I do give my condolences to that family who had lost their toddler to an arsonist, and I feel what they did was wrong. However, many keep forgetting that this was done by a group that doesn't represent the rest of the Israeli population, just a small fringe group that even their own people have condemned. I won't say that Jewish extremists don't exist, but I do know a number of Jews that have called out their actions quite constantly. As a matter of fact, when they are caught, they aren't just condemned by their own kind, but they are also brought into custody and convicted for their acts. Meanwhile, when a Palestinian or Arab extremist attacks any Israeli or Jewish civilian, they are given nothing more than a slap on the wrist or some house arrest that will hardly ever be enforced. Another thing is that they are considered heroes for what they did and there are places named after them not to mention Hamas celebrates that day by giving out candy, which I have never seen on the Israeli side for any reason. This shows who is condoning such actions and who isn't. Also, I could never understand why some choose to turn a blind eye when Israeli civilians are getting killed when all they did was mind their own business. If you want to talk about killing a baby, let's not forget that a few months ago a Palestinian drove his car at a family in Jerusalem and killed their baby, and some tried to justify that killing in the claim it was an act of resistance.
2
In the meantime other Israeli terrorist akkacks took place, so the Israeli Armi killed two more palestinians which didn't like them.
That's life in Israel's officially not occupied Palestinian lands, that's the uneven permanent war which nobody think to stop.
The only way to stop that is stopping the money flow from USA, but Mr Obama gave them more money recently to compensate the Iranian deal.
In such a way the Israli-Palestinian war will never finish, et least until the next diaspora.
That's life in Israel's officially not occupied Palestinian lands, that's the uneven permanent war which nobody think to stop.
The only way to stop that is stopping the money flow from USA, but Mr Obama gave them more money recently to compensate the Iranian deal.
In such a way the Israli-Palestinian war will never finish, et least until the next diaspora.
9
So far there are victims, accusations and suspicions, more victims and more violence. It's a lovely, deadly game of musical chairs.
I am glad so many people are 100 percent certain they know who is to blame. Or do they hope they know? I have no idea, but sounds a bit like the Ox Bow Incident?. Well, not quite. I think Kipling said to keep your head when all those around you are losing theirs. Not likely when the music stops.
I am glad so many people are 100 percent certain they know who is to blame. Or do they hope they know? I have no idea, but sounds a bit like the Ox Bow Incident?. Well, not quite. I think Kipling said to keep your head when all those around you are losing theirs. Not likely when the music stops.
1
"Price tag" attack indeed. Another Palestinian family pays the price so thugs and terrorists and their supporters from L.A., NYC, and Europe, can feel superior and entitled as they carry out their brutal occupation. All of which is funded and enabled by the U.S. government and taxpayers. This is a price I do not want to pay or support. Disgusting!!
11
It is time to cut loose Israel. The current Israeli government has done everything to encourage the radical extreme right. Their last political campaign was all about fear and hate. Every dollar we send to Israel supports the occupation of Palestine. We are responsible for the current state of affairs because we have refused to open our eyes to what Israel has become. Our blind support makes us accomplices of these tragedies. It is time to be a true friend to Israel, something our ignorant congress is incapable of, by forcing a two state solution, but one that has a viable Palestinian state that will not be at mercy of Israel. It is time to confront every single politician, who advocates this blank check policy, and hand them a court date for supporting crimes against humanity. It is time to treat Israel as we have treated Iran, South Africa, and every other pariah state that was threat to peace. Enough is Enough! End all support to Israel!
15
If a Palestinian had killed a Jewish settlers baby there would be hundreds of Palestinians arrested by now. The fact not one settler is in jail for this crime right now speaks volumes. Not that we should be surprised. I imagine whenever a Palestinian sees an IDF soldier or a settler all they see is a monster.
17
The reason they aren't in jail right now is because they haven't been caught yet. When they do, they will be incarcerated as well has given preliminary hearings as the court process is supposed to work. My guess is that when the Palestinians do this, it's alright and justified, because you feel that it's some kind of resistance group rather than terrorists. If you asked me, Hamas are the real monsters here and the Palestinians need to stand up to them if they ever want to have real peace rather than live in fear of them. Keep in mind that any Palestinian that calls out Hamas is usually killed or arrested and claimed to be an Israel collaborator hence a traitor if they ever do such thing.
1
There are comments on this thread that Netanyahu "humane" "entire Israeli govt. called it terrorism" "Jewish people of Israel never condone violence or terrorism" etc.
Now here's something from The Guardian, UK:
About Mr. Netanyahu:
"Look only at his actions in recent days. Stung by the protests at Bet El, he announced construction of another 300 units in Bet El and 504 in East Jerusalem. In other words, he did not punish the settlers for their lawless behaviour: he rewarded it."
And this about Naftali Bennett, Mr. Netanyahu's coalition partner:
"Take Bennett. Put aside his repeated insistence that there will never be a Palestinian state, thereby crushing the dreams of an independent life for all those living under Israeli rule. Focus only on his conduct this week. Today’s murderous arson attack is assumed to be an act of revenge for the court-ordered dismantling on Wednesday of two buildings in the West Bank settlement of Bet El. The buildings were unfinished and empty. Israel’s supreme court ruled them illegal and ordered the army to demolish them. The settlers raged at the decision, demonstrating violently against the soldiers and police who were there to enforce it. And guess who stood on a roof at Bet El, egging the protesters on, stirring them to ever greater heights of fury? Why, it was Naftali Bennett."
Full story here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/31/israel-hawks-dodge-...
Now here's something from The Guardian, UK:
About Mr. Netanyahu:
"Look only at his actions in recent days. Stung by the protests at Bet El, he announced construction of another 300 units in Bet El and 504 in East Jerusalem. In other words, he did not punish the settlers for their lawless behaviour: he rewarded it."
And this about Naftali Bennett, Mr. Netanyahu's coalition partner:
"Take Bennett. Put aside his repeated insistence that there will never be a Palestinian state, thereby crushing the dreams of an independent life for all those living under Israeli rule. Focus only on his conduct this week. Today’s murderous arson attack is assumed to be an act of revenge for the court-ordered dismantling on Wednesday of two buildings in the West Bank settlement of Bet El. The buildings were unfinished and empty. Israel’s supreme court ruled them illegal and ordered the army to demolish them. The settlers raged at the decision, demonstrating violently against the soldiers and police who were there to enforce it. And guess who stood on a roof at Bet El, egging the protesters on, stirring them to ever greater heights of fury? Why, it was Naftali Bennett."
Full story here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/31/israel-hawks-dodge-...
16
For the umpteenth time, East Jerusalem is NOT part of the West Bank nor has it ever been considered, it's the other half of Jerusalem that was divided until after the Six Day, plus it's very likely that most of it won't be included in the peace deal since it never was part of the West Bank to begin with.
1
This horrible incident proves that a two state recognition is desperately needed right now! Also, If all the illegal Israeli settlements were required to accept a minimum of 10% Palestinians as their as residents living within, not separated therein, it would be beginning of the end of the long term hostility between the two races.
3
ISRAEL has a history of tragic attacks by religious extremists. The nation knows all too well of the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by two religious extremists who were reportedly acting on orders from their rabbi. Is Israel is serious about prosecuting the terrorists who perpetrated arson and murder on Duma. Top Israeli officials have publicly announced their intention to investigate and prosecute. Netanyahu, in one of his more humane moments, visited the family in hospital. Let us hope that he will continue along the same lines to find a way to make Israel safe while treating her neighbors with consideration.
3
Please tell me what the Palestinian Authority does to combat extremists on their side.
1
The Israeli government, and Bibi, simply do not have the GUTS to take on the people in their illegal settlements, and many elements in their armed forces are also effectively out of government control, unless accomodated. Israel needs to test this, and call out the military to evacuate the settlements, either deporting or relocating the settlers in Israel proper.
7
The guts? They did everything to encourage them. Their primary discourse was fear mongering during the last campaign. This is what they have worked so hard to create and now, for the cameras, they act concerned.
10
Can you please tell me what happened in the Gaza Strip shortly after all the settlements were evacuated and demolished along with removing every last Jew there and how Hamas celebrated that?
1
So, today, Israelis murdering more children. Now, it's a teenager protesting the arson and murder of a toddler. I will never again blame Palestinians for fighting back, however they can do it.
13
Well, it appears that your teenager was throwing firebombs at soldiers. The infant was certainly an innocent victim, but the teenager? Not so much.
2
Well, that's nice.
Now, the billions we send to Israel is being used to support terrorism.
Money well spent...
Now, the billions we send to Israel is being used to support terrorism.
Money well spent...
14
The perpetrators should be identified as Israelis not "Jews". Doing so incites antagonism and violence against all Jews. I am Jewish, I am neither a religious zealot nor support extremism. The NYT consistently biases reporting on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict to advance anti-Jewish sentiment. The headline could have read; "Israeli suspected in attack that killed Muslim toddler..."
3
Except many a times the PM of Israel claims to speak for all Jews. Furthermore the state that supports the settlement of the West Bank by radicals wants to be regocnize as "The Jewish State"
15
@TDSF
So what, who Netanyahu claims to speak for? Funny how people consider him a liar when he says anything other than that he speaks for all Jews. This claim, however, you give credence to. It couldn't be because that allows you to score points against Jews in general, could it? Nah, that couldn't be right because that would mean your point is racism incarnate.
So what, who Netanyahu claims to speak for? Funny how people consider him a liar when he says anything other than that he speaks for all Jews. This claim, however, you give credence to. It couldn't be because that allows you to score points against Jews in general, could it? Nah, that couldn't be right because that would mean your point is racism incarnate.
2
So much hatred and violence, I'm sick to my stomach. I'm convinced that there will never be peaceful coexistence between Palestinians & Jews.
Where are the voices of moderation. Certainly Netanyahu added fuel to the fire!
Where are the voices of moderation. Certainly Netanyahu added fuel to the fire!
10
No excuses this time.
8
I strongly recommend the graphic novel, Palestine by Joe Sacco--which includes moving essay by the late Edward Said.
7
It is past time for peace in the Middle East.
2
Unfortunately, those calling the shots aren't the least bit interested in peace.
3
Calling for a "day of rage"? Explain how that solves anything, because although the act was outrageous, rebutting with a day dedicated to wreaking havoc and inciting more violence seems counterproductive and fruitless. If anything it leads to more damage, deaths and pain, which never rectifies loss. Nor does a day comprised of chaotic clashes lead to “peaceful” debates.
2
The Palestinians have no other method left to them. Nobody listens to the peaceful Palestinian organisations. And our congress welcomed the butcher of Sabra and Shatila with a standing ovation. What would you do?
11
If your going to state something from history at least tell the truth, Lebanese Christian political party and militia,the Phalangists committed the acts at Sabra and Shatila not Israel.
1
One might ask not what i would do, but rather ask what Jesus would do.
When they find the perpetrators will they bulldoze their houses and those of their families? I'm betting not. Anyone want to make me a rich man by taking me up on my bet?
11
I grieve for the family who can never recover.
Mothers children and fathers suffer
mindless male cowards
kneel to gods of madness and violence.
There is no vengeance.
There is no forgiveness
Mothers children and fathers suffer
mindless male cowards
kneel to gods of madness and violence.
There is no vengeance.
There is no forgiveness
3
To insert a little Christian ideal into the consideration of this ongoing hoffific, seemingly endless, conflict: "Blessed are the peace makers for they shall inherit the earth". The U.S. should totally withdraw from the situation and let the parties "have at it" - if they must -and just maybe, indigenous leaders will emerge from their ashes and provide a permanent, peaceful solution.
3
Whether this is called arson or terrorism, or the perpetrators were religious zealots or just plain thugs are all secondary considerations to the simple fact that occurrences like this are the expected outcome of six decades of illegal occupation of other peoples' land, during which rcist and intolerant attitudes are allowed, even encouraged, to fester and harden. When that simple fact is recognized and rectified there can be peace in the region.
13
But if none other then God himself, decreed exclusive land ownership rights to one people over all others then those who claim rights directly opposed to 'gods will' should be removed 'by any means necessary' !
O.K. Maybe some are suspicious of the idea that God directly communicated only with the benefactors ( we now call prophets) and not all potential adversaries. Some might even say "why would any deity plant this seed of division and not understand that a seething hatred that would resonate through the ages?"; and some might even doubt the exhistance of the deity itself. However, for some deep religious believers, especially throughout the Middle East, there is little conflict between the absolutism of 'gods words' and doing or supporting (even indirectly) the consequences of such dictum and belief.
O.K. Maybe some are suspicious of the idea that God directly communicated only with the benefactors ( we now call prophets) and not all potential adversaries. Some might even say "why would any deity plant this seed of division and not understand that a seething hatred that would resonate through the ages?"; and some might even doubt the exhistance of the deity itself. However, for some deep religious believers, especially throughout the Middle East, there is little conflict between the absolutism of 'gods words' and doing or supporting (even indirectly) the consequences of such dictum and belief.
1
Although Netanyahu has vowed to bring the perpetrators to justice, it may just be lip service, because his cabinet and the Knesset are populated by Ultranationalists and far-rightists, who embrace the Settlers' ambition.
It's just a matter of time before the third Intifada breaks out in Gaza and the West Bank.
It's just a matter of time before the third Intifada breaks out in Gaza and the West Bank.
21
They must know that. They're vicious, not stupid.
Perhaps that is what they want. It might be the excuse they mean to use for their ambitions to do even worse to the Palestinians.
Perhaps that is what they want. It might be the excuse they mean to use for their ambitions to do even worse to the Palestinians.
19
Mark,
I don't think they are stupid or vicious. They're calculating. They know that the US isn't going to do anything so they are willing to put up with the negative publicity to complete their conquest of Palestine.
I don't think they are stupid or vicious. They're calculating. They know that the US isn't going to do anything so they are willing to put up with the negative publicity to complete their conquest of Palestine.
12
Ed -- I agree with everything you, but such calculation does not preclude vicious, it uses it.
4
Extremists, Muslim or Jew, have no respect for the rights of others and their behavior can not be tolerated. This cowardly firebombing by Jewish extremists in the West Bank is strikingly similar to the firebombing by Jewish extremists in New Square, NY in 2011. I that case, these religious zealots targeted Aron Rottenberg, one of their own, merely because he didn't want to pray at the head rabbi's synagogue. I see little difference between these Jews and ISIS Muslims; Sharia vs Haredi law. There is no place in our society for either
20
Will all the Republican candidates who have been screaming about President Obama giving in to Iranian terrorism at least have the decency to call this act terrorism? Or will they first have to check in with Sheldon Adelson for talking points and marching orders?
29
Every single one of them, ESPECIALLY Senators Cruz and Rubio, should be charged with conspiracy to commit treason!
2
Who ever did this must be prosecuted for murder and more, however the only evidence of responsibility so far is graffiti nearby in Hebrew. Anyone could write on a wall.
1
I used to feel sorry for the Jews. Not anymore. I think the only country that puts up and finances them is the United States, our government, the congress and senate and the president, and of course the war machine manufacturers, the ones that build all of the jets and other weapons they make for the Jews to kill children and people in Palestine. The United States and it's corporations will do almost anything for the money.
24
When arsonists turn a little baby into a "lump of coal" (as stated by the person who retrieved the body) is it a "death" or is it "murder" ?
12
The real Israeli terrorism is that the settlers can keep destroying and stealing Palestinian property without facing judicial consequences. Attacks like the one mentioned in the article are just the logical consequence of the sense of entitlement and invulnerability among the settlers that is the result.
21
The 'Palestinians' have nothing to steal. They are squatters on Israeli land.
1
First, the 'suspected' arsonists are Israeli, not Jewish; it is past time to begin separating the two terms. Second, the 'arsonists' are much better described as what they are - terrorists.
11
Are you seriously suggesting that the arsonists were Israeli Bedouins or perhaps Palestinian citizens of Israel? The attackers were Jewish settlers who assert that all of Greater Israel belongs to the Jews and to no one else. Semantic shuffling should not be used to blur the salient facts.
4
Hal,
You made an important point. By saying they are Jewish just means that they are of a religion that is one among many. But, by noting that they are Israeli, we see that they are in a land that is not their own.
You made an important point. By saying they are Jewish just means that they are of a religion that is one among many. But, by noting that they are Israeli, we see that they are in a land that is not their own.
4
None of us is humans are immune to extremism. We look in hooro at what is happening all around us and convince ourselves that we would never do such a thing (whatever that is), and of course most of us wouldn't. But there is an epidemic of fear and distrust among us. We must, each of us, look into ourselves, our families and our communities to do the difficult work of speaking and treating each other with loving kindness.
3
If you had this described without names it would be a story of a strong country occupying a week one. Displacing it's people from their land and property to use for themselves. Not allowing access to food, medicine and basic needs. Not given equal protection under the law or a say in the government. The US would probably call for sanctions and cut off aid. When we put in the name Israel we instead give them money and technology to continue, why is that?
24
Because it is a tiny country surrounded by enemies outside the country and terrorists within. The so called 'Palestinians' are no such thing, and deserve nothing except to be evicted to whichever Arab country will take them.
1
It is very disingenuous of the Israeli government to distance itself from this horrific atrocity. The rabid settlers are in the West Bank as a result of official Israeli policy to expropriate the land from the native Palestinians. The settler movement would not exist apart from the Israeli State and it forms a key voting bloc for the Likud. Given these facts, the Israeli State is complicit in these horrific ongoing settler atrocities as are American taxpayers who continue to lavishly and uncritically underwrite such Israeli policies.
21
These are the militant ultra-orthodox. The same group who exempt their sons and daughters from compulsory IDF service and still find it befitting to chastise the military for not serving enough "Kosher" meals to the service members.
8
This is not Judaism. This is insanity and it must be stopped. Those responsible for these vicious acts of terrorism against a child must be brought to justice.
2
I find it interesting that you call the arsonist attackers 'terrorists' or 'extremists', as though they were some isolated individuals the police couldn't trace.
They were in fact Israeli activist settlers, who have steadily been taking more and more Palestinian land and burning/destroying Palestinian homes while they grab the land.
The Israeli government may pay lip-service to the condemnation of this heinous act, but as we know, they are the ones who have been promoting more and more illegal settlements and have been turning a blind eye to the many barbarous acts that have results from this flawed policy. Rarely if ever are any settlers held accountable for these on-going terrorist acts.
They were in fact Israeli activist settlers, who have steadily been taking more and more Palestinian land and burning/destroying Palestinian homes while they grab the land.
The Israeli government may pay lip-service to the condemnation of this heinous act, but as we know, they are the ones who have been promoting more and more illegal settlements and have been turning a blind eye to the many barbarous acts that have results from this flawed policy. Rarely if ever are any settlers held accountable for these on-going terrorist acts.
16
All religion is evil. The only "them" and "us" should be evil vs good, strife vs peace.
3
If´s sad what happened to this Child in Palestine the perpetrators of this terrorist act shall be punished with firm justice Peace in Palestine and Israel
Once again I need help in understanding why my country, the US, stands so unquestioningly behind this little rogue country that has illegally occupied the land of others for decades, has defied UN resolutions & has continued to build settlements on these lands & had allowed a group of religious extremists to dominate its domestic & international policies. Furthermore the leaders of this little belligerent country never miss a chance to belittle our President in spite of the fact that it has been by far the largest recipient of our foreign aid over the last 50 years.
Then I really need help in understanding how it, a major nuclear power with at least 200 atomic bombs, none of which are declared nor subject to any international inspection, can be such a fierce opponent of the Iran nuclear limitation agreement.
Aha, I have an idea, maybe some of the skilful lobbyists from the AIPAC can make me understand
Then I really need help in understanding how it, a major nuclear power with at least 200 atomic bombs, none of which are declared nor subject to any international inspection, can be such a fierce opponent of the Iran nuclear limitation agreement.
Aha, I have an idea, maybe some of the skilful lobbyists from the AIPAC can make me understand
27
I fear that these settlers and ultra-orthodox Jews will destroy what Israel was meant to be. They seem to be a real problem for Israel going forward. The displacement of the Palestinians from areas where they have lived for generations is simply wrong. I get that that may have been necessary for the establishment of Israel in the first place, but to grab more and more land from the Palestinians just isn't morally right. Americans need to help stop this asap.
19
The Balfour Declaration is quite clear about NOT displacing Palestinians to create a Jewish state .
2
To the Palestinian people:
I am an American Jew and would like to apologize to you for the heinous act committed by these Jewish terrorists.
I'm happy to say that my son, an Orthodox Jew, works actively for Palestinian rights, both here in the United States and in Israel when he can get there. He has numerous contacts in the West Bank and this summer visited refugee families who have lived in tents for 30+ years.
Lest any fellow Jews call me a self-hating Jew, let me say that - - after centuries of persecution - - I heartily support the need for a Jewish homeland. But we Jews, of all people, should know not to do to others what was done to us.
I am an American Jew and would like to apologize to you for the heinous act committed by these Jewish terrorists.
I'm happy to say that my son, an Orthodox Jew, works actively for Palestinian rights, both here in the United States and in Israel when he can get there. He has numerous contacts in the West Bank and this summer visited refugee families who have lived in tents for 30+ years.
Lest any fellow Jews call me a self-hating Jew, let me say that - - after centuries of persecution - - I heartily support the need for a Jewish homeland. But we Jews, of all people, should know not to do to others what was done to us.
33
Great and thoughtful post Pam and may God bless and protect your son. You are not responsible for this.
2
Your comment brought tears of appreciation to my eyes. Bravo.
I trust the poster Phillip will read your post & learn. May God bless you.
I trust the poster Phillip will read your post & learn. May God bless you.
1
Please . . . just stop the hate.
4
It is reassuring to see Israelis, especially the Prime Minister, calling a terrorist act by its rightful name, TERRORISM.
Now let us hope they back up their words with appropriate deeds.
Now let us hope they back up their words with appropriate deeds.
10
Let it be made clear very clear that these people, who did this act do not represent Judaism. This attack does not represent Jews. Judaism is clear "Thou shall not kill".
Only about 10-15 percent of Jews in Israel are observant to the laws of Judaism. In condemning this act, let us not connect religion to this horrible incident.
Only about 10-15 percent of Jews in Israel are observant to the laws of Judaism. In condemning this act, let us not connect religion to this horrible incident.
4
There is a way to peace.
Always and forever.
We only have to desire it strongly enough to act.
And show courage and tap something good we all possess inside.
It is possible.
Always and forever.
We only have to desire it strongly enough to act.
And show courage and tap something good we all possess inside.
It is possible.
6
Israel is surrounded by enemies. Perhaps that is why It has lost its way.
Gaza is a large open air prison. wherein Israel controls every facet of life, e.g. Identity cards, travel, the flow of food, water, health care, building materials, etc. It blows up houses to set an example. It steals land from the helpless who have no recourse. It condones the terrorism of fanatical "settlers"
It has become rigid bigoted theocracy that pretends to be democratic. (democracy is reserved for the "select")
It needs to look in the mirror, it was once a symbol of freedom from oppression and bigotry, and now it embraces it.
Gaza is a large open air prison. wherein Israel controls every facet of life, e.g. Identity cards, travel, the flow of food, water, health care, building materials, etc. It blows up houses to set an example. It steals land from the helpless who have no recourse. It condones the terrorism of fanatical "settlers"
It has become rigid bigoted theocracy that pretends to be democratic. (democracy is reserved for the "select")
It needs to look in the mirror, it was once a symbol of freedom from oppression and bigotry, and now it embraces it.
42
I'm deeply ashamed my taxes support these so-called "arsonist" thugs.
42
These events demonstrate that an eventual Palestinian state cannot be disarmed.
It will need the means to protect itself and its people.
It will need the means to protect itself and its people.
35
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. It is heartening that Netanyahu visited the attacked family, but Mr. Abbas' comment that "steps beyond words also have to be taken" is frightening. I generally support the Palestinians, as I believe Israel has been cruel and unjust towards them, but the violence needs to end on both sides.
24
Please, don't even infer they are comparable. It's sickening. One group is multiplying, while the other is being decimated.
15
Nice try. Abbas is talking about Israeli government taking steps.
Price Tag attacks have been going on for over a decade. Nobody is ever caught or brought to justice.
Price Tag attacks have been going on for over a decade. Nobody is ever caught or brought to justice.
14
???? Why is Mr.Abbas comment "frightening". Netanyahu has actively encouraged the righ wing settlers who commited this horrible crime so the fact that he visited the family hardly balances his and his governments active support of the settlers. The article itself pointed out that there have many attacks in Palestinian villages and few arrests. Of course "steps beyond words also have to be taken" I have no idea why you find that a frightening statement.
8
Israel would impose collective punishment on the Palestinian village of a Palestinian who did this to a Jewish baby. Will Israel impose equal punishment on the illegal settlement that is home to the Jewish terrorists?
I won't hold my breath.
I won't hold my breath.
66
As an elderly Jewish woman I am ashamed that fellow jews act in ways antithetical to the heart of Judaism, as I know it and love it. May the perpetrators of this horror be caught and punished. May there be some solution to the pain in the region which does not involve any more killing. That simple.
20
This is a disgracefull crime, predictable and part and parcel of Israeli policy of occupation, settlement and oppression. It is high time that the Israeli Government and those who support it here in the US be held accountable. This is particularly true for American Jews, who may disagree broadly with Israeli behavior but allow groups who claim to represent them to pressure our Government to provide the resources and diplomatic cover Israel needs to act with impunity.
50
Oh please give it a rest. This was a crime and will be prosecuted as such. No streets will be named after the perpetrator and no family will receive payment for the deed.
4
I always believed the Israeli government did not allow extremist groups to function; to the best of their ability these groups were prevented from operating. I've realized over the past few years how that is no longer case. From allowing the Hebron "settlers" to remain in place, protected by the IDF, putting those soldiers at risk, we come to an attack like this. It always seems to take something as horrific as this, the immolation of a child, rather than destruction of churches, to galvanize opinion. I am horrified. We are supposed to be different. Many will say this is an extremist fringe, as opposed to the greater numbers of Palestinian in the extremist fringe - irrelevant! Should be wait for the tipping point, when our extremist numbers match?
58
Bibi Netanyahu has created and nurtured these monsters and will continue to do so for as long as he's in power. I for one do not want American security or American military lives jeopardized for HIS brand of extremism! He and his ruling party couldn't CARE less about American lives. He proved that when he led Americans to fight and die in Iraq FOR NO REASON whatsoever. Never again!
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/iran-iraq-war-n...
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/iran-iraq-war-n...
2
"Witnesses and officials are calling this terrorism based on graffiti."
It's murder and isn't that enough? Why are officials speaking out at all at this point. Let the investigation go where it will go. Terrorism has become a political crime and that means politics not criminal justice will probably get it wrong.
Terrorist don't get trials, they don't get justice they rot in jails based on politics and are celebrated as heroes based on what side of the politics you're on. It's time to stop calling murder terrorism.
It's murder and isn't that enough? Why are officials speaking out at all at this point. Let the investigation go where it will go. Terrorism has become a political crime and that means politics not criminal justice will probably get it wrong.
Terrorist don't get trials, they don't get justice they rot in jails based on politics and are celebrated as heroes based on what side of the politics you're on. It's time to stop calling murder terrorism.
7
Politicians in Israel, Palestine, and America can say, 'This is a terrible act. We do not do such things. This is not our way.' But the truth is it is our way.
We routinely employ weapons of mass violence against civilians to accomplish our ends. Collateral casualties or inevitable facts, either way, war is bad for civilians.
We routinely employ weapons of mass violence against civilians to accomplish our ends. Collateral casualties or inevitable facts, either way, war is bad for civilians.
20
When shot at by Palestinians, Israeli soldiers have a right to shoot back.
9
They only have rocks for the most part not 155 mm WP artillery shells fired into civilian enclaves.
25
A. Stanton this family were asleep in their beds not shooting anyone. And when someone turfs a Palestinian off Palestinian land they have the right to defend their land (according to international law and religious laws).
3
Appears to be the work of Jewish extremists. Horrific, regardless of who are responsible. But I disagree with Erekat who blames "a culture of hate funded and incentivized by the Israeli govt." If only he was honest enough to say that about decades of PA responsible incitement against Jews. Tragically, years of hatred and terrorism against Jews bears some ugly, reciprocal fruit. It could not remain one sided. And that his little to do with the settlements, but with the educational policies in Palestinian schools that call ALL of Israel illegal settlements.
14
Thank you Rosalie. At least, a first reasonably based word. It's a relief. I can still be a believer of human kind.
1
There is an intensive hunt now taking place for the extremists. They will be found and prosecuted for murder. Israel, unlike the Arab societies, is founded on the principle of law. Criminals, whether Arab or Israeli, are denounced, hunted down, arrested, and tried.
The difference between Israel and the surrounding Arabs, be it Hamas, Hezbullah, and even the PA, is that those Arabs AIM for Israeli civilians, and celebrate their murder. In the much rarer incidents involving Jewish extremists, like this arson which killed the child, you can see Israeli reaction in the quote above by PM Netanyahu: “We are shocked by it, we condemn it fully, the entire Israeli government and all the citizens of Israel. We decry it as a terrorist crime. Terrorism is terrorism. We need to fight it every place it comes from. We will capture these murderers. We will use all the tools at our disposal to bring them to justice and to see justice served to them.”"
Now when have you ever heard Palestinian leadership condemning attacks on Jews?
The perpetrators will eventually be found and punished for murder.
And their lies the enormous difference between the morality between Israel, where murder is denounced, and the Arabs, where murderers are given heroic status.
The difference between Israel and the surrounding Arabs, be it Hamas, Hezbullah, and even the PA, is that those Arabs AIM for Israeli civilians, and celebrate their murder. In the much rarer incidents involving Jewish extremists, like this arson which killed the child, you can see Israeli reaction in the quote above by PM Netanyahu: “We are shocked by it, we condemn it fully, the entire Israeli government and all the citizens of Israel. We decry it as a terrorist crime. Terrorism is terrorism. We need to fight it every place it comes from. We will capture these murderers. We will use all the tools at our disposal to bring them to justice and to see justice served to them.”"
Now when have you ever heard Palestinian leadership condemning attacks on Jews?
The perpetrators will eventually be found and punished for murder.
And their lies the enormous difference between the morality between Israel, where murder is denounced, and the Arabs, where murderers are given heroic status.
16
Nope. In Isreal if you are suspected not proven to be (fil in the black) Arab or Palestinian, you house and the familys' houses will be bulldosed. Not so much for these Jewish terrorists
19
You have to deal with the underlying 'cause' .. the settlements.
"Tragically, years of hatred and terrorism against bears some ugly reciprocal fruit."
"Tragically, years of hatred and terrorism against bears some ugly reciprocal fruit."
12
Edward Lipton says: "Israel, unlike the Arab societies, is founded on the principle of law." So how come Israeli women can't unilaterally divorce, but men can? Some rule of law you have there.
32
When will the grownups on both sides finally go into a room and stay until this madness is resolved. One side throws a rock the other side throws it back. One side sends a missile the other side sends a bomb. Sounds like children having a fit because they can't have their way. Its past time to move on. People are dying and the beat goes on. Both sides need to realize you have to give something to get something. The people stirring the pot seldom are the ones who suffer. The ones who suffer on both sides are the innocents. Time for some adults to say enough is enough! The folks on both sides who feed on fighting are winning.
8
You speak as if Israel committed this horrible deed. It was committed by a criminal who will be tried and punished. It is not state sponsored nor will it be celebrated and commemorated. These acts are uniformly villified by Jews all over the world.
Has it really come to this?-- An eye for an eye. Even when that 'eye' belongs to a toddler? In any sane world, the answer would be a resounding NO. And when justification for this kind of reprehensible act can be found, and when a nation decides that its fate lies in the death of a small child, any child, then woe be unto it.
18
I agree that both sides have committed atrocities. Normally, one's reaction would be to sympathize with the innocent victims on both sides, while stating "a plague on both their houses" for the respective activists/terrorists on both sides. Yes, that's what I'd state if there were some rough symmetry in the situation, i.e. either no settlements by either side, or for every Israeli-only settlement on the West Bank, there'd be a Palestinian-only settlement within Israel behind the green line, with random acts of terror by both sides.
But, of course, the situation is completely asymmetric. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the origin of the I/P conflict and how it has been fought, the Israelis are deluding themselves to doubt that world opinion will always, and rightly so, be on the side of the dispossessed whose land was taken for the implantation of settlements and not on the side of those doing the dispossession. They can say "who cares", but all that saying that has done and will continue to do is antagonize, to the point of outright hostility, those predisposed to wish Israel well.
But, of course, the situation is completely asymmetric. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the origin of the I/P conflict and how it has been fought, the Israelis are deluding themselves to doubt that world opinion will always, and rightly so, be on the side of the dispossessed whose land was taken for the implantation of settlements and not on the side of those doing the dispossession. They can say "who cares", but all that saying that has done and will continue to do is antagonize, to the point of outright hostility, those predisposed to wish Israel well.
76
These acts of terror remind me of the singular act of terror that began the long decline in the prospect for sanity or peace on the part of strong Israeli leaders -- the assassination of Rabin by another right wing Israeli religious zealot.
23
For those of you who are using this tragedy as an excuse to spout anti-Zionist propaganda, I have a question for you. When Palestinians murder innocent Israelis, as has been the case on scores of occasions, how many of you have written a comment to the Times condemning such acts?
Netanyahu called this unspeakable act "terrorism" and he is right to have characterize it as such. How many of you in the pro-Palestinian minion have criticized Palestinian perpetrators as "terrorists?"
One thing is certain. The Israelis would never lionize those culpable of such savagery nor will they name a street or square after them, unlike the Palestinian leadership which has done so on numerous occasions to pay homage to such butchery...
Netanyahu called this unspeakable act "terrorism" and he is right to have characterize it as such. How many of you in the pro-Palestinian minion have criticized Palestinian perpetrators as "terrorists?"
One thing is certain. The Israelis would never lionize those culpable of such savagery nor will they name a street or square after them, unlike the Palestinian leadership which has done so on numerous occasions to pay homage to such butchery...
23
Among other things, you might want to look up the topics: Baruch Goldstein, Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre.
17
and that was terroristic and deplored as well
3
the Israeli government and scores of rabbis condemned baruch Goldstein. There are no public squares or street venerating him or public celebrations of any sorts celebrating his life. Can you say the same about Palestinians? Teams named after Rabbi Glick’s shooter and terrorists Abu Jihad, Khaled Nazzal and Abu Ali Mustafa participate in Palestinian football championship errorists responsible for the murders of more than 150 people. Recently, Fatah and the PLO organized a tournament named after two terrorists who planned and carried out some of the most lethal terror attacks in Israel's history: “The Martyr Raed Al-Karmi and Martyr Dalal Mughrabi Tournament.” Raed Al-Karmi was responsible for the murder of 9 Israelis from 2001-2002 and Dalal Mughrabi led the killing of 37 in 1978.
4
So, Gilad Erdan, minister of internal security, said Friday that he was giving the Duma case “top priority” and that the suspects “should end their lives behind bars.”
Well that would be a first. Jewish terrorists who murdered Palestinians to spend the rest of their lives behind bars? Extremely dubious, based on Israel's track record.
As the Israeli organization B'Tselem said today, such attacks are to be expected, "due to the authorities' policy to avoid enforcing the law on Israelis who harm Palestinians and their property. This policy creates impunity for hate crimes, and encourages assailants to continue, leading to this morning's horrific result."
Well that would be a first. Jewish terrorists who murdered Palestinians to spend the rest of their lives behind bars? Extremely dubious, based on Israel's track record.
As the Israeli organization B'Tselem said today, such attacks are to be expected, "due to the authorities' policy to avoid enforcing the law on Israelis who harm Palestinians and their property. This policy creates impunity for hate crimes, and encourages assailants to continue, leading to this morning's horrific result."
44
Mr. Magal says about the crime that Jews don't act this way. Was that true in the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946, the killing of the villagers of Deir Yassin in 1948, the assassination of the UN mediator,Count Folke Bernadette in 1949, the murder of Rudolf Kastner in the 50s, the bombing of the USS Liberty in June, 1967, the killing of civilians in the Sabra and Shatilla camps in 1982, the assassination of Yitzak Rabin, the reckless killing of Rachel Corrie, and the indiscriminate slaughter of 2,400 civilians in Gaza just a year ago.
I would like to believe Mr Magal, but I'm an empiricist and the evidence shows that Jews do act that way--alot.
I would like to believe Mr Magal, but I'm an empiricist and the evidence shows that Jews do act that way--alot.
47
No empiricist would be mixing apples, oranges and outright falsehoods and pretend they deal with evidence. The King David Hotel was used as the headquarters of the Mandate's military and the UK had been given advance warning to evacuate, a warning that was ignored. The Deir Yassin "massacre" was an invention of the Arab military who tried to use it to embolden their soldiers to attack Jews rather than continue to retreat. It had the opposite effect in both Arab civilians and soldiers, a military "own goal" if you will. Not even the Arab survivors of the confrontation of Deir Yassin, some of whose testimonies is on YouTube, claimed it was a massacre of innocent civilians.
The assassinations of Count Bernadotte was evidently a political act. That of Kastner was a result of his involvement with the Judenrat during the Holocaust. The USS Liberty canard has been debunked by the release of the actual Israeli pilot radio tapes which establish beyond a doubt that they thought they were attacking an Egyptian ship and broke off the attack immediately upon recognizing it to be a U.S. vessel, which is why it wasn't sunk. The U.S. knew this in 1967 which is why Israel paid reparations to the victims of its mistake. The recklessness in Rachel Corrie's death, as established at trial, was her use by ISM as innocent canon fodder. As to the 2,400 dead in Gaza, aside from half being combatants, the bulk of the rest died as a direct result of Hamas tactics - abetted by sympathizer such as you.
The assassinations of Count Bernadotte was evidently a political act. That of Kastner was a result of his involvement with the Judenrat during the Holocaust. The USS Liberty canard has been debunked by the release of the actual Israeli pilot radio tapes which establish beyond a doubt that they thought they were attacking an Egyptian ship and broke off the attack immediately upon recognizing it to be a U.S. vessel, which is why it wasn't sunk. The U.S. knew this in 1967 which is why Israel paid reparations to the victims of its mistake. The recklessness in Rachel Corrie's death, as established at trial, was her use by ISM as innocent canon fodder. As to the 2,400 dead in Gaza, aside from half being combatants, the bulk of the rest died as a direct result of Hamas tactics - abetted by sympathizer such as you.
9
Sabra and Shatilla was a revenge attack by Lebanese Christians against Palestinian Muslims. It was not committed by "Jews" but an Israeli commission nevertheless found Sharon and others indirectly culpable for not anticipating the revenge attack and taking steps to prevent it.
Rabin was, of course, killed by an Israeli fanatic, even though the most Rabin ever sought for Palestinian Arabs was a form of autonomy and not statehood as is commonly though incorrectly believed. In fact, Prime Minister Netanyahu has offered the PA far more than Rabin ever dreamed of doing, but since the Palestinian Arabs' dream is to replace Israel, not live side by side in peace, it's no wonder that the process is frozen.
Rabin was, of course, killed by an Israeli fanatic, even though the most Rabin ever sought for Palestinian Arabs was a form of autonomy and not statehood as is commonly though incorrectly believed. In fact, Prime Minister Netanyahu has offered the PA far more than Rabin ever dreamed of doing, but since the Palestinian Arabs' dream is to replace Israel, not live side by side in peace, it's no wonder that the process is frozen.
6
Mr. Charlie,
You seem to be justifying murder (Count Bernadette) because it was "evidently a political act". The murder of prime minister Rabin was also a political act, probably the most fateful in Israel's history. Are you also justifying the murder of 91 British, Jewish, and Palestinian civil servants in the bombing of the King David Hotel, because the British authorities didn't believe that Jewish forces would actually carry it out. Your assertions about what happened at Deir Yassin, the USS Liberty, and the Gaza campaign are based on single sources. Their is plenty of evidence in books and articles countering them. The attack on the USS Liberty, which resulted in the death of over 100 American sailors, was hush up by the Johnson Administration. I hope you will join me and others in calling for an impartial tribunal to fully investigate the incident. Otherwise, it will remain contested for ever.
You seem to be justifying murder (Count Bernadette) because it was "evidently a political act". The murder of prime minister Rabin was also a political act, probably the most fateful in Israel's history. Are you also justifying the murder of 91 British, Jewish, and Palestinian civil servants in the bombing of the King David Hotel, because the British authorities didn't believe that Jewish forces would actually carry it out. Your assertions about what happened at Deir Yassin, the USS Liberty, and the Gaza campaign are based on single sources. Their is plenty of evidence in books and articles countering them. The attack on the USS Liberty, which resulted in the death of over 100 American sailors, was hush up by the Johnson Administration. I hope you will join me and others in calling for an impartial tribunal to fully investigate the incident. Otherwise, it will remain contested for ever.
17
I can't be the only one who is getting fed up with murder in the name of god. To me, that is what religion -- every single religion -- has devolved to and possibly has always been. "Let's hold the promise of a wrathful omniscient being and/or eternal life over their heads and these people will kill anyone we ask them to!" And then it's just a hop, skip and a jump to working them up into a theocratic frenzy, throw in some herd mentality and you've got yourself a war. God must be so happy.
17
Religion, everyone's religion, is the root of all the evil in this world.
The perpetrators of this crime will be found, tried and punished by the Israeli legal system. This same crime committed by Palestinians is celebrated and the "heroes" paraded through the streets filled with cheering crowds.
13
Jewish victims of terror use American courts to sue individuals, organizations AND countries for financial support of terror and win.
Perhaps it's time for Palestinian victims of terror to sue US & Israeli governments, and US Organizations for financing settlements that have led to terror by settlers and IDF against Palestinians in Palestinian territories.
(NYT, there is NOTHING that violates your terms in the above post!).
Perhaps it's time for Palestinian victims of terror to sue US & Israeli governments, and US Organizations for financing settlements that have led to terror by settlers and IDF against Palestinians in Palestinian territories.
(NYT, there is NOTHING that violates your terms in the above post!).
31
Any criticism of Israel, Bibi or Judaisim in general makes the Times very nervous for some reason. You'll never find the strong language that was permitted in comments from, for example, Christian radicals who were permitted to publish some quite vile and hateful anti-homosexual propaganda during the same-sex marriage debate, yet if one would dare to criticise Israel...
20
The Jewish people & their cousins, the Arab/Persian people of the Middle East, have contributed so much to civilization over millennia; to see them continually brutalizing each other is such a tragic waste. I know it's easy for me to moralize being safe in America, but it seems to me there's only one solution in the end to these problems. We must ALL realize, there is only one race, the Human race; there is only one religion, Humanism. There is only one goal, a better life for ALL, as much as possible. Only reason & empathic compassion will get us there, not patriotism, or conflicting dogmatic religious faiths or macho courage or vengeance.
8
Jews, Christians and Muslims all share the belief in original sin and the rule of Satan as ruler of this world until the day of judgement. The problem is that the members of each group believe that they and only they are God's beloved children, and that the members of the other two groups are de facto followers of Satan. That means that these three religions, each based on hatred and violence, can never stop fighting each other...until all members of all groups are dead.
We see, especially in the NYTimes description of this terrible act, how very political the word 'terrorism' has become. Much of the discussion seems to be about what to call it, instead of focusing on the policies that brought this situation about. Certainly, the perpetrators should be captured and punished, but that should be only a small part of the process. Just as American and British action in the Middle East has done little other than strengthen the allure of extremism, the same can be said of the Israelis. As long as injustice and self-interest trump human rights, we should expect continued blood letting.
13
Sad to see the tragic loss of life, though I can't help to think the New York Times--and other critics of Israel--should take note that the Israelis are pursuing a thorough investigation (where if the situation were reversed, these perpetrators would be praised as "freedom fighters--especially in your paper). At the very least, the New York Times would be listing every excuse for why the "downtrodden" Palestinians had a right to kill Jews. It's also rather depressing that Hamas calls for a "Day of Rage." Where's the "rage" by Palestinians over the lot in life their fellow Arab brethren and leadership has condemned them to . . . despite numerous efforts by Israel to make peace and break the cycle of violence.
10
Settlers are generously subsidized by the Israeli government. Government grants of up to NIS 97,000 (approximately $25,000) are available to prospective home buyers in the settlement communities. Other benefits include preferential mortgage terms and subsidized utilities.
Israel controls all water resources in the West Bank and decides how much water is provided to Palestinians. In the West Bank approximately 313,000 Palestinians are not connected to any water network and are at high risk of water scarcity. An additional 50,000 Palestinians live on less than 20 liters a day.
In terms of business, Israel has established industrial areas in or near settlements in the West Bank. The building of these areas has been heavily subsidized by the government. Leasing fees for land in these areas is heavily subsidized and businesses are given preferential access to grants and income tax breaks.
What can you do?
Support boycott and divestment campaigns!
The US has taken NO STEPS to pressure Israel to stop building and expanding settlements. Take action by encouraging your representatives to support policies that (a) enforce a labeling system for items produced in or by Israeli settlements to distinguish settlement products from goods produced within Israel’s pre-1967 borders and (b) withhold all government assistance to Israel until the Israeli government halts all settlement activities in the West Bank including East Jerusalem.
Israel controls all water resources in the West Bank and decides how much water is provided to Palestinians. In the West Bank approximately 313,000 Palestinians are not connected to any water network and are at high risk of water scarcity. An additional 50,000 Palestinians live on less than 20 liters a day.
In terms of business, Israel has established industrial areas in or near settlements in the West Bank. The building of these areas has been heavily subsidized by the government. Leasing fees for land in these areas is heavily subsidized and businesses are given preferential access to grants and income tax breaks.
What can you do?
Support boycott and divestment campaigns!
The US has taken NO STEPS to pressure Israel to stop building and expanding settlements. Take action by encouraging your representatives to support policies that (a) enforce a labeling system for items produced in or by Israeli settlements to distinguish settlement products from goods produced within Israel’s pre-1967 borders and (b) withhold all government assistance to Israel until the Israeli government halts all settlement activities in the West Bank including East Jerusalem.
34
One of the Israeli government's stated reasons for not establishing a Palestinian state to date is violence against it's Israeli citizens by Palestinian extremists. Using this rationale, one could say that the state of Israel should not exist because the Palestinians are not able to defend themselves against right wing radicalized Israeli Jews.
22
This savage attack was rightly called an act of terrorism by the IDF, Netanyhahu and virtually all of Israeli society.
Now compare and contract the average Israeli's reaction to this incident with the Palestinians reactions after they murder Jewish civilians, including children.
There is no moral equivalency whatsoever between Israelis and Palestinians.
When's the last time you heard Palestinian officials denounce their own murderers as "terrorists" or arrest/prosecute even one of their own who murdered Jews?
In reality, if the roles were reversed here, Palestinians would be naming roads and schools in the perpetrators' names.
Amazing how many people are generalizing all Israelis by the actions of a few deranged settlers especially considering these are the same people who huff and puff when people generalize all Palestinians or even Muslims.
Now compare and contract the average Israeli's reaction to this incident with the Palestinians reactions after they murder Jewish civilians, including children.
There is no moral equivalency whatsoever between Israelis and Palestinians.
When's the last time you heard Palestinian officials denounce their own murderers as "terrorists" or arrest/prosecute even one of their own who murdered Jews?
In reality, if the roles were reversed here, Palestinians would be naming roads and schools in the perpetrators' names.
Amazing how many people are generalizing all Israelis by the actions of a few deranged settlers especially considering these are the same people who huff and puff when people generalize all Palestinians or even Muslims.
13
There is no moral equivalency whatsoever between Israelis and Palestinians - Correct - Israel is an occupying force in the West Bank which is transferring settlers (which committed the crime) to displace the native population the Palestinians.
When's the last time you heard Palestinian officials denounce their own murderers as "terrorists" or arrest/prosecute even one of their own who murdered Jews? - Apparently very recently -https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/palestinian-president-a...
In reality, if the roles were reversed here, Palestinians would be naming roads and schools in the perpetrators' names. - All Palestinian villages in a radius of 30 km would be under curfew and all males ages 16-45 would be detained for questioning (so far no one has been arrested for questioning)
Otherwise - excellent post.
When's the last time you heard Palestinian officials denounce their own murderers as "terrorists" or arrest/prosecute even one of their own who murdered Jews? - Apparently very recently -https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/palestinian-president-a...
In reality, if the roles were reversed here, Palestinians would be naming roads and schools in the perpetrators' names. - All Palestinian villages in a radius of 30 km would be under curfew and all males ages 16-45 would be detained for questioning (so far no one has been arrested for questioning)
Otherwise - excellent post.
8
Palestinians were attacking Israelis decades before they were occupying any "Palestinian" land. Unless, of course, like Pals themselves you erroneously label ALL the land in the region as being "Palestinian" when it was controlled by the Ottomans and other Arab nations for hundreds of years.
Where in that article does Abbas label the perpetrators as "terrorists" or where does it mention the suspects were arrested and prosecuted by Pals? Besides, Abbas and the PA doesn't represent Palestine. The Palestinians voted Hamas, a genocidal Islamist organization, into power. Can you show even one instance of them condemning, let alone punishing someone, for a single attack that murdered Jewish civilians?
Where in that article does Abbas label the perpetrators as "terrorists" or where does it mention the suspects were arrested and prosecuted by Pals? Besides, Abbas and the PA doesn't represent Palestine. The Palestinians voted Hamas, a genocidal Islamist organization, into power. Can you show even one instance of them condemning, let alone punishing someone, for a single attack that murdered Jewish civilians?
4
This cowardly arson and murder is the fruit of the climate of hate and supremacy the Israeli government has created and tolerated against the Palestinian people. It is unbearably hypocritical if Netanyahu condems this act when he does everything to alienate the Jewish and Palestinian communities from one another.
23
as a Jewish and Zionist I believe that - only international painful pressure (eg economic sanctions) would bring the government to end the occupation. A call to Israel's friends in the world - this is time for tough love, save this country from itself.
security could be achieved without the settlements.
security could be achieved without the settlements.
26
And being a self-professed Zionist what tough love will you administer to all the Palestinians who still believe all of Israel is an illegal settlement including Tel Aviv?
1
Will Israel demolish the homes of the "arsonists" the way the Israelis demolish the homes of Palestinians suspected of "terrorist" activities?
31
This terrorist act was allegedly committed as "revenge" for the Israeli govenment's dismantling of a few illegal settlements. Justice for this horrific murder should not be tearing down the homes of the perpetrators (assuming they are caught) but to dismantle ALL the illegal settlements in the West Banks instead of CONTINUING to build and support them as the current govenment does.
25
And In order to continue the occupation the US will continue to Give Israel 3 billion per year, and the PLO a miserly 500 million. Zionists keep on building. America keeps on subsidizing for israel´s terrorist, price tag. Throwing American taxpayers money in the wind. Time to dismantle and not to build
11
Terrible thing and Netanayahu was quick to condemn it for what it is: terrorism.
But I'm curious. Why is a Jew killing a Palestinian child front page news at the NYT, but Palestinians regularly killing Jews in Israel never appears here? Could the reason be that it is a rarity for a Jew to kill a Palestinian in a terror attack? But it is common and nearly weekly that a Palestinian attacks and/or kills a Jewish Israeli?
Has anyone ever heard the Palestinian leaders condemn attacks by Palestinians on Jewish women and children, civilians, as anything but heroic acts?
But I'm curious. Why is a Jew killing a Palestinian child front page news at the NYT, but Palestinians regularly killing Jews in Israel never appears here? Could the reason be that it is a rarity for a Jew to kill a Palestinian in a terror attack? But it is common and nearly weekly that a Palestinian attacks and/or kills a Jewish Israeli?
Has anyone ever heard the Palestinian leaders condemn attacks by Palestinians on Jewish women and children, civilians, as anything but heroic acts?
16
Thank you, Rocky. Most comments these days just reflexively react (hiding behind a keyboard) to the story that is fed to them by the media and have no idea what is actually going on in the region. I am not excusing every action by every Israeli, but as many have said, if Hamas put down their arms, there would be peace. But if Israel put down their arms, there would be no Israel. Yes, there are many innocent Palestinians who do not deserve to be in the middle of all of this. But their leaders want the destruction of Israel. How is Israel supposed to negotiate peace with a culture that names their streets and schools after martyrs who killed innocent people?
8
Well said, Rocky. This was an awful act committed by a despicable murderer. Whether that murderer is a Jew or Palestinian, s/he deserves capital punishment.
It IS interesting that liberals in here use their 'feelings for the downtrodden Palestinian People' as a disguise for a darker bias. Many are anti-semites lacking the courage to own that horrible description.
Ironic that American Jews bankroll and support so many liberal causes in the USA while their 'progressive' allies secretly despise them.
It IS interesting that liberals in here use their 'feelings for the downtrodden Palestinian People' as a disguise for a darker bias. Many are anti-semites lacking the courage to own that horrible description.
Ironic that American Jews bankroll and support so many liberal causes in the USA while their 'progressive' allies secretly despise them.
5
Utterly amazing.
A fire is started by unknown persons, and the NYTimes is Johnny on the Spot to print 'Jewish Arsonists' as the culprits.
One child died.How terrible (yes, it is, but...)
Where are all the NY Times stories of muslims burning OCCUPIED churches to the ground, killing hundreds of Christians, men, women, children, the elderly?
Where are the stories of the literal tens of thousands of Christian children kidnapped, raped, tortured, forced into sexual slavery, or forced to marry their islamic rapists and 'convert' to islam?
Oh, my bad, that is politically incorrect. Sorry I mentioned it.
HYPOCRITES.
A fire is started by unknown persons, and the NYTimes is Johnny on the Spot to print 'Jewish Arsonists' as the culprits.
One child died.How terrible (yes, it is, but...)
Where are all the NY Times stories of muslims burning OCCUPIED churches to the ground, killing hundreds of Christians, men, women, children, the elderly?
Where are the stories of the literal tens of thousands of Christian children kidnapped, raped, tortured, forced into sexual slavery, or forced to marry their islamic rapists and 'convert' to islam?
Oh, my bad, that is politically incorrect. Sorry I mentioned it.
HYPOCRITES.
12
And notice that the Times describes them as "Jewish" arsonists rather than "Israeli" arsonists. When Palesinians or Hamas etc attack Israelis, the Times does not describe them by their religion.
10
Yesterday in this newspaper, I read that a "deranged" Orthodox Jewish man stabbed 6 people in Jerusalem.
However, today I read that Orthodox Jewish infanticide on the West Bank is not "deranged"; it is simply "arson". Additionally, neither incident, yesterday or today, is considered "terrorism". (And I use the word, “Jewish”, and not “Israeli”, as the NYT has used the word.)
Okay.
So I infer that our US tax money is going to support these "sane Orthodox Jewish arsonists" with their illegal settlements in occupied Palestine.
Ergo, we Americans all have this baby's blood on our hands. We and these "sane Orthodox Jewish arsonists" are one.
How long do we, with our tax money, remain "one" with them? How long does the abomination of supporting a right-wing, theocratic state like Israel, against its Semitic brothers, the Palestinians, go on? When does the abomination stop?
However, today I read that Orthodox Jewish infanticide on the West Bank is not "deranged"; it is simply "arson". Additionally, neither incident, yesterday or today, is considered "terrorism". (And I use the word, “Jewish”, and not “Israeli”, as the NYT has used the word.)
Okay.
So I infer that our US tax money is going to support these "sane Orthodox Jewish arsonists" with their illegal settlements in occupied Palestine.
Ergo, we Americans all have this baby's blood on our hands. We and these "sane Orthodox Jewish arsonists" are one.
How long do we, with our tax money, remain "one" with them? How long does the abomination of supporting a right-wing, theocratic state like Israel, against its Semitic brothers, the Palestinians, go on? When does the abomination stop?
34
EDG: Read a bit outside the NYT---heck, even read the associated article again---and you will learn that Jewish Israeli leaders in the government, including Netanyahu, have strongly condemned the arson and called it terrorism. You can't get the part about government leaders calling the arsonists terrorists right, but you can state unequivocally that the arsonists are Jewish? Hmmm, makes me wonder about you.
5
1) It can ot infanticide since the child is too old. It may be homicide.
2) There is a difference in the state of mind of the perpetrator between mere arson and murder. In the case of murder the intent was to kill the person. In the case of mere arson the intent was to destroy a structure. Because arson creates a the high risk of unintended harm to people, arson is a serious crime and the law holds the arsonist criminally responsible for any unintended death. Arson may also be used as a tool to kill people intentionally as ISIS has repeatedly done. In that case it is not mere arson, it is murder the same as if a different tool was used.
2) There is a difference in the state of mind of the perpetrator between mere arson and murder. In the case of murder the intent was to kill the person. In the case of mere arson the intent was to destroy a structure. Because arson creates a the high risk of unintended harm to people, arson is a serious crime and the law holds the arsonist criminally responsible for any unintended death. Arson may also be used as a tool to kill people intentionally as ISIS has repeatedly done. In that case it is not mere arson, it is murder the same as if a different tool was used.
1
Some of U.S. taxpayers' money given to the Palestinian Authority goes to pay the "salaries" of Palestinians convicted of terrorism in Israeli prisons, in effect subsidizing their acts of terrorism. We should cut off that stream of revenue as well, unless the P.A. stops subsidizing terrorism!
4
The Israelis should be brought before the world court and charged with destroying Palestinians homes to may way for their "settlements".
27
Gideon Brenner comments, "[terrorist] is a word that the NYT never seems to use when the perpetrators turn out to be Jewish." Brenner might note that the article quotes Israelis, including Netanyahu, as referring to the attack as "terrorism." In his (and those who recommended his comment) rush to blanket responsibility, it would help if they read the article. In any case, to equate Jew and Israeli smacks of some form of prejudiced bias, if not plain old anti-Semitism.
I wonder if Brenner, while questioning American dollars going to Israel, has spent his American dollars on a comment-writing computer made in China, which violently occupies Tibet. Of course I am certain he does not spend dollars buying gasoline from Iraq or Saudi Arabia, whose human rights track records actually manage to make Israel's look good, not the easiest of tasks.
I also wonder how Brenner has gone about holding the United States, his own country, accountable for its invasion and occupation of Iraq, in which many more people have been killed, most definitely including children, than have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian struggle.
I wonder if Brenner, while questioning American dollars going to Israel, has spent his American dollars on a comment-writing computer made in China, which violently occupies Tibet. Of course I am certain he does not spend dollars buying gasoline from Iraq or Saudi Arabia, whose human rights track records actually manage to make Israel's look good, not the easiest of tasks.
I also wonder how Brenner has gone about holding the United States, his own country, accountable for its invasion and occupation of Iraq, in which many more people have been killed, most definitely including children, than have been killed in the Israeli-Palestinian struggle.
15
The Israeli government invites extremists to immigrate to Israel. They allow foreign extremists to build on Palestinian land as they sanction the settlements. Now they are mourning the death of a Palestinian baby at the hands of those settlers? Netanyahu's words ring hollow.
31
This heinous crime must be punished like any other terrorist act in Israel, Judea and Samaria. And if that means razing the homes of the settlers as the Gov't would do to a Palestinian terrorist's home, then so be it. Equal justice under the law will be served.
8
I shuddered when I read that the young father worked building houses for settlers. Imagine how awful that must have felt even before this heinous crime, as having no other source of income to feed his family, he had to do it. And now his baby is dead at their hands.
22
During last summer's Gaza war, a Hamas spokesman in Turkey admitted that Hamas had funded and contracted for the kidnapping and murder of three Jewish seminary students in the West Bank. Before the Palestinian Authority demands that the Israeli government accept responsibility for this atrocity which killed an 18 month old child, are they willing to accept responsibility for the random murders of Israelis? Other than casing the blame on the other side, what is each party willing to do to reduce and hopefully end the violence?
This Hobbesian "war of all against all" dates from the 1947 U.N. Partition of the former British Mandate under UNGAR 181. While the Israelis had initially accepted the Partition, over the course of various war against it, Israel has expanded to include all of the Mandate, with the exception of Gaza, which it gave up in 2005. The only peaceful resolution can be gained by a negotiated creation of a Palestinian state in exchange for peace with Israel and the mutual respect of each state for the other. Under UNSCR 242 and 338, each state is entitled to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries." Those who seek a "one to the exclusion of the other" proposition, only ensure that the violent conflict will continue and that children will continue to die at the hands of extremists!
This Hobbesian "war of all against all" dates from the 1947 U.N. Partition of the former British Mandate under UNGAR 181. While the Israelis had initially accepted the Partition, over the course of various war against it, Israel has expanded to include all of the Mandate, with the exception of Gaza, which it gave up in 2005. The only peaceful resolution can be gained by a negotiated creation of a Palestinian state in exchange for peace with Israel and the mutual respect of each state for the other. Under UNSCR 242 and 338, each state is entitled to exist within "secure and recognized boundaries." Those who seek a "one to the exclusion of the other" proposition, only ensure that the violent conflict will continue and that children will continue to die at the hands of extremists!
4
Much as the extreme right is attempting holding America hostage to it's absurd ideas, the Extreme Right in Israel – the same types who assassinated and applauded the assassination of Rabin – are simply zealots out of control and held sway to some absurdist mythology.
They must be held accountable and every action possible taken to stop them, though this will be incredibly difficult with Netanyahu in power. He simply panders to these groups.
They must be held accountable and every action possible taken to stop them, though this will be incredibly difficult with Netanyahu in power. He simply panders to these groups.
9
Will they put the whole settlement under curfew until they catch the terrorists who did this? WIll they rouse all males between 14 and 65 in the middle of the night and blindfold and interrogate them without the presence of an attorney? Will they demolish the homes of the perpetrators or maybe just seal them. Will they use torture on the suspects to force them to confess? They seem to think those tactics work to with Palestinians suspected of terrorism. Why not use the same tactics now?
47
Points to the government for calling them terrorists, flat out, rather than excusing the attack as the work of "deranged individuals."
Now how about admitting that the policy of settling Israeli citizens on Palestinian land has given rise to a mindset of entitlement which justifies murder in retaliation for a judicial order to demolish an illegal settlement?
Now how about admitting that the policy of settling Israeli citizens on Palestinian land has given rise to a mindset of entitlement which justifies murder in retaliation for a judicial order to demolish an illegal settlement?
15
B'Tselem reports that this is the ninth such arson attack against a Palestinian home in the West Bank over the past three years. Israeli authorities have not charged a single person in the previous attacks. In another case, a molotov cocktail was thrown at a taxi and the family travelling in it suffered serious burns. There are hundreds of attacks against Palestinians and their property each year.
These attacks are a symptom of decades of handling the settler movement with kid gloves. They are a direct result of the Israeli government's complicity in and inability to control the illegal settlement enterprise in the West Bank. It is the direct result of successive Israeli government's inability to resolve their conflict with Palestinians so they can enjoy their right to self-determination and all the human rights they are entitled to. These rights are not Israel's to "grant" or "allow" as many erroneously say. They are rights that the Israeli government has suppressed for decades.
The military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem is about to enter it's 50th year. Many people within Israel and without, predicted the occupation would corrupt Israeli society and the institutions of the Israeli state. That fate has come to pass.
These attacks are a symptom of decades of handling the settler movement with kid gloves. They are a direct result of the Israeli government's complicity in and inability to control the illegal settlement enterprise in the West Bank. It is the direct result of successive Israeli government's inability to resolve their conflict with Palestinians so they can enjoy their right to self-determination and all the human rights they are entitled to. These rights are not Israel's to "grant" or "allow" as many erroneously say. They are rights that the Israeli government has suppressed for decades.
The military occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem is about to enter it's 50th year. Many people within Israel and without, predicted the occupation would corrupt Israeli society and the institutions of the Israeli state. That fate has come to pass.
28
Thank god for BTselem which has been giving shepherds, olive harvesters and many other Palestinians who are ROUTINELY attacked by brutal armed settlers whilst IDF stand by and watch doing nothing. Written reports of beatings of children and accompanying retired clergy, as with Christian Peacekeepers in Hebron were horrid enough to routinely read about, particularly an elderly nun whose jaw was broken by a brutal settler, but the videos revealed complacent approval by the (most moral) army. THIS CANNOT stand any longer.
9
Writers like Subirgrewal point to the length of the West Bank occupation, implying that continuation of the occupation is Israel's fault. Not so: it's because Arab nations (Egypt and Jordan excepted) have refused to make peace with Israel, acknowledge Israel's right to exist on its own terms, and stop making war on Israel.
3
Not for a long time has the response of prominent Jews to a brutal atrocity perpetrated by Jews evoked poignant, cherished memories of the Jews of my youth in the 1940s who had true compassion and pity for the brutalized in their hearts and words and actions. Theirs was the true Jewish soul that has endured and thrived through the centuries: kind and caring and reverent and indomitable.
The compassionate, caring feelings and words of Yinon Magal, a member of the Israeli Parliament from the pro-settler Jewish Home faction and Isaac Herzog, leader of Parliament’s center-left Zionist Union faction have resurrected in me the repect and admiration I had for Jews in my youth.
“This is not a Jewish act, this is not a moral act, this is a terrible act. We do not do such things. This is not our way,” said Yinon Magal.
“It makes you want to sit down and cry out a bitter cry like in a day of mourning… Your soul cries out and cannot find solace....," said Isaac Herzog.
This is the soul that must escape from and transcend the sad shadows that ensue from such cruel and inhuman sentiments like "cutting the grass."
The compassionate, caring feelings and words of Yinon Magal, a member of the Israeli Parliament from the pro-settler Jewish Home faction and Isaac Herzog, leader of Parliament’s center-left Zionist Union faction have resurrected in me the repect and admiration I had for Jews in my youth.
“This is not a Jewish act, this is not a moral act, this is a terrible act. We do not do such things. This is not our way,” said Yinon Magal.
“It makes you want to sit down and cry out a bitter cry like in a day of mourning… Your soul cries out and cannot find solace....," said Isaac Herzog.
This is the soul that must escape from and transcend the sad shadows that ensue from such cruel and inhuman sentiments like "cutting the grass."
3
No, this is not a "Jewish act", but the evidence thus far alleges that it was an act committed by Jews. To imply that "Jews don't do such heinous things", gives all too many Jews a harbor for denial based on moral sanctimony. Any person, whether Jew on not, is capable of committing such atrocities, and unless we all face our own darker capacities head on, then we are all too vulnerable to be sucked into such brutalities, whether it is burning children or stabbing parade goers.
6
Because it is an innocent Palestinian baby, we should be trying our best to investigate who actually did this. Graffiti and Jewish images and the allegations from the distraught family should not be enough evidence to start hanging all Israelis! The headline reads, "Jewish Arsonists SUSPECTED". Does no one understand what the word "suspected" means?? The whole article and everyone's comments keep referring to these killers as Jewish Extremists with absolutely nothing to base their comments on. Without actual evidence, these murderers must be labelled as Murderers, not Israeli killers or Palestinian killers. All you are doing is fueling more hatred! You all are giving more power and more satisfaction to those men that killed that poor baby. They obviously wanted everyone to believe that this killing was done by Israeli hands. They want everyone to jump to conclusions. All of you are so quick to become the judge, jury, and executioner with completely no evidence except for couple words that were conveniently written in Hebrew on a wall pointing the finger on who did it. I bet everyone would respond the same way if the message plainly said in Hebrew, "Israelis were here". The raging global Antisemitism never ceases to amaze me.
13
Seriously? And you wait for proof positive identification prior to condemning an act as "Palestinian terror"? Somehow, I doubt that.
8
The terrorists left the evidence themselves. What does it take to convince you? Obviously, nothing can!
9
Yeah - but that goes both ways
1
I hope Ali Saad Dawabsheh finds the peace in paradise that he was unable to find on earth. All Israeli's should be ashamed at what happened
11
An investigation is forthcoming. No one knows who is responsible yet.
Should "all" Americans be "ashamed" because (HIV positive) Ryan White's family was fire-bombed in the 80s? I should hope not.
Should "all" Americans be "ashamed" because (HIV positive) Ryan White's family was fire-bombed in the 80s? I should hope not.
4
Firstly, it's not clear that this was done by Jews, and if it was, it was loudly condemned by the all Israeli including any living in Judea and Samaria, and the Prime Minister made it clear that the murder would be prosecuted regardless of the nationality of the perpetrator.
Secondly, you didn't bother reporting here that Palestinians in response set fires in several Jewish neighborhoods sending dozens of Israeli's to the hospital with smoke inhalation, in addition to yet another shooting at an Israeli on the highway in the past 24 hours.
Trying to compare the institutionalized hatred by the Palestinian governments to the rare, harmful response by Israeli's to regular, government sponsored terrorist attacks is ludicrous and dishonest reporting.
Secondly, you didn't bother reporting here that Palestinians in response set fires in several Jewish neighborhoods sending dozens of Israeli's to the hospital with smoke inhalation, in addition to yet another shooting at an Israeli on the highway in the past 24 hours.
Trying to compare the institutionalized hatred by the Palestinian governments to the rare, harmful response by Israeli's to regular, government sponsored terrorist attacks is ludicrous and dishonest reporting.
12
Smoke inhalation versus murder - hardly the same.
5
Is there not a similar institutionalized hatred of the Palestinian population segments of the Israeli government and populace? The institutionalized hatred goes both ways and this most recent atrocity is a direct result.
2
Pretty impressed to see PM Netanyahu step up and unequivocally denounce this terrorist attack. I'm no fan of the guy but it is nice to see him man up for a change.
Less impressed with the NYTimes for spending half the article recounting Palestinian attacks on Israelis. Never miss an opportunity do you?
Love the idea of bulldozing the Israeli perps' homes. Want to restore a little cred with the world? This would go viral. Maybe someone could start believing in Israel again.
Less impressed with the NYTimes for spending half the article recounting Palestinian attacks on Israelis. Never miss an opportunity do you?
Love the idea of bulldozing the Israeli perps' homes. Want to restore a little cred with the world? This would go viral. Maybe someone could start believing in Israel again.
14
What's also very sad to me about this, and oddly seems to have been removed from the article, is that the unfortunate parents of this unjustly killed toddler were victims of a rather negative culture. I don't know why this got removed, but on first reading this said that they were first cousins in an arranged marriage. So their parents, connected as siblings, had forced cousins to marry. This is not a culture headed for greatness.
Sad too that as Palestinians they were doomed to a life of grinding poverty, toxins in the environment, stone age infrastructure, harassment by the thuggish Israeli and Palestinian governments, having more children than they could support, never being able to travel, never being able to escape.
I think if the world really wants to solve the Israel/Palestine problem, we'd need to evacuate all sane, peaceful people who just want to succeed and have a happy life. Everyone who wants to kill in the name of god can stick around there and do that to eachother until the water runs out.
Sad too that as Palestinians they were doomed to a life of grinding poverty, toxins in the environment, stone age infrastructure, harassment by the thuggish Israeli and Palestinian governments, having more children than they could support, never being able to travel, never being able to escape.
I think if the world really wants to solve the Israel/Palestine problem, we'd need to evacuate all sane, peaceful people who just want to succeed and have a happy life. Everyone who wants to kill in the name of god can stick around there and do that to eachother until the water runs out.
2
Cousins have been marrying for millennia and it is still a very common practice, even in the West. Great civilizations came and went with such practices. It is not a detriment for greatness. It is not an indicative of inferiority. I would even speculate that the rate of divorce among cousins is much smaller than non-cousins.
3
So it's okay to attack those who come from "a culture not headed for greatness," is it?
11
Dear FT,
Cousins marrying produces inbred children, leads to genetic damage, in the next generation and successive ones. When a culture starts promoting inbreeding, as with the Romans, it deteriorates because that genetic damage does produce terrible maladies. Great civilizations arose, fell into these practices, and vanished, is how it went. Divorce rates are unimportant, genetics is what lasts.
Dear Tom,
Not in the least, I didn't mean to imply anything of the sort. Just pointing out what a horrible thing it is to be born into that region and that culture to begin with. Cousins being forced to marry is no reason to kill anyone, but it is a reason for the culture promoting it to fall apart on its own.
Cousins marrying produces inbred children, leads to genetic damage, in the next generation and successive ones. When a culture starts promoting inbreeding, as with the Romans, it deteriorates because that genetic damage does produce terrible maladies. Great civilizations arose, fell into these practices, and vanished, is how it went. Divorce rates are unimportant, genetics is what lasts.
Dear Tom,
Not in the least, I didn't mean to imply anything of the sort. Just pointing out what a horrible thing it is to be born into that region and that culture to begin with. Cousins being forced to marry is no reason to kill anyone, but it is a reason for the culture promoting it to fall apart on its own.
2
We need to stop sanitizing land thieves and illegal occupiers with the world settlers. Settlers is a benign terms used as a PR distraction. Far many more homes and farms have been illegally burned and people murdered to make way for "settlement" Stalin said to kill one many is murder, to kill thousands is just statistics. Maybe the horrific murder by fire of one baby will finally open the eyes of the world to the sixty years of systemic murder and displacement the Palestinian people have faced since the creation of Israel.
45
Israel was to be one of two states, under UNGAR 181, enacted in 1947. While Israel accepted the Partition, the Arabs rejected it, sending 5 armies to eradicate Israel. As a consequence of several failed "wars of aggression," Arabs lost land, as Israel expanded. In 2000 and again in 2008, Israeli governments offered to return 95% of captured land in exchange for peace, which were ignored by Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, without counter-offers, or initiatives of their own. Refusing to make a decision is a decision in itself: acceptance of the status-quo!
If Palestinians are unwilling to negotiate compromise to create a state of their own and persist in a "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, Israel, in order to preserve its national independence and territorial integrity may retain captured territory. Under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," may retain captured land until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Taking an "all, or nothing perspective" will only guarantee that Palestinians get nothing!
If Palestinians are unwilling to negotiate compromise to create a state of their own and persist in a "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, Israel, in order to preserve its national independence and territorial integrity may retain captured territory. Under International Law, Israel as the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," may retain captured land until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
Taking an "all, or nothing perspective" will only guarantee that Palestinians get nothing!
6
The ultra-orthodox are on the verge of destroying the State of Israel by their narrow views and non-negotiable demands. Strangely enough, they seem to favor an Israel that most closely resembles their "enemy" Iran as an effective and intolerant theocracy. Shame on them, and on Netanyahu for encouraging them in his search to preserve his power.
51
This terrorist attack, like all of them, is absolutely appalling. As with all such attacks for a political/religious cause on innocent people, I feel very strongly and harshly that the perpetrators have proved themselves unfit to continue existing. Once it's proven who they were, I see no point in capturing them alive, nor giving them a decent burial.
One thing to keep in mind is that Hamas would have no compunction against doing this themselves and putting up Hebrew graffiti to make it look like Jewish people did it. Quite possibly they thought this family had ties to Israel, spying for them and so on, and they've done plenty of extrajudicial killings of Palestinians over the years.
Regardless, whoever did this should be hunted and terminated, and I think the common policy in Israel of demolishing their homes should apply, whether they're Jewish or Palestinian. This sort of attack cannot be tolerated and any such attackers must be used as an object lesson.
Lastly my condolences to all Palestinians and Israelis who have to deal with the insane, homicidal fallout of this idiotic religious war, and I would advise everyone in Israel and Palestinian lands to leave if they want peace. The region is drying out very fast now, and when the water's gone, there won't be peace, no matter what, until all the humans are gone too. Don't stick around to witness it, it's going to get much worse before it gets depopulated.
One thing to keep in mind is that Hamas would have no compunction against doing this themselves and putting up Hebrew graffiti to make it look like Jewish people did it. Quite possibly they thought this family had ties to Israel, spying for them and so on, and they've done plenty of extrajudicial killings of Palestinians over the years.
Regardless, whoever did this should be hunted and terminated, and I think the common policy in Israel of demolishing their homes should apply, whether they're Jewish or Palestinian. This sort of attack cannot be tolerated and any such attackers must be used as an object lesson.
Lastly my condolences to all Palestinians and Israelis who have to deal with the insane, homicidal fallout of this idiotic religious war, and I would advise everyone in Israel and Palestinian lands to leave if they want peace. The region is drying out very fast now, and when the water's gone, there won't be peace, no matter what, until all the humans are gone too. Don't stick around to witness it, it's going to get much worse before it gets depopulated.
4
This is horrible. Whoever did this, Jewish or not, they should be punished, and will be. The Israeli army and police which some of you are so quick to condemn are the ones looking for these killers to arrest them to get justice and get those people off the streets. 1-2 people do not represent the 8 million Israeli's living in Israel. So far every Israeli has been disgusted and speaking out against this. A couple of murderers do not represent a whole society. The difference is that the Israeli government is condemning this, while the Palestinian government is telling it's people to go out and murder Israeli's for "pay back". That is the differance between Israel and Hammas & Abbas. Now please stop using this as an excuse to make anti-sematic and anti-Israel statements. Thank you
11
How do you think these 'settler's' are there to begin with? That the Israeli government or society is not complicit in this ongoing situation, by failing to act on the continued illegal occupation and theft of Palestinian lands? And who in the PA authority is saying go out an kill murder Israeli's?
Sounds like a bunch of hasbara to me.
Sounds like a bunch of hasbara to me.
23
I can't tell you about every tiny community in the West Bank but but most communities bought the land they built on from the Arab owners. If you own something and I buy it, that is not stealing. Over 1 million Arabs live in Israel. Visit Israel and you will see for yourself. So why can't Israeli's live on land they purchased from Arab owners in the West Bank? Hammas and Abbas have already called for "pay back" which is why now thousands of Israeli soldiers are being deployed around Israel. There have been a few shootings here in Miami in the fast week, should other countries start accusing "America" of these murderers? Of course not! Now enough already.. Israel will catch them and justice will be served.
3
Make no mistake about it, this is Netanyahu's Israel, these are his key constituents, they are terrorists plain and simple and they are the primary reason Israel will never live in peace, If peace is to ever come to the Israeli people they must take their country back, but alas, based on the last election results it is just going to be more of the same, I am 55 years old and this record has been repeating itself for my entire life with the exception of Rabin and we all saw what happened to him
55
There's one exceptional side to this arson attact, even the Israelis call it terrorism.
The Israeli government should be forced to pay for damage the settlers and other Orthodox Jews cause to the Palestinians.
The Israeli government should be forced to pay for damage the settlers and other Orthodox Jews cause to the Palestinians.
14
As a Jew, and supporter of the State of Israel, this breaks my heart. Bibi is not helping.
2
Any parent is familiar with their children bickering and quarrelling; it's what children do. A wise parent soon learns to disregard the constant refrain of "s/he started it" and the counter refrain, "s/he hit me first." The wise parent learns to disregard this nonsense, and visit equal punishment on both children, which soon inspires the children to settle their own differences.
If the children of Abraham can't amicably resolve their differences, as they have shown over the past 67 years, perhaps it's time for the rest of the world to stop taking sides in their incessant feud, that traces back to Abraham, Ismael and Isaac. Perhaps it's time to punish both factions with crippling sanctions, until they can find common ground among themselves.
Sad experience has proven beyond any doubt, that our current approach just doesn't work, and will never lead to a peaceful outcome. It's time for a dramatically different approach.
If the children of Abraham can't amicably resolve their differences, as they have shown over the past 67 years, perhaps it's time for the rest of the world to stop taking sides in their incessant feud, that traces back to Abraham, Ismael and Isaac. Perhaps it's time to punish both factions with crippling sanctions, until they can find common ground among themselves.
Sad experience has proven beyond any doubt, that our current approach just doesn't work, and will never lead to a peaceful outcome. It's time for a dramatically different approach.
3
Such murderous acts in Israel share similarities with murders being committed in the U.S. like the nine people killed in church in Charleston SC. The perpetrators' motivations are all based on warped and sick ideologies. And those in both governments who condemn such acts while they spew their hateful rhetoric against the victims are two-faced and deserve a measure of the blame for these atrocities.
27
The problem isn't fundamentalist, it's official government policy. It will be the Palestinian neighborhood that will quietly be locked down in the name of security. They'll tear down some houses to build fences or barricades until the neighborhood isn't viable anymore. Then it will be demolished and new houses for Jewish settlers will be built. It's a plan.
35
I am appalled and sickened by this crime committed by these Jewish terrorists. I am pleased to see that "Israeli politicians across the spectrum also quickly condemned the arson as barbaric, heinous and “a terror attack,” a term usually reserved for Palestinian violence against Jews. Members of Parliament, President Reuven Rivlin and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited Ahmad and Mrs. Dawabsheh in the hospital Friday afternoon." I'd love to see where Abbas and his ilk condemned attacks against innocent Jews such as the killing of 3 month old baby Chaye Zisel Braun who was murdered when a car crashed into a crowd at a light rail station in Jerusalem by a Palestinian or the four Rabbis killed in Har Nof in the middle of prayer.
14
Well I do recall that Mr. Abbas and his ilk strongly condemned the similarly insane attack on Charlie Hebdo's offices and went to Paris to march in protest. So I think Mr. Abbas is not so much the problem here, more Hamas, random terrorists, and Jewish or Muslim fundamentalists.
3
They condemned Charlie Hebdo but not the attack on the Jewish supermarket. What about things committed by their own people in Israel. Netanyahu & the entire Israeli government condemned this attack and will prosecute the perpetrators like they did with the murderers of Mohammed Abu Khdeir. Did Abbas promise to find the murderers of Gilad Shaar, 16; Naftali Frenkel, 16; and Eyal Yifrach, 19 who were kidnapped and murdered last summer? No, they did not.
Palestinian moms, dads, grandparents, college students and children headed out over the weekend with sweets in hand to celebrate the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers.Reporters who cover Palestinian affairs linked to photos on Palestinian Facebook pages and websites documenting the festivities.At Bir Zeit University near Ramallah, students affiliated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction of the PLO handed out sweets at the campus entrance to celebrate the kidnapping. Hamas-affiliated media posted photos from Gaza where sweets including baklava were handed out. Palestinians in Gaza also celebrated the killing of four worshippers at a synagogue in Jerusalem. Masked militants posed for pictures holding knifes and axes, as women scattered sweets to children amid wavering green Hamas flags and banners commemorating the assailants.
I do not see photos of Israelis doing the same and celebrating the death of this innocent baby boy or injuries to this family.
Palestinian moms, dads, grandparents, college students and children headed out over the weekend with sweets in hand to celebrate the kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers.Reporters who cover Palestinian affairs linked to photos on Palestinian Facebook pages and websites documenting the festivities.At Bir Zeit University near Ramallah, students affiliated with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction of the PLO handed out sweets at the campus entrance to celebrate the kidnapping. Hamas-affiliated media posted photos from Gaza where sweets including baklava were handed out. Palestinians in Gaza also celebrated the killing of four worshippers at a synagogue in Jerusalem. Masked militants posed for pictures holding knifes and axes, as women scattered sweets to children amid wavering green Hamas flags and banners commemorating the assailants.
I do not see photos of Israelis doing the same and celebrating the death of this innocent baby boy or injuries to this family.
2
This is a heinous act of terror and those responsible should face the death penalty. They should absolutely be called terrorists because that is what they are. However, those who are claiming the NYT has an anti-Palestinian bias would do well to consider the coverage of the incident that allegedly incited this one (the link is in "Related Stories"). A 26-year-old college student was brutally gunned down by Palestinian gunmen after a basketball game. The story shared a single paragraph with several other incidents that happened in Israel that day. In contrast, this story contains 26 paragraphs, 3 heart-wrenching pictures and a video clip. This story is worse and deserves more attention, but the chasm between the two stories is certainly revealing about which direction the bias runs.
8
What can be done? Israelis don't reject Netanyahu and his rhetoric and policies - they just re elected him. From whence would change come?
25
Dear Blue State,
Grimly, as I keep trying to point out, change is coming from the desert. Climate change and overpopulation are rendering the entire Mideast incapable of producing enough water to keep its current population alive. The water wars that will overtake it soon enough will cut population, along with dehydration, to the point where war ceases because there's nobody left to fight it. For certain, change cannot come from fundamentalists of any stripe, because they never accept reality, or compromise, or feel a need to act peacefully.
Grimly, as I keep trying to point out, change is coming from the desert. Climate change and overpopulation are rendering the entire Mideast incapable of producing enough water to keep its current population alive. The water wars that will overtake it soon enough will cut population, along with dehydration, to the point where war ceases because there's nobody left to fight it. For certain, change cannot come from fundamentalists of any stripe, because they never accept reality, or compromise, or feel a need to act peacefully.
2
It would take the likes of a Nelson Mandela or Martin Luther King, Jr. or an effective U.N. (unlikely) that could come in and force change. Neither side is positioned to stop their part in the cycle of terrorism.
2
Maybe change will come when people on both sides stop the hysterical over-reactions and blanket condemnations of the other and try to understand each sides legitimate concerns without bias or prejudgement (not what all the commenters are doing here). And maybe you should think more about why Israelis "dont reject" and "re-elect" Netanyahu. I think common sense dictates that any nation of people against whom a double-standard of criticism is consistently used by hostile critis, and whom the rest of the world threatens with boycott, ostracism, and isolation, would probably close ranks and take a posture of defensiveness including the re-election of a politician whose agenda is to protect them from the rest of the world (eg. Iran) In answer to your question, it is only when Israel is treated fairly by critics and the rest of the world will they in turn have the ability not to be defensive will necessary compromises and peace occur.
2
This is not the humanistic Judaism that I know! Netanyahu and and his right-wing thugs support terror...
37
Whoops, that should be only one "and."
I would ask the NYT to try to ask our Presidential candidates for their thoughts on this situation. It would be especially interesting to hear Gov. Huckabee's take on this issue. A follow up to the question would be to get their opinion on the repeat offender Parade stabber. I wonder if they could bring themselves to admit that these are horrendous actions? Is blind unconditional support for Israeli actions and inaction simply a cornerstone to their platform?
38
I think the more interesting question about the stabber is what they would do to curb or prevent violence against minorities like the lgbt community.
1
I am guessing that, if this had been a Palestinian killing a settler child, revenge would have been swift and merciless with air bombing campaigns aimed at elementary schools.
51
Fortunately, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the PLO are proponents of peace, so there will no retaliation by them.
6
Joeseph you define the problem in just a few words, although not in the way you think. The Jews involved in this are terrorists, their settlements should be leveled just the way Isreal does to Palestinian homes of Palestians who are even just accused of a crime. Instead people will make comments like yours, deflecting from the horror, and the wound will fester. I stopped sending money along time ago for that very reason
12
no that would not have happened. The Itamar attack,also called the Itamar massacre,was an attack on a Jewish family in the Israeli settlement of Itamar in the West Bank that took place on 11 March 2011, in which five members of the same family were murdered in their beds. The victims were the father Ehud (Udi) Fogel, the mother Ruth Fogel, and three of their six children—Yoav, 11, Elad, 4, and Hadas, the youngest, a three-month-old infant. According to David Ha'ivri, and as reported by multiple sources the infant was decapitated. The settlement of Itamar had been the target of several murderous attacks before these killings. Israel did not attack Gaza. Last summer's Gaza war was due to the incessant bolbing of Israel by Hamas. The stated aim of the Israeli operation was to stop rocket fire from Gaza into Israel. See here how many rockets were fired into Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Isra...
2
the stabbings in Jerusalem, now this. wither Israel?
7
The headline refers to Jewish arsonists. Why not Jewish terrorists? What would the headline read if this had been an attack on a Jewish family leading to the death of a toddler? Our nomenclature must remain consistent, no matter whose religion has been hijacked by killers to justify immoral actions.
48
Good point and something I failed to point out in my own comment.
2
Dear Steve R.,
Exactly right, I can find no justification for not calling the attackers terrorists. But it's not yet proven that they were Jewish, quite possible that this was Hamas, as they do this sort of thing often and without hesitation.
Exactly right, I can find no justification for not calling the attackers terrorists. But it's not yet proven that they were Jewish, quite possible that this was Hamas, as they do this sort of thing often and without hesitation.
2
Seems that the murderers made a point of acting in the name of their religion, based on the graffiti they left behind. Thus, Jewish is more appropriate in this case than Israeli. And while we're at it, "terrorist" would be more appropriate than "arsonist."
13
My mother would say " measure people by what they do, not what they say".
13
"carried out by settlers in retribution for Palestinian attacks on Jews": a nice peace of biased reporting by the New York Times. Israeli settlers are in other words only responding in kind to acts committed first by the Palestinians. It is never because these settlers, who after all are the occupiers and many of whom are extremists and racists, are the original instigators of the violence.
59
Rudoren does what she can to protect her people.
4
Agreed, incidence of fire is arson. But an arson with a brutal and vicious intent to kill is arson? If so, the definition has to change. It was a pre-mediated, cold-blooded murder just like the horrendous beheadings by the ISIS. Pray tell me what the Palestinian toddler and his brother do to justify this or for that matter their young parents eaking out a living? Now we'll wait for the spin on this terrorist act. It has already begun with the word 'arson'.
31
Yet Netanyahu ordered just this week the construction of another 300 settler homes in Palestinian territory creating more instability and fueling more vitriol between the ultra orthodox and the Palestinian counterparts.
48
Just remember the words which, in a rare moment of honesty, escaped Netanyahu's lips: there will never be an independent Palestinian state on his watch. His later insipid revisions notwithstanding, the status quo will remain under his leadership: settlers, treated like national heroes for stealing land and making life torturous for Palestinians. Since they believe that Palestinians are nuisances in the way to claiming a land deal made by God for them, expect more tragedies like this child's death. This is what the absence of a two-state solution looks like.
45
A story yesterday from Jerusalem , of a vicious knife attack on a
gay pride parade, clearly also a hate crime, was not told to the
American people. One short two sentence story, passed over briefly
on NBC, not at all the usual, was all Americans got.
If this country, used and abused constantly by the Israslis were told the
truth of daily actions and events there, there'd be some changes
made.
gay pride parade, clearly also a hate crime, was not told to the
American people. One short two sentence story, passed over briefly
on NBC, not at all the usual, was all Americans got.
If this country, used and abused constantly by the Israslis were told the
truth of daily actions and events there, there'd be some changes
made.
17
It certainly was told to the American people. Read today's newspapers!
3
It was. What the media including the NY Times didn't report was the fact that Tel Aviv hosted a gay pride parade last month in which almost 200,000 people attended in full freedom and enjoyment without any incident. Guess they figure only Israel-smearing stories sell.
1
Shouldn't the headline be "Israeli Arsonists Suspected...", not Jewish?
13
That would be like saying American suspected of attack on crowded theater. It doesn't really provide a lot of information. Maybe what they meant was settler suspected of terrorist arson attack....
3
It just seems odd that the person who did this would leave that graffiti at all. Why would someone do that? Wouldn't doing it in this manner (even to the point of painting a Jewish star?) point authorities right back to the people who would be trying to avoid detection. This does not add up. Maybe someone did it after the fact. Plenty of Palestinians can read and write in Hebrew. There may be more going on here than we know at this time.
5
Blaming the victims? Now, that is offensive.
Why did the KKK always leave graffiti, burning crosses, etc. as evidence of their crimes? Why do some serial killers leave 'evidence' to let the cops know that it was them? To intimidate others, by saying "you could be next" and "we're not afraid to let you know who we are because we can get away with murder."
Why did the KKK always leave graffiti, burning crosses, etc. as evidence of their crimes? Why do some serial killers leave 'evidence' to let the cops know that it was them? To intimidate others, by saying "you could be next" and "we're not afraid to let you know who we are because we can get away with murder."
7
@ Starman/MN.....the arrogance & brutality of the settlers has been well known for many many years. Graffiti sprayed on the homes of Palestinians...rocks thrown on their roofs and at their windows in wee hours of the night, the rock throwing the beatings the poisoning of their flocks, the contaminations of Palestinian wells has been going on for YEARS. Guess you haven't been following these arrogant trademarks....sometimes even scrawled in english"Arabs to the ovens"......on one man's little home...or the TAKING of a home lived in for 50+ yrs, when Palestinians return from work or vacation find settler FAMILY IN their home, taking over...these abominations have gone on for years....where have you been?
3
Why does the headline call them arsonists? If they had been Palestinian or Arab, it would have called them terrorists! Please be consistent!
54
No. If they were Arab terrorists, they'd have been called "militants."
No. They'd have been called "militants." And Arab propaganda would claim the crime was a Zionist conspiracy designed to besmirch their good name -- assuming the Palestinian Authority or Hamas wouldn't be naming schools and streets after them as they have willfully previous child killers.
Our tax money, $3.5 billion a year for decades, is still going to aid and abet Israel with illegal settlements in occupied Palestine, aiding and abetting terrorism like this. When are we going to stop? What purpose does Israel serve in being the largest recipient of our foreign aid?
Enough is enough.
Enough is enough.
81
$3.5 Billion is TIP of the iceberg. There are the billions of dollars in Israel bonds purchased by 30 or more US states invested in RETIREMENT funds...also by AFL CIO investments...and there are the laundered BILLIONS that go to 'charities' and NGOs like Friends of IDF other tax deductible orgns. which send money to Israel...too many to list/count. Much more than I can list here.
5
PM Netanyahu's condemnation rings hollow when he has been fanning the flame of settlement. This is like Gov Jindal's condemnation of gun violence in Louisiana. Really, what do they expect?
47
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a statement denouncing the attack as a “despicable hate crime” and declaring: “The state of Israel respects the private freedom of individuals which is a fundamental principle exercised in this country. We must ensure that every man and every woman can live in full security in any way that they choose.”
Always on cue, the ever-galling, ever-mendacious Benjamin Netanyahu. Israel was built through the systematic expulsion of its existing Arab population. It continues its brutal subjugation of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories, while Arabs within Israel itself are treated as second-class citizens, subject to unrelenting discrimination.
On the same day as a vicious knife attack against gay pride marchers in Jerusalem, the Israeli parliament demonstrated its commitment to “the private freedom of individuals” by passing legislation authorizing the force-feeding of Palestinian political prisoners on hunger strike, a practice recognized as a form of torture.
The organization Physicians for Human Rights-Israeli commented in a statement that the legislation “pushes the medical community to severely violate medical ethics for political gain, as was done in other dark regimes in history.” The group appealed to doctors “to refuse to serve as a fig leaf for torture.”
Israel was always a bad idea. The last several years we're just seeing how bad.
Always on cue, the ever-galling, ever-mendacious Benjamin Netanyahu. Israel was built through the systematic expulsion of its existing Arab population. It continues its brutal subjugation of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories, while Arabs within Israel itself are treated as second-class citizens, subject to unrelenting discrimination.
On the same day as a vicious knife attack against gay pride marchers in Jerusalem, the Israeli parliament demonstrated its commitment to “the private freedom of individuals” by passing legislation authorizing the force-feeding of Palestinian political prisoners on hunger strike, a practice recognized as a form of torture.
The organization Physicians for Human Rights-Israeli commented in a statement that the legislation “pushes the medical community to severely violate medical ethics for political gain, as was done in other dark regimes in history.” The group appealed to doctors “to refuse to serve as a fig leaf for torture.”
Israel was always a bad idea. The last several years we're just seeing how bad.
47
"Israel was always a bad idea". Nice. Unlike, say the United Staes, with its slavery and Vietnam and so on, or Britain, with its horrific legacy of colonialism and genocide of native populations, or, pick any Arab/Muslim country with their rhetoric of anti-semtiism, with their Sharia law, with beheading, hanging gays, stoning women cutting off arms, etc. No, only Israel is a 'bad idea'. All other countries in the world are not up for question. It's only Israel upon which you feel you can stand in judgment.
Newsflash: it's not an idea. It's a real country, a democracy, despite what the leftist and islamofascist rhetoric would have you believe, no it's not a theocracy, it's not an apartheid state, that's just the rubbish you've been fed. It's a real country full of living breathing human beings, most of whom want nothing more than to live in peace with their neighbors and get on with their lives, astoundingly productive lives, as you apparently have failed to notice with your little dismissive comment there. What precisely would you propose happen to these people? Hmmm?
Newsflash: it's not an idea. It's a real country, a democracy, despite what the leftist and islamofascist rhetoric would have you believe, no it's not a theocracy, it's not an apartheid state, that's just the rubbish you've been fed. It's a real country full of living breathing human beings, most of whom want nothing more than to live in peace with their neighbors and get on with their lives, astoundingly productive lives, as you apparently have failed to notice with your little dismissive comment there. What precisely would you propose happen to these people? Hmmm?
2
"Israel was always a bad idea. The last several years we're just seeing how bad."
Colonization is a prominent theme of European history. Europeans colonized the entire continent of America and consequently hundreds of thousands of native Americans died in from new diseases. Needless to say, native Americans cannot reclaim the island of Manhattan.
Short sided oligarchs like Sheldon Adelson are propping up extremists like Netanyahu whose policies fuel anti semitism. The noble Israel experiment is being undermined because the far right zionists don't see that antisemitism is the greatest threat to Israel's security. Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a far right extremist because he negotiated Israeli-Palestenian peace with the Oslo peace accord.
Everyone, Arab, Jew, have the right to exist and the Israeli people have to reject Netanyahu's fear filled demagoguery.
Colonization is a prominent theme of European history. Europeans colonized the entire continent of America and consequently hundreds of thousands of native Americans died in from new diseases. Needless to say, native Americans cannot reclaim the island of Manhattan.
Short sided oligarchs like Sheldon Adelson are propping up extremists like Netanyahu whose policies fuel anti semitism. The noble Israel experiment is being undermined because the far right zionists don't see that antisemitism is the greatest threat to Israel's security. Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a far right extremist because he negotiated Israeli-Palestenian peace with the Oslo peace accord.
Everyone, Arab, Jew, have the right to exist and the Israeli people have to reject Netanyahu's fear filled demagoguery.
3
PM Netanyahu has made a living inciting settlers. The murder of Yitsak Rabin followed a barrage of vitriolic rhetoric by Netanyahu against the Oslo peace accords. The Palestinians are vulnerable to the tender mercies of the Israelis. One can still hear Netanyahu's panicked calls in the last election that too many Arabs were showing up to vote.
91
And yet, the US Congress embraces Netanyahu, who has been a personal champion of settlers and a proponent of making "facts on the ground." Last year, he sponsored legislation to delineate classes of citizenship between Jews and Arabs. In the subsequent election, he admitted that his settlements were politically strategic. No one believes that he has any intention of stopping illegal land grabs or of wanting life to be so miserable for Palestinians that they leave home in desperation. This tragic, gruesome act is part of the larger picture where Palestinian civilians are obstacles to a larger nation and killing them is akin to "mowing the grass." If only our legislators would stop cow-towing to this and stand up for decency.
87
You notice the vast majority of Jews find these actions despicable.. If Muslims also speak out against despicable acts of Muslims and accept Israel's right to exist with defensible borders, this whole horrible episode of history will be over. I guarantee if Palestinians accept Israel's right to exist, Jews the world over will come to your defense. Palestinians and Jews have a great deal in common and working together they will create a beautiful, successful coalition. The details are easy to work out with an attitude of acceptance of Jews by Muslims. If you want a successful life for you and your family, living in peace, rejecting Israel will only make Jews work harder to defend Israel against efforts to destroy it. Acceptance of Israel and Jews and Jews will happily embrace you and work together for peace.
2
Netanyahu will not lift a finger to rein in the extremist settlers. His policies give them carte blanche, and this is the result. The more I read about extremists in Israeli society, the more I am convinced that the US's strategic interests have diverged in significant, material ways from Israel's.
103
What also struck me was that the Palestinians are forced to build homes for the very settlers who kicked them out of their homes and land to begin with.
How can you justify forcing an indigenous people off their own land, period. Then, as burn to their wound, allowing as one of their only sources of income the construction of the very country you built on their stolen property?
How can you justify forcing an indigenous people off their own land, period. Then, as burn to their wound, allowing as one of their only sources of income the construction of the very country you built on their stolen property?
87
I don't believe they are forced to build anything. The Palestinians are not slaves.
2
There is no bigger crime than killing a child. As terrible as this is, there is no better opportunity for the two parties to come together and cure the terrible disease that is wasting generation after generation in the fire of vengeance.
16
I strongly support your statement...and as there were more than 500 young children massacred last August in Gaza...the healing should begin in Gaza with blockade lifted and reconstruction and restitution begun.
2
More deaths in an endless parade of corpses.Peace will never come to the Mideast when one party(Israel) does not want peace and the other has no control over its people.The USA has been pull into this mess, certainly in recent years by the cooping of our foreign policy and our politics by Pac money , especially foreign elements like AIPAC that operate with impunity. We should in the coming election be more concern with PAC money corrupting the path of this country , and what a disaster the Jewish influence has had in our involvement in the Mideast.ISIS , Hamas, all a creation of the destabilizing moves the Israeli proxy wars have caused.This is what we should be debating , not a wall near Mexico.
41
The man is not a arsonist, he's a terrorist. Call him by what he is.
122
Thank you. I was about to make the same post but you've done it for me.
3
“We are shocked by it, we condemn it fully, the entire Israeli government and all the citizens of Israel. We decry it as a terrorist crime. Terrorism is terrorism. We need to fight it every place it comes from. We will capture these murderers. We will use all the tools at our disposal to bring them to justice and to see justice served to them.” ~Netanyahu
Not my favorite person in the world, but he called it what it was.
Not my favorite person in the world, but he called it what it was.
3
You will never see Ismael Haniya or Meshaal both leaders of Hamas, condemn Palestinian terrorist acts the same way. You will never see Hamas or the PA pursue justice as thoroughly as the Israeli police and court systems when an innocent Israeli civilian is killed by a Palestinian terrorist. Perhaps if hamas came right out condemend and sought justice in the case the the three Yeshiva students killed by Palestinian terrorists, the last Gaza war might never have started.
3
Have the "arsonists" been diagnosed with mental disorder yet. I am waiting. Even the Israelis are calling it a terrorist act, but NYT clings to "arsonist". Was "fire enthusiast" already taken. Shameful double standard.
134
A terrorist can be an arsonist, just as he can be a sniper or a bomb-thrower. The words are not mutually exclusive. Arson is the mechanism. Terror is the motive.
7
C'mon Mr. Mohyyuddin, only folks with names like ours can be branded as terrorists. The name has to be scary enough to earn the term
4
We don't know enough facts yet to start jumping to conclusions here. This is just another article putting Israel in a bad light before the facts are solidified. Whoever committed this crime, should be penalized yes, but let's stop pointing fingers for a moment.
10
I really hope you are being sarcastic.
27
The Israelis have been doing a great job in putting themselves in a bad light.
46
We do know enough facts to determine that this act of terrorism was committed by Israeli extremists. Just because we do not yet know their names does not mean we do not know who is responsible. Start opening your eyes.
22
"The Duma fire appeared to be the most severe recent case of what Israelis call “price tag” attacks, often vandalism of mosques or the uprooting of Palestinians’ olive trees, carried out by bands of settlers in retribution for Palestinian attacks on Jews."
This is yet another example of the NYT showing am anti-Palestinian bias, even in regards to the killing of Children. What was this attack in retribution to? Why create a justification? Even IF there was an original attack that prompted such a response, that attack would be on Israelis, not "Jews" as this pieces states. Jews all over the world are as horrified by the actions of Israel as everyone else is.
This is yet another example of the NYT showing am anti-Palestinian bias, even in regards to the killing of Children. What was this attack in retribution to? Why create a justification? Even IF there was an original attack that prompted such a response, that attack would be on Israelis, not "Jews" as this pieces states. Jews all over the world are as horrified by the actions of Israel as everyone else is.
107
Unfortunately, there is a Star of David painted on the wall of the house. It is a horrible statement, but it signifies that it is a Jewish act, even if that is wrong.
3
Hate seems to beget more hate and gives the hater more reasons to commit more horrendous acts. Each side rationalizing its own deeds. The evil act committed, done by whichever side, renews and refuels the desire for vengence. It's simply ugly. In this case, I think Israel bears the brunt of the blame. For these many years, it's been hard to explain so many of Israel's actions as survival means. Worse is that the ultra-orthodox, like any fundamental ideology, is blind to the other side, as are American fundamentalist Protestants, the unconditionally supporters of Israel, hoping for Jesus' return the conversion of ... No solution is evident, because Israel to get a working majority in the Knesset, has to use the religious and the ultra-orthodox in coalition, and pander to those factions. The UN must intercede and declare an independent state of Palestine and give it the working borders that are fair and feasible for Palestine and Israel. Many American Jews would back this. AIPAC may be powerful, but many American Jews are disturbed by certain actions of the Israeli government. Bibi has proven himself an able republican, but his arrogance and certainty put many Jews, as well as Americans off. His willingness to humiliate Obama, along with help from the Republican Congress makes him unworthy of any respect. His judgment shouldn't be our reason to unconditionally support Israel. We give them economic support, we should receive some return for that.
25
Netanyahu and his government have aided and abetted the settlers for years - and this is the outcome. It is disgusting and disingenuous for him to visit the hospital and issue public statements as if his hands are clean.
386
This is horrible but these were a couple of crazy people and ISRAEL is searching for them...most settlers are not like this. In ISRAELI Universities such as Ariel, which is in the West Bank, Arabs are welcomed and study freely along side Israelis and settlers in the same class rooms. Over 1 million Arabs live in Israeli cities, so why can't settlers live on land which was purchased from an Arab? That is a major double standard and you have no right to demonize settlers when you don't know them or what they are really about. I dare you to go to Israel and speak with some of them, and the real ones... not the 0.001% that are loonies, which you have in every place by the way
3
. . . and the Palestinian bear no responsibility for any of the violence? As long as Palestinians remain driven by an arrogant, greedy, self-centered sense of entitlement to "all the land between the river (Jordan) and the sea (Mediterranean)," even refusing to recognize Israel within the 1949 "Green Line," then all of the land is disputed. Under any such "one to the exclusion of the other" scenario, Israel is equally entitled to build settlements anywhere in the captured territories. As the victorious belligerent of the 1967 "Six Day War," under International Law, Israel may retain captured land until possession is modified by treaty. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uti_possidetis
The post World War II occupations of West Germany (1945-1955) and East Germany (1945-1989), ended with peace treaties. When Palestinians are ready for peace and independent statehood, they can negotiate and end to this occupation, as did the Germans.
The post World War II occupations of West Germany (1945-1955) and East Germany (1945-1989), ended with peace treaties. When Palestinians are ready for peace and independent statehood, they can negotiate and end to this occupation, as did the Germans.
4
Sporting a dead end policy is not an invitation to homocide.
1
All this outrage from Israeli politicians is fake. Of course, these Jewish terrorists feel emboldened. Netanyahu was easily reelected and which indicates Israelis approve of his leadership. And Netanyahu is busy stealing Palestian land and approving construction of these illegal buildings. Plus, Netanyahu taken no steps to stop these terrorists' increasingly violent and murderous attacks on Palestinians.
What is interesting is that NY Times has quickly given this attack space on the front page and allowed comments. It shows me that Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians' attacks on President Obama are turning their traditional supporters against them.
What is interesting is that NY Times has quickly given this attack space on the front page and allowed comments. It shows me that Netanyahu and other Israeli politicians' attacks on President Obama are turning their traditional supporters against them.
82
"All this outrage from Israeli politicians is fake."
If the Israeli politicians weren't expressing outrage, what would you be saying? "Where is the outrage from Israeli politicians" maybe?
If the Israeli politicians weren't expressing outrage, what would you be saying? "Where is the outrage from Israeli politicians" maybe?
10
The proof will be in what Israel actually does to bring these criminals to justice. Will they be treated the same as if they were Palestinians? We'll see.
2
The minister of settlers Ayelet Shaked is responsible. She must resign or be resigned. In no other country such a minister can stay in office. All the Netanyahu government is responsible. Ayelet Shaked wrote to her settlers inciting them to kill every "little snake", every Palestinian child: "The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."
99
You have a cite for this?
I went looking and found this:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Exposing-militant-leftis...
I went looking and found this:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Exposing-militant-leftis...
3
As an American and a Jew, I am so disgusted by the right wing Israeli's conduct. As an American, I demand that we stop sending our tax dollars to support a terrorist government.
10
Ayelet Shaked is an embarrassment and should resign.
3
When the three yeshiva students were killed last summer, the Israeli government used their murder as pretext to break the truce that had been holding with Hamas, and then when Hamas resumed firing rockets, Israel launched a large military operation that killed hundreds of women and children. Now if stateless Palestinians launch any reprisals, they risk incurring further military wrath. This situation is preposterously untenable and a serious crackdown on Jewish extremists in absolutely necessary.
265
Actually, the murder of the three yeshiva students was the last straw. Thousands of rockets had been launched over a long time before the murders without any Israeli reatliation. Let's stick to facts please.
9
Facts? More that 2,200 dead in Gaza, more that 550 children. Are not facts these? What else do you want for establishing who (Hamas or the Israeli army, ergo the Israeli colonial state) is the mass murderer, the criminal, the industrial terrorist?
7
The family homes of the killers of the yeshiva students were bulldozed. What happened to the homes of the settlers who burned the Palestinians in revenge?
5
They are jewish terrorists whose conduct should be addressed the same as any other terrorist group. If they really want to defend Israel, they should be in the IDF and serve the nation, not their own sense of vengeance. There is no excuse for this and the murder of a child (or anyone). Peace will only come from peace. Israel has the upper hand and needs to make smart decisions that benefit their neighbors, because that will benefit them.
47
This was a heinous act and is deservedly condemned by everyone from Palestinians to Israels government officials to NYT commenters. The victimization of a young innocent is unforgivable, and I believe everyone concurs with this.
At the same time, I have a question: it is posited that this attack was a retaliation for the unprovoked fatal shooting of a college student as reported in the NYT on June 30. Yet this article is a full-length front-page story, complete with interviews of outraged relatives and emotional photos. Yet the report about the equally innocent student victim was buried on page 12 and consisted of one sentence, followed by an immediate reference to Israeli violence. Why did that report not include background on the victim and images of grieving relatives? Does this represnt balanced coverage of a nuanced issue?
At the same time, I have a question: it is posited that this attack was a retaliation for the unprovoked fatal shooting of a college student as reported in the NYT on June 30. Yet this article is a full-length front-page story, complete with interviews of outraged relatives and emotional photos. Yet the report about the equally innocent student victim was buried on page 12 and consisted of one sentence, followed by an immediate reference to Israeli violence. Why did that report not include background on the victim and images of grieving relatives? Does this represnt balanced coverage of a nuanced issue?
17
The Middle East is a very volatile area to say the least. With the instability, money and bloodshed Israeli v. Palestinian conflict is causing. Money should be put aside to move the Palestinian people away from Palestine to another and better place in the world and give all that land to the Jews.
It would be much cheaper and more humane to all involved.
It would be much cheaper and more humane to all involved.
4
Read what you just wrote - "move the Palestinian people away from Palestine." You are talking about removing them from their home - what Israel, with its policy of settlements and state-sponsored harassment, has been trying to do for years. Your comment is deplorable.
33
Or perhaps the other option would be to move the Israelis "away from Palestine to another and better place in the world" and give all the land (back) to the Palestinians!
32
Since European (not native) Jews were moved into Palestine and ousted Palestinians living there, wouldn't it be more reasonable to resettle those European Jews and their progeny in another space?
17
Arson is defined br Ebster as : : the illegal burning of a building or other property : the crime of setting fire to something.
Do we call it 'arson' when one tries to burn people alive in the middle of the night?
Do we call it 'arson' when one tries to burn people alive in the middle of the night?
72
Yes. Arson differentiates it from accident (an electrical appliance malfunctioning) or act of God (lightning). It can be both arson and murder, if someone is killed.
2
Yes, but as others have noted, Arson doesn't go far enough. Terrorism is what this was, or at least a "hate crime".
4
Who will pay this price tag?
8
My deepest condolences to this child's parents and brother, as well as to their community. There is no violent solution when children deserve to grow up in peace.
15
Why are Israeli called "arsonist", but Palestinian are called "Terrorist".
Is not burning the house of someone you hate to kill people inside considerer terror?
Words matter
Is not burning the house of someone you hate to kill people inside considerer terror?
Words matter
155
You are absolutely correct and the head "terrorist" is none other than Netanyahu, who should never have been re-elected and should certainly stay away from our Congress!
27
Perhaps you and your fellow "recommenders" should read a news article before you comment on it. Here is what Netanyahu (not one of my favorite people) said, as quoted in this news article that you complain about. "“We are shocked by it, we condemn it fully, the entire Israeli government and all the citizens of Israel. We decry it as a terrorist crime. Terrorism is terrorism. We need to fight it every place it comes from. We will capture these murderers. We will use all the tools at our disposal to bring them to justice and to see justice served to them.” What part of this official statement do you fail to understand?
9
“Terror is terror is terror,” Bennett added. “The torching of the house in Duma and the murder of the baby is a shocking terror attack that is unfathomable.”
Yesh Atid’s Yair Lapid called it an act of war and treason. “We’re at war. He who burns a Palestinian baby declares war on the State of Israel. He who stabs young people on a Pride March declares war on the State of Israel. He who burns down a church declares war on the State of Israel. He who threatens to attack the Supreme Court with a D9 bulldozer declares war on the State of Israel. He who throws rocks at the security services declares war on the State of Israel. The members of ‘Lehava’ are traitors who assist the enemy at a time of war. The young people who attacked Arabs in Jerusalem, traitors. Anyone who chants ‘Death to the Arabs’ at a Beitar Jerusalem match, a traitor to our homeland,”… This time the enemy is from here, from inside, from within us. They are a fifth column. They are the natural partners of Hamas, of Hezbollah, of ISIS. They look like us but they aren’t like us. They are traitors to all that is sacred to us, traitors to the very idea on which the State of Israel was founded, traitors to Judaism. And they’re trying – like the enemy always tries – to destroy the State of Israel… We’re at war. For the future, for Zionism, for our existence. Like in every one of Israel’s wars we cannot afford to lose.”
Where is Abbas comments when a Palestinian attacks and murders Jews?
Yesh Atid’s Yair Lapid called it an act of war and treason. “We’re at war. He who burns a Palestinian baby declares war on the State of Israel. He who stabs young people on a Pride March declares war on the State of Israel. He who burns down a church declares war on the State of Israel. He who threatens to attack the Supreme Court with a D9 bulldozer declares war on the State of Israel. He who throws rocks at the security services declares war on the State of Israel. The members of ‘Lehava’ are traitors who assist the enemy at a time of war. The young people who attacked Arabs in Jerusalem, traitors. Anyone who chants ‘Death to the Arabs’ at a Beitar Jerusalem match, a traitor to our homeland,”… This time the enemy is from here, from inside, from within us. They are a fifth column. They are the natural partners of Hamas, of Hezbollah, of ISIS. They look like us but they aren’t like us. They are traitors to all that is sacred to us, traitors to the very idea on which the State of Israel was founded, traitors to Judaism. And they’re trying – like the enemy always tries – to destroy the State of Israel… We’re at war. For the future, for Zionism, for our existence. Like in every one of Israel’s wars we cannot afford to lose.”
Where is Abbas comments when a Palestinian attacks and murders Jews?
4
One can find a murderous lunatic fringe in many societies, whether under the Palestinian, Israeli, Russian, Confederate, ISIS or some other flag or symbol. The idiot subculture that supports them is the problem to deal with. It's sad that, for whatever political and strategic reasons, the Israeli government has encouraged so many rigidly ultra-orthodox irredentists to make the West Bank very much their own preserve, in direct consequence of which a subculture of irrational, fundamentalist hate and violence that under the cloak or true orthodox piety is too often allowed to go unacknowledged and unpunished. No matter what its supposed provocations, it is a mockery and travesty of real piety and of Jewish teaching. Shame on the short-sighted practitioners of realpolitik who feed the corruption of their own nation.
36
As a Jew and a big supporter of Israel, this is a terror attack plain and simple and the perpetrators should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. And yes, anti-terror penalties should absolutely apply.
240
I agree with you. That purported search for justice should include demolishing the attackers' homes, revoking their Israeli citizenships, placing attachments/liens on their finances to make reparations to the victim's family and outlawing & prosecuting these Settler/terrorist movements because they are a huge threat to what is erroneously referred to as being "The only democracy in the Middle East." However, experience has shown that when the smoke clears and the perps are found, NO Justice will be dispensed-inspite of the PM's claims to seek it on behalf of the state and the victims.
10
However, they never are. They are photographed and then released.
Often their brutality upon shepherders, children and elderly are silently watched by soldiers standing to protect these brutes. I've met with B'Tselem and viewed countless videos the brutal beatings and more.
Often their brutality upon shepherders, children and elderly are silently watched by soldiers standing to protect these brutes. I've met with B'Tselem and viewed countless videos the brutal beatings and more.
11
As a Pro Israel, Pro Jewish Christian I fully agree. Terrorism is terrorism no matter who perpetrates it. The Jews who did this should be prosecuted to the fullest extant of the law.
2
Israel has turned into the abomination that they themselves claim to hate.
Israel has been able to carry out these abominations because of the support of the US gives.
As an American and a jewish person--I am deeply ashamed for what Israel and the US has become--pariahs in the world.
Israel has been able to carry out these abominations because of the support of the US gives.
As an American and a jewish person--I am deeply ashamed for what Israel and the US has become--pariahs in the world.
132
There have been numerous acts of terror and mass murder committed on U.S. soil by Americans in the name of either White supremacism or Islam. According to your logic, we would then say:
'The United States has turned into the abomination they themselves claim to hate. The United States has been able to carry out the attacks because of the support of the U.S. tax payer'.
In your mind, apparently, a bunch of Jewish settler terrorists are "Israel". Therefore, Dylann Roof, the Boston Bombers and the TX Military doctor are "The United States". Every times an American commits terrorism or mass murder, we should say: The United States carries out these acts of terror. Right?
'The United States has turned into the abomination they themselves claim to hate. The United States has been able to carry out the attacks because of the support of the U.S. tax payer'.
In your mind, apparently, a bunch of Jewish settler terrorists are "Israel". Therefore, Dylann Roof, the Boston Bombers and the TX Military doctor are "The United States". Every times an American commits terrorism or mass murder, we should say: The United States carries out these acts of terror. Right?
4
You seem a little overwrought in your mortification. Would you condemn all of American Jewry for the crimes of Bernie Madoff? If not, then how does the horrific terrorist act of a single or even a handful of Israelis turn that nation into an "abomination?" And this act was committed by individual(s) and not by the State of Israel, all of whose senior officials---as well as it's citizenry--- have condemned it. And any "pariah" status of Israel has much more to do with its Jewish identity than the acts it performs to defend it's citizens from organization dedicated to its destruction.
And lastly, when did America become a pariah in the world? I don't watch Fox News (or Democracy Now, I'm guessing) so I may have missed the vote.
And lastly, when did America become a pariah in the world? I don't watch Fox News (or Democracy Now, I'm guessing) so I may have missed the vote.
4
It is interesting that Saeb Erekat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and in an earlier version of this article, I believe the chief of Israeli security, or the army, were all quoted as stating this was a terrorist act, and yet, the NYT seems to tiptoe around that designation by labeling the perpetrators as “arsonist” or “extremist”. Why the reluctance and double standard? It will be interesting to see if the family homes of these Jewish terrorists will be demolished.
178
"Duma, a village of boxy, concrete homes that is reachable only by rocky mountain roads, is very close to Shilo, a settlement near which Malachi Rosenfeld, 26, was fatally shot by Palestinian militants a month ago".
So more a curious standard than a double standard?
So more a curious standard than a double standard?
1
It is time to make peace. The illegal settlements should be dismantled. Palestinians who were driven out of their homes should either be allowed to return, or should be given reparations. After all, wasn't Israel partially built on reparations from Germany?
I speak as an American Jew. And speaking just as an American, I am perfectly willing to pay additional taxes to provide reparations to Native Americans. I am not willing to pay taxes to provide billions of dollars in arms sales to the Netanyahu regime, the Saudis, the Gulf State monarchs, or the el-Sisi regime...
I speak as an American Jew. And speaking just as an American, I am perfectly willing to pay additional taxes to provide reparations to Native Americans. I am not willing to pay taxes to provide billions of dollars in arms sales to the Netanyahu regime, the Saudis, the Gulf State monarchs, or the el-Sisi regime...
125
There have always been a small Jewish presence in Israel for the last 2,000 years. Arabs living in Israel were actually merchants from other Arab countries and settled not long ago in Israel since it was a central location for business. This does not make it their country, they never even wanted one before Israel came along. Arabs in the West Bank are Jordanian workers Israel brought in the early 1900's to help build communities ( why is it called the West Bank when it's on the East side of Israel? Because it's the West Bank of Jordan). Same with Gaza, they are from Egypt. They admit their routes are Egyptian and have Egyptian customs. Arafat, was born and raised in Egypt, studied there, and came to Israel as an adult. The Arabs started the war, they lost the war, Israel captured land in this time yet gave it back for peace. Since when does the looser get to dictate the terms? Except for Morrocan Jews, all the other Middle Eastern Jews were oppressed in their countries (before there was even a state of Israel, so no excuse) and they fled to Israel. Their farms and land that was taken from them today estimates at about $50 billion. Why isn't anyone angered over that? And I don't understand how someone can be a refugee when they are 4th generation born in a country. Fourth generation born in Lebanon.. you are Lebanese. Same with the other countries
4
According to an article I read in Jerusalem Post yesterday, American Jewish groups wrote a letter to Pope Francis asking him to persuade German government to give more money to holocaust survivors. Apparently they gave $70 Billion to date, including $4 billion in the last 5 years, but holocaust survivors are apparently living in poverty.
US Government, including many state governments, give extra compensation to holocaust survivors, but no such privilege to descendants Jim Crow. US Government also steps in to pressure Europeans whenever possible on behalf of holocaust survivors. After all, they are the only victims of genocide ever in the history of mankind.
Don't hold your breath for compensation to Palestinians or return of their assets.
US Government, including many state governments, give extra compensation to holocaust survivors, but no such privilege to descendants Jim Crow. US Government also steps in to pressure Europeans whenever possible on behalf of holocaust survivors. After all, they are the only victims of genocide ever in the history of mankind.
Don't hold your breath for compensation to Palestinians or return of their assets.
6
Very well said Martha, and more people like you will make a better world possible for all of us.
I understand the call for equal treatment of Israeli and Palestinian terrorists. That said, destroying the homes of the Israeli terrorists would be as wrong as it s wrong to punish the families of Palestinian terrorists. And two wrongs do not make one right. People should not pay the price for the actions of a relative (unless they are proven to be accomplices). This is an abhorrent concept of justice that has been introduced by the Israeli judicial authorities. As is the case for the other shameful idea of making torture legitimate with the "ticking bomb" argument. These practices should simply be abolished and banned from the face of the earth rather than applying them to more cases.
97
Arab terrorists usually do not serve their full time because they always released in prisoner deals.
Jewish people who commits violent crime against Arabs serve their full sentences.
Yes. Equality.
Jewish people who commits violent crime against Arabs serve their full sentences.
Yes. Equality.
8
Max67, what sentence the Jewish terrorists who burned the Jerusalem teen alive were given or serving? It's been over a year, are they in jail or house arrest or roaming the streets?
5
The point of calling for bulldozing the suspects' homes IS precisely to dramatize the absurdity of a professedly democratic state's policies of confiscation and attainder towards suspects and their families.
7
That is the second despicable act by a radical group of Jews in the last few days in Israel (The first being the stabbings at the Gay Pride Parade). It is time that Jews around the world stand up and say that this is not our form of Judaism and that is not the way we treat fellow human beings. The people who killed this innocent child must be captured and given harsh (life imprisonment, no parole??) sentences and it must be made clear that this behavior is wrong and will not be accepted. Finally, and most importantly, I think this shows that is is time to make peace with the Palestinians and do the right thing over there. When Israel starts losing the support of Jews like me (which is starting to happen), i think they have a crisis on their hands.
462
I agree with your wholeheartedly. I have a dual citizenship (American and Israeli) and I live in the United States. Some days I don't recognize my own country. Who are these hateful people, so hell-bent on revenge? We Israelis used to talk about peace and respect, but in the last five years I see fear and hatred taking over.
29
Virtually every Jewish organization from the left to the right has made statements in the last 48 hours regarding both attacks and all have denounced it. Perhaps you aren't looking in the right places, but there are absolutely no Jewish or Israeli groups that I have found that have released positive statements or no statement regarding these attacks.
12
Jews like me have been protesting these human rights abuses since Amnesty International and B'Tselem started reporting them decades ago.
The Israeli response has been to call us anti-semitic Jews, to brazenly deny the facts, and to continue with the killings.
It's time to move on to boycotts, divestment and sanctions. That's the only thing that will get their attention.
We should put a "price tag" on Israeli human rights abuses.
The Israeli response has been to call us anti-semitic Jews, to brazenly deny the facts, and to continue with the killings.
It's time to move on to boycotts, divestment and sanctions. That's the only thing that will get their attention.
We should put a "price tag" on Israeli human rights abuses.
17
Does a Palestinian victim have to be an infant for the NYT to mourn their death?The people who did this should be called "terrorists," though that is a word that the NYT never seems to use when the perpetrators turn out to be Jewish. The occupation and colonization of Palestinian is only possible because of violence. But most of the violence is so ordinary and widespread that the NYT doesn't even report it. For many years, Palestinian children have suffered disproportionately from Israel terror attacks. This violence against Palestinian children is not an accident and enjoys the active and tacit approval of Americans whose tax dollars bankroll the settlements and occupation army.
254
Actually, attacks such as this are far and few in between compared to the everyday "smaller" attacks committed by Arabs such as throwing rocks or Molotov cocktails at passing cars.
And I don't think you need to NYT to call them terrorists. They are terrorists. Prime Minister Netanyahu as well as all members of the Israeli government have come out and called the perpetrators of this despicable act terrorists. That's something you will never see from PA or Hamas leadership.
And I don't think you need to NYT to call them terrorists. They are terrorists. Prime Minister Netanyahu as well as all members of the Israeli government have come out and called the perpetrators of this despicable act terrorists. That's something you will never see from PA or Hamas leadership.
4
Actually, the NY Times generally refers to Palestinian terrorists as militants. No need to be too upset at the use of the "T" word.
2
I 99% agree with you on sentiment, Gideon - but as a Jew who is repulsed by Israel's racist policies, I am tired of seeing "Israeli" and "Jewish" used interchangeably, any more than I am comfortable seeing "Palestinian" and "Islamic" or "Muslim" used in the same way.
These murderers - even if they do it in the name of their religion - don't have anything in common with the Jewish people I know. Nor do most Israelis.
These murderers - even if they do it in the name of their religion - don't have anything in common with the Jewish people I know. Nor do most Israelis.
29
This is horrible, and and the Israeli government needs to come down hard on the settlers who commit these price tag attacks. All of them. The Israeli settlements have been a major problem for too long. They are in the way of peace and need to be demolished. Despite what some think, many Israelis and American Jews feel this way.
I'd like to add, considering how increasingly anti Israel the NYT has been (subtle ways- clickbait headlines, selective reporting, etc), I'm actually surprised this article included Israeli condemnations of the attacks.
I'd like to add, considering how increasingly anti Israel the NYT has been (subtle ways- clickbait headlines, selective reporting, etc), I'm actually surprised this article included Israeli condemnations of the attacks.
16
They need to identify the perpetrators before we go off the rails blaming anyone. This could have been the act of an Israeli terrorist. It could also be a false-flag operation. Let's wait and see.
6
Given the frequency of "price tag" attacks in the last few years, it's hardly "off the rails" to suggest that an attack like this is what it appears to be. You'll notice that even the Jewish Home party isn't suggesting a false-flag operation.
19
Laura, it is amazing that you would suggest that the arson and murder of the child was an act perpetrated by Palestinians in order to blame the Israelis. Do you also believe that the attacks on Jews are false flag operations by other Jews?
22
Wow. The poor Palestinians not only have to deal with having their land stolen, and being tortured/killed in the process, they have to deal with sick thinking/justifications like this. Disgusting. This has been happening for years, not that NYT readers would know. https://peacenow.org/entry.php?id=1077#.VbubZrVc_a8
19
The fundamentalists are the problem -- no matter the religion. Why the State of Israel allows itself to be controlled by the ultra Orthodox is a mystery -- they DO NOT represent the majority of Jews worldwide nor even Israelis.
140
Wrong. It is the state of Israel that created the problem. The radical Jews are merely the foot soldiers in Israel's dirty war of terror against the Palestinians. The State of Israel bulldozes Palestinian houses. destroys Palestinian business and incarcerates Palestinian family members in retribution for one family member being involved in attacks against Israel. It openly encourages the radical Jews to invade the West Bank to insure that it will never be a Palestinian state. Never forget the American woman who was killed by the Israelis when she tried to stop a bulldozer from destroying a Palestinian home.
31
Given that one can buy pork in Israel, Vivian, and that a gay pride parade was held not just in Tel Aviv, but in Jerusalem, I'd say that the ultra-orthodox certainly do not control Israel in any sense. And plenty of centrists Israelis resent them for not serving in the IDF.
1
Vivian, the people who are performing these acts are the problem. Most Orthodox Jews and most Muslims are just people trying to go about their lives. Religion isn't the problem. People who want to perpetrate evil are the problem.
2
Why the reluctance to identify these people as what they are? They aren't "arsonists", they are Israeli terrorists.
294
The Israeli government has explicitly stated that this was an act of terrorism and pledged to find the person(s) responsible. I'm not sure why the NYT wouldn't refer to it as such if all parties involve do.
8
Not just arsonists but murderers.
5
Because the often do not call Palestinian murderers terrorists either. Generally, Palestinian murderers are referred to as "militants." Even this article uses the term "militants."
6
"Palestinians and their supporters questioned whether the perpetrators would be treated similarly to Palestinians who kill Israelis – whether, for example, their family homes would be demolished."
Being a Jewish person in America who supports Israel, I too want to know how the Israeli government is going to treat the perpetrators and their families.
Being a Jewish person in America who supports Israel, I too want to know how the Israeli government is going to treat the perpetrators and their families.
167
Yeah. The perpetrators should have be in jail for life.
6
Perhaps you didn't read the article?
5
Or perhaps you didn't. Erdan said the case was being given top priority and implied that there would be prison time, but that is not a definite course of action and doesn't say anything about how the offenders' homes and families will be affected.
17
I am curious what how when an arsonist is a terrorist and when a terrorist is an arsonist?
168
Simple, arsonists burn down buildings, terrorists burn down homes while the people are still inside of them. Clear enough for you now?
52
It's not either-or. The offenders are absolutely arsonists (and terrorists in my opinion). But the legal definition of terrorism has not always been agreed upon.
Not the best source, but it's a start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism
Not the best source, but it's a start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_terrorism
4
To me, a terrorist has an agenda of spreading fear. This person burned a house down with children inside it to make Palestinians afraid and perhaps leave the West Bank.
30