled. I have a startup and have quite a few American and non-immigrant workers. We have advertised positions in all the job boards, but no American applies for them. We are offering a very competitive salary too. This country has given me an opportunity to study, work and even have my own company. I want to say thanks, but nobody seems to apply. Guess what. We recently interviewed 2 candidates who said they will not work with Indians, even after being told that there are other Americans in the company. Now, i understand you are upset with a lot of Indians, but that doesn't mean you reject what you are getting. Another person wanted 10k sign on bonus and 1 day work from home since his GF is long distance!! These kind of requests do not come in from non-immigrant workers. As a company we want to get our job done and need to look at non-immigrant workers, who cannot be in the market if the quota is not there.
You would be surprised to know that we are creating that many jobs in the US and you would also be surprised that tons of these jobs are not filled. I have a startup and have quite a few American and non-immigrant workers. We have advertised positions in all the job boards, but no American applies for them. We are offering a very competitive salary too. This country has given me an opportunity to study, work and even have my own company. I want to say thanks, but nobody seems to apply. Guess what. We recently interviewed 2 candidates who said they will not work with Indians, even after being told that there are other Americans in the company. Now, i understand you are upset with a lot of Indians, but that doesn't mean you reject what you are getting. Another person wanted 10k sign on bonus and 1 day work from home since his GF is long distance!! These kind of requests do not come in from non-immigrant workers. As a company we want to get our job done and need to look at non-immigrant workers, who cannot be in the market if the quota is not there.
2
We should not be worried about building a wall between the U.S. and Mexico.
We should be worried that the real cost of illegal immigration is Corporate America illegally using immigration laws to replace American jobs. This is disgraceful. Toys R Us and other companies named here will never get my business again.
And Trump is worried about Americans getting raped by illegal Hispanics? We are getting it right up the you-know-what by our own U.S. companies.
We should be worried that the real cost of illegal immigration is Corporate America illegally using immigration laws to replace American jobs. This is disgraceful. Toys R Us and other companies named here will never get my business again.
And Trump is worried about Americans getting raped by illegal Hispanics? We are getting it right up the you-know-what by our own U.S. companies.
32
We need a wall and must stop the H-1B program. Trump will do both.
Isn't this what capitalism is all about, race to the bottom for the masses, staying at the top for the fortunate few?
It's shameless behaviour from Toys "R" Us and other similar companies.
Customers can always vote with their feet and dollars. Do it!
It's shameless behaviour from Toys "R" Us and other similar companies.
Customers can always vote with their feet and dollars. Do it!
14
Toys R Us has lost my family's business.
15
1. "where immigrants replaced Americans in jobs they were doing in this country"
CORRECTION - Immigrant = a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. The workers coming to get training and taking the jobs overseas are not immigrant.
2. People who comes to get training to take the jobs overseas DO NOT come on H1-B. Their Visa category is different. H1-B is reserved for highly skilled workers who come and work in US, not to take them back home.
CORRECTION - Immigrant = a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country. The workers coming to get training and taking the jobs overseas are not immigrant.
2. People who comes to get training to take the jobs overseas DO NOT come on H1-B. Their Visa category is different. H1-B is reserved for highly skilled workers who come and work in US, not to take them back home.
3
that is absolutely correct.
This reads as a disgraceful abuse of American workers and any guest worker system. We need guest workers to meet the many demands that cannot be filled by workers here NOT to export jobs. Why is there no enforcement of our laws? We are so back to the US of Gordon Gekko and the heartless raider 80s. We may even get a raider president with a cabinet of assistant raiders to run up trillions in public debt every year while hollowing out everything of value from the federal government and selling it off at pennies to the dollar - a complete cancer.
7
H-1B Visas are a fraud designed to replace well paid American workers with lesser paid foreign citizens.
I have nothing against any worker from any place trying to earn a living. I have plenty against those revolting corporate "persons" who abuse the system.
I'm making a list and checking it twice... of Companies who will never see a dime from me.
New York Life, Toys “R” Us, Disney, and lets not forget the union busters like Caterpillar.
Will I hurt their bottom line... I wish. Will I elevate my spirit - you bet.
What do I want from Santa - Instant Karma for these spokespersons, their bosses, their boards.
I have nothing against any worker from any place trying to earn a living. I have plenty against those revolting corporate "persons" who abuse the system.
I'm making a list and checking it twice... of Companies who will never see a dime from me.
New York Life, Toys “R” Us, Disney, and lets not forget the union busters like Caterpillar.
Will I hurt their bottom line... I wish. Will I elevate my spirit - you bet.
What do I want from Santa - Instant Karma for these spokespersons, their bosses, their boards.
12
To all those threatening to shop elsewhere this Christmas or cancel their insurance policy...are you also going to get rid of you iPhone (made in China), cancel your American Express card (service centers all over the world). Do I need to go on?
2
Like a spoiled child, if you allow them to continue their inappropriate behavior, the child usually gets worse. I don't own an I phone, nor do I have an American Express card. When I do have to call anyone in corporate America, (my cable company, my cell phone, utility companies, car or home owners insurance, I demand to speak to someone in the USA. Companies that are being Un-American need to be punished by NOT buying their goods. I will never go into Toys R Us again. I will also pray that no one in your family loses their job to outsourcing.
4
David Ross - I and many consumers of like mind are doing just that. There are many products we now purchase that we cannot obtain without foreign manufacturing input. However, there are VERY few of those products that were created by foreign companies. Yes, every time I read about the misuse of H-1B Visas or any other corporate actions trying to "game" our immigration, tax and export systems, I will stop buying their product. Although I have very young grandchildren, I will NEVER again buy at ToysRUs, and I have stopped buying Hershey products (majority now made in Mexico and now of very substandard quality with additives I do not wish to eat), others are on my list, and I will not budge until American corporations are required to behave as Americans and quit offshoring jobs, profits, etc. and treat American workers (no matter what their original country of origin) with respect.
3
You need to start somewhere and concentrate the pressure to be effective. Toys R Us and NY Life are well known companies. Make them an example of what can happen to a company that does this. I suggest we boycott them both. The NYT has put the spot light on them so their greedy anti US worker actions are documented and known.
6
The Temporary Worker program called H1B is broken, and we all know that. Most of H1Bs go to IT outsourcing companies and these companies also exploit a loophole called EB1C to grant these employees a green card in 3 months. The politicians know well what the issues are and how it can be fixed. But it is not profitable for them to fix the problem as it is more profitable for them to side with the lobbyists on either side. Fix the problem, and the lobbyists go away, instead perpetuate the problem and get election funding forever. The fundamental issue here is not the broken Guest Worker program but that 'Washington is broken'.
9
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies. Shame on the elected politicians for allowing this to happen. They are turning thier back on Americans once they are elected!
Contact your Senators and ask them to put an end to this abuse. Dont bother to contact Chuck Schumer of New York, he is against American workers.
Contact your Senators and ask them to put an end to this abuse. Dont bother to contact Chuck Schumer of New York, he is against American workers.
11
Perhaps I missed something, but does it say anywhere in this article that these human recorders were on H-1B visas? I can't imagine anyone, not even the most abusive company, wanting to waste a precious H-1B visa on someone whose sole job was to shadow another person with a camera phone. In fact, continuously recording keystrokes and screenshots can be easily done by software; such tools already exist on the market.
I know all these stories about temporary guest workers, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants, melt into one amorphous threatening mass in the eyes of the American public, but the New York Times owes it to its readers to gather and present precise and accurate facts so that the system can be reformed. Otherwise, articles like these simply spur calls for the H-1B program to be scrapped, making the people who have a legitimate use for the visa (in a way that benefits and does not hurt Americans) upset, and they double down on their own pro-guest worker activism. Everyone just keeps talking past each other and this vicious cycle goes on.
I know all these stories about temporary guest workers, legal immigrants, and illegal immigrants, melt into one amorphous threatening mass in the eyes of the American public, but the New York Times owes it to its readers to gather and present precise and accurate facts so that the system can be reformed. Otherwise, articles like these simply spur calls for the H-1B program to be scrapped, making the people who have a legitimate use for the visa (in a way that benefits and does not hurt Americans) upset, and they double down on their own pro-guest worker activism. Everyone just keeps talking past each other and this vicious cycle goes on.
6
Yes, the entire article was about the H-1B temporary foreign worker visa. It starts out in the opening paragraph all the way to the very end with the actual H-1B visa itself mentioned numerous times.
3
Kris, I am confused by your comments. You claim that the H-1B is nothing more than an "amorphous threatening mass in the eyes of the American public" and that the NYT did a disservice to its readers by failing to present precise and accurate facts so that the system can be reformed.
If, in your own words, the system needs to be reformed, there is a doubling down on "pro-guest worker activism" and the H-1B Program is somehow fostering a "vicious cycle", perhaps the Program does in fact need to be "scrapped".
If, in your own words, the system needs to be reformed, there is a doubling down on "pro-guest worker activism" and the H-1B Program is somehow fostering a "vicious cycle", perhaps the Program does in fact need to be "scrapped".
For this to appear on the front page of the Times now is disgraceful. The situation described has been going on, perhaps not in these two companies but in many others, for 6 years at least. IBM had their employees training their replacements that long as, as did others. The Disney and Southern Cal Edison examples are very visible and a couple of years old, but far from the only ones.
But that said, it's hard to know how to stop it, other than to observe that these companies are eliminating their customers.
But that said, it's hard to know how to stop it, other than to observe that these companies are eliminating their customers.
7
I wonder if the "moral booster," Geoffrey the Giraffe, was tasked with handing out the pink slips at T"R"U.
I wonder how many presidential hopefuls along with the politicians in both parties own Toys R Us stock and New York Life Insurance stock in their portfolios. I wonder if the pension funds of city, state, and federal employees own the same stock. They should all be held responsible for the coming depression. The economy is crashing; mutual funds and public sector pension funds are destroying Americas military and economic might. Might, does not make right, it is the might of right that secures a free and just society.
1
New York Life is not a publicly traded company so there is no stock to buy.
The writer failed to explain the illegality of outsourcing. As long as those industrialists with money seek more bang for their buck many manufacturing, and now high tech servicing, jobs will be outsourced. The fault lies in our blind obeisance to the mantra of "free trade". Years ago Ross Perot was lampooned for suggesting precisely this outcome. Seems prescient now, doesn't it?
5
That's capitalism and the free market: big business can do whatever they want to make $$, workers be damned. All you union bashers, take note: this would not have happened if these workers had had a strong union to back them up.
9
Oh, yea, what's all those former American jobs doing in Mexico?
A good article, but lacks soul and substance. While the article blames off-shore outsourcing countries for the flight of IT jobs, the author has eluded major facts:
a) To stop flight of jobs to a cheap foreign worker or far off lands, inflation needs to be tamed at home. The relentless pursuit of profit plus reflationary fiscal policy (QE) to boost economy, creates conditions ill-suited to age old traditions of job creation and sustenance through unaffordable housing and living costs, which puts pressure on wages. But this hike in wages is never matched by profits due to increased competition and share price economics.
b) People should always remember, in business, there is no one way approach. When US allows H1-B visas, they should be getting something, equal or even more. USA now have the Indian market for her multinationals - Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Ford, Google, facebook and countless more. They are making money in India, from India. To prove a point, many Indian soft drink companies ran out of business when foreign companies came in and lamenting has never helped.
So what can India export to the US on the same scale, being a developing/under developed country? The answer is simple, skilled human resource.
Agreed, there should be a balance in every approach and blatant misuse should be resisted. But in a global business world, can any country shut its doors and enact protectionist policies? The answer is NO.
a) To stop flight of jobs to a cheap foreign worker or far off lands, inflation needs to be tamed at home. The relentless pursuit of profit plus reflationary fiscal policy (QE) to boost economy, creates conditions ill-suited to age old traditions of job creation and sustenance through unaffordable housing and living costs, which puts pressure on wages. But this hike in wages is never matched by profits due to increased competition and share price economics.
b) People should always remember, in business, there is no one way approach. When US allows H1-B visas, they should be getting something, equal or even more. USA now have the Indian market for her multinationals - Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Ford, Google, facebook and countless more. They are making money in India, from India. To prove a point, many Indian soft drink companies ran out of business when foreign companies came in and lamenting has never helped.
So what can India export to the US on the same scale, being a developing/under developed country? The answer is simple, skilled human resource.
Agreed, there should be a balance in every approach and blatant misuse should be resisted. But in a global business world, can any country shut its doors and enact protectionist policies? The answer is NO.
2
In this global economy, many nations *do* shut their doors and follow protectionist policies. Take China and Japan, for example -- probably India, too. One result is that the US is played for a sucker, to increase the profits of selected companies.
When Americans are thrown out of work, government has to step in to help the displaced workers. This, we taxpayers subsidize companies that harm workers.
When Americans are thrown out of work, government has to step in to help the displaced workers. This, we taxpayers subsidize companies that harm workers.
1
@Global Citizen: I think you missed the flow of money. It is from the lower-paid to the top, Whether the money goes from India to the U.S. or vice versa is not important to the companies and bosses involved.
I can't imagine a dumber idea than outsourcing your financial dealings to another company in another country that is, already, known to be home to cybercriminals. If anything defines a company, it is its ability to make money.
Not only does this compromise the internal finances of the company doing the outsourcing, it risks the confidentiality of its dealings with suppliers and by extension, those suppliers own internal security. Has the Target debacle not taught company executives that letting any outsiders into your computer systems is a very bad idea?
Not only does this compromise the internal finances of the company doing the outsourcing, it risks the confidentiality of its dealings with suppliers and by extension, those suppliers own internal security. Has the Target debacle not taught company executives that letting any outsiders into your computer systems is a very bad idea?
6
I've asked my senators about extending the Zadrogda Act - this imposed a $2000 charge on each H1b visa and it expires tomorrow. The staff at both offices were unaware of this and would let their boss know... I guess we'll see how that went.
Maybe other senators know?
Maybe other senators know?
12
Margo --
Good for you for taking the initiative to contact your Senators on this.
An even better idea would be for the $2,000 to go to $20,000 or maybe even $50,000 per year the foreign worker is here. If companies really need foreign workers for the good of their bottom line, even an annual $50,000 fee wouldn't be too much for real "talent" that we truly cannot supply from our own workforce.
As things stand now and as this article only proves, a lot of employment-based immigration is nothing more than a legalized scam that permits companies doing business here charge Americans top dollar for their goods and services while they do all they can not to hire American workers.
Good for you for taking the initiative to contact your Senators on this.
An even better idea would be for the $2,000 to go to $20,000 or maybe even $50,000 per year the foreign worker is here. If companies really need foreign workers for the good of their bottom line, even an annual $50,000 fee wouldn't be too much for real "talent" that we truly cannot supply from our own workforce.
As things stand now and as this article only proves, a lot of employment-based immigration is nothing more than a legalized scam that permits companies doing business here charge Americans top dollar for their goods and services while they do all they can not to hire American workers.
4
Thanks. I'll let my Senatirs know also. I am sure they haven't a clue either.
A decade ago I was working at a Toys "R" Us store! I had intended to just be there one summer and then move on, but I liked it and was good at it, and continued on while I worked on my degrees.
I would have loved to have worked my way up, especially as the Great Recession loomed and hit around the time I graduated. So, I applied for a corporate training program the "'Rus" had at the time.
I got a phone interview, but for whatever reason, I didn't make the cut. I never head about the corporate program again after that.
It gets me so mad that there are probably a lot of hard working people in the field stores who might be just as skilled as these H-1B flunkies--perhaps even more skilled in the case of college students working at the toy store part-time--but aren't getting opportunities because of these loopholes.
If the "R"Us companies can fly-in and house folks from thousands of miles away to snatch jobs, they could get just as many U.S.-based qualified team members with ambition and pride in their company to work in Wayne. Without at least a modicum of a chance to advance to a decent career, work at a big-box store or a distribution center really is a just dead-end job.
I would have loved to have worked my way up, especially as the Great Recession loomed and hit around the time I graduated. So, I applied for a corporate training program the "'Rus" had at the time.
I got a phone interview, but for whatever reason, I didn't make the cut. I never head about the corporate program again after that.
It gets me so mad that there are probably a lot of hard working people in the field stores who might be just as skilled as these H-1B flunkies--perhaps even more skilled in the case of college students working at the toy store part-time--but aren't getting opportunities because of these loopholes.
If the "R"Us companies can fly-in and house folks from thousands of miles away to snatch jobs, they could get just as many U.S.-based qualified team members with ambition and pride in their company to work in Wayne. Without at least a modicum of a chance to advance to a decent career, work at a big-box store or a distribution center really is a just dead-end job.
15
My 5 grand children will be receiving their presents from anywhere but Toys R US and their sleazy ilk.
Both parties are culpable. Neither represent the interests of their constituents. The only person running that I trust is Sanders.
I'd like to see how many millions these Indian outsourcing companies have shoveled into the Clinton Foundation as well as the super Pacs.
Both parties are culpable. Neither represent the interests of their constituents. The only person running that I trust is Sanders.
I'd like to see how many millions these Indian outsourcing companies have shoveled into the Clinton Foundation as well as the super Pacs.
8
The terms of H1-B visas are being violated. For example, the domestic companies in question have to certify (in writing, I believe) that they sought qualified Americans but couldn't find any. Obviously, Toys 'R Us must have lied on the documents they submitted to the government.
The government should take legal and administrative actions against the domestic and foreign companies that perpetrate these outrages (don't hold your breath waiting for such action , though).
The government should take legal and administrative actions against the domestic and foreign companies that perpetrate these outrages (don't hold your breath waiting for such action , though).
3
H1B visa is totally abused by these Indian outsourcing companies. Approx 20000 startups in bay area can't even get 1 percent of the total 65000 visas.All the major 4 outsourcing companies use almost 50 K H1B visas plus L1 plus B1.The whole purpose of H1B is defeated.
12
As the CEO of Lazarus Alliance, the proactive cyber security firm based in the USA, this trend is escalating the cyber security risks to these corporations by introducing weak security practices through and by these outsourcing supply companies. They are not subject to our laws and regulations for cyber security. It is up to the company to be diligent and conduct a proper risk assessment. There is roughly a 67% failure rate on corporate risk assessment adequacy which is now going to increase even more. The silver lining here is that CEOs are now losing their jobs due to breaches. Just deserts!
5
Once again American corporations give us a reason to be ashamed. Hiding behind self serving statements and the drive to lower costs, they really believe it is their fiduciary responsibility to injure the American worker in the process?
In some sense though, the American worker is reaping what they have sown over the past 40 years, buying into the notion that unions were bad a thing because they raised costs. Yes the cost they raised was the wage and benefits you recieved to participate in the American economy. Believing an individual has leverage against any corporation or employer, large or small without the numbers to back them up is such a silly thought as to not be entertained. Yet that blind spot persist. Think about what would happen tyo Toys R us if the entire finance and accounting dept walked out in protest for a day? We teach others to do are jobs so we can lose ours? What difference does it make to leave now or a few months later? Perhaps we could have a congressional version of this, getting in lower paid foreign legislators to shadow our congressmen and senators, then replace them at lower cost. Better yet, the how about the dept of labor?
We must stop viewing American corporations as partners in the American way of life. That time has passed and the social contract between government, business and labor no longer exists. The weak partner of this triumvirate, the American worker has lost ground for the past 40 years. Serfdom looms large in the near future.
In some sense though, the American worker is reaping what they have sown over the past 40 years, buying into the notion that unions were bad a thing because they raised costs. Yes the cost they raised was the wage and benefits you recieved to participate in the American economy. Believing an individual has leverage against any corporation or employer, large or small without the numbers to back them up is such a silly thought as to not be entertained. Yet that blind spot persist. Think about what would happen tyo Toys R us if the entire finance and accounting dept walked out in protest for a day? We teach others to do are jobs so we can lose ours? What difference does it make to leave now or a few months later? Perhaps we could have a congressional version of this, getting in lower paid foreign legislators to shadow our congressmen and senators, then replace them at lower cost. Better yet, the how about the dept of labor?
We must stop viewing American corporations as partners in the American way of life. That time has passed and the social contract between government, business and labor no longer exists. The weak partner of this triumvirate, the American worker has lost ground for the past 40 years. Serfdom looms large in the near future.
3
I have no illusions about these corporations, regardless of the flag they fly. They are all enemies that will exploit the workers for every penny. I've declared my own personal war on these traitors and have suspended all normal moral instincts in my dealings with them.
2
---William Werfelman, a vice president and spokesman at New York Life, said the outsourcing was part of a transformation of its technology systems that would soon result in more jobs in the United States. “Our decisions are centered on keeping the company competitive, keeping it in the United States, keeping it growing,” he said.---
Bravo, Mr. Werfelman. You have mastered the art of doublespeak. Outsource jobs so you can create jobs in the U.S. George Orwell would be amazed.
Bravo, Mr. Werfelman. You have mastered the art of doublespeak. Outsource jobs so you can create jobs in the U.S. George Orwell would be amazed.
24
It is now official: Americans have been sold out by their political and industrial leaders.
14
Yes, and I want to sell them out, too.
Almost 400 billion revenue earned from Software and Services by Indian outsourcing companies. Its a very huge amount .Every quarter each outsourcing companies are growing by 40-50 % in revenue. People need to realize that here almost 151 million got government benefits in 2011 and constantly need more help.Don't give people just food stamps .Provide them proper education,training,health insurance and more importantly good meaningful jobs. No one needs food stamps and retail sales jobs.Bring back the IT jobs to US.
9
Well I know where I will not be buying any gifts at for the upcoming holiday season, and I have a lot of young children in my family whom I buy for, same goes for any new life insurance policies. I invite those of you reading my words to join me.
26
Attention CEOs of NY Life, Toys R Us, Disney or anyone else to does this: you can no longer say you're a "job creator." At least not of American jobs.
20
Thats probably not what they call themselves. Its what Republican tax-cutters call them.
2
The New York Times is doing a good job on this issue with H1-B visas. With workforce participation rates at levels not seen in 40 years, why are we bringing in these foreigners to take American jobs. It's not just Congress or Republicans, Democrats and the Obama administration are just as silent on this issue as well.
When will the Times take a similar stand on illegal aliens flooding across our southern border taking the jobs of lower skilled Americans?
When will the Times take a similar stand on illegal aliens flooding across our southern border taking the jobs of lower skilled Americans?
7
And this is why some of what the Donald is spewing is finding support!
9
This is not the same issue at all. H1-B visa's are supposedly for "high tech" jobs that Americans can't do, and these are not immigrants, as per the article, they returned to their own country to perform the work. Interesting that Americans can't do these jobs according to their employers, but they can train others in foreign countries to do them, eh?
4
Not talking about the immigrant issue but about taxing companies issue. Don't think anyone is saying Americans can't do their jobs - they are saying they are too expensive.
Do we really have to start a revolution in the country to stop this 1% treason against the common good? However, we all know what the problem is. If those from the majority of US citizens: us "lazy", "white", "afraid of change", "racist" white people protest, riot and threaten enough to perhaps stop, or slow this 'complex' globalization theft down, we'll be called neo-Nazis, or Nationalists, or Populists or Nativists (any label with an 'ist' on the end of it to imply "RACIST") and probably hunted down and killed by black suited Federal ninjas as if we are some variety of ISIS terrorists. H'mm ... but perhaps what we need to do is to get some black and brown citizens to begin the revolt and watch our leaders choking on their own tongues trying to figure out how to deny those that are twice victimized some measure of economic justice. Finally, this stinks of the same kind of 1% only care about the short term ignorance that brought us the 2008 crash. I'll bet my tiny bank account that German companies find ways to not outsource critical jobs like accounting to India and other 3rd world nations where lying and corruption are "part of a diverse culture" and the fundamental reason why these places were poverty stricken hell holes in the first place.
12
Another useless article. Sure they misused the H1B visa and should be penalized for it. But they could have hired an american company or just used an internal employee to write the training manuals. The jobs were still going to be outsourced. You want to keep American jobs here, then require companies to put employees on the boards of directors like they do in Europe.
9
Individuals and businesses violating H-1B visa and temp foreign worker Green Card applications can be reported to Homeland Security,
or Labor Department or Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) on their websites or call a toll-free number. Tips and information can be reported anonymously to these agencies. All legitimate complaints and evidence will be investigated and prosecuted. So if "you know something...say something".
or Labor Department or Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE) on their websites or call a toll-free number. Tips and information can be reported anonymously to these agencies. All legitimate complaints and evidence will be investigated and prosecuted. So if "you know something...say something".
6
Allison, the problem is that these companies are within the law, and have figured ways to exploit the current H1-B program. Its up to the us and our government to change this. Otherwise the Corporations will continue to do this to line their pockets while at the complete detriment of America as we know it.
Remember that these outsourcing companies are abusing other forms of visas to sneak foreign workers in for the same sleazy purposes described in this article, per an earlier exposè in the Times.
Just like I did with Burger King when they moved their operations to Canada to avoid US taxes, I will be taking any business I did with ToysRUs elsewhere. I will be telling everyone I can about this story and why ToysRUs should be shunned by American citizens. Outsourcing and off-shoring are killing the middle class in this country. It is way past "enough is enough".
4
Immigration and temporary work permits drive down American wages the same as outsourcing and offshoring.
Immigration also comes at a cost to our national unity and shared identity and culture. Too much immigration too fast fractures the common identity of the nation. Balkanization is a real problem -- look at the most successful societies in the world vs. the most troubled.
However, cheap labor helps keep other jobs within the U.S. -- there is a multiplier effect. What is the solution? All I can think of is a concerted effort to promote trade labor training so young people who command cheap wages can get into the workforce quickly and with valuable skills.
Immigration also comes at a cost to our national unity and shared identity and culture. Too much immigration too fast fractures the common identity of the nation. Balkanization is a real problem -- look at the most successful societies in the world vs. the most troubled.
However, cheap labor helps keep other jobs within the U.S. -- there is a multiplier effect. What is the solution? All I can think of is a concerted effort to promote trade labor training so young people who command cheap wages can get into the workforce quickly and with valuable skills.
2
Next I'd like to see a follow-up story about the complete disintegration of quality work and product in this country. All these transferred jobs to foreign outsourcing giants may reduce cost, but at what price to quality? I'm not impressed with what my company's IT department delivers - it's total amateur hour with basic system development these days. Short term thinking has never worked. In the end these companies will pay more to fix the mess they created. And how do they expect sales to increase when they contribute to unemployment and no one can afford their product any longer!
3
I think we are targetting wrong visa. I am a HR and I know a thing about visas. In short, the tech skill shortage is true but the existing system is only encourging fraud. The H1 visa holder can easily change job and once they are in US no one would be willing to go back to their country. There are other Visas L1 which restricts a person to stick with particular company or else go back to home country this is what being used by the outsourcer. unlike H1, this visa doesn't have any limitation. no numerical limits of no. of visas can be issued and no prevailing wage restrictions. This is the visa we need to target.
"the tech skill shortage is true..."
Uh, no.. it's not true. "Inexpensive tech skill shortage.." is true.
Uh, no.. it's not true. "Inexpensive tech skill shortage.." is true.
I trained my replacements how to do my job. Which was then 'in-sourced' to India. In-sourced as the company hired employees there for my 'old' job.
4
Want to bring high paying job back to the US, vote with your wallet and avoid anything Microsoft and Google. Let these two leaders of industry know American will not stand by while they ship Silicon Valley to Mumbai.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella are all Indian nationals while Apple's Tim Cook is from Alabama
If we go by H-1B applications in 2014, Microsoft applied 3624, Google 3026 and Apple 1444. Since Apple is the same size as Microsoft and twice as big as Google, Google is hiring 4x as many foreigners and Microsoft 2x as many as Apple.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella are all Indian nationals while Apple's Tim Cook is from Alabama
If we go by H-1B applications in 2014, Microsoft applied 3624, Google 3026 and Apple 1444. Since Apple is the same size as Microsoft and twice as big as Google, Google is hiring 4x as many foreigners and Microsoft 2x as many as Apple.
5
Toys R US just made holiday shopping easier. I'll just go someplace else.
If its any consolation to the folks replaced by TCS, you shouldn't be out of work long. I have been part of MANY clean up efforts to fix the mess left by TCS. Enjoy your time off and make sure you ask for more money when Toys R Us begs you back to clean up the TCS disaster
If its any consolation to the folks replaced by TCS, you shouldn't be out of work long. I have been part of MANY clean up efforts to fix the mess left by TCS. Enjoy your time off and make sure you ask for more money when Toys R Us begs you back to clean up the TCS disaster
13
I shop at Toys R'Us but don't plan to this year as I don't support their abuse of their workers and the shipping of their jobs to foreign workers. The company should not benefit in this way.
10
According to Bruce Morrison of Connecticut who helped write the law in 1990 it was never intended to be used at it is today and just be a temporary fix. Morrison said, "You know, some jobs are going to wind up going abroad because of globalization, but the government shouldn't have its thumb on the scale, making it easier."
This is just another way of subsidizing corporations according to Milton Freidman when he said, "that the program is a benefit their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage, and to that extent, it is a subsidy."
And I might add another this is just another indictment of corporations to lobby in their interests against those of the American worker through K Street and using PAC money.
Remember when they shipped those manufacturing jobs out they told us that jobs that the H1Bs are taking now would take their place and there would be more jobs created.
This is not the case now and the American people are responding in kind as Bernie movement gains strength.
This is just another way of subsidizing corporations according to Milton Freidman when he said, "that the program is a benefit their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage, and to that extent, it is a subsidy."
And I might add another this is just another indictment of corporations to lobby in their interests against those of the American worker through K Street and using PAC money.
Remember when they shipped those manufacturing jobs out they told us that jobs that the H1Bs are taking now would take their place and there would be more jobs created.
This is not the case now and the American people are responding in kind as Bernie movement gains strength.
11
Say what you like about Henry Ford's personal beliefs, but he understood the very basic idea that his workers should be paid enough to afford the product they were building. That this country has gotten so far away from that very basic standard says nothing flattering about the people we elect to represent us in Washington or the so-called corporate leaders.
10
Shameful. This is infuriating. When is the government going to crack down on this?
5
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies. Shame on the elected politicians for allowing this to happen. They are turning thier back on Americans once they are elected!
6
Terrorism is not only fought on battle grounds or cyberspace. what these CEOs and companies are engaging is employment terrorism.
4
Perhaps a heretical thought: is this the price we pay to bring the standard of living up for the rest of the world? Our standard goes down, theirs goes up. We meet in the middle? Playing my own devil's advocate, I'd say the main problem with this Utopian idea is the unbelievable consolidation of wealth with the 1%. What would happen to everyone's standard of living if that ocean of tightly held money and assets were freed up to flow.
1
Shame on Dave Brandon (the new CEO from Michigan). Tata is nothing more than a vulture consultant picking off US jobs. Mind you this has been going on for years. My former employer (American Express) made a science out of this kind of strategy with India and the Philippines as their prime territory for moving US based accounting and call center personnel. Basically our government has enabled this outflow and continues to do so.
3
If these companies continue down this road, soon they are going to need to charter planes from India to buy their Made in China merchandise because there won't be any American able to afford their goods.
For our part, we need to be more discerning in our purchasing. I am willing to pay a few $ more for a product that does not exploit my neighbor and gives a job to someone living in my economy.
The practice of having your workers train their replacements is in extreme poor taste, borders on illegal, certainly on unethical and should come with heavy penalties.
I don't care how big a severance they give them. It's disgusting. Nothing I can do about an insurance company I don't use, but I certainly won't buy my Xmas gifts at Toy'r'us. Not this year, not ever.
For our part, we need to be more discerning in our purchasing. I am willing to pay a few $ more for a product that does not exploit my neighbor and gives a job to someone living in my economy.
The practice of having your workers train their replacements is in extreme poor taste, borders on illegal, certainly on unethical and should come with heavy penalties.
I don't care how big a severance they give them. It's disgusting. Nothing I can do about an insurance company I don't use, but I certainly won't buy my Xmas gifts at Toy'r'us. Not this year, not ever.
8
When Donald Trump builds his wall with its big beautiful door - in will walk thousands of H1B visa holders to take your white collar jobs for half the salary.
All of these corporations are only concerned about the Number
EPS, Dividends and Cash Flow guide all decisions which are short term. No company is really growing...to do that would mean there is more demand and stagnant salaries don't create demand
Raising the minimum wage would create demand and grow the economy. The rest of the supply side, voodoo trickle down nonsense is just that....a scheme to transfer income to the wealthy.
All of these corporations are only concerned about the Number
EPS, Dividends and Cash Flow guide all decisions which are short term. No company is really growing...to do that would mean there is more demand and stagnant salaries don't create demand
Raising the minimum wage would create demand and grow the economy. The rest of the supply side, voodoo trickle down nonsense is just that....a scheme to transfer income to the wealthy.
6
Being involved with tech companies in the SF Bay Area I've also seen how large corporations hire H1B & L1B software developers to fill in positions in these companies to take on work that can't be accomplished by the full time staff developers that are mostly US Citizens due to either lack of knowledge or lack of workforce.
Not only are these foreign employers helping the corporations do what they need/want to do, they are also constantly "downloading" their knowledge they bring with them to the in-house software developers that are learning from the foreigners by working with them hands-on with the knowledge of current technologies that they master. This is not be the case with the Toys R' Us accountants portrayed in this article but is definitely not always like this, at least from my experience here in SF.
Not only are these foreign employers helping the corporations do what they need/want to do, they are also constantly "downloading" their knowledge they bring with them to the in-house software developers that are learning from the foreigners by working with them hands-on with the knowledge of current technologies that they master. This is not be the case with the Toys R' Us accountants portrayed in this article but is definitely not always like this, at least from my experience here in SF.
4
Seems like the global outsourcing firms are a big part of the problem. If the H1-B seeker had to apply in a stack with other candidates, the kind of thing Toys R Us is doing could not be accomplished.
In any case, the companies themselves are clearly skirting the rules. Everyone says they want the economy to grow and to create more jobs. But then companies like this move jobs offshore to pad the wallets of shareholders and executives. What is the penalty for violating the law? Obviously not enough to be a deterrent to trying this stuff. Companies who directly replace American workers with imported foreign workers should pay stiff fines, and the executives who contrived the scheme should face criminal penalties.
As for offshoring, this practice should be heavily penalized by taxes so as to make it as unattractive as possible. The taxes so raised should be put to use retraining American workers for New Economy jobs.
In any case, the companies themselves are clearly skirting the rules. Everyone says they want the economy to grow and to create more jobs. But then companies like this move jobs offshore to pad the wallets of shareholders and executives. What is the penalty for violating the law? Obviously not enough to be a deterrent to trying this stuff. Companies who directly replace American workers with imported foreign workers should pay stiff fines, and the executives who contrived the scheme should face criminal penalties.
As for offshoring, this practice should be heavily penalized by taxes so as to make it as unattractive as possible. The taxes so raised should be put to use retraining American workers for New Economy jobs.
8
These companies are directly violating the terms of the H-1B Visa. There's nothing else to be said about it. What really needs to be noted is our lack of participation in government. Republicans have stripped down the department of labor. There is no possibility for the department of labor to analyze whether ANY business is in violation of federally mandated labor regulations, nor is it possible for immigration to do the same. If you want businesses to be held accountable, you need to contact your senators/congress members. The only way to fix greed is to build the labor movement from the ground up.
1
Almost makes you mad enough to vote for Trump
7
This is the Disney scenario on steroids. Maybe if the Congress would stop concentrating on new ways to shut down the government long enough, they could work on legislation to prevent the abuse of these visas. I don't understand those that think that unions have outlived their usefulness when there are workers out there that are being treated like this.
4
There are many ways to rebel against the corporate machine, for example: I can my own farmer's market tomatoes for the winter; I make my own toothpaste from glycerin and chalk, with essential oils like oregano and mint, as disinfectant.
There are many way to boycott the corporate masters.
There are many way to boycott the corporate masters.
3
1. bashing the h1-b program and these temporary workers are two very different issues. these workers likely did not use h visas. they probably used b or l visas.
2. indians who come into the country on h1s don't just waltz in. the process to apply for a visa is months long, tedious and isn't over when the "lottery" is won. there is the interview at the consulate to get the visa, which isn't always successful. when they enter the country, they must renew their paperwork every year or three years depending on their contracts. and they don't "just get" citizenship. most apply and wait for upwards of 15 years before they can even be permanent residents, only five years after which do they get to be citizens. without a doubt almost all of these people are decent, law abiding, eager to work hard and provide for their families.
it's amazing that the nyt, which is so eager to advocate asylum for people who essentially broke federal law to pick crops and chop meat that americans won't, turns so vicious when talking about a group of god fearing, rule following, tax paying, legal, documented immigrants who don't get, and don't expect, even a penny in government benefits or assistance. they pay into social security and medicare and should sickness or accident cause disability aren't eligible for benefit because they aren't citizens.
stories like this only contribute to the already rising tide of xenophobia. honestly, i expected better of the nyt.
2. indians who come into the country on h1s don't just waltz in. the process to apply for a visa is months long, tedious and isn't over when the "lottery" is won. there is the interview at the consulate to get the visa, which isn't always successful. when they enter the country, they must renew their paperwork every year or three years depending on their contracts. and they don't "just get" citizenship. most apply and wait for upwards of 15 years before they can even be permanent residents, only five years after which do they get to be citizens. without a doubt almost all of these people are decent, law abiding, eager to work hard and provide for their families.
it's amazing that the nyt, which is so eager to advocate asylum for people who essentially broke federal law to pick crops and chop meat that americans won't, turns so vicious when talking about a group of god fearing, rule following, tax paying, legal, documented immigrants who don't get, and don't expect, even a penny in government benefits or assistance. they pay into social security and medicare and should sickness or accident cause disability aren't eligible for benefit because they aren't citizens.
stories like this only contribute to the already rising tide of xenophobia. honestly, i expected better of the nyt.
3
If you read the article clearly you will see that the folks working for these outsourcing consulting companies aren't staying in the United States, paying taxes et al. They are having American workers train them in their jobs and then they go back to their country an execute the same job for probably less than half the cost of employing the American worker. That is the issue here, not the visas granted for fulfilling specialized tech skills.
Yes, that's exactly the point. The story is about people who go back after a month or two at the most. The fact is they do not come on h visas. Therefore, talking about the h visa program has no place in this article.
I hate to say it, because I have been an anti-union person for a long, long time, but this is why American office workers need to organize. As individuals, they stand no chance. As a negotiating team, they might.
If I were confronted with the choice of training my replacement or going on strike, I would choose the later. To me, it's a no-brainer, but people generally cannot afford to just strike, and certainly not without organized support.
Again, I hate to say it, but, isn't this where union organizers need to focus?
As a retired CIO, I was frequently confronted with offers by companies like Cognizant and Accenture (but not them specifically) to outsource our IT infrastructure, management and development staff.
As I investigated these services, it was clear to me that they were really not capable of actually accomplishing the task, but it sure sounded enticing.
I was personally satisfied that outsourcing IT was impractical, but I was pressured by various iterations of CFOs who believed otherwise. At one point, I hired a consultant who was intimate with our IT operation to definitively and independently cost out a transition to such a service detailing each system, platform and expertise required to replace what we had. The analysis rendered a cost uptick of between 4x and 9x our cost at the time.
I'm certain that if another CIO was in my place, or someone else had the CEO's ear and had an agenda to move to outsourcing, the outcome would have been different.
If I were confronted with the choice of training my replacement or going on strike, I would choose the later. To me, it's a no-brainer, but people generally cannot afford to just strike, and certainly not without organized support.
Again, I hate to say it, but, isn't this where union organizers need to focus?
As a retired CIO, I was frequently confronted with offers by companies like Cognizant and Accenture (but not them specifically) to outsource our IT infrastructure, management and development staff.
As I investigated these services, it was clear to me that they were really not capable of actually accomplishing the task, but it sure sounded enticing.
I was personally satisfied that outsourcing IT was impractical, but I was pressured by various iterations of CFOs who believed otherwise. At one point, I hired a consultant who was intimate with our IT operation to definitively and independently cost out a transition to such a service detailing each system, platform and expertise required to replace what we had. The analysis rendered a cost uptick of between 4x and 9x our cost at the time.
I'm certain that if another CIO was in my place, or someone else had the CEO's ear and had an agenda to move to outsourcing, the outcome would have been different.
8
I live near Hartford, CT in a large apartment complex. The complex is about 95% Indian. I see their corporate badges while in the elevator. It feels like I am living in India! How did so many Indians get jobs here when Americans could not?
10
While I enjoy reading the comments, those commenting would do more good if they complained to their Congress members. After all, they are the people that allow this to continue.
5
“We were asked to cooperate and show them respect and train them to do our individual job functions,” said another former accountant, 36, who had worked for the toy seller for almost 12 years. But, she recalled, “If you didn’t cooperate, you would be asked to leave.”
Like being forced to dig your own grave just prior to execution. Have they no shame?
Like being forced to dig your own grave just prior to execution. Have they no shame?
5
When a company employs thousands of Americans how much can they save by outsourcing a few hundred jobs? Why pull the rug out from families especially older workers to save so little money? The people doing this to us should lose their jobs and be fined at the very least. Some community service and humble pie.
3
Interesting points people are making, I would point out that it's not pure xenophobia here. I would classify myself as pro-immigration, but certainly against this sort of thing. Additionally, I work in research and I can say that foreign workers are absolutely vital and we are lucky to have them. (I'll also admit that I'm a bit bitter that some incredibly talented foreigners have had issues with visas, and this sort of behavior doesn't help them.)
However, when companies start outsourcing jobs in this manner it causes many of the same problems we see in the US by using 'contractors' to shield the employers from their obligations to employees. If the workers are in India, the outsourcing companies can act with even more impunity to exploit them, while American companies following the law won't be seeing these 'significant cost savings'. Therefore, I don't see this as an immigration issue as much as a general labor issue. (Can we bring back Unions please?) I want the US to import foreign talent, not exploit foreign workers.
However, when companies start outsourcing jobs in this manner it causes many of the same problems we see in the US by using 'contractors' to shield the employers from their obligations to employees. If the workers are in India, the outsourcing companies can act with even more impunity to exploit them, while American companies following the law won't be seeing these 'significant cost savings'. Therefore, I don't see this as an immigration issue as much as a general labor issue. (Can we bring back Unions please?) I want the US to import foreign talent, not exploit foreign workers.
2
A simple question to these IT outsource companies like TCS, Infosys , Wipro and Cognizant Technology . Can they disclose the diversity among it workers in US operations. They can't disclose it. They have 99% Indians in their payroll and all of them are in H1B visas only. They don't hire US citizens or any other races.This is a unwritten rule and they openly accept it.This won't happen in India. All the MNC's in India have 99 percent employees local and maybe 1 percent expat.Take CISCO or GE India operations. It has to be the same level playing field when you talk about globalization. No partiality or favoritism.
2
Outsourcing is just another drape, which covers rampant deceit everywhere we care to see closely.
Underlying deceit by the Board, top corporate executives, company shareholders who knowingly play ignorance as they play the loop holes, allowed to be sustained by elected officials who are welcome dance partners to well heeled corporations.
Will this serve as a wake up call for all who claim to be socially responsible US corporation... to buckle up and put their operations in the higher gear of truth?
... Even if truth will likely slow down corporations profit and growth trajectory??
Will the Board and Shareholders take control... in deceit enabled high-speed chase for profits... or let their companies reputation and profits crash... by a regulator pullover or a whistle blower??
Unlikely.
For, deceit rules as much of the free world... as that of the oppressed.
Underlying deceit by the Board, top corporate executives, company shareholders who knowingly play ignorance as they play the loop holes, allowed to be sustained by elected officials who are welcome dance partners to well heeled corporations.
Will this serve as a wake up call for all who claim to be socially responsible US corporation... to buckle up and put their operations in the higher gear of truth?
... Even if truth will likely slow down corporations profit and growth trajectory??
Will the Board and Shareholders take control... in deceit enabled high-speed chase for profits... or let their companies reputation and profits crash... by a regulator pullover or a whistle blower??
Unlikely.
For, deceit rules as much of the free world... as that of the oppressed.
Corporations across the US will continue to move jobs out of this country. The bottom line is always profit. As the middle class disappears and more and more US citizens decend into poverty, the Corporte bottom line will be effected. The once great US Middle Class had the real buying power to drive the US economy. The top 1% grows and grows, but they spend little of their wealth. Trickle down economics works very well, all of us in that bottom 90%, have received our drop from the great pool of wealth, our hard labor has created these last 20 years. This baby boomer never dreamed she could earn so much more annually than my father, while being able to live at only a fraction of his standard of living.
1
All I can say that is sa. Since,these were big companies so they get noticed but this is happening pretty much everywhere. First it was technology job, now accounting and admin who know whats next...
1
I came to this country looking for a job in 1972. Within one month found a job in water management for the State of California (Reagan was still Governor there) while some 2000 water engineers where fired at the California Department of Water Resources. Why? I had a Masters degree and the Americans only a Bachelor degree or less. No Einstein needed here.
4
The real danger to American jobs--and the American families those jobs support--is not posed by the undocumented immigrants currently detained and deported by the thousands who are exploited by the GOP to whip up the frenzy of its base. The most significant danger to US workers is in the board rooms and executive offices of companies that owe their existence to US infrastructure, US workers and US customers.
Every story like the Toys R US, New York Life and Disney World layoffs due to outsourcing firms should create boycotts from US customers. Save the H-1B visas for those will do the jobs US workers can't do, not for the outsourcing firms taking away US jobs.
Hint: try asking your GOP elected officials or candidates their position(s) on the abuse of H-1B visas by outsourcing firms if you want a dose of pure baloney.
Every story like the Toys R US, New York Life and Disney World layoffs due to outsourcing firms should create boycotts from US customers. Save the H-1B visas for those will do the jobs US workers can't do, not for the outsourcing firms taking away US jobs.
Hint: try asking your GOP elected officials or candidates their position(s) on the abuse of H-1B visas by outsourcing firms if you want a dose of pure baloney.
7
American corporations, their boards of directors and their executives have no loyalty to their country. They've become "multi-national" in their focus and flagrantly skirt if not completely violate regulations that they deem will hurt their bottom line. And they have the gall to lobby the national and state governments for all sorts of benefits, no matter the impact on the people of the nation or states. I completely enraged by their behavior. They are simply despicable!
9
Consumers have a choice just like Toys r Us, Disney, NY Life and others like them have a choice.
These companies choose meager earning increases vs. good corporate citizenship and we the consumers should now choose not to buy from them, not to watch or purchase their movies and related items and get insurance from other companies.
Shop local, buy educational toys, watch other movies and buy insurance from companies who reinvest here in America.
These companies choose meager earning increases vs. good corporate citizenship and we the consumers should now choose not to buy from them, not to watch or purchase their movies and related items and get insurance from other companies.
Shop local, buy educational toys, watch other movies and buy insurance from companies who reinvest here in America.
8
I'd pay close attention to executive bonuses at Toys R us
11
toys r us not american and not patriots. i will refuse to buy toys are us. without unions all workers in this country are in trouble. american workers should be put before investors!
11
It is about time that H -1 B visas were discontinued. If high tech workers are needed, require the Apples and Facebooks of this word to train American youth and Americans in IT who have been laid off. They are profiting greatly and it's high time that they invested in the United States. Companies such as Toys R Us should not ever be issued H -1 B visas in any case. But the best idea, would be to end the program completely.
21
Apple is still designed and engineered in California and commitment to remain in the US with the giant new headquarter under construction in Cupertino, CA.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella are all Indian nationals so you know where they stand.
If we go by H-1B applications in 2014, Microsoft applied 3624, Google 3026 and Apple 1444.
Google CEO Sundar Pichai and Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella are all Indian nationals so you know where they stand.
If we go by H-1B applications in 2014, Microsoft applied 3624, Google 3026 and Apple 1444.
Elizabeth Warren... Bernie Sanders... can you please weigh in here?
14
And for that matter, Fox News - isn't this the kind of "Keep Your Hands Off Our Country" thing they could glom onto? Oh wait, but it's good for shareholders. Never mind.
I'm ashamed to be a New York Life insurance holder. And Toy R Us won't see me this Christmas or for any purchase. It's time American citizens stood up and fought for our country in the market place!
11
You need to Boycott them all, not wait until they are caught red handed. A spending strike and an actual strike might be the only thing that would work to stop this trend.
1
I will not purchase anything from toys-r-us or New York life insurance
15
The New York Times seems to have awakened from a deep slumber. This has been going on for 15 years. This is the classic outsourcing model. Indian consulting firms bring people to the U.S. company to learn and package the work that is then shipped overseas. Good morning New York Times ! Welcome to the year 2015.
10
Take your toy stores with you Ms. Waugh.
11
Ms Waugh does not want to pay those workers enough to buy the toys she sells. That isn't a sustainable business model.
3
And for baby stores, too.
1
How about this? For every job sent off shore the executive counsel of the company must cut their pay by that amount. We'll see how fast these shenanigans come to an end.Better still punt an end to these ridiculous and highly abused H-1B and L-1B scams. The only purpose left for these two programs is to suppress wages in this country for the every day worker while enriching the 1%. Like they really need more millions.
24
There should be a way to devise tax penalties for companies that rplace American workers with foreign workers, whether the replacement workers come here through H-1B or the jobs are sent overseas.
20
It's not like when we brought in Werner Von Braun to build rockets for us (or be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust). You cannot possibly tell me that there are no Americans who can build a "sexting or selfie app." And even if there are not, who cares? I think we can live without it. And to say that a 55 year old cannot train on a new piece of software is absolutely ridiculous. I have been boycotting corporate america for a long time now. I hope others will wake up and do the same.
Between all the data breaches and outsourcing, I think it is time to declare the Internet a disaster for all mankind but especially for this country.
Between all the data breaches and outsourcing, I think it is time to declare the Internet a disaster for all mankind but especially for this country.
13
Will not ever again purchase any item whatsoever from Toys R Us. The holiday season is quickly approaching, and we should all start posting on the internet to send a message to this company and others.
23
Americans want strong immigration control.
Control includes firm annual limits on numbers of immigrants,
counting all categories, whether permanent or temporary,
whether work-based or family-based or humanitarian-based.
No open-ended categories.
Control also means strong enforcement.
The H-1B cap (85,000) should not be be increased.
The L-1B category ought to have a cap -- a small fixed cap --
-- 20,000 per year ought to be plenty.
The annual caps ought to cover "dependents":
one spouse and only kids under age 18,
and no work authorization for the spouse and kids
unless they independently meet the visa requirements,
and, if they do, they get counted against the annual cap.
The employer must provide full health insurance -- federal worker level.
No federal or state or local welfare.
Fixed period of stay.
Employer guarantees departure at end of fixed period of stay.
Guarantee secured by up-front cash bond paid in advance to U.S. Treasury,
$100,000 per person (counting worker and each dependent),
repayable only after departure at end of fixed term.
The H-1B category also needs to guarantee job to any American
meeting advertised job qualifications.
Advertised job qualifications ought not include salary:
If one American meets the advertised job qualifications,
then he/she must be hired, regardless the salary/wage he/she asks.
If two or more Americans meet the advertised job qualifications,
then, and only then, employer can bargain with them for the lowest salary/wage.
Control includes firm annual limits on numbers of immigrants,
counting all categories, whether permanent or temporary,
whether work-based or family-based or humanitarian-based.
No open-ended categories.
Control also means strong enforcement.
The H-1B cap (85,000) should not be be increased.
The L-1B category ought to have a cap -- a small fixed cap --
-- 20,000 per year ought to be plenty.
The annual caps ought to cover "dependents":
one spouse and only kids under age 18,
and no work authorization for the spouse and kids
unless they independently meet the visa requirements,
and, if they do, they get counted against the annual cap.
The employer must provide full health insurance -- federal worker level.
No federal or state or local welfare.
Fixed period of stay.
Employer guarantees departure at end of fixed period of stay.
Guarantee secured by up-front cash bond paid in advance to U.S. Treasury,
$100,000 per person (counting worker and each dependent),
repayable only after departure at end of fixed term.
The H-1B category also needs to guarantee job to any American
meeting advertised job qualifications.
Advertised job qualifications ought not include salary:
If one American meets the advertised job qualifications,
then he/she must be hired, regardless the salary/wage he/she asks.
If two or more Americans meet the advertised job qualifications,
then, and only then, employer can bargain with them for the lowest salary/wage.
8
The only positions that qualifying for H-1B or L-1B should be executive ones. You know, the positions held by the 1%. As was said once before "Let them eat cake."
2
Remember, remember the 5th of November...
The last time I shopped in ToysRUs, about 3 weeks ago, a man wearing an ID lanyard approached me and tried to sell me cosmetics and hair items. He had a great line in being with the store, and one-day special deals, etc - I asked him where to pay for these items, and he had a cellphone with a card swipe gadget on it, that made me suspicious. I went to customer service and found out that he was not affiliated with the store, but was using it to find customers in a buying mood - and that security kept escorting him out. So - it seems that ToyRUs is not just using the system, but also getting used itself, only one of these uses is still "legal." After this article, I am no longer a ToysRUs customer.
3
Outsource some CEOs, Company can save 10s/100s of millions dollars and save tens of thousands of jobs. Greedy CEOs save their fat salary and fire 1000s of employees in teh name of outsourcing.
STOP H1b. L1, B1 visas for IT for the next several years. Too many are already here looking for minimum wage jobs.
STOP H1b. L1, B1 visas for IT for the next several years. Too many are already here looking for minimum wage jobs.
14
This is a bigger scandal than the Volkswagen diesel EPA test deception!
11
Look for Toys R Us and other such "American" companies to go belly up within a generation. With no jobs, few people will start families and even less will be able to afford expensive Chinese toys from TRU or anywhere else. The question these financial wizzard CEOs fail to ask is: Will the newly affluent (by Indian and Chinese standards) 3rd world consumers actually buy enough Toys-Are-Beings-Us products to keep TRU in business?
8
I agree with many that this long-term problem. During the 1980s my teacher friend had to train a cheaper teacher from Spain. I'm conflicted about this, having held both union and non-union teaching therapy positions over the years.
It's wrong to replace U.S. workers with cheaper labor to benefit the bottom line. However, having watched this for over 20 yrs., I can't help but wonder if we as a society have created this problem ourselves. It's true that full-time workers need a living wage (working two + jobs burns you out physically and mentally rapidly). However, unions have contributed to wage inflation that, I'm sure, has driven employers to find cheaper labor options. That's what they do. When minimally educated individuals who perform low-skill jobs or those that require minimal education make wages equal to or above those of folks who've spent 4-8 yrs. in college something's wrong and I can't blame employers for trying to outsmart the system. I'm not saying that low-skill jobs aren't important, simply that the cost to employers for unionized low-skill positions exceeds the payout to employers in wages and benefits.
Skilled jobs is a whole other thing. U.S. and foreign young workers have been sold a bill of goods about their worth. In my and my daughter's (journalism) day you worked your way up from the bottom (yes, even cleaning toilets). Perhaps it's time for our workers to accept a little less to entice employers away from the allure of cheap foreign labor, hmmm??
It's wrong to replace U.S. workers with cheaper labor to benefit the bottom line. However, having watched this for over 20 yrs., I can't help but wonder if we as a society have created this problem ourselves. It's true that full-time workers need a living wage (working two + jobs burns you out physically and mentally rapidly). However, unions have contributed to wage inflation that, I'm sure, has driven employers to find cheaper labor options. That's what they do. When minimally educated individuals who perform low-skill jobs or those that require minimal education make wages equal to or above those of folks who've spent 4-8 yrs. in college something's wrong and I can't blame employers for trying to outsmart the system. I'm not saying that low-skill jobs aren't important, simply that the cost to employers for unionized low-skill positions exceeds the payout to employers in wages and benefits.
Skilled jobs is a whole other thing. U.S. and foreign young workers have been sold a bill of goods about their worth. In my and my daughter's (journalism) day you worked your way up from the bottom (yes, even cleaning toilets). Perhaps it's time for our workers to accept a little less to entice employers away from the allure of cheap foreign labor, hmmm??
2
You may be referencing the auto unions of old . ....when car manufacturers were held hostage to powerful unions. We have only to look to Detroit now to know how that worked out . Unions are the only thing between the greed and avarice of capitalism run amok and the average American being able to improve his lot in the working world . This corporate greed is what drives our immigration crisis . ....big business is rewarded by cheap labor of immigrants because they - BIG business - can create the "union as boogeyman " keeping us believing unions make unrealistic demands. Asking for a living wage is not unrealistic . In fact one can chart the rise of corporate profits with the weakening of union influence. Conversely , the rise of the middle class in the 50s and 60s can be attributed to union membership .
And this is why people should hope for Trump as president. He is the only one in Washington not in someone's picket. When a big company or foreign government donates to a candidate's campaign fund, what do you think they are after? Helping our democratic practices? They are hoping whoever got elected help them rape and pillage the American working class. Trump may be outspoken and a bit wacky but he do things out of a sense of duty, not because his handlers tells him to. If you find his tirade against illegals offensive, you have been brainwashed for too long.
BTW, guess who is Accenture? Accenture is (Arthur) Andersen Consulting, the same Arthur Andersen in the Enron scandal.
BTW, guess who is Accenture? Accenture is (Arthur) Andersen Consulting, the same Arthur Andersen in the Enron scandal.
6
This is vile.
But it's not all that different from the outsourcing by importing the cheap foreign labor that goes on in companies that use a lot of low/no-skilled labor. Former Rep. Tom Tancredo, once the foremost exponent of reducing immigration numbers on Capitol Hill, once told me that two fast food execs tried to buy him off of the issue, telling him they'd keep his campaign coffers full if he'd shut up about immigration. He wasn't for sale.
The Koch brothers also like the cheap labor, and were major supporters of S744, the old senate immigration bill, which would have tripled legal immigration.
But it's not all that different from the outsourcing by importing the cheap foreign labor that goes on in companies that use a lot of low/no-skilled labor. Former Rep. Tom Tancredo, once the foremost exponent of reducing immigration numbers on Capitol Hill, once told me that two fast food execs tried to buy him off of the issue, telling him they'd keep his campaign coffers full if he'd shut up about immigration. He wasn't for sale.
The Koch brothers also like the cheap labor, and were major supporters of S744, the old senate immigration bill, which would have tripled legal immigration.
10
Look. Both Democrats and Republicans supported SB744.
Tell me once again why unions (who could effectively challenge this disaster) are bad. The net effect of this will be to bring down this country.
29
I once worked for a publishing company as a graphic designer. There was a union in place, but the union didn't stop upper management, after years of consolidation with other publishers and declining revenues, from exporting what was left of pre-press. It all went to the Philippines and a small team of 'interpreters' were put in place to act as go-betweens for the sales force and the foreign workers. I recently heard that they laid off that group and now make the salespeople, who still have union representation, work from home. Unions won't save workers if management chooses to use their healthcare as a means to extract agreements for ever more force reductions, wage reductions, workload increases and so forth. Am I surprised about the abuse of the work permit visas by companies? No - their C-level managers have plenty of lawyers to help them sidestep the law and take advantage of the loopholes, always to the detriment of the people who work for them. Unless you own the company, you can assume that no one above you has your back or cares about you. You're a means to an end, union or no union and if they want you gone, they'll find a way to do it, one way or another.
3
Toys R Us is owned by a hedge fund that will pay little to no taxes (depending on who is next president) when they cash out in an IPO.
Run by a new CEO whose stands to make as much as $50 million dollars between now and 2018.
The system is broken!
And people wonder why Trump is popular?
Run by a new CEO whose stands to make as much as $50 million dollars between now and 2018.
The system is broken!
And people wonder why Trump is popular?
20
@john
"The system is broken!
And people wonder why Trump is popular?"
Trump is part of the system and uses it to enrich himself. Bernie Sanders is the genuine article.
"The system is broken!
And people wonder why Trump is popular?"
Trump is part of the system and uses it to enrich himself. Bernie Sanders is the genuine article.
18
@mancuroc
That's where you are wrong. Sanders is an outsiders. He is no match for the interest groups in Washington. Having him in Whitehouse will just be like having Carter or Obama... well meaning but powerless to do anything.
Who we need are fighters like Teddy Roosevelt and Trump. Willing to bump heads and fight dirty against interest groups. We don't need a "good, kind, saints like" president, we need someone that can get the job done.
That's where you are wrong. Sanders is an outsiders. He is no match for the interest groups in Washington. Having him in Whitehouse will just be like having Carter or Obama... well meaning but powerless to do anything.
Who we need are fighters like Teddy Roosevelt and Trump. Willing to bump heads and fight dirty against interest groups. We don't need a "good, kind, saints like" president, we need someone that can get the job done.
HB-1 visas serve a purpose, but are abused. They've got powerful champions in Silicon Valley, who consider HB-1 sacrosanct, and label critics xenophobes. There's a missing voice, organized labor. Globalization's impacts are not inevitable, or the same everywhere. Germany has strong unions, and is an net exporter. If accountants were unionized, they would not be training their outsourced replacements.
21
Their purpose is to be abused.
2
I'm wondering what I would do if faced with a job change that required me to train someone else to do my job. I would hope that I would have the courage to communicate to my employer that my inherent value as a worker is tied to my knowledge and experience and not just sitting in front of a computer for 8 hours a day performing a task. And, that the value of "downloading" my knowledge and experience to another is a transfer of my intellectual property, literally. It is the sum of my education, background, intellect, and experience. That transfer would require a substantial increase in payment to me to offset the loss of future income for providing that download. The promise of a severance is nowhere near enough. I think the hard lesson to remember is that we are worth more than we think. I hope that I would have the courage to walk away.
27
U.S. corporations are obsessed by labor costs and taxes. Following the lead of industry "geniuses" like Steve Jobs, they move not only their work, but their entire supply chains elsewhere, ruining American manufacturing and the American middle class with it.
The middle class buys their products, so they then tell stories of needing to "expand their global market" to find those few remaining customers who can throw money away on their stuff. In the U.S., they move from customer ownership to leasing and service contracts and indenture their customers rather than selling to them. And they always, always, always contend that older more experienced workers, claiming as New York Life does that younger less expensive workers are better able to train.
Oh, and then the claim that they will be hiring Americans more than they had. But the new Americans will be lower skill, lower experience working at usually sales jobs. Workers in polo shirts at the Apple store while the tech workers in IT and R&D or the accountants in the back office were what was let go. And if that doesn't produce enough mansions and private jets, reincorporate with a double Irish with a Dutch sandwich.
Welcome to the real globalization and the real H-1B story. Innovation will produce new and better jobs we can re-train to take? Not in American capitalism. It's against the religion of zero for wages, zero for taxes. Why do we think the human traffickers are the only ones who want to make money on slavery?
The middle class buys their products, so they then tell stories of needing to "expand their global market" to find those few remaining customers who can throw money away on their stuff. In the U.S., they move from customer ownership to leasing and service contracts and indenture their customers rather than selling to them. And they always, always, always contend that older more experienced workers, claiming as New York Life does that younger less expensive workers are better able to train.
Oh, and then the claim that they will be hiring Americans more than they had. But the new Americans will be lower skill, lower experience working at usually sales jobs. Workers in polo shirts at the Apple store while the tech workers in IT and R&D or the accountants in the back office were what was let go. And if that doesn't produce enough mansions and private jets, reincorporate with a double Irish with a Dutch sandwich.
Welcome to the real globalization and the real H-1B story. Innovation will produce new and better jobs we can re-train to take? Not in American capitalism. It's against the religion of zero for wages, zero for taxes. Why do we think the human traffickers are the only ones who want to make money on slavery?
9
The silver lining to this unfortunate situation is that law firms are also exporting their jobs to India. The Indian firms now do the searches for legal precedents, etc. that formerly were done by US rookie lawyers in big law firms. Exporting ambulance chaser jobs is not all bad. The USA already has a huge excess of people whose job is to sue others for a share of the torte, none of which produces ANY net wealth (value added effort) for the nation.
The lawyers will look after themselves thru Congress & the Lobby system. The rest of us can just pound salt.
The lawyers will look after themselves thru Congress & the Lobby system. The rest of us can just pound salt.
1
Well I for one will be supporting the local mom and pop toy stores this Holiday season. My dollar may not go as far but at least my money will stay in the community.
7
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
Force those companies hiring H1b to pay a 50K/year fee to a fund, Dont replace Americans. This will force them to find America workers in no time. Also, Vote out politicians like Chuck Schumer who are introducing bill to tripe H1b visa quota. He has NO CLUE what is going on.
Force those companies hiring H1b to pay a 50K/year fee to a fund, Dont replace Americans. This will force them to find America workers in no time. Also, Vote out politicians like Chuck Schumer who are introducing bill to tripe H1b visa quota. He has NO CLUE what is going on.
12
I'm almost fairly certain that the NYT have their facts wrong on this one. Temporary Worker visas aren't handed out willy nilly and given that 5 times as many people apply for them than the cap, these people weren't brought into the country on an H1B. When the likes of Google and Facebook can't get more than half their H1B applications through, I doubt Toys R Us could.
An H1B is for a permanent job in America, for which you have to go through labouriously bureaucratic which determines if the worker is paid above market rate. These workers weren't displaced by H1Bs for certain and The journalist is misconstruing temporary worker visas with whatever these guys were brought in on.
An H1B is for a permanent job in America, for which you have to go through labouriously bureaucratic which determines if the worker is paid above market rate. These workers weren't displaced by H1Bs for certain and The journalist is misconstruing temporary worker visas with whatever these guys were brought in on.
Yeah but the contractors have whole departments handling the visa requirements for this. Mom and Pop can't work the system but the legal departments have been developed to do just that at the Indian outsourcers.
That, and lots of campaign contributions.
That, and lots of campaign contributions.
9
I can tell you a story about the one time this bit the management in the but.
This was in the late 90's when management decided they wanted to replace the network guy with a contractor. Same spiel, train him if you want severance.
Well, the unexpected happened, the guy told them to pound sand
and quit instead. Got front row seats to management looking stunned
and saying "you can't do that, we need you ..."
The problem is, the network guy did a lot of stuff there, including running various critical jobs that kept things flowing. Without him, things started
to quickly get bogged down, displeasing a lot of people to say the least.
Well, after a few days of chaos he did come back, with a contract, a much higher rate, and a promise to not try that crap with him again. I'm guessing the manager that proposed the "cost saving measure" did not get his bonus.
The lesson I learned was to NOT ever allow myself to live so hand to mouth that I have no choice but to cave in to demands I consider unreasonable.
I humbly suggest that if you experience something like this you do what was at one time essentially unthinkable for a tech guy, you create a union to regain some power, because few of us are indispensable,
This was in the late 90's when management decided they wanted to replace the network guy with a contractor. Same spiel, train him if you want severance.
Well, the unexpected happened, the guy told them to pound sand
and quit instead. Got front row seats to management looking stunned
and saying "you can't do that, we need you ..."
The problem is, the network guy did a lot of stuff there, including running various critical jobs that kept things flowing. Without him, things started
to quickly get bogged down, displeasing a lot of people to say the least.
Well, after a few days of chaos he did come back, with a contract, a much higher rate, and a promise to not try that crap with him again. I'm guessing the manager that proposed the "cost saving measure" did not get his bonus.
The lesson I learned was to NOT ever allow myself to live so hand to mouth that I have no choice but to cave in to demands I consider unreasonable.
I humbly suggest that if you experience something like this you do what was at one time essentially unthinkable for a tech guy, you create a union to regain some power, because few of us are indispensable,
23
The majority of H1B Visa engineers hired by American tech companies are average to less than average in their skill level. Many come from 2nd tier technical Universities, particularly in India, that were just established, and not ready to teach well.
I've had to work with H1B engineers that only knew how to work in the windows environment. Our products work on Macs and Linux too, and the engineers rarely know those environments. Even simple things like listing files and changing directories (via Linux command line).
The upside to this is that there is a lot of coding that is repetitive and boring. Jobs like testing and maintaining existing software products are not that attractive.
In Silicon Valley proper, it's rare to see people replaced directly by H1B engineers, the companies hire them in as positions become available.
Req's for hiring are created throughout the year, but then "frozen" until the H1B visas are handed out at the beginning of the year.
HR Recruiting is instructed to select the resumes of H1B candidates first; so managers may not even see resumes from US workers that have been submitted for their open position.
I've had to work with H1B engineers that only knew how to work in the windows environment. Our products work on Macs and Linux too, and the engineers rarely know those environments. Even simple things like listing files and changing directories (via Linux command line).
The upside to this is that there is a lot of coding that is repetitive and boring. Jobs like testing and maintaining existing software products are not that attractive.
In Silicon Valley proper, it's rare to see people replaced directly by H1B engineers, the companies hire them in as positions become available.
Req's for hiring are created throughout the year, but then "frozen" until the H1B visas are handed out at the beginning of the year.
HR Recruiting is instructed to select the resumes of H1B candidates first; so managers may not even see resumes from US workers that have been submitted for their open position.
17
This is disgusting, although not at all surprising. There should be a list of companies engaging in these practices so that customers can make informed decisions about where to spend our money. Toys r Us is definitely off my list.
18
What a perversion of the intent of the H1-B Visa program!
Buy Congress, instead of fixing the problem, is mesmerized by phony baby parts and repealing Obamacare.
Buy Congress, instead of fixing the problem, is mesmerized by phony baby parts and repealing Obamacare.
19
Should we start importing CEO's, too from oversees too?
13
Google and Microsoft already done that. They can pay Indian managers lower salary I guess.
It is ironic that the forces of cash and influence that support a platform that advocates an end to the exportation of jobs overseas is exploiting a program intended to protect those very jobs.
"When Congress designed temporary work visa programs, the idea was to bring in foreigners with specialized, hard-to-find skills who would help American companies grow, creating jobs to expand the economy."
Really?
Really?
6
H1-B needs to be amended or abolished altogether. I doubt there is anything of value for the American public in this legislation.
7
A similar situation happened in Canada a couple of years ago where banks, and fast food companies were abusing a similar program that they Canadian government has in place. It only came out after an IT worker at the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC) went to the media to complain that he was asked to train a foreign worker who was brought from India to replace him. Some corporations tried to make the argument that they could not find workers to fill positions in the fast food industry and that is why they had to bring them from abroad. The irony of this situation and the hypocrisy shown by companies who abuse this program is that if the government attempt to legislate an increase in the minimum wage they cry to the high heavens protesting that the government should not interfere with the market. However, the corporations have no problem abusing a program that is in place for legitimate cases as a way to artificially keep wages down by bringing people from outside the country. I hope the U.S. government tackles this issue to protect the American worker.
10
You left off the part where the Canadian government apologized for that. Actually apologized. Wow.
So let's repeat the Republican mantra AGAIN, these are the job creators, we need to cut taxes, give them all the protections, listen to their lobbyists, corporations are people too, because they create jobs. Just not in this country.
9
Just be careful labeling this a partisan issue. Egregious abuse of these visas has been going on for a couple decades give or take under every combination of party control
The H-1B has been used for decades to lower the salary of Engineers. Now it's being used to lower the salary of Accounts. It will never stop until it's used to lower the wages of Lawyers.
12
too late, it already is.
1
If this is meant to control costs, why are we not getting cut-rate prices for insurance, toys, etc.?
This part of the accounting is where the whole story breaks down.
This part of the accounting is where the whole story breaks down.
4
The controlled costs go to top management and the stockholders.
2
You are a bunch of old fogeys
who think in terms of nations and peoples.
There are no nations.
There are no peoples.
There are no Russians.
There are no Arabs.
There are no Third Worids.
There is no West.
There is only one holistic system
of systems.
One vast and immane,
interwoven, interacting,
multivariate, multinational
dominion of dollars.
Praise be!
who think in terms of nations and peoples.
There are no nations.
There are no peoples.
There are no Russians.
There are no Arabs.
There are no Third Worids.
There is no West.
There is only one holistic system
of systems.
One vast and immane,
interwoven, interacting,
multivariate, multinational
dominion of dollars.
Praise be!
2
You might at least have mentioned Paddy Chayefsky as the author of those immortal words.
7
This is not new, scratch the surface of any lay off in the last ten years and you'll find that American engineers (especially the older ones with plenty of experience) are drummed out, replaced by Indians and then hired back as contractors without benefits. Just as in many factories, full time employees are replaced with contract workers (often illegal migrants) who are supplied by a third party to reduce company liability. I know of one company just down the road in Wayne that hires hundred of workers weekly. They are bused in, their wages are paid to their handlers and workers have to pay fees for the opportunity to work and for transportation. They end up making less than minimum wage and have little or no protection, should they be hurt on the job. Of course, the NYT does not cover these stories, they are too busy writing editorials that say we should welcome all comers, while ignoring how these policies have decimated the middle class. This is a blip in NYT reportage, tomorrow there will be a picture of some pour woman, clutching her child and calls for blanket amnesty for all illegals and anyone who reaches the shores of Europe. Last week, the editorial board ran an article citing a study that said, immigrants add to the European economy, quoting a study, done between 2001 and 2010, that only examined migrants from within Europe. Comparing these migrants to the current crop of poorly educated Muslims is disingenuous.
16
Probably why 71 percent of Americans are unhappy. They know 1. They are being lie to, and 2. Globalization is a fraud to make big corporations richer and is at the heart of terrorism and waves of migrants.
3
I was with you until you turned to the foreign workers and immigrants as the cause. These people want to feed their families just as much as we do. The blame lies with the business who hire these people. The workers take the jobs that are offered. The workers are "taking" jobs that the companies are offering/giving them. The anger needs to be directed at the businesses, their lobbyists, and our representatives in government.
3
I have not seen any articles from NY times regarding how many colored people who are US citizens, are actually getting a chance to work in reputed US companies in US as permanent employees. Everybody knows and it is a kind of universal truth that colored people hardly get a chance and if they get and found working their life at work place would be a kind of torture. 1. Who introduced all different kinds of Visas such as H1B, L1B etc. in US? 2. Who is cutting the deal with Indian outsourcing companies so that jobs can be shifted to India? 3. Who is getting benefited by getting the same job done somewhere at very low price by knowing very well that they are compromising on quality? 4. Why US corporations are choosing India over other countries for out sourcing? Indians may not be that intelligent when compared to US citizens but still they are able to pick up the tasks and meeting the requirements of the clients for the lowest possible price in the world. Are they committing any sin by doing this? 5. By outsourcing, they are trying to maintain the population at US because creation of jobs always has one to one correlation with procreation. On top of that land is not polluted, no stress on very important natural resources and also it is a wonderful opportunity to focus their attention to develop new technologies rather than keep doing same assembly line type of jobs which can be done through less educated, less skilled/talented people somewhere else in the world.
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
6
This has been going on since the H1-B program was created, and people have been screaming from the rooftops about it, with nobody listening outside of the tech press. I'm glad somebody in the mainstream press is starting to listen.
10
You're kidding! There's no way this should be news to you. I worked for a company 9 years ago, that brought Indians to the Philadelphia area with the expressed purposed of taking the Jobs back to India after they were trained. The employees in Philadelphia had to train the employees in order to receive their enhanced severance packages. But I guess if Wyeth and Accenture are involved it couldn't have been a bad thing. Hope you're enjoying your lower cost Advil.
7
Try to find a job in Mexifornia if you are white, black or Asian. Our government refuses to enforce the laws of the nation. There aren't enough jobs for Americans. we don't need any more immigrants in this country, legal or illegal. If the government won't do it then the citizens must. Do not patronize stores that do not hire more than one race of people. And do not be afraid to tell the manager why you are unhappy.
8
"“If employers are able to hire the key people, they can keep jobs in the U.S. and create new jobs here,” said Lynn Shotwell, executive director of the Council for Global Immigration."
Orwell would be proud of this New Speak. It's like the famous Mi Lai incident in Viet Nam. "We had to kill them to save them."
When, oh, when, are the blue collar and even white collar Americans voting for Republicans going to understand that they are being "had" and that Obama is not going to take their guns?
Orwell would be proud of this New Speak. It's like the famous Mi Lai incident in Viet Nam. "We had to kill them to save them."
When, oh, when, are the blue collar and even white collar Americans voting for Republicans going to understand that they are being "had" and that Obama is not going to take their guns?
9
but Obama is pro H1B visa too. Neither party is going to provide the assitance they are looking for. It just will not bring in the campaign contributions.
2
I have a similar but inverse experience.
Most of my contracts are short term, the bait being an extension and when the employer is desperate, perhaps even hint at an FTE position. My job is often to teach and coach key staff how to script in various flavors of SQL, data modelling, use business intelligence tools and directly and indirectly, about thought process and how to think and concentrate on the objective rather than play office politics. Many I.T. shops have replaced professionalism and STEM-skill with machiavellian politics, in the process pushing out skilled people.
By the time they take ownership of the codes and learned how to think, they have developed a pack mentality in getting rid of the person who is teaching them, perceived as a threat to their promotion.
The usual blatant accusation is that the contractor does not get along with the other people. In another instance, I was falsely accused by human resource of introducing a virus that brought down their network.
There is one instance when, after I was gone, their key staff couldn't do even the most basic maintenance on otherwise well structured and documented codes.
Most of my contracts are short term, the bait being an extension and when the employer is desperate, perhaps even hint at an FTE position. My job is often to teach and coach key staff how to script in various flavors of SQL, data modelling, use business intelligence tools and directly and indirectly, about thought process and how to think and concentrate on the objective rather than play office politics. Many I.T. shops have replaced professionalism and STEM-skill with machiavellian politics, in the process pushing out skilled people.
By the time they take ownership of the codes and learned how to think, they have developed a pack mentality in getting rid of the person who is teaching them, perceived as a threat to their promotion.
The usual blatant accusation is that the contractor does not get along with the other people. In another instance, I was falsely accused by human resource of introducing a virus that brought down their network.
There is one instance when, after I was gone, their key staff couldn't do even the most basic maintenance on otherwise well structured and documented codes.
8
The point I am trying to make is, when office politics replaces STEM-skill and professionalism, then who is going to do the job? Your only alternative is to outsource or get the next lot of contractors in from wherever.
I notice many of the commenters saying: "This is globalism. Get used to it." The reality is, however, this (the practices in this article) is what the rules now say can be done. We could write a new rule today and place it in the Federal Register that says you can't export these jobs to India and that would be the end of it.
For over twenty years (NAFTA became law in 1993) Americans have stood idly by while our leaders have given our jobs, our technology, our market share and our sovereignty away to foreign concerns. SOME American companies and shareholders have profited greatly from this. But our anemic growth and our obvious decline, especially in terms of the middle and working classes has been the outcome. Our loss of production capacity will hinder us when we are threatened. We are not nearly as powerful as a nation as we were twenty, thirty years ago and we have simply lost the status as "The land of opportunity" we once had.
The practices described in this article are just another example of the ongoing "milking out" of America. Of the transferral of equity and of the ever more powerful takings by the one percenter's from the rest of us. It comes as no surprise and I welcome it - because the sooner the guy next to me loses his job to free trade too, the sooner the majority of Americans will realize what a farcical bill of goods they've been sold and we can vote to simply change the rules back to being protective of our own country, markets, and people.
For over twenty years (NAFTA became law in 1993) Americans have stood idly by while our leaders have given our jobs, our technology, our market share and our sovereignty away to foreign concerns. SOME American companies and shareholders have profited greatly from this. But our anemic growth and our obvious decline, especially in terms of the middle and working classes has been the outcome. Our loss of production capacity will hinder us when we are threatened. We are not nearly as powerful as a nation as we were twenty, thirty years ago and we have simply lost the status as "The land of opportunity" we once had.
The practices described in this article are just another example of the ongoing "milking out" of America. Of the transferral of equity and of the ever more powerful takings by the one percenter's from the rest of us. It comes as no surprise and I welcome it - because the sooner the guy next to me loses his job to free trade too, the sooner the majority of Americans will realize what a farcical bill of goods they've been sold and we can vote to simply change the rules back to being protective of our own country, markets, and people.
12
Companies will always find ways through and around the rules. As long as we sit on our couches and think there's nothing we can do, this will continue.
1
Thank you NYT's. This has been going on since the 1990's in my field (technology). Today it is almost complete with most of the iT jobs gone and our government turns a blind eye because money is power and we are just workers.
11
Not all Indian employees go back to India. Why, my Indian neighbor down the street here in Silicon Valley, who works for one of these outsourcing companies, lives in a $2+ million house courtesy of laid off Americans and corrupt members of Congress from Silicon Valley (all Democrats).
10
so he makes more than american engineers (he must if he can afford a $2mn house)?
1
Shopping at ToyRUs when my child was an infant and child was such a dispiriting place and space that it only contributed to my postpartum depression. Always a "soulless" space with none of the magic that a toy store should ideally have. Depressing to read that the corporation behind ToysRUs is "soulless" as well.
9
Myth # 1: The U.S. does not have qualified IT workers: Judging by the skills of my 17 year old and 19 year old and their friends, who eat and breath computer stuff, and presuming that the U.S has zillions more like them and that U.S. schools are cranking out hordes of youths just like them, the youth of America, which from my perspective includes anyone under 30, can outrun and outgun anyone from outside the U.S.
Myth #2: "Old" Americans are hopelessly out of step and can't learn new skills. Huh? This is false. Youngsters, take heed! You are not better than your elders. Try not to be too ageist.
Myth #2: "Old" Americans are hopelessly out of step and can't learn new skills. Huh? This is false. Youngsters, take heed! You are not better than your elders. Try not to be too ageist.
16
@Martin R Linker
Your kids are the exception, not the rule. The average American teen spend their time on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram; playing football, soccer, knock-out game; learning humanities and creationism and want to become social worker, Peace Corp volunteers or rights activists.
Your kids are the exception, not the rule. The average American teen spend their time on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram; playing football, soccer, knock-out game; learning humanities and creationism and want to become social worker, Peace Corp volunteers or rights activists.
Some interesting opposing viewpoints. Where to begin....
1) Managers making these decision for corporations are not invested in the long term success of that company, they are short term at best. They are contracted by the corporations, they work 5-7 years, boost their resume, take a nice severance package and more on the the next company.
2) H1b visas have a place is supplying needed technology, yes. But if you are a corporation and you can hire someone on a visa for $65k a year rather than an American at $95k a year, you know what they are going to do. EXPLOIT, because they are corporations and that is what they do.
3) We have a number of consultants from overseas, 2/3 are male. Of the females, currently almost 50% are pregnant. Anchor babies, think about it. (Before you call me Xenophobic, I lived and was educated overseas in a number of countries, I am anything but Xenophobic.)
4) There are 2 kinds of IT, industry standard straightforward, IBM standard kind of work, and there is business IT dealing with proprietary software and business logic. I know what I know with 30+ years of experience, that is not transferable with a few months of shadowing, reverse shadowing, lecturing, etc. There will be a price to pay in the long run.
5) The selling of middle class America. These jobs in accounting and IT are classic middle class jobs. This is the part of society that spend. If they are out of work, who is going to support the economy? Overseas workers? I don't think so.
1) Managers making these decision for corporations are not invested in the long term success of that company, they are short term at best. They are contracted by the corporations, they work 5-7 years, boost their resume, take a nice severance package and more on the the next company.
2) H1b visas have a place is supplying needed technology, yes. But if you are a corporation and you can hire someone on a visa for $65k a year rather than an American at $95k a year, you know what they are going to do. EXPLOIT, because they are corporations and that is what they do.
3) We have a number of consultants from overseas, 2/3 are male. Of the females, currently almost 50% are pregnant. Anchor babies, think about it. (Before you call me Xenophobic, I lived and was educated overseas in a number of countries, I am anything but Xenophobic.)
4) There are 2 kinds of IT, industry standard straightforward, IBM standard kind of work, and there is business IT dealing with proprietary software and business logic. I know what I know with 30+ years of experience, that is not transferable with a few months of shadowing, reverse shadowing, lecturing, etc. There will be a price to pay in the long run.
5) The selling of middle class America. These jobs in accounting and IT are classic middle class jobs. This is the part of society that spend. If they are out of work, who is going to support the economy? Overseas workers? I don't think so.
23
Well, well, well...look who is crying foul? When America was thumping other countries with its products, ideas and business domination...it was all well and good. And when it stole the best of their global engineers, scientists and super talent, through brain drain (even from poor countries) it was well and good. Now Americans cannot pay for their second car, their big houses and their wasteful lifestyle....this theory, the actually killed for, is not so good, uh?
When Indira Gandhi asked Reagan of brain drain, he merely chuckled and said, "That is the American way. They apply, we review, we recruit, we select and we offer them the American dream for their talent and their skills. You must try this sometime". India is trying just that,
India was seen at that time as "too Socialist" and too pro-Russian. Now the shoes are on the other side, and it does not seem to fit so well for people who are being out competed by a foreign degree holder who is working longer, harder and smarter.
America: Preaching Capitalism when we are winning and Whining Socialism when we are losing.
You can't have it both ways. These are people who are coming legally, not illegally. They are working their backsides off, and they want to both help American companies, our society, as well as benefit some. Is that so bad? If you have a problem go whine to your CEOs and bosses...
When Indira Gandhi asked Reagan of brain drain, he merely chuckled and said, "That is the American way. They apply, we review, we recruit, we select and we offer them the American dream for their talent and their skills. You must try this sometime". India is trying just that,
India was seen at that time as "too Socialist" and too pro-Russian. Now the shoes are on the other side, and it does not seem to fit so well for people who are being out competed by a foreign degree holder who is working longer, harder and smarter.
America: Preaching Capitalism when we are winning and Whining Socialism when we are losing.
You can't have it both ways. These are people who are coming legally, not illegally. They are working their backsides off, and they want to both help American companies, our society, as well as benefit some. Is that so bad? If you have a problem go whine to your CEOs and bosses...
6
Throwing Americans out of work is not helping our society.
8
"foreign degree holder who is working longer, harder and smarter."
You forgot cheaper, and that is the real reason. Screw the worker so the CEO looks good and the investors are happy.
You forgot cheaper, and that is the real reason. Screw the worker so the CEO looks good and the investors are happy.
7
I didn't for Ronald Reagan. That's mainly because of his swaggering, cowboy style. If Reagan were here now, he would say or do whatever his big corporation supporters wanted said or done. He would be a big proponent of H-1B visas.
How much lower can the overpaid 1% go before they scrape the utter bottom of ethical behavior? How can the people who come up with these schemes go home and look their families in the eye and pretend that they are honorable human beings who care about something other than using other human beings as disposable garbage?
19
Humans have bred themselves into commodity status, scoffing at the warnings of 40 or 50 years ago that could have curbed them.
It ought to start getting really interesting in 75 years or so when there are nearly double the current number on the planet. $5 a day and a biscuit will be looking pretty good to the grandchildren of today's complainers.
It ought to start getting really interesting in 75 years or so when there are nearly double the current number on the planet. $5 a day and a biscuit will be looking pretty good to the grandchildren of today's complainers.
1
H1Bs bind an employee to a specific employer, which makes it impossible for the imported person to shop around for better pay or avoid bad working conditions. This, in turn, destroys the labor market for Americans, who will not brave the education they need to carry out that job. Ask American Biology Post-Docs (if you find any) how they are paying back their student loans.
6
Didn't we already do the whole indentured servant thing?
Let us assume that this is capitalism and it helps everyone. The fundamental question to ask is whether it can help everyone without lowering the American standard of living - access to clean air, water, food, education, freedom of speech and religion, and preventive healthcare. The simple answer is NO. Our Government has failed to fine tune capitalism as it fits the changing world. Even if some commentators here hate Toys R Us or Disney, it is not going to make a big dent to company as poor consumers will always choose lower prices over anything. Push your local legislators to act and practice capitalism with social responsibility. Responsible capitalism can change the lives of citizens in other countries too.
5
Come on people this is the glorious capitalism you love so much! Isn't it great!
10
This is all very disconcerting and certainly not news, but how many outraged commenters are looking at the big picture?
Big picture is: free market capitalism forces this upon us. Toys"R"Us does these things because the market forces them to. They do it because we like cheap toys for our kids. They do it because if their earnings are down, their stock gets dumped and they're out of business. They do it so that the rich can get richer and the middle class can get poorer.
Our system only rewards those at the top. We made it that way, and we love it that way - despite our better interests.
Big picture is: free market capitalism forces this upon us. Toys"R"Us does these things because the market forces them to. They do it because we like cheap toys for our kids. They do it because if their earnings are down, their stock gets dumped and they're out of business. They do it so that the rich can get richer and the middle class can get poorer.
Our system only rewards those at the top. We made it that way, and we love it that way - despite our better interests.
6
Seriously? Have you checked prices lately? Have you checked c-level compensation?
1
"We" have nothing to do with the 1%, who make the rules.
2
The reality is we are living in a global world where increasingly meaning of countries with borders make less sense. Coming from India myself I can assure readers here that it is indeed true that local talent isn't available in all areas as much as it is in demand. While there are brilliant Americans who do wonderful stuff the numbers are less in STEM. All I believe is it is your resume, your skills and your unique qualifications that supersede borders that will guarantee your job and not anything else as its not just Asians competing against Americans but many places Asians competing against Asians in United States and elsewhere or Americans competing with themselves in workplace.
3
Corporations can - and will - bring in foreign workers to learn the tasks and return to their native lands to train others. What strikes me is that most, if not all, corporate leaders are led to believe that "ceritificaitions" make the job. In my experience, it takes years of experience working with the specific applications to meld them into what the customer needs. No one function or organization can ever do that. We must address the customer's product life cycle to automate the entirety of that cycle. No one can just sit and code. That person must know what the customer needs and wants. This process requires dialogue with the "end user", not just sitting at some terminal and coding. Corporations do themselves a great disservice by laying off the workers who have that industry knowledge.
1
"One accountant said a worker from India made an exact digital “recording” during the day as he performed his job. At the close of business, the recording was transmitted to India, where workers practiced mimicking his tasks." - this is great! just great! it's exactly what is going on... it's a real shame... and the author here is talking about the irony for many of the employees losing their jobs, because they came to the united states themselves. "They followed the immigration rules — some coming as refugees, others with work visas and computer degrees from their home countries. Most became American citizens." - that's right! i don't see anything ironic in this situation: outsourcing is totally different!
2
...the end result
DONALD TRUMP a leading candidate for the presidency.
DONALD TRUMP a leading candidate for the presidency.
6
And he wants Carl Icahn as his treasury secretary, one of New York's local oligarchs. With ruthless businessmen in charge, what could possibly go wrong?
I do see the importance of H1-B visas because without it some of the brightest international students in the US would not be able to find jobs in the US and in turn help the US. However, the misuse of this visa is a big problem. An easy fix would be to restrict these visas for consulting and outsourcing firms. If you are a consulting firm like Accenture or a outsourcing firm like TCS, you don't get to hite H1-B employers.
1
As a result of this kind of misuse of the H1B visa program, the brightest international students who earn degrees at U.S. universities are forced to go back to their home countries. What we need to do is scrap the H1B program entirely and give automatic green cards to international students who earn PhDs at accredited U.S. universities. If only we had a congress that tackled such issues rather than take vote after vote to undo the ACA and defund Planned Parenthood ....
2
And our neo-con Supremies calls Toys R Us a "person."...whose purpose in life is to make money for their investors. Wall Street capitalism is a cancer eating away at the American culture. We need a revolution. Our country has been bought and paid for, and we are all slaves to it.
11
At my last job, for a publicly traded biotech run primarily by Indians, the CEO used the company as a way to bring over family and friends. At one point, he brought a girl over to work in marketing and analytics who had no background in marketing or analytics. They lied on her documents, funded her permits, and I was asked to train her on my job.
Sensing what was coming, I trained her on the basics, and showed her how to run the analytics and execute the marketing programs, which was quite complex given the FDA is involved. At some point she felt comfortable, and I was told I would eventually be let go. Luckily, I had another job lined up and quit.
I stayed in touch with colleagues at the company who said they never saw another analytics report and that the marketing fell apart. If you see this coming, you should show them just enough to make them feel confident, but never enough to really master the systems. This girl could use my program, but not build it, and she quickly failed. She didn't care though. After a few months her husband came over also and found a job at a company.
I don't have anger towards the individuals as they are trying to better their lives. It's the companies that need to be accountable for aggregious labor practices and manipulation of the law. At a time when the middle class is eroding, and corporate profits are up, this has to stop.
Sensing what was coming, I trained her on the basics, and showed her how to run the analytics and execute the marketing programs, which was quite complex given the FDA is involved. At some point she felt comfortable, and I was told I would eventually be let go. Luckily, I had another job lined up and quit.
I stayed in touch with colleagues at the company who said they never saw another analytics report and that the marketing fell apart. If you see this coming, you should show them just enough to make them feel confident, but never enough to really master the systems. This girl could use my program, but not build it, and she quickly failed. She didn't care though. After a few months her husband came over also and found a job at a company.
I don't have anger towards the individuals as they are trying to better their lives. It's the companies that need to be accountable for aggregious labor practices and manipulation of the law. At a time when the middle class is eroding, and corporate profits are up, this has to stop.
19
If corporations want to do this, they shouldn't get the protection of American laws, copyright protection and our courts.
If they want to be multi-nationals with no allegiance to hiring Americans, they should be incorporated someplace else. Enough already.
If they want to be multi-nationals with no allegiance to hiring Americans, they should be incorporated someplace else. Enough already.
11
Or the protection of our military and police forces.
1
It boggles the mind that folks freak out when an undocumented worker picks lettuce or clears tables in a restaurant. They claim that "they" are taking jobs away from Americans and breed the anti-Latino sentiment that is so pervasive. Yet companies like Toys R Us, New York Life and Disney can ship entire divisions to India, in the name of "cost cutting" and that is okay? Big corporations can fire long time American workers in the pursuit of "shareholder value" or "global competiveness" and eliminate tens of thousands of well paying jobs, but the real threat to America is some Mexican picking tomatoes. This nation is just damned pathetic and well deserves the fools it elected.
10
wlg, I think the problem is that these ToysRUS workers are those the readers of NY Times empathize with (i.e., white collar professionals). The food pickers and restaurant workers, on the other hand, are not. If the readers of the Times worked in the fields or fast food, there would be a different view.
If businesses can not export jobs overseas, they will import either undocumented workers for low skill jobs or H-1B workers for higher skill jobs. Employees become contractors at lower wages with no benefits. Three full time jobs of 40 hours each become four part time jobs of 29 hours each to reduce wages and to eliminate insurance coverage.
Karl Marx theorized capitalism would fail because capitalists would suppress wages to the extent that workers could not afford to buy the goods and services that capitalists produced. Marx just might be right. Corporations are engaged in a great effort to reduce the standard of living for workers in the United States to that in the third world.
Karl Marx theorized capitalism would fail because capitalists would suppress wages to the extent that workers could not afford to buy the goods and services that capitalists produced. Marx just might be right. Corporations are engaged in a great effort to reduce the standard of living for workers in the United States to that in the third world.
12
If businesses cannot export jobs overseas, they likely will export themselves overseas. There's no real reason other than tax breaks to keep a global company like Ford, Walmart, Procter & Gamble, McDonald's, Microsoft, etc. headquartered on American soil.
There is one ruling that the Labor Department can and MUST promulgate with all speed possible. It is rule that any worker that has or is to be displaced by any H-1B or L-1B person cannot have the threat of withholding any severance benefits or threat of having any unemployment disqualified or delayed should they attempt to file complaints or go public. Any layoffs or displacement because of these foreign visa workers would be considered to be prim a fascia evidence of fraud and subject to severe penalties on the outsourcing company and contracting company!
5
When this is done by a contractor or sub-contractor this is hard to enforce.
1
Julia Preston has done an excellent job on this and other abuses of the visa system. The thing left screaming and unsaid is that the H1-B visa program is being abused because the administration wants it that way. An administrative judge recently told them point blank to cut it out so they moved on to another more obscure visa and began blowing it up as well. The simple fact is this necessary enough program would work fine if the administration in power (and both parties do this with abandon) did not allow a zillion different waivers.
That the H1B is now being used to fascilitate outsourcing is a scandel worth a series of articles......just follow the money and patronage nick nacks it ends at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
That the H1B is now being used to fascilitate outsourcing is a scandel worth a series of articles......just follow the money and patronage nick nacks it ends at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
5
A necessary evil of Capitalism. Profits trump humaneness.
1
These H1B visas never had anything to do with hiring talent not available in the United States. At their very worst they end as shown in this article. At the very best they act to lower the wages of comparable workers already here.
The reason?
The labor market is subject to supply and demand just as with any other market. If there are 80,000 chemical engineers employed and you bring in another 10,000 willing to work for half the pay then those already here will get that many fewer offers and their pay will stagnate.
Worse for America, because chemical engineering is no longer a high paying job young folks with ability decide to go into finance or marketing and we end up with even fewer 'highly skilled' workers in the next generation.
The H1B and programs like it are not a cure but a cause of our difficulties. Like many shortcuts they just make matters worse.
The reason?
The labor market is subject to supply and demand just as with any other market. If there are 80,000 chemical engineers employed and you bring in another 10,000 willing to work for half the pay then those already here will get that many fewer offers and their pay will stagnate.
Worse for America, because chemical engineering is no longer a high paying job young folks with ability decide to go into finance or marketing and we end up with even fewer 'highly skilled' workers in the next generation.
The H1B and programs like it are not a cure but a cause of our difficulties. Like many shortcuts they just make matters worse.
8
Mike,
Mitt Romney disagrees with you (as does the US Chamber of Commerce).
Mitt Romney disagrees with you (as does the US Chamber of Commerce).
Toys R Us is off my Holiday buying list for not thinking about Americans first - American consumption dollars built their business. Apparently, their corporate officers forgot that fact while they were cashing their bonus checks.
6
I am an immigrant and work in IT , I also attended college in US . I do independent consulting, and the truth is, it’s a constant study of subject to be sell-able in market, let alone a good consulting hourly rate.
I am constantly challenged during interview on many IT issues and to counter that, most in my industry go to upgrade their education with certifications and college programs. US is the leading destination for higher education. I see many Americans getting this education and getting smarter and sharper. US is the most efficient country on many levels, kind of reflecting on its citizens.
I see mix of students taking these classes, and that's what makes US a fun place to be, it’s so on the cutting edge.
Out sourcing is the natural order of capitalism and as like everything, it has its good and bad, the key is the Darwinian thought, species that adapts quickly to the environment, is a species that thrives.
I personally think, there is no replacement for experience.
I am constantly challenged during interview on many IT issues and to counter that, most in my industry go to upgrade their education with certifications and college programs. US is the leading destination for higher education. I see many Americans getting this education and getting smarter and sharper. US is the most efficient country on many levels, kind of reflecting on its citizens.
I see mix of students taking these classes, and that's what makes US a fun place to be, it’s so on the cutting edge.
Out sourcing is the natural order of capitalism and as like everything, it has its good and bad, the key is the Darwinian thought, species that adapts quickly to the environment, is a species that thrives.
I personally think, there is no replacement for experience.
I've said this many times here on this issue. There is absolutely no reason for H-1B Visas. If you are that talented you will figure out how to do the job from your home/office. With high speed internet, Skype, remote access computer programs, VoIP, and many other new or emerging technologies you can be anywhere. Companies have been using this scam for years. If a company does get an H-1B Visa for a particular person they should be forced to pay them 10 times the going rate. That will force them to decide if this person is really worth it.
2
I don't think those temporary visa programs were ever really intended to help companies bring in workers with rare skills into jobs which Americans could not do. America is so vast and has so many educated, intelligent people that this would never actually occur, maybe when we imported German physicists to help develop the atomic bomb, but that's about it. The purpose has always been for politicians to give a special deal to big business and the rich to cut costs by importing cheap labor so that they could pay themselves even more billions. Wait until people get a load of the Trade In Services Agreement (TISA), the next corporate "free trade" deal to come down the pike. While it is "top secret" it will reportedly do to service employees, even down to restaurant waiters, what the earlier "free trade" deals have done to American manufacturing employees, but in reverse. It will authorize big business to start replacing American service employees wholesale with cheap foreign labor and we will be legally helpless to do anything about it.
1
Perhaps the moderators will allow the point that the Clintons have longstanding ties with Tata and Infosys. Any Democrat believing that "immigration reform" so gladly supported by both GOP and Dem corporate lobbyists is anything but more of the same is lost. It's beyond a joke that we have this emphasis on STEM while letting our jobs be outsourced and our IP stolen blatantly by these "allies."
1
Every time I hear some high-paid exec utter the words, "our shareholders," I shudder because I know they won't hesitate for a second to "right size" their employees to boost their bottom lines. These companies may not be "technically" breaking the law, but they sure are gutting our economy, as well as punishing and traumatizing good American workers who don't deserve to lose their jobs. All so they can deliver profitable numbers to their 'SHAREHOLDERS." They have no idea how lives, plans, and futures are affected by their heartless greed.
I'd suggest a website that lists all these firms in one place. I would boycott every single one of them.
I'd suggest a website that lists all these firms in one place. I would boycott every single one of them.
4
Target Corp did the same thing, bring in Indian workers to learn our jobs. It wasn't to lay off existing workers, it was because they couldn't find enough IT workers to fill all the jobs. Competition from the other Fortune 500 companies in a small market meant that in order to attract quality IT workers, Target would have to increase wages. Why pay more when you can hire five workers in India to do the same job? They hired over 1,500 people in Bangalore at Target India.
The move backfired. After moving most of the work to India, many of the remaining IT workers realized that their job was no longer IT work but managing the off-shore workers. Most of the quality IT workers left Target for better wages and to do the work they loved. The remaining IT workers moved into management where the wages were higher, leaving the company with an IT department bloated with middle managers and "Technical Architects," people who didn't know Java code from monkeys typing at a keyboard. The result was a bloated company full of highly paid middle managers that moved at a snails pace while the competition began snacking at their lunch.
The move backfired. After moving most of the work to India, many of the remaining IT workers realized that their job was no longer IT work but managing the off-shore workers. Most of the quality IT workers left Target for better wages and to do the work they loved. The remaining IT workers moved into management where the wages were higher, leaving the company with an IT department bloated with middle managers and "Technical Architects," people who didn't know Java code from monkeys typing at a keyboard. The result was a bloated company full of highly paid middle managers that moved at a snails pace while the competition began snacking at their lunch.
WHY does the article keep referring to these H1B imported on-site note-takers as "immigrants" ????
I am an immigrant and work in IT , I also attended college in US . I do independent consulting, and the truth is, it’s a constant study of subject to be sell-able in market, let alone a good consulting hourly rate.
I am constantly challenged during interview on many IT issues and to counter that, most in my industry go to upgrade their education with certifications and college programs. US is the leading destination for higher education. I see many Americans getting this education and getting smarter and sharper. US is the most efficient country on many levels, kind of reflecting on its citizens.
I see mix of students taking these classes, and that's what makes US a fun place to be, it’s so on the cutting edge.
Out sourcing is the natural order of capitalism and as like everything, it has its good and bad, the key is the Darwinian thought, species that adapts quickly to the environment, is a species that thrives.
I personally think, there is no replacement for experience.
I am constantly challenged during interview on many IT issues and to counter that, most in my industry go to upgrade their education with certifications and college programs. US is the leading destination for higher education. I see many Americans getting this education and getting smarter and sharper. US is the most efficient country on many levels, kind of reflecting on its citizens.
I see mix of students taking these classes, and that's what makes US a fun place to be, it’s so on the cutting edge.
Out sourcing is the natural order of capitalism and as like everything, it has its good and bad, the key is the Darwinian thought, species that adapts quickly to the environment, is a species that thrives.
I personally think, there is no replacement for experience.
3
you are absolutely right, there is no replacement for experience!
1
I've said this many times here on this issue. There is absolutely no reason for H-1B Visas. If you are that talented you will figure out how to do the job from your home/office. With high speed internet, Skype, remote access computer programs, VoIP, and many other new or emerging technologies you can be anywhere. Companies have been using this scam for years. If a company does get an H-1B Visa for a particular person they should be forced to pay them 10 times the going rate. That will force them to decide if this person is really worth it.
7
I don't think those temporary visa programs were ever really intended to help companies bring in workers with rare skills into jobs which Americans could not do. America is so vast and has so many educated, intelligent people that this would never actually occur, maybe when we imported German physicists to help develop the atomic bomb, but that's about it. The purpose has always been for politicians to give a special deal to big business and the rich to cut costs by importing cheap labor so that they could pay themselves even more billions. Wait until people get a load of the Trade In Services Agreement (TISA), the next corporate "free trade" deal to come down the pike. While it is "top secret" it will reportedly do to service employees, even down to restaurant waiters, what the earlier "free trade" deals have done to American manufacturing employees, but in reverse. It will authorize big business to start replacing American service employees wholesale with cheap foreign labor and we will be legally helpless to do anything about it.
7
Fast track anyone?
Perhaps the moderators will allow the point that the Clintons have longstanding ties with Tata and Infosys. Any Democrat believing that "immigration reform" so gladly supported by both GOP and Dem corporate lobbyists is anything but more of the same is lost. It's beyond a joke that we have this emphasis on STEM while letting our jobs be outsourced and our IP stolen blatantly by these "allies."
9
Every time I hear some high-paid exec utter the words, "our shareholders," I shudder because I know they won't hesitate for a second to "right size" their employees to boost their bottom lines. These companies may not be "technically" breaking the law, but they sure are gutting our economy, as well as punishing and traumatizing good American workers who don't deserve to lose their jobs. All so they can deliver profitable numbers to their 'SHAREHOLDERS." They have no idea how lives, plans, and futures are affected by their heartless greed.
I'd suggest a website that lists all these firms in one place. I would boycott every single one of them.
I'd suggest a website that lists all these firms in one place. I would boycott every single one of them.
6
As a shareholder who will be depending on my 401(k)'s stock portfolio for old-age security, I like it when companies boost their value and eradicate deadwood.
1
And have you ever considered that it is coming at the expense of someone you know and/or care about. Since you approve of this, pray tell, what jobs should college students aim for? Last I saw, middle class America was not telling college students to be plumbers, etc. I don't claim to have answers, but I am not blind to the vicious cycle we find ourselves in and our political leaders could care less- they are always well connected to be taken care of.
1
Target Corp did the same thing, bring in Indian workers to learn our jobs. It wasn't to lay off existing workers, it was because they couldn't find enough IT workers to fill all the jobs. Competition from the other Fortune 500 companies in a small market meant that in order to attract quality IT workers, Target would have to increase wages. Why pay more when you can hire five workers in India to do the same job? They hired over 1,500 people in Bangalore at Target India.
The move backfired. After moving most of the work to India, many of the remaining IT workers realized that their job was no longer IT work but managing the off-shore workers. Most of the quality IT workers left Target for better wages and to do the work they loved. The remaining IT workers moved into management where the wages were higher, leaving the company with an IT department bloated with middle managers and "Technical Architects," people who didn't know Java code from monkeys typing at a keyboard. The result was a bloated company full of highly paid middle managers that moved at a snails pace while the competition began snacking at their lunch.
The move backfired. After moving most of the work to India, many of the remaining IT workers realized that their job was no longer IT work but managing the off-shore workers. Most of the quality IT workers left Target for better wages and to do the work they loved. The remaining IT workers moved into management where the wages were higher, leaving the company with an IT department bloated with middle managers and "Technical Architects," people who didn't know Java code from monkeys typing at a keyboard. The result was a bloated company full of highly paid middle managers that moved at a snails pace while the competition began snacking at their lunch.
12
yup, these "Technical Architects" are all over the place these days...
2
Not that this had anything to do with security breaches last year. Not at all.
WHY does the article keep referring to these H1B imported on-site note-takers as "immigrants" ????
12
i don't understand it either! absolutely incorrect.
Exactly - this is a non-immigration visa that have been twisted into an immigration visa. The ones who then apply for green cards now can get their family members work permits - thanks to Obama's early Xmas present to immigrants last year. Just another nail in the coffin .
1
This is nothing new. I was a computer programmer for 20 years, and in my last job worked at a financial services firm. Workers from Tata in India were brought in to work with us, to learn the systems and assist coders back in India. But gradually all the programming jobs were moved to India and I was out of work. The programmers did not have any more special skills than I or others like me had; they just had lower wages. There was no shortage of programmers to do the work; American workers had higher salaries. The H1-B visa program is most often used to send jobs overseas to lower-wage companies, or bring in lower-wage people from those companies to replace American workers, not to serve as additional, highly-skilled workers to fill jobs that cannot be filled otherwise.
2
The irony of New York Life's ad campaigns is especially galling in view of this news. It used "the company you keep" and more recently "keep good going" as its corporate slogans. The public relations department will be working overtime to contain this mess. Perhaps a name change is in order....New Delhi Life has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
1
This is nothing new. I was a computer programmer for 20 years, and in my last job worked at a financial services firm. Workers from Tata in India were brought in to work with us, to learn the systems and assist coders back in India. But gradually all the programming jobs were moved to India and I was out of work. The programmers did not have any more special skills than I or others like me had; they just had lower wages. There was no shortage of programmers to do the work; American workers had higher salaries. The H1-B visa program is most often used to send jobs overseas to lower-wage companies, or bring in lower-wage people from those companies to replace American workers, not to serve as additional, highly-skilled workers to fill jobs that cannot be filled otherwise.
7
The irony of New York Life's ad campaigns is especially galling in view of this news. It used "the company you keep" and more recently "keep good going" as its corporate slogans. The public relations department will be working overtime to contain this mess. Perhaps a name change is in order....New Delhi Life has a nice ring to it, don't you think?
7
I am also one of those who have been hurt by the current Visa system, but from the other side. In the past few years, the number of petitions for H-1B Visas has far exceeded the quota. This year, there were more than 230,000 petitions for 85,000 slots - of which 20,000 are reserved for masters/phd applicants.
The way in which the petitions are selected is not meritocratic, but rather a simple lottery. An Infosys petitioner getting paid dime on the dollar will have an equal chance at being selected as an honest petitioner. The application fees for a petition is cheap, and will be refunded if it is not selected, which incentivizes dishonest people to use consulting firms to file multiple petitions to increase their odds of being selected in the Visa lottery. Other dishonest people with money bypass the entire system altogether via the way of a green card marriage.
I went to high school and college in the United States, and worked hard to achieve good grades. It has long been my dream to become a United States citizen. However, because of the current Visa system and those who are abusing it, I was not selected in the lottery, and my future in this country is unclear despite having received a competitive offer from one of the big four firms.
It is my sincere hope that the current Visa system is changed in a way to become more meritocratic, rather than being a simple lottery, and changed in such a way to prevent blatant abuses by outsourcing firms like Infosys.
The way in which the petitions are selected is not meritocratic, but rather a simple lottery. An Infosys petitioner getting paid dime on the dollar will have an equal chance at being selected as an honest petitioner. The application fees for a petition is cheap, and will be refunded if it is not selected, which incentivizes dishonest people to use consulting firms to file multiple petitions to increase their odds of being selected in the Visa lottery. Other dishonest people with money bypass the entire system altogether via the way of a green card marriage.
I went to high school and college in the United States, and worked hard to achieve good grades. It has long been my dream to become a United States citizen. However, because of the current Visa system and those who are abusing it, I was not selected in the lottery, and my future in this country is unclear despite having received a competitive offer from one of the big four firms.
It is my sincere hope that the current Visa system is changed in a way to become more meritocratic, rather than being a simple lottery, and changed in such a way to prevent blatant abuses by outsourcing firms like Infosys.
1
I am also one of those who have been hurt by the current Visa system, but from the other side. In the past few years, the number of petitions for H-1B Visas has far exceeded the quota. This year, there were more than 230,000 petitions for 85,000 slots - of which 20,000 are reserved for masters/phd applicants.
The way in which the petitions are selected is not meritocratic, but rather a simple lottery. An Infosys petitioner getting paid dime on the dollar will have an equal chance at being selected as an honest petitioner. The application fees for a petition is cheap, and will be refunded if it is not selected, which incentivizes dishonest people to use consulting firms to file multiple petitions to increase their odds of being selected in the Visa lottery. Other dishonest people with money bypass the entire system altogether via the way of a green card marriage.
I went to high school and college in the United States, and worked hard to achieve good grades. It has long been my dream to become a United States citizen. However, because of the current Visa system and those who are abusing it, I was not selected in the lottery, and my future in this country is unclear despite having received a competitive offer from one of the big four firms.
It is my sincere hope that the current Visa system is changed in a way to become more meritocratic, rather than being a simple lottery, and changed in such a way to prevent blatant abuses by outsourcing firms like Infosys.
The way in which the petitions are selected is not meritocratic, but rather a simple lottery. An Infosys petitioner getting paid dime on the dollar will have an equal chance at being selected as an honest petitioner. The application fees for a petition is cheap, and will be refunded if it is not selected, which incentivizes dishonest people to use consulting firms to file multiple petitions to increase their odds of being selected in the Visa lottery. Other dishonest people with money bypass the entire system altogether via the way of a green card marriage.
I went to high school and college in the United States, and worked hard to achieve good grades. It has long been my dream to become a United States citizen. However, because of the current Visa system and those who are abusing it, I was not selected in the lottery, and my future in this country is unclear despite having received a competitive offer from one of the big four firms.
It is my sincere hope that the current Visa system is changed in a way to become more meritocratic, rather than being a simple lottery, and changed in such a way to prevent blatant abuses by outsourcing firms like Infosys.
7
My company no longer let's me "interview" these H1b candidates - their resumes are puffed up (to put it kindly) and they cannot answer questions on experience, skills or business knowledge. But they all have a piece of paper saying they have degrees etc. Shameful.
The examination of H1b visa applications needs to be more through.
The examination of H1b visa applications needs to be more through.
1
So you came here as a. 'International Student', shich by definition means to study. So then tou can go back home. What makes you think you have a given right to stay?
Here's yet another "benefit" of global trade, from the folks who brought you the complaint that Americans are "unskilled," while guys like Scott Walker attempt to eliminate educational opportunities. I'm sure Americans are cheering about how our trade treaties, and our education system, have helped them lead better lives. It's also another way for such companies to evade taxes, under the current rules. Before long, the only jobs left will be government jobs, or are they exporting jobs, as well?
Here's yet another "benefit" of global trade, from the folks who brought you the complaint that Americans are "unskilled," while guys like Scott Walker attempt to eliminate educational opportunities. I'm sure Americans are cheering about how our trade treaties, and our education system, have helped them lead better lives. It's also another way for such companies to evade taxes, under the current rules. Before long, the only jobs left will be government jobs, or are they exporting jobs, as well?
3
According to the gospel of the G.O.P, this is freeing businesses to do as they wish. Don't regulate business, who cares if Americans loose their jobs after ten or fifteen years of service. Yet, uninformed voters flock to this G.O.P cutting their noses to despise their faces. The republican party ONLY worships the "almighty dollar" yet pretends to cry wolf about this government not having jobs for Americans . So sad, people need to be informed.
1
Stop buying toys for your children, From Toys "R" Us. You are inadvertently destroying their future. The only way to put some sense in the CEOs heads is to cut the money supply line.
The choice is yours! Make it without much ado. Start today.
The choice is yours! Make it without much ado. Start today.
1
I will stop shopping at Toys 'R; US and would have nothing to do with NY Life. If we don't support our economy, who would. Taking food out-of-Americans' table and give them to foreign entities could not be tolerated.
According to the gospel of the G.O.P, this is freeing businesses to do as they wish. Don't regulate business, who cares if Americans loose their jobs after ten or fifteen years of service. Yet, uninformed voters flock to this G.O.P cutting their noses to despise their faces. The republican party ONLY worships the "almighty dollar" yet pretends to cry wolf about this government not having jobs for Americans . So sad, people need to be informed.
3
This has been heavily promoted by Democrats -don't aim at only one party.
1
Stop buying toys for your children, From Toys "R" Us. You are inadvertently destroying their future. The only way to put some sense in the CEOs heads is to cut the money supply line.
The choice is yours! Make it without much ado. Start today.
The choice is yours! Make it without much ado. Start today.
3
I will stop shopping at Toys 'R; US and would have nothing to do with NY Life. If we don't support our economy, who would. Taking food out-of-Americans' table and give them to foreign entities could not be tolerated.
4
The comments on this board are beyond ridiculous. Listen, people. Toys R Us is not your neighborhood store, it is a global multinational with stores in many different countries. As such it is primarily accountable to its stock holders. Toys R Us is no more accountable to the citizens of the US than to the citizens of the numerous other countries that they do business in. The commenters on this board seem to feel that Americans are entitled to be paid 10 times more than citizens of other countries for doing exactly the same job. In a globalized world, that is completely unrealistic. Grow up!
The comments on this board are beyond ridiculous. Listen, people. Toys R Us is not your neighborhood store, it is a global multinational with stores in many different countries. As such it is primarily accountable to its stock holders. Toys R Us is no more accountable to the citizens of the US than to the citizens of the numerous other countries that they do business in. The commenters on this board seem to feel that Americans are entitled to be paid 10 times more than citizens of other countries for doing exactly the same job. In a globalized world, that is completely unrealistic. Grow up!
8
"The commenters on this board seem to feel that Americans are entitled to be paid 10 times more than citizens of other countries for doing exactly the same job."
Exactly. They don't have a problem with their employers sourcing raw materials from elsewhere in the world -- often on the backs of exploited workers, exploited animals or detriment to the environment -- and they don't have a problem with big companies boosting their profits by selling overseas, either. But suddenly when asked to compete from a LABOR standpoint it's "Waah, waaah, we deserve preference over overseas labor just because we are American!"
Exactly. They don't have a problem with their employers sourcing raw materials from elsewhere in the world -- often on the backs of exploited workers, exploited animals or detriment to the environment -- and they don't have a problem with big companies boosting their profits by selling overseas, either. But suddenly when asked to compete from a LABOR standpoint it's "Waah, waaah, we deserve preference over overseas labor just because we are American!"
2
Americans believe that they are entitled to jobs in America, living wage jobs. Increased poverty -- to compete with the poverty of other nations -- is not in the best interest of American society.
1
You're absolutely right, TOYS R US is not accountable and is not interested in the best interest of the average American, why should they be? So the average American should not support a company that so clearly markets as American but is not, don't buy from a company that is harming the US Economy.
If the trend of using cheap foreign labor to ruin the lives of Americans who have played by the rules and incurred enormous expense in getting an education continues, we will be on the fast path to socialism or fascism in this country.
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
Many of the comments here show an inability of many to understand the importance of cost cutting in the corporate world. it makes a company more competitive. WHy should a business pay someone more to do a job than is absolutely essential? Unfortunately this is a question that many do not ask themselves. The US Chamber of COmmerce and other US business associations understand this.
May the H-1B visa program continue to help american business stream line and become more efficient. It will help the US grow more (despite so many complaints from a workforce that does not understand the importance of cost cutting).
May the H-1B visa program continue to help american business stream line and become more efficient. It will help the US grow more (despite so many complaints from a workforce that does not understand the importance of cost cutting).
American wages and standards of living are seeking equilibrium with those elsewhere on the planet, now that the economy is irrevocably global.
There is not the slightest chance of that changing to restore special perks and advantages to workers in the United States -- not when there are only a few hundred million here competing with more than 6.5 billion other humans. Many of whom are better educated, multi-lingual and a lot hungrier for a basic livelihood than their American counterparts.
There is not the slightest chance of that changing to restore special perks and advantages to workers in the United States -- not when there are only a few hundred million here competing with more than 6.5 billion other humans. Many of whom are better educated, multi-lingual and a lot hungrier for a basic livelihood than their American counterparts.
I vote for the next President who makes this issue a top priority on his/her agenda. Laying off Americans and giving their jobs to foreigners, is so disloyal and disgusting. Forget you Toys R Us, Disney, and others who practice this. Please share and let these companies know how you feel. They all have FB pages. What a knife in the back. I wouldn't deposit a nickel in these traitors bank accounts
"The Labor Department has opened an investigation of possible visa violations by contractors at the Walt Disney Company and at Southern California Edison, where immigrants replaced Americans in jobs they were doing in this country. "
The above statement is in a paragraph about global outsourcing and consulting firms and is probably out of place. If immigrants are being hired, this is not outsourcing. They are here residing in the States legally and waiting for citizenship if they choose it. This is a divisive statement that once again reinforces what we see now as anti-Immigrant sentiment in this country.
The above statement is in a paragraph about global outsourcing and consulting firms and is probably out of place. If immigrants are being hired, this is not outsourcing. They are here residing in the States legally and waiting for citizenship if they choose it. This is a divisive statement that once again reinforces what we see now as anti-Immigrant sentiment in this country.
Similar problems in education. H1b visas are given to speech pathologists, special ed. teachers from an Asian country. . They write reports that are considered legal documents in broken English . Some are difficult to understand. Now with the contrived teacher's shortage , I expect more outsourcing. It keeps the wages low, breaks the teacher's unions, and the these teachers are not as assertive as American teachers. Our tax dollars at work!
This is treason. This is why our middle class is collapsing. It should be illegal and they should prosecute vigorously.
1
This is an outrage
1
If the trend of using cheap foreign labor to ruin the lives of Americans who have played by the rules and incurred enormous expense in getting an education continues, we will be on the fast path to socialism or fascism in this country.
2
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California (California Department of Justice, California Prison Health Care Services, CalPERS, etc etc), Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
1
Many of the comments here show an inability of many to understand the importance of cost cutting in the corporate world. it makes a company more competitive. WHy should a business pay someone more to do a job than is absolutely essential? Unfortunately this is a question that many do not ask themselves. The US Chamber of COmmerce and other US business associations understand this.
May the H-1B visa program continue to help american business stream line and become more efficient. It will help the US grow more (despite so many complaints from a workforce that does not understand the importance of cost cutting).
May the H-1B visa program continue to help american business stream line and become more efficient. It will help the US grow more (despite so many complaints from a workforce that does not understand the importance of cost cutting).
3
American wages and standards of living are seeking equilibrium with those elsewhere on the planet, now that the economy is irrevocably global.
There is not the slightest chance of that changing to restore special perks and advantages to workers in the United States -- not when there are only a few hundred million here competing with more than 6.5 billion other humans. Many of whom are better educated, multi-lingual and a lot hungrier for a basic livelihood than their American counterparts.
There is not the slightest chance of that changing to restore special perks and advantages to workers in the United States -- not when there are only a few hundred million here competing with more than 6.5 billion other humans. Many of whom are better educated, multi-lingual and a lot hungrier for a basic livelihood than their American counterparts.
4
"American wages and standards of living are seeking equilibrium with those elsewhere on the planet, now that the economy is irrevocably global."
You would think as "as shareholder" your argument would include not just "workers", it would include the highest paid executives in a company from the CEO down... many countries have executives that are "better educated, multi-lingual and hungry" enough to be paid salaries and perks much less expensive than the multi-million dollar packages paid to U.S. executives, thereby increasing shareholder wealth much more substantially.
Right?
You would think as "as shareholder" your argument would include not just "workers", it would include the highest paid executives in a company from the CEO down... many countries have executives that are "better educated, multi-lingual and hungry" enough to be paid salaries and perks much less expensive than the multi-million dollar packages paid to U.S. executives, thereby increasing shareholder wealth much more substantially.
Right?
3
I vote for the next President who makes this issue a top priority on his/her agenda. Laying off Americans and giving their jobs to foreigners, is so disloyal and disgusting. Forget you Toys R Us, Disney, and others who practice this. Please share and let these companies know how you feel. They all have FB pages. What a knife in the back. I wouldn't deposit a nickel in these traitors bank accounts
2
"The Labor Department has opened an investigation of possible visa violations by contractors at the Walt Disney Company and at Southern California Edison, where immigrants replaced Americans in jobs they were doing in this country. "
The above statement is in a paragraph about global outsourcing and consulting firms and is probably out of place. If immigrants are being hired, this is not outsourcing. They are here residing in the States legally and waiting for citizenship if they choose it. This is a divisive statement that once again reinforces what we see now as anti-Immigrant sentiment in this country.
The above statement is in a paragraph about global outsourcing and consulting firms and is probably out of place. If immigrants are being hired, this is not outsourcing. They are here residing in the States legally and waiting for citizenship if they choose it. This is a divisive statement that once again reinforces what we see now as anti-Immigrant sentiment in this country.
2
that's right, this is an incorrect statement. i do agree that it's divisive as well!
Similar problems in education. H1b visas are given to speech pathologists, special ed. teachers from an Asian country. . They write reports that are considered legal documents in broken English . Some are difficult to understand. Now with the contrived teacher's shortage , I expect more outsourcing. It keeps the wages low, breaks the teacher's unions, and the these teachers are not as assertive as American teachers. Our tax dollars at work!
3
Wait until your child with auditory processing issues has one of these teachers.
1
This is treason. This is why our middle class is collapsing. It should be illegal and they should prosecute vigorously.
4
the US chamber of commerce strongly disagrees with you. Why are you so anti-capitalist and free trade?
This is an outrage
4
I see a lot of comments about boycotting corporations that outsource their IT operations to India. Well, you would have to start with the Times first. I remember a friend of mine working in India on a project with the New York Times back in 2007. And it's not only them, from tech giants like Apple, Symantec, Ebay to banks like BoFA, JPMC, Wells Fargo and Health care firms like Metlife and Retail giants like Wal Mart, Target. All the big Indian outsourcers have huge divisions separating the Banking, Insurance, Retail, Technology 'clients'. Outsourcing is simply all-pervasive. It directly employs 4 million (and counting) Indians and boosts other sectors of the Indian economy through their spending. IT outsourcing has hugely benefited the Indian economy, something that is not lost on PM Modi. That explains his 'Digital India' and 'Skills India' initiative as he has seen how young middle class Indians with tech skills have prospered and wants everyone else to benefit from this. This of course , has come at the expense of middle class, mostly older Americans. The question is, what has the US Govt done for such people? Why haven't they provided incentives to US corporations to re-train older workers? Why is there no 'Skills America' initiative in the US?
2
I see a lot of comments about boycotting corporations that outsource their IT operations to India. Well, you would have to start with the Times first. I remember a friend of mine working in India on a project with the New York Times back in 2007. And it's not only them, from tech giants like Apple, Symantec, Ebay to banks like BoFA, JPMC, Wells Fargo and Health care firms like Metlife and Retail giants like Wal Mart, Target. All the big Indian outsourcers have huge divisions separating the Banking, Insurance, Retail, Technology 'clients'. Outsourcing is simply all-pervasive. It directly employs 4 million (and counting) Indians and boosts other sectors of the Indian economy through their spending. IT outsourcing has hugely benefited the Indian economy, something that is not lost on PM Modi. That explains his 'Digital India' and 'Skills India' initiative as he has seen how young middle class Indians with tech skills have prospered and wants everyone else to benefit from this. This of course , has come at the expense of middle class, mostly older Americans. The question is, what has the US Govt done for such people? Why haven't they provided incentives to US corporations to re-train older workers? Why is there no 'Skills America' initiative in the US?
6
Perhaps his shoving Mark Zuckerberg out of the way for a photo opp will drive home the point to US tech "titans" how folks are treated by the beneficiaries of the H1B visa program. I hope Zuckerberg Et Al can imagine how it is to be a skilled IT person or accountant over 50. That is, expendable.
Unfortunately though ToysRUs is a failing concern. If these measured were not resorted to, then even more people would lose their jobs were the firm to liquidate.
2
Unfortunately though ToysRUs is a failing concern. If these measured were not resorted to, then even more people would lose their jobs were the firm to liquidate.
4
Julia Preston, you are a blessing to all us American workers.
Keep up the good work!
...from a former trainer of L-1b visa holders, TATA Inc India employees
Keep up the good work!
...from a former trainer of L-1b visa holders, TATA Inc India employees
1
It's no longer necessary to pay a livable wage to any US worker, because Corporate America no longer needs either the worker or that worker as a consumer. There are a billion Chinese and another billion or so Indians, who not only will take those jobs, but they will also buy the crap that Corporate America produces. We are turning into a 3rd world country with the help of our Government who is wholly owned by, you guessed it, Corporate America.
4
All of the progressives who so dearly support illegal immigration do so because they don't see people mowing lawns and taking care of babies as threats to their livelihood -- on the contrary they are a source of cheap labor. They get a little more nervous when they see middle class jobs being outsourced to India, but they still feel very confidant that if you can copy somebody's job by writing down their keystrokes for three months, the job really isn't very skilled. The big joke will be when they finally realize that doctors in India are reading radiographs for a fraction of what American MDs would charge and indeed, there is no job (including the jobs of management) that cannot be done cheaper elsewhere. America will spiral into third-world status when we no longer have a middle class (or upper middle class) who can support our economy. We've already gone a long way in that direction. There will be only the very rich who own the multinationals and the working poor.
4
In effect Indian company HR personnel in USA goes in with each new green card we have his family members join in the talent pool spouse , kids, parents, sibling and their spouse/ kids and this goes on ad infiintum. Mind you none of them had any high technology skill , experience and capability . They were simply crooks who manipualated the system for the Indian IT companies and they were rewarded amply by them. This is a major tragedy. Most of the smart H1B technologist who could have done wonders for USA economy are forced to back taking back the job as they are not experts at gaming the system of whose gate keepers are HR personnel - again search for Lntifnfotech, Infosys, CTS, TCS , Igate , Mastek etc HR personnel history of how they got their H1B, Green card and Citizenship and you will know how the system is being gamed
It's a very suspicious piece of article. What's described doesn't make sense at a rational mind.
Even if what is described is true, the solution is easy. The Department of Homeland Security will have to forbid new H1-B applications from those companies that do that. And inform the public. I am wondering how they got their H1-B applications approved in the first place. I know of a few skilled professionals, now working in financial agencies in London and Hong Kong, that would have liked to stay in the US but they didn't get their temporary visas approved. And they give one to a click-and-shoot accountant?
Even if what is described is true, the solution is easy. The Department of Homeland Security will have to forbid new H1-B applications from those companies that do that. And inform the public. I am wondering how they got their H1-B applications approved in the first place. I know of a few skilled professionals, now working in financial agencies in London and Hong Kong, that would have liked to stay in the US but they didn't get their temporary visas approved. And they give one to a click-and-shoot accountant?
2
NYT where have you been, this practice has been going on for the past twenty some years. Soon there won't be enough people working in this country making a living wage to buy stuff from these corporations.
4
This has been going on for 25 years.....at least. Suddenly its news?
2
Maybe this is why Trump resonates with voters. He talks about China and Mexico and other countries taking advantage of US laws and treaties without offering anything in return.
Chances are that he won't be able to do much about it. The US is getting caught in a vicious cycle. The economy depends on consumer spending, but wage stagnation and declines - not least because of practices highlighted in this story - are making consumers tighten their belts or over extend.
It is also ironic that countries like India will not allow companies like ToysRUs to open retail operations there without complicated local partnerships.
The only immediate actionable solution would be to draft laws that prevent outsourcing of jobs for less than $25 an hour (or some figure) and a signed declaration by the displaced worker indicating they do not want this job at that rate. This should be audited with penalties for non-compliance.
That is, the displaced worker gets first dibs on the job to be outsourced at a lower rate. For many Americans, earning a less is better than not earning at all.
Chances are that he won't be able to do much about it. The US is getting caught in a vicious cycle. The economy depends on consumer spending, but wage stagnation and declines - not least because of practices highlighted in this story - are making consumers tighten their belts or over extend.
It is also ironic that countries like India will not allow companies like ToysRUs to open retail operations there without complicated local partnerships.
The only immediate actionable solution would be to draft laws that prevent outsourcing of jobs for less than $25 an hour (or some figure) and a signed declaration by the displaced worker indicating they do not want this job at that rate. This should be audited with penalties for non-compliance.
That is, the displaced worker gets first dibs on the job to be outsourced at a lower rate. For many Americans, earning a less is better than not earning at all.
1
Don unto others what u want them to do unto u.
Many readers miss the point - which is that ALL of us are expendable. It is not a question of enhancing your skill set, being creative, or otherwise competing.
1. As the NYT and other media outlets have reported, the high-skill, high-education jobs are also migrating. For instance, American law school graduates no longer have the job path that began with doing grunt work for the partners; that work is being done by lawyers and paralegals in India. You, the client, are paying American prices for Indian work and your attorney is pocketing the difference. STEM will not save you; Indians can learn maths too.
2. Corporations want to charge American prices and pay workers Indian wages - or lower, as India is now losing the lowest-level jobs to the countries for which wages are a handful of rice and benefits are not being beaten when the UN workers are looking. I need not point out that turning the US into a nation of too few producers and too many consumers is unsustainable. The race to the bottom ends inevitably in a crash, not just for us but for the job-taking nations.
3. Offshoring works fine as long as you don't care about the quality of the good or service. The corporate attitude now is 'you'll swallow whatever we dish out, because every company's dishing out the same and you can't afford better.' Ask anyone who's dealt with an overseas call centre, tech support, etc. Halfway around the world; they don't even give you a real name; no accountability, no quality control.
1. As the NYT and other media outlets have reported, the high-skill, high-education jobs are also migrating. For instance, American law school graduates no longer have the job path that began with doing grunt work for the partners; that work is being done by lawyers and paralegals in India. You, the client, are paying American prices for Indian work and your attorney is pocketing the difference. STEM will not save you; Indians can learn maths too.
2. Corporations want to charge American prices and pay workers Indian wages - or lower, as India is now losing the lowest-level jobs to the countries for which wages are a handful of rice and benefits are not being beaten when the UN workers are looking. I need not point out that turning the US into a nation of too few producers and too many consumers is unsustainable. The race to the bottom ends inevitably in a crash, not just for us but for the job-taking nations.
3. Offshoring works fine as long as you don't care about the quality of the good or service. The corporate attitude now is 'you'll swallow whatever we dish out, because every company's dishing out the same and you can't afford better.' Ask anyone who's dealt with an overseas call centre, tech support, etc. Halfway around the world; they don't even give you a real name; no accountability, no quality control.
1
Can you say "Union?" Union contracts can prevent all of that and at the same time create joint labor-management strategies to cut costs and improve quality. It has been done before, in this country. This is win-win. The alternative, described in this article, is like making people dig their own graves. What is needed is a balance, with neither labor nor management holding all of the cards. Then we get growth that is in the national interest.
3
Julia Preston, you are a blessing to all us American workers.
Keep up the good work!
...from a former trainer of L-1b visa holders, TATA Inc India employees
Keep up the good work!
...from a former trainer of L-1b visa holders, TATA Inc India employees
1
It's no longer necessary to pay a livable wage to any US worker, because Corporate America no longer needs either the worker or that worker as a consumer. There are a billion Chinese and another billion or so Indians, who not only will take those jobs, but they will also buy the crap that Corporate America produces. We are turning into a 3rd world country with the help of our Government who is wholly owned by, you guessed it, Corporate America.
4
All of the progressives who so dearly support illegal immigration do so because they don't see people mowing lawns and taking care of babies as threats to their livelihood -- on the contrary they are a source of cheap labor. They get a little more nervous when they see middle class jobs being outsourced to India, but they still feel very confidant that if you can copy somebody's job by writing down their keystrokes for three months, the job really isn't very skilled. The big joke will be when they finally realize that doctors in India are reading radiographs for a fraction of what American MDs would charge and indeed, there is no job (including the jobs of management) that cannot be done cheaper elsewhere. America will spiral into third-world status when we no longer have a middle class (or upper middle class) who can support our economy. We've already gone a long way in that direction. There will be only the very rich who own the multinationals and the working poor.
6
In effect Indian company HR personnel in USA goes in with each new green card we have his family members join in the talent pool spouse , kids, parents, sibling and their spouse/ kids and this goes on ad infiintum. Mind you none of them had any high technology skill , experience and capability . They were simply crooks who manipualated the system for the Indian IT companies and they were rewarded amply by them. This is a major tragedy. Most of the smart H1B technologist who could have done wonders for USA economy are forced to back taking back the job as they are not experts at gaming the system of whose gate keepers are HR personnel - again search for Lntifnfotech, Infosys, CTS, TCS , Igate , Mastek etc HR personnel history of how they got their H1B, Green card and Citizenship and you will know how the system is being gamed
1
It's a very suspicious piece of article. What's described doesn't make sense at a rational mind.
Even if what is described is true, the solution is easy. The Department of Homeland Security will have to forbid new H1-B applications from those companies that do that. And inform the public. I am wondering how they got their H1-B applications approved in the first place. I know of a few skilled professionals, now working in financial agencies in London and Hong Kong, that would have liked to stay in the US but they didn't get their temporary visas approved. And they give one to a click-and-shoot accountant?
Even if what is described is true, the solution is easy. The Department of Homeland Security will have to forbid new H1-B applications from those companies that do that. And inform the public. I am wondering how they got their H1-B applications approved in the first place. I know of a few skilled professionals, now working in financial agencies in London and Hong Kong, that would have liked to stay in the US but they didn't get their temporary visas approved. And they give one to a click-and-shoot accountant?
1
NYT where have you been, this practice has been going on for the past twenty some years. Soon there won't be enough people working in this country making a living wage to buy stuff from these corporations.
3
This has been going on for 25 years.....at least. Suddenly its news?
7
Maybe this is why Trump resonates with voters. He talks about China and Mexico and other countries taking advantage of US laws and treaties without offering anything in return.
Chances are that he won't be able to do much about it. The US is getting caught in a vicious cycle. The economy depends on consumer spending, but wage stagnation and declines - not least because of practices highlighted in this story - are making consumers tighten their belts or over extend.
It is also ironic that countries like India will not allow companies like ToysRUs to open retail operations there without complicated local partnerships.
The only immediate actionable solution would be to draft laws that prevent outsourcing of jobs for less than $25 an hour (or some figure) and a signed declaration by the displaced worker indicating they do not want this job at that rate. This should be audited with penalties for non-compliance.
That is, the displaced worker gets first dibs on the job to be outsourced at a lower rate. For many Americans, earning a less is better than not earning at all.
Chances are that he won't be able to do much about it. The US is getting caught in a vicious cycle. The economy depends on consumer spending, but wage stagnation and declines - not least because of practices highlighted in this story - are making consumers tighten their belts or over extend.
It is also ironic that countries like India will not allow companies like ToysRUs to open retail operations there without complicated local partnerships.
The only immediate actionable solution would be to draft laws that prevent outsourcing of jobs for less than $25 an hour (or some figure) and a signed declaration by the displaced worker indicating they do not want this job at that rate. This should be audited with penalties for non-compliance.
That is, the displaced worker gets first dibs on the job to be outsourced at a lower rate. For many Americans, earning a less is better than not earning at all.
3
Don unto others what u want them to do unto u.
2
Many readers miss the point - which is that ALL of us are expendable. It is not a question of enhancing your skill set, being creative, or otherwise competing.
1. As the NYT and other media outlets have reported, the high-skill, high-education jobs are also migrating. For instance, American law school graduates no longer have the job path that began with doing grunt work for the partners; that work is being done by lawyers and paralegals in India. You, the client, are paying American prices for Indian work and your attorney is pocketing the difference. STEM will not save you; Indians can learn maths too.
2. Corporations want to charge American prices and pay workers Indian wages - or lower, as India is now losing the lowest-level jobs to the countries for which wages are a handful of rice and benefits are not being beaten when the UN workers are looking. I need not point out that turning the US into a nation of too few producers and too many consumers is unsustainable. The race to the bottom ends inevitably in a crash, not just for us but for the job-taking nations.
3. Offshoring works fine as long as you don't care about the quality of the good or service. The corporate attitude now is 'you'll swallow whatever we dish out, because every company's dishing out the same and you can't afford better.' Ask anyone who's dealt with an overseas call centre, tech support, etc. Halfway around the world; they don't even give you a real name; no accountability, no quality control.
1. As the NYT and other media outlets have reported, the high-skill, high-education jobs are also migrating. For instance, American law school graduates no longer have the job path that began with doing grunt work for the partners; that work is being done by lawyers and paralegals in India. You, the client, are paying American prices for Indian work and your attorney is pocketing the difference. STEM will not save you; Indians can learn maths too.
2. Corporations want to charge American prices and pay workers Indian wages - or lower, as India is now losing the lowest-level jobs to the countries for which wages are a handful of rice and benefits are not being beaten when the UN workers are looking. I need not point out that turning the US into a nation of too few producers and too many consumers is unsustainable. The race to the bottom ends inevitably in a crash, not just for us but for the job-taking nations.
3. Offshoring works fine as long as you don't care about the quality of the good or service. The corporate attitude now is 'you'll swallow whatever we dish out, because every company's dishing out the same and you can't afford better.' Ask anyone who's dealt with an overseas call centre, tech support, etc. Halfway around the world; they don't even give you a real name; no accountability, no quality control.
1
I've heard that some news organizations have experimented with outsourcing local reporting to India. For example, journalists there would watch a local school board or city council meeting via the internet, write up the happenings and file a story for a lot less $$$ than their American counterparts would demand.
1
Can you say "Union?" Union contracts can prevent all of that and at the same time create joint labor-management strategies to cut costs and improve quality. It has been done before, in this country. This is win-win. The alternative, described in this article, is like making people dig their own graves. What is needed is a balance, with neither labor nor management holding all of the cards. Then we get growth that is in the national interest.
3
liberals do not understand this. They do not know how business works.
I think this is less about H-1B and far more about the lack of understanding by most of us about economic globalization, which has been a part of U. S. business practices for decades. NAFTA, TAFTA, and a host of other acronym-trade agreements have brought us to where we are, today. What I think is most important about this whole discussion is that no one - not U. S. Presidents, Executives from companies that outsource product creation and service delivery to far away countries have been honest enough to say the something like this, to factory workers and middle-management types: "You will never get your high-paying jobs back, as long as our revenue streams and profit objectives can be better accomplished by doing our work, elsewhere!" And no one will promise the otherwise. We American people need to reconcile ourselves to that most uncomfortable fact.
1
No, we need to fight and vote against it.
I think this is less about H-1B and far more about the lack of understanding by most of us about economic globalization, which has been a part of U. S. business practices for decades. NAFTA, TAFTA, and a host of other acronym-trade agreements have brought us to where we are, today. What I think is most important about this whole discussion is that no one - not U. S. Presidents, Executives from companies that outsource product creation and service delivery to far away countries have been honest enough to say the something like this, to factory workers and middle-management types: "You will never get your high-paying jobs back, as long as our revenue streams and profit objectives can be better accomplished by doing our work, elsewhere!" And no one will promise the otherwise. We American people need to reconcile ourselves to that most uncomfortable fact.
1
No, we need to fight and vote against it.
I agree Jim, it is unfortunate that these companies don't see their own demise coming. Who will be left, that will able to afford the products that these companies are offering, once the middle class is gone? The one percenters? I don't know any executive in the right mind that says, oh no, I don't want 70 or 80 percent of consumers, just give me one percent.
If we are not careful we will end up like Brazil, where they have 90 percent of the country poor and 10 percent wealthy. So much for America the giant...
If we are not careful we will end up like Brazil, where they have 90 percent of the country poor and 10 percent wealthy. So much for America the giant...
2
Forget about legit work visas, the Television and Film industry has been "charmed" by British & Austrailian Directors and crews that travel to the US on tourist Visas because of the short duration of many projects. While it used to be a rarity to find anyone who was not a US citizen working in media due to the massive supply of qualified domestic talent, now many of the highest paid jobs go to "tourists" who do not pay tax or even apply for a work visa, they simply lie to customs officials and say they are in the US for travel.
1
Now that corporate greed has hollowed out the manufacturing base in the US, it looks like it's moving up the ladder with its insatiable lust for ever increasing profits, regardless of the cost and detriment to the American people.
Business CEO's and executives must be the most short-sighted people on earth. As long as next quarter's profits tick upward a bit, who cares what sacrifices must be made here and now? Business executives strike me as the kind of people who would sell the roof off of their houses in the summer, because, hey the weather's just fine right now!
Another commenter mentioned the chilling effect this has upon American students thinking of entering the STEM field. Do executives, and their airhead puppets in politics, not realize that hollowing out our economic foundations, first with manufacturing, and now against some of our brightest and most innovate minds, is only a recipe for disaster down the road?
It looks like we have a new company to boycott. But what we must really boycott is the mentality among our elected officials - all Republicans, but most Democrats, too- that the free market, globalization, and de-regulation must be allowed to run roughshod over all of us, regardless of what it does to our quality of life. Every single politician in the upcoming elections who spouts off any more of that nonsense should be kicked out of office with very sharp-toed shoes, at the Executive, Congressional, and Local level.
Business CEO's and executives must be the most short-sighted people on earth. As long as next quarter's profits tick upward a bit, who cares what sacrifices must be made here and now? Business executives strike me as the kind of people who would sell the roof off of their houses in the summer, because, hey the weather's just fine right now!
Another commenter mentioned the chilling effect this has upon American students thinking of entering the STEM field. Do executives, and their airhead puppets in politics, not realize that hollowing out our economic foundations, first with manufacturing, and now against some of our brightest and most innovate minds, is only a recipe for disaster down the road?
It looks like we have a new company to boycott. But what we must really boycott is the mentality among our elected officials - all Republicans, but most Democrats, too- that the free market, globalization, and de-regulation must be allowed to run roughshod over all of us, regardless of what it does to our quality of life. Every single politician in the upcoming elections who spouts off any more of that nonsense should be kicked out of office with very sharp-toed shoes, at the Executive, Congressional, and Local level.
4
Companies have been doing this for decades. I remember reading news stories and hearing talk about this in the '80s.
2
There is nothing new here. This has been going on for years. Contrary to what right wing politicians say, companies are not in business to create jobs in the United States. They are in business to make money.
5
Do they wonder at all how Americans are going to afford the junk they sell, when all the jobs have gone to China and India?
7
All talk about corporations doing it. Why don't people dig deeper and look at the problem itself? MBA program costs keep escalating every day, I don't know out of where! Class sizes are increasing per day then isn't cost supposed to go down? The professors aren't getting money, then who is getting all of that? These MBA grads with shiny shoes, flashing degrees are taught to cut costs using outsourcing. I personally listened to multiple MBA groups pitch their ideas to venture capitalists and all of them wanted to outsource manufacturing. Without an MBA you can't become a company executive. When you teach MBA guys to behave like that in school, what are you going to get in the end? These executives aren't crawling out of woodwork, they are being groomed in your backyard. When will Americans understand that the crooked capitalistic attitude to game the system, find loopholes is being spawned in the very classrooms that are supposed to uphold morals and ethics.
3
We all know how wonderful IT from India is... we have been on the phone for hours trying to get our internet running, etc. They talk to you by reading rote messages and it is so painful and slow. I am sure those companies will be so much more efficient getting low paid people to perform those crucial IT and accounting functions... yeah sure. And forget about having your data protected. Those CEOs, they get big bucks for short term thinking... and the company goes down in flames or gets sold off with big stock options for all those at the top only to be gutted by the incoming group. This is just stupid. The rich are running everything into the ground.
5
Maybe I am off base here but isn't this what the Big 3 Auto makers did with Japanese "visitors" in the 50's?
Unfortunately can't have US Reserve currency and protectionism simultaneously. To maintain reserve currency status, US economy has to, by design, allow other countries to earn our precious dollars so that they can then buy essentials such as oil.
If the US were to attempt to protect jobs, then the rest of the world would be forced to revert to bi-lateral trading arrangements in their mutual currencies. But, I suspect that US prefers US dollar be used in international trade (hence the reserve currency status) as it is hugely more valuable than saving job loss. So, these kinds of articles only misinform (as Mark Twain is suspected to have said, If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed)
If the US were to attempt to protect jobs, then the rest of the world would be forced to revert to bi-lateral trading arrangements in their mutual currencies. But, I suspect that US prefers US dollar be used in international trade (hence the reserve currency status) as it is hugely more valuable than saving job loss. So, these kinds of articles only misinform (as Mark Twain is suspected to have said, If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed)
2
I agree Jim, it is unfortunate that these companies don't see their own demise coming. Who will be left, that will able to afford the products that these companies are offering, once the middle class is gone? The one percenters? I don't know any executive in the right mind that says, oh no, I don't want 70 or 80 percent of consumers, just give me one percent.
If we are not careful we will end up like Brazil, where they have 90 percent of the country poor and 10 percent wealthy. So much for America the giant...
If we are not careful we will end up like Brazil, where they have 90 percent of the country poor and 10 percent wealthy. So much for America the giant...
4
Forget about legit work visas, the Television and Film industry has been "charmed" by British & Austrailian Directors and crews that travel to the US on tourist Visas because of the short duration of many projects. While it used to be a rarity to find anyone who was not a US citizen working in media due to the massive supply of qualified domestic talent, now many of the highest paid jobs go to "tourists" who do not pay tax or even apply for a work visa, they simply lie to customs officials and say they are in the US for travel.
3
Now that corporate greed has hollowed out the manufacturing base in the US, it looks like it's moving up the ladder with its insatiable lust for ever increasing profits, regardless of the cost and detriment to the American people.
Business CEO's and executives must be the most short-sighted people on earth. As long as next quarter's profits tick upward a bit, who cares what sacrifices must be made here and now? Business executives strike me as the kind of people who would sell the roof off of their houses in the summer, because, hey the weather's just fine right now!
Another commenter mentioned the chilling effect this has upon American students thinking of entering the STEM field. Do executives, and their airhead puppets in politics, not realize that hollowing out our economic foundations, first with manufacturing, and now against some of our brightest and most innovate minds, is only a recipe for disaster down the road?
It looks like we have a new company to boycott. But what we must really boycott is the mentality among our elected officials - all Republicans, but most Democrats, too- that the free market, globalization, and de-regulation must be allowed to run roughshod over all of us, regardless of what it does to our quality of life. Every single politician in the upcoming elections who spouts off any more of that nonsense should be kicked out of office with very sharp-toed shoes, at the Executive, Congressional, and Local level.
Business CEO's and executives must be the most short-sighted people on earth. As long as next quarter's profits tick upward a bit, who cares what sacrifices must be made here and now? Business executives strike me as the kind of people who would sell the roof off of their houses in the summer, because, hey the weather's just fine right now!
Another commenter mentioned the chilling effect this has upon American students thinking of entering the STEM field. Do executives, and their airhead puppets in politics, not realize that hollowing out our economic foundations, first with manufacturing, and now against some of our brightest and most innovate minds, is only a recipe for disaster down the road?
It looks like we have a new company to boycott. But what we must really boycott is the mentality among our elected officials - all Republicans, but most Democrats, too- that the free market, globalization, and de-regulation must be allowed to run roughshod over all of us, regardless of what it does to our quality of life. Every single politician in the upcoming elections who spouts off any more of that nonsense should be kicked out of office with very sharp-toed shoes, at the Executive, Congressional, and Local level.
3
Companies have been doing this for decades. I remember reading news stories and hearing talk about this in the '80s.
There is nothing new here. This has been going on for years. Contrary to what right wing politicians say, companies are not in business to create jobs in the United States. They are in business to make money.
1
Do they wonder at all how Americans are going to afford the junk they sell, when all the jobs have gone to China and India?
3
Do they care, when there are billions of up-and-coming consumers in China and India?
1
All talk about corporations doing it. Why don't people dig deeper and look at the problem itself? MBA program costs keep escalating every day, I don't know out of where! Class sizes are increasing per day then isn't cost supposed to go down? The professors aren't getting money, then who is getting all of that? These MBA grads with shiny shoes, flashing degrees are taught to cut costs using outsourcing. I personally listened to multiple MBA groups pitch their ideas to venture capitalists and all of them wanted to outsource manufacturing. Without an MBA you can't become a company executive. When you teach MBA guys to behave like that in school, what are you going to get in the end? These executives aren't crawling out of woodwork, they are being groomed in your backyard. When will Americans understand that the crooked capitalistic attitude to game the system, find loopholes is being spawned in the very classrooms that are supposed to uphold morals and ethics.
2
business schools have always been at the bottom of the pit ethically. Years ago (pre-80s) business school students and graduates were looked down upon, to a large degree because of this. Starting in the 80s the opposite happened. Is it the business schools to blame or society at large (and shift of values since then)?
1
We all know how wonderful IT from India is... we have been on the phone for hours trying to get our internet running, etc. They talk to you by reading rote messages and it is so painful and slow. I am sure those companies will be so much more efficient getting low paid people to perform those crucial IT and accounting functions... yeah sure. And forget about having your data protected. Those CEOs, they get big bucks for short term thinking... and the company goes down in flames or gets sold off with big stock options for all those at the top only to be gutted by the incoming group. This is just stupid. The rich are running everything into the ground.
7
Maybe I am off base here but isn't this what the Big 3 Auto makers did with Japanese "visitors" in the 50's?
1
Unfortunately can't have US Reserve currency and protectionism simultaneously. To maintain reserve currency status, US economy has to, by design, allow other countries to earn our precious dollars so that they can then buy essentials such as oil.
If the US were to attempt to protect jobs, then the rest of the world would be forced to revert to bi-lateral trading arrangements in their mutual currencies. But, I suspect that US prefers US dollar be used in international trade (hence the reserve currency status) as it is hugely more valuable than saving job loss. So, these kinds of articles only misinform (as Mark Twain is suspected to have said, If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed)
If the US were to attempt to protect jobs, then the rest of the world would be forced to revert to bi-lateral trading arrangements in their mutual currencies. But, I suspect that US prefers US dollar be used in international trade (hence the reserve currency status) as it is hugely more valuable than saving job loss. So, these kinds of articles only misinform (as Mark Twain is suspected to have said, If you don't read the newspaper, you're uninformed. If you read the newspaper, you're misinformed)
2
American jobs being shipped overseas hit a tree and misses the forest.
To begin with, IT driven activities are the main source of growth and wealth creation in this new century. These well paid jobs can be performed anywhere in the world by a mathematically trained workforce as in the case of India.
America will continue to export well paid IT jobs for two interconnected reasons.
First, the American economy is driven by market forces. As a result, US corporations are free to seek profits globally and allocate resources --particularly labor -- anywhere in the global economy. Second, Asian workers are better trained and less costly than their American counterparts.
The American political system face a conundrum. As mentioned in this piece, well paid middle class jobs continue to be shipped overseas. At the same time, the FED's monetary policy is guided by 20th century full employment concept. The question is: what kind of jobs are being created from now on?
To begin with, IT driven activities are the main source of growth and wealth creation in this new century. These well paid jobs can be performed anywhere in the world by a mathematically trained workforce as in the case of India.
America will continue to export well paid IT jobs for two interconnected reasons.
First, the American economy is driven by market forces. As a result, US corporations are free to seek profits globally and allocate resources --particularly labor -- anywhere in the global economy. Second, Asian workers are better trained and less costly than their American counterparts.
The American political system face a conundrum. As mentioned in this piece, well paid middle class jobs continue to be shipped overseas. At the same time, the FED's monetary policy is guided by 20th century full employment concept. The question is: what kind of jobs are being created from now on?
2
My fear is that we are soon going to find out what kind of jobs fed monetary policy created just as we did in 2000 and 2008.
American jobs being shipped overseas hit a tree and misses the forest.
To begin with, IT driven activities are the main source of growth and wealth creation in this new century. These well paid jobs can be performed anywhere in the world by a mathematically trained workforce as in the case of India.
America will continue to export well paid IT jobs for two interconnected reasons.
First, the American economy is driven by market forces. As a result, US corporations are free to seek profits globally and allocate resources --particularly labor -- anywhere in the global economy. Second, Asian workers are better trained and less costly than their American counterparts.
The American political system face a conundrum. As mentioned in this piece, well paid middle class jobs continue to be shipped overseas. At the same time, the FED's monetary policy is guided by 20th century full employment concept. The question is: what kind of jobs are being created from now on?
To begin with, IT driven activities are the main source of growth and wealth creation in this new century. These well paid jobs can be performed anywhere in the world by a mathematically trained workforce as in the case of India.
America will continue to export well paid IT jobs for two interconnected reasons.
First, the American economy is driven by market forces. As a result, US corporations are free to seek profits globally and allocate resources --particularly labor -- anywhere in the global economy. Second, Asian workers are better trained and less costly than their American counterparts.
The American political system face a conundrum. As mentioned in this piece, well paid middle class jobs continue to be shipped overseas. At the same time, the FED's monetary policy is guided by 20th century full employment concept. The question is: what kind of jobs are being created from now on?
3
My fear is that we are soon going to find out what kind of jobs fed monetary policy created just as we did in 2000 and 2008.
1
"Second, Asian workers are better trained"
you obviously never worked in IT.
you obviously never worked in IT.
1
Employees who are whipped into a frenzy over fear of losing their jobs, will not be good employees. A responsible company in America has a civic and social mandate as well as a need to maintain profitability. More backwards-looking CEO's are needed.
1
Employees who are whipped into a frenzy over fear of losing their jobs, will not be good employees. A responsible company in America has a civic and social mandate as well as a need to maintain profitability. More backwards-looking CEO's are needed.
2
I am happy if highly skilled people immigrate to the U.S. Instead, what we appear to have is a goofy system that allows low skilled people to illegally walk into the country, that keeps truly highly skilled people out, and allows the H1b system be abused. Imagine how you would feel if a company brought in a so called highly skilled expert who follows your every move ( even to the rest room) and sends information to India to someone who can learn to do your job. Our goofy politicians will not address the issue. The NYT and WSJ seem to like the current system. It allows the Times to dwell on the impact on the immigrants and ignore the impact on those who are here. It allows the WSJ to ignore the impact on those who live here in the name of efficiency and low wages. We need a real discussion!
1
The thoughts represented in the article, don't really ask the question: are these good jobs? They're more often not. Is it better if some very poor 3-rd world person gets process-trained so that that society has a shot as coming up to modern-standards of living and catches up esp wrt to societal efficiency gains that modern corporations represent and those cultures severely lack. Ultimately the developing world is soon going to be the worlds greatest market opportunity - not only for its own people - for everyone - at least in the 10-20 yr horizon.
If you were to agree with m/s andreessen and m/s diamandis, these jobs will soon be done by robots. they will be in the "cloud"; this will be the same predicament for those same workers in a few years, in those countries.
If society keeps improving, everyone, everywhere will work-less robotic jobs, be more creative and have a higher standard of life fulfillment.
i.e. everyone chill out - there's before abundancy is realized, there's water on mars.
If you were to agree with m/s andreessen and m/s diamandis, these jobs will soon be done by robots. they will be in the "cloud"; this will be the same predicament for those same workers in a few years, in those countries.
If society keeps improving, everyone, everywhere will work-less robotic jobs, be more creative and have a higher standard of life fulfillment.
i.e. everyone chill out - there's before abundancy is realized, there's water on mars.
The pride on that 26 year old New York Life employee who resigned instead of training the Accenture visa workers is nothing short of amazing.
7
This is MRS. Abuse of this visa program should raise concerns to discontinue it immediately. This country does not need any more impoverishment by greedy companies sending jobs outside of this country's boarders. I believe strongly that they should be taxed greater for doing so because the people in this nation are going to need every tax dime for basic assistance due to the lack of jobs. Is this a subtle attempt to create a total welfare nation with a new government order?
3
Thank God I'm retired. Today's workplace is a disaster.
4
I am an accountant. I have utilized offshore accounting services for some data entry. In my experienc, the "cost differential" in wages is quickly erased by time and energy lost on communications issues. Anyone who has had to call customer service for Anthem, T-Mobile, etc knows the awful truth of outsourced services; they dont work.
Locally, Procter & Gamble (P&G) keeps shipping more and more of its functions out of this country. It has stated a goal of being a "Marketing" company with all else done elsewhere. P&G sold its IT department to Hewlett-Packard who then shipped the jobs to India. P&G outsourced much of its office operations to Costa Rica. Substantial cost reductions were realized and the stock went up - for a little while.
Meanwhile, P&G 's US sales growth is dismal. More and more people in the US are buying Wal-mart diapers and Kroger detergent after losing their middle class jobs. Kroger's portion of sales from its store brands has increased year after year for over a decade. Kroger stock is flying; P&G is flailing.
Ironically, you cannot grow a business by cutting costs. Without increasing sales, you ultimately will become a "legacy" business. No amount of marketing can overcome the reality of millions of Americans losing income due to outsourcing. Companies like P&G will find (not learn) that if you really commit to outsourcing; ultimately you outsource your sales and business.
Locally, Procter & Gamble (P&G) keeps shipping more and more of its functions out of this country. It has stated a goal of being a "Marketing" company with all else done elsewhere. P&G sold its IT department to Hewlett-Packard who then shipped the jobs to India. P&G outsourced much of its office operations to Costa Rica. Substantial cost reductions were realized and the stock went up - for a little while.
Meanwhile, P&G 's US sales growth is dismal. More and more people in the US are buying Wal-mart diapers and Kroger detergent after losing their middle class jobs. Kroger's portion of sales from its store brands has increased year after year for over a decade. Kroger stock is flying; P&G is flailing.
Ironically, you cannot grow a business by cutting costs. Without increasing sales, you ultimately will become a "legacy" business. No amount of marketing can overcome the reality of millions of Americans losing income due to outsourcing. Companies like P&G will find (not learn) that if you really commit to outsourcing; ultimately you outsource your sales and business.
4
Friedman said it is a "Flat World" - we may not like this, but it is the reality of globalization. One important aspect of globalization - we can not judge the system by local effect - we have to look to the global impact, even in national boundary. No doubt, by cost optimizing the business process, Toys R Us will increase productivity and that may increase its global growth and need more manpower. The increased manpower may be significantly higher than the few positions lost in restructuring business process. It will be harmful for the government to micromanage these business decisions. Let us keep our focus on globalization and prepare our manpower to support this.
Communist countries tried to do central planning ( US it is more regulation) and lost the agility and intelligence of open system and in the process lost business efficiency - the result is the destruction of that economic system. Let us not try to mourn for a failed system.
Communist countries tried to do central planning ( US it is more regulation) and lost the agility and intelligence of open system and in the process lost business efficiency - the result is the destruction of that economic system. Let us not try to mourn for a failed system.
2
It is interconnected global world, sometime someone at some place will gain and sometime someone at some place will loose.
Read one more article at WSJ.
"Boeing to Start Delivering Military Helicopters to India in 2018
Contracts signed on $3 billion deal for 37 helicopters"
Now start thinking about how you are going to fit in new global village called Earth and get back to work.
Read one more article at WSJ.
"Boeing to Start Delivering Military Helicopters to India in 2018
Contracts signed on $3 billion deal for 37 helicopters"
Now start thinking about how you are going to fit in new global village called Earth and get back to work.
1
I am happy if highly skilled people immigrate to the U.S. Instead, what we appear to have is a goofy system that allows low skilled people to illegally walk into the country, that keeps truly highly skilled people out, and allows the H1b system be abused. Imagine how you would feel if a company brought in a so called highly skilled expert who follows your every move ( even to the rest room) and sends information to India to someone who can learn to do your job. Our goofy politicians will not address the issue. The NYT and WSJ seem to like the current system. It allows the Times to dwell on the impact on the immigrants and ignore the impact on those who are here. It allows the WSJ to ignore the impact on those who live here in the name of efficiency and low wages. We need a real discussion!
1
The thoughts represented in the article, don't really ask the question: are these good jobs? They're more often not. Is it better if some very poor 3-rd world person gets process-trained so that that society has a shot as coming up to modern-standards of living and catches up esp wrt to societal efficiency gains that modern corporations represent and those cultures severely lack. Ultimately the developing world is soon going to be the worlds greatest market opportunity - not only for its own people - for everyone - at least in the 10-20 yr horizon.
If you were to agree with m/s andreessen and m/s diamandis, these jobs will soon be done by robots. they will be in the "cloud"; this will be the same predicament for those same workers in a few years, in those countries.
If society keeps improving, everyone, everywhere will work-less robotic jobs, be more creative and have a higher standard of life fulfillment.
i.e. everyone chill out - there's before abundancy is realized, there's water on mars.
If you were to agree with m/s andreessen and m/s diamandis, these jobs will soon be done by robots. they will be in the "cloud"; this will be the same predicament for those same workers in a few years, in those countries.
If society keeps improving, everyone, everywhere will work-less robotic jobs, be more creative and have a higher standard of life fulfillment.
i.e. everyone chill out - there's before abundancy is realized, there's water on mars.
1
so we will work less due to robots? What is going to happen? Are the owners of capital just going to give you expensive robots free of charge? All this sounds great to capital/robot owners but those who are not are really going to get the shaft. This is what will really happen.
The pride on that 26 year old New York Life employee who resigned instead of training the Accenture visa workers is nothing short of amazing.
10
This is MRS. Abuse of this visa program should raise concerns to discontinue it immediately. This country does not need any more impoverishment by greedy companies sending jobs outside of this country's boarders. I believe strongly that they should be taxed greater for doing so because the people in this nation are going to need every tax dime for basic assistance due to the lack of jobs. Is this a subtle attempt to create a total welfare nation with a new government order?
3
Thank God I'm retired. Today's workplace is a disaster.
4
I am really glad I only ahve a few years to go. Don't think I could do it for 20 some years.
I am an accountant. I have utilized offshore accounting services for some data entry. In my experienc, the "cost differential" in wages is quickly erased by time and energy lost on communications issues. Anyone who has had to call customer service for Anthem, T-Mobile, etc knows the awful truth of outsourced services; they dont work.
Locally, Procter & Gamble (P&G) keeps shipping more and more of its functions out of this country. It has stated a goal of being a "Marketing" company with all else done elsewhere. P&G sold its IT department to Hewlett-Packard who then shipped the jobs to India. P&G outsourced much of its office operations to Costa Rica. Substantial cost reductions were realized and the stock went up - for a little while.
Meanwhile, P&G 's US sales growth is dismal. More and more people in the US are buying Wal-mart diapers and Kroger detergent after losing their middle class jobs. Kroger's portion of sales from its store brands has increased year after year for over a decade. Kroger stock is flying; P&G is flailing.
Ironically, you cannot grow a business by cutting costs. Without increasing sales, you ultimately will become a "legacy" business. No amount of marketing can overcome the reality of millions of Americans losing income due to outsourcing. Companies like P&G will find (not learn) that if you really commit to outsourcing; ultimately you outsource your sales and business.
Locally, Procter & Gamble (P&G) keeps shipping more and more of its functions out of this country. It has stated a goal of being a "Marketing" company with all else done elsewhere. P&G sold its IT department to Hewlett-Packard who then shipped the jobs to India. P&G outsourced much of its office operations to Costa Rica. Substantial cost reductions were realized and the stock went up - for a little while.
Meanwhile, P&G 's US sales growth is dismal. More and more people in the US are buying Wal-mart diapers and Kroger detergent after losing their middle class jobs. Kroger's portion of sales from its store brands has increased year after year for over a decade. Kroger stock is flying; P&G is flailing.
Ironically, you cannot grow a business by cutting costs. Without increasing sales, you ultimately will become a "legacy" business. No amount of marketing can overcome the reality of millions of Americans losing income due to outsourcing. Companies like P&G will find (not learn) that if you really commit to outsourcing; ultimately you outsource your sales and business.
6
Friedman said it is a "Flat World" - we may not like this, but it is the reality of globalization. One important aspect of globalization - we can not judge the system by local effect - we have to look to the global impact, even in national boundary. No doubt, by cost optimizing the business process, Toys R Us will increase productivity and that may increase its global growth and need more manpower. The increased manpower may be significantly higher than the few positions lost in restructuring business process. It will be harmful for the government to micromanage these business decisions. Let us keep our focus on globalization and prepare our manpower to support this.
Communist countries tried to do central planning ( US it is more regulation) and lost the agility and intelligence of open system and in the process lost business efficiency - the result is the destruction of that economic system. Let us not try to mourn for a failed system.
Communist countries tried to do central planning ( US it is more regulation) and lost the agility and intelligence of open system and in the process lost business efficiency - the result is the destruction of that economic system. Let us not try to mourn for a failed system.
3
It is interconnected global world, sometime someone at some place will gain and sometime someone at some place will loose.
Read one more article at WSJ.
"Boeing to Start Delivering Military Helicopters to India in 2018
Contracts signed on $3 billion deal for 37 helicopters"
Now start thinking about how you are going to fit in new global village called Earth and get back to work.
Read one more article at WSJ.
"Boeing to Start Delivering Military Helicopters to India in 2018
Contracts signed on $3 billion deal for 37 helicopters"
Now start thinking about how you are going to fit in new global village called Earth and get back to work.
2
India is the largest Arms importer in the world and the US the largest Arms exporter. The Pentagon maintains a special cell, the only one of its kind, to sell military hardware to India. The money always makes a round trip, though there may be individual winners and losers.
As a scientist, i work with many colleagues who have at one time been here on H-1B visas. These are highly talented and highly skilled people, most from India and China, who are helping to grow industries in the U.S. exactly as intended by the law, and as long as American students can make more money with an MBA than with a science PhD or engineering degree, we will not be able to fill those roles without foreign scientists and engineers. The problem is not the H-1B program but sloppiness in how the visas are awarded. If INS does not have the resources to adequately monitor who is getting visas, they should charge more for the visas to fund their efforts.
5
As a scientist, i work with many colleagues who have at one time been here on H-1B visas. These are highly talented and highly skilled people, most from India and China, who are helping to grow industries in the U.S. exactly as intended by the law, and as long as American students can make more money with an MBA than with a science PhD or engineering degree, we will not be able to fill those roles without foreign scientists and engineers. The problem is not the H-1B program but sloppiness in how the visas are awarded. If INS does not have the resources to adequately monitor who is getting visas, they should charge more for the visas to fund their efforts.
6
I cant help but ask, how is abusing the H1B visa different from our relatively open borders? In both cases, American jobs are being displaced by people willing to work for peanuts.
I guess it all has to do with whose ox is gored.
I guess it all has to do with whose ox is gored.
4
I cant help but ask, how is abusing the H1B visa different from our relatively open borders? In both cases, American jobs are being displaced by people willing to work for peanuts.
I guess it all has to do with whose ox is gored.
I guess it all has to do with whose ox is gored.
6
I haven't heard of American agricultural laborers being told to train their replacements. Those wide swaths of willing but unemployed native-born pickers seem to be very hard to find.
2
This is the way of American corporatations - slaves to the almighty dollar and Waall St with no regard to the impact on people's lives. Who will buy the products if no one is working?
7
Are we stupid, or what? Imagine having to train your foreign replacement so that our citizens can be unemployed and India benefits! Done with Toys "R" Us forever. Thank you for this very informative article.
8
This is the way of American corporatations - slaves to the almighty dollar and Waall St with no regard to the impact on people's lives. Who will buy the products if no one is working?
7
Are we stupid, or what? Imagine having to train your foreign replacement so that our citizens can be unemployed and India benefits! Done with Toys "R" Us forever. Thank you for this very informative article.
8
Others have suggested that companies should pay a hefty fee to hire H1-B visa workers. I agree. And I would go a step further: that money should be earmarked to pay for specialized training in the US, to help get Americans qualified to do the jobs that these companies claim they need foreigners for. It's a logical thing, and it kills two birds with one stone. It's just a shame that we need to do something like this. It's a shame that some large corporations, like Toys R Us, would rather hire new workers than train existing employees to do their jobs better.
2
All of these workers were qualified for the jobs, they just cost too much money. They aren't doing the 'jobs better' overseas, they're doing it cheaper. That's it.
I see several comments about increasing funding for Education. This is not about education, it is about cost and profit.
If all the American laid-off workers would accept a 50% to 75% reduction in wages, I suspect these companies would be more than happy to let them keep their jobs.
If all the American laid-off workers would accept a 50% to 75% reduction in wages, I suspect these companies would be more than happy to let them keep their jobs.
6
Good reporting. Keep at it until all US companies abusing this law are exposed. This has got to stop before it gets to the point where so many companies are doing it they'll have more lobbying power in Washington.
5
I'm surprised that people are surprised. This has been going on for years. At the current rate, soon we will all be Perma-Temps.
8
Outsourcing is one of the corporate trends that have undermined the middle class in order to enrich mediocre corporate executives. It has very little to do with skilled labor shortages in the US & everything to do with corporate executive compensation.
Why is this true?
For starters, most American corporations are run by executives who are at best, stewards of going concerns. Again, with the exception of such people as Gates, most executives never invest any of their own money into their company. While they claim they commit their intellectual capital and forgo other opportunities, the reality is that their personal stake in the company is limited to their incentive compensation.
Most incentive compensation is stock awards granted to top executives for meeting profit, EPS and cash generation goals. Sounds good, but these are metrics that are routinely manipulated by top mgt in the following way:
1. Announce a restructuring to lay off x,000 people. While a one time charge will reduce earnings, street analysts and mgt will point to the on-going reduced labor cost.
2. Hire an outsourcing firm to replace the laid off workers. Use the method described in Ms Preston's article. The net of 1 & 2 usually results in short term profit gain, post RIF, and cash generation.
3. Use the cash generated by the layoffs to buy back shares. This increases EPS since the number of shares are reduced.
Hence, top management wins and the middle class gets screwed.
Why is this true?
For starters, most American corporations are run by executives who are at best, stewards of going concerns. Again, with the exception of such people as Gates, most executives never invest any of their own money into their company. While they claim they commit their intellectual capital and forgo other opportunities, the reality is that their personal stake in the company is limited to their incentive compensation.
Most incentive compensation is stock awards granted to top executives for meeting profit, EPS and cash generation goals. Sounds good, but these are metrics that are routinely manipulated by top mgt in the following way:
1. Announce a restructuring to lay off x,000 people. While a one time charge will reduce earnings, street analysts and mgt will point to the on-going reduced labor cost.
2. Hire an outsourcing firm to replace the laid off workers. Use the method described in Ms Preston's article. The net of 1 & 2 usually results in short term profit gain, post RIF, and cash generation.
3. Use the cash generated by the layoffs to buy back shares. This increases EPS since the number of shares are reduced.
Hence, top management wins and the middle class gets screwed.
3
Any company doing this should be fined a million dollars a day and 2 million a day for every job shipped overseas.
6
Others have suggested that companies should pay a hefty fee to hire H1-B visa workers. I agree. And I would go a step further: that money should be earmarked to pay for specialized training in the US, to help get Americans qualified to do the jobs that these companies claim they need foreigners for. It's a logical thing, and it kills two birds with one stone. It's just a shame that we need to do something like this. It's a shame that some large corporations, like Toys R Us, would rather hire new workers than train existing employees to do their jobs better.
2
All of these workers were qualified for the jobs, they just cost too much money. They aren't doing the 'jobs better' overseas, they're doing it cheaper. That's it.
2
I see several comments about increasing funding for Education. This is not about education, it is about cost and profit.
If all the American laid-off workers would accept a 50% to 75% reduction in wages, I suspect these companies would be more than happy to let them keep their jobs.
If all the American laid-off workers would accept a 50% to 75% reduction in wages, I suspect these companies would be more than happy to let them keep their jobs.
6
feel free to make that offer first.
Good reporting. Keep at it until all US companies abusing this law are exposed. This has got to stop before it gets to the point where so many companies are doing it they'll have more lobbying power in Washington.
4
I'm surprised that people are surprised. This has been going on for years. At the current rate, soon we will all be Perma-Temps.
7
Outsourcing is one of the corporate trends that have undermined the middle class in order to enrich mediocre corporate executives. It has very little to do with skilled labor shortages in the US & everything to do with corporate executive compensation.
Why is this true?
For starters, most American corporations are run by executives who are at best, stewards of going concerns. Again, with the exception of such people as Gates, most executives never invest any of their own money into their company. While they claim they commit their intellectual capital and forgo other opportunities, the reality is that their personal stake in the company is limited to their incentive compensation.
Most incentive compensation is stock awards granted to top executives for meeting profit, EPS and cash generation goals. Sounds good, but these are metrics that are routinely manipulated by top mgt in the following way:
1. Announce a restructuring to lay off x,000 people. While a one time charge will reduce earnings, street analysts and mgt will point to the on-going reduced labor cost.
2. Hire an outsourcing firm to replace the laid off workers. Use the method described in Ms Preston's article. The net of 1 & 2 usually results in short term profit gain, post RIF, and cash generation.
3. Use the cash generated by the layoffs to buy back shares. This increases EPS since the number of shares are reduced.
Hence, top management wins and the middle class gets screwed.
Why is this true?
For starters, most American corporations are run by executives who are at best, stewards of going concerns. Again, with the exception of such people as Gates, most executives never invest any of their own money into their company. While they claim they commit their intellectual capital and forgo other opportunities, the reality is that their personal stake in the company is limited to their incentive compensation.
Most incentive compensation is stock awards granted to top executives for meeting profit, EPS and cash generation goals. Sounds good, but these are metrics that are routinely manipulated by top mgt in the following way:
1. Announce a restructuring to lay off x,000 people. While a one time charge will reduce earnings, street analysts and mgt will point to the on-going reduced labor cost.
2. Hire an outsourcing firm to replace the laid off workers. Use the method described in Ms Preston's article. The net of 1 & 2 usually results in short term profit gain, post RIF, and cash generation.
3. Use the cash generated by the layoffs to buy back shares. This increases EPS since the number of shares are reduced.
Hence, top management wins and the middle class gets screwed.
4
Any company doing this should be fined a million dollars a day and 2 million a day for every job shipped overseas.
6
There are too many to count.
1
This is hardly a new trend. It started happening in the mid-90s. large companies started in IT, bringing in swarms of H1B contractors onsite from Indian firms like TCS, at hourly rates far lower than domestic US born contractors. Rates that were also less than hiring more employees. purely a cost cutting play. This led to knowledge transfer to these firms who then moved some of the key onsite resources to India where the rates were even lower. This led to a ramp up of cheap offshore resources with equivalent layoffs in the US. An analysis would show that foreign contracting firms have taken the lions share of H1B visas from the very beginning, meaning that the program has been abused all along.
2
This is hardly a new trend. It started happening in the mid-90s. large companies started in IT, bringing in swarms of H1B contractors onsite from Indian firms like TCS, at hourly rates far lower than domestic US born contractors. Rates that were also less than hiring more employees. purely a cost cutting play. This led to knowledge transfer to these firms who then moved some of the key onsite resources to India where the rates were even lower. This led to a ramp up of cheap offshore resources with equivalent layoffs in the US. An analysis would show that foreign contracting firms have taken the lions share of H1B visas from the very beginning, meaning that the program has been abused all along.
2
The surest way to deprive people of power is to deprive them of money.
So it goes under neofeudalism. Jesus is Lord.
So it goes under neofeudalism. Jesus is Lord.
5
The surest way to deprive people of power is to deprive them of money.
So it goes under neofeudalism. Jesus is Lord.
So it goes under neofeudalism. Jesus is Lord.
4
I don't blame the executives at Toys-R'-Us who are trying their best to compete against the Amazons of the world. They haven't broken any laws and their charge is for increasing the worth of the company — not the workers.
The real problem is two-fold: 1) there are no protections or advocates for loyal workers (those who spend over 10 years at one company); 2) Globalization and PPP (purchasing power parity) dictate that a less expensive person with virtually the same skills wins the job.
The real problem is two-fold: 1) there are no protections or advocates for loyal workers (those who spend over 10 years at one company); 2) Globalization and PPP (purchasing power parity) dictate that a less expensive person with virtually the same skills wins the job.
3
I don't blame the executives at Toys-R'-Us who are trying their best to compete against the Amazons of the world. They haven't broken any laws and their charge is for increasing the worth of the company — not the workers.
The real problem is two-fold: 1) there are no protections or advocates for loyal workers (those who spend over 10 years at one company); 2) Globalization and PPP (purchasing power parity) dictate that a less expensive person with virtually the same skills wins the job.
The real problem is two-fold: 1) there are no protections or advocates for loyal workers (those who spend over 10 years at one company); 2) Globalization and PPP (purchasing power parity) dictate that a less expensive person with virtually the same skills wins the job.
4
If one wants a view of the labor market from one part of the government, go to www.bls.gov
Here is an article on STEM jobs:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-stem-surplus-yes...
"Looking at the STEM labor market, Salzman and colleagues concluded that, for every two students graduating with a U.S. STEM degree, only one is employed in STEM and that 32 percent of computer science graduates not employed in information technology attributed their situation to a lack of available jobs.11 In 2014, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that 74 percent of those who have a bachelor’s degree in a STEM major are not employed in STEM occupations.12"
I have not seen that the Bureau of Labor Statistics allows for an influx of workers on H1-B in estimates of new jobs by occupation.
Many of the engineering jobs (electrical, mechanical engineering for example) are slated to grow at a slower than average rate.
And that apparently does not allow for foreign STEM workers that may fill some of these jobs resulting in fewer openings for the USA's "indigenous workers".
Are we seeing a "great equalization" of labor costs around the world as USA corporations outsource/insource labor and drive wages down?
That is except for wages at the top of the corporate structure.
Here is an article on STEM jobs:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-stem-surplus-yes...
"Looking at the STEM labor market, Salzman and colleagues concluded that, for every two students graduating with a U.S. STEM degree, only one is employed in STEM and that 32 percent of computer science graduates not employed in information technology attributed their situation to a lack of available jobs.11 In 2014, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that 74 percent of those who have a bachelor’s degree in a STEM major are not employed in STEM occupations.12"
I have not seen that the Bureau of Labor Statistics allows for an influx of workers on H1-B in estimates of new jobs by occupation.
Many of the engineering jobs (electrical, mechanical engineering for example) are slated to grow at a slower than average rate.
And that apparently does not allow for foreign STEM workers that may fill some of these jobs resulting in fewer openings for the USA's "indigenous workers".
Are we seeing a "great equalization" of labor costs around the world as USA corporations outsource/insource labor and drive wages down?
That is except for wages at the top of the corporate structure.
9
If one wants a view of the labor market from one part of the government, go to www.bls.gov
Here is an article on STEM jobs:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-stem-surplus-yes...
"Looking at the STEM labor market, Salzman and colleagues concluded that, for every two students graduating with a U.S. STEM degree, only one is employed in STEM and that 32 percent of computer science graduates not employed in information technology attributed their situation to a lack of available jobs.11 In 2014, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that 74 percent of those who have a bachelor’s degree in a STEM major are not employed in STEM occupations.12"
I have not seen that the Bureau of Labor Statistics allows for an influx of workers on H1-B in estimates of new jobs by occupation.
Many of the engineering jobs (electrical, mechanical engineering for example) are slated to grow at a slower than average rate.
And that apparently does not allow for foreign STEM workers that may fill some of these jobs resulting in fewer openings for the USA's "indigenous workers".
Are we seeing a "great equalization" of labor costs around the world as USA corporations outsource/insource labor and drive wages down?
That is except for wages at the top of the corporate structure.
Here is an article on STEM jobs:
http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-stem-surplus-yes...
"Looking at the STEM labor market, Salzman and colleagues concluded that, for every two students graduating with a U.S. STEM degree, only one is employed in STEM and that 32 percent of computer science graduates not employed in information technology attributed their situation to a lack of available jobs.11 In 2014, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that 74 percent of those who have a bachelor’s degree in a STEM major are not employed in STEM occupations.12"
I have not seen that the Bureau of Labor Statistics allows for an influx of workers on H1-B in estimates of new jobs by occupation.
Many of the engineering jobs (electrical, mechanical engineering for example) are slated to grow at a slower than average rate.
And that apparently does not allow for foreign STEM workers that may fill some of these jobs resulting in fewer openings for the USA's "indigenous workers".
Are we seeing a "great equalization" of labor costs around the world as USA corporations outsource/insource labor and drive wages down?
That is except for wages at the top of the corporate structure.
8
What has not been reported on is that outsourcing has destroyed thousands of highly qualified positions for women. There is a huge gender gap for H1Bs, with 70% given to men, 30% to women. In most IT environments I know from my consulting experience, the relation is even more skewed due to cultural restrictions in India that prevent young unmarried women IT workers to work abroad. In the 90s and early 2000s the IT industry had many more (US) women than now. These positions were given to mostly men of H1B visa. I have female consulting colleagues who feel completely out of place now with some projects having >90% men, and even fewer women in leadership positions.
11
What has not been reported on is that outsourcing has destroyed thousands of highly qualified positions for women. There is a huge gender gap for H1Bs, with 70% given to men, 30% to women. In most IT environments I know from my consulting experience, the relation is even more skewed due to cultural restrictions in India that prevent young unmarried women IT workers to work abroad. In the 90s and early 2000s the IT industry had many more (US) women than now. These positions were given to mostly men of H1B visa. I have female consulting colleagues who feel completely out of place now with some projects having >90% men, and even fewer women in leadership positions.
14
Over 20 years ago, I was part of a small team at a global credit card firm to strategize on this pioneering model, never realizing what harmful effects this would have in the US, as well as in the quality of customer service and work in general. In the 2 decades since, Corporate CEOs have lobbied hard for legislation supporting this visa program, squeezed company operations and cost structures under the guise of "becoming lean", the only true beneficiaries are these CEOs themselves, with their compensation skyrocketing disproportionately. Shareholder return expectations are a false starting point for this craze for offshoring and outsourcing - the reality is many CEOs are relying predominantly on cost reductions and rationalization as a way of improving the bottom-line - very few have a clue as to how to improve the top-line - one just has to look at AmEx as a prime example. Teams that could huddle in one room are now spread out globally with armies of Indians taking over - customer service has fallen by the wayside. The reality is such strategies make a company more inflexible and slow to respond to market changes. We need laws that cap the cost footprint that can be off-shored, tax inversion loopholes have to be plugged - only then would American quality of life improve with job security, otherwise we would be bleeding jobs continuously, that is, all jobs except the executive suite.
5
Over 20 years ago, I was part of a small team at a global credit card firm to strategize on this pioneering model, never realizing what harmful effects this would have in the US, as well as in the quality of customer service and work in general. In the 2 decades since, Corporate CEOs have lobbied hard for legislation supporting this visa program, squeezed company operations and cost structures under the guise of "becoming lean", the only true beneficiaries are these CEOs themselves, with their compensation skyrocketing disproportionately. Shareholder return expectations are a false starting point for this craze for offshoring and outsourcing - the reality is many CEOs are relying predominantly on cost reductions and rationalization as a way of improving the bottom-line - very few have a clue as to how to improve the top-line - one just has to look at AmEx as a prime example. Teams that could huddle in one room are now spread out globally with armies of Indians taking over - customer service has fallen by the wayside. The reality is such strategies make a company more inflexible and slow to respond to market changes. We need laws that cap the cost footprint that can be off-shored, tax inversion loopholes have to be plugged - only then would American quality of life improve with job security, otherwise we would be bleeding jobs continuously, that is, all jobs except the executive suite.
7
Americans need to vote with their wallets on these issues. Companies that outsource American workers with lower paid foreign ones should be boycotted into submission. This is called fighting for what is right. Stop buying from these companies. Seek those that hire American workers. Our nation will benefit in the long run, with rising wages.
5
Americans need to vote with their wallets on these issues. Companies that outsource American workers with lower paid foreign ones should be boycotted into submission. This is called fighting for what is right. Stop buying from these companies. Seek those that hire American workers. Our nation will benefit in the long run, with rising wages.
5
We are cutting our own throats by cooperating with this sort of practice. Cost cutting of this nature only benefits those at the very top of the food chain and sends the rest of us home hoping McDonald's is still hiring. This increases the transfer of wealth and will eventually lead to anarchy as all those who are becoming helplessly unemployed lash out against any and all indications of wealth.
4
We are cutting our own throats by cooperating with this sort of practice. Cost cutting of this nature only benefits those at the very top of the food chain and sends the rest of us home hoping McDonald's is still hiring. This increases the transfer of wealth and will eventually lead to anarchy as all those who are becoming helplessly unemployed lash out against any and all indications of wealth.
3
next, electronic transfer of brain scans...hook up and push "send."
1
next, electronic transfer of brain scans...hook up and push "send."
It is an interesting news story, although a similar one could be written, and many were in fact written, about outsourcing and moving manufacturing abroad over the last 15 years. After, all these economic "efficiencies" are the point of all the trade agreements championed by the NY Times and its opinion page and news articles the last 30 years, whether NAFTA, WTO, and now the TPP and TIPP agreements. They are also the result of the preference for a "strong dollar," which is always overvalued when compared to foreign currencies. Managers who run corporations are simply following Milton Friedman's rule about their duty: "Maximizing shareholder value by all means within the (the very fuzzy) bounds of the law." But the result of all this "free trade" is internal devaluation;" e.g. the gradual reduction of most U.S. workers standard of living to siimlarly situated and educated workers in China, SE Asisa, South Asia, Africa, and Latin Amercica. http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Median-Household-Incom...
It is in interesting that Times believes that the H1B program is somehow worse because a meaningless (and since in a free market economy hundreds of thousands or jobs are created and destroyed every month a promise that H1B workers "will not adversely affect the working conditions of Americans or lower their wages" is pretty meaningless. Meanwhile the same trade agreements have special protection for pharma, doctors, and finance. E.G. the 1%.
It is in interesting that Times believes that the H1B program is somehow worse because a meaningless (and since in a free market economy hundreds of thousands or jobs are created and destroyed every month a promise that H1B workers "will not adversely affect the working conditions of Americans or lower their wages" is pretty meaningless. Meanwhile the same trade agreements have special protection for pharma, doctors, and finance. E.G. the 1%.
9
It is an interesting news story, although a similar one could be written, and many were in fact written, about outsourcing and moving manufacturing abroad over the last 15 years. After, all these economic "efficiencies" are the point of all the trade agreements championed by the NY Times and its opinion page and news articles the last 30 years, whether NAFTA, WTO, and now the TPP and TIPP agreements. They are also the result of the preference for a "strong dollar," which is always overvalued when compared to foreign currencies. Managers who run corporations are simply following Milton Friedman's rule about their duty: "Maximizing shareholder value by all means within the (the very fuzzy) bounds of the law." But the result of all this "free trade" is internal devaluation;" e.g. the gradual reduction of most U.S. workers standard of living to siimlarly situated and educated workers in China, SE Asisa, South Asia, Africa, and Latin Amercica. http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Median-Household-Incom...
It is in interesting that Times believes that the H1B program is somehow worse because a meaningless (and since in a free market economy hundreds of thousands or jobs are created and destroyed every month a promise that H1B workers "will not adversely affect the working conditions of Americans or lower their wages" is pretty meaningless. Meanwhile the same trade agreements have special protection for pharma, doctors, and finance. E.G. the 1%.
It is in interesting that Times believes that the H1B program is somehow worse because a meaningless (and since in a free market economy hundreds of thousands or jobs are created and destroyed every month a promise that H1B workers "will not adversely affect the working conditions of Americans or lower their wages" is pretty meaningless. Meanwhile the same trade agreements have special protection for pharma, doctors, and finance. E.G. the 1%.
8
I understand how and why outsourcing works, but I fail to see how it lowers a companies cost. Yes workers in other countries are paid less but the US company must pay the company they outsourced. The company doing what the American company did will charge more than workers cost. They will include all costs of the company plus a profit. The total cost of what the US company outsourced will be the same or higher
3
No the point is the difference in wages is so large - in some cases less than 50% of what it is here - so even with a hefty markup by the outsourcing company the total cost is considerably lower.
I understand how and why outsourcing works, but I fail to see how it lowers a companies cost. Yes workers in other countries are paid less but the US company must pay the company they outsourced. The company doing what the American company did will charge more than workers cost. They will include all costs of the company plus a profit. The total cost of what the US company outsourced will be the same or higher
2
No the point is the difference in wages is so large - in some cases less than 50% of what it is here - so even with a hefty markup by the outsourcing company the total cost is considerably lower.
Force those companies who hire H1b to pay 50K/year into a fund, Dont replace Americans. Soon H1b abuse will stop and they will search for and hire Americans
3
Force those companies who hire H1b to pay 50K/year into a fund, Dont replace Americans. Soon H1b abuse will stop and they will search for and hire Americans
3
While the article covers nothing new, it does not touch on relevant points. My thoughts:
First, who is to be blamed? The outsourcing behemoths like TCS, InfoSys, Accenture etc.? The Indians or low-paid workers from other countries? The corporations misusing/abusing the work visa laws (legally or illegally is questionable, as touched by Ms. Preston)? Or the federal government which allows this to happen?
Second, the article is written in a way to invoke an immediate emotional response, e.g. "I will never shop at Toys R Us" or "Bloody corporations", or as one one person commented "my city is overrun by Indians". But spend a little time to understand why this is happening.
While not new, an article like this by Ms. Perston is very narrow view of the bigger picture. People reading it get emotional without realizing that they are the ones benefiting. How?
1. Corporations cut cost, "streamline" their business, stay competitive etc. with the result that company stocks do better. Translation, all those 401(k)s, 403(b)s, and investments do better
2. Things cost less. Lower paid workers, less cost to business, cheaper products/goods for the consumers.
3. Outsourcing and other cost cutting measures forces others to do the same, so competition leads to more downward pressure on others to do the same to stay relevant. Translation, cheaper goods and services.
It is my opinion, that we the people allow this. Yes, we want things cheap, higher stock prices etc, that's what we get.
First, who is to be blamed? The outsourcing behemoths like TCS, InfoSys, Accenture etc.? The Indians or low-paid workers from other countries? The corporations misusing/abusing the work visa laws (legally or illegally is questionable, as touched by Ms. Preston)? Or the federal government which allows this to happen?
Second, the article is written in a way to invoke an immediate emotional response, e.g. "I will never shop at Toys R Us" or "Bloody corporations", or as one one person commented "my city is overrun by Indians". But spend a little time to understand why this is happening.
While not new, an article like this by Ms. Perston is very narrow view of the bigger picture. People reading it get emotional without realizing that they are the ones benefiting. How?
1. Corporations cut cost, "streamline" their business, stay competitive etc. with the result that company stocks do better. Translation, all those 401(k)s, 403(b)s, and investments do better
2. Things cost less. Lower paid workers, less cost to business, cheaper products/goods for the consumers.
3. Outsourcing and other cost cutting measures forces others to do the same, so competition leads to more downward pressure on others to do the same to stay relevant. Translation, cheaper goods and services.
It is my opinion, that we the people allow this. Yes, we want things cheap, higher stock prices etc, that's what we get.
3
While the article covers nothing new, it does not touch on relevant points. My thoughts:
First, who is to be blamed? The outsourcing behemoths like TCS, InfoSys, Accenture etc.? The Indians or low-paid workers from other countries? The corporations misusing/abusing the work visa laws (legally or illegally is questionable, as touched by Ms. Preston)? Or the federal government which allows this to happen?
Second, the article is written in a way to invoke an immediate emotional response, e.g. "I will never shop at Toys R Us" or "Bloody corporations", or as one one person commented "my city is overrun by Indians". But spend a little time to understand why this is happening.
While not new, an article like this by Ms. Perston is very narrow view of the bigger picture. People reading it get emotional without realizing that they are the ones benefiting. How?
1. Corporations cut cost, "streamline" their business, stay competitive etc. with the result that company stocks do better. Translation, all those 401(k)s, 403(b)s, and investments do better
2. Things cost less. Lower paid workers, less cost to business, cheaper products/goods for the consumers.
3. Outsourcing and other cost cutting measures forces others to do the same, so competition leads to more downward pressure on others to do the same to stay relevant. Translation, cheaper goods and services.
It is my opinion, that we the people allow this. Yes, we want things cheap, higher stock prices etc, that's what we get.
First, who is to be blamed? The outsourcing behemoths like TCS, InfoSys, Accenture etc.? The Indians or low-paid workers from other countries? The corporations misusing/abusing the work visa laws (legally or illegally is questionable, as touched by Ms. Preston)? Or the federal government which allows this to happen?
Second, the article is written in a way to invoke an immediate emotional response, e.g. "I will never shop at Toys R Us" or "Bloody corporations", or as one one person commented "my city is overrun by Indians". But spend a little time to understand why this is happening.
While not new, an article like this by Ms. Perston is very narrow view of the bigger picture. People reading it get emotional without realizing that they are the ones benefiting. How?
1. Corporations cut cost, "streamline" their business, stay competitive etc. with the result that company stocks do better. Translation, all those 401(k)s, 403(b)s, and investments do better
2. Things cost less. Lower paid workers, less cost to business, cheaper products/goods for the consumers.
3. Outsourcing and other cost cutting measures forces others to do the same, so competition leads to more downward pressure on others to do the same to stay relevant. Translation, cheaper goods and services.
It is my opinion, that we the people allow this. Yes, we want things cheap, higher stock prices etc, that's what we get.
2
Show me the cheaper costs for the consumer. I would like to see that.
Toys 'R Us is an aweful and mismanaged company. They outsourced development and management of their online store many years ago, which lost them the market for online toy retailing. I'm sure this will come back to bite them too.
4
Toys 'R Us is an aweful and mismanaged company. They outsourced development and management of their online store many years ago, which lost them the market for online toy retailing. I'm sure this will come back to bite them too.
2
Well the issue is very complex in itself .But to point out the lacunae - a lot of these immigrants and H1B holders are people with no technology or any commendable skill to begin with . Namely - HR personnel and Heads of indian IT companies , Finance executives and Heads, Recruiters who have nothing to do with IT but are the one who do the dirty work of their masters. They are expert at manipulating the country's legal system esp the HR personnel and Heads themselves and are in cahoots with the employers to do the dirty job. Their work is to furnish false information about the company to the country , employees themselves and end users of H1B holders . For this great injustice and criminal activity perpetrated by them on all and sundry they are rewarded with expedited green card and citizenship process. If you do survey of the green card holders around 30% of people are with background who have no systems or IT experience of even 1 day and they are the ones who are put on fast track on green card / citizen ship process as people who would put USA in the stratospheric level. If you ever find out people who are in EB1 and EB2 category which qualifies for the fastest possible green card (3mos - 2 years) given to people who are typically equivalent of nobel prize winners (EB1) it is more than 50% for HR and Finance executives of Indian companies who are in cahoots in illegal gaming of system and have no idea what IT is.namely Mastek, Igate, Infosys, TCS, Lntinfotech
2
Well the issue is very complex in itself .But to point out the lacunae - a lot of these immigrants and H1B holders are people with no technology or any commendable skill to begin with . Namely - HR personnel and Heads of indian IT companies , Finance executives and Heads, Recruiters who have nothing to do with IT but are the one who do the dirty work of their masters. They are expert at manipulating the country's legal system esp the HR personnel and Heads themselves and are in cahoots with the employers to do the dirty job. Their work is to furnish false information about the company to the country , employees themselves and end users of H1B holders . For this great injustice and criminal activity perpetrated by them on all and sundry they are rewarded with expedited green card and citizenship process. If you do survey of the green card holders around 30% of people are with background who have no systems or IT experience of even 1 day and they are the ones who are put on fast track on green card / citizen ship process as people who would put USA in the stratospheric level. If you ever find out people who are in EB1 and EB2 category which qualifies for the fastest possible green card (3mos - 2 years) given to people who are typically equivalent of nobel prize winners (EB1) it is more than 50% for HR and Finance executives of Indian companies who are in cahoots in illegal gaming of system and have no idea what IT is.namely Mastek, Igate, Infosys, TCS, Lntinfotech
3
Another reason not to have children.
4
Another reason not to have children.
4
Used vw for sale.
3
Used vw for sale.
4
No one should be required to train their replacement. Give them a fair severance package to leave that day, then offer them a contract to do the training.
If this sort of human decency isn't obvious, let's make it the law.
If this sort of human decency isn't obvious, let's make it the law.
4
No one should be required to train their replacement. Give them a fair severance package to leave that day, then offer them a contract to do the training.
If this sort of human decency isn't obvious, let's make it the law.
If this sort of human decency isn't obvious, let's make it the law.
4
While its sad to see how US workers are loosing jobs to low wage economies like India, this is just one side of the story. I am on H1B in US and have worked in UK and India before coming here. I helped my company gain million dollar business that even employed US nationals. I have paid taxes and social security that I would not even get back,when I leave the US. After all, to stay long term would require me to wait for 10+ years. Before that I would have completed an online MBA from tier 1 US school. American immigration system is indeed broken. Now the fact that comes out of this article is that US companies are shifting jobs to India. If we look at examples we see US employees with 15+ years of experience loosing jobs to less experience Indian workers from likes of TCS. This clearly shows that a less experienced worker could eventually learn and do a job that a 15+ year experience worker in US does. With companies struggling to maintain business, they remove what ever is non productive part of their value chain. These companies have either not invested in the resources they have to hone their skills that best meet and justify the work they perform and salaries they derive; or the employees have not focused on learning new skills. After all why would a company pay a US worker $65K if a less experienced person in India can do that for less than $10K and that too of same quality. Without outsourcing they cannot be productive and add more high skill jobs in the US.
1
While its sad to see how US workers are loosing jobs to low wage economies like India, this is just one side of the story. I am on H1B in US and have worked in UK and India before coming here. I helped my company gain million dollar business that even employed US nationals. I have paid taxes and social security that I would not even get back,when I leave the US. After all, to stay long term would require me to wait for 10+ years. Before that I would have completed an online MBA from tier 1 US school. American immigration system is indeed broken. Now the fact that comes out of this article is that US companies are shifting jobs to India. If we look at examples we see US employees with 15+ years of experience loosing jobs to less experience Indian workers from likes of TCS. This clearly shows that a less experienced worker could eventually learn and do a job that a 15+ year experience worker in US does. With companies struggling to maintain business, they remove what ever is non productive part of their value chain. These companies have either not invested in the resources they have to hone their skills that best meet and justify the work they perform and salaries they derive; or the employees have not focused on learning new skills. After all why would a company pay a US worker $65K if a less experienced person in India can do that for less than $10K and that too of same quality. Without outsourcing they cannot be productive and add more high skill jobs in the US.
1
remember the predictions that burger flipping would be mechanized after an increase in minimum wage. after all, corporations doing public service by providing a sort of internship for life/work skills would no longer be able to afford their altruism. hopefully, this will help more people to see the truth.
no one is safe. corporations are sociopathic entities by design. they will exploit any loophole or opportunity to realize profit. legal would be preferred (minimizes financial risks) but not necessary (VW). the employees absolutely do not matter. damage to the environment is certainly no consideration. the balance sheet is god. so, earning a degree and a white collar job, the prescribed path for the burger flipper, is no ticket to security.
the real issue? if we, as a society, accept that honest work does not necessary merit enough compensation to meet basic needs, to live, we accept that some people don't matter. once we accept that some lives don't matter we see that no lives really matter.
no one is safe. corporations are sociopathic entities by design. they will exploit any loophole or opportunity to realize profit. legal would be preferred (minimizes financial risks) but not necessary (VW). the employees absolutely do not matter. damage to the environment is certainly no consideration. the balance sheet is god. so, earning a degree and a white collar job, the prescribed path for the burger flipper, is no ticket to security.
the real issue? if we, as a society, accept that honest work does not necessary merit enough compensation to meet basic needs, to live, we accept that some people don't matter. once we accept that some lives don't matter we see that no lives really matter.
3
remember the predictions that burger flipping would be mechanized after an increase in minimum wage. after all, corporations doing public service by providing a sort of internship for life/work skills would no longer be able to afford their altruism. hopefully, this will help more people to see the truth.
no one is safe. corporations are sociopathic entities by design. they will exploit any loophole or opportunity to realize profit. legal would be preferred (minimizes financial risks) but not necessary (VW). the employees absolutely do not matter. damage to the environment is certainly no consideration. the balance sheet is god. so, earning a degree and a white collar job, the prescribed path for the burger flipper, is no ticket to security.
the real issue? if we, as a society, accept that honest work does not necessary merit enough compensation to meet basic needs, to live, we accept that some people don't matter. once we accept that some lives don't matter we see that no lives really matter.
no one is safe. corporations are sociopathic entities by design. they will exploit any loophole or opportunity to realize profit. legal would be preferred (minimizes financial risks) but not necessary (VW). the employees absolutely do not matter. damage to the environment is certainly no consideration. the balance sheet is god. so, earning a degree and a white collar job, the prescribed path for the burger flipper, is no ticket to security.
the real issue? if we, as a society, accept that honest work does not necessary merit enough compensation to meet basic needs, to live, we accept that some people don't matter. once we accept that some lives don't matter we see that no lives really matter.
2
Articles like this personalize the looser (uncompetitive US worker) while depersonalizing and demonizing the winners (evil corporations). To be fair let's personalize the winner too. If someone can do a job just as well for lower cost then the fair and just thing to do is hire them. Otherwise what would you say to that person? "Sorry, I know you worked hard to graduate with an [accounting] degree from a top school, have extensive relavant professional experience, work for a world class company, and can do a great job for lower cost, but you are [Indian] so I won't hire you." Really? Are these American values? Instead let's compete and win!
2
Scott, you are entirely missing the point. This is not about discrimination in the U.S. These jobs are being moved out of the U.S. So, the only way to compete is for U.S. workers to accept Indian wages. Great, until she asks for Indian prices at the supermarket.
Articles like this personalize the looser (uncompetitive US worker) while depersonalizing and demonizing the winners (evil corporations). To be fair let's personalize the winner too. If someone can do a job just as well for lower cost then the fair and just thing to do is hire them. Otherwise what would you say to that person? "Sorry, I know you worked hard to graduate with an [accounting] degree from a top school, have extensive relavant professional experience, work for a world class company, and can do a great job for lower cost, but you are [Indian] so I won't hire you." Really? Are these American values? Instead let's compete and win!
2
Scott, you are entirely missing the point. This is not about discrimination in the U.S. These jobs are being moved out of the U.S. So, the only way to compete is for U.S. workers to accept Indian wages. Great, until she asks for Indian prices at the supermarket.
1
"As a condition of his severance, he was asked to stay on for nine months to complete the training. The accountant, who at 26 was confident he would find a job elsewhere, preferred to resign."
Why is this not getting more attention? We should all tip our hat to this kid.
Why is this not getting more attention? We should all tip our hat to this kid.
4
"As a condition of his severance, he was asked to stay on for nine months to complete the training. The accountant, who at 26 was confident he would find a job elsewhere, preferred to resign."
Why is this not getting more attention? We should all tip our hat to this kid.
Why is this not getting more attention? We should all tip our hat to this kid.
5
Yes, the millions of workers who come in displace native workers, lower wages and reduce workforce participation rates. HOWEVER, they will be loyal Democrats, which will allow the government to be populated by policy makers who will implement policies that raise wages and increase workforce participation . . . or something.
1
eric, you do realize that the US chamber of commerce and other business organizations, primarily Republican supporters, are gun ho on the H1B visa program and "benefits" of oursourcing?
Yes, the millions of workers who come in displace native workers, lower wages and reduce workforce participation rates. HOWEVER, they will be loyal Democrats, which will allow the government to be populated by policy makers who will implement policies that raise wages and increase workforce participation . . . or something.
1
eric, you do realize that the US chamber of commerce and other business organizations, primarily Republican supporters, are gun ho on the H1B visa program and "benefits" of oursourcing?
Yoda - it is both parties. Both parties get the campaign contributions from these outsourcers. Not just one.
Many smaller companies you go to you find any one person doing three different things. Go to a huge car plant and one small engineering change requires a meeting of at least 6 to 8 people. At least it used to in the recent past. Then after making 5 zillion cars that never sell, they lay off 10,000 in one day.
Many huge companies are not all that efficient. Bottom line is many of the CEO types have little more loyalty to the company they represents or the country they lives in.
But, if the young view that as the way to the top, the whole system will continue. Until the sociopathic type CEO is reviled instead of revered, this won't stop soon.
Many huge companies are not all that efficient. Bottom line is many of the CEO types have little more loyalty to the company they represents or the country they lives in.
But, if the young view that as the way to the top, the whole system will continue. Until the sociopathic type CEO is reviled instead of revered, this won't stop soon.
1
Many smaller companies you go to you find any one person doing three different things. Go to a huge car plant and one small engineering change requires a meeting of at least 6 to 8 people. At least it used to in the recent past. Then after making 5 zillion cars that never sell, they lay off 10,000 in one day.
Many huge companies are not all that efficient. Bottom line is many of the CEO types have little more loyalty to the company they represents or the country they lives in.
But, if the young view that as the way to the top, the whole system will continue. Until the sociopathic type CEO is reviled instead of revered, this won't stop soon.
Many huge companies are not all that efficient. Bottom line is many of the CEO types have little more loyalty to the company they represents or the country they lives in.
But, if the young view that as the way to the top, the whole system will continue. Until the sociopathic type CEO is reviled instead of revered, this won't stop soon.
I've been doing this IT gig for 30 years and have luckily avoided a layoff because of the outsourcing monster. But it is a fact of life. I have seen successive waves of outsourcing and then insourcing reek havoc in stable and mature organizations. In careers.
One thing holds true, and I see it in many of the comments. Make sure you offer unique skills. If you become a commodity, someone who's job is scriptable and repeatable, you are ripe for outsourcing. Maybe to India, maybe to a contract worker, or maybe to a locally based service provider.
One thing holds true, and I see it in many of the comments. Make sure you offer unique skills. If you become a commodity, someone who's job is scriptable and repeatable, you are ripe for outsourcing. Maybe to India, maybe to a contract worker, or maybe to a locally based service provider.
2
I've been doing this IT gig for 30 years and have luckily avoided a layoff because of the outsourcing monster. But it is a fact of life. I have seen successive waves of outsourcing and then insourcing reek havoc in stable and mature organizations. In careers.
One thing holds true, and I see it in many of the comments. Make sure you offer unique skills. If you become a commodity, someone who's job is scriptable and repeatable, you are ripe for outsourcing. Maybe to India, maybe to a contract worker, or maybe to a locally based service provider.
One thing holds true, and I see it in many of the comments. Make sure you offer unique skills. If you become a commodity, someone who's job is scriptable and repeatable, you are ripe for outsourcing. Maybe to India, maybe to a contract worker, or maybe to a locally based service provider.
2
Look at the DoD contracts websitesite (all 2900 PAGESof it ) and search for INFOSYS. Among its many contracts is one for work at Andrews Air Frorce Base - where our president flies from.
Does any really think that haveing a foreign comapny provide IT support to the site our president flies to and from???
Does any really think that haveing a foreign comapny provide IT support to the site our president flies to and from???
2
Look at the DoD contracts websitesite (all 2900 PAGESof it ) and search for INFOSYS. Among its many contracts is one for work at Andrews Air Frorce Base - where our president flies from.
Does any really think that haveing a foreign comapny provide IT support to the site our president flies to and from???
Does any really think that haveing a foreign comapny provide IT support to the site our president flies to and from???
3
Look at our transportation systems - including airlines... Look at the ports. Look at the power grid. It is not good.
The rampant greed of corporate America is boundless and unpatriotic. Moreover, they think people are stupid and they can get away with these disgusting practices with impunity. Guess what Toys Are Us? I suggest a boycott of this chain. All the toys are made in China to begin with and now they are laying off the last vestiges of the American worker. Corporations are so stupid and short-sighted they never think if there are no more jobs in America- who is going to buy their products? Well- not me for one.
2
The rampant greed of corporate America is boundless and unpatriotic. Moreover, they think people are stupid and they can get away with these disgusting practices with impunity. Guess what Toys Are Us? I suggest a boycott of this chain. All the toys are made in China to begin with and now they are laying off the last vestiges of the American worker. Corporations are so stupid and short-sighted they never think if there are no more jobs in America- who is going to buy their products? Well- not me for one.
3
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California, Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
3
Even Government IT Jobs are going to H1bs and to foreigners, i mean workers living overseas. I can give a real scenario here, Burbank Water and Power in Burbank, CA, outsourced their IT to a consulting company, LCS. LCS take a big cut and outsourced the contract to a small, Houston based Indian IT company which keeps 1 staff in America to interact with the clients. Rest of the workers are in India, may be getting paid 10 dollars/hr. But, all of them have LCS e-mail address as a cover up, even though they are not LCS employees/contractors. These middle-men companies extract all the profit and the actual workers get paid very little. This must stop. LCS has similar contract with several Government organizations of California, Arizona, New Mexico, City of Phoenix etc. Yes, even the government jobs are going to H1bs and foreigners. American IT workers do not stand a chance, as they are completely bypassed by these greedy middle-man IT companies.
7
Short term profits at the expense of long term stability. First IT, now the checks and balances of the accounting department are being handed over to the citizens of another country. May the psychopathy of Corporate America be it's undoing.
1
Short term profits at the expense of long term stability. First IT, now the checks and balances of the accounting department are being handed over to the citizens of another country. May the psychopathy of Corporate America be it's undoing.
1
When companies do this, they are not "cutting costs" as much as they are cutting corners. The survivors who are lucky enough to hold onto their jobs will tell you that the company may look more efficient on paper; meanwhile the work is actually becoming HARDER to get done. One reason for this is because it is nearly impossible to get even the most basic questions about the work answered by ANYONE.
2
When companies do this, they are not "cutting costs" as much as they are cutting corners. The survivors who are lucky enough to hold onto their jobs will tell you that the company may look more efficient on paper; meanwhile the work is actually becoming HARDER to get done. One reason for this is because it is nearly impossible to get even the most basic questions about the work answered by ANYONE.
5
The rationale that the H-1B program is designed to "bring foreigners with specialized, hard-to-find skills" is deceitful. The program has always been used by companies to drive down their labor costs. Twenty years ago there was a large pool of programming talent in the US but they were earning a very good wage and H-1B workers were brought in to replace them at lower cost. A simple solution to H-1B abuse has been proposed: require companies to pay H-1B workers the same wage as their US counterparts. Corporations and their lobbyists would agree to this solution if there really was a shortage of American workers. IMHO the program needs to be either modified to ensure that H1-B workers are paid the same as their supposedly scarce American counterparts or the program should be terminated.
1
The rationale that the H-1B program is designed to "bring foreigners with specialized, hard-to-find skills" is deceitful. The program has always been used by companies to drive down their labor costs. Twenty years ago there was a large pool of programming talent in the US but they were earning a very good wage and H-1B workers were brought in to replace them at lower cost. A simple solution to H-1B abuse has been proposed: require companies to pay H-1B workers the same wage as their US counterparts. Corporations and their lobbyists would agree to this solution if there really was a shortage of American workers. IMHO the program needs to be either modified to ensure that H1-B workers are paid the same as their supposedly scarce American counterparts or the program should be terminated.
1
Since Congress seems unable to stem abuse of this visa program, it should be shut down immediately.
1
Since Congress seems unable to stem abuse of this visa program, it should be shut down immediately.
1
Sometimes it works out. I worked for a big contractor in the Energy industry. The brought in a gentleman from India with whmo we spent 3 weeks training. He went back to India and turedn in his notice a week later. With his new skills he got a better job in India.
1
Sometimes it works out. I worked for a big contractor in the Energy industry. The brought in a gentleman from India with whmo we spent 3 weeks training. He went back to India and turedn in his notice a week later. With his new skills he got a better job in India.
2
This sounds like criminal activity and bad for America, not much different than the rampant corruption in 3d world countries we read about.
1
This sounds like criminal activity and bad for America, not much different than the rampant corruption in 3d world countries we read about.
2
Basically, under the pretext of "globalization", American companies reduce cost by outsourcing accounting and management. This is happening because it is cheaper to perform these functions over there than here. The driving principle for all this is: greed. But surprise surprise even upper management functions are moving over there. And because the number of American students taking up STEM majors is seriously lacking, we have to rely on foreign students to fill up the needs in these fields as well. No amount of legislation can fix this; it has to start at home with a new generation of American kids passionate about STEM again.
1
Basically, under the pretext of "globalization", American companies reduce cost by outsourcing accounting and management. This is happening because it is cheaper to perform these functions over there than here. The driving principle for all this is: greed. But surprise surprise even upper management functions are moving over there. And because the number of American students taking up STEM majors is seriously lacking, we have to rely on foreign students to fill up the needs in these fields as well. No amount of legislation can fix this; it has to start at home with a new generation of American kids passionate about STEM again.
1
I work at a foreign financial institution; it is not my first. Every time profits are challenged, jobs at these institutions are cut first as there are few worker protections in the US. The lack of protections makes it easy to move jobs overseas as the cost of severance here is low compared to other countries and there are no notice periods, workers can be cut today and out the door tomorrow. In my 30+ years of working, I have also worked with many holders of special visas who have come to replace US workers. Of the 100 or so I have had the pleasure of working with, not a one had skills that US workers did not have. However all the visa holders were happy to take below market pay for their jobs.
1
I work at a foreign financial institution; it is not my first. Every time profits are challenged, jobs at these institutions are cut first as there are few worker protections in the US. The lack of protections makes it easy to move jobs overseas as the cost of severance here is low compared to other countries and there are no notice periods, workers can be cut today and out the door tomorrow. In my 30+ years of working, I have also worked with many holders of special visas who have come to replace US workers. Of the 100 or so I have had the pleasure of working with, not a one had skills that US workers did not have. However all the visa holders were happy to take below market pay for their jobs.
2
H1b visas are even worse than this story lets on.
I have personally seen H1b visa workers being abused. Overworked to the point of causing health problems. The thing about this visa is that the worker is sponsored by the company. So they work here at the companies discretion. It is easy to leverage this into the guest worker pulling all nighters and weekends.
Also the H1b workers are often paid a lot less than an American of similar capability would. And will not speak up about breaks, meals or holidays.
The requirement is that H1b workers should only be allowed if there are not domestic workers who can fill the role. This is plainly not true in 90% of the circumstances. As evident in this article.
There is obviously no oversight of the program, and no repercussions for violators.
I have personally seen H1b visa workers being abused. Overworked to the point of causing health problems. The thing about this visa is that the worker is sponsored by the company. So they work here at the companies discretion. It is easy to leverage this into the guest worker pulling all nighters and weekends.
Also the H1b workers are often paid a lot less than an American of similar capability would. And will not speak up about breaks, meals or holidays.
The requirement is that H1b workers should only be allowed if there are not domestic workers who can fill the role. This is plainly not true in 90% of the circumstances. As evident in this article.
There is obviously no oversight of the program, and no repercussions for violators.
2
H1b visas are even worse than this story lets on.
I have personally seen H1b visa workers being abused. Overworked to the point of causing health problems. The thing about this visa is that the worker is sponsored by the company. So they work here at the companies discretion. It is easy to leverage this into the guest worker pulling all nighters and weekends.
Also the H1b workers are often paid a lot less than an American of similar capability would. And will not speak up about breaks, meals or holidays.
The requirement is that H1b workers should only be allowed if there are not domestic workers who can fill the role. This is plainly not true in 90% of the circumstances. As evident in this article.
There is obviously no oversight of the program, and no repercussions for violators.
I have personally seen H1b visa workers being abused. Overworked to the point of causing health problems. The thing about this visa is that the worker is sponsored by the company. So they work here at the companies discretion. It is easy to leverage this into the guest worker pulling all nighters and weekends.
Also the H1b workers are often paid a lot less than an American of similar capability would. And will not speak up about breaks, meals or holidays.
The requirement is that H1b workers should only be allowed if there are not domestic workers who can fill the role. This is plainly not true in 90% of the circumstances. As evident in this article.
There is obviously no oversight of the program, and no repercussions for violators.
2
This kind of story sickens me, accountants, IT, and other back office positions should not fall under this special skills category. There are millions of American citizens who graduate with these degrees looking for a job. It really should he only available for engineering, science, medical, and other fields that require advanced degrees, expertise, and skills. That way we would encourage the best and the brightest foreigners to come live in the US, and they can help the companies grow...do you really think an Accounts Payable clerk from India will make Toys R Us better? Whomever approved this visa is a moron.
1
This kind of story sickens me, accountants, IT, and other back office positions should not fall under this special skills category. There are millions of American citizens who graduate with these degrees looking for a job. It really should he only available for engineering, science, medical, and other fields that require advanced degrees, expertise, and skills. That way we would encourage the best and the brightest foreigners to come live in the US, and they can help the companies grow...do you really think an Accounts Payable clerk from India will make Toys R Us better? Whomever approved this visa is a moron.
2
Kathleen Waugh, spokesperson for Toys R Us, noted that the outsourcing,“resulted in significant cost savings.”
H'mmm, so would reducing executive compensation, but I don't see them lining up for that.
Cost savings is not a justification for breaking the law— or for moral reprehensibility.
H'mmm, so would reducing executive compensation, but I don't see them lining up for that.
Cost savings is not a justification for breaking the law— or for moral reprehensibility.
2
Kathleen Waugh, spokesperson for Toys R Us, noted that the outsourcing,“resulted in significant cost savings.”
H'mmm, so would reducing executive compensation, but I don't see them lining up for that.
Cost savings is not a justification for breaking the law— or for moral reprehensibility.
H'mmm, so would reducing executive compensation, but I don't see them lining up for that.
Cost savings is not a justification for breaking the law— or for moral reprehensibility.
3
If Cognizant is based in US, how does author conclude it to be an Indian company? Are Google and Microsoft Indian companies too by same token?
1
Indochineselover
Thats right . CTS is owned by Dun and Bradstreet and is USA located- they are just run by Indian executives. There is a reason noboby points out at CTS but instead picks on TCS and infosys. TCS and Infosys are also owned by USA top honchos who refuse to share the massive wealth they are reaping by outsourcing and blame India/Indians for the same. Need to inquire deeper for the absolute source of issue as you may want to call it - it lies within areas of grey where no Sun shines.You would get the drift
Thats right . CTS is owned by Dun and Bradstreet and is USA located- they are just run by Indian executives. There is a reason noboby points out at CTS but instead picks on TCS and infosys. TCS and Infosys are also owned by USA top honchos who refuse to share the massive wealth they are reaping by outsourcing and blame India/Indians for the same. Need to inquire deeper for the absolute source of issue as you may want to call it - it lies within areas of grey where no Sun shines.You would get the drift
If Cognizant is based in US, how does author conclude it to be an Indian company? Are Google and Microsoft Indian companies too by same token?
1
Indochineselover
Thats right . CTS is owned by Dun and Bradstreet and is USA located- they are just run by Indian executives. There is a reason noboby points out at CTS but instead picks on TCS and infosys. TCS and Infosys are also owned by USA top honchos who refuse to share the massive wealth they are reaping by outsourcing and blame India/Indians for the same. Need to inquire deeper for the absolute source of issue as you may want to call it - it lies within areas of grey where no Sun shines.You would get the drift
Thats right . CTS is owned by Dun and Bradstreet and is USA located- they are just run by Indian executives. There is a reason noboby points out at CTS but instead picks on TCS and infosys. TCS and Infosys are also owned by USA top honchos who refuse to share the massive wealth they are reaping by outsourcing and blame India/Indians for the same. Need to inquire deeper for the absolute source of issue as you may want to call it - it lies within areas of grey where no Sun shines.You would get the drift
1
Boycott and protest relentlessly. Let's finr out who the company's board members are, who they fund politically, and call them out on job losses for Americans. Tata is a hugemonopoly in Undia.
1
Boycott and protest relentlessly. Let's finr out who the company's board members are, who they fund politically, and call them out on job losses for Americans. Tata is a hugemonopoly in Undia.
2
It would have been nice if the article took a tone that was fair to all involved. May be asking 'what would an American company do if it was wearing the shoes of these Indian outsourcing firms?' would have brought a much fairer tone to the article. I have trouble seeing that American companies would say 'no' to opportunities that came their way from another more wealthy nation (hypothetically speaking) because they needed to be fair to the people of this other wealthy nation. It is human nature. No matter who, if a law is broken, there must be legal consequences. It is not fair to blame most of this on the foreign companies that provide BPO services. Blame must be placed heavily on American companies that get huge tax breaks from our tax payers while in the name of cost saving ship services and jobs overseas. After all, wealthy U.S. citizens stash their wealth in Cayman islands and such so they do not have to pay taxes on that wealth. How is it fair to expect foreign companies to show loyalty to the U.S. when some of our own citizens do not? Of course, U.S. companies founded by expat Indians (or any one for that matter) abusing visas to bring in Indians for much lower wages is betrayal to the U.S. because these are U.S. companies and deserve all the scorn and legal scrutiny that they receive.
It would have been nice if the article took a tone that was fair to all involved. May be asking 'what would an American company do if it was wearing the shoes of these Indian outsourcing firms?' would have brought a much fairer tone to the article. I have trouble seeing that American companies would say 'no' to opportunities that came their way from another more wealthy nation (hypothetically speaking) because they needed to be fair to the people of this other wealthy nation. It is human nature. No matter who, if a law is broken, there must be legal consequences. It is not fair to blame most of this on the foreign companies that provide BPO services. Blame must be placed heavily on American companies that get huge tax breaks from our tax payers while in the name of cost saving ship services and jobs overseas. After all, wealthy U.S. citizens stash their wealth in Cayman islands and such so they do not have to pay taxes on that wealth. How is it fair to expect foreign companies to show loyalty to the U.S. when some of our own citizens do not? Of course, U.S. companies founded by expat Indians (or any one for that matter) abusing visas to bring in Indians for much lower wages is betrayal to the U.S. because these are U.S. companies and deserve all the scorn and legal scrutiny that they receive.
1
The company I work for outsources far more people in other areas outside of technology - human resources, recruiting, accounting, etc. It is huge. Those of us who come in are now temps, no benefits, no paid leave, nothing. This is so common in corporate America now. I never expect to have a "normal" job ever again and I have 25 more years left to work.
To young workers out there - start your own company!
To young workers out there - start your own company!
3
The company I work for outsources far more people in other areas outside of technology - human resources, recruiting, accounting, etc. It is huge. Those of us who come in are now temps, no benefits, no paid leave, nothing. This is so common in corporate America now. I never expect to have a "normal" job ever again and I have 25 more years left to work.
To young workers out there - start your own company!
To young workers out there - start your own company!
4
And the American taxpayer underwrites socialism for corporations whose representatives, lobbyists, and purchased politicians rail against socialism for everyone else while lining their own pockets. It would appear that our vibrant "capitalist" system is working just fine.
And the American taxpayer underwrites socialism for corporations whose representatives, lobbyists, and purchased politicians rail against socialism for everyone else while lining their own pockets. It would appear that our vibrant "capitalist" system is working just fine.
1
Jobs, jobs, jobs! That is the primary thing that voters should be focusing on. I watched while technology decimated the graphic design industry. Then there was outsourcing. Family farms were taken over by giant conglomerates. The teaching profession used to be a reliable way to make a middle class living, but that it being privatized, de-unionized, and de-professionalized. They are letting go teachers with years of experience in preference for teachers that are brand new and will not rock the boat and who are paid less. They're turning it into a fast-food high turnover, no seniority kind of job.
There are tons of articles urging people to major in computer science or engineering because we need more people to work in those fields. Not with H1-B visas. People have been writing about the problem of H1-B visas for years. We have no control over what a company does unless the government imposes regulations and enforces them.
This is 100% on our politicians.
There are tons of articles urging people to major in computer science or engineering because we need more people to work in those fields. Not with H1-B visas. People have been writing about the problem of H1-B visas for years. We have no control over what a company does unless the government imposes regulations and enforces them.
This is 100% on our politicians.
1
Jobs, jobs, jobs! That is the primary thing that voters should be focusing on. I watched while technology decimated the graphic design industry. Then there was outsourcing. Family farms were taken over by giant conglomerates. The teaching profession used to be a reliable way to make a middle class living, but that it being privatized, de-unionized, and de-professionalized. They are letting go teachers with years of experience in preference for teachers that are brand new and will not rock the boat and who are paid less. They're turning it into a fast-food high turnover, no seniority kind of job.
There are tons of articles urging people to major in computer science or engineering because we need more people to work in those fields. Not with H1-B visas. People have been writing about the problem of H1-B visas for years. We have no control over what a company does unless the government imposes regulations and enforces them.
This is 100% on our politicians.
There are tons of articles urging people to major in computer science or engineering because we need more people to work in those fields. Not with H1-B visas. People have been writing about the problem of H1-B visas for years. We have no control over what a company does unless the government imposes regulations and enforces them.
This is 100% on our politicians.
2
I'm so sick of the corporate welfare laws that hurt American workers at every turn. Misusing or thwarting the laws has come to be accepted practice. Despite what POTUS says, corporations are not people and it's time that we stopped giving them preferential treatment as they continue to do harm to the U.S. in the name of excessive greed.
2
You are confusing POTUS with Mitt Romney the brilliant corporate raider and jobs destroyer.
POTUS didn't say that corporations are people. SCOTUS did.
I'm so sick of the corporate welfare laws that hurt American workers at every turn. Misusing or thwarting the laws has come to be accepted practice. Despite what POTUS says, corporations are not people and it's time that we stopped giving them preferential treatment as they continue to do harm to the U.S. in the name of excessive greed.
2
You are confusing POTUS with Mitt Romney the brilliant corporate raider and jobs destroyer.
POTUS didn't say that corporations are people. SCOTUS did.
The article seems to suggest that without the H1-B program there wouldn't be a way to outsource these jobs. That is an invalid assumption. Without the program companies could still find way to train people in India directly, a more challenging endeavor, but not impossible. Change in H1-B rules will just change how outsourcing is executed not prevent it.
1
The article seems to suggest that without the H1-B program there wouldn't be a way to outsource these jobs. That is an invalid assumption. Without the program companies could still find way to train people in India directly, a more challenging endeavor, but not impossible. Change in H1-B rules will just change how outsourcing is executed not prevent it.
2
They'll meet the same fate as Circuit City and, eventually, Kmart. And for the same reasons.
2
If the Toy's R US accountants were unionized, and not "supervisors", this company, and others like it, would give pause before decimating middle class jobs. Note to politicians who disparage unions: this is what they are for, to protect ordinary working folks from employment abuse. Note to our elected officials who talk about job growth, but they do what ever they can to destroy labor laws: your job is to protect middle class jobs with effective legislation. Shame on Toys R US! With the holiday season coming, I will be certain to avoid this company. I can shop at a local, community owned toy store, and support my local toy store and avoid this chain. PS: outsourcing, in my mind, is a sign of a company with poor management and poor imagination. I can take my money elsewhere. I will advise everyone I know to do the same.
2
And poverty continues to grow in the USA, as people continue to blame the poor for being poor, as politicians continue to rage against "takers" and cut what is left of the "safety net."
2
The old-fashioned "downsizing" from mergers and acquisitions of the 80s has morphed into downsizing from globalization. Either way, employees end up on the short end of the stick.
This article enraged me as much for the cavalier attitude of employers, who in many cases, bend or stretch the law in the hopes they can accrue savings without challenge--part of the "generous" severance packages employers tout is the requirement not to sue. It's laughable that employers so freely violate US policies on foreign workers:
"Employers, according to the federal guidelines, must sign a declaration that the foreign workers “will not adversely affect the working conditions” of Americans or lower their wages."
The trope that exporting jobs will streamline companies, accelerate growth in the long run, is sophomoric. When has a corporate promise like that ever come to pass? The only executive speaking the truth here is the woman who noted, that "the outsourcing resulted in significant cost savings."
Where are the Democratic candidates on the concept of outsourcing?
This article enraged me as much for the cavalier attitude of employers, who in many cases, bend or stretch the law in the hopes they can accrue savings without challenge--part of the "generous" severance packages employers tout is the requirement not to sue. It's laughable that employers so freely violate US policies on foreign workers:
"Employers, according to the federal guidelines, must sign a declaration that the foreign workers “will not adversely affect the working conditions” of Americans or lower their wages."
The trope that exporting jobs will streamline companies, accelerate growth in the long run, is sophomoric. When has a corporate promise like that ever come to pass? The only executive speaking the truth here is the woman who noted, that "the outsourcing resulted in significant cost savings."
Where are the Democratic candidates on the concept of outsourcing?
2
They'll meet the same fate as Circuit City and, eventually, Kmart. And for the same reasons.
3
If the Toy's R US accountants were unionized, and not "supervisors", this company, and others like it, would give pause before decimating middle class jobs. Note to politicians who disparage unions: this is what they are for, to protect ordinary working folks from employment abuse. Note to our elected officials who talk about job growth, but they do what ever they can to destroy labor laws: your job is to protect middle class jobs with effective legislation. Shame on Toys R US! With the holiday season coming, I will be certain to avoid this company. I can shop at a local, community owned toy store, and support my local toy store and avoid this chain. PS: outsourcing, in my mind, is a sign of a company with poor management and poor imagination. I can take my money elsewhere. I will advise everyone I know to do the same.
2
And poverty continues to grow in the USA, as people continue to blame the poor for being poor, as politicians continue to rage against "takers" and cut what is left of the "safety net."
1
The old-fashioned "downsizing" from mergers and acquisitions of the 80s has morphed into downsizing from globalization. Either way, employees end up on the short end of the stick.
This article enraged me as much for the cavalier attitude of employers, who in many cases, bend or stretch the law in the hopes they can accrue savings without challenge--part of the "generous" severance packages employers tout is the requirement not to sue. It's laughable that employers so freely violate US policies on foreign workers:
"Employers, according to the federal guidelines, must sign a declaration that the foreign workers “will not adversely affect the working conditions” of Americans or lower their wages."
The trope that exporting jobs will streamline companies, accelerate growth in the long run, is sophomoric. When has a corporate promise like that ever come to pass? The only executive speaking the truth here is the woman who noted, that "the outsourcing resulted in significant cost savings."
Where are the Democratic candidates on the concept of outsourcing?
This article enraged me as much for the cavalier attitude of employers, who in many cases, bend or stretch the law in the hopes they can accrue savings without challenge--part of the "generous" severance packages employers tout is the requirement not to sue. It's laughable that employers so freely violate US policies on foreign workers:
"Employers, according to the federal guidelines, must sign a declaration that the foreign workers “will not adversely affect the working conditions” of Americans or lower their wages."
The trope that exporting jobs will streamline companies, accelerate growth in the long run, is sophomoric. When has a corporate promise like that ever come to pass? The only executive speaking the truth here is the woman who noted, that "the outsourcing resulted in significant cost savings."
Where are the Democratic candidates on the concept of outsourcing?
3
Anybody who thinks that people in India, are, in some mysterious way, better able to do tech work than "Americans", is a reverse racist.
If Indians were really better at tech work, Silicon Valley would have popped up in Vishakhapatmnam, and not in Santa Clara.
What Indians are better able to do, is to work for a lower salary.
Why aren't Indians "talented" as plumbers and electricians on high rise building construction in New York City? Because the plumbers and electricians in NYC have a very strong union - and above all, they are politically powerful.
The occupational group, that has the greatest "deficiency", computer programming, is also the occupational group that is 100% non-unionised. Programmers, like solitary lambs, are a soft target for the trans-national labor vultures.
And what is the "wind under the wings" of the vultures? Our politicians.
The "Slaver" organizations, that get congress to support the H-1B visa program, have given a lot of money to our politicians. The only way to stop this abusive program, is to not re-elect any candidate who has voted for the H-1B visa program.
If Indians were really better at tech work, Silicon Valley would have popped up in Vishakhapatmnam, and not in Santa Clara.
What Indians are better able to do, is to work for a lower salary.
Why aren't Indians "talented" as plumbers and electricians on high rise building construction in New York City? Because the plumbers and electricians in NYC have a very strong union - and above all, they are politically powerful.
The occupational group, that has the greatest "deficiency", computer programming, is also the occupational group that is 100% non-unionised. Programmers, like solitary lambs, are a soft target for the trans-national labor vultures.
And what is the "wind under the wings" of the vultures? Our politicians.
The "Slaver" organizations, that get congress to support the H-1B visa program, have given a lot of money to our politicians. The only way to stop this abusive program, is to not re-elect any candidate who has voted for the H-1B visa program.
4
These CEOs who have the mentality and morality of middle age pirates send the jobs overseas. They then use some of the excess profit to buy off the congressman and also to spread propaganda among the population. Many black youth who are the most affected resort to crime just to survive..if the choice is starvation, homelessness and despair vs selling drugs, taking a chance of the consequences however you will at least have food,baby milk and shelter I am not surprised many chose selling drugs. The working class whites who are also beginning to be adversely affect are then convinced that the problem is the inner city black youth and "black culture". The wealthy class including these business CEOs also very successfully market the idea that the democrats are coming to take the guns of working class whites who then vote for politicians enabling the cycle to continue. It is a ruthless but brilliant strategy.
1
The abuse of the H-1B program are endemic and directly responsible for deliberately harming the jobs of American workers. And, as the article contends, the damage to the jobs of thousands of American workers extends far beyond the specific industries and technological skills the H-1B visa program was created to provide American based employers assistance in remaining globally competetive.
One comment from a representative of a company was quoted as saying "cost savings" was the primary benefit of her company's abuse of H-1B program. Apparently, she wasn't sufficiently briefed to know the H-1B visa program's explicit purpose it to permit U.S. based companies to access skills which are not available domestically AT ANY PRICE.
Republicans holding majorities in both branches of Congress are grimly determined to defund Planned Parenthood because the wholly fallacious and fabricated videos claiming to show the illegaly selling of the tissues and organs of human fetuses.
And while Republicans fiddle with discredited allegations against an organization responsible for saving the lives and health of millions of American women, the jobs and families of thousands are dismembered by illegal conspiracies between domestic and foreign corporations.
Not one of over a dozen Republican presidential candidates mentioned this illegal exportation of American jobs to foreign workers; claims of restoring American greatness and right to rise notwithstanding.
One comment from a representative of a company was quoted as saying "cost savings" was the primary benefit of her company's abuse of H-1B program. Apparently, she wasn't sufficiently briefed to know the H-1B visa program's explicit purpose it to permit U.S. based companies to access skills which are not available domestically AT ANY PRICE.
Republicans holding majorities in both branches of Congress are grimly determined to defund Planned Parenthood because the wholly fallacious and fabricated videos claiming to show the illegaly selling of the tissues and organs of human fetuses.
And while Republicans fiddle with discredited allegations against an organization responsible for saving the lives and health of millions of American women, the jobs and families of thousands are dismembered by illegal conspiracies between domestic and foreign corporations.
Not one of over a dozen Republican presidential candidates mentioned this illegal exportation of American jobs to foreign workers; claims of restoring American greatness and right to rise notwithstanding.
1
Anybody who thinks that people in India, are, in some mysterious way, better able to do tech work than "Americans", is a reverse racist.
If Indians were really better at tech work, Silicon Valley would have popped up in Vishakhapatmnam, and not in Santa Clara.
What Indians are better able to do, is to work for a lower salary.
Why aren't Indians "talented" as plumbers and electricians on high rise building construction in New York City? Because the plumbers and electricians in NYC have a very strong union - and above all, they are politically powerful.
The occupational group, that has the greatest "deficiency", computer programming, is also the occupational group that is 100% non-unionised. Programmers, like solitary lambs, are a soft target for the trans-national labor vultures.
And what is the "wind under the wings" of the vultures? Our politicians.
The "Slaver" organizations, that get congress to support the H-1B visa program, have given a lot of money to our politicians. The only way to stop this abusive program, is to not re-elect any candidate who has voted for the H-1B visa program.
If Indians were really better at tech work, Silicon Valley would have popped up in Vishakhapatmnam, and not in Santa Clara.
What Indians are better able to do, is to work for a lower salary.
Why aren't Indians "talented" as plumbers and electricians on high rise building construction in New York City? Because the plumbers and electricians in NYC have a very strong union - and above all, they are politically powerful.
The occupational group, that has the greatest "deficiency", computer programming, is also the occupational group that is 100% non-unionised. Programmers, like solitary lambs, are a soft target for the trans-national labor vultures.
And what is the "wind under the wings" of the vultures? Our politicians.
The "Slaver" organizations, that get congress to support the H-1B visa program, have given a lot of money to our politicians. The only way to stop this abusive program, is to not re-elect any candidate who has voted for the H-1B visa program.
4
These CEOs who have the mentality and morality of middle age pirates send the jobs overseas. They then use some of the excess profit to buy off the congressman and also to spread propaganda among the population. Many black youth who are the most affected resort to crime just to survive..if the choice is starvation, homelessness and despair vs selling drugs, taking a chance of the consequences however you will at least have food,baby milk and shelter I am not surprised many chose selling drugs. The working class whites who are also beginning to be adversely affect are then convinced that the problem is the inner city black youth and "black culture". The wealthy class including these business CEOs also very successfully market the idea that the democrats are coming to take the guns of working class whites who then vote for politicians enabling the cycle to continue. It is a ruthless but brilliant strategy.
The abuse of the H-1B program are endemic and directly responsible for deliberately harming the jobs of American workers. And, as the article contends, the damage to the jobs of thousands of American workers extends far beyond the specific industries and technological skills the H-1B visa program was created to provide American based employers assistance in remaining globally competetive.
One comment from a representative of a company was quoted as saying "cost savings" was the primary benefit of her company's abuse of H-1B program. Apparently, she wasn't sufficiently briefed to know the H-1B visa program's explicit purpose it to permit U.S. based companies to access skills which are not available domestically AT ANY PRICE.
Republicans holding majorities in both branches of Congress are grimly determined to defund Planned Parenthood because the wholly fallacious and fabricated videos claiming to show the illegaly selling of the tissues and organs of human fetuses.
And while Republicans fiddle with discredited allegations against an organization responsible for saving the lives and health of millions of American women, the jobs and families of thousands are dismembered by illegal conspiracies between domestic and foreign corporations.
Not one of over a dozen Republican presidential candidates mentioned this illegal exportation of American jobs to foreign workers; claims of restoring American greatness and right to rise notwithstanding.
One comment from a representative of a company was quoted as saying "cost savings" was the primary benefit of her company's abuse of H-1B program. Apparently, she wasn't sufficiently briefed to know the H-1B visa program's explicit purpose it to permit U.S. based companies to access skills which are not available domestically AT ANY PRICE.
Republicans holding majorities in both branches of Congress are grimly determined to defund Planned Parenthood because the wholly fallacious and fabricated videos claiming to show the illegaly selling of the tissues and organs of human fetuses.
And while Republicans fiddle with discredited allegations against an organization responsible for saving the lives and health of millions of American women, the jobs and families of thousands are dismembered by illegal conspiracies between domestic and foreign corporations.
Not one of over a dozen Republican presidential candidates mentioned this illegal exportation of American jobs to foreign workers; claims of restoring American greatness and right to rise notwithstanding.
1
There needs to be an informants hot line to report H1-B abuses such as the Toys R Us one described here. Give whistleblower protections to those calling, such as job and severance pay guarantees, and provide for cease and desist orders against companies using their H1-B workers to shut down American jobs.
H1-B visas need to be used to fill needed skills at ongoing American firms, not for exporting existing American skills.
H1-B visas need to be used to fill needed skills at ongoing American firms, not for exporting existing American skills.
6
There needs to be an informants hot line to report H1-B abuses such as the Toys R Us one described here. Give whistleblower protections to those calling, such as job and severance pay guarantees, and provide for cease and desist orders against companies using their H1-B workers to shut down American jobs.
H1-B visas need to be used to fill needed skills at ongoing American firms, not for exporting existing American skills.
H1-B visas need to be used to fill needed skills at ongoing American firms, not for exporting existing American skills.
6
The US department of labor does not consider this to be within their jurisdiction.
As an IT professional, I've had the chance to work with staff from some of the firms mentioned, not in an outsourcing capacity, but in more traditional consulting roles. I won't generalize about skill levels (too broad an assessment), but language proficiency has at times between a barrier.
The issue not mentioned often with outsourcing is physics: time and space. Companies shipping jobs to the far East are literally imposing a night & day difference between their internal teams. Someone has to be awake in the middle of the night to communicate with another group working 9-5, which is not ideal for innovation & creative work. Also, you've just created aa minimum 2 day travel overhead (front & back end) on getting groups together in person.
Listen, we Americans need to stay on top STEM to make outsourcing less palatable from a skill perspective. That being said, there are most certainly companies abusing the visa programs, and they should be called out as in this piece, and appropriately judged by consumers and perhaps penalized by regulators.
Two last points. Like others, I've also wondered, why not offshore management, considering the superior cost savings. Also, the assertion by a manager that offshoring is about learning new skills is utter garbage. It is 100% about cost reduction; the least they can do is be honest.
The issue not mentioned often with outsourcing is physics: time and space. Companies shipping jobs to the far East are literally imposing a night & day difference between their internal teams. Someone has to be awake in the middle of the night to communicate with another group working 9-5, which is not ideal for innovation & creative work. Also, you've just created aa minimum 2 day travel overhead (front & back end) on getting groups together in person.
Listen, we Americans need to stay on top STEM to make outsourcing less palatable from a skill perspective. That being said, there are most certainly companies abusing the visa programs, and they should be called out as in this piece, and appropriately judged by consumers and perhaps penalized by regulators.
Two last points. Like others, I've also wondered, why not offshore management, considering the superior cost savings. Also, the assertion by a manager that offshoring is about learning new skills is utter garbage. It is 100% about cost reduction; the least they can do is be honest.
39
I think I am done with Toys R US. I think an investigation is in order to see if Toys R US has violated any laws.
1
As an IT professional, I've had the chance to work with staff from some of the firms mentioned, not in an outsourcing capacity, but in more traditional consulting roles. I won't generalize about skill levels (too broad an assessment), but language proficiency has at times between a barrier.
The issue not mentioned often with outsourcing is physics: time and space. Companies shipping jobs to the far East are literally imposing a night & day difference between their internal teams. Someone has to be awake in the middle of the night to communicate with another group working 9-5, which is not ideal for innovation & creative work. Also, you've just created aa minimum 2 day travel overhead (front & back end) on getting groups together in person.
Listen, we Americans need to stay on top STEM to make outsourcing less palatable from a skill perspective. That being said, there are most certainly companies abusing the visa programs, and they should be called out as in this piece, and appropriately judged by consumers and perhaps penalized by regulators.
Two last points. Like others, I've also wondered, why not offshore management, considering the superior cost savings. Also, the assertion by a manager that offshoring is about learning new skills is utter garbage. It is 100% about cost reduction; the least they can do is be honest.
The issue not mentioned often with outsourcing is physics: time and space. Companies shipping jobs to the far East are literally imposing a night & day difference between their internal teams. Someone has to be awake in the middle of the night to communicate with another group working 9-5, which is not ideal for innovation & creative work. Also, you've just created aa minimum 2 day travel overhead (front & back end) on getting groups together in person.
Listen, we Americans need to stay on top STEM to make outsourcing less palatable from a skill perspective. That being said, there are most certainly companies abusing the visa programs, and they should be called out as in this piece, and appropriately judged by consumers and perhaps penalized by regulators.
Two last points. Like others, I've also wondered, why not offshore management, considering the superior cost savings. Also, the assertion by a manager that offshoring is about learning new skills is utter garbage. It is 100% about cost reduction; the least they can do is be honest.
102
I think I am done with Toys R US. I think an investigation is in order to see if Toys R US has violated any laws.
3
This is a disgrace, but it has been going on for decades. I first heard of this practice in the late 1970s when GE brought workers from India to take over technology jobs in Schenectady, New York. These were programming jobs and there were plenty of Americans who could fill them. The Indian workers lived together in apartments that were more like dorms and they worked for lower wages than the Americans they were replacing. Vast numbers of American programmers were laid off and soon Schenectady's housing market became severely depressed. People who wanted to move to get a job elsewhere couldn't sell their homes because of the glut of homes on the market. I was told by someone at GE that this hiring of Indian workers resulted from a "deal" struck between GE and the government of India, which bought GE's large turbines only if GE promised to hire Indian workers into U.S. jobs.
This practice is just as outrageous today as it was 40 years ago. It won't change until people like us boycott employers like Toys R Us who think it's OK to ship American jobs overseas. Truly, there is more to running a business than making a few cents more for shareholders. They should think for a minute about where most of their products are sold. These companies need to understand what being a good corporate citizen means.
This practice is just as outrageous today as it was 40 years ago. It won't change until people like us boycott employers like Toys R Us who think it's OK to ship American jobs overseas. Truly, there is more to running a business than making a few cents more for shareholders. They should think for a minute about where most of their products are sold. These companies need to understand what being a good corporate citizen means.
7
Its the Bill Gates model. Outsource or insource programming to folks who work for a fraction of a U.S. salary, thus discouraging US citizens from computer science careers. Once done, you can wail on that there are not enough Americans to fill the need. Years later, retire and give 10 billion to a foundation to dup folks into thinking you are real.
7
This is a disgrace, but it has been going on for decades. I first heard of this practice in the late 1970s when GE brought workers from India to take over technology jobs in Schenectady, New York. These were programming jobs and there were plenty of Americans who could fill them. The Indian workers lived together in apartments that were more like dorms and they worked for lower wages than the Americans they were replacing. Vast numbers of American programmers were laid off and soon Schenectady's housing market became severely depressed. People who wanted to move to get a job elsewhere couldn't sell their homes because of the glut of homes on the market. I was told by someone at GE that this hiring of Indian workers resulted from a "deal" struck between GE and the government of India, which bought GE's large turbines only if GE promised to hire Indian workers into U.S. jobs.
This practice is just as outrageous today as it was 40 years ago. It won't change until people like us boycott employers like Toys R Us who think it's OK to ship American jobs overseas. Truly, there is more to running a business than making a few cents more for shareholders. They should think for a minute about where most of their products are sold. These companies need to understand what being a good corporate citizen means.
This practice is just as outrageous today as it was 40 years ago. It won't change until people like us boycott employers like Toys R Us who think it's OK to ship American jobs overseas. Truly, there is more to running a business than making a few cents more for shareholders. They should think for a minute about where most of their products are sold. These companies need to understand what being a good corporate citizen means.
7
Its the Bill Gates model. Outsource or insource programming to folks who work for a fraction of a U.S. salary, thus discouraging US citizens from computer science careers. Once done, you can wail on that there are not enough Americans to fill the need. Years later, retire and give 10 billion to a foundation to dup folks into thinking you are real.
7
This past cycle, there were three times the number of petitions than there were slots (the 85,000). Instead of really vetting these application to prevent this type of temporary training, our immigration office conducts a random lottery to choose "the winners". Many valuable workers who would have stayed to work in our country, pay taxes, and otherwise make positive contributions to our society, were denied visas. Countless of them were also educated here. I know this from personal experience. A dear young man who was graduated from Georgetown University was denied, even though he had long-term employment here, and would have been deported. He is now our wonderful son-in-law.
2
Yes, jobs are being lost to immigrants. Jobs are being lost to temp foreign workers, jobs are being lost to illegal aliens. Across all sectors of labor, across all skill and pay levels. This, is in fact the very reason immigration law was developed, and why strict enforcement is imperative to ensure the integrity of such law. There is no half way. No kinda sorta. There is no black or white. The laws are clear. The rules are obvious. And the consequence for ignoring, violating, or twisting the law is crystal clear. Politicians, law enforcement, and activists need to knock off the nonsense. The American population now knows better. Election day approaches. See you at the polls.
2
"Since New York Life is not a technology company, said Mr. Werfelman, the spokesman, it turned to outside contractors for the upgrade."
Outside contractors do not have to come from India. As, in the last few years, many companies laid off their technical staff, there is no shortage of American technology workers who would gladly lend their services to New York Life.
As long as there is no outrage expressed by ordinary citizens culminating in changing laws, this practice will continue, and companies will continue saying that they have a responsibility to their shareholders, ignoring, because they can and they are getting away with it, their responsibilities to the employees.
Outside contractors do not have to come from India. As, in the last few years, many companies laid off their technical staff, there is no shortage of American technology workers who would gladly lend their services to New York Life.
As long as there is no outrage expressed by ordinary citizens culminating in changing laws, this practice will continue, and companies will continue saying that they have a responsibility to their shareholders, ignoring, because they can and they are getting away with it, their responsibilities to the employees.
2
What? Do you mean bloodsucking capitalists in India would steal business secrets and techniques from bloodsucking capitalists here? Why, I thought all of these folks were supposed to be in league with one another and here they are competing and undercutting one another in the race to destroy jobs and the people dependent upon them, reduce earnings and harm families and children. Now I learn they are actually in competition to do this. Free marketers say that competition is a good thing and the international free traders and banksters agree with them. I guess this is "progress."
What has harmed so many Americans, of course, is the massive export of jobs to foreign labor markets. It has distorted the positive parts of the market process by separating labor and consumers. Unless goods are manufactured in the same market where they are sold and purchased you see terrible effects on job security, wages and everything that goes with them.
One city based on manufacturing after another in the U.S. has shut down just to keep the globalists and international business elites happy with their outsourcing and off-shoring, and in the process we have wound up funding Chinese military expansion and Chinese coal-burning electrical plant construction at the rate of a two or three startups a week. Way to go, one-worlders!
Our nation’s economy has got to serve the interests of American citizens first. When it fails to do that it becomes a blight upon the American people.
What has harmed so many Americans, of course, is the massive export of jobs to foreign labor markets. It has distorted the positive parts of the market process by separating labor and consumers. Unless goods are manufactured in the same market where they are sold and purchased you see terrible effects on job security, wages and everything that goes with them.
One city based on manufacturing after another in the U.S. has shut down just to keep the globalists and international business elites happy with their outsourcing and off-shoring, and in the process we have wound up funding Chinese military expansion and Chinese coal-burning electrical plant construction at the rate of a two or three startups a week. Way to go, one-worlders!
Our nation’s economy has got to serve the interests of American citizens first. When it fails to do that it becomes a blight upon the American people.
3
Based on recent news, lawmakers don't care about this issue.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2985498/it-outsourcing/congress-set...
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2985498/it-outsourcing/congress-set...
1
Do not blame the Indian workers. Blame the corporations involved.
3
Employees are part of what makes a company excellent and profitable. We need to go back to the days when companies and their employees were loyal to each other in a culture that shared the same values with their clients. Shareholders do not contribute anything to enterprises and creativity and do not necessarily care what happens to the host country. Many times I've had to call with a service problem and the person across the phone line and the border mocked me and snubbed me when they could not understand my perspective and what is required and customary where I live. Moreover, sometimes I cannot even understand what they were saying.
3
First Disney, now Toys R Us, and we come to find out that Accenture, formerly sponsoring Tiger Woods, is in on it too. Corporate America is disgusting, and the Republicans are in on it. You want to see things change? Vote out every Republican lawmaker. It's easy to get rid of the Senators and Governors, it's the congressman, who have insulated themselves from the voters with gerrymandering, that are difficult to dislodge.
4
As a person who always votes GOP on the broader issues, this started in the early 2000s under George Bush and the Republicans and has increased dramatically during his presidency and during the years the democrats were/are in charge.
2
This past cycle, there were three times the number of petitions than there were slots (the 85,000). Instead of really vetting these application to prevent this type of temporary training, our immigration office conducts a random lottery to choose "the winners". Many valuable workers who would have stayed to work in our country, pay taxes, and otherwise make positive contributions to our society, were denied visas. Countless of them were also educated here. I know this from personal experience. A dear young man who was graduated from Georgetown University was denied, even though he had long-term employment here, and would have been deported. He is now our wonderful son-in-law.
3
Yes, jobs are being lost to immigrants. Jobs are being lost to temp foreign workers, jobs are being lost to illegal aliens. Across all sectors of labor, across all skill and pay levels. This, is in fact the very reason immigration law was developed, and why strict enforcement is imperative to ensure the integrity of such law. There is no half way. No kinda sorta. There is no black or white. The laws are clear. The rules are obvious. And the consequence for ignoring, violating, or twisting the law is crystal clear. Politicians, law enforcement, and activists need to knock off the nonsense. The American population now knows better. Election day approaches. See you at the polls.
3
"Since New York Life is not a technology company, said Mr. Werfelman, the spokesman, it turned to outside contractors for the upgrade."
Outside contractors do not have to come from India. As, in the last few years, many companies laid off their technical staff, there is no shortage of American technology workers who would gladly lend their services to New York Life.
As long as there is no outrage expressed by ordinary citizens culminating in changing laws, this practice will continue, and companies will continue saying that they have a responsibility to their shareholders, ignoring, because they can and they are getting away with it, their responsibilities to the employees.
Outside contractors do not have to come from India. As, in the last few years, many companies laid off their technical staff, there is no shortage of American technology workers who would gladly lend their services to New York Life.
As long as there is no outrage expressed by ordinary citizens culminating in changing laws, this practice will continue, and companies will continue saying that they have a responsibility to their shareholders, ignoring, because they can and they are getting away with it, their responsibilities to the employees.
4
What? Do you mean bloodsucking capitalists in India would steal business secrets and techniques from bloodsucking capitalists here? Why, I thought all of these folks were supposed to be in league with one another and here they are competing and undercutting one another in the race to destroy jobs and the people dependent upon them, reduce earnings and harm families and children. Now I learn they are actually in competition to do this. Free marketers say that competition is a good thing and the international free traders and banksters agree with them. I guess this is "progress."
What has harmed so many Americans, of course, is the massive export of jobs to foreign labor markets. It has distorted the positive parts of the market process by separating labor and consumers. Unless goods are manufactured in the same market where they are sold and purchased you see terrible effects on job security, wages and everything that goes with them.
One city based on manufacturing after another in the U.S. has shut down just to keep the globalists and international business elites happy with their outsourcing and off-shoring, and in the process we have wound up funding Chinese military expansion and Chinese coal-burning electrical plant construction at the rate of a two or three startups a week. Way to go, one-worlders!
Our nation’s economy has got to serve the interests of American citizens first. When it fails to do that it becomes a blight upon the American people.
What has harmed so many Americans, of course, is the massive export of jobs to foreign labor markets. It has distorted the positive parts of the market process by separating labor and consumers. Unless goods are manufactured in the same market where they are sold and purchased you see terrible effects on job security, wages and everything that goes with them.
One city based on manufacturing after another in the U.S. has shut down just to keep the globalists and international business elites happy with their outsourcing and off-shoring, and in the process we have wound up funding Chinese military expansion and Chinese coal-burning electrical plant construction at the rate of a two or three startups a week. Way to go, one-worlders!
Our nation’s economy has got to serve the interests of American citizens first. When it fails to do that it becomes a blight upon the American people.
3
Based on recent news, lawmakers don't care about this issue.
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2985498/it-outsourcing/congress-set...
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2985498/it-outsourcing/congress-set...
1
Do not blame the Indian workers. Blame the corporations involved.
3
Employees are part of what makes a company excellent and profitable. We need to go back to the days when companies and their employees were loyal to each other in a culture that shared the same values with their clients. Shareholders do not contribute anything to enterprises and creativity and do not necessarily care what happens to the host country. Many times I've had to call with a service problem and the person across the phone line and the border mocked me and snubbed me when they could not understand my perspective and what is required and customary where I live. Moreover, sometimes I cannot even understand what they were saying.
3
First Disney, now Toys R Us, and we come to find out that Accenture, formerly sponsoring Tiger Woods, is in on it too. Corporate America is disgusting, and the Republicans are in on it. You want to see things change? Vote out every Republican lawmaker. It's easy to get rid of the Senators and Governors, it's the congressman, who have insulated themselves from the voters with gerrymandering, that are difficult to dislodge.
3
As a person who always votes GOP on the broader issues, this started in the early 2000s under George Bush and the Republicans and has increased dramatically during his presidency and during the years the democrats were/are in charge.
2
don't worry, Clinton and Obama are also big supporters of the H-1B visa program. That is the problem.
1
Why the moral outrage? These H1B visa holders are just doing jobs Americans refuse to do (for the going market wage). What the American labor force fails to acknowledge is the shrinking value of their skill set. There are millions of intelligent, hard-working people out there that could do their job adequately and are willing to do so at a lower price.
No one holding a "middle class" job is entitled to a "middle class" wage. Their work is worth the prevailing market rate, and the fairest way to set that rate is to liberalize economies. Shutting off H1B visas and immigration just benefits (relatively) rich American families to the detriment of poor foreign families. Why should an American earn a higher wage than an Indian for doing the same work? For a people who like to rail against the 1%, it's hypocritical to complain when the tables are turned.
You are simply witnessing Le Chatelier's principle in action. Unfortunately for the West, they are on the wrong side of the reaction.
No one holding a "middle class" job is entitled to a "middle class" wage. Their work is worth the prevailing market rate, and the fairest way to set that rate is to liberalize economies. Shutting off H1B visas and immigration just benefits (relatively) rich American families to the detriment of poor foreign families. Why should an American earn a higher wage than an Indian for doing the same work? For a people who like to rail against the 1%, it's hypocritical to complain when the tables are turned.
You are simply witnessing Le Chatelier's principle in action. Unfortunately for the West, they are on the wrong side of the reaction.
3
No, your logic is incorrect. Due to the cost of living, people here need more salary than someone living in India. Do you mean, these people who lost their jobs should have worked for $800/month to compete with people living in India, who at that salary can live a luxurious life?
1
I agee. Maybe we can also re-introduce indentured servatude too.
For one thing, it it cheaper to live in India than in the US where extended families share space. All our argument about moving our kids out to their own place instead of families sharing is one of the main reasons Americans think they need more money. Look at immigrant families and see how they live or how they live in other countries or how we used to live in this country. Just last night I was hearing in a conversation with old high school classmates how some had "boomerang" kids due to the economy and it seemed to be an embarrassment to them. When my daughter wanted to go back to school in middle age, we brought her to live with us and rented out her house which pays a lot of the costs. And we really enjoy being an extended family. Maybe our culture could use some readjustment!
Why the moral outrage? These H1B visa holders are just doing jobs Americans refuse to do (for the going market wage). What the American labor force fails to acknowledge is the shrinking value of their skill set. There are millions of intelligent, hard-working people out there that could do their job adequately and are willing to do so at a lower price.
No one holding a "middle class" job is entitled to a "middle class" wage. Their work is worth the prevailing market rate, and the fairest way to set that rate is to liberalize economies. Shutting off H1B visas and immigration just benefits (relatively) rich American families to the detriment of poor foreign families. Why should an American earn a higher wage than an Indian for doing the same work? For a people who like to rail against the 1%, it's hypocritical to complain when the tables are turned.
You are simply witnessing Le Chatelier's principle in action. Unfortunately for the West, they are on the wrong side of the reaction.
No one holding a "middle class" job is entitled to a "middle class" wage. Their work is worth the prevailing market rate, and the fairest way to set that rate is to liberalize economies. Shutting off H1B visas and immigration just benefits (relatively) rich American families to the detriment of poor foreign families. Why should an American earn a higher wage than an Indian for doing the same work? For a people who like to rail against the 1%, it's hypocritical to complain when the tables are turned.
You are simply witnessing Le Chatelier's principle in action. Unfortunately for the West, they are on the wrong side of the reaction.
9
No, your logic is incorrect. Due to the cost of living, people here need more salary than someone living in India. Do you mean, these people who lost their jobs should have worked for $800/month to compete with people living in India, who at that salary can live a luxurious life?
2
I agee. Maybe we can also re-introduce indentured servatude too.
For one thing, it it cheaper to live in India than in the US where extended families share space. All our argument about moving our kids out to their own place instead of families sharing is one of the main reasons Americans think they need more money. Look at immigrant families and see how they live or how they live in other countries or how we used to live in this country. Just last night I was hearing in a conversation with old high school classmates how some had "boomerang" kids due to the economy and it seemed to be an embarrassment to them. When my daughter wanted to go back to school in middle age, we brought her to live with us and rented out her house which pays a lot of the costs. And we really enjoy being an extended family. Maybe our culture could use some readjustment!
2
When will our representatives actually DO something about this scandal? Instead of beating up a women's health organization, maybe they should do something about these scofflaws. Perhaps a massive fine for every U.S. citizen laid off plus a mandatory salary and bonus cut for all upper management where these happen would discourage this kind f behaviour.
2
This has been happening all over, in too many jobs to count. Have you noticed the decline in media print copy? -- errors in grammar, typos, spelling? That's because editing jobs that previously paid a living wage now go to either untrained college students or are outsourced. My neighbor worked at a hospital as their tech writer for two decades, then was summarily fired at age 51, her job outsourced. She & her husband were actually fired the same year; they lost their home (they'd lived in for decades), & the husband finally found a lower paying job several states away. You can repeat this story by the thousands I'm sure.
While there is some value in the NYT's targeting specific companies - Toys R Us, here, & previously Disney - it is ultimately both disingenuous & counterproductive to do so, as it implies that this is a nefarious strategy by a handful of crooked companies. It is in fact the entire purpose of H-1B, including the supposedly "hard to find" tech jobs that could be filled by American workers in their 50s. It's also miraculous that no CEO is 'hard to find' but instead suddenly conforms to laws of supply & demand. Only for CEOs must the pay be exorbitant to 'keep' these amazingly talented rare specimen.
The entire H-1B program must be repealed. It has decimated the middle class & continues to be a drag on our economy. If there truly were a shortage in 'hard to find' tech jobs, train them, & pay more. That is how supply/demand should work.
While there is some value in the NYT's targeting specific companies - Toys R Us, here, & previously Disney - it is ultimately both disingenuous & counterproductive to do so, as it implies that this is a nefarious strategy by a handful of crooked companies. It is in fact the entire purpose of H-1B, including the supposedly "hard to find" tech jobs that could be filled by American workers in their 50s. It's also miraculous that no CEO is 'hard to find' but instead suddenly conforms to laws of supply & demand. Only for CEOs must the pay be exorbitant to 'keep' these amazingly talented rare specimen.
The entire H-1B program must be repealed. It has decimated the middle class & continues to be a drag on our economy. If there truly were a shortage in 'hard to find' tech jobs, train them, & pay more. That is how supply/demand should work.
4
The H-1b is a work-permit, and over the past few decades it has evolved. In the 80s and 90s, it was used to give immigrant grad students in the STEM areas a way to begin their careers in the US. Leading into the Y2K turmoil, it was also used to allow low-level coders into the US to fix the bug.
Since the turn of the century, H-1bs are being primarily used as THE most powerful lever to enable mass outsourcing. Every group of H-1b employees from an Indian firm is like the batallion hidden inside a Trojan horse. Once they arrive, their task is to overcome initial opposition and then have the gates of the city thrown wide open to true outsourcing, i.e. ship out huge quantities of jobs from the host company for execution in Bengaluru or Hyderabad. The onsite/offshore business model is working superbly for these outsourcing giants, but the ratio is never allowed to get worse than 1:4, which means only 20% of the work previously at the US location will now be executed onsite and the remaining 80% goes, you guessed it, offshore!! The H-1b visa is what these Trojan horse soldiers use while they are in the US shadowing and learning. It has morphed into a true 'poison pill' decimating mid-level professional employment in the US. Talk about unintended consequences!
Since the turn of the century, H-1bs are being primarily used as THE most powerful lever to enable mass outsourcing. Every group of H-1b employees from an Indian firm is like the batallion hidden inside a Trojan horse. Once they arrive, their task is to overcome initial opposition and then have the gates of the city thrown wide open to true outsourcing, i.e. ship out huge quantities of jobs from the host company for execution in Bengaluru or Hyderabad. The onsite/offshore business model is working superbly for these outsourcing giants, but the ratio is never allowed to get worse than 1:4, which means only 20% of the work previously at the US location will now be executed onsite and the remaining 80% goes, you guessed it, offshore!! The H-1b visa is what these Trojan horse soldiers use while they are in the US shadowing and learning. It has morphed into a true 'poison pill' decimating mid-level professional employment in the US. Talk about unintended consequences!
5
This is simply a matter of the few trying to make as much money as possible at the expense of the many while shunning morality and the common good. CEOs and central administrators make more and more; lesser employees make less and less as most of their work is outsourced. This country needs a strong critique of American business and American capitalism, a discussion that has been lacking in the wider public discourse for many years because American capitalism controls the public arena.
Such things happen domestically as well, in many different ways. A good productive employee might be tasked to train interns, for example; then, once they are trained, they replace that employee, cutting costs but preserving the profit of the company owner. This happened to a friend of mine; it was considered smart management.
As for the visas and the outsourcing, anyone who has worked in a company that outsources to, e.g., Thailand, will tell story after story about wasted productivity due to utter confusion caused by linguistic barriers to normally efficient communication. But the CEOs are laughing all the way to bank nonetheless because they have cut costs.
Such things happen domestically as well, in many different ways. A good productive employee might be tasked to train interns, for example; then, once they are trained, they replace that employee, cutting costs but preserving the profit of the company owner. This happened to a friend of mine; it was considered smart management.
As for the visas and the outsourcing, anyone who has worked in a company that outsources to, e.g., Thailand, will tell story after story about wasted productivity due to utter confusion caused by linguistic barriers to normally efficient communication. But the CEOs are laughing all the way to bank nonetheless because they have cut costs.
4
In the Global economy that is mobile, economic activity is going to move wherever return on capital is higher. Stop bellyaching and get ready to compete by educating the population instead of debating dead issues like Planned Parent Hood and whether Pope Francis is right about global warming and poverty.
Pope is right on both. Move on
Pope is right on both. Move on
I am of the very unpopular position that the H1-B visa program is fundamentally unfair. Why is the richest country in the world offering fast track immigration avenues to harvest the brightest minds from 3rd world countries? Doing so is proven to substantially debrain and destabilize the origin countries as those these countries have painstakingly educated at incredible expense are picked off right when they need to begin to bear fruit for their home countries.
Receiving the immediate productivity of people directly on arrival can, at best, be classified as socioeconomic theft. This only serves a few individual interests while destroying the whole. America can do better than being an a 'Cayman Islands' for foreign professionals.
Receiving the immediate productivity of people directly on arrival can, at best, be classified as socioeconomic theft. This only serves a few individual interests while destroying the whole. America can do better than being an a 'Cayman Islands' for foreign professionals.
3
There are no foreigners with skills you can't find in the US. As long as we have DARPA; we will never be surprised by technologies we don't know about. We have handed over fetal tissue research based technologies to other countries, sure, but what these companies can't find are well educated people willing to work dirt cheap. The whole H1B program needs scrapping. At this point, the whole problem is moot, as we will be automating everyone out of a job at least as fast as companies could outsource or insource jobs to cheaper labor. Is anyone out there figuring out what's next? The handful of owners of all the wealth will not be buying too much in the way of goods, and the rest of us won't have any jobs to get money to buy things to keep the economy going.
4
When will our representatives actually DO something about this scandal? Instead of beating up a women's health organization, maybe they should do something about these scofflaws. Perhaps a massive fine for every U.S. citizen laid off plus a mandatory salary and bonus cut for all upper management where these happen would discourage this kind f behaviour.
3
This has been happening all over, in too many jobs to count. Have you noticed the decline in media print copy? -- errors in grammar, typos, spelling? That's because editing jobs that previously paid a living wage now go to either untrained college students or are outsourced. My neighbor worked at a hospital as their tech writer for two decades, then was summarily fired at age 51, her job outsourced. She & her husband were actually fired the same year; they lost their home (they'd lived in for decades), & the husband finally found a lower paying job several states away. You can repeat this story by the thousands I'm sure.
While there is some value in the NYT's targeting specific companies - Toys R Us, here, & previously Disney - it is ultimately both disingenuous & counterproductive to do so, as it implies that this is a nefarious strategy by a handful of crooked companies. It is in fact the entire purpose of H-1B, including the supposedly "hard to find" tech jobs that could be filled by American workers in their 50s. It's also miraculous that no CEO is 'hard to find' but instead suddenly conforms to laws of supply & demand. Only for CEOs must the pay be exorbitant to 'keep' these amazingly talented rare specimen.
The entire H-1B program must be repealed. It has decimated the middle class & continues to be a drag on our economy. If there truly were a shortage in 'hard to find' tech jobs, train them, & pay more. That is how supply/demand should work.
While there is some value in the NYT's targeting specific companies - Toys R Us, here, & previously Disney - it is ultimately both disingenuous & counterproductive to do so, as it implies that this is a nefarious strategy by a handful of crooked companies. It is in fact the entire purpose of H-1B, including the supposedly "hard to find" tech jobs that could be filled by American workers in their 50s. It's also miraculous that no CEO is 'hard to find' but instead suddenly conforms to laws of supply & demand. Only for CEOs must the pay be exorbitant to 'keep' these amazingly talented rare specimen.
The entire H-1B program must be repealed. It has decimated the middle class & continues to be a drag on our economy. If there truly were a shortage in 'hard to find' tech jobs, train them, & pay more. That is how supply/demand should work.
5
The H-1b is a work-permit, and over the past few decades it has evolved. In the 80s and 90s, it was used to give immigrant grad students in the STEM areas a way to begin their careers in the US. Leading into the Y2K turmoil, it was also used to allow low-level coders into the US to fix the bug.
Since the turn of the century, H-1bs are being primarily used as THE most powerful lever to enable mass outsourcing. Every group of H-1b employees from an Indian firm is like the batallion hidden inside a Trojan horse. Once they arrive, their task is to overcome initial opposition and then have the gates of the city thrown wide open to true outsourcing, i.e. ship out huge quantities of jobs from the host company for execution in Bengaluru or Hyderabad. The onsite/offshore business model is working superbly for these outsourcing giants, but the ratio is never allowed to get worse than 1:4, which means only 20% of the work previously at the US location will now be executed onsite and the remaining 80% goes, you guessed it, offshore!! The H-1b visa is what these Trojan horse soldiers use while they are in the US shadowing and learning. It has morphed into a true 'poison pill' decimating mid-level professional employment in the US. Talk about unintended consequences!
Since the turn of the century, H-1bs are being primarily used as THE most powerful lever to enable mass outsourcing. Every group of H-1b employees from an Indian firm is like the batallion hidden inside a Trojan horse. Once they arrive, their task is to overcome initial opposition and then have the gates of the city thrown wide open to true outsourcing, i.e. ship out huge quantities of jobs from the host company for execution in Bengaluru or Hyderabad. The onsite/offshore business model is working superbly for these outsourcing giants, but the ratio is never allowed to get worse than 1:4, which means only 20% of the work previously at the US location will now be executed onsite and the remaining 80% goes, you guessed it, offshore!! The H-1b visa is what these Trojan horse soldiers use while they are in the US shadowing and learning. It has morphed into a true 'poison pill' decimating mid-level professional employment in the US. Talk about unintended consequences!
6
This is simply a matter of the few trying to make as much money as possible at the expense of the many while shunning morality and the common good. CEOs and central administrators make more and more; lesser employees make less and less as most of their work is outsourced. This country needs a strong critique of American business and American capitalism, a discussion that has been lacking in the wider public discourse for many years because American capitalism controls the public arena.
Such things happen domestically as well, in many different ways. A good productive employee might be tasked to train interns, for example; then, once they are trained, they replace that employee, cutting costs but preserving the profit of the company owner. This happened to a friend of mine; it was considered smart management.
As for the visas and the outsourcing, anyone who has worked in a company that outsources to, e.g., Thailand, will tell story after story about wasted productivity due to utter confusion caused by linguistic barriers to normally efficient communication. But the CEOs are laughing all the way to bank nonetheless because they have cut costs.
Such things happen domestically as well, in many different ways. A good productive employee might be tasked to train interns, for example; then, once they are trained, they replace that employee, cutting costs but preserving the profit of the company owner. This happened to a friend of mine; it was considered smart management.
As for the visas and the outsourcing, anyone who has worked in a company that outsources to, e.g., Thailand, will tell story after story about wasted productivity due to utter confusion caused by linguistic barriers to normally efficient communication. But the CEOs are laughing all the way to bank nonetheless because they have cut costs.
5
In the Global economy that is mobile, economic activity is going to move wherever return on capital is higher. Stop bellyaching and get ready to compete by educating the population instead of debating dead issues like Planned Parent Hood and whether Pope Francis is right about global warming and poverty.
Pope is right on both. Move on
Pope is right on both. Move on
but are not these educated employees who are having their jobs shipped out? Did you not read the article?
I am of the very unpopular position that the H1-B visa program is fundamentally unfair. Why is the richest country in the world offering fast track immigration avenues to harvest the brightest minds from 3rd world countries? Doing so is proven to substantially debrain and destabilize the origin countries as those these countries have painstakingly educated at incredible expense are picked off right when they need to begin to bear fruit for their home countries.
Receiving the immediate productivity of people directly on arrival can, at best, be classified as socioeconomic theft. This only serves a few individual interests while destroying the whole. America can do better than being an a 'Cayman Islands' for foreign professionals.
Receiving the immediate productivity of people directly on arrival can, at best, be classified as socioeconomic theft. This only serves a few individual interests while destroying the whole. America can do better than being an a 'Cayman Islands' for foreign professionals.
3
There are no foreigners with skills you can't find in the US. As long as we have DARPA; we will never be surprised by technologies we don't know about. We have handed over fetal tissue research based technologies to other countries, sure, but what these companies can't find are well educated people willing to work dirt cheap. The whole H1B program needs scrapping. At this point, the whole problem is moot, as we will be automating everyone out of a job at least as fast as companies could outsource or insource jobs to cheaper labor. Is anyone out there figuring out what's next? The handful of owners of all the wealth will not be buying too much in the way of goods, and the rest of us won't have any jobs to get money to buy things to keep the economy going.
5
This is a valuable report of true abuse of an immigration law that ordinarily one might expect Congress to take up. But, alas it is corporate America doing the abusing and there is no doctored video of a fetus to capture the imagination of the Republican Congress, so thanks NYT...next.
1
If only Congress was holding investigations and committees on stuff like this, instead of Planned Parenthood or Benghazi. But that's not the world we got, and it's not the world we keep voting for.
4
These are traitor companies putting profits over our national interest. They should be shunned. The public can and should in many cases boycott them and they should be disqualified from receiving government contracts. Furthermore the people should write these companies telling them they are enemies of American workers. I would suggest that people write to their congressperson but for now our government refuses to govern in the public interest.
2
In some customer service operations the B School geniuses run for the quick savings and leave their customers to attempt to communicate with someone on the other side of the globe. About half the time it works versus about 90% with US folks. They try but between the sometimes poor com links and the cultural differences its aggravating. It would be great for someone to publish which airlines and companies do this so we could appropriately reward those B school pros!
The Visa program has been abused without abatement and the companies and their lobbyists are campaigning to expand the program. It should be discontinued.
When will American voters see that "American" corporations have no loyalty to the nation or it's people. They will wave the flag to get contracts or sell products, but will knife their employees and the communities where they operate at every turn over nickels.
When will American voters see that "American" corporations have no loyalty to the nation or it's people. They will wave the flag to get contracts or sell products, but will knife their employees and the communities where they operate at every turn over nickels.
3
This is a valuable report of true abuse of an immigration law that ordinarily one might expect Congress to take up. But, alas it is corporate America doing the abusing and there is no doctored video of a fetus to capture the imagination of the Republican Congress, so thanks NYT...next.
1
If only Congress was holding investigations and committees on stuff like this, instead of Planned Parenthood or Benghazi. But that's not the world we got, and it's not the world we keep voting for.
4
These are traitor companies putting profits over our national interest. They should be shunned. The public can and should in many cases boycott them and they should be disqualified from receiving government contracts. Furthermore the people should write these companies telling them they are enemies of American workers. I would suggest that people write to their congressperson but for now our government refuses to govern in the public interest.
3
In some customer service operations the B School geniuses run for the quick savings and leave their customers to attempt to communicate with someone on the other side of the globe. About half the time it works versus about 90% with US folks. They try but between the sometimes poor com links and the cultural differences its aggravating. It would be great for someone to publish which airlines and companies do this so we could appropriately reward those B school pros!
The Visa program has been abused without abatement and the companies and their lobbyists are campaigning to expand the program. It should be discontinued.
When will American voters see that "American" corporations have no loyalty to the nation or it's people. They will wave the flag to get contracts or sell products, but will knife their employees and the communities where they operate at every turn over nickels.
When will American voters see that "American" corporations have no loyalty to the nation or it's people. They will wave the flag to get contracts or sell products, but will knife their employees and the communities where they operate at every turn over nickels.
3
If Americans want their jobs I guess they will have to do what they did in the past, unionize and boycott.
39
And hope they don't live in Wisconsin!
If Americans want their jobs I guess they will have to do what they did in the past, unionize and boycott.
93
And hope they don't live in Wisconsin!
Or, as their ancestors did, emigrate to someplace else.
The whole point of demonizing unions can be seen in the ensuing outsourcing of jobs. Breaking up unions has been keeping the ordinary American worker powerless. Years ago unions had strikes, and what a battle that was! The education of our students is deficient in learning this important history, much of which has has been forgotten as that generation passes away.
And by the way, the outsourcing to India raises the Indian standard of living, which is much lower than the U.S. and will make our workers on a par with the Indian people. (However, not with the execs facilitating this outsourcing, needless to say!) The only real advantage I see here is for the Indian women who now have jobs in India as never before, which is changing their culture on the place of women in their society.
And by the way, the outsourcing to India raises the Indian standard of living, which is much lower than the U.S. and will make our workers on a par with the Indian people. (However, not with the execs facilitating this outsourcing, needless to say!) The only real advantage I see here is for the Indian women who now have jobs in India as never before, which is changing their culture on the place of women in their society.
1
The more we see details like this in the news, the better. I can happily boycott ToysRUs now with this knowledge, but it would be nice to know the other firms I should avoid.
4
The more we see details like this in the news, the better. I can happily boycott ToysRUs now with this knowledge, but it would be nice to know the other firms I should avoid.
4
What seems to be truly remarkable is that certain of these outsourcing firms obtain hundred and even thousands of visa's for their employees. Yet, UCSIS tells us that H-1B is awarded via a random, lottery system. Either these firms are very lucky, or they are flooding the system with tens of thousands of requests, or they have someone on the inside.
6
What seems to be truly remarkable is that certain of these outsourcing firms obtain hundred and even thousands of visa's for their employees. Yet, UCSIS tells us that H-1B is awarded via a random, lottery system. Either these firms are very lucky, or they are flooding the system with tens of thousands of requests, or they have someone on the inside.
7
I find the argument of requiring "specialized skills" or an "advanced degree in STEM" in favor of H1B visas weak and an insult to the American worker. You can't tell me that workers couldn't be trained (by companies) in such areas?
Oh, I guess it would require a long term commitment to the employee by the employer. It is extremely sad how short-sighted these companies are.
Oh, I guess it would require a long term commitment to the employee by the employer. It is extremely sad how short-sighted these companies are.
3
I find the argument of requiring "specialized skills" or an "advanced degree in STEM" in favor of H1B visas weak and an insult to the American worker. You can't tell me that workers couldn't be trained (by companies) in such areas?
Oh, I guess it would require a long term commitment to the employee by the employer. It is extremely sad how short-sighted these companies are.
Oh, I guess it would require a long term commitment to the employee by the employer. It is extremely sad how short-sighted these companies are.
3
I just cannot comprehend NYT's philosophy on Immigration. It is okay for millions of Latin Americans to just cross the fence and get amnesty. It is okay for us to invite hundreds and thousands of Syrians without background checks. But it is not okay for Temporary professionals from India to come and take part in a business model(Onsite-Offshore) that is not their making. This model was initiated and propagated by American corporate's. Very saddened to see a total prejudice perspective on several issues like European Migrants, Amnesty for Illegals and H1b's from NYT.
2
Worry not, in a few days or weeks the Editorial Board will call for an increase in the number of H-1B visas, claiming they don't really harm wages in America, but only increase innovation and bring in new talent. The NYT's has moved away from journalism and into advocacy. It's remarkable that this story made it into the paper, given their stance on open borders.
1
I just cannot comprehend NYT's philosophy on Immigration. It is okay for millions of Latin Americans to just cross the fence and get amnesty. It is okay for us to invite hundreds and thousands of Syrians without background checks. But it is not okay for Temporary professionals from India to come and take part in a business model(Onsite-Offshore) that is not their making. This model was initiated and propagated by American corporate's. Very saddened to see a total prejudice perspective on several issues like European Migrants, Amnesty for Illegals and H1b's from NYT.
1
Worry not, in a few days or weeks the Editorial Board will call for an increase in the number of H-1B visas, claiming they don't really harm wages in America, but only increase innovation and bring in new talent. The NYT's has moved away from journalism and into advocacy. It's remarkable that this story made it into the paper, given their stance on open borders.
2
Yes, the NYT flips on this... Expect it.
Almost every single toy in a Toys r us store is manufactured in China, so this hue and cry when 67 overpaid accounting Jobs are outsourced as well. If the job is routine enough to be copied in 90 days then forget about H1B threat, AI systems will take it over in ten years. The real issue here is the equitable distribution of fruits of technology enabled economic growth. Do only the corporate bosses have a right to its fruits, or do societies have a say on it as well?
2
Almost every single toy in a Toys r us store is manufactured in China, so this hue and cry when 67 overpaid accounting Jobs are outsourced as well. If the job is routine enough to be copied in 90 days then forget about H1B threat, AI systems will take it over in ten years. The real issue here is the equitable distribution of fruits of technology enabled economic growth. Do only the corporate bosses have a right to its fruits, or do societies have a say on it as well?
2
This is occurring all too often and damaging the H1B visa program which could have the intended benefits. A good example is when an international student comes to the U.S. for an advanced degree and clearly has something to contribute. Yet, because of the widespread abuse of the program by outsourcing firms, many companies are not able to hire these graduates out of U.S. schools. See our story on how this impacts MBA graduates in the U.S.
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/06/21/h-1b-visa-cap-making-it-more-diffic...
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/06/21/h-1b-visa-cap-making-it-more-diffic...
3
This is occurring all too often and damaging the H1B visa program which could have the intended benefits. A good example is when an international student comes to the U.S. for an advanced degree and clearly has something to contribute. Yet, because of the widespread abuse of the program by outsourcing firms, many companies are not able to hire these graduates out of U.S. schools. See our story on how this impacts MBA graduates in the U.S.
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/06/21/h-1b-visa-cap-making-it-more-diffic...
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/06/21/h-1b-visa-cap-making-it-more-diffic...
3
And who decides who gets into grad school... Another issue for another day.
Can we outsource Congress? Pretty please?
2
“After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. I am strongly of the opinion that the great majority of people will always find these the moving impulses of our life.
Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,” he said. “But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it...But it calls for additional effort to avoid even the appearance of the evil of selfishness. In every worthy profession, of course, there will always be a minority who will appeal to the baser instinct. There always have been, probably always will be, some who will feel that their own temporary interest may be furthered by betraying the interest of others."
President Coolidge - on January 17, 1925
Most Americans have been betrayed, not by business but by politicians they elect, who sold them out in the name of "free trade" - NAFTA, WTO - in which America's "comparative advantage" was inventiveness, innovation, and capital. Not labor!
As long as American remain social "values" voters first, even as their economic well being declines, nothing can stop the supremacy of global corporate interests. No matter what politicians and the courts say, corporations can never be human because they have only one "value" - profits!
Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,” he said. “But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it...But it calls for additional effort to avoid even the appearance of the evil of selfishness. In every worthy profession, of course, there will always be a minority who will appeal to the baser instinct. There always have been, probably always will be, some who will feel that their own temporary interest may be furthered by betraying the interest of others."
President Coolidge - on January 17, 1925
Most Americans have been betrayed, not by business but by politicians they elect, who sold them out in the name of "free trade" - NAFTA, WTO - in which America's "comparative advantage" was inventiveness, innovation, and capital. Not labor!
As long as American remain social "values" voters first, even as their economic well being declines, nothing can stop the supremacy of global corporate interests. No matter what politicians and the courts say, corporations can never be human because they have only one "value" - profits!
3
You need a litmus test for Presidential candidates? Here it is. The H1-B program has become nothing but a cruel joke on American workers and those who are looking for jobs in many an area, not just technology. Too many employers would rather hire people they can bring in and control with the threat of deportation, often via a Federal detention center, than hire U.S. citizens or green card holders who can 'only' (only?!) be fired for daring to be anything other than complaint, almost infinitely enduring robots with little need for a personal life or even sleep. That oft-heard, dreariest of money mantras, 'To compete with China, be like China' has come to its ugly fruition. The only sane recourse for our voters, who still cannot (yet) be denied the right to vote for lack of a job (At least until the corporate puppets in Congress pass a Soviet-style 'hooliganism' law, anyway), is to vote against any candidate who would keep this horror on the books. It is long past time for H1-B to go down to its well-deserved bottomless perdition.
1
When the American people view the "outsourcing" debacle going on since 1980 of American jobs thrown away the benefit of the Cayman Island Leveraged buyout crowd (and their politician clients) as an assault on America's National Security, the guilty will begin to pay.
1
Can we outsource Congress? Pretty please?
2
“After all, the chief business of the American people is business. They are profoundly concerned with producing, buying, selling, investing and prospering in the world. I am strongly of the opinion that the great majority of people will always find these the moving impulses of our life.
Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,” he said. “But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it...But it calls for additional effort to avoid even the appearance of the evil of selfishness. In every worthy profession, of course, there will always be a minority who will appeal to the baser instinct. There always have been, probably always will be, some who will feel that their own temporary interest may be furthered by betraying the interest of others."
President Coolidge - on January 17, 1925
Most Americans have been betrayed, not by business but by politicians they elect, who sold them out in the name of "free trade" - NAFTA, WTO - in which America's "comparative advantage" was inventiveness, innovation, and capital. Not labor!
As long as American remain social "values" voters first, even as their economic well being declines, nothing can stop the supremacy of global corporate interests. No matter what politicians and the courts say, corporations can never be human because they have only one "value" - profits!
Of course, the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence,” he said. “But we are compelled to recognize it as a means to well-nigh every desirable achievement. So long as wealth is made the means and not the end, we need not greatly fear it...But it calls for additional effort to avoid even the appearance of the evil of selfishness. In every worthy profession, of course, there will always be a minority who will appeal to the baser instinct. There always have been, probably always will be, some who will feel that their own temporary interest may be furthered by betraying the interest of others."
President Coolidge - on January 17, 1925
Most Americans have been betrayed, not by business but by politicians they elect, who sold them out in the name of "free trade" - NAFTA, WTO - in which America's "comparative advantage" was inventiveness, innovation, and capital. Not labor!
As long as American remain social "values" voters first, even as their economic well being declines, nothing can stop the supremacy of global corporate interests. No matter what politicians and the courts say, corporations can never be human because they have only one "value" - profits!
3
You need a litmus test for Presidential candidates? Here it is. The H1-B program has become nothing but a cruel joke on American workers and those who are looking for jobs in many an area, not just technology. Too many employers would rather hire people they can bring in and control with the threat of deportation, often via a Federal detention center, than hire U.S. citizens or green card holders who can 'only' (only?!) be fired for daring to be anything other than complaint, almost infinitely enduring robots with little need for a personal life or even sleep. That oft-heard, dreariest of money mantras, 'To compete with China, be like China' has come to its ugly fruition. The only sane recourse for our voters, who still cannot (yet) be denied the right to vote for lack of a job (At least until the corporate puppets in Congress pass a Soviet-style 'hooliganism' law, anyway), is to vote against any candidate who would keep this horror on the books. It is long past time for H1-B to go down to its well-deserved bottomless perdition.
2
When the American people view the "outsourcing" debacle going on since 1980 of American jobs thrown away the benefit of the Cayman Island Leveraged buyout crowd (and their politician clients) as an assault on America's National Security, the guilty will begin to pay.
1
sure they are temp once they train them they have the job. Company love to cut the small employee pay but never the CEO. We can thank all the hedge fund who keep buying up companies like this and do cut nothing but cut jobs in this counties Warren Buffet and 3G are great for this now everyone is follow their lead
Boycott Toy R us this year and just make them disappear all together
Boycott Toy R us this year and just make them disappear all together
1
There is a great way to get this issue front and center in the national debate.
How?
Donald Trump makes a big deal out of taking advantage of -- even gaming -- existing laws for his benefit, laws which appear to many to be focused on achieving personal and corporate good to the detriment of the common good. Tax and bankruptcy laws are his soi-disant examples.
So ....
Ask Donald Trump on the stump or in a debate what he thinks about corporations gaming the visa system?
Given his overall stance -- pose? -- on immigration, and the fact that, as a domestic-based real estate mogul, he has no particular skin in this game, he will predictably lambaste what is going on in this gaming scenario.
And then the other Republicans will be forced to stand up and shout that they are even "purer" than Donald Trump is in this regard.
It will be particularly interesting to see Carly Fiorina squirm on this one.
"Ms. Fiorina, When you were CEO, did anything like this go on at HP? Or were you too busy diluting shareholder value by buying Compaq to notice"
Anyway, this will put the issue on the table, at least for one bright shiny moment.
And then the smarmy lobbying will ensue.
Not that this will reform the abuse 100%. Nobody is that starry eyed about rolling back overweening corporate privilege.
But at least some modest reform might result.
"So, The Donald, what do you think should be done about corporations who are currently gaming this part of the visa system?"
How?
Donald Trump makes a big deal out of taking advantage of -- even gaming -- existing laws for his benefit, laws which appear to many to be focused on achieving personal and corporate good to the detriment of the common good. Tax and bankruptcy laws are his soi-disant examples.
So ....
Ask Donald Trump on the stump or in a debate what he thinks about corporations gaming the visa system?
Given his overall stance -- pose? -- on immigration, and the fact that, as a domestic-based real estate mogul, he has no particular skin in this game, he will predictably lambaste what is going on in this gaming scenario.
And then the other Republicans will be forced to stand up and shout that they are even "purer" than Donald Trump is in this regard.
It will be particularly interesting to see Carly Fiorina squirm on this one.
"Ms. Fiorina, When you were CEO, did anything like this go on at HP? Or were you too busy diluting shareholder value by buying Compaq to notice"
Anyway, this will put the issue on the table, at least for one bright shiny moment.
And then the smarmy lobbying will ensue.
Not that this will reform the abuse 100%. Nobody is that starry eyed about rolling back overweening corporate privilege.
But at least some modest reform might result.
"So, The Donald, what do you think should be done about corporations who are currently gaming this part of the visa system?"