People should not have to work hard to achieve their personal goals?
Those that put in the extra effort make those that don't look bad and that is somehow unfair?
Advancement should be based on racial or gender criteria, not results?
We are in global competition with countries that do not believe that tripe.
Those that put in the extra effort make those that don't look bad and that is somehow unfair?
Advancement should be based on racial or gender criteria, not results?
We are in global competition with countries that do not believe that tripe.
5
Mr. Bezos's aura of plausible deniability is somewhat reminiscent of the Reagan model: a self-styled benevolent chief executive purporting to hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil while those to whom he has given marching orders engage in deplorable excess only a wink and a nod away.
The depth and scope of The Times's reporting seem to indicate a disingenuous reaction on his part, so the readers (and customers) would be well served if the subject is revisited after a reasonable interval -- say, "Amazon: One Year Later" -- to see whether the "Moi?" response was mere lip service or a genuine recognition of the need to infuse a soulless hive for units of production with massive doses of humanity.
As writer George Saunders has said, "Developing our sympathetic compassion is not only possible but the only reason for us to be here on earth."
The depth and scope of The Times's reporting seem to indicate a disingenuous reaction on his part, so the readers (and customers) would be well served if the subject is revisited after a reasonable interval -- say, "Amazon: One Year Later" -- to see whether the "Moi?" response was mere lip service or a genuine recognition of the need to infuse a soulless hive for units of production with massive doses of humanity.
As writer George Saunders has said, "Developing our sympathetic compassion is not only possible but the only reason for us to be here on earth."
6
Ah. This piece makes me rethink cancelling my subscription. The Amazon-bashing elsewhere in the paper did not sit well with me because it suggested agenda rather than investigation. I am all for a better work culture, having suffered a (what I thought was a) deplorable work culture at a financial services firm for too many years before I quit, but it is important to understand that capitalism is built on choice, not (ordained or voted) appropriateness. As long as Amazon is not doing anything illegal, I say let the (product, stock and job) markets decide whether its work culture needs to change and by how much.
2
For several decades, researchers have been hard at work (pardon the pun) examining the relationship between workplace organization and the long-term impacts on the workforce. The New York Times article about the culture of the workplace at Amazon and this current article should be seen in the context of long-term health outcomes. To learn more about the research, and how it directly relates to this article, just click on the following link. http://unhealthywork.org/
Donald Goldmacher, M.D.
Donald Goldmacher, M.D.
2
Non sense. B-schools have two models. The grade-the-curve kind and the team work kind. While they both produce good and bad leaders, only sociopaths enjoy stabbing your classmates so you can prosper
4
The cultural shift in the U.S. is shifting to a more liberal, inclusive and less 'money obsessed'. It is so apparent from several articles by the NY Times in recent time. This does not bode well, in general, for Corporate America and the Republican Party. But, it bodes well for the American people. I say, bring it on!
3
Since books on the Kindle have rather large number of typos and misspellings -- rennasance?? -- I sent Jeff Bezos an e-mail, offering my services as a proofreader. I have not heard Back from him... lol
3
I feel the need to iterate that those commenters who say a) no one is making them work there, and b) this is nothing new:
Why this is important is that it is a trend that won't go away, and it isn't just going to be Amazon or some other giant doing this -- it is the world your children will live in. Why this is different: after the incredible abuse of workers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, workers unionized in order to influence working conditions and benefits, and elected representatives actually passed laws prohibiting inhumane practices.
Now, we see how unions have been eviscerated, and our lawmakers, when they aren't doing nothing, pass employment laws that favor, guess who?, businesses.
Businesses are very well protected in the State of California, where most employment is "at-will", and no laws prohibit businesses from making employees sign agreements at the time of hire that effectively make it impossible to bring legal action against employer abuse. The populace is propagandized against government and union "interference" by a willing and willful media, who, after all, are businesses themselves with a vested interest.
This is the result of the unfettered capitalism that the libertarians and Randians worship. You can blame both a) the money (see: Citizens United) and b) the people who listen to the money when they vote.
Why this is important is that it is a trend that won't go away, and it isn't just going to be Amazon or some other giant doing this -- it is the world your children will live in. Why this is different: after the incredible abuse of workers in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, workers unionized in order to influence working conditions and benefits, and elected representatives actually passed laws prohibiting inhumane practices.
Now, we see how unions have been eviscerated, and our lawmakers, when they aren't doing nothing, pass employment laws that favor, guess who?, businesses.
Businesses are very well protected in the State of California, where most employment is "at-will", and no laws prohibit businesses from making employees sign agreements at the time of hire that effectively make it impossible to bring legal action against employer abuse. The populace is propagandized against government and union "interference" by a willing and willful media, who, after all, are businesses themselves with a vested interest.
This is the result of the unfettered capitalism that the libertarians and Randians worship. You can blame both a) the money (see: Citizens United) and b) the people who listen to the money when they vote.
9
It is certain that our entire corporate culture is toxic overall. And that many employers and the cultures they promulgate are to blame. However, "white collar" (or "white blouse") executives who join and stay at these companies are culpable as well -- they have sought out this culture because their values -- power, high salaries, equity, prestige -- are fulfilled by it. These same top-pedigree employees could certainly get a job somewhere else, but would have to trade some of the above, and many apparently aren't willing to do that. That is as stark and sobering a fact as any.
2
Most of the comments refer to work at a corporation, however the same marathon goes on in academics. I entered a doctoral program at Columbia despite my gentlemens C grade point average in college, through a back door that I stumbled into. About 15 people were chosen at the outset, knowing only a few would finish with the PhD. I watched several smart students working 14 hour days every day, not pass the qualifying exam after 2 to 3 years of work. However, those who made it then tried to get into the most famous persons lab they could, and the competition in my post doctoral lab was unbelievable. The professor Michael Levine, expected 80 hours a week, and their was rollcall, if you were not at the bench when he checked, a yellow post it was left. He was a dictator, and even when I got incredibly lucky, my 40 hours a week made him furious.
3
I don't find this state of affairs surprising at all. This is the natural consequence of unbridled capitalism and competition with a winner take all mentality on top of it. This is what happens when morality and social goals are allowed to be determined by the vagaries of the free market, rather than having rules that regulate the market based upon the goals of society. This is result of greed being elevated to the status of a noble virtue, and making the accumulation wealth a venerated activity.
What I suggest that normal people who do not wish to live like this do is to make a list of priorities. Based on this, one can allocate time as per one's goals and desires. If this rules out a job in Amazon or Netflix or some other hot shot company, so be it - unless it is a question of survival and there are no other jobs available. We live only once, and when I come to the end of my earthly journey, I will definitely not be thinking about the hours I spent making some tycoon richer.
What I suggest that normal people who do not wish to live like this do is to make a list of priorities. Based on this, one can allocate time as per one's goals and desires. If this rules out a job in Amazon or Netflix or some other hot shot company, so be it - unless it is a question of survival and there are no other jobs available. We live only once, and when I come to the end of my earthly journey, I will definitely not be thinking about the hours I spent making some tycoon richer.
5
It is actually quite refreshing to see that one American company, still acts like the companies that built this country.
It’s a competitive world; other countries are already at our doorstep, hoping to knock us down to 3rd or 4th place.
Yet a few, very few companies still lead the way, making us the top of this world.
It seems that here in the USA, when you demand the best of your staff, you get Amazon, or a load of complainers.
For those of you looking for a nice, comfy, ‘work when you please’, take off when you want, do the minimum and get paid, type of work environment, the local library is hiring, just I am sure you will complain about the low pay.
For those of us who like to work hard, like the rewards of work, and do no mind doing our best time and time again, we need more companies like Amazon, where our best is demanded, and we are rewarded for it.
It’s a competitive world; other countries are already at our doorstep, hoping to knock us down to 3rd or 4th place.
Yet a few, very few companies still lead the way, making us the top of this world.
It seems that here in the USA, when you demand the best of your staff, you get Amazon, or a load of complainers.
For those of you looking for a nice, comfy, ‘work when you please’, take off when you want, do the minimum and get paid, type of work environment, the local library is hiring, just I am sure you will complain about the low pay.
For those of us who like to work hard, like the rewards of work, and do no mind doing our best time and time again, we need more companies like Amazon, where our best is demanded, and we are rewarded for it.
1
Agreed but the slackers always counter that the aggressive, dedicated workers "don't have a life" and other tripe.
My life seems a lot richer in options and experiences than the 40-hour criwd in my curcle, that's for sure. They get in a lot of ESPN and Dancing with the Stars, though.
My life seems a lot richer in options and experiences than the 40-hour criwd in my curcle, that's for sure. They get in a lot of ESPN and Dancing with the Stars, though.
1
I've always hated working for people and always will. My own business is designed for a person like myself by a person like myself - me. I worked Monday and today..taking the rest of the month off since I meant my profit quota for the month.
I would argue the answer isn't more unions but more sole proprietorships yet I think that takes a cookie cutter approach to the issue just as the answer that we need more unions does as well. I don't know, I sort of think we have it sort of good. We have the option to join a union for the most part (the option of taking up a particular job), the option not to join a union, and the option of starting your own business. I just wish more people realized there are other options out there. In my idealistic utopian world, everyone works part time, 25 hours a week; goes to school part time as well. Automation has taken most jobs, we fund education up to second PhDs and encourage everyone to get two PhDs as if it was a high school diploma. Utopian indeed..but we can all dream can't we?
I would argue the answer isn't more unions but more sole proprietorships yet I think that takes a cookie cutter approach to the issue just as the answer that we need more unions does as well. I don't know, I sort of think we have it sort of good. We have the option to join a union for the most part (the option of taking up a particular job), the option not to join a union, and the option of starting your own business. I just wish more people realized there are other options out there. In my idealistic utopian world, everyone works part time, 25 hours a week; goes to school part time as well. Automation has taken most jobs, we fund education up to second PhDs and encourage everyone to get two PhDs as if it was a high school diploma. Utopian indeed..but we can all dream can't we?
3
We're doing it to ourselves. We as consumers demand cheaper and faster, and we as investors demand better performing portfolios. American society tends to emphasize the immediate, short-term quantitative metric without really doing the deeper, more complex qualitative analysis. We're getting goods faster and cheaper, and we have a better stock market. But we've also created permanent employment instability and toxic workplaces.
Over the past year, I've decided to try my hand at freelancing and working two or three part-time jobs by choice. My wife has benefits so I'm fortunate in that respect, but I also work with 'partners' (employers) who offer those benefits should I want or need them down the road. No it's not a steady job, but I have more flexibility, which is what I want. I want to be able to tell an employer to stuff it if I feel like they're trying to impose themselves on me. I think this ought to be the new normal for more of us. Corporate America's created a new world for the American worker. You can't change the framework, but you can find ways to make it work for you. We need to be approach our careers with a more entrepreneurial and service-oriented mindset.
Over the past year, I've decided to try my hand at freelancing and working two or three part-time jobs by choice. My wife has benefits so I'm fortunate in that respect, but I also work with 'partners' (employers) who offer those benefits should I want or need them down the road. No it's not a steady job, but I have more flexibility, which is what I want. I want to be able to tell an employer to stuff it if I feel like they're trying to impose themselves on me. I think this ought to be the new normal for more of us. Corporate America's created a new world for the American worker. You can't change the framework, but you can find ways to make it work for you. We need to be approach our careers with a more entrepreneurial and service-oriented mindset.
3
I worked in a large law firm as an associate for almost 6 years. The partners I worked for frequently worked just as long hours as the associates, but had ultimate responsibility to the clients and reaped the most economic awards. But they paid a huge personal price. I knew within a few years that life was not what I wanted and many associates feel the same way.
2
Investors have been extraordinarily lenient with Amazon. If it were a brick and mortar corp, it would have been bought up, chopped up, and sold for its bits long ago. A 50,000 job "target" is a tiny proportion of the jobs, and wealth, Amazon has displaced. To what end? Bezos is lucky to be a billionaire as it is.
I think this behavior is largely the result of what I call the 'shrinking pie' mentality. This is a sub-rosa understanding that, due to changing demographics, rising inequality, and perhaps a general coursening in the texture of society, the lot of the average American is going to be considerably less pleasant than his counterpart of, say, fifty years ago.
Put more bluntly, for the average citizen the safety of the neighborhood he will be able to afford, the level of the public school system his kids will have access to, and the overall tenor of his day to day existence - all will be inferior relative to what they were not so long ago.
The result is that there is a kind of desperation to be in the upper strata of society, as profiled in these pieces. Not sure what the policy prescriptions are, as it is difficult to legislate human nature (although a more progressive tax system might help somewhat), but I truly think that this 'shrinking pie' mentality is the elephant in the room that no one likes to acknowledge.
Put more bluntly, for the average citizen the safety of the neighborhood he will be able to afford, the level of the public school system his kids will have access to, and the overall tenor of his day to day existence - all will be inferior relative to what they were not so long ago.
The result is that there is a kind of desperation to be in the upper strata of society, as profiled in these pieces. Not sure what the policy prescriptions are, as it is difficult to legislate human nature (although a more progressive tax system might help somewhat), but I truly think that this 'shrinking pie' mentality is the elephant in the room that no one likes to acknowledge.
8
Population control is not a popular topic here, to say the least.
1
First squeeze publishers. That's when I decided Amazon had no place in my world as a consumer choice. Turns out maybe not first, they've had plenty of experience squeezing employees. And here I was thinking Amazon was a top employer. Now it's not even on my list as a consumer.
I offer a macro-socio-economic position on this. Mismanagement of humans as a means to riches is a nearly fascist form of capitalism and a sickness in our culture. It is pervasive, as we all know,and, according to Sinclair, has been around a long time. It has deeply corroded our moral aptitude to the point that the everyday worker accepts, if not expects, abusive behavior as the status quo. The earlier Amazon article boasts the term "Social Darwinism" a few times. Social Darwinism has nothing to do with Darwin's Theory of Evolution, but rather it is a philosophy that early English aristocracy adopted to justify their wealth in face of severe poverty. It was also embraced by the Nazi's to justify the Holocaust. Shouldn't that be a red flag? Anyone? Mr. Trump? Social Darwinism is an impoverishment in terms, and if that is how we refer to our workplaces, as my management does, then, in all our freedom, we are of an imprisoned people. And, so many will shoot back, if you can't take the heat.... I have withstood the heat (and, baptism by fire), as others have, and I still say it is wrong--- it is the sign of moral failure.
6
The "tournament" model will change only when those to rank and reward the competitors select for balanced human beings who work at a sustainable pace and will be profitable over an entire career, rather than encouraging mad competition that results in worn-out workers who make mistakes, run away and flame out - all to the detriment of the bottom line.
Bezos's response to the NYT article only demonstrates how out of touch he is with the monster he created.
Bezos's response to the NYT article only demonstrates how out of touch he is with the monster he created.
1
You can "love" a job -- it will never, EVER love you back. And you'll discover this right around the time you're at the stage of total burnout.
1
Competition makes people, companies, products and the like better. We are going tombs in greater and greater competition with more and more international companies. The "social justice" theory of an easy life, time off for everything, home being more important, gender, sexual, racial equality, easy schooling with ridiculous (to many) majors and courses, evil business, equality in CEO pay, will make for losing. Whether Democrats want weakness or they just want their reelections more than anything, or are just clueless is unknown. But the choice is clear: toughness or easiness. Most humans thrive in competition, are happier succeeding, and desire freedom and independence. But they don't get a choice, the Elites control the U. S.sadly.
Http://www.periodictablet.com
Http://www.periodictablet.com
2
"The only good boss is a dead boss."
---Emanuel (Manie) Feit
---Emanuel (Manie) Feit
wake up! want to rise in anything, school, the arts, athletics, business? the only way to get to the top is hard work, smarts, and some good luck.
if one is not competitive then he or she will loose. It is called darwinism.
If one does not like to work hard, accept mediocrity in yourself.
I now know why I do business with Amazon, they are the best because of hard work and innovation.
There is no "one click" to the top!
if one is not competitive then he or she will loose. It is called darwinism.
If one does not like to work hard, accept mediocrity in yourself.
I now know why I do business with Amazon, they are the best because of hard work and innovation.
There is no "one click" to the top!
1
I don't know what the alternative would be, but there is something about meritocratic systems in which merit correlates very highly with hours that is decidedly not welfare maximizing. Meritocracy produces an arms race of sorts in which people are forced to sacrifice more and more of their lives in order to compete with other individuals who have the same mentality.
2
This practice would disappear overnight if firms had to actually pay their workers overtime. If a firm pays a high salary to an exempt employee (i.e. one who is ineligible for overtime per the department of labor), it has an incentive to wring as many hours as is humanly possible out of that worker, as the marginal hourly rate it is paying will decrease.
On the other hand, compel that firm to fairly compensate for extra hours and it will find an alternative means to get the work done rather than pay time-and-a-half. The "exempt from overtime" rules are archaic and need to be revised.
On the other hand, compel that firm to fairly compensate for extra hours and it will find an alternative means to get the work done rather than pay time-and-a-half. The "exempt from overtime" rules are archaic and need to be revised.
6
There are still plenty of companies where you have reasonable work loads, can work mostly 40 hour weeks, make decent money and have coworkers that are both kind and smart.
I tried the consulting route after school - burnt out quickly and left. I have since been working marketing analytics. I get to do challenging work, learn constantly, develop skills but mostly work 40 hour weeks and earn a low 6 figures.
I know that if I went into one of these super elite firms, I could earn even more, but no thank you. Time is even more important than money. I would rather live more humbly but actually have time for family, friends and hobbies.
I tried the consulting route after school - burnt out quickly and left. I have since been working marketing analytics. I get to do challenging work, learn constantly, develop skills but mostly work 40 hour weeks and earn a low 6 figures.
I know that if I went into one of these super elite firms, I could earn even more, but no thank you. Time is even more important than money. I would rather live more humbly but actually have time for family, friends and hobbies.
5
Several points about brutally long hours and intense competition in the workplace:
1) While there may be Darwinistic selection for energy and endurance, other positive qualities may be selected out (i.e.: creativity/insightfulness, artistry, good judgement, etc...). And value to the group as a whole is not just about ambition.
2) There may be an undesired selection & advantage for those who are skilled at gaming the evaluation system, and for those who are skilled at the negative aspects of politics. Obvious examples are CEO's & managers who rose up through the ranks, made bad decisions that hurt the company, but still raked in huge rewards for themselves.
About the reward structure:
In the case of corporations, the rewards of brutal competition are not fair, since those who reap the rewards -- stockholders, (in most cases) may not be working hard at all for the company. Workers who may not be compensated well at all, are often pushed brutally hard, and their work is turned into profit for stockholders. If wealth/money is representative of work hours. The wealth/money of factory/warehouse/service/minimum wage-slaves at the bottom of the food chain is siphoned and accumulated on Wall Street, accentuating an unequal distribution of wealth.
As a means of promoting capital investment, stocks (in contrast to bonds) are Faustian deal. They are a form of perpetual servitude for a company's workers to owners who often don't contribute long term value to the company.
1) While there may be Darwinistic selection for energy and endurance, other positive qualities may be selected out (i.e.: creativity/insightfulness, artistry, good judgement, etc...). And value to the group as a whole is not just about ambition.
2) There may be an undesired selection & advantage for those who are skilled at gaming the evaluation system, and for those who are skilled at the negative aspects of politics. Obvious examples are CEO's & managers who rose up through the ranks, made bad decisions that hurt the company, but still raked in huge rewards for themselves.
About the reward structure:
In the case of corporations, the rewards of brutal competition are not fair, since those who reap the rewards -- stockholders, (in most cases) may not be working hard at all for the company. Workers who may not be compensated well at all, are often pushed brutally hard, and their work is turned into profit for stockholders. If wealth/money is representative of work hours. The wealth/money of factory/warehouse/service/minimum wage-slaves at the bottom of the food chain is siphoned and accumulated on Wall Street, accentuating an unequal distribution of wealth.
As a means of promoting capital investment, stocks (in contrast to bonds) are Faustian deal. They are a form of perpetual servitude for a company's workers to owners who often don't contribute long term value to the company.
4
The environmet at Amazon is racist, sexist, misogynist and bullying is encouraged. You haven't lived until you have seen an Indian (from India) put down mexicans. In a meeting. I am not sure what kind of work environment this fosters. I think its a great way to weed out talent. Those with talent leave.
9
One might give a college education and a subsequent career second thoughts. I haven't heard the words, "rat race" in a long time. But they seem more appropriate than ever to today's work culture. You climb the ladder, earning increasingly more money, and your earnings more than anything else further embed you into the cutthroat culture. Most of what is bought is symbolic of one's place in the rat race. Near the leader of the pack, then the wheel turns and you're back to the starting point, needing to prove your worth all over again.
Institutional education can be something that goes on the enslave you for life.
If you're someone with some common sense and skills wonderful niches can be carved out, for wonderful lives, the whir of the ratcage far away.
Institutional education can be something that goes on the enslave you for life.
If you're someone with some common sense and skills wonderful niches can be carved out, for wonderful lives, the whir of the ratcage far away.
9
The conditions described in this article describe a genuine spiritual crisis in this country, and I use the word "spiritual" in its broadest sense. Where there is humanity, there will inevitably be commodification of what would otherwise be intangibles; I am not naïve enough to think this is a new phenomenon. But now, with 24-hour shopping available, with technology powerful enough to connect us across continents in seconds at the touch of a button, with international travel commonplace, we humans have found ways to commodify other creatures (Cecil the lion, puppy mill dogs, orcas at Sea World); body parts sold on disreputable websites; sex sold everywhere; cheap goods made with slave and virtually-slave labor; and now, other human beings. I am convinced that Amazon and many other retailers are working many of their employees so hard that the pace of work amounts to commodification of these human beings. These retailers often view people as human doings, and not as human beings. Unless and until Americans give up our greed for instant gratification, for comfort beyond what is healthy for the earth, and for STUFF, STUFF, and more STUFF, we will be complicit in making other human beings into things to be used and discarded. It's why I have for years boycotted Amazon and other retailers known to abuse their workers.
13
I worked at BigLaw. The game changer was when summer associates were given laptops and BlackBerrys. I happily bought my own BlackBerry not realizing that even when I left the office at 2:00 a.m., I was still expected to be readily accessible. When I started sleeping in the cot room as opposed to relieving the nanny, when I was working on vacation instead of snowboarding with my son, I realized it was time to either tank my legal career or my son's childhood. I tanked my career.
Playing Mario Kart with my kid was less opulent but so much more fun. My mortgage payment is called Student Loans. I'll never own real property, but that's okay.
"Working vacations" are, by definition, not vacations.
Cut the digital tether.
Playing Mario Kart with my kid was less opulent but so much more fun. My mortgage payment is called Student Loans. I'll never own real property, but that's okay.
"Working vacations" are, by definition, not vacations.
Cut the digital tether.
23
Two thoughts:
1. A managing partner at a top-tier law firm once remarked to me: "The hallways of this office are littered with broken marriages and dysfunction families." Point to be made: there is no balance. You want to play in this world? Don't expect to have a good home life or well-adjusted (and loved) children.
2. The article alludes to a key point: it is not "best and brightest" to be a backbiting, scheming manipulator who rises to the top by ratting on colleagues and forming alliances like they're in an episode of Big Brother. They may rise to the top, but let's not for a moment confuse that with being the best.
1. A managing partner at a top-tier law firm once remarked to me: "The hallways of this office are littered with broken marriages and dysfunction families." Point to be made: there is no balance. You want to play in this world? Don't expect to have a good home life or well-adjusted (and loved) children.
2. The article alludes to a key point: it is not "best and brightest" to be a backbiting, scheming manipulator who rises to the top by ratting on colleagues and forming alliances like they're in an episode of Big Brother. They may rise to the top, but let's not for a moment confuse that with being the best.
21
These attacks on working hard is laughable to those of us who started our careers in the 60's when we were thrilled to have a good steady job.
4
I, too, entered the working world in the 60's. Read my comment on middle management that I submitted to this article about 30 minutes ago. Also look at Denny's [from Burlington] comment written shortly after yours. I was also happy to have a job. Today i think that an employer owes more than that to the people that put their faith and their energy into making his company work!
1
You mean back in the day when you could get a good paying job just walking down the street?
Mr., you had it easy.
Mr., you had it easy.
1
Just happy to be in the game aye?!? Top athletes in sports that make billions should just work for standard wages right?!? After all, they're making money playing a game!!! How dare they ask for their fair share...
Good stuff Hank
Good stuff Hank
It's the nineteenth century again but with more toys.
7
Seriously!
My chimney sweep has gotten stuck twice already this week. I heard him griping a couple of days ago about working Sundays at age 12.
I told him to cut out that sort of talk, lest I have him arrested.
My chimney sweep has gotten stuck twice already this week. I heard him griping a couple of days ago about working Sundays at age 12.
I told him to cut out that sort of talk, lest I have him arrested.
My wife and I were very upset regarding this "brutal" treatment of Amazon employees. We are going to try not buy items from Amazon until they improve their employee working environment. In fact, we will advice all our friends not to buy from Amazon. We need to BOYCOTT Amazon!
7
Having come from a management position in organization with a strong union, I recall how often we managers used to gripe that the union had a purpose back in the dirty thirties, but had outlived its purpose. After all, most all workers now had vacations and pension plans, and management was now far more humane. (At least it was back in the 1980's when I started in management.) I even remember the days of "quality of work life" projects to improve collaboration as an antidote to the ennui from orders delivered from on high.
But, we see all too clearly today that its the middle, non-unionized staff who bear the brunt of the drive to squeeze out any ounce of compassion within management ranks.
My cohorts and I had it wrong. The humane situation we existed in was not due to the efforts of the executives, but largely the fruit of those hourly workers below who had struggled through strikes to fight arbitrary production line speedups and unsubstantiated firings. Hindsight is always 20/20.
But, we see all too clearly today that its the middle, non-unionized staff who bear the brunt of the drive to squeeze out any ounce of compassion within management ranks.
My cohorts and I had it wrong. The humane situation we existed in was not due to the efforts of the executives, but largely the fruit of those hourly workers below who had struggled through strikes to fight arbitrary production line speedups and unsubstantiated firings. Hindsight is always 20/20.
15
You haven't mentioned newspapers yet. But then this is a newspaper. My husband worked at newspapers most of his life. When he was young, all-nighters happened occasionally. As he matured he became a Managing Editor for 5 newspapers, near by, owned by one company. He routinely worked 60 - 80 hours a week for several years. He was always on call. When a story broke he had to be there. One thing that saved him was that he had managed to take vacations. But dinner at 9 p.m. was pretty routine. When we first met he was a copy editor of the local paper. His shift started at 3 p.m. and went till sometimes 2 a.m. Was he paid what those at Amazon and law firms make? No. Was it easy to hire reporters and copy editors when he was Managing Editor? No. The parent company that owned the newspapers he ran was in the midwest. They had no idea what it cost to live in California. Low wages and long hours were typical in the newsroom. Now, as newspapers go through a huge change into digital format those that are still working worry about being laid off, or having their jobs changed dramatically. My husband retired at 62, completely burned out. It's taken him a year to recover. He now does freelance work and is much happier. So my hat's off to you reporters, editors and managers at the Times! I respect the time and effort you put into your work!
12
The desire to "change the world" has been used to justify the extreme work hours and brutal corporate culture of some of these high tech type companies. I personally don't think expecting someone to work 100 hours a week so someone can wear a mini-computer on their wrist is such a world changing event to justify this. Working those hours to develop a vaccine for Ebola as people are dying by the thousands? Justifiable. Working 100 hours a week so we can have the next iteration of an Apple phone or deliver a doll a few minutes faster? I'm not sure what to say about a society that has accepted this as rational.
17
While you're milking that cow. Think of all the goals that you, yourself, would be willing to work long hours for. Companies have goals too, primarily they're in it for the money, and the people who work long hours for the company's goals may not do it for the money, but for reasons that make as much sense to them as yours do to you.
1
Long hours are expected in the tech field. Especially when there are deadlines / release dates to meet. What else is new? And even in big non tech corporations like P&G or GE, meeting numbers is a sports by itself. The worst part about this story is this anonymous feedback to the boss. It is very detrimental to the work environment in so many ways I can't even begin to tell. Adults should have the courage to give feedback to their peers face to face. In delicate situations, the boss or HR should be involved for a gentle feedback session.
4
This is not a problem to be ameliorated. It is a state of affairs. Stop whining.
2
Slavery was a "state of affairs," too.
Thankfully, some never stopped whining about it.
Thankfully, some never stopped whining about it.
1
"more and more young highly credentialed workers acknowledge that they can’t fulfill their responsibilities as husbands, wives, parents and friends while ascending through their organizations." Yes, indeed, and one might add, as children of aging parents who need care and support, This dehumanization of workers is very like slavery.
7
"The firm and its imitators hired a large class of entry-level associates ... then relentlessly sifted them out over a period of several years, at the end of which only the most brilliant and productive ... became partners."
Not exactly. Brilliance has nothing to do with advancement in corporate law firms, and productivity is measured solely by hours billed. Those who stick around and make partner are inevitably those who best ingratiated themselves with current partners (and look and sound just like them) and billed the longest hours. Neither of those is a measure of the quality of the legal analysis, the cogency of the arguments, or the clarity of the writing that an attorney produces.
When I worked for one of the big firms, it didn't take me long to realize that I couldn't identify more than a handful of equity partners in my office (out of a couple of hundred) who were still married to their first spouse. That environment simply isn't conducive to having outside commitments, like a family. I am very happy not to be in that environment any longer, although I should note that the legal work was some of the most engaging I have been involved with in my career.
Not exactly. Brilliance has nothing to do with advancement in corporate law firms, and productivity is measured solely by hours billed. Those who stick around and make partner are inevitably those who best ingratiated themselves with current partners (and look and sound just like them) and billed the longest hours. Neither of those is a measure of the quality of the legal analysis, the cogency of the arguments, or the clarity of the writing that an attorney produces.
When I worked for one of the big firms, it didn't take me long to realize that I couldn't identify more than a handful of equity partners in my office (out of a couple of hundred) who were still married to their first spouse. That environment simply isn't conducive to having outside commitments, like a family. I am very happy not to be in that environment any longer, although I should note that the legal work was some of the most engaging I have been involved with in my career.
11
If you can identify with only a handful of those that you work with, welcome to the club, it's true with most well run companies. I think that it's important to have allies in any endeavor. Some men don't see their wife and/or family as one of these allies. Men like yourself do, as I am sure, did the guys at work that were your friends. I see friendship, that you have with these allies, along with job competence, as the key to success at a job. I think that living and working with like minded people at a job you love is more important than worrying about long hours!
None of this should be surprising (maybe only to those born post 1990's). As all the protections that workers fought so hard for last century are dismantled and destroyed by those who own this country, we are witnessing the return to a raw, predatory form of capitalism. This is what the return of unbridled competition means. It will eat your children alive. Socially this already feels more conservative than the 1950's. All tech has meant, is a return to the old concept of the "assembly line", except with multiple lines, ratcheting up to ever higher speeds. This will end badly.
13
Fear. That is what motivates these people to work 80 hours and have no life. Fear of impoverishment. I am glad I teach. My work hours are 8:10 to 2:30. I work 181 days and have 184 days off. There is more to life, much more, than having a lot of money. Too bad these people are so misguided they do not know what is important in life.
8
Nobody dares to ask why the alleged victims of workplace abuse did not try to push back.
Were they passive aggressive yes men/women?
Were they too greedy to part with unvested stock options?
Did they understand the concept of dignity of self-respect the same way as the contributors of this thread?
Were they passive aggressive yes men/women?
Were they too greedy to part with unvested stock options?
Did they understand the concept of dignity of self-respect the same way as the contributors of this thread?
Blame The Victims. Great personal philosophy, andrew.
Sadly, the American business CEO now takes his hiring and labor practice cues, post recession, from, who else, the Communist Chinese. And we let it happen through years of allowing politicians talk us into wanting to mirror/compete on the same economic level, even if it meant trading in all of our decades worth of democratic value and self-worth for, what else, ever cheaper, often tainted or low quality goods, salaries of executives who are still not satisfied with seven and eight digit salaries. Starting wars only helped these same pols distract us even longer from figuring out what was and is really going on. They don't care if laborers and office workers are pitted against each other to the point of joblessness, starvation or worse. Too bad to them. Welcome to the new Chinese torture chamber way of conducting American business. It's the latest trend and it will only be getting worse.
7
According to Morningstar, Amazon stock is down $1.32 right now compared with yesterday. It would be interesting to know how their sales volume was/is from August 15th and for the next month. Thanks to their "date" they have it for every second of every day so it should be easy to report. Here is an interesting article from Morningstar that compares Mr. Bezo's management style to one that was a failure 100 years ago. Do not give Amazon one more cent of your hard-earned money.
http://news.morningstar.com/all/ViewNews.aspx?article=/MW/TDJNMW20150817...
http://news.morningstar.com/all/ViewNews.aspx?article=/MW/TDJNMW20150817...
5
The difference I've observed between Amazon employees and those at other elite companies is the attrition rate. Employees burn out there faster in comparison to other companies. Many employees see surviving 2 years at Amazon as a significant milestone. And the financial penalties of not surviving 2 years is that you may have to repay your signing bonus and relocation expenses. White collar Amazonians are well-paid, but the golden handcuffs are affixed at time of hire, and it isn't realistic for many people to simply quit. Argue that's a choice if you like, but it's a choice I hope you never have to make.
15
You wonder why the "master's of the universe" types don't want to give one cent of their money to the 99%? This is why. You have gone through a brutal winnowing processes that required you to be both smarter and more dedicated than 90% of your highly intelligent and motivated colleagues and now you inhabit the rarified air of the C-suite. You make obscene money, but you think that you deserve it because of the "sacrifices" you had to make to get here. No family, no life, stress, always being on. Why would anyone want to give away the rewards of their sacrifice? This is not to say they are right, it is to say the requirements and the incentives are wrong. In Europe, this type of brutal work environment would never be tolerated. There would be strikes and unrest. They even call this system the "Anglo-Saxon way". The question for Americans is do we want to continue with a winner take all system or do we want to disincentivize the darwinian mandate? I doubt we are capable of that because creativity and competitiveness is the true advantage we have over the rest of the world.
14
I don't think that the Darwinian mandate, which a lot of people, men and women, see as the cause of workplace problems, is as important as a Freudian mandate. Which I see as the need for sexual gratification by those who aren't necessarily the pick of the litter. To wit, look at some of the captains of industry, your "masters of the universe", who use their expertise to preach to others [their adoring fans] about how they should act in their company.
Interestingly, this has played out slightly differently in medicine: there is intense competition among medical students for residencies both in the very high compensation specialties that have very long work hours like the surgical subspecialties (neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery), and the highly compensated (but less so than the former) specialties with very reasonable work hours (dermatology, radiation oncology). The difference is that the number of residency slots is limited so there can't be the practice competition among, say, dermatologists to drive down prices, the way there is in law or banking.
4
This is what makes America great - you have a CHOICE of where to work and the associated corporate culture that goes with it.
1
As someone who has worked 55 to 100+ hours through the majority of my career and, at times, in some extremely cruel and abusive work cultures, I can absolutely attest that it was the most profound mistake of my life.
Unless you have a singular focus on work with no family, friends, or outside interests, absolutely nothing is worth giving your life away (along with profoundly affecting those of others close to you) on the hope that a magical carrot is someplace down the road.
Unless you have a singular focus on work with no family, friends, or outside interests, absolutely nothing is worth giving your life away (along with profoundly affecting those of others close to you) on the hope that a magical carrot is someplace down the road.
15
Right. Employers like that will let you kill yourself. You have to ask what's in it for you, because they absolutely don't care. And words are cheap. We need you ... you're a star ... all this will pay off ... you have to pay your dues ... blah blah. Employers ask "what have you done for me lately" and employees should be asking the same question.
I spent a career working in big global ad agencies and just as huge accounts. I loved it! Was it hard work? Yes. Was it stressful? At times but not really if you knew what you were doing. Long hours. Yep.
The payoff is working with super smart people who become lifelong friends and having a lot of fun doing it. Teamwork is crucial. The financial rewards and benefits are as good as you can get.
Bottom line though advertising is a people business. It's selling smart people to smart clients to create brilliant advertising campaigns. As agency don't make "things" for a profit the agency treats its workers very well.
I once asked David Ogilvy what he worried about most? He told me standing at a bank of elevators at 5pm in NYC; I worry that all these people will come back to work in the morning. He ran the whole business worldwide with that attitude. People loved working there and they could hire the best of the best.
The payoff is working with super smart people who become lifelong friends and having a lot of fun doing it. Teamwork is crucial. The financial rewards and benefits are as good as you can get.
Bottom line though advertising is a people business. It's selling smart people to smart clients to create brilliant advertising campaigns. As agency don't make "things" for a profit the agency treats its workers very well.
I once asked David Ogilvy what he worried about most? He told me standing at a bank of elevators at 5pm in NYC; I worry that all these people will come back to work in the morning. He ran the whole business worldwide with that attitude. People loved working there and they could hire the best of the best.
1
I wonder how the workplace described in this and the Amazon article compare with large tech companies in Europe. Both in terms of employee satisfaction and output.
I had a long career at a very large American industrial firm - followed by decades in consulting, finance, and education. I've worked with and for hundreds of individuals from various backgrounds. 'Brutal' and 'brutality' are words I have never heard - or would use to describe workplaces that are devoted to satisfying the organization's mission - whatever it might be.
I did choose to not aim/compete for one of the highest level executive positions, but did rise to senior professional and middle management status - and was able to provide a quality of life for my family - including children's education - much better than my parents were able to support - and that was my 'American dream'.
I did choose to not aim/compete for one of the highest level executive positions, but did rise to senior professional and middle management status - and was able to provide a quality of life for my family - including children's education - much better than my parents were able to support - and that was my 'American dream'.
2
I care enough about work to do a good job but that's about it. I'd rather leave at 5 and hang out with my son then stay in the office selling more widgets. Most of the really "successful" people I know have an unhealthy obsession with work and are relentless. Work is their life. I guess some people find validation in this but not me...after all we are just selling widgets.
10
White Collar workers working horrendous hours and sacrificing their personal lives for the good of the company is not a new phenomena. It was first documented in William H Whyte's " "The Organization Man" which described how white collar workers sacrificed their personal lives and relinquished their souls to serve giant corporations. In the movie , "The man in the gray flannel suit" Gregory Peck turns down a promotion because he does not want to turn out like his boss who sacrificed his life and his family to serve the corporation. If you want to go back further, read "A Christmas Carol" by Charles Dickens: a story about a man who sacrifices everything in his life for business success and almost loses his soul in the bargain. Nothing has changed
12
No mention of the tenure system here?
1
No, because tenure has nothing to do with this.
Teacher tenure was instituted to help protect teachers from arbitrary firings - especially on political grounds, e.g., being a Republican in a Democratic town or vice versa; writing a letter to the editor or otherwise exercising one's right to free speech that rubbed some local poohbah the wrong way; being of the 'wrong' race, religion, sex, etc.; or simply in order to create a nepotism-based job opening for someone's friend or relative.
Teacher tenure was instituted to help protect teachers from arbitrary firings - especially on political grounds, e.g., being a Republican in a Democratic town or vice versa; writing a letter to the editor or otherwise exercising one's right to free speech that rubbed some local poohbah the wrong way; being of the 'wrong' race, religion, sex, etc.; or simply in order to create a nepotism-based job opening for someone's friend or relative.
When I started years ago in public accounting, we used to get over-time pay. With 2 busy seasons, total of 6 months of the year this was a sizable sum added to our base pay. The first busy season starts February, goes through April 15, and second busy season starts August, runs through October 15. In 2008, right after the great recession hit, public accounting firms did away with over-time pay. We now work 80 plus hours a week for six months of the year. Billable hours and chargeability are the metrics of 'purposeful darwinism' in place in my line of work. I have seen people with families being laid off without notice, employees with decades of work under their belt losing jobs if they can't hit chargeability in any one season.
Not only that, large public accounting firms now outsource tax work to India, Philippines and the Caribbean. It costs pennies compared to paying American workers. In 2009 the IRS passed rules requiring disclosure of outsourcing work to 'offshore' companies. However these companies simply bring their workers states-side, house them in cheap southern states and they do the same work here. These workers do not get any benefits, are much cheaper than employing Americans.
Such is the state of dog-eat-dog capitalism, pitting workers against each other, for the sake of efficient markets.
Not only that, large public accounting firms now outsource tax work to India, Philippines and the Caribbean. It costs pennies compared to paying American workers. In 2009 the IRS passed rules requiring disclosure of outsourcing work to 'offshore' companies. However these companies simply bring their workers states-side, house them in cheap southern states and they do the same work here. These workers do not get any benefits, are much cheaper than employing Americans.
Such is the state of dog-eat-dog capitalism, pitting workers against each other, for the sake of efficient markets.
10
If you don't like public accounting then leave. Having worked in HR for my career, public accounting provides you with the skills that other "lesser" firms would die to have and would still pay you well. Same is true for law firms, a miserable environment for both lawyers and the support but they pay well so people put up with it until they are tired of being sick and tired. People have choices in what and how they make things work but if you want lots of money and work life balance that mix may be harder to find.
1
You missed the point Ellen. Why should one have to escape from one exploitative job to another? Point is, in corporate America, worker's health, family and leisure are secondary to the bottom-line. So, to just put up with being tired or worn out till one can escape to the next position defeats the idea of trying to implement any meaningful change in improving rights or workers and our quality of life. 80-hour work-weeks should not be the norm, companies should be required to pay over-time These are done by legislation and regulation.
And, it is HR and management folks like you that extol the idea of 'shut up and sing' which is causing this rat race to the bottom.
'Work-life balance' is corporate-speak that makes us to do only one thing better, and that is work.
And, it is HR and management folks like you that extol the idea of 'shut up and sing' which is causing this rat race to the bottom.
'Work-life balance' is corporate-speak that makes us to do only one thing better, and that is work.
1
Globalization and technology, at a minimum, have caused a lot of this. While Anerica was the only functioning part of the world, it's labor force was treated well. Well now that period is over and so too the reasonable to employment we could expect. I am glad my working days are over.
I'm sure that the competition at the NYT is brutal too.
6
All the talent in the world won't get you a job in one of these hellholes if you don't buy in to the mythology.
8
The "technology bomb" was like the nuclear bomb. Hurry, hurry and create it and do not spend one minute thinking about the social consciences. Add to that the 40+ year war on democracy to deregulate government, gut anti-trust laws and try to destroy the social safety net at every level but for the wealthiest and we get what we have today. A fragmented society, bordering on chaos unless we stop it. No person has ever made it "on their own". It's a fairy tale, like so many others we have been fed by the "masters of the universe" to keep us slaving for them. It is time to wake up and build new models for life, work and business that are sustainable - not destructive as we see today. WE can start by not giving Amazon, or any company that thinks like them including Air B&B and Uber, one cent of OUR hard-earned money. Starve the beast. Then forget unions, that can be corrupted as all organizations with BIG pots of money can, and have worker solidarity in America. The time is NOW!
6
This cutthroat culture exactly mirrors the enormous income inequality and lack of opportunity that exists for most Americans.
Since 2006, I have worked in a few small, creative-related firms here in New York. The level of emotional abuse, and endless excoriating criticism I received was beyond anything I had ever experienced. Even worse, it appeared consistent with similar firms across the industry.
Why? The abuse exists because younger employees and recent grads are willing to endure horrific and toxic work environments under the vague promise that "someday" better positions up the line will open up for them. Therein lies the scam. There will be no openings for those who endure, and work hard, and produce under abusive management. Those plum positions have already been reserved well in advance for those with the correct "pedigree".
Advancement and opportunity in our nation is just a carrot on a stick. And treatment in the workforce, by and large, is all stick, and no carrot.
Since 2006, I have worked in a few small, creative-related firms here in New York. The level of emotional abuse, and endless excoriating criticism I received was beyond anything I had ever experienced. Even worse, it appeared consistent with similar firms across the industry.
Why? The abuse exists because younger employees and recent grads are willing to endure horrific and toxic work environments under the vague promise that "someday" better positions up the line will open up for them. Therein lies the scam. There will be no openings for those who endure, and work hard, and produce under abusive management. Those plum positions have already been reserved well in advance for those with the correct "pedigree".
Advancement and opportunity in our nation is just a carrot on a stick. And treatment in the workforce, by and large, is all stick, and no carrot.
12
Well this Netflix gimmick with its generous maternity leave offer is not a noble attempt of the company to make its staff life better but it's just a competition for better talents so nobody can reject or dismiss this unavoidable competition in each industry.
2
Companies always look for people with the passion for their professions. The passionate individuals are internally driven and they do not feel the hardship which others experience at the same position. They usually are promoted not because of their desires to climb the corporate ladder but because of their passionate engagements which produce results. You can find a few of these people but there really are not too many of them. If you need many more to do the job and you need from your people real creativity, innovations and effective teamwork, better do not try to make the behavior of those top passionate the rule of your organization because others will only feel oppression and their effectiveness will suffer. The art of leadership and management is to blend the variety of your work force in a way that all the people you need can perform at their best.
5
Netflix has it right -- functionally "unlimited" vacation and family leave -- take care of your employees -- they will perform! Big time! Plus, I suspect, virtually every employee has their company laptop nearby during their vacation/family leave time.
3
This article gives great insight into America's bizarre corporate culture. Somehow shareholders and the public have been tricked into accepting that workers at the top of these companies are somehow providing labor worth millions. No individual's LABOR is worth millions.
Meanwhile, the lower and middle ranks of these companies (those providing actual labor and services) are expected to work themselves to exhaustion while the top ranks have endless meetings to "strategize". This happens in corporate America and its increasingly happening in education and healthcare. There seems to be an endless rise in overpaid administrators and executives. We have to push back and say enough is enough.
We have to stop thinking that fast food workers getting paid $15/hour is an attack on other workers and realize that this is not a zero sum game between workers. I, for one, do not believe anyone working 40 hours a week should be living in abject poverty while those at the upper echelons of that same company earn millions upon millions.
Meanwhile, the lower and middle ranks of these companies (those providing actual labor and services) are expected to work themselves to exhaustion while the top ranks have endless meetings to "strategize". This happens in corporate America and its increasingly happening in education and healthcare. There seems to be an endless rise in overpaid administrators and executives. We have to push back and say enough is enough.
We have to stop thinking that fast food workers getting paid $15/hour is an attack on other workers and realize that this is not a zero sum game between workers. I, for one, do not believe anyone working 40 hours a week should be living in abject poverty while those at the upper echelons of that same company earn millions upon millions.
5
For 21 years now I have not shopped for non gasoline or food items on Sunday. (Got the idea from the Germans) My self imposed restriction is not religious driven its, how can I help others be more human towards each others? I want people to connect with friends and family one day a week. (America needs this.)
One has to ask, what is the cost of "brutal competition?" Road rage, shootings, cutting people off with your car?
I've observed people being more productive if a throttle back a bit environment is established. . They do much more accurate on time work if a "we are human" tone is set.
(fyi, I dont shop at groceries stores on Sunday anymore either.....I'm still alive and kicking.)
One has to ask, what is the cost of "brutal competition?" Road rage, shootings, cutting people off with your car?
I've observed people being more productive if a throttle back a bit environment is established. . They do much more accurate on time work if a "we are human" tone is set.
(fyi, I dont shop at groceries stores on Sunday anymore either.....I'm still alive and kicking.)
3
I avoid shopping on holidays. I don't want to be the customer the manager points to and says "see, that's why we need to remain open."
Whether or not the evidence supports the allegations about dysfunctions in the Amazon workplace, Jeff Bezos' letter to his employees, and obviously to the rest of the world after Sunday's NYT article, should probably hang on the wall of every manager or person involved in mediating or softening allegations of that sort.
In my 40 years of evaluating and even writing letters like that for clients, I have never seen a better one, which will have a number of positive effects on the company and for the employees, who, if Bezos is to be believed, will now have the courage to speak up and should negative consequences ensue because of that frankness be justified in claiming workplace retaliation.
Bezos' public statement forces Amazon to put peddle to the wheel to identify and correct dysfunctions, and if the insidious problems alleged to be endemic to Amazon are true, will force it to modify its culture of accepting bad workplace habits that ultimately are likely to result in corporate inefficiencies. Any positive changes also give the workers the right to claim that their input made the difference.
In my 40 years of evaluating and even writing letters like that for clients, I have never seen a better one, which will have a number of positive effects on the company and for the employees, who, if Bezos is to be believed, will now have the courage to speak up and should negative consequences ensue because of that frankness be justified in claiming workplace retaliation.
Bezos' public statement forces Amazon to put peddle to the wheel to identify and correct dysfunctions, and if the insidious problems alleged to be endemic to Amazon are true, will force it to modify its culture of accepting bad workplace habits that ultimately are likely to result in corporate inefficiencies. Any positive changes also give the workers the right to claim that their input made the difference.
1
Competition can stimulate creativity. But too much competition and the attendant stress is obviously a waste of energy.
3
What are people really working on when they stay after hours every night? I have a pretty busy job, but there isnt really anything I can effectively do after 6 pm when most of the other employees have gone home.
3
In tech, there are always deadlines. And often many different teams working on a single project, with different milestones that trigger action by another team etc. Problem with these crazy jobs is that they put ridiculous deadlines and expect the worker bees to work 80 hours to get it done. This model is OK if there are occasional projects that require such efforts. But at many tech companies, it's never ending. Often you're working on multiple projects. Often a new project pops up magically just as you're wrapping up the last one. It never ends. ANd this is not just at amazon or google. The nature of technology is such that you are always in a race to do something. To release a new functionality, to update an existing funcvtionality. To try and invent something that will disrupt the market and give you an immense edge. But even as that edge is gained, someone else is inventing something that gives them the upperhand, so there is no rest for the worker bees. Vicious cycle...
3
Having studied a lot of math in obtaining my engineering degree, I have been fond of using this limit when discussing work/life balance.
If I work 40 hours a week and make 52 grand a year, that's a grand a week earned
If I work 80 hours a week and make 520 grand a year, that's 10 grand a week earned
and so on and so forth, the numbers are not relevant. The relevant question is this: What is your limit? How much money paid would make you hit your limit, which is 24 hours of work a day? And if you're working 24 hours a day, what else is there in life?!?
It's all about limits. People get so caught up in making more and more that they lose sight of the other variables in the equation. A man who makes a billion dollars a day but works 24 hours a day is an idiot by all accounts, unless he plans to quit 2 days later. Obviously these are ridiculous numbers, but unless these lawyers and bankers and amazonians and googlites or whatever have an end game in sight, they are fools for spending 2/3 of the day working and the other 1/3 sleeping. And from my experience of people of this nature, they have no end game indeed. Very few decide they want to do this for 5-10 years and then retire or do something else. Rather, they build ridiculous lifestyles around them that cause them to continue this insane work till their old age. At that point, what's the purpose of all that money when you let life pass you by? I know people making 50K a year that are far more happy than those making 500.
If I work 40 hours a week and make 52 grand a year, that's a grand a week earned
If I work 80 hours a week and make 520 grand a year, that's 10 grand a week earned
and so on and so forth, the numbers are not relevant. The relevant question is this: What is your limit? How much money paid would make you hit your limit, which is 24 hours of work a day? And if you're working 24 hours a day, what else is there in life?!?
It's all about limits. People get so caught up in making more and more that they lose sight of the other variables in the equation. A man who makes a billion dollars a day but works 24 hours a day is an idiot by all accounts, unless he plans to quit 2 days later. Obviously these are ridiculous numbers, but unless these lawyers and bankers and amazonians and googlites or whatever have an end game in sight, they are fools for spending 2/3 of the day working and the other 1/3 sleeping. And from my experience of people of this nature, they have no end game indeed. Very few decide they want to do this for 5-10 years and then retire or do something else. Rather, they build ridiculous lifestyles around them that cause them to continue this insane work till their old age. At that point, what's the purpose of all that money when you let life pass you by? I know people making 50K a year that are far more happy than those making 500.
4
Here's a thought:
If you can't get the work done in 40 hours a week, you're doing something wrong (or you are overloaded and set up to fail).
Any moron can put in more hours. That doesn't mean they are a better or more productive employee. Quite the opposite.
If you can't get the work done in 40 hours a week, you're doing something wrong (or you are overloaded and set up to fail).
Any moron can put in more hours. That doesn't mean they are a better or more productive employee. Quite the opposite.
4
I used to tell my boss who was scheduling projects (providing support to engineers who were remediating hazardous waste sites) to plan on a forty hour week for us chemists. Inevitably things won't work and will have to be re-done, so we'll be working evenings and weekends to catch up. But if you schedule us for those evenings and weekends, I told him, the first time an instrument hiccups and we have to re-run, or we have a bunch of dilutions we have to do, we are now behind for the entire length of the project because there's no way to catch up. He didn't see it that way. When the inevitable happened, and we were working round the clock for the whole project but the engineers were screaming because we were behind all the way, he said to me, "I don't understand what happened."
Subsequently he scheduled us for forty hour weeks, we worked evenings and weekends as needed to catch up after glitches, and the engineers were happy. They never asked him to schedule us any particular way, they just needed to know when to expect data so they could schedule their stuff. He was killing us for nothing.
When you hire professionals who mean to do their jobs, you don't have to push them. They'll push themselves.
Subsequently he scheduled us for forty hour weeks, we worked evenings and weekends as needed to catch up after glitches, and the engineers were happy. They never asked him to schedule us any particular way, they just needed to know when to expect data so they could schedule their stuff. He was killing us for nothing.
When you hire professionals who mean to do their jobs, you don't have to push them. They'll push themselves.
An alternate work ecosystem has been born. It is known as the "benefit company" or "B Corp". At the core of its ethos is a rejection of the principal that profit is all. Both profit and social benefit are to be pursued, in a humane way. Whether this ecosystem will grow or thrive, I don't know. But it has the potential to give the next generation a better way to make a career in the for-profit world.
3
Employees outside of the executive circle are now and always have been disposable commodities. That is why these tournament games will never end. Executives love their circuses too. We workers are not important to the executive class. Even those among us that aspire to that rank aren't important until they arrive.
3
Amazon's culture is being defended by Type A, super-competitive, driven types for whom such an environment is suited. But the workforce is not full of Type A's. The vast majority of workers want to work hard and contribute but also enjoy their families and lives. Unfortunately, many managers and executives are soulless, selfish sociopaths who don't give a second's thought to worker well-being. Amazon may be an extreme case, but misery and abuse abound in America's workplaces.
12
Any business that relies on repeat customers needs to be aware of the consequences of pushing their employees too hard. Inevitably the quality of service and/or goods will go down in the endless pursuit of more profit. When the customer sees the effect on them, they will lose trust in the company, and they will most likely walk away and never come back. I know of a Fortune Fifty firm that has lost a significant amount of business as a result of exactly this dynamic. Now they are "reinventing" themselves, focusing on future products, and hoping that somehow "big data" will save the company. Meanwhile, quality has not returned, and neither have the customers.
6
Don't worry. The Reps will pander to cheap businesses and import yet more H1B visas while the Dems Hispander and bring in yet more unskilled Hispanic. So the entire workforce will look like this!
3
By now it should be clear to anyone that unfettered, unregulated Capitalism is simply not working for anyone except the very minute number at the very very top.
It always leads to: perpetual war, environmental destruction, inequality, poverty.
Regulated capitalism such as we had when this country was at its height, is still a possibility, but a rapidly vanishing one.
The ultra-rich will never be satisfied. They will continue to squeeze the golden goose until they kill it. At which point, we may experience a very ugly ending.
As for myself, I'm opting out as much as possible and more and more each day.
It always leads to: perpetual war, environmental destruction, inequality, poverty.
Regulated capitalism such as we had when this country was at its height, is still a possibility, but a rapidly vanishing one.
The ultra-rich will never be satisfied. They will continue to squeeze the golden goose until they kill it. At which point, we may experience a very ugly ending.
As for myself, I'm opting out as much as possible and more and more each day.
11
I have been an employment lawyer for 30 plus years. I knew the grind as a young attorney (bill 2,000 plus hours) and it killed my young marriage. I worked for the American Dream only to see myself divorced and burnt out because of it. So I quit...at 40.
Since then I've worked as an entrepreneur in the HR field and my only regret is that I didn't start earlier. I built what is known as a "lifestyle business" and focused on reducing my hours, while maintaining my profit, year after year. I never asked any of my employees to ever work more than their 40 hrs., less if they had to.
Here's what I have learned from this journey:
1. It's called work, not jail. I remember one young man coming into my office years ago complaining about the fact he'd suffered discrimination for 3 straight years. When I asked why he's put up with it for so long he hesitated and then sheepishly said "I like the softball team". I kid you not. Fact is, there is something many of these complainers like about their job they are not willing to give up.
2. You are the one in control of your career...not "them".
3. Playing victim never helps you move forward. No lawyer, union, law or social media post will do for you what you won't do for yourself.
4. For every exploitative boss there is an exploitative employee. Money just makes people more of who they already are.
5. Know the rules of your workplace. If you don't like them provide a better solution or work elsewhere.
Since then I've worked as an entrepreneur in the HR field and my only regret is that I didn't start earlier. I built what is known as a "lifestyle business" and focused on reducing my hours, while maintaining my profit, year after year. I never asked any of my employees to ever work more than their 40 hrs., less if they had to.
Here's what I have learned from this journey:
1. It's called work, not jail. I remember one young man coming into my office years ago complaining about the fact he'd suffered discrimination for 3 straight years. When I asked why he's put up with it for so long he hesitated and then sheepishly said "I like the softball team". I kid you not. Fact is, there is something many of these complainers like about their job they are not willing to give up.
2. You are the one in control of your career...not "them".
3. Playing victim never helps you move forward. No lawyer, union, law or social media post will do for you what you won't do for yourself.
4. For every exploitative boss there is an exploitative employee. Money just makes people more of who they already are.
5. Know the rules of your workplace. If you don't like them provide a better solution or work elsewhere.
33
Having been in HR for over 30 years this post is so on target. With all the rules and regulations now in place, it is a wonder that companies can even be successful enough to employ an employee population.
That's a nice thought but I have been many companies over the years as a contractor, consultant and FTE. I think American companies in general are screwed up more or less in the same ways no matter where you go.
Reduce executive compensation and hire more people.
7
A final insult is that the Cravaths and Amazons aren't really that prestigious anymore. The big Law firms even at $1,200 per hour are just hired help for the big private equity firms. Even a lawyer's $1mm a year after taxes and tuition is still only upper middle class. Even a many stars at amazon are unknown the hedge funds that own it. In decades past GM, Boeing, Teledyne, Mckinsey etc. were the top. Not so much anymore.
2
Are our white collar workplaces getting worse, or are we losing our ability to believe we can choose better behaviors for ourselves? The editor at the digital media company speaks of "implicit pressure to be available," but what is explicitly asked for in her company? What if she made a different choice and goes unplugged for a few hours here or there? I've seen my executive coaching clients do it, in all kinds of environments, and save their sanity and lives. I've also seen smart, marketable people talk themselves into being "trapped" thinking that "the organization" is controlling their behavior, when in truth, it's always their own choice. What they're afraid of is the consequences. But they're guessing that the consequences are always bad, when in fact, they may not be any worse than the environment they're creating for their work and their lives. Thanks for raising this important workplace issue.
3
Some described practices are sickening, but the pressure, grueling schedule and maniacal commitment to excellence are common to any enterprise striving to be exceptional, whether it's a restaurant, tech firm, design or sports team or whatever. On the other pole, is the federal government and its contractors where you enjoy more than a dozen personal days, a month of vacation, a 35-40 hr workweek with no night calls, low standards, a mentor who may be clueless but high on seniority, AND sky high pay with unrivaled job security. I hope the NYTs does a piece on the disastrous consequences of the federal approach.
3
These days the new mantra at many companies seems to be survival of the meanest.
2
I have a high tech job at a leading high tech F500 firm. like most of our peer companies, our job performance is reviewed by our quality of work, not necessarily quantity. I rarely work nights/weekends unless I'm meeting with colleagues in opposite time zones to find a compromise. My stress level is very low, and my morale and motivation are excellent. I've had more time to spend with my family and personal life than any other time in my 15 year career because I've learned to manage myself and my manager.
With all the talent and skillsets the fresh-out-of-college workforce can bring to a company, it's softskills and personal skills (time management?) where they are severely lacking. My counterpart who was hired one year before me worked nights/weekends and was a constant suck-up to mgmt and a real go-getter whose plate was far fuller than mine was. This person was let go last year and those responsibilities were given to me. I haven't had to work a single after hour to wrap up those projects. A tip to the inexperienced: trust your team and respect everybody, don't be the smartest person in the room, delegate but share in success/failures, have your projects and deliverables under control and your boss will notice. Let your work speak for you.
With all the talent and skillsets the fresh-out-of-college workforce can bring to a company, it's softskills and personal skills (time management?) where they are severely lacking. My counterpart who was hired one year before me worked nights/weekends and was a constant suck-up to mgmt and a real go-getter whose plate was far fuller than mine was. This person was let go last year and those responsibilities were given to me. I haven't had to work a single after hour to wrap up those projects. A tip to the inexperienced: trust your team and respect everybody, don't be the smartest person in the room, delegate but share in success/failures, have your projects and deliverables under control and your boss will notice. Let your work speak for you.
4
I don't think any company can or will incorporate policies that would result in curbing its over-zealous employees' enthusiasm for higher positions. Employees trying to gain an edge will always find ways to circumvent policies like that of Goldman Sachs that prohibits analysts from working on Saturdays, rendering those policies as invalid overtime.
The problem is not with the these companies, their policies, or their employees but the the way our capitalist world works. You get more incentives for producing more results and how you produce those results is up to you. This type of environment can only breed intense, often unhealthy, competition when there are more "overachievers" then there are high positions to occupy. No company can mandate how its employees should work at every time of the day.
The problem is not with the these companies, their policies, or their employees but the the way our capitalist world works. You get more incentives for producing more results and how you produce those results is up to you. This type of environment can only breed intense, often unhealthy, competition when there are more "overachievers" then there are high positions to occupy. No company can mandate how its employees should work at every time of the day.
2
I can speak to biglaw.
There is no reason anyone needs to actually bill 2000 hours a year (or 2500 or 3000 for that matter). No one case or deal requires that much work. The excess hours are a function of taking on additional matters, which makes some sense because if you didn't you would have extremely busy periods punctuated with downtime. So rather than working furiously for a stretch and then twiddling your thumbs for another, you take on enough matters so you can work furiously all the time.
I would caveat this with the observation that many of the furious deadlines are artificially imposed by clients seeking to minimize the bill (they often wait until the last minute to engage the lawyers, even after kicking around the deal terms for weeks or months).
I can't say it makes a lot of sense to continue to grind it out as a biglaw partner while sitting on millions in net worth. But these are not normal people. Their life choices have proven they prefer work over outside interests.
There is no reason anyone needs to actually bill 2000 hours a year (or 2500 or 3000 for that matter). No one case or deal requires that much work. The excess hours are a function of taking on additional matters, which makes some sense because if you didn't you would have extremely busy periods punctuated with downtime. So rather than working furiously for a stretch and then twiddling your thumbs for another, you take on enough matters so you can work furiously all the time.
I would caveat this with the observation that many of the furious deadlines are artificially imposed by clients seeking to minimize the bill (they often wait until the last minute to engage the lawyers, even after kicking around the deal terms for weeks or months).
I can't say it makes a lot of sense to continue to grind it out as a biglaw partner while sitting on millions in net worth. But these are not normal people. Their life choices have proven they prefer work over outside interests.
6
This is the same with all large organizations, just ask the employees of the New York Times Co., a company with two tiers of stock to make sure that the inner circle remains in full control despite ever-decreasing economic ownership.
4
Having worked for many years in highly competitive, long-hour, and demanding technology jobs on Wall Street and in high-tech companies, I can safely say that almost no one in those kinds of jobs work at Amazon, Apple, Goldman Sachs or similar companies because they have to. They do it because they want to. Maybe they want to build wealth, their resume, their skills, or for other opportunities. Many leave for lighter duty over time -- but that's ok -- it's often their choice. Eventually I made that choice too and feel no remorse either for my current or past working life.
While the conditions may seem extreme (and every company has outliers of bad behavior and bad managers) -- the result is an ultra-competitve American company that I'm sure many Amazonians are proud to call their own. Those who don't will find another place to work that suits them.
It's not possible to equate this culture with the challenges of the low paid service worker and our focus should be how to improve their lot. The high pressure white collar folks will be ok without our help.
While the conditions may seem extreme (and every company has outliers of bad behavior and bad managers) -- the result is an ultra-competitve American company that I'm sure many Amazonians are proud to call their own. Those who don't will find another place to work that suits them.
It's not possible to equate this culture with the challenges of the low paid service worker and our focus should be how to improve their lot. The high pressure white collar folks will be ok without our help.
4
David, I agree completely. I too have worked in a tech (software development) job on wall street for 30 years. I worked grueling hours for years and it was highly competitive. But I am type-A and thrived there. I build a nice nest egg and don't have to worry if I will have enough to retire. I pay roughly 48% in taxes and have no qualms about it. I also have no regrets for the personal time I sacrificed in getting to where I am today. These folks at Amazon and others with high pressure jobs have a choice. Bezos isn't holding a gun to their head. They choose to work there.
1
I practiced at a large law firm for 10-1/2 years. When it came time to leave the office at night and go home - whether 6:30pm, 7pm, 7:30pm, etc. - and I waited for the elevator, invariably an attorney walking by always said to me "Half-day?".
26
The "abuse" has been going on forever at larger accounting, legal and consulting firms where new hires are expected to work and bill well over 40 hours each week. If a client service professional employee does not bill 3 to 4 times salary (at least), that person is a slacker - and that is after eating hours that cannot be billed to clients. Young employees accept this as a rite of passage, a way to quickly acquire experience, to jump start their careers and complete professional certification requirements. No one expects them to stay around and keep working at this pace - in fact they are supposed to leave, to make room for the new crop of (young) new hires.
2
They may spin their wheels hard and long but do not take the time to think out and research the facts. Hardware they sell typically do not list the important parameters for a user as well as a lot of other products. Which means the who ever is charge of that type product does not ask an on staff expert what has to be listed for a user to know it is a fit. It take time to think and to ask and one needs the get the knowledge first to think.
Whats more their site is not set up to search of the parameters like size, power etc.
Whats more their site is not set up to search of the parameters like size, power etc.
1
When people go to work for companies like Amazon, Goldman, Microsoft, law firms, banks and so on; what do they expect? These hyper-competitive and creative companies didn't grow to be what they are by being a kindergarten for grown-ups.
But, on the other hand, people should be treated fairly, even those who don't make the cut.
But, on the other hand, people should be treated fairly, even those who don't make the cut.
2
This is the dirty little secret about overpopulation - there is always someone else willing to work harder and for less. It won't end unless we drastically reduce population.
I'm retired now but I remember those long, panicked hours.... glad to not be a part of it anymore
I'm retired now but I remember those long, panicked hours.... glad to not be a part of it anymore
2
It's been said a million times, but worth saying again: No one in history has said on their deathbed that they wished they had worked more.
2
the problem isn't the competition for the "top slots". Let those people fight it out at big Law or Amazon. Its that the brutality extends down to the average working stiff who is going nowhere, but is expected to work insane hours until they can't anymore and are replaced by the next worker bee in line.
4
Too many people, too much debt, not enough jobs to give white or blue collar workers much bargaining power...
2
It's hard to feel sorry for lawyers, hedgers, tekkies and so forth who are working their OC butts off to claw their way into the 1%. The ones who can't cut the mustard can always whine about income inequality.
It simply is NOT possible to find any employer in the US today who isn't into "games." These games begin with consumers who are price gouged on substandard quality products and services. The number of lawsuits against contractors in the US has skyrocketed and all because these boys can't be honest and stop with their games.
Then, you get the newest game. Hire illegals through illegal recruiters. Turnover in today's businesses is disgusting. Worse are the online recruiters who aren't recruiting...for jobs..but for schools. Fill out a single resume on any major personnel recruiting site and within 5 minutes you get dozens of phone calls from hacks selling online school programs. These major online personnel sites sell your resume information, don't really have any jobs that are directly linked to the business doing the hiring. Then, the businesses get their syrupy mitts on your resume information, sell it to these online recruiters who sell it to online schools. This is business? This is the US job market? Thailand does a better job of stealing personal information for profit.
Then, you get the newest game. Hire illegals through illegal recruiters. Turnover in today's businesses is disgusting. Worse are the online recruiters who aren't recruiting...for jobs..but for schools. Fill out a single resume on any major personnel recruiting site and within 5 minutes you get dozens of phone calls from hacks selling online school programs. These major online personnel sites sell your resume information, don't really have any jobs that are directly linked to the business doing the hiring. Then, the businesses get their syrupy mitts on your resume information, sell it to these online recruiters who sell it to online schools. This is business? This is the US job market? Thailand does a better job of stealing personal information for profit.
4
Humans used to band together in tribes to raise their young and compete against other tribes to grow and reproduce. Now those instincts of teamwork and competition are co-opted by corporations like Amazon. We work like slaves to put money into the pockets of CEOs while the rank and file don't get time to have children or raise them. We will be a footnote in history - the society that was so hoodwinked by corporate culture that they forgot to reproduce themselves. Except for the ultra-poor, the ultra-religions and recent immigrants, who account for the majority of our fertility rate.
4
Does anyone at the NYT understand what words like "competition" or "elite" actually mean? You might juxtapose this article against any of your articles about economic inequality. In order to earn a top position at a great company or firm, one needs to "win" a long, arduous and high-stakes competition against other highly-trained and highly-motivated individuals. The winners get intellectually and financially rewarding positions; the losers get less. This is the pursuit of excellence in a complex economic world. People can freely choose to work in less Darwinian environments, but they should not whine about the disparity in rewards. Really!
1
This sentence is misleading, perhaps the crux of the matter:
"As a result, far more people are interested in these jobs than there are available slots, leading to the brutal competition that plays out at companies where only the best are destined for partnerships or senior management positions."
No one would argue that "the best" shouldn't have those positions. But it's not the "best" who float to those spaces, if by "best" we mean, smartest, most creative - instead it's the most ruthless. The net effect is that a lot of very good talent is cast aside.
"As a result, far more people are interested in these jobs than there are available slots, leading to the brutal competition that plays out at companies where only the best are destined for partnerships or senior management positions."
No one would argue that "the best" shouldn't have those positions. But it's not the "best" who float to those spaces, if by "best" we mean, smartest, most creative - instead it's the most ruthless. The net effect is that a lot of very good talent is cast aside.
6
Work place competition is as old as the hills. Those who are industrious & innovative have always done well. Or in other words, the cream will rise to the top. Unions and outlying regulators always work to reward the sluggard with perks they should never earn.
Thsnk you, this comment is hilarious!
I mean, you are being facetious, right?
I mean, you are being facetious, right?
The best programmer I ever worked with used to THINK out his tasks completely before writing code. He made whole engineering drawings out of points in a database. When business slowed down, he was the first to be let go because he sat at his desk. He planned his work, researched technical questions, thought it all out beforehand, then started coding until he finished the program, but he didn't LOOK busy enough to management. He was head and shoulders above the rest of the programmers we had, and first to go.
I can't help but wonder if churning nonsense in a spreadsheet to look busy trumps actual thought these days, as well.
I can't help but wonder if churning nonsense in a spreadsheet to look busy trumps actual thought these days, as well.
7
Reports about Amazon's anonymous feedback tool, which people use to torpedo their peers, are pretty alarming. If the company styles itself as being tough and upfront, why let this feedback be anonymous? Where are the ethics in this system?
I routinely share (positive) feedback on my peers, if I've worked with someone who's gone above and beyond. I can't imagine sending rotten comments behind someone's back.
I routinely share (positive) feedback on my peers, if I've worked with someone who's gone above and beyond. I can't imagine sending rotten comments behind someone's back.
24
and again - there a countries and working conditions and job markets which are civilized - where people don't work more than 8 hours a day - insisting on not being bothered by their bosses in their leisure time and while taking their well desrved 6 weeks of vacation a year - AND where 'the job' anyway get's done remarkable well.
AND there are job markets where somebody who is any 'good' just don't work for a worker exploiting company like Amazon!
AND there are job markets where somebody who is any 'good' just don't work for a worker exploiting company like Amazon!
2
“Jimmy Carter tried to get a rule in place for his executive White House staff to be gone and having dinner with their family in the evening, and it broke down,” said Robert H. Frank, a prominent economist at Cornell University . . . "
Oh, Jimmy, you were our better angel. I'd trade a million wannabe Bezos for one of you!
Oh, Jimmy, you were our better angel. I'd trade a million wannabe Bezos for one of you!
5
Now in addition to 'protecting' fast food workers (with minimum wage hikes that kill their jobs) we are to burden ourselves with the 'plight' of ivy league grads who, ON THEIR OWN, choose to pursue high-stress/high-risk/high-reward careers. Oh Boo Hoo. Could we please see an editorial on personal responsibility and choice?
1
In other words, if you take advantage of the kinder policies, you're basically doing yourself out of promotions and advancing....
1
Remember the Stockholm Syndrome where hostages began to identify with their kidnappers? Read the comments of the people who did not get rich from this abuse but still love it in the light of this syndrome....
8
"Even if you win the rat race, you're still a rat"
- Lily Tomlin
"You can love your work, but your work can't love you back"
- anonymous
- Lily Tomlin
"You can love your work, but your work can't love you back"
- anonymous
4
Somewhere in this article these workaholics are called the "best".
I would say they no, they're not the best, they are the dumbest.
Working 80 hours a week, giving up vacation time, working weekends and answering emails at all hours of the day isn't smart, It's stupid and it's slavery.
What happens when you reach that goal of partner, reap the rewards only to realize that you're not happy?
Are these people even that self aware?
I doubt it!
I would say they no, they're not the best, they are the dumbest.
Working 80 hours a week, giving up vacation time, working weekends and answering emails at all hours of the day isn't smart, It's stupid and it's slavery.
What happens when you reach that goal of partner, reap the rewards only to realize that you're not happy?
Are these people even that self aware?
I doubt it!
1
This phrase, is part of many online job descriptions today:
"...a fast-paced environment."
"...a fast-paced environment."
1
I am reminded of a remark that was made to me by my boss of all people (about a year before I was let go):
"On your last hour on earth, you will certainly not wish you had spent more time at the office".
The earlier we all realize this, the better we will be as people and highly productive as employees. For all the breakthroughs, work problem solutions we are figuring out, innovative ideas, do not all come "in the office". For an engaged, motivated employee it can happen anywhere.
An engaged employee will never disengage - whether at work or with family.
"On your last hour on earth, you will certainly not wish you had spent more time at the office".
The earlier we all realize this, the better we will be as people and highly productive as employees. For all the breakthroughs, work problem solutions we are figuring out, innovative ideas, do not all come "in the office". For an engaged, motivated employee it can happen anywhere.
An engaged employee will never disengage - whether at work or with family.
1
Dont ever believe someone who tells you they work 20 hours a day.
2
With respect and it is very sad and difficult to read these disclosures and articles that this monster that could have been a great, big, wonderful and good monster has turned into the other kind and apparently across the board. They are using a working, long standing in the business world model of capitalism and competitive violence when they could have constructed, built up and established a new form, a new platform with which to develop their domination and it would have been something grand. These revelations will force change at that company, but it really saddens readers to know this has been the practices and what went for business as usual. We can't sell our souls for the marketplace and be ground down to dust in the doing so. I will have to push myself to read through these articles completely and followup with later discussions and articles, I am hoping that Amazon can learn from all this and have in place those top level on down executives and ordinary workers who can help construct a model of honest, humane and 21st century corporation where the change and move far away from the old paradigm in favor or something exemplary that other companies and the corporate work environment can learn from and follow their lead. They have the resources. Amazon has the unlimited supply of the best and brightest, now is the time for them to radically as in evolutionarily change their corporate structure and world. Waste no time, Amazon, if you honest want want to be best.
1
What happened to Deming's philosophy of being tough on the problem and kind to your employees?
3
When my company sought bankruptcy protection in 2009 there were many lay offs. As things moderated and laid off workers were called back, they were treated like dirt. Many of the younger ones (late 20s-early 40s) with families, mortgages, etc. swore that when the economy improved they would jump at the first opportunity.
In 2013 my region was decimated by resignations as these employees fled for better jobs. Yet management remained deaf to the underlying reasons for the talent drain, a drain that cost the company a fortune in hiring, recruitment and training expenses.
But it worked out for me. A 100% travel regimen took its toll and I told my employer I was retiring. I gave one year notice (it takes 6 months to hire someone and 6 months to train them.) About 5 months into my last year my boss called me and said he wanted me to stay on the team (our department was stable and with so many others in turmoil from resignations corporate did not want another hole in the dike.)
I was offered a huge raise. Immediately. I told my boss more money would not undo the health problems 100% travel has caused. He told me no more travel, take extra time to do stuff if you need it.
I am now RIP: Retired In Place.
In 2013 my region was decimated by resignations as these employees fled for better jobs. Yet management remained deaf to the underlying reasons for the talent drain, a drain that cost the company a fortune in hiring, recruitment and training expenses.
But it worked out for me. A 100% travel regimen took its toll and I told my employer I was retiring. I gave one year notice (it takes 6 months to hire someone and 6 months to train them.) About 5 months into my last year my boss called me and said he wanted me to stay on the team (our department was stable and with so many others in turmoil from resignations corporate did not want another hole in the dike.)
I was offered a huge raise. Immediately. I told my boss more money would not undo the health problems 100% travel has caused. He told me no more travel, take extra time to do stuff if you need it.
I am now RIP: Retired In Place.
2
What a nonsense article. I suppose there is no competition or long hours at the NYTimes?
Every company has competition. Competition is the driver in a free market. We each have the choice to work towards a job that has long hours, with a better pay OR choose to spend few hours and have lower stress. It is our choice as individuals and not something thrust upon us like sweat shop hours and pay seen in the early 1900s.
Is competition brutal? No. It's what you as an individual make of it, just like stress or a bad day - it's how you handle it that makes the difference.
The United States is supposed to be a country where we all have the access to education and through our own desires, seek the job that we want. We may not get it right away, or ever, but we have the right to seek it. Without government dictates or interventions.
Not sure what the point of this article really is, but if it's to condemn competition, its un-American. If you want good hours and equal pay, go to ... well, in theory, China or Russia. But in reality, we all know that's not accurate either.
Every company has competition. Competition is the driver in a free market. We each have the choice to work towards a job that has long hours, with a better pay OR choose to spend few hours and have lower stress. It is our choice as individuals and not something thrust upon us like sweat shop hours and pay seen in the early 1900s.
Is competition brutal? No. It's what you as an individual make of it, just like stress or a bad day - it's how you handle it that makes the difference.
The United States is supposed to be a country where we all have the access to education and through our own desires, seek the job that we want. We may not get it right away, or ever, but we have the right to seek it. Without government dictates or interventions.
Not sure what the point of this article really is, but if it's to condemn competition, its un-American. If you want good hours and equal pay, go to ... well, in theory, China or Russia. But in reality, we all know that's not accurate either.
2
It seems that each week we get one step closer to the real life Hunger Games.
35
When the people at the top of the corporation get paid hundreds of times more than the people at the bottom, this type of behavior is what is to be expected. If you want to own mansions in several of the great cities of the world and jet around to them in your own private plane, then this is the work life for you.
1
Since our reigning "brutal competitor" seems to be China, I suppose CEOs think this justifies American workers being treated like the poor souls who assemble their iphones 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for $6,000 a year.
4
In the early 1900s citizens and workers objected strongly to the imposition of Scientific Management, (also known as Taylorism). Scientific management (devised by Frederick Taylor) created the assembly line to optimize industrial output by breaking the manufacturing process into segments and mechanizing human movements to maximum outputs. Jeff Bezos is a 21st century Silicon Valley incarnation of Frederick Taylor.
A social uproar arose in reaction to what workers and unions described as the transformation of humans into machine parts, with little or no regard for worker's well-being except insofar, as that well-being enhanced output. The anecdote of Amazon lining up ambulances outside its overheated warehouses to treat staff from heat exhaustion as they fell is a great modern example of this corporate extremism.
Congress passed laws in response the excesses of Taylorism. Washington State and the Federal government can do the same. But alas, this is what we have chosen for our country as a way of life. And today's Republican Party embodies this ethos. Donald Trump, Scott Walker, or Jeb Bush could all be Jeff Bezos: Break unions, dramatically reduce environmental and human resource regulations, eliminate or denude social security, extend the retirement age. From Amazon to the outsourcing of our military operations to private contractors, etc., our political class has turned America from a country into a business.
A social uproar arose in reaction to what workers and unions described as the transformation of humans into machine parts, with little or no regard for worker's well-being except insofar, as that well-being enhanced output. The anecdote of Amazon lining up ambulances outside its overheated warehouses to treat staff from heat exhaustion as they fell is a great modern example of this corporate extremism.
Congress passed laws in response the excesses of Taylorism. Washington State and the Federal government can do the same. But alas, this is what we have chosen for our country as a way of life. And today's Republican Party embodies this ethos. Donald Trump, Scott Walker, or Jeb Bush could all be Jeff Bezos: Break unions, dramatically reduce environmental and human resource regulations, eliminate or denude social security, extend the retirement age. From Amazon to the outsourcing of our military operations to private contractors, etc., our political class has turned America from a country into a business.
4
When public policy fails to sustain a full employment economy, labor invariably has an inferior negotiating position to management.
4
This still does not explain the good old boy or girl syndrome. In corporations, I have worked for, one person would be given special treatment because they were best friends with the department manager. They spent weekends together with their families and sent their kids to the same schools. Other staff members who were equally committed were not given inside information that they needed to be competitive in their jobs. They were given time off for family obligations while others had to do their work on top of their own. One day, a certain policy was in place, then it would change overnight and the higher-ups "forgot" to tell the people outside their inner circle. A true meritocracy supposes a level playing field which does not exist. BTW, the women are as bad as the men so this is not a gender issue.
5
My view of how a workplace should be managed was influenced profoundly by a colleague's funeral. One of the eulogies, while highlighting my colleague's achievements as a wife, mother and friend, also mentioned my colleague's pride in her work and her achievements on the job.
My colleague was a middle-level worker, not a senior manager, but her work was an important component of her well-being. In managing workplaces and employees, companies should foster not only productivity and the creation of value for ownership, but also the dignity and well-being of employees.
If you are a manager, how do you want your employees to remember you and the company when they are looking back? Would employees want their experiences at your firm mentioned at their funerals? This is a key litmus test as to the effectiveness of both companies and managers in their treatment of employees.
Companies and managers, please remember: you are creating not onlyn profits, but life experiences.
My colleague was a middle-level worker, not a senior manager, but her work was an important component of her well-being. In managing workplaces and employees, companies should foster not only productivity and the creation of value for ownership, but also the dignity and well-being of employees.
If you are a manager, how do you want your employees to remember you and the company when they are looking back? Would employees want their experiences at your firm mentioned at their funerals? This is a key litmus test as to the effectiveness of both companies and managers in their treatment of employees.
Companies and managers, please remember: you are creating not onlyn profits, but life experiences.
2
We know that working to earn a living is a necessity for most people most of the time, so there is, in theory, a relationship among all of us in this regard. Problems in the workplace that make so many jobs in so many companies less pleasant and even stressful result from imbalances between striving for financial success or survival and having lives of quality. When keeping costs low to enhance profits and shareholder value creates miserable workplaces, the concept of American exceptionalism becomes a negative exploitation of self-reliance that lowers the quality of life for far too many.
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
Eclectic Pragmatist — http://eclectic-pragmatist.tumblr.com/
Eclectic Pragmatist — https://medium.com/eclectic-pragmatism
2
Sadly, almost the same article could have been written about the other big tech company in the Seattle area.
16
Actually it can be applied to all companies from the mid-size on up to the global players. We are just so much chaff to the bosses.
1
" the basic problem is that the rewards for ascending to top jobs at companies like Netflix and Goldman Sachs are not just enormous, they are also substantially greater than at companies in the next tier down."
_____________
The real question is: How much does one need to live comfortably? There comes a point where the extra income doesn't buy any thing more of necessity.
The whole corporate culture has gone haywire since the 80s.
_____________
The real question is: How much does one need to live comfortably? There comes a point where the extra income doesn't buy any thing more of necessity.
The whole corporate culture has gone haywire since the 80s.
8
The whole point is to cash in and escape the ratrace.
I see that Scheiber has learned a new word, brutal, as he uses it repeatedly in his article. It seems that many people nowadays have an expectation that they will be compensated and promoted the same as their more productive colleagues, regardless of their contribution to the company. I guess the Chinese are the new believers in free enterprise.
I worked 38 years at ExxonMobil, with about two thirds of the time being with Mobil. XOM has a forced ranking system for its employees, whereas Mobil did not, and I believe that the XOM system led to higher levels of performance. For most of the years at Mobil, the differences in merit increases were minimal for those in similar positions, regardless of their effort and results. The difference was that the best employees got the promotional opportunities. But what happens when business slows and there are few such opportunities? What is the motivation for someone to put forth extra effort, when the person next to you is receiving the same raise and doing only the minimum.
At Exxon, they do a forced ranking, which like many things at XOM, is unnecessarily bureaucratic. However, they do vary raises significantly between the top and bottom performers, and the employee turnover rate is very low. While only a relative handful will be able to become truly rich, the rest of us received above average pay, very good benefits, and excellent post retirement assistance. Mediocre companies cannot afford to pay like that.
I worked 38 years at ExxonMobil, with about two thirds of the time being with Mobil. XOM has a forced ranking system for its employees, whereas Mobil did not, and I believe that the XOM system led to higher levels of performance. For most of the years at Mobil, the differences in merit increases were minimal for those in similar positions, regardless of their effort and results. The difference was that the best employees got the promotional opportunities. But what happens when business slows and there are few such opportunities? What is the motivation for someone to put forth extra effort, when the person next to you is receiving the same raise and doing only the minimum.
At Exxon, they do a forced ranking, which like many things at XOM, is unnecessarily bureaucratic. However, they do vary raises significantly between the top and bottom performers, and the employee turnover rate is very low. While only a relative handful will be able to become truly rich, the rest of us received above average pay, very good benefits, and excellent post retirement assistance. Mediocre companies cannot afford to pay like that.
4
Everyone gets a trophy.
That works for no one.
Life is hard.
That works for no one.
Life is hard.
3
You really can't differentiate the idea that 'not everyone wins' from the idea that 'almost everyone loses'? Wow.
It's time we looked at our systems - economic, social, political - and realized the system is for the sake of the people, not the other way round. Amazon's system, which, as many comments note, is not that unusual for the modern workplace, is clearly dysfunctional.
It's time we looked at our systems - economic, social, political - and realized the system is for the sake of the people, not the other way round. Amazon's system, which, as many comments note, is not that unusual for the modern workplace, is clearly dysfunctional.
Readers can decide the relevance of my post: my wife just mused why it takes 5 days to get a letter delivered, but that a product ordered and delivered by UPS, FedEx, or Amazon can be done in one day...
6
I don't work for the USPS, but you are paying for that one-day delivery, even if it's called 'free.' The USPS has lower fees - can you get anything delivered by FedEx or UPS for 43 cents? Don't think so. In our area, it takes 2 days to get a letter via USPS, not bad for 43 cents. And our mail carrier walks more than the UPS or FedEx delivery people, who just pull up in front and run up the driveway, so the USPS system is more environmentally friendly too.
3
One of them costs 41 cents
A stamp costs, I believe, 46 cents. (I use 'forever' stamps, and last time I bought a lot of 'em and so haven't had to buy any in awhile.)
How much does it cost to send the same letter by FedEx? A lot more than 46 cents. Having had multiple bad experiences with UPS, I will refrain from discussing them further.
This is not even figuring in the human cost of the way the corporations treat their employees.
How much does it cost to send the same letter by FedEx? A lot more than 46 cents. Having had multiple bad experiences with UPS, I will refrain from discussing them further.
This is not even figuring in the human cost of the way the corporations treat their employees.
Many corporate people seem to learn a company and how to maneuver within. Good, but sometimes you end up with skills that are not very marketable outside that structure. Look at all the nebulous titles in a large corporation. Now go to a privately held smaller company and see that people actually have significantly more responsibility than their corporate counterparts and a clear, defined job.
It may not be a pleasure cruise, and can still result in long hours, a demanding CEO and nasty co-workers, but generally speaking a bit more tolerable. Usually, there are not three people or more desiring your job.
As the world speeds towards a culture based on "social media" type superficial relationships and giant corporations gobble up the small, I would think we could expect more of this impersonal sort of thing in the future.
As for the types that do thrive in that atmosphere. They will get what they asked for. Just stay far away from them if you possibly can.
It may not be a pleasure cruise, and can still result in long hours, a demanding CEO and nasty co-workers, but generally speaking a bit more tolerable. Usually, there are not three people or more desiring your job.
As the world speeds towards a culture based on "social media" type superficial relationships and giant corporations gobble up the small, I would think we could expect more of this impersonal sort of thing in the future.
As for the types that do thrive in that atmosphere. They will get what they asked for. Just stay far away from them if you possibly can.
1
All this "jibber jabber" about the cream rising to the top is simply masquerading the GREED inherent with capitalism. Former President Jimmy Carter said recently, "America is no longer a democracy, but an oligarchy". Not surprising as We The People no longer have a stake in the direction and quality of life in our country as do maniacal billionaire oligarchs like the Koch Brothers, George Soros and Jeff Bezos, along with their Wall Street minions and Washington flunkies. The average American worker spends their entire life groveling in various degrees of indentured servitude fighting over the table scraps and deluding themselves with the myth of the American Dream. Yes, the ravenous genius of Jeff Bezos and Amazon, successfully turning the country's population (and the world's) into a massive herd of consumers "wildebeests" content to graze the vast shopping mall savannas from "sea to shining sea" and online. Spurned on with easy credit and an insatiable appetite for cheap "stuff". Truth, justice and the American way has never rung so hollow.
5
where is it written that WORK is supposed to be fun>?
3
Congratulations!
You just make every employer smile.
You just make every employer smile.
1
Non-sequitur.
Between "fun" and "health-destroying" there is an entire middle ground of productive labor.
Between "fun" and "health-destroying" there is an entire middle ground of productive labor.
1
Noel Coward once said that work is more fun than fun. But he didn't work for Amazon.
1
Getting somewhat along in years, we have memories of what Robert Reich called "the great prosperity" of the quarter-century or so after WWII. The pace was not today's, at least not as in this discussion, and management that ran what the Navy used to call "a happy ship" was considered exemplary. But that management didn't have to deliver a minimum of 30% profit to its investors. Today's intensity, placing the latest cash flow as more important than any other consideration, can only be destructive, to its people and ultimately, its house.
8
Has it ever occurred to the hand-wringers that this is a result of the competitive conduct of employees, rather than of cruel edicts from a callous employer?
2
Ted, please remember that at ALL organizations it is those who manage who set the tone.
1
But the employers set up the rules of the game.
1
I don't know that the situation was that different early in the 20th century when time/efficiency measurement became fashionable in the office and punishing paces were maintained on factory assembly lines. Then, back in the earlier industrial revolution, workers toiled for 12 to 14 hours days six days a week. If it reproduces, here is a 1949 Edward Hopper painting called Conference at Night; if not, look it up.
https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1...
https://www.google.com/search?site=&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1...
13
Heh, but notice that the sun is still streaming in in Hopper's "night" conference! Cultures change over time, but human biology doesn't. I worked briefly in investment banking, and found that there was a lot of putting in hours to look as busy as the next guy. The saddest thing was the way the senior level people looked to each other for validation. Nobody was dining with their families, so they were not receiving appreciation for their efforts as parents and spouses, settling instead for recognition for their intelligence from their colleagues. It's heady stuff, working all hours with brilliant co-workers when one is twenty-two and has not yet taken on obligations to others. But it's not compatible with long term health, or even for the capacity to experience joy. So, by all means, brilliant young folks should sojourn to these places, learn what there is to learn there, but be cautious about succumbing to "golden handcuffs." Live below your means so that when you are ready to leave, you can!
America was founded on an ethic of hard work. Think about the drudgery of plowing fields, raising livestock, and fighting the elements from a hand built log cabin as our ancestors did. Your productivity determined whether you and your family would make it through the next winter. Then think about today for most workers: Go to work in an air conditioned office, attend a few meetings, and communicate by computer. Maybe put up with a demanding boss, who you can always report to Human Resources if he/she gives you a hard time about scheduling your next 2 week vacation in the Caribbean. Which scenario would you prefer? Get over yourself if you think life in the corporate world is so tough today.
2
Paul, if you have to haul yourself out of bed with the flu to milk your bellowing cow, because there's no one else to do it, that's one thing. Putting unnecessary pressure on people like sending emails at midnight with followup texts - not because you have a patient who took a turn for the worse but because somebody wonders where her Elsa doll is - is just asinine.
I'm 62, been working since I was 11 (my uncle's store).
Frankly, I no longer care.
I just long for the day when I no longer have to show up.
Frankly, I no longer care.
I just long for the day when I no longer have to show up.
8
The "Cravath method" is not the only force driving lawyers to work the hours they work. 30 years ago as young lawyer employed in government service, I remember so vividly my introduction to litigation. Although my colleagues in big firms were making princely sums for their long hours, my meager government salary remained the same no matter how many hours I worked. I often worked until 9 or 10 every night and usually one or both days on the weekends so that I could meet my deadlines. At least insofar as the legal profession is concerned, partners and supervisors aren't the only people who set the pace for subordinate attorneys. Judges have an obligation to move the cases on their dockets too. All too often my deadlines were set by a judge who wanted a matter resolved as quickly as possible, unconcerned that I had other matters due on the same day.
1
With Amazon's ambition to build a workforce of over 50,000 in Seattle, it becomes a sizable industry and could point the way for other industries, some not even born yet, to provide a significant boost to employment in the United States.
This ambition seems to counter the criticism of Silicon Valley companies that while extremely innovative and profitable, those tech companies don't really add much to the labor force. Amazon's plans will add a significant amount of employment to the Seattle economy.
At the same time, the recent investigative articles by the NYT looking into the labor practices at Amazon should give momentum to the debate over what a company should be as we advance in the 21st century. Let the debate flourish.
This ambition seems to counter the criticism of Silicon Valley companies that while extremely innovative and profitable, those tech companies don't really add much to the labor force. Amazon's plans will add a significant amount of employment to the Seattle economy.
At the same time, the recent investigative articles by the NYT looking into the labor practices at Amazon should give momentum to the debate over what a company should be as we advance in the 21st century. Let the debate flourish.
1
Investors have been extraordinarily lenient with Amazon. If it were a brick and mortar corp, it would have been bought up, chopped up, and sold for its bits long ago. 50,000 jobs is a tiny proportion of the jobs, and wealth, Amazon has displaced. To what end? Bezos is lucky to be a billionaire as it is.
When I went to work for a large corporation years ago, our department head gave us some candid guidance about career advancement. It boiled down to this: If you're willing to work long hours, treat every assignment as if it were the most important thing you've ever done, and consistently turn in work that exceeds expectations, you'll have the opportunity to rise through the management ranks and be compensated accordingly. If you are not so motivated and would simply prefer to do your job well and meet expectations so you'll have more time for yourself and your family, that's fine -- but don't expect the same rewards as those willing to make the necessary sacrifices. If you missed several weeks of work because of pregnancy, rehab, injury or illness, you'd have your boss's sympathy, but you should not be surprised if your prolonged absence affected your performance review. Like it or not, it makes perfect sense: If you're not there, you can't do the work. If you're not willing to do what's necessary to move up, you won't.
7
Tie first part is fine, up to "don't expect the same rewards as those willing to make the necessary sacrifices."
The second part, about your absence affecting your performance review - no that does not make perfect sense. Life happens. If a person has gallbladder surgery and that gets "does not meet expectations" on his review, then his expectations were nonsense. Until we start hiring robots instead of people.
The second part, about your absence affecting your performance review - no that does not make perfect sense. Life happens. If a person has gallbladder surgery and that gets "does not meet expectations" on his review, then his expectations were nonsense. Until we start hiring robots instead of people.
1
Should we expect any different in a nation where individuals believe their cell phone is a necessity?
2
I believe in competition if you re all for it. But for people that just want to do the best work that they can, to be constantly challenged because they love what they do, in order to provide a good life for their family, the ways that many companies, like Amazon, are using are horrible. To not earn a promotion because you needed to recover from a miscarriage or take care of a sick parent is not good business. The talent that you had will go away just because he/she did not committed the hours. Hours are not equivalent to quality.
1
If you think US workers have it bad, you need to look at the IT outsourcing industry in India. It is impossible to leave before 6 PM if you care about promotions. It is so ingrained that even women do not mind working late hours. All of this in an industry with a median wage of 50000 Rupees($900) a month . This is the competition the American IT worker is up against.
4
At one time overseers used to drive the slaves and landlords used to drive the serfs. Now, they just use money to get the competition to drive you. Are we so stupid to be a prisoner in a jail of our own choosing? I guess one does not have a choice if it is between feasting like a king or starving. Life should not be like a Game of Thrones.
2
Having been in management for over 40 years, I do not believe in the Cravath system, because doing so assume that a company will eventually have only top performers in their ranks. This does not allow for assessing performance as to job skills and abilities, which many companies do not perform. Many times a weak performer is in a misplaced position, or needs specialized training, etc.
To simply label a weak performer to discard, companies have to go back to the system whereby the company takes a look at themselves, and decide if they have part of the blame for poor performance. And, they need to find ways to salvage good people who perform poorly due to many intrinsic factors within an organization.
To simply label a weak performer to discard, companies have to go back to the system whereby the company takes a look at themselves, and decide if they have part of the blame for poor performance. And, they need to find ways to salvage good people who perform poorly due to many intrinsic factors within an organization.
2
In reading both this article and the Amazon workplace article, it is clear to me that, working hard is important. I do this for every responsibility that I have. But not addressing the emotional and professional abuse poured onto someone is unacceptable. In the same way that civil rights advocates protest against bias and poor treatment, so to should the workforce of the current era. We should not look back and say that it is ok for environments like Amazon's to exists in an era where we are aware of what abuse is and how to prevent it. It is the responsibility of managers of the 'new era of work' to prevent this. And managers who use abusive techniques for the sake of corporate success and advancement, should not succeed nor advance.
The articles oozes the woe is me white collar worker complex, money isn't everything but it is for them so boo hoo. If you want to bust your butt and make that kind of dough, you know what you are getting into and you should know the downside, if you don't you are kidding yourself.
Two options : Money and power with no time for a life, or settle for less money at another job that affords you more freedom. To me the work balance for the former is get in, make your piggy bank, and get out so you can enjoy the latter part of your life. I know a friend that owned a few McDonald's and at 53 said "I have enough, let's spend time with my family I didn't see the last 20 years." Wise and strong man, you can't take it with you when you die.
I took the later and enjoy more of my time now when I'm lucent and able-bodied, yet still work hard to excel, albeit more slowly. I won't retire in style, but I plan to live modestly and not above my means by doing the middle-management gig, free time is all worth it to me, money isn't everything.
Two options : Money and power with no time for a life, or settle for less money at another job that affords you more freedom. To me the work balance for the former is get in, make your piggy bank, and get out so you can enjoy the latter part of your life. I know a friend that owned a few McDonald's and at 53 said "I have enough, let's spend time with my family I didn't see the last 20 years." Wise and strong man, you can't take it with you when you die.
I took the later and enjoy more of my time now when I'm lucent and able-bodied, yet still work hard to excel, albeit more slowly. I won't retire in style, but I plan to live modestly and not above my means by doing the middle-management gig, free time is all worth it to me, money isn't everything.
2
I am not outraged after reading about the Amazon culture. In fact, I believe that those who feel most injured by their system likely belong elsewhere. Why stay if so unhappy? It's the compensation or experience or resume-building?That makes sense but in that case, should sympathy be elicited? Uplifting ways to start the day exist; so also may media outrage addiction exist. Truth is that Bezos, like Jobs, is a business genius who has created a amazing service for consumers that I wouldn't want to be without.
13
Will you still feel that way when Amazon is the only place you can go to get the item you want, and the price has gone up and the quality down, in the endless pursuit of profit?
The "15 to 20 percent" cited fits the bell curve nicely, so that's settled. Plus those 20 percent thrive on competition and they're not complaining it seems. It's the next tier population facing the daunting work hours dilemma with no highly desired payoff to drive them, resulting in feeling cheated. And, it is pervasive in all workplaces today, not just top tier law firms. Been around a long time too, just more brutal now in a global network. P.S. If you think it's brutal now, just wait until your competion is advanced AI. It's here a little today but tomorrow? Oh boy!
1
(Reviews my earlier post) holy cow I was totally wrong, upon re-reading the article it sounds like Amazon has a terrible work-life balance. They should try to improve that immediately, especially their warehouse working conditions. Even Scrooge never amassed $50 billion dollars while forcing Tiny Tim to work until collapse in a warehouse.
There should be a happy medium between workhouse conditions and a laissez faire office where people sleep at their desks.
There should be a happy medium between workhouse conditions and a laissez faire office where people sleep at their desks.
1
After living in Silicon Valley for some time now, I've noticed there's a very indirect effort to keep workers at work even despite images of "work/life balance". Google and other tech companies offer their employees free meals, laundry, and other life services that completely negate the need to go home for anything but sleep. Even if you have all the company rhetoric telling you to have a life outside of work, why would you?
3
The policies may be liberal but a worker risks losing the job if he or she actually utilizes those policies. This is all window dressing. Absent unions to protect the workers all we have is high tech sweatshops.
4
Sunday's Amazon article focused on Amazon's employees being abused by their managers and by each other. Monday, MSNBC had a feature about the abuse of workers in their distributions facilities. It all hangs together. The abuse gets passed down the chain from executive to white-collar to hourly workers - and when they are done, they go home all strung out and prone to abuse their families. What a society.
12
A classic kiss-up kick-down pecking order.
Mr. Buckingham's comment, “We don’t mind competition,” he said. “We mind unfair competition" really resonated with me.
It's not fair competition. Were people asleep during the day at kindergarten that we all learned nothing in life is fair? Rather than fairness, it is luck. People earn these high positions through hard work and luck--but rarely it seems do they realize how much is up to chance.
It's not fair competition. Were people asleep during the day at kindergarten that we all learned nothing in life is fair? Rather than fairness, it is luck. People earn these high positions through hard work and luck--but rarely it seems do they realize how much is up to chance.
8
Even down to being the tall, good-looking white man that upper management (thinks they) see when they look in the mirror.
Donald Sutherland as Cravath...
"Let the games begin!"
"Let the games begin!"
2
" . . . More and more young highly credentialed workers acknowledge that they can’t fulfill their responsibilities as husbands, wives, parents and friends while ascending through their organizations."
How about just getting through a day happily and having a peaceful night's sleep? Less and less likely for more and more of us. We're burning out as we work too hard for too long with too little joy and peace.
How about just getting through a day happily and having a peaceful night's sleep? Less and less likely for more and more of us. We're burning out as we work too hard for too long with too little joy and peace.
17
Oh my God! One actually has to work hard to achieve success! What an abomination!
9
I'm sure that's exactly what the slaves in the South once felt to themselves, only rather than achieving "success" they toiled so only to escape from being savagely beaten or hung. Things used to be much more straightforward and obvious to the senses than they are today . . . perhaps even "kinder" then, in that regard.
Somebody else who didn't really read the articles.
No wonder we have a country in which voting turnout is comparably low and ignorance about politics and important issues facing communities, states and the country prevails. If the smartest and most ambitious among us are drawn to white collar jobs at Amazon, Google, etc., they don't have time or energy to become leaders in areas which really matter.
11
In the last company I worked for before retiring, there were so many vice presidents that the title had completely lost its meaning. It was a joke. Each division had only one president, and there was only one CEO, so there really was nowhere for all those VPs to go. The ones that hung around the longest eventually got to be Senior Vice Presidents. I never understood why anyone would work long hours and miss spending time with their families just to join the hoards at the VP level. What's the point, when the title was essentially meaningless?
5
I'm surprised at the "I'm shocked to learn" quality of this series of articles and associated comments on life at an elite high tech company. My experiences in 14 years of new product design/development at Apple Computer weren't much different than what's being described at Amazon. I used to tell prospective employees that we had flex-time at Apple. Any 80 hours a week that they wanted to work were fine with me, and those 80 hours often grew to 100 or more as we brought new designs to market. Working at a company that has such a large impact on the world and regularly bets its future on new ideas that have the potential to change the way we live requires an obsession for excellence and a total commitment to the success of the project. It was no place for the faint of heart or for those who were merely competent. Product design jobs at Apple were so desirable and there was so much elite competition for the few project team slots available that there was no choice but to work that hard. There was very little (no) time for family, friends, or life outside of work. In return we got to change the world. It's not for everyone.
67
Here's what I don't understand: Why not hire two people to work 40-50 hours per week at a lower salary, instead of one person to work 80-100? No one can do their job that well for more than 50 hours/week over a sustained period of time. I know I don't want a doctor or a lawyer performing work for me when they're stressed and exhausted, and I am not billed less for their services if I happen to get that person at their worst.
Many well-qualified, talented and hard-working people would love to have a professional job with challenging work that does not consume ALL of their waking hours, and would be more than happy to make less money doing it. They would also be more efficient in their jobs as they wouldn't be exhausted and overworked. The problem is that there are few corporate jobs that offer this as an option.
Many well-qualified, talented and hard-working people would love to have a professional job with challenging work that does not consume ALL of their waking hours, and would be more than happy to make less money doing it. They would also be more efficient in their jobs as they wouldn't be exhausted and overworked. The problem is that there are few corporate jobs that offer this as an option.
7
However, it is said no one ever said on his deathbed, 'I wish I'd spent more time at the office'.
I admit I'm somewhat jaded about Apple, because it looks to me like the changes the company has made in the world weren't positive on balance. I see a rat race of hipsters churning through high-tech 'status' toys based on superficial upgrades; the promotion of trivial pastimes on devices to which people glue themselves rather than engage with the real world. And a production process that rapes the Third World of rare earths at great cost to the environment, and ships jobs overseas into near-slave labour.
Not sure when I die I want that to be my legacy.
BTW I'm writing on a PC.
I admit I'm somewhat jaded about Apple, because it looks to me like the changes the company has made in the world weren't positive on balance. I see a rat race of hipsters churning through high-tech 'status' toys based on superficial upgrades; the promotion of trivial pastimes on devices to which people glue themselves rather than engage with the real world. And a production process that rapes the Third World of rare earths at great cost to the environment, and ships jobs overseas into near-slave labour.
Not sure when I die I want that to be my legacy.
BTW I'm writing on a PC.
5
The article is about people at the opposite end of the pay scale from you and your cohorts in product design. Hour wage earners and salaried workers are largely two different animals.
1
There is still a lack of any sense among the new tech age employees- that they might seek out support among peers and - unionize. Perhaps it's because every individual thinks him/her-self special and superior - until knocked down?
Some firms have provided family friendly services -- usually, to insure worker availability, loyalty, and productivity - which makes perfect sense . If I were working and hoping to get ahead in a highly competitive area, taking extensive leave would not be something I would actually choose, whether or not it was offered. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be accommodations for many reasons
However, WE seem to have forgotten that past protections for workers were hard won - through actions against companies and through political action.
Some firms have provided family friendly services -- usually, to insure worker availability, loyalty, and productivity - which makes perfect sense . If I were working and hoping to get ahead in a highly competitive area, taking extensive leave would not be something I would actually choose, whether or not it was offered. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be accommodations for many reasons
However, WE seem to have forgotten that past protections for workers were hard won - through actions against companies and through political action.
10
I'd prefer to work in a job where the employees work together to achieve a common goal. I guess that's why I've always been attracted to governmental and military jobs.
7
Right. And I don't know how the upper management can be confident that people have the company's best interest at heart in the decisions they make when they have to back stab or defend against back stabbing just to keep their jobs.
My experience with government employees is that they love to meet as 'teams' and do nothing, produce nothing, but new rules that are turned into countless forms that no one really understands. It's not team work, it's bureaucracy.
As another commenter also pointed out -- at one time -- for me, as a kid growing up in the 1960s -- the promise of automation was that everyone would benefit. The 40-hour workweek would be replaced by lots of leisure for creative work, family, friends, hobbies. The challenge would be how to constructively fill your time! It's important for us to remember that none of the management themes of recent decades that supposedly inevitabilize the increasingly unbearable American workplace -- the relentlessness of competition, the pressures of globalization, etcetera ad nauseam -- are anything but choices that we as a society have made. We as a society have decided to be mystified or turned off by the theater of politics -- to accept that the one-percenters should get more and more and more of the "excess wealth" -- to let the Supreme Court with decisions like Citizens United cement the fingers of the plutocrats around the neck of our government. There's nothing at all inevitable about any of this, and it's not at all naive to make that assertion. What is hard, though, is for the rest of us increasingly stressed and beleaguered citizens of this country to forgo the conveniences and economies of shopping at Amazon and Walmart as we have less and less time and money because we have to work at these places. It's a conundrum, and I don't know how we can find our way out of the self-reinforcing race to the bottom that we are in now.
17
It's funny Amazon of all places gets this attention. I never considered it a particuarily difficult company by which to be hired, or an elite place to work. I don't think the Cravath comparison makes sense to Amazon. I think many people who work at Amazon probably feel really lucky to have the job and actually don't have options to move many other places.
2
I was thinking the same thing. I get tons of recruiting calls from Amazon but always ignored them since I considered them to be a little boring. They are doing more interesting things lately though (outside of ecommerce).
Wondering why an article that dilutes the negativity around Amazon by pointing out competitive environments elsewhere came so quickly on the heels of the Amazon article.
2
Be as the lilies of the field.....
5
OTOH Jesus and his followers gave up their trades to become itinerant preachers. They were able to do this because they could spend the three years of his ministry sleeping in houses built, wearing clothes woven, and eating fish caught and bread baked ... by those who pursued the trades they'd given up.
When someone doesn't work, someone else has to do the work. This is why St Paul said to the early Christians living in a communal arrangement, he who does not work, neither shall he eat. The lilies of the field toil not, neitehr do they spin, but they also die in the winter, because God didn't give them winter coats.
When someone doesn't work, someone else has to do the work. This is why St Paul said to the early Christians living in a communal arrangement, he who does not work, neither shall he eat. The lilies of the field toil not, neitehr do they spin, but they also die in the winter, because God didn't give them winter coats.
Sometimes when I get stress I make the time to pet one of my cats and think about her life. If she is fed and watered, and sheltered from the weather, and nothing is threatening her, she's happy. If someone is petting her, that's icing on the cake. Am I fed? Can I pay my bills right now? All right then.
I also think about this from Luke chapter 12:
“The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’
“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
I also think about this from Luke chapter 12:
“The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’
“Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’
“But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’
My experience in over 50 years as an engineer (mechanical type... a REAL engineer)... in various organizations ranging from big corporations through the US Navy to small 20 man outfits is that most of the pressure came from "ladder climbing" middle management where the primary objective was to get your boss's job or to protect your own job. It's not hard to believe that the CEO, having already attained the top rung, could honestly believe that such activity doesn't exist in his corporation.
In his denial Mr. Bezos may not really be so misleading as he is clueless.
In his denial Mr. Bezos may not really be so misleading as he is clueless.
7
I've been an engineer and a programmer. Luckily for me, my pay has been adequate and the management positions above me were locked up - there was no chance of anybody climbing the ladder. I worked a 40-45 hour week for my entire career, was able to retire early, and I'm living the life.
That's probably why his company is doing so poorly.
I see sadly, Procrustes is alive and well, though in some circles, still hiding in the shadows. While the Cravath method does weed out who can make partner, I wonder once that is achieved, if that partner honestly sees this as worth it. Material and prestige gained, but nevertheless, at what cost? Moreover, those who do not make the cut have to settle - via this very method- with hopefully, the consolation prize of what it takes to make partner, along with the experience, and training to do so. Yet, again, at what cost? Both sides are basically trying to fit in a standardized and rigid cookie cutter model, at the cost of who the person is and what they could also be doing as they try to climb the corporate (or legal) ladder, i.e., “If the only way for me to get promoted is to suck up to a biased manager, I have to figure out any way I can to suck up,” Mr. Buckingham said. “If you could remove the bias, I can find a reliable way to look at you.” I wonder what type of Theseus will (have to) come about to provide socioeconomic equilibrium to this system.
Work hours for analysts and associates in investment banking have dropped very substantially -- the problem is that the drop is from 100-110 hours per week (hard to believe but true) to70-80 hours most weeks with protected weekends and all sorts of time off that didn't exist three years ago.. Still when analysts look at their friends working 40 hour weeks, they think their work lives are out of control. While they earn twice as much (or more) than friends, they still resent the deal they knowingly made. Everyone knows investment banking is a lifestyle choice, but somehow new hires focus on the income and forget the hours. There has been an improvement, but it isn't appreciated.
4
In the rat race, even if you win, you are still a rat.
As for the rank and file, we are back in the 19th century.
But the American dream lives on.
As for the rank and file, we are back in the 19th century.
But the American dream lives on.
2
A 90% top tax rate would not only allow us to give tax breaks to actual workers, but would be a complete disincentive to breakneck hours and dog-eat-dogism. If it was good enough for Eisenhower, it is good enough for us now.
19
Now that so many white-collar workers are suffering inhumane treatment by corporate overlords, it's time they join with their blue-collar brethren to rat those finks out to the U.S. Labor Department, sue them with the help of good lawyers and unite to form strong labor unions -- just like our beloved, brave grandparents did. Corporations will never volunteer to improve working conditions. It's the role of our legal system and labor unions to force change. Workers faced horrendous working conditions in the early decades of the 1900s and fought to fix it. We can do it again.
15
A well known if coach says 'Success without connection is the ultimate failure'. I learned that early on. Now at 29 years old, I have a well paid career in commercial real estate, have a wife, spend time with nephew and family and have not joined any rat race I read in here daily. That is success.
8
Having just survived a twenty seven year management stint at one of America's largest corporations, I am sorry to report that todays work environment is dismal at best. The company must hit it's quarterly Wall Street target at all costs. If this means we need to cut an additional five hundred employees we didn't originally plan to, so be it. If this means the remaining people in impacted departments need to take on 20 percent more work, so be it. Even when you're a survivor, you need to deal with the extra work in an environment of short sightedness, stress and intimidation. I purposely avoided multiple opportunities to supervise teams in the last years of my career there, to avoid the wrenching process of deciding which employees to lay off every other quarter. We don't lay people off anymore in America by the way because it's a fiscal emergency. Layoffs are now a management tool to reduce costs. We make a minimal effort to retrain and transfer these waves of corporate victims. Why do that when you can hire a cheap relacement from college or outsource to Asia? When an early retirement offer came along I grabbed it without hesitation.
138
I've found that putting in 40 *productive* hours a week is challenging. What I mean by that, is that I'm at the top of my game for each of those 40 workhours. In any one workday the first 6 hours are super productive, the next 2 hours a bit less, and anything after that is about half of what it was. So, the longer I work, the less effective I am at my tasks.
Where I saw hours really adding up was with managers who spent a lot of time coordinating with others or traveling.
Oddly, when I'm working on an absorbing project, I don't WANT to stop and go home. I'm so excited that I just want to keep at it for several days, and then take a few days away from the job. But, our 9-6 M-F work schedules don't allow this natural rhythm, and global work teams sometimes means that we have to be there after hours or during "core hours" so that our teammates can find us.
There's also the demon of multitasking, working on too many projects at once, and feeling scattered as a result. I don't feel that this results in a higher quality work product or better outcomes. But that's harder to measure than things like "ROI", so it goes largely unnoticed.
Where I saw hours really adding up was with managers who spent a lot of time coordinating with others or traveling.
Oddly, when I'm working on an absorbing project, I don't WANT to stop and go home. I'm so excited that I just want to keep at it for several days, and then take a few days away from the job. But, our 9-6 M-F work schedules don't allow this natural rhythm, and global work teams sometimes means that we have to be there after hours or during "core hours" so that our teammates can find us.
There's also the demon of multitasking, working on too many projects at once, and feeling scattered as a result. I don't feel that this results in a higher quality work product or better outcomes. But that's harder to measure than things like "ROI", so it goes largely unnoticed.
5
If you wanted a decent job, but didn't want to live this lifestyle, what should you do? What companies or professions should you consider?
2
Find a good government or nonprofit organization, or a private company that treats its employees well and doesn't have to answer to stockholders. Or start your own business and treat your employees as you would like to be treated.
The problem with this model is that trully brilliant, talented people can get jobs elsewhere and they do. Companies can end up with so-so workers whose primary talent is backstabbing and bullying.
3
It's just greed. That's it. Nothing more.
6
Employees should be promoted on merit, accomplishment, and hard work, not on brown-nosing or flirtatiousness (the latter is not gender specific). Self confidence earned through accomplishment should be encouraged; self confidence founded in bluster should not.
Workers should be allowed to balance work and family, but should recognize that the work does need to get done, and that those who take too great advantage of work-life balance policies may be placing a burden on their colleagues back at the office. Putting in long hours should be one, but certainly not the only, consideration at merit-raise time. Those with personal desires or obligations should not have to sacrifice their careers, even if their careers may advance a bit more slowly.
Data driven employee evaluation has value, but incessant monitoring of both important and trivial aspects of performance, so very possible with today’s technology, is horribly counter-productive.
Office politics is the enemy of an effective and productive workplace; tools which enable it must be used with great caution, if at all.
The original article on Amazon closes with the observation “there is no middle ground.” This is false. Compromise is crucial, and there can be a happy medium, and a workplace that is innovative, productive, and happy.
Workers should be allowed to balance work and family, but should recognize that the work does need to get done, and that those who take too great advantage of work-life balance policies may be placing a burden on their colleagues back at the office. Putting in long hours should be one, but certainly not the only, consideration at merit-raise time. Those with personal desires or obligations should not have to sacrifice their careers, even if their careers may advance a bit more slowly.
Data driven employee evaluation has value, but incessant monitoring of both important and trivial aspects of performance, so very possible with today’s technology, is horribly counter-productive.
Office politics is the enemy of an effective and productive workplace; tools which enable it must be used with great caution, if at all.
The original article on Amazon closes with the observation “there is no middle ground.” This is false. Compromise is crucial, and there can be a happy medium, and a workplace that is innovative, productive, and happy.
5
I have a few neighbors whose sons and daughters have entered this rat race. Based on their comments, they appear proud that their off-spring are doing so well in New York and take pride in the number hours they are putting in to make it to the top. Reading these articles, you do wonder, if climbing this corporate ladder, that at some point, those on the ladder find out that they are on the wrong wall.
3
This caught my eye:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/us/route-29-batman-who-thrilled-sick-c...
Note Mr Robinson was a 'businessman'. What were his priorities?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/us/route-29-batman-who-thrilled-sick-c...
Note Mr Robinson was a 'businessman'. What were his priorities?
3
I know a woman, a Harvard law graduate, who recently made partner at a major East Coast firm. She has always put in grueling 80 hour work weeks and now makes a 7 figure salary. Good for her. But she is rounding 50, is single with no partner or family. Spending time with her you realize that, as she has attained her professional ambitions, she has turned her mind to personal ones, her major goal being landing the richest WASPy banker she can find and joining the Hamptons jet-set. On a personal level she is self-serving, evaluating people purely on the basis of how they can serve her needs. Needless to say, she is not the nicest person you'll meet, but she is her employer's *dream*. How will this play out in the end? Yes, she is a success by many people's standards, but she will likely die alone, probably loved by few, in multimillion dollar home surrounded by material wealth soon to be forgotten. I would rather have time for my children, my spouse, parents, yoga, maybe writing a book, learning and travel with a fraction of her wealth and prestige than have her life any day of the week.
16
Objection. Asked & Answered. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" People should seek more than titles and riches. Say no when that's all that's offered.
3
Anyone who thinks what Jeff Bezos or anyone else promises regarding work-life balance is simply naive. As long as 20-somethings can smell the big money and prestige, there will always be a large group who will chase that prize and discount any of the risks. All that extra time may not appear on time sheets, but it will be worked so one looks that much more productive than all the rest. As far as the constant churn, Google the term "9-Block" and take a look at a very popular rating distribution form in use today. No matter how good the individuals are, at least one of them ALWAYS has to be plugged into Block 1, Termination Risk. It works well when applied over hundreds of employees, not so much in departments with a handful of great employees. One of them ALWAYS is in the process of being "managed out".
1
Nine to Five work is very boring and actually creates a divide between husband and wife. Was already depicted in one of the Seinfeld shows 20 years ago ("How was your day to day?"). Creativity does not have a watch.
But Republicans, especially everyone of their presidential hopefuls, support "right to work" laws, demonize unions and are out to destroy them along with workers rights, and decry Democrats for thinking the "nanny state" government of dependency has all the answers to the peoples problems.
So what do these low-information poor working class slobs say? They think someone like The Donald will help them get a good job. Well, until you have the working poor, many of whom inhabit regressive taxing Southern Red States, catch on to this charade the average American will be forever attempting to row upstream without a paddle and wonder why they're not getting anywhere.
From the looks of it, the mindset of the GOP rank and file seems to indicate we may be waiting a very long time before they get a clue as to the detritus they're being spoon fed, and left wanting more. Their wake-up call appears generations away.
The Donald has a building on the corner of Fifth Avenue and Fifty-Seventh Street he'd like to sell you. Buyers beware.
DD
Manhattan
So what do these low-information poor working class slobs say? They think someone like The Donald will help them get a good job. Well, until you have the working poor, many of whom inhabit regressive taxing Southern Red States, catch on to this charade the average American will be forever attempting to row upstream without a paddle and wonder why they're not getting anywhere.
From the looks of it, the mindset of the GOP rank and file seems to indicate we may be waiting a very long time before they get a clue as to the detritus they're being spoon fed, and left wanting more. Their wake-up call appears generations away.
The Donald has a building on the corner of Fifth Avenue and Fifty-Seventh Street he'd like to sell you. Buyers beware.
DD
Manhattan
3
Most people don't know they have a choice - the hyper-competitiveness in the corporate world is purely a corporate manifestation. As the article points out -- too many ambitious people for too few senior leadership slots. So they claw each other to death vying for them.
I work in a Big Four professional services firm in a modestly senior role and see people scrambling to over-achieve - calls starting at 6 am, ending at 9 or 10 pm. I make a fine salary/bonus - perfectly comfortable. But I amp up my income by focusing on outside investments. So do my friends - it's much easier, much more comfortable and you can do it in a way that fits into your lifestyle. And last year, I made more than the average partner at the firm. And I get to see my family.
About seven years ago, I formed a partnership with a like-minded fellow to open restaurants in Colorado. We opened two, bought a building - he ran them, and then we sold them. Now we're looking at the next round of investment. The best part is, I can visit Colorado, and it feels like a vacation each time, we have so much fun working on these projects.
If you can extricate your head from the corporate mind-set, accept a comfortable job with benefits, and then focus on wealth creating externally in a way that suits your lifestyle, you can have great success, and live your life as well.
I work in a Big Four professional services firm in a modestly senior role and see people scrambling to over-achieve - calls starting at 6 am, ending at 9 or 10 pm. I make a fine salary/bonus - perfectly comfortable. But I amp up my income by focusing on outside investments. So do my friends - it's much easier, much more comfortable and you can do it in a way that fits into your lifestyle. And last year, I made more than the average partner at the firm. And I get to see my family.
About seven years ago, I formed a partnership with a like-minded fellow to open restaurants in Colorado. We opened two, bought a building - he ran them, and then we sold them. Now we're looking at the next round of investment. The best part is, I can visit Colorado, and it feels like a vacation each time, we have so much fun working on these projects.
If you can extricate your head from the corporate mind-set, accept a comfortable job with benefits, and then focus on wealth creating externally in a way that suits your lifestyle, you can have great success, and live your life as well.
38
Thank you for your insight. Very wise, and balanced.
1
The problem isn't the Amazon or Cravath or Goldman exception. If someone wants to apply their ambition in this way, it's their choice. The problem is when it starts to bleed into the workplace culture at-large. That's not where we are supposed to be going as a society.
104
Between this article and the in-depth coverage of the culture at Amazon, it seems the oligarchical/ plebeian society has found it's way into our work psyche ... scary and sad. You can't put a price tag on time, self esteem, and a sense of self outside of the workforce.
2
Why doesn't Amazon just cut to the chase and post a sign above the portal of its HQ, and all of its Dickensian human warehouses "Work Shall Make You Free"?
What puzzles me is that many of my friends. most of whom I consider fairly intelligent types, buy and continue to be bought and brought into Bezos web of slave centers designed to cater to their every whim. Customers are positively thrilled with The Amazon Way. So efficient, so user-friendly, they just can't seem to get enough of The Amazon and its Fuhrer Bezos mantra of making sure "the trains (drones) run on time."
As if putting workers under enormous stress wasn't enough, to top it off this modifier of the modern day sweat shop, Bezos has the sheer gall to label Amazon's human warehouses "Fulfillment Centers". Well, I've just about heard it all.
Fulfillment Centers. The Final Solution for all of our conspicuous consumption of rubbish woes.
Goebbels would be proud.
DD
Manhattan
What puzzles me is that many of my friends. most of whom I consider fairly intelligent types, buy and continue to be bought and brought into Bezos web of slave centers designed to cater to their every whim. Customers are positively thrilled with The Amazon Way. So efficient, so user-friendly, they just can't seem to get enough of The Amazon and its Fuhrer Bezos mantra of making sure "the trains (drones) run on time."
As if putting workers under enormous stress wasn't enough, to top it off this modifier of the modern day sweat shop, Bezos has the sheer gall to label Amazon's human warehouses "Fulfillment Centers". Well, I've just about heard it all.
Fulfillment Centers. The Final Solution for all of our conspicuous consumption of rubbish woes.
Goebbels would be proud.
DD
Manhattan
7
I worked for 4 years at a top-tier law firm. For the record, I'd graduated with honors from every school I'd ever attended, turned down two top-4 law schools (including Harvard, I'm sad to say) to attend the one that I chose, had high grades in law school, and was offered a job by every prestigious firm at which I interviewed. In short, I was qualified. I went to a big firm for one reason: to pay off my student loans.
Work/family balance is only one challenge that big firm lawyers face. As another article in today's NYT reports, the lawyers who control such firms exhibit an unconscious bias against minority attorneys. That bias extends to women. Both groups are judged by a different standard: expected to fall short, their deficiencies are magnified, and few make partner. (The best big firm career path for women and minorities may be employment law because, when accused of discrimination, employers prefer to be defended by a member of the plaintiff's protected group.)
Not surprisingly, given the brutal competition, covert prejudice and denial of human emotional and social needs that characterize big firm cultures, passive aggression, covert sadism and masochistic self-criticism abound. Drug abuse (to stay awake, to cope with anxiety and depression) is rampant, as is covert alcohol abuse. In short, many big firm workplaces are "sick."
Good work does not require that we live out "Lord of the Flies." Big firm partners will say, "Oh, not us." I was there, boys. Yes, you.
Work/family balance is only one challenge that big firm lawyers face. As another article in today's NYT reports, the lawyers who control such firms exhibit an unconscious bias against minority attorneys. That bias extends to women. Both groups are judged by a different standard: expected to fall short, their deficiencies are magnified, and few make partner. (The best big firm career path for women and minorities may be employment law because, when accused of discrimination, employers prefer to be defended by a member of the plaintiff's protected group.)
Not surprisingly, given the brutal competition, covert prejudice and denial of human emotional and social needs that characterize big firm cultures, passive aggression, covert sadism and masochistic self-criticism abound. Drug abuse (to stay awake, to cope with anxiety and depression) is rampant, as is covert alcohol abuse. In short, many big firm workplaces are "sick."
Good work does not require that we live out "Lord of the Flies." Big firm partners will say, "Oh, not us." I was there, boys. Yes, you.
6
I'm skeptical of people who talk a lot about "work life balance." It's not that I disagree with the concept. It's that often people misuse it.
.
I saw a blog post by an architect a while back. This guy claims that he refuses to work more than a 40 hour week. He says that at his first job, with a big firm, he used to leave his contract on his desk, open to the page about expected work hours, and if someone asked him to stay late he would show it to them. But what If the deadline is tomorrow, and the drawings need some work? You're just going to say "no thanks," walk out the door, and leave your team mates to finish everything?
.
But I'm also skeptical from a management standpoint. When top management says "we're going to implement work life balance policies around here," often it is unsaid that employees are expected to work faster, and finish the same amount of work in less time. The next round of layoffs targets careful people, who check their work before turning it in. They're inefficient.
.
Finally, I question whether competition is really the reason for long hours. I work at a tiny firm. It's just me, three other people, and the husband and wife partners. We're not clamoring over each other to get ahead. But I still answer emails after midnight sometimes. Why? Mostly because if I don't answer emails when they come in, I'll just have to answer them the next day - and I'll have that hanging over my head as I got to bed.
.
I saw a blog post by an architect a while back. This guy claims that he refuses to work more than a 40 hour week. He says that at his first job, with a big firm, he used to leave his contract on his desk, open to the page about expected work hours, and if someone asked him to stay late he would show it to them. But what If the deadline is tomorrow, and the drawings need some work? You're just going to say "no thanks," walk out the door, and leave your team mates to finish everything?
.
But I'm also skeptical from a management standpoint. When top management says "we're going to implement work life balance policies around here," often it is unsaid that employees are expected to work faster, and finish the same amount of work in less time. The next round of layoffs targets careful people, who check their work before turning it in. They're inefficient.
.
Finally, I question whether competition is really the reason for long hours. I work at a tiny firm. It's just me, three other people, and the husband and wife partners. We're not clamoring over each other to get ahead. But I still answer emails after midnight sometimes. Why? Mostly because if I don't answer emails when they come in, I'll just have to answer them the next day - and I'll have that hanging over my head as I got to bed.
5
It's one thing to stay late because you have work to do. I do that frequently. I can get more done when other folks have left for the day.
It's another to stay late because you can't be seen going home at a decent time.
It's still another to stay late because your manager has put unreasonable expectations on you.
It's another to stay late because you can't be seen going home at a decent time.
It's still another to stay late because your manager has put unreasonable expectations on you.
Mr. Bezos' only defense is that the worker can 'leave if they don't like it".
Challenge this with a followup article on how many H1b employees they have. The H1b employee is held hostage due to the employer 'holding' their passport. If the H1b complains, they are sent back to their country of origin.
American citizens are held hostage due to the number of H1b visas issued for jobs that Americans are trying to get. We can't just leave a job because there are 1,000 H1b workers waiting to get that job.
Look at the dark belly of this practice and tell the unbiased truth for once.
Challenge this with a followup article on how many H1b employees they have. The H1b employee is held hostage due to the employer 'holding' their passport. If the H1b complains, they are sent back to their country of origin.
American citizens are held hostage due to the number of H1b visas issued for jobs that Americans are trying to get. We can't just leave a job because there are 1,000 H1b workers waiting to get that job.
Look at the dark belly of this practice and tell the unbiased truth for once.
17
Leave it to the old grey lady to find some grim news in otherwise good news about "Work"! Why shouldn't there be brutal competition in the workplace, when meanspiritedness has been engulfing our roads, our transportation networks, our ever getting louder media, when ironically our crime levels have been supposedly coming down?! The philosopher Wilhelm Reich once wrote, and I paraphrase, that Work and Love should be a hallmark of our lives, and they should both govern it! Me thinks, we need a little more of that Love! But then again, it's All About THE MONEY, at a time when more and more people want a piece of the pie! Sad and pitiful, but it's not those horrible 1950's and 1960's anymore?!!!
People start jobs at top tier law firms and financial firms knowing exactly what is expected of them. They make the choice willingly with eyes wide open. They may later regret the choice or decide to try to find a a job with a different lifestyle balance. That is their choice, but so is the choice to stay, do what it takes and try to get the prize. Why is this anything other than people having free will and the right to exercise it? Some people want to try to make partner at Goldman, and some people want to work at the post office or become teachers to get summers off.
6
Working in corporate is a joke. The talented hard working people do all the work, without overtime. While the clueless exec's have money fights and play golf badly.
4
Workers do what they are measured on, period. If it is "hours at work," they do that. If it is "ringing the register," (which is the only reason to be in business), they sell, sell, sell. Or, if they are very good at their jobs, they can go anywhere they choose. Some people may not recognize that. If you are good at your job, you can get ahead in the way you want. If not, you are subject to the whims of idiots called "management." I have seen a handful of people who know how to manage people and projects. Mostly, you see empty suits with a list of measured goals who try to make you into one of them. This is why you walk out the door--sometimes with no notice if the situation is obnoxious. Too bad; you want talent, pay for it. This thing about "world markets" is a joke. Just because people in other countries work for nothing doesn't mean YOU have to. Learn your job and be better at it than your boss--pretty easy in these days of swinging-door upper management. As these incompetent people flit from company to company reaping billions, let them go. From what I have seen, they are mostly very sad people who have no lives. Personally, I have enjoyed my jobs and my life so far, and I intend to keep doing so. Any "boss" who doesn't like it can shove it. My life is much more important to me than your spreadsheet, which I probably have to teach you to read anyway.
3
Most of us are very familiar with the working conditions described as existing at Amazon.
We see some level of it in our own workplace, and more often than not, in the current economic environment, few object, due to the fear that is contiuosly engendered, by the Bezos like CEO's and their ever present psycophants.
The avariciousness and grab it all mentality prevalent in the corporate hierarchy, is almost impossible to battle, which is why, especially here in the United States, we are experiencing historic inequality, with no real interest by the .01%ters to acknowledge it, let alone begin to change it.
As in all things, this culture will die ignominiously, as more and more of the proletariat take heart, and push back.
The unknown is whether the push back will be a very bloody upheaval.
The .01%ters would be well advised to take note.
We see some level of it in our own workplace, and more often than not, in the current economic environment, few object, due to the fear that is contiuosly engendered, by the Bezos like CEO's and their ever present psycophants.
The avariciousness and grab it all mentality prevalent in the corporate hierarchy, is almost impossible to battle, which is why, especially here in the United States, we are experiencing historic inequality, with no real interest by the .01%ters to acknowledge it, let alone begin to change it.
As in all things, this culture will die ignominiously, as more and more of the proletariat take heart, and push back.
The unknown is whether the push back will be a very bloody upheaval.
The .01%ters would be well advised to take note.
4
And this Darwinian business model is focused at Amazon - not on creating a better world or promoting a more consequential life - but on delivering that package to customers a day or hour sooner than the competition. What a waste of talent and energy and what an indictment of our values as a society.
11
Thus vanishes the middle class, which ever was, in fact, only the upper echelon of the working class.
4
The truth we face is that there are few if any options for those who don't want to participate in the traditional economy. Not so long ago, one could choose to live in a small town and make a nominal living and still have a good life. But those options are dwindling. We are in a new era where corporations have won are in control. They set the agenda for politicians, decide workplace rules without the interference of unions, and are rapidly expanding their control through organizations like ALEC. It is not very nice for human beings.
If we want a different life we must choose again. That means we must accept the hard work of educating people, organizing and voting. It is unfortunate that our energies must be diverted to combating corporate tyranny when there are so many pressing issues. But what choice is there really? Every generation is presented with new challenges. Greed is not a sustainable organizing principle for society. Let us choose again.
If we want a different life we must choose again. That means we must accept the hard work of educating people, organizing and voting. It is unfortunate that our energies must be diverted to combating corporate tyranny when there are so many pressing issues. But what choice is there really? Every generation is presented with new challenges. Greed is not a sustainable organizing principle for society. Let us choose again.
10
Kinder policies at work do not directly translate into being less competitive. In fact, high employee morale is consistent with productivity and therefore competition. Kinder policies and high standards for employees are not mutually exclusive. The problem is human management weakness coupled with the inability to delay gratification.
5
Not a thought to creativity
Nothing of a smile
Work, work, work
To climb the heap
All to feel worth while
A hollow fate awaits you
At the end you'll know
You accomplished nothing
But a pile of dough
Sorry, sorry, sorry
It's misdirected urge
Nothing of a smile
Work, work, work
To climb the heap
All to feel worth while
A hollow fate awaits you
At the end you'll know
You accomplished nothing
But a pile of dough
Sorry, sorry, sorry
It's misdirected urge
2
The article frames the problems with the Cravath system - variants of which are found in many non-law workplaces - in the context of a climb to the top.
It would be more meaningful to frame it in terms of economic and social stability. Not everyone wants to be managing partner or CEO. Just as although the general gets the stars, the GIs are the army, a company can't function without people whose focus is not on climbing the ladder but on doing the work.
Contrary to Prof. Henderson's concluding comment, companies do commonly 'rank and yank' - that is, tell a department head that he must fire the 'bottom' 10% of his staff once a year. (Supposedly objective criteria may then be gamed to get rid of older workers, or someone who's developed an expensive chronic illness, or someone who is simply 'not well liked'.) The other workers' reward is that they haven't been fired - this time.
The competition is not climbing the ladder, it's clinging on or getting pushed off.
Musical-chairs management has been going on for a long time, in a lot of companies. Economists who are fond of quoting Joseph Schumpeter's 'creative destruction' to justify it often forget the context in which Schumpeter said that: as I recall, he was referring to the inherent instability and inevitable destruction of capitalism, which would then be supplanted by some form of socialism (which would also decline, these things being cyclical).
You can beat a mule just so much before it kicks, friends.
It would be more meaningful to frame it in terms of economic and social stability. Not everyone wants to be managing partner or CEO. Just as although the general gets the stars, the GIs are the army, a company can't function without people whose focus is not on climbing the ladder but on doing the work.
Contrary to Prof. Henderson's concluding comment, companies do commonly 'rank and yank' - that is, tell a department head that he must fire the 'bottom' 10% of his staff once a year. (Supposedly objective criteria may then be gamed to get rid of older workers, or someone who's developed an expensive chronic illness, or someone who is simply 'not well liked'.) The other workers' reward is that they haven't been fired - this time.
The competition is not climbing the ladder, it's clinging on or getting pushed off.
Musical-chairs management has been going on for a long time, in a lot of companies. Economists who are fond of quoting Joseph Schumpeter's 'creative destruction' to justify it often forget the context in which Schumpeter said that: as I recall, he was referring to the inherent instability and inevitable destruction of capitalism, which would then be supplanted by some form of socialism (which would also decline, these things being cyclical).
You can beat a mule just so much before it kicks, friends.
3
This is overpopulation. It will only get worse.
1
How much does the brutal competition involved in capitalism, the bedrock value of corporations involve greed? How much wealth is enough? How many hours of work is enough? How many projects are enough? Where does the measurement that metrics and digital data derive begin to erode the basics of family life/communities, etc? How much more must shareholders earn? How long must the CEO remain in the headlines? How big must the company become?
There is no end to these questions when greed overcomes other principles and values. Greed corrupts. Eric Fromm said "Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." What need do we have for Amazon or Walmart goods, Apple, etc., that waste human resources in conflict and competition to beat one another, step over each other, castigate one another, or to want to beat every country in the world in whatever is the clamor for today? Schools in the US are failing and many are without supplies, people are without employment while some robot builds what people used to; health is challenged by expectations and stressors at work and at home. If anyone thinks this is leading somewhere better for the majority of people, I suggest we think again. Its not being kinder; its being human. We are not machines to be utilized meeting some continuously climbing bottom line without attention to the needs of a human body, mind and soul. These gains will be the downfall of us all.
There is no end to these questions when greed overcomes other principles and values. Greed corrupts. Eric Fromm said "Greed is a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." What need do we have for Amazon or Walmart goods, Apple, etc., that waste human resources in conflict and competition to beat one another, step over each other, castigate one another, or to want to beat every country in the world in whatever is the clamor for today? Schools in the US are failing and many are without supplies, people are without employment while some robot builds what people used to; health is challenged by expectations and stressors at work and at home. If anyone thinks this is leading somewhere better for the majority of people, I suggest we think again. Its not being kinder; its being human. We are not machines to be utilized meeting some continuously climbing bottom line without attention to the needs of a human body, mind and soul. These gains will be the downfall of us all.
5
Interesting because just yesterday my daughter, a newly minted registered nurse, was complaining that work is so stressful, it is enough just taking care of your patients properly (when you are almost always understaffed) but on top of that, there are all sorts of ratings and metrics for patient satisfaction, noise level, cleanliness etc that the nurses are also responsible for. The pressure comes from upper management down, and it never ends. Not to mention, she works a 12 hour shift and they aren't even allowed to leave the floor to go to cafeteria for lunch. They eat in the back room and have to answer phone/call bell/patients during their 1/2 hour lunch break (total). I am a nurse and did hospital nursing in the 80s and 90s. It was hard, but our managers had our backs and we were able to leave the floor to eat lunch, a welcome rest during an extremely stressful job. What is going on now in hospitals is horrible and the bean counters and people on the top need to answer for it. Its not just in business, and as someone previously commented, teachers are also feeling the pressure in teaching jobs.
8
We all need to make our own choices in life, among them, do you live to work or do you work to live? I very consciously chosen the latter, but to achieve what I wanted as my work/life balance required me to freelance and eventually start my own company. For me it was the best choice I ever made. I was/am a single parent, the kids are off to college now. I was able to arrange my schedule so I could chaperone on school field trips when my kids were young. I worked from home so even if I wanted to work through the night, which I did often, I could still do it at home.
I was fortunate enough to have a skill I could peddle on my own without a corporate task master. I did earn well when I was employed by a large AD Agency. It was the backbiting office politics and petty gossip which turned my stomach and led me to the freelance path. Apparently some people live for such confusion and maliciousness. Unfortunately such catty behavior permeates society so that it has become the norm.
I was fortunate enough to have a skill I could peddle on my own without a corporate task master. I did earn well when I was employed by a large AD Agency. It was the backbiting office politics and petty gossip which turned my stomach and led me to the freelance path. Apparently some people live for such confusion and maliciousness. Unfortunately such catty behavior permeates society so that it has become the norm.
3
This is a very important topic to explore. I would love to enjoy my weekends off, and typically I do. However, all too often I end up working - even a few hours, on Saturday and/or Sunday. I'm 34 and the competition in NYC is fierce. I moved here from Chicago - which can be quite competitive, but not nearly as NYC. It is a constant race to the top. I have an MBA and am completing a Law degree. At this level, the applicant pool is definitely smaller, but still fierce. Additionally, I constantly heard from my African American parents, who were very successful, it's going to be more of a challenge for you, so get ready. A message commonly echoed in our community. The pressure can be gruesome.
2
This phenomenon of extremely high salaries was first characterized by the distinguished economist, Sherwin Rosen, in a classic article called The Economics of Superstars. Other economists, including Professor Robert Frank, popularized his ideas. Professor Rosen also showed the effects of hierarchy in accounting for such salaries. Because CEOs are responsible for allocating vast amounts of resources in the American economy, there is a highly competitive market for their services. With Professor Edward Lazear, he also modeled the role of tournaments in allocating scarce managerial positions in a corporation.
Of course, the downside of this extreme competition is that it kills cooperation and teamwork. It engenders the attitude of "I'm out for myself, and the heck with everybody else." For vivid examples, read the plays of David Mamet, such as "Glenn Garry, Glenn Ross."
Of course, the downside of this extreme competition is that it kills cooperation and teamwork. It engenders the attitude of "I'm out for myself, and the heck with everybody else." For vivid examples, read the plays of David Mamet, such as "Glenn Garry, Glenn Ross."
1
Creative innovation comes from workers who have space to think abstractly, who have energy, and feel a connection to their place of work. Sooner or later, I have to think that this is going to hurt Amazon's growth. Other similar mega companies are not pushing happier work places and more flexible schedules because they are nice. They are doing it because employees are an investment. Constantly having to on-board new staff as employees burn out is an unnecessary expense.
The Fire phone felt really disjointed to me, like it hadn't been fully thought through. I was confused when it came out why Amazon thought that a glorified selling device would be competitive with the iPhone. Now hearing about the company culture, though, it actually fits. Everything at Amazon is sell-sell-sell with no thought towards people, even the people using their products.
The Fire phone felt really disjointed to me, like it hadn't been fully thought through. I was confused when it came out why Amazon thought that a glorified selling device would be competitive with the iPhone. Now hearing about the company culture, though, it actually fits. Everything at Amazon is sell-sell-sell with no thought towards people, even the people using their products.
5
So what is the alternative? A less competitive company will find that what it sells is not valued as highly as a firm that is more competitive. The less competitive firm will lose market share, it will need to trim the total number of employees and will ultimately either be gobbled up or close.
We are a part of nature. What the corporate world looks like is what the rest of nature looks like. Nature is not kind. Survival of the group requires that the weakest will die or be very subservient.
The author wants to have you think about some alternative. But what would that look like? Perhaps the old Soviet Union would be the model. Third rate products, scarcity, and little hope for a better life.
The system we have is cruel and takes no prisoners. But it works.
We are a part of nature. What the corporate world looks like is what the rest of nature looks like. Nature is not kind. Survival of the group requires that the weakest will die or be very subservient.
The author wants to have you think about some alternative. But what would that look like? Perhaps the old Soviet Union would be the model. Third rate products, scarcity, and little hope for a better life.
The system we have is cruel and takes no prisoners. But it works.
1
Because that brutal competition produced such wonderful results out of the bowels of Goldman, Merrill and the law firms that serve them.
Amazon has yet to turn any sort of profit.
I don't know who this reporter was talking to but Microsoft has a terrible time recruiting (I'm a software engineer). They're changing their culture because it isn't working (MS is far less relevant than they once were) and because they have a well deserved reputation for being a bloodsport workplace, people under the age of 40 don't want to work there.
The bloodsport model is, to my mind, the major factor responsible for the downfall of Dell.
It reminds me of the old lawyer's line: When the truth is on your side, pound the truth, when the law is on your side, pound the law and when neither are on your side pound the table. The bloodsport culture is the ultimate in table pounding.
Lastly, this article dances around the real problem... greed. We Americans (I'm an American) have to be in the top three of the greediest people on the planet. We'll bury our family, our friends and our dogs just to have an extra nickel to buy more status stuff or to make our offering at the alter of the cult of busy. We've become a sad, small and pathetic people.
Amazon has yet to turn any sort of profit.
I don't know who this reporter was talking to but Microsoft has a terrible time recruiting (I'm a software engineer). They're changing their culture because it isn't working (MS is far less relevant than they once were) and because they have a well deserved reputation for being a bloodsport workplace, people under the age of 40 don't want to work there.
The bloodsport model is, to my mind, the major factor responsible for the downfall of Dell.
It reminds me of the old lawyer's line: When the truth is on your side, pound the truth, when the law is on your side, pound the law and when neither are on your side pound the table. The bloodsport culture is the ultimate in table pounding.
Lastly, this article dances around the real problem... greed. We Americans (I'm an American) have to be in the top three of the greediest people on the planet. We'll bury our family, our friends and our dogs just to have an extra nickel to buy more status stuff or to make our offering at the alter of the cult of busy. We've become a sad, small and pathetic people.
11
It is odd to see the country's, and perhaps the world's, greatest newspaper, bemoaning workplace ambition and condoning employee mediocrity. I very much doubt the Times newsroom is a kinder, gentler place, where the star reporters hold back so that their less able counterparts can catch up. I also doubt that second rate reporters, editors etc. last very long at the Times. If the aim is cutting edge reporting and analysis, do readers want (a) reporters who follow a story, day and night, weekend and weekday, glued to their iPhone or Blackberry, whether or not their colleagues can keep up, or (b) reporters who dawdle and accept the explanations given them, without diligence, if it better preserves their work/life balance. No sane person would criticize a workplace like Amazon's, if it were a 'Manhattan Project"-type effort to cure cancer once and for all. I expect the real issue for commentators, is that (a) curing cancer does not equal (b) delivering the doll from Frozen in 23 minutes or less.
47
Amazon's feeding of the Consumer Beast links well with the disposable society our worldwide corporate policy dictates. How else can deeply indebted working families consume so much they must rent storage spaces to hold the excess? Multiple industries would collapse if the public stops rampant consumer therapy and stops training the next generation to wallow in things. The packaging industry would collapse along with storage business and the waste industry and just think of the new Drone Delivery industry. George Carlin explained it to us years ago...We work to pay for stuff then we need to work harder to pay for a space to hold our stuff and then we work even harder for extra space to hold extra stuff and then we work hard to pay for someone to throw out all of Mom and Dad's excess crap now that they are gone.
The competitive workplace advocate ignores the reality that teamwork usually produces better results. Or haven't you noticed that some of the best NYT articles have more than one name under the title?
I guess there's no grey area right? You either devote your entire being to your work, or you're second rate? Balderdash!
I'd rather work with Kitness Everdin at the Hunger Games. Seems like a better work environment than some of these places named in the article.
1
“If the only way for me to get promoted is to suck up to a biased manager, I have to figure out any way I can to suck up,” - NEVER underestimate the value in the skill of sucking up. Some are naturals but the rest of us should learn it in our MBA programs. Of particular importance is knowing to whom one should suck up and when. The complementary skill of course is backstabbing, also a special skill not all are good at. Anyone who masters both these skills should do very well in the corporate world.
3
Winner takes all. And what is the benefit of that? Can the winner enjoy a better life after taking all, or must she expend the rest of her life fighting others that want to take from her what she has won? In Spain we say that this is similar to a context in kindergarten among 3 years old about who can throw a stone farther: It brings no benefits to the winner, save to have to keep throwing stones until someone finds another similar stupid thing to do.
1
If success at a company is measured by an individual's complete immersion and relentless subjugation, even abandonment of hos or her personal life, then the very reason for the company's existence is in question. A company is only as important as what it contributes to society as a whole. Making money may be the goal but if it's the only goal, it cannot stand the test of true human value. Making money by putting employees through abuse and suffering is not a "whole" contribution, rather it's exploitation in which the whole is ignored, meaning the well-being of all. We are at a point in human development where these practices must be recognized and abandoned - once and for all - not escalated, as in Amazon. It creates a destructively ruthless and self-serving mindset that pits individuals against each other which then ripples through society and erodes the cohesiveness and good will of the nation.
2
This article is how it works at RAMSA. The funny thing is that even the people who make junior partner there are unsure of whether they will make enough money to actually retire. Yet the junior partners, just as the senior partners, treat the rest of the staff with contempt. Turnover is high and morale is low. People are alienated from the rest of society and, in general, lead fairly miserable lives.
3
How will we ever get away from this sick (literally, disease-causing) forced march toward success at all costs? It doesn't take more than an afternoon in Oslo, Madrid, even London, to see a different model of a work-life balance that makes for a happier, healthier society.
7
I can't wrap my head around how this is newsworthy. Noam Scheiber may find investment bankers' long hours outrageous and unwise and unwell, but then again Noam Scheiber is not an investment banker and should not concern himself with their grueling work schedules. Ultimately, it's the investment banker's (or tech worker's, whoever..) choice to work in his or her chosen industry, at a given firm, etc. There is no tyranny here, no victimhood.
If you can handle the pressure, and the prize of partnership of a c-suite is worth it to you, wonderful. Competition is a natural selector for greatness, and firms have the right to weed out their employees and hold on to and reward the best ones. If you'd prefer a different work environment, there are other, less demanding—and less bountiful—pastures.
If you can handle the pressure, and the prize of partnership of a c-suite is worth it to you, wonderful. Competition is a natural selector for greatness, and firms have the right to weed out their employees and hold on to and reward the best ones. If you'd prefer a different work environment, there are other, less demanding—and less bountiful—pastures.
In the late 70s and early 80s I was friendly with a young couple who were both attorneys at high-powered firms in NYC. As I recall, these young associates, who both worked the insane hours described in the article, were referred to in-house as "cannon fodder."
I've since lost touch with them but I hope they survived this brutal culling process.
I've since lost touch with them but I hope they survived this brutal culling process.
4
"Brutal" descrices torture, not the workplace of highly successful businesses. This column's narrative is a joke, apparently written by one who would give sports trophies to their children for participating rather than winning. The writer's mindset is one that places little value on personal achievement. The corporations that employed me paid and promoted based on merit. Employees were part of a team, the most talented and ambitious members of the team were most highly rewarded. Employees were evaluated on a regular basis for the purpose of improving their performance, the end game being their improved performance benefitted the corporation resulting in the employee receiving higher income and perhaps promotion. Does that sound "brutal?" I'd suggest that those who don't thrive in this kind of a work environment are either in the wrong company or should seek a different line of less "brutal" work. The Amazons, Apples, Googles, etc. thrive because the standards are the highest and their successful employees meet and continually raise those standards because of the competition for elevated positions and higher compensation. Am I missing something?
2
"Am I missing something?"
Yes. You have to have worked at one of these places, possibly after making big sacrifices to get there, to understand how unmeritocratic and soul-crushing they can be. The people who are hired generally have worked like animals for many years preceding employment. They know the workload will be tough. It's how they're treated that is cause for complaint.
Yes. You have to have worked at one of these places, possibly after making big sacrifices to get there, to understand how unmeritocratic and soul-crushing they can be. The people who are hired generally have worked like animals for many years preceding employment. They know the workload will be tough. It's how they're treated that is cause for complaint.
Let's have a kinder, gentler, two-track system at competitive workplaces: one for touch-feely folks with more time for family and friends but at lower pay, the other for driven folks who want to make it to the top at higher pay. This should satisfy both critics and supporters, bring about domestic harmony, promote the ambitious at work, and pacify both helicopter parents and their millennial progeny.
President Obama should seriously consider initiatives to create a two-track career path and amend Labor laws to make that happen. This is a critical need when only the One Percenter is enjoying all the benefits and the rest struggle to meet ends. It'd also be an object lesson for the hypercompetitive Chinese and Indians on the need for stability and balance in life with the family and help to create an environment where friendship and brotherhood can be promoted for greater good in our communities. It'd be great day when we, irrespective of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and religion, can all come together and sing the kumbaya.
President Obama should seriously consider initiatives to create a two-track career path and amend Labor laws to make that happen. This is a critical need when only the One Percenter is enjoying all the benefits and the rest struggle to meet ends. It'd also be an object lesson for the hypercompetitive Chinese and Indians on the need for stability and balance in life with the family and help to create an environment where friendship and brotherhood can be promoted for greater good in our communities. It'd be great day when we, irrespective of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation and religion, can all come together and sing the kumbaya.
No one would care if those playing this game were all at a couple of firms, but they're not. There are more losers than winners and they have to work somewhere. They take that outsized competition AND a chip on their shoulder for having lost to their next employers and take it out on the employees there. They don't quite get as far as transforming the new place into an Amazon but they do take their resentment out on other employees and in the big picture their employer as well.
These are the people who bear down on you at 70 mph in their SUV demanding you get out of their way rather than passing, moms who mow pedestrians driving their kids in strollers, the ones starting rumors and tattling to condo boards and landlords to get the better parking space or even get the better apartment. They teach their kids to do the same to your kids. No, they don't just keep it at the office.
Last, this is a major contributor to salary stagnation. Not theirs, of course, but yours and mine. Their smug entitlement from having screwed so many over to get to the top, they truly believe all those below them are suckers who deserve what they get and they're there to give it to them.
No exaggeration, I've seen it with my own two eyes heard the words come out of their mouths.
This explains much of the ills in business and politics today.
These are the people who bear down on you at 70 mph in their SUV demanding you get out of their way rather than passing, moms who mow pedestrians driving their kids in strollers, the ones starting rumors and tattling to condo boards and landlords to get the better parking space or even get the better apartment. They teach their kids to do the same to your kids. No, they don't just keep it at the office.
Last, this is a major contributor to salary stagnation. Not theirs, of course, but yours and mine. Their smug entitlement from having screwed so many over to get to the top, they truly believe all those below them are suckers who deserve what they get and they're there to give it to them.
No exaggeration, I've seen it with my own two eyes heard the words come out of their mouths.
This explains much of the ills in business and politics today.
11
>
The new God (i.e., the bottom-line) does not have the same goals, traits, and promises as the older Gods it replaced. This new God, which we created, has all the psychological characteristics of a psychopath, always on the lookout for its next victim.
Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork
And drive the brute off?
Philip Larkin, from "Toads" from The Less Deceived
The new God (i.e., the bottom-line) does not have the same goals, traits, and promises as the older Gods it replaced. This new God, which we created, has all the psychological characteristics of a psychopath, always on the lookout for its next victim.
Why should I let the toad work
Squat on my life?
Can't I use my wit as a pitchfork
And drive the brute off?
Philip Larkin, from "Toads" from The Less Deceived
2
It is unfortunate that this article reminded me of a major American fashion designer I worked for.
Everyone was constantly crying at their desk, people worked 30-40 days in a row and everyone was in a constant state of exhaustion. We were meant to feel as though we should feel lucky we were chosen to work for him!!!
Being treated horribly is not happening only at Amazon or at Wall Street firms. It is alive and well in many major American companies.
Everyone was constantly crying at their desk, people worked 30-40 days in a row and everyone was in a constant state of exhaustion. We were meant to feel as though we should feel lucky we were chosen to work for him!!!
Being treated horribly is not happening only at Amazon or at Wall Street firms. It is alive and well in many major American companies.
118
Then vote with your feet.
I worked in a couple of similar situations in the 80s, which is when I think this approach to the work place in certain professions began (finance in my experience). The deregulation of the financial markets in Britain led to city firms hiring non-traditional employees (i.e. merit based rather than the "old school tie" approach) and for first time in Britain, ordinary working class youth could get work that paid sums of money undreamed of by their parents. The brokerages hired far more people than required and then weeded out the "best" - the ones who would work 80 plus hours a week - and let those who would not go. The workplace was rife with backstabbing and plotting to oust people, much like the system described in the Amazon article. It was brutal and I personally hoped this approach with go away after Reagan and Thatcher but apparently it did not. The story about Amazon was a first rate piece of journalism and it reminded me of certain banks in London during the 1980s.
3
There are 7 billion people on the planet. Double the population of those halcyon days people hark back to, 40 or so years ago, of well-paid factory workers and the like.
Now the UN says as many as 13 billion within 80 years. If you think competition to make a living is "brutal" now -- well, your grandkids' lives will make Hunger Games look like Sesame Street.
Bur keep on having babies and scoffing at population concerns.
Now the UN says as many as 13 billion within 80 years. If you think competition to make a living is "brutal" now -- well, your grandkids' lives will make Hunger Games look like Sesame Street.
Bur keep on having babies and scoffing at population concerns.
It's pretty simple, really. When a very few have all the bananas, they can make the other monkeys dance for their supper.
8
We do live in a capitalistic society...Goldman Sachs is not supposed to be uber competitive????
I am not in the 1% - but is it possible that many in the 1% are actually very talented, work excessively, and have compromised home and family life??? But somehow they do not deserve the financial rewards...
These places are self selective...a small number of people can do the work and will make the sacrifices...
many capable lawyers start out at these firms and they find the pace is not what they want...and they drop off..,that's fine...and some choose to stick it out...
We live in a democratic capitalist system...
It is so funny when the NYT and many readers assume that many successful people work 9-5 and have made no family compromises...workers at Goldman or Cravaith have missed there children's growing up time which happens once...it may be a foolish choice but now you say the should not at least get financial compensation...so naive...
Yes the most successful people in corporate America actually work in a brutally competive environment...I guess that's news when one'spolitical rhetoric is that they are lazy thieves who got there soley through cronyism...
I am not in the 1% - but is it possible that many in the 1% are actually very talented, work excessively, and have compromised home and family life??? But somehow they do not deserve the financial rewards...
These places are self selective...a small number of people can do the work and will make the sacrifices...
many capable lawyers start out at these firms and they find the pace is not what they want...and they drop off..,that's fine...and some choose to stick it out...
We live in a democratic capitalist system...
It is so funny when the NYT and many readers assume that many successful people work 9-5 and have made no family compromises...workers at Goldman or Cravaith have missed there children's growing up time which happens once...it may be a foolish choice but now you say the should not at least get financial compensation...so naive...
Yes the most successful people in corporate America actually work in a brutally competive environment...I guess that's news when one'spolitical rhetoric is that they are lazy thieves who got there soley through cronyism...
1
Where I work, the execs seem to make their T times.
2
This pressure cooker environment is not just in the top tier companies, it's part of every-day life in America. We created an inhumane dog eat dog world with no safety-net and this created a mean spirited people who are grabbing at what they can for themselves in the hopes of a decent survival - money is all that stands between me and and survival - and anyone who takes from me be damned, be they poor, disabled, old or foreign. In the meantime, the ones who really take are the rapacious oligarchs and corporations and the toady senators who shill for them and scare us into sacrificing for their handlers. A jungle is what we must live with in order to supply obscene profits for our "betters."
The best method of creating totalitarianism is to have everyone turn against each other as potential threats to one's well-being. This miserable state we are in is the only "trickle-down" benefit we get from the "benevolent" 1%.
The best method of creating totalitarianism is to have everyone turn against each other as potential threats to one's well-being. This miserable state we are in is the only "trickle-down" benefit we get from the "benevolent" 1%.
From my experience, I would say Aspergers Syndrome could have something to do with it. Aspergers have extreme focus and less empathy. Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg are good examples, and they've become role models for the business ideal in America. It's our choice. Is this really the way we want to live? It's just a new form of slavery. Are we becoming mindless robots?
1
Amazon culture sounds like The Jungle by Upton Sinclair . The only difference is that the line of people waiting to take your job are engineers rather than uneducated immigrants.
5
Face it - in most fields it's a "Dog eat Dog" world. In some industries, it's highly competitive to get a job, but once you're in you enjoy a life of Riley (I worked for a non-profit).
But people should realize that you can enjoy the Good life even if you only earn a "small bone."
But people should realize that you can enjoy the Good life even if you only earn a "small bone."
1
Fear pervades the contemporary workplace, often setting off our most primal survival responses. These included the fight or flight, where bullies who are not necessarily smarter or better employees shut out those who are not comfortable with confrontation or aggression. The most obvious example, but certainly not singular, is the louder, more confident male interrupting or shutting up women in the conference room. Bosses can sit back and feel they have the upper hand, with the best and brightest of their employees duking it out for prominence. The problem is, this creates a negative feedback loop wherein those with the least emotional intelligence rise to the top.
Jeff Bezos wrote a response to the New York Times' report on conditions inside Amazon. I don't believe his feigned surprise at the inhumanity at Amazon. After all, he is the designer of the organization and its ethos. His participation in the report, only offered after national mortification of workplace practices, belie his crass attempt to maintain a satisfied, loyal customer base. Perhaps the only way to reach such people who have so much affect on all of our work places is to vote with our dollars, and discontinue supporting businesses that drive our culture and its sense of decency ever lower into the abyss.
Jeff Bezos wrote a response to the New York Times' report on conditions inside Amazon. I don't believe his feigned surprise at the inhumanity at Amazon. After all, he is the designer of the organization and its ethos. His participation in the report, only offered after national mortification of workplace practices, belie his crass attempt to maintain a satisfied, loyal customer base. Perhaps the only way to reach such people who have so much affect on all of our work places is to vote with our dollars, and discontinue supporting businesses that drive our culture and its sense of decency ever lower into the abyss.
3
It's very simple. For each employee, divide the annual compensation by total hours worked. Make the compensation for hours worked in excess of 40-45 hrs/week not tax deductible for employer and let the market take care of things. This will kick Mr.Bezos and his ilk where it hurts. Oh, and they can't claim it will impose an extra administrative burden - they already know who is leaving in time to have dinner with their families, don't they?
3
$15 minimal wage - actual for low-skilled jobs, fully paid leave for child care, 100% payed overtime work, insurance and taxes at the expense of employer. Only big companies can afford themselves such benefits, for mid scale and small business this is too heavy burden. This harms our economy, companies become bankrupt, goods become more expensive for final consumer cause of high costs of manufacturer. As a result, only corporations and innovative business stay the course.
Workers in the Western world learned years ago that the only way to guarantee fair and equal treatment in employment was through negotiated agreements. Such agreements are best maintained through a strong and active workplace union. Until employees figure this out, and begin to demand equal and fair treatment via union agreements, they will continue to be abused by management.
That is not a simple answer, but it is the truth. Workers have only the work rights they demand, and you can't demand anything if you are on the bottom looking up.
That is not a simple answer, but it is the truth. Workers have only the work rights they demand, and you can't demand anything if you are on the bottom looking up.
3
It seems as if the whole work environment has taken on this competitive ethos. That seems to fly in the face of the idea that cooperation and collaboration produce better results. It's what you would expect when opportunity is limited and a lot of people are willing to compete for scarce rewards.
1
Like it or not, the Cravath system has produced some excellent results and excellent lawyers.
Stop whining and work like you mean it! If you are not prepared to make work your priority, you have no place in this great country. First we have basically useless people clamoring for a living wage when they perform no more than the most menial of tasks, essentially women's work. Now, executives want to go home and play with baby? As one commenter on the right side of the minimum wage debate said, "This is Capitalism, get used to it!".
1
Student, from the other end of the working life this 64 year old can assure you that your attitude will lead to financial success...and the raising of neglected children that may emulate you or be painful testaments to your worship of finances over family. Your first wife battling you for cash and your second wife teaching you how fast it can be spent. Thankfully you will also keep a therapist and cardiologist wealthy as well as your child's psychologists, your ex-wife's jeweler well off and the occasional Yale educated call girl able to retire her student loans. But you will have shown your CEO that you do work like you mean it, but you will find most of that work lacks meaning.
The American culture has perpetrated a massive fraud upon its people in convincing them that the Darwinian process of Capitalism is the be all end all of their existance. Having immigrated from Europe in the 50's as a young boy, I always viewed this economic philosophy with a dose of healthy skepticism. In spite of our overall higher level of material well being, Americans do not have as fulfilling a quality of life as do most of western Europeans with similiar income levels. Now in retirement, I am pleased that I was always able to keep my work/life balance while engaged at the highest level of my profession. Having a home in the Hamptons or a ski lodge in Vail is not the definition of a happy or successful life.
103
An awful lot of whining going on. The question is to what extent these concerns are attributable to the terminal narcissism of gen X and millennials, egged on by the perpetual guilt and lack of a sense of fulfillment of their boomer and gen X parents respectively.
The culture at Amazon sounds very similar to the culture of the legal profession when I worked as an associate at several large and medium sized law firms from 2003 until 2011. What ultimately happened to me was that I had a baby and received suspiciously harsh reviews three months after I returned to work. I had been on bed rest for six months of my pregnancy due to pre-term labor. I cannot stress enough that a culture will dominate a work place because a callous boss will hire other employees that are callous and together they will drive out the employees who are not a good fit. As a temporary lawyer doing temp work, I saw proportionally far more gay, or minority, or women lawyers in the four years that I did temp work, than I had ever seen at big law firms, that was proof enough for me that there was discrimination. In fact, 80% of the temp lawyers were either women, minority or gay. This was a unique barometer for me to assess the bigotry of law firms and was part of my ultimate decision to leave the legal profession and enter another one.
5
Corporations are more anti worker and anti family than ever. I don't see many companies such as Costco in today's world.
1
There has always been competition, but there was once a positive relationship between productivity and wages. It has been decades, since the harder a person worked, the greater was his reward, and to the degree which compensation has diverged from productivity, corporation have prospered, particularly since 2009 during the regime of QE.
Japanese workers have been mired in a low wage miasma for decades now, and this week GDP surprisingly fell off 1.6% from expectations. Corporations are still profitable, but the Japanese worker has become accustomed to save rather than spend, and until they see a rise in wages, it appears that they are not going to spend.
I assume that the Nikki's positive response to this news was the result of an anticipated further devaluation of the currency, which is becoming an ominous trend in a world, where the price of the currency has replaced competitive advantage, since we all sell the same things to one another.
This week week we Americans were fixated by our Presidential Theatre of the Absurd as a belligerent Governor Walker of Wisconsin took the stage at the Iowa Fair to rail against unions in order to present himself as the man on the barricades against collective bargaining, and wage growth. He is a part of the problem, and I do sometimes wonder about his sanity.
It is sure that we can't have viable economies when only the rich have purchasing power, but we are trapped in the logic of this new Gilded Age. Competition is not the problem.
Japanese workers have been mired in a low wage miasma for decades now, and this week GDP surprisingly fell off 1.6% from expectations. Corporations are still profitable, but the Japanese worker has become accustomed to save rather than spend, and until they see a rise in wages, it appears that they are not going to spend.
I assume that the Nikki's positive response to this news was the result of an anticipated further devaluation of the currency, which is becoming an ominous trend in a world, where the price of the currency has replaced competitive advantage, since we all sell the same things to one another.
This week week we Americans were fixated by our Presidential Theatre of the Absurd as a belligerent Governor Walker of Wisconsin took the stage at the Iowa Fair to rail against unions in order to present himself as the man on the barricades against collective bargaining, and wage growth. He is a part of the problem, and I do sometimes wonder about his sanity.
It is sure that we can't have viable economies when only the rich have purchasing power, but we are trapped in the logic of this new Gilded Age. Competition is not the problem.
1
Competition is so meaningless. Why on earth do you want to kill yourself to prove you're better than someone? Don't you know life is short and that the best we can do is enjoy it to the max? Me, I couldn't care less about succeeding. Give me good food, wine and a warm beach. Viva la dolce vita!
Envying other's income while pretending not to care about it, that's hypocritical.
If you want to be part of the hamster wheel system, so be it. Work long, earn much, and show your Rolex at class reunion.
Or you show pictures of your family. Or of your 5 yrs work-and-travel trip through Asia.
But please stop demanding and pretending that you can have it all. It will never work, simply because it is not possible.
Instead of deluding yourself, you'll have to find out which balance will make you, you personally, happy. There simply is no way around it.
If you want to be part of the hamster wheel system, so be it. Work long, earn much, and show your Rolex at class reunion.
Or you show pictures of your family. Or of your 5 yrs work-and-travel trip through Asia.
But please stop demanding and pretending that you can have it all. It will never work, simply because it is not possible.
Instead of deluding yourself, you'll have to find out which balance will make you, you personally, happy. There simply is no way around it.
Competition is healthy and important. This type of competitive culture has made America great for several centuries. The leadership positions in any profession are always scarce and the competition for these positions SHOULD always be fierce. This competition guarantee the most determined and competent people will lead. This system can work well under three additional constraints. First, the competition must be fair and merit based. Second, there are decent career alternatives for the many people who lose in the competition. Third, the "awards" for the winners must be within a REASONABLE bound. Our system is now partly out of whack because we have neglected the last two constrains. Without the last two constraints, we produce a hyper winner-takes-all society and damage our middle class. The average CEO pay should fall back to the historical norm (about 20x of average worker pay) from the current exorbitant levels. We want leaders who are NOT just motivated by wealth as leadership is far beyond that.
Why? Why is brutal competition the order of the day? Who benefits from it? Why is it considered acceptable? Are we trying to turn all working Americans into our very own version of Japanese "salarymen"?
The wrong people are setting the standards in the USA for workers, and I would love to see push-back from the workers. I'd love to see ALL of Amazon's warehouse workers just not show up one day. That would show the power of the worker - something this country's workers seem to have forgotten they have. The instrument for exercising this power is called a "union" - and we need for the ordinary workers who are being badly treated to understand why joining a union (or forming one, if necessary) is in their best interest. Working oneself to death for an uncaring corporation is always a bad idea.
As to the demand that workers be available around the clock, in our household this is our push-back: Cell phones are turned OFF when we walk in the door after work. They are NOT turned on again until the following morning. Cell phones are also turned off ALL weekend every weekend, as well as for vacations. If something is truly "urgent," then work can phone us on our old-fashioned home phone (deliberately a landline) - and their reason for phoning had better be damned good. You CAN draw a line in the digital sand if you're willing to be clear that you have priorities beyond work and therefore you are not going to be on-call 24/7.
The wrong people are setting the standards in the USA for workers, and I would love to see push-back from the workers. I'd love to see ALL of Amazon's warehouse workers just not show up one day. That would show the power of the worker - something this country's workers seem to have forgotten they have. The instrument for exercising this power is called a "union" - and we need for the ordinary workers who are being badly treated to understand why joining a union (or forming one, if necessary) is in their best interest. Working oneself to death for an uncaring corporation is always a bad idea.
As to the demand that workers be available around the clock, in our household this is our push-back: Cell phones are turned OFF when we walk in the door after work. They are NOT turned on again until the following morning. Cell phones are also turned off ALL weekend every weekend, as well as for vacations. If something is truly "urgent," then work can phone us on our old-fashioned home phone (deliberately a landline) - and their reason for phoning had better be damned good. You CAN draw a line in the digital sand if you're willing to be clear that you have priorities beyond work and therefore you are not going to be on-call 24/7.
1
The well being of the American worker has been declining since Ronald Reagan became president and two things started to happen big time, both related to the basic economic truth of supply and demand or said simply; more workers than jobs always equals overworked, underpaid workers.
1. Presidents started getting paid off after they left office for favors granted to corporations and countries while in office; remember Reagan's 10 million dollar speech in Japan because of relaxing auto trade barriers. NAFTA and the Clinton foundation. Bad trade deals caused fewer jobs.
2. Illegal immigration was encouraged by Republican and Democrat presidents to provide a constant source of cheap labor for their corporate masters. More workers.
Until both of these issues are dealt with our standard of living will continue to decline. Trump 2016.
1. Presidents started getting paid off after they left office for favors granted to corporations and countries while in office; remember Reagan's 10 million dollar speech in Japan because of relaxing auto trade barriers. NAFTA and the Clinton foundation. Bad trade deals caused fewer jobs.
2. Illegal immigration was encouraged by Republican and Democrat presidents to provide a constant source of cheap labor for their corporate masters. More workers.
Until both of these issues are dealt with our standard of living will continue to decline. Trump 2016.
1
It is obvious that Bezos and other power-hungry, greedy leaders of corporate America perputuate a dysfunctional, tyrranical environment in the workplace. They make their billions by crushing and intimidating their workers, not supporting them. They've been doing this for decades. Hey Jeff et al, a little warm and fuzzy goes a long way!
1
I devote my life's work to helping top execs and leaders find some semblance of work/life balance in their daily lives. For some, their work culture demands only work, work, work with some elusive pay-off about getting a social life or time to meditate in the elusive future...but what this yields is the "all work and no play" imbalance one must endure for years until they "make it." Let's not even mention the damage put upon the body, mind and spirit from lack of sleep (which is linked to brain damage, cancer and accidents/illness at work, etc.) Add to this polemic that even our youngest star athletes can be overheard saying, "I can sleep when I die." Unfortunately, the stress and toll caused by overwork, constant competition and insomnia is borne out in our nation's skyrocketing healthcare costs, ill temperaments, fatigue and damaged interpersonal/familial relationships. The trick is to convince Type A perfectionists and driven competitors that they can ditch their edginess but maintain their 'edge.' Convincing our Protestant-Work-Ethic America, that a little "siesta' now and again would actually save lives and increase lifespan is a tough charge. Simple things like learning to meditate for a few minutes each day and evening can yield tremendous health benefits...but unfortunately, too many of our workers come to see these perks only after a major illness, heart attack or tragedy. We need more "ohm" in our workplaces and in our homes! #namaste
The main problem is Americans (and the Chinese) tend to see reward and compensation ONLY in monetary terms. That perspective enslaves the work force at will.
True reward goes beyond salaries and bonuses. The ability to switch off completely between 6:00 pm on Friday and 9:00 am on Monday - for example - is part of compensation term. So is the possibility to take 2 consecutive weeks of vacation in a year, outside Xmas and New Year holidays.
The bottom line is Americans need to learn to chose: Say 'No' to another new plasma TV, and say 'Yes' to more private time. Once you value your private time more than a plasma TV or a car, you take charge of your own world.
Ownership of material beings doesn't beget happiness. Only life experiences do. What's the point of owning big homes, beautiful cars and the latest designer clothes if one doesn't have time to nurture intimate, true and meaningful friendships? And no, your Therapist is not your friend.....
True reward goes beyond salaries and bonuses. The ability to switch off completely between 6:00 pm on Friday and 9:00 am on Monday - for example - is part of compensation term. So is the possibility to take 2 consecutive weeks of vacation in a year, outside Xmas and New Year holidays.
The bottom line is Americans need to learn to chose: Say 'No' to another new plasma TV, and say 'Yes' to more private time. Once you value your private time more than a plasma TV or a car, you take charge of your own world.
Ownership of material beings doesn't beget happiness. Only life experiences do. What's the point of owning big homes, beautiful cars and the latest designer clothes if one doesn't have time to nurture intimate, true and meaningful friendships? And no, your Therapist is not your friend.....
The psychotic, insatiably greedy, unregulated, untaxed predatory mafia-model business model is sick and must be driven out of existence. Healthy competition is fine but this whole kill or be killed, be the best or be nothing, destroy your co-worker for a few bucks is not. CUPCAKE WARS for heaven's sake? Survival? Family FEUD? Big Brother? Constant destruction and violence in movies, television, video games and on reddit and facebook? It's sick and it is destroying civil society. WE must stop it by moving OUR money in every form to local, socially conscious entities, building a new model of business that is enjoyable and sustainable and voting to get the "masters of the universe" operatives out of OUR governments at every level.
2
I have been a high-tech headhunter for nearly a decade and also the parent of two milennials. For all the huffing and puffing of people who think the Amazon culture is harsh...puhLEEZE. Save your protests for the WALMARTS of the world. Amazon employees are well compensated and understand the culture going in. As a recruiter, I would NEVER place or advise a free spirit to Google on in to Amazon, including my children. But for the right person, it is the resume building career break of a lifetime. Oh, and by the way, did y'all forget how to be workaholics like we did in the 80s? It's not all bad. If you hate it, go be a barista at Starbucks and write a novel.
31
Kristan, I find your "buck up or get out" response chilling. You see the world divided into Titans and novel-writing baristas? Are these our choices? Of course its hard to feel sympathy for those 25 year olds making 6 figures, but make no mistake, it all rolls downhill. People who work like that think their underlings and the rest of the world should also live in self-denial if they want to "be somebody", and they run their kids into the ground. (See recent stories about Silicon Valley.) This has cultural implications -- a loss to our civic organizations, and an electorate that is too busy to pay attention to what our government is doing. They've bought what you're selling, that a few years in a place like this and they'll have it made, the heck with everybody else. When you win the rat race, you're a rat.
Uh... I'm going to be that in the 1980s nobody called you at home at 10pm to talk about work.
Agreed; they're wage slaves, but well-paid wage slaves. And they get paid much more than money. Is it for everyone? Certainly not. But it's a trade (labor for cash) just like any other.
Jeff Bezos does not have his finger on the pulse of his employees. He is embarrassed that his company's harsh work policies made front page headlines - because he is concerned that it might adversely affect his stock price. Prior. That is the only reason he cares. A company does not create a harsh work policy without the CEO, Division Presidents, Sr. Vice Presidents and Vic Presidents setting the tone - what he needs to do is meet the bottom 70,000 employees who are demoted when they take maternity leave, etc. Half of this world is made up of women, and who do you think has babies???WOMEN. You guys need to wake up and realize that Women created you, and need to be protected when they take maternity leave. Do you really believe that its OK for a woman to carry a baby in utero for 9 months, deliver and then be torn away from that baby within 6 weeks? I was an attorney for a very large firm and was given the opportunity to work up to 6 months from home after giving birth. I realize that no one else was given that opportunity - but they should be given respect. Bezos is making his millions, his billions....now he should devote the rest of his life trying to give his employees the opportunity to come to/from work each day with a smile on their face, and not be afraid of being harassed or bullied.
1
Compete and cooperate with good will. Try to live and die without too much regret. That would be a life well lived.
This story is just about the fight between the people at the top. Those who are "managed out" at Amazon, Wall street or top law firms only have my very limited sympathy. They do not fall far as your article mentions.
The real problem is that this relentless competition plays out in and between all layers of society. At the base of this pyramid the losers face real destitution.
I think the ever growing wealth and income gap is largely to blame.
If you let the 1% take it all and the other 99% starve there will be ferocious competition for the few top spots.
Bring back some semblance of just taxation before this system blows up completely. We need in effect a wealth and income cap.
I have no hope of a voluntary change though. I think history shows that absolute rulers have never shown restraint, they always have gone down in flames.
The real problem is that this relentless competition plays out in and between all layers of society. At the base of this pyramid the losers face real destitution.
I think the ever growing wealth and income gap is largely to blame.
If you let the 1% take it all and the other 99% starve there will be ferocious competition for the few top spots.
Bring back some semblance of just taxation before this system blows up completely. We need in effect a wealth and income cap.
I have no hope of a voluntary change though. I think history shows that absolute rulers have never shown restraint, they always have gone down in flames.
1
I don't think this is unique to the US: it's human nature. Here in France it is illegal for an employer to expect an employee to answer their phone or even read or respond to email after work. There is supposed to be a 35 hour workweek and overtime is not an option (if there is more work needed an employer is supposed to hire another person). In practice these rules are widely ignored. Nobody seems to work 35 hours; emails and phone calls are common at night and weekends. People routinely bring work home.
It's not only big companies: there are many small business owners and I'll see them working at their shops in the morning, when I stop in to get croissant for breakfast, and also the evening, when I stop to buy baguette for dinner. I worked in Silicon Valley for over ten years and it's really not much different here, though I admittedly work in a place that has high expectations (which I strongly prefer).
There's an assumption that workers are exploited but, after working in the US, where the law permits this, and in France, where the law doesn't -- and not seeing much of a difference (except for the long summer vacations), I think this is just how some people are wired and those people tend to flock together.
It's not only big companies: there are many small business owners and I'll see them working at their shops in the morning, when I stop in to get croissant for breakfast, and also the evening, when I stop to buy baguette for dinner. I worked in Silicon Valley for over ten years and it's really not much different here, though I admittedly work in a place that has high expectations (which I strongly prefer).
There's an assumption that workers are exploited but, after working in the US, where the law permits this, and in France, where the law doesn't -- and not seeing much of a difference (except for the long summer vacations), I think this is just how some people are wired and those people tend to flock together.
1
If you want to get to the top in anything extremely competitive from becoming a top executive at a top firm to being a top athlete or musician it takes an enormous commitment, exceeding the commitment to family. Work-life balance? Forget it. There's nothing wrong with taking a shot and I don't see doing it knowingly as being "victimized". When ordinary workers doing ordinary work get the Cravath treatment is when you understand what was great about unions.
3
Just discontinued my Prime membership.
Join me.
Join me.
When did money start to trump everything else in life in this obsessive manner?
When will money stop being the prime motivator for life on Earth in this modern world?
It appears that only a major catastrophe the likes of which we have never experienced on Earth before that threatens our very existence will have to take place to wake us up.
Do your best to figure out how to work for yourself.
Even if it means less money, but allows the time to live life, not live work.
Work to live, don't live to work.
When will money stop being the prime motivator for life on Earth in this modern world?
It appears that only a major catastrophe the likes of which we have never experienced on Earth before that threatens our very existence will have to take place to wake us up.
Do your best to figure out how to work for yourself.
Even if it means less money, but allows the time to live life, not live work.
Work to live, don't live to work.
1
There is no room in this ratrace culture for those who don't buy in to its narcissistic mythologies.
3
"The beatings will continue until morale improves."
8
My, my, The Times takes on the sweat shops of the 21 century. Give me a break, this is nothing more then a veiled attempt to discredit the capitalist system and get government to put its hand on caring for the people from the cradle to the grave. Is is proven, time and time again, the last thing the government wants is a competitive environment, after all is that not what government seeks to eliminate at all levels of society? Equality of outcomes is what government seeks. Bernie is working on that. Mx. Hillary will tell you she can arrange it. What fools.
It's about time we started talking about this.
These workers need a union.
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I would agree if unions had not been perverted into little corporations with the few "top Mgt" making a lot on the backs of the many.
Am I a slacker because I'd just like to do an excellent job but have a life too?
32
Many US companies are in global competition with foreign companies in China, India, etc.
Now China has devalued their currency making Chinese produced goods cheaper than goods produced in the US and globally the devaluation of the Yuan allows Chinese companies to further compete with US produced goods in the US, Europe, South
America, etc. Will the US consumer continue to buy American knowing the workplace us better?
Now China has devalued their currency making Chinese produced goods cheaper than goods produced in the US and globally the devaluation of the Yuan allows Chinese companies to further compete with US produced goods in the US, Europe, South
America, etc. Will the US consumer continue to buy American knowing the workplace us better?
Noam Scheiber is right that today's work conditions can be tough -- but the white-collar environments of 30 to 50 years ago were nasty in their own way, too. Far more workers were expected to punch a time clock on arrival and departure. Being 10 minutes late, in some shops, was a firing offense. Come in late because you took your child to school? Not remotely tolerated.
Today's long hours on the job are soothed by the ability to do personal business on the company clock. The multitasking lawyer or banker often has one browser window for email or company papers, while another window provides sports scores, the kids' grades or the ubiquitous Facebook. Texting on the job has displaced cigarettes as the fidgety person's pastime.
There wasn't anything remotely comparable in the Carter era. Men weren't supposed to care about family issues while on the job; women had to fight a giant wall of prejudice to win anything approaching a durable career. The unisex norms: show up, sit at your desk, wear stiff, uncomfortable clothes -- and look "professional" at all times.
In my first job out of college, I was told about one manager who didn't go to his father's funeral, because he believed it was more important to come to work. I'd hate to retreat to the office norms of a couple generations ago. People were trapped in a value system that I now regard as more stifling than office norms today.
Today's long hours on the job are soothed by the ability to do personal business on the company clock. The multitasking lawyer or banker often has one browser window for email or company papers, while another window provides sports scores, the kids' grades or the ubiquitous Facebook. Texting on the job has displaced cigarettes as the fidgety person's pastime.
There wasn't anything remotely comparable in the Carter era. Men weren't supposed to care about family issues while on the job; women had to fight a giant wall of prejudice to win anything approaching a durable career. The unisex norms: show up, sit at your desk, wear stiff, uncomfortable clothes -- and look "professional" at all times.
In my first job out of college, I was told about one manager who didn't go to his father's funeral, because he believed it was more important to come to work. I'd hate to retreat to the office norms of a couple generations ago. People were trapped in a value system that I now regard as more stifling than office norms today.
62
I love this comment. For those of us old enough to recall the USA pre-1980s, married women were almost wholly expected to maintain the home while the husband worked a full time job. Obviously that time is gone and we dont ever need to return to it -- but it was the de facto structure that supported the idea that one person could work crazy hours because there was a stay at home wife doing all of the other work at home and with the kids.
In 2015 workers with kids NEED 2 full-time incomes (which is a topic in itself), both typically have to work long hours and the kids are schlepped to day-care. This is not better than the 1960s -- all it did was create more American work-debt-slaves.
In 2015 workers with kids NEED 2 full-time incomes (which is a topic in itself), both typically have to work long hours and the kids are schlepped to day-care. This is not better than the 1960s -- all it did was create more American work-debt-slaves.
16
I've never worked a day since waiting tables in the borscht-belt as a college student. Identifying a profession that is contributing to society and a value to those we serve does beyond all else make time constraints, stresses, and struggles just challenges - but rewarding at the end of the day. Let's focus more on what we can do for each other and work as hard as we can to protect our way of life. After all, there are those around the globe seeking to destroy us. From success is a good life for our children.
Exactly. And while now both parents have entered the workforce and are working crazy hours, more often than not it is STILL up to the wife to maintain home and family. And sociologists and politicians wonder why we have a 50% divorce rate.
What is the purpose of your life, if you don't have time to play with your kids, to read or even write a poem, to watch the moon rise on a summer evening? Did you come into the world to produce and sell more things that nobody really needs, and to deliver them to the customer's door faster than the next company? To cut the throat of the guy in the next cube, so that you will be promoted above him? To enrich the billionaire boss even further?
No wonder the corporatists who are trying to "reform" education want to get rid of the liberal arts. They don't want the wage slaves (including the very highly paid wage slaves) thinking about what it might mean to be a human being.
No wonder the corporatists who are trying to "reform" education want to get rid of the liberal arts. They don't want the wage slaves (including the very highly paid wage slaves) thinking about what it might mean to be a human being.
25
Competition is a sin.
The problem America is that here are not very fond of unions, although these patterns could greatly facilitate the life of an ordinary worker. The main task of trade unions to protect the interests of its employees, and thanks to their efforts, you will never get fired from work without valid reason. Think about the fact that even in the red light district in Amsterdam prostitutes have their own Union.
9
I may be wrong but all hyper-successful companies seem to have slave-like cultures once they are revealed. As such the case at Apple during Jobs' tenure was only revealed after he passed away. The current CEO also has a reputation of being hard driving but not quite as fanatical as Jobs was. Time will tell but it does seem like Apple has lost a bit of its edge.
2
This is your reward for getting perfect scores on the SAT's, and a 4.0 GPA in college -all under the relentless prodding of Mommy and Daddy: the life of a performing seal. Arf. Arf.
1
In 1989, I gave up the Private sector and took a position in the Public sector. Sure a lot less money than I could have, been earning, but then my beautiful girls had a Mom.
When I had a freak on the job injury, we are lucky to have Federal workers Compensation 66-75% of my pay still a crunch , but it beats the miserly $450 a week cap in Georgia for Private sector Employees.
I also have a pension! that I can access!
I was able to recruit plenty of quality employees from the private sector who were fed up with having no work / life balance. Then to be laid off anytime the economy got slow. Then hit 50 or close to a 30 year pension, ( oops they cut those out) they let you go), or if you married a co- worker, one of you was let go the next go round of cuts, I hired my best employee that way. People who do wait until their mid 30's to have kids, decide screw it, I waited, those kids are more important.
My kids have seen those kids who have absent parents, raised by Nanny's aren't happy. We have less, they have had a mom.
When I had a freak on the job injury, we are lucky to have Federal workers Compensation 66-75% of my pay still a crunch , but it beats the miserly $450 a week cap in Georgia for Private sector Employees.
I also have a pension! that I can access!
I was able to recruit plenty of quality employees from the private sector who were fed up with having no work / life balance. Then to be laid off anytime the economy got slow. Then hit 50 or close to a 30 year pension, ( oops they cut those out) they let you go), or if you married a co- worker, one of you was let go the next go round of cuts, I hired my best employee that way. People who do wait until their mid 30's to have kids, decide screw it, I waited, those kids are more important.
My kids have seen those kids who have absent parents, raised by Nanny's aren't happy. We have less, they have had a mom.
11
Hard work, very competitive environment, and an industrious, highly educated group of peers. It's the same in the residencies and fellowships at the major teaching hospitals and in the select groups in the military - SEALs, Rangers, etc.
And then, there are those who took "soft majors" in college - Latina Studies, Gender Studies, Sociology, etc. - who wind up serving Starbuck's lattes to the Wall Streeters, the Amazonians, and the Sloan-Kettering surgeons.
It's just a question of competitive spirit or not
And then, there are those who took "soft majors" in college - Latina Studies, Gender Studies, Sociology, etc. - who wind up serving Starbuck's lattes to the Wall Streeters, the Amazonians, and the Sloan-Kettering surgeons.
It's just a question of competitive spirit or not
2
You think people in the "soft majors" don't know anything about "hard work" and a "competitive environment"? They're the smartest students on campus. Try sitting around a seminar table with them for a few hours and you'll know something about a "competitive spirit."
Want to be bored? Go to the business school and witness mediocrity in action.
Want to be bored? Go to the business school and witness mediocrity in action.
Charles, your contempt is showing. How about a paradigm shift. It is possible to be competitive with other companies and foster a team spirit within your own. There are barriers to implementation of this strategy though. Maturity and wisdom are necessary to create this model. These traits seem to be lacking in many businesses that rely on hyper masculine, dog eat dog models.
I read Bezos' response to the Times piece and it is clear to me that he doesn't take the abuses seriously.
He basically offered two remedies:
"If you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at [email protected]"
This is not a solution. These problems won't be fixed by dealing with one off individual cases. Bezos knows that. He knows you don't fix problems by just having the expectation that people should do a better job. You fix problems by putting the right systems in place. Escalate to HR and email the CEO are already there, and yet this garbage happens all the time. This is a non-response.
"I strongly believe that anyone working in a company that really is like the one described in the NYT would be crazy to stay. I know I would leave such a company."
This is also not a solution to the culture problem at Amazon, but It is a telling example of how Amazon got to be the company it is today. For each decent person who quits, the culture of abuse tightens. If everyone but the brutal quits, the company will be made up of no one but the most brutal.
The company culture is a feature not a bug. Resolved as no plan to fix, working as designed.
He basically offered two remedies:
"If you know of any stories like those reported, I want you to escalate to HR. You can also email me directly at [email protected]"
This is not a solution. These problems won't be fixed by dealing with one off individual cases. Bezos knows that. He knows you don't fix problems by just having the expectation that people should do a better job. You fix problems by putting the right systems in place. Escalate to HR and email the CEO are already there, and yet this garbage happens all the time. This is a non-response.
"I strongly believe that anyone working in a company that really is like the one described in the NYT would be crazy to stay. I know I would leave such a company."
This is also not a solution to the culture problem at Amazon, but It is a telling example of how Amazon got to be the company it is today. For each decent person who quits, the culture of abuse tightens. If everyone but the brutal quits, the company will be made up of no one but the most brutal.
The company culture is a feature not a bug. Resolved as no plan to fix, working as designed.
22
But why are so many of US enamored with The Amazon Way? Have they no thoughts as to what despicable mind numbing conditions Bezos puts its workers through every working minute just to satisfy our ridiculously over-the-top conspicuous "needs"?
We have met the enemy, and it is US.
DD
NYC
We have met the enemy, and it is US.
DD
NYC
So Bezos will make sure you get your new laptop or garbage can 24 hours sooner than anyone else can get it to you and cheaper at the same time.
He has designed an entire corporation to emphasize these objectives in every facet of operation. The effect cannot be good for employees, families of employees....or mental health. I wonder how many Amazon employees are taking anti depressants?
He has designed an entire corporation to emphasize these objectives in every facet of operation. The effect cannot be good for employees, families of employees....or mental health. I wonder how many Amazon employees are taking anti depressants?
6
One of the most striking features of the Amazon article was a note on a failed unionization attempt among some of the company's employees. Unions can help create a sense of solidarity between employees; they force collaboration and put into tangible terms what they expect from management. While a kinder work space should be sought after, it might have the unintended effect of discouraging unionization efforts. White collar professions have abysmally low levels of unionization, often many percentage points between the average unionization rates of other private industries. So when it is rightly argued that kinder policies often yield better productivity, it might be possible that they also contribute to employees having a weaker hand in bargaining.
2
Writers and cognitive scientists understand the cataphorical effect of sequence -- the term occurring first engages more brain activity and is more readily remembered than the send term.
It is always called "work-life" balance.
It is never called "life-work" balance.
See the difference?
Wonder why?
People are merely given lip service on a so-called balance between these two dimensions of life, the first and larger dimension being all of the things that make life worth living, and the second dimension being the activity that provides the means to obtain material things that are needed for the larger true life.
Life-work balance.
Try it. Try saying it, and living it.
It is always called "work-life" balance.
It is never called "life-work" balance.
See the difference?
Wonder why?
People are merely given lip service on a so-called balance between these two dimensions of life, the first and larger dimension being all of the things that make life worth living, and the second dimension being the activity that provides the means to obtain material things that are needed for the larger true life.
Life-work balance.
Try it. Try saying it, and living it.
10
Apparently, Amazon and its ilk are nurturing a generation of vipers who produce little of real societal consequence and seldom, if ever, risk anything but their egos and specialize in nerdly backstabbing.
I recall the era in which Lockheed's Kelly Johnson "fired" and "unfired"people several times a day, Curtis LeMay said that there was no such thing as a totally useless officer because you could make an example of him of what not to be, and squadron commanders would instigate fights among pilots by falsely identifying guys as having made outrageously derogatory comments about another.
But, these guys weren't Information Age feathermerchants or ribbonclerks. They created organizations and technologies that kept the peace, changed the world, and (despite the delusions of Reaganites and Limbaugh) really defeated the Soviet Union.
And, beyond the US, there is Taiichi Ohno, architect of the Toyota Production System -- the machine that did change the world -- who often said that the " ... secret to Toyota's success is getting extraordinary results from ordinary people."
I recall the era in which Lockheed's Kelly Johnson "fired" and "unfired"people several times a day, Curtis LeMay said that there was no such thing as a totally useless officer because you could make an example of him of what not to be, and squadron commanders would instigate fights among pilots by falsely identifying guys as having made outrageously derogatory comments about another.
But, these guys weren't Information Age feathermerchants or ribbonclerks. They created organizations and technologies that kept the peace, changed the world, and (despite the delusions of Reaganites and Limbaugh) really defeated the Soviet Union.
And, beyond the US, there is Taiichi Ohno, architect of the Toyota Production System -- the machine that did change the world -- who often said that the " ... secret to Toyota's success is getting extraordinary results from ordinary people."
1
This piece brings to mind a quote, although I can't recall who said it:
"The problem with 'survival of the fittest' is the dead body at your feet."
"The problem with 'survival of the fittest' is the dead body at your feet."
20
“That's the trouble with survival of the fittest, isn't it, Dominick? The corpse at your feet. That little inconvenience.”
― Wally Lamb, I Know This Much Is True
― Wally Lamb, I Know This Much Is True
Seriously Jeff! Amazon is meticulous about collecting an unbelieveable amount of performance metrics on absolutely everything regarding system and employee performance. Any claim that you will not tolerate callous behaviour simply means you are not looking at the data. If you really want to solve the problem, just forward the NYT article to your head of HR with a simple "?".
121
If the culture is as it is described in the NYT article the direction and moral leadership for that culture comes from the top. Look in the mirror Mr. Bezos, this is your baby, HR is carrying out your instructions.
I agree wholeheartedly. Intentionally or not, the culture of Amazon is the culture that Jeff Bezos has created...the people he hired or put in charge or let others put in charge and the polices and procedures...written and unwritten that occur. If they want to change the culture, it needs to start with Jeff Bezos.
I've been in the workforce for 35 years. In that time I've worked quite hard. Sometimes I've stayed late because the job demanded it. My bosses took this for granted but never paid me more because of it. I could say it's because I'm a single female but I don't believe that's the whole story. We have a culture that takes people who work long hours for granted. I've never been told to go home and let the work wait until the next day. I've never been told that I worked hard today, come in late the next day. What has happened is that I've been given a hard time any time I've needed a day off or needed some time to take care of a medical need or a personal need. One supervisor told me I took more time off than anyone else in the department. When I was "downsized" I had 42 vacation days coming to me.
Employers are entitled to our time during the work week. Just because we have cellphones, internet access, etc., doesn't mean that they own us. It should not mean that they are entitled to intrude on our limited vacation time. It should not mean that we routinely go without enough sleep, down time, or time to have personal lives. Yet that is the choice many of us are forced to make because of how our society works. White collar work may not be "just in time" but the expectations that we are always available are every bit as damaging. If we had full employment, more vacation time, and decent pay the economy might be doing better for all of us.
Employers are entitled to our time during the work week. Just because we have cellphones, internet access, etc., doesn't mean that they own us. It should not mean that they are entitled to intrude on our limited vacation time. It should not mean that we routinely go without enough sleep, down time, or time to have personal lives. Yet that is the choice many of us are forced to make because of how our society works. White collar work may not be "just in time" but the expectations that we are always available are every bit as damaging. If we had full employment, more vacation time, and decent pay the economy might be doing better for all of us.
19
When the company I used to work for switched from a policy of accumulating vacation and sick days, which could be rolled over indefinitely, to annual use-it-or-lose-it 'paid time off', I lost - wait for it - at least 172 days. The company gave too short notice, particularly in the midst of a busy time, to take even some, much less all of it. Talk about taking one for the team.
1
ACW, that's bad. Especially when they decide to stiff you if you need the time off. My supervisor gave me a hard time when I gave a month's notice about an optometrist appointment. To top it off, he lied to his supervisor about it who then yelled at me. He took this as license to ignore or try to deny requests I made for vacation time, time off to care for my mother (that lasted until I sent the email to every one of his supervisors), etc. But he's still at the company and I'm not. You have my sympathy.
For God's sake folks--you only have one life and there is no partnership, CEO position or 80 hour work weeks after you die. No one cares and those you are trying to impress are so wrapped up in their lives trying to impress others they don't have time to look at you.
Just look at the partners in those big law firms. Really examine their lives and ask, "Do I really want to be like them when I am 40, 50 or 60?" Failed marriages, no relationships with children, few real friends. What a life--no--really no life at all.
Unfortunately, our society is expanding the "have and have not" economic model driving more and more people into the mindless quest for money and materialism.
Happy I am retired, but feel sorry for the workers who have to take part in this insanity people like to call work.
Just look at the partners in those big law firms. Really examine their lives and ask, "Do I really want to be like them when I am 40, 50 or 60?" Failed marriages, no relationships with children, few real friends. What a life--no--really no life at all.
Unfortunately, our society is expanding the "have and have not" economic model driving more and more people into the mindless quest for money and materialism.
Happy I am retired, but feel sorry for the workers who have to take part in this insanity people like to call work.
227
And that's the dirtiest of the dirty little secrets, isn't it? That the money and "prestige" weren't worth "deferring" the rest of life for a decade (or two or three . . . ).
Sorry to burst your bubble Scott. I had that life as a federal agency head, senior partner in a law firm, and senior Fortune 5 executive. I did exciting work, saw the world had wonderful friends, colleagues and love interests, and participated directly in raising my daughter, who is happy, healthy and successful. I retired at 55 and now enjoy a life of hobbies and volunteer teaching at a law school. It would be hard to imagine how my career could have worked out better, and I consider myself very fortunate.
As for all of the haters, there is nothing wrong with a little hard work and ambition. Contrary to the progressive love for mediocrity and failure, a successful life well-lived can be a happy one.
As for all of the haters, there is nothing wrong with a little hard work and ambition. Contrary to the progressive love for mediocrity and failure, a successful life well-lived can be a happy one.
When I was working, there was a similar dichotomy between those who were ambitious and those who weren't. I was one of the ambitious ones, not because I wanted a corner office or a large income, but because I loved my work. So I put in long hours, both learning the ropes and taking on ambitious projects. Most employees took the easier, more 9-5 path and they did just fine.
Those of us who put in the extra time were far and away the most productive employees, not just because of the hours we worked but because we were the ones who devoted extra time to mastering our craft and so became the go-to people for everyone else, and the only ones who could manage large, complex projects.
If this phenomenon were affecting ordinary employees at ordinary companies I'd be all in favor of increasing employee protection, but those who are seeking top positions at top firms are doing so by choice and are generally very generously compensated for their efforts.
A friend whose father was the chairman of a Fortune 100 company once told me that when he hitched a ride to the city in the company limousine, he wasn't allowed to speak to his father during the trip, because his father needed to devote the time to work.
This level of dedication clearly isn't the path for everybody, and the lack of attention did my friend no good, but we do need leaders and people who take on difficult tasks and employees should be free to choose the competitive career path if it suits them.
Those of us who put in the extra time were far and away the most productive employees, not just because of the hours we worked but because we were the ones who devoted extra time to mastering our craft and so became the go-to people for everyone else, and the only ones who could manage large, complex projects.
If this phenomenon were affecting ordinary employees at ordinary companies I'd be all in favor of increasing employee protection, but those who are seeking top positions at top firms are doing so by choice and are generally very generously compensated for their efforts.
A friend whose father was the chairman of a Fortune 100 company once told me that when he hitched a ride to the city in the company limousine, he wasn't allowed to speak to his father during the trip, because his father needed to devote the time to work.
This level of dedication clearly isn't the path for everybody, and the lack of attention did my friend no good, but we do need leaders and people who take on difficult tasks and employees should be free to choose the competitive career path if it suits them.
8
Maybe those who aren't as dedicated to work as you had other obligations. You seem to be confusing face time with quality work. I've seen more mistakes made when people stay late everyday at work than when these same people go home, have a good night's sleep, and come back the next day. You also seem to assume that working 40 hours per week is indicative of less ambition when it's not. We need to have time off from work to live and breathe something other than work. Our current work ethic, as dictated by the higher ups who have more perks and make more money, is constant availability even when that intrudes on our time off.
As a single adult I didn't ( and still don't) have the money to hire someone to clean for me, to cook for me, to drive me to work, or to do the other things that a moderately wealthy person can hire someone to do. My time off from work is spent doing household chores, some leisure, and more household chores. It's not a bad life but I do need the time off from work to accomplish the other part of living.
As a single adult I didn't ( and still don't) have the money to hire someone to clean for me, to cook for me, to drive me to work, or to do the other things that a moderately wealthy person can hire someone to do. My time off from work is spent doing household chores, some leisure, and more household chores. It's not a bad life but I do need the time off from work to accomplish the other part of living.
40
JH I agree but as many of the comments here point out -- there is a larger and broader scope of USA jobs in which employers want 60 hours and 50 weeks and pay 50k. In other words, the monetary rewards arent there in many USA full time jobs these days and that is a very big deal.
11
Hen3ry,
The kind of work I did could not be accomplished in 40 hours.
As I said, if you don't want that kind of job, all power to you. Most people don't and I think that's reflected in the 10 recommendations your remark has so far received. As you say, they may have other obligations, such as family. Most often, in my experience, they just weren't particularly ambitious. They wanted a solid income and a decent work/life balance. And I said and say all power to them.
But please don't claim that every job can be accomplished in a 40 hour week, or that some jobs aren't so desired and competitive that they will go only to those who put in long hours. Neither is remotely true.
You are not going to make partner at a major law firm with 40 hours. You are not going to get through your residency with 40 hours. You are not going to run a major engineering project with 40 hours, or become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
Sorry, but those are the facts. And please don't talk to me about hiring people to cook and clean. I certainly didn't do that. We ordered lunch and dinner, or went to a local restaurant.
I have no problem if you only want to work a 40 hour week, but it's profoundly unrealistic to say that you can do that and be ambitious at the same time.
The kind of work I did could not be accomplished in 40 hours.
As I said, if you don't want that kind of job, all power to you. Most people don't and I think that's reflected in the 10 recommendations your remark has so far received. As you say, they may have other obligations, such as family. Most often, in my experience, they just weren't particularly ambitious. They wanted a solid income and a decent work/life balance. And I said and say all power to them.
But please don't claim that every job can be accomplished in a 40 hour week, or that some jobs aren't so desired and competitive that they will go only to those who put in long hours. Neither is remotely true.
You are not going to make partner at a major law firm with 40 hours. You are not going to get through your residency with 40 hours. You are not going to run a major engineering project with 40 hours, or become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
Sorry, but those are the facts. And please don't talk to me about hiring people to cook and clean. I certainly didn't do that. We ordered lunch and dinner, or went to a local restaurant.
I have no problem if you only want to work a 40 hour week, but it's profoundly unrealistic to say that you can do that and be ambitious at the same time.
1
It has to be said most USA jobs are not super-high-level corporate law and finance jobs -- which is all this article seems to talk about. This is cream o' the crop employment and if the work environment is brutally selective, so be it.
8
Because they choose to work so hard, employees in the top tiers of income develop a vast sense of entitlement.
They are absolutely certain that they work harder than, say, the guy repairing their electric line outdoors during a blizzard at 3am. So they demand special tax breaks and shield their money in cute schemes and offshore tax-free havens. God forbid they should pay their fair share so the rest of us can have decent schools and safe bridges.
They use their wealth and power to try to force the rest of us--including those who do backbreaking labor--to work until we're 68, 69, 70. Long after our bodies wear out. They try to kill Social Security, so we'll live out our elder years in abject poverty. Their hope? Even lower taxes for themselves.
When anyone complains, they accuse us of "wealth envy." I don't envy them. I feel sad for them, and angry at their lack of regard for their own mental and physical health--and ours.
They are absolutely certain that they work harder than, say, the guy repairing their electric line outdoors during a blizzard at 3am. So they demand special tax breaks and shield their money in cute schemes and offshore tax-free havens. God forbid they should pay their fair share so the rest of us can have decent schools and safe bridges.
They use their wealth and power to try to force the rest of us--including those who do backbreaking labor--to work until we're 68, 69, 70. Long after our bodies wear out. They try to kill Social Security, so we'll live out our elder years in abject poverty. Their hope? Even lower taxes for themselves.
When anyone complains, they accuse us of "wealth envy." I don't envy them. I feel sad for them, and angry at their lack of regard for their own mental and physical health--and ours.
444
That's the problem with the winner take all society. The smug assurance of those at the top that everyone who hasn't spent all their waking hours relentlessly climbing are slackers who should be thankful for whatever wages they manage to earn. Gone is the appreciation for the people of the (formerly) broad based middle class who did an honest day's work and went home to spend time raising their families. Those folks are now derided as the takers.
And the world of the elite is incredibly insular. They seldom look down to see how much higher they are than everyone else, but are constantly looking up to see who is higher. A relative of mine, then a partner at an elite law firm, once remarked to me that he and his partners deserved the seven figure partnership comp they routinely earned each year because "no one can do what we do." Likewise a colleague recently argued that a senior executive who earned $600,000 last year was right to be annoyed because he was basically working for "no money."
Truly we are in another gilded age. I think few of us realize how great the divide has become between the 99% and the top 1%.
And the world of the elite is incredibly insular. They seldom look down to see how much higher they are than everyone else, but are constantly looking up to see who is higher. A relative of mine, then a partner at an elite law firm, once remarked to me that he and his partners deserved the seven figure partnership comp they routinely earned each year because "no one can do what we do." Likewise a colleague recently argued that a senior executive who earned $600,000 last year was right to be annoyed because he was basically working for "no money."
Truly we are in another gilded age. I think few of us realize how great the divide has become between the 99% and the top 1%.
Have you any idea what "the guy repairing their electric line outdoors during a blizzard at 3am" makes??? It's called the "market"... It's called "the right to choose"...
When is the last time you ever saw anybody in this country do back breaking labor?? Give me a break.
Maybe people who go off on oil rigs being paid pretty handsomely because they were free to go to N. Dakota or someplace that was desperate for workers? I haven't seen or heard about anyone do back breaking labor in decades. We have machinery for most things. Landscapers? Lots of machinery. Maybe house movers, those guys do some hard work.
You perpetuate the myth that Americans are still busting sod on the prairie or laying railroad track by hand. Not in your lifetime, sorry.
The only people working long hours these days are the people who want to get to the top. It's their choice and if they want to spend their lives chasing the money- they are welcome to it. But don't try to act like some teacher or construction worker is out working them. They are not.
Maybe people who go off on oil rigs being paid pretty handsomely because they were free to go to N. Dakota or someplace that was desperate for workers? I haven't seen or heard about anyone do back breaking labor in decades. We have machinery for most things. Landscapers? Lots of machinery. Maybe house movers, those guys do some hard work.
You perpetuate the myth that Americans are still busting sod on the prairie or laying railroad track by hand. Not in your lifetime, sorry.
The only people working long hours these days are the people who want to get to the top. It's their choice and if they want to spend their lives chasing the money- they are welcome to it. But don't try to act like some teacher or construction worker is out working them. They are not.
I would add two points. First there are many career paths where there clearly is a pyramid and outsized rewards for getting near the top, but your success is not linked to some one else's failure. You essentially create your own position at the top by doing your job well and therefore creating demand for your services. Management consulting and parts of the legal world operate like this and the best firms attract the most successful performers. To succeed, you do have to work your tail off, and you do have to deal with trade offs between you family/personal life and your career, but that is your choice to make.
Secondly this "pyramid" or "fast track" phenomena is not found just in the business world. In academia the completion for positions at the elit universities and for tenure, once you get there is at least as brutal. There are very few business careers where the only two options after 7 to 10 years of effort, are either guaranteed life time employment or essentially being fired. How truly merit based the final decision is also a question. At least in venture capital, you ultimately know exactly how well your companies do, even if you may have to wait a long time for your answer.
Secondly this "pyramid" or "fast track" phenomena is not found just in the business world. In academia the completion for positions at the elit universities and for tenure, once you get there is at least as brutal. There are very few business careers where the only two options after 7 to 10 years of effort, are either guaranteed life time employment or essentially being fired. How truly merit based the final decision is also a question. At least in venture capital, you ultimately know exactly how well your companies do, even if you may have to wait a long time for your answer.
18
"I would add two points. First there are many career paths where there clearly is a pyramid and outsized rewards for getting near the top, but your success is not linked to some one else's failure. You essentially create your own position at the top by doing your job well and therefore creating demand for your services. Management consulting and parts of the legal world operate like this and the best firms attract the most successful performers. To succeed, you do have to work your tail off, and you do have to deal with trade offs between you family/personal life and your career, but that is your choice to make."
You act as if these places are meritocracies. The number of women and minority partners is still abysmally low and I've been reading the same story with the same excuses for over 30 years, including this one, published two days ago:
"Many Black Lawyers Navigate a Rocky, Lonely Road to Partner"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/business/dealbook/many-black-lawyers-n...
Success does depend on pure merit alone, but on having senior people consider you valuable enough to be developed and brought along. Their willingness to groom you still often depends on whether you resemble them or if they like you for reasons having nothing to do with your work.
You act as if these places are meritocracies. The number of women and minority partners is still abysmally low and I've been reading the same story with the same excuses for over 30 years, including this one, published two days ago:
"Many Black Lawyers Navigate a Rocky, Lonely Road to Partner"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/business/dealbook/many-black-lawyers-n...
Success does depend on pure merit alone, but on having senior people consider you valuable enough to be developed and brought along. Their willingness to groom you still often depends on whether you resemble them or if they like you for reasons having nothing to do with your work.
I rolled my eyes when I read that Jeff Bezos wants employees to email him about abuses. Jeff, really, we're not that stupid. Glassdoor has been sharing for years that there is no work life balance at Amazon. The NYT merely placed it on the front page and laid bare a terrible culture in "Amazonia" land. I for one will buy less via Amazon and nothing when I can wean off my kindle to another device.
67
So who will you buy retail from? Walmart? Or one of the many other USA retail chains that pays low hourly wages and rarely offer full time hours? Good luck finding that perfect saintly retailer.
8
Sadly, Glassdoor gives in to corporate pressure. I wrote a detailed description of problems at one engineering firm that engaged me: Glassdoor said that I revealed confidential information. I took a hard look at my review of the firm. I could find nothing confidential. I had a security clearance in the service: I know confidential --- I was trained to know confidential.
1
Remember that Amazon owns a bunch of other companies too: Zappos, 6pm, Diapers.com, etc., etc. Its goal is no doubt retail domination.
Small businesses hire "management consultants" to run more efficiently. They throw their weight around and put an end to family friendly policies to make themselves look good and fuel their egos. In the end the business owner has wasted cash, lost customers, and is worse off than before she hired the "management consultant."
13
With the disappearance of unions and the consideration of the rights of workers across the nation, the decent treatment of people in the workplace has deteriorated since the 1970s. That, along with vanished entry-level jobs with benefits have led to the work that is available being very unrewarding for many.
Of course, for those at the top times could not be any better.
Of course, for those at the top times could not be any better.
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Over the years, whenever I spoke to friends working for American multi-nationals in France, the narrative was generally the same. American management who openly expressed disdain and frustration for the government mandated vacation, maternity, compassionate, and sick leave which they perceived as much too generous. They often tasked the human resources and legal departments with trying (unsuccessfully with vigilant unions) to get around the social legislation any way they could. The value system in these companies was so different that nobody I knew lasted long.
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Susan have you been to France, operated a business there? I suspect not...you forgot the 32 mandated work week, impossible works council (union on steriods) that keep poor employees. Ahh if you checked there economy lately you would find it going down the tubes....nobody would open a business there, Germany is more business friendly.
That would be the France with an unemployment rate of 10.2% and a European leading budget deficit of -4.1% of GDP and a current accounts balance of -10.5 billion - another record for a major European country this year.
It is a shame that more countries can't follow this lead.
It is a shame that more countries can't follow this lead.
Europeans are lucky to have vigilant unions who make sure nothing is taken away from our work benefits. It is true that some countries are whittling away at benefits but Italy has just extended parental leave for children up to 12 years of age.
I imagine Netflix thinks it is giving a great gift when it lets its manager level (i read over women earning over $300,000) have maternity leave. And their secretaries? I can't imagine how American families and women in particular manage to have a job and a family. They are to be complimented. In addition I can't see spending several thousand dollars to have a baby.I didn't pay anything to the hospital nor for pre and post natal care.
I imagine Netflix thinks it is giving a great gift when it lets its manager level (i read over women earning over $300,000) have maternity leave. And their secretaries? I can't imagine how American families and women in particular manage to have a job and a family. They are to be complimented. In addition I can't see spending several thousand dollars to have a baby.I didn't pay anything to the hospital nor for pre and post natal care.
1
Working in this environment takes its toll and requires hard work life balance choices, but it's not compulsory and employees may leave at any time.
It's also important to recognize that these employees are the ones often described by some as "millionaires and billionaires" (i.e., those making in excess of $250 thousand/yr). I commend the NYT for reporting on how hard they work for their money. Maybe it will cause a few of their critics to realize that they should be able to keep a fair share of their hard earned money after taxes.
It's also important to recognize that these employees are the ones often described by some as "millionaires and billionaires" (i.e., those making in excess of $250 thousand/yr). I commend the NYT for reporting on how hard they work for their money. Maybe it will cause a few of their critics to realize that they should be able to keep a fair share of their hard earned money after taxes.
10
Yes, cultural shifts are slow, but they do happen and they surprise us when they are here. Whatever a narrow-minded economic equilibrium says (there will always be workers willing to sacrifice their lives in a rank and yank system), the cultural and moral tendency is for a "third metric" of success; not money or power, but a satisfying life. It's alien to americans, but not even to the western world: Europeans have internalized the difference between living to work, and working to live.
19
Is there evidence that the most competitive workers are necessarily the best? Edison would have made the cut at a place like Cravath, Einstein probably not.
18
It is one thing to expect hard work. You are technically hired on the concept of a 40 hour work week and while you are at work, it is fair to except to work hard, be efficient, and complete tasks within deadlines. It is another thing to accept the cultural abuse that occurs in these job settings. The stacking system and peer reviews are destined to lead to abuses and misuses. People sending clandestine emails to their bosses or to human resources about colleagues undermines team work and trust which are essential to a good working environment. Not all of us want to climb to the top of food chain. Maybe some of us want a good job and want to do it well and then go home to our families. Why isn't this okay?
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" . . . where only the best are destined . . . ."
Is it truly the the "best" or is the the most aggressive, competitive and even hostile that succeed in the winner-take-all business environment?
Is it truly the the "best" or is the the most aggressive, competitive and even hostile that succeed in the winner-take-all business environment?
31
What these "best" deserve is to be shamed and shunned at every turn.
And now I see why teachers are being subjected to increasingly harsh and unrealistic demands. The business leaders who have co-opted education policy are taking the inhumane, work-at-all-hours, data-driven, cutthroat ranking processes they use in their corporations and applying them to teaching. Sad, for the employees who work at those corporations and for the teachers who must suffer the same policies, and for much less monetary reward.
36
I think they should try teaching before they subject teachers to their business concept. Let them go into a classroom before they tell Teachers how to teach. Teaching is a 24 hour job even now without dding "business practices". A greal deal of work is done out of the school hours: subjet preparation, lesson preparation, evaluation of students, courses on teaching methods, parental meetings, student activity advisors. We won't even discuss the monetary award.
As Jack Welch said, every job has a work life balance. If you aspire to a high level job in an elite company the balance is titled toward work and away from your personal time. What the article misses is that people who aspire to these jobs find a lot of satisfaction in the competition and the work that they do. Yes a lot fall by the wayside, but that's the choice they made.
10
They seem to me to be more an example of stunted and broken human beings, and in the case of the managers at Amazon, clearly sociopaths. We already know that the financial industry is rampant with them after the crash of 2008 and the subsequent looting of the American citizen.
There is an old rule about how to run a company: "Treat your employees the way you want them to treat your customers." I don't know what it is like to use the services of Cravath, et al., but I'm pretty sure that is won't be the kind of relationship I'd prefer as a customer. While Amazon does deliver good service, they are annoying in their constant hectoring to buy-more-stuff. Since that is all e-mail based I get to ignore it, but I still don't like it.
Of course, when human resources are in excess of demand this type of corporate behavior will continue. I'm old enough to have lived through many of the high unemployment cycles and can remember firms that got really nasty when unemployment was high. Unfortunately, most of the bosses that had great success during high unemployment could not adapt to periods of low unemployment and they suffered mass out-migration of key people that they were unable to replace.
Another saying: "What goes around, comes around" is also applicable. The companies that abuse their employees will someday be abused by the marketplace. This kind of success is fleeting. As a consumer I prefer to spend my cash where the management cares about their employees and that translates into employees that care about their customers and I'm willing to pay a premium for that. So, Amazon, et al., be happy you have low prices.
Of course, when human resources are in excess of demand this type of corporate behavior will continue. I'm old enough to have lived through many of the high unemployment cycles and can remember firms that got really nasty when unemployment was high. Unfortunately, most of the bosses that had great success during high unemployment could not adapt to periods of low unemployment and they suffered mass out-migration of key people that they were unable to replace.
Another saying: "What goes around, comes around" is also applicable. The companies that abuse their employees will someday be abused by the marketplace. This kind of success is fleeting. As a consumer I prefer to spend my cash where the management cares about their employees and that translates into employees that care about their customers and I'm willing to pay a premium for that. So, Amazon, et al., be happy you have low prices.
11
"Treat your employees the way you want them to treat your customers."
That does not apply to large law firms. Clients are royalty, employees are serfs.
If you are an important client, you could put in a call at 3 a.m. and someone would get back to you quickly.
That does not apply to large law firms. Clients are royalty, employees are serfs.
If you are an important client, you could put in a call at 3 a.m. and someone would get back to you quickly.
Reader, et al.,
I'm not an attorney and haven't used one for more that real-estate and wills. Your comment says that the customers treat the attorneys in these high end firms shabbily.
The reality for most businesses is that a poorly treated employee takes out a lot of frustration on the customers and the business suffers accordingly.
I'm not an attorney and haven't used one for more that real-estate and wills. Your comment says that the customers treat the attorneys in these high end firms shabbily.
The reality for most businesses is that a poorly treated employee takes out a lot of frustration on the customers and the business suffers accordingly.
Until my recent retirement, I worked for a myriad of top French companies and came into contact with all levels of employees ,who spoke to me freely about their professional and personal lives. Although there were the occasional gripes about office politics, management etc., I never heard about anything like the abusive work practices at Amazon or others of its ilk. Paid vacation (five weeks) and weekends were deemed necessary and sacred. When I was pregnant and when I came back from breast cancer surgery (three months paid sick leave) I was cautioned about trying to do too much, and never made to feel I was slacking. Why do US workers continue to vote for people who keep toxic, and often poorly paid, working environments in place just to feed the 1 percent ? There are other choices.
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The kind of jobs described in the article are the 1%, or close to them. People will do anything to get a job that pays $200, $300, $400K. If you really do well, you'll be making $1 million a year or more at a major bank, brokerage house, or law firm. That's why they do it.
I also live in Paris. My friends and spouse who work for French companies enjoy the humane (I won't say "generous" as they really should be the societal norm everywhere) vacations and paid leave. But the workplaces they describe are as bad as Amazon. People regularly backstab, scheme and sabotage their coworkers in order to take their jobs, because in France the only way to get ahead is to bump off the person whose job you want, since employment policies make it very difficult to fire people and once they obtain a position they tend to stay put. OTOH, a friend here worked for a US plastics manufacturer. She loved her coworkers, who were nicer than in a French corporate environment, but when she went on maternity leave she was laid off without notice. This is illegal in France. Her American manager told her "tough luck", she took them to court and won a five figure settlement.
So we can burn all those management books on employee team work then and no more tedious seminars on the subject. A whole industry goes up in flames.
24
John from Hartford-- this idea of teamwork among management employees has been a sham for years. As a retiree of the auto industry, and as a production worker for thirty years after graduating from college, I can tell you that one of the reasons yhe industry got itself in so much trouble was this merit-based dog-eat-dog way of running the business. I remember 30 years ago working for this young African-American floor -level supervisor who had a wife and two kids. He had bought tickets for a christmas time Florida vacation, and two days before they were scheduled to leave, he received word that he had to stay in the plant during the holidays. Why? Who knows... Our plant totally shut down over the holidays; we weren't working. Other managers were laughing at him behind his back. Then, another time, I was working with a lady whose father had been a high-level manager. During her teenage years, his wife finally persuaded him to take yhe family on a vacation out West. They made it to the middle of Missouri, and then he turned them around and came home; he was worried sick yhat someone would take his job. And then there was the manager who was a first-shift supervisor, who was sitting at home on a Sunday night, when his boss showed up on his front-doorstep and informed him he was on third shift and had to be in at work in 90 minutes. It went on and on.
If you ever want to know why a college grad didn't go to management, understand the above, and why production was unionized.
If you ever want to know why a college grad didn't go to management, understand the above, and why production was unionized.
The organization I for which I work just changed their evaluation criteria to emphasize teamwork and collaboration more strongly. However, promotion is still highly competitive, and employees are sorted and ranked against each other as individuals, not teams. I guess the future challenge will be to show how you are simultaneously a good team player, but better than everyone else on your team.
@ lamplighter.
My comment was intended to express skepticism about the teamwork shtick and more particularly the whole educational and publishing circus it spawned. That said, the concept cannot be entirely dismissed. To accomplish any major project or move an organization forward requires a fair measure of cooperation and mutual support. I'm a college grad who went into management (after working for the government for a couple of years) and worked in major and small to mid sized corporations and ultimately ended up running one. As for the stories about the auto industry (which don't exactly sound like Gulag experiences) it tends to conflict with my second hand experience where the problem was entrenched managerial bureaucracy not job insecurity. Like Bezos I can't imagine why anyone would want to work at Amazon based that story (which I'm sure is 80% accurate).
My comment was intended to express skepticism about the teamwork shtick and more particularly the whole educational and publishing circus it spawned. That said, the concept cannot be entirely dismissed. To accomplish any major project or move an organization forward requires a fair measure of cooperation and mutual support. I'm a college grad who went into management (after working for the government for a couple of years) and worked in major and small to mid sized corporations and ultimately ended up running one. As for the stories about the auto industry (which don't exactly sound like Gulag experiences) it tends to conflict with my second hand experience where the problem was entrenched managerial bureaucracy not job insecurity. Like Bezos I can't imagine why anyone would want to work at Amazon based that story (which I'm sure is 80% accurate).
However kinder the work policies, the intense competitive environment and the one-upmanship race to be seen in the corporate world of today might have contributed to enhancing productivity gains for the companies and material rewards for the performing employees, but has certainly alienated the latter from the society and family. The work outcome and wealth creation at a great personal cost indeed!
35
You have to have enough self respect, and an appropriate setting of personal priorities, to not allow oneself to be victimized in such a situation. These situations ruin marriages and relationships, make people worse parents than they could have otherwise been, and ultimately, compromises health and shortens lives.
When you are young, you think you can take it, tough it out, and things will get better. Often it doesn't, and the toll it takes on a person may not be evident until years later. Believe me, I know from experience.
When you are young, you think you can take it, tough it out, and things will get better. Often it doesn't, and the toll it takes on a person may not be evident until years later. Believe me, I know from experience.
253
Amazon and such employs thousands of workers who are foreign to Western work ethics and American idea of dignity and self-respect.
The hysteria around cases "manager told me" looks like revenge of passive-aggressive disgruntled employees.
In my almost 4 years at Amazon nobody gave me unilateral orders.
All the communications were based on ownership, trust and respect.
Sometimes I had to say no. And - while upsetting some managerial figures - it did not ruin anyone's career.
Many rank-and-file employees lack critical soft skills, such as ability to resolve conflicts and deal with ambiguity. They do their best and follow their cultural heritage, usually acquired in their families, during early years of childhood. Apparently, the homegrown soft skills are inadequate for real world.
Should businesses take the responsibility of teaching their employees such fundamentals?
The hysteria around cases "manager told me" looks like revenge of passive-aggressive disgruntled employees.
In my almost 4 years at Amazon nobody gave me unilateral orders.
All the communications were based on ownership, trust and respect.
Sometimes I had to say no. And - while upsetting some managerial figures - it did not ruin anyone's career.
Many rank-and-file employees lack critical soft skills, such as ability to resolve conflicts and deal with ambiguity. They do their best and follow their cultural heritage, usually acquired in their families, during early years of childhood. Apparently, the homegrown soft skills are inadequate for real world.
Should businesses take the responsibility of teaching their employees such fundamentals?
Some of us are not so bitter and have had quite a pleasant work experience.
RM: "You have to have enough self respect, and an appropriate setting of personal priorities, to not allow oneself to be victimized in such a situation."
I agree but would add that it's easier said than done, particularly when there are people who depend on you for their next meal etc. We should expect companies to be actively compassionate (particularly if we are to think of them as people).
I agree but would add that it's easier said than done, particularly when there are people who depend on you for their next meal etc. We should expect companies to be actively compassionate (particularly if we are to think of them as people).
2
Rank and yank: great for those who survive the system, perhaps. Not so great for those who fall off the ladder. And that presupposes that the ranking systems are fair. I suspect that many rating systems are influenced by office politics and other factors unrelated to productivity. Add the work-life imbalance created and you've got a dubious system.
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Not so great for the rest of us either, even those not part of the grotesque "system". These rank and yank survivors, budding and accomplished sociopaths now go on to be part of the oligarchy, buying politicians and ruling the rest of us.
Added to this, these tech companies are lobbying for more H1-B visas so that if they cant out source they can get cheap labor to exploit. The tech cartel, as I call them, make dubious claim that they dont get enough competent tech workers meeting their job requirements - it is ruse to keep wage pressure and improve their bottom line. Our policy makers in DC must wake up.
Some of us remember those days when the general prediction went that automation, research, and "progress" would lead us all to lives of ample leisure--a fundamental assumption being that leisure for self, family, athletic, aesthetic, or social development, was in itself a high goal.
How is it that this dream has been totally twisted, to the point that leisure has become meaningless, and every waking hour not devoted to the employer is assumed spent making oneself more employable ?
How is it that this dream has been totally twisted, to the point that leisure has become meaningless, and every waking hour not devoted to the employer is assumed spent making oneself more employable ?
344
We got there because all of the productivity gains over the past 35 years have benefited only the top 1%.
1
No rest for the underlings is their rule of thumb. I keeps the peasant knowing who they are dependent on. If you don't like it, then leave and be labelled an 'undesirable malcontent' for the rest of your life. You no longer have any real choice.
Back in the 1960's those making the predictions were smoking some good weed.
Certain people in the citadels of legal and political and corporate power have always made noises about wanting to be more humane. I think it started at roughly the same time that Czeckoslavakia purported to put a humane face on Communism. That Eastern European inkling of liberal feeling was bludgeoned by a Warsaw Pact Invasion in August of 1968. The whispers of a liberal reformation in American business always seemed suspect to me, and I think they've largely been eclipsed by bigger and bigger work loads seen today. Hey, it's not like real estate is reasonable. It's a war out there.
18
The Washington Post ought to have a some perspective by now into Jeff Bezos' way of doing business. Readers are waiting...
35
Well, wasn't it the Washington Post that famously assigned the same story to two different reporters with the better story to be published? I've heard that many people don't find The New York Times a congenial workplace, notwithstanding the prestige.
Any major newspaper has its share of highly competitive, not always very nice people, and from what I hear, journalism isn't a flourishing field. That spells extreme pressure.
Any major newspaper has its share of highly competitive, not always very nice people, and from what I hear, journalism isn't a flourishing field. That spells extreme pressure.
I agree, Leigh... I haven't seen anything (yet) in the WaPo. A lot on another hard-charging management-type (Trump) and a little on another failed CEO (Fiorina; Carly, whose cutesy name disguises her manager-from-Hades personna) but nothing on the big-boss Bezos.
I'd hope Harold Meyerson would write the article, but I imagine it will be an apologist like Robert Samuelson who will get drafted to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
I'd hope Harold Meyerson would write the article, but I imagine it will be an apologist like Robert Samuelson who will get drafted to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
1
Is it possible that it's, um, global Capitalism?
It's Capitalism, stupid—to echo Mr. Clinton.
It's Capitalism, stupid—to echo Mr. Clinton.
15
Indeed, SG - we need the comforting competence of socialism in its place!
I have counseled and represented executive, managerial and professional employees in NYC and elsewhere for over 30 years. The competitive culture is more intense than I have ever seen it. But each individual has a choice among human values and commercial values every day. I have turned away from the big-firm partner income and instead chose a somewhat different path. My good health, close relations with my children and sense of purpose in my life are the results of my choice. I have never felt as strongly as I do today that "The rich have money but the wealthy have time."
148
From one Al to another, your post is eloquent. Well done.
1
Time is something you buy with money. Ask anyone who's working three jobs just to keep his head above water.
You were fortunate enough, and in a field that enabled you to make sufficient money, to purchase back your time.
In Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore. the First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir Joseph Porter, KCB, fancies himself a common sailor and attempts to join them in hornpipes, etc. to which one comments, ' 'e means well, but 'e don't know'.
I think you mean well, but you don't know. You have the wherewithal to decide you have enough money and can enjoy the things your financial security has purchased for you. But for most of us, 'human values' include food, clothing, and shelter, and we must choose 'commercial values' just to keep going another day.
You were fortunate enough, and in a field that enabled you to make sufficient money, to purchase back your time.
In Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore. the First Lord of the Admiralty, Sir Joseph Porter, KCB, fancies himself a common sailor and attempts to join them in hornpipes, etc. to which one comments, ' 'e means well, but 'e don't know'.
I think you mean well, but you don't know. You have the wherewithal to decide you have enough money and can enjoy the things your financial security has purchased for you. But for most of us, 'human values' include food, clothing, and shelter, and we must choose 'commercial values' just to keep going another day.
3
But remember the value of your time is inversely related to how much free time you have. Retired folks are not overly joyful with nothing to do !
All these rewards earned by an elite come from somewhere. Where? Who from?
I suspect it is the rest of us. As Elizabeth Warren said (in essence ), "you built a great company but it depends totally on infrastructure and environment that belongs to all of us."
I see no unavoidable reason why elite practices have to make the rest of us miserable. Imbalances in income could be adjusted by imposing heavy taxes on the winners of these ugly games. Europe has generous social welfare systems. Not us. Why?
Is it because Europeans had enough millennia of living in feudal economic systems that they finally got sick of it? Remember how they eliminated or at least put limits on their aristocracies?
I am wondering how much more misery we serfs have to endure here before we follow their example.
I can hear it now, the elites will scream "you are killing incentive and efficiency."
Yes, precisely. How clever of you to notice.
I suspect it is the rest of us. As Elizabeth Warren said (in essence ), "you built a great company but it depends totally on infrastructure and environment that belongs to all of us."
I see no unavoidable reason why elite practices have to make the rest of us miserable. Imbalances in income could be adjusted by imposing heavy taxes on the winners of these ugly games. Europe has generous social welfare systems. Not us. Why?
Is it because Europeans had enough millennia of living in feudal economic systems that they finally got sick of it? Remember how they eliminated or at least put limits on their aristocracies?
I am wondering how much more misery we serfs have to endure here before we follow their example.
I can hear it now, the elites will scream "you are killing incentive and efficiency."
Yes, precisely. How clever of you to notice.
163
There is a direct link between slavery and our lack of a social safety net.
But if I win a brutally competitive game why do not I get the financial spoils????
If I work and miss many of my child's school events, and you do not why I have give you the money I earned?
There are many people in foreign counties wanting to work excessively and create the next Goldman or apple or IBM...shouldn't we have people in our country try to compete?
It's not for most people but for some it is there calling...
Albert Einstein worked on his theory of gravitation 18 hours a day 7 days a week for several years...
To perform at the highest level in business, academics, the arts often takes near obsessive commitment...and personal sacrifice...
Thomas Edison slept in his lab...
You just so cavalierly say...tax them...they don't deserve it...self serving
If I work and miss many of my child's school events, and you do not why I have give you the money I earned?
There are many people in foreign counties wanting to work excessively and create the next Goldman or apple or IBM...shouldn't we have people in our country try to compete?
It's not for most people but for some it is there calling...
Albert Einstein worked on his theory of gravitation 18 hours a day 7 days a week for several years...
To perform at the highest level in business, academics, the arts often takes near obsessive commitment...and personal sacrifice...
Thomas Edison slept in his lab...
You just so cavalierly say...tax them...they don't deserve it...self serving
A company surely benefits from communal infrastructure- but so do you and I. A company owes us no more for roads and bridges than we owe the company.
1
As others have pointed out many, many companies abuse their employees. It is not just at the upper ranks either. I used to work for a very large home improvement company, the turnover rate of their first level supervisors was 45%. When asked about it, their response was "This is retail, its normal." Their hourly employees regularly had to work something called a 'Clopen.' They would close the store at 11 pm and come back in at 4 am to prepare for opening the next day. Since it was two different days with a break in between, it didn't count as a 'split shift.' As far as the company was concerned, they were making money, Wall Street loved them, and when they opened a new store, 1,000 people would apply for 150 openings, why change?
Its easy to point the finger at management for this culture, and they should shoulder most of the blame. Having said that, as long as we, the consumers, demand ever lower prices, are willing to accept shoddy merchandise and demand ever higher returns on our investment, companies will do whatever it takes to meet those demands. They will outsource American jobs to countries who are not our friends, who make cheap junk with no quality control, abuse their own workers and ruin their own country's environment to get our money.
So before you point fingers, look in the mirror, you are also part of the problem.
Its easy to point the finger at management for this culture, and they should shoulder most of the blame. Having said that, as long as we, the consumers, demand ever lower prices, are willing to accept shoddy merchandise and demand ever higher returns on our investment, companies will do whatever it takes to meet those demands. They will outsource American jobs to countries who are not our friends, who make cheap junk with no quality control, abuse their own workers and ruin their own country's environment to get our money.
So before you point fingers, look in the mirror, you are also part of the problem.
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I don't think consumers are even aware for the most part. If we want to change this, and we should, it has to be in the form of legal protections of the kind that were enacted during the New Deal.
Wow. Brilliant.
What's the mechanism by which I "demand" lower prices? If I pay more for something than I have to, did I automatically dodge supporting a sweatshop? It doesn't work that way. Sweatshop owners can price-gouge like anybody.
No one ever got rich by working long hours for someone else.
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Oh, I'm sure there are some at Apple, Amazon, and Microsoft who may disagree.
I did
1
Just not true. Do you know how many people got rich from working at Amazon, Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc?
2
I think it's appropriate for a company to expect excellence and commitment from its employees. A policy of regular, forced distribution, where people must be fired even if they're doing good work, belies a morality unworthy of that commitment.
Mr. Bezos loses the business from my household, until I know he's changed this policy.
Mr. Bezos loses the business from my household, until I know he's changed this policy.
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What I've noticed is that the hard-working people who get results are often the first fired. The gang-up mentality works against the notion of excellence. Ideas are not rewarded in today's workplace; mob rule is. Perhaps that's why Amazon has yet to show a real profit.
We have turned into a nation of vultures, just look at our political leaders as an example.
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Yes -- it's 'winner take all.'
Compromise be damned.
Compromise be damned.
The American work culture I see experienced by younger people I know is a horror show and now all the worse because no one is ever off, it is round the clock, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, glued to email and all the rest of the nightmare created by all these great technical advancements that are simply making slaves of everyone.
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We are no longer workers. We are now individual pieces of human livestock.
Customers have been doing this to businesses for years. There are lots of bad actors out there with poor planning skills. They call in the evening or 2-3 hours before business hours with their "emergencies". Sometimes I just tire of them with their schedule disrupting demands and ask, "Emergencies usually involve fire or flood. Which one do you have?" If I don't call them back in the evening and wait until morning they are angry and some take their business elsewhere. Good Riddance!
I and my employees have personal lives. As the owner I expect to have to deal with it. Employees tire of it and leave after too many requests to work overtime.
These bullies are making the experience of work worse than it has to be. With the competition and low profit margins of the last 20 years I was glad to finally retire. Even now some have tracked me down to take on projects they don't trust others to do. I sometimes take them but now it's on my terms. I don't move fast and I'm not cheap.
I and my employees have personal lives. As the owner I expect to have to deal with it. Employees tire of it and leave after too many requests to work overtime.
These bullies are making the experience of work worse than it has to be. With the competition and low profit margins of the last 20 years I was glad to finally retire. Even now some have tracked me down to take on projects they don't trust others to do. I sometimes take them but now it's on my terms. I don't move fast and I'm not cheap.
Bezos statements reported in the sidebar ring like lies. If that is the culture of his company, the one he founded and drove and built to what it is, then it is the culture he created, wants, expects and demands and to say otherwise is a lie.
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One suspects that those he encouraged to report such incidents will be 'yanked' for not getting with the program.
I've worked in both the start up world and finance over the past 17 years. The changes have been abrupt in both areas.
Tech people used to be talented from a bits and bytes perspective, but lacked personal communications skills--you kept them in a dark room, fed them pizza and Mountain Dew, and didn't let them talk to anyone (particularly customers) without a specialized "handler" sort.
Bankers were polished, worked incessantly, drank like fish, had unlimited expense accounts, and had a line of eager beavers in monkey suits out the front door eager to replace any 40-something who couldn't cut it...or who keeled over from the stress.
Lately, the local tech people have people skills and the bankers are an embarrassment, more or less. Coding is offshored. No one who wants a life and a wife (or husband, to be fair) goes into banking. Maybe he or she works for a PE/VC firm, but investment banking is for sociopaths.
Separately, one of the worst "metrics" that idiotic C-suite types started to use was "revenue per employee"...which is about as meaningless as it gets. That gutted admin staff and made everyone hire contractors who are not at all invested in the business.
If I can have two $100K/year employees working 40 hours per week who are B+ players, I will take that over a $200K/year employee working 80 hours per week roughly 90% of the time. There are a few exceptions to that logic, but precious few. More "really good" people working hard and collaboratively wins.
Tech people used to be talented from a bits and bytes perspective, but lacked personal communications skills--you kept them in a dark room, fed them pizza and Mountain Dew, and didn't let them talk to anyone (particularly customers) without a specialized "handler" sort.
Bankers were polished, worked incessantly, drank like fish, had unlimited expense accounts, and had a line of eager beavers in monkey suits out the front door eager to replace any 40-something who couldn't cut it...or who keeled over from the stress.
Lately, the local tech people have people skills and the bankers are an embarrassment, more or less. Coding is offshored. No one who wants a life and a wife (or husband, to be fair) goes into banking. Maybe he or she works for a PE/VC firm, but investment banking is for sociopaths.
Separately, one of the worst "metrics" that idiotic C-suite types started to use was "revenue per employee"...which is about as meaningless as it gets. That gutted admin staff and made everyone hire contractors who are not at all invested in the business.
If I can have two $100K/year employees working 40 hours per week who are B+ players, I will take that over a $200K/year employee working 80 hours per week roughly 90% of the time. There are a few exceptions to that logic, but precious few. More "really good" people working hard and collaboratively wins.
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In banking, maybe, but I haven't seen that in tech. Most of the value came from a few high-powered employees. Two low-powered employees did *not* equal the single high-powered one.
Except that in most of these firms, it's more about the stock options than the salary. Amazon has already seen its fastest growth. If I were an employee there who has a good chunk of vested stock options, I'd cash out and go elsewhere. Either to another promising start-up or to a job that offered a better work-life balance. There are jobs like that out there.
Loved the 'Mountain Dew' part, KT !
One wonders if the claim that this process is about sifting to find talent is not an ideology to gloss over its real purpose of maintaining control. Consider how effectively the process divides employees against themselves, diverts them from their common interests, invests management with a godlike aura, and internalizes managerial values so as to make employees implicit in their own exploitation. Only our modern age has glorified the attributes of running a business as a rarefied "talent." The skills required for "trade" used to be seen, as Samuel Johnson remarked, as morally suspect, tainted by "avarice," but at least "uniform and tractable." What we call a glorious talent was until rather recently seen as nothing but a sordid affair of money grubbing with a modicum of accounting and time management skill, but tolerable for its social utility. If the talent required were so great, why even today in most of the leading and most successful capitalist countries are family-owned firms so common and competitive? Wouldn't Murdoch shareholders be up in arms that Murdoch has no better critieria for its crucial management positions than the fact his successors are his sons?
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In addition to everything you say, which is utterly true, I'd add that the past 30 years or so have seen a sea change in the definition of management skills.
A hundred years ago, the stereotype was either of a father showing his son the company and saying 'someday, all this will be yours,' and starting him in the mailroom or the sales staff; or of Horatio Alger's Ragged Dick, the ambitious nobody who climbed the ladder. What both myths had in common was that the manager was knowledgeable and invested in a specific company or area of endeavor. By the time you got to be CEO of a car company, you knew all about cars.
Now 'management' is framed as a separate skill, regardless of whether the company makes toasters, or sells insurance, or publishes poetry. The MBA-trained 'manager' brings the same set of tools to every company ... and the tools are those of Dexter Morgan. So we shouldn't be surprised at the results.
A hundred years ago, the stereotype was either of a father showing his son the company and saying 'someday, all this will be yours,' and starting him in the mailroom or the sales staff; or of Horatio Alger's Ragged Dick, the ambitious nobody who climbed the ladder. What both myths had in common was that the manager was knowledgeable and invested in a specific company or area of endeavor. By the time you got to be CEO of a car company, you knew all about cars.
Now 'management' is framed as a separate skill, regardless of whether the company makes toasters, or sells insurance, or publishes poetry. The MBA-trained 'manager' brings the same set of tools to every company ... and the tools are those of Dexter Morgan. So we shouldn't be surprised at the results.
That unwarranted jab at Jimmy Carter was not only uncalled for, it was not substantiated by facts. Says much about professor Robert H. Frank trying to inject his personal political views where there is no politics being discussed.
P.S.: What about Reagan? Perhaps not being nice helped with the economy (tripling the debt) and protecting the country (treasonous dealing with terrorists).
P.S.: What about Reagan? Perhaps not being nice helped with the economy (tripling the debt) and protecting the country (treasonous dealing with terrorists).
18
Gee. I ddn't see it as a jab against Jimmy Carter but rather a reminder of the profound humanity of the man. and the symbolic power of the presidency. It may not have worked, but the message was not lost either..
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I myself perceived nothing remotely political about the author's reference to President Carter's admirable concern for the well-being of his staff. Perhaps peering at everything through the misshapen lens of partisan politics may distort the view a bit?
4
I didn't read it as a jab but someone trying to be a good boss.
H-1B is a great program for all these companies, whether they are top-tier or not. They can fire their American workers by their mid-30s, and replace them with younger, cheaper mostly Asian workers without families. These workers are completely dependent on their employers for staying here, particularly for a sought-after green card, and typically won't complain about anything or leave the company - perfect for today's sadistic manager.
They're also great for moving the technical work to Asia, the greatest money saver of all, because they understand the culture of their home country. Intel and Qualcomm have been demanding more H-1Bs, firing American workers, and moving some of their most advanced technology to China, under threats and bullying from Xi. Globalism is the contest of who is the greatest bully.
They're also great for moving the technical work to Asia, the greatest money saver of all, because they understand the culture of their home country. Intel and Qualcomm have been demanding more H-1Bs, firing American workers, and moving some of their most advanced technology to China, under threats and bullying from Xi. Globalism is the contest of who is the greatest bully.
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Is Globalism really at fault or is it a spineless lack of government regulation?
4
Reading your comment, it sounds like Asians are doing the jobs that Americans do not want to do, and cheaper too.
Only the Pharaoh got to be buried in the Pyramid, the slaves were whipped into the sand.
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@Lisa: Yes, and in the end ALL of them were dead.
2
Egyptians had a very sustainable society based on the principle of "Hotep", a word combining "food & peace".
The Romans took over and modified it to "bread and circuses".
Things became barbaric; then really bad when Marie Antoinette ordered "let them eat cake".
Did we learn anything from the fall of Rome or the French Revolution?
Abusing people is not leadership.
Abusing people creates the illusion of control, stimulates aggression, creates chaos, and divides people -- the primary goals in the Art of War.
Hyena harass their prey from every direction until it falls exhausted.
If a society can be persuaded to harass itself into exhaustion, the result is the same: chaos, exhaustion, defeat.
When united states cease to be so, the United States will cease to be.
Money is a means of managing motivation. Pursued for itself, it destroys wealth by destroying the quality of life & relationships that give money meaning.
Some US companies have lasted more that a hundred years.
What makes them stable? Harmony and purpose, Not greed.
Netherlands ranks #1 in quality of life (for children) according to the UN.
[US = #26 of 29] It's culture is based on Erasmus: "experience must precede learning." I.e. words are sound-symbols for experience.
Teaching words doesn't teach meaning.
Applying labels to experience does teach meaning. Experience comes first.
The best historians, artists, and inventors were amateurs who did what they did because they did what they loved doing.
Don't create hate.
The Romans took over and modified it to "bread and circuses".
Things became barbaric; then really bad when Marie Antoinette ordered "let them eat cake".
Did we learn anything from the fall of Rome or the French Revolution?
Abusing people is not leadership.
Abusing people creates the illusion of control, stimulates aggression, creates chaos, and divides people -- the primary goals in the Art of War.
Hyena harass their prey from every direction until it falls exhausted.
If a society can be persuaded to harass itself into exhaustion, the result is the same: chaos, exhaustion, defeat.
When united states cease to be so, the United States will cease to be.
Money is a means of managing motivation. Pursued for itself, it destroys wealth by destroying the quality of life & relationships that give money meaning.
Some US companies have lasted more that a hundred years.
What makes them stable? Harmony and purpose, Not greed.
Netherlands ranks #1 in quality of life (for children) according to the UN.
[US = #26 of 29] It's culture is based on Erasmus: "experience must precede learning." I.e. words are sound-symbols for experience.
Teaching words doesn't teach meaning.
Applying labels to experience does teach meaning. Experience comes first.
The best historians, artists, and inventors were amateurs who did what they did because they did what they loved doing.
Don't create hate.
The American military has a system of culling people that works pretty well, though I suspect there are enormous injustices and unfairnesses built in. It is basically this: either you get promoted within a set period of time or you are out, unwanted. It is either up or out. The result is the people who make it to the very top are generally quite smart, very well informed, capable of handing many different types of situations and generally well rounded in a variety of ways, including intellectually.
In truth, this kind of "up or out" system is informally employed across professions. What happens in many cases is that employee who can't move up gets shifted aside to some safer job out of the line of fire and, in varying degrees, coasts. He or she might be "deadwood" in the harshest appraisal, but able to otherwise perform needed and perhaps repetitive tasks without great initiative involved.
All of the world runs on the energy and, in varying ways, the exploitation of the young. Law firms pile mountains of boring work on new law grads, daring them to either do it or run for the hills. Mostly, it consists of "document reviews". Meanwhile, they bill as though the green lawyers actually knew something about the law.
The highly competitive atmosphere in the DC area, where I live, can even be seen in the way people drive, always cutting in, even racing to a red light ahead to get one car ahead. In Texas, where competition is more muted, people stop and let you in, all the time.
In truth, this kind of "up or out" system is informally employed across professions. What happens in many cases is that employee who can't move up gets shifted aside to some safer job out of the line of fire and, in varying degrees, coasts. He or she might be "deadwood" in the harshest appraisal, but able to otherwise perform needed and perhaps repetitive tasks without great initiative involved.
All of the world runs on the energy and, in varying ways, the exploitation of the young. Law firms pile mountains of boring work on new law grads, daring them to either do it or run for the hills. Mostly, it consists of "document reviews". Meanwhile, they bill as though the green lawyers actually knew something about the law.
The highly competitive atmosphere in the DC area, where I live, can even be seen in the way people drive, always cutting in, even racing to a red light ahead to get one car ahead. In Texas, where competition is more muted, people stop and let you in, all the time.
41
Some time back the military realized it was losing officers with valuable technical skills because of "up or out." No, they didn't progress in rank; but they were valuable in their job, and there was no one to replace their experience in skills.
The military was going to do something about that. I wonder if it ever bothered.
The military was going to do something about that. I wonder if it ever bothered.
2
Your comments echo my workplace experience.
What seems to have changed drastically in recent times is the reduction of any tolerance for under performance or laxity. This is a good development in creating intensity and professional dedication, but a poor one in human terms. The stresses on marriages, children, extended families and the general well being of the employee are incalculable.
In my own case, I entered television news at a fairly advanced level at a young age. Back then, my own belief was that there were three stages in one's career: moving up, moving down or moving out, with very little stasis. It seems this applies generally these days in almost all fields.
In my own case, I entered television news at a fairly advanced level at a young age. Back then, my own belief was that there were three stages in one's career: moving up, moving down or moving out, with very little stasis. It seems this applies generally these days in almost all fields.
This has been going on in corporations for a very long time. Which is why so many Americans never take vacations. They are terrified that two weeks will see them coming back to a pink slip for not being a true company man/woman.
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That's what happened to me. They waited until I was back from my vacation for 2 weeks and then they downsized me. It was age discrimination, and a refusal to allow me to learn our new financial system. Six months after they got rid of me they hired someone who was about 15-20 years younger, cheaper, and who they can fire in a few years because that person too will cost too much. What I've learned in 35 years of working in America is this: it doesn't matter how hard or how well you work, they will fire you anyway. They will give you great reviews, love your work ethic, and then turn around and tell you to get lost. I've seen it happen to some wonderfully competent, intelligent coworkers but almost never to the incompetent ones. They seem to stay and continue to create problems for their more competent colleagues. And, to top things off, these same incompetents take credit for their competent colleagues work and ideas.
13
I always laughed in medical school when they kept emphasizing "work-live" balance. Unfortunately in med school the day is about 12 hours too short to make that possible and even less so in residency. You would think doctors would be able to do basic math, but somehow token lip service is more fun then telling the truth. The irony about the modern workplace is that very very few people who bust their hump will get to the top. It is unfortunate that managers and executives use this to over work everyone. On top of that, there is competition from people all over the globe who are more willing to be slaves. Anyway, the deck is stacked against the employee. I am glad that I work for myself. It is no picnic, but I do not find all the cars, big houses, and social status to be worth it.
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Being a workaholic in America is an accepted, admired character trait. It has been this way since Ben Franklin wrote about the virtues of hard work in his Poor Richard's Almanac. Those around the workaholic may wish it to be otherwise, but the position is an unassailable one in our culture. Only two things matter to the majority of white-collar male employees: 1) having as big a pile of money as they can by the time they are in their early 50s, and, 2) having attained the highest position possible within their place of employment. Everything else is secondary.
They also know that at that point in their careers, they are vulnerable to being displaced by younger employees who will work for less, and by being laid off when their companies have a downturn in revenue. Career downshifting is almost guaranteed by that point for most of these workers.
48
I only know about who will be running the workoholics of the future...it's central premise is like yours, in two parts:
1. Obtain and bring back alien life specimen.
2. Crew expendable..repeat, all other priorities are rescinded....
1. Obtain and bring back alien life specimen.
2. Crew expendable..repeat, all other priorities are rescinded....
11
'they are vulnerable to being displaced by younger employees who will work for less, and by being laid off when their companies have a downturn in revenue'
I would amend that slightly. They are vulnerable to being laid off even if their company is making money hand over fist, if the top brass decide they want to goose the stock price. Investors respond to layoffs as a Pavlovian signal - it's automatically assumed that means Bizco is getting 'lean and mean'.
I would amend that slightly. They are vulnerable to being laid off even if their company is making money hand over fist, if the top brass decide they want to goose the stock price. Investors respond to layoffs as a Pavlovian signal - it's automatically assumed that means Bizco is getting 'lean and mean'.
1
It is not just Amazon. All big corporation have perfected squeezing fun out of work to maximize returns for the 1%.
Have you seen workers at Starbucks? Do you have any non-corporate coffee-shops in your area to compare?
In Providence RI Seven Stars is small bakery and coffee-shop with only four stores and Blue State cafe with only two locations. They have very similar line of business as Starbucks but much happier workers. I often wondered why. I hope this article opens the more general topic of investigation of emotional safety in the workplace.
Have you seen workers at Starbucks? Do you have any non-corporate coffee-shops in your area to compare?
In Providence RI Seven Stars is small bakery and coffee-shop with only four stores and Blue State cafe with only two locations. They have very similar line of business as Starbucks but much happier workers. I often wondered why. I hope this article opens the more general topic of investigation of emotional safety in the workplace.
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You make a good point with an apt example.
I think the real villain in this is the "winner take all" mentality that is taking over the economy.
In that dark world that is emerging, Starbucks won't quit until they've run Seven Stars and Blue State out of business.
The same is true of Walmart and Home Depot -- how many local and regional businesses have they destroyed on the road to No. 1?
This is not about identifying the top achievers a la Cravath. It is about destroying the competition.
I think the real villain in this is the "winner take all" mentality that is taking over the economy.
In that dark world that is emerging, Starbucks won't quit until they've run Seven Stars and Blue State out of business.
The same is true of Walmart and Home Depot -- how many local and regional businesses have they destroyed on the road to No. 1?
This is not about identifying the top achievers a la Cravath. It is about destroying the competition.
4
There is a Fairly Small Family Run Hamburger chain in our City. Wildly Successful. For Decades. They run a Happy place. They only recently expanded to a couple more locations after careful thought & Listening to Public opinion.
Despite Pressure to expand, they have remained Purposely small & Local & Like it that way. How strange that there would be Folks who are Content. Satisfied with their way of life, & also helping other have Jobs at the same time.
Not everyone wants to spend their entire Waking existence from Birth till Death, Slashing and Burning & Hacking to get that extra Dime. Only to arrive & Never seem to have enough.
Despite Pressure to expand, they have remained Purposely small & Local & Like it that way. How strange that there would be Folks who are Content. Satisfied with their way of life, & also helping other have Jobs at the same time.
Not everyone wants to spend their entire Waking existence from Birth till Death, Slashing and Burning & Hacking to get that extra Dime. Only to arrive & Never seem to have enough.
2
Policies are window dressing. Every organization has different, unwritten, rules of attaining levels of advancement and you ignore those rules at your risk. The folks who complain about them usually are the ones who can't or won't follow them.
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The smarter ones among them leave.
1
Or who don't pick up on them because they're not included in the important cliques.
1
I moved to New York from London to be part of this competition. I grew up very modestly, yet from day one I knew I wanted to be the best or die trying. Soon my career in London wasn't enough and I flying to New York was the most exciting moment of my life. I was "All In". Competition, success and praise drove me everyday. I looked for this excitement. And part of maturing is knowing how to handle demanding managers to protect yourself while all along you plot to take their job. For some, this is life. This is why we live.
18
You really don't think people don't see people like you coming from a mile away? Work fetishism really is a petit-bourgeois trait, because you certainly haven't lost it. You live for nothing, fool.
29
Oy.
3
Good for you. And I'm not being sarcastic. If this is what drives certain people to excel, then great. It's when everyone is held to the same standard - a standard that can be unrealistically high depending on your life circumstances, and you're deemed a loser if you don't meet the standard - that's the problem.
5
"Root hog or die" is a good philosophy. For hogs.
39
The issue is more general than the treatment given it in this op-ed. What makes the general argument so hard to sell is that remedial attempts focus on imposing unnatural limitations on EVERYONE. It’s the argument made by the guy who wants a nice, 9-5 life protected by getting the hard-charger to charge less hard. Never did work, and we’ve had hard-chargers since LONG before we ceased owning the world’s economy and lost the ability to provide middle-class jobs to all our kids at little effort.
The problem is that we no longer CAN offer those easy middle-class jobs to our kids because better-prepared kids in other countries are taking them, and people not emotionally suited or even equipped for real competition are falling further and further behind as the objective value of their labor diminishes relative to that of the hard-chargers.
We may need to pay some more than their labor appears to be worth and find other ways to incentivize and reward hard-chargers. But we’re not going to make hard-chargers of those who aren’t, and we’re not going to get rid of the real McCoy. Competition, whether it’s from Indians and Chinese or merely from the guy or gal in the next cube who wants that promotion too … isn’t going away. We need to focus on managing impacts.
As far as the Cravath “tournament” and Amazon sifting goes, those that practiced them were always few and elite. You don’t solve social challenges by focusing on your most elite exemplars – they can take care of themselves.
The problem is that we no longer CAN offer those easy middle-class jobs to our kids because better-prepared kids in other countries are taking them, and people not emotionally suited or even equipped for real competition are falling further and further behind as the objective value of their labor diminishes relative to that of the hard-chargers.
We may need to pay some more than their labor appears to be worth and find other ways to incentivize and reward hard-chargers. But we’re not going to make hard-chargers of those who aren’t, and we’re not going to get rid of the real McCoy. Competition, whether it’s from Indians and Chinese or merely from the guy or gal in the next cube who wants that promotion too … isn’t going away. We need to focus on managing impacts.
As far as the Cravath “tournament” and Amazon sifting goes, those that practiced them were always few and elite. You don’t solve social challenges by focusing on your most elite exemplars – they can take care of themselves.
31
This is disingenuous. We don't have middle-class jobs for our young people because most of those jobs have been outsourced to places with far cheaper labor.
1
They aren't 'better prepared'; just cheaper. The decline of quality in the products I purchase - and in the quality of the work I've seen when working with overseas contractors - exposes the flaw in your argument.
The joke pinned on many a cubicle wall was 'good, fast, cheap: pick any two'. What we have now is what you get when one of the two is not 'good'.
Competition, in the form it has taken, is not giving us what was initially promised, i.e., better goods and services, general prosperity, a stable and productive economy.
Because (as I read your numerous posts) you haven't been in the regular work force for some time, you are not aware that the 'tournament' - or more appropriately 'musical chairs' - has been going on in the lower echelons and throughout the economy, in all sectors and at all levels, for some time.
The joke pinned on many a cubicle wall was 'good, fast, cheap: pick any two'. What we have now is what you get when one of the two is not 'good'.
Competition, in the form it has taken, is not giving us what was initially promised, i.e., better goods and services, general prosperity, a stable and productive economy.
Because (as I read your numerous posts) you haven't been in the regular work force for some time, you are not aware that the 'tournament' - or more appropriately 'musical chairs' - has been going on in the lower echelons and throughout the economy, in all sectors and at all levels, for some time.
2
JL and ACW:
Stop it. We don't solve our problems by refusing to acknowledge their causes. We have an educational system that fails, even in our best neighborhoods, to kick-start our kids beyond adolescence, while the rest of the world puts the fear of whatever they call God in their kids from an early age. That was fine when I was a kid, but we still owned the world when I was a kid. We don't anymore, and we need a new model.
ACW -- I never left the regular work force, and I know very well what goes on at ALL levels of competitive endeavor. Competition doesn't owe you or society a justification for its existence: it simply is, always was and always will be. It's the effort by individuals to distinguish themselves and carve out the best life they can -- happens everywhere, in every society I've seen, and I've seen more than a few.
And back to both of you -- you're burying the lead looking for someone to blame. Indians and Chinese and all the other usual suspects for taking American middle-class jobs are in as much trouble as we are, because those jobs are in the process of being taken by machines, hardware and software, the ultimate "cheap". But until we figure out a brave new world in which that can happen and people can still have decent lives, expect that competition, at all levels, will persist in seeking to distinguish and grab as much of the pie as a person can manage.
Stop it. We don't solve our problems by refusing to acknowledge their causes. We have an educational system that fails, even in our best neighborhoods, to kick-start our kids beyond adolescence, while the rest of the world puts the fear of whatever they call God in their kids from an early age. That was fine when I was a kid, but we still owned the world when I was a kid. We don't anymore, and we need a new model.
ACW -- I never left the regular work force, and I know very well what goes on at ALL levels of competitive endeavor. Competition doesn't owe you or society a justification for its existence: it simply is, always was and always will be. It's the effort by individuals to distinguish themselves and carve out the best life they can -- happens everywhere, in every society I've seen, and I've seen more than a few.
And back to both of you -- you're burying the lead looking for someone to blame. Indians and Chinese and all the other usual suspects for taking American middle-class jobs are in as much trouble as we are, because those jobs are in the process of being taken by machines, hardware and software, the ultimate "cheap". But until we figure out a brave new world in which that can happen and people can still have decent lives, expect that competition, at all levels, will persist in seeking to distinguish and grab as much of the pie as a person can manage.
The tournament style systems work because we have technology that allows us to be "at work" when we're not at work. We're always connected to the office and, in some places more than others, management expects their team to respond as soon as possible - even if that's late at night.
This expectation is pervasive in New York. And if you think about it, it isn't the managers' fault. The problem here is that clients and consumers now expect services and goods to be provided as fast as the speed of light. We can't fix the work-life balance problem without changing these expectations.
This expectation is pervasive in New York. And if you think about it, it isn't the managers' fault. The problem here is that clients and consumers now expect services and goods to be provided as fast as the speed of light. We can't fix the work-life balance problem without changing these expectations.
16
This is simply incorrect. The "tournament" at Cravath and similar firms goes back decades before email, to the early days of the telephone. It has nothing to do with blackberries or the ability to log in remotely.
It has to do with ultra competitive people, and ultra high rewards. Before voicemail, law firms had answering services. There was always a way to be connected to the office.
It has to do with ultra competitive people, and ultra high rewards. Before voicemail, law firms had answering services. There was always a way to be connected to the office.
21
see what a bezos really is like........
written a few years ago
http://brad-stone.com/book/
The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon
Amazon.com started off delivering books through the mail. But its visionary founder, Jeff Bezos, wasn’t content with being a bookseller. He wanted Amazon to become the everything store—a store that offered limitless selection and seductive convenience at disruptively low prices. To do so, he developed a corporate culture of relentless ambition that transformed retail in the same way Henry Ford revolutionized manufacturing.
Brad Stone enjoyed unprecedented access to current and former Amazon employees and Bezos family members, giving readers the first in-depth fly-on-the-wall account of one of the world’s most secretive companies. Compared to technology’s other elite innovators—Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg—Bezos stands out for his restless pursuit of new markets, which has led Amazon into risky new ventures like the Kindle, Kindle Fire and its cloud computing business.
THE EVERYTHING STORE will be the revealing, definitive biography of the company and its remarkable founder.
written a few years ago
http://brad-stone.com/book/
The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon
Amazon.com started off delivering books through the mail. But its visionary founder, Jeff Bezos, wasn’t content with being a bookseller. He wanted Amazon to become the everything store—a store that offered limitless selection and seductive convenience at disruptively low prices. To do so, he developed a corporate culture of relentless ambition that transformed retail in the same way Henry Ford revolutionized manufacturing.
Brad Stone enjoyed unprecedented access to current and former Amazon employees and Bezos family members, giving readers the first in-depth fly-on-the-wall account of one of the world’s most secretive companies. Compared to technology’s other elite innovators—Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg—Bezos stands out for his restless pursuit of new markets, which has led Amazon into risky new ventures like the Kindle, Kindle Fire and its cloud computing business.
THE EVERYTHING STORE will be the revealing, definitive biography of the company and its remarkable founder.
It's only stuff, for goodness sake. Not a cure for cancer.
26
I should note. Its very negative on Amazon. It was written a few years ago. Shows a very cold and calculating Jeff Bezos. Amazon is lucky its company is based on capital and not real talent. Real talent will never work for Jeff Bezos and if it did he would have to pay a lot for it and treat it very differently than he does everyone else. Maybe that is why the Amazon phone was so bad and cancelled because he cant hire real talent.
15
I'm disturbed by Amazon's practices, if true, but Amazon is not just stuff. It has changed the way people shop.
1
I worked at an elite management consulting firm (Luckily, I was in the back office and not a consultant).
They called it "up or out" - if you weren't promoted within 2 years, you were "out counseled" - where consulting firm and employee "mutually agree" that it's in the best interest of both parties to look for work elsewhere. Fortunately the severance packages were typically generous.
Even if for those who are out counseled, it's not a bad thing. They are paid pretty well for your efforts and get a great looking resume - they are still better off than those who never got in the door at all.
They called it "up or out" - if you weren't promoted within 2 years, you were "out counseled" - where consulting firm and employee "mutually agree" that it's in the best interest of both parties to look for work elsewhere. Fortunately the severance packages were typically generous.
Even if for those who are out counseled, it's not a bad thing. They are paid pretty well for your efforts and get a great looking resume - they are still better off than those who never got in the door at all.
22
Provided they still have their marriages and their health.
1
Not all companies offer a generous severance package, so it can be a very bad thing in some cases.
What's not clear to me is proof that this employee culling involves those who devote the max hours, isn't it possible to work smart and get ahead and still make it home for dinner? I think the first couple years at a new job you need to crank up the hours but once you've hurdled that learning curve winning high rev business is about being smarter, not necessarily working all hours. No?
32
No. There is a hazing system at these winner-take-all companies. The ugly truth is that they don't want you to work smart; if they did they would allow you to sleep. Instead, they want to see just how hungry you are and what you are willing to put up with. You cannot choose the best way to use your time or the best way to approach a problem. Creativity suffers, problem solving suffers, and work quality suffers, but management doesn't care as long as you suffer.
111
Personally, I would never hire someone who felt the need to come in on a Saturday to work. Automation has increased to such an extent that most office workers don't actually work 50-60 hours in a week (or really, even 40). Anyone who says otherwise is a liar, no matter how ambitious or competitive they'd like to think of themselves as. Lawyers are special kinds of suckers, dumb enough to enter a profession where their compensation will ultimately depend on the number of hours in a year they can work, bur for everyone else I would wonder why employees would need to to take 60 hours to get the work done that they'd ought to be able to do in 40. Goldman Sachs and the others in the deal-making businesses are far more likely to reap the dividends that would come from insisting their people hit the driving range on Saturdays instead of wasting their time doing nothing except for looking busy in the office.
10
Yeah right! How many managers actually "know" what each employee is doing, and how effective they are? Very few, I would say. Therefore, "being at work" stands in as a proxy for "working". I agree, 2 very different things, but typically clueless managers are lazy and will just choose the person who is at their desk more.
I have always lived by the motto "work smarter, not necessarily harder", but that only seems to apply to the self-employed and when working at progressive, forward thinking companies.
And yes, having 2 very good workers putting in 40 hours a week typically beats one superstar doing 80 hour weeks.
Let's take Track and Field as an example. Last year, the 1st and 2nd place high school boys in the 400m in Oregon in the largest division ran 47.89 and 48.64. Combined, these 2 sprinters (top high schoolers, but high schoolers nonetheless) combined an 800m time of 1:36.53. In comparison, the men's world 800m record is held by the incomparable David Rusisha in 1:40.91, likely a record that may stand for 2 decades.
If those 2 high school boys are your two excellent 40 hour a week workers, and David Rudisha is your 80 hour a week, best in the world superstar, employers are getting significantly more performance out of the team of 2. It is no different in the workplace. People don't function effectively during 80 hour work weeks, unless they are resorting to drugs and other shortcuts. Soon followed by a crash.
Why push people to these limits?
I have always lived by the motto "work smarter, not necessarily harder", but that only seems to apply to the self-employed and when working at progressive, forward thinking companies.
And yes, having 2 very good workers putting in 40 hours a week typically beats one superstar doing 80 hour weeks.
Let's take Track and Field as an example. Last year, the 1st and 2nd place high school boys in the 400m in Oregon in the largest division ran 47.89 and 48.64. Combined, these 2 sprinters (top high schoolers, but high schoolers nonetheless) combined an 800m time of 1:36.53. In comparison, the men's world 800m record is held by the incomparable David Rusisha in 1:40.91, likely a record that may stand for 2 decades.
If those 2 high school boys are your two excellent 40 hour a week workers, and David Rudisha is your 80 hour a week, best in the world superstar, employers are getting significantly more performance out of the team of 2. It is no different in the workplace. People don't function effectively during 80 hour work weeks, unless they are resorting to drugs and other shortcuts. Soon followed by a crash.
Why push people to these limits?
3
I read this while basking in the glow of a day I took off, giving myself a 3-day weekend. When I go back to work tomorrow, I will be refreshed and in a positive mindset, which means I will be more of an asset than if I tried to keep going while being drained. Everyone needs time to enjoy, focus on other things in life, and recharge themselves.
150
All very interesting but there is a major difference between a high stakes system where punishing hours and sacrifice give participants an opportunity for a significant payoff and systems that continually ratchet up pressure and demands to produce a gain that accrues primarily to those at the top. If I choose to play in the tournament because I seek the prize that is one thing; to have others place me in a tournament so they may profit from my labor is a very different kind of system. Many of us may decide we do not want to be part of tournaments because we do not believe in the value system, because we do not like the odds, because we do not identify as tournament players, or whatever, but it is our choice. I happen to work in a field where client satisfaction and effective support often require devoting more time to an individual or organization than managers wish to invest for maximum throughput. Aiming for maximum numbers may make sense in immediate profitability but our long-term vitality depends on repeat business and referrals. Ironically managers in a tournament-based system might see referrals as a plus but when they come at the cost of immediate billable hours regular managers are more focused on having their sections looking good this quarter......who knows where they will be next quarter? The real danger is ratcheting up workloads and expectations simply to enable those at the top to enjoy a richer lifestyle at the cost of quality production.
189
No, whether you place yourself or others place you is exactly the same thing. In both cases you choose to enter or to be placed. If that doesn't suit you, don't do it. Tons of other places to go.
If people continue to make the exchange of life for success, let them. Who are you or I to determine their choices?
If a firm is so awful, then go start your own and give lots of hugs and kisses. When you go bankrupt because the high-producers by definition far outproduce you and get better outcomes, well why should the client accept something lesser when something better is available? You certainly wouldn't in your daily pursuit of goods and services.
If people continue to make the exchange of life for success, let them. Who are you or I to determine their choices?
If a firm is so awful, then go start your own and give lots of hugs and kisses. When you go bankrupt because the high-producers by definition far outproduce you and get better outcomes, well why should the client accept something lesser when something better is available? You certainly wouldn't in your daily pursuit of goods and services.
4
You assume that the client always gets better service or products from the "tournament" based organizations. This very often is not true, and when the client or customer figures this out, the firm has lost them forever. Or, the firm has to create a monopoly, so that the client has no choice but to buy from that organization if he wants the product. What Bezos did with Amazon has been very destructive because he destroyed so many small bookstores and other local businesses. Customers did not understand the full consequences of their actions and how it would affect them and their communities when they bought from Amazon.
1
Well said.
Anyone who has ever worked in a ' rank-and-yank ' environment knows the shortcomings and lack of teamwork that results - the original article is replete with enough quotes from Bezos about not becoming a country club, about working ' hard, smart, and long ' without choosing 2 of the 3, and pithy shareholder letter quotes that there is no doubt where the ethos comes from.
And we understand why he's justifiably embarrassed that now it's both widely and well-known.
And we understand why he's justifiably embarrassed that now it's both widely and well-known.
306
Huge results-based incentives promised to managers of all levels often turn them into tyrants. This is one of the most powerful tools available to the corporate world. I would like to see this curbed to reasonable fractions of income.
56
Curbed by who exactly? It is emergent, it does not get curbed. Make new laws - people will just work themselves like crazy.
There is a power structure in every single system and economy in the globe. It is not possible to remove it. The competitive figure out how to play in it no matter what the political or economic system. In free countries they play by the rules of economics and work, in communist ones they play the game of power-broking and influence collection. The former is at least objectively far more fair.
There is a power structure in every single system and economy in the globe. It is not possible to remove it. The competitive figure out how to play in it no matter what the political or economic system. In free countries they play by the rules of economics and work, in communist ones they play the game of power-broking and influence collection. The former is at least objectively far more fair.
5
While I was disappointed to hear that the Amazon article may or may not accurately reflect the reality at hand, this article misses an important point when it uses Goldman Sachs and other investment banks as examples of the "competitive workplace." Unlike law firms, there is a major war of talent going on, with the bulk of analysts (those out of undergrad) going to take more lucrative jobs with better lifestyles in private equity and at hedgefunds, as well as Silicon Valley. Since investment banking is no longer as profitable as before and pay is significantly lower than pre-2008, these banks have had to resort to focusing on lifestyle in order to continue to attract and retain talent. Faced with an annual brain drain, the banks will continue making banking seem more attractive simply because they have to, and the inability to recruit the best people (many of whom go to private equity, hedge funds, and tech right out of college) keeps senior bankers up at night more than almost anything else.
14
There is also talent struggle for law firms, as fewer people are going to law schools - who wants $200k of debt which effectively makes law an indentured servitude? Thus, quality of people even from Harvard or Columbia law has declined. Even then law firms are slow to change and generally lack management focus and vision. The firms are run by partners who do management as a side job to handling their matters, rather than dedicated professional management team.
1
This is why we need unions and federal workplace laws. Europeans work humane hours, get guaranteed benefits, and can only be fired with good cause. The libertarian philosophy of "let the market decide" is inane, because markets are human creations, run by humans. They are not abstract or predetermined. We create our society and the rules that govern it, and it's time that we respect the people who build this country.
488
The fact that markets are run by humans is why they work. But they certainly are not created by humans, rather they are emergent from the forces of people pursing their goals.
Markets are why people are able to exchange goods and improve their lives. Where they don't exist, poverty and despair rule.
Workplace laws do nothing but lead to stagnation and elimination of the workplace. Europe which you mention, is the case in point. Nobody in France wants to hire anyone, because it is so hard to fire them.
Furthermore, laws do absolutely nothing. The article itself point out that company self-imposed ones do nothing. Why would external ones be any better? The ambitious will simply ignore them and work late anyway and/or from home. Shall we assign a policeman to every American's living room to ensure they are tuning in to American and Idol and not their email?
Markets are why people are able to exchange goods and improve their lives. Where they don't exist, poverty and despair rule.
Workplace laws do nothing but lead to stagnation and elimination of the workplace. Europe which you mention, is the case in point. Nobody in France wants to hire anyone, because it is so hard to fire them.
Furthermore, laws do absolutely nothing. The article itself point out that company self-imposed ones do nothing. Why would external ones be any better? The ambitious will simply ignore them and work late anyway and/or from home. Shall we assign a policeman to every American's living room to ensure they are tuning in to American and Idol and not their email?
5
It won't work. Unions work only if there is a limited labor pool. If there are always qualified people who are willing to work for less, the union has no leverage. Job offshoring and H1b visas have enlarged the labor pool, forcing all of us to compete harder for less benefits. One could theorize about reducing impact of globalization, but, as consumers, we fuel it by favoring the cheaper products made possible by the companies offshoring jobs and hiring H1b visa employees.
8
A lot of the employees in these places probably wouldn't seek to unionize because they all hope they'll be the one grab the brass ring. They would never do anything to antagonize their bosses.
It is not a cooperative and corrective keiretsu so much as gang rule. Perhaps the gang sets up the best actual talent for expulsion? No one talks to the "complainer" trying to avoid say the equivalent of failed seat bags or fatal software flaws. The system has been gamed too well. Bezos' response shows he is not open to seeing overall internal systemic failure.
Has Amazon considered that people don't need more stuff? Or the sub 1% will just not have the money to spend? Or that people need a roofer more than one of the white collar guys?