The most important thing for incredulous, trusting, dismissive white people to learn from this incident is something that black people have known for a long time: police will lie, they will lie for each other, and what they put down on the report isn't necessarily what happened.
12
Some of the comments here suggest that Dubose started to pull away before he was shot. The video doesn't show his foot on the gas pedal. It shows Tensing starting to open the car door; Dubose pulling it shut while reaching for the ignition. Tensing shoots him in the head. Anybody shot in the head is unlikely to have control over his vehicle. Clearly the car rolled down the street. The University of Cincinnati and the Prosecutors office have viewed the unedited version of the video and say that Tensing fell backwards after firing. He was not dragged and not run over. He lied in order to justify this murder, and other cops lied for him.
7
My heart goes out to all the families who have lost loved ones here. In my beautiful country, if this gentleman had been pulled over he would have been given an on the spot breathalyser. If he was under under 0.05 he would have been given a fine for the number plate offence, and given 24 hours to produce his licence to the nearest police station and that would also carry a fine. If he was over 0.05, he would have been taken to the station for a secondary reading, from there his licence information could be validated, and then sent home.
3
According to the Cincinatti Inquirer, prosecutor Deiters told them tonight that the officer who was at the scene and indicated in the video that he had seen the cop being dragged, testified under oath to the Grand Jury that he did not actually see anything.
6
In my classroom, I am no longer going to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. During sporting events I am no longer going to sing the Star Spangled banner.
America is no longer the land of the free nor the home of the brave.
I am going to cite the Lord's Prayer in their place.
America is no longer the land of the free nor the home of the brave.
I am going to cite the Lord's Prayer in their place.
10
From the video, it seems like Mr. DuBose started the car and put it in drive as the officer reached for the ignition key to shut the car off. Officer Tensing's arm was caught in the steering wheel and he shot Mr. DuBose because he feared being dragged (to his death or serious injury). The car had to have been in drive when he was shot because how else would the car get down the street if it was in park and somehow get into drive AFTER Mr. DuBose had been shot in the head? So DuBose had to put the car in drive and was shot only after doing that when Officer Tensing's arm was caught in the steering wheel.
So I'm not so sure this is the clear case of murder the prosecutor and other commentators think. Officer Tensing may very well be acquitted at trial under a claim of self defense.
So I'm not so sure this is the clear case of murder the prosecutor and other commentators think. Officer Tensing may very well be acquitted at trial under a claim of self defense.
5
Nope. They watch the frame by frame available on YouTube. His arm was not on the steering wheel. His left arm was on Mr Dubois' chest. His right held the gun.
6
1) Tensing's left hand was on DuBose's shoulder belt as the car began to move. He had placed it there in an attempt to stop DuBose from moving his car. Tensing was not dragged nor was there any possibly he would be.
2) During the entire encounter, DuBose was polite and compliant. When Tensing shot DuBose in the head, DuBose's arms were up in a defensive position. He was of absolutely no threat to Tensing, as Tensing knew.
It could not be more clear that this is a case of murder. Tensing summarily executed DuBose for the crime of starting his engine during a traffic stop.
Over and over and over we have seen how instinctively and reflexively police lie. Here, Tensing even knew he was being recorded, and still could not stop himself. My question to any police officer: Is lying taught at the police academy?
After so many of these incidents, every American has probable cause to believe that police lie whenever the hell it is convenient. Anyone who blindly believes the word of a police officer, in court or elsewhere, is an idiot.
Body cameras NOW.
2) During the entire encounter, DuBose was polite and compliant. When Tensing shot DuBose in the head, DuBose's arms were up in a defensive position. He was of absolutely no threat to Tensing, as Tensing knew.
It could not be more clear that this is a case of murder. Tensing summarily executed DuBose for the crime of starting his engine during a traffic stop.
Over and over and over we have seen how instinctively and reflexively police lie. Here, Tensing even knew he was being recorded, and still could not stop himself. My question to any police officer: Is lying taught at the police academy?
After so many of these incidents, every American has probable cause to believe that police lie whenever the hell it is convenient. Anyone who blindly believes the word of a police officer, in court or elsewhere, is an idiot.
Body cameras NOW.
7
Watch the video again frame by frame. Tensing does not have his arm in the steering wheel. Clearly shows him with his gun out and pointing at Mr. DuBose's head and firing at 1 minute 55 seconds into the video.
3
It's worth noting that simply starting the vehicle doesn't mean he was attempting to flee. The only reason he turned off the car in the first place was to unlock the glove box and retrieve the license plate. It's hardly a crime to have your vehicle idling during a traffic stop.
8
Let's just play out the hypothetical scenario where the driver flees the scene. The cop has the license plate number and knows the general area where the man lives. All he had to do was run the plates, find the registered address (said it was his wife/fiance's car), go to the house and arrest the man. God forbid a police officer would actually have to do some true police work. Could've sorted it out in an afternoon. This idea that every situation need to be resolved the second it occurs is insane and lead to equally insane behavior like this.
"Officers are trained not to reach into a car during a stop, specifically because of the risk of being dragged," said Seth W. Stoughton, a law school professor at the University of South Carolina and a former police officer.
“It’s called ‘officer-created jeopardy,’ and it puts them at more risk,” he said. “And then because they are at more risk, then to escape the situation they have to use more force than they should have used otherwise.”
And I think it's ridiculous that you can be charged with resisting arrest when there are no legitimate grounds for being arrested in the first place. Asking someone to step out of a vehicle is not the same thing a being under arrest.
"Officers are trained not to reach into a car during a stop, specifically because of the risk of being dragged," said Seth W. Stoughton, a law school professor at the University of South Carolina and a former police officer.
“It’s called ‘officer-created jeopardy,’ and it puts them at more risk,” he said. “And then because they are at more risk, then to escape the situation they have to use more force than they should have used otherwise.”
And I think it's ridiculous that you can be charged with resisting arrest when there are no legitimate grounds for being arrested in the first place. Asking someone to step out of a vehicle is not the same thing a being under arrest.
11
As the officer is standing next to the vehicle a manhole cover in the street can be seen approximately 30 feet in front of the vehicle and as the officer gets up from the street after firing his weapon the manhole cover can be seen clearly again and the officer is a little beyond this manhole cover in the street. He was drug approximately 30 feet down the street. The media should review this in more detail before ruining this officers life!!!!!!!
4
This video makes me literally sick. The officer seems to be trying to antagonize Mr. Dubose. Why couldn't Officer Tensing just have said, "I have to give you a citation," and be done with it. I live in a very diverse neighborhood and the cops (who are of all colors) take a more egalitarian approach so as not to escalate a problem. I've seen it work.
9
Right?! I've been stopped without a license. I've been stopped with expired tags. I suppose I could have been hauled in, but was I? Of course not. I got a ticket and I paid a fine. White people don't know how good they have it.
4
Quite frankly because Tensing wanted to show Mr. DuBose that he--Tensing--was in full control of the situation. And then he lied repeatedly after the other "police officers" arrived.
2
From the video (abbreviated) The officer indicates the car has no front plates (violation) and asks if this is the drivers car. The driver states, yes. The officer indicates that the car is registered to a woman. The driver of the vehicle states it is leased under his wife. The occupent of the vehicle has no ID. The occupant of the vehicle was acting somewhat strange and unresponsive. The occupent off the vehicle was asked to remove his seatbelt, (likely to next request that the driver exit the car so the officer can observe him when he returns to his vehicle to check the drivers name and license status). Instead of complying with the officer, he started his car and attempted to drive away. The policement appears to reach for the ignition with his left hand to turn off the car (poor judgement) while reaching for his firearm with his right, and panics as he realizes that the car is moving. The policemen fires one shot, which kills the non-comliant driver of the vehicle (not malicious nor his intent based upon my interpretation of the interaction up to this point). Up until the driver elected not to comply with the officers request, the interaction was peaceful and the officer showed no sign of malice or bias. This is tragic, but could have been avoided if the driver had simply complied with the officer. Murder no, tragic yes.
More evidence of my thesis that the rule of law has outlived any usefulness it may ever have had, and is now dragging America into a permanent culture of violence. Law enforcers are simply given more authority than anyone can handle without becoming thoroughly immoral and corrupt. We give cops the unholy "authority" to use as much force and violence they deem necessary in carrying out their "duties." It is long past time to get rid of the rule of law and the violence it entails. Violence begets only more violence and cannot serve to reduce it.
5
Not mentioned in the article is that the video is not clear about when the fatal shot was fired - everything seems to have happened within a few seconds. The car appears to move suddenly, the cop tumbles backwards, and we next see the cop's hand holding his pistol. But as the victim's mother says, this would have been yet another rubber stamped police shooting without the video. And more power to her as she vows to campaign for all police to have some sort of video monitoring. Here in Massachusetts, a supposed bastion of liberalism, collective bargaining rules prohibit virtually any video monitoring of the police. No one seems able to recall the last time, if ever, a cop was criminally charged for shooting an unarmed civilian in this state.
3
I think police abuse of citizens & detainees is going to unravel a lot like the priest abuse of children did. It's something society didn't want to believe was happening, so we made excuses for the perpetrators and gave them the benefit of the doubt, when we should have believed the victims more.
Of course the truly evil priests were a minority. The real problem was the culture of silence among their colleagues and superiors who should have known or might have suspected that bad things were happening but chose to do nothing.
Police work is difficult and necessary. We should not engage in wholesale cop-bashing, but we do need to stop and ask "What is *really* going on here?"
Of course the truly evil priests were a minority. The real problem was the culture of silence among their colleagues and superiors who should have known or might have suspected that bad things were happening but chose to do nothing.
Police work is difficult and necessary. We should not engage in wholesale cop-bashing, but we do need to stop and ask "What is *really* going on here?"
10
Black men have become disposable. The entire Cincinnati police force needs review. Why didn't any of the police men who appeared on the scene check on Samuel Dubose -- the man who was shot in the head bleeding in his car to see if he needed help? Or to see if he needed some compassion while he lay there dying. Not ONE cop checked on him. This is a prime example of what a soul-less and racist police force looks like -- one of many in America. Did anyone know whether Samuel was dead or alive? Clearly not one of the Cincinnati police officers thought a black man's life was worth saving. Every cop was so concerned if the upright white breathing and talking cop "was okay?" This is not what a post racial society looks like. This is a racist society where cops believe that black men are disposable.
11
It's clear that US police have a militarized response to almost all conflict and absolutely need to be trained otherwise. Guns are not the answer to conflict, as anyone in international relations will tell you.
11
No way the excuse or explain this shooting. The problem is everyone is calling him a POLICE OFFICER and lumping him in with actual trained officers who work within municipalities.
These University "officer" are little more then poorly trained security guards. The Universities have little or no standards for training or background checks. There are thousands of these University Police Forces and their actions should not be commingled with normal police agencies.
It is difficult enough for many Police forces to screen and train their officers to act appropriately without painting everyone who espouses to be a police officer as an actual trained officer.
Again his indictment and arrest is appropriate without it being a larger part of the narrative about police misconduct.
These University "officer" are little more then poorly trained security guards. The Universities have little or no standards for training or background checks. There are thousands of these University Police Forces and their actions should not be commingled with normal police agencies.
It is difficult enough for many Police forces to screen and train their officers to act appropriately without painting everyone who espouses to be a police officer as an actual trained officer.
Again his indictment and arrest is appropriate without it being a larger part of the narrative about police misconduct.
3
As a black man, I have never in my life trusted a cop because of things like this. A lot of these cops is out of their mind and should be harder for people to become a cop. Higher men that has a college degree or runs a business. If it's one thing I have notice through out my work like history, those that doesn't know what it feels like to have power will abuse the power they get and will continue to do so if that power is given. This is suppose to be America "the land of the free" not "the land where you fear". You could even increase a cops penalty for doing things like this, like give then a death sentence for killing another that is unarmed or give 15 years to those that take beyond force tactics against a citizen or whomever. As an a black American I don't feel save by no police or by the government of this country when the government is suppose to protect us from inner country war, because that's what this is. If this continues to be the way it has been going, another world war will begin in America it self...sad to say. I don't see nothing positive done for those that has lost their life from a cop that is always armed and dangerous. A suspension us not going to do it more needs to be done. Please! For those that believe this type of act is wrong no matter who it is black, white, indian, asian, I don't care. Please stand up and let it be known that the safety we thought would be safe isn't safe enough. Thank you
5
I'm a white man married to an East Indian woman, and my sons are of mixed race. I have been stopped several times in my lifetime for traffic violations and have never been afraid for my safety.
My son recently received his driver's license, and I found myself sitting down with him to explain how to behave and respond properly if he's ever pulled over.
Why did I do this? Only because I'm not sure what his race will be perceived to be by the officers involved, and I don't want any angsty teenage attitude to result in violence.
You may find that as ridiculous and frightening as I do, but clearly shown by the video was that officer's overwhelming willingness and readiness to pull and discharge his gun at another human being. I want to underline that: it happened so fast yet he was able to pull his gun, aim into the car, and shoot the man in the head after several minutes of calm interaction. He was more than ready to take that action.
What if my son reaches too quickly for the glove box, or makes some other mistake, or does or says something the officer doesn't like? For the first time in my life, in this country of all countries, am I afraid for my son's future interactions with the police.
My son recently received his driver's license, and I found myself sitting down with him to explain how to behave and respond properly if he's ever pulled over.
Why did I do this? Only because I'm not sure what his race will be perceived to be by the officers involved, and I don't want any angsty teenage attitude to result in violence.
You may find that as ridiculous and frightening as I do, but clearly shown by the video was that officer's overwhelming willingness and readiness to pull and discharge his gun at another human being. I want to underline that: it happened so fast yet he was able to pull his gun, aim into the car, and shoot the man in the head after several minutes of calm interaction. He was more than ready to take that action.
What if my son reaches too quickly for the glove box, or makes some other mistake, or does or says something the officer doesn't like? For the first time in my life, in this country of all countries, am I afraid for my son's future interactions with the police.
18
This is a great example of something that should never have happened. First of all, Officer Tensing should have been more aware of the camera strapped to his chest that was recording every bad move he was executing. The officer should have known that what he did would be recorded for the whole wide world to see. Another thing he should regret is making the move of even reaching for his gun in the first place. This was not a dangerous situation. Officer Tensing was no where close to being harmed up until shooting Mr. Dubose. What would make it even more heart-breaking is if the shooting was really related to the fact that Mr. Dubose was black.
I really wish Officer Tensing could have handled this situation differently. Clearly he was upset, but being the person of authority he could have used a different approach while coming into contact with Mr. Dubose. Murder was not the answer whatsoever. Yes, I feel the need to use the word murder. This was no accident. No one should look at this case and think of justice. Personally, I don't see any justice at all.
Stories like this do not make me feel protected by the police force. Officer Tensing was obviously not fit for this job. He made not a mistake, but the decision to take the life of a man who could have lived much more of his life. Mr.Dubose was talked to by an officer for a reason, but he was not killed for any good reason at all.
I really wish Officer Tensing could have handled this situation differently. Clearly he was upset, but being the person of authority he could have used a different approach while coming into contact with Mr. Dubose. Murder was not the answer whatsoever. Yes, I feel the need to use the word murder. This was no accident. No one should look at this case and think of justice. Personally, I don't see any justice at all.
Stories like this do not make me feel protected by the police force. Officer Tensing was obviously not fit for this job. He made not a mistake, but the decision to take the life of a man who could have lived much more of his life. Mr.Dubose was talked to by an officer for a reason, but he was not killed for any good reason at all.
2
From watching the video I can't make out whether he was involuntarily "dragged" or not. If the arm of the officer was trapped inside the vehicle and he could not get it out, then I could conceivably see that he considered himself in danger. From the video it does not seem to be such a clear-cut case of murder as the DA is making it sound.
What is clear is that this should never have escalated to the point where the officer is drawing his weapon. The overall situation did not warrant to risk progressing toward the use of lethal force.
The maximum I would consider as a jury here is voluntary manslaughter. Certainly not murder.
All that said, I find it disgusting how often the police in the US fire their weapons on duty. Something really has to change in their training. In a situation like this one where no other firearm is involved, no police officer in Europe would ever draw his gun, let alone fire it. He would be dismissed immediately and held criminally and civilly liable for any injuries or death.
The officer had the license plate number, so where did the driver plan to escape to? Just track him down and arrest him at home then.
What is clear is that this should never have escalated to the point where the officer is drawing his weapon. The overall situation did not warrant to risk progressing toward the use of lethal force.
The maximum I would consider as a jury here is voluntary manslaughter. Certainly not murder.
All that said, I find it disgusting how often the police in the US fire their weapons on duty. Something really has to change in their training. In a situation like this one where no other firearm is involved, no police officer in Europe would ever draw his gun, let alone fire it. He would be dismissed immediately and held criminally and civilly liable for any injuries or death.
The officer had the license plate number, so where did the driver plan to escape to? Just track him down and arrest him at home then.
5
His arm was not trapped. You can clearly see the officer holding Mr. Dubose by the front of his shirt while he fired the shot into his head. It would not have been difficult to simply let go. And officers are trained not to reach into vehicles during stops. Poor training may have been the reason but it certainly is not an excuse.
6
Exactly. He had on hand on the victims chest. The other held the gun. Try watching the frame by frame available on YouTube. It's very clear. He was NOT DRAGGED. Indeed in a statement in support of the officers who claim they saw the officer dragged the U Cincinnati FOP tacitly admit the same, arguing that while the slow-motion clearly indicates that he was not dragged it was hard for officers on the scene to tell.
6
This so called trivial traffic stops escalated because the driver didn't do what is asked of him. I think it is required that one have a valid driver's license in their possession to drive a car in most states, including Ohio. The person could simply have forgotten their driver's license or they may not have a valid driver's license at all. It is a judgment call as to what to do when a police officer stops someone and they can't produce a valid driver's license. In this case the officer decided to ask the man to step out of his car probably because of two other possible infractions and he wanted to check with dispatcher to identify the driver. The other infractions were Gin bottle that may indicate the driver was drinking and no front license displayed as required. It appears the dead guy tried to start his car when the officer tried to get him out of his car. Starting a car that is not running while talking to a police officer in a traffic stop situation is an indication that you are about to drive away, especially if the officer is on foot. Calling what happened murder without considering what we know is way out of line and meant to appease a potentially dangerous crowd.
4
You seem to have described what we know, and yes, this is what's called murder. I try to empathize with police officers who are in danger, or who have reasonable cause to consider themselves in danger.
That's not what was going on here. What happened here is terrifying, and it's not something that I can understand. It feels like someone who can't stand to be disrespected...and has a gun.
This is so sad.
That's not what was going on here. What happened here is terrifying, and it's not something that I can understand. It feels like someone who can't stand to be disrespected...and has a gun.
This is so sad.
6
David,
Murder requires the intent to kill someone. I don't see from the video that that intent had time to develop. What I saw was a rapidly escalating situation that got out of control with the officer making a snap decision of using his gun to stop the offender, in this case the victim trying to escape. I don't think that how the situation leading up to the shooting has developed the prosecutor will be able to prove the intent to kill. IMO this is a clear case of unjustified voluntary manslaughter, not murder. However, for the victim that's only a technicality that makes no difference to the outcome.
One way or another, our police suffers from 'loose cannon syndrome'. And that has to change.
Murder requires the intent to kill someone. I don't see from the video that that intent had time to develop. What I saw was a rapidly escalating situation that got out of control with the officer making a snap decision of using his gun to stop the offender, in this case the victim trying to escape. I don't think that how the situation leading up to the shooting has developed the prosecutor will be able to prove the intent to kill. IMO this is a clear case of unjustified voluntary manslaughter, not murder. However, for the victim that's only a technicality that makes no difference to the outcome.
One way or another, our police suffers from 'loose cannon syndrome'. And that has to change.
4
People talk about more "training" of officers, and of course good training is essential for many difficult circumstances. But good training has no doubt gone the way of a great many other reduced services of society. Most cities and states are half-broke all the time. They are broke because the corporate class pays little or no taxes, and we must lay these terrible happenings at the door of the racist and classist oligarchy that rules the country.
Drivers and many other citizens are in sad shape all over the U. S. landscape and sometimes not mentally together. Put this fact alongside officers without enough help and training -- and this is what we have in the death of Sam Dubose and the loss of his freedom, possibly for the rest of his life, by Ray Tensing.
Drivers and many other citizens are in sad shape all over the U. S. landscape and sometimes not mentally together. Put this fact alongside officers without enough help and training -- and this is what we have in the death of Sam Dubose and the loss of his freedom, possibly for the rest of his life, by Ray Tensing.
4
Help me out here. From where does a university get the authority to have armed police officers of their own, and who certifies or qualifies these for service? It's a bit different that a museum guard.
3
"University of Cincinnati Officer Indicted in Shooting Death of Samuel Dubose"
JULY 29, 2015
RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA
http://nyti.ms/1I23fN1
Another tragedy involving a black man took place when an officer fatally shot Samuel Dubose during a traffic stop. Joseph T. Deters, a prosecuting attorney, says that "Mr. Dubose did not act aggressively or pose a threat to Officer Ray Tensing, and that Officer Tensing had lied about being dragged by Mr. Dubose’s car." This brings me to the point about police officers abusing their power. This man was unarmed and stopped for no apparent reason but a "minor" traffic stop. According to Mr. Deters, "“I think he lost his temper because Mr. Dubose wouldn’t get out of his car.” Really, Is that a valid excuse to take some innocent persons life? It sounds like Tensing needs to attend anger management because he has a short fuse. Mr. Perez-Pena mentions that this "joined a string of recent cases — in places including Staten Island; Cleveland; Baltimore; North Charleston, S.C.; and Ferguson, Mo., among others — that have raised hard questions about law enforcement’s use of force and the role of race in policing." At least there is clear evidence courtesy of a body camera worn by Tensing the day of the shooting. Audrey Dubose, Samuel's mother openly said that she's willing to forgive Tensing. Now the officer did turn himself in to authorities, which led to his firing. It seems like every time the US progresses, a tragic event reminds us of our past.
JULY 29, 2015
RICHARD PÉREZ-PEÑA
http://nyti.ms/1I23fN1
Another tragedy involving a black man took place when an officer fatally shot Samuel Dubose during a traffic stop. Joseph T. Deters, a prosecuting attorney, says that "Mr. Dubose did not act aggressively or pose a threat to Officer Ray Tensing, and that Officer Tensing had lied about being dragged by Mr. Dubose’s car." This brings me to the point about police officers abusing their power. This man was unarmed and stopped for no apparent reason but a "minor" traffic stop. According to Mr. Deters, "“I think he lost his temper because Mr. Dubose wouldn’t get out of his car.” Really, Is that a valid excuse to take some innocent persons life? It sounds like Tensing needs to attend anger management because he has a short fuse. Mr. Perez-Pena mentions that this "joined a string of recent cases — in places including Staten Island; Cleveland; Baltimore; North Charleston, S.C.; and Ferguson, Mo., among others — that have raised hard questions about law enforcement’s use of force and the role of race in policing." At least there is clear evidence courtesy of a body camera worn by Tensing the day of the shooting. Audrey Dubose, Samuel's mother openly said that she's willing to forgive Tensing. Now the officer did turn himself in to authorities, which led to his firing. It seems like every time the US progresses, a tragic event reminds us of our past.
No threat to the officer's life. Nothing more than some minor problems like a missing license plate and no driver's license at hand. How could anyone think that it was necessary to draw a firearm in that situation?
The pattern we see over and over again is one that begins with these kinds of trivial issues that suddenly escalate and an unarmed and inoffensive citizen is gunned down, then come the lies to try to justify the killing. Bring on more video cameras. Unlike cops, they don't lie.
The pattern we see over and over again is one that begins with these kinds of trivial issues that suddenly escalate and an unarmed and inoffensive citizen is gunned down, then come the lies to try to justify the killing. Bring on more video cameras. Unlike cops, they don't lie.
4
I'm not buying this whole "be polite" argument at all. This is a bigger issue than manners. Since when does not being polite mean that you deserve to be shot? Police are trained to handle a number of high stress situations & are also trained in multiple de-escalation techniques. Rudeness is very low on the stress scale. Rude people can be annoying & frustrating but it doesn't mean that you pull out your gun & it certainly doesn't warrant shooting someone!
Let's talk about "rudeness". What most people don't understand is that if every interaction you've ever had with law enforcement results harsh treatment, fines and jail time, you may have a serious mistrust of those in law enforcement. The system does not & will not ever work in your favour. While a $50 ticket is inconsequential to those with the ability to pay for some people, it could means court time, jail time, job loss and eventual financial ruin. If mistrust is what you know and see, would you be cooperative? Would you be polite?
I think we can all agree that regardless of race, age, gender and profession, we should all aim to handle ourselves better in public but I want people to realize that for some people - low income, black people in particular - comportment will not save you. This about police training, municipal economics, policing through demographic analysis and profiling, etc. It's about basically everything else BUT manners.
Let's talk about "rudeness". What most people don't understand is that if every interaction you've ever had with law enforcement results harsh treatment, fines and jail time, you may have a serious mistrust of those in law enforcement. The system does not & will not ever work in your favour. While a $50 ticket is inconsequential to those with the ability to pay for some people, it could means court time, jail time, job loss and eventual financial ruin. If mistrust is what you know and see, would you be cooperative? Would you be polite?
I think we can all agree that regardless of race, age, gender and profession, we should all aim to handle ourselves better in public but I want people to realize that for some people - low income, black people in particular - comportment will not save you. This about police training, municipal economics, policing through demographic analysis and profiling, etc. It's about basically everything else BUT manners.
5
The police report is a sham. A father of 10 is dead for NO reason. Why is a university cop stopping vehicles in an off campus neighborhood? This guy was looking to make trouble and he made it.
Police lips are moving and lying, the new police normal.
Police lips are moving and lying, the new police normal.
4
Wasn't he awfully young to have 10 children?
Where did you read this?
Where did you read this?
1
How does this murderer think that he is going to get off scot-free after commiting a recorded act of homicide and then telling a barefaced lie about it? He must think that the rest of us have an IQ of zero. Refusing to immediately obey a police officer does not constitute an excuse to kill an unarmed person. The victim appeared to be somewhat confused as to what the officer wanted and was shot dead in a matter of seconds at point-blank range.
2
Does the "Black Lives Matter" crew believe that lives matter only when shot by cops? Because I never see an article where they try and take over a failed neighborhood plagued by shootings and crime. Which, by the way, kill more black men then cops EVER have.
5
What the #BlackLivesMatter "crew" believes is that, as public servants paid by taxpayer dollars, police officers should be held to a higher standard than the criminals who you so easily equate them to.
2
Do you ever visit communities where those tragedies have happened? Do you ever engage with community activists, organizers, and volunteers? Do you speak with the crew of volunteers who spend hours cleaning up abandoned properties and homes so that they are less appealing to drug addicts, homeless, and gang members? Do you ever speak to the retired men and women who help escort kids to school so they aren't obstructed or threatened by gangs? Do you speak with religious leaders who make themselves available to anyone and everyone, no matter the time or the problem? Do you ever read beyond a headline, statistic, or soundbite about the deaths of black Americans, at the hands of fellow black Americans, in tough neighborhoods?
That particular protest - which is strikingly similar to the tired complaint whenever someone Muslim committed an act of terror, leading some to demand that "all moderate Muslims" must speak out and condemn such attacks - seems most often to be made by people intent on deflecting the immediate issue and trying to call attention elsewhere without actually seeing if their claims are accurate.
Humans are remarkably capable of multitasking. We can all focus on the legitimate issues at hand in this case, as well as similar situations, while simultaneously working toward peaceful communities with low crime rates. It needn't be one or the other.
That particular protest - which is strikingly similar to the tired complaint whenever someone Muslim committed an act of terror, leading some to demand that "all moderate Muslims" must speak out and condemn such attacks - seems most often to be made by people intent on deflecting the immediate issue and trying to call attention elsewhere without actually seeing if their claims are accurate.
Humans are remarkably capable of multitasking. We can all focus on the legitimate issues at hand in this case, as well as similar situations, while simultaneously working toward peaceful communities with low crime rates. It needn't be one or the other.
3
Erin, you are describing local community activities that have not stopped the carnage in our inner cities. The commenter is describing a lack of recognition and outrage on a national level.
2
The responding officers claimed they saw Tensing being dragged? Clearly not true. Obstruction of justice and an example of the type of cover up that normally occurs. Will these officers who purposely filed false statements be charged. How does the level of criminality of filing a false statement and obstruction of justice compare to driving without a front plate?
6
I am shocked that there are still some people who comment that he shouldn't have driven (or run) away. Do people who make such comments believe that a non-violent person who drives away from a police officer deserves to lose their life?
5
That's exactly what they believe, if the person happens to be brown or black.
It's a known fact that over 95 percent of American police officers never draw their gun in the line of duty, during their entire career. Why are so many young police officers drawing their guns and shooting them today? What has changed...in light of a heightened level of community scrutiny, professional standards, and police accountability?
4
My uncle, an Ellis County Deputy Sheriff, along with three Dallas policemen, was ambushed , disarmed, taken to the Trinity River bottom and killed in the 1970s in Dallas.
I am mentioning this to highlight that he had been a Deputy Sheriff for over 25 years and had never once used his gun. He had been in several bad situations and told me that using a gun was the last resort. This is before police had pepper spray, mace and tasers.
Some policemen today seem to be very trigger happy and there have been a couple of stories in New York City where the several police fired over 100 shots and hit the target four or five times. Where did all the other bullets go?
Sounds like some policemen should not only be given more training about when to resort to using their gun and spend more time at the gun range.
I am mentioning this to highlight that he had been a Deputy Sheriff for over 25 years and had never once used his gun. He had been in several bad situations and told me that using a gun was the last resort. This is before police had pepper spray, mace and tasers.
Some policemen today seem to be very trigger happy and there have been a couple of stories in New York City where the several police fired over 100 shots and hit the target four or five times. Where did all the other bullets go?
Sounds like some policemen should not only be given more training about when to resort to using their gun and spend more time at the gun range.
Ok that's it! No more guns for the police. They've proven that they can't responsibly handle the weapon.
3
The officer overreacted but what I got from the video was what a difficult situation it was. The officer was very polite - the man in the car was evasive and unhelpful - I would have been furious by the time the guy took off in the car.; I applaud the officer for his demeanor prior to the time he shot the guy.
Shooting the man was appeared to be a spur of the moment over-reaction probably brought on by both fear and anger. That can't be tolerated - the officer has to remain in control all the time. You can't shoot someone who is not threatening you or others. This isn't Dirty Harry.
I'm very sorry for the man's family - and he video makes me also understand what a difficult job police officer's have.
Shooting the man was appeared to be a spur of the moment over-reaction probably brought on by both fear and anger. That can't be tolerated - the officer has to remain in control all the time. You can't shoot someone who is not threatening you or others. This isn't Dirty Harry.
I'm very sorry for the man's family - and he video makes me also understand what a difficult job police officer's have.
2
However after reviewing the video again it's clear that the officer immediately shoots the man in the head as the car pulls away. The officer doesn't appear to be in any danger at all. He pulls out his gun and creams the guy - unbelievable!
He's going to prison for a long time.
He's going to prison for a long time.
3
What a difficult situation it was?? Jesus Christ. If this is a "difficult situation" for a police officer, that police officer should not be allowed to be a cop. Full stop. This was probably the easiest encounter a police officer could have hoped to encounter, after helping an old lady cross the street. Give me a break.
First, let me say, this is a tragic event. But unless you were that officer, it's impossible to know what was going through his mind. I saw an officer ask Mr. DuBose standard questions, which he skirted around, which means he was not being honest. If he was under the influence, I'm sure the officer figured that out. Once he fled, I'm thinking this officer, or any officer, thinks how quickly a car can turn into a weapon. When he drove away, I'm certain the officer had no idea why he fled or if during those few seconds he had time to retrieve a weapon. The video does not show in the car, no one can predict what might have happened However, I do agree with others that said officers most likely need more training on how to train themselves to not react so instantaneously, but that is human nature. People need to remember, all officers, put their lives on the line as they are the ones who respond to something that does not look right. I'm a white woman in my 40's, who has never broken a law, but I get nervous when I come into contact with an officer, some people just act squirly, again, human nature. The best way to avoid anything happening is to do what you are being asked to do. It's sad when lives are taken when they shouldn't be but it's impossible to know what goes through an officer's minds in situations like that. I'm sorry for this family's loss, it's a sad situation - all lives matter. My condolences to the family.
3
Driving without a license with an open bottle of gin sounds as though it might have begun as a "minor traffic stop" but was something else when the driver at least gave every indication of also fleeing the scene.
2
He didn't flee. How do you do that when you're already dead? How do you know the bottle was open? You don't know anything.
5
I would say that starting to drive away could be considered fleeing.
He did have a bottle of gin and what I have read says it was unopened.
I don't think that is a problem though having an open container is.
He did have a bottle of gin and what I have read says it was unopened.
I don't think that is a problem though having an open container is.
1
Fleeing the scene? The scene of what?
Haven't you ever forgotten your license at home while also bringing a bottle of wine somewhere?
It amazes me how many commenters here are ok with extrajudicial execution as a punishment for driving without a license.
Haven't you ever forgotten your license at home while also bringing a bottle of wine somewhere?
It amazes me how many commenters here are ok with extrajudicial execution as a punishment for driving without a license.
3
All else aside, how does a university cop even have the authority to conduct a traffic stop on a public roadway?
6
This tragic incident, after many similar ones, confirms my worst fears about the police. Apparently many of the people who 50 years ago would have joined a brotherhood and worn white sheets today join a different brotherhood and wear blue uniforms.
3
Ok, I have second thoughts, which in education is considered a good thing but not a practice that transfers to posting online. I'm uncomfortable with every issue being seen through the race lens and post from that developing perspective. I don't think it's helpful, for example, for the NYT to have the title of this article be white cop kills black man. At a glance, that means it was about race and that assumption -- and that is all that it can be at this point though it is read as fact -- is dangerous for us all To me, as far the (campus) cop is concerned, this could be more about training, fear, incompetence, and perhaps personality disorder. It could also be about race but we just don't know that yet. For the NYT to make the narrative about color is not responsible journalism; it's race baiting, sort of.
I hear and support all of the voices being raised in protest against racial profiling. But for what it is worth, I got pulled over last month (driving while white) by a white cop who gave me a $155 ticket, not even a chance for a warning. I went back to the site, took pictures, and will bring them to my hearing (which costs another $25, btw). But I didn't mouth off to him. Even while white, I sensed attitude and knew it was trouble. Point is, it may not be as much about race as is claimed. We should speak truth to power, but that works only when we honor truth. We don't know the truth yet here.
I hear and support all of the voices being raised in protest against racial profiling. But for what it is worth, I got pulled over last month (driving while white) by a white cop who gave me a $155 ticket, not even a chance for a warning. I went back to the site, took pictures, and will bring them to my hearing (which costs another $25, btw). But I didn't mouth off to him. Even while white, I sensed attitude and knew it was trouble. Point is, it may not be as much about race as is claimed. We should speak truth to power, but that works only when we honor truth. We don't know the truth yet here.
5
@PS: "... a white cop who gave me a $155 ticket, not even a chance for a warning. I went back to the site, took pictures, and will bring them to my hearing ..."
How did you know that you could contest your citation in court?
How did you know that you could contest your citation in court?
2
You have a right to contest a ticket. It's on the back of the ticket itself. You have to mail it in within 20 days and include the fee, then they mail you a court date. I don't have a court date yet but I will get one, and I can't change it. But that date doesn't mean the ticket gets dismissed. It will be up to the judge, hence my pictures, which I hope help.
2
Here is a link to the Washington Post investigation of how many people have been killed by police in the United States this year alone, 558.
http://tinyurl.com/ov5r79q
http://tinyurl.com/ov5r79q
1
When are we going to have a clear understanding that no matter who you are, if you run, kick, fight, use your vehicle as a potential weapon, and try to evade reasonable law enforcement, that you risk the possibility of being shot! We have an unbalanced expectation, it seems to me, coming very clearly to the fore, that the Officers are the ones who now should be bearing the risk of losing their lives, at the sake of unreasonable behavior from an individual behaving in an unlawful way. We are heading into very murky territory, indeed. Did the Officer's final shot represent an extreme response? I don't know. I wish the shot was to his leg.....but clearly those questioned by police are feeling a right and empowerment to evade and at the very least, completely disrespect authority. And like it or not, we all have to submit to authority. I pray for the deceased, for the deceased's family, and certainly, I pray for the young officer and his family. And that somehow GOOD can come of this.
3
It will be interesting to see how much experience this officer had, what level of training, how much field training under the direct supervision of a veteran officer, and his background before becoming an officer. I suspect the answers to these questions are "minimal, to none".
1
The video is reasonably clear. I don't know what the officer was thinking, but there isn't any sign that his life was endanger. Possibly that this guy was going to speed away, but that doesn't justify shooting him. And it seems he lied after the incident, which makes sense since he clearly didn't have cause to shoot this man. Two things to point out. There's no sign of racism here. This could just have easily been a white guy in the car with the same result. Of course than we wouldn't be seeing it would we? The media wouldn't care?
Also had the victim here just cooperated with the police as he is lawfully required to do he'd be alive today. It appears pretty clear from the video that he had decided to hit the gas and flee, but I agree that the officers life was in danger and he should have just let him go and tracked him down.
This officer wasn't out looking to kill a black man or anybody. It looks like he panicked when the guy hit the gas, and made the worst mistake of his life, for which he's going to have to pay. The officer was also not a city or county guy, but a University cop. Probably not as well trained or experienced.
Also had the victim here just cooperated with the police as he is lawfully required to do he'd be alive today. It appears pretty clear from the video that he had decided to hit the gas and flee, but I agree that the officers life was in danger and he should have just let him go and tracked him down.
This officer wasn't out looking to kill a black man or anybody. It looks like he panicked when the guy hit the gas, and made the worst mistake of his life, for which he's going to have to pay. The officer was also not a city or county guy, but a University cop. Probably not as well trained or experienced.
2
@John Brown: " It looks like he panicked when the guy hit the gas, and made the worst mistake of his life, ..."
The officer had has arm *inside* the car. Would you call that a "mistake"?
The officer had has arm *inside* the car. Would you call that a "mistake"?
2
Oh, man, why didn't the officer call for back-up?
ESPECIALLY when handed the gin bottle, which is SOP for an individual who may appear to be "impaired?" The officer keeps taunting the guy, with predictable results. The copper should have asked the guy to toss his keys out the window, backed off and waited for the posse.
But, no . . . . and now, this.
ESPECIALLY when handed the gin bottle, which is SOP for an individual who may appear to be "impaired?" The officer keeps taunting the guy, with predictable results. The copper should have asked the guy to toss his keys out the window, backed off and waited for the posse.
But, no . . . . and now, this.
2
@Hunter: "The officer keeps taunting the guy, ..."
What "taunting"? Please provide an exact quote for what you consider "taunting".
What "taunting"? Please provide an exact quote for what you consider "taunting".
4
Beyond the egregious nastiness of all this, I am most curious as to why a college policeman is stopping a man in regard to the tag on his license? While college police are given broad jurisdiction, why would they concern themselves with matters that have no effect on the college? Could they not just contact city police with the information and let them take care of it? Shouldn't their concerns only be the protection of the people in and around the college, and if there is no such threat, leave the matters to city officials?
I do agree that colleges should have armed police to protect students in case of extreme incidents. As far back as the University of Texas tower shooter in the 1960s and up the more recent Virginia Tech tragedy, we know that colleges are not immune to gun violence. The campuses are not closed, so anyone can enter and threaten students and staff at any time. I do, however, agree with Prosecutor Deters, that policing should be handled by a city police department. Can cities not have one police station (or more) on college campus grounds?
Campus police are not armed guards as some might think. They are trained police. But are they of the proper mindset of police work when their day consists of watching over a largely peaceful environment? Rotating city police officers might aid in a more productive mindset.
I do agree that colleges should have armed police to protect students in case of extreme incidents. As far back as the University of Texas tower shooter in the 1960s and up the more recent Virginia Tech tragedy, we know that colleges are not immune to gun violence. The campuses are not closed, so anyone can enter and threaten students and staff at any time. I do, however, agree with Prosecutor Deters, that policing should be handled by a city police department. Can cities not have one police station (or more) on college campus grounds?
Campus police are not armed guards as some might think. They are trained police. But are they of the proper mindset of police work when their day consists of watching over a largely peaceful environment? Rotating city police officers might aid in a more productive mindset.
2
A sad story, another city, now, but with repeating problems we have come to accept. We have poorly educated people, with inadequate, poor training, placed in public space, with loaded weapons. Go figure. How can the future results be changed for the better?
2
Besides better police training, maybe the DMV should include in their driver's license manual a chapter on how to behave when stopped by the police. With so many different personalities out there, some who are fearful, some who are ignorant, some who are hardheaded and think they know the law, it couldn't hurt. Just a thought.
6
Please don’t act like Mr. DuBose bears absolutely no responsibility for this escalation. If you do, then there is simply no hope for this country.
Officer Tensing clearly asked “Do you have your license on you?” He asked it SIX TIMES, very calmly, each and every time. Mr. DuBose equivocated each and every time (except the last) and avoided the question. The officer now has reasonable suspicion that something is amiss.
Officer Tensing asks Mr. DuBose to take his seat belt off and starts to open the door. At that moment, Mr. DuBose starts to resist by closing the door and starting the car up as if to flee.
Stop.
Why do such things if you think the police are trigger happy? Why would Mr. DuBose now escalate it?
If Officer Tensing was hell bent on shooting Mr. DuBose, when Mr. DuBose reached into and rummaged through the glove compartment, would have been an opportune time to do so as he could have been reaching for a weapon. But Officer Tensing did not react at that time.
Officer Tensing knew he had a body camera on, he more than likely put it there himself for Christ’s sake. Why would he intentionally murder someone? On camera? He wouldn’t. He may have genuinely believed that he was about to be run over and needed to make a split second decision at that moment.
Mr. DuBose thus bears some responsibility.
(and don’t assume that I am White, because I’m actually Black and have been stopped many a time by police at gun point, so I know what I’m talking about)
Officer Tensing clearly asked “Do you have your license on you?” He asked it SIX TIMES, very calmly, each and every time. Mr. DuBose equivocated each and every time (except the last) and avoided the question. The officer now has reasonable suspicion that something is amiss.
Officer Tensing asks Mr. DuBose to take his seat belt off and starts to open the door. At that moment, Mr. DuBose starts to resist by closing the door and starting the car up as if to flee.
Stop.
Why do such things if you think the police are trigger happy? Why would Mr. DuBose now escalate it?
If Officer Tensing was hell bent on shooting Mr. DuBose, when Mr. DuBose reached into and rummaged through the glove compartment, would have been an opportune time to do so as he could have been reaching for a weapon. But Officer Tensing did not react at that time.
Officer Tensing knew he had a body camera on, he more than likely put it there himself for Christ’s sake. Why would he intentionally murder someone? On camera? He wouldn’t. He may have genuinely believed that he was about to be run over and needed to make a split second decision at that moment.
Mr. DuBose thus bears some responsibility.
(and don’t assume that I am White, because I’m actually Black and have been stopped many a time by police at gun point, so I know what I’m talking about)
9
It's interesting that a "university" police officer's zone of operation is limited, but apparently his weaponry is not. I'd be interested in a bigger story on exactly what requirements and training is required of these "university" police and how much weaponry they may be able to carry.
1
In Massachusetts, they are sworn special officers of the Massachusetts State Police and are required similar training to that of municipal officers. I don't know about standards in other states..but that is how it works here.
1
Where are the drug and alcohol tests for these officers? The police loves to issue a toxicology report of a victim as if drugs played a role in their death, but don't do the same for officers when they know drug and alcohol usage runs rampant in police forces across the country. Mandatory body cameras on ALL officers is a good start, and mandatory drug tests of ALL officers involved in a shooting should be required as well.
8
Is it possible that our national leaders are so tragically incompetent and reckless?
The shootings by the police officers have nothing to do with the racism but exclusively with job stress.
Do we have the historic precedents to prove this claim?
Let’s examine the US troops that served as the policemen on the streets of Baghdad and Iraq.
Do you know they were much better trained and more disciplined than our police officers?
Do you know how many times they have shot the entire Iraqi families in their cars for failing to stop when directed?
No, out soldiers didn’t do it because they were racists, but because of nature of their jobs.
Take the humans out of stressful situation and they will react in a very rational way.
To prevent the police shootings we have to minimize their stress level.
Thus it’s extremely important never to argue with the police officers.
Any alleged unprofessionalism and encroachment upon your civil rights should be addressed in different locations – the city halls, the mayor offices and with the police chiefs.
Respect the police officers more and they will respect you back…
The shootings by the police officers have nothing to do with the racism but exclusively with job stress.
Do we have the historic precedents to prove this claim?
Let’s examine the US troops that served as the policemen on the streets of Baghdad and Iraq.
Do you know they were much better trained and more disciplined than our police officers?
Do you know how many times they have shot the entire Iraqi families in their cars for failing to stop when directed?
No, out soldiers didn’t do it because they were racists, but because of nature of their jobs.
Take the humans out of stressful situation and they will react in a very rational way.
To prevent the police shootings we have to minimize their stress level.
Thus it’s extremely important never to argue with the police officers.
Any alleged unprofessionalism and encroachment upon your civil rights should be addressed in different locations – the city halls, the mayor offices and with the police chiefs.
Respect the police officers more and they will respect you back…
1
.....just one word: DISGUSTING.
3
Senseless killings of black people by police officers have come to the public's attention recently for only one reason: they are now being recorded, by passersby and by the officers' own body and patrol car cameras. In most of these cases, the officers involved blatantly lied on their reports about what happened. As a society we now need to go back and do the hard work and revisit every police involved shooting of a black person for the last hundred years. If one in three is unjustified--a conservative number in my opinion--and we look at the total number of people killed, then we might need to face an ugly truth: extrajudicial killings of black people by police officers is at the very least a mass killing of unimaginable scale or worse, when taking into account judicial killings and mass incarceration, a holocaust.
3
Here are some reforms that might change the climate of police on citizen violence in the United States:
1. Longer training periods. American police officers receive minimal training compared to Europe.
2. Make officers watch videos of improper police procedures that have led to violence again and again.
3. Have an every three year review as to whether an officer should remain on the force (constant review is necessary, but the 3 yr. major review would add another element).
4. No one gets full retirement benefits, short of disability, until at least 62 to 66. Partial, yes. Full, no. Remove the idea of being an officer for most of one's working life then hitting easy street. (The full retirement benefit induces many poor officers to stay just to get it and discourages chiefs from firing officers during their last yrs. before retirement benefits kick in.)
5. Any officer who has served for at least 6 yrs. is eligible for some retirement benefit, removing the need to do 20 to 24 yrs. for retirement.
6. Take away 50% of retirement benefits from officers who use excessive force (review panel).
7. Every major police violence event reviewed for indictment by an outside panel, not the DA who has to work with police every day. The DA is part of the system and the problem.
8. Find ways to expose white police officers to the responsible and decent culture of black America rather than seeing crime constantly.
9. Remove 1/3 to 1/2 of all officers.
1. Longer training periods. American police officers receive minimal training compared to Europe.
2. Make officers watch videos of improper police procedures that have led to violence again and again.
3. Have an every three year review as to whether an officer should remain on the force (constant review is necessary, but the 3 yr. major review would add another element).
4. No one gets full retirement benefits, short of disability, until at least 62 to 66. Partial, yes. Full, no. Remove the idea of being an officer for most of one's working life then hitting easy street. (The full retirement benefit induces many poor officers to stay just to get it and discourages chiefs from firing officers during their last yrs. before retirement benefits kick in.)
5. Any officer who has served for at least 6 yrs. is eligible for some retirement benefit, removing the need to do 20 to 24 yrs. for retirement.
6. Take away 50% of retirement benefits from officers who use excessive force (review panel).
7. Every major police violence event reviewed for indictment by an outside panel, not the DA who has to work with police every day. The DA is part of the system and the problem.
8. Find ways to expose white police officers to the responsible and decent culture of black America rather than seeing crime constantly.
9. Remove 1/3 to 1/2 of all officers.
2
If that were standard police procedure than almost every stop would end in a shooting.
I'm puzzled as to why people don't protect themselves better by abiding by the law and preparing yourself to be stopped.
I'm puzzled as to why people don't protect themselves better by abiding by the law and preparing yourself to be stopped.
2
My university has just entered into an agreement with the city of San Luis Obispo to allow campus police to patrol surrounding neighborhoods. The city police force is stretched too thin to handle all of the noise complaints from students having parties. I surely understand their irritation and anger, but no good will come of this, in my opinion. This story offers strong supporting evidence. Keep university police within the boundaries of actual universities.
4
What it is going to take for the people who have the power to change this to act and put an end to these horrific crimes? In America, you are presumed INNOCENT until PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law. It is clear that far too many police have decided that they are the only law, the only order, and are committing outrageous acts of injustice, acting as instant judge and jury.
Every day there are videos taken by brave citizens that are exposing our clearly corrupt system of "law" enforcement in which police officers lie, assault or murder, use excessive force where none is required, and violate American citizens' civil rights. EVERY DAY.
We are seeing video after video after video of, more often than not, entire gangs of cops beating, kicking, tazing, choking, smothering citizens who have no weapons, who are handcuffed, who are NOT resisting, even who are HANDICAPPED in WHEELCHAIRS, who are merely homeless, who are committing no crime, or at the very least, may have committed incredibly minor crimes that do not involve weapons or violence being brutalized and in too many cases, heinously murdered. We see people brutally beaten and arrested for having the temerity to speak up for themselves.
Ray Tensing shot this man for no reason with depraved indifference, as if he knew he'd be backed up and cleared. Every single cop who participates in these kinds of horrors is a criminal and should be dealt with as such.
Sickening - all of it, and escalating. What will it take?
Every day there are videos taken by brave citizens that are exposing our clearly corrupt system of "law" enforcement in which police officers lie, assault or murder, use excessive force where none is required, and violate American citizens' civil rights. EVERY DAY.
We are seeing video after video after video of, more often than not, entire gangs of cops beating, kicking, tazing, choking, smothering citizens who have no weapons, who are handcuffed, who are NOT resisting, even who are HANDICAPPED in WHEELCHAIRS, who are merely homeless, who are committing no crime, or at the very least, may have committed incredibly minor crimes that do not involve weapons or violence being brutalized and in too many cases, heinously murdered. We see people brutally beaten and arrested for having the temerity to speak up for themselves.
Ray Tensing shot this man for no reason with depraved indifference, as if he knew he'd be backed up and cleared. Every single cop who participates in these kinds of horrors is a criminal and should be dealt with as such.
Sickening - all of it, and escalating. What will it take?
4
These recent police-citizen shootings have a common thread: First, there is a vilation of the law. Next, there is physical resistance to the police. There is a simple solution: 1). Dont break the law. 2) Dont resist the police.
2
The simple solution should be to take criminals to jail instead of killing them.
Nothing any of these people have done deserves the death penalty.
BTW, you're forgetting about the child who was gunned down in the park. He didn't have time to even speak to the police, they shot him the minute they pulled up.
BTW, you're forgetting about the child who was gunned down in the park. He didn't have time to even speak to the police, they shot him the minute they pulled up.
Some police reform looks to be in order. Citizen reform also is in order. If you're a citizen who is stopped by law enforcement it's an excellent idea to fully comply with the officer. When you don't, it gives the officer reason for concern and perhaps make a misjudgment. I'm a white male. When I was stopped, I was super careful to move slowly, keeping my hands in full view. And I'm respectful no matter how unreasonable the officer seems to be. It's common sense.
2
Very Tragic death!
Guilty should be prosecuted and punished.
But we citizens also have certain responsibilities when dealing with the police. One of them is to follow orders and procedures. Civic rights protections guarantee justice from mis-behaving cops, but that matters only if you are alive!
Guilty should be prosecuted and punished.
But we citizens also have certain responsibilities when dealing with the police. One of them is to follow orders and procedures. Civic rights protections guarantee justice from mis-behaving cops, but that matters only if you are alive!
2
I wonder if this miscarriage of justice could have been avoided if all cars were equipped with an ignition lockout that could be remotely activated by the police?
Perhaps a near-field signal that needed to be transmitted continuously to maintain an effect, to avoid hacking or frivolous remote interference.
Perhaps a near-field signal that needed to be transmitted continuously to maintain an effect, to avoid hacking or frivolous remote interference.
This cop's police report was clearly fraudulent with the help of TWO OTHER WITNESS COPS. If this cop's report is FRAUDULENT with POLICE HELP. How fraudulent are the reports from Ferguson cops?
3
Am I the only one here who is very surprised that we ever got to see this video? That it didn't magically vanish or "get lost" immediately after the shooting?
I'm gratified, but worried. Now that every police chief and officer in the land has seen what can happen when such a video is found, won't much more energetic efforts be made, before such a video is ever again revealed, to be certain that the camera "malfunctioned" or the video was "corrupted" in the case of a fatal shooting by a police officer? Think of all the "lost" and "accidentally erased" tapes and emails in famous cases involving elected officials!
This instance came out right. We got the video, and it revealed the truth. I wonder what, if anything, is being done to ensure that future incidents will also be reported.
In this way we are fortunate that today nearly every citizen has a video camera (aka smart phone) on his or her person at all times!
I'm gratified, but worried. Now that every police chief and officer in the land has seen what can happen when such a video is found, won't much more energetic efforts be made, before such a video is ever again revealed, to be certain that the camera "malfunctioned" or the video was "corrupted" in the case of a fatal shooting by a police officer? Think of all the "lost" and "accidentally erased" tapes and emails in famous cases involving elected officials!
This instance came out right. We got the video, and it revealed the truth. I wonder what, if anything, is being done to ensure that future incidents will also be reported.
In this way we are fortunate that today nearly every citizen has a video camera (aka smart phone) on his or her person at all times!
2
Far too many members of law enforcement have warped their iconic motto into:
"To serve and to protect ... our own self-interests".
"To serve and to protect ... our own self-interests".
1
In the 60s-70s, armed self defense groups weren't popular, but they made cops pick their targets VERY carefully. Why? Because they knew it was easy to find black men (and women) who would shoot back and/or defend those unjustly harassed. Those were tense days, interspersed with riots that caused jobs to flee to the suburbs and turn many cities into under-class deserts. I do not long for that period. I do though miss the days when, if a cop caught your eye, he looked away instead of looked for trouble.
The ongoing media frenzy will only increase the number of police shootings across America as it’s already happening.
Why?
The most important prerequisite for the police work is the public trust and confidence.
All those 24/7 media reports about the police misconduct and wrongdoings do undermine the public trust in our police.
The less social trust is out there, the more arguments, accusations and bickering will be on our streets related even to the minor traffic violations.
The inflamed animosity will only add gasoline to already stressed jobs and make the police officers more irritated and easier to snap under the mounting pressure.
It means the current media reporting only escalates all the troubles connected to extremely stressful and unthankful police duties.
The police officers put their lives on line for us every single day and in return they receive widespread contempt and racist accusations.
It will only get worse and worse unless we change the course.
To easier understand what’s going on, here is a wartime analogy.
Our media are creating the widespread PTSD disorder among our police officers and hostile public environment.
As it happened to our soldiers in Iraq, the longer they were exposed to those conditions, the easier they snapped and started shooting…
Why?
The most important prerequisite for the police work is the public trust and confidence.
All those 24/7 media reports about the police misconduct and wrongdoings do undermine the public trust in our police.
The less social trust is out there, the more arguments, accusations and bickering will be on our streets related even to the minor traffic violations.
The inflamed animosity will only add gasoline to already stressed jobs and make the police officers more irritated and easier to snap under the mounting pressure.
It means the current media reporting only escalates all the troubles connected to extremely stressful and unthankful police duties.
The police officers put their lives on line for us every single day and in return they receive widespread contempt and racist accusations.
It will only get worse and worse unless we change the course.
To easier understand what’s going on, here is a wartime analogy.
Our media are creating the widespread PTSD disorder among our police officers and hostile public environment.
As it happened to our soldiers in Iraq, the longer they were exposed to those conditions, the easier they snapped and started shooting…
1
This probably won't be printed because it doesn't comport with all the knee-jerk hand-wringing that has accompanied this and other similar cases. When I was growing, white and suburban, one thing you learned early on was to cooperate with the cops; don't mouth off or be difficult, and you should have no problems in generic interactions with them. After all, in traffic stops like we've seen in these national cases, most people know what they're going to get from police; they know the routine. The office at the U of Cincinnati did nothing out of the ordinary until the last moment. Cops, on the other hand, have no idea what they might find in a car they've pulled over - especially given this nation's crazy gun culture. It's why they wear bulletproof vests and often work in pairs. So, be polite and reasonable, and there should be no troubles. Virtually all of the black motorists whose deaths have prompted this 'national conversation' did not obey these easy rules of reasonableness: they were uncooperative, or outright violent. They followed a recipe almost guaranteed to make a cop tense and defensive. I'm not implying that they somehow got what they deserved; but their behavior needlessly aggravated their situations.
9
I'm going to say this, but first I would like to acknowledge that there are bad actors among police officers and the news headlines scream every time one of those bad actors does something despicable--and that's how that should be. This kind of abuse of power must be done away with, through training, psychological profiles, background checks, etc.
But rarely do we see headlines screaming about the untold number of police officers who are doing all sorts of humane acts, like the black policeman helping the white supremacist at the KKK rally. Many of these stories are in local papers where policemen/women help in numerous ways in their communities.
I say this as a teacher. The comments on any negative article about teachers will include lots of comments about how we're paid too much, yell too much, shame little children and, oh yes, we "don't work on weekends and get three months off in the summer."
My interactions with police during my 59 years have all been good, but then I'm a skinny white guy with Harry Potter glasses so I'm pretty non-threatening.
We need to work harder to get the bad police out of the police force and get the bad teachers out of the classrooms.
It's harder than anyone thinks.
But rarely do we see headlines screaming about the untold number of police officers who are doing all sorts of humane acts, like the black policeman helping the white supremacist at the KKK rally. Many of these stories are in local papers where policemen/women help in numerous ways in their communities.
I say this as a teacher. The comments on any negative article about teachers will include lots of comments about how we're paid too much, yell too much, shame little children and, oh yes, we "don't work on weekends and get three months off in the summer."
My interactions with police during my 59 years have all been good, but then I'm a skinny white guy with Harry Potter glasses so I'm pretty non-threatening.
We need to work harder to get the bad police out of the police force and get the bad teachers out of the classrooms.
It's harder than anyone thinks.
3
Tensing was a U of Cincinnati police officer - so why was he making a top off the campus?
What is going to happen to the 2 cops who lied?
What is going to happen to the 2 cops who lied?
2
Even if DuBose had been driving away, you still don't shoot the guy -- especially if he's running away. Wasn't there another recent case where a cop shot a guy in the back ? Rhymes with black.
2
first: it seems to me significant that many of these cases involve a single officer facing a single citizen. police training may require greater focus on the psychological peril of being a lone officer, without "backup"
second: bodycams have to be standard, compulsory police equipment in all police departments, if not by choice then by law, if not on local budgets then by federal funding. not only as evidence, but that they serve as the technical equivalent of the "backup" in terms of a second pair of eyes on the situation. they may help officers maintain their cool.
third: praise to the prosecutor, who promptly did the right thing. the ferguson and garner cases highlighted the pivotal role of prosecutors in burying or pursuing the crimes in these situations. we need more prosecutors willing to make an officer justify his actions in court.
fourth: not to downplay the significance of race, but this is really a citizen versus state issue. how many white suspects have been summarily executed? who is keeping track of police conduct at the district level? we need better records and reports overall.
the police have been operating in a gray zone of unaccountability and license for too long. cam these guys, and track their behavior in incident reports.
it's time to make the police truly "officers of the court".
second: bodycams have to be standard, compulsory police equipment in all police departments, if not by choice then by law, if not on local budgets then by federal funding. not only as evidence, but that they serve as the technical equivalent of the "backup" in terms of a second pair of eyes on the situation. they may help officers maintain their cool.
third: praise to the prosecutor, who promptly did the right thing. the ferguson and garner cases highlighted the pivotal role of prosecutors in burying or pursuing the crimes in these situations. we need more prosecutors willing to make an officer justify his actions in court.
fourth: not to downplay the significance of race, but this is really a citizen versus state issue. how many white suspects have been summarily executed? who is keeping track of police conduct at the district level? we need better records and reports overall.
the police have been operating in a gray zone of unaccountability and license for too long. cam these guys, and track their behavior in incident reports.
it's time to make the police truly "officers of the court".
1
The cop thought that he could stop the driver from speeding away, that much is clear, so he reached in. I think he pulled the gun becuase in his mind that was going to convince the driver to comply, but he pulled the trigger by mistake. Maybe out of fear, maybe he became unballanced, or just a surge of adrenaline. Immediately after he lied to his colleagues, so he had to stick with the story, even though he should have known he had a camera on him. All signs point to a very incompetent policeman that did something terrible, but not out of malice, and lied about it. Not sure what the punishment should be, but if you can get people killed, you should be held to a high standard.
4
That's a pretty good argument that his attorney can make for a manslaughter vs murder conviction.
1
It's not surprising that Tensing cried (a more accurate word may be wailed). As a result of his horrendously stupid action -- a probable consequence of immaturity -- this fledgling adult faces the likelihood of spending the rest of his life in prison.
Meanwhile, considering the continuing spate of cop crimes, one wonders whether America's ridiculous, antiquated gun laws should be updated to make gun registration also more difficult for police....
Meanwhile, considering the continuing spate of cop crimes, one wonders whether America's ridiculous, antiquated gun laws should be updated to make gun registration also more difficult for police....
2
Please do not forget John Crawford, who was shot and killed in a Dayton area Wal-Mart after another shopper called the police about a black man with a gun in the store. He was carrying a toy rifle that he had picked up in the store minutes earlier, and the police killed him before asking him anything, while the man stood with the hands in the air. This is all captured clearly on the store's security camera footage.
9
What is truly amazing is even with vehicle and body cameras the police officers still fail to tell the truth about the circumstances and their own behaviors!
6
558 people have been shot to death by police officers in 2015. This number comes from a careful, exhaustive survey by the Washington Post. This is an astounding number. If that many people were being executed after trials the United States would be considered the death penalty capital of the world and we would be shamed internationally. The mere 4 indictments that have taken place would probably not have happened without video evidence.
Black citizens have been trying to tell America for generations that they are routinely subjected to mistreatment and violence from officers. Not many people listened. The first concerted effort at recording police officers in action started in the late 1960s with the Black Panther Party, most of whom wound up in jail or dead in police shoot outs. The "radical" idea that police carrying out their duties in public should be recorded doesn't seem radical at all now.
We need national leadership on this issue, even though the control of police departments and their operations is purely a local matter. Something is wrong across the board, up and down, front to back. It seems that many officers believe they can get away with anything and that some deliberately create a pretext for using violence against citizens.
Let's not condemn all police officers, however. I witnessed the stop of a car not displaying a license plate a few days ago and the officer was calm, controlled and did not even issue a ticket after the driver produced a plate.
3
I feel very strongly, after watching the complete video, that Race had very little to do with this fatal incident.
Police stupidity or lack of training or lack of proper psychological assessment, has a lot more to do with this one.
The officer made mistake after mistake and crowned it with a shot to the head to a fleeing, probably inebriated but harmless citizen.
We will get a lot more victims like this (black, white, Japanese,etc) until the vetting of candidates for the police is done in a more scientific manner.
Beware of ignorant, bullying police officers, you may die!
PS: Obviously the victim behavior was quite silly and inappropriate but NEVER, at any moment, dangerous or threatening.
The gun should he never come out.
Police stupidity or lack of training or lack of proper psychological assessment, has a lot more to do with this one.
The officer made mistake after mistake and crowned it with a shot to the head to a fleeing, probably inebriated but harmless citizen.
We will get a lot more victims like this (black, white, Japanese,etc) until the vetting of candidates for the police is done in a more scientific manner.
Beware of ignorant, bullying police officers, you may die!
PS: Obviously the victim behavior was quite silly and inappropriate but NEVER, at any moment, dangerous or threatening.
The gun should he never come out.
Gaston - The actions of this very unprepared police officer are very apparent. However, the victim was stupid and drunk in the middle of the day with a gin bottle on the floor of his car. Was he on his way to work to support his TEN children? There are so many ridiculous moving parts to all of these stories. What a waste of life...
If anyone thinks this officer did not begin to shoot until after the car was moving, I urge you to watch the YouTube made by MiniClipsApart. The slow-motion stop action version shows exactly when the officer shot. Shows that he did not have his finger on the trigger after the car was moving and that the fatal shot was definitely made before the car really moves.
2
I used to be a police officer. What is now prevailing in our society is this unreasonable defiance, distrust and resistance of government and authority; much of it fostered by news media like Fox. One hundred percent of the police officer shootings, killings, or injuries you've reported in this paper lately could be avoided by the person simply doing what the police officer says. He is the authority in these situations and has a duty to protect himself and the population when making these arrests. You don't send our troops into battle with these namby-pamby restriction of defending themselves. It's become popular news stories, in order to attract viewers, to video high-speed car chases as thou it were some sort of harmless sport. Until the courts start imposing harsh sentences for resisting arrest; not following the instructing of the arresting officers; these killings and injuries will continue.
3
So resisting arrest equals death? Arguing equals death? You DO realize this is exactly why people don't trust the police right? Officers are humans too and if they can't handle an argument without pulling out their guns then they shouldn't be in the force, period. Stop making excuses for bad people. There are plenty of good cops that need your support, unless you weren't a good cop I suppose....
The distrust prevalent in our society towards police is a direct response to officers' malignant conduct and you should be ashamed of defending this officer's actions. You are public servants not executioners.
Oh, please, how many videos have we now seen of cops beating an unarmed man into the ground as they yell "stop resisting". Seeing is believing, and body cams are the first step to stopping the out of control police.
3
The locale sure doesn't look like a university campus. What's a campus cop doing there?
3
Some campuses are quite urban and contain off site properties that are monitored by campus police.
Couldn't the headline have read "Police officer shoots unarmed man" instead of injecting race into it? For that matter, did race have anything to do with these events, or was it just a man resisting the orders of a police officer which lead to the officers awful reaction? I know newspapers take great pains to exclude race when reporting on other crimes (theft, assault, etc). Why go the other way, especially when it involves a white police officer.
2
like many officers, this one escalates a nothing situation into a tense one, and like many officers, this one was overcome by cowardice, prejudice and lack of training. he was startled when the car moved (probably because dubose's foot came off the brake as he turned to release his belt, as instructed), did not remove his hand from the car door handle, and shot dubose in the head because he didn't know what else to do. then he's running down the hill yelling as dubose' now driverless car is rolling. tensing forgot to say that he created the whole situation on his own and by the way killed a man who was doing as instructed. deters is right, it is clearly murder, "asinine" is a nice way to put it, but will this become a new paradigm for looking at gun killings by police officers? tensing was not a police officer. this will be the dodge used by future prosecutors to continue to be soft on homicides by police officers, or in police custody. the good police are out there trying to show us who they are. they bad ones are getting badder. DAs have to step up, whether the uniformed gunmen are full-fledged police or rent-a-cops.
1
I live in a college town that is home to a 25,000 student State University. It has its own police department and I think it is regarded as a second class operation .It's not like the Campus Police chose to be campus police as opposed to City Police. The campus police are somewhere between police officers and security guards. I've heard it explained that one of the reasons they exist it because it's thought that the campus police are positioned to better interact with the college students. I think this campus cop was Barney Fife trying to be "Dirty Harry"
3
There is a lot of violence out there, particularly in the black community. That somehow is almost never reported. Cops, black and white, have to make tough, on-the-spot decisions. Sometimes those decisions are less than ideal. Anyone who has faced a dire emergency, understands how imperfectly people act when such circumstances of perceived peril arise.
In a country of over 320 million people, a few incidents are not a trend, but simply the consequence of active law enforcement.
Keep tying the hands of law enforcers and you'll be the first ones to run away from the violence created thereby.
In a country of over 320 million people, a few incidents are not a trend, but simply the consequence of active law enforcement.
Keep tying the hands of law enforcers and you'll be the first ones to run away from the violence created thereby.
3
If this tying of the hands is to make them behave like human beings to other human beings and stop killing people for being defyed - no problem
The only solution is to replace white cops with black ones as the retire or leave their forces.
The common threat running the majority of comments that support Officer Tensing’s actions is this: Failure to obey the commands of a police officer justifies the use of lethal force.
1
My strong instinct on this issue for many months has been body cams on all cops, damn the expense. Let the do-nothing Congress finally do something really, really vital to this society; partially or if need be, totally fund body cams for all armed cops around the nation. Notwithstanding the victim's apparent minor offenses (i.e., driving without his license, possibly drinking in the vehicle), being shot in the head and killed was not, to make the understatement of the decade, the appropriate punishment. As the DA said, "This isn't Afghanistan!" Body cams will make a fundamental difference in all policing once implemented, but especially in weeding out the miscreants like this gun-happy officer.
1
Yet another instance in which a black person refused to do what he was asked to do and then paid the price. When a police officer tells you to stop or get out of the car, do it.
5
Well Dean, that is not a capitol offense and this cop pulled his arm down and shot him in the face. Was that justified?
Really. Only black people get the death penalty (paid the price) for refusal. That';s even a price that has to be paid?
Come on, Good Cops of America. Report Bad Cops/Bullies, and their superiors, who are called your "fellow officers" to the FBI. Help restore the America the vast majority of us want. NOW!
12
It would be encouraging to see some initiatives by police organizations toward best practices. If there have been any, scant attention has been paid in the media.
So Mr. Dubose had an open container of alcohol in the car and no license. And then he took off in the middle of being pulled over? Am I seeing this right? No, he didn't deserve to be shot and killed but this was no boy scout. Police officers are in a terrible situation. There's no civil obedience, the courts let people walk with a long list of infractions. The police are poorly trained and nothing in the system -- not the courts, not the times -- has their back. Force is being used when it should never be used, and why is that? All of these victims of police killings were asked to follow an order and did not. Society has changed. When did it become okay to mouth off and disobey a police officer? We have to acknowledge these changes and not give guns to poorly trained, poorly paid, poorly educated people who enforce in a society with little regard for them. If they didn't have guns they might find another way to enforce laws. All of these victims were known and could have been found at a later time.
9
If I could make a poster of your comment and hang it everywhere I would. Completely agree.
I don't think it was an open bottle of gin. The audio is hard to hear, but once Mr. Dubose responds to the officer's request by showing him the bottle, the issue seems resolved.
Mr. Dubose asserts that he is a licensed driver and that he simply doesn't have his license on him. He repeatedly requests that the officer check this information.
The officer violated procedure by reaching into Mr. Dubose's vehicle.
Mr. Dubose asserts that he is a licensed driver and that he simply doesn't have his license on him. He repeatedly requests that the officer check this information.
The officer violated procedure by reaching into Mr. Dubose's vehicle.
He did not take off. The car moved after he was shot in the head. Of course, if you don't have your license with you the cop should shoot you in the head.
1
While race has played a very important, even deciding role, in the events that have come to wide public attention, these kinds of situations are not solely about race. It could happen to anyone, at any time. All it takes is for someone to make a move, any move, that brings the concern of a particular police officer and the potential for violence, even death, is at the ready.
The idea that an officer can write on a report "officer felt threatened" as a sufficient explanation for shooting someone is ridiculous. From the number of shooting incidents that have come to light in the last 10 months, we can safely assume that hundreds of people across America have been shot to death without justification.
Once someone goes through brief training at a police academy and makes it through two or three years of street experience, it is relatively rare that they are fired. Why? Because commanders and chiefs believe they need people who have done the job and been tested. A force with a lot of rookies carries its own dangers, for everyone. Yet, it is clear that many more officers are not qualified for their responsibilities and need to be fired.
The biggest tests are psychological and emotional. Does the person have mental balance and the ability to deal with others in high stress situations? Yet, police work itself can cause imbalance and overreaction.
We are not going to get this resolved by a few police departments making changes. A concerted, national effort is required.
The idea that an officer can write on a report "officer felt threatened" as a sufficient explanation for shooting someone is ridiculous. From the number of shooting incidents that have come to light in the last 10 months, we can safely assume that hundreds of people across America have been shot to death without justification.
Once someone goes through brief training at a police academy and makes it through two or three years of street experience, it is relatively rare that they are fired. Why? Because commanders and chiefs believe they need people who have done the job and been tested. A force with a lot of rookies carries its own dangers, for everyone. Yet, it is clear that many more officers are not qualified for their responsibilities and need to be fired.
The biggest tests are psychological and emotional. Does the person have mental balance and the ability to deal with others in high stress situations? Yet, police work itself can cause imbalance and overreaction.
We are not going to get this resolved by a few police departments making changes. A concerted, national effort is required.
6
In yet another article in today's New York Times a police officer was not charged in a case where a young mother who was his girlfriend was found battered and shot with his gun but he claimed it was suicide. The Florida governor had a "special prosecutor" investigate and guess what - the officer was not a fault. So this is the story of the brown-shirt police officers we have today - who we pay with OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars - having a license to kill. And their paymasters and fellow BIG democracy-destroying money
political operatives try to defund Planned Parenthood so they'll have more human fodder for their target practice. How many people know that the SS officers at Dachau used live prisoners for target practice? All it takes is for Good People to do nothing. Wake up America and see what is happening to OUR beloved America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/no-charges-in-2010-shooting-of-a-fl...®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
political operatives try to defund Planned Parenthood so they'll have more human fodder for their target practice. How many people know that the SS officers at Dachau used live prisoners for target practice? All it takes is for Good People to do nothing. Wake up America and see what is happening to OUR beloved America.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/us/no-charges-in-2010-shooting-of-a-fl...®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
4
Those who can't teach.
Those who can't be real cops become campus cops.
Those who can't be real cops become campus cops.
1
Thanks, Tess, for your slamming of every teacher in the country. Sure, we're all a bunch of dropouts from the hard work of making it on our own.
Oh, and by the way, your first line SHOULD read: Those who can't COMMA teach (Those who can't, teach)
Oh, and by the way, your first line SHOULD read: Those who can't COMMA teach (Those who can't, teach)
Before we criticize our police officers for not performing their duties in the most professional way, let’s ask ourselves have we performed our jobs in the most professional way all the time?
However, if we were a little bit slackers at those moments, has somebody been rude and insulting to us?
If they were, would we argue back and escalate the initial problem?
If we treated the police officers in the same way we would like to be treated, a lot of problems would be prevented…
However, if we were a little bit slackers at those moments, has somebody been rude and insulting to us?
If they were, would we argue back and escalate the initial problem?
If we treated the police officers in the same way we would like to be treated, a lot of problems would be prevented…
1
I have zero respect for cops. They think they can take a gun and shoot someone in the head - -because he doesn't have a driver's license with him? Absolutely no respect for cops.
1
Teachers get fired if they lose their tempers and even SAY something rude or thoughtless.
Please. Cops have WAY more latitude than any other subset of society.
Please. Cops have WAY more latitude than any other subset of society.
Most people don't have a license to kill at a whim and cover it up, rude or not.
1
Please, never argue with any police officer.
You are just wasting his time and your energy.
If they acted unprofessionally or encroached upon your civil rights, it might be a matter of wrong training. In that case, that’s systematic failure.
The systematic failures are solved by proving your case to their supervisors, mayors and governors, not by arguing with any single officer…
You are just wasting his time and your energy.
If they acted unprofessionally or encroached upon your civil rights, it might be a matter of wrong training. In that case, that’s systematic failure.
The systematic failures are solved by proving your case to their supervisors, mayors and governors, not by arguing with any single officer…
2
It's a simple issue. When a cop stops you, it is in YOUR best interest to "play the game", be cooperative, obey his orders and get out of the situation. I dislike the mentality of most cops. As a woman, I have had my share of encounters where it's about them being macho and wanting to be in charge so I give him what he wants. And it works. I will not be stubborn, difficult, uncooperative to a cop so I can subsequently man-handled, arrested and put in jail for not listening to his orders. I like myself and I like my life too much. That's the real lesson here.
6
It's not as simple as obeying a police officers order. I guarantee, as a white female, I am treated differently than any minority male or female. I don't fear that one of my daughters might get killed when stopped by police. When are we Americans going to realize that racism is still a big issue in this country? I cannot read about one more senseless killing of someone "driving while black"! This should not be happening anywhere. And people who justify it somehow are just pathetic.
2
Because the cop will kill you if he doesn't like your answer.
The officer's defense is predicated on the car being put into drive, being dragged by the car, and subsequently discharging a round from his sidearm; fearing for his life. Accordingly, IF his being dragged is proven to be true, then that IS a life-threatening situation. Note: if you watch closely, this video alone shows the silver car two or three car lengths from the victim's car. When the officer gets back on his feet he is within feet of the silver car. This alone gives some credence to his being dragged for some undetermined distance. Again, that is for investigators and further evaluation of the evidence to determine. Additionally, the defense claims there's another video (presumably the police cruiser's dashboard camera). If that video shows the officer being dragged then he has a defense. If it doesn't then the officer has no defense. End of story. Let investigators do what needs done to bring justice.
5
Nope. Watch a slow motion/stop action video of this event. You can find them on YouTube. The fatal shot is fired before the car moves. End of story.
1
Watch the real, entire video. The cop reached in, jerked the guys arm down and shot him in the face, then the car rollwed forward
Imagine if the majority of the police were black, and they were shooting mainly white young males?
10
The majority of police will soon be either black or Hispanic because whites will quit joining police forces.
Another article in today's New York Times is about four police officers being not being charged when they shot and killed a robbery suspect. The article says, "Four officers fired their weapons 19 times. Mr. Kato, who had a long criminal record, was hit by 10 bullets and died." The rest of the story is the man robbed a pharmacy and the clerk put a bottle with GPS tracking in the bag of drugs she gave him. EIGHT officers, probably in separate cars, chased the suspect and stopped and surrounded his car. Four officers went to the car and when the suspect reached for a gun they ALL shot multiple times. Trade the cars for horses and you have wild west target practice by wild west sheriffs. It is NOT acceptable. We now have a hunt and kill police/military force in much of America and the vast majority of Americans detest it and DEMAND CHANGE.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/nyregion/grand-jury-clears-four-new-yo...®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/30/nyregion/grand-jury-clears-four-new-yo...®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well
3
As a white male this makes me sick to my stomach. In fact, all of these recent shootings of unarmed individuals makes me sick. I am so SICK AND TIRED of reading the news every day and having to hear about some unarmed individual getting murdered in cold blood. Be it that you are black, white, green, orange, blue all of these unjustified killings are getting way out of control. Unlike the media portrayal, this is not a white vs. black issue. This is an issue of policemen/woman who get a nice new shiny badge and think that they are untouchable vs. unarmed civilians (white or black....it doesn't matter. The media only shows us these kinds of stories but is happening to everyone regardless of race across the country). Like almost everyone I cannot come up with a universal answer to all of these murders. What I do know however is that this needs to stop....immediately. I do think that these body cameras are a step in the right direction because for cases like this, we have clear cut evidence that this was indeed murder. But this is not enough...we need multiple steps in the right direction. Perhaps when officers are in the academy we need more real life training. What I mean by that is throw that cadet in various intense situations (controlled of course) and see what their first reactions are. That could give you a better opportunity to see how they react in high pressure situations and see if they are actually cut out for the police force or not.
11
Last year I moved to an upper middle class dominantly white suburb of a major city. Since then I’ve been pulled over 6 times driving while black. My list of offenses:
- Ticketed because my bike rack covered part of a number on my license plate.
- My car matched the description of a car that was stolen in the next suburb over. I was questioned and had my car searched.
- Ticketed for the light being out on my license plate.
- Ticketed for driving 43 in a 40.
- Ticketed for no seat belt despite the fact that I was stopped on the shoulder, hazard lights on, looking for my work badge. Same cop as #1.
- I was pulled over because the officer said he saw me drinking alcohol (it was water). The water was in my gym bag and he wanted to see it. I asked permission and by the time I removed it, his gun was out at his side. He inspected the bottle and let me go. No ticket.
None of this has happened to any of my neighbors. This is just 6 times in my life thus far and I grew angrier each and every time. I can’t imagine having to deal with this much longer as my frustration and fear are competing with my judgement. So when I read comments that tell black people to be respectful, non-confrontational, not to ask questions and to comply at all times, I wonder how many times those people get pulled over in a month or a year and how many times you’re interrogated simply because you exist and have subsequently had to fear for your life just for opening your mouth.
- Ticketed because my bike rack covered part of a number on my license plate.
- My car matched the description of a car that was stolen in the next suburb over. I was questioned and had my car searched.
- Ticketed for the light being out on my license plate.
- Ticketed for driving 43 in a 40.
- Ticketed for no seat belt despite the fact that I was stopped on the shoulder, hazard lights on, looking for my work badge. Same cop as #1.
- I was pulled over because the officer said he saw me drinking alcohol (it was water). The water was in my gym bag and he wanted to see it. I asked permission and by the time I removed it, his gun was out at his side. He inspected the bottle and let me go. No ticket.
None of this has happened to any of my neighbors. This is just 6 times in my life thus far and I grew angrier each and every time. I can’t imagine having to deal with this much longer as my frustration and fear are competing with my judgement. So when I read comments that tell black people to be respectful, non-confrontational, not to ask questions and to comply at all times, I wonder how many times those people get pulled over in a month or a year and how many times you’re interrogated simply because you exist and have subsequently had to fear for your life just for opening your mouth.
44
I agree with you completely, but it's probably a good survival strategy to swallow your anger and comply; that way you can write to The Times to complain about your treatment instead of having your next traffic stop be reported here.
FWIW, if I get stopped, I make sure to keep both hands visible (at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel), smile, and resist the urge to say anything snarky. My assumption is that the cop is armed, dangerous, and scared... and probably not too bright.
FWIW, if I get stopped, I make sure to keep both hands visible (at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel), smile, and resist the urge to say anything snarky. My assumption is that the cop is armed, dangerous, and scared... and probably not too bright.
In his Facebook manifesto, Dylann Roof citied black-on-white murders and his perception that the new media unfairly focuses on white-on-black violence while ignoring black-on-white violence as his motivation for the Charleston church massacre. His obsession with black-on-white murders sprang from a visit to a white supremacist website. The website, hosted by the Council of Conservative Citizens, focuses exclusively on black-on-white violence while ignoring black-on-white violence. In its coverage of police homicides, the New York Time emulates the Council of Conservative Citizens. The Timers focuses almost exclusively on police homicides in which the police officers are white and the victims are black. As the comments to this article reveals, this leaves Times readers with the impression that most police homicide victims are black. In reality, about 70 percent of police homicide victims are white (including Hispanics) while about 30 percent are black. The Times would should point out that police homicide victims are disproportionately black, but it should also out that a disproportionate number of murdered police officers are killed by blacks. The Times’ unbalanced reporting contributes to racial hatred.
3
Sounds like your are excusing cops for murder.
John Jay College of Criminal Justice, the premier Social Scientists, need to prepare the case-by-case study of the multiple variables involved in the obvious police and citizen crisis we are undergoing over the past several years, including incidences of both police and civilians making the ultimate poor decision to act badly towards one another - this inhumanity cannot continue to prevail - we have, however, made progress in punishing those responsible in either side of the formula - so we can rest assured that it will continue on that path to social justice.
Patriot act effect; Todays Islam immigration,Somalia,Yeman etc.
You get pulled over and your black. Your best behavior should be up front. You may be suspect?
You have NO ID,you do not respond to the Officers demands then try to flee the scene? To many unknowns for the officer to allow you to flee the traffic stop.
You are doing what ever happens next to yourself.
You get pulled over and your black. Your best behavior should be up front. You may be suspect?
You have NO ID,you do not respond to the Officers demands then try to flee the scene? To many unknowns for the officer to allow you to flee the traffic stop.
You are doing what ever happens next to yourself.
2
Please,
Never argue with any police officer.
If they did their jobs unprofessionally and encroached upon your civil rights, just contact their supervisors, city mayors, state governors or the judges.
Those are the proper avenues to discuss any unprofessional conduct.
If you are trying to argue with any police officer, you put both of you at grave danger…
Never argue with any police officer.
If they did their jobs unprofessionally and encroached upon your civil rights, just contact their supervisors, city mayors, state governors or the judges.
Those are the proper avenues to discuss any unprofessional conduct.
If you are trying to argue with any police officer, you put both of you at grave danger…
3
"A third officer, he wrote, said he saw Officer Tensing being dragged."
Why is this "third officer" not being prosecuted also, for a number of charges, obstruction, interference, false report, aidding & abiding, accessory, to name a few.....
& also, unfortunately Mr. Deters, not to take anything away from your efforts, very well done, we the people do appreciate them, & you are correct, this is NOT Afghanistan, but the fact of the matter, the politically incorrect reality, if you will, is that there are thousands & thousands of police officers all across the United States that, like the defendant, officer "Tensing", should not have ever been allowed to be police officers, & the kind of atrocious, asinine, appalling, sociopathic, abusive behavior such as that of the defendant, officer "Tensing", occurs every day, all over America, & contrary to popular media influenced perception, its happening to every color & every kind, without prejudiced, & its only gonna get worse because most prosecutors ARE NOT on the side of the people, as you good sir, clearly are, but instead are on the side of the "code of the blue", if you will, along with the police officers they work with daily, which is an absurd idea to began with anyway, the only code the police should ever honor & uphold is a code to protect honor defend & serve us, the people, not each other when they commit crimes & violate civil rights, that, in of itself, is the real problem that must be rectified.......
Why is this "third officer" not being prosecuted also, for a number of charges, obstruction, interference, false report, aidding & abiding, accessory, to name a few.....
& also, unfortunately Mr. Deters, not to take anything away from your efforts, very well done, we the people do appreciate them, & you are correct, this is NOT Afghanistan, but the fact of the matter, the politically incorrect reality, if you will, is that there are thousands & thousands of police officers all across the United States that, like the defendant, officer "Tensing", should not have ever been allowed to be police officers, & the kind of atrocious, asinine, appalling, sociopathic, abusive behavior such as that of the defendant, officer "Tensing", occurs every day, all over America, & contrary to popular media influenced perception, its happening to every color & every kind, without prejudiced, & its only gonna get worse because most prosecutors ARE NOT on the side of the people, as you good sir, clearly are, but instead are on the side of the "code of the blue", if you will, along with the police officers they work with daily, which is an absurd idea to began with anyway, the only code the police should ever honor & uphold is a code to protect honor defend & serve us, the people, not each other when they commit crimes & violate civil rights, that, in of itself, is the real problem that must be rectified.......
5
An acquaintance once told me she stopped believing police accounts the day her car was struck by a police car that blew through a stop sign. Within 5 minutes she was surrounded by police officers claiming to have seen her cause the accident. They'd not been there, but they were standing up for a fellow cop.
12
What all black people noticed, and I am sure was overlooked by many white people, is the very first question he asks.
"Is this your car?"
This is only a question black people hear during routine traffic stops. With no reason to suspect he was driving a stolen car except that he was black, this question shows what bias we all live with. As a student, I was asked whether my backpack contained drugs as I was walking to school with no other interaction.
Technology is the only thing here that makes me happy. What is shocking to many whites, is how we live in America. We grow up being told stories like this, we grow up being fearful of cops.
This is not the same America white people live in.
"Is this your car?"
This is only a question black people hear during routine traffic stops. With no reason to suspect he was driving a stolen car except that he was black, this question shows what bias we all live with. As a student, I was asked whether my backpack contained drugs as I was walking to school with no other interaction.
Technology is the only thing here that makes me happy. What is shocking to many whites, is how we live in America. We grow up being told stories like this, we grow up being fearful of cops.
This is not the same America white people live in.
13
My husband and I are both white and we are routinely asked if our cars are ours when we are pulled over. I don't think anything of it. It doesn't mean they think it's stolen, there are other means to drive a car that doesn't belong to you, lol.
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...
In a statement, the university’s president, Santa J. Ono, said the university would "take necessary steps to address any training, staffing and hiring policy issues that may be indicated by this tragic event."
FIRE THE ENTIRE UPPER ADMINISTRATION AND BOARD OF TRUSTEES!
In a statement, the university’s president, Santa J. Ono, said the university would "take necessary steps to address any training, staffing and hiring policy issues that may be indicated by this tragic event."
FIRE THE ENTIRE UPPER ADMINISTRATION AND BOARD OF TRUSTEES!
3
What we need is to release all the instances of black men killing or attacking cops. Guess what. You will find very few examples.
The next question is, Why can't we hire people who can de-escalate?
A young college student (caucasian) tripping on acid, naked, waving a hammer from over 20 feet away was shot by police the other day in Colorado. And what about Gideon Busch ? Remember him? Look him up. Seriiously, these are our city's finest?
God help our cities. God help us.
The next question is, Why can't we hire people who can de-escalate?
A young college student (caucasian) tripping on acid, naked, waving a hammer from over 20 feet away was shot by police the other day in Colorado. And what about Gideon Busch ? Remember him? Look him up. Seriiously, these are our city's finest?
God help our cities. God help us.
4
This is a tragedy without a doubt. Murder? Maybe. Did the Officer clearly make a horribly wrong decision that resulted in an innocent man's death? Yes. However, the driver should have never pulled away and sped off. That didn't give the officer the right to fire, but in that split second one round was fired. I am thankful for the new technological advances that have allowed us to deploy hd cameras so cheaply to cover these issues. The driver made a minor mistake, and the officer made a terrible life ending one. Police procedure to stop this is simple. Turn OFF the engine at the beginning of the stop. Hopefully, we see smarter police procedures that make awful things like this thing of the past. I do not see this as racially motivated like the other recent incidents simply because the driver was in his vehicle speeding away. Everyone can admit that is very dangerous to the motorist, , the officer, and nearby pedestrians. Again, not worth being shot over, but this needs to be held in account when the officer faces trial. No indication of that video made me think it was racially motivated. Maybe more evidence will emerge. But as of now I can't say this was racially motivated. My prayers go out to the family of Mr. Dubose, and those for the officer involved. This is truly a tragedy.
2
Certainly the officer acted inappropriately for the situation and should be subject to criminal charges. I see a common thread in many of these white/black encounters which are happening all too often - why can't the victims cooperate with the officers? Mr. Dubose (and let's forget for the moment he had a bottle of Gin in the front seat) was asked a very simple "yes or no" question which he just didn't answer - perhaps someone can explain that mentality to me. Perhaps he was driving under the influence? Let's wake up and smell the coffee - cooperation with law enforcement should be second nature not an opportunity to engage in conflict.
3
Yeah because if you answer the wrong way, the cop will kill you.
I feel the need to take another shower after wading through some of the comments here. The offensive ones aren't as blatant as you'll find elsewhere, but there's still plenty of material that is disturbing and rather sickening.
I'm all in favor of free and open debate, and in general the Times has some of the most intelligent and thoughtful reader commentary. But sometimes, as in situations like this, the comments are stomach-turning and intentionally provocative, and do nothing to further legitimate discussion.
I'm all in favor of free and open debate, and in general the Times has some of the most intelligent and thoughtful reader commentary. But sometimes, as in situations like this, the comments are stomach-turning and intentionally provocative, and do nothing to further legitimate discussion.
8
Can you please provide an example? I see none of this.
I watched the video and until the time that Dubose attempted to flee the scene, officer Tensing's behavior was very professional. Had Dubose complied with Tensing's request exit the vehicle, the fatal shooting would never happen.
This does not mean I believe Tensing's actions were appropriate; they were not. However, Dubose did not have a license with him, there was an open empty bottle of Gin, and Tensing's request for Dubose to exit the vehicle, especially given the presence of an empty liquor bottle, is not unreasonable or racist.
Tensing may have exaggerated his versions of events, but if Dubose's BAC comes back at elevated levels, does that then not justify Tensing shooting a fleeing individual who presents an immediate danger to the general public.
This does not mean I believe Tensing's actions were appropriate; they were not. However, Dubose did not have a license with him, there was an open empty bottle of Gin, and Tensing's request for Dubose to exit the vehicle, especially given the presence of an empty liquor bottle, is not unreasonable or racist.
Tensing may have exaggerated his versions of events, but if Dubose's BAC comes back at elevated levels, does that then not justify Tensing shooting a fleeing individual who presents an immediate danger to the general public.
3
The bottle of gin does not look empty or open to me.
2
We clearly didn't watch same video.
He was not fleeing. He was shot in the head. Fleeing from a traffic stop is not a reason to kill someone.
My dear fellow Americans,
May I ask you for a favor?
Before we continue with this endless finger pointing, criticism and public lynching of our police officers, let’s remember those ancient words of wisdom:
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone…
If we really loved our police officers whom we entrusted with truly unthankful role of enforcing the public laws we voted for and enacted, no miniscule traffic stop or minor grievance would escalate to a deadly shooting.
If a police officer who stopped you were rude and stressed, you should show him how to be polite and loving person.
Trust me, they might have been in more conflict situations that very morning than you all year long.
They are just the humans like all of us.
If you see they are irritated and tense, help them relax and make their duties much easier….
It takes two to dance. It take two to argue…
May I ask you for a favor?
Before we continue with this endless finger pointing, criticism and public lynching of our police officers, let’s remember those ancient words of wisdom:
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone…
If we really loved our police officers whom we entrusted with truly unthankful role of enforcing the public laws we voted for and enacted, no miniscule traffic stop or minor grievance would escalate to a deadly shooting.
If a police officer who stopped you were rude and stressed, you should show him how to be polite and loving person.
Trust me, they might have been in more conflict situations that very morning than you all year long.
They are just the humans like all of us.
If you see they are irritated and tense, help them relax and make their duties much easier….
It takes two to dance. It take two to argue…
2
My dear Kenan Porobic,
We millions of Americans who are casting [verbal] stones at Officer Tensing are doing so out of grief, not sin. We are doing this out of utter shock that Mr. Tensing cast that first stone.
We millions of Americans who are casting [verbal] stones at Officer Tensing are doing so out of grief, not sin. We are doing this out of utter shock that Mr. Tensing cast that first stone.
5
There are no special class of people in America no matter what the news has been telling you . People should be treated like they act and be punished for their crimes .
1
Shot in the head for not having a driver's license?
Sadly, today's American police officer is NOT necessarily your neighborhood friend. I've known many police officers over the years and in the early 70s I was one for a brief period. To but it ever so bluntly, today's U.S. local police have a lot more in common with the SS and SD of Germany in the 30s and 40s than they do with 'ordinary' American citizens. They are not the friendly city beat walkers that we grew up respecting, but a para-military force unto themselves, very different from Average Citizen Joe - and wanting it that way. Perhaps more common on Red or Southern states, this difference exists even in Northern/Blue states and even among the few badge wearers who consider themselves a Blue-Leaning. Every public encounter has a secondary motive that is never mentioned: data collection. I'm not a lawyer - don't even play one on TV, but when approached by police, be careful!! Be polite and smile if possible, but never volunteer any information. Answer relevant questions as simply as possible and do not allow them to draw you out. If they want to enter your space or examine your property, ask if they have a warrant and politely request a copy. If there is no warrant, politely decline access and permission. Takes names and badge numbers! If reasonably possible, hit RECORD on a phone or over device; pictures are even better.
As much as I hate having to say this, today's American police 'authorities' are NOT your best friend. Officer McCarthy is long gone!!
As much as I hate having to say this, today's American police 'authorities' are NOT your best friend. Officer McCarthy is long gone!!
6
So, basically wannabe Dirty Harry here was trying to be a tough guy...
I wonder how ex-lawmen fare in prison?
I wonder how ex-lawmen fare in prison?
6
There seems to be a disturbing sameness to all of these killings: A cop whose life is not being threatened shoots and kills someone who is unarmed. These incidents occurred in different cities and across the country, so they can't be attributed to an isolated, local problem with police recruitment or training. The vast majority of police officers do not murder people, therefore, these incidents are being perpetrated by a certain low percent of them. But because the killings occur everywhere, and because there are police everywhere, they are likely to occur over and over. They may not stop until police officers everywhere are re-examined for their fitness to serve. Perhaps all police officers should be required to re-apply for their jobs, and in the process, weeding out the ones who are prone to lethal violence.
4
Our government is complicit in these murders if it does not take action. There have been too many killings to pretend this is not a common nationwide issue of justice and civil rights.
If I were black, I would conclude that the government is actually ok with killing innocent black people, that they want to kill a few to keep the rest "in their place", that white racism is sanctioned and is the majority view in police departments. Is that the kind of country we really live in?
We have seen enough of these cases. It's time for legislative action and enforcement.
If I were black, I would conclude that the government is actually ok with killing innocent black people, that they want to kill a few to keep the rest "in their place", that white racism is sanctioned and is the majority view in police departments. Is that the kind of country we really live in?
We have seen enough of these cases. It's time for legislative action and enforcement.
5
I fully agree that this was a heinous crime by the officer. The justice system should move on with this case. The shooting seemed to anyone who saw the film as senseless.
But later in the article, the writer equates this shooting with a number of others, and that simply is not valid. That is the common category error seen so much in today's uneducated society. This shooting was NOT in the same category of Ferguson, MO or Baltimore. Those involved crimes, this one did not. They are not the same at all. This one deserves to be prosecuted fully; the others involved the commission of crimes and resisting arrest. I am sure this cop will use the resisting argument, but the film belies that rationale. This skin-head type just got mad and killed a guy.
But later in the article, the writer equates this shooting with a number of others, and that simply is not valid. That is the common category error seen so much in today's uneducated society. This shooting was NOT in the same category of Ferguson, MO or Baltimore. Those involved crimes, this one did not. They are not the same at all. This one deserves to be prosecuted fully; the others involved the commission of crimes and resisting arrest. I am sure this cop will use the resisting argument, but the film belies that rationale. This skin-head type just got mad and killed a guy.
1
I am happy that this unfortunate occurrence was caught on video tape, and that this officer has been charged with murder. However, several comments made by the county prosecutor and the actions of the officers at the scene leave me with more questions, and highlight the politics behind the response (which, was for once what you would expect of a clearly unjustified killing).
I wonder:
1. If this was a Cincinnati P.D. officer, rather than of University of Cincinnati officer, would the outcome (comments and charges by county prosecutor) have been the same?
2. How can the prosecutor possibly say that this does not happen in America, when it mistreatment and murder by police is increasingly being caught on tape?
Mr. Deters states, “This office has probably reviewed 100 police shootings, and this is the first time we’ve thought, ‘This is without question a murder,’.” He also states that Officer Tensing “should never have been a police officer.” City police department officers view university police officers with disdain, so throwing this guy under the bus in the name of justice was an easy task. Looking beneath the surface of all this rhetoric, one might question whether a change in the level of integrity of America's judicial system is occurring, or is it simply being brought to its knees in surrender to incontrovertible evidence made available by advancements in technology? Kudos for the emergence of body cameras.
I wonder:
1. If this was a Cincinnati P.D. officer, rather than of University of Cincinnati officer, would the outcome (comments and charges by county prosecutor) have been the same?
2. How can the prosecutor possibly say that this does not happen in America, when it mistreatment and murder by police is increasingly being caught on tape?
Mr. Deters states, “This office has probably reviewed 100 police shootings, and this is the first time we’ve thought, ‘This is without question a murder,’.” He also states that Officer Tensing “should never have been a police officer.” City police department officers view university police officers with disdain, so throwing this guy under the bus in the name of justice was an easy task. Looking beneath the surface of all this rhetoric, one might question whether a change in the level of integrity of America's judicial system is occurring, or is it simply being brought to its knees in surrender to incontrovertible evidence made available by advancements in technology? Kudos for the emergence of body cameras.
5
If Tensing felt compelled to stop DuBose from fleeing, he could have shot out the tires and/or called for help in following and re-apprehending. He could have gotten back in his patrol car, followed DuBose and called for backup in re-apprehending. Even a civlian can see that the officer had several alternatives to shooting the man dead. Instead he panicked or became angry.
9
The NYT video of this incident was edited. I wouldn't make any judgment if this cam video was all I could use.
The video has a brief, unexplained moment in which the body-cam, which is chest mounted, is pointed skyward. You can see clouds directly overhead, as if the officer had fallen and gotten back up. NBC News reported yesterday that the defense lawyers say there is a second video that supports the officer's account. People should wait to see if the second video furnishes exculpatory evidence before making up their minds.
You perfectly qualify to be the member of the jury in this officer's criminal trial. This is the jury the defense lawyers dream about.
1
And if there was video of that moron George Zimmerman the night he murdered Tayvon Martin -- we'd be seeing the same thing -- a white guy with a gun who decided it was OK to murder a black man and then lie about what happened knowing he'd get off. Thankfully this time, there is video and hopefully this white "cop" will get the death penalty for murder.
6
They ought to have two new requirements for being on the police: Intelligence and decency. You never can tell, it might just work, it certainly hasn't been tried yet. - George Carlin
7
Media double standards. 10 Black on Black deaths over a Chicago weekend wouldn't even make it to the obscure pages of any leading newspaper. Daily Black and Latino violence in Dorchester, MA is not news worthy. Now we are putting the life's of duty bound Police Officers in danger by painting them with a prejudiced malicious brush. Imagine the civil society when Law Officers abstain from doing their duty properly. We all wouldn't be here at all to speak about this issue.
1
Do White on White crimes get reported by the media? Do you understand why police killing unarmed citizens is a problem?
2
First of all that's not true that "Black on Black" violence doesn't make the front pages. Every newspaper, including those in Chicago, gives plenty of coverage to such mayhem.
Secondly does anyone use the terms "White on White " or "Hispanic on Hispanic" or "Asian on Asian" violence to dismiss instances of police wrongdoing? No they do not. Why is that? It's because the people who are quick to mewl about "Black on Black" violence couldn't care less about black victims, whether they're murdered by police or civilians.
Lastly it is hardly putting the lives of police officers in danger to insist that they follow the law and be punished when they don't. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously has little understanding of or appreciation for the Bill of Rights.
Secondly does anyone use the terms "White on White " or "Hispanic on Hispanic" or "Asian on Asian" violence to dismiss instances of police wrongdoing? No they do not. Why is that? It's because the people who are quick to mewl about "Black on Black" violence couldn't care less about black victims, whether they're murdered by police or civilians.
Lastly it is hardly putting the lives of police officers in danger to insist that they follow the law and be punished when they don't. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously has little understanding of or appreciation for the Bill of Rights.
3
As far as I know, you, I, Mr. Samuel Dubose, and Blacks in Chicago dying every weekend, and all the readers of NYT are born with the same fundamental rights, and every effort should be made to protect our constitutional rights
If you consider Officer Tensing's actions were duty bound, is it possible your other country club members have the same opinion?
If you consider Officer Tensing's actions were duty bound, is it possible your other country club members have the same opinion?
7
When someone says, "although I don't condone the police officer's actions, he/she was not following the officer's orders..."
Wrong. That someone IS condoning the officer's actions.
As long as the victim was non-threatening, any of the victim's actions that led up to a shooting by a police officer is completely, unequivocally, utterly, thoroughly immaterial.
And while this problem of race relations is real and ugly, it seems to be that another problem is the poor training job the officer received.
Terrible and preventable horror that is tragically more common than white-america previously thought.
Wrong. That someone IS condoning the officer's actions.
As long as the victim was non-threatening, any of the victim's actions that led up to a shooting by a police officer is completely, unequivocally, utterly, thoroughly immaterial.
And while this problem of race relations is real and ugly, it seems to be that another problem is the poor training job the officer received.
Terrible and preventable horror that is tragically more common than white-america previously thought.
11
Keep in mind that attempting to drive away from an officer that has his arm in your car can be considered threatening.
Perhaps it should be standard procedure for anyone pulled over by a cop to immediately give him/her their keys and only have them returned when the cop authorizes them to leave. The driver in this case would still be with us if he hadn't been able to drive off. That doesn't excuse the psycho cop, but psycho cops are out there. Just as cops always have to be alert to a situation escalating, the public should realize by now that we are more likely to be the losers in those situations and there is no guarantee that cops won't go crazy on us. They have the guns.
If I'm stopped by an officer and they take my keys, that means I'm under arrest; so if a cop pulls me over and proceeds to take my keys FIRST with NO prior statement regarding a valid LEGAL reason in him/her doing so - we have issues as American citizens. You like this policy? Then live in Russia.
2
As has become the norm for these tragic incidents there are many questions about the account as presented.
Absent information indicating outstanding warrants or a BOLO, the response in a situation of this type should be for the officer to disengage and call for assistance.
For all that this officer did incorrectly and in spite of the lethal consequences, one wonders why the driver (victim) responded as he did to a “routine” traffic stop?
The Cincinnati Prosecutor’s public rhetoric regarding the case was inflamed, inappropriate and unprofessional.
One more point, there really are no routine traffic stops, every time a police officer must approach a vehicle that has been stopped there is the potential for a high risk encounter that can be life threatening to him or her.
Absent information indicating outstanding warrants or a BOLO, the response in a situation of this type should be for the officer to disengage and call for assistance.
For all that this officer did incorrectly and in spite of the lethal consequences, one wonders why the driver (victim) responded as he did to a “routine” traffic stop?
The Cincinnati Prosecutor’s public rhetoric regarding the case was inflamed, inappropriate and unprofessional.
One more point, there really are no routine traffic stops, every time a police officer must approach a vehicle that has been stopped there is the potential for a high risk encounter that can be life threatening to him or her.
8
First, none of your questions are the most essential questions in the matter.
What you **are** doing is laying the groundwork to blame the victim. Are you sure you fool good doing that?
You say:
"one wonders why the driver (victim) responded as he did to a “routine” traffic stop?"
Apparently because in your view that justifies a single deadly shot to the head?
3
There are a lot of people in police work who shouldn't be. I hope hiring practices change radically, and soon. I hope the University takes responsibility for their police force. I hope the persons and policies that led to the hiring of this young man are exposed. I hope they realize what they are doing and stop it. We need to completely revise our standards for police officer qualifications, fire everyone and have them re-apply for their old jobs based on the new standards. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
4
There is certainly something wrong about Police and Black people condition.
One can only conclude these incidents, Police engagement rules were clearly wrong.
You cannot blame Black people being very uncooperative when they face up with police, clearly they were get killed for no reason what so ever.
As a White person, I am sorry but I am scared to face up with police, certainly their engagement has fundamental problems.
Let's be clear we need a overhaul in entire country, this is not a situation we can stand as a democratic country.
One can only conclude these incidents, Police engagement rules were clearly wrong.
You cannot blame Black people being very uncooperative when they face up with police, clearly they were get killed for no reason what so ever.
As a White person, I am sorry but I am scared to face up with police, certainly their engagement has fundamental problems.
Let's be clear we need a overhaul in entire country, this is not a situation we can stand as a democratic country.
2
The NYT ought to join the 21st c. Why so obsessed about race and sexuality? The whole country has moved beyond that. It only appears not because of the Times's hand selected cases to support its political agenda.
2
I think it's time for people to recognize that they have it the wrong way round. This DOESN'T happen in Afghanistan. It DOES happen in the United States.
10
My review of the video leads me to believe that this officer was not well trained. His method and manner of questioning Mr. Dubose and conducting the investigation show several mistakes that a well-trained police would not commit. "Sloppy" is the word that comes to mind; he holds little control over the situation.
The fatal encounter ensues when Mr. Dubose starts or attempts to start the vehicle. A brief struggle ensues and Officer Tensing responds by shooting Mr. Dubose in the head. Deadly force may only be used by an officer when faced with (or objectively perceived to be faced with ) force against the officer or others that is deadly or likely to cause significant bodily harm. I don't see that here and any objective reviewer would be hard-pressed to see it. If Mr. Dubose takes off in the car, then he takes off and protocols are followed for such a situation. Killing the man was not the proper response.
Officer Tensing's attorney's statement that Tensing "should not have been a police officer" is telling. He should not have been. Now, an innocent man is dead.
Body and dashboard cams should be mandatory. They provide compelling video that protects both civilians and exonerates wrongly accused police officers.
The fatal encounter ensues when Mr. Dubose starts or attempts to start the vehicle. A brief struggle ensues and Officer Tensing responds by shooting Mr. Dubose in the head. Deadly force may only be used by an officer when faced with (or objectively perceived to be faced with ) force against the officer or others that is deadly or likely to cause significant bodily harm. I don't see that here and any objective reviewer would be hard-pressed to see it. If Mr. Dubose takes off in the car, then he takes off and protocols are followed for such a situation. Killing the man was not the proper response.
Officer Tensing's attorney's statement that Tensing "should not have been a police officer" is telling. He should not have been. Now, an innocent man is dead.
Body and dashboard cams should be mandatory. They provide compelling video that protects both civilians and exonerates wrongly accused police officers.
2
Even if the guy was "getting away" how far could he have gone ? What are the chances that, a guy who could not produce a driver's license is at risk of fleeing to a non-extradition treaty country ? How far away could he really have gone ? To Russia ? To Uzbekistan ?
4
How many people have to die before any police office who carries a gun is trained properly? It seems that these questions are raised afterwards.
4
A little explanation of the video:
It appears that just before Mr. Dubose was shot that he started or "revved" the car engine. Officer Tensing may have assumed that Dubose was going to flee. That is the only explanation that makes any sense.
Unfortunately, no one ever told Tensing that fleeing from a misdemeanor traffic violation is NOT a capitol crime.
It appears that just before Mr. Dubose was shot that he started or "revved" the car engine. Officer Tensing may have assumed that Dubose was going to flee. That is the only explanation that makes any sense.
Unfortunately, no one ever told Tensing that fleeing from a misdemeanor traffic violation is NOT a capitol crime.
Fox News is running America's Police Departments. To understand this problem you have to understand constituency groups and police departments constituency groups. To get elected, politicians put together constituency groups. The police department's constituency (a/k/a people who care about cops) are your ultra conservatives friendly faces of Fox. It is these peoples' vision of what cops should do that is the reality of America's law enforcement. Turn on your TV, you will hear Fox explain how this shooting was justified. This is why even where you have moderate elected officials, you have dangerous and oppressive police departments.
5
"these peoples' vision of what cops should do that is the reality of America's law enforcement"
I agree. In addition, these are the same people who refused to call the Charleston shooting an "act of terrorism" (but called it "an attack on Christianity". These constituents lack the ability to empathize with anyone outside of their world. This is a byproduct of white privilege.
I agree. In addition, these are the same people who refused to call the Charleston shooting an "act of terrorism" (but called it "an attack on Christianity". These constituents lack the ability to empathize with anyone outside of their world. This is a byproduct of white privilege.
1
Why are conservatives, white Christians, libertarians, and the tea party silent on this issue? They're quick to concoct government conspiracies about Obama declaring martial law or standing tall to defend anti-government racist Cliven Bundy. But here is a real, live example of agents of the state violating the liberty and freedom (their favorite words) of American citizens, and these folks won't even lift a finger. White Christians were even mum about the execution of nine church members. I see their silence as tacit support of any action that violates the constitutional rights of black citizens.
13
Why are blacks silent on the issue of black on black murders?
There have been five very recent murders of young black people in Baltimore by, most likely, black shooters. The one shooter that was caught is black.
Why are there no protests about this? Where are the people who think black lives matter?
One of the victims was a three year old little girl. Where is the outrage about this? Where are the protesters? Is her death different because the shooter was black?
She was a baby, for God's sake, and no one even notices or cares.
There have been five very recent murders of young black people in Baltimore by, most likely, black shooters. The one shooter that was caught is black.
Why are there no protests about this? Where are the people who think black lives matter?
One of the victims was a three year old little girl. Where is the outrage about this? Where are the protesters? Is her death different because the shooter was black?
She was a baby, for God's sake, and no one even notices or cares.
You make this such a derisive issue and all tainted to the victim whom in this
montage are all being questioned by the law. The other side are the daily atrocities most officers face in the line of duty. No article has yielded all the police deaths and shootings taken to protect their community, these never get the front page, instead the low life vagabonds who don't probably deserve the
treatment rendered but we only see that tact on the problem. Please publish both sides and interview police survivor families whose loved ones defended honorably and were stricken in the line of duty. All stories have another side.
montage are all being questioned by the law. The other side are the daily atrocities most officers face in the line of duty. No article has yielded all the police deaths and shootings taken to protect their community, these never get the front page, instead the low life vagabonds who don't probably deserve the
treatment rendered but we only see that tact on the problem. Please publish both sides and interview police survivor families whose loved ones defended honorably and were stricken in the line of duty. All stories have another side.
2
Yeah he's a "low life vagabond" because he didn't produce his driver's license so the cop is entitled to blow him away.
Yes. We need more and more indictments like this.
1
This whole disaster shows the absolute disintegration of American ethics. Racism, hatred, selfishness, skin deep self awareness only, and total sense of global superiority seems to be the definition of "being an American." The Roman Empire all over again.
5
It's been reported that some pedophiles (consciously or unconsciously) join the priesthood to have access to children. It's also been reported that another segment of our society--and certainly not all but some--who grapple with feelings of weakness and powerlessness (consciously or unconsciously, join the police force to overcompensate.
Thus, considering the seriousness and many challenges of this life/death position, there must be a more rigorous evaluation process. And that includes a stringent psychological evaluation and even meeting with a mental health professional for the purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
Even though I'm not a person of color, I learned to fear police. But I would prefer replacing fear with respect. But respect is earned. Unfortunately, we tend to register the negative and take the positive for granted.
For the many "good cops" dutifully and thoughtfully involved in policing and maintaining law and order in our communities and often under dire circumstances most of us couldn't imagine dealing with it must be devastating when one of their own goes off the deep end which unfairly gets reflected in one way or another on them all.
Thus, considering the seriousness and many challenges of this life/death position, there must be a more rigorous evaluation process. And that includes a stringent psychological evaluation and even meeting with a mental health professional for the purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
Even though I'm not a person of color, I learned to fear police. But I would prefer replacing fear with respect. But respect is earned. Unfortunately, we tend to register the negative and take the positive for granted.
For the many "good cops" dutifully and thoughtfully involved in policing and maintaining law and order in our communities and often under dire circumstances most of us couldn't imagine dealing with it must be devastating when one of their own goes off the deep end which unfairly gets reflected in one way or another on them all.
4
Cops lives matter. The initial issue is the rude, stupid, drunk and belligerent behavior of the driver. Not to mention the uncooperative stance to a question about a driver's license asked over a half dozen times in a calm and friendly manner. Having said hat I don't agree that "little wit" justifies being killed. But it's madness to ignore these facts.
3
"Cops lives matter"
Being truthful matters more!
Being truthful matters more!
1
"A third officer, he wrote, said he saw Officer Tensing being dragged"
Charge this 'officer' with perjury and fire him. Today.
Charge this 'officer' with perjury and fire him. Today.
9
This shooting appears to be totally unwarranted and it seems as though the officer falsified his report but I'll say it again, be respectful of the police and do what they say and you will not wind up like all of the examples you give in this article.
3
Well that depends. If a cop wants an excuse to kill you, he will find an excuse.
I really doubt that there are any cops out there that are looking for excuses to kill people, come on.
1
Who trained Officer Tensing before he was assigned a loaded gun? Was the officer tested after that training to make sure he understood his role and responsibility. As foolish use of guns by some officers - in different parts of the country in recent past - is giving bad name to hardworking police everywhere, this training should be made public, standardized and require continuing certification just like many other professions - Doctors for example - need to go through.
Please, please, don't tell me Officer Tensing was given his gun just like he was given his blue shirts and pants to start his job.
Please, please, don't tell me Officer Tensing was given his gun just like he was given his blue shirts and pants to start his job.
5
Where are Amnesty International and the United Nations condemnations against USA's government for these too frequent deaths of African-Americans at the hands of its law enforcements agents; or the flooding of USA's jails with African-Americans? These international agencies more often condemn such actions in 'poor' or 'developing' countries.
An African country's military with hands full in its war against Boko Haram, was recently cautioned by Amnesty International for brutality against the brutal Islamic terrorists in their country; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32991237 and http://nyti.ms/1Gl7iGr
Also, The UN law arm, ICC, relentlessly pursues African national leaders for crimes against humanity; http://gu.com/p/427kz/sbl
Do the frequent and routine loss of seeming innocent African-American lives at the hands of USA's Police; and the disproportionate social-wastage of their lives by USA's law-enforcement and Justice systems -which incarcerate too many of them and for too long periods- not qualify for investigation by these international bodies?
But they should, according to their statutes: for 'crimes against humanity' and USA's Courts and law-enforcement 'seeming unwillingness or inability to satisfactorily police itself against their own excesses' -considering their loop-sided and pre-loaded traditions against African-Americans in the country.
An African country's military with hands full in its war against Boko Haram, was recently cautioned by Amnesty International for brutality against the brutal Islamic terrorists in their country; http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32991237 and http://nyti.ms/1Gl7iGr
Also, The UN law arm, ICC, relentlessly pursues African national leaders for crimes against humanity; http://gu.com/p/427kz/sbl
Do the frequent and routine loss of seeming innocent African-American lives at the hands of USA's Police; and the disproportionate social-wastage of their lives by USA's law-enforcement and Justice systems -which incarcerate too many of them and for too long periods- not qualify for investigation by these international bodies?
But they should, according to their statutes: for 'crimes against humanity' and USA's Courts and law-enforcement 'seeming unwillingness or inability to satisfactorily police itself against their own excesses' -considering their loop-sided and pre-loaded traditions against African-Americans in the country.
2
More than 15 years ago we started the rah-rah - "don't question" authority mindset, watching Law & Order, CSI and other shows that glorify cops and the work they do 24-7. Then 9/11 happened and anyone in a uniform was automatically a hero, no questions asked. This mindset gelled up like cement in our collective public psyche. Most people still believe that anyone who gets stopped by police or arrested must be guilty. There is no presumption of innocence. Get shot by a cop? Must have done something to deserve that too. Even the standard for "deserving it" has devolved - irritating the cop is enough justification for some people. Personal responsibility is only on the "perp", never on the cop. The videos show this dynamic, but what is astounding is that the mindset is so solid that some people continue to believe that cops are always right even when this evidence shows otherwise. I'm just hoping it does not take 15 years of cell phone videos to turn this around.
9
This cop reached in pulled the victim's arm down and shot him in the face. Think on that. Then his good buds lied for him. Of course he wasn't going to get out of the car because "accidents happen" and the "perp was going for my gun\his waist", and he and every person of color knows that- as do people with with more than 2 neurons to rub together. Either way the man, the human being, was singled out by this guy to die. He pulled his arm down and shot him in the face. If it wasn't for the video, the cop would be strutting around bragginging about his righteous kill. It has to stop
4
To every white person on here who says the cop wasn't wrong in this incident.... Put your child in that car and a black officer behind the gun with everything happening exactly the same way.. Then tell yourself the same thing!!!!
4
Officer asked kindly for cooperation.. It's the new disrespect for law brought to you by Jolder/Obama etc
Judging from the six photos on the first page it would appear that the police have not stopped any white people. To have a better understanding of the whether there is a problem, and the scope of any problem, it would be helpful to have more evenly balanced reporting, in which you also covered situations in which white people were stopped by police. As quoted in the New York Times on 12/12/1993 (Herbert, Bob; "In America; A Sea Change on Crime") even Jesse Jackson said, "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery -- then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
To the extent these incidents are incidents of unreasonable use of force by the police, it is as likely the force is used out of the officer's justifiable fear (justified by black-on-black murder statistics), and not the exercise of power by an insecure, authoritarian racist cop.
The race baiting in this article does not help the situation.
To the extent these incidents are incidents of unreasonable use of force by the police, it is as likely the force is used out of the officer's justifiable fear (justified by black-on-black murder statistics), and not the exercise of power by an insecure, authoritarian racist cop.
The race baiting in this article does not help the situation.
Mr. Deters: "This doesn't happen in the United States, OK? This might happen in Afghanistan. People don't get shot for a traffic stop."
Actually, I think it happens far more frequently in the US than in Afghanistan. The delusion is truly horrifying.
Actually, I think it happens far more frequently in the US than in Afghanistan. The delusion is truly horrifying.
6
Campus police should not have guns.
5
Wrong. Not every campus is in some safe little Midwest town. I live near a major university that is close to a high crime area and college kids are often victims. We count on these cops just as much as the city ones.
As another poster made clear, there were several red flags in this case (ex., plate missing, bottle near driver, uncooperative responses). These could have escalated into something dangerous to the police officer and potentially citizens (ex., if the driver later killed someone while driving DWI).
Not every police officer will have the intuition or experience to assess these red flags and determine they are not potentially dangerous. Somewhere in the reporting on the other high profile cases was a statistic that police officers who are agreeable/friendly wind up getting hurt (killed?) more often.
What are the procedures for handling someone who resists arrest? Is it as dangerous a situation as police believe? Why can't there be procedures put in place to minimize immediate danger while allowing police to maintain control of the situation?
After all, we cannot simply allow people to stop following police commands. That's a recipe for bedlam.
Not every police officer will have the intuition or experience to assess these red flags and determine they are not potentially dangerous. Somewhere in the reporting on the other high profile cases was a statistic that police officers who are agreeable/friendly wind up getting hurt (killed?) more often.
What are the procedures for handling someone who resists arrest? Is it as dangerous a situation as police believe? Why can't there be procedures put in place to minimize immediate danger while allowing police to maintain control of the situation?
After all, we cannot simply allow people to stop following police commands. That's a recipe for bedlam.
6
I dont understand your questions in your 3rd paragraph. There are "procedures" dictated for all you ask in any established police dept. The campus cop did not follow them. You might want to ask if the campus cop was properly trained about those procedures since that seems more to the point.
5
I swore I wasn't going to comment on this story but your repetitive nonsense is just too much.
The "red flags" are all over the place-- in the behavior of the cop. He is obviously getting wound up and not listening to the victim. Understand-- racism is about *disconnection*, not some overt intent to do harm.
There's a slow motion version of the shooting itself available here:
http://tinyurl.com/p6rx7q6
Clearly someone in over his head and out of control.
This person is not psychologically fit to carry a gun. In fact, he is not psychologically fit to be an *unarmed* campus cop; as has been pointed out previously, at well-heeled institutions the security force is often well trained and well educated, and actually there to protect and serve.
Give it up AACNY; this was as bad a shooting as you can get.
The "red flags" are all over the place-- in the behavior of the cop. He is obviously getting wound up and not listening to the victim. Understand-- racism is about *disconnection*, not some overt intent to do harm.
There's a slow motion version of the shooting itself available here:
http://tinyurl.com/p6rx7q6
Clearly someone in over his head and out of control.
This person is not psychologically fit to carry a gun. In fact, he is not psychologically fit to be an *unarmed* campus cop; as has been pointed out previously, at well-heeled institutions the security force is often well trained and well educated, and actually there to protect and serve.
Give it up AACNY; this was as bad a shooting as you can get.
3
Even I wouldn't be afraid of an unarmed drunk man. He was mumbling his answers and nonthreatening to anyone. Had I, an unarmed woman, flagged him down for directions, I may have been on my way, but I certainly wouldn't be afraid! If cops are such cowards, they shouldn't be in that line of business!
Why would a Univerisity police officer have a gun? Was Mr. Dubose on University property? Did Officer Tensing have the right to threaten someone with a gun or arrest him for a minor traffic violation? Why didn't he call the local police department for support?
5
Pardon me, but your question would sound much more logical if US had gun control laws like other civilized countries.
2
What role does the University have in this incident? Do administrators expect their university police to carry a gun? If not, why did the officer have a gun that he could have used irresponsibly on a student? If they do expect them to carry a gun I fear for the students there.
2
White officers should not confront black people. That should be done by black officers.
4
That is silly. Officers should be trained to appropriately do their jobs - for all human beings. They work for us, all of us
3
Good idea. If a white officer walks into an armed robbery situation, with a black suspect, he should call for a black officer. If he's chasing a stolen car operated by a black suspect he should cease the pursuit and call in a black officer. And white officers being shot at by a black should run away and wait for........and so on. In all white police departments you ignore all black crime.
Huh? White officer was totally respectful .. Rap culture has created this environment of disrespect towards law enforcement, and it's bogus.. Ask Ice T the cop killer who plays a cop on TV
So, according to Mr. Deters -- the prosecutor -- pulling over a car with no license plate in Ohio is "a pretty chicken-crap stop." Good to know. If I was the po po in Ohio I would look the other way on every car that didn't have a license plate on it.
9
Well interesting that you say that, becuase the police do look the other for that horrible capitol infraction of the rules. Like for me, from NC with NO license plate on the front
1
I would very much like the NYT and others to publish some investigative reporting with hard data showing police killing people who are not black. I would truly like to know if that never occurs or if it just isn't as sensational.
11
That hard data is collected by local police you know.
1
As you know, "killing" and "murder" are two different things. I assume you mean how many unarmed white people are roughed up or shot in the head after being pulled over for minor traffic violations or for walking in the middle of the street. I actually would like to see that stat as well. I am sure unarmed white people get roughed up if they are poor or have no protection...but I am going to take a guess that shot in the head is a rarity for traffic offenders.
3
In 2012, according to the CDC, 140 blacks were killed by police. That same year 386 whites were killed by police. Over the 13-year period from 1999 to 2011, the CDC reports that 2,151 whites were killed by cops — and 1,130 blacks were killed by cops.
2
Thanks for the indictment but the test will be a conviction. An all white jury could insure there is no conviction.
1
Why do all these officers "fear for their safety" with such little provocation? If they're so easily frightened, and unable to distinguish truly dangerous situations from ordinary encounters, why on earth did they become policemen? If you aren't able to deal with the possibility danger in a rational and brave way, please get a desk job.
16
NM I couldn't agree with you more...that nervous......that edgy.........become a pencil pusher ....and get a desk job
2
It seems that the media chooses to only publicize cases where the cop is white and the person being shot is black. I guess sowing hatred and resentment is more of a goal than fostering harmony between the races.
9
Exactly. More whites are shot by cops but that's apparently not much of a news story.
Keep the reporting coming of these executions by police officers. Only way we can stop it is to have media coverage.
5
I was speaking to a friend once who used to be a police officer. The police are never rewarded for doing good/nice things for the public.
Like helping someone push a dead car to the side of the road. Bad example I know, but that is the general idea of the type of behavior we were speaking of that afternoon.
They are only rewarded for the number of tickets issued.
Insanely tough job for anyone, but to only reward 'tough' on crime behavior only reinforces us all as criminals first. Especially Blacks which stinks. This is clearly a systemic failure of a hiring process that hires inappropriate staff in the first place. The failure continues with poor training.
Like helping someone push a dead car to the side of the road. Bad example I know, but that is the general idea of the type of behavior we were speaking of that afternoon.
They are only rewarded for the number of tickets issued.
Insanely tough job for anyone, but to only reward 'tough' on crime behavior only reinforces us all as criminals first. Especially Blacks which stinks. This is clearly a systemic failure of a hiring process that hires inappropriate staff in the first place. The failure continues with poor training.
1
Black guys make white cops nervous. Maybe it has something to do with the crime rate and the statistics which show that black males are responsible for crime heavily out of proportion to their numbers.
Plus let us keep in mind that this cop was not a real cop, he was a university cop who may not have made the cut to be a real cop, none of which makes the cop any less guilty.
Plus let us keep in mind that this cop was not a real cop, he was a university cop who may not have made the cut to be a real cop, none of which makes the cop any less guilty.
6
White cops make black people nervous.
2
Here we go again........the thing that gets me is that these cops lie and stick together no matter what. None of them have the courage to step up and tell the truth. And I believe this is why a lot of people don't trust the police. Guess we don't have any more Frank Serpicos in this country.
13
Actually, I see many cops on here and the Sandra Bland comments that do exactly what you say they should.
Note that the second cop to arrive reports Tensing's false claim to have been dragged, and then "sees" evidence for it. And the third cop claims to have actually witnessed the dragging. The good ole thin blue lie.
16
They were there and you are watching the body camera angle. At least open your mind to the fact that there may be facts that the camera did not capture. This is why there will be a trial -- to establish fact.
First, this was not a "routine" traffic stop. That's a bit sensational. In a routine stop a driver produces a license, registration and insurance. He doesn't repeatedly dodge the officer's questions, and he doesn't produce an open container of alcohol. Routine stops end with a ticket, not the driver attempting to flee.
Separately, why is a school cop patrolling streets "blocks south of the University"? Why is a university cop pulling cars over for traffic violations?
Isn't his job to make sure students are safe?
It would have been nice to know WHY university police need to be armed. Is crime so bad on campus that they need to carry guns?
I'm sure parents will sleep better knowing cops who have been hired to make their kids safe on campus are patrolling streets looking for missing license plates.
Here are some questions for follow-up reporting. Is this happening elsewhere? Do other university police in other cities patrol city streets? How does one wind up on a university police force? Are they rejects from real departments? Do university forces have the same training programs as real PDs?
Hopefully in the coming months we will learn how many other college police departments are armed and patrolling city streets rather than campuses. We may find college kids are even less safe than we already thought.
Separately, why is a school cop patrolling streets "blocks south of the University"? Why is a university cop pulling cars over for traffic violations?
Isn't his job to make sure students are safe?
It would have been nice to know WHY university police need to be armed. Is crime so bad on campus that they need to carry guns?
I'm sure parents will sleep better knowing cops who have been hired to make their kids safe on campus are patrolling streets looking for missing license plates.
Here are some questions for follow-up reporting. Is this happening elsewhere? Do other university police in other cities patrol city streets? How does one wind up on a university police force? Are they rejects from real departments? Do university forces have the same training programs as real PDs?
Hopefully in the coming months we will learn how many other college police departments are armed and patrolling city streets rather than campuses. We may find college kids are even less safe than we already thought.
8
The container of alcohol was closed, full, and possibly sealed.
1
This article is unclear on it, but it's been reported elsewhere that it was an unopened bottle of alcohol - unopened and sealed.
There have been campus shootings. Bad ones. So yes these officers should be armed. Also, if the university is close to a high crime neighborhood college kids are easy pickings for criminals. If this cop was out of jurisdiction and made a bad judgement call then yes, he should be indicted. Generalizing that all campus cops are hacks is unfair. Not all colleges are located in Mayberry.
1
Anyone else shocked by the off-hand remark: "This office has investigated more than 100 officer-involved shootings and ..."
12
Hamilton County is an area with 2+mm people. Over the course of many years (think 20 or 30), no this is not a lot of shootings. It did not say shootings of unarmed people, it said shootings.....
At last, a prosecutor who is saying what needs to be said "a senseless, asinine shooting". Let's hope that Police all over start getting a more balanced approach to training that is sorely needed so that law and order is restored in this country.
We simply cannot sustain taxpayer efforts for law and order when the enforcers are themselves a significant problem. No one should be dead because they got pulled over for a traffic infraction; not in America! Let's stop supporting people who obviously don't belong in the policing business. Let's stop supporting the militarization of our Police forces.
We simply cannot sustain taxpayer efforts for law and order when the enforcers are themselves a significant problem. No one should be dead because they got pulled over for a traffic infraction; not in America! Let's stop supporting people who obviously don't belong in the policing business. Let's stop supporting the militarization of our Police forces.
3
The toxic rules for manhood, self and authority in America won't be deflated by training. Guns don't kill people, policemen and those with ready access in an immature world do so.
4
I find Mr. Deters comment that this does not happen in our country extremely ironic. It just happened in his jurisdiction 10 days ago and it is a threat that non-white Americans face each and every day of their lives.
I am white and I don't face this on a personal level but as someone who finds any type of racial bias disgusting I am beyond despair that my fellow citizens are being gunned down in our streets simply because of the color of their skin.
Prosecuting and convicting this officer is a good place to start but we need to find a way to teach our police that all people's lives matter, even if they look different in some way. It seems that a good place to start might be to raise the standards for who is hired to legally carry firearms in any position of authority. That is something that clearly is lacking in our country at this point in time.
I am white and I don't face this on a personal level but as someone who finds any type of racial bias disgusting I am beyond despair that my fellow citizens are being gunned down in our streets simply because of the color of their skin.
Prosecuting and convicting this officer is a good place to start but we need to find a way to teach our police that all people's lives matter, even if they look different in some way. It seems that a good place to start might be to raise the standards for who is hired to legally carry firearms in any position of authority. That is something that clearly is lacking in our country at this point in time.
9
Absolutely shoot anyone who is REALLY a life threat but NOT for a mere traffic stop when NO weapon or threat to the cop (s) is visible, that is murder under color of authority, plain and simple !
3
How many hundreds of incidents like this have gone quietly under the radar in past decades, with a murdered man officially vilified, murdering police promoted and praised, and protesting witnesses disparaged, silenced and called liars? Not to mention the thousands of trumped up charges that mark a youth as a criminal from puberty and all the rest of these loathsome injustices.
The police who lied for Tensing need to be prosecuted as vigorously as him, because there is and really always has been truly a conspiracy of prevarication, bullying of witnesses and manipulation of the courts (themselves in need of serious reform) by the police in this country.
The racism that engenders this sort of violence and corruption has no place in our society. It needs to be stopped at every level.
The police who lied for Tensing need to be prosecuted as vigorously as him, because there is and really always has been truly a conspiracy of prevarication, bullying of witnesses and manipulation of the courts (themselves in need of serious reform) by the police in this country.
The racism that engenders this sort of violence and corruption has no place in our society. It needs to be stopped at every level.
6
Howard Cosell was right when he used to say "let's go to the tape".
1
Traffic stops as tools of harassment and revenue generation for local governments have got to stop.
10
Black men and women are the canaries in the coal mine of abusive policing. If we continue to ignore these instances we won't need the hashtag Black Lives Matter we'll need #Bodybagsonesizefitsall
''Officer Tensing starts to open the driver’s door and tells Mr. Dubose to remove his seatbelt; Mr. Dubose pulls the door closed again and restarts his car''-It's clear,that Mr. Dubose was drunk and disobedient.I think he was shot accidentally.And what if he being drunk will kill somebody by his car? Officer Tensing is innocent in this police disobedient case
3
If you watch the video, you will see that the bottle of alcohol was full and appeared to be not yet opened. At no time was Mr. Dubose belligerent or aggressive. He remained soft-spoken at all times.
Even if he had been disrespectful, as you allege, I don't think being executed on the spot is the American thing to do - or is it, sadly, in your view?
Even if he had been disrespectful, as you allege, I don't think being executed on the spot is the American thing to do - or is it, sadly, in your view?
5
Have you watched the video? Mr. Dubose was as laid back as anyone could be. To me it clearly shows an officer getting mad about noncompliance. Neither that nor pulling away merits being shot and killed. There are so may other responses that Mr Tensing could have used but it wasn't imperative for him to stop Mr Dubose from pulling away.
Where are all the comments expressing sympathy for Samuel Dubose? Why is no one calling him "that poor man"? Why is no one saying they wish they could have known him while he was alive? Where are the comments sanctifying his personality, saying he is a lovely man, with his whole life ahead of him?
Why isn't this cop being called a bully? Why no armchair psychoanalysis of his issues with control and dominance?
Why isn't the New York Times publishing unfounded suspicions from local associates of the deceased? Where is the article holding up local municipal figureheads for ridicule and censure on the presumption that they are racist?
It's really amazing how much the coverage, and the reaction by the public, is altered by our underlying gender and regional biases.
Why isn't this cop being called a bully? Why no armchair psychoanalysis of his issues with control and dominance?
Why isn't the New York Times publishing unfounded suspicions from local associates of the deceased? Where is the article holding up local municipal figureheads for ridicule and censure on the presumption that they are racist?
It's really amazing how much the coverage, and the reaction by the public, is altered by our underlying gender and regional biases.
2
Why are we emphasizing in our headline that it was a white police officer who killed a black man? When Freddie Grey was killed in Baltimore and six cops were indicted it was not headlined that three of the six who killed that black man were black nor was it mentioned that Baltimore's police chief and mayor are black. Why irresponsibly inflame racial tension?
6
That is their M.O.
Please, let’s stop blaming the police officers for our faults because we might do it till the end of times.
We designated them to enforce the laws. We enacted those laws, not the police officers. We demand the police to enact and enforce the laws.
Nobody would be happier than the police officers to have a changed role.
Make them an advisory service.
The next time a bank wants to evict a family from a home, let’s send a police officer to advise a tenant that they should pay the mortgage. Afterwards it would be a job of bank manager to evict a family out of their house.
Or, if a robbery or thievery happens, don’t ask for the police to act. Bring onto the scene that city managers, the reverends, or the school teachers to investigate a crime and apprehend the criminals.
Or, if somebody is killed by a reckless driver or completely drunk individual, invite a driving instructor, his parents or a bartender who served the drunkard to solve out the problems.
I guarantee you that after those structural changes our police officers would be far more relaxed and less stressed and the unprovoked shootings would be dramatically slashed.
But, please, let’s stop blaming the police officers for our human faults…
They are not a problem, we are the problem.
Let’s blame the police only after we improve and eradicate the domestic violence, drug dealing and gang violence.
It’s not the police job to solve those problems. That’s our duty. Why haven’t we accomplished it yet?
We designated them to enforce the laws. We enacted those laws, not the police officers. We demand the police to enact and enforce the laws.
Nobody would be happier than the police officers to have a changed role.
Make them an advisory service.
The next time a bank wants to evict a family from a home, let’s send a police officer to advise a tenant that they should pay the mortgage. Afterwards it would be a job of bank manager to evict a family out of their house.
Or, if a robbery or thievery happens, don’t ask for the police to act. Bring onto the scene that city managers, the reverends, or the school teachers to investigate a crime and apprehend the criminals.
Or, if somebody is killed by a reckless driver or completely drunk individual, invite a driving instructor, his parents or a bartender who served the drunkard to solve out the problems.
I guarantee you that after those structural changes our police officers would be far more relaxed and less stressed and the unprovoked shootings would be dramatically slashed.
But, please, let’s stop blaming the police officers for our human faults…
They are not a problem, we are the problem.
Let’s blame the police only after we improve and eradicate the domestic violence, drug dealing and gang violence.
It’s not the police job to solve those problems. That’s our duty. Why haven’t we accomplished it yet?
4
You make some great points but you go too far. Just because I respect the job of a cop doesn't mean I give cops carte blanche to behave illegally or immorally.
I
I
The officer pulled the car over for a legitimate violation: no front license plate. This is a flag. This can be an indication of a stolen car from a sales lot onto which the thief quickly attaches a single plate, or a stolen car on which the thief switches plates to avoid detection.
The driver seemed very evasive of simple questions. He would not answer a simple question: "Do you have your license on you", asked several times clearly and without threat. The driver equivocated over and over again. This is a flag.
The driver had a bottle of liquor between his feet, and already appeared either drunk or stoned. This is a flag.
The driver did not remove his seat belt when told to, and reacted badly when asked the second time. The car did not fall into gear with a foot on the accelerator, the driver put the car in gear and pressed on the gas to make a run from the law before he was shot.
It may be true that the driver was not armed, but his actions from beginning to end were illegal and dishonest and gave no indication that he was just going about his business.
In a stop like this, the only way to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that the driver was armed was for the cop to actually get shot.
I legally carry a pistol out of view even in my car, within 8" of my hand. If I were a criminal, I could easily draw and shoot a cop in this situation in roughly two seconds.
If you were a cop, and I acted as this driver did…are you willing to wait those two seconds?
The driver seemed very evasive of simple questions. He would not answer a simple question: "Do you have your license on you", asked several times clearly and without threat. The driver equivocated over and over again. This is a flag.
The driver had a bottle of liquor between his feet, and already appeared either drunk or stoned. This is a flag.
The driver did not remove his seat belt when told to, and reacted badly when asked the second time. The car did not fall into gear with a foot on the accelerator, the driver put the car in gear and pressed on the gas to make a run from the law before he was shot.
It may be true that the driver was not armed, but his actions from beginning to end were illegal and dishonest and gave no indication that he was just going about his business.
In a stop like this, the only way to confirm beyond a shadow of a doubt that the driver was armed was for the cop to actually get shot.
I legally carry a pistol out of view even in my car, within 8" of my hand. If I were a criminal, I could easily draw and shoot a cop in this situation in roughly two seconds.
If you were a cop, and I acted as this driver did…are you willing to wait those two seconds?
5
This seems more like poor judgment and therefore manslaughter imo versus premeditated killing. People bash cops until they need them as in someone kicking in their front door. Police officers do their job and they certainly are not in it for the money or anything except to try to help others. Look what happens now in md...cops are told to be more hands off and let it slide. All of a sudden the criminal element figures out they can do whatever without fear of prosecution. Then all the whiners saying cops are racist and bad and killers finds out the cops are NOT the problem.
Be suspicious of Deters and what he says. He is either incapable of a disinterested analysis of the events or he wants to avoid one. I wonder what the presentation to the grand jury was like. For the past few weeks Cincinnati has been sponsoring some local events dealing with baseball which have been expected to bring a significant amount of business revenue to the city, and there has been great concern about the possibility of blacks again rioting. The current police chief, a black, has been threatened with dismissal because of tensions with the black community.
Now look (a "content analysis") at the various subjects he introduces into his remarks: he discredits the University campus police, saying in his TV presentation that they were not as good as city police. (Why do campuses want their own police? Because students in many cases, as with Cincinnati, live next to a ghetto, something they are not prepared for, and crimes they commit (smoking marijuana) are not likely to be overlooked by other police). But placing the blame on the University police, Deter's local police are told they are superior and not to worry about a cop being charged with murder. It's startling how many political fences Deter's deals with in his remarks. The Times might want to take a serious look at what has gone on. Could be we're seeing what black threats over police violence are producing results indeed.
Now look (a "content analysis") at the various subjects he introduces into his remarks: he discredits the University campus police, saying in his TV presentation that they were not as good as city police. (Why do campuses want their own police? Because students in many cases, as with Cincinnati, live next to a ghetto, something they are not prepared for, and crimes they commit (smoking marijuana) are not likely to be overlooked by other police). But placing the blame on the University police, Deter's local police are told they are superior and not to worry about a cop being charged with murder. It's startling how many political fences Deter's deals with in his remarks. The Times might want to take a serious look at what has gone on. Could be we're seeing what black threats over police violence are producing results indeed.
1
Separate and apart from the facts of the case, Deters clearly went out of his way to make statements that would calm tensions among the black populace. With recent violence in Ferguson and Baltimore, as well as 2000-era riot in Cinci, Deters made a calculated bet: (1) quickly indict officer and make broad and flamboyant statements to calm tensions or (2) don't indict immediately and risk a riot. Not even sure this went to a grand jury?
If he can't get conviction, he'll say "I tried" Remains to be seen whether his statements will be interpreted by judge as prejudicial.
If he can't get conviction, he'll say "I tried" Remains to be seen whether his statements will be interpreted by judge as prejudicial.
Look closely at the video.
Dubose had a bottle of booze in the car. Dubose said he had a drivers license but refused to produce it. Dubose refuses to step out of the car. Dubose attempted to drive off.
The police officer is acting very respectful toward Dibpse during the conversation. Dubose actions and conversation are at a minimum suspicious. (If he had a license, he simply could have produced it! When asked to, Dubose could have simply stepped out of the car. He doesn't. Clearly, something was wrong here and the officer knew it.)
You can't tell from this video if the officer was hanging onto the car as he said. Should the officer simply have let Dubose drive away? If Dubose was drunk and ran over someone, would the officer have been blamed for not doing his duty?
Unless this district attorney has something we have not seen, he is simply pandering to the black community of Cincinnati and officer will never be convicted.
U
Dubose had a bottle of booze in the car. Dubose said he had a drivers license but refused to produce it. Dubose refuses to step out of the car. Dubose attempted to drive off.
The police officer is acting very respectful toward Dibpse during the conversation. Dubose actions and conversation are at a minimum suspicious. (If he had a license, he simply could have produced it! When asked to, Dubose could have simply stepped out of the car. He doesn't. Clearly, something was wrong here and the officer knew it.)
You can't tell from this video if the officer was hanging onto the car as he said. Should the officer simply have let Dubose drive away? If Dubose was drunk and ran over someone, would the officer have been blamed for not doing his duty?
Unless this district attorney has something we have not seen, he is simply pandering to the black community of Cincinnati and officer will never be convicted.
U
5
I agree...this seems more like manslaughter in my opinion
Mr. Dubose was stopped for not having a front license plate. He showed the police the license plate. I live in a community where the police are are very arrogant. I would not get out of the car for a minor infraction if ordered to do so and I am white. Staying in your car should not be a death sentence.
The officer was properly charged. The officer will get a trial. Mr. Dubose, and other black citizens killed during a stop, did not. Black lives matter as much as mine.
The officer was properly charged. The officer will get a trial. Mr. Dubose, and other black citizens killed during a stop, did not. Black lives matter as much as mine.
2
The police officer has the authority to ask you to step from the vehicle. Get used to it.
Why are we here today reading this article in the newspaper?
Why are we to trust that our newspapers bring us the stories that are fit to be printed? That's what the New York Times claims it has always done: "All the news that's fit to print'.
Many are easily misled, is the sorry truth of the matter. That a newspaper would aim to deceive us? That would be beyond the pale!
Yet we know today even newspapers aren't that scrupulous. We know they need to make a profit. Somehow there could even be a political agenda. As politics goes, so goes the journalism, and vice versa of course. But newspapers should not be the organs, the mouthpieces, the handmaidens, of political machinations and agendas. This is a sorry symbiosis whn it doesn't help the country. And polls do show that Americans feel race relations have become worse in the last eight or so years. Newspapers have sadly played a part in this. Politicians and there agendas too.
This has just not only telling narratives that are absolutely false many times, in the guise of truth. This is ruining this country in so many ways it isn't funny.
Why are we to trust that our newspapers bring us the stories that are fit to be printed? That's what the New York Times claims it has always done: "All the news that's fit to print'.
Many are easily misled, is the sorry truth of the matter. That a newspaper would aim to deceive us? That would be beyond the pale!
Yet we know today even newspapers aren't that scrupulous. We know they need to make a profit. Somehow there could even be a political agenda. As politics goes, so goes the journalism, and vice versa of course. But newspapers should not be the organs, the mouthpieces, the handmaidens, of political machinations and agendas. This is a sorry symbiosis whn it doesn't help the country. And polls do show that Americans feel race relations have become worse in the last eight or so years. Newspapers have sadly played a part in this. Politicians and there agendas too.
This has just not only telling narratives that are absolutely false many times, in the guise of truth. This is ruining this country in so many ways it isn't funny.
1
I am a former police officer, and current criminal justice instructor. After watching this video I am sitting here stunned, but sadly not surprised by this. People skills, training, people skills, training. People skills and training!!!
20
Body cameras are a good idea. Wearing them should become federal law.
May Mr. DuBose's death not be in vain. Very tragic indeed!
May Mr. DuBose's death not be in vain. Very tragic indeed!
3
While the officer seems guilty of murder, and hopefully will be convicted, this situation also brings another troubling issue to light;..many African Americans believe it is acceptable to run, or to tell a police officer to get lost.
2
He should have shot the tires, not the person. Why on earth are cops trained to kill and not to stop.
2
Three observations:
Had Mr. Dubose done what he was asked by the policeman, which used to be what we're taught in a civil society, he would probably still be alive today.
Policing in this country is the realm of small-minded, frustrated sociopaths who take an "us versus them" attitude with the public. All of the public, not just black america. We need to change policing attitudes, including hiring, and the way minor infractions are handled.
The City of Cincinnati should not have to worry about violence on its streets in the aftermath, especially since an indictment has been handed down. When the black community acts out -- and it's the only community that does so violently -- it strengthens the argument by some that this community is violent and lawless and should be treated as such. Put on a more mature face if you want to be taken seriously.
Lots of work to be done on all sides. So let's quit playing the old games and get to work.
Had Mr. Dubose done what he was asked by the policeman, which used to be what we're taught in a civil society, he would probably still be alive today.
Policing in this country is the realm of small-minded, frustrated sociopaths who take an "us versus them" attitude with the public. All of the public, not just black america. We need to change policing attitudes, including hiring, and the way minor infractions are handled.
The City of Cincinnati should not have to worry about violence on its streets in the aftermath, especially since an indictment has been handed down. When the black community acts out -- and it's the only community that does so violently -- it strengthens the argument by some that this community is violent and lawless and should be treated as such. Put on a more mature face if you want to be taken seriously.
Lots of work to be done on all sides. So let's quit playing the old games and get to work.
4
it is the attitude of the white police officers towards black citizens which is causing most of the mistakes in policing. Being in the field and exposed to daily unruly behaviour by these citizens they are always at the breaking point psychologically and this is what is reflected in their actions when black citizens fail to obey a clear order from the officers entrusted with the job. The order may be unfair..illegal but at the time officers have the weapon and legal right to use and black citizen is mostly in lonely situation. Defiance and authority are at the issue here
1
Is failure to obey the commands of a police officer a crime so grave its punishment is instant death?
10
The problem with body cameras is that while they help prosecutors better understand the sequence of events, it doesn't prevent or stop police violence, nor does it prevent the public violence towards police. As many commenters have mentioned, we need police trained to defuse situations whenever possible.
1
This is a senseless shooting that should not have happened. The officer in qusetion lost his control. Why not hit the tire of the car if you need to stop someone?
On the other hand, when will people stop giving officers a hard time for doing their duty? When will people stop trying to flee the scene and avoid obvious guilt? What facts will we find out about this poor victim regarding his record?
Senseless, but once again here we go. Is this racially motivated? Who really knows?
On the other hand, when will people stop giving officers a hard time for doing their duty? When will people stop trying to flee the scene and avoid obvious guilt? What facts will we find out about this poor victim regarding his record?
Senseless, but once again here we go. Is this racially motivated? Who really knows?
1
The average American police officer has been indoctrinated into a culture where it's them against us and they have the power. At it's worst, it manifests in citizens being shot to death over nothing. At it's best, we are bullied by cops who believe they can strip us of our rights and boss us around with little provocation. And if we don't obey immediately the cops turn violent. If it's bad for white Americans it's many times worse for black Americans. This is not a situation of rooting our a few bad cops. It's systemic and highly pervasive. Cops in America are not trained sufficiently at defusing situations. Rather, they escalate situations, compounding the charges against citizens who don't understand why they're being attacked.
1
The prosecutor, Deters, gets it right when he says, "...even if the car starts to roll away, let it go..."
Police need to de--escalate themselves --they don't have to win every confrontation, no matter what the cost.
Police need to de--escalate themselves --they don't have to win every confrontation, no matter what the cost.
2
Here we go again. One man is dead because another had a gun and felt empowered by gun and uniform. A campus cop on the public highway! Imagine a distraught young woman looking to him for help after a campus assault! Shame on that so-called university for hiring such an excuse for law-man. I guess they needed to save money to pay their football staff!
And here we go again with the misinformation and with the white-cop support claque. THE DEAD MAN DID NOT DRIVE OFF. He was shot while the car was standing still. He slumped over the wheel and the car then moved off slowly. It’s no surprise that the cop said he’d been dragged, but it’s a lie. It’s no surprise, either, that the other cops on the scene should corroborate the story of the car-dragging, but what is behind that corroboration? Lies? Human inability to register reality in an emergency?
Today, we have projections for the growth of the world’s population. By 2050, India may overtake China. Nigeria may overtake the USA. If Americans can’t get beyond a world view that includes a giant wall at the border with Mexico, immediate war with Iran, and unquestioning support for killer cops, we’re doomed to gibbering irrelevance.
And here we go again with the misinformation and with the white-cop support claque. THE DEAD MAN DID NOT DRIVE OFF. He was shot while the car was standing still. He slumped over the wheel and the car then moved off slowly. It’s no surprise that the cop said he’d been dragged, but it’s a lie. It’s no surprise, either, that the other cops on the scene should corroborate the story of the car-dragging, but what is behind that corroboration? Lies? Human inability to register reality in an emergency?
Today, we have projections for the growth of the world’s population. By 2050, India may overtake China. Nigeria may overtake the USA. If Americans can’t get beyond a world view that includes a giant wall at the border with Mexico, immediate war with Iran, and unquestioning support for killer cops, we’re doomed to gibbering irrelevance.
2
People are always asking me why I don't want to live in the states anymore (haven't since 2005). I try to explain how my country has become a police state, but they don't really get it. This year there have been plenty of articles like this one to help them understand my self-exile.
4
If I was a cop in today's climate, I'd simply let every black person go. In fact, I woudn't bother to stop them in the first place. Why chance it?
5
Or you could just kill them. Chances are very, very good that you'd get away with it.
A University of Cincinnati police officer, Ray Tensing comes across as a typical American police officer in some of the American states - Trigger happy, and on an undocumented mission to eliminate the rest of those black men and women who are not yet behind bars. The saddest thing is that they go about this in a most brazen, though gruesome way. For a mere traffic offence, a life is taken away. The list of such senseless murder of defenseless and unarmed black men at the hands of white (KKK) police officers include similar cases in Staten Island; Cleveland; Baltimore; North Charleston, S.C.; and Ferguson, Mo., among others. Thank God for the introduction of body cameras. Like the one that was murdered while running away from the officer with both hands rose, this one would have also been swept under the carpet in the absence of compelling evidence. It is not actually a consolation to the family of Samuel Dubose that this murderer has been found guilty of the offence. Neither is to to the rest of us who have treated with gruesome and heart breaking video of yet another fatal shooting by the police. Let’s wait and see what happens next. He could still be discharged and acquitted of all charges. It is and will remain a stain on the conscience of men and women of decency.
2
How come ,in both Sandra Bland and this case, it begins with a simple request from the officer delivered in a polite way? Temper your response,and you might live. Most officers are not prepared for institutional racism against them...
4
"Temper your response,and you might live." (sic)
I'm really glad you aren't in charge of enforcing Fourth Amendment protections.
I'm really glad you aren't in charge of enforcing Fourth Amendment protections.
Well, here we have it again. Police with guns kill innocent people. Let's ban the police. Won't work? OK. Let's have background checks on police officers. Oh. We already have them? Darn. That doesn't work? Gee whiz. Well then let's have more severe background checks and ....
I am being facetious? Um. Yes. But what I saying goes directly to the root of the GUN CONTROL hysteria. It is not guns, but SICK PEOPLE who kill people. Background checks DO NOT WORK. How about a simple, medically- administered psych-evaluation before allowing purchase. More business for doctors and some actual chance of preventing potentially dangerous people from operating weapons.
I am being facetious? Um. Yes. But what I saying goes directly to the root of the GUN CONTROL hysteria. It is not guns, but SICK PEOPLE who kill people. Background checks DO NOT WORK. How about a simple, medically- administered psych-evaluation before allowing purchase. More business for doctors and some actual chance of preventing potentially dangerous people from operating weapons.
Having grown up around Cincinnati, which has had terrible problems with racism and an unbelievably corrupt judicial system, I was just waiting for something like this to happen there. Mr. Deters response gave me hope that perhaps something has changed there. Better late than never.
3
For those who say the officer should have let him go, think about this: Dubose seemed drunk. Let's just say the officer let him go and 10 minutes later Dubose ran a red light and hit somebody. Then the officer would have been in trouble (not as much trouble as now) for letting a drunk driver drive off. No win situation.
Frankly, this whole situation just shows how all parties involved were feckless. If you're pulled over, don't play games with officers. Comply. And don't drive drunk.
And police officers--just stick to the facts and don't try to cover up or tell lies when things go wrong. Especially now that you have body cams that can easily expose you as a liar.
Frankly, this whole situation just shows how all parties involved were feckless. If you're pulled over, don't play games with officers. Comply. And don't drive drunk.
And police officers--just stick to the facts and don't try to cover up or tell lies when things go wrong. Especially now that you have body cams that can easily expose you as a liar.
12
You say ..."Mr. Dubose seemed drunk". I am sure that if he ws, the coroner will indicate this. Until then, don't speculate.
You sound so rational, and yet...the man was executed for nothing and there is no way you can get around that by pretending there is any equity of responsibility.
Everything you say can be true..it still does not warrant an execution.
I can't tell from the video just what happened when the body cam was moving around. But, no matter what a cop stops you for, you cannot drive away. No the cop should not have shot the guy in the head. He could have gotten the back license plate and also chased him down in his squad car. The guy was drinking gin, and drunk drivers kill innocent people. So the driver should have been taken out for tests to see if he was drunk and unsteady on his feet.
The prosecutor was out of control to. What prosecutor stands up and says what he did? None that I know. I presume the DA was trying to keep people from rioting, but his comments were not what a prosecutor can legally say. He should be recused from the case.
Let's see if the driver was DWI when the forensics come back. And what his prior record was. Driving off like that is very disturbing. People, black white hispanic, don't just drive away from armed cops for no reason.
The prosecutor was out of control to. What prosecutor stands up and says what he did? None that I know. I presume the DA was trying to keep people from rioting, but his comments were not what a prosecutor can legally say. He should be recused from the case.
Let's see if the driver was DWI when the forensics come back. And what his prior record was. Driving off like that is very disturbing. People, black white hispanic, don't just drive away from armed cops for no reason.
3
Again - if a cop tells you to do something you do it. A car is a deadly weapon and the officer felt there was trouble. Mr DuBose should have cooperated. Had he done so he would still be alive.
It's funny that all these BlackLives matter folks are ignoring the simple fact that had all the people involved in these incidents been cooperative with the police they would still be alive.
It's funny that all these BlackLives matter folks are ignoring the simple fact that had all the people involved in these incidents been cooperative with the police they would still be alive.
4
I'm really glad you are not in charge of interpreting our Fourth Amendment protections. It's amazing that you people are all willing to live in a society where the punishment for not immediately obeying a police officer to his satisfaction is summary extrajudicial execution. Seriously. That is a society you are willing to live in, because you think it will never happen to you or someone you love. Just those "disobedient" blacks.
1
So now we have college cops running around with guns and full arrest powers, gunning down unarmed African-Americans during routine traffic stops. I have difficulty expressing my outrage and dismay. This is madness.
3
Where are the charges for the fellow officers who LIED about what happened?? One officer lies and the others swear to it? You or I would be in jail.
2
Many years ago, a man came to my door to inquire about a neighbor who had applied to be in the NYPD. I had a neighborly relationship with him, we would chit chat at the mailbox as he picked up his I love guns magazines. I was very young and politely told the police I had no reason to think he wouldn't make a good officer, even though I knew from conversations with him, that he was really probably a thug. Every time I see a story like this I wonder about that guy, wonder if he became a cop and wonder if I am an accomplice because I was embarrassed to bad mouth a guy I was essentially afraid of. It's sad that I have to think of my failure almost every day, because almost every day another guy is shooting someone for nothing.
5
Police are not above the law, they are there to enforce it within guidelines while protecting and serving the public. The other officers who lied in their testimony of how events transpired should be charged with obstruction of justice, and/or accessories to murder.
1
Many white police officers don't know how to react to people whose faces are a different color than theirs. I believe that the disappearance of police walking on the streets in most parts of big cities keeps them at a distance from ordinary citizens and exacerbates their inability to understand that most people who look different than they do actually are good, law-abiding citizens. Every officer, at all levels, should be required - at least a few times a day - to park the car and walk around to see what see and maybe, just maybe, say hello to a few of us.
I'm a white man, in my seventies, never arrested, and have been a teacher for almost 50 years, but I'm afraid of cops in cities. Too many citizens of all colors have been alienated by the overt arrogance many officers exhibit towards people who are not wearing police uniforms.
I'm a white man, in my seventies, never arrested, and have been a teacher for almost 50 years, but I'm afraid of cops in cities. Too many citizens of all colors have been alienated by the overt arrogance many officers exhibit towards people who are not wearing police uniforms.
1
I don’t think that my fellow citizens correctly understand who is inflicting the harm on America.
If we asked our police officers who serve the public to have the body cameras all the time, we should demand the same from our elected officials in the White House, the Congress and the state governments.
About $20 trillion in financial damages, more than six thousands lost lives, dozens thousands wounded and hundreds thousands of psychological disorders weren’t inflicted upon us by our police officers but by our politicians.
Demand the politicians to carry the body cameras all the time to know exactly what they are doing…
We as the nation should trust our officers more than our politicians…
The former risk their lives every single day to protect us. The latter are gambling with our lives all the time…
If we asked our police officers who serve the public to have the body cameras all the time, we should demand the same from our elected officials in the White House, the Congress and the state governments.
About $20 trillion in financial damages, more than six thousands lost lives, dozens thousands wounded and hundreds thousands of psychological disorders weren’t inflicted upon us by our police officers but by our politicians.
Demand the politicians to carry the body cameras all the time to know exactly what they are doing…
We as the nation should trust our officers more than our politicians…
The former risk their lives every single day to protect us. The latter are gambling with our lives all the time…
For each stop by the police that needlessly results in death, how many do not result in death but are still wrong? Thousands?
It could be due to a combination of bigotry, ignorance, incompetence, and lack of supervision. There should be body cameras worn by every police officer. Any person who feels that he/she were mistreated should be able obtain the video and demand an immediate review.
It wouldn't hurt for all cars to have video cameras installed at the factory that could continuously record inside and outside of the car.
Video also vindicates police from false accusations and frivolous lawsuits that are paid out by taxpayers.
It could be due to a combination of bigotry, ignorance, incompetence, and lack of supervision. There should be body cameras worn by every police officer. Any person who feels that he/she were mistreated should be able obtain the video and demand an immediate review.
It wouldn't hurt for all cars to have video cameras installed at the factory that could continuously record inside and outside of the car.
Video also vindicates police from false accusations and frivolous lawsuits that are paid out by taxpayers.
2
Why were the murderous Jesse James, Billy the Kid and other outlaws turned into heroes in popular American folklore? Why the same for the ruthless Ned Kelly and his gang here in Oz? Because, contrary to the propaganda, myths and legends put out there by Hollywood and the police unions, many LEOs have themselves always been ruthless, murdering thugs in uniforms. The police are simply the most powerful of all the organised criminal gangs. There are no good cops.
For many decades, I used to support the police 100% of the time. I have helped the police, and individual officers in difficulties, on far more occasions than they have ever helped me or my family. But when I tried patiently over several years to help a family friend, his wife and his daughters (all who had escaped the clutches of Khomeini and his goons, spent years in a refugee camp on the Ganges and then come to Oz) to get justice from the Queensland Police Service against the family's racist, abusive, threatening next door neighbours, I discovered first-hand just how dishonest, racist, blinkered and incompetent these men and women in uniform themselves are - right from the bottom to the top.
I no longer rely upon the police anywhere. Today, if my family or I were in peril, I would not go to the police. I would sort things out myself even if it meant that I spent the rest of my life in prison. We cannot trust the police anywhere - not in the USA, not in the UK, not here in Australia. They are part of the enemy.
For many decades, I used to support the police 100% of the time. I have helped the police, and individual officers in difficulties, on far more occasions than they have ever helped me or my family. But when I tried patiently over several years to help a family friend, his wife and his daughters (all who had escaped the clutches of Khomeini and his goons, spent years in a refugee camp on the Ganges and then come to Oz) to get justice from the Queensland Police Service against the family's racist, abusive, threatening next door neighbours, I discovered first-hand just how dishonest, racist, blinkered and incompetent these men and women in uniform themselves are - right from the bottom to the top.
I no longer rely upon the police anywhere. Today, if my family or I were in peril, I would not go to the police. I would sort things out myself even if it meant that I spent the rest of my life in prison. We cannot trust the police anywhere - not in the USA, not in the UK, not here in Australia. They are part of the enemy.
3
One can only speculate that the outcome would have been different if the officer had not been carrying a weapon, but instead had to rely on interpersonal skills. Perhaps the privilege to carry a weapon should be only extended to officers who, over the course of many years, have demonstrated the ability to de-escalate situations without a weapon as their source of authority?
37
Few weeks ago, I saw a white police officer on the I-45 in Houston assisting a black teen who looked sick, to change a flat tire. I drove by but then went back to take a picture as It looked strange. This shows that we still have few real police officers in the US. I also saw recently a picture of an officer who bought a meal for a homeless person and both sat on the sidewalk having their meal. This is America.
Policing is not war and should not focus on killing but correcting people where they do wrong to maintain peace and order in the society.
There needs to be a deliberate effort to check the officers for mental health. Human life is irreplaceable and you can just kill for broken tail lights or for driving without license or even being drunk. This should not be happening in America.
Policing is not war and should not focus on killing but correcting people where they do wrong to maintain peace and order in the society.
There needs to be a deliberate effort to check the officers for mental health. Human life is irreplaceable and you can just kill for broken tail lights or for driving without license or even being drunk. This should not be happening in America.
1
Excellent post.
Apart from the race issue in the anecdote is the issue of time. This cop took the time to help someone who needed help. He could just as easily have ignored the guy, or called AAA for him, or whatever, but he took the time. That seems to be what's missing from many of these police shootings. They don't take the time to do things right. What's the hurry? So the driver is intoxicated and maybe uncooperative. Deal with it. Talk to the guy. Cajole. Treat him/her like a human being. What else do you have to do? Take a deep breath. Do your job. Why is it that police departments can find people who do in fact take the time to help someone change a tire? Or make it a point to buy lemonade from a kid's lemonade stand? And yet there are police departments who hire people like Tensing, or Encinia, or the men who killed Freddie Grey or Walter Scott?
Apart from the race issue in the anecdote is the issue of time. This cop took the time to help someone who needed help. He could just as easily have ignored the guy, or called AAA for him, or whatever, but he took the time. That seems to be what's missing from many of these police shootings. They don't take the time to do things right. What's the hurry? So the driver is intoxicated and maybe uncooperative. Deal with it. Talk to the guy. Cajole. Treat him/her like a human being. What else do you have to do? Take a deep breath. Do your job. Why is it that police departments can find people who do in fact take the time to help someone change a tire? Or make it a point to buy lemonade from a kid's lemonade stand? And yet there are police departments who hire people like Tensing, or Encinia, or the men who killed Freddie Grey or Walter Scott?
I'm a college student at an 'elite' university = I spend a lot of time living inside a bubble of privilege. Knowing you will probably pull the usual college shenanigans, the university warns you about the difference between campus and city police. The university police are trained to respond to these situations and more concerned for your safety than arresting/indicting you. This matters, i.e. if a student makes a questionable choice that endangers his/her health, their friend won't be afraid to call for help. If you're a black student and dealing with the city police, on the other hand, you, to use a euphemism, might not be so lucky.
Our institution has privilege and funding to train its police to best respond to the specific needs of the community. For this reason we are a bit ridiculously exempt for systems of oppression and policing just a fence away.
Like all analogies this one is imperfect, but it highlights what a body camera can't show: the blend of cultural relations, institutions such as schools/incarceration/urban housing structures, and racial/economic inequality that gives power to those who have historically wielded it, without the skills to do so judiciously. We can't quickly dismantle these structures, but we perhaps can train police to better understand, represent, and build relationships with the +specific+ communities they serve.
Our institution has privilege and funding to train its police to best respond to the specific needs of the community. For this reason we are a bit ridiculously exempt for systems of oppression and policing just a fence away.
Like all analogies this one is imperfect, but it highlights what a body camera can't show: the blend of cultural relations, institutions such as schools/incarceration/urban housing structures, and racial/economic inequality that gives power to those who have historically wielded it, without the skills to do so judiciously. We can't quickly dismantle these structures, but we perhaps can train police to better understand, represent, and build relationships with the +specific+ communities they serve.
17
Dismantle?...and what would you replace them with? Liberals have changed schools and housing and you still can't get these things to work properly. Why not? Because your do-gooder schemes defy human nature and when there is failure you blame the schools and the housing instead of putting the onus on the people you are forcing your help on. They are not on the same page as you!
Yeah...we could hold a symposium and discuss the injustice in one of your classes....or...hows this for starters.....white cops ......could just stop shooting unarmed black people.
It is about time the corrupt goings on at the University of Cincinnati, the city of Cincinnati , Hamilton County and the State of Ohio are made public, and that there is retribution for the decades of civll rights abuses that have happened on campus and elsewhere. This is a great moment for "doing the right thing!"
1
Okay, now that the NYTimes has milked the five or six unjustifiable police shootings;..let's have a month or two of sensational coverage on the tens of thousands of shootings that are perfectly understandable and justified.
2
It sure seems like a clearcut murder case to me. Will he be let off on a technicality because he wasn't Mirandized prior to being told to wear his body camera? I've long been a believer in officers being required to wear body cameras, having seen too many instances of officers' outright lies being accepted due to their status as protected officials. It has long been assumed, incorrectly, by the general public that officers were or are beyond reproach and wouldn't lie to us, an assumption that has resulted in their belief they can best succeed by learning how to use words to paint a citizen in the worst possible light in their reports. Body cams are a witness to the veracity of these reports of their encounters with the citizenry, or lack thereof.
One mo' time!
What's left to be said?
What's left to be said?
AN armed rent a cop at a University, immediately disband this force. Obviously this man was disturbed and shot his victim during a vehicle infraction just outside the University, Why is it too often in these type situations that the victims are just shy of the law? In this instance the victim couldn't produce his drivers license, the vehicle's front plates were missing (in glove compartment) and had a partially drunk bottle of liqueur in the car? There is a pattern of this type victim, regardless that they are completely innocent. Why are black people in these situations always to be less than model citizens? And why are all the whites in this situation much less than dense as law Enforcement professionals? Tg should be continuous.
Three policemen lied after killing an innocent man. One I know why because he want to get away with murder, but I just cannot understand tow other officers who lied and bear false witness. Instead of protecting citizens, the police acted as a gang or cartel who stick together to harm citizens. This is such a sad day in America. Black lives matter (emphatically).
Mr. Deters statement requires a small correction. Instead of
"People don't get shot for a traffic stop"
the precise words are
"White people don't get shot for a traffic stop"
"People don't get shot for a traffic stop"
the precise words are
"White people don't get shot for a traffic stop"
2
Officer Tensing murdered Samuel DuBose because DuBose was black. Period. DuBose did not have a squeaky clean record, and the same can be said for many victims of police violence. But a bullet in the brain is not the answer or the fitting punishment for them. I am sad to say I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel in this national crisis. Victims of police violence who have criminal histories have them because of social, racial, and economic inequality. That inequality is going to have to be fought hard over the next several generations. Only then will we see an end to tragedies like that of Samuel DuBose.
24
if your premise is correct, then surely the DA will charge the officer with a hate crime. Period.
Where is one bit of evidence that he shot DuBose just because he was black?
Do you feel the same about blacks shooting blacks?
Take a look at the news from Baltimore about the five deaths in the last three days. One of the was a three year old little girl.
Do you feel the same about blacks shooting blacks?
Take a look at the news from Baltimore about the five deaths in the last three days. One of the was a three year old little girl.
The part of this story that shocked me most was that the Hamilton County prosecuting attorney's office has "probably reviewed 100 police shootings."
Not three or ten, but a hundred police shootings.
In one county!
It is about time that we are coming to realize the enormous scale of this problem.
Not three or ten, but a hundred police shootings.
In one county!
It is about time that we are coming to realize the enormous scale of this problem.
5
The truly sad fact is you are far more likely to be killed by a cop in America than a member of ISIS or any other terrorist.
5
Meanwhile, police work is not even in the top ten most dangerous professions. Trucking, farming, and construction work are all more dangerous. Perhaps it is time to stop giving to the police funds and help the wonderful people who pick our fruit and bring it to market. Now they are brave!
The United States needs to disarm. The majority of officers here in our suburb of Brussels are unarmed, for example. The idea of a UNIVERSITY cop having a deadly weapon has my colleagues here shaken their heads in disbelief.
2
It's time to raise the standards for police officers. Yes, it will cost us a bit more in taxes to hire better officers, but at least we will worry less about being gunned down if we have a tail light out.
2
I wonder how more lives would have been lost had there been bystanders? Poor decision making by Officer Ray Tensing. My sincere condolence goes to Mr Debose family.
At my university there's a warning. Don't get caught doing stupid college shenanigans off-campus. On-campus the university police is trained to deal with college students and more concerned with our safety than arresting or indicting us with charges. So if someone has made a questionable choice and endangered their safety, friends won't be afraid to ask for help. Off-campus we will be under the jurisdiction of the city police, and after Ferguson/Baltimore/Garner/Samuel Dubose you can easily imagine a worst-case (but not unusual) scenario for a student of color.
Because we go to an elite university we have incredible privileges and are exempt from systems literally just a fence away. Funding and support trains forces to understand and forge better relationships with their specific communities.
There may be 'bad seeds,' but seeds, good or bad, are nurtured by their environment. Institutions from schools to prisons to urban housing structures to the media to police force funding have fostered poor cultural relations and uneven power dynamics. A white cop given the title of 'legitimacy' is cultured to see a black person as a bit different, a little less legitimate. He's given power but not the training to understand and protect the specific community he serves (i.e. Ferguson.) He's given power but not the skills to wield it.
Because we go to an elite university we have incredible privileges and are exempt from systems literally just a fence away. Funding and support trains forces to understand and forge better relationships with their specific communities.
There may be 'bad seeds,' but seeds, good or bad, are nurtured by their environment. Institutions from schools to prisons to urban housing structures to the media to police force funding have fostered poor cultural relations and uneven power dynamics. A white cop given the title of 'legitimacy' is cultured to see a black person as a bit different, a little less legitimate. He's given power but not the training to understand and protect the specific community he serves (i.e. Ferguson.) He's given power but not the skills to wield it.
1
This has got to stop!! This is happening more and more often shooting of unarm men and women during traffic stops. Lock up cops guns during a traffic stops with use of tazers only!! Make an example out of him give him life for murder!! Once other cops see that Grand Juries and Prosecutors are not messing around they will be more careful how they do traffic stops
Wondering what will happen if Police officers in USA have flowers instead guns?And what will happen if Mr Putin bring flowers instead Tenks in Ukraine
Political pressure or local civil pressure, I'm not surprised by a few more indictments of white cops. (Long past time that they be held accountable for ALL actions and to have some put under a microscope!) These indictments are NOT convictions and they mean only that a select body believes that the charges warrant a much closer examination by a trial jury. The trial juries verdict will prevail.
If I may, we are some years late in holding some of these folks accountable for their actions; some certainly justified, but too many remain questioned. The Standards of Proof will remain high but if there is genuine guilt, some action is necessary, including judicial punishment - if/when convicted. All accused seem to be white and we'll see what the jury pools look like. Are there any folks of color still on the voting rolls, from where juries are usually drawn? Moving some cases to federal court, under a federal judge that knows how to count black and white noses may be a very smart move. Do local prosecutors care about racial balance? Perhaps in the North and the West, but in the states where these cases began, no. The do not core - or worse, intend to keep ot mostly White. Few of them have the balls to be objective. Darn few.
If I may, we are some years late in holding some of these folks accountable for their actions; some certainly justified, but too many remain questioned. The Standards of Proof will remain high but if there is genuine guilt, some action is necessary, including judicial punishment - if/when convicted. All accused seem to be white and we'll see what the jury pools look like. Are there any folks of color still on the voting rolls, from where juries are usually drawn? Moving some cases to federal court, under a federal judge that knows how to count black and white noses may be a very smart move. Do local prosecutors care about racial balance? Perhaps in the North and the West, but in the states where these cases began, no. The do not core - or worse, intend to keep ot mostly White. Few of them have the balls to be objective. Darn few.
Enough is enough already. I believe in 'rules of engagement' as we had in combat. In other words, do not fire unless fired upon or threatened with a dangerous weapon. Being a policeman can be a dangerous job but it also requires judgment and discipline where weapons are only used when absolutely necessary in life threatening situations.
1
Most readers can't seem to understand the judgement Officer Tensing made to shoot the passenger for traffic violation. If you isolate the incident, yes, it's hard to comprehend the mental state of the officer. But I'm not.
If you look at this incident in the context of the police culture, one starts to understand and see how Tensing was able to pull his gun out in a matter of second and shoot him in the head without any hesitation. It's the culture of the police force that made this kind of behavior tolerant and, to most, just another day.
The second police officer who showed up at the scene, though he didnt' witness the actual drag as reported by Tensing himself, wrote in his report that he saw the officer being dragged. It's the police culture that allowed this to happen without second guessing, and it's the police culture that make the officers blind to their ill actions. Unfortunately for Tensing, he pulled the trigger to his demise, while the rest of the police force merrily go about minding their own business.
Any police officer who did exactly the same thing years ago would, in the absence of the camera, have walked away free, perhaps even touted by other fellow officers for being quick and swift. And in time they would have dug up dirt on that black man to justify his killing.
Ultimately it's the police officers and the community they serve that fall victim to this.
If you look at this incident in the context of the police culture, one starts to understand and see how Tensing was able to pull his gun out in a matter of second and shoot him in the head without any hesitation. It's the culture of the police force that made this kind of behavior tolerant and, to most, just another day.
The second police officer who showed up at the scene, though he didnt' witness the actual drag as reported by Tensing himself, wrote in his report that he saw the officer being dragged. It's the police culture that allowed this to happen without second guessing, and it's the police culture that make the officers blind to their ill actions. Unfortunately for Tensing, he pulled the trigger to his demise, while the rest of the police force merrily go about minding their own business.
Any police officer who did exactly the same thing years ago would, in the absence of the camera, have walked away free, perhaps even touted by other fellow officers for being quick and swift. And in time they would have dug up dirt on that black man to justify his killing.
Ultimately it's the police officers and the community they serve that fall victim to this.
64
Wrong... its not "police culture"
If it was "police culture" white people would be getting the same treatment.
What it is is white men killing black men with no reason.
If it was "police culture" white people would be getting the same treatment.
What it is is white men killing black men with no reason.
"I can't breathe" uttered multiple times by Eric Garner and captured on video resulted in all charges against the officer cleared.
A Department of Justice investigation into Ferguson policing practices reveals a predominantly white police force and leadership systemically using excessive force against African Americans. Not simply a matter of weeding out good cops/bad cops. A matter of entrenched institutions and practices.
A body camera did not deliver justice alone. The insight of people in charge ( in the police department, in the court) revealed a breach of justice. Others will watch the video and interpret that Samuel Dubose should have acted differently. Forgive me for the untimely pun, but no matter how black and white it appears on camera, systems of oppression still come up gray. I'm glad a body camera aided in the delivery of justice, how can I not be? But shouldn't we also aim for a higher standard: not wasting a life in the first place?
Sight can help, but should not replace, insight.
A Department of Justice investigation into Ferguson policing practices reveals a predominantly white police force and leadership systemically using excessive force against African Americans. Not simply a matter of weeding out good cops/bad cops. A matter of entrenched institutions and practices.
A body camera did not deliver justice alone. The insight of people in charge ( in the police department, in the court) revealed a breach of justice. Others will watch the video and interpret that Samuel Dubose should have acted differently. Forgive me for the untimely pun, but no matter how black and white it appears on camera, systems of oppression still come up gray. I'm glad a body camera aided in the delivery of justice, how can I not be? But shouldn't we also aim for a higher standard: not wasting a life in the first place?
Sight can help, but should not replace, insight.
2
One thing I really love about Australia. The cops here do not create a confrontation with the public. There are so many speed and red light cameras that you do not see a cop pulling over anyone for speeding or other such nonsensical stuff. For persons without licence plates, they will eventually be caught out in some peaceful manner, given a ticket and they will be on their way.
Radar detectors are illegal to use in this country! Cops here have Radar detector detectors!!! So, when I got busted with a radar detector, the cops stopped me on a freeway...came up the car and said, Sir, we believe you are using a speed evasion device...we both look at each other and I said, yes I do have a detector but how do you know? So, he showed me his RDD and we both smiled, I got a ticket, my device got confiscated and no issues, and we parted as if nothing had happened.
Getting shot in the head for not having a licence plate... it is definitely murder in the first.
Radar detectors are illegal to use in this country! Cops here have Radar detector detectors!!! So, when I got busted with a radar detector, the cops stopped me on a freeway...came up the car and said, Sir, we believe you are using a speed evasion device...we both look at each other and I said, yes I do have a detector but how do you know? So, he showed me his RDD and we both smiled, I got a ticket, my device got confiscated and no issues, and we parted as if nothing had happened.
Getting shot in the head for not having a licence plate... it is definitely murder in the first.
4
What's important to realize is that incidents like this aren't new, what's new is that they're being caught on camera. Body cameras need to be mandatory for any LEO; there really is no evidence to the contrary.
1
Here is some tips for having a safe interaction with a Cop at a traffic stop.
Be polite and co-operate. Save any complaints for court, or the police investigations dept.
Do nothing to escalate the incident (running your mouth etc.)
Do not try to take flight from the policeman.
You will be safe and the Cop will be safe.
Be polite and co-operate. Save any complaints for court, or the police investigations dept.
Do nothing to escalate the incident (running your mouth etc.)
Do not try to take flight from the policeman.
You will be safe and the Cop will be safe.
3
...and any deviation from the foregoing instructions is punishable by instant death. Got it, kids?
1
I have watched this video several times now. Some commenters have suggested that the shot may have been fired after the officer had been dragged some distance by the car. That just doesn't show up on this video. Mr. Debose pulled the door of his vehicle closed, while inserting his key into the ignition , at which point the officer pulled his weapon and fired directly at the victim's head. If the officer had somehow been dragged behind or along the victim's car as it moved away, how could he possibly have fired his weapon with his two hands extended in front of him?
Whether Mr. Debose made a wise choice in starting his car is debatable, but besides the point. The punishment for such behavior is not a summary death sentence. The officer should, first, never have drawn his weapon . It seems to me that that is pretty much the end of the matter. It's debatable whether this was a murder , on the one hand, or manslaughter, on the other hand. That it was a homicide by an officer in no danger and with Mr. Debose , assuming he was still in control of his vehicle, driving away does not seem open to question. That seems pretty clear whether you watch the shorter version of the video or the longer version of the video. The moment in question is the same in either case.
Whether Mr. Debose made a wise choice in starting his car is debatable, but besides the point. The punishment for such behavior is not a summary death sentence. The officer should, first, never have drawn his weapon . It seems to me that that is pretty much the end of the matter. It's debatable whether this was a murder , on the one hand, or manslaughter, on the other hand. That it was a homicide by an officer in no danger and with Mr. Debose , assuming he was still in control of his vehicle, driving away does not seem open to question. That seems pretty clear whether you watch the shorter version of the video or the longer version of the video. The moment in question is the same in either case.
45
Why is it "debatable" whether it was wise for him to start his car and get ready to flee the scene? Can't you at least agree that it was a bad thing to do??
Perhaps your insightful analysis will be called upon at the trial, when the jury will weigh all of the evidence and make a determination. Until then, this video is just one snippet (itself subject to multiple interpretations) of the overall picture.
To those who think the gunshot happened before the car started moving, I have a question. How does a dead man locate and push the accelerator?
Though the sequence of events happens very fast, and is difficult to discern on the video footage, Occam's razor suggests that the accelerator was located and pushed before the gunshot, for the simple reason that it's quite impossible to do by someone with a bullet in their brain.
Though the sequence of events happens very fast, and is difficult to discern on the video footage, Occam's razor suggests that the accelerator was located and pushed before the gunshot, for the simple reason that it's quite impossible to do by someone with a bullet in their brain.
1
It's possible the officer was convinced he was dealing with an extremely intoxicated driver, and that letting him leave would pose clear and present danger to others in the immediate vicinity. I do wonder what police policy and state law is with regards to a driver under the influence that refuses to comply and tries to drive off.
Let me pose a hypothetical to everyone. Assume a driver is stopped and during the stop, it is concluded by the stopping officer(s) that the driver is under the influence, perhaps to the point where you might wonder if he can even drive straight. Suddenly during the stop, the suspect starts to drive off. The officer makes a non-violent attempt to stop the driver (voice command, reaching for keys, etc.) but is unable to prevent the driver from leaving. At this point, the car and suspect are out of reach of all but gunshot, and probably only lethal force can stop the vehicle. Not wanting to use force, lethal or otherwise, to prevent the suspect from fleeing, the officer let's him go. Ten minutes later this same extremely intoxicated driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. Will people think the officer made the right call?
Sincerely,
The Devils Advocate
Let me pose a hypothetical to everyone. Assume a driver is stopped and during the stop, it is concluded by the stopping officer(s) that the driver is under the influence, perhaps to the point where you might wonder if he can even drive straight. Suddenly during the stop, the suspect starts to drive off. The officer makes a non-violent attempt to stop the driver (voice command, reaching for keys, etc.) but is unable to prevent the driver from leaving. At this point, the car and suspect are out of reach of all but gunshot, and probably only lethal force can stop the vehicle. Not wanting to use force, lethal or otherwise, to prevent the suspect from fleeing, the officer let's him go. Ten minutes later this same extremely intoxicated driver strikes and kills a pedestrian. Will people think the officer made the right call?
Sincerely,
The Devils Advocate
2
Deven Guilford who was unarmed, and had no record, was killed a short while back by a cop during a traffic stop. Why is his death ignored? He was White, so I guess that is the reason. They keep mentioning that Black people are killed by cops, but ignore his and other deaths is the person is White.
5
The tragic killing of Samuel DuBose is another sad reminder of the divide between law enforcement and African-American communities. Our nation is in a quandary in that police is a reflection of greater society. The problem with fixing race issues of police is that while doing so, race issues embedded in our culture are simultaneously being evaded.
A primary obstacle to progress in race relations is the phrase “race card,” which is a guileful tactic to stymie meaningful discussions about race. It is acceptable to converse about gender equality, gay issues, and even religious beliefs, but when people raise race concerns, they are accused of using the race card. The phrase is being employed as a psychological barrier that discourages dialogue about race.
In order to fix race issues within law enforcement, first race issues within our society have to be addressed. And in order to accomplish this, the term race card must be eradicated as its use reduces race struggles to trivial discourse.
A primary obstacle to progress in race relations is the phrase “race card,” which is a guileful tactic to stymie meaningful discussions about race. It is acceptable to converse about gender equality, gay issues, and even religious beliefs, but when people raise race concerns, they are accused of using the race card. The phrase is being employed as a psychological barrier that discourages dialogue about race.
In order to fix race issues within law enforcement, first race issues within our society have to be addressed. And in order to accomplish this, the term race card must be eradicated as its use reduces race struggles to trivial discourse.
What is clear in all of these recent incidents is that police officers are inadequately trained and far too many of them are too quick to use deadly force. We have another case of one man's life being taken and another man's life being potentially ruined.
There is noting in this clip that leads me to believe the officer entered into this situation with the intent of killing the driver, therefore I view this as another case of an ill-trained and probably ill-suited person being given the authority to use deadly force. Given that the office clearly lied to justify his use of deadly force (as did his fellow officers) my empathy towards him is extremely limited. This is a tragedy for both men's families.
Numerous studies have shows that most people (black and white) are more fearful of black people than they are of white people. When people are given the power to take another human being's life, in an instant, the training they require far exceeds what they seem to be receiving.
Police officers need to make split second decisions but he should have asked himself if the driver deserved to dive because of a missing license plate.
There is noting in this clip that leads me to believe the officer entered into this situation with the intent of killing the driver, therefore I view this as another case of an ill-trained and probably ill-suited person being given the authority to use deadly force. Given that the office clearly lied to justify his use of deadly force (as did his fellow officers) my empathy towards him is extremely limited. This is a tragedy for both men's families.
Numerous studies have shows that most people (black and white) are more fearful of black people than they are of white people. When people are given the power to take another human being's life, in an instant, the training they require far exceeds what they seem to be receiving.
Police officers need to make split second decisions but he should have asked himself if the driver deserved to dive because of a missing license plate.
No front plate.
No drivers license.
Bottle of alcohol in the passenger compartment.
When asked to exit the vehicle, forcefully and against the officer pulls door shut, restarts the car, puts it in gear and start to flee.
Then and only then the officer points his weapon at the person now committing a felony (felony arrest evasion).
A round is discharged. I can't tell if it was an accidental discharge or an intentional discharge. If intentional I can't tell if the officer was in fear for his life or not.
But I can absolutely tell that it was Mr. Dubbed who chose to commit a felony prior to the incident escalating into use of deadly force.
Had he not committed that felony, no use of deadly force against him would likely have ensued.
No drivers license.
Bottle of alcohol in the passenger compartment.
When asked to exit the vehicle, forcefully and against the officer pulls door shut, restarts the car, puts it in gear and start to flee.
Then and only then the officer points his weapon at the person now committing a felony (felony arrest evasion).
A round is discharged. I can't tell if it was an accidental discharge or an intentional discharge. If intentional I can't tell if the officer was in fear for his life or not.
But I can absolutely tell that it was Mr. Dubbed who chose to commit a felony prior to the incident escalating into use of deadly force.
Had he not committed that felony, no use of deadly force against him would likely have ensued.
5
Look at the video. The bottle of alcohol was SEALED SHUT. It had not been opened.
1
It's puzzling, because during the stop the officer isn't rude or obnoxious in a way I find unacceptable. And while the driver may have been DUI and he didn't have his license, he also didn't seem threatening. And the officer doesn't seem threatened. So why the gun and the shooting? Fear, stupidity, bad training?
34
"Fear, stupidity, [or] bad training?"
Maybe, but this is how we live in America. This is not an anomaly. This is white America peering past the veil for the first time. All of this is not surprising in the least. We are explicitly taught how to handle police interactions: happy subservience. Act pleased to bend and scrape with profuse "yes, officer"s. I myself have had two very humiliating encounters where the officers made me perform repetitive tasks for his and his comrade's amusement.
(In one of these, I was moving and carrying my TV to my new apartment, the officer asked for my ID so I had to put the TV down, then let me go, then asked for my ID again so I had to put it down again, and then did it a third time before laughing while I walked away)
Maybe, but this is how we live in America. This is not an anomaly. This is white America peering past the veil for the first time. All of this is not surprising in the least. We are explicitly taught how to handle police interactions: happy subservience. Act pleased to bend and scrape with profuse "yes, officer"s. I myself have had two very humiliating encounters where the officers made me perform repetitive tasks for his and his comrade's amusement.
(In one of these, I was moving and carrying my TV to my new apartment, the officer asked for my ID so I had to put the TV down, then let me go, then asked for my ID again so I had to put it down again, and then did it a third time before laughing while I walked away)
One of the most heart breaking AND sickening things for me is; Where Are The Evangelical Christians; When are they going to say ANYTHING at all about this slaughter taking place? Why don't they take a "small" break in their all consuming efforts at protecting the unborn lives while not a single word from Ministers, from leadership- from any "Conservative" Christian/Political Radio ministry about the daily murders of unarmed Black citizens in this nation? "Christian Radio" is now "big business" reaching millions of listeners world wide:The hypocrisy simply makes me ill.
7
No amount of government training in the world will help a white bigoted cop police better when he comes across a black person or other "minority" in this country. You know when that training should've started? When that white cop was a child.
How many times did little Johnny hear horrid stories of non-whites being monsters and child abandoners and murderers, rapists and theives? Heck! Look at Trump "all Mexicans are rapists and murders". This is coming from a white billionaire passing this garbage to his children over Christmas dinners and he's vying for U.S. presidency! I'm afraid to even ask about the white average Joes in the rest of America regarding what they were taught.
Now little Johnny is all grown up and sworn in to protect. They pin him with a shiny badge and arm him with a gun, but more deadly than his firearm is his pre-cultured notion that certain people will always be monsters, rapists, murders and thieves. So now when a split decision needs to be made - it's so easy. "Kill the monster".
How many times did little Johnny hear horrid stories of non-whites being monsters and child abandoners and murderers, rapists and theives? Heck! Look at Trump "all Mexicans are rapists and murders". This is coming from a white billionaire passing this garbage to his children over Christmas dinners and he's vying for U.S. presidency! I'm afraid to even ask about the white average Joes in the rest of America regarding what they were taught.
Now little Johnny is all grown up and sworn in to protect. They pin him with a shiny badge and arm him with a gun, but more deadly than his firearm is his pre-cultured notion that certain people will always be monsters, rapists, murders and thieves. So now when a split decision needs to be made - it's so easy. "Kill the monster".
2
Another officer said he saw Tenson being dragged? He needs to be charged as well. Maybe not murder, but certainly as conspiring to conceal a crime.
6
Imagine if officer was not wearing the body cam. Is it legal to install dash cam in NYC?
Why is the race of the officer and of the deceased suddenly relevant? You did not mention it recently when a black officer was involved. Why only mention it when it's a white shooting a black?
4
Because white cops keep shooting black people.
1
@Here the race has always been relevant because as the article pointed out there has been a pattern of white officers shooting unarmed black men during traffic stops. The fact that you choose to ignore this is very telling.
1
Just let them go. Unless the driver is wanted on some serious charge don't chase if they run. You cops have got all their info. Get them later with the help of others. Sure, he didn't answer and was playing games. Get him later, without bloodshed .
1
It's about time for cops to be charged for murder when they murder people. That killer should go to jail like every other criminal.
6
Unbelievable video. All three cops told a bald-faced LIE.
Why did he pull a gun and shoot just because the man was running away? When someone makes a traffic stop, don't they already have the license plate called in, before even walking up to the vehicle? WHY MUST HE PULL A GUN?
What will stop this idiocy?
Why did he pull a gun and shoot just because the man was running away? When someone makes a traffic stop, don't they already have the license plate called in, before even walking up to the vehicle? WHY MUST HE PULL A GUN?
What will stop this idiocy?
10
He shot him in the face after pulling his arm down, then the car rolled away. The whole video is chilling
670 people killed by police shootings in the U.S. so far this year alone, despite all the press. http://www.killedbypolice.net A total of 6,000 Americans have been killed in combat since 1975 (end of Vietnam War) or last 40 years -- that's all the Iraq, Afghanistan, Gulf wars etc. put together. Police have killed as many civilians in the last five years alone. We are loosing EIGHT times as many people to police killings than to wars. Stopping this has got to be a national priority.
9
You conveniently ignore the 10-15,000 people killed by other citizens per year. You comment behind a computer while police apprehend criminals
1
“This office has probably reviewed 100 police shootings, and this is the first time we’ve thought, ‘This is without question a murder,’ ” he said.
I seriously doubt it. Every time that I've seen a police shooting it's almost always, without question, a murder. Since when is justifiable homicide not considered a murder, hm?
The killings will stop when police no longer have firearms.
I seriously doubt it. Every time that I've seen a police shooting it's almost always, without question, a murder. Since when is justifiable homicide not considered a murder, hm?
The killings will stop when police no longer have firearms.
7
Yeah that'll help Terry, an unarmed police officer. Please. Tell us how would they defend themselves against those who wish to do harm with their own handguns obtained no doubt illegally. You live in a dream world.
1. What the prosecutor meant was 'this is the first time we saw no way to avoid charging the cop with murder"
2. Agree completely that police murders will only stop when police no longer carry guns --there's simply no reason that an ordinary patrol officer should carry a gun on his hip.
2. Agree completely that police murders will only stop when police no longer carry guns --there's simply no reason that an ordinary patrol officer should carry a gun on his hip.
There is something seriously wrong ---- Events like this are happening far too often. It is starting to look like it's 'Open-Season' on Black people...Cry, the Beloved Country.
9
It has long been open season on black people. What has changed are the cameras contradicting police lies.
Now can we stop pretending that racism is solely a Southern or a Texan phenomenon? What happened to Samuel Duboise was utterly horrific: it was cold blooded murder. Far worse than the tense standoff and unwarranted arrest of Sandra Bland. But somehow we view this as the act of an incompetent, violent officer - while Sandra Bland's death was the fault of Waller County and its storied history.
.
Consider that, for a major State University, the University of Cincinnati is surprisingly white. UT, Texas A&M, LSU, the Unjversity of Alabama: they're all more diverse than the University of Cincinnati. And now an officer, employed by the University of actin innate, murdered a man in cold blood. The New York Times won't ask, so I will: what gives, Cincinnati?
.
Consider that, for a major State University, the University of Cincinnati is surprisingly white. UT, Texas A&M, LSU, the Unjversity of Alabama: they're all more diverse than the University of Cincinnati. And now an officer, employed by the University of actin innate, murdered a man in cold blood. The New York Times won't ask, so I will: what gives, Cincinnati?
3
If you carry a gun as a uniformed law enforcement agent, you should have to wear a camera. Everyone. No exceptions.
Can it be a federal law or do we have to wait for every PD in the country to get around to the 21st century?
Can it be a federal law or do we have to wait for every PD in the country to get around to the 21st century?
6
Just saw the video in slow motion on 700wlw website. This is 100% pure murder. Period. See it for yourselves.
14
The cop pulled his arm down before sooting him square in the face
Wow. Why is a black man's life NOT worth a hill of beans to these people?? I'm so confused. The stupid cop already had the license plate number, so he could have easily caught him once him drove off. You see so many white men hit, spit at, curse out cops yet their lives are not taken away from them over those terrible acts against police. So why was a man driving away so ruthless that he did not deserve to live anymore?? It wasn't. This is a shame. This is why black people stop trusting authority figures. The bad 10% always makes it worse for the good, decent ones. My 15-years-old son is starting to comment on how he's afraid of being mistaken for a criminal or thug and will be hurt by the police. He is a straight A, 10th grader who looks to become a surgeon, doctor, or dentist once he graduates high school. He should not have to be focused on losing his life because he is a tad darker than his white homeboys. Good officers, you all need to stand up for the badge and the honor you all swore to and weed out these rogue undeserving police officers. Wow, this is so sad.
31
It is ironic that this week a black man was killed for not having a front license plate. At the same time a beloved lion was killed in Africa. Both prompted universal outrage. Yes it may seem like apples and oranges, but both killings were senseless. Immediately, like maybe others who read these stories, I wanted revenge for both killers. The hunters being hunted. I know this is absurd and wrong, but that is the outrage I felt and still do. Let's stop the carnage.
7
....here the victim is a man, a human being, a black man..the lion was horrible...but I say again this was a human being....there is a huge difference
Thanks. I guess I wasn't clear about the point I was making.
It's so glaringly obvious to all but complete fools that police should not be allowed to have guns.
11
It's not at all obvious. Have you seriously considered the repercussions of unarmed police? And are you going to disarm only police, or all law enforcement agents?
I completely agree. Most police never use thier weapon over their entire career. Ordinary patrIl officers don't need it.
Well, that would be interesting watching the behavior of the criminals who still have guns.
Pulled him over for not having a tag on the front of his car, discovered he didn't have his driver's license on him, and killed him with a shot to the head when he tried to drive off.
These cops are out of control and it has to stop now.
These cops are out of control and it has to stop now.
29
I'm sure everyone has their own thoughts on the video .....I see a policeman acting seemingly by the book (as if he is very aware of the video) and a driver who definitely does not have it together and is kind of suspicious (no license, acting confused, bottle of gin on floor of front seat, etc.). And then of course, he drives off!
But still not a reason for shooting to kill. How about shooting the tire so he can't drive off?
But still not a reason for shooting to kill. How about shooting the tire so he can't drive off?
7
How about not shooting at all, that would seem more logical.
How about just let him go, like the prosecutor recommended.
Reason says that after reaching into the car to turn the keys in the ignition, the driver accelerated, beginning to drag the officer. At that point the officer draws with right hand and shoots with right hand. When officer stands up he is noticeably closer to grey car than he was at beginning of episode.
When confronted with a situation that doesn't seem to make sense, why insert racism? Why not consider the most likely scenario?
When confronted with a situation that doesn't seem to make sense, why insert racism? Why not consider the most likely scenario?
Congress needs to pass a moratorium on police arresting African-Americans until this whole mess gets straightened out.
6
I sure hope you're kidding!
This kind of stuff would also probably happen to white people. However we will never know, because whites tend to do as the police say.
I noticed that the cop asks him where Dubose "stays" at instead of "lives at." Does the police officer assume that he does not have a permanent home? That he's some sort of a freeloader? Does that play into why he killed him? This man LIVED somewhere, not STAYED. And he was KILLED for NOTHING.
And why does this 25 year old kid draw his gun so quickly? The lawyer mentions "Afghanistan." There is indeed a war on Black people in this country. It started the first day that we were brought to these shores.
This kid, who sounds like he is not long out of high school (which he isn't), is asking this 40 something man condescendingly over and over for a driver's license. It was already established that he didn't have one. So give him a ticket. You don't pull out a gun.
But when people comment about what's happening to our country, I just shake my head because this has always happened in our nation. The difference is the cameras. Now we see it. And it appears that it's happening every day.
And why does this 25 year old kid draw his gun so quickly? The lawyer mentions "Afghanistan." There is indeed a war on Black people in this country. It started the first day that we were brought to these shores.
This kid, who sounds like he is not long out of high school (which he isn't), is asking this 40 something man condescendingly over and over for a driver's license. It was already established that he didn't have one. So give him a ticket. You don't pull out a gun.
But when people comment about what's happening to our country, I just shake my head because this has always happened in our nation. The difference is the cameras. Now we see it. And it appears that it's happening every day.
33
" ... a driver's license. It was already established that he didn't have one. So give him a ticket."
You don't give a ticket to someone who is driving without a license and let them drive away.
And you don't let someone who appears to be drunk just drive away, either.
Unlicensed drivers and drunk drivers kill a lot more people than police officers do. To call this "a chicken-crap stop" is either naive beyond belief, or disingenuous.
You don't give a ticket to someone who is driving without a license and let them drive away.
And you don't let someone who appears to be drunk just drive away, either.
Unlicensed drivers and drunk drivers kill a lot more people than police officers do. To call this "a chicken-crap stop" is either naive beyond belief, or disingenuous.
The police officer sounded professional to me. As far as I could tell, he was repeatedly asking for the driver's license because the driver repeatedly said he had a driver's license. It was unlikely that this incident was going to end with simply a ticket, because it appeared that the driver had been drinking. I'm not justifying the shooting, but I don't see that the officer instigated an incident, if that's what you're implying.
It's unclear whether the cop was going to charge him with drunk driving. He kept going on about the license. Then all of a sudden the gun was out.
I agree that drunk driving is a scourge on this nation but there is no evidence that he was indeed drunk. Yes, there was a bottle on the floor but he gave it right to the officer. It wasn't like he was being evasive. But was he drunk? Was the bottle empty or full? How can you test for drunk driving by shooting him to death...the autopsy, I suppose.
Bottom line, the cop was on him about the license plate and license, not drunk driving. There is no evidence that Dubose was drunk or under any influence of alcohol.
I agree that drunk driving is a scourge on this nation but there is no evidence that he was indeed drunk. Yes, there was a bottle on the floor but he gave it right to the officer. It wasn't like he was being evasive. But was he drunk? Was the bottle empty or full? How can you test for drunk driving by shooting him to death...the autopsy, I suppose.
Bottom line, the cop was on him about the license plate and license, not drunk driving. There is no evidence that Dubose was drunk or under any influence of alcohol.
Commenters who are saying that Mr. Dubose "tried to flee the scene" or drive away....you are missing an important piece of information which resulted from the editing of this video. Google the full or uncensored version. Mr. Dubose was SHOT at the 1:45 mark of the video, BEFORE THE CAR STARTED TO MOVE. You don't see this here, because it's edited out. I initially assumed that the savage man with the gun chased him as he fled and crashed his car and then shot him after the car crashed. No. Mr. Dubose's car somehow went into drive after he was shot in the head. Who knows, maybe he was putting the car in drive at the time he was shot, but wow. 10 seconds between "Where do you stay, around here?" "yes, right up the way" and one man ending another's life. Incomprehensible.
My condolences to the family and to the family of Sandy Bland as well. Let's bring these savage beings to justice. It might dissuade the bad eggs (clearly not ALL cops are bad!) in the future. One can only hope.
My condolences to the family and to the family of Sandy Bland as well. Let's bring these savage beings to justice. It might dissuade the bad eggs (clearly not ALL cops are bad!) in the future. One can only hope.
44
I find it more amusing when the prosecuting Attorney Joseph Deters says that this sort of shooting does not happen in America, but in Afghanistan and elsewhere. He deceive himself. This savage is a product of his society, and its internal contradiction. No people is exceptional. We are all capable of the bestial. But it should be more shameful to the conscience of a self-righteous America.
@Lou: "Mr. Dubose was SHOT at the 1:45 mark of the video, BEFORE THE CAR STARTED TO MOVE."
After pulling his door closed, Mr. Dubose STARTED his engine (1:52).[1] That would be sufficient reason to believe that he intended to drive away. NB: He turned off the engine at 0:20 just before reaching for his glove compartment.
[1] WATCH: Police Officer Ray Tensing body cam, Samuel DuBose shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc
After pulling his door closed, Mr. Dubose STARTED his engine (1:52).[1] That would be sufficient reason to believe that he intended to drive away. NB: He turned off the engine at 0:20 just before reaching for his glove compartment.
[1] WATCH: Police Officer Ray Tensing body cam, Samuel DuBose shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0cdejrSjyc
Body cams, dashboard cams, should be required for all police and security personnel. Police should not be investigating themselves.
34
It must be written somewhere that police officers should be treated as Gods, where they can abuse you in any form they like and invoke the right that "he/she disobeyed my command". Guess what, the Gods sometimes are really not Gods.
No one is suggesting disobeying every police officer, but citizens do have the right to be treated as respectfully by all law enforcement officers. To have police officers allowed to do what they pleases without some form of passive resistance, gives the police officer rights way beyond what is required.
When murder is committed without any provocation, is the result of the embedded thought of law enforcement personnel, that they are endowed with powers way beyond anything and anyone. That culture of absolute power must be broken.
No one is suggesting disobeying every police officer, but citizens do have the right to be treated as respectfully by all law enforcement officers. To have police officers allowed to do what they pleases without some form of passive resistance, gives the police officer rights way beyond what is required.
When murder is committed without any provocation, is the result of the embedded thought of law enforcement personnel, that they are endowed with powers way beyond anything and anyone. That culture of absolute power must be broken.
34
Amen. Bullying is not protecting or serving the community.
1
Your attempt at high minded comments are ridiculous. You do not have a right to resist. You have a right to petition for redress. This should be done after the officer has your compliance. You, as a citizen, live in a society where we give officers of the law authority over us in these situations. Driving your car on a public road is a privilege, granted by your state and it comes with the understanding that you follow the laws and the authority of the people we charge with enforcing those laws. You do not have a right to question the lawful order of an officer.
As others have pointed out, had the driver cooperated with the police officer, had he followed instructions, had he not lied about his license, had not been drinking gin, carrying an open container, etc, this situation would not have escalated. That said, it escalated far beyond how it should have and the police officer acted disproportionately. But we cannot live in a society where we countenance citizens who do not cooperate with police. How often have we heard about incidents where police stop somebody and let them go and it turns out it was a criminal who went on to commit additional crimes. Had the driver cooperated he may have gotten a citation, maybe arrested, and possibly would have spent a day in jail. But that would have been the end of it. But the police officer has no way of knowing who he's dealing with, and whether this person is indeed dangerous and a threat to others. We need to cooperate with the police officers. That should be taught in schools, everybody needs to know that.
As the reputation of law enforcement sinks, I imagine the quality of new recruits sinking at an even quicker pace. It's vitally important for the police force to be able to attract the very best people into their ranks (Imagine a world where the police competed with the peace corps and nonprofits for applicants), a task that seems more impossible each time headlines like these appear.
11
Maybe the people who'd like to make the police force different will start to apply.
I teach English in Taiwan. My students no longer dream of travelling to America to study and work largely because of the safety issues presented in videos like these. What if there had been bystanders in the vicinity? We look like barbarians.
36
There were bystanders in the vicinity. Only 1 shot was fired. This is not a case of a cop unloading a pistol magazine at a person.
Good people,
Pre-crime is just a movie. I'm sure this young police officer had a hunch there was trouble to be found in that car and that's why he pulled over Mr Dubose.
Police work for the elected political figures to carry out there agenda. We need to put immense pressure on politicians to change what the police can and cannot do.
My take:
1. Don't discharge your weapon unless fired upon
2. Don't respond unless there is an actual crime occurring (no hunches)
3. Solo officers must wait for back-up before attempting to arrest
4. Minimum of an associates degree ( allows them to interact with other demographics besides their HS buddies)
Police work for us and if they don't like it they can apply with the sanitation department (where they still work for us).
Pre-crime is just a movie. I'm sure this young police officer had a hunch there was trouble to be found in that car and that's why he pulled over Mr Dubose.
Police work for the elected political figures to carry out there agenda. We need to put immense pressure on politicians to change what the police can and cannot do.
My take:
1. Don't discharge your weapon unless fired upon
2. Don't respond unless there is an actual crime occurring (no hunches)
3. Solo officers must wait for back-up before attempting to arrest
4. Minimum of an associates degree ( allows them to interact with other demographics besides their HS buddies)
Police work for us and if they don't like it they can apply with the sanitation department (where they still work for us).
16
Don't discharge your weapon unless fired upon? Where on earth does that nonsense come from! So your saying a cop has to play chicken and let a person fire first? That is ridiculous and reckless. Do what the officer asks. If you don't like what he is asking or ordering you to do then hand him your keys. Place your hands on the steering wheel and ask for a supervisor to back up the officer. Mouthing off, resisting commands and attempting to flee escalated this situation. This person created his own circumstance and this officer had to react. It may be the wrong reaction but it doesn't change the fact that if the driver did as he was told he would not be dead.
1. Officer should go into defensive mode before being fired upon. that first shot may be the one that kills him.
2. The Supreme Court has already ruled that officer "hunches" are a valid reason to stop. Police are very experienced at recognizing suspicious behavior.
3. Absolutely. A back up can provide assistance and act as a witness to what the camera does not catch.
4. That depends on what the degree is in. An Associates in Electronics Technologies wouldn't cut it for police work.
2. The Supreme Court has already ruled that officer "hunches" are a valid reason to stop. Police are very experienced at recognizing suspicious behavior.
3. Absolutely. A back up can provide assistance and act as a witness to what the camera does not catch.
4. That depends on what the degree is in. An Associates in Electronics Technologies wouldn't cut it for police work.
A campus cop? Really? Fire the top executives of the college.
It is mind boggling to think about how many such incidences must have happened in past when the cops got away with murder, before the days of body cams and mobile phones.
41
I dunno whether better training in de-escalation is what's most needed. Seems to me more screening is needed to avoid hiring cowards and men who panic easily, particularly if we're going to keep allowing cops to kill people because he or she "feared for my life."
I'm a 63-year-old white woman with no law-enforcement training, and I swear I would be less scared than the officers in many of these police-shooting videos seem to be. Being brave enough to resist blinding fear whenever someone pulls out a cell phone, reaches into a glove compartment, or turns an ignition key should be a basic qualification to work in law enforcement.
I'm a 63-year-old white woman with no law-enforcement training, and I swear I would be less scared than the officers in many of these police-shooting videos seem to be. Being brave enough to resist blinding fear whenever someone pulls out a cell phone, reaches into a glove compartment, or turns an ignition key should be a basic qualification to work in law enforcement.
39
"Seems to me more screening is needed to avoid hiring cowards and men who panic easily, particularly if we're going to keep allowing cops to kill people because he or she "feared for my life.""
Nail hit *squarely* on head.
Nail hit *squarely* on head.
1
You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. In your world only cops commit crimes? Do you not think that criminals only need a second to decide to kill you? You have no training and no experience and your comments are delusional. I have been in situations that went from mild to wild is a second. I have seen a person draw a gun and shoot her husband while we all watched. Until you are faced with the death and destruction a single person can create you should keep your ignorance to yourself.
Exactly --great comment. Police are actually trained to be afraid and view civilians as the enemy. Easy to see how that translated into lots of unjustified police shootings.
1
People see what they want to see, even when this video contradicts that. Many commenters have written that the officer shot after the car sped off. If you watch and listen closely, the victim pulls the door closed and turns the ignition, the officer then shoots him in the head. Only after the shooting does the motor rev and the car move. The officer's claims of being dragged prior to shooting the man in the head are false.
29
And even if he revved his car, so what. He doesn't deserve the death penalty.
Meanwhile, people like that kid who shot the 9 people in church get Burger King hamburgers after he is apprehended.
Meanwhile, people like that kid who shot the 9 people in church get Burger King hamburgers after he is apprehended.
25
@DH: "... the victim pulls the door closed and turns the ignition, the officer then shoots him in the head. "
You missed an important detail. The officer reached INTO the car BEFORE shooting. Presumably, he was attempting to turn off the engine. If so, that was a very stupid thing to do.
NB: You have to watch very closely in slow motion.
You missed an important detail. The officer reached INTO the car BEFORE shooting. Presumably, he was attempting to turn off the engine. If so, that was a very stupid thing to do.
NB: You have to watch very closely in slow motion.
“I think he lost his temper because Mr. Dubose wouldn’t get out of his car.”
Things need to cool down. Racist cops aren't doing beats to kill blacks, and blacks aren't waiting to argue and flee every officer they encounter. But both seem to kiss their brains goodbye when talking through that rolled-down window.
There's something about being questioned inside a vehicle that seems to provoke the worst in drivers and by extension, law enforcement. Heightened defensiveness, perception of liberty/rights being violated, racial profiling, anger at one's authority being questioned, all leading to irrational and dangerous acts and culminating in the use of deadly force. This incident could just as easily have ended with the officer shot (tons of videos on the net).
Without doubt it's murder and racism, but circumstances/behaviors need to be addressed and mitigated. First, stop questioning through rolled-down windows. Second, train officers for increased sensitivity when dealing with black drivers and pedestrians. Third, all drivers irrespective of race should be asked to step-out (if they don't do so voluntarily), only then questioned. And finally, searches inside vehicles should only be performed by backup, and only after suspects temporarily restrained outside their vehicle.
Things need to cool down. Racist cops aren't doing beats to kill blacks, and blacks aren't waiting to argue and flee every officer they encounter. But both seem to kiss their brains goodbye when talking through that rolled-down window.
There's something about being questioned inside a vehicle that seems to provoke the worst in drivers and by extension, law enforcement. Heightened defensiveness, perception of liberty/rights being violated, racial profiling, anger at one's authority being questioned, all leading to irrational and dangerous acts and culminating in the use of deadly force. This incident could just as easily have ended with the officer shot (tons of videos on the net).
Without doubt it's murder and racism, but circumstances/behaviors need to be addressed and mitigated. First, stop questioning through rolled-down windows. Second, train officers for increased sensitivity when dealing with black drivers and pedestrians. Third, all drivers irrespective of race should be asked to step-out (if they don't do so voluntarily), only then questioned. And finally, searches inside vehicles should only be performed by backup, and only after suspects temporarily restrained outside their vehicle.
3
How would this officer be shot? It was not established that Dubose had a gun.
7
Searches inside vehicles can ONLY ONLY ONLY be done with probable cause, and if the driver is smart, ONLY AFTER a search warrant is obtained and presented. Do Not EVER allow a cop to search your car for any reason EVER, without a warrant.
Jill Duncan
Denver, CO
Jill Duncan
Denver, CO
Without a doubt? I watched the video and I heard the officer ask several questions, very politely, ask him to step out of the vehicle and then he grabbed the door. The driver grabbed at the door and then the driver started his car and put it in gear. I get it, it looks bad on video but convicting an officer before we have all the facts is detrimental to our society. When will blacks learn to respect the authority of an officer of the law. Do as you are told and keep your hands visible. I would never do what this driver did. I would also give an officer a little room to be human. None of this would of happened if the driver had behaved properly. The situation escalated because of his actions. I'm not condoning the shooting, I'm pointing out the fact that we ask cops to do a very dangerous job and every day they are disrespected and disobeyed. The time to question an officers demands is after the encounter or when back up arrives. You don't argue, you don't disobey and you don't resist. driving is a pro alive, not a right. You do not know why an officer needs you to comply. You are not allowed to resist because you say you are doing nothing wrong. The officer has the authority to stop you, question you and detain you. Period. Follow those rules and you won't get shot.
1
What I find confusing is why the 2 other officers aren't being charged with obstruction of justice ?
60
From what I could ascertain from the article, it would appear that the second officer was complicit in the lie, but the 3rd officer, the one who wrote the report, admittedly came on the scene after the incident and simply reported what the other two said and noted how the uniform looked. Which probably happened when the murdering officer fell over. It doesn't sound like he was trying to protect him or lie, but the 2nd officer sure did, and you are quite correct, he should face charges too.
Exactly. Both lied to investigators, which is a felony offense in most juristictions.
I'll start believin in all the Good Cops out there when they start testifying against all the bad ones.
When people of color have been telling you for ages about these things they have been consistently portrayed as exaggerations. These things DO happen in America and the only reason the are becoming mainstream is because of the proliferation of cameras. But 24 years after Rodney King you have no right to be surprised when a white cop kills a black man for nothing. This happens ALL THE TIME. And if this happens today you can only imagine what was it like back in the 70's or 80's. Be ashamed because you are the smart people who allowed this to happen. You looked the other way for all these years. Willful ignorance is not innocence. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
55
Rodney king was criminal and was committing crimes. Your opinion on his situation proves you don't know what you are talking about.
1
This doesn't happen in the USA? You don't get shot for a traffic stop? If this weren't so tragic, Deters' naïveté would be laughable.
The WHOLE POINT here is that people DO get shot for traffic stops, and almost exclusively if they're black.
Bad cops need to do the hardest time. We entrust them with weapons and the right to use them with an assumption that if they do, they're justified. Violating that trust must be dealt with in the severest terms. And the blue wall needs to come down whenever it rears its ugly head. Protecting a bad cop is a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Lock 'em all up.
The WHOLE POINT here is that people DO get shot for traffic stops, and almost exclusively if they're black.
Bad cops need to do the hardest time. We entrust them with weapons and the right to use them with an assumption that if they do, they're justified. Violating that trust must be dealt with in the severest terms. And the blue wall needs to come down whenever it rears its ugly head. Protecting a bad cop is a conspiracy to obstruct justice. Lock 'em all up.
45
I think he meant it's not supposed to happen. Clearly it does happen all the time. At least he's holding the cop accountable. Maybe this will have a domino effect and start the ball of justice rolling in America. Hopefully. We can hope, can't we?
Yeah....lets just fire all the cops and leave you and fellow citizens to your own devices. You would beg for cops after a week.
No greater travesty than murder, but the other two officers are lied get pretty close.
32
Odd that that is your takeaway from watching a video of a murder. By the way, there are sound procedures in place, even for when a motorists flees. And usually, a high-speed chase isn't even called for. That doesn't mean the driver should get away with it, or even that driving without a license is ok. Bottom line: The cop should've reached for his radio, not his gun.
31
This was a reply to the statement, "There seems to be an epidemic of noncompliance with police instructions" made by AACNY.
and again and again and again, he did not flee he was mortally shot at point blank range, slumped forward and the car went into motion. He was instantly, brutally killed
1
I will be interested to see what comes out in the trial and what the verdict is. I am very sad that Mr. DuBose was shot and killed, but I am inclined to wait and hear all the details before forming a judgement.
8
Great that you want to reserve judgment, but if you've seen the unedited video (I've seen it twice), this is a no-brainer. There's a reason the county prosecutor said, "I've been doing this for over 30 years. This is the most asinine act I've ever seen a police officer make -- totally unwarranted. It's an absolute tragedy in the year 2015 that anyone would behave in this manner. It was senseless."
1
It seems that with the images from the body cam and the license plate number of the car--it was on the back--that the police could track this guy down after he drove away. If it is not an important enough violation to go to the trouble to track down the guy it sure seems like it shouldn't be sufficient cause to justify shooting him in the head.
20
He wasn't shot in the head because he was missing a license plate! He was legally pulled over and asked for identification, asked to step from the vehicle and then resisted. He started his engin, pulled his door closed and obviously put the car in gear to flee. The situation was escalated by the driver. The cop was reacting. It looks bad but the facts are not in yet.
"It seems that with the ... license plate number of the car ... the police could track this guy down after he drove away."
Another unbelievably naive comment.
The driver says he hasn't his license with him. Most people carry their driver license at all times; I can't imagine anyone not having it when driving. So the guy probably hasn't a valid license, or doesn't want to show a document with his address. Legitimate grounds to suspect the car is stolen.
Also - if you knew you could be traced from the car's license plate - you would never do a runner from a traffic stop. Reinforces the probability the car is stolen.
Not to excuse police shooting people, but let's have a little common sense here.
Another unbelievably naive comment.
The driver says he hasn't his license with him. Most people carry their driver license at all times; I can't imagine anyone not having it when driving. So the guy probably hasn't a valid license, or doesn't want to show a document with his address. Legitimate grounds to suspect the car is stolen.
Also - if you knew you could be traced from the car's license plate - you would never do a runner from a traffic stop. Reinforces the probability the car is stolen.
Not to excuse police shooting people, but let's have a little common sense here.
In defense of police officers when they stop drivers, the gun culture in this country is so crazy and so pervasive that the police have no idea who's going to pull out a gun and shoot them first. That doesn't make any of these deaths acceptable - they're all absolutely wrong. But I wish there weren't so many guns floating around in the first place, so that no one would have to wonder who's carrying, or if the guy sitting in the next pew during Bible study might be crazy.
53
The data does not support that as a rational fear.
1
THere was zero behavior that would indicate he had a gun. None, not one. In most of this endless parage of murders there is not. That sort of reasoning serves only to excuse rabid responses by the police to any situation they choose. This was a choice, do not forget that. He choice to kill that man,
1
Here is another example of a trigger happy officer. More training is needed for officers. They need to rely on a plethora of skill sets rather than just pulling their handgun.I believe that empathy, a spirit of understanding and service, and de-escalation techniques would go a long way. Everyone knows officers are trained to kill if they have to, but this should only be a last resort. While the books put it as such, it is not practiced as uniformly as one would like it to be so.
10
I'm disgusted with all the reactionary defenders of the campus police officer who killed an unarmed man. Yes, of course, it would have been better if Samuel Dubose drove away without being murdered. If needed, he could have been served a warrant at his home. It's abhorrent that people think murder is the first, best, most rational way to deal with non-compliance to a (campus) police officer. There's no way this kind of thinking isn't based in a view of the world in which black lives are less important than white lives. It's completely informed by white supremacist ideology.
77
It's not "white supremacist ideology" to examine details closely and try to figure out exactly what happened. You are confusing scrutiny with excusing the officer's behavior.
7
@AACNY It is "white supremacist ideology" when your scrutiny of any actions is to find a way to EXCUSE the white officer from taking a black life instead of scrutinizing the actions of that same white officer in power - to verify if there was a better way in NOT taking that black life.
I'm disgusted with the view that he should of been allowed to drive away. That's not an option. Are you saying we all should disregard lawful orders and do as we please? If a criminal had just driven away from a lawful stop and then killed one of your family members you would have a different attitude.
The video has a brief, unexplained instant when the body cam, which is chest-mounted, is pointed straight up at the sky, as if the officer is falling. You can see clouds directly overhead. According to NBC News, the officer's defense attorneys say there is another video that backs up the officer's claim he was dragged for a few steps. This might not be apparent in the attached video, because the officer is moving along with the car as it starts forward. So, we will have to wait and see is there really is a second video.
6
You can't be serious? God forbid someone with your observation and comprehension skills ever serve on a jury. The point in the video you are referring to, where the camera points to the sky and the officer may be dragged for a bit, is AFTER the officer has shot Mr. Dubose in the head. So with a fatal head wound, yes, Mr. Dubose drove off. He was likely already dead at the time. Shame on him for stepping on the gas...
How on earth can you possibly watch that video and think that a 2nd video may show that the officer was dragged which caused him to shoot?! C'mon William, please pay attention and apply some common sense.
How on earth can you possibly watch that video and think that a 2nd video may show that the officer was dragged which caused him to shoot?! C'mon William, please pay attention and apply some common sense.
1
That happens AFTER he's already killed the man. Watch sone of the slo-mo versions
1
Exactly, it is clear that something goes very wrong for the officer, given the gyrations of the camera. We do not see the whole picture. Lets wait. It is too bad that everyone's comments seem to reinforce that it is okay for the driver to behave this way.
Two things are very clear to me:
1) We need good police forces to protect the population against bad people'
2) Not everyone who is a cop should be a cop. Sometimes border line criminals are made cops and they have no business carrying a badge or holding a gun.
1) We need good police forces to protect the population against bad people'
2) Not everyone who is a cop should be a cop. Sometimes border line criminals are made cops and they have no business carrying a badge or holding a gun.
11
I can't imagine sending my kids to a school where the campus police (really security officers) carry guns.
But if this is the norm today, then we really need to rethink where we are as a society as it seems we have sunk to the lowest form of survival of the most armed.
Something has to change.
But if this is the norm today, then we really need to rethink where we are as a society as it seems we have sunk to the lowest form of survival of the most armed.
Something has to change.
16
Murder? Negligent homicide perhaps but not murder. The video is unclear a to what occurred.
There is no doubt however that the murder indictment is a political, not legal, statement, intended more to head off civil unrest in the city than to prosecute a criminal act.
There is no doubt however that the murder indictment is a political, not legal, statement, intended more to head off civil unrest in the city than to prosecute a criminal act.
6
So Mr. Armchair law degree. How is shooting someone in the head point blank not murder?
I don't know what video you watched bro. Looks like murder to me.
If it were two ordinary citizens, would it have been murder?
I'm a white female. Somewhere along the way, I developed a habit of arguing with cops and did this in my youth. It now seems very odd to me -- it's not that I was stopped that often, but I remember doing this and I remember the time my husband explained to me that I was never to do that again.
My husband is black. He said simply, "The have guns. Don't argue with them."
From that moment forward I realize that they are armed and dangerous. I must not trust them; must not assume that I can argue with them with impunity. I would treat them gingerly, aware of the threat they are.
He was trained, though. Trained by SNCC, where he worked in the South in the 1960s. Everyone needs to get training on how to handle our out-of-control, poorly trained, armed and dangerous cops, especially people of color, obviously.
My husband is black. He said simply, "The have guns. Don't argue with them."
From that moment forward I realize that they are armed and dangerous. I must not trust them; must not assume that I can argue with them with impunity. I would treat them gingerly, aware of the threat they are.
He was trained, though. Trained by SNCC, where he worked in the South in the 1960s. Everyone needs to get training on how to handle our out-of-control, poorly trained, armed and dangerous cops, especially people of color, obviously.
27
Your husband gave you excellent advice.
My parents told me the same thing, growing up in a rural North Carolina town in the 90s. Being well-versed in the history of the American South, I had a healthy fear of police interactions with non-whites; and being born in a less "developed" country, an understanding that police are not necessarily interested in justice or public safety, despite what the logos on car say.
One thing should be clear to everyone in all of these cases. At any price, body cameras should be on every police officer. It protects both sides and tends to make people think twice about what they are doing. They should be mandatory and I for one don't mind paying a few bucks extra in taxes to see justice done. Mr. Dubose will get justice only because of the body camera. An honest cop has nothing to hide.
13
How typical is this situation: black man detained by the cops for something minor, gets defensive and is killed. I think we have to look a bit more closely at this dynamic to find a solution. Why does the cop pull him over in the first place: no license plate on the front. Guy gets defensive and tries to flee because he's drunk and or doesn't have his license and or may have priors but straight up, doesn't want to get arrested. Think of the dynamic between black people and the cops: fear and mistrust of each other which makes for a tense situation during every traffic stop with a cop and a person of color. This is so ingrained in the American experience because it goes back to the first black slave in America with an overseer. Consider the struggle, I try to take you hostage, are you going to give up without a fight? That is the dynamic we see here, the oppressor and the oppressed, one trying to take the other and the other saying no I won't be taken! Overseer vs slave, lynch mob vs black man, corrections offices vs prisoner. Generations of fear. I know I'm going to get negative feedback on that but tell me it's not the case that when a white person sees a person of color there are feelings there, thoughts, tension, tendencies. They might be deep down and instinctual, but they are there. This is a tragedy with no end in sight and I'm not going to pretend this is going away because of body cameras.
15
Couple of thoughts.
First, when I was in college at UW-Oshkosh the campus police did not carry guns.
Second, this whole stop should never have occurred and police must stop shooting people when their life is not in danger.
Third, I do find it provocative that Mr. Dubose did reach for the keys and re-start the car making it appear that he was going to drive off, but again there is no reason for this office discharge his firearm.
First, when I was in college at UW-Oshkosh the campus police did not carry guns.
Second, this whole stop should never have occurred and police must stop shooting people when their life is not in danger.
Third, I do find it provocative that Mr. Dubose did reach for the keys and re-start the car making it appear that he was going to drive off, but again there is no reason for this office discharge his firearm.
12
Oshkosh is a bit different from one of the more rundown areas of Cincinnati, isn't it?
The scariest part of the video is that up until the 2 minute mark, there is no indication that an innocent murder is going to be committed in the next few seconds.
10
The number of people commenting on this article who seem to be okay with what happened because the victim didn't comply with the officer's orders is beyond shocking. Yes, the man wasn't complying - it was grounds for placing him under arrest. But when did resisting arrest ever result in an immediate death sentence?
32
Strange comment. In most countries, if you run away from a police officer to avoid arrest, the police officer can use a firearm to stop you from getting away.
Y Towner, why don't you go ahead and list those countries for us?
You won't, because what you are saying is not true except for the most autocratic countries. In most advanced countries, years go by without the police killing anyone.
You won't, because what you are saying is not true except for the most autocratic countries. In most advanced countries, years go by without the police killing anyone.
This is part of a police culture where the uniform is seen as a badge of power, not public service, and a license to oppress, harass and demean. While, as a matter of certainty there are conscientious, honest, hardworking and scrupulously fair police officers, they are tainted by a considerable number of unfit, dishonest, and plain crazy cops with guns and pepper spray.
28
"This is part of a police culture where the uniform is seen as a badge of power, not public service, and a license to oppress, harass and demean."
You have stated a deep truth which not many people want to acknowledge.
You have stated a deep truth which not many people want to acknowledge.
1
I'll start believing in all those "conscientious, honest, hardworking and scrupulously fair police officers" when they testifying against the "unfit, dishonest, plain crazy" ones.
1
The victim did everything wrong in this situation. He was (most likely) drinking and driving, avoiding the officer's questions, being cryptic with his answers, and then, as a kicker, turned on the car and attempted to drive away. Since when is it OK to do any of that? If he would have cooperated, this tragedy could have been completely avoided. Now he's going to be turned into a false martyr.
All of that being said, did he deserve to be shot? Based on the video, probably not. It would have made more sense for the cop to retreat to his car and pursue him that way instead. He messed up big time, there's no doubt about that, and he deserves to be fired and perhaps charged, too. But I hesitate to claim he actions were in any way racist. It's of my opinion that he's just a young, inexperienced cop who reacted rashly to what he (perhaps) justifiably believed to be a life-threatening situation.
Both victim and perpetrator were in the wrong here. Like most things, there's little black-and-white and a whole lot of gray. Sad story all the way around.
All of that being said, did he deserve to be shot? Based on the video, probably not. It would have made more sense for the cop to retreat to his car and pursue him that way instead. He messed up big time, there's no doubt about that, and he deserves to be fired and perhaps charged, too. But I hesitate to claim he actions were in any way racist. It's of my opinion that he's just a young, inexperienced cop who reacted rashly to what he (perhaps) justifiably believed to be a life-threatening situation.
Both victim and perpetrator were in the wrong here. Like most things, there's little black-and-white and a whole lot of gray. Sad story all the way around.
5
No, you are wrong. This murder is 100% the cop's to own. The victim running (driving) away is not call for pulling a gun.
Justifiable action would have been citing him for the absent driver's license, or asking him to step out for a sobriety test. Justifiable action for driving away would be to run the DMV check and track him to his home. Immediately pulling a gun and shooting him just because he is driving away is ridiculous.
Justifiable action would have been citing him for the absent driver's license, or asking him to step out for a sobriety test. Justifiable action for driving away would be to run the DMV check and track him to his home. Immediately pulling a gun and shooting him just because he is driving away is ridiculous.
How about absolutely not. The man did not deserve to be killed. There is zero gray and sitting behind a keyboard clicking away, dryly picking apart the victim to excuse the cop will not change that. It does mean that the problem will persist for a very long time as long as the attitude black life is somehow transitory, less valued and of question persists
What has happened to the world's sole superpower? When Mr.Obama was elected as President, the whole world rejoiced that racial discrimination has ended in the U.S. But the recent surge of attacks on Africa American brothers has only diminished our hopes. However, act of a few individuals cannot reflect the mindset of the entire white community.
In the present case, the police officer need not have taken the extreme measure of shooting the driver. Hope justice prevails in this case.
In the present case, the police officer need not have taken the extreme measure of shooting the driver. Hope justice prevails in this case.
5
Most states have a fleeing-felon law, where an officer is allowed to draw his weapon only in the commission of a felony. I don't think a missing front license plate qualifies. In the meantime, over the next few months I'm sure we can expect a torrent of character assassination charges from Officer Tensing's attorney about Samuel DuBose, in an effort to illustrate what a disreputable human being Mr. DuBose really was.
It doesn't matter. A missing license plate, a pint of gin and a lost driver's license don't add up to a capital crime.
It doesn't matter. A missing license plate, a pint of gin and a lost driver's license don't add up to a capital crime.
32
Just as in the shootings at a church or a theater, these events seem to be the end result of the social media era.
People who believe guns are good are aggressive, those who do not seem defensive.
Both are OK, those are not harsh terms, but feeling aggressive about guns is definitely a "guy" testosterone thing. As we hear over and over and over ...
Training doesn't start with "here's your weapon, here's why and how to use it." It mostly means here is when not to use it. Maybe.
The opening photo on the video on this site is strong, but haven't most of us seen that in a dozen movies? The officer is 25 ~ my guess is that became immune to a lot of violence on xBox and the like.
People who believe guns are good are aggressive, those who do not seem defensive.
Both are OK, those are not harsh terms, but feeling aggressive about guns is definitely a "guy" testosterone thing. As we hear over and over and over ...
Training doesn't start with "here's your weapon, here's why and how to use it." It mostly means here is when not to use it. Maybe.
The opening photo on the video on this site is strong, but haven't most of us seen that in a dozen movies? The officer is 25 ~ my guess is that became immune to a lot of violence on xBox and the like.
1
I feel this is a clear case like many others of murder. I am a man of color and I really don't care what other races think of my opinion when it comes down to it because why do we as human beings always have to try and convince every one else that we a being senselessly murdered by criminal cops and these are the one who supposed to restore peace or who are sworn to protect the public. but instead put themselves in hostel situations then call themselves justified with their homicides. We have watched over and over again clear cases of murder with no doubt yet turn around and hear not guilty! believe me I'm not one who will keep asking and begging for peace and I'm not the one who would stand by and let a rabid dog bite me. and what I've seen In the last month alone is a bunch of rabid dogs biting men and women who has complied and who were unarmed. So I will say this and leave it at that. we have been trying peacefully long enough and now it's time for a change and it's time to start protecting ourselves against this type of behavior. if we must be our own protector then so be it. no more senseless dying like some undervalue piece of meat we are not animals we are human beings. I'm not telling anyone to commit any crime but I will say that you have a right to defend yourself if your life is in danger no matter what. And that is your God given rights period. May God bless us all and protect us all from all harm because obviously no one else will.
25
It seems like that standards of being an officer varies wildly within our country. Some places have high standards where you will need college level credits and pass exams while some areas require only a high school diploma. In our profession, we have to attend schooling for a number of years, board exams, fulfilling a rigorous set of national standards, and some post graduate training for us to be licensed. Perhaps to be an officer of the law who has the power of life and death with a deadly weapon, there should be some sort of set standards too (hopefully something more than just a high school diploma?). Hopefully by having higher standards, some of these people who are not really made for this profession can be vetted out and we will have less of these unfortunate incidents from happening.
5
One needs a Bachelor's Degree to become a NY State Trooper.
This is truly tragic. In my own experience, I had a close friend shot dead unarmed in Houston, TX a long time ago. He was about 19 years old. The main difference was my friend was white with long hair (like me). The police didn't like his long hair. Anyway, the police used a "throw down" gun. None of them were ever convicted of anything. My friend's father spent all the money he had trying to prove the guilt of the police and the innocence of his son. He waas unsuccessful indoing so "in court". There was even a TV movie made of this event. So I may have a cynical view of what will happen. Ever since then, I have paid close attention to cases like this. opinion based on past performances of this nature. I bet you the police officer will be found not guilty on the murder charge. As far as the manslaughter charge, he MIGHT be found guilty to a reduced charge of involuntary manslaughter. If so, he might get a couple of years or a suspended sentece with probation and counseling, or some other watered down pablum. I truly hope I am wrong, and the officer gets the worst; especially after blatantly lying about being dragged by the car. He deserves this. I am glad they seem to have a sharp DA in charge.
16
I was driving up an Interstate highway 10 yrs. ago as Hurricane Katrina moved inland. I stopped on the far side of a four lane highway to shoot some video of a place where a tornado had evidently hit a wooded area. There were no cars in sight. The whole area was almost completely deserted. After a minute or so, I saw a car approaching and went to my car to move it, since it was sitting on the very edge of the highway. It was a police officer approaching.
I motioned to the officer in the direction of my car as I walked, got in the vehicle to move it when, after having stopped to watch me, he slammed his car into gear and nearly rammed mine. Then, he jumped out of the police car screaming at me. At that moment, I realized I was in serious jeopardy, alone with just me and the officer far from any towns, no witnesses.
Having seen the rage of a police officer once at a rock concert and been a witness to such as a reporter, I did everything I could to react calmly. After screaming a bit, he let me go ahead and move my vehicle.
Anything could have happened. I am white and the officer was also white. Why he reacted in such a belligerent, angry way I will never know. I was moving the car, but I guess not fast enough for him. This, however, is the kind of treatment I have been led to believe one would see from an officer in Mississippi.
This could happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time. Being black increases the odds greatly. One mistaken move I could have been shot, too.
I motioned to the officer in the direction of my car as I walked, got in the vehicle to move it when, after having stopped to watch me, he slammed his car into gear and nearly rammed mine. Then, he jumped out of the police car screaming at me. At that moment, I realized I was in serious jeopardy, alone with just me and the officer far from any towns, no witnesses.
Having seen the rage of a police officer once at a rock concert and been a witness to such as a reporter, I did everything I could to react calmly. After screaming a bit, he let me go ahead and move my vehicle.
Anything could have happened. I am white and the officer was also white. Why he reacted in such a belligerent, angry way I will never know. I was moving the car, but I guess not fast enough for him. This, however, is the kind of treatment I have been led to believe one would see from an officer in Mississippi.
This could happen to anyone, anywhere, at any time. Being black increases the odds greatly. One mistaken move I could have been shot, too.
17
Meaningful top to bottom reform of police departments across the country is sorely needed. Wide view cameras on all officers that stream footage to a cloud so it cannot be erased is important. But how about not pulling people over in the first place for trivial issues as missing front plates, expired tags, etc.? Equip police cars with cameras to take a picture of the car they would normally pull over and send tickets in the mail as a warning or fine. This is how some speeding tickets are currently processed. Efficient use of technology may save many lives.
10
'Complying with the police' - this mantra has apparently given god-like powers to the cops all over the country.
It is time to reform the cops and change their mentality. Cops would need to learn the techniques of deescalation, and to deal with minor offenses without using deadly force.
Yes, it is about time - to reign in and reform the cops. They should realize that their actions are accountable and and they are hired, in the first place, to protect the citizens of this land.
It is time to reform the cops and change their mentality. Cops would need to learn the techniques of deescalation, and to deal with minor offenses without using deadly force.
Yes, it is about time - to reign in and reform the cops. They should realize that their actions are accountable and and they are hired, in the first place, to protect the citizens of this land.
16
There seems to be an epidemic of noncompliance with police instructions. The assumption should now be that no one will comply. Develop sound procedures based on that.
11
Do you think that maybe police whose idea of handling difficult people is to kill them might be a problem, then?
2
Yes, AACNY. According to you and some other repub commenters, all "non-compliant" people who don't grovel at the feet of the police should be executed because they don't know "their place" and show deference to these superior beings. What kind of person are you that advocates for murder? Really despicable.
4
Police don't give instructions, unless they are instructors in a police academy. Police give directions. If their directions are unlawful, as all too frequently they are, then no one has any legal duty to comply with those directions. The public needs to know their rights, know what the police may and may not lawfully direct, and refuse to let the police take away and deprive them of their civil liberties.
3
Deplorable, senseless, barbaric, racist, psychopathic, wanton, evil.. Have we run out of adjectives yet?
27
If we have, we could make room by expunging the ones on your list that have no basis in fact.
Perhaps what happened is that police officer's intuition accurately told him that the suspect was about to make a move. Fear welled up as he thought "This is it! This is moment when I am about to fight for my life! He is about to come after me! Get ready! Get ready!"
It was only after the explosion of action that he realized that the sudden move had been to flee rather than attack. By then, the shot had been fired.
It was only after the explosion of action that he realized that the sudden move had been to flee rather than attack. By then, the shot had been fired.
2
I agree with your analysis. Once the officer realized the suspect was about to drive away, the thought of being dragged or run over came to mind since he was so close to the vehicle. At that point composure is gone and self preservation kicks in.
1
Are cops facing more dangerous situations, which would explain their extreme responses, or are their reactions simply becoming more extreme?
While their response is definitely the problem, there is also a problem with people's disregard for police instructions. Is this the new normal or the exception? It's been evident in almost every controversial case. (Bratton wants to make resisting arrest a felony.)
My question is whether this greater resistance actually poses greater danger to the officer or just complicates things? What is causing their outsized response? Charging "racism" or "stupidity" is too simple, in my opinion, to capture what they are experiencing.
We need to examine the officers' feelings of being threatened when someone is resisting. Is it justified? I don't recall seeing any statistics on these things.
While their response is definitely the problem, there is also a problem with people's disregard for police instructions. Is this the new normal or the exception? It's been evident in almost every controversial case. (Bratton wants to make resisting arrest a felony.)
My question is whether this greater resistance actually poses greater danger to the officer or just complicates things? What is causing their outsized response? Charging "racism" or "stupidity" is too simple, in my opinion, to capture what they are experiencing.
We need to examine the officers' feelings of being threatened when someone is resisting. Is it justified? I don't recall seeing any statistics on these things.
2
Well that's called "the gray area" ... Even your best intentioned actions can still result in you going to jail. That's part of the awesome responsibility of being law enforcement.
1
Mr. Deters is certain about Officer Tensing having deliberately killed Mr. Dubose in this incident. But the video does not really show that part of the incident in a manner that provides enough clarity to make that conclusion obvious. When Tensing tells Dubose to take off his safety belt so that he may get out of the car, Dubose quickly acts to flee the scene, instead. After that the camera is shaking so badly it's difficult to see what is going on until the vehicle is stopped after crashing into something off the roadway. It is not at all clear why Dubose is seeking to flee. It is also not clear whether the officer deliberately or unintentionally discharged the gun. Mr. Deters may have proof but this video seems to present more questions than answers.
10
He pointed it point blank range at the man's face and pulled the trigger. It was intentional to anyone being honest. And it seems to me that the deceased reacted to seeing the officer pull his gun int he first place. Need I remind you that this man was pulled over for a missing front license plate....not missing license plates entirely...just on the front. The officer badgered him after already having been told he didn't have his license on him. I would have felt badgered and harassed had I been in his position but, alas, I am white and wouldn't have been treated that way.
5
Dubose was trying to avoid getting shot. Sadly, he failed.
2
Um, maybe he "attempted to flee" because he had a gun pointed at his head. It doesn't appear to me that he ever attempted to flee. He had both HANDS UP when he was executed by Tensing.
1
In all seriousness...What's the officer's proper course of action when a motorist driving with a bottle of alcohol on his floor, cannot present a license, refuses to get out of his car and attempts to drive off? Wave bye-bye? I guess we're saying that there was an earlier moment when he should have called in 1-2 backup patrol cars so that flight was not possible; but you're not getting any of that from Mr. Deter's all the way up there on his lofty pony.
5
The officer already had the car's make and model and its plate number. He could have requested his dispatcher to alert all other campus police, as well as the Cincinnati PD, to be on the lookout for, and to stop, the vehicle. At that point, we were still only talking about a missing front plate. Do you seriously believe that it was so important to stop this driver right then and there even if it meant killing him?
6
He's supposed to shoot him in the head. This is the USA -- cops are entitled to kill a driver who does not present a license.
1
The proper response is to murder him, obviously. Fleeing from a traffic stop is, I believe, a capital offense.
4
Indictments are a political sop.
When convictions start happening then some sort of justice will finally begin.
Spare me the sanctimonious blathering about "twelve good men and true" unless the jury is 12 twenty-something black men.
When convictions start happening then some sort of justice will finally begin.
Spare me the sanctimonious blathering about "twelve good men and true" unless the jury is 12 twenty-something black men.
6
How many times did the officer ask for his license? How many excuses did the officer receive? Why did he take off like that? Cooperation is prevention.
20
So the appropriate response for "non-cooperation" is immediate death? No arrest? No trial? No jury? Bang? You don't "cooperate" so you DIE??
What country are you from? Clearly you have no understanding old the U.S. criminal justice system. Shooting someone in the brain at close range -- the ultimate kill shot -- is not the legal method for handling anything other than clear-cut self defense. Immediate execution is NOT the punishment for driving without a license.
What country are you from? Clearly you have no understanding old the U.S. criminal justice system. Shooting someone in the brain at close range -- the ultimate kill shot -- is not the legal method for handling anything other than clear-cut self defense. Immediate execution is NOT the punishment for driving without a license.
6
If only the officer didn't execute a frivolous stop he wouldn't be facing 25 to life. Imagine the regret this officer has now.
4
So shoot him in the head? Really?
Why was a campus cop making a traffic stop for a missing plate anyway?
Why was a campus cop making a traffic stop for a missing plate anyway?
1
If you watch the unedited,full video, you can see a pothole on the ground a little bit up the road, in front of the car (near the car in front). After the struggle, and the cop shoots the guy, he falls on the ground. When he is getting back up, he is at the pothole.
The only way that could have happen is if he had been drug up the street by the car. The velocity of the car moving forward would have prevented the officer from removing himself from the car which is why he still had his hand inside the car.
After that, he is running after the car, because it had been in gear and moving, and crashes into something on the corner of the road up the street. Unfortunately, the only way for him to free himself was to shoot the driver. I feel the video has not been completely analyzed with the comments that have been made in the media.
At first glance of the video, I thought he has ruthlessly killed the victim as well, because the camera does not show the movement, but by looking at the landmarks, you can see that the officer and his witnesses are telling the truth.
The only way that could have happen is if he had been drug up the street by the car. The velocity of the car moving forward would have prevented the officer from removing himself from the car which is why he still had his hand inside the car.
After that, he is running after the car, because it had been in gear and moving, and crashes into something on the corner of the road up the street. Unfortunately, the only way for him to free himself was to shoot the driver. I feel the video has not been completely analyzed with the comments that have been made in the media.
At first glance of the video, I thought he has ruthlessly killed the victim as well, because the camera does not show the movement, but by looking at the landmarks, you can see that the officer and his witnesses are telling the truth.
9
The cop definitely moves a good 10 feet as seen in the video by using the landmarks in the street and the distance to the parked silver car.
Unsure why the cop opens the car door though. Unsure why the cop did not ask the man to step out of the car. The cop seems to have made the man very scared by opening the door himself. As soon as the cop opens the door the man turns the keys. The cop yells stop stop and tries, from outside the car, to stop the man from driving away by grabbing his shirt collar with his left hand, getting himself partially caught inside a now moving vehicle, he seems to also be taking out the gun, shoots the man approximately at the same moment he says stop the second time, releases his hold on the man, falls to the ground after having been moving with the car for about 10 feet.
I am unclear by the viewing as exactly whether the accelerator was ever pressed, the car must have left park at some point, the car clearly continues to roll via being out of neutral. It is unclear whether the car started moving before or after the shooting took place, though it seems likely before.
The man tried to escape/evade the police officer with his vehicle after the cop tried to open the car door.
The cop may in his defense point out that the man was trying to escape in his car. But that is not a good enough reason for a shot to the head. That is not good enough for self-defense. Being pulled alongside the car was the cop's doing, not the man's doing.
Unsure why the cop opens the car door though. Unsure why the cop did not ask the man to step out of the car. The cop seems to have made the man very scared by opening the door himself. As soon as the cop opens the door the man turns the keys. The cop yells stop stop and tries, from outside the car, to stop the man from driving away by grabbing his shirt collar with his left hand, getting himself partially caught inside a now moving vehicle, he seems to also be taking out the gun, shoots the man approximately at the same moment he says stop the second time, releases his hold on the man, falls to the ground after having been moving with the car for about 10 feet.
I am unclear by the viewing as exactly whether the accelerator was ever pressed, the car must have left park at some point, the car clearly continues to roll via being out of neutral. It is unclear whether the car started moving before or after the shooting took place, though it seems likely before.
The man tried to escape/evade the police officer with his vehicle after the cop tried to open the car door.
The cop may in his defense point out that the man was trying to escape in his car. But that is not a good enough reason for a shot to the head. That is not good enough for self-defense. Being pulled alongside the car was the cop's doing, not the man's doing.
3
"The only way that could have happen"
Good grief.
Good grief.
1
You forgot to mention your credentials as an expert analyst. You know, more qualified than the Guardian's analyst, than the State Attorney, the Police Chief, etc. Maybe you were an eye witness, but too modest to divulge that little piece of information . Or just may be your name is Perry Mason?
1
Read in the Guardian [http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/30/samuel-dubose-video-polic...] about how, right after the murder, two other of Cincinnati's finest began lying to corroborate Tensing's false account. Chance of any significant disciplinary action against these corrupt thugs? Zero.
29
You mean University of Cincinnati's finest....Cincinnati PD has no part in Tensing's lies.
Years ago police had .38 caliber revolvers; now they have much greater killing weapons, and ammunition better designed to kill also. What this suggests is that police are expected to kill. So if one is ornery, not cooperative, lacks appropriate humility, lacks respect for the officer with the gun, then there is good reason to expect to be killed. It is good policing or at least policing that has had little challenge, perhaps until now and more likely not even to now. This topic is not a media crusade, just a media momentary occasion.
6
Did I watch the same video as everyone else? The officer seemed calm cool and collective. He had a split second to either back away when victim turned ignition or try and reach for the keys to turn the car off. He made the wrong decision which put his life in jeopardy at which point I see no reason not to use lethal force. So to be clear I think he should of retreated to his patrol car and initiated pursuit (which always puts more people in harms way) but that was his mistake everything else that happened was a consequence of that.
15
The reason not to use lethal force is quite clear -- with no justification (such as self defense, or trying to stop someone who has committed a serious crime) the use of such force is illegal.
4
So are you saying that he was reasonably correct in his decision to shoot this man in the head? I just want to understand your comment and see if I'm reading it wrong, because if that is what you are saying, your illogical thinking is why we have incidents like this.
It looks like Dubose was shot because he pulled the door shut and started the car to flee the scene instead of complying. When this happens an officer cannot tell what is going on and will automatically draw a weapon in self defense. Once that weapon is drawn, it can go off. It appears that the officer might have been affected by the auto going into motion while he had his hand on it, but It is not clear whether the shaking of the camera represents anything but the officer running after the automobile. The video did show that Dubose was acting evasively to the Officer's questions, indicated that he was not retaining the thread of the conversation and then acted in an aggressive manner in order to flee without any indication of why he was doing so. The fact that the video might not confirm the details as related by the officer does not really clarify what the Officer's intentions were when Dubose was shot -- he may be hiding his motives, or a mistake, or just was confused. It's a big problem to resolve, so taking it to court is reasonable, but Mr. Deter's assertions are not established facts but his opinions.
18
Fleeing is not an aggressive action - quite the reverse.
1
Self defense? Is this some big time criminal that needed to be shot in the head?
1
Doesn't obsolve the officer of responsibility. He guessed wrong and will hopefully do a lot of years.
New law needed: Anyone carrying a gun should be required to wear a body camera.
17
'Violence and lawlessnes will not be tolerated' ? What a double standard in a countey where violence and lawlessness by the police is systemic against black people. This apeal now rings very hollow and hypocrital.
15
You are never in danger from a person running from you. Never, even if you are a cowardly cop with a gun.
49
True, but beside the point. A cop's job is not simply to protect himself, but to protect others. A guy acting suspiciously, who can't explain where his license is, or who owns the car, who is driving with a bottle of gin on the floor, and who suddenly speeds away from a traffic stop, is quite reasonably considered a danger to others.
2
You dont have your facts straight. The driver was driving not running and yes a moving vehicle presents a danger to an officer when he/she is conducting a stop.
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, OK?” he said. “This might happen in Afghanistan. People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
Except that it's been happening with alarming regularity here in the United States. What I want to know is why is it only the last 12 months or so that these incidents are making national news.
Except that it's been happening with alarming regularity here in the United States. What I want to know is why is it only the last 12 months or so that these incidents are making national news.
25
" What I want to know is why is it only the last 12 months or so that these incidents are making national news."
Because Black people got tired of being killed by police (and vigilantes like Zimmerman) over trivialities and started marching in the streets. Then they burned some buildings. That appears to be the only way to get white America's attention.
Because Black people got tired of being killed by police (and vigilantes like Zimmerman) over trivialities and started marching in the streets. Then they burned some buildings. That appears to be the only way to get white America's attention.
4
I come from a family of cops and NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM can understand why this college cop had a gun but more importantly, why in heavens name he would fire at a car speeding AWAY from him. This individual was in no danger so why draw the weapon and fire upon an unarmed and innocent motorist?
I never cry when reading a NYT article, but upon viewing the video and reading the article, I could not stop tearing up. I do not know how anyone could sleep after watching that video clip. There are not enough prayers and no words to comfort or console the family of that young man.
Thank God for cameras and thank God for the indictment.
103
Your comment is very inspiring. Thank you for making sense unlike a lot of the other readers on this post.
I agree, but it is not accurate to claim that Debose was speeding away.
University police are EXACTLY the same as regular city police. Coming from a cop family you should know that.
The only difference is they are distinguished to focus on the area of the University. They have equal or more training, the same authority and responsibilities.
The only difference is they are distinguished to focus on the area of the University. They have equal or more training, the same authority and responsibilities.
Denise in San Francisco, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the officer should have just let him drive away, especially if he suspected he had been drinking.
Yes, the driver displayed some erratic behavior, and seemed a bit confused. And yes, he absolutely was totally wrong to not obey the officer when was asked to step out of the car; and he should never have put the key in the ignition, start the car and begin the action of driving off. From the video it is unclear how the officer ended up on the ground. But what is very clear is that in the moments before the shooting, there is no justification for the officer to have his gun out, and fire it, fatally or otherwise.
I am a mostly law abiding citizen--I sometimes go over the speed limit by 5 miles only on 55 mph interstates. I've never feared having something like this happen to me simply because I've never done anything more than speed by a few miles. But these recent incidents have made me very afraid of being pulled over, even just for speeding. But they might make me slow down, out of fear for my life at the hands of police.
Yes, the driver displayed some erratic behavior, and seemed a bit confused. And yes, he absolutely was totally wrong to not obey the officer when was asked to step out of the car; and he should never have put the key in the ignition, start the car and begin the action of driving off. From the video it is unclear how the officer ended up on the ground. But what is very clear is that in the moments before the shooting, there is no justification for the officer to have his gun out, and fire it, fatally or otherwise.
I am a mostly law abiding citizen--I sometimes go over the speed limit by 5 miles only on 55 mph interstates. I've never feared having something like this happen to me simply because I've never done anything more than speed by a few miles. But these recent incidents have made me very afraid of being pulled over, even just for speeding. But they might make me slow down, out of fear for my life at the hands of police.
18
Jesus, for the 100th time...HE WAS NOT DRINKING! IT WAS NOT ALCOHOL IN THAT BOTTLE. It was scented oil. The video CLEARLY shows Tensing ask him about it and then snell it. Gin is clear...the contents in that bottle was not clear, but Amber in color.
"..I don't think anyone here is suggesting that the officer should have just let him drive away..."
FYI: The prosecutor said the cop should have just let him go instead of shooting him. It's in the article and the video of the prosecutor news conference. And I agree with him --just let the guy go, it's not a killing offence.
FYI: The prosecutor said the cop should have just let him go instead of shooting him. It's in the article and the video of the prosecutor news conference. And I agree with him --just let the guy go, it's not a killing offence.
I am tired of this being a black and white thing; NO AMERICAN at all should be being pulled over and treated in this way.
39
I agree with your comment, however, it is unfortunately a b/w thing because white males can get away with spitting, cursing out, and sometimes kicking officers during traffic stops. But a black man can hope to get away with his life after being stopped. I'm a black woman and I don't do anything too crazy to break the law; I do speed, but I'm a tad bit afraid and wary of being pulled over by a cop who's had a bad day and I'd be the unlucky person he takes his anger out on. IJS.
4
Um, it's a black thing because this doesn't happen to white people. They get a whopper and a ride to jail.
I watched the frame-by-frame playing of the tape on the evening news. It's hard for me to interpret it. If the officer doesn't plead guilty to a lesser charge and the case is tried, the prosecution and the defense will almost certainly have videotape experts testify about what it shows. That testimony will probably conflict. So I don't see this as a case that is guaranteed to result in a murder conviction. The outcome could be a conviction of involuntary manslaughter, i.e., criminally negligent homicide, or an acquittal.
Remember, too, that the district attorney is a prosecutor. Leaving aside the questions others have raised here about the propriety of his remarks, his insistence that this is a murder should be viewed in light of his role. We understand that a defense attorney may be posturing when she insists that her client isn't guilty. We should have no different an attitude toward prosecutorial remarks uttered for public consumption.
Remember, too, that the district attorney is a prosecutor. Leaving aside the questions others have raised here about the propriety of his remarks, his insistence that this is a murder should be viewed in light of his role. We understand that a defense attorney may be posturing when she insists that her client isn't guilty. We should have no different an attitude toward prosecutorial remarks uttered for public consumption.
11
Prosecutors are duty bound to have an abiding belief that the accused is guilty.
1
@Lawyer/DJ — Yes, that's true; otherwise it would be unethical for them to bring charges. But if I were the prosecutor here, I would simply state, and calmly, "As the law requires of us before we bring charges, we believe there is probable cause that Officer Tensing committed ________ under Ohio law," stop there, and walk away from the media scrum.
Stating (if the district attorney did) “This office has probably reviewed 100 police shootings, and this is the first time we’ve thought, ‘This is without question a murder,’ ” strikes me as unprofessional and possibly unethical. In California, if a prosecutor said this to a seated jury it would be misconduct, because a prosecutor is not allowed to "vouch" (that's the term of art) for a defendant's guilt in this manner to a trier of fact.
At a minimum, the district attorney has provided the defense with ample hope of winning a change of venue motion, on the ground that he's tainted prospective jurors in Hamilton County.
Stating (if the district attorney did) “This office has probably reviewed 100 police shootings, and this is the first time we’ve thought, ‘This is without question a murder,’ ” strikes me as unprofessional and possibly unethical. In California, if a prosecutor said this to a seated jury it would be misconduct, because a prosecutor is not allowed to "vouch" (that's the term of art) for a defendant's guilt in this manner to a trier of fact.
At a minimum, the district attorney has provided the defense with ample hope of winning a change of venue motion, on the ground that he's tainted prospective jurors in Hamilton County.
1
The biggest problem was that a campus police officer was off of the campus stopping someone for a traffic offense. Why he decided to make a traffic stop not on university property is totally absurd. The rest, as Joe Deters said, was asinine. I am totally disaster that my alma mater had such a person on their campus police force.
20
Asinine doesn't really rise to the level of proportionate description of an execution, in my opinion. Asinine is when one has made a mistake, been a jerk, mucked up a situation, etc. This is murder. Murder is never simply asinine.
Guess the university police needs a gun in case he is shot at makes sense to me. No reason to shoot, but it does appear the policeman is being dragged from what I saw. My thought is he may have seen the gentleman drinking when he pulled him over. In that case it would be just to stop him so no one is hurt. Can a toxicology report be done to determine the blood alcohol level of the deceased? Wonder if he has priors on drinking and driving that would have caused him to fleed and not want to be identified by license, or plate. Just asking logical questions the prosecutor should be asking as well, I believe. The prosecutor wants to protect the city and the officer from riots at this point likely.
4
This short video leaves a lot of room for the cop top be justified, however the more complete video on other sites clearly shows that the cop pulled his weapon and aimed it at the victim without cause. And remaining calm after the fact repeating that he was dragged which might have occurred for a second, but only after the shooting.
8
Cops need better training and clear rules for how to handle non-threatening back talk.
They seem to get so worked up so fast!
They hate to be challenged and, in fairness, typically they should not be. One should cooperate.
With all the recent examples of poor police reaction and the deadly consequences, we have real world examples of what not to do if one is an officer. Set up a better training regimen.
Meanwhile to all cops I have some simple advice - it's OK to back off a bit!
Relax!!
They seem to get so worked up so fast!
They hate to be challenged and, in fairness, typically they should not be. One should cooperate.
With all the recent examples of poor police reaction and the deadly consequences, we have real world examples of what not to do if one is an officer. Set up a better training regimen.
Meanwhile to all cops I have some simple advice - it's OK to back off a bit!
Relax!!
25
Most of the comments here are naive. Here’s an educated analysis. 1. The officer acted professionally from the beginning of the traffic stop. He had every right to pull over a vehicle missing a tag. 2. The driver obfuscated about having his driver’s license on him. 3. He had an opened bottle of gin right at his feet. The video cannot depict odors, but it is likely the driver was a little tipsy and lacked judgment. 4. Under the circumstances where a driver displays noncooperation, it is correct procedure for an officer to be suspicious of impending foul play and ready his weapon. 5. The officer asked the driver to unbuckle his seat belt; he would have asked him next to get out of the car. 6. There was a tussle that blurred the camera, there is no clear evidence that the officer's arm was grabbed or not. 6 A moving vehicle is a deadly weapon. Assuming the officer is telling the truth, he did the only thing he could do, the instant the driver stepped on that gas holding the officer's left arm, the officer fired at him to let go. 7. It is true that sometimes police cover up for each other. The other officer, already on the scene, stated he saw Officer Tensing being dragged. Why would he invent a cover-up so soon after the incident without a coordination? Furthermore, lending to both officers’ credibility, the camera was rolling the entire time; they couldn’t have known exactly what the recording would show. It is obvious the prosecutor is merely trying to prevent another riot!
28
I think you're the one who's naive since you seem to be willing to give cops the benefit of a doubt no matter what they do. You're grasping for straws here.
17
The bottle is full, and appears to be sealed. It's plainly enough shown that this story of an open bottle is just plain weird unless as an attempt to sell a false narrative to attempt to justify the officer's over-reactions. It also appears that the head-shot precedes the car's lurching forward. As far as why lies would be told re danger to the officer, that can't be hard to figure out. But arguing here is useless; more info (e.g., toxicology reports, forensics on scene, etc.) will certainly be forthcoming.
8
It is obvious that you do not know anything about the law: the Supreme Court ruled long ago that police apprehension by bullet is illegal unless the officer or the public is in danger. The officer was never in danger and neither was the public. If you say the driver was drunk, that was never proven at the scene and last I checked on the spot execution of suspected drunk drivers by the police is illegal or maybe you alone would prefer to live under Judge Dredd and pay the ultimate price for your sins.
5
The article mentions "officer created hazard". What about suspect created hazard?
4
So he had to be shot in the head? Oh, he didn't have his driver's license. I guess that means the cop can shoot you in the head.
It's good to know that it's okay to leave the scene when a policeman has stopped you in your car. I can't tell you the number of times I have stayed in my car when stopped by a policeman and calmly answered the policeman's questions and stayed to receive a ticket.
8
Well Mo, he was likely dead, with a bullet blowing out bits of brain at point blank range when the car started in motion
My humble opinion is extreme emotional distress causing manslaughter. (no intention to cause harm with aggravating circumstances caused by actions of the deceased which brought about the unintended consequences of the shooter.)
4
You mean it's the victim's fault? You pull out a gun and shoot someone in the head and this no intention to cause harm?
Why, on earth, should a security force employed by a university be empowered to make traffic stops? In what way does the absence of a front license plate impact the safety of anyone on the campus? This tragedy stems from a basic overreach by the officer, and I certainly question his motives.
32
he was armed and out on the streets due to the fact the State legislature approved of the law allowing such novices the legal right.
Do you think cops are more honest or truthful than the people they police ? In contrary, because of the lawful brazen vulgarity that assumes that cops tell the truth unless proven otherwise, the cops have all kinds of pre-arranged stories , anytime they kill a civilian wrongfully. These armed to he teeth and trained officers get away with such brazen , asinine vulgarities like 'I feared for my life', when even dealing with unarmed women !
The courts, the law protects the killer cops , only a few , very few get prosecuted.
The courts, the law protects the killer cops , only a few , very few get prosecuted.
21
Perhaps the most dangerous cops on earth are campus cops. At the NYPD where I interned, they are referred to as "toys", consigned to the same category as security guards and Apple security.
One reason that these people are so dangerous is that they are "wannabees" , basically those who cannot meet the standards of a line police officer (whatever you may think of them). Although they are supposed to restrict their activities to the campus that has hired them, they are oftimes cowboys who drive around perimeters of campuses looking to harrass and intimidate citizens who have no connection with their province.
Ray Tensing obviously didn't have the training, demeanor, deportment or courage to be a line officer. His consolation prize was Mr. Dubose's demise.
I agree with the DA that campus police forces are unneeded and IMO deleterious all concerned. Certainly UC's should be dissolved, and also UC Davic, Santa Monica College, and UCLA.
One reason that these people are so dangerous is that they are "wannabees" , basically those who cannot meet the standards of a line police officer (whatever you may think of them). Although they are supposed to restrict their activities to the campus that has hired them, they are oftimes cowboys who drive around perimeters of campuses looking to harrass and intimidate citizens who have no connection with their province.
Ray Tensing obviously didn't have the training, demeanor, deportment or courage to be a line officer. His consolation prize was Mr. Dubose's demise.
I agree with the DA that campus police forces are unneeded and IMO deleterious all concerned. Certainly UC's should be dissolved, and also UC Davic, Santa Monica College, and UCLA.
22
Any data to support your claims about campus police? Your comments are pretty vicious so I assume you are credibly able to support those comments.
These are my opinionsThat's what IMO means, in case you don't know.
1
yep- "toys" as in toy cops, a name used even back in the early 1970's when i was a kid.
2
People get shot during traffic stops. They are incarcerated for failing to signal. they are beaten to death while being arrested. They are arrested for walking in Central Park too late at night, for jumping a turnstile on the subway when late for class. There are thoughtful, effective cops, but in order to be a cop, one must be exceptional all the time, thoughtful, wise, and always even headed. There is no room for 98%. This is so because we, as a society, all them to carry weapons amidst the unarmed, and because of this, police officers who carry weapons must be of the highest caliber. I wonder if that is always the case. Maybe one of the reasons there is such a strong negative reaction to the Cecil the Lion tragedy is because there are many who, too, feel the potential to be hunted while defenseless, and lured into an out of control situation.
26
agree with GP's comments below. Cops deal with dangerous dudes every day, of every color, by the thouands across the U.S. Let's keep it in perspective...looks like a hot-head cop whe deserves what's coming to him, but don't oversimplify it as part of a pattern of white-on-black violence. It'll sell papers for the for-profit NYT, but does a disserve to an objective understanding of what happened and alleged motives.
1
I have no proof for what I have to say here. Anybody reading this is going to say I am nuts but I have to get this out.
I think there are racist cops who are enervated by the idea of a black President and they are taking it out on black motorists. In their psyche, it is bad enough they have to put up with a black President but they are not going to put up with some average black person.
I think there are racist cops who are enervated by the idea of a black President and they are taking it out on black motorists. In their psyche, it is bad enough they have to put up with a black President but they are not going to put up with some average black person.
13
I sort of agree with your sentiment but "enervated" is not really the right word. And I'm sure there are plenty of police with the attitude you suggest. But most of the police that I know are too professional to show it even if that's the way they feel. Properly trained police in this country are supposed to be able to deal reasonably with all types of abusive and disorderly folks and with people exhibiting mental illness or other bizarre behaviors. That's their job. They're supposed to keep their cool.
This situation just amplifies the need for more cameras to aid in the protection of everyone--whether that everyone is a regular citizen or a police officer.
This situation just amplifies the need for more cameras to aid in the protection of everyone--whether that everyone is a regular citizen or a police officer.
1
Right. Once Obama is no longer President, this kind of stuff will no longer happen (just like it didn't happen before he was President).
I agree with this decision.
1
The specifics of this tragic case apart, the several latest cases of police shootings only confirm that HIRED GUNS are poorly trained in:
1. The handling of firearms
2. Self-control
3. Awareness of their duty to protect the public, but not to shoot first and ask questions later.
1. The handling of firearms
2. Self-control
3. Awareness of their duty to protect the public, but not to shoot first and ask questions later.
9
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop."
Yes, they do get shot. They are also end up dead after walking down the middle of the road in broad daylight (stoned or not), selling loose cigarettes, fighting off a vigilante who accosts them while they are walking home with a bag of Skittles, running away (unarmed) from an officer after a traffic stop, reaching into a glove compartment for license and registration, or refusing an (unlawful) command to put out a cigarette.
Driving While Black turns out to be not the only killing offense that African-Americans must avoid: Breathing While Black can be lethal as well.
It does happen in the USA, and has been happening for 250 years. The digital age may be finally forcing to see what we really are.
Sympathies to Mr. Deter's family, particularly his mom and 10 children. When will this end?
Yes, they do get shot. They are also end up dead after walking down the middle of the road in broad daylight (stoned or not), selling loose cigarettes, fighting off a vigilante who accosts them while they are walking home with a bag of Skittles, running away (unarmed) from an officer after a traffic stop, reaching into a glove compartment for license and registration, or refusing an (unlawful) command to put out a cigarette.
Driving While Black turns out to be not the only killing offense that African-Americans must avoid: Breathing While Black can be lethal as well.
It does happen in the USA, and has been happening for 250 years. The digital age may be finally forcing to see what we really are.
Sympathies to Mr. Deter's family, particularly his mom and 10 children. When will this end?
249
Well said
I doubt Mr. Deters has 10 children.
1
Re: RCT, New York, NY
I agree with everything you said except that it has been happening for 250 years.
It has actually been happening for 396 years, with the first recorded African indentured servants brought to Jamestown, Virginia in August 1619.
I agree with everything you said except that it has been happening for 250 years.
It has actually been happening for 396 years, with the first recorded African indentured servants brought to Jamestown, Virginia in August 1619.
I'm a high school teacher. In my position of authority over 14 - 19, sometimes 21-year olds, often much taller than me, I must give directives, commands even. Sometimes I have to say a forceful, "sit down please," or, "please wait your turn," or "you can't go to the bathroom until Suzy gets back."
In over a decade of teaching, you can bet I've had many uncooperative, disrespectful, outright hostile students. Now, in my position of authority, if I body slammed a kid, or put him in a chokehold, or simply got 'in his face' and shouted--and a classmate of his caught me on video, how many out there would respond the kid should have just submitted, obeyed, cooperated...how many would say teachers don't put students in chokeholds, body slams, without reason?
In over a decade of teaching, you can bet I've had many uncooperative, disrespectful, outright hostile students. Now, in my position of authority, if I body slammed a kid, or put him in a chokehold, or simply got 'in his face' and shouted--and a classmate of his caught me on video, how many out there would respond the kid should have just submitted, obeyed, cooperated...how many would say teachers don't put students in chokeholds, body slams, without reason?
25
It is beyond me why a University officer was making a traffic stop for a license plate. Seems like a revenue generating fishing endeavor if there ever was one. A university cop's main duty should be to ensure the safety of all people on the campus and a front license plate does not fall into that job description.
https://www.facebook.com/theothersideofthestorypage
https://www.facebook.com/theothersideofthestorypage
11
In my hometown, when a driver is stopped, there is no asking if he owns the car. The registration and driver's license are immediately requested. This fellow was stopped because of a missing license plate. I didn't hear a valid registration request, which identifies the owner no matter who's driving the vehicle. He didn't have his license on him, required in every state. The bottle of liquor in the front seat added to the tension. But when he drove away, where can he go? His rear license plate gets called in, and the police will show up at his door. big trouble and no one dead. If the vehicle were being driven at the officer, there is likely justification for firing. But driving away? Again, where would he really escape to?
13
"His rear license plate gets called in, and the police will show up at his door."
Please THINK.
He won't show his driver's license - which is extraordinary, most people carry their license with them at all times and it's a legal requirement in every jurisdiction on the planet to have your license with you while driving.
That already creates a suspicion that the car isn't his.
Then he tries to flee the scene in the car. Who's going to do that if the cop can ID them from their license plate?
Conclusion: the driver is either drunk or stoned (in which case, an immediate danger to the public) or else the car is stolen.
Of course we don't know; but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on the driver being drunk AND the car being stolen.
Please THINK.
He won't show his driver's license - which is extraordinary, most people carry their license with them at all times and it's a legal requirement in every jurisdiction on the planet to have your license with you while driving.
That already creates a suspicion that the car isn't his.
Then he tries to flee the scene in the car. Who's going to do that if the cop can ID them from their license plate?
Conclusion: the driver is either drunk or stoned (in which case, an immediate danger to the public) or else the car is stolen.
Of course we don't know; but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on the driver being drunk AND the car being stolen.
It appeared to me that Officer Tensing used extreme measure that's gravely inappropriate for the situation. As to whether race is involved in this incidence, the clue can probably be found in Officer Tensing's track record. The video alone, captured by his body camera, did not seem to indicate that race was indeed a factor contributing to his use of fatal force. On a side note, the lethal weapons should only be reserved for wars that are to defend peace and freedom, police work that intend to capture violent and dangerous criminals, and for recreational hunting in remote hunting grounds. Other than those, nobody should have guns, as it's unnecessary, and does more harm than good. Yesterday evening, when I walked along a pedestrian road next to city park, a car from incoming traffic slowed down and approached the curb, and the teenage driver, along with the front-seat passenger, two absolute strangers to me, did a finger gun pointing at me and said "boom", and then drove off joyfully. I was very disturbed, not by the prank but by the sick ideas in their mind.
6
Personally, I'm really sick of these kinds of situations involving racial controversy. Yes, I understand that it was a murder, so I mourn the death, but I just feel that there have been too many of these kinds of incidents lately. I actually do believe that this particular officer did purposefully shoot the victim. The situation did not require use of a weapon. Maybe the officer was mentally unstable, or something like that. Said shooting could have been caused by personal feelings, depression, or just a small bit of insanity. But don't quote me on that, because it is just my personal opinion.
2
problem is, this does happen in America. And all the more frequently these days too.
4
I had just finished reading Ta-Nehisi Coates' 'Between the World and Me' when I learned of this shooting and indictment. This passage from the book well reflects the culpabilities of us all in murders such as this: 'The truth is that the police reflect America in all of its will and fear, and whatever we might make of this country's criminal justice policy, it cannot be said that it was imposed by a repressive minority. The abuses that have followed from these policies — the sprawling carceral state, the random detention of black people, the torture of suspects — are the product of democratic will. And so to challenge the police is to challenge the American people who send them into the ghettos armed with the same self-generated fears that compelled the people who think they are white to flee the cities and into the Dream. The problem with the police is not that they are fascist pigs but that our country is ruled by majoritarian pigs.'
12
The police officer pulled out
his gun in a hurry and shot.
Per the camera footage, he
does not appear to be in any
danger. It is not apparent that
Mr. Dubose did not seem like
he was about to take off in the
car as usually seen in other
videos showing pulled over
drivers ultimately shot gunning
it for an escape attempt.
Very badly trained police officer
where it matters; not shooting
people in the head on a whim.
Police officers are public servants,
and they do a crucial service for
this country. Although, just like
a marine might light up a group
of school kids spitting at him, this
officer clearly abused his authority.
He must be held accountable.
If the country needs to be reminded
that the scrutiny to kill black men,
should be equal for that of any other
human that is killed by a police officer,
than so be it. Imagine your life being
snatched from you for such a thing
as we see here? Your dead, your gone,
your family will never see or hear from
you again. Your whole life, just a memory.
his gun in a hurry and shot.
Per the camera footage, he
does not appear to be in any
danger. It is not apparent that
Mr. Dubose did not seem like
he was about to take off in the
car as usually seen in other
videos showing pulled over
drivers ultimately shot gunning
it for an escape attempt.
Very badly trained police officer
where it matters; not shooting
people in the head on a whim.
Police officers are public servants,
and they do a crucial service for
this country. Although, just like
a marine might light up a group
of school kids spitting at him, this
officer clearly abused his authority.
He must be held accountable.
If the country needs to be reminded
that the scrutiny to kill black men,
should be equal for that of any other
human that is killed by a police officer,
than so be it. Imagine your life being
snatched from you for such a thing
as we see here? Your dead, your gone,
your family will never see or hear from
you again. Your whole life, just a memory.
3
This must be a bad dream. I'm going to wake up soon. Aren't I? Please tell me it's just a bad dream.
4
Disagree with Mr. Deters on the value of sworn officers employed by a University. Firstly, university police who are sworn offivers (like the U of Cinci ones) are held to the same standards and training as non-university officers. They are police.
The solution is not to question the value of police on a campus versus city policy. The solution is to retrain all police to de-escalate all situations and avoid use of lethal force unless they are being threatened with lethal force in a situation they cannot de-escalate.
If anything, I've seen sworn officers on a university campus (university police), de-escalate and attempt to de-escalate situations because the actually have MORE training to work with young adults and have a good relationship with university administration who can (in the case of alcohol misused for example) chaperone a student for an hour or so at a football game until they are sober and no longer a public nuisance rather than what a city police officer might do in the same situation - arrest the person and cart them off to jail to sober up - unnecessarily. The student then gets a nice chat with administrators and health educators later on how to drink responsibly and how their actions affect others.
Tensing sounds like he did not have the appropriate temperament for a police officer of any entity nor even for a security officer. That's a similar mistake the Cleveland police department made when they hired the officer who most recently killed.
The solution is not to question the value of police on a campus versus city policy. The solution is to retrain all police to de-escalate all situations and avoid use of lethal force unless they are being threatened with lethal force in a situation they cannot de-escalate.
If anything, I've seen sworn officers on a university campus (university police), de-escalate and attempt to de-escalate situations because the actually have MORE training to work with young adults and have a good relationship with university administration who can (in the case of alcohol misused for example) chaperone a student for an hour or so at a football game until they are sober and no longer a public nuisance rather than what a city police officer might do in the same situation - arrest the person and cart them off to jail to sober up - unnecessarily. The student then gets a nice chat with administrators and health educators later on how to drink responsibly and how their actions affect others.
Tensing sounds like he did not have the appropriate temperament for a police officer of any entity nor even for a security officer. That's a similar mistake the Cleveland police department made when they hired the officer who most recently killed.
41
How do you "retrain" a murderer?? Do you not understand something as simple as DO NOT SHOOT UNARMED, NON-HOSTILE CITIZENS?? It does not take a lot of training to understand that. This is NOT about training. This is about something a lot more ominous.
2
There has been always a gray area around the U.C. campus with two police districts bordering the campus and campus police also driving around in cars I would have been reluctant to follow directions from a campus police officer, blocks from the campus, and I'm a white, 60 years old lady, who lives 1 block from the U.C. campus. I know I will make sure I have my license on me even if I am moving my car out of the driveway into the street.
The issue at hand, to me, is why so many of these officers feel they
"need to get their man" anyway they can, even over trivialities. Tase, pepper spray, chokeholds and bullets.
"need to get their man" anyway they can, even over trivialities. Tase, pepper spray, chokeholds and bullets.
13
Do you want to see a steep decline of incidences of police killing innocent and/or unarmed citizens? The answer is pretty simple: respect for the rule of law applied equally to all and without prejudice.
Video cameras are important (as we've seen in this incident), and proper training of police officer is also important, but in reality their effectiveness as a deterrent of incidences of abuse of power pale in comparison with the respect for the rule of law.
The problem we've seen when it comes to abuse of power is that increasingly we have become a two-tiered justice nation, where Wall Street banksters can steal trillions of dollars and walk away without consequences, and where (some) police officers can execute people extra-judicially, and illegally, without suffering any real serious consequences.
That leads to the issue of moral hazard, where those who commit these abuse of power crimes will continue to do so more brazenly if there are no real consequences to their actions.
Just apply the law, equally, to all... That's the way it's supposed to be, ain't it?
Video cameras are important (as we've seen in this incident), and proper training of police officer is also important, but in reality their effectiveness as a deterrent of incidences of abuse of power pale in comparison with the respect for the rule of law.
The problem we've seen when it comes to abuse of power is that increasingly we have become a two-tiered justice nation, where Wall Street banksters can steal trillions of dollars and walk away without consequences, and where (some) police officers can execute people extra-judicially, and illegally, without suffering any real serious consequences.
That leads to the issue of moral hazard, where those who commit these abuse of power crimes will continue to do so more brazenly if there are no real consequences to their actions.
Just apply the law, equally, to all... That's the way it's supposed to be, ain't it?
11
In the video, DuBose seems to be hiding something. Tennis seemed very cordial until DuBose sped away after being unable to answer simple questions and refusing to get out of the car.
If this were on campus, one would have to ask why a dazed, inarticulate guy like that was there to begin with.
If this were on campus, one would have to ask why a dazed, inarticulate guy like that was there to begin with.
5
Your point?
2
How does any or all of that (even if it were all accurate, which it apparently is not) justify use of deadly force?
4
Your facts are all wrong, the shot when off before the car took off and the only ONLY reason the care moved was because Mr. Dubose was shot in head. One is not able to control ones self after being shot in the head.
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
The opposite is the case. And, people are being wrongly arrested, shot, and incarcerated for a whole host of things, not just a traffic stop.
Mr. Deters should take another look at the United States.
The opposite is the case. And, people are being wrongly arrested, shot, and incarcerated for a whole host of things, not just a traffic stop.
Mr. Deters should take another look at the United States.
13
Indictments mean nothing...what's needed are CONVICTIONS.
Only then will justice be served.
Only then will justice be served.
11
Absolutely. Why do we even bother with trials and juries? Just send the accused directly to jail and pocket the savings!
What truly aggravates me is that this happens far too much. The fact that black people are limited in what they can do because of the constant terror of police brutality and never making it back home disgusts me. People may deny that racism has anything to do with it, but they need to look at the evidence. If you replace victims of police brutality with whites, and put the white people in their situation, the police wouldn’t have killed them, 99% likely. I have no clue how many times this has to happen, how many more innocent people have to die before people open their eyes and realize that this is a real thing that’s all too common of an occurrence. In the article, it states, “‘People want to believe that Mr. Dubose had done something violent toward the officer,’ Mr. Deters said. ‘He did not. He did not at all.’” In a lot of these cases, the victims are peaceful, and do not have any intentions to hurt the officer, but are killed anyway. This is cruel, this is unjust, and it needs to be stopped. Police brutality needs to end, before more people die.
13
Mr Deters, this does certainly happen in the United States, quite often. The amazing thing is how rarely it is punished.
13
"People don't get shot for a traffic stop." Are you kidding me? If I was a black person I'd be terrified at the thought of being pulled over by any kind of cop. In this country, the police are totally out of control towards African American men and women, boys and girls. Who is hiring these people??
14
This murder is disgusting and he evidence shows cold blooded murder.However, lumping all these incidents together is so unfair to the policemen involved. Let's remember how many policemen died on 9/11 saving lives , My brother was one of them. For every evil cop there are ten great ones. The same goes for black people and white people which is why all stereotyping is so wrong.
5
Full Disclosure I am black and I spent a short time as a police officer.
I've watched this video at least 10 times. I've seen a lot of other videos and I could see what was obviously horrible policing and incomprehensible responses for example Tamir Rice or Eric Garner.
But this? I just don't see that. He was pulled over for not having a plate, he's got a container of alcohol, he has no license and then refuses to get out of the car which considering the alcohol was a lawful order and he begins to struggle with the officer, then he turns on his engine and starts to drive away.
Reckless endangerment? Maybe? But Murder? Either this jury was crazy or I am.
I've watched this video at least 10 times. I've seen a lot of other videos and I could see what was obviously horrible policing and incomprehensible responses for example Tamir Rice or Eric Garner.
But this? I just don't see that. He was pulled over for not having a plate, he's got a container of alcohol, he has no license and then refuses to get out of the car which considering the alcohol was a lawful order and he begins to struggle with the officer, then he turns on his engine and starts to drive away.
Reckless endangerment? Maybe? But Murder? Either this jury was crazy or I am.
12
So all of the above being true warrants being shot in the head?
4
An unopened bottle of undrunk liquor is not a reason for being ordered out of your car.
It is you who is crazy.
What bothers me most is how brazenly Officer Tensing and the unnamed "third officer" lied. Almost everyone knows polices officers lie. They lie to protect themselves and their colleagues. I once had a police officer lie to my face while under oath. But this episode reveals undeniable, smoking-gun evidence of lying laid bare for the world to see.
How many officers are lying everyday in our own communities to protect their own hides? It's time we had a public discussion about honesty in law enforcement and how it perverts our criminal justice system, our communities, and our collective faith in government.
How many officers are lying everyday in our own communities to protect their own hides? It's time we had a public discussion about honesty in law enforcement and how it perverts our criminal justice system, our communities, and our collective faith in government.
23
It's time the public have more oversight of their police force.
4
Tragic on SO many levels, for the families of the cop, the victim and for all of society. We need BETTER screening and training of police so that the hot heads are weeded out and/or put into positions where they're not in direct contact with people with whom this tragic and violent outcome is likely to be repeated.
5
I do see that the police officer was being dragged in the beginning.
The guy car turned his car back on and was leaving.
The guy car turned his car back on and was leaving.
5
He was never dragged he fell backward. Please rewatch the video, the officer misinterpreted the situation the man started his car and before anything else happen he was shot in the head. The office again was NEVER dragged, he lied about it in the report and so did two other officers.
My thoughts are with Congress and Loretta Lynch, ACLU and the rest of the DOJ. With each death by Law enforcement that shouldn't have been, each death that is in a cell that is questionable, each death that surprisingly happens in the back of a squad car while suspect is cuffed we get a trickle of action and each time I say maybe this time they will listen. Each time it's followed already by a new cell death in this case two Native Americans and another black woman.
What this country (Americans) want to see are serious reforms. Unions hold, extort, make a mockery of life and the above watch and throw their softball punches. It has become clear "we have to work together" means we can't walk on anybody's toes. I say yes you can, yes you can if you're in the right. Hey we're dying how many more martyrs do you need. Gov. Cuomo is the only one who's said no to the unions and the DA's. He's declared that all deaths where police were a participant are instantly taken out of locals hands, including the DA's. Now that's doing something Madam AG Loretta Lynch.
What this country (Americans) want to see are serious reforms. Unions hold, extort, make a mockery of life and the above watch and throw their softball punches. It has become clear "we have to work together" means we can't walk on anybody's toes. I say yes you can, yes you can if you're in the right. Hey we're dying how many more martyrs do you need. Gov. Cuomo is the only one who's said no to the unions and the DA's. He's declared that all deaths where police were a participant are instantly taken out of locals hands, including the DA's. Now that's doing something Madam AG Loretta Lynch.
6
Although it will not bring the victim back, at least this killing was caught on videotape AND recognized by the prosecutor to be a murder.
It is mindboggling sad to think of all of the countless others who were executed in years past and went to their graves while their killers in blue still walked free.
It is mindboggling sad to think of all of the countless others who were executed in years past and went to their graves while their killers in blue still walked free.
15
a camera was the witness.
a taser might have helped.
bullets can never be taken back.
a taser might have helped.
bullets can never be taken back.
4
That video brought tears to my eyes.
3
Despicable and senseless period! The US JUSTICE DEPARTMENT must get involved immediately for: Civil Rights Violation. With the rash of police shootings across the US of Unarmed African- Americans this garbage has got to come to a halt. Too many police officers who plain and simply should not be in a uniform. Society is sick and tired of racially motivated shootings by police officers who " Rush to judgement" especially when it comes to " men/ women of color"!!!!!!
6
And then another one, so were does it stop? Carrying no license or having no valid license is a bullet to the head
9
What a tragedy for his family. I hadn't heard of this event before. At least there was video, so the family doesn't have to live with the further tragedy of having their loved one's good name trampled on. Rest in peace, Mr Dubose.
8
If you're black, avoiding being shot is simple. Just don't:
1. Drive
2. Walk
3. Go to church
4. Shop at a convenience store
5. Play in a park
6. Go anywhere near a white neighborhood
7. Wear a hoodie
8. Act "uppity"
I mean, we gotta have boundaries, right?
1. Drive
2. Walk
3. Go to church
4. Shop at a convenience store
5. Play in a park
6. Go anywhere near a white neighborhood
7. Wear a hoodie
8. Act "uppity"
I mean, we gotta have boundaries, right?
58
Much, much. much greater chance of being shot doing these things by another black person than a white police officer. Big problems never get solved unless you acknowledge they exist, and black on black crime is a much bigger problem than the police.
2
Actually, the list could be a lot shorter. Don't:
1. Drive away from a cop at high speed after refusing to answer questions about your license and driving around with a bottle of gin on the floor of your car.
1. Drive away from a cop at high speed after refusing to answer questions about your license and driving around with a bottle of gin on the floor of your car.
How about obey the law, obey the officer request?
So, having a missing front license plate is punishable by death. Unbelievable.
15
It seems as if not a week goes by when.... another, and another, and another.
16
There is no way Mr DuBose deserved to be shot in the head. That said, as a driver who had been stopped by a cop, he broke ALL the rules. When the cop asked for his license, he handed the cop a bottle of GIN? Don't play games with cops, period. Secondly, Samuel DuBose's hands never ever stopped moving making him unpredictable (which he in fact WAS), and he came off as semi-coherent. People like this put cops on HIGH ALERT.
However, the officer was not justified in pulling out his gun especially with the intention of shooting to kill.
More than ever there needs to be different methods for managing people who fail to cooperate with law enforcement.
However, the officer was not justified in pulling out his gun especially with the intention of shooting to kill.
More than ever there needs to be different methods for managing people who fail to cooperate with law enforcement.
2
I watched the video again and it sounds like the cop was asking Dubose what the bottle was on the floor of the car, so he gave him the gin.
4
Did you read article in addition to watching video? The officer asks him about the bottle on the floor and then that is when the victim hands it over.
2
You are projecting your personal feelings and not facts. It wasn't alcohol. Tensing asked him what was in the bottle. He didn't just hand him the "alcohol" that was stated in Tensing's report and initially reported by the media, which is clearly disputed by the video. Watch the video again.
1st I've been a police officers for over 20years and typically university police do not make traffic stops outside their jurisdiction. This is not a negative comment regarding campus police officers but usually their are 3 kind. Those who have retired after 25 or 30 years with a metropolitan police department who are looking for a less work. Then those who are young and looking to gain some experience before working for a typical police department. And then those who are not able to get a job with a metropolitan police department. This is a fact I bet all the tea in china that this goofball probably couldn't get hired by a metro department. He was probably so gunho he probably had police lights in his personal vehicle with a police scanner listening all the time. In defense of what i say all new green officers who come out the academy are gun ho. This guy had absolutely ZERO reason to shoot and kill that driver especially for a traffic violation. Hopefully all new recruits learn from all the recent shootings. REMEMBER EVERYONE HAS A CAMERA NOW!!!
13
Thank God for these cameras because clearly the cops lie the heads off. Of course, they are further protected well after the incidents by the system of prosecutors, and judges, and police unions, who mainly want to perpetuate the bureaucracy.
The exception, is this fellow Joe Deters who clearly has a semblance fairness and outrage that most citizens share about this. This guy Deters is the "hero" in this story, and we need a lot more compassionate people just like him.
As for Mr. Campus Cop with a gun, well you got to finally use it didn't you? You are a monster.
The exception, is this fellow Joe Deters who clearly has a semblance fairness and outrage that most citizens share about this. This guy Deters is the "hero" in this story, and we need a lot more compassionate people just like him.
As for Mr. Campus Cop with a gun, well you got to finally use it didn't you? You are a monster.
9
“Looking at Officer Tensing’s uniform, I could see that the back of his pants and shirt looked as if it had been dragged over a rough surface,” Officer Weibel wrote.
So what'll happen to Weibel?
So what'll happen to Weibel?
10
Absolutely, let him go. He does not have a front licence plate, let him go. These cowboy cops need to be taught a lesson. Clearly murder 1.
11
I can see that Mr. DuBose started the car with his right hand after the officer requested that he remove his seat belt. Does this really require the officer to raise his weapon and shoot? It is not obvious from the video his life was in imminent danger.
5
So when is one of these cops who kills going to go to jail? (IMO at least some people who are allowed to be policemen should not be.. In fact, there are many abusive "public" servants (usually with good jobs and tenure)and including bus drivers and teachers. ) Tenure should not be part of public jobs. Abuse should never be tolerated. )
Like the crooked Wall Streeters and bankers who also do great social harm, police and public servants with tenure tend to get free passes.. and many of us want to know WHY??
Like the crooked Wall Streeters and bankers who also do great social harm, police and public servants with tenure tend to get free passes.. and many of us want to know WHY??
4
A frightened armed man... perhaps the worst danger humanity has ever faced.
9
@JaayEmm. My "courtesy uncle", who was a police captain, told me when I was very young that there were 3 actions one could initiate that could very easily result in dire consequences--frightening a coward was number 2 on the list. Number 1: insinuating yourself into a domestic dispute. Number 3: stealing from a poor person.
1
Violence is as American as apple pie. It's part of our DNA. We're a nation that glorifies war. Over the course of my lifetime, we've been at war constantly. Our corporate media gushes over "shock and awe" laid on a country that was the unfortunate target of "bad intelligence". You can't watch a Superbowl without the obligatory flyover of warplanes. Obviously, if you give someone a gun and a license to kill in this country -- and he knows his chances of ever being caught, much less prosecuted, are minimal -- this is what you get.
11
The officer had the man's name, his car license and video from his body cam. Even if DuBose drove away, why would Tensing even consider pulling his gun? Oh, I forgot, he was black.
19
I am fortunate enough to be white. Based on what I see in this case, however, it makes me shutter at the risks of "jaywalking while black" on the University of Cincinnati. What happens? If I am lucky, a pistol whipping? If I am not, a bullet to the head?
8
Lynching is back in effect in America.
And like someone else said, what is up with a university cop pulling someone over for a license plate violation?
What is the protocol for someone not getting out of a car? It can't be shoot to kill. And why would he have to get out anyway? This is because the driver was a Black man.
Lynching has returned to America. Or has it ever left? I remember what happened to Eleanor Bumpers back in the 80s.
And like someone else said, what is up with a university cop pulling someone over for a license plate violation?
What is the protocol for someone not getting out of a car? It can't be shoot to kill. And why would he have to get out anyway? This is because the driver was a Black man.
Lynching has returned to America. Or has it ever left? I remember what happened to Eleanor Bumpers back in the 80s.
13
The main problem of the modern police, they shoot first and only then start to think. This behavior is not acceptable in today's society. I don't want to live in a country where you can kill people who are supposed to protect you. On the streets of America ceased to be secure....and the reason not only in bandits....
8
I, a Hispanic who was not born in this country, would think that this is a righteous shooting regardless of the race of the officer or the person shot.
1
Why is an ill-trained campus cop stopping people not on university property?
10
Can you say out-of-control? Police State?
The police, many of whom are returning veterans from combat zones, are essential taught to 'control with violence'.
It is just wrong.
The police, many of whom are returning veterans from combat zones, are essential taught to 'control with violence'.
It is just wrong.
10
This was an absolutely awful event.
However, Joseph T. Deters sounds a bit to pumped up and ambitious for me.
Is he possibly thinking of running for some other higher office and seeking some free publicity?
However, Joseph T. Deters sounds a bit to pumped up and ambitious for me.
Is he possibly thinking of running for some other higher office and seeking some free publicity?
3
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.” Really?
They just have the car taken with abused Civil Forfeiture laws.
They just have the car taken with abused Civil Forfeiture laws.
7
What IS IT,about seemingly innocuous traffic stops of African Americans by white policeman that keeps resulting in their violent deaths?These incidents have occurred in such frequent intervals,as to seem almost planned.I know that's not the case,but apparently erroneous assumptions about these encounters,now must withstand the scrutiny of body and dash cams.It's about time.
7
Wow he shot the fellow before the car moved.
10
Mr. Deters, the prosecutor, is guilty of flagrantly unethical conduct. His comments on the case are nothing short of scandalous. As a fellow prosecutor, I can't help but hope that he is soundly disciplined. The rule in Ohio is this:
RULE 3.6: TRIAL PUBLICITY
(a) A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.
Not even close. Comments about a senseless, asinine shooting that is without question a murder, and the comment that it followed a chicken-crap stop are obviously materially prejudicial. Everything good that Mr. Deters has done is compromised by these statements. Whether they are so inflammatory that a fair trial is not possible is a legitimate question.
Mr. Deters is without question senseless and asinine and has made chicken crap comments unbecoming a prosecutor.
RULE 3.6: TRIAL PUBLICITY
(a) A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter.
Not even close. Comments about a senseless, asinine shooting that is without question a murder, and the comment that it followed a chicken-crap stop are obviously materially prejudicial. Everything good that Mr. Deters has done is compromised by these statements. Whether they are so inflammatory that a fair trial is not possible is a legitimate question.
Mr. Deters is without question senseless and asinine and has made chicken crap comments unbecoming a prosecutor.
10
Do you really think Joe cares what another "prosecutor" hiding behind a keyboard thinks? He's well respected and has done a great job here in Cincinnati. Kudos to him for a job VERY well done!
Perhaps it is deliberate, Ray has a friend.
Why do universities have police who are in the same age group as their students? That just seems like a bad dynamic, a recipe for trouble, why not hire retired city cops?
7
I just don't understand this. I can't wrap a thought around it. How does this happen. What are we becoming as a society?
8
How about police guns fitted with a camera?
6
I live in the outside of Cincy but I work next to UC. I know the area well. When the murder of Sam Dubose occurred, a lot of my coworkers and friends who know the area were very disturbed just based on WHERE he was shot. None of us realized that UC could patrol in that area, being so far south of the campus. This didn't occur 2 or 3 blocks away, but more than a mile from the campus.
There seems to be some inconsistencies in the article, or at least the reading comprehension of those posting responses to it. Dubose was stopped for not having a front plate. Even when he produced the plate, Tensing kept on about his license. He said to "run my name" many times but Tensing kept on, tried to pull the door open, then he shot him in the head. Dubose didn't struggle, but I imagine he was scared to death and knew (Tensing now had his weapon drawn/pointed in Dubose's face) what was about to happen.
What would YOU do? Dubose didn't drive off, he didn't accelerate. He had BOTH HANDS UP when he was shot in the head. The car accelerated AFTER he was shot. Tensing fell when he discharged his weapon, maybe from the recoil. Dubose did not cause Tensing to fall. He was not dragged, etc. Those were LIES from his report.
I suggest anyone who wants to see the best copy to view the one on 700 WLW's site. They have a clear copy & they slow it down the moment Dubose is shot.
There seems to be some inconsistencies in the article, or at least the reading comprehension of those posting responses to it. Dubose was stopped for not having a front plate. Even when he produced the plate, Tensing kept on about his license. He said to "run my name" many times but Tensing kept on, tried to pull the door open, then he shot him in the head. Dubose didn't struggle, but I imagine he was scared to death and knew (Tensing now had his weapon drawn/pointed in Dubose's face) what was about to happen.
What would YOU do? Dubose didn't drive off, he didn't accelerate. He had BOTH HANDS UP when he was shot in the head. The car accelerated AFTER he was shot. Tensing fell when he discharged his weapon, maybe from the recoil. Dubose did not cause Tensing to fall. He was not dragged, etc. Those were LIES from his report.
I suggest anyone who wants to see the best copy to view the one on 700 WLW's site. They have a clear copy & they slow it down the moment Dubose is shot.
48
I agree. He CLEARLY had his hands up and the car was not moving when he was shot. The slow motion video on http://www.700wlw.com/articles/local-news-119585/video-ray-tensings-body... shows this.
1
The New York Times, among other media outlets, seems to point out any officer involved shooting or confrontation in racial terms whenever possible. While it is an element of the story it is can also inflammatory and prejudicial. The Times should leave out race as a primary lead in its headlines because not all things are black or white.
2
Just like the media seems to point out that anyone the commits a crime is black
Sadly, Mr. DuBose seems to be a genuine martyr. Sandra Bland and Michael Brown? Not.
1
Sandra Bland was definetely a Martyr. And if I was black I wouldn't get out of the car with angry armed cop who is going to throw me down and slam my head on the ground just because you think I'm a uppity woman!
We can't pre-judge police officers because of the murderous few who do this (imagine how cops across the country feel when they see this). Just like we can't pre-judge Muslims by the murderous few who commit terror.
2
Who could blame this driver from fleeing? He couldn't find his license? No doubt he was afraid he would end up dead in a jail cell in three days.
And for all those "blame the victim" Bill O'Reilly types, please spare us. We know that you are perfect and nothing should or would happen to perfect people.
And for all those "blame the victim" Bill O'Reilly types, please spare us. We know that you are perfect and nothing should or would happen to perfect people.
9
Ohio and Cincinnati in particular have a dismal legacy of slavery and racial hatred. Although Ohio abolished slavery in 1802, the state barred free blacks from entering the state. When John Randolph of Virginia freed 518 slaves, an Ohio congressman declared “the banks of the Ohio would be lined with men with muskets on their shoulders to keep off the emancipated slaves." In 1807, Ohio passed Black Laws that required any black entering the state to post a prohibitive $500 bond guaranteeing good behavior. Cincinnati authorities gave its black resident 30 days to comply or leave the city. Residents of the city’s “Little Africa” neighborhood asked for more time, but a white lynch mob prowled the neighborhood killing and beating blacks and burning their homes. About 2,200 of the city’s blacks fled to Canada. Ohio citizens at first objected to educating blacks from public funds, fearing it would cause black to settle in the state, so blacks were forced to attend private schools established for black children, but segregation wasn’t enough to stop the racial violence. White mobs attacked and destroyed black schools in Zanesville in 1837 and Troy in 1840. Today, most Ohioans think Jim Crow was only a Southern thing.
6
Wait a minute---Texas is calling us racist??? Cincinnati is not perfect, but it's certainly not a hotbed of racial hatred. It had a large underground railroad before and during the Civil War, designed to move slaves coming over from the south to places further north. Were there bigots, then and now? Of course - the same as other cities. But as a native and long-time resident, I can safely say that most Cincinnatians relish the diversity of our city and are as horrified as anyone else at the action of this one police officer. Please don't blame this on Ohio.
And Cincinnati, Ohio, remains today just as racist and discriminatory against its non-white citizens as enormous swaths of the "great state" of Texas.
I would have thought recent events indicated - keep your cool, do what they ask (even, yes, if that's just putting out a cigarette.) And most of all, whatever you do, don't run/drive off for surely more than anything that says you are guilty of (something). Sad, stupid, loss of a life.
2
He didn't drive off..he was shot in the head and the car moved because he had his foot on the break....
2
Will there be indictments or punishment for the lying officers who backed up Tensing's lying dragged-by-car story? Time to tear the blue wall down.
11
I think we need to seriously look at the qualifications of campus cops. Here in Ohio they have the same authority as municipal cops but I wonder about their training and competence. The other problem with campus cops is that if they work for a private college, they claim their business is not part of the "public record" like that of regular cops. A small local college (Otterbein if you are interested) established its own police force a year or two ago and claims its records aren't public. Sounds like a good way to keep information about rapes and other campus crimes secret.
8
The officer may very well be in the wrong. The video doesn't look good for him. However, all the readers had to hear was that it was a white officer and a black man and we just immediately knew it was the officer's fault. Now who is stereo typing who? Who needs facts when you can just rush to judgment?
2
The D.A. said in his press conference that thi is the worst case of police misconduct he has seen in his 30 years on the job, and the the shooter should never have been a cop in the first place.
Thats good enough for me.
Thats good enough for me.
1
Who's judging whom? I for one don't rush to judgement. The man has been indicted for murder. I watched the video. I await the trial and the reforms in police officer training and conduct that some of our finest clearly need to ensure the safety of our entire community.
1
Video cameras "...offering disturbing evidence of the confrontations that often contradicts the accounts of people involved..."
The account of Samuel Dubose (if it could be heard) is in full agreement with the video camera recording. It is Officer Tensing, who killed a citizen for a minor infraction, who "contradicts" the video recording.
The account of Samuel Dubose (if it could be heard) is in full agreement with the video camera recording. It is Officer Tensing, who killed a citizen for a minor infraction, who "contradicts" the video recording.
5
If this officer is wrong, that means anyone pulled over for a petty crime can just refuse to give their license to a police officer and slowly drive away.
Then when serious criminals gets pulled over, they can also refuse to give their license and drive away. If you are the victim of a crime, don't expect the police to stop anyone. Just let them drive away slowly.
Then when serious criminals gets pulled over, they can also refuse to give their license and drive away. If you are the victim of a crime, don't expect the police to stop anyone. Just let them drive away slowly.
1
How about the police don't let people drive away and simultaneously avoid shooting them in the head at the first sign of non-compliance. What do the police do if they catch someone speeding, but they refuse to pull over? Do they:
A) Pursue the vehicle, blockade it, and apprehend the driver, subduing them non-lethally if necessary.
OR
B) Shoot the driver in the head.
A) Pursue the vehicle, blockade it, and apprehend the driver, subduing them non-lethally if necessary.
OR
B) Shoot the driver in the head.
1
Police shouldn't have gun on them.
Access to guns, yes; but they don't need gun to do policing.
Today's technology means we can trace "bad people" almost back to their home; why can't we delay apprehension if apprehension is needed ?
Access to guns, yes; but they don't need gun to do policing.
Today's technology means we can trace "bad people" almost back to their home; why can't we delay apprehension if apprehension is needed ?
4
Are you for real? What about all of the mass shootings; would you rather no cop in the vicinity have the ability to kill a shooter in action?
the tape shows the guy starting the car and driving into the officer while pulling away to flee. the car is a weapon. he didn't care if the cop was run over or not.
If Dubose had complied he wld be alive and that is true of Gardner and the young man in Ferguson. But they shld not be killed for what they did.
This is getting out of hand.
Unless police are prosecuted, it will not end.
This is getting out of hand.
Unless police are prosecuted, it will not end.
3
Why was a University policeman trying enforce license regulations?
Why didn't he call a city policeman?
Additional officers would have brought more experience, capability and cameras to the scene -- if needed.
Why didn't he call a city policeman?
Additional officers would have brought more experience, capability and cameras to the scene -- if needed.
4
We have created a society where issues are now routinely resoved at the end of a barrel. This is the world the NRA and their exremist views have given birth to. The solution to every threat is more guns. This cowboy mentality has infected the police culture of our country. Now every routine traffic stop that could have been deescalated has the potential to turn into the killing of an innocent citizen in a hail of bullets.
9
The murder of Samuel Dubose - another traffic stop that escalated into "God only knows what" between a law-abiding black driver and an unprofessional and psychologically unfit white cop, occurred only 5 days after Sandra Bland died in a Texas jail.
I agree with other commenters that this is likely a common occurrence and we are only learning of these instances because of body cameras and civilians with cell phones who film these altercations. In the past, the word of police officers and their compatriots was enough to excuse these terrible acts.
We should abandon our current criminal justice system and training of police and start over.
Once again, Jesus wept.
I agree with other commenters that this is likely a common occurrence and we are only learning of these instances because of body cameras and civilians with cell phones who film these altercations. In the past, the word of police officers and their compatriots was enough to excuse these terrible acts.
We should abandon our current criminal justice system and training of police and start over.
Once again, Jesus wept.
6
I'm not sure what you mean by "law-abiding". If he didn't have a front license plate and the law required one, he was not "law-abiding". Also, it is law in every state that a driver must carry his license on his person. This driver didn't seem to be. Also not "law-abiding". Obviously the officer never should have drawn his weapon, but let's not distort the plain facts beyond recognition in order to make our arguments. Distortion certainly isn't necessary here.
If you are a black person (literally) in the sights of a white cop you have every reason to fear for your life. Even if the media portrayal is one-sided it affects how people are going to judge their chances of coming out alive from the encounter. After watching the videos of the cops in NYC turning their backs on the mayor I have even less trust in their honesty, judgement, and ability to conduct themselves in a professional manner than I had before. Since I lived in a large city for quite a while I already had witnessed enough to be wary (I am white).
Cops lie. And judges always believe their lies unless there is incontrovertible evidence of those lies. This needs to stop.
We need law enforcement who actually obey the laws and conduct themselves impartially, professionally, and honestly. We need fewer loose screws behind the overabundance of guns, and I am not talking about mental illness.
Cops lie. And judges always believe their lies unless there is incontrovertible evidence of those lies. This needs to stop.
We need law enforcement who actually obey the laws and conduct themselves impartially, professionally, and honestly. We need fewer loose screws behind the overabundance of guns, and I am not talking about mental illness.
10
"I feared for my life" - - the catchphrase cops are taught to use which justifies anything they do, or any force they use. Look at this cop, he's a kid. He has no business being a police officer. And when did a university police force take on the role of regular police? back in the day the cop on the beat was the neighborhood go-to person. yeah, there were bad ones but now so many cops are just plain power hungry and looking for any excuse to show how tough they can be. and it's not just the men. the women cops who display this type of behavior are just as bad. it's no wonder that the general public fear cops. it's no longer the era of "the policeman is your pal." now it's watch where you walk, what you say, and who you are. and if you don't bow, beg and grovel when stopped well heaven help you. and even if you do those things, heaven help you. i'm glad these things are coming to light but when lawyers can say this is only happening because of the political and public sentiment towards these types of actions, it really just means one thing. Opps, we got caught.
7
The real problem is a lot of white cops simply do not take black persons right to life that seriously. If you are a black person, they approach your car with a SICK CONFIDENCE that they can kill you for any trivial reason and get away with it. Take this sick confidence away, and policing suddenly becomes unappealing to a lot of racist white cops, opening up space to minority candidates, and successfully diversifying the police force.
7
I have read a few comments that have made very disparaging remarks about Mr. Dubose and his family, some of which focus on the fact that he had 10 children. Such people should be aware that Mr. Dubose's family members have conducted themselves with considerable grace during the last week. They have been steadfast in calling for justice for the man they describe as gentle and caring, but they have also just as consistently called for calm and peace, not violence or rioting. They did not want violence to mar his memory or legacy.
47
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
I hate to disagree Sir, but from my (admittedly quite distant) viewpoint, it seems highly likely that if you are a minority in the US you are very likely to be shot/subject to a lethal chokehold etc for very minor brushes with the law.
Where I black, and visiting the US, I'd be frankly quite terrified of your Police to be honest - even though I'm sure it's a tiny minority.
I hate to disagree Sir, but from my (admittedly quite distant) viewpoint, it seems highly likely that if you are a minority in the US you are very likely to be shot/subject to a lethal chokehold etc for very minor brushes with the law.
Where I black, and visiting the US, I'd be frankly quite terrified of your Police to be honest - even though I'm sure it's a tiny minority.
10
I'd recommend visiting Canada. They seem much more civilized there
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
It does if you have a dark skin. Let us count the times.
It does if you have a dark skin. Let us count the times.
5
Mr Duboze restarts his car and tries to flee. What should be police response in such a situation? High speed chase through residential neighborhood? Shrug and forget about it?
I don't think shooting in the head is a way to respond if someone is pulling away from you either
1
A bullet in the head ?
1
I'm black here's a recent exchange I had with my husband who is white. "Hey the insurance card I have in my car expired can you print out a new one?" He says "Well just use the expired one until I can get you a new one." I say "Do you really want me to get tasered or shot in front of our daughter cause I have an expired insurance card?" He stops thinks and says good point and immediately prints one for me.
This should not be a conversation couples have. It's scary that both of us realize something really bad could happen to me because I don't have proof of current insurance.
This should not be a conversation couples have. It's scary that both of us realize something really bad could happen to me because I don't have proof of current insurance.
42
And only a couple hundred miles from Kent State.
3
"Mr. Tensing cried when he heard of the indictment."
Ya think?
Ya think?
2
What I don't understand is why do these cops shoot to kill. Shouldn't the goal to shoot to immobilize? And I mean in ANY situation, even if the person being chased is a known terrorist. The hiring and training of policemen in this country needs to be scrutinized.
9
that was a tough video to watch. not only was the traffic stop a petty one Mr. Dubose's bottle of gin doesn't even appear to be opened. When Mr. Dubose could not find his driver's license on his person requested that the officer look up his driver's license info on the patrol car computer. Officer Tensing exercised extremely poor decision making abilities.
note to self don't leave home without your "papers" or else "passport control agents" will give you a hard time.
note to self don't leave home without your "papers" or else "passport control agents" will give you a hard time.
9
Officer appears very calm and civil all the way through, repeatedly trying to get the guy to answer the question of whether he has a license on him. And then he even sees that the guy has an (open?) bottle of gin on the floor. Up to this point, all seems good. Then when video gets shaky, it's hard to tell what really happens...but what does seem very clear from what I see...or don't see...is that there was no good reason for the cop to pull his gun. Unless the car was driving towards him (which clearly it was not), why would the cop think his own life was in danger? And the video doesn't seem to indicate he was dragged at any point...the video seems to be capturing the viewpoint of a standing man (the cop) while he's running after the car...
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
3
Sadness. Sadness followed by extreme anger. This was killing was unnecessary - another life lost for reasons we'll never understand.
4
Guns, power, stupidity.
Understand?
Understand?
1
This certainly appears to be a very serious crime committed by the police officer, possibly murder.
But I expect that this shooting is going to attract less outrage and less NYT coverage than the non-fatal arrest of Sandra Bland.
1) there is a male victim, so less sympathy from a persistently sexist public that values women's bodies, and right of non-infringement thereupon, more highly than men's.
2) no "deep south" angle to exploit for an electoral advantage.
3) no ambiguous details to froth over in a tabloid conspiracy.
I may be wrong, of course, and I hope this case receives the same or greater scrutiny and outcry. But it seems like the coverage of these events is more driven by populist identitiy politics than by the actual severity of the harm inflicted. If you don't capture the liberal, female demographic plurality, your life just isn't as important.
But I expect that this shooting is going to attract less outrage and less NYT coverage than the non-fatal arrest of Sandra Bland.
1) there is a male victim, so less sympathy from a persistently sexist public that values women's bodies, and right of non-infringement thereupon, more highly than men's.
2) no "deep south" angle to exploit for an electoral advantage.
3) no ambiguous details to froth over in a tabloid conspiracy.
I may be wrong, of course, and I hope this case receives the same or greater scrutiny and outcry. But it seems like the coverage of these events is more driven by populist identitiy politics than by the actual severity of the harm inflicted. If you don't capture the liberal, female demographic plurality, your life just isn't as important.
1
Obviously, you want to beat your favorite political drums with this. But I'd suggest that if there's less outrage, it's because appropriate charges are being brought in this case.
2
These are hardly my favorite drums. They have a harsh tone I find unpleasant. But sometimes when everyone is banging the same tired beat, it helps to have a little rhythmic counterpoint.
And appropriate charges were filed in both cases, so it's a moot point.
And appropriate charges were filed in both cases, so it's a moot point.
Not all African-Americans see these confrontations between African-Americans who are marginal members of society and the police the same way as the so-called "civil rights leaders".
Last week I was walking through a park in New Jersey on a beautiful Saturday morning and passed by group of African-American men gathered around a large charcoal grill. As I passed by the group I heard one man say to the others: "That n---er in South Carolina should have known better than to run from that cop. In the South what did he think was going to happen?"
Last week I was walking through a park in New Jersey on a beautiful Saturday morning and passed by group of African-American men gathered around a large charcoal grill. As I passed by the group I heard one man say to the others: "That n---er in South Carolina should have known better than to run from that cop. In the South what did he think was going to happen?"
Not sure of your point. Seems the gentleman at the barbeque stated a fact, not condensing the man th SC for running.
Send him away for life. Also, may this be yet another lesson to protect the police by maintaining video-cams (it is protection, if they are doing their job – and guarantees their guilt if they abuse their authority). Most cops are the good guys. As we have seen, some of them need to be disciplined. To the fullest extent of the law they are sworn to uphold.
1
'She and other family members said that if it were not for the body camera worn by Officer Tensing, his story would have been accepted, and he would have gone unpunished.'
Exactly. Cops in the USA, and here in Oz, have been murdering non-cops, covering up for each other, and getting away with it for years. What's different today? Cheap, small, video cameras.
Exactly. Cops in the USA, and here in Oz, have been murdering non-cops, covering up for each other, and getting away with it for years. What's different today? Cheap, small, video cameras.
4
Too many guns, people say.
Well too many cops with guns. The most heavily policed so-called democratic society.
Too many keystone cops with guns. for sure
And this was not even on the school's property. No authority of the cop.
Well too many cops with guns. The most heavily policed so-called democratic society.
Too many keystone cops with guns. for sure
And this was not even on the school's property. No authority of the cop.
2
The common thread I see with almost all of these unjustified murders is that the police officer gets extremely angry when someone does not obey their commands, resists arrest or runs away.
Police departments should incorporate psychological testing into their hiring process so they can screen out angry, stressed, easily provoked people and look instead to hire aspiring officers who are calm under pressure are secure with themselves and more altruistic than aggressive.
That would go a long way towards solving the problem.
Police departments should incorporate psychological testing into their hiring process so they can screen out angry, stressed, easily provoked people and look instead to hire aspiring officers who are calm under pressure are secure with themselves and more altruistic than aggressive.
That would go a long way towards solving the problem.
9
I agree. Police officers should be reliably skilled at both calm interpersonal diplomacy and moment's-notice reaction to danger or violence, so that they're ready no matter which is called for in each situation. If it's too difficult to staff a full department with such people, I suggest having "designated defusers" who would be called in as backup the moment an officer feels unsure of his/her ability to be the calm diplomat. It would require an assurance of no harm to the officer's reputation or standing in the department. That means that this officer (and the one who stopped Sandra Bland) would have returned to their cars the moment they felt their steam valve starting to blow and called for assistance. It would entail a longer wait for the civilian but the outcome might be worth it.
Of course, this officer's steam valve might have blown before he even got out of his car the first time. Sometimes I wonder about the mechanistic, almost extreme politeness that seems to characterize the early parts of these videos. Is that typical of police-civilian interactions or is it a sign of a pendulum that's about to swing to the other side?
Of course, this officer's steam valve might have blown before he even got out of his car the first time. Sometimes I wonder about the mechanistic, almost extreme politeness that seems to characterize the early parts of these videos. Is that typical of police-civilian interactions or is it a sign of a pendulum that's about to swing to the other side?
1
How many more? How many more times will we have to watch and listen to the way cops treat their fellow American citizens?
I watched a cold blooded murder today. It made me vomit. I'm tired of the hair splitters, the police guidelines parsers, the letter of the law know-it-alls.
This is the way it works: keep your mouth shut, do exactly what they say, and hope you're not arrested on false charges -- usually resisting arrest -- or killed. For a traffic stop, be it a turn signal, a tail light, speeding, a missing license plate -- unarmed and helpless in the face of the Cop.
Even if you do what a cop says, that's actually no guarantee of your safety, either.
Our cops have turned into brutes, thugs, and resemble a fascist police force. I'm a white middle class suburban "matron" and I'm terrified of them. If I'm scared to death of them, after two traffic stops, I can't bear to think of the fear blacks live with every day.
I listened to Samuel DuBose tell the campus cop he did have a license, it wasn't suspended, and to run a check. A few minutes later he was dead. Dead. And the cops lied. The Motto: Protect and serve ourselves.
White America really better start paying serious attention. Because most of us
believe it can't happen to "us." It happens to "them," black people. Wrong. It happens worse to "them," but whitey, it can, and does, happen to us, too.
I'll end with a piece of advice given to me years ago: Cops don't know the law.
Lawyers do.
I watched a cold blooded murder today. It made me vomit. I'm tired of the hair splitters, the police guidelines parsers, the letter of the law know-it-alls.
This is the way it works: keep your mouth shut, do exactly what they say, and hope you're not arrested on false charges -- usually resisting arrest -- or killed. For a traffic stop, be it a turn signal, a tail light, speeding, a missing license plate -- unarmed and helpless in the face of the Cop.
Even if you do what a cop says, that's actually no guarantee of your safety, either.
Our cops have turned into brutes, thugs, and resemble a fascist police force. I'm a white middle class suburban "matron" and I'm terrified of them. If I'm scared to death of them, after two traffic stops, I can't bear to think of the fear blacks live with every day.
I listened to Samuel DuBose tell the campus cop he did have a license, it wasn't suspended, and to run a check. A few minutes later he was dead. Dead. And the cops lied. The Motto: Protect and serve ourselves.
White America really better start paying serious attention. Because most of us
believe it can't happen to "us." It happens to "them," black people. Wrong. It happens worse to "them," but whitey, it can, and does, happen to us, too.
I'll end with a piece of advice given to me years ago: Cops don't know the law.
Lawyers do.
8
You would think with some much light on police behavior it would give pause to most officers. No matter what is going through an officer’s mind anyone with an iota of common sense would pause before doing what this officer did. After seeing the officer is South Carolina in jail for murder and after the seeing the Baltimore six awaiting trial one would think a thinking man would give pause. A thinking man who loved his career would do everything to preserve his job. The actions of this campus cop should be a wakeup call on the selection of officers. All the training in the world will not fix someone who is incapable of being fixed. Knowing the light of the world is on American policing the officers who can change will the ones who can't change wont. For the ones who can't change the problem is they can't see themselves doing anything wrong. It’s tough to change something that has been accepted behavior for so many years. Police selection must get a sea change. We must give better scrutiny to the people we give the right to take lives under the cloud of protecting us. Our streets are not Dodge City and the old adage of shoot first and ask questions later is no longer acceptable. It is becoming clear that some people should have never been accepted into the ranks of police work.
2
What crossed this officer's mind is beyond me. It's sad to see these stories constantly all over the news. It's sad to see innocent people being shot and killed. It's also sad that if this video wasn't released as evidence that the officer would be free of any such charges. The same type of stories are popping up one by one. It's time for people to get a reality check.
2
There is a need for armed university police officers at large state colleges (which Cincinnati is not), provided that their officers undergo the same training and possess the same authority as state troopers/highway patrol.
The tragic massacre at Virginia Tech a number of years ago was stopped after armed university officers, who were state trained and SWAT trained broke through the chained doors of Norris Hall to compel the gunman to commit suicide promptly (saving lives in the process).
This incident at Cincinnati is clearly a case of wrongful use of force and should be considered homicide by the officer.
The tragic massacre at Virginia Tech a number of years ago was stopped after armed university officers, who were state trained and SWAT trained broke through the chained doors of Norris Hall to compel the gunman to commit suicide promptly (saving lives in the process).
This incident at Cincinnati is clearly a case of wrongful use of force and should be considered homicide by the officer.
3
I realize, AZure28, your first statement is not your main point, but just FYI -- you really ought to fact-check before you submit -- the University of Cincinnati is the second largest school in Ohio's state university system, with an enrollment of some 43,000, compared to Ohio State's 57,000.
This is strange.
I haven't possessed a front plate on my BMW in 3 years of ownership in Cincinnati. Previous German cars never had an issue of never having a front plate. Ever. And I know they all see it.
Odd he would get pulled over.
I haven't possessed a front plate on my BMW in 3 years of ownership in Cincinnati. Previous German cars never had an issue of never having a front plate. Ever. And I know they all see it.
Odd he would get pulled over.
11
Was the traffic stop lawful? It seems to be. Was it necessary? It most certainly seems not to be. Let's face facts: police pull people black people over all the time for small offenses in the hope that they find larger ones.
2
Seems like the prosecutor may be grandstanding here. Without doubt the officer deserves to be charged with a manslaughter charge, but what I see on that video doesn't look like murder. I'd imagine the officer unholstered his weapon because he had a justifiable suspicion that the driver was drunk and behaving unpredictably. Of course, he probably should have asked the driver to exit the vehicle as soon as he found the bottle of gin (which looked sealed, but really, what kind of person drives with a flask of gin right next to them?). The claim that the officer lied about being dragged by the vehicle also seems asinine, as he was clearly knocked over by the car. Did he respond in a reasonable manner? Not by any stretch of the imagination, but the prosecutor is framing this video as though it were similar to the Walter Scott tape.
2
I hope that, in addition to the criminal prosecution and civil damages (surely), there is a revamping of police procedures, a gigantic amount of police training, assignments of police officers to work in pairs so they don't get so crazy, and community oversight of the police so it's not such a closed camp.
3
Cincinnati prosecutors did in 10 days what Cleveland prosecutors have not been able/willing to do in ten months in the killing of a boy on a playground. In both cases, video recordings of these interracial killings (Black victim/White cop) show them to be homicides, clearly not justifiable ones. Yet nothing but roaring silence from the Cleveland prosecutor's office. This is criminal justice, or just criminal?
5
In New York, I believe it's not legal to have an open container (of alcohol) while driving. Could the officer have been concerned this was a drunk driver who might be a danger to others if he continued driving? Especially in the face of lying about about his driver's license (saying he had it but then saying he didn't). The headlines and what the prosecutor said don't tell the whole story, which is more complex. I wouldn't want to be an officer trying to have a potential drunk driver fleeing from me if I had the chance to stop him. I wonder what other officers would have done. I'd like to make the assumption this officer was not aiming for the victim's head to murder him in cold blood on purpose. I wonder if we'll even know.
1
The bottle does not appear to have been opened. Apparently the driver had bought it at a liquor store and was driving to his nearby home.
First, why is a campus police officer armed and what is that officer doing stopping people for traffic offenses not on campus? Second, when did the police get the power to "order" people around? That sounds like the military to me and despite what some people in the country want, it's not quite that way yet. Close, but not quite. Third, if the other officers involved in the incident lied to cover up what happened, are they suspended or better yet indicted? Fourth, I understand that being a police officer is stressful and scary. But that does not give officers the right to summarily execute people on the street. If you have the power of arrest and the gun, then you have the most responsibility.
5
Did you even read the story?
So many on here saying "Just follow the cops orders." Not bad advice, until you wake up and realize many cop's orders are illegal. You're only obliged to follow lawful orders. This particular officer opened the car door. For what reason? Did he state a reason? Did ask to search the car? Was he allowed by law to search the car with our notification of the occupant?
I wrk side by side with officers from three different agencies, in the field, nearly every day I'm at work. I'm one of the few who sees their work on a regular basis and NOT compelled to honor the thin blue line. There different agencies, three different cultures. One agency in particular is full of assholes who denigrate and escalate every chance they get.
Polarization, militarization, isolation. This is what too many cops do. Not all, but enough that some significant change MUST come to how we recruit, train and outfit them.
It's getting old. Why aren't the pro-2nd-amendment types violently rising up against this ongoing tyranny?
I wrk side by side with officers from three different agencies, in the field, nearly every day I'm at work. I'm one of the few who sees their work on a regular basis and NOT compelled to honor the thin blue line. There different agencies, three different cultures. One agency in particular is full of assholes who denigrate and escalate every chance they get.
Polarization, militarization, isolation. This is what too many cops do. Not all, but enough that some significant change MUST come to how we recruit, train and outfit them.
It's getting old. Why aren't the pro-2nd-amendment types violently rising up against this ongoing tyranny?
9
Watching in horror as the Sandra Bland and Samuel DuBose incidents unfold, one would think that in the world these police officers inhabit, the telephone had not yet been invented, let alone the computer. If someone fails to signal, and runs away, they can eventually be found and so advised. If someone is driving without a front license plate, well, they have a back license plate and that plate can be run.
Both these drivers were potentially driving under the influence but the cops did not advise them that that was the reason for the stop. It does not appear that either cop even recognized the potential existence of a driving while impaired situation. If they had, it still would in no way warrant shooting these people (good grief) but in any event, all the cops were officially dealing with were traffic stops.
I recently got a ticket for driving 39 miles an hour in a 25 mile zone. The infraction was caught by a camera, no cop involved. For traffic enforcement, that is the way we have to go. And obviously this society, prodded by this incident and, not insignificantly by recent court decisions, has to move expeditiously away from treating traffic enforcement as a gateway to intruding on every American's perogative to be left alone by the police in the normal course of their life.
Both these drivers were potentially driving under the influence but the cops did not advise them that that was the reason for the stop. It does not appear that either cop even recognized the potential existence of a driving while impaired situation. If they had, it still would in no way warrant shooting these people (good grief) but in any event, all the cops were officially dealing with were traffic stops.
I recently got a ticket for driving 39 miles an hour in a 25 mile zone. The infraction was caught by a camera, no cop involved. For traffic enforcement, that is the way we have to go. And obviously this society, prodded by this incident and, not insignificantly by recent court decisions, has to move expeditiously away from treating traffic enforcement as a gateway to intruding on every American's perogative to be left alone by the police in the normal course of their life.
6
This is only the most recent "law enforcement" lynching. (You needn't be hanged from a tree to be lynched. Illegally shot to death qualifies as well.) Is should not and must not be considered apart from countless "law enforcement" killings of unarmed Black Americans from the East to West Coast and in between. This is a killing-by-killing national contagion and crisis.
13
I am a former Los Angeles police officer. It is not apparent to me why the officer shot Mr. Dubose. It is apparent, however, that the officer was civil and that Mr. Dubose was evasive in his responses to the officer's requests for his license. Had the officer gone to his patrol car to "run" Mr. Dubose's name it seem possible that Mr.Dubose would have driven off.
Given that Mr. Dubose did not produce a license upon request and had an open container of what appears to have been alcohol in his car, the officer acted properly in asking Mr. Dubose to step out of the car. We will never know why Mr. Dubose did not comply, and I doubt that we'll ever a fully acceptable explanation for the shooting. However, I think it is reasonable to say that Mr. Dubose might be alive today if he had simply done what he was asked to do and submitted to being taken into custody, which was likely.
The officer should be fired. Whether he should be convicted of murder I cannot say on the basis of the video. But I will say that people who don't comply with an officer's requests in street meetings of the kind we see in the video simply are not using their heads. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but Mr. Dubose behaved stupidly (or drunkenly). He did not deserve to die for that, but die he did. This video should be shown to all school kids, Black, white, and otherwise, to show why they should do what they're told and let their lawyers argue later rather than argue out in the street.
Given that Mr. Dubose did not produce a license upon request and had an open container of what appears to have been alcohol in his car, the officer acted properly in asking Mr. Dubose to step out of the car. We will never know why Mr. Dubose did not comply, and I doubt that we'll ever a fully acceptable explanation for the shooting. However, I think it is reasonable to say that Mr. Dubose might be alive today if he had simply done what he was asked to do and submitted to being taken into custody, which was likely.
The officer should be fired. Whether he should be convicted of murder I cannot say on the basis of the video. But I will say that people who don't comply with an officer's requests in street meetings of the kind we see in the video simply are not using their heads. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but Mr. Dubose behaved stupidly (or drunkenly). He did not deserve to die for that, but die he did. This video should be shown to all school kids, Black, white, and otherwise, to show why they should do what they're told and let their lawyers argue later rather than argue out in the street.
10
Aren't officers trained to handle situations like this in a manner that doesn't immediately involve pulling a gun and firing? I agree that the subject was uncooperative but it also is apparent the officer panicked and shot. I am a law abiding citizen who has gone from trusting the police completely to fearing I could be killed during a routine traffic stop by a nervous officer.
3
If law enforcement had the legal right to kill all of the people who did not use their heads, then much of the population in this country would be dead, including those who work in law enforcement. I found Officer Tensing's tone borderline hateful, smug, and inciteful.
2
I'm sure that Mr Dubose is not the first person to be "difficult" (as opposed to dangerous) with a cop. But cops should be prepared for "difficult" people and have a set of responses ready. In no just universe would shooting in the head be one of them.
8
The American public has recently seen so many black people killed by white police officers under questionable circumstances. In this event, we see what really happened because of the camera footage and this contradicts what the multiple police officers at the scene reported.
Although most police officers do a very difficult job very professionally, sometimes risking their own lives, I think it's time to admit that what the African Americans in our society have been saying for decades is true. They are pulled over or targeted by some police officers for minor offenses - then harassed, jailed, beaten, or killed by people that should never be police officers in the first place. This is a national tragedy and needs to change.
I think healing and change can only come after a long process of collective listening.
Although most police officers do a very difficult job very professionally, sometimes risking their own lives, I think it's time to admit that what the African Americans in our society have been saying for decades is true. They are pulled over or targeted by some police officers for minor offenses - then harassed, jailed, beaten, or killed by people that should never be police officers in the first place. This is a national tragedy and needs to change.
I think healing and change can only come after a long process of collective listening.
12
"The American public has recently seen so many black people killed by white police officers under questionable circumstances."
That's because the national news media is selective in their coverage. Do a search for Deven Guilford and you'll find an even worse case where a 17yo white boy was murdered by a cop in Michigan. But national media ignored it. You are being directed to believe that this is a racial issue... why? Anti-white propaganda.
That's because the national news media is selective in their coverage. Do a search for Deven Guilford and you'll find an even worse case where a 17yo white boy was murdered by a cop in Michigan. But national media ignored it. You are being directed to believe that this is a racial issue... why? Anti-white propaganda.
The killer campus "law officer" cried upon learning that he had been indicted on a charge of murdering an unarmed Black man whose "crime" was lacking a front license plate. How do I start a collection drive to supply the lethal officer with Kleenex? (Sarcasm alert)
4
No alert necessary, there is not much you write that isn't. In fact, you are the cutting edge of sarcasm for Black offender empowerment as any.
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
Apparently it does happen in the United States.
Apparently it does happen in the United States.
5
What a shame! Many 25 year olds lack the skills to defuse conflict, and to make good judgements. The police force that hired this "kid" and gave him a gun is just as responsible as he is. They both used really bad judgement!
We need to rethink what we ask of our police officers, and who we ask to be officers.
We need to rethink what we ask of our police officers, and who we ask to be officers.
11
What I see in this video is not murder but stupidity. The driver is being mostly casual and cooperative, but also a bit obtuse in not admitting that he doesn't have his license with him. The officer appears calm but a bit frustrated. Then, a sudden motion by the driver seems to surprise the officer, who panics like a child and shoots without thinking. It's the instant jump to panic that is incomprehensible. If you're not smart enough to restrain yourself in this situation, then how can you be trusted to react competently in the face of real danger? This man should never have been a cop.
4
There is simply no justification for a lame traffic stop to end in a killing of this sort. Perhaps it is time we consider taking the guns away from the police.
3
While there are all too many cases like this, keep in mind that traffic stops are also dangerous for cops. More than half of all shootings of police occur during traffic stops. As long as guns are in the hands of millions of private citizens, disarming cops is very dangerous for them.
1
And there was not a gun except in the Campus cops hand. You have said you are a prosecutor.....would your bias prevent you from charging the cop?
Thank goodness for body cams and eyewitnesses armed with smartphones. We are finally seeing the extent of what most likely has been happening far too often for far too many years.
13
Agreed. Imagine the countless numbers of innocent people that have been killed unlawfully in the past. Tragic
1
I know this may be an asinine opinion, but whatever happened to following a police officers simple request? This is a tragedy, but Mr Dubose was drinking, had no license, and missing his front plate. Then he attempts to flee the officer. All illegal! If he had simply cooperated with the officer, no issue. Seems pretty clear.
8
What we see in videos of white cops killing unarmed black men is the cop asking the suspect to do something (e.g.,show your license), and the suspect doesn't cooperate. The cop gets inpatient, and the situation escalates into a confrontation. Then *something* happens - the guy runs, or starts the engine - and the cop reaches for his gun and fires.
You could say there are two problems: 1) lack of cooperation from the suspect, and 2) overreaction by the cop. Unfortunately 1 leads to 2, which leads to deadly force.
Perhaps many of these suspects turned victims would be alive if they had cooperated. We read and hear how black parents teach their black children to cooperate when stopped by a cop.
Unfortunately, not everyone cooperates. Often, the suspect-victim becomes angry at being stopped, maybe yells at the cop, irritates the cop. The suspect-victim may not be "right in the mind," unable to respond in the respectful, subservient way cops demand.
The question is, who is responsible for a minor situation turning deadly? Who should take steps - e.g., training - to prevent these unnecessary shootings?
Clearly it's the cops. Cops have guns, and along with the right to carry a gun is the responsibility to know when to use deadly force. Cops need to know how to deal with uncooperative people, how to defuse the situation, how to control their emotions.
Being a cop is a difficult job. We need better cops, better training, and fewer cops committing murder.
You could say there are two problems: 1) lack of cooperation from the suspect, and 2) overreaction by the cop. Unfortunately 1 leads to 2, which leads to deadly force.
Perhaps many of these suspects turned victims would be alive if they had cooperated. We read and hear how black parents teach their black children to cooperate when stopped by a cop.
Unfortunately, not everyone cooperates. Often, the suspect-victim becomes angry at being stopped, maybe yells at the cop, irritates the cop. The suspect-victim may not be "right in the mind," unable to respond in the respectful, subservient way cops demand.
The question is, who is responsible for a minor situation turning deadly? Who should take steps - e.g., training - to prevent these unnecessary shootings?
Clearly it's the cops. Cops have guns, and along with the right to carry a gun is the responsibility to know when to use deadly force. Cops need to know how to deal with uncooperative people, how to defuse the situation, how to control their emotions.
Being a cop is a difficult job. We need better cops, better training, and fewer cops committing murder.
6
I just read this article and watched the video. And I can honestly say, if I was on a grand jury right now I don't know if I would indict. Definitely not on a murder charge. The murder charge is reactionary and politically motivated.
The first thought I had was the officer must have been terrified. The second was, he probably didn't mean to shoot Samuel Debose in the head; he likely drew his gun quickly as possible and shot out of fear of being run over.
That's when I got to my third thought: the fear. The fear that every officer must have when they are in a situation that, based on statistics and experience, tells them "something may very well happen to you here". Whether a rookie or veteran.
That's when I had the briefest inkling of how difficult this job can be.
I wonder if we citizens---in our zeal for "better" police officers, and in our grief and anger over white officers needlessly killing African-American citizens during the most routine interactions---are simply asking too much of our men and women in blue? Again, I only ask. Are there legions of cops who've read seen this and cried out, "What the hell was Tensing thinking?" Or are they silently and solemnly thinking among themselves, "I may have done likewise"?
I ask because I do not personally know any cops. I don't know what the job's like, and I doubt I ever will. But I do know, after watching this video, I am grateful I am not a cop.
Both the Debose and Tensing families have my deepest sympathy.
The first thought I had was the officer must have been terrified. The second was, he probably didn't mean to shoot Samuel Debose in the head; he likely drew his gun quickly as possible and shot out of fear of being run over.
That's when I got to my third thought: the fear. The fear that every officer must have when they are in a situation that, based on statistics and experience, tells them "something may very well happen to you here". Whether a rookie or veteran.
That's when I had the briefest inkling of how difficult this job can be.
I wonder if we citizens---in our zeal for "better" police officers, and in our grief and anger over white officers needlessly killing African-American citizens during the most routine interactions---are simply asking too much of our men and women in blue? Again, I only ask. Are there legions of cops who've read seen this and cried out, "What the hell was Tensing thinking?" Or are they silently and solemnly thinking among themselves, "I may have done likewise"?
I ask because I do not personally know any cops. I don't know what the job's like, and I doubt I ever will. But I do know, after watching this video, I am grateful I am not a cop.
Both the Debose and Tensing families have my deepest sympathy.
9
Probably everyone can remember doing something truly stupid and thanked God it didn't lead to tragedy. My prayers to both families.
But I am glad there was a video, as is everyone.
But I am glad there was a video, as is everyone.
How about the terror and pain of his victim?
1
these so-called traffic stops have become a way for cities to make money because they are cash-strapped; the cops have become like highwaymen on the roads in feudal Europe, thieves who extort cash from travellers
11
So many people have an easy solution. "Do what the police say and you'll be fine." I was drinking in the woods with my friends in high school, and when the police said stop, we ran. Thank goodness the penalty wasn't a bullet in our backs.
34
Black lives matter and I feel sorry for DuBose and his family. That being said, the video I watched didn't seem to indict the officer in any way. The driver may have been drunk, had alcohol, the car did not have license plate, and he was not carrying a license. That is a threat to all of society - black and white. Furthermore, how can anyone tell from this video that the officer was not dragged along? Everything starts shaking when Mr. DuBose starts driving away, seemingly corroborating the officers story. If its murder its murder, but I don't know how anyone can find this video conclusive about those issues. The officer is calm until the car begins moving - and that type of driving seems like a risk to the officers and the rest of the community.
7
Why did the officer feel compelled to have his gun out at all? Even if the driver was trying to drive away (which he had yet to actually do), why would the officer shoot?
I've been stopped for an expired tag. I've been stopped on another occasion and didn't have my license with me. Neither of these offenses are a "threat to society" worth killing someone over.
Apologizing for this guy is silly. He freaked out and shot a man and then got his buddies to lie for him. He's not one of the good ones.
I've been stopped for an expired tag. I've been stopped on another occasion and didn't have my license with me. Neither of these offenses are a "threat to society" worth killing someone over.
Apologizing for this guy is silly. He freaked out and shot a man and then got his buddies to lie for him. He's not one of the good ones.
While I still stand by the bulk of my argument, I must admit that only after reading more comments and watching the video again did I realize how early the shot was fired (I didn't hear it the first time). He did pull out his gun and shoot rather quickly.
I watched the video. I can't even make sense of how it escalated to an execution-style shot to the head in a matter of moments. It makes no sense.
What have we come to in this country, when it has become a common part of police procedure that any kind of 'back talk' or 'odd' behavior to a police officer, any kind of non-compliance, however small, any kind of misdemeanor/ infraction, however small, can get a person shot in the head, or shot in the back, or thrown down to the ground, or asphyxiated, or taken for a spine-snapping 'rough ride' in a paddy wagon or hog-tied in sadistic, brutal fashion.
This is not normal police behavior for a civilized country, a 21st-century 'democratic' republic. Our peer nations don't treat non-compliant citizens this way. And without these videos, we would have no other 'side' to the story besides the police version, which often contradicts the video evidence.
I am pleased that this officer has been indicted, but this problem of excessive police force/police brutality/militarized policing is not going away and one indictment (never mind an actual conviction) won't change a thing in general. As we all know, most of the time police officers are not held to account, and no real police reform has taken place, since these incidents keep happening nationwide.
I personally believe that we need to start thinking about asking for an international body to investigate U.S. policing/police forces on the grounds of human rights abuses.
What have we come to in this country, when it has become a common part of police procedure that any kind of 'back talk' or 'odd' behavior to a police officer, any kind of non-compliance, however small, any kind of misdemeanor/ infraction, however small, can get a person shot in the head, or shot in the back, or thrown down to the ground, or asphyxiated, or taken for a spine-snapping 'rough ride' in a paddy wagon or hog-tied in sadistic, brutal fashion.
This is not normal police behavior for a civilized country, a 21st-century 'democratic' republic. Our peer nations don't treat non-compliant citizens this way. And without these videos, we would have no other 'side' to the story besides the police version, which often contradicts the video evidence.
I am pleased that this officer has been indicted, but this problem of excessive police force/police brutality/militarized policing is not going away and one indictment (never mind an actual conviction) won't change a thing in general. As we all know, most of the time police officers are not held to account, and no real police reform has taken place, since these incidents keep happening nationwide.
I personally believe that we need to start thinking about asking for an international body to investigate U.S. policing/police forces on the grounds of human rights abuses.
35
US is turning into a police state. I cannot believe so many posting recently when discussing either Ms. Bland's death or this one people came to the conclusion that when in presence of the police, we should just be silent and do exactly as the police have told us to do as if that is the only why for police not to shoot the citizens. Sad indeed.
Give me a break anyone who says this incompetent, angry, panicky killer cop feared for his life in the five seconds it took him to go from trying to open the door to shooting Dubose in the head. What a joke you all are.
This is disgusting. The prosecutor got it right, this guy should never have been a cop.
This is disgusting. The prosecutor got it right, this guy should never have been a cop.
35
This is the ultimate result of the warrior cop culture. When police officers are trained to believe that every day they are fighting a war in the streets, they will treat it that way. Police officers face genuine risks in the line of duty. However, this mentality - and the public's general willingness to turn a blind eye to officers stepping out of line - have gone so far and beyond what is rational and reasonable the tragic incidents like this were bound to happen.
7
I think not having a front license plate is a perfectly valid reason for a traffic stop if that plate is required by law. I think the gin bottle would lead me to give the man a field sobriety test. And his evasiveness about his license would lead me to wonder if he had outstanding warrants. I also think can see where the University police could be expected to patrol in the area surrounding a campus on the grounds that a drunk driver presents a threat to students and faculty walking in the area as well as to civilians unaffiliated with the school.
All of that having been said, the attempted cover up by this officer strongly resembles the Scott case where a man was shot in the back while running from the police.
Yes, the victim here should simply have left the car off and taken whatever medicine was coming his way. But for god's sake, people get frightened and run from the police. You can't execute people who don't present any threat to you.
All of that having been said, the attempted cover up by this officer strongly resembles the Scott case where a man was shot in the back while running from the police.
Yes, the victim here should simply have left the car off and taken whatever medicine was coming his way. But for god's sake, people get frightened and run from the police. You can't execute people who don't present any threat to you.
1
All these shootings could be avoided if only the person being questioned follows the instructions given by the officer. In every instance I have seen, someone is resisting arrest, or trying to get away. Granted some of these are not good enough reasons to get shot, but easily prevented by just doing what your told, and stop resisting.
2
Line up quietly, submit, go where you are told...no I think that generally ends badly
In other words, it's ALWAYS the victim's fault. Got it.
Black people do not want to get out of their cars because they might get killed. That is understandable. I am a white woman, and i would not eant to get out.
Reality check believe it or not road become dangerous place to drive in. People in general are all guilty least ten times a day committing road infractions. Government could solve most of problems making mantory for every one to take road test if caught for ticket .The fine bussness is source income doesn't solve the problem . Training would solve a lot issues like road rage which at all time high an will get worse. Question is why not correct problem or is it because those who hold high office or in control dosent want too because they also are guilty don't want to have to be retrained or take road test . Give police the power to send people back to school an will see real change additude behind wheel
Officer Tensing obviously thought he was going to get away with it, lying about the incident with the help of his buddies. This is yet another tragic incident that highlights the importance of police body cameras. Look at how cheap GoPro cameras are for even the average consumer. There is no legitimate reason against it. It would provide a disincentive for officers to abuse their authority, and protect honest officers from frivolous claims.
It would certainly be a more productive use of federal taxpayer dollars than buying armored personnel carriers for police departments.
It would certainly be a more productive use of federal taxpayer dollars than buying armored personnel carriers for police departments.
7
This is completely shocking and so outrageous that its hard to express any comment ...
Under basic principles of western civilization, a use of deadly force is generally illegal unless it fits within the strict requirements of four legal justifications, which does include law enforcement, but even such officials may only use the amount of force that is reasonable and necessary in the situation. Here, a cop drew his gun while there was no immediate danger to him and shot the driver in the head. Not in the leg. Not the tires. In the head!
We should be so grateful to the heroic Prosecutors in this case who saw this as a clear case of murder and aren't mincing their words about it.
Under basic principles of western civilization, a use of deadly force is generally illegal unless it fits within the strict requirements of four legal justifications, which does include law enforcement, but even such officials may only use the amount of force that is reasonable and necessary in the situation. Here, a cop drew his gun while there was no immediate danger to him and shot the driver in the head. Not in the leg. Not the tires. In the head!
We should be so grateful to the heroic Prosecutors in this case who saw this as a clear case of murder and aren't mincing their words about it.
6
The bottle of gin was full, not empty, so the comments about the driver being "drunk and belligerent" are questionable.
The driver lived around the block as he states in the video. How many of us have left ID at home when running a quick errand? If that warrants a gunshot to the head, we'd all be dead.
This tragedy is an example of the automatic assumption by many people that any resistance by a Black man means he'll become violent. I see his resistance as FEAR. As a woman, if an officer during a traffic stop reached for my door handle or into my window, I would recoil out of fear like the driver did. So for those blaming the victim for not obeying the officer's suddenly aggressive orders, look at it from the angle of being afraid, not belligerent. As we saw, his sudden fear was justified since he was killed five seconds later.
My sincere condolences to the victim's family.
The driver lived around the block as he states in the video. How many of us have left ID at home when running a quick errand? If that warrants a gunshot to the head, we'd all be dead.
This tragedy is an example of the automatic assumption by many people that any resistance by a Black man means he'll become violent. I see his resistance as FEAR. As a woman, if an officer during a traffic stop reached for my door handle or into my window, I would recoil out of fear like the driver did. So for those blaming the victim for not obeying the officer's suddenly aggressive orders, look at it from the angle of being afraid, not belligerent. As we saw, his sudden fear was justified since he was killed five seconds later.
My sincere condolences to the victim's family.
15
but he fled. The cop didn't fire until the driver fled. I am NOT exonerating the cop AT ALL. But in many of these cases, the victim seems to act in an incoherent, bewildering manner. But I am the type of person who knows and uses the word "bewildering."
I have never driven my car without my license. are you kidding?
I have never driven my car without my license. are you kidding?
Many of these cases seem to result from the officer being disobeyed and being unable to handle not being regarded as the authority figure that they are. Officers may feel impotent if the individual runs or says "No" to an officer's request. The impulse is to then use the gun. Training needs to specifically address that scenario. If you have the person's name and address, you can find them later if needed. If not, you need to let them go. The psychological trap is the officer's injured ego that causes an impulsive deadly act.
5
@dmgrush1:
I agree with you the cop had not much to lose by letting Mr. Dubose flee. The charge was Mr. Dubose missing a front plate- the cop's dashcam video has evidence of flight for future use. No need to draw a gun and fire it.
I agree with you the cop had not much to lose by letting Mr. Dubose flee. The charge was Mr. Dubose missing a front plate- the cop's dashcam video has evidence of flight for future use. No need to draw a gun and fire it.
This is obviously a disturbing story. But it's too early to say if race played a role. Yes, the policeman was white and the victim was black, but it seems premature to say whether implicit or explicit racism played a role.
The officer killed a man, and needs to face the consequences. The video is disturbing to say the least. Like all accused he is entitled to his day in court. And if found guilty, he should receive appropriate punishment.
But the media should hold off until all the facts are out, before turning this tragedy in to a riot-inciting circus.
The officer killed a man, and needs to face the consequences. The video is disturbing to say the least. Like all accused he is entitled to his day in court. And if found guilty, he should receive appropriate punishment.
But the media should hold off until all the facts are out, before turning this tragedy in to a riot-inciting circus.
4
@Alex:
Mr. Dubose's race is irrelevant.
This cop overreacted and murdered Mr. Dubose in cold blood for that he needs to face the consequences.
Mr. Dubose's race is irrelevant.
This cop overreacted and murdered Mr. Dubose in cold blood for that he needs to face the consequences.
1
Horrifying.
For all the commenters suggesting the victims should handle a traffic stop more cooperatively to prevent these unconscionable outcomes please remember that many people in our country are very poor, have physical and mental illness, suffer from addiction and are overwhelmed with ordinary life and do not cope well with a traffic stop-coping poorly with a traffic stop is not the victims fault.
Police are supposed to be well trained to defuse deescalate and support a stressed person properly through the encounter.
For all the commenters suggesting the victims should handle a traffic stop more cooperatively to prevent these unconscionable outcomes please remember that many people in our country are very poor, have physical and mental illness, suffer from addiction and are overwhelmed with ordinary life and do not cope well with a traffic stop-coping poorly with a traffic stop is not the victims fault.
Police are supposed to be well trained to defuse deescalate and support a stressed person properly through the encounter.
19
Yes - coping poorly with a traffic stop is definitely the fault of the person not coping. You are responsible for your actions.
If the ticket quotas, arrest targets, and revenue generating element of policing were eliminated, then unnecessary interaction with the public such as this one, driving without a front plate, would never happen.
Make police peace officers and public servants and not revenue generators and you could reduce the police force substantially - start with the ones with multiple brutality charges or over usage of "resisting arrest" charges.
Make police peace officers and public servants and not revenue generators and you could reduce the police force substantially - start with the ones with multiple brutality charges or over usage of "resisting arrest" charges.
12
While this case appears to be nothing less than manslaughter, why has no one said this:
Black or white, resisting, fleeing from or otherwise disrespecting an officer of the law is contemptuous of the legal and social contract that holds our society together. This obligation is not voided even if the officer is not holding up his/her end of the social contract. If that isn't enough, it is also INSANELY DANGEROUS, since said officers are armed and, experience shows, cannot always be counted on to act with restraint.
Black or white, resisting, fleeing from or otherwise disrespecting an officer of the law is contemptuous of the legal and social contract that holds our society together. This obligation is not voided even if the officer is not holding up his/her end of the social contract. If that isn't enough, it is also INSANELY DANGEROUS, since said officers are armed and, experience shows, cannot always be counted on to act with restraint.
8
Let's blame the victim and forget about the fact that the COP LIED.
It's funny how white people are never shot in the back/choked to death for *resisting* arrest but black people are......in fact Dylan Roof was treated to Burger King before being taking to jail.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/06/arresting-offiacers-bought-...
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/06/arresting-offiacers-bought-...
Resist and flee are certainly part of the social contract. Disrespect, on the other hand, is not! Free citizens have the right to question authority and authority figures have the obligation to answer; this is the principal underlying due process. Lest anyone forget, innocence is presumed until guilt is proven. Police officers were never meant to be judge, jury and executioners, especially in a traffic stop.
If this had been Thomas Crown, the police officer would have picked his place differently, and we would not be having this conversation. However, because the poor and racial minorities in these united states do not enjoy the same social place (think class) they have NOT been ascribed with the same rights under the law and merely because they have committed the crime of not climbing to the right financial heights and/or not being born to white parents.
I wish I were being facetious, but I am not. I sincerely appreciate your point, donnenbergad, but it leaves me in a conundrum. I have to not only tell my son and daughter to be afraid of the police, I have to train them to be obsequious when the other 99% of the community they live in does not have to be. Can you please offer a solution to the problem (irrational and illegal policing) so that my children do not have to live like it's 1760, 1860, or 1960. I am losing years off my life because I am terrified every time my son leaves the house.
If this had been Thomas Crown, the police officer would have picked his place differently, and we would not be having this conversation. However, because the poor and racial minorities in these united states do not enjoy the same social place (think class) they have NOT been ascribed with the same rights under the law and merely because they have committed the crime of not climbing to the right financial heights and/or not being born to white parents.
I wish I were being facetious, but I am not. I sincerely appreciate your point, donnenbergad, but it leaves me in a conundrum. I have to not only tell my son and daughter to be afraid of the police, I have to train them to be obsequious when the other 99% of the community they live in does not have to be. Can you please offer a solution to the problem (irrational and illegal policing) so that my children do not have to live like it's 1760, 1860, or 1960. I am losing years off my life because I am terrified every time my son leaves the house.
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
Actually, as advocates for non-white communities have been saying for a long time, people get shot for a traffic stop, or minor offense all the time. But in the past no one cared because all of the dead people were black, Hispanic, or another ethnic minority.
Actually, as advocates for non-white communities have been saying for a long time, people get shot for a traffic stop, or minor offense all the time. But in the past no one cared because all of the dead people were black, Hispanic, or another ethnic minority.
6
“This doesn’t happen in the United States, O.K.?” he said. “People don’t get shot for a traffic stop.”
Sadly, among advanced nations, it's just about the only country where someone stopped on a traffic infraction and who is unarmed can be shot by the police. The only blessing, as happened here, is that the event is more likely now to be caught on camera.
Sadly, among advanced nations, it's just about the only country where someone stopped on a traffic infraction and who is unarmed can be shot by the police. The only blessing, as happened here, is that the event is more likely now to be caught on camera.
6
Good police don't murder people. Only the bad ones do.
4
so… this is the litmus test?
Sure looks like murder, although the video is inconclusive. It's clear though that the driver did not pull out a weapon and didn't drive his car into the officer, as the officer was next to the car the whole time, and cars can't drive laterally sideways.
I think the campus cop should be prosecuted for murder here as he wasn't in danger and had no reason to shoot this man. But it also should be noted maybe, the driver was not without fault, possibly drunk, and rather than getting out of the car when ordered to do so, he started up the car and may have started driving when the shot was fired. Nonetheless, that's no reason to shoot him.
It's clear too from the video that another cop of some kind arrived on the scene right at the end, rushing over to the stopped car from the right, and that there was at least one pedestrian walking by. Hopefully they can testify as to what really happened as the video is too choppy to know for sure; if the car somehow did knock into the cop, he could have panicked, and that would make manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter a more appropriate charge I think.
Lastly I wonder why a campus cop is carrying a gun and pulling over drivers on a public road, and what kind of training these campus cops get. They're supposed to be keeping the kids safe and stopping them from drinking too heavily, maybe handing out parking tickets, and that's it; I don't recall my college security being armed all the time.
I think the campus cop should be prosecuted for murder here as he wasn't in danger and had no reason to shoot this man. But it also should be noted maybe, the driver was not without fault, possibly drunk, and rather than getting out of the car when ordered to do so, he started up the car and may have started driving when the shot was fired. Nonetheless, that's no reason to shoot him.
It's clear too from the video that another cop of some kind arrived on the scene right at the end, rushing over to the stopped car from the right, and that there was at least one pedestrian walking by. Hopefully they can testify as to what really happened as the video is too choppy to know for sure; if the car somehow did knock into the cop, he could have panicked, and that would make manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter a more appropriate charge I think.
Lastly I wonder why a campus cop is carrying a gun and pulling over drivers on a public road, and what kind of training these campus cops get. They're supposed to be keeping the kids safe and stopping them from drinking too heavily, maybe handing out parking tickets, and that's it; I don't recall my college security being armed all the time.
1
So, how do you explain what DG from CA commented:
"If you look at the gray car in the foreground it's about 2-3 car lengths ahead of the Dubose's vehicle. When he stands up after being dragged, he's next to it. He should have gotten out of the way of the vehicle when it was started."
"If you look at the gray car in the foreground it's about 2-3 car lengths ahead of the Dubose's vehicle. When he stands up after being dragged, he's next to it. He should have gotten out of the way of the vehicle when it was started."
1
From the video and article's information it seems clear that the shooting was not justified.
However, I have two other thoughts. First, the video shows how quickly things can go from normal and calm to deadly. It reinforces my belief that human beings should not have guns within easy reach. The officer did not have time to think things through. He acted on impulse. I suspect that that's how most murders happen, split second choices when a gun is within reach.
My second thought is confusion about the reason for universities running their own law enforcement departments. I can see the need for security guards but not police. This seems crazy to me. It ties in with the terrible job universities do with investigating serious crimes, such as rape. If there are laws that make university police departments necessary, then those laws need to change. Campus safety and campus law enforcement should be handled by the professionals who make up the local law enforcement jurisdiction. This would cut down on inexperienced campus cops handling serious situations badly, and it would cut down on the cover up of felonies commited on campus by students, coaches, and others.
However, I have two other thoughts. First, the video shows how quickly things can go from normal and calm to deadly. It reinforces my belief that human beings should not have guns within easy reach. The officer did not have time to think things through. He acted on impulse. I suspect that that's how most murders happen, split second choices when a gun is within reach.
My second thought is confusion about the reason for universities running their own law enforcement departments. I can see the need for security guards but not police. This seems crazy to me. It ties in with the terrible job universities do with investigating serious crimes, such as rape. If there are laws that make university police departments necessary, then those laws need to change. Campus safety and campus law enforcement should be handled by the professionals who make up the local law enforcement jurisdiction. This would cut down on inexperienced campus cops handling serious situations badly, and it would cut down on the cover up of felonies commited on campus by students, coaches, and others.
7
With cameras all over the place we will see more and more evidence of policemen killing Afro-Americans for no other reason than pure racist hatred. Thus the time has come to have separate prisons for indicted policemen only. Too dangerous for them to be mixed with others, especially Afro-Americans.
4
I'm a conservative white man. If the driver was trying to flee the scene and was shot by the officer, this is murder.
10
I live in Cincinnati these days. I don't have a front plate on my car. I don't even have a plate to put there; it's leased, and the dealership gets the plates. They didn't give one to me. Shockingly, I've never been pulled over for this grievous offense. I guess I should make a couple of phone calls so I don't get shot for going to buy gin.
I did not live in Cincinnati when there were riots in the neighborhood just next to where Mr. Dubose was shot, back in 2001 when another unarmed African American was shot by the police without repercussion. Perhaps the area has learned that the "no repercussions" part is a bad idea.
I did not live in Cincinnati when there were riots in the neighborhood just next to where Mr. Dubose was shot, back in 2001 when another unarmed African American was shot by the police without repercussion. Perhaps the area has learned that the "no repercussions" part is a bad idea.
11
Apparently in the past many horrendous event happened that the public was not aware of. Cameras worn by cops to show the truth is a great idea. My condolences to this family on the loss of their son.
11
I was a police officer for 32 years. Police should not be judged by how much grief they won't take, but by how much grief they are able to take. That's the measure of a good cop - and it makes all the difference.
67
I feel like part of the hiring process for cops should be free associating about what you were like at age 17-21. I'm guessing that 99.99% of us broke a law.
were there as many hot heads back in your day or is this something that has changed with later generations?
Agreed! I used to bike ride in the late 1980s with the captain of the Akron,OH police force. He would concur. His biggest worry then was the psychological control of his officers.
Unfortunately, Mr. Deters is wrong. This does happen in the United States. And it happens much too much.
14
This is sickening.
An officer shoots a guy because he doesn't get out of the car but takes off instead? Why do so many police officers think it's ok to use deadly force when there us no cause to? And it always seems to be a white cop and a black victim.
There is something seriously wrong with the way police are trained. This may also be the result of latent racism unleashed by a having a black President and the subtle and not-so-subtle racism from conservatives that permeates our country, from Congress ("You lie!"), Fox "News", Sarah Palin, Donald Trump, to talk radio.
Thank god cameras are recording some of the cops killing black men, and a couple have been charged with murder. Some still get away with it (e.g. the cop who killed Eric Garner).
Police need better vetting and training. Maybe seeing some of their colleagues put away for murder will make cops think twice before they reach for their gun.
An officer shoots a guy because he doesn't get out of the car but takes off instead? Why do so many police officers think it's ok to use deadly force when there us no cause to? And it always seems to be a white cop and a black victim.
There is something seriously wrong with the way police are trained. This may also be the result of latent racism unleashed by a having a black President and the subtle and not-so-subtle racism from conservatives that permeates our country, from Congress ("You lie!"), Fox "News", Sarah Palin, Donald Trump, to talk radio.
Thank god cameras are recording some of the cops killing black men, and a couple have been charged with murder. Some still get away with it (e.g. the cop who killed Eric Garner).
Police need better vetting and training. Maybe seeing some of their colleagues put away for murder will make cops think twice before they reach for their gun.
5
One can also think of performing undercover tests where officers go undercover and let themselves get stopped by the police. They will then write a report on their experiences during the stops. Also, if the police know that a certain fraction of the people they stop are going to be "peer review stops", then that's a deterrence from not behaving professionally in each and every case.
The reviews by fellow police officers may find flaws that leads to changes in the training of officers. This means that the system can then adapt itself without there having to be bad incidents where people get shot, preventing such incidents before they even happen.