This needs an equation? If you set the heat at 70 in the winter, why would you set the AC below that in the summer?
13
All you younguns hang on. When you hit menopause that air conditioning is going to be your friend. I know. It's a lo-o-o-ong wait.
9
I stopped in on a coworker on a 97 degree day in the South Bay. The building AC was laboring and warm. But she was running her space heater. Think men need to bend here by adopting female comfort zone temperatures, men can suck it up for the survival of the species.
5
Is this for real??
At the risk of being lumped in with climate change deniers, I must question the validity of a so-called "scientific" study based on a mere 16 research subjects. That's a margin of sampling error of, what, +/- 25%?
You could conduct a broader "study" at a small dinner party.
I don't doubt the anecdotal conclusion, as we've all seen/experienced the phenomenon, but this hardly rises to the level of legitimate scientific inquiry.
At the risk of being lumped in with climate change deniers, I must question the validity of a so-called "scientific" study based on a mere 16 research subjects. That's a margin of sampling error of, what, +/- 25%?
You could conduct a broader "study" at a small dinner party.
I don't doubt the anecdotal conclusion, as we've all seen/experienced the phenomenon, but this hardly rises to the level of legitimate scientific inquiry.
7
A man's hair keeps his cold clothes from touching his skin and creates an insulating fur layer.
7
The temperatures might be calibrated more towards men's body heat, but it might also be because men generally have to wear long pants, and often a jacket and tie. Women's sartorial choices are much more diverse. Oh, and is it sexist to point out that women have an extra fine layer of fat under the skin (it's why their skin feels softer...) They are actually better protected than men... but are also quite possibly more ready to complain (the stoic man should suffer in silence, didn't ya know?) so although men are perhaps cold too,maybe they speak about it less...
9
Too cold and shivering? Put on more clothes. Too hot and sweating? Too bad.
Colder gives all parties agency. Colder wins.
Colder gives all parties agency. Colder wins.
16
The Bair Hugger warming system for patients in surgery has been implicated in infections, but before it was available, there were multiple problems with patient hypothermia. Admitedly, surgery staff are effectively wearing plastic bags as they work, but cold temps, and hyperactive A/C policies are counter productive.
admittedl
admittedl
2
In times past, I've been obese, and found office temperatures too warm. Nowadays, being down to a normal weight, I usually find office temps a bit on the cool side. So what? I throw on a sweater or sweatshirt; sometimes two. It's very easy to put on enough clothing to make myself too warm. It's no big deal. On the other hand, co-workers who are down to only a lightweight shirt and still think that things are too warm can't strip off any more clothes. The sensible thing to do, to accommodate everyone, is to keep things on the cool side.
16
Hmmm... In my experience, it's usually the reverse. The women are hot and setting the A/C to a lower temp, while I (a male) am freezing. I've literally had my skin turn blue in a few offices full a women before. And it was something like 97 degrees outside on at least one of those occasions.
2
“I was so cold, I was like ‘I’m just going to sit in my car in like 100-degree heat for like five minutes, and bake.’”
"I was Like, in Like, for Like".....if you worked in my office I'd have the air conditioning blasting also.
"I was Like, in Like, for Like".....if you worked in my office I'd have the air conditioning blasting also.
9
It's a ploy to sell cashmere cardigans in the summer.
3
It is freezing in my office and home. Not because of men running the thermostat, but because my (female) office manager and wife are post menopausal, that time when women get hot flashes. I don't dare complain. I just put on a sweater.
7
this headline and article are too generalized...
I am a woman and I love cold air con...if you are cold put on a sweater...people who are hot and can't open windows cannot take off their clothes...
MANY WOMEN LOVE AIR CON...SOME HAVE HOT FLASHES
I am a woman and I love cold air con...if you are cold put on a sweater...people who are hot and can't open windows cannot take off their clothes...
MANY WOMEN LOVE AIR CON...SOME HAVE HOT FLASHES
8
Does "heat indexes" mean temperature?
I think other items also need to be taken into consideration.
1. Electronics
2. Building Insulation
3. Average weight (and age) of the workforce
1. Interesting on how today's office differs from that of the 1960's. Manual typewriters and mimeograph machines were still the norm before evolving to desktop computers and multi-functional copiers.
Electronics changed the way we conduct business. Ever lose power to the office and notice how toasty it gets right away? Its not your body, its the electronics. It's called I Squared R or copper loss.
To quote Wikipedia:
"Copper loss is the term often given to heat produced by electrical currents in the conductors of transformer windings, or other electrical devices and are an undesirable transfer of energy, as are core losses, which result from induced currents in adjacent components."
2. How well insulated is your office? Double/triple paned windows? Are they still single panes with adjustable windows to open to get a "breeze through the office"? Is this relevant? Only from the standpoint of holding in the cooled air so the air conditioner doesn't cycle too often and contributes to the "It's too cold in here." lament.
3. Look at pictures from the 1960's. Count the fat folks. %? Look at a group pic from today and count. %? Which group would put out more heat working in an office (assuming identical tasks for 2015)? We all know the answer.
So, is it just a man/woman thermostat issue? Nah, but only if you want it to be.
1. Electronics
2. Building Insulation
3. Average weight (and age) of the workforce
1. Interesting on how today's office differs from that of the 1960's. Manual typewriters and mimeograph machines were still the norm before evolving to desktop computers and multi-functional copiers.
Electronics changed the way we conduct business. Ever lose power to the office and notice how toasty it gets right away? Its not your body, its the electronics. It's called I Squared R or copper loss.
To quote Wikipedia:
"Copper loss is the term often given to heat produced by electrical currents in the conductors of transformer windings, or other electrical devices and are an undesirable transfer of energy, as are core losses, which result from induced currents in adjacent components."
2. How well insulated is your office? Double/triple paned windows? Are they still single panes with adjustable windows to open to get a "breeze through the office"? Is this relevant? Only from the standpoint of holding in the cooled air so the air conditioner doesn't cycle too often and contributes to the "It's too cold in here." lament.
3. Look at pictures from the 1960's. Count the fat folks. %? Look at a group pic from today and count. %? Which group would put out more heat working in an office (assuming identical tasks for 2015)? We all know the answer.
So, is it just a man/woman thermostat issue? Nah, but only if you want it to be.
5
As a H V A C Service Tech, we are constantly challenged to perform magic, most large commercial buildings , have serious design issues, the temperature controls and mechanical systems, have to well designed and maintained. Too often ,value engineering '' gutting the job '' leaves the end user with an inferior installation.
1
Call me when a man won't get fired for using the equivalent amount of cloth some of the ladies working in offices do.
5
When my foreign customers visit my office building we take bets on how quickly they ask for the AC to be turned down. These are mostly men. They have the same build as American men, but they've been conditioned over time to live in a less cool environment, and find American temperatures to be frigid. So I have no doubt American men can adapt as well.
25
Our descendants will read articles like this and curse us for the insane idiotic fools we are, wasting our precious, limited resources so we can roast in the winter and freeze in the summer. Was the USA really once a great nation, they will ask -- but how could they have been such fools?!
17
I work in an office where it has been so cold that I haven't been able to think because my head is so cold and I haven't been able to type or turn a page because my hands were so cold. When a person uses so much energy trying to keep warm and they can't sit at their desk and do the job they are employed to do, it's not productive and it's definitely not healthy. Most guys in our office wear vests, so it's not just a 'female' thing, but for those who think you can just layer up, when was the last time you read a book outside in freezing temperatures and how long did you last. Instead, why don't you just get a fan or layer down and quit complaining if it's not your ideal temperature. What's going to happen if we turn the temperature up, you get a little drowsy, but you'll still be able to do your job.
15
Temps have to be kept on the cool side to keep the computers from overheating, not just the men.
9
A couple degrees warmer won't make a difference.
9
OK, so this is really all about sexism, right?
I've worked in offices in buildings where there was no control over the AC. I am male (but skinny) and always found it freezing. Meanwhile, my chubby male office mates found it sultry if not stifling.
Of course, we were professionals, so we had to wear suits (usually a funereal color) of a serious fabric (think wool) and buttoned-up long-sleeved shirts with neckties (you can see this was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away from high tech) - just the costume for someone working in the Hanseatic league in the 1500s... and necessary to be taken seriously in the USA around the turn of the century (the latest one).
Yes, there is gender... and metabolism...
But. The women could just as easily be taken seriously in a lightweight outfit with bare arms and legs and a scooping neckline free of strangulation. Maybe these were deemed acceptable because of sexism, or maybe we just weren't appealing enough.
Meanwhile, you could hang meat in the office and everyone seemed to have blue lips except the fatties.
So - out with sexism, and in with weightism. You can do something about your weight and it will be good for you, but not everyone wants to change gender.
But older, fat men make the decisions. In suits, if they're to be taken as authorities. Except in Silicon Valley where people dress like a 10-year-olds to demonstrate they are young enough to understand their marketplace and not ready for the ash heap of history.
I've worked in offices in buildings where there was no control over the AC. I am male (but skinny) and always found it freezing. Meanwhile, my chubby male office mates found it sultry if not stifling.
Of course, we were professionals, so we had to wear suits (usually a funereal color) of a serious fabric (think wool) and buttoned-up long-sleeved shirts with neckties (you can see this was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away from high tech) - just the costume for someone working in the Hanseatic league in the 1500s... and necessary to be taken seriously in the USA around the turn of the century (the latest one).
Yes, there is gender... and metabolism...
But. The women could just as easily be taken seriously in a lightweight outfit with bare arms and legs and a scooping neckline free of strangulation. Maybe these were deemed acceptable because of sexism, or maybe we just weren't appealing enough.
Meanwhile, you could hang meat in the office and everyone seemed to have blue lips except the fatties.
So - out with sexism, and in with weightism. You can do something about your weight and it will be good for you, but not everyone wants to change gender.
But older, fat men make the decisions. In suits, if they're to be taken as authorities. Except in Silicon Valley where people dress like a 10-year-olds to demonstrate they are young enough to understand their marketplace and not ready for the ash heap of history.
8
I am sympathetic -- and especially value the environmental perspective re: energy use; less a/c is a good thing -- but, as a metabolic man, and a hairy one at that... I really do need the a/c. Men cannot take off clothes in these situations; women can (as they describe) put on more clothes (or blankets or snuggies)... even though the balance could stand to move a few degrees higher, it should favor those whose comfort cannot be accommodated in other ways.
3
Men--stop dressing the same, summer and winter. In the summer you can wear linen and seersucker and look perfectly professional. It is ridiculous from the point of view of climate change, expense, efficiency, logic, fairness, and pretty much every other point of view except that of the male managerial class. Please, gentlemen, it's time to enter the 21st century.
9
I always thought it was set for menopausal women. Regardless, it's a ridiculous waste.
1
This has probably already been said in a comment I haven't read, but I bet that MANY of these cold women are dealing with undiagnosed anemia, which I have just recently been diagnosed with - ask for a blood test - taking iron supplements can make you feel human again, AND give you more resistance against those cold office temps.
2
How many more 24, 31, 21 year olds could they interview? Let's see what they have to say in 20 or 30 years--at the same room temperature!
3
Our building always seemed cool but the air temperature (yes, I'm an engineer, had a thermometer on the wall) seemed reasonable, 70F or even a bit more. Turns out wind chill works even at such temperatures: there were several air conditioning vents located directly over me and a couple underfoot, to boot (as it were). Once I redirected the overhead vents and closed the ones underfoot, the temperature was less of a problem.
P.S. - I had a co-worker who always wore a wool hat at work. Why? He was bald. That makes a difference, too.
P.S. - I had a co-worker who always wore a wool hat at work. Why? He was bald. That makes a difference, too.
2
@po: " Turns out wind chill works even at such temperatures: ..."
Good point. Fanger’s thermal comfort model takes air velocity into account:
V air velocity [m/s]
As an engineer, you probably know that velocity is a vector, so the model must be making some assumptions about air flow direction and uniformity. It would be interesting to know if air flow cooling is perceived differently on different parts of the body.
The article has a link to detailed info about the model.
Good point. Fanger’s thermal comfort model takes air velocity into account:
V air velocity [m/s]
As an engineer, you probably know that velocity is a vector, so the model must be making some assumptions about air flow direction and uniformity. It would be interesting to know if air flow cooling is perceived differently on different parts of the body.
The article has a link to detailed info about the model.
1
The article has come to the conclusion that women have been complaining all these years because the optimal temperature was calculated based on male physiology. Since this is true, it was reasonable for them to complain. Due to this bias, the temperature needs to be raised and since it will help with Climate change, men shouldn't complain. I would love for a man to have written this article but interchanged male/female and told the women to shut up as it will help with climate change. I am sure that would have gone really well.
6
Except for large corporate offices I doubt that anyone is using a formula to determine what to set the thermostat too. I'm just glad that now I have to feel guilty about being comfortable now.
The article "Chilly at work? Office formula devised for men" written by Pam Belluck in the main section of the Tuesday August 4th edition of the NY Times was quite interesting from a scientific standpoint.
The scientific formulas and explanations were very logical, and well explained. I agree that there is more energy used in the summer with air conditioning turned up to achieve lower temperatures in the office. Some people may be still be uncomfortable (either too warm or too cold), as one temperature doesn't fit all.
The statement that maintaining a higher temperature in the summer will save energy is true, but if we apply the same logic to the wintertime, when we are using more heat to achieve the same temperatures, the overall cost for the year will balance out. Whether the thermostat is kept at 70 deg F, or 75 deg F, the overall energy consumption for the year will be similar. I am surprised that the article left out the winter aspect of the energy equation.
In fact, in the higher latitudes of the US, the winters probably are the predominant factor in the energy equation!
The scientific formulas and explanations were very logical, and well explained. I agree that there is more energy used in the summer with air conditioning turned up to achieve lower temperatures in the office. Some people may be still be uncomfortable (either too warm or too cold), as one temperature doesn't fit all.
The statement that maintaining a higher temperature in the summer will save energy is true, but if we apply the same logic to the wintertime, when we are using more heat to achieve the same temperatures, the overall cost for the year will balance out. Whether the thermostat is kept at 70 deg F, or 75 deg F, the overall energy consumption for the year will be similar. I am surprised that the article left out the winter aspect of the energy equation.
In fact, in the higher latitudes of the US, the winters probably are the predominant factor in the energy equation!
1
Include constant sinus infections in the list of problems caused from the endless cold air motion directly on the faces of those whose desks are stuck under those ceiling vents. Painful.
6
@JJ: "... those whose desks are stuck under those ceiling vents."
If you are in that situation, have you asked the building manager about installing a deflector? There are various kinds of outlet grilles, so it should be possible to fix the problem. A web search will find examples:
"air outlet grilles for hvac"
If you are in that situation, have you asked the building manager about installing a deflector? There are various kinds of outlet grilles, so it should be possible to fix the problem. A web search will find examples:
"air outlet grilles for hvac"
1
This is just another excuse for women to whine and cry "victim" for the cause of the female pursuit to make society change to suit their chauvinistic wants. Chauvinism, collective victimhood, and misandry are their powers. Women owe virtually all of the opportunities they have in today's evolving society to the infrastructures, sciences, and technologies created by innovative and intrepid men (although they can neither acknowledge or appreciate this), but that doesn't stop their constant whining and denigration of men. Women will always find something to whine about. If we could harness the power of female whining, we would have an unlimited supply of clean, albeit annoying, energy.
Had the sexes been reversed in this study, men too cold, women would have been ballyhooing their superior physicallity over weak males, similar to the sexist "if men had to give birth" nonsense. Of course, female chauvinism is already bolstered by media depictions of men as emotional, bumbling simpletons in order to pander to the female demographic. Man power made girl power possible.
Had the sexes been reversed in this study, men too cold, women would have been ballyhooing their superior physicallity over weak males, similar to the sexist "if men had to give birth" nonsense. Of course, female chauvinism is already bolstered by media depictions of men as emotional, bumbling simpletons in order to pander to the female demographic. Man power made girl power possible.
6
How long were you married?
20
Why is formal business attire for men always a tie and jacket so that only their hands and neck show? Business attire for women can be sleeveless dresses and low necks. It's a big difference. I've noticed this more and more on TV. The men are covered up in 2 layers. The fashion now for women on news media is to have bare arms. This is obviously a trend that women are following.
But men could wear short sleeves and no tie. But what would be the result? Less respect and authority? Perception and habit.
But men could wear short sleeves and no tie. But what would be the result? Less respect and authority? Perception and habit.
1
Real women don't dress the way you see on TV. No low necklines and skinny jeans. Certainly not professional women or women in banks or offices. I've seen sales staff who are a little more daring in their attire. Most offices have dress codes and they request conservative clothing, nothing flashy or inappropriate.
2
@Meredith: "I've noticed this more and more on TV."
"... news media ..."
Could you be more specific? What news shows do you watch? What other shows do you watch?
"... news media ..."
Could you be more specific? What news shows do you watch? What other shows do you watch?
I'd actually rather keep my sweater or my coat on in the office than deal with smelling a room full of dripping, sweaty dudes for 8+ hours/day. The simplest solution is to keep the AC on at the current level and for girls and guys with lower metabolic rates to continue layering up, drinking hot beverages, and taking the occasional break to reheat outdoors.
4
I work in a field dominated by women, and I am a woman. I actually think someone should study personality types and reaction to temperature. Perhaps the reaction to the cold has to do with active versus passive personalities. Maybe not. Put on a sweater and let it go - who wants to be hot at work?
2
This is the kind of ridiculous faux concern that is shooting this country right down the pipes. And then we wonder why, calling from the other side, Trump has traction. Jeez!!!!
2
What a bunch of nonsense. First of all, in a business setting, men wear many more layers of clothing. Women could do that as well. You don't have to wear skimpy, cleavage revealing dresses to work. You could wear a jacket. Also not all women feel the same way about this. Try working in an office where one or more women are going through the change. It's a temperature roller coaster ride. I personally can't sleep if it's hot and I much prefer a cool day to a hot one. I think what really bothers me is how the various stories on this try to frame it as a case of discrimination. Poppycock.
6
Young ladies, wait until you reach "a certain age". You'll be grateful for the AC--I promise!
3
"But Dr. Kingma and his colleague, Wouter van Marken Lichtenbelt, write that one variable in the formula, resting metabolic rate (how fast we generate heat), is based on a 40-year-old man weighing about 154 pounds."
I think the important thing to realize is that this isn't a men vs. women thing. It's about the assumptions we make for calculations.
If in fact most of the workforce are 50 year old women, then that's what you plug in. The workforce now is not only more female, but also older, and fatter. So they should re-calculate based on the stats alone.
That said, in my opinion, the indoor temp should be much closer to the environmental conditions outside with everyone asked to dress accordingly, even if that means men wear shirts and slacks instead of suits, and in lighter materials, and women don't wear pantyhose, or if everyone wore sweaters and wool pants in winter. Which is to say, if the entire country dressed like the West Coast.
"Maybe that is why the formula was based on the sex that has no recourse to being hot while the gender who is cold can always find comfort in "throwing" on a sweater."
I seriously doubt that was the thought process. It was 1962, and WWII vets in their prime dominated the workforce. They actually were in the majority. That's why it was based on them. Mystery solved.
I think the important thing to realize is that this isn't a men vs. women thing. It's about the assumptions we make for calculations.
If in fact most of the workforce are 50 year old women, then that's what you plug in. The workforce now is not only more female, but also older, and fatter. So they should re-calculate based on the stats alone.
That said, in my opinion, the indoor temp should be much closer to the environmental conditions outside with everyone asked to dress accordingly, even if that means men wear shirts and slacks instead of suits, and in lighter materials, and women don't wear pantyhose, or if everyone wore sweaters and wool pants in winter. Which is to say, if the entire country dressed like the West Coast.
"Maybe that is why the formula was based on the sex that has no recourse to being hot while the gender who is cold can always find comfort in "throwing" on a sweater."
I seriously doubt that was the thought process. It was 1962, and WWII vets in their prime dominated the workforce. They actually were in the majority. That's why it was based on them. Mystery solved.
1
I don't think anyone believes this was active gender discrimination. We know why this was done this way, and it made sense at the time. But it has the effect of discriminating against women now, albeit without the intent to do so.
2
@Elizabeth: "If in fact most of the workforce are 50 year old women, then that's what you plug in."
The problem with Fanger’s thermal comfort model is that it doesn't have variables for age and sex.
The problem with Fanger’s thermal comfort model is that it doesn't have variables for age and sex.
Offices should cooled less in the summer and heated less in the winter. Clothing can be adjusted to fit the season, and we should all be striving to use less energy for temperature control, just as we should try to conserve energy in every way possible.
4
I work in a small office. Luckily, the 5 of us seem to be "calibrated' similarly with regards to temperature. We NEVER turn on the air conditioning, and we each have a quiet fan at our desk that we control. Everybody is comfortable.
2
What I don't understand is that many offices are 75F in the winter, and 68F in the summer. For energy efficiency it should be reversed. As a nation, we need to start conserving energy. Change the dress code and reset the thermostats. If you adjust your home thermostat, too, you will acclimate much faster.
Women might be able to adjust their metabolism somewhat with vigorous exercise. If you increase your muscle mass you will raise your metabolism. And for a while after exercising you will also feel much warmer.
Women might be able to adjust their metabolism somewhat with vigorous exercise. If you increase your muscle mass you will raise your metabolism. And for a while after exercising you will also feel much warmer.
I observe in my office its not a gender issue but a fat versus non fat issue. Bigger folks take more a/c to keep them cool, non fat folk do better with less a/c.
3
“I wore a dress once and had to go change,” said Ms. McPherson, who attended college in New Hampshire. While male colleagues wear T-shirts,
Doesn't this suggest an irreconcilable difference in temperature needs? The guys are already wearing t shirts and this women is in winder clothes. There's no middle ground.
Whats up with this article? It suggests "adjusting the formula" instead of raising or lowering the temperature. What will that do besides give a suggesting to raise or lower the temperature. Its the same problem people have in their own house fighting over a thermostat, except in the house I'm sure the women get their preferred temp and the guys bum our in shorts. In the office its the other way around.
I'm guessing most of the problems are from poor air flow, not a bad temperature setting. Right now its cold in this office. We have a terrible HVAC system that also imports humidity so I'm always sticky. 77 is WAY WAY too hot though. I think 72 is about as perfect of a temperature as you can get that could appeal to everyone. Someone will complain. I surely do. Guess what i do to fix the problem of temperature I can't adjust? I strap on a sack and deal with it. Some days I have to take my shoes off for a little bit. Some days I have to run a fan, some days I have to run a space heater. Some days I wear a jacket, and some days I wish I brought a jacket and am just cold all day.
At least you're not in the heat dripping sweat or in the cold losing fingers.
Doesn't this suggest an irreconcilable difference in temperature needs? The guys are already wearing t shirts and this women is in winder clothes. There's no middle ground.
Whats up with this article? It suggests "adjusting the formula" instead of raising or lowering the temperature. What will that do besides give a suggesting to raise or lower the temperature. Its the same problem people have in their own house fighting over a thermostat, except in the house I'm sure the women get their preferred temp and the guys bum our in shorts. In the office its the other way around.
I'm guessing most of the problems are from poor air flow, not a bad temperature setting. Right now its cold in this office. We have a terrible HVAC system that also imports humidity so I'm always sticky. 77 is WAY WAY too hot though. I think 72 is about as perfect of a temperature as you can get that could appeal to everyone. Someone will complain. I surely do. Guess what i do to fix the problem of temperature I can't adjust? I strap on a sack and deal with it. Some days I have to take my shoes off for a little bit. Some days I have to run a fan, some days I have to run a space heater. Some days I wear a jacket, and some days I wish I brought a jacket and am just cold all day.
At least you're not in the heat dripping sweat or in the cold losing fingers.
1
This is great dialogue but the sensible temperature in a space in an office has nothing to do with gender. Leaving air from the air handler is distributed variously through the floor(s). Setting this temperature affects overall temperatures but no gender specific settings are possible. Most temperature settings are by season and have suggested limits to conserve energy.e.g 78 degrees in the summer. If women feel colder at 78 degrees than men it is biological I'd say not temperature settings that favor men.
There's no way American offices are set to 78 degrees in the summer. That would be sweltering.
Unfortunately, women can't have their way on this for the simple reason that a person can always dress warmer, but a person can dress cooler only to a point. Beyond that, they are unprofessionally naked. So unless you want naked men walking around in rooms made comfortable for women, the formula for room comfort will have to remain male-centric, or rather, focused on the group that produces the most internal heat.
6
Ahem, if they want to wear more skin-baring to distract the men, so be it, who is complaining!!
2
I feel so vindicated. Growing up, this was the conversation in my house:
Me (a girl): I'm cold.
Dad: No you're not. It's __ degrees in this house.
Me: Well I guess that's the...
Dad: ...end of the discussion. Exactly. Thank-you.
Me (a girl): I'm cold.
Dad: No you're not. It's __ degrees in this house.
Me: Well I guess that's the...
Dad: ...end of the discussion. Exactly. Thank-you.
4
If you set it at 69F , run a dehumidifier and let me shorts and a T-shirt. I will gladly comply.
3
Try wearing more clothes. There is no option for someone who is too hot but if you are cold you can wear more clothes and stop complaining.
8
I don't see why this is a big deal. In my office, there happens to be more women than men and it's always 75 degrees inside. I'm always hot and have to wear a suit, so I've been keeping a rather strong fan in my office for years.
Not once did I blame it on gender bias or discrimination. Sometimes you can't have everything you want in life and you might have to adjust accordingly. If you don't like the temperature, you might have to deal with it.
Not once did I blame it on gender bias or discrimination. Sometimes you can't have everything you want in life and you might have to adjust accordingly. If you don't like the temperature, you might have to deal with it.
8
@Michael: "I'm always hot and have to wear a suit, ..."
Why do you "have to wear a suit"? Do you have to meet clients, customers, or constituents throughout the day?
Why do you "have to wear a suit"? Do you have to meet clients, customers, or constituents throughout the day?
1
I'm not sure how "new" this is. REI has been selling sleeping bags that are rated to different temperatures depending on whether you are a male or female for a while now....
All the same, I'm all for more publicity on the topic if it will get places to raise the set point of their AC temperatures.
All the same, I'm all for more publicity on the topic if it will get places to raise the set point of their AC temperatures.
2
So having an office temperature that is comfortable for men but not for women (who can add more clothing to offset part of the discomfort) is gender discrimination? But setting office temperatures at levels where most females are comfortable, but most men are not is not gender discrimination?
Even though men cannot take off clothing as readily as women can put more on?
Even though men cannot take off clothing as readily as women can put more on?
4
Exactly, just try to tell you your boss that you are going to not wear a suit.
1
They're not claiming that the temp should be suited for the average woman over the average men. They're saying that the overall temp should consider all people in the building rather than just one gender over another.
4
In all fairness you have to factor in the age of the women also as post menopausal women are subject to hot flashes as well as being warmer generally than men. My wife keeps our home so cold I wear fleece in our living room in July.
They should do a new Fanger thermal comfort equation using women over 50 who are deep into menopause...
You will see the men putting on cardigans.
You will see the men putting on cardigans.
3
I used to take extra clothing to work for summer air conditioning. Even leggings and socks. I wore pants rather than dresses because of the chill. Some areas were freezing while other areas were hot because of the floor-to-ceiling windows which faced south and west. The windows did not block UV rays and they had to put blocking film to reduce the greenhouse effect. None of the windows opened so there was no direct fresh air. I ran a small oscillating fan to circulate the air. Without AC and venting it would have been intolerable.
@ibivi: "The windows did not block UV rays and they had to put blocking film to reduce the greenhouse effect."
Do you know when the building was constructed?
Do you know when the building was constructed?
It was built for them. I helped them move in. It was finished in 1985.
1
The divide in this case is not based on gender - it's based on weight. The overweight employees are warm regardless of the temperature in the office. The rest of us must suffer with extra clothes and space heaters. I'm a man who dresses in seasonal appropriate clothing. If I had fifty extra pounds of insulating fat, I doubt that I would spend the summer shivering. Take an informal survey in your office and see if this isn't true. When we complain we're treated with the facile response of so many commenters - wear a sweater. Here's a facile response in return - lose some weight!
7
I'm not sure that is true. I would say I'm an overweight female, but I'm constantly cold even compared to my male counterparts who are not overweight.
2
A very cold response, indeed, from Mr. Very Cold.
How about this? Man up and quit your whining. You allude to your trim physique, so why not take a few laps around the office...that will warm you right up.
How about this? Man up and quit your whining. You allude to your trim physique, so why not take a few laps around the office...that will warm you right up.
3
Very Cold: @"The divide in this case is not based on gender ..."
The article lists several factors, including sex, weight, and age: "For example, people who weigh more get warmer faster, and older people have slower metabolic rates, the study reported."
And if you are cold, gain some weight. :-)
The article lists several factors, including sex, weight, and age: "For example, people who weigh more get warmer faster, and older people have slower metabolic rates, the study reported."
And if you are cold, gain some weight. :-)
The aspect of AC that has always baffled me is how people have managed to get so wussy and intolerant of summer temperatures, even in not-sweltering parts of the country, that we need to refrigerate the interiors of our buildings to such an extreme.
When my mom was growing up in the South, everyone had attic fans and screened sleeping porches and they survived the summer just fine. People managed to acclimate. Being unused to excessive AC (my office sits at a totally reasonable 75, and my high-ceilinged century-old apartment was built long before AC existed and is therefore designed to stay cool on its own), I can't even handle interiors in the South without long pants, closed-toed shoes, and a sweater. When it's 100+ and humid outside, a less humid 80-degree interior feels fantastic, but dropping down to 67 is a huge shock to your system and feels miserable. So yeah, lots of childhood memories of visiting family in the South in the summer involve being cold. The irony.
I'd love to see a movement towards allowing ourselves to acclimate to our surroundings and embrace the comfort of relative differences in temperature based on the weather outside instead of setting the office thermostat to Hoth because we can.
When my mom was growing up in the South, everyone had attic fans and screened sleeping porches and they survived the summer just fine. People managed to acclimate. Being unused to excessive AC (my office sits at a totally reasonable 75, and my high-ceilinged century-old apartment was built long before AC existed and is therefore designed to stay cool on its own), I can't even handle interiors in the South without long pants, closed-toed shoes, and a sweater. When it's 100+ and humid outside, a less humid 80-degree interior feels fantastic, but dropping down to 67 is a huge shock to your system and feels miserable. So yeah, lots of childhood memories of visiting family in the South in the summer involve being cold. The irony.
I'd love to see a movement towards allowing ourselves to acclimate to our surroundings and embrace the comfort of relative differences in temperature based on the weather outside instead of setting the office thermostat to Hoth because we can.
15
hmmm, everything there's study which points out that "men earn more than women.... blah blah" I usually which category of men the study focused on. Are the men referred to here includes or included African_American males or just Caucasian males only? This office design argument that it was done to suit men is also probably bogus because the offices were designed for white males. Black males were not considered part of the design. So NYT please I guess we should try to be more specific. Being more specific wouldn't vilify the white male, the white male just has to accept that part of the correctness. It is all their fault.
1
"PMV = [0.303e-0.036M + 0.028]{(M – W) – 3.96E-8ƒcl[(tcl + 273)4 – (tr + 273)4] – ƒclhc(tcl – ta) – 3.05[5.73 – 0.007(M – W) – pa] – 0.42[(M – W) – 58.15] – 0.0173M(5.87 – pa) – 0.0014M(34 – ta)}"
The temperature here is fine, but now I have a headache.
The temperature here is fine, but now I have a headache.
2
The Times didn't define any of the variables, so including that formula is useless. The article has a link to a detailed explanation that says: "The Predicted Mean Vote (PMV) refers to a thermal scale that runs from Cold (-3) to Hot (+3) ...".
Can the frigid Molly utter a sentence without using the word, 'like?'
Wool pants for the cold folks and no jackets for the men and over-dressed women. Enough already!
Wool pants for the cold folks and no jackets for the men and over-dressed women. Enough already!
3
Can you stop regulating how women choose to speak?
3
Pam Belluck’s article on the challenge of creating a universally comfortable climate in offices addresses several reasons for diverse perceptions of comfort in the workplace. In seeking to explain why women may be more sensitive to cold than men, she missed an important medical reason for discomfort due to cold, particularly among women; a little-known but widespread autoimmune condition called Raynaud’s Phenomenon.
Raynaud’s is an exaggerated and often painful sensitivity to cold that affects 5% to 10% of Americans. Only one out of five sufferers seeks treatment, and most don’t know that their symptoms could be a sign of another serious disease such as scleroderma or lupus. Women are 9 times more likely than men to be affected by Raynaud’s, and some researchers estimate that as many as 20% of women in their childbearing years are affected.
The author states that cold discomfort can have a negative effect on productivity. But more important, those who suffer from Raynaud’s in frigid environments can be risking potential vascular damage. Employers should severe cold discomfort seriously – it is a significant health issue for some people.
Raynaud’s is an exaggerated and often painful sensitivity to cold that affects 5% to 10% of Americans. Only one out of five sufferers seeks treatment, and most don’t know that their symptoms could be a sign of another serious disease such as scleroderma or lupus. Women are 9 times more likely than men to be affected by Raynaud’s, and some researchers estimate that as many as 20% of women in their childbearing years are affected.
The author states that cold discomfort can have a negative effect on productivity. But more important, those who suffer from Raynaud’s in frigid environments can be risking potential vascular damage. Employers should severe cold discomfort seriously – it is a significant health issue for some people.
3
The biggest complaint in every office building is temperature. I'm a male and the last cube farm I worked in was so cold I needed a space heater. Until cube farms are equipped with individual environmental controls, this will always be a problem. Of course the chance of that happening is slim and none. I also got a kick of how the thermal formula uses a 40-year old male that weighs 154-pounds. When was the last time you saw average men weigh that? Note to Molly Mahannah, Valley Girl speak is 'like' so '80's.
2
we should rewrite standards for men's office clothes for the benefit of the planet. everyone has to step outside sooner or later. everyone would be more comfortable in lighter clothing then.
6
Listen. There's no such thing as a comfortable temperature for women. I worked in offices over my life filled with women who fought all day long that it was too hot or too cold.
Women just don't have thermostats. Why else would you see the purely female phenomenon of a woman walking down the street wearing a heavy sweater and shorts? As if there was a heat wave three feet off the ground and a cold wave above it?
My wife and I installed refrigerated air in our home last year because evaporative cooling wasn't cooling the house the way she wanted in the summers. So now she walks around the house wearing a blanket.
And men are stupid?
Women just don't have thermostats. Why else would you see the purely female phenomenon of a woman walking down the street wearing a heavy sweater and shorts? As if there was a heat wave three feet off the ground and a cold wave above it?
My wife and I installed refrigerated air in our home last year because evaporative cooling wasn't cooling the house the way she wanted in the summers. So now she walks around the house wearing a blanket.
And men are stupid?
I've seen males, of varying ages, walking around outside during winter, shorts, no boots, no coat. Men in business attire, walking in slush and snow - no boots.
I'm just wondering about Tim Mahoney's last sentence in his post "And men are stupid?" It follows a paragraph about his wife - is Mr. Mahoney stating that his wife is stupid?
I'm just wondering about Tim Mahoney's last sentence in his post "And men are stupid?" It follows a paragraph about his wife - is Mr. Mahoney stating that his wife is stupid?
7
Just set the thermostat to 70 degrees and be done with it. If you (men or women) can't dress professionally and be comfortable at that temperature, then either go see a physician, work from home, or find a different line of work. In a large office space, it's literally impossible to set a temperature that will make everyone happy; it's a fools' errand to think that you can set a temperature that both a 100 lb woman and a 300 lb man will find agreeable.
2
It's interesting to learn that office temperatures are partly based on a man's heat generation. However, it's even more cool when you put together why. Because when the formula was created there weren't any women working in office buildings. So of course the formula was based off of an average working man!
It's funny that the offices have been using the same formula for years and didn't even know part of it was gender biased. Now everyone knows that women aren't just complaining, it's actually science!
It's funny that the offices have been using the same formula for years and didn't even know part of it was gender biased. Now everyone knows that women aren't just complaining, it's actually science!
3
I last worked at an office with 3 males, and one lady in her late 50's.
She ruled the temperature. She would call in the building manager and yell that it was too hot, or it was too cold. In winter, in mid of a snowy, windy winter day, she would open the window, and we all froze. Then she'd call the building, and the office was at 80, and we'd fall asleep in that heat.
This went on until I left, not once did we have a say on office comfort, HR told us it was her right to be comfortable so we could not say anything about it.
It's not a male problem, it's a getting along problem.
She ruled the temperature. She would call in the building manager and yell that it was too hot, or it was too cold. In winter, in mid of a snowy, windy winter day, she would open the window, and we all froze. Then she'd call the building, and the office was at 80, and we'd fall asleep in that heat.
This went on until I left, not once did we have a say on office comfort, HR told us it was her right to be comfortable so we could not say anything about it.
It's not a male problem, it's a getting along problem.
Wow, this study has to be deeply flawed, women at my business office must always be cold!! where we have this problem, the temp was originally set at 72, the following summer the temp was raised to 78 without telling anybody, we continued to have complaints from the women of it being to cold. The guys didn`t mind it either way. Oh yes, the temp is still at 78
Women need to stop showing up to work half-naked. If a man showed up showing as much skin as women do, he would be told to go home and change. Put some clothes on and you won't be so freakin' cold.
2
Or, raise the temperature and men can alter the way they dress! See how that works both ways?
4
I'm so confused that men seem to be ignorant of summer weight clothing. You could stick with boring poplin or chambray, or branch out with seersucker and madras. The Indians and Persians invented that stuff for a reason (take a look at the summer temperatures in Iran!).
16
they should have included older women in the study as well. Women in menopause seem to run hotter than everyone else. our building is old so there is no consistency anyway.
2
The idea that men should get hot because women wear skimpy clothes has some merit I guess, but nobody says women need dress in sleeveless blouses, skirts, and open-toed shoes. OTOH, the idea of men wearing suits and ties is pretty ridiculous in this day and age.
Assuming both sexes dressed more appropriately for the season, it's a lot easier to put on a sweater if I'm cold than it is to stop sweating just because I want to. Moreover, heat tends to make people drowsy as well.
Assuming both sexes dressed more appropriately for the season, it's a lot easier to put on a sweater if I'm cold than it is to stop sweating just because I want to. Moreover, heat tends to make people drowsy as well.
2
This was the worst when I lived in TX. A/C practically year-round. I got used to wearing wool suits, hosiery, etc. even in summer. One thing I have always wondered: how do those starlets get by in strapless gowns and open-toe heels at all the red carpet events, when the men are covered in long sleeved shirts, long sleeved jackets, long pants, socks and heavy shoes?
1
My last job was in a college campus office building where I froze every day in the summer time. I and many other people kept heaters under our desks and had them on every day in the summer to keep warm.
3
Air conditioning systems have markedly improved since the 1960s and male dress in an office environment relative to a female may very well have a much larger effect. Many men are also much heavier than they were 40 years ago and weight is a major factor as are certain medications. Men also tend to be more stoic when it comes to these situations than females.
2
Are they more stoic, or do they have no reason to complain because the environment is attuned to their needs?
2
As a male teacher in a private school, I was required to wear the requisite button shirt & tie, but also a suit jacket or blazer, even within my classroom. Women teachers wore a wide variety of outfits from the very professional looking pantsuits to things I would classify as pajamas. Fortunately, our rooms were independently regulated, and finally the administrators had to pick up their eyeballs from the pavement when they saw some female outfits. I won't even get into the gender bias in allowed student dress.
2
I am personally offended that people think that all women dress scandalously during the summer months and that is the problem... I am a woman that works but keeps my clothing modest no matter the time of the year. I never have bare arms or low-cut tops and still find myself shivering in the office. In addition, many of them men in my office come in shorts and flip-flops when the weather is warmer and tend to not find a problem with the temperature.
There is often a battle over the thermostat in our office that is always won by our CEO. Because of this, my lips and fingers are often blue and purple during the work hours, and I can feel myself become less effective as the day wears on. I have also found evidence to support the fact that you tend to become more sick in colder environments, and that would explain the amount of sickness going around my office even when the temperatures outside are in the 90's or higher.
I don't think that this article was meant as a dis or to start an argument. It is just pointing out that there is scientific evidence to support the fact that women tend to be chilly at work. I actually enjoyed the article and finding out that I'm not the only one shivering - maybe it'll bring change and maybe it won't - we just need to figure out how to make it work for our personal work environments.
Thanks for the article!!
There is often a battle over the thermostat in our office that is always won by our CEO. Because of this, my lips and fingers are often blue and purple during the work hours, and I can feel myself become less effective as the day wears on. I have also found evidence to support the fact that you tend to become more sick in colder environments, and that would explain the amount of sickness going around my office even when the temperatures outside are in the 90's or higher.
I don't think that this article was meant as a dis or to start an argument. It is just pointing out that there is scientific evidence to support the fact that women tend to be chilly at work. I actually enjoyed the article and finding out that I'm not the only one shivering - maybe it'll bring change and maybe it won't - we just need to figure out how to make it work for our personal work environments.
Thanks for the article!!
9
In my opinion, I wish people would know how simply deal with temperatures. In my case, I work in an office that happens to have more women than men. Accordingly the temperature is set at 75 degrees year-round. I personally hate it and I'm always hot, but I don't blame gender discrimination or a supposed gender bias. I simply keep a fan at work to keep me cool. I don't have a choice unfortunately and must wear a suit.
Likewise in a place that may be chillier and there's more men than women, I don't think it's unreasonable to have it cooler if the majority of workers desire it.
Likewise in a place that may be chillier and there's more men than women, I don't think it's unreasonable to have it cooler if the majority of workers desire it.
Men should change their office dress codes to go with the season. A clothing designer could come up with a great way for men to look professional while
feeling comfortable in the office. Compromise with the blue-fingered blanketed up women. Sounds like a win-win!
feeling comfortable in the office. Compromise with the blue-fingered blanketed up women. Sounds like a win-win!
5
I blame the fashion industry for popularizing tight suits. It used to be decades ago that suits had just enough space that you could look professional and classy without looking sloppy and have it properly-fitted.
Now you can barely bend over, sit, or reach for something without ruining the look of your suit. Most of us men aren't fashion models and those types of suits aren't compatible with the common man.
Now you can barely bend over, sit, or reach for something without ruining the look of your suit. Most of us men aren't fashion models and those types of suits aren't compatible with the common man.
1
Given that it is unreasonable to expect to find a perfect temperature that everyone can agree on, I figure it's better to err on the side of more clothing, not less. In general it's simply not appropriate (especially for men) to strip down beyond a point, but it is never unacceptable to wear a sweater or a vest.
3
I never thought of the office "chill" as a gender issue. Men and women both complain about the cold in my office (although perhaps the women do complain more.) I thought the temperature was kept cold and de-humidified primarily to protect the computer equipment.
3
The AC at home is also set higher than I would like, but its much easier for me to put on a sweater than for my husband to stop sweating.
4
I'm a woman who loves air conditioning, but not set to 70. One function it serves is humidity control. Another factor is offices that are reconfigured, but air flow is not taken into account. My current office is in an area that started out as a large open space and was carved into smaller offices. Some of them have 2-foot square vents, and mine, which is on a south wall will a narrow gunport window, has a 10x6 vent, like you'd have in your house. If someone shuts the circulation fan off, in the summer I roast, and in the winter I freeze.
2
My bet is this research turns out to be phony. I've never seen women wearing sweaters or blankets in an office during the summer. The real goal of this paper is to convince people to cut back on air conditioning for the benefit of "climate change". Why don't they just come out and say that instead? Besides, with Obama's shift to clean energy, why would cutting back on air conditioning be necessary.
2
The crazy low temperatures in many office environments isn't so much a result of men, as...ahem..."well-insulated" American men. 154 lb may be still be the average weight for a European or Asian male, but the average American male now weighs close to 200 lbs. So it's not just woman who are freezing in these offices (though they certainly have it the worst), it's also thinner/fitter men, who like wearing t-shirts in the summer. However, I will say that if I had to choose between a cold and a hot office (which makes people sleepy), then I would reluctantly pick the cold one. But the best solution is just to turn down the A/C a bit, and encourage men to wear more casual, lighter clothing in the summer...and maybe cut back on the stuffed-crust pizza.
3
I feel like the kid who told the Emperor he was wearing no clothes for saying this, but has anybody considered that the average office-wear for women is actually very skimpy? I love dresses and skirts on women, but when they wear them in cold temperatures and then tell me that their panty-hose is a layer of warm protection I've never once believed them. Men at offices have to wear t-shirts to protect them from sweating, they wear long tightly knit pants and warm socks. Women wear skirts, with no socks and a light shirt that often have a few buttons strategically unbuttoned. I'm being real, not sexist. I say use your power ladies, but accept that YOU ARE GOING TO BE COLD and stop trying to blame this on a lower metabolic rate. Hell, most women have higher metabolisms than men, so what is Kingma suggesting - women who work in offices are biologically different?
When I was working I would take note that I was one of the few men in Penn Station still wearing a suit during the summer. Then I would go to the office and put on a wool sweater. Fashions have already changed for most office workers, despite the continuing excessive air conditioning. What with the need to reduce carbon emissions, the over use of a nonrenewable energy resource, power brownouts during peak demand times, the money wasted on energy bills, summer colds brought on by going from the hot outside to cold, humid inside air, and the discomfort of most women AND men, it's absurd that the practice continues. Indoor temperature should not be the same all year. During the summer we adjust to the heat. Indoor temperatures should be warmer than they are in the winter, both for comfort and energy conservation. For me, 75 degrees is cool enough in July and August but in January, 66 or 67 is better. If I do have to put on a sweater indoors I would rather do it in the winter when it makes sense.
5
Once I heard an ideal thermostat for majority of women should have two settings: too hot and too cold...
2
I worked in a retail establishment for almost a decade and the thermostat was controlled by two tall skinny women that wanted it set at 74. I wasn't even menopausal yet and would break out in a sweat everyday cursing the "controllers" under my breath. Bring on the ac.
3
So they change the formula, which in turn will raise the temperature in the office.
As it stands now, some women complain and put sweaters and other items on. After they raise temperature, what happens when the guys are uncomfortable hot? Will they get upset if we start taking things off to get cool?
As it stands now, some women complain and put sweaters and other items on. After they raise temperature, what happens when the guys are uncomfortable hot? Will they get upset if we start taking things off to get cool?
2
Temperatures set not just for men but for men in heavy suits originally designed for England and Scotland.
4
SOME LIKE IT HOT There's an inexpensive way to accommodate both women and men in cooling. Turn the temperature up so that it's comfortable for women and give the men small quiet high-efficiency fans. The fans will circulate the air more quickly around the men's bodies, thereby reducing the temperature and evaporating moisture more quickly. Also, since there are casual Fridays, companies can start policies of dress-down summers, when men would be encouraged to wear Tees, shorts and sandals to work. Get with it guys! It's all about shrinking your carbon footprint. And helping female coworkers to feel more comfortable in the office. That's a win-win deal!
6
Who at nytimes chooses the "NYT picks," because today's choice for the top comment is ridiculous?
The first pick directs women to stop complaining... So, you publish an article showing yet another form of systematic discrimination in the workplace (however minor), which, in addition, is bad for the environment. and you think the _most_ important comment is to remind women to stop whining?
So to the women out there: Get paid less then your male coworkers? No maternity leave? Passed over for promotion? Sexually harassed? Fine, we'll admit it- you're not crazy, it's real. Now shut up. We're not changing anything and your face looks so ugly when you're mad.
The first pick directs women to stop complaining... So, you publish an article showing yet another form of systematic discrimination in the workplace (however minor), which, in addition, is bad for the environment. and you think the _most_ important comment is to remind women to stop whining?
So to the women out there: Get paid less then your male coworkers? No maternity leave? Passed over for promotion? Sexually harassed? Fine, we'll admit it- you're not crazy, it's real. Now shut up. We're not changing anything and your face looks so ugly when you're mad.
8
Well, I'm very much a man, and without a space heater operating especially in the summer, I would feel too cold--to the point of not being able to comfortably use my hands, and feel somewhat depressed. I will admit to not having much body fat, and I am not particularly overly muscular either, but I have no medical or metabolic conditions--I have normal thyroid hormone levels. To save money and protect the environment, please raise the temperature!!
34
I am a male working in a state university office which is eternally too cold. What clothes can't fix are cold hands -- painful and unhealthy. I finally gave up and now fight the air conditioning with a space heater, as so many others do.
6
Women should wear suits and men should wear dresses with bare shoulders! Kidding, but, wearing different layers of insulation to bring all to a common level of hear tolerance does seem to be the answer.
1
I have a vivid memory from my undergrad days at the University of Arizona of an evening class one summer (where days are routinely in the 100s). The A/C in our building was cranked down low enough that a young woman sitting behind me shivered to the point that her teeth chattered. Walking outside after class into the 95 degree evening brought considerable relief.
1
Most interesting to me is that a 1960's 40-yr-old man was assumed to weigh 154.
I'd guess you'd have to add 25 to that number today.
Which would mean that the office would be even colder, were they to adjust for today's 40-yr-old male.
And the women would be even colder.
I'd guess you'd have to add 25 to that number today.
Which would mean that the office would be even colder, were they to adjust for today's 40-yr-old male.
And the women would be even colder.
1
I'm sorry, if you are freezing in an office and your fingers are turning blue, that's bad office HVAC design and not sexist temperature control..
3
One of the nicest things about being a retired IT guy is that I no longer have to sweat when I sit in front of my computer.
I kept a small electric fan in every single cubicle I ever worked in... and sometimes that cubicle would be across the aisle from a woman whose electrical appliance was a space heater.
Recently I saw an article that said that the number two reason that women start their own business is so that they can control the thermostat. I believed it.
I kept a small electric fan in every single cubicle I ever worked in... and sometimes that cubicle would be across the aisle from a woman whose electrical appliance was a space heater.
Recently I saw an article that said that the number two reason that women start their own business is so that they can control the thermostat. I believed it.
5
The appearance of this article is an interesting coincidence -- I just bought a space heater for my office last week. I'm sick of having blue fingernails all summer. There's simply no reason for this excessive AC in Buffalo, where the humidity is low and the temperatures rarely crack 90 degrees.
7
This is a huge problem in Florida. We struggle with heat settings in our household because I think 75 degrees indoors with the fans running is cold and will be wearing long pants and a long sleeved sweater, so I'd be perfectly comfortable in my seasonless wool suit, but in the same conditions my male partner is comfortable in shorts and no shirt. He just subjectively perceives any given temperature to be much hotter than I do, and for the same type of dress there is a 4 to 6 degree F difference in the temperature at which we are comfortable. Our compromise solution is to set a temperature where we are equally dis-satisfied in opposite directions: he's a little too hot, and I'm a little too cold.
Frankly, I think the people talking about dress codes are missing the point, because even when people dress informally there are big differences in how temperature is perceived. Adopt formal dress codes or don't, and I'm sure there are reasons on both sides, but either way the problem will persist. Surely the answer is to adjust the overall office temperature to the mean of what the employees would like and then use directional fans for those who want it cooler?
Frankly, I think the people talking about dress codes are missing the point, because even when people dress informally there are big differences in how temperature is perceived. Adopt formal dress codes or don't, and I'm sure there are reasons on both sides, but either way the problem will persist. Surely the answer is to adjust the overall office temperature to the mean of what the employees would like and then use directional fans for those who want it cooler?
3
I worked in an office where the thermostat was locked behind a plastic cover. Fortunately, we quickly learned that a bent paper clip was excellent for picking the small lock. Another office kept the thermostat at 69 in summer and I was surrounded by women in menopause. So I would remove my shoes and tiptoe over to the thermostat - sometimes getting away with bumping it up to 74 in summer. But just sometimes, other times I would get caught and then have to slink back to my desk to put on my ugly sweater.
1
One of my biggest complaints is being cold in the summer, and I am a guy. It's sizzling in central North Carolina in the summer, but many offices and public transit are too cold for my preferences. An exception is conference and meeting rooms. 10+ humans breathing in a closed room that is warm leads to dozing and inattention.
3
Every time I travel to the US, I have to wear a jacket or a sweater to go inside the buildings. On these days in which we need to start thinking as a whole, to preserve and take care of the planet, we need not to waste energy and resources. Its not about a percentage of the population being comfort, its about not wasting, and much more when is not even for the benefit of everyone and is absolutely not a need. I hope people starts realizing that a less consumptive attitude is for the survival of our kids and grandkids.
6
it's not a man vs woman thing and this sort of identity politics- this adversarial pitting one group against another is the main reason i frequently consider not reading the NY times anymore. It's stressful to read and upsetting.
Yes I am freezing in my office. But there are plenty of fat women and older women who are not. Turning down the AC should happen for the planet's sake. Whoever's in charge at One liberty plaza, NY NY turn it down please it's absolutely freezing in there. for the love of the Earth. Thanks.
Yes I am freezing in my office. But there are plenty of fat women and older women who are not. Turning down the AC should happen for the planet's sake. Whoever's in charge at One liberty plaza, NY NY turn it down please it's absolutely freezing in there. for the love of the Earth. Thanks.
8
Air conditioners raise the outdoor temperature. They use electricity, often coal based. These are things to consider besides cost, creature comfort, and style. One World anyone?
7
One can always get warmer by adding layers. At 75 degrees, my only option for comfort would be stripping and I'd still be sweating.
5
Male here; We are freezing too.
7
I'm a woman and a native Houstonian. Here in Houston, it's actually possible to use both the air conditioner AND the central heat in the same day, although that's normally in November. At eight o'clock last night it was still 81 degrees with something like 70% humidity.
I LOVE air conditioning.
Too cold at work? Bring a sweater.
I LOVE air conditioning.
Too cold at work? Bring a sweater.
21
Sounds like the study was done on women in their 20's. Post-menopausal women often need cooler offices than pre-menopausal women. Personal environmental modules, along with keeping a sweater and lighter clothing in the office, seem to be an answer.
1
I'm writing this from Miami, with a space heater at my feet, a shawl draped over my shoulders and another on my legs, while in a LEED Gold certified building that contains (based on who's in the elevator) mostly women. I know I'm not the only one with a space heater, since I bought one for my assistant, too. We share a single office, and it's so cold we need two space heaters plus shawls!! RIDICULOUS waste of energy. Did I mention I'm in Miami and it's August? I wear my hair down most of the time to keep my neck warm! And the moment I step outside, the 88 degree weather is a temporary relief.
8
@mlm: "We share a single office, ..."
"... based on who's in the elevator ..."
Are you leasing your office? If so, have you complained to your landlord?
"... based on who's in the elevator ..."
Are you leasing your office? If so, have you complained to your landlord?
The young, heavily voluptuous colleague next to me is never cold. All the older women bring multiple shawls and blankets. The conundrum is eternal.
But the forced air vent shooting icy air down on our (brand new) high-tech work space is extremely infuriating. Even the folks who aren't cold want to get out of its path. We have to push all the desks to the edge of the room to get out of the draft.
I bet the high fallutin' architect who designed our college learning center does not have one of those vents directly over his desk.
But the forced air vent shooting icy air down on our (brand new) high-tech work space is extremely infuriating. Even the folks who aren't cold want to get out of its path. We have to push all the desks to the edge of the room to get out of the draft.
I bet the high fallutin' architect who designed our college learning center does not have one of those vents directly over his desk.
2
@ALG: "... the forced air vent shooting icy air down on our (brand new) high-tech work space ..."
What type of grill is at the outlet? If it has moveable vanes, they may need to be adjusted. If it is linear, it should be replaced. Do you know who manages the building?
Basic Refrigeration and Air Conditioning
https://books.google.com/books?id=7CHZAgAAQBAJ
(see page 346 re outlet grills)
What type of grill is at the outlet? If it has moveable vanes, they may need to be adjusted. If it is linear, it should be replaced. Do you know who manages the building?
Basic Refrigeration and Air Conditioning
https://books.google.com/books?id=7CHZAgAAQBAJ
(see page 346 re outlet grills)
1
Seriously, doesn't anybody consider the stupid dress codes for men to be a large part of the problem? Do ties, jackets, long sleeve shirts, socks, closed shoes, and long wool blend pants really make men more competent and productive? Let's try judging people by the quality of their work and relax with the appearance criteria. Even military uniform requirements adjust for the changing seasons.
4
We are told that the AC is kept where it is because the men are wearing suits and need to cool down. Um, I can count on one hand (and still have fingers left over) the men who are wearing suits. The rest are dressed extremely casually with some looking as though it is "Take Trash to the Dump" day or "Be a Werewolf" day so the argument about men in suits has sailed.
4
This is a ridiculous argument. As a woman who prefers to be a little chilly rather than too warm I say "Put a sweater on". I know many women facing menopause, folks who are overweight, and have friends with medical conditions that raise their body temp; these people cannot remove their clothing in the office, or the bank, or school, or church building to get comfortable whereas the cold can add additional layers. Get a life people and put a sweater on it!
4
Men, take off that undershirt, that tie, those sox, that jacket, etc., Then again, they'd look like it was casual Friday. It is a dilemma. Women dress to show the most flesh, and men dress to hide it all. That's just the way it seems, even outdoors. Maybe women could wear more clothes and men a bit less. But, even with that change, men have higher hematocrit levels than women. That means, more iron in their blood. They're more hot-blooded than women, which might also translate into more heart problems. Just more changes in the physiology of the sexes. This heat/cold issue just might not be a solvable one.
2
I am male. I completely agree with the conclusions of this article. It's logical, ankes total sense to me. I have worked next to women in a relatively small office; not the wretched, cubicle type, but one with a very long desk (we built everything ourselves), and wide open space. In the summer, the women were usually colder than the men. I think the thermostats should be set so the women are warmer, and we have a smaller carbon footprint. This is in lower Manhattan. I grew up in Louisiana, so I know a thing or two about heat and humidity. Most people in the city here have no idea what "hot" means. I have done very hard physical labor in Louisiana. I worked with my shirt off always. I am caucasian, but my back was black. It is devastating how hot it can be. I am 6'2". When I was doing this, I weighed about 170 pounds. It was so hot and humid, I would lose about 7 pounds a day in "water weight", as we called it. I drank a gallon of water every night, and all I could in the day, and gain it back by morning.
4
Of course the moose on the table here is: why are people going to the office in the first place. How many of these problems would be solved if people only went to the office when there was a need (important meetings, laboratory work, ...) and otherwise were free to work in a location (and temperature, and attire) of their choice?
2
Not everyone who works in a office is capable of working from home. I work for the State and we have to have a fully-staffed office to help all of the phone and walk-in customers who need to obtain corporate, business, or professional licenses. Being we are in a 20-storey glass building where the sun is up for 20+ hours daily in peak summer, we constantly deal with temperature issues. At least the men in our office don't have to wear suits (Dockers and a polo shirt are perfectly acceptable every day) but summer or winter, I have a desk fan blowing directly on me while the women in the office are constantly freezing. When it's 75 or warmer outdoors, I even wear shorts and still complain that it's too warm so I don't believe the dress code really has much play in this. I do agree that they should have included menopausal and post-menopausal women in this study and that warping yourself in a blanket or Snuggie is very unprofessional for any office setting.
Turn up the heat! My philosophy is you can always take more clothes off, but you can only put so many on.
3
Make it cooler! My philosophy is you can always put more clothes on, but you can only take so many off.
1
@RC: "... you can always take more clothes off, ..."
Not when you are naked ... :-)
Not when you are naked ... :-)
1
I was just in France during the big heat wave. The places that had air conditioning were uniformly comfortable, never too cold as I often find in buildings where I live in Illinois. There were men and women everywhere, and everyone seemed satisfied. I think it is possible to save lots of energy and satisfy everyone. We have a very artificial standard in the U.S.
9
My family and I just visited four countries in western Europe -- Switzerland, Germany, France, and Norway. While we didn't visit any office buildings, except a post office in Paris, I noticed that fewer locations had air conditioning at all as compared with the U.S, and those that did have air conditioning set the temperature much higher than one typically finds in air conditioned buildings in the U.S. in the summer. Maybe this is the case because many of the buildings are older, but people seemed to deal with it just fine despite rather warm weather and high humidity.
7
Older buildings and homes were built to be cool in summer with wider eaves and better airflow and warmer in winter by closing off rooms. I don't think architects put any of this into design anymore, especially with homes.
2
Very few people seem to actually care about the effects on the environment of over air-conditioning buildings, or the monetary cost of doing so. How privileged we are. I would greatly prefer a small pay raise and would tolerate more scantily clad men at the office.
6
I understand that this is both a women's issue and an environmental issue. However, shouldn't we reduce thermal gender bias simply because it's gender bias not because it's contributing to global warming?
"The study concludes that buildings should “reduce gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort” because setting temperatures at slightly warmer levels can help combat global warming."
"The study concludes that buildings should “reduce gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort” because setting temperatures at slightly warmer levels can help combat global warming."
1
Guys, back away from the burrito. (If you want to lose weight and stay cool...)
2
The main issue is the remnants of business year-round dress codes. All men expected to wear the October uniform of early 20th century London bankers. Young women to dress for a June brunch in Los Angeles and middle-aged women for a July wedding in Maine.
Somehow the west coast tech industry thrives with everyone expected to be dressed comfortable and (somewhat) professional in a 70 degree building. Wear a nice hoodie and pair of sneakers, men or women, young or old.
Somehow the west coast tech industry thrives with everyone expected to be dressed comfortable and (somewhat) professional in a 70 degree building. Wear a nice hoodie and pair of sneakers, men or women, young or old.
3
I'd love to be able to wear a tank top, but if I've got to have my neck in a noose -- uh, tie -- and wearing "European fashions" in tropical weather, then yeah, the AC needs to be on Arctic!!
3
Some women are not smaller than 154 pounds.
And it is far easier to put clothes on than wear less. Get a sweater or long sleeved shirt. People who work around computers need to realize that the computers can't be kept as warm as they might find comfortable.
And it is far easier to put clothes on than wear less. Get a sweater or long sleeved shirt. People who work around computers need to realize that the computers can't be kept as warm as they might find comfortable.
4
I have the space heater, sweater, & blanket. I also have a computer and writing to do, which is difficult with my stiff, blue-tinged fingers which are not always cured by the space heater, sweater, & blanket. Here in the Deep South we freeze in office AC from early spring to late fall.
All of you who like it freezing and tell us to just throw on a sweater, we have, already! How about you meet us part way? If we just bump up the temp a FEW degrees, the rest of us would be less frozen and might actually get a bit more work done.
All of you who like it freezing and tell us to just throw on a sweater, we have, already! How about you meet us part way? If we just bump up the temp a FEW degrees, the rest of us would be less frozen and might actually get a bit more work done.
46
What is missing from all this "science " is the fact that many women ( and men) have serious medical conditions that result in heat sensitivity. For instance autoimmune diseases ( and women are most at risk) any and all diseases with nerve loss. Some people just cannot regulate their body tmperature . it isn't merely a matter of "bumping" up the temerpature a few degrees. A few degrees means fingers and toes don't work well - bodies over heat ( think pregant women in marathons in hot weather ) So please do bring a sweater - you can "warm " up but cannot cool down esily. And think how utterly difficulty it is for truly heat sensitive people in overheated stuffy office buildings in the winter
1
I have an idea: how about men don't wear suit jackets in their offices?
Anecdote: in Northern California, we are used to cool temperatures, and 74F feels very warm.
Visiting Florida, I am now accostumed to room temperature of 77F, but this took some time.
I have a visitor from Monterrey Mexico, and guess what? She's freezing in the place at 77F.
So, there is really no solution. Maybe relaxed dress codes will help men get out of their hot jackets in jobs that require looking "professional".
Anecdote: in Northern California, we are used to cool temperatures, and 74F feels very warm.
Visiting Florida, I am now accostumed to room temperature of 77F, but this took some time.
I have a visitor from Monterrey Mexico, and guess what? She's freezing in the place at 77F.
So, there is really no solution. Maybe relaxed dress codes will help men get out of their hot jackets in jobs that require looking "professional".
4
I think there's a larger point: there's no democracy at work. The people most affected by these issues appear to have no control over their environment. It's like you've never left high school; only the name of the institution changes.
9
This is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read. Maybe this girl ought to have her thyroid checked if the men are "in, like, shorts." This entire article and the study is actually what is sexist. There are way to many variables (height, weight, level of fitness, temperature you are used to, etc.) between men and women to say that it is sex that determines that.
Honestly, I would like to know if the study was funded by federal grants. I hate to think my tax dollars paid for this. Maybe they should report on stupid studies tax dollars are spent on. It is a disgrace that this was on the front page today.
Honestly, I would like to know if the study was funded by federal grants. I hate to think my tax dollars paid for this. Maybe they should report on stupid studies tax dollars are spent on. It is a disgrace that this was on the front page today.
6
If you had read the article, you would know that the study was done by Dutch researchers in Holland. So no, unless you are Dutch your tax dollars did not pay for it.
2
67 degrees and they are unable to work because they're freezing? What gene pool did these descendants of Nordic farmers and settlers of the US come from? This would have made a great plot for a "Little House on the Prairie" episode -- the fight over the cabin thermostat.
1
HUGE difference between sitting at a desk all day versus doing manual labor
3
So all of this research to tell us what we already know? Keep the thermostat at 72 or 73 for the happy medium. You can't please everyone all the time...find the medium which is between 70 and 75.
Gee thanks...
Gee thanks...
3
When it becomes appropriate for men in business to wear shorts, t shirts and sandals - the same as a summer dress and sandals - then ok, done. Until then, know that its easier to get warm then it is to get cool. 68 to 70 degrees or so shouldn't make it necessary to wear the equivalent of a parka to work. Try working in an office thats set at 73 to 78 degrees, see how long it takes before you are miserable.....
3
Men and women were not meant to work together. The only equal between them ought to be pay.
1
I launched a women's clothing line this past February to solve this very problem. I disagree that the temperature in buildings is controlled for the comfort of men alone I do believe women's career wear is not necessarily designed to be warm and layering properly can be complicated. The jackets I design are very warm, comfortable, versatile, and comfortable and can be worn with just about any outfit in any season. Check it out!
www.emilyslocum.com
www.emilyslocum.com
2
Thank you for this article! And may I point out that slender men, like my husband, are often too cold in offices and public spaces.
3
Up until about 5 years ago, I always wore pantyhose with trousers or skirts year round. Then, I realized I was a dinosaur--no one wears stockings. I'm not even sure they sell them anymore! In any case, it makes a huge difference in your comfort level in an air conditioned building if you wear stockings, a slip under a skirt, even a camisole under a shirt. Layers--but, of course, fashion dictates and everyone wants their fresh pedis and their toned legs to show, snow or no snow.
The perfect example was Michelle Obama and Jill Biden with bare legs in January for the first Obama inauguration. Both of them were insanely underdressed for the weather.
The perfect example was Michelle Obama and Jill Biden with bare legs in January for the first Obama inauguration. Both of them were insanely underdressed for the weather.
3
Ok, to all the women out there who are complaining, first, agreed, some offices should be warmer - mostly less humid.
Now, to be fair and unbiased, try an experiment; dress how a man at the office is required to for a month during the summer: t-shirt, shirt, tie, long pants, boxers or briefs (no thongs) socks, closed shoes and a jacket. Leave the house like that, commute - train and subway preferably - then step in out of 90 +/- degrees and humid to your nice cool office...... get the picture? Easier to get warm then it is to get and stay not cool but comfortable.
Now, to be fair and unbiased, try an experiment; dress how a man at the office is required to for a month during the summer: t-shirt, shirt, tie, long pants, boxers or briefs (no thongs) socks, closed shoes and a jacket. Leave the house like that, commute - train and subway preferably - then step in out of 90 +/- degrees and humid to your nice cool office...... get the picture? Easier to get warm then it is to get and stay not cool but comfortable.
4
The article is based on the perception that workplaces are air conditioned to too low a temperature because they are biased against women. Two factors: the formula is used to determine the sizing of the air conditioning system and does not prevent adjustments to the thermostat.
Secondly, although the article focuses on an assumption that women are freezing in the office in the summertime, the reality of the situation is that women have a much narrower temperature band of comfort than men do. So women are equally likely to be uncomfortable if it is too hot as when it is too cold. Both winter and summer.
For every woman who is complaining about it being too cold in the office, there is another woman who will complain it is too hot if you raise the thermostat five degrees. For men, you generally have to set the thermostat 15-20 degrees away from his comfort zone before he'll have difficulty functioning.
Secondly, although the article focuses on an assumption that women are freezing in the office in the summertime, the reality of the situation is that women have a much narrower temperature band of comfort than men do. So women are equally likely to be uncomfortable if it is too hot as when it is too cold. Both winter and summer.
For every woman who is complaining about it being too cold in the office, there is another woman who will complain it is too hot if you raise the thermostat five degrees. For men, you generally have to set the thermostat 15-20 degrees away from his comfort zone before he'll have difficulty functioning.
4
Oh my God. Here we go again. Do women ever stop whining about how they are being discriminated against? I work in an office of mostly women and its always warm to the point of being unbearable. I brought a fan. Problem solved. No running to the papers or a civil rights lawyer. No feeling put upon. I'm sorry that these women are living in a hormone induced sauna but maybe they need to stop whining and bring in a small heater. The whole blanket thing with Ms. Mahannah is just absurd.How about having an office pow wow and come up with a compromise? I'm sure I'll be accused of being a misogynist, but really, grow up and shut up.
2
Since we are all sharing, before I retired I worked in a place where they set the temperature so t was about 68 in the summer and 78 in the winter. And don't get me started about tunnel lighting. In most places they turn off most of the tunnel lights in the day so you enter a black hole and can't see. At night they turn them all on and you have to suddenly squint when you enter the tunnel and when you come out the other end you have lost your night vision and can't see again. Industrial engineers are mostly all idiots.
3
I am blessed with a wide comfort zone but even so I am continually amazed by the degree to which many spaces are not merely cooled but darn near refrigerated. When I walk outside and my glasses fog up, it is often a relief to feel the heat. I have gotten off commuter buses and gotten into a car that had been sitting in the sun for 10 hours and felt the oven-like temperature as pleasant.
My current workplace stresses energy conservation and has remote control over the heating and cooling. A local "busy box" masquerading as a thermostat allows small adjustments within the set range. In the winter I have hung bags of ice on the thermostat to get the temperature up to a comfortable level where my hands can use the keyboard.
My current workplace stresses energy conservation and has remote control over the heating and cooling. A local "busy box" masquerading as a thermostat allows small adjustments within the set range. In the winter I have hung bags of ice on the thermostat to get the temperature up to a comfortable level where my hands can use the keyboard.
3
So many studies have built-in gender bias, and thanks to these guys for addressing it in their research design. The findings speak for themselves as do all the women who are bundled up in blankets and whatnot. There will be a good deal of individual variation in comfort and strategies, but that's not really the point, is it?
2
I've worked in too many offices where the summer temp was set for fat men in suits and half the women were wrapped up in heavy sweaters with space heaters under their desks. This is not a productive environment.
At my current office, the temperature range is usually reasonable and people are dressed for the weather most of the time. If someone needs to put on a suit for a meeting, they do so, then change back to something more summer-appropriate. I wish that more offices would do likewise.
At my current office, the temperature range is usually reasonable and people are dressed for the weather most of the time. If someone needs to put on a suit for a meeting, they do so, then change back to something more summer-appropriate. I wish that more offices would do likewise.
1
Having been in the workforce (now retired) and suffered the freezing offices over the years, necessitating that I wear turtlenecks and hats in summer, I figured out the reason why men don't feel the cold as much as women. It has nothing to do with metabolic rates...men wear suits and ties which are very hot!!
1
It is not just office buildings; it's restaurants! I'm male and I dress for summer weather in the summer. Take me into a restaurant and I'm suddenly expected to dress for winter. What's up with that?
4
And not one mention of some typical better or worse thermostat settings. All these formulas and special chamber tests mean NOTHING in the real world. Jeez. Experiment, to the extent you either can change the temperature or the building engineer can.
That reducing energy consumption is a positive for the earth is a DOH! moment and really isn't part of the comfort equation. Heck, shut the air off and open the windows!
I've long been amazed and disappointed when people find out that mixing the genders in a work or military environment creates problems, real or perceived.
Sexual harassment, real or imagined, sex, affairs with married coworkers, and, well, air conditioning.
Spoken as the grandson of the first female licensed driver in Brazil and the father of three daughters working in engineering and biology.
That reducing energy consumption is a positive for the earth is a DOH! moment and really isn't part of the comfort equation. Heck, shut the air off and open the windows!
I've long been amazed and disappointed when people find out that mixing the genders in a work or military environment creates problems, real or perceived.
Sexual harassment, real or imagined, sex, affairs with married coworkers, and, well, air conditioning.
Spoken as the grandson of the first female licensed driver in Brazil and the father of three daughters working in engineering and biology.
1
Good grief! I can see it now. Women are being abused in the work place. The new stand for the democrat liberals. What's worse it will actually be discussed. Men unite now or you'll be so warm trying to work you'll be unproductive. Maybe then they could just replace you with a woman and things would be more equal.
2
This reads like a piece of infotainment out of a tabloid. Devise a contentious title which will be sure to attract liberals and especially feminists; add some biased study that chunks up all women as a perfectly homogenous group, and pit them against a once-again, supposedly homogenous group of men; claim men have some kind of unfair advantage, and count the clicks and watch the comments pile up (852 for now).
I've worked in workplaces where women outnumbered men, and fights over heating or A/C were between women of different ages and builds, not along gender lines. In high school, we had a spanish professor who would insist on opening the windows when it was freezing outside, to accommodate her hot flashes. She would typically wear a dress; the whole class would keep their jackets on. If any consistent dividing lines were to be established, I'd say they'd definitely be between younger, slender women, and their menopausal counterparts, whatever their age; not between men and women. But I guess the former isn't as good a clickbait as the latter...
I've worked in workplaces where women outnumbered men, and fights over heating or A/C were between women of different ages and builds, not along gender lines. In high school, we had a spanish professor who would insist on opening the windows when it was freezing outside, to accommodate her hot flashes. She would typically wear a dress; the whole class would keep their jackets on. If any consistent dividing lines were to be established, I'd say they'd definitely be between younger, slender women, and their menopausal counterparts, whatever their age; not between men and women. But I guess the former isn't as good a clickbait as the latter...
4
If you are cold, put on a sweater. It's not that difficult.
1
This article fails to address the fact that modern buildings are multi-zoned and usually only from 800-1400 square feet per zone. Moving people around doesn't seem to be a good solution?
Comfort is subjective and is part of many factors. How close one is to the exterior wall, what sort of electronic (heat) producing devices are nearby, age, menopausal, clothing worn, activity level, heat sink sources like concrete floors and un-insulated walls, etc.
Comfort is subjective and is part of many factors. How close one is to the exterior wall, what sort of electronic (heat) producing devices are nearby, age, menopausal, clothing worn, activity level, heat sink sources like concrete floors and un-insulated walls, etc.
1
Not just men, men in suits and ties.
1
The "easy fix" of fixing the formula is not so easy. Men are already out of their jackets in the office and in most work places the tie is dead. Would we have men work shirtless? Of course not, and women can dress more warmly.
I have an image of men asleep at their desks because of the heat.
I have an image of men asleep at their desks because of the heat.
1
Got a great chuckle out of your article. At the local gym I frequent, an eighteen year old girl is in charge of the music and a menopausal woman the temp. All the men with air buds and sweaters.
1
If you push the "save the environment" narrative, heat burns exponentially more fossil fuels than electricity, but you don't see this article written about turning the heat off in winter and everyone wearing more clothes in the office.
I'm sweating bullets with the heat on and am much less productive in winter. So lets re-write this article for wintertime, huh?
I'm sweating bullets with the heat on and am much less productive in winter. So lets re-write this article for wintertime, huh?
2
The article notes that most men wear suit and ties to work. Hello, whst planet are you living on???
Secondly, it depends whose ox is getting gored. In an office environment, it's easier to add clothes than remove clothes. As a man, I like it the way it is. Women, buy sweaters.
Secondly, it depends whose ox is getting gored. In an office environment, it's easier to add clothes than remove clothes. As a man, I like it the way it is. Women, buy sweaters.
1
What about public and retail buildings? I work part time at Home Depot and I'm guessing over 1/2 the customers are women and if you want them to spend more $ make them comfortable so they browse more. Most men hate shopping and get in/out ASAP.
2
Wear an extra layer or allow men to wear speedos. Pick.
2
Almost every television interview shows men with long sleeved jackets over long sleeved shirts and with long pants, socks, and enclosed shoes next to women with sleeveless dresses and sandals.
2
The same phenomenon occurs at conferences held in hotel ballrooms. The women try to listen to lectures and participate, but they are frozen under giant AC vents, miserable. There is no way to look professional in Snuggies, so we shiver in our camisoles for 4 days. It's not healthy. Wake up hotels -- conferences are not wedding receptions! Dancing is frowned upon during keynote addresses!
4
So its either a cooler room for women who can just put on a sweater or a sweat box for men who will eventually run out of cloth they can take off before these same women call the police and have them arrested.
2
Superficially it seems fair to pick an average temperature - but it is not. It is much easier to stay warm by adding more clothes than it is to cool down. In addition, most businesses do not give men the option of wearing what they'd prefer to wear in warm temperatures, like shorts and a t-shirt.
So you have to choose: if you're going to force men needlessly to wear long pants, and in some cases even a suit, tie and jacket in the office, then you have to make the office cool enough for those men to survive. Cool drinks can help a little but not much.
Women have the option to wear heavier clothes. They usually have the option to wear the same summer clothes outside and inside the office (or at least, this is my male impression, probably there are major differences that I don't notice!)
The right solution is to get rid of all the stupid dress codes, let people wear whatever they're comfortable in, and then make the temperature a bit warmer. It's not rocket science.
So you have to choose: if you're going to force men needlessly to wear long pants, and in some cases even a suit, tie and jacket in the office, then you have to make the office cool enough for those men to survive. Cool drinks can help a little but not much.
Women have the option to wear heavier clothes. They usually have the option to wear the same summer clothes outside and inside the office (or at least, this is my male impression, probably there are major differences that I don't notice!)
The right solution is to get rid of all the stupid dress codes, let people wear whatever they're comfortable in, and then make the temperature a bit warmer. It's not rocket science.
2
Sometimes I have a feeling that some people in our country lost their minds. To be honest, this "sometimes" happened right now, after I read this news. Guys, what's wrong with these people? Gender equality - good, yes, but don't you think that they have gone too far?
1
There is a bigger issue that the study seems to gloss over. The original formula is based on men weighing 154 pounds. I don't know too many offices where the average weight of the men is 154 pounds - 175 seems more likely. (The CDC says that the average weight of men in the USA is 195 lbs). Surely this would imply that the room should be even COLDER, rather than warmer? (If the formula is adjusted to be ideal for these men.)
2
This is clearly a patriarchal plot by the industrialized nations of Europe and America to commit genocide against the female office population in order to eliminate competition for the top executive suite jobs by rendering them too sick and too cold to work effectively. Please join my movement's organization, Thawedful-Females, and register your protest by signing my Thermostat Bill of Rights petition found at its website. Nothing less than the future of our fragile democracies are at stake here. Frigid females, unite!
3
This is good news. Here we are, only in 2015, and we learn that men are always the default for everything: indoor temperaature settings, seat width and strap height in public transportation, seats too low for some women drivers, no need to line up at pit stops with the boys, height of desks for adults and many more unequal comfort measurements. I had to stop going to the movies because I can't see over the tops of other peoples heads. Make your adjustments, ladies, this ain't never gonna change.
4
Thank you for explaining my plight. I'm a 45 year old man - who was 190 lbs, and wears a suit. I work with young women - they are in dresses. I'm so hot at work (currently our AC is not working) they are always freezing.
1
Modern technology came to air-conditioning with temperature selection option, may be, it will be better just to give employees the opportunity to decide for themselves what should be the temperature in their office?
Let's not complicate and raise the topic of sexism and "gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort”...
Let's not complicate and raise the topic of sexism and "gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort”...
1
This problem is also cultural: I live in Italy and in the winter enclosed spaces are stifling. Men - wearing undershirts, shirts, vests, jackets and ties - react with horror if anyone suggests opening a window believing, as all Italians do, that the tiniest breath of cooler air will bring "le bronchiti" an always fatal case of bronchitis. Germ theory of disease not in play here. They are consistent however because in the summer, as this last month and a half, the heat is brutal and they fear air conditioning for the same reason. I fight with my partner to keep the tiny A/C unit on in the bedroom at night in spite of his superstition. Scot descent, I love the cold.
1
"gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort" Really? This is a thing now? We're really going to let this happen? I shudder to think of the world in which someone could say that with a serious face without everyone else laughing at them hysterically.
3
Female here who HATES warm office. Once it is over 75* it actually makes me irritable... you can always put clothes on in an office, but no the article is wrong you cannot always take them off...
1
Perhaps you can get a fan and drink a cold drink.
3
According to data from 5 million crimes in Chicago, the increase from 69 to 73 degrees corresponds to an increase of 3.3% in the crime rate. Most of which crimes are committed by men.
But don't worry ladies, although most homicides are done by men who have lost their cool, most murder victims are also men. So, you're probably okay. Enjoy your suffocating and maddeningly hot office buildings!
But don't worry ladies, although most homicides are done by men who have lost their cool, most murder victims are also men. So, you're probably okay. Enjoy your suffocating and maddeningly hot office buildings!
1
You can always put on a sweater if you are cold. But if you feel too warm at work, there's not too much you can do about it. I wear short sleeves and skirts to work and am still too warm most days.
1
The average US adult male weighs 195 lbs today rather than the 154 lbs in the 1960s, used to establish the temperatures, and the average female weighs 166 lbs--or the same as average male in 1960s. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/12/look-at-how-mu... This article itself states that "people who weigh more get warmer faster". If anything, the average male of today would need even cooler temperatures, and I suspect the reason some women feel chilly is because of attire (exposed legs, arms, etc.), rather than the temperature.
2
The problem is that men who wear less clothing will be at a competitive disadvantage against those who look more professional. So if we want to enable men to dress more appropriately in summer, it will be necessary to establish policies or laws that will permit most men to dress more comfortably. It will also be necessary to establish standards for professional summer attire. Neither men nor women should be wearing flip-flops in an office, but good dress sandals without socks should be encouraged, as well as dress shorts in office-appropriate colors.
And speaking of color, this may be part of the problem. White shirts, worn more often by men than by women, reflect not only light but heat. These shirts reflect body heat back onto the wearer, so wearing them to the office in summer increases the amount of air conditioning required.
And speaking of color, this may be part of the problem. White shirts, worn more often by men than by women, reflect not only light but heat. These shirts reflect body heat back onto the wearer, so wearing them to the office in summer increases the amount of air conditioning required.
I find that the HVAC in office buildings tends to be pretty poor in general. I often feel too cool in the summer and too warm in the winter. There are wide temperature swings between areas of the office and the temperature can't be adjusted without calling the building super, who also seems to serve as the thermostat. Many folks have space heaters to replace the heat the cooling system removed, or supplement the building's heat.
It also seems that we have a tendency to overcompensate. It's cold outside? Let's make it a sauna inside. It's hot outside? Let's make it a refrigerator inside. Neither are very logical or economical for a single definition of comfort.
Before we call the cool temperatures of office buildings a sexist attack on women, let's think about the big picture. Most of the tools at our individual disposal serve to make us warmer - space heaters, sweaters, exercise. Their practical counterparts are: cool food/drink, removal of clothing, and sitting still, respectively. Technologically, it is much easier to heat than to cool (second law of thermodynamics); cooling is a local phenomenon which heats somewhere else.
Rather than picking a temperature right in the middle of men's and women's comfort, the sensible approach is to set the temperature on the cooler end of the spectrum. Those who feel cool CAN bundle up; those who feel warm cannot strip to comfort. This approach is economical in the winter but not so much in the summer.
It also seems that we have a tendency to overcompensate. It's cold outside? Let's make it a sauna inside. It's hot outside? Let's make it a refrigerator inside. Neither are very logical or economical for a single definition of comfort.
Before we call the cool temperatures of office buildings a sexist attack on women, let's think about the big picture. Most of the tools at our individual disposal serve to make us warmer - space heaters, sweaters, exercise. Their practical counterparts are: cool food/drink, removal of clothing, and sitting still, respectively. Technologically, it is much easier to heat than to cool (second law of thermodynamics); cooling is a local phenomenon which heats somewhere else.
Rather than picking a temperature right in the middle of men's and women's comfort, the sensible approach is to set the temperature on the cooler end of the spectrum. Those who feel cool CAN bundle up; those who feel warm cannot strip to comfort. This approach is economical in the winter but not so much in the summer.
4
I find the suggestion that 'women' and 'men' are somehow monolithic groups when it comes to temperature needs ridiculous. I know women who are always cold and others who flush easily and are readily too hot (my mom). I have worked in all female offices where there is an ongoing (usually silent) battle over the air in summer and heat in winter with various parties turning it up or down (there was nothing like hearing the secretary go to the air and shut the fan off when it was 'just right' in my office. I knew I was about to be too warm, but also that the fan blew more directly at her all day). Things like how close one sits to a vent and partitions/walls location can also affect who is too cold or not cool enough.
And, for women of a certain age, well, first their cold, then their too hot, then their cold, then they're too hot... and it's not the room's air or heat and it makes setting the thermostat a challenge to say the least - even if they are alone in the room.
And, for women of a certain age, well, first their cold, then their too hot, then their cold, then they're too hot... and it's not the room's air or heat and it makes setting the thermostat a challenge to say the least - even if they are alone in the room.
4
Has anyone studied the office cooling effect in women during pregnancy? I wonder if women's metabolic rate is lower to prevent overheating during pregnancy.
1
Duh. Women who work in offices have known this for years--the temps are set for men.. For thirty years I fumed about this--a blanket on my lap, never taking off my blazer--and sometimes wearing my winter coat over that. And then,,,suddenly....the office got very warm. Really warm. I had to buy a desk fans, and run it non stop. I wear sleeveless tops and tanks under jackets and cardigans--something I'd never have done before. Gee, , none of the guys I work with complain about it being too bot, the younger women are all still wrapped in blankets--in July. Either I won.t admit to my age or the effects of climate change are very individualized. :-)
4
Men between the ages of 40 and 49 arenearly 27 pounds heavier on average.
The typical 40 year old man is probably 180.
And for women it is close to 170. So the study is flawed
The typical 40 year old man is probably 180.
And for women it is close to 170. So the study is flawed
2
Weights would only be relevant if heights were standardized.... but they're not.
1
There's another reason for the colder office temps.
When computers were first introduced in offices they used to be housed in separate rooms with super cool temps due to the amount of heat they generated. Mainframes became PCs for individual use but the temps in the office remained cool due to the heat from the servers under the desk.
No one changed the temperature requirements with the introduction of laptops!
When computers were first introduced in offices they used to be housed in separate rooms with super cool temps due to the amount of heat they generated. Mainframes became PCs for individual use but the temps in the office remained cool due to the heat from the servers under the desk.
No one changed the temperature requirements with the introduction of laptops!
9
Very astute observation!!!
SO all women want the same temperature that is so much higher than what ALL men want. Dastardly. Except that any thermostat set above 70 degrees turns my wife into a melting popsicle. My threshold is 72.
4
Wow, these men's comments defending turning the office into a 67-degree icebox make it sound like the last bastion of male prerogative!
That aside ssems like there must be something going on besides a simple temperature difference - like how much blowing air there is?
That aside ssems like there must be something going on besides a simple temperature difference - like how much blowing air there is?
5
You have got to be kidding me. People do set their thermostats based on costs, not male preferences. I have worked in a very hot Mexico, a very hot and humid Florida, and in Cleveland. After acclimating, the thermostat is adjusted to activity, not a specific temperature. Gyms and offices temperatures are different. Days and nights are as different as assembly lines and bedrooms. It is naive to think an employer waste thousands of dollars a month to air condition workplaces because of male preferences. Show me proof that men determine what a thermostat is set at. In my life, I have not once experienced a rule that determined a temperature of a workplace, except in Mexico. There, it is conditioned air, and the union requires a temperature to be 80 degrees, or 20 degrees less than the outside temperature, whichever us greater. There, 90 percent of the workers were women.
1
Years ago I alternated seasons in Wisconsin and Florida. In Wisconsin winters, women wore pants, leggings under long skirts, bulky sweaters--anything to combat the cold--and no one considered them unprofessional. In Florida summers, men gave up suits for tasteful linen. The ideal thing would be for us to embrace seasonality in professional attire. We'd all be a lot healthier for it.
Now, what say those "experts" about the personal tropical vacations that women of a certain age take?
Now, what say those "experts" about the personal tropical vacations that women of a certain age take?
14
I just finished a contract for a firm that required suit and tie for men, but in the summer the women came in barely dressed at all. They got to set the temperature, and all of us were roasting. I couldn't concentrate on work I was so hot. Further, I don't think it's appropriate for women to come in looking like they painted on their outfits in a place of business. Dress for the temperature.
7
@Jack: "I just finished a contract for a firm that required suit and tie for men, ..."
Could you be more specific? How was the "suit and tie" requirement specified? Was the requirement written in your contract? In a company policy? What does the contract or company policy say about women's office attire?
Could you be more specific? How was the "suit and tie" requirement specified? Was the requirement written in your contract? In a company policy? What does the contract or company policy say about women's office attire?
2
The problem is these people are still working in office buildings, a near-obsolete concept. Work from home if you can, it's much more productive and you control your wardrobe and the temperature.
32
You can have the same problem at home depending on who controls the temperature. I work from home and put on a sweater in the summer. And I take one with me when we go out to a store or a restaurant, even the doctor's office, as do many women.
I have to say that the days I work from home, I am more productive, and I get to set the temperature at about 75-76 degrees. It's fantastic! Too bad not everyone can do it. I can't do it everyday. Wish I could.
1
I'm a guy, and I often wear a coat where I work. I think men and women are both freezing. The NYTimes just had another article explaining why this was so a few months ago. I think it said that cooling systems were engineered for the hottest days and that buildings are built tighter now so that cold air doesn't get out.
6
Most of this is true, but it's wrong to say that cooler commercial buildings use more energy. OSHA requires minimum air flow through these buildings, which means air is first centrally cooled and then reheated at each room. This allows for air to always be able to flow and thus would not vent outgassing. Setting the thermostat higher means more reheating and so more energy use. It's not like residential HVAC. Central cooling is a major waste that is currently the norm, and warm thermostats just waste even more energy downstream.
2
My experience: Freezing cold, painful and frozen fingers, multiple sweaters, scarves, fingerless gloves, etc. When I explained my problem I received little sympathy. I also got sideways glances about my space heater, which was essentially a requirement for me to be able to do my job without experiencing hypothermia. And at one job, my boss simply would not allow it.
The arctic conditions are miserable and VERY wasteful! No other country wastes energy in this way. Why do we?
To men who complain about how it is unfair to be too hot...it is summer. Think about how miserable you feel when the temperature is not to your liking. Those of us who feel too cold at work, we feel the same way you would probably feel if you were too hot. Yet we are expected to live with it every day! Couldn't there be a compromise? Hotter settings in the summer, cooler ones in the winter? There are always cold drinks and ice cubes...or weight loss...
The arctic conditions are miserable and VERY wasteful! No other country wastes energy in this way. Why do we?
To men who complain about how it is unfair to be too hot...it is summer. Think about how miserable you feel when the temperature is not to your liking. Those of us who feel too cold at work, we feel the same way you would probably feel if you were too hot. Yet we are expected to live with it every day! Couldn't there be a compromise? Hotter settings in the summer, cooler ones in the winter? There are always cold drinks and ice cubes...or weight loss...
15
Give me a break. Sorry you are so sensitive, but don't blame the men, especially if their jobs or dress codes require more apparel.
It's not just me. As the article explains, it is a huge proportion of the population. Women are physiologically different! Have you read the other comments to this article? Many of us are in the same boat.
I am not blaming the men, but why is it that only women are expected to compromise? Having to wear blankets, scarves and gloves in the summer and STILL BE FROZEN seems like it's only a compromise in one direction.
I'm sorry YOU are so sensitive to the heat. Maybe you just need to get use to it...or maybe you need to ask for a change to the dress code...but don't blame us women!
I am not blaming the men, but why is it that only women are expected to compromise? Having to wear blankets, scarves and gloves in the summer and STILL BE FROZEN seems like it's only a compromise in one direction.
I'm sorry YOU are so sensitive to the heat. Maybe you just need to get use to it...or maybe you need to ask for a change to the dress code...but don't blame us women!
2
This problem calls for a national commission and, perhaps, a Cabinet level person in charge. Our next pet peeve to be tackled is the knuckleheads who change paper towels and toilet paper to ridiculously thin levels to safe money. My suggestion is selective vigilanteism with space heaters, heating blankets, refusing to close the blinds, and using plenty of paper towels and toilet paper. Refuse to participate in your building's recycling program if you don't get heat, cooling or decent toilet paper.
2
given that ideal was based on 154 pound man---given many of the women i have seen in office well exceed the 154 pound i would think they would be perfectly comfortable----insulting yes but the daily mail says the average american woman weighs the same as the average us man in 1960
I worked in an office in a large government building which was so cold that I had difficulty maintaining my body heat while wearing slacks to work and a fleece jacket at my desk. I had to shed the fleece when attending important meetings or presentations. Admittedly, I am a hot weather person, but this environment contributed to a severe respiratory infection; I remained sick for several months, finally leaving the job early in mid-summer. Rapid changes in temperature are known to be unhealthy; in summer workers in places like Washington may be moving from an office cooled to 70 degrees or lower into an outside temperatures over 90.
3
Too cold, put a sweater on. Too hot, take off your clothes. Which one do you prefer? One end of the spectrum has an easy solution, the other end, not so much. That's why as someone who comes from tropical Malaysia, I hate summer with a vengeance. There is really not much of a solution for "hot" besides AC. I can layer in the winter.
4
At what temperature does air conditioning become excessive and wasteful? At exactly 0.0000000001 degree above MY preferred temperature.
3
This article (and the underlying study) seems like the worst kind of clickbait. Talking about the practical problem of making everyone comfortable in a air-conditioned space may not draw enough views and clicks, so let's turn this into a sex (not gender) discrimination issue and generate some outrage.
The "formula" is based on a 40 year old man weight about 154 pounds. Note that comfortable temperature for a person depends not only on a person's sex, but also a person's age, body mass, body fat, and other personal factors (what you are used to, for example.)
This is simply the age-old practical problem of trying make the temperature in a shared work space comfortable for everyone.
Is it a patriarchal conspiracy? I doubt it. There are many reasons offices tend to prefer temperatures that are cold. First, while cold temperatures are uncomfortable, they do not lead to interpersonal issues like sweating and body odor. Second, many work places prefer colder temperatures to ensure their workers are alert.
Whether these considerations are valid, especially in light of what we know about climate change and the need for energy conservation, is a fair question. But let's talk about the real issue, not some bogus assertion that men are insisting on wearing wool suits in 103 degree weather.
The "formula" is based on a 40 year old man weight about 154 pounds. Note that comfortable temperature for a person depends not only on a person's sex, but also a person's age, body mass, body fat, and other personal factors (what you are used to, for example.)
This is simply the age-old practical problem of trying make the temperature in a shared work space comfortable for everyone.
Is it a patriarchal conspiracy? I doubt it. There are many reasons offices tend to prefer temperatures that are cold. First, while cold temperatures are uncomfortable, they do not lead to interpersonal issues like sweating and body odor. Second, many work places prefer colder temperatures to ensure their workers are alert.
Whether these considerations are valid, especially in light of what we know about climate change and the need for energy conservation, is a fair question. But let's talk about the real issue, not some bogus assertion that men are insisting on wearing wool suits in 103 degree weather.
4
I don't think the article said, or even implied, that there is a "patriarchal conspiracy" at work here. The article simply stated that the method used to design climate control systems in office environments is outdated, because it doesn't take into account the shift in office demographics.
2
That ain't all. When we leave the freezing air conditioners and go to gyms, the equipment is designed/sized for men, too.
But today I worked at a local farm, weeding and watering, in 90+ heat. I'll take that dose of man-sized cold air now, thanks.
But today I worked at a local farm, weeding and watering, in 90+ heat. I'll take that dose of man-sized cold air now, thanks.
I live in Japan and officially recommended air conditioning temperature here is 28 degrees Celsius (about 82 Fahrenheit). The reason is environmental - to save electricity. Not all offices follow, but I can see a general shift in public consciousness towards more reasonable (higher) temperature. Public buildings and trains in general are not as freezing as they used to be 10 years ago. At home we set our air conditioning to 27 C (80 F) it's just okay - not hot, not cold.
As for men complaining about suits at work, why don't you buy summer suits made from cool materials? Materials make great difference. In a summer suit you shouldn't feel cold at 25 C (77 F) if the air is dry. If you say you're sweating in your suit at 25 C, you're wearing wrong suit.
As for men complaining about suits at work, why don't you buy summer suits made from cool materials? Materials make great difference. In a summer suit you shouldn't feel cold at 25 C (77 F) if the air is dry. If you say you're sweating in your suit at 25 C, you're wearing wrong suit.
16
Correct summer suit : $1200 ($900 when on sales)
Expensive Summerdress : $150 ($75 during the summer sales).
Woman always complain that we do not handle them as equals. But when we do (as them to dress to come to work) they want to be different... (Wear nice summer dresses to work).
Expensive Summerdress : $150 ($75 during the summer sales).
Woman always complain that we do not handle them as equals. But when we do (as them to dress to come to work) they want to be different... (Wear nice summer dresses to work).
As a disabled person, I need an office temp that is 69-72 degrees F maximum. Any higher and bad things happen. Below 68 F, I can put on a sweater.
One thing missing in this data is also humidity. In the mid Atlantic, humidity is as much a problem as heat. (People in NY, NE, CA have no idea!) If the humidity can be removed enough at 73-74 F, it might be tolerable.
Regardless, I'd rather have lower winter settings, 66-67 F LIKE EUROPE, to save but, recognize, the U.S. is and is closer to tropical zones and cooling is more complex then men versus women.
One thing missing in this data is also humidity. In the mid Atlantic, humidity is as much a problem as heat. (People in NY, NE, CA have no idea!) If the humidity can be removed enough at 73-74 F, it might be tolerable.
Regardless, I'd rather have lower winter settings, 66-67 F LIKE EUROPE, to save but, recognize, the U.S. is and is closer to tropical zones and cooling is more complex then men versus women.
2
Ugh ppl in NY have no idea about humidity? Are you referring to just New York state or NYC? Because if you know anything about NYC weather you know that we have some of the most humid weather in summers for a North Atlantic location and we also have a subtropic climate which basically puts us right there with New Orleans humidity and heat wise.
Oh, please. Women never wear socks or hose and then they complain about how cold they are. No sympathy here.
3
I'm a female and I wear socks even during the summer months. No, I am not an outlier or oddball so please stop generalizing women. And expand or diversify your circle of female friends/acquaintances to include sock-wearers.
2
Not to mention sleeveless tops.
Women in offices don't want "gender bias reduced," they want their own way. They want equality until "chivalry" seems more desirable, and then they want to be catered to. Well, my ability to go along with that idea has its limits, and this is the limit TO it. Anybody, male or female, can keep a sweater in a desk drawer, and I as a male have done so. That's a fine solution when the office temperature is lower than you like. The only thing to do when it's higher than you like is have an electric fan right on your face, and I've done that too. But in an inadequately cooled office, it isn't a fine solution. It's simply unsatisfactory. I don't think, as a man, I should have to suffer physically all day to suit the moral conviction of women that every decision needs to be resolved like an up or down toilet seat (leave it down all the time, so I don't even have to look before I sit). Here's how it's going to be: either it's their way all the time, or there's a compromise, and the compromise gets portrayed as misogyny and patriarchy, and a bunch of other four syllable words. If I can bring a sweater, ladies, so can you.
8
Sitting in their, oh dear me, too cold offices while men are out there building the buildings they use, picking up the trash that they make, repairing infrastructure to keep the bridges up and sewage flowing.
Stop whining and get a job that has a hundred degree (F) temperature swing, winter to summer.
No sympathy.
Stop whining and get a job that has a hundred degree (F) temperature swing, winter to summer.
No sympathy.
I disagree with all of the commenters saying that women have the option to dress in a scantily clad manner in the office in the summer. I take public transportation to my office job in Miami. I always wear pants, closed-toed shoes and a long sleeved shirt and I am always freezing. It goes beyond just keeping the core warm... like other people have said, it's the hands... my hands turn into blue claws after about 20 minutes in the office, rendering me effectively useless.
15
Choices:
1. Keep at a temperature comfortable for people who like it cooler. Cold people have to bundle up.
2. Keep a temperature comfortable for people who like it hot. Warmer people sweat.
Which would you choose? Honestly this seems another one of those endless NYTimes articles saying men are doing something wrong... give me (and men) a break. We're doing the best we can.
1. Keep at a temperature comfortable for people who like it cooler. Cold people have to bundle up.
2. Keep a temperature comfortable for people who like it hot. Warmer people sweat.
Which would you choose? Honestly this seems another one of those endless NYTimes articles saying men are doing something wrong... give me (and men) a break. We're doing the best we can.
8
Do what I did, after I got tired of the female in the next office turning up the heat.
I re-wired the thermostat so it worked in reverse.
I re-wired the thermostat so it worked in reverse.
6
There certainly IS a difference between women's and men's reactions to heat and cold.
But an even larger difference seems to be between large people and skinny people.
Us chubbies, especially men, are always miserable in heat.
I see lots of women at my workplace wearing long-sleeved sweaters OUTDOORS in 90 degree temps in August. Older men seem to dress this way too.
I can hardly breathe in a pair of gym shorts and a Dri-Fit shirt.
I can't take off any more clothes, but the skinny women OR men who smoke cigs (bad blood flow) and sit at desks all day are likely to get cold. DUH.
And folks in the South are supposed to be happy with the hot temperatures.
I'm roasting and it's only East Tennessee August warm here.
But an even larger difference seems to be between large people and skinny people.
Us chubbies, especially men, are always miserable in heat.
I see lots of women at my workplace wearing long-sleeved sweaters OUTDOORS in 90 degree temps in August. Older men seem to dress this way too.
I can hardly breathe in a pair of gym shorts and a Dri-Fit shirt.
I can't take off any more clothes, but the skinny women OR men who smoke cigs (bad blood flow) and sit at desks all day are likely to get cold. DUH.
And folks in the South are supposed to be happy with the hot temperatures.
I'm roasting and it's only East Tennessee August warm here.
1
Anybody who believes office buildings succeed in maintaining a predetermined constant temperature, I get a bridge you might be interested in.
3
Recently, on a hot summer day, I'd a medical office visit. The doctor of course was running 35 minutes behind. As I sat 'patiently' waiting in the tiny exam room I turned blue. Not a pleasant experience. Medical practices in office buildings should adjust accordingly. Hospitals can also be similarly too icy or hot.
So bring a sweater or jacket not only to work but the mall, movie theater, supermarket AND the doctor's office. Those johnnies are thin!
So bring a sweater or jacket not only to work but the mall, movie theater, supermarket AND the doctor's office. Those johnnies are thin!
3
In other parts of the world 23-25C (73-77F) are considered sensible summer air conditioning temperatures. I find 23C a bit cold, which is what our offices are set to (I'm male and 6' 3"). At home I set 25C when I have the air conditioning on or even higher.
6
Why is this even a story? It's called dressing in layers and/or packing a sweater. If you know it's cold in your office maybe dress for it?
For the record: I'm young, female, and I keep my office nice and brisk. I'd rather be a little chilly than bake at my desk while trying to get my work done.
For the record: I'm young, female, and I keep my office nice and brisk. I'd rather be a little chilly than bake at my desk while trying to get my work done.
7
I do dress for it, though. I wear a sweatshirt/sweater and jeans to work daily and I'm still cold - hence the blanket for extra warmth.
2
Oh by all means, let's keep wasting energy so that men can wear wool suits to work in the summer, sealed against ventilation by silk ties! Because that makes tons of sense. And it is not in any way an indication of whether men or women control our public spaces, and does in any way indicate a male hegemony of environmental control in corporate life.
14
Add another 20 degrees to the "feels-like" temperature if the worker is female, post-menopausal, and gets massive doses of the hot flashes.
I'm a guy, but I've been cold at the office to the point where I had to put on a sweater. (It varies from floor to floor though, and I recently moved to a floor that is much better). At the very least, it seems to me that the workplace should not be colder in summer than in winter. If the winter temperature is tolerable in winter, then it ought to be tolerable in summer as well!
10
I'm curious why the author didn't mention the NYT's offices in New York. They have underfloor air and the potential for occupants to control it. Does the system work? Are employees generally comfortable?
1
Just don't make comments about my sweaty armpits.
Well I think women are just cold,
1
If mn like 70, and women like 75, set the thermostat for 72.5.
6
Just came back from two weeks in Florida. Had to wear my jean jacket in almost every public place, I was glad to go outside, take off the jacket and feel some warmth. I am 6'1'',215 lbs and I totally identify with these women. When you are immobile you get cold quicker so working in an office will definitely be a cold experience. Maybe companies should raise the temperatures and then give their employees a raise with all the money they save. Just kidding, it'll never happen. What's wrong with this picture? People in shorts and t-shirts in winter and sweaters in summer. Even if you don't give a hoot about climate change this is costing our country a fortune!
13
I work in a large federal government complex with many old buildings. I believe that their "formula" is "make it as cold as we can so we don't have to come back here again for a few months." I open my window to warm it up.
1
"Individualized temperature control"
Hmm. Sounds like a sweater to me.
Hmm. Sounds like a sweater to me.
1
I am just so relieved! I dress for outside and am too warm inside ////I do not believe the men vs women idea///// there is a huge difference! I just try not to shop at that store again. I always carry a jacket and wonder how and why anyone would work there. Newspapers report about global
Warming and their offictes are freezing! Carbon footprint anyone? I use no a/c and !I've in Kansas!
Warming and their offictes are freezing! Carbon footprint anyone? I use no a/c and !I've in Kansas!
Stores can be chilly too. The now-closed Blockbuster in Kihei Maui always felt like a deep freeze, even worse than chilly offices where every woman had a sweater draped on her chair during the summer months.
Just one of the reasons our per capita energy use is the highest on the planet.
Just one of the reasons our per capita energy use is the highest on the planet.
2
There's a finite number of clothes I can take off when I'm hot but an infinite number of clothes you can put on when you're cold. And besides, you don't really want to see me naked at work--or anywhere.
3
I would put a heating pad on the seat of my chair. Worked well with a warm sweater.
If you are that cold that you need to bundle up like Ms. Mahannah from Omaha I suggest the following.
First, poke your head out of your blanket and look up. Do you see a vent blowing cold air on top of you? If so call building maintenance to have them adjust or close the lovers on the vent.
If there is not any vent above you blasting you with an arctic breeze may I suggest you have a visit to your doctor because it is not normal to need a blanket or heavy winter gear at work unless you happen to work in a meat locker.
First, poke your head out of your blanket and look up. Do you see a vent blowing cold air on top of you? If so call building maintenance to have them adjust or close the lovers on the vent.
If there is not any vent above you blasting you with an arctic breeze may I suggest you have a visit to your doctor because it is not normal to need a blanket or heavy winter gear at work unless you happen to work in a meat locker.
2
Honestly, because my office is a very casual environment - I just thought the blanket was an optimal solution as opposed to calling maintenance and making a stink. I don't mind being in my blanket when I get cold. I was just stating that I do bundle up and posted a tweet I never expected someone at the NYT to see but hoped to get a few laughs from others at my office.
2
The picture of Phoebe McPherson says it all - the loud garish Snuggie. Nothing conservative and quiet and business like. Because women are so concerned about aesthetics and won't even wear proper business clothes is a major reason they have trouble getting respect. Gosh look at Hillary. Would you vote for a man who wore all those flashy colors and clunky jewelry? How can you take seriously someone who dresses to say look look look look at me!
2
What are you trying to say?
1
Sure, I could vote for a man who wore flashy colors and chunky jewelry -- but doing that would depend on his positions on the issues.
3
If women would dress sensibly they would not have the cold problems or the respect problems. The women in my office wear sandals in the summer. Men are not allowed. As typical women want a double standard in their favor. And it's hard to seriously any (but it's mostly women) who don't dress business like for business. Business dress should be unremarkable. But women as other commenters have posted try to outdo each other to be attractive.
Maybe cold air-conditioning was devised for men, but it benefits menopausal women and overweight folks too. Skinny young women, sorry :(
1
So.... men will consider adjusting the thermostat to save the environment, but not to accommodate the women in the office? Boy, shows you the pecking order, doesn't it?
5
The nasty war over office temperature resulted in a lock being placed on the thermostat in one office I worked in, to keep the complainers from roasting the rest of us. Frankly, lower temperatures keep staff and visitors awake in the summer, and those with circulatory issues should first of all, seek medical help for their problems, and second, simply work from home in the summer. End of story.
1
Visitors also complain about the cold offices. The cold climate in the office actually decreases efficiency. Typing when you can't feel your fingers is highly difficult. And yes, I always wear a sweater at work and I have a space heater in my office. The space heater helps, but it seems like a terrible waste of energy and it is technically not allowed.
I have sought medical help and the doctor told me I was perfectly healthy, but, like many women, require it to be a bit warmer.
I have sought medical help and the doctor told me I was perfectly healthy, but, like many women, require it to be a bit warmer.
1
Before getting into the men vs women fracas, a few questions:
1. The formula assumes a 145lb, 40-year old man. How many of these do you know? I am trying to think of the folks I know, and the only ones who would qualify are some of my East Asian friends, who are not very tall. Pretty much everyone else I can think of is at least 160lb or more. So that's a red flag.
2. Didn't the author talk to any men in these offices to hear what they had to say about the heat/cold in these spaces? They only quote the women's second-hand views on the subject.
3. Do you realize that formulas are just formulas, not magic or gospel. Furthermore, did the author ask the building managers of the sites these ladies work in how they set the temps? Formula or least complaints or something random?
Without useful information, this is just bait for bored people to leap at and noisily grind their favorites axes. It is hard to see how 70 deg makes you freeze while 72 would be just fine.
1. The formula assumes a 145lb, 40-year old man. How many of these do you know? I am trying to think of the folks I know, and the only ones who would qualify are some of my East Asian friends, who are not very tall. Pretty much everyone else I can think of is at least 160lb or more. So that's a red flag.
2. Didn't the author talk to any men in these offices to hear what they had to say about the heat/cold in these spaces? They only quote the women's second-hand views on the subject.
3. Do you realize that formulas are just formulas, not magic or gospel. Furthermore, did the author ask the building managers of the sites these ladies work in how they set the temps? Formula or least complaints or something random?
Without useful information, this is just bait for bored people to leap at and noisily grind their favorites axes. It is hard to see how 70 deg makes you freeze while 72 would be just fine.
2
I don't claim any level of expertise in the science and engineering of HVAC systems. Therefore, it is not my intent to criticize the work of the Dutch researchers. However, it seems to me that this article and the research upon which it is based might be overlooking a major piece of the equation: lack of parity between the sexes insofar as professional dress codes are concerned.
During the summer women get away with murder when it comes to what constitutes business attire: sundresses with spaghetti straps, mini skirts, sandals, even flip flops are all acceptable it seems. However, for men the default is still a suit and tie. Even if men decide to go for business casual in the summer and forgo the suit, the best they can do is to wear a short sleeve polo-- however, they must still wear pants, shoes, and socks with their polo.
There is a big difference between the insulation value of the sundress and sandals outfit and the polo with chinos, socks, and shoes outfit. If you replace the polo with a shirt and tie (but skip the suit jacket) there is an even greater discrepancy in the relative insulation values since a buttoned collar and tie significantly reduce radiant cooling.
The result is women running space heaters under their desks in offices that are refrigerated down to 68° to accommodate the men.
As an alternative I would propose parity in dress codes: i.e. If women can wear sundresses then men should be able to wear the equivalent: a wife beater & shorts.
During the summer women get away with murder when it comes to what constitutes business attire: sundresses with spaghetti straps, mini skirts, sandals, even flip flops are all acceptable it seems. However, for men the default is still a suit and tie. Even if men decide to go for business casual in the summer and forgo the suit, the best they can do is to wear a short sleeve polo-- however, they must still wear pants, shoes, and socks with their polo.
There is a big difference between the insulation value of the sundress and sandals outfit and the polo with chinos, socks, and shoes outfit. If you replace the polo with a shirt and tie (but skip the suit jacket) there is an even greater discrepancy in the relative insulation values since a buttoned collar and tie significantly reduce radiant cooling.
The result is women running space heaters under their desks in offices that are refrigerated down to 68° to accommodate the men.
As an alternative I would propose parity in dress codes: i.e. If women can wear sundresses then men should be able to wear the equivalent: a wife beater & shorts.
5
When I experienced my most deep-freeze office, it was back in the day when women did dress pretty much like the men -- suit, long-sleeved blouse. (Stockings instead of nice comfy socks though.) So you can't blame all the complaints on the modern skimpy attire.
1
Opening the windows and turning on fans probably wouldn't work now, but there was a time when offices weren't air conditioned and yet, humankind survived.
8
Women don't have to wear suits and ties. They can always put on a sweater, or if they're insane they can wear a snuggie.
3
Of course men are going to be hot, they're wearing three piece suits in the height of summer. Let them wear reasonable clothes and stop wasting energy and this nonsense.
6
I am certain that most men would prefer lighter, more casual clothes at work, but in many places that is not an option due to workplace expectations of appearance.
Usually there is no clothing item that can be removed for men. That is, unless you believe just going shirtless will fly in many places. However, 100% of people can add a clothing item if cold. There are additions that can be made to 100% of dress codes, available in countless stores everywhere.
As a science person myself, I'm sure I don't have to tell the science-minded folks that this study is a tiny sample size and would not pass serious muster in any rigorous way.
Furthermore the obvious glaring flaws is using students in their 20's. Yes those girls are always cold. But the workplace, especially the professional one where more formal dress is required, is not made up of 20 something girls. It is made up largely of men and women in their 40's and 50's. Those women are often peri-menopausal, and love to work in ice-age like conditions. Normally they prefer it colder than the men do.
Usually there is no clothing item that can be removed for men. That is, unless you believe just going shirtless will fly in many places. However, 100% of people can add a clothing item if cold. There are additions that can be made to 100% of dress codes, available in countless stores everywhere.
As a science person myself, I'm sure I don't have to tell the science-minded folks that this study is a tiny sample size and would not pass serious muster in any rigorous way.
Furthermore the obvious glaring flaws is using students in their 20's. Yes those girls are always cold. But the workplace, especially the professional one where more formal dress is required, is not made up of 20 something girls. It is made up largely of men and women in their 40's and 50's. Those women are often peri-menopausal, and love to work in ice-age like conditions. Normally they prefer it colder than the men do.
2
I'm starting menopause. My office environment is about 98% female. I have a fan at me desk, but no space heater. I'm totally fine with the bldg temp. being 5F cooler than it currently is, regardless of what it is.
3
Get a grip, people. At the worst, your air-conditioned office is probably in the high 60s -- and if you were walking outside in that temperature, which is springlike, you wouldn't be wearing a huge blanket and a Snuggie. I'm a woman, and I see a lot of this -- folks dramatically shivering while wearing a scarf or a silly blanket in the office. Bring an office-appropriate sweater if you're cold and stop complaining.
5
My office has a very casual dress code. Men are in jeans, shorts etc. If I decide I'm chilly in my sweater and jeans and want a blanket, I don't see what the big deal is? I'm not dramatically shivering, I'm usually working silently while trying to stay warm.
1
I'm detecting a lack of empathy about our complaints about feeling freezing cold--pardon me if I have feel the same way about you complaining about being "too hot"! Get a grip. Get a fan.
Sitting still at your desk for 8 hours is a very different scenario from exercising. When you sit still, your body produces less heat. And women produce less heat still, having typically much slower metabolisms and being smaller in size.
Sitting still at your desk for 8 hours is a very different scenario from exercising. When you sit still, your body produces less heat. And women produce less heat still, having typically much slower metabolisms and being smaller in size.
1
Or American offices could follow the model of Japanese offices and enforce air conditioners set to 82.4 Fahrenheit (28 Celsius).
3
82.4/28 is far too warm for me to be able to concentrate, and I say this as somebody who worked for four years in japanese offices without any a/c whatsoever. Perhaps one reason people in Japan work those ridiculously long hours is that it's hard to stay awake during warm summer days with temperatures that high and they have to work that late to accomplish anything? (PS I am a very small, slender woman who adores a/c but spent 33 years of her life without any in New Jersey and in Japan.)
You should also perhaps mention that in Japanese offices it's now perfectly acceptable for me to wear no jacket, short-sleeved shirts and ditch the tie to deal with these higher temperatures. If you're going to raise the thermostat, lighten the dress code too!
1
You wrote above that you're "a small, slender woman". Unless it's mandated in Japan that women wear men's suits, your comment doesn't make any sense.
I have a Tianhe 2 computer in the basement and I had it run the Fanger's thermal comfort equation using all the numbers in the universe and it confirmed my personal observations from 40 years of work in an office. In any office setting the Predicted Percentage Dissatisfied is, as anyone responsible for HVAC can tell you, a Constant---100%. Just before melting down the computer said "there has to be a middle ground between burrito and cleavage." I will now take a thermometer pill, put on my motorcycle boots, and get into my respiration chamber. There had better be a personal environmental module waiting for me when I get out and I don't want fake fur.
2
My sister taught undergrad classes while she was in grad school at a large Georgia university. She said that it was hilarious (not really - more like pathetic) to watch these undergraduate girls, uniformly dressed in camisole tiny shirts and tiny shorts or skirts, tremble like petrified Chihuahuas because they were so freaking cold. They never brought sweaters or cardigans to deal with the cold classrooms. Instead, they shivered and trembled like they'd been drop-shipped into the Arctic. It's called planning, people, planning. Can anyone actually focus when freezing?
4
The issue of differing dress codes for men and women is totally over-stated. How many offices require men to wear 3-piece suits every day? Not many these days. Sure, some women show legs and arms, but it's not as polarized as some commenters make it seem (men in 3-piece suits versus women traipsing around in tank tops and mini skirts). For the sake of this earth, can't men just roll up their sleeves (if they're not already wearing one of those god-awful short-sleeved golf shirts)?
3
Even when we wear "one of those god-awful short-sleeved golf shirts", our feet, legs, and torso are still covered.
Colder the office, faster the computers.
1
Women, I sympathize but I cannot empathize. Even for a man, I sweat hugely. It's actually a career killer that can turn normal minor presentation or meeting butterflies into Nixonian-seeming flopsweats. I acknowledge your shivering and I know it could affect how you are perceived. But you really don't want to work with guys like me when we are sweating 40+ hours a week. Hygienically and odor wise alone, fuggetaboutit. We can't strip down. You can put a sweater on.
Even saying this, I know this will come down to a toilet-seat-up-or-down deal and we sweaty males will lose because of the sins of our forefathers. But I have literally avoided certain jobs simply because the thermostat was set at 78 degrees every day. Over 74 or so, I am toast. Wet, salty toast. Take pity on such as I, involuntary parka-burqa-wearers!
Even saying this, I know this will come down to a toilet-seat-up-or-down deal and we sweaty males will lose because of the sins of our forefathers. But I have literally avoided certain jobs simply because the thermostat was set at 78 degrees every day. Over 74 or so, I am toast. Wet, salty toast. Take pity on such as I, involuntary parka-burqa-wearers!
4
Toilet seat should be UP by default unless the lid is also down. People (specifically men in this case) are lazy. A toilet seat that is left down is a toilet seat that will be covered with urine.
Men wear suits---for some, that's three layers. They must be dying of heat exhaustion in 70 degrees! No wonder they need AC......... Women wear scoop neck, short sleeve tops that require a 75+ degree environment. I put on a coat when the temperature falls below 70. Didja notice where I live?
2
You can't crank down the AC and expect it to solve the problem without also adjusting the expectations for mens' business attire. But if you keep the dress code this way, then keep the AC cranked high, because while you can always add some layers, you can't strip down beyond the jacket. If you're cold, bundle up.
If we want to reduce the AC usage for the sake of the environment, mens' dress code has to be part of the equation. It is completely absurd that men are expected to wear suits, oxfords, ties, long socks, and leather shoes in the summer in NYC when it's humid and the temperature is often above 85 or 90 degrees.
I'd rather see a mandate requiring that companies draft alternative dress codes that exclude suits for when the temperature is above 80 degrees outside. That way none of the companies (especially the banks) will be able to out-formal each other.
If we want to reduce the AC usage for the sake of the environment, mens' dress code has to be part of the equation. It is completely absurd that men are expected to wear suits, oxfords, ties, long socks, and leather shoes in the summer in NYC when it's humid and the temperature is often above 85 or 90 degrees.
I'd rather see a mandate requiring that companies draft alternative dress codes that exclude suits for when the temperature is above 80 degrees outside. That way none of the companies (especially the banks) will be able to out-formal each other.
2
OMG! Feel entirely vindicated! I am currently sitting in my freezing cold office in the middle of Seattle. The temperature outside has been very warm for Seattle (upper 80s/low 90s) so I dress in light summer dresses, but must then wear socks and down vests or sweaters while at work. When I leave work in a heavy jacket and walk outside, my body takes 15-20 minutes to adjust to the outside temperature and I walk, clad in a heavy coat, amongst the shorts clad tourists who think I'm strange!
2
Men's higjher metabolism is second order. The undershirt, long sleeved shirt, and suit jacket and tie are the real drivers of why men need so much aoir-conditioning in the office. It was bad from to remove your jacket in the 60s - rolling up your sleeves signified really gritty work
3
I am a slender woman who finds the indoor temperatures in summer actually cooler than in winter. I think this level of cooling is not only barbaric, but immensely wasteful. If you can't take the heat loose some weight and dress appropriately for the lovely summer weather. But don't impose on the rest of us!!
5
I am a small, slender woman who nevertheless hates the summer heat. I also have chronic health conditions that are worsened by high temperatures and NEED a cool environment to avoid worst-case, possibly lire-threatening infections as well as neurological issues. If you say "move somewhere cooler" my reply is: where? the temperatures this summer have been bad around the world. It's not always a matter of just "loosing" weight (I don't need to), some of us actually truly need cooler temps.
Jeesh, and here I thought that we were all supposed to be equal and there are no sexual differences, now I find out that, lo and behold, the sexes differ. What?
Look, if you are still chilly you can always put cloths on! However, decorum limits to how much clothing you can take off. Does this mean that if the women in an office want the temps higher, the men are allowed to roam about nude??
Look, if you are still chilly you can always put cloths on! However, decorum limits to how much clothing you can take off. Does this mean that if the women in an office want the temps higher, the men are allowed to roam about nude??
4
The current definition is "Predicted Percentage Dissatisfied, a gauge of how many people are likely to feel uncomfortably cool or warm."
It looks they need to change the definition to "Predicted Percentage Dissatisfied, a gauge of how many 40 year old, 154 pound males are likely to feel uncomfortably cool or warm."
They would need a different formula if most of the people in a building were 25 year old women weighing 130 pounds.
Regardless of the formula used there will always be a percentage of people that will be dissatisfied and will bundle up or remove clothing until they feel comfortable. That act though may make others feel uncomfortable. For example, I would feel bad about working with a Molly Mahannah bundled up in her burrito wrap.
It looks they need to change the definition to "Predicted Percentage Dissatisfied, a gauge of how many 40 year old, 154 pound males are likely to feel uncomfortably cool or warm."
They would need a different formula if most of the people in a building were 25 year old women weighing 130 pounds.
Regardless of the formula used there will always be a percentage of people that will be dissatisfied and will bundle up or remove clothing until they feel comfortable. That act though may make others feel uncomfortable. For example, I would feel bad about working with a Molly Mahannah bundled up in her burrito wrap.
If we were talking about 67 degrees it would be one thing, but if you raise the temperature to 75 there are a lot of people who could not become comfortable. Most can put on a wrap if it is too cold, but you can not fix too warm. Too warm means some would be unable to function at the office with no solution. If raising the temperature to 71 or 72 is an option, then that might make sense.
Research should be conducted on optimum temperatures for working and the results of temperatures too high and too low before someone goes off half-cocked to change the thermostat without considering all the factors. BTW, most businesses do not have men in suits anymore, so I have some doubts concerning the Dutch research - it is a cultural difference between the US & Europe? Interesting piece that at least provokes some thought.
Research should be conducted on optimum temperatures for working and the results of temperatures too high and too low before someone goes off half-cocked to change the thermostat without considering all the factors. BTW, most businesses do not have men in suits anymore, so I have some doubts concerning the Dutch research - it is a cultural difference between the US & Europe? Interesting piece that at least provokes some thought.
1
This is a case where the logical is not the same as the practical. Women generally are allowed to wear much lighter clothing that covers much less of the body. Men's breathing and ability to shed body heat is usually circumscribed by ties, long shirts over tight undershirts, long pants, socks and heavy leather shoes, regardless of the season. Add to that the differential in body metabolism, and I think all -- women included -- would opt for women adding layers rather than being in an office with a bunch of sweating men.
2
I hate cold buildings but I'm at that age where I can appreciate them for those special times when my internal thermostat goes haywire for a few minutes.
I would also like to point out another factor which, while it may not affect the office environment as much (unless the boss happens to be elderly), constitutes yet another reason why there is so much diversity in temperature preferences.
In addition to the reason given in the article for younger women in the workplace feeling cold because they "usually have slower metabolic rates than men, mostly because they are smaller and have more body fat", the opposite becomes true as both men and women age which also results in their feeling cold.
Namely, according to my mother's physician as well as other medical sources, seniors of both genders tend to feel chillier as they age because of the thinning of their skin and loss of the fat layer that lies just under the skin:
https://www.sharecare.com/health/senior-health/old-people-get-colder-easier
In addition to the reason given in the article for younger women in the workplace feeling cold because they "usually have slower metabolic rates than men, mostly because they are smaller and have more body fat", the opposite becomes true as both men and women age which also results in their feeling cold.
Namely, according to my mother's physician as well as other medical sources, seniors of both genders tend to feel chillier as they age because of the thinning of their skin and loss of the fat layer that lies just under the skin:
https://www.sharecare.com/health/senior-health/old-people-get-colder-easier
3
hated it - got pneumonia from it! then got my own office with an openable window. that solved it.
a/c is cranked up on the supposition that the men are actually wearing suits, which was a civil idea.
a/c is cranked up on the supposition that the men are actually wearing suits, which was a civil idea.
3
In extreme situations a chill will give you hypothermia or frostbite, but it will never give you a cold, flu, or pneumonia. The very idea is a myth from ... when? ... that even educated people cling to for reasons I will never understand.
Perhaps it would be better if men and women didnt work in the same buildings.
4
Like, being relegated to the back of the bus, or a different work and living area based on sex?
You mean, like, segregation?
You mean, like, segregation?
I get the global warming logic, but let me tell you, I see most women even in office settings, wearing less clothes than men - I do not see them caring about metabolism.
Besides if you feel cold, you can wear a jacket - I am a man I sometimes do that if thermostats do not function well. But if I am too hot what am I going to do - get naked?
I think women should be respectful of men's metabolism and productivity needs too.
Besides if you feel cold, you can wear a jacket - I am a man I sometimes do that if thermostats do not function well. But if I am too hot what am I going to do - get naked?
I think women should be respectful of men's metabolism and productivity needs too.
3
I know it is not fair that climate control disfavors the thin and the fit. Either the thin and fit can wear extra layers, or heavy men like me can walk around with open shirts. I think everyone will be happier with the former.
2
LOL, in my working days I was always HOT. My male work parners teased me as they thought the temps were fine, and I could not work without a fan on top speed! It was a huge bone of contention between me and my ex at home as I liked the AC at about 72 degrees in the summer and he insisted on 80. In the winter I like heat set at 66 and he demanded 74. So happy now to be retired and live alone, so I can have my house cool the way I like it.
2
Actually my sister sets her AC lower than I want it, it's too cold.. I understand that many women get 'Hot Flashes'. Maybe these are who sets the AC in those buildings.
I've told the women in my office who complain about it being cold that we have two choices. Keep the thermostat turned to 70º and the complainers can wear sweaters etc. or turn it up to the 80º that they seem to prefer and I can sit in my office wearing nothing but boxer shorts. The thermostat stayed at 70º
4
Sounds good for menopausal women.
1
I have a space heater and several sweaters at work!
At home, I barely ever use AC - I just leave my windows open for the breeze.
At home, I barely ever use AC - I just leave my windows open for the breeze.
2
can we just finally acknowledge that men and women are different?!? I know it throws a wrench in the whole equality paradigm, but it's a fact. My space heater is on high (what a waste of electricity!) I keep a fleece and a scarf permanently in my cube and always wear long pants in the summer. I am most productive after 6pm when the building's AC shuts off. Thank god for flex schedule!
2
The problem is that men's preference is always the standard, even in a case like this where the women's preference would benefit the company by reducing energy costs. Why do women have to be the uncomfortable party? Because any way that women are different from men is either ignored as unimportant or viewed as a deficiency. We need to realize that women are half of the population, and our needs are equal to those of men.
2
In Japan, to save energy, many businesses keep their offices at around 80 F. Its absolutely disgusting and inefficient: people falling asleep everywhere, using half their energy to wave hand fans at themselves. Being a bit cold is much more productive to being too hot. People like me who are hot can't take off any more clothes without being inappropriate !
2
As one of the very few female traders at a major investment bank, I now understand why I spent nearly a decade freezing everyday at work, while the majority (men) seemed extremely comfortable. Many days I wore a ski jacket and sometines wven gloves. It was definitely a distraction and made it harder to work, let alone dress normally.
3
Based on my observations, women more often complain about air conditioning set too cold. But, once outside, on cool, sunny days, I repeatedly see women in tank tops when I'm wearing a light jacket. That suggests to me that it isn't the temperature. Compared to men, women are like sponges. They absorb more a/c, more sunshine, more odors, and more emotional stuff. On the other hand, they absorb less macho stuff, which is why they seldom give each other wedgies.
3
Objection: women don't give each other wedgies because they're nicer people. they don't give each other wedgies because women's clothing does that as a matter of course, no need to spend extra energy on it.
Women (and Midwestern men) spend their extra energy gossiping about who is next up for backstabbing.
Why yes, I am a woman, and a Midwesterner.
Women (and Midwestern men) spend their extra energy gossiping about who is next up for backstabbing.
Why yes, I am a woman, and a Midwesterner.
Suddenly everything makes sense - why men come into my office building and mention how nice it feels, while women mention ask how we're expected to work at this temperature. It's one thing to have air conditioning working overtime in an active space like a gym; it's another thing entirely to have it cranking out the cold air in an office where everyone sits at a desk all day. As a woman who has to wear long sleeves and sweaters to work (and cleavage has nothing to do with it, thank you, Dr. van Hoof) in 100-degree weather, I say turn up the thermostat a couple of degrees so we can focus on working instead of warming up!
10
The climate controlled war on women continues unabated.
5
Ah yes, the paradox of summer. I never leave home without a sweater, if not a down jacket. And grocery stores are even worse than offices. Such a waste of energy.
16
normal office temp at 70 degrees? maybe in the seventies or eighties. our office is set at 76 and the women still walk around in sweatshirts or sweaters.
4
Leave it to (some) men to be threatened by this study. It's not a big conspiracy. We have energy issues. We are cooling our offices based on a 100% male occupancy when the actual breakdown is 50/50. No one is suggesting we cut men out of the formula completely (and honestly, does anyone really think the suggestion of evening out the temp will go anywhere?) I know it's not 1955 anymore but that's a good thing, nothing to be afraid of!
15
Assuming all men are the same, and all women are separately the same, it doesn't matter if it's 100% men, 50% men, or 25% men. Until the cooling equivalent of space heaters are available, the temperature should be set for those who have the lowest comfort temperature. Then everyone CAN be comfortable.
Being forced into early retirement had only one benefit for me: I no longer have to endure sitting in a deep freeze for 8 hours a day. I always suspected that men controlled the thermostat; this study proves it.
8
The basal metabolic rate depends on age, body size, so many variables you can't account for. The statistics or premise just seems poor. None of the workforces would be a representative sample. There are too many different workplaces, environments, stresses (some jobs more stressful than others), people. Men in general yes have higher rates but I'm a guy and I often feel cold as well.
Real only way to fix this is (if it needs to be fixed) is to segregate male and female workers into different areas of a building. Oh but then you'd get sued for gender discrimination. Sounds like a losing case if you had to accommodate someone. Just raise the temp a bit, let men wear less.
Real only way to fix this is (if it needs to be fixed) is to segregate male and female workers into different areas of a building. Oh but then you'd get sued for gender discrimination. Sounds like a losing case if you had to accommodate someone. Just raise the temp a bit, let men wear less.
2
Oh we are soooo GREEN.....
ONEZ UpON a time when we had an energy crisis in the dark ages In this case the 1970s -- the rule was interiors would be kept at 78 degrees in the summer and 56-68 degrees in the winters.
But then like the very sensible 50 mph speed limit ( conserves gas and lives as the aging drivers' reaction time wanes) -- well we just can't do that... We are so clever, green, organic and of course can text while we drive.. (Please hurry up with the drive itself car!!)
ONEZ UpON a time when we had an energy crisis in the dark ages In this case the 1970s -- the rule was interiors would be kept at 78 degrees in the summer and 56-68 degrees in the winters.
But then like the very sensible 50 mph speed limit ( conserves gas and lives as the aging drivers' reaction time wanes) -- well we just can't do that... We are so clever, green, organic and of course can text while we drive.. (Please hurry up with the drive itself car!!)
3
stick the driverless cars - get responsible.
The Maastricht University article linked from this article notes that:
"In general, females prefer higher room temperatures than males in home and office situations, and mean values may differ as much as 3K (males 22 degrees C [71.6 ° Fahrenheit ]versus females 25 degrees C [77 ° Fahrenheit )."
Feeling too chilly or too warm in a modern, climate controlled office setting may involve other factors - like humidity and even evaporative cooling of the surface of the skin (say, from being near an outlet for the conditioned air) - but quoting of those figures as two mean temperatures suggests that there would be some overlap in real life - in a given group of people in a given climate controlled setting - between genders in thermal comfort.
And that probable overlap suggests that the thermal comfort preference among men and women is partly acquired - that it doesn't, so to speak, "come with a male or female baby" as a physiological difference when a baby is born.
Rousseau in "Emile" suggests a method of bathing a baby using a thermometer to gradually acclimate a sensitive child to a range of bath temperatures using a thermometer. Rousseau's advice is (surprisingly) scientifically valid. The passage can be found on Google Books with a search of [ Rousseau Emile bathing child use thermometer ].
I wonder how many women - and men - who complain about cold office spaces were babies who were plunged into cold bath water by a loving but inattentive parent?
"In general, females prefer higher room temperatures than males in home and office situations, and mean values may differ as much as 3K (males 22 degrees C [71.6 ° Fahrenheit ]versus females 25 degrees C [77 ° Fahrenheit )."
Feeling too chilly or too warm in a modern, climate controlled office setting may involve other factors - like humidity and even evaporative cooling of the surface of the skin (say, from being near an outlet for the conditioned air) - but quoting of those figures as two mean temperatures suggests that there would be some overlap in real life - in a given group of people in a given climate controlled setting - between genders in thermal comfort.
And that probable overlap suggests that the thermal comfort preference among men and women is partly acquired - that it doesn't, so to speak, "come with a male or female baby" as a physiological difference when a baby is born.
Rousseau in "Emile" suggests a method of bathing a baby using a thermometer to gradually acclimate a sensitive child to a range of bath temperatures using a thermometer. Rousseau's advice is (surprisingly) scientifically valid. The passage can be found on Google Books with a search of [ Rousseau Emile bathing child use thermometer ].
I wonder how many women - and men - who complain about cold office spaces were babies who were plunged into cold bath water by a loving but inattentive parent?
Boy, does this sound familiar. All the women in my office had space heaters under their desks. We were in an old building and one day we blew out the electricity on half the floor. Now that I'm retired I still need to bring a sweater to shop the supermarket --
they must keep the store the same temperature as the meat locker
they must keep the store the same temperature as the meat locker
7
Are you kidding me with these comments? I'm a woman who has to wear a suit to work, and I'm absolutely freezing in a button up and blazer. This isn't a scheme to get away with tank tops in the office! It's extremely difficult to focus when you're constantly uncomfortable.
33
Right?! I'm dying laughing over here imagining all these fantasy offices where men are bundled in worsted wool and women are in cleavage and spaghetti straps. Come on, people.
7
I'm female but I've always preferred cooler temperatures, even as a child.
It's tough to make everyone happy, I suppose. If it's cold you can throw on a sweater but it's difficult to do anything to be cooler. I do agree that for global warming reasons we should conserve energy, though, and even better yet, companies should switch to solar energy!!!
It's tough to make everyone happy, I suppose. If it's cold you can throw on a sweater but it's difficult to do anything to be cooler. I do agree that for global warming reasons we should conserve energy, though, and even better yet, companies should switch to solar energy!!!
5
I'm not sure how comfortable men really are (I tend to tolerate the cold fairly well), but I can almost guarantee this... not many of them are going to bother to raise it as an issue. It's just a difference of perspective. Essentially, if the temperature at work is within normal tolerances (let's say 65-75), men are expected to figure out how to make it through the day. If you're hot, keep a drink handy, get a seasonally appropriate suit, buy a fan, or sit and sweat for all any man around you cares, as long as you're doing it quietly. Ditto for being cold. If an employee (man OR woman) sits down at their desk huddled over with a fuzzy blanket draped over their shoulders, expecting to be treated as a professional, they'd better have a federally recognized disability accommodation, religious observance explanation, or the letters "CEO" on their personal letterhead.
4
There's a difference between being mildly hot or cold versus your fingers being numb. I was a trader for over a decade and worked with almost all men and yes, let me tell you they absolutely would raise it as an issue because there was a mutiny whenever I had the maintenance staff shut off the AC. I often had my ski jacket on at work. Sounds like you are speaking from the perspective of never having been uncomfortable.
2
You are insensitive.
Okay, to be fair, I'll admit there's nothing inherently wrong with trying to find the most comfortable temperature for everyone. At the same time, if I'm insensitive, I would wager that some people are oversensitive and maybe there's some room in the middle. I'm really not sure what's to be done about someone who goes "numb" in a temperature range most men would not bother to mention. Maybe some kind of vote? But even that would leave the more temperature susceptible people out in the cold (pun intended). I also feel like with issues as important as gender equality in the workplace, focusing things like the thermostat is a bit petty compared to maternity leave, hiring practices, equal pay, etc. It also baffles me that a person could be so sensitive to temperatures in the 60-70 degree range. The men in the office can only take off so many articles of clothing, once the temperature goes past about 75 degrees. Alternatively, even accounting for physiology, it seems women have plenty of reasonable options in a 65-75 degree environment (sweaters, pants, leggings, suit jackets, etc.). Why a huge blanket would be truly necessary is beyond me. If that is too insensitive, I have genuine concern for moving our society forward on the more pressing issues concerning women in the workplace.
I'm a small-ish female person who hates air conditioning. I work with mostly men, so you can pretty much guess I'm extremely uncomfortable most of the time. I've found that a heavy neutral colored pashina shawl is invaluable and looks better than wearing a heavy coat or a full on blanket. It adds a bit of an artsy vibe, and in solid black, can look quite chic. I work with DoD representatives and I've only ever received compliments from other women (man of whom are more fashion conscious than I am).
So... give it a try! It's better than a snuggie.
So... give it a try! It's better than a snuggie.
7
It's clear that if you have to err on the hot or cold side, office temperatures (at least in the winter) should be set on the low side. It saves energy and it is easier and more acceptable to add layers of clothes than take them off. Now in the summer, setting temperatures below 72 is not right.
1
I also doubt there are many men working in offices today anywhere near that weight of 154 pounds!
8
No office that I've ever worked in has used such a formula. They've used the thermostat on the wall, which is usually set to something like 72 degrees. And even if there is a completely centralized system that uses the formula, it's rare that it's properly balanced, so there are places that are cold and places that are too warm to all genders.
2
“Many men, they wear suits and ties, and women tend to dress sometimes with cleavage,” said Dr. van Hoof.
Um, what? Dressing with cleavage? Sloppy with translation from Dutch fantasy land? Women tend to respond sometimes with raised eyebrow, Dr. van Hoof.
Um, what? Dressing with cleavage? Sloppy with translation from Dutch fantasy land? Women tend to respond sometimes with raised eyebrow, Dr. van Hoof.
14
There's nothing on the percentage of people being too hot, too cold, or just right when these climate rules were invented. Nothing on how that changed over the years, and nothing on what changing the temperature now would do to improve the worker's (dis)satisfaction. Basically the article is useless for policy decisions.
While you can always wear more, there's a limit to how little you can wear. More so for men than for women. In my office most men already wear the bear minimum, long trousers and a (short sleeved) shirt, and they really can't take anything more off without appearing unprofessional. In that respect etiquette has already solved the temperature problem. You set the temperature in the office such that most men wearing the bear minimum are comfortable, and then women can add layers of clothing until they are equally satisfied.
No, I really don't mind if the office temperature goes up slightly to suit the majority. But I also think we shouldn't be catering to scantily clad ladies with toe-slippers, short skirts, airy blouses and cleavage instead.
I just find this article quite one-sided. More trying to get kudos from women feeling left out in the cold, then offering real solutions or even proper analysis, as you might expect from a newspaper like this.
While you can always wear more, there's a limit to how little you can wear. More so for men than for women. In my office most men already wear the bear minimum, long trousers and a (short sleeved) shirt, and they really can't take anything more off without appearing unprofessional. In that respect etiquette has already solved the temperature problem. You set the temperature in the office such that most men wearing the bear minimum are comfortable, and then women can add layers of clothing until they are equally satisfied.
No, I really don't mind if the office temperature goes up slightly to suit the majority. But I also think we shouldn't be catering to scantily clad ladies with toe-slippers, short skirts, airy blouses and cleavage instead.
I just find this article quite one-sided. More trying to get kudos from women feeling left out in the cold, then offering real solutions or even proper analysis, as you might expect from a newspaper like this.
3
People who are too cold can put more clothes on to be warmer. People who are too warm cannot necessarily take anything off. Case closed.
7
At my last position I was constantly arguing with a female colleague who wanted to turn off the AC. I wore shorts and a polo to work and I was still sweating at my desk whenever my male boss wasn't in the office to call the shots.
It is much easier to put on a sweater if you are cold. I couldn't have dressed much lighter than I did without being fired.
It is much easier to put on a sweater if you are cold. I couldn't have dressed much lighter than I did without being fired.
4
It's not a question of relative comfort. Over-cooling, like over-heating, is a waste of energy.
13
@ doriebb: "Over-cooling" is a subjective concept. Your idea of an "over-cooled" work environment may not be the same as my body's sensory perception. And if you are going to use energy conservation as an excuse for forcing compliance, than I am going to make the counter-argument that an uncomfortable work environment for the male part of the workforce is going to adversely affect productivity and hence the nation's economy.
May I suggest we agree to meet half-way and in return for reducing air-conditioning levels in the workplace, that employers also be required to forgo requiring men to adhere to the 19th century anachronism of wearing a suit and that so-called "yoke of civilization", a tie.
May I suggest we agree to meet half-way and in return for reducing air-conditioning levels in the workplace, that employers also be required to forgo requiring men to adhere to the 19th century anachronism of wearing a suit and that so-called "yoke of civilization", a tie.
I think it's interesting that the advent of temperature regulation coincided with the obesity epidemic. The fact of the matter is that humans have lived without extreme temperature regulation for millennia. They adjusted and adapted their bodies to seasonal temperatures as they had to be outdoors. Their bodies learned to self-regulate, even during physical exertion. Most diets consisted of seasonal foods; lighter in the warmer months, heartier in the winter. Now people want to eat a steaming pile of fried chicken and mashed potatoes in a 60 degree office on an 85 degree day. They don't go outside and exercise because they insist that it's too hot. Their bodies are never forced to adapt to the environment; the environment is expected to be adapted to their comfort. Their children spend 80% of their summers in air-conditioning instead of playing outside. Turn down the AC and quit catering to what are essentially unhealthy lifestyles.
11
It would help for workers with their own offices to have windows which they can safely open so as to have some control over the temperature in their own offices. But in todays age of central air-conditioned glass monoliths, windows have become an anachronism. Think about it the next time it's a beautiful day with a breeze outside while you have to breathe canned air.
13
68°-72°F is not a big deal to me. I keep the Thermostat in my house at 78° F because I save in utility costs. Think of the people who work outside and have to deal with summer temps or winter freezes. I don't believe this is a huge issue. I wear layers and adjust my dress for the occasion.
1
In the summer, companies turn on the air conditioner. Men wear suits to the office with neckties while ladies wear a thin blouse without a jacket. This is why they are cold. Men have to wear more clothing than women and need the thermostat set so we don't sweat.
Ladies - wear a jacket or a sweater, and please make sure it isn't paper thin. Try on a man's suit jacket and test the weight; once you do, you'll see why men want the office kept cool.
Ladies - wear a jacket or a sweater, and please make sure it isn't paper thin. Try on a man's suit jacket and test the weight; once you do, you'll see why men want the office kept cool.
2
We can wear a jacket or sweater that isn't paper-thin when the people who make women's clothing actually make one. Take a stroll around Macy's and feel the fabric. You'll be hard pressed to find something thicker than a handkerchief!
As for men, most suits are marketed as a "three-season" suit. Summer is not one of those seasons.
As for men, most suits are marketed as a "three-season" suit. Summer is not one of those seasons.
3
Work attire should be weather appropriate (not to mention more comfortable!) for both sexes to be more environmentally responsible. Blasting A/C to keep men in suits from sweating is ridiculously wasteful. We should also create thermostats that support a *range* of acceptable temperatures for both heat and A/C production so the systems aren't constantly cycling on and off to maintain the temperature to within a single degree. This woman who's had neurological issues in her hands due to cold offices, even in winter clothing, votes for 70-72 in winter and 74-76 in summer.
5
I am a young, thin, female and would prefer it to be cooler than warmer. So is this really a gender issue? Come on.
5
I once shared an office with two ladies who were on opposite ends of the temperature spectrum. One would be wrapped in a blanket with a space heater while the other kept her fan on high. I kept myself out of the heat/freeze zones by sitting by the window. My now-employer requires all travelers (male and female) to wear a matching jacket-pant combo Monday-Friday. We could not walk away from our desks without donning my jacket.
It seems to me that men in Latin American countries (and Miami) solve this problem quite sensibly by wearing great-looking guayaberas. I have a nice one that I bought in Mexico City. But if I wear it in Ohio, will I be accused of cultural appropriation?
4
This business of men's metabolism is a useless diversion on this topic. I'm male and have always been cold in these buildings and have spoken to scores of men who have the same issue. I find it hard to believe, that a 72 degree building will cause men who are sitting still, to sweat. Though this issue may be more severely felt by women, men are exasperated by this issue as well.
4
Reading this article and all of the heated comments either for or against the authors points makes me wonder: what on earth did people do before air conditioning was even an option, and people just had to deal with the climates they lived in? Air conditioning is a luxury, and one whose full price is more than just the electrical bill. We have bodies that, thanks to millions of years of evolution, have the ability to acclimate to different climates, even to different seasons. Perhaps we should use that.
7
Before A/C they opened windows, and did not have floor-wide open-plan office spaces. US office buildings would be very different if the codes called for daylight in every work-space, and natural ventilation as an option. Older buildings have light shafts for both reasons.
I can't resist given the comments about "cleavage" in the article. Men.....turn the temperature up and in exchange, you might get to see more cleavage and legs.
4
I am a woman, and there's nothing worse than being all dressed up and feeling hot and sweaty in your nice work clothes. I like the cooler temperatures in the office. I'd rather be able to put on a sweater than sit miserably in stifling heat.
8
Sorry - think your age range on the women is not reflecting a large group who prefer it cool/chilly... the 50+ gang. (and any young woman who rolls her eyes to the unseemliness of hot flashes thinking we should just suffer in sweaty silence... you are next, sistah.)
11
I am a male who prefers to see females wear sweaters when cold than to see them comfortable in short sleeves while I am hot, sweaty and unable to "throw" an air conditioner on to keep comfortable.
Maybe that is why the formula was based on the sex that has no recourse to being hot while the gender who is cold can always find comfort in "throwing" on a sweater.
It's not rocket science.
Maybe that is why the formula was based on the sex that has no recourse to being hot while the gender who is cold can always find comfort in "throwing" on a sweater.
It's not rocket science.
55
Ah, but apparently it IS rocket science, since my spouse (male) is always freezing in his high-rise office all year round.
1
Unless your comment is referring to reproductive ability, you don't mean "females." The word you are looking for is WOMEN.
2
Lots of generalizations here. Why did your test of females include just really young ones? I'm middle-aged. Okay, a bit past middle-aged. In the winter, I keep my place at 58 at night and turn the heat up to 64 during the days when I really want to splurge. In the summer, 75 is brutally hot indoors.
If I'm cold, I can add clothing. If I overheat, well, a negative amount of clothing doesn't exist in this space-time continuum.
If I'm cold, I can add clothing. If I overheat, well, a negative amount of clothing doesn't exist in this space-time continuum.
89
When I lived in coastal San Diego, my thermostat was placed on 80, and I was very comfortable. Now, thirty years later and in the Midwest, 68 is a tad too cold and 73 is a tad too hot. Yes, age makes a difference. (On the other hand, coastal San Diego - what's not to like???)
Thanks so much for your comment, mbs. We older women may be invisible, but increasingly "women" doesn't include us. I'm uncomfortable unless it's around 70 degrees. People who are too cold can put on a sweater. People who are burning up can suffer.
I think everyone agrees that individualized temperature control is ideal. The reality though is that the easiest, best, least discriminatory way to achieve individualized temperature control right now is by altering the way we dress. Unfortunately, it's much easier for a woman to add or remove clothing in the average workplace due to some strange adherence to outdated dress codes that keep men in pants (and sometimes full suits) in the middle of summer. I think achieving a more equitable dress code is the lowest hanging fruit here.
5
And a part of it is that we have accepted that the proper garment for men of gravitas year round is the wool suit, a garment designed for Londn during the Little Ice Age and not for the summer climate of most of America. I think jackets are actually more irrational than ties, myself.
24
If you watch some of the historical dramas on Masterpiece theatre you'll see how much has changed in suits. Men always wore 4 layers, now often down to two. (shirt, jacket vs vest (undershirt) and long johns, shirt, waistcoat (vest in US), jacket. The shirt collar and tie or cravat was intended to keep body heat in when riding a horse. It works very well for that, but is not well suited to an over-heated office. You can now get suits in tropical weight wool, or even cotton.
None of these changes helped me much in US offices though. In Saudi Arabia offices were at a workable temperature year round, but the tea trolley helped with maintenance of bodily fluids. In Germany offices were very uncomfortable in the summer because of energy controls, and sweatiness was definitely common.
None of these changes helped me much in US offices though. In Saudi Arabia offices were at a workable temperature year round, but the tea trolley helped with maintenance of bodily fluids. In Germany offices were very uncomfortable in the summer because of energy controls, and sweatiness was definitely common.
Buildings do not need to have just one temperature throughout! Even cars have dual-zone climate control. Walls, duct work, and adjustable vents will give everyone the ability to adjust the airflow to meet their desired temperature.
Yes, that might require fewer enormous rooms filled with cubicles. What a pity.
Yes, that might require fewer enormous rooms filled with cubicles. What a pity.
1
And in the winter, by contrast, American buildings are often overheated.
4
What are men who are already "in shorts" supposed to do?
I think this is a thinly veiled attempt to force men to work naked.
I think this is a thinly veiled attempt to force men to work naked.
6
You US guys are soo lucky! Here in Paris it is business suit as usual for the men and thin summer dresses for the woman. If I would be allowed to come in shorts and a shirt we could turn off the airco. But that is not business-like, so its long sleves and costume... Si yeah I put on the airco. Sorry girls, get dressed!
And.. Experts from Holland on this subject? Really? The country where 3 days above 30 degrees are considered a tropical period and the country stops working?!? Come over to Paris to life-my-live before you judge.
And.. Experts from Holland on this subject? Really? The country where 3 days above 30 degrees are considered a tropical period and the country stops working?!? Come over to Paris to life-my-live before you judge.
4
Men's metabolic rates?! I always assumed it was the suits. I never attend a conference in just a dress, no matter how smart - I know I'll freeze without a jacket!
2
The models are based on a 145 pound 40 year old man's metabolism? Most of the 40+ folks I know weight a bit more than that. On the other hand I would wager that the women used in the study (college students in their twenties) were a bit thinner than the average female office worker. It's also been my observation that overweight people tend to complain that it is too hot and skinny people tend to complain that it is too cold. Perhaphs the models should be adjusted by the average weight you are realistically? Finally, it is easier to add layers in an office environment than to remove them, especially if you are already in a short sleeved shirt. Bundle up ladies.
1
When it's cold, i turn the thermostat up. When I'm warm, I turn it lower. Problem solved
Where I worked there were placebo thermostats on the walls. You could do what you liked, but any differences were in your mind only.
1
I'm one of the guys with a high metabolism - if it's 75, and I'm wearing pants, I'll start sweating. Believe me, you don't want that. What I'd love would be to somehow convince the culture to allow Bermuda shorts as part of business attire. Here in MD, the average daily temperature through the summer is hotter than in Bermuda. If men didn't have to dress so warmly, we wouldn't have to keep offices so cool.
6
A man's uniform in the city:
* Wool pants, lined with silk
* Socks
* Close toed leather shoes
* Cotton t-shirt
* Long sleeve button up shirt
* And for those who have to wear a suit, add a silk lined wool jacket and a tie
I arrive to work a sweaty mess (no car in the city).
Meanwhile, my female colleagues are wearing short skirts, short sleeves, reasonable shoes, etc.
I have no sympathy. Literally none!
* Wool pants, lined with silk
* Socks
* Close toed leather shoes
* Cotton t-shirt
* Long sleeve button up shirt
* And for those who have to wear a suit, add a silk lined wool jacket and a tie
I arrive to work a sweaty mess (no car in the city).
Meanwhile, my female colleagues are wearing short skirts, short sleeves, reasonable shoes, etc.
I have no sympathy. Literally none!
12
I am in tech company - I do not have to wear those wool suits. I wear T-Shirt and pant. But I have not intention to compete with my female coworkers who wear sleve-less and tiny half pant. If they feel cold with that, they can just wear a little more.
I agree with the women, and I'm a man. I've thought for decades that office buildings are much too cold. In a hot place, the contrast between inside and outside is another reason to moderate the cooling. In this I agreed with my mother, who long ago complained about chilly buildings in Miami and Lagos.
6
We had a fire drill this afternoon at work and needed to leave the building pronto. I whipped off my cardigan before braving the high-80s heat. It's ridiculous.
2
It's not just where I work - it's public transportation, it's the mall, restaurant, etc. I do like air conditioning, but I don't want to freeze! I spend a good amount of time out of doors in summer attire only to go inside to arctic temps. And a sweater generally isn't enough! There has to be a better way.
14
Female Sartorial Privilege in is the scourge of many workplaces.
More seriously, men being required to show up buttoned to the gills in a shirt and suffocating torture device (i.e. a tie), long pants, socks, and closed-toed shoes, while some women come in as if they are stopping off on the way to the beach or a pool party, is just plain unfair.
More seriously, men being required to show up buttoned to the gills in a shirt and suffocating torture device (i.e. a tie), long pants, socks, and closed-toed shoes, while some women come in as if they are stopping off on the way to the beach or a pool party, is just plain unfair.
9
I am a woman and I could not agree more!! Let both genders dress appropriately for the summer heat.....and, then, STOP with the Artic temperatures in the workplace!
1
So many men have complained about women getting to wear summer clothes in the summer and they all act as if there is absolutely nothing on earth that they can do about what they are "required" to wear to the office? Have you ever thought about trying to find a different way to deal with it, like not just pouting that it's unfair? like look for different fabrics? Or ask for help getting the office dress code amended for men in the summer? Or not wear the same pants in august that you wear in December? Yeah, no, you didn't. It's unfair, so do something, like women have done for generations when something was unfair in the office, we didn't just sit around and punish the men around us and pout, we asked for changes, this is your moment, Contrarian, equal rights for men to wear sundresses in the office, pick up your protest signs and organize with your fellow bepanted and betied brethren and get what's yours.
There's a difference between what people "like" and what is responsible. Every bit of coal or natural gas burned to ventilate a human that is mal-adjusted to their environment will add extra heat to their children's environment. This temporary cooling adds to Global Warming, causing drought, wildfire, floods, and extinctions of native flora & fauna. It's not just the fossil fuels used to power the A/C, the coolant chemicals are also toxic.
This is the science. Humans thrived for millennia without air conditioning. Since we know the damage it is causing, I do not understand why it is not used more sparingly.
This is the science. Humans thrived for millennia without air conditioning. Since we know the damage it is causing, I do not understand why it is not used more sparingly.
19
Humans thrived without computers also. Just go to a third world country.
I've worked in air conditioned offices for 40 years and in my experience when the A/C goes off so does the air circulation. So warmer would also mean stuffier and, as another commentator mentioned, there would also be the odor of sweating people that would compound the effect of stuffier air if the target temperature were lowered. In the office I currently work in, one end is always cooler than the other along a string of offices about 75 feet long. Our conference room is like a freezer. So distribution of the cooler air is also probably a factor in who feels cold. And offices with windows that get sun in the morning or especially in the afternoon are much warmer than internal spaces that get no direct sunlight.
1
I keep a space heater and pashmina in my office for use during the summer. In winter, I pull out a fan.
2
From my experience in a school, it is usually the women who prefer working in a cooler environment. I have always worked in education and am not familiar with the business world, but I have to say that the premise that men prefer cooler temperatures is not my reality.
1
Put the men in shorts and sandals, and the women in long pants, socks and shoes. That would help!
BTW, I've had to work in offices that were too hot, like in the 80s! I think the thermostat was controled by somebody with hypothyroid.
BTW, I've had to work in offices that were too hot, like in the 80s! I think the thermostat was controled by somebody with hypothyroid.
2
I worked in a courthouse for years and clearly, the temperatures, winter and summer, were set for men wearing wool suits. I was always bundled up and looked like a bag lady on the days I wasn't wearing one of my own wool suits.
1
This may sound odd. At my home, I feel cold while my wife sweats if the air conditioning is not sufficiently cool (for her) during summer! So, I use a sweater or blanket in bed. This article contradicts our case. Or, does this apply to only younger women? We are in our sixtees.
1
You should keep in mind that generally, as a group, men tend to have higher body core temperature than women due to higher metabolism, body size, etc., but individually not everyone is the same. I've met women for whom a scarf is a style choice (like a pair of earrings) and not a necessity during winter, and I've known guys who needed to wear a sweater on a warm spring day. Individuals vary due to their unique combination of genetics, health factors, age, etc. so there's nothing unusual about you and your wife if both of you are in good health.
Dude, it's the estrogen-testosterone flip at work!
Hey, we just dress the way they teach us on TV. Detective Goren, winter business suit. Detective Eames, low cut, sleeveless tank top. Ditto all the other cop shows. That's how the real women professionals dress -- right?
4
I work in an office where men where suits coats, a long sleeve shirt and an undershirt... trust me the women freeze! Besides men dressing with more clothing, they also have thicker skin so yes women freeze. I can't sit in my partners office and clients who come in during the summer with summer clothes on usually ask to meet in my office where it is slightly warmer. All the women have space heaters for the summer. It is a waste of energy.
And then there's the issue of the desks designed for men who are 6 feet tall.... don't get me started on how really institutionalized gender discrimination is in the world of offices!
And then there's the issue of the desks designed for men who are 6 feet tall.... don't get me started on how really institutionalized gender discrimination is in the world of offices!
10
Anyone who thinks you can mitigate a very cold environment by adding clothes has apparently not been outside in the winter. You can bundle up and still be cold. And call me stubborn but I refuse to wear a hat and mittens indoors in August! Hearing the same old argument that to add layers is beyond tedious and just as silly as telling others to wear less (but jeez - try taking off that suit jacket!).
I may feel the cold more than some so I'm not expecting to be completely comfortable but why do those who feel the heat more than others feel like they have more right to comfort than others? Can we not meet in the middle - perhaps around 70 degrees?
I may feel the cold more than some so I'm not expecting to be completely comfortable but why do those who feel the heat more than others feel like they have more right to comfort than others? Can we not meet in the middle - perhaps around 70 degrees?
10
There you angry, never-reasonable feminists go again blaming men for everything - sheeeeeeeesh! I don't suppose the thought ever occured to you that men are expected to keep their shoulders covered, that many employers discourage us from wearing less than long-sleeve shirts with ties around our sweating necks, and often we must maintain the full suit with coat and vest on top of that. Women rarely even cover their shoulders in the work environment, which is entirely their own option to change - can't imagine why you're so cold all the time! Wearing clothing to work - what a concept! Don't worry, Ladies, it's perfectly OK to wear something pretty with sleaves - if you look cute wrapped in a blanket, we'll still like you with clothes on too.
4
Phew! I'm sure all the women out there were concerned about you not thinking they look "cute" if they're wearing something "pretty with sleeves" instead of wearing sleeveless blouses in the summer. (Or are they coming to the office naked? I can't tell from your comment.)
BTW, other men set and uphold the male business attire expectations that you complain about.
BTW, other men set and uphold the male business attire expectations that you complain about.
2
I guess this means we need to rethink men's formal attire. Kilts, anyone?
4
As a man I am always prepared for the office climate, oscillating fan for the winter office heat, space heater for the summer chill.
But if you think your office is bad pity the Koreans. I was working with staff from KNOC, the national oil company, and they were so excited the company was going to pay for new down parkas to wear in the office. KNOC does not heat the building in the winter and it can get very cold in Seoul during the winter. And they turn off the lights at lunch, all in an effort to show the nation that KNOC is conserving energy since they have n9ot found any oil lately.
But if you think your office is bad pity the Koreans. I was working with staff from KNOC, the national oil company, and they were so excited the company was going to pay for new down parkas to wear in the office. KNOC does not heat the building in the winter and it can get very cold in Seoul during the winter. And they turn off the lights at lunch, all in an effort to show the nation that KNOC is conserving energy since they have n9ot found any oil lately.
1
Over 20 years ago, I was the thin guy in the office, wearing a thin suit and sitting right underneath the AC vent, and the thermostat was controlled by the big fat salesman in the front office. I got a loose cashmere sweater, and since then that's what I carry with me whenever I go into any place air conditioned. It's easier than arguing.
9
The issue of office temperature has dogged every office I've ever worked in and it generally boils down to gender. The suggestion that women should dress differently (ie, in warmer clothes) makes sense, except when you consider the enormous pressure women are under to look "fashionable." (Oftentimes their jobs require a certain presentation.) Clothing manufacturers don't generally make women's clothing for comfort (there are exceptions). A woman's sexuality is usually emphasized. In the dead of winter, women are expected to wear sheer nylon stockings and low-cut dresses while men get the protection of long-sleeved shirts and jackets. Apparently, women's comfort just isn't important, whether it's what they wear or where they work. Could be a larger issue than A/C.
17
In what type of office are women expected to wear "low cut" dresses in winter? Very few. Really, there are certainly areas where men are given an advantage, but clothing choice is not one of them. Just the opposite. There is no doubt that women have much more freedom in clothing choice. I can remember when Al Gore and Dan Rather were made fun of for daring to wear a sweater! Another politician (the name escapes me) was laughed at for donning a flannel shirt. As a culture, we insist on men all dressing alike (look at the presidential candidates), then mock them for being cookie-cutter "suits".
Actually, if the style of the year is a low-cut dress, many women will be wearing that for the duration of the style. Sales, marketing, and advertising environments certainly encourage stylishness. Check out female TV anchors and show hosts, etc. It's not that there's an office rule that you have to be attractive (which attire accentuates), but women (and men) will tell you it can help in getting the job and in promotion. I'm also not saying that women don't have a choice. I'm suggesting that they can be penalized for the "wrong" choice. And yes, there's a prescribed uniform for men that makes it more difficult for them to vary their dress.
This test was obviously not done in an office environment with women over 40. We would rather have it cool and wear layers because that is how we dress any way. Just wait til the 20 somethings have hot flashes and see how the tune will change
9
I used to wear leg warmers to work, and would have loved to wear gloves, too. Great expose, thank you.
1
Air conditioning is a clear step forward in civilization. But making colder indoor temperatures in the summer than in the winter a sign of affluence, is moronic.
And if you think office buildings are wastefully cold, what about shopping centers? I guess for a fine shopping spree, women heroically brave the artic temperatures.
And if you think office buildings are wastefully cold, what about shopping centers? I guess for a fine shopping spree, women heroically brave the artic temperatures.
4
I have Reynaud's Syndrome. If the temperature drops below 72, my fingers go numb. Typing at the computer becomes a challenge. I either have numb fingers or wear gloves. Neither is ideal.
2
I'm not sure whether you've tried this or if it'll help but my friend wore gloves with the tips cut off. However, in your case, instead of cutting off the entire tips or buying fingerless gloves, you could try cutting only the fingerprint area of the gloves where your fingers would touch the keyboard. That way only the bottoms of your fingertips will be exposed and the rest of your hand will be kept warm in the glove.
I've always found most offices to be too cold, and I remember looking up statistics on productivity and office temperature to lobby facilities maintenance to increase the temperature.
A quick glance at Google scholar of a few studies done recently (in the 2000s) suggests that 22-24 degrees Celsius (~72-75 degrees Fahrenheit) yields optimal productivity. It also says that 30 degrees Celsius (a whopping 86 degrees Fahrenheit) is much closer to optimal productivity than 19 degrees Celsius (66 degrees Fahrenheit). I feel like I've been in offices around 19 C, never as high as 30 C.
I have little to say about the gender differential, except to say that it's not that surprising that current attitudes toward office temperature are unreflective and based on old research, given that they seem to be lower than what would be productive. I suggest that if we picked a temperature somewhere between 72 and 75, the vast majority of men would find that tolerable.
A quick glance at Google scholar of a few studies done recently (in the 2000s) suggests that 22-24 degrees Celsius (~72-75 degrees Fahrenheit) yields optimal productivity. It also says that 30 degrees Celsius (a whopping 86 degrees Fahrenheit) is much closer to optimal productivity than 19 degrees Celsius (66 degrees Fahrenheit). I feel like I've been in offices around 19 C, never as high as 30 C.
I have little to say about the gender differential, except to say that it's not that surprising that current attitudes toward office temperature are unreflective and based on old research, given that they seem to be lower than what would be productive. I suggest that if we picked a temperature somewhere between 72 and 75, the vast majority of men would find that tolerable.
7
So, reading through the comments, I am starting to see that maybe this is a gender issue after all. However, it is not the one mentioned in the article, rather, there are a lot of men here who are pretty upset that they can't wear sundresses and flip flops to work. Some of them even want to punish the women who dress appropriately for the heat. Maybe, instead of ruining the environment, freezing out your colleagues and acting like spoiled toddlers who can't be uncomfortable for even one minute, how about not giving in to the societal pressure to wear a wool suit, long sleeved shirt, undershirt, knee socks, leather oxfords and a tie in the summer?
7
@MC Ochs: "... how about not giving in to the societal pressure to wear a wool suit, long sleeved shirt, undershirt, knee socks, leather oxfords and a tie in the summer?"
How do you know men are wearing undershirts and knee socks in the summer? And what is their job description?
How do you know men are wearing undershirts and knee socks in the summer? And what is their job description?
2
It is not societal pressure for me, it is the office dress code I have to dress by. Otherwise, I can get written up or worse yet fired.
2
Many men are REQUIRED to dress is that miserable fashion you describe, and yes, even in offices run by women. I did not read one comment suggesting "punishing" women (I didn't read them all, but I read a lot). I don't think many men want to wear a sundress (although why not?) but some would like to wear a short sleeve polo, light-weight slacks, and maybe "dress" sandals (the closed toed type), but just ain't allowed.
Also, many offices are kept cool for visitors, customers, etc., that are probably glad to cool off during their brief visits.
Also, many offices are kept cool for visitors, customers, etc., that are probably glad to cool off during their brief visits.
1
Men can't take their clothes off. We can't even find shorts that aren't long. Some of us must wear suits and ties and laced leather shoes. Many young women go to work nearly naked. If they are too cold, they can put on more clothes.
7
@Kevin Cahill: "Some of us must wear suits and ties and laced leather shoes."
What job requires that "suits and ties and laced leather shoes" be worn?
What job requires that "suits and ties and laced leather shoes" be worn?
2
Anyone will have a lower metabolic rate if they are forced to sit still all day, yet most workplaces frown upon someone standing, much less walking about. How many stress related ailments result merely from the sense of being captive? Penned up animals shiver too, and it's not the A/C.
1
So glad I'm working for myself now. I always found that the offices were too warm. My home office I keep at 48-50 degrees year round. Really can't stand anything above 65. I love sleeping in 38 degrees. I don't know..everyone has their preferences, to me it seems too often people get cold too easily.
2
I don't know about this. Our office is cold, but I'm fine wearing a nice looking big shirt as jacket over a tank top (the tank top for the heat outside). Two women I work with think it's too hot and one is always cold (but thinks 90 degrees outside isn't hot enough).
This was the 2nd article about AC in offices from the NY Times this summer. I'd hate to think how hard it would be to work without AC.
This was the 2nd article about AC in offices from the NY Times this summer. I'd hate to think how hard it would be to work without AC.
The company at which I work is "cooled" to around 78 degrees -- which, for my liking, is too warm.
So, as my cold-nosed friends work in layers of clothing, I enjoy my fan.
So, as my cold-nosed friends work in layers of clothing, I enjoy my fan.
1
I work in the perfect office. It's 65 a chilly then an hour later it's 74 and muggy. On the other side of the (small) building they have space heaters in the morning and bake in the afternoon sun. What's not to like?
1
When was your office building constructed?
Replace the word "women" with "men" and vice versa in this article. One can observe that the scientists and the writer of this article view the world through a prism of misandry. For example, replace the word men with women in this quote "So for the planet’s sake, men should “stop complaining,” Dr. Kingma said." It would be absolutely unacceptable, and rightly so, to say that about women in any regards; people are more than just a group they identify with, they are individuals. Is there hard science behind this idea? Absolutely, but these researchers and the writer of this article need to know that the office thermometer isn't a grand conspiracy by men to walk over women; I was born in the late 80s, many years after this formula was set (the 1960s), and have to hold any power over anyone in a professional setting. Furthermore, they don't mention in this article breaking down the rigid gender norms that males have to adhere too. We don't wear heavy and warm suits with ties and shirts because we want to per say, we do because we have to. In many office settings, including mine (medicine), there are strict dress codes that mandate males have to wear these items or they risk formal punishment.
4
Making this a matter of sex is misleading. I, a male, have checked into hotel rooms where the air conditioning was set to 62. The temperature has been about the same in supermarkets, where most customers are female. I think theprob;em is the American fascination with technology: If we can make it colder, we will.
3
I'm with the women. Everybody wears less when it's 90 degrees outside. Why on Earth would you keep the office the same temperature as when it's 25 degrees outside?
Also, if you're sweating inside a 73 degree office, I think the problem may be you, not all the shivering, blue-lipped women around you.
Also, if you're sweating inside a 73 degree office, I think the problem may be you, not all the shivering, blue-lipped women around you.
17
My hands always get cold in over air-conditioned offices. It is especially difficult when typing a great deal, or doing data entry. My fingers get stiff and cold.
I have learned to bring gloves that have the ends of the fingers off. This keeps my hands warm enough and doesn't compromise my typing ability or speed!
I have learned to bring gloves that have the ends of the fingers off. This keeps my hands warm enough and doesn't compromise my typing ability or speed!
6
I always thought that the rule was 68 in the winter and 72 in the summer...if only it would ever get down to 72 around here...the sad part is that if we could just open our windows and doors it would be fine...I live in San Diego and it's pretty much 72 year round...
1
Workplaces set their thermostats according to a "decades-old formula"? That is preposterous and funny, if true. But I don't believe a word of it. Every workplace and office building I've ever visited or worked in sets the thermostat each day according to local weather conditions and the preferences of workers. Very simple and easy to take a vote.
1
You must not work in big office places. When I worked in state government, there was no voting and no setting the thermostat yourself. Even now, working for a nonprofit in an office complex, we have no say in setting the temperature.
1
Seriously, just put on some extra layers. This is not an issue. A man can't take off his shirt in the workplace, a woman can put on a sweater.
5
"A man can't take off his shirt in the workplace"
of course he can. Have you ever heard of Chinpedales?
of course he can. Have you ever heard of Chinpedales?
I suppose that as a man I should find my cold office comfortable, but I don't, even though I wear long pants, closed shoes and an over-shirt. (No one wears suits and ties here-- in fact many of the men wear shorts and sandals). I use a space heater but even that does not suffice.
The article suggests why I might find it so cold. Settings are typically based on what is supposed to be comfortable for a 40 year old man. I'm 77.
The article suggests why I might find it so cold. Settings are typically based on what is supposed to be comfortable for a 40 year old man. I'm 77.
6
So the culture warriors are taking on air conditioning. The WP has had three stories on it the last week or so. And, like everything, it is part of the gender wars, or whatever we call it these days. There are three options: Keep it the way it is and have the warm blooded people bring a sweater to work: or, reduce the temperature so half the people are cold and half are hot and all are uncomfortable; or, the obvious choice, warm the place up to fight that patriarchy of men who are pretending to be comfortable when they are cold, but they do it to dominate and control women. I bet all the feminists pick the last option. All those with bureaucratic minds would take the second option - the government way. Any rational person would ignore these whiners and complainers and continue to tune them out!
2
What a rich, complex topic! You certainly can design HVAC systems to give individuals control of the temperature at their desk, even in shared occupant spaces, BUT it costs more money (at least up front) and expertise to execute well. Many owners of LEED projects refuse to pursue the optional LEED credit related to individual comfort control for cost reasons. Thus even brand new LEED buildings can be lacking or designed around the comfort level of one typical body type.
1
Instead of tweaking the temperature to fit the clothes, let's try tweaking the clothes to fit the temperature! An all-year wool suit is not the answer. As someone who grew up in a hot climate with tons of power outages, I am amazed at how much we in the developed world feel entitled to change our environment instead of adapting to it.
21
DURHAM MD is wrong when she comments, "...the fact remains ... that men insist that they won't change their clothes."
The vast majority of men would be more than happy not to have to wear suits and ties. The problem is bosses who require them to. And that's whether the bosses are men or women. Doc, don't get on the case of men; get on the case of bosses.
The vast majority of men would be more than happy not to have to wear suits and ties. The problem is bosses who require them to. And that's whether the bosses are men or women. Doc, don't get on the case of men; get on the case of bosses.
14
It's not the bosses either. It's a business/culture thing.
Do you want to do business with the bankers who wear suits and ties and dress professionally, or the bankers who wear shorts and t-shirts and dress casually?
Rightly or wrongly, perceptions and appearance mean a lot, particularly when dealing with big business. That's reality. This is not something that will change anytime soon.
Do you want to do business with the bankers who wear suits and ties and dress professionally, or the bankers who wear shorts and t-shirts and dress casually?
Rightly or wrongly, perceptions and appearance mean a lot, particularly when dealing with big business. That's reality. This is not something that will change anytime soon.
4
Wear a summer suit! Honestly, what is the problem?
It wasn't men that did this to us. It was young people. I just keep a heater under my desk.
1
When I wear a skirt and blouse to work I am chilly as well.
4
The thing is that in 85F, it's a lot more sensible to wear fewer layers than wasting energy by trying to cool down the space as much as possible.
1
Sounds like pretty flimsy politically correct science to me. I don't know about the Netherlands, but in the United States air conditioning is notoriously pushed to a ridiculous degree in all kinds of public, coporate or academic spaces, and as a man, I have fallen sick several times because of it.
9
When I went to a conference at the Ford Foundation in the late 70's, the chairs in the auditorium were installed so that I, at 5'6", could not touch the floor with my feet.
4
this sounds like reason for a class action suit based on sexual discrimination.
Instead of just telling people to put on a sweater if they're cold, the NYT makes a conscious decision to further the sex wars by framing this as a men vs women issue.
6
I thought the cool temps were for the computers.
4
haha that's what I remember being told. And also that grocery stores need to keep temperature low for produce to stay fresh. But that didn't explain why the public transport buses in Tampa blast cold air in the summer months. Or the subways.
2
Every time it gets hot, the utility companies ask homeowners to turn the temperatures up on their AC to save power. Trying to be a good citizen, I usually inch it up to an uncomfortable 76 or so. But then I realize that I have been freezing at work all day. Why aren't we requiring commercial buildings to turn temps up at least during periods when the power grid is challenged?
18
We have our home room temp set to 81 in the summer, 67 in the winter. Dress accordingly. We installed NEST thermostats, they send us a good report of energy usage through the months. We can manipulate the temperature settings long distance remotely (provided the internet wi-fi is not down).
I find a lot of the anti-science declamations - on both sides of this discussion - a bit off-putting. I'm glad someone actually got into the science of this. In some ways this is like "wind chill." It's not a modern-day wimp-out, but concept based on what wind causes human bodies (and other things) to do to maintain warmth in cold weather.
I'm an outlier, even among men. I wear shorts pretty much year-round, though in this time of global warming, that's a lot more of a requirement for me. My only concern is that there's only so much clothing I can discard and keep my job (and stay out of jail). I think work rules need to be relaxed way, way beyond no neckties. A couple of years ago my boss forbade me from wearing shorts year-round and said I needed to wear a tie. I split the difference...I don't know where neckties came from (cravats is not an answer), or why, but they need to disappear.
I'm an outlier, even among men. I wear shorts pretty much year-round, though in this time of global warming, that's a lot more of a requirement for me. My only concern is that there's only so much clothing I can discard and keep my job (and stay out of jail). I think work rules need to be relaxed way, way beyond no neckties. A couple of years ago my boss forbade me from wearing shorts year-round and said I needed to wear a tie. I split the difference...I don't know where neckties came from (cravats is not an answer), or why, but they need to disappear.
8
I have an idea for the progressive "Let's-never-miss-the- opportunity-to-jump-on-a-gender-based-story" New York Times --
Especially in keeping with all the other women's-equality issues being touted by the Times and its editorial staff...
Let's make all business attire unisexually-madatory for everyone --- all the time...
So -- either all women immediately be required to wear pants, shirts, SOCKS, closed shoes, shirts and ties to work -- or -- all men be permitted (if not encouraged) to wear flimsy sleeveless tops, skirts, open-toed shoes, sandals and flip-flops -
Or --
You could work as a minimum-wage checkout girl at the huge supermarket in my neighborhood -- where it's so frigid inside they wear sweaters, gloves and scarves - even on a day like today...
Especially in keeping with all the other women's-equality issues being touted by the Times and its editorial staff...
Let's make all business attire unisexually-madatory for everyone --- all the time...
So -- either all women immediately be required to wear pants, shirts, SOCKS, closed shoes, shirts and ties to work -- or -- all men be permitted (if not encouraged) to wear flimsy sleeveless tops, skirts, open-toed shoes, sandals and flip-flops -
Or --
You could work as a minimum-wage checkout girl at the huge supermarket in my neighborhood -- where it's so frigid inside they wear sweaters, gloves and scarves - even on a day like today...
3
perhaps men should be forced to wear skirts and show plenty of cleavage at work, just as many women do. Maybe they can even launch a class action suit to make it so.
I spent years wearing pantsuits, with long sleeve shirts and an undershirt, socks and boots, in summer, and STILL freezing in every office I worked in. I usually carried a shawl or fleece to wear over my suit, despite that being considered generally "not quite professional" (so I would never wear them at a meeting with management or clients). This is NOT about what women wear, it's about the fact that we keep offices so cold it makes no sense at all!!
1
I've been working in offices for 25 years and froze my butt off most of that time. Purple fingers, numb extremities, and yes professional dress codes make this 100 times worse - nylons and pumps are not as good as socks and shoes. I actually wore a hat indoors at some places.
We all joked about our "professional blankets" on the Monkey Suit days when clients were visiting.
I think bad building design is partly to blame. Too many open spaces, hot zones on the sunny side, cold zones by the outside walls, nobody's happy. Not the men, and not the women, or the "menopausal" women (I am not one of those, yet).
We all joked about our "professional blankets" on the Monkey Suit days when clients were visiting.
I think bad building design is partly to blame. Too many open spaces, hot zones on the sunny side, cold zones by the outside walls, nobody's happy. Not the men, and not the women, or the "menopausal" women (I am not one of those, yet).
4
For all of the men (and women) complaining about how women dress in the workplace, I really challenge you to find a week's worth of outfits that are both what you deem to be "appropriate" for the freezing air conditioning as well as a professional environment. Keep in mind the following factors:
1) If you cover up too much, you're matronly and aging yourself
2) You can't choose anything too masculine
3) No repeating! If you like that blouse that actually keeps you warm, don't get it in three colors, because someone will notice and point it out.
4) Wear a skirt once in awhile! But shave your legs, and wear stockings and wear appropriate heels, but not the ones that make your legs look stocky.
5) Spend less than $200
1) If you cover up too much, you're matronly and aging yourself
2) You can't choose anything too masculine
3) No repeating! If you like that blouse that actually keeps you warm, don't get it in three colors, because someone will notice and point it out.
4) Wear a skirt once in awhile! But shave your legs, and wear stockings and wear appropriate heels, but not the ones that make your legs look stocky.
5) Spend less than $200
21
"1) If you cover up too much, you're matronly and aging yourself"
According to whom? The other women in the office? I guarantee you no guy could actually get away with saying this to a woman, nor should they. Any dress code complaints should go to HR directly.
"2) You can't choose anything too masculine"
See answer to #1
"3) No repeating! If you like that blouse that actually keeps you warm, don't get it in three colors, because someone will notice and point it out."
Again, see answer to #1
"4) Wear a skirt once in awhile! But shave your legs, and wear stockings and wear appropriate heels, but not the ones that make your legs look stocky."
Yet again, see answer to #1
"5) Spend less than $200"
Fair enough.
Overall, this doesn't seem to be a male colleague issue, but women on women "crime" so to speak, and office "politics". Also, just grow up. Who really cares about the office gossip when it comes to dress code?
According to whom? The other women in the office? I guarantee you no guy could actually get away with saying this to a woman, nor should they. Any dress code complaints should go to HR directly.
"2) You can't choose anything too masculine"
See answer to #1
"3) No repeating! If you like that blouse that actually keeps you warm, don't get it in three colors, because someone will notice and point it out."
Again, see answer to #1
"4) Wear a skirt once in awhile! But shave your legs, and wear stockings and wear appropriate heels, but not the ones that make your legs look stocky."
Yet again, see answer to #1
"5) Spend less than $200"
Fair enough.
Overall, this doesn't seem to be a male colleague issue, but women on women "crime" so to speak, and office "politics". Also, just grow up. Who really cares about the office gossip when it comes to dress code?
1
Lordy! Lordy! Thank you so much for this article!
I have spent 40+ year working in freezing offices. Currently I wear one glove because cold air blows on my mouse hand continuously and the vent can't be altered so they say.
I have spent 40+ year working in freezing offices. Currently I wear one glove because cold air blows on my mouse hand continuously and the vent can't be altered so they say.
3
My husband and I have very different comfort levels, but the rule in our house is that the person whose preference is leaast wasteful wins. So I am a bit cold in winter and he is a bit warm in winter. It's not ideal, but I figure we are saving energy.
I loathe walking into the "wall of cold" when I come in from the summer heat. It makes me absolutely miserable. I think we really need to look at our culture and think about why we continue to require men to wear wool in summer when it leads to clearly wasteful habits (cranking the ac).
I loathe walking into the "wall of cold" when I come in from the summer heat. It makes me absolutely miserable. I think we really need to look at our culture and think about why we continue to require men to wear wool in summer when it leads to clearly wasteful habits (cranking the ac).
16
We must have really changed our tolerance for heat since air conditioning became so widespread.
Check out the photos of vacationing Presidents in First Draft. Early 20th century Presidents in Virginia in full summer weight suits, their First ladies swathed in dresses. The argument that men's suits are the problem seems to fade in the face of fully suited men lounging in the heat.
We probably can find a way to acclimate to a reasonable middle ground on the thermostat.
Check out the photos of vacationing Presidents in First Draft. Early 20th century Presidents in Virginia in full summer weight suits, their First ladies swathed in dresses. The argument that men's suits are the problem seems to fade in the face of fully suited men lounging in the heat.
We probably can find a way to acclimate to a reasonable middle ground on the thermostat.
2
Consider the energy that could be saved if NYC public transportation were air conditioned to 74 degrees. Often it is below 70 on trains and buses even though the MTA denies this and says the thermometer is set to 72. Women with arthritis suffer pain and not just the discomfort of being cold. I've boarded buses when the outdoor temperature was in the low to mid 60s and hoped to warm up on the bus, but the bus had air conditioning freezing the passengers. Where I work the HVAC system is so faulty our department has to freeze so that the department across the hall can feel comfortable. Thermostats should be set to 74 (I could tolerate 75) and think of what we could achieve to offset global warming. European buildings are not heated or cooled to the extreme temperatures of those in America. Let the guys take their jackets off.
3
I use to work in an office and had this complaint.
Now I teach in a 100+ year old building with no AC. I WISH folks thought more about their kids melting to death, as well as the teachers being just as important. No office building in America would have 90+ temps in a room where humans have to be in all day and expect good work results. And yet we ask children to do it when the weather gets warm.
I have the biggest floor fans I could find in every corner of my room, sucking up tons of power just to keep a meager breeze.
So even though I sympathize with the women here (because I get cold easily too) we have a whole segment of the population dealing the with opposite and no one even bats an eye. Go tell a lethargic 7 year old your tale of woe after they have had 6 hours or more in a hot classroom.
Now I teach in a 100+ year old building with no AC. I WISH folks thought more about their kids melting to death, as well as the teachers being just as important. No office building in America would have 90+ temps in a room where humans have to be in all day and expect good work results. And yet we ask children to do it when the weather gets warm.
I have the biggest floor fans I could find in every corner of my room, sucking up tons of power just to keep a meager breeze.
So even though I sympathize with the women here (because I get cold easily too) we have a whole segment of the population dealing the with opposite and no one even bats an eye. Go tell a lethargic 7 year old your tale of woe after they have had 6 hours or more in a hot classroom.
8
Right on, Peg.
I'd love to know how many of the "too-cold" pity-mongers, if given the choice to move to your hot stuffy school, would soon cry out for a merciful return to their O-so-slightly-imperfect work spaces.
P.S.: As a parting gift, give them each one of your neat hardwood chairs....
I'd love to know how many of the "too-cold" pity-mongers, if given the choice to move to your hot stuffy school, would soon cry out for a merciful return to their O-so-slightly-imperfect work spaces.
P.S.: As a parting gift, give them each one of your neat hardwood chairs....
I think that in this case like so many others, the categories don't really fit the question. Instead of insight, this research is giving us a false dichotomy that simply reinforces noxious social stereotypes.
Population averages can conceal enormous differences among the individuals in those population. There are certainly many high-metabolism women and low-metabolism men. I work in an age-mixed and gender-mixed office, and our disagreements over air temperature never come close to dividing along any obvious category lines. In other words, knowing the age, gender, body build and dress of any individual in this office can tell you nothing about how that individual will react to any given temperature on any given day. I've seen it play out that way for years.
Maybe it's impossible to come up with a single setting that would satisfy everyone, but we definitely need to address a wider range of variables (clothing, air flow, furniture, room size and density, etc.) if we hope to find a broader consensus.
Population averages can conceal enormous differences among the individuals in those population. There are certainly many high-metabolism women and low-metabolism men. I work in an age-mixed and gender-mixed office, and our disagreements over air temperature never come close to dividing along any obvious category lines. In other words, knowing the age, gender, body build and dress of any individual in this office can tell you nothing about how that individual will react to any given temperature on any given day. I've seen it play out that way for years.
Maybe it's impossible to come up with a single setting that would satisfy everyone, but we definitely need to address a wider range of variables (clothing, air flow, furniture, room size and density, etc.) if we hope to find a broader consensus.
2
I have been complaining to our building management for 8 years. Nothing has ever changed! They don't even care! And my male coworkers are constantly undermining my efforts by belittling and making fun of the issue. Just another form of veiled discrimination! And it's not just at work. My husband and I constantly battle over the thermostat. I basically have no summer in my life. From home to the subway to work, and every indoor space there is, I'm constantly cold. And I can't enjoy the brief spurts of the outdoors in-between, because I have to be dressed for the arctic. Unless I make a point to go out and walk around in the sun on weekends (alone, because it's too hot for my husband!), I will never experience summer. This is deeply depressing!!!!!
4
Please do check with your postmenopausal cube-farm sisters. They are the first to complain when things get hot in the kitchen.
7
We just need to implement a carbon tax or equivalent, and the cost of excessive cooling will naturally result in increasing the level at which thermostats are set.
4
I echo the comments about the clothing bias and I would add that the examples sighted seem a tad extreme. I would also question whether the formula is actually in use other than possibly as part of a to calculation for HVAC capacity in buildings. Since the sixties buildings have adjusted temperatures, including for the energy crisis and global warming directive.
Finally more germane to the study than their gender is who the scientists were, their qualifications (beyond "scientist"), their agenda (which we get a hint is global warming) and what peer review and duplication of results have been attained.
Finally more germane to the study than their gender is who the scientists were, their qualifications (beyond "scientist"), their agenda (which we get a hint is global warming) and what peer review and duplication of results have been attained.
2
@TrueNorth60: "... who the scientists were, their qualifications (beyond "scientist"), their agenda (which we get a hint is global warming) and what peer review and duplication of results have been attained."
Did you actually read the article? It names both authors and provides a link to the abstract in Nature.
Did you actually read the article? It names both authors and provides a link to the abstract in Nature.
This was something I did not need a study or NYT article to tell me, having been working in business for 30 plus years. Aside from the obvious energy waste, a little common sense and flexibility would go a long way for all concerne:
I recommend relaxed dress requirements for men though I realize this has some limits if you are in client-facing roles (as it does for women). It is completely unfair for you to have to wear ties, heavy dress shoes and all that when women aren't required to do the same. But there still is a gap, as I know from my years wearing hosiery and suits in 100 degree heat. I was freezing then too! Women can leave a nice wrap, sweater or jacket, some closed-toed shoes and hosiery in their desks, if the office is that cold. Then just revert for the commute home. This is what I now all the time anyway, as a post menopausal woman and the accompanying hot and cold swings, and it seems to work.
I recommend relaxed dress requirements for men though I realize this has some limits if you are in client-facing roles (as it does for women). It is completely unfair for you to have to wear ties, heavy dress shoes and all that when women aren't required to do the same. But there still is a gap, as I know from my years wearing hosiery and suits in 100 degree heat. I was freezing then too! Women can leave a nice wrap, sweater or jacket, some closed-toed shoes and hosiery in their desks, if the office is that cold. Then just revert for the commute home. This is what I now all the time anyway, as a post menopausal woman and the accompanying hot and cold swings, and it seems to work.
6
If it's any consolation a lot of engineers know how to make comfortable buildings. The problem is developers and owners who don't want to pony up the cash to install a high quality HVAC system. First cost rules the day and "value engineering" often leaves intelligent designs with future flexibility in the recycling bin. Most offices and stores are too cold but it's psychological as mush as it is physiological. As one energy philosopher observed "Why do people call for such low temperatures in the summer when the same temperature in the winter would be considered 'freezing'? I'm comfy at 77 degrees but that doesn't fly in a mixed office setting.
3
Raising office temperatures will put at an end to systemic sex discrimination and solve global warming. This is the kind of pandering that might lead to a study proclaiming that abortions and handgun regulation lead to Jihad.
1
The workplace dress code needs to adapt to climate change. There has to be a way for men to look stylish and professional without wearing clothing that demands the air conditioning be run on high.
5
There has to be a way for men to look stylish and professional without wearing clothing that demands the air conditioning be run on high.
You should try to tell that to heads of law and accounting firms!
You should try to tell that to heads of law and accounting firms!
Yoda: Anyone who can count money should see be able to the advantages of such a shift in workplace attire. Air conditioning isn't exactly cheap. The company is paying for the AC but the employees would be paying to change their attire on their own dime.
My girlfriend and I argue about this topic endlessly. She likes it much warmer than I. My retort is that she can always add layers, I can only strip down so much. But this rarely is a winning argument. If I can't figure out how the right balance in temperature to make two people comfortable at home, how the heck can we figure it out in the office with hundreds of people?
3
I HATE air conditioning. Why can't we just keep it at 72 instead of 52? I am currently sitting in my office, with both a North Face fleece and a blanket on. I just had hot soup for lunch, and I don't refrigerate my drinks because it's too cold in here. My hands are blue.
And I am in an office full of women (and a couple men) who are similarly wrapped in blankets, sweats and have heating pads on their chairs. They wrote company policy banning space heaters, or they would be going as well (except for our receptionists, who aren't permitted to wrap in blankets). Even worse, the windows don't open and people consistently pull she shades down to "block the glare" on their computers (i.e. keep the sun/warmth outside) so the only reprieve from this is to take a "smoke break."
I don't think keeping the indoor temperature at 70 will harm anyone, men or women. Not to mention, how much time is wasted by people trying to become warmer.
And I am in an office full of women (and a couple men) who are similarly wrapped in blankets, sweats and have heating pads on their chairs. They wrote company policy banning space heaters, or they would be going as well (except for our receptionists, who aren't permitted to wrap in blankets). Even worse, the windows don't open and people consistently pull she shades down to "block the glare" on their computers (i.e. keep the sun/warmth outside) so the only reprieve from this is to take a "smoke break."
I don't think keeping the indoor temperature at 70 will harm anyone, men or women. Not to mention, how much time is wasted by people trying to become warmer.
9
The local paper ran a picture of a courtroom scene on the front page the other day. The male lawyer had on a dark gray suit, white shirt, and matching striped tie. The female lawyer had on a sleeveless bright red dress that barely went below her knees. The judge was a woman, but, of course, she had to wear professional attire (aka a judicial robe). Guess which one of the three was cold?
I am a woman who worked in various offices for 30 years. I was never cold, and preferred to dress for a cool office than for a hot one because I started out as a college lecturer and I quickly learned that no matter how clever and amusing I was, I couldn’t keep a class’s attention in a hot room. So I bought clothes for my environment and found that women who wanted to be taken seriously did the same.
I am a woman who worked in various offices for 30 years. I was never cold, and preferred to dress for a cool office than for a hot one because I started out as a college lecturer and I quickly learned that no matter how clever and amusing I was, I couldn’t keep a class’s attention in a hot room. So I bought clothes for my environment and found that women who wanted to be taken seriously did the same.
9
What about the frigid temperatures in movie theatres in the summer as well?
When I go to the movies in summer, I and most of my fellow movie patrons wear heavy sweaters or jackets which is absurd. If offices and public places kept their spaces this cold in winter- people would complain they were being too cheap with the heat. I am all for AC- but let's keep it to a comfortable level that is also environmentally sensible. This applies to both heating and cooling temps. Let's stop being stupid about this.
When I go to the movies in summer, I and most of my fellow movie patrons wear heavy sweaters or jackets which is absurd. If offices and public places kept their spaces this cold in winter- people would complain they were being too cheap with the heat. I am all for AC- but let's keep it to a comfortable level that is also environmentally sensible. This applies to both heating and cooling temps. Let's stop being stupid about this.
6
I worked in an office where there were two people out of about 40 who wanted it cold all the time, one was a woman who weighed about 90 lbs and the other was a man who weighed about 250. Everyone else was freezing all year long and, like me, had a space heater under their desk. I can't imagine it is merely men vs. women in this one, I can imagine it is cold people vs. hot people. Either way, it is a disgrace that we would waste this much energy (and planetary good will) cooling buildings when better design would focus on air flow and heat reduction rather just adding cold air.
3
"...based on a 40-year-old man weighing about 154 pounds."
Ms. Belluck, I think you failed to address a pretty important factor in all this: as compared to 1960, the average American - both male and female - is now MUCH heavier (women averaging 162.2 lbs and men 195.5)! http://wapo.st/1M19DH4
This doesn't necessarily mean that metabolic rates have changed in proportion, given that body composition (a higher component of fat now being the norm) also plays a factor (as you did point out), so it's possible your larger point is still valid. That said, the opposite could also be true - you'd have to investigate the facts to make a credible point here.
Either way, you should have mentioned the overall dramatic upward shift in body weight - it is misleading to turn this into a gender inequality issue without putting forth this angle for consideration.
Ms. Belluck, I think you failed to address a pretty important factor in all this: as compared to 1960, the average American - both male and female - is now MUCH heavier (women averaging 162.2 lbs and men 195.5)! http://wapo.st/1M19DH4
This doesn't necessarily mean that metabolic rates have changed in proportion, given that body composition (a higher component of fat now being the norm) also plays a factor (as you did point out), so it's possible your larger point is still valid. That said, the opposite could also be true - you'd have to investigate the facts to make a credible point here.
Either way, you should have mentioned the overall dramatic upward shift in body weight - it is misleading to turn this into a gender inequality issue without putting forth this angle for consideration.
8
IF you cared to even read the study material your linked article drew from you'd find these major flaws in those numbers:
1)They sampled just 20,000 people out of a population of more than 300 MILLION.
2) they "oversampled" (by how many? it does not say!) individividuals who were either over 60, were Hispanic, were Black or considered to be Low Income. (not all combined, of course)
While it is a fact that now more than HALF of our population is considered Overweight or Obese, this particular study should not be considered as "evidence" that the AVERAGE man in the US weighs 195lbs.
1)They sampled just 20,000 people out of a population of more than 300 MILLION.
2) they "oversampled" (by how many? it does not say!) individividuals who were either over 60, were Hispanic, were Black or considered to be Low Income. (not all combined, of course)
While it is a fact that now more than HALF of our population is considered Overweight or Obese, this particular study should not be considered as "evidence" that the AVERAGE man in the US weighs 195lbs.
If you are cold put on more clothes. That seems like an easy solution. If you raise the heat and people are hot, it's not like we have the option to remove clothing...
6
Putting on more clothing doesn't help when you have a vent blowing cold air on you. I wear a sweater and a jacket to work - but because the vent is right above my head - I am still miserable. It isn't just cold in my office - it is freezing. I can't do my job and dress - in a down jacket - gloves - and a winter hat - but that is what I would need to wear in an attempt to be comfortable.
3
Just layer up ladies.
Guys cannot strip to BVDs so get so over yourselves in your light summer dresses.
This is by the way a female MBA HR Prof.
TRUTH: The two MOST COMMON OFFICE COMPLAINTS:
1/2: It's too cold/hot in this office.
Guys cannot strip to BVDs so get so over yourselves in your light summer dresses.
This is by the way a female MBA HR Prof.
TRUTH: The two MOST COMMON OFFICE COMPLAINTS:
1/2: It's too cold/hot in this office.
6
I only wish I could wear light summer attire. Layering up isn't an option for many people who have to deal with the public. It isn't a matter of "getting over myself" it is a matter of being able to do my job in a comfortable setting. I work in an office with all women by the way.
i recommend very light tank tops under your clothes. There are also summer weight underwear that is made of thin fabrics. liners in your shoes if possible.
Wear stockings! Those suckers are HOT. OR tights? I kid you not I was always cold until I was always hot (30 years ago)
Wear stockings! Those suckers are HOT. OR tights? I kid you not I was always cold until I was always hot (30 years ago)
1
This is priceless information. And it is typical, since most studies, almost until today, are based on men. Now, my little story about the big freeze and America is funny and personal. Coming from a "never-heard-of-air-condition" European country and moving to New York, I very quickly learned one of the most important lessons of the Big Chill. After going to the movies for the first time - scantily clad in the sweltering July heat OUTSIDE - I was practically frozen after 20 minutes. I tried of course to let the manager know that it was too cold, so could he please turn it down. Incredulous stares, and a no. I had to leave. Unfortunately, I had picked one of those 2 for 1$ movies (oh those 70s) - no way, I could have sat trough them without catching pneumonia. From then on I had my special movie kit with me when I went to the movies. Always one pair of cute socks, a little sweater and a jacket WITH a collar, or a small scarf. So while other people started chewing their popcorn I started putting on clothes, while especially my putting on socks created envious glances from women in sandals (and amused men who admired my painted toenails). I like to think that I started a little bit of a trend in Chelsea. Besides freezing one's butt off, I never understood why people were so unconscious of saving energy.
2
I just came back from Paris and it was very very hot.
There were almost no air-conditioning anywhere except our hotel.
There was hot in metro, on a bus, in The Louvre and in The Comédie-Française.
Also, there were virtually no air-conditioning in the cafes. So, we have to seat outside.
Oh, how I missed chilly New York subway and chilly museums in Manhattan. How I missed it!
I love Paris but they have to do something about air-conditioning.
Please don't change any formulas, I love when it's cold!
There were almost no air-conditioning anywhere except our hotel.
There was hot in metro, on a bus, in The Louvre and in The Comédie-Française.
Also, there were virtually no air-conditioning in the cafes. So, we have to seat outside.
Oh, how I missed chilly New York subway and chilly museums in Manhattan. How I missed it!
I love Paris but they have to do something about air-conditioning.
Please don't change any formulas, I love when it's cold!
14
There is AC on Paris buses, on newer metro trains, and, OBVIOUSLY, in museums (you don't really imagine that the Louvre does not have temperature and humidity controls, do you?). Sitting outside in cafés and restaurants is actually the whole point of going to them during the summer. Who would ever want to sit inside during the summer? Although frankly, it's rarely hot inside the bigger cafés and restaurants. Although I'll grant you that this summer has been unusually hot for Paris. But basically, there will be no AC in places where you can open the windows (and close the blinds during really hot days) or be outside. So no AC in apartments, ever, or in cafés. People are not going to invest in extremely expensive, ugly and nocive systems just to avoid being inconvienced during a couple of weeks a year.
When there's AC, the official guidelines call for a minimal temperature of 78°F, with no more than 7°C difference between inside and outside temperatures.
I hate american summers because of your AC. It's always, always freezing inside, no matter where you are. I often get sick because of the repeated thermal shocks, and the only thing worse than being cold during the summer is having a cold during the summer. I don't know any other people who are as crazy as the Americans when it comes to AC.
When there's AC, the official guidelines call for a minimal temperature of 78°F, with no more than 7°C difference between inside and outside temperatures.
I hate american summers because of your AC. It's always, always freezing inside, no matter where you are. I often get sick because of the repeated thermal shocks, and the only thing worse than being cold during the summer is having a cold during the summer. I don't know any other people who are as crazy as the Americans when it comes to AC.
I'm a man and I'm always too cold. It's insane to waste all that energy just to make people uncomfortable.
4
Why can't we just have the same indoor temperature year round?
4
We do, it's around 70. Just it always feels different to everyone depending on how it is outside.
I won't work and sweat at 78 degrees because women like to turn off the airconditioning. I will go drop the thermostat back to 72 degrees. Women can put on a sweater, I can't take off my shirt
4
if women demand you take off your shirt why not?
Let men wear low cut shirts and shorts and we will be as cold as the women. Women have more clothing variety to choose from. Choose wisely.
1
The irony of this complaint from women is that it is pretty well established that one good way to lose or maintain weight is to lower the ambient temperature around you, and deal with the minor level of discomfort.
Be careful what you wish for, ladies.
Be careful what you wish for, ladies.
2
I don't need or want to lose weight. I just want to be warm.. it isn't a minor level of discomfort - it is freezing in my office.
1
As a menopausal woman I have to warn you that if you attempt to turn up the thermostat in my office I will not be held responsible by a jury of my peers for what happens next.
14
Why are they making this a gender, or even a weight issue? It's really about poorly designed offices and jobs that don't require us to move around very much. I'm comfortable when I arrive in the morning, getting cold by lunchtime when I put on the sweater that I keep in the drawer, and freezing in the afternoon, at which point I start up the space heater that I hide under my desk. Sometimes in hot weather I'll go outside and sit in the sun to warm up for while, which takes about 20 minutes. The reason why I'm getting colder in the office as the day goes on is that I'm sitting at a computer, not moving very much, and the longer I do that, the colder I get. I'm also sitting too close to the blower because they reconfigured our office and put work spaces where there used to be an aisle. For the record, I'm a male with a BMI around 30. My BMI used to be over 40 and I was just as cold then.
2
We solved the problem by adjusting the thermostat every spring and fall to where the most people were satisfied.
Everyone got a small personal fan and a small foot warmer - and nobody, but nobody was allowed to touch the thermostat.
Everyone got a small personal fan and a small foot warmer - and nobody, but nobody was allowed to touch the thermostat.
2
I'm in a NYC high-rise. And I don't understand why I'm much colder in the summer than in the winter. It's absurd.
2
This issue came up years ago when I was in a school that had a lockstep program, meaning 45 of us were in the same classroom for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. It was a contact battle. Even though I tend to be cold, I was on the side of the people who wanted a colder room. It's easier to put on extra clothes than to strip down to your undies. Having said that, no office should be so cold your fingernails turn blue.
Another solution would be to give employees access to treadmill workstations. I have access to a tm workstation one day a week. http://www.workwhilewalking.com. Walking 1.5 mph while working makes me so warm I have to wear an ice vest. (It's also the most fun I've ever had at work!)
Another solution would be to give employees access to treadmill workstations. I have access to a tm workstation one day a week. http://www.workwhilewalking.com. Walking 1.5 mph while working makes me so warm I have to wear an ice vest. (It's also the most fun I've ever had at work!)
1
Relatively common medical issues are part of the problem here. For example, feeling cold is a very common symptom of women who have iron-deficiency anemia or hypothyroidism. Both conditions are estimated to affect 10 to 20 percent of the female population. I have become more tolerant of air-conditioned environments since my anemia was resolved, and can sometimes get away without a sweater or jacket anymore. I've also had diabetic co-workers who always felt much too warm and wanted to run the A/C during November when it was in the 40s (over my strenuous objections!)
2
Be thankful you don't work at a radio or TV station (or my condolences if you do). In these facilities the thermostat is typically controlled by the Chief Engineer, who sets the temperature for the comfort of the equipment, not the humans (and who is, coincidentally, almost always male). As a result it's consistently about 65 degrees, summer or winter. Brrr!
1
When it gets too warm in the office, I end the day damp and smelly. Sorry, but I think it's better to be cold than warm when you're sitting for 8 hours in small rooms.
3
So, whether warmer or colder, one gender will be unhappy.
If we accommodate men, we waste energy, produce more carbon emissions, and spend more money.
If we accommodate women, we waste less energy, produce more carbon emissions, and spend less money.
It seems pretty clear that, if discrimination is necessary, it's men who should be uncomfortable!
If we accommodate men, we waste energy, produce more carbon emissions, and spend more money.
If we accommodate women, we waste less energy, produce more carbon emissions, and spend less money.
It seems pretty clear that, if discrimination is necessary, it's men who should be uncomfortable!
3
What the formula from the 1960s ignores is that as a country, we weigh a lot more than we did back then. Which means that we require more cooling to remain comfortable. Also, with the prevalence of air conditioning today, people aren't as tolerant as warmer temperatures as we were back then. A lot has changed since the 1960s.
4
Heated blanket under my desk year-round in my ENERGY STAR building. Sweater for walking around, and layers so I can handle the Texas heat when I leave.
4
It's not juist offices that are over air conditioned. It's restaurants, move theaters and buses. And we all know that the greater the difference between inside & outside temperature, the more likely you are to get a 'cachoooo' cold.
6
And grocery stores.
1
Not only that, but the metabolism of most people has trouble adjusting to the summer heat outside after being indoors with temperatures in the 60s for most of the day.
It's depressing always to be so out of sync with the real world. I'm able to do much of my work outdoors on a screened porch in the summer, and I really hate it when the weather hits the high nineties with high humidity, making it difficult to work outside.
It's depressing always to be so out of sync with the real world. I'm able to do much of my work outdoors on a screened porch in the summer, and I really hate it when the weather hits the high nineties with high humidity, making it difficult to work outside.
Many say "put on a sweater" without realizing that a sweater will do nothing for your hands which, in my case and that of other colleagues, are the bread and butter of our work. Having to use small hand tools, including some pretty sharp ones, when your fingers are stiff with cold is not only uncomfortable, it leads to mistakes and potentially dangerous slips. I'm not saying to make building warmer for me, just that there isn't a one size fits all solution. A space heater works for me until buildings can be built with more efficient and locally sensitive HVAC systems. Yes, it is a waste of resources and that I regret, but I'm trying to strike a balance.
7
Warming the body is a good start towards warming the hands.
I've always kept a pair of Fagin gloves at work along with all the sweaters, scarves, and hats.
different people have different temperature preferences, and also different ranges of tolerable temperatures. Gender is only one factor in these variable preferences. There are so many genuine, serious gender issues to address in the world, why trivialize it like this?
5
Since the new normal, weight wise, seems to be about 30 to 40 pounds overweight for most people, I doubt you're going to get thermostats much warmer in the summer these days.
1
So many people are complaining that women should either dress warmer or men should dress cooler. Some are saying to keep it cold and let others dress in sweaters. What about the part where it's contributing to climate change? Does only the comfort of each individual matter and not the health of the world?
9
The health of the world depends to a large extent on the productivity of office workers. Being warm reduces productivity.
I'd like to see the US adopt Bermuda's professional dress code of shorts, jackets, shoes and socks for men. If fashion magazines and taste-makers adopted that look in the name of global warming and comfort, business might come around to accept it. Guys could still look sharp as the look is distinctly for business and not the beach.
6
you should propose that to law and accounting firm partners and see how quickly they call security to have you thrown out!
I resent the AC, especially here in SF where almost no one uses AC at their house--everyday I have to bring layers to work. Bad for the environment. Men should be glad to discard the suits. I'm calling bluff on the argument that men are going to sweat so much to cause odor. Air flow can remain, AC should be lowered.
2
There isn't a whole lot that the "hot" people can do to feel cooler when an office is kept at higher temperatures. On the other hand the "cold" people can always dress to compensate for the cooler temperatures, so long as it isn't excessively cold. And that is what thermostats are for.
My guess is that many buildings are populated with a lot more people than they were designed to support, and that cubicles were added without any consideration for air flow.
My guess is that many buildings are populated with a lot more people than they were designed to support, and that cubicles were added without any consideration for air flow.
5
The same article that reads "The study concludes that buildings should 'reduce gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort'" shows one of the women supposedly suffering from said discrimination wearing Redskins apparel. Oh, the irony.
6
yeah, maybe find a less offensive snuggie to wear in the office please.
And here I thougt it was me, 100 degrees outside and I have a smal space heater under my desk on full blast. In time I think I can age meats and store wine for the summer.................it's that cold..............in my office.
7
I can't recall an office job where I DIDN'T have a space heater cranking hard all day during the summer. No wonder the rest of the world thinks Americans are crazy.
9
It seems silly and unfair to call this a gender issue rather than a problem with the range of human metabolisms and preferences. There are plenty of menopausal women who need fans to stay cool, as well as older people who are more sensitive to cold. There are ethnic groups that favor cooler or warmer temperatures.
Would it help if we escalated the conflict by claiming the temperature setting is an age or ethnicity issue?
Would it help if we escalated the conflict by claiming the temperature setting is an age or ethnicity issue?
150
Absolutely. Female here, and my male colleague and I are constantly cold. Both of us are slender, both of us are constantly cold. Gender plays a role in metabolism, but I know plenty of women who are always over-heated. I keep a cardigan and vest in both of my working offices and think every day about anticipated temperatures both indoors and out.
For me, it doesn't matter if my torso, arms, and legs are adequately warm--if my hands are cold, typing is a problem, and I usually type one-handed so I can sit on the other and keep it warm. I empathize with the women who wear Snuggies (or whatever those are) or who wrap up in blankets, but I also agree with another comment that there are more professional ways to stay warm. Women who complain excessively about cold temperatures should pay attention to what they wear--sandals? Wear them to work if necessary, but have warmer shows at work. Personally, I am in wool socks Oct-May, and my feet freeze in heels, regardless of the season. Better to be comfortable (but still sufficiently professional) and able to work effectively than to be "fashionable" but unable to work efficiently.
For me, it doesn't matter if my torso, arms, and legs are adequately warm--if my hands are cold, typing is a problem, and I usually type one-handed so I can sit on the other and keep it warm. I empathize with the women who wear Snuggies (or whatever those are) or who wrap up in blankets, but I also agree with another comment that there are more professional ways to stay warm. Women who complain excessively about cold temperatures should pay attention to what they wear--sandals? Wear them to work if necessary, but have warmer shows at work. Personally, I am in wool socks Oct-May, and my feet freeze in heels, regardless of the season. Better to be comfortable (but still sufficiently professional) and able to work effectively than to be "fashionable" but unable to work efficiently.
1
Oaktree
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. Thanks, Capt. Obvious!
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule. Thanks, Capt. Obvious!
Absolutely. I am a 27-year-old woman, definitely not menopausal, who is always too hot. My husband is the one pleading with me to stop blasting the fan or air conditioning (sorry, I do genuinely feel bad about the waste...), and I'm already wearing as little clothing as I can get away with in my daily life. Generalizations like the ones in this article are ridiculous.
This is a cleavage exposure issue. Anyone against more cleavage in the office, Men or Women is just Un-American.
1
you show quite a bit of sexism, unlike those women who show so much cleavage in the office.
A fantasy of mine since the women warriors I worked with were in uniform like the rest of us or at least a light jacket or sweater that would hide a pistol while working undercover. They were awesome.
Finally! A decent explanation for years of freezing. Thanks.
2
I also feel enlightened now after reading this article. I always thought it was due to the fact that men had to wear ties and jackets at work and women skirts with tops that expose cleavage and shoulders in many cases.
Thank you NY Times!
Thank you NY Times!
Does anyone remember an episode of the Doris Day Show from the 60s where Billy De Wolf played an efficiency expert, and he determined that the optimal temperature in the office in order to work most efficiently was 66 degrees? The women all froze and there was a revolt. I'd love 66 degrees. They keep this office much too warm (and the women are still cold).
"I wouldn’t overestimate the effect of cleavage, but it’s there.”
I can't believe a guy said that.
I can't believe a guy said that.
1
This makes no sense to me at all. If you are cold, no matter who you are, you should speak up and have the temperature changed. If you have to accommodate others because you are the only one who is warm or cool, then that is fine. Think of others, if you can. If the authors think we should raise thermostats, then that is an easy business decision.
I confess I haven't read all 200+ comments wonder if I am the only person
whose joints begin to ache as soon as I enter any air-conditioned building?
I am a menopausal woman so one would assume I would be grateful for any
air-conditioning I could find! However as soon as I enter a mall, supermarket,bank or my own workplace my arms, legs, shoulders and feet begin to ache. It is a joy to go out into the 80-90 degree summer heat or sit in my hot parked car and have the aches magically disappear. Wearing a winter sweater to work under my lab coat doesn't help. Perhaps retirement on a dry, sunny island in Greece is the answer...
whose joints begin to ache as soon as I enter any air-conditioned building?
I am a menopausal woman so one would assume I would be grateful for any
air-conditioning I could find! However as soon as I enter a mall, supermarket,bank or my own workplace my arms, legs, shoulders and feet begin to ache. It is a joy to go out into the 80-90 degree summer heat or sit in my hot parked car and have the aches magically disappear. Wearing a winter sweater to work under my lab coat doesn't help. Perhaps retirement on a dry, sunny island in Greece is the answer...
5
“reduce gender-discriminating bias in thermal comfort”
wow. How sorry of a country have we become.
Besides, at my company, it is the ladies changing the temperature all day long, we males just shrug. It has been the same at every office I have worked at, including yelling matches amongst the female employees on how cold/warm the office should be, followed by wars with fans, heathers, etc.
Trust me, office comfort does not take male viewpoints into account. Decoration, chairs, carpet colors, and AC settings, we never get asked.
wow. How sorry of a country have we become.
Besides, at my company, it is the ladies changing the temperature all day long, we males just shrug. It has been the same at every office I have worked at, including yelling matches amongst the female employees on how cold/warm the office should be, followed by wars with fans, heathers, etc.
Trust me, office comfort does not take male viewpoints into account. Decoration, chairs, carpet colors, and AC settings, we never get asked.
2
Woman weighing in here. I've always been far too warm at work, no matter what my weight is or has been. I'm far happier and far more productive in a cooler (okay, a cold) office. The women in my office who constantly moan and complain it's soooooooo bitter cold at work should, perhaps, look at what they're wearing: a sundress, flip flops or sandals, sleeveless dresses or tops. It's far easier for you to just wear a sweater in the office--and maybe put on some warmer footwear--than it is for the larger percentage of the office to suffer because you're chilly. It's really easy for you to put on a sweater or wear a wrap than it is for me to sit on a block of ice! I have zero patience with the "waaaah! it's too cold!" crowd.
10
I'm a woman from the "'waaaah! it's too cold!' crowd." Of course I'm going to wear a sundress and sandals in summer—it's HOT outside. The issue is that I come into the office, where my workers have apparently decided to defy Mother Nature by creating an icy environment in the middle of summer. If the weather is hot, I'm going to dress in light clothes. If the weather is cold, I'm going to dress in heavy clothes. Offices need to accept the season rather than trying to defy it. There's no reason I should have to wear a sundress and sandals outside, but a sweater and corduroys inside all on the same day. What a waste.
I wish I could wear a sundress - flip flops etc. I come to work in a sweater - long shirt - long pants - coat - and I am still freezing. I sit under a cold air vent - that blows air on my head - all day long. Weight is not an issue - since I am very thin. I have complained to building management but nothing changes. It may be "really easy" for me to put on a sweater - but it doesn't do a darn bit of good.
There's no reason I should have to wear a sundress and sandals outside, but a sweater and corduroys inside all on the same day. What a waste.
actually there is. That is that men need to wear suits in offices.
actually there is. That is that men need to wear suits in offices.
A cold office was one of the worst parts of working for a huge multi-national corporation. Thank goodness those days are in the rear view mirror.
6
I'm female, and I always prefer to be cool vs. warm--and I've been that way my entire life. If you're cold, you can always add clothing/layers. How much clothing would you like me to remove when I'm at work?
And to the 'researcher' who talks about women and their cleavage, I'm appalled that a scientist points to that when men's chests are often exposed as much or more than mine (the guys at our company don't wear ties, but there are plenty of polo and button-down shirts that aren't closed up to the collar. Makes me wonder where half of the other people commenting are working...
And to the 'researcher' who talks about women and their cleavage, I'm appalled that a scientist points to that when men's chests are often exposed as much or more than mine (the guys at our company don't wear ties, but there are plenty of polo and button-down shirts that aren't closed up to the collar. Makes me wonder where half of the other people commenting are working...
1
Adding clothing doesn't do it sufficiently. Your hands are freezing (good luck using a computer) and the air drawn into your lungs is freezing (hello respiratory problems.)
In an office (work) situation I would be quite peeved if I'm forced to over-heat because women need to wear sandals, skirts and show cleavage.
That said, as a Man with less that 7% body fat (ie. heat-retaining insulation) I tend to get cold quick and heat up quick.
I'm also confident that NONE of the offices I've worked in are set by the formula given - or any formula. The thermostats are set by those who are close to them - often for their comfort.
Add a desktop computer or two and you will find the formula (from the '60s huh?) is skewing hot - as has been my experience in strained summer offices.
Movie theaters are a different story - Turn up the heat!
That said, as a Man with less that 7% body fat (ie. heat-retaining insulation) I tend to get cold quick and heat up quick.
I'm also confident that NONE of the offices I've worked in are set by the formula given - or any formula. The thermostats are set by those who are close to them - often for their comfort.
Add a desktop computer or two and you will find the formula (from the '60s huh?) is skewing hot - as has been my experience in strained summer offices.
Movie theaters are a different story - Turn up the heat!
3
No, a sweater won't do it. Would you like to see me at my desk wearing gloves and a hat?
2
Sure thing, sounds quite classy. :-)
It's a lot easier to add clothes than take them off.
Some women need a lower thermostat, as well. I have PCOS which means my metobolism is more like that of men, and i get hot more easily. I despise it when women who do not have this problem want heat turned ON inside buildings that quickly get stuffy. Many women who have PCOS or related conditions do not appreciate warm work environments.
2
As a male, I keep a sweater in the office for cold days, winter or summer. But I've also learned once changes are made in the building set up, what ever plan the HVAC engineers had in mind when they designed the building is kaput.
3
Really. Is there anything for which men are not at fault?
4
no. Men are to blame for everything, including the fact that women are "forced" to wear shoes with heals, their emphasis on brand name fashion and their having their hair and nails done.
Evil, evil men!
Evil, evil men!
1
I've worked with people who have had both a space heater and a desk fan in their work space who complained that their legs were cold and torso was too hot.. at the exact same time. People are strange.
3
First, has the increased incidence in obesity over the past 2 decades been considered? A greater body volume to surface area ratio would tend to raise the core body temperature. Second, if we raise temperature in the summer, to save energy and move toward a more equitable ambient temperature, does that allow us to lower or at least maintain it, for the winter?
Immediately following that inane article about "RBF," New York Times readers are now treated to this: offices have the air conditioning turned up too high because of -- what else!? -- Sexism.
New York Times: are you actively trying to make me cancel my subscription?
New York Times: are you actively trying to make me cancel my subscription?
4
For the women that cannot handle the cold, We very warm blooded men are sorry, but look on the bright side , you burn tremendous amounts of calories trying to keep your body warm, without gloves, jackets and sweaters, .
2
I fully appreciate a father calling his daughter a princess, but in his heart he was not being historical.
I know, each day Emergency Rooms across the nation treat dozens, if not hundreds of hypothermic victims forced to work 8 hours a day in 70 degree environments.
Personally, I kinda like to see professional attire worn in an office, especially if a family member's health or legal status are at stake.
I know, each day Emergency Rooms across the nation treat dozens, if not hundreds of hypothermic victims forced to work 8 hours a day in 70 degree environments.
Personally, I kinda like to see professional attire worn in an office, especially if a family member's health or legal status are at stake.
70 degrees does not produce hypothermia in a clothed adult, unless we are talking major wind chill velocity; citations, please.
Dr. M,
70 woulld not produce hypothermia in a healthy naked adult either.
70 woulld not produce hypothermia in a healthy naked adult either.
I see the point. But what about menopausal and post-menopausal women? (Seems that most of the women interviewed happen to be young.) I am often broiling, while my husband is freezing. We are 59 and 65 years old, respectively.
4
In my office EVERYONE is cold year-round; men and women, all ages and all body types. Quit assuming this is just an issue of women wearing inappropriate clothes. Obviously, this occurs, but that's not the case in my workplace or in a couple of others I've visited lately.
4
The main issue isn't metabolic rates its dress. In business many men wear wool suits or even in these less formal times a button down long sleeve shirt with wool pants. Women on the other hand often times have sleeveless blouses or lightweight materials (like silk) that men don't have.
1
I try to be understanding about someone else's discomfort but anyone who is cold has multiple solutions, i.e., wear a sweater, make a cup of tea, etc. When it's stuffy/hot in the office I'm far less productive. BTW, I'm a woman and if the Facilities team knows what's good for them, they will back away from the thermostat.
3
When it's 80-90 degrees outside, I shouldn't have to wear a sweater or make a cup of tea to stay warm in the office. That's absolutely ridiculous.
You're certainly entitled to believe it's ridiculous, but wouldn't it be more practical to have a sweater hanging on your chair? I've got several. I don't complain about the temperature when I have the means to address it. When it's too warm, I don't have any recourse.
How many offices turn to a formula to set the temperature? You're telling me that in most buildings it's not just the custodian or manager adjusting the thermostat?
1
what's worse is that when you put on blanket, the male supervisor the tell you that you are not looking professional ...
1
It's not because he's a male, it's because sitting huddled up in a blanket does not look professional, unless you are a professional Sherpa.
perhaps immigration laws should change and permit a large inflow of Sherpas. Then mentalities regarding business attire can change.
Most space heaters (mentioned in many letters here) are not legal in most commercial office space due to fire codes.
1
It's either a space heater or a very unhappy freezing cold employee. I'm keeping my heater thank you.
There are many women who love air conditioning and some even have more powerful add ons put in their offices for more "cool".
What is this industry where all of the commenters work and where all the women are wearing "cleavage tops," shorts, and flip-flops? Also, what, exactly, is a "cleavage top"?
1
Offices are generally too cold. How about putting in some ceiling fans? I work from home and often I can leave my A/C off because the ceiling fan is doing the job. Ceiling fans don't work with tiled ceilings? Redesign. Windows don't open? Put in some solar shades.
A First World complaint if there ever was one. Wear slacks, bring a sweater. And, women of the First World, when do you stop blaming everything on men? For a true chauvinist existence, move to the Third World. It's a lot warmer too.
3
I agree with the author's point that women shouldn't face uncomfortable temperatues. But, as pointed out in the article, it's easier to dress up for cold weather than it is to dress down for hot.
I work in an office that requires me to wear a suit every day. And while I would LOVE to wear less, it just isn't possible until management makes that call.
So, are these researchers will to reach out to my CEO? Then I'll consider supporting this.
Unfortunately this is the reality we face. Would you rather work in an office where some women need to dress in layers or in an office full of hot sweaty men? Consider the stench.
I work in an office that requires me to wear a suit every day. And while I would LOVE to wear less, it just isn't possible until management makes that call.
So, are these researchers will to reach out to my CEO? Then I'll consider supporting this.
Unfortunately this is the reality we face. Would you rather work in an office where some women need to dress in layers or in an office full of hot sweaty men? Consider the stench.
If a person is too hot, they can wear warmer clothes. If too cold, not much can be done if the person is already wearing short sleeves. A colder office is better for everyone. Perhaps the solution is more heating and cooling zones where temps can be adjusted more finely for each office area.
The problem here is not the thermostat settings but the lack of sufficient zone control in buildings. Open office plans and very large temperature control zones are the problem. They exist not because of sexism but simply so called "value engineering" which is engineering jargon for cutting corners in construction.
The building owners do not want to pay for office walls or multiple temperature mixing boxes to provide enough temperature control zones to allow everyone to be comfortable. So the person with the thermostat gets to set the temperature for everyone and that setting in a overly large zone results in hot and cold spots/
Men suffer too when the zone is controlled to overheat spaces in winter.
LEED certification is largely a joke. Ask any energy management engineer if their LEED certified building meets specifications. The answer is almost universally an emphatic "NO".
The building owners do not want to pay for office walls or multiple temperature mixing boxes to provide enough temperature control zones to allow everyone to be comfortable. So the person with the thermostat gets to set the temperature for everyone and that setting in a overly large zone results in hot and cold spots/
Men suffer too when the zone is controlled to overheat spaces in winter.
LEED certification is largely a joke. Ask any energy management engineer if their LEED certified building meets specifications. The answer is almost universally an emphatic "NO".
1
Temperature bias is unacceptable in this day and age! The only solution is to separate the men and women onto different floors.
2
Yeah -- maybe YOUNG women. All the women over 50 in my office are miserably warm, ALL YEAR -- in summer, the air conditioning is too feeble, in winter, the heat is wayyy too high.
Here is a newsflash: everyone is different. Maybe what we need are more individual controls.
Here is a newsflash: everyone is different. Maybe what we need are more individual controls.
2
or less range in the ages of employees.
A bit more balance would be nice. My doctor once told me that the core body temperature of a man is 2-3 degrees higher than that of a woman. I believe it.
Here's the thing. The photo shows this woman smiling. The truth is it is very unhealthy for your body to be stresses for 8 straight hours by freezing cold air vents blowing on you. I'm tired of this issue being presented as a half joke when its created a situation that makes me feel ill every day by the time I leave my office. Hire an expert and fix the oversized heating and cooling system. And stop bragging about our green office until we stop running space heaters year round.
5
I am 30 years old and I work in a professional office for one of Cleveland's largest companies. The majority of my office is female and 15+ years older than I am. Our office has rules on appropriate "business casual" attire for the warmer weather and the majority of the older women love the fact that the temperature is so cold (make your own inference with that). I, however, am currently in long pants, an undershirt, blouse and cardigan and am still freezing. I appreciate that women can simply put on more articles of clothing but at what point does it become excessive to expect me to use a blanket or space heater when I am already wearing multiple layers?
4
you need to confront those women, unlike the NY Times article that simply blames men!
I am so happy to see this article and others like them beginning to appear in the media. I have begged the university's Utilities & Energy Management department to save on energy by not over cooling their buildings.
The chart they publish as their Standards for Space eating & Cooling is summer Occupied 75 and winter occupied 68, but doesn't read that way in actuality.
This university applauds itself on being environmentally responsible, but fails on actually adhering to their standards. The bottom line is I freeze all summer and can never wear summer clothes to work even if it is 90 degrees out unless I want to layer on sweaters, socks etc.
The chart they publish as their Standards for Space eating & Cooling is summer Occupied 75 and winter occupied 68, but doesn't read that way in actuality.
This university applauds itself on being environmentally responsible, but fails on actually adhering to their standards. The bottom line is I freeze all summer and can never wear summer clothes to work even if it is 90 degrees out unless I want to layer on sweaters, socks etc.
Yes, indoor temps are usually set cooler than they need to be but as to the sexes, both sides share the blame. With occasional exceptions, there's rarely a need for men to go to work in a suit and tie...but like lemmings, they do. Many women on the other hand, take summer dress to the other extreme: flip flops and short sleeveless sundresses.
We need a little less clothing for the men and a little more for the women.
We need a little less clothing for the men and a little more for the women.
It's better to have those who are cold wear a sweater than to have others with more active metabolisms sweating and miserable. You can always put on more clothes, but there's a limit to how many you can take off in the workplace.
Also, lower temperatures make people more alert (desirable for employers) whereas warm temperatures do the opposite.
Also, lower temperatures make people more alert (desirable for employers) whereas warm temperatures do the opposite.
4
The happiest day of my working life was the day I was promoted and given my own office with its own, individual thermostat. I am happy, productive (warm) woman worker.
9
Right: And I guess it's all that cleavage in the office that's overheating the men!
1
The HVAC systems in many commercial buildings super cool the air to remove humidity then reheat it to a comfortable temperature. Some building owners may be reducing the reheat in an attempt to save money.
1
anyone who prefers personal cold to global warmth is inhuman (in the long run)
Ironically, I work in the same building as The New York Times and my office is currently so cold I can barely type...
24
The temp inside my Walmart store in Portland, Oregon?
Set by the "home office" in Bentonville, Arkansas. I wore a light cotton v-neck sweater to work everyday, over my "street clothes," aka dress-coded navy blue polo shirt, all under the uniform vest, to equalize the temperature and avoid or evade a job-threatening chill.
Now, THIS is news to me - I'm speechless: “The cleavage is closer to the core of the body, so the temperature difference between the air temperature and the body temperature there is higher when it’s cold. I wouldn’t overestimate the effect of cleavage, but it’s there.”
Set by the "home office" in Bentonville, Arkansas. I wore a light cotton v-neck sweater to work everyday, over my "street clothes," aka dress-coded navy blue polo shirt, all under the uniform vest, to equalize the temperature and avoid or evade a job-threatening chill.
Now, THIS is news to me - I'm speechless: “The cleavage is closer to the core of the body, so the temperature difference between the air temperature and the body temperature there is higher when it’s cold. I wouldn’t overestimate the effect of cleavage, but it’s there.”
1
It's undeniable that cleavage has powerful and wide-ranging effects.
2
@ Dan, not always.
1
You can put more clothes on, I can't work naked. I work in t-shirt, shorts and sandals and if it is over 75 in an office I'm drenched in sweat all day. I keep my home at 64. Please don't make it hotter.
7
How many offices are ever kept above 75 degrees.
Why is it that women are expected to use heaters but men aren't told to use fans?
Why is it that women are expected to use heaters but men aren't told to use fans?
if women expect you to work naked you must.
Heaters don't blow paper off your desk.
I'm not sure I buy the environmental argument here. Yes, it costs more to cool to a lower temp in the summer, but it costs more to heat to a higher temp in the winter. Obviously, the net impact will depend on your location, but in many areas of the country (Minnesota where I am for instance), maintaining a lower temp throughout the year would cost far less in energy than a higher temp.
Ideally, we should be adjusting both the temperature AND our clothing based on the season just like we do at home. This would lead to the most gender equitable, environmentally friendly, and comfortable outcome. Unfortunately old habits die hard.
Ideally, we should be adjusting both the temperature AND our clothing based on the season just like we do at home. This would lead to the most gender equitable, environmentally friendly, and comfortable outcome. Unfortunately old habits die hard.
It does seem that the women where I work complain more about being cold, but as others have noted, it's easier to add layers than take them away--and I'm not sure about the alternative. An office full of hot, sweaty, and smelly men?
Careful what you wish for.
Careful what you wish for.
4
My office is very cold. I dress warmer for the summer months than I do for the winter months. I wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts (as well as a t-shirt under my shirt), closed toe shoes and a sweater. I refuse to wear leggings under my pants in July and August. I have had the air vents around me closed, and use a space heater as well as a heated foot rest. It is cruel and unreasonable to keep the temperature so cold during the warmer months. I don't expect to sit around in a tank top and shorts, but I certainly do not expect to have to be colder in August than in February. I believe the temperature should be kept at the same level all year round. During the winter it is 72 degrees in the office and men are wearing shirts and ties, why should it be colder during the summer?
This is a huge problem for mostly female employees. It is outrageously wasteful and counterproductive
This is a huge problem for mostly female employees. It is outrageously wasteful and counterproductive
8
How interesting that so few of the comments are about the poor design of today's office buildings. It's not a men vs. women issue really. The designs of current cubicle farms are not comfortable for anyone - temperature control is not possible. Why do we expect people to work and be productive in such spaces?
5
Because work places aren't supposed to be comfortable unless you have a corner office? Or maybe it's because in America we just don't care about designing pleasant places to work or live for the worker bees.
3
I am reminded of a friend who, when visiting my apartment in NYC in January, complained of the cold. She was dressed in a t-shirt, thin cotton pants, and sneakers without socks. In her defense, she grew up in LA and had not yet adjusted to reality.
4
It is much easier to warm up if you're cold at work than it is to cool down if you're too hot. Keep buildings as cool as possible, and wear sweaters if you're cold.
Also, people are more productive in cold weather than in warm weather. Keeping things slightly on the chilly side will help fight post-lunch drowsiness.
Also, people are more productive in cold weather than in warm weather. Keeping things slightly on the chilly side will help fight post-lunch drowsiness.
5
In my office the ladies all have blankets just like Ms. Mahannah. I've often teased them about this. Until today. I was freezing this morning and I eventually looked at the thermostat and some genius had turned it down to 55 degrees!!! This coming from a 6'2" 220lb male.
5
When I was working in Dubai, I noticed that you could buy men's suits that were made of a very light-weight wool - to deal with the extreme heat outdoors (the offices themselves were air conditioned). It sounds odd to be wearing wool to keep cool, but those suits were very comfortable.
I've never seen suits made of this extremely light-weight wool for sale here in North America. But it could be that if men wore lighter suits, that they would be able to tolerate a slightly temperature in the summer, and narrow the gap that seems to existing between men and women as to what is an appropriate temperature in office buildings.
I've never seen suits made of this extremely light-weight wool for sale here in North America. But it could be that if men wore lighter suits, that they would be able to tolerate a slightly temperature in the summer, and narrow the gap that seems to existing between men and women as to what is an appropriate temperature in office buildings.
4
Any idea how many ounces that wool was rated at? "Wool tropicals" in suits are sold all over the United States. Is Cobourg somewhere else?
Yeah, not only that, there are other fabrics that suits can be made of that are less warm than wool, for example linen or seersucker fabric. So, even if a suit is absolutely needed, there are ways around it.
You can get tropical weight suits- but not in most stores. Have the suit made- no problem but $$$. You could probably pay for a trip to Thailand, Seoul, or Hong Kong with a whole wardrobe purchase.
A lot of the men in the comments are complaining about how they would get hot if they were to wear a suit in the office if the office thermostat were to change. But I don't believe that would be true, at least after an adjustment period. With the over-air conditioning of today's office buildings, there is no way to get used to the summer heat - you're in the cold all day and then in the hot when outdoors, then back into the cold when in your car or house because you can't stand the heat. There's no way to adjust your body to any temperature. However, if we upped the temperature of the office buildings to be a little warmer -although rough at first - we would get used to the heat. When I was in Israel I was dying in the upper 80s but everyone there was wearing jeans because that was a cold spell for them. By the time I got back from two weeks overseas, the eighties in America was breezy to me. We adapt when in consistent temperatures, but we can't when in wildly disparate temperatures multiple times a day.
25
Ah the beloved Thermostat Wars. Given the pathetic state of most office AC it is either too cold, too hot, or too cold here, too hot there. Do not sit by a window, (even in new buildings), and please do not go into a large computer room or a lab with sensitive electronic equipment.
This is not the "battle of the sexes", it is the battle of that unappreciated field, (which really does not exist), indoor climatologists. And I can not close without the immortal words "The best laid schemes..."
This is not the "battle of the sexes", it is the battle of that unappreciated field, (which really does not exist), indoor climatologists. And I can not close without the immortal words "The best laid schemes..."
1
Why can't we design anything that has decent ventilation period? Almost every building I've ever worked in in the United States has one or, usually more, of the following problems: inadequate air circulation, poor heating and ac balance where it's too hot in one part of the building and too cold in the other regardless of the season, bad smells, excessive dust (if you wear contacts you can really feel it), hot stairways, and unhappy people as the end result.
While I loathe hot weather and I can understand the need for ac and heat, we could design our living spaces with an eye towards using less AC. What ever happened to strategic placement of windows (i.e. cross ventilation), and ceiling fans, or roofs that aren't black? What about designing skyscrapers and other workplaces for conservation and comfort? There a plenty of men out there who aren't comfortable either.
While I loathe hot weather and I can understand the need for ac and heat, we could design our living spaces with an eye towards using less AC. What ever happened to strategic placement of windows (i.e. cross ventilation), and ceiling fans, or roofs that aren't black? What about designing skyscrapers and other workplaces for conservation and comfort? There a plenty of men out there who aren't comfortable either.
4
Millions of women will be showing this article to male colleagues and companions to explain why they are always cold. Well done, New York Times.
From a real estate perspective:
1. Sustainable building design advocates individual or room-by-room temperature controls for thermal comfort. As well, building control systems can be used to fine-tune temperature settings as occupancy changes. Maastricht University has been a leader in studying the economic viability of sustainable property.
2. Commercial office design has reduced the space per employee considerably over the past 15-20 years. The trend is accelerating with the reduction of private offices in favor of "work benching" (the seating of employees at laptop friendly "work benches") complemented by spaces for collaboration and small rooms where privacy can be obtained. Thermal comfort models should be revised to reflect these trends.
From a real estate perspective:
1. Sustainable building design advocates individual or room-by-room temperature controls for thermal comfort. As well, building control systems can be used to fine-tune temperature settings as occupancy changes. Maastricht University has been a leader in studying the economic viability of sustainable property.
2. Commercial office design has reduced the space per employee considerably over the past 15-20 years. The trend is accelerating with the reduction of private offices in favor of "work benching" (the seating of employees at laptop friendly "work benches") complemented by spaces for collaboration and small rooms where privacy can be obtained. Thermal comfort models should be revised to reflect these trends.
1
It is an unfortunate aspect of the laws of thermodynamics that it is easier to add heat than it is to remove it.
People who are comparatively cold compared to others have a choice - they can put on additional clothes, a hat, gloves, etc. People who are too hot are out of luck. A fan, perhaps, is the best choice. Given that being too warm is a perfect way to ensure sleepiness and hence lack of productivity, I respectfully suggest to those who feel cold in office environments that they simply put on a sweater. It's trivially easy to keep a few at work for those days when you feel cold.
People who are comparatively cold compared to others have a choice - they can put on additional clothes, a hat, gloves, etc. People who are too hot are out of luck. A fan, perhaps, is the best choice. Given that being too warm is a perfect way to ensure sleepiness and hence lack of productivity, I respectfully suggest to those who feel cold in office environments that they simply put on a sweater. It's trivially easy to keep a few at work for those days when you feel cold.
4
Be thankful you have air conditioning. Try teaching in a third floor classroom with closed windows and the body heat of 25 sweaty kids who just came in from recess. Conditions in some city schools are borderline inhumane. Conditions that no other profession would tolerate as a workplace environment. Any talk of year-round schooling is nothing more than a pipe dream until all classrooms are air conditioned. Billions wasted on testing could have gone a long way toward meeting this goal.
45
This is the principle reason that teachers vehemently reject changing the school calendar AT ALL. August in a classroom with a wall of western windows? I'd rather be in prison.
hum. I think women wear a lot of inappropriate clothing to the office. Sorry.
If men came in, in the equivalent attire they'd be shirtless wearing speedos. I have many female friends that love to complain about the temperature summer and winter, but I lose my sympathy with a woman who is wearing a sleeveless cotton dress four inches above the knee with a pair of sandals, in January complaining she's cold. And believe me there are plenty.
We might want to take a step back to work appropriate clothing before we evaluate anything on this issue. Let's try dressing for the office rather than an afternoon at the beach or a theme park and see where that gets us before we start jiggering the thermostat.
If men came in, in the equivalent attire they'd be shirtless wearing speedos. I have many female friends that love to complain about the temperature summer and winter, but I lose my sympathy with a woman who is wearing a sleeveless cotton dress four inches above the knee with a pair of sandals, in January complaining she's cold. And believe me there are plenty.
We might want to take a step back to work appropriate clothing before we evaluate anything on this issue. Let's try dressing for the office rather than an afternoon at the beach or a theme park and see where that gets us before we start jiggering the thermostat.
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If you're at a job where you're not regularly dealing face-to-face with customers or clients, then I'm fine with allowing everyone to dress more casually. I think there should be some limits, but allowing guys to wear more casual pants and a short sleeve shirt seems fine when they're just on the phone all day or at a computer.
I was an office manager for a large company of nearly 1,000 people. After constant complaints about it being too cold, almost entirely from women, I met with my manager and said "look over there. That woman weighs about 125 pounds. And over there. That man weighs at least 250. There is no way to keep them both satisfied."
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Office managers should just glue a few fake thermostats around the building. I guarantee people will swear up and down they notice a difference after "adjusting" the temperature.
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I am a consulting mechanical engineer familiar with both LEED and ASHRAE design principals. So often design considerations targeted at comfort promotion become "value engineered" out. We need more awareness out there. Articles like this will help correlate the complex interplay between comfort and energy consumption and better inform building owners and managers. We should be active participants inside our buildings and learn how to connect our actions to energy use. Its not just suit and tie everyday, but we need to have a reporting or feedback system so that occupants can adapt (dress appropriately) for different design conditions and we will see energy consumption go down significantly.
Josh - ENGVT
Josh - ENGVT
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This issue creates an opportunity to get rid of one of the most uncomfortable accessories ever devised for men to wear. It is a part of my work wardrobe that I loathe, and it keeps me craving frigid temperatures: The tie.
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Come to think of it, ties look like decorative nooses.
did you ever notice it's kind of similar to a noose?
Haha, is this an Onion article? Women can wear wool suits if they want, but men can't show up in a skirt and short sleeves. Chilly people can add layers, but you can't un-sweat-through a collar that is literally tied to your neck.
This seems like a reasonable thing to bring up to your office manager, but not to generalize about in the science section of the NYT.
This seems like a reasonable thing to bring up to your office manager, but not to generalize about in the science section of the NYT.
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In light of this and global warming (and the increases in energy consumption for A/C), can we all agree to move away from the business suit as standard business attire in the warmer months? Why put on a coat when its 90 degrees out or just to maintain comfort inside an office that is over-air conditioned to begin with?
Bermuda shorts anyone?
Bermuda shorts anyone?
6
Here's a joke (OK ... not a very good joke) I've heard a mechanical engineer who designs HVAC systems tell...
Question: How many thermostats are needed in an office building?
Answer: It's equal to the number of women who work there.
My own, completely unscientific, take on this is that men are trained from boyhood to not complain about discomfort. So ... until there is the equivalent of a thermostat for every individual, everybody dress in layers and set the general area thermostat on the high side (in summer) to save energy.
Question: How many thermostats are needed in an office building?
Answer: It's equal to the number of women who work there.
My own, completely unscientific, take on this is that men are trained from boyhood to not complain about discomfort. So ... until there is the equivalent of a thermostat for every individual, everybody dress in layers and set the general area thermostat on the high side (in summer) to save energy.
Based on the Japanese government's Cool Biz program (which sets a higher air conditioning temperature and tells men to not wear ties or jackets in the summer in order to conserve electricity), I have tried without success to get the university where I work to actively encourage men to dress more casually in the summer, especially to allow men to wear shorts at work without being stigmatized or penalized. If women are allowed to wear skirts but men are basically forced to wear pants in the office, this problem will never be solved.
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Maybe men's fashion designers can come out with a line of formal shorts and suit shorts.
America is pretty unique in the extreme air-conditioning we have in public spaces. I find it hard to sympathize with guys who are crying about how hot they are, when the rest of the world gets by without refrigerating their offices.
Yes, men should be allowed to wear short-sleeve shirts and forgo business suits in the summer. (in Japan they call this "cool biz" and it is nationally accepted) But let's not pretend that women just need to put on a sweater and our fingers will stop turning purple.
All of the whining from male commentators completely disregards the point of this article - that indoor temperatures are calculated based on men's body temperatures ALONE. In what world is that not inherently discriminatory?? It needs to change.
Yes, men should be allowed to wear short-sleeve shirts and forgo business suits in the summer. (in Japan they call this "cool biz" and it is nationally accepted) But let's not pretend that women just need to put on a sweater and our fingers will stop turning purple.
All of the whining from male commentators completely disregards the point of this article - that indoor temperatures are calculated based on men's body temperatures ALONE. In what world is that not inherently discriminatory?? It needs to change.
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A thousand times AMEN Carolyn! I've been getting so sick of the "just put on a sweater" arguments. And you're absolutely right - there are plenty of places in the world that don't have the "meat-locker" mentality American offices/malls/supermarkets/movie theaters do when it comes to cooling in the summer.
My daughter went to school in Houston (we are in the Bay Area). In 90+ days she would have to carry a sweater with her for the over-air conditioned buildings. Setting a building to 72 - 75 degrees when people are coming in from 90+ degrees outside is too great of a shock. Even I, an overheated man, couldn't take it.
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Absolutely correct. For comfort, set the a/c temp to about 10 degrees below the outside temperature for all but the hottest days. This amount of cooling along with the lowered humidity of cooled air will provide a good level of comfort combined with a reduced risk of shock when going out into the hot outside air.
Chris, 72-75 degrees? That would actually feel comfortable. Try 65! (If not lower!)
I can wear slacks, socks, shoes, top/shirt/blouse to the office from autumn through spring and be just fine. But I wear this same outfit in the summer and I'll be cold, sometimes freezing. This is because a couple of the men in the office can't handle any kind of heat. So yes, I have a space heater under my desk and a stash of wool sweaters.
3
Grew up in Phoenix. Air Conditioning is awesome! Having grown up in that climate, I can tell you that colder is better than potentially too warm. There isn't a single woman I know (myself included) who complains about AC -- ever. Anyone of us would be delighted to put a light sweater on in July! I would never wish any discomfort on men as well by changing the formula. Also, I'm tired of all of the AC bashing as of late. Live in the Southwestern desert for a few years. You'll see.
2
or...maybe so many people shouldn't live in the desert and expect to be cool or have a sufficient supply of water.
The difference between being hot and cold is that you can make yourself warmer by putting on nearly unlimited clothing. There's a limit to the amount of clothing you can take off to make yourself cooler. Keep the temperature where it is and put a sweater on.
NO YOU CAN'T just make yourself warmer by putting on nearly unlimited clothing. This is a fallacy that many, including you, think if you just spout it enough it will become true. If you are sitting at a desk and your hands are typing they have to stay uncovered, which defeats the whole object of putting all those blankets and sweaters on. I can sit with three layers on and still feel so cold I can't think of anything else. In the winter, when it's cold outside there may not be much I can do about it. It's beyond ridiculous to feel that way in the summer.
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