China needs these tech companies badly…..that is our leverage…..but Apple and other very cash rich tech companies should not keep their profits offshore, but start manufacturing in North America for one, and let China innovate on their own. It would be good jobs for many here and would eliminate any issues of trade breakdowns, shipping/port entry, pollution & toxicity, natural disasters or the inevitable social unrest in China where manufacturing workers are being stiffed and the company owners embezzle the money and move to luxe real estate in the USA to avoid prosecution by the Chinese authorities.
2
Unlike sanctions imposed on Russia, this will be bruising to American industries.
What do American values of "Freedom" stand for?
Becoming safe haven to corrupt Chinese officials and economic fugitives in spite of clear evidences that their gains were ill-gotten while freezing financial and property assets of legitimate companies to kill off credible foreign competition despite the lack of any concrete evidence on Chinese cyber espionage, even as Snowden had to hide from the entire "Free World" just to be able to speak out about American govt. spying on the whole World, including every one of its closest allies!
This, the pinnacle of hypocrisy, characteristic of the exceptionalism of the greatest nation on Earth!
What do American values of "Freedom" stand for?
Becoming safe haven to corrupt Chinese officials and economic fugitives in spite of clear evidences that their gains were ill-gotten while freezing financial and property assets of legitimate companies to kill off credible foreign competition despite the lack of any concrete evidence on Chinese cyber espionage, even as Snowden had to hide from the entire "Free World" just to be able to speak out about American govt. spying on the whole World, including every one of its closest allies!
This, the pinnacle of hypocrisy, characteristic of the exceptionalism of the greatest nation on Earth!
2
A good chance to watch national security versus internet/telecommunications global markets operation debate.
As far the cyber space goes, 20th century rules of international espionage must be reviewed and update. Cyber espionage is a new ball game where national security needs intertwine with internet corporation global markets profit making. Security and privacy are key elements of this debate.
As far the cyber space goes, 20th century rules of international espionage must be reviewed and update. Cyber espionage is a new ball game where national security needs intertwine with internet corporation global markets profit making. Security and privacy are key elements of this debate.
The problem is not, as some have commented, the greed of the 1% Rather, it is much of the 99%, which would happily follow Apple, Facebook, and the rest of the tech corporations into the jaws of hell, enamored as they are with all their gadgetry and wares, junkies in every basic sense of the term.
If there were now a repeat of the Tianamen Square confrontation of 1989, I have no doubt that Americans, especially the younger half, would contentedly sit on the sidelines watching the massacre on Chinese made tablets and phones, registering their displeasure in impassioned terms on Chinese gadgetry, refusing to give up purchasing products from companies that sell out American security and human rights interests, as well as the human rights interests of the Chinese 99%.
Yes, the American tech 1% mostly look at China as a source of cash. However, it is the 99% who bear some responsibility as enablers.
If there were now a repeat of the Tianamen Square confrontation of 1989, I have no doubt that Americans, especially the younger half, would contentedly sit on the sidelines watching the massacre on Chinese made tablets and phones, registering their displeasure in impassioned terms on Chinese gadgetry, refusing to give up purchasing products from companies that sell out American security and human rights interests, as well as the human rights interests of the Chinese 99%.
Yes, the American tech 1% mostly look at China as a source of cash. However, it is the 99% who bear some responsibility as enablers.
8
According to the article, the U.S. is saying that cyberattacks are the problem.
In my opinion, spying and snooping on every person who uses the net and mobile phones is just as big a problem.
Even in cyberspace, the U.S. should have equally big and heavy counterweight, it would be sad if it turns out to be China.
In my opinion, spying and snooping on every person who uses the net and mobile phones is just as big a problem.
Even in cyberspace, the U.S. should have equally big and heavy counterweight, it would be sad if it turns out to be China.
I am not fan of Mr Trump, but who is negotiating US interests? China has nothing but the opportunity to export their trinkets. If we send a couple of container ships back their system collapses. But before we are completely taken out by China, before the last bit of industry leaves our shores, just maybe it is time to negotiate from strength?
If Google and Facebook can't operate in China why can Alibaba in the US? Are we only milk toast weaklings?
The Chinese suck down our Office of Personal Management database and we suck our thumbs?
If Google and Facebook can't operate in China why can Alibaba in the US? Are we only milk toast weaklings?
The Chinese suck down our Office of Personal Management database and we suck our thumbs?
2
Wrong. The majority of China's exports to the US are actually US companies that outsource. Is Apple a Chinese company? No, but because they're Made in China they're considered Chinese exports yet China makes no money from them when sold to consumers. How many actual Chinese companies can you name on US store shelves. You don't need the fingers on one hand to count them all. So how do those few companies account for the trade deficit? They don't. So go ahead and send those ships back. China will get ship loads of free iPhones to sell for profit for themselves.
3
China never stopped ebay and Amazon from operating in China though. I hope you do know Alibaba is an ecommerce giant, right? Could you blame the Chinese govt. if they got beaten by Alibaba in China, fair and square? If Alibaba were to operate in the US while ignoring American laws, would you allow that? :)
I didn't read this article, but I know that when you do push people, they will push back. Any where, any time. The history books and the records of our divorce courts give ample evidence to this!
1
Chinese communist government fails to represent Chinese people, moreover, what Chinese people are longing for is even equivalent to what the communist government dismisses most. The closure stemming from the politics, affecting the world economics though, hurts Chinese itself actually. The desire to solidate the reign and safeguard the interests of the leadership has been the top priority, therefore, block the freedom of information to hide the evil things the government has done to its people and to crush the craving of the people for the social changes and democracy. The government is relishing taking advantage of the culture for its own sovereignty, and the censorship really helps isolate the Chinese culture from the world. Any betterment of the culture will be the disaster for the sovereignty.
The closure didn’t contribute to promoting the technical innovation of Chinese companies, instead, the man-made monopoly has incurred the ease and laziness that have trapped many Chinese companies, and the plagiarism is rampant in China, for example.
Chinese government is redefining the shame, which is haunting all the Chinese in the world, me included.
The closure didn’t contribute to promoting the technical innovation of Chinese companies, instead, the man-made monopoly has incurred the ease and laziness that have trapped many Chinese companies, and the plagiarism is rampant in China, for example.
Chinese government is redefining the shame, which is haunting all the Chinese in the world, me included.
Are you in Beijing? Really! How do you access the NY Times?
1
What will be showcased is the technolgy the Chinese have stolen from others, put a few lights, and call it innovation.
5
Oh you mean how for hundreds and even thousands of years - others took and used Chinese inventions. Such is life. Don't be surprised though if in 10 years they are the innovators again.
2
The Obama administration is on the verge of bringing criminal charges against Chinese cyberspies in retaliation for wreaking havoc on US computer networks.
The Obama administration is debating whether to issue financial sanctions and potentially criminal indictments against Chinese people and businesses engaged in hacking of American companies. It’s a sign of escalating tensions between the US and China over cyber spying.
Indictments on their own would be largely symbolic because the accused would almost certainly never see the inside of an American courtroom. But pairing them with economic sanctions would constitute the administration’s strongest public response to a years' long campaign of Chinese cyber espionage that has stolen billions of dollars in trade secrets and intellectual property from companies in practically every sector of the American economy.
Intelligence and law enforcement officials are generally seen as favoring aggressive action both to punish and deter Chinese cyber espionage. White House and State Department officials, however, are more cautious about taking those bold steps, particularly since China’s president Xi Jingping is making a state visit to Washington later this week. The White House has already shied away from publicly blaming China for a major hack against the Office of Personnel Management, even though intelligence agencies have concluded China was to blame.
The Obama administration is debating whether to issue financial sanctions and potentially criminal indictments against Chinese people and businesses engaged in hacking of American companies. It’s a sign of escalating tensions between the US and China over cyber spying.
Indictments on their own would be largely symbolic because the accused would almost certainly never see the inside of an American courtroom. But pairing them with economic sanctions would constitute the administration’s strongest public response to a years' long campaign of Chinese cyber espionage that has stolen billions of dollars in trade secrets and intellectual property from companies in practically every sector of the American economy.
Intelligence and law enforcement officials are generally seen as favoring aggressive action both to punish and deter Chinese cyber espionage. White House and State Department officials, however, are more cautious about taking those bold steps, particularly since China’s president Xi Jingping is making a state visit to Washington later this week. The White House has already shied away from publicly blaming China for a major hack against the Office of Personnel Management, even though intelligence agencies have concluded China was to blame.
5
I hope the large Tibetan Community and Free Tibet supporters disrupt this kiss chinese butt for money visit. Even Tech companies are now pathetic. Disgraceful.
4
So long as China continues to provide goods and services affordable to middle class Americans, I welcome China's effort to engage with America. The problem with America is not outside invaders or exporters to us. It is the insiders including our own government who transfer wealth from poor and middle class Americans to the rich 1%. It is the inequality, lack of opportunities and mobility that hurt us. Don't blame others before we figure out how to restore the equality, opportunity, and mobility for all of us.
1
Looks like Obama administration is promoting free
trade on one hand and also ready to engage in trade
wars with China. Hacking is a red herring. USA
also hacks Chinese military, government and companies.
Sanctions don't work. Obama resumed diplomatic
relations with Cuba after more than 50 years of
boycott, sanctions and proxy invasion. Nothing changed
Cuban policy. Ultimately Obama had to admit failure.
Doing the same thing again and again and expecting
different results is insanity. Obama should try to
resolve the problem diplomatically-the route he took
with Iran.
trade on one hand and also ready to engage in trade
wars with China. Hacking is a red herring. USA
also hacks Chinese military, government and companies.
Sanctions don't work. Obama resumed diplomatic
relations with Cuba after more than 50 years of
boycott, sanctions and proxy invasion. Nothing changed
Cuban policy. Ultimately Obama had to admit failure.
Doing the same thing again and again and expecting
different results is insanity. Obama should try to
resolve the problem diplomatically-the route he took
with Iran.
Certainly Xi Jinping's visit should be the main focus this month. Although last time he was here (Southern California) and brought his wife along Ms. Obama skipped the invitation to come along with her husband. Struck me as an insult. Also last year the Chinese leader and his wife jointly travelled to Europe while Obama had to come all by himself - then to add insult to injury at the same time Ms. Obama felt the urgent need to be in China. All-in-all not that difficult obviously for China to flex its muscles; they understand what loyalty is all about.
Strikes me as an insult that my President even meets with a foriegn leader that is not elected by the people of his country.
1
Tony comments, "The selling of America continues. This is where true patriotism is needed - but will be flummoxed for the gain of the 1%."
The problem is not so much the 1% as it is most of the 99%, which would happily follow Apple, Facebook, and the rest of the tech corporations into the jaws of hell, enamored as they are with all their gadgetry and wares.
If there were now a repeat of the Tianamen Square confrontation of 1989, I have no doubt that Americans, especially the younger half, would contentedly sit on the sidelines watching the massacre on Chinese made tablets and phones, registering their displeasure in impassioned terms on Chinese gadgetry, refusing to give up purchasing products from companies that sell out American security and human rights interests, as well as the human rights interests of the Chinese 99%.
Yes, the American tech 1% mostly look at China as a source of cash. However, it is the 99% who bear some responsibility as enablers.
The problem is not so much the 1% as it is most of the 99%, which would happily follow Apple, Facebook, and the rest of the tech corporations into the jaws of hell, enamored as they are with all their gadgetry and wares.
If there were now a repeat of the Tianamen Square confrontation of 1989, I have no doubt that Americans, especially the younger half, would contentedly sit on the sidelines watching the massacre on Chinese made tablets and phones, registering their displeasure in impassioned terms on Chinese gadgetry, refusing to give up purchasing products from companies that sell out American security and human rights interests, as well as the human rights interests of the Chinese 99%.
Yes, the American tech 1% mostly look at China as a source of cash. However, it is the 99% who bear some responsibility as enablers.
7
I always thought the day will come when China lord over America through their proxies of US corporations, billionaires and SuperPac, I just didn't expect that day come so soon.
3
The American flag sways in the wind, tall and proud, over the buildings of American tech firms! Colors that do not run, nor get treaded on by other nations, because we are a respected country -
China Flexes Tech Muscles Before a State Visit By Stealing Even More American Technology
2
Technology Forum? More like an AA meeting of victims of Chinese espionage.
3
There is no AA in China; honesty is trumped by Face
Ah yes, Xi is well aware of the famous maxim credited to Carl Marx that Capitalism would utimately hang itself by the rope sold to them by their own greedy capitalists. Such US tech Giants like Apple, H/P, Google all have already proved Marx was right, and that they are just simply panting to sell themselves to the Chinese at the right price (And that they will throw the rope in for free).
1
If only our all-knowing government would give as much attention to the American software houses who write the security hole laden software, and the cheapskate American management who refuse to invest adequately in security as they do to the (sometimes Chinese) hackers who drive their buses through the gaping maw we have provided them. Some of those very folks will be partying with the Chinese at this meeting.
2
I doubt this will be a sharing of brain trust, but the American companies should not cozy up to China. China steals technology on a constant basis. As a business person, you cannot even afford to take your lap top or even a thumb drive through customs in China. They steal everything.
Hopefully the American companies know this and will not share, but I do believe, for some reason, that they will allow trade offs for entry. While there are billions in China, there are already billions outside of China for these US tech companies to profit from. Don't bow to China! Never trust China!!!
Hopefully the American companies know this and will not share, but I do believe, for some reason, that they will allow trade offs for entry. While there are billions in China, there are already billions outside of China for these US tech companies to profit from. Don't bow to China! Never trust China!!!
1
China is an Orwellian Nightmare. But the US seems set to follow at least part of the way! The average Joe is fodder for Wall Street and Silicon Valley but combine that with the Chinese government - and things will get truly scary.
US Tech companies spy on us all. China doesnt need to hack them. The one party crony kleptocrats there can just strike a deal with Facebook and in exchange for unfettered spying on Chinese people , in other word access to Chinese markets, grant their government access to all the facebook fooled.
Next? That would not be keeping us safe, it wouldnt be our privacy in exchange for photosharing, it would be our private data to be mined for political ideas that dont gel with the ruling CCP - so in true Orwellian style the outspoken could be disappeared along with that businessman who was a scapegoat for the stock market crash.
One way to avoid this is to open five fake facebook accounts. Then get a thousand fake friends in different continents - all speaking different languages.
US Tech companies spy on us all. China doesnt need to hack them. The one party crony kleptocrats there can just strike a deal with Facebook and in exchange for unfettered spying on Chinese people , in other word access to Chinese markets, grant their government access to all the facebook fooled.
Next? That would not be keeping us safe, it wouldnt be our privacy in exchange for photosharing, it would be our private data to be mined for political ideas that dont gel with the ruling CCP - so in true Orwellian style the outspoken could be disappeared along with that businessman who was a scapegoat for the stock market crash.
One way to avoid this is to open five fake facebook accounts. Then get a thousand fake friends in different continents - all speaking different languages.
3
First mistake, is your illusion that you are not living in ORWELLIAN STATE, If any country in the world have stronger machinery to persuade masses that 3 fingers which they show to you is actually 4 fingers , That Black is White , and White is Black....that will be great state of US of A , You never comprehend(that now become obvious) level of illusions which is served to average US citizens like ULTIMATE TRUTH,, my point is that China have they rulles, which they impose over they citizens, where those one which do not like it those rules can leaved China and become citizen of some other countries, To average Chinese most hard for endur is (i think that is still valid) so called laws "of one child" many westerners even because those law was judging China like another proof of "dictatorial and repressive" Country, But China wasn't bring that law on late 60'ths for fun, First they will have in those years deadly serious problem whit hunger,but much more important is that present world probably already will have those magic number of 7 billion human beans, And actually world need to be thankful to Chinese government for those law, But average US mind actually have not notion how look like mind which is able to represed his deepest desire, Vice Verse Average US mind teached to indulge to every wishes matter not how small or big they are, there is born GREED of westerners but also seed of they DOOM
It seems to me the True inent of this "tech" meeting isn't about the tech industry but rather to gain direct and immediate access to the heads of some of America's richest corporations; to 'reinforce' China's role in the cheap manufacturing of the hardware of technology.
What told it all to me( and should everyone else including our government) is that UBER is invited. Folks UBER isn't a 'tech' business. It is a company the uses fairly mundane techology for a new purpose. The tech industry creates new technology for multi use.
What told it all to me( and should everyone else including our government) is that UBER is invited. Folks UBER isn't a 'tech' business. It is a company the uses fairly mundane techology for a new purpose. The tech industry creates new technology for multi use.
1
"...top American tech companies including Apple, Facebook, IBM, Google and Uber, have been invited..."
Just inviting the ones whose technology was the best the Chinese could steal.
Just inviting the ones whose technology was the best the Chinese could steal.
4
China does whatever China wants to do--see Tibet, Human Rights Violations, Cyber Attacks, Religious Persecution, Trials without juries, ethnic cleansing, massive forced settlements, languages forced upon native peoples etc. etc.
6
China knew they could never destroy the United States militarily, but they learned by Reagan's defeat of the Soviet Union, they could destroy us economically. It has not been too difficult to do when liberals keep racking up an unsustainable $18 trillion debt and putting sanctions against American companies by saddling them with the largest corporate tax in the world. Add to that the millions of tiny laws that are designed to increase the risk of success for entrepreneurs, and China will soon insist that they become the international reserve currency. When that happens, it's game over for the U.S. We will become just another third world country like Mexico.
1
Why doesn't the USA ever "flex muscles"? It seems like our leaders are chronically apologizing and bowing to others. I'm ready for a national leader who will fight for the USA.
5
American companies trying to tap into the Chinese market make a deal with the devil. The Chinese will make them partner with a Chinese company, and siphon of any trade secrets the company has, then copy what they make. The Chinese will buy the domestically produced knock off, so where did the American company come out ? Suckers! The American companies are too stupid and short-term growth obsessed to see the noses on their faces.
7
Like one statement said that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change any anything. These corporations will go after potentail profits and realize it's a phyrric mirage at their cost.
Sadly they will never learn even after one too many egregious examples of corporations being short changed by the Chinese.
Sadly they will never learn even after one too many egregious examples of corporations being short changed by the Chinese.
3
The fact that tough action on organized, state or company-backed cyber attacks is not caused as much by business lobbying as many often imply, but more about the fact that the US has very little moral authority to be upset. The reality is that already for decades US government and agencies have been doing on a global scale what it currently alleges Chinese and Russian groups are doing. The fact that the US does so (or would claim to do so) under a homeland security (or similar) umbrella is not even relevant.
4
Hopefully, the United States will not sell its freedoms downstream to a glittering, gargantuan, totalitarian state. This nation needs to keep its freedoms intact while continuing to innovate its markets and technology. There should be no compromise in American democracy. We should not give up the middle class in order to acquiesce and 'advance' in certain foreign markets. We can compete anywhere if we continue to think we can.
4
steve jobs, were he still alive, would have sent the chinese his regrets that he had other commitments.
1
Oh really????? Guess again. He was the driver to outsource to China. I will never buy an Apple product.
In 1959, just before visiting the United States, Nikita Khrushchev, head of the Soviet Union, flexed his rocket muscles. But, the United States still got men on the moon first. And the Soviet Union ended up in the dustbin of history. Khrushchev's son now lives in the United States. China ought to figure out how to maintain a stable currency (the yuan).
2
Is that right? Guess which country said that the yuan is under valued?
Oh really? Guess which country insisted that the yuan was under valued and demand that China should adjust it? That , I believe, was less than three years ago.
It's true that China is a highly lucrative market with its "more than 600 million Internet users and the hundreds of billions of dollars its companies, government and consumers spend on technology". But the Chinese government doesn't want foreigners to benefit from these revenues. It is opting for autarky, helping its own firms to dominate the domestic market. If they are not innovative enough, they "borrow" ideas from elsewhere.
5
China does't spend a lot of time dealing with the US government on trade and other issues. It sends its American companies that depend on it for trade to do its bidding. The biggest problem for Americans hurt by Chinese misbehavior isn't China per se, i's the American companies who produce goods and services there or hope to sell them to the Chinese. It's a fool's errand of course, because the Chinese will never allow an American company to become a dominant player in China. The Americans will be forced to partner with Chinese companies, provdie technology transfer to the partner and eventually will be ousted from the Chinese market. By the time they realize they've been had, it will be too late.
5
I think the Democratic Candidates might possibly consider only offering Free Trade to countries that have an established Minimum Wage, and a required wage of a certain percentage of our own Minimum (so that certain other countries could not take advantage of the requirement)., That way, the other sizes of businesses in our own nation would have a better chance to compete with, otherwise, financially-advantaged large corporations in our economy.
The U.S. could consider exempting a few of the poorest countries, and only allow free trade up until the point where their country reaches a certain percentage of increased GDP level, where we help build their economy up, then encourage our corporations to bring our business and jobs back home.
This would help the world economy as well as our own by encouraging a Minimum Wage around the world, and enticing businesses in other countries that can pay their employees more to do so.
The U.S. could consider exempting a few of the poorest countries, and only allow free trade up until the point where their country reaches a certain percentage of increased GDP level, where we help build their economy up, then encourage our corporations to bring our business and jobs back home.
This would help the world economy as well as our own by encouraging a Minimum Wage around the world, and enticing businesses in other countries that can pay their employees more to do so.
1
When considering how we wish the internet to function going forward, we might want to remember the Golden Rule - Them with the gold makes the rules. Over the long term, every single tech company, regardless of ostensible nationality, will accommodate to the Chinese model in order to increase profitability. And, as that process progresses, we are likely to see the Chinese seek to control what is being said and done outside its borders, in which it will eventually have the assistance, grudging or otherwise of American tech giants.
Which means that perhaps the best way to preserve our own freedoms is to give the Chinese what they want and allow themselves and other like minded nations to wall themselves off, the corollary being that we can similarly insulate ourselves from them. We could continue to run our portion along with other free nations in much the same way we do now without having to worry about China exerting its growing economic and technological muscle to induce our own companies to enforce its policies.
In the past, the US has used its economic muscle to bring unprecedented degrees of free expression and inquiry to the world stage. As our power declines and that of China increases, it will be better able to enforce acceptance of its favored norms. So the only way to protect our freedoms and democratic norms is to insulate ourselves from that contagion. Because otherwise we will eventually find Chinese censorship being enforced by our own companies.
Which means that perhaps the best way to preserve our own freedoms is to give the Chinese what they want and allow themselves and other like minded nations to wall themselves off, the corollary being that we can similarly insulate ourselves from them. We could continue to run our portion along with other free nations in much the same way we do now without having to worry about China exerting its growing economic and technological muscle to induce our own companies to enforce its policies.
In the past, the US has used its economic muscle to bring unprecedented degrees of free expression and inquiry to the world stage. As our power declines and that of China increases, it will be better able to enforce acceptance of its favored norms. So the only way to protect our freedoms and democratic norms is to insulate ourselves from that contagion. Because otherwise we will eventually find Chinese censorship being enforced by our own companies.
5
Absent new technological breakthroughs, who ever controls the Internet will control much of the future of world communication. It should be no surprise that China is positioning itself to have much greater control of the Internet. The current way the US is approaching the Internet is not likely to have much impact on China's plans. It should also come as no surprise that US companies do not want to be frozen out which is why they will cozy up to China whenever they can.
8
Stubbs:
The world's first merchant marine armada was launched in 1423 by Cheng Ho in Ming Dynasty, several decades ahead of the European explorers. His ships started southward to South China Sea, then sailed through the Indian Ocean westward to reach Somalia. As for China's past achievements, I recommend "Science and Civilisation in China" by Joseph Needham
The world's first merchant marine armada was launched in 1423 by Cheng Ho in Ming Dynasty, several decades ahead of the European explorers. His ships started southward to South China Sea, then sailed through the Indian Ocean westward to reach Somalia. As for China's past achievements, I recommend "Science and Civilisation in China" by Joseph Needham
6
Very true, China has a history of great innovation…but let's give the credit to the Vikings AD 793> who sailed further sooner then any people in history. Their influence was enormous.
As you read this article about Mr. Xi's planned visit, consider reading Michael Pillsbury's book "The One Hundred Year Marathon" - a very interesting (and largely frightening) perspective on the entire China-US dynamic.
2
Our Frankenstein Monster that we helped to create has now forged ahead of us & is demonstrating the leverage they have over us.If anything China can out sanction us,.Too much of what is left of American industry is dependent upon China to survive, it is time to recognize we have lost the Technical Cold War, & we have become beholden to China.They have out foxed us at every turn, our consumers are dependent upon them, as is our Industry, & we only have ourselves to blame.To my knowledge American Companies that relocate overseas are given a 10% tax Credit by our Government.That is a glaring example why the Middle Class has declined, & urban Industry has disappeared.from our Cities.We live & die by Greed, & we are dying.
14
It's all due to China being able to do things with a view to the long term, unlike American companies that are unable to look past next quarter's bottom line. Gotta keep those analysts happy!
1
Why exactly are we hosting President Xi for a state visit anyways? Nothing will be accomplished but China looking as if they can spit in our eye with no consequences. Xi go home!
3
This article highlights the stark contrast between the cooperative approach taken by China on so many trade issues, and the aggressive domineering and punitive approach taken by the US. If anyone believes all the anti-Chinese propaganda spewed by the US government, they probably also believe in Santa Claus.
1
China's success over the past thirty years is built almost entirely on stealing good ideas from their inventors and providing nothing in return for them. It's time to hit back where it hurts: in the pocketbook. They're already reeling from their recent stockmarket dump. Next up, I propose a three point plan. First, increase the tariff on all Chinese manufactured goods to the US from 6% to 26%, at 5% per annum, until China agrees for formal and regular inspections by a third party of their PLA units for evidence of computer hacking. Second, an additional tariff on all Western media (music, movies, etc.) based on a reasonable third-party estimate of all illegal media sales inside and coming through China, to offset industrial stealing of US intellectual property. Third, a 6-month freeze of all Chinese investments in the United States, to be extended based on Congress's say-so, which can be lifted when China formally agrees to inspections of PLA hacking sites as in proposal one. Those are measured and sensible responses to a list of illegal IP thefts that have gone on for decades, and not one bullet needs to be fired.
8
I represent a Belgian company that builds and sells very technical packaging systems to large companies in Europe and the Americas. At a recent Packaging Expo Conference packaging machine manufacturer's from around the world had their packaging systems on display. Chinese packaging companies had over 30 identical booths and my companies CEO told me that every one of these Chinese made machines were knock offs of US and European packaging machines.
A Chinese supported company has been trying for over 3 years to made a knock off of our machine which provides packaging systems for large hospitals in the Americas and Europe. They have sold one machine in the US and never got it to work and have yet to provide a working example of their machine at a international hospital pharmacy meeting.
Representatives of Chinese companies have tried to visit our booths at these pharmacy meetings and get information - I always yell, "MAYO" at them and other not nice things if they don't leave immediately.
China has a full court press to get our technology. In the US Navy I was a nuclear weapons officer and can still remember when Wen Ho Lee stole our technology to MIRV their nuclear missiles to increase the lethality of their missiles. Due to the bungled efforts of the FBI/CIA, Wen Ho Lee was never prosecuted.
A Chinese supported company has been trying for over 3 years to made a knock off of our machine which provides packaging systems for large hospitals in the Americas and Europe. They have sold one machine in the US and never got it to work and have yet to provide a working example of their machine at a international hospital pharmacy meeting.
Representatives of Chinese companies have tried to visit our booths at these pharmacy meetings and get information - I always yell, "MAYO" at them and other not nice things if they don't leave immediately.
China has a full court press to get our technology. In the US Navy I was a nuclear weapons officer and can still remember when Wen Ho Lee stole our technology to MIRV their nuclear missiles to increase the lethality of their missiles. Due to the bungled efforts of the FBI/CIA, Wen Ho Lee was never prosecuted.
9
Maybe Wen Ho Lee was not guilty as charged.
Meanwhile, look at what Elon Musk is doing from scratch with Tesla in Nevada. Stop being a cry baby and invent something China and the world wants, like a better burger, coke or screw drivers that don't wear out.
Meanwhile, look at what Elon Musk is doing from scratch with Tesla in Nevada. Stop being a cry baby and invent something China and the world wants, like a better burger, coke or screw drivers that don't wear out.
1
This ploy by Silicon Valley and Seattle tech firms is an attempt to throw a monkey wrench in the Obama administration's tough-love diplomacy towards China. This article brackets yesterday's Times article which was a PR attempt by the Justice Department to speed up the pace of negotiations with tech firms about access to the tech firms confidential consumer data. There must be more real friction beneath the surface between the Obama administration and the U.S. tech giants than I was aware of. This is like a non-Washington, DC lobbying maneuver, an end-run around the DC power game strategies.
Our tech firms should be careful with China. It may have huge, mostly untapped markets for some of our firms, but China always make certain it holds all the cards in any business deal. When you ride on a dragon, figuring out how to control it shouldn't be an afterthought.
5
For more than 30 years that carrot has been dangled to get US companies into China where they steal our lunch and regulate to death. All illusory.
2
You want to make profits in China then you better play by our rules. Instead of hating on China maybe it's better to know a bit about it before you "vomit" or judge.
4
We know all we need to know. Corrupt, oppressive, dishonest, criminal. Which defines characteristics of most governments. But in this, China is far and above the leader. China has taken it to a level that threatens world order.
1
TAKE NOTICE USA - The above comment is from China. This is exactly how they feel about the USA and if the USA, for matters of corporate greed continues to invest in this country... you will need to live with the resulting circumstances for the rest of your life. USA Government - Shame on you for your tax benefits for corporate outsourcing jobs and technology to this totalitarian government.
And yet Chinese companies, or to state it accurately, the Chinese government, hav been sued more times that any companies from any other nation for intellectual property rights violations.
This extends not just to private companies but to all aspects of an economy, including the military.
A perfect example of this is Huawei: Cisco sued Huawei when it was found that Huawei routers had been crashing and the functions found in the crash had all been Cisco functions, so Huawei had essentially stolen Cisco source code and used it to produce their own routers.
This has happened repeatedly in other court cases.
You would think that with a country of billions of people that the Chinese would not need to steal their way to technical prowess.
This extends not just to private companies but to all aspects of an economy, including the military.
A perfect example of this is Huawei: Cisco sued Huawei when it was found that Huawei routers had been crashing and the functions found in the crash had all been Cisco functions, so Huawei had essentially stolen Cisco source code and used it to produce their own routers.
This has happened repeatedly in other court cases.
You would think that with a country of billions of people that the Chinese would not need to steal their way to technical prowess.
5
Most Westerners who have worked in China are aware that blackmail is a common and accepted business practice but this is the first time I've heard of the Chinese taking the practice to the US shores.
9
At last,Chinese technology prowees are getting noticed. This is a nation which has become a space power,and has developed anti-aircraft carrier missiles. Its economy is facing downhill,so better showcase your technology skills. The days of James Bond are over. Hackers are the modern-day James Bonds. Hacking should not come in the way of global trade. Sanctions have been invented by India,from times immemorial. Remember,viilage communities imposing sanctions on dissident residents of a village. Chinese seem to be good at marketing - hack another nation's computers and get noticed.
Dear U.S. Tech companies- China is not your friend. Sure you want your sales and your almighty stock values to rise to benefit whom? China will use and steal your technology to benefit Mother China and you'll be the enabler with blood on your hands.
13
It's all about money. It always has been and it always will be. Capitalism. Suck the suckers dry. Conditions of anonymity. Sure. "...On the other hand, a raft of Chinese policies have emerged in the last two years that are meant to wean the country off foreign technology, and Internet blocks have kept out companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter..."
2
The Chinese have become nothing more than faux capitalists with an enslaved middle and lower class. It would be great if the American executives were a no show and instead sent a note asking President Xi Jinping to turn off The Great Firewall. China can't be trusted.
15
'The Chinese have become nothing more than faux capitalists with an enslaved middle and lower class' as opposed to the US which is nothing less than vulture capitalism with an enslaved middle and lower class. It's the US that can't be trusted with the NSA having free reign to do whatever they want in secret and take full advantage of it - China is at least transparent to what it allows and doesn't allow.
Don't we have more middle and lower Middle class in the US? On the other hand, we have just a few rich American executives. Speaking of enslaved capitalists, aren't you speaking about us Americans?
Another example of business turning its back on people. Money talks, people walk.
2
Will China retaliate with sanctions for NSA spying?
3
Bush is asking for campaign donations from Chinese!
U know he will have r best interest in mind if he becomes the POTUS. Yea right.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/89fd74d8-563e-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html...
U know he will have r best interest in mind if he becomes the POTUS. Yea right.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/89fd74d8-563e-11e5-a28b-50226830d644.html...
1
China is trying to snatch away tech and high-tech from the US.
They are using "access to their market" as the bait.
They are using "access to their market" as the bait.
6
The possibility of more cooperation with China is a carrot dangled at the end of a long stick, hacking and theft of trade secrets. The Chinese will never need to cooperate with American tech companies once they steal our patents and designs. The play here is not to contest anything at the tech level. This is a trade war that must be pursued on those terms. As a start the U.S. Should symbolically turn back one cargo ship destined for San Diego or Seattle.
2
The problem is that the production of the majority of American companies based in China, so, for example, the iPhone is assembling in China, so America will not be able to do much with China by sanctions or somehow else, the two countries have become dependent on each other.
3
American companies should start moving all manufacturing to Viet Nam or India, so we AREN'T dependent on China.
6
The total US debt is 18 trillion dollars. 1.272 trillion is debt owed to China.
Whoever you are in debt to has power over you.
Whoever you are in debt to has power over you.
6
"Whoever you are in debt to has power over you."
NOT so. If you owe the bank a million dollars the bank owns you but if you owe the bank a billion dollars you own the bank.
NOT so. If you owe the bank a million dollars the bank owns you but if you owe the bank a billion dollars you own the bank.
1
well not really….in this case the debt holder has every reason to want the debtor to succeed…..in this case a loose would be a loose-loose for both parties and I suspect China would suffer more then the USA economically and in terms of social unrest.
Mr. Netanyahu and now Mr. Xi believe that the benefits of dissing the US President during a state visit can outweigh the costs. It will be interesting to see if there are similar reactions by US politicians and other stakeholders to the two situations.
5
Now there's a good idea: a government procurement ban on Microsoft Windows. It's all very fine to cast that as Anti-American, but maybe the Chinese government is just listening to its hackers.
2
I like to think I'm an educated fair-thinking human and understand there are complexities about trade that are difficult to reconcile.
But I despair that U.S. companies (global economy, I know) would give away the one thing that Chinese tech lacks, innovation, for the monetary access to their millions of users.
Especially given the lack of access that their populace has to the true "open internet" that the rest of the world enjoys. The Chinese gov't suppresses access - using the systems and companies slated to entertain this delegation!
Innovation in the U.S. by all of its people, immigrants included and in many cases especially, is our foremost asset.
Let's not sell it so cheaply.
But I despair that U.S. companies (global economy, I know) would give away the one thing that Chinese tech lacks, innovation, for the monetary access to their millions of users.
Especially given the lack of access that their populace has to the true "open internet" that the rest of the world enjoys. The Chinese gov't suppresses access - using the systems and companies slated to entertain this delegation!
Innovation in the U.S. by all of its people, immigrants included and in many cases especially, is our foremost asset.
Let's not sell it so cheaply.
3
I don't know what most readers think of the president to China calling for a summit on technology within the U.S. prior to, or during his visit, but to me it smacks of disrespect towards the elected President of the United States, whom we elected to represent our collective foreign interest. And in essence, disrespecting us as citizens. It would be impossible for any elected official from the United States to call for a summit in China without first getting permission from the Chinese government. I'm sure that President Obama is smart enough to deal with the Mr. Xi, I suppose it's up to the American people to deal with those American companies whose knees turn to butter every time they see an opportunity to make a dollar or a renminbi. China has repeatedly flaunted its desire to displace the U.S. as the worlds largest economy, why would the American people support companies that want to help them accomplish that goal? Do those American companies really believe that China will care about them once they have the technology they are desperate to acquire? Don't they know a divide and conquer maneuver when they see it? I find Mr. Xi's gambit highly offensive.
8
No, the American companies are suckers, and slaves to projecting higher and higher next quarter growth numbers for Wall Street.
1
" to me it smacks of disrespect towards the elected President of the United States"
Yes, of course. Obama started his presidency with a World Apology Tour and then proceeded to consistently take the position of giving other countries advantage over the USA. Of course he gets no respect.
I'm ready for a president who will fight tooth and nail to benefit the USA. No more apologies; no more bowing; no more give-aways.
Yes, of course. Obama started his presidency with a World Apology Tour and then proceeded to consistently take the position of giving other countries advantage over the USA. Of course he gets no respect.
I'm ready for a president who will fight tooth and nail to benefit the USA. No more apologies; no more bowing; no more give-aways.
2
P.R.China is now tied up with Russia to create the downfall of the US power in the World, bot militarily and economically, both are doing brisk trade building economic cities along their common border, exchanging trade and technology at a rate never seen before, the US need to create a block with Europe and the other non Russia/China aligned relevant countries to ensure a survival
Obama does not have a China policy since his first day in the White House. He does not have any experienced China experts in his office and in the State Departments. He has too many Japan and Korea experts in his foreign policy and international team. He really create a mess for our foreign policy in Asia and Middle East. I hope our next president will have a better and stronger knowledge about foreign policy and international security. Xi's trip to US should be cancelled!
China has rendered US intellectual property law null and void, deleted Article I, section 8 from the Constitution, and taught other countries the profit in emulating China
6
Readers who denigrate China's tech really miss the recent development that more and more Chinese execs were U.S. trained. In fact, some are Americans. So tech is not the issue. Rather, it is the overarching purpose of applying tech to humanity.
Even that, the U.S.'d better not claim moral highland without looking into the mirror first. Just yesterday, the top execs of United Airline resigned after the fallout of the N.J. Bridgegate.
But in general, there are more dedicated individuals in positions to allow tech to flourish in the right way, even while there are plenty of narcissists in Silicon Valley. At this stage of development, China state narcissists are choking altruism and innovation out of the creative class.
But both the U.S. and China, and the rest of the world for that matter, need to inject humanity, including freedom, liberty and empathy, into tech and everything else
Even that, the U.S.'d better not claim moral highland without looking into the mirror first. Just yesterday, the top execs of United Airline resigned after the fallout of the N.J. Bridgegate.
But in general, there are more dedicated individuals in positions to allow tech to flourish in the right way, even while there are plenty of narcissists in Silicon Valley. At this stage of development, China state narcissists are choking altruism and innovation out of the creative class.
But both the U.S. and China, and the rest of the world for that matter, need to inject humanity, including freedom, liberty and empathy, into tech and everything else
3
Sounds nice, but a little too idealistic for the 21st Century
And tech here and there will not do anything of the sort. It's a runaway train, and money is far too tempting. We (pur young in particular) are now owned by our stuff, and they are only going to do things to keep the addiction stronger, they have to. It's' now like the cigarette industry in a way, they know how much money they can make, here and abroad. Uber? You have to be kidding.
Obama's threat of sanctions, in addition to destabilizing if not also jeopardizing relations between US tech companies and China, is the knee-jerk reaction to whatever USG disapproves, particularly shortsighted here because bringing Russia and China together on the same ground of a common complaint against economic coercion. The administration, jealous of Chinese technological prowess and, yes, capitalistic success, strikes out blindly at the perceived challenge. Fortunately, Tim Cook and Bill Gates are not so irrationally inclined and, hopefully, will facilitate President Xi's visit rather than forced cancellation due to US fear and sour grapes.
As for competing global Internet paradigms, the alleged open-ness of the US one is given the lie by the Snowden revelations. Pure chutzpah to claim civil liberties when this nation engages in mass surveillance. Yesterday's NYT made clear that the US tech companies are taking a principles stand against USG concerning the divulgence of customers' identities.
As for competing global Internet paradigms, the alleged open-ness of the US one is given the lie by the Snowden revelations. Pure chutzpah to claim civil liberties when this nation engages in mass surveillance. Yesterday's NYT made clear that the US tech companies are taking a principles stand against USG concerning the divulgence of customers' identities.
3
There are no sanctions. There is the "threat of sanctions". That's the way it works, geopolitics-wise. Hence, no "knee-jerk reactions". In fact, no reactions at all. Just the usual mundane stuff that goes on up there in the political sphere.
A blind eye is not the answer to massive industrial espionage and revelations by Snowden have no bearing on the problem. China must address the problem. If it refuses to and the evidence is clear and undeniable then the government must act.
This Summit presents a major opportunity for the two countries to take major positive steps in areas that have not received attention for whatever reason. One key are is collaboration in space. The Wolf Amendment to NASA budget appropriations prevents the US and China from collaborating in the peaceful uses of outer space. Even at the height of the Cold War the US collaborated with the Soviet Union in space. But, China has been excluded from ISS and even decades earlier China was the only major country not to participate in the International Geophysical Year reportedly due to US meddling. The Wolf Amendment is a misguided effort to deal with the issue of intellectual property theft is counter to US interests. But, it also speaks to the importance of intellectual property protection. China and the US could choose to resolve this issue by taking measures to protect IPR and through a bold initiative in space such as recommended by the International Lunar Decade Working Group. Starting in 2017 the ILD provides a framework for international collaboration including successors to ISS, bases on the Moon, etc. See - http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2812/1
This Summit presents a major opportunity for the two countries to take major positive steps in areas that have not received attention for whatever reason. One key are is collaboration in space. The Wolf Amendment to NASA budget appropriations prevents the US and China from collaborating in the peaceful uses of outer space. Even at the height of the Cold War the US collaborated with the Soviet Union in space. But, China has been excluded from ISS and even decades earlier China was the only major country not to participate in the International Geophysical Year reportedly due to US meddling. The Wolf Amendment is a misguided effort to deal with the issue of intellectual property theft is counter to US interests. But, it also speaks to the importance of intellectual property protection. China and the US could choose to resolve this issue by taking measures to protect IPR and through a bold initiative in space such as recommended by the International Lunar Decade Working Group. Starting in 2017 the ILD provides a framework for international collaboration including successors to ISS, bases on the Moon, etc. See - http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2812/1
1
A rare display of the innovative Chinese ways of combining hacking with open dialogue with the US tech companies.
12
This just personifies how American big tech biz's money trumps loyalty to America, in the name of capitalism. They are just pigs at the trough. Next time their technology is hacked and stolen, and/or they are cut out of the Chinese market, they shouldn't come crying to our government for aid, sanctions and other help. Maybe in anticipation thereof, the rest of us should invest in Chinese tech businesses, and dump our equities in our tech companies.
23
Investing in Chinese tech business will be cutting our noses in spite, faces. They have stolen our technology, they killed our manufacturing and they are invading us. we are supporting and abating a communist country that figured out how to destroy us with our own weapons and intellectual property.
Well put ;-).
The selling of America continues. This is where true patriotism is needed - but will be flummoxed for the gain of the 1%. China should be engaged but not at all trusted. For all of our post 9/11 crackdowns, we still have some basic liberties 99% of the Chinese people have never had. Not to be corny, but we are still the land of the free. I am GLAD I don't own any MS or Apple stock and would sell it if I did. They are a dusgrace.
35
Marx was right about capitalism.
I wonder what Steve Jobs would say about what has taken place in his company since he passed…it's no longer the Apple we loved now it's just a big tech company……when they lost Steve they lost more then just his person at the head of the table, they lost their creative soul.
I see it as an undeniable and undisputed trend that things are going for the better between the U.S. and China - We were fighting China in N. Korea in the 50' and were at the brink to use A-bomb then, and now they produce a lot of things for us and lend huge sum of money to us. Our relationship with China is "complicated", as those politicians say sometime. They are elected not to blame or shrink from responsibilities but to solve problems between the two countries.
15
Europe's relationship with Germany was "complicated" too, in the 1930s, before it became simple. If you think it's getting better for America, you've missed the news of the last two decades.
1
This narrative out there that China is a threat is a bit ridiculous. A country that forbids free political discourse has never succeeded economically for any length of time that I know of.
Any economists blogging with counter examples?
Any economists blogging with counter examples?
11
They are a huge threat considering the huge amount of intellectual property that the Chinese have stolen from our country.
If you don't consider that a threat, what do you consider a threat?
If you don't consider that a threat, what do you consider a threat?
1
When I came up with a computerized econometric modeling solution in Wyoming (published as a paper by the University of Amsterdam's Center for non-linear dynamics in economics and finance) I tried to give it to American national labs- even direct to Dick Cheney who acknowledged it but did nothing. Two Chinese universities and the Ministry of Commerce downloaded the paper for most of a year. I anticipate them- not America- having the tools for global econometric forecasting (to prevent war, environmental chaos, etc). Too bad it's a nation that is inherently run by a corrupt central communist party elite and their regional/local cronies.
3
Would you please mind providing a link to the paper that you authored.
American firms want the US administration to be tough on China but they themselves will not be a party to this tough response. Wrap your head around that!
20
There is no greater threat to tech security than the United States and the NSA. From Reagan to Obama the only leadership the United States provides is in hypocrisy.
6
Bad form... China's leaders are deluded if they think they can stop the flow of information, instead of learning how to deal with it. If Google gives in to them, millions of people around the world will stop using Google. Same for Apple and the other salivating corporations.
*The size of a market is not enough to subdue the world" - this sentence should be added to the 2015 edition of the Little Red Book.
*The size of a market is not enough to subdue the world" - this sentence should be added to the 2015 edition of the Little Red Book.
7
American tech corporations by and large have no allegiance to America, profits being their only God. Americans, so enamored with their gadgets, would follow these companies into the jaws of hell itself.
24
This is a good time to review Edwin Black's book on IBM's collaborations with the Nazis. It was quite profitable for IBM.
China is the largest fascist country in history. What are we doing in bed with it? Let the trade wars begin.
24
We still can't get cigars from Communist Cuba but we gave Communist China 99% of all of our manufacturing…..pretty crazy, thanks to Richard Nixon and a greedy GOP business community who sold away most of our jobs, including service jobs now not "just" manufacturing jobs…..we sell our best farmland & luxe real estate to Chinese companies as well…..is greed a virus? Are these the walking dead amongst us?
President Xi is opening the China markets to the titans of US technology companies as his gesture of good will before meeting with President Obama.
I personally prepared an economic stimulus program to share US expertise and design for China a large-scale monetary stimulus program to revive China's economy and stabilize China's stock markets.
The US and China are the two nations for whom it is imperative that their economies symbiotically establish sustained growth in their economies. No other combination of nations are capable of double-digit, sustained economic growth. It is up to China and the USA together to save the world economy from further contraction and depression.
[email protected]
I personally prepared an economic stimulus program to share US expertise and design for China a large-scale monetary stimulus program to revive China's economy and stabilize China's stock markets.
The US and China are the two nations for whom it is imperative that their economies symbiotically establish sustained growth in their economies. No other combination of nations are capable of double-digit, sustained economic growth. It is up to China and the USA together to save the world economy from further contraction and depression.
[email protected]
8
What U.S. companies are treated in China is pretty much the same way that Chinese Huawei was treated in U.S. what's good for the goose, good for the gander.
16
Secretary Xi and President Obama are players at the highest level of diplomacy. Their reflections, opinions, and requests have consequences for at least 1.6 billion people. Xi Jinping is a humble man who was sent down to the countryside to work. His rise is due to his self-made ability; and his determination to save the Party’s reputation, as the vanguard of the Chinese people. Barak Obama is an honest man, with the strength to speak for a nation. Xi is from an authoritarian country; Obama is from a democratic country. If the Dalia Lama of Tibet cannot make headway with the CCP, Obama has little chance. I hope Peng Liyuan and Michelle Obama can do something about the stress in the US/China relationship, and set us in a sensible direction. Are the principals of free trade to be admired for world benefit? What fiscal wisdom should economist follow? I hope Xi and Obama can debate these questions, as both of them know economics.
5
Ya, you might want to review your comment. I was in Warner Robins, Georgia from 1970 to 1972. Georgia does not speak or write as you do:)
8
The transfer of wealth away from small American businesses and laborers to China is measured in the trillions of dollars over the past two decades. China now has over 400 billionaires thanks in large measure to the 1% in America who facilitate and participate in this transfer of wealth away from the American working class (I'm talking to you, Walmart, among many others).
At some point in the not distant future China will not be dependent upon U.S. for the innovative technology which has given China its ability to participate modern civilization. What does the U.S get out of this? Cheaper alarm clocks? Is that all - is it really worth it?
At some point in the not distant future China will not be dependent upon U.S. for the innovative technology which has given China its ability to participate modern civilization. What does the U.S get out of this? Cheaper alarm clocks? Is that all - is it really worth it?
72
The cheaper alarm clocks aren't worth it, and they don't work well.
7
If we are not careful the USA will be to be the ones making the cheaper alarm clocks for the Chinese!
6
They are all ringing. Time to wake up.
1
For most of the past 2200 years China has been a socioeconomic political educational scientific technological world superpower. Ruling with the Mandate of Heaven the Middle/Central Kingdom ignored any entangling economic, military, political or colonial alliances with the "barbarians."
In Deng Xiaoping's economically politically reformed China there is a term limited collective leadership trying improve the economic status of it's citizens. China has invested in American business. China makes cheap goods for Americans and buys American debt. While China has the nominal #2 economy by GDP, with 1.3 billion people ranks about 80th -near Bulgaria and Botswana-on a per capita basis. Corruption is a threat to one-party rule. China is aging and shrinking with a massive male gender imbalance. China's air, water and land is polluted.
While America spends three times what China does on it's military. America has economic, political and military alliances. America has 25% of the world prison population with only 5% of it's people. There are more black Americans on welfare, prison and unemployed than ever before. Uncle Sam is spying on Americans without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. Yet in Mandarin the name for America is the "Beautiful Country".
In Deng Xiaoping's economically politically reformed China there is a term limited collective leadership trying improve the economic status of it's citizens. China has invested in American business. China makes cheap goods for Americans and buys American debt. While China has the nominal #2 economy by GDP, with 1.3 billion people ranks about 80th -near Bulgaria and Botswana-on a per capita basis. Corruption is a threat to one-party rule. China is aging and shrinking with a massive male gender imbalance. China's air, water and land is polluted.
While America spends three times what China does on it's military. America has economic, political and military alliances. America has 25% of the world prison population with only 5% of it's people. There are more black Americans on welfare, prison and unemployed than ever before. Uncle Sam is spying on Americans without reasonable suspicion or probable cause. Yet in Mandarin the name for America is the "Beautiful Country".
16
What a load! A world superpower in those fields for over two thousand years? What part did China play in the world exploration by ship? What scientific contributions did it make that rank highest? What technological advances were its product? I guess I just missed all its space exploration. And to think of all that economic development of the last decades, when in fact it was already so healthy!
12
Yes, they make cheap product that is useless, compromised and frustrating to use. They should keep their junk. The only thing that is solid is another useless product, packaging.
2
China has a huge chip on your shoulder dont you?
That is the scary part. It thinks Han are racially superior, and collectively their loyalty is to the tribe but they cant work out why they are not as prosperous as either Western Europe or the US!
Well I have news. The Han are no better or worse than any of us, but your political system is an abomination. The miracle was just the miracle of industrialization but about 200 years later than Europe. The failure of that at the larger scale is because of a totalitarian state with all its inefficiencies. There will be a China Spring sooner rather than later.
That is the scary part. It thinks Han are racially superior, and collectively their loyalty is to the tribe but they cant work out why they are not as prosperous as either Western Europe or the US!
Well I have news. The Han are no better or worse than any of us, but your political system is an abomination. The miracle was just the miracle of industrialization but about 200 years later than Europe. The failure of that at the larger scale is because of a totalitarian state with all its inefficiencies. There will be a China Spring sooner rather than later.
2
Maybe the US should threaten to eliminate student visas for Chinese nationals, in addition to eliminating H-1B visas. They may change their tune when they can't send their kids to be educated at US schools.
60
Why penalize students for an issue they didn't create and over which they have no control. The villains here are the federal government and American tech companies.
85% of the PhD's stay here. China experiences massive brain drain.
1
I'm not sure. They send kids not only to the US but also to European countries, Australia, and Canada. Actually, those countries want to attract more international students (for economical benefits, cultural influence, and future ties with China), so they would appreciate any help from the US. :)
I think a small round of sanctions should be considered before Xi arrives on his planned visit to break up this party. Now China is trying to put a wedge between our gov't and our tech industries. Now is the time to do it. Everything the Chinese do coincides with what our gov't is planning to do. Now is the time to break that pattern. Sanctions.
27
you are right Ron! thank you for taking this stand!!
3
OMG! This article makes me want to vomit. Having worked at Stanford University for almost 14 years & "stewarded" many Chinese donors, including Li Ka sing, the 9th richest man in the world, I believe most Chinese high-tech folks have absolutley no idea about passion/creativity/thinking "outside the box." They come to Silicon Valley having spent years in formal education and looking for "pat, shallow" answers" for "success" and don't have any idea about creativity/imagination/passion, etc.
I own a lot of shares of SWKS, (Skyworks Solutions, which makes hardware for Apple, etc) thus, I want a financially-successful US-China relationship. But letting China call the shots on the rules for technology between the US & another country could not be more stupid. I have seen this stupidity first hand in terms of students at Stanford as well as rich Chinese donors/prospects looking to Silicon Valley to make money.
Perhaps it is time to dump my SWKS stock if China is going to assume such power.
I own a lot of shares of SWKS, (Skyworks Solutions, which makes hardware for Apple, etc) thus, I want a financially-successful US-China relationship. But letting China call the shots on the rules for technology between the US & another country could not be more stupid. I have seen this stupidity first hand in terms of students at Stanford as well as rich Chinese donors/prospects looking to Silicon Valley to make money.
Perhaps it is time to dump my SWKS stock if China is going to assume such power.
52
oops...it should be Li Ka Shing...http://www.forbes.com/profile/li-ka-shing/
...he is a wonderful person w a "heart of gold," both literally & figuratively!
...he is a wonderful person w a "heart of gold," both literally & figuratively!
Anyone missed a major port blew up recently and another town went good-bye.
This all bluster.
This all bluster.
10
Mixed messages are unhelpful. They can't take us seriously, if we aren't serious about the issues that matter to us.
We have to decide, do we want to do business with China or to confront them? And if we do confront them, confront them on what? Tibet? Cyberhacking? Stealing jobs? Currency Manipulation? Human rights? Jailing of activists? Freedom of the press? South China Sea Islands? All of the above?
The only American company which has stood by its principles in China is Google. They walked out of the market in 2010, in a protest of Chinese government surveillance, giving Baidu the monopoly.
But now every tech company seems to want a piece of the China pie. Even Google is supposed to be planning a re-entry into China.
We have to decide, do we want to do business with China or to confront them? And if we do confront them, confront them on what? Tibet? Cyberhacking? Stealing jobs? Currency Manipulation? Human rights? Jailing of activists? Freedom of the press? South China Sea Islands? All of the above?
The only American company which has stood by its principles in China is Google. They walked out of the market in 2010, in a protest of Chinese government surveillance, giving Baidu the monopoly.
But now every tech company seems to want a piece of the China pie. Even Google is supposed to be planning a re-entry into China.
25
I guess the answer, sadly, is do our tech companies satisfy themselves with billions and clear consciouses or Trillions and fitful sleep?
It can't be called "stealing" if those jobs were handed over to the Chinese by American corporations. No one can really steal a job. You lose your job either because you are incompetent, or too expensive for the job.
1
Over the next decade American firms will be frozen out of sales in China. They should stop dreaming about riches and accept the fact now. China has been very clear for over a decade: foreign companies can enter China while transferring technology but foreigners will not be allowed to make a profit. After that sinks in American tech businesses can act rationally.
77
China has only succeeded so far because it has adopted western approaches. Because it does not want to adopt more western approaches, it will not grow more. In fact, it looks like it may collapse.
14
I totally disagree w you.....China has produced so few start-ups/company making a difference in our world, I don't think China has a chance to stand on their own and make a dime. I think it is the USA who shd be willing to move on w/o compromising their integrity to include China.
Pls name 30 start-ups in China that are important to the USA.
Pls name 30 start-ups in China that are important to the USA.
8
Dolly Patterson,
Most of Chinas difference in the world is through manufacturing techniques and patents. Many of the US technologies were brought to fruition by foreign nationals working in the US with a H1B1 Visa.
Most of Chinas difference in the world is through manufacturing techniques and patents. Many of the US technologies were brought to fruition by foreign nationals working in the US with a H1B1 Visa.
2
Shame on those US tech firms that are selling their souls to China for profit.
Google refused to go along with China's censorship rules of handing over search data which China would use to monitor and stifle free speech in China, and at times jail people. So Google was banned. So was Facebook, and this very newspaper, NY Times, and the Washington Post and basically every bastion of free speech. Yahoo was the first to sell its soul and agreed to allow China to censor their search data, which as mentioned, China would use to monitor and stifle free speech, and at times jail people. Very shameful of Yahoo and let us never forget what it did.
In short, these US tech and internet companies should not join Yahoo's example in selling their souls to the soulless China, who only cares about profit, not human rights or freedoms.
Google refused to go along with China's censorship rules of handing over search data which China would use to monitor and stifle free speech in China, and at times jail people. So Google was banned. So was Facebook, and this very newspaper, NY Times, and the Washington Post and basically every bastion of free speech. Yahoo was the first to sell its soul and agreed to allow China to censor their search data, which as mentioned, China would use to monitor and stifle free speech, and at times jail people. Very shameful of Yahoo and let us never forget what it did.
In short, these US tech and internet companies should not join Yahoo's example in selling their souls to the soulless China, who only cares about profit, not human rights or freedoms.
67
thank you Walker, for your insightful and accurate comments.
3
But Google did concede and continues to concede to the censorship demands of the CPC. Google is not the champion you're making them out to be.
1
With all due respect, I am an American married to a Chinese woman and have been been going to China for the past 16 years, and lived there the past 6. To a person, every expat I knew there felt the same way, we all felt freer in China. Yes, freer. There is less regulation, you hardly ever see the police, and even then they aren't doing much. Sure, there are boundaries you don't cross when it comes to speech, but the same is true here. In China there is far less hostility and political acrimony. As to the police, they try to resolve simple conflicts at the police station level, rather than through the courts, by actually acting as arbitrators to bring it to mutually agreed upon resolution.
We just moved back to the U.S. And I now live in a community where the ocean closes at 10pm (not allowed on the beach after 10), bands at a bar aren't allowed to play past midnight, even on a weekend. In fact you need a license to have Live music, and there are only about 5 of those across twos cities here. And you need a separate license if you want to have dancing! The suppressives have taken over this country, and the robber barons (1%) are in control of our pocket books and politics. If we want to fix anything let's fix our own country first.
We just moved back to the U.S. And I now live in a community where the ocean closes at 10pm (not allowed on the beach after 10), bands at a bar aren't allowed to play past midnight, even on a weekend. In fact you need a license to have Live music, and there are only about 5 of those across twos cities here. And you need a separate license if you want to have dancing! The suppressives have taken over this country, and the robber barons (1%) are in control of our pocket books and politics. If we want to fix anything let's fix our own country first.
3
IBM and Facebook embarrass themselves and the rest of the country with the way they grovel for Xi's handouts. Rometty would sell herself, and the rest of us, to get IBM off life support. Unfortunately for her she is finding it a hard sell. Meanwhile Zuckerberg runs about like one of Mao's cadres in the 60s waving Xi's book around like a flag... maybe he can get it autographed in Seattle.
40
"Beijing is now pushing back in an unorthodox way: by organizing a technology forum to demonstrate its own sway over the American tech industry."
Bring it on - the US companies must not compromise about the importance of freedom of information.
Bring it on - the US companies must not compromise about the importance of freedom of information.
25
Having worked in China, one thing became very clear to me, they are not interesting in co-production or partner ships. They are willing to pay and loose a lot of money, to learn and then their original partners will suddenly become their adversaries and they will beat them as they know their arrogance and their short sided world view.