Realistically, Mr. Douthat, with this degree of corruption (http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34151528)
permeating middle-eastern countries that we count as our friends, how much do you think the US could accomplish there?
permeating middle-eastern countries that we count as our friends, how much do you think the US could accomplish there?
6
One of the unintended consequences of Sweden's liberal refugee policy is the situation in the city of Malmo, where "visible" Jews cannot walk the streets without being verbally or physically threatened or abused.
30
Somehow assigning a technical term (utilitarianism) to the issue, relieves Douthat of the need to square all the rationalizations with his strong religious beliefs.
"So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues." Really?
This reminds me of the guy at our sales meetings who delivered invocations that found justification for sharp/possibly illegal business practices.
"So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues." Really?
This reminds me of the guy at our sales meetings who delivered invocations that found justification for sharp/possibly illegal business practices.
8
It took a tiny child and an articulate, grief stricken father to humanize the mass influx of refugees. Abdullah Kurdi took his family home to Syria to bury them. What's important is what we do now, not how policies failed. We are all moved by the thousands who are walking to Austria and Germany, but it is the convoy of Austrian activists driving their cars to the border to offer safe transport and the Germans welcoming the refugees who are the real heroes. An Austrian woman said today that as a mother who could no longer turn a blind eye as she drove a Syrian family to safety. Overloaded fishing boats and dinghies, manned by human traffickers, are an obscenity.
the United States has ships that could help the rescue efforts. Where are they Mr. President? Where are we all?
the United States has ships that could help the rescue efforts. Where are they Mr. President? Where are we all?
10
I reject Mr. Douthat's conclusion that we bear responsibility for the internecine strife in Syria. Syria a totalitarian regime, riven with factions that share the totalitarian mindset. What everyone is ignoring is that these people in no way share our western traditions or values -- which is why, out of respect for our own way of life, we should take few if any refugees. Prior refugee crises have not confronted us with admitting large numbers of people from a culture and religion pledged to undermine and destroy our way of life. Muslims -- and esp. Arabs -- reject of religious tolerance (kill or convert the infidel), capitalism (no monetary interest -- a formula for poverty), democratic honesty (taqquiya: lie to outsiders), equality for women (who are kept virtually under house arrest), and other basic western values. If we and Europe admit them in large numbers, they will eventually bury us. Recognizing this is not "racist" -- it is realistic.
29
As usual, Douthat doesn't miss the opportunity to insinuate that Obama's Middle East policy could have helped moderate this crisis. If only we had fired some more missiles. Maybe a few boots on the ground. It's all so straightforward.
Of course he doesn't mention the direct causal relationship the war in Iraq had in destabilizing the region and tilling the soil for ISIS and the direct responsibility the conservative administration had in creating the current situation.
I'm tired of the ease with which conservative writers compartmentalize history, oozing moral authority as they critique those who struggle to clean up the uncleanable mess whose origin which now falls too far in the past for them to recall.
Of course he doesn't mention the direct causal relationship the war in Iraq had in destabilizing the region and tilling the soil for ISIS and the direct responsibility the conservative administration had in creating the current situation.
I'm tired of the ease with which conservative writers compartmentalize history, oozing moral authority as they critique those who struggle to clean up the uncleanable mess whose origin which now falls too far in the past for them to recall.
28
We failed him. And ourselves.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
9
If we had not invaded Iraq, this would probably not be happening. Pandora's box is what I think it is.
We should take a sizable number of Syrian refugees but especially, we should take more Iraqis. The ones that helped us during that outrageous war.
And I vote to send them to Texas and Wyoming---the homes of Bush and Cheney, respectfully. A fitting solution.
We should take a sizable number of Syrian refugees but especially, we should take more Iraqis. The ones that helped us during that outrageous war.
And I vote to send them to Texas and Wyoming---the homes of Bush and Cheney, respectfully. A fitting solution.
29
Who failed the surely hundreds, if not thousands, of dead, injured or permanently mutilated children in Syria? Each child is mourned just as deeply by those family members left. Emigration may decompress the home problem, but doesn't solve it. The will to solve any problem is nonexistent in societies where power rules without a commitment to provide education, health care and the promise of a rewarding future to the average citizen. The US cannot impose a change of attitude extending from those in control, through a decision by every individual to live together in peace.
1
A very sensible and rational analysis to the refugee crisis. Our first reaction seems blaming the inaction of various parties. The most sensible plan that I have seen offered is to stop the war in Syria ASAP and establish safe havens in Syria. The leadership in the Gang of 8 has the ability to do this but apparently does not have the leadership will to accomplish it. Massive refugee movement into Europe represents a terrible outcome for everyone involved and highlights this world leadership failure.
7
Predicate of article: "The U.S. has very consciously accepted stewardship of global stability." Nothing could be further from the truth. Most Americans (and the current administration) now believe that armed forays into Iraq and Afghanistan were failures; most Americans (and the current administration) are not willing to spend more money and troops on new military adventures. You cannot "accept stewardship of global stability" if you renounce the use of force to establish stability in places where anxious, well-intentioned words and empty gestures mean nothing.
8
Our press is failing to report that Turkey harbors nearly 2 million Syrian refugees and that its refugee "crisis" has been going on for the length of the Syrian civil war. Why do we equate "moral obligation" with western countries. Time to check the presumptions of our pundits.
11
"...because we too have sent arms and because of the links between our Iraq intervention and the region’s current chaos". The "links" are ones of causation. Bush & Co caused the current chaos and the majority of Americans voted for them, ostensibly twice. The responsibility is clear.
13
The future of humanity will be determined by how well all human beings contribute to our shared destiny. We are all inextricably connected to a species-wide network of mutual dependence.
And so it is necessary to call out our brothers and sisters in the Middle East for their no longer pardonable recalcitrance in embracing secular humanism and their tolerance for divisive, antiquated, and unhealthy social behaviors. And to do so with perfect awareness of our own faults and conspicuous inadequacies. To do so from the perspective of respect and a position of absolute equality of worthiness.
That we are all equal in our human capacities and potential for enlightenment is a truth only racists and other fools deny. A child born in Kabul is as innately bright as a child born in Manhattan.
It has been the practice to ascribe the violence and lack of social progress in the Middle East as the products of colonialism, historical tragedy, and despotic rule. But to accept this explanation as determinative is to be disrespectful to the intelligence of the individual human beings involved. It takes a paternalistic and dismissive attitude toward their capacity for creating healthy self-governance and peaceful, productive coexistence with people with whom they may profoundly disagree.
The individual citizens of the Middle East must be held accountable for transforming their societies from the bottom up – with an indifference to whatever causes have led to the present misery.
And so it is necessary to call out our brothers and sisters in the Middle East for their no longer pardonable recalcitrance in embracing secular humanism and their tolerance for divisive, antiquated, and unhealthy social behaviors. And to do so with perfect awareness of our own faults and conspicuous inadequacies. To do so from the perspective of respect and a position of absolute equality of worthiness.
That we are all equal in our human capacities and potential for enlightenment is a truth only racists and other fools deny. A child born in Kabul is as innately bright as a child born in Manhattan.
It has been the practice to ascribe the violence and lack of social progress in the Middle East as the products of colonialism, historical tragedy, and despotic rule. But to accept this explanation as determinative is to be disrespectful to the intelligence of the individual human beings involved. It takes a paternalistic and dismissive attitude toward their capacity for creating healthy self-governance and peaceful, productive coexistence with people with whom they may profoundly disagree.
The individual citizens of the Middle East must be held accountable for transforming their societies from the bottom up – with an indifference to whatever causes have led to the present misery.
11
The facts are:
Some US led humanitarian interventions have saved innumerable lives: Bosnia, Kosovo, the no fly zones over northern and southern Iraq after the first Gulf War--and some have had disasterous consequences: Somalia, Libya, and the mother of them all Iraq. But certainly Iraq, while having a humanitarian component, was more imperialist than humanitarian and all 3 suffered from incredibly incompetant implementation.
As for Syria, many working the crisis felt the US could have used some level of force, short of going to war (the state of affairs we now find ourselves in) to exert leverage on the parties to reach a deal. That window has passed and the violent extremism, destabilization of the region and mass refugee crisis that we predicted has come to pass. For the millions of Americans who smugly belived the US should stay out of this conflict, the suffering we are now seeing is only going to get worse as will threats against the U.S. from extremists.
As for refugees, Congress sets the numbers and the current level of Islamaphobia means they are all afraid of the political repercussions of permitting Muslims to enter the US refugee program. There is no will in either party to put in place an expedited program as we did for Kosovars during the Clinton Administration that rapidly brought in tens of thousands. It should be pointed out that according to surveys Syrians hold some of the most moderate views among Muslim countries (Bosnia being the most moderate.)
Some US led humanitarian interventions have saved innumerable lives: Bosnia, Kosovo, the no fly zones over northern and southern Iraq after the first Gulf War--and some have had disasterous consequences: Somalia, Libya, and the mother of them all Iraq. But certainly Iraq, while having a humanitarian component, was more imperialist than humanitarian and all 3 suffered from incredibly incompetant implementation.
As for Syria, many working the crisis felt the US could have used some level of force, short of going to war (the state of affairs we now find ourselves in) to exert leverage on the parties to reach a deal. That window has passed and the violent extremism, destabilization of the region and mass refugee crisis that we predicted has come to pass. For the millions of Americans who smugly belived the US should stay out of this conflict, the suffering we are now seeing is only going to get worse as will threats against the U.S. from extremists.
As for refugees, Congress sets the numbers and the current level of Islamaphobia means they are all afraid of the political repercussions of permitting Muslims to enter the US refugee program. There is no will in either party to put in place an expedited program as we did for Kosovars during the Clinton Administration that rapidly brought in tens of thousands. It should be pointed out that according to surveys Syrians hold some of the most moderate views among Muslim countries (Bosnia being the most moderate.)
5
Obama is, in fact, responsible for the situations in Libya, Syria, and Iraq and all the horrific refugee crises ensuing.
Suppose it is November 1944. Franklin Delano Roosevelt has failed to be elected to a FOURTH term as president. Instead a young quasi-isolationist Republican has been elected.
When this Republican version of Obama today takes office, the Battle of the Bulge has just been won. The new president is disgusted at the cost in lives and the prospect of more to be lost invading the heartland of Germany.
So, new Prez announced that he can not conclude a status-of-forces agreement with France's Charles De Gaulle, so therefore he is quitting the ground war against Germany and will concentrate instead on Japan (except for the American Eighth Air Force, which will continue to bomb Germany.)
Immediately Ike turns the army around and heads it back to Normandy to board ships and sail to the Pacific.
Heartened by this, Hitler rallies his forces and re-takes all of France. There are mass executions of the French resistance and headless bodies are found floating in the English Channel.
The new Prez claims: "Hey, if we had stayed in France and continued on to Germany we would have come into confrontation with the Russians and we would have had to keep massive military forces there the next 75 years!
All that is perfectly true. It happened.
Move forward to 2011. If we had not abandoned our hard-won, strategic bases in Iraq, ISIS could have stopped before it surged.
Suppose it is November 1944. Franklin Delano Roosevelt has failed to be elected to a FOURTH term as president. Instead a young quasi-isolationist Republican has been elected.
When this Republican version of Obama today takes office, the Battle of the Bulge has just been won. The new president is disgusted at the cost in lives and the prospect of more to be lost invading the heartland of Germany.
So, new Prez announced that he can not conclude a status-of-forces agreement with France's Charles De Gaulle, so therefore he is quitting the ground war against Germany and will concentrate instead on Japan (except for the American Eighth Air Force, which will continue to bomb Germany.)
Immediately Ike turns the army around and heads it back to Normandy to board ships and sail to the Pacific.
Heartened by this, Hitler rallies his forces and re-takes all of France. There are mass executions of the French resistance and headless bodies are found floating in the English Channel.
The new Prez claims: "Hey, if we had stayed in France and continued on to Germany we would have come into confrontation with the Russians and we would have had to keep massive military forces there the next 75 years!
All that is perfectly true. It happened.
Move forward to 2011. If we had not abandoned our hard-won, strategic bases in Iraq, ISIS could have stopped before it surged.
5
So, Ross, the Pope today called for all Catholics, Catholic Parishes, and Catholic communities to help and house these refugees. Just like the Catholic Catechism says. So, follow the Pope not your ultra conservative political urges.
9
"Iran above all, who have fed arms into the Syrian conflict"
ISIS has been a Saudi covert ops project from day 1.
ISIS has been a Saudi covert ops project from day 1.
9
Sometimes governments, whole populations, or even individual people try to do good things, to help people in need and to save lives. That is in and of itself a good thing. That does not mean that by doing so, there might one day be some unforeseen negative consequences. Yes, large numbers of Muslim immigrants to European countries like Germany or Sweden might someday have issues assimilating (we have seen this in many cases) or not be so welcome by local communities. There could be backlash, there could be violence, there could be anger and alienation among young men who struggle to fit in or find jobs. It's not a short-term problem so no short-term solutions will work.
5
I'm glad Mr. Douthat notes the Iraq War as a primary cause of the crisis. The comments here also note the proxy war with Russia and Iran which The Syrian war is.
We must stop the proxy war first. Second, we have to help the refugees. We helped make this mess, we must do our part to clean it up.
The problem is we can't fix the region without occupying it for at least a hundred years. There will never be the political will to do that.
We must stop the proxy war first. Second, we have to help the refugees. We helped make this mess, we must do our part to clean it up.
The problem is we can't fix the region without occupying it for at least a hundred years. There will never be the political will to do that.
4
An unsophisticated statement of the obvious: Unless and until Moslems in the Middle East learn to live at peace with each other and with their neighbors, countries will continue to become "failed states" and their people will continue to become desperate refugees. Shame on anyone who contributes swords rather than plowshares to angry Moslems. Agreeing to accept thousands of refugees while contributing to the creation of millions of refugees is putting a band aide on a gaping wound.
16
Thank you George W. Bush for this mess!
5
A whole column about the responsibility for the mess in the Syria and not one word about Bush's dishonest calamitous war? Your political Faraday cage is intact and working flawlessly.
17
A good analysis from a columnist I rarely agree with. "Blame" is elusive in a context where a Sunni majority has been ruled by a relatively secular Shi'a minority for many decades. Civil war was foreordained at some point- here it happened when other factors forced the issue and radicalized the Syrian majority to the extent they would sacrifice relative security to gain power. A main driver of the events being the American invasion of Iraq and its "war on Islam" that deposed a secular Sunni minority dictatorship and empowered an oppressive Shi'a majority-leaving the quondam ruling class with little left to lose- and an angry disaffection that has animated events in Syria to a great extent.
Germany, and Europe, will pay for the humanitarian impulses of Angela Merkel and, as others have said here, a far better solution would have been for Europe and the United States to pledge substantial money to help integrate refugees into surrounding Muslim countries that were willing to settle them. The reason one might get some takers is not due to any sense of obligation but for two other reasons- the US can call in favors and by mitigating the refugee crisis regional upheaval can be minimized and that is important for countries that are themselves at risk for revolution and civil war.
Germany, and Europe, will pay for the humanitarian impulses of Angela Merkel and, as others have said here, a far better solution would have been for Europe and the United States to pledge substantial money to help integrate refugees into surrounding Muslim countries that were willing to settle them. The reason one might get some takers is not due to any sense of obligation but for two other reasons- the US can call in favors and by mitigating the refugee crisis regional upheaval can be minimized and that is important for countries that are themselves at risk for revolution and civil war.
8
You can thank Pres. Obama for not helping the Syrian Opposition obtain Weapons so they can get rid of the Assad Regime... who continues to use "Barrel Bombs" to kill Syrian civilians ...resulting in a mass exodus of Refugees to Europe... And of course thank Pres. Obama for siding with Iran....who supports Assad...
----
----
2
Which opposition? AlQaeda or Isis? Wake up. We have no friends on either side.
11
Recently I heard a radio article about heroes. Why did they put their own safety at risk for people they didn't know? What were they thinking? For the most part, the answer was, they weren't thinking much about it at all. They just did what they did because it was the right thing to do.
Even nations can be heroic. We can look at the causes and consider blame, cost, and especially, what we would do differently next time. But right now, we can simply do the right thing.
Even nations can be heroic. We can look at the causes and consider blame, cost, and especially, what we would do differently next time. But right now, we can simply do the right thing.
5
Yes the world is a mess and it matters who we elect to be president. Leading from behind under the Obama-Clinton-Kerry disaster has weakened US and our allies and emboldened our enemies. Geopolitical naivete at the top of US for the past 14 1/2 years has hurt the world, and by all appearances, it looks to get no better in 2016. Break out the champagne, and help me re-arrange the deck chairs.
1
How convenient of you to leave out the names of people who "broke" the Middle East and started this calamity: George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld.
3
Young boy Aylan was failed by his irresponsible father who took him (and the rest of the family -- all perished save this dad) on a rickety boat to cross the sea from the safety of Bodrum, Turkey, with the ultimate goal of reaching Canada where the dad's sister lives. In Bodrum no Daesh or Assad were chasing them.
To top it all, then the dad decided to bury the boy in Kobane (where they initially originated from), which is in Syria, although under Kurdish rule (Daesh were outsted in Jan 2015). The boy's family is Kurdish not Syrian. This burial took place with Turkish members of partliament and TV crews in tow.
To top it all, then the dad decided to bury the boy in Kobane (where they initially originated from), which is in Syria, although under Kurdish rule (Daesh were outsted in Jan 2015). The boy's family is Kurdish not Syrian. This burial took place with Turkish members of partliament and TV crews in tow.
16
The Pope's not worried about assimilation.
8
The blame lies with Assad, Iran and Russia, which oddly is never even mentioned in the article. Assad's lust for power and desire to maintain his role has triggered a murderous attack on his own people, resulting in genocide, wmd's and mass exodus. This now vacuous country outside of Damascas has been taken over by ISIS. If the U.S. Is to blame, it's for letting Assad be the only dictator standing, following the Arab Spring, where Obama wa successful in getting rid of all our allies leaders, except for Netanyahu, but not for lack of trying by influencing the elections.
When a majority of Americans are looking to strengthen our borders, there is no support, nor should we feel guilty about not opening our doors to these displaced Syrians. Let Iran and Russia clean up the mess they made.
When a majority of Americans are looking to strengthen our borders, there is no support, nor should we feel guilty about not opening our doors to these displaced Syrians. Let Iran and Russia clean up the mess they made.
4
Everybody failed Aylan Kurdi.
Obama Barack was more than eager to endlessly bomb Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and Syria but refused to use our aircraft carriers, destroyers and airplanes to take the hundreds thousands helpless refugees to the safety .
Europe was timid and boneless to use the NATO influence to stop America from waging the useless wars all over the Arab and the Muslim world. It was obedient enough to sent the troops in the another round of the ancient Crusader Wars allegedly to protect the civilians but when it finally got a chance to help those civilians it erected the barbed wired fences in Hungary, Macedonia, Greece to stop them.
We the people voted all over again for the same corrupt and incompetent politicians.
Our journalists and free press cared only not to hurt their bottom line by displeasing the big business and other advertisers.
The mullahs and the Ayatollah cared only about the Sunnis and the Shiites while completely ignoring the wellbeing of the people and the Koran verses.
Aylan Kurdi parents blindly followed the politicians and the clergy that pushed them into the unnecessary bloody wars against their first neighbors…
All of us have failed Aylan Kurdi.
Obama Barack was more than eager to endlessly bomb Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, and Syria but refused to use our aircraft carriers, destroyers and airplanes to take the hundreds thousands helpless refugees to the safety .
Europe was timid and boneless to use the NATO influence to stop America from waging the useless wars all over the Arab and the Muslim world. It was obedient enough to sent the troops in the another round of the ancient Crusader Wars allegedly to protect the civilians but when it finally got a chance to help those civilians it erected the barbed wired fences in Hungary, Macedonia, Greece to stop them.
We the people voted all over again for the same corrupt and incompetent politicians.
Our journalists and free press cared only not to hurt their bottom line by displeasing the big business and other advertisers.
The mullahs and the Ayatollah cared only about the Sunnis and the Shiites while completely ignoring the wellbeing of the people and the Koran verses.
Aylan Kurdi parents blindly followed the politicians and the clergy that pushed them into the unnecessary bloody wars against their first neighbors…
All of us have failed Aylan Kurdi.
14
'Everyone failed Aylan' sounds eerily like no one is responsible, imo.
If there is a single point of failure with the disaster now happening in the middle east that point would be president Obama. There was time and adequate warning to enable the president to deal with this horrific monster which he dismissed as the "JV team." Now we are seeing a crisis unfold whose rival would only be WW2 and there is no plan to deal with it.
3
Ross, as is frequently the case, starts off with an interesting piece based on fairly keen observations. Then he collapses his argument due to an unwillingness to follow where his argument leads. It is a shame.
He writes:
"So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues. There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear.
Which means that every country’s obligations may be different."
drawing precisely the wrong conclusion.
Prudence does not change our obligations, it merely changes our immediate ability to meet those obligations. The obligations to "the least of us" remain. The work before us is not to move at a comfortable pace but to bring our pace to the demands of the work. Anything less is, ultimately, shirking our moral duty as a society to whom the world has given much.
We had better figure this out at a global level in short order because the flood of refugees is not going to diminish as all the forces of global unrest, inequity, injustice, environmental stress, gender inequality and climate change all converge.
Ross, you present an interesting viewpoint on this 'new normal' tragedy. You need to have the courage to follow where your arguments lead, even if you have to give up long held ideology.
He writes:
"So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues. There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear.
Which means that every country’s obligations may be different."
drawing precisely the wrong conclusion.
Prudence does not change our obligations, it merely changes our immediate ability to meet those obligations. The obligations to "the least of us" remain. The work before us is not to move at a comfortable pace but to bring our pace to the demands of the work. Anything less is, ultimately, shirking our moral duty as a society to whom the world has given much.
We had better figure this out at a global level in short order because the flood of refugees is not going to diminish as all the forces of global unrest, inequity, injustice, environmental stress, gender inequality and climate change all converge.
Ross, you present an interesting viewpoint on this 'new normal' tragedy. You need to have the courage to follow where your arguments lead, even if you have to give up long held ideology.
3
Ross Douthat speaks of geopolitical machinations that have created the refugee crisis, which has been highlighted by the drowning of the three-year-old Aylan Kurdi.
It's absolutely disgusting how the power-holders in the Middle East vie for influence in the region. What is more alarming is that Russia and the US will soon be fighting a proxy war in Syria, when the US backs the "moderate" Syrian rebels to fight Assad, who is said to have the military backing from Moscow, since he has suffered massive losses. Young Alawites are among the refugees to Europe to dodge military service.
If this proxy war escalates, it will only drive more civilians out of Syria, who will ultimately find their way to Europe.
It's absolutely disgusting how the power-holders in the Middle East vie for influence in the region. What is more alarming is that Russia and the US will soon be fighting a proxy war in Syria, when the US backs the "moderate" Syrian rebels to fight Assad, who is said to have the military backing from Moscow, since he has suffered massive losses. Young Alawites are among the refugees to Europe to dodge military service.
If this proxy war escalates, it will only drive more civilians out of Syria, who will ultimately find their way to Europe.
3
"Countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia are basically accepting no refugees."
Rulers of these countries are responsible for the refugee crisis. They want to replace Assad's secular government with a Wahhabi feudalist regime. The U.S. is colluding with them to overthrow Assad, and in doing so, they have destroyed the homes and cities where the refugees lived. The same gang is behind the overthrow of the Ghadaffi regime in Libya, which was, under Ghadaffi, a prosperous nation with a high standard of living which included national healthcare and public banks. Thanks to the U.S. and it Arab allies, Libya is now a failed state.
Rulers of these countries are responsible for the refugee crisis. They want to replace Assad's secular government with a Wahhabi feudalist regime. The U.S. is colluding with them to overthrow Assad, and in doing so, they have destroyed the homes and cities where the refugees lived. The same gang is behind the overthrow of the Ghadaffi regime in Libya, which was, under Ghadaffi, a prosperous nation with a high standard of living which included national healthcare and public banks. Thanks to the U.S. and it Arab allies, Libya is now a failed state.
4
I truly wish the NYT would make up its collective mind as to whether US exceptionalism is desirable, whether we have the duty to intervene on behalf of oppressed peoples everywhere, and whether that means we go to war to achieve our moral objectives. Or is this never-ending self-flagellation simply an exercise in political correctness?
8
The West benefits when Arabs are governed by unpopular and incompetent dictators who are nevertheless cunning enough to stay in power.
By the time we invaded Iraq Saddam Hussein was harmless to us. It was a mistake to overthrow him. It was also a mistake to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi and Hosni Mubarak. It was a mistake to try to overthrow Bashar al-Assad.
It is also a mistake to admit third world peoples to first world countries. They escape the dysfunctions of their countries and bring their dysfunctions with them, burdening our welfare and criminal justice systems.
By the time we invaded Iraq Saddam Hussein was harmless to us. It was a mistake to overthrow him. It was also a mistake to overthrow Muammar Gaddafi and Hosni Mubarak. It was a mistake to try to overthrow Bashar al-Assad.
It is also a mistake to admit third world peoples to first world countries. They escape the dysfunctions of their countries and bring their dysfunctions with them, burdening our welfare and criminal justice systems.
16
"Germany is failing in its obligations to its own." This view is the one driving the behavior of the various survivalist groups in several seasons of the prescient allegory playing out on our television screens, "The Walking Dead." All of our paranoid protectionist foibles played out by little groups hell bent on upholding their obligations "to their own." Failing even after the apocalypse to realize and accept that we are all each others' "own," even though doing so is the only road to survival.
4
The crucial, causal set of factors is a cultural atmosphere that values religious and ethnic differences over human life and civilization. The simple solution is for the parties in Syria, Iraq and Libya not to fight over such. The need for power, the psychology of greed and the wanting to suppress those slightly different from you is the fault.
Unless, there is a religious and ethnic reformation in the Middle East, such that such factors are no longer important, there will be no peace.
This stew of horrors draws in the West, Russia and China because they have oil. Otherwise no one would care. Add a favor of some in the USA who support Israel.
Trade dictators who are authoritarian for those who are religious fanatics. Watch the trades cause death.
A question - do those wanting to flee - want to abandon their religious beliefs incompatible with science and democracy? Do they want to be Germans or Swedes? Or do they build enclaves of the same culture in slums around Europe. Is that a solution and for how many?
Unless, there is a religious and ethnic reformation in the Middle East, such that such factors are no longer important, there will be no peace.
This stew of horrors draws in the West, Russia and China because they have oil. Otherwise no one would care. Add a favor of some in the USA who support Israel.
Trade dictators who are authoritarian for those who are religious fanatics. Watch the trades cause death.
A question - do those wanting to flee - want to abandon their religious beliefs incompatible with science and democracy? Do they want to be Germans or Swedes? Or do they build enclaves of the same culture in slums around Europe. Is that a solution and for how many?
9
After the end of World War 1, the Treaties of Sèvres and of Lausanne, imposed by Lloyd George and Clémenceau, carved up the Ottoman empire, and enforced its neo-colonial tutelage egoistically and thoughtlessly upon their centuries-old tribal culture. After World War Two the nonsensical boundary lines were more or less confirmed and full sovereignty and UN-membership was granted, subject to the geo-political aspirations of Britain and Francre. First exploited for centuries by the Turks and then the Europeans, the entire region remained mainly agricultural-commercial. It lacked the capital and infrastructure that would provide ample jobs for its – religion-induced – rapidly increasing population but with a very poor resource base, with the new generations having almost nowhere to go even if relatively more highly educated. By about the year 2000, the cauldron was ready to explode, resulting in the massive killing of Muslims by Muslims. I wonder if Lloyd George and Clémenceau would admit guilt if they were somehow made to look at the long-term consequences of their ego-maniacal decisions almost one hundred years ago? Should we or shouldn’t we assign mainly to Great Britain and to France, the initial responsibility for today’s catastrophic depopulation of especially Syria and Iraq, compelling them, through the United Nations Security Council, to accept/receive, unconditionally, most of the Syrian and Iraqi refugees and asylum-seekers?
3
To blame "the West" or the United States is ludicrous. As if Assad and the rest are not the ones to blame. This kind of self -hating idiocy, combined with disregard for existing citizens, is why "elites" are increasingly despised.
12
Don't worry, there's plenty of blame for everyone to share.
By the way, reflecting on historical cause and effect in order to avoid errors in the future is not self-hate but self-preservation. And anyone can do it. It is not reserved for the "elites".
By the way, reflecting on historical cause and effect in order to avoid errors in the future is not self-hate but self-preservation. And anyone can do it. It is not reserved for the "elites".
1
Pax Americana never extended to the "middle east." Nor did Pax Britannica or Pax Romana.
2
A thoughtful examination that finally leads nowhere.
The scale of the chaos and suffering stemming from war, and internal conflict, and the burgeoning of ISIS in the Middle East and much of northern Africa is immense.
The human toll is reaching proportions on a scale not seen since the Second World War. UN refugee efforts have long been at a point of profound exhaustion.
The response of the West has been mostly one of waiting for some form of profound exhaustion to take hold, to end the carnage and the massive population displacements.
This may well prove to be a grand delusion, and act of calloused convenience in the face of a lack of political will to act.
What could be emerging is a paradigm change in which the presumed agency of powers like the United States, and the European Union/NATO, the former Soviet Union to impose stability becomes a historic relic.
The scale of the chaos and suffering stemming from war, and internal conflict, and the burgeoning of ISIS in the Middle East and much of northern Africa is immense.
The human toll is reaching proportions on a scale not seen since the Second World War. UN refugee efforts have long been at a point of profound exhaustion.
The response of the West has been mostly one of waiting for some form of profound exhaustion to take hold, to end the carnage and the massive population displacements.
This may well prove to be a grand delusion, and act of calloused convenience in the face of a lack of political will to act.
What could be emerging is a paradigm change in which the presumed agency of powers like the United States, and the European Union/NATO, the former Soviet Union to impose stability becomes a historic relic.
1
Of course, there will be a stampede to assign blame to whatever hobby horse cause someone wants to promote. But, here's the underlying game--cause trouble in some part of the world, which then causes a new crisis, which the perpetrator then uses to claim that they must now be given new authority to solve. Which solution then spans a new crisis--mandating more authority to the original perpetrator to solve. Rinse, repeat.
1
Why not encourage some of the refugees to go to third-world countries? Many of these countries have been brain-drained, and need entrepreneurs, teachers and health-care professionals. And many of the Syrians who are clamoring to get into Germany are well educated.
2
ISIS and his parents? Has all the media coverage of the broader tragedy moved and changed a single ISIS fighter and worker? And unless the tragedy moves ISIS hearts the problem has no feasible solution?
Only a person with a heart of rock could not feel sympathy for the dead boy. In our idealism and "knowing what is best for the rest of the world" we invaded Iraq- Bush and Cheney- and then we continued to push for democratic reform in a world that was not ready fo Locke in the Obama- Clinton policies. The real world as it has existed is a very nasty place to live; red tooth in claw. Even a bad dictator is better than the anarchy of war. We have a leader who is a follower and the Putins and Chinese know it so the winner is the one who does battle. Always has been always will.
Israel still exists because of "never again." The Jews have taken a pounding for years with daily threats of rockets and bullets. They are brave and resolute. I see none of them fleeing the Middle East. Why can't the Syrian men and women defend themselves? Why won't the US arm them and fly a few airplanes overhead during the process. This will sound harsh butthe first one to blame is the men and women who lack courage to fight back.
Protect your family even if it means your life. The UN, US, Germany or some other country can defend you but is not obligated. Learn from your next door example Isreal.
Israel still exists because of "never again." The Jews have taken a pounding for years with daily threats of rockets and bullets. They are brave and resolute. I see none of them fleeing the Middle East. Why can't the Syrian men and women defend themselves? Why won't the US arm them and fly a few airplanes overhead during the process. This will sound harsh butthe first one to blame is the men and women who lack courage to fight back.
Protect your family even if it means your life. The UN, US, Germany or some other country can defend you but is not obligated. Learn from your next door example Isreal.
5
They have been trying to protect themselves. Where have you been? This has been going on for years. It's futile. The enemies are within. Did Israel have to face opposition from other Jews? Is it really smart to stick around waiting for your family to be beheaded or blown to bits, or is it the smarter move to try to get them to a safe haven? And does that take no courage? Maybe you need to walk a mile in their shoes before you make such demeaning statements.
2
If allowed the USA would be flooded with 50 million people a year until it sank into the sea. We already have probably 20 million illegal immigrants from
Mexico, China and everywhere else. They would just keep coming. The answer is for these 3rd world countries to start getting their act together and create a working society.
Mexico, China and everywhere else. They would just keep coming. The answer is for these 3rd world countries to start getting their act together and create a working society.
6
The callous behavior of countries like Britain, where I grew up and was educated, and The United States, which I also call home, leave me feeling nothing but ashamed to be connected to both countries regarding the refugee crisis. The latter foolishly and often trumpets the phrase that it is the greatest country on earth. Great at what? Turning its back on desperate people in need of hope, security and a place to call home. God forbid large numbers of Americans should ever find themselves in a position similar to that being suffered by the refugees fleeing Iraq, Syria and parts of Africa.
4
I think this columnist is a hide-bound ideologue, but he does point out a real long-term consequence of admitting large numbers of people from a different culture. stating what those long-term consequences are is predicting the future, which is guessing.
the valid point is that there are long-term consequences, and we should consider them along with our natural reaction to this tragedy. as one of the commenters points out, this is not the only child dying today in the world. the news media has jumped on this because it gives them something to do and something to report, but it's not a complete story in and of itself.
it's difficult because we can only guess at the long-term consequences, and guessing opens the door for political demagoguery and fear-mongering. it's not the most likely, but quite possible that out of these refugees will come a modernized version of Islam that has moved beyond violence as a core value. that's possibly a politically incorrect statement; it's an alternative and more hopeful long-term consequence that differs from the ones implied in the column.
the valid point is that there are long-term consequences, and we should consider them along with our natural reaction to this tragedy. as one of the commenters points out, this is not the only child dying today in the world. the news media has jumped on this because it gives them something to do and something to report, but it's not a complete story in and of itself.
it's difficult because we can only guess at the long-term consequences, and guessing opens the door for political demagoguery and fear-mongering. it's not the most likely, but quite possible that out of these refugees will come a modernized version of Islam that has moved beyond violence as a core value. that's possibly a politically incorrect statement; it's an alternative and more hopeful long-term consequence that differs from the ones implied in the column.
2
There's nothing wrong with taking chances. Your alternative vision of the consequences is just as plausible as the fear induced vision - likely more so. If all of our wealth wasn't being driven to the top 1% we could deal with this crisis and our combined domestic crises. This country is also "destabilized" and that needs to change now.
1
One thing I find disturbing is the intense media focus on tragedies like the death of this poor little boy, and photos of women and children, when I have read that the great majority of migrants and refugees reaching Europe are young men -- as in, 75-85%. An accurate focus on who the migrants are would be a better way to shape sensible policies and responses, including an acknowledgment that 1) there IS some risk that among these young men are some who will turn to terrorism, either deliberately infiltrating Europe in this way or becoming embittered over time when Europe cannot meet their expectations or asks them to assimilate; and 2) it is well known that the presence of many unemployed or underemployed young men in any society is a barometer for crime and unrest, even when looking at native-born citizens in their own countries. Rather than highlighting the few (and highly sympathetic, vulnerable and photogenic) women and children in this migration, let's direct help to the ones who were left stranded in areas of conflict and plan rationally for an influx of angry young men into other nations.
11
Where do you get your statistics?
As a person who for 30 years happily lived in a foreign country and loved every minute of it, I do not believe in this kind of mass migration unless it is caused by natural disaster. This Syrian crises is a man made and should be fixed by man. What UN is good for in a time like this? All foreign parties involved should get together with Assad to stop this none sense. For thousands of years until last century this kind of event was common practice and people of a nation some how managed without mass migration. This new place to go America or Europe is not going to solve the problem, at least not for all. Do not give them fish to eat, teach them how to fish!
Here, first foreign powers like US, Russia, Iran and Sunnis should get to some kind of understanding among themselves to make peace among themselves without proxy war then implement it in Syria! West should not accept this young immigrants since these are the wealth of the nation they are escaping from. Rather than escaping they should fight for their right to live in peace in their own country like they did in the past without running from the problem!! What is going to happen to the rest of the people who stay?
Here, first foreign powers like US, Russia, Iran and Sunnis should get to some kind of understanding among themselves to make peace among themselves without proxy war then implement it in Syria! West should not accept this young immigrants since these are the wealth of the nation they are escaping from. Rather than escaping they should fight for their right to live in peace in their own country like they did in the past without running from the problem!! What is going to happen to the rest of the people who stay?
4
Well written, objective. I doubt we know the long term implications of refugees on the move, as with no world power willing to intervene with major force, the war in the middle east may go on for decades. History tells us Mulsimes want to put back together their geography, prior to Brit and French colonialism.
The United States or any single nation does not have the resources to save any nation from itself. This is a world problem and requires a firm international response. Unfortunately, the UN as currently constituted is not up to the task. Essentially, the UN is a primarily political organization given the power of the big five nations and their ability to veto any actions that are not amenable to their power interests. Thus, the Russians protect their Syrian clients, China protects the N. Koreans, so on. For there to be meaningful action to help people in crisis area, a more effective world body would have to be created
1
"who failed...?"
All those who think that there is a military solution in the region. We are allied with a nation that has seized and occupied land and demands more arms because it perceives an "existential threat" while it threatens the existence of those displaced under occupation. We are allied with medieval theocratic monarchical despots who extort money and weapons from us for oil, while they spread a message of primitive Sunni Wahhabi fanaticism around the world by indoctrination and training terrorists. We are in proxy wars with another nation whose elected government we overthrew and then installed a dictator who ran a police state torturing and imprisoning opponents to the extent that revolution resulted in an intolerant theocracy.
Who can we blame? The oil industry? The defense industry? Greed that recognizes no recourse other than war and world conquest? Complacency at the imperialism that America practices under the banner of democracy while the forces of cruelty exploit the resources and people around the world and strangle democracy at home with racism, hatred and avarice?
There are not two equal points of view here in America. There are those who believe in and support democracy and those who believe in their own selfish goals at the expense of all others.....even small children.
All those who think that there is a military solution in the region. We are allied with a nation that has seized and occupied land and demands more arms because it perceives an "existential threat" while it threatens the existence of those displaced under occupation. We are allied with medieval theocratic monarchical despots who extort money and weapons from us for oil, while they spread a message of primitive Sunni Wahhabi fanaticism around the world by indoctrination and training terrorists. We are in proxy wars with another nation whose elected government we overthrew and then installed a dictator who ran a police state torturing and imprisoning opponents to the extent that revolution resulted in an intolerant theocracy.
Who can we blame? The oil industry? The defense industry? Greed that recognizes no recourse other than war and world conquest? Complacency at the imperialism that America practices under the banner of democracy while the forces of cruelty exploit the resources and people around the world and strangle democracy at home with racism, hatred and avarice?
There are not two equal points of view here in America. There are those who believe in and support democracy and those who believe in their own selfish goals at the expense of all others.....even small children.
5
There are different ways to intervene. Creating a safe zone with air cover, a "no fly zone," within Syria, as experienced diplomats have suggested, could minimize many negative effects of the uprooting. We failed to do that in Darfur, and now 2 million refugees from the Government's attacks suffer in the desert, innoticed, without hope or justice.
TRADITIONALISM - I'm right/you're wrong - Our's is the true faith/you're infidels - We're patriots/you're traitors. It's ever-present among all societies, nations; and it results from human nature so it's not going away anytime soon. But look to where people flee: US and Canada, 'Western' Europe. Places where, whether for opportunity/'freedom' ( in its myriad forms and conceptions)/safety, the observable rise, even primacy, of Modern and Humanistic values are salient in distinguishing those places
3
Who failed Aylan? The only reason we know Aylan's name is because of a compelling photo. The same carnage has been occurring for decades, in the middle east. Our leaders would prefer we look the other way. George W. Bush made a fatal error invading Iraq. There is no evidence he intentionally mislead the world. But, certainly, estimates of Saddam's WMD and the military estimates to invade that country were wrong. If the invasion went smoothly, Bush would be considered a hero. But Obama continued the onslaught of strategic errors by abandoning Iraq prematurely, destabilizing Egypt and Libya. We could go back further and look at how the Clinton administration ignored multiple attacks on our military, embassies and the first world trade center attack. We can continue to play the blame game or face reality. ISIS needs to be destroyed. If going into Syria is too complicated, we should destroy them in Iraq, this will also weaken them in Syria and provide an additional front to attack them. But, if we continue to allow our leaders to downplay the threats and carnage and just blame the previous administration, this problem will not be addressed.
2
"There is no evidence he intentionally mislead the world."
You can't possibly be serious.
You can't possibly be serious.
1
WMD was the pretext justifying Iraqi invasion. But one of underlying motivations was to bring democracy to the Middle East through the domino effect - first Iraq and then other countries would follow. Overthrow of dictators and monarchs was one of the goals. Of course, wedidn't mean the dictators and monarchs of our allies...
1
All the signatories to Sykes Picot are responsible. The only ethnically compatible countries in the Middle East are Egypt and Iran. Every other one is a force fit of ethnic cultures and religious factions - created by the powers that won WWI. Those signatories must accept responsibility? Having said that, this problem does not end by accepting some refugees into other countries. It ends with all out war to the death.
2
Some people never learn. Interventionist foreign policy is almost always a failure. We precipitated the Syrian civil war for "regime change" to eliminate Assad and it went wrong. We really had no means to correct it and ISIS is the result. Same thing with Iraq and Libya. BTW did anyone happen to notice (as Tom Friedman put it in his column) the USA coddling the worst supporter of terrorism is the world? Our radical islamic, terrorist hugging, misogynist, racist, tyrannical, antisemitic BFF.....Saudi Arabia.
4
Ross, Surely Jesus addressed this in the parable of the Good Samaritan, when asked "Who is my neighbour?" The kind of rationalization you engage in is what the Pharisees were masters of. We Christians believe in a full measure of grace to "do the right thing". What seems impossible to man is possible with God. This has to be balanced,as you write, with calculations and the application of reason. We should not, Jesus cautions, put our hand to the plow and then later turn back. Waves of immigrants have indeed been successfully assimilated in the USA.
2
Yeah, we only bear slight responsibility for this mess. Yeah, yeah, that's it, Ross. If you say it often enough you'll start to believe it. After all, we only completely destabilized the region 12 years ago. And isn't taking in refugees, let alone (God forbid) ILLEGAL immigrants, a messy business?
It's not good policy, right? So even if we are at fault here - which is, according to you, Ross, only slight - we need to watch from a distance and tread lightly. Lest we pour gas on the flame of our current foray into jingoism via Mr. Trump? And Perry? And Huckabee? And Paul? And... (who are those other candidates)?
It's not good policy, right? So even if we are at fault here - which is, according to you, Ross, only slight - we need to watch from a distance and tread lightly. Lest we pour gas on the flame of our current foray into jingoism via Mr. Trump? And Perry? And Huckabee? And Paul? And... (who are those other candidates)?
3
The Islamic theocracies failed Alyan Kurdi just as they have failed anyone who wasn't born into the Allah-favored sect of the moment.
How do we know that Allah favored the sect?
Just ask one of the theocrats.
How do we know that Allah favored the sect?
Just ask one of the theocrats.
2
A reality-based discussion with nuance and thoughtfulness: gotta love it. Thank you Mr. Douthat.
Meanwhile at Fox News, the dead child is "Obama's fault". Sigh...
Meanwhile at Fox News, the dead child is "Obama's fault". Sigh...
2
The Middle East has been a powder keg for centuries, and too often Western powers lit fires beside the powder. There should be no statute of limitations on the recent NeoCon disaster there.
The back-story of Aylan's death is long. Crusaders played a negative role, combining dueling gods and dueling greed. So too did the sectarian divisions in Islam that followed the death of Mohammed. Subsequently, after WWI, the division of Mesopotamia and the Ottoman Empire sowed seeds of further disaster.
Land and peoples were allocated to European powers according to their relative strengths and also according to their histories. Italy got a chunk of North Africa. So too did France. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and above all, Iraq, were created with more regard for the power and pliability of local princes than for the homogeneity of the peoples caged behind weird lines, some of them straight as rulers laid across the sands. Iraq, in particular, owes its strange geography to Gertrude Bell, acquaintance of T.E. Lawrence.
The Israel-Palestine story has been a disaster for the region. So too has America's influence throughout the regiom. Many of us took to the streets in 2003 and 2004 to say so as loudly as Bloomberg's riot police would allow. I believe Obama is a great president, but he is not a magician. He cannot wave a wand and undo decades of greed and malfeasance. By all means, let’s blame him for everything.
The back-story of Aylan's death is long. Crusaders played a negative role, combining dueling gods and dueling greed. So too did the sectarian divisions in Islam that followed the death of Mohammed. Subsequently, after WWI, the division of Mesopotamia and the Ottoman Empire sowed seeds of further disaster.
Land and peoples were allocated to European powers according to their relative strengths and also according to their histories. Italy got a chunk of North Africa. So too did France. Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and above all, Iraq, were created with more regard for the power and pliability of local princes than for the homogeneity of the peoples caged behind weird lines, some of them straight as rulers laid across the sands. Iraq, in particular, owes its strange geography to Gertrude Bell, acquaintance of T.E. Lawrence.
The Israel-Palestine story has been a disaster for the region. So too has America's influence throughout the regiom. Many of us took to the streets in 2003 and 2004 to say so as loudly as Bloomberg's riot police would allow. I believe Obama is a great president, but he is not a magician. He cannot wave a wand and undo decades of greed and malfeasance. By all means, let’s blame him for everything.
4
Who failed [ X ]? Fill in the blank. We're all human, and en masse we're a miserable, destructive species. Carping criticism never built a castle or wrote a symphony, but it's brought America to the brink of [ X ]. Fill in the blank, but X does not equal greatness.
I pray that aylan ,his mother and his brother have not died in vain. It's not time to point fingers. It is time for the world to grieve the loss of this beautiful family. They are a symbol of all families . All good people of all faiths should agree ,this is a horrible tragedy . Unfortunately these types of events are repeated time and time again throughout history. " where have all the flowers gone "
1
So Germany feels the need to accept refugees because they have a high GDP; they are well off. To me that sounds like an admirable (Christian?) thing to do. In the US, another wealthy nation, the right wing evangelicals (Christian?) maintain a state of xenophobia. We don't want anyone from Mexico, we certainly don't want anyone from Syria! Those people are Muslim, for goodness sake. They claim this is a "Christian" nation. I think Christ would disagree.
3
It is getting close to where the U.S. policy in the MidEast should follow that of a former Roman Govenor in that region. Pontious Pilot saw that religion and politics were to each other as a flame is to dry brush...an uncontrollable conflagration and literally washed his hands on making a descisioñ to solve it Perhaps it's time the majority who don't have money tied up in PETRO FORTUNES, demand of our government to "wash OUR hands" of the PETRO BLOOD from a dying commodity. After all,oil is NOT a renewable resource.
2
From the NYT digital
"VIENNA — Pope Francis on Sunday called on every parish, religious community, monastery and sanctuary in Europe to shelter refugees fleeing “death from war and hunger,” adding that the Vatican’s two parishes would lead the way by taking in two families."
How long before you and your right wing American catholic buddies can defy the Pope with conformist twister hackery Douthat? My prediction, you are already at work, 48 hours max before you can turn your back on the waylaid man in the ditch. And his family. And the Pope. And the man, a Jew, who told a story in which the hero was a Samaritan, Samaritans being at war with the Jews over exactly which were the holy books and who the chosen were.
"VIENNA — Pope Francis on Sunday called on every parish, religious community, monastery and sanctuary in Europe to shelter refugees fleeing “death from war and hunger,” adding that the Vatican’s two parishes would lead the way by taking in two families."
How long before you and your right wing American catholic buddies can defy the Pope with conformist twister hackery Douthat? My prediction, you are already at work, 48 hours max before you can turn your back on the waylaid man in the ditch. And his family. And the Pope. And the man, a Jew, who told a story in which the hero was a Samaritan, Samaritans being at war with the Jews over exactly which were the holy books and who the chosen were.
8
Russia & China (both authoritarian repressive regimes) enabled Assad and his thuggery, preventing any possiblity of an early non-violent transition in Syria. While the administration was understandably allergic to military involvement here, in 20-20 hindsight, it seems possible that the establishment of a no-fly zone (as done for a prolonged period in Iraq prior to the 2nd war there) might have pushed Assad over the edge, either into oblivion, or at least into some kind of negotiated power-sharing arrangement. Considering the downsides of power vacuums in this region (opportunities for likes of ISIL and the unleashing of religious strife), the latter may have been preferable.
Considering the results of the no-fly zone over the northern Kurdish portion of Iraq, it gave the Kurds sufficient breathing-space to develop what is one of the more stable pseudo-states in this troubled region. (And we would do well to strongly encourage continued peaceful resolution between Turkey and the Kurds, and discourage the reversion to violent means on both sides.)
Considering the results of the no-fly zone over the northern Kurdish portion of Iraq, it gave the Kurds sufficient breathing-space to develop what is one of the more stable pseudo-states in this troubled region. (And we would do well to strongly encourage continued peaceful resolution between Turkey and the Kurds, and discourage the reversion to violent means on both sides.)
1
Politicians are not Humanitarians, they always play one for future elections and the cameras. Many more Syrian and Yemeni children will die and nothing will be done other fancy meetings in fancy rooms. Our modern reality.
1
Surely hell must have frozen over.
I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Ross has written in today's column.
I find myself agreeing with nearly everything Ross has written in today's column.
9
Here's a project my Republican friends might consider taking on: replace the torch in the Statue of Liberty's right hand with an AK47. I think it would be a fitting symbol of their idea of America today.
Go ahead, Trump, and build that wall. Not matter how high, it will be about as effective as the Great Wall of China was in keeping out the Mongols and other nomadic raiders and invaders.
Instead of keeping people out of our lives and out of our country, we ought to start inviting them in. It's not just about saving "them;" it's also about saving us.
Go ahead, Trump, and build that wall. Not matter how high, it will be about as effective as the Great Wall of China was in keeping out the Mongols and other nomadic raiders and invaders.
Instead of keeping people out of our lives and out of our country, we ought to start inviting them in. It's not just about saving "them;" it's also about saving us.
7
When UN envoy Lakhdar Brahimi was making the rounds of various countries, begging them to push for a dialogue between Assad and the opposition, he was ignored. Yes, Assad is a brutal dictator but encouraging the opposition to insist that dialogue could happen only after he had stepped down, led to an impasse and we see the consequences now.
Russia wanted to show support for its protege Assad and US thought that it could oust Assad as it had ousted Gaddafi. The Syrian people paid a price for these games.
I think the refugees should be divided between Russia and the US. That will teach the super powers to be more flexible in the next conflict. If they perpetuate the conflict then they will have to pick up the pieces.
Russia wanted to show support for its protege Assad and US thought that it could oust Assad as it had ousted Gaddafi. The Syrian people paid a price for these games.
I think the refugees should be divided between Russia and the US. That will teach the super powers to be more flexible in the next conflict. If they perpetuate the conflict then they will have to pick up the pieces.
2
A number of reactions:
1. The U.S. bears a portion of the culpability for the plight of these refugees due to its prosecution of the Iraq War, which destabilized the region.
2. Is part of the reason that Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are not accepting these refugees due to the Sunni-Shiite split (Saudi Arabia/Gulf States Sunni; refugees Shiite)?
3. It seems obvious that a global solution should be crafted to resettle migrants/refugees-- one that provides jobs, food, health care, education and shelter.
4. Adequate jobs, food, health care, education and shelter should be the birthright of every person on Earth. We are failing in this mission.
1. The U.S. bears a portion of the culpability for the plight of these refugees due to its prosecution of the Iraq War, which destabilized the region.
2. Is part of the reason that Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States are not accepting these refugees due to the Sunni-Shiite split (Saudi Arabia/Gulf States Sunni; refugees Shiite)?
3. It seems obvious that a global solution should be crafted to resettle migrants/refugees-- one that provides jobs, food, health care, education and shelter.
4. Adequate jobs, food, health care, education and shelter should be the birthright of every person on Earth. We are failing in this mission.
1
I don't agree with Mr. Douthat on most things but I agree with the main conclusions in this article. Refugees from war is a global problem in this connected world. Regardless of our geopolitical interests or involvement, wealthy nations should address the humanitarian crisis in the short term. While US and Europe need to do more, other politically involved countries, even on the opposite side, such as Iran and Russia should also accept their share of refugees. Wealthy gulf states also cannot buy off their responsibilities. Other major economies in the world, China, India, Japan also should play roles. The host countries may assimilate what they can but helping most refugees return to their homeland is ultimately the long term solution.
1
There are events that cannot be controlled and their consequences do not lend themselves to solutions but to feeble remedies. No country is able to receive and settle hundreds of thousands of refugees suddenly even if willing. Perhaps, distributed over a long period of times, it might be possible. The problem with "moral responsibility" is that it is an absolute and human beings do not operate on that level. Most people would accept happily a reasonable number of immigrants or refugees but find difficult to absorb, both physically and psychologically, large numbers of them. It is within human nature to recoil when one feels threatened and large transmigrations, whatever their origins, create this reaction. When one thinks of the vast semi-inhabitated areas of the US, Montana and many of the central states, it would seem that we could accommodate large numbers without creating a rebellion. However, there is difficulty distributing people by fiat and a greater difficulty in getting the acceptance of those who live there.
So, while things could be better managed, all crises present the same problems.
So, while things could be better managed, all crises present the same problems.
1
The best solution is to provide funds for Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon so these people don't have to die crossing the ocean. This is the easiest and most cost-effective solution and I don't know why it isn't being done. Perhaps Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan don't want any more? I don't know. I'm sure, poor as they are, they can be influenced by money.
1
One need not look too far to assign blame. His parents.
8
Arab countries believe universal education is a western conceit. Rights for half their population, those of women, another western conceit. Respect and tolerance for beliefs other than strict Islam, a western conceit. Limiting family size and exploding population with planning and birth control, another western conceit. Democratic elections, yep, a western conceit. How has this worked out? A complete disaster from the Atlantic to the shining Persian Gulf.
But blaming the west? Ah yes! Colonialism. Support of dictators. Overthrowing dictators! Intervening. Not intervening in time! All our fault. Not absorbing an endless flow of "migrants", our fault. If we owe anything it is to provide schools and to insist on rights, tolerance and elections from the Arabs, all of them.
But blaming the west? Ah yes! Colonialism. Support of dictators. Overthrowing dictators! Intervening. Not intervening in time! All our fault. Not absorbing an endless flow of "migrants", our fault. If we owe anything it is to provide schools and to insist on rights, tolerance and elections from the Arabs, all of them.
11
Finally, a voice of reason. Islam has had a violent history since its inception, and while our "connectedness" makes pictures like this accessible, it is old news. "Blame the West" is old news as well — although, considering the blunders of the past 6-1/2 years, it has some merit.
"...America, the West, the world — failed the Kurdi family???"
A Syrian dictator guns down his own people when they ask for Democracy, starting a civil war, and Douthat wants to start his own apology tour blaming the U.S.A?
Talk about kool-aide
A Syrian dictator guns down his own people when they ask for Democracy, starting a civil war, and Douthat wants to start his own apology tour blaming the U.S.A?
Talk about kool-aide
4
Are these really refugees? The Times, in an astonishing performance of non-reporting, are still yet unable to call them anything but migrants. As Peter Hitchens writes, this family was safe in Turkey, an EU member. Other media outlets are being honest about the number of well-off young men in this mass of humanity, but the Times is concealing the real demographics, the real economic status, the real motives, and especially the orchestrated nature of many things they are calling, at the cost of any journalistic integrity, "spontaneous." It is not spontaneous to demand entry into one country rather than another, en masse, after taking over transportation systems because you want more jobs, ie. other people's jobs, and more access to welfare policies, ie. other people's money. It is not spontaneous to degrade the hospitality of the country in which you purport to be seeking asylum because you want a job and wealth, not safety, not sanctuary. Rather than reporting, the Times is engaging in the lowest forms of manipulation, with reporters on buses penning carefully tooled "human interest" stories aimed at blurring the lines between migrants and refugees and demouncing those who dare the question the narrative. The story here has become another opportunity for an uninformed mob to cheer and hiss at their chosen enemies, all at a safe distance, to satisfy narcissistic self-regard.
16
Once again, the steeped-in-religion party finds a way to refuse the part of Good Samaritan. Of course America is to blame because our swaggering Commander In Chief sent in the troops to teach Saddam a lesson, thus triggering a seismic shift throughout the Middle East.
If we wanted to attack somebody promoting evil and we loved oil all that much, we could have remembered from where the vast majority of the hijackers and UBL hailed.
Mission Accomplished
If we wanted to attack somebody promoting evil and we loved oil all that much, we could have remembered from where the vast majority of the hijackers and UBL hailed.
Mission Accomplished
6
The Iraq War, Part 2, was set in motion by the Clinton administration, who pushed the Iraq Liberation Act through Congress in 1998, with the support of Democrats. Indeed, Democrats were enthusiastic supporters of the 2003 Bush intervention, cheered the downfall of Saddam Hussein, and patted themselves on the back when the first functioning Democracy in the region held elections. Obama dismantled necessary military support for the Iraq government, and chaos followed.
An excellent well-written column that reflects my onw impressions of the situation.
3
"...the world’s powers, the United States chief among them, had a responsibility to prevent the Syrian war from developing, and a responsibility to protect its victims once it did."
Ross, it is best to look at things from the point of beginning, instead of convenience.
We all know who took the wrecking ball to the middle east in search of mythical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - and how the disaster is continuing in its 13th year. We are watching a civilization being destroyed, thanks to the so-called neo-cons! Preaching about caring for refugees sounds good, but it highlights rather than wash away responsibility and guilt.
Ross, it is best to look at things from the point of beginning, instead of convenience.
We all know who took the wrecking ball to the middle east in search of mythical weapons of mass destruction in Iraq - and how the disaster is continuing in its 13th year. We are watching a civilization being destroyed, thanks to the so-called neo-cons! Preaching about caring for refugees sounds good, but it highlights rather than wash away responsibility and guilt.
8
Remember the Central American children who tried to enter the U.S. a short time ago and the reception they got? Add to that the physical and metaphorical walls so many in our country want to build. Then contemplate exiling millions of Americans who have lived here all their lives. Keep hoping, Ross.
1
They are not exiles. They are people who are not willing to stand up and fight for what they believe in no matter what.....isn't that the American way?
What would Jesus (and your Pope) say?
3
This was very reasonable and considered analysis of the problems. A breath of fresh air into the stale dialogue of good / bad western-world.
2
Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz opened a can of worms by toppling Sadam Husein and the dominoes have not stopped falling. Condi Rice once said proudly that the conflicts in Egypt/Libya were the "birth pains of democracy". The refugee problem is a result of all of this. It is little wonder that Europe and the rest of the world have little appetite to clean up this mess.
12
Perhaps Israel should be prevailed upon to accept a significant number of refugees and to show them what Jewish democracy looks like. That might go far in resolving the never ending crisis that began in 1948.
Where were the voices as Lebanon was smashed to smithereens(I was there) and while Iraq was burning? So many instances of horror and now one little body on a beach tears at the heart of "sensitive" people everywhere.
Where were the voices as Lebanon was smashed to smithereens(I was there) and while Iraq was burning? So many instances of horror and now one little body on a beach tears at the heart of "sensitive" people everywhere.
3
It it just a coincidence that peace broke out in Europe when birth rates fell to the replacement level?
3
I wish you were on the,New York Times Editorial Board
When war only boosts birth rates, you know this planet is toast.
2
Mr. Douthat raises questions that should have been examined in March 2011. Advocates that Asad was about to fall held sway as our local allies leaped upon “Arab Spring” to undercut Iran. When Asad did not collapse and the majority of the people either continued their support or remained neutral, the Gulf-Turkish alliance, with Western backing, increased their financial and material support to the rebels. What was portrayed as a surge for liberal democracy soon metamorphosed into sectarian and ethnic bloodshed. The spiraling of violence was inevitable. With it came the horrors of innocents caught in the crossfire, destruction of cities and towns, and civilians fleeing battlefields for safer havens. The myopia that gave us the invasion of Iraq and the continued Afghan war still reigns in DC. The very publicized death of Aylan Kurdi should dissuade Washington’s hegemonist, but it wont. Geopolitics trumps the destruction of a country and the suffering of its people.
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? Islam did. 1.5 Billion, Trillions of dollars in the coffers of rich Muslim nations, but five of the wealthiest Muslim countries have taken no Syrian refugees in at all, arguing that doing so would open them up to the risk of terrorism.Not since the Battle of Tours, no other massive Muslim invasion would be attempted north of the Pyrenees Mountains — until today through very different means. Now not a shot fired, but soon the Muslim call to prayer will replace the National Anthems of European countries.
18
First of all, If you are parents with small children, you don't try to cross the sea on a plastic boat.
Second, if you invite countries governed by dictators to become democratic, you can't refuse help to those who start an insurrection against dictators.
Third, you can't criticize Europeans for not doing enough, while America is doing nothing. Enough said.
Second, if you invite countries governed by dictators to become democratic, you can't refuse help to those who start an insurrection against dictators.
Third, you can't criticize Europeans for not doing enough, while America is doing nothing. Enough said.
6
This is doublespeak. Ross should know that "a few are guilty, but all are responsible." Who was, and who is, most responsible for the chaos?
Ross Douthat is, along with all the rest of us on planet earth. Some less than others.
Ross Douthat is, along with all the rest of us on planet earth. Some less than others.
2
The "countries that have opened the door widest" are not Germany or Sweden, but Turkey and Jordan, which have accepted not hundreds but millions of refugees.
7
It must be nice to get to pose a question like "Who failed Aylan Kurdi" and then use a column in the New York Times to not answer the question.
That said here's something from a book titled "Be Revolutionary: Some Thoughts from Pope Francis." It suggests a more responsible culprit:
On the War Industry
Recently I said and now I repeat, we are going through World War Three but in installments. There are economic systems that must make war in order to survive. Accordingly, arms are manufactured and sold and, with that, the balance sheets of economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money are clearly rendered healthy. And no thought is given to hungry children in refugee camps; no thought is given to the forcibly displaced; no thought is given to destroyed homes; no thought is given, finally, to so many destroyed lives. How much suffering, how much destruction, how much grief.
That said here's something from a book titled "Be Revolutionary: Some Thoughts from Pope Francis." It suggests a more responsible culprit:
On the War Industry
Recently I said and now I repeat, we are going through World War Three but in installments. There are economic systems that must make war in order to survive. Accordingly, arms are manufactured and sold and, with that, the balance sheets of economies that sacrifice man at the feet of the idol of money are clearly rendered healthy. And no thought is given to hungry children in refugee camps; no thought is given to the forcibly displaced; no thought is given to destroyed homes; no thought is given, finally, to so many destroyed lives. How much suffering, how much destruction, how much grief.
14
I do hope we will take in more than the 1500 refugees than we have to date,
but the political atmosphere in this country seems in opposition to our very
origins. We are all immigrants in America, and our history is one of generosity
and humane assistance to those less fortunate. Yet now we see anger, fear
and inhumanity expressed in the form of political misfits like Donald Trump,
who we know from his birtherism toward our President and his imbecilic
espousing of a great wall to keep Mexicans, et al, out that Mexico will pay for.??
In this summer of idiocy he is high in the polls - so what happened to us along
the way - where is our open arms for those less fortunate, 1500? c'mon America, get your mojo back - we need a sign , " We are all immigrants".
but the political atmosphere in this country seems in opposition to our very
origins. We are all immigrants in America, and our history is one of generosity
and humane assistance to those less fortunate. Yet now we see anger, fear
and inhumanity expressed in the form of political misfits like Donald Trump,
who we know from his birtherism toward our President and his imbecilic
espousing of a great wall to keep Mexicans, et al, out that Mexico will pay for.??
In this summer of idiocy he is high in the polls - so what happened to us along
the way - where is our open arms for those less fortunate, 1500? c'mon America, get your mojo back - we need a sign , " We are all immigrants".
1
The fact is that we have intervened in Syria, but with the aim of getting rid of Assad, which presumably would bring about the end of the conflict, but then again perhaps not. The fact is that we have fought also in Afghanistan, for 14 years now with no end in sight. That country is also generating refugees, a fact which we haven't discussed at all. We have no idea where those people were before they started washing up on Greek islands and made their way to Hungary. In fact how are they getting to Hungary? We don't know. Seems to me that the safest thing we can say about the whole crisis is how much we don't know about why we have failed to be bring peace and order to Afghanistan for 14 years, to Syria for 5 and to Iraq for 12 now. We don't know where these refugees have been and why suddenly now their goal is Germany. Why not France? Hmmmm. That's interesting. And it seems none of them declare the US as their goal. We don't know anything much other than that thousands of people are showing up on the European continent and demanding entry.
2
George W Bush killed Aylan Kurdi.
7
If there is a failure it is one of simply not following our hearts.All too often our hearts tell us one thing, our brain another. We juggle ideologies, religious concepts,political necessities, ethical and/or moral arguments in our attempts to rationalise our feelings.
Always, and in all ways, it is the children who suffer from our 'adult insensitivity.'
Yet, it is changing.More and more we are beginning to recognise the 'oneness' of humanity.
My mother-in-law (a wonderful old Norwegian) had a very simple philosophy, "eat first, we can argue afterwards."
In the face if this crisis our hearts say,eat first," then we can discuss the implications of the problem. What is the problem? In it's core it is simply being asked to share,without condition. Such a thing does not require definitions of them with whom we share. The willingness to share is a definition of who we are, not who they are.
Always, and in all ways, it is the children who suffer from our 'adult insensitivity.'
Yet, it is changing.More and more we are beginning to recognise the 'oneness' of humanity.
My mother-in-law (a wonderful old Norwegian) had a very simple philosophy, "eat first, we can argue afterwards."
In the face if this crisis our hearts say,eat first," then we can discuss the implications of the problem. What is the problem? In it's core it is simply being asked to share,without condition. Such a thing does not require definitions of them with whom we share. The willingness to share is a definition of who we are, not who they are.
Foreign policy is continuous. So when we change policy, we have no way of ending the bad results of past policy. So it is with Syria. We have long been an opponent of Syria and our role in the current disaster is less than meets the eye. We did not encourage Assad to crack down on dissent, and our efforts to aid opponents were late and relatively small. Sadly, our prior Iraq policy had a very large and unintended consequence in the rise if ISIS. Similarly, while we helped in Kaddafi’s removal, our relatively small involvement helped create the current mess.
So while Obama clearly wanted and wants to end much of our overseas adventures. Still the impact of the past remains. So surely we have a responsibility – and a much larger one than any one else.
So what do we do?
There is no political will to accept large numbers of refugees.
Period.
Especially not before a presidential election. For Democrats, to support more than token measures would be to give Republicans a winning campaign issue.
So while Obama clearly wanted and wants to end much of our overseas adventures. Still the impact of the past remains. So surely we have a responsibility – and a much larger one than any one else.
So what do we do?
There is no political will to accept large numbers of refugees.
Period.
Especially not before a presidential election. For Democrats, to support more than token measures would be to give Republicans a winning campaign issue.
33
Republicans never see a place that couldn't benefit from a military-imposed American style government; Democrats never see anyone suffering without urging that the 53% of Americans who pay income tax open their pockets even wider. Our moment in time has faded. People are fed up with the particular interventionism of both parties. How far back do you go to establish blame--Sykes and Picot? T E Lawrence? Stick your finger in a boiling pot and burn your hand.
2
The USA bears a primary responsibility for the conflagration in the Middle East. Why is it not offering to take its refugees? It has the most space and resources, yet all it does is criticise Europe.
5
Those most responsible are those who cheered on the Iraq invasion, which not only destabilized the region and generated ISIS, but undermined US moral authority and military options. Yet those same people are the first to turn their backs (while continuing to wave the flag).
7
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? Whoever opposed birth control in the 3rd world. Syria's population has grown from 10 million to 30 million people. Africa and the Middle East, which had 1/3 of the population of Europe in 1900, now have more than double Europe's population. Europe can no longer absorb such people. Europe and the rest of the developed world should generously fund refugee resettlement in Jordan and Turkey, and also generously fund birth control. Third-world countries that do not cooperate wholeheartedly with birth control efforts and empowering women to limit their own fertility should be subject to economic sanctions until they give 100% cooperation.
15
I should know better than to wander over into this exchange but anguish and frustration gets the better part of me. I have a lot of admiration for Ross Douthat, and like Safire before him, being of token political persuasion, he graces the pages of the NYT with facts, logic and reason as opposed to the willful blindness that characterizes much of the Sulzberger version of Pravda.
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? To begin with, let's dispense with the collective guilt assigned to countries, be they Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Turkey, Germany. Blame lies with individuals. And it lies with individuals who could have prevented it but chose to avert their eyes.
Sheer unmitigated evil exists in this world, and the sooner people of good will abandon their naive pretense otherwise the better off the world will be. Whether it is the body of a precious child washed up on a beach, or the death merchant casually enjoying lunch while discussing mutilating a baby for profit, the children always suffer at the hands of the henchmen.
At some point the wolves have to be separated from the sheep and the shepherds have to do their duty.
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? To begin with, let's dispense with the collective guilt assigned to countries, be they Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Turkey, Germany. Blame lies with individuals. And it lies with individuals who could have prevented it but chose to avert their eyes.
Sheer unmitigated evil exists in this world, and the sooner people of good will abandon their naive pretense otherwise the better off the world will be. Whether it is the body of a precious child washed up on a beach, or the death merchant casually enjoying lunch while discussing mutilating a baby for profit, the children always suffer at the hands of the henchmen.
At some point the wolves have to be separated from the sheep and the shepherds have to do their duty.
4
Syria and the intra-arab conflict are responsible for Aylan Kurdi's regrettable death. To foist the blame on the Western nations is unfair.
8
How did I know before I read a word that it had to be Obama's fault?
12
A somewhat nuanced column from Ross. Wow. Who'd a thunk it?
My adopted country of Austria certainly bears little to no responsibility for the Syrian problem. And yet Austrians are waiting at the train station to bring food to the refugees. The US (IMO) certainly a lot. Had we not started wars of choice in Afghanistan and Iraq, the ME would be a far different place today.
The idea of assimilation being a problem is just a dodge. In the related column by Nick Kristof there are even more historical revisionist comments than here (I'll give it time). "Yeah, but in the US the immigrants all previously assimilated." How demonstrably false. There has been a Chinatown in San Francisco for something like 160 years. There was a "little Italy" in NYC for about 100 years. etc. etc.
Here in the XI district in Vienna is a huge Turkish population. Turkish stores. There is a kebab stand every 50 meters. I live here with my Czech wife and half Austrian/half American son next door to a New Zealand/Austrian family. We brought some traditions with us. We take on some Austrian ones. Guess what? Austria and Austrian culture is doing just fine.
It is true that Austria has an advantage over the US in that German is the official language. All must have a basic proficiency to live and work here. That aside, there is no difference between now and (for example) the boatloads of Irish that arrived starving in the 1800's. America and American culture would do just fine.
My adopted country of Austria certainly bears little to no responsibility for the Syrian problem. And yet Austrians are waiting at the train station to bring food to the refugees. The US (IMO) certainly a lot. Had we not started wars of choice in Afghanistan and Iraq, the ME would be a far different place today.
The idea of assimilation being a problem is just a dodge. In the related column by Nick Kristof there are even more historical revisionist comments than here (I'll give it time). "Yeah, but in the US the immigrants all previously assimilated." How demonstrably false. There has been a Chinatown in San Francisco for something like 160 years. There was a "little Italy" in NYC for about 100 years. etc. etc.
Here in the XI district in Vienna is a huge Turkish population. Turkish stores. There is a kebab stand every 50 meters. I live here with my Czech wife and half Austrian/half American son next door to a New Zealand/Austrian family. We brought some traditions with us. We take on some Austrian ones. Guess what? Austria and Austrian culture is doing just fine.
It is true that Austria has an advantage over the US in that German is the official language. All must have a basic proficiency to live and work here. That aside, there is no difference between now and (for example) the boatloads of Irish that arrived starving in the 1800's. America and American culture would do just fine.
2
Afghanistan was not a war of choice. An organization based there had launched repeated attacks on the U.S., with 9/11 being the tipping point.
The faster rate of assimilation in the U.S. false, demonstrably or otherwise. It didn't take long to find a study showing that immigrants in the U.S. assimilated more quickly than in Europe, although more slowly than in Canada (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_64.htm). Little Italy, incidentally, despite splashy events like the San Gennaro festival, it a shadow of its former self demographically.
The faster rate of assimilation in the U.S. false, demonstrably or otherwise. It didn't take long to find a study showing that immigrants in the U.S. assimilated more quickly than in Europe, although more slowly than in Canada (http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/cr_64.htm). Little Italy, incidentally, despite splashy events like the San Gennaro festival, it a shadow of its former self demographically.
"A weaker-but-still-meaningful responsibility" of the US? Iraq "intervention"? How about a disastrous years long war, entirely based on lies? Notice the oh-so-very light skimming Mr.Douthat does to cover for Bush, Cheney and the Neoconservatives who bear a lot of responsibility for this disaster. Until this responsibility is openly acknowledged and some kind of amends made, karma will probably keep biting these people.
2
While no man is an island, it is also true that each person--and nation--bears responsiblity for its acts. The "west" did not create the al-Assads. The divisions and hatreds within Syrian society created them. Why should the "west" be responsible for the horrors the al-Assads has committed? It is neither just nor logical.
If the "west" refuses to accept the victims of the al-Assads, these people will be forced into Russia, Chian and Iran. Only when this happens--and the three countries backing the latest al-Assad are forced to confront the consequesces of their act--will the latest al-Assad fall. Perhaps Putin will offer Bashir al-Assad refuge in Russia, where he can share a villa with Yanukovich.
If the "west" refuses to accept the victims of the al-Assads, these people will be forced into Russia, Chian and Iran. Only when this happens--and the three countries backing the latest al-Assad are forced to confront the consequesces of their act--will the latest al-Assad fall. Perhaps Putin will offer Bashir al-Assad refuge in Russia, where he can share a villa with Yanukovich.
1
On the question of responsibility, the destabilisation of the region really began with the emphasis on ethnic-sectarian divisions which was an intentional focus under the mandate system. In states created across the region to serve the interests of occupying powers, majority populations were brought under the rule of minority sects in order to create dependencies among the artificial elites on those Western powers. In the case of Syria/Lebanon, it was France bringing the Alawite into the military hierarchy, which came to dominate, and in the case of Iraq it was Britain bringing in Sunni Hashemites which got the ball rolling. When the US gained primacy, she threw her weight behind the authoritarianisms that had necessarily resulted, and still actively supports some of the most egregious violators. (The role played by repeated invasions of Iraq, of course, is overly minimised here.)
The point being that we, collectively, do bear much of the structural responsibility for the way things have broken down, if not for the fact that they are broken, which presumption relies on a counterfactual.
So it's odd, seeing as the real question is one of moral obligation rather than actual responsibility, that you'd overlook the religious view.
Where is your consideration of this as a Catholic, which informs your opinion about the solutions to so many other social issues?
What would Catholic morality dictate is your responsibility and that of the worldwide community of Catholics?
The point being that we, collectively, do bear much of the structural responsibility for the way things have broken down, if not for the fact that they are broken, which presumption relies on a counterfactual.
So it's odd, seeing as the real question is one of moral obligation rather than actual responsibility, that you'd overlook the religious view.
Where is your consideration of this as a Catholic, which informs your opinion about the solutions to so many other social issues?
What would Catholic morality dictate is your responsibility and that of the worldwide community of Catholics?
2
Well at least it's not "Obama's fault" which would have been par for the course. But facts are annoying things and we actually know who is at fault. The ruinous GW Bush/neoconservative policies have led directly to this mess. Failing to realize that means that you would make the same mistakes again and again. Come on Mr. Douthat, confession is good for the soul. Finally, to accept our responsibility, we should take in on the order of 500,000 refugees/migrants here in the U.S.
5
Who? Obama, of course. His failure to act early on when Assad started his genocide leads you directly to the grave of Aylan Kurdi. No one should be fooled, the cowardice of O to not go to war takes you back to failure to act in Germany in the thirties. What the death of Aylan clearly shows is that the world now fully knows that America will never confront any person, group or state that openly commits genocide. This fact opens the way for many others to have no illusions that America will ever intervene. 'The cop has left the beat, forever'. Yes, Obama failed Aylan and the many others that he put into early graves.
1
No, he wouldn't have died on a beach had Obama unilaterally assaulted Syria. He would have died in the collateral damage from the "command and control center" in his town. Along with tens of thousands of others. Because they are in populated areas. Syria's small, and also they aren't so chivalrous (or stupid) as to put them in deserts with big targets spray painted on them.
Arguing who "should" help while people are dying seems to only justify doing nothing while arguing. Germany had over 82 million citizens in 2014, France 66 million, US 318 million. Has any country determined what percentage of immigrants can be absorbed without making the host country "unstable"? I am pretty sure all the countries could absorb say 0.5% of their total without any cultural instability. And citing the right wing fascists in Sweden, or anti-immigrant thugs that burn refugee stations as evidence of instability should include the US and it's long standing racist and anti immigrant groups as well. There will always be xenophobia and politicians willing to fan it's dangerous flames to their own personal advantage. This is another example of badly considered US meddling with no true responsibility for the outcomes generated. Our tax dollars doing stupid stuff. That should be printed on our motto.
It all started from the days of Cold War and Ronald Regan. When Soviets invaded Afghanistan, Regan created Taliban, remember the movie "Charlie Wilson's War" by Mike Nichols. Then Osama bin Laden was also created by Taliban/ USA. After 1989 Soviet's withdrew from Afghanistan, that place become no man's land. Osama bin Laden started planning 9/11. They ware training for two years or more in USA and CIA/FBI was sleeping. Soon after US response of 9/11 to Afghanistan, W 43rd started Iraq war for no apparent reason. No WMD was found in Iraq.
2
I hate to interrupt your dreams but it was Carter who started the ball rolling on the Soviets in Afghanistan. Boycotted an Olympics over it, though what good that did I never could tell.
So where does it stop?
The Middle East is a mess, and Africa is worse. Why does this become the United States' battle to fight?
If the Middle East cannot straighten out its own problems, shame on those countries. They have the money, they have the cultural ties, they share the religious traditions, languages, and social mores. If Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Emirates do not care, why should we?
We have run out of money. We cannot afford to take these people in, unless we are prepared to shred the safety nets for our own citizens.
The Middle East is a mess, and Africa is worse. Why does this become the United States' battle to fight?
If the Middle East cannot straighten out its own problems, shame on those countries. They have the money, they have the cultural ties, they share the religious traditions, languages, and social mores. If Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and Emirates do not care, why should we?
We have run out of money. We cannot afford to take these people in, unless we are prepared to shred the safety nets for our own citizens.
2
Mr Douthat's argument seems to go like this:
1) The Gulf states and the US have the greatest moral obligation to act in this crisis, given their varying degrees of involvement in it.
2) However, it is countries with much less moral obligation to act that are, in fact, actually doing something about it.
3) But taking such action is bad idea due to its long-term political implications.
This leaves the reader to infer that: The US and the Gulf countries are justified in their inaction.
Since he doesn't answer the question he poses in the title of the piece, or even make a feint at doing so, I'll suggest one that actually fits: "Are Germany and Sweden suckers for helping refugees?" Mr. Douthat's answer seems to ‘Yes.’
I find it strange to reduce the big picture issues here to prudence vs. idealism when US policy in the Middle East since at least 1953 has rarely put either concept at the heart of its decision-making.
While perhaps no one in particular can be blamed directly for the specific tragedy of Aylan Kurdi, this argument—which conflates moral reasoning with political exigencies—really misses the entire point of why people are so moved by this image and the story it brought to our attention, which is that sometimes something so terrible happens that it reminds us that we understand on a deep level that doing the right thing is sometimes more important than acting in a politically expedient fashion.
1) The Gulf states and the US have the greatest moral obligation to act in this crisis, given their varying degrees of involvement in it.
2) However, it is countries with much less moral obligation to act that are, in fact, actually doing something about it.
3) But taking such action is bad idea due to its long-term political implications.
This leaves the reader to infer that: The US and the Gulf countries are justified in their inaction.
Since he doesn't answer the question he poses in the title of the piece, or even make a feint at doing so, I'll suggest one that actually fits: "Are Germany and Sweden suckers for helping refugees?" Mr. Douthat's answer seems to ‘Yes.’
I find it strange to reduce the big picture issues here to prudence vs. idealism when US policy in the Middle East since at least 1953 has rarely put either concept at the heart of its decision-making.
While perhaps no one in particular can be blamed directly for the specific tragedy of Aylan Kurdi, this argument—which conflates moral reasoning with political exigencies—really misses the entire point of why people are so moved by this image and the story it brought to our attention, which is that sometimes something so terrible happens that it reminds us that we understand on a deep level that doing the right thing is sometimes more important than acting in a politically expedient fashion.
79
As one refugee in Hungary was quoted by media outlets, "Where is the UN? Where are human rights?" Indeed, let us make haste in attending to the needs of these fellow humans.
The freedom of conscience, which in turn inspires those of political free speech and freedom of religion, is key to allowing multiple worldviews to coexist, mostly peacefully, in modern society. Herein lies the great historic opportunity to convey the lessons of the Enlightenment to the Islamic world, which until now has seen modernity as only a threat.
Islam, in its original formulation and continued forms, would place that faith in supreme authority over all, politically, socially, religiously, and even historically. This runs directly counter to the freedom of conscience, and drives the ongoing violence. Yet we have the irony that millions of mostly Muslims must flee Islam to modern nation states in order to see their human rights respected. What better statement could there be, what better historical lesson, than that of accepting and welcoming them, in order to begin, finally, the conversations needed to start a transition of Islam from ancient tribal belief into something workable for today's world, a faith that can once and for all overcome its limitations and allow for true peaceful coexistence with others.
The freedom of conscience, which in turn inspires those of political free speech and freedom of religion, is key to allowing multiple worldviews to coexist, mostly peacefully, in modern society. Herein lies the great historic opportunity to convey the lessons of the Enlightenment to the Islamic world, which until now has seen modernity as only a threat.
Islam, in its original formulation and continued forms, would place that faith in supreme authority over all, politically, socially, religiously, and even historically. This runs directly counter to the freedom of conscience, and drives the ongoing violence. Yet we have the irony that millions of mostly Muslims must flee Islam to modern nation states in order to see their human rights respected. What better statement could there be, what better historical lesson, than that of accepting and welcoming them, in order to begin, finally, the conversations needed to start a transition of Islam from ancient tribal belief into something workable for today's world, a faith that can once and for all overcome its limitations and allow for true peaceful coexistence with others.
If the UN was less of a left-wing third world mouthpiece, they might be doing more to alleviate the terrible conditions compelling the massive immigration levels.
2
'But it’s also reasonable to worry that by accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees on a continent already struggling with assimilation, and making itself a magnet for still more, Germany is failing in its obligations to its own.'
What a terrible conservative excuse for failing humans!
What a terrible conservative excuse for failing humans!
2
"Nations that are directly implicated in Syria’s agony have more responsibility to accept refugees than nations that are not. The strongest obligation would belong to those countries — the Gulf States and Iran, above all — who have fed arms and money into the Syrian conflict"
Yes, but these are nations ruled by conservatives, and we all know how conservatives deal with responsibility-It's something to be loudly and piously demanded of others, rather than something that conservatives actually practice.
Yes, but these are nations ruled by conservatives, and we all know how conservatives deal with responsibility-It's something to be loudly and piously demanded of others, rather than something that conservatives actually practice.
1
Mr. Douthat, our Middle-East failures and obligation is much more than the disastrous war raging in Syria. It started with President G. H. Bush acting as a pawn for his Saudi oil buddies in Desert Storm in Kuwait. That began the takedown of Saddam Hussain who was the wild card counter balance to Iran and its supporters.
Then President G. W. Bush continued his fathers failed foreign policy and started the more disastrous Iraq War, removed Hussain and plunged Iraq into chaos.
The Afghan War, although started for the right purpose, became just another never ending, disastrous failure for us and our allies when we changed its focus from destroying terrorists to nation building.
We and our European allies took a page right out of the Old British Empire play book and actually believed we could impose our morals, customs, culture and governance on the peoples of Iraq, Afghanistan and other Middle-East nations.
Then with chaos raging in Afghanistan, Iraq and across many other Arab nations and a completely destabilized region, we backed and supported Assad's enemies in Syria which allowed for the growth of ISIS, backed by Iran, and no one to counter balance ISIS. All while our "good" allies in the Gulf States did absolutely nothing because they know they have their American pawns and its saber rattling Republicans all ready to come to their defense.
That's how his mess started. We and our European allies caused it and not we have an obligation to help these war refugees!
Then President G. W. Bush continued his fathers failed foreign policy and started the more disastrous Iraq War, removed Hussain and plunged Iraq into chaos.
The Afghan War, although started for the right purpose, became just another never ending, disastrous failure for us and our allies when we changed its focus from destroying terrorists to nation building.
We and our European allies took a page right out of the Old British Empire play book and actually believed we could impose our morals, customs, culture and governance on the peoples of Iraq, Afghanistan and other Middle-East nations.
Then with chaos raging in Afghanistan, Iraq and across many other Arab nations and a completely destabilized region, we backed and supported Assad's enemies in Syria which allowed for the growth of ISIS, backed by Iran, and no one to counter balance ISIS. All while our "good" allies in the Gulf States did absolutely nothing because they know they have their American pawns and its saber rattling Republicans all ready to come to their defense.
That's how his mess started. We and our European allies caused it and not we have an obligation to help these war refugees!
2
ISIS is not backed by Iran. ISIS is primarily made up of Sunni Muslims who think that Shiites (most Iranians are Shiites) are apostates who should be killed.
1
His father failed him. Took him from the safety of a flat in Istanbul and took him on a boat without a life jacket. Enough said.
9
What do you know about the 'safety' of that flat in Istanbul, or the original places any of these people are fleeing from? Do you really think this tide of humanity are all leaving their homes and making this dangerous journey with their children if they're not looking for a safer existence? Maybe you should spend 5 seconds imagining that you were born into their circumstances, and have to decide what is best for your children.
1
Have no fear of sacred cows, allow me to point out two equally guilty parties in this sordid affair :
1/The Bush Junior Administration who perpetuated the crime of ILLEGALLY invading and occupying the sovereign state of Iraq, triggering an unstoppable domino effect of chaos and destruction responsible for both the violent extremism of such régimes as Assad's or Al-Sissi, for example, as well as the irresistible rise of the Islamic State ;
2/Saudi Arabia--not so innocent allies of the Bush clique. The Saudis are both a source of ideological fodder for the Islamic State's brand of take-no-prisoners style of Islamic expansion and a reliable banker for these homicidal maniacs.
I have no illusions regarding justice. Formal justice systems at every level are too anemic and politically tainted to help the beleaguered civilian populations in the old Levant inspired by dreams of an unrealistically golden exile in Europe. I do not know how Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld can sleep at night nor their overnourished friends in Riyadh.
1/The Bush Junior Administration who perpetuated the crime of ILLEGALLY invading and occupying the sovereign state of Iraq, triggering an unstoppable domino effect of chaos and destruction responsible for both the violent extremism of such régimes as Assad's or Al-Sissi, for example, as well as the irresistible rise of the Islamic State ;
2/Saudi Arabia--not so innocent allies of the Bush clique. The Saudis are both a source of ideological fodder for the Islamic State's brand of take-no-prisoners style of Islamic expansion and a reliable banker for these homicidal maniacs.
I have no illusions regarding justice. Formal justice systems at every level are too anemic and politically tainted to help the beleaguered civilian populations in the old Levant inspired by dreams of an unrealistically golden exile in Europe. I do not know how Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld can sleep at night nor their overnourished friends in Riyadh.
8
Mr. Douthat missed Canada's responsibility for Aylan's fate. His aunt in Canada asked the local authorities to accept the Kurdi family as refugees. However, the application was buried by the Canadian bureaucracy. That is the whole story of Aylan.
1
"Countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia are basically accepting no refugees."
Funny thing about that. The Gulf states have never been too generous with other Arabs they claim to support, like the Palestinians. They import large numbers of male refinery workers for one side of the country and female household servants for the other, but they don't allow immigration. Nice.
Funny thing about that. The Gulf states have never been too generous with other Arabs they claim to support, like the Palestinians. They import large numbers of male refinery workers for one side of the country and female household servants for the other, but they don't allow immigration. Nice.
6
Click the link Mr. Douthat provides to the startling story about how what is now the most popular party in Sweden has neo-nazi roots. Here is what it says: "An anti-immigration party with roots in the neo-Nazi movement has become Sweden's most popular political party ... . The populist group has seen its support surge ... largely on the back of growing disquiet about the country’s generous asylum policies." This is Sweden we're talking about. Sweden! The sad truth is that surges of immigrants across borders, especially at times such as now in Europe when economies are faltering, always benefits the far right, creating a backlash that brings neo-nazis from the fringes into parliament. Along with the rest of humanity, my heart broke when I saw the toddler laying face down in the surf. But this problem from hell won't be solved by simply letting masses of people into Europe (although if that is going to happen, why let Russia off the hook since Russia is the European country most responsible for propping up Assad and, thereby, stalemating the Syrian civil war?)
9
This is a far more eloquent argument for sealing borders than your own Mr. Trump has made. But the eloquence does not, in my view, carry a higher level of moral clarity.
3
Ross: Kindly ask NYT to publish the websites of appropriate charities after each refugee article We all need to help, even in a small way. A small, monthly
contribution through UNICEF or other organizations will be of real help.
UNICEF is especially dear to the hearts of New Yorkers as so many of us have
known family and friends who have devoted their lives and labor to the U.N.
contribution through UNICEF or other organizations will be of real help.
UNICEF is especially dear to the hearts of New Yorkers as so many of us have
known family and friends who have devoted their lives and labor to the U.N.
2
"It seems reasonable to believe that by accepting so very, very few refugees — only 1,500 so far — from a conflict our Middle Eastern misadventures worsened, the United States is failing in its obligations to the Syrian people." That one sentence is your article, Ross. The rest is moral camouflage. Have you already forgotten Colin Powell's "You break it. You bought it." warning?
5
Like it or not the Middle east was a stable area until about 2003.That is when we rushed into a war that was based on lies and had ulterior motives (oi). We opened the gates for the radical groups to take control. We supported a corrupt iraq government, and allowed Al Queda , and later ISIS, to become the main players. It was already too late when the war with Assad began. The main rebels were not peace loving freedom fighters, they were battle hardened Radicals. They took all the weapons and the money feeding the war from the Sunni Arab states and became the force we now fear. Their military leadership is the one we dismantled when we overthrew Saddam. Their weapons were given to them by the Iraq Army we sent billions on.
Then there is the fact that Russia and Iran are feeding the conflict by supporting Assad as is the Sunni players supporting the "rebel" radicals. Basically, most of the western world and many Middle east states are responsible. The millions suffering will not go away, they will keep coming and demand that we hellp .
Then there is the fact that Russia and Iran are feeding the conflict by supporting Assad as is the Sunni players supporting the "rebel" radicals. Basically, most of the western world and many Middle east states are responsible. The millions suffering will not go away, they will keep coming and demand that we hellp .
2
Mr Douthat,
For once you are right on an issue, because rather than apply ideology, you have applied some common sense. Yes, as a European let me tell you: it ain't easy to say "let's help." The right-wingers on the continent are rubbing their hands because they can now pull out the old posters that say "Das Boot ist voll" The boat is full... I hope we will weather that rhetorical storm. In February 2014, the Swiss fell for the nonsense of the People's Party here (I live in CH)... bad sign, but the Swiss have always been a little conservative on the inside, a country founded by farmers.
Having said that: you mention rightly that Qatar and others are not taking their own people, Arabs, Muslims... My heavens. So why do WE have to take them.... Simple answer: To show that our free democracies, where people are not beheaded or dismembered for crimes, where you can come and go between religions as you please, where you can blog whatever you want, even the greatest bilge, are still THE BEST, and that we are not run by age-old creaky Sheikhs and dynasties, whose sole claim to fame is having had British petrologists poke a hole in the ground to find oil. (Had we been smarter with our mobility choices, they would be swimming in oil and we would have clean air...)
Now: please tell that to the Koch Bros, since they seem to be in your camp, because that is how they became wealthy and powerful and that seems to be what they want for our country.
For once you are right on an issue, because rather than apply ideology, you have applied some common sense. Yes, as a European let me tell you: it ain't easy to say "let's help." The right-wingers on the continent are rubbing their hands because they can now pull out the old posters that say "Das Boot ist voll" The boat is full... I hope we will weather that rhetorical storm. In February 2014, the Swiss fell for the nonsense of the People's Party here (I live in CH)... bad sign, but the Swiss have always been a little conservative on the inside, a country founded by farmers.
Having said that: you mention rightly that Qatar and others are not taking their own people, Arabs, Muslims... My heavens. So why do WE have to take them.... Simple answer: To show that our free democracies, where people are not beheaded or dismembered for crimes, where you can come and go between religions as you please, where you can blog whatever you want, even the greatest bilge, are still THE BEST, and that we are not run by age-old creaky Sheikhs and dynasties, whose sole claim to fame is having had British petrologists poke a hole in the ground to find oil. (Had we been smarter with our mobility choices, they would be swimming in oil and we would have clean air...)
Now: please tell that to the Koch Bros, since they seem to be in your camp, because that is how they became wealthy and powerful and that seems to be what they want for our country.
9
What happened in Iraq where the US could have gotten rid of Saddam? Sad to say the machinations of our intelligence agencies put him in power because we were terrified of the Moslem clerics. I am too, but Saddam? No, Americans could have gotten him out but the American psychology is obsession with power and control of the air you breath. and marijuana is the least of it. Many loyal Baathists would probably have been happy to see him go, but no, we freedom loving hypocrites insist on having our own psychopaths managing things. So who is making money off this? Obviously the right people and this goes right to the heart of the American political system wanting Trump in there over the "right people". They are fed up with lies and deceit and using the Trump issue the way a terrorist uses a bomb. The media is starting to admit that there is a pile of garbage that is viscerally similar to that piling up in the streets of Beirut.
2
There are two sides to this issue. They are both right.
One side says we have to take all refugees in, it's the human thing to do.
The other says that you will destroy the fabric of european society if you massively let in all the desperate or poor people who want to come to Europe. (Some may like not to hear it but people actually resent it when what they consider a different culture takes root in their country).
The only way out of this conumdrum is to take in the refugees from the war in Syria AND to deal with the crisis in Syria. Dealing with the crisis in Syria was the right thing to do when ISIS was invading Kobani, when Assad was barrel-bombing his population. Now dealing with the crisis in Syria is a survival thing for Europe (and not only from the refugee crisis, but also from the havoc ISIS is inducing within European societies).
One side says we have to take all refugees in, it's the human thing to do.
The other says that you will destroy the fabric of european society if you massively let in all the desperate or poor people who want to come to Europe. (Some may like not to hear it but people actually resent it when what they consider a different culture takes root in their country).
The only way out of this conumdrum is to take in the refugees from the war in Syria AND to deal with the crisis in Syria. Dealing with the crisis in Syria was the right thing to do when ISIS was invading Kobani, when Assad was barrel-bombing his population. Now dealing with the crisis in Syria is a survival thing for Europe (and not only from the refugee crisis, but also from the havoc ISIS is inducing within European societies).
1
Mr.Douthat, you said : "But it’s also reasonable to worry that by accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees on a continent already struggling with assimilation, and making itself a magnet for still more, Germany is failing in its obligations to its own."
However, you forget the reality could long-term be the opposite.
In 30-40 years, Germany - which had no "baby boom" in 1945-50, but in fact a "baby bust", could see its population decline by 25% from 80 million to 60 million. As this occurs, its workforce will decline to under 40% of its population. Non-working dependents will rise to over 60% - mainly elderly, as the school age population will also decline by 25%.
Against such a scenario, attracting a large army of mainly young men with some child-bearing age women could help boost Germany's population once more.
It's worthing noting, too, that - from the TV interviews - a quite large number of the current flow of refugees speak good English and seem well-educated.
There could likely therefore be a strong element of self-interest in Germany's welcome.
However, you forget the reality could long-term be the opposite.
In 30-40 years, Germany - which had no "baby boom" in 1945-50, but in fact a "baby bust", could see its population decline by 25% from 80 million to 60 million. As this occurs, its workforce will decline to under 40% of its population. Non-working dependents will rise to over 60% - mainly elderly, as the school age population will also decline by 25%.
Against such a scenario, attracting a large army of mainly young men with some child-bearing age women could help boost Germany's population once more.
It's worthing noting, too, that - from the TV interviews - a quite large number of the current flow of refugees speak good English and seem well-educated.
There could likely therefore be a strong element of self-interest in Germany's welcome.
The US failed the Syrian people the moment it pulled out of going against Assad for using chemical weapons on his people.
Gaddafi was a criminal but he didn't bomb his own people, he never attacked them the way that Assad did yet the world chose to fight him because they had interests in dividing Libya.
Since Assad guaranteed the protection of Israel, the West allowed him to stay even though it was proved time and time again how he bombed his people.
Until Assad is deposed of, the situation in Syria will not improve.
Gaddafi was a criminal but he didn't bomb his own people, he never attacked them the way that Assad did yet the world chose to fight him because they had interests in dividing Libya.
Since Assad guaranteed the protection of Israel, the West allowed him to stay even though it was proved time and time again how he bombed his people.
Until Assad is deposed of, the situation in Syria will not improve.
2
Wrong. Gaddafi was bombing his own people which was the rationale for our going in there.
1
"But it’s also reasonable to worry that by accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees on a continent already struggling with assimilation, and making itself a magnet for still more, Germany is failing in its obligations to its own."
Germany has given an unequivocal green light to massive immigration right now. What will Europe do as the waves of people, especially from Africa which will have extraordinary population growth without the accompanying GDP growth, when those waves of people begin to number in the tens of millions?
Germany has given an unequivocal green light to massive immigration right now. What will Europe do as the waves of people, especially from Africa which will have extraordinary population growth without the accompanying GDP growth, when those waves of people begin to number in the tens of millions?
1
Clearly there is more than enough blame here to be shared around. However, folks in the States need to understand the key role of the near-complete absence of a coherent foreign policy in this White House. This is not just about Syria or the larger Mid-East. The deliberate withdrawal of American leadership in every, and it is every, region of the world has created power vaccums which are being filled by vicious ruthless men.
These areas of growing unrest and crisis stretch from the South China Sea through Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria to Venezuela. Many others could be added to the list.
As unrest and crisis spread, the tide of desperate migrants and refugees will grow. Things are going to get much worse.
As the economic and material damage grows, all our efforts to deal with global warming, water and food security, energy security, etc. will come to naught. You can't repair a house when it's burning down. This should be obvious.
Those who think that this world does not need police, just as any large city does, are shallow and naive. Take a look at the movie "The Children of Men." That is our future, unless the US and NATO begin to exercise responsible leadership.
These areas of growing unrest and crisis stretch from the South China Sea through Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Ukraine, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria to Venezuela. Many others could be added to the list.
As unrest and crisis spread, the tide of desperate migrants and refugees will grow. Things are going to get much worse.
As the economic and material damage grows, all our efforts to deal with global warming, water and food security, energy security, etc. will come to naught. You can't repair a house when it's burning down. This should be obvious.
Those who think that this world does not need police, just as any large city does, are shallow and naive. Take a look at the movie "The Children of Men." That is our future, unless the US and NATO begin to exercise responsible leadership.
1
I live in a working class area in Finland where these refugees have been settling for years. The current wave will reach me in a couple of months.
I already know the societal outcome and it will replay the old mechanism of history. First there is a long period of peace that lulls the elite into gullible romanticism: the Belle Époque, the Jazz Age, the Clinton Years.
Then the reality intrudes, the elite denies it, all hell breaks loose and the power goes to politicians who promise order.
A very telling detail is the actual story of the drowned little boy. His father was already safe and working in Turkey, but he wanted to immigrate to Canada, so he took his family into an inflatable boat over the Mediterranean.
This story is commonly known and even openly reported, but it has no effect. The picture of the dead infant is considered to be the new napalm girl of Vietnam. Nobody cares that in this case the father was the one playing with gasoline and matches.
I already know the societal outcome and it will replay the old mechanism of history. First there is a long period of peace that lulls the elite into gullible romanticism: the Belle Époque, the Jazz Age, the Clinton Years.
Then the reality intrudes, the elite denies it, all hell breaks loose and the power goes to politicians who promise order.
A very telling detail is the actual story of the drowned little boy. His father was already safe and working in Turkey, but he wanted to immigrate to Canada, so he took his family into an inflatable boat over the Mediterranean.
This story is commonly known and even openly reported, but it has no effect. The picture of the dead infant is considered to be the new napalm girl of Vietnam. Nobody cares that in this case the father was the one playing with gasoline and matches.
7
There are very real reasons that our better presidents warned against foreign entanglements and the rise of the military industrial complex. As we become more involved in these wars we are wrestling with the legendary tar baby and becoming sullied.
Much better to lead by example by lifting our own people out of poverty and running a truly just society were all can flourish rather trampling on others rights while supplying killing weapons to anyone who has the cash. We were responsible for over 200,000 Iraqi civilian deaths giving a certain truth to the 'ugly american' moniker.
We should be the shining city on the hill to which others aspire. We can help those who want to reform their own nations by supplying the framework other societies can use to build improve their own lot and give financial support if we deem it appropriate. We cross an ethical line when we intervene in order to improve our own status at the expense of others.
Aylan Kurdi's death was the result of years of drought that culminated in migrations from rural impoverished areas to cities that could not or would not cope with them. In desperation his family risked all in an effort to survive. Political machinations have worsened it but the ultimate responsibility is that of all humanity, not only those who have a little more money. We need to give tools to those in need, not money.
Mans inhumanity to man. Not much new under the sun. Rowanda, Cambodia, WWII, Syria.
Much better to lead by example by lifting our own people out of poverty and running a truly just society were all can flourish rather trampling on others rights while supplying killing weapons to anyone who has the cash. We were responsible for over 200,000 Iraqi civilian deaths giving a certain truth to the 'ugly american' moniker.
We should be the shining city on the hill to which others aspire. We can help those who want to reform their own nations by supplying the framework other societies can use to build improve their own lot and give financial support if we deem it appropriate. We cross an ethical line when we intervene in order to improve our own status at the expense of others.
Aylan Kurdi's death was the result of years of drought that culminated in migrations from rural impoverished areas to cities that could not or would not cope with them. In desperation his family risked all in an effort to survive. Political machinations have worsened it but the ultimate responsibility is that of all humanity, not only those who have a little more money. We need to give tools to those in need, not money.
Mans inhumanity to man. Not much new under the sun. Rowanda, Cambodia, WWII, Syria.
1
I generally appreciate reading Ross Douthat, but what a slick and ugly column this one is. Yes, you can wonder all day long what it means "to accept refugees at a pace one's own society cannot reasonably bear." That of course is the very argument by every xenophobe anywhere, where everyone gets to decide for himself what "reasonable" really means: "I am not against refugees, but you know, the boat is already full." OK, so let's go and count: how many refugees are there in Germany today, especially in the xenophobe East? And accepting 1 million in a country of 80 million? Can you do percentage? It won't make a dent in anything in Germany, not even the budget surplus.
No, Ross Douthat, this is not a column you should be proud of, while Germany is doing exactly the right thing.
No, Ross Douthat, this is not a column you should be proud of, while Germany is doing exactly the right thing.
1
As Ross Douthat splits moral and political hairs, Angela Merkel has stepped up to the plate and done the right thing by accepting up to 800,000 migrants.
Douthat would have us believe that the Angela Merkel, who recently committed a horrible humanitarian -- and political -- blunder by suggesting to the 14 year old star Palestinian pupil, Reem Sahwil, in the gym of a German gymnasium: "Tough, we may have to deport you and your family back to Lebanon where you came from because we Germans have 'our own' to think of," that this was the prudent Angela Merkel, looking out for the interests of the Germans.
While the Angela Merkel who has done a volte face -- completely incomprehensible to anyone with Republican sympathies who know that mmigrants only "dilute the native stock" -- and is single-handedly determining that Germany will accept at least 800,000 refugees, is the imprudent Angela Merkel.
Huzzah for Angela Merkel! May she get the Nobel Peace Prize she richly deserves.
And may Ross Douthat collect his prize for sophistical Republican Pontius Pilatism.
Richly deserved, Ross, and destined to be megaphoned into the coming week's news cycle by all of those nativist stalwarts at FoxNews.
By the fruits of their 30,000 foot punditry -- "I got mine handed to me as a birthright (must have been my superior genes); now good luck struggling for yours" -- ye shall know them.
Douthat would have us believe that the Angela Merkel, who recently committed a horrible humanitarian -- and political -- blunder by suggesting to the 14 year old star Palestinian pupil, Reem Sahwil, in the gym of a German gymnasium: "Tough, we may have to deport you and your family back to Lebanon where you came from because we Germans have 'our own' to think of," that this was the prudent Angela Merkel, looking out for the interests of the Germans.
While the Angela Merkel who has done a volte face -- completely incomprehensible to anyone with Republican sympathies who know that mmigrants only "dilute the native stock" -- and is single-handedly determining that Germany will accept at least 800,000 refugees, is the imprudent Angela Merkel.
Huzzah for Angela Merkel! May she get the Nobel Peace Prize she richly deserves.
And may Ross Douthat collect his prize for sophistical Republican Pontius Pilatism.
Richly deserved, Ross, and destined to be megaphoned into the coming week's news cycle by all of those nativist stalwarts at FoxNews.
By the fruits of their 30,000 foot punditry -- "I got mine handed to me as a birthright (must have been my superior genes); now good luck struggling for yours" -- ye shall know them.
1
Your laments about the Syrian war are a year or two too late. The Israeli's, the Saudi's, and our various self-directed military groups all started the war to get rid of Mr. Assad. With their usual lack of foresight they never managed to come up with an intelligent strategy for dealing with the collection of misbegotten forces that evolved. Now, having created millions of refugees, and dispersed them into makeshift camps, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and our military agencies are shedding huge crocodile tears over the drowning refugees that we are responsible for bringing into being, as if we and our Israeli/Saudi allies had no responsibility for the mess we have made in Syria (and Iraq as well). Your criticisms were needed two years ago when they might have had some effect, but better late than never.
1
The answer is actually clear, but most Americans are unwilling to embrace it. You ignore the one option that works--American troops on the ground. We should never have left Iraq. The entire region was relatively stable before our withdrawal from Iraq. The evidence is overwhelming that President Obama wanted our troops out of Iraq, regardless of what the Iraqis wanted, and regardless of the consequences. Never did a majority of Iraqis want American troops out immediately, but even if they had, the United States had a moral obligation to remain and ensure stability. We have four choices in Arab countries with oppressive dictators like Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad. One, prop up or tolerate the dictator and consign the people to perpetual oppression. Two, leave the people to rebel on their own, like we did in Syria, which will result in a vacuum and a humanitarian disaster of epic proportions. Three, topple the government from a distance and then leave the locals to put together pieces like we did in Libya, which will also create a vacuum and a disaster. Or four, depose the dictator with US troops and stay until the country is stabilized and can govern itself, like we did in Germany and Japan, and were doing in Iraq. The country will have ongoing problems, but these problems pale when compared to the other options.
1
As phony as a two dollar bill!
Douthat is apparently oblivious of the role the US has played with Turkey, the Gulf states and Israel in arming, training and financing the jihadis instigating regime change in Syria. The US has many options to cutting off the lifelines to Turkey especially which is probably playing the most conspicuous role in aiding ISIS.
All pressure possible must be brought to bear on Turkey... and US Isis "czar" Gen Allen must be fired immediately for colluding with Turkish PM Erdogan, a key ISIS ally.
The rest is all crocodile tears about war refugees fleeing from a war cooked up largely in Washington.
All pressure possible must be brought to bear on Turkey... and US Isis "czar" Gen Allen must be fired immediately for colluding with Turkish PM Erdogan, a key ISIS ally.
The rest is all crocodile tears about war refugees fleeing from a war cooked up largely in Washington.
No surprise here, Similar refugee problems developed from partition of Palestine and current Israeli state. Today 5.4 million Palestinians are labeled permanent refugees and protected by UNWRA . US cotributes hundreds of million to maintain these people with food, education and shelter. Many live in refugee camps that are minimally habitable. Why after sixty-seven years? Because countries surrounding Israel refuse to permanently settle the Palestinians, and Israel does nothing to ease their plight.
So who would expect any different with the Syrians?Countries that should be absorbing the millions of Syrian refugees are Russia and Iran that ecourage and aid and abet Mr. Assad. Not a word said about their assistance.
Why Mr. Douthat wants to make the mess in Syria a US problem is beyond me. What we have failled to do is sever ties with Turkey and recognize the Kurdish state. We are so afraid of angering Turkey we let the Kurds bear the brunt of the fighting but supply them with limited arms and training. Why?
So who would expect any different with the Syrians?Countries that should be absorbing the millions of Syrian refugees are Russia and Iran that ecourage and aid and abet Mr. Assad. Not a word said about their assistance.
Why Mr. Douthat wants to make the mess in Syria a US problem is beyond me. What we have failled to do is sever ties with Turkey and recognize the Kurdish state. We are so afraid of angering Turkey we let the Kurds bear the brunt of the fighting but supply them with limited arms and training. Why?
2
3-year-old Aylan Kurdi’s lifeless body washing up on a Greek island should be another “redline” that has been crossed by Bashar al-Assad and his sponsors in Tehran and Moscow. President Obama will probably let this one pass too and express regret after he has left office for not having done more to stop the massacre in Syria – much like President Clinton expressed remorse over Rwanda after he had left the White House. Justice delayed is justice denied but this is not even about justice anymore, it is about compassion and humanity.
Mr. Douthat laments, “There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear.” Moral obligations always come at a steep cost – WWII and the Holocaust should have taught us that lesson. There never is a convenient time to do the right thing and for western nations to expect materially wealthy “Countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia” to act morally in this regard is a fantasy. So while we might not want to get militarily involved in the Middle East for the rest of this century, we still need to show leadership there from a humanitarian standpoint. Yes, all lives matter!
Mr. Douthat laments, “There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear.” Moral obligations always come at a steep cost – WWII and the Holocaust should have taught us that lesson. There never is a convenient time to do the right thing and for western nations to expect materially wealthy “Countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia” to act morally in this regard is a fantasy. So while we might not want to get militarily involved in the Middle East for the rest of this century, we still need to show leadership there from a humanitarian standpoint. Yes, all lives matter!
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
3
When that poem was written, the US had a population well below 100 million.
Things have changed. Also, the poem is by a left wing poet, and it was added to the Statue of Liberty many years after it was built.
We are full up now -- we have droughts -- we can't provide jobs or even health care to all of our OWN citizens. We are not the savior of the world, and it's time to stop saying we are.
Things have changed. Also, the poem is by a left wing poet, and it was added to the Statue of Liberty many years after it was built.
We are full up now -- we have droughts -- we can't provide jobs or even health care to all of our OWN citizens. We are not the savior of the world, and it's time to stop saying we are.
In reading today the memoirs of Ishmael Beah born in Sierra Leone, one of the poorest countries in the world, and how he became a 'Toy Soldier' at 12, my heart started pounding when he leaves his village with his brother and best friend to listen to some music and never comes home again. He will not see his parents again. This he tells in the first few chapters of his life story and I am afraid to continue this journey of his.
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? Humanity did. Let us reconsider.
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? Humanity did. Let us reconsider.
We all failed Alan Kurdi, as we have forgotten the good samaritan's wisdom: love your neighbor as you love yourself. That we do not love ourselves (please do not confuse things with narcissism) in this day and age, running as we are after immediate satisfaction and material toys, seems true. That we have become passive 'voyeurs' of an upside-down world, as long as it doesn't touch us personally, true as well. Our humanity has been lost in the process; an empty shell remains... somehow (vainly) hoping for redemption.
As the old saying goes ... Not my circus not my monkeys ... Or as I like to say, we have no dog in that fight.
We have expended too much blood and treasure in the Middle East and while we have made epic mistakes, not getting involved in third war is not one of them .
Sorry for the boy and family, but as someone who saw combat, war sucks for everyone.
We have expended too much blood and treasure in the Middle East and while we have made epic mistakes, not getting involved in third war is not one of them .
Sorry for the boy and family, but as someone who saw combat, war sucks for everyone.
2
Imagine what would have happened to this precious innocent if he'd stayed in Syria. And then realize how many 3 year-olds have perished without such outrage. And it is right to be outraged, of course. Reminds of the infamous image of a child, naked, burned in Vietnam.
1
Given the complexity of the world and of the problems we face, whether from warring factions or from climate events, it is imperative that we curtail frivolous military adventures. We cannot alleviate every disaster in the world, but we might do a better job were we not so stretched by unnecessary wars.
Our fighting forces may be the best equipped in the world (?) but our fighters are frazzled. The GOP has cut government spending, and insists on cutting the allocation to the VA. At the same time, Bush's wars, cheered by the GOP, have increased the need for VA services to injured vets. Some reports say that over 100,000 vets have had long waits for service; some have died while waiting,
We cannot nuke every "enemy" and we cannot nuke the climate. We need a real national discussion on national priorities. Partisan bloodletting, sliming, and personal destruction will not do. They have brought us to a very sad and very dangerous place.
Our fighting forces may be the best equipped in the world (?) but our fighters are frazzled. The GOP has cut government spending, and insists on cutting the allocation to the VA. At the same time, Bush's wars, cheered by the GOP, have increased the need for VA services to injured vets. Some reports say that over 100,000 vets have had long waits for service; some have died while waiting,
We cannot nuke every "enemy" and we cannot nuke the climate. We need a real national discussion on national priorities. Partisan bloodletting, sliming, and personal destruction will not do. They have brought us to a very sad and very dangerous place.
3
We have a variety of opinions regarding who is responsible and how many migrants various countries should take. We better get used to this. Does anyone really believe that the Middle East is going to get peaceful anytime soon? I doubt it. Add into the mix population growth and environmental problems as well as the downward pressure on oil prices and flows of people are going to continue. And the west is where the migrants are going to go, because China, Korea, and Japan do not want immigrants. It points out again that the U.S. needs a policy on immigration that is clear and is enforced, whatever that may be. People can disagree as to the policy, but we need the debate.
Looking for an easy way to help make sure fewer refugees are required to risk heir lives crossing the Mediterranean? Sign this petition urging he White House to formally request Saudi Arabia and other Gulf nations change heir current policies and start resettling refugees: http://wh.gov/iReyE
King Salman of Saudi Arabia just rented out the ENTIRE Four Seasons Hotel near the White House in DC as he met with the POTUS last Friday.
Everything is gold,” says one Four Seasons regular, who spied the deliveries arriving at the hotel. Red carpets have been laid down in hallways and even in the lower parking garage, so the king and his family never have to touch asphalt when departing their custom Mercedes caravan.
The guests staying at the 222-room hotel for the next couple of days are all part of the 79-year-old king’s entourage of Saudi diplomats, family members and assistants. Guests who had booked to stay at the Four Seasons during the royal visit have apparently been moved to other luxury hotels in town. A call to the Four Seasons confirmed the hotel is sold out Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.
King Salman, who ascended the throne in January, has a habit of displacing commoners for his own comforts; this summer, during a sojourn to the French Riviera, his eight-day stay forced the closure of a popular beach, enraging locals. Salman rolls deep, with a reported 1,000-person delegation joining him for his seaside August vacation.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/four-seasons-king-salman-visit-red...
It’s good to be king!
Syria lies just to the North of Saudi Arabia. We are not friends of the Saudis. We are “allies.”
The US AND the Saudis are complicit in the death of all the Aylan Kurdi’s in the world. Where is the shame?
Everything is gold,” says one Four Seasons regular, who spied the deliveries arriving at the hotel. Red carpets have been laid down in hallways and even in the lower parking garage, so the king and his family never have to touch asphalt when departing their custom Mercedes caravan.
The guests staying at the 222-room hotel for the next couple of days are all part of the 79-year-old king’s entourage of Saudi diplomats, family members and assistants. Guests who had booked to stay at the Four Seasons during the royal visit have apparently been moved to other luxury hotels in town. A call to the Four Seasons confirmed the hotel is sold out Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights.
King Salman, who ascended the throne in January, has a habit of displacing commoners for his own comforts; this summer, during a sojourn to the French Riviera, his eight-day stay forced the closure of a popular beach, enraging locals. Salman rolls deep, with a reported 1,000-person delegation joining him for his seaside August vacation.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/four-seasons-king-salman-visit-red...
It’s good to be king!
Syria lies just to the North of Saudi Arabia. We are not friends of the Saudis. We are “allies.”
The US AND the Saudis are complicit in the death of all the Aylan Kurdi’s in the world. Where is the shame?
3
Funny, but the NYT did not cover ANY of this Saudi visit.
Believe it or not I saw this coming --- Ross, no one is going to use a three-year old for political fodder, so pack it up.
1
So many words. How about killing the bad guys?
1
"One thing it might mean is that the world’s powers, the United States chief among them, had a responsibility to prevent the Syrian war from developing, and a responsibility to protect its victims once it did"
This is an important passage in Mr Douthat's piece. The Obama administration has lacked both the political resolve and a coherent and comprehensive mid-East policy since the beginning of his presidency. The collapse of the Syrian regime and rise of ISIS with all of the subsequent beheading, rapes, dismemberment, and now we read its destruction of the world's great antiquities can be traced back to this president and his Neville Chamberlin-ism. approach to foreign policy in the mid-East. Bush certainly created a mess, but Obama greatly added to it with his indifference and the world is now suffering. Back to those ice beakers in the north Mr Obama.
This is an important passage in Mr Douthat's piece. The Obama administration has lacked both the political resolve and a coherent and comprehensive mid-East policy since the beginning of his presidency. The collapse of the Syrian regime and rise of ISIS with all of the subsequent beheading, rapes, dismemberment, and now we read its destruction of the world's great antiquities can be traced back to this president and his Neville Chamberlin-ism. approach to foreign policy in the mid-East. Bush certainly created a mess, but Obama greatly added to it with his indifference and the world is now suffering. Back to those ice beakers in the north Mr Obama.
"One answer is that nations that are directly implicated in Syria’s agony have more responsibility to accept refugees than nations that are not. The strongest obligation would belong to those countries — the Gulf States and Iran, above all — who have fed arms and money into the Syrian conflict."
Well, China and Russia are mostly responsible for the Syrian situation, with their consistent vetoes on UN resolutions (notably in 2012 and 2014) for sanctions against Assad. Understandably, no Syrian refugee would entertain the idea of seeking refuge in either of these two countries - except maybe Assad, when his turn comes. These vetoes were (like the ones on Darfour) were not only inhuman but stupid. Havoc in the Middle East will most probably turn out to be catastrophic for both these 'mafia' regimes.
Well, China and Russia are mostly responsible for the Syrian situation, with their consistent vetoes on UN resolutions (notably in 2012 and 2014) for sanctions against Assad. Understandably, no Syrian refugee would entertain the idea of seeking refuge in either of these two countries - except maybe Assad, when his turn comes. These vetoes were (like the ones on Darfour) were not only inhuman but stupid. Havoc in the Middle East will most probably turn out to be catastrophic for both these 'mafia' regimes.
"There cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one's own society cannot reasonably bear."
Well, except that the supposed unbearability looks rather like luxury, compared to conditions for the refugees. And: where do you draw the line between one society and another today, when the rich are free to send their money, their jobs, and their bombs all over the globe, while borders constrain the victims and the poor?
What can we "reasonably bear" for the sake of morality? The demagoguery of politicians who rail against refugees or "illegal aliens" is an evil inseparable from the violence & need immigrants are fleeing; there's no alleviating one without standing up to the other. Ending slavery was totally impractical & unreasonable. In any case, bigots will capitalize on the most innocuous & unthreatening advance in justice, as we see in Kentucky. You can't worry about what they'll let you do. You can be politic & practical, or you can try to do the right thing. Success isn't measured by our own comfort, but by what happens to those in need.
Well, except that the supposed unbearability looks rather like luxury, compared to conditions for the refugees. And: where do you draw the line between one society and another today, when the rich are free to send their money, their jobs, and their bombs all over the globe, while borders constrain the victims and the poor?
What can we "reasonably bear" for the sake of morality? The demagoguery of politicians who rail against refugees or "illegal aliens" is an evil inseparable from the violence & need immigrants are fleeing; there's no alleviating one without standing up to the other. Ending slavery was totally impractical & unreasonable. In any case, bigots will capitalize on the most innocuous & unthreatening advance in justice, as we see in Kentucky. You can't worry about what they'll let you do. You can be politic & practical, or you can try to do the right thing. Success isn't measured by our own comfort, but by what happens to those in need.
Kurt Vonnegut once posited that the best thing that could happen to planet Earth would be an alien invasion by some other planet, so that we would all start thinking of ourselves as "humans" instead of people from different countries with different ethnic, religious and cultural backgrounds. Not to mention different genders and class systems. Common ground too often means a common enemy. We should be working towards the common good.
1
I do not often agree with you, but in this instance, I believe Merkel made a dreadful mistake in allowing thousands into her country without any background checks. Nobody knows who they are. I think it is extremely naive to believe they are all innocent good folks who are trying to escape a conflict.
3
Toppling dictators, or even weakening them, can unleash chaos and inhumanity. But the stability that previously existed in places like Iraq and Syria included brutal conditions for untold numbers of people. It was just that that suffering and barbarism was largely shielded from Western eyes and thus didnt trouble Western consciences, especially while the oil kept flowing.
We, the United States, should take the lead in admitting a large fraction of these refugees. Not because we are responsible---we're not. It is ISIS and the Syrian regime, the Taliban and similar groups in Afghanistan, and others like them elsewhere who are responsible.
But we have a responsibility to help those in distress, whatever the cause. It is called charity, and all religions call for it.
But even stronger: Refugees accepted into the US and their children will become loyal and contributing citizens. The most recent major example is the Bosnians, well integrated in St. Louis (where I live). Before that it was the Vietnamese. Earlier, dozens of other groups, including every American's ancestors (even the Amerindians').
But we have a responsibility to help those in distress, whatever the cause. It is called charity, and all religions call for it.
But even stronger: Refugees accepted into the US and their children will become loyal and contributing citizens. The most recent major example is the Bosnians, well integrated in St. Louis (where I live). Before that it was the Vietnamese. Earlier, dozens of other groups, including every American's ancestors (even the Amerindians').
Since little Kurdi's aunt sent money to the family to come to Canada where she lives and since the only thing lacking for them to board a plane in Turkey to go to Vancouver was the proper paperwork, the fault for their deaths lies with the bureaucrats who somehow never got the paperwork written up. Canada supposedly publicly said it would take 25000 Syrian refugees but hasn't come anywhere close to that number. Some newspaper reports that the Canadian authorities are embarrassed and well they should be.
His father. Who else? The religious fanatics that have made making a life in Syria and other ME countries impossible. But of course these answers won't satisfy some because it us to be the WEST, the ever present evil presence who is suppose to rescue everyone; but is never right no matter what.
Are we in the West perfect....not at all. However, the leaders of the ME countries and the fanatics who call themselves rebel,freedom fighters or whatever set up the vicious and violent environment in which normal people, even those who agree with the marauders at least in principle if not in conduct, cannot lead a normal life even in the context of their own culture. They blow up men, women and children in the name of god.
Are we in the West perfect....not at all. However, the leaders of the ME countries and the fanatics who call themselves rebel,freedom fighters or whatever set up the vicious and violent environment in which normal people, even those who agree with the marauders at least in principle if not in conduct, cannot lead a normal life even in the context of their own culture. They blow up men, women and children in the name of god.
4
Let's observe the Europeans' altruism and dedication toward assimilation. Maybe we in the US can learn something from them. We have already failed so pitifully in our treatment of the Latinos who have crossed our borders in search for a better life.
I would note that the refugees are not coming from Iraq, the nation that we invaded. Not from the Shia part of Iraq, or the Kurdish part of Iraq, or even the Sunni part of Iraq where ISIS is holding almost without opposition from the locals. They are coming from Syria and Libya, where Obama and the Europeans did so much to destroy the lid on the sectarian violence but never lifted a finger to replace the lid and so both are now in turmoil and chaos. Whereas Iraq, at last the part controlled by the government that we set up in Damascus is relatively peaceful. There is the occasional suicide bombing by a disgruntled Sunni but not enough to disturb the government and drive out its people. And Kurdistan, that has been granted informal but real autonomy by the government in Damascus is relatively peaceful as well.
And both areas are better off than they were under Saddam. And far better off than they would be now if Bush hadn't stood the US Army up between the radicals on both sides and defeated them both. By pulling us out, Obama allowed the radical Sunnis to make a comeback but only partially.
So it all tells me that if we want to stop the flow of refugees from Syria and Libya we along with the Europeans need to do what Bush did in Iraq, send in NATO forces and finish off both ISIS and Assad and set up decent governments in both places. And to help the cause Europe should draft the able bodied men among the refugees into an Expeditionary Force to free Syria/Libya
And both areas are better off than they were under Saddam. And far better off than they would be now if Bush hadn't stood the US Army up between the radicals on both sides and defeated them both. By pulling us out, Obama allowed the radical Sunnis to make a comeback but only partially.
So it all tells me that if we want to stop the flow of refugees from Syria and Libya we along with the Europeans need to do what Bush did in Iraq, send in NATO forces and finish off both ISIS and Assad and set up decent governments in both places. And to help the cause Europe should draft the able bodied men among the refugees into an Expeditionary Force to free Syria/Libya
1
"...what Bush did in Iraq, send in NATO forces and finish off both ISIS and Assad and set up decent governments in both places." What Bush did? In what parallel universe? All he finished off was order in the region; he finished off the one strong opponent to Iran there. When Trump says he'll appoint good people, I think of the way Bush appointed Bremer, the czar of chaos... It's clear you need to blame Obama for everything, but get a grip man...
To argue that Iraq is better off ignores the huge civilian casualties occasioned by the unjustified invasion of Iraq. It also ignores the fact that much of the strife in Iraq today was occasioned by the sectarian politics of the man the Bush administration left in charge as well as the wholesale purge of Ba'athists (who first joined forces with the likes of Zarqawi and now work with ISIS). To call Iraq relatively peaceful because to parts it still controls it controls is an untenable argument which ignores that it's just lost control of huge swathes of the country. It would also help if you actually knew the capitals of the countries. The capital of Iraq is Baghdad, not Damascus.
Britain and France literally drew the map that created the modern Middle East. America aided and lied to get along. A century later, we all pay the price for the sins of our colonial fathers, but not half the price of our colonial subjects.
See America, and the natives, for relevant factuals.
See America, and the natives, for relevant factuals.
1
this article is 100% correct. if u accept too few refugees or immigrants (legal or illegal), u can always let a few more in. if u accept too many, u can never make them leave. the gulf states, for all their backwardness, know what europe has failed to understand and europe will pay a high price to learn this lesson.
2
A nice, well thought out argument. The 'it's not our problem and it's too hard to bother' school of thought - popular since the 1930s!
We neo-cons left the Iraqi Kurds in the best shape they'd ever been. It was Obama's cut-and-run, lie about a status of forces agreement, cowardly, stupid, irresponsible skedaddle out of Iraq in 2011 that caused all the tragedy attendant with the rise of ISIS.
All of it. It's all on Obama and the rest of the Bush-hating Democrats who don't or won't understand the role that America MUST play in the world, even if Dick Cheney explains it to them as patiently and simplistically as he can.
All of it. It's all on Obama and the rest of the Bush-hating Democrats who don't or won't understand the role that America MUST play in the world, even if Dick Cheney explains it to them as patiently and simplistically as he can.
The explosion of ISIS is due to the sectarian and ineffective rule of Maliki, the man you neo-cons left in power. The Status of Forces Agreement and the requirement of a U.S. pull out isn't a lie, it's a fact.
The young boy and his family had a refugee claim being held up by the Canadian government where he had family members. The Canadian government has had a quota of seven refugee claims a day. That's my current government's commitment to helping the people of Syria. Their politics are pretty much in line with your Republican party.
No they did not have a refugee claim!
Because Canada is SMART -- they have secure borders and strict immigration laws. They do not have 20 million illegal aliens taking jobs from Canadian citizens.
Catholic Catechism: "1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to “provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education,... and certain situations arising here and there, as for example... alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families.”29 And when Jesus fed 5,000, he didn't count the cost and told his disciples to do it themselves. We all need to just do it now.
1
The elephant in the room of this column is a gigantic prehistoric wooly mammoth. The bungled "cakewalk to Baghdad" brought to the world by the military-draft-evading Mssrs Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc., and resulting anarchy in Iraq, was the direct trigger producing ISIS.
ISIS is not the only horror in the region, and certainly not the only reason for the current mass exodus of refugees, but to talk about "responsibility" for "protecting victims" in that part of the world while ignoring the reckless smashing of pottery in Iraq -which was the predictable and well-predicted part and parcel of the worst foreign policy blunder in US history- is a glaring example of breathtaking denial, even by the appalling standards set by neo-con apologists and distorters of history.
ISIS is not the only horror in the region, and certainly not the only reason for the current mass exodus of refugees, but to talk about "responsibility" for "protecting victims" in that part of the world while ignoring the reckless smashing of pottery in Iraq -which was the predictable and well-predicted part and parcel of the worst foreign policy blunder in US history- is a glaring example of breathtaking denial, even by the appalling standards set by neo-con apologists and distorters of history.
1
Thanks. This is one of the few sensible things that I have read about the crisis.
Everywhere else, the kneejerk response seems to be that, of course, the only humanitarian thing to do is to roll out a welcome mat for the immigrants. But that is to fail Aylan Kurdi all over again. It will make Germany a magnet and so guarantee that many more Aylan Kurdis go to watery graves.
As usual, being a progressive means never counting the human cost of your conspicuous compassion.
The solution has to be along the lines of providing camps for the refugees until they can be safely repatriated and/or until they have been settled in other countries at a sustainable pace -- much like the Vietnamese boat people, almost a million of whom were eventually settled in the west (half in the US and most of the others in Germany, and Europe; sometimes after several years in camps in the Philippines and Hong Kong). The costs of the camps should be borne by the US and Europe and all nations that consider themselves to be civilized.
As an immigrant, I favor immigration; but only so long as it is safe and legal.
The problem is that history has tied Merkel's hands. It is terribly unfair but understandable that most thoughtful Germans I know spend a lot of their time running away from Nazism. To exorcise that ghost, they feel they have to bend over backwards to do whatever the zeitgeist consider to be most humanitarian, even if it will predictably lead to a greater humanitarian disaster.
Everywhere else, the kneejerk response seems to be that, of course, the only humanitarian thing to do is to roll out a welcome mat for the immigrants. But that is to fail Aylan Kurdi all over again. It will make Germany a magnet and so guarantee that many more Aylan Kurdis go to watery graves.
As usual, being a progressive means never counting the human cost of your conspicuous compassion.
The solution has to be along the lines of providing camps for the refugees until they can be safely repatriated and/or until they have been settled in other countries at a sustainable pace -- much like the Vietnamese boat people, almost a million of whom were eventually settled in the west (half in the US and most of the others in Germany, and Europe; sometimes after several years in camps in the Philippines and Hong Kong). The costs of the camps should be borne by the US and Europe and all nations that consider themselves to be civilized.
As an immigrant, I favor immigration; but only so long as it is safe and legal.
The problem is that history has tied Merkel's hands. It is terribly unfair but understandable that most thoughtful Germans I know spend a lot of their time running away from Nazism. To exorcise that ghost, they feel they have to bend over backwards to do whatever the zeitgeist consider to be most humanitarian, even if it will predictably lead to a greater humanitarian disaster.
2
Who failed Aylan Kurdi? Everyone. Assad for displacing Aylan from his home, who was instigated by the Sunni insurgents aided by the US and Saudis who tried to overthrow Assad who is aided and abetted by Iran, Russia, Hezbollah. Instability stoked in the Middle East by invading the wrong country Iraq killing a secular Saddam Hussain spreading chaos ,deaths, displacements killing another dictator, Gaddafi in Libya allowing our original enemies Al Qaeda localised to Afghanistan and Pakistan to sprout wings.And the Arab Spring which was'nt, whence an elected Muslim Brotherhood who were overthrown by another dictator General Sisi with whom we are in cahoots now, meanwhile a deadly, ruthless, murderers, the ISIS arises in Syria and Iraq from this graveyard , aided and abetted by no other than our great ally Saudi Arabia further destabilizing the region with a 12th century caliphate, who we are now fighting i.e. everyone is fighting Meanwhile our other great friend, Israel goes on a rampage killing thousands of Palestinians and amping up their rhetoric -the Iranians will get a nuclear bomb any day now (the day has not come even after 10 years )trying to sabotage an Iran Deal which would ironically protect Israel. But hey! war-mongers (including our Republicans) are busy rattling sabres. Pray tell me why the tot, Aylan's life was of any consequence? Aylan did'nt stand a chance, did'nt stand a chance to get to a place of safety, no place wanted him.
72
For the ignorant and the moral reprobates which occasionally appear in these comments, Israel's defense of their nation, no more occurred in a vacuum, than the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As with that incident at Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 with a nexus to the atomic bombings, Hamas, which rules Gaza, initiated its third failed "war of aggression" against Israel by funding and contracting for the murders of three Israeli seminary students, followed by the launching of rockets into Israeli civilian communities in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions.
It is not that Israel seeks to kill Palestinians, but for Hamas they are expendable "cannon fodder" for their imperial ambitions! As a U.N. nation-state member, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense" as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant unequivocally rejects all forms of non-violent conflict in favor of perpetual war against Israel. Article 7 calls for the genocide of all Jews. Read it at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
As the aggressor, Hamas may define its own "Rules Of Engagement," but when those same "R.O.E." are applied against them, they have no right to complain. There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around." Hamas sowed what it reaped; they have no right to complain!
It is not that Israel seeks to kill Palestinians, but for Hamas they are expendable "cannon fodder" for their imperial ambitions! As a U.N. nation-state member, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense" as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant unequivocally rejects all forms of non-violent conflict in favor of perpetual war against Israel. Article 7 calls for the genocide of all Jews. Read it at: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp
As the aggressor, Hamas may define its own "Rules Of Engagement," but when those same "R.O.E." are applied against them, they have no right to complain. There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around." Hamas sowed what it reaped; they have no right to complain!
1
The Middle East has been unstable ever since the West arbitrarily divided it into nations of mixed tribes after World War 1. George W Bush and Tony Blair started unnecessary wars in the area and triggered the consequences we see today.
His father failed the boy, a person you don't even mention. His father took his family from safe refuge in Turkey. He put them into a small inflatable craft intending to travel 20 or more miles on a rough sea to Greece. None but the Dad could apparently swim, and none seemed to have life jackets. Dad trusted a human trafficker who jumped off and swam back to the Turkish shore when the boat capsized in rough waves. Taking off with the money while all but the father drowned near the Turkish shore.
18
@AC: Blaming a man who suffered such terrible losses--how compassionate of you.
1
You should be ashamed of yourself. The father was searching for a better life for his family like so many people. You have no idea of the desperation of these people or their circumstances.
Ought we not start with those few who began the incursions that led to the present chaos. Twenty or more years ago that part of the world seemed more coherent, more organized, more civil. Then a funny thing happened on the way to the present.
Do we recall ??
Do we recall ??
6
Yes, let's let Europe bear the brunt of all the Mid-eastern refugees running from ruthless dictators and uncontrollable strife, and endless ware, but never expect the U.S. to handle any of the South of the border tragedies from these same kind of men, cut from the same cloth, that these human beings seek in America. Kind of a double standard, don't you think? Our solution is to build a big wall to insure they don't set foot on our soil and find some of the same safety and a future we could offer from the world's largest economy.
9
The measured, almost scholastic tone of the argument here belies the horrific human situation on the ground, and ignores the bottom-line question of what is tolerable. Are Westerners prepared to shoot people rather than feed them? Are we willing to watch children die against our fences or, during the coming winter, out on our streets?
6
Mr. Douthat does not note that Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States do provide financial aid through the UN system and direct to support Syrian refugees in camps in the Middle East. Most refugees from the war are in Syria itself or in Turkey, Lebanon, and Jordan. The Gulf States are tiny and can hardly absorb large numbers of immigrants.
The figure suggested by Germany, of 800,000 Syrian refugees, amounts to 1% of its population. Is this not a proportion which can be assimilated?
The figure suggested by Germany, of 800,000 Syrian refugees, amounts to 1% of its population. Is this not a proportion which can be assimilated?
3
Yes, 800,000 could easily be absorbed by Germany. But there are easily 80 million people in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Yemen, and Subsaharan Africa who would like to live in Germany. Maybe more. The arrivals you see clearly involve many people from these places, not Syria, So you're off by a factor of 100.
And something like 40 million children are born every year in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Yemen, and Subsaharan Africa.
And Syria, which once had 10 million people, now has 30 million. Gaza was a tiny refugee camp once and grew to 1.8 million through an explosive birth rate. These numbers won't stay bounded.
And something like 40 million children are born every year in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Yemen, and Subsaharan Africa.
And Syria, which once had 10 million people, now has 30 million. Gaza was a tiny refugee camp once and grew to 1.8 million through an explosive birth rate. These numbers won't stay bounded.
I don't often agree with David Cameron, but in this case he has stated the correct policy. No "refugee" should be accepted if they cross borders on their own. Potential refugees should be interviewed in camps in Turkey, Jordan or elsewhere and their status determined in an orderly manner.
This denies human traffickers their lucre, and prevents purely economic refugees piggybacking on the torment of war refugees.
This, of course, means that rich nations should ante up money to make enough camps reasonably habitable.
In addition, many of the able bodied Syrians should be required to train and fight IS.
This denies human traffickers their lucre, and prevents purely economic refugees piggybacking on the torment of war refugees.
This, of course, means that rich nations should ante up money to make enough camps reasonably habitable.
In addition, many of the able bodied Syrians should be required to train and fight IS.
"Because of the links between our Iraq intervention and the region's current chaos," a NYT's columnist has finally admitted our complicity in this crisis. But our "intervention" was an illegal act of aggression and in the ensuing political vaccum of sectarian violence gave birth to the creation of the Islamic State in its establishment of a calphate in Iraq and Syria. That qualifies as more than just one of the "links" in this humanitarian crisis. And it seems that the moral leadership shown by Chancellor Angela Merkel is ironic given that we convened the Numerberg trials after Germany's defeat in the Second World War based upon its illegal acts of agression against nations and crimes against humanity. So the ghost of Aylan Kurdi has come back from the dead to haunt us and to show just how twisted and bizarre and immoral our war in Iraq has destablized the Middle East. By the way, our intervention in the Libyan civil war has turned it that once prosperous country into Somalia on the Mediterranean. And I agree with Mathias Waltz's comment from Frankfurt, Germany: "Gee, grow yourself a spine, Mr. America." Bravo, Mathias. Maybe your advice will induce enough shame that we will open up our country to these refugees.
18
We now have yet another good example of how jingoism only makes things worse. The next time some nitwit tells us that the people in a country we intend to attack will welcome us with open arms we should have the sense to laugh them out of office.
34
Ross, it is striking that this column about the untenable situation creating this refugee crisis omits specific references to the American-led Iraq war, which fulfilled the Bush team’s falling-dominoes theory of toppling dictators - without any serious thought to how governance would transition and who would fill in power vacuums- and created an opening for ISIS and others to emerge. On this measure alone, Germany, France and most of the world would be justified in saying that responsibility for Syrian, Iraqi and other Middle-Eastern refugees lies with the US, not with those who warned of ramifications.
But pointing fingers, or answering your title question of ‘who failed Aylan Kurdi’ is futile in the face of this huge international problem. Admittedly, I don’t have a geopolitical strategy for taking this on long-term, or for making home countries safely inhabitable. However, I am making a donation to UN High Commissioner for Refugees. A drop in the bucket, I know, but it’s my way of lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness. If anyone is interested, here is a link:
http://www.unrefugees.org/_ga=1.209740053.1887224245.1441499715
But pointing fingers, or answering your title question of ‘who failed Aylan Kurdi’ is futile in the face of this huge international problem. Admittedly, I don’t have a geopolitical strategy for taking this on long-term, or for making home countries safely inhabitable. However, I am making a donation to UN High Commissioner for Refugees. A drop in the bucket, I know, but it’s my way of lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness. If anyone is interested, here is a link:
http://www.unrefugees.org/_ga=1.209740053.1887224245.1441499715
7
Yes, there is the short-term consideration of what to do with so many who are fleeing war, desolation, religious conflict, poverty. And Douthat does a good job looking at issues in the short term for sure.
But there is a longer term, too, both looking back AND forward. It is not for nothing, after all, that the United States is "a nation of immigrants." Those who came from Africa were, by and large, kidnapped from their native lands and treated as chattel slaves the legacy of which we, as a society, we have not completely left behind.
Most of our forebears came here to escape the war, desolation, religious persecution, and/or poverty of different eras. Much of this was precipitated by the colonial powers and their envoys. The refugees came for a chance to make their own ways in the world, with hope for the future of their children. I see little difference in the stories of the people fleeing war zones in Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc., who are now coming to western Europe. Also, those coming north into our own country are not to different.
Put them all together, and we have a perfect opportunity for a great national/ international debate about the future of a European/North American-dominated global economic and political system. Neither the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, nor the Pacific can provide the barriers they once were. The future is a stake, not just for the poor refugees in Keleti station in Budapest, or on the shores of Lesbos Island, but along the Rio Grande as well.
But there is a longer term, too, both looking back AND forward. It is not for nothing, after all, that the United States is "a nation of immigrants." Those who came from Africa were, by and large, kidnapped from their native lands and treated as chattel slaves the legacy of which we, as a society, we have not completely left behind.
Most of our forebears came here to escape the war, desolation, religious persecution, and/or poverty of different eras. Much of this was precipitated by the colonial powers and their envoys. The refugees came for a chance to make their own ways in the world, with hope for the future of their children. I see little difference in the stories of the people fleeing war zones in Syria, Iraq, Libya, etc., who are now coming to western Europe. Also, those coming north into our own country are not to different.
Put them all together, and we have a perfect opportunity for a great national/ international debate about the future of a European/North American-dominated global economic and political system. Neither the Mediterranean, the Atlantic, nor the Pacific can provide the barriers they once were. The future is a stake, not just for the poor refugees in Keleti station in Budapest, or on the shores of Lesbos Island, but along the Rio Grande as well.
1
Love thy neighbor. What goes around comes around, some day, no one knows which time that it will be, we, mostly comfy westerners, are going to find ourselves on the short end of the stick. The planet needs to act as one, in some sort of unison. It's our only chance moving into the unknown. Oh, history repeats itself.
1
As legitimately ask who failed the unknown, unmourned children who died on their own treks from Central America through Mexico to the U.S. border. In the displacements of war and failed societies, there will always be children who die.
Ross asked a question then neglected to answer it, except to imply that the U.S. had a major hand in the Syrian refugee crisis for its vacillations in Syria. I’ll give my own answer, in context.
The primary cause of Aylan’s death was a failed Syrian society that to be saved at all requires generational efforts by more successful societies, backed by an expeditionary, occupying army. Russia, Iran and China had their own interests to protect that foreclosed THEM as saviors. Europe no longer has a military useful for any practical purpose, so that left us to provide an expeditionary army. But Mr. Obama has made it clear that while he’s president there is NO cause too important to do THAT – heck, he won’t even seriously attack ISIS by air.
Transferring populations from less stable to more stable societies to address the human carnage attendant to war and failed states is not a solution – and any related attempts will fail for an unwillingness of host countries to sacrifice or to risk cultural attenuation to accomplish it.
Aylan Kurdi died because he was born a Syrian at a very bad time in history. His own society failed him.
Ross asked a question then neglected to answer it, except to imply that the U.S. had a major hand in the Syrian refugee crisis for its vacillations in Syria. I’ll give my own answer, in context.
The primary cause of Aylan’s death was a failed Syrian society that to be saved at all requires generational efforts by more successful societies, backed by an expeditionary, occupying army. Russia, Iran and China had their own interests to protect that foreclosed THEM as saviors. Europe no longer has a military useful for any practical purpose, so that left us to provide an expeditionary army. But Mr. Obama has made it clear that while he’s president there is NO cause too important to do THAT – heck, he won’t even seriously attack ISIS by air.
Transferring populations from less stable to more stable societies to address the human carnage attendant to war and failed states is not a solution – and any related attempts will fail for an unwillingness of host countries to sacrifice or to risk cultural attenuation to accomplish it.
Aylan Kurdi died because he was born a Syrian at a very bad time in history. His own society failed him.
72
@Richard Luettgen: Your fellow Republicans should make it clear while running for President that they intend to lavish taxpayer money and American military lives on interventions in the Middle East. Like our most recent GOP chief executive, Dubya. That worked out so well.
3
P.K. Todd:
Your (presumably) fellow Democratic candidates should make it clear while running for president that they wish to eviscerate our military capacities as thoroughly as Europe has hers, and for the same reason: to pay for domestic entitlements; and just as Carter, Clinton and Obama did and have, requiring Republican presidents to rebuild them.
All you seem to see are two extremes: millions of displaced people necessarily creating refugee pressures on one side and dead children on Turkish beaches, or massive military intrusions on the other. Thankfully, mature leaders don't need to accept EITHER.
Your (presumably) fellow Democratic candidates should make it clear while running for president that they wish to eviscerate our military capacities as thoroughly as Europe has hers, and for the same reason: to pay for domestic entitlements; and just as Carter, Clinton and Obama did and have, requiring Republican presidents to rebuild them.
All you seem to see are two extremes: millions of displaced people necessarily creating refugee pressures on one side and dead children on Turkish beaches, or massive military intrusions on the other. Thankfully, mature leaders don't need to accept EITHER.
1
If you think that to "seriously attack" ISIS is to put U.S. boots on the ground in serious numbers back in the middle east, just say so.
2
The current refugee crisis, if handled in the manner recommended by the political pundits and columnists, will end up with a set of new crises - human trafficking, racist attacks, religious discord, and yes, more terrorist attacks in cities accepting these refugees.
It always appears easier to handle the short-term problem first and worry about the long-term issues later. But when that approach is failing, it takes courage and integrity to own up to it and ask the proper questions and take the right decisions.
The solution to these problems, to saving the Aylan Kurdis of the world is the focus our energies, monies and talents on ending the wars in Syria, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, etc.... Some may argue that these folks have been fighting since creation, etc... the refugees are due to recent disruptions. Instead of wasting money trying to fit them into societies they do not want to fit into, we should be making their existing societies upgrade to the times we are in. We need to improve their economic and intellectual lives, not just supply them with arms and propaganda. That would be the truly conservative (and politically liberal) approach.
We are run by the military and media industrial complexes, two arms of the same heartless, selfish economic machine. Greed is good, sure, but this situation calls for Humble Pragmatism. A virtue very much lacking in all of our cultures today.
It always appears easier to handle the short-term problem first and worry about the long-term issues later. But when that approach is failing, it takes courage and integrity to own up to it and ask the proper questions and take the right decisions.
The solution to these problems, to saving the Aylan Kurdis of the world is the focus our energies, monies and talents on ending the wars in Syria, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, etc.... Some may argue that these folks have been fighting since creation, etc... the refugees are due to recent disruptions. Instead of wasting money trying to fit them into societies they do not want to fit into, we should be making their existing societies upgrade to the times we are in. We need to improve their economic and intellectual lives, not just supply them with arms and propaganda. That would be the truly conservative (and politically liberal) approach.
We are run by the military and media industrial complexes, two arms of the same heartless, selfish economic machine. Greed is good, sure, but this situation calls for Humble Pragmatism. A virtue very much lacking in all of our cultures today.
55
A good phrase, "Humble Pragmatism."
The vast majority of commenters on this topic - in this editorial and others - imagine the USA to be puppet masters who empower every strongman, every terrorist group, and every civil war. Perhaps those who would intervene should consider that millions of middle east natives have chosen to act out violently in tribalist, misogynist, anti-intellectual, and malicious ways. This is not the Middle East of our making because it is not the Middle East that we desire. We (Westerners) would like a Middle East that is like Italy - full of ancient treasures (that we can book vacations to visit) and participating in the world economy in a positive way. We want the Middle East to be full of people who respect one another enough to tolerate other religions and beliefs. We would like a Middle East that does not require our intervention.
The fault is not those people who tried and failed to make a better world. The fault is those people who obstinately continue to kill, rape, and destroy in an endless rampage of hate. The fault is ISIS, Al-quaeda, the Taliban, etc. It is not the fault of those who tried and failed to tame them.
The vast majority of commenters on this topic - in this editorial and others - imagine the USA to be puppet masters who empower every strongman, every terrorist group, and every civil war. Perhaps those who would intervene should consider that millions of middle east natives have chosen to act out violently in tribalist, misogynist, anti-intellectual, and malicious ways. This is not the Middle East of our making because it is not the Middle East that we desire. We (Westerners) would like a Middle East that is like Italy - full of ancient treasures (that we can book vacations to visit) and participating in the world economy in a positive way. We want the Middle East to be full of people who respect one another enough to tolerate other religions and beliefs. We would like a Middle East that does not require our intervention.
The fault is not those people who tried and failed to make a better world. The fault is those people who obstinately continue to kill, rape, and destroy in an endless rampage of hate. The fault is ISIS, Al-quaeda, the Taliban, etc. It is not the fault of those who tried and failed to tame them.
Hmmm.... I don't think Mr. Kurdi will be "cashing out" on his pain any day soon.
1
The truth hurts but American meddling and its alliances with unsavoury friends in the region have brought this apolyptic disaster to an apex.
When America returns to Woodrow Wilsons vision if isolationist perhaps the world might be a safer place.
When America returns to Woodrow Wilsons vision if isolationist perhaps the world might be a safer place.
6
Yes, that worked out very well, did it not?
Minor point: Like most critics of utilitarianism, you criticize it by pointing to consequences that it ignores. In fact, it should consider all consequences, properly understood. Your criticism would fail if you did not create a straw man.
4
I am consumed with both grief and anger at the same time. Anger at our government, we intervened and are partially responsible for the mess. We know bombing alone will not defeat ISIS and our government must be aware the the Iraqi army as it currently stands cannot, yet we sit back and do nothing. The rag-tag assortment of opposition will not defeat President Assad while Russia tacitly backs him.
President Obama, I saw that picture and I sat down and cried, cried because an innocent child died with his mother in a vain attempt to flee that crisis. My mind kept superimposing my granddaughter for that child and I am so angry. It may have been President Bush who started this mess, but you succeeded him, sir, you own the problem. I am also aware that nothing substantial will be done prior to the next election as all our politicians care more about their own futures. How many more children will drown and wash up on shore before then?
President Obama, I saw that picture and I sat down and cried, cried because an innocent child died with his mother in a vain attempt to flee that crisis. My mind kept superimposing my granddaughter for that child and I am so angry. It may have been President Bush who started this mess, but you succeeded him, sir, you own the problem. I am also aware that nothing substantial will be done prior to the next election as all our politicians care more about their own futures. How many more children will drown and wash up on shore before then?
36
I'm sorry, but you do realize that Assad is President of Syria and ISIS is the Islamic organization that is fighting against him don't you? You chastise President Obama for not doing more to defeat ISIS, who is trying to overthrow Assad and then you say that crisis must be ended. Which end to you want? President Assad defeating ISIS and the other rebel groups and remaining in power or Assad defeated and ISIS in control of a major land area in the Middle East, since the other rebel forces are either jihadi themselves or too weak to defeat ISIS in any sort of conventional battle?
Why you want to discuss the weakness of the Iraqi Army in response to an article about Syria, I do not know.
Here is a question I have about this article. Why does everyone keep talking about how this family was fleeing the civil war in Syria when they were already in Turkey when the attempt was made to cross over to Greece? Were they not already out of the war zone? What war were they fleeing on the night they paid the almost $5000 to make the crossing to Greece?
Why you want to discuss the weakness of the Iraqi Army in response to an article about Syria, I do not know.
Here is a question I have about this article. Why does everyone keep talking about how this family was fleeing the civil war in Syria when they were already in Turkey when the attempt was made to cross over to Greece? Were they not already out of the war zone? What war were they fleeing on the night they paid the almost $5000 to make the crossing to Greece?
What's your point, Ross? You have so parsed and punctured every argument that you seem to be saying the problem is unsolvable. I think countries who contributed the most to the crisis there do bear more responsibility. And the fact that regional rich arab nations are doing nothing is unconscionable.
But more to the point is a lack of consensus on the part of democratic world nations to figure out some sound multilateral way to stop the madness in the Middle East. Surely if the world (at least some of the world) is ready to take in refugees, then maybe its time to do more to stop the need in the first place.
But more to the point is a lack of consensus on the part of democratic world nations to figure out some sound multilateral way to stop the madness in the Middle East. Surely if the world (at least some of the world) is ready to take in refugees, then maybe its time to do more to stop the need in the first place.
9
Amazing that Russia one of the protectors and suppliers of the Syrian regime comes in with no comment at all. Iran supplying perhaps no more aid is expected to help. Other Arab countries actually fighting the regime are expected to help... they send money. Our state department says they have helped with 4 billion or so in aid.
We need first to sort out just what is expected. If Germany is supplying a short term haven for people likely to return and not settle, that might not be so bad. If all are expected to settle that could be good or bad depending on needs in the country.
About half of the undocument in this country now are said to have come in legally, some no doubt refugees expected to return, but since we don't police any of this we are periodically asked just to pardon those who decide to stay.
My point: any country which doesn't think about the nature of any aid or safe haven and how it will all be handled is asking for trouble. We have enough trouble and obviously haven't a clue as to what we are doing. This column is a good example of muddling around with no clear point except: be careful, you might make a mess. And we are living proof of that.
We need first to sort out just what is expected. If Germany is supplying a short term haven for people likely to return and not settle, that might not be so bad. If all are expected to settle that could be good or bad depending on needs in the country.
About half of the undocument in this country now are said to have come in legally, some no doubt refugees expected to return, but since we don't police any of this we are periodically asked just to pardon those who decide to stay.
My point: any country which doesn't think about the nature of any aid or safe haven and how it will all be handled is asking for trouble. We have enough trouble and obviously haven't a clue as to what we are doing. This column is a good example of muddling around with no clear point except: be careful, you might make a mess. And we are living proof of that.
4
Mr. Douthat conveniently ignores the third option. Provide funding and support for the Syrians to be resettled in countries like Jordan and Lebanon. These are countries far poorer that Europe's that have thrown open their doors but do not have the monetary resources(let alone natural resource) to support the refugees. This would solve the problem of resettlement, and simplify the return of refugees to syria if and when the civil war ends. But of course, that would require the countries you mentioned to actually make an effort to help the refugees.
97
Doiuythat's buddies Bush and Cheney are, almost single-handedly, responsible for the crisis.
Perhaps they should take responsibliiity for addressing the crisis.
Perhaps they should take responsibliiity for addressing the crisis.
32
As neither has ever visibly taken responsibility for anything, your suggestion, although valid, seems most unlikely.
The related, front page graphic, on the number of refugees taken by various countries does not even include Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States or Iran. Not only have those countries fomented many of the problems in the region, but they refuse to lift a finger to aid the people hurt by their vicious ideologies (both Saudi Wahabbi and Iranian's revolutionary Islam), and by their regional power politics.
President Obama is doing the right thing by not jumping in -- at some point the regional powers must make some effort at mitigating the catastrophic suffering that they have created by their direct and indirect support of Assad and ISIS.
President Obama is doing the right thing by not jumping in -- at some point the regional powers must make some effort at mitigating the catastrophic suffering that they have created by their direct and indirect support of Assad and ISIS.
3
"The strongest obligation would belong to those countries — the Gulf States and Iran, above all — who have fed arms and money into the Syrian conflict."
And guess who is now sending the Iranians $100 billion to use for their very own destructive purposes in the Middle East.
And guess who is now sending the Iranians $100 billion to use for their very own destructive purposes in the Middle East.
4
It is ridiculous that Sqaudi Arabia whose money had been the critical factor making the ISIS ideology widespread and popular in the Islamic world, and without whose efforts arguably there'd be no refugees, is refusing to take a single one - despite them speaking the same language and adhering to the same religion. More international pressure on Saudies to admit their responsibility for the problem, to absorb at least half of the refugees, and to provide financing for the rest, should be a priority rather than a second thought after whining about cold heartedness of Europeans and Americans. In the end, Tsarnaev brothers came here as refugees...
13
I challenge your assertion that the U.S. is first among the nations that had a responsibility to put out the Syrian conflagration early in its life. Syria is not in our sphere of influence, no more than is Ukraine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and all of Africa. We're learning the hard way how to pick out fights.
11
WE simply do not have the will of the people, our sovereign, nor the resources, nor the expertise to take on the responsibility for the stability of the world. Period.
Actually, I would say that we're learning the hard way how to pick Presidents - don't elect the ones who doggedly carry out rashly made canpaign promises - like the one to exit Iraq no matter how many deaths and instability it will surely lead to.
We elect Presidents expecting them to have minds and the maturity to realize that events change and holding on to faculty lounge promises get thousands of innocents murdered who never needed to live though such hell.
If we were just electing Barack's list of goofy campaign promises, he could have taped them to John McCain and let HIM go to the White House.
We elect Presidents expecting them to have minds and the maturity to realize that events change and holding on to faculty lounge promises get thousands of innocents murdered who never needed to live though such hell.
If we were just electing Barack's list of goofy campaign promises, he could have taped them to John McCain and let HIM go to the White House.
We have dozens of half-empty cities and at least 20x more space per capita than Syria. Even if 1,000,000 Syrians come here, the Constitution will survive.
7
That must be incredibly easy to say from the HAMPTONS (a very rich, exclusive white community). You will be safe of course. I don't see you moving a few dozen Syrian refugees (*mostly adult men) into your home or community!
When you do that, call me.
Meantime, the reasons that those cities are half empty is they cannot economically support people anymore -- their industries and unions have died off. To send refugees there, would be to condemn them to poverty & hopelessness.
When you do that, call me.
Meantime, the reasons that those cities are half empty is they cannot economically support people anymore -- their industries and unions have died off. To send refugees there, would be to condemn them to poverty & hopelessness.
I love kids as much as the next person, but why didn't the many photos of adult refugees move us to this new place of compassion? Are we so deeply inside our cocoons that only the cutest refugee pains us? We should be in touch with our humanity enough so that we are outraged and pained by the many previous pictures of scruffy adults.
15
This is a good column. We are doing precious little other than sending money, while the Germans and a few others are overburdened and will likely suffer. 1500 is a pitifully small number to help. It's embarrassing.
3
Don't be embarassed. The only American who needs to feel embarassed and should be billed for this mess is George W. Bush whose criminal actions totally destabilized an altogether stable Middle East. But we all know that Bush and his cohorts have neither any sense of remorse nor the capacity for embarassment.
I wonder how much help it would be to look at: 1) who is benefitting from the sales of weapons to the region, 2) the impacts of the artificial borders established, primarily, as I understand, to make divide and conquer the rule, and 3) the impact of global warming on the sustainable population in the region. I think that an analysis of the root causes of the conflict are now mandatory.
8
Don't forget Russia. Our stance in Syria is also very much tied up with Syria being Russia's proxy in the area, and that it's foolish to keep on poking Russia in the eye.
2
"... characteristic of many humanitarian interventions, unfortunately: They save some lives and extinguish others, they deal with one group of thugs only to empower worse successors. "
Yes! Why do "those in charge" never learn? The most likely explanation is that we citizens never learn, those in charge have experts who study the subject, and learn to spin the old, familiar lie in new ways: "War is the answer".
The morality of those who prefer to kill many to save a few, is tribalist, self interested, if not foolish. So why would Saudi Arabia -- whose morality is to advance a religious tribalist agenda (to advance theocratic Wahhabism) throughout the world, feel moral guilt in not accepting the refugees of a country that is being "cleansed by jihadis" that they support?
Germany may not have much blame for the Syrian crisis. The US has some blame because the Iraq regime change pushed vengeful Baathists and radicalized Sunnis into Syria. Many theocratic Gulf states worsened the instability in Syria, essentially pouring gasoline onto smoldering instability, by funding/encouraging the development & evolution of ever more brutal Islamic radical fighters (ISIS). Turkey & Israel may have helped this as well for their own reasons to weaken a rival civilization.
PS. What's happening is the destruction of a civilization, but not just a regime change. Destroying the enemy civilization so that it is no longer a rival, is apparently the regional goal.
Yes! Why do "those in charge" never learn? The most likely explanation is that we citizens never learn, those in charge have experts who study the subject, and learn to spin the old, familiar lie in new ways: "War is the answer".
The morality of those who prefer to kill many to save a few, is tribalist, self interested, if not foolish. So why would Saudi Arabia -- whose morality is to advance a religious tribalist agenda (to advance theocratic Wahhabism) throughout the world, feel moral guilt in not accepting the refugees of a country that is being "cleansed by jihadis" that they support?
Germany may not have much blame for the Syrian crisis. The US has some blame because the Iraq regime change pushed vengeful Baathists and radicalized Sunnis into Syria. Many theocratic Gulf states worsened the instability in Syria, essentially pouring gasoline onto smoldering instability, by funding/encouraging the development & evolution of ever more brutal Islamic radical fighters (ISIS). Turkey & Israel may have helped this as well for their own reasons to weaken a rival civilization.
PS. What's happening is the destruction of a civilization, but not just a regime change. Destroying the enemy civilization so that it is no longer a rival, is apparently the regional goal.
3
and a crime against humanity, if I'm not mistaken.
We have failed to do our share. The United States has a moral imperative to do more in the refugee crisis.There is a direct link between decisions of the Bush administration and the rise and empowerment of ISIS.The Obama administration could have done more to provide sanctuaries in Syria. Once the dogs of war are unleashed havoc reigns.We played a part in the current chaos. We have a moral obligation to lessen the suffering we helped create.
105
Obama is responsible for all that the U.S. has done in Syria to bring down Assad, inviting and perhaps arming ISIS. He clearly didn't learn from Bush's whopper of a mistake in Iraq, or his own mistake in Libya.
Considering how horrific the American track record has been throughout the Middle East any more meddling on our part, no matter how well meaning it sounds, will only make a bad situation worse. America is always on the wrong side of history so what's the point in even trying to provide even some belated humanitarian aid to the refugees? Hey, in New York, we can't even solve the persistent homeless crisis and get those topless women out of Times Square. All we can do now is make some sympathetic clucking noises. President Obama is too busy entertaining the King of Saudi Arabia so he's out of the loop again. As usual we're a day late and a dollar short. However, how come the UN hasn't addressed this problem yet? Aren't refugee problems something the UN is supposed to be good at???
3
Something the UN is good at?
Oh, I forgot - this is the NYT.
Oh, I forgot - this is the NYT.
Since the family running Syria for decades never created a democracy when they had the chance, they share the initial blame for these needless deaths.
The next source of instability was Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton, who made fools of America's role in the Middle East awkwardly enough that they have blood on their hands from several nations, including Syria.
The war-lovimg Iranians will reap some of the violence that they have been sowing all around the regiomn soon enough with the recent agreement locking military action into place as soon as the next President takes office.
The scene now changes to Europe, which has no idea what it is going to do with more new mouths to feed than Carter has little pills.
The next source of instability was Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton, who made fools of America's role in the Middle East awkwardly enough that they have blood on their hands from several nations, including Syria.
The war-lovimg Iranians will reap some of the violence that they have been sowing all around the regiomn soon enough with the recent agreement locking military action into place as soon as the next President takes office.
The scene now changes to Europe, which has no idea what it is going to do with more new mouths to feed than Carter has little pills.
3
Seriously, Obama and Hillary Clinton are to blame? What are you smoking? No mention at all of the two wars started in the region by the Bush family? No acceptance whatsoever that those two unjustified optional wars created massive instability throughout the region?
7
By all means, our first consideration should be the effect an airlift of Syrians to our shores would have on the the xenophobic elements of our society and the political result of their objections. This is concern trolling at its worst. Compassion will result in fascism no matter how much we want to help. A perfect example of Cheney-think.
4
The direct answer to your question, Mr. Douthat, is that the Cheney-Bush presidency has its fingerprints all over this. "Our direct links to Iraq through intervention" contributed to "the chaos in the region." Do you think? Now no fair person can roll the corpses of 3-and-5 year old brothers (as well as their mother) onto America's shores. But when the American presidency is inhabited by a fool and that fool entrusts the government's foreign policy to a schemer who is so delusional and wicked, who promises streets festooned with flowers descending upon conquering troops, then blame for catastrophic consequences can fairly be assessed. The future is closed to us, but when intelligence and history are sure guides down the dark corridors of tomorrow, ought we not to take wise counsel, or ought we to just rush into a situation because some generals wanted war? Oh, by the way; Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu stood at Cheney's (sorry, I meant W's) shoulder and urged American invasion in Iraq, which criminal misadventure contributed to the further destabilization of an-already unstable Syria. Last I checked, Israel has not opened its borders to Syrian refugees. Could this be the subject for a future column?
46
AYLAN KURDI Will he become emblematic of the convulsions of war and horrors of the Mideast, the way that Anne Frank became emblematic of the Holocaust? Perhaps his achieving that status will rally the peoples of the world to assert pressure to end the savagery and to support refugees, either through repatriation or acceptance into host countries. Still, for Ross Douthat to describe what is happening in the Mideast or elsewhere in the world is disingenuous, to be extremely generous. He cannot claim out of one side of the mouth that the US has acted as a beacon of liberty and human rights, while on the other side of the mouth, going on about the necessity to shrink government and spending on social programs. For that reason, I attribute his writing to a need for gainful employment, rather than strength of conviction. That said, I wonder if the countries of the Mideast and Europe, mainly, will be able to develop a deeper understanding for the moral complexity that the US has faced in struggling to address a humane, dignified response to the needs of refugees and immigrants who wish to have us make good on the promise written on the Statue of Liberty: Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free... I lift my lamp beside the golden door. Well we in the US or those elsewhere in the world, aspire to those lofty, poetic ideals? Only time will tell.
Just imagine.
Just a few short years ago the republican Sun Tzu, George W. Bush, was subcontracting torture to, among others, Bashar al Assad of Syria.
All in the name of spreading freedom and democracy, of course.
Just a few short years ago the republican Sun Tzu, George W. Bush, was subcontracting torture to, among others, Bashar al Assad of Syria.
All in the name of spreading freedom and democracy, of course.
41
Thank you for reminding the masses of this interesting kink in alliances. As you probably know, our contemporaries' memory spans are so diminished by being endlessly solicited by high tech, so.
4
it's heartbreaking...but sadly its the result of bush-blair complicity when iraq was invaded on flimsy grounds. there could have been other political methods of getting rid of saddam hussain...that was the beginning of epic disaster that engulfed middle east and there was no looking back as one multicultural nation after another fell to the despised ISIS...who are these bloodthirsty barbarians...again ..after unravelling of iraq the west did not refrain from unhinging the entire region ..it was libya and syria and finally yemen...the destabilising this region has given rise to the most ruthless genocide in memory after WWII.
but instead of holding the actors responsible for this horrible genocide, we are blaming EU for their inability to welcome the huge deluge - the result of thoughtless and ruthless policy of the bush - blair and later day US leadership who thought it would be catwalk to democracy...having destroyed the ancient cultures and overlooking a monumental genocide in recent memory... it is time to hold US responsible instead of EU? is it not time to haul the two war criminals: bush and blair to the UN criminal court for crimes against humanity? if slobodan milosevic and karadzic were cold blooded murderers what else are bush and blair and their applauding followers?
what about the decadent saudi and gulf sheikhdoms who have fuelled the most virulent form of extremism in history ? what about the role of zionists and turks in this monumental greek tragedy ?
but instead of holding the actors responsible for this horrible genocide, we are blaming EU for their inability to welcome the huge deluge - the result of thoughtless and ruthless policy of the bush - blair and later day US leadership who thought it would be catwalk to democracy...having destroyed the ancient cultures and overlooking a monumental genocide in recent memory... it is time to hold US responsible instead of EU? is it not time to haul the two war criminals: bush and blair to the UN criminal court for crimes against humanity? if slobodan milosevic and karadzic were cold blooded murderers what else are bush and blair and their applauding followers?
what about the decadent saudi and gulf sheikhdoms who have fuelled the most virulent form of extremism in history ? what about the role of zionists and turks in this monumental greek tragedy ?
13
Seriously, could you have written a less impressive or moving piece?
A child, more innocent and loving to all than you or I would ever be, lost his life so publicly and in such an obviously excruciating way, and all you care about is navigating a landmine of finger pointing.
Is this what our humanity is left with, political correctness??
Honor his life, help the ones left behind.
A child, more innocent and loving to all than you or I would ever be, lost his life so publicly and in such an obviously excruciating way, and all you care about is navigating a landmine of finger pointing.
Is this what our humanity is left with, political correctness??
Honor his life, help the ones left behind.
14
Unfortunately the history is repeating. Europe did accept thousands boat people leaving Vietnam war in 70s and today from Middle East. All these wars are started and supported by American governments but refugees are supported by Europe. Maybe it is different culture that does exist in the U.S.A.
2
If Donald Trump hasn't shown you what culture exists in the US, then nothing will.
But then, all the rise of the xenophobic far-right parties across Europe is showing the same things are true there. So it's not just an American failing.
But then, all the rise of the xenophobic far-right parties across Europe is showing the same things are true there. So it's not just an American failing.
3
Naturally there is no mention of the obligation of George W. Bush voters like Ross Douthat who supported his illegitimate "pre-emptive" war in Iraq which effectively destabilized the Middle East and led to the present situation in Syria.
52
I would like to see all GOP voters recognize that simpleton solutions to the world's problems are very, very destructive - on every front.
The Obama Administration has drawn together a working group to put real thought into what can be done for Middle Eastern and other refugees.
Let us hope their efforts will manifest soon. If Gerald Ford was still here,
he would probably say "Bring them here as he did with the Vietnamese.
The Obama Administration has drawn together a working group to put real thought into what can be done for Middle Eastern and other refugees.
Let us hope their efforts will manifest soon. If Gerald Ford was still here,
he would probably say "Bring them here as he did with the Vietnamese.
5
Russia is also selling arms to Syria; more precisely, to Assad.
Russia was the goal of the Third Reich's "lebensraum;" expanded settlement opportunities for Germans in urban close quarters.
The Syrian refugees traveling north through Turkey, Greece and Hungary aim to find refuge in Germany.
Why don't they, or at least some of them, migrate to Russia?
The answer is obvious.
Russia was the goal of the Third Reich's "lebensraum;" expanded settlement opportunities for Germans in urban close quarters.
The Syrian refugees traveling north through Turkey, Greece and Hungary aim to find refuge in Germany.
Why don't they, or at least some of them, migrate to Russia?
The answer is obvious.
2
The United States had a responsibility to not fabricate 935 lies in 2003 in the interest of going to war in Iraq, thus finishing the destabilization of a region made fragile by decades of U.S., British, French, and Russian intervention that selfishly promoted tyrannical governments over the interest of the people.
Who failed Aylan? The Reagan administration promoted a war that cost the lives of 100s of thousands of Iraqis and Iranians and embittered millions.
Who failed Aylan? in 1954 the U.S. and British promoted the overthrow of
Mohammad Mosaddeq crushing the democratic hopes of a people.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-irania...
Your question is either a false one, Ross, posed so that it can be answered in a manner convenient to you, or you don't know, or choose to ignore the history of the region.
The failure of Aylan Kurdi is a failure of western power in general, but vulture capitalism in particular, to care a fig about 99% of human beings in the interest of enriching a few.
Ya, sure, isolate Aylan and make it look like some neatly assigned current political matter; but it isn't. You, as one who week after week, labors over all matters religious, and specifically those "Christian," and especially Roman Catholic, need to take a close look at the soul of national and western power policy that cares about oil and resources and who will control them more than it does about human beings, and, yes, children.
.
Who failed Aylan? The Reagan administration promoted a war that cost the lives of 100s of thousands of Iraqis and Iranians and embittered millions.
Who failed Aylan? in 1954 the U.S. and British promoted the overthrow of
Mohammad Mosaddeq crushing the democratic hopes of a people.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-irania...
Your question is either a false one, Ross, posed so that it can be answered in a manner convenient to you, or you don't know, or choose to ignore the history of the region.
The failure of Aylan Kurdi is a failure of western power in general, but vulture capitalism in particular, to care a fig about 99% of human beings in the interest of enriching a few.
Ya, sure, isolate Aylan and make it look like some neatly assigned current political matter; but it isn't. You, as one who week after week, labors over all matters religious, and specifically those "Christian," and especially Roman Catholic, need to take a close look at the soul of national and western power policy that cares about oil and resources and who will control them more than it does about human beings, and, yes, children.
.
69
Western Europe cheered the arrival of American troops in 1944/45. Their woe was Hitler. Hitler came to power because of the Great Depression. The Great Depression was the result of GOP impelled American excess. What was forgotten was that America had been the source of Europe's woes.
Today the world is still suffering from massive instability both economic and non-economic. Most, if not all, can be traced back to the Bush II administration.
The instability in Syria was super charged by the disenfranchisement of the Sunnis and especially the Sunni based military in Iraq.
The invasion of Iraq was based upon Neocon theory that the use of American coercive authority would create a ripple effect that would spread American values and moral authority throughout the region. This was supplemented by Saudi and Israeli (Netanyahu) dislike of Saddam.
The Neocons have been carrying water for the Saudis for a long time. Meanwhile the Saudis have used their wealth to destabilize and radicalize Islam almost every where into a Salafist jihadist fundamentalist hell.
A major source of instability in the world today are the Saudis who are in temporary alliance with Israeli Neocons (Netanyahu).
That means a huge source of instability in the world are the Neocons (fellow travelers of Netanyahu).
Douthat is a Neocon.
An honest column by Douthat would contain only 12 words "I and my fellow neocons are a huge part of the problem."
Who failed Aylann Kurdi? Don't you know by now?
Today the world is still suffering from massive instability both economic and non-economic. Most, if not all, can be traced back to the Bush II administration.
The instability in Syria was super charged by the disenfranchisement of the Sunnis and especially the Sunni based military in Iraq.
The invasion of Iraq was based upon Neocon theory that the use of American coercive authority would create a ripple effect that would spread American values and moral authority throughout the region. This was supplemented by Saudi and Israeli (Netanyahu) dislike of Saddam.
The Neocons have been carrying water for the Saudis for a long time. Meanwhile the Saudis have used their wealth to destabilize and radicalize Islam almost every where into a Salafist jihadist fundamentalist hell.
A major source of instability in the world today are the Saudis who are in temporary alliance with Israeli Neocons (Netanyahu).
That means a huge source of instability in the world are the Neocons (fellow travelers of Netanyahu).
Douthat is a Neocon.
An honest column by Douthat would contain only 12 words "I and my fellow neocons are a huge part of the problem."
Who failed Aylann Kurdi? Don't you know by now?
144
The only thing missing from Tim Kane's foolish comment is that Kane has not saddled Woodrow Wilson and the US with responsibility for starting the First World War.
1
This column is overflowing with obviousnesses and tergiversations. Trying to pinpoint who failed a particular person is an unachievable task. ... Now, Douthat is scarcely a neocon. He has quasi-isolationist sympathies. On foreign policy, he's more of a Rand than a Rubio:
"This outcome is characteristic of many humanitarian interventions, unfortunately: They save some lives and extinguish others, they deal with one group of thugs only to empower worse successors."
Doesn't sound much like a neoconservative. And in this case, I would assail it from the inverse perspective; because, come now, what could possibly be worse than Islamic State? Is there a conceivable successor group waiting to take the title "Most Thuggish" from its current bearer? More pertinently, Does it matter?
Too much contemplation yields do-nothingism.
Until there's a ground force capable of clear-and-hold, America will be attempting to contain, not destroy, Islamic State. And if that's what the administration wants, then whatever this million-man death cult morphs into should surprise no one involved in the thus-far feeble response to one of the largest, best-organized, most well-funded terrorist army-states in the history of humankind. Writing breathless commentary about the impetuousness and stupidity of the former administration doesn't make forgivable the missteps and general irresolution of the current one.
"This outcome is characteristic of many humanitarian interventions, unfortunately: They save some lives and extinguish others, they deal with one group of thugs only to empower worse successors."
Doesn't sound much like a neoconservative. And in this case, I would assail it from the inverse perspective; because, come now, what could possibly be worse than Islamic State? Is there a conceivable successor group waiting to take the title "Most Thuggish" from its current bearer? More pertinently, Does it matter?
Too much contemplation yields do-nothingism.
Until there's a ground force capable of clear-and-hold, America will be attempting to contain, not destroy, Islamic State. And if that's what the administration wants, then whatever this million-man death cult morphs into should surprise no one involved in the thus-far feeble response to one of the largest, best-organized, most well-funded terrorist army-states in the history of humankind. Writing breathless commentary about the impetuousness and stupidity of the former administration doesn't make forgivable the missteps and general irresolution of the current one.
1
Who failed Aylann Kurdi? Judging by this comment the answer is obvious by now--it's Bibi Netanyahu's fault of course!!! It's always so much easier to blame Israel, everyone's favorite scapegoat, for every single conflict, civil war, train wreck, and war that has been engulfing and devouring an unstable region of the world for centuries.
2
"the world’s powers, the United States chief among them, had a responsibility to prevent the Syrian war from developing"
This is an ugly denial of reality. The US did not just fail to prevent the Syrian War. It is a major driver of that war. It has a divisional HQ in Jordan, operating in a closed border region devoted to the US-led insurgency out of Jordan. The Turkish bases of the insurgency are crawling with CIA covert operatives, so much that they escorted Sen McCain into Syria from there on a visit.
This is a US-run proxy war against Iran and Russia, using Saudi money. It is ours as much as Laos and Cambodia were ours during the Vietnam War, despite our transparent denials then.
The US made these people refugees, just as much as it destroyed Laos and Cambodia.
It is not Europe's fault, since Europe has played no role in the US efforts in Syria.
However, it because Europe's problem when the refugees showed up in Europe. How well did Europe handle Europe's problem? Badly. Very badly.
What is Europe's responsibility? Don't kill people, or leave them to die in desperation at the door.
That does not mean taking them in as new citizens. It could mean refugee camps, well done and respectable.
It also should mean stepping in to force the powers playing proxy games in Syria to knock it off. Europe has that right, as a power there, especially now that the consequential problems have spilled over onto them.
The US "responsibility" is to stop the proxy war it is running.
This is an ugly denial of reality. The US did not just fail to prevent the Syrian War. It is a major driver of that war. It has a divisional HQ in Jordan, operating in a closed border region devoted to the US-led insurgency out of Jordan. The Turkish bases of the insurgency are crawling with CIA covert operatives, so much that they escorted Sen McCain into Syria from there on a visit.
This is a US-run proxy war against Iran and Russia, using Saudi money. It is ours as much as Laos and Cambodia were ours during the Vietnam War, despite our transparent denials then.
The US made these people refugees, just as much as it destroyed Laos and Cambodia.
It is not Europe's fault, since Europe has played no role in the US efforts in Syria.
However, it because Europe's problem when the refugees showed up in Europe. How well did Europe handle Europe's problem? Badly. Very badly.
What is Europe's responsibility? Don't kill people, or leave them to die in desperation at the door.
That does not mean taking them in as new citizens. It could mean refugee camps, well done and respectable.
It also should mean stepping in to force the powers playing proxy games in Syria to knock it off. Europe has that right, as a power there, especially now that the consequential problems have spilled over onto them.
The US "responsibility" is to stop the proxy war it is running.
202
It was Assad who started the war with his use of deadly force clamping down on protesters. It is also Assad who is generated many of these refugees with his barrel bomb assaults. Your comment assigns no blame to Assad at all, as if he weren't going after civilians or to those powers that are backing him up, especially Russia and Iran. You also overlook the fact that a no-fly zone could have stopped much of this, as it curtailed Hussein's atrocities against the Kurds in the 90s.
The idea that this is aimed at Iran and Russia is an oversimplification as there was also U.S. assistance (for better or for worse) in support of Libya rebels, where neither of those powers had a stake and the provision of U.S. assistance to Syrian rebels is consistent with that policy.
"stepping in to force the powers playing proxy games in Syria to knock it off. "
And how would you suggest that Europe force Iran and Russia to not play those proxy games?
The idea that this is aimed at Iran and Russia is an oversimplification as there was also U.S. assistance (for better or for worse) in support of Libya rebels, where neither of those powers had a stake and the provision of U.S. assistance to Syrian rebels is consistent with that policy.
"stepping in to force the powers playing proxy games in Syria to knock it off. "
And how would you suggest that Europe force Iran and Russia to not play those proxy games?
2
@Mark Thomason
If this is your sincerely-held belief, I think there is a phone number where you can call that in to the White House and share your view with the POTUS.
If this is your sincerely-held belief, I think there is a phone number where you can call that in to the White House and share your view with the POTUS.
1
If Mr. Thomason had the responsibility for US policy in the Mideast on his shoulders, he might not speak as casually as he does concerning our actions or our interests in Syria.
He says we are running a proxy war against the Assad regime. Are we really? Assad’s main opponents in Syria are al Qaeda and ISIS. In effect he is telling us that the US is in favor of Saudi funding for al Qaeda and ISIS; and of them replacing Assad.
Were either force to topple Assad, and so gain control not only of Syria but significant portions of Iraq, we would have a worse problem on our hands than Assad will ever be. I agree that, once fully restored to power, Assad might help Russia cause problems for the West but his regime’s survival is not a vital Russian interest. It is in Iran’s vital interest to prevent ISIS or al Qaeda from taking over Syria; but it is in our interest as well, given that those two organizations are deadly enemies of ours. I doubt Assad will arrange a stealth attack with weapons of mass destruction on us. ISIS or al Qaeda might, if they acquire weapons of that sort.
Maybe Mr. Thomason meant say that Obama and Kerry want Assad and the jihadists to remain at each other’s throats regardless of the cost in lives and suffering. It is a monstrous accusation. If he knows it to be true, he should prove it; Wikileaks will help. If he does not know it to be true, but is making his accusations with political ideology aforethought, then he ought think about retracting them.
He says we are running a proxy war against the Assad regime. Are we really? Assad’s main opponents in Syria are al Qaeda and ISIS. In effect he is telling us that the US is in favor of Saudi funding for al Qaeda and ISIS; and of them replacing Assad.
Were either force to topple Assad, and so gain control not only of Syria but significant portions of Iraq, we would have a worse problem on our hands than Assad will ever be. I agree that, once fully restored to power, Assad might help Russia cause problems for the West but his regime’s survival is not a vital Russian interest. It is in Iran’s vital interest to prevent ISIS or al Qaeda from taking over Syria; but it is in our interest as well, given that those two organizations are deadly enemies of ours. I doubt Assad will arrange a stealth attack with weapons of mass destruction on us. ISIS or al Qaeda might, if they acquire weapons of that sort.
Maybe Mr. Thomason meant say that Obama and Kerry want Assad and the jihadists to remain at each other’s throats regardless of the cost in lives and suffering. It is a monstrous accusation. If he knows it to be true, he should prove it; Wikileaks will help. If he does not know it to be true, but is making his accusations with political ideology aforethought, then he ought think about retracting them.
2
So "in Syria the Pax Americana has developed an ugly crack", eh?
An ugly crack would represent enormous progress since the creation of the huge fissure inflicted with the US invasion of Iraq. No, Mr. Douthat, you cannot downgrade Iraq as a weaker-but-still-meaningful US responsibility; it was the match that set the whole region ablaze. One of its effects was to burden Syria with enormous numbers of Iraqi refugees that may well have stressed that country into civil war.
Many of the problems of the Middle East are home-grown, but they cannot be divorced from the history of western interference over the past century.
An ugly crack would represent enormous progress since the creation of the huge fissure inflicted with the US invasion of Iraq. No, Mr. Douthat, you cannot downgrade Iraq as a weaker-but-still-meaningful US responsibility; it was the match that set the whole region ablaze. One of its effects was to burden Syria with enormous numbers of Iraqi refugees that may well have stressed that country into civil war.
Many of the problems of the Middle East are home-grown, but they cannot be divorced from the history of western interference over the past century.
125
Pruned a bit: "...The utilitarian theory is blind to the realities of culture, the challenges of assimilation, the dangers and inevitability of backlash. [...]One day you have a pro-immigration “consensus,” and the next a party with fascist roots is leading Sweden’s polls.[paragraph] So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues. There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear."
Uhhh. 1. cultural realities, assimilation, haters, are all "utils", so a ... phony blindness, nicht wahr? 2. Douthat shills daily for a party at home with fascist tendency candidates, three now total over 50 percent. Leave Sweden alone, check mirror. 3. refugees as percent EU population, tiny. 4. Africa especially?? What.. republican wording. 5. "reasonably bear" per Sanhedrin Nasi Douthat? Yeah yeah, sure Pontius. 6. the Pope is clear on the duty, Douthat justifies his idiosyncratic american right wing phony conservatism with his own personal Catholic dogma weekly, as suits his needs, threatens schism when not. Fuhgidaboutit Pope. Douthat says, can't do it.
100 percent: phony conservative, conformist hack, cafeteria catholic.
Perhaps "prudence has to temper idealism" for the zero abortion goal for the unborn, as Douthat rules it must for that poor, drowned, born, toddler who no good Samaritan saved, who Douthat denies? Nah. His cafeteria, his rules.
Uhhh. 1. cultural realities, assimilation, haters, are all "utils", so a ... phony blindness, nicht wahr? 2. Douthat shills daily for a party at home with fascist tendency candidates, three now total over 50 percent. Leave Sweden alone, check mirror. 3. refugees as percent EU population, tiny. 4. Africa especially?? What.. republican wording. 5. "reasonably bear" per Sanhedrin Nasi Douthat? Yeah yeah, sure Pontius. 6. the Pope is clear on the duty, Douthat justifies his idiosyncratic american right wing phony conservatism with his own personal Catholic dogma weekly, as suits his needs, threatens schism when not. Fuhgidaboutit Pope. Douthat says, can't do it.
100 percent: phony conservative, conformist hack, cafeteria catholic.
Perhaps "prudence has to temper idealism" for the zero abortion goal for the unborn, as Douthat rules it must for that poor, drowned, born, toddler who no good Samaritan saved, who Douthat denies? Nah. His cafeteria, his rules.
14
So ... having attacked the message ... what is your proposal ?
2
You and the rest of you neocons are responsible. GW bush and his invasion of Iraq left the Kurds with no protection. Instead of calling for a Kurdistan, your little war mongers kissed up to Turkey, so the Kurds had no place to go whan the Iraqis returned to northern Iraq.
Of course the GOP wanted to get rid of Assad, but we did not see any of the volunteering to go get him. As usual they wanted to send other people kids, husbands, daughters, to go die, but I do not remember your Douthat putting on your armor and heading off the show us what a big man you are.
Americans are fed up with military action in the Middle East because of G.W. Bush and his war. And they also learned you have to know who you are helping when you do give military aide. As an example, it was the UI.S. that gave the Taliban weapons to fight the Russians, wasn't a god deal?
He died trying to escape a country where terrorism rules, and much opf that was brought about by the policies of Bush, and his henchman, J.P Bremer.
Of course the GOP wanted to get rid of Assad, but we did not see any of the volunteering to go get him. As usual they wanted to send other people kids, husbands, daughters, to go die, but I do not remember your Douthat putting on your armor and heading off the show us what a big man you are.
Americans are fed up with military action in the Middle East because of G.W. Bush and his war. And they also learned you have to know who you are helping when you do give military aide. As an example, it was the UI.S. that gave the Taliban weapons to fight the Russians, wasn't a god deal?
He died trying to escape a country where terrorism rules, and much opf that was brought about by the policies of Bush, and his henchman, J.P Bremer.
226
The Kurds? Sorry, but the kid who drowned trying to get to Greece was a Syrian Arab.
2
@David Underwood
When in doubt, invoke the name of George W. Bush.
When in doubt, invoke the name of George W. Bush.
3
Although it may be true that the Bush administration is responsible for destabilizing the Middle East by going to war in Iraq thus precipitating the "Arab Spring" uprisings and revolt against Assad in Syria, constantly blaming Bush is not going to solve the terrible situation in Syria. I don't know what the solution is to end the conflict, however the least that the US, European countries and other countries that value humanity can do is to give assistance to the refugees fleeing from Syria.
Thus to answer "who failed Aylan" I would have to say all economically sound countries who are not resettling or giving aid to the Syrian refugees have failed him.
Thus to answer "who failed Aylan" I would have to say all economically sound countries who are not resettling or giving aid to the Syrian refugees have failed him.
1
"So prudence has to temper idealism on these issues. There may be a moral obligation to accept refugees in wealthy countries, but there cannot be a moral obligation to accept refugees at a pace one’s own society cannot reasonably bear."
German leaders more than likely have a better grasp on what their society can bear than Mr. Douthat.
Mr. Douthat makes several common assumptions but presents no facts in support of those assumptions. Are the Syrian refugees all monolithically fervent Muslims? Will they all have neither the will nor the ability to assimilate? Will host countries offer programs that will help in assimilation? What does it mean to assimilate? What is the backlash and why is it inevitable?
Does Mr. Douthat think that Germany is simply going to let refugees come in without taking steps to offer them the tools necessary to become a member of society?
Let's be clear about the problems posed by massive dislocations, now and in the future, and think about workable solutions that conform to the true values of our culture. Fearful stereotyping and fretting are not values worth preserving.
German leaders more than likely have a better grasp on what their society can bear than Mr. Douthat.
Mr. Douthat makes several common assumptions but presents no facts in support of those assumptions. Are the Syrian refugees all monolithically fervent Muslims? Will they all have neither the will nor the ability to assimilate? Will host countries offer programs that will help in assimilation? What does it mean to assimilate? What is the backlash and why is it inevitable?
Does Mr. Douthat think that Germany is simply going to let refugees come in without taking steps to offer them the tools necessary to become a member of society?
Let's be clear about the problems posed by massive dislocations, now and in the future, and think about workable solutions that conform to the true values of our culture. Fearful stereotyping and fretting are not values worth preserving.
48
"German leaders more than likely have a better grasp on what their society can bear than Mr. Douthat."
Not really. German leaders have the Holocaust ever on their minds, along with world public opinion!
Not really. German leaders have the Holocaust ever on their minds, along with world public opinion!
13
And you know this... how?
2
Why is it that when it comes to immigration, Douthat's political conservatism trumps his religion's teachings?
182
Though I very rarely agree with Douthat, it seems he is not a religious absolutist. That's to his credit!
4
He is more doctrinaire about issues of sexual morality than helping those in need. To my mind, that is not to his credit.
As a member of an evangelical western faith, he displays in this column an anxiety that western culture will be overrun by outsiders. Douthat is in many ways a moderate self-styled intellectual semi-pop journalist, yet the xenophobia that sometimes taints the wish of preserving euro-centric culture (that is, Christian) is not to be taken lightly here.
As a member of an evangelical western faith, he displays in this column an anxiety that western culture will be overrun by outsiders. Douthat is in many ways a moderate self-styled intellectual semi-pop journalist, yet the xenophobia that sometimes taints the wish of preserving euro-centric culture (that is, Christian) is not to be taken lightly here.
30
Maybe Christian culture is not as bad as it is often made out. We have Muslim refugees who are not being helped by their Muslim brethren in Saudi Arabia and it is the nominally Christian nations of Europe who are taking them in.
Not to deny that Christianity and Christian nations have done awful things in the past. But Germany's action right now, whether it is realistic or not, can only be described as noble.
Merkel has said, "I am a member of the evangelical church. I believe in God and religion is also my constant companion, and has been for the whole of my life."
So let us give Christianity a week's holiday from bashing, shall we?
Not to deny that Christianity and Christian nations have done awful things in the past. But Germany's action right now, whether it is realistic or not, can only be described as noble.
Merkel has said, "I am a member of the evangelical church. I believe in God and religion is also my constant companion, and has been for the whole of my life."
So let us give Christianity a week's holiday from bashing, shall we?
3
Quite right. What you fail to mention, though, is that the wealthy countries, including the countries of the EU, the US, and the petroleum-rich states of the Middle East -- have failed to provide sufficient financial aid to allow refugees to flee to surrounding states. (The US, to its credit, has been the largest donor.)
The consequence of this is that Europe is now seeing an influx of refugees, like it or not, and that many are dying along the way.
Opening the borders of the first world to the victims of every third world conflict is ultimately impractical; more and more will choose to come, as life in these nations is far preferable to life in the poor ones, and they will be swamped by third world refugees who assimilate poorly.
But both humanity and self-interest converge on the wisdom of providing generous aid to refugees who flee to refugee camps in neighboring countries.
Finally, I am not sure what we can do or could have done to prevent the situation in Syria. Iran, Hezbollah, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Assad, ISIS -- there are any number of bad players here. The simple truth is that while we can fight terrorism, exert influence, and provide strategic aid, we can't prevent every war in the world. We can rightly condemn George W. Bush for the disastrous war that destabilized Iraq, but essentially, the problems in the Middle East are of the Middle East's own making. We may have to consider, though, that as brutal as the dictatorships are, what replaces them is even worse.
The consequence of this is that Europe is now seeing an influx of refugees, like it or not, and that many are dying along the way.
Opening the borders of the first world to the victims of every third world conflict is ultimately impractical; more and more will choose to come, as life in these nations is far preferable to life in the poor ones, and they will be swamped by third world refugees who assimilate poorly.
But both humanity and self-interest converge on the wisdom of providing generous aid to refugees who flee to refugee camps in neighboring countries.
Finally, I am not sure what we can do or could have done to prevent the situation in Syria. Iran, Hezbollah, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Assad, ISIS -- there are any number of bad players here. The simple truth is that while we can fight terrorism, exert influence, and provide strategic aid, we can't prevent every war in the world. We can rightly condemn George W. Bush for the disastrous war that destabilized Iraq, but essentially, the problems in the Middle East are of the Middle East's own making. We may have to consider, though, that as brutal as the dictatorships are, what replaces them is even worse.
70
@Josh,
“Opening the borders of the first world to the victims of every third world conflict is ultimately impractical; more and more will choose to come, as life in these nations is far preferable to life in the poor ones, and they will be swamped by third world refugees who assimilate poorly.”
Ya think??
Your writing reminds me of the Tea Party candidate who related the story his mother used to tell him about NOT feeding the homeless kittens and puppies that came to their back door as they “would get used to eating and would continue to come around.” (OUR homeless)
Yeah..Wow! How terrible it would be if these children would get “used” to eating..of not knowing what it is like to starve to death. Tell me WHY we can’t bring these people in? Everyone talks about how the Donald speaks the truth. He says that we need to go into Iran and TAKE their oil. We are allies with the richest countries in the world in gold and oil though NOT rich in humanity or caring. Heck bring them to Arkansas! The six Walton children have as much wealth as 45 MILLION American families! There’s plenty of room in Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, Utah, Arizona, and Texas!
Put pictures of Dick Cheney and Aylan Kurdi side by side. Cheney is the one who got the $250,000 heart transplant. Why on earth can we NOT bring the Syrians here? What am I missing? And I’m an atheist! I don’t need a made up god telling me to take care of my neighbor--it’s simply the RIGHT thing..the ONLY thing to do.
“Opening the borders of the first world to the victims of every third world conflict is ultimately impractical; more and more will choose to come, as life in these nations is far preferable to life in the poor ones, and they will be swamped by third world refugees who assimilate poorly.”
Ya think??
Your writing reminds me of the Tea Party candidate who related the story his mother used to tell him about NOT feeding the homeless kittens and puppies that came to their back door as they “would get used to eating and would continue to come around.” (OUR homeless)
Yeah..Wow! How terrible it would be if these children would get “used” to eating..of not knowing what it is like to starve to death. Tell me WHY we can’t bring these people in? Everyone talks about how the Donald speaks the truth. He says that we need to go into Iran and TAKE their oil. We are allies with the richest countries in the world in gold and oil though NOT rich in humanity or caring. Heck bring them to Arkansas! The six Walton children have as much wealth as 45 MILLION American families! There’s plenty of room in Wyoming, the Dakotas, Montana, Utah, Arizona, and Texas!
Put pictures of Dick Cheney and Aylan Kurdi side by side. Cheney is the one who got the $250,000 heart transplant. Why on earth can we NOT bring the Syrians here? What am I missing? And I’m an atheist! I don’t need a made up god telling me to take care of my neighbor--it’s simply the RIGHT thing..the ONLY thing to do.
3
Nuschler, you know the phrase "the straw that broke the camel's back"? Do the math. There are literally billions of people in the third world and far fewer in the industrialized countries.
The industrialized nations are already overpopulated and are having a terrible time assimilating the many third world immigrants who are already here. We run the risk of turning the first world into the third, rather than the third into the first, which should be our goal.
It's easy to say from a comfortable ivory tower perspetive that we should take more third world immigrants, not so easy for the less well off people who lose their jobs to them or who see educational resources stripped from their children.
As I said, I believe we have a moral obligation to help the refugees, but we cannot help the billions of the rapidly overpopulating third world by importing them to the first, at some point, you're turning the first world into the third, and I don't believe that we should do that.
The industrialized nations are already overpopulated and are having a terrible time assimilating the many third world immigrants who are already here. We run the risk of turning the first world into the third, rather than the third into the first, which should be our goal.
It's easy to say from a comfortable ivory tower perspetive that we should take more third world immigrants, not so easy for the less well off people who lose their jobs to them or who see educational resources stripped from their children.
As I said, I believe we have a moral obligation to help the refugees, but we cannot help the billions of the rapidly overpopulating third world by importing them to the first, at some point, you're turning the first world into the third, and I don't believe that we should do that.
3
@Nuschler: you seem oblivious to the fact that the US already has 320 million people here -- that we have 20 million illegal aliens ALREADY -- that 15% of us are ALREADY on food stamps. Our labor participation rate (more accurate than "the unemployment rate" which is fake) is the lowest in history.
The idea that you can take in tens of thousands of refugees (*mostly adult men 18-30, NOT families) and just dump them in "the Dakotas" -- with no housing, no medical services, no food, no jobs, no schools -- is more heartless in actually than those who say "send them back to their native homeland".
BTW: the Walton "children" are middle-aged or elderly. You mean really "the heirs of Sam Walton". Yes, they are rich but it is ridiculous to think one family can support half the nation of Syria, even if you confiscate every penny of the Walton wealth.
The idea that you can take in tens of thousands of refugees (*mostly adult men 18-30, NOT families) and just dump them in "the Dakotas" -- with no housing, no medical services, no food, no jobs, no schools -- is more heartless in actually than those who say "send them back to their native homeland".
BTW: the Walton "children" are middle-aged or elderly. You mean really "the heirs of Sam Walton". Yes, they are rich but it is ridiculous to think one family can support half the nation of Syria, even if you confiscate every penny of the Walton wealth.
6
The statement that one death is a tragedy while millions of deaths is a statistic is, while heartless, is also all too true.
We can look no further than our recent forays in the Middle East and Central Asia and the thousands of dead and wounded and millions of displaced refugees as an example of our hubris.
Many experts claim the civil war in Syria was partly precipitated by a terrible drought, possibly the result of global climate change.
And many climate scientists are warning of more weather-related catastrophes to come, with millions of future refugees escaping ecologically damaged and war-ravaged regions of the globe by desperately seeking safer nations.
Mankind, in his infinite capacity for evil, and insatiable greed for ephemeral economic gain, will be responsible for much grief and hardship in the coming decades unless we take immediate steps to halt the destruction of our planet.
Sadly, our nation is controlled by an economic and political elite more interested in the next election cycle and the daily returns of the stock market to possess the will to do anything.
Yes, we have indeed met the enemy.
We can look no further than our recent forays in the Middle East and Central Asia and the thousands of dead and wounded and millions of displaced refugees as an example of our hubris.
Many experts claim the civil war in Syria was partly precipitated by a terrible drought, possibly the result of global climate change.
And many climate scientists are warning of more weather-related catastrophes to come, with millions of future refugees escaping ecologically damaged and war-ravaged regions of the globe by desperately seeking safer nations.
Mankind, in his infinite capacity for evil, and insatiable greed for ephemeral economic gain, will be responsible for much grief and hardship in the coming decades unless we take immediate steps to halt the destruction of our planet.
Sadly, our nation is controlled by an economic and political elite more interested in the next election cycle and the daily returns of the stock market to possess the will to do anything.
Yes, we have indeed met the enemy.
373
I agree with all you say and am heart broken. As to the very wealthy, I cannot understand what their billions will do for them because ere long they will have departed Earth. Monetary gain is for a short time only so what is to be gained by their many riches sitting in a bank or taking them on a brief vacation. There is no understanding their stance, which is slowly doing in the rest of us, most of whom have the good of humanity, Earth, and all creatures in their hearts.
2
...and the enemy is indeed us! All it takes is greed, denial of facts, giving short-shrift to public education, and laziness to turn Constitutional democracy on its head in a world of antonyms.
2
@Kevin Rothstein
Thank you, Ross, for your view on refugees; now let me get back to my never-ending screed on Western nations.
Priceless. I believe you guys wait all week to pounce on Douthat's column each Saturday. The equivalent of a "slow news day" in Liberal-land.
Thank you, Ross, for your view on refugees; now let me get back to my never-ending screed on Western nations.
Priceless. I believe you guys wait all week to pounce on Douthat's column each Saturday. The equivalent of a "slow news day" in Liberal-land.
5
"But it’s also reasonable to worry that by accepting hundreds of thousands of refugees on a continent already struggling with assimilation, and making itself a magnet for still more, Germany is failing in its obligations to its own."
Gee, grow yourself a spine, Mr. America.
Our culture is the challenge, our attitude is optimism, our obligation is to tell our citizen, that we sometimes have to leave our comfortzone to stay lean and mean.
Gee, grow yourself a spine, Mr. America.
Our culture is the challenge, our attitude is optimism, our obligation is to tell our citizen, that we sometimes have to leave our comfortzone to stay lean and mean.
93
Mathias, your comment seems a bit glib (note that I left out the second "t" in Mathias).
The vast bulk of these thousands of refugees is young. What is Germany's unemployment rate among its young? I believe it's on the wane but was 7% as of last month. What will be your countrymen's reaction to giving preference in employment to Syrian refugees, many of whom might speak English but not German, over indigenous young job-seekers?
This is what Ross means by "failing in its obligations to its own".
Then, Germany sees these refugees being carved up among other European nations. France, perhaps, with youth unemployment of over 23% (and with existing ghettos of Islamic unemployables)? Austria at over 20%? Finland at over 24%? Belgium at 18%? Demark or Norway at over 10%? The Netherlands at over 11%? Spain at over 49%? Italy at over 44%? Portugal at 31%
Oh, I know. Let's put them in Greece (over 50%).
How many of these nations, including Germany, will change their protective labor laws to create opportunity for these newcomers when their own youth languishes?
If your culture is the challenge, then it's one heck of a challenge.
The vast bulk of these thousands of refugees is young. What is Germany's unemployment rate among its young? I believe it's on the wane but was 7% as of last month. What will be your countrymen's reaction to giving preference in employment to Syrian refugees, many of whom might speak English but not German, over indigenous young job-seekers?
This is what Ross means by "failing in its obligations to its own".
Then, Germany sees these refugees being carved up among other European nations. France, perhaps, with youth unemployment of over 23% (and with existing ghettos of Islamic unemployables)? Austria at over 20%? Finland at over 24%? Belgium at 18%? Demark or Norway at over 10%? The Netherlands at over 11%? Spain at over 49%? Italy at over 44%? Portugal at 31%
Oh, I know. Let's put them in Greece (over 50%).
How many of these nations, including Germany, will change their protective labor laws to create opportunity for these newcomers when their own youth languishes?
If your culture is the challenge, then it's one heck of a challenge.
3
"our obligation is to tell our citizen, that we sometimes have to leave our comfortzone"
Mathias I am sure you are well meaning. I however think you don't quite realise the depth of social issues in our european countries (at least in France, don't know for Germany). You are basically telling people: "lose control of your country" or at the very least "accept that your country changes in ways that you have no control over". One should not be suprised if at some point there is a backlash.
In France Islam is getting more of an issue not less. Tolerance is a lofty principle, but the conditions necessary for achieving it are actually not so simple (and no it does not work to simply tell people to "leave their comfortzone").
Mathias I am sure you are well meaning. I however think you don't quite realise the depth of social issues in our european countries (at least in France, don't know for Germany). You are basically telling people: "lose control of your country" or at the very least "accept that your country changes in ways that you have no control over". One should not be suprised if at some point there is a backlash.
In France Islam is getting more of an issue not less. Tolerance is a lofty principle, but the conditions necessary for achieving it are actually not so simple (and no it does not work to simply tell people to "leave their comfortzone").
3
It's not America, it's the neocon clique in America.
There are many, many folks here that are in despair about the neocon movement. They wish those neocons disappear today rather than tomorrow. Douthat is one of those bigotted neocons that created that refugee mess in the first place and now play not guilty.
There are many, many folks here that are in despair about the neocon movement. They wish those neocons disappear today rather than tomorrow. Douthat is one of those bigotted neocons that created that refugee mess in the first place and now play not guilty.
3
There was something like a rhyme kids used to say about how the more you study, the more you know, (but) the more you know, the more you forget, and the more you forget, the less you know, so why study? The argument in this column reminds me of that rhyme. I have no doubt that helping refugees and immigrants get settled in a new country can be done in better ways or in worse ways, can be done more or less smoothly, and that a badly done job creates understandable backlash, but throwing up hands in advance and capitulating to people and parties who may not actually want to try and whose backlash may be more ideological than in reaction to things that have happened or will happen seems to me to be an easy way out of doing what we can to help in a humanitarian crisis. Perhaps doing a better job of handling the refugee flow, treating the logistical needs well and mounting a persuasive campaign about how accepting the inflow can and will be managed, is needed. Without more about how to actually do what can be done, the idea of having someone decide what "pace" a given society can "reasonably bear" sounds to me like hiding behind an excuse not to do the hard work of what can be done to help.
34
Thank you Diana. there are no reasonable excuses now, not even poverty, and the poor are often the most geneorus to those who have nothing. The rest is pure selfishness.
It’s hard to talk about U.S. responsibility for providing aid to refugees when the leading Republican candidate is getting political mileage by threatening to eject millions of undocumented immigrants, not to mention building a massive, impractical and ruinously expensive wall to prevent others from entering. Considering the consequences of the Bush/Cheney adventures in the Middle East, I could imagine other countries wishing we’d built the wall sooner, and facing in instead of out.
Bush was quick to seek the Lord’s advice on going to war, and apparently getting forgiveness for lying us into it, but the spirit didn’t move him nearly as quickly when thousands were stranded, drowned and displaced when Katrina struck New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.
The time to act is not when children’s bodies are washing up on shore. There needs to be an international understanding that attacks on civilian populations will not be tolerated, and that countries taking such actions will not be allowed to profit from their brutality. Refugees must be given shelter, and severe sanctions must be levied against countries whose leadership embarks on a crusade against its citizens.
Putin took the Ukraine as members of the European Union dithered and fretted about pocketbook issues. As long as megalomaniacal bullies can annex free countries and gas their citizens without consequences, the beaches will be crowded with the bodies of the innocent.
Bush was quick to seek the Lord’s advice on going to war, and apparently getting forgiveness for lying us into it, but the spirit didn’t move him nearly as quickly when thousands were stranded, drowned and displaced when Katrina struck New Orleans and the Gulf Coast.
The time to act is not when children’s bodies are washing up on shore. There needs to be an international understanding that attacks on civilian populations will not be tolerated, and that countries taking such actions will not be allowed to profit from their brutality. Refugees must be given shelter, and severe sanctions must be levied against countries whose leadership embarks on a crusade against its citizens.
Putin took the Ukraine as members of the European Union dithered and fretted about pocketbook issues. As long as megalomaniacal bullies can annex free countries and gas their citizens without consequences, the beaches will be crowded with the bodies of the innocent.
226
Yup. Looks like Mr. Douthat's piousness opened a door.
1
Gee, why can't we all get along, gemli? Why not 14 points? The real world is messy and ugly and always has been. Good luck halving your agenda enacted.
I couldn't agree more with you about Hurricane Katrina but the Ukraine is another matter. We really can't be the world's policeman or den mother. When we do take on these responsibilities we often leave matters worse.
I couldn't agree more with you about Hurricane Katrina but the Ukraine is another matter. We really can't be the world's policeman or den mother. When we do take on these responsibilities we often leave matters worse.
4
Note that Trump's wall may be ruinously expensive, but he wants to get Mexicans and U.S. Democrats to pay for it, so, really ... who cares?
1
Syria has had a population growth rate that remains one of the world's highest - at about 2.4 percent.
1950 3,495,000
2015 22,878,524
At the center of the Syrian problem is the Islamic belief and custom of large family size and the encouragement—at least among those who can afford it, of polygamy. As a result, the population in Syria has exploded as at the same time agricultural land and water resources have been depleted. In Syria the break point has been reached. Many Syrians find themselves left in the wasted land of their forefathers.
Other Middle Eastern countries will soon be sinking into the same chaotic disorganization. It will be very difficult for them to maintain any form of civil society. Wherever it occurs, extremist groups will be attempting to dominate.
This “wasted land of their forefathers” scenario is being played out throughout the planet. A very good subject to be put on Pope Francis’ list – and yours too for another op-ed.
www.InquiryAbraham.com