Something I didn't see in the article, recycling? If everyone just deposits their "trash" into the bin, are the co-mingled pieces just taken to the landfill without ever separating the recyclables? Anyone know an answer please leave a reply. Thanks
4
First, don't you think it's sad that when this gizmo breaks, we have to import workers from Sweden to fix it? Are there really no Americans who can be trained to repair pneumatic garbage pipes? If that's really true, we're hopeless as a civilization.
Second, shouldn't the garbage going through this system eventually be funneled into a place where it's converted to methane gas, so that we can get a second use out of all of it?
We can thank our city fathers, or our state leaders, or Washington, for not using our tax dollars for projects that can save the environment instead of trashing it.
Second, shouldn't the garbage going through this system eventually be funneled into a place where it's converted to methane gas, so that we can get a second use out of all of it?
We can thank our city fathers, or our state leaders, or Washington, for not using our tax dollars for projects that can save the environment instead of trashing it.
3
I have lived on Roosevelt Island 38 years and AVAC is probably the best innovation that the island had since 1975. The Sanitation Department operates the facility with many fewer staff than it would take to collect on street trash from our 29 buildings in 7 developmetns of residential buildings.
The building management companies have staff bring recyclables to the AVAC to be collected separately from the garbage.
Commercial businesses and stores cannot use AVAC so we still have those trucks lumbering thru the streets. The new Cornell campus is too distant for the current AVAC system to reach. They will have a "green campus" with old fashioned garbage trucks picking up their trash.
The building management companies have staff bring recyclables to the AVAC to be collected separately from the garbage.
Commercial businesses and stores cannot use AVAC so we still have those trucks lumbering thru the streets. The new Cornell campus is too distant for the current AVAC system to reach. They will have a "green campus" with old fashioned garbage trucks picking up their trash.
2
Nothing stops Cornell from installing a new system. They could then barge the containers with no garbage trucks down Main St. and truly using "advanced" tech since that's what they're supposed to be about.
2
Has any study been undertaken to determine the number of workers not needed because of this program and how much annual income has been denied these workers?
1
Not sure I understand your point. You can't deny income to workers you haven't hired. Surely you're not suggesting this system is no good because it employs too few people?
12
Do you or your spouse work for a union?
3
Wow. Maybe we should ban all innovation entirely.
7
More than 600 working systems world - wide. 60 year track record with no significant accidents. Modern AVACS systems recycle, including organic waste. Roos. Isl. system is 40 years old, reliability is well established. Data collection of who throws what, how often and how much, possible so that better solid waste management is feasible with feedback identifying excess waste generators. Data base could facilitate "pay as you throw", a proven strategy for reducing waste generation.
Should be part of any new large development proposals in NYC.
Should be part of any new large development proposals in NYC.
15
Pneumatic collection program invites an evolution to align with modern waste reduction strategies. As waste management focuses toward Zero Waste goals where no waste is left, the pneumatic tubes may run empty some day. A new vision for the tubes would be to carry separate recyclables, organics and any "trash" that is left. Even for suburban communities, modern waste management which now use one truck for organics, one for single stream and a final for trash could benefit from energy efficiency that might be embedded in this approach.
2
The author's notion of "Soviet-style housing" was actually designed by Philip Johnson, John Johansen and Josep Lluís Sert. He's entitled to his opinion, even if it is wrong.
5
how does the fact that the project was designed by three westerners negate his opinion that it's reminiscent of soviet housing?
3
Let's do the math. Ten tons of trash is collected daily from 12,000 residents. Without my calculator, I would say that is approximately 1.66 pounds of trash per resident per day. Is this average ? Just curious.
3
No, it is suspiciously low. Upper East size is more like 5 lbs.
2
Wow, that's a lot of trash aka garbage. Is that trash per resident varying from location to location and from one demographic to another demographic? Pun intended or not intended?
2
for a normal american 1.66 definitely is not. In the mid 2000s it was more like 2X to 2.5X that (I worked at a civil engineering firm that did some work on forecasting garbage).
2
It's remarkable that the Times found two Roosevelt Islanders who don't know what the AVAC is, so it is a surprise that the fact that the system in the Westview building (one of the original structures, with upwards of 300 units) has been out of commission for months went unnoticed. Instead of the chutes, there are black plastic bags in the AVAC rooms that the building staff has to collect and dispose of several times a day. Building management says that repairs are the responsibility of RIOC (the NY State agency that "operates" Roosevelt Island and RIOC says its responsibility is to "help" the building management.
5
Nice, tidy way of collecting and transporting garbage. Too bad there isn't a nice, tidy way of disposing of it when it reaches the end of its journey--wherever the nasty, methane-pumping landfill of choice may be. Many European countries now landfill a third of their garbage--some even less. We can't even seem to get a conversation going about it.
Talk about kicking the can down the road!! Literally and figuratively!!
Talk about kicking the can down the road!! Literally and figuratively!!
12
In our enormous modern cities the last thing we want to know about is their impact on the living Earth which is the source of all of life. The stupendous numbers of people and the quantities of stuff they engender in our absurdly consumerist society would shock us into a major rethinking of how we live, if only we weren't constantly conjuring clever ways of not knowing what we are doing. When the accounting comes due we will be overwhelmed and it will be far too late to pay the piper.
13
Amen to this - tossing the trash into a place where it magically disappears is a sure way to pretend that our enormously negative impact on the environment is not a problem whatsoever. Why assume any responsibility for stewardship of the earth when all you have to do is toss your trash down a chute and it immediately becomes invisible, undetectable, and no longer any of your concern? There's no incentive to reduce waste, to recycle, or to reuse. Please do not let this become a ubiquitous method of trash disposal. It's highly irresponsible and unsustainable.
9
we can go back to living in the stone age when most human produced "garbage" was biodegradeable. But we cannot. We need to produce and use far less products, especially electronics. smart phones, computers, ipods, ipads and similar devices all need to go.
2
Sounds like a great way for garbage disposal - no smells, no filthy dumpsters on the sidewalks, no deafening, irritating, mind-numbing noise and no rushing to park your cars from one side of your street to the other - all pros. But the downside is, we do not know if it is feasible. Is it possible to cover large areas and install so many tributaries into this underground system? Is it fail-safe? What happens if there is a technical problem leading to back-ups? All the inlets are points of weakness ? What happens if the tubes burst? Imagine the contamination and destruction of rivers, flora, fauna and lands for miles on end. Besides, who will and how is the system going to be financed? Will citizens comply if the towns mandate this disposal, knowing how the citizenry are averse to more rules and regulations? Besides, would'nt the money spent on a new system be better utilized to fix the existing crumbling infrastructure? Just thinking!!
4
I guess this is a case of out of *nose*, out of mind?? The photo of trash includes so much that is recyclable, including food waste. And the idea about the trash ending up being just carted away...where's away? Residents should be accountable for their trash. I'd love to live AND work on Roosevelt Island because then I could be hired to educate the residents about how to be present occupants, too. As the article points out, "the source is the same: People" -- So true! The source of bad behavior, the source of good behavior. And so it goes...away, I guess.
4
All new workers are cautioned to never press "Reverse".
3
We need a system like this for people. In Albany.
13
If and only if it uses less energy and doesn't motivate more waste, I'm for it...
2
Hopefully this concept one day comes to Manhattan. Nothing worse than coming out of a fancy restaurant and being greeted by a huge stinky pile of garbage on the street.
12
It a good thing this wasn't built today, with all the computers and software, it would be broken half the time.
Unfortunately, our future is not an intelligent somewhat evil HAL, but rather a dumb and dumber human engineered mistake filled bumbling piece of software.
Unfortunately, our future is not an intelligent somewhat evil HAL, but rather a dumb and dumber human engineered mistake filled bumbling piece of software.
5
Fun article. It would have been interesting to hear about the costs of this system vs. traditional trash collection. Given the benefits of this system over regular trash collection outlined in the article, it would seem a good idea to install systems like this much more extensively--but under which conditions does it make financial sense to do so and which not?
27
The article's mention about "heaping pile[s] of trash" reinforces the fact of Americans' general apathy about RECYCLING -- despite the fact that upwards of 90% of trash can, and should, be reused in order to preserve our nation's declining resources, including dwindling land space (too much of it used as trash landfills).
Not a day passes that Diligent Recyclers don't get sick as, peering into trash bins everywhere, we see "heaping piles" of paper, aluminum, plastic, glass,...
Not a day passes that Diligent Recyclers don't get sick as, peering into trash bins everywhere, we see "heaping piles" of paper, aluminum, plastic, glass,...
18
I read this interesting article with one question in mind, does the final product go into the sea? What happens to it?
2
It's picked up by the city and carted away in bulk.
1
The detail about these guys rescuing and rehabbing discarded house plants made me smile. Joy among the ruins.
Because I know more than I would like to know about how people mistreat animals, though, I wonder how often a pet ends up in that tube. Live animals get thrown down chutes too often. Is there any safety measure to guard against a live animal being pushed into the tube?
Because I know more than I would like to know about how people mistreat animals, though, I wonder how often a pet ends up in that tube. Live animals get thrown down chutes too often. Is there any safety measure to guard against a live animal being pushed into the tube?
7
Thank you for articulating my first horrified thought as I read this. I hope for a reassuring response, but I'm not holding my breath.
1
Doubtful. From the article, most people don't even know the tube system exists. They seem to understand that there is a garbage chute in their building, but they may have been under the impression that it leads to a conventional receptacle of some kind. Since their chutes appear normal and normal chutes don't have safety measures to keep people from throwing away a living thing (can't believe such a thing would even occur to a person), I doubt such measures exist in this case.
To be technically accurate, the vacuum is not pulling anything, the positive pressure behind the trash is pushing it.
20
To be technically accurate, it's the pressure gradient applied across a seal (the garbage) that moves the trash... but bravo for picking this nit.
6
I don't like this system at all. People should be forced to see and smell the tremendous amount of garbage that our wasteful society heedlessly creates. If people don't have to encounter their own profligacy then what hope do we have for any positive change in behavior and attitudes?
The solution to the garbage problem is not to make waste collection invisible and antiseptic; the solution is to prevent waste, period.
The solution to the garbage problem is not to make waste collection invisible and antiseptic; the solution is to prevent waste, period.
34
That's not a solution -- that's a wish.
Waste elimination is a pipe dream. reduction is fine and should be everyone's goal. Unfortunately, not every human on the planet wants to dwell on this problem. It's top of mind for some of us. But its unrealistic to expect that this issue is ever going to be top of mind with the majority of people.
Establishing efficient systems that manage the waste that humans have always and will always create is a worthwhile goal.
Bravo to this system.
Waste elimination is a pipe dream. reduction is fine and should be everyone's goal. Unfortunately, not every human on the planet wants to dwell on this problem. It's top of mind for some of us. But its unrealistic to expect that this issue is ever going to be top of mind with the majority of people.
Establishing efficient systems that manage the waste that humans have always and will always create is a worthwhile goal.
Bravo to this system.
31
I think everyone should be perfect, then we'd have no problems!
7
Most people have no clue what happens to their waste, and they don't want to know. You shove it down the chute or into the bin, and it's gone. Although I do have roadside pickup service for household waste and recycling, my rural life necessitates a weekly to the local dump, to deposit green waste and oversized recycle. So I do see the mountains of refuse, and it does prompt me to recycle every little thing that qualifies. The surprising thing, though, is that our dump is extremely tidy and organized. The workers even decorate the place with discards, and one fellow has assembled a sort of art installation. I am much more overwhelmed by the horrid realities of what humans throw away when I visit a huge city like New York, where garbage is piled on the streets. I suspect that residents just tune that out, over time. You see what you are willing to see, and make he connections you are able to accept.
2
Whether subway tunnels or pneumatic trash tubes, the most wondrous worlds in New York City always seem to be underground.
18