“It would be surprising if the board didn’t take preventive action to protect its residents’ quality of life,” said Bruce A. Cholst, a Manhattan real estate lawyer. “It’s the essence of what a board does.” When I read this quote I had to laugh out loud. In many buildings the essence of what the board does is to show the resident/ shareholders who is boss. The quality of life in the building is only a concerned if board members are discomfited.
26
To the Party Planning Neighbor. Are you a total fussbudget? Do you sit at home with your ear plastered to the door so you can hear the deliveries? I'm just picturing someone sitting inside their apartment, looking out the windows at what the neighbor does and tsk tsk tsking all day long as opposed to having a life of their own.
I imagine the deliveries happen during the day - not in the middle of the night - and that they are relatively quiet? Perhaps you can just speak to your neighbor directly? Or are you afraid of being called out for being a nosy fussbudget with no life of their own?
Many people work from home these days and it shouldn't be a crime, unless they are making undue noise, having tons of people making noise coming and going etc. Retail is dying because we all order things online now - so expect more deliveries for all. Perhaps they can just leave them in the lobby if there is a doorman - or if it gets to be offensive and there is no doorman, they can arrange to have the deliveries sent elsewhere.
There are other solutions than just complaining to the board so one can hide under the cover of darkness and make the problem someone else's (so you have something else to complain about when they do nothing?). Speak kindly and directly with the people involved. It'll save everyone much hassle and headache.
I imagine the deliveries happen during the day - not in the middle of the night - and that they are relatively quiet? Perhaps you can just speak to your neighbor directly? Or are you afraid of being called out for being a nosy fussbudget with no life of their own?
Many people work from home these days and it shouldn't be a crime, unless they are making undue noise, having tons of people making noise coming and going etc. Retail is dying because we all order things online now - so expect more deliveries for all. Perhaps they can just leave them in the lobby if there is a doorman - or if it gets to be offensive and there is no doorman, they can arrange to have the deliveries sent elsewhere.
There are other solutions than just complaining to the board so one can hide under the cover of darkness and make the problem someone else's (so you have something else to complain about when they do nothing?). Speak kindly and directly with the people involved. It'll save everyone much hassle and headache.
47
If the allegedly not-noisy neighbor is young enough to have a roommate, chances are their gatherings are full of young people, who as a rule seem to talk and enjoy themselves far louder than is reasonable or necessary, especially to older ears. The reasons could vary, from years of listening to loud, percussive music, to being told by parents that they were "special," to just being part of the Screaming Me-Me-Me Generation. I love the beach, and usually, the only sounds are the ocean and the irritating voices of the hipsters who invariably park themselves within earshot, which is more than 100 feet away, believe it or not. Yeah, I'm "old," according to their lights, but I hated loud people when I was young too.
51
Anyone who is dumping ice water on people is unhinged, and does not deserve the courtesy of a knock on the door and verbal engagement. Get the landlord and the police involved ASAP.
64
If the co-op doesn't allow renters to run their businesses within the co-op walls, the letter writer is certainly within his or her rights to complain.
But I have to ask: How is the writer's quality of life materially affected by this surreptitious party planner? Do the messengers and package deliverers arrive bearing noisemakers in the middle of the night? Would the writer have a problem with a neighbor who receives social guests during the day and happens to order from Amazon a lot? This seems a bit petty.
But I have to ask: How is the writer's quality of life materially affected by this surreptitious party planner? Do the messengers and package deliverers arrive bearing noisemakers in the middle of the night? Would the writer have a problem with a neighbor who receives social guests during the day and happens to order from Amazon a lot? This seems a bit petty.
72
A call to the landlord and the police about the ice water thrower on the fourth floor is a good idea. If not battery, it is certainly harassment. If the back yard can't be used in a reasonable way, the value of the apartment is diminished by the loss of the outdoor space and the rent should be lowered to compensate.
About the rent check - if the management company is receiving payment, but the renter's account is not being debited, it is likely the bank is drawing funds from the wrong account. The bank will figure it out eventually, but the renter should ask the bank to investigate.
About the rent check - if the management company is receiving payment, but the renter's account is not being debited, it is likely the bank is drawing funds from the wrong account. The bank will figure it out eventually, but the renter should ask the bank to investigate.
24
I think the ice water slinger is aggressive, if not outright mentally ill.
34
Considering how hot this summer has been why not just dress for it?
3
I like the beach umbrella suggestion, and if that ends up feeling too passive, some water guns might be a nice addition.
5
dumping ice water on people is battery. call the police.
32
People tend to considerably under-estimate the noise they and their guests make, especially when they're outdoors. And if the previous tenants did not entertain outside or did so very quietly, then the upstairs tenant is probably having a very hard time adjusting.
On the other hand, I hardly imagine Hell's Kitchen is a quiet neighborhood to begin with. I used to be a Noo Yawka and peaceful enclaves in Manhattan are awfully rare and tend to be surrounded by owner-occupied premises...
That said, how does one not contact one's landlord immediately if another tenant is basically assaulting one and one's guests? You need to write a letter to someone who can tell you that?
And to those rent checks--seriously. You can't just secretly keep money gained through a bank error. That's gonna come back and bite you big...
On the other hand, I hardly imagine Hell's Kitchen is a quiet neighborhood to begin with. I used to be a Noo Yawka and peaceful enclaves in Manhattan are awfully rare and tend to be surrounded by owner-occupied premises...
That said, how does one not contact one's landlord immediately if another tenant is basically assaulting one and one's guests? You need to write a letter to someone who can tell you that?
And to those rent checks--seriously. You can't just secretly keep money gained through a bank error. That's gonna come back and bite you big...
26
Regarding the ice bucket challenge...
Two options:
1) Order a canopy or umbrella for your evening soirées
2) If your building has a fire hose on the fourth floor, why not return the volley by walking up to the fourth floor immediately after the next such event, turning on the fire hose, knocking on said neighbor's door, and soaking him/her profusely when the door opens?
You certainly have witnesses to the 4th floor buffoon's aggressive, while he/she likely will not, and your actions will not have been unprovoked.
Two options:
1) Order a canopy or umbrella for your evening soirées
2) If your building has a fire hose on the fourth floor, why not return the volley by walking up to the fourth floor immediately after the next such event, turning on the fire hose, knocking on said neighbor's door, and soaking him/her profusely when the door opens?
You certainly have witnesses to the 4th floor buffoon's aggressive, while he/she likely will not, and your actions will not have been unprovoked.
5
Because the neighbor will sue you for ruining his sofa, carpets, appliances et cetera. As appealing as revenge sceanarios sound, just call the police/landlord.
21
Regarding the backyard noise and icy response -- I suspect there's more going on here as the letter writer says that s/he hasn't received a complaint "in person". This suggests that a complaint has been made and apparently not responded to, at least not enough to satisfy the upstairs neighbor. The letter also gives the sense that backyard entertaining is not a rare occurrence since the cold shower has occurred "more than once."
I've had the experience of living above party central and so I'm sympathetic to how it can drive you to the desperate act of tossing cold water out the window; the noise can be so bad you'd do anything to get relief. Moreover, the warranty of habitability would certainly apply first to the upstairs neighbor's peace and quiet before it applied to the terrace tenant's right to noisily entertain.
Instead of making the one being disturbed be forced into getting a white noise machine or having to knock on doors and plead for the volume to be turned down, how about having the one creating the disturbance -- the new tenant who has moved into an existing and apparently quiet environment -- fix the problem s/he created in the first place? This is one that the landlord should resolve as the folks on the 4th floor (and everyone else on floors 2, 3, etc.) have the right to peace and quiet, which I would think would trump party privileges.
I've had the experience of living above party central and so I'm sympathetic to how it can drive you to the desperate act of tossing cold water out the window; the noise can be so bad you'd do anything to get relief. Moreover, the warranty of habitability would certainly apply first to the upstairs neighbor's peace and quiet before it applied to the terrace tenant's right to noisily entertain.
Instead of making the one being disturbed be forced into getting a white noise machine or having to knock on doors and plead for the volume to be turned down, how about having the one creating the disturbance -- the new tenant who has moved into an existing and apparently quiet environment -- fix the problem s/he created in the first place? This is one that the landlord should resolve as the folks on the 4th floor (and everyone else on floors 2, 3, etc.) have the right to peace and quiet, which I would think would trump party privileges.
43
It is kind of interesting that floors 2 and 3 apparently have lodged no complaints, isn't it?
19
We don't know that. Perhaps they have. All we know is that they seem to have not also gone as far as dumping water.
17
I have lived next door to loud partiers as well and it is a nuisance. The first step in these situations is always an attempt at a civil conversation. Dumping ice water from the fourth floor, repeatedly, is absurd.
20
"More than once, while I have been entertaining guests in the backyard..."
At what volume?
At what volume?
35
Maybe if you invite the ice dumper to the party he'll stop being so grumpy.
11
I was thinking the same thing. Invite him and if he asks can he bring anything, tell him yes, ice for the drinks.
I know I'm a Pollyanna. Next I envision the 4th floor grumpy guy falling in love with the widowed mother of one of the partiers and at their wedding instead of throwing rice they throw tiny ice cubes.
And honeymoon in Iceland.
Or Antarctica.
But that's just me.
I know I'm a Pollyanna. Next I envision the 4th floor grumpy guy falling in love with the widowed mother of one of the partiers and at their wedding instead of throwing rice they throw tiny ice cubes.
And honeymoon in Iceland.
Or Antarctica.
But that's just me.
20
I applaud the restraint the garden apartment tenant showed towards the ice-water dumping neighbor - it is definitely an assault. The neighbor had several options, going downstairs to advise about noise (we often don't realize how loud we are). S/he could have called police, 311, landlord or even yelled from the window. I would not have tolerated this multiple times. Even if the party neighbor is obnoxiously loud, violence isn't an appropriate response. While it's "just" water, the downward force could cause injury - ex: dislodging a window box or pot, startling a guest and causing a fall, etc.
34
Thank goodness we live in the house we own on 0.25 acre and have no close neighbors.
18
Wow, almost the size of Trump's swimming pool. Not much room for livestock though.
5
As for the party planning business, the article says:
But a board is not obligated to enforce each and every rule
I thought that it is the legal responsibility of the Board to enforce the rules.
Or does that apply just to the bylaws?
But a board is not obligated to enforce each and every rule
I thought that it is the legal responsibility of the Board to enforce the rules.
Or does that apply just to the bylaws?
10
Boards have virtually no legal obligation to do anything......in truth it is hard to enforce a board's duties to shareholders because of the current state of the law in NY regarding board actions. Shareholders are at the mercy of boards because of the inappropriate and expansive application of the business judgment rule. Power than can be exercised without oversight soon becomes absolute and abusive.
6
While I do not condone the ice showers, shouldn't the following also apply to the 4th floor neighbor ?:
You have a right to the quiet enjoyment of your property
You have a right to the quiet enjoyment of your property
49
The premise is that the outdoor events were not loud (implied) and were before 10 pm (stated). In Hell's Kitchen (west mid-Manhattan) an expectation of being able to live with open windows and without a cacophony of ambient noise is neither a reasonable expectation nor a right. There are almost certainly other small back yards in the interior of the block where people gather without taking vows of silence; this is the only one the upstairs neighbor can reach with ice water. That upstairs neighbor sounds like a poor fit for his ultra-urban environment.
Semi-related query: What about a beach umbrella or two? Looks innocuous - but sure would frustrate the heck out of the bully if placed properly.
Semi-related query: What about a beach umbrella or two? Looks innocuous - but sure would frustrate the heck out of the bully if placed properly.
60
Absolutely.
From this letter, it appears that every weekend, the renter holds loud parties that go on all day and do not end until 10pm.
How does this not make life unbearable for every other tenant all weekend, who also have a right to the quiet enjoyment of their property and to a warranty of habitability?
From this letter, it appears that every weekend, the renter holds loud parties that go on all day and do not end until 10pm.
How does this not make life unbearable for every other tenant all weekend, who also have a right to the quiet enjoyment of their property and to a warranty of habitability?
24
"Quiet enjoyment" doesn't refer to sound level. It refers to one's exclusive right to use and enjoy one's property. Sound issues are addressed by other local/jurisdictional regulations as well as lease or Board regulations.
6
Once you have the video and the police report you can go to the landlord to present your case to reprimand the violator more severely. Perhaps even have a reason to NOT renew the lease.
Don't be reactive at this point. Be effective by creating a trail of evidence. And be patient. Nothing happens overnight.