The only realistic and sensible plan is to protect Europe from the deluge by effectively guarding its borders and FORCING peace on Syria -- by working with Russia and supporting Assad in utterly defeating and crushing the Islamists. Syria was a bastion of tolerance and stability in the MIddle East before the globalist Neocons stirred up trouble there by actively encouraging and supporting Islamist rebels.
12
The European nations that bomb and help to destabilize governments in countries like Libya and Syria are now reaping their rewards.
1
Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq, now Syria. All of these phony countries cobbled together from warring tribes within colonial or nationalist borders are falling apart. I would do exactly as these people are doing.
There's no sending them back. But an open-arms policy would just increase the flow manyfold. So what to do?
The EU should announce harsh sanctions, set up a few grim refugee camps for show, then quietly ship the rest to wealthy Muslim countries where, the Prophet said, they should be welcomed.
There's no sending them back. But an open-arms policy would just increase the flow manyfold. So what to do?
The EU should announce harsh sanctions, set up a few grim refugee camps for show, then quietly ship the rest to wealthy Muslim countries where, the Prophet said, they should be welcomed.
3
The exodus from Syria and Iraq is due to the chaos America created during its
Iraq War. That war replaced a secular ruler with an incompetent Shia who
made it his business to drive out the Christians from Mosul and the entire country more generally. ISIL is a Sunni reaction to the Shia incompetent the
Americans installed as leader. The exodus from northern Africa is due to America's overthrow of the relatively secular Qadaffi even though America
promised not to do so. America should take in the refugees. W created the mess. Send them all to Dallas.
Iraq War. That war replaced a secular ruler with an incompetent Shia who
made it his business to drive out the Christians from Mosul and the entire country more generally. ISIL is a Sunni reaction to the Shia incompetent the
Americans installed as leader. The exodus from northern Africa is due to America's overthrow of the relatively secular Qadaffi even though America
promised not to do so. America should take in the refugees. W created the mess. Send them all to Dallas.
4
I wonder why Afghans, Iraqis and Syrians - mostly all Muslim, don't find refuge and asylum in Kuwait, UAE, Saudi or Iran. The answer is that in these neighboring countries (where one can actually walk without the dangers of crossing a sea) do not accept the migrants. Some of the golf countries are anyhow "importing" thousands of laborers from India, Bangladesh and Asia. Rather than imposing on Europe to accept Middle Eastern refugees, the international organizations should exert same pressure on the golf's countries.
In a similar approach, some African countries should be encouraged to integrate the migrants.
In a similar approach, some African countries should be encouraged to integrate the migrants.
11
The coalition of nations that joined the Bush wars against the Middle East should pay the price of their folly, and offer a safe haven for refugees. The U.S. Should be top of the list. There are consequences to policies promoted by our military-industrial interests, and it's time to pay the piper. Jordan, Lebanon, and Turkey did not ask for these wars. Why should they be made to absorb the refugees, when it is the U.S. and it's Republican madmen who promoted a foreign policy that deliberately creates chaos in the Middle East. Chaos has followed U.S foreign policy in the Middle East since 1948, and British/French foreign policy since the start of the last century. So why are those nations taking in the least number of refugees? Hypocrisy.
3
Of course, the NYT and US-ers conveniently forget that Europe is stuck with the mess created by the US of A, by sticking their ugly nose in everybody else's affairs (Iraq, Libya, Yemen etc.,) and destabilizing the Middle East, based on lies and willful ignorance. Donald "Duck" Trump wants Mexico to pay for a wall between the US and Mexico to keep undocumented immigrants out and deport the 11 million who are already there. So, I believe that the US should pay for the refugees from the mess they have created, and the Bush-Rumsfeld-Cheney gang be hauled before the International Court for Crimes against Humanity, but, of course, that won't happen because the US and US-ers consider themselves morally superior to all.
11
Europe faces a Hobson's choice with regard to the migrant crisis. Either refuse entry and be faced with charges of hypocrisy and cruelty in the face of real suffering in the short term or admit the migrants in numbers that will cause the ruination of their countries in the long run.
Has anyone noticed that migrants aren't clamoring to enter Russia, China, India or Pakistan? Why not?
Has anyone noticed that migrants aren't clamoring to enter Russia, China, India or Pakistan? Why not?
17
This is dress rehearsal for the migrations that will take place as the seas rise. Get used to it, folks.
In the present case, however, it would be useful to distinguish between Syrians and others fleeing unimaginable violence (to the send-em-back folks: see Aleppo, see barrel bombs, see ISIS, see etc.), migrants for whom the passage to home is closed (see sub-Saharan laborers in Lybia who would be killed if they go south, killed if they stay, and may possibly not drown if they go north), and economic migrants.
We have not done a good job at this in our own hemisphere. Again, in preparation for future migrations that will be every bit as distressing, we need to develop policies and procedures to be humanitarian where humanitarianism is called for and firm where firmness is called for, and we need to be able to tell the difference!
By the way, there are a lot of talented professionals coming out of Syria. We should grab some.
In the present case, however, it would be useful to distinguish between Syrians and others fleeing unimaginable violence (to the send-em-back folks: see Aleppo, see barrel bombs, see ISIS, see etc.), migrants for whom the passage to home is closed (see sub-Saharan laborers in Lybia who would be killed if they go south, killed if they stay, and may possibly not drown if they go north), and economic migrants.
We have not done a good job at this in our own hemisphere. Again, in preparation for future migrations that will be every bit as distressing, we need to develop policies and procedures to be humanitarian where humanitarianism is called for and firm where firmness is called for, and we need to be able to tell the difference!
By the way, there are a lot of talented professionals coming out of Syria. We should grab some.
6
The only people that are critical of Europe's right to deny illegal immigrants are those that are uninformed, and misled by the NYTimes and other far left media outlets.
But for the life of me, I don't understand how Europe is responsible for the immigrants that died when it was and is the smugglers that entice, collect money, and then essentially murder their customers.
But for the life of me, I don't understand how Europe is responsible for the immigrants that died when it was and is the smugglers that entice, collect money, and then essentially murder their customers.
21
Europe and North America should do more to halt the migration from Africa, Asia and the middle east by developing regions within countries that have become major centers of asylum seekers leaving their country at a pace with which Europe cannot cope with. It will be far more humanitarian to be served within one's own country even though by foreign nations or EU. Multinationals can provide jobs for the asylum seekers within their own country. Shiploads of humanitarian aid can then be shipped to these countries and may be the red cross and other NGOs can chip in. Governments from where people are desperately leaving need to allow such foreign intervention in the crises as they are at fault in pushing their own countrymen and women into Europe.
1
Obviously, there is no simple solution to the migrant problem. Letting migrants die is not much different from killing them. First, a nation must ask itself if it is going to make moral and ethical decisions with regard to people desperately seeking asylum? Second, what are the limits, are they flexible, and how will they enforce those limits? It's not fair to the existing population in any country to permit a flood of migrants to seriously damage their way of life, so limits have to be drawn. If there only were another planet that could accommodate human life and a way to relocate those who would be willing to "relocate!"
2
Like fleeing your home that is on fire, making no effort to extinguish it, to break into your neighbor's home and bring along the gas can and matches.
6
The EU had a rosy start; but then Greece happened, and then came this refugee crisis. Now we see our leaders in their true colours. It is not a beautiful sight.
Some people call these refugees illegal immigrants. No, they are not; they are fleeing - among other things - the results of an illegal war started by the U.S. and UK. They are refugees.
The EU is rich and powerful, and yet our timid leaders are whining about their duty to help people in need. Instead, they are erecting walls and barriers to keep these refugees out.
President Reagan told Mr. Gorbachev to "tear down this wall." The Berlin wall came down, and the rest is history.
Now we are putting them up again. How pitiful is that?
Some people call these refugees illegal immigrants. No, they are not; they are fleeing - among other things - the results of an illegal war started by the U.S. and UK. They are refugees.
The EU is rich and powerful, and yet our timid leaders are whining about their duty to help people in need. Instead, they are erecting walls and barriers to keep these refugees out.
President Reagan told Mr. Gorbachev to "tear down this wall." The Berlin wall came down, and the rest is history.
Now we are putting them up again. How pitiful is that?
5
They have led us (the US) down the dithering path as well. How is it working out for you? It is an unmitigated disaster in the US.
Is it that difficult to just say "NO"? Hire some mercenaries from North Korea as they have an army.
Is it that difficult to just say "NO"? Hire some mercenaries from North Korea as they have an army.
1
This disaster is everybody's problem, but is being treated as nobody's problem. Europe alone cannot absorb the vast numbers of migrants fleeing war in hellholes like Iraq and Syria. The entire world needs to step up and absorb these desperate men, women and children and this needs to be done NOW.
7
I love all the indignation in the comments section. Funny - a majority of the commenters want Europe to "grow a spine" and "send those people back." Perhaps everyone needs to stop and think about this at a couple different levels. First, humanitarian. Simple enough, right? Second, the culpability of Europe and the US in this whole mess. Remember Iraq war? Remember Arab Spring? No one wants to take responsibility for those things now. Let's not forget colonialism - not that long ago, many European countries and the US raped and pillaged much of the world. The chickens are simply coming home to roost. Welcome to the beginnings of a truly dystopian world.
8
One way to prevent these tragic deaths is to keep the people in their own countries.
9
Didn't the EU powers want to displace Colonel Qaddafi to stem the tide of refugees? So much for use of military to stabilize.
Isn't Russia's support of Assad prolonging the Syrian mess? Europeans sew the seeds of the fruits of misery they now must eat.
Of course, George W. Bush did his part.
Isn't Russia's support of Assad prolonging the Syrian mess? Europeans sew the seeds of the fruits of misery they now must eat.
Of course, George W. Bush did his part.
3
Libya is 100% Obama's creation. The pentagon even told him - shockingly - that taking out Qaddafi wouldn't work. Congress was not consulted nor did it consent to that war. As to Syria, the NYT has been reporting on Obama training, arming and funding questionable rebels for years. Bush started the Middle East debacle, but Obama owns the escalation in Afghanistan, and all of Syria and Libya.
7
Send them back.....why is Europe under any obligation to destroy their own cultures with this mass invasion of uneducated and unskilled illegals? Each nation should protect it's OWN citizens first....God only knows how many terrorists are hidden in these masses
15
Here's the plan; send them back to where they came from where they are citizens and not refugees.
13
“While Europe is squabbling, people are dying,”
It is not the squabbling Europeans who are causing people to flee both for their survival and to lead better lives. They are fleeing evil and insanity. We have a similar issue in this hemisphere where the evil comes from totalitarian self-interests without the insane religious rationale. Why are we even allowing nations who support this to be members of the U.N. and supporting their legitimacy? Countries who terrorize their own people have no right to exist. If they continue to thrive, every citizen of every nation will eventually be looking for a refuge.
It is not the squabbling Europeans who are causing people to flee both for their survival and to lead better lives. They are fleeing evil and insanity. We have a similar issue in this hemisphere where the evil comes from totalitarian self-interests without the insane religious rationale. Why are we even allowing nations who support this to be members of the U.N. and supporting their legitimacy? Countries who terrorize their own people have no right to exist. If they continue to thrive, every citizen of every nation will eventually be looking for a refuge.
7
The western countries and in particular the US needs to take much more responsibility for this influx of peoples from these war torn countries.
The US has unleashed an unraveling across the Middle East and in parts of Africa from trade & economic policies, wars, occupations, economic sanctions - millions upon millions of people have been displaced and driven out through horrific conditions, abuses and violence unleashed by this unraveling.
The root causes of this migration include the west!
Wake - up folks!
The US has unleashed an unraveling across the Middle East and in parts of Africa from trade & economic policies, wars, occupations, economic sanctions - millions upon millions of people have been displaced and driven out through horrific conditions, abuses and violence unleashed by this unraveling.
The root causes of this migration include the west!
Wake - up folks!
5
My son lived in Sweden for 15 years. In Sweden, you must read, write and speak 5,000 words of Swedish if you want to be hired for a job. Sweden's open door policy toward Muslim immigrants backfired.
What the Swedes found was that these immigrants are not willing to assimilate to the cultures of the countries they are migrating to. They want to bring their old country to the new country. Swedes are hugely westernized as a culture. Most Swedes are highly educated, women are considered the head of the household and there are not restrictions on women in public as in Middle Eastern countries. Sweden is also not a specifically religious country. You can see immediately where the problems lie when you have Muslims who attempt to turn a basically non-religious culture into a theocratic society.
Swedes have every right to demand immigrants assimilate. Swedes love their Swedish history, heritage and culture. Should every country of the world suddenly toss its culture and heritage to pander to immigrants?
This is a red flag people in the US also need to consider. When people come to the US, they used to leave their "old country" behind. Not so today. Now, Americans born and bred are expected to erase their American heritage, their language and their history so as not to "offend" immigrants.
Certainly, we all appreciate the contributions immigrants bring from their old country ways. Americans are expected to be bi or tri-lingual in our own country?
What the Swedes found was that these immigrants are not willing to assimilate to the cultures of the countries they are migrating to. They want to bring their old country to the new country. Swedes are hugely westernized as a culture. Most Swedes are highly educated, women are considered the head of the household and there are not restrictions on women in public as in Middle Eastern countries. Sweden is also not a specifically religious country. You can see immediately where the problems lie when you have Muslims who attempt to turn a basically non-religious culture into a theocratic society.
Swedes have every right to demand immigrants assimilate. Swedes love their Swedish history, heritage and culture. Should every country of the world suddenly toss its culture and heritage to pander to immigrants?
This is a red flag people in the US also need to consider. When people come to the US, they used to leave their "old country" behind. Not so today. Now, Americans born and bred are expected to erase their American heritage, their language and their history so as not to "offend" immigrants.
Certainly, we all appreciate the contributions immigrants bring from their old country ways. Americans are expected to be bi or tri-lingual in our own country?
22
Despite legislation that all official materials would only be printed in English, California continues to translate all public materials into 9 languages. Nine. Why? People refuse to assimilate.
16
"The overthrow of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, which European nations assisted in, has produced a chaotic Libya. The result has been in essence a failed state very close to Europe, even as the Continent has been reluctant to deal with consequences it helped create.
Those effects have included large numbers of migrants and asylum seekers, both Libyan and foreign, who now use the territory as a launching pad, and a major criminal economy built on people smuggling."
The above plus Benghazi are Hillary's accomplishments.
Those effects have included large numbers of migrants and asylum seekers, both Libyan and foreign, who now use the territory as a launching pad, and a major criminal economy built on people smuggling."
The above plus Benghazi are Hillary's accomplishments.
4
Please refrain from calling the refugees "migrants." The vast majority of the people escaping into Europe are refugees and asylum seekers that have risked their lives to avoid certain death. It is contributing to the anti-immigrant sentiments we see reflected in reader responses.
8
According to Collins English Dictionary:
Migrant: 1. a person or animal that moves from one region, place, or country to another (from Latin migrāre to change one's abode)
These are people moving from one region to another, therefore they ARE migrants.
Migrant: 1. a person or animal that moves from one region, place, or country to another (from Latin migrāre to change one's abode)
These are people moving from one region to another, therefore they ARE migrants.
7
You are missing the point. The big issue and the big dilemma that Europe faces is that the majority of these people are not refugees, some are, but the majority are not. Although there are families among the migrants, most are young men, and some of these young men come from countries that are not in war (e.g. Pakistan, south Balcan, etc.). When they are appropriately screened, very few of them are found to be actual refugees, some may be, but not the majority. And they have no intention of staying in refugee camps in just any country, they want to move on to wealthier countries like Germany or Scandinavia.
17
Not according to international law. Please see the article demonstrating the legal difference in the NYT.
2
To my mind the UN hasn't even begun to address what its job must be.
Given the enormous cost of war in lives, money and time, the UN needs to have plans in place to rescue refugees, to set down frameworks for democracies, to help reclaim failed states, and to share the burden.
Every crisis, no matter how predictable, seems to land on a new shore. C'mon. This is old turf. Why can't the UN take governance teaching online, along with education, good public health measures, climate change and model legal frameworks. Why can't aid be bartered for common sense where possible?
Given the enormous cost of war in lives, money and time, the UN needs to have plans in place to rescue refugees, to set down frameworks for democracies, to help reclaim failed states, and to share the burden.
Every crisis, no matter how predictable, seems to land on a new shore. C'mon. This is old turf. Why can't the UN take governance teaching online, along with education, good public health measures, climate change and model legal frameworks. Why can't aid be bartered for common sense where possible?
2
World leaders need to address and implement “Population Reduction, Control and Growth” Program. Most of the population migration, issues and concerns are coming from Asia, Africa and Middle East region. Providing economic, financial and educational programs and incentives will not solve problems.
The Population Reduction, Control and Growth should be top priority for world leaders as well UN bodies. At present projected population growth the finite world resources will not provide basic human needs in the years to come. UN should set up special program and set population reduction targets for these countries and regions.
The Population Reduction, Control and Growth should be top priority for world leaders as well UN bodies. At present projected population growth the finite world resources will not provide basic human needs in the years to come. UN should set up special program and set population reduction targets for these countries and regions.
7
The EU should be ashamed of itself for not doing anything to help these folks. I'd love to hear their "Christian" reasons for letting these people die. Those countries along the Mediterranean Ocean especially should, at the very least, feed and shelter these folks until permanent arrangements can be made. And for God's sake let's get them out of the water!
As you raised the religious issue, I'd also like to see what the Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist countries are doing for displaced Middle Easterners and North Africans.
5
Are you expecting countries like Greece, for example, which is practically bankrupt with 50% unemployment rate among the young, to feed and shelter indefinitely hundreds of thousands of people? build them shelters? common people provide some help as they can, but they come in numbers that are impossible to handle. And they take over public spaces, parks, train stations, etc. Unless they are stopped, it could get much worse and nasty. The political leaders need to step in and come up with a strategy to protect the borders, send most of these people back, since most do not qualify as refugees when they are thoroughly examined.
6
All nations should adopt the Australian model. If people want to come to a country to settle down they must apply or obtain a visa. What we are seeing is just the tip of the iceberg. The population explosion is not slowing down it is only going to get worse. Economic refugees should stay in their home countries and overturn their corrupt governments which are the cause of their problems in the first place. No country is under any obligation to take in refugees by their own choice.To shame any country to taking refugees is totally wrongheaded. Why doesn't each family on the planet give their living room to a refugee?
Refugees from war-torn regions is a more complex issue to deal with and requires more serious deliberation,
Refugees from war-torn regions is a more complex issue to deal with and requires more serious deliberation,
11
This is a problem on a world scale. Europe is being overwhelmed on short order and it consists of a whole group of countries with individual governments that need to make decisions both encompassing European Union norms and their own policies and regulations; they need to consider social, economic and sheer physical impacts. While, yes, the response has been very awkward and discomforting to say the least, critics should understand the circumstances.
And where is the UN? This is precisely the kind of crisis in which the UN should be playing a very major role, if only because various prominent members of the UN do not have clean hands in the factors allowing the Syrian conflict to reach the stage that it has and the UN was created in the first place to deal with major international crises, of which this is a prime case. If the UN is starved of resources, its members need to augment them. If the UN is simply too inefficient, the members should shake it up. The UN is the sum of its members, sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, more is needed.
Other Middle Eastern countries, Russia, the US, Canada, etc., should be doing much more to alleviate the pressure of this situation and finding ways of extinguishing the root causes.
And where is the UN? This is precisely the kind of crisis in which the UN should be playing a very major role, if only because various prominent members of the UN do not have clean hands in the factors allowing the Syrian conflict to reach the stage that it has and the UN was created in the first place to deal with major international crises, of which this is a prime case. If the UN is starved of resources, its members need to augment them. If the UN is simply too inefficient, the members should shake it up. The UN is the sum of its members, sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now, more is needed.
Other Middle Eastern countries, Russia, the US, Canada, etc., should be doing much more to alleviate the pressure of this situation and finding ways of extinguishing the root causes.
9
Europe tore the world apart twice in the 20th Century and in the 19th Century it created the overseas empires that in the 20th Century spawned artificial, ungovernable, mismanaged nations out of the chaos of rapacious colonialism.
It owes those peoples for what it did to them and to the world. So the Europeans ought to shut up and remember the harm they did. In fact the United States twice saved them from themselves. No more. They can either step up to their historic responsibilities or be damned forever again for not.
And Germany, Germany above all -- responsible for the deaths of tens of millions and the uprooting and desolation of tens of millions more in WWII -- Germany has a special debt to the entire world.
Any German who protests against accepting refugees is a nasty, sad and sorry excuse for a human being and one who has learned nothing from history.
It owes those peoples for what it did to them and to the world. So the Europeans ought to shut up and remember the harm they did. In fact the United States twice saved them from themselves. No more. They can either step up to their historic responsibilities or be damned forever again for not.
And Germany, Germany above all -- responsible for the deaths of tens of millions and the uprooting and desolation of tens of millions more in WWII -- Germany has a special debt to the entire world.
Any German who protests against accepting refugees is a nasty, sad and sorry excuse for a human being and one who has learned nothing from history.
2
The Greek crisis showed that the EU is a joke. Now this.
6
I wonder if anyone sees what is really happening?
The migrants are an Islamic Trojan Horse that will eventually concquer Europe.
How many terroists are imbedded within the migrants?
The migrants are an Islamic Trojan Horse that will eventually concquer Europe.
How many terroists are imbedded within the migrants?
20
Large pluralities of the citizens of these EU countries don't want these people as permanent residents. However, their spineless governments ignore popular will and then wonder why there is growing anti-immigrant activity some of it violent.
15
History repeats itself ...the other way round.
You must be having the same thoughts I've had while watching this crisis over the months: for a couple of centuries, the Europeans spread out over the Maghreb and the Middle East, leading to great cultural changes and resentments. Then they retreated. Now a migration is coming the other way. Different motivations, but also a movement that includes both the talented and the unwanted.
1
Interestingly, the country that is in many ways the best suited to lots of immigrants from moderate Islamic persuasions is Russia. Number one, it needs population--a lot. Second, it has more land than it can ever fill. Third, it already has a millenial history of nations living together under one roof; if not happily, at least live and let live. Christians, Muslims, Animists, Buddhists--you name it, they're already there. How about Kazakhstan? Rich as can be with a Christian and moderate Muslim population. There doesn't seem to be much imagination in solving this problem. And it seems to me that Europe, if it wants to continue to exist as it has been, should bite the bullet and reach out to Putin on this issue. Pay him to re-settle immigrants.
11
It's really interesting to see how much the comments contrast with the sentiment of this article, and it highlights how "elitist" and out of touch The Times has become.
23
Calling the migrant crisis a "failure of geopolitics" is biased writing. It is a "result of geopolitics." It is mostly a migration toward traditionally Cristian counties, with freedoms, opportunities, security, rule of law, voting for power - and welfare systems How many migrants try for Russia, China, India or the Muslim world? Unfortunately, once the migrants get somewhere many want to bring their culture with them and don't seem to want to fit in with the culture that has proved so beneficial to the citizens of the host countries.
18
Maybe the EU should have Mexico pay to build a wall for them.
1
Most of the migrants are from Libya, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan...
...If you broke it, you own it.
...If you broke it, you own it.
7
For too many years economic self-interest has exploited the weaker regions of the world by those more affluent and advanced.
There now has to be a massive intervention on a global scale under the auspices of the UN to create a "super Marshall Plan" for all of the world's poverty and strife ridden regions.
There is no reason on Earth why people should feel obliged to leave their ancestral homelands and cultures except for those of corruption, greed and despotism which are not forces of nature but of human wickedness.
The UN must take over the administration of all regions in distress until such time as local, stable, representative government with political boundaries re-established reflecting common ethnic and cultural traditions - NO MORE DIVIDE AND RULE!
There is no other option. We have had a relatively free ride for too long on the backs of the oppressed whose suffering we all have preferred to ignore. Do not blame the resurgence of European nationalism on those who are leading it, the fault is with you and I for allowing things to come to this atrocious state of affairs.
Have no doubt, the future of humanity is at stake and you’d better believe it that "united we stand or divided we fall".
There is only one race, the human race, which was created in God's image.
There now has to be a massive intervention on a global scale under the auspices of the UN to create a "super Marshall Plan" for all of the world's poverty and strife ridden regions.
There is no reason on Earth why people should feel obliged to leave their ancestral homelands and cultures except for those of corruption, greed and despotism which are not forces of nature but of human wickedness.
The UN must take over the administration of all regions in distress until such time as local, stable, representative government with political boundaries re-established reflecting common ethnic and cultural traditions - NO MORE DIVIDE AND RULE!
There is no other option. We have had a relatively free ride for too long on the backs of the oppressed whose suffering we all have preferred to ignore. Do not blame the resurgence of European nationalism on those who are leading it, the fault is with you and I for allowing things to come to this atrocious state of affairs.
Have no doubt, the future of humanity is at stake and you’d better believe it that "united we stand or divided we fall".
There is only one race, the human race, which was created in God's image.
2
The problem with illegal immigration, both in Europe and the Mexican border, is that the brokers of who arrange this sleazy and deadly form of human trafficking. They create the means by which the human tragedy unfolds and it is they who should be located and neutralized.
Take them out of the equation and much of the misery will end.
Take them out of the equation and much of the misery will end.
4
Europe is no different than the United States as long as the immigrat looks like us and their religion is the same as ours they are OK. If they look different that is a problem and if they have a different religion that will not work. Should not decent jobs, good housing, healthcare and quality education be the path to assimilation?
I've heard a goodly number of reports where European navy or coast guard units "rescued" migrants from sinking ships in the Mediterranean. But it's never related if they were returned to the coast of Libya where those boats originated.
If being on a ship and calling MayDay is enough to get delivered into Europe, then that could be become the preferred means of entry.
If being on a ship and calling MayDay is enough to get delivered into Europe, then that could be become the preferred means of entry.
6
The major problem with the current waves of immigrants that are flooding Europe is that they are going to create "foreign cities" in the middle of the cities in which they settle. They will not attempt to be assimilated into the culture and fabric of their host country. More likely, they will expect their hosts to change to suit them, which will have long term implications for the host society. Is it any wonder, therefore, that many countries in Europe have strong reservations about receiving them?
22
One of the key issues in the Syrian conflict over the past years has been the supply of weaponry to both sides, which has kept the fighting going, and the migrants running away in the EU. Russia continues to supply the Syrian military with weapons and equipment, until now Qatar is widely believed to have been the main supplier of weapons to the rebels and, according to the UN, Libya is the primary source of the illegal weapons trade that is fueling conflicts in at least 14 countries around the world, and blocks UN action on EU migrant plan, while Russia (whose main interests is the weakening of EU to impose its trades) is refusing to give her consent (without something in exchange ..) for UN action aimed at endorsing Europe's military plan to fight migrant smugglers in the Mediterranean. So, I think that Russia has planned the migrants invasion of the EU only to impose her will to Ukraine and to many other Countries at her closer boarders.
2
No country should be forced into taking them.
14
Thank God these illegal immigrants don't have a direct path to get to the United States. I just read this morning that the Democratic National Committee (Debbie Wasserman Shultz) has hired an illegal immigrant to work on political campaigns this cycle--Really? Really!
The people in Germany, England, Sweden, etc. are just like Americans in wanting to protect their citizens from an overwhelming influx of mostly Muslims and other undesirables that refuse to assimilate into our culture. We just experienced a horrible tragedy here in Chattanooga where a Muslim whose family had been allowed to come here decided to go on a killing spree after we had provided food, shelter, clothing and an education to him and his entire family--it is very remindful of the Boston bombers and how they became radicalized and attacked the very people who had taken them in and cared for them for years.
When will we learn? Is it already too late? It is definitely too late for the five young servicemen who were slaughtered here in Chattanooga!
The people in Germany, England, Sweden, etc. are just like Americans in wanting to protect their citizens from an overwhelming influx of mostly Muslims and other undesirables that refuse to assimilate into our culture. We just experienced a horrible tragedy here in Chattanooga where a Muslim whose family had been allowed to come here decided to go on a killing spree after we had provided food, shelter, clothing and an education to him and his entire family--it is very remindful of the Boston bombers and how they became radicalized and attacked the very people who had taken them in and cared for them for years.
When will we learn? Is it already too late? It is definitely too late for the five young servicemen who were slaughtered here in Chattanooga!
14
The fleeing of the populations in the Middle East is the outcome of a tepid policy towards terrorism. Refugees by the hundreds of thousands would rather die trying to escape than stay in their homeland, true desperation. World leaders, isnt it easier to spend the money to eliminate the oppressors so people can live and work in their own countries than it is to absorb all these people into a society that is a different for them as it is for you? Our President won't call it what it is, terrorism, or do anything about it but the massive immigration proves his position wrong. Now, leaders of the world, put on your big boy pants, get the bullies out of the Middle East so the citizens of theses countries can go home and live their lives!
4
Interesting to read what many enlightened NYT-readers from far far away comment what Europe should do . Close your boarders, send them back or protect your territory. Other than most Americans many older Europeans remember the second world word themselves or at least they heard their grandparents tell the stories of having to flee their home country. So they do consider hosting people who have fled wars and misery as their obligation. Most asylum seekers from Afghanistan and Iraq left their country as the US involvemenr has made their home countries failed states with no future. Bombing Syria and Assad wouldn´t be an option either as Russia, as well as many Gulf countries do support the regime with money and weapons. Even if Assad would be gone what would happen to Syria ? It would become the same war-torn nation like Iraq, on top of that it would allow ISIS to control even bigger patches of the country and to install their terror regime with no future for any liberal and well educated Syrian. Instead of pointing fingers on Europe the US should open their boarders for a few million refugees, also forcing their closest European ally ( the UK) to let in a fare share of refugees, instead of completely closing their boarders. Pressure on Saudi-Arabia ( who currently causes the next reason for people fleeing their home country by bombing Yemen) to support their muslim brothers with money and a safe place to live as well as other Gulf states is also what the US can do.
18
What started the Arab Spring? When was it sensible to overthrow the dictators, when there is no any kind of structure to replace it? This is all the result of wrong policies. The dictators can at least keep their people in. People, who have no idea what the life in freedom demands of them. It is just stupidity from the world leaders that has caused all this.
Developed States promised to spend 0.7% of GNP on overseas aid.
UK spends over 0.7% (much of it supporting refugees in or near their home countries).
Germany spends 0.38%.
USA spends 0.19%.
Perhaps Germans should press Germany to keep its promise on aid rather than criticising the UK?
And I wonder if Germany is so keen to shift the burden to others because it knows it can'stop migrants coming with the open broders (Schengen) it lobbied for.
PS
And the UK also took a net 330,000 migrants last year - very many poor.
UK spends over 0.7% (much of it supporting refugees in or near their home countries).
Germany spends 0.38%.
USA spends 0.19%.
Perhaps Germans should press Germany to keep its promise on aid rather than criticising the UK?
And I wonder if Germany is so keen to shift the burden to others because it knows it can'stop migrants coming with the open broders (Schengen) it lobbied for.
PS
And the UK also took a net 330,000 migrants last year - very many poor.
2
Merkel is right that the migration crisis is a bigger deal than the Greek crisis, but her solution is a disaster. The crisis issue is whether Europe will survive as a bulwark of Western Civilization or go under to an invasion of peoples who are, culturally-speaking, radically different from Europeans.
Do you want your daughters to be forced to wear burkas? Do you favor "honor" killings? Do you think FGM is a great practice that Europe has somehow missed? Do you want to subjugate (or kill, as the case may be) Jews and Christians (let alone more exotic religions)? Do you think that every person who would rather be living in Europe instead of the hell-hole where he was born should be entitled to be supported by European taxpayers?
If yoi believe in all the above then Merkel is your leader and the NYT is your newspaper.
Do you want your daughters to be forced to wear burkas? Do you favor "honor" killings? Do you think FGM is a great practice that Europe has somehow missed? Do you want to subjugate (or kill, as the case may be) Jews and Christians (let alone more exotic religions)? Do you think that every person who would rather be living in Europe instead of the hell-hole where he was born should be entitled to be supported by European taxpayers?
If yoi believe in all the above then Merkel is your leader and the NYT is your newspaper.
13
Although these migrants come to Europe, because it is a closer destination for them, because they fleeing their home countries - some of them war-torn - in Africa, the Middle East and Southwest Asia for various reasons.
But it is equally wrong for the international community to see this as a European problem. Other countries should help as well to resettle these refugees. Such a grand project had been achieved before. After the Vietnam war, more than 1.3 million refugees from Indochina were resettled in Europe, North America and other parts of the world. Why can´t it be done this time?
But it is equally wrong for the international community to see this as a European problem. Other countries should help as well to resettle these refugees. Such a grand project had been achieved before. After the Vietnam war, more than 1.3 million refugees from Indochina were resettled in Europe, North America and other parts of the world. Why can´t it be done this time?
5
The scale of this migration is much larger. We're looking at 1 million arrivals in Europe per year, which is clearly unsustainable. Also, France and the U.S. were at war with Vietnam. We are not with sub-Saharan Africa, Pakistan, Eritrea, etc. Are you advocating open borders?
1
Europeans have themselves to blame. I mean European authorities. Their policy of hospitality breeds freeloaders, illegals and immigrants from Africa and other Muslim countries. Unfortunately, current policy of Obama is not different from theirs. I am against illegal immigration, i am against the 14th Amendment!
4
There would not be a crisis or any deaths from migration if Europe were to make it clear that you can not stay in their countries and will be returned home. The only real solution is to help the people in their own countries which is what America tries to do but then we are called imperialists by the left. Liberals support mass migrations and this is what it has wrought.
5
Missing from the discussion is the notion that a global, not just European response is required. While some countries in Europe certainly bear a portion of the responsibility for the mess the Middle-East has become, the US and Israel are primarily responsible and should be assisting commensurate with their culpability.
4
I agree that Europe is not handling the immigration well, but i like to remind everyone that the problem is the consequence of USA not been able to handle the situation in Syria and Libya, because the war multi million business is more important than civilians safety
4
Where is WHO (World Health Organization)? As was stated rich countries like Saudi Arabia need to be involved in any negotiating that occurs in treating this world problem. This is also a problem that in part was caused by the destabilization of the Middle East...thank you George Bush.
4
Where is the USA in all this? We haven't heard much from your political elite. What happened to "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"?
Doesn't apply to Moslems perhaps?
Doesn't apply to Moslems perhaps?
6
Illegal immigration to the US seems to be more of a geographic privilege. If you can get across out southern border, you can stay. We benefit from two oceans insulating us. However, I note that the U.S. Is not welcoming of Haitians and other Caribbean peoples. After the tragic earthquake in Haiti, Obama noted that Haitians fleeing to the U.S. Would be turned back. He has a different policy for Hispanics, however.
1
As an European, I would not care of what the European Governments say and do, because basically they ignore the Migrant Crisis because it is an Italian and Greek problem.
Their response follows the foolish Dublin's resolution, where the EU Chiefs of State decided that the receiving country has to care of the migrants.
Now that Ms Merkel found a truck of dead people behind the doorsteps, she suddenly decided to host 5000 Syrians escaping the war.
News write that so Ms Merkel, from the austerity lady became a true stateswoman.
I don't think so, because Germany has a great budget surplus, which if kept so does no fruits and puts Germany out of the EU budget rules.
Hosting the Syrians and putting them at work, the budget surplus will be transformed into production capital, which will raise the national capital, absorbing the unproductive excess of surplus.
In other words, the German greatness is a pure economic calculation, not a sincere migrant's humanitarian help, on which Ms Merkel has always been chilly.
Once more I think that the mind of this sudden change is still her accountant, Mr Schäuble, and her calculated humanitarian action will help once more her political image for the next fall German general election, with the target to become chancellor for life.
So work the things in Europe, being the EU a Nation-less Union of Nationalistic States, where everybody only thinks and acts egoistically, without any cohesion and solidarity.
Their response follows the foolish Dublin's resolution, where the EU Chiefs of State decided that the receiving country has to care of the migrants.
Now that Ms Merkel found a truck of dead people behind the doorsteps, she suddenly decided to host 5000 Syrians escaping the war.
News write that so Ms Merkel, from the austerity lady became a true stateswoman.
I don't think so, because Germany has a great budget surplus, which if kept so does no fruits and puts Germany out of the EU budget rules.
Hosting the Syrians and putting them at work, the budget surplus will be transformed into production capital, which will raise the national capital, absorbing the unproductive excess of surplus.
In other words, the German greatness is a pure economic calculation, not a sincere migrant's humanitarian help, on which Ms Merkel has always been chilly.
Once more I think that the mind of this sudden change is still her accountant, Mr Schäuble, and her calculated humanitarian action will help once more her political image for the next fall German general election, with the target to become chancellor for life.
So work the things in Europe, being the EU a Nation-less Union of Nationalistic States, where everybody only thinks and acts egoistically, without any cohesion and solidarity.
3
There is only one acceptable long-term solution, which is to eliminate the need for mass migration by eliminating poverty, famine and war. However, since we are so abjectly failing on that, there is no moral justification for the EU not to allow many migrants to enter and be treated fairly.
We stick our heads in the sand and try to pretend we don't realise the situations these migrants are coming from. But deep down we know. And we know that historically, and sometimes up to the present day, we Europeans are part of the reason for the problems these people are still trying to escape from.
The only legitimate reason I have heard for rejecting migrants and refugees is that, by accepting them, we just encourage more to put their lives at risk. But we know how to fix that if we want - we need to enable asylum seekers to seek asylum before travelling. There is absolutely no moral or logistical argument against enabling that, but we don't because we realise that it will mean we will have to accept that many of these people legitimately deserve asylum.
As a normally proud European, I am ashamed to be European right now. I remember a time when we were the emirants, the Irish going to the US, and for all we might hear about difficult conditions and racism for the first generations, there was no question of the US refusing to let them in.
We stick our heads in the sand and try to pretend we don't realise the situations these migrants are coming from. But deep down we know. And we know that historically, and sometimes up to the present day, we Europeans are part of the reason for the problems these people are still trying to escape from.
The only legitimate reason I have heard for rejecting migrants and refugees is that, by accepting them, we just encourage more to put their lives at risk. But we know how to fix that if we want - we need to enable asylum seekers to seek asylum before travelling. There is absolutely no moral or logistical argument against enabling that, but we don't because we realise that it will mean we will have to accept that many of these people legitimately deserve asylum.
As a normally proud European, I am ashamed to be European right now. I remember a time when we were the emirants, the Irish going to the US, and for all we might hear about difficult conditions and racism for the first generations, there was no question of the US refusing to let them in.
16
One major problem in the Middle East is that there is no no major power to stabilize the region. Since the Osman empire has been destroyed by the Western allies, the region has seen more or less only failed states. External powers like the US, UK and France have repeatedly demonstrated over a period of 100 years that they are unable to do this job (stabilize the region). The solution could be to give back Erdogan his Osman empire (incl. North Africa) and do the job. However, then we have live with a new major power in the middle east
2
No one wants the refugees from the Middle East and Africa. The detritis of war and poverty, they represent a giant sucking sound on the flattened teats of the European social safety net. Even criminal trafickers are solely concerned with money, not refugee lives.
Imagine if 100 of these people appeared at your back door--dirty, hungry, many illiterate, crying in foreign tongues for food or money--and began pushing their way into your home? Would you welcome them, or call the police? What if the police said you must accept them? Your homelife would be destroyed by your "guests".
Europe faces this dilemma now. If all refugees who wish to come are absorbed, the quality of European life will diminish due to overcrowding, crime and lack of resources. Prejudices will escalate as taxpayers support the unemployable, unintegrated hoards.
Europe, and its allies, must increase security forces at the boundaries of Europe and off the coast of North Africa, to intercept traffickers, seize their vehicles and vessels, and imprison them. Intercepted refugees must be taken to international safe camps near their home countries. Spot checks of trucks, cars and taxis must be intiated in Europe.
Camps must be larger and more effective--providing care, education, asylum application processing, and keeping refugees on-site.
Militarily, the EU and US must use all measures to fight ISIS, Al Qaeda and Boko Harem with renewed vigor, including outreach to vulnerable youth through social media.
Imagine if 100 of these people appeared at your back door--dirty, hungry, many illiterate, crying in foreign tongues for food or money--and began pushing their way into your home? Would you welcome them, or call the police? What if the police said you must accept them? Your homelife would be destroyed by your "guests".
Europe faces this dilemma now. If all refugees who wish to come are absorbed, the quality of European life will diminish due to overcrowding, crime and lack of resources. Prejudices will escalate as taxpayers support the unemployable, unintegrated hoards.
Europe, and its allies, must increase security forces at the boundaries of Europe and off the coast of North Africa, to intercept traffickers, seize their vehicles and vessels, and imprison them. Intercepted refugees must be taken to international safe camps near their home countries. Spot checks of trucks, cars and taxis must be intiated in Europe.
Camps must be larger and more effective--providing care, education, asylum application processing, and keeping refugees on-site.
Militarily, the EU and US must use all measures to fight ISIS, Al Qaeda and Boko Harem with renewed vigor, including outreach to vulnerable youth through social media.
19
There is a very basic problem here on the part of the asylum "seekers", and that is that there is a formal process of seeking asylum. The fact that a person is running from something back home does not qualify them to simply enter any country in the world and allow them not just to stay there, but also to demand that the host country provide them with all temporary and permanent needs.
In the US a person must declare their request to get asylum upon arrival. At this point they are placed in detention for up to two years till their cases are verified and a decision is reached. Anyone who jumps a border and enters illegally is deemed to be here illegally and removed.
If the Europeans would declare a policy and give those seeking asylum a choice of sitting in prison for up to 2 years till a decision is rendered or that they can remove themselves most would opt for the latter.
In the US a person must declare their request to get asylum upon arrival. At this point they are placed in detention for up to two years till their cases are verified and a decision is reached. Anyone who jumps a border and enters illegally is deemed to be here illegally and removed.
If the Europeans would declare a policy and give those seeking asylum a choice of sitting in prison for up to 2 years till a decision is rendered or that they can remove themselves most would opt for the latter.
6
It is a false statement that asylum seekers in the U.S. Are detained. They are released into the general population, free to show up in court for a hearing or not. Obama recently tightened the rules as to what is a deportable offense. Now one can have multiple DUIs as well as up to 8 separate convictions for identity theft and still not be deported. Once someone gets to the U.S.,they are home free to stay here barring all but murdering someone. And as in the case of Katherine Steinle's murder in SF by a repeat , multiple re-entry felon, that's exactly the way anti-borders advocates want it.
1
1. How many refugees from Syria, Afghanistan etc is the USA willing to take? And how much more tax are US voters willing to pay to house, feed, educate and treat them?
2. Your graphic ignores the effects of other migration. The UK had net migration of 330,000 last year.
3. The UK spends over 0.7% of GNP on overseas aid. Germany and France 0.38 and 0.41%. The USA 0.19%. How about you ask why they haven't met the promises made repeatedly since 1970?
All in all I fear the NYT is ever more like the Huffington Post
2. Your graphic ignores the effects of other migration. The UK had net migration of 330,000 last year.
3. The UK spends over 0.7% of GNP on overseas aid. Germany and France 0.38 and 0.41%. The USA 0.19%. How about you ask why they haven't met the promises made repeatedly since 1970?
All in all I fear the NYT is ever more like the Huffington Post
7
I've seen videos of Army Ants rising up to go forth and take and eat all in their way. This will not stop. It is being driven not by war or hunger but the sense of entitlement that is predominant today. Everyone feels entitled to what others have and the entitlement feeling has no end. Like a cancer it will consume its host until it kills it.
The Four Horsemen have arrived.
The Four Horsemen have arrived.
9
In a fit of idealism years back, when all was nice and cozy, the Eurocrats opened up Europe's borders. And its very nice. After the passport check at St Pancras before boarding a Eurostar I can now take trains through France, Belgium and Germany (and Switzerland into Italy) without a single check on my identity. Ditto driving. But when things get difficult, first with the crisis in the Balkans, then the Greek financial crisis and now the flood of refugees from Syria etc. the gap between the heady Eurocrats in Brussels and the the people who actually live in the 27 countries, many of who struggle to keep afloat financially in the real world (not being on Eurocrat salaries with expense accounts attached) becomes apparent. The real risk (almost a certainty) is that many of these refugees will find that Europe is not as welcoming as hoped for. And once they have got over the euphoria of not having barrel bombs dropped etc. on them (and that's just gotta be a really really really good feeling) a few of them will turn militant and getting around Europe will not be so nice and cozy. I know what this is like to a degree having been born and raised in N Ireland! We're in for a bumpy ride. And, since the US is partly responsible for the mess in the Middle East, why not accept refugees there too. Anyone who is determined enough to make the dangerous journey to Europe, crossing the Med etc., is the sort of Pioneer that America should welcome!
2
By all accounts so many of these migrants appear to be healthy, robust and determined young men. I still can not understand why they are not staying in their homelands and fighting for their country.
Is anybody questioning this oddity in demographics? Should we not be concerned that so many of these men appear to be extraordinarily clever and resolved and willing to confront authority to reach their "favored" destination?
Is anybody questioning this oddity in demographics? Should we not be concerned that so many of these men appear to be extraordinarily clever and resolved and willing to confront authority to reach their "favored" destination?
13
I think we are seeing a world wide transfomation.. 19th & 18th definitions, laws, and piecemeal approaches, and even individual countries are inadequate to deal with a worldwide phenomenon, the result of stresses: political, ecological, and cultural.
We have yet to understand what is really happening on a global level, to begin to fashion a solution.
We have yet to understand what is really happening on a global level, to begin to fashion a solution.
1
Hey Nate Cohn: What's the correlation between United States "defense contractor" revenue and the number of migrants?
2
I'm shocked about the comments here.
I am german. And most of german people want to help refugees. Even poor Immigrants have the right to ask for asyl. Although they won't get it. I am proud of Germany.we will take the challenge. Because we have to take responsibility as a rich country. There are even germans who share there home with refugees.
It will not be easy, but i am sure that WE (Germany) will manage it. This year we will have more than 800000 new refugees and immigrants in Germany. And that is good!
I am german. And most of german people want to help refugees. Even poor Immigrants have the right to ask for asyl. Although they won't get it. I am proud of Germany.we will take the challenge. Because we have to take responsibility as a rich country. There are even germans who share there home with refugees.
It will not be easy, but i am sure that WE (Germany) will manage it. This year we will have more than 800000 new refugees and immigrants in Germany. And that is good!
16
Perhaps the people coming to Germany don't want to change the country. Here in the USA when they get settled in they want us to change everything about our country to the one they were forced out of. No logic there but it's how they are. Our legal immigrants are far more apt to adapt to our country and our ways. As far as letting an illegal into your home be very careful. The ones that come here illegally rape and kill our women and young girls. By the way 800,000 people come over our borders in a few months.
3
good luck...they will not assimiliate, they will cling to sharia and have more kids than you germans are having...and, in a few years there will be no germany
6
Which is the preferred world - a league of nations with a wonderful diversity of races, cultures, traditions and economies or a borderless global melting pot eventually resulting in a mono-cultured one size fits all mono-world?
5
There are way too many people in this world. To say that the world is over populated by 50% is not an exaggeration. An equal problem is that it is mostly the uneducated, poor, and hopeless that are growing their populations. I am thankful that the U.S. is not connected by a land bridge to Europe.
4
The USA is directly responsible for the displacement in the Middle East. And yet one finds no acknowledgment thereof in the English language press. Personally the self congratulation coming from this nation, who has as a leading election candidate an individual calling all Mexican migrants rapists, and advocates the building of a massive wall to keep them out, disingenuous and repugnant.
5
The craziest aspect of the refugee crisis is Italian boats rescuing African economic migrants right off the shore of Libya. The smugglers don't even bring the migrants off the shore of Italy or Malta anymore, they just bring them out far enough to drown, and then use the Italians as their taxi service. Why is Italy doing this? Is it the European human rights courts allowing them to be sued for failing to abet migrant trafficking? Or is it the pope, opposing birth control in Africa and then demanding that Europe accommodate the massively flow from Africa's billion-person impoverished population?
Europe needs a new court of human rights, and the Catholic Church needs a new pope.
Europe needs a new court of human rights, and the Catholic Church needs a new pope.
7
Interestingly the leaders of the countries that Are disintegrating are apparently blameless for the tens thousands of people who are fleeing their countries. It's all Europe's fault, of course.
Call it bad news overload but it would seem to me that the "leaders" of these countries would stop their squabbling over who gets to oppress their people more and wondered if they will soon have any people left or is this actually a cynical strategy to effect regime change in Europe.
Why aren't well resourced Arab countries stepping up to the plate and helping their brethren? They won't. But then no criticism for them.
Call it bad news overload but it would seem to me that the "leaders" of these countries would stop their squabbling over who gets to oppress their people more and wondered if they will soon have any people left or is this actually a cynical strategy to effect regime change in Europe.
Why aren't well resourced Arab countries stepping up to the plate and helping their brethren? They won't. But then no criticism for them.
7
"That has also complicated arguments in Europe, because fear of migrants has been coupled with likely exaggerated fears that radical Islamic jihadists will mix with the migrant flow and bring terrorism into a borderless Europe". Exaggerated? Two local Asian men indignantly contradicted me when I referred to 7/7 and 9/11 as ‘terrorists’ – stating that they were ‘freedom fighters’. Another one of them said, 'Take no notice, she's only a woman'.
Asian men remarking “When we take over this country things will be different!”. On Sunday morning I went around the corner for milk and passers-by were all speaking in different languages. I was glad to go into a local (Turkish) café where they speak English!
Asian men remarking “When we take over this country things will be different!”. On Sunday morning I went around the corner for milk and passers-by were all speaking in different languages. I was glad to go into a local (Turkish) café where they speak English!
6
This is insanity. There are quite a few safe countries between Syria and Sweden. I don't understand these EU bureaucrats & leftwing media types. Do they think the refugees will stop with this lot? If you don't put a firm foot in place half of Africa & the Middle East will be in your doorstep within a decade.
Better get a backbone and quick, your civilizations are at stake. Chinese leaders & Putin must be laughing intensely at this madness.
Better get a backbone and quick, your civilizations are at stake. Chinese leaders & Putin must be laughing intensely at this madness.
8
Ironically, a meaningful portion of the migrant issue was U.S. caused. The U.S. should raise its hand and say, we screwed up world order, we know it, we will take half of the migrants.
All criticism of Europe is unjustified here:
Europe got loaded with more than she deserves and can handle.
It's true: Some countries seem reluctant to take in foreigners, especially moslems - and xenophobia is rampant in some populations (also some who read this in their own language).
Others, like Germany, excel in their humanity (even if they, too, suffer from a few right wing radical elements).
BUT THE GREATEST SHAME SHOULD FALL ON USA!
These refugees come from countries which were destroyed by irresponsible and illegal US military adventures.
Take Afghanistan (which had nothing to do with 9/11 - those terrorists were all Saudis!),
Iraq (which had even less to do with that),
Libya (which did not even touch the PANAM plane of Lockerbie),
Syria (where more reforms were going on than in all the autocratic Arab "monarchies" of US grace).
and add the sideline (covert or other) actions in Somalia, Yemen, Bahrein, Sudan, Pakistan (drone wars are wars, too).
And ask yourselves:
DON"T THE USA OWE THOSE REFUGEES MORE THAN EUROPE DOES?
US GOVERNMENTS (or rogue regimes?) CREATED THAT MISERY
- AND LEAVE IT NOW TO OTHERS TO CLEAN IT UP.
If I ever hear a word from Washington again about criticizing others and their "Standard of Human Rights" I'll be sick.
No. Actually, I have three suggestions for the USA:
1. Open your ports for refugee ships from Greece and Italy!
2. Open your purses wide for helping!
3. Impeach Obama (for Libya) and prosecute Hilary (for Syria and ISIL!
Europe got loaded with more than she deserves and can handle.
It's true: Some countries seem reluctant to take in foreigners, especially moslems - and xenophobia is rampant in some populations (also some who read this in their own language).
Others, like Germany, excel in their humanity (even if they, too, suffer from a few right wing radical elements).
BUT THE GREATEST SHAME SHOULD FALL ON USA!
These refugees come from countries which were destroyed by irresponsible and illegal US military adventures.
Take Afghanistan (which had nothing to do with 9/11 - those terrorists were all Saudis!),
Iraq (which had even less to do with that),
Libya (which did not even touch the PANAM plane of Lockerbie),
Syria (where more reforms were going on than in all the autocratic Arab "monarchies" of US grace).
and add the sideline (covert or other) actions in Somalia, Yemen, Bahrein, Sudan, Pakistan (drone wars are wars, too).
And ask yourselves:
DON"T THE USA OWE THOSE REFUGEES MORE THAN EUROPE DOES?
US GOVERNMENTS (or rogue regimes?) CREATED THAT MISERY
- AND LEAVE IT NOW TO OTHERS TO CLEAN IT UP.
If I ever hear a word from Washington again about criticizing others and their "Standard of Human Rights" I'll be sick.
No. Actually, I have three suggestions for the USA:
1. Open your ports for refugee ships from Greece and Italy!
2. Open your purses wide for helping!
3. Impeach Obama (for Libya) and prosecute Hilary (for Syria and ISIL!
2
The burden for coping with this gigantic problem is falling on European countries, some of whom are more amenable to helping the migrants/refugees than others.
I find it strange that America can look dispassionately across the Atlantic at a problem that 'they' have.
But this whole problem has been caused by the American government's policy of bombing so many middle-eastern and north African countries, so many at the behest of Netanyahu in Israel, but it seems that any Moslem country is fair game.
As a result of this murderous bombing campaign the rule of law has totally broken down and civic society, as had been established, has been blasted out of existence.
So, as the US are totally responsible for the murder, mayhem and destruction of the Middle East, what are they going to do to tidy up the mess they left?
I find it strange that America can look dispassionately across the Atlantic at a problem that 'they' have.
But this whole problem has been caused by the American government's policy of bombing so many middle-eastern and north African countries, so many at the behest of Netanyahu in Israel, but it seems that any Moslem country is fair game.
As a result of this murderous bombing campaign the rule of law has totally broken down and civic society, as had been established, has been blasted out of existence.
So, as the US are totally responsible for the murder, mayhem and destruction of the Middle East, what are they going to do to tidy up the mess they left?
2
This is absolutely not an European problem but rather a Middle Eastern problem. The fundamental question news organizations should be focusing on is why Middle Eastern countries refuse to take in and take care of their own instead of closing their eyes and ears and pawning them off on an already tax heavy European social system. The bottom line is that working families here in Europe cannot afford to feed them and our families. As Greece learned, every bill must eventually be paid. Unlike the U.S., European roads are not paved with gold. (I'm obviously being facetious...)
5
These deaths should be directly on the consciences of those European politicians and Brussels Eurocrats that have abdicated their responsabilities as administrators of the public good. No country or group of countries can seriously declare - or to let others believe - that all those who can somehow get there will be welcome. To do so is to encourage and reward human trafficking; to penalize true political or religious refugees deserving of consideration; and create the conditions for a continuing acceleration of economic migration beyond what can possibly be handled without serious consequences for the social fabric of the host countries. The half-measures, contradictory actions and sheer hypocrisy of these "decision makers," many of whom unelected,is simply shameful.
14
Most Asian & African nations are unlivable due to certain errors in the languages. However, people survive. Yet, the moment they are get financially enabled and in possession of modern technical gadgetry, their look out would be escape to some English nation. Continental Europe is just a temporary haven. But then much better than most Asian/African nations.
The ending of the English Empire is the root cause of this great population movement. With the end of English rule, most of the post English Colonial nations went back to traditional social tragedies. Even though all local natives will swear to be patriotic and anti English colonialism, in depth of their dreams, they would love to escape to the land of the English colonialists.
Europe in its current day academic understanding of the situation has no answer for it. Neither does GB, Australia, Canada and USA. In fact, Hitler, despite having so much understanding, did not come up with this idea. That all he had to do to conquer Britain was to ask the Germans to move over to Britain in without any arms. How could Britain then stop this conquering. It can't shoot down unarmed conquerors.
The ending of the English Empire is the root cause of this great population movement. With the end of English rule, most of the post English Colonial nations went back to traditional social tragedies. Even though all local natives will swear to be patriotic and anti English colonialism, in depth of their dreams, they would love to escape to the land of the English colonialists.
Europe in its current day academic understanding of the situation has no answer for it. Neither does GB, Australia, Canada and USA. In fact, Hitler, despite having so much understanding, did not come up with this idea. That all he had to do to conquer Britain was to ask the Germans to move over to Britain in without any arms. How could Britain then stop this conquering. It can't shoot down unarmed conquerors.
They're hoping the refugees will just die. Take a look at that horrendous garbage strewn 'camp' in Calais.
It isn't Europe's responsibility to take care of other people.
6
Illegal immigrants entering in Europe should be fed housed until they can be returned safely to their countries of origin europe welcome migrants in the world
3
Help ever, hurt never. A small monthly contribution to UNICEF or the International Rescue Committee or any of the reputable charities dealing with refugees and refugee camps would be of real help. Many mainstream denominations also have organizations for aiding.
6
If Ms. Merkel cannot or will not take a leadership role in this crisis she is not fit for power. If the region's largest economy cannot extend a hand to its poor neighbors and believe in "every man for himself," they should repay their Marshall Plan funds, to the tune of hundreds of billions in 2015 dollars.
In the medium and long term the only way out of this ongoing crises is for Europe and the rest of the developed world to work unceasingly for peace and economic development in the countries where the refugees and asylum seekers originate. Either the wealth will be spread around or the poor will be.
11
In a democracy the only criticism that should matter when it comes to immigration is that of the electorate. Europe is already too beholden to technocratic opinion on many things. Refusing to acknowledge the opinions and interests of voters in preference to journalists and the UN is not going to end well for anyone. I represent asylum seekers and there is a clear difference from traditional asylum seekers and the wave of migration occurring now. And the failure to expect non-European countries to participate in relief efforts just proves the point. Asylum seekers are entitled to safety from persecution not economic rights. The Times needs to get a grip.
28
Two observations:
-Where is the response of Muslim communities in regards to this crisis? If they are the peace loving, hospitable people they claim to be, we should see a tide of responses from this large population all over the world, offering to welcome and share with their brothers and sisters.
-if the majority of refugees are men and they are getting along in their quest towards a better life, they should be willing to organize, return to their home countries and fight back, instead of requesting Europeans to put their lives on the line to clean up the mess.
-Where is the response of Muslim communities in regards to this crisis? If they are the peace loving, hospitable people they claim to be, we should see a tide of responses from this large population all over the world, offering to welcome and share with their brothers and sisters.
-if the majority of refugees are men and they are getting along in their quest towards a better life, they should be willing to organize, return to their home countries and fight back, instead of requesting Europeans to put their lives on the line to clean up the mess.
7
Is there some defined obligation that states if any and how many migraines European countries are required to take him? Is there some defined obligation of what services they are required to provide?
2
The UN is a major contributor to this crisis, it has done little to end the conflicts that drives this mass movement.
Many EU nations lack the geography and solvency to sustain the burden of illegal immigrantion.
Many EU nations lack the geography and solvency to sustain the burden of illegal immigrantion.
4
Contrary to this article, from what I have read European countries are generally much more lenient toward illegals and refugees. But every country has its limits. I find many at the NYT have a hard time grasping this reality. I am also surprised to read in this article that "critics" are surprised that there is no one unified Europen response. Did these people forget that Europe is not a country? Each sovereign state will have its own policy. Are these same critics also surprised that the Middle East does not have one uniform policy on generating refugees?
6
The vast majority of these migrants are young men (although, in all these articles, I've noticed that the NY Times always publishes photos of the relatively FEW women and children). If these are "refugees" why are they mostly men?
12
Good grief, Europe cannot absorb the Middle East. There are many wealthy countries in the ME, it's time they take on some responsibility for what is going on in their region. They won't even take a political stand against ISIS, let alone help those who suffer in their midst. Some shame needs to go there way.
9
Buongiorno,
the situation in Italy it's that we have some politicians, like Salvini or Grillo, that foment fear of people.
The reality is that in the years and the last centuries also we Italians emigrated, for the same reason: a better future!
3 days ago, Premier Renzi, during the Meeting of CL, said that: I prefer to take less of the votes in the next election but save lives as possible!
Italy it's alone! France, Spain, Germany, Austria.... closed the borders, army and police control the borders ( look the situation in Ventimiglia ).
We are alone to save the people that escape from war, Isis... UE closes his eyes! But when death comes to their house, in Germany, they are only able to say: solidarity!!!
where is't man's heart?
the situation in Italy it's that we have some politicians, like Salvini or Grillo, that foment fear of people.
The reality is that in the years and the last centuries also we Italians emigrated, for the same reason: a better future!
3 days ago, Premier Renzi, during the Meeting of CL, said that: I prefer to take less of the votes in the next election but save lives as possible!
Italy it's alone! France, Spain, Germany, Austria.... closed the borders, army and police control the borders ( look the situation in Ventimiglia ).
We are alone to save the people that escape from war, Isis... UE closes his eyes! But when death comes to their house, in Germany, they are only able to say: solidarity!!!
where is't man's heart?
11
Some unfortunate editorializing in the last few paras: "likely exaggerated fears" of Jihadi infiltration? Who's saying this? It actually sounds quite plausible.
8
Europe cannot be expected to absorb everyone who wants to move there. It is not feasible nor is it fair. They really do have to turn these people away. Europe did not create the problems in the countries where these people are emigrating from. Those countries have to deal with their own problems and take care of their own people. Just because Europe is relatively prosperous doesn't mean that waves of migrants from the rest of the world can expect to immigrate there. It sounds harsh, but the only answer is to close the borders. The countries they are emigrating from have to deal with their own population, and the migrants need to try to improve conditions in their own countries. It is in effect an invasion.
7
Everyone should stop and read: "The Coming Anarchy -- How scarcity, crime, overpopulation, tribalism, and disease are rapidly destroying the social fabric of our planet", by Robert D. Kaplan, in the February 1994 edition of The Atlantic Magazine, found online simply by googling the title; and "The Population Bomb".
Kaplan got much wrong in his essay. The future did not follow his idiosyncratic scenario. But he saw the only really important point clearly: this can't continue, because our civilization is visibly failing.
He and the often-maligned authors of "The Population Bomb", Paul and Anne Ehrlich, foresaw this human tsunami -- again, not perfectly. Precisely what would trigger it or how it would unfold they couldn't know. But the main idea itself is spot-on.
The Ehrlichs' destruction-of-civilization scenario favored historic mechanisms of sudden human population die-offs. In literature, they are the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse"; their perspective informed by European history, especially the Second World War. But they published just before the monoclonal Green Revolution transformed agriculture; the personal computer reshaped world economies; its adoption by billions of people altered societies; and the internet reshaped commerce. Mind-boggling transformations that happened in the blink of an eye. Unparalleled. No prior revolutions, political or technological, were more powerful, profound or far-reaching.
But they couldn't disarm The Bomb, why we see what we see.
Kaplan got much wrong in his essay. The future did not follow his idiosyncratic scenario. But he saw the only really important point clearly: this can't continue, because our civilization is visibly failing.
He and the often-maligned authors of "The Population Bomb", Paul and Anne Ehrlich, foresaw this human tsunami -- again, not perfectly. Precisely what would trigger it or how it would unfold they couldn't know. But the main idea itself is spot-on.
The Ehrlichs' destruction-of-civilization scenario favored historic mechanisms of sudden human population die-offs. In literature, they are the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse"; their perspective informed by European history, especially the Second World War. But they published just before the monoclonal Green Revolution transformed agriculture; the personal computer reshaped world economies; its adoption by billions of people altered societies; and the internet reshaped commerce. Mind-boggling transformations that happened in the blink of an eye. Unparalleled. No prior revolutions, political or technological, were more powerful, profound or far-reaching.
But they couldn't disarm The Bomb, why we see what we see.
3
Very nice to read a comment from another who was equally influenced by the Paul and Ann Ehrlich's incredibly prescient (if off on certain details) book. I read "The Population Bomb" in 1974, as a precocious junior high student, when global population was at around an arguably sustainable 4 billion souls. In the years that followed, the Ehrlichs' work was derided and dismissed, as "The Green Revolution," dramatically increased agricultural yields, facilitating the leap to our current dramatically unsustainable 8 billion. Every form of disaster they predicted (and some they didn't- climate change) are coming to pass.
2
Alexander Betts lives and works in the rarefied atmsophere of ivory tower academia, oblivious to the negative long-term consequences a prolonged presence of these migrants on European Union territory. The ONLY acceptable solution would be to create large transit camps on disused military bases in host countries where the migrants could be fed and sheltered for an indefinite period of time until conditions allow them to return to their homelands. Any other answer will definitely lead to electoral victories of the Front National and other nationalist parties in Europe in response to the potentially socially and culturally disruptive presence of Muslim majority migrants who are intrinsically hostile to contemporary European mores.
19
"That has also complicated arguments in Europe, because fear of migrants has been coupled with likely exaggerated fears that radical Islamic jihadists will mix with the migrant flow and bring terrorism into a borderless Europe."
Not exactly exaggerated. Europe is flooded with muslims and so far for the last 50 years nothing but trouble has come from the Islam influx, including jihadists.
All these 'refugees' will be without a job for many years to come, get disenfranchised, marginalized and radicalized.
Not exactly exaggerated. Europe is flooded with muslims and so far for the last 50 years nothing but trouble has come from the Islam influx, including jihadists.
All these 'refugees' will be without a job for many years to come, get disenfranchised, marginalized and radicalized.
9
Sure, it's America's fault. Not Europe for invading, subjugating, and eventually sundering nearly every Middle Eastern and African country in existence. It certainly isn't France's fault either considering Syria was a French mandate and the French pushed so hard for military intervention in Syria finally settling for a lifting of the arms embargo which put arms in the hands of "rebels". Nor is it the fault of France and the U.K. with their hawkish approach to the situation in Libya where they engaged in a bombing (and arming) campaign and eventually dragged the United States into it after Obama's initial reluctance.
1
Just say, NO!
2
Inasmuch as Europe has been unable to come up with a collective solution for much of anything lately, it is just a matter of time -- perhaps months -- before a number of nations start producing their own Donald Trumps.
And, unless pan-Europeans are willing to call a spade a spade, say this is who we are, stop apologizing, draw lines, and enforce them, things will only get worse, as Europe, having forgotten why it developed transnational institutions after World War II, continues to disintegrate.
The most useful thing Europe can do for humanity is to maintain itself as a place where the downtrodden of the world would like to go, not to pretend it can magically take care of all the downtrodden.
It would be more appropriate for the Times to write an article cataloging criticism of those places the migrants are leaving than an article pumping up criticism of Europe for not bailing out every tyrannical or failed state.
Granted, it seems easy to say at a distance but, perhaps if the migrants had no place to go, they would stay home and make their countries places worth staying in.
And, unless pan-Europeans are willing to call a spade a spade, say this is who we are, stop apologizing, draw lines, and enforce them, things will only get worse, as Europe, having forgotten why it developed transnational institutions after World War II, continues to disintegrate.
The most useful thing Europe can do for humanity is to maintain itself as a place where the downtrodden of the world would like to go, not to pretend it can magically take care of all the downtrodden.
It would be more appropriate for the Times to write an article cataloging criticism of those places the migrants are leaving than an article pumping up criticism of Europe for not bailing out every tyrannical or failed state.
Granted, it seems easy to say at a distance but, perhaps if the migrants had no place to go, they would stay home and make their countries places worth staying in.
32
Well, most comments here seems to blame the EU (and they deserve quite a bit of the blame), and the unpreparedness of european countries to handle the migrant crisis (why would they be prepared??). But what about the role of US in all this? how about Iraq, and Afganistan? and Syria, and Lybia? are the iraqis better of now than they were during Saddam? is there more peace and stability? The number of Christians in Iraq during Saddam was about 1.5 million, now they are almost extinct, and we hear about brutal murders of adults and children because they are Christians. The "Arab spring" so highly praised by the news media here (cover page of Time magazin a while ago) didn not bring much else than instability in countries surrounding Europe, which were the gatekeepers for immigrants trying to come to Europe. Once again, the US messes things up and Europeans pay the check. How about the US taking some of the migrants?
3
Wealthy Muslim countries should send ships to the Mediterranean to take the illegal immigrants to Saudi ARabia, Qatar, and Kuwait. This is nothing less than a slow-motion invasion by people who will soon be rioting for lack of food, services and jobs.
51
This article is a huge stumble by the Times as it outlines the bumbling Obama, Clinton and Democrat policy. Specifically it reveals how idiotic Obama policy in Libya was. Obama created a huge disaster at the doorstep of Europe. He has created a lawless nation that has become a stronghold for terrorists and also managed to arm them with free advanced weaponry. Africa, the Middle East, Ukraine and now all of Europe is being crushed due to faulty liberal brain matter. This is just the tip of the iceberg. A great lesson should be learned. The most obvious is that Democrat policy creates more death, destruction and suffering than could be imagined. The second lesson is that Republicans are not without blame as well. Every time Republicans have tried to be bipartisan and work with the president the result has been utter disaster. Bi partisanship is not possible with Democrats because it frees them to destroy millions of lives. Democrat xenophobia has been a disaster for the world. Granted, Republicans have plenty of blame but the redeeming fact about about them is that their foibles were made in an honest effort to help the nation. Democrats on the other hand only make decisions on how to divide, shed blood and lie in order to further not their country, but only their party. Democrats have not led in any positive manner and have only compounded the problems. So by all means, hold your nose and keep on voting Democrat.
2
Challenge for the writer of this comment: name one world problem that is not, in your view, Obama and "the Democrats" fault.
If we all wanted to live in middle east, we'd live there. No one wants to live in these countries because their culture and government is dysfunctional. Just like no one wants to live in Mexico. My family struggled and worked to thrive. We don't wear veils, we don't pay bribes, we have a country! Where are my rights in all of this. Taking in ill-educated people who live in the 7th century? Not now, not ever, let the Saudis feed them.
5
Another great favor we've done our allies in Europe: triggered the massive destabilization of an already tenuous region by blowing up Iraq and neighborhood, failing to secure any kind of stability, and then leaving the chaos to birth all manner of new lunacy and letting already-existing lunacy run rampant, overflowing past old national boundaries that now mean nothing.
I am not among those who blame the US for every global ill, but this time, it's shockingly obvious and shameful.
That said, I am afraid that as sad as the plight of these migrants is, it isn't reasonable to expect Europe to absorb them --- especially given their recent experiences with their Muslim minorities and immigrants, and the frightful phenomenon of European-born or raised Muslims going to Syria and coming back as Jihadists with real battle experience and even more radical convictions.
I am not among those who blame the US for every global ill, but this time, it's shockingly obvious and shameful.
That said, I am afraid that as sad as the plight of these migrants is, it isn't reasonable to expect Europe to absorb them --- especially given their recent experiences with their Muslim minorities and immigrants, and the frightful phenomenon of European-born or raised Muslims going to Syria and coming back as Jihadists with real battle experience and even more radical convictions.
37
Adios Europe as we know it! Will these "refugees" leave Islam? No. Will they bring their customs and traditions to Europe? Yes. Will Europe benefit from them? Nope.
10
This problem is one that essentially was created by the European governments - including the EU government - themselves. Europeans still haven't learned that neither extreme "right wing" NOR extreme "left wing" policies are healthy for society. They still do not seem to understand the concept of moderation in these regards. Or even common sense.
Here is the thing: They will be resettled and they will find that they do not get the jobs they want or any jobs and they will become dissatisfied. They will turn their attention to certain European populations whom they hate. They will not accept that women are treated as equals. There will be honor killings--many honor killings. There will be a huge rise in terrorism, random attacks on other populations in europe against whom they will express their mounting frustrations that they can't prosper in a Europe with economic problems. The native population will rebel and hard right wing governments will assume office.
8
The top "readers picks" in the NY Times blame the migrants, seeking a variety of conspiracy theories and criticisms. It's no wonder Trump has captivated this nation. The world has changed. Americans have changed. After 911, and decades of war, and decades of reduced wages, how rough Americans have become, including the self-described intellectuals. These are telling signs you can read in history books, except now....it's you.
16
We should advocate a good practical solution - one that some of our citizens believe will work including the prominent presidential candidate who has prescribed it : Build a wall on the beaches extending from Greece to Turkey and have the Syrians pay for it!
The EU is complaining about 300,000 illegal immigrants this past year, as we deal with 300,000 children born to at least 11 million illegal parents during the same period. If the situation in the EU has been declared a crisis, then what do we call America's? Compassionate people that we are, we cannot save the world. Trump might be arrogant, abrasive, politically incorrect, but he is right to distinguish between legal and illegal immigration. He is also correct to point out the cost associated with our generosity, and resentment felt by those who follow the rules of our nation. There is a cost beyond dollars when laws are not enforced uniformly. When illegals are allowed to flaunt our laws, and citizens are not. The European Union, America, wealthy nations are being tested across the globe by those escaping conflict and poverty. Immigration needs to be controlled. We cannot have open borders. The EU is facing a humanitarian crisis, turning what they call migrants away is politically insensitive, even viewed racist by some. They strive for a way to even the cost among members, to sort the refugees from those simply seeking to take advantage of generous entitlements. America needs to have that same discussion. Illegals scream yes we can, many would grant them amnesty, but we simply cannot afford it financially or based on being a nation of laws which all must obey. We cannot enforce laws selectively, and we cannot carry the weight of the world's poor on our shoulders.
6
Thousands of people are invading Europe. . .why are they not called invaders?
11
These comments are the true face of the faux "liberals" "human right" supporters of the NYT. These comments are basically saying "Let them eat cake."
Michael Oren, former Israeli ambassador to the US, states repeatedly in his book that Americans are nice. Until they are not.
This is a perfect example.
Over and over, I read judgmental comments reeking of the moral superiority by the "Exceptional" Americans of the NYT. They are appalled when non-Europeans seek to preserve their culture, eschew foreigners, are sectarian, or even defend their very lives and safety.and their support for multiculturalism. Read comments on stories on Israel, Egypt, Japan. South Korea to name a few.
But any idea of a true multicultural Europe becomes about European countries having the right to "preserve" their culture. Multiculturalism becomes a threat.
Any idea of Europe which through its colonialism, once military and now financial, should take in the people who they have always exploited must be met with moral justifications as to why there is no obligation to help.
This thread is the coeur de cri of the Limo Liberals.
Michael Oren, former Israeli ambassador to the US, states repeatedly in his book that Americans are nice. Until they are not.
This is a perfect example.
Over and over, I read judgmental comments reeking of the moral superiority by the "Exceptional" Americans of the NYT. They are appalled when non-Europeans seek to preserve their culture, eschew foreigners, are sectarian, or even defend their very lives and safety.and their support for multiculturalism. Read comments on stories on Israel, Egypt, Japan. South Korea to name a few.
But any idea of a true multicultural Europe becomes about European countries having the right to "preserve" their culture. Multiculturalism becomes a threat.
Any idea of Europe which through its colonialism, once military and now financial, should take in the people who they have always exploited must be met with moral justifications as to why there is no obligation to help.
This thread is the coeur de cri of the Limo Liberals.
Colonialism, looking through the rear view mirror, looks really good to me.
1
I might have a lively imagination, but this could be a reproduction bomb.
2
Not that many years ago, Roman Catholic Ireland was raised sheep and exported children to the rest of the E.U., much as Mexico and Latin America have exported children and adults to the United States. Entry into civilized countries is probably worth $100,000 a person, or $500,000 a family. The money is a lottery winning for the lucky/desparate border breakers.
Now the Middle East and Africa are shipping their excess bodies to Europe. The Irish spent a lot of money to educate their kids before shipping them off. The new immigrants have been mis-educated and have no appreciation of contributing to the expansion of Western Civilization. It is time to create safe zones throughout the Middle East and Africa. Donald Trump can help by building 20 foot walls. With adequate birth control, the problem will end in 60 years.
Now the Middle East and Africa are shipping their excess bodies to Europe. The Irish spent a lot of money to educate their kids before shipping them off. The new immigrants have been mis-educated and have no appreciation of contributing to the expansion of Western Civilization. It is time to create safe zones throughout the Middle East and Africa. Donald Trump can help by building 20 foot walls. With adequate birth control, the problem will end in 60 years.
1
The fundamental problems behind “dysfunction” are Western European labor practices protecting established workers resulting in high structural unemployment by U.S. standards, particularly among the young; social safety nets that are creaking under the weight of supporting those who can’t find work; and the sheer number of refugees seeking not so much “asylum” as the opportunity to merely survive.
Those problems aren’t easily going away, so I don’t see Europe’s ability to absorb many millions of destitute and desperate refugees, many of them just as young as Frenchmen and Spaniards who can’t find work, improving anytime soon. Their employment frameworks can’t offer such refugees work and their social safety nets, as robust as they are, will creak even more noisily under added pressures. And they have other priorities that are building and that place demands on available resources, such as defending themselves from encroachments from the East that the U.S. clearly is distancing itself from undertaking solely on our dime.
In the end, would it be more manageable to fund wars to eliminate the sources of instability in the Middle East and Africa, so that the displaced might return to their own countries to make new lives, assisted by aid provided by Europe and the U.S.?
Otherwise, look for the same or similar conditions imposed by Poland and Slovakia eventually taken up by France and even Germany, and a truly monumental humanitarian disaster not unfolding but taking place.
Those problems aren’t easily going away, so I don’t see Europe’s ability to absorb many millions of destitute and desperate refugees, many of them just as young as Frenchmen and Spaniards who can’t find work, improving anytime soon. Their employment frameworks can’t offer such refugees work and their social safety nets, as robust as they are, will creak even more noisily under added pressures. And they have other priorities that are building and that place demands on available resources, such as defending themselves from encroachments from the East that the U.S. clearly is distancing itself from undertaking solely on our dime.
In the end, would it be more manageable to fund wars to eliminate the sources of instability in the Middle East and Africa, so that the displaced might return to their own countries to make new lives, assisted by aid provided by Europe and the U.S.?
Otherwise, look for the same or similar conditions imposed by Poland and Slovakia eventually taken up by France and even Germany, and a truly monumental humanitarian disaster not unfolding but taking place.
4
What is it going to take for Europe to get the message?...Namely, that they are NOT responsible for the thousands of economic migrants fleeing to their shores, any more than they are NOT responsible for the thousands of asylum-seekers who somehow find the sums to pay illegal human-traffickers who lure them to their doom in the insides of a lorry, or in overcrowded unseaworthy boats.
This madness has got to stop! -- Governments must finally be held in account for the welfare and repatriation of their own citizens, instead of leaving them to such uncertain fates and certain death.
Pointing fingers and blame to Europe and the U.S. only goes but so far.
End the wars. Shut down the human-traffickers. And turn back those illegal boats before they breach, or enter international waters-- in order to save lives.
Yes. It's high time for the EU to send the message that they can no longer logistically accommodate the floods of refugees and migrants flooding toward their shores on a daily basis. But it's also time for the WORLD to get on board.
Of course no one wants to look like the "bad guy" by doing this, but remaining silent and doing nothing, ultimately makes "bad guys" of us all.
This madness has got to stop! -- Governments must finally be held in account for the welfare and repatriation of their own citizens, instead of leaving them to such uncertain fates and certain death.
Pointing fingers and blame to Europe and the U.S. only goes but so far.
End the wars. Shut down the human-traffickers. And turn back those illegal boats before they breach, or enter international waters-- in order to save lives.
Yes. It's high time for the EU to send the message that they can no longer logistically accommodate the floods of refugees and migrants flooding toward their shores on a daily basis. But it's also time for the WORLD to get on board.
Of course no one wants to look like the "bad guy" by doing this, but remaining silent and doing nothing, ultimately makes "bad guys" of us all.
5
No mention of the riot of August 20 where refugees to lynch an Afghan man?And how when German police tried to intervene, they also came under attack and six were injured by these refugees?
Not all Muslim immigrants are terrorists and not all of them are violent, but the citizens of civilized countries are not irrational to fear these refugees.
No Arab country wants single young Muslim males because they know wherever they go, violence and chaos will follow. To deny that this is to endanger every civilized nation and then who will be left to help innocent women and children?
Not all Muslim immigrants are terrorists and not all of them are violent, but the citizens of civilized countries are not irrational to fear these refugees.
No Arab country wants single young Muslim males because they know wherever they go, violence and chaos will follow. To deny that this is to endanger every civilized nation and then who will be left to help innocent women and children?
7
Yeah tell Europe to get it together and figure out how to handle all those homeless people, and when they do, tell New York.
2
Europe and the U.S. are now seeing our countries changed for the worse by illegal immigrants. They bring their poverty or their family members who will commit or try to commit terrorist actions against the Western countries they have decided to move to for their generous government hand-outs. The West loses in any case.
9
In listening to interviews with migrants that have survived the journey into Europe, many speak fluent English and have transferable skills like pharmacists, doctors, IT experts - skills that are needed in our country. Why don't we identify those that could make contributions here, setup interview panels at our European military bases to vet them, then give those that pass the evaluation visas to come here and contribute. This would have a much better return on investment than our current strategy of drones, bombs and destruction.
6
This would be too logical an approach. :)
1
The 1951 Refugee Convention mentions nothing (at least not in the excerpts frequently quoted) about people trying to get out of harm’s way or being caught in the middle of a war in their own countries, there is only a vague reference to someone being unwilling to avail himself/herself of the protection of that country and therefore cannot be sent back. It is very clear on “a fear of being persecuted,” but that is different. One example, Eritreans fleeing their country on the grounds of moral objection to serving in the army, I think I heard the word “inconvenient” once being used. What has this got to do with persecution?
This overly broad interpretation of the said convention has muddied the waters long enough.
This overly broad interpretation of the said convention has muddied the waters long enough.
6
Since the Club Of Rome predicted all of this in The Limits To Growth in the late Sixties (it is still buyable) and since NO politician in America, Europe, or anywhere else took real action about any of the critical problems they pointed out Half A Century ago, who is to blame? The refugees?
It might be pertinent to remember that our American politicians from the rapidly darkening White House and all of the fatly paid Cabinet members and Department Heads and lobbyists acting on false advice based on fantasy information created much of this problem. Our CIA/FBI and their mafia-like family of security and intelligence wings created the problems the refugees are fleeing.
Our Secretaries of State applauded the killing of Saddam, and of Kaddhafi, the death of Egypt and Yemen and Palestine. Hillary was dying to kill Assad who was saved by her Putin nemesis so we backed several more of our numerous terrorist protegés to do him in and they are now owners of much of Iraq and Syria
Our people in charge prefer to busily discuss and dispute essentially superficial social issues that are politically correct than to strain their minds with the tidal wave of basic human problems we were instrumental in creating.
Bieber and Jenner and celebrity trash are the big deals. God Save Us from having to attack the real things before we drown in them.
It might be pertinent to remember that our American politicians from the rapidly darkening White House and all of the fatly paid Cabinet members and Department Heads and lobbyists acting on false advice based on fantasy information created much of this problem. Our CIA/FBI and their mafia-like family of security and intelligence wings created the problems the refugees are fleeing.
Our Secretaries of State applauded the killing of Saddam, and of Kaddhafi, the death of Egypt and Yemen and Palestine. Hillary was dying to kill Assad who was saved by her Putin nemesis so we backed several more of our numerous terrorist protegés to do him in and they are now owners of much of Iraq and Syria
Our people in charge prefer to busily discuss and dispute essentially superficial social issues that are politically correct than to strain their minds with the tidal wave of basic human problems we were instrumental in creating.
Bieber and Jenner and celebrity trash are the big deals. God Save Us from having to attack the real things before we drown in them.
4
Don't look to Merkel for change she is a right wing economic conservative.
When will Norway, Sweden and Denmark take their fair share? I keep hearing about their wonderful economies, safety net and way of life. Could it be because they are not subject to the immigration seen elsewhere?
They have wonderful countries because they don't take them.
From 1810-1980, there was a net migration of 38 million people into the US. From 1945-93, 31 million migrated into Western Europe or between Western European countries. 200,00 left North Korea after the Korean War. Millions left Russia and Eastern Europe during the Cold War. And 1.2 million were moved out of Bosnia and Herzegovina after their war. There has been massive migration into Western Europe and the US over time. Every migration is different. Most begin with hostility from the host countries. In the end, millions of relatively poor people successfully blend in with the native population and fear of disaster, economic or otherwise, proves to be overblown.
2
Where does this drumbeat to let in the migrants come from?
Why should Europe endanger its future stability by taking in hundreds of thousands of mostly Muslim refugees; who, once settled will likely be a source of political and religious instability, and a vast drain on their host countries?
Only liberal media outlets lead this sanctimonious charge… and probably those writers and editors advocating the policy come exclusively from the class that's insulated from the economic and social effects of the huge migration by virtue of their jobs, money, schools and neighborhoods.
Why should Europe endanger its future stability by taking in hundreds of thousands of mostly Muslim refugees; who, once settled will likely be a source of political and religious instability, and a vast drain on their host countries?
Only liberal media outlets lead this sanctimonious charge… and probably those writers and editors advocating the policy come exclusively from the class that's insulated from the economic and social effects of the huge migration by virtue of their jobs, money, schools and neighborhoods.
18
Too late now. Looking at the situation empathetically, people have a right to their life. This is also the cost of meddling in another country. Now Europe is taking the blunt of it. People should try to think straight when they hear drumbeats of war from the right wingers.
The European plan for of a collaborative, free market economy and single currency probably didn't need to include an open border policy for it to succeed. Clearly the EU didn't anticipate their openness would be exploited to such an extent.
Today European politicians are very afraid of opposing immigration in case they are labelled bigots. But they need to get over this insecurity. They need to address this as a population control and economic problem.
Today European politicians are very afraid of opposing immigration in case they are labelled bigots. But they need to get over this insecurity. They need to address this as a population control and economic problem.
7
If European countries do not want hordes of refugees, they have to get the Middle East to fix its various problems or start turning the refugees back. This means money and other resources and occasionally soldiers, some of whom will be killed, or a callousness for which only a few European countries have recently shown any ability.
Introducing another army, whether western or muslim, into the Middle East would add a player but not shut down the game. The army would have to be exceptional. I would suggest an army of Muslim women from the area, officially dedicated to taking control of the area (because the men have failed to maintain peace) and keeping control until the men have demonstrated that they will not start their religious or other bickering again. Perhaps such an army would also split on sectarian and ethnic lines, but it might be able to hold itself together.
The force of women rebelling against the mess that the men have made, and determined to clean it up, is the only force that could come to the Middle East with clean hands and credibility.
Only something so far outside convention that it appears unworkable, absurd, or insane has any hope of really changing things, it seems. Patient diplomacy and negotiation have not worked well enough to avoid the present situation.
Introducing another army, whether western or muslim, into the Middle East would add a player but not shut down the game. The army would have to be exceptional. I would suggest an army of Muslim women from the area, officially dedicated to taking control of the area (because the men have failed to maintain peace) and keeping control until the men have demonstrated that they will not start their religious or other bickering again. Perhaps such an army would also split on sectarian and ethnic lines, but it might be able to hold itself together.
The force of women rebelling against the mess that the men have made, and determined to clean it up, is the only force that could come to the Middle East with clean hands and credibility.
Only something so far outside convention that it appears unworkable, absurd, or insane has any hope of really changing things, it seems. Patient diplomacy and negotiation have not worked well enough to avoid the present situation.
2
The world is facing a challenge when people want to seek the better, safer living conditions in the established countries. That is why people want to enter Germany, Sweden, and in a different context, the US.
It is hard to be heavy handed against people who are merely trying to live, and yet I understand that countries cannot bear the burden for the World's suffering.
It is hard to be heavy handed against people who are merely trying to live, and yet I understand that countries cannot bear the burden for the World's suffering.
12
Just say No
Exactly who is doing all the criticizing? It appears that many countries are trying to absorb illegal or "undocumented" migrants as best they can. When does it all end? Do we expect that the entire population of war-torn countries can freely migrate wherever they please? And who has to pay for all this? Certainly this mass migration will alter the demographics of Europe and with that European history, including its political and economic history, is bound to change, and probably not toward greater prosperity for all. When does it end? What is the responsibility of the European nations to absorb millions and millions of people seeking a better life? Is this how Islam is going to conquer the West? Does Europe have a right to say "No"?
53
Europe has no right to say no. Their only choice is how they get overrun. Americans have no right to say no to illegals, and Australia must allow South Asia to freely send boats.
For some reason, they think there will be a better world after this happens.
For some reason, they think there will be a better world after this happens.
"Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany has said that the migration crisis is a bigger test for the European Union than even the Greek financial meltdown. She said on Friday that European interior ministers meeting this weekend would be looking into “rapid changes to the asylum system,” and that European leaders could hold an emergency summit meeting “if the preliminary work is done.”"
So they are looking into something and might hold a meeting about if ...
No offense to the EU 27, but Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany was one (of many) who President Obama had to convince to support stronger sanctions on Russia about Ukraine and Crimea way back ... why, it was ONE YEAR ago and is past history.
So they are looking into something and might hold a meeting about if ...
No offense to the EU 27, but Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany was one (of many) who President Obama had to convince to support stronger sanctions on Russia about Ukraine and Crimea way back ... why, it was ONE YEAR ago and is past history.
1
Angela Merkel makes a lot of mistakes. Four example the ttip. We don't warnt to import cheap and unhealthy food from the usa. And the sanctions in russia costs Germany economy a lot of money. By the way there are still Sanction on russian. but it is not the us who takes care about all the refugees from Ukraine. It is polen and germany.
Why is it the EU's responsibility? Why isn't the EU, the UN and the international community demanding that countries like Algeria, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and others do more? Why aren't Mediterranean countries like Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria sending rescue ships? Why aren't they taking in refugees? Why isn't Arab League doing something constructive to help refugees and end the wars in the region? Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass on exporting violent Islamic ideology and financing violence around the region? Where is the OIC? Why aren't they being pressured to share the burden?
Our allies in the middle east are intolerant towards other religions, oppress minorities and now the EU is expected to deal with the problem. How many migrants has Saudi Arabia taken in? Kuwait? Qatar? Algeria?
They seem to be happy to see the region cleansed of Christians and have no concern for the social tensions that uncontrolled migration causes.
Our allies in the middle east are intolerant towards other religions, oppress minorities and now the EU is expected to deal with the problem. How many migrants has Saudi Arabia taken in? Kuwait? Qatar? Algeria?
They seem to be happy to see the region cleansed of Christians and have no concern for the social tensions that uncontrolled migration causes.
54
Saudi are at the rootbof all these problems. Have been since the early 20th century. Untrustworthy back stabbing and now filthy rich.
The European Union was a strong force before the expansion drive that started some 15 years ago. Now it is a squabbling mess. Who pushed for the expansion? Cui bono?
3
I see a lot of healthy, young men with very nice smart phones coming to Europe. What happened to all of the women? Aren't they allowed to move to Europe? I guess they leave them behind to be raped and enslaved by ISIS. Or perhaps they're afraid the women will enjoy too much freedom. If we're really concerned about these refugees from war-torn Syria shouldn't we be trying to rescue the women and children wherever they are? Perhaps the UN could ask for at least a monetary donation from the oil rich gulf nations so they can fly these fellow Muslim into Europe where they can freely practice their faith and culture and be on the European dole.
36
It is economic migration. The young males come, in order to work and get welfare benefits, and they then send a lot of this home to the family back in their native homeland.
They don't bring the women, because they don't want them "corrupted" by western culture.
They don't bring the women, because they don't want them "corrupted" by western culture.
The young men come first, establish themselves then bring their extended families across to add to the burden.
I have no solution to offer and I applaud the people of governments of Europe for coping in a largely humane way. I do want to rebut a few points.
Overpopulation - Making that observation is useless. I doubt the refugees are busy giving birth while they're fleeing. Even if everyone on earth stops having children for a year or five years, the refugees have already been displaced and are fleeing.
"Not our problem" - Syria, Afghanistan, and Eritrea are the origin of many if not most refugees. Of these, Syria and Afghanistan account for about 50 out of 58 million people. Reasonable people would agree that Syria was affected by the Iraq war and Afghanistan is affected by the consequence of that war. Both were initiated by the USA.
"These are economic migrants, not refugees" - Where do you draw the line? Does a mother care if her child is dying from bombs as opposed to dying from rape or hunger?
Overpopulation - Making that observation is useless. I doubt the refugees are busy giving birth while they're fleeing. Even if everyone on earth stops having children for a year or five years, the refugees have already been displaced and are fleeing.
"Not our problem" - Syria, Afghanistan, and Eritrea are the origin of many if not most refugees. Of these, Syria and Afghanistan account for about 50 out of 58 million people. Reasonable people would agree that Syria was affected by the Iraq war and Afghanistan is affected by the consequence of that war. Both were initiated by the USA.
"These are economic migrants, not refugees" - Where do you draw the line? Does a mother care if her child is dying from bombs as opposed to dying from rape or hunger?
5
Mebbe. But the fact remains that these people are passing up opportunities to apply for asylum in Turkey, Greece, Macedonia, and Serbia because they want to get their nose inside the EU tent, and go to Germany or the UK. There's no desperation once you get to Turkey, free and democratic.
Making the observation of Overpopulation most certainly is relevant. In Britain alone, 26% of all births in this country as a whole are to foreign born parents. This rises to 75% in London. Indigenous people in London are now officially a minority.
The huge human cost of inflicting war was ignored by the West in lives lost, homes wrecked, almost a civilisation lost in Syria Iraq and Libya.
After what the US did in Vietnam, despite huge loss of life (2 million dead Vietnamese) but without a huge non-white non-christian human migration into white christian European lands, and after similar not unpleasant experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq, the West thought creating war in foreign land is a game that has little in unpleasant consequences for them. Unfortunately they belatedly realise it costs everyone. And uncivilised groups take over like ISIS.
After what the US did in Vietnam, despite huge loss of life (2 million dead Vietnamese) but without a huge non-white non-christian human migration into white christian European lands, and after similar not unpleasant experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq, the West thought creating war in foreign land is a game that has little in unpleasant consequences for them. Unfortunately they belatedly realise it costs everyone. And uncivilised groups take over like ISIS.
8
Please. You forgot to include the Arab Spring and all the great results that brought. At least Egypt had sense enough to partially undo that season's damage. Otherwise it's brought flames to the Middle-East from end to end.
I can only speak for what I know with Switzerland since I was born there and all my family still lives there. The problem with Switzerland for example is that it provides way too much for immigrants/refugees. You can't expect them to find decent jobs even if for example some of them were lawyers or doctors back home simply because they do not speak the language or do not assimilate. The Red Cross for example along with the government provides them with plenty of financial support which it would never provide to its own citizens and this then creates tensions between citizens and migrants. I am also partial to some of the reasons why the Middle East with countries so weatlhy like the UAE or Saudi Arabia are not made to pay or intervene, I would only love to imagine a reverse migration where Europeans were flooding Saoudi Arabia or the malls of Dubai. I also think that we have the Bush administration to thank for a disastrous Iraq war with no strategy whatsoever and a Middle East that is completely imploding with the birth of ISIS who simply took over for Al Qaida.
38
You are so right! Maybe the USA should think about taking some of the refugees from the Middle East; after all, it was the Bush administration that caused the instability in that region in the first place.
Really? You are worried about Europe's immigrant crisis. What about America's?
17
UGH !! Our "crisis" has already solved itself, unless one wants to believe Trump about
the "Mexican rapists", etc. We NYers have lots of experience with Latinos - Mexicans
among them - many "illegal immigrants". Anyone notice how hard they work? Anyone
notice how many of their kids succeed in school? Anyone notice how kind many of
them are, and how gracious? I'm a "senior"citizen and they often give me their
seats on the subway saying " Sit down, mommy." The population I would like to fix are
endlessly greedy landlords and Wall Street CEOs. Lots of Republicans who are really
enemies of the government and will actually shut it down if they don't get something
they want. They're who I want to deport - or get large amounts of back taxes from.
the "Mexican rapists", etc. We NYers have lots of experience with Latinos - Mexicans
among them - many "illegal immigrants". Anyone notice how hard they work? Anyone
notice how many of their kids succeed in school? Anyone notice how kind many of
them are, and how gracious? I'm a "senior"citizen and they often give me their
seats on the subway saying " Sit down, mommy." The population I would like to fix are
endlessly greedy landlords and Wall Street CEOs. Lots of Republicans who are really
enemies of the government and will actually shut it down if they don't get something
they want. They're who I want to deport - or get large amounts of back taxes from.
17
"UGH !! Our "crisis" has already solved itself,"
Yeah I saw some of that solution today at the southern border with Mexico. BTW, there's no need to put the expression illegal immigrants within quotes.
Yeah I saw some of that solution today at the southern border with Mexico. BTW, there's no need to put the expression illegal immigrants within quotes.
1
Those are Mexicans. They do not carry the prejudices of the people flooding Europe. They already share our values and there is plenty of work for them because they work unbelievably hard. There are no Mexican honor killings.
1
These refugees are fleeing their war torn countries. Iraq, Syria, Somalia, and Libya to name a few are uninhabitable. The destabilization of the Middle East has created this situation. Western countries with the US in the lead have pretty much caused the situations that force civilians out of their homes.
The media doesn't seem to want to address the root cause of this mass migration. All these wars in the middle east have make NOTHING better. They have served to make life unlivable in many areas. So sad.
The media doesn't seem to want to address the root cause of this mass migration. All these wars in the middle east have make NOTHING better. They have served to make life unlivable in many areas. So sad.
13
The disconnect between the reality on the ground and political alertness is absolutely ridiculous.I never saw myself as a right-winger but at some point you just have to accept you're living in reality.
In my country alone we are projected to absorb more than 800.000 refugees just in 2015. That's more than 1% of the population in one year. They will get free health care, free education, free housing and extended welfare. This is 2015 and people from low GDP, low education and low development background just won't be able to compete in a developed market place effectively. The fact that most are muslims and don't even share our values and priorities doesn't help. This mess will blow us back to recession and become an economic drag for decades to come.
Imagine if the US had to deal with 3.5 million refugees annually without a guarantee it won't get even worse. The wall would be up in no time, yet for some reason our politicians cannot be bothered.
BTW we didn't bomb Libya or had anything to do with Iraq. It's worth noting that by and large the countries who contributed the most to this mess seem to be the least willing to deal with it.
In my country alone we are projected to absorb more than 800.000 refugees just in 2015. That's more than 1% of the population in one year. They will get free health care, free education, free housing and extended welfare. This is 2015 and people from low GDP, low education and low development background just won't be able to compete in a developed market place effectively. The fact that most are muslims and don't even share our values and priorities doesn't help. This mess will blow us back to recession and become an economic drag for decades to come.
Imagine if the US had to deal with 3.5 million refugees annually without a guarantee it won't get even worse. The wall would be up in no time, yet for some reason our politicians cannot be bothered.
BTW we didn't bomb Libya or had anything to do with Iraq. It's worth noting that by and large the countries who contributed the most to this mess seem to be the least willing to deal with it.
85
Trying to understand the logic and reasoning of Middle Eastern and African people through the eyes of the western world is an exercise in futility. But indeed Europe is now stuck with solving this issue; no ifs or buts and that is the good news. The bad news though is that Europe has no idea of what to do next - their incompetence rises its ugly head. My vacations for the next couple of years thus will be in Hawaii.
10
As a NYT article yesterday "Migrant or Refugee? There Is a Difference, With Legal Implications" made quite clear, this crisis is about refugees & not migrants.
What's wrong with the NYT that its editors can't get this right?
The difference is very important as it has legal repercussions. Or do you think these Syrians etc are on a shopping trip?
What's wrong with the NYT that its editors can't get this right?
The difference is very important as it has legal repercussions. Or do you think these Syrians etc are on a shopping trip?
3
Actually the Syrians who caught a raft out of Greece ARE on a shopping trip - a shopping trip for a nicer place that will put them up in a house instead of a tent and give them money and benefits.
Turkey (and Jordan and Lebanon) has set up huge refugee camps for the Syrians. The camps, however, are not like living in Berlin.
Turkey (and Jordan and Lebanon) has set up huge refugee camps for the Syrians. The camps, however, are not like living in Berlin.
27
Most of these people are migrants and they are on a shopping trip. If they were refugees they are supposed to stop in the first country they cross to register their refugee status. Instead they are shopping for the country in the European Union which will give them the biggest handout. In this case, most are headed for Britain. One would think that Muslim migrants would be most comfortable in Turkey which is predominantly Muslim. Instead they are headed for Christian countries with better handouts and then demand that society change for them. These are migrants and pretty well dressed too.
51
Yes. Emma Lazarus's huddled masses, yearning to breathe free, generally did not have money to buy a smartphone and a SIM card in every country they came to.
3
Europe, long the ward of the United States and beneficiary of American defense and economic treaties, cannot and will not acknowledge the crisis of refugees throughout Europe and the Mid-East. Europeans were paralyzed when Serbia and Bosnia committed atrocities of human destruction right in their own backyard. Europe turned it's back on the Kurds and Syrian refugees of ISIS. Europe ignored the Russian assault on Ukraine and Crimea. Europe can't agree on how to make toast. The Greek crisis is another great example of Europe's inability to act together for the European Union's benefit.
Europe is paralyzed. It is fearful. It is rich. And it doesn't care about anything outside the many national borders of its own, weak cabal.
Europe, that great overseas entity that walked blindly into the carnage of World War I and the slaughter houses of WWII, turns a blind eye when the latest refugees of slaughter and human disintegration are dumped on her doorstep.
Europe is a continent of refugees but can't admit it. It is also a continent of nations that want desperately to retain their identity and keep the polluting refugees out.
There is no freedom in Europe. Twenty five hundred have died. The number is bound to increase. And Europe will remain frozen in place.
Europe is paralyzed. It is fearful. It is rich. And it doesn't care about anything outside the many national borders of its own, weak cabal.
Europe, that great overseas entity that walked blindly into the carnage of World War I and the slaughter houses of WWII, turns a blind eye when the latest refugees of slaughter and human disintegration are dumped on her doorstep.
Europe is a continent of refugees but can't admit it. It is also a continent of nations that want desperately to retain their identity and keep the polluting refugees out.
There is no freedom in Europe. Twenty five hundred have died. The number is bound to increase. And Europe will remain frozen in place.
7
Just to remind you of some facts that have not been mentioned yet: Germany opposed the invasion of Iraq, along with almost every other European country except for the UK, and it got roundly criticized for not joining the alliance to oust Qaddafi. But now it's expected to take the lion's share of the refugees these actions produced--it's almost obscene that Britain will take 4% as opposed to Germany's 40%.
40
I shall tell you what is obscene about the situation that you describe; Merkel is one of the prime movers of encouraging the immigration. Germany has the lowest birthrate of the indigenous population in Europe, far too low to maintain, let alone increase, the population.
Instead, Merkel is more concerned with quantity rather than quality. Germany can afford it all of the time that it remains within the Euro as the Euro gives it a massive economic advantage. That is why the Germans are so desperate to maintain the currency.
That is not misplaced jingoism, that is fact.
Instead, Merkel is more concerned with quantity rather than quality. Germany can afford it all of the time that it remains within the Euro as the Euro gives it a massive economic advantage. That is why the Germans are so desperate to maintain the currency.
That is not misplaced jingoism, that is fact.
Why is it Europe's problems? And to be honest, why should Europe accept people whose cultural values are so different that is is an invitation to disaster if these illegal migrants were able to stay. Just look at the US and the problems from illegal aliens.
44
This refugee crisis is being engineered by the Sunni Gulf Arab countries. First, this will force the West to take out the Alawite armies, you know to stem the crisis. Then the Sunni genocide of the Yezidi, Alawite, and Assyrian will also 'really' be the West's fault, because we're martial as the leftist academics will tell us. (Every week some Arabic Channel discusses who deserves genocidal violence. Alawite today, Jew Hindu and Shia another day.) Further, refugees will create a permanent muslim vote and veto on future European policies. If it were just poverty why almost no Indian or Chinese. Why are Sunni Arabs coming to the West in greater number than non-muslims, Assyrians Alawites Druze? Eriterea Pakistan Afghanistan are no worse off than a dozen other countries.
14
Thank you. But the greed monsters of Wall Street and London's City keep doing the bidding of the Oil Shieks.
Maybe they have already created a permanent muslim vote and that is why EU is unable to come up with a decisive solution for the migrant crisis. It totally seems like the EU has no leadership.
The biggest problem the world faces is humans overpopulating the planet. Opening borders will speed population growth. Now what?
36
Turkey, Jordan, and Lebanon already accepted and taking care of 4 million people from Syria, and the whole European continent (28 countries) whining about 300 thousand people. France lead the destruction of Libya. Both UK and US were leaders in attacking Iraq. Many western governments also provided support for toppling Assad in Syria. So, actions do have consequences.
9
Why is it Europe's fault? They are trying to prevent these people from coming but they still do. Ridiculous. These aren't refugees, this is just an immigrant jubilee.
45
The problem is they are not trying anything to prevent these people from coming, there are no borders, or if there are, migrants just walk through them, nobody stops them (or if they try, like Hungary with the fence, everybody is pointing fingers at them). The EU is totally impotent in handling this immigration crisis, and if you read Juncker's statement (president of the European Comission) on the immigration issue, it is plain ridiculous. This man does not see the reality around him, let alone being able to do anything about it, and he is the non-elected executive power of over 500 million people. At least the US president is elected by the people, Europe is ruled by burocrats.
United Europe is the perfecct paradigm of a 21st neoliberal society: it protects the money, and nothing else.
6
This is pure blowback. A series of wars, caused mostly by the US, has opened the floodgates to Europe. The misadventures in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and Libya have the stamp of the US and its northwestern European interlocutors. The near destruction of these countries has resulted in millions dispossesed with nowhere to go but to the nearest western countries. We have Turkey, who encouraged the destruction of Syria by supporting ISIS and the anti-Assad folks, dumping hundreds of thousands into Greece, a country which is incapable of handling its own mess. I suppose the US is fortunate to have an ocean separating it from the Middle East but karma has a way of making hay.
By the way, the use of the word migrant to describe these tormented folks is a pathetic joke.
By the way, the use of the word migrant to describe these tormented folks is a pathetic joke.
17
Well said. The US needs to accept its share of responsibility for the situation.
5
"Well said. The US needs to accept its share of responsibility for the situation."
Return the folks to their Caliphates swept in by the winds of the Arab Spring.
Return the folks to their Caliphates swept in by the winds of the Arab Spring.
Opening articles like this one to comments only serves to display the insensitivity and lack of empathy of a majority of the American population.
It's demoralizing to read all the hate expressed here. How can people not see that were it not for an accident of birth, they might have been on that truck? Why does our society condone such egoism? In a more conscientious society, people would be ashamed to express some of the views posted here.
It's demoralizing to read all the hate expressed here. How can people not see that were it not for an accident of birth, they might have been on that truck? Why does our society condone such egoism? In a more conscientious society, people would be ashamed to express some of the views posted here.
9
Yet Europe already has a terrible problem with terrorism.
1
The European Union just spent months beating up on Greece, the NATO member that forms the E.U's border with the Islamic world and a country whose youth unemployment is close to 50%, over the bail-out, which promises to give Greece decades of poverty.
Meanwhile Greece, Italy and Spain continue to pay almost all of the costs of rescuing migrants on and patrolling the EU's southern border after France, Great Britain and the U.S. overthrew Libya, creating a failed state from which thousands of migrants are entering the EU.
Meanwhile NATO member Turkey refuses to fight ISIS seriously, and is allowing jihadists to move from Europe to Syria and migrants to pour into Greece.
And although Germany is finally speaking up on refugees, yet the European Union still has NO plan for responding to anything, ISIS, migrants, Libya, anything.
The EU needs a common migrant policy based on shared responsibilities as well as an army to which each member state contributes soldiers and money. Without these, the EU is done for.
Meanwhile Greece, Italy and Spain continue to pay almost all of the costs of rescuing migrants on and patrolling the EU's southern border after France, Great Britain and the U.S. overthrew Libya, creating a failed state from which thousands of migrants are entering the EU.
Meanwhile NATO member Turkey refuses to fight ISIS seriously, and is allowing jihadists to move from Europe to Syria and migrants to pour into Greece.
And although Germany is finally speaking up on refugees, yet the European Union still has NO plan for responding to anything, ISIS, migrants, Libya, anything.
The EU needs a common migrant policy based on shared responsibilities as well as an army to which each member state contributes soldiers and money. Without these, the EU is done for.
7
Buddy, Turkey is allied with ISIS. They let recruits cross the border into Syria and they bomb the Kurds. Yeah, they are our ally like they were in WWI. That was when they perpetrated the Armenian genocide. Now they help ISIS.
15
Today more than 57 people died from lack of food and suffocation in a refrigerated truck meant for carrying frozen food when the smugglers abandoned the truck. How many more must die before the world, and in particular the US, wakes up and say enough and do something to stabilize Syria with ANY means? Where are the leaders with any conscience?
2
Eating caviar in Jackson Hole
most of the liberals on this thread are blaming the US for getting involved at all and you want ground troops?
1
I doubt that any member of the EU is being derelict in their refugee duties. Instead they are no doubt overwhelmed by the huge numbers of needy desperate people seeking a home. How any country can sufficiently organize to cope with the many physical/emotional demands and everyday needs of tens of thousands of people who will continue to pour out of their war ravaged homes and homelands is unimaginable.
7
The harshly uncharitable and incredibly ignorant nature of many of these comments sickens me. Where is compassion and charity among some of the people who have commented? These poor migrants deserve help and Germany, of all people, is leading the way.Many European countries are wealthy enough to absorb many of these unfortunates. The UK is especially heartless, or so it seems to me. The US might well take many in. Immigrants looking for a better life are, after all, the story of the USA.No wonder Trump, that vicious buffoon, is doing well among some Americans, who seem to have forgotten our history.
6
The UK is one the countries least able to help.With unemployment in some demographics having reached 20% (18-30 y/o). Wales and Scotland are basket cases with the closong of Welsh coal mines and steel plants. Scotland has nothing beyond North Sea Oil.
The Socialism Great Britain embraced is at last destroying the nation. The National Health Service runs out of money before the end of the year and sanctioning of benefits has become so vicious that it is causing deaths.
Taxes are so onerous that there has been an exodus of the wealthy. Come to Atlanta and see Mick Jagger and Elton John shopping at the local Harris Teeter.
If Great Britain were forced to accept even 20% of the hordes massing at the Chunnel it would collapse under the weight of providing benefits for them. As it is Eastern Europeans have already caused hate among the native population because it collects benefits beyond the percentage of the natives.
There's no heartlessness, just the desire to survive.
The Socialism Great Britain embraced is at last destroying the nation. The National Health Service runs out of money before the end of the year and sanctioning of benefits has become so vicious that it is causing deaths.
Taxes are so onerous that there has been an exodus of the wealthy. Come to Atlanta and see Mick Jagger and Elton John shopping at the local Harris Teeter.
If Great Britain were forced to accept even 20% of the hordes massing at the Chunnel it would collapse under the weight of providing benefits for them. As it is Eastern Europeans have already caused hate among the native population because it collects benefits beyond the percentage of the natives.
There's no heartlessness, just the desire to survive.
Europe is being asked to handle a problem that the U.S. is primarily responsible for. We were the ones who engaged in the disastrous Bush-Cheney "regime change" policy that started the chaos in Iraq that spawned ISIS and has spread into Syria displacing millions. And it was we, under President Obama, that continued the policy in the misnamed "Arab Spring" that toppled Muammar Gaddafi in Libya turning it into a failed state. Rather than sit smugly on the sidelines as this continuing human catastrophe unfolds, we need to take the lead in providing the aid necessary to save innocent lives. We have a moral obligation to the people we've displaced by inciting war in the region and are the innocent "collateral damage" of our failed, interventionist policy in the Arab world. It's time to put aside our virulent, anti-immigrant xenophobia and insensitivity and provide the aid--funds for safe transit and resettlement--we owe these people. We need to honor the nation's credo inscribed on Lady Liberty once again by sharing the burden we created with Europe by having them "'Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!'"
6
Sorry, this might be cold but I have ABSOLUTELY no sympathy for any of them, most of whom are economic migrants seeking handouts and welfare, as most of the muslims in europe collect it.
And I especially have no sympathy for the syrians, who broadly supported hamas and hezbollah as they conducted massive amounts of terrorism against Israeli jews, having housed the HQ of hamas in Damascus for decades. Polls in syria showed widespread support of terrorism against Israel for years.
Second, why aren't the boo-hoo whiners crying their tears for these people demanding that russia and iran-the 2 primary causes of the ongoing mass slaughter/civil war in syria-take in the bulk of these people? Why do so many on the far left continue to blame the US, when it is iran who has de-stabilized so much of the middle east?
A better question is if these were genuinely war refugess, why are they bypassing dozens of other countries to get to sweden and germany, if not for their welfare benefits?
These people CHOSE to not go to another arab muslim country where they shared the same religion, culture and similar language - why is it europe's or the West's responsibility to take care of them?
Sorry, the true culprits are russia for blocking any meaningful political resolution in the UN to the syrian war, and iran for arming assad and helping him massacre 300K people there. Those 2 countries are the ones who should take in these people - not Europe who had nothing to do with it.
And I especially have no sympathy for the syrians, who broadly supported hamas and hezbollah as they conducted massive amounts of terrorism against Israeli jews, having housed the HQ of hamas in Damascus for decades. Polls in syria showed widespread support of terrorism against Israel for years.
Second, why aren't the boo-hoo whiners crying their tears for these people demanding that russia and iran-the 2 primary causes of the ongoing mass slaughter/civil war in syria-take in the bulk of these people? Why do so many on the far left continue to blame the US, when it is iran who has de-stabilized so much of the middle east?
A better question is if these were genuinely war refugess, why are they bypassing dozens of other countries to get to sweden and germany, if not for their welfare benefits?
These people CHOSE to not go to another arab muslim country where they shared the same religion, culture and similar language - why is it europe's or the West's responsibility to take care of them?
Sorry, the true culprits are russia for blocking any meaningful political resolution in the UN to the syrian war, and iran for arming assad and helping him massacre 300K people there. Those 2 countries are the ones who should take in these people - not Europe who had nothing to do with it.
23
Disagree. The only "resolution" to the Syria matter the U.S. and thus the U.N. was willing to consider involved Assad leaving. That isn't realistic. Don't blame Russia for effectively protecting the Alawites.
Instead of sharing out the migrants, efforts should be in the direction of stopping the migrants.
Why isn't Turkey doing more to stop them from getting in boats for KOS. We know they leave from Turkey - why isn't Turkey stopping them. Most of them are simply leaving Turkish refugee camps which they don't like, to get benefits and education in the EU since they have been told by the UN, and UNHCR that the EU must take them as refuges. With that concept of entitlement drummed into their heads by officials these people head for Europe where they want an easier life than in Turkey.
Same thing is happening in Libya - although a little tougher on the Migrants. The EU should be making an effort to reach and agreement with both leaders of Libya, to stop the boats. Whatever happen to the EU plan to stop the boats from leaving by sinking them?
Everybody talks about the EU obligation - what about the obligation of Turkey and Libya?
One thing the EU must do is sort and deport those deemed economic migrants and return them to their homes countries.
For the Asylum seekers - build a big refugee camp for those people to wait out the Middle East Wars.
If the EU keeps waffling and doing nothing they will have their civilization and culture destroyed and see the advent of frequent terrorist attacks as we know that among the many Syrian migrants will be Jihadists.
Why isn't Turkey doing more to stop them from getting in boats for KOS. We know they leave from Turkey - why isn't Turkey stopping them. Most of them are simply leaving Turkish refugee camps which they don't like, to get benefits and education in the EU since they have been told by the UN, and UNHCR that the EU must take them as refuges. With that concept of entitlement drummed into their heads by officials these people head for Europe where they want an easier life than in Turkey.
Same thing is happening in Libya - although a little tougher on the Migrants. The EU should be making an effort to reach and agreement with both leaders of Libya, to stop the boats. Whatever happen to the EU plan to stop the boats from leaving by sinking them?
Everybody talks about the EU obligation - what about the obligation of Turkey and Libya?
One thing the EU must do is sort and deport those deemed economic migrants and return them to their homes countries.
For the Asylum seekers - build a big refugee camp for those people to wait out the Middle East Wars.
If the EU keeps waffling and doing nothing they will have their civilization and culture destroyed and see the advent of frequent terrorist attacks as we know that among the many Syrian migrants will be Jihadists.
20
Can you cite the basis for your "facts"?
In the 3rd, 4th, and 5th centuries. waves of refugees and migrants, doubtless seeking nothing but better lives and opportunities for themselves, moved into Western Europe. Some of them had official blessing; many others moved into the area in complete disregard of the official immigration, citizenship, and settlement laws. What is obvious, in retrospect, is that these migrants and refugees (almost all of whom were fleeing conditions far worse than seen in today's world) did not share the values of the civilization they entered and did not care to defend and perpetuate its best elements. The authorities were helpless, institutions could not withstand the onslaught, and the rest, as they say, is history.
6
The Roman Empire encompassed much of the regions which generated the waves of immigrants. All roads led to Rome.
1
The history of Europe has been one of conquering hordes entering and taking over the established government of Roman administration. The Germanic invasion went on for 500 years driven by the need to acquire fertile land to feed their growing tribes. My Danish ancestors conquered Gaul and settled in Normandy adapting to the Gaulish tongue and customs. Franks, Goths, Visgoths, Ostrogoths, Angles, Saxon and Magyar peoples are now in the sights of a new horde, one that will not adapt but change the culture of their hosts, not with the sword but with the weapon supplied by the Europeans. Political Correctness.
Rita, I would hardly call the people conquered by the Roman Empire who were brought into Italy "immigrants." They were brought as slaves to serve the financial interests of Roman patricians.
I am going to throw something out of the box here, but I was thinking, all these peoples got out of colonialism with independence movements and what happened, they found themselves in the hands of the most despicable dictators, unreal kings and emperors, even cannibal rulers, tribal and sectarian strife, ethnic cleansing. What if they had stuck with their Western colonizers and set a movement for equality rather than independence. Could we not see a better outcome? I know history is not made with ifs, but, just wondering...
21
It's difficult to see how "equality" co-exists with colonial powers with far more economic muscle than you have.
I understand that refugees seeking a new life. Life in which there is no place for violence, poverty, and social inequality. But I don't understand the reason they decided that Europe is ready to provide shelter for everyone. But if to look truth in the eye, the refugees themselves to blame for what their country has turned into a dung heap on a world map.
22
The main issue with the EU is they are a union that isn't unified. It is my opinion that a lot of the EU members nations are scared to death that people are going to start to say about them what they have said about us (Americans) with regard to immigration. When the fence went up along America's border, some European officials tut tutted. Now EU member nations are scrambling to build fences along their own borders. The American policies that didn't support unrestricted migration were deemed too isolationist. Now you have EU nations opting out altogether, or specifying the type of migrants they wish to receive. There is no unified plan in the EU for the influx of migrants, refugees, or asylum seekers, and as each member tries to juggle international perceptions against citizens demands there will not be one. No one wants to take responsibility for bringing order because of what it will mean. Being responsible means that you don't just get to be the good guy who welcomes everyone to cheers and applause. It also means you get to be the bad guy who shatters dreams by deciding who leaves. Being responsible means that the optics are going to be ugly sometimes, and no side is going to be completely satisfied with the outcome.
29
I am afraid Renee that you are placing your own values on your opinion. The European Commission does not fear international condemnation simply because they are not the lead in this problem. It is Corporations that are actively encouraging this massive immigration and like most Government are beholden to Commercial interest.
What fence?
Eliminating the currencies of individual European nations was a superficially attractive idea that led to economic disaster. Eliminating the borders of individual European nations was a superficially attractive idea that will lead to the destruction of Western Europe. Countries on the southern perimeter have little incentive to keep migrants out since they know they will sweep north in search of more generous welfare benefits.
And the leaders of the those target countries, liberal to a fault (and, in the case of Germany, also full of guilt for a war waged by their fathers and grandfathers), refuse to acknowledge what their despairing citizens know all too well already: immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, particularly Muslims, do not become Swedes or Frenchmen merely because they have entered their countries and partaken of their generosity. So the EU operates a ferry service from Libya to Italy and wonders why people are pouring in from countries all over Africa, whether at war or not. Perhaps they'll now begin a bus line from Thessaloniki to Vienna. The safer and easier the journey, the more who will come. The only solution is to stop intervening in the Middle East, repatriate all economic migrants at the EU's borders, and support refugee camps in Muslim countries.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR200804...
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/03/19/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-res...
And the leaders of the those target countries, liberal to a fault (and, in the case of Germany, also full of guilt for a war waged by their fathers and grandfathers), refuse to acknowledge what their despairing citizens know all too well already: immigrants from the Middle East and Africa, particularly Muslims, do not become Swedes or Frenchmen merely because they have entered their countries and partaken of their generosity. So the EU operates a ferry service from Libya to Italy and wonders why people are pouring in from countries all over Africa, whether at war or not. Perhaps they'll now begin a bus line from Thessaloniki to Vienna. The safer and easier the journey, the more who will come. The only solution is to stop intervening in the Middle East, repatriate all economic migrants at the EU's borders, and support refugee camps in Muslim countries.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/28/AR200804...
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/03/19/world/europe/ap-eu-sweden-res...
16
One could imagine a diabolical scheme to explode a country with hundreds of thousands refugies, women and children and feckless men, in a kind of unarmed invading army. Why don't they have a policy of only accepting women and children temporarily, and send the men back to fight for their country? Why is it too much to ask people to do anything for help?
13
If all the countries of the world should take in these refugees in proportion to their own population so as to equitably allocate the burden among each person on earth, then of course the biggest criticism should be pointed at the following: China, India, United States, Indonesia, Brazil, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Russia, Japan and Mexico.
If by land area so as to not overcrowd any contry, then the following: Russia, Canada, United States, China, Brazil, Australia, India, Argentina, Kazakhstan, Algeria, and Dem. Republic of Congo.
If by richest per capita so as to put the burden on the most productive countries, then the following: Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, Brunei, Kuwait, Norway, United Arab Emirates, San Marino, Switzerland, Hong Kong, United States, and Saudi Arabia.
I don't see many European countries on those lists.
If by land area so as to not overcrowd any contry, then the following: Russia, Canada, United States, China, Brazil, Australia, India, Argentina, Kazakhstan, Algeria, and Dem. Republic of Congo.
If by richest per capita so as to put the burden on the most productive countries, then the following: Qatar, Luxembourg, Singapore, Brunei, Kuwait, Norway, United Arab Emirates, San Marino, Switzerland, Hong Kong, United States, and Saudi Arabia.
I don't see many European countries on those lists.
71
A substantial minority of the migrants - and there is a difference between a migrant and a refugee - are from Pakistan and Nigeria.
And that is an example of the difference between a migrant and a refugee. People who come from nations ravaged by war, especially people from persecuted groups, like Christians or Shi'ites in Iraq or Syria, are highly likely to be refugees.
People who come from Karachi or Lagos looking for a higher salary are economic migrants.
But none of these people are interested in going to Russia, Indonesia, China or any other populous or geographically large nation other than the US, Canada, and Australia. These places are more difficult to get to from central and western Asia and Africa.
Land area is different from habitable area. Australia, Kazakhstan, and Algeria are mainly desert. Russia, Canada, Brazil, Congo, tropical rain forests or taiga.
As for the richest per capita, many of those nations, especially the Islamic nations that produce oil, have such a high per capita income because only the citizens are counted for the wealth determination. But in nations like Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, the majority of the population are imported indentured servants from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Philippines or other poor nations.
And many of the others are tiny and densely populated, and thus very expensive to live in - Luxembourg, Singapore, San Marino, Hong Kong (which is not a nation).
These are not realistic criteria.
And that is an example of the difference between a migrant and a refugee. People who come from nations ravaged by war, especially people from persecuted groups, like Christians or Shi'ites in Iraq or Syria, are highly likely to be refugees.
People who come from Karachi or Lagos looking for a higher salary are economic migrants.
But none of these people are interested in going to Russia, Indonesia, China or any other populous or geographically large nation other than the US, Canada, and Australia. These places are more difficult to get to from central and western Asia and Africa.
Land area is different from habitable area. Australia, Kazakhstan, and Algeria are mainly desert. Russia, Canada, Brazil, Congo, tropical rain forests or taiga.
As for the richest per capita, many of those nations, especially the Islamic nations that produce oil, have such a high per capita income because only the citizens are counted for the wealth determination. But in nations like Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, the majority of the population are imported indentured servants from Bangladesh, Pakistan, Philippines or other poor nations.
And many of the others are tiny and densely populated, and thus very expensive to live in - Luxembourg, Singapore, San Marino, Hong Kong (which is not a nation).
These are not realistic criteria.
8
another list of countries to allocate the burden among would be the "coalition of the willing".
Why move several hundred thousand people thousands of miles and deposit them into countries where they don't know the language, have no knowledge of the customs and culture, and have no skills that would enable them to work?
Why deposit hundreds of thousands of people into countries where there are not enough jobs for the citizens of those countries?
Why deposit several hundred thousand people into countries and strain the country's resources to or beyond the breaking point?
The questions about this migration are many, and the answers are few. But the answers could be as simple as: prevent the migration. Stop the migration at the borders. Stop the migration at the shorelines of the countries of exit. Stop the boats.
Why deposit hundreds of thousands of people into countries where there are not enough jobs for the citizens of those countries?
Why deposit several hundred thousand people into countries and strain the country's resources to or beyond the breaking point?
The questions about this migration are many, and the answers are few. But the answers could be as simple as: prevent the migration. Stop the migration at the borders. Stop the migration at the shorelines of the countries of exit. Stop the boats.
1
Germany's actions are nothing short of heroic. And the German people must be thanked again and again for having the moral courage to understand that these are desperate refugees from the wars caused by the US/Saudi/British interference in the Middle East. But let's also be clear: Germany is the world's third largest weapons exporter. Who are some of its biggest customers? Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and the UAE--countries deeply involved in the Syrian civil war.
One can understand the misgivings of many Germans who feel they should not shoulder this financial burden. But if the US/UK/Saudi governments are largely responsible for this tide of human misery, so too are German arms exports. People must oppose the policies of their governments and the arms industries that fuel these proxy wars.
And, at what point will the US take any responsibility for destroying these millions of lives? At what point will our gruesome alliance with Saudi Arabia be called out for what it is?
To those who rehearse the arguments that there are too many Muslims entering Europe--you should then be prepared to accept them in the US, because the US bears far more responsibility, particularly with the creation of Iraqi refugees. To put it another way, you're in no position to speak considering the role of your government in creating the nightmare that Iraqis today live.
One can understand the misgivings of many Germans who feel they should not shoulder this financial burden. But if the US/UK/Saudi governments are largely responsible for this tide of human misery, so too are German arms exports. People must oppose the policies of their governments and the arms industries that fuel these proxy wars.
And, at what point will the US take any responsibility for destroying these millions of lives? At what point will our gruesome alliance with Saudi Arabia be called out for what it is?
To those who rehearse the arguments that there are too many Muslims entering Europe--you should then be prepared to accept them in the US, because the US bears far more responsibility, particularly with the creation of Iraqi refugees. To put it another way, you're in no position to speak considering the role of your government in creating the nightmare that Iraqis today live.
5
Right, Muslims have no power of free agency. They are compelled to start killing one another when someone overthrows their dictator.
4
Germany has the lowest birth rate in the world. It needs these people there is nothing "heroic" about it, and with the right rising angrily, it has announced it will cut back the numbers now. Merkel, the putative leader of the EU, shares the EU's dangerous goal of borderless nations without power to enforce individual immigration policies: it works for global corporatists who are eager to create a fluid, mobile, low-paid work force so huge that benefits systems topple and the workers are too terrified to protest at their low wages. I'll refer you here to Karl Marx, since you seem to learn leftward: "You can have a successful welfare state or mass immigration. But you cannot have both."
If you think Merkel and the EU are pushing now to force member states to obey orders now on non-European as well as EU migration out of the nobility of their souls, you're mistaken. TTIP is in the pipeline: this is all about breaking down national identities, borders, and cultures.
Germany needs its aging workforce replaced. The UK does not. Denmark does not. Iceland does not.
If you think Merkel and the EU are pushing now to force member states to obey orders now on non-European as well as EU migration out of the nobility of their souls, you're mistaken. TTIP is in the pipeline: this is all about breaking down national identities, borders, and cultures.
Germany needs its aging workforce replaced. The UK does not. Denmark does not. Iceland does not.
3
Elizabeth, you have no evidence that there is some grand German design to take in these refugees to replace an aging workforce. Particularly since these refugees are unskilled and will need years to assimilate into German culture. In any case, if indeed they assimilate and provide Germany with the labor force it needs (as Turks did in the 1960s), what is so awful about that?
Your lines about "global corporatists" might work for the US, but Germany has far stricter labor laws and very strong labor unions. We would do well to adopt German labor policies in the US.
I understand the right is terrified of the idea of Europe's cultural purity being violated (since racial purity is out of fashion, "culture" is safer for the right to channel its xenophobia). And so it mobilizes these conspiracy theories about malevolent leaders intent upon destroying European identity from within. If you've been to Germany recently, you'd realize this is utter paranoia.
Your lines about "global corporatists" might work for the US, but Germany has far stricter labor laws and very strong labor unions. We would do well to adopt German labor policies in the US.
I understand the right is terrified of the idea of Europe's cultural purity being violated (since racial purity is out of fashion, "culture" is safer for the right to channel its xenophobia). And so it mobilizes these conspiracy theories about malevolent leaders intent upon destroying European identity from within. If you've been to Germany recently, you'd realize this is utter paranoia.
3
Here is an English language version of an article from the German magazine, Der Spiegel that addresses the issue of economic migration by healthy young men from the western Balkan nations to the wealthier parts of the EU.
And anyone who has been a healthy young man, or known any, knows that this demographic group are exactly the type of people who will do dangerous things due to an overactive false sense of invulnerability and desire for adventure.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/western-balkan-exodus-puts-pr...
And anyone who has been a healthy young man, or known any, knows that this demographic group are exactly the type of people who will do dangerous things due to an overactive false sense of invulnerability and desire for adventure.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/western-balkan-exodus-puts-pr...
15
........."and Kosovo has the highest birth rate in Europe". There in my friends lies the answer to ALL of this, including illegal immigration to the USA.
We are not wrecking our countries, but the planet as well. The politicians only want more bodies, yet we elect them in part at least, to also steward the planet (and the country!) Neither happens too well it seems
We are not wrecking our countries, but the planet as well. The politicians only want more bodies, yet we elect them in part at least, to also steward the planet (and the country!) Neither happens too well it seems
1
The silence from our own government and politicians is deafening.
This is not only a European disaster in the making, but a soon-to-be epic crisis that can only be solved by cooperation, compassion, and a humane, shared responsibility by the global community.
We are all in this together.
This is not only a European disaster in the making, but a soon-to-be epic crisis that can only be solved by cooperation, compassion, and a humane, shared responsibility by the global community.
We are all in this together.
2
Does that include the already beleaguered working classes in, e.g., northern England, whose wages have already been compressed by huge influxes of low-wage workers from Eastern Europe? Just what they need: a huge influx of even lower-wage workers from the Middle East. Extra housing in a country already in shock at housing prices, short of school places, resources for health care.
How very generous of you on behalf of "we".
How very generous of you on behalf of "we".
4
Europe is being invaded, predominantly by muslims. If it isn't stopped and reversed then the entire continent will be ruined.
I feel sorry for the people fleeing, but not that sorry that I wouldn't turn them around and wish them luck.
I feel sorry for the people fleeing, but not that sorry that I wouldn't turn them around and wish them luck.
58
The only way to save lives is for the EU to immediately implement the same refugee policy as Australia: make it clear that all refugees will be turned away. As Prime Minister Abbott said: "The only way you can stop the deaths is, in fact, to stop the boats". And the only way to stop the boats (and the trucks, etc) is to force them all to turn back. As long as the door stays open many, many more will keep coming. If Germany takes in 800k this year (as predicted) then there will be millions more wanting to go to Germany next year. This is exactly what Jean Raspail wrote about in 'The Camp of the Saints' and the EU countries will be destroyed if it continues.
173
A very enlightened analysis. 'Hell is paved with good intentions' as the old French expression goes. Unless European Union members are imbued with a collective death wish and existential self-hatred, taking in all of the migrants will lead to the destruction of democracy and secularism in Europe forever. Everyone knows that ISIL and other psychopathic fundamentalist groups have got the 'lost' province of Hispania in their crosshairs, desiring to continue the incomplete work of the Moorish invaders stopped by Charles Martel near Poitiers in the 8th century.
1
"And the only way to stop the boats (and the trucks, etc) is to force them all to turn back"
and condemn women and small children to death! Tough Love?. Is this a Christian solution?
and condemn women and small children to death! Tough Love?. Is this a Christian solution?
1
US, UK, Australia and Poland - heads of the "coalition of the willing". after the damage is done when it comes to taking responsibilties heading the coalition of the unwilling - but still good in giving advice to those who carry the weight.
1
As a former U.S. federal prosecutor that handled numerous immigration cases in the United States and who talked to an M.D. in Germany that has been and continues to provide medical care to refugees from Syria in his local German community, as well as talked to a French citizen this week who also happens to be a black Muslin residing in Paris, three elements of an enlighten approach are: (1) The violence and racism against refugee should never be tolerated, (2) all 1st world nations must ensure and provide a safe and healthy environment for all individuals seeking to escape violence, prosecution and hopelessness and (3) all 1st world nations must secure their borders and implement values-oriented-immigration-polities-and-procedures that protect western values that include individual civil liberties, gender equality, gay and trans gender rights, equal protection of the law, separation of church and state. These values-immigration-polities deny entry to most of those individuals merely seeking economic betterment (which should be reserved in most cases only for the poorer citizens of that nation) and deny entry to those individuals that find western values and civil liberties repugnant especially gender equality and gay rights. Bottom line: Ensure refugee and migrant health and safety, secure Western European borders and implement values-oriented-immigration framework that is guided by and protects western notions of fairness and justice.
55
Re commenter MLB's three rules: A full count of "all individuals seeking to escape violence, prosecution and hopelessness" around the world would number in the billions. If "1st world nations" are charged with making room for all of them, there will be no "safe and healthy environment" anywhere, including in currently 1st world nations. Your rule number 3 would provide some respite from the hordes--if there were some way of reading brains.
2
With respect to #3, should European citizens who don't ascribe to the same values required of immigrants be deported?
1
Sounds like a nice list of pipe dreams.
A solution cannot be produced by European alone. It has to have a global dimension to it. Europe’s geographic proximity to a troubled region is a feeble excuse for other countries to turn their backs. Nations like the United States, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand should step forward to help Europe. Emerging economies like Brazil, Russia, India and China too have a moral obligation to alleviate the pressure on Europe and help these migrants. They can help by absorbing some of the Europe-bound migrants themselves or provide special economic assistance to stable countries willing to provide them a safe haven. A global humanitarian effort, as opposed to a constrained European one, will make substantial headway in easing the crisis for the short-term.
For the long-term, the international community will have to revisit the sources of the crises, i.e. states like Syria, Libya and Iraq. If internationally-governed safe zones have to be created within these countries to stem the exodus - with or without the consent of host governments - that option should be pursued. The financial obligations would be enormous but the alternative of an unending stream of migrants reaching Europe will exact a greater toll.
For the long-term, the international community will have to revisit the sources of the crises, i.e. states like Syria, Libya and Iraq. If internationally-governed safe zones have to be created within these countries to stem the exodus - with or without the consent of host governments - that option should be pursued. The financial obligations would be enormous but the alternative of an unending stream of migrants reaching Europe will exact a greater toll.
36
Nav Canada: Really? All developed countries have a moral obligation toward less developed countries and should be doing all they can to raise the standard of living everywhere to the levels enjoyed by the developed countries. And this includes absorbing the entire populations of war-torn countries? And, of course, we let the wars go on and on. I can't imagine how you expect to stop the chaos in the world simply by absorbing all who run from it. It seems like madness, no real solution. In this country we cannot stop the flood of arms and violent killing with guns and somehow you expect to stop the mayhem and chaos adrift in the world?
3
I agree with you 100% Nav. What you suggest is the only logical way of dealing with this problem; except that the he powers that be in the EU do not WANT an end to immigration. The EU under the vision of Monnet back in the 1950's was a social experiment to bring the countries of Europe into a single state to bring mutual peace and prosperity. It was known by the politicians, then and now, that for this to happen required for all Member States to relinquish their sovereignty. It was know from the start that in order to achieve this political union, politicians were required to lie to their electorates and bring it about under the guise of an economic arrangement. The Project has failed.
Europe has indeed become an economic construct rather than a political union. The subterfuge visited on the people has backfired. Instead of being run for the economic benefit of the individual States, it has become a plutocracy. The European Commission is entirely in the thrall of the tens of thousands of Commercial Lobbyists paid for by the International Corporations.
It is entirely to the benefit of these Corporations that Europe is flooded with cheap and compliant labour. It drives down the wages of the indigenous population and is also intended to remove any National identity. The intended result is to be able to compete with the economic advantage of cheap labour in the emerging economies such as India and China.
Immigration is actively being encouraged.
Europe has indeed become an economic construct rather than a political union. The subterfuge visited on the people has backfired. Instead of being run for the economic benefit of the individual States, it has become a plutocracy. The European Commission is entirely in the thrall of the tens of thousands of Commercial Lobbyists paid for by the International Corporations.
It is entirely to the benefit of these Corporations that Europe is flooded with cheap and compliant labour. It drives down the wages of the indigenous population and is also intended to remove any National identity. The intended result is to be able to compete with the economic advantage of cheap labour in the emerging economies such as India and China.
Immigration is actively being encouraged.
Internationally governed safe zones....the people in the warning countries will never accept such things. They will scream colonialism or imperialism! If they were interested in peace they wouldn't be fighting over cities and towns that barely exist. The issues in these wars have little if anything to do with the "people" in the countries and bettering their lives rather it has to do with who gets to oppress them and which set of beliefs will be forced upon them and how much money these leaders will be able to amass. If the West wants to stop this mess, it needs to stop allowing the money to flow. These warring factions are buying their weapons with something. Follow the money and stop it.
Once again, most of the comments ignore the facts in the article and just make up their own.
Europe: 310,000 refugees/migrants in 2015
Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan: 3.5 million Syrian war refugees.
Can we at least get rid of the meme that Muslim countries are doing nothing?
Europe: 310,000 refugees/migrants in 2015
Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan: 3.5 million Syrian war refugees.
Can we at least get rid of the meme that Muslim countries are doing nothing?
7
UK - net migration this year: 330,000. One million uncaught illegal immigrants many with criminal pasts. One million children in school who cannot speak English well (hey, it's only Shakespeare's land!). Crumblinhg health care system, housing prices off the graph, ordinary British can't find primary school places, areas of London that look like foreign countries where every woman on the street is in full niqab, nearly 1,000 British jihadi youth, one in 20 girls in the borough of Southwark at risk for FGM - 8 million foreign born residents - working-class wages already compressed by huge Eastern European migration into Britain . . .
But we're really making it all up. In all the incessant news coverage about the migrants here, on the BBC, in the Guardian, with all those interviews . . .
Not one ordinary English person's views have ever been sought; not one native of the Tyneside, Cornall, former residents of East and North London, or Tower Hamlets or Bradford . . . has ever been asked for or broadcast.
This is why the right is rising in Europe. No one will listen to any side but the migrants' side. Demographics, a Europe saturated with Islam in 100 years - why would anyone pay attention to those things?
But we're really making it all up. In all the incessant news coverage about the migrants here, on the BBC, in the Guardian, with all those interviews . . .
Not one ordinary English person's views have ever been sought; not one native of the Tyneside, Cornall, former residents of East and North London, or Tower Hamlets or Bradford . . . has ever been asked for or broadcast.
This is why the right is rising in Europe. No one will listen to any side but the migrants' side. Demographics, a Europe saturated with Islam in 100 years - why would anyone pay attention to those things?
7
Exactly, Elizabeth Renant. The New York Times won't ever publish articles about the negative impact the huge influx of migrants will have on citizens of countries in Western Europe. They won't talk about what a growing population of poor Muslims will do to Western Europe in 50 to 100 years. Why? Aren't we in the West concerned about protecting our liberal advancements like gay rights and women's rights? A huge Muslim population will never accept these things. This is a problem.
6
Even accepting that this situation were only about Syrian refugees, and it is far from that, the countries you mention are immediate neighbours of Syria, and therefore have not had much choice in accepting the displaced Syrians who have spilled over into their countries. Noticeably, there is no surge further south by the refugees to the Muslim oil-rich states of the Arabian peninsula. Instead, the surge is west, through Turkey to Western Europe, culturally far less similar to Syria than their Middle Eastern neighbours. Would you care to suggest why this might be?
Since the media has failed to get to the bottom of who really ignited the violent uprising in Syria, the ICC should open an investigation into the matter and try the culprits. This conflict has destroyed the lives of millions of people and someone has to pay the price.
What a mess. Even if EU agrees on how to handle the ones who are already in Europe, the news that they have been accepted will encourage millions more to start their journey. In a NYT piece yesterday, there was mention of a Pakistani family being among the migrants without an explanation of why. If Pakistanis have joined the migrations, then Europe may find all the poor of all those regions at its doorstep.
What a mess. Even if EU agrees on how to handle the ones who are already in Europe, the news that they have been accepted will encourage millions more to start their journey. In a NYT piece yesterday, there was mention of a Pakistani family being among the migrants without an explanation of why. If Pakistanis have joined the migrations, then Europe may find all the poor of all those regions at its doorstep.
7
This is probably the greatest immigration to Europe from outside of Europe since the Mongols invaded over 1000 years ago. Of course they are stymied on what to do. There has been nothing like in for over 1000 years. Our immigration "problem" is years old. There could be over 1/2 million immigrants this year and this could go on for years.
8
It s from 2011 after france and us bombing in lybia that housands of immigrants arriving on Italian coasts...Coast Guard rescued thousands of these desperate people without any help from Europe saying that it was the responsibility of the Italian government to provide a solution and now that the situation unsustainable mrs merkel and company woke up ... and we applaud them ... it s a joke
5
What is missing from this article is any real mention that many of these migrants to "Europe" are from "Europe".
Tens of thousands of young men from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia, and Bosnia are joining the true refugees, traveling the same routes, and claiming asylum when they reach the first nation that they decide is wealthy enough to offer them the economic opportunities they seek.
This is generally Germany. While many would be happy or prefer Scandinavia, the UK, the Netherlands, Germany is geographically the first nation they reach.
This results in an already overwhelmed system for addressing claims for asylum being further overwhelmed. Genuine refugees who have genuine claims for asylum must face longer waiting times because healthy young Kosovars would rather get a job in Germany than improve their corrupt nation.
False claims for asylum only breeds antagonism against all people attempting to find a new life in the EU.
And when newspapers like the NY Times interchangeably use "Europe" and "European Union", they are obscuring an integral part of the problem that the EU is facing.
Fleeing war and slavery is different than leaving your country for a higher paying job. These economic migrants are the very people who should be fighting to make their own nations less corrupt and more developed rather than running off to find illegal employment in London, Berlin, or Stockholm.
Tens of thousands of young men from Albania, Kosovo, Serbia, Macedonia, and Bosnia are joining the true refugees, traveling the same routes, and claiming asylum when they reach the first nation that they decide is wealthy enough to offer them the economic opportunities they seek.
This is generally Germany. While many would be happy or prefer Scandinavia, the UK, the Netherlands, Germany is geographically the first nation they reach.
This results in an already overwhelmed system for addressing claims for asylum being further overwhelmed. Genuine refugees who have genuine claims for asylum must face longer waiting times because healthy young Kosovars would rather get a job in Germany than improve their corrupt nation.
False claims for asylum only breeds antagonism against all people attempting to find a new life in the EU.
And when newspapers like the NY Times interchangeably use "Europe" and "European Union", they are obscuring an integral part of the problem that the EU is facing.
Fleeing war and slavery is different than leaving your country for a higher paying job. These economic migrants are the very people who should be fighting to make their own nations less corrupt and more developed rather than running off to find illegal employment in London, Berlin, or Stockholm.
112
I believe Angela Merkel said that those from the Balkans would be sent back to their own countries as they were not refugees, but economic migrants. The same could be said of many of those from Africa and should be sent back. Just because you have a bad government does not make you a refuges
2
Gee, and how is this like Mexicans and Central Americans coming to the US by the millions -- when they come from peaceful nations without wars? Mexico is a democracy, the 14th largest economy in the world and has National Health Care. Clearly every illegal from Mexico in the US (and Mexicans make up 70% of all illegals) is here because they want the money and jobs, not because their lives are in danger.
1
What we are seeing the failure of cultures and religions in tandem with a lack of education and well-meaning medical systems that keep everyone alive through to adulthood.
An explosion of population and a lack of an associated coherent culture/society to provide for and educate everyone is the root of the problem.
This is not, and should not be, the E.U.'s problem.
The U.S. suffers exactly the same problem from Latin America.
There are no good solutions when the countries in question take zero responsibility for their own problems.
An explosion of population and a lack of an associated coherent culture/society to provide for and educate everyone is the root of the problem.
This is not, and should not be, the E.U.'s problem.
The U.S. suffers exactly the same problem from Latin America.
There are no good solutions when the countries in question take zero responsibility for their own problems.
8
Perhaps the problem is that the entire leadership of Europe, both in the public and private sectors, certainly everyone with money, power and influence - - - is on holiday. Have you tried doing business with anyone there in the last 3 weeks? They're all gone. And do they want to return to deal with this mess? Probably not, which is very sad indeed.
4
I love how The New York Times feels as though it has the moral authority to preach from it's offices in Manhattan. How about they start to lobby the government or whomever necessary to allow these migrants to come to America?
It's very easy to be moralistic when it's happening thousands of miles away and the consequences don't directly affect you.
Europe cannot take all these migrants in, and by the looks of it, will not. Next idea.
It's very easy to be moralistic when it's happening thousands of miles away and the consequences don't directly affect you.
Europe cannot take all these migrants in, and by the looks of it, will not. Next idea.
20
I am going to make some comments that will bother people, but oh well. No one should criticize Poland for wanting only Christians. First Christians are the most in danger in the Middle Eastf second it will be easier to integrate them into the country and society. Poland only has to see how the Muslim populations have turned against the French and British and they want to avoid the same fate. These immigrants should show that they want to assimilate. If I emigrate to Saudi Arabia I have to assimilate into their society, Europeans want to se the same in reverse. Why allow them to create the same twisted social systems they are escaping. Lastly, there has to be a profound change in the societies they are scraping from. They must show a willingness and drive to fight against the ISIS lunatics and all other fundamentalist nuts. We cannot fight a fight they are not willing to fight themselves.
I expect to get plenty of push back to these sentiments, but many feel and think the same.
I expect to get plenty of push back to these sentiments, but many feel and think the same.
81
(1) 55% get deported as economic migrants - last data from 2014.
Those coming from Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Algeria etc are not 'refugees' (legally those fleeing war or persecution)
(2) The "Open Borders" NYT of course thinks Europe should be happy to have a few million unscreened, unverified 'no ID' Muslims just move in. Many are ditching their documents so they can claim they are Syrian or can't be sent back anywhere.
Tell us again how well a large Muslim population has worked out in France, Denmark, etc (as in not) Only the Open Borders NYT would write " likely exaggerated fears that radical Islamic jihadists will mix with the migrant flow and bring terrorism in... '
Okay lets put 100,000 of them right next to you in NYC & see if you say that!
(3) The EU didn't made these people climb into dinghies or stuff 60 into a 25 ft boat or get in a refrigerator truck. No blame on the EU - the migrants are doing it to themselves.
(4) They are coming from Turkey - safe place with refugee camps for Syrians. They are coming through stable African countries not at war. (What's wrong with Ethiopia or Liberia?)
They have gone through safe poor countries & are really looking for the benefits (job, medical, education) of the wealthy EU - that is economic.
This is an INVASION - like the migrations of 376 to 800 AD which is called "The Barbarian Migrations" and ended Rome
If you think millions Muslims will all assimilate & live by Western standards, you are nuts!
Those coming from Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Algeria etc are not 'refugees' (legally those fleeing war or persecution)
(2) The "Open Borders" NYT of course thinks Europe should be happy to have a few million unscreened, unverified 'no ID' Muslims just move in. Many are ditching their documents so they can claim they are Syrian or can't be sent back anywhere.
Tell us again how well a large Muslim population has worked out in France, Denmark, etc (as in not) Only the Open Borders NYT would write " likely exaggerated fears that radical Islamic jihadists will mix with the migrant flow and bring terrorism in... '
Okay lets put 100,000 of them right next to you in NYC & see if you say that!
(3) The EU didn't made these people climb into dinghies or stuff 60 into a 25 ft boat or get in a refrigerator truck. No blame on the EU - the migrants are doing it to themselves.
(4) They are coming from Turkey - safe place with refugee camps for Syrians. They are coming through stable African countries not at war. (What's wrong with Ethiopia or Liberia?)
They have gone through safe poor countries & are really looking for the benefits (job, medical, education) of the wealthy EU - that is economic.
This is an INVASION - like the migrations of 376 to 800 AD which is called "The Barbarian Migrations" and ended Rome
If you think millions Muslims will all assimilate & live by Western standards, you are nuts!
65
The headline says "migrant crisis," though the report correctly describes the asylum seekers as refugees. When you literally risk death to get away from your homeland, you are not a migrant. You are a refugee. To keep labeling these people as "migrants" is to diminish our obligation to them. Curiously, Western media and policy makers are all too ready to label people in the same predicament as "refugees" when these unfortunates happen to be flooding into some poorer country. Rohingyas fleeing Myanmar, thus, are refugees when they arrive in India or Bangladesh. They would be migrants if they slipped over the border into Germany.
refugees flee , when they keep going until they find just the right place they are migrants
4
Western countries can coordinate and devise military plans with the intentions of invading and overthrowing governments in a short time span, but when it's time to address the consequences of their military actions, they are unwilling and slow to devise a plan or enact policies that will harbor and protect migrants from war-torn countries and the exploitation of their circumstances. The refugee crisis is at its current height because of the lack of situational awareness, proactive planning, and fearful ignorance associated with the migrants religion and nationality. Its time to share the load and become temporary caregivers of these migrants while creating a pathway that allows them to return to their homeland and a chance of a future.
2
They do not want to go back to those homelands. Watch some interviews they're all carrying IPhones and insisting that they HAVE to go to England - despite the fact that as "asylum seekers" they are required to seek refuge in the first safe country they reach. They feel outrageously self-entitles and are brushing the rules away. They want England, Germany, Sweden. The rules of asylum seeking be damned.
4
Why no mention of the causes, ever? The Syrian bloody dictatorship that has made millions of its people homeless, forcing them to go abroad? Why no mention of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other rich Arab countries that could have some pity on their Muslim brothers and take them in?
I just can't understand why the European taxpayers must pay the price of the sectarian wars and inner convulsions of every unhappy country in the Middle East and northern Africa.
I just can't understand why the European taxpayers must pay the price of the sectarian wars and inner convulsions of every unhappy country in the Middle East and northern Africa.
20
The true responsibility lies with russia and iran, who pressed assad and refused to allow him to make any concessions to the syrian people, because those two scumhole dictatorships knew that 15% minority rule by alawites would be unsustatinable, so they had assad use chemical weapons and massacre 300K people. It is russia and iran who should pay to rebuild syria - but have no say in its new leadership.
The P5+1 (except russia) should confiscate the billions being hand-delivered to the terrorist dictatorship of iran via obama's ridiculous nuke deal and funnel it into fixing syria.
The P5+1 (except russia) should confiscate the billions being hand-delivered to the terrorist dictatorship of iran via obama's ridiculous nuke deal and funnel it into fixing syria.
Re your last sentence: said European taxpayers don't understand why they should, either, and they aren't accepting the narratives being flung at them on a daily basis by the ivory tower journalists whose lives, children's schooling, medical care, etc. will never, ever be impacted by mass immigration of huge numbers of Muslims into small and mid-sized formerly coherent European countries.
4
The Darwin approach seems in order. Not insensitive just pragmatic. Let no refuges into Europe. Force them to take action in the countries they are running from. By running away they allow the uglies to rule. Untolorable situations force change within. Cruel? So are deaths from immigrants, so are social changes and huge costs to countries absorbing. This war needs to be fought in Syria, Irag and so forth....not in Western Europe. It needs to be fought by those with the most to lose....those running.
34
It's time for NATO to take control of Libya and then to do the same with Syria and Iraq where the old borders seem gone forever, and then to send the Gulf States both in as policemen and the bill.
5
Sure, as long as putin and khameini pay for the re-building of syria since they broke it. Time for the responsibility and blame to go where it should, at the feet of the russians and iranians.
1
When I was in Iraq in 1991 with the Army we were inundated with women trying to leave their infants with us hoping that we would take them back. One can go to the most backward village in Afghanistan and the TV has CNN and sitcoms and in front of their eyes they see what they think life in the west is. They all want to get out. I did not meet one Iraqi or Afghan who did not want to get out right away or after they had made their fortune and get out later. With modern communications they realize how bad their lives are. Before they would just bear with it. Of course, they want our material benefits but they also want the patriarchal control of women. They all are little Mohammeds......and Mohammed did not take orders from anyone. Europe as we knew it is long gone.
45
These people must fight to retake their own countries from extremists. Shelter them for a while, then send them back to make their countries places worth living in. Temporary asylum should be the norm for dealing with these upheavals.
88
I'm disappointed to see that out of the Times' 11 "picks" out of 225 comments, nearly all are from people who blame the those trying to flee immediate violence -- who is moderating this comment section?!
I'm even more disappointed by The Weasel's comment that "these people" must stay and fight instead of flee to potential safety. Weasel, you might have enough bravado to stay and "fight to retake" some soil if the US spiraled into the violence these communities are fleeing, but would you deny refuge to your closest family or neighbors and demand they must stay put and "must fight"? If the US experienced massive violence and unrest such as bombed buildings so close you think yours is next (and it very well might be), would you really expect civilians -- who, mind you, may not have access to arms and ammo -- to stay in one spot and fight terror? Have you noticed the amount of youth, elderly, and infants in these photos? You also forget that the turmoil in many a country is not the sole result of its citizens; the instability has a lot to do with consequences of international policies that all of us (including the US) had a hand in brewing years ago. They can't possibly stay to fight that, it's too late.
I'm even more disappointed by The Weasel's comment that "these people" must stay and fight instead of flee to potential safety. Weasel, you might have enough bravado to stay and "fight to retake" some soil if the US spiraled into the violence these communities are fleeing, but would you deny refuge to your closest family or neighbors and demand they must stay put and "must fight"? If the US experienced massive violence and unrest such as bombed buildings so close you think yours is next (and it very well might be), would you really expect civilians -- who, mind you, may not have access to arms and ammo -- to stay in one spot and fight terror? Have you noticed the amount of youth, elderly, and infants in these photos? You also forget that the turmoil in many a country is not the sole result of its citizens; the instability has a lot to do with consequences of international policies that all of us (including the US) had a hand in brewing years ago. They can't possibly stay to fight that, it's too late.
The truth is the migrants don't necessarily disagree with the oppressive regimes they are "running" from they are just not happy that their groups isn't in the control group doing the oppression...of course that isn't every body but it is a big enough number that European should be wary about the number of individuals and the background of these individuals that they accept.
The view of many migrants and their advocates is that Europeans have no right to protect their culture or their own people. The Europeans must adapt and change to accommodate the migrants rather than the migrants adapting to the host culture. When faced with problems because the migrants don't speak the language, the response of advocates for the migrants isn't to counsel migrants to learn the language but rather to lecture the host population about their racism for wanting guests to assimilate.
Europe is putting the screws to its own people but then advocates for migrants want increased benefits for them. It is not hard to understand how host populations would resent that type of policy.
Enough is enough.
The view of many migrants and their advocates is that Europeans have no right to protect their culture or their own people. The Europeans must adapt and change to accommodate the migrants rather than the migrants adapting to the host culture. When faced with problems because the migrants don't speak the language, the response of advocates for the migrants isn't to counsel migrants to learn the language but rather to lecture the host population about their racism for wanting guests to assimilate.
Europe is putting the screws to its own people but then advocates for migrants want increased benefits for them. It is not hard to understand how host populations would resent that type of policy.
Enough is enough.
So, now the blame games begin. Disgusting. Every nation mentioned in this article, beginning with the UK and going alphabetically down the line from Europe to the US, and yes, to Australia. ALL have had an equal hand in contributing to the total social, cultural and religious destabilization of Northern Africa and economically strained Middle Eastern nations. There is no going back. Get that one clear from the get-go. These people have every right to flee their leaders abuses and weaknesses. We sure as hell aren't going in there to reverse the damage WE did. There are only two solutions now. Either get used to putting up walls, or admit your hand in the problem and be a part of the solution. Outrageous.
6
Sorry to burst your bubble - but aside from bloody Tony Blair and those Polish beacons of democracy, no Europeans joined the invasion iof Iraq; and only France and UK joined the destrction of Libya.
The Europeans arguing endlessly and without any prospect of making a decision? That's so unlike them, is t it?
6
It would be a very smart and highly just change in the immigration policy of all First World countries if they took steps to withdraw the welcome mat to the corrupt 1%, 01.% and .001% of the world.
As long as the First World gives a hearty welcome to the rich and nasty people making the lives of the 99% of their own nations miserable, we will continue to more and more of that 99% knocking at our doors.
And in this day of cheap travel and determination to join own country's elite in coming to the West, "knocking at our doors" is a literal truth.
As long as the First World gives a hearty welcome to the rich and nasty people making the lives of the 99% of their own nations miserable, we will continue to more and more of that 99% knocking at our doors.
And in this day of cheap travel and determination to join own country's elite in coming to the West, "knocking at our doors" is a literal truth.
1
Losers all around... bad situation for refugees, the countries they migrate to, and the countries they migrate from... the world just has to collectively share the burden of this global suffering.
2
Can we please have an end to the double-speak that describes illegal immigration into the EU as a "crisis" facing European governments? If I leave my door unlocked and find a homeless couple sitting at my dinner table do I have a crisis? No, I just have call the cops and my problem will be solved. I will certainly not say ugly things about them. And I will support my government spending money to help them where they live. I will support the cops who protect them from thugs and perverts who make their neighborhood difficult. That's the way it should be.
6
European countries cannot be blamed, except The Vatican, for the poor decisions of hundreds of millions of poor people in Africa and many other places, who reproduce themselves without responsibility When a person who cannot even feed himself/herself brings children to the World that person shows it does not care about their children or anybody else, but only about satisfying his/her urges without any responsibility.
The Church, if it wants to actually serve the people of the World has to tell people to stop having children they cannot support.
Neither Africans or anyone else have the right to expect other people to support them.
Europe has to close its borders before it is destroyed by an avalanche of hundreds of millions of unskilled people who only want to be taken care of just because they say so. Neither Europe or any other part of the World can resolve the uncontrolled reproduction of unskilled people who cannot support themselves. Those people need to learn to control themselves and we can help with education and birth control.
The Church, if it wants to actually serve the people of the World has to tell people to stop having children they cannot support.
Neither Africans or anyone else have the right to expect other people to support them.
Europe has to close its borders before it is destroyed by an avalanche of hundreds of millions of unskilled people who only want to be taken care of just because they say so. Neither Europe or any other part of the World can resolve the uncontrolled reproduction of unskilled people who cannot support themselves. Those people need to learn to control themselves and we can help with education and birth control.
23
The Vatican has nothing to do with the overpopulation in Muslim countries, so your comment doesn't make sense. It is not Catholics from 3rd world countries who are invading Europe, they are mostly young Muslim men.
Except the people coming are not Christians, let alone Catholics -- they are overwhelmingly MUSLIMS coming not from Africa but from the Middle East.
When the masses of very poor in AFRICA start emulating this behavior -- fleeing to wealthy western nations so as to live off the largess of welfare there -- then our gooses are really cooked.
When the masses of very poor in AFRICA start emulating this behavior -- fleeing to wealthy western nations so as to live off the largess of welfare there -- then our gooses are really cooked.
The Vatican convinced Syrian Muslims to eschew birth control?
We in America should not be quick to judge the europeans - We have only one government in charge of borders and still have not solved our own border crises.
3
Just allow unchecked immigration until host nation becomes indistinguishable from failed nation of origin. Immigration problem solved.
17
Why don't all of those young men stay and fight for their homeland?
29
Gee. Maybe the EU leaders might have thought about coming back from their holidays early, perhaps? No, why would they. A bunch of entitled, overpaid bureaucrats who have "earnt" their 6 going on 20 weeks of vacation a year.
2
The thing is migrants do not have a "right" to enter any other country.
What is needed is to correct the abysmal conditions that force them to migrate.
If fault is being looked for, look at the Russian government and the Iranian government; they are the ones who have sent Syria's dictator Assad billions of dollars worth of military hardware: tanks, jets, bombs, artillery, missiles, helicopters, machine guns and ammunition. Plus military advisers and even troops in the case of Iran. It is Putin and Khamenei and Assad who are responsible for the migration crisis NOT the Europeans.
I feel sorry for the Syrian refugees and we should help with setting up refugee camps for them, but allowing them to immigrate is not a good idea for the US, nor is it a good idea for our European allies.
The solution we should have followed was to bomb Assad when we planned, after he used nerve gas on his own people, and we should have provided massive arms support to his opposition, before ISIS took over large areas. If we had acted with resolve (but not with invading troops) we probably could have prevented over a hundred thousand deaths in Syria. We do still have one likely effective way to intervene quickly and that is by encouraging and assisting Turkey to overthrow Assad by force. Or are we going to continue to wring our hands, talk about maybe doing something and watch while taking ineffective half measures?
What is needed is to correct the abysmal conditions that force them to migrate.
If fault is being looked for, look at the Russian government and the Iranian government; they are the ones who have sent Syria's dictator Assad billions of dollars worth of military hardware: tanks, jets, bombs, artillery, missiles, helicopters, machine guns and ammunition. Plus military advisers and even troops in the case of Iran. It is Putin and Khamenei and Assad who are responsible for the migration crisis NOT the Europeans.
I feel sorry for the Syrian refugees and we should help with setting up refugee camps for them, but allowing them to immigrate is not a good idea for the US, nor is it a good idea for our European allies.
The solution we should have followed was to bomb Assad when we planned, after he used nerve gas on his own people, and we should have provided massive arms support to his opposition, before ISIS took over large areas. If we had acted with resolve (but not with invading troops) we probably could have prevented over a hundred thousand deaths in Syria. We do still have one likely effective way to intervene quickly and that is by encouraging and assisting Turkey to overthrow Assad by force. Or are we going to continue to wring our hands, talk about maybe doing something and watch while taking ineffective half measures?
70
There are no other reasons than the pursuit of happyness. We should have supported Assad against the Saudis first of all, if you want to change the situation in Syria, See what is happening in the Yemen if you let those perldivers do politics. Assad was ok when the US needed torture during their rendition flights, btw.
Excellent post, 100% on each and every point. Had we had a real president, and a real news media led by this "publication", that was more interested in providing facts instead of running interference for the democratic party and their owner carlos slim as they proffer lunatic positions like open borders and amnesty for mexican/hispanic illegals, we might have actually done something to help the syrians.
Obama could have created a no-fly/safe zone inside syria as most of the mideast recommended he do, so that the fleeing syrians had somewhere to go, but of course, in his amateur fecklessness as a leader he failed miserably, by doing nothing and being led by the nose by wretched filth like Lavrov and khameini/sulemeini. Just pathetic, and could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and established a newly-made syria with a functioning government that would have kept ISIS from gaining a foothold.
Obama could have created a no-fly/safe zone inside syria as most of the mideast recommended he do, so that the fleeing syrians had somewhere to go, but of course, in his amateur fecklessness as a leader he failed miserably, by doing nothing and being led by the nose by wretched filth like Lavrov and khameini/sulemeini. Just pathetic, and could have saved hundreds of thousands of lives and established a newly-made syria with a functioning government that would have kept ISIS from gaining a foothold.
1
We have a big, Little Somalia in Minneapolis, with an outpost in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. The population curve is exponential since Minnesota taxpayers cover all the bills and infant mortality is close to zero. Our teachers, social workers, police, public defenders, translators, professional apologists, and other government funded providers love the influx. The foreigners provide them with jobs and they don't have to live near them or send their kids to the same schools. Too bad some of the younger Muslim kids are sneaking out to join ISIS. That embarrasses Minnesota and reduces our need for generous taxpayer services.
Sorry, but we're all out of food stamps.
8
Any appeals happening? Anywhere ordinary people can donate to help purchase everyday things like baby formula. Any know?
Google "oxfam Syria refugees".
I see no difference between the popular commenters here and Donald trump and his followers, all of you'll advocate for a welfare state while ensuring racial and cultural isolation. The real issue in the west is not capitalism vs socialism, it is loss of white privilege which is drawing outrage among the left as well as the right.
3
Oh please. This is just outsized media coverage of.deaths on this scale that have been occurring almost weekly for the past few years, but the nytimes only decides now to make it their top story.
Listen, it's obvious what needs to happen. The eu needs a coherant immigration policy that restricts economic migrants from illegally entering the eu. I emphasize the word "illegally". If they are breaking the law, they need to be deported. And we need birth control in Africa. Can we say this without being deemedi insensitive?
Listen, it's obvious what needs to happen. The eu needs a coherant immigration policy that restricts economic migrants from illegally entering the eu. I emphasize the word "illegally". If they are breaking the law, they need to be deported. And we need birth control in Africa. Can we say this without being deemedi insensitive?
20
Canada with a population of 33 million takes in about 250,000 immigrants a year, 1% of the population has been the goal for a few decades. The difference is these are vetted, processed people. When a few hundred Tamils showed up unannounced, panic set in to the point the feds. go searching and deter in their home waters lest they even close to the BC shoreline.
9
Thank you for your honesty. Canada is famous for pre-screening all immigrants for healthy persoanl funds and marketable skills. The U.S., in turn, takes the dregs, and our citizens are paying the bills.
1
Canada (very correctly in my view) has strict immigration laws, and secure borders. It also helps they are 1000 miles from Mexico. Canada only allows immigration for affluent, educated and skilled applicants -- heck, they won't even take most Americans who apply.
This despite being the 2nd largest nation in terms of land mass, and having vast areas they could be populating. However, Canada is being very realistic about the true costs of that kind of immigration or letting in masses of poor refugees, which would upset the apple cart of their "single payer" health care.
This despite being the 2nd largest nation in terms of land mass, and having vast areas they could be populating. However, Canada is being very realistic about the true costs of that kind of immigration or letting in masses of poor refugees, which would upset the apple cart of their "single payer" health care.
1
Nobody, especially politicians, talk about the elephant in the room. The greatest peril we face is overpopulation. And because of it, tragedies like this are our new reality. Most of these people are fleeing poor economies where there is little chance that there will ever be an escape from joblessness and poverty. As populations run out of control—and they are growing fastest in underdeveloped nations—there will be no end to mass migrations of people seeking better circumstances. They simply have no alternative. And the places they flee to have their own populations and stressed economies to manage. Unless we figure out a way to say "11,000,000,000" (that's billion, predicted by century's end) is simply TOO MANY PEOPLE, we will see this again and again and again.
168
I don't think this is a population problem. It is an issue revolving around war and deprivation. There is plenty of space in the middle east, much more so than Europe, but there is not a functioning government, a rule of law or a respect for women. We can forget the respect for women, that has always been the case in the Middle East, but the wars are the main issue and I'm sorry to say that the US has played a big part in that mess.
From what I understand, America is GREAT place for several hundred million more. Politicians here wave some magic wand and--Voila-- ! -- the country is suddenly capable of hosting hundreds of millions more.
That may be the case for the migrants in this case, but overall, people migrate for economic opportunity. And I cannot be convinced that 11,000,000,000 people is unsustainable insofar as economies, natural resources, energy, and water. Worst of all, 11,000,000,000 people will (and actually is, right now) devastate bio-diversity.
1
Many European countries are in severe financial trouble, not only Greece. Both Spain and Italy also have high rates of unemployment. They are being flooded by migrants who are demanding that they be fed and housed. These people are not invited and yet they are demanding better treatment. How can countries spend huge sums on migrants when they have plenty of their own people who need assistance. Greece, which is virtually bankrupt, is expected to spend money it doesn't have rescuing migrants from unsafe boats. Instead of taking care of their own they are spending their valuable resources taking care of people who were not invited. After these migrants arrive they have no interest in assimilating but maintain enclaves with their own customs and demand the rest of society kowtow to them.
Europe should make it clear they will be returned to their country of origin. If they are refugees from Syria they should be handed over to a Muslim country like Turkey or Saudi Arabia which has plenty of monetary resources to take care of them.
Europe should make it clear they will be returned to their country of origin. If they are refugees from Syria they should be handed over to a Muslim country like Turkey or Saudi Arabia which has plenty of monetary resources to take care of them.
201
Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon have 3.5 million refugees from Syria. Compare this to the 310,000 from all over that have crossed over in to Europe this year, according to the article.
Also according to the article, the EU ministers are meeting this week to discuss how they can address the humanitarian crisis in a way consistent with their values. Maybe we should try that, too.
Also according to the article, the EU ministers are meeting this week to discuss how they can address the humanitarian crisis in a way consistent with their values. Maybe we should try that, too.
1
I have heard interviews from many of the Syrians who were originally in Turkish camps but left for Europe for better benefits, education etc.
3
Saudi Arabia's oil monarchy, really a facist dictatorship, is one of they key players in the making of this ongoing and escalating madness; the original driver were the Bushies and Cheney lead disrupters and profiteers.
1
Criticize? who criticize?. Let the nations who criticize Europe take 1 million refugees as a start.
7
The picture of those guys sleeping on benches in Belgrade tells a story not to dissimilar to today's Times story about housing the homeless.. Notice the garbage all over the park in the Belgrade picture, and the filth in the apartment in Brooklyn. Why is homelessness often associated with filth conditions? Is this one of the reasons why people don't want them around?
6
The homeless don't exactly have the same access to plastic garbage bags that the rest of us do.
And about 1/3 of the homeless, if not more, are mentally ill.
And probably the majority of the refugees have enough trouble staying alive and can't be as fastidious as we would like.
And about 1/3 of the homeless, if not more, are mentally ill.
And probably the majority of the refugees have enough trouble staying alive and can't be as fastidious as we would like.
1
Get rid of Bashar Hafez al-Assad! Don't try to cure the symptoms, go after the infectious agent.
2
Hmmm. All of the world ponders how to deal with asylum seekers and refugees. Mexico is NOT Syria. The migrants crossing the U.S. Southern border are not fleeing the same thing as those in Syria and battle-ridden areas of Middle East. Enough is enough - stop complaining and take accountability to bring order to those nations they're fleeing from. Enough of the world seems concerned. Put your strength where your mouth is.
What country can afford such an influx of migrants? It has to be stopped one way or another.
13
It's mainly the British and Polish that dont want to do their fair share, two nations that were praise by Rumsfeld for participating in the Irak war and thus starting the destabalization of the Middle East...most refuges come from these countries and Europe is paying for the mess the US and its European allies created. Germany was not among them !
1
The whole migration issue has been contributed by the war in Iraq, Afghanistan started by US, Britain, Australia, New Zealand, and token support by NATO. They fomented trouble in Syria, Egypt, and other places. These countries are being reduced to dust and their citizens running for life. Of course, Bush, Cheney, and Tony Blair were the architects of this. Now, they and their countries (US, UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc) should provide homes to those running away from the hell created by these politicians and take care of them.
5
Don't forget this problem was created by the "coalition of the willing" led by the United States of America. The US should own this refugee problem rather than leaving it to Europe. Perhaps Cheney/Halliburton could enrich themselves further by being sent in to solve the problem they created.
8
Your point might have more weight if the people involved comprised only refugees affected by the 'coalition of the willing', but they don't. There are now waves of economic migrants from sub-Saharan Africa in the mix now that news is out that Europe's borders are open. There is now no need to even go through the regular immigration procedures. True, they are arriving through a chaotic Libya, but they are not all refugees - not by a long way.
You know who Europe is getting criticism from? The host populations whose preferred solution is 1) not to let the migrants in, and 2) for their governments to grow a spine and send the migrants back where they came from.
These are illegal immigrants breaking into Europe and refusing to be "resettled" in any but a few handpicked countries, none of which want them.
They are all overwhelmingly Muslim, and Europe is already having a problem with its Muslims and is looking alarmed at the demographic projects for Europe in 100 years or so and what it could mean for their grandchildren.
The UN, the leftwing journalists, the Guardian, the Independent - they're trying with all their might to swing public opinion, but if you read the comments in any of these publications, even in the most leftwing you can see the rejection of the assumption that it should be Europe taking them in, busting their already strained benefits system (Marx: you can have a successful welfare state or mass immigration, but not both), asking nothing, absolutely nothing, of wealthy Arab/Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Dubai . . . where Islam is already dominant.
Europeans are courting the rise of fascism, while their ivory tower EU journalists and EU bureaucrats waggle moralizing fingers at obdurate electorates who know once the floodgates are open there will be no end and Islam will engulf Europe.
Europe needs to get some guts and say NO.
These are illegal immigrants breaking into Europe and refusing to be "resettled" in any but a few handpicked countries, none of which want them.
They are all overwhelmingly Muslim, and Europe is already having a problem with its Muslims and is looking alarmed at the demographic projects for Europe in 100 years or so and what it could mean for their grandchildren.
The UN, the leftwing journalists, the Guardian, the Independent - they're trying with all their might to swing public opinion, but if you read the comments in any of these publications, even in the most leftwing you can see the rejection of the assumption that it should be Europe taking them in, busting their already strained benefits system (Marx: you can have a successful welfare state or mass immigration, but not both), asking nothing, absolutely nothing, of wealthy Arab/Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman, Qatar, Dubai . . . where Islam is already dominant.
Europeans are courting the rise of fascism, while their ivory tower EU journalists and EU bureaucrats waggle moralizing fingers at obdurate electorates who know once the floodgates are open there will be no end and Islam will engulf Europe.
Europe needs to get some guts and say NO.
290
If you read the article, you would know that most of your comment is wrong on the facts.
Europe needs to get some guts and act in accordance with their values. Europe already experienced the "Me First and to the Concentration Camps with everyone else.".
Europe needs to get some guts and act in accordance with their values. Europe already experienced the "Me First and to the Concentration Camps with everyone else.".
Hey, just like here in the U.S.A.! The NYT is mightily striving to reverse public opinion against illegal immigration. The vast majority of populations in Europe and U.S.A. don't want anything to do with illegal immigration, but the 1% and their bought-and-owned press keep pushing it, allowing it to happen: they want votes and they want the cheapest labor possible. The civilized world as we know it is on track to self-combust.
2
Astute analysis. Wish you were around when Europe was colonizing and exploiting much of the world. What goes around, comes around.
It looks like in the pictures, only the men from other countries are fleeing war and impoverishment. If they had been on the Titanic, they would have thrown the women and children off the ship and hijacked the life boats.
17
These people are our brothers and sisters. Not so long ago the Irish were escaping poverty and repression and sailing on 'coffin ships' to North America. Our historical memory is so short.
4
Yes, you are correct. But it was a young America, industrializing and in need of skilled labor and hardworkers who could be assimilated into American cuture and accept the American way of life. Now, it seems that overpopulation and poorly trained and educated migrants with little interest or ability to assimilate are burdening an overcrowded Europe and straing their physical and emotional resources to the breaking point.
3
The trillions of dollars that the world has sent to Africa, the Middle East, South America, and other countries never seemed to have done much to help out the peoples of the world in these areas.
Africa and the Middle East always had problems, so why couldn't companies
invest in these areas rather that in China? Of course, the answer would likely be "stability".
China of course is a very controlled country, but very stable.
Perhaps, other solutions or dialogues are needed to figure out the main problems, rather than the trillions of dollars that have been sent to the troubled areas.
The old expression about showing a person how to fish rather than feeding him the fish might have to be rethought in terms of the terrible events that we see happening today.
Africa and the Middle East always had problems, so why couldn't companies
invest in these areas rather that in China? Of course, the answer would likely be "stability".
China of course is a very controlled country, but very stable.
Perhaps, other solutions or dialogues are needed to figure out the main problems, rather than the trillions of dollars that have been sent to the troubled areas.
The old expression about showing a person how to fish rather than feeding him the fish might have to be rethought in terms of the terrible events that we see happening today.
7
And these critics...Are they at all pointing out the responsibilities of other countries besides those of Europe?
And most of all, How are the home countries of many immigrants, How are they being held responsible?
I have been subscribing to the NYTimes for more than 35 years, but what has become its unstoppable advocacy journalism threatens the integrity of the entire newspaper.
And most of all, How are the home countries of many immigrants, How are they being held responsible?
I have been subscribing to the NYTimes for more than 35 years, but what has become its unstoppable advocacy journalism threatens the integrity of the entire newspaper.
29
As Germany has stated, though they are being generous with acceptance of so many refugees at this time, they cannot do so forever.
There are now thousands of people seeking exit from their countries, many looking to a better life. So long as these countries have a somewhat open door policy, many more will flock there, with the number continuing and likely even much larger numbers coming to Europe.
How many of these migrants have views which are antithetical to those of democratic nations, how many may conceivably support radical Islamists, with no intention of ever becoming assimilated to their new European homes and cultures?
There are now thousands of people seeking exit from their countries, many looking to a better life. So long as these countries have a somewhat open door policy, many more will flock there, with the number continuing and likely even much larger numbers coming to Europe.
How many of these migrants have views which are antithetical to those of democratic nations, how many may conceivably support radical Islamists, with no intention of ever becoming assimilated to their new European homes and cultures?
105
Isn't there a better chance of finding and tracking the few bad apples by making them go through legal channels than forcing them to go underground?
1
Well, pretty much all western nations, including the Americas, have tolerated insular religious fanatic communities in their midst for at least since the 1800s, no? As far as some with malicious intent sneaking in, sure, it's bound to happen but I'm pretty sure many of those future terrorists have been in EU countries for decades and new ones probably just fly in instead of torturing themselves as refugees.
1
How long are supposedly logical and realistic European governments going to wallow in sentiments only saints can afford? How long until disgusted citizens elect nationalist parties that really crack down on immigration? How long before European atheist lapsed Christians are overrun by Muslim die hards? How long for common sense to become common?
9
Why is nobody asking how many of these people have Brazil accepted, or China, or Russia, or India, South Africa, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Indonesia, or the US? Why is this considered to be an EU problem vs one for Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, etc. The EU has already gone above and beyond what should be reasonably expected.
128
You appear to be ignorant of the fact that millions of African migrants flood into South Africa each year. They come from all over - the DRC, Sudan, Malawi and, of course, mostly Zimbabwe. We never encounter Namibians or Botswanas, but then these are relatively prosperous and stable countries.
Perhaps if we hadn't helped create the IS through our own foolish actions in the first place...
37
Or foolish INaction... as in letting the Syrian civil war drag on and on and on, a civil war that had its antecedent in the Arab Spring, a democratic moment which we also failed to support wholeheartedly...
1
What do you mean, "we"?
I didn't vote for him - either time - and I spoke out publicly, repeatedly, against that "war".
I did not help to create ISIS.
I didn't vote for him - either time - and I spoke out publicly, repeatedly, against that "war".
I did not help to create ISIS.
The notion that the US helped create ISIS fails to acknowledge the absolute preponderance of evidence which points back to the 18th century font of Wahhabism...this is even before the Obama administration. And, don't forget the outbreak of oil-money-grub-steaked Whahhabi madrasas starting in the 1950's.
1
Germany is to be applauded for all the responsible action it has taken for these immigrants. Those countries who are evading their responsibility should be ashamed. All the Germany haters should be ashamed. They've paid the bill for most of Europe, for a very long time.
22
They must be a bunch racists if they don't want to repopulate their country with a bunch of third world invaders .
2
You sarcasm is acknowledged. I don't think it's racism, as much as it is suspicion of a culture with a history of refusing to synthesize with it's host culture, and who seem to expect free benefits. It's a burden, particularly for a country that has shouldered so many of Europe's burdens. There's also the worry of WHO these people may be--terrorists, some of them?
1
As the population of the world continues to spiral out of control, this situation will continue to worsen.
34
Well there's only one thing that will do it, conquer and pacify the several war-torn nations producing the refugees. If that isn't done, people will keep fleeing until those nations are cleared out of all but jihadists and gun enthusiasts.
Really I don't see what's so difficult to understand about this. These people are fleeing because their homelands are entirely unlivable. Their homelands are unlivable because of the insane civil and holy wars raging there. Stop the wars to stop the crisis. If we don't stop the wars, the crisis won't stop.
I mean, I guess they could be put in permanent walled enclosures like Lebanon did with the Palestinians, but that doesn't seem to be such a great solution, and should remind people of the concentration camps from not long ago.
Really I don't see what's so difficult to understand about this. These people are fleeing because their homelands are entirely unlivable. Their homelands are unlivable because of the insane civil and holy wars raging there. Stop the wars to stop the crisis. If we don't stop the wars, the crisis won't stop.
I mean, I guess they could be put in permanent walled enclosures like Lebanon did with the Palestinians, but that doesn't seem to be such a great solution, and should remind people of the concentration camps from not long ago.
6
"Stopping the wars" means Americans boots on the ground in Syria, where most of these new refugees appear to be coming from. That ain't never gonna happen -- never. Look at the response to the Iran treaty! Americans are so sick of war in the Middle East, it would take another 9/11 to get them to agree to go back. They certainly won't do it for a bunch of refugees who are mostly adult men fleeing military action.
There seems to be a commonly held idea that it is the West's responsibility to figure out *how* to accept all of these refugees and economic opportunists, as opposed to whether or not the West *should* accept them in the first place.
America tried Amnesty under Reagan. What happened? At least 11 million (more likely way more) poor and uneducated Mexican, Central and South American people ran to our country as soon as possible.
We're now right back where we started. Even worse... because now these economic opportunists arrive and run TOWARDS border agents! Astonishingly they dare to take to our streets and protest our government for rights that do not belong to them. They have the audacity to demand Amnesty. Everybody with an ounce of common sense understands that as soon as we do this another 50 million will come looking for Amnesty Wave #3.
Europe is under siege from some refugees but manly from economic opportunists. How do I know this? Because they are overwhelmingly Adult Men.. and because as soon as they get to Europe they make a bee-line to the UK, Germany, Norway, and Sweden. Why would a refugee need to brave the Chunnel to get from France to the UK?
The answer is simple. Money.
How many think these new entrants will integrate into society? Will they come here and accept women's rights? Will they come here and accept gay rights?
I think Western citizens deserve answers to these questions before they are asked to take millions of refugees.
America tried Amnesty under Reagan. What happened? At least 11 million (more likely way more) poor and uneducated Mexican, Central and South American people ran to our country as soon as possible.
We're now right back where we started. Even worse... because now these economic opportunists arrive and run TOWARDS border agents! Astonishingly they dare to take to our streets and protest our government for rights that do not belong to them. They have the audacity to demand Amnesty. Everybody with an ounce of common sense understands that as soon as we do this another 50 million will come looking for Amnesty Wave #3.
Europe is under siege from some refugees but manly from economic opportunists. How do I know this? Because they are overwhelmingly Adult Men.. and because as soon as they get to Europe they make a bee-line to the UK, Germany, Norway, and Sweden. Why would a refugee need to brave the Chunnel to get from France to the UK?
The answer is simple. Money.
How many think these new entrants will integrate into society? Will they come here and accept women's rights? Will they come here and accept gay rights?
I think Western citizens deserve answers to these questions before they are asked to take millions of refugees.
158
Illegal aliens do this in the US because of lefty liberalism and the lefty press, which encourage this kind of behavior (marching for their "rights" while waving Mexican flags) and the fact that once you are HERE, the chances of being deported are infinitesimal. There are illegal alien journalists who openly brag about their illegal status, and yet have posh jobs and access to the media!
I am sure Europe has observed the tragedy HERE in the US with our Southern border and is absolutely terrified of the same thing -- it is not only insanely costly to have a huge influx of poor uneducated and unskilled refugees, but it brings with it social dysfunction, violence and poverty. To the lux European socialist welfare state, this could be very destabilizing. On top of that, Mexican and Central American illegals are virtually all Christians -- the Syrian refugees are all Muslims. European culture is ill-prepared to accept huge numbers of Muslims and integrate them into Europe's lefty agnostic socialist culture.
I am sure Europe has observed the tragedy HERE in the US with our Southern border and is absolutely terrified of the same thing -- it is not only insanely costly to have a huge influx of poor uneducated and unskilled refugees, but it brings with it social dysfunction, violence and poverty. To the lux European socialist welfare state, this could be very destabilizing. On top of that, Mexican and Central American illegals are virtually all Christians -- the Syrian refugees are all Muslims. European culture is ill-prepared to accept huge numbers of Muslims and integrate them into Europe's lefty agnostic socialist culture.
3
Expecting immediate solutions is kind of like driving a tractor trailer onto ice and slamming the breaks. There is so much inertia already; too much to handle. Even if they tighten policies tomorrow: what is to be done with those already en route? Or those already inside, but not yet integrated into the communities?
The seeds of this problem have been germinating for some time. Like almost every other large scale human challenge (e.g. climate change), we await the moment before catastrophe until we act.
The seeds of this problem have been germinating for some time. Like almost every other large scale human challenge (e.g. climate change), we await the moment before catastrophe until we act.
12
That's Eu, it means nothing. Unfortunately we, european people, were caught up in the financial ( and economic) crisis and we discovered that we hadn't any european communty but only countries putting together the courrency and mandatory rules which were designed when things were going on themselves.
What is happening for migrants is the same that happened when the economics crisis appeared: no unity, no federation, no a collective response and management, no any kind of common rescue plan.
That's why we are still in troubles and will be so for years to come. Unfortunately for them, it will be the same for all the people who are suffering in their contries and trying to get a new life in european countries.
They will be joining us meanwhile we will need to go somewhere else to find a new way to study, to run business and to handle our lives. It is sad to say, but it is, this is Europe. But not the Spinelli's one, this is the one belongings to the new ruling class, the one which came up from nothing.
What is happening for migrants is the same that happened when the economics crisis appeared: no unity, no federation, no a collective response and management, no any kind of common rescue plan.
That's why we are still in troubles and will be so for years to come. Unfortunately for them, it will be the same for all the people who are suffering in their contries and trying to get a new life in european countries.
They will be joining us meanwhile we will need to go somewhere else to find a new way to study, to run business and to handle our lives. It is sad to say, but it is, this is Europe. But not the Spinelli's one, this is the one belongings to the new ruling class, the one which came up from nothing.
5
Why aren't the European navies blocking the transit of the illegal immigrants across the Aegean and across the Mediterranean? Europe has lost the will or the ability or both to defend its civilization and its way of life.
98
That would be very poor. It is not a solution for Europe. We don't Need Protection. There is no need to protect europeans. The refugees need protection. And we warnt to help them! Turkey alone recorded 2000000 refugees.
Agreed that this is an enormously important issue for all of us. A little hard to take the superior tone of the article, though. The "United" States are hardly united on immigration. There are bodies all across the southwest deserts and plenty of people who live their lives in daily fear of deportation. And, as the article confesses at the end, the US is largely responsible for the wars and instability that are producing this emigration from war-torn and failed/destroyed States. The Europeans have been doing pretty well for the last several years. They have absorbed large numbers of immigrants. England's population/demographics has been completely transformed. Angela Merkel has had her feet on the ground on this issue, working with cities which are undergoing violent backlashes against large numbers of immigrants arriving faster and faster. She deserves respect.
There are lots of cultural and economic and security (not just terrorism) issues involved here. In fact, this kind of migration affects the life of everyone on all levels. Let's see how well all the nations can come together on this. Too few are bearing too much of the burden right now.
There are lots of cultural and economic and security (not just terrorism) issues involved here. In fact, this kind of migration affects the life of everyone on all levels. Let's see how well all the nations can come together on this. Too few are bearing too much of the burden right now.
4
While we all sympathize with the migrants, the root of the problem is in the home countries riddled with corruption, overpopulation and above all, low status for women with little chance to work or plan their childbearing, which in turn leads to resource mismanagement and poverty.
To blame the European people for this is an outrage when the problem is clearly caused by the failed leadership in the source countries.
There are upwards of 2-3 billion potential migrants looking to take advantage of the stable societies and welfare systems of the West-- taking in even a tiny fraction of that massive population would destroy Europe and the First World, solving nothing while spreading the misery to other continents and leaving no hope for foreign aid or recovery at all.
Pushing for Europe to take in the migrants is absolute insanity-- a failure of not only Angela Merkel and other European leaders but also the Western press (including many US outlets) that they have been unwilling to speak this necessary truth. The most humane thing for Europe to do would be to lock down the borders, as Israel has wisely done amid its own refugee flood, thus deterring the migrants and increasing pressure in the source countries for reforms.
Above all, women in the sending countries must be given a greater say and the West must do everything it can to help this. If Merkel and other leaders are unwilling to take such steps and confront the problem at the source, then they must resign immediately.
To blame the European people for this is an outrage when the problem is clearly caused by the failed leadership in the source countries.
There are upwards of 2-3 billion potential migrants looking to take advantage of the stable societies and welfare systems of the West-- taking in even a tiny fraction of that massive population would destroy Europe and the First World, solving nothing while spreading the misery to other continents and leaving no hope for foreign aid or recovery at all.
Pushing for Europe to take in the migrants is absolute insanity-- a failure of not only Angela Merkel and other European leaders but also the Western press (including many US outlets) that they have been unwilling to speak this necessary truth. The most humane thing for Europe to do would be to lock down the borders, as Israel has wisely done amid its own refugee flood, thus deterring the migrants and increasing pressure in the source countries for reforms.
Above all, women in the sending countries must be given a greater say and the West must do everything it can to help this. If Merkel and other leaders are unwilling to take such steps and confront the problem at the source, then they must resign immediately.
97
Let's compare the size of Israel with the size of Europe. Who would have an easier time of locking down borders?
In Islam, women are chattel and have no say in their lives and this belief will come with the refugees.
No one in any civilized country can but shudder to see a woman covered from head to foot in heavy black cloth in hot weather while her husband wears shorts and a tee shirt strolling next to her.
The First World cannot change Islam. We ignore this influx of misogynist men and subservient women at our peril.
No one in any civilized country can but shudder to see a woman covered from head to foot in heavy black cloth in hot weather while her husband wears shorts and a tee shirt strolling next to her.
The First World cannot change Islam. We ignore this influx of misogynist men and subservient women at our peril.
6
The secret of Angela Merkel's unwarranted success is that she has been unwilling to confront any problems, always maneuvering to be on all sides of all issues while holding no convictions beyond own power. Greece, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria - terrible mistakes to admit to the EU - the talk of Serbia etc joining a joke.
1
A few professors from the ivory tower in Oxford criticize Europe. To begin with why is Africa and wealthy Mideast countries pushing their own less fortunate on Europe. Europe simply is overwhelmed by the largeness of the influx. Less wealthy European countries are more ill equipped. Given the recent terrorists and criminal activity from the countries of origin, European leaders must answer to their requirements to manage just who is allowed in.
64
To those blaming the US for this:
This part of the world has been messed up for centuries. If not for oil, they would have nothing.
And as for a solution, it's simple:
Send them all back.
Letting millions of migrants in will lead to nothing but economic, cultural, and political disaster. In this case, the road to hell truly is paved with good intentions.
This part of the world has been messed up for centuries. If not for oil, they would have nothing.
And as for a solution, it's simple:
Send them all back.
Letting millions of migrants in will lead to nothing but economic, cultural, and political disaster. In this case, the road to hell truly is paved with good intentions.
93
These countries had leaders that were dictators by US standards, but kept their countries in check. The US has been in war for the last 12-13 years in the region, removed those dictators, and now what? none of those countries are really any better off, the money is spent, ISIS is growing, nobody even tries to stop it, and you are saying the US has no role in all this? perhaps you should try and read some non-US newspapers. European countries are paying now for a situation created by the US, by war with one country after the other in the region.
<"Given the lack of legal avenues" for the refugees to come to Europe>
NO. There is a legal mechanism. It's being gamed and the numbers are overwhelming. And Europe has no idea of who these people are.
The NYT keeps writing these kind of pieces that don't tell the story of the people in Europe, in their own countries, who see their resources being used for largely young, male, economic migrants, while their own needs are unmet.
Those politicians had better get a handle on the "migration" at the sources and stop it. If they don't their nations will be overrun, bankrupt and irreversibly changed for the worse.
NO. There is a legal mechanism. It's being gamed and the numbers are overwhelming. And Europe has no idea of who these people are.
The NYT keeps writing these kind of pieces that don't tell the story of the people in Europe, in their own countries, who see their resources being used for largely young, male, economic migrants, while their own needs are unmet.
Those politicians had better get a handle on the "migration" at the sources and stop it. If they don't their nations will be overrun, bankrupt and irreversibly changed for the worse.
157
It's to late... you people should have seen this coming years ago as I did.. the problem is overpopulation... overpopulation, no jobs and no industries to provide those jobs... pure and simple overpopulation........ Coming soon to any country near you.
2
@straightshooter: it is certainly a factor here, but not the only factor. For some reason, lefty liberals utterly abandoned the philosophy of Zero Population Growth back in the 70s....I think because it was too uncomfortable to suggest to poor people that they were "not worthy" to have as many children as they choose to. And because telling poor third-worlders not to reproduce ran counter to those cultures and their beliefs about family and children. In any event, ZPG is about as dead as a door knocker as a political philosophy could be -- even affluent white professionals cheerfully have 3-4 children if they want, especially if divorces are involved.
I have to agree with this submission. The people of the country's are not in a position to share their resources with new immigrants. The EU is getting overwhelmed. I can't understand why countries in the middle east don't help.
Saudi Arabia is largely an empty country. Set up camps there. Israel is also located in that part of the world. However, I don't see much help being offered by them. Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt. What is being done by these regional countries to stem the flow, NOTHING.
So, let us see some regional help. The countries these immigrants are heading for should also protect themselves. Looking at the photos it becomes obvious that the majority of the migrants are young disillusioned men, primarily without families with them.
I feel sorry for the Europeans, not the economic migrants.
Saudi Arabia is largely an empty country. Set up camps there. Israel is also located in that part of the world. However, I don't see much help being offered by them. Jordan, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt. What is being done by these regional countries to stem the flow, NOTHING.
So, let us see some regional help. The countries these immigrants are heading for should also protect themselves. Looking at the photos it becomes obvious that the majority of the migrants are young disillusioned men, primarily without families with them.
I feel sorry for the Europeans, not the economic migrants.
1
I have difficulty feeling sympathy for these people. They seem to mostly be healthy, well-dressed young men.
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This has always been my observation. If politics was so volatile in my country, I would not turn and run. So many of these young men should make a stand against tyranny...and the free-world would soon come to their aid.We are learning lessons when we open our doors with compassion. Instead of being humbled and appreciative too many go beyond receiving generous handouts to wanting to change the entire culture of the welcoming country. Too many become activists and far too many come with evil intent and play us for suckers. The big tragedy is that UN agencies have a blinkered perspective and too readily condemn countries for becoming circumspect...and this brings about a jaundiced view of the UN.
The UN should go back to its formation-roots, consult with urgency with its member nations and find solutions.
The UN should go back to its formation-roots, consult with urgency with its member nations and find solutions.
1
I'm shocked at your comment. Have you looked at the photos of terrified children choking from tear gas? Fathers carrying their kids and trying to shelter them? Yes many are people who used to have lives like ours, lives now destroyed. I hope for you that you are never faced with such desperation but if you are, that the people you encounter will have compassion.
1
I think we are just seeing young men because only men are going through the boxes that contain donated clothing for men.
The problem is not a European problem. The problem is the nations that cause their people to flee. Nations have a right to borders. If a nation wishes to admit migrants, it can do so, but on its terms. Sounds harsh, but criticism is better aimed at the countries which cause the problems.
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Europe is not alone in the refugee issue. It is a global problem threatening to become a calamity. The initial comment here correctly observes that the problem originates in the governance of the countries being fled, but errs by implying that only those fleeing can solve this problem by returning and taking matters into their own hands. If only it were possible to make it so by merely saying, "Make it so."
This is the approach Donald Trump and the Republican leadership advocate, with force if necessary, for those in the United States without their express permission. It's not working here, and it won't work for our friends in Europe.
Going back to the source of the problem, the intolerable corruption and/or inhumane attitudes of those responsible for this mass, unorganized exodus should be the focus of global response. The wealthy and stable nations of this planet will not remain stable and wealthy if they do not mount a united offensive against every tin-pot dictator and blood-thirsty "religious" cancer spreading across larger and larger swaths of real estate around the globe.
Ironically, those with the most to lose, the 1%, 0.1%. 0.01%... those who have really serious wealth, the most to lose, not just here in the U.S. but worldwide, are the ones with their heads in the sand up to their shoulders.
We are not in the era of wind-powered ships and oxen-pulled wagons, though we are headed back in that time.
Even China must step up to plate. This is a global problem.
This is the approach Donald Trump and the Republican leadership advocate, with force if necessary, for those in the United States without their express permission. It's not working here, and it won't work for our friends in Europe.
Going back to the source of the problem, the intolerable corruption and/or inhumane attitudes of those responsible for this mass, unorganized exodus should be the focus of global response. The wealthy and stable nations of this planet will not remain stable and wealthy if they do not mount a united offensive against every tin-pot dictator and blood-thirsty "religious" cancer spreading across larger and larger swaths of real estate around the globe.
Ironically, those with the most to lose, the 1%, 0.1%. 0.01%... those who have really serious wealth, the most to lose, not just here in the U.S. but worldwide, are the ones with their heads in the sand up to their shoulders.
We are not in the era of wind-powered ships and oxen-pulled wagons, though we are headed back in that time.
Even China must step up to plate. This is a global problem.
15
The 1% won't lose from this. The middle class, as usual, will lose, because we inevitably end up falling off the razor's edge we already live on while our governments deal with it. The poor, as usual, will lose even bigger, as their support services are stretched even further.
Every country in the world has the right to its sovereignty and to decide on its own cultural and national identity. It's not a moral issue when people show up in defiance of local laws and demand resources. Plenty of people in my country, in nearly every country in the world, already suffer greatly.
Every country in the world has the right to its sovereignty and to decide on its own cultural and national identity. It's not a moral issue when people show up in defiance of local laws and demand resources. Plenty of people in my country, in nearly every country in the world, already suffer greatly.
1
@Rebecca: what you said. Who is suffering the massive illegal immigration of poor folks from Mexico and Central America? It sure ain't the super rich (who adore having illegals to use for cheap nannies, housecleaners and landscapers)! It is ordinary working class Americans who have lost their jobs and livelihoods to illegals working under the table for cash (while taking welfare). It is poor African Americans, displaced from entry level jobs and social services by huge masses of illegal hispanics.
If all of the major nations can sit down and come up with an agreement with Iran , I do not understand why the United Nations and the same countries cannot come up with some humanitarian relief, if not a solution to this problem. I did note that when the British reopened their embassy in Iran they had a rep from Shell Oil with them. So I guess that's more important than a bunch of desperate people. Set up refugee camps, identify people, figure out what is going on. It certainly is not a surprise that this is happening. An obvious result of 14 years war in Afghanistan, shock and awe in Iraq, and now the carnage in Syria. I did read today that Hungary has finally decided to do something other than build a fence. So good for them.
7
Well, you can set up refugee camps, like some of the countries do at the EU border, but migrants do not want to stay there, they want to get out and move on to wealthier countries such as Germany or Sweden. There were quite a few riots in refugee camps in Hungary, they want to get out and get on the trains to move on, they are not going to stay in refugee camps.
The countries that take the most refugees, Sweden and Germany, are the ones that didn't create the problem. That was US most of all with its wars in the Near East, followed by England and France, the countries that drew up borders ignoring the demography of the region in quest of influence and oil.
The US, with 1/4 of the population density of Germany, needs to help.
Yes, we can.
The US, with 1/4 of the population density of Germany, needs to help.
Yes, we can.
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No. Absolutely not.
The large number of migrants is already adversely affecting Europe. The countries in Europe have a right to defend their property. If all 1 billion people from Africa migrated to Europe, there would be no longer be a Europe as we know it. Its ability to support itself and innovate and create would be squashed.
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That Poland and Slovakia have clearly stated they will only take Christians should serve as a very clear warning. There will be great cultural unrest due to the large and rapid influx of immigrants into cultures vastly different from which they came. Adjustments needed to assimilate will take a great deal,of time and education. Europe, you will be torn apart on multiple fronts if you do not get control of this situation.
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A problem Americans can sympathisize with given an identical issue ithe our southern border. Everyone understands the motivation for a better life in the US, but the vaue proposition has produced widely polarized angst. At the end of the day it becomes practical: who is going to pay for the flood of people and their basic needs? From tis side of the ocean, we can only watch in sympathy. As non stake holders, it doesn't seem right to hurl criticism.
57
Particularly given the popularity of Donald Trump's "Great Wall" solution. It ill behooves us to piously criticize European treatment of migrants given the way a large proportion of the US electorate wants to treat them.
2
Here you are mistaken buddy. Almost all Latin American who cross into USA come to work, not to get asylum or welfare. In fact most immigrants work harder than the average American citizens who are used to have it easy here.
10
oh yes, the victory of what is "practical" for the privileged white nobility of the global, over the human "rights" of the second class non-eurpoean descendants from previously colonized and socially, economically, culturally dismantled "nations", made arbitrarily based on the whims and needs of the white man, pillaged for centuries and more recently been the victims of war-mongering and bullying by the Great White Powers of the West. Do you "sympathisize", Mr. Newton? Or do you consider yourself a "non stake holder" in the global calamity that affects the majority of humans on this planet?
And this time they are not even going to the trouble of building a large wooden horse.
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That would be ancient Greeks invading Troy (which is in Turkey). So you've got it horse's butt backwards.
Why is this framed as an EU problem rather than a problem of the nations hemorhaging people? It is Europe's responsibility to care for all of the world's destitute?
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Yup. It's not exactly like Europe created the mess.
And where is the UN? Ban Ki-Moon needs replacing now, can't wait until end of 2016 to get rid of him.
And where is the UN? Ban Ki-Moon needs replacing now, can't wait until end of 2016 to get rid of him.
15
It is an EU problem because they are nations of haven countries. Just like the US has haven states. They are letting them in like they are long lost brothers. And just like the US, the citizens are not being listened to.
my friends, the big elephant in the room is all this people are not Christian, over 300.000 people died from Syria, if we look all these pictures as we see they are dark color and they are Muslim, nobody wants them , so till western world come to the table and will say , if you are not white and not christian you are a second class person, your life is not worth the safe, we can find all this reasons and excuses but it is what it is, l am a Muslim and l say my religion in deep trouble if they do not do fast and big changes it is doom
How about your country, US, taking more refugees. This is not only Europe's problem but also the world.
22
what is Canada's response?
29
We already have about 11 million illegal immigrants, plus take around 50,000 asylum seekers a year, plus thousands more on various other legal immigration provisions. Europe is squawking about numbers far lower than we have been taking, legally and illegally, for decades. What's Canada doing?
30
Yea, sure we are the primary ones fighting the war that is displacing these people. Why not take in more people as well. Does that mean South and Central American refugees should seek asylum in the EU. It's a world issue right? Guess Canadian just get to sit back and enjoy the show?
9
I don't understand this. I have on the highest, most educated authority that Europe is better than the U.S.
12
They are better, just ask our left and the elected Kings and Queens from all of the EU nations
Europe is better than the U.S. in terms of their social safety net, but not in terms of their immigration policy.
While there is obviously no gender requirement to refugee/asylum status, we all -- I guess -- colloquially relate such a distinction more to women and children. Not to muddy the water of the complexity of this issue, but I'm genuinely curious:
Does anybody have any objective demographic data of asylum seekers? It's purely anecdotal observation on my behalf, but from what I've noticed, the overwhelming majority appear to be reasonably well-nourished fighting aged males.
For example in the recent Austrian tragedy, of the 71 victims, only 8 were women and 4 children. The remaining 59 were male. Having been raised in a household and society that cherished the "women, children first" mentality, I find this strikingly odd and I imagine it goes some way to explaining the skepticism that some Europeans have about the nature of some of the arrivals.
Does anybody have any objective demographic data of asylum seekers? It's purely anecdotal observation on my behalf, but from what I've noticed, the overwhelming majority appear to be reasonably well-nourished fighting aged males.
For example in the recent Austrian tragedy, of the 71 victims, only 8 were women and 4 children. The remaining 59 were male. Having been raised in a household and society that cherished the "women, children first" mentality, I find this strikingly odd and I imagine it goes some way to explaining the skepticism that some Europeans have about the nature of some of the arrivals.
173
There is no such thing as women being "cherished" in any Muslim majority country - it's just the opposite. Dogs get more respect than women. I feel for the European countries that are being burdened with these relics from the seventh century.
36
Looks like it might be a rough trip for women and children.
The story of the Trojan horse comes to mind.
4
Very odd. There is absolutely no mention of America's resposibility in all this. America has been at war in the middle east for 12 or 13 years, invading one country after another. They have created millions of refugees all by themselves while being insulated by the problems they have created by the Atlantic ocean. All of the burden falls on The EU and neighbouring countries with no mention at al of American help, only critisicm and questions about Europe's response. America should spend half the money they spend on the military on the refugee problem. Or is the military the problem???
117
Hmmm, have you noticed that we have an issue/problem at our southern border? As I asked another poster from Canada, what is Canada doing to help? Not trying to be antagonistic, but, what steps is Canada taking to help?
15
Remind me: did Canada, or NATO, of which Canada is a member, assist us in any of this insanity?
6
The US sends BILLIONS of dollars, in aid, to most of thee countries. I'd bet we spend more on them than we do on ourselves.
18
Once the migrants realize its more dangerous to emigrate, maybe they will start solving their countries problems themselves
110
The number's don't bear that out: 2,500 people have died during the year, 100,000 came looking for refuge in one month. They will keep coming. And, the EU leadership has lost valuable time and resources by staying on vacation while under a historical onslaught of asylum-seekers.
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The totality of the deaths may look large, but that's a 97.5% success rate.
2
If we hadn't sent, for decades and decades, the CIA, US military, money for bombs that terrorists could build, money to hold up dictators, etc., they could maybe solve their problems themselves. It's too late. We are all implicated. It's much more complex than you think.
4