Iranians are exactly the same as Cubans. You want to go back to the way it was before the current regime, but you never mentions the problems of the regime you lived so wonderfully under. The regimes in both countries were pretty nasty or else there wouldn't have been violent revolutions.
10
This op-ed piece is so full of simplistic generalizations that it boggles the mind. Dear Reza: listen to your father, a man whom I'm sure like my father and many others of their generation, learned the difficult lessons of Iranian history/politics. Don't be yet another naive Iranian liberal, like so many others in Iran's recent history, who were/are always the first to be purged, imprisoned, killed, or exiled....just ask Jason Rezaian. If anybody actually believes that being nice to the ruling cerical junta will help to empower moderates in Iran, then there is a bridge in Isfahan that I'd like to sell you.....
12
I believe the younger Iranians, Like Dr. Aslan, living comfortably in the US are more sympathetic to the Islamic regime for the obvious reason that they have not lived in Iran in the aftermath of Islamic Republic and thus unacquainted of the miserable life a typical Iranian family has to endure on a daily basis.
A bit discouraging article, I think what Reza hopes to happen after a deal finalized are more of wishful thinking than realities.
A bit discouraging article, I think what Reza hopes to happen after a deal finalized are more of wishful thinking than realities.
9
Some like to full themselves that the mullahs regime has Iranian people support, nothing is further than truth, Mullahs regime has the same origin in 1979,as the Pinochet regime had in Chile, in 1973, go figure it out for yourself, and stop spreading spin in behave of the regime.
4
The very good analogy to understand the present Mullahs' regime's origin, is to study the foreign sponsored regime change in Chile, in 1973, with Khomeini playing, in 1979, the role of Pinochet.
4
What is the alternative to negotiations? Invasion followed by a regime change. For those claiming how "untrustworthy" the current Iranian regime is - read your history. The US has been responsible for two regime changes in Iran already, one in 1953 and one in 1979. It is time to make peace, and get out of the the regime changing business.
10
Your observations remind me very much of the two generations of Cubans I knew when i lived in Miami. We see how much our isolation policies achieved with Cuba.
3
Continuing to do what has not worked for 30 years is unlikely suddenly to work. There are no signs of it.
Americans will not go to war with Iran for the purpose of re-installing a government of our choice. Maybe before the Iraq War we could have been inducted to do that, but not now.
Hence, try something else. That something else won't be conquest and imposing a Shah-like puppet government.
We can't continue or intensify sanctions. The appeal of the idea is obvious, but they are not really our sanctions because we didn't have trade to sanction. They are sanctions done by others who did trade with Iran, and they mean to do so again and sooner than later. They won't do ever-intensifying sanctions, so we can't.
So if no war, no sanctions, and no more of the same, what is left? A deal. Much as we huff and puff, our bargaining position is not really all that strong. We've done well, considering what we really have to work with.
We have about 10 years in which to reform our relations with Iran, before our continuing hard line produces an enemy in Iran that sees its only hope in nuclear deterrence. That is what our deal gets us. If we don't take the opportunity, then the deal fails.
Those who say it is a bad deal mean for us to refuse that opportunity. They don't want good relations with a non-nuclear Iran. They want war, overthrow, and return of something like the Shah.
Americans will not go to war with Iran for the purpose of re-installing a government of our choice. Maybe before the Iraq War we could have been inducted to do that, but not now.
Hence, try something else. That something else won't be conquest and imposing a Shah-like puppet government.
We can't continue or intensify sanctions. The appeal of the idea is obvious, but they are not really our sanctions because we didn't have trade to sanction. They are sanctions done by others who did trade with Iran, and they mean to do so again and sooner than later. They won't do ever-intensifying sanctions, so we can't.
So if no war, no sanctions, and no more of the same, what is left? A deal. Much as we huff and puff, our bargaining position is not really all that strong. We've done well, considering what we really have to work with.
We have about 10 years in which to reform our relations with Iran, before our continuing hard line produces an enemy in Iran that sees its only hope in nuclear deterrence. That is what our deal gets us. If we don't take the opportunity, then the deal fails.
Those who say it is a bad deal mean for us to refuse that opportunity. They don't want good relations with a non-nuclear Iran. They want war, overthrow, and return of something like the Shah.
10
It is is gross error to compare mullahs' foreign sponsored coup in 1979, to any true revolution, such as French. However, there is one similar coup that is the Pinochet Revolution in Chile, As it is customary is deceptive circles of calling any foreign powers sponsored coup, a revolution.
4
So everyone on this thread thinks that Iran is in a mad dash to build a bomb except the experts.
Less than a month after Netanyahu's 2012 warning to the UN that Iran was 70 percent of the way to completing its "plans to build a nuclear weapon", Israel's intelligence service stated that Iran was "not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons".
Recent assessments by American spy agencies are consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years ago. This remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.
The "mad mullahs" made a strategic decision years ago to focus on alternate ways to guarantee the survival of their religio-political regime. Proxy armies throughout the region that have the capacity to do "regime change" and other regional security projects are their weapons of choice.
Nukes are counterproductive to their political and economic interests at this point. A deal will keep the international community of their backs while they strengthen their economic hand. If they do go nukes, they will use regional proxies as the procurement and delivery mechanism.
Less than a month after Netanyahu's 2012 warning to the UN that Iran was 70 percent of the way to completing its "plans to build a nuclear weapon", Israel's intelligence service stated that Iran was "not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons".
Recent assessments by American spy agencies are consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years ago. This remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.
The "mad mullahs" made a strategic decision years ago to focus on alternate ways to guarantee the survival of their religio-political regime. Proxy armies throughout the region that have the capacity to do "regime change" and other regional security projects are their weapons of choice.
Nukes are counterproductive to their political and economic interests at this point. A deal will keep the international community of their backs while they strengthen their economic hand. If they do go nukes, they will use regional proxies as the procurement and delivery mechanism.
7
There's at least one expert on this thread that knows they are rushing madly to acquire nuclear weapons.
3
Trust no one, carry a big stick and hit them back twice as hard....
1
Prof. Aslan neglects to note the fact that Iran is no more isolated than Saudi Arabia. Much of the world trades freely with it, and it has no problem selling the oil that undergirds its economy. If it is isolated, it's an isolation born of religious contempt for the rest of the world and a desire by THEM not to be "corrupted" by the beliefs and folkways of others. Its society actually is no more opaque than Saudi Arabia's, largely for the same reasons.
This is an Islamist thing. These days, of course, that's not precisely politically correct a thing to say in a morally relativist world; but there it is.
I would have liked your father. I like your aunt. They may have been speaking from the depths of personal self-interest, but they had and have a well-honed sense of realism about the mullahs.
Engaging a country may change behavior if the two parties have something in common besides their shared humanity. In this case, engaging Iran was merely a matter of "legacy" despite sage advice against it by people who know better. Now, even Mr. Obama is having second thoughts about the intentions of the mullahs as Ali Khamenei himself has made crystal clear that he intends to make a bomb and a delivery vehicle as quickly as he can, despite ANY agreements his government may sign for its OWN self-interested reasons.
Like the Cuban refugees before your time, teach your children to become good Americans and forget the fatherland as utterly as it has forgotten you.
This is an Islamist thing. These days, of course, that's not precisely politically correct a thing to say in a morally relativist world; but there it is.
I would have liked your father. I like your aunt. They may have been speaking from the depths of personal self-interest, but they had and have a well-honed sense of realism about the mullahs.
Engaging a country may change behavior if the two parties have something in common besides their shared humanity. In this case, engaging Iran was merely a matter of "legacy" despite sage advice against it by people who know better. Now, even Mr. Obama is having second thoughts about the intentions of the mullahs as Ali Khamenei himself has made crystal clear that he intends to make a bomb and a delivery vehicle as quickly as he can, despite ANY agreements his government may sign for its OWN self-interested reasons.
Like the Cuban refugees before your time, teach your children to become good Americans and forget the fatherland as utterly as it has forgotten you.
2
Your elders prove the value of age and wisdom.
Trusting ordinary Iranians is different than trusting the Mullah's because the latter, who control the country with an iron fist, are entirely untrustworthy.
Trusting ordinary Iranians is different than trusting the Mullah's because the latter, who control the country with an iron fist, are entirely untrustworthy.
8
The embittered emigres of an old regime have rarely represented wisdom, not in Revolutionary France, and not in Iran today.
9
ISIS, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, the taliban, the terrorist, the militant muslims, Sunni militants, Sadam Hussein, Osama Bin Ladin, Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, Fidel Castro, and others.....are merely small time homicidal street thugs. These street thugs are small time potatoes who will make noise and name call. The big nuke boys to worry about are the U.S., Russia and China. On Oct. 16, 1964, China detonated its first atomic bomb. Hopefully everyone is also convinced that after the October 1962 missile crisis between U.S. Pres Kennedy and Premier Nikita Khrushchev of the Soviet Union over Cuba's small time street thug fidel castro, that the real power was not fidel, but rather the U.S. and the Soviet Union. Kennedy and Khrushchev came within a hair from pushing the button on a world nuclear war. North Vietnam was nothing without the military backing of Russia.
The real threat is a nuclear holocaust. The main players are the U.S., Russia, and China. Please don't believe the nonsensical Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) of 1968. If you do then you probably believe in the tooth fairy as well. As long as all countries of the world continue with their quest for power and control.....the threat of a nuclear holocaust is real...the only question is when.
In a war there has to be an undisputed winner and a loser....otherwise the war continues. Any time an outside arbitrator or mediator steps in and declares peace...it merely fuels the flames of war.
The real threat is a nuclear holocaust. The main players are the U.S., Russia, and China. Please don't believe the nonsensical Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) of 1968. If you do then you probably believe in the tooth fairy as well. As long as all countries of the world continue with their quest for power and control.....the threat of a nuclear holocaust is real...the only question is when.
In a war there has to be an undisputed winner and a loser....otherwise the war continues. Any time an outside arbitrator or mediator steps in and declares peace...it merely fuels the flames of war.
3
"Merely small time homicidal street thugs" applies as well to the Shah and his SAVAK, the Egyptian military dictatorship, the various minority monarchs teetering in the Gulf, and much else we prop up today.
We'd be better served by supporting governments with real, legitimate domestic support, making what compromises we need to make with them. "Otherwise the war continues." The only winners are those who profit from war.
We'd be better served by supporting governments with real, legitimate domestic support, making what compromises we need to make with them. "Otherwise the war continues." The only winners are those who profit from war.
4
Even if this premise of bringing the moderate in Iran to the fore through international engagement is accurate, how realistic is such a premise in a Middle East roiling in wars and chaos following "The Arab Spring?" Whatever degree of distrust I hold of religious radicals of any stripe pale beside the sheer number of "tribal areas" with weapons and thousands of years of warring with their neighbors. I do feel Iran has not been forthcoming to date-why build any facilities so far underground if not trying to hide something? Shakespeare said it eloquently: The past is prologue to the future.
3
We chose to crush the Arab Spring in Egypt and Bahrain. We supported it only where it challenged our enemies, and we supported not those friendly to us, but anyone who would fight a civil war against our enemies. That is where we got to supporting jihad in Libya and Syria, and accidentally in Iraq too.
We may not be sole cause, but we are a powerful actor in all this, we acted as fools.
We may not be sole cause, but we are a powerful actor in all this, we acted as fools.
4
Dear Professor Aslan:
Here you are, along with your family, safe and sound in America, through the grace of God and the generosity of the American people. On this day in 1776 at Philadelphia, my ancestor signed his name on a document to start a revolution. At great personal risk. He didn't ask the French, the Spanish or the Italians to free his country. That was his undertaking alone.
Today would be an excellent day to say thank you to all of those who made it possible for you. Tell your younger sister that seven generations of my family have worn a uniform protecting the life style she now enjoys, a number have died doing that. And tell everyone, if they want their country back, go take. Nobody else should carry your bucket.
Here you are, along with your family, safe and sound in America, through the grace of God and the generosity of the American people. On this day in 1776 at Philadelphia, my ancestor signed his name on a document to start a revolution. At great personal risk. He didn't ask the French, the Spanish or the Italians to free his country. That was his undertaking alone.
Today would be an excellent day to say thank you to all of those who made it possible for you. Tell your younger sister that seven generations of my family have worn a uniform protecting the life style she now enjoys, a number have died doing that. And tell everyone, if they want their country back, go take. Nobody else should carry your bucket.
6
Engaging Iran is carrying American-Iranians "bucket?" :/
1
No, Oliver:
"My father...went to his grave waiting for the United States to overthrow the Iranian government so he could go home."
I suppose he expected us to carry his bucket. You ought to read a bit more closely.
"My father...went to his grave waiting for the United States to overthrow the Iranian government so he could go home."
I suppose he expected us to carry his bucket. You ought to read a bit more closely.
2
I'm not sure this single anecdote tells us anything about a generational divide across the Iranian-American community. If it does, it sounds like the young should be paying attention to what their elders are telling them.
Mr. Aslan's sister requests an arranged marriage and wears the hijab in America? That's because neither have been forced on her and she has the great luxury of Western liberty, and now she turns on that liberty by rebelling against it, as the young often rebel against the old. She imagines that these actions bring her closer to her identity, but she has no clue what it's like to live under the mullahs who agree with her. She rejects basic principles of Western civilization — a woman chooses her own marriage partner and doesn't cover herself as if her very corporality were a point of shame — but doesn't understand the extent to which she benefits from them, even in making a choice that the society she actually lives in frowns upon.
How many women living under the medieval cruelty of the Iranian theocracy long to shed the hijab, to go on a date, to fall in love and choose somebody (male or female) without risk of government-sanctioned violence and social exclusion.
Perhaps I should say that I support the sister's rights to choose the hijab and arranged marriage, but instead I'll say what I really think: that it makes a mockery of the millions of women who have these things forced upon them by penalty of death.
Mr. Aslan's sister requests an arranged marriage and wears the hijab in America? That's because neither have been forced on her and she has the great luxury of Western liberty, and now she turns on that liberty by rebelling against it, as the young often rebel against the old. She imagines that these actions bring her closer to her identity, but she has no clue what it's like to live under the mullahs who agree with her. She rejects basic principles of Western civilization — a woman chooses her own marriage partner and doesn't cover herself as if her very corporality were a point of shame — but doesn't understand the extent to which she benefits from them, even in making a choice that the society she actually lives in frowns upon.
How many women living under the medieval cruelty of the Iranian theocracy long to shed the hijab, to go on a date, to fall in love and choose somebody (male or female) without risk of government-sanctioned violence and social exclusion.
Perhaps I should say that I support the sister's rights to choose the hijab and arranged marriage, but instead I'll say what I really think: that it makes a mockery of the millions of women who have these things forced upon them by penalty of death.
34
Here are a few details that need to be worked out if Iran is to become moderate:
Iran's constitution locks in Iran's current form of government from being changed, It is "UNALTERABLE". Councils of hardline elders and future Supreme Leaders cannot change it. As it stands now, Iran can NEVER EVER become a Secular Democracy.
Hejab is an abstract primary concept of Iranian-Shiite Faith. One of 3 primary pillars and can NEVER be changed. Mollahs prefer women to stay in their place, and not in stadiums.
The Iranian constitution also has NO AMENDMENT RULES OR PROCEDURES. It can never be altered in ANY WAY. It is blessed by SL as a "Perfect Document". Just like the Qoran. The slightest public suggestion of a change to it, is an insult to Islam, Prophet, Qoran, SL, the Islamic revolution, AND to make absolutely sure, a standard Felony Federal Crime. Iran's courts have recently started sentencing several Iranians for this "Insult" when the Judge determined that the defendant had "thought about the insult" in his heart.
So Iran now "leads the world" in one other area, "Thought Crime".
Now, these are the facts about how Iran works, and how there is no civil procedure or rule to change one iota of how Iran is run. So please, one of you young folks (Not Elder Aslan), please, YOU tell me how if all this is illegal and prohibited, how the "Change" you are now hopeful for can happen?
Because according to Iranian Law. Hope doesn't change Iranian Law. "Unalterable" means Hope-Proof.
Iran's constitution locks in Iran's current form of government from being changed, It is "UNALTERABLE". Councils of hardline elders and future Supreme Leaders cannot change it. As it stands now, Iran can NEVER EVER become a Secular Democracy.
Hejab is an abstract primary concept of Iranian-Shiite Faith. One of 3 primary pillars and can NEVER be changed. Mollahs prefer women to stay in their place, and not in stadiums.
The Iranian constitution also has NO AMENDMENT RULES OR PROCEDURES. It can never be altered in ANY WAY. It is blessed by SL as a "Perfect Document". Just like the Qoran. The slightest public suggestion of a change to it, is an insult to Islam, Prophet, Qoran, SL, the Islamic revolution, AND to make absolutely sure, a standard Felony Federal Crime. Iran's courts have recently started sentencing several Iranians for this "Insult" when the Judge determined that the defendant had "thought about the insult" in his heart.
So Iran now "leads the world" in one other area, "Thought Crime".
Now, these are the facts about how Iran works, and how there is no civil procedure or rule to change one iota of how Iran is run. So please, one of you young folks (Not Elder Aslan), please, YOU tell me how if all this is illegal and prohibited, how the "Change" you are now hopeful for can happen?
Because according to Iranian Law. Hope doesn't change Iranian Law. "Unalterable" means Hope-Proof.
16
I am sorry. You are incorrect. The Iranian constitution can indeed be changed, and there have been several serious attempts to do so. The most serious change being contemplated at present is the elimination or the modification of the Velayat-e Faqih doctrine that establishes the Spiritual Leader in power. This is backed by a number of clerics in the religious schools of Qom. The current younger generation is definitely keen to make these changes.
As for hijab, when were you last in Iran? You will see that for modern Iranian women, the hijab is a mere accoutrement to their otherwise highly fashionable outfits. Head covering has become a fashion statement, not a sign of oppression. Again, the younger generation is taking the lead and defying the religious leadership.
Iran is changing, and Iranians who have not been back to Iran for some time are completely out of the loop.
As for hijab, when were you last in Iran? You will see that for modern Iranian women, the hijab is a mere accoutrement to their otherwise highly fashionable outfits. Head covering has become a fashion statement, not a sign of oppression. Again, the younger generation is taking the lead and defying the religious leadership.
Iran is changing, and Iranians who have not been back to Iran for some time are completely out of the loop.
9
The choices here are not at all engaging. We have three:
First, we can do what we are doing which is to finish a deal that we know they won't keep and wait for them to explode a bomb.
Two, we can do no deal and just watch and wait till they explode a bomb.
Three, we can attack, hoping we can create with our military a country where they can not secretly build a bomb, which is unlikely but might slow things down a bit. Till they can secretly build bomb then explode it.
What kind of choices are those? No good but what else is available?
First, we can do what we are doing which is to finish a deal that we know they won't keep and wait for them to explode a bomb.
Two, we can do no deal and just watch and wait till they explode a bomb.
Three, we can attack, hoping we can create with our military a country where they can not secretly build a bomb, which is unlikely but might slow things down a bit. Till they can secretly build bomb then explode it.
What kind of choices are those? No good but what else is available?
4
Well, hey, guess we'd best dial up the red telephone and tell Slim Pickens to head for his B-52 and rev it up. Yee-haw!!!!
3
The US will not keep its word, and will continue hostilities against Iran until it is once again an oil colony.
1
William Beeman provides a link to his Huffington post piece on his recent visit to Iran. Well worth reading.
Professor Beeman mentions that the government is a bit paranoid, and, as paranoids often too, probably behaves in far too heavy-handed a way for the tastes of the "post-Revolutionaries" he describes. That strikes me as plausible, and one hopes the government backs off a little (or a lot). (Incidentally, as has often been the case for me, a Mad Magazine cartoon from years ago presents what I consider to be, hand's down, the all-time best example of paranoia: A man is walking in an area of the city to which he's never before been in his life. He steps on a piece of chewing gum on the sidewalk, which sticks to his shoe as he takes his next step. He looks down at the gum and thinks: "Now how did they know I was going to be here today?")
Nonetheless, as someone said: "Even paranoids have real enemies." Maybe the Iranian government is excessively worried, but most of us would be worried too if, for example, several of our nuclear scientists had been murdered in open daylight. Somebody must be arranging these killings, after all, probably someone from a country that is unfriendly to Iran. Thus, while no government should detain a citizen from an enemy country for political reasons, and while Jason Rezaian may be entirely innocent, I'm not willing to assume he's innocent simply because he's an American, just a journalist "doing his job." Maybe he's innocent; maybe not.
Professor Beeman mentions that the government is a bit paranoid, and, as paranoids often too, probably behaves in far too heavy-handed a way for the tastes of the "post-Revolutionaries" he describes. That strikes me as plausible, and one hopes the government backs off a little (or a lot). (Incidentally, as has often been the case for me, a Mad Magazine cartoon from years ago presents what I consider to be, hand's down, the all-time best example of paranoia: A man is walking in an area of the city to which he's never before been in his life. He steps on a piece of chewing gum on the sidewalk, which sticks to his shoe as he takes his next step. He looks down at the gum and thinks: "Now how did they know I was going to be here today?")
Nonetheless, as someone said: "Even paranoids have real enemies." Maybe the Iranian government is excessively worried, but most of us would be worried too if, for example, several of our nuclear scientists had been murdered in open daylight. Somebody must be arranging these killings, after all, probably someone from a country that is unfriendly to Iran. Thus, while no government should detain a citizen from an enemy country for political reasons, and while Jason Rezaian may be entirely innocent, I'm not willing to assume he's innocent simply because he's an American, just a journalist "doing his job." Maybe he's innocent; maybe not.
1
Then we could consider the historical context. You know, how Iran came to have a theocratic government? We could start with the British, American and Soviet Union plays there in the 20th century. We have been meddling in Iran for almost 100 years. British MI5 and the American CIA in the thick of it, and why? Oil, of course. We created that monster, in a not altogether different way than we created Sadam Hussein and ISIS. And we think we have the right to deny Iran the development of nuclear power. Our arrogance knows no end.
3
iran is such an interesting country. following its fortunes over the past 60 years has been a spellbinding story. in the midst of all the bemoaning about all the countries that will not will not see democracy as the one true way we and the brits organize a coup to get ride of one of the few democratic elected democrats in the region. that done in its place we help install the shah and he brings along his band of thugs. overtime the shah's thugs get so hated that we are forced into allowing him to be removed. now the iranians themselves install a new head of state who apparently brings along his band of thugs. so the american administration has a dilemma - which band of thugs do we want there ours or theirs? reza aslan obviously would prefer the shah's thugs back in place. the iranian expats were probably the benefactors of the shah's thuggery so it stands to reason they would love to be back there because they sorely miss the wonderful times they enjoyed probably not even aware of the level of thuggery that was making this condition available to those and such as those.
6
In spite of what most are made to believe, the unpleasant truth is that, in reality, there has been two regime changes in Iran in the 20th century, orchestrated by the same powers, one in 1953, and the other in 1979.
5
Actually, isolating a country can change its behavior. It turns out that isolating Libya worked extremely well. Gaddafi shrank away under the pressure of sanctions and diplomatic isolation. South Africa might still be under apartheid were it not for the intensive isolation, actions, and diplomatic freezing-out of the 1980s. It does not work with all countries, but it does work with some.
In the case of Iran, engagement may well be the right answer. Unfortunately, there is no way to know until some time down the line...
In the case of Iran, engagement may well be the right answer. Unfortunately, there is no way to know until some time down the line...
2
I support Obama's foreign policy. I support diplomacy, rather than war.
But, I must admit, when I hear older Iranians--and I include people other than those mentioned in the commentary--warn starkly, "Do Not Trust the Iranian Government!" I shutter.
Otto Von Bismarck's quip..."not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier"...sums up my view of the Middle East ( although he was referring to the Balkans) The Iranians are a Turkish/Saudi problem. Both these countries have lent clandestine monies and military support to Sunni efforts in Syria, but neither have committed what we call "boots on the ground" type of support. And, in the past, the Saudis have treated American troops as little more than mercenaries, to be hired or traded for oil. So, I am glad Obama, not a Republican, occupies the White House.
The upshot, which seems to be overlooked, is: Sanctions Work! The US has the tools, short of "boots on the ground" to engage these recalcitrant leaders.
If the reports I read in the NYT and other sources are correct, our negotiators are placating Iranian demands for equality. Any third generation parent can tell you that it is a bad to treat stubborn children as equals. And, according to this article, any third generation Iranian immigrant can tell you it is a very very bad idea to treat the current Iranian government as an equal. Iran is not our equal!
But, I must admit, when I hear older Iranians--and I include people other than those mentioned in the commentary--warn starkly, "Do Not Trust the Iranian Government!" I shutter.
Otto Von Bismarck's quip..."not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian Grenadier"...sums up my view of the Middle East ( although he was referring to the Balkans) The Iranians are a Turkish/Saudi problem. Both these countries have lent clandestine monies and military support to Sunni efforts in Syria, but neither have committed what we call "boots on the ground" type of support. And, in the past, the Saudis have treated American troops as little more than mercenaries, to be hired or traded for oil. So, I am glad Obama, not a Republican, occupies the White House.
The upshot, which seems to be overlooked, is: Sanctions Work! The US has the tools, short of "boots on the ground" to engage these recalcitrant leaders.
If the reports I read in the NYT and other sources are correct, our negotiators are placating Iranian demands for equality. Any third generation parent can tell you that it is a bad to treat stubborn children as equals. And, according to this article, any third generation Iranian immigrant can tell you it is a very very bad idea to treat the current Iranian government as an equal. Iran is not our equal!
9
The average Iranian used to shudder from Sovak torture.
2
Except that this deal, as has often been stated by both sides -- indeed, very clearly by the Iranian regime -- is limited to nuclear enrichment, which will provide for the free flow of money and resources back to an authoritarian and murderous regime that might otherwise have continued to weaken over time. Iran's intransigence has been rewarded by these talks and will crowned by a deal, and the regime will be strengthened. Believing this possible deal is a path toward reconciliation with the West is naive. Listen to the wisdom of your elderrs.
2
If you want to know the wholr truth about how the undemocratic mullahs were installed in Iran, read the book titled "Dar Poshteh Pardahayeh Enghelab" the memoir of Jaffareh Shafiezadeh. Editor Moshiri. Note: there is a fake version edited by Boroujerdi
Aslan and all other related "Iranian-Americans" who should really call themselves lobbies of the "moderate" Rouhani, with 1800 executions on record, are perhaps the only Iranian-Americans that can so easily travel back and forth.
The reality though is that they do not speak the opinion and wishes of the Iranian people that are fed up with the mullahs and want regime change more than nuclear energy. The sanctions imposed on the Iranian regime is focused on the IRGC and its the mullahs in Iran that will benefit from it.
Aslan has tried his best to misinform the American public about with the ordinary Iranians want, but he fails on that since it is the regime change that Iranians want not more of the criminal mullahs.
The reality though is that they do not speak the opinion and wishes of the Iranian people that are fed up with the mullahs and want regime change more than nuclear energy. The sanctions imposed on the Iranian regime is focused on the IRGC and its the mullahs in Iran that will benefit from it.
Aslan has tried his best to misinform the American public about with the ordinary Iranians want, but he fails on that since it is the regime change that Iranians want not more of the criminal mullahs.
1
I only add my voice in support of Mr Aslan's conclusion as a "vote" that this article is important to me. Yes, negotiate.
4
An excellent op-ed, and it seems to mirror what I hear from the Iranians I know in the US. But a few cautionary points. Yes, the younger generation in general does not support the Supreme Leader's ways and are generally well educated and resistant to mullah rule...to a point. Surprisingly, the Iranian public has a better opinion of the US than most states in the region. And yes, engagement generally is preferable to isolation. But Quds and the IRGC are extremely powerful, and the military is loyal to the Ayatollahs. Iran is responsible for hundreds of dead Americans in Iraq due to its support of Shia militias, as well as the rise/success of ISIS in Iraq due to pushing Maliki to marginalize the Sunnis and create a politicized, sectarian Iraqi military. And nukes in the Iranian government's hands would be a severe threat to US security and destabilize the region even worse than it is now. So I'm all for trying to change Iran's behavior, and engagement is probably the best way. But not at the expense of allowing Iran to get nuclear weapons. If we are unable to get the inspections we need, then we must walk away and keep the pressure on Tehran.
3
If these young Iranians support Israel's right to exist, I am all for engagement with Iran. But something tells me they will come up with excuses to do otherwise, just like the mullahs do. Prove you're a good neighbor first before you shake hands.
4
Iranian-Americans, the ones with fealty to the Shah, Savak, and the CIA, have betrayed Iranian society, and agitate to betray America, too, with their rage against Iranian self-determination, which has infected Americans, who have no business interfering in the domestic affairs of Iran. These Iranians fled Iran because the Shah's brutal foreign backed dictatorship ended, as well as their privileges; they are not typical immigrants yearning to be free, but yearning to reestablish their rule through American military might. American should reject these Iranian traitors entreaties to undermine Iranian representative democracy.
5
Prof. Aslan's academic specialty of creative writing is in full view in this OpEd piece but his effort falls well short of being at all convincing. While he may actually "believe" that relieved of the burden of sanctions, Iran's hardline theocratic rulers will suddenly pay attention to a public they have largely disenfranchised, there is no reason to share that feeling and much to reject it. After all, their current strategy will have freed up tens of billions of dollars to subsidize their ill-concealed imperial ambitions, what is their incentive to change? The U.S. refused to support the 2009 Green Revolution for fear of offending the ayatollahs. Does Aslan really believe that the Iranian regime will tolerate such dissent in the future? Does he really believe that the U.S. will openly support such peaceful attempts at establishing real democracy in the future? We had to pay ransom for the release of the three hikers and cannot even get Iran as a "goodwill gesture" to release the several imprisoned U.S. citizens. Contrast that pliant attitude toward Iran with our demands that Israel release terrorists convicted of murdering its civilians and that tells you all you need to know about the Ayatollahs' lack of respect and fear of the U.S.
12
The part of the equation that you left out is the population in Iran, "(particularly the 60 percent of the population that is under the age of 30)", that mirror your younger sister. Where do they fall on the geopolitical spectrum? After all, they are the future.
3
Persian civilizations is one of the greatest and illuminated ever. Iran would regain its past glory in the world of Academia, Arts and other fields once the shackles of religious hegemony are broken and liberal free thinking is allowed and encouraged again. Since 1979 about a couple of well educated Iranians lost out on opportunities to learn and grow thanks to the theological regime. Now, might be a great opportunity for the current regime to realize its folly and allow a Democratic and Liberal rule.
2
I appreciate reading about the complexities of the Iranian - US relationship from your deep & thoughtful perspective, Mr. Aslan. I've met quite a few Iranian immigrants who impressed me with their intelligence, cosmopolitan grasp of global events, well mannered aplomb, sensitive spirituality & business savvy. It seems to be a cultural archetype to be keenly aware of how to balance relationships without offending others, thus the reason for the high degree of success in Los Angeles.
One distinguished Iranian American man in his 50's with a successful business shared that the Iranian government post-Shah keeps a dossier on all Iranian ex-pats who speak out critically against the government. Although I'm sure that the US engages in this as well, it gave me a clue as to how complex the Iranian secret police capability is post US CIA sponsored SAVAK. There has been news about the covert officers of Iran's Ministry of Intelligence & Security gathering extensive intelligence & building a covert terrorist network in Latin America as well as their well known history of funding counter terrorism in the Middle East.
I can empathize with the elders having lost their homeland after the coup & their resulting distrust & enmity. Similar to the WWII war veterans in the US who fought against Japan & the changing tide for their children & children's children. I hope for the sake of the Iranian people as well as my Iranian friends & the world, that the negotiations are highly successful.
One distinguished Iranian American man in his 50's with a successful business shared that the Iranian government post-Shah keeps a dossier on all Iranian ex-pats who speak out critically against the government. Although I'm sure that the US engages in this as well, it gave me a clue as to how complex the Iranian secret police capability is post US CIA sponsored SAVAK. There has been news about the covert officers of Iran's Ministry of Intelligence & Security gathering extensive intelligence & building a covert terrorist network in Latin America as well as their well known history of funding counter terrorism in the Middle East.
I can empathize with the elders having lost their homeland after the coup & their resulting distrust & enmity. Similar to the WWII war veterans in the US who fought against Japan & the changing tide for their children & children's children. I hope for the sake of the Iranian people as well as my Iranian friends & the world, that the negotiations are highly successful.
6
An excellent article, because it explicitly states the alternative to the nuclear deal that many of the opponents of the deal want: an invasion of Iran by the U.S., followed by regime change. However, following our disastrous attempt at regime change in Iraq, the muddled situation we left behind in Afghanistan, and the myriad of commentators who pointed out that any regime change would require a U.S. presence for decades, I for one think that regime change is not even on the table. The nuclear deal may not be a "good deal," but unless someone can come up with a realistic alternative, either that or maintaining the status quo are is the only options.The remaining question is which of the two stands a better chance of changing Iran's behavior.
6
Here is a typical unfair criticism of Iranian ex-pats, from another commenter:
"If the Aslan family was on the side of the Shah then their ignorant historical bias is understandable. Like the Cubans who were behind Bautista or the Chinese who favored Kaishek."
When a government is overthrown, the deposed leader's close associates will be well-advised to pack a suitcase and get out ASAP, and most do (or at least try to). But that group usually is a very small portion of those who leave. Most who leave simply think things are going to be worse under the new government, and they want something better for their family; in many cases, as Mr. Aslan points out here, they think their exile will be short-lived, that the usurpers will soon be tossed out and things will go back to normal. Others -- many -- will have had no close association with the deposed government, or even no association whatsoever with it, but they predict (usually correctly) that the new government and its supporters will accuse them of a close association anyway. Often, relative success under the old government is all that's required to get one's name on the suspect list.
Over the years, I've met many people whose families left Iran when the Shah was deposed, or who left China for Taiwan when the Communists took over in 1949, or left Cuba after Castro took power in 1959. Maybe they've all hidden a darker truth really well, but my impression is that none of them, or their families, had been guilty of anything.
"If the Aslan family was on the side of the Shah then their ignorant historical bias is understandable. Like the Cubans who were behind Bautista or the Chinese who favored Kaishek."
When a government is overthrown, the deposed leader's close associates will be well-advised to pack a suitcase and get out ASAP, and most do (or at least try to). But that group usually is a very small portion of those who leave. Most who leave simply think things are going to be worse under the new government, and they want something better for their family; in many cases, as Mr. Aslan points out here, they think their exile will be short-lived, that the usurpers will soon be tossed out and things will go back to normal. Others -- many -- will have had no close association with the deposed government, or even no association whatsoever with it, but they predict (usually correctly) that the new government and its supporters will accuse them of a close association anyway. Often, relative success under the old government is all that's required to get one's name on the suspect list.
Over the years, I've met many people whose families left Iran when the Shah was deposed, or who left China for Taiwan when the Communists took over in 1949, or left Cuba after Castro took power in 1959. Maybe they've all hidden a darker truth really well, but my impression is that none of them, or their families, had been guilty of anything.
3
Good point. Perhaps another perk for those Iranians who left is that they are not subject to US sanctions and to the consequent economic grief.
Israel is able to have lots of nuclear weapons without being subject to US sanctions. But Iran does not have that luxury.
I am not denying that religious dogmatism is also a part of the reason why many Iranians left. But NOW, the sanctions are also a big factor in why Iran may not be the most comfortable place to live in. Don't blame it ALL on the Mullahs.
Israel is able to have lots of nuclear weapons without being subject to US sanctions. But Iran does not have that luxury.
I am not denying that religious dogmatism is also a part of the reason why many Iranians left. But NOW, the sanctions are also a big factor in why Iran may not be the most comfortable place to live in. Don't blame it ALL on the Mullahs.
1
For those interested in knowing what the younger generation in Iran think about the Vienna accords and other matters, I have filed a report on my recent trip to Iran that can be found at
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/the-iranian-postrevolutio...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/the-iranian-postrevolutio...
4
Thanks for your Huffington post piece. Just read it, and suggest others do -- especially those readers who think they know all they need to know about Iran.
1
There are two other Huffington Post pieces deriving from my trip, with a third on its way. For those interested, here are the URLs
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/despite-misgivings-irania...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/in-iran-today-little-chan...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/despite-misgivings-irania...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-o-beeman/in-iran-today-little-chan...
1
I just returned from my 5th trip to Iran, leading cultural travel tours. Everywhere, and I mean everywhere we went, when Iranians realized we were Americans all they did, , short of a hug, was shout "Welcome..Welcome", cross ther fingers....and say "America/Iran ..friends!" This the reaction from the older people, the younger ones took out their iphones and wanted to take a selfie with us.
Once the " Made in China "hangtags on clothing..subways,buildings ad infintium are replaced by "Made in America"..why would either of us want this destroyed?
Once the " Made in China "hangtags on clothing..subways,buildings ad infintium are replaced by "Made in America"..why would either of us want this destroyed?
7
We should all keep in mind that most of the old Iranians in LA (and there are many in other parts of the US, though LA certainly is the largest community) came here for the same reason many Cubans left when Castro took over: things had been going relatively well for them under the Shah, and they knew that wouldn't continue. Personally, I think it's probably inappropriate in both places to conclude from a family's departure that the father was some henchman of the deposed leader who could no longer look forward to hanging political opponents by their thumbs. I think most "departers" in both groups were just decent people who nonetheless predicted they'd be mistreated if they stayed because they'd be (usually wrongfully) accused of a close association with the deposed government.
That said, my impression is that the departed Iranians really wish the Shah had never been deposed; life for them was a lot better when he was in power. A few years back, when he died, various websites were set up, or repurposed temporarily, to enable Iranian ex-pats to express their sympathy to his grieving widow. I visited many of those websites, and was amazed at how often and how quickly expressions of sympathy turned into wistful remembrances of the "good old days" and expressions of bitter hatred for everyone that had had anything to do with bringing those good old days to an end.
As a result, I take with a very large grain of salt anything that's said or written by Iranian ex-pats.
That said, my impression is that the departed Iranians really wish the Shah had never been deposed; life for them was a lot better when he was in power. A few years back, when he died, various websites were set up, or repurposed temporarily, to enable Iranian ex-pats to express their sympathy to his grieving widow. I visited many of those websites, and was amazed at how often and how quickly expressions of sympathy turned into wistful remembrances of the "good old days" and expressions of bitter hatred for everyone that had had anything to do with bringing those good old days to an end.
As a result, I take with a very large grain of salt anything that's said or written by Iranian ex-pats.
7
How could you say that life if better now for the majority of Iranians than it was before? Maybe better if you are associated with Revolutionary Guard and have made millions or more from the current political situation.
kudos to Aslan. Listen to young Iranians, most of whom (both in and out of the country) want Iran to rejoin the global community. They are very smart, very tech-savvy, very ready to lift Iran out of its isolation. Many of the world's most successful companies have Iranian-American CEOs -- let's drown out the drivel of Cotton and the like with that fact. As Churchill said, it is always better to jaw, jaw, jaw than to war, war, war. Engagement is the path forward. It will not be simple or fast...but it is the way to go!
22
Without being political I want to mention some facts. Women outnumber men in Iranian universities. The first Islamic women to climb Mount Everest were Iranian. And the proportion of women among movie directors is higher in Iran than in the US.
No doubt oppression is there in Iran, but sometimes what the West sees as oppression may merely be the fact that some civilization is about as conservative as the US itself was in the 1950s.
Do other civilizations want abortion on demand, high rates of divorce and high rates of single parent households? Maybe they do not. But since liberals have cleverly managed to identify "progress" with liberalism, it is hard to escape the idea that to live in the 21st century you must accept liberal values.
Maybe there is another way to "go forward" without liberal values. Maybe there can be country of highly educated pro-life women and stable marriages.
To preserve their own values, civilizations sometimes find it necessary to be dogmatic. But perhaps another, more open way will be found for Iran (or India or Russia) to be progressive without accepting US style liberalism.
No doubt oppression is there in Iran, but sometimes what the West sees as oppression may merely be the fact that some civilization is about as conservative as the US itself was in the 1950s.
Do other civilizations want abortion on demand, high rates of divorce and high rates of single parent households? Maybe they do not. But since liberals have cleverly managed to identify "progress" with liberalism, it is hard to escape the idea that to live in the 21st century you must accept liberal values.
Maybe there is another way to "go forward" without liberal values. Maybe there can be country of highly educated pro-life women and stable marriages.
To preserve their own values, civilizations sometimes find it necessary to be dogmatic. But perhaps another, more open way will be found for Iran (or India or Russia) to be progressive without accepting US style liberalism.
3
What is ironic is that while Republicans aremore conservative than Democrats paradoxically, it is the Republicans who are far tougher than the Democrats on conservatism among non-Christians.
Thus it is McCain and not Obama who sings the song "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."
Obama by contrast sings "Amazing grace" whose author John Newton, also ironically, was a slave owner.
Thus it is McCain and not Obama who sings the song "Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran."
Obama by contrast sings "Amazing grace" whose author John Newton, also ironically, was a slave owner.
To your Aunt learn English! To your sister, move to Iran and stay there. Sorry to be so blunt but I am really tired of individuals from other countries immigrating here and then refusing to assimilate and yearning for the US to fix their home country or wishing that the US would be, well, more Iranian!
The US is NOT PERFECT by any stretch but so many come here and ignore the fact that they live in the US. They refuse to learn English and then insist we translate everything and complaint when we dont. They insist that the US change to fit their view of the world and follow their rules to avoid offense. (Of course not all immigrants behave this way but enough to to make it an issue.)
Unfortunately for us we have some politicians who would love to be more like Iran in many ways. That's bad for humans.
I welcome the author's family and I wish they welcomed us.
The US is NOT PERFECT by any stretch but so many come here and ignore the fact that they live in the US. They refuse to learn English and then insist we translate everything and complaint when we dont. They insist that the US change to fit their view of the world and follow their rules to avoid offense. (Of course not all immigrants behave this way but enough to to make it an issue.)
Unfortunately for us we have some politicians who would love to be more like Iran in many ways. That's bad for humans.
I welcome the author's family and I wish they welcomed us.
3
A commenter points out, understandably:
"It's rather difficult to "engage" a government whose motto is "death to America.""
Fair point. Although that's not really the government's motto, "Death to America" seems to be the standard chant at most Tehran rallies. If it's any consolation, Iranian protesters tend to say "Death to ...." all sorts of places, people and things. You need not look too hard, for example, to find articles reporting chants of "Death to Khameini" and reports of protesters burning and stomping posters of Khameini in the street. (See, for example, a Dec. 27, 2009 article by the Times' Robert Worth, or a March 2010 article in the Christian Science Monitor).
Some will assure us that those protesters must have been shot or otherwise punished, but I suggest looking a little further. You'll find that wasn't the case at all -- even though, if I were doing such a thing, I'd be sure at least to cover my face so I couldn't be easily identified; the "Death to Khameini" chanters never seem to bother.
In short, I don't take the "Death to America" chants very seriously. It's not a government motto, Iranian protesters tend to chant "Death to ..." all sorts of things, the government has never threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and so on and so on and so on. Anyone who takes the time to look into these things quickly learns such accusations are just a bunch of hype put out there by those who hate Iran.
"It's rather difficult to "engage" a government whose motto is "death to America.""
Fair point. Although that's not really the government's motto, "Death to America" seems to be the standard chant at most Tehran rallies. If it's any consolation, Iranian protesters tend to say "Death to ...." all sorts of places, people and things. You need not look too hard, for example, to find articles reporting chants of "Death to Khameini" and reports of protesters burning and stomping posters of Khameini in the street. (See, for example, a Dec. 27, 2009 article by the Times' Robert Worth, or a March 2010 article in the Christian Science Monitor).
Some will assure us that those protesters must have been shot or otherwise punished, but I suggest looking a little further. You'll find that wasn't the case at all -- even though, if I were doing such a thing, I'd be sure at least to cover my face so I couldn't be easily identified; the "Death to Khameini" chanters never seem to bother.
In short, I don't take the "Death to America" chants very seriously. It's not a government motto, Iranian protesters tend to chant "Death to ..." all sorts of things, the government has never threatened to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, and so on and so on and so on. Anyone who takes the time to look into these things quickly learns such accusations are just a bunch of hype put out there by those who hate Iran.
3
Thanks to Reza Aslan for an accurate portrayal of the stark generational differences in the Iranian community in the United States.
I just returned from a 3 week tour of provincial capitals in Iran, where I interviewed hundreds of ordinary citizens (I speak fluent Persian). For those who have not been to Iran for more than 30 years, there are many surprises in store. Iran is not the same place they left. Iran is a modern, prosperous nation with 3% GDP growth last year and every possible modern amenity available. There is poverty, but Iran's 12% official poverty rate as assessed by international agencies is below that of the United States, Australia and Japan. Unemployment is high among university graduates--but there were 4 million of them last year--5% of the entire population, the majority of whom were women.
Yes, there are still problems with human rights, but the younger post-Revolutionary generation in Iran is increasingly defiant of government controls, and the press is pushing hard on Iranian officials. Above all the government understood that the revolts in 2009 were a warning of internal dissatisfaction with intrusive government controls. Iranians know that many arrests are the result of extreme paranoia on the part of the government that the United States or Israel is trying to overthrow them--just as Aslan's older Tehrangeles denizens are urging.
The young Iranian generation knows that the accords will improve their lives, and are hopeful for their success.
I just returned from a 3 week tour of provincial capitals in Iran, where I interviewed hundreds of ordinary citizens (I speak fluent Persian). For those who have not been to Iran for more than 30 years, there are many surprises in store. Iran is not the same place they left. Iran is a modern, prosperous nation with 3% GDP growth last year and every possible modern amenity available. There is poverty, but Iran's 12% official poverty rate as assessed by international agencies is below that of the United States, Australia and Japan. Unemployment is high among university graduates--but there were 4 million of them last year--5% of the entire population, the majority of whom were women.
Yes, there are still problems with human rights, but the younger post-Revolutionary generation in Iran is increasingly defiant of government controls, and the press is pushing hard on Iranian officials. Above all the government understood that the revolts in 2009 were a warning of internal dissatisfaction with intrusive government controls. Iranians know that many arrests are the result of extreme paranoia on the part of the government that the United States or Israel is trying to overthrow them--just as Aslan's older Tehrangeles denizens are urging.
The young Iranian generation knows that the accords will improve their lives, and are hopeful for their success.
55
@ William Beeman - William B, I refer to you (not by name) in my main comment praising Reza and am delighted to read what you have written and to learn that you have been spending time in Iran.
As for poverty, the more I have learned about Iran, the more I think it has so much in common with the USA but I will not count the ways. If you can look at the reply to my main comment from a reader who is one of those who would really like to see Israel bomb Iran (see Verified AACNY - I think that is right - who does not mince words. He hopes to see the bombing start very soon.)
As for poverty, the more I have learned about Iran, the more I think it has so much in common with the USA but I will not count the ways. If you can look at the reply to my main comment from a reader who is one of those who would really like to see Israel bomb Iran (see Verified AACNY - I think that is right - who does not mince words. He hopes to see the bombing start very soon.)
Another apologist of the despotic mullahs' regime. The mullahs protect the rights of foreign visitors that their own citizen, for example foreign women are allowed into sport stadiums and not their own nationals. In many aspects Mullahs' regime is very similar to the Persian Gulf Sheikhdoms and Saudi Arabia regimes.
1
But women still cannot go to all sports evens and religious police still rules. I'm sorry but The Iranian people aren't the problem their leaders are and they are unreconstructed theocrats! Theocrats no matter what their religion are hazardous to humans.
3
So you have one group of people who grew up in a place, know its culture and politics.
You have another group of people who have never visited this place, and were raised in America, a country so uniquely isolated in its outlook that when polled a majority of high school students did not even know their next door neighbours, Canada, are a democracy.
But if the White House had to turn to Reza Aslan's sister or his mother for advice, clearly they would ask his sister.
Which explains every failure in American foreign policy.
You have another group of people who have never visited this place, and were raised in America, a country so uniquely isolated in its outlook that when polled a majority of high school students did not even know their next door neighbours, Canada, are a democracy.
But if the White House had to turn to Reza Aslan's sister or his mother for advice, clearly they would ask his sister.
Which explains every failure in American foreign policy.
10
Tehrangeles? Interesting word. I was operated successfully by one of them in 2013 (a reconstructive but not a cosmetic surgery) and I am very grateful for his help.
Does he follow the current negotiations? I have no idea. It would be a good idea to reach some reasonable compromise on the issue, independently on the opinions expressed by some other nations in the area.
Does he follow the current negotiations? I have no idea. It would be a good idea to reach some reasonable compromise on the issue, independently on the opinions expressed by some other nations in the area.
3
Wise man Professor Aslan. Without dialogue, there is no possibility of normalised relations, no possibility of more positive outcomes (trade, educational exchange, etc) but a definite possibility that warmongers like tom cotton and lynsey graham will get their way.
The principle is simple and well understood by those who practice diplomacy or geopolitcal relations: better they are inside the tent peeing out, than outside the tent peeing in.
The principle is simple and well understood by those who practice diplomacy or geopolitcal relations: better they are inside the tent peeing out, than outside the tent peeing in.
2
The generational divide Mr. Aslan describes makes the large Iranian community in southern California sound very much like the large Cuban community in southern Florida.
11
Your group needs to assimiliate, which is what good immigrants have done for years...this is not Iran...............................
6
@ Barb Tennant - I know many Iranians here in Sweden and they are well assimilated while maintaining their language and elements of Iranian culture. Unfortunately, I never had the chance to know any Iranians when I lived in the US.
Perhaps you do not understand that unlike garden variety Americans, my family for example, Iranians and many others speak two, three, four languages. Unfortunately, I only speak two.
Larry
Perhaps you do not understand that unlike garden variety Americans, my family for example, Iranians and many others speak two, three, four languages. Unfortunately, I only speak two.
Larry
Since 1953 coup and the overthrow of democratically elected government in Iran under the leadership of Mossadegh, by the foreign powers, the political system in Iran has been damaged and in disarray. However Iran was in the path to recovery in 1979, when Mullahs repeated the same. Other countries in which the foreign powers have installed an undemocratic regime, such as in Iran and Chile, the damaging effect to the political system can still be seen. In Iranians today need a political system, and government, in which there is the rule-of-Law, and the respect of the rights of citizens. Both of these are non-existent today in the mullahs' regime, since it is not a democratically elected regime.
5
What nuclear deal? The last time I looked the June deadline had come, and gone, and there is still no sign of any nuclear deal.
The Iranians appear to insist there remain all kinds of places where nuclear weapons work can be conducted in Iran which will be off limits to nuclear inspectors, and that all sanctions currently in place must be lifted immediately after the signing. That's not a deal, that's a capitulation.
The only thing that will accomplish is a reinvigoration of the Supreme Leader and the Theocratic State, along with its apocalyptic theology.
The Iranians appear to insist there remain all kinds of places where nuclear weapons work can be conducted in Iran which will be off limits to nuclear inspectors, and that all sanctions currently in place must be lifted immediately after the signing. That's not a deal, that's a capitulation.
The only thing that will accomplish is a reinvigoration of the Supreme Leader and the Theocratic State, along with its apocalyptic theology.
4
60% of the Iranian population is 30 and under, westernized and totally out of sync with the despicable mullahs. Right now they are cruelly suppressed, their lives tightly controlled by these aging, autocratic leaders, still living in the past. This generation has not known the atrocities of that cruel Despot, the Shah whom WE helped install, bringing down a democratic government. So let's forget these mullahs who grabbed leadership on the rebound. Their generation is will die out in the very near future. The new generation will then be set free from their vice grip. So let's be looking at the near future and engage Iran. Bombing Iran is no answer because Nature will surely take it's course. Let's not start a war on a new front because that will only alienate the young generation. Remove the sanctions and let the young get opportunities. Iran is a rich country and the only stable one. Let's not have a ' Repeat Iraq. 'The sanctions are basically hurting the future leaders. Let these negotiations be about the future, a future with the change of guard.
11
Not exactly but similar to Turkey. Like the mullas thr AKP religious dictotaria is in charge. AKP is a USA design. They will be thete as long as they serve USA. That means the economy never reaching full potential, conflicts with neighbours, american-british privitizstion of all sectors.. the young genetation is compleetly scriptt off the national values. I belive Iran should be cautios of "usa based "liberation"" of the country. Once agsin you are a friens of usa as long as you serve goals of USA. Otherwise, mulla based regimes will take you back 1000 years in the history...
Well written oped, Mr. Aslan.
It is time to put aside the clouds of history (some of it murder and torture directed against people like me) and give the Obama doctrine a chance. Let's have the courage to go beyond the failed "logic" of war. Peace, trade, cooperation and mutual respect....
And that's the thoughts of another Iranian expat.
It is time to put aside the clouds of history (some of it murder and torture directed against people like me) and give the Obama doctrine a chance. Let's have the courage to go beyond the failed "logic" of war. Peace, trade, cooperation and mutual respect....
And that's the thoughts of another Iranian expat.
22
Trust, but verify. Without that, no deal.
2
"Success will empower moderates" Not. As long as the Revolutionary Guard alone has the guns, and is willing to shoot and torture peaceful protesters, evil will continue to reign.
7
Ever since I heard you speak at the St. Martin's University and where I bought your book which you signed for me I have followed your career. I agree that the deal now under way with Iran should be given a try. I have long argued against excessive isolation for in the end analysis too much isolation tends to make the one isolated dangerous. Nations like molecules need to be in a combination or unity in order to function well. As times change nations and people must also change.
Mr. Aslan,
I just had a chance to read your Bio and summaries of your Books, Bravo!
FOR those Americans or Iranian-Americans who want to Discover, re-Discover or Connect with Iran, Columbia University has a Phenomenal Project called: "Encyclopedia Iranica", the most comprehensive undertaking to unearth Iran's Glorious Civilization.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/pages/about
AND for those of us such as yours truly who are interested in "Anthropology & Archeology", Iran is the Epicenter of such activities as unlike the House of Saud and the ISIS who are bent on erasing Human History off the Face of the Earth, Iranians not only have preserved their National Heritage "no matter who is in charge" but also keep discovering more ancient sites as we speak going back 6000 years.
I just had a chance to read your Bio and summaries of your Books, Bravo!
FOR those Americans or Iranian-Americans who want to Discover, re-Discover or Connect with Iran, Columbia University has a Phenomenal Project called: "Encyclopedia Iranica", the most comprehensive undertaking to unearth Iran's Glorious Civilization.
http://www.iranicaonline.org/pages/about
AND for those of us such as yours truly who are interested in "Anthropology & Archeology", Iran is the Epicenter of such activities as unlike the House of Saud and the ISIS who are bent on erasing Human History off the Face of the Earth, Iranians not only have preserved their National Heritage "no matter who is in charge" but also keep discovering more ancient sites as we speak going back 6000 years.
4
Not our job to make war on Iran. Our job is to stand for peace with Iran. Internal Iranian politics is a matter for Iranians.
8
Living in South Florida, I found this to be quite an interesting Op-Ed. But, I am considering it in a different context than it is written.
As an Anglo who has lived 30 miles north of Miami for many years, I would suggest that I could make just a few changes--Cuba for Iran, Castros for Mullahs, Cuban-American for Iranian-American, and the column would similarly be quite apropos for the Miami Herald.
The younger generation--in both cases--respects the hardships that their elders went through; but, as usual, time--and the miles--heals. Today’s generations seem to realize that closing ones eyes won’t help their countrymen back home, but engagement will. The younger generations tend to be more progressive and more open to change.
Thanks for a great article.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
As an Anglo who has lived 30 miles north of Miami for many years, I would suggest that I could make just a few changes--Cuba for Iran, Castros for Mullahs, Cuban-American for Iranian-American, and the column would similarly be quite apropos for the Miami Herald.
The younger generation--in both cases--respects the hardships that their elders went through; but, as usual, time--and the miles--heals. Today’s generations seem to realize that closing ones eyes won’t help their countrymen back home, but engagement will. The younger generations tend to be more progressive and more open to change.
Thanks for a great article.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
13
It's rather difficult to "engage" a government whose motto is "death to America".
10
The "death to America" sloganeering is engineered by right-wing zealots. The people participating in these demonstrations are called "sandwich demonstrators." They are rounded up, chant and then are given a sandwich.
This in no way represents the sentiment of the general Iranian population, who universally express affection for Americans. I just returned from Iran and can bear witness to this.
I also can attest that the wall murals attacking the United States have been painted over with decorative motifs. It is clear that the hostile rhetoric of the Ahmadinejad era (he is no longer President) has melted away.
This in no way represents the sentiment of the general Iranian population, who universally express affection for Americans. I just returned from Iran and can bear witness to this.
I also can attest that the wall murals attacking the United States have been painted over with decorative motifs. It is clear that the hostile rhetoric of the Ahmadinejad era (he is no longer President) has melted away.
1
Iran did not attack the US on 9-11. Our former president rewarded the Iranians with weapons after theyu held Americans hostage. Yet we have placed an economic embargo on Iran similar to the embargo US placed on Japan before it attacked the US at Pearl harbor.Iran is an ally in combatting ISIL.
Israel is a nuclear power protected by the US. If Israel attacked Iran we would surely get dragged into the fray with possible nuclear attack by Israel or even Russia who is an ally of Iran. All of these factors make P5+1 negotiations a matter of US security. Political leanings of Iranian Americans are no more important than those of Israeli Americans or American Jews. US security is the issue.
Israel is a nuclear power protected by the US. If Israel attacked Iran we would surely get dragged into the fray with possible nuclear attack by Israel or even Russia who is an ally of Iran. All of these factors make P5+1 negotiations a matter of US security. Political leanings of Iranian Americans are no more important than those of Israeli Americans or American Jews. US security is the issue.
3
WISHFUL THINKING I admire Reza Aslan's hope that an accord will be reached in Vienna so that the youthful generation will be empowered to provide moderation in the dynamics of Iran's internal politics. Except for two things: While the 60% of the population under the age of 30 may have strong feelings about Iran's rejoining the community of nations, they hold neither religious power nor weapons. In the same way that Khamenei is publicly scuttling the accord with the west (though let's hope that his public rhetoric is balanced by a willingness to reach an accord), he or his successor will quickly put down any move toward opening Iran to the world and modernizing the society. I am also apprehensive about the young sister's romantic fascination about adherence to strict religious practices, imagining that there is some sort of magical place of wonderment in today's Iran. That'd be nice, but it's not how things are on the ground. The military that support the mullahs show no interest in relinquishing any power. And as to the aspirations of Iran's youth, I have to look at the sorry wreckage in the Middle East that has followed the unfulfilled hope of the Arab Spring. Iran has a hand in much of the violence there. So we have a clear picture of what's going to happen in Iran if any group shows publicly its intention to moderate the political process. So now it's just a matter of holding our collective breath and hoping for an accord. It's better than nothing. Maybe.
3
Please do not believe the cant in the press that Ayatollah Khamene'i is "scuttling" the Vienna accords. Iran is following the Lausanne framework that calls on it to adopt the "Additional Protocols" to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), which allows for increased latitude in inspections, but only with the permission of the state being inspected.
It is the United States who is pressing for inspections beyond the framework specifications. Since Iran's nuclear industry is identical to that of Japan, Argentina, and 17 other non-nuclear-weapons states, one can only conclude (as the Iranians have) that Iran is being singularly targeted not for what they are doing in the nuclear field, but merely because they are Iran.
The Treaty obligations incumbent on the United States, Iran and 188 other nations are paramount in these negotiations. The United States seems to think that it can compel Iran to give up its treaty rights. But then, what happens to the other 189 signatories to the (NPT)? Treaties mean something--except when the United States decides to ignore them!
It is the United States who is pressing for inspections beyond the framework specifications. Since Iran's nuclear industry is identical to that of Japan, Argentina, and 17 other non-nuclear-weapons states, one can only conclude (as the Iranians have) that Iran is being singularly targeted not for what they are doing in the nuclear field, but merely because they are Iran.
The Treaty obligations incumbent on the United States, Iran and 188 other nations are paramount in these negotiations. The United States seems to think that it can compel Iran to give up its treaty rights. But then, what happens to the other 189 signatories to the (NPT)? Treaties mean something--except when the United States decides to ignore them!
1
So, "I hate you for saving my life!" Is that it? I would welcome the return to Iran for the older people who have never assimilated. For the rest, happy to have you!
9
Iranian history did not begin in 1979 with the overthrow of the Shah of Iran. Persian history stretches back 2500 years as a major human cultural milestone.
The Shah of Iran was a royal dictator installed in power by an American and British coup in 1953 against a democratic Iranian government at the behest of British Petroleum. Getting rid of the tyrant was a victory for humanity. But America chose to renew it's 60 + overt and covert regime change war against Iran by supporting Saddam Hussein and Iraq in a long bloody war against Iran, shooting down a civilian Iranian airplane, invading and occupying Iran's neighbors Afghanistan and Iraq while making drone cyber murder war against Iran. America has ignored diplomacy and peace.
If the Aslan family was on the side of the Shah then their ignorant historical bias is understandable. Like the Cubans who were behind Bautista or the Chinese who favored Kaishek. Moreover, unlike Israel, India and Pakistan, Iran is a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has no nuclear weapons. While only 2% of Americans are Jews about 40 % of the world's 16 million Jews live in America with another 40% living in Israel.
This proposed deal with Shia Muslim Persian Iran is in accord with American values and in the best interests of America. That followers of the Shah, fossil fuel oligarchy and Zionist Jewish Israeli occupation, blockade/siege and exile may not agree only supports and serves foreign alien values and interests.
The Shah of Iran was a royal dictator installed in power by an American and British coup in 1953 against a democratic Iranian government at the behest of British Petroleum. Getting rid of the tyrant was a victory for humanity. But America chose to renew it's 60 + overt and covert regime change war against Iran by supporting Saddam Hussein and Iraq in a long bloody war against Iran, shooting down a civilian Iranian airplane, invading and occupying Iran's neighbors Afghanistan and Iraq while making drone cyber murder war against Iran. America has ignored diplomacy and peace.
If the Aslan family was on the side of the Shah then their ignorant historical bias is understandable. Like the Cubans who were behind Bautista or the Chinese who favored Kaishek. Moreover, unlike Israel, India and Pakistan, Iran is a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has no nuclear weapons. While only 2% of Americans are Jews about 40 % of the world's 16 million Jews live in America with another 40% living in Israel.
This proposed deal with Shia Muslim Persian Iran is in accord with American values and in the best interests of America. That followers of the Shah, fossil fuel oligarchy and Zionist Jewish Israeli occupation, blockade/siege and exile may not agree only supports and serves foreign alien values and interests.
10
@ blackmamba - black I just submitted a reply to a reader commenting on my main comment, a reply in which I listed exactly the same events you list. As I have noted before, all these readers are so ill informed about USA and Iran that we have to try to teach them a bit.
One note about the phrase "ignorant bias". I assume you meant one faction of the Aslan family. Among my Iranian friends there are those who appreciated the Shah's efforts to "westernize" Iran even though they are fully aware of the Shah's major failings.
Larry
One note about the phrase "ignorant bias". I assume you meant one faction of the Aslan family. Among my Iranian friends there are those who appreciated the Shah's efforts to "westernize" Iran even though they are fully aware of the Shah's major failings.
Larry
1
Of course Delshad considers himself a Persian Jew, not an Iranian. The West LA community is fractured both by age, religion, and ethnicity. Iran is a current geopolitical mess. Persia is a mythic wonderland that was a fount of tolerance for 2,700 years. Those who ache for grandma's Persia dream of a place that existed for millennia, unlike those who dream of Pan Shiaism who hope for something that never was. In my experience there is little support for this place called Iran among Persians.
3
I agree wholeheartedly that diplomacy is our best option with Iran, but as an Iranian-American, I have found that the division of opinions among Iranian-Americans on this issue has more to do with one's background than one's age. Those who have no family left inside of Iran--who have no loved ones who might die as a result of these bombs they so readily want dropped on their ancestral homeland by its former colonizer--seem much more willing to support a military "solution" than a diplomatic one. To say the US has an abysmal record when it comes to interfering with Iranian politics would be charitable at best. Were it not for US imperialism in Iran--for a CIA-sponsored coup aimed at preventing Iran from nationalizing oil so that (God-forbid!) Iranians might benefit from their own natural resources--the 1979 so-called Islamic revolution never would have happened. It was a movement toward independence and a direct reaction to American and British greed and imperialism in the region.
21
Agree, the 1953 coup d'état against the democratically elected socialist Mosaddegh regime, which orchestrated by the American Central Intelligence Agency and the British Secret Intelligence Service and put Reza Pahlavi in power, set up Iran for the successful Islamic revolution led by Ruhollah Khomeini.
1
The accusations that Tehran wants the bomb or is belligerent nation are distasteful ,Iran has some rights under NPT which must be respected. This has nothing to do with the regime, incidentally the strength of the regime is because of its resistance against western and gulf financed attack by Iraq. Had it not been for that war,the regime may wel not have lasted this long. Targeted assassination of scientist undercuts our moral authority.
5
Nuclear non-proliferation is the only leash we have on controlling the known and desired if not lusted for, power of the atom bomb. It's mere presence has invoked terror say nothing of threats to use it.
Therefore to start throwing permission to go ahead and develop one (and it needs to be tested to make sure the engineers and physicists got it right, doesn't it?) is letting Pandora out of her box now that she's at least in it after the terrible cold war fears that ruled the world and economy of so many powerful nations.
Those that have the bomb are, by their knowledge and history of it, required to make sure there are no more states that hold this unique and terrifying weapon. This is the least we can do.
Therefore to start throwing permission to go ahead and develop one (and it needs to be tested to make sure the engineers and physicists got it right, doesn't it?) is letting Pandora out of her box now that she's at least in it after the terrible cold war fears that ruled the world and economy of so many powerful nations.
Those that have the bomb are, by their knowledge and history of it, required to make sure there are no more states that hold this unique and terrifying weapon. This is the least we can do.
Sorry, but you when you have a history of doing evil, you can't be allowed to have nuclear weapons. They are only meant as deterrents, never to be actually used. I'm not sure the Mullahs understand that.
The perspective of the younger generation ignores the Iranian regime on the global stage. The Iranian mullahs have and continue to be the major sponsors of terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and the Houthis. One real concern with any deal is easing sanctions will provide the regime with billions of additional dollars to send to terrorist organizations. The US government estimates that in Iran currently sends $60 - $100 million dollars a year to Hezbollah, an organization responsible for hundreds of American deaths. There is substantial evidence that they were complicit in, if not responsible for, the bombing of the Jewish community center in Argentina.
It is easy to romanticize a place and time that you never experienced. These young people should be listening to what people who actually know what life in Iran under the mullahs is like. A dose of reality might moderate they overactive imaginations.
It is easy to romanticize a place and time that you never experienced. These young people should be listening to what people who actually know what life in Iran under the mullahs is like. A dose of reality might moderate they overactive imaginations.
8
Very similar dynamic, it sounds like, to what goes on here with Cuban Americans and Cuba. Folks my age (c.60), and any surviving parents, who came to the U.S. as children may be socially liberal on a variety of issues, but get them started on negotiating with Raul's government and you'll be subjected to a full scale, no holds barred, frontal assault. Ask their children and it's no big deal. For good or for ill relations with Cuba are finally normalizing. Fortunately, the stakes there are tiny compared to those with Iran.
3
i agree with Dr. Aslan's comments. I believe more than 35 years of sanctions and empty threats have changed nothing inside Iran or the Islamic republics attitude and behavior towards the west. An historic settlement regarding the nuclear issue between the United States and Iran can pave the way for both countries normalizing relations in the near future.. After all, both share the same enemy called ISIS!
One cannot even begin to fathom what the world would be like had there been no sanctions or attempts to control the repressive and cruel actions that very well could have happened if there weren't these attempts at control. Short of a full fledged invasion, there is no other meaningful way to exert influence than through sanctions.
The absolute worst thing that can happen (other than invasion) would be to allow that country's leaders to push forward with a nuclear program. Power plants and medical nuclear technology can be bought or leased, making all this 'research' and investigation completely unnecessary....unless you are working on building a bomb, which fortunately isn't in the catalog of what other countries will sell them.
The absolute worst thing that can happen (other than invasion) would be to allow that country's leaders to push forward with a nuclear program. Power plants and medical nuclear technology can be bought or leased, making all this 'research' and investigation completely unnecessary....unless you are working on building a bomb, which fortunately isn't in the catalog of what other countries will sell them.
Mr. Aslan attempts to rewrite Iranian history the same way that those who fled Cuba attempt to rewrite that of their country.
In neither country did the revolutions overthrow democratic governments. Rather they were both harsh dictatorships to those who dared to believe that people should have basic rights like freedom of speech. The people who fled after the revolutions were largely affluent people who had no problem with the way their governments treated their fellow citizens as long as they made out well financially. We even have Ted Cruz and his fellow Republicans yearn for return of a Cuban government that he says tortured his father.
It's funny that I don't know of any descendents of eastern European Jews who disliked the Soviet Union or Russia under Putin who yearn for a return to the way things were under the Czar.
In neither country did the revolutions overthrow democratic governments. Rather they were both harsh dictatorships to those who dared to believe that people should have basic rights like freedom of speech. The people who fled after the revolutions were largely affluent people who had no problem with the way their governments treated their fellow citizens as long as they made out well financially. We even have Ted Cruz and his fellow Republicans yearn for return of a Cuban government that he says tortured his father.
It's funny that I don't know of any descendents of eastern European Jews who disliked the Soviet Union or Russia under Putin who yearn for a return to the way things were under the Czar.
5
The most significant piece of this article is that " 60 percent of the population ... is under the age of 30". I would guess that the large majority of this young population has little respect for the current government and would welcome the democratization of Iran. I hope it will come with time from inside Iran. But if there is any attack on Iran from the West or from Israel, patriotism and defense of Iran by this population will trump everything else. Any such attack would prove to be self-destructive to the attackers.
45
In nearly every country and all the time, the younger generation pushes for reforms. It is a good bet that the Iranian younger generation will be like every other younger generation has always been everywhere. And it has the strength of unusually large numbers.
A taste of the sweet nectar might be all that is needed to kick start a new attitude in Iran. Give peace and diplomacy a chance.
11
The sanctions were installed because Iran was caught cheating on nuclear weapons development by the UN atomic energy agency. Before that Iran had all the "sweet nectar" that was available to them. They still cheated on their agreement.
Nope -- Iran got their last taste decades ago. Visit Tehran. Should be pretty clear once you get there.
iranian or indians whenever second generation is born outside of their heritage culture or country of orgin --they seem to long for it - they seem to think american cuture or the interaction with the americans - to be plain vanilla, red neckish and ignorant - they long for the rich traditions ,history and culture and thus feel proud of this heritage.. irregardless of hostilties or lack of opportunity faced by their fathers and mothers who came directly from their countries looking for the "good stuff " in the west ,,, i see the cuban people in the same way - i have sense of feeling if cuba was a free enterprising nation miami would empty out in shortorder ..
4
A 200+ year old country and its "traditions" cannot compete with those of a 2000+ year old culture -- of course there is longing. I have longing for it too and I am not Iranian.
1
Let us hope for an agreement between the counties and that this writer's best hopes realized. Iran has long been more culturally aware, its citizens more educated, the genders more equal, in short, a country that is more advanced than others in the region. Iran is certainly a more natural ally and partner of the West than its Persian and Arab peers. We should all wish for an agreement.
17
Reza Aslan, I have been waiting for you to turn up here. We Times commenters who have Iranian friends or even have real knowledge of Iran, perhaps even speak Farsi and have lived there have all done our bit to try to teach commenters about Iran and even about the importance of Iranians living outside Iran. (By the way, the New Yorker article a few years ago was titled Irangeles).
So this is just to thank you for a very fine column. I have seen some of what you describe since my Iranian friends here in Sweden span the generations in your family.
Yet we have, as always, in the comments so far at least one who supports fully future bombing with Israelis in the lead.
Please write more.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
So this is just to thank you for a very fine column. I have seen some of what you describe since my Iranian friends here in Sweden span the generations in your family.
Yet we have, as always, in the comments so far at least one who supports fully future bombing with Israelis in the lead.
Please write more.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
17
Israel is a democracy and our ally...iran is our enemy
why don't these LA Iranians fight to win back their old country instead of just talking about it?
why don't these LA Iranians fight to win back their old country instead of just talking about it?
1
@ barb tennant - In what sense is Iran "our" enemy. Iran has never attacked the USA but the USA has "attacked" Iran in several ways.
Perhaps the most important way is that democratic Iran had an election that led to Mohammed Mossadegh being chosen. So what did democratic USA do? With the help of the CIA Mossadegh was deposed and went into exile. Then during the Iraq-Iran war, started by Iraq, not Iran, the USA supported Saddam Hussein - remember him - in waging chemical warfare against Kurds in Halabja and elsewhere and against Iranians. Then perhaps you have forgotten that the USA attacked its former friend Saddam Hussein's Iraq. There is more. The USA shot down an Iranian civilian airliner with the loss of more than 200 lives.
Some of my Iranian friends just came back from Iran. They reported that within the homes of family and friends, life is very good except for the ever increasing cost of food and the lack of medicines due to the sanctions. They want a regime change but Iranians in exile can hardly overthrow the Ayatollah. They hope for an agreement between the 5 + 1 and Iran, one step towards re-establishing relations with a country that unlike Israel adheres to international agreements concerning nuclear weapons and unlike Israel is not armed with such weapons.
Larry
Perhaps the most important way is that democratic Iran had an election that led to Mohammed Mossadegh being chosen. So what did democratic USA do? With the help of the CIA Mossadegh was deposed and went into exile. Then during the Iraq-Iran war, started by Iraq, not Iran, the USA supported Saddam Hussein - remember him - in waging chemical warfare against Kurds in Halabja and elsewhere and against Iranians. Then perhaps you have forgotten that the USA attacked its former friend Saddam Hussein's Iraq. There is more. The USA shot down an Iranian civilian airliner with the loss of more than 200 lives.
Some of my Iranian friends just came back from Iran. They reported that within the homes of family and friends, life is very good except for the ever increasing cost of food and the lack of medicines due to the sanctions. They want a regime change but Iranians in exile can hardly overthrow the Ayatollah. They hope for an agreement between the 5 + 1 and Iran, one step towards re-establishing relations with a country that unlike Israel adheres to international agreements concerning nuclear weapons and unlike Israel is not armed with such weapons.
Larry
Brilliant idea, Barb. What, exactly, are they supposed to do? How do you propose they "fight?" Go down to the nearest gun shop to Beverley Hills, pick up an AR-15, fly to Iran and start shooting?
The future is always dictated by the younger generation. The WW2 generation learned that in the 60's and 70's, the baby boomers are learning it now.
The young should and can ignore their elders by trusting if they also verify.
The young should and can ignore their elders by trusting if they also verify.
5
We must give the heartless cruel regime a road to nuclear weapons. The world must not, must not allow this.
4
When it comes to individual human beings, we don't control other people's behavior. Maybe it's different with collections of them, with countries, but is it really that certain that interdependent trade relations and incentives will necessarily produce the desired behaviors? Some humans manage to manipulate and exploit any and all relations, I am interested in whether such patterns can be made impossible in international relations between countries. If it really is a different set of dynamics between countries, that would be great; but with some individuals, it doesn't matter what the other party does, the individual does what they do (probably, I think, because the internal force driving them to do what they so exceeds any force outsiders can bring to bear) and to expect otherwise results in unrealistic expectations and inaccurate predictive models.
3
Since the very idea of nuclear deal, and perhaps beyond deal to larger engagement with the post-1979 Iran that's being currently pursued by the P5 1 represents a revolutionary change in the cold war influenced Western mindset, it's as much a triumph of new global leadership and its risk bearing capacity as perhaps the success of the moderate elements in Iran in keeping the ruling hardline politico-religious and military establishment at a safe distance from the crucial negotiating process of the nuclear deal itself. As such, it's not only the older generation Iranian Americans who are opposed to the deal but there's no dearth of elements who are bitterly opposed to such a deal with Iran as they see even the changing Iran only through the spotty lenses of Islam or geopolitics. So if the deal comes to fruition it would symbolise the victory of hope over despair and the aspirational generation over the backward looking old guard.
5
Iran remains a theocracy, an evil form of government where ever it has been that destroys all dignity. That said, they are but one bad actor in a bad neighborhood where there us no logic to US trust unless we remain in thrall to israeli interests.
8
I taught many young Iranians whose families were supporters of the Shah and who left Iran in 1979. Today they are middle-aged. They were a highly Westernized, wealthy, and well-educated group and they uniformly despised Khomeini. Your claim that those who left as children do not share the views of their parents is contrary to my experience.
30
Iran is a test case for those who believe war should be replaced by negotiation. I agree hope has dimmed and this set of negations is huge. Yet, if hope is alive we must try.
19
Reza,
I grew up with the equivalent of the Mullahs My Mother & Grand Parents were religious, while I was liberated from orthodoxy, After all, I studied science, & read the great philosophers. I would try to convince them that the world had changed from thousands of years ago, & what they believed in was written by people who had virtually no knowledge of science or the universe . Their response to what I said, was God should forgive me.Giving the Ayatollah a Nuclear bomb would just reinforce his power to convert the infidels.
I grew up with the equivalent of the Mullahs My Mother & Grand Parents were religious, while I was liberated from orthodoxy, After all, I studied science, & read the great philosophers. I would try to convince them that the world had changed from thousands of years ago, & what they believed in was written by people who had virtually no knowledge of science or the universe . Their response to what I said, was God should forgive me.Giving the Ayatollah a Nuclear bomb would just reinforce his power to convert the infidels.
12
" ...isolating a country does not change its behavior. Engaging it does."
Let's stay engaged.
Let's stay engaged.
21
Everyone keeps going on and on what a youth oriented society Iran has become. Unfortunately Iran remains a brutal theocracy run by old men stuck in the Middle Ages. The Iranian Parliament chants Death to America on a regular basis. And yet the majority of the commenters think that its perfectly OK to give Iran all the nukes it wants no questions asked
11
If only they were stuck in the Middle Ages. The form of Islam the current day radicals (or reactionaries, for those unfamiliar with Islamic history) preach and practice and far more absolutist and unenlightened than the Islam of the Middle Ages.
The generational divide sounds similar to the Cuban-American population. This was also the case with the Iraqi-Americans before 2004, one would hope they learned a lesson.
Isolation hasn't worked anywhere. Interaction opens minds. Sure, human rights are an issue, though if we focused on that, we would have to restrict ourselves to Western Europe and Canada.
Isolation hasn't worked anywhere. Interaction opens minds. Sure, human rights are an issue, though if we focused on that, we would have to restrict ourselves to Western Europe and Canada.
17
I would say Reza listen to your parents and the older generation, they understand better than you or your sister the true nature of the mullahs and their agendas.
However by far the most interesting aspect of this op. ed. piece is the benign and calm way in which you accept your sister's return and identification with the mullahs and the 1979 revolution. But then again whoever said the young have wisdom?
By any measure the Iranian revolution is a return to a medieval world view. A world were women are beholden to men, gays are killed as a religious heretics, and minorities such as Jews, Kurds and others are discriminated against and considered as enemies of the state. Your sister's infatuation with the old ways would end as soon as her selected mate from Iran would start ordering her about, something that no doubt she did not experience in America!
Your parents and the rest of the older generation had good reason to fear and therefore leave Iran. You and your sister would do well to listen to that generation before you bless the mullahs' regime.
However by far the most interesting aspect of this op. ed. piece is the benign and calm way in which you accept your sister's return and identification with the mullahs and the 1979 revolution. But then again whoever said the young have wisdom?
By any measure the Iranian revolution is a return to a medieval world view. A world were women are beholden to men, gays are killed as a religious heretics, and minorities such as Jews, Kurds and others are discriminated against and considered as enemies of the state. Your sister's infatuation with the old ways would end as soon as her selected mate from Iran would start ordering her about, something that no doubt she did not experience in America!
Your parents and the rest of the older generation had good reason to fear and therefore leave Iran. You and your sister would do well to listen to that generation before you bless the mullahs' regime.
22
It took me a long time to accept that if my sisters chose to wear the hijab, I should afford them the dignity of making their choices, if not being supportive, even if I am fundamentally against it. Liberal democracy is not a religion.
As for the Iranian revolution, with all due respect, you watched it on TV. I lived it from an Iranian point of view. You don't have a good picture of our revolution. The 1979 version is dead now, as were the sparks in 1906, 1911, and the snuffling of our democracy in 1953 but it was once a beacon of hope. It was sparked by the need for "work, housing, freedom."
As for the Iranian revolution, with all due respect, you watched it on TV. I lived it from an Iranian point of view. You don't have a good picture of our revolution. The 1979 version is dead now, as were the sparks in 1906, 1911, and the snuffling of our democracy in 1953 but it was once a beacon of hope. It was sparked by the need for "work, housing, freedom."
I don’t believe the writer is blessing the Mullah's regime. Rather he is seeing value in engaging a society where 60% of the population is from post revolution. The people who call for bomb, bomb, bomb will only be helping the Mullahs. You may hate the regime that rules you but if an external power bombs you then you support the rulers however vile they are. Additionally the Iranians are proud people with a pre Islamic history and would never bow down to an external power. They will also see the double standards of the only nuclear power in the Middle East being given a free pass.
Mr Aslan is being completely reasonable in his yearning for better relations with his home country of Iran. It is a strange anomaly that the attitudes of the population of Iran is actually more well-disposed towards the US than those of countries supposedly allied with us. Why would we wish to hurt such people?
The problem being that, whatever the opinions of individual Iranians, none of that affects the actions of their government. Personally, I don't think it any of our concern what they do to their own people, but we should be very concerned over what they might do to others.
And right now, Iran is busily assembling a new Persian Empire across the Middle East straight through to the Mediterranean, which is quite rightly seen as a threat by others in the area.
Even worse, the proposed "deal" would essentially bestow our blessings on their building a nuclear bomb ten years from now. And beside the distressing fact of an expansionist, hostile regime getting nukes, surrounding states such as the Saudis have indicated that whatever Iran is allowed they will take as well. Which means the end of nuclear non-proliferation.
Signing this deal will ultimately result in more nuclear weapons in the area and heightened probability of their use, as well as the strengthening of a hostile regime. And I doubt if any of that is going to benefit the individuals living in Iran or anybody else.
The problem being that, whatever the opinions of individual Iranians, none of that affects the actions of their government. Personally, I don't think it any of our concern what they do to their own people, but we should be very concerned over what they might do to others.
And right now, Iran is busily assembling a new Persian Empire across the Middle East straight through to the Mediterranean, which is quite rightly seen as a threat by others in the area.
Even worse, the proposed "deal" would essentially bestow our blessings on their building a nuclear bomb ten years from now. And beside the distressing fact of an expansionist, hostile regime getting nukes, surrounding states such as the Saudis have indicated that whatever Iran is allowed they will take as well. Which means the end of nuclear non-proliferation.
Signing this deal will ultimately result in more nuclear weapons in the area and heightened probability of their use, as well as the strengthening of a hostile regime. And I doubt if any of that is going to benefit the individuals living in Iran or anybody else.
9
@ Kurt-Kurt, we tried and failed to build a George W. Bush empire in the Middle East and elsewhere and failed miserably. Now IS is trying to create its version. If you give me three choices of Middle Eastern Empires I'll pick Iran since it has a highly educated section of its population and the education of women was a priority even by by Ayatollah Khomenei.
As for nuclear-weapons proliferation why this endless focus on Iran instead of Israel and all the rest? A puzzle.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
As for nuclear-weapons proliferation why this endless focus on Iran instead of Israel and all the rest? A puzzle.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
3
And not signing it will do what? They will proceed to build it anyway
1
Larry Larry,
Why your endless focus on Israel ?
Why your endless focus on Israel ?
5
Mr. Aslan is 100% correct in saying: "Isolating a country does not change its behavior. Engaging it does".
THERE is still debate on who was behind overthrowing the Shah as every Revolution has its Sponsors.
HOWEVER it seems that the event post Islamic Revolution did not progress as planned by its Sponsors!
SO as the US put more pressure on Iran, the new Regime put more pressure on its Citizens pointing to " External National Security Threats".
THE Neocon sponsored Iraqi invasion of Iran and Pan-Arab support of Saddam, transformed Iran's Revolution from Purely Islamic to a Nationalist movement.
Iran found its Soul under Nationalism, the hallmark of the Persian Empire to Resist External Forces and that a Win-Win Nuclear Deal will Moderate Iran's Posture both Internally and Externally and affect the Reforms that we all claim is at the root of our efforts to Isolate Iran.
WE have a Dark History of trying to Contain and Shape Iran since 1950s and that Iranians as one of the best educated Nations with the most Brilliant Civilization with over 3000 years of Recorded History and Invaluable Contributions to Humanity are quite capable of initiating Reforms and do not need advise from the "Usual Suspects".
THERE is still debate on who was behind overthrowing the Shah as every Revolution has its Sponsors.
HOWEVER it seems that the event post Islamic Revolution did not progress as planned by its Sponsors!
SO as the US put more pressure on Iran, the new Regime put more pressure on its Citizens pointing to " External National Security Threats".
THE Neocon sponsored Iraqi invasion of Iran and Pan-Arab support of Saddam, transformed Iran's Revolution from Purely Islamic to a Nationalist movement.
Iran found its Soul under Nationalism, the hallmark of the Persian Empire to Resist External Forces and that a Win-Win Nuclear Deal will Moderate Iran's Posture both Internally and Externally and affect the Reforms that we all claim is at the root of our efforts to Isolate Iran.
WE have a Dark History of trying to Contain and Shape Iran since 1950s and that Iranians as one of the best educated Nations with the most Brilliant Civilization with over 3000 years of Recorded History and Invaluable Contributions to Humanity are quite capable of initiating Reforms and do not need advise from the "Usual Suspects".
25
We should engage Iran militarily & remove their ability to develop nuclear weapons.You don't allow nuclear weapons to fall into the hands of Archaic Fanatical zealots, who's desire is to control the Middle East & convert the infidels forcibly to become Shiites.The classic battle is on the horizon between ISIS & Iran, which will literally inflame the entire Middle East, with a Nuclear holocaust.
This will be Obama's legacy.
This will be Obama's legacy.
3
Mr. Netanyahu put the world on notice years ago that Israel would never accept a nuclear-armed Iran.
Having been left no choice now but to demonstrate that this was not an empty threat,
he will now be proceeding in the very near future to do exactly that. My guess is that the bombing runs over Iran’s nuclear facilities will begin no later than 60 days after the Jewish holidays.
The Israeli Air Force has a good track record in matters like this, and I expect the raid will prove highly successful, with fewer than 100 casualties, coming as it will after years of planning and practice runs.
Afterwards, President Obama will denounce Israel for its “intemperate” and “precipitate” action, but his overall response will be muted, due to the obvious success of the mission. The Ayatollah, of course, will compare the raid to Pearl Harbor, denounce Mr. Netanyahu as Satan-in-the-flesh and promise swift
revenge, but even his reaction will be somewhat muted, knowing as he will, that President Obama is still around to make other deals with.
Behind the scenes, White House staffers will let it be known, that but for the time afforded to Mr. Netanyahu by President Obama’s long negotiations with Iran, Israel’s raid would never have succeeded. Supporters of President Obama will be the most distressed of all, having been simultaneously denied a great Obama victory and the epic defeat of Israel they have always dreamed of. Many of them will accuse AIPAC and Sheldon Adelson of treason.
Having been left no choice now but to demonstrate that this was not an empty threat,
he will now be proceeding in the very near future to do exactly that. My guess is that the bombing runs over Iran’s nuclear facilities will begin no later than 60 days after the Jewish holidays.
The Israeli Air Force has a good track record in matters like this, and I expect the raid will prove highly successful, with fewer than 100 casualties, coming as it will after years of planning and practice runs.
Afterwards, President Obama will denounce Israel for its “intemperate” and “precipitate” action, but his overall response will be muted, due to the obvious success of the mission. The Ayatollah, of course, will compare the raid to Pearl Harbor, denounce Mr. Netanyahu as Satan-in-the-flesh and promise swift
revenge, but even his reaction will be somewhat muted, knowing as he will, that President Obama is still around to make other deals with.
Behind the scenes, White House staffers will let it be known, that but for the time afforded to Mr. Netanyahu by President Obama’s long negotiations with Iran, Israel’s raid would never have succeeded. Supporters of President Obama will be the most distressed of all, having been simultaneously denied a great Obama victory and the epic defeat of Israel they have always dreamed of. Many of them will accuse AIPAC and Sheldon Adelson of treason.
7
@ A. Stanton. Your treatment of the unintended consequences of the actions you champion is hopelessly inadequate. Perhaps you could write more - you are a Verified - to show that you are not as ill informed as was GW. Or perhaps you think that the disintegration of Iraq and the rise of IS are in now way consequences of GW's war on Iraq.
Start writing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Start writing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
5
Some day Bibi and Israel will get what they give .
3
you cannot "osirak" Iran or else Israel would have done it by now. Simple.
1
I lived in Iran in the mid 70's and went back there to work for a few months in 1978. I worked with fellow expats mostly and a few Iranians who spoke English and a lot of whom had been educated in American universities. Indeed during those years there were more Iranian foreign exchange students in the US than exchange students from the rest of the world combined. It was said that the Shah would provide a free US college education to any Iranian student that qualified.
So we were plenty engaged with the government of Iran in those days and with many of the citizens. However, we did not pay much attention to the human rights abuses of the Shah or the mullahs.
I'm not sure a treaty will result in positive re-engagement. The fanatics are not much interested in becoming westernized, unlike the writer of this letter.
So we were plenty engaged with the government of Iran in those days and with many of the citizens. However, we did not pay much attention to the human rights abuses of the Shah or the mullahs.
I'm not sure a treaty will result in positive re-engagement. The fanatics are not much interested in becoming westernized, unlike the writer of this letter.
11
A resident of my village was instrumental in "targeting" Mr. Mosaddegh ( ? sp.).
I've read most of your books. I appreciate your perspective & the perspectives of differing generations.
I was excited to hear Azar Nafisi at our recent island book festival & have read most of her books.
I agree that isolation is NOT better than engagement.
Any diplomat, priest, psychiatrist or marriage counselor can tell us that.
There's hope as we prepare to raise Cuban & U.S. flags in Havana & Washington.
I hope we don't have to wait as long for Washington & Tehran to trade flags.
I've read most of your books. I appreciate your perspective & the perspectives of differing generations.
I was excited to hear Azar Nafisi at our recent island book festival & have read most of her books.
I agree that isolation is NOT better than engagement.
Any diplomat, priest, psychiatrist or marriage counselor can tell us that.
There's hope as we prepare to raise Cuban & U.S. flags in Havana & Washington.
I hope we don't have to wait as long for Washington & Tehran to trade flags.
13
We should all acknowledge that our government had a hand in creating this mess. It was all about oil, similar to the mess we made recently in Iraq.
We made a mess is Cuba as well. Instead of isolating Cuba because of our Cold War ideology we should have maintained economic and diplomatic ties.
I'm seeing similarities between the Iranians in Los Angeles and the Cubans in Miami. In both cases there is a level of wealth and nostalgia for eras that are not coming back. It is time to move on and address present realities.
We made a mess is Cuba as well. Instead of isolating Cuba because of our Cold War ideology we should have maintained economic and diplomatic ties.
I'm seeing similarities between the Iranians in Los Angeles and the Cubans in Miami. In both cases there is a level of wealth and nostalgia for eras that are not coming back. It is time to move on and address present realities.
28
At least for the past several hundred years Iran has not been a responsible participant on the global stage. It has a "bazaar" mentality meaning that everything is negotiable as long as you wind up agreeing with my price.
9
As an Iranian, born in the USA, I totally agree with your comment regarding "bazaar mentality......everything is negotiable as long as you wind up agreeing with my price." That is why these nuclear negotiations are absurd. On the other hand Iran is not India or Pakistan......insanely overpopulated living hells.....and we don't worry about a Paki bomb or an Indian bomb. Pakistan is our "ally." I suspect this is more about face and pride than about a useable weapon for Iran. Of course, the Mullahs are scared to death of repeat of the Iraq war. They are surrounded by US forces, or hostile Sunni forces that can get the US to use a bomb or buy a bomb, and Israel as well so a bomb is a great insurance policy in this world.
The main difference between youth and maturity is that the the former are more ignorant -- not stupid, but more ignorant of how the world works. The young born in American cannot imagine that the Mullahs are as evil as their parents believe (know, actually) them to be, so they think some accommodation can be reached.
The mullahs are simply the Shia version of ISIS. No agreement is possible because they do not think the way you do.
The mullahs are simply the Shia version of ISIS. No agreement is possible because they do not think the way you do.
22
There has been a great revolution in the USA stirring.... It has less to do with reality and facts,then change for change's sake,and becoming a nation of firsts, no matter what we're talking about...this is not a negotiation going on with Iran.. It's appeasement , done by a new twisted reality of US power that came full bearing when Obamas red line in Syria, was passed over..
7
Conflating a potential Nuclear Treaty with nostalgia for a land of yesteryear and cultural yearning is as old as our migrant sorry as a nation. Belief that the the "next" regime iteration will be both more friendly and domestically beneficial unfounded , ask the citizens of Benghazi, Sana'a,Faluja, Allepo,on and on ....
So, if a Mullah light future emerges, polyester Burqa's? Indigestion to the Zionist entity? The ISLAMIC Republic's foundation cannot suffer from the Chinese style of JP Morgan Communism and survive. The elemental affinity of any theocracy demands both a dread foe and singularity as the only path of the righteous....compromise AND survive , never.
So, if a Mullah light future emerges, polyester Burqa's? Indigestion to the Zionist entity? The ISLAMIC Republic's foundation cannot suffer from the Chinese style of JP Morgan Communism and survive. The elemental affinity of any theocracy demands both a dread foe and singularity as the only path of the righteous....compromise AND survive , never.
5
Some commentators suggests that engagement doesn't work. One says that our relationship with China is not a success. Really??? One of our biggest trading partners and maybe the largest holder of U.S debt, But it hasn't been positive? The Republican's argued when they wanted to have favored trade status with China that engagement is what works and that isolating only makes that particular country more rigid. And that is right. The main reason we haven't moved past our ridiculous dangerous policy toward Iran is primarily Israeli and now also Saudi propaganda. It is a big waste. Much of Iran's population is very pro-western. If there was a trillion dollars worth of trade going back and forth no one would be talking about war. And that is the reason Iran wants a nuclear weapon. To make sure it isn't attacked by the U. S. and they also feel why shouldn't they have that capability when so many countries already do. I feel like who are we to tell anyone what they can and can't have. They should be treated as equals and with respect.
8
Found this article very interesting. We learn from our elders so perhaps the younger generations should listen.
6
In this case we learned that our elders were stupid hypocrites when they toppled the elected government of Iran in 1954 .
22
Your father was right, don't trust them! However, the alternative is not acceptable!
1
There is still no nuclear deal. No one has signed anything on the dotted line yet because both sides will continue to stall for as long as possible.. Since this column is written by an Iranian ex-pat it's safe to assume Reza Aslan has no love for the current Iranian regime. And I bet no one I going to accuse Reza Aslan of dual loyalty.
4
Mr. Azlan's excellent op-ed highlights that fact that those who are familiar with Iran’s regime don’t trust them, and those who are not, seem willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
The problem is, trust was only an issue when it seemed Iran’s leaders were actually willing to compromise on inspections, safe disposal of their stockpiles, and phased sanctions relief, but they have now emphatically rejected all of those conditions.
The talks in Vienna have become laughable. President Obama’s transparent hunger to close this deal at any cost has turned America’s negotiators into wide-eyed teenagers walking on to an Iranian used car lot. Iran’s leadership knows they’re in the catbird seat, so deadlines expire, conditions are dropped, and Iran’s regional hostility escalates.
Isolating Iran may not have worked, but clearly, engaging them is not working either, and easing sanctions while getting nothing in return, at a time when Iran is actively trying to expand their military sphere of influence, is not a wise move.
It seems safe to say that everyone wants peace with Iran, but without the aforementioned guarantees this bargain will not lead in that direction. Instead, it will spur a regional arms race, putting nuclear weapons in the hands of governments whose stability is tenuous at best.
The problem is, trust was only an issue when it seemed Iran’s leaders were actually willing to compromise on inspections, safe disposal of their stockpiles, and phased sanctions relief, but they have now emphatically rejected all of those conditions.
The talks in Vienna have become laughable. President Obama’s transparent hunger to close this deal at any cost has turned America’s negotiators into wide-eyed teenagers walking on to an Iranian used car lot. Iran’s leadership knows they’re in the catbird seat, so deadlines expire, conditions are dropped, and Iran’s regional hostility escalates.
Isolating Iran may not have worked, but clearly, engaging them is not working either, and easing sanctions while getting nothing in return, at a time when Iran is actively trying to expand their military sphere of influence, is not a wise move.
It seems safe to say that everyone wants peace with Iran, but without the aforementioned guarantees this bargain will not lead in that direction. Instead, it will spur a regional arms race, putting nuclear weapons in the hands of governments whose stability is tenuous at best.
29
I have lived more than 3 decades in exile. I have lost friends to the atrocities of war and revolution, because we were on the wrong side. I respectfully disagree with your statements.
Let's be clear. Neither you nor anyone else knows what the final agreement will be. Nor has Iran been "placated." The entire set of talks has been conducted in the framework of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) and the Lausanne framework shows this very clearly. Those who want to see Iran's entire nuclear development program dismantled or want the country crawling with unfettered inspectors have not read the NPT. That previously existing treaty to which the United States is bound precludes both of these things. The United States can't change this on its own. For those who want irrational and impossible conditions to be placed on Iran, it is a matter of convincing the Iranians to give up their international treaty rights, which they are not about to do.
4
Reza, the combination of hope and utter depression I felt reading this piece is similar to my usual reaction to your take on Islamic history and world affairs. I can only compare the mullahs currently running Iran with the fundamentalist Christian poobahs Bobby Jindal and Mike Huckabee, people whose prescriptions for a brighter future include steeping an entire nation in their religious fantasies.
Shall the economic and military powers of the world reward Iran for its KKK-like actions toward anyone in the Middle East who supports Israel? Or should our economic policies squeeze and stifle Tehran, risking alienating a generation of Millenials who could be ripe for revolt?
I believe as you do that engagement is nearly always better than its opposite. Always be willing to talk, but be less willing to deal. What does Iran's government want? How will our acceptance of a deal further the mullahs' interests? Can the theocracy use the absence of a deal to burnish its street cred with disaffected kids who use Islamic-approved violence to express their rage?
My mood becomes more somber when I see the regression in your family from your father's to your sister's positions. If every nominally religious person who really doesn't believe a word of it were to "come out" as agnostic or atheist, the violent fringe represented by Iran's leaders or Dylann Roof would lose any moral argument for immoral behavior.
Anyone who values heaven over those currently on Earth is part of the problem.
Shall the economic and military powers of the world reward Iran for its KKK-like actions toward anyone in the Middle East who supports Israel? Or should our economic policies squeeze and stifle Tehran, risking alienating a generation of Millenials who could be ripe for revolt?
I believe as you do that engagement is nearly always better than its opposite. Always be willing to talk, but be less willing to deal. What does Iran's government want? How will our acceptance of a deal further the mullahs' interests? Can the theocracy use the absence of a deal to burnish its street cred with disaffected kids who use Islamic-approved violence to express their rage?
My mood becomes more somber when I see the regression in your family from your father's to your sister's positions. If every nominally religious person who really doesn't believe a word of it were to "come out" as agnostic or atheist, the violent fringe represented by Iran's leaders or Dylann Roof would lose any moral argument for immoral behavior.
Anyone who values heaven over those currently on Earth is part of the problem.
63
"Most of us came here as exiles or refugees fleeing religious or political persecution."
My recollection of the San Fernando Valley in the mid-1970s is that a lot of Iranians had already showed up, flashing a lot of money, while their friend the Shah was still firmly ensconced in power.
Maybe if they had been less greedy there wouldn't have been a revolution back home in Iran?
My recollection of the San Fernando Valley in the mid-1970s is that a lot of Iranians had already showed up, flashing a lot of money, while their friend the Shah was still firmly ensconced in power.
Maybe if they had been less greedy there wouldn't have been a revolution back home in Iran?
38
"Maybe if they had been less greedy there wouldn't have been a revolution back home in Iran?"
As an Iranian-American whose family moved to the San Fernando Valley in the 70's, your statement resonates with me.
As an Iranian-American whose family moved to the San Fernando Valley in the 70's, your statement resonates with me.
3
What a strange and prejudiced thing to say. The Islamic Revolution drove out almost everyone who was secular, or who had a real education or any money. So yes, you may have seen Iranians with money in the Valley in L.A (where I grew up too), but they were still victims. Don't let your discomfort with the rich color your analysis.
Their country was hijacked by medieval zealots, ignorant and violent men who came after the intelligentsia, religious minorities (they really went after the Jews), business owners, professors, the college-educated, and en masse came after women by turning them into an entire persecuted class. Those who got out, rich or not, were lucky to escape the stupid thuggery of the Ayatollah and deserve some empathy.
Their country was hijacked by medieval zealots, ignorant and violent men who came after the intelligentsia, religious minorities (they really went after the Jews), business owners, professors, the college-educated, and en masse came after women by turning them into an entire persecuted class. Those who got out, rich or not, were lucky to escape the stupid thuggery of the Ayatollah and deserve some empathy.
4
I agree. More interaction between our countries will be good for both of us. One commenter suggested such interaction hasn't helped in China, but I would say it has. China still has serious human rights problems, but it is much less repressive than it was 35 years ago. Also, China has a rising young generation that is pushing for more openness and democracy in its government. I expect the Iranian government will face the same pressure in the future, especially if these talks are a success.
67
Otto,
Given the recent enactment of China's new "National Security Law," guaranteeing the Communist Party primacy in all aspects of life, there will not be any reduction in human rights abuses, and notions of "openness," "transparency," "rule of law," "constitutionalism" and democracy, as they exist in the West, are a far distant illusory pipe dream!
Given the recent enactment of China's new "National Security Law," guaranteeing the Communist Party primacy in all aspects of life, there will not be any reduction in human rights abuses, and notions of "openness," "transparency," "rule of law," "constitutionalism" and democracy, as they exist in the West, are a far distant illusory pipe dream!
4
Or these unfortunate actions by Xi Jinping's administration may be a result of his nervousness about the increasing pressure he sees coming from China's younger and more liberal generation.
China is far from a perfect example of what we would like for them, but it was worse, and it could be worse. Would it have been? Speculation to be sure, but you speculation seems likely.
Reza Aslan has given an interesting insight into the Iranians, living in Southern California. With a number of nearly half a million, it makes up the largest Iranian diaspora abroad.
It's comprehensible that the older generation of Iranians rejects the nuclear deal with Iran, hoping it would lead to an implosion and a demise of the theocracy, which had caused them much suffering.
But the future of Iran and that of the United States lies in the hands of younger generations. Let's hope that reactionary forces both in the US and Iran will lose their clout, as years go by!
It's comprehensible that the older generation of Iranians rejects the nuclear deal with Iran, hoping it would lead to an implosion and a demise of the theocracy, which had caused them much suffering.
But the future of Iran and that of the United States lies in the hands of younger generations. Let's hope that reactionary forces both in the US and Iran will lose their clout, as years go by!
53
If there had been no sanctions, there would not be any negotiations going on now. "... isolating a country does not change its behavior, engaging it does" makes a lovely soundbite, but that's all.
24
36 years is a long time. The title should instead read: 'What do Americans who once lived in Iran think of the Nuclear Deal'?
9
The same argument was used over the past several decades in regard to engaging rigid, authoritarian, deeply politically corrupt China, and it is very hard to say this was a success.
4
When an American accuses Iran of not respecting its citizens? Two words: "Black people". Done with that.
Iranians in LA: you are like the Romanov supporters, or the Cuban exiles, or Bonaparte sympathizers - your country has totally moved on without you. LOL, how much sympathy should the "poor exiles" generate when they are 1/4th of Beverly Hills? Go on, take the money and run. Just don't tell Iran about a country you haven't seen in 4 decades.
Iranians in LA: you are like the Romanov supporters, or the Cuban exiles, or Bonaparte sympathizers - your country has totally moved on without you. LOL, how much sympathy should the "poor exiles" generate when they are 1/4th of Beverly Hills? Go on, take the money and run. Just don't tell Iran about a country you haven't seen in 4 decades.
38
I don't know,how you could say that'd engaging China wasn't successful. If you expected them to immediately become a democracy, I guess you could call it a failure. As it is, China isn't what we would wish, but they aren't the enemy they could have been. I remember what a threat China was before Nixon made his historic trip. China is still a challenge but is an improvement.
4
It was the United States that subverted, perverted and radicalised Iran.
All so BP, nee Anglo Iranian, could keep stealing Iranian oil.
Eisenhower deposed Time Magazine's Man of The Year, 1953, Mohammed Mossadecq and installed the pliant Boy Shah. A "Shah" whose sole claim to the Peacock Throne of Cyrus the Great, Darius and Xerxes, was that his father, a general, seized power and declared himself a shah.
When the Shah's fecklessness, venality and brutality, aided by the largest CIA station in the world at the time, resulted in the Iranian revolution, the US then
funded and backed Saddam Hussein to fight Iran. The US gave Saddam Hussein satellite imagery to improve his use of chemical WMD's on Iran. Shot down Iran Air 655, killing 290 civilians, 66 of them children.
The US, in league with rogue nuclear proliferator Israel, then cyber nukes Iran. Tries to starve Iran. Threatens war with Iran.
But for the US actions, above, today Iran could have been a democracy.
All so BP, nee Anglo Iranian, could keep stealing Iranian oil.
Eisenhower deposed Time Magazine's Man of The Year, 1953, Mohammed Mossadecq and installed the pliant Boy Shah. A "Shah" whose sole claim to the Peacock Throne of Cyrus the Great, Darius and Xerxes, was that his father, a general, seized power and declared himself a shah.
When the Shah's fecklessness, venality and brutality, aided by the largest CIA station in the world at the time, resulted in the Iranian revolution, the US then
funded and backed Saddam Hussein to fight Iran. The US gave Saddam Hussein satellite imagery to improve his use of chemical WMD's on Iran. Shot down Iran Air 655, killing 290 civilians, 66 of them children.
The US, in league with rogue nuclear proliferator Israel, then cyber nukes Iran. Tries to starve Iran. Threatens war with Iran.
But for the US actions, above, today Iran could have been a democracy.
117
Mr. Geary, I totally agree with ALL your historical comments.
3
Craig,
As to the C.I.A. sponsored overthrow of Mossadecq and installation of the Shah, you are correct. However, it was not Israel, which once had good relations with Iran, which initiated the "saber-rattling" and threats. Perhaps you were unaware that the "Supreme Leader," whose powers are unlimited by the Iranian "Potemkin Village" President and Legislature, made the first threats when he threatened to either "wipe Israel off the map," or "erase it from the pages of history," depending on which Farsi translation is used.
Yes, Israel has a nuclear arsenal, which it maintains for the same reasons that Pakistan, India, France, China, the U.K., Russia and the United States maintain theirs: as credible deterrents to foreign aggression. As cynical as it may sound, the doctrine of "Mutually Assured Destruction" remains highly effective, which means nuclear weapons are unlikely to be abolished any time in the foreseeable future. Just knowing that Israel has the capability to turn Iranian targets into the next Hiroshima or Nagasaki, should give the Mullahs pause; most Iranians are not suicidal, but a mad Mullah may be anxious to ascend to Paradise in a thermonuclear cloud to advance the return of the "Hidden Imam."
As a nation-state member of the U.N., Israel, among others, is entitled to an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. The Mullahs would be wise not to test the Israelis!
As to the C.I.A. sponsored overthrow of Mossadecq and installation of the Shah, you are correct. However, it was not Israel, which once had good relations with Iran, which initiated the "saber-rattling" and threats. Perhaps you were unaware that the "Supreme Leader," whose powers are unlimited by the Iranian "Potemkin Village" President and Legislature, made the first threats when he threatened to either "wipe Israel off the map," or "erase it from the pages of history," depending on which Farsi translation is used.
Yes, Israel has a nuclear arsenal, which it maintains for the same reasons that Pakistan, India, France, China, the U.K., Russia and the United States maintain theirs: as credible deterrents to foreign aggression. As cynical as it may sound, the doctrine of "Mutually Assured Destruction" remains highly effective, which means nuclear weapons are unlikely to be abolished any time in the foreseeable future. Just knowing that Israel has the capability to turn Iranian targets into the next Hiroshima or Nagasaki, should give the Mullahs pause; most Iranians are not suicidal, but a mad Mullah may be anxious to ascend to Paradise in a thermonuclear cloud to advance the return of the "Hidden Imam."
As a nation-state member of the U.N., Israel, among others, is entitled to an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. The Mullahs would be wise not to test the Israelis!
10
It could have been a democracy? If so, it would have been the only democracy in the entire region. The overthrow of Mossadegh was seriously bad politics as well as a morally bankrupt action, but I would not conclude that Iran might have been a democracy if not for US intervention. Democracy never lasts in that region, and that isn't only about US policy, it's also because of the region's own history and culture.
I entirely agree, and sincerely believe that maintaining a certain expectancy and "dramatic tension" regarding the negotiations strengthens those who are moderates,,, not only with respect to the nuclear focus but more importantly with regard to the distinct possibility of opening up the Iranian civil society to modernity and our cultural influence. So let the negotiations go on (and on and on), and be patient in the knowledge that America defeated communism and opened up China, not with bombs, but with Levi's and consumerism, and popular culture.
6
You may be right, but I think consumerism and popular culture are part of the problem. There's so little of substance in popular culture today... granted, the quality of television has improved considerably over the decades, but popular music, film and art are essentially "junk food", anti-intellectual, over-sexualized, over-hyped, flashy and superficial. It's not hard for me to see why people would look for an alternative to a world where guys like Jobs and Zuckerberg are held up as heroes, men who are just out to make a buck and run over whoever gets in their way. Greed is not good. It's too bad the only available alternative seems to be religion and a return to the past, which is a dead-end and worse than the superficiality of the West. We need to invest in our culture. How long can you live on junk food?
2
"Isolating a country does not change its behavior. Engaging it does".
This would be correct and positive if the nuclear deal, described at best as a "good bad deal" by Thomas Friedman, also related to the rogue behavior of Iran outside of the nuclear sphere and especially as it pertains to support of terrorism or those regimes or groups which engage in such.
So what exactly is there about this deal that will help Iran realize the dream of the under 30s in Iran or in Tehranangeles? What about this deal will make Iran a country that "respects the rights of its citizens and has warm relations with the rest of the world"? Mr. Khamenei has not mentioned much or anything in this respect.
It is more likely that as Thomas Friedman stated, there is a tremendous potential for the deal to go sour.
If the nuclear deal is a bad deal qua nuclear deal, it is not a deal at all re the rest of Iran's behavior. Would Reza Aslan risk his life on such a gamble just so the under 30s can feel good?
This would be correct and positive if the nuclear deal, described at best as a "good bad deal" by Thomas Friedman, also related to the rogue behavior of Iran outside of the nuclear sphere and especially as it pertains to support of terrorism or those regimes or groups which engage in such.
So what exactly is there about this deal that will help Iran realize the dream of the under 30s in Iran or in Tehranangeles? What about this deal will make Iran a country that "respects the rights of its citizens and has warm relations with the rest of the world"? Mr. Khamenei has not mentioned much or anything in this respect.
It is more likely that as Thomas Friedman stated, there is a tremendous potential for the deal to go sour.
If the nuclear deal is a bad deal qua nuclear deal, it is not a deal at all re the rest of Iran's behavior. Would Reza Aslan risk his life on such a gamble just so the under 30s can feel good?
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