A harsh policy of sending most everyone back would cure the issue in a short time frame and save many lives from drowning. Each country in the West has limited natural resources and land to take care of their own, so why be forced to absorb more? I think those who constantly state more people should be absorbed, should donate most of their own personal wealth for these people. If collectively those supporting fully open unregulated borders would just redistribute their wealth to those desperate countries, maybe these people could stay home and make the most of it.
6
"Wealthy" countries do not have the ability to continue absorbing economic refugees. The problem isn't limited to Greece, or the U.S. Asia has many of the same problems with migrants and it is an unfortunate situation for both sides involved. Many of these people flood their destination nations and go right back to living the ways that led to their origin's demise and this is what needs to end.
7
"Many of these people flood their destination nations and go right back to living the ways that led to their origin's demise and this is what needs to end."
Bravo, Brian!
You are right on the money!
Bravo, Brian!
You are right on the money!
2
The only reason there are Greek welling to help those economic migrants is so they can get a move on and quickly pass to somebodyelse's backyard. It is cheaper to give them some handout and have them leave than to round them up and return them to Turkey. This is also why Turkey isn't enforcing border control knowing full well these people will be Greece's problem in a few days. If Germany and the Nordic nations closed their border, trust me, in a few days there will be Greek militias of unemployed people patrolling the coast and turn away any boats trying to make a landing.
The convention on refugees needs to be revoked. Most refugees nowadays are economic migrants shopping for the country willing to give them the biggest handout. The often compared Jewish cruise ship in 1938 was quite different. They were willing to go to any nation willing to let them stay.
The convention on refugees needs to be revoked. Most refugees nowadays are economic migrants shopping for the country willing to give them the biggest handout. The often compared Jewish cruise ship in 1938 was quite different. They were willing to go to any nation willing to let them stay.
5
Interestingly, Israel will not tolerate African migrants or asylum seekers, most of which are from Eretria and Sudan, and is deporting them with$3500 in cash and a one-way ticket back to Africa. Title of article - Israel PM: illegal African immigrants threaten identity of Jewish State.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/20/israel-netanyahu-african-im...
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/20/israel-netanyahu-african-im...
2
Here is an article from the NYT about illegal Haitian immigrants who were housed at Gitmo in the 1990s before it was a terrorist prison camp. Back then the Haitians were offered $16 to return to Haiti later the amount was increased to $80. The amount paid by Israel looks good in comparison.This was under the Clinton administration when our immigration laws were actually enforced. Turning back boats from Haiti while keeping other Haitians at Gitmo and away from the US stopped the Haitian boat people. The EU should be turning back boats with illegal immigrants. Or housing them on an island away from Europe.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/30/world/us-tells-haitians-held-at-guanta...
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/30/world/us-tells-haitians-held-at-guanta...
3
I am sure little george bush and his war profiting VP had nothing to do with creating this unsettled mid-eastern world. Probably it is Obama's fault
3
Several thoughts on this:
American foreign policy has done nothing to encourage peace in Syria and to cool down the humanitarian disaster that is the cvil war there. Instead, the US and other regional interests have encouraged and then threw gasoline on that civil war -- increasing human suffering on such a scale that belies any pretense of humanitarian benefits of regime change.
A distinction should be made between economic migrants and refugees.
They should have sought legal channels, and perhaps stayed in Turkey. If they are in Greece, it would be economically practical to pay Greece and create Greek jobs to help process and house them, rather than in a higher cost region such as Germany.
One reason that socialism is so strongly reviled here in the US, is due to the belief that "free-riders" & "untrustables" (racism may be part of this) will pull more from the system than other citizens put in. Game theory has shown that when some players are regarded to "cheat" without punishment in some way, then other players reflexively become less trusting and generous, accentuating individualist goals of the game & encouraging the spread of cheating/more selfish behavior among others, rather than cooperation.
If too many are seen to be pulling benefits from the socialist style safety nets in Europe than paying into them, then that socialist harmony could be damaged or collapse.
American foreign policy has done nothing to encourage peace in Syria and to cool down the humanitarian disaster that is the cvil war there. Instead, the US and other regional interests have encouraged and then threw gasoline on that civil war -- increasing human suffering on such a scale that belies any pretense of humanitarian benefits of regime change.
A distinction should be made between economic migrants and refugees.
They should have sought legal channels, and perhaps stayed in Turkey. If they are in Greece, it would be economically practical to pay Greece and create Greek jobs to help process and house them, rather than in a higher cost region such as Germany.
One reason that socialism is so strongly reviled here in the US, is due to the belief that "free-riders" & "untrustables" (racism may be part of this) will pull more from the system than other citizens put in. Game theory has shown that when some players are regarded to "cheat" without punishment in some way, then other players reflexively become less trusting and generous, accentuating individualist goals of the game & encouraging the spread of cheating/more selfish behavior among others, rather than cooperation.
If too many are seen to be pulling benefits from the socialist style safety nets in Europe than paying into them, then that socialist harmony could be damaged or collapse.
7
Meanwhile, the number of immigrants living in Germany rose by 3.7% last year to a record high of 11 million and a fifth of the population is of a migrant background.
The figures highlight Germany's growing reliance on foreign-born workers to drive its powerhouse economy, Europe's largest, as well as its acceptance of hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Many of the immigrants came from other EU nations, such as Poland, Romania, Italy, Bulgaria and Hungary.
Last year, the number of people living in Germany of a migrant background had risen by around 1.5 million, or 10%, from 2011. The native population -- excluding people of a migrant background -- fell by 1.4%.
The release of the report comes as tensions are rising in Germany over surging numbers of refugees, expected to more than double to a record 450,000 this year from 200,000 in 2014.
There were 150 arson or other attacks that damaged or destroyed refugee shelters in the first 6 months of 2015 as Germany struggles to cope with refugees fleeing war and violence in the Middle East, Asia and Africa.
The figures highlight Germany's growing reliance on foreign-born workers to drive its powerhouse economy, Europe's largest, as well as its acceptance of hundreds of thousands of refugees.
Many of the immigrants came from other EU nations, such as Poland, Romania, Italy, Bulgaria and Hungary.
Last year, the number of people living in Germany of a migrant background had risen by around 1.5 million, or 10%, from 2011. The native population -- excluding people of a migrant background -- fell by 1.4%.
The release of the report comes as tensions are rising in Germany over surging numbers of refugees, expected to more than double to a record 450,000 this year from 200,000 in 2014.
There were 150 arson or other attacks that damaged or destroyed refugee shelters in the first 6 months of 2015 as Germany struggles to cope with refugees fleeing war and violence in the Middle East, Asia and Africa.
8
Perhaps they will be the only people on that island who actually work for a living.
Clearly YOU don't "work/put in any effort to learn the truth about the situation in Greece. I've lived there, have friends and relatives there, and read up on what is going on - ordinary Greeks (until the crisis hit) put in more hours for less pay than any other EU country.
Their "leadership" for decades sold out the future of the country to international banksters. Germany now dominates Europe, accomplished with briefcases instead of Blitzkreig. The agreement forced onto Greece, familiar to the Germans, has the same punitive, crippling characterstics as the Treaty of Versaille signed after WWI.
So, expect civil war and fascism as a result in five years: fixing THAT will be far more expensive and socially painful for the EU than retiring a realistic portion of the debt. And while it IS unjust that EU taxpayers are footing the bill, one should ask how the the banksters loan risks, but no profits, been transferred to the public.
Expect no investigation into all the public ministers and Greek MP's who made gobs of money under the table from these loans, ill-considered military, public expenditures, etc. If they were, as they should be, the German officials + companies who bribed them and profited from these contracts/and sales would be exposed, along with the banks who now shelter the illegal Greek accounts in Europe. It's one thing the Greek and EU elite completely agree on: no forensic investigation of those individuals who sold Greek citizens and EU taxpayers downriver.
Their "leadership" for decades sold out the future of the country to international banksters. Germany now dominates Europe, accomplished with briefcases instead of Blitzkreig. The agreement forced onto Greece, familiar to the Germans, has the same punitive, crippling characterstics as the Treaty of Versaille signed after WWI.
So, expect civil war and fascism as a result in five years: fixing THAT will be far more expensive and socially painful for the EU than retiring a realistic portion of the debt. And while it IS unjust that EU taxpayers are footing the bill, one should ask how the the banksters loan risks, but no profits, been transferred to the public.
Expect no investigation into all the public ministers and Greek MP's who made gobs of money under the table from these loans, ill-considered military, public expenditures, etc. If they were, as they should be, the German officials + companies who bribed them and profited from these contracts/and sales would be exposed, along with the banks who now shelter the illegal Greek accounts in Europe. It's one thing the Greek and EU elite completely agree on: no forensic investigation of those individuals who sold Greek citizens and EU taxpayers downriver.
9
Europe's laws and governments are not protecting it from invasion. Time for new laws and governments. The EU structure only harms the European Peoples and should be abandoned. Asylum seeking has become a Refugee Industrial Complex in both Europe and the US. It must stop.
8
This report and the comments from this educated liberal readership explains Donald Trumps popularity. The comments are no more sympathetic to the "huddled masses" from Africa-Asia than he is to those from south of our own border. Compassion breaks down under the stress of needed sacrifice.
There are harsh realities that were described by Thomas Malthus two centuries ago, yet no one knew exactly how the crisis would be manifested, what form too many people with too few resources would take.
Now we see a pattern:
Denial: Wealthy governments pass laws based on compassion. "We accept all refugees" says the UN compact.
Awareness: The vulnerable citizens of countries reject this competition, and a few articulate their fear, anger and rejection of such refugees. It starts to be a political movement.
Justification: "It's their own fault for not creating a more ordered society," more compassionate dictators that they would not have to rebel against. (The thoughts expressed by many comments here)
Nationalism, with associated xenophobic hostility gains political traction. Or else we change the subject, focus on trivia with at first feigned partisan "debates" and then...............
AlRodbell.com
There are harsh realities that were described by Thomas Malthus two centuries ago, yet no one knew exactly how the crisis would be manifested, what form too many people with too few resources would take.
Now we see a pattern:
Denial: Wealthy governments pass laws based on compassion. "We accept all refugees" says the UN compact.
Awareness: The vulnerable citizens of countries reject this competition, and a few articulate their fear, anger and rejection of such refugees. It starts to be a political movement.
Justification: "It's their own fault for not creating a more ordered society," more compassionate dictators that they would not have to rebel against. (The thoughts expressed by many comments here)
Nationalism, with associated xenophobic hostility gains political traction. Or else we change the subject, focus on trivia with at first feigned partisan "debates" and then...............
AlRodbell.com
7
The US is giving billions to these countries to 'assist' with human necessities. Obviously, the people are not receiving these billions - where is the money going?
Time to stop giving money to any of these countries. Instead, we need to provide the items that the money was intended for vs. the dollars.
I am somewhat befuddled by what the NYTImes and progressives want. They attack the US and claim it is the source of all tragedy and terrorism on one hand. Then they demand that we help those fleeing their violent countries. Then we're told that all would be good with the middle east if the US would just leave and let them be. Then we should arm the immigrants so they can fight the evil that has taken over their countries.
Just what do you guys want and how do you suppose we should get there?
Time to stop giving money to any of these countries. Instead, we need to provide the items that the money was intended for vs. the dollars.
I am somewhat befuddled by what the NYTImes and progressives want. They attack the US and claim it is the source of all tragedy and terrorism on one hand. Then they demand that we help those fleeing their violent countries. Then we're told that all would be good with the middle east if the US would just leave and let them be. Then we should arm the immigrants so they can fight the evil that has taken over their countries.
Just what do you guys want and how do you suppose we should get there?
3
How about a Social Security-style trust fund managed by a government alongside an NGO from a relatively non-corrupt country like Norway or Singapore funded by a 1/2 of 1% to 1% levy on the gross value of all military goods' sales and transfers? The fund would cover a range of costs such as funerals, shelter and other basic needs, education, training, logistics to settle and/or repatriate migrants/refugees etc.
Persons/populations would qualify for assistance if their death, injury or displacement resulted from use of weapons sold or provided by or originating in countries transacting arms' sales and transfers.
Obviously a lot of bureaucracy would have to be engaged to establish and maintain such a program but there's no shortage of governmental bureaucracy and meddling in the world. It could start as voluntary programs and later be codified into binding agreements for which non-compliance affects international treaties, trade accords and other protocols.
Global arms' trade is apparently under $100 billion annually but the trust fund could also be fed by levies on domestic arms' sales within originating countries. So, whatever the Pentagon and the like in other countries buy that are weapons could be included.
Just guessing but there's a potential for $10 billion annually for such a fund.
Persons/populations would qualify for assistance if their death, injury or displacement resulted from use of weapons sold or provided by or originating in countries transacting arms' sales and transfers.
Obviously a lot of bureaucracy would have to be engaged to establish and maintain such a program but there's no shortage of governmental bureaucracy and meddling in the world. It could start as voluntary programs and later be codified into binding agreements for which non-compliance affects international treaties, trade accords and other protocols.
Global arms' trade is apparently under $100 billion annually but the trust fund could also be fed by levies on domestic arms' sales within originating countries. So, whatever the Pentagon and the like in other countries buy that are weapons could be included.
Just guessing but there's a potential for $10 billion annually for such a fund.
4
There are simply not enough resources for Europe to take in all from the emptying African continent and the Near East. Other countries, namely, those in the Middle East who have the land mass, resources and shared culture and values of the immigrants, should take in the great majority of immigrants. While Jordan and Turkey do their parts, the Saudis, Kuwaitis, etc. do very little except pledge a few tens of millions, which they then don't bother to pay.
19
Remember that much of this disastrous situation was caused by the US warmongering Neocons in cooperation with the Saudis and other Middle Eastern states opposed to Assad and Iran. (By the way, under the influence of the Neocons and their lackeys, the US has chosen the wrong allies in the Middle East.)
Any real refugees (as opposed to phony, economic migrants) should be housed in Saudi Arabia and Israel or in camps in their own region. Europe needs to use its military forces to protect its territories and people from this perverse movement of obviously very well fed and well dressed Muslims and Africans into the West, who are trespassing into Europe (and the US) in hopes of living off the backs of Europeans. They are not true refugees.
Those perfidious, despicable European governments and officials who encourage this mass influx or who refuse to take serious action to stop it, should be individually and collectively held to account by their respective peoples and not only removed from office but also very severely punished.
In the face of such governmental ineptness and/or malign neglect, there is a huge role to be played by any courageous men, vigilantes, who can and will do what needs to be done to protect and restore Europe. Power to the People.
Any real refugees (as opposed to phony, economic migrants) should be housed in Saudi Arabia and Israel or in camps in their own region. Europe needs to use its military forces to protect its territories and people from this perverse movement of obviously very well fed and well dressed Muslims and Africans into the West, who are trespassing into Europe (and the US) in hopes of living off the backs of Europeans. They are not true refugees.
Those perfidious, despicable European governments and officials who encourage this mass influx or who refuse to take serious action to stop it, should be individually and collectively held to account by their respective peoples and not only removed from office but also very severely punished.
In the face of such governmental ineptness and/or malign neglect, there is a huge role to be played by any courageous men, vigilantes, who can and will do what needs to be done to protect and restore Europe. Power to the People.
8
I can understand the desire for finding a better place to live.
I can understand if someone is fed up with what he has and wants to make a better life.
I can also fully understand that if someone is in immediate danger that this person wants to flee.
According to the UNHCR, once the immediate danger is over, either by having fled to another part of the country in which persecution is over or to a neighbouring country a refugee becomes a mere migrant.
And for migrants there are rules and laws that apply.
These people are migrants and, based on their illegal way of crossing borders, illegal migrants.
They need to be treated accordingly.
Of course that also means that the receiving country formally has to decide who is a real refugee and who is a migrant and/or an illegal migrant.
Once a person is classified as a real refugee this person will be welcomed with open arms as it is a matter of being a civilized human being to help such real refugees.
But as for all others, and those are the overwhelming majority, only the rules for migrants apply.
And that means that if they crossed into Europe/the EU, they will have to be repatriated and/or jailed for illegal border crossing.
Taking these simple and existing rules and the existing laws serious would help those real refugees and would free more than sufficient funds for real refugees.
A Somali, an Afghan, a Nigerian and so many others simply cannot be real refugees in the EU, only migrants.
For which other rules apply.
I can understand if someone is fed up with what he has and wants to make a better life.
I can also fully understand that if someone is in immediate danger that this person wants to flee.
According to the UNHCR, once the immediate danger is over, either by having fled to another part of the country in which persecution is over or to a neighbouring country a refugee becomes a mere migrant.
And for migrants there are rules and laws that apply.
These people are migrants and, based on their illegal way of crossing borders, illegal migrants.
They need to be treated accordingly.
Of course that also means that the receiving country formally has to decide who is a real refugee and who is a migrant and/or an illegal migrant.
Once a person is classified as a real refugee this person will be welcomed with open arms as it is a matter of being a civilized human being to help such real refugees.
But as for all others, and those are the overwhelming majority, only the rules for migrants apply.
And that means that if they crossed into Europe/the EU, they will have to be repatriated and/or jailed for illegal border crossing.
Taking these simple and existing rules and the existing laws serious would help those real refugees and would free more than sufficient funds for real refugees.
A Somali, an Afghan, a Nigerian and so many others simply cannot be real refugees in the EU, only migrants.
For which other rules apply.
16
The whole world has figured out what to say, how to lie, in order to manipulate the overly generous refugee laws of the West and the extremely naive and brainwashed Western peoples. They are simply taking advantage of the softness and stupidity (and malignancy) of Western governments. Therefore, the laws must change and asylum seeking must be completely shut down. Any true refugees can flee to neighboring areas or countries as you suggest and as, in fact, required by international law. The West must completely end the granting of asylum and the Refugee Industrial Complex. We have been suckers and every time we give an inch, they take a mile or a hundred miles. It must stop. People need to build their own countries, not mooch off of others.
7
Couldn't just one of our millionaires charter a plane to airlift some of these people to the U.S.? Couldn't our government make it happen? Yes but o I forgot, there may be "rapists" among them. This horrible, horrible. And we stand by, perhaps feeling lucky, since we can't even deal with one, longstanding migration from the south.
3
We have no water left in California, and already have 4-5 million illegal immigrants. The other 49 states are clearly and hypocritically not as keen to share the burden of taking in even 500 immigrants much less millions of them, and until they do, I have to disagree with your proposal. We in California should not have to bear the nation's burden of providing for new immigrants on the backs of state taxpayers.
12
Of course California shouldn't have to do it alone. A national policy (beyond a wall) would be helpful. Why are we such a selfish, mean nation, I wonder.
2
It is terribly sad that the international defense system laid out in the book "True Freedom - The Road to the First Real Democracy" has not been adopted by every nation in this world which wants to avoid the costs of war which include both the military side as well as the people movement side. This trend is not supportable by any nation or group of nations as their own people will go only so far before they turn their backs, as well as pocketbooks, on this very sad issue. Until we first work together to eliminate the illegal movement of people we cannot deal with the real basis for this issue and that is the overpopulation of this planet. This may be sad but it is true so wake up world and begin to end the not wanted movement of people throughout this world.
2
The mantra of the globalists and corporate elite, who have infiltrated every Western government, is that we must ensure "the free movement of capital, goods and people" across all borders. Their agenda is destroying the world.
3
I am pale with dismay at the stunning callousness and indifference of the most popular comments of this story. It's ironic that the poor greek people who are ground zero for the migrant boats and who have the most right to complain are mostly kind when with their mourning, broken, PTSD-ridden brothers and sisters come crying to their shores.
They have to witness and hear the personal tales of death, mutilation, horror of these refugees who risked their lives to save their innocent children away from the horrors of war and they are kind. The pastor said what needed to be said at the end. "I realized there are no borders".
But "No!", I hear, "how DARE That brown riff-raff go around "musliming" Europe and sharia'ing all over the place?!", I hear. "Why don't the rich arabs take them!" they say, ignoring the fact that:
1- Behaving like the people you despise is not a good idea. Are you really going to look at the Saudis, Qatar, Bahrein, Koweit and the UAE for examples on how we should treat other humans?
2- Many arab nations poorer than the EU or the USA (Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey to name just a few) take an enormous share of this burden. You can hurl many accusations at the arab countries, but lack of hospitality is not one of them. They have put us, the western world to shame in this matter.
I may not be christian but no one can dispute that he spoke the word of God when he said "Love thy neighbor".
I hope we will all follow this advice.
They have to witness and hear the personal tales of death, mutilation, horror of these refugees who risked their lives to save their innocent children away from the horrors of war and they are kind. The pastor said what needed to be said at the end. "I realized there are no borders".
But "No!", I hear, "how DARE That brown riff-raff go around "musliming" Europe and sharia'ing all over the place?!", I hear. "Why don't the rich arabs take them!" they say, ignoring the fact that:
1- Behaving like the people you despise is not a good idea. Are you really going to look at the Saudis, Qatar, Bahrein, Koweit and the UAE for examples on how we should treat other humans?
2- Many arab nations poorer than the EU or the USA (Lebanon, Jordan, Turkey to name just a few) take an enormous share of this burden. You can hurl many accusations at the arab countries, but lack of hospitality is not one of them. They have put us, the western world to shame in this matter.
I may not be christian but no one can dispute that he spoke the word of God when he said "Love thy neighbor".
I hope we will all follow this advice.
13
You ignore the fact that the US provides the great majority of the budget to care for displaced Syrians in Jordan. At last count, our aid topped $2 billion. Clearly, the US assists anyone of any color and of any faith, despite that many of these immigrants come from countries that cheered on 9/11. That is loving thy neighbor.
8
Inside the borders of western European nations you have a community of people that value democratic government, gender equity, the separation of church and state, civil liberties and maintain certain notions of fairness, social and economic justice. The societies in these nations have evolved over hundreds of years to expand their notions of human progress and we all have an interest in having that process continue.
Allowing hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants that find western notions of civil liberties repugnant, who reject the western world's separation of church and state, who hold repressive religious views that reject any notion of gender equality, that preach violence against gay and trans-gender individuals, to flood into Europe risks triggering massive civil, economic, and social disruption in European nations.
Many of these migrants are not "your huddled masses yearning" for freedom rather these masses bring a repressive agenda that unravels western values and hard fought individual rights.
Securing European borders is essential to protect the values, freedoms and individual rights established there and ensure that human progress that evolved over the last 200 years continue. All western nations not only have a shared interest in secured borders, but they also have a moral responsibility to its citizens and future generations to help enforce all national borders. That demonstrates real "love [for] thy neighbor" and for future generations.
Allowing hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants that find western notions of civil liberties repugnant, who reject the western world's separation of church and state, who hold repressive religious views that reject any notion of gender equality, that preach violence against gay and trans-gender individuals, to flood into Europe risks triggering massive civil, economic, and social disruption in European nations.
Many of these migrants are not "your huddled masses yearning" for freedom rather these masses bring a repressive agenda that unravels western values and hard fought individual rights.
Securing European borders is essential to protect the values, freedoms and individual rights established there and ensure that human progress that evolved over the last 200 years continue. All western nations not only have a shared interest in secured borders, but they also have a moral responsibility to its citizens and future generations to help enforce all national borders. That demonstrates real "love [for] thy neighbor" and for future generations.
12
I am not sure your characterization of the migrants is correct. There must be a way to help people.
For centuries many Islamic nations have encouraged multiple wives, 9 year old wives, and no programs for allowing a family to regulate their pregnancies.
Once settled in Europe these refugees will serve as a fountain of children to one day grow to hate their new homes in Europe and strike out against innocent civilians, who practice a lesser faith than that of Islam.
Europe needs to help nations on the front line of this massive invasion of undocumented people, return them to their former homes, where they are able to worship Allah in their own faith.
Once settled in Europe these refugees will serve as a fountain of children to one day grow to hate their new homes in Europe and strike out against innocent civilians, who practice a lesser faith than that of Islam.
Europe needs to help nations on the front line of this massive invasion of undocumented people, return them to their former homes, where they are able to worship Allah in their own faith.
23
After viewing Let's Make Money (2008), I feel that the elite in western nations are partially responsible for the world conflict we are now in along with the corrupt regimes in the Middle East and Africa. One of the refugees in the article commented that she had never had to worry about money before. In our own declining democracy, this could be any of us in the coming future. If I put my spare cash where my mouth is, I will contact that Greek restaurant owner through her restaurant FaceBook page and better yet--interdenominational churches everywhere could spread the word throughout their communities, reminding those in the US that their charitable donations are tax deductible if they itemize, rather than taking the standard deduction.
3
Hardly a surprise there is little help for people or migrants in Greece. But it is nice to see EU money being put to good use in Greece on a fall election, the result of which is likely to be ignored again by the government. Exports, growth and migrants are hardly the main focus of the Greek government at this time.
Greece is in receivership, and in a restructuring people and growth don't matter. Career ambitions of the elite are what matter. Leadership is seldom found in finance. Corruption is what is mostly found in financial leaders.
Greece is in receivership, and in a restructuring people and growth don't matter. Career ambitions of the elite are what matter. Leadership is seldom found in finance. Corruption is what is mostly found in financial leaders.
5
Echoing an earlier comment on the presence of so many Syrian males of military age in these migrant groups. Why aren't they being detained for intelligence purposes? Might they not be conscripted into military service in return for re-settlement in Europe? With over 2mm Syrians on the run, there must be at least 10 percent of them able bodied individuals who would be quite a force to reckon with if properly trained and armed. Confronting these individuals with such an option will also ferret out their core motivations. Merely pursuing a "better financial future" or "escaping tyranny" without the motivation to fight for the right to pursue that future or resist that tyranny makes for very poor citizenship in any nation.
7
With all due respect to the suffering and the tragedy, the truth of the matter is until the governments of the countries from which these humans are fleeing are held to account for their violence and brutality nothing will change. Violent extremists and theocratic dictators are given a pass ..it's all the West's fault!
As the flood continues the West will be destroyed. There will be no safe harbor for anyone.
As the flood continues the West will be destroyed. There will be no safe harbor for anyone.
11
Rosh A, a "32-year-old Syrian teacher" from "the outskirts of Damascus" arrived in Lebos with "her two children and three friends". They must have paid the smugglers $7,200 - $1,200 for each place on the boat. On top of this amount, they also paid for "flying to Beirut, and to Istanbul". This could sum up to $10,000, and there was no guarantee that they would survive the trip. That they chose to stay neither in Lebanon nor in Turkey, shows how hopeless the refugee crisis is in the region.
10
Europe, especially the past 100 years, has shown its incompetence in handling disasters. These illegal immigrants know this by now so will continue their resettlement efforts. This is a very serious issue, more serious actually than the fighting in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and should be straightened out by Middle Eastern countries themselves as quickly as possible. Same obviously goes for migrants from Africa. The US also should be involved in solving this disaster - once again, Europe does not have the character strength or experience on how to handle this.
1
Assad must be stopped, and the only two nations that can do something about this are Russia and Iran.
1
The migrants should be fitted with arms and go back to their country, organize and take their country back.
6
There are 107,000 illegal immigrants in 7 monthe, with more coming each day. Looking at the photos, it appears that conservatively, 80% are young able men.
Why don't they band together and fight against those from whom they flee?? An army of 80,000 is massive and could accomplish a lot, even as a gurellia force.!
Are they all cowards, just greedy to take what the 'evil' west have built?
Why do they no 'migrate' to the East, toward India or China??????
Why don't they band together and fight against those from whom they flee?? An army of 80,000 is massive and could accomplish a lot, even as a gurellia force.!
Are they all cowards, just greedy to take what the 'evil' west have built?
Why do they no 'migrate' to the East, toward India or China??????
12
To all those terrified of what the potential effect will be of "so many" Muslims coming to Europe:
1. 10% of Syrians are actually Christian
2. Millions upon millions of Turkish people moved to Germany and North African people moved to France after world war two, as guest workers or equivalent. Muslim migration to Europe is nothing new.
3. In fact, "Muslims in Europe" has been a thing for the last 1,200 years, and at times, were the enlightening influence, not the other way around.
4. In fact, a Muslim ruler, Ali Pasha of Ioanina (friend of Lord Byron), oversaw the 19th century era of the Greek Enlightenment that spurred the Greek independence movement.
I could go on and on. There is no excuse for blatant bigotry and xenophobia in Europe against Muslims. Anyone espousing it is just ignorant.
1. 10% of Syrians are actually Christian
2. Millions upon millions of Turkish people moved to Germany and North African people moved to France after world war two, as guest workers or equivalent. Muslim migration to Europe is nothing new.
3. In fact, "Muslims in Europe" has been a thing for the last 1,200 years, and at times, were the enlightening influence, not the other way around.
4. In fact, a Muslim ruler, Ali Pasha of Ioanina (friend of Lord Byron), oversaw the 19th century era of the Greek Enlightenment that spurred the Greek independence movement.
I could go on and on. There is no excuse for blatant bigotry and xenophobia in Europe against Muslims. Anyone espousing it is just ignorant.
2
Well Jane, by cherry-picking your data, you've made the the case for YOUR blatantly bigoted and zeno-philic case. But you conveniently leave out the lack or job opportunities, lack of assimilation, high birth rates and generous welfare and benefits packages and rights that these people get when they arrive and stay in European countries.
It's not just about the Muslims themselves that bothers people of good will and that have valid concerns about this "migration." It's the amount of people and the frequency of arrivals. It's become an invasion. The fact that countries have the responsibility and right to determine who enters their borders is not bigotry or xenophobia.
By the way, why don't OTHER MUSLIM NATIONS want to take in their brothers? Oh wait, they must be blatantly bigoted, xenophobic and ignorant against Muslims too?
It's not just about the Muslims themselves that bothers people of good will and that have valid concerns about this "migration." It's the amount of people and the frequency of arrivals. It's become an invasion. The fact that countries have the responsibility and right to determine who enters their borders is not bigotry or xenophobia.
By the way, why don't OTHER MUSLIM NATIONS want to take in their brothers? Oh wait, they must be blatantly bigoted, xenophobic and ignorant against Muslims too?
11
It is shameful that the US has taken in only a few hundred refugees from the disasters caused by multiple American and/or Israeli invasions of the region and propping up of dictators and "royal families". Contrast this with Turkey which shelters over 2 million refugees, the Scandinavian countries who have been incredibly generous along with Germany, and even Italy and Greece who are facing serious economic crisis. By contrast, the Anglo-Saxon countries including US sidekicks Britain, Australia, and Canada which have been so eagerly invading the Middle East since the end of WWII, are the most reluctant to ameliorate the mess they created. This clearly reveals the militarism and racism at the heart of these political cultures which has yet to be overcome by a very diverse citizenry.
3
Allowing hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants that find western notions of civil liberties repugnant, who reject the western world's separation of church and state, who hold repressive religious views that reject any notion of gender equality, that preach violence against gay and trans-gender individuals, to flood into Europe risks triggering massive civil, economic, and social disruption in western Europe. These migrants are not "your huddled masses yearning" for freedom rather these masses bring a repressive agenda that unravels western values and hard fought individual rights. Those that charge someone a racist for supporting policies that aim to stop this chaotic flood and the deportation of those that illegally entered into western Europe simple reveals their ignorance of the situation. A kind and enlighten solution to these circumstances: Stop the chaotic flood of migrants and the illegal migrants that entered Europe must be housed and fed until the can be safely returned to their countries of origin.
9
Greece, which was always a poorer country, is now being overrun by migrants who need services in the interim, so they can go on to other, more prosperous, and get social welfare and/or jobs, many to Britain or Germany or Sweden.
How about interviewing a Greek person on an island who has endured 5 years of austerity, has had their pension cut by 30-50%, their salaries cut by 30% and the cost of living has increased as well? What would their view of this invasion be? Those tourists - they are the income for the year for a number of people on that island. And for some islands, like Kos, that are overrun by migrants, the tourists may not come back.
I wonder, and still hope that articles like this, that are endlessly pushed by the media that present mostly only one side will soon incorporate the consequences of these "migrations." The migrants are like locusts that will consume whatever field they land upon. Stopping this migration is the only answer.
How about interviewing a Greek person on an island who has endured 5 years of austerity, has had their pension cut by 30-50%, their salaries cut by 30% and the cost of living has increased as well? What would their view of this invasion be? Those tourists - they are the income for the year for a number of people on that island. And for some islands, like Kos, that are overrun by migrants, the tourists may not come back.
I wonder, and still hope that articles like this, that are endlessly pushed by the media that present mostly only one side will soon incorporate the consequences of these "migrations." The migrants are like locusts that will consume whatever field they land upon. Stopping this migration is the only answer.
8
The fact that the article talks about refugees leaving a county with an Islamic government where there is no civil war (Turkey) and migrating to a country with a Christian government (Greece or Italy too) seems significant to me. As much as it goes against the PC wisdom of the Times, Islamic communities have not assimilated very well into Christian European communities. The reverse also appears to be true that Christian or especially Jewish communities (Israel being the obvious example) are not safe in most Arab/African Islamic areas these days.
Doesn't it make sense to provide humanitarian aid to these mostly very deserving and needing human beings while keeping them in the Islamic culture that is their heritage?
Perhaps if the Saudis spent half as much money on helping fellow Islamic believers as they do on weapons and Wahhabi schools that preach hatred and constant jihad, we would not have a "European" crisis.
Doesn't it make sense to provide humanitarian aid to these mostly very deserving and needing human beings while keeping them in the Islamic culture that is their heritage?
Perhaps if the Saudis spent half as much money on helping fellow Islamic believers as they do on weapons and Wahhabi schools that preach hatred and constant jihad, we would not have a "European" crisis.
22
These migrants do NOT appear hungry or beshevelled, their attire is modern and in good order. It is obvious that as they insist on heading for Britain that it's an economic agenda. The word is out SOFT TOUCH Britain
(I am a citizen of uk btw) Free hotels, meals and money.....is the reason WHY these freeloaders are all aiming to try and force their way into the uk !
When the rest of us travel we have to produce passports and clear immigration and customs, but these derelicts think they can just get into rickety boats and land anywhere they please.
Every country MUST control it's immigration and has the right legally and morally to decide WHO can enter in order to protect it's own citizens and infrastructure,etc. This is WHY these refugees MUST be aprehended and deported BEFORE they can establish footholds in Europe or the whole continent risks being OVER RUN by unwanted, uninvited and unwelcome losers. IT is tantamount to a neighbor demanding to enter another neighbor's
property and receive free lodging and keep because of their financial or political problems. The West cannot absorb the World's dilemmas we have enough of our own !
(I am a citizen of uk btw) Free hotels, meals and money.....is the reason WHY these freeloaders are all aiming to try and force their way into the uk !
When the rest of us travel we have to produce passports and clear immigration and customs, but these derelicts think they can just get into rickety boats and land anywhere they please.
Every country MUST control it's immigration and has the right legally and morally to decide WHO can enter in order to protect it's own citizens and infrastructure,etc. This is WHY these refugees MUST be aprehended and deported BEFORE they can establish footholds in Europe or the whole continent risks being OVER RUN by unwanted, uninvited and unwelcome losers. IT is tantamount to a neighbor demanding to enter another neighbor's
property and receive free lodging and keep because of their financial or political problems. The West cannot absorb the World's dilemmas we have enough of our own !
19
Where is the IOM to help manage the refugee situation there, isn't this part of their mandate?
2
This will not stop even if there peace and prosperity in Africa or Middle-East. The truth of the matter is that youth in all non-white nations is now highly educated and aspire for a better standard of living like their Western counterparts. This is the reason why even Billionaires from China and India are migrating to the West. Third World is now simply unlivable and anybody and everybody with an option is flying out. West is a victim of its own success. The only possible solution is to make West very unattractive by any means.
9
Poor Greece. Impoverished and humiliated by Germany. Banks in bad shape. People unable to get their medicine or buy food to eat and yet the EU thinks the Greeks should take care of an invasion of Illegal aliens. I am sorry - regardless of what the EU says, I would not care for them over Greek citizens. If anything I would try and push the boat back to Turkey. But I would not spend a penny on them over aid to Greek CItizens.
If the EU wants them cared for than I suggest that they send money from Germany or better yet send the Germans over with the duty do care for these migrants. After all they have stripped the money out of the country closed their banks -
Lesbos is a Germany responsibility so it should be German money and German personnel who should deal with it..
Where possible the boats should be pushed back to Turkey to avoid burdening the Greek People.
Perhaps there is an uninhabited Island which could be rented to the EU to use as a detention center for illegal aliens - rather like Australian does.
In any case they should not be allowed on mainland Greece.
If the EU wants them cared for than I suggest that they send money from Germany or better yet send the Germans over with the duty do care for these migrants. After all they have stripped the money out of the country closed their banks -
Lesbos is a Germany responsibility so it should be German money and German personnel who should deal with it..
Where possible the boats should be pushed back to Turkey to avoid burdening the Greek People.
Perhaps there is an uninhabited Island which could be rented to the EU to use as a detention center for illegal aliens - rather like Australian does.
In any case they should not be allowed on mainland Greece.
8
"I suggest that they send money from Germany"
The article says that these refugees pay for their tickets from Lesbos to the Greek mainland with their own money. Some of them have flown to Turkey. So they might well be a positive contribution for the Greek GDP. But what's more important: 50% of the refugees which arrive in the EU ultimately travel to Germany or Sweden. If you accuse the Germans, you are missing the point.
The article says that these refugees pay for their tickets from Lesbos to the Greek mainland with their own money. Some of them have flown to Turkey. So they might well be a positive contribution for the Greek GDP. But what's more important: 50% of the refugees which arrive in the EU ultimately travel to Germany or Sweden. If you accuse the Germans, you are missing the point.
4
The girl with the red bow in her hair helped ashore by the strong arms of a man we know only as a "migrant." Somewhere, someone else helped tie that bow so she would be beautiful in those moments of panic when her overcrowded liferaft was took on water as it drifted ashore.
She could have been my little girl. In my morning reverie I imagined Pres Obama inviting John Kerry to come over for coffee, to brainstorm a solution. Greece, already overwhelmed, needs more help, but from whence will it come? From the top of Mt. Financier? Probably not--too busy lecturing on the merits of making do with less!
The Girl with a Red Bow is the daughter of everyone. Hers is the face of millions of children cast adrift from lands sucked dry by never-ending exploitation, the greed of oligarchs worshipping at the altar of More, by the cynical manipulation of false prophets preaching in the name of The Prophet or The Saviour. In Cleveland we wait to stare at a clown dressed as the Fool not yet parted from his money who would leads us...where?
A world gone mad, while men with strong arms wade into the water to rescue a girl with a red bow.
She could have been my little girl. In my morning reverie I imagined Pres Obama inviting John Kerry to come over for coffee, to brainstorm a solution. Greece, already overwhelmed, needs more help, but from whence will it come? From the top of Mt. Financier? Probably not--too busy lecturing on the merits of making do with less!
The Girl with a Red Bow is the daughter of everyone. Hers is the face of millions of children cast adrift from lands sucked dry by never-ending exploitation, the greed of oligarchs worshipping at the altar of More, by the cynical manipulation of false prophets preaching in the name of The Prophet or The Saviour. In Cleveland we wait to stare at a clown dressed as the Fool not yet parted from his money who would leads us...where?
A world gone mad, while men with strong arms wade into the water to rescue a girl with a red bow.
10
I asked a Greek-American living here in Hawaii if he were being asked for money from his relatives in Greece. He rolled his eyes, "All the time!" he said.
Come on, NYT, there's an interesting story here. How much are Greek-Americans and other Greeks around the world (think, Australia) contributing to their friends and relatives in the mother country during this crisis, and to what degree is this helping?
Come on, NYT, there's an interesting story here. How much are Greek-Americans and other Greeks around the world (think, Australia) contributing to their friends and relatives in the mother country during this crisis, and to what degree is this helping?
3
This is MRS. Both my husband's family and my own family sent $$ as well as clothing back to the old country on a regular basis. It immediately helps our own family make it through the immediate crisis--in our case, post WWII and the rebuilding of European nations. Today, we no longer need to do that and we are grateful that we were able to help our families when they needed most. Any help received by one lets the government help another who has not.
1
The situation in Syria and much of the the rest of the Middle East reminds me of the Thirty Years' War of 1618-48, when Protestants and Catholics decimated Europe over their differences. The Middle East is awash in Islamic and Jewish male zealots willing to reduce their lands to rubble over ancient grudges and atavistic religious schisms. If they keep at it, they'll make the entire Middle East a battlefield. And there is no chance elected governments in Europe, Australia, and the United States will undertake the burden of resettling the women, children and men sane enough to flee the carnage.
6
IIegal immigrants entering Europe must be aligned and fed Until this mess that exists in the world is resolved
I'm curious why so many of these migrants are young men who appear to be in their 20's and 30's. (The migrants in Calais for example are mostly young men) In other words, the most able-bodied of the population.
It seems a disproportionate demographic. If the situation is so grave in their home country where are the middle aged, the elderly, the parents, and more women?
I've seen reports on television here in France that show many of these migrants phoning back "home." They are speaking to parents and grandparents. Are they waiting to establish a foothold in Europe to then ask that their extended families be allowed in Europe as well?
It seems a disproportionate demographic. If the situation is so grave in their home country where are the middle aged, the elderly, the parents, and more women?
I've seen reports on television here in France that show many of these migrants phoning back "home." They are speaking to parents and grandparents. Are they waiting to establish a foothold in Europe to then ask that their extended families be allowed in Europe as well?
15
Absolutely.. Rather than stay at home and be part of the solution they leave and allow the rest of their people to languish and die.
2
This is MRS. That is the pathway many migrants take -- the able bodied man goes to stake himself and then brings the family. Sometimes, the family is not brought, but not often. This is how many immigrants came to the US during the great immigration waves from the mid-1800s through the 1920s. Some returned to their homelands, but most stayed and off their backs built this nation and served in its armed forces.
Yes they are waiting to establish a foothold in Europe. They are, some experts on migration suggest, not "fleeing" but "going to." They have plans.
2
Where are the international relief agencies? All the people from the middle east need to be resettled where they can get food and education and jobs and become productive members of society. So that ISIS does not infiltrate our societies thru masses of hungry and angry refugees.
Anyone who has not read Jean Raspail's prescient CAMP of THE SAINTS, must do so now. He foresaw long ago how western civilization was preparing itself for collapse.
3
Not until the problem will be resolved at the core level then this crisis is bound to go on for a very long time, I'm afraid. True, migrations have been taking place ever since people found out they were able to move around, but this one has a particular political connotation, in that it is curiously concomitant with a resurgence of the European far-right that is riding the wave of pervasive popular discontent. This crisis has been the brainchild of international organized crime's unspeakable pacts among neo-nazis, neo-fascists, Italian and international mob syndicate, to destabilize Europe's governments with a burden that is creating a geopolitical mayhem never before seen; and politicians in Europe are in the main putting on a shockingly pass-the-bucket spectacle and are dragging their feet in a direction that won't lead anywhere, other than breeding even more discontent to the breaking point.
1
"...riding the wave of pervasive popular discontent..." "populist" that is. Sorry.
Maybe Greece should be more welcoming instead of acting as a waystation for these refugees. These Syrians are obviously an intrepid people risking extreme danger to seek a better life. Just what Greece needs to counter a nation filled with a population that counts for unchallenged sustenence from the government.
The government ought to turn them loose and let capitalism run rampant - freed from the stiffling Greek bureaucracy and socialism that has killed the Greek economy and opportunity.
The government ought to turn them loose and let capitalism run rampant - freed from the stiffling Greek bureaucracy and socialism that has killed the Greek economy and opportunity.
I can guarantee you that no foreseeable Greek government (of any party) is going to let capitalism run rampant. The ruling class are both the product and the beneficiaries of the corrupt system that feeds them, and they will guard it till their last breath.
2
Enough of refugees. We feel their pain, and we know their suffering, but the tens of thousands from the MIddle East and Africa are only a drop in the bucket compared to the tens or hundreds of millions who will be generated in the decades to come by climate change and who will swamp our societies and economies unless we harden our hearts and our enforcement mechanisms now to keep them out. The international refugee asylum regime worked well when limited to specifically political refugees. But now that it has been expanded to include entire ethnic categories, and beyond that we face enormous numbers of displaced persons, the capacity of Western societies to provide a lifeboat for the misdeeds or misfortunes of the Third World is nearing its limit. We need to erect a firm wall, heartless though it may seem, because it is time to enact policies which may not be pretty, but are essential to our own social stability.
10
Over 7 billion dollars has been spent, in Syria, Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon, between 2012 and 2015, on food, housing and healthcare for refugees. Who is actually receiving these funds, and what are they doing with them? People are still fleeing, and I have a sense that they have never received the care that the EU and the US have paid for.
8
We just returned from Lampedusa where we visited Askavusa Collettivo (Barefoot Collective) and Mediterranean Hope, the NGOs observing the Italian government's system of dealing with refugees. According to the directors of these two agencies most refugees want to go to norther Europe. Italy and Greece are only the entry points to Europe. Italy is doing a good job handling this problem and apparently Greece is not. So where is the European 'Union' when Greece needs help. Perhaps the EU is it a 'union' of finance and not human beings.
2
The thousands of migrants from the war ravaged Syria, Afghanistan, or the countries under dictatorial rule resorting to persecution and ethnic cleansing, or the people fleeing their countries in search of better opportunities, however elusive these might be, do really pose a challenge to the countries they are arriving in. As such, the problem of immigration has assumed global proportions, and warrants serious attention and way out at the UN and international level. It would be callous to leave it to Europe or other parts of it like Greece to handle the humanitarian problem of this magnitude by themselves, specially the EU and many European countries themselves are reeling under prolonged economic and financial crises.
8
One of my complaints about the American left and even the European left is that somehow we cannot have a sober left. You have the left here sulking and crying over these immigrants. This left wants to tell you in PC terms what to think, what to say, and will shame you if you don't. An open heart to those who would cut our throats by saying, "BUT NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE THAT WAY!"
And they're right: not all are that way. Just enough of them to wreak havoc.
I don't want to see these immigrants suffer. But they are bound to, and we are not obliged to endanger our Enlightenment for their sake.
Then we have the right that wants to limit or keep out these immigrants, whether here or in Europe. But we all know the toxic manure that comes with the right.
What to do?
A non PC, sober left.
Tolerance is a virtue until tolerance tolerates people who will cut its throat.
And they're right: not all are that way. Just enough of them to wreak havoc.
I don't want to see these immigrants suffer. But they are bound to, and we are not obliged to endanger our Enlightenment for their sake.
Then we have the right that wants to limit or keep out these immigrants, whether here or in Europe. But we all know the toxic manure that comes with the right.
What to do?
A non PC, sober left.
Tolerance is a virtue until tolerance tolerates people who will cut its throat.
5
Jean Raspail's 1973 novel "Camp of the Saints" predicted that this would be how Europe ended:
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/politics/immigrat/kennf.htm
http://www.theatlantic.com/past/politics/immigrat/kennf.htm
1
The Greek Army is present in strength in the islands off the Turkish coast. Ferrying refugees to reception centers, setting up tent cities and field kitchens, providing medical sentence, fixing toilets, collecting trash, etc, would finally give them something worthwhile to do.
Commentators did you see the photo and notice anything, more than 80% of the refugees are men, not women and children. Why is that?
5
Syrians arrive via Turkey which is a muslim nation,looks like they don't want them or the migrants prefer western countries.The saudis,qataris and others do not take migrants especially not the Africans who they look down upon.So much for ummah(muslim brotherhood).
7
In the background of this new immigration wave we find the so called Arab spring, which western powers helped deliver, in Libya with bombs. Historically we had usually supported the former dictators, which makes us accomplices of the present turbulence. We didn't care for freedom and democracy in these countries before, and when people freed themselves we abandoned them.
Another source of the present immigration deluge is the whole Middle East, set on fire by us. Who are we to condemn or disparage the immigrants in any way?
Another source of the present immigration deluge is the whole Middle East, set on fire by us. Who are we to condemn or disparage the immigrants in any way?
3
I can condemn their invasion. It's a ridiculous thing to assume that anyone has the right to invade another country. This is an attack on these sovereign nations. Move these migrants back to their homelands, and quick.
Springtime for Merkel and Germany, winter for Syria and Greece.
3
I feel for these people, but in what way are they refugees? They are coming from Turkey, a stable Muslim state, and should be returned there. The flood of migrants is going to result in far right parties winning throughout Europe. It's just too much.
8
Ask yourself; why are these people fleeing the countries in which they were born? For the most part, they are escaping violence which has destroyed their homes, their livelihoods, and destroyed thousands of their compatriots. Intervention by the United States (with its NATO allies) has upset the political order in these countries, and armaments streaming into their countries from the arms merchants in the U.S. and Europe, have made violence on this scale possible. It seems to me that the U.S., the UK, France, Russia, and other countries that have engineered these interventions and profited from these arms sales, should be taking in these refugees. Let's be more specific; homes should be prepared for them in places such as Wyoming and Texas so that the people who elevated the likes of Cheney and Bush might realize the true legacy of their greed, arrogance, and ignorance.
3
Cheney and Bush won't suffer. It's the poor in the US who will suffer.
People in the ME have to take responsibility for righting their own ship.
People in the ME have to take responsibility for righting their own ship.
1
This massive destabilization of the Middle East, of which the refugee crisis is but one facet, can be laid squarely at the door of the United States. One country cannot cause so much trouble in the world without repercussions.
2
That's an awfully convenient excuse. The massive destabilization may also be caused by a culture that refuses to take responsibility for anything wrong in their countries, rampant and endemic violence, and backwards thinking.
3
The refugee situation is like a leak from the upstairs apartment that is handled by mopping it up or putting a couple of boards down. The problem will remain until the leak is fixed. If we do not want to undertake the trouble and expense of getting someone to fix the leak, we will suffer the cumulative results of the leak.
Most of the world is not yet to the point where refugees will be kept from landing even when they are drowning. But if we cannot get the Mideast to live at peace with itself, we will get there, country by country, and we will learn to feel OK about corpses floating ashore, generally because we have found a way to demonize the refugees.
Most of the world is not yet to the point where refugees will be kept from landing even when they are drowning. But if we cannot get the Mideast to live at peace with itself, we will get there, country by country, and we will learn to feel OK about corpses floating ashore, generally because we have found a way to demonize the refugees.
11
Germany is full. Just got some data.
from 2000 till 2010 we had never more than 30.000 asylum seekers.
When the numbers rised, we realized our system will collapse at 100.000. So we started building "guest-houses" all over the country, 800 Houses, which should be able to shelter up to 500.000 refugees. Some got burned down.
Now we have reached 700.000 asylum seeker (for comparison, US got 260.000). And till the end of year we expect them to be 900.000, 30 times of what we got before 2010.
Every immigrant costs 12.000Euro ($10.000?) a month, we got yearly additional expenses of 5 Billion Euro this year alone.
We are rehiring retired teachers and police-officers (5000), we ramp up our bureaucracies (800, all former pensionaries), we are relying on volunteers, we are engaging asylum seeker, who hardly know our language or our laws.
But we have simply to recognize, we have reached our limits, we are in a crisis. And the world have to accept, that you will see things in europe, you haven't imagine to happen since WW2. And the world have to accept, that this is not evil or opposition, this is desperation.
Ee have done much more than the US ever did, a million refugees in a country of 80 million, this is like an additional 2% unemployment, except, these people got nothing.
So if columnist like Roger Cohen yesterday lash out at an europe without ideas. Just take yourself a minute and go through the data, because this is not something you can moralize about.
from 2000 till 2010 we had never more than 30.000 asylum seekers.
When the numbers rised, we realized our system will collapse at 100.000. So we started building "guest-houses" all over the country, 800 Houses, which should be able to shelter up to 500.000 refugees. Some got burned down.
Now we have reached 700.000 asylum seeker (for comparison, US got 260.000). And till the end of year we expect them to be 900.000, 30 times of what we got before 2010.
Every immigrant costs 12.000Euro ($10.000?) a month, we got yearly additional expenses of 5 Billion Euro this year alone.
We are rehiring retired teachers and police-officers (5000), we ramp up our bureaucracies (800, all former pensionaries), we are relying on volunteers, we are engaging asylum seeker, who hardly know our language or our laws.
But we have simply to recognize, we have reached our limits, we are in a crisis. And the world have to accept, that you will see things in europe, you haven't imagine to happen since WW2. And the world have to accept, that this is not evil or opposition, this is desperation.
Ee have done much more than the US ever did, a million refugees in a country of 80 million, this is like an additional 2% unemployment, except, these people got nothing.
So if columnist like Roger Cohen yesterday lash out at an europe without ideas. Just take yourself a minute and go through the data, because this is not something you can moralize about.
55
The world needs to accept that imaginary animals like "national borders" do not exist, especially when living beings are in need of shelter and nourishment.
Germany will get much fuller. The numbers of asylum seekers are incorrect because they omit the expected arrivals of wives and children who were left behind. Syrian men in Dortmund are protesting because they want the German government to admit their families more quickly. Even if newly-arrived Syrian males are single, they won't be for long - since asylum status in Germany automatically makes them very eligible bachelors back home.
4
Ever considered that these people also increase overall economic growth if good treated??
1
The U.S. and Britain, to the delight and urging of Israel, invaded Iraq which created ISIL, destabilized the Middle East -- and now peaceful Greek islands are forced to process thousands of refugees? Why isn't the U.S supporting these islands and building sufficient infrastructure for these kinds of numbers? Why is the U.S giving Ukraine billions of dollars in aid and weapons but sitting on our hands while our allies Greece (and Italy) are overwhelmed with the aftermath of U.S political blunders?
I have been to several Greek islands and they were pristine. There is simply not enough population and resources to deal with tens of thousands of migrants and refugees in a touristic island like Lesbos. Come on. The E.U MUST step up its game and help Greece immediately, or Greece should load each and every migrant and refugee on its massive tankers, along with Italy, and send them straight to the U.K and Germany. Too bad the U.S is out of bounds, because we deserve the imposition.
I have been to several Greek islands and they were pristine. There is simply not enough population and resources to deal with tens of thousands of migrants and refugees in a touristic island like Lesbos. Come on. The E.U MUST step up its game and help Greece immediately, or Greece should load each and every migrant and refugee on its massive tankers, along with Italy, and send them straight to the U.K and Germany. Too bad the U.S is out of bounds, because we deserve the imposition.
45
"The U.S. and Britain, to the delight and urging of Israel, invaded Iraq which created ISIL, destabilized the Middle East" -- and large swaths of sub-saharan Africa under siege of related groups such s Boko Haram.
The hubris laden soundbites and zingers that led us into his mess are forgotten, unfortunately we somehow relinquish assuming such responsibility and are on the path to returning to power the same neocon cabal supporting the GOP candidates if not outright working for the sorts of Bush the Third.
Greece cannot cope with this influx reeling (yes to a large extend their own doing) like much of Europe has from the other crisis created by our financial sector run amuck in 2008. There too irresponsibility is the name of the game, after Goldman cooked the greek books they bankroll the next US election.
The hubris laden soundbites and zingers that led us into his mess are forgotten, unfortunately we somehow relinquish assuming such responsibility and are on the path to returning to power the same neocon cabal supporting the GOP candidates if not outright working for the sorts of Bush the Third.
Greece cannot cope with this influx reeling (yes to a large extend their own doing) like much of Europe has from the other crisis created by our financial sector run amuck in 2008. There too irresponsibility is the name of the game, after Goldman cooked the greek books they bankroll the next US election.
Destabilized the Middle East? Wut? When was it ever stable?
1
Nothing is stopping you from donating 10% of your income this year to alleviate this situation.
1
If there were explosions and bombs and fighting in my neighborhood, I'd be a refugee, too, even if I do have money in the bank. It's very kind of the Greeks to help these people instead of greeting them with hatred and death. I think our country could be a little kinder, too. The story didn't mention it, but I wonder whether the refugees are willing to help clean the areas where they stay. Is anyone organizing them in that way? It might help alleviate the burden on the local population. Where are the children? There were so few in the photos.
12
Local volunteers along with some tourists have been trying to clean the rubbish. It does not appear the refugees have any part in it.
1
Open arms is not a sustainable solution...anymore.
1
The 1st world and developing world nations can no longer show apathy to the wide spread corruption, brutality, and religious extremism practiced in the countries these migrants are fleeing from. At the same time, this chaotic flood of migrants must be stopped and illegal migrants that entered Europe must be housed and fed until the can be safely returned to their countries of origin. The alternative of allowing hundreds of thousands of unskilled migrants with repressive religious views that reject any notion of gender equality, preach violence against gay and trans-gender individuals, find western notions of civil liberties repugnant, and reject the separation of church and state risk triggering a massive civil and economic disruption that Europe may never recover from. The alternative of violence against these migrants would be just as unacceptable.
30
Once again, where are the rich Saudis, Qatar, Kuwait, Kurdistan, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, this is a Muslim problem, not a European problem. That someone can pass through two countries, before getting to Greece. The EU better get together and solve this problem, they are ill equipped to handle the deluge. And meanwhile the Saudis and Qatar are importing labor from Southeast Asia.
93
Might I remind you that the genesis of much of his refugee stream is the war in Irak, a war most of Europe with the exception of the UK vehemently opposed, with reason not 20/20 hindsight, we didn't listen then as the POTUS loudly claimed "we will go it alone", so please spare the sermon "the EU better get together and solve this problem".
3
These dictators which are kept in power by US Central Command are squandering hundreds of billions on corrupt arms deals and palaces instead of industrializing the region. They like the Saudis would not last a year in power without massive American military backing. American imperialism continues to play a central role in such disasters as well as in the "blowback" that resulted on 9/11.
Your last sentence is very telling.
1
The Hungarian prime minister, Viktor Obran stated he is not waiting for the EU to act on the migration crisis, he is building a fence. The fence strategy has worked in Israel to keep out migrants so it may work on the Hungarian and Bulgarian border. He foresees no end to end to the tide of migrants and has taken a proactive approach. For anyone interested in the Calais migrant crisis in northern France, the British press has coverage of new legislation being implemented to deter those "thinking the streets in Britain are paved with gold."
24
The Israeli fence wasn't built to keep "migrants" out, it was built to imprison Palestinians while absorbing huge swaths of their land.
3
In this Washington Post article I definitely got the impression the fence was effective in keeping African Migrants out. Those that are there are made an offer they can't refuse - $3,500 in cash and a one-way plane ticket back to Africa or incarceration.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/toughening-its-stance-t...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/toughening-its-stance-t...
Such a crisis, there's over-crowding all over EU, and they can't afford the migrants they currently have. Many European countries have situations with previous emigrants not integrating well. Decisions need to be made, restrictions need to be enacted and enforced for clearly Greece cannot afford themselves, never mind influx of desperate war and economic refugees.
This has to be addressed logistically, not emotively. What's possible, what's not possible. It has to be done the right way, legally, with proper identities given. And some, perhaps many, will need to be returned home. There is a limited number of space and availability. Like it or not.
This has to be addressed logistically, not emotively. What's possible, what's not possible. It has to be done the right way, legally, with proper identities given. And some, perhaps many, will need to be returned home. There is a limited number of space and availability. Like it or not.
29
Maybe if they killed a lion they will get more attention?
9
That is a false choice. Moreover, I am unaware that any of the migrants are being hunted for sport.
8
A great lion living in the woods of Cithaeron, The Thesbian Lion, was killed centuries ago by a Greek youth, and when married to a princess who gave him three sons, now a grown man, he went mad and murdered his family. There will be no more killing of lions in Greece, but a focus on its people; some who are trying to help these refugees against the odds.
Mr. Sergey Ponomarev has posted some very good pix.
Photographers carry a lot of story, but their credits are in microscopic typeface. What's up with that?
Photographers carry a lot of story, but their credits are in microscopic typeface. What's up with that?
7
Why can''t Greece and other countries get the word out to these people that they are not going to help themselves by coming to other countries. None of the other countries can take them in.
7
It's not going to matter really. If you're escaping war, there's very little you can do to make things in the host country worse than back home ... except shoot all of them on sight.
2
To balance the flow of people:
Countries should take immigrants from Near East in the same proportion that they have sent weapons and military there during the last 25 years.
To pay for the externalities is a part of the costs.
Countries should take immigrants from Near East in the same proportion that they have sent weapons and military there during the last 25 years.
To pay for the externalities is a part of the costs.
21
The Soviet Union supplied most of the weaponry to the countries that are the source of the refugees.
1
Crisis in Afghanistan
Crisis in Syria
Crisis in Greece
Crisis in ...
All part of the Bush-Cheney Legacy
It will take 50 years for the world to sort out and recover from the havoc they wrought and damage they inflicted on it.
Crisis in Syria
Crisis in Greece
Crisis in ...
All part of the Bush-Cheney Legacy
It will take 50 years for the world to sort out and recover from the havoc they wrought and damage they inflicted on it.
63
The republican voters should be reminded about this disaster they created. Bush and certainly Trump have no solutions. All they want to do is to build walls. No amount of walls will resolve this problem. Only by attacking the problem at its source will this problem be solved. Get rid of Assad in Syria and all the other dictators in Africa. Individual European countries can not solve this refugee problem even though some of them noticeably Sweden is doing extremely well under circumstances.
1
So it's still Bush's fault? Sorry, and I'm not a fan of Bush, but the Arab Spring spawned this nightmare and Obama was the cheer leader of the Arab Spring. He naively thought it was about democracy and freedom. Guess he doesn't really understand Islam.
If this is allowed to continue, it will only encourage many more thousands of illegally immigrating people. Like the life boats on the Titanic, too many people on one boat will sink the vessel.
Greece, like Italy and other nations, has very significant problems of its own, not the least of which is having enough money and resources for its own people. Rapidly growing populations in the Middle East and in Africa translates to more and more people wanting to come to Europe.
At some point, hopefully soon, the leaders of European countries will need to start returning these people to their lands of origin. At some point, these overwhelming numbers of people coming day and night will bring this change, hopefully through peaceful means, if not, these scenarios are likely to erupt violently.
Greece, like Italy and other nations, has very significant problems of its own, not the least of which is having enough money and resources for its own people. Rapidly growing populations in the Middle East and in Africa translates to more and more people wanting to come to Europe.
At some point, hopefully soon, the leaders of European countries will need to start returning these people to their lands of origin. At some point, these overwhelming numbers of people coming day and night will bring this change, hopefully through peaceful means, if not, these scenarios are likely to erupt violently.
23
It's called "the tragedy of the commons." Please re-read Garret Hardin.
This could very well be the beginning of the next global conflict -- WWIII -- Migrants are forced back or fired upon. Turkey invades some of the Greek Islamds to "protect" fellow Muslims. Then warfare.
10
It will not be over Greece. Trade routes maybe.
Here be the challenge of engineers, you have enough in your own land to sustain your own. Why come our way?
Here be the challenge of engineers, you have enough in your own land to sustain your own. Why come our way?
3
I am saddened by the plethora of comments throwing easy judgement upon these people who are so desperate to leave their countries. Seriously, would this number of people disrupt their lives and take large risks if things were ok at home? I doubt it. If everyone would take a pause, and picture yourself living in extreme violence, with little employment, vast corruption and no hope for the future, ask yourself what would you do?
I get it - there are many root causes to this chaos, no simple answers and certainly no buckets of cash being put forward to help. Let's just all be a bit more kind in our judgement of our fellow humans.
I get it - there are many root causes to this chaos, no simple answers and certainly no buckets of cash being put forward to help. Let's just all be a bit more kind in our judgement of our fellow humans.
49
It's easy to take the side of the refugee if you only see their side of the story. The fact is taking on migrants is a strain and choosing to help has its own cost. Refusing to help should
This is why the US border with Mexico is so fortified.
This is why the US border with Mexico is so fortified.
Yvonne...the problem is that most are economic migrants...not people fleeing genocide
1
Well I guess squalor beats torture and death.
9
This is a horrifying story. What is this, year 1640? Where are the wealthy governments of the region? The UN? Where is anybody?
Greece is barely holding together and they they have to deal with an influx 15,000 desperate refugees a month? We couldn't handle 15,000 per month.
How much are we spending bombing ISIS? We just spent 1/2 billion to train less than 60 Syrian fighters who promptly fell apart. But yet, there is no money for portapotties and food for these poor people. No tents.
Why don't the mighty wealthy gulf nations help. They spend untold fortunes financing madrassas and exporting their toxic Salafi Islam, but yet can't buy something to eat for these unfortunate masses.
We have made a terrible mess of things over there. The resident nations have all contributed to further their own selfish agendas.
Notice that none of the refugees want to settle in an Islamic country. What does that indicate? It indicates the close knit brotherhood of the Islamic people don't care about their own. They are all one nation when it comes to wreaking havoc in the world, but but when people are dying at sea, it's who are those guys? Do we know them?
Everyone is everyone else's pawn. Loyalties are purchased. Everyone is in charge and no one is in charge. This is the sorry condition of the Middle East. That's why no one cares about these people or tries to do anything to alleviate their suffering.
Greece is barely holding together and they they have to deal with an influx 15,000 desperate refugees a month? We couldn't handle 15,000 per month.
How much are we spending bombing ISIS? We just spent 1/2 billion to train less than 60 Syrian fighters who promptly fell apart. But yet, there is no money for portapotties and food for these poor people. No tents.
Why don't the mighty wealthy gulf nations help. They spend untold fortunes financing madrassas and exporting their toxic Salafi Islam, but yet can't buy something to eat for these unfortunate masses.
We have made a terrible mess of things over there. The resident nations have all contributed to further their own selfish agendas.
Notice that none of the refugees want to settle in an Islamic country. What does that indicate? It indicates the close knit brotherhood of the Islamic people don't care about their own. They are all one nation when it comes to wreaking havoc in the world, but but when people are dying at sea, it's who are those guys? Do we know them?
Everyone is everyone else's pawn. Loyalties are purchased. Everyone is in charge and no one is in charge. This is the sorry condition of the Middle East. That's why no one cares about these people or tries to do anything to alleviate their suffering.
88
I agree with the first part of your comment but have to say that there were over a million Iraqi refugees in Syria in 2006. And there are over two million Syrian refugees in Turkey and Jordan now. I don't know whether they want/settled in their host countries or not but given the fact that migrants and refugees arriving in Europe are nowhere near millions, I would say that the burden is on Muslim-majority countries. This is not to say that I do not feel bad for Greece that has to deal with the influx of destitute people in addition to their existing issues.
1
Only squalor awaits them? Surely the New York Times realizes that squalor is vastly preferable to being constantly subjected to barrel bombing....
4
Seems like the kind of thing the Red Cross would be helping with?
1
Wrong country;
1
International Red Cross exists.
The stunning photograph of the refugees seeking safety reminded me of my father's escape from Turkey nearly 100 years ago. He was 5-years-old when his mother, fearing an attack by the Ottoman Turks against the Greeks living on the coast of Turkey, gathered up her children, hired a boat and late at night fled from that very same coast to the Island of Lesbos. Eventually, they reunited with his father who had already made his way to Peabody, Massachusetts. His great-grandsons now live in Boston.
17
On NPR this or last week there was a fascinating segment about Zimbabwe which may shed light on a big portion of this crisis:
"It's been 15 years since Zimbabwe launched a campaign to seize large tracts of land from white farmers. At the time, more than 4,000 white-owned farms were taken....The move proved to be a disaster."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/08/01/428355238/zimbabwe-may-gi...
And I would also urge readers to read this United Nations report on population growth:
"More than half of global population growth betw
een now and 2050 is expected to occur in Africa.
Africa has the highest rate of population growth among major areas, growing at a pace of 2.55 per cent annually in 2010-2015 (figure 3). Con
sequently, of the additional 2.4 billion people projected to be added
to the global population between 2015 and 2050, 1.3 billion
will be added in Africa. "
http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/Key_Findings_WPP_2015.pdf
"It's been 15 years since Zimbabwe launched a campaign to seize large tracts of land from white farmers. At the time, more than 4,000 white-owned farms were taken....The move proved to be a disaster."
http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/08/01/428355238/zimbabwe-may-gi...
And I would also urge readers to read this United Nations report on population growth:
"More than half of global population growth betw
een now and 2050 is expected to occur in Africa.
Africa has the highest rate of population growth among major areas, growing at a pace of 2.55 per cent annually in 2010-2015 (figure 3). Con
sequently, of the additional 2.4 billion people projected to be added
to the global population between 2015 and 2050, 1.3 billion
will be added in Africa. "
http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/Key_Findings_WPP_2015.pdf
41
The stunning photo of the refugees in a raft with the Turkish mainland in the background reminded me of my father's fleeim
2
It may be necessary that the EU will have to adopt the radical approach taken by of one its members, Hungary: shut the borders to the unwanted migrants. The alternative will be internal unrest, rise of extreme political parties, and ultimate demise of the union.
41
How about a better idea: put the UN in charge of placing refugees among all the nations on Earth so that EVERYONE shares the "burden" of hosting people who are fleeing sure annihilation, torture, starvation, and death.
I'm stunned at the shortsighted thinking of people who wage war, and from those who profit from it. It does nothing but destroy lives.
Time for a new paradigm.
#WeAreOne
I'm stunned at the shortsighted thinking of people who wage war, and from those who profit from it. It does nothing but destroy lives.
Time for a new paradigm.
#WeAreOne
23
We knew this would occur if we bred, ate and built at rates we continue to. The third world insisted that it was ALL AMERICA'S and EUROPE'S fault because they invented the system of intensive capitalism and of exploitation. Now, because they were once so poor, they DEserveTO BE rich AND THAT, THE USA AND EUROPE needed to pay the bills to fix the planet, as they accumulate and as they continue to poison it.
That we could all be wealthy without poison, is not their aim!--No. Their desire IS to pollute and destroy at the rate we once did, in our infantile ignorance. All the while claiming that "they have a RIGHT to poison and pollute" as much as we did-
The Chinese and Rus also feel this way and Indians and Pakistanis as well as Arabian oil states feel the same.
Time's up on this attitude. . .
"No Western nations make a design of death and destruction just to prove they can die !"
If former 3rd world states think like infantile pigs they need to be curbed by those of us who had to step in so much of our own offal while pretending it wasn't there. There is no "right to pollute" for anyone just because the political system was different, once, when France, Germany and Britain knew they owned the world and practiced it.
That we could all be wealthy without poison, is not their aim!--No. Their desire IS to pollute and destroy at the rate we once did, in our infantile ignorance. All the while claiming that "they have a RIGHT to poison and pollute" as much as we did-
The Chinese and Rus also feel this way and Indians and Pakistanis as well as Arabian oil states feel the same.
Time's up on this attitude. . .
"No Western nations make a design of death and destruction just to prove they can die !"
If former 3rd world states think like infantile pigs they need to be curbed by those of us who had to step in so much of our own offal while pretending it wasn't there. There is no "right to pollute" for anyone just because the political system was different, once, when France, Germany and Britain knew they owned the world and practiced it.
3
There are many good ideas as to what the UN should do next. The UN is chartered to bring secure borders for nations. But we've seen so much "mission creep" that many ppl believe that the UN is a world government.
World government is not in effect. If enough ppl want it, it could happen but," there is much work to do."
World government is not in effect. If enough ppl want it, it could happen but," there is much work to do."
2
Free to leave their over populated country of birth and plunge into the squalor. Is this what we want from trying to achieve a regime change. It is the worst of times for millions of inhabitants of our planet because their destiny is in the hands of world powers. How much crises can Greece handle. I am glad to read that Greek Islands are being sold to get some money into the coffers.
8
So you think that the Greeks should sell their homeland to support creditors and illegal immigrants? I don't think that type of idea would sell too well in any country and it hasn't in Greece either.
Stop the migration and stop the costs. That way Greece can deal with it's own problems.
Stop the migration and stop the costs. That way Greece can deal with it's own problems.
3
No I do not think that the Greeks should sell their homeland to support migrants landing on their shores. They can provide some emergency humanitarian assistance and arrange to send them elsewhere. Greece has 6000 islands and not all are developed or inhabited. I just read a report that an island was sold to a soccer star and I did think that it is a good idea to generate much needed funds. Borrowing money and not paying it back or even the interest on the amount loaned has to have consequences. Regarding stopping the illegal migration is easier said then done and the problem is universal.
1
This humanitarian catastrophe is in large part the result of climate change; hotter & dryer conditions in the sub-tropics reduce food supplies and available water, increasing the frequency and intensity of conflict and civil war, and force people to move north in search of safety and the necessities of life. There's going to be a lot more of this in the years ahead, in the Western hemisphere as well. The societies where the refugees may struggle to accommodate their needs, as in Greece. In wealthier countries conflict about immigration increases as people put the blame for a host of social problems onto new arrivals (as in the UK and US). But we've benefited the most of high-carbon lifestyles, and helped create the situation that leads to so many people desperate, homeless, and hungry. I wonder how many humans will survive the next 100 years of climate change, resource wars, rising oceans, & collapsing ecosystems.
26
When migrants comes to US from mexico through Texas, everyone blames republicans and their harsh immigration policies. But when migrants comes to Europe from Africa/Asia, the entire tone towards immigrants changes. Hate towards Republicans or hate against migrants?. Cant understand.
9
Oh man, Greece can't catch a break.
22
What's wrong with Lebanon, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Quatar, Kuwait? Why do they chose Europe? So the collective Muslim subconscious tell these migrants that Europe is better than any of the Muslim countries. Getting curioser and curioser.
87
Turkey hosts two millions Syrian refugees, Lebanon about three-quarter of a millions, Jordan probably a half million. Those are from a war-torn country.
Economic refugees choose more prosperous countries to migrate with the hop of getting a job and making a safe, and economically secure life.
Economic refugees choose more prosperous countries to migrate with the hop of getting a job and making a safe, and economically secure life.
1
Lebanon is not one of the signing countries of the 1951 Refugee Convention for sure. I doubt Saudi Arabia, Quatar, and Kuwait are. I don't know if Turkey is one of the member countries, but they have taken in large amounts of Syrian refugees. It's odd isn't it, most of the refugee/immigrants/ asylum seekers and/or economic migrants are Muslim, yet they make a point of choosing destination countries that they know are obliged to provide for them while detaining western values (except for cell-phones). PS. I don't have a cell-phone, I can't afford one.
1
These people should be rounded up and dropped at Saudi Arabia's door. Most of them speak Arabic, they are Muslim and Saudi Arabia has a lot of money to support these people. Spain, Italy and especially Greece have double digit unemployment and barely have enough to support their own people on welfare without supporting these others uninvited people. Yes, Turkey should also take them in. The migrants complain about the horrible conditions. If you came to my home uninvited I wouldn't be spending any money on you to make you feel welcome,
The Pope said that Europe should be more welcoming to the migrants. He should step up and pay these other countries for the money spent on the uninvited hoards. or he could invite the migrants to stay in the Vatican compound or at the Pope's summer residence. He isn't using it.
I had to laugh when I read the part of the woman who flew with her kids to a different country and then got in a boat with others. If you wash up on the shore then it's your right to stay?
The Pope said that Europe should be more welcoming to the migrants. He should step up and pay these other countries for the money spent on the uninvited hoards. or he could invite the migrants to stay in the Vatican compound or at the Pope's summer residence. He isn't using it.
I had to laugh when I read the part of the woman who flew with her kids to a different country and then got in a boat with others. If you wash up on the shore then it's your right to stay?
66
S.L., the Vatican state's budget is about Euro 60 million per year, in good years there may be a little surplus of Euro 5 million or so, but that's it. A mere fraction of the Euro 5 billion per year that German dioceses of the R.-Catholic church get via church taxes. The Pope is right to say that the EU must act.
These people look more like invaders than refugees.
60
Nothing biblical about it. Good men (with women behind them) took the children out of dangerous waters. Now, the hard part The children will not stand still.
2
G.P.
I wish I knew what this mysterious message meant. Can you or someone translate it for me?
I wish I knew what this mysterious message meant. Can you or someone translate it for me?
Maybe, GPS which is Global Positioning System. Google it, you will find out more.
1
This is hard to comprehend. "Refugees" pay to fly from Muslim country to Muslim country and then pay a large fee to board a raft and illegally appear on a beach of a non Muslim country, pay nothing and expect what?
100
Board a raft, and according to a NYTs video deflate the raft with a sharp stick to facilitate a rescue by the Hellenic Coast Guard. I thought when I saw that that, to me, this is all staged. As it is in the Mediterranean where the migrants set out in the proverbial rickety boats, given a cell-phone, told to wait ten hours and call the number for the ship, (navy or search and rescue) to let them know where they are. They have no intention of reaching the coast and know they have to be rescued once in International waters. Europeans are being taken advantage of.
2
Sorry, my reference to the refugees deflating a raft in order to facilitate a rescue may or may not be correct. Another source says the refugees are instructed to deflate the rafts by the people smugglers, once they are rescued.
Biblical photographs of misery and needing.
This of course is our collective futures - overpopulation .And its going to get a lot worse fast.
Oh but lets not fund planned parenthood!
This of course is our collective futures - overpopulation .And its going to get a lot worse fast.
Oh but lets not fund planned parenthood!
102
What does this story have to do with overpopulation? The article indicates that 60% of the arrivals are from Syria and 20% from Afghanistan. That's 80% who would be quite content to stay in their countries if it were not for current extreme violence.
7
How does reducing native American population through planned parenthood reduces the population of Africa and Asia?. Is that reducing the native population is one of the reasons why we have to invite more people from Aisa/Africa/middle east?. Didn't we study anything from these stories?. As per the law of the nature, people will come no matter what if the native population is decreasing. And that is exactly what is happening in Europe and Americas.
2
Some people complain that planned parenthood won't help refugees from Syria.
Well, planned parenthood in the US won't help Syrians, but family planning programs within Syria would most likely have averted the civil war that is claiming so many lives.
Look up the population growth of Syria on the web! You will see that Syria has had population growth of 3% per annum for several decades, slowing to 2% recently. (Of course deaths due to the war will slow population growth some.) The PROXIMATE cause of the Syrian civil war might be sectarian violence, but the conditions that led to the civil war included that mind-numbing population growth which meant there was not enough land in Syria for all of the people. Fighting was the "solution" that occurred.
Well, planned parenthood in the US won't help Syrians, but family planning programs within Syria would most likely have averted the civil war that is claiming so many lives.
Look up the population growth of Syria on the web! You will see that Syria has had population growth of 3% per annum for several decades, slowing to 2% recently. (Of course deaths due to the war will slow population growth some.) The PROXIMATE cause of the Syrian civil war might be sectarian violence, but the conditions that led to the civil war included that mind-numbing population growth which meant there was not enough land in Syria for all of the people. Fighting was the "solution" that occurred.
11
Ignorance or knowledge, greed or sharing, corruption or honesty, apathy or involvement, humiliation or dignity, enslavement or liberty, hierarchy or equality, death or re-birth, dictatorship or democracy, pollution or renewable energy- we all know what must be done and whether we like it or not, the 1st world nations and the developing world nations better get to work or life on our blue/green planet will quickly disappear.
4
Immigration on this scale and in very short time will lead to civil unrest. Europe, get your act together. Provide humanitarian aid and stop the flow. It will not stop.
63
I pray it will lead to unrest; these are economic migrants coming in to steal the jobs of europeans, leech its welfare benefits, and eventually forcibly convert europe to the death cult of islam. Europe needs to awaken from its stupor or in 20 years it will not exist.
17
If humanitarian aid was not being provided the flow would stop. They come because they can.
1
Proof that these people are not refugees is in the story of the teacher from Syria who took a plane to Lebanon then another plane to Turkey. Before paying smugglers to take her illegally to Greece. She had money for two plane tickets and to pay smugglers. Real refugees apply legally to enter a country and wait outside the country for permission to enter. They are also to seek refuge in the first safe country which in her case was Lebanon. This is a person who cares nothing about the law or about anyone other then herself. She will continue with the same behavior in whatever country will have her. With 25% unemployment I don't blame the Greek government for doing very little for these illegal immigrants. They have their own citizens who are paying taxes and following the law to consider.Of course Individual Greeks like the priest who says everyone must help are free to give them charity out of their own pocket.
92
"Real refugees apply legally to enter a country and wait outside the country for permission to enter."
And you know this because you have had first hand experience as a real refugee from a country with a civil war?
Where would you suggest she wait while she applies for permission to enter? Turkey? Italy? Cleveland?
And you know this because you have had first hand experience as a real refugee from a country with a civil war?
Where would you suggest she wait while she applies for permission to enter? Turkey? Italy? Cleveland?
8
True. It is just like Mexicans coming here. They pay thousands of dollars to get into the U.S. It makes me wonder 'Where did they get the money?'
1
She should wait for permission to enter in the first safe country she arrives in. She flew into Lebanon so apparently they have a safe airport. She can wait there and if she wants to go to Greece or any other country then she can apply to enter legally. That is what the 75,000 refugees who enter the US each year do. It is the law, you don't simply show up and declare yourself a "refugee" after flying into two other countries.
2
Of course, countries like Greece, Italy, etc can't shoulder the burden without outside help. Much of this help ought to come from the countries which were most in favour of regime changes - from Iraq to Lybia and to Syria.
As much as regime changes may be desirable, most of the countries which are now torn apart by war and reduced to rubble, were at least able to provide for their citizensm, until the west stepped in - mostly the US - pointed guns at them and told them, that they can't have it their way and that they must strive at all costs for western style freedom.
If war is unleashed on Iran and if this highly civilized country is bombed into freedom or submission, depending on your point of view, as so many war mongers from Washington to Riad and Tel Aviv are advocating, there will be up to 30, 40, maybe 50 Million Iranian refugees wanting to leave their country for safer shores.
Next time, Mr. Netanyahu and much of his Republican congress press for action against Iran, they should be reminded of the principle, that if you break it, you own it.
Meanwhile, urgent financial and logistical assistance is needed for Greece, which is doing an admirable job for the refugees, given their circumstances.
As much as regime changes may be desirable, most of the countries which are now torn apart by war and reduced to rubble, were at least able to provide for their citizensm, until the west stepped in - mostly the US - pointed guns at them and told them, that they can't have it their way and that they must strive at all costs for western style freedom.
If war is unleashed on Iran and if this highly civilized country is bombed into freedom or submission, depending on your point of view, as so many war mongers from Washington to Riad and Tel Aviv are advocating, there will be up to 30, 40, maybe 50 Million Iranian refugees wanting to leave their country for safer shores.
Next time, Mr. Netanyahu and much of his Republican congress press for action against Iran, they should be reminded of the principle, that if you break it, you own it.
Meanwhile, urgent financial and logistical assistance is needed for Greece, which is doing an admirable job for the refugees, given their circumstances.
55
Yes, those countries certainly provided well for their citizens; like torturing and murdering them in every which way possible.
And I hate to burst your fantasy bubble further, but there are wars raging in the mideast that actually have NOTHING to do with the Us or Europe.
And I hate to burst your fantasy bubble further, but there are wars raging in the mideast that actually have NOTHING to do with the Us or Europe.
6
I expressed a very similar opinion in a comment to another article on the migrant and refugee crisis in Europe. I wonder how many people here blaming the migrants for this crisis supported and continue to support disastrous foreign policies of the West in the Middle East and elsewhere.
I also suggested that the UK and France take in refugees from Libya, that the U.S. and its allies in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars accept refugees from these countries commensurate with the participation of each invading country, and that most prominent Western warmongers chip in to accommodate migrants and refugees from Syria. Maybe then Western leaders will learn to consider consequences of their decisions to change regimes around the world.
I also suggested that the UK and France take in refugees from Libya, that the U.S. and its allies in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars accept refugees from these countries commensurate with the participation of each invading country, and that most prominent Western warmongers chip in to accommodate migrants and refugees from Syria. Maybe then Western leaders will learn to consider consequences of their decisions to change regimes around the world.
1
This is sad on so many levels. My heart goes out to these refugees. They are leaving war torn countries to do better for their children. Yet Greeks are suffering as well. It must be heart wrenching for them as they have no means to help.
15
Then why don't you ask your government to take them in, instead of saying "my heart goes out ...", or even send them money, or do something concrete instead of staying there in your expensive city and do nothing?
9
Bill, you are in my thoughts and prayers [satire].
4
How are these people refugees? Their countries are not invaded by foreign forces but are the stages of raging civil or tribal wars; they do not lose the citizenship of their birth countries. Yes, they want a better economic and social lives but so do a lot of poor people in Europe and Ukraine. But they have no plans to conform to the customs of the European society they feel they have the right to inhabit: they will bring their own customs, however foreign to Europe, and violently demand acceptance. This is an economic migration with very far reaching social consequences. And they, for some mysterious reason, do not wish to go to a rich Muslim country. Any research was conducted as to why?
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That is an excellent question! I can only guess that they are very much NOT welcome in those countries.
13
I'm wondering who's paying the traffickers the money to bring them over to Greece and Italy. It's not inexpensive, but somehow money for whole families are found.
3
Read the article again - "About 60 percent of the arrivals are from Syria. The next largest group, making up about 20 percent, are Afghans." No conflict in Syria or Afghanistan - really?
3
Unfortunately, our systems are so complex now that refugees cannot simply come to Europe and plant their tents there.
Accepting refugees comes at a great costs to economies of Europe as they spend the most on social care.
Needless to say, spending more when neither the US, China or India, nor their Muslims "brothers" don't doesn't seem terribly fair.
Most of the world crises were started by the US. Why should Europe pay? That doesn't seem to be fair as well.
The fact is that Europe doesn't owe anything to the rest of the world. Colonialism died after WWII and all debts have been settled long time ago.
Those countries are prey to extremists that have declared war to the west. They want us to have refugees. That is their way of waging an indirect war on us.
Why should we play their game, it would just be encouraging them?
Would destroying a few of those ships and stopping the flow bring better long term results? I believe so. A strong warning should be made, then a barrage should be organized. Those people would stay where they belong and fight for their countries instead of giving in. That would put a stop to the trouble makers' devilish strategy. Granted a few people would die but that has been unfortunately the state of the world since the beginnings, that would not be abnormal, except to the very short sighted who think the internet is the real world.
Accepting refugees comes at a great costs to economies of Europe as they spend the most on social care.
Needless to say, spending more when neither the US, China or India, nor their Muslims "brothers" don't doesn't seem terribly fair.
Most of the world crises were started by the US. Why should Europe pay? That doesn't seem to be fair as well.
The fact is that Europe doesn't owe anything to the rest of the world. Colonialism died after WWII and all debts have been settled long time ago.
Those countries are prey to extremists that have declared war to the west. They want us to have refugees. That is their way of waging an indirect war on us.
Why should we play their game, it would just be encouraging them?
Would destroying a few of those ships and stopping the flow bring better long term results? I believe so. A strong warning should be made, then a barrage should be organized. Those people would stay where they belong and fight for their countries instead of giving in. That would put a stop to the trouble makers' devilish strategy. Granted a few people would die but that has been unfortunately the state of the world since the beginnings, that would not be abnormal, except to the very short sighted who think the internet is the real world.
11
What are the people who arrive expecting?
17
Sharing my thoughts: What is the smiling woman in the clean white head scarf doing with this bunch? Is this a picnic? Little kid has a life jacket, as do a bunch of the hearty looking men. Nice tat. These are not desperate impoverished starving people.
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This article notes that, by the time that a Syrian or Afghan reaches Greek soil, she or he will have crossed a number of other countries, not least Turkey. Those among the migrants who plan to seek refugee status are meant to request that status in the first country in which they arrive after fleeing their country of origin. Those granted refugee status are then meant to be sent to countries of resettlement, What is needed is the commitment of resources to making that system of granting refugee status work. Other, ad hoc approaches will only perpetuate this crisis. And international criticism of countries like Turkey for allowing human trafficking across their soil is also very much in order.
37
Why are these people referred to as refugees? The moment they arrived in Turkey, they were safe from conflict; that they chose to go illegally to Europe for a better life makes them economic migrants. The EU should tell Turkey to seal its borders, or the EU will block Turkish trade, see how long it takes Ankara to sing a different tune.
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Good effort to blame Turkey for all things wrong in that pert of the world. But, if someone enters your country as a "transit" person you may not legally retain him there to protect your neighbor from the burden. That would be against the intention law. Furthermore, all migrants departure points are not in Turkey.
There are 1.9 million refugees in Turkey (mostly from Syria) - they are not prisoners. It is unsurprising that a few will move on. They want to go home.
3
NO, going to Europe for a better life makes them illegal immigrants because they have not entered legally.
1
This is a failure of contraception and sex education and the conservative religious and authoritarian political regimes that peddle religious ignorance.
Without a revolotion in sex education and contraception and women's rights, the entire globe will be overrun with immigration catastrophes.
Without a revolotion in sex education and contraception and women's rights, the entire globe will be overrun with immigration catastrophes.
144
How about you go to those countries and gives them basic education first, rather than sitting in the couch with a clown picture posting your hatred towards religions?. Or how about going to China or North Korea, the least religious country of the world for a change?
3
Nonsense. There is no desire within these countries to limit the population, quite the contrary. It is against Allah to use contraception; don't blame the conservatives, blame the Imams.
1
Quite right! Both the bible and the Koran urge their followers to multiply. It is romantically (and perhaps naively) implied that God will provide for each new baby so parents have no duty to , ahem, *plan their parenthood*
Then the economy of these somewhat mismanaged countries are supposed to keep up with a geometric population growth??
Science is doing what it can to help, but it can't work miracles and we shouldn't expect it to. Male contraception will be an enormous boon to mankind's safety, I feel.
Then the economy of these somewhat mismanaged countries are supposed to keep up with a geometric population growth??
Science is doing what it can to help, but it can't work miracles and we shouldn't expect it to. Male contraception will be an enormous boon to mankind's safety, I feel.
1
I'm totally fed up with the notion that the Western World must forever be a refuge for the 2.5 billion people who are unable to feed and prosper their own. It's time to help our own, many who were economically destroyed by Great Depression 2 and remain that way to this day. It is nothing more than insanity to willfully destroy our cultural heritage by importing hundreds of thousands of people who hold us and our values in contempt even as we feed, clothe and house them.
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Ah, it was the western world that decided that third world countries needed to develop and raise their standard of living. It is western medicine that is also raising the population in these countries.
The place with the highest population growth (I believe) is Gaza, followed by the West Bank.
I empathize with Greece. They need this like a hole in the head.
The place with the highest population growth (I believe) is Gaza, followed by the West Bank.
I empathize with Greece. They need this like a hole in the head.
3
Greece is nowhere near California - so you are feeding, clothing and housing nobody. But perhaps you should - Western meddling in the Middle East has been a major contributor to that region's woes.
7
This does not help at all. Whether we want it or not. Nothing can stop those people to come to Europe. We can argue against them - they will come and will not stop to come. Since the only possibilty to stop it would be to fight the refugees. Europe should see in the eye of the situation. I guess, the only way is to support these people, educate them, give them jobs. These are people who, want to get a life, build a house, establish a family, buy a car. If we give them eduaction and jobs, they will give to us economic growth. Close to Vienna we have a refugee camp with 4000 people. 1800 of them are under 18 years old, without any grown ups with them. If we educate them right there is a chance of doing it right. Not to educate them, we will loose these people to radical groups for sure.
Flight or fight? At some point don't you band together and wrest your homeland back from a corrupt government? Stake a claim on the land you were born and raised on, fight for your culture? Battle for peace?
21
Ignorance or knowledge, greed or sharing, corruption or honesty, apathy or involvement, humiliation or dignity, enslavement or liberty, hierarchy or equality, death or re-birth, dictatorship or democracy, pollution or renewable energy- we all know what must be done and whether we like it or not, the 1st world nations and the developing world nations better get to work or life on our blue/green will quickly disappear.
6
Why should Greece and Europe take these migrants in? Greece, for instance, is the state of the Greek People. These migrants have no intention of becoming real Greeks. They want to stay what they are. They'll come over and start muslim'ing up the place with their sharia, and their halal and their costumes and their 6th century headgear. Who needs that?
Show up clean, with a passport, some skills and a desire to learn the language and become a true Brit and I'd bet that they'd think about it, otherwise Greece and Europe are not for them.
Give them some food, medical care as necessary, and then send a message by re-depositing them back onto the very same beaches that they came from.Show them that this unfettered immigration is futile.
If your conscience is bothering you, give them some money so that they can subsist back home. Spending money on them there is better than spending money on them when they show up.
Show up clean, with a passport, some skills and a desire to learn the language and become a true Brit and I'd bet that they'd think about it, otherwise Greece and Europe are not for them.
Give them some food, medical care as necessary, and then send a message by re-depositing them back onto the very same beaches that they came from.Show them that this unfettered immigration is futile.
If your conscience is bothering you, give them some money so that they can subsist back home. Spending money on them there is better than spending money on them when they show up.
114
You go guy!!!
The Greeks should threaten to open the floodgates if the Germans don't loosen the screws.
11
Spain, France, Italy and Greece are paying more than 50% of the cost of patrolling the EU's common southern border. It is time for these countries to send Germany the bill.
37
Germany already accepts a higher number of refugees than most other EU nations.
12
Germany is taking in more refugees than any other member of the EU. That's "paying the bill". And look at a map - Germany does not actually have a sea coast on the Mediterranean.
6
This symbolism of this crisis applies to many parts of the world.
I think the Internet is helping to fuel desperation migration because people can now see clearly how different life is more-developed countries than their own.
True, war and corrupt leadership are driving many to flee. However, the flow of economic migrants will only increase in the years ahead.
Perhaps, as others have suggested, this illegal migration will only end when all countries reach a similar level of development and peace.
I think the Internet is helping to fuel desperation migration because people can now see clearly how different life is more-developed countries than their own.
True, war and corrupt leadership are driving many to flee. However, the flow of economic migrants will only increase in the years ahead.
Perhaps, as others have suggested, this illegal migration will only end when all countries reach a similar level of development and peace.
7
We live on one planet.
We will either all go up, or all go down, together.
We will either all go up, or all go down, together.
11
Do you think the war in Syria might also have something to do with this?
11
And the tragedy is: there is enough for everyone. No reason for anyone to go hungry or without shelter.
3
It might be time for Ms.Merkel and Mr.Schauble to realize helping Greece is not only in Germany's interest, nor even in Europe's interest, but in view of global peace.
On one side, Greece is in disarray, and the weakest entrance to the tens of thousands immigrants we should expect to land any day. On the other side, the dramatic reality is that there will be no end to this afflux of refugees as long as these wars go on, and they will go on.
So what should Germany, France and the UK do, instead of waiting for the immigrants to crush against their own borders? Why not help Greece help the refugees?
Selfishness is going to ruin the EU project
On one side, Greece is in disarray, and the weakest entrance to the tens of thousands immigrants we should expect to land any day. On the other side, the dramatic reality is that there will be no end to this afflux of refugees as long as these wars go on, and they will go on.
So what should Germany, France and the UK do, instead of waiting for the immigrants to crush against their own borders? Why not help Greece help the refugees?
Selfishness is going to ruin the EU project
22
Greece should withdraw from NATO and let the Germans defend the European Union's eastern border with the Islamic world.
Greece should open its border to immigrants. They can't stay in Greece; there are no jobs. They will move on.
In fact, the "bail-out" guarantees that the current entire generation of young Greeks will never work regularly. Why should young Greeks care about Germany? Any young Greek who can leave Greece is leaving Greece.
From 1453 to 1821, Greece was occupied by the Ottoman Turks. During this time Europeans spent their time massacring each other. No one in Europe came to Greece's aid.
Then after 1918, hundreds of thousands of Greeks as well as thousands of Armenians were massacred by the Ottoman Turks. No one in Europe cared to help Greece...or Armenia.
Then during WWII the Germans occupied Greece and murdered thousands of people there, including wiping out Greece's large and vibrant Spanish Jewish population which had lived in Greece since they were expelled from Spain in 1492.
Germany needs Greece more than Greece needs Germany.
Greece should open its border to immigrants. They can't stay in Greece; there are no jobs. They will move on.
In fact, the "bail-out" guarantees that the current entire generation of young Greeks will never work regularly. Why should young Greeks care about Germany? Any young Greek who can leave Greece is leaving Greece.
From 1453 to 1821, Greece was occupied by the Ottoman Turks. During this time Europeans spent their time massacring each other. No one in Europe came to Greece's aid.
Then after 1918, hundreds of thousands of Greeks as well as thousands of Armenians were massacred by the Ottoman Turks. No one in Europe cared to help Greece...or Armenia.
Then during WWII the Germans occupied Greece and murdered thousands of people there, including wiping out Greece's large and vibrant Spanish Jewish population which had lived in Greece since they were expelled from Spain in 1492.
Germany needs Greece more than Greece needs Germany.
28
You obviously don't know that the Greeks chose to separate from the Catholic church and started their decline towards the abyss at that time. When you put yourself outside the system deliberately you choose your own fate, don't blame any one else for not helping you.
1
Excellent comment, and couldn't agree more.
We could learn from this terrible situation. The European countries know that simply inviting anyone who gets to their borders in is a disaster. Hordes of poor, uneducated, unskilled people with huge families, and tremendous social needs doesn't make the native citizens lives any better. Politicians here and in Europe don't want to admit the non the pc truth of economic migration. The average citizen in western industrial society knows his lifestyle will be negatively influenced by this tidal wave and wants no part of it.
We should help the countries where people's lives are being disrupted solve their problems at home. This won't be easy or cheap, but Being the dumping ground for everyone on earth who wants a better life doesn't work for the increasingly smaller parts of the world that remain relatively prosperous and stable. Our open border to the south illustrates this as well as the Mediterranean Sea does.
We should help the countries where people's lives are being disrupted solve their problems at home. This won't be easy or cheap, but Being the dumping ground for everyone on earth who wants a better life doesn't work for the increasingly smaller parts of the world that remain relatively prosperous and stable. Our open border to the south illustrates this as well as the Mediterranean Sea does.
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"The European countries know...inviting anyone who gets to their borders in is a disaster."
No European country has invited anyone to Europe. The people are fleeing horrific conditions.
"We should help the countries where people's lives are being disrupted solve their problems at home."
We do help. We arm the dictators who rule their countries. In fact, the boundaries of most African and Middle Eastern countries were drawn by European bureaucrats during colonialism, which didn't completely end until the 1970s.
"Our open border to the south illustrates this...'
Our "open" border which you have never seen and about which you know nothing?
And why do Spain, France, Italy and Greece pay more than 50% of the costs of patrolling the European Union's southern and eastern borders? Why don't Germany and Great Britain pay their share?
However, yesterday I signed up to volunteer to help immigrants at my community's Adult Basic Education program. And no, I won't be asking anyone what their immigration status is; I will help all who come. But I want to sincerely thank the people like you who have inspired me to be a decent human being.
No European country has invited anyone to Europe. The people are fleeing horrific conditions.
"We should help the countries where people's lives are being disrupted solve their problems at home."
We do help. We arm the dictators who rule their countries. In fact, the boundaries of most African and Middle Eastern countries were drawn by European bureaucrats during colonialism, which didn't completely end until the 1970s.
"Our open border to the south illustrates this...'
Our "open" border which you have never seen and about which you know nothing?
And why do Spain, France, Italy and Greece pay more than 50% of the costs of patrolling the European Union's southern and eastern borders? Why don't Germany and Great Britain pay their share?
However, yesterday I signed up to volunteer to help immigrants at my community's Adult Basic Education program. And no, I won't be asking anyone what their immigration status is; I will help all who come. But I want to sincerely thank the people like you who have inspired me to be a decent human being.
5
I will do what I can do to legally help migrants, regardless of their immigration status.
I have learned from your COMMENTS that *I* want to be a decent human being.
I have learned from your COMMENTS that *I* want to be a decent human being.
8
People need to stay and fight, not flee!
We should help them do that with free supplies.
What are they going to do in Europe anyway?
So they are caught in a war. Too bad! but that is their country, not mine. If they don't defend it, who will?
Why should they be allowed to come to Europe? Because they are small in numbers? Because they are desperate? Because it's closer than the US? None of this is a good reason. These people want to get a livestyle upgrade for free and benefit from social assistance under the guise of political asylum.
Muslims are waging a war against Europe, why should we hand them the key? How does it make sense?
We should help them do that with free supplies.
What are they going to do in Europe anyway?
So they are caught in a war. Too bad! but that is their country, not mine. If they don't defend it, who will?
Why should they be allowed to come to Europe? Because they are small in numbers? Because they are desperate? Because it's closer than the US? None of this is a good reason. These people want to get a livestyle upgrade for free and benefit from social assistance under the guise of political asylum.
Muslims are waging a war against Europe, why should we hand them the key? How does it make sense?
22