To my knowledge, I've never been told why the USA attacks Syria.
1
Foreign policy in the Middle East has apparently been based on the machinations of behind-the-scenes groups, and this has been top-secret, and extremely high-priority, for very many years. They just don't want the public to have any idea of what the real reasons are, behind what they have been doing. What else can explain the series of outcomes, which would seem to be completely bad, if you consider those outcomes in terms of anything that was ever said, for public consumption, about what pray tell, they would claim to have been any justification for the actions of the U.S. and its Western allies, or oil-enriched nation allies.
And from the point of view of the most-affected nations, like Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, these results have been so seriously bad that the U.S. actions quite seriously are totally unforgivable.
We have no more friends in the Middle East as a result of this. One wonders if those behind-the-scenes groups are sorry at all.
And from the point of view of the most-affected nations, like Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, these results have been so seriously bad that the U.S. actions quite seriously are totally unforgivable.
We have no more friends in the Middle East as a result of this. One wonders if those behind-the-scenes groups are sorry at all.
In honor of Rumsfield, "We don't know what we don't know (works)". Or, more succinctly, we don't know what works! We don't know who to support. We throw money, weapons, advisors, and troops at the conflicts, yet we remain in the quagmires. Our collective frustration should be rising, and Mideast police duties should be suspended or revoked.
What a mess we created!
This all the fault of the last administration.
This all the fault of the last administration.
Gee, what a surprise! Western (not just U.S.) foreign policy in that part of the world only makes sense when you realize it is motivated by a conflict with Iran and so no sensible course of action can be adopted. So we are subjected to continuous rhetoric about how bad the current regime in Syria is and no meaningful policies adopted that will help to end the misery there. It was never the right policy to destabilize Syria (look at the results) and it still isn't. Talk to Iran *and* Syria about how to actually help the people of Syria (Iraq, Libya, Yemen, etc., etc.). There is no other way.
you do realise its syria and its sponser iran is the primary cause for the bloodshed right?
My my, who possibly could have predicted? After all, Saddam is a dictator but at least the area is relatively stable. Oh, wait...
I assume that the Nusra Front is using weapons we left in Iraq or Libya or wherever.
Anyway, clearly this is all because of Hillary Clinton's e-mails, or Hillary Clinton's hairdo, or a Hillary Clinton's "sharp elbowed" (read, "harridan") comments, according to an unnamed source, an unnamed source, and an unnamed source.
I assume that the Nusra Front is using weapons we left in Iraq or Libya or wherever.
Anyway, clearly this is all because of Hillary Clinton's e-mails, or Hillary Clinton's hairdo, or a Hillary Clinton's "sharp elbowed" (read, "harridan") comments, according to an unnamed source, an unnamed source, and an unnamed source.
1
So Russian volunteer fighting in Ukraine and Chinese building island in South China Sea are wrong but US finance, train, arm insurgent groups and broker alliances with terrorist groups to overthrow an UN recognized government is perfectly ok?
I wonder if American Exceptionalism is so blindly bright it blinds those in Washington to the mess they created and trying to manage in Syria.
Maybe the Queen should revoke American independence as those in Washington clearly have no idea what they are doing.
I wonder if American Exceptionalism is so blindly bright it blinds those in Washington to the mess they created and trying to manage in Syria.
Maybe the Queen should revoke American independence as those in Washington clearly have no idea what they are doing.
2
This takes the Cake. America's endeavors in the Middle East have been failures from the very beginning. Now, this. How much deeper can we dig ourselves into a wrong and unwinable position??
You can't "buy" allies, or friends, or foreign "fighters".
You COULD have better Military Intellegence. And, we also could have a better Middle East Policy in the first place.
Bring all of our US Troops home, NOW. And this time, bring the guns and money home, too.
You can't "buy" allies, or friends, or foreign "fighters".
You COULD have better Military Intellegence. And, we also could have a better Middle East Policy in the first place.
Bring all of our US Troops home, NOW. And this time, bring the guns and money home, too.
2
Remember when the Shah of Iran fell in 1979 and it was revealed that no one in the American embassy spoke Farsee (The language of Iran). How many ears did America have on the ground in Syria waiting to hear the train that never came?
What the United States expects of AL Nusra Front fighters to take these flowers , these agent of the United States .
1
I wonder if the US will ever recognize the realities of the Syrian dilemma. Most Syrians be they Sunni,Shia,Christian or what ever ethnic or religious group want to see al-Assad remain in power.Even those who may be opposed to his policies fully realize that he is a legitimate ruler and the only source of stability remaining.He never acted as a murderous tyrant as Quadaffi or Mubarek. So the foreign policy establishment should get real and disband the toy soldiers and
2
Let them sort it out by themselves, we have no business over there.
2
This is a no win situation. Too many countries have disintegrated. Moses, Mohamed, Jesus please come down from wherever and straighten things out. Humans have made a mess of things.
2
August 1, 2015
In the words of former Secretary of Defense - the good Donald Rumsfeld - life is messy and as for the big guys - once was more than enought - these guys have one answer - work it out and grow up to reality for as is said a crisis is not an opportunity to waste.....
Faith is Faith is blood, sweat, tears, and then rejoice for we really know that being smart and nice is the only way to work it out and if not then - we are given the reporting on front page of our NY Times, indeed -and that is where the truth and beauty to our world begins - and let the divines ones smile on their wonders...
jja Manhattan, N, Y. I believe..... in the news fit for my everything....
In the words of former Secretary of Defense - the good Donald Rumsfeld - life is messy and as for the big guys - once was more than enought - these guys have one answer - work it out and grow up to reality for as is said a crisis is not an opportunity to waste.....
Faith is Faith is blood, sweat, tears, and then rejoice for we really know that being smart and nice is the only way to work it out and if not then - we are given the reporting on front page of our NY Times, indeed -and that is where the truth and beauty to our world begins - and let the divines ones smile on their wonders...
jja Manhattan, N, Y. I believe..... in the news fit for my everything....
1
August 1, 2015
We must sooner or later revisit the science of Social Darwin in terms of cultural style as to how to manage forthright its nature for successful opportunities to meet goals in Syria Iraq warring.
Those that are heroically intellectually expect to live moderate are facing in the heat of battles feeble - primitive paganism a collection of thugs. Admittedly these guys are caricatures as ISIS warriors and indeed reveal as if they are in the likeness of the Prophet as images are pervasive in world media that’s more the blasphemy. The moderates express themselves as modern educated integrated Islam as in the worlds majority of Muslims.....
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
We must sooner or later revisit the science of Social Darwin in terms of cultural style as to how to manage forthright its nature for successful opportunities to meet goals in Syria Iraq warring.
Those that are heroically intellectually expect to live moderate are facing in the heat of battles feeble - primitive paganism a collection of thugs. Admittedly these guys are caricatures as ISIS warriors and indeed reveal as if they are in the likeness of the Prophet as images are pervasive in world media that’s more the blasphemy. The moderates express themselves as modern educated integrated Islam as in the worlds majority of Muslims.....
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
Obama got Nobel Peace Prize to pulling out American troops from Iraq. Oh boy,what happened next is history.
3
August 1, 2015
There is superior news media like herewith at the New York Times - and that's raw reporting of events. Now history is define appropriately by the consensus of the educational institutions that compose the depth and breath of the events by the processing with the narrative that offers the fullness of knowledge comprehenisive and inculsive of all the best of professional interpretation for domestic and international substance as deliberate knowledge.
All news journalism is the first draft of history and good God willing President Obama in his post Presidental years can offer his volumes to the scholars and surely with excellent reporting herewith at the NYT.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
There is superior news media like herewith at the New York Times - and that's raw reporting of events. Now history is define appropriately by the consensus of the educational institutions that compose the depth and breath of the events by the processing with the narrative that offers the fullness of knowledge comprehenisive and inculsive of all the best of professional interpretation for domestic and international substance as deliberate knowledge.
All news journalism is the first draft of history and good God willing President Obama in his post Presidental years can offer his volumes to the scholars and surely with excellent reporting herewith at the NYT.
jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
The military forces of the United States are trained to have clear objectives and expect clear outcomes. Modern irregular warfare is not like this at all. The only real war that we have won in the past seventy years was in 1991 when Saddam Hussein formed lines of his tanks divisions in the desert and fought according to our own rules. No one is likely to do that again.
7
This mess has more sides than a geodesic dome and nobody has a scorecard designating which side the combatants are on at any given moment. I wish the Obama administration every success in managing the middle east it inherited, but, really - how does one manage chaos?
1
Obama, Syria and failure are synonymous.
Obama Doctrine of "speak loudly, do nothing and carry a selfie stick" doesn't seem to be working against the JV team.
Obama Doctrine of "speak loudly, do nothing and carry a selfie stick" doesn't seem to be working against the JV team.
8
Agreed. Since Cheney, Bush2, C. Rice, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are the first string of our Varsity brain trust which threw this party in our names, let's give them tins stars, six-guns and one way tickets to the ME, then stand aside as they clean up their mess. We could even let them deputize any of their contributors who are willing to take on the job personally. No doubt they would be able to report mission accomplished within six weeks.
8
Bush won the Iraq war. Obama inherited a stable Iraq and messed it up just like he has messed up everything he's involved in. Maybe Obama should draw a red line...
It is time for the U.S. government to put pressure on Turkey and Saudi Arabia to stop supporting the Sunni extremists in Syria and Iraq. Their support, in the aftermath of the U.S. war in Iraq, is the main reason why the war in Syria has lasted so long, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and displacing millions. The fact that the Turkish regime is bombing Kurdish militias, the main forces competent at fighting ISIL and other extremists groups clearly shows that Erdogan has no serious interest in fighting ISIL. The U.S. should call Erdogan on his bluff and his human rights violations in Turkey. Like Putin, Erdogan wants to maintain his grip on power at all cost.
8
As far as the Syrian affairs go the whole episode has been a monstrously huge intelligence failure for this administration — And it appears to be by choice. The administration sticks to the thinking pattern of a four-year old. "Sunni is bad, Shia is good." And their guiding light is Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan and it so happens in this case it does not apply. A murderous petty tyrant was allowed to kill, maim, hundreds of thousands of his countrymen, and dislocated five million of its citizens.
And we are talking about intelligence failure, that was the excuse Cheney, Rumsfeld, and miscreants like them came up with.
And we are talking about intelligence failure, that was the excuse Cheney, Rumsfeld, and miscreants like them came up with.
2
The second article in a week bearing barnard and Schmitt's bylines with anonymous military "experts" quoted under cover of anonymity with speculative ideas on how to approach Syria. Now we find out that our military experts have no idea who is on whose side.
There is no more proof positive necessary to demonstrate our ham handed approach has no effectiveness. We have no business being there, at all.
There is no more proof positive necessary to demonstrate our ham handed approach has no effectiveness. We have no business being there, at all.
5
I suppose no one has taken three or so hours out of their busy day to view Lawrence of Arabia.
Not that we can learn anything from history. Or the movies.
Not that we can learn anything from history. Or the movies.
1
Combat and war never looks as clean during as it does before and after. It's always messy during.
In the spring of 1966 I was stationed out past dog patch across the street from USMC HQ on hill 327.
I spent a day or two getting some city fighting advice from Marines as we prepared to go into DaNang and fight ARVNs. Units of the Army of SouthVietnam.
Yep our good friend yesterday we were getting ready to fight tomorrow.
It was a religious political dust up between south Vietnamese.
Did we care we thought we were going to fight our friends the ARVNs? Not a bit.
We or I was just happy we were not going back into the jungle.
I was a bit clueless about what it was like to fight in a city. But who we fought made not a wit of difference.
The second day they told us to stand down and we went back to fight the NVA.
In the spring of 1966 I was stationed out past dog patch across the street from USMC HQ on hill 327.
I spent a day or two getting some city fighting advice from Marines as we prepared to go into DaNang and fight ARVNs. Units of the Army of SouthVietnam.
Yep our good friend yesterday we were getting ready to fight tomorrow.
It was a religious political dust up between south Vietnamese.
Did we care we thought we were going to fight our friends the ARVNs? Not a bit.
We or I was just happy we were not going back into the jungle.
I was a bit clueless about what it was like to fight in a city. But who we fought made not a wit of difference.
The second day they told us to stand down and we went back to fight the NVA.
1
@Alpha Doc: "... we prepared to go into DaNang and fight ARVNs. Units of the Army of SouthVietnam."
"It was a religious political dust up between south Vietnamese."
Could you provide more details, such as the exact date? Why was the ARVN involved? Who were the other parties? Was there a coup attempt?
"It was a religious political dust up between south Vietnamese."
Could you provide more details, such as the exact date? Why was the ARVN involved? Who were the other parties? Was there a coup attempt?
Steve, I am not sure if it was considered a coup attempt or not.
Google the Buddhist Uprising 1966 Vietnam
And Or Google Gen Lewis Walt on the bridge
Gen Walt , the senior Marine in VN, as I remember the story, stood on a bridge with explosives between two different waring factions of ARVNs. He faced them both down.
Google the Buddhist Uprising 1966 Vietnam
And Or Google Gen Lewis Walt on the bridge
Gen Walt , the senior Marine in VN, as I remember the story, stood on a bridge with explosives between two different waring factions of ARVNs. He faced them both down.
1
1
A Nobel peace prize to anyone that comes up with a strategy in which rival factions of ISIS fight against, and annihilate, each other. Or maybe a Nobel prize in medicine for anyone that comes up with an airborne vector that can propagate and unbeknownst to the recipient modify genes of ISIS with love and kindness towards all people.
As a nation we have no empathy for the those who must survive in the societies and nations that we helped destroy. Unless future revelations indicate otherwise, we are not the engineers of Syria's destruction, but as a nation we see it as so "there" as opposed to even being remotely "here". "There" is the place we can drop bombs on targets at our discretion whether it be Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Syria, Libya, and hopefully, at some future time, Iran. "There" is a place where we can overlay America's "national interests" and deal as harshly and arbitrarily as we choose to minimize any harm to those interests.
At a time when we should be turning swords into solar panels and windmills, we are enriching our sword factories and keeping them very busy. Maybe things could change if among the millions of soundbytes programmed for the 2016 elections, a few thousand form Pope Francis could be mixed in. I'm not a Catholic, but he is my hero.
At a time when we should be turning swords into solar panels and windmills, we are enriching our sword factories and keeping them very busy. Maybe things could change if among the millions of soundbytes programmed for the 2016 elections, a few thousand form Pope Francis could be mixed in. I'm not a Catholic, but he is my hero.
2
“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official,
That is true for all of Obama's foreign policy disasters, heck for Obama's presidency in general. It could be the Obama administration's epitaph.
That is true for all of Obama's foreign policy disasters, heck for Obama's presidency in general. It could be the Obama administration's epitaph.
3
Why stop with the Obama Presidency? Keep turning those pages; its a long way back to 1898.
2
I want someone to tell me why we are paying the CIA such big bucks? They certainly don't deserve it as it appears they have no idea what they are doing in the Middle East. All I see is mistake after mistake followed by words such as "this was not supposed to happen". Come on - you have to be truly dumb not to see this would happen.
We want our Syrians to fight ISIS - radical groups like Jabat Al Nusra want to fight Assad and see our Syrians as opponents who are helping Assad by fighting ISIS. You don't need a PH. D in Middle East Affairs to figure that out.
Look at the mess we are not making in Turkey. We wanted to use that airbase so bad that we are letting Erdogan carry out his plan to dissolve the HDP party, hold new elections and make himself Sultan. And he is moving that along by attacking the PKK 10 time more frequently than ISIS.
But we forget. ISIS is Erdogan's ally - he still lets them cross his border, get medical care and rest. He tries to cover it up more, but he is still doing that. He wants ISIS to eliminate the Kurds on the battlefield, and he will eliminate them in the political arena so they don't ruin his majority in Parliament. You wait the next election, there will be no real political opposition to the AKP, Erdogan will get this majority and become Sultan. This will all be the fault of the US.
We need to get out of the Middle East, we simply don't know how to deal with it. All we get is blowback.
We want our Syrians to fight ISIS - radical groups like Jabat Al Nusra want to fight Assad and see our Syrians as opponents who are helping Assad by fighting ISIS. You don't need a PH. D in Middle East Affairs to figure that out.
Look at the mess we are not making in Turkey. We wanted to use that airbase so bad that we are letting Erdogan carry out his plan to dissolve the HDP party, hold new elections and make himself Sultan. And he is moving that along by attacking the PKK 10 time more frequently than ISIS.
But we forget. ISIS is Erdogan's ally - he still lets them cross his border, get medical care and rest. He tries to cover it up more, but he is still doing that. He wants ISIS to eliminate the Kurds on the battlefield, and he will eliminate them in the political arena so they don't ruin his majority in Parliament. You wait the next election, there will be no real political opposition to the AKP, Erdogan will get this majority and become Sultan. This will all be the fault of the US.
We need to get out of the Middle East, we simply don't know how to deal with it. All we get is blowback.
1
An American Intelligence failure in the Mid-East!!!!
Hold the Presses!
Somebody call Oprah!
Did anyone in Washington DC ever read Tom Friedman's from Beirut to Jerusalem???
Backing anyone during an Islamic tribal war is a non-starter.
These guys get excited attempting to out savage another Islamic armed militia.
Dear Pentagon,
The most effective way to protect America;s security at home is to remain out of the line of fire in the Mid-East. Staying out of cross-fires and friendly-fires would also be an outstanding burst of intuition.
Supporting Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Pakistan would also be a profoundly flawed
idea.
Sincerely,
Steve
Hold the Presses!
Somebody call Oprah!
Did anyone in Washington DC ever read Tom Friedman's from Beirut to Jerusalem???
Backing anyone during an Islamic tribal war is a non-starter.
These guys get excited attempting to out savage another Islamic armed militia.
Dear Pentagon,
The most effective way to protect America;s security at home is to remain out of the line of fire in the Mid-East. Staying out of cross-fires and friendly-fires would also be an outstanding burst of intuition.
Supporting Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Pakistan would also be a profoundly flawed
idea.
Sincerely,
Steve
The role of the U.S. in the Middle East is not easy. When America is not involved, people want it to take the lead. When the U.S. is involved, people want it out.
Also, it takes a lot longer than two terms in the White House to get something really done in the M.E. That makes it truly difficult.
Also, it takes a lot longer than two terms in the White House to get something really done in the M.E. That makes it truly difficult.
1
Not an "intelligence failure," but a policy failure. The Obama administration's absurd policy of doing little or nothing in Syria to stem the rise of BOTH ISIS and the al Qaeda affiliated al Nusra Front, which are equally anti-Western, radical and dangerous. Anyone, from the White House to the Pentagon who believed that an al Qaeda group would regard itself as a tacit ally of an American sponsored and trained group is a fool who has learned nothing from the past 20 years and should immediately be fired or resign.
3
The laws of the region are based on the Koran. We may not respect the book or its teaching, but it is the basis of culture and politics for the entire region. It clearly demands its adherents to expel all invaders with all haste. Yet, we persist in trying to stay on the ground in their countries. We are not just unwanted guests. We are invaders.
1
Ever since the Vietnam War, our foreign policy initiatives have led us to defeat as our leaders in both parties have aplied and executed military force to solve a crisis in interrnational relations. Having experienced and witnessed how a war can be spin out of control during my tour of duty in Vietnam as a naive, young man, I told civilians this war would be at best a military misadventure and at worst a major foreign policy blunder. Of course, they told me, especially the war hawks that wanted payback for the 9/11 attacks, that I was just a typical aging Vietnam veteran, who was frozen in time and trapped in the past. But now after just a decade, the Iraq War clearly rivals the Vietnam War as a major foreign policy debacle. Once again we have become victims of our own friendly fire. Hubris known as American exceptonalism to the neocon and liberal hawks who wanted this war has led us into yet another tragic quagmire as the unforeseen consequences of the Iraq War continue to spin out of control and to send so many shockwaves throughout the region. Never in my wildest imagination did I think our country would commit and prosecute such an ill-conceived and poorly prosecuted war as our leaders, both Presiedents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, have in the Iraq War. It sadly reminds me of that old adage: if you're a hammer all you see are nails.
2
Perhaps we can usefully supply a principle of gun control to our Middle Eastern "problem". The Obama administration has overseen sales of more than 180 billion dollars of weapons, mainly to the Middle East. We also are supplying, gratis, guns to "moderates." Let's stop.
The Middle East has become, visibly, a much worse place since the policy of unlimited arms sales, initiated under the Clinton administration, has held sway. The pretense that one can sell these weapons and retain control over their use and distribution is as delusional in foreign policy as it is in domestic policy. But it is much more dangerous in foreign policy.
The Middle East has become, visibly, a much worse place since the policy of unlimited arms sales, initiated under the Clinton administration, has held sway. The pretense that one can sell these weapons and retain control over their use and distribution is as delusional in foreign policy as it is in domestic policy. But it is much more dangerous in foreign policy.
1
Agreed. Unfortunately, it is sales to third parties (Saudi Arabia and Israel, among others) which keeps our MIC more or less solvent and unquestionably profitable for investors as it proceeds from boondoggle to boondoggle. Without the economies of scale resulting from those foreign sales, how could we produce enough LCS-whatevers, F-whenevers, H-whichevers and M-whyevers to spread the (military readiness) loss inherent in present and future generations of dud platforms and weapons we build for the benefit of the MIC and its investors, domestic and foreign?
1
Military Industrial Complex......the only winners.
5
> A Syrian insurgent group at the heart of the Pentagon’s effort to fight the Islamic State came under intense attack on Friday from a different hard-line Islamist faction
Note to NYT editor . . . the US-backed group is not a hard-line Islamist faction, contrary to what the passage above indicates to readers.
Note to NYT editor . . . the US-backed group is not a hard-line Islamist faction, contrary to what the passage above indicates to readers.
3
Good point. According to NewsDiffs[1], the first sentence in an earlier version of the article made more sense:
"... , not from Islamic State militants but from a different hard-line Islamist faction, the Al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front."
But that is inaccurate, because the article later says that the US was concerned about "attacks by Islamic State or Syrian Army forces".
The Times should have simply said that Division 30 was unexpectedly attacked by Nusra Front.
[1] http://newsdiffs.org/diff/947733/947877/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world...
"... , not from Islamic State militants but from a different hard-line Islamist faction, the Al-Qaeda-linked Nusra Front."
But that is inaccurate, because the article later says that the US was concerned about "attacks by Islamic State or Syrian Army forces".
The Times should have simply said that Division 30 was unexpectedly attacked by Nusra Front.
[1] http://newsdiffs.org/diff/947733/947877/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world...
Long after the disastrous failures of the Zimmerman telegram and associated spying by German Imperial agents, who snookered, and made cats paws of the US , and after the unfortunate lack of American foresight concerning Japan in the 1940's, the "special" agencies , beginning with the CIA, instituted to prevent "any possibility of another Pearl Harbor", the US has shown repeatedly that it is incapable of foreseeing the events of nations and peoples outside of the US. most American agents are pulled from law enforcement backgrounds and have little experience of foreign nations or languages.
THe fact is, sadly, that the US cannot "do intelligence".
THe US is a democratic government made of numerous small states, each of which sees itself as the absolute center of the universe. Representatives from states go to Washington to play at government but have no idea how , or even why, the rest of America or the world works, or even if it should. We have not grown out of our regionalism but have become ever more comfortable with out queerness and peculiarities.
So no one should ever be surprised that the government and agencies of the US are totally incapable of doing any sort of intelligence work. We are far too busy reading internet reports and watching cable news stories about ourselves.
THe fact is, sadly, that the US cannot "do intelligence".
THe US is a democratic government made of numerous small states, each of which sees itself as the absolute center of the universe. Representatives from states go to Washington to play at government but have no idea how , or even why, the rest of America or the world works, or even if it should. We have not grown out of our regionalism but have become ever more comfortable with out queerness and peculiarities.
So no one should ever be surprised that the government and agencies of the US are totally incapable of doing any sort of intelligence work. We are far too busy reading internet reports and watching cable news stories about ourselves.
3
If the attack "took Americans by surprised," it was because Washington has for years been in a barely concealed alliance with al-Nusra, delicately referred to here as a "hard-line Islamist faction," but in reality Al Qaeda in Syria. So much for the war on terrorism.
3
The intelligence failure is the WH past and present.
4
Fair is fair, Bob. Share the love with Congress, too.
1
US strategy is misguided in Syria in trying to differentiate between ISIS and Al Nusra Front. Both groups, along with other Islamist groups, are one and the same ideologically. What is also common among them is their quest to establish an Islamic state in Syria with no democratic freedoms and rights. The irony is that Al Nusra and its sisters are all financed and supported by America's allies in the Region.
You can not build a viable strategy on such contradictions and hope you will prevail.
You can not build a viable strategy on such contradictions and hope you will prevail.
6
The alliances and factions in the region cannot be known; hence our involvement will only be self defeating. The problem is our oil addiction, and we must persuade the military industrial complex to reveal the alternative energies they have already discovered, so that oil will no longer keep us tied to a insane part of the world.
2
" This should'nt have happened ". Really? This is what is happening all the time in the ME. The people remain the same, affiliations change every second, new groups form who we have ben trained and supplied with our arms, turn against us more brutal with every change and the ME conundrum keeps on deepening.Then the saga repeats and continues. Why don't we just admit we are clueless and get the hell out of there? We most certainly are not helping the people. In fact, we are just adding fuel to the fire. We are surprised. Now that is really surprising. When are going to learn? After the entire ME explodes and leaving a region of graves? We have to leave - NOW!!!
4
Pertaining to the American officials whom "had expected the Nusra Front to welcome Division 30 as an ally in its fight against the Islamic State", either had been really deceived or had trusted too easily. After reading the article I feel that it relates back to the time when European settlers had "tried to 'plant it's hands'" inside America and how the Native Americans must have felt then. In this sense it would definitely be understandable why the Nusra Front would attack Division 30 and why the "other groups in the area failed to come to Division 30's aid". Although the attack was unexpected and apparently uncalled for, I feel that the Nusra Front and Division 30 or the American officials should have had a proper sit down before anything would have happened.
Another example of a failed attempt in the Middle East by the United States. The list continues to grow longer each day with Egypt, Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan. When are we going to learn that the US can't influence what is going on in the Middle East?
We pay Netanyahu of Israel $3 billion dollars a year in military funding only to have Netanyahu tell us to kiss his butt. Also why is it that the US is the only country that engages in the conflict in the Middle East? Where is Russia or China?
Assad and Russia are supposedly allies, but yet there is no evidence in Syria that Putin and his military is helping Assad. Assad said the other day that his rank and file in the military is very thin which means he needs help. Why isn't Russia more engaged in Syria? Russia has a naval base in Syria.
Perhaps, the US should take a lesson from Russia and China.
We pay Netanyahu of Israel $3 billion dollars a year in military funding only to have Netanyahu tell us to kiss his butt. Also why is it that the US is the only country that engages in the conflict in the Middle East? Where is Russia or China?
Assad and Russia are supposedly allies, but yet there is no evidence in Syria that Putin and his military is helping Assad. Assad said the other day that his rank and file in the military is very thin which means he needs help. Why isn't Russia more engaged in Syria? Russia has a naval base in Syria.
Perhaps, the US should take a lesson from Russia and China.
3
Putin's Russia is too busy reabsorbing non-Russian republics of the Russian federation and former non-Russian SSRs of the former Soviet Union to divert muscle south at present. Once it has all of those eggs back in its basket, expect the Bear to turn its gaze south once again.
1
So in Iraq the Turks (our friends) are now killing the Kurds (our friends) and in Syria two of our allies against ISIS are chasing each other. Meanwhile we have Syria President Assad killing whatever bothers him and Obama has no idea how to stop that. But fortunately we are friendly now with two Middle Eastern superpowers there, Iran and Saudi Arabia, although the expression "three is a crowd" seems to be raising its ugly had in Yemen. In the mean time, as a side show on the three ring circus, we have thousands of refugees from the Middle East entering Europe creating a panic during there at the start of summer vacation.
With all due respect to Obama, his inner circle at the White House, Departments of State and Defense, FBI, and CIA, we have absolutely no idea. what we are doing, why, and why not.
With all due respect to Obama, his inner circle at the White House, Departments of State and Defense, FBI, and CIA, we have absolutely no idea. what we are doing, why, and why not.
6
If there has been incompetence it should be laid at the door of those who began this ill advised war. More of the same is not going to help. I don't know what will and I don't think anyone else does either. Too bad that those who spoke against involvement before the war and warned about a culture we did not and do not fully understand , who warned about kicking the hornet's nest, were ignored.
3
No syrian worth his salt should trust obama and his government. They have been betrayed since 2011 when they took up arms against assad. Back then there was no nusra and ISIS and still they were betrayed by obama so that he could get a deal with iran.
I feel sorry for syrians who still put their hope on the united states of america. This is not Bill clinton's america anymore. Not the ones who saved bosnians and kosovars. This is a cynical america now
I feel sorry for syrians who still put their hope on the united states of america. This is not Bill clinton's america anymore. Not the ones who saved bosnians and kosovars. This is a cynical america now
11
From Vietnam to Syria, America has demonstrated an exceptional ability to identify the least motivated effective competent honest popular individuals and groups as allies. The inability of the American national security defense establishment to detect and prevent the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 is emblematic of the inherent unaccountable depths of the problem.
6
They were the only ones who would have us.
Why was that? It was us. No winner would be associated with us.
Why was that? It was us. No winner would be associated with us.
1
Supporting splinter groups is a self-defeating strategy. Unless surrounding countries like Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iran ( Yes Iran) commit their own ground forces to eradicate the menace of ISIS, all our efforts will be useless. Let these countries take the lead and we support them. If they don't , then let them feel the heat of ISIS and we should sit back and watch. WE should not be doing more than what they are willing to fight for.
5
The Obama administration is the very definition of incompetence and naivete. They have convinced themselves that surrogate Arab paramilitary groups can replace American soldiers on the ground. What a joke. The weapons we supply these groups with will shortly be in the hands of ISIS and Al Qaeda, where they will be used against the American soldiers that will eventually have to be dispatched to clean up this mess. Meanwhile Obama will jet off to his retirement in Hawaii, where endless rounds of golf paid for by American taxpayers will be played.
5
Behold the Sunni SuperState!
1
Turks attacking the Kurds and now the US trained Syrian rebels killing each other. Why are we even involved in anything there? Why do we even care?
4
Sad to say, the Assad brothers are the good guys in this religious civil war.
3
It's a good thing a lot of these commenters weren't around or in charge of anything during WWII. We would have packed up and left almost as soon as we entered the war in North Africa and the Pacific. The Germans steamrolled through our troops at Kasserine Pass in Tunisia and major Japanese victories in the Pacific would have seen these people cowering in their boots.
Wars are not won or lost in one battle. But these days they seem to be in many people's minds.
Wars are not won or lost in one battle. But these days they seem to be in many people's minds.
3
The difference is that in WWll American soldiers and civilians had more faith in their commanders both military and political to put the best interests of the troops and their country first and more importantly the righteousness of their cause was instilled in most all Americans.
2
South Vietnam was lost in a few months after fifteen years of being propped up by the US. The Iranian police state of the Shah collapsed in less than a year after being propped up by the US. Iraq's armed forces largely collapsed in a few weeks without US combat forces on the ground to help them.
Blackmamba has it absolutely right. We have an apparently unerring ability to choose to waste and/or ruin tens of thousands of US lives, hundreds of thousands to millions of indigenous lives and trillions of dollars supporting indigenous cabals which do not earn the support of the indigenous people. When will we ever learn that our support of indigenous thugs is a losing strategy? No matter how much lipstick we smear on these pigs, the locals aren't buying them as worthy of support. The locals we slaughter from the air keeping these pigs in "control" (who is kidding whom?) simply recruit more local insurgents to fight against them. The locals can see that our alleged support of democracy in their country is a sham, no matter what our leaders wish to believe and try to convince us to believe.
If the successful rebels who lead our then populace in separating from perfidious Albion were alive now, I suspect that most of them would be thoroughly revolted by the policies which the political leadership of our country have attempted to implement abroad since 1898.
Blackmamba has it absolutely right. We have an apparently unerring ability to choose to waste and/or ruin tens of thousands of US lives, hundreds of thousands to millions of indigenous lives and trillions of dollars supporting indigenous cabals which do not earn the support of the indigenous people. When will we ever learn that our support of indigenous thugs is a losing strategy? No matter how much lipstick we smear on these pigs, the locals aren't buying them as worthy of support. The locals we slaughter from the air keeping these pigs in "control" (who is kidding whom?) simply recruit more local insurgents to fight against them. The locals can see that our alleged support of democracy in their country is a sham, no matter what our leaders wish to believe and try to convince us to believe.
If the successful rebels who lead our then populace in separating from perfidious Albion were alive now, I suspect that most of them would be thoroughly revolted by the policies which the political leadership of our country have attempted to implement abroad since 1898.
1
This sounds like the most dangerous game of Whack A Mole ever. Time to pack up our mallets and come home.
5
dare we guess? one is Sunni & the other is Shia? do these people even remember why they kill each other? do any of them? Arabs & Jews? Northern Ireland Catholics & Protestants? centuries of conflict and why?
5
“…officials were trying to understand why the Nusra Front had turned on the trainees”
These officials must be living on another planet to be so out of touch with reality.
These officials must be living on another planet to be so out of touch with reality.
5
Rivals of ISIS? Yer kiddin, right? Is there a brisk market these days in Jihadism?
1
Even in Mesopotamian times, no single government controlled all the Tigris and Euphrates until 1921. Constantiople has basically controlled the north and Persia the south. That is how the north became Sunni and the south Shite.
The time has come to recognize that Turkey is the great power in the west. It has 80 million people and is a member of NATO, the same as Germany and the same we had in 1900 when we established our sphere over Mexico and the Caribbean.
Turkey should establish a quasi-Ottoman Empire hegemony over the Sunni areas on its borders, especially Iraq and Kirkuk .
Instead, of treating a NATO ally of 80 million people as the great power, the US treats the 8 million non-Muslim Israel as the great power. The fundamentalists in Israel like Netanyahu want unrest in the Middle East to maintain US support in maintaining apartheid. That will end only when we threaten to deal with apartheid as we did in South Africa.
Netanyahu fears Iran so little that he agitated mightly, including through Tom Friedman on these pages, for the overthrow of Saddam--the main bulwark against Iran and the main controller of the Shiites in Iraq.
With Turkey a quasi-Ottoman Empire and Israel a Switzerland and economic power, things might settle down a bit.
The time has come to recognize that Turkey is the great power in the west. It has 80 million people and is a member of NATO, the same as Germany and the same we had in 1900 when we established our sphere over Mexico and the Caribbean.
Turkey should establish a quasi-Ottoman Empire hegemony over the Sunni areas on its borders, especially Iraq and Kirkuk .
Instead, of treating a NATO ally of 80 million people as the great power, the US treats the 8 million non-Muslim Israel as the great power. The fundamentalists in Israel like Netanyahu want unrest in the Middle East to maintain US support in maintaining apartheid. That will end only when we threaten to deal with apartheid as we did in South Africa.
Netanyahu fears Iran so little that he agitated mightly, including through Tom Friedman on these pages, for the overthrow of Saddam--the main bulwark against Iran and the main controller of the Shiites in Iraq.
With Turkey a quasi-Ottoman Empire and Israel a Switzerland and economic power, things might settle down a bit.
2
The goal of ISIS and Al Qaeda is power. They do not care who fights for them (Shiite, Sunni, other) as long as they accumulate the most territory.
Death and torture are used to terrify, in order to bring compliance from, or humiliation to, conquered villages.
The people of Syria want peace, not war. What else could be their goal? They have seen 230,000 die, 1,000,000 injured and 9,000,000 displaced.
They are trying to figure out who to ally with that will harm them the least -- ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Syrian government? No choice is appetizing.
Arriving now is the U.S., which has a record in the ME as a source of death and instability, The region is suspicious of U.S. efforts, and this recent rout undermines further their credibility.
If the U.S. is serious about peace in Syria, they will have to demonstrate their intentions in a different way--a more tangible, life supporting way. For example, start rebuilding villages, ensuring there are adequate troops to defend against all comers--that is, ISIS and Al Queda.
Provide healthcare and food to this war torn country, in well-defended centers. Militarily--defend only, never attack.
Show the Syrians that the U.S. cares about peace, not our own interests. Become their real friends, and they will become our real allies.
It will take time, money, military investment and courageous thinking, at a time when money is scarce in the U.S. But they love their families, as we do ours. Are we to stand by and do nothing?
Death and torture are used to terrify, in order to bring compliance from, or humiliation to, conquered villages.
The people of Syria want peace, not war. What else could be their goal? They have seen 230,000 die, 1,000,000 injured and 9,000,000 displaced.
They are trying to figure out who to ally with that will harm them the least -- ISIS, Al Qaeda, the Syrian government? No choice is appetizing.
Arriving now is the U.S., which has a record in the ME as a source of death and instability, The region is suspicious of U.S. efforts, and this recent rout undermines further their credibility.
If the U.S. is serious about peace in Syria, they will have to demonstrate their intentions in a different way--a more tangible, life supporting way. For example, start rebuilding villages, ensuring there are adequate troops to defend against all comers--that is, ISIS and Al Queda.
Provide healthcare and food to this war torn country, in well-defended centers. Militarily--defend only, never attack.
Show the Syrians that the U.S. cares about peace, not our own interests. Become their real friends, and they will become our real allies.
It will take time, money, military investment and courageous thinking, at a time when money is scarce in the U.S. But they love their families, as we do ours. Are we to stand by and do nothing?
10
Operation Eager Lion is a good place to start, if your worried about refugees.
Here's a suggestion. Let's provide health care, food and infrastructure rebuilding right here in the good old USA. Detroit could use some rebuilding!
There are plenty of Arab states who have billions. So many billions that one is busy building new island in the sea. Let them invest in their region!
There are plenty of Arab states who have billions. So many billions that one is busy building new island in the sea. Let them invest in their region!
Justice, you are right that some Arab countries are very wealthy. I imagine if they wanted to build in the countries of which you speak, they would have done so by now.
I also agree that the U.S. needs infrastructure, educational funding and a social safety net, which costs money.
And, I think, from the U.S., because of distance and lack of familiarity with Middle Eastern culture, it's easy to form an "us" versus "them" mindset.
My comments were based more in the belief that extremism and its consequences are brutal and deadly, the U.S. does not purport to support these ideals, and that we should step in as defenders and peacekeepers against ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Harem, et al, because they are murdering, by the thousands, and displacing, by the millions, innocent civilians.
Strategically, if we befriend the Middle East, and help them in life supporting ways, using the military only for defense, we could create new allies--and maybe peace. It would take time.
To ask Americans to sacrifice their needs, which are very real, is a big thing to ask. But the U.S. is not under attack by extremists.
These people need help. The majority are not extremists, just terrified.
I also agree that the U.S. needs infrastructure, educational funding and a social safety net, which costs money.
And, I think, from the U.S., because of distance and lack of familiarity with Middle Eastern culture, it's easy to form an "us" versus "them" mindset.
My comments were based more in the belief that extremism and its consequences are brutal and deadly, the U.S. does not purport to support these ideals, and that we should step in as defenders and peacekeepers against ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Harem, et al, because they are murdering, by the thousands, and displacing, by the millions, innocent civilians.
Strategically, if we befriend the Middle East, and help them in life supporting ways, using the military only for defense, we could create new allies--and maybe peace. It would take time.
To ask Americans to sacrifice their needs, which are very real, is a big thing to ask. But the U.S. is not under attack by extremists.
These people need help. The majority are not extremists, just terrified.
Once more, once more, once more! Can it be possible that once more we did not have the intelligence? We have never had the intelligence or we would never have gotten involved in the Middle East. Our glory days on winning the 2nd big War has led us into one ego/political war after another, for 55years; And, if we do not have a war to fight we create one!
Of course, there will come the time when we will stop creating or finding wars to fight, but that may only come if we are bankrupt, beaten badly with immeasurable suffering and loss of life, or we might become intelligent enough to just STOP! Our children and grandchildren's lives are begging us to just stop!
Of course, there will come the time when we will stop creating or finding wars to fight, but that may only come if we are bankrupt, beaten badly with immeasurable suffering and loss of life, or we might become intelligent enough to just STOP! Our children and grandchildren's lives are begging us to just stop!
6
And we are shamefully abandoning the Kurds for this? Disgusting!
5
This article, while revealing regarding the effectively tiny and mostly faltering American effort to find a foothold inside the Syrian conflict as a counter to ISIS, deals with what is only an infinitesimal part of the larger morass that engulfs Syria and Iraq and threatens virtually every contiguous Arab nation and Turkey.
There is no evidence that tenuous American agency and or tepid involvement has done anything to quell the underlying, ingrained sectarian enmity or endemic social and political dysfunction that fuels the carnage that clearly threatens to engulf the entire region.
Countering ISIS as a primary objective pales by comparison when considering the implications and consequences of conflict and collapse across the entire Middle East.
Given this as a very real possibility would, or could the American, and for that matter European, response be so narrowly calculated and tentative?
There is no evidence that tenuous American agency and or tepid involvement has done anything to quell the underlying, ingrained sectarian enmity or endemic social and political dysfunction that fuels the carnage that clearly threatens to engulf the entire region.
Countering ISIS as a primary objective pales by comparison when considering the implications and consequences of conflict and collapse across the entire Middle East.
Given this as a very real possibility would, or could the American, and for that matter European, response be so narrowly calculated and tentative?
1
"Current and former senior administration officials acknowledged that the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise."
Surprised? How many of our best senior military officials have resigned or been dismissed by Mr. Obama? How many have tried without success to guide Mr. Obama on how to handle a military threat while he blithely ignores their experience and expertise? How does anyone expect a decimated and demoralized military to act with confidence when it is so thinly stretched that even if the United States wanted to fully deploy and destroy ISIS and the Nusra Front it would be hard pressed.
The problem is not failure of American intelligence. It is a great failure of Presidential leadership and commitment. Piece meal and half-hearted efforts to resist radical Islamic military and terrorist actions cannot work.
Mr. Obama is fearful, tentative, hesitant and generally unwilling to commit the forces necessary to defeat ISIS or other military threats. The failure of American commitment by Mr. Obama has led to greater confidence by the enemy who seeks to exploit every military and political weakness they can find. Assad is continuing his development and deployment of chemical weapons. Mr. Putin continues his assault in Ukraine. China continues to build and fortify islands in the South China Sea. The Taliban continues its assaults in Iraq. The much touted Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement is in shambles. Iran builds nukes. Surprise!
Surprised? How many of our best senior military officials have resigned or been dismissed by Mr. Obama? How many have tried without success to guide Mr. Obama on how to handle a military threat while he blithely ignores their experience and expertise? How does anyone expect a decimated and demoralized military to act with confidence when it is so thinly stretched that even if the United States wanted to fully deploy and destroy ISIS and the Nusra Front it would be hard pressed.
The problem is not failure of American intelligence. It is a great failure of Presidential leadership and commitment. Piece meal and half-hearted efforts to resist radical Islamic military and terrorist actions cannot work.
Mr. Obama is fearful, tentative, hesitant and generally unwilling to commit the forces necessary to defeat ISIS or other military threats. The failure of American commitment by Mr. Obama has led to greater confidence by the enemy who seeks to exploit every military and political weakness they can find. Assad is continuing his development and deployment of chemical weapons. Mr. Putin continues his assault in Ukraine. China continues to build and fortify islands in the South China Sea. The Taliban continues its assaults in Iraq. The much touted Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement is in shambles. Iran builds nukes. Surprise!
3
You forgot to mention that Israel continues to dispossess Arab Palestinians in the occupied territories under our sponsorship. Not that this began in 2009. Not that any of the usually unsuccessful policies adopted by the US in the great ME tar baby were rooted in 2009. Not that anyone not in the Cheney administration should be blamed for the series of disasters waiting to happen created by the Cheney administration. Not that Petraeus was not treated with great lenience for substantially the same offense of giving classified information to a third party for which the administration would like to imprison Snowden. Not that Iran has built any nukes.
1
Obama has weakened the US military and intelligence areas to such a degree that the only possible description for them is "incompetence." The new normal.
2
As opposed to the old normal of incompetence laced with dishonesty and hypocrisy of the Cheney administration?
1
When Dempsey testified in Congress last week, it was clear that the Pentagon just wants to maintain their own job security. Warmongers. We have been failing miserably in the ME for over a decade, and we should not even allow special forces to operate.
4
"A significant intelligence failure!" that is almost funny given the context our support of the anti Iran, anti Syria, and sort of for the elected government of Iraq, Keystone Cops coalition. We had to sort of back al Qaeda in Yemen because our allies Saudi Arabia has decided to bomb Yemeni Shia. We are mostly against al Qaeda in Syria, but we can only find a hundred or so anti Assad rebels who do not share the political proclivities of both the terrorist group al Qaeda, and the Iraqi Sunni led conventional army of ISIS. All we know is that the Syrian rebels want Assad dead, and quite possibly all of the Shia Muslims in the world dead as well.
When one considers the intelligence failures, not to mention the complete inability of the Bush Administration to read the regional political alignments before they embarked upon regime change in Iraq, which turned the middle east into a Hobbesian Nightmare of every man against every other man, I have to wonder what a total failure of intelligence might look like. For example, what possible intelligence would have us sort of wanting to contain Iran, but also kind of wanting to redirect ISIS to more limited goals far short of "The Caliphate," which they, and the Wahabi Saudi Kingdom seem to have settled upon for the region. We hate it that we may need Iran!
I think that outside of George HW Bush and Brent Scowcroft, nobody understand or even worse, can imagine a solution to the current conundrum in which we have placed the ourselves.
When one considers the intelligence failures, not to mention the complete inability of the Bush Administration to read the regional political alignments before they embarked upon regime change in Iraq, which turned the middle east into a Hobbesian Nightmare of every man against every other man, I have to wonder what a total failure of intelligence might look like. For example, what possible intelligence would have us sort of wanting to contain Iran, but also kind of wanting to redirect ISIS to more limited goals far short of "The Caliphate," which they, and the Wahabi Saudi Kingdom seem to have settled upon for the region. We hate it that we may need Iran!
I think that outside of George HW Bush and Brent Scowcroft, nobody understand or even worse, can imagine a solution to the current conundrum in which we have placed the ourselves.
1
"the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure."
When has our so-called intelligence ever succeeded? These agencies get away with murder and torture, waste countless billions of taxpayer dollars, and are the equivalent of clowns at a state funeral.
When has our so-called intelligence ever succeeded? These agencies get away with murder and torture, waste countless billions of taxpayer dollars, and are the equivalent of clowns at a state funeral.
2
Obama has for years been supporting the training of mercenary terrorists to fight in Syria, that is in-part how ISIAS grew overnight. It was all those fighters we and our allies put in Syria to fight a war. Now with congressional approval Obama is training what he calls insurgents within Syria to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad!
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IS MORALLY OFFENSIV? DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY OBAMA IS HELL BENT ON DESTROYING ASSAD? WHAT ISN'T OUR GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD KNOW?
AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT THINKS THIS VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL LAW AND IS MORALLY OFFENSIV? DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY OBAMA IS HELL BENT ON DESTROYING ASSAD? WHAT ISN'T OUR GOVERNMENT AND MEDIA NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULD KNOW?
2
As a matter of fact this "failure of intelligence" is exactly what the Obama administration predicted would happen. They said from the very start that the reason they were not "arming the rebels" (the simplistic, bizarre strategy demanded by Republicans) was that it was virtually impossible to identify with any sort of certainty which groups could be trusted to move generally toward American goals without of course eventually turning the weapons over to Islmaic terrorists.
Not only did this happen in this case, it will continue to happen. We have seen the same sort of side switching in Afghanistan and with so much money floating around from various regional state sponsors, these warlords are happy to sell their services to the highest bidder.
The region is beyond chaotic. Either it will burn out after decades of war and instability or the major nations in the region will step up, engage in negotiations and impose some order.
Rest assured that even though we broke the Middle East (Colin Powell) we will not be able to repair it.
Not only did this happen in this case, it will continue to happen. We have seen the same sort of side switching in Afghanistan and with so much money floating around from various regional state sponsors, these warlords are happy to sell their services to the highest bidder.
The region is beyond chaotic. Either it will burn out after decades of war and instability or the major nations in the region will step up, engage in negotiations and impose some order.
Rest assured that even though we broke the Middle East (Colin Powell) we will not be able to repair it.
5
Yep, blame it on anyone but Obama. It was Obama and his Middle East allies that hired and trained mercenary terrorists that ended up joining ISIS. Obama got congress to approve the training in Syria what he now calls insurgents to fight Assad, which is a direct violation of international law. Do you know why? He supports our allies to build a pipeline through Syria to the EU. They in return will use US Petro dollars as their reserve currency.
It is time both parties and those on their bandwagons wake up and realize that we are faced with using sanctions, riots, revolution, bombing. invasions and even nuclear war to protect our currency that both parties approved printing without any financial backing other than it's use to by oil and gas.
Neither Obama or Bush cares what happens to Americans as long as they continue to pay the cost with their money and life.
It is time both parties and those on their bandwagons wake up and realize that we are faced with using sanctions, riots, revolution, bombing. invasions and even nuclear war to protect our currency that both parties approved printing without any financial backing other than it's use to by oil and gas.
Neither Obama or Bush cares what happens to Americans as long as they continue to pay the cost with their money and life.
1
A significant intelligence failure seems to be the pattern. At home or abroad our omnipresent intrusive government spying agencies can't seem to get the job done even when they have all the tools and break all the rules. It makes one curious about what is allowed to happen and why. We are all being played as fools and sadly seem up to the task. The entirety of this government is run like corporate America on narcissism, nepotism and selective ignorance resulting in the inevitable incompetence that is destroying this country by spreading hate, fear and divisiveness all the while preying on ignorance. Anything but the truth.
2
Sadly, it has been going on to one extent or another at least since 1898, and ever more obviously since 1945.
1
This is precisely why the president was hesitant to arms the so-called "good" insurgents in the first place. But GOP genuises like McCain and Graham were clamoring for it, so the administration did it. It's a very complicated, fluid situation, not one that is solved by merely shipping arms to Syria and showing "moderates" how to shoot them.
2
We will not bring peace to the Middle East by training young men to use our weapons.
We will not bring peace to the Middle East by aerial bombardment.
The best contribution the US can make to peace in the Middle East is the withdrawal of our military. Prosecution of our war criminals would help too.
We will not bring peace to the Middle East by aerial bombardment.
The best contribution the US can make to peace in the Middle East is the withdrawal of our military. Prosecution of our war criminals would help too.
5
Every Terrorist Group in the Middle East is attacking almost every other group.
WHAT ARE WE DOING THERE ?
WHAT ARE WE DOING THERE ?
1
The article states "In Washington, several current and former senior administration officials acknowledged that the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure."
It has long been obvious that we do not understand the tribal nature of the societies involved, and, as a consequence, the leadership, allegiances, loyalties, and aspirations of the various components are largely opaque to us.
We also do not understand the Islamic tradition that "My enemy's enemy is my friend," which greatly complicates assessments of allegiances and loyalties and tends to make them of a fleeting nature and in constant flux. That means that what might be true today will not always be true tomorrow.
Then there is the issue that allegiances and loyalties are frequently available to the highest bidder, which complicates matters even further. We learned that lesson the hard way. You do not want your momentary allies behind you, particularly, when they decide, for whatever reason, to back those that you are fighting.
We should do what we can to protect antiquities and innocent civilian populations, but we must stay out of the fray of sorting out what the proper borders of the Middle East should be, because we do not understand the situation. A lot of blood is still going to be shed in that process, and it should not be ours.
It has long been obvious that we do not understand the tribal nature of the societies involved, and, as a consequence, the leadership, allegiances, loyalties, and aspirations of the various components are largely opaque to us.
We also do not understand the Islamic tradition that "My enemy's enemy is my friend," which greatly complicates assessments of allegiances and loyalties and tends to make them of a fleeting nature and in constant flux. That means that what might be true today will not always be true tomorrow.
Then there is the issue that allegiances and loyalties are frequently available to the highest bidder, which complicates matters even further. We learned that lesson the hard way. You do not want your momentary allies behind you, particularly, when they decide, for whatever reason, to back those that you are fighting.
We should do what we can to protect antiquities and innocent civilian populations, but we must stay out of the fray of sorting out what the proper borders of the Middle East should be, because we do not understand the situation. A lot of blood is still going to be shed in that process, and it should not be ours.
2
My advice to islamic group in syria and iraq. They should aliens themselves with other group within iraq like group 30. And stop rebel attack make peace return to iraq
Two terrorist organizations fighting each other. This is the type of situation that only benefits Assad. The moderate opposition that started the revolt is still on the sidelines. Al-Nursa has attacked and kidnapped civilians but does not have the notoriety of ISIS Their one similarity is their hatred of Shiites and other non Sunni Islamic sects.
There were moderates, and they did protest Assad. They included students and business people in Damascus, basically secular. Assad had some shot at the demonstartions. That was the start of violence.
"The revolt" never included any "moderates." The violence in revolt, violence in reaction to Assad, started with extremists. It is an extremist act.
The moderates who had protested were even more horrified by the people who did violent revolt. The moderates did not set bombs, and they did not do jihad. That was all extremists, from the beginning.
Those extremists were from the beginning supported from outside, primarily Saudis. There were from the beginning Wahhabi extremists just like those who attacked us on 9/11. That is why al Nusra is al Qaeda.
"The revolt" never included any "moderates." The violence in revolt, violence in reaction to Assad, started with extremists. It is an extremist act.
The moderates who had protested were even more horrified by the people who did violent revolt. The moderates did not set bombs, and they did not do jihad. That was all extremists, from the beginning.
Those extremists were from the beginning supported from outside, primarily Saudis. There were from the beginning Wahhabi extremists just like those who attacked us on 9/11. That is why al Nusra is al Qaeda.
It's obvious that the battlefield in Syria is overcrowded with so many fighter groups, that have different ideologies and agendas. That "other groups in the area failed to come to Division 30's aid", and stayed on the sidelines, could be that they were envious because Division 30 is backed by the US. It also reveals their devious scheme - to let other groups to eliminate those, who aren't their allies.
The al Qaeda affiliate, the Nusra Front is competing with ISIS to gain hegemony, now that Assad's forces have withdrawn from various parts of the country to focus on their Alawite areas, and it sees no doubt Division 30 as its enemies, because it is not fighting Assad, but ISIS, and them eventually.
Indeed, one just wonders how the civil war ends? Al Nusra and others might not be able to topple Assad, if he sticks to his stronghold. As long as the rest of Syria remains lawless and chaotic, with dozens of groups fighting each other, there is no way to get rid of ISIS.
The al Qaeda affiliate, the Nusra Front is competing with ISIS to gain hegemony, now that Assad's forces have withdrawn from various parts of the country to focus on their Alawite areas, and it sees no doubt Division 30 as its enemies, because it is not fighting Assad, but ISIS, and them eventually.
Indeed, one just wonders how the civil war ends? Al Nusra and others might not be able to topple Assad, if he sticks to his stronghold. As long as the rest of Syria remains lawless and chaotic, with dozens of groups fighting each other, there is no way to get rid of ISIS.
3
Check out "operation eager lion". All the predictions about ISIS start there. It was a combined operation for handling refugees from the Iraq War, and from possible future refugees from Syria. Anticipating this current melee. Its all there. Check it out. Started in mid 2000's up until last year. Check out which countries are in the alliance! Operation eager Lion! (Yeah, they left some jets behind.)
With ever new enemy cropping up each day having different identities in the Middle East, and reminding the US of its unwelcome presence in the region, why the US is insisting on fighting this hydra headed monster of Islamist militancy it could hardly lay claim to understand well, notwithstanding the fact that the monster was its own creation? Don't the people back home deserve better attention and development than what the US is paying to a region growing hostile and ungrateful to it with each passing day?
2
You r right . We have no friends just people that want our money.whoever wins will if they're not anti USA they will be. It's best to let them just go at each other as long as possible and leave us alone.
1
The Obama policy has been to do as little as possible in Syria because of the stark choices. We can occupy Syria for the indefinite future with several hundred thousand American troops all the while enduring heavy casualties and draining our budget or we can let the people in the Middle East fight their own wars and respond to attacks on the US with proportional force. The idea of arming 'Syrian Rebels that we can trust' is mostly an Congressional idea pushed by Republicans like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. Obama's mistake was allowing himself to be forced into going along with the cockamamie idea.
There will be those fools that think that the Obama administration simply executed the plan badly but they are wrong. Ronald Reagan's arming of Osama bin Laden should serve as an example. The West in general and the US in particular is very unpopular in that part of the country. Trying to find enough 'friends' to make an army is a bad idea.
There will be those fools that think that the Obama administration simply executed the plan badly but they are wrong. Ronald Reagan's arming of Osama bin Laden should serve as an example. The West in general and the US in particular is very unpopular in that part of the country. Trying to find enough 'friends' to make an army is a bad idea.
8
Its our fault...yes, our fault. The smart folks who write smart comments in to the New York Times and other periodicals then do nothing else. Why are we not standing up to the Right who don't care about our Sons and Daughters spilling blood in the region? Why are we not defending President Obama's sound foreign policy to negotiate rather than go to war (although even he buckles in to the Right's nonsense)?. Why are we not questioning the massive war debt that will be owed long after political regimes are over. Why are we not protesting when our American brothers and sisters come home physically and mentally maimed? The many smart people who write in comments are allowing the industrial war machine to flourish without question. We deserve what we get because we do nothing to stop it.
10
Let the region sort out itself, as its aimlessly and extremely violence and no one, even the western intelligence agencies, exactly know who is who in shall I say these conflict(s) with a plural S. The wars in ME region is multi-dimensional: sectarian, religious, ethnic and civilian vs official. No one, I bet even those who live and fight in those struggles have a clear vision how things will turn even in a very near future. So, to expect a foreign intelligence to that region to form practical ideas about it is surreal. I think the only ethnic group in that region who has the vision and understanding of how to put an end to struggles in their own territories are the Kurds. With the means they have and with the help of USA airpower they managed to create a relatively safe zone for themselves and for some other minority ethnic groups and they don't budge defending their territory.
2
This latest debacle reflects two problems with our current approach to Syria: bad intelligence and a schizophrenia about Assad/ISIS. From failing to predict the rise of ISIS to more basically sorting out who is fighting who and why on the ground, our intel has missed the mark in Syria time and again. These mistakes are no surprise considering who we have on our intel bench. We rely on either military intel officers often recruited and promoted based on their gung-ho attributes instead of their intelligence, or private contractors more interested in profiting from their contracts than actually employing people who know anything about the cultures or countries they analyze. As for Assad, at one moment the White House is obsessed with wanting him deposed by all means necessary; at the next, the White House wants to help him destroy ISIS. And meanwhile in all this muddle somehow it is thought that applying the US brand to our fledgling little proxy army will somehow endear it to hardened jihadist fighters who view Assad and the Americans are equally evils. It may be time to entirely pull the plug on our Syria adventures until we figure out what it is we want to do there, how to do it, and before we get more of our proxy soldiers killed or captured.
1
Anyone who follows the situation in Syria knows that the insurgents there never really were friends of the US. They just wanted to use the US to grab power - just like their patrons in Istanbul and Riad.
Do we really believe that Al Nusra and the other Islamists rebel groups are not aware of how much the US culture differs from theirs. And do we really believe that they don't suspect that the US will grab the opportunity as soon as they see one to decimate them?
Do we really believe that Al Nusra and the other Islamists rebel groups are not aware of how much the US culture differs from theirs. And do we really believe that they don't suspect that the US will grab the opportunity as soon as they see one to decimate them?
6
The group’s statement said Sunnis would not hand the sacrifices of four years of war “on a plate of gold” to the United States “for it to establish its feet in the region over the graves of hundreds of thousands of the people of Syria.”
I can kinda' see where they're coming from though they should have found a more constructive way to get the point across. The US could have found a more constructive way to work with them rather than dictating policy from afar.
I can kinda' see where they're coming from though they should have found a more constructive way to get the point across. The US could have found a more constructive way to work with them rather than dictating policy from afar.
If the US is not ready to drop a huge nuclear bomb to create an empty crate and start from zero, it is probably best to leave Syria.
2
It is truly the theatre of the absurd. The Nusra Front funded by Saudi Arabia and assisted by Turkey and Israel attacks and captures and will probably kill the forces trained by Pentagon (the good terrorists) to attack the Syrian government. The United States forms a coalition with Saudi Arabia and Turkey to fight against the Nusra Front and ISIS. In the name of fighting ISIS, Turkey attacks the Kurds who have proved to be the only effective force in fighting the ISIS. Meanwhile, the spokesman of the American military writes “we are confident that this attack will not deter Syrians from joining the program to fight for Syria,” and added that the program “is making progress.” It is a funny old world. Read George Orwell again.
6
Isn't it interesting, those that live closer, that would be the countries of Europe , won't have a thing to do with the Mideast. Maybe they know something the United States just can't conceive. Ya' think?
But yet the Dick Cheneys and the John McCains still cry for more. But more of what? They're not sending their kids over, or grandkids, or great grandkids. They just keep getting older and using every body else's kids for a lost, lost cause.
Maybe it's time the United States followed suit of Europe. For some reason they aren't involved and they're a lot closer to "over there" than we are.
But yet the Dick Cheneys and the John McCains still cry for more. But more of what? They're not sending their kids over, or grandkids, or great grandkids. They just keep getting older and using every body else's kids for a lost, lost cause.
Maybe it's time the United States followed suit of Europe. For some reason they aren't involved and they're a lot closer to "over there" than we are.
7
Actually, many countries are involved in combating ISIS, including France, the U.K., the Netherlands, Italy, Jordon, Morocco, Turkey, Denmark, Canada, Australia, Belgium, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, Norway, Portugal and Spain. There are more--this list is not inclusive. Each country has experienced casualties in the single or two digit category, as opposed to the 4-digit losses of Iraqi and Syrian Kurds. The European Union and Eastern European countries have provided humanitarian aid, as well. So, Mima, I am happy to see that the U.S. is showing their commitment to fight extremists and terrorists, as we are "over here".
For how long the world citizenry would be duped on the pretext of Daesh 'takeover'. ISIS/ISIL has been created by the 'significant players', trained (in the Jordan valley) and armed to the teeth by the same stakeholders. Ofcourse such monster organizations have the tendency to go rogue and Daesh has literally played havoc in Sunni dominated areas. Moderate Sunnis have faced the brunt of Daesh after being annihilated/butchered by Assad in Syria and marginalized/incapacitated by Malaki's (Iranian) death squads in Iraq. US/'west'-Iran nuclear deal followed by UN approval has further exasperated the situation. 'middle east' is heading towards an explosive deadend and millions of folks stare death and destruction in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, and Palestine. US/'west' has put their weight besides Rouhani and he couldn't be trusted. Iranian state, clerics/leaders, Aytoallhs have no credibility whatsoever; 'west'/US could easily be duped by them. Nevertheless; Netanyahu and his cabal are as untrustworthy as Iranian leaders. Iran would play havoc in the entire 'middle east' once the sanctions are lifted. Iranian regime in collaboration with Malaki, Assad, and Hassan Nasrullah has committed horrendous atrocities against defenseless civilians in the 'middle east' and quite tragically 'west' has rewarded this extremely deviant behavior!!!! Where are the 'anti war' FOLKS
1
'anti war' folks disappeared as soon as Obama was elected (or at least coverage of them did). Is Cindy Sheehan alive? Is Code Pink still active? How about closing broadcasts with lists of dead? Maybe they'll return if GOP gets back in the White House.
Al Nusra was the group McCain called "his friends in the Syrian Free Army" and had a photo made with them. Maybe John could ring them up and ask them to back off since he was wanting to give them lots of arms. How many more times do we have to pretend to train another army to take the fight to the enemies when we must know beyond a doubt that it does not work? I believe we just use this excuse when Military Industrial Complex wants to bomb another country to smithereens. We demanded Obama not bomb Syria but he created a way he could do that anyway and now it is in ruins after two years of bombings with millions of women and children as refugees again, imagine that. Just sick that we are so addicted to our Military Industrial Complex that we just must be bombing someone somewhere and use another country's "boots on the ground", a sick euphemism to pretend we are trying to win when we just like to bomb..
2
The operative term here is the use of 'intelligence failure'. Is there any rationality [intelligence] in the spaghetti bowl known as the Middle East upon which one can, with any certainty, base a cogent decision? I think not. They have been at each other for centuries. One has to wonder if the various factions - new and old - have any end game in their playbook.
Or - The enemy of my enemy is my friend's enemy's enemy's friend - or something like that.
Or - The enemy of my enemy is my friend's enemy's enemy's friend - or something like that.
1
Let the different fractions work things out their way but the rest of us should be waiting in the wings to talk diplomacy...... and please we should not be supplying weaponry of any sort to this area as warring will only exasperate the situation....... we should not favored one fraction over another. We should do what we can for the refugees displaced and maybe this act of human kindness will take hold through out this area but for sure feeding the war machine is not the solution.
1
I agree, Dennis. Assuming the best case (that we could find a way to convince the neo-cons and supporters of Likud at any cost in Congress to see the error of their way,) how to convince the Saudis to stop funding and arming surrogates to counter Iran and Iranians to stop funding and arming surrogates to counter Saud?
1
What is a failure in intelligence is not that radical Islamists attacked US Syrian proxies but the acceptance on the part of America to follow its allies in accepting the al Qaeda banner in the goal of killing Asad. The axis of Ankara-Doha-Riyadh has rescued the jihadists from containment and released them upon Syria. The plan to destroy the secular dictatorship has brought ruination upon the Syrians, reinstilled sectarian, ethnic and regional division, reinvigorated al Qaeda, increased instability in the entire region, and created a new arena where future jihadists will train and return with fighting skills to expand the conflict. With the imminent fall of the Asad government, it will be interesting to see how many of the ex-pats who so strongly opposed Bashar al-Asad will return to the liberated country that the “freedom fighters” of al Qaeda will set up. Some historian will one day raise the question whether all the death, destruction, human misery, and regional chaos was worth the deposing of an authoritarian government of a fourth rate power.
1
As the whole aim, is for regime change by US it is not surprising, this incident occurred. So called has to realise that battle between sects, Sunnis and Shias. Most extremists, are not concerned to fight ISIS. These thugs want to exterminate Shias.
There has to be political solution and no amount of tax payer's money spent on so called training FSA or moderates. FSA is a myth, mostly composed of Sunnis and indoctrinated, Wahbbis .
There has to be political solution and no amount of tax payer's money spent on so called training FSA or moderates. FSA is a myth, mostly composed of Sunnis and indoctrinated, Wahbbis .
Why we shouldn't be there should be the headline.
I truly believe they have to settle their own differences any help the US or Israel involvement will harm any chance for the people of the middle east and Asia. I also believe that our attempting to give trust a chance with Iran will go far further towards that goal to relieve the pressure of their hatred of us the USA!
I truly believe they have to settle their own differences any help the US or Israel involvement will harm any chance for the people of the middle east and Asia. I also believe that our attempting to give trust a chance with Iran will go far further towards that goal to relieve the pressure of their hatred of us the USA!
1
On the domestic front, there is a war in Congress over the Iran nuclear arms deal. If the US cannot, amongst its' politicians agree on how Iran can play a role in this unfortunate fiasco, how do they expect to send a clear message to the Middle East what is expected of the supposed ally groups to help overcome ISIS?
18
"This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” -- might be inscribed on America's tombstone. It's not as simple or as stupid as "government doesn't work," because we see the failures of big corporations all around, in their inability to keep data safe, in their abandonment of American communities in favor of Chinese and other communities.
What else fooled our trillion dollar intelligence machine? The fall of the USSR, the rise of Al Q, 9/11, the failure of our Iraqi puppets, the failure of our Afghan puppets. And hacking: all major banks, the pentagon, Staples, the IRS. Infrastructure failing; Congressional constipation, gun violence blasting the heart out of communities.
It's time for Americans to take a deep breath, step back, and say: "We're all messing up, and unless we get our collective act together, we're history." To edit T.S. Elliot:
“This is the way [our] world ends
Not with a bang but a [chorus of] whimper[s]."
What else fooled our trillion dollar intelligence machine? The fall of the USSR, the rise of Al Q, 9/11, the failure of our Iraqi puppets, the failure of our Afghan puppets. And hacking: all major banks, the pentagon, Staples, the IRS. Infrastructure failing; Congressional constipation, gun violence blasting the heart out of communities.
It's time for Americans to take a deep breath, step back, and say: "We're all messing up, and unless we get our collective act together, we're history." To edit T.S. Elliot:
“This is the way [our] world ends
Not with a bang but a [chorus of] whimper[s]."
4
The Powell doctrine for military intervention called for clear cut political objectives; the use of overwhelming force and an exit strategy. The Persian gulf war in 1990 was successful because there was a demarcation line of getting Iraq out of Kuwait and the government and populace clearly wanted our support. Additionally the sage bush 41 clearly did not exceed his mandate and go into Iraq in spite of the misguided criticism that he received. That is not the case in any of our current conflict areas where various factions vying for power and shifting alliances negate the opportunity for clear cut political objectives. Ill give Obama credit for not using ground troops; however even air support is negated by dubious motivations and lack of commitment. This is similar to our misguided vietnamization ventures. These factions need to battle out for themselves while we pledge support to protect the borders of sovereign governments that want our involvement.
20
"the sage bush 41 clearly did not exceed his mandate and go into Iraq in spite of the misguided criticism that he received." This is precisely why Shrub was elected, to avenge the error of his father's way. The hawks always thought the US had made a mistake in not invading Iraq in 1990, taking out Hussein and letting the Shia overthrow the Baathist. Scooter and Shooter were dead-set on seeing to it that Shrub finish the work they had begun under Daddy, but they stopped in their tracks and were put on a tight leash and restrained. They never got over their hurt feelings, thus they took the opportunity of 9/11 to justify their follies.
There are many who would continue their efforts, given a chance. How many people, Americans and Middle-Easterners, must die before we realize we don't have enough firepower to make them love us?
There are many who would continue their efforts, given a chance. How many people, Americans and Middle-Easterners, must die before we realize we don't have enough firepower to make them love us?
What does "air support" refer to if not bombing? It's not literally "boots on the ground" but it kills people indiscriminately all the same.
The Middle East conflict is too complicated for outsiders like the U.S. because they do not have a direct stake in its outcome. For example, the American media talks about “the Kurds” as if they are a single entity. In reality, Kurds in Syria, Iraq, and Turkey are lead by competing ideological factions that are not bridged by a common Kurdish identity. Iraqi Kurdistan supports Turkish strikes against the PKK, a Kurdish separatist group in Turkey which is based in the Qandil mountains of Northern Iraq. Why would the Iraqi Kurdish government support Turkish attacks on their own brethren? Because the PKK are quasi-communists, and therefor ideological rivals to other Kurdish groups.
Outsiders have the privilege to generalize different groups in the Middle East as one of the same. For America, telling apart the different shades is not a matter of survival in the Middle East because they can leave the region anytime.
Outsiders have the privilege to generalize different groups in the Middle East as one of the same. For America, telling apart the different shades is not a matter of survival in the Middle East because they can leave the region anytime.
This can only end in a holocaust. W and Cheney get a lifetime achievement award. Lets invade the Levant and put our flag (Insert flag shaming from David Brooks here), on top of the temple mount and ensure perpetual war. Ethnicity rules in the Levant. The sects be damned.
We can't escape this now. We can't leave Iraq. Ever. The Kurds, Syrians, Turks and Arabs don't work or play well with others.
We can't escape this now. We can't leave Iraq. Ever. The Kurds, Syrians, Turks and Arabs don't work or play well with others.
The Administration’s policy on Syria is an embarrassment for 5 reasons.
1. In the war’s early phase, they were advised to arm the moderate rebels but did not because some argued arming moderate rebels was adding fuel to the fire—as if others were not already fueling the fire.
2. Radical donors in the Middle East funded their favorite fighting franchise, strengthening the radicals and marginalizing the moderate. Arms would go to Syria, the only questions are: to whom and with what implications?
3. The US then used the growing extremists’ presence, a partial result of its policy of inactivity, to justify continued inactivity because weapons will fall into extremist hand.
Fourth, we looked on at the Syrian Government mass atrocities, done through conventional and chemical weapons, with indifference, until the Islamic State made inroads. We then offered assistance to rebel to fight the Islamic State not the government—thereby putting the country down the path of a three-way civil war, a war within a war.
Fifth, we are now surprised that our 60 men is Syria are seen as American lackeys and targets of liquidation. The missed opportunity is only exceeded by policy-makers's arrogance
1. In the war’s early phase, they were advised to arm the moderate rebels but did not because some argued arming moderate rebels was adding fuel to the fire—as if others were not already fueling the fire.
2. Radical donors in the Middle East funded their favorite fighting franchise, strengthening the radicals and marginalizing the moderate. Arms would go to Syria, the only questions are: to whom and with what implications?
3. The US then used the growing extremists’ presence, a partial result of its policy of inactivity, to justify continued inactivity because weapons will fall into extremist hand.
Fourth, we looked on at the Syrian Government mass atrocities, done through conventional and chemical weapons, with indifference, until the Islamic State made inroads. We then offered assistance to rebel to fight the Islamic State not the government—thereby putting the country down the path of a three-way civil war, a war within a war.
Fifth, we are now surprised that our 60 men is Syria are seen as American lackeys and targets of liquidation. The missed opportunity is only exceeded by policy-makers's arrogance
2
The US has made a mess of the Middle East, thanks to their " Enemy's enemy is a friend" policy. In the Muslim world there are two main warring groups- Shias and Sunnis. There are many sub groups owing allegiance to either of these two. Opportunism and geo-political considerations has found these groups switching allegiance or even situation based alliance with both. Further, the level of radicalization of these sub groups changes with the changing alliances. US has failed to understand these complications. They resorted to playing one group against another and landed in a mess. This conflict between sects with different ideologies cannot be solved by a neutral outsider. The conflict should be left to the sects to come to a settlement. But there is every possibility of such a sectarian conflict not reaching a conclusion for decades affecting the whole world. As such it is better for the US and West to go with the lesser evil of Shia sect and defeat the big evil within a reasonable time. Once this is done the lesser evil can be reformed by diplomacy and economic actions. This is the quickest and sure way of ridding this earth of Daesh, alquaida and their affiliates. Otherwise the US is likely to create another Libya or Iraq in Afghanistan.
10
In the ME, the enemy of my enemy is...my enemy.
The Arabs and their sectarian ways have made a mess of the Middle East! This is their mess. Unfortunately, our involvement hasn't made it better. The only time peace, a tense peace perhaps, prevails is when one or more strong men are in charge. We need to get out of this morass and tell our defense contractors to start making washing machines!
meanwhile, america is supporting turkey, which:
-is bombing the bases of the PKK, the only true secular force in the region, who has fought and beaten IS in battle
-is supporting the creation of a turkish-controlled buffer zone which co-incidentally is along the same strip of borderland controlled by the Kurds...
-up to now has offered material aid to the IS and quite possibly still does.
america is (as usual) running blind, with policy is formed by think-tank idiots. things will be much worse by winter...
-is bombing the bases of the PKK, the only true secular force in the region, who has fought and beaten IS in battle
-is supporting the creation of a turkish-controlled buffer zone which co-incidentally is along the same strip of borderland controlled by the Kurds...
-up to now has offered material aid to the IS and quite possibly still does.
america is (as usual) running blind, with policy is formed by think-tank idiots. things will be much worse by winter...
1
"The Nusra Front did much the same last year when it smashed the main groups that had been trained and equipped in a different American effort..."
"'This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official..."
I'm not and never have been associated within the ranks of military intelligence but the two statements above, to me, just don't coincide in an intelligent retrospective. If the Nusra Front had indeed attacked American trained forces in Syria before then why would a Military analyst expect them not to do so again?
The "Rebellion" in Syria has entered a new phase with the many and variously supported groups now fighting each other for control when the Government finally cedes defeat. Why don't the USA Government trainers realize this and the brilliant war planners expect that they will be targeted merely because the are supported by the USA, a SEEMINGLY anti-Muslim faction?
"'This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official..."
I'm not and never have been associated within the ranks of military intelligence but the two statements above, to me, just don't coincide in an intelligent retrospective. If the Nusra Front had indeed attacked American trained forces in Syria before then why would a Military analyst expect them not to do so again?
The "Rebellion" in Syria has entered a new phase with the many and variously supported groups now fighting each other for control when the Government finally cedes defeat. Why don't the USA Government trainers realize this and the brilliant war planners expect that they will be targeted merely because the are supported by the USA, a SEEMINGLY anti-Muslim faction?
America will never withdraw from the Middle East. Being there creates lots of money for the MIC, provides training for young Captains and older Generals. Despite having the largest expenditure in the world (something in the range of more than the next 10 countries combined), the US shows no inclination to stop. The mere mention of closing a base or scrapping a ship is met with outrage by the voters. The Right Wing is against any form of reduction. They account for approximately half the electorate. On the liberal side, probably half of them don't want the US to appear "weak" and are not in favor of reductions. So, the problem is of your own making. If you want this foolishness to stop, take away their toys. Stop allowing your government to overthrow other countries elected leaders. Can someone explain why the US can conduct airstrikes or drone attacks in Yemen, Afghanistan, Syria and many other places when there is not a declaration of war? Yet, Americans go berserk if some Muslim decides to attack your country and kills a few people. I don't get the distinction.
Who is controlling the air strikes on the ground? Not the Syrians we're training. Somebody needs to be identifying who is who before the pilot, racing in at 400 mph, hits the "pickle" button and drops those weapons.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
BEFORE THE UNITED STATES decided to declare war on Syria, there was low level fighting... and Syrians could still play soccer on weekends and go on picnics. But then Obama and Company decided that it was unfair that Syria's Assad -- like Iraq's Hussein, Libya's Gaddafi, Egypt's Mubarek, etc. -- wasn't getting equal military attention from the U.S.
So while Obama and Company bickered about drawing red lines in the sand... they, nonetheless, succeeded in turning Syria into a conflagration of death and destruction with millions of terrified refugees. And they succeeded in having Syria join the family of nations in the Middle East... where no one goes on picnics, anymore.
So while Obama and Company bickered about drawing red lines in the sand... they, nonetheless, succeeded in turning Syria into a conflagration of death and destruction with millions of terrified refugees. And they succeeded in having Syria join the family of nations in the Middle East... where no one goes on picnics, anymore.
1
Indeed. Take it to the Commander and Chief.
Eat each other peace in Syria
What the last decade and a half has shown is that in some areas of the world democracy cannot work so autocracy is a better solution.
1
Training fighters to fight ISIS is in itself a failure of humanity and common sense. The cause of all ills and the head of the cobra resides in Damascus, and his name is Bashar Al Assad. Any deviation from fighting him and his cohorts is a deviation from the right path and the right objective.After 9/11, the American Administrations have turned America into a beacon for dictators and their oppression, not a beacon for human rights and freedom.Any one any where who raises his head against oppressive regimes is immediately tainted with the title of being a "terrorist". Hundreds of millions of people are now terrorists.How can that be? And how can any one in his right mind believe this hoopla, razzmatazz, and bull?
Of course they were surprised. The intelligence analysts historically were white graduates of elite institutions with little experience in dealing with foreigners, muslims, or middle easterners, and only a bit of book learning.
And under pressure from this administration, they are being replaced with black and Latino US-born analysts with equally little experience and less book learning, as part of a "360 degree" "diversity" effort. As bad as things were, they are getting worse.
If you want to understand the locals, you need people with that understanding inside your organization.
And under pressure from this administration, they are being replaced with black and Latino US-born analysts with equally little experience and less book learning, as part of a "360 degree" "diversity" effort. As bad as things were, they are getting worse.
If you want to understand the locals, you need people with that understanding inside your organization.
Our government fights with ISIS for several months. But i haven't heard about significant progress. Epic fails, thick and fast. Intelligence failure again and again. Mr. Carter, $640 military spending in 2015 was too much! CIA is payed for nothing. Even Somali Intelligence works harder.
When the Russians support any group (like the legitimate government in the Ukraine) it is criminal when we support a any political foriegn group it is "supporting democracy"
2
Want to put the post-Saddam genie back in the bottle? Just support Assad, and get it over with.
5
From the article:
"A spokesman for the American military, Col. Patrick S. Ryder, wrote in an email statement that “we are confident that this attack will not deter Syrians from joining the program to fight for Syria,” and added that the program “is making progress.”"
Col Ryder could have a big career ahead of him telling delusional public relations stories for corporate America, or even for Presidential candidates who have no chance of ever getting elected, like Donald Trump.
If we weren't spending huge amounts of money for ridiculous military campaigns like this one, they would be sources of amusement. Instead, this many years into our absurd efforts to intervene in various Muslim countries' religious, political, tribal and secular battles, you would think we would know a bit more about the hatred and contempt ALL of these groups have for Americans, then plan accordingly. Instead, we think we can train "moderate" jihadist factions to fight against "extreme" jihadist factions. What are our Pentagon leaders thinking? Do they really think we believe in this nonsense put forward by their spokesmen?
3
Here we go again.
Can the Times give us a cheat sheet so we can know who to pull for.
I get so confused when it is not the good guys vs. the bad guys. The US is the good guy isn't it?
Can the Times give us a cheat sheet so we can know who to pull for.
I get so confused when it is not the good guys vs. the bad guys. The US is the good guy isn't it?
2
No we are the Great Satan. Hard to face.
Before the current time of politically correct and inept Orwellian "Newspeak" we would have substituted the word "stupidity" for the words "intelligence failure."
1
Hey, NYT, ask HRC what she would about this as CinC … and examine what she's done since voting for invasion & applauding occupation.
Dear President Obama
I notice that "rivals of ISIS" don't call them ISIL.
I notice that "rivals of ISIS" don't call them ISIL.
"Nusra Front, one of the strongest and best-financed forces on the ground in Syria...."
Thank you Qatar, thank you Saudi Arabia for the financing of these jihadists.
Thank you Qatar, thank you Saudi Arabia for the financing of these jihadists.
1
“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” Is that what John Kerry and President Obama will be saying when Iran develops the nuclear bomb thanks to the terrible deal that Kerry signed and Obama is pushing?
This should be a warning to us all. Say, "No," to the Iran deal.
This should be a warning to us all. Say, "No," to the Iran deal.
2
If we sat No then its another war , and we will lose again....some people never learn..
Without any agreement, what would keep Iran from developing a missile-delivered nuclear weapon within months???
Continued and harder sanctions. Cyber warfare.
1
With President Obama stacking up new legacy awards all the time, maybe Secretary Kerry could go back to the negotiating table, this time with ISIS, and give them a few atom bombs -- all under strict international inspection controls, of course -- in exchange for a little peace and quiet.
1
Why not. Couldn't be worse than Reagan giving the Taliban more weapons than they knew what to do with, or Dubya leaving the door open for bin-Laden.
So the Nusra Front is allied with Al-Qaeda and we expected the Nusra Front to cooperate with our paid "Division 30" proxy in Syria.
Well, I didn't think we'd be counting on the alliance of Al-Qaeda allied organizations, but what do I know, I guess the government had a pretty good plan.
Are we next going to be allied with ISIS to counter some other group?
Maybe, down the line, we'll be assuming that ISIS will be an ally of ours against some future
Well, I didn't think we'd be counting on the alliance of Al-Qaeda allied organizations, but what do I know, I guess the government had a pretty good plan.
Are we next going to be allied with ISIS to counter some other group?
Maybe, down the line, we'll be assuming that ISIS will be an ally of ours against some future
Once again American ignorance in the Middle East is on display. The hollow men of the Bush administration cast a long shadow over the disintegration of Syria. They cast the spear that splintered the cultural glass. The dissolution of the Iraqi army and the de- ba'athification of the government created ISIS.The past is prologue.
Appoint Paul Bremer as Coalition Provisional Authority Administrator for Syria and have him fire ISIS and the Nusra Front.
3
We have no friends in Syria. Repeat: we have no friends in Syria.
2
We have no friends in the Middle East.
2
Let me get this straight: we armed and trained a unit to specifically fight the Islamic State, and we didn't anticipate that an Al Qa'ida-affiliated group would attack them?
Seems like we're in way over our heads.
Seems like we're in way over our heads.
1
They should send in John Kerry. He will agree to anything.
Nuclear weaponized Iran in exchange for nothing? John Kerry says, sounds like a deal.
Nuclear weaponized Iran in exchange for nothing? John Kerry says, sounds like a deal.
1
"This wasn't supposed to happen like this."
That, in seven words, is a perfect summary of the Obama presidency. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran, OPM hacking and now TPP on the foreign front. VA failures, IRS scandal, Fast and Furious and Obamacare roll-out on the domestic front. And I am sure there are many more, those are just the ones that pop up first.
When executive inexperience and naïveté meet reality, 'this wasn't supposed to happen like this', is the result.
That, in seven words, is a perfect summary of the Obama presidency. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Iran, OPM hacking and now TPP on the foreign front. VA failures, IRS scandal, Fast and Furious and Obamacare roll-out on the domestic front. And I am sure there are many more, those are just the ones that pop up first.
When executive inexperience and naïveté meet reality, 'this wasn't supposed to happen like this', is the result.
4
I believe ISIS should be given 48 hours to stand down. I also believe all of the serious players in the ME would understand exactly what the consequences for them are and bring immediate pressure to bear before zero hour of Operation Entropy.
Could the overall message be any clearer? No one wants the US military/CIA/NSA in Syria, not ISIS (the former Baath rulers of Iraq), not the Syrians, nor the "rebels" fighting either ISIS or Assad. Yankee go home. We (the US) created this mess, now go away, let the people who have to live with it sort it out in their way. Don't we have issues here at home to deal with? Massive judicial and legislative corruption? Institutional racism and sexism? Inequality in income and education?
57
They want our check book!
"took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure"?
And HOW often have we read essentially that very same line over the latest 10 years?
And HOW often have we read essentially that very same line over the latest 10 years?
62
10 years?
How about going all the way back to 1953 and Operation Ajax, the CIA coup that overthrew Iran's secular democracy?
We should quit with the regime change and weapons dealing, pronto. We ALWAYS make it worse.
~
How about going all the way back to 1953 and Operation Ajax, the CIA coup that overthrew Iran's secular democracy?
We should quit with the regime change and weapons dealing, pronto. We ALWAYS make it worse.
~
1
The United States and a significant intelligence failure?
The United States is a significant intelligence failure.
The United States is a significant intelligence failure.
2
In a battle of all against all, who wins?
3
Arms dealers
Are we suffering from short term memory loss-Didn't we just spend billions training Iraqis to fight and now we are beginning to train Iraqis to fight and as soon as they are trained.... Where are the guys we just trained-maybe go find them first. THey are probably working for Haliburton now.
And " amounted to a significant intelligence failure." It did but in the the way that intelligence means smart . And what are we doing-if we are going in we should go in and do the job. Not limited airstrikes-this isn't a cocktail party-In or Out-not a single american life should be risked unless we are really going to do something significant. Otherwise NO!-
And " amounted to a significant intelligence failure." It did but in the the way that intelligence means smart . And what are we doing-if we are going in we should go in and do the job. Not limited airstrikes-this isn't a cocktail party-In or Out-not a single american life should be risked unless we are really going to do something significant. Otherwise NO!-
3
Viet Nam was a quagmire, Iraq war was a quagmire and this Syria/Iraqi involvement is a quagmire. The military industrial complex owns Washington DC. Our infrastructure is falling apart, education is under funded and kids go hungry but there is never a shortage when it comes to manufacturing military weapons and equipment for war.
11
I have to wonder what flag were they fighting under?
More brilliant results from robust US foreign policy, as the Pentagon licks its chops at the juicy prospect of more war, more contracts, more promotions. Looking good also for Lockheed & a slew of military suppliers. Looking bleak for the rest of us & the people of the Mideast.
3
This record plays over and over again.
1
It's kind of like a middle eastern Premier League, except with heads instead of footballs, and the players are armed with AK-47s and black market munitions. But yes, everyone hates the referees.
The United States' best option is to buy a second or third division team with pluck and a loyal fan base (AKA Kurdistan), and bless it with a constitution and some serious weaponry. Turkey will be annoyed, but c'est la vie.
The United States' best option is to buy a second or third division team with pluck and a loyal fan base (AKA Kurdistan), and bless it with a constitution and some serious weaponry. Turkey will be annoyed, but c'est la vie.
1
This is exactly why President Obama was correct in his inclination to stay the hell out of Syria.
The ISIS/ISIL/Whatever forces hate the U.S. for decades of interference. The "moderate" forces also hate the U.S. because we didn't do enough, soon enough to help them (in the extremely unlikely event that they succeed, who knows what they will do once in power?).
We need to stay course...by remaining out of Syria and its artificially manufactured Armageddon. Even though our own U.S. evangelicals would like nothing better than to hasten the "end times". What a weird cult!
The ISIS/ISIL/Whatever forces hate the U.S. for decades of interference. The "moderate" forces also hate the U.S. because we didn't do enough, soon enough to help them (in the extremely unlikely event that they succeed, who knows what they will do once in power?).
We need to stay course...by remaining out of Syria and its artificially manufactured Armageddon. Even though our own U.S. evangelicals would like nothing better than to hasten the "end times". What a weird cult!
3
What is the saying: With friends like that you do not need enemies. Face it, eveyone fighting has a different agenda than we do, and plan to fight for it.
1
The biggest error of US government is to employ the British strategy - support the minority to rule the majority. And that's why the British Empire collapsed.
Same here, US has been supporting Kurds, hoping that they will rule over the Syria and Iraq. Even, the bogus map was published showing the territories populated predominately by the Kurds to boost their patriotism. Obviously, the Kurds are incapable to create a stable government, they could do it for 100s of years, they would not be able to do it now. Besides, the Kurdish mentality (like the Arab mentality) doesn't allow them to consolidate as the Army. They are more designed for the partisan war or for the terrorist attacks. Too many groups: Peshmerga, PKK, YPG, ABC, XYZ. Sometimes, I even get confused which one is what.
Obviously, Turkey is only reliable player in the Middle East. Example, they managed to unify as Army during the WWI and save their country. They have the second biggest army after US in NATO. So they can be trusted and the alliance with Turks against ISIS is more valuable than the game we were playing with Syrian or Kurdish rebels so far.
Same here, US has been supporting Kurds, hoping that they will rule over the Syria and Iraq. Even, the bogus map was published showing the territories populated predominately by the Kurds to boost their patriotism. Obviously, the Kurds are incapable to create a stable government, they could do it for 100s of years, they would not be able to do it now. Besides, the Kurdish mentality (like the Arab mentality) doesn't allow them to consolidate as the Army. They are more designed for the partisan war or for the terrorist attacks. Too many groups: Peshmerga, PKK, YPG, ABC, XYZ. Sometimes, I even get confused which one is what.
Obviously, Turkey is only reliable player in the Middle East. Example, they managed to unify as Army during the WWI and save their country. They have the second biggest army after US in NATO. So they can be trusted and the alliance with Turks against ISIS is more valuable than the game we were playing with Syrian or Kurdish rebels so far.
2
and here we have a person who talks about 'mentalities'!
did you ever consider the turkish 'mentality'?
loyal, grave, brave...and completely fanatize-able!
we've seen how forthcoming the turks have been in terms of fighting IS. not!
did you ever consider the turkish 'mentality'?
loyal, grave, brave...and completely fanatize-able!
we've seen how forthcoming the turks have been in terms of fighting IS. not!
WWI saw the break-up of the Ottoman Empire; Turkey was just one part of that empire, so it can't really be said that the army "saved" their country.
The Turks, just like The Germans get the job done. If there was no the Ottoman Empire, Russia would have conquered the whole Europe and most likely America and Australia would end up speaking in Russia too (because it would end up being the Russian colony rather British).
With regards, the break up of the Ottoman Empire in WWI. Kathy, you need consider that Ottoman Empire was betrayed by many many nations who used to be claiming loyalty towards Sultan. The Turks who went through the lost in the Balkan War and the treason of Arab sheikhs, which allied themselves with the British this time, manage to consolidate Army and human resources in Anatolia and set decisive victories against British, French and Greeks troops.
I think we need to be practical and drop all anti-Turkish/Ottoman propaganda created by British, French, Greek and Russia media during WWI, and give credit to the Turks, they honestly earned it.
The fact is the fact, the Turkish army is only army who can handle ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And PKK should just disarm and stop terrorist acts on the Turkish soil.
With regards, the break up of the Ottoman Empire in WWI. Kathy, you need consider that Ottoman Empire was betrayed by many many nations who used to be claiming loyalty towards Sultan. The Turks who went through the lost in the Balkan War and the treason of Arab sheikhs, which allied themselves with the British this time, manage to consolidate Army and human resources in Anatolia and set decisive victories against British, French and Greeks troops.
I think we need to be practical and drop all anti-Turkish/Ottoman propaganda created by British, French, Greek and Russia media during WWI, and give credit to the Turks, they honestly earned it.
The fact is the fact, the Turkish army is only army who can handle ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And PKK should just disarm and stop terrorist acts on the Turkish soil.
This has been going on between countries and within countries in the mideast since way before America was 'discovered' ---
Build a wall around the whole region and come back in 100 years.
They will either all be dead or all be friends.
Build a wall around the whole region and come back in 100 years.
They will either all be dead or all be friends.
5
no it hasn't...things were very stable for a good 500 years. up to the 20th c. actually...
Tempting isn't it. We certainly cant sort it out, these tribes dont have our values, although it did take 2 World Wars to establish our values.
Watch Monty Python Life of Brian, you can see the Midfdle East satirised there, and it becomes truer every day with another new faction being formed.
Watch Monty Python Life of Brian, you can see the Midfdle East satirised there, and it becomes truer every day with another new faction being formed.
The only solution in this area is for the various warring tribes to get sick of war, combine to form a civilized society that administers justice, builds an economy and so on and so on.
You simply don’t have such elements in large enough supply in this area. The building blocks of decent society are not and never have been evident in the Arab world. Each existing tribe is controlled by psychopaths and on and on. An apparent solution is to have one psychopath, called a dictator, take over and give a semblance of order. But, in fact, he just continues the war in secret with torture and murder and so the elements of war exist but just under cover.
Obama has been strategically non-committal while using force when necessary. Nothing else you can do.
As a side note. These are the people Israel is supposed to make peace with. No other groups or entity, including themselves can or want peace but Israel is pressed to do this. End of story. No peace among themselves, no peace with Israel and no peace with anyone else.
You simply don’t have such elements in large enough supply in this area. The building blocks of decent society are not and never have been evident in the Arab world. Each existing tribe is controlled by psychopaths and on and on. An apparent solution is to have one psychopath, called a dictator, take over and give a semblance of order. But, in fact, he just continues the war in secret with torture and murder and so the elements of war exist but just under cover.
Obama has been strategically non-committal while using force when necessary. Nothing else you can do.
As a side note. These are the people Israel is supposed to make peace with. No other groups or entity, including themselves can or want peace but Israel is pressed to do this. End of story. No peace among themselves, no peace with Israel and no peace with anyone else.
3
There WAS a dictator who created stability in the region. We removed him. Remember?
1
It'll be better for our country if we lose this, as we have lost Iraq and Afghanistan and be forced to go home. We are good at evacuating,Vietnam, Libya, Yemen . Must hurt to see how impotent how ineffectual is our military. Tell them "Thanks for trying. Too bad it didn't work out". Let them go back to their families. We have destined enough of our youth.
3
To paraphrase LBJ, American boys shouldn't die because Syrian and Iraqi boys won't stand and fight for their countries.
Weapons we give them get captured and turned against us.
According to other times stories we can't put together two rifle platoons of this Free Syrian Army. Less than 100 men.
Give all this aid and training to the Kurds. They seem to stand and fight.
Better yet go home, new tunnels under the Hudson, or lower my cable bill.
Weapons we give them get captured and turned against us.
According to other times stories we can't put together two rifle platoons of this Free Syrian Army. Less than 100 men.
Give all this aid and training to the Kurds. They seem to stand and fight.
Better yet go home, new tunnels under the Hudson, or lower my cable bill.
4
It is unfair to blame the US military, Obama, etc,, for this minor mishap.
However, Obama, et al, deserve all the blame in the world for spending our money and prolonging a war to help people we supposedly care about and who supposedly are oppressed by ISIS. However, we don't care about the people there and ISIS probably represents the will of the people there. Otherwise they'd have been defeated already.
I wish we cared about the people there. But we don't.
So we should just leave.
However, Obama, et al, deserve all the blame in the world for spending our money and prolonging a war to help people we supposedly care about and who supposedly are oppressed by ISIS. However, we don't care about the people there and ISIS probably represents the will of the people there. Otherwise they'd have been defeated already.
I wish we cared about the people there. But we don't.
So we should just leave.
2
You're right, let the caliphate overrun Israel, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and the rest of North Africa. Big step forward for civilization. We took the lid off this snake pit, we own it.
Wouldn't it be cheaper and more effective to arm and train the Kurds? The Obama Administration and the CIA are not doing a very good job, unless they actually want the war to last for decades and kill millions of people because it will only turn out bad if either Al Nusra or ISIS survive.
2
Why are we surprised that this incident was a surprise?
Our Middle East 'experts' have been surprised for years. The fall of Mubarak, the Arab Spring, the Syrian Civil War, a nuclear deal with Iran, no weapons of mass destruction, the rise of ISIS, the list goes on and on and on....
The Middle East is and always has been extremely dangerous and unpredictable and our understanding of the region is not nearly sophisticated enough to predict much anything.
If you don't understand the stock market you don't play. If you don't understand weapons don't pick up a weapon. And if you don't understand the Middle East stay the heck away.
Our Middle East 'experts' have been surprised for years. The fall of Mubarak, the Arab Spring, the Syrian Civil War, a nuclear deal with Iran, no weapons of mass destruction, the rise of ISIS, the list goes on and on and on....
The Middle East is and always has been extremely dangerous and unpredictable and our understanding of the region is not nearly sophisticated enough to predict much anything.
If you don't understand the stock market you don't play. If you don't understand weapons don't pick up a weapon. And if you don't understand the Middle East stay the heck away.
6
After all is said and done wouldn't it be ironic that the only country on our side is Iran.
10
Wait, the Nusra Front, a group "allied with Al Qaeda" is seen as preferable to the Islamic State? In what realm are these people living? None, I repeat NONE of those religious fundamentalist extremists would ever be preferable to anything. Have we learned nothing from Afghanistan of the '90s? Playing with one group because they're the devil we know doesn't work, the devil will invariably spear you in the back. The only good extremist is a dead one.
3
The only people that the US can successfully spy on are the American people. The US military and/or the CIA clearly doesn't know what the hell is going on in Syria.
7
Our military leaders are surprised that Al Qaeda attacked US-aligned forces? You've got to be kidding. The only intelligence I have is reading the NYT, and I could have told them that Al Qaeda wouldn't be happy about American intervention.
When will we learn that we only make things worse whenever we intervene in the ME (or anywhere, for that matter)?
When will we learn that we only make things worse whenever we intervene in the ME (or anywhere, for that matter)?
6
Worse, everywhere? We didn't make things worse by intervention in 1917 and 1941. Germany, Japan and Italy are vastly better places now. Do you know what country in the world views us more favorably than anywhere else? The Philippines. What does that say, given our history there? Here's the rest of the top ten according to Pew - Israel, Kenya, El Salvador, Italy, Ghana, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Tanzania and France. In some of those places it was military. In France many died because of our intervention, but who would disagree they are not better off now than as a fascist puppet? In Ghana we helped topple their dictator. In Bangladesh it is financial aid. Of course we make many mistakes and have done bad things. It's incredibly complicated and you can't predict what is going to happen when you intervene. Of course, some days I think we've made a mess in the ME, but at other times I think that our model and intervention is the only chance they have to share in what we and other Westernized countries have and it is overall lucky for them that we think it is in our self-interest to intervene. As bloody and horrible as the world, it would probably be a lot worse without us. Even in China and Russia, Pew has found generally over the years 40-50% favorability (except Russia the last two years for obvious reasons). How many in Iran secretly feel this way?
"the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure....This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” What a naive thinking, Based on what, Saudi and Qatari guarantees? (unless it is the strategy) the US policy in the middle-east has been a wrecking ball. 4 years later, 230,000 lives lost, 9 Million refugees later and the "Nusra Front is the strongest and best-financed forces on the ground", The extremest are stronger than ever, they are no longer hiding in the mountains of Afghanistan, It is time for this administration to admit that they made a mistake by getting involved in Syria in the first place. The Saudi(s) and the Qatari(s) dragged the U.S. into this mess. The U.S. needs an exit strategy not more involvement.
3
"In Washington, several current and former senior administration officials acknowledged that the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure."
So! Why do you think our intelligence (i.e. lack of competent intelligence as was in case of Iraq) can be relied on in the so called deal with Iran.
So! Why do you think our intelligence (i.e. lack of competent intelligence as was in case of Iraq) can be relied on in the so called deal with Iran.
“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official...
well, neither was the arab spring in syria. in an insane asylum, expect insanity.
when are we going to talk about dividing former syria into mini-nations? former syria of the 2010s is the former yugoslavia of the 1990s. dayton might be the place again for the lunatics to try expressing a voice of reason.
well, neither was the arab spring in syria. in an insane asylum, expect insanity.
when are we going to talk about dividing former syria into mini-nations? former syria of the 2010s is the former yugoslavia of the 1990s. dayton might be the place again for the lunatics to try expressing a voice of reason.
1
Ever since Mr Obama's "surge" in Afghanistan in 2009, his foreign policy has shown not the slightest shadow or sliver of a clue. Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, Iraq, Syria, Israel, Russia/Ukraine, even China's incursions in the South China Sea - the US has suffered failure upon setback upon disappointment. The President just doesn't 'get' it, as we saw in his famous characterization of Isis as "JV Jihadists".
It's no wonder that he has trouble selling the Iran deal or TPP given his track record on foreign policy.
It's no wonder that he has trouble selling the Iran deal or TPP given his track record on foreign policy.
5
'Current and former senior administration officials said that the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise', is this the same intelligence agency that is going to know if Iran is cheating?
2
In a perfect world or from the U.S. perspective, dare I ask how this is supposed to end? What does “mission accomplished” look like? Peace; stability, no religious conflict, everyone happy and gainfully employed? Eerily resembles what we are trying to accomplish here in our own backyard. How do we expect to achieve those goals thousands of miles away, in a region which doesn’t want anything to do with us?
Over the course of 60 years, we have injected ourselves on both sides of this rickety Middle Eastern fence, propping and dismantling leaders who care little about America and our values. Yet we carry on- sending billions in weapons and economic packages, constructing roads, schools, providing electricity to towns [which we bombed ironically enough] and medical care.
Where is and what is the ROI [return on investment] for the United Sates?
Over the course of 60 years, we have injected ourselves on both sides of this rickety Middle Eastern fence, propping and dismantling leaders who care little about America and our values. Yet we carry on- sending billions in weapons and economic packages, constructing roads, schools, providing electricity to towns [which we bombed ironically enough] and medical care.
Where is and what is the ROI [return on investment] for the United Sates?
3
"Officials are trying to understand why the Nusra Front had turned on the trainees" ??!! A group allied with Al Qaeda attacks our mercenaries and officials are "surprised"
This is just another evidence of how clueless are those directing our policy in Syria and the ME in general. We have learned nothing from the Iraq debacle. Some heads should roll at the Pentagon and CIA! ( I mean this, of course, figuratively)
This is just another evidence of how clueless are those directing our policy in Syria and the ME in general. We have learned nothing from the Iraq debacle. Some heads should roll at the Pentagon and CIA! ( I mean this, of course, figuratively)
2
The hollow men of the Bush administration cast a long shadow over the disintegration of Syria. They cast the spear that splintered the cultural glass. The dissolution of the Iraqi army and the de-bathification of the government created ISIS. The past is prologue.
5
I didn't realize the al Nusra Qaeda affiliate was unsupportive of American-led efforts. I had thought its earlier wiping out of CIA-trained insurgents was a fluke.
2
Sounds like this force of fighting "moderates", predictably enough, has little or no motivation to sustain their enthusiasm.
We must be purposefully losing. There is no other logical explanation. No military or administration could be so incompetent.
3
It was an intelligence failure, but a stupidity success! The CIA needs to learn from two time bankruptcy filer Donald Trump and put a positive spin on their many disasters. Some of their disasters are well documented in the book "Legacy of Ashes." When are we going to quit wasting money on the middle east?
1
Sunni Turkey buys Sunni Isis oil at a steep discount. Turkish factories are humming along on this war dividend.
No one over there is our friend and we shouldn't sell slingshots or sharpened sticks.
Where would our nation be had we instead spent the trillions at home on infrastructure? Inner city unemployment would be halved. fewer people in prison. American manufacturing would be up.
Start on that path today.
Based on the amount of damage involvement over there has done to the nation, the perpetrators of that damage should be charged with treason.
Walker,Pollard,Ames and their ilk were amateurs in comparison.
No one over there is our friend and we shouldn't sell slingshots or sharpened sticks.
Where would our nation be had we instead spent the trillions at home on infrastructure? Inner city unemployment would be halved. fewer people in prison. American manufacturing would be up.
Start on that path today.
Based on the amount of damage involvement over there has done to the nation, the perpetrators of that damage should be charged with treason.
Walker,Pollard,Ames and their ilk were amateurs in comparison.
4
This is Groundhog day, over and over again. I am so sick of the power hungry CIA and Military making the same mistakes. My observations since the Vietnam War are the same. General Westmoreland, fifty thousand more troops, General Petraeus, the surge. Training foreigner's to fight for us, what a joke. All they want is that paycheck.
Bring our troops home, station them in our cities, cut the police in half and rebuild America.
Bring our troops home, station them in our cities, cut the police in half and rebuild America.
4
Yeah. The police force are our terrorists.
We always train and arm the wrong group. And, if we trained and armed the right group, they would eventually use that training to blow away our troops. The only winners in all this are the arms manufacturers.
5
As a former USAF special ops pilot and intell officer with an MA in insurgent wars, I know a bit about how these adventures play out. But prediction is tough, especially about the future (Yogi).
Even though the only reliable forecast in the Middle East calls for heavy downpours of bombs and bullets. With heavily concentrated civilian deaths, damages, and disruption of the social fabrics that bind communities together.
With near certainty of hatred and revenge.
And the only predictable outcome in the region seems to be more war, and more US military involvement--either directly or by proxy. Our track record in these battles is almost perfect--we win. And in wars as well--we lose.
Given the choice between the Republicans' drum-beating for regional wars that we can't win which actively harm US interests, and Obama's attempts to disengage without military catastrophe--the choice to support Obama should be easy for any informed student of the region.
If you care about Americans, not procurement contracts.
But oh what a pathetic set of choices!
We must predicate US strategy on long-term US interests. This will be a generational, regional war with shifting alliances of state and non-state actors.
Thus, we must talk, pressure our "frenemies" and dial down the nuclear threats - especially those of Israel - the only regional nuclear power.
And we must stop fueling this region with weapons, even at the cost of our Defense Contracting establishment.
Even though the only reliable forecast in the Middle East calls for heavy downpours of bombs and bullets. With heavily concentrated civilian deaths, damages, and disruption of the social fabrics that bind communities together.
With near certainty of hatred and revenge.
And the only predictable outcome in the region seems to be more war, and more US military involvement--either directly or by proxy. Our track record in these battles is almost perfect--we win. And in wars as well--we lose.
Given the choice between the Republicans' drum-beating for regional wars that we can't win which actively harm US interests, and Obama's attempts to disengage without military catastrophe--the choice to support Obama should be easy for any informed student of the region.
If you care about Americans, not procurement contracts.
But oh what a pathetic set of choices!
We must predicate US strategy on long-term US interests. This will be a generational, regional war with shifting alliances of state and non-state actors.
Thus, we must talk, pressure our "frenemies" and dial down the nuclear threats - especially those of Israel - the only regional nuclear power.
And we must stop fueling this region with weapons, even at the cost of our Defense Contracting establishment.
127
You should not have retired. They clearly need you at the White House. Long US interests, yes. Fox News noise, no! Disengage.
The defense industry wants endless wars because it is highly lucrative for them, simple to understand, just follow the money. I would suggest to these defense industry people that they go and learn a new trade or develop new skills because being a literal merchant of death & destruction is not really legitimate or honorable work. Millions of American who worked in manufacturing were thrown away when most of their jobs were sent to China and they had to retrain, the defense people should do likewise. I deeply resent my tax $ going to these defense contractors when we have so much work to do domestically.
We cannot agree what the US' long term, or even short term, interests are supposed to be. How then do we use them to create a foreign policy.
We really need to convince the planet that we are limited in scope of interests and cannot extend ourselves to solve every humanitarian problerm that the media and horrible foreign religious fanatics can dream up. Had Israel never existed, the disasters of the Middle East would still occur and there would still be screams and cries for the US to step in. Where, then,m are the Europeans who were so eager to leave the wing from under which they had sheltered for so long. So It appears that the USA is still the world's first resort when disaster strikes and even we are not big enough to undo the whole planet's Gordian knots. The USA is not only not big enough but we are not smart enough to do everything that needs to be done.
We really need to convince the planet that we are limited in scope of interests and cannot extend ourselves to solve every humanitarian problerm that the media and horrible foreign religious fanatics can dream up. Had Israel never existed, the disasters of the Middle East would still occur and there would still be screams and cries for the US to step in. Where, then,m are the Europeans who were so eager to leave the wing from under which they had sheltered for so long. So It appears that the USA is still the world's first resort when disaster strikes and even we are not big enough to undo the whole planet's Gordian knots. The USA is not only not big enough but we are not smart enough to do everything that needs to be done.
1
I certainly can't name all the players or the proxies in this Middle East war. And, I absolutely don't understand what the US strategy or end-game vision is. So, I admit I am not qualified to make serious comments or recommendation. But, one thing seems obvious.
In the Middle East, any group or individual or proxy associated with the US is doomed.
Why are we still spending time, money, and lives on this muddle?
In the Middle East, any group or individual or proxy associated with the US is doomed.
Why are we still spending time, money, and lives on this muddle?
2
Remember the film, The Life of Brian. It was a Monty Python comedy set at the time of Jesus that poked fun at religion. A central theme was many revolutionary factions, all fighting against the Romans and also fighting against each other for dominance. Each had their own sacred agenda. There were so many, it was difficult to tell them apart. Syria is a true to life reenactment with real bullets and caskets. What is most common between the two is that you can't tell the fighters apart. It's all a big mess of killing.
If our government thinks that we can unweave this tangled mess and make sense of it in any kind of strategic manner, then we would be better off just sending movies over there for the people to watch. The region has been so shattered that anything we do has no positive effect.
Talk about a fool's errand! We do nothing while over 200,000 are killed. We do nothing when ISIS forms and explodes across the region. The place is shot and now we get busy trying to implant so called moderate forces to combat vastly overpowering extremists.
Truth is, there are no moderates. If any group gains power, it will slaughter the opposition. Consequently, everyone wants to slaughter everyone else. This is standard Middle East operating procedure.
Syria is a failed state with all the terrorist trimmings. We won't take out Assad. We won't take out the terrorists. We just stir the pot. It's boiling over and we can't turn off the fire.
If our government thinks that we can unweave this tangled mess and make sense of it in any kind of strategic manner, then we would be better off just sending movies over there for the people to watch. The region has been so shattered that anything we do has no positive effect.
Talk about a fool's errand! We do nothing while over 200,000 are killed. We do nothing when ISIS forms and explodes across the region. The place is shot and now we get busy trying to implant so called moderate forces to combat vastly overpowering extremists.
Truth is, there are no moderates. If any group gains power, it will slaughter the opposition. Consequently, everyone wants to slaughter everyone else. This is standard Middle East operating procedure.
Syria is a failed state with all the terrorist trimmings. We won't take out Assad. We won't take out the terrorists. We just stir the pot. It's boiling over and we can't turn off the fire.
68
But this is what we planned all along. We get them to utterly destroy themselves and then we take over. It is working marvelously well. We should be rejoicing.
By intervening against an authoritarian regime that, however unsavory, posed no threat to specific American interests, we have allied ourselves with "rebels" and their allies who see the US as their sworn enemy. Score another one for liberal interventionism. Why can't we ever follow Dean Acheson's advice: "Don't just do something--stand there."
2
Will ever learn not to back rebel factions. Either stick with the sovereign country and it's leader or stay out of it. Obama's red line in the sand proves he's no smarter then the last tool we had in the White House! We can't keep playing the police force for the entire world. Stick with our known allies, protect our borders and let the rest of the world who hates us anyway figure out their own problems.
2
if there is no protracted war and chaos outside the US, Nobel Peace Prize Holder Obama will have to cut the military budget drastically. I wonder how long will he last in his office if he just throws out a hint that he is pondering on this idea.
1
Why in the world would we think we need to train anyone to fight? Human's fighting instinct trumps eating and sex combined. Let them work out their military tactics on their own.
4
Yet another "significant intelligence failure." Edward Snowden's fault, right?
If much less time and far fewer resources were spent gathering information on innocent American citizens on a massive scale, maybe much more time and far greater resources could be spent gathering information on our actual enemies (and we do have a lot of them).
That way, we wouldn't be surprised so consistently -- and so embarrassingly -- when ISIS and the rest of the terrorist hydra do what they invariably do.
If much less time and far fewer resources were spent gathering information on innocent American citizens on a massive scale, maybe much more time and far greater resources could be spent gathering information on our actual enemies (and we do have a lot of them).
That way, we wouldn't be surprised so consistently -- and so embarrassingly -- when ISIS and the rest of the terrorist hydra do what they invariably do.
1
It reminds me of those Iraq intelligence estimates from an agent code-named "Curveball" that led to the April 2003 invasion that uncorked this mess.
We keep making the same mistakes thinking it will produce different results this time around (Einstein's definition of insanity). We keep trying to impose our ideologically-driven interpretation of events and the political situation on the ground in Syria vis-a-vis the non-existent FSA, very real al-Nusra Front and ISIS; our interpretation better fitting our needs and aspirations. Problem is, it isn't remotely connected to reality there.
Blundering about the Syrian landscape this way and that, being misled by every party to the conflict at every turn, we can only make our already bad situation worse while, distracted by their setbacks, our leaders ignore the impending explosion in Egypt.
We keep making the same mistakes thinking it will produce different results this time around (Einstein's definition of insanity). We keep trying to impose our ideologically-driven interpretation of events and the political situation on the ground in Syria vis-a-vis the non-existent FSA, very real al-Nusra Front and ISIS; our interpretation better fitting our needs and aspirations. Problem is, it isn't remotely connected to reality there.
Blundering about the Syrian landscape this way and that, being misled by every party to the conflict at every turn, we can only make our already bad situation worse while, distracted by their setbacks, our leaders ignore the impending explosion in Egypt.
2
By the time we find out what really happens there in detail, the press will come out with all the errors we made. Just imagine what America would be if it tightened up its borders and used its resources to make itself an even better place. Let the rest self-destruct then the difference between us and the rest will be even bigger with no losses in our home. Instead, it seems that certain powerful groups around our government care less but for their possessions.
1
We should not have boots on the ground training folks but rather fighting with proxies only providing them with air and drone support. The splintering of fighters in Syria have never provided a clear choice on whom to support, this is nothing new in the Middle East - a band of nomadic tribes that is hard to ascertain who the winner and losers could be. Also who to trust with our intelligence, that it will not be sold.
3
The time is long past for the US to take a dispassionate and thorough examination of the quality of the "intelligence" it receives from its myriad of agencies... and how this intelligence is collated, analysed, and transformed into policy and strategic recommendations.
It should also analyse the internal structure and specific personnel in the various entities that analyse, influence and recommend potential strategies, with their carry-overs from and potential loyalties to previous administrations: "State" in particular as conerns "foreign affairs". Check the counter-productive nature of recent US strategy in Eastern Europe, in a 1980's NATO straight-jacket, the Middle East where historic allies have moved on and the US is still trying to pull frayed strings based on previous "shared interests" (hearts and minds while a stop-gap providing a not unsuccesful short term military objective, but now manifestly outdated), the Pacific where regional players have moved on and left the US once again in a 1970's - 1980s mindset: anti-Chinese trade agreements masquerading as strategy, no search for potential shared interests other than avoiding another Asian war and lock-step indentification with dubious, erstwhile allies...
The carry-over from previous administration's staff with their habitual attitudes and objectives is often frozen in previous decades. It is counter-productive, often significantly worse.
It should also analyse the internal structure and specific personnel in the various entities that analyse, influence and recommend potential strategies, with their carry-overs from and potential loyalties to previous administrations: "State" in particular as conerns "foreign affairs". Check the counter-productive nature of recent US strategy in Eastern Europe, in a 1980's NATO straight-jacket, the Middle East where historic allies have moved on and the US is still trying to pull frayed strings based on previous "shared interests" (hearts and minds while a stop-gap providing a not unsuccesful short term military objective, but now manifestly outdated), the Pacific where regional players have moved on and left the US once again in a 1970's - 1980s mindset: anti-Chinese trade agreements masquerading as strategy, no search for potential shared interests other than avoiding another Asian war and lock-step indentification with dubious, erstwhile allies...
The carry-over from previous administration's staff with their habitual attitudes and objectives is often frozen in previous decades. It is counter-productive, often significantly worse.
6
It seems if someone some where has misjudged the entire situation in the country. Did some simple minded jerk sitting in Washington make the decision to put 54 men into the middle of the war and for them to take over leadership? Again political children are again trying to run a war. Good Luck
3
Syria is complicated internally, very complicated. This event did nothing much to change the calculus of that before or after. Everyone learned from the war on Iraq there needs to be a standing structure of law enforcement and control at the end of war, something to work with and from which people to varying degrees will trust. Such is the predicament in Syria. How to extract the cancer without loss of the host body. Bashar must go, the Russians must be on board as a partner to the future in Syria, and a lot of elements of the Bashar government are still going to be around, both in government and business. It's not perfect, but the world is not a perfect place.
16
Nusra Front attacked an American-backed group whose aim is to destroy ISIS but at the same time is in an area with no ISIS activity?
Uh-oh
Uh-oh
US OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST NOW
Israel has every right to exist. The US has no obligation to pay for it!
Israel has every right to exist. The US has no obligation to pay for it!
5
The Nusra boys said they attacked the USA's proxy because they don't want the Syrian war to be an American project. You can't get a clearer explanation than that.
This is the sort of thing that inheres in being an imperial power: trying so hard to control outcomes in every corner of the world that it finally becomes self-defeating.
The U.S. thinks it has a dog in every fight; ultimately it reaches the point where it can't even explain to itself what its interests are. The USA has the same problem American cops have: not being able to distinguish actual threats from offenses upon which it thinks its authority depends.
This is the sort of thing that inheres in being an imperial power: trying so hard to control outcomes in every corner of the world that it finally becomes self-defeating.
The U.S. thinks it has a dog in every fight; ultimately it reaches the point where it can't even explain to itself what its interests are. The USA has the same problem American cops have: not being able to distinguish actual threats from offenses upon which it thinks its authority depends.
99
In its tangled alliances, the U.S. will soon be simultaneously supporting and dropping bombs on every group in the Middle East. I doubt in the whole of world history, there has ever been a foreign policy as tragic, expensive, comic, and as counter-availing as the one fostered by the country's neo-conservative criminal class.
1
Bill, very clear thoughts and reflections.Thank you.
1
This all feels so familiar. What was that country called? Vie...Viet...Vietna... Nah...forget it. We couldn't be so stupid after spending trillions in Iraq? Arming rebels in internal conflicts is so 50's or 60's or 70's! Beware the Military Industrial complex. It must be constantly be fed.
74
The Nusra Front is the group John McCain wanted the US to support. Never, ever, ever listen to anything John McCain says about US foreign policy. He's always wrong.
114
We really haven't a clue. I think the many of the groups fighting in the area haven't much of a clue either - who are their allies? who are their enemies? what are the goals? That's why the conflict is so complicated and so bloody and so endless. At some level this has been going on since the battle at Kerbala in 680.
We should concentrate on reaching an agreement with Iran on restraining their nuclear program. They want a deal. We want a deal. Those are positive steps.
Mesopotamia - i.e. the whole area between the Euphrates River, where it crosses from Turkey into Syria east of Aleppo and the Tigris which flows out of Turkey much further east and forms the extreme northeastern border of Syria with Iraq - is a mess. It's not up to the US to "solve" it. Western
interventions only make everything worse, starting with the British just after WW I. Think of the final scene in "Lawrence of Arabia" where the Arabs were squabbling at the meeting in Damascus. They're still at it.
We should concentrate on reaching an agreement with Iran on restraining their nuclear program. They want a deal. We want a deal. Those are positive steps.
Mesopotamia - i.e. the whole area between the Euphrates River, where it crosses from Turkey into Syria east of Aleppo and the Tigris which flows out of Turkey much further east and forms the extreme northeastern border of Syria with Iraq - is a mess. It's not up to the US to "solve" it. Western
interventions only make everything worse, starting with the British just after WW I. Think of the final scene in "Lawrence of Arabia" where the Arabs were squabbling at the meeting in Damascus. They're still at it.
18
Maybe so, maybe so, but how else can we keep Israel sending all those campaign contributions?
Cynical way to do it. Life threatening, even.
I forget ... is this who we were supporting this month, or one of those who we were last month, or one of those that that President Obama was called on the carpet 16 months ago for not supporting ... except back then it was to disrupt Syria and get our guy in, but now it's, for another week or ten days, to get the Syrian troops to fight the ISIS ... well, and maybe the anti-Syrian troops that we still can train ... until we can install our Democratic (well .. maybe Republican) type of government and make them so happy so fast that we'll be gone in a week or ten days?
Just asking.
Just asking.
27
So of the 54, half are dead or captured, and we're now involving ourselves in the Syrian Civil War with actual attacks on participants that aren't ISIS. Nice!
17
An author on Book Notes last week said a critical factor for the US's many military reversals is our lack of counter-insurgency programs, the type that stopped Che in Bolivia and also Farc, the Moro Lib. Front and Shining Path. (Moro's are peace-loving now.) We need far more Mossad-type incursions and night raids, etc. to get the big fish. Also we've trained fewer than 100 Iraqis to fight, so the weighty reassurances from WH and Pentagon last year from by Pres. Pollyanna and Gen. Pangloss re: taking back Fallujah and Ramadi were "such stuff as dreams are made on..." We have Special Forces of every stripe for the twilight zone between pinprick aerial bombing and armor-backed boots on the ground. One and done. Step it up, Pentagon.
2
This guy just loves the smell of gunpowder. A better solution than Clausewitz = let Israel fend for itself.
We can't do it. They view us as Crusader-Infidels and Jews.
They will never accept us.
They will never accept us.
1
Something is terribly wrong with US-led army advise/training in the Middle East.
In Iraq, despite hundred of millions spent in training and advanced weapon systems, the new Iraqi army was soundly defeated by ISIS.
Now, something similar is happening in Syria. 'Moderate' Syrian jihadists trained by special force teams are being trashed by Al Qaeda fighters.
In Iraq, despite hundred of millions spent in training and advanced weapon systems, the new Iraqi army was soundly defeated by ISIS.
Now, something similar is happening in Syria. 'Moderate' Syrian jihadists trained by special force teams are being trashed by Al Qaeda fighters.
27
Yes. It is true in Pakistan too, and was true in Vietnam too.
It is not our Army at fault. It is our government, or more precisely the government we try to establish there to serve our government.
The Army teaches them to shoot, and the technical skills. They just don't want to fight.
Yet other people from the same country fight very hard in the same combats. Their Vietnamese defeated our Vietnamese, their Afghans defeat ours, their Iraqis defeat ours, and all sorts of Syrians defeat ours. Why?
Like anyone else everywhere else, they fight for what they believe in, and they don't fight for something they don't believe in.
The problem is the useless corrupt puppets we set up as governments. In Syria we don't have even that, just a useless figurehead of expat "generals" to whom nobody is loyal.
Our puppet governments lose because they deserve to lose. That is what would have to change.
It is not our Army at fault. It is our government, or more precisely the government we try to establish there to serve our government.
The Army teaches them to shoot, and the technical skills. They just don't want to fight.
Yet other people from the same country fight very hard in the same combats. Their Vietnamese defeated our Vietnamese, their Afghans defeat ours, their Iraqis defeat ours, and all sorts of Syrians defeat ours. Why?
Like anyone else everywhere else, they fight for what they believe in, and they don't fight for something they don't believe in.
The problem is the useless corrupt puppets we set up as governments. In Syria we don't have even that, just a useless figurehead of expat "generals" to whom nobody is loyal.
Our puppet governments lose because they deserve to lose. That is what would have to change.
16
Get out! Get out! Get out!
83
So it can fester for more decades, like N. Korea, and Ukraine, and Somalia, and the rest? Turning tail solves nothing.
This can be easy problem to solve. We can ask our ally Israel to assist with the Nusra Front. Their fighters are regularly brought across the border for healthcare in the last couple of years as per Israeli papers.
11
To be fair, Israel has its hands full.
America should never interrupt its enemies while they are destroying each other. If the Sunni and Shia want to kill each other, let's not get in the way.
19
Actually we should aid both sides in their efforts to destroy each other. And that is precisely what we are doing. Once you know the mission you can relish in the success.
1
You are SOOOO right. It is all about Sunni and Shia all the time, ALL the time. Those people don't care about issues like democracy or health care or housing or education - they only care about Sunni and Shia and it will be EVER thus. All the rest is just commentary.
2
Thank you, Monsieur Bonaparte!
How many more times are we going to believe our geniuses in the field that this time they really have found some moderates to arm, train and support? Moderates in the Middle East, my Aunt Fanny!
35
The wheel keeps spinning round and round. Who are the real strategists here? I want to know their names. The names of the advisors and whisperers to pentagon and politicians. Who are these people and where do their true allegiances lie? As RetProf said above, We must predicate US strategy on long-term US interests." Who defines those interests? Is it 'for profit'? Humanitarian? (that's obviously a stretch), or is it the naive but well intentioned child trying to fix something s/he broke before Mom and Dad realize what happened. I want common sense, real answers.
2
Yet one additional reason for the US to stay out of the ME. The entire mind set is foreign to the US forces. Also the oil is not needed, so the US has no need to be there. It must rethink its involvement.
29
We are not helpful to anyone but arms sellers and military contractors. We need to take our advisors, military, war stuff and not mess with Syria, Iraq, iran, Yemen, All those countries...Out out out. Let the people of the middle east sort this out
39
How embarrassing ...
Where are the resignations, prosecutions, boards of inquiry? The top levels of government and business suffer from absolute lack of accountability.
Casey Stengel: "Can't anyone here play this game?"
Where are the resignations, prosecutions, boards of inquiry? The top levels of government and business suffer from absolute lack of accountability.
Casey Stengel: "Can't anyone here play this game?"
44
Many question why the President is unwilling to embroil us in the Syrian Civil War. This is why.
Wars cannot be won without accurate military intelligence about the enemy's plans and capabilities. The Allies defeated Nazi Germany in no small part through superior intelligence-gathering and code-breaking. Some of the story about how it came about is now known. Polish military intelligence donated its studies of an early-model German code generating device, an "Enigma" machine, to British military intelligence shortly before the war broke out in 1939, and the disassembled device itself. Their timely gift set in motion a long process that ultimately enabled Alan Turing's "bombs" at Benchley Park to read top secret German codes. It provided senior Allied leaders with an accurate picture of German operational plans and strategic capabilities during the war's most dangerous phases, at crucial turning-points in the conflict.
Although he would never speak of it in public, the President behaves like we lack such advantages in Syria.
Wars cannot be won without accurate military intelligence about the enemy's plans and capabilities. The Allies defeated Nazi Germany in no small part through superior intelligence-gathering and code-breaking. Some of the story about how it came about is now known. Polish military intelligence donated its studies of an early-model German code generating device, an "Enigma" machine, to British military intelligence shortly before the war broke out in 1939, and the disassembled device itself. Their timely gift set in motion a long process that ultimately enabled Alan Turing's "bombs" at Benchley Park to read top secret German codes. It provided senior Allied leaders with an accurate picture of German operational plans and strategic capabilities during the war's most dangerous phases, at crucial turning-points in the conflict.
Although he would never speak of it in public, the President behaves like we lack such advantages in Syria.
I'm beginning to think conspiratorially. There must be something murky going on here because geo-politically our actions in the middle east make no sense. Now we're aligned with the Turks who are trying to annihilate the Kurds who played a significant role in the defeat of Tayyip Erdogan in the last Turkish election. In the meantime, we're arming and training small groups who are committed to battle ISIS in Syria, but not the Syrian government. Our proxies in this battle are now fighting other sub-groups in a war within a war. Obviously, this could continue to exhaustion. Who in the U.S.A. profits from this?
55
The military-industrial complex President Eisenhower warned us about.
4
It might be ineptitude, not conspiracy. The Obama Administration has no strategy, and its policy is to bequeath the Middle East horror show to the next one. It has tactics, none of which have been thought through, and reliance on surrogates who have their own agendas. In other words they know what they are doing; the US does not.
Who benefits the most from US punked by Al Qaada?
That would be our good friends the Saudis. They're playing the most complicated game, funding multiple clones of Al Qaada confounding our intelligence agencies' ability to follow the money. Just two weeks ago, Turkey was with the Saudis. They announced the joint Safe Zone plan and immediately started to bomb Kurds. Wouldn't the Turks have known the whereabouts of the newly US trained Syrian moderates?
They're playing us. If, as Saudis and Turks would prefer, Asaad steps down next week, then the puppet masters will have to step out of the shadows. Would the US stand by as Saudis and Iranians unleash a sunni shia blood bath in Syria.
It's a combustible situation. Just as Saudis are pounding away at rubble in Yemen and refusing passage to humanitarian aid, likewise I see no end to their passive aggressive wink wink nod nod enabling of jihadists.
That would be our good friends the Saudis. They're playing the most complicated game, funding multiple clones of Al Qaada confounding our intelligence agencies' ability to follow the money. Just two weeks ago, Turkey was with the Saudis. They announced the joint Safe Zone plan and immediately started to bomb Kurds. Wouldn't the Turks have known the whereabouts of the newly US trained Syrian moderates?
They're playing us. If, as Saudis and Turks would prefer, Asaad steps down next week, then the puppet masters will have to step out of the shadows. Would the US stand by as Saudis and Iranians unleash a sunni shia blood bath in Syria.
It's a combustible situation. Just as Saudis are pounding away at rubble in Yemen and refusing passage to humanitarian aid, likewise I see no end to their passive aggressive wink wink nod nod enabling of jihadists.
1
Oh, my goodness gracious! Just how much more hilarious can this get? We have made ourselves an interntional laughing stock with our foolish interventions.
38
As some showman or another used to say, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!"
Since when did our "intelligence" agencies obtain a satisfactory level of "intelligence" about events taking place in that part of the world? We don't even know the identity of the "players" in this tragedy.
We likely will always be playing "catch up." It's known as "unintended consequences" from the hubris that permeated our mindset during the Bush years by the morons who still hang around giving their "sound" counsel to members of Congress and a few of the presidential hopefuls.
God: Give us the wisdom to recognize that we are incapable of understanding the complexities of human actions. Our best hope is to ask the right questions, only.
We likely will always be playing "catch up." It's known as "unintended consequences" from the hubris that permeated our mindset during the Bush years by the morons who still hang around giving their "sound" counsel to members of Congress and a few of the presidential hopefuls.
God: Give us the wisdom to recognize that we are incapable of understanding the complexities of human actions. Our best hope is to ask the right questions, only.
26
"“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official, who was working closely on Syria issues until recently, and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss confidential intelligence assessments."
Too pathetically clueless to even be embarrassed.
Too pathetically clueless to even be embarrassed.
114
Don't blame the guy who spoke out - blame all the idiots before him. We need more people in the thick of it to speak out. We should be glad when they do, even anonymously.
3
How long are we going to be inserting ourselves in other countries battles? Enough already. These people have been fighting for centuries. Who cares? We don't even know who the good guy's are. Our money needs to stay here and take care of our own country and our own people.
109
@Kareena: "... in other countries battles?"
Nusra Front and Division 30 aren't "countries". Please clarify your point.
"Who cares?"
Perhaps this will help you answer your own question:
"The war has killed at least 230,000 Syrians, wounded more than a million and displaced more than nine million, half the country’s population."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world/middleeast/nusra-front-attacks-u...
Nusra Front and Division 30 aren't "countries". Please clarify your point.
"Who cares?"
Perhaps this will help you answer your own question:
"The war has killed at least 230,000 Syrians, wounded more than a million and displaced more than nine million, half the country’s population."
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world/middleeast/nusra-front-attacks-u...
2
It's one thing to "care" it's another to have a clue what's going on and know what to do.
16
If it wasn't for the oil, we would not have inserted ourselves in that region for the last 70 years!
2
America has long suffered from total incompetence when it comes to Middle Eastern policy. Our ignorance of the region, its history, culture, religion, alliances and adversaries has led to phenomenal blunders by the US. Two of the hugest blunders were:
1. The overthrow of a democratically elected leader in Iran in 1953 (Mosaddegh) which has created the disastrous relationship with Iran that we now have.
2. The insanely idiotic invasion of Iraq, which, in addition to killing and maiming hundreds of thousands including Americans, has left Iraq a totally broken state, and with it, a Middle East in genocidal turmoil. (Not to mention billions in wasted US taxpayer dollars.)
When it comes to the Middle East, it is hard to image the US being more stupid, incompetent, self destructive, unethical, and immoral than it has been. Will we never learn ?
1. The overthrow of a democratically elected leader in Iran in 1953 (Mosaddegh) which has created the disastrous relationship with Iran that we now have.
2. The insanely idiotic invasion of Iraq, which, in addition to killing and maiming hundreds of thousands including Americans, has left Iraq a totally broken state, and with it, a Middle East in genocidal turmoil. (Not to mention billions in wasted US taxpayer dollars.)
When it comes to the Middle East, it is hard to image the US being more stupid, incompetent, self destructive, unethical, and immoral than it has been. Will we never learn ?
260
It began in 1953 with stupid, delusional Pentagon-CIA (AF Gen. Cabell)incompetence and equally effective White House-Congressional oversight. Things haven't changed. It is a world of centuries old tribal-religious warfare.
Get a clue State Department/Pentagon/NSC/CIA--no more blood or treasure to be lost in the Middle East, i.e., stop digging. Let the locals deal with it. Time to leave.
Get a clue State Department/Pentagon/NSC/CIA--no more blood or treasure to be lost in the Middle East, i.e., stop digging. Let the locals deal with it. Time to leave.
2
Read any history of US involvement in Vietnam! The March of Folly continues...
3
We don't want to learn. The MIC will always seek and encourage war because there's no money in peace when your business model is based on conflict.
In a just world, we would prosecute every war profiteer that made a fortune in Iraq and Afghanistian, and give that money to the families of deceased military members and to wounded soldiers.
In a just world, we would prosecute every war profiteer that made a fortune in Iraq and Afghanistian, and give that money to the families of deceased military members and to wounded soldiers.
3
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Old Mid Eastern proverb.
Long time past we get out of the Middle East. It is not, and never will be a zero sum game due to too many partners we do not understand.
Long time past we get out of the Middle East. It is not, and never will be a zero sum game due to too many partners we do not understand.
13
Wow! Talk about us opening up Pandora's box (and I do not mean the internet music service). How on earth are we supposed to help anyone there if they are more intent on attacking each other? If they keep changing allegiances seemingly daily?
I for one am relieved that we are not sending our men and women in harm's way. I sincerely hope we do not send our men and women there to do the dirty work of the countries in the region. Our men and women are simply not worth this level of savagery and has been shown over and over, all the bazillions of dollars and hours in "training" these folks is nothing but a waste.
To those on the right who blame Obama for this mess: who got us into the region in the first place?
I for one am relieved that we are not sending our men and women in harm's way. I sincerely hope we do not send our men and women there to do the dirty work of the countries in the region. Our men and women are simply not worth this level of savagery and has been shown over and over, all the bazillions of dollars and hours in "training" these folks is nothing but a waste.
To those on the right who blame Obama for this mess: who got us into the region in the first place?
60
"Who got us into this mess in the first place?" It sure was not President Obama ! I pray that we would just leave it alone in the entire Middle East and stay home and let them have at it. The United States could never bring peace to bear over there - never ! It is not our calamity. Our military expenditure is the largest line item in the US budget and I hear constant rumblings that we could reduce that item substantially if Congress would just eliminate the redundancy in our military investment rather than to continue to play politics !!
9
@smath: "I for one am relieved that we are not sending our men and women in harm's way."
Don't be too sure about that. The article vaguely refers to the "American-led coalition" carrying out airstrikes.[1] The Times should clarify that by saying what coalition members are carrying out these airstrikes and who is on the ground calling them in.
BTW, airstrikes put pilots "in harm's way".
[1] From the article: "The American-led coalition responded with airstrikes ... The strikes were the first known use of coalition air power in direct battlefield support of fighters in Syria who were trained by the Pentagon."
Don't be too sure about that. The article vaguely refers to the "American-led coalition" carrying out airstrikes.[1] The Times should clarify that by saying what coalition members are carrying out these airstrikes and who is on the ground calling them in.
BTW, airstrikes put pilots "in harm's way".
[1] From the article: "The American-led coalition responded with airstrikes ... The strikes were the first known use of coalition air power in direct battlefield support of fighters in Syria who were trained by the Pentagon."
7
The Turkish attack on Kurds PKK along the border with Syria is another anomaly in a war of anomalies. The 60-mile buffer zone that Turkish and US-Coalition forces agreed to hold may be optimistic. The better solution would be to economize and improve the efficiency of border security resources. Choosing to narrow the gap in less sensitive border areas and increasing the defense zones where active border crossing between Turkey and Syria would be more likely, seems a better use of personnel and material resources. Given the fractious loyalties presented by Nusra Front attacking ally Division 30, an alternative US-Coalition plan is in order. I think it wiser to focus on supply-chain disruption and cessation, including recruits crossing from Turkey into Syria. The capstone term would require an agreement from Saudi Arabia to establish and enforce a criminal law provision that provides severe financial penalty and incarceration for treason if any of their citizens or residents (royal or non-royal) provide support to the Islamic State. Without Saudi Arabia's assistance to arrest financial, material and personnel support to Islamic State, the war will drag on and a new generation of disconnected youth educated in the refugee camps, attacked to IS digital media marketing, will pick-up the fight.
We need to refocus a good portion of financial resources away from bombing sorties with mixed results to refugee accommodations, education and basic healthcare.
We need to refocus a good portion of financial resources away from bombing sorties with mixed results to refugee accommodations, education and basic healthcare.
3
“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official"
That could be the banner of all our efforts in that end of the world. We should pack up and leave - NOW!
That could be the banner of all our efforts in that end of the world. We should pack up and leave - NOW!
223
Let's put that on an aircraft carrier.
Then let them come home early instead of extending their deployment.
Then let them come home early instead of extending their deployment.
1
Leave? We need to keep the military industrial complex humming! And of course make sure we have tax cuts for corporations (who are people BTW) and the wealthy. Where would we spend the trillions? Roads, bridges, affordable housing, a new TRANS-HUDSON TUNNEL?
5
Our intelligence community get huge amounts of tax dollars, money that could go to infrastructure, schools, public health. It is clear this current administration is destroying our country the question is: why? Reality is nobody could be this inept over and over, perhaps our government wants to create a world situation where democracy is degraded. Could the real terrorists be the very people who we pay vast amounts of tax dollars to keep American Citizens safe. The true enemy is a government that has lost its connection with its own citizens and creating a world where there is a terrorist behind every tree. Please readers understand our democracy is under threat from within, it is our responsibility to change it: talk to your family, friends, elected officials. Reality is democracy is under threat do nothing and we become robots working for an elite class with little interest in the quality of life of the majority of Americans.
2
Time for US to get out of this region for good. Only group that deserves our unconditional support are the Kurds, and Obama refuses to arm them. They are only group protecting christians and other monorities.. Now our NATO ally, Turkey, is using excuse of terrorism to go after the Kurds and bomb them. Let them all fight it out to the death if that is what they want. UN cannot do much either. Rescue as many of the Christians , Yazidis and Druze that we can and find safe havens for them.
55
True..we do owe the Kurds. We should sanction Turkey. Remove sanctions on Iran and get out of the territory
3
"Now our NATO ally, Turkey, is using excuse of terrorism to go after the Kurds and bomb them."
It is not an excuse. Our sometime friends in Syria really are terrorists. Many have long been listed by us as terrorists, and the rest should be.
It isn't an excuse, it is the problem with the whole plan.
It is not an excuse. Our sometime friends in Syria really are terrorists. Many have long been listed by us as terrorists, and the rest should be.
It isn't an excuse, it is the problem with the whole plan.
The Turks are not our ally. They are our mortal enemy.
2
When the Times published the article on the so-called “safe zone,” I commented that it was delusional to expect these not-moderates to sweep out the Islamic State. It has only been four days and already we have a debacle, the first of many to come.
President Obama is being advised by incompetents who think that if they deny reality, they can manufacture an alternate one. The reality is that no predominantly Sunni Salafist group sponsored by or allied with Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Al Qaeda will ever be able to defeat ISIS. They will always want to ally themselves with their co-religionists to avoid being attacked and killed.
Here is the ugly reality: Iran, Hezbollah, the Syrian Arab army, and the Kurds are only groups that we can ally with to defeat ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the Salafists because they are fighting for their survival, for them is kill or be killed. If we are unwilling to make a temporary alliance with them, we should just focus on stopping Iraq from falling apart because to paraphrase Colin Powell, we broke it and now we own it.
President Obama is being advised by incompetents who think that if they deny reality, they can manufacture an alternate one. The reality is that no predominantly Sunni Salafist group sponsored by or allied with Turkey or Saudi Arabia or Al Qaeda will ever be able to defeat ISIS. They will always want to ally themselves with their co-religionists to avoid being attacked and killed.
Here is the ugly reality: Iran, Hezbollah, the Syrian Arab army, and the Kurds are only groups that we can ally with to defeat ISIS, Al Qaeda, and the Salafists because they are fighting for their survival, for them is kill or be killed. If we are unwilling to make a temporary alliance with them, we should just focus on stopping Iraq from falling apart because to paraphrase Colin Powell, we broke it and now we own it.
38
You need to add Assad and the Syrian Army to your list. The Alawites will be slaughtered if Islamic State takes over.
12
No. Iraq does not exist. It is forever broken. And Colon Powell? Without his efforts the Iraq War and its tragic consequences would not have happened.
1
Phil;
So cool strategy is let Assad/Alawites continue butcher the majority 93 percent 'sunnis' in Syria!!!! Assad, pol pot junior, would get away with this genocide/mayhem/slaughter as media portray Assad and his trendy wife as 'secularist' and 'modernistic' . Quite interesting!!!!
So cool strategy is let Assad/Alawites continue butcher the majority 93 percent 'sunnis' in Syria!!!! Assad, pol pot junior, would get away with this genocide/mayhem/slaughter as media portray Assad and his trendy wife as 'secularist' and 'modernistic' . Quite interesting!!!!
How was this attack a surprise when it was printed in the paper just yesterday that this unit was not "designed" to fight Nusra? Sounds like the Pentagon has its new vocabulary in place for the conflict, but otherwise it's hard to put a positive spin on it. Casualty rates like that and Division 30 will evaporate soon enough.
11
@mford: '... it was printed in the paper just yesterday that this unit was not "designed" to fight Nusra ...'
Wow! I thought you were making that up, but a named American general actually used the word "designed":
'Trainees will lose American support, Gen. Lloyd J. Austin III, head of the United States Central Command said recently, if they “vector off and do things that we haven’t designed them to do initially.”'
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/world/middleeast/us-trained-islamic-st...
Wow! I thought you were making that up, but a named American general actually used the word "designed":
'Trainees will lose American support, Gen. Lloyd J. Austin III, head of the United States Central Command said recently, if they “vector off and do things that we haven’t designed them to do initially.”'
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/31/world/middleeast/us-trained-islamic-st...
5
The only viable short term solution is to arm, train and finance our Kurdish Allies in Syria. The Kurds are the only force willing and capable to defeat ISIS. Or we could wait 20 years, or 50 years and hope it sorts itself out.
17
I'd go for wait...
14
The Kurds. If they have more weapon they will invade Turkey and Iran to free more Kurds and there will be an even bigger party on the ground. It is best to keep weapon and money out of the region and let them limit the killing to just with stone tools.
1
Can the US stop telegraphing their military strategies to their adversaries? Sheesh.
8
What "military strategies" were "telegraph[ed]" in this article?
3
We can see now why the idea of putting American boots on the ground in Syria was a really bad idea, when these anti-ISIS factions and maybe-sorta-anti-ISIS factions can't agree on who among them must be killed first.
76
In today's Jerusalem Post , American expatriate and right wing fanatic, Caroline Glick condemns Obama for not putting troops into Syria an for allowing Turkey to join US in fighting ISIL and terrorists. So we cannot even please our so called Israeli friends by just bombing ISIL. The entiire region has gone mad.
8
If it was such a "really bad idea," why did Obama draw that ol' line in the sand and dare Assad to cross it? Paper tiger, Obama.
1