This scaring little kids with the "La Migra" boogy-man nonsense has got to stop.
7
The other day my 12 year old godson, whose parents are from Uruguay and Peru, told me that if Trump is elected, "he will make all the Mexicans leave." He looked quite scared. I told him Trump will never be elected, and that he didn't have to be afraid. Trump is beneath contempt.
13
Mr. Trump is accomplishing what Simon Bolivar couldn't. Uniting all Latinos in common cause!
I, for one, cannot wait to go vote in the Presidential elections.
I, for one, cannot wait to go vote in the Presidential elections.
22
Me too. I just canceled out your vote.
23
And now we hear that Trump, and some other Republican candidates want to amend the Constitution to remove birthright citizenship (and who knows what else of the Civil War amendments). He talks about mass deportations. The Final Solution at one point was about mass deportations. We know how that ended. Trump is dangerous.
21
Mr. Tobar is a world-class journalist, respected and admired. It is too bad that he chose to ignore the teaching opportunity that exists for parents/journalists to use Mr. Trump's positions to explain the dynamics of political campaigning to children and adult Latinos. Instead, he engaged in a subjective and inflammatory comparison of The Donald to certain politicians in the Weimar Republic (I wonder which politician exactly he had in mind), almost making it feel like this comparison was the true objective of his article.
"But it’s The Donald who is on the airwaves the most these days. His unapologetic xenophobia has helped to push his presidential campaign to the top of the fractured Republican field. Like certain politicians in the Weimar Republic, he’s found a largely defenseless group to pick on — who also happen to be reviled by a bankable minority of the electorate."
"But it’s The Donald who is on the airwaves the most these days. His unapologetic xenophobia has helped to push his presidential campaign to the top of the fractured Republican field. Like certain politicians in the Weimar Republic, he’s found a largely defenseless group to pick on — who also happen to be reviled by a bankable minority of the electorate."
4
If we forcibly deport our illegal aliens, there may be enough of them to destabilize the countries we send them back to. Mexico could wind up with a right-wing dictatorship, a left-wing dictatorship, a civil war, or a failed government. We might get no cooperation in our war against drugs instead of incomplete and unreliable cooperation. We might get floods of political refugees and send them back to persecution, imprisonment or death. We could wind up with a giant Venezuela or Somalia or El Salvador on our southern border, and we might have to occupy the country (again) and wind up with an Iraq situation where we leave at our peril.
2
If we forcibly deport our illegals, they may destabilize the countries we return them to.
And how exactly is that America's problem?
Hint: It isn't.
And how exactly is that America's problem?
Hint: It isn't.
23
I'm afraid that beating Trump with a stick will just release more bile.
6
Mr Trump perfectly represents the view of a significant portion of the Republican constituency. His "telling it like it is" is nothing more than his clearly stating the message that the GOP has been delivering for many years.
26
The Volokh Conspiracy blog within the Washington Post has an interesting post by a law prof on the unnecessary nature of border controls.
Mexicans, Nahuatl's, Apaches, Sinaguas, and probably extra-terrestrials were freely crossing what we call "la frontera" for millennia before the paranoid rebels who founded Texas decided that what we really really needed was a big big wall to protect us from "those folks" -- who are in reality more "us" than ourselves.
Mexicans, Nahuatl's, Apaches, Sinaguas, and probably extra-terrestrials were freely crossing what we call "la frontera" for millennia before the paranoid rebels who founded Texas decided that what we really really needed was a big big wall to protect us from "those folks" -- who are in reality more "us" than ourselves.
3
Why are Latino children afraid of a rich, white, privileged kid who had everything handled to him on a gold plate? Break it down.
6
And Trump thinks he's going to win the Latino vote? Call me skeptical.
6
Bobby Jindal is an ANCHOR baby!! When will we deport him?
How many children are born to immigrants, whether legally here or not, who would not be considered citizens by Trump's and other republicans' contention. My father was born to legal, (yet I have no substantiated documentation) Canadian immigrants. However his parents were not citizens when he was born. Does this now make my father a non citizen? Does it make me one as well? None of us ever applied for citizenship. My husband's parents were the children of immigrants born in the USA before their parents became naturalized citizens. Were his grandparents here legally? Who knows. Yet under Trump's ludicrous proposals my husbands parents, though BORN here, would not be citizens?!! Where do we draw the line? On the color of your skin or your country of origin? Are they just not European enough?
How many children are born to immigrants, whether legally here or not, who would not be considered citizens by Trump's and other republicans' contention. My father was born to legal, (yet I have no substantiated documentation) Canadian immigrants. However his parents were not citizens when he was born. Does this now make my father a non citizen? Does it make me one as well? None of us ever applied for citizenship. My husband's parents were the children of immigrants born in the USA before their parents became naturalized citizens. Were his grandparents here legally? Who knows. Yet under Trump's ludicrous proposals my husbands parents, though BORN here, would not be citizens?!! Where do we draw the line? On the color of your skin or your country of origin? Are they just not European enough?
21
I'm going to move into your house in the middle of the night, without asking permission and stay as long as I want. Who cares that you have "papers" that I don't have!?
23
Trump would is for outsourcing -- plain and simple.
2
Thank You, Mr. Tobar, for the Lucid Article and your personal perception. I am pained by Trump's "Trumpetting". I'm a 78 year old with Finnish, Irish, English, Scotch, and French heritage. My Latino connection was as a Lutheran pastor in Ohio....where I served two congregations where many Migrant Workers were
In residence during the Growing Season. I hope for further Intelligent interchange on the Immigration Issue....but do not expect much depth from the Republicans.
In residence during the Growing Season. I hope for further Intelligent interchange on the Immigration Issue....but do not expect much depth from the Republicans.
13
The sad truth is that Republicans vote, Democrats only think about it.
8
Former Mexican ambassador said the other day that there are 30 MILLION illegals in America. So that 11 million number is bogus.
A nation without borders is no longer a nation. The politicians since 1965 have wanted cheap votes, supermajorities for Dems. The GOP is bought and paid for by the big corporations who want cheap labor. 40% of the illegals here have overstayed their visas. So they have broken the law twice, once in the country, once here.
I'm sorry, but illegals and children of illegals will just have to change their country of origin. Make it more like America.
BTW: Read the Mexican constitution. They jail their illegals immediately. No due process, no civil rights.
A nation without borders is no longer a nation. The politicians since 1965 have wanted cheap votes, supermajorities for Dems. The GOP is bought and paid for by the big corporations who want cheap labor. 40% of the illegals here have overstayed their visas. So they have broken the law twice, once in the country, once here.
I'm sorry, but illegals and children of illegals will just have to change their country of origin. Make it more like America.
BTW: Read the Mexican constitution. They jail their illegals immediately. No due process, no civil rights.
24
I'm Latino, and I welcome his attacks. Every time the right wing attacks Latinos, it just makes the progressive movement stronger. Keep it up GOP, brown people will bring you down.
20
Children often bear the sad even unfair consequences of their parents' wrongdoing.
10
Reading so many heartless comments here makes me realize how far this anti-undocumented people thing has gone. Cruelty to children--America, what has hurt you so? The U.S. is maybe exceptional, yes, in its thoughtless cruelty.
13
To those posters who think this is about the question of legal and illegal immigration. It is not. Many economists argue that immigration is a net gain economically in the long term; fewer fear it suppresses wages for low-skilled people already living in the US. Neihter you or I can prove it one way of the other though I think far more economists think in the case of the US it is to everyone's benefit. But the vile things he has said about 'Mexicans' (I presume in his divine ignorance he means Hispanics but the synecdoche is a mark of his contempt and his age) are exactly as they sound; they are not arguments at all; and they are not based on facts or even possibilities. You can plug in any other group you like for this dehumanizing, scattershot hatred in other places and other times (Jews, Blacks, Rumanians, Tutsis). Those of you who are going along with the 'serious problem' rhetoric are putting yourselves in bed with the clueless petit-bourgeoisie of Dreyfusard and FN France, Weimar Germany, skinheads, and Jim Crow. This is a manufactured crisis to keep the Republican electorate fired up and maybe bag some Reagan Democrats. Do not be fooled again.
48
I hear the ghosts of the native peoples muttering in disbelief.
People! Ask - "Why were the borders so porous to allow millions to sneak(?) into this country?"
People! Ask - "Why were the borders so porous to allow millions to sneak(?) into this country?"
6
And this land is ours because we sent in soldiers to kill your great-great-grandfathers who were defending their homes against an invading army in the Mexican-American War.
4
Go back several thousand years, and you could argue that every inch of dry land on planet earth (and quite a bit of water) once was owned, ruled, or controlled by a people who are not the ones there today. Mexico lost the south west region of North America just as they won it...through the act of war.
11
An awful lot of writing without mentioning the truth of the matter...adults making a conscious decision to ignore the immigration law of a foreign nation, and angry at others for the consequence of their foolish behavior. Don't complain about the Boogeyman if you're the one who caused him to appear in the first place.
24
Another wonderful column from Hector Tobar!
All over the world desperately poor people try to better their lives, often by crossing a border without papers. In other words, this is not just an American issue. To deal with the issue adequately requires humanity, dispassion, and respect for the views of others, all qualities which are the obverse of what Mr. Trump brings to the conversation. The idea that you can deport 11 million people, along with family members who are citizens is preposterous on the face of it.
Sadly, another Republican is pandering to the worst, most selfish, most uncompassionate portions of the human soul.
All over the world desperately poor people try to better their lives, often by crossing a border without papers. In other words, this is not just an American issue. To deal with the issue adequately requires humanity, dispassion, and respect for the views of others, all qualities which are the obverse of what Mr. Trump brings to the conversation. The idea that you can deport 11 million people, along with family members who are citizens is preposterous on the face of it.
Sadly, another Republican is pandering to the worst, most selfish, most uncompassionate portions of the human soul.
10
E- Verify. No job=No money=No reason to be here. There are billions of poor people around the globe, allowing mass violation of other nations immigration law does nothing to solve the problem. It simply creates an even worse problem for the domestic poor of the host country.
20
Donald Trump has been a self-parody for decades. The fact that anyone in the Republican party actually takes him seriously is more of a sad commentary on the Republican party's lack of truly intelligent candidates than on Donald himself.
5
There must be a serious conflict between the anti-immigration and second amendment advocates in the Republican party.
The conflict arises because the "anti-immigrationists" keep shooting themselves in the foot and the "guns rightists" want no exception to the
second ammendment.
The conflict arises because the "anti-immigrationists" keep shooting themselves in the foot and the "guns rightists" want no exception to the
second ammendment.
3
We're constantly reminded that Hispanics will oppose any GOP politician who threatens to do anything common-sense, such as closing the U.S. border to illegal immigration.
That's because Hispanics favor open borders so as many Hispanics as possible can pour across our borders and effectively destroy America, or at least the America founded in 1776. In other words, Hispanics are racists. They're putting their race ahead of the country. They're Hispanics first, and American's second. That's why they abhor any Republican who's tough in illegal immigration.
That's because Hispanics favor open borders so as many Hispanics as possible can pour across our borders and effectively destroy America, or at least the America founded in 1776. In other words, Hispanics are racists. They're putting their race ahead of the country. They're Hispanics first, and American's second. That's why they abhor any Republican who's tough in illegal immigration.
17
Nothing personifies better the fact that the GOP is nothing more than a bunch of white people desperately afraid of black and brown people than the rise of Trump. The fact he's a thrice married adulter just shows how phony the GOP's godliness and piety really is. At its core, the GOP is hate, nastiness, greed, and bigotry. Trump is the perfect vessel for the party.
7
Jack's letter right above flat out states it.
Heck, you don't have to be small and Latino to be scared of The Donald. He gives me nightmares too! I don't understand why we don't send out the modern day equivalent of the Chinese New Year firecrackers and dragons to flesh out and destroy all monsters and evil lurking in dark corners. That may mean, though, that there will be no GOP candidate come September 2016 and democratic ones cut down to size.
1
Trump is talking about illegal aliens. Illegals are a scourge on America's legal resident alien ("Green Card") Hispanics and Hispanic citizens. Soon, hopefully, Hispanic leaders in the USA will wake up to this. They need to take note of the feelings expressed by a Hispanic speaker and an African American speaker excoriating the Huntington Park city council for appointing two illegal aliens to city commissions.
17
The produce, meat packing and construction industries would collapse without Latino labor.
5
As I understand it, US citizens can not buy property in Mexico without going through third parties with it labyrinthine rules regarding foreign ownership of private property. Mexico is by no means hospital to legal or illegal immigrants itself. I am not a fan of the Donald's but he is right that a country has a right to protect you its borders or that a country has a right to make laws regarding real property ownership just as Mexico does no matter whether certain people think those laws or policies unfair.
14
Since I am not running for anything, it might be helpful to talk straight to the good folks, many of whom are commenting here, about why they are being masterfully manipulated by Trump.
It is the oldest political trick in the world to scapegoat some group for the problems in a society. Here Mr. Trump scapegoats the Mexicans. As a grandson whose grandmother was murdered by the Nazis, I can tell you it is a vicious and dangerous business to scapegoat people rather than address the real issues facing us.
So let's get down to it: is deporting those who do not have the proper papers going to " make America great again?"
Think about it for a moment.
The undocumented have been employed by Americans who know full well what they are doing, whether it is farm labor or cleaning houses. These Americans are willing to break the law to save money on cheap labor. Many are very wealthy, like Mr. Trump. ( I'll eat my hat if undocumented workers weren't used to build his hotels and apartments!)
So here is the scoop: Trump and the rest of the immigration scaremongers are using the oldest trick in the world to scare you. Tell them you will not be scared.
By all means, clean up the immigration mess by reforming and enforcing the law.
But tell Trump and the rest that scapegoating will not work. We are on to to your scam, Mr. Trump and we want the children to sleep well at night.
It is the oldest political trick in the world to scapegoat some group for the problems in a society. Here Mr. Trump scapegoats the Mexicans. As a grandson whose grandmother was murdered by the Nazis, I can tell you it is a vicious and dangerous business to scapegoat people rather than address the real issues facing us.
So let's get down to it: is deporting those who do not have the proper papers going to " make America great again?"
Think about it for a moment.
The undocumented have been employed by Americans who know full well what they are doing, whether it is farm labor or cleaning houses. These Americans are willing to break the law to save money on cheap labor. Many are very wealthy, like Mr. Trump. ( I'll eat my hat if undocumented workers weren't used to build his hotels and apartments!)
So here is the scoop: Trump and the rest of the immigration scaremongers are using the oldest trick in the world to scare you. Tell them you will not be scared.
By all means, clean up the immigration mess by reforming and enforcing the law.
But tell Trump and the rest that scapegoating will not work. We are on to to your scam, Mr. Trump and we want the children to sleep well at night.
10
I find myself wanting to bang my head against the wall every time this issue is written about in the NYT. By now it should be more than obvious that a very large number of Americans are fed up and angry about the issue of illegal immigration. The NYT is probably the most liberal newspaper in the US. But, every time illegal immigration is raised, the negative comments overwhelm the positives. A livable wage, the abandoning of the African American population, especially in the inner-cities, unemployment of lower-skilled workers, the huge cost in schools, the LEGAL immigrants that followed the law, the gang wars, the list goes on and on and on. It is not only Republicans that are fed up. Why? The key word again is ILLEGAL. This is an issue that has caused a great deal of anger that has only grown because there has been no real action taken to address it for decades. The Democrats and their supporters fail to see how important this has been become. A lot of voters here in NC a that have voted for them in the past did not show up in the last election because they felt that illegal immigrants were receiving more attention than anything else by President Obama. They need to take a large step back and really pay attention or it could cost them the next election. And, I write this as a life-long liberal. The key word again, no matter how they want to ignore it is: illegal.
19
Mr. Tobar appears to be applying a different kind of sweeping generalization concerning all latinos, including US citizens, from the sweeping generalization The Donald is applying only to undocumented immigrants.
14
if they're scared of Trump and the rest of his lunatic nativist cronies and cohorts, all they have to do is spend the next 15 months walking up and down the streets and making sure that every one of their older brothers and sisters, their aunts, uncles, mothers, and fathers, and all their neighbors who are eligible to vote --- register and vote for the Democratic Party nominee for president and for Democratic Senators and Representatives
We live in a democracy - and in a democracy, the best way to act is through the ballot
We live in a democracy - and in a democracy, the best way to act is through the ballot
5
What is ultimately better for Latinos, Mr Tobar? A glut of unskilled labor depressing wages, raising taxes, increasing poverty, crowding schools and hospitals? Or a tight labor market with rising wages and decreasing poverty? Mr. Tobar is an ethnic chauvinist who wants open borders regardless of the negative results for the American people. Anyone who asks "what is good for Latinos" is playing racial identity politics. Immigration is not a brown right. We have the right to limit who enters on the basis of what is good for all of the nation.
19
It's pretty funny to see a Republican reversal on this issue. They have been fully pro- illegal immigration forever. This has fueled the California economy for decades. It was Reagan who granted amnesty! I think the law is the law. Donald is right. Change it or follow it.
4
Mexican parents would refuse to take their children with them if they were to return to where they belong?
What kind of parents would do that? Who are they expecting will care for their offspring?
What kind of parents would do that? Who are they expecting will care for their offspring?
16
Some day in the far distant future, someone will write a long-form piece on why America became so viciously and angrily racist in the early 21st Century. The scholarly piece will no doubt catalog the #Blacklivesmatter phenomenon, and the incongruous scapegoating of brown skinnned immigrants (Mexicans and Central Americans) at time when illegal immigration is down, deportations are up, and the economy is improving. Perhaps the scholars writing this piece will note the election of an African American as President as the catalyst which awakened the racist vitriol always present in the American psyche. Perhaps no one will be around left to write it.
7
Stopping illegal immigration, by walls, arrests, deportations and imprisonment is a winning issue for the Republican Party. The only "Latinos" that will vote for the Democratic Party candidates are the ones who already rely on welfare and other government transfer payments. Legal immigrants, and Hispanics of national backgrounds other than Mexican, are a natural Republican constituency.
11
If you think our agricultural growers & packers are concerned about illegal immigration, you're sadly mistaken. Food prices would soar into the stratosphere if Latinos ceased to harvest & process our food.
In a great many areas of the country the hospitality industry would collapse without their presence. I recently dined in a Basque restaurant. The entire staff with the exception of the owner were Mexican.
From construction to landscaping, Latinos are omnipresent. Want to reroof your home? Entire crews are Latino. People make money & save money by their presence. Are they stressing the social services of the country? Much, much less than they're contributing.
In a great many areas of the country the hospitality industry would collapse without their presence. I recently dined in a Basque restaurant. The entire staff with the exception of the owner were Mexican.
From construction to landscaping, Latinos are omnipresent. Want to reroof your home? Entire crews are Latino. People make money & save money by their presence. Are they stressing the social services of the country? Much, much less than they're contributing.
5
Thoughout all of history, especially our own American history, from the first settlers stepping ashore on Plymouth Rock to our current images of frightened Hispaniac, Asian, African and Slavic refugees, huddled in shipping containers and crossing rivers and desert land, no one has ever left their home lands of origins because things were so good back home. My own ancestors left Ireland because they were starving to death. Fortunately at that time they only had to prove that they didn't have TB or conjuntivitis. I don't know at what point they became full fledged voting citizens or if I am just a 5th generation anchor baby. I have a grandchild who is an "anchor baby" of an Iraeli woman who overstayed her student visa and is happily married to my son. Would the Republican candidates have my grandchild and his mother deported? I am simply overwhelmed by the pure malice and selfish greed of the statements of many of the current candidates and nothing but scorn for the rest who do not stand up and say this is not what our country is about. They are as guilty by their silence as those who spew this filth.
10
I think if the Republicans win the election in 2016, whoever the candidate may be, we will see major immigration reform in this country. Like it or not the 14th Admendment will be challenged in court. LIke it or not there will be a major push by the conservative base in this country plus the poor whites and the poor Africian Americans communities to remove as many men and women in this country that have no legal standing to be in this country. Like it or not these Americans would like the opportunity for the jobs now being held by those persons who have no legal standing to be in this country.
21
Don't you dare talk about the 14th amendment when the 2nd cannot be touched!
3
Latino children are not the only ones who fear Trump. Many Americans fear that the unbridled expressions of ethnic disdain infect so many other citizens that Trump and the Republican Party could potentially make these sentiments part of the party's platform! These attitudes already are implicit there but Trump and his echoes, like Walker, make them concrete.
22
The problem thoughtful people have with the anti-Mexican attacks on illegal immigration made by Donald Trump is that they are racist, and not because they are for illegal immigration. This is what the pro-Trump commentators can't seem to get or it is a quality they share. Illegal immigration is a problem, nonetheless , I admire people who take such risks to build a better life. The children who endured so much to walk across Mexico to steal into Texas, for example, are the rugged individuals we need to build our country. The racists who oppose them, we have enough of.
32
I said this before and I'll say it again: Illegal immigrants' financial drain is nothing compared to the drain corporations and oligarchs cause by hiding their profits off-shore to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. They are allowed to hide their wealth gained on the backs of Americans!
To pounce on the poor immigrant children who may, just may, turn into patriots and pay taxes is myopic, mean spirited and foolish, a trait Americans developed by allowing the Republican Party to hold sway over so many of us, yet give full license to some "citizens" (corporations) to selfishly exploit everyone else.
I'm not saying to open borders completely or allow all illegals to stay, but turn the problem around intelligently, not throw tantrums, spew inchoate, blind hatred and show how foolish we are as a people, unable to reason. We must show class by trumping Trump, who articulates what so many deluded people feel.
How twisted this country has become.
To pounce on the poor immigrant children who may, just may, turn into patriots and pay taxes is myopic, mean spirited and foolish, a trait Americans developed by allowing the Republican Party to hold sway over so many of us, yet give full license to some "citizens" (corporations) to selfishly exploit everyone else.
I'm not saying to open borders completely or allow all illegals to stay, but turn the problem around intelligently, not throw tantrums, spew inchoate, blind hatred and show how foolish we are as a people, unable to reason. We must show class by trumping Trump, who articulates what so many deluded people feel.
How twisted this country has become.
11
In 1902 Woodrow Wilson wrote that contemporary immigration consists of "multitudes of men of the lowest class from the south of Italy, and men of the meaner sort out of Hungary and Poland, men out of the ranks where there was neither skill nor energy nor any initiative of quick intelligence; and they came in numbers which increased from year to year, as if the countries of the south of Europe were disburdening themselves of the more sordid and hapless elements of their population."
In fairness, Wilson grew, changed his outlook and, by 1917, vetoed the racist Immigration Act.
The problem today is that Donald Trump does not have the background, basic education, mental capacity and flexibility to evolve into a genuine leader who can propose adult solutions. Instead we have Huey Long, Jerry Rubin and Stokely Carmichael all rolled into one, even with outrageous hair styles.
In fairness, Wilson grew, changed his outlook and, by 1917, vetoed the racist Immigration Act.
The problem today is that Donald Trump does not have the background, basic education, mental capacity and flexibility to evolve into a genuine leader who can propose adult solutions. Instead we have Huey Long, Jerry Rubin and Stokely Carmichael all rolled into one, even with outrageous hair styles.
6
Why this fixation with Latinos? This country is overrun with illegal aliens from every where on this planet. All of these illegals have broken the laws of this nation as have those who employ them. The focus needs to be taken off of the ethnic background of these illegals and placed on the fact that being here, working here, receiving public benefits is just plain wrong and against the laws of this country. Those individuals here in violation of our laws, do not deserve any sort of deference to their wrongful presence to include citizenship for children born to them here during their unlawful presence. It is a well established legal principle that one may not receive a positive benefit from illegal activity. The confiscation of drug profits is a perfect example of ill gotten gains denied to the criminal, should apply to those born here due to the illegal presence of their parents in this nation. Stop fanning the flames of ethnic discord with the false flag of bigotry towards those illegally present in America. We don't need a set of new laws to be ignored when the current laws aren't or haven't been enforced.
12
The sad threads from those commenters who gaze the border with their own navel, is their unbridled hatred for other human beings in "their" nation, including brown children breathing their fear. Immigration laws are an excuse to lock, deport, censor, deny, curse "them" all; scour them with disgust, and criminalize their friends. The illegals are the new race to hate; and, now, a highly profitable media and political sport. Trump knows what sells.
4
Try being a US immigrant in many Latin American countries, unless you're well off, it ain't pleasant: you will face a great deal of discrimination, no bi-lingual education, etc. and a generally ignorant anti-American xenophobia. Hispanic immigrants to the US have it much better and many exude an undeserved sense of privilege for things they would not receive in their home countries.
5
if we keep rewarding illegal behavior we will get more of it, and have less public tax money to support our own poor and needy people. Its not that the people are all bad, it is that they did something illegal, and if we don't do something about the illegal part we will conttinue to get hit with demands and needs from people who are not supposed to be here in the first place. every country on earth controls it's borders for good reason, and there is nothing wrong or mean about it.
11
The GOP should certainly do all it can to repeal the 14th Amendment. That effort and the blatant racism behind it will guarantee national electoral losses for them for a generation and perhaps the the US can roll back some of the destruction they have caused over the last forty years.
5
Yeah, I remember hearing stuff like that before the Republicans won the Senate.
1
Last one in close the door. I imagine most Americans posting here with holier than thou attitudes don't know in detail the history of how their family arrived in the United States. I know I don't. So sure, slam the door in the face of others whose deeds or misdeeds, tremendous efforts and great contributions or the opposite you know little about. If you want to build a little empathy, go online and listen to This American Life's recent show on Abdi and the Golden Ticket. And grow a pair. Of empathetic eyes and ears and sides to your heart. Without immigrants, legal or not, this country would be nowhere people sought to be, but instead the withered shell of what it could have been.
5
Undocumented aliens mean well but like all of us they need to be held accountable for their transgressions. If that "scares" them then so be it.
12
Again, using children to get away with exploitation of the American system. Again, another article that clumps "Hispanics" into a homogeneous group and ignores the diversity and difference of individuals from different backgrounds and countries that only share a common language. Of all the Hispanics, Mexican culture is the most different from Hispanics of other countries. Moreover, Hispanics are not all uneducated and poor. Hence, not all Hispanics are afraid of Trump nor do they support him. You want to immigrate to this country? Do it legally instead of thinking that it is your right to demand and force acceptance. And respect children instead of using them as a shield against the bullet.
27
Once again, illegal immigration, legal immigration and Latinos are put into the same status and according to this article share the same interests and fears.
As long as the writer tells lies like this, you get a "story" that glorifies the illegal immigrant and demonizes anyone willing to call them out for being so.
People aren't that stupid, and are no longer willing to bow to a label of racist, or anti-immigrant or even anti-Latino no matter how hard Mr. Tobar would like that to be, writing his tales of nightmares.
Unlike his fiction, our country has a very real nightmare - that of law being broken by millions, of human and real dollar costs that are being ignored, and of the diminishing value of citizenship of the greatest country in the world.
NYT - please stop publishing these one-sided articles if you don't want to publish the other side. Readers get the feeling the editors are getting desperate to validate their position on pro-illegal immigration, at any cost, including that of the respect of the paper for it's balanced news and analysis.
As long as the writer tells lies like this, you get a "story" that glorifies the illegal immigrant and demonizes anyone willing to call them out for being so.
People aren't that stupid, and are no longer willing to bow to a label of racist, or anti-immigrant or even anti-Latino no matter how hard Mr. Tobar would like that to be, writing his tales of nightmares.
Unlike his fiction, our country has a very real nightmare - that of law being broken by millions, of human and real dollar costs that are being ignored, and of the diminishing value of citizenship of the greatest country in the world.
NYT - please stop publishing these one-sided articles if you don't want to publish the other side. Readers get the feeling the editors are getting desperate to validate their position on pro-illegal immigration, at any cost, including that of the respect of the paper for it's balanced news and analysis.
18
What does this PC code word "immigrant" mean? Perhaps we should use the more accurate term alien for those individuals who have entered the US illegally.
14
Most "immigrants" who come to this country start out as illegals..Thru a sponsor, marriage, family ties, corporate need, outright fraud, amnesty they become legal.
America is a great country but nobody wants to want 20 yrs to come here to work. That is how long it takes to get here legally.
America is a great country but nobody wants to want 20 yrs to come here to work. That is how long it takes to get here legally.
2
I think people should obey laws and enter the U.S. Legally, but it is difficult to to completely blame people who are trying to make a better life. The problem with Trump is he is attacking the Mexicans and insulting them as if they are all bad people, which is unfair. The real way to reduce illegal immigration is to severely punish employers with large fines.
30
Trumps comments and proposals about eliminating birthright citizenship and deporting 11 million non-documented immigrants is just so much hot air, but it is serious for the most vulnerable Latino and Chicano residents in California and their relatives. How many actual Hispanic citizens are going to vote Republican as a result of this hateful, vengeful blather. Mr. Trump is ruining not only his own candidacy but also that of all other GOP contenders.
5
One NYT Op-Ed article, 200 readers' comments and no mention of prosecuting employers who hire undocumented workers, which is the main reason for illegals entering this country.
When are we going to ditch political correctness with respect to this? When are we going to stop tippy toeing around lest we offend Republican employers who break the law?
When are we going to ditch political correctness with respect to this? When are we going to stop tippy toeing around lest we offend Republican employers who break the law?
10
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous op-ed piece that I have ever read in The New York Times.
It's the kind of writing that will just elevate Donald Trump even higher.
And stop using children in such a smarmy manner.
Good grief.
It's the kind of writing that will just elevate Donald Trump even higher.
And stop using children in such a smarmy manner.
Good grief.
39
Haters like Tobar are going to teach their children to hate and fear, and blme Trump. Why not teach them to obey the law and get ready for a boom in the communidad once the freeloaders are flushed?
10
Because Mr Trump would like to deport the children as well.
2
I was frustrated at Trump's obvious fear-mongering regarding our southern border but I was willing to forgive this foible if he made sense on other important issues facing America.
But I also learned today about Rosie O'Donnell's daughter. That is something I had never known...but Donald Trump had to know. I mean he just had to know because this wasn't the first time he had denigrated O'Donnell.
His constant berating of Rosie O'Donnell is unforgivable. It shows a total lack of class, lack of empathy and should be an absolute disqualifier for him in any public office, much less the presidency of the United States.
I will take any Latino over the overwrought bigot named Donald Trump whose only criteria for excellence seems to be some arcane number system he has assigned to women.
But I also learned today about Rosie O'Donnell's daughter. That is something I had never known...but Donald Trump had to know. I mean he just had to know because this wasn't the first time he had denigrated O'Donnell.
His constant berating of Rosie O'Donnell is unforgivable. It shows a total lack of class, lack of empathy and should be an absolute disqualifier for him in any public office, much less the presidency of the United States.
I will take any Latino over the overwrought bigot named Donald Trump whose only criteria for excellence seems to be some arcane number system he has assigned to women.
2
First class demagogs are usually culled from the extreme left or right...ie the Al Sharptons on the left or the Rush Limbaughs on the right.
Trump is an uncommon example of a moderate (his history shows it despite what he says today)..of a first class demagog in the middle.
Trump is an uncommon example of a moderate (his history shows it despite what he says today)..of a first class demagog in the middle.
2
We Americans are the most thankless people in the world. We want cheap fruit, vegetables, milk, cheese, etc. delivered to our tables. While enjoying this bounty, we get up from our tables and cheer on the Donald (and others) while he excoriates those who feed us. Yes, blame the Mexicans, those dastardly people who have the temerity to come to our country and demand that we give them jobs. Those poor cowering farmers who are forced to employ those lazy Mexicans. What lost your job in the coal fields, factory move out of town, no jobs to be found? Yet, I don’t see too many of you out here willing to take a job milking cows for 12 hours a day, sorting potatoes from 6:00 am to 12:00 midnight, picking fruit, moving irrigation pipe, etc. Can’t afford to come or make any effort take one of those “illegals” backbreaking jobs? Guess what, Juan did, he left his home, and many times his family in Michoacan, Morelios, Guanajuato, Mexico, and by walking, or whatever means possible he’s able to travel thousands of miles to work and provide us with the staples of life and then receive the abuse of self-serving politicians as his reward. We are all complicit in this scheme, and like that itinerant preacher once said, “he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” Shame on us.
63
If these people are legal American citizens, they have nothing to be afraid of. If they are illegal, they are felons and parasites and should rightly fear for taking our jobs and commandeering our resources. I am a legal immigrant and I applaud Trump. Does a post such as this conform to the NYT political correctness ideology?
15
"Everyone should be treated equally"?, "put himself in my shoes?", "people should be seen as individuals"? - but what happens when they turn to religion? Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists collectively condemned and sent to hell? Where did all those nice thoughts go? Oh wait, they stopped being a minority being discriminated, as soon as they are the majority, the tune changes
1
How touching, telling the stories about what scares little kids in the Latino community. How about if I tell you a story about my own son, who was viciously attacked and nearly blinded by a drunken illegal Mexican while attending Rutgers in NJ. My son was attacked because he was the closest white person this man could find. And guess what? He was not convicted, because a jury of his "peers" wanted to see a video of the attack, even though there were witnesses. Of course, none of those witnesses was Latino, so in the eyes of the jury, they couldn't be trusted. So tell me, Oh great writer, what I tell my son, when he hears Trump talk about illegals. Should I say " Oh No, they are only undocumented, not illegal, and the little children cry themselves to sleep when Trump says something hurtful to them"? When the Latino community is willing to face up to, acknowledge, and condemn people like this man, then maybe they can stop the Trumps of the world from gaining traction. So keep your little stories and your childish arguments. This is the real world, and it's ugly.
16
I admire Héctor Tobar as a writer, as a journalist. The subtle and not so subtle attacks in the comments here on his op-Ed piece are amazing to me. I live in an area where many Latinos reside and what I notice is they work very hard, but are treated as "invisibles" by a great many people. Frankly, given the takeover by the very rich of this country by Trump and his cronies, the presence and legal status of Latinos is not my major concern by a long shot. I do believe as has our President and others, that we must resolve these issues of undocumented people. But name calling jingoism and threats by the likes of Trump and his followers simply are thinly veiled spasms of hatred for "those people." How sad and shameful..
50
Donald Trump is talking about tracking, arresting, jailing, and deporting 11 million people.
An earlier attempt by a major nation to track, arrest, jail and "deport" 7 million people required more than 200,000 policing and other workers and jammed the nation's rail system.
Aside from embracing the immense human tragedy he advocates, Trump has given no thought to American agriculture and food shortages that will accompany the industry's collapse.
It is a sad comment on American democracy that Trump's inhuman and insane proposals have not generated greater outrage.
An earlier attempt by a major nation to track, arrest, jail and "deport" 7 million people required more than 200,000 policing and other workers and jammed the nation's rail system.
Aside from embracing the immense human tragedy he advocates, Trump has given no thought to American agriculture and food shortages that will accompany the industry's collapse.
It is a sad comment on American democracy that Trump's inhuman and insane proposals have not generated greater outrage.
5
Beautiful writing, Mr. Tobar. Thank you.
2
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Recognize the quote? It's from the Statue of Liberty. Nowhere in this arms are open wide quote does it say "but only if you're here legally" Time to take the old girl down. She and we are no longer the shining light upon the hill waiting to welcome people with open arms whose only desire is a better life for themselves and their loved ones.
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
Recognize the quote? It's from the Statue of Liberty. Nowhere in this arms are open wide quote does it say "but only if you're here legally" Time to take the old girl down. She and we are no longer the shining light upon the hill waiting to welcome people with open arms whose only desire is a better life for themselves and their loved ones.
47
My deep gratitude, Sharon....At 78 and post-Stroke, my memory is gone. Your words from "The Lady" were what I reached for first...and couldn't find at 4AM this Morning. Again....my Gratitude to your Mind.
1
sharon, we naturalize over one million people a year, from all over the world, and from all socio-economic tiers of society. The promise is being kept.
Morality is not costume jewelry.
Morality is not costume jewelry.
2
Its very hard to legally enter US and its quite unfair on people who do it.Doesnt matter what Trump says or thinks, it must be realised that you are running out of your messed up backyard to someone's orderly house rather than fix your house. Then you blame that orderly house residents are complaining you unwarranted/uninvited stay.
6
You know, if the 1% didn't want to employ illegal immigrants to the US, in things like packing plants and if farmers didn't want to hire illegal immigrants in the field, illegal immigration would be a non-issue. Perhaps the Republican Party should talk about imposing fines on farmers and businesses that hire illegal immigrants - and make the fine an amount that actually means something, scaled to the size of the business and the number of illegals employed. But of course, Republican Party supporters who pay for campaigns don't want that, so you will never hear it mentioned. Far easier to rail against illegal immigration and threaten deportation (do you know the cost to deport 11 MILLION illegal immigrants vs laying off and letting them die of natural causes and having their legally born American children grow up with parents? I can assure you you are looking at BILLIONS of dollars at a minimum). Republicans are fairly hypocritical. And you do realize that under President Obama more illegal immigrants have been deported than under George W Bush? Many more?
5
Only in America does illegal activity get excused because so many people feel bad for the criminals. Too many illegal immigrants? Let them all in! Too many people in jail? Let them all out! Too many guns? Oops, can't have that, plus it isn't a crime...yet. Hypocrisy or stupidity? Take your pick.
11
"In families like Hugo’s, Mr. Trump’s campaign speaks to a child’s greatest fear: the possibility that he might be separated from his parents. Hugo was born in the United States, but his mother and father came here from Mexico 10 years ago."
Well, his mother and father should do the right thing and bring their son with them to Mexico. Who is responsible for their children, parents or the US. government?
Well, his mother and father should do the right thing and bring their son with them to Mexico. Who is responsible for their children, parents or the US. government?
9
Kind of weird--is attacking immigrants personal for Trump?
I see on Wikipedia:
"Trump's mother was a Scottish immigrant, born on the Isle of Lewis, off the west coast of Scotland. Trump's paternal grandparents were German immigrants."
Okay, so Trump himself is barely off the boat, but ferociously kicking the door closed behind himself....?
I see on Wikipedia:
"Trump's mother was a Scottish immigrant, born on the Isle of Lewis, off the west coast of Scotland. Trump's paternal grandparents were German immigrants."
Okay, so Trump himself is barely off the boat, but ferociously kicking the door closed behind himself....?
3
If Latino children are afraid of Trump, the only ones responsible are their parents. I recall when children were afraid of Barry Goldwater. Why? Because he was going to kill them in a nuclear war and they would not get to grow up. How did they know that? Because their parents told them so. Teach your children well............................
6
Few politicians--or Americans more generally--are willing to face the obvious economic facts: Mexican real wages are, roughly, one-quarter of US wages. Wage differentials have ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE been the main driver of labor migration. With such a large a disparity, there will NECESSARILY be pressure in favor of immigration. Such a disparity roughly means that for every hour you work, your family will be four times better off in the U.S. than in Mexico. If you were a Mexican, what would YOU do? Employers benefit; immigrants benefit. Low wage workers in the US, by and large, do not. And poor Mexicans are MUCH poorer than poor Americans. Therefore: to pick an immigration policy is to decide which poor people will be screwed. If you think it's fine to close off immigration, you might think about the impact that would have on Mexican society. Ask yourself: would you like to have an imploding, violent-ridden country of 123 million people with a 1,954 mile border with the U.S. right next door? And please, fellow Americans, don't tell me: "It's OUR country, not theirs!" I'm reminded of the wonderful poster I've seen, featuring a picture of Sitting Bull, with the caption: "So you're against immigration? Splendid! When to you leave?" Of course, the problems of poor Americans are ignored--by the very same people like Trump who bash immigrants. The 1% hate all poor people, on both sides of the border.
4
In families like Hugo’s, Mr. Trump’s campaign speaks to a child’s greatest fear: the possibility that he might be separated from his parents. Hugo was born in the United States, but his mother and father came here from Mexico 10 years ago.
“We tell him we don’t have the same papers he does,” Hugo’s father told me. “We have to explain that there are people like Donald Trump and Arpaio” — referring to Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz. — “who are against it.”
Sounds like Hugo's parents are illegals. Send them back to Mexico. If someone breaks into your house you call the police you don't feed them. Same if someone breaks into your country. US citizens don't get to pick and choose which laws to obey. Mexicans certainly should not get that choice.
“We tell him we don’t have the same papers he does,” Hugo’s father told me. “We have to explain that there are people like Donald Trump and Arpaio” — referring to Sheriff Joe Arpaio of Maricopa County, Ariz. — “who are against it.”
Sounds like Hugo's parents are illegals. Send them back to Mexico. If someone breaks into your house you call the police you don't feed them. Same if someone breaks into your country. US citizens don't get to pick and choose which laws to obey. Mexicans certainly should not get that choice.
7
Trump would make a great pinata.
2
And an even better President.
Scared of Donald Trump? Join the crowd..................
3
When an immigrant group gets large enough to dictate that political candidates how to talk and not to criticize it, it has grown way too big. We don't need to change our government and culture to accommodate recent arrivals.
8
Trump scares no one. The blame for the angst is all on the media and his other enemies.
1
No, Joe, the blame for the angst is the uneducated, ill-informed Republican base. An ignorant people vote their emotion, not their reason. They're the ones to be scared of, a people susceptible to be influenced by exploiters - for whom they foolishly vote and support.
Am I exaggerating? Maybe; however, look at the sad examples of men and women running for president the Republican Party is offering to its base.
Am I exaggerating? Maybe; however, look at the sad examples of men and women running for president the Republican Party is offering to its base.
1
Trump is a kind of monster - he is a caricature of a mean and powerful man who delights in tormenting others. He bullies women, and he has said terrible things about immigrants. He claims to want to deport all 11 million plus of undocumented immigrants, irregardless of how long they have lived in this country. He wants to deport all the Dreamers who have never known another country and many of whom do not speak Spanish. He wants to build a wall across 2000 miles. None of these are realistic goals, since there is no way to pay for them.
It is sad that the children are frightened but they are sensing that "dark vein of intolerance" that Colin Powell said is in the current GOP. On the bright side, on the Fourth of July fireworks celebration on San Francisco Bay, whenever there was an especially big explosion of fireworks, I heard a lot of Latino children scream "Donald Trump!) Maybe to them, he was a Guy Fawkes character that exploded.
It is sad that the children are frightened but they are sensing that "dark vein of intolerance" that Colin Powell said is in the current GOP. On the bright side, on the Fourth of July fireworks celebration on San Francisco Bay, whenever there was an especially big explosion of fireworks, I heard a lot of Latino children scream "Donald Trump!) Maybe to them, he was a Guy Fawkes character that exploded.
4
This morning, I was talking to the guy who owns the yard service that maintains many yards in our neighborhood, a Hispanic man whose family has lived in these parts since the border passed over them. He told me he will vote for Mr. Trump in a heartbeat, that he is tired of competing with illegal immigrants who live two families to an apartment and will work off the books for peanuts. He also said that all of the native Hispanos of his acquaintance would do the same.
By the way, all of the liberal progressives who would like the USA to more closely resemble the social democracies of Europe, be advised that none of them give babies born on their soil birthright citizenship like we do.
By the way, all of the liberal progressives who would like the USA to more closely resemble the social democracies of Europe, be advised that none of them give babies born on their soil birthright citizenship like we do.
13
Yes, well I also work with many 'undocumented' workers who live with generations of their families and I also know many Americans who live five to six families in a house, generation upon generation of Americans on public assistance. I also know numerous 'undocumented' workers who work their fingers to the bone for pennies every day. I also know many, many educated Latinos and every single Latino I know is voting for anyone but Trump. And here's another news flash--the Latino you were speaking with? He probably said what he said so he wouldn't have to listen to your foolishness any longer.
2
Viva Senor Trump! I think he is beatable in the general election, more so
than Senors Rubio and Bush. Latinos, other immigrant groups and highly
educated Republican women should flock to the Dems.
than Senors Rubio and Bush. Latinos, other immigrant groups and highly
educated Republican women should flock to the Dems.
3
He scares me too, and I'm 74 years old!
5
Very well written with interesting insights. Reflects well the Mexican culture that I know and love.
2
This writer tells us that Trump is calling Mexico a hellhole. If that is not true, WHY does he live here, and why do so many of his Mexican brothers and sisters risk their lives to get across the border?
5
I will ardently support Trump right up to the very instant I vote for Senator Sanders. I used to loath the man. Now, with a guilty smile, I welcome his every utterance. It's true that he makes his fatuous fellow candidates sputter and spit on their own hypocrisy, but there's so much more. That The Donald has delivered the the best on going schadenfreude moments of the decade is worthy of great praise and admiration. But in the end, by having Trump in the race, the front runner among his venal republican colleagues, why it's like having a personal very slow suicide bomber right inside the republican party.
So party on, republicans! It won't be long before even your corporate overlords throw all of you under the bus.
So party on, republicans! It won't be long before even your corporate overlords throw all of you under the bus.
6
One wonders to whom Mr. Trump speaks when he engages in public discourse about Mexican immigrants in the United States illegally. While the Latino community is very diverse and segments of it are prosperous, Mexican immigrants without papers represent a limited segment of the Latino community. Sooner or later, one way or another, most will become a permanent part of US society. (Since the mid-1990s, it has become very difficult for immigrants to return to their home in Mexico; some who would have migrated back and forth now are forced to stay in the US to maintain their employment)
Those in the US illegally (Mexicans constitute about half of illegal immigrants) have virtually no public voice, and limited impact on political decisions but that will change as their lives grow personal roots. Yet, many employers and some industries continue to depend on Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal. We all consume products and services produced by their labor.
Whether Trump really thinks he can implement his proposal that entire families be deported (including US born children) or not, his ideas throw a shadow around all immigrants who are in the US illegally. I wonder if Mr. Trump has proposals about the rest of immigrants who are in the United States illegally.
Those in the US illegally (Mexicans constitute about half of illegal immigrants) have virtually no public voice, and limited impact on political decisions but that will change as their lives grow personal roots. Yet, many employers and some industries continue to depend on Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal. We all consume products and services produced by their labor.
Whether Trump really thinks he can implement his proposal that entire families be deported (including US born children) or not, his ideas throw a shadow around all immigrants who are in the US illegally. I wonder if Mr. Trump has proposals about the rest of immigrants who are in the United States illegally.
4
Latino children aren't the only ones afraid of Donald Trump. I think he's pretty scary too.
30
Fear not, little children. Think of him as Mickey Mouse. Donald Trump's lead in the polls comes from the same rationale that inspires the voter to write Mickey Mouse on their ballot. It expresses a deep discontent. (Though I expect, if Trump somehow makes it onto the general election ballot, we might just see our first mouse in the White House!)
There once was a man named Trump
Whose place in the polls caused a bump
The Democrats paled
The Republicans wailed
But the man they created was Trump !
Trump fits exactly, the position the Republicans have created... FrankenTrump ?
Whose place in the polls caused a bump
The Democrats paled
The Republicans wailed
But the man they created was Trump !
Trump fits exactly, the position the Republicans have created... FrankenTrump ?
5
Yet somehow he can still find (presumably Latino) staff to clean his buildings. I don't get it. Seems hypocritical at best, the typical racist: all Latinos are criminals and here illegally, except the ones who work for $8 an hour making the beds at Trump Hotels.
7
The fault lies with our politicians and government not enforcing the laws for many years now, not with Donald Trump. Trump's immigration policy will get very high popular support and should become law.
8
They should be scared. They should know that their parents did criminal act by illegally staying in this country.
5
"He wants to kick out the Mexican people from America and just leave the American people."
Think about that one for a while.
Think about that one for a while.
9
No no no he wants the illegals kicked out --- most of texas is mexican american (born in US and even fought for Texas Independence in 1830's with Sam Houston)
you have to get out of NY and learn something more about history and demographics -- more to US than than the Manhattan Purchase by the Dutch !
you have to get out of NY and learn something more about history and demographics -- more to US than than the Manhattan Purchase by the Dutch !
1
Yep, this tells the whole story.
We have had enormous changes in the makeup of the American population in less than 50 years.
The American people never asked to have tens of millions of illegal Hispanic immigrants to come here.
Does Mr. Tobar doubt that we will end up having another amnesty in the next 10 years? I sure don't.
And then what?
Will the Hispanic community support efforts to do all we can to finally put a stop to illegal immigration so we never find ourselves in this situation again? Or will they see that as an attack too, even though as legal Americans they will now have much to lose if we keep on allowing illegal immigrants to enter and remain in America?
The American people never asked to have tens of millions of illegal Hispanic immigrants to come here.
Does Mr. Tobar doubt that we will end up having another amnesty in the next 10 years? I sure don't.
And then what?
Will the Hispanic community support efforts to do all we can to finally put a stop to illegal immigration so we never find ourselves in this situation again? Or will they see that as an attack too, even though as legal Americans they will now have much to lose if we keep on allowing illegal immigrants to enter and remain in America?
10
Kids, repeat after me: This is what we get for coming uninvited and for loving somebody's else country. This is what we get for running away from a country destroyed by corruption. This is what we get having the desired to better ourselves. This is what we get for being brown skinned.
8
Exactly. Well said. I wonder if someday national borders might be recognized as a form of institutional imprisonment.
"This is what we get for coming uninvited and for loving somebody's else country..."
Pedro, you've mistyped.
Should read, "this is what we get for coming uninvited and for disrespecting somebody's else country and her people..."
If you take to teaching children, teach them right...
Pedro, you've mistyped.
Should read, "this is what we get for coming uninvited and for disrespecting somebody's else country and her people..."
If you take to teaching children, teach them right...
2
What I learn by reading the COMMENTS in the NY Times:
I have and will never be a violent person.
But I no longer have much interest in defending the land of bigots, homophobes, misogynists, racists and xenophobe in which so many of the commenters live.
You need a fellow American to risk his life or make a sacrifice for you? That fellow American probably won't be me.
I have and will never be a violent person.
But I no longer have much interest in defending the land of bigots, homophobes, misogynists, racists and xenophobe in which so many of the commenters live.
You need a fellow American to risk his life or make a sacrifice for you? That fellow American probably won't be me.
5
That makes two of us. I will continue to vote and pay my taxes, but that's as far as I will go.
Fair enough, Jon
I'll gladly take your place and serve my country the best I can. And you're welcome to stay and be my friend.
I'll gladly take your place and serve my country the best I can. And you're welcome to stay and be my friend.
My great great grandfather came to the Rio Grande Valley around the time Andrew Jackson was President. He married a Texas born woman of Spanish decent. My family has been here ever since. My wife's ancestors are from the Texas tribe of the Comanche. Her family has also been living in the RGV for generations. Neither of us speak Spanish and nor does our kids. Unfortunately, in Brownsville Texas, where we live and where my great great grandfather immigrated to, if you don't speak Spanish you don't get a job. Even at the professional level. Even if you are an English teacher or a Pre K teacher. Tell me how that is fair Mr. Tobar
14
Right on --- my ancestor was Scot Irish dad and native american mother. He went to Texas in 1850's to get away from the prejudice of Mississippi and was drafted in Texas Confederacy. After the Civil War the lineage was Mexican American and I agree with you the double standard is terrible and no one cares or represents the so called gringo ! The illegals can get more representation because gringos are supposedly all have money, positions, afflence etc. What nonsense but by thinking that it seems to make the situation disappear --otherwise the disparity would /should be addressed. What disparity I see my whiter relatives go through particulalry if they dont speak/write Spanish. Where is the ACLU ? Worse many still have the Scot Irish name like you so even if they speak/write Spanish -- a flag goes up !
2
One thing I know is that nothing brings out the ugliness in people like the fear that that "other" person might be coming to take a little of what I have for myself. Personally, I'm happy to have immigrants come here, and without the steady flow of undocumented immigrants our economy would collapse. But for the sake of the soul of the country I hope we resolve the immigration issue soon lest we go the way of Germany in the 30s. The ugliness of many of the comments here makes me feel sick.
8
Trump has broadened the issue from that of illegal aliens (people here in violation of statutes) to demonization of an ethnic group (Hispanics). The latest twist is his proposal to deport underage American citizens who were born to illegal aliens, putatively to keep families together. Hispanics here illegally end up pay taxes -- but don't dare apply for benefits and cannot vote. Also, Hispanics see the duplicity and hypocrisy of pointing the finger at those from Mexico and Central America while never emphasizing the fact that people also come here without papers from many non-Spanish-speaking nations. (It's interesting that The Donald has never insisted on having Canada build a wall along the northern border, nor in forcing Canada to pay for such a structure). Curiously, the U.S. Congress solved the problem of people streaming into the USA from Cuba without papers by the simple expedient of making their status legal . Cubans were given 'amnesty'. Is anyone surprised that Hispanics from Mexico and Central America feel targeted by Mr. Trumps rhetoric, and by the enthusiastic support he has garnered from his (non-Hispanic) base?
4
You have to study more and take a broad look at the world and reality. Canadians are not uneducated, poor and/or sick. They do not burden the system with their needs --they carry their own weight. The Cubans came with amnesty because the US saw Cuba as an oppressive government and we broke relations with Cuba. And many Cubans would have been put to daeth under Castro had they not fled Cuba or had they returned. Central Americans and Mexicans have allowed corrupt leaders to keep you down and you have not rebelled or tried to improve your government from within --yes revolution if necessary (i.e. Pancho Villa, George Washington). You are welcome here if you go through the process. A process is a orderly system which Latin Americans are not use to because their leaders think they are the system so there is no long term order or appreciation for order. This allows for chaos and dependency and impoverishment. Using the legal US process will begin the understanding and education of new citizen applicants -- it is the beginning of ORDER for them . Without order the future is grim for new immigrants ------ and the US.
1
Some say we need the immigrants as we are an aging population with not enough to replace ourselves without them. Some say the immigrants are not all Mexican anymore but mostly Chinese and Indian. Others say they are taking jobs from Americans ..even the high tech ones, because of the corporate race to the bottom of wages. I do think there is a chance that if we spent money on our country's infrastructure and education for anyone here, instead of wars, we'd have a good shot at taking care of everyone. I believe the problem is corporatism or fascism. We need to bring back the "commons" and instead of privatizing everything, use our tax dollars to directly pay the public to do these jobs. For instance, the old style military was much more cost effective and efficient at getting the job done then private contractors. The wars in the Middle East have proven this abudantly. We have lost our standards of excellence in providing for the safety and well being of the public, because private corporations care only about their profit margins, not the best interests of all of us. Donald Trump will only bring us more of the same old. I'm voting for Bernie Sanders.
6
Out sourcing has killed the US job market and hiring private companies to fulfill the military's mission is also out sourcing (and with many problems).
I think the business of America is business. The government can not provide for us and it is a big sluggish machine filled with too many bureaucrats and incompetent employees --it feeds itself.
I think Trump has the business savvy to neutralize our enemies by getting them in their weak spots -- economic squeeze rather than weapon trigger squeeze. He is articulate, rough and goes for the jugular and pocket book which is what we need in this fast pace dog eat dog , yen for yen, buble for ruble, euro for euro world. I also think he knows how to stimulate our economy. Our infra structure is 3rd world -- and our food and drug inspectors are not on the mark so we need this to improve but the deadwood has to go and I think Trump has the where with all to burn and slash all the waste because he knows about the bottom line stuff. And the bottom line is a good thing because it cuts zeroes in on cost and focuses on needs and cuts waste, fraud and abuse--- if done right.
I like Bernie -- but will vote Trump.
I think the business of America is business. The government can not provide for us and it is a big sluggish machine filled with too many bureaucrats and incompetent employees --it feeds itself.
I think Trump has the business savvy to neutralize our enemies by getting them in their weak spots -- economic squeeze rather than weapon trigger squeeze. He is articulate, rough and goes for the jugular and pocket book which is what we need in this fast pace dog eat dog , yen for yen, buble for ruble, euro for euro world. I also think he knows how to stimulate our economy. Our infra structure is 3rd world -- and our food and drug inspectors are not on the mark so we need this to improve but the deadwood has to go and I think Trump has the where with all to burn and slash all the waste because he knows about the bottom line stuff. And the bottom line is a good thing because it cuts zeroes in on cost and focuses on needs and cuts waste, fraud and abuse--- if done right.
I like Bernie -- but will vote Trump.
It's because when he kisses a baby, he is really just seeing if it would make good soup.
1
A quick look at the top 25 comments tells me one thing: Trump is going to be in the White House.
If he grows an environmentalist attitude, he is a lock.
If he grows an environmentalist attitude, he is a lock.
5
Really, that is who they are scared of? Not their own corrupt homelands or the bog of their primitive, superstitious culture? Donald Trump, whatever wind he blows, is the least of their problems but it is easier to create boogeymen out of guys like him than to face the really scary parts of their own culture that keep them down like exceedingly high birth rates, failure to assimilate and learn English and low values put on education. Those are the real Chupucabras.
8
Donald Trump and the Sheriff in Phoenix remind me of a Pharisee in the temple, always trying to follow to the letter of the Jewish law for their own purposes. Jesus put them in their place then and he will do so again. Winthrop does that describe you. Are you a Pharisee, sure looks like it. Remember most of the mass murders and murderers are white mentally deranged people. I am not a Latino child and I am white and Donald is scary to me.
20
Doris -- of planet Californian !
the whites (blacks, latins, asians, middle easterners etc too ) are US citizens --- and there is no sanctuary city status for them to hide under -- the legal processs will take place against them or for them
there is no punishment or lenient punishment (detained for a short period ?) for the illegal alien criminals
there is also no filter from country of origin as to the criminal records of illegals
why should we have to suffer for people who didnt go thru the system? for a country of origin that does not provide criminal records ? for the expense of apprehending illegals, tax money paying for their med bills and other social services when they are not citizens and are perhaps criminals ?
why should US citizens suffer the grief when one of their family members are raped, robbed, murdered by someone who is an illegal alien and had no business being in the US ?
you must be deranged if following the law is wrong --what are you suppose to follow in a civil society ---feelings ? what planet are you on ? all civil societies have established laws --- even the ancient ones -- read the Code of Hammurabi (Babylon)
Californians should be scared of DONALD TRUMP --he is SANE unlike Pelosi, Feinstein, Brown --the San Francisco city council of cowards and the other looney tunes in locust land
the whites (blacks, latins, asians, middle easterners etc too ) are US citizens --- and there is no sanctuary city status for them to hide under -- the legal processs will take place against them or for them
there is no punishment or lenient punishment (detained for a short period ?) for the illegal alien criminals
there is also no filter from country of origin as to the criminal records of illegals
why should we have to suffer for people who didnt go thru the system? for a country of origin that does not provide criminal records ? for the expense of apprehending illegals, tax money paying for their med bills and other social services when they are not citizens and are perhaps criminals ?
why should US citizens suffer the grief when one of their family members are raped, robbed, murdered by someone who is an illegal alien and had no business being in the US ?
you must be deranged if following the law is wrong --what are you suppose to follow in a civil society ---feelings ? what planet are you on ? all civil societies have established laws --- even the ancient ones -- read the Code of Hammurabi (Babylon)
Californians should be scared of DONALD TRUMP --he is SANE unlike Pelosi, Feinstein, Brown --the San Francisco city council of cowards and the other looney tunes in locust land
Rhetorical question: Why does every Times article on this topic leave off the "illegal" part of illegal immigration? I don't think many people, Trump included, are against legal immigrants coming in through the front door. But it does seem like many legal Hispanic immigrants are very much for illegals coming in through the back door...
49
Actually, the great narcissist has repeatedly spoken out against legal immigration too. He just saves his most racist comments for undocumented immigrants.
1
Trump is not a racist, but a "Trumpist". A racist is someone who loves only his race. A Trumpist is someone who loves only Trump himself.
9
Sadly, while the piñata trick may work with the Chupacabra, as those people in Weimar discovered it's far from fool-proof. The good news is, Anne Coulter and the rest notwithstanding, with any luck at all we are still a long way from Weimar.
6
Talk of mass deportations has become acceptable in the Republican Party. We ignore xenophobia at our peril.
5
The only thing wrong with the Trump pinata is, it's not candy he's full of.
31
Perhaps the parents of the children should be the ones who are scared. But lessons should be learned when you openly break our laws, you shoudn't get rewarded you should be sent back and if you want to live here and enjoy all that this country has to offer perhaps you should start by obeying our laws and waiting your turn in line. While most of those coming here tend to work hard and find employment they should still come here legally and apply for citizenship and not cross our borders in the dead of night.
50
Laura, Latinos and their children as well as anyone in this country with sense, know how well the GOPTP thinks it is able to tell just from looking at the color of their skin if a person is "legal" or not- and further that the GOPTPites maybe more than willing to act of that at any moment That is why they (and I) are afraid, and from I can tell for the GOPTP commentators, they should be.
2
Señor, this will not help you.
They call him “The Donald”—because this is his name.
I do not know the man, but I know of him. Perhaps I can take you to him—for a fee, naturally.
They call him “The Donald”—because this is his name.
I do not know the man, but I know of him. Perhaps I can take you to him—for a fee, naturally.
3
I am a Latin immigrant, who came with a passport, and worked my way to US citizenship, the right way.
I worked my way up from housekeeping jobs, and bussing dishes, to managing a multimillion dollar company.
I am always ashamed and discouraged when I see the Latin towns in the big cities.
To me, they look just like my grandmother’s town, deep in rural Mexico in the 1970’s. The locals do not speak English, watch TV in Spanish, and complain all the time about the mean Americans, attempt to act like they are back in the town of their childhood, and educate their children to remain this way, and to think of themselves as oppressed.
It’s amazing what happens when one family decides to move out of their Barrio, suddenly they look and act like the country where they live - USA
Mi gente, you are here, in the US of A. It’s a gorgeous country, full of opportunity and chances to make it.
If you want to be accepted, join the country you live in, and leave the past behind.
I worked my way up from housekeeping jobs, and bussing dishes, to managing a multimillion dollar company.
I am always ashamed and discouraged when I see the Latin towns in the big cities.
To me, they look just like my grandmother’s town, deep in rural Mexico in the 1970’s. The locals do not speak English, watch TV in Spanish, and complain all the time about the mean Americans, attempt to act like they are back in the town of their childhood, and educate their children to remain this way, and to think of themselves as oppressed.
It’s amazing what happens when one family decides to move out of their Barrio, suddenly they look and act like the country where they live - USA
Mi gente, you are here, in the US of A. It’s a gorgeous country, full of opportunity and chances to make it.
If you want to be accepted, join the country you live in, and leave the past behind.
62
Wonderful advice.
1
What is this mentality? Should we let all immigrants stay here illegally or just those from Mexico?? Trump doesn't speak against legal immigrants or legal immigration. He only speaks against the ILLEGAL ones. Your story doesn't mention the people who come here legally who say Trump is right. It should be fair for all.
1
thank you for this. What Tobar and other defenders of illegal immigrants do not wish to see is what you highlight-- the failure to assimilate, the insistence on living third world lifestyles, the belief that is THEIR way, not our way that matters. That's the root of American anti-immigrant feelings, and that is what Trump has picked up on. I concur: and I am a liberal democrat!
3
This is fabulous—I laughed 'til it hurt too much to continue. Donald Trump as the bogeyman! Who ever said the Times lacks humor?
12
Margaret, I'm an adult WASP also, and I truly fear for any country whose voters would elect Mr. Trump.
25
Walker pinatas will be next ... he is as heartless as Trump.
8
Have a heart for Americans - including immigrants who followed the procedure for naturalization - whose wages have been and will continue to be diminished by the availability of undocumented laborers, and by the vastly expanded pool of legally employable workers which will result from this administration's proposed "reform".
Won't you, Reverend?
Won't you, Reverend?
1
But more Christian, although I'm perplexed as to what Jesus it is he claims to worship. The one I've read about would be repulsed by both Trump and Walker.
1
Right now Mr. Trump is laughing at his supporters. While he has his companies hire all those undocumented immigrants and expands his own profits, he spews all sort of demagoguery --which of course he does not believe.
There is nothing best for capitalism than cheap labor, and the cheapest the better --no wonder Mr. Trump's trinkets are made in China and elsewhere....
There is nothing best for capitalism than cheap labor, and the cheapest the better --no wonder Mr. Trump's trinkets are made in China and elsewhere....
17
Child I wanted you to have health care and education and a future so I risked it all to send you to the US so maybe some day you could be a billionaire like Donald Trump.
3
"Like certain politicians in the Weimar Republic, he’s found a largely defenseless group to pick on — who also happen to be reviled by a bankable minority of the electorate."
Two comments: 1) Wow! 2) Slickly done.
Two comments: 1) Wow! 2) Slickly done.
9
So it's not OK that Trump wants to enforce immigration laws already on the books, but it is OK to teach children to hate him for it and smash his effigy with big sticks. Only in the New York Times does this illogic behavior make sense.
50
A lot of bigots here today. No doubt they will vote for Trump or whatever anti-Hispanic candidate the Republicans run for President. But their hatred has enraged not only Latinos but a lot of us who are not Latino, and we will take it out on the Republicans in our big turnout on Election Day 2016. It's not just Latinos who are insulted by Trump, just as it's not just African-Americans who support the call "Black Lives Matter." We are the majority. If you think Romney lost the election by suggesting self-deportation in 2012, you ain't seen nada yet.
34
It is not bigoted to want secure borders and our immigration laws enforced.
1
Thanks for perfectly expressing my sentiments!
1
I'm a second generation "latino" from California. I think you don't know what you're talking about. I see first hand every day the problems associated with unchecked, illegal immigration. It is almost as harmful to the illegal immigrants themselves as it is to this country. There are places where it comes a point, a critical mass is reached and that area is no longer the Untied States. And by areas, I mean not neighborhoods, but towns, cities and counties. It is nearly impossible to assimilate at that point, and these people are surrounded and stuck in a Mexico they recreated. The same one they wanted to leave and they have no chance of leaving, because it is of their own design. So excuse me for ignoring your racist charged tripe. If the hard truth of the situation is being put forth by Donald trump, then, as per this issue, it will be Trump I will support.
3
Illegal immigration is a problem for the US. Trump has a plan however it is crazy as how can you deport 11 million people and how can you deport US citizens? President Obama has tried to address this by deporting the most people of any president. He has a plan to address the 11 million people here already. The GOP has done nothing but stand in the way. They could put a bill on his desk but never bring it up. People here illegally should be scared however we need a plan and laws that work.
11
I love the browning of America and see a time coming when the whining true Americans will be denied Mexican food and never get any mole.
Possibly they should be denied Chinese and Italian food and just have to eat American white bread and watch Fox news.
Possibly they should be denied Chinese and Italian food and just have to eat American white bread and watch Fox news.
18
The author doesn't believe in immigration laws at all, that much is obvious. But he should simply have said so in the first sentence -- it would have saved writing the rest of the piece.
54
Trump is not frightening. What's frightening is that there are so many Republicans who support him. He's not a "clown" anymore; he is the embodiment of evil and bigotry, and there's a big part of the Republican electorate that laps it up.
That's what should be scaring the Latino children, and all of us.
That's what should be scaring the Latino children, and all of us.
29
Perhaps the parents should tell their lovely children how they got to be in the United States, well son we paid this man quite a bit of money and we packed in a van and came into this country illegally, we didn't wait in line, we didn't apply like law abiding future citizens we cut in line and stayed here without notifying the host country.
96
Nice world you live in. Glad I am not part of it.
But son, you are an American citizen. We gave up everything for YOU (says any parent who might want their child to have a brighter future than they did).
The times has me still living in Mexico, I moved back home to Cleveland a few weeks ago after living in Columbus for 5, Riverside county, California for 20 years , and Michoacán, Mex for 20 years. I moved to Mecico as an English teacher when I was like 48. I like mexico as much as I like this country. the Mexicans are good hardworking people. The USA should do its best to have the best relations possible with its neighbors. We only have 2, and it is much better than the stupid Donald's ideas about wrecking Mexico and shipping undocumented people out. I also know Canada a little and like the people there too. If the Donald would win, I would leave the USA. There is a good book about US and Mex relations under FDR I think the title is
The Good Neighbor Policy, an old book from FDR's period
The Good Neighbor Policy, an old book from FDR's period
7
Mr. Tobar, let's not demonize Mr. Trump by bringing up young children. We can quibble about the numbers, but it's pretty much accepted that if we didn't have such a large number of illegal aliens, we wouldn't have as much crime. Trump touched on a very sensitive topic, a very politically incorrect one, but one that mainstream Americans can related to; especially those who are in the poorer economic scale. LEGAL immigrants of all backgrounds absolutely despise illegal immigration. These naturalized citizens vote and they aren't going to vote for a candidate that allows illegal immigration to continue unchecked. It hurts them directly. Trump reads the electorate better than most, he knows this issue will garner a lot of votes from naturalized legal Hispanic voters. These Hispanic voters aren't speaking out in fear of being attacked by other illegal Hispanics in their community. A few polls show Trump of is the leading candidate receiving the most support from Latino Republicans; more than Cruz or Rubio.
148
Illegal immigrants are responsible for a small percentage of our crime. Most of our criminals are the homegrown kind.
3
Got data - from a source other than a rightwing blog?
Mr. Prashad, please do not make the absurd claim that you speak for the whole legal immigrant community. I immigrated legally to this country when I was a teenager; I became a citizen when I was in my 20s. I am a productive citizen of the USA for now 30 years. American is great because it is a land of opportunity for all and has served as a beacon of human right and compassion in the world for over a century. Mr. Trump's hate-filled politics undermines the core strength of our country: we are one people regardless of our origins. Be thankful that we have the good fortune to come to this land legally and safely; have charity for those who are less fortunate but still willing to embrace the ideal that is America. You can be certain that I will fight hard against Mr. Trump and politicians who advocate fear and hate. I am far from alone in the LEGAL immigrant community.
26
I agree that Trump's message is wrapped in hatred. However, this discussion needs to be had- and after suffering through the current politicians either avoiding this issue (which for many, including those that live in "santuary cities" like myself- and are very important) or wrapping it in equally appalling tactics used to pull at heart strings- it is relieving that this issue is getting some press. So, although i would never vote for Trump myself, i am immensely grateful that he has managed (when no one dared go there at the risk of sounding racist) to bring this issue to national headlines.
30
Case in point. Little tiny towns in Washington state, in our local newspaper just this minute we read this article: "Drug bust, 29 pounds of meth, 18 pounds of heroin, 6 pounds of cocaine, 178,000.00 in cash, 16 firearms including 5 assault rifles and all culprits Latinos illegal immigrants. So, yeah, I hope Donald Trump wins and just maybe we can clean up this mess and label these types of illegals as domestic terrorists. Which they are. These towns with a population on average of 50 to 80 thousand should not have to put up with this kind of take over of our streets and our people and children.
81
Claim that he's the Latino boogie-man all you want, but here's a fact for you: politicians in this country will continue to get louder and more extreme the longer this country waits to deal with it's immigration problem. It's too bad that Latino's might feel like they're being targeted, but what's truly sad is that it's taken so long for the political class to wake up to voter outrage on illegal immigration it's associated crime, tax loss, potential job and wage loss and the associated financial healthcare costs. Other countries, both poor and wealthy, have immigration policies and laws (that they actually enforce), which are just about par for what Trump has proposed. Like him or hate him, it's hard to avoid those stark realities. In this respect, Democrats have done far more harm to the Latino community, both legal and illegal.
148
They have put a huge strain on our public schools. This article is a pathetic attempt to garner sympathy.
3
Agree with much of what you say, except: a) it was Reagan that passed the first amnesty, which was an open door to the huge numbers of illegals we now suffer with; and b) many of the business owners who hire these illegals are of course, the staunchest of republicans. The blame for this mess is bi-partisan.
1
Trump wants to amend the US Constitution to permit the deportation of children who were born citizens of the USA.
Children are not likely to know that a constitutional amendment takes at least 10 years to pass. Neither are typical American xenophobes, whose knowledge of their native law is almost as impaired as their skill with the English language.
If Trump's goal is to harness the anger of the worst elements of American society, he has already succeeded brilliantly. Which explains why he will never be elected president.
Children are not likely to know that a constitutional amendment takes at least 10 years to pass. Neither are typical American xenophobes, whose knowledge of their native law is almost as impaired as their skill with the English language.
If Trump's goal is to harness the anger of the worst elements of American society, he has already succeeded brilliantly. Which explains why he will never be elected president.
15
Trump's all over international media blaming U.S. problems on other countries: who has he mentioned? Mexico, China, etc. Will the psychological impact spread beyond just Latinos? How will international relations be improved with such tactics? Trump was almost right when he said on Meet the Press, "We talk too much." He should say, "I talk to much. Playing the blame game doesn't fix anything. Actions may, but any action of the U.S. requires collaboration with the appropriate expertise."
4
I don't agree with Mr. Trump, nor do I agree with this op-ed. Somehow it has become wrong to use the term illegal when discussing foreigners who come to this country illegally. We have to use the term undocumented. Somehow, those who feel people should not come into this country illegally are "wrong" and we should be thankful for all the illegal immigrants have done for the United States. I am a progressive. I do think we need to absorb all those who we allowed to break our laws and live here illegally. However, before we do that, we need to stop the illegal entry into the country, then provide some type of residency permit to those who are already here. And frankly, we need to change the amendment to our constitution that allows children born to those who enter the country illegally to be citizens automatically. If the parents are not here legally, neither are their children.
51
So, can the Democrats and those who support them please start doing a better job of conveying that it's not just "The Donald" monster - it's ALL Republicans. Trump is just vocalizing what the Republicans generally stand for. This needs to be stated loud and clear in case some un- or partially-informed people aren't getting it.
The Democrats have SO MUCH ammunition (as it were) to use against the Republicans. Broadcast their failings on the economy. Broadcast their stance on guns, and on women. Compile lists of them, include many quotes, and put them up on billboards across the country. Why aren't we doing this?
The fact that the Democrats are as quiet as they are when they could be saying so much about the Republicans' dismal record and position on practically everything makes me wonder whether they are all in the same pockets of the same rich donors.
The Democrats have SO MUCH ammunition (as it were) to use against the Republicans. Broadcast their failings on the economy. Broadcast their stance on guns, and on women. Compile lists of them, include many quotes, and put them up on billboards across the country. Why aren't we doing this?
The fact that the Democrats are as quiet as they are when they could be saying so much about the Republicans' dismal record and position on practically everything makes me wonder whether they are all in the same pockets of the same rich donors.
7
Or maybe it's because a lot of Democrats AGREE with Trump
On this issue
On this issue
1
Kudos to whoever made the Trump pinata! It is spot on. I'm no fan of illegal immigration by any means, but I like Donald Trump far less.
4
Latino children are scared of Donald Trump? They must be pretty normal then because anything with a brain would be scared of Donald Trump.
9
I am not Latino.
I am not a child.
I am afraid of Donald Trump, and I am afraid of those who support his platform and statements.
I am not a child.
I am afraid of Donald Trump, and I am afraid of those who support his platform and statements.
10
It's not only Latino Children that are afraid of this lunatic ever becoming President!
8
Many of those commenting here fail to grasp the point of this Op-Ed.
The Op-Ed is not a substantive analysis of immigration policy. Reasonable minds differ as to issues like amnesty, the DREAM Act, and birthright citizenship in the United States. But, that's not what Mr. Tobar is writing about.
Instead, he is pointing out how Mr. Trump does not address these complex issues as a "reasonable mind." Instead, he makes unfounded, debasing, hateful statements about Mexican human beings specifically, and Latinos in general.
Mr. Trumps' statements about those who (despite his disdain and apparent hatred) are just as much human beings as he is are important. His demonstrated lack of respect for other human beings and lack of respect for the presidency of the United States make him an unfit candidate to lead this nation.
The Op-Ed is not a substantive analysis of immigration policy. Reasonable minds differ as to issues like amnesty, the DREAM Act, and birthright citizenship in the United States. But, that's not what Mr. Tobar is writing about.
Instead, he is pointing out how Mr. Trump does not address these complex issues as a "reasonable mind." Instead, he makes unfounded, debasing, hateful statements about Mexican human beings specifically, and Latinos in general.
Mr. Trumps' statements about those who (despite his disdain and apparent hatred) are just as much human beings as he is are important. His demonstrated lack of respect for other human beings and lack of respect for the presidency of the United States make him an unfit candidate to lead this nation.
22
The nightmares of Latino children are rarely considered when they are dragged across hundreds of miles under the most horrendous conditions. Talk about "meanness to the Latino community"!
And, yet, we are to believe that somehow Trump has become the cause of their nightmares? If they have nightmares it's because of how their own families and governments have mistreated them.
As for the right to complain, it is only awarded to those who arrive legally. Everyone else forfeits that right when one of their first acts on American soil is to break the law.
And, yet, we are to believe that somehow Trump has become the cause of their nightmares? If they have nightmares it's because of how their own families and governments have mistreated them.
As for the right to complain, it is only awarded to those who arrive legally. Everyone else forfeits that right when one of their first acts on American soil is to break the law.
93
Under the law illegal immigrants forfeit certain rights to obtain benefits, but as a human being they retain certain inalienable rights such as humane considerate treatment not racist epithets, brutality and mass condemnation.
1
AAC-Except many of the children are CITIZENS!! How do we deport a person to a country that is not theirs by birth? Are you really this obtuse? And where are the cries to deport anchor baby Jindal? If you want to change the law by all means change it!! But don't hold your breath about anything being done by our corporate owned politicians who like the status quo just fine. More cheap labor to exploit and a means to depress wages even further which means more money in their pockets.
And BTW where is your outrage at the expansion of the H1B Visa program which depresses wages in the good technical industry jobs? The silence is deafening. This is nothing more than racism covered with some transparent lie that the republicans are concerned about the wages, health and well being of the average citizen. If they were sooo concerned about us they wouldn't be proposing gutting EPA and other government oversight, the public education system, undermining the union gains through the years, destroying SS and Medicare, abolishing ACA and going back to the status quo, undermining workers' rights, involving us in another trumped up war, refusing to repair our vital infrastructure, and so opposed to a living wage or an increase in minimum wage.
But just keep believing in the fairytale. Just don't come crying to the rest of us when all their worse nightmares come true and we become a third world fascist nation. I hope you'll enjoy reaping the "harvest" that you've allowed to be sown.
And BTW where is your outrage at the expansion of the H1B Visa program which depresses wages in the good technical industry jobs? The silence is deafening. This is nothing more than racism covered with some transparent lie that the republicans are concerned about the wages, health and well being of the average citizen. If they were sooo concerned about us they wouldn't be proposing gutting EPA and other government oversight, the public education system, undermining the union gains through the years, destroying SS and Medicare, abolishing ACA and going back to the status quo, undermining workers' rights, involving us in another trumped up war, refusing to repair our vital infrastructure, and so opposed to a living wage or an increase in minimum wage.
But just keep believing in the fairytale. Just don't come crying to the rest of us when all their worse nightmares come true and we become a third world fascist nation. I hope you'll enjoy reaping the "harvest" that you've allowed to be sown.
You were right on the money with your analogy to the early days of the Weimar Republic. Trump, Arpaio, Colter, and the rest of the "tea-party sympathizers' would be laughable if they weren't such dangerous fear and hate mongers.
7
What's scarier than growing up in the US with the constant threat of deportation because your parents gave birth to you before legalizing their own status? That's a whole lot scarier to American born Latino children than Donald Trump could ever be. Trump's rhetoric - although not often welcome to hear - is simply what everyone is thinking - but is too politically correct to touch.
91
Well and that's right they are scared of Donald Trump because although his chances to win the White House in 2016 is quite scarce but if by any miracle he becomes the president he'll send them all away to their home country and build a wall along American borders.
6
Has anyone explained to these children the concept of entering a country legally versus illegally?
If they are here legally they have nothing to fear.
If their parents broke laws and reside here illegally , maybe the parents can explain this concept to their children.
If they are here legally they have nothing to fear.
If their parents broke laws and reside here illegally , maybe the parents can explain this concept to their children.
59
From nine year old Alexandra Rubalacava: "Every one should be fair, and we should all be treated the right way."
Exactly: no one is above the law. It should be administered to everyone the same way. Why do the people of Mexico feel they have the right and entitlement to move to the US and work here? Just how exactly are they entitled to do that?
Exactly: no one is above the law. It should be administered to everyone the same way. Why do the people of Mexico feel they have the right and entitlement to move to the US and work here? Just how exactly are they entitled to do that?
57
"...and work here." Many are not working. The women do not work-- they have baby after baby. Many of the men are paid in cash-- no payroll taxes contributing to our system. Many of them are involved in the illegal an complicated and dangerous drug trade.
1
Mr. Tobar and all the open border advocates should be attacking the corrupt Mexican government. The US taxpayer does not have any obligation to act as a safety valve for the failure of Mexican social and economic policies. Mr. Tobar----I do not have to accept illegal aliens.
62
No one should fear the hate spoken by Mr. Trump, as it boils down to the fact the GOP tolerates this type behavior within its own party. As a community, those of us who can vote should vote and all green card holders hold apply for Naturalization. There is no go to the end-of-the-line, when there is no line.
3
Trump's xenophobic rants aren't as worrisome to me as are the comments which, here as in nearly every other NYT piece that addresses immigration, and packed with anti-immigrant vitriol and condescending comments. The facts that net immigration from Mexico has greatly declined, or that immigrants in fact bring much more than they take to the US economy, is lost on these folks. Yes, of course, we are a nation of laws, but we are also a nation of compassion, a nation of opportunity, and a nation of immigrants ourselves. A humane immigration policy that contains a viable path to citizenship is the only way to resolve this, but the current Congress shows no spine in this regard. Perhaps the Capital Dome would make a pretty decent piñata itself!
33
Republicans are in favor of immigration. It is illegal immigration they are against. Either we have a country or we don't. If we don't, and Obama is in favor of this, then just throw open the borders for all. Think of how much we would save if we disbanded the Border Patrol as advocated by some liberals.....
6
Thank you. Well said.
Spoken like another elite who lives far, far removed from cities suffering the negative consequences of the illegal Latino invasion.
Asian, and other non-Hispanic minorities feel equally offended by Republican attacks on Hispanics, and by God we will remember at the ballot box. I am not Hispanic. I am not undocumented. Entered his country legally with a green card 40 years ago, and a proud US citizen for 35 years. Yet the mean-spirited hate spewed toward Hispanics by Republicans, and failure of the leadership to call the haters out makes me more and more determined to not vote for any Republican candidate, even those that will make good elected officials.
18
Right - it's racist to oppose open borders and no illegal immigrants have ever committed serious crimes that would have been avoided if the Obama administration enforced the law as they are duty bound and legally bound to do.
The owners of the country, the real owners, surely are growing richer as median incomes plummet and debt grows.
Let's all go down to the soda shop while this country turns into Mexico.
The owners of the country, the real owners, surely are growing richer as median incomes plummet and debt grows.
Let's all go down to the soda shop while this country turns into Mexico.
54
There were 50 million Hispanics in the US in 2010, 80% of them legal citizens, the fastest growing ethnic group reaching voting age. No one is doing a better job than Donald "Pinata" Trump to mobilize Hispanic voters, who have the lowest rates of voter participation today among ethnic groups.
A lot of Americans are angry about "illegals" when, in fact the demographic tide is going back out. Mexico will soon have a lower birth rate than the US, a rapidly growing middle class and more women joining the workforce.
The Economist predicts shortages of agricultural labor throughout the South within the next few years. Agribusiness in the South has long relied on illegal labor on the cheap.
The problem of illegal hiring practices will be self correcting. Agribusiness, meat processing, restaurants, construction firms and others relying on an exploitable work force are going to have to adjust their labor management practices.
A lot of Americans are angry about "illegals" when, in fact the demographic tide is going back out. Mexico will soon have a lower birth rate than the US, a rapidly growing middle class and more women joining the workforce.
The Economist predicts shortages of agricultural labor throughout the South within the next few years. Agribusiness in the South has long relied on illegal labor on the cheap.
The problem of illegal hiring practices will be self correcting. Agribusiness, meat processing, restaurants, construction firms and others relying on an exploitable work force are going to have to adjust their labor management practices.
11
The problem is that supporters of limits on immigration see the long-term scenario in the U.S. playing out like the Native Americans encountering the European invaders or the Native Hawaiians encountering mainland Americans--basically it ends cultural genocide for the original inhabitants.
10
The media and writers such as Hector seem to paint latinos as stupid or oblivious. Which I can't believe they are. We are to believe that the 'latino perspective' can't comprehend the problems of illegal immigration. When Mexico has a tighter southern border than the US has and for the same reasons we should. They don't want to be the welfare provider for poorer countries. They can't afford to be. So it really seems to insult the intelligence of everyone that what Trump said was supposedly so wrong. Especially given that Harry Reid said the same thing a few years earlier and nobody batted an eye. It's just the outrage machine being it's glorious hypocritical self to the detriment of everyone.
37
It is a pity that these children have been taught a lesson, from the people who they should be able to trust, that it is okay to break the law, ignore the law, and expect a country who has been slighted to turn the other cheek.
These kids, along with their parents, should be deported. There should be no exceptions. If the United States is going to stop this unfettered invasion they must send a very strong and powerful message that breaking laws come with consequences, not rewards.
No other country in the world is as stupid as the United States. Powerful people with lots of money are what have allowed this country to seek these new lows. And that would include Democrats and Republicans. Time to take this country back!!!!
These kids, along with their parents, should be deported. There should be no exceptions. If the United States is going to stop this unfettered invasion they must send a very strong and powerful message that breaking laws come with consequences, not rewards.
No other country in the world is as stupid as the United States. Powerful people with lots of money are what have allowed this country to seek these new lows. And that would include Democrats and Republicans. Time to take this country back!!!!
37
and, the logical conclusion to your xenophobic argument: everyone goes back to their country of origin - give it back to the native americans ??
or, because black people who were IMPORTED, ILLEGALLY as SLAVES that built most of the wealth of the united states be given this country as REPARATIONS??
it's not YOUR country to "take back".
or, because black people who were IMPORTED, ILLEGALLY as SLAVES that built most of the wealth of the united states be given this country as REPARATIONS??
it's not YOUR country to "take back".
I am fascinated that everyone starts with the a priori assumption that illegal immigration is a problem. I wonder if any of the comment writers could name any way that they have been harmed by an illegal immigrant. There are both positive and negative impacts resulting from immigration, both legal and illegal. We do a disservice to this issue when we start the whole discussion based on overly simplistic, partially false assumptions.
5
To all the haters in these comments: I assume none of you are parents. If you were parents you would know that parents will move mountains to get their children safer, better lives. In almost any other context, that parental instinct is one we universally praise and admire.
The parental instinct is deeply routed in evolutionary biology, and it's not divisible into parts. It's simply not of this world to say, parents should do whatever they can to protect their children except immigrate without proper papers.
As a lawyer, I'm well aware that "the law is the law." But surely compassion has a place in public policy as well. As Justice Holmes said, "the life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience."
Of course, those of you who have never broken a law should feel free to cast the first stones.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
The parental instinct is deeply routed in evolutionary biology, and it's not divisible into parts. It's simply not of this world to say, parents should do whatever they can to protect their children except immigrate without proper papers.
As a lawyer, I'm well aware that "the law is the law." But surely compassion has a place in public policy as well. As Justice Holmes said, "the life of the law has not been logic; it has been experience."
Of course, those of you who have never broken a law should feel free to cast the first stones.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
14
Although your comment is well meant, and clearly meant to be humane- I find it far fetched (as a parent to two young children)l. Would you be able to extend this same logic to the any number of crimes that many can rationalize as being for the sake of the family (robbing a convenience store, etc)?Many crimes are committed with the intention of improving one/one's family's lot- none are given a pass in the law's eyes-why is this considered any different?
8
What time can my family come over for dinner? Also, we need to borrow your car for a few weeks, I promise we'll bring it back good as new.
Where's the compassion man?
Where's the compassion man?
2
Nibbles,
And if a parent robbed a convenience store to feed his or her child, would you feel no compassion for the parent? Or the child?
Or are we back in the days of Jean Valjean?
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
And if a parent robbed a convenience store to feed his or her child, would you feel no compassion for the parent? Or the child?
Or are we back in the days of Jean Valjean?
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
1
The world is invading the West
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-18/immigration-issue-century
And the West can not continue to absorb millions of migrants each year - let alone do so and preserve its own God-given right to remain a people.
Yes - gasp - ethnicity matters, and though I have spent decades listening to Latino and other activists complain and demand - at some point, people began to take seriously the idea that European, or European derived nations have no right to control immigration.
They do.
Perhaps Latino activists might spend some time asking why Latin american countries can't seem to get their acts together?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-18/immigration-issue-century
And the West can not continue to absorb millions of migrants each year - let alone do so and preserve its own God-given right to remain a people.
Yes - gasp - ethnicity matters, and though I have spent decades listening to Latino and other activists complain and demand - at some point, people began to take seriously the idea that European, or European derived nations have no right to control immigration.
They do.
Perhaps Latino activists might spend some time asking why Latin american countries can't seem to get their acts together?
51
Trump bloviates, blows hard, and is maddeningly unspecific about many policy issues. But he should not be turned into an immigration boogeyman, because there is nothing for immigrant children to fear if their parents are here legally. That is true whether they are from Mexico or Mali, Guatemala or Guyana, Belize or Benin, and Haiti or Hong Kong.
If their parents are here illegally, their parents have put them into a difficult position. Look. I don't blame them for coming here. I'd probably do the same thing and try to get away with it, were the situation that I was impoverished in a corrupt nation with no upward mobility. It's with a heavy and compassionate heart that I would want them to go home. But home they should go, nonetheless, for a slew of policy reasons that will help both Americans and those who wait patiently to come here legally.
If their parents are here illegally, their parents have put them into a difficult position. Look. I don't blame them for coming here. I'd probably do the same thing and try to get away with it, were the situation that I was impoverished in a corrupt nation with no upward mobility. It's with a heavy and compassionate heart that I would want them to go home. But home they should go, nonetheless, for a slew of policy reasons that will help both Americans and those who wait patiently to come here legally.
42
The parents of my mother and father all immigrated to the US in the late 1920s. My father's parents worked as servants for rich families in Rhode Island and my mother's parents rented farmland and did odd jobs. I'm very proud of them, the values they taught me, and my Scots-French-German heritage.
Here's the thing, when I dig into their history, it seems that all of these new arrivals had major problems with their immigration paperwork at one time or another. That is to say, they were to some degree undocumented and might have been deported under the regime favored by Trump. My maternal grandmother was actually stranded in France during WWII (with 2 young American citizens, my aunt and uncle) because she couldn't prove her legal status to return to the US.
So when Trump and the other (mostly Republican) nativists begin fulminating about following the rules and immigrants who are the "worst" citizens in their countries of origin, it's my belief that they probably don't know their own family histories. We need to recognize the huge value that immigrants add to our society and stop all this nonsense.
Here's the thing, when I dig into their history, it seems that all of these new arrivals had major problems with their immigration paperwork at one time or another. That is to say, they were to some degree undocumented and might have been deported under the regime favored by Trump. My maternal grandmother was actually stranded in France during WWII (with 2 young American citizens, my aunt and uncle) because she couldn't prove her legal status to return to the US.
So when Trump and the other (mostly Republican) nativists begin fulminating about following the rules and immigrants who are the "worst" citizens in their countries of origin, it's my belief that they probably don't know their own family histories. We need to recognize the huge value that immigrants add to our society and stop all this nonsense.
14
As a Black lawyer, (born in worse poverty than the Ferguson thugs running around looting stores in $200 sneakers who left home to find my way and worked my way through college and law school) blessed to be an American citizen a volunteer in the Black community, I tell parents about their responsibility to raise and be accountable for their children because what the children are doing reflects on all of us.
Mr. Tobar appears to ignore the responsibility of Latinos entering the USA illegally, having border babies or using human traffickers to sneak their children into this country. For some reason that's our problem now.
Nada Mr. Tobar. Nada.
Why are Latino parents placing children in danger? Why are Latino parents entering the United States illegally multiple times and attempting to use their children as human shields from prosecution and accountability under the law?
Those are the questions that need answers.
Mr. Tobar appears to ignore the responsibility of Latinos entering the USA illegally, having border babies or using human traffickers to sneak their children into this country. For some reason that's our problem now.
Nada Mr. Tobar. Nada.
Why are Latino parents placing children in danger? Why are Latino parents entering the United States illegally multiple times and attempting to use their children as human shields from prosecution and accountability under the law?
Those are the questions that need answers.
68
A family I know immigrated illegally to this country from El Salvador in the early 1980s when the father was murdered. (This summer Pope Francis officially declared the father, who worked with Oscar Romero, a martyr.)
The mother and her young children lived in the basement of a "sanctuary" church for many months. 30+ years later, the family members remain prominent and valued members of the parish, including the grandchildren. Eventually they were able to become U.S. citizens but, had they waited to become legal immigrants, it is very likely that none would have survived.
There was no other option for this family. Incidentally, the U.S. Government, which gave money and arms to the murdering El Salvadorean government, has blood on its hands.
The mother and her young children lived in the basement of a "sanctuary" church for many months. 30+ years later, the family members remain prominent and valued members of the parish, including the grandchildren. Eventually they were able to become U.S. citizens but, had they waited to become legal immigrants, it is very likely that none would have survived.
There was no other option for this family. Incidentally, the U.S. Government, which gave money and arms to the murdering El Salvadorean government, has blood on its hands.
22
If you want to debate immigration policy moving forward, that's fine; reasonable people can differ on what is appropriate.
The pressing question is what we do with those who are here now, which is 11 million people. Mr. Trump proposes to deport them all including children who were born here and who are by existing law US citizens.
That, to me, seems cruel and needlessly expensive. It would require a police state going from door to door rounding up everyone whose immigration papers are not in order, many of whom have been here for years and who are rooted not in their country of origin but here. To expel them now would be to render many of them practically stateless.
It seems to me to be far simpler and far more practical to allow those who are here to stay and to do so with the sanction of the law. 11 million out of a total population of 315 million isn't overwhelming and the reality is that we've already absorbed them.
What we do with immigration going forward is, as I said, something worthy of debate. A mass expulsion, the size of which hasn't been seen in the Western world since the end of World War 2, isn't the answer.
The pressing question is what we do with those who are here now, which is 11 million people. Mr. Trump proposes to deport them all including children who were born here and who are by existing law US citizens.
That, to me, seems cruel and needlessly expensive. It would require a police state going from door to door rounding up everyone whose immigration papers are not in order, many of whom have been here for years and who are rooted not in their country of origin but here. To expel them now would be to render many of them practically stateless.
It seems to me to be far simpler and far more practical to allow those who are here to stay and to do so with the sanction of the law. 11 million out of a total population of 315 million isn't overwhelming and the reality is that we've already absorbed them.
What we do with immigration going forward is, as I said, something worthy of debate. A mass expulsion, the size of which hasn't been seen in the Western world since the end of World War 2, isn't the answer.
9
Does anyone think it might be time to stop blming the immigrants that come here illegally? These people primarily want to better themselves and provide a future for their families.
Illegal immigration can be blamed on the individuals and companies that hire these people because they can reduce labor costs by not complying with tax, labor, minimum wage, and workplace safety laws. It's hard to complain about working conditions and wages when your other option is deportation.
I will propose a simple law that will reduce illegal immigration plus not require spending enormous amounts of money on some rediculous wall.
Require all employers to utilize e-verify. Make the penalty for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant 1 year in prison and a non-negotiable $10,000 fine. Reward any illegal that notifies the government that he has been hired without the e-verify check a green card for turning in his employer plus 10 percent of the fine. Tne CEO would personally have to serve the jail time and pay the fine along with the responsible managers (designated felons). End of Illegal immigration.
Of course a whole bunch of Americans would be in jail or owe the government a whole lot of money and produce would triple in cost. Nannies and cleaning people would be more expensive and harder to get.
One other question about the deportation plans, What would happen if the countries you want to send these people back to say no to their return? With 11 million, I believe that is possible.
Illegal immigration can be blamed on the individuals and companies that hire these people because they can reduce labor costs by not complying with tax, labor, minimum wage, and workplace safety laws. It's hard to complain about working conditions and wages when your other option is deportation.
I will propose a simple law that will reduce illegal immigration plus not require spending enormous amounts of money on some rediculous wall.
Require all employers to utilize e-verify. Make the penalty for knowingly hiring an illegal immigrant 1 year in prison and a non-negotiable $10,000 fine. Reward any illegal that notifies the government that he has been hired without the e-verify check a green card for turning in his employer plus 10 percent of the fine. Tne CEO would personally have to serve the jail time and pay the fine along with the responsible managers (designated felons). End of Illegal immigration.
Of course a whole bunch of Americans would be in jail or owe the government a whole lot of money and produce would triple in cost. Nannies and cleaning people would be more expensive and harder to get.
One other question about the deportation plans, What would happen if the countries you want to send these people back to say no to their return? With 11 million, I believe that is possible.
1
Disappointing photo. Everyone already knows what Trump looks like. I was hoping they would show the pinata.
Trumps hyperbole is as real as a ghost. Of course, ghosts are scary to kids, too.
1
Mr. Tobar,
Thank you for your op-ed.
As a Black man in America I am always seeking to understand the Latino perspective because there is no credible relationship between the Black and Latino community.
Some of the worst racism I have experienced in my lifetime happens when I am around Latinos who openly mock Black people as lazy and stupid (in Spanish). As a Black attorney with two college degrees and a home of my own, I contradict that myth.
Here is my question that nobody who supports open borders and amnesty for anyone entering the USA from the border with Mexico will answer. Maybe you can help:
The Black communities, falling into worse poverty and disrepair as undocumented illegals enter the USA and receive the already scarce public assistance funds and government entitlements--what are they to do?
Is it fair to grant in-state college tuition and Pell Grants to undocumented illegals over Black children or poor Whites?
How many people should enter the United States before our government places SOME kind of limit on illegal immigration (like the rest of the civilized world does)?
As Americans, can we even mention or discuss illegal immigration?
As it stands now, as a Black man, I am banned from discussing law, fairness or the rights of the people in my community who are suffering as the fortunes of undocumented illegals supplant us into the lowest minority in this country. Explain why that's fair.
Thank you for your op-ed.
As a Black man in America I am always seeking to understand the Latino perspective because there is no credible relationship between the Black and Latino community.
Some of the worst racism I have experienced in my lifetime happens when I am around Latinos who openly mock Black people as lazy and stupid (in Spanish). As a Black attorney with two college degrees and a home of my own, I contradict that myth.
Here is my question that nobody who supports open borders and amnesty for anyone entering the USA from the border with Mexico will answer. Maybe you can help:
The Black communities, falling into worse poverty and disrepair as undocumented illegals enter the USA and receive the already scarce public assistance funds and government entitlements--what are they to do?
Is it fair to grant in-state college tuition and Pell Grants to undocumented illegals over Black children or poor Whites?
How many people should enter the United States before our government places SOME kind of limit on illegal immigration (like the rest of the civilized world does)?
As Americans, can we even mention or discuss illegal immigration?
As it stands now, as a Black man, I am banned from discussing law, fairness or the rights of the people in my community who are suffering as the fortunes of undocumented illegals supplant us into the lowest minority in this country. Explain why that's fair.
315
Nobody can discuss the urgent need for global population stability, and the role of competitive population growth for control of land in the evolution and persistence of war.
5
Dude, we don't care. We went to "good" high schools, and "good" colleges, and anything we ever did on anyone else's behalf was pretty much just an entry in our college applications and/or curriculum vitae. We never really cared about black folk; we just perceived (correctly) that acting like we cared would help us socially and professionally. That means that we never really cared about the efficacy of the programs that we started or participated in; it's not like we'll be around in a decade or two when it turns out that we only made things worse.
As for amnesty and de facto open borders...on top of the economic and political benefits to various entities whose well-being is very important to us personally and financially (e.g. Monsanto, the Democratic National Committee), defending these policies lets us call other people racist. It's just win-win-win-win-win.
You're certainly right about the destruction of wages in skilled and unskilled labor markets - the Office of Management and Budget agrees, and says that we won't get back to current, already-depressed levels until 2024.
Believe it or not, we congratulate ourselves for doing this.
As for amnesty and de facto open borders...on top of the economic and political benefits to various entities whose well-being is very important to us personally and financially (e.g. Monsanto, the Democratic National Committee), defending these policies lets us call other people racist. It's just win-win-win-win-win.
You're certainly right about the destruction of wages in skilled and unskilled labor markets - the Office of Management and Budget agrees, and says that we won't get back to current, already-depressed levels until 2024.
Believe it or not, we congratulate ourselves for doing this.
2
Solving this problem does not require discussion. America has a right to maintain a border and keep illegals out. Gobblygook about perpetual war has nothing to do with it.
European countries have negotiated numbers of immigrants who can enter their countries absent refugee/emergency situations.
What are we waiting for?
European countries have negotiated numbers of immigrants who can enter their countries absent refugee/emergency situations.
What are we waiting for?
23
Please, please, Latino-Americans, vote in 2016 and vote against the Republicans. They are all like Donald Trump inside. Some of them just know better not to blare it aloud.
11
Republicans want illegals here because it encourages their friends in big business to higher cheaper labor and the democrats won't do anything about them because they want their votes, they've given so much already that they don't want to alienate them now. Better to alienate those who were actually born here or who went through the legal chanels to get here. So which party is better?
1
Please STOP lumping LEGAL and ILLEGAL immigrants together. It took my relatives more than 10 years to wait and thousands of dollars in application fees, time and more time and effort to come to this country. Maybe they should have come to Mexico first and then cross the border. But then again, the Mexico government would have deported them back in a flash.
123
Donald Trump badly miscalculates the "support" he has from the Latino/Latina community. But then he miscalculates almost everything including his idea that we are all listening with bated breath for him to rattle off more of his "accomplishments." What the hell is he so afraid of?
5
Trump certainly has a way with the Latin community. I'd venture to guess that we haven't had a single presidential candidate in the last 20 years that resonates quite the same as Donald Trump among Latinos. So, to Trump I say, good luck with that whole being a "shoo-in for Hispanic support." I'm sure referring to the entire Latino immigrant population as "rapists" will be forgotten by the general election, right?
6
Nor did Trump say that. But, if you actually believe what you said, you are underinformed. And there are thousands like you, who do not understand what Trump said, and the validity thereof, as they have only the liberal media, and will vote against him.
Donald Trump is telling the truth, illegal immigrant criminals are coming across out Southern Border and committing terrible crimes here against our citizens daily, anyone who does not believe that, just look at the illegal immigrants in our prison system, both State and Federal? Look at the SCAAP Funding for your County, City and State? Those Sanctuary Counties, Cities and States receive the most taxpayer dollars! Our elected officials are not doing their jobs concerning illegal immigration and the more they ignore the problem, the worse it will be! If the children of illegal immigrants have a problem with our laws, talk to their parents, they are the ones who ignored our laws and the whole family have to pay the price. To those who talk about our immigration laws, I say to them, which laws do you want enforced?
54
This op-ed is really racist. As usual, Times people can never put issues in front of race. Do I think Trump is a racist? No. Trump is just telling us what is wrong with immigration, black, white or brown.
77
Some time ago I read a comment from a Hispanic author who said that "you can say anything you want, anything, even that you are a cannibal but the minute you criticize Israel people campaign to boycott you, take away awards you have won, get you fired...." I noticed this same writer gleefully applauding the losses Trump has faced as a backlash. This includes NYC Mayor Deblasio who promised to cut any city contracts with Trump. This is the same man who pals around with Al Sharpton whose hate speech helped incite racial mob violence including the Freddy's Fashion Mart massacre which killed 7 young Hispanics. I have no love for Trump and would never vote for him for President but I can't help but see the hypocrisy that Trump has been punished greatly for criticism that would be applauded by the same people if said about Israel/Israelis. People should have the right to criticize illegal immigration without a huge backlash just like they should be allowed to criticize Israel, Affirmative Action, etc. It is interesting that the same people who loudly proclaim solidarity with individuals facing a backlash for derogatory comments about Israel or even Jews are the first to clamp down on criticism of immigration policy, Affirmative Action, Islam, etc. This should be discussed.
33
There is a difference between people who immigrate by following the law v. those who break the law and are here illegally. Unfortunately, Mr. Tobar, like too many other "progressives," is unable or unwilling to appreciate the difference. The Donald is a blowhard not worthy of the media's (or our) attention, but the issue of legal v. illegal immigration is a legitimate one to address.
87
The reason many people don't find the difference between legal and illegal Latino immigrants very meaningful is because the primary difference between them is desperation -- that is, did they have wealth and status and education in their home country, or not?
The unaccompanied children sneaking into this country came from Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras. They did not come from that evil leftist country Nicaragua, whose government we tried to overthrow and replace with a conservative, property-respecting government like those of Honduras or El Salvador (where things got so bad, with gangs as well as poverty, that children were sent alone to be safer in a foreign country whose language they did not speak.
Those kids are in a way our chickens coming home to roost. We liked governments in that area that favored local elites and our property interests over the development of the country's human resources. So these neglected people sneak into our country (and into Mexico) because their own governments do not waste resources on their welfare or their safety.
Those kids are in a way our chickens coming home to roost. We liked governments in that area that favored local elites and our property interests over the development of the country's human resources. So these neglected people sneak into our country (and into Mexico) because their own governments do not waste resources on their welfare or their safety.
14
The world is suffering a refugee crisis, and the southern border of the US is our version of the southmost islands of Greece. People are fleeing violence and hopelessness, and understandably, they flee to a place where their children might grow up without rape or the pressure to join a gang. And with the chance to get an education and a job. If we were in their place, we'd do the same.
Incidently, why are these stories always about Mexico? Mexico has its own refugees from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, many of whom are passing through on their way to the US. I guess The Donald wants to keep the story simple.
Americans are entitled to worry about their border, but as these children say, they are not entitled to demonize an entire phenomenon they (choose to) know nothing about
Incidently, why are these stories always about Mexico? Mexico has its own refugees from El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, many of whom are passing through on their way to the US. I guess The Donald wants to keep the story simple.
Americans are entitled to worry about their border, but as these children say, they are not entitled to demonize an entire phenomenon they (choose to) know nothing about
13
Refugees are supposed to seek sanctuary in the first safe country they land in. THAT IS MEXICO. We would be legally correct to deport all these central Americans to Mexico and tell them they much claim asylum they. What we get are asylum shoppers and we should not let them get away with that. Deport them to Mexico where they should claim asylum
5
Adverse possession is a legal concept in our law and always has been. It says that if someone moves onto your property that you are not using and treats it well, and you know about this and do nothing to assert ownership, and the situation continues for years, then that person gets the right to stay and you cant kick them out. We let the illegals sneak in and used them for years as cheap labor while giving them the shaft in various ways. I think some of them earned citizenship by adverse possession, as it were.
This is a part of our law in which fairness and common sense trump absolute property rights.
This is a part of our law in which fairness and common sense trump absolute property rights.
14
Adverse possession does not work against a sovereign (e.g.: the government) and never has. Anywhere. Ever.
Otherwise, great comment!
Otherwise, great comment!
2
FTFY:
"...Ever since he began his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination with a vicious screed against Mexican [ILLEGAL] immigrants, Donald J. Trump has become a figure of dread and comic-book meanness to the Latino community..."
Article is 'pathetic'...as in Aristotelian pathos/emotion-laced rhetoric.
"...Ever since he began his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination with a vicious screed against Mexican [ILLEGAL] immigrants, Donald J. Trump has become a figure of dread and comic-book meanness to the Latino community..."
Article is 'pathetic'...as in Aristotelian pathos/emotion-laced rhetoric.
17
It's not just the children. And it's not just Donald Trump. A grown up adult Mexican American friend quipped to me: All you have to do is say something disparaging about Mexicans and you jump to the top of the polls. Trump's popularity is the real scare. One suspects the folks who love him so much have no idea how American businesses like agriculture would fall apart without immigrant labor, how prices would rise. We exploit the undocumented for our own benefit.
One suspects there are more rapists and criminals among Trump supporters, statistically speaking, than there are among the hardworking people who cross a border in an attempt to provide for their families.
One suspects there are more rapists and criminals among Trump supporters, statistically speaking, than there are among the hardworking people who cross a border in an attempt to provide for their families.
8
If only Trump were filled with candy. He isn't. He's filled with egotism, hate, and a lot of latent insecurity.
No tasty treats inside that shell.
No tasty treats inside that shell.
6
Disappointing photo. I was hoping they would show the pinata.
8
Christians are taught to take the foreigner in and treat him like one of their own. It is surprising to find that most of the anti-immigrant rhetoric is coming from people who claim to be Christians.
15
The whining from gringos living on stolen Mexican land, California, New Mexico, Arizona and Texas, is laughable.
12
It was bought and paid for. Read up.
2
It's almost as funny as Mexicans laying claims to US lands while refusing to give back lands they stole from Aztecs and Nahuatl.
4
Thank you for this -- and for your wonderful novel The Barbarian Gardens. The finest piece of fiction I've read with an undocumented immigrant as the protagonist, and a full multidimensional human being. Highly recommended reading for anyone, unlike Trump, with an open heart and mind.
1
Sorry -- that's The Barbarian Nurseries, not Gardens.
2
In Colorado we have always had a grand Latino population. If I see a pickup truck with two or three Mexican men I know they are on their way to do some work for someone. If I see a pickup truck with two or three rednecks in it I know they are on their way to do some mischief.
There is one truth that Latinos in the U.S. can bank on, Trump is not the only republican who feels the way he does, he might be the only one who can voice those thought, is all. The republican party is not your friend.
Maybe your fiend, not your friend.
There is one truth that Latinos in the U.S. can bank on, Trump is not the only republican who feels the way he does, he might be the only one who can voice those thought, is all. The republican party is not your friend.
Maybe your fiend, not your friend.
23
Who elected Mr. Tobar to speak for the entire Latino community? I know I didn't! Yet, by using the pronoun "we", that is what he is presuming to do, and by posting this piece, the 'Times' is implying that an ethnic group is all thinking the same way about the subject, which is as wrong, and as racist, as anything Mr. Trump said.
55
One ethnic group? Hispanics are a group of people of different ethnicities and races who share a common language. "Hispanic" is not one race or ethnicity. And yes, this article is embarrassing and insulting to Hispanics or Latinos that do not share a Mexican culture or who are law-abiding educated citizens.
If 10-year-old Damaris doesn't understand what The Donald is saying, not to worry. I don't either. Not a single word.
www.endthemadnessnow.org
www.endthemadnessnow.org
3
They better be scared of Scott Walker too.
12
American citizens are “scared” of Latino children. Many of them came here illegally and others were born here of two illegal parents. Those whose parents illegally entered America just to have a baby who is a US citizen are using those babies as a reason for them not to be deported and it is working. They are what we call “anchor babies”. They gain citizenship through our outdated “Birthright” laws. The mantra for those who support this practice is: “We shouldn’t separate families”. Most of us who disagree with this practice, that would be the majority of citizens of our country, realize we are being abused and it is tearing our country apart. James Dean, the legendary actor, said it best in the old 1955 movie, “Rebel Without a Cause”. It is time we started acting like Americans and began standing up for our rights. This practice must be stopped. If it takes an amendment to our constitution so be it. Get it done. Very few countries offer birthright citizenship and many have repealed it within the past 20 years because of the problems we are experiencing here. Donald Trump has it right. His immigration policy is just what we need to help make America great again.
50
I the quest to provide cover and support for a far left agenda, the NY Times has finally gone off the deep end. This is just plain silly. Donald Trump is scaring Latino children? Sheesh.
And all of those Central American parents--setting their children off on unaccompanied journeys to the American border...what are we to think of them? Perhaps if we had a President Trump, they wouldn't be tempted to ship them northward so quickly.
And all of those Central American parents--setting their children off on unaccompanied journeys to the American border...what are we to think of them? Perhaps if we had a President Trump, they wouldn't be tempted to ship them northward so quickly.
52
If they had access to more intelligent analysis they would understand Obama is the poison,Trump is the cure.
20
So James, do you have any facts whatsoever to back that up? Please keep in mind that the nation has bounced back extremely well from the Bush recession under Pres. Obama's administration, that we have had no major new wars, that more people have health care coverage than ever before, and that pretty much everyone is better off than they were in 2007. Also keep in mind Trump has been a failed businessman (now owning less in assets than when his father gave him the business 25 years ago) and a loud reality TV star and nothing else.
So back up your claim or make it clear it's totally without merit.
So back up your claim or make it clear it's totally without merit.
1
If you were more intelligent, you would trace this back to Mr. Reagan who provided amnesty and citizenship to illegals, to the two Bushes and Clinton who did nothing to stem the tide. Calling Obama poisonous shows your colors, which I guess is white.
There is no easy way to fix this problem. Strict enforcement of labor laws requiring proof of citizenship or valid legal immigrant visa would help.
There is no easy way to fix this problem. Strict enforcement of labor laws requiring proof of citizenship or valid legal immigrant visa would help.
1
Cure for what?
Sanity?
Jeez.....
Sanity?
Jeez.....
2
Bravo for revealing how Trump's vicious verbal attacks on Mexican immigrants hurts children. The issue is not whether people come to the US with official documents or not. Rather it is the hateful lies that Trump spews about all Mexicans.
94
Copy, you support illegal aliens at the expense of people such as my wife who payed thousands and spent years obtaining a visa. Yep, your full of logic.
The issue is whether people commit criminal acts by sneaking into the country.
Children caught in the middle of all this will eventually ask their parents, “Why is this happening?” and one way or another the parents must admit to their children, “Because we broke the law and entered this country illegally.-that’s why.” I hope that becomes a valuable life lesson for everyone! Don’t skirt the system and don’t break the law- and you wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with! Actions-Consequences- Actions-Consequences how many times need I repeat it?
167
heartless ideas don't make us a better people ... this is now becoming more of a human rights issue rather than an immigration issue ... no one chooses to break the law to enter this country, they choose a better life and choose to escape the violence and poverty that is inescapable in their countries of origin ... because of the mess that the US government created in Latin America
3
That conversation is never going to happen. As long as the Hector Tobar's of the world can sell the lie that they're just being picked on, and Obama can strive to alter the law by fiat to give them unearned citizenship, this train will continue down the tracks.
Living the Lie is the swan song of our age.
Living the Lie is the swan song of our age.
1
you manage to overlook the bravery and fortitude it takes to get here and make a life - hoping to see their children have a better future. these are incredibly hard-working people, mostly socially conservative. republicans must be essentially racist because it would take just a modicum of christian compassion to embrace and have the support of these "illegal" immigrants.
it's shameful to discount the contribution of the primarily latin immigrant underclass that benefits all americans: democrats, republicans, etc.
it's shameful to discount the contribution of the primarily latin immigrant underclass that benefits all americans: democrats, republicans, etc.
I first met a Mexican family when I went to school in Southern California. I played baseball in a recreational league, and became friends with a fellow outfielder who invited me to his home for dinner. His parents spoke very little English, although Mark, a first generation American, spoke it perfectly and was a fellow student at UC Irvine. I've never felt so welcomed and so kindly treated by strangers in my life.
Mark's father was a foreman on a strawberry farm and his mother cleaned houses (for cash) in Irvine. They brought out their best for their sweaty guest (me). I spoke a little Spanish, enough to convey my appreciation, and I spent many evenings with them after that, and when I had an emergency appendectomy, it was Mark's mother who fussed over me afterward as if I were her own child.
I have great respect for those who traveled far, lost much, and came to America to make a better lives for their families. I never asked why they didn't come "legally", but I more than understood their desire to leave the poverty of their village and the lack of public education to bring their children to the land of milk and honey. After all, my ancestors did the same thing for their families, generations before the gates closed to immigrants seeking a better life. Trump's grandparents did the same - too bad his narcissism prevents him from empathizing with folks like his own grandfather.
Mark's father was a foreman on a strawberry farm and his mother cleaned houses (for cash) in Irvine. They brought out their best for their sweaty guest (me). I spoke a little Spanish, enough to convey my appreciation, and I spent many evenings with them after that, and when I had an emergency appendectomy, it was Mark's mother who fussed over me afterward as if I were her own child.
I have great respect for those who traveled far, lost much, and came to America to make a better lives for their families. I never asked why they didn't come "legally", but I more than understood their desire to leave the poverty of their village and the lack of public education to bring their children to the land of milk and honey. After all, my ancestors did the same thing for their families, generations before the gates closed to immigrants seeking a better life. Trump's grandparents did the same - too bad his narcissism prevents him from empathizing with folks like his own grandfather.
84
This generation has been granted citizenship. The question is how we proceed, and no your ancestors did not enter illegally. They went thru a border and were documents and applied for citizenship.
Thank you. This comment is kind and humane, as well as accurate about the history of U.S. immigration law.
Maybe Latino parents can also explain to their children how the racist elites of Central America created conditions so untenable for their poor populations (who happen to be of indigenous American origin for the most part, while the elites are overwhelmingly of European descent) that illegal immigration to the U.S. became the only way to cope.
They could also explain why they seem to be holding the U.S. responsible for their situation instead of demanding that the U.S. government, for example, hold Central American governments responsible for their criminal an racist acts against their populations. (and yes, I am aware of the U.S.'s interventions in these countries on behalf of our business elites)
They could also explain why they seem to be holding the U.S. responsible for their situation instead of demanding that the U.S. government, for example, hold Central American governments responsible for their criminal an racist acts against their populations. (and yes, I am aware of the U.S.'s interventions in these countries on behalf of our business elites)
32
Our interventions in Central America--the Contra terrorists, the overthrow of legitimate governments, military invasions, economic blockades and exploitation, etc--have contributed greatly to the conditions that now afflict Central Americans. Had it not been for our actions and our support of the racist eiles that do our bidding there, the people of the region would lead better lives today.
There are so many contradictions. Trump has the support of people who say we must follow the law, and if that is true millions of people need to be deported. However, he also says send their children, who are American citizens by constitutional law out of the country, too. Now the same people who say follow the law are stumped. When the law suits them, fine, and when it doesn't, just do something that is explicitly in contradiction of our constitution
It's really not about law. We know that. It's about hating Hispanics.
There is also the meanness involved. If you want to talk law, fine. But labeling all Hispanic immigrants as rapists or criminals is just wrong.
Actually, it's probably good this is all coming out now. The Republicans have just sabotaged themselves from getting a larger percentage of votes next election and for a long time to come.
It's really not about law. We know that. It's about hating Hispanics.
There is also the meanness involved. If you want to talk law, fine. But labeling all Hispanic immigrants as rapists or criminals is just wrong.
Actually, it's probably good this is all coming out now. The Republicans have just sabotaged themselves from getting a larger percentage of votes next election and for a long time to come.
10
What is wrong with the people of a given nation deciding which and how many foreigners can enter and under what conditions? The US is no different than any other nation in the Western Hemisphere. These nations all share histories of European conquest. There's no reason the US alone among nations should be compelled to turn a blind eye to illegal immigration. No other country does. Ignoring the problem has just made it worse. Something has gone very wrong when foreign nationals freely parade and protest daring citizens to try to send them home.
53
Agree! Had Mexico had a strong illegal immigration policy and enforced it the1800s Texas would still be part of Mexico.
Overlooked in debates about immigration and enforcing the laws, is the huge incentive that immigrants have to move to the USA and other wealthier developed countries, rather than remaining in their own countries where they face far poorer prospects to lead safe and fulfilled lives.
Lax gun laws in the US, and trade policies that exacerbate criminality and wealth imbalances in Mexico, and for the majority of the populations in all countries, are actually counter productive in regards to the incentive to immigrate.
If the US shared a border with India, China, or Africa, the conversation would be more focused on people hailing from those environs.
The issue is the disparity of wealth among developed and undeveloped countries.
That having been said, I do not support nor believe the USA or any country, should be required to grant automatic citizenship simply for being born in the US.
This is the great reward that incentivizes people to break the law, risking their own safety and that of their children. It is a policy that invites population shifts, there's no reason the USA or any country is obligated to acquiesce.
We apply 1st world ethics, to 3rd world desperation, and wonder why we're getting no where closer to normalized relations with our neighbors?
What's wrong with these people who are risking their lives for a better future? Nothing. What's wrong, is with the civil climate of their countries of origin, and our rapacious pursuit of their wealth therein.
Lax gun laws in the US, and trade policies that exacerbate criminality and wealth imbalances in Mexico, and for the majority of the populations in all countries, are actually counter productive in regards to the incentive to immigrate.
If the US shared a border with India, China, or Africa, the conversation would be more focused on people hailing from those environs.
The issue is the disparity of wealth among developed and undeveloped countries.
That having been said, I do not support nor believe the USA or any country, should be required to grant automatic citizenship simply for being born in the US.
This is the great reward that incentivizes people to break the law, risking their own safety and that of their children. It is a policy that invites population shifts, there's no reason the USA or any country is obligated to acquiesce.
We apply 1st world ethics, to 3rd world desperation, and wonder why we're getting no where closer to normalized relations with our neighbors?
What's wrong with these people who are risking their lives for a better future? Nothing. What's wrong, is with the civil climate of their countries of origin, and our rapacious pursuit of their wealth therein.
16
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.
People need not only to speak up but to vote and remove them from office or getting in to office.
People need not only to speak up but to vote and remove them from office or getting in to office.
9
Come to think of it, despite the despicable nature of the Donald, it's good that he's imparted that valuable and utterly true lesson, "Be on guard, because there are people out there who might harm you", or really, there are people who will harm you if they get the chance. That's in all societies, all nations, races, cultures, religions, etc., the most dangerous thing facing humans is humans usually. Usually the person most likely to do you grievous harm is someone you know, not some distant shouting twit like Trump.
And I think it's important not to try to pacify children by saying, "Monsters are really just myth", because they are not. Humans are the monsters, there's nothing worse than us on the planet by now, but there are plenty around. In the last month I've read of a "man" who executed his entire family including small children, of another who stabbed his girlfriend to death on a city street while yelling Bible verses, and of another who faked a fire, shot a firefighter, then charged out with an automatic rifle to do battle with police in suburban Staten Island. These were monsters, make no mistake, and it's good to know they're out there.
Trump's not that kind of monster, but if he creates the sort of cult of personality that made Hitler strong, he could become a far worse kind. And we should fear these things, not brush them off as fairy tales.
And I think it's important not to try to pacify children by saying, "Monsters are really just myth", because they are not. Humans are the monsters, there's nothing worse than us on the planet by now, but there are plenty around. In the last month I've read of a "man" who executed his entire family including small children, of another who stabbed his girlfriend to death on a city street while yelling Bible verses, and of another who faked a fire, shot a firefighter, then charged out with an automatic rifle to do battle with police in suburban Staten Island. These were monsters, make no mistake, and it's good to know they're out there.
Trump's not that kind of monster, but if he creates the sort of cult of personality that made Hitler strong, he could become a far worse kind. And we should fear these things, not brush them off as fairy tales.
11
I suspect when future historians debate the ultimate reason the Republican Party turned to dust, it will not be the adoption of the ignorant voters to the party of aspiration, but by ignoring the aspirational Latin American vote.
1
An interesting piece Mr. Tobar, but why does no one ever call out the hypocrisy of Donald Trump who has built his real estate empire on the backs of undocumented workers. It isn't Americans who tend the grounds or change the sheets or polish the brass in those huge letters proclaiming TRUMP on the side of his buildings. Under the table labor has built those buildings and Donald Trump has become wealthy exploiting them.
Write a piece on that. Someone needs to call it out.
Write a piece on that. Someone needs to call it out.
18
I'm a white person of German extraction (whatever that means). I was born & raised in the US as were my parents. Why is it that I don't have to prove that my parents came here "legally"? Enough said.
4
Everyone should be concerned about the hate speech coming from Donald Trump. Some of his ideas seem to be recycled from the Third Reich. Round up eleven million people from their homes, jobs and schools and forcibly transport them somehow where? To detention camps? And then what? I have stopped laughing at this madman's rantings.
22
When republicans speak of making America great again they become racist code words. their America is somehow lily white as if our country was not founded on the backs of races from around the world. We always prided ourselves on being a nation of immigrants. Perhaps that ideal never truly existed as shown by our persecution of every race that ever came here or stood in the way of those who considered themselves to be the powers that be at the time. After all in the Southwest Native Americans and Mexicans were here first only to be pushed aside as the white immigrants claimed their land.
To vilify is the first step of the racist for you need to make an enemy first of those you are about to persecute.
To vilify is the first step of the racist for you need to make an enemy first of those you are about to persecute.
8
Yes. The US swindled Mexico out of mist of the Southwest and California. What about reparations for Mexicans? The immigrants are reclaiming their lands
The donald is a bogeyman. Since he hasn't learned compassion and kindness in this life, in his next one, may he find himself in the desert some where in the southwest without food or water after the coyote he paid $5000 to dumped him.
4
The original intention of the 14th Amendment was to ensure that Native Americans and black slaves could not be deprived of their citizenship. If the authors of the 14th could have possibly imagined a day would come when women fly in from around the world, as the recent Chinese ring uncovered in California last year, and mexican women cross the border to give birth so as to endow their babies as 'anchor' children with citizenship they would have added provisions to make these children non-citizens.
41
One of the amendment's authors is on record saying he did not intend it to apply to the children of foreign nationals. The meaning of the term "under the jurisdiction" of the United States used in the amendment is debatable. Are children born on U.S. soil to foreign actually under the jurisdiction of the United States? Supposed a child born to tourists while they were in the United States returned with his parents to their home country at the end of their visit. Would he or she have to pay U.S. taxes the rest of his life Could he be charged with treason if the country in which he lived went to war with the United States? Some people think the Supreme Court should rule on the issue.
2
And yet, in 1830 -- long before the 14th Amendment -- we had a Supreme Court decision that said: "Nothing is better settled at the common law than the doctrine that the children even of aliens born in a country while the parents are resident there under the protection of the government and owing a temporary allegiance thereto are subjects by birth." (In the case of Inglis v. Trustees of Sailor's Snug Harbor, 28 U.S. 99, where the Supreme Court resolved complicated questions of how citizenship had been derived during the Revolutionary War. The court found that the jus soli is so consistent in American Law as to automatically grant American citizenship to children born in New York City between the Declaration of Independence and the Landing at Kip's Bay in 1776, but not to children born in New York during the British occupation that followed.
Amendments to the Constitution are not incorporated lightly. We do have an anchor baby issue, but does anyone running for POTUS honestly believe that he or she loves America and reveres the Constitution but is going to change it? Do these people even know how a law is made much less an amendment?
2
Deportation seldom separates U.S. born children from parents who are unauthorized immigrants. Most of the children rejoin their parents after deportation proceedings are complete. However, Donald Trump's immigration platform would put an end to the problem. At present, the United States' "jus soli" birthright citizenship policy grants automatic citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil as well as to children born abroad to a U.S. parent. Trump would change this to a "jus sanguinis" birthright citizens policy under which only children born to a U.S. citizen would be granted automatic citizenship. This is the standard birthright citizenship policy among developed nations. While it would not be retroactive, the switch would quickly would put an end to the problem Héctor Tobar describes.
30
I'm Latino, I'm not scared and I'm not angry. In fact, I'm joyous of Mr. Trump's ascent. Why? Because my family did things right (we are all legal citizens) and played by the rules. In fact, I know many educated 'Latinos' who support Mr. Trump. Maybe we should tell this Mexican children that if they pay their dues and go to school like my parents and their parents, they will have much luck in the future.
191
Amen to that. Any right thinking American, either native born or on a path to legal citizenship can agree with you. It is not racist to oppose the people that are here illegally. I'm proud of the people that have gone through the process legally, through sacrifice and hard work
That is the foundation of America.
That is the foundation of America.
9
I'm proud of families like yours that immigrate here the right way, through sacrifice and hard work. That is the foundation of America. How insulted you and all the other people that did they same must feel. I know I would.
1
If you know many, they're Cuban-Americans ... and they came here legally only because of special immigration laws applying only to Cubans.
7
Illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America is a PROBLEM. Obama takes no action to enforce our immigration laws, but rewrites them in his office. The last President we had to do something about illegal immigration was Dwight Eisenhower. He recognized that they took jobs away from American and with so many American coming home after the war, he ordered a mass deportation of illegal aliens so that there would be jobs for those returning,
No other President has cared enough for American workers to follow in his footsteps and like Eisenhower deport illegal aliens. People say it would cost billions. It costs billions now just to have them in the country. No matter the cost in the long run it would be cheaper to deport them all and then enforce our immigration laws.
People who talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform are living in Fairyland. The last 2000 page bill we had was Obamacare. Look at all the holes and unintended consequences it had. We don't need another 2000 Page bill. Immigration reform must be in manageable pieces that can be thoroughly discussed and whose pitfalls can be clearly seen.
No immigrant that is in the country illegally should ever be granted citizenship. There has to be a cut-off period - say 10 years. DACA should be ended. One rule - no exception. End chain migration and Birthright citizenship. Birth tourism should be made illegal and all those who got US citizenship should have it stripped from them.
Our immigration laws must be enforced.
No other President has cared enough for American workers to follow in his footsteps and like Eisenhower deport illegal aliens. People say it would cost billions. It costs billions now just to have them in the country. No matter the cost in the long run it would be cheaper to deport them all and then enforce our immigration laws.
People who talk about Comprehensive Immigration Reform are living in Fairyland. The last 2000 page bill we had was Obamacare. Look at all the holes and unintended consequences it had. We don't need another 2000 Page bill. Immigration reform must be in manageable pieces that can be thoroughly discussed and whose pitfalls can be clearly seen.
No immigrant that is in the country illegally should ever be granted citizenship. There has to be a cut-off period - say 10 years. DACA should be ended. One rule - no exception. End chain migration and Birthright citizenship. Birth tourism should be made illegal and all those who got US citizenship should have it stripped from them.
Our immigration laws must be enforced.
30
I am an adult WASP, and I am afraid of Trump! Beyond angry, what is he?
226
25% of the GOP base.
4
As a second generation American, though one of north European descent, I look forward to the day when we can cherish all of our immigrant Americans regardless of their points of origin. Living in a college town that draws students from all over the world, I find warmth and charm in the diversity of faces I see daily.
When my grandparents came from their various countries, there was no long wait to enter. They simply declared at Ellis Island that they planned to become citizens.
I realize that times have changed and that we need to know just who is coming in now, but I wonder how many of the "haters" would be admitted if they had to apply today. Are they the extraordinary types that they say are the only ones who should be allowed in now? I doubt it.
I wish Mr. Trump would just go back to his island for rich people and leave the rest of us alone. And I hope that children like Damaris don't feel that he speaks for all of white America.
When my grandparents came from their various countries, there was no long wait to enter. They simply declared at Ellis Island that they planned to become citizens.
I realize that times have changed and that we need to know just who is coming in now, but I wonder how many of the "haters" would be admitted if they had to apply today. Are they the extraordinary types that they say are the only ones who should be allowed in now? I doubt it.
I wish Mr. Trump would just go back to his island for rich people and leave the rest of us alone. And I hope that children like Damaris don't feel that he speaks for all of white America.
37
Paula, when your grandparents and mine came to America the country was not a full blown social welfare state. That makes a huge difference.
8
God forbid the country enforces its immigration laws. Also the reference to the Weimer Republic is pathetic.
80
I'm afraid Mr. Tobar didn't get the memo. The Donald, in between diatribes denouncing an entire people, has proclaimed that Latinos will vote for him. I assume that women will also support him in large numbers, given the fact that he likes them so well that he has married three of them (so far).
It has become increasingly clear that, in pursuit of this clown, we have all taken a trip down the rabbit hole, or through the looking glass. Just ahead is the Red Queen shouting, off with their heads, but not until after they vote for the Donald!
It has become increasingly clear that, in pursuit of this clown, we have all taken a trip down the rabbit hole, or through the looking glass. Just ahead is the Red Queen shouting, off with their heads, but not until after they vote for the Donald!
14
All of the Republican 2016 Presidential candidates political policy proscriptions and prescriptions regarding immigration involving Latino aka Mexicans should scare Latino adults and children. Nothing new. Romney suggested self-deportation while McCain wanted more of a fence.
Latino, like Anglo, has nothing to do with race, color or national origin. Nor any combination of those factors. Having a Spanish language and cultural heritage is not limited nor defined by any of those factors. Latinos, like Anglos, can be of any race, color or national origin. Before America won a war against Mexico much of America including California used to be part Mexico.
About 2/3rds of the American Latino native and immigrant population is Mexican. And the majority of those Mexicans are garifuna (black and native), mestizo (white and native), mulatto (white and black), Native American and African American instead of white European. They do not look like Trump, Walker, Bush, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Huckabee, Graham, Perry, Paul, Kasich, etc..
Nor do these Latinos look like the white Cuban Americans Rafael Edward Cruz nor Marco Antonio Rubio. American Latinos look like Columba Bush and her kids with John Ellis Bush. American Latinos look like Mexican President Vicente Guerrero, a garifuna, who abolished slavery in Mexico in 1828. Instead of scaring themselves with images of Trump, try a reassuring depiction of Zapata, Guerrero or Cuauhtémoc.
Latino, like Anglo, has nothing to do with race, color or national origin. Nor any combination of those factors. Having a Spanish language and cultural heritage is not limited nor defined by any of those factors. Latinos, like Anglos, can be of any race, color or national origin. Before America won a war against Mexico much of America including California used to be part Mexico.
About 2/3rds of the American Latino native and immigrant population is Mexican. And the majority of those Mexicans are garifuna (black and native), mestizo (white and native), mulatto (white and black), Native American and African American instead of white European. They do not look like Trump, Walker, Bush, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Huckabee, Graham, Perry, Paul, Kasich, etc..
Nor do these Latinos look like the white Cuban Americans Rafael Edward Cruz nor Marco Antonio Rubio. American Latinos look like Columba Bush and her kids with John Ellis Bush. American Latinos look like Mexican President Vicente Guerrero, a garifuna, who abolished slavery in Mexico in 1828. Instead of scaring themselves with images of Trump, try a reassuring depiction of Zapata, Guerrero or Cuauhtémoc.
5
Frankly, the fact that there are American politicians who want to look the other way while millions of illegal aliens break the law by being in this country is disgusting. This is second only to the lack of enforcement of existing immigration laws with regard to businesses that employ illegal aliens. Deportation and an expanded legal guest-worker program should be the only approach considered.
74
The candy that falls out of The Donald piñata will be sour.
4
The piñata will be empty.
6
It's full of hot air, the piñata.
2
Yes, some people are hateful. Please immigrate via the formal procedure, as 1,000,000+ people do every year.
88
If we make laws we should uphold them. Each and every man and woman that have come here illegally knew what they were doing. Time here does not change the fact that they are illegal aliens in a country they don't have a legal right to be in. Every real heroin outlet in WA and OR are run by Mexicans. I know and it's a fact... If they want to be here they should go home, fill out the paper work like all the rest of the people who want to live here and wait. If someone murders someone and ten years later they get caught we don't just give them amnesty.
66
Interesting comparison - illegal immigration and murder. Since self-evidently illegal immigration is not as bad as murder, and since murder is the only crime with no statute of limitations, your comparison implies that there should be a statute of limitations for illegal immigration. In other words, once a person has lived here long enough, even illegally, they should be allowed to stay.
Fine with me.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
Fine with me.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
4
What bunk. If anything, legal Latino residents of the United States should be applauding Trump's plan to close the borders and forcibly deport illegal aliens. More jobs will be available for legal residents, and less tax money will be spent on providing unending social services for illegal aliens. The scare tactics of Tobar and like minded proponents of illegal immigration reveal their agenda, which is to promote completely open borders and the flooding of America with illegals from Central and South America. There goes our country.
131
This is so obvious, and yet the Democrats, afraid of doing anything that might offend their Hispanic constituency, put their own political ambition above the welfare of the country.
12
If Latino children are in the US illegally they should be scared of more than Donald Trump. Does that make sense?
36
Donald may be the villain but how is raising these kids to see law breaking as inconsequential good for them or the country?
96
You make some broad assumptions there, cnnnc.
What proof do you have the parents 'teach them law breaking is inconsequential'?
I suspect, none; save your own uninformed inferences that conveniently support your political views.
What proof do you have the parents 'teach them law breaking is inconsequential'?
I suspect, none; save your own uninformed inferences that conveniently support your political views.
5
Note that Trump is not the first politician to be turned into a piñata. Perhaps the most notorious piñata character is Carlos Salinas de Gortari, president of Mexico from 1988 to 1994, who has been blamed by much of the public for selling the country.
4
Sending children across the border without their parents has to be stopped. No entry and turn them around at the border.
98
For every complex problem there is a simple answer, given by a simpleton, that will solve no problem.
8
Did you say the same about all the "boat children" who arrived from southeast Asia or is it just the Mexicans that you're concerned about?
7
Here's what especially bothers me about Trump's ugly words: that his crazy talk will trigger one of our many crazies to go out Hispanic hunting with an automatic weapon. Or, not necessarily a crazy, but perhaps a group of intoxicated young men spoiling for trouble. Inciting hate crimes IS a crime.
25
I have memories of the time when i was seven years old and I could hear from our radio excited screeching in a language I could not understand. I later found that these were demagogic rants of an individual who went bankrupt in his other pursuits and who wanted to make a career in politics. His message was that certain ethnic groups were to be blamed for all misfortunes of his country. He did not have any constructive ideas. Unfortunately his hate message resonated well with the voters and he was elected to power. Any guesses?
30
The Donald may be a myth that ultimately will not harm Damiris. Would that it were the case for the large minority to whom he appeals.
3
Trump reminds me of President Kirchner of Argentina. To her, all problems are caused by the USA and Wall Street. To Trump, all problems are caused by Mexicans and the poor.
139
Tener miedo.
Tenga mucho miedo!
(Be afraid. Be very afraid!)
Tenga mucho miedo!
(Be afraid. Be very afraid!)
6
Is this really what we are going to use as a tactic to prevent reform of a broken immigration system? Tell the children they are going to be forcefully separated from their parents? Instill fear and hostility in people that shouldn't even be here?
20
The point is that Trump is a blunt instrument. He prides himself on make grand, sweeping generalizations about whole groups of people and makes no reservations about insulting them. Immigration reform, however, requires nuance because there ARE harsh realities in deporting people. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, necessarily, but it can't be done in the flippant callous manner in which Trump likes to do and say things. It will also require cooperation from the Mexican to control immigration going forward. Trump has essentially poisoned the well before his would-be Presidency has even begun by making repeated references to a conspiracy to flood U.S. streets with criminals. This is just ONE of many examples demonstrating that Trump is not fit for diplomacy with foreign nations. During his Presidency, Trump will not be able to simply fire other world leaders who disagree with him. Whole races of people are not going to simply accept insults from our highest office without political consequences. Our country's financial problems (unlike Trump's personal financial problems, evidently) cannot be solved through repeated bankruptcy applications. Big as it is, Trump is in WAY over his head and should be looking for an exit from the political arena.
1
Maybe Latino parents can say something like this:
Hundreds of millions of people all around the world would love to come to the United States. There are laws that are supposed to decide who can come and who can't.
Many people came here outside the laws because they wanted a better life.
Some people want them to be able to stay here. And some, like Mr Trump, do not.
Someday, when you are an adult, you will be able to vote, to help decide if everyone who wants to come here should be allowed to, or if there should be laws about who can come and stay and who can't.
Hundreds of millions of people all around the world would love to come to the United States. There are laws that are supposed to decide who can come and who can't.
Many people came here outside the laws because they wanted a better life.
Some people want them to be able to stay here. And some, like Mr Trump, do not.
Someday, when you are an adult, you will be able to vote, to help decide if everyone who wants to come here should be allowed to, or if there should be laws about who can come and stay and who can't.
51
Exactly the reason why citizenship via birthright should be abolished.
8
Huh? There already are laws - they just aren't enforced by the self serving political class
2
I think it fair to point out that the US economy has been profiting hugely from immigrant labor for as long as I can remember.
Everyone who has emigrated here, from whatever Nation, whether friend or foe, has been taken advantage of by businessmen of every stripe.
I dare say also that most of those employers have profited hugely from treating those workers as though they have lesser rights in their businesses and in many other pursuits as well.
Everyone who has emigrated here, from whatever Nation, whether friend or foe, has been taken advantage of by businessmen of every stripe.
I dare say also that most of those employers have profited hugely from treating those workers as though they have lesser rights in their businesses and in many other pursuits as well.
183
We're not talking about immigrant labor; we're talking about undocumented immigrant labor, which is reimbursed at rates below that which it is legal and/or acceptable to pay citizens. Undocumented labor destroys wage rates in skilled and unskilled labor markets.
Which definitely helps some folks. I guess that's what you were talking about.
Which definitely helps some folks. I guess that's what you were talking about.
31
Tell the construction and restaurant workers how they've benefited from having their wages and benefits undercut by illegal immigrant workers.
12
Yes, employers of illegal immigrants do benefit from paying them less and giving them fewer benefits.
20
I find Trump a clown, however, are these children's parents not also teaching them that we are a nation with borders and federal laws that determine, in an orderly manner,who may come to this country, how and when? That as good people, we must honor a country's laws? That breaking laws is a bad thing to do, and that there will be punishment for it? If so, this article sure doesn't reflect these realities for every single human that lives within the U.S.
115
Perhaps the parents should also teach them about the Alien Exclusion Act of 1924 that barred ALL asians, and a significant number of southern Europeans from entering this country. That too was a law. It was a stain on our history, just like our current immigration laws. Unjust laws need to be changed. Let's teach them about our xenophobic history. Then let's teach how a democracy can change an unjust law.
14
There is not one person here without the proper legal requirements who is not here working for one of Trump and the republican party's primary base. They work for sub-wages here because they still beat the wages back home and the bosses who hire them would much rather pay below scale.
Those are the facts, not the red meat lies served up by the republicans.
Those are the facts, not the red meat lies served up by the republicans.
7
Yup, the Pilgrims also did not teach their children these very same lessons, so their descendants should not be that surprised. Methinks Mr. Trump is a Massasoit of our times... blaming newcomers or embracing newcomers as politically needed, but always personally profiting from them.
5
All children, not just Hispanic, should be scared of The Donald. Adults too. That is, scared if he ever got to the White House. He won't. But I hope he make it to the convention, where millions may witness the self-destruction of what is left of the Grand Old Party.
213
An industry exists in California, covered in the New York Times, which imports wealthy pregnant Asian woman on tourist visas, houses them during their pregnancy, and takes them to an American hospital to have their children, often at government expense. family benefits by having the child at a U.S. hospital which is usually far better than the hospitals in their countries, as well as U.S. citizenship for the child. Often, the plan is that the child will grow up, go to school in the U.S., then apply for citizenship for the parents.
It seems that every compassionate impulse in our immigration policy, from birthright citizenship to refugee exemptions, is ruthlessly exploited by foreigners. Most of the time, they simply want a better life for themselves and their families. Unfortunately, they are getting this better life by using your tax money.
It seems that every compassionate impulse in our immigration policy, from birthright citizenship to refugee exemptions, is ruthlessly exploited by foreigners. Most of the time, they simply want a better life for themselves and their families. Unfortunately, they are getting this better life by using your tax money.
98
The exploitation runs in both directions. Much of our agriculture, and industry, couldn't operate without immigrant labor. If such laborers are illegals, and a few million are, they have no rights at all. They pay into SS and Medicare, but are ineligible for benefits. They pay taxes. They work for minimum wages. Yes, they are here illegally, and we have for decades and decades chosen to look the other way, because we need to exploit their low-cost labor. Do you have any indignation left for the exploiters (that is, we, ourselves) of such workers?
23
All human beings on Earth should be afraid, very afraid of Donald Trump.
But they should be even more afraid of Jeb "Iraq and ISIS is all Hillary's fault" Bush, the candidate who claims to believe in the wisdom and the success of "Shock and Awe", "Mission Accomplished" and "The Surge."
But they should be even more afraid of Jeb "Iraq and ISIS is all Hillary's fault" Bush, the candidate who claims to believe in the wisdom and the success of "Shock and Awe", "Mission Accomplished" and "The Surge."
17