Israel's policies made Fatah popular and created Hamas. Now they are creating more fanatics. Israel's policies must change or there will never be peace.
1
"The latest round of violence began in April after Hamas detained a prominent extremist, Adnan Mayit. His followers responded by firing rockets at Israelis"--why is the default setting of such lunatics to blame Israel?
And how can ISIS retain so much Muslim support when it has killed so many innocent Muslims?
And how can ISIS retain so much Muslim support when it has killed so many innocent Muslims?
2
In the days of the Ottoman Empire, occasionally the Arab tribes in an area would unite and rise in rebellion. The Ottoman's policy for the situation was to simply leave and wait, because they knew the tribes would inevitably fall to fighting among themselves. When they did, the Ottomans would return to re-assert their rule. Doesn't seem like things have changed much.
5
HAHAHAHA this is what Hamas gets for not making peace with Israel. They could have really given their people a great medical and educational system and provide a place where businesses and their people could have flourished. Instead they built tunnels and spent money on rockets. Now they aren't extreme enough. Btw i feel for all the innocent people that ISIS killed with their bombs. I ask where are all the pictures of those broken, blown up people.
4
Welcome yet again to World War 3. This situation is exposing the true weakness and the shallowness of the West, its superficial values, lack of ideas, ridiculous politics, and its perceptions. As it escalates, so will the backlash effect, the inevitable change from PC tactics to WW2 tactics. Just change the names of Dresden, Hamburg, Tokyo and Nuremberg and the Russian Front to the Middle East. It can only get worse until it's shut down.
I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling in Casablanca. And radical Islam in Gaza.
Israel is the only beacon of civilization in the Middle East. Those who wish for its humiliation, it's devastation, it's destruction, should be very careful what they wish for.
Israel is the only beacon of civilization in the Middle East. Those who wish for its humiliation, it's devastation, it's destruction, should be very careful what they wish for.
4
Bravo to France for very recently declaring that any mosque or organization that preaches or allows terrorism to be preached on French soil will be shuttered and those responsible deported, if they are not French citizens. Finally, Europe is waking up to the very real threat in its midst.
10
When Incitements against Israel and Jews appear on the Palestinian Authority's television and official newspaper, al-Hayat al-Jadida, we in the West don’t say or do a thing.
ISIS and Hamas see the lack of response to their genocidal acts as tacit endorsement.
Arab Nazis bear a reduced political and criminal responsibility here – and the source of this racist arrogance is in the left, which carries the flag of "progress."
ISIS and Hamas see the lack of response to their genocidal acts as tacit endorsement.
Arab Nazis bear a reduced political and criminal responsibility here – and the source of this racist arrogance is in the left, which carries the flag of "progress."
6
the ISIS ideology is every where (well not Asia). fire must be fought with fire. either the good people take to destroying ISIS in the areas ISIS occupies or the powers that be exert the force necessary to wipe out the psychology of ISIS.
1
This is terrible news. Now what choices will Israel have if ISIS does indeed end up controlling Gaza and begins to attack Israelis? Those Americans who call for a boycott and disinvestment of Israeli businesses should think twice and look themselves in the mirror. Will they call for a boycott of ISIS backed Gaza government?
4
The time to fight ISIS was before they got a foothold in Syria. But that (their fight against Assad's forces) seemed like a good thing to many enemies of Assad in the region (including Israel). It's no time to cry now.
4
The Israeli military will be merciless against ISIS and will make short work of them. They have plenty of experience dealing with this sort of thing.
1
Yesterday attack of ISIS on Egyptian army in Sinai underscores the increasing prospects of all out war there. It cannot be a "politically correct war" . World community cannot expect to fight brutal killers with hands of Egyptian soldiers tied behind their back. More, ISIS is slaughtering civilians with impunity. Nobody goes to the International Criminal Court to complain. Israel is a bad model for modern warfare: they dropped millions of leaflets, telephone calls, text messages, "knock on the roof" warning etc. Yet if there were civilian casualties, Israel was accused of war crimes anyhow. Wars must be won. President Truman dropped atom bombes because this actually reduced civilian casualties as the war ended quickly. Make no mistake, the Western PC war does not want to see civilians die. Hamas making residential areas war zones, ISIS car bombings and eventual decapitations of civilians do not care about their civilians except for their propaganda value when they are killed by Israel. PC wars cannot be won, make short wars into long ones. The asymmetry between a terror organization, Hamas/ISIS, and UN states cannot continue. The West including Israel has to win wars quickly even if there are civilians caught in the middle. Sad, but there is no other choice.
12
When Incitements against Israel and Jews appear on the Palestinian Authority's television and official newspaper, al-Hayat al-Jadida, we in the West don’t say or do a thing.
ISIS and Hamas see the lack of response to their genocidal acts as tacit endorsement.
Arab Nazis bear a reduced political and criminal responsibility here – and the source of this racist arrogance is in the left, which carries the flag of "progress."
ISIS and Hamas see the lack of response to their genocidal acts as tacit endorsement.
Arab Nazis bear a reduced political and criminal responsibility here – and the source of this racist arrogance is in the left, which carries the flag of "progress."
4
To those calling for the unscathed regional powers to step up and fight ISIS, I'd like to remind you that most of them have been arming or supporting ISIS in the first place, hence their unscathed status.
1
Hamas: beware of what you do to your enemies. You have committed terrorism, murdered and kidnapped innocent people, tortured, killed your rivals, ignored human and democratic rights -- all in the name of "purity" "Islam" and "struggle". What you allow to be done to your enemies will eventually be done to you. You use suicide bombers -- they will be used against you. You kill other Muslims, other Palestinians -- you will be killed by them in turn. You murder civilians -- your own women and children are murdered. There are rules of war, rules of protest, ways to achieve your goals without shedding innocent blood. But you broke those rules and paved the way for those who follow no rules at all.
6
Israel: "beware of what you do to your enemies. You have committed terrorism, murdered and kidnapped innocent people, tortured, killed your rivals, ignored human and democratic rights"
A lot of that going around that neighborhood.
A lot of that going around that neighborhood.
1
Having now read the claim that Hamas is Shia twice in the comment section, no, it is not! Hamas is Sunni as are most palestinians. People, at least google "hamas sunni shia" before commenting. And unlike the radical Wahabbi Egyptian cleric, Tala’at Zahran's claim, Hamas is also not communist. http://www.commdiginews.com/world-news/shiite-sunni-wahhabi-and-the-isra... sheech.
7
There seems to be no limit to the lunacy of Muslim extremists. ISIS has now claimed the most extreme corner, eager to replace Hamas, Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah as a prime mover in the Arab world. What will emerge next? Surely there will soon be some other group of lunatics who will find ISIS to be too moderate. None of these groups promoting violence have given any thought to what it really takes to improve the Arab lot and are bound to self-destruct in the long run. Unfortunately, they will still bring untold misery on their way to oblivion.
15
"None of these groups promoting violence have given any thought to what it really takes to improve the Arab lot"
They've given a lot of thought to it. They're just wrong.
That is an opening for us. We could prove them wrong. We could show something better. That is our way to success.
We have not. Too often, we crush them too, Iraq and Syria not least, but the model all see of what we have on offer is what we've done to Palestine.
They've given a lot of thought to it. They're just wrong.
That is an opening for us. We could prove them wrong. We could show something better. That is our way to success.
We have not. Too often, we crush them too, Iraq and Syria not least, but the model all see of what we have on offer is what we've done to Palestine.
1
It's time for the US to end its failed experiment in arming extremists and waiting until the dust settles so it (and Israel) can further manipulate mid east politics. A whole lot of people are dying and displaced, and the problem is rapidly spreading, not resolving by any means.
Time to demand that Saudi Arabia and Turkey stop arming ISIL, and time to call a truce with the Shiites, so a united front can combat this destabilizing force.
Time to demand that Saudi Arabia and Turkey stop arming ISIL, and time to call a truce with the Shiites, so a united front can combat this destabilizing force.
2
After years of bus bombings, cafe bombings, mortar and missile launches for the sole purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible, I have zero sympathy for and zero outrage over any terrorist act from Muslim extremists directed against Hamas. I'm sure they'll find a way to blame Israel somehow and the media will buy into it.
12
we want to improve the condition of people of gaza and sadly ISIS , Hamas and Likud party are interested in taking benefit of gaza situation to criticize each other rather than improvement of gaza condition
3
Many of the Commenters labor under the illusion that all is either the fault or to the credit of America and/or Israel. Sorry folks, but other peoples are quite capable of not only creating good but also acting horrendously on their own. What is occurring in the Middle East today is largely just a continuation of a long past.
A century ago T.E. Lawrence wrote "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" chronicling his efforts on behalf of Great Britain to unite the Arabs against the Ottoman Empire. In many ways, little has changed. Had Administrations and Congresses read his book, it is doubtful they would have labored under the illusion that the countries in the Middle East between Egypt and Iran are real, not just jury-rigged, colonial legacy entities or that their people are interested in welcoming democracy to their tribal reality, let alone welcoming such at the point of U.S. arms.
In 2000 not 1% of Americans knew of Sunnis and Shiites, let alone Salafists. Unfortunately, it appears neither successive Administrations, State Departments. Intelligence Agencies, nor Congresses were any better informed.
We have an Intelligence apparatus unparalleled in collecting data. Unfortunately, that apparatus has failed badly at analyzing that data. As those agencies have detoured into data collection, operations, and telling Presidents what they want to hear, they have largely punted on their primary mission: to analyze data and present our elected leaders with good, unpoliticized analysis.
A century ago T.E. Lawrence wrote "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" chronicling his efforts on behalf of Great Britain to unite the Arabs against the Ottoman Empire. In many ways, little has changed. Had Administrations and Congresses read his book, it is doubtful they would have labored under the illusion that the countries in the Middle East between Egypt and Iran are real, not just jury-rigged, colonial legacy entities or that their people are interested in welcoming democracy to their tribal reality, let alone welcoming such at the point of U.S. arms.
In 2000 not 1% of Americans knew of Sunnis and Shiites, let alone Salafists. Unfortunately, it appears neither successive Administrations, State Departments. Intelligence Agencies, nor Congresses were any better informed.
We have an Intelligence apparatus unparalleled in collecting data. Unfortunately, that apparatus has failed badly at analyzing that data. As those agencies have detoured into data collection, operations, and telling Presidents what they want to hear, they have largely punted on their primary mission: to analyze data and present our elected leaders with good, unpoliticized analysis.
15
I agree with this observation.
I often say: if you really want to get a beginning on understanding the situation in the MIddle East, a good start is to simply watch the great movie "Lawrence of Arabia".
It won't tell you ALL you need to know?
But it will really get you on your way - towards understanding the dynamics.
I often say: if you really want to get a beginning on understanding the situation in the MIddle East, a good start is to simply watch the great movie "Lawrence of Arabia".
It won't tell you ALL you need to know?
But it will really get you on your way - towards understanding the dynamics.
1
Would Israel rather be fighting with Hamas, which is moderate, known, and maintains it's ceasefires, or with ISIS? Israel should see that Hamas is actually a bulwark against Islamic extremism and it is now in their long term self interest to see Hamas succeed.
In the 70's, Israel tried to crush the PLO by actively contributing to the rise of Hamas, which was competing for power with the PLO. The enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend strategy. Let's hope Israel doesn't crush Hamas (at heart a nationalist organization) only to see the vacuum filled by far more radical religious extremists.
In the 70's, Israel tried to crush the PLO by actively contributing to the rise of Hamas, which was competing for power with the PLO. The enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend strategy. Let's hope Israel doesn't crush Hamas (at heart a nationalist organization) only to see the vacuum filled by far more radical religious extremists.
9
I just spit out my coffee.
Hamas is moderate???????
Only on the NYT comments board.
Hamas is moderate???????
Only on the NYT comments board.
9
Would Hamas rather do a deal with Israel or find itself fighting ISIS? Maybe it's a good time for Hamas to follow the Palestinian Authority's lead and get pragmatic about a deal with Israel.
9
I wonder if Hamas will drop leaflets and send texts telling ISIS to leave before they start retaliating.
7
Until the massive internecine fights among Palestinians and now, ISIS, are resolved, the idea of a Palestinian state is bizarre. There is no Palestinian government and before ISSI' intervention, there were two. Now there may be three.
12
If you count Jordan, which is ~90% self-identified Palestinean, there are four….
3
In the same way that the Israelis out of the kindness of their heart provide medical treatment and other forms of assistance to Al-Nusra Front and other terrorists in Syria and treat the wounded terrorists in Israeli hospitals, I am sure that they will also provide all the necessary assistance to the ISIS fighters in Gaza.
Some people must be blind or deliberately feign blindness not to see the tragedy that is unfolding in the Middle East. Israel’s new allies, the Saudi rulers, fund and support Wahhabi-Salafi terrorists to attack Syria and the Shias in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and elsewhere and are now allegedly active against Sunni Hamas in Gaza, but somehow there has not been a single attack against Israel, either at home or abroad. If people did not believe in miracles and divine protection for God’s Chosen People they should begin to believe now.
Some people must be blind or deliberately feign blindness not to see the tragedy that is unfolding in the Middle East. Israel’s new allies, the Saudi rulers, fund and support Wahhabi-Salafi terrorists to attack Syria and the Shias in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and elsewhere and are now allegedly active against Sunni Hamas in Gaza, but somehow there has not been a single attack against Israel, either at home or abroad. If people did not believe in miracles and divine protection for God’s Chosen People they should begin to believe now.
4
It also helps to believe in the Israel Defense Forces.
6
Inducing internecine warfare among one's enemies is a strategy straight out of Sun-Tzu's "The Art of War" and the writings of strategists Mao Ze-Dong and Vo Nguyen Giap.
"Supreme excellence in war is winning without fighting." --Sun-Tzu
Israel is intelligent in adopting the techniques of these excellent strategists!
"Supreme excellence in war is winning without fighting." --Sun-Tzu
Israel is intelligent in adopting the techniques of these excellent strategists!
4
Israel treats those that are wounded and reach their IDF outposts in the Golan without questioning who they are. Last summer Israel set up medical camps at the Israeli-Gaza "border" to treat the wounded from Gaza, although Hamas prevented many of their wounded from reaching the medical stations. Israel also treats hundreds from Gaza and the west bank in its hospitals every year. But I suppose if Israel did not do all of this, you would still find a way to criticize Israel's behavior.
4
The majority of people in Gaza are Sunni. Hamas has recently been attacking Sunnis, apparently with the full support (and possibly urging) of Iran. Thus, it's not surprising that ISIS could move in, there being no other viable resistance movement. A similar thing is occurring in Yemen, where minority Houthi (Shia of the 'fiver' persuasion) are taking over the country against the will of the majority Sunni. Israel should consider supporting an alternative resistance movement in Gaza.
This makes no sense. Hamas is Sunni.
If Hamas attacks other Sunnis it's for political reasons (such as the attacks on Fatah) and/or because they aren't "pure" enough, in theological terms.
If Hamas attacks other Sunnis it's for political reasons (such as the attacks on Fatah) and/or because they aren't "pure" enough, in theological terms.
1
Well, now Israel remains in fact without the support of the United States, while the aggression against it is increasing day by day. The situation is becoming more and more dangerous. It's really can become a serious problem.
2
Poppycock! Israel has and will continue to have full support of the US
4
The declining support in the US and the increasing hostility elsewhere is entirely the doing of Netanyahu, his choices.
Don't like it? Change what he's doing.
That applies especially to ISIS in Gaza. Current policy hasn't worked, and more of the same won't work. It just gets worse, this being the latest iteration of worse.
Don't like it? Change what he's doing.
That applies especially to ISIS in Gaza. Current policy hasn't worked, and more of the same won't work. It just gets worse, this being the latest iteration of worse.
9
@Mark, what would you like Netanyahu to change? And while we're on the subject why does Hamas continually send missles over to Israel knowing full well at some point there will be retaliation and essentially trashing of Palestine? My answer is that the more damage Israel does, both in number of deaths and destruction of property, the more Hamas gets support. Support from their own people who of course blame Israel and outside support in the form of money from Quatar and the like, which keeps Hamas in power. Hamas cares nothing about its own people only caring about staying in power.
8
Hamas's "emerging rivals" that see themselves as ISIS allies, make up mostly of hard-liners of Hama's military wing, the Al Qassam Brigades. The puritanical salafi-jihadis with ties to al-Qaeda or ISIS insist Hamas is being run by softies no better than "bearded Zionists."
Hamas has not only created the conditions in Gaza that breed radicals. It has also left salafi-jihadis in peace, saying: "The arena is big enough for everyone".
Hamas thought these people could come in useful in fighting the Israelis. Now it has a problem in containing young militants, who watch al-Qaeda training videos on YouTube and fantasise about becoming the next Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, founder of the Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the forerunner of ISIS.
Indeed it is worrying, because they fire rockets into Israel, hoping for a retaliation, that would destroy Hamas, and a destruction, like the one we saw last year!
Hamas has not only created the conditions in Gaza that breed radicals. It has also left salafi-jihadis in peace, saying: "The arena is big enough for everyone".
Hamas thought these people could come in useful in fighting the Israelis. Now it has a problem in containing young militants, who watch al-Qaeda training videos on YouTube and fantasise about becoming the next Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, founder of the Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the forerunner of ISIS.
Indeed it is worrying, because they fire rockets into Israel, hoping for a retaliation, that would destroy Hamas, and a destruction, like the one we saw last year!
9
Time to admit that Islam is not a religion of peace yet? Guess not. But ISIS and these fundamentalists will not stop. Ever. Too many are brainwashed, they have too much money, and too many weapons. You cannot reason with crazy.
13
The former pope Benedict uttered the politically incorrect statement that Islam was a religion spread by the sword. He was excoriated for it and was forced to apologize to a sensitive Muslim world.
3
NO Abrahamic religion is a religion of peace.
"Whether imposed by God or unfriendly neighbors" ... are the only two possibilities this author can muster to explain Gaza's awful state?
Did it occur to the editor of this piece to include the "militant rule of Hamas" as a third possibility, since the author's own grasp on reality failed here?
Did it occur to the editor of this piece to include the "militant rule of Hamas" as a third possibility, since the author's own grasp on reality failed here?
9
It's a good thing Arafat didn't accept President Clinton's and Israeli PM Barak's offer in 2000 of a Palestinian state in 95% of the West Bank, all of Gaza and East Jerusalem. It's also good that Abbas didn't accept Israel PM's Olmert's even more generous offers. Had these offers been accepted, Israel would now have even more radicalized terror groups on its borders than Hamas and the PLO. It's no wonder Netanyahu believes that there will be no Palestinian state under his leadership.
Those who don't see it this way have never visited the region (I have many times), don't understand the region and its history, and/or are radicalized themselves.
Those who don't see it this way have never visited the region (I have many times), don't understand the region and its history, and/or are radicalized themselves.
11
That calculus is too complicated for the West, the boycott supporters, flotilla sailors or leftist activists to comprehend. It's much simpler to accuse Israel as the problem and to ignore beheadings and suicide bomb attacks killing hundreds.
8
Reading some of the comments posted, I am reminded of the "Who lost China" debate of nearly 70 years ago. Who is to blame for the rise of ISIS? There is plenty of blame to go around. Enough said.
The important question is who and what will stop ISIS? Think of ISIS as an incipient power in the Middle East much like German Nazism in the 1930's in Europe. Ignore it at our peril; we must not be doomed to repeat history.
The fact of ISIS making intrusions into Gaza should wake up Obama and Kerry to put aside their dislike of Netanyahu and to focus on the myriad long term consequences of a two state solution should radical extremists like ISIS take control of Palestine.
ISIS must be greatly emboldened to test outright war with Israel by attacking Gaza. Surely Israel would rather deal with Hamas, the enemy that it knows, than with ISIS, the enemy that is unknowable.
For certain, Israeli soldiers will not lay down their arms and run. It may be that only Israel would have the will to engage and defeat ISIS militarily, because it is clear that in the world community only Israel is truly concerned with Israel's survival.
Everyone else just seems to have tired of the Israel/Palestine dispute to the point of wanting it to end at almost any price. Fatigue brings defeat, and Israel is not fatigued.
The important question is who and what will stop ISIS? Think of ISIS as an incipient power in the Middle East much like German Nazism in the 1930's in Europe. Ignore it at our peril; we must not be doomed to repeat history.
The fact of ISIS making intrusions into Gaza should wake up Obama and Kerry to put aside their dislike of Netanyahu and to focus on the myriad long term consequences of a two state solution should radical extremists like ISIS take control of Palestine.
ISIS must be greatly emboldened to test outright war with Israel by attacking Gaza. Surely Israel would rather deal with Hamas, the enemy that it knows, than with ISIS, the enemy that is unknowable.
For certain, Israeli soldiers will not lay down their arms and run. It may be that only Israel would have the will to engage and defeat ISIS militarily, because it is clear that in the world community only Israel is truly concerned with Israel's survival.
Everyone else just seems to have tired of the Israel/Palestine dispute to the point of wanting it to end at almost any price. Fatigue brings defeat, and Israel is not fatigued.
17
So Hamas is moderate now, according to the NYT? Ridiculous relativism. They're all extremists.
14
The sweep of ISIS ideology across the Arab world is similar to Europe post WWI. The continent was in chaos. Germany was crippled by debt and social unrest, the Russian Empire had collapsed under the Bolshevik revolution and various ethnic groups that has been part of the Austrian Empire were scrambling for territory and new nation states. As the crisis and social unrest deepened Fascism emerges as an answer to all this dislocation. While it seizes state power in Italy and Germany it infects the political landscape all across the continent.
ISIS emerges out of over a decade of war, the break up of the Iraqi state, the total humiliation of the Palestinians, the domination by outside powers, increased poverty and social dislocation even at the level of the klan and family which is so crucial to Arab society.
In Europe an ideology unfolds emphasizing the primacy of the state, the necessity of strong leaders, the suppression of the individual and an appeal to fantasies of former greatness.
In the Arab world an extreme form of Islam comes forth featuring similar values and promising order such as submission to faith and the state that is its agent, repression of the individual, brutally imposed obedience, a return to historical greatness through the Caliphate and establishing order from the present chaos. ISIS is essentially a fascist movement sweeping the region in the chaos that the US created. We have made the civil order needed to stem this tide less rather than more likely.
ISIS emerges out of over a decade of war, the break up of the Iraqi state, the total humiliation of the Palestinians, the domination by outside powers, increased poverty and social dislocation even at the level of the klan and family which is so crucial to Arab society.
In Europe an ideology unfolds emphasizing the primacy of the state, the necessity of strong leaders, the suppression of the individual and an appeal to fantasies of former greatness.
In the Arab world an extreme form of Islam comes forth featuring similar values and promising order such as submission to faith and the state that is its agent, repression of the individual, brutally imposed obedience, a return to historical greatness through the Caliphate and establishing order from the present chaos. ISIS is essentially a fascist movement sweeping the region in the chaos that the US created. We have made the civil order needed to stem this tide less rather than more likely.
17
Agree with similarities between emerging ISIS and European fascism but think the main reason is disenfranchisement of Syrian and Iraqi Sunnis. Promise them (particularly Iraqi tribes) real autonomy, shower with (Saudi) money to elect moderate leaders and things may change.
NYTimes needs to point out ISIS is Sunni and Hamas is Shia. ISIS will attack Hamas regardless if Hamas is ultra extremist or not.
5
Hamas is not Shia. It is Sunni too. Someone here said it was Shia, and now everyone jumps on that as a fact.
Hamas actually got cut off recently by Iran, to force it to toe the line even though it is Sunni. Hamas gets along with Iran because it has nobody else.
Hamas would separate from Iran if it had any choice. It has a rough time with Iran even with no other choice.
It would be possible to separate Hamas from Iran. Just give it a better choice. But those who bemoan Iran would never let Hamas breathe. They drive it to Iran, and then complain about what they've done.
Hamas actually got cut off recently by Iran, to force it to toe the line even though it is Sunni. Hamas gets along with Iran because it has nobody else.
Hamas would separate from Iran if it had any choice. It has a rough time with Iran even with no other choice.
It would be possible to separate Hamas from Iran. Just give it a better choice. But those who bemoan Iran would never let Hamas breathe. They drive it to Iran, and then complain about what they've done.
2
I believe you will find that Hamas is Sunni and aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood which is Sunni.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hamas
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hamas
3
Goodness, people who don't know what they are talking about shouldn't be posting! Hamas is not Shia, though it has been criticized for taking funds from Shia Iran.
8
This is pretty funny, or perhaps ironic is the better word. Hamas is sworn to destroy Israel, but when they attack Israel, Israel pummels them. Hammas attacks again, same result. Now Hammas is just sitting around, hating Israel and planning their next attack, and it is attacked not by Israel, but by ISIS. I wonder how it feels to be on the receiving end of an unprovoked attack.
Gotta wonder if these folks ever get tired of carrying around all this hatred. It's nasty stuff, you know.
Gotta wonder if these folks ever get tired of carrying around all this hatred. It's nasty stuff, you know.
15
ISIS in Gaza, what an unanticipated outcome? All this noise from Netanyahu about Iran has been altered. 75% of Palestinians are Sunni, not Shia. Hamas is Shia. Who is the greater threat: Hamas or ISIS? Who may provoke military attacks by Israel: Hamas or ISIS? Netanyahu won his recent election based on Shia terror. He never discussed ISIS.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Hamas is not Shia, which makes me think you really don't know much about the Middle East, let alone how to defeat terrorists.
8
It looks like Hamas now will have to accept that Israel exists, and wish they were nicer to the Israelis before. I wonder how the UN will react now....When ISIS kills thousands, the UN does nothing, when Israel kills one Palestinian the world is angry and condemn Israel, such hypocrisy!
20
"When ISIS kills thousands, the UN does nothing, when Israel kills one Palestinian the world is angry"
If the Israelis only killed one Palestinian, they wouldn't be getting this reaction. It is that they kill thousands.
The world is angry at ISIS too. It isn't like they are getting a pass on their beheadings.
"It looks like Hamas now will have to accept that Israel exists"
Competition from Islamists will make it even harder to compromise with Israel. It is the same reason as the wacko right wing drags everyone else to the right in the US. A Republican right wing does not make the Democrats more liberal, only competition from the left does that.
Just so, if Israel wants to make peace with Hamas, it would need to compete. Instead, it just uses a bigger hammer on them each time.
Israel empowers the radicals of ISIS. It does not draw Hamas to moderation.
If the Israelis only killed one Palestinian, they wouldn't be getting this reaction. It is that they kill thousands.
The world is angry at ISIS too. It isn't like they are getting a pass on their beheadings.
"It looks like Hamas now will have to accept that Israel exists"
Competition from Islamists will make it even harder to compromise with Israel. It is the same reason as the wacko right wing drags everyone else to the right in the US. A Republican right wing does not make the Democrats more liberal, only competition from the left does that.
Just so, if Israel wants to make peace with Hamas, it would need to compete. Instead, it just uses a bigger hammer on them each time.
Israel empowers the radicals of ISIS. It does not draw Hamas to moderation.
4
If you kill enough jihadis, there are no more left. That's all one needs to know about ISIS and Hamas.
4
Muslims killing other Muslims. Now where have we seen that news before? In The Times and other news media, just about every day for years. Perhaps extremist Muslims who are doing the killing are a minority, as moderate Muslim leaders claim. But the occasional assertions that Islam is a religion of peace are dwarfed by the daily reports of killing, often done in the most gruesome way, supporting the growing belief that Islam is the greatest source of unrest and violence in the world.
21
It is time NYT commission some eminent Muslim clerics to deliberate as to who represents Islam in reality: among moderates and hardliners?
4
The inevitability of this saddens me. That once again the west and Israel have allowed it to happen through poor judgement, and a militancy of their own to either ignore or punish what they have created by their own actions, it's like a self fulfilling prophecy. The nations that post World War 1 and World War 2 powers created are little more than lines on a map. Religion , not race is the dominant force. Believers flock to or tacitly support, the one thing they have in common. the oppressed Palestinians have absolutely nothing to loose, ho much worse can things get for them. Hamas the west thinks is bad, but we haven't even started to see what could follow it. Israel can builds it shields, it's walls, it's fences higher and eventually it will have to do more than sit there and do nothing except defend itself. Is Israel even capably of fighting the asymmetric war Isis has been fighting? Syria is doomed as a state. Sooner or later Isis will control it, then it will be Jordan's turn and they don't even begin to have the flexibility and internal support or strength to deal with what is coming. I fear for all of the Middle East. Like an Egyptian bus when it turns off its headlights at night as oncoming traffic does the same, it's heading down a long dark road and nobody has a clue where they are going or how the journey will end.
8
So Bibi carpet bombed Gaza last summer with US weapons to clear it for ISIS to take over? No wonder he travels all over the world to bellow at the citizens of other countries to also kill children for sport if one disagrees with their parents' politics. I think he is the perfect epitome of "be careful what you ask for...." Once again, the raging moron of the Middle East has caused multiple problems for his small bigoted country. Is this what the fascist meant by the "better deal" he was repetitively calling for in Congress? I sincerely hope those war mongers aren't going to whistle for the US military to protect them when ISIS starts its war against Israel, and they all start saying how nice it was when Hamas was governing the open air prison. You reap what you sow, stupid old Bibi.
6
Of course, you ignore the fact that Israel was provoked by the Hamas' funded contract murders of three Israeli students, followed by indiscriminate rocket attacks on civilian communities where Israeli children live, in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, defining that act as a "war crime!"
"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I am going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect the Israelis to do the same thing."
-- Senator Barack H. Obama, 23 July 2008
www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/us/politics/23text-obama.html
Inducing your enemies to engage in internecine warfare is a tactic out of Sun-Tzu's "The Art of War," as well as the writings of Mao Ze-Dong and Vo Nguyen Giap. Mr. Netanyahu was wise to adopt them as a strategy!
This was the third "war of aggression," against Israel initiated by Hamas in which Gaza was appropriately pounded into submission. Hamas could have mitigated casualties and damages by accepting the Egyptian cease-fire proposal when initially offered, but chose to sacrifice the lives of Gaza residents in futile imperial ambitions.
As a U.N. member nation-state, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around!"
"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I am going to do everything in my power to stop that. And I would expect the Israelis to do the same thing."
-- Senator Barack H. Obama, 23 July 2008
www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/us/politics/23text-obama.html
Inducing your enemies to engage in internecine warfare is a tactic out of Sun-Tzu's "The Art of War," as well as the writings of Mao Ze-Dong and Vo Nguyen Giap. Mr. Netanyahu was wise to adopt them as a strategy!
This was the third "war of aggression," against Israel initiated by Hamas in which Gaza was appropriately pounded into submission. Hamas could have mitigated casualties and damages by accepting the Egyptian cease-fire proposal when initially offered, but chose to sacrifice the lives of Gaza residents in futile imperial ambitions.
As a U.N. member nation-state, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter.
There is an old Marine Corps adage about "Payback," which cannot be repeated in its entirety in a family newspaper, but in essence, "what goes around, comes around!"
3
And what kind of deal would the world like Israel to make with Gaza now. What is the final stage that the U.S or France envisions as a deal that includes the Palestinians and Gaza? Let us hear a clear statement of a viable solution from the West. One that they could live with if it were their neighbors.
There does not seem to be one that would not endanger the existence of Israel. If there is only the option of war, then it should be on Israel's terms and not ISIS.
There does not seem to be one that would not endanger the existence of Israel. If there is only the option of war, then it should be on Israel's terms and not ISIS.
24
The final stage is for Israel to get out of Gaza, West Bank, West Jerusalem, Golan Heights and let the Palestinian pick who their government is going to be even if Hamas and ISIS. Israel have no rights to pick who is the Palestinian government the same way Palestinian have no rights pushing Israel into the sea.
2
Yes, we await Israel's commitment to engage in the fight in an all on war against ISIS. They are creeping closer and closer.
1
This might be the opportune time for Israel to join together with Egypt, Hamas, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria to defeat ISIS in Gaza. This is a dangerous fire which needs to be put out immediately. United States has a dog in this fight as ISIS is bombing American targets and most likely has sleeper cells throughout the USA.
5
Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Israel would likely form such a coalition, but Hamas, which per its Covenant is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and Syria, which is struggling for its very survival and slowly being consumed by IS/Da'esh, would not. This has degenerated into a Hobbesian "war of all against all," in which the Sunnis and Shia continually fight and massacre each other. This is the Muslim world's equivalent of Europe's "Thirty Years War (1618-1648)," between Catholics and Lutherans, to determine which religion will dominate the Muslim world. Perhaps, by the 400th Anniversary of the "Peace of Westphalia (2048)," they will tire of killing each other and negotiate a modus vivende!"
4
The brutal blockade imposed by Israel, ostensibly to prevent 'terror' but in reality more like collective punishment of a whole population, is to blame here.
Of course extremists will have a chance to recruit in a festering open prison full of oppressed people. That Israel benefits from ISIS attacking Hamas might also help to explain why they are supporting them in Syria as an article in the Washington Post reported. It's a murky business and the surest way to combat extremism is to give them their freedom. End the siege of Gaza and give equal rights to both Christian and Muslim Palestinians.
Of course extremists will have a chance to recruit in a festering open prison full of oppressed people. That Israel benefits from ISIS attacking Hamas might also help to explain why they are supporting them in Syria as an article in the Washington Post reported. It's a murky business and the surest way to combat extremism is to give them their freedom. End the siege of Gaza and give equal rights to both Christian and Muslim Palestinians.
7
Why not go through Egypt? Oh, that's right, the Egyptians don't want terrorists either. There is no 'siege' of Gaza, they just can't move their weapons in as easy as they'd like. As for equal rights, they voted for Hamas, what did they think they'd get? As far as I'm concerned, this couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. If you're so concerned why don't you go be a human shield in Israel? Of course, you might save an Israeli life, something I'm not so sure you'd want.
8
The Naval blockade of Gaza has been ruled by the U.N. to be a reasonable defensive measure, following the May 2010 attempt by pro-Hamas Turkish I.H.H. terrorists to breach the blockade. Wasn't Hamas' deliberate targeting of Israeli civilian communities with rockets, in violation of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, also "collective punishment?"
As a U.N. nation-state member, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. If Hamas seeks an end to the blockade of Gaza, it must cease all hostilities against Israel and participate in negotiations to create one, or more Palestinian states, co-existing in peace with Israel!
As a U.N. nation-state member, Israel has an "inherent right to individual, or collective self-defense," as recognized under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. If Hamas seeks an end to the blockade of Gaza, it must cease all hostilities against Israel and participate in negotiations to create one, or more Palestinian states, co-existing in peace with Israel!
9
1- Exactly WHO is supposed to give equal rights to Christians. Hamas? Are there even any Christians left in Gaza? Christians already have, and have always had, equal rights in Israel.
2- The siege of Gaza is held equally by the Egyptians, who recently forcibly displaced hundreds of Egyptian families who lived on their side of the border with Gaza (with only token compensation) to dig a huge anti smuggling tunnel. If one is going to support the Gazan people rights to import freely, at least please spread the blame equitably.
2- The siege of Gaza is held equally by the Egyptians, who recently forcibly displaced hundreds of Egyptian families who lived on their side of the border with Gaza (with only token compensation) to dig a huge anti smuggling tunnel. If one is going to support the Gazan people rights to import freely, at least please spread the blame equitably.
7
Religious fundamentalism must be wiped off the map.
7
I wonder how ISIS, Al Queda and extremist militants can possibly get into Gaza between Shin Beit and the Israeli strict security? And who profits from their getting in?
5
They share a border with Egypt.
6
atombrennan: Ever hear of Egypt? Gaza has a border with Egypt, or is this news to you? Ever heard of home-grown terrorists? Not everyone in Gaza is happy with the way Hamas is running Gaza. Wonder no more.
10
Perfrect, let all these pathetic and radical jihadis spend all their time fighting and killing each other. If the free world (those who want a better life for their childfren) is fortunate they will kill each other till no one is left, and finally peace.
15
Virtually the Arab world is threatened by Islamic radical groups and all countries must shoulder their defense responsibilities of global peace security
5
No, the Muslims are fighting a civil war with their extremists proxy ISIS/Al-Qaeda/Hamas on one side vs Hazbollah on the other. Other countries should stay out and let they resolve their 1300 years differences. My money is on Shia coming on top at the end.
3
I don't know if you're right or not but I'd be willing to bet that other countries will not stay out.
1
ISIS or Daesh can be seen as trying to undo the artificial borders that were created at the end of WW I. Whether Daesh can redo those borders into something more manageable and sustainable remains to be seen. Whether the West would like such a restructuring also remains to be seen. In any case, this is an internal civil war that, unfortunately, often spills out of its realm because it is also motivated by religious belief that Islam must conquer the world.
It might be better to let the civil war run its course and then deal with the broader Islam/world conquest issue with the survivor of the civil war, which may not be Daesh.
It might be better to let the civil war run its course and then deal with the broader Islam/world conquest issue with the survivor of the civil war, which may not be Daesh.
4
Almost a century ago T.E. Lawrence wrote "The Seven Pillars of Wisdom" chronicling his efforts on behalf of Great Britain to unite the Arabs against the Ottoman Empire during World War I. In many ways, little has changed in the intervening years. Had Administrations and Congresses read his book, it is doubtful they would have labored under the twin illusions that the countries in the Middle East between Egypt and Iran are real, not just jury-rigged, colonial legacy entities, and that they have an interest in welcoming democracy to their tribal reality, let alone welcoming such offered at the point of U.S. arms.
Fifteen years ago, not one in a thousand Americans knew of Sunnis and Shiites, let alone Salafists and Wahabis. Unfortunately, it appears neither successive Administrations, State Departments. Intelligence Agencies, nor Congresses were any better informed.
We have an Intelligence apparatus unparalleled in collecting data. Even more unfortunately, that apparatus has failed miserably at analyzing the data collected. As those agencies have more and more veered into data collection, operations, and telling Presidents what they want to hear, they have largely punted on their primary mission: to analyze data and present our elected leaders with excellent, unpoliticized analysis.
Fifteen years ago, not one in a thousand Americans knew of Sunnis and Shiites, let alone Salafists and Wahabis. Unfortunately, it appears neither successive Administrations, State Departments. Intelligence Agencies, nor Congresses were any better informed.
We have an Intelligence apparatus unparalleled in collecting data. Even more unfortunately, that apparatus has failed miserably at analyzing the data collected. As those agencies have more and more veered into data collection, operations, and telling Presidents what they want to hear, they have largely punted on their primary mission: to analyze data and present our elected leaders with excellent, unpoliticized analysis.
24
So, ISIS is now in Gaza and is gaining strength? And the world pressures Israel to open its border with Gaza?
69
Israel pretends that Hamas is terrible. They are Shia. ISIS is Sunni, the faction that attacked America, an offshoot of Al Qaeda, Wahhabi, Salfist Sunni extremists. Yet Israel fears Muslims from the Shia sect.
Most Palestinians are Sunni, not Shia. Hamas has a minority position in Gaza. The is grave danger to Israel if ISIS spreads in the occupied territories. It will spread and is spreading. Saudi Arabia has bought nuclear technology from France, has vast military capability, is the origin of Wahhabi, Al Qaeda, ISIS belief. Does Israel imagine that the Saudis are friends?
Most Palestinians are Sunni, not Shia. Hamas has a minority position in Gaza. The is grave danger to Israel if ISIS spreads in the occupied territories. It will spread and is spreading. Saudi Arabia has bought nuclear technology from France, has vast military capability, is the origin of Wahhabi, Al Qaeda, ISIS belief. Does Israel imagine that the Saudis are friends?
1
Absurd, isn't it? But here's classic Times re: Israel/Gaza:
"Whether imposed by God or unfriendly neighbors, the wretched conditions...."
No, not imposed by God or unfriendly neighbors - self imposed by murderous thugs who channel what's left of international aid and taxes after graft into a sophisticated terror apparatus. There was no "siege" during the time between Israel's departure from Gaza and Hamas's putsch; it was the rocketry and terror Hamas launched thereafter that buried Gazans in "wretched conditions"
Tough and inconvenient truth for many to accept.
"Whether imposed by God or unfriendly neighbors, the wretched conditions...."
No, not imposed by God or unfriendly neighbors - self imposed by murderous thugs who channel what's left of international aid and taxes after graft into a sophisticated terror apparatus. There was no "siege" during the time between Israel's departure from Gaza and Hamas's putsch; it was the rocketry and terror Hamas launched thereafter that buried Gazans in "wretched conditions"
Tough and inconvenient truth for many to accept.
7
The problem is the vicious cycles that take place in Gaza. As the situation gets worse the people of Gaza turn to more `radical entities to solve there problems ( mostly economic) first the PLO then Hamas and now off shoots of ISIS. Aa they get more radicalized Israel and now egypt lock down gaza and they get no help. War breaks out the world goes crazy they then promise economic aid to rebuild Gaza and they do not deliver so Gaza turns to more radical elements and the cycle continues of all sides working against what they really want to achieve
We are, very naturally, seeking reasons to explain the ISIS rise in Gaza and elsewhere, the Syrian and Iraqi civil wars, the rise and fall of Islamists in Egypt, the mess in Libya, Saudi's direct war in Yemen and Iran's proxy one, the massacre in Tunisia and let's not forget the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. While the list is considerably longer, this should do to make the point, which is this: Each conflict has its experts and explanations, some explanations consistent with others and some not. Many of those responding, as well as the authors of this article, provide a reason or two of their own. Because neither the world nor conflicts are simple, most of the reasons have some truth to them--even those that are seemingly contradictory. However, there is one phenomenon is ignored by all, which is a common thread running through Near East and North African history for about 1,400 years. In this part of the world it has been a long standing tradition to solve problems, or attempt to solve them, by killing. It is culturally hardwired into the region and long predates Bush and Cheney and, for that matter, George Washington. While a local problem might be temporarily solved by some intervention or another, a change will not come until the prevailing culture has changed--until children will be taught the value of life and human rights respected. And this is unlikely to happen any time soon. The killing then will go on.
29
It is conceivable that the killing got accelerated because of the very rapid growth in population over the past 100 yrs. It seems that everytime there is an article in the NYT or elsewhere about refugees from one place escaping to another, the families mentioned have no less than 9 chidren. To pretend that this does not lead to poverty, and hence to hopelessness, is foolish.
2
The Israelis say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
2
You are right, Lucy.
That much we know. ISrael and IS are not just friends, they are one and the same. Different religious background, same agenda.
That much we know. ISrael and IS are not just friends, they are one and the same. Different religious background, same agenda.
That adage has never applied to the Middle East. The one about the scorpion and the frog is a much better one to describe the region. A scorpion was eager to cross the river. A frog nervously kept his distance. The scorpion asked him to carry him over the stream. The frog demurred but the scorpion reassured him that he was safe as the scorpion would drown if he bit the frog. The frog agreed. Halfway across the scorpion bit him. In his last breath the frog asked why? The scorpion answer was, it's my nature as he drowned.
2
No, actually they say "the enemy of my enemy is my frenemy".
Another example of why the United States has no dog in the fight in the Middle East. A pox on all of their houses. Let ISIS, Iran, Syria, Hamas, Shiite, Sunni and Israel do what they do best...hold thousand-year-old-religious-based grudges and wage unending war. Once the dust clears, extend a hand of friendship to the winner. If it is rejected, use the full force of the U.S. military to end this for once and for all. No tip-toeing around; no boots on the ground. Use anything and everything in our arsenal for a decisive win that is decades overdue.
10
Instead, end our addiction to fossil fuels and watch the region devolve into insignificance. Oil keeps us in the game. We can't afford it anymore. It is changing the climate.
Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the United States is so solicitous of Saudi Arabia? And I don't think oil cuts it anymore....
15
Mistaken belief that Saudis can control the Sunni majority and be a counterweight to Iran. Personally I think we should ditch the Saudis and do what we can to repair the relationship with Iran...a real place, with a real culture (albeit one that is currently stalled and mired in theocratic hair splitting.)
Without oil the Saudi should be and are very unvital to our long-term national priorities.
Without oil the Saudi should be and are very unvital to our long-term national priorities.
1
Oil is still important, until we learn teleportation and telekinesis
Sauds have kept prices low by increasing production, for YEARS, helping our economy
Sauds are PAYING us by lower oil prices via higher production
I hope this helps you understand why we are (were) solicitous of them
after all we saved them from Saddam
now we have abandoned them, and all of these ME people, remembering only to badger Israel, and nuclearize Iran, and Sauds now have photo ops in Russia
helluva job Barry
BTW Solar and renewable are fantasies and boondoggles for preferred crony capitalists
Sauds have kept prices low by increasing production, for YEARS, helping our economy
Sauds are PAYING us by lower oil prices via higher production
I hope this helps you understand why we are (were) solicitous of them
after all we saved them from Saddam
now we have abandoned them, and all of these ME people, remembering only to badger Israel, and nuclearize Iran, and Sauds now have photo ops in Russia
helluva job Barry
BTW Solar and renewable are fantasies and boondoggles for preferred crony capitalists
1
I would think that Big Oil has too much infra-structure invested in Saudi Arabia now to just walk away. They will just do what it takes through political influence to protect their profits or stem their losses while the world goes to Hell in a hand basket.
I don't want to sound like an alarmist, but this may very well be just the tip of the iceberg. The Arab/Muslim world is rapidly descending into chaos. It is losing its grip on civilization. This didn't happen overnight.
It is the result of decades of despair, hopelessness and oppression. When people are suffering, they will reach for anything they think will relieve it. Statements in this article give the impression that the successes on the battlefield for ISIS has given legitimacy to their cause. Again, as in many of history's wars, the aggressors lay claim to having divine support, further justifying their actions.
Many religious scholars of the Abrahamic tradition would deny that justification, but that really doesn't matter. All that matters is that enough people believe it to make it happen.
I used to have a Palestinian friend that told me no one stands up to Hamas. These are very rough characters. In today's Middle East, Hamas is not rough enough. ISIS has stepped in to push the brutality levels even further, all justified by a religious belief.
What we call extremism today, we called barbarism 20 years ago. It has nothing to do with religion. As usual, the weakest and most oppressed, will suffer the most. It is spreading like wildfire throughout the Arab world and no one knows how to stop it.
It is the result of decades of despair, hopelessness and oppression. When people are suffering, they will reach for anything they think will relieve it. Statements in this article give the impression that the successes on the battlefield for ISIS has given legitimacy to their cause. Again, as in many of history's wars, the aggressors lay claim to having divine support, further justifying their actions.
Many religious scholars of the Abrahamic tradition would deny that justification, but that really doesn't matter. All that matters is that enough people believe it to make it happen.
I used to have a Palestinian friend that told me no one stands up to Hamas. These are very rough characters. In today's Middle East, Hamas is not rough enough. ISIS has stepped in to push the brutality levels even further, all justified by a religious belief.
What we call extremism today, we called barbarism 20 years ago. It has nothing to do with religion. As usual, the weakest and most oppressed, will suffer the most. It is spreading like wildfire throughout the Arab world and no one knows how to stop it.
40
Islam is tearing itself apart.
It is effectively having its version of the 30 years war: immensely destructive war, ostensibly motivated by a novel and fundamentalist interpretation of an old religion, but in reality solely motivated by power and greed.
Lebanon (via Hezbollah), Gaza (via Hamas), Large parts of Syria (via Assad), and most of Iraq (via the Iraqi government) are today effectively controlled by Iran. Iran's forces fight ISIS, but no one in the region has benefited more from ISIS than Iran.
ISIS is, or at least were, supported by Turkey and the Gulf states, who at least initially saw it as a means to contain Iran's regional aspirations. But the only result is that they've all lost influence.
US loyal allies, the Kurds? They fight ISIS, but don't want to wipe it out -- ISIS have given them something they've never had: a real chance of carving out a nation state for the Kurds.
The simple truth is that no one wants ISIS defeated. Everyone just wants it to channel it so it keeps attacking _their_ enemies.
Of course, the actual fanatics fighting for ISIS know nothing of this. They rape and murder for the Lord, completely oblivious to the fact that they're pawns being played by half a dozen powers.
It is effectively having its version of the 30 years war: immensely destructive war, ostensibly motivated by a novel and fundamentalist interpretation of an old religion, but in reality solely motivated by power and greed.
Lebanon (via Hezbollah), Gaza (via Hamas), Large parts of Syria (via Assad), and most of Iraq (via the Iraqi government) are today effectively controlled by Iran. Iran's forces fight ISIS, but no one in the region has benefited more from ISIS than Iran.
ISIS is, or at least were, supported by Turkey and the Gulf states, who at least initially saw it as a means to contain Iran's regional aspirations. But the only result is that they've all lost influence.
US loyal allies, the Kurds? They fight ISIS, but don't want to wipe it out -- ISIS have given them something they've never had: a real chance of carving out a nation state for the Kurds.
The simple truth is that no one wants ISIS defeated. Everyone just wants it to channel it so it keeps attacking _their_ enemies.
Of course, the actual fanatics fighting for ISIS know nothing of this. They rape and murder for the Lord, completely oblivious to the fact that they're pawns being played by half a dozen powers.
3
WRONG - the latency of Islamic imperialism is just below the surface and is activated by religious appeal, along with military success
1
There is a concept in Islam which is depicted in El Mesed Surah, which states that the person or a group whose main goal in the life , particularly causing sufferance to Muslims. This was a topic which was very important part of Islam's early history in Mecca. The crystalized example of that historical personality is Abu Leheb who is not other than Prophets own uncle.
So, However Abu Leheb was pagan, The concept of causing suffering stayed in the Islamic theology.
ISIS and its predecessors are pure Abu Lehebist.
They deserve the condemnation of gods own words.
So, However Abu Leheb was pagan, The concept of causing suffering stayed in the Islamic theology.
ISIS and its predecessors are pure Abu Lehebist.
They deserve the condemnation of gods own words.
4
Virtually every Arab and Muslim nation is threatened by ISIS. You would think that collectively they would work to eliminate ISIS. As Bill Maher pointed out, their armies consist of millions of soldiers... why does this become our problem?
46
There's not a chance that Egypt on its border will allow Gaza to be taken over by Daesh.
6
Egypt is having problems keeping it's own house in order.
It's economy is in the toilet, its population growth out of control, and without international handouts there would be a revolution tomorrow.
It's economy is in the toilet, its population growth out of control, and without international handouts there would be a revolution tomorrow.
2
ISIS is already in Sinai and will be energized if could get into Gaza. IDF in West Bank paradoxically is protecting the Palestinian from ISIS. If ISIS will be in West Bank Jordan will not survive either. West Bank and Gaza can turn into a Muslim blood bath of biblical proportions because of ISIS is the greatest killer of Muslims and can only be deterred by IDF. The hate game against Israel must stop as Israel is the only stabilizing force in the region. Israel must be supported and strengthened. The peace initiatives have to be tabled until stability is reached. Some readers , I presume, will prefer ISIS over Israel......Nothing will surprise me.
62
The fighting between Al-Qaeda, and ISIS, Jabhat al Nusra and ISIS, or Muslim Brotherhood and ISIS is really not of differing ideology, they all are Deobandi/Wahabi/Salafis. It is the power struggle between the extremists interpretation of this variant ideology in Islam. Who could be more brutal is their calling card.
Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Israel are all using one or the other group to achieve their own political ends. It is a shame that people are dying for the ulterior motives of these three countries.
Turkey wants the Kurds to be oppressed so they make it easy for ISIS to invade/attack Kobani; Saudia wants to oppress the Shia Muslims of the Persian Gulf and Yemen so they support ISIS, Al-Qaeda etc to propagate the sectarian narrative to kill Shia Muslims; Israel wants to let the ISIS just kill others whether Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood or Hezbollah (Shia).
It is only a matter of time when this Saudi brand of Ideology would create a havoc in the US. We must crush the snakes head in order to kill it. Time is now to stop all Saudi/GCC funded so called Mosques and Community centers and require that this deviant ideology not be taught anywhere out side Saudia. There is no logic to the Najdi ideology, even the Ibn Saud (Abdulaziz ) used it for his political ends and the Saudis are still using it for their political ends to stay in power.
Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Israel are all using one or the other group to achieve their own political ends. It is a shame that people are dying for the ulterior motives of these three countries.
Turkey wants the Kurds to be oppressed so they make it easy for ISIS to invade/attack Kobani; Saudia wants to oppress the Shia Muslims of the Persian Gulf and Yemen so they support ISIS, Al-Qaeda etc to propagate the sectarian narrative to kill Shia Muslims; Israel wants to let the ISIS just kill others whether Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood or Hezbollah (Shia).
It is only a matter of time when this Saudi brand of Ideology would create a havoc in the US. We must crush the snakes head in order to kill it. Time is now to stop all Saudi/GCC funded so called Mosques and Community centers and require that this deviant ideology not be taught anywhere out side Saudia. There is no logic to the Najdi ideology, even the Ibn Saud (Abdulaziz ) used it for his political ends and the Saudis are still using it for their political ends to stay in power.
18
'The extremists themselves point to what they say is God’s displeasure in Hamas...' This says it all. Any one claiming to speak on 'God's behalf', and that includes American politicians, is not deserving of a negotiating partner. Leave 'God' and your ideas about Him/Her out of it. Speak of things you can see and hear rather than fantasies that you believe empower you to do whatever it is that 'God intends' you to do.
18
Perhaps Hamas should take a page out of the Palestinian Authority playbook and formally join the International Criminal Court (ICC) and give the court jurisdiction over alleged ISIS crimes in Gaza.
8
...and ISIS is sure to appear in the Hague to answer the rap sheet, eh?
3
There is no court with enough clout or clarity of vision to deal with Hamas or ISIS, even if either one were to appear before those benighted judges.
Don't think it possible. IS is certainly not recognized as a state. They need first to go to the UN and be declared a state by that august body.
ISIS was created by the US indirectly through their illegal invasion of Iraq. ISIS is funded by Saudi Arabia America's so called ally in the Middle East. Hamas was propped up by Israel to counter the more secular PLO. ISIS in Gaza is the natural end game of US-Saudi-Israeli collusion to create a monster they can show the world to justify not only an unending war on terror but the continuing siege of Gaza. ISIS in the West Bank is the next step, and given the success of the BDS movement , the extremist in Israel know they have to act quick.
25
@Luis, complete and total nonsense. This may be news to you, but there is a long history of inter-Arab rivalry and Sunni-Shiite hostility in the Middle East, and many times things happen there that are not the fault of Israel or the US.
45
Of course, it's G.W.Bush's fault. What need did he have to invade Irak, when the main threat was -still is- Iran?
And many times things happen there certainly ARE not the fault of Israel or the US.
1
ISIS is like the bubonic plague, i.e., Black Death. And it looks like it will wipe out the entire Middle East and Maghreb before the end of this decade. How can George Bush and Dick Cheney sleep at night knowing they're directly responsible for unleashing this pestilence on the people of that region? I guess it's because they lack a conscience and a soul. It makes me so sick to think about all the people who have suffered and will continue to suffer because of their reckless actions and criminal behavior.
56
Muslims have been killing each other for 1300 years
go blame them for green on green 'warfare' (massacre and butchery and genocide)
go blame them for green on green 'warfare' (massacre and butchery and genocide)
2
Bush and Cheney committed the U.S. to a policy of "War for the sake of war", putting the U.S. into a permanent state of undeclared war for the benefit of the corporations, which prosper thanks to pay-outs from the U.S. Treasury, which become part of the national deficit that we all owe.
ISIS is also committed to the concept of "War for the sake of war", however, ISIS' is driven by ideological reasons (In Islam martyrs for God go directly to the Paradise).
In the end there is not much practical difference between the U.S. government and ISIS for most of the world's peoples.
ISIS is also committed to the concept of "War for the sake of war", however, ISIS' is driven by ideological reasons (In Islam martyrs for God go directly to the Paradise).
In the end there is not much practical difference between the U.S. government and ISIS for most of the world's peoples.
8
Extremism begets extremism.
Fatah launched terror attacks against Israeli civilians, slaughtering women and children; but that was not extreme enough for some, and so they begot Hamas.
Hamas tied young Fatah men to the back of motorcycles and dragged them through the streets of Gaza until their skin peeled off; but that was not extreme enough for some, and so they begot ISIS in Gaza.
ISIS drowns young men in cages, soaks them with gasoline and burns them alive, while broadcasting it all over the internet with music and sound effects. What Frankenstein will they produce?
Welcome to the neighborhood. These are Israel's neighbors. The ones it's supposed to trust to build an independent state within 7 miles of it's major civilian populations.
(Oh, I forget to mention that nice eye-doctor who lives up the block, who gasses whole villages in his free time, as well as that lovely group of old men in black turbans a few blocks over who smile in all directions and mumble things about uranium and peace deals as they build a nuclear bomb.)
Fatah launched terror attacks against Israeli civilians, slaughtering women and children; but that was not extreme enough for some, and so they begot Hamas.
Hamas tied young Fatah men to the back of motorcycles and dragged them through the streets of Gaza until their skin peeled off; but that was not extreme enough for some, and so they begot ISIS in Gaza.
ISIS drowns young men in cages, soaks them with gasoline and burns them alive, while broadcasting it all over the internet with music and sound effects. What Frankenstein will they produce?
Welcome to the neighborhood. These are Israel's neighbors. The ones it's supposed to trust to build an independent state within 7 miles of it's major civilian populations.
(Oh, I forget to mention that nice eye-doctor who lives up the block, who gasses whole villages in his free time, as well as that lovely group of old men in black turbans a few blocks over who smile in all directions and mumble things about uranium and peace deals as they build a nuclear bomb.)
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And while this extremism was begetting further extremism, Israel, of course, had nothing to do with it. They were just innocent bystanders...
9
Let's not forget that Israel is the original ISIS, a group using sacred texts to perform ethnic and religious cleansing. ISIS claims to represent Allah and Israel claims to represent YHVH.
2
You hit the nail right on the head.
5
The logic of Islamist fanatics is endless killing - including each other. It won't be long before ISIS split into rival factions vying for their share of the loot. Let's not forget it is a huge criminal business enterprise. Compared to ISIS, Hamas are just beggars manipulated by their sponsors (Qatar, Iran) while inflicting misery and despair on their population.
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"The logic of Islamist fanatics is endless killing"
Yes.
The logic of the US and Israel is also endless killing.
It is endless killing on all sides. Nobody is presenting any other logic.
Yes.
The logic of the US and Israel is also endless killing.
It is endless killing on all sides. Nobody is presenting any other logic.
2
THIS was expected, however the reason is not as described by the authors of this Article.
Firstly ISIS is created by the Wahhabi House of Saud to re-launch the Barbaric Religious, Cultural and Economic Genocide of non-Wahhabis that originally started in 632-AD by Islamic Empire's infamous founder "Umar ibn Al-Khattāb" and recreate the Arab Empire under the excuse of preserving Islam!?
Secondly, Hamas is an offshoot of Muslim Brotherhood which is the arch enemy of the House of Saud as is evidenced by the Coup against "Egypt's Legitimately Elected President, Mr. Morsi".
IN essence the House of Saud sees Hamas as the continuation of Muslim Brotherhood's threat against them and their Dictator cousins in the Persian Gulf and it is understandable where ISIS's marching orders are coming from.
IN a crazy way, Israel may end up saving Hamas so not to end up with Genocidal Wahhabis at its borders!
AND that may finally bring Peace to Palestine in another Crazy and Unexpected Way!
Firstly ISIS is created by the Wahhabi House of Saud to re-launch the Barbaric Religious, Cultural and Economic Genocide of non-Wahhabis that originally started in 632-AD by Islamic Empire's infamous founder "Umar ibn Al-Khattāb" and recreate the Arab Empire under the excuse of preserving Islam!?
Secondly, Hamas is an offshoot of Muslim Brotherhood which is the arch enemy of the House of Saud as is evidenced by the Coup against "Egypt's Legitimately Elected President, Mr. Morsi".
IN essence the House of Saud sees Hamas as the continuation of Muslim Brotherhood's threat against them and their Dictator cousins in the Persian Gulf and it is understandable where ISIS's marching orders are coming from.
IN a crazy way, Israel may end up saving Hamas so not to end up with Genocidal Wahhabis at its borders!
AND that may finally bring Peace to Palestine in another Crazy and Unexpected Way!
24
The incredible volatility of these radical people is hard to understand. I can't understand how they can turn on their own, just as easily as they can turn on those they consider to be infidels.
4
You don't know your history.
During the Christian crusades of the Dark Ages, Christian crusaders killed more Christians than they killed Muslims.
And Christian crusaders also killed more Christians than did the Muslims fighting the Christians.
According to the Islamic calendar, Muslims live in the 14th century A.H.
During the 14th century A.D., Christians were the world's leading barbarians.
During the Christian crusades of the Dark Ages, Christian crusaders killed more Christians than they killed Muslims.
And Christian crusaders also killed more Christians than did the Muslims fighting the Christians.
According to the Islamic calendar, Muslims live in the 14th century A.H.
During the 14th century A.D., Christians were the world's leading barbarians.
2
Although I agree with most of your points re the creation, support, and logistics by the Saudis, and the Turks, however the main beneficiaries of ISIS seems to be Israel and Saudi Arabia. In Syria on the border of Israel, regardless of what the ISIS spokesperson talks about Israel, ISIS has yet to fire a shot towards ISrael and Israel has not helped US against ISIS at all.
ISIS is killing only the so perceived arch enemies of Israel and Saudia - the Shia Muslims as their main target, whether in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, or Iraq ISIS keep killing Shia Muslims.
One more point is the fact that the majority of Persian Gulf Muslims are Shia Muslims according to the CIA world fact book.
ISIS is killing only the so perceived arch enemies of Israel and Saudia - the Shia Muslims as their main target, whether in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, or Iraq ISIS keep killing Shia Muslims.
One more point is the fact that the majority of Persian Gulf Muslims are Shia Muslims according to the CIA world fact book.
1
Talk about us being bulls in the china shop that is the Middle East. We unleashed this and really, all the troops in the world will most likely not be able to put Humpty together again. They are going to have to run out of steam in terms of $$ and followers.
8
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest, I would put the current ISIS threat to Isreal at about a 1, the current Hamas threat to Isreal at about a 2, the current Hezbollah threat to Isreal at about 3, and President Obama's nuclear-deal-with-Iran at 0.
18
Thanks for that explanation of Israel's threats. You sound like a true expert...
27
No one is going to deny that our meddling in the Mid East was a very stupid thing to do, and I'm tired of listening to all the Monday morning quarterbacks. But if the sovereign countries of the regions don't seriously step up to the plate along with the western nations. This is just going to drag along and maybe explode into something that will only be harder to eradicate in the future.
15
If the United States Congress cared as much about Palestinian lives and safety as it did Israeli lives and safety there would be no way for ISIS to gain a foothold in Gaza.
30
How so?
10
The United States cared for Iraqi lives and created ISIS. I shudder to think what might happen if, suggested, the U.S. actively began "caring" for Palestinian lives.
1
Actually, if Hamas cared about Palestinian lives and safety there might not be a way for ISIS to gain a foothold in Gaza.
7
If Israel believes ISIS is preferable to Hamas, well then that is bad news for the war against ISIS.
1
If ISIS started anything with Israel, Israel would have no problem unleashing what ever it took to try and defeat ISIS. Israel is a non apologetic pitbull. They've proven that time and time again.
6
So where have our great "allies" been for the rise of Isis?-Probably the most one-sided and disasterous alliance in US history.
5srael has not proven any ability to fight outside of its borders--the only incursion executed by the Israeli Army was the disasterous 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the formers "Viet Nam."
5srael has not proven any ability to fight outside of its borders--the only incursion executed by the Israeli Army was the disasterous 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the formers "Viet Nam."
2
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the highest, I would put the current ISIS threat to Israel at about a 3, the current Hamas threat to Israel at about a 4, the current Hezbollah threat to Israel at about a 5, and President Obama's nuclear-deal-with-Iran threat to Israel at 11.
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A. Stanton, your order of threats against Israeli security is the same as Israel's assessment.
3
I agree with your assessment.
1
The Christians had it out centuries ago in a bloody and equally horrific manner, I say we (the West) stay outta this and let them have it out. I'm all for protecting our interests abroad, but when we end up on the same side as Iran you have to question why we're there at all
8
History teaches us that there are no final answers in world politics, whether it is the Shah of Iran who was our policeman for decades and worked rather well for us. Maybe it was a mistake to fight for 35 years with a logical country and President Obama and Secretary of State Kerry are wise to patch up things, it certainly would be not so good for the current bullies of the area.
6
If the Middle East doesn't take care of the problem that's eating them alive, they're not going to have a choice but to welcome foreign intervention.
3
These extremists will succeed in choking off cooperation between Gaza and Egypt-ISIS can be very proud of worsening the poverty in Gaza. The irony of all these sprouting crazies is to actually make Hamas more cooperative, than less, with Israel.
Perhaps it's time for the PA to cut their ties with Gaza and become their own separate entity. If not for the UN having falsely convinced them they must stick together (and while there is some overlap in both areas of extended clans, they are largely not the same people), the PA could/should work out their agreements (or none) with Israel on its own terms. Let Gaza resolve how to forge ahead. This would also force Hamas to face reality, which alone would improve their situation.
Perhaps it's time for the PA to cut their ties with Gaza and become their own separate entity. If not for the UN having falsely convinced them they must stick together (and while there is some overlap in both areas of extended clans, they are largely not the same people), the PA could/should work out their agreements (or none) with Israel on its own terms. Let Gaza resolve how to forge ahead. This would also force Hamas to face reality, which alone would improve their situation.
26
No one has done more to promote loyalty to groups like Hamas and ISIS than has Israel.
7
Israel has absolutely nothing to do with ISIS' rise and policies. Just more scapegoating on your part.
32
How did you interpret my comment to mean Israel has something to do with ISIS? Much of the Arab world has become radicalized, and truly little of that is because of the Palestinian-Israeli problem. But some Palestinians are vulnerable to the "attraction" of ISIS. Seems to me that Israel has become your scapegoat.
13