I am speechless at the barbaric behavior of Hungary which, considering its past when the world came to its rescue from the invading Soviet army, is treating oppressed people in a similar way. These refugees from Syria and other war-torn countries are not seeking refuge in Hungary--God forbid anyone would want to live their under the present government; they are seeking transit through the country to caring, welcoming nations like Germany and Sweden. How quickly you have forgotten, Hungary.
1
To me, this is a horribly difficult issue to come to terms with. I remember when the Lebanese civil was was in full-swing some 40 years ago and our then Prime Minister, the late Mr Malcolm Fraser, allowed thousands of refugees into this country from Lebanon. At the time I thought that this was the right and humane thing to do. However over the intervening decades it has been apparent that many Lebanese have been involved in much criminality and anti-social activity. Those with a Lebanese Muslim background seem to be particularly prominent in this regard.
The plight of many of these latest refugees is truly tragic; however as I see it virtually all of the refugees are very poorly educated and have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the beliefs of a religion that is set in the dark ages. They simply know no better. When they arrive in the west they start making demands that we should accommodate those beliefs. If we show any reluctance to dance to their tune then we are immediately labelled as 'racists'. Hence. I am very circumspect when it comes to allowing large numbers of these people into our society.
Experience in the U.K. and Europe indicates that many of them are not prepared to integrate into the mainstream and embrace the culture and mores of their new homes.
I expect that my view will attract some vehement criticism, but that is O.K. My mind is open to change by arguments that are logical and reasonable. There are no easy solutions to this issue.
The plight of many of these latest refugees is truly tragic; however as I see it virtually all of the refugees are very poorly educated and have been thoroughly indoctrinated with the beliefs of a religion that is set in the dark ages. They simply know no better. When they arrive in the west they start making demands that we should accommodate those beliefs. If we show any reluctance to dance to their tune then we are immediately labelled as 'racists'. Hence. I am very circumspect when it comes to allowing large numbers of these people into our society.
Experience in the U.K. and Europe indicates that many of them are not prepared to integrate into the mainstream and embrace the culture and mores of their new homes.
I expect that my view will attract some vehement criticism, but that is O.K. My mind is open to change by arguments that are logical and reasonable. There are no easy solutions to this issue.
9
In addition to major concerns regarding what will happen to those stuck in limbo without resources, there's some other disturbing observations. First is Merkel's open door policy without consideration for consequences including, as a result, the increase in numbers of immigrants now stuck due to changes in border policy (like bait and switch) and the unfair impact her thoughtful/thoughtless invitation is having on other EU countries; Second are migrants rather than being destitute as would be expected coming from war torn areas, having large amounts of money to pay traffickers or even to just make the trek; Third and most disturbing are the huge number of innocent suffering children having been irresponsibly conceived and born during the ravages of war without consideration for their welfare, their needs, their fragile vulnerabilities during such dangerous unstable times.
7
As woman living in Europe, I enjoy at least a striving toward equality between men and women, I can enjoy my life as a professional women, I can relish my freedom, my financial independence, my opportunities, my culture, I can make my way home from a concert or social function late at night by myself on public transportation without fear. I was an immigrant to the US--I had to adapt. I enjoyed the CA melting pot.
I am well within my rights to worry about large numbers of people entering my progressive, forward-thinking, secular country and dragging along a view of women as second-or lower-class citizens, inferior to men.
I am well within my rights to worry about large numbers of people entering my progressive, forward-thinking, secular country and dragging along a view of women as second-or lower-class citizens, inferior to men.
29
I'm afraid that this wall will prove itself useless, just like the rest of its predecessors:
https://nicichiarasa.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/the-second-awakening/
https://nicichiarasa.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/the-second-awakening/
The difference between immigrants coming to the US at the turn of the twentieth century, and this migration is an important one. These folks all want to flock to Germany because of the generous welfare benefits. Folks coming through Ellis Island were not coming to American for generous welfare benefits. Quite the opposite. The US government was not going to support them. You notice these people aren't screaming to go to places where the welfare benefits are not generous. Also, when the Ellis Island folks came through, their objective was to become American. They learned the language, and adopted the American way of life. They didn't expect America to accommodate them, they made the adjustments. Do you think these migrants have any intention of abandoning their Middle Eastern ways and adopting Western values? Not likely. I don't blame some of these European countries for not wanting to have their culture disrupted, and for not wanting their tax money spent supporting outsiders. I also don't see any Muslim countries stepping up to the plate and taking these folks.
13
Assimilating these Muslims will be a challenge as their customs are so different from most Europeans. I do feel sorry for Hungary and the other European countries with the large numbers of immigrants flooding into their countries. How will they absorb all the people into such small spaces? They will cost these countries a fortune and deplete their already shrinking resources. What a disaster and it will only get worse.
8
Not to forget 59 years ago ~200,000 refugee left Hungary virtually overnight, mostly for Austria, and thousands more were imprisoned. As this NATO report confirms, the transition was challenging on many levels: http://bit.ly/1UP4SBI
1
Hungary's excellent spokesman, Zoltan Kovaks, in han interview with CNN, showed a very, very good command of English, and his level-headed logic was refreshing. CNNi seemed to be accusing Hungary of being cold hearted by erecting border barriers, but Kovaks pointed out that, normally, refugees do not dictate where they will go, and they do not barge through countries like an invading army. Kovaks also pointed out that the refugees are hundreds and hundreds of kilometers from a war zone, so claims of fleeing said war zone no longer apply. Europeans must get visas to visit many countries, and they must visit embassies or consulates to do get visas. This process has worked successfully for generations. Refugees, once they are in safe lands, cannot then force their way to where ever they choose. Europeans (and other lands) have moral obligation to assist the host nation giving sanctuary to refugees from war-torn lands, but they are not obligated to let hordes of refugees cross national borders with impunity. This is logic, not politics. Now, putting logic aside for a minute, I would like to add a personal observation: many of these refugees act as though they have been training for an invasion: do real refugees just ignore a nation's police (who are handing them water and food) orders to sit down and be processed? Certainly not tired, frightened refugees who are grateful for having been allowed into a land after fleeing a war zone!
26
I am surprised that two risks are rarely discussed in the media.
WINTER IS COMING. We will see these poor souls freezing to death in the news.
How do we filter out the jihadis from the truly secular immigrants?
WINTER IS COMING. We will see these poor souls freezing to death in the news.
How do we filter out the jihadis from the truly secular immigrants?
1
Hungary has learned from observation what the USA unfortunately has learned by experience: once you let them in, you'll never get them out.
4
The European seem to keep falling into the same trap dealing with what they essentially created by allowing the corporate powers and austerity measures more weight than good all common sense. Quit the using the failed ideas of the right wing and treat people with respect.
I also think it is in our best interest to do the same here in the USA.
I also think it is in our best interest to do the same here in the USA.
“When I was a child, my teachers told me that we are all brothers in the Arab world,” he said. “But now, I have to say I found new brothers in Europe.”
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar...what are you doing for your brothers?
Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar...what are you doing for your brothers?
7
Ironically, thousands of Kosovars are joining in the parade to Western Europe. That implies that there is vacant housing and a need for labor of some sort in Kosovo. How about paying Kosovo to take in refugees? It might be a net plus for Kosovo, and at least the cultures are similar.
2
One could easily lose faith in human beings, reading the mean-spirited comments from so many of these readers. And most of them are armchair experts with little real knowledge of the facts. My ancestors came to the U. S. In the 1880s in order to find a better way of life. They could have remained in Germany, but immigrated and were welcomed. Many of the readers could cite similar stories, but they apparently think these ancestors' motives were illegitimate--that seems strange to me.
Another point: Many of the problems in the Middle East have been caused or exacerbated by Western attempts for 150 years to determine the course of events in that region. In some important ways, we are reaping the seeds that Britain, France, and the U. S. have sown.
Another point: Many of the problems in the Middle East have been caused or exacerbated by Western attempts for 150 years to determine the course of events in that region. In some important ways, we are reaping the seeds that Britain, France, and the U. S. have sown.
3
@Phil Hefner: The comments defending Hungary's right to defend itself are not mean spirited. You are making up thoughts for others, which aren't there at all.
Reading the same comments, Phil, I gain even more faith in human beings, the kind that try to defend their country from those who try to enter it by force. Such action is normally called "invasion", and yet you condone it?
Your comparison with immigration 100 years ago is totally invalid. These people had to apply for permits to enter, had to get papers of acceptance, and very often had to have someone in US to guarantee their initial upkeep.
Claiming that many current problems have been caused by Western actions 150 years ago is a purely theoritical extrapolation. It's a typical academic exercise: worthy but not applicable until proven. How our actions relate to this migration? Well, the obvious one is Obama's withdrawal from Iraq after the war was won, and he himself declared it a stable country.
Reading the same comments, Phil, I gain even more faith in human beings, the kind that try to defend their country from those who try to enter it by force. Such action is normally called "invasion", and yet you condone it?
Your comparison with immigration 100 years ago is totally invalid. These people had to apply for permits to enter, had to get papers of acceptance, and very often had to have someone in US to guarantee their initial upkeep.
Claiming that many current problems have been caused by Western actions 150 years ago is a purely theoritical extrapolation. It's a typical academic exercise: worthy but not applicable until proven. How our actions relate to this migration? Well, the obvious one is Obama's withdrawal from Iraq after the war was won, and he himself declared it a stable country.
8
Yes these refugees need to be given safe shelter but to immigrate permanently and become a European citizen is another matter. A temporary visa that lets them work perhaps.
Statehood and religion are not separate in nearly all Muslim countries. Integrating them in Europe will be very hard.
I wish the Arab nations do their part.
Statehood and religion are not separate in nearly all Muslim countries. Integrating them in Europe will be very hard.
I wish the Arab nations do their part.
6
Hungarians do what the local and European law requires them to do:
Secure their borders and the EU's and Schengen borders
Hungary, unlike Greece, still executes the law and still tries to maintain it's state.
Any state that will not try to hold on to it's borders and defend them has given up.
This is an invasion and not a refugee crisis.
These are illegal migrants that have no right to enter Hungary or the EU.
Their demands are based on their wish to be cared for by infidels whom their holy book says are no more than slave in the eye of their god.
Not defending the borders would mean a breach of law and the abandonment of statehood in Hungary.
It is time to defend Europe and send those illegal migrants back to where they came from.
Secure their borders and the EU's and Schengen borders
Hungary, unlike Greece, still executes the law and still tries to maintain it's state.
Any state that will not try to hold on to it's borders and defend them has given up.
This is an invasion and not a refugee crisis.
These are illegal migrants that have no right to enter Hungary or the EU.
Their demands are based on their wish to be cared for by infidels whom their holy book says are no more than slave in the eye of their god.
Not defending the borders would mean a breach of law and the abandonment of statehood in Hungary.
It is time to defend Europe and send those illegal migrants back to where they came from.
10
to all non-indigenous Americans and Australians bellyaching that these people are just searching for a better life in a nicer/richer country, what do you think your ancestors were doing? that was OK then was it?
3
The radicalization of European Muslims and their difficulties integrating with native Europeans especially in France (!) makes you think 2x, 3x, ..., many times before you welcome the refugees. With open arms. Permanently.
Can't they have temporary visas that can be renewed every year instead of giving them permanent resident status? Some type of visa wherein they have to go back once Syria is free from Assad, ISIS, fill in the blank it is that plagues them.
Can't they have temporary visas that can be renewed every year instead of giving them permanent resident status? Some type of visa wherein they have to go back once Syria is free from Assad, ISIS, fill in the blank it is that plagues them.
3
The oil money in the hands of the Arab Muslims. It has been used to buy the media and mess with people’s head, to make them open doors to instill a sense of shame and guilt to be used for leverage.
To convince the people, hordes of single young between 18 to 40 years, in designer jackets with iPhones are all starving ‘refugees’. Pictures of a little dead baby used gleefully and shamelessly to whip-up sentiments to bulldoze all obstacles. The press has informed people that they are closet fascists and xenophobes for objecting to these people trampling into their lives; they are told it’s ridiculous to be wary of these young men. Men who have so far lived in a society that has given them no more than a glimpse of a woman’s ankle and indoctrinated into believing that any women who shows more, is a loose woman who deserves to be taken advantage of.
The press has managed to draw an imaginary line between the so called refugees and the chaos they have created in their home counties. As if the chaos is not of their making. That these are people who believe in freedoms and democracy, running away from extremists persecuting them. Extremists who are not made from them, but from some alien race, following a different religion and ideology from the so called refugees. The press has invested victimhood on the very people, whose beliefs lead to the intolerant society they are fleeing from, still carrying with them the same beliefs that will automatically destroy any place they flee to
To convince the people, hordes of single young between 18 to 40 years, in designer jackets with iPhones are all starving ‘refugees’. Pictures of a little dead baby used gleefully and shamelessly to whip-up sentiments to bulldoze all obstacles. The press has informed people that they are closet fascists and xenophobes for objecting to these people trampling into their lives; they are told it’s ridiculous to be wary of these young men. Men who have so far lived in a society that has given them no more than a glimpse of a woman’s ankle and indoctrinated into believing that any women who shows more, is a loose woman who deserves to be taken advantage of.
The press has managed to draw an imaginary line between the so called refugees and the chaos they have created in their home counties. As if the chaos is not of their making. That these are people who believe in freedoms and democracy, running away from extremists persecuting them. Extremists who are not made from them, but from some alien race, following a different religion and ideology from the so called refugees. The press has invested victimhood on the very people, whose beliefs lead to the intolerant society they are fleeing from, still carrying with them the same beliefs that will automatically destroy any place they flee to
In Germany all asylum seekers are entitled to complete support without a cutoff date. If accepted and remain in the country the support continues. That means Germany will house, clothe, feed, educate (Kindergarten to university) and financially support every individual who remains in Germany (even those who are temporarily here). This is no small task and there are simply limits, physically and financially! Especially because the infrastructure is not built to accommodate the masses that have entered Germany and other parts of Europe in the last days. It is true that there is war and poverty in the whole world, but it is naive to think that Germany can accept endless streams of migrants and asylum seekers. Even if there were little or no financing for migrants and asylum seekers the sheer masses of people cannot even be housed. The infrastructure will certainly change with the new situation but it needs some time. The growing resistance of many citizens of Germany, including foreign born is that the overwhelming masses of people who are coming through that need to be financially supported. What is not endearing to Germans is the attitude of some migrants who feel "entitled". It is not enough to be fed, housed and given a new start, but to accept only to Germany or Sweden because "we get the most". If I am naked I am grateful for a shirt. For some that is not good enough it has to be a Gucci shirt! This is the message we are hearing. It is not endearing.
30
First it was a thousand a day. Then 2,000, then 3,200, 4,800, 5,600 and now it is 9,000 a day. Still doesn't sounds like so much as we are so used to millions and billions a "thousand" no longer scares us. Then let's put it this way, at 9,000 "migrants" a day, Europe is looking at 3,285,000 illegals immigrants a year in additional to legal immigration from those nations. In 4 years there would be more illegals in Europe than the 11 million illegals in the U.S.
EU have a population of 500 million. If 3,285,000 illegals how many million legal immigrants are moving to Europe than more than 1% of Europe's population turn non-European. Taking into account the 10% of EU that's already from Middle East/North Africa, by 2050, there would be less European in Europe than Arabs.
EU have a population of 500 million. If 3,285,000 illegals how many million legal immigrants are moving to Europe than more than 1% of Europe's population turn non-European. Taking into account the 10% of EU that's already from Middle East/North Africa, by 2050, there would be less European in Europe than Arabs.
4
Get a big ship and take the migrants to the Red Ssea off Saudi Arabia. Put the migrants in small boats they can take to the Saudi Arabian coast and let's see how the Saudis deal with all these migrants landing on their shores.
12
When the "migrants" arrive, do they ask to be placed with German families or in German neighborhoods so that they can assimilate and become German-speaking good neighbors? Or do they want to stay with their countrymen in "settlements," so they can continue to speak Arabic and follow Middle Eastern customs?
I wonder what will happen when female "migrants" see how nice it is to be a female European. How will their menfolk react to them wanting to be European.
I wonder what will happen when female "migrants" see how nice it is to be a female European. How will their menfolk react to them wanting to be European.
3
I've been listening to the BBC, NPR, reading NYT and WSJ - and I find it interesting that the media personalities are 100% in support of the migration. No concern about the concern of EU citizen - unless it is to demonize them as bigots lacking compassion. The people being interviewed are either migrants or NGO members - it's all completely one-sided.
There is little perspective on other Muslim countries - especially in the Gulf - who tend to make such a big deal about Arab unity. No reports about the despicable actions of Serbs who are shuttling the migrants to other countries as quickly as they can.
There is little perspective on other Muslim countries - especially in the Gulf - who tend to make such a big deal about Arab unity. No reports about the despicable actions of Serbs who are shuttling the migrants to other countries as quickly as they can.
4
Some of these images tug at the heart strings of the compassionate nature of western countries. Sadly however, judging by the huge number of young adult males within the ranks of the refugees, it is all but a certainty that extremists are imbedded among them. Countries would be wise to control their borders and set up relocation centers where thorough background checks can be made which will hopefully reduce the threat. Refugees may not like it, but they are in no position to demand anything. Security is a reality every country must take seriously. Anything less is putting their own citizens at risk.
20
I'm still confused, like I have said before, as to why Hungary, or any European country, for that matter, "has" to take in these migrants. The New York Times, while sitting a continent away, has been steadily chastising these countries for not opening their doors wide open to anyone who wants to come in. This does not help or behoove any country to do so. I'm glad that countries in Europe are starting to realize that they do, in fact, have borders and can allow who they want and disallow who they don't want into their nations. The Schengen Zone was never designed for immigrants and migrants, but for pre-existing EU citizens. There is absolutely zero legal basis or right for these people to storm into and invade the EU.
7
Reading all those statements from humanitarian NGO and officials I want to apply for asylum in Switzerland, Monaco, Liechtenstein or Norway. Apparently if I show up at a nation's border claiming to be refugee they will have to accept me and provide me with resources they grant their citizens. If they don't, I think I can sue them at their human rights courts. Talk about having my cake and eat it too.
I don't know who wrote the original law but wow did they left big holes for people to abuse. Why do illegals bother coming to the U.S.? Use the same money they pay for fake marriage/investment/snake head and head to Europe. Salvation is only a plane ride and a hour's walk away.
I don't know who wrote the original law but wow did they left big holes for people to abuse. Why do illegals bother coming to the U.S.? Use the same money they pay for fake marriage/investment/snake head and head to Europe. Salvation is only a plane ride and a hour's walk away.
6
But the illegals in the States won't get free stuff especially if they can't get a Social Security number.
We were in Germany this summer and noticed quite a few very elderly persons scavaging through the trash containers in the food court and rental car areas of the Munich airport.
Whether impoverished, or mentally ill, or both, they seemed to have fallen through a hole in the social safety net.
So why is Merkel extending this largesse towards hordes of migrants, at taxpayers' expense? She's not simply imposing a huge economic burden on citizens, but also destroying their country as they know it.
Besides the inevitable culture clash and potential security threat, migrants from these backgrounds have a high fertility rate. 500,000 today can equal 5 million in short order.
How can so many find employment? Assimilate? Protect resources and the environment? How will they avoid developing resentment and hostility toward the host country?
Whether impoverished, or mentally ill, or both, they seemed to have fallen through a hole in the social safety net.
So why is Merkel extending this largesse towards hordes of migrants, at taxpayers' expense? She's not simply imposing a huge economic burden on citizens, but also destroying their country as they know it.
Besides the inevitable culture clash and potential security threat, migrants from these backgrounds have a high fertility rate. 500,000 today can equal 5 million in short order.
How can so many find employment? Assimilate? Protect resources and the environment? How will they avoid developing resentment and hostility toward the host country?
7
If you closely look at the first picture, which is really representative of what is going on, you will see mostly young men. The media has flooded the internet and TV with pictures of women looking distressed and babies crying. This leads caring people to think that this is a huge humanitarian crisis and women and children are going to die if they don't get to Germany or Sweden. That is not entirely correct. Those men are, in my view, part of an invasion force and European countries should save their citizens from what will come in the future.
The problem in Syria could have been solved long ago with coordinated efforts by the US and others. Now Russia, who sees ISIS as the problem in the region, not Assad, will straighten it out for the world. We should have, and still could, worked with them and others to prioritize the problems, solved the most dangerous one, ISIS, then turned and taken care of Assad. Our leadership in foreign policy matters is in tatters.
The problem in Syria could have been solved long ago with coordinated efforts by the US and others. Now Russia, who sees ISIS as the problem in the region, not Assad, will straighten it out for the world. We should have, and still could, worked with them and others to prioritize the problems, solved the most dangerous one, ISIS, then turned and taken care of Assad. Our leadership in foreign policy matters is in tatters.
6
One major difference between the asylums of decades past and today is the difficulty of integration has increased dramatically. Gone are thr factory jobs with minimal training. Everything is either service which pays poorly or mental which pays normal but which takes years of training. It's a lot more difficult to accept refugees now that economies have become so specialized and competitive.
7
Germany's decision lead to the fact that now many countries of the European Union are suffering. The decision to accept thousands of refugees, who will pass through other EU countries, is a very short-sighted. Germany will not be able to contain all of them in a way that it does not go to the detriment of its citizens, not to mention the fact, this does not contribute directly to the solution of the problem, the only chance to stop the increase in the number of refugees is to stop the war in the Middle East.
8
I have read many of these comments. Most are detailed, cogent and seemingly reasonable. Many are also blindly self-interested and utterly terrifying. Is it really up to Germany and Austria, of all places, to attempt to save these desperate people from genocide in the Middle East and looming ethnic cleansing in Southern Europe? Where will the Hungarians go when Russia decides once again to save them?
1
As an additional example of the chaos here. Last week many migrants entered a supermarket here in Dresden. They simple loaded bags of groceries and left the store without paying. Nobody stopped them. The next day the store was closed, because it is unclear how the store can deal with this. Arrest everyone? There has to be some order. You cannot simply enter someone's country and behave this way. Eventually there has to be a political and diplomatic solution so that people can live and thrive in their home countries. Mass migration is not a long term solution.
21
It's very hard to believe that the migrants don't know it's wrong to steal. Since most are Muslim and stealing can be punished by having a hand amputated under Sharia. What this shows is the contempt that they have for Germany and non Muslims. They should have been quickly arrested and punished under German law. That would show them they will be treated like everyone else in Germany.The fact that the migrants have not been punished for stealing will only embolden them. I predict many more problems in Germany related to anti social behavior by the migrants.
Against the backdrop of the two decade long satisfactory experience of transnational unity the idea of Europe could prove to be so fragile as to be threatened by the pulls of territory, sovereignty, and even faith was practically unthinkable until the present refugee crisis came knocking at the door of Europe. Hopefully, like many a crisis in recent past this too would pass soon with the collective efforts, wisdom, and resolve of the European leadership.
2
This is an amazing historical replay. The Muslims invade and the Europeans fight among themselves. At least Hungary knows what to do. Too bad for Hungary NATO membership is worthless. Anybody up for some more German leadership?
33
Invade is what the US has done, serially, to contribute to this crisis. This is not an invasion, and in calling it that and you appear to be justifying reprisals against people fleeing war
"Anybody up for some more German leadership?"
I'm German. I have never voted for CDU. But I'm inclined to do so at the next elections here.
My answer to your question? No, Germany should not lead the EU. It should, rather, leave the EU (and friends like you, Sharkie in Boston).
I'm German. I have never voted for CDU. But I'm inclined to do so at the next elections here.
My answer to your question? No, Germany should not lead the EU. It should, rather, leave the EU (and friends like you, Sharkie in Boston).
It is obvious that these migrants are not just seeking a safe haven, but that they are seeking a safe haven WITH generous welfare benefits.
52
you mean like jobs and schools for their kids? how dare they.
After reading in the New York Times how Christians are being persecuted in areas controlled by ISIS, I would urge any government accepting refugees to give priority to Christians as well as gay men and lesbians, who also face the harshest treatment.
41
After women and children?
I don't quite understand Hungary's policy of closing borders and harassment. Migrants have no plans of staying in Hungary. They're just using it as a passageway. Let them go through and let the country's who want to take migrants deal with the visa and entrance issue. Why are they taking up the role of gatekeepers and frontier guards if migrants are not posing any "threat" to their little country? On the contrary, let them go through and spend some money in food, train tickets, etc. What is the problem? Am I missing something on the logistics here?
10
Yes. Hungary is responsible for protecting the border of the EU. The migrants were given free train rides north to Austria. I do not have the specific EU regulation at hand but the Hungarian Prime Minister is in the right.
8
It's because Austria and Germany are closing THEIR borders so Hungary doesn't want people getting stuck and piling up on its territory. This exact situation is now happening in next-door Serbia, even though the migrants would rather not stay there.
6
Yes, the logistics you miss is that as of Monday Germany had shut its border with Austria. The Austrians shut their border. The Hungarians had already shut their border, so Serbia is where the backlog of people heading to Germany are.
6
The idea has been posited that Germany's Angela Merkel is sensitive, as are many Germans, to the lingering suspicion on Germany and its people from the days of Hitler and the Holocaust. As she said recently about the immigration crisis and how it is being handled 'the eyes of the world are watching'.
She has been said to be sensitive as well to the perception that Germany has been unusually harsh and austere in its treatment of some of its EU compatriots, especially with austerity measures promoted by primarily Germany, which has helped cause a cratering of the economy of Greece and a splintering of its government.
It is understandable that Germany wishes to move away from an image it had after the second World War, and their movement toward being perceived more humanely is understandable.
But would it not be far better rather than accepting a huge influx of migrants into Germany and pressuring other EU nations to accept a quota of migrants to working toward rebuilding countries in the EU itself which have undergone great hardships over the past decade? Perhaps like our own country, precious funds and resources should be directed toward ensuring a better and more stable life for its own rather than continually acting as the world’s guardian and protector.
She has been said to be sensitive as well to the perception that Germany has been unusually harsh and austere in its treatment of some of its EU compatriots, especially with austerity measures promoted by primarily Germany, which has helped cause a cratering of the economy of Greece and a splintering of its government.
It is understandable that Germany wishes to move away from an image it had after the second World War, and their movement toward being perceived more humanely is understandable.
But would it not be far better rather than accepting a huge influx of migrants into Germany and pressuring other EU nations to accept a quota of migrants to working toward rebuilding countries in the EU itself which have undergone great hardships over the past decade? Perhaps like our own country, precious funds and resources should be directed toward ensuring a better and more stable life for its own rather than continually acting as the world’s guardian and protector.
15
And who counts as "your own"? Is the criteria racial or socio economic? Do you take it for granted that someone born elsewhere has a life are worth less than yours?
Your penny pinching argument also ignores the fact that resources applied to refugees hace greater impact in terms of human Wellbeing and decelopment than basically any normal expense a government has. Certainly more than end of life care for the elderly in Medicare or the Canadian health system, for example
Your penny pinching argument also ignores the fact that resources applied to refugees hace greater impact in terms of human Wellbeing and decelopment than basically any normal expense a government has. Certainly more than end of life care for the elderly in Medicare or the Canadian health system, for example
This situation is likely to go on for another decade. Also, a large portion of the people flooding into Europe are not Syrians but Afghans and folks from a range of other places. Thousands of people are applying for passports in Kabul every day and have been for months. Eventually all this is going to come to a head but the current crop of Western leaders, all from the priveleged class, are kicking the can down the road. Sure, let them in. Our working poor with whom they will be living will surely welcome them? Two oppressed wives in tow, no worries, our politically correct crowd will make sure you can maintain your cultural identity. The best solution is to fix the problem in Syria but the West lacks the imagination on how to do that so all these folks who are now demanding a better life will come to Europe, open their shops and build their mosques. Hopefully they won't put their children into religious schools and they will instead become good young Germans, or better yet will return to the countries their parents fled and help rebuild society there once the fighting has stopped, if that day ever comes.
21
So what if they open up their shops and mosques? Isn't that a good thing, showing they're willing to prosper and not become beggars on the street?
5
Such as in the ghettos of France where "migrants" have not assimilated?
So basically that is the best we have. The solution is to resettle the entire Middle East and North Africa into Europe? And feel delighted that they are going to open mosques!
I'm a bit puzzled here. Syria shares a long border with Turkey, a fellow Muslim country. Why aren't the Turks, and other Islamic countries taking them in? Would that be too Christian for them?
9
http://news.yahoo.com/saddled-2-million-syrian-refugees-turkey-shows-sig...
It would be very Christian of you not to spread lies.
It would be very Christian of you not to spread lies.
8
Turkey is over flowing with refugees, its the rich Arab nations like UAE, Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc which refuse to take any
7
In terms of UNHCR Turkey is the largest taker of refugees. What is your problem with Turkey?
More funny: Saudi Arabia wishes to help Syrian refugees. The king has offered 200 million US$ to Germany for building 200 mosques in Germany.
More funny: Saudi Arabia wishes to help Syrian refugees. The king has offered 200 million US$ to Germany for building 200 mosques in Germany.
It's absolutely tragic that on one side there are groups of people indiscriminately killing off their own countrymen for the sole reason of not being firmly on their side while on the other side people with vastly different religious and ethnic backgrounds who have no stake whatsoever in the genocide, and are mostly well-meaning and willing to help have to deal with the insurmountable tides of migration. The urgency and humanitarian aspects of this crisis are of course undeniable yet deep down in the mind of every rational politician in the countries on the receiving end, the possibility of even a handful of these migrants or refugees becoming radicalized later on once they can settle down somewhere is no less important and should never be ruled out.
I have read somewhere about a famous and controversial American economist who about 2 or 3 decades ago warned about the danger of overpopulation that he believed if left unchecked would endanger the livelihood of the entire world's population. This may be one of the ways it is manifesting itself.
I have read somewhere about a famous and controversial American economist who about 2 or 3 decades ago warned about the danger of overpopulation that he believed if left unchecked would endanger the livelihood of the entire world's population. This may be one of the ways it is manifesting itself.
28
It appears obvious reading comments here that most people are against this mass migration, yet the media continues to provide a one-sided view of supporting the "plight" of the migrants/ refugees. This includes British and US newspapers and most US cable TV. Are they afraid to be labeled as "bigots" and "racists", if they do not support the "refugees"? Is this politically correctness or something more? I am tired of it.
I question as to why suddenly in the past few months this mass emigration to Europe became a major news story, even though the war in Syria has been raging on for 4 years? What changed? Or, as we read that Germany accepted about half a million people in 2014, may be the word got around that Germany is giving free handouts and every body who could escape mayhem and blood shed in their home country ran like there is no tomorrow. The Iraqis, Afghanis and Pakistanis also jumped into the bandwagon.
It seems obvious that for many this is also an excellent opportunity to leave their hopeless lives in their home countries to run for the wealth of the western Europe. The problem with letting a million refugees into Western Europe is that ten times more would be on their way. Can Europe or USA take in every person who does not feel that they have a good life in their home country? Worse even, most of the these refugees do not seem to know what exactly is the underlying cause of strife that they are running from? Hint: what causes your brain to stagnate.
I question as to why suddenly in the past few months this mass emigration to Europe became a major news story, even though the war in Syria has been raging on for 4 years? What changed? Or, as we read that Germany accepted about half a million people in 2014, may be the word got around that Germany is giving free handouts and every body who could escape mayhem and blood shed in their home country ran like there is no tomorrow. The Iraqis, Afghanis and Pakistanis also jumped into the bandwagon.
It seems obvious that for many this is also an excellent opportunity to leave their hopeless lives in their home countries to run for the wealth of the western Europe. The problem with letting a million refugees into Western Europe is that ten times more would be on their way. Can Europe or USA take in every person who does not feel that they have a good life in their home country? Worse even, most of the these refugees do not seem to know what exactly is the underlying cause of strife that they are running from? Hint: what causes your brain to stagnate.
63
guess we should have those words carved onto the Statue of Liberty's tablet rubbed out then.
The oil money in the hands of the Arab. It has been used to buy the media and mess with people’s head, to make them open doors, to accept inequality as normal, to instill a sense of shame and guilt to be used for leverage, to wave accusations of islamophobia and racism to halt debates or criticisms, to squash the voice of reason, to convince the people, hordes of single young men in the age group of 18 to 40 in designer jackets with iPhones are all starving ‘refugees’. Pictures of a little dead baby used gleefully and shamelessly to whip-up sentiments to bulldoze all obstacles. The press has informed people that they are closet fascists and xenophobes for objecting to these people trampling into their lives; they are told it’s ridiculous to be wary of these young men. Men who have so far lived in a society that has given them no more than a glimpse of a woman’s ankle and indoctrinated into believing that any women who shows more, is a loose woman who deserves to be taken advantage of.
WOW - look at the accompanying article with no comment section entitled: "Charities Say U.S. Should Take Tens of Thousands of Syrians". Charities are lobbying Washington to taken in 100,000 of these people!
I think that immigration needs to be a democratic process, not some frivolous or bleeding heart executive decision, a politician being generous with my sons' future.
I think that immigration needs to be a democratic process, not some frivolous or bleeding heart executive decision, a politician being generous with my sons' future.
28
Well done Hungary! Angela Merkel opens the door to all Syrian refugees, guess what happens, "je sui Syrian refugee" free for all. I have much respect for you Angela but you have to admit you made an error of judgement and send them back.
18
“When I was a child, my teachers told me that we are all brothers in the Arab world,” he said. “But now, I have to say I found new brothers in Europe.”
This is what's somehow scary. These thousands of migrants have been indoctrinated since childhood with the idea that as Moslems, they share common cause with other Moslems, particularly of their own ethnicity.
Now one man declares a solidarity with those who have let him in; but how long before the religious bonds reassert themselves and he feels disrespected for his inability to live by traditional Moslem values? One can only imagine how well cultural assimilation would go for the man stopped at the Hungarian border with his two wives.
I believe that it's a grave mistake to let this vast migration take place. It will destabilize Europe.
This is what's somehow scary. These thousands of migrants have been indoctrinated since childhood with the idea that as Moslems, they share common cause with other Moslems, particularly of their own ethnicity.
Now one man declares a solidarity with those who have let him in; but how long before the religious bonds reassert themselves and he feels disrespected for his inability to live by traditional Moslem values? One can only imagine how well cultural assimilation would go for the man stopped at the Hungarian border with his two wives.
I believe that it's a grave mistake to let this vast migration take place. It will destabilize Europe.
50
Being a brother to someone doesn't mean you are an enemy to others. Brotherhood can only be a good thing, and it's mainly a religious kind of brotherhood, it doesn't mean they're going to form a joint country or something.
If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many countries fighting each other in Middle East right now, they would've been one huge Union if what you're saying was right.
If that was the case, there wouldn't be so many countries fighting each other in Middle East right now, they would've been one huge Union if what you're saying was right.
4
Have you noticed that very few of us are sobbing about your sob stories?
33
This situation isn't much different than an estimated 12 million from Central America now illegally in the USA. They aren't trying to make their home country better. They aren't trying to assimilate. They are demanding "rights" and taking welfare for their "citizen" children, as well as SSI and other benefits. When Reagan declared amnesty most didn't apply. Deal with it Europe, protect what you can and give away the rest. Expect your wages to go stagnant and your standard of living to drop - just like USA.
26
Yeah sure, blame it on the immigrants, don't blame it on Enron, 10 years and trillions of dollars spent on war in Iraq, et cetera et cetera.
5
seems to me it's the rich, white, Christian corporate leaders & their back pocket demagogues that have created that problem for you.
How did the people of Syria and the region act when the shoe was on the other foot?
In the late 1940s, hundreds of thousands of refugees made their way to the Middle East. They had lost everything. They only asked that they be left in peace on a very small piece of land.
Did the people of Syria and the Arab world welcome them? Did they offer them housing, food, cash, and acclimation to the local culture? Did they shame their compatriots who thought the refugees did not belong there?
On the contrary. Not only did they prevent them from settling in peace, they attacked members of the same religion who had lived in the region years. The equivalent would be if Germany not only refused Syrians entry, but rioted and executed Syrians who had been there generations. This was the universal reaction in Syria and across the Arab world. Syria is still legally at war with those refugees and their descendents, and all facets of Syrian society denounce them vile terms.
While the opposition is right to denounce Assad, I've certainly heard nothing to suggest they would be accept those European refugees on their border. I lament they are being slaughtered by their own people (though, why after this many years, can the young men who can plan and execute a trip of thousands of miles not organize themselves to defend their own country?).
But given their uncompassionate history, current anti-Semitism, and astonishing sense of entitlement, they get very little sympathy from me.
In the late 1940s, hundreds of thousands of refugees made their way to the Middle East. They had lost everything. They only asked that they be left in peace on a very small piece of land.
Did the people of Syria and the Arab world welcome them? Did they offer them housing, food, cash, and acclimation to the local culture? Did they shame their compatriots who thought the refugees did not belong there?
On the contrary. Not only did they prevent them from settling in peace, they attacked members of the same religion who had lived in the region years. The equivalent would be if Germany not only refused Syrians entry, but rioted and executed Syrians who had been there generations. This was the universal reaction in Syria and across the Arab world. Syria is still legally at war with those refugees and their descendents, and all facets of Syrian society denounce them vile terms.
While the opposition is right to denounce Assad, I've certainly heard nothing to suggest they would be accept those European refugees on their border. I lament they are being slaughtered by their own people (though, why after this many years, can the young men who can plan and execute a trip of thousands of miles not organize themselves to defend their own country?).
But given their uncompassionate history, current anti-Semitism, and astonishing sense of entitlement, they get very little sympathy from me.
35
Arabs are a semitic people, how can they be anti-semitic? Besides, you're comparing 1940s to 2015, well... You give your support to Germany now, and you know what Germany did to the people you're referring to in the 40s... If you were consistent, you would've said "OK Arabs, time to give revenge on Germany for what they did to Jews in 1940s" but no, you're cherry picking because it suits your narrow agenda ;-)
3
Merkel made the decision to open the door to the migrants. Well, Merkel is among the 1% in Germany. She doesn't take subway or public transportation, where terrorists may strike. She has body guards. She doesn't live in the same neighborhood as the migrants. She doesn't need to compete with migrants for jobs. Her decision is not fair to the ordinary German citizens. She said "it's the right thing to do." I think not.
52
Amen to that. I would be totally upset to be a German or any European, and the governments start letting in hundreds of thousands of people, especially Muslim men from ISIS controlled areas. This is chaos. There is already big unemployment problems across the EU-where are all the jobs going to come from for these people? They quoted a migrant, "I am not a terrorist"-how do you tell? Most have no paperwork, many are pretending to be Syrian, so they are lying about where they are coming from-is it too paranoid to wonder if they would lie about their intentions? Europe cannot simply roll over and let the Middle East and Africa just invade the continent.
29
I am European and I'm not afraid of refugees. You live in the USA, very far away, please don't meddle into European affairs and try to be more compassionate to the people who have lost everything. You never know when you might be in the same situation, begging for help from one place to another.
Every race, nation and ethnicity has evil people in it, but it's us the "good folks" that need to stick together and weed out the evil minority that rides behind the curtains. Don't be a tool, pls.
Every race, nation and ethnicity has evil people in it, but it's us the "good folks" that need to stick together and weed out the evil minority that rides behind the curtains. Don't be a tool, pls.
7
Most of the people I see in long shots of the refugees are young men. The media is deceiving us into thinking that there are a great many women and children in the crowds. There are not. I bet these countries are wondering about the wisdom of letting large numbers of Muslim young men into their country.
4
While the media/propaganda sector of the Disguised Global Crony-Capitalist Empire here in the U.S. metropole of the Empire has covered every conceivable aspect of the Middle East wars refugee crisis, the amazing thing is that this distractive media has never even suggested the underlying truth that the U.S. instigated wars in multiple countries is the proximate cause of all this refugee crisis, and of the tens of thousands of civilian deaths since 2003.
9
Could I have a translation of this into English?
4
@Doris, Alan is saying, in a roundabout way, this situation is really all our fault so we need to just shut up already.
This is a problem for the entire world and the entire world must take a role in responding. So far, that response has been limited to the creation of a quota system for distribution of refugees. More is needed, especially leadership.
I am amazed at the virulence of the comments here against the refugees and how many people seem absolutely assured that admitting them is wrong. It is easy to be certain about others if you think you will never be in their shoes, but, some day, we ourselves might need help.
One step that might lessen the flow westward is to make clear that not everyone is going to get to Germany, nor other countries of choice, for that matter. This could be accomplished by setting up a lottery system with no appeals permitted as to the results, once people had registered. As with Hurricane Katrina, people could be moved without knowing where they would be landing.
We should not forget that this crisis came into focus because people, including children, are dying as they try to escape. That problem can be addressed by having a boat and airplane transportation system in N. Africa and Turkey that would take refugees to a third country for processing, followed by transportation to their assigned destinations. The world can also provide assistance for those who remain in Jordan and Turkey, perhaps at a higher level than those who go elsewhere.
These problems are not insurmountable. They only appear to be when weak politicians try to deal with them.
I am amazed at the virulence of the comments here against the refugees and how many people seem absolutely assured that admitting them is wrong. It is easy to be certain about others if you think you will never be in their shoes, but, some day, we ourselves might need help.
One step that might lessen the flow westward is to make clear that not everyone is going to get to Germany, nor other countries of choice, for that matter. This could be accomplished by setting up a lottery system with no appeals permitted as to the results, once people had registered. As with Hurricane Katrina, people could be moved without knowing where they would be landing.
We should not forget that this crisis came into focus because people, including children, are dying as they try to escape. That problem can be addressed by having a boat and airplane transportation system in N. Africa and Turkey that would take refugees to a third country for processing, followed by transportation to their assigned destinations. The world can also provide assistance for those who remain in Jordan and Turkey, perhaps at a higher level than those who go elsewhere.
These problems are not insurmountable. They only appear to be when weak politicians try to deal with them.
16
@Doug Terry:
Yes, a problem for the entire world. Obama was very quick to go UN, bypassing congress, to lift sanctions on Iran. Why doesn't he go to UN now, and arrange distribution of migrants around the world? Why not countries like Brazil, Iran, India, Russia, South Africa? Why should EU alone suffer?
Sure, transport costs will be high, but that's where UN can really help and pay for them.
Yes, a problem for the entire world. Obama was very quick to go UN, bypassing congress, to lift sanctions on Iran. Why doesn't he go to UN now, and arrange distribution of migrants around the world? Why not countries like Brazil, Iran, India, Russia, South Africa? Why should EU alone suffer?
Sure, transport costs will be high, but that's where UN can really help and pay for them.
8
This is a million-strong wave of fighting-age Moslem men with some women and children in tow leaving safe countries for an easier life, not refugees, not asylees.
52
Strange people are banging at your front door demanding to be let in, provided with housing, health care, etc etc. And would you let them in? If you do, good for you but you pay for it at your expense not the taxpayer.
28
In 1970 and 1971. About 10 Million refugees from Bangladesh crossed into India. In December 1971 the Indian Army crossed the border. 15 days later a new nation Bangladesh was formed. The refugees were returned. The indian Army was gone in less than a year. An occupying army gone in less than a year. Yes it can be done.
The great nations and their armies and and diplomats stand by while millions of Syrians leave Syria. The big five (permanent members) in he UN Security Council are Britain, Russia, France, USA and China.. Big boys step up to the plate .... What should be done ? Help to alleviate the conditions that cause the Syrians to leave and let them sort out their own country thereafter.
Pakistan was not real happy that Bangladesh was formed out of East Pakistan. Yes, they got over it. Kind of.
Bangladesh is vibrant democracy. Yes, it has problems Syria will not become perfect overnight either.
The great nations and their armies and and diplomats stand by while millions of Syrians leave Syria. The big five (permanent members) in he UN Security Council are Britain, Russia, France, USA and China.. Big boys step up to the plate .... What should be done ? Help to alleviate the conditions that cause the Syrians to leave and let them sort out their own country thereafter.
Pakistan was not real happy that Bangladesh was formed out of East Pakistan. Yes, they got over it. Kind of.
Bangladesh is vibrant democracy. Yes, it has problems Syria will not become perfect overnight either.
21
I hope somebody in a position of power reads your comment. Thank you
1
Hungary has been flouting the rule of law for the last 5 years. The Hungarian government is NOT defending its country—it is only defending the people who support the ruling party.
Right now Hungary is doing a successful job of demonizing the Syrians and others crossing the border. But it has also done a successful job of demonizing me. I am Hungarian-American. I am proud of my heritage, but the ruling government there is not. They have revoked recognition of my religion.
All of these commenters who think Hungary is defending the rule of law or the importance of border have not been following the situation there.
You may or may not like the people streaming across the border of Europe, but that doesn't mean you should defend the Hungarian government without understanding it.
Talpra magyar.
Right now Hungary is doing a successful job of demonizing the Syrians and others crossing the border. But it has also done a successful job of demonizing me. I am Hungarian-American. I am proud of my heritage, but the ruling government there is not. They have revoked recognition of my religion.
All of these commenters who think Hungary is defending the rule of law or the importance of border have not been following the situation there.
You may or may not like the people streaming across the border of Europe, but that doesn't mean you should defend the Hungarian government without understanding it.
Talpra magyar.
5
Wrong. When it comes to the wave of migrants from Syria, the Hungarian government is defending its country. You seem to have a personal beef with its government which has no bearing on this situation.
36
And you seem to have a personal beef with the people coming from Syria and other countries.
What part of my statement is wrong? What are your thoughts on the Hungarian supreme court or the media law?
Hundreds of people are defending the Hungarian government because they don't like the refugees, or whatever you want to call them. Much of this discussion is exactly on the Hungarian government. Just because the refugees might be wrong doesn't make the Hungarian government right.
What part of my statement is wrong? What are your thoughts on the Hungarian supreme court or the media law?
Hundreds of people are defending the Hungarian government because they don't like the refugees, or whatever you want to call them. Much of this discussion is exactly on the Hungarian government. Just because the refugees might be wrong doesn't make the Hungarian government right.
2
@RaulRothblatt: Yours is the typical left wing response, distorting what was said and weaving fantasies you insist on imposing on others.
It was YOU who complained about Hungary's government; so you have a beef with them and your comment is no longer impartial. You have an axe to grind. The Syrians did nothing wrong to me, I have no complaints about them, and thus I don't have any beef with them.
I have no thoughts on the Hungarian Supreme court nor whatever media law you are talking about. They are irrelevant.
Here is one thing you distorted: "All of these commenters who think Hungary is defending the rule of law…". No. These commenters are defending the right of Hungary to protect it's citizens. And none of us have to understand Hungarian government in order to take their side when they carry out the prime directive of every government: protect its citizens.
It was YOU who complained about Hungary's government; so you have a beef with them and your comment is no longer impartial. You have an axe to grind. The Syrians did nothing wrong to me, I have no complaints about them, and thus I don't have any beef with them.
I have no thoughts on the Hungarian Supreme court nor whatever media law you are talking about. They are irrelevant.
Here is one thing you distorted: "All of these commenters who think Hungary is defending the rule of law…". No. These commenters are defending the right of Hungary to protect it's citizens. And none of us have to understand Hungarian government in order to take their side when they carry out the prime directive of every government: protect its citizens.
1
Europeans have a legitimate concern about immigrants who want to come to a country with secular civic institutions, but who have no experience supporting such institutions and who, in fact, may undermine them..
47
The Hungarian government has been working to undermine democratic values and has been especially vicious in its attacks on secular civic institutions.
If you are concerned with democracy, civility and European values, then you should be concerned with the five year record of the current Hungarian government.
You may or may not like the Syrians and others coming into Europe. That doesn't mean that Hungary is not part of the problem.
If you are concerned with democracy, civility and European values, then you should be concerned with the five year record of the current Hungarian government.
You may or may not like the Syrians and others coming into Europe. That doesn't mean that Hungary is not part of the problem.
5
In reading the Times, please note a companion article which indicates charities from leading American aid groups are lobbying the White House for increased asylum quotas. Conveniently, no comment section has been provided. As a consequence, it would be imperative for the American public to register their opinion on the matter. Intense pressure, the reverse of the article's intent, should be expressed to insure the Obama Administration continues the course in non-intervention. Special interests are now attempting to circumvent the natural course of our nation's decisions.
22
There is a movement underfoot to influence the populace in Canada that we should bring in the migrants. Retired General Rick Hillier on TV advocating for 50,000 by Christmas, with cruise ships to be used for this purpose.
This migrant crisis should inspire Europe, as well as other countries to help resolve the civil war in Syria, and thus help stem the millions of refugees fleeing this unfortunate land. Just about the entire world, including disparate powers such as the US, Europe, Turkey, Iran, Russia, China, have had it with the barbaric ISIS, so for the very life of me I can't understand why they don't form a military alliance to take out ISIS. If they formed such a coalition, ISIS would be history in a few weeks. Then Assad would need to go next (although Iran and Russia may not agree here).
10
I think everyone agrees it's time. We stood by and watched genocide of Shiites, Christians and Alawites. Here's the thing, are we going to try that hypocritical "nation building" nonsense again? Time to go there and punish these war criminals and genocide perpetrators. Then send these folks back home to rebuild.
7
Since it was the United States that set the Middle East aflame perhaps we should be accepting most of the refugees.
9
At your house.
21
The Middle East has been 'aflame' for more than 1000 years.
Ilinois is most welcome to accept 'most of the refugees' though, as that is no doubt what you meant.
Ilinois is most welcome to accept 'most of the refugees' though, as that is no doubt what you meant.
19
No, it was Israel and the Arab countries that set the mid-east aflame.
6
Reality is that no nation can sustain the tidal wave of people from the middle east and Africa who have simply decided to march to Europe. It looks like Germany and Hungary have finally figured this out. Why is that the very rich Muslim countries including Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the Emirates are not taking in these people or contributing massive aid or both? A tragedy is, had the US taken out Isis which it easily could have done, this tidal wave would not have taken place. We are so naïve. We did not commit to destroy Isis and have done almost nothing. Instead, we made a foolish treaty with a Muslim country that is dedicated to destroy the US, Iran. But, now our country will end up taking in Syrians and others when we can not afford the 12 million illegals already here. What more can the present administration do to undermine this country? There is another year to find out.
39
Does "taking more Syrians into the U.S." require Congressional approval? Or this administration can make decision by the Oval Office alone? We don't want to bring in more Muslim. Instead, we should go to UN to find a solution to defeat the ISIS so the Syrian migrants can live / stay in their homeland and in their own culture!
Now I see why Donald Trump's poll number is so high!
Now I see why Donald Trump's poll number is so high!
Bravo Hungary! They have every right to defend their sovereignty and culture. As well as telling Angela Merkel that Hungary is *not* a lackey state of Berlin to be told to turn your nation into a freeway for anyone who wants to pass thru without checks or hindrance.
38
Hungary has been attacking the sovereignty of its neighbors for the past 5 years. The Hungarian government has been attacking Hungarian culture that it doesn't like. I love my Hungarian heritage, but I will not be a lackey of the Hungarian government as it tramples on my culture.
Please do more research on Hungary before defending its government. You may or may not like the Syrians and others streaming across the border, but that doesn't mean that Hungary is a defender of the rule of law.
Please do more research on Hungary before defending its government. You may or may not like the Syrians and others streaming across the border, but that doesn't mean that Hungary is a defender of the rule of law.
1
Can anyone among NYT readers provide the names of several good overseas Websites that are providing true, accurate reportage on the migrant/refugee crisis in Europe? I would particularly like to read about how the local populace is reacting to this free-for-all and the prospect of carrying the burden for these illegal millions. I understand that many comment sections of the European mass media--by which I mean the equivalent of the NYT--have been shut down to silence the negative reaction of Europeans to this unwieldy situation.
Someone, please respond so we can read for ourselves what our fellows in Europe are saying.
Someone, please respond so we can read for ourselves what our fellows in Europe are saying.
31
The Guardian has comment sections open, with commenters from all over Europe, not just the UK. That is the best I can find.
3
I'm European and I am telling you this: the far-right activists are gathering online, spreading hate and misinformation, true humanists are on the streets either helping the refugees through Red-Cross or some other way. You can stay locked inside your house, believing whatever you want, but Europe is welcoming refugees on the field, these online voices of hate and bigotry are only that: voices.
Peace!
Peace!
You can check 'Spiegel online' - they also have an English language page. The FAZ is a good resource. This is the most respected newspaper in Germany. The covergae is accurate and neutral, the opinion columns are on the conservative side.
'ORF 2' has live news coverage from all the border crossing areas in Austria and Hungary. The ZIB newscasts can be accessed online on the mediathek.
The T-online.de hompage always has headlines. The comments are usually populist but this is what some 'average' citizens are thinking.
You can find the Swiss perspective online at 'NZZ.ch'
Free press is taken seriously here so negative comments are not a problem unless they are insulting and really out of line.
'ORF 2' has live news coverage from all the border crossing areas in Austria and Hungary. The ZIB newscasts can be accessed online on the mediathek.
The T-online.de hompage always has headlines. The comments are usually populist but this is what some 'average' citizens are thinking.
You can find the Swiss perspective online at 'NZZ.ch'
Free press is taken seriously here so negative comments are not a problem unless they are insulting and really out of line.
2
I don't blame the refugees for not wanting to settle in Hungary. Hungary has a long reputation of poor treatment of the Roma, and of and their prime minister keeps saying Hungary must remain a nation "for Christians." In recent days film of soldiers and police throwing food at refugees, and a camera woman kicking a refugee --have been widely broadcast. Anyone hoping to raise a family in a tolerant environment would understandably move to a more tolerant nation, not one with a hard-right government fanning the flames of xenophobia.
3
Like where? Like any of the Islamic countries in the region they studiously avoided and headed for Europe?
24
@paula: Hungary doesn't have a "hard-right government" and this has nothing to do with xenophobia. Yours seems to be a typical left wing answer.
Roma are gypsies which every country avoids; if you are so kind hearted, why not propose that Russia, or Brazil or Iran offer to take them in??? Why are you putting all the burden on EU?
Roma are gypsies which every country avoids; if you are so kind hearted, why not propose that Russia, or Brazil or Iran offer to take them in??? Why are you putting all the burden on EU?
15
Fine, then do not cross Hungary illegally and leave your trash behind while defying the authorities. Hungary has built a fence to make clear to illegal migrants that they are not welcome and must register in Serbia as the law requires. If these were really refugees they would have no problem registering in the first safe country. Rather then destroying documents, burning off their finger prints and defying authority. I read that Germany has discovered that 25% of those claiming to be Syrian are not Syrian including some from Sub Saharan Africa who have Syrian passports when Germany says they are clearly not from Syria. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't leave trash everywhere you go. Then perhaps Hungary and other EU countries will not close their border to you.
16
I would encourage the readers of the NYT to visit the website of the UNHCR and download and read the international legal agreements to which most countries in the world including all in the EU are subscribed. Once you have read about the rights of refugees and the legal administrative provisions governing their management you will fully understand the extent to which Hungary's behaviour is completely and utterly illegal in almost every conceivable manner.
8
Before we really spin up the self-righteousness, though, how many young, unskilled, aggressive male Muslim migrants does Canada plan to welcome onto its shores?
23
I'll trust my gut on this one, thanks. Hungary is doing the right thing.
18
You mean in light of the irresponsible leader of Germany "inviting" the "refugees" by proclaiming that the country was open, thus inviting a mass exodus and stampede from the Middle East and African countries? Perhaps that lie is what should be deemed illegal, and not Hungary's attempt at controlling it's borders.
21
The thought of what happens to a second wife in a country which does not allow polygamy makes me almost as sick as the thought of a civilized western country changing its laws to accommodate second wives for immigrants. I can also see the children of the second wife being bitter and alienated. This is so going to end in tears.
39
Ha! Too late. In Britain they have already rolled over:
Muslim immigrants with more than one wife will see an increase in their social welfare benefits beginning in 2013, when reforms to the British welfare system come into effect.
Although polygamy is illegal in Britain, the state effectively recognizes the practice for Muslim men, who often have up to four wives (and in some instances five or more) in a harem.
Muslim immigrants with more than one wife will see an increase in their social welfare benefits beginning in 2013, when reforms to the British welfare system come into effect.
Although polygamy is illegal in Britain, the state effectively recognizes the practice for Muslim men, who often have up to four wives (and in some instances five or more) in a harem.
20
Outrageous. When will the citizens stand up and demand an end to this insanity?
5
Patty: They'll claim their many wives as "dependents", like children. In the "relationship" box on the government form, they will no longer have to specify. Everyone will just be categorized as "dependent".
1
Merkel's policies are putting tremendous strain on countries like Greece, which is a favorite entry point for the migrants. For every migrant coming to Germany through Greece, the latter's debt to Germany should be reduced according to the resulting expense and chaos. No free rides for Angela, Ja!
35
Why does the Times headline place the word "crisis" in quotation marks? If this isn't a crisis why is it in the headlines each day? Could it be because Hungary is calling a spade a spade and, though it is not politically correct, the government has decided to manage or seal its borders. Anyone who lives in San Diiego has seen the ugly metal and barbed wire fence the US erected along our border with Mexico. And we all know that migrants have been dying day after day because of it. It's not OK when Hungary takes similar measures? Buts it's OK for the US - anyhow about Israel? Sick and tired of phony baloney discussions of this topic.
30
America should open its doors wide open to welcome German and Swedish citizens who in the near future will be displaced by the current refugees in their own homelands.
93
Most likely solution to problem, though Poland, Hungary, and Russia may be options.
5
I predict Hungary will be one destination when Germans are fed up enough. Then who will pay the benefits for the migrants?
3
They may end up in Hungary first.
Wow, how the Americans come across as morally higher.
Check your own history. Not exactly welcoming to the Irish or Jews over the decades.
And to add, all those Western movies where the people face each other in a shoot out. Truth be known most were shot in the back.
Check your own history. Not exactly welcoming to the Irish or Jews over the decades.
And to add, all those Western movies where the people face each other in a shoot out. Truth be known most were shot in the back.
3
Wow, how the Canadians come across as morally higher, while they do not take in any refugees themselves.
29
Canadians have such an inferiority complex when it comes to the US. BTW, Canada had its wild west too...its Indian Wars too...but hey, what else do you Canadians have other than snipping at the USA? And do you not see the problems of comparing actions from 200-150 years ago to the actions of today?
18
that's one canadian who responded. figures say canada accepted 13,500 applications last year or about the equivalent of about 120,000 in the usa when given the population difference. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/canada.asp
1
God help them. They are human beings for goodness sake. Any one of us could be that child in the picture. Have the posters of the mean-spirited posters actually looked at what is left of Syria? They can't be sent back and beheaded or raped by ISIS.
6
Yes, the photos are very touching. But you will not see photos of the poor and working-classes in the areas that will be forced to receive them, and you are also blind to what these demographics mean for Europe within 100 years. I doubt you would care to see Texas 60 percent Muslim in two-three generations. People in Denmark, Hungary, France, and Britain feel exactly the same way. Only their opinions aren't being reported here.
67
So have the US take them. Again, what country is so used to playing both ends against the middle when it comes to foreign policy? Which country continues to support "democratic" revolutions in countries that have no tradition or history of democratic governments? What country started the whole mess in the first place?
American exceptionalism and hypocrisy are simply amazing.
American exceptionalism and hypocrisy are simply amazing.
1
Yes. But the long term solution ultimately lies with corrective action in the middle east. You don't honestly believe emptying out the entire country of Syria onto the world is the answer?
1
Assimilation in Germany and France means the migrants have the right to impose their medieval culture and law on their well-intentioned and hapless hosts. Europeans who do not like it can leave. This is why Hungary, Poland, et.al. are defending their borders. Europe will learn history or repeat it.
80
or they're just trying to escape dying and hoping for a better life with their children. let's hope they learn their history as the usa did, for example, in Vietnam and Iraq......
2
But people who are escaping death generally don't make offensive demands of host countries and project an "Only Germany is worthy of me" attitude, do they?
20
Kalia,
You're confusing assimilation with integration. To assimilate is to adopt the language, culture, and values of the host country. To integrate, on the other hand, is to do the opposite: to retain one's language, culture and values in the host country. The immigrant's way of life is integrated into the host country. This leads to multiculturalism, instead of a multi-ethnic culture.
A country should be in no way obligated to integrate immigrant language, culture, and values. Rather, the immigrant should be obligated to assimilate.
You're confusing assimilation with integration. To assimilate is to adopt the language, culture, and values of the host country. To integrate, on the other hand, is to do the opposite: to retain one's language, culture and values in the host country. The immigrant's way of life is integrated into the host country. This leads to multiculturalism, instead of a multi-ethnic culture.
A country should be in no way obligated to integrate immigrant language, culture, and values. Rather, the immigrant should be obligated to assimilate.
5
Hungary and Denmark it seems are the only sane countries in Europe nowadays. How can Merkel or anyone believe that this mostly uneducated third world horde will in any way help the German or European economy and won't cause gigantic social problems? Oslo, Malmo and Copenhagen all experiences how much these Muslim immigrants are willing to assimilate.
In the UK immigrants from Eastern Europe pay more in taxes then get from the government while immigrants from Africa and Asia take more benefits. That's fact and Merkel refused to look at the hard data and chose the PC way to deal with this crisis.
She invited this horde to Western Europe not thinking what the transit countries like Hungary or Serbia will have to deal with as a result.
The Hungarian police has done an excellent job considering the number of invaders who can't do anything but make demands, leave tons of trash behind and pretend to be refugees -- when in fact they were already safe in Turkey.
In the UK immigrants from Eastern Europe pay more in taxes then get from the government while immigrants from Africa and Asia take more benefits. That's fact and Merkel refused to look at the hard data and chose the PC way to deal with this crisis.
She invited this horde to Western Europe not thinking what the transit countries like Hungary or Serbia will have to deal with as a result.
The Hungarian police has done an excellent job considering the number of invaders who can't do anything but make demands, leave tons of trash behind and pretend to be refugees -- when in fact they were already safe in Turkey.
77
I see videos and there are people from many backgrounds, I see a lot of Indian and Black complexiones which I do not recall been Syrians. Unfortunately these situation has become a total mess and the few Syrians that may had a chance they are out of luck. The thinks that bother me the most is the attitude and arrogance of these people. I want to go to Belgium, Germany like if they had rights and they are now upset with the Hungarians because they took a stand. The Syrians should learn from this because if they had taken a stand like the Hungarians the ISIS and Assad would be history. But day by day they show they do not want to work they want the free ride of welfare. They demand and are cocky, any country has the right to demand papers as the Hungarians are doing. I do not understand why everybody is so upset. US people will be doing the same if all Latin America decided to come here because some dumb politician say the door is open. I do not see that Merkel or all the UN big mouths taking any family in their houses.
49
I support Hungary. After fighting the Ottoman Turks' invasions for decades, the Hungarians were defeated at the Battle of Mohacs in 1526. Their king and most of their nobility were slain, their nation conquered, their people enslaved, their children snatched, converted to Islam, and forced to fight fot the sultan. It took almost 200 hundred years to throw the Ottomans out of Hungary and it was only possible because the aid of the Hapsburgs of Austria.
They see this massive exodus of mostly Muslim migrants as another invasion of an expansionistic religious dogma. All European countries should close their borders because this migration is nothing but a Trojan Horse.
Merkel, in my opinion, had no right to put Germany and the whole of Europe in this bind.
They see this massive exodus of mostly Muslim migrants as another invasion of an expansionistic religious dogma. All European countries should close their borders because this migration is nothing but a Trojan Horse.
Merkel, in my opinion, had no right to put Germany and the whole of Europe in this bind.
89
agree, well said
15
Always useful to recall historical contexts. And before Hungary's struggles with the Ottoman Turks, several centuries earlier, the region had to contend with rapidly Islamizing Mongols & Tatars ...
11
The EU leadership will throw away in an instant everything their ancestors fought and died in vicious battle with the ancestors of the horde. Americans "activists" whatever that means, follow the typical US ignorance of world history.
From Tours (Poitiers) when the Franks put a stop to the thuggish attempts to conquer, 732, to the great Holy League naval victory at Lepanto, 1571, as outnumbered Christian forces, enraged by the Muslim slaughter of combatants under a false promise of passage at Famagusta (Cypress) and the flaying alive of their captain, destroyed the Ottoman fleet stopping centuries if Muslim pillage and piracy throughout littoral Europe.
Now the Enlightenment values of Europe will be subsumed under an intolerant religious fanatics. Make room here for those displaced by the pusillanimous Merkel.
From Tours (Poitiers) when the Franks put a stop to the thuggish attempts to conquer, 732, to the great Holy League naval victory at Lepanto, 1571, as outnumbered Christian forces, enraged by the Muslim slaughter of combatants under a false promise of passage at Famagusta (Cypress) and the flaying alive of their captain, destroyed the Ottoman fleet stopping centuries if Muslim pillage and piracy throughout littoral Europe.
Now the Enlightenment values of Europe will be subsumed under an intolerant religious fanatics. Make room here for those displaced by the pusillanimous Merkel.
4
"Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with two wives and two sons, shortly after the border was sealed."
That right there is the problem. Mr. Yussef, will in a few years have 4 wives and ten children and be wanting to bring 60 of his closest relatives to live off the generous welfare benefits of Europe. All of these people need to be housed in the first country they enter that is safe. They need to be prepared to return home and rebuild their country once the war ends and they won't do that if they get to Europe. Europe and the west have no obligation to refugees as long as none of the wealthy Islamic states in the region do nothing to help refugees who share their religion and customs, do nothing. Angela Merkel will go down in history, as the woman who committed her country to cultural suicide. The Russians are moving into Syria, but they are not taking refugees. Neither are the Saudis, the Chinese, or the Iranians. The Hungarians are doing the appropriate thing by closing their borders and refusing to take non-Christians. Europeans have a culture too and with multiple wives, lack of women's rights and a medieval tribal culture, these people will not be assimilated in the west. My children and grandchildren have a right to grow up in a society that was built over centuries by their ancestors who understand the value of the preservation of resources and family planning.
That right there is the problem. Mr. Yussef, will in a few years have 4 wives and ten children and be wanting to bring 60 of his closest relatives to live off the generous welfare benefits of Europe. All of these people need to be housed in the first country they enter that is safe. They need to be prepared to return home and rebuild their country once the war ends and they won't do that if they get to Europe. Europe and the west have no obligation to refugees as long as none of the wealthy Islamic states in the region do nothing to help refugees who share their religion and customs, do nothing. Angela Merkel will go down in history, as the woman who committed her country to cultural suicide. The Russians are moving into Syria, but they are not taking refugees. Neither are the Saudis, the Chinese, or the Iranians. The Hungarians are doing the appropriate thing by closing their borders and refusing to take non-Christians. Europeans have a culture too and with multiple wives, lack of women's rights and a medieval tribal culture, these people will not be assimilated in the west. My children and grandchildren have a right to grow up in a society that was built over centuries by their ancestors who understand the value of the preservation of resources and family planning.
98
Hungary fought off the invading Ottoman Muslim armies in the 16th to 17th centuries; they know a lot more about what is happening than do the Germans. This flood or migrants carrying children is a calculated strategy to accomplish through deceit what they tried for centuries to do militarily. Germans have guilt complex from WW2 which will be the undoing of Germany much of Western Europe.
60
According to hvg.hu (a left-leaning weekly independent paper in Hungary).
Procedure of the Hungarian transit zone:
-The zone is open between 6am and 10pm.
-After checking passports, the refugees have to complete the paperwork to declare if they filled out any asylum application in Serbia, and if they not, are they willing to fill out one in Hungary. If the answer is no, they will have to return to Serbia. If the answer is yes, then they can go to the waiting area where they will get food, water, medical assistance, and will get fingerprinted and photographed.
-All application will be handled as summary proceedings and the authorities are trying to process everyone in a couple of hours.
-Every child who arrive alone will get placed in a home for orphans. Pregnant women, elderly, sick people and families with small children will be transferred to the welcome station if they will have to wait for more than 24 hour for decision on their asylum application.
The transit zone is open to volunteers and members of the UN Refugee Agency.
The transit zone plan to process about 100 refugees/day.
According to the agreement between Serbia and Hungary, the Hungary can send 80 refugees back to Serbia daily.
Procedure of the Hungarian transit zone:
-The zone is open between 6am and 10pm.
-After checking passports, the refugees have to complete the paperwork to declare if they filled out any asylum application in Serbia, and if they not, are they willing to fill out one in Hungary. If the answer is no, they will have to return to Serbia. If the answer is yes, then they can go to the waiting area where they will get food, water, medical assistance, and will get fingerprinted and photographed.
-All application will be handled as summary proceedings and the authorities are trying to process everyone in a couple of hours.
-Every child who arrive alone will get placed in a home for orphans. Pregnant women, elderly, sick people and families with small children will be transferred to the welcome station if they will have to wait for more than 24 hour for decision on their asylum application.
The transit zone is open to volunteers and members of the UN Refugee Agency.
The transit zone plan to process about 100 refugees/day.
According to the agreement between Serbia and Hungary, the Hungary can send 80 refugees back to Serbia daily.
21
brilliant
1
Merkel's timeline of events: Last year she said multiculturalism did not work; half year ago she was in the news causing refugee child to cry when she told her there was no more room; one month ago- let 800,000 people in; 1 week ago - cannot cope with 14,000, few days ago - we must close borders. How indecisive can a person get?
50
I too have to wonder about her mental state. She has repeatedly failed to be helpful when other EU countries are facing major issues (Italy with Migrant search and rescue - Greece with the debt crisis - The entire Balkan region after the horrific floods of 2014 - with land mines floating about)....and now open the borders to one and all? First she said penalize countries that don't take in these people - then she back tracked and said "Don't Penalize them" and then I think today she said - "Penalize them". Also, "Let them come" "close the borders" "we can handle them" "we have too many" I mean if these are not the indicators of indecision and a possible breakdown of some kind......I don't know what is.
11
There will be only one solution to this crisis. Unfortunately for Serbia, Hungary and other European nations, they not only don't control that solution but really can't even contribute materially to it anymore.
The only solution is one that will stop the exodus of refugees from the Middle East. That will require that external force be used to destroy Bashar al Assad's ability to wage war on his own people, the destruction of ISIS and an externally imposed tribal confederation in Syria. Perhaps what we should have attempted two years ago.
Europe might add men to a U.S.-led solution, but that's about the extent of their ability to participate. Too tough? We don't want to involve ourselves in that tribal mess in Syria, risk freeing ISIS to even greater predations in the absence of an Assad counter, or confront ISIS effectively? Well, then. expect the few who drowned today to be a tiny fraction of those who drown, and starve, and die of exposure tomorrow, and let's all just resolve to stop complaining about it. Europe clearly isn't going to open its borders to displaced millions.
The only solution is one that will stop the exodus of refugees from the Middle East. That will require that external force be used to destroy Bashar al Assad's ability to wage war on his own people, the destruction of ISIS and an externally imposed tribal confederation in Syria. Perhaps what we should have attempted two years ago.
Europe might add men to a U.S.-led solution, but that's about the extent of their ability to participate. Too tough? We don't want to involve ourselves in that tribal mess in Syria, risk freeing ISIS to even greater predations in the absence of an Assad counter, or confront ISIS effectively? Well, then. expect the few who drowned today to be a tiny fraction of those who drown, and starve, and die of exposure tomorrow, and let's all just resolve to stop complaining about it. Europe clearly isn't going to open its borders to displaced millions.
6
Um, Putin has the numbers and logistics to keep this sorry tale going.
3
G.P.:
Putin gives the appearance of momentum and capacity because he hasn't been even once confronted by the U.S. in almost seven years of the Obama presidency. Not once. He runs a country facing economic chaos due to its dependence on a petro-sector that is tanking badly due in part to the abundance of global fracking, in part due to the cyclical nature of the oil biz.
The world might be surprised at how this dramatically diminished leader might back off a bad bluff if only we see his bet once, then raise him a few bucks -- instead of folding whenever someone says "Putin" and "Boo!" in the same sentence.
Putin gives the appearance of momentum and capacity because he hasn't been even once confronted by the U.S. in almost seven years of the Obama presidency. Not once. He runs a country facing economic chaos due to its dependence on a petro-sector that is tanking badly due in part to the abundance of global fracking, in part due to the cyclical nature of the oil biz.
The world might be surprised at how this dramatically diminished leader might back off a bad bluff if only we see his bet once, then raise him a few bucks -- instead of folding whenever someone says "Putin" and "Boo!" in the same sentence.
1
This is a modern day Versailles. The reason Hungary and the West must bow to the pressure of these migrants is there are so many of them. It would be easy to stop a family, for example, and say: “No, you may not enter our country. Go home, or, follow a lengthy citizenship process.” It’s a very different story when tens of thousands families are knocking at the boarder door. Unfortunately, places like Syria have become inhuman gutters with no government insuring its people a safe way of living. We, as world citizens, must ensure that all human life is valued, and remember we neglect “the masses” at our own peril. Eventually, people will – well -- revolt.
2
You mean the EU workers will revolt from this mess being forced on,them?
By the way, have all these experts thought about the rights of LGBT and women when this mass overwhelms the culture and re- writes the rules or simply by force imposes its medieval values ad hoc?
By the way, have all these experts thought about the rights of LGBT and women when this mass overwhelms the culture and re- writes the rules or simply by force imposes its medieval values ad hoc?
1
To expound on what I said in response to Carol Lee. Europeans should -want- refugees AND migrants to get to work as soon as possible when they arrive. It's not just for the migrants good - a job and a paycheck can help them find normalcy after the trauma of war. As I mentioned, it's less costly to their hosts than paying for their housing and food ad infinitum.
.
Most of all, it's better for security. Teenagers join terror cells often for the same reason they join gangs. They're disenfranchised, they don't feel safe, they're looking for somewhere to fit in. Along comes a dope dealer or a radical Imam, and they easily fall prey. Help them and their parents find jobs. Push them to assimilate, instead of marginalizing them, and you can save lives.
.
Most of all, it's better for security. Teenagers join terror cells often for the same reason they join gangs. They're disenfranchised, they don't feel safe, they're looking for somewhere to fit in. Along comes a dope dealer or a radical Imam, and they easily fall prey. Help them and their parents find jobs. Push them to assimilate, instead of marginalizing them, and you can save lives.
5
Yes, but there is just one problem: those jobs will also be wanted by the unemployed, like the two million in Britain, mostly up north where, ironically, at least 1,000 migrants will be sent first. How do you think ensuring that the last people in who have paid nothing into the system have jobs, homes, and support will play with the people who live there and who cannot find housing, have to wait two weeks to see a doctor, and cannot find primary school places for their own chidlren? It is a recipe for rage and disaster.
30
Half the youth of Greece, Portugal and Spain are unemployed. Those from Ireland have left - again - to find jobs. There are no jobs for these people.
16
Had Merkel and her ilk given more financial aid to UNHCR when they ran out of money to feed the refugees, the camps surrounding Syria wouldn't have started emptying out when the food ran out. Had she been a bit more clear about what exactly she was offering and to whom as help, this mad stampede could have been avoided. Had Germany made a decision months ago to help the immigrants streaming in through Greece, and started discussing setting up checkpoints then and registering Syrians there or in Turkey, a lot of lives could have been saved. Instead they were too busy with yet another round of austerity measures against the Greeks, all the while the boats with immigrants were pouring in to Lesbos.
All of this could have been avoided or reduced with a bit of foresight and planning. EU has a failed immigration policy and prefers to react instead of being proactive. Now they are trying to put the blame on Hungary for trying to close the gates and bring back some semblance of order to the process of dealing with a massive refugee crisis.
Encouraging desperate people with the promise of help and hope for their future and then failing to deliver is not Hungary's fault. It is a tragedy of massive proportions, one that will haunt the continent for decades to come. Because the only thing it breeds is discontent and disillusion and resentment. Is Europe ready for that or will they still be busy discussing the best way to deal, pointing fingers and recriminating?
All of this could have been avoided or reduced with a bit of foresight and planning. EU has a failed immigration policy and prefers to react instead of being proactive. Now they are trying to put the blame on Hungary for trying to close the gates and bring back some semblance of order to the process of dealing with a massive refugee crisis.
Encouraging desperate people with the promise of help and hope for their future and then failing to deliver is not Hungary's fault. It is a tragedy of massive proportions, one that will haunt the continent for decades to come. Because the only thing it breeds is discontent and disillusion and resentment. Is Europe ready for that or will they still be busy discussing the best way to deal, pointing fingers and recriminating?
25
These people are "demanding" rights in Germany et al. They're already got the game plan. Get some iron, close the door tight and send them home to finish their chosen fight against Assad or refugee camps. The Palestinians have been in refugee camps since 1948, having been forced out by Israel, which by the way has accepted none of its neighbors despite continuing to occupy part of Syria since 1967.
1
There should be no reason that a fraction of the REFUGEES (hopefully not ISIS) cannot be taken in by EURO counties on a GNP-based quota system, BUT the majority of the REFUGEES should be taken in by the much closer muslim counties ruled by the 0.001 percenters, e.g., Bahrain, Dubai, Iran, Kuwait, Oman, Saudi Arabia, UAR, Quatar !!!!!!!!
11
Hungary is a country of war criminals. How disgusting to lie and deceive when people come to you begging for help after their lives have been ruined. These people were bombed, they are not "invaders" as the liars in Hungary say. Hungary has disgraces itself and should suffer all available penalty from the EU.
What war have they prosecuted, that they are war criminals? Sorry but this comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Every nation has the right to deal with illegal immigrants as it sees fit, short of slaying them all. That's a potential future to this crisis though, stay tuned.
30
They fought with the Nazis on the Eastern Front. And, yes, they were a puppet Nazi Regime but they did not exactly resist them, either.
Members of the Arrow Brigade, Hungarian fascists, were prosecuted at the Nuremberg trials and many were executed. Hungary was an ally of the Third Reich.
love how the regions richest countries of saudi etc are offering to build mosques in europe but NOT to take any refugees due to terrorism worries.. glad to see germany closing borders now too, this isnt a refugee crisis its an invasion
77
I see this as nothing more than blowback. The West managed to destroy two of the world's birthplaces of civilization: Iraq and Syria. Those who were encouraged by the US and joined the anti-Saddam, then anti-Assad, then anti-Qaddafi campaigns should shoulder the responsibility. That includes the US, so you armchair quarterbacks take note and get ready to welcome about 100,000 Syrian and Iraqi refugees. Greece, dead broke and Christian, is doing more to welcome these maligned masses than anyone other than Muslim Turkey. And as far as Hungary is concerned, they better remember they are part of Europe.
4
So then Baboulas, you claim to be completely unaware of the millennium-old Shiite-Sunni holy war, the tribal divisions, the unceasing strife in the Middle East, the vicious dictatorships causing implacable hatred of the oppressors, and in short all of Middle East history? The only thing to matter in the entire region, ever, was the comparatively short intervention of the U.S.?
I suggest you study up on history some. Might even catch the irony of Greece and Turkey helping out the same refugees, when they hate eachother more than anyone else in the area.
I suggest you study up on history some. Might even catch the irony of Greece and Turkey helping out the same refugees, when they hate eachother more than anyone else in the area.
20
We did wrong and now we're going to be punished - that is our children are going to be punished. Do you really want to your wife and family living next door to guys from the al Nusra Front? Take a look at
https://kuruc.info/r/6/148278/
Hungary has plenty of experience keeping out Moslems and has done a good job of it over the years, certain major setbacks notwithstanding. They won't break.
https://kuruc.info/r/6/148278/
Hungary has plenty of experience keeping out Moslems and has done a good job of it over the years, certain major setbacks notwithstanding. They won't break.
17
I watched a YT video in which a German television crew interviewed a family of 10 in a refugee camp in Iraq. The father said his son is already in Germany and was given money and an apartment. The father is already preparing to send his 14 year old son to Germany. Reasoning that Germany does not send underage youth back and that the young man can eventually send for the family and that Germany will build them a house. Apparently for some Germany is the promise land where you can live the good life paid for by someone else's hard work. This family is not going to Germany for freedom and democracy but to get anything free they can grab. These are economic migrants who deserve no place in Europe. Consider also that this is a family of 10 who all expect to eventually end up in Germany. Merkel is now talking about admitting 1 mil migrants. What if each of them brings in 3 family member. That is an increase in Germany's population of 4 mil in just a year of people who do not speak the language and oppose Western values such as free speech, equal rights, women's rights and democracy. The usual pattern for Muslims is once they have a large minority they begin agitating for special rights and sharia. First peacefully then through violence. Five years from now people will thank Hungary for stopping the Muslim advance in Europe. You might even seen former German citizens moving to Hungary.
83
yes, German ciitzens are going to move to Orban's paradise. Yes they will. And we will thank Viktor.
Who are these people who write such nonsense????
Who are these people who write such nonsense????
It says it (almost) all:
"Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with TWO wives and two sons, shortly after the border was sealed."
At age of 27 he does "quite well"?
Per Geneva Convention on Refugees which has been in place at least 50 years and most of the people complied with it, a wannabe refugee must stop at the first country he (and in 80% of cases in this illegal tsunami of migrants they are men, even when media prefer to show "women and children" in heart-braking "human story" photos) is safe from supposed danger in his home country and ap-ply for refugee status there.
All these illegals, statistically likely not to assimilate well and even (per today statement of a Jordanian minister to visiting UK PM Cameron "two out of 100 Syrian migrants are fighters for IS) terorrism and security threat, have been braking numerous laws, repeatedly also by crossing one border after another not in search of safety (for themselves and/or their kids) but in search for thye most generous welfare benefits in Germany and Sweden.
This year only 9 (!!) apply inh btyhe Czech Republic and similar low numbers in Hungary, Poland, etc., poorer EU countries where welfare is 6-10 times smaller.
Subsequently, enough ofv them will later on hate new country, claim "discrimination", demand sharia law (see this fellow with 2 wives), support or join jihad against West.
One "radicalized islamist" requires 20 security personnel.
"Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with TWO wives and two sons, shortly after the border was sealed."
At age of 27 he does "quite well"?
Per Geneva Convention on Refugees which has been in place at least 50 years and most of the people complied with it, a wannabe refugee must stop at the first country he (and in 80% of cases in this illegal tsunami of migrants they are men, even when media prefer to show "women and children" in heart-braking "human story" photos) is safe from supposed danger in his home country and ap-ply for refugee status there.
All these illegals, statistically likely not to assimilate well and even (per today statement of a Jordanian minister to visiting UK PM Cameron "two out of 100 Syrian migrants are fighters for IS) terorrism and security threat, have been braking numerous laws, repeatedly also by crossing one border after another not in search of safety (for themselves and/or their kids) but in search for thye most generous welfare benefits in Germany and Sweden.
This year only 9 (!!) apply inh btyhe Czech Republic and similar low numbers in Hungary, Poland, etc., poorer EU countries where welfare is 6-10 times smaller.
Subsequently, enough ofv them will later on hate new country, claim "discrimination", demand sharia law (see this fellow with 2 wives), support or join jihad against West.
One "radicalized islamist" requires 20 security personnel.
50
I think it's time to throw Russia out of the UN security council and send European navies to the Mediterranean to stop this flow of economic migrants.
10
Good luck with that.
4
During much of the 1500's, Hungary fought off and repelled invading Muslim armies, armies which also besieged and nearly took Vienna in 1529. These were armies of conquest with no just cause to enter Hungary. Now, they invade again, but instead of bearing swords, they carry babies. Commenters note that most of the entrants are strong, healthy, well nourished young men of fighting age. They are hardly starving or poor, having paid $10K or more to smugglers. Why can't they just settle in Turkey,
a country with compatible culture and religion? Then there are the Central Asian Republics. Compatible religion and not very crowded. Hungary knows more about this issue than Germany does.
a country with compatible culture and religion? Then there are the Central Asian Republics. Compatible religion and not very crowded. Hungary knows more about this issue than Germany does.
58
My dear Kalia. Great idea, but unfortunately wrong. Most of Hungary, with the exception of some fortresses was occupied by the Ottoman Empire after the battle of Mohacs, and the loss of Buda.
As to the just cause for doing so, that doctrine was no more obeyed by Christian powers than the Ottomans.
The description of the refugees too is beyond belief. Even the orban government, as lamentable their actions are, has not claimed any sucha thing.
As to the just cause for doing so, that doctrine was no more obeyed by Christian powers than the Ottomans.
The description of the refugees too is beyond belief. Even the orban government, as lamentable their actions are, has not claimed any sucha thing.
1
Correct, Hungary was occupied by the Ottoman Empire. Maybe they don't want to repeat that scenario. Correct, historically, Christian nations have followed the might makes right principle. However, since 1947, no Western European nation has attempted large scale colonization by military force. The description of the refugees as young strong men was cited as the opinion of numerous commenters to this and other articles.
3
Compared with the situation decades ago, we have a new powerful source of information. The internet. Many of the migrants may have only the clothes on their backs, some food and water. But they have a smartphone! This shows them scenes of "The West", and they want to go there.
20
That smartphone also allows them to organize this rush on civilization's borders.
15
"Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with two wives and two sons, shortly after the border was sealed."
Perhaps if Mr. Yussef had spent more time fighting for a country, and less time acquiring wives, he might still have one.
Perhaps if Mr. Yussef had spent more time fighting for a country, and less time acquiring wives, he might still have one.
74
This is what is scaring many in the west , particularly women. How is he going to live with two women in countries that polygamy is forbidden. He is 27 with two wives and two sons by 40 in a country that gives him welfare probably he expects 20 kids and 10 wives. It is wrong they are a malady.
16
Seriously? Fighting for a country that... what? Forcibly 'disappears' people, recent beheadings by ISIS, mass arrests by regime forces? Ok, two wives, maybe that doesn't sit well with your ethos. But can we deny a civilized existence to people based on our dislike of their culture?
I don't like the idea of two wives. But I'm not going to support the denying of anyone the right to live as a human being with all the rights pertaining to that because of it. Oh (to paraphrase), the inhumanity.
I don't like the idea of two wives. But I'm not going to support the denying of anyone the right to live as a human being with all the rights pertaining to that because of it. Oh (to paraphrase), the inhumanity.
We didn't like Hitler either, but we fought him. we didn't just say "well, whatever, let him have Central and Eastern Europe, and all the able bodied people from those countries can just come claim asylum in England or France" So why is it a good idea for the able bodied people from the middle East to simply leave, and let ISIS etc. win?
4
Let them fight it out in their own county. Why should another country be condemned to accept and defend them? If a country has a policy of no illegal immigrants, they should be able to enforce their own policy in their own sovereign nation.
Our world/society is crumbling because for FAR too long the weak and the whiners have been the squeaky wheel, and been held up by the strong and capable. This is NOT nature, and it won't last.
There is going to come a time where the strong and capable are unwilling to drag the rest of the freeloaders along, and that time is fast approaching.
Our world/society is crumbling because for FAR too long the weak and the whiners have been the squeaky wheel, and been held up by the strong and capable. This is NOT nature, and it won't last.
There is going to come a time where the strong and capable are unwilling to drag the rest of the freeloaders along, and that time is fast approaching.
17
Pray that that time has not arrived when you might be weak.
Even the Marines, which are not "weak" or "whiners" will not abandon one of theirs in distress.
Even the Marines, which are not "weak" or "whiners" will not abandon one of theirs in distress.
And they have every right to protect their country. America should watch and learn from Hungary. Our southern border is a mess.
37
Everyone wants to learn from Hungary. amazing.
1
"Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with two wives and two sons"
This pretty much sums things up regarding his intention to assimilate into the EU. And he can't quite make up his mind in which country he would like to claim asylum... I guess he will demand double the welfare support, too?
This pretty much sums things up regarding his intention to assimilate into the EU. And he can't quite make up his mind in which country he would like to claim asylum... I guess he will demand double the welfare support, too?
75
This is progress, that the migrants are not called refugees anymore by the media. Most of these young men, who would like to enter Europe, are indeed migrants and not refugees.
It is estimated, that in fact only about 30% of them are Syrians, and even those Syrians were safe in Turkey. So technically they are not refugees anymore either. They were when they fled Syria and entered Turkey, but as soon as that happened, their status changed too, and they are by definition not refugees anymore.
So actually hardly anybody trying to enter Europe at this time is a true refugee.
Hungary is doing the right and legal thing, by securing the border of the Schengen Zone/Area.
It is estimated, that in fact only about 30% of them are Syrians, and even those Syrians were safe in Turkey. So technically they are not refugees anymore either. They were when they fled Syria and entered Turkey, but as soon as that happened, their status changed too, and they are by definition not refugees anymore.
So actually hardly anybody trying to enter Europe at this time is a true refugee.
Hungary is doing the right and legal thing, by securing the border of the Schengen Zone/Area.
56
What did refugee in Uruguay expect, one might ask?
As those in that country now say they are so unhappy? Luxury housing? Endless government assistance? Guaranteed employment? Do these new refugees not also understand that the estimated figure of 75% single male refugees is also raising flags?
As those in that country now say they are so unhappy? Luxury housing? Endless government assistance? Guaranteed employment? Do these new refugees not also understand that the estimated figure of 75% single male refugees is also raising flags?
22
The Hungarian border is Europe's border. But, Europe isn't giving them an iota of assistance. They aren't helping Greece, either. How about Macedonia? What are they waiting for? Hungary is doing all it can to slow the flow, and try to register these economic migrants, whom Germany still says they want. They will take 800,000, but millions more want only the wealthiest countries, and Hungry is not one of them. Germany has created this horrible situation without considering the consequences for any nation, but itself. On top of that they are severely criticizing Hungary, who does not deserve it. If Europe doesn't start getting smart about this, it will certainly turn into a catastrophe for all, not just the migrants. What started out as a humanitarian effort is quickly becoming a true danger to Europe.
55
Hungary rejected EU offers of help.
Maybe Hungarians need to spend a few more decades under Russian rule, until they learn to have a little more compassion for others. Seems they have forgotten many of them were once refugees from Soviet oppression
6
I truly feel for those fleeing Syria, etc. We blew up the region. We massively destabilized it, wrecked the precarious balance of power, created big power vacuums and chaotic voids that were quickly filled by extremist groups taking advantage of the mess. We contributed to the further radicalization of the angry young who grew up during our wars. What a humanitarian disaster. Now Europe becomes the latest victim of Bush and Cheney's grotesque, short-sighted, arrogant blundering. Everyone is paying the price --- except the guilty.
15
No, you are flat out WRONG. We did not blow up the region, we (wrongly) attacked Iraq (though, by the way, they started it with their illegal invasion of Kuwait. They have also had a chance to create a democratic republic after the the overthrow of saddam, instead choosing genocide, ethnic cleansing and religious holy war).
"We blew up the region. We massively destabilized it, wrecked the precarious balance of power, created big power vacuums and chaotic voids that were quickly filled by extremist groups taking advantage of the mess. We contributed to the further radicalization of the angry young who grew up during our wars."
I love this statement ... do the poor babies have any responsibility for their own lives and choices?
"We blew up the region. We massively destabilized it, wrecked the precarious balance of power, created big power vacuums and chaotic voids that were quickly filled by extremist groups taking advantage of the mess. We contributed to the further radicalization of the angry young who grew up during our wars."
I love this statement ... do the poor babies have any responsibility for their own lives and choices?
10
And of course there are the truly guilty, those radicalized elements of Islam who continue to fight the holy wars producing all these refugees. Don't forget that without that element, none of this would be happening at all, and Iraq would have done quite well by the removal of Saddam Insane, and built a civilized society. Instead, because of the Shiite-Sunni eternal holy war, they fell apart, and this was not caused by the moronic Bush but by their own religious culture. I don't expect your hatred for America to allow you to realize these truths, but they are true.
10
We did not destabilize Syria, unless you are a Russian living in Los Angeles. There are migrants in these groups from Iran and other nations that the US has not occupied. Most are not Iraqis. I'm sorry bit its getting tired hearing the simplistic US-bad-guy chants from people. Bush and Cheney were wrong on Iraq but they did not create this crisis. A people rose up, yearning to be free from the dictatorship of Assad only to have the US sit on their hands instead of giving them help. If anything US force in Syria earlier would have stopped this.
6
The anecdote about the guy showing up with both his wives saying he wanted to go to the Netherlands or Germany suggests a culture clash is ahead for many of the migrants and refugees.
You hope that most are prepared to leave behind old customs, grievances, and beliefs as they start a new life. But there's not been a lot of evidence of that for many Middle Easterners in Europe.
In six months the NY Times will be running articles about disappointed Syrians who are angry because European nations won't recognize their medical, engineering, and pharmaceutical credentials and how they are instead being shifted into jobs they consider menial.
You know that Merkel and co. meant well with the brief open arms policy but the Germans will be supporting many of these folks for a couple of generations.
You hope that most are prepared to leave behind old customs, grievances, and beliefs as they start a new life. But there's not been a lot of evidence of that for many Middle Easterners in Europe.
In six months the NY Times will be running articles about disappointed Syrians who are angry because European nations won't recognize their medical, engineering, and pharmaceutical credentials and how they are instead being shifted into jobs they consider menial.
You know that Merkel and co. meant well with the brief open arms policy but the Germans will be supporting many of these folks for a couple of generations.
98
I've lived in Europe - in France - and a lot of the failure to assimilate is due to European racism, more than a refusal from immigrants to even try. Africans and Arabs who immigrate to Europe WANT to find jobs. They WANT to contribute. Or else they wouldn't make the trip to begin with.
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The first generations who arrive make a go of it as best they can. But European racism stands in their way as they try to move up and out. They are stuck in bleak housing blocks. The first generation puts this into perspective. The housing blocks are still better than the slums and wars they came from. But their kids don't take it so well. They join gangs. They commit crimes. They join radical mosques and some join terror cells.
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If the EU finds itself in a culture war with thousands of unhappy Syrian refugees, they will have themselves to blame for it.
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The first generations who arrive make a go of it as best they can. But European racism stands in their way as they try to move up and out. They are stuck in bleak housing blocks. The first generation puts this into perspective. The housing blocks are still better than the slums and wars they came from. But their kids don't take it so well. They join gangs. They commit crimes. They join radical mosques and some join terror cells.
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If the EU finds itself in a culture war with thousands of unhappy Syrian refugees, they will have themselves to blame for it.
Commenters continue to talk about the Siege of Vienna. More recent history is the Red Terror in Hungary, where the communists killed everybody they did not like, the White Terror, where the fascists killed everybody they did not like, and the Arrow Brigade, who put the Jews on the trains to Auschwitz and threw the rest into the Danube. Now Mr Orban says they do not want a democracy and talks about Christianity as a reason for not taking in refugees. Some of my family emigrated from Hungary. I think that the losers stayed behind and the ones that left were basically running for their lives. One commenter criticized the ones that left; well, they were similar to the Syrians beating feet so that their head will not be cut off. The EU has offered Hungary financial help, they said they don't want it.
7
Well said, Crystal Lee.
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Syrian refugees are in a horrible position. They can either stay home, and face daily bombings at the hand of their own government. They can flee to refugee camps in nearby Lebanon or Turkey, and basically have their lives out on hold, living to with only the barest necessities and no schools for their children. Or they can make the long, arduous journey to Europe, where they will be greeted by hate and bureaucratic paralysis. (I suppose they could also try to make it to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, or Qatar, but there they would also be greeted by hate and bureaucratic paralysis).
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I don't think anyone in the West can fully understand how awful this is.
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All of that said, I do think the Europeans should learn one thing from the U.S. when it comes to refugees: they want to get to work; they want to build new lives, and you should want to help them do it sooner than later. Many European countries offer indefinite welfare benefits to refugees. It sounds nice but it's costly. Benefits here in the U.S. are only for 6 or 8 months. It's really better for everyone.
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Syrian refugees are in a horrible position. They can either stay home, and face daily bombings at the hand of their own government. They can flee to refugee camps in nearby Lebanon or Turkey, and basically have their lives out on hold, living to with only the barest necessities and no schools for their children. Or they can make the long, arduous journey to Europe, where they will be greeted by hate and bureaucratic paralysis. (I suppose they could also try to make it to Saudi Arabia, the UAE, or Qatar, but there they would also be greeted by hate and bureaucratic paralysis).
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I don't think anyone in the West can fully understand how awful this is.
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All of that said, I do think the Europeans should learn one thing from the U.S. when it comes to refugees: they want to get to work; they want to build new lives, and you should want to help them do it sooner than later. Many European countries offer indefinite welfare benefits to refugees. It sounds nice but it's costly. Benefits here in the U.S. are only for 6 or 8 months. It's really better for everyone.
2
That is not Hungarian history. Hungary rebelled against the Soviets in 1956 and paid a heavy price when the West left it hanging. Repression was brutal with mass hangings and disappearances. Nearly every family lost someone in that way. Nonetheless, Hungary had what was known as Gulyas (Goulash) Communism, a very relaxed view of socialism and a way of adapting to Soviet rule without being Communist. Throughout the cold war, Hungary looked West and pursued special relations with western countries. As for fascism, Hungary was not Nazi. The Holocaust did not occur there until actual German occupation when Admiral Horthy was executed. Antisemitism is a problem in Hungary, but less so than in many other Eastern European countries and today's Hungary has an influential Jewish community of over 100,000, then second largest next to France.
Why would you side with these bogus refugees, largely aggressive fighting-age men (some with two wives!) looking forward to a life of fast cars, night clubs and extensive welfare benefits in Hamburg and Berlin? Do you think they'll be helpful for women's rights? And if anti-semitism is a concern, just you wait to these guys grow roots in Europe.
Why would you side with these bogus refugees, largely aggressive fighting-age men (some with two wives!) looking forward to a life of fast cars, night clubs and extensive welfare benefits in Hamburg and Berlin? Do you think they'll be helpful for women's rights? And if anti-semitism is a concern, just you wait to these guys grow roots in Europe.
6
That's lie. They offered help only after Merkel unilaterally decided that all those young Muslim men can come to Europe en masse. Way too late.
Most are not even Syrian and they stopped being refugees when they left Turkey which is a safe country and noone is bombing them there.
Hungary MUST defend the Schengen borders with the limited resources they have. They cannot just let everyone in. And the "refugees" do not want to register because they are salivating for the freebies in rich Germany and Sweden.
Most are not even Syrian and they stopped being refugees when they left Turkey which is a safe country and noone is bombing them there.
Hungary MUST defend the Schengen borders with the limited resources they have. They cannot just let everyone in. And the "refugees" do not want to register because they are salivating for the freebies in rich Germany and Sweden.
3
Hungary leads the way on how to deal with this invasion. The EU will end up being a failed experiment if Germany tries to shove resettlement of illegal aliens (they are no longer refugees having crossed into a "safe" country before reaching the EU.
Oh and by the way, NYT, stop trying to make it seem like all the illegal aliens are women and children by always publishing pictures of women and children. Most are young men, and not Syrians. Readers like me are NOT fooled and neither are the Hungarians.
Oh and by the way, NYT, stop trying to make it seem like all the illegal aliens are women and children by always publishing pictures of women and children. Most are young men, and not Syrians. Readers like me are NOT fooled and neither are the Hungarians.
129
Right, they are mostly men who clearly do not have the courage to stay and fight for the society they want, following the gravy train to rich W. Europe. Send them all home.
15
'they are no longer refugees...'
You have already fooled yourself so that it all fits your politics.
You have already fooled yourself so that it all fits your politics.
2
NONE of us is fooled.
2
This is nothing less than a planned invasion and should be treated as such. And really? A Serbian minister is saying that Hungry should open its boarder so that Serbia can transfer it's problem? This is a Serbian problem, either home grown or acquired from one or more of its 7 other neighbors.
34
Escaping war is not an invader. Only someone who cannot see the humanity in the face of a child or immigrant escaping war would then criminalize them. Children invaders? Sickening lies.
So the focus of a humanitarian crisis involving literally millions of people comes down to complaints about the Hungarian governments unsympathetic response to a relatively small number of the millions of refugees? What a waste of time when the real issue that these people are not risking their lives and health just to take advantage of the German welfare system. The real crisis is going on in Syria and other middle eastern countries where the US and Russia are determined to fight a proxy war with no possible positive outcome for the millions of inhabitants. Yes, Europe needs to figure out a better way and Hungary should treat people better but losing sight of the big picture isn't going to help anyone.
9
When Syrians moved out, Russians moved in to fill the void. The large number of migrants will change the face of Europe just by numbers. I hope the media can report on the changes in the old countries these migrants had left behind.
3
Germany has acted absolutely recklessly, and I do not blame the Hungarian Prime Minister for taking such drastic but nonetheless necessary measures to reasonably control the influx of so-called "refugees". Just reading about the hunger strikes and seeing videos of the Syrians throwing food and water at the Hungarian police is enough for me to revoke any sympathy that I had for them. As refugees, they should be thankful that they are out of war-torn Syria and have basic housing and food and shelter. Moving has never been easy. They must be patient.
Furthermore, there are indeed important questions to ask regarding religion and integration; e.g., the feasibility of true integration. If we look at what's happened in Sweden and the UK, evidence shows that religion has been a dividing factor in some areas (http://www.economist.com/.../charle.../2013/05/swedens-riots).
Another interesting point to examine is why the Gulf countries (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait) have refused to accept a single refugee, even though they are more religiously and culturally similar to the refugees. Some articles that I have read suggest that it's the very same reason why the Hungarian Prime Minister doesn't want to overtly accept all refugees --> maintenance of national identity (http://time.com/4025187/arab-states-syrian-refugees/).
In the end, I believe the EU should mount more pressure on the Gulf states to accept their fare share of refugees.
Furthermore, there are indeed important questions to ask regarding religion and integration; e.g., the feasibility of true integration. If we look at what's happened in Sweden and the UK, evidence shows that religion has been a dividing factor in some areas (http://www.economist.com/.../charle.../2013/05/swedens-riots).
Another interesting point to examine is why the Gulf countries (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait) have refused to accept a single refugee, even though they are more religiously and culturally similar to the refugees. Some articles that I have read suggest that it's the very same reason why the Hungarian Prime Minister doesn't want to overtly accept all refugees --> maintenance of national identity (http://time.com/4025187/arab-states-syrian-refugees/).
In the end, I believe the EU should mount more pressure on the Gulf states to accept their fare share of refugees.
40
"So called refugees?" You just showed your hatred in your choice of words -- blaming people escaping war is sick.
"Moving has never been easy." Also, "Let them eat cake."
to: Dr. Svetistephen I know we invaded Iraq and not Syria my dear Doctor...did you read my comment. We destabilized the region and created Isis. Why wouldn't the Iranians hate us. The coup we engaged in to overthrow their democratically elected government and install a puppet master is only a small part of our responsibility. Your comments about President Obama suggest all I need to know about you. Call me all the names you want....it's what folks like you do best of all.
7
Dear Mchacho,
We didn't create the Daesh though. Fundamentalist Islam combined with depletion of resources due to climate change created the Daesh. Nothing else could have created those savages, and they would have been caused regardless of our interventions or not in the Middle East. If you really hate America so much, and think we're the Prime Evil, then I suggest you go tour Sudan or somewhere similar and see what savagery really is, and how little we have to do with it.
We didn't create the Daesh though. Fundamentalist Islam combined with depletion of resources due to climate change created the Daesh. Nothing else could have created those savages, and they would have been caused regardless of our interventions or not in the Middle East. If you really hate America so much, and think we're the Prime Evil, then I suggest you go tour Sudan or somewhere similar and see what savagery really is, and how little we have to do with it.
5
"We destabilized the region and created isis" Another poster who mistakes opinion with fact. Can these people function as adults and take some responsibility for their choice and actions, or are we just some kind of puppetmasters? And, we did not create isis, radical muslims did. Assign responsibility where it belongs.
If you are going to blame anyone for destabilizing the middle east, how about the British and French carving it up after WWI? But they were carving up the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire, which occupied the region. Maybe the Byzantine Empire is responsible, the Crusaders, Mohammed ... no, it was the Roman Empire that did it! See how ridiculous and arbitrary this blame game becomes?
And, I agree the overthrow of Mossadegh in the early 1950's was wrong, but really, that's 60+ years ago, they are not past it yet? Actually, they are, the Iranian people actually like us ...
If you are going to blame anyone for destabilizing the middle east, how about the British and French carving it up after WWI? But they were carving up the Ottoman (Turkish) Empire, which occupied the region. Maybe the Byzantine Empire is responsible, the Crusaders, Mohammed ... no, it was the Roman Empire that did it! See how ridiculous and arbitrary this blame game becomes?
And, I agree the overthrow of Mossadegh in the early 1950's was wrong, but really, that's 60+ years ago, they are not past it yet? Actually, they are, the Iranian people actually like us ...
2
And the Middle East was so stable all these hundreds of years!
4
Europe reminds me of the once beautiful lady but with a shallow and selfish character. Now when she looks into the mirror she sees an old women without great looks and even weaker character. Her days are over and she has neither a past nor a future. Europe is finished because it has never managed to take care of itself.
5
No wonder no one wants to live there.
6
Europe is not finished. Germany has lots of industry and is economically strong, probably stronger than the US in this respect. The Eastern European countries are on the way up.
The refugees will have to integrate. There is lots of dicussion about this at the moment and people will tolerate nothing less than everyone accepting and living according to the constitiution.
I think there will be a vote of confidence in the German parliament and early elections soon. Mrs Merkel's naivete and lack of foresight have led to this crisis. We will get a strong leader instead of a fine weather politician. Then Germany will really start to take care of itself and the rest of Europe will also be able to do the same.
Before you talk about Europe's weak character and days being over, take a good look at the USA.
The refugees will have to integrate. There is lots of dicussion about this at the moment and people will tolerate nothing less than everyone accepting and living according to the constitiution.
I think there will be a vote of confidence in the German parliament and early elections soon. Mrs Merkel's naivete and lack of foresight have led to this crisis. We will get a strong leader instead of a fine weather politician. Then Germany will really start to take care of itself and the rest of Europe will also be able to do the same.
Before you talk about Europe's weak character and days being over, take a good look at the USA.
1
I recommended that comment because I assumed it was meant to be sarcastic? But I say...
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion... The lies of the Bible have been the cause of the one, and the lies of the Testament of the other.” -Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
"The most detestable wickedness, the most horrid cruelties, and the greatest miseries, that have afflicted the human race have had their origin in this thing called revelation, or revealed religion... The lies of the Bible have been the cause of the one, and the lies of the Testament of the other.” -Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
How many Syrian refugees has Israel taken? They're right next door with a strong vibrant economy and are adept at creating settlements.
16
Where, in the West Bank? Are you recommending the next Intifada?
4
Think what size is Israel and second all Arabs want to disappear Israel. Please get some information before posting nonsense comments.
4
Although these people are clearly political refugees fleeing a horrible civil war(s), they are also economic migrants to Europer where they see a better life. I don't see any of them looking to the Arab world despite the obvious language, religious and cultural similarities. Unless the Arab and Mosl world step up to take in these refugees I don't see any reason for Europe to do so
25
The wealthy Gulf States do not want them. The migrants all want Germany, Germany, Germany (or maybe Sweden). The parable of the town in California - the town felt something had to be done for the homeless and set about to provide lodging, food, and other help. Lo-and-behold the homeless from the rest of the state showed up and from afar eager to partake of the town's generosity. In the end the town realized it could not provide for all who came. What is needed with the EU migration crisis is to rescind the 1951 Refugee Convention and 1968 Protocol.
8
Exactly, Ssm, that town in California was Santa Monica in the early 1990's, and I think it is an interesting parallel to the misguided open arms approach in the EU that is now being abandoned. In Santa Monica, official policy of tolerance for the homeless, many agencies and charities providing unconditional free meals, camping allowed in public parks. This wonderful situation only vastly increased the number of homeless. You could not walk or jog in the beautiful park along the beachside bluffs after 4pm because the homeless would be bedding down for the night, and the drunk or high men were frightening and would even spit at you. You could not withdraw money from an ATM because a homeless man would be standing next to the ATM line demanding a handout. Charity and compassion are necessary, but you have to be SMART about what you do, or you only worsen the problem while degrading the community for everyone.
5
Clearly this new development will delay the migrants, 85% of whom are young men, from reaching Munich in time for Octoberfest.
14
BSB:
Reaching Munich in time to participate in the festival or protest at it?
Reaching Munich in time to participate in the festival or protest at it?
The West labors under the American-sponsored idea of sophomoric egalitarianism: I'm okay, you're okay. This migration, if it is allowed to continue, might finally disabuse us of that notion.
18
From the article: Salib Yussef, a 27-year-old from Aleppo, Syria, arrived in Horgos at 3 a.m. on Tuesday with two wives and two sons, shortly after the border was sealed... "I want to go to the Netherlands, maybe Germany. Now I’m stuck here.”
Please somebody tell me how this poor soul straight out of the middle ages is ever going to integrate into modern German society. Mr Yussef and his two wives will never learn German and live from welfare their entire life. As for their sons, maybe something will come of them, or maybe they'll be the next Boston bombers.
Please somebody tell me how this poor soul straight out of the middle ages is ever going to integrate into modern German society. Mr Yussef and his two wives will never learn German and live from welfare their entire life. As for their sons, maybe something will come of them, or maybe they'll be the next Boston bombers.
158
I understand your concerns about the influx of non-Aryans into Germany. These refugees don't look like you, worship like you, or speak your language. Consider, however, that these people have the drive and the ambition to make the ardous journey to Germany. They seek better lives for themselves and their children.
You can't keep them out. In fact, given the low birth rate in Germany, you need these refugees - young, some well educated, all with ambition. How well they assimilate is up to you. Will they learn German? That's somewhat dependent on you - will you encourage them or will you mock their accents? Will their children be "German?" Again, that's dependent on you - will you welcome their children or continue to deny them any rights because they were not born to German citizens?
The US underwent a similar change a hundred years ago when immigrants began arriving from Italy, Eastern Europe and other nations where blonde hair and blue eyes were not the norm. Those immigrants were denigrated for their poor hygiene, lack of education, and for the Jews, practice of a disliked religion. The White Anglo-Saxon Protestant populace bemoaned the damage to society and predicted that those people would never be able to function in the US.
The leadership of the US is filled with the descendants of those immigrants. It isn't Utopia here by any means, but we are a stronger nation due to the energy and drive of our immigrants.
BTW, the Boston bombers were not raised here.
You can't keep them out. In fact, given the low birth rate in Germany, you need these refugees - young, some well educated, all with ambition. How well they assimilate is up to you. Will they learn German? That's somewhat dependent on you - will you encourage them or will you mock their accents? Will their children be "German?" Again, that's dependent on you - will you welcome their children or continue to deny them any rights because they were not born to German citizens?
The US underwent a similar change a hundred years ago when immigrants began arriving from Italy, Eastern Europe and other nations where blonde hair and blue eyes were not the norm. Those immigrants were denigrated for their poor hygiene, lack of education, and for the Jews, practice of a disliked religion. The White Anglo-Saxon Protestant populace bemoaned the damage to society and predicted that those people would never be able to function in the US.
The leadership of the US is filled with the descendants of those immigrants. It isn't Utopia here by any means, but we are a stronger nation due to the energy and drive of our immigrants.
BTW, the Boston bombers were not raised here.
1
I wonder what will be the legal status of both wives in a country where people are permitted to have only one spouse at a time. A substantial number of women could be affected by this, either by suddenly not being recognized as a legal wife or perhaps being left behind. It might be better to migrate to a country that recognizes and accepts polygamy.
6
First of all, many of the refugees are not "straight out of the middle ages". Secondly, Canadian experience with immigrants, and we are a country of immigrants, suggest that most people are keen to become productive members of society and have no interest living on welfare. They learn English and/or French, while they don't lose sight of their roots, as is their right. When I look at who is doing much of the practical skilled and semi-skilled jobs in the city where I live, I say thank goodness for immigration - don't know where we would be without it - perhaps in the Middle Ages.
This crisis was caused George Bush and Dick Cheney for their thoughtless and unwarranted invasion of Iraq, their utter hubris and lack of caring about the consequences; such greed. This crisis was caused by Colin Powell who knew the truth, as he confessed to the Guardian, and went ahead anyway. This crisis was caused by Tony Blair, eager little puppy for without his alliance, and Powell's, Americans not have supported this invasion They created Isis with firing the Iraq military. They recreated a hole that is being filled by Iran and other countries we call our enemies. Bush sits comfortably painting his feet in the bathtub. Cheney gets a heart to fill in the space where his has never existed. Now the Republicans scream to bomb Iran. How much disaster can one group of people create....evidently it's endless
31
Right. Russia has nothing at all to do with what's happening in Syria. Without the Iraq invasion, the "Arab Spring" would never have occurred, and the people of Syria, a country removed from Iraq, would never have acted upon their decades upon decades old sectarian tensions, resulting in a civil war that began during......the presidency of Barack Obama, who did nothing to help control the violence.
14
To be a bit more accurate, NONE of your villains caused this crisis. You are speaking of Iraq, not Syria from which the great bulk of the "migrants" or "refugees" come. If ANY American is to blame for what we are not watching it is our feckless hopelessly contemptible President, Barack Obama, who drew meaningless red lines in Syria, leading to false hopes and ultimate betrayal. And should we wish to go back further, don't the Muslims of all these brutal and barbarous states -- created out of their own culture for hundreds of years - have no responsibility? You say we "call Iran our enemy" as if that were a falsehood. You are such a whining Occidentalist you fail to see how much the Iranians hate us. And who is the "one group of people" who must endure all of this mayhem? If you mean the Arab Muslims and their Iranian enemies then hold them accountable. They are neither insane nor children. What is destroying them is their own sick cultures and imperial, totalitarian religion. We can make things a tad better or a tad worse, but if the Syrians or Iraqis or Iranians wish to find responsibility, they need only look in the mirror.
26
Please see the bigger picture in what Mcacho38 is trying to say. The region become unstable because of the Iraq war and has been unstable ever since. Don't you see that? So of course the Villains mentioned were involved in some fashion. That gang of four including Ms Rice is so hated in this country. I say we send them all over there to clean this up.
1
First Angela Merkel says to the world, Germany will take 800,000 migrants. Then hordes of these Merkel-invited migrants flood Hungary. Hungary tries to follow EU rules and register the migrants since Hungary is the point of entry nation. But, many many of the migrants don't want to do this. Some burn off fingerprints, some complain, some simply refuse to comply, many refuse to go the the transit registration areas, some complain they have no food or water. They all want to go to Germany. As well as leaving trash everywhere they go, some even throw away food and water given to them by Hungarian relief workers.
After a few days, Saint Angela, seeing the hugely increasing numbers of migrants overwhelming Hungarian processing capacity, announce that migrants can go directly to Gemany without registering in Hungary. The world media blames the conservative prime minister for Hungary for being too hard on the immigrants and uses this blame to justify the German Saint's latest declaration.
Then, when Germany is overwhelmed, when Germans are unhappy, the Saint closes Germany's borders,Austria closes borders, the migrants are piling up in Hungary again and the media once again villify Hungary, this time for building a fence and they continue showing the world pictures of children instead of the 75% of migrants who are young, unattached males.
Germany - largest + richest in EU, population 82,000,000
Hungary - small + poor, population 10,000,000
Ya gotta love the press!!!!!
After a few days, Saint Angela, seeing the hugely increasing numbers of migrants overwhelming Hungarian processing capacity, announce that migrants can go directly to Gemany without registering in Hungary. The world media blames the conservative prime minister for Hungary for being too hard on the immigrants and uses this blame to justify the German Saint's latest declaration.
Then, when Germany is overwhelmed, when Germans are unhappy, the Saint closes Germany's borders,Austria closes borders, the migrants are piling up in Hungary again and the media once again villify Hungary, this time for building a fence and they continue showing the world pictures of children instead of the 75% of migrants who are young, unattached males.
Germany - largest + richest in EU, population 82,000,000
Hungary - small + poor, population 10,000,000
Ya gotta love the press!!!!!
151
The press in Canada is priming us for the refugee influx particularly from Syria. News features abound of families fleeing strife, bombs, and looking for the safety Canada has to offer. I imagine this is going to be the beginning. One young Somali man said he came to Canada by accident, thought he had gotten on a plane in an African country but it turned out it was going to Canada. The newscaster was asking him how it had come to be that he got on the plane. His reply? A miracle, it was a miracle he said. Well, I guess we will believe anything.
27
You image this is going to be the beginning? Well, let's hope Canada takes their fair share.
1
Hungary is not a point of entry. Greece is. The migrants are moving freely because no one has the teams to stop them. They are belligerent.
7
One little thought...the Boston bombers tried came to the US and tried to integrate. They were disappointed in their lives and place in western society. They then became terrorists or some of their immediate families did. While we think on the heartfelt desires to be appropriate we are opening ourselves up to a future that has endless quality of life issues for all concerned. This mess needs to be addressed at the country causing the influx of those seeking refuge....not as those with bleeding hearts, while well meaning, see as the right solution. You can already see the huge changes we will see in the various countries. Is not going to be pleasant. Thus this craziness has to stop in terms of influx....frankly we are doomed to a changed society.
88
So very true. Europe is sowing the seeds of terror within their borders. How long till they reap the whirlwind? Je sui Charlie??
28
Oh come. The Boston Bombers were patsies. They were completely integrated drinking, smoking partiers. They didn't choose to be sacrificed by the Deep State's desire to create a hermetically sealed police state of credulous fools.
But the invasion of the west must be stopped, whatever the cause or origins.
But the invasion of the west must be stopped, whatever the cause or origins.
2
They did what they did no matter how you coach it. Integrated or not, they had their model to cause pain because of their own self-inflicted situation and how they perceived the world. This is what happens when you have ugly options...called terror within.
1
I began by having quite a bit of sympathy for these people and still do, to some extent. But their demands that they be allowed to settle wherever they desire, that this is their right and that they also have the right to ignore existing laws to do so is absurd and increasingly costing them the very sympathy they are going to need to start new lives.
142
Lou Good - Why shouldn't they be allowed to settle wherever they desire? Why shouldn't they have the right to ignore existing laws? Illegal aliens in the United States have these rights and more under this present administration and the Democratic Party.
6
Doesn't seem to be a problem for one political party here in the US. We have had 12 million people illegally enter the US and now we have a government who ignores existing laws and has done everything possible to prevent border states from handling the problem themselves and a political party that wants to make them all citizens.
Are they Migrants? Or Refugees? or members of ISIS? Three very different sets of laws for three different groups of people. Given the absolute chaos that has occurred in Greece, Italy, Serbia, Macedonia, and Hungary (to name a few) with thousands of migrants/refugees/ISIS members flowing through - who can blame Hungary for trying to take some control over what happens within their borders. I blame Germany. Germany chose not to heed calls for help for the last three years from countries dealing with migrant search and rescue.....then they get all preachy about Greek debt.....and then basically - they unilaterally decide to post an open invitation to everyone in the Middle East. If the EU falls apart - I am guessing that many countries are tired of being told what to do by Germany.
89
"Are they Migrants? Or Refugees? or members of ISIS?"
They're human beings. What else matters?
They're human beings. What else matters?
1
it's very possible ISIS is sending sleeper terrorist agents disguised as "refugee" families in order to commit acts of terrorism at a later date. No, screening, no problem. Now Russia is sending their terrorists to Syria according to an article in today's Times, so Putin definitely won't take any of these people. Finally some countries have woken up to reality.
24
Really?? So when Islamic terrorists slip thru, as ISIS has promised they will, perhaps they can move to Cleveland with you?
12
My heart goes out to many of these people trying to get to Europe and leave the less desirable places they are from. We should understand, however, that the more they let in, the more there will be in the pipeline who want to come. The Middle East has 400 million residents, about the same as Europe. There is no way Europe will be able to take all that want to come. Africa also has much unrest, and is much larger. The flow will continue until Europe gets tired after taking what will be, comparatively, a drop in the bucket. A Hungarian official reportedly said that there are people from approximately 100 countries. Somehow, the conditions in the countries from whence they come needs to improve. This is where particular effort needs to be undertaken. The group that made it to Europe first were the smart ones, because the door is going to slam shut. Europe is unfortunately just too small to take all of those who would like to come.
53
once you send out the message all are welcome then everyone will come. Foolish actions by Merkel and company. When will the Germans wake up?
50
My heart goes out to Sadaam Husein. He had every Arab under his control.
4
While it is a truly awful situation does it fall on deaf ears that one person was bringing his two wives with him. I don't think plural marriage is legal in any country in Europe so what is going to do pretend like he's only married to one while the other one is supposedly just a friend? The cultural gap along with the amount of migrants is too much for these countries to deal with quickly. It was a bad idea for Merkel to encourage everyone to take the rather perilous journey without having a system in place to support these people until they are able to find work, if they are able to find work. Just look at the amount of people arriving in Germany etc with winter not too far away. Was any thought given to what to do with these people to keep them warm and fed once the snow arrives? It seems like the energy and money that is going to be spent on this for decades would have been better used in finding them homes in a culture that is more similar to their own or at least one that would be easier for them to adjust to, accepted in.
116
@Scott:
"I don't think plural marriage is legal in any country in Europe"
It is not, but the European governments/courts are not going to annul polygamous marriages either, which may have adverse consequences for the wives.
"so what is going to do pretend like he's only married to one while the other one is supposedly just a friend?"
Not quite, and there are many cases from inheritance to divorce/custody/child support, where European (or US) courts would (rightfully) not outright deny the claims by the wives married in polygamous countries. But in the context of insurance and governmental benefits, usually the situation tends to be closer to "just a friend".
The whole question is the subject of so called conflict of laws, which not limited to polygamy, and in fact similar to the situation with same sex marriages across US states right before Obergefell v. Hodges. And US/European gay couples face similar issues, when they live in countries outlawing same sex marriage.
"I don't think plural marriage is legal in any country in Europe"
It is not, but the European governments/courts are not going to annul polygamous marriages either, which may have adverse consequences for the wives.
"so what is going to do pretend like he's only married to one while the other one is supposedly just a friend?"
Not quite, and there are many cases from inheritance to divorce/custody/child support, where European (or US) courts would (rightfully) not outright deny the claims by the wives married in polygamous countries. But in the context of insurance and governmental benefits, usually the situation tends to be closer to "just a friend".
The whole question is the subject of so called conflict of laws, which not limited to polygamy, and in fact similar to the situation with same sex marriages across US states right before Obergefell v. Hodges. And US/European gay couples face similar issues, when they live in countries outlawing same sex marriage.
Why is the USofA not stepping up to the plate and taking its fair share of refugees ? The entire crisis in Syria is linked directly back to the US led war that brought down Saddam Hussain. The leader of ISIS Al Baghdadi was imprisoned and then released by the US forces in Iraq.
The population density is far lower in the USofA there than it is in Western Europe. There is more than enough land there. America the land of the free must take a significant number of refugees.
The population density is far lower in the USofA there than it is in Western Europe. There is more than enough land there. America the land of the free must take a significant number of refugees.
20
We already have as many as 30 million illegal immigrants here thanks.
45
Why not take them to "Dubai, UAE" or Qatar (instead of spending billions for air conditioned stadium and millions in bribes to FIFA), or Mecca, Saudi Arabia. They could definitely integrate better over there.
18
How many is Dubai helping? Oh I forgot, they don't really want to live in your country, either. Many refugees are also fleeing theocracy. Well, you have the money to help this situation, instead of criticizing.
4
Is very easy to sit in judgement with two large oceans to protect us from the political and economic challenges of mass migration. While the USA opens its borders to refugees, re settling thousands every year, the bureaucratic process is long and difficult. Here in New Haven, Afghans (many former translators for US armed forces) have been re settled, often after 1 - 2 years waiting for various documents and screenings to wind through the state department. My question is where is UNHCR? Shouldn't the EU and USA be working through the UN to set up refugee settements as they move out of Syria, into the border countries of Europe?
42
Why not the countries in the Mideast who are using Syria as a proxy war? What is wrong with Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran? The religion of peace should not have people fleeing to Europe.
24
Well Jordan has taken more than their share. But you're absolutely right about Saudi Arabia and Iran.
1
Jordan is helping 100's of thousands. They need financial aid for their effort.
1
As Hungary is systematically ignoring the Geneva Convention in dealing with refugees, there is ample cause of thinking that its Prime Minister is pandering to the far-right parties (Jobbik, or "Movement for a Better Hungary") in redirecting zenophobic charges against refugees who have fled across the Balkans on foot. There seems to be a significant distortion of the need for international cooperation in framing such a short-sighted reaction to the truly global crisis of immigration in local terms by such recasting of international conventions of accepting refugees in local legal terms, in ways that are by no means limited to Hungary alone--see a broader consideration of Viktor Orban's polemic and self-serving construction of this border barrier, at http://wp.me/p36T6t-40n--but is a particularly dangerous crisis of human rights.
4
Can I ask what part of the Geneva Convention to which you refer that isn't applying to the migrants crossing the Mediterranean for the last year? And why it seems only to apply to migrants who appear white crossing a land border in plain violation of law when there are legal procedures, in your opinion?
10
There has been considerable voice given to the right of all nations to protect their borders. But the question turns on how those crossing the Balkans are cast as "migrants" rather than being recognized as refugees in order to deny them the protection to which they are entitled by law. These are not migrants, but individuals seeking asylum whose countries are not able to protect them. The fence and "transit area" are likely to encourage riskier options of transit. Your question is valid, but these refugees are crossing the Balkans in search of asylum.
1
If they would join Assad'so army, they would have protection. The left can't have it both ways: if Saddam was worth keeping in place, so is Bashar.
2
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S. Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
7
Jews were a persecuted minority. These people (mostly) are not, and are not in immediate danger. My heart goes out to these people and i don't know what the solution is, but there are clear definitons under international asylum law. Members of persecuted minorities are given priority in seeking asylum.
14
Tony
Not a valid comparison. Of course we should have taken in Jews. To begin with, they were targeted for genocide. Not the case with the Syrian migrants. Also, there were no Jewish terrorists waiting to slip into America and wreak havoc as suicide bombers. No potential "lone wolf" terrorists either. The Jews were Just people excited to join our culture, obey our laws, learn our language and be forever grateful to America. Like my father, a survivor of Auschwitz. Syrians, not so much. They are already complaining that they aren't getting their way in Europe.
Not a valid comparison. Of course we should have taken in Jews. To begin with, they were targeted for genocide. Not the case with the Syrian migrants. Also, there were no Jewish terrorists waiting to slip into America and wreak havoc as suicide bombers. No potential "lone wolf" terrorists either. The Jews were Just people excited to join our culture, obey our laws, learn our language and be forever grateful to America. Like my father, a survivor of Auschwitz. Syrians, not so much. They are already complaining that they aren't getting their way in Europe.
7
There is much human suffering in the Mideast that i feel so fortunate to be living in the US. It is heart breaking to watch. I am skeptical of the way the press and TV news is reporting this story. The plight if the poor migrants is show time and time again without the story of the big picture. Who is responsible? Who is profiting on the smuggled migrants? What countries are enabling these migrants to leave Turkish camps and why? We need a sober view of this crisis from the press with a bigger picture of reasons why this is occurring.
15
In the 1950's I remember a lovely little girl from Hungary that came to our school and joined my 6th grade class. Her country had been invaded by the Russians and America and much of the rest of the world opened their doors to allow the 500,000 Hungarian refugees an opportunity to a new life. It is shameful that the Hungarian government has chosen to forget what it is like to be so afraid and desperate that leaving your country for a chance to live in peace and safety with the possibility of a job and dignity is the only option. you have.
40
About 200,000 Hungarians fled to the West in 1956. The U.S. took in 35,000.
7
Now that Russia has left Hungay, these refugees from Hungary and their descendants can go back to Hungary.
Lots of refugees in New Hampshire, are there?
4
Putin & Assad must be laughing at the mess going on in Europe. How clever to stage a weaponless invasion. What a brilliant way to disrupt the EU.
44
Seems to me Hungary is doing the only thing it can reasonably do. It can't accommodate the millions of refugees to come, nor can it deal with the lawlessness and depletion of resources involved in letting anybody walk across Hungary who wants to, living off the land and getting involved in traditional terrorist attacks.
The refugees are claiming they want to go to Germany and Denmark and thus they should be able to. If I claimed I wanted to go to Dubai and that Dubai should provide for all my needs, food, housing, and so on, would that make any sense to anybody?
Sorry but people don't have the right to waltz into any country and claim instant citizenship because they managed to get there, or because they really want it. The way to stop the refugee crisis is to end the wars causing the refugees, and they can only be ended by overwhelming external force. The longer it takes the world to accept that, the greater the damage will be.
Soon enough every rational nation is going to do what Hungary is doing here. Shortly after that the refugee boats will be sunk at sea with no attempts to rescue survivors. Better that we put a stop to the cause of the refugee crisis before that eventuality, because there's really no doubt that that's the end of this path.
The refugees are claiming they want to go to Germany and Denmark and thus they should be able to. If I claimed I wanted to go to Dubai and that Dubai should provide for all my needs, food, housing, and so on, would that make any sense to anybody?
Sorry but people don't have the right to waltz into any country and claim instant citizenship because they managed to get there, or because they really want it. The way to stop the refugee crisis is to end the wars causing the refugees, and they can only be ended by overwhelming external force. The longer it takes the world to accept that, the greater the damage will be.
Soon enough every rational nation is going to do what Hungary is doing here. Shortly after that the refugee boats will be sunk at sea with no attempts to rescue survivors. Better that we put a stop to the cause of the refugee crisis before that eventuality, because there's really no doubt that that's the end of this path.
176
Sounds good, Dan. Any ideas on how "we" can accomplish this?
1
Dan - agree with you completely, even if saying it sounds a bit cruel. I am struggling with clarity around refugee vs migrant. Don't really believe that they are all refugees, seems to me the real refugees are the ones that can't get out.
3
So the only way to end wars is to have even bigger ones. Apparently overwhelming force is all that is required. Reasons behind, complexities on the ground, political and other, along with context, be damned.
How is this a NYT pick?
NIMBYism abounds.
How is this a NYT pick?
NIMBYism abounds.
As much as I think that people in need should get help, it is unreasonable for the needy to impose upon others what kind of help they should get.
Apart from being "refugees", most of these migrants are also lawbreakers, barging into whichever countries they like and even refusing formalities to undergo check-ups (see the recent case in Denmark, where they refused to get off a train for police identity check and fingerprinting).
Legitimate demands should be met, but IN DUE FORM, that is by asking for asylum in the country which they first enter (Greece, Italy), or in the UN centers that are functioning in Lebanon, Jordania, etc. Why do they want to by-pass it? Maybe because it's not only safety they look for, but also free housing, free meals and some financial "aids", which they risk not getting through legal avenues. They've heard that the biggest pies are in Germany and Sweden, so they go for it. And what the heck, if the mana ever dries up in one place, they can always move on to another. Whoever refuses that is a racist. Is he?
Apart from being "refugees", most of these migrants are also lawbreakers, barging into whichever countries they like and even refusing formalities to undergo check-ups (see the recent case in Denmark, where they refused to get off a train for police identity check and fingerprinting).
Legitimate demands should be met, but IN DUE FORM, that is by asking for asylum in the country which they first enter (Greece, Italy), or in the UN centers that are functioning in Lebanon, Jordania, etc. Why do they want to by-pass it? Maybe because it's not only safety they look for, but also free housing, free meals and some financial "aids", which they risk not getting through legal avenues. They've heard that the biggest pies are in Germany and Sweden, so they go for it. And what the heck, if the mana ever dries up in one place, they can always move on to another. Whoever refuses that is a racist. Is he?
78
I tell you, Trump is going to win election here, because bat-crazy and diva narcissistic as he is, he's the only one supporting rule of law in immigration, which the Dems don't understand.
2
We had an entire contingent of Hungarian nuns, refugees from the Hungarian Uprising, wash up at St. Paulinas in Clairton PA in 1957.
Hungarian Sister Lorenzo, a real hoot, though she did not mean to be, would, if we were good, regal us with horror stories of the Soviet troops wanting to get closer, if you will, to these brides of Christ.
Hungarian Sister Lorenzo, a real hoot, though she did not mean to be, would, if we were good, regal us with horror stories of the Soviet troops wanting to get closer, if you will, to these brides of Christ.
8
Hungary is using its head and accessing the present and, especially, future situation. And it should be thanked and congratulated for the merciless bullying and insults thrown its way.
This crisis could have been Chancellor Merkel's great moment. But she trashed it with her sentimental, thoughtless humanitarianism.
This crisis could have been Chancellor Merkel's great moment. But she trashed it with her sentimental, thoughtless humanitarianism.
110
I would call it a combination of naivete, incompetence and a complete disregard for German citizens. Germans usually plan things before they act. It appears her apparent feeling of 'power' got the upper hand and deactivated her commen sense.
Now we will have to suffer the consequences for along time to come. I am also glad that Hungary has taken the lead and closed the borders. We could use some leaderhip here in Germany right now.
Now we will have to suffer the consequences for along time to come. I am also glad that Hungary has taken the lead and closed the borders. We could use some leaderhip here in Germany right now.
6
Hungary is in breach of the Conventions of both the UN and the EU on the handling of refugees. While Hungary can't be kicked out of the UN, it can be sanctioned by the Security Council and be made to pay a heavy price for its illegal and inhuman actions. It can be expelled from the EU for failure to respect the laws of the Community. The international community, at both the level of the UN and the European Union should immediately begin measures to sanction Hungary at the UN and expel it from membership in the EU unless it eases the situation at the border immediately and arranges for the transit of these refugees through their territory promptly. If they complain they can't afford it, they can dip into the funds they will need to prepare the Budapest bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics; that will free-up roughly 50 million dollars.
On an urgent basis, Hungary must be made to prove that it is ready for a place in the company of civilized communities prepared to obey basic humanitarian law to which it is a signatory. Banning them from the Olympic bid may also be an appropriate consideration, because their behaviour is totally inconsistent with the values of the international Olympic movement. The civilized World does not need a repeat of Berlin 1933 in Budapest 2024.
On an urgent basis, Hungary must be made to prove that it is ready for a place in the company of civilized communities prepared to obey basic humanitarian law to which it is a signatory. Banning them from the Olympic bid may also be an appropriate consideration, because their behaviour is totally inconsistent with the values of the international Olympic movement. The civilized World does not need a repeat of Berlin 1933 in Budapest 2024.
4
Canada is rich enough. Take a 100000 Syrians instead of 10000. This year a over a 100000 have registered in Hungary already. BTW the US is planning to take 10000 and they created this whole mass with the Iraq invasion.
8
There is no "humanitarian law" that requires Hungary to take a migrant who is safely in Serbia and was safely in Greece, and Turkey before that, and give them admission, or send them anywhere else. What on Earth are you talking about?
79
Given how chronically indecisive the EU is, it's unlikely that Hungary will every experience sanctions. And as time goes on, more countries in the EU may behave in the same way. Should they be sanctioned, too?
16
Shouldn't we at least have some type of ship, together with some Coastguard cutters stationed out there to rescue these people and transport then to one of the six Gulf countries -- Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman and Bahrain who thus far haven't declared emergency refugee status for their own Sunni brothern and opening up their own borders to accept them?
73
I love the way the press attempts to find the "correct" descriptive term. They were refugees, now they are "migrants." Are they truly migrants, looking for a new home? Are they immigrants? Are they transients?
How about "future citizens?"
How about "future citizens?"
10
These aren't immigrants, they are refugees from war. Plain and simple.
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S. Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S. Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
4
The euphemism dejour is 'economic migrants'.
They are called illegal immigrants of they are Latins coming to the USA under the same circumstances.
By the way, they are in no way refugees looking for asylum. They had that when they reached Turkey, Greece or Serbia. They want the freebies being offered by Germany, just read their own comments, this is why they are amazing at the border.
They are called illegal immigrants of they are Latins coming to the USA under the same circumstances.
By the way, they are in no way refugees looking for asylum. They had that when they reached Turkey, Greece or Serbia. They want the freebies being offered by Germany, just read their own comments, this is why they are amazing at the border.
24
How offensive of Hungary and all the other targeted EU nations. It's not like there's a thousand years of historical reports describing what's likely to happen when large numbers of young, healthy males from the Middle East (85% + of the current migrants, according to multiple sources) decide that your country would be a really cool place to hang out.
110
Google 'Hungary Ottoman Empire' to see what the problem is.
2
Every nation has the right to protect its borders and to enforce the rule of law.
168
Hungary is not enforcing the rule of law. Its legal system has been a sham since the new Basic Law (a.k.a. Constitution) went into effect on 1/1/2012.
Hungary has also been busy for the last five years under the current government to extend its governmental powers into other countries, notably Romania. If you are worried about a country upending the borders in Europe, then you should be outraged at the actions of Hungary under its current government.
Hungary has also been busy for the last five years under the current government to extend its governmental powers into other countries, notably Romania. If you are worried about a country upending the borders in Europe, then you should be outraged at the actions of Hungary under its current government.
The more migrants taken in, the more will be on the doorstep. Demanding any nation take in a "quota" of migrants is futile and meaningless. How long will the new "arrivals" be warmly welcomed? My guess is that by the end of the month, the party will be over. Then hostility and bitterness and violence will follow.
111
And this is a picky group of migrants. They only want to go to Germany and Sweden and in those countries, they only want to live in the big cities. So the whole idea of quotas is ultimately meaningless.
72
If one does not have laws and rules which are enforced one has chaos which is what Europe now has. Germany cannot absorb all of Syria and North Africa and remain Germany for very long. A large percentage of the Syrian migrants are men of military age. If they want a better Syria they should fight for one and not just run to the European welfare states for hand outs. I cannot believe that the European tax payers will put up with this invasion for much longer.
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'Ms. Merkel responded on Tuesday by saying that finger-pointing was not helpful. “If we now start to have to excuse ourselves for the fact that we show a friendly face in an emergency, then that is not my country,” she said.'
Showing a friendly face and allowing close to a million migrants into Germany in one year are not quite the same thing. It is also being reported that many in Germany are reacting negatively to the imposition by its central government of new taxes close to $7 billion to deal with this massive influx of people.
I am surprised that Ms. Merkel, being so well educated, seems unable to comprehend that making statements that 500,000 more migrants will be welcome in Germany over the next several years could create an upheaval in German society, as well as overwhelming countries of entry, like Hungary, Greece and Italy. The majority of newcomers are Muslim, whose creed is antithetical to open, democratic societies. How she cannot see these issues as potentially large problems in the future is hard to understand.
Showing a friendly face and allowing close to a million migrants into Germany in one year are not quite the same thing. It is also being reported that many in Germany are reacting negatively to the imposition by its central government of new taxes close to $7 billion to deal with this massive influx of people.
I am surprised that Ms. Merkel, being so well educated, seems unable to comprehend that making statements that 500,000 more migrants will be welcome in Germany over the next several years could create an upheaval in German society, as well as overwhelming countries of entry, like Hungary, Greece and Italy. The majority of newcomers are Muslim, whose creed is antithetical to open, democratic societies. How she cannot see these issues as potentially large problems in the future is hard to understand.
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I think Madam Merkel should listen, and inwardly digest, the voices of her own citizens and, offer free transport to one of the six Gulf countries -- Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman and Bahrain who thus far haven't declared emergency refugee status for their own Sunni brothern and opening up their own borders to accept them?
37
If this were 1941, the headline would be "Many Obstacles Are Seen to U.S. Taking in Large Number of Jewish Refugees". We should all be ashamed - this country is special and should exercise more compassion. Our leaders have destabilized the Middle East (due to incompetence, not bad intentions) but now this is all Europe's problem ?
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. At the very least we should use our still considerable influence to get our ME "allies" to accept refugees if the public at large is too busy with the beginning of football season to remember what this country is about. But I am confident that if the media did a better job of explaining the magnitude of this crisis, the American people would rise to the occasion.
2
three times for for your forlon opinion is 2 maybe evn 3 times too many.
And if you really are in Kopenhagen, maybe you should talk to you own government which has closed Demark's borders and will not accept any migrants.
And if you really are in Kopenhagen, maybe you should talk to you own government which has closed Demark's borders and will not accept any migrants.
2
My, my, a country that actually wants to control their border. Who knew.
164
Hungary does not want to control its border. It has been trying to redraw the borders for the last five years under the current government. If you are worried about countries upending the sovereignty of other countries, then you should be upset at Hungary's recent history.
Where do you get this "It has been trying to redraw the borders for the last five years"?? Completely false.
1
There were periods of massive immigration into the United States. I don't remember it being an out of control free-for-all. Ellis Island on the East Coast, Angel Island and the U.S. Quarantine Station--both on the West Coast, were processing centers that ensured orderly and legal processing of immigrants.
No organization, looking the other way, and no leadership (except Germany's mercurial shifts) in Europe today are compounding the problems. Hungary is absolutely right to try and impose some order. What a mess.
No organization, looking the other way, and no leadership (except Germany's mercurial shifts) in Europe today are compounding the problems. Hungary is absolutely right to try and impose some order. What a mess.
141
Yes, it is a mess. And WHO is in charge? That is the problem.
4
I agree, but different times. The US immigration, in mass numbers, was to a country with much room to grow and no welfare benefits to be obtained.
2
Indicative of the fact that most are migrants and not refugees -- an important ethical and legal distinction -- is the following from the article: "Migrants stuck at the border threatened on Tuesday to conduct a hunger strike. About 200 migrants chanted 'Open, open, open! and 'Germany! Germany!'"
Refugees would thank whatever God they believed in that they had made it to Europe, not threatening hunger strikes if not allowed to go to Germany.
Refugees would thank whatever God they believed in that they had made it to Europe, not threatening hunger strikes if not allowed to go to Germany.
203
What Hungary seems to be overlooking is that these refugees have no interest in staying there. They want to get THROUGH Hungary on their way to countries like Germany and England, etc. that are willing to take them in. Locking them up in Hungary is therefore a self-inflicted wound.
6
Why is Hungary being criticized? Why not Russia or Iran or even China?
1
Hungary realizes the migrants don't want to stay, but the question is, how long will this go on? It's a strain on a relatively poor country like Hungary to have hundreds of thousands of unregistered people streaming through their country for the forseeable future. And they get no thanks for it and are expected by Germany to foot the bill.
13
Do you really think that the EU countries mind Hungary being the gate keeper?
3
This is what happens when the media tries to influence foreign policy through advocacy journalism instead of just reporting the facts.
169
Yes, we constantly see pictures of women and children (whose suffering I do empathize with), when in fact, the vast majority of the migrants are healthy young men glued to their cell phones.
33
The Hungarian government has exerted outrageous influence of the media. They have tried to shut down alternate voices at a shocking rate. If you are concerned about a country trying to influence foreign policy through advocacy journalism, then you should be outraged by the actions of the Hungarian government since Fidesz gained a supermajority in Parliament in 2010l
It is actually the Western media that consistently presents a distorted picture of the situation in Hungary.
2
Good for Hungary defending its borders. At least one nation has a responsibility to its people and not the wandering horde looking for handouts.
182
Hungary is not responsible to its people. It only defends people who are supporters of the ruling party, Fidesz. Hungary has been demonizing certain residents for the sake of political power. The current refugee crisis is just their newest enemy.
Supporters of the Hungarian government usually claim that there's a world-wide conspiracy against them, led by the liberal press, which for them include the Wall Street Journal. Basically, it's as if Breitbart News ran a country and that everyone who disagreed with them was not considered citizens.
Please don't claim that Hungary is defending its people without understanding the country better.
Supporters of the Hungarian government usually claim that there's a world-wide conspiracy against them, led by the liberal press, which for them include the Wall Street Journal. Basically, it's as if Breitbart News ran a country and that everyone who disagreed with them was not considered citizens.
Please don't claim that Hungary is defending its people without understanding the country better.
I understand the country quite well, and let me tell you Raul Rothblatt :
Your comment sounds like straight out of the playbook of then opposition.
Your comment sounds like straight out of the playbook of then opposition.
1
Hungary is requiring asylum applicants to apply for asylum in the first safe country they encounter, which would be Serbia. For those who wish to apply for asylum in the EU, Hungary is following the Dublin Regulation in requiring people to apply at official crossing points in Hungary. For people who claim to just want to be safe, there certainly seems to be quite a bit of belligerence, as well as occasional violence, at not being allowed to cherry pick the countries of their choice. Are they prepared to be lawful EU residents or will they always demand their way? Merkel has not served Europe well by constantly revising which EU laws Germany will follow and which it will not on any given day.
292
Of course they will demand their way. And it won't stop here. Wherever they end up, they will demand welfare benefits and endless accommodations for their culture and sharia law. The gates have been opened and Europe will reap the whirlwind.
158
No, the first, safe, EU country they reach is Greece. Which we know cannot afford to feed and shelter them.
It is putative NATO "ally" Turkey which is allowing this mass migration just like it is buying stolen Iraqi and Syrian oil from ISIS, acting as a transit point for global jihadi wanna be's on their way to join ISIS and bombing our only dependable ally the Kurds.
It is putative NATO "ally" Turkey which is allowing this mass migration just like it is buying stolen Iraqi and Syrian oil from ISIS, acting as a transit point for global jihadi wanna be's on their way to join ISIS and bombing our only dependable ally the Kurds.
32
Refugees have a right to decide in which country they wish to seek refuge.
Hungary is operating correctly.
The chaos must be stopped. The migrants will get the message and stop coming to Europe. An orderly controlled flow of refugees from refuge camps at the source is the only way this will work.
A complete free-for-all rush on Europe's borders spells disaster for all involved.
The chaos must be stopped. The migrants will get the message and stop coming to Europe. An orderly controlled flow of refugees from refuge camps at the source is the only way this will work.
A complete free-for-all rush on Europe's borders spells disaster for all involved.
302
A martial response and internment camps, then what?
1
Well we certainly can't have any "chaos" now, can we? Apparently you didn't get--or refuse to believe--the memo about how Syria and Iraq people are being bombed and murdered on a daily basis. And you must think it's their own fault that they are hungry and homeless...because, you know we must have order around here.
Please stop your nonsense and recognize that families and children are suffering, and seeking refuge in nations that have the means and resources to help is what they should do.
Please stop your nonsense and recognize that families and children are suffering, and seeking refuge in nations that have the means and resources to help is what they should do.
3
Actually 85% of the migrants are young men.
28
The rule of law must prevail or there is no such thing as human rights. I feel terrible for the migrants but we can't just expect sovereign states to drop their laws to cater to one group. The law must be applied to everyone. We need to work with allies in the region to build temporary refugee camps where the migrants can go and wait to be legally processed into the those states that can afford to take them in. The goal should be temporary with the idea of them returning after Syria is stable.
225
Syria will never be "stable". If Assad stops killing everyone, there will be reprisals for his barbarity. He can never make Syria a functioning country. If ISIS takes over, certainly nobody will want to live there again.
The rule of law has failed to exist in Hungary since the new Basic Law (a.k.a. Constitution) was enacted on January 1, 2012. The current government has passed many laws diminishing human rights from freedom of religion, freedom of press and equality before the law. Hungary has been flouting its legal obligations as a member of the EU, and of NATO. It's not surprising that the country is flouting its obligations towards refugees as a member of the UN.
If you care about the rule of law, then you probably want your government to take a more aggressive stance to make it return to Hungary. The current refugee crisis has only brought the pre-existing crisis to light.
If you care about the rule of law, then you probably want your government to take a more aggressive stance to make it return to Hungary. The current refugee crisis has only brought the pre-existing crisis to light.
If you're scared for your life or the safety of your family, I don't think you care about national borders, immigration law or administrative process. Laws are great, but when people are threatened, they need to be made safe.
Why is the Times now calling refugees migrants? When and why did they decide that status change, and who are they to make that distinction?
22
Every one of these people entering the Euro zone is a migrant because none of them is entering from a war zone. Persons entering Turkey from Syria are war refugees. Once they migrate from Turkey into the EU they are in effect economic migrants .
145
The Times has been consistently -- and correctly -- identifying these as migrants.
29
It seems like in the first safe country they reach they are refugees and in every country thereafter they are migrants.
49
Who are we to pass judgment on Hungary? They are acting on behalf of their own security. If even 2% of those migrants are ISIS, that presents a huge problem.
228
Europe (and the U.S. eventually) have more than ISIS operatives to fear. Eventually, when these young men feel that they are not being catered to and treated the way they anticipated, we can expect "lone wolf" attacks as well
53
I am Hungarian. My family is from Hungary, and I have lived there and followed their culture and politics very closely. The Hungarian government has followed a chilling policy of xenophobia for years—I hope you would not give them such a pass without understanding them.
I am glad that the world is finally realizing the frightening developments of the Hungarian government. Please don't fall for the government rhetoric so easily.
If you are serious about following the details of Hungarian politics, this is a wonky and excellent site: http://hungarianspectrum.org/
I am glad that the world is finally realizing the frightening developments of the Hungarian government. Please don't fall for the government rhetoric so easily.
If you are serious about following the details of Hungarian politics, this is a wonky and excellent site: http://hungarianspectrum.org/
What is the plan in supporting all of these people? Who can blame Hungary for protecting its borders? I am having a very hard time grasping why there is not more of a social uprising in the EU countries, Germany included, in having upwards of a million migrants forced upon them and their tax dollars.
177
Actually Germany would like these migrants to attend Octoberfest, spend their money on beer and sausages, and then return to their country of origin.
1
I am educated and consider myself to be a bit intelligent. Looking at the world map, I need to understand how are these people ending up in Hungary when there is so much distance between Syria and the Hungarian border. There are several other countries that are in the way and why is it that there are no measures to make an "orderly" resettlement of these folks at the first point of entry. There is something not correct with this picture and I believe that the situation is being created to start another war or expand the western role in Syria.
These migrants, or refugees, or whatever you want to call them, need to be processed at the first point where they land in a non-conflict zone and not when they are half way into Europe. Like, we stop (or try to stop) Mexicans at the El Paso crossing (for ex) and not when they are in OK City.
These migrants, or refugees, or whatever you want to call them, need to be processed at the first point where they land in a non-conflict zone and not when they are half way into Europe. Like, we stop (or try to stop) Mexicans at the El Paso crossing (for ex) and not when they are in OK City.
218
You are asking very good questions. The brouhaha about Hungary is because it is the first country within the Schengen free travel zone where by EU law all the migrants and refuges have to register. EU law mandates that their asylum application has to be adjudicated by the first Schengen EU country they enter. Germany suspended enforcement for a while that's why so many were allowed to proceed there but Austria objected the entire time saying that the migrants have to be registered in Hungary. By the way migrants crossing Hngary were 40 pct Syrian, the rest from the Balkans, afghani, Bangladeshi, Pakistani and they will not get asylum even from Germany.
25
You are missing two critical points: first, there is a world of difference between provisions for refugees and for migrants. Second, the extent of this influx is sudden, some countries are EU members, others are not, and there simply hasn't been the time or inclination amongst them to become coordinated for handling this problem. So the refugees are caught in the middle of legal and political muddles they would have known nothing about as they fled for their lives to safer refuge.
1
That would have been the case had Merkel consulted the other EU member states and allowed everyone time to prepare to handle the flow of refugees and limit the number from the beginning. Instead she extended an open invitaiton to come to Germany and now everyone has to react. The situation is out of control and Hungary is doing the only thing it can to re-establish order.
The migrants, most are not really refugees, are demanding and need to be dealt with in no uncertain terms. Mrs. Merkel is unable to do this so we need Mr Orban.
The migrants, most are not really refugees, are demanding and need to be dealt with in no uncertain terms. Mrs. Merkel is unable to do this so we need Mr Orban.
3
Hungary, a poor country compared to its wealthier neighbors, was put into an untenable position. Why won't the Germans or the EU organize an airlift from Serbia to Germany?
54
An airlift from Syria?
1
There is one more thing. EU decided to give 2 500 000 000 € to manage refugees/migrants.
Despite the fact Hungary absorbed around 30% of incoming migrants, there was allocated only 2,5% from these money.
Despite the fact Hungary absorbed around 30% of incoming migrants, there was allocated only 2,5% from these money.
9
Tamora 17, msd wrote Serbia, not Syria. Two different countries.
3