If these petty sellers get a decent job training during childhood, good manners teaching they in their adulthood will be able to earn livelhood b not by adopting to illegal things but by becoming law abiding citizens. That will be a long time strategie to stop crime. But it will fetch long lasting results. No one lies to earn a living always dodging police or doing wrong( His/her heart says to him/her -what i am doing is bad) Long term solution to problem can be make them good from childhood
10
As a former police officer I will start by saying: spend an 8 hour tour in my shoes and let me know how your day went. The story told here in the NYTimes is thorough. There are only losers in this story. There were several "things" working against each other in this story. There were complaints about Mr. Garner and others in the area regarding "low level" criminal activity. The complaints rose to the level of sending officers to investigate. Some time before he died, Mr Garner was warned to cease his illegal activity. Here in lies the rub: $ from his illegal activity comprised his "wages and salary". Eric Garner's family depended on money made from an illegal act. Garner refused to submit to being arrested on the day of his death. This caused the NYPD to use force in order to arrest him. Was this right? Ask yourself that question from PO Panteleo's point of view. Put yourself in his shoes. Garner had been warned, yet continued his illegal behavior. The BIG Bosses said; do something about this situation. So Panteleo used his training and maneuvered Garner to the ground. There were many missteps from there. Garner's health was less than optimum. The ambulance/medics were called, but not with the appropriate codes for the emergency. But I can't help but go back to the beginning: A MAN WHO MADE HIS LIVING FROM ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. WHAT PUT HIM IN THAT SITUATION? WE NEED TO SOLVE THE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS. And that is a not Police Response. No cop starts his tour out to kill someone.
40
I'm impressed by the amount of work that went into this article and by the miscarriages of justice it reveals--fatally aggressive policing; a police "investigation" that concealed the truth; and a prosecutor who coached witnesses in such a way as to insure that justice would not be served. In sorting through these details, I'm equally struck by the forest that is not mentioned for all these trees--namely, the subject of race. How can one write an exhaustive piece about Eric Garner without ever asking whether the racial attitudes of police officers in Staten Island might have contributed to the way in which he was approached and assaulted? How can one write about the death of Eric Garner without ever mentioning the word racism? How can we prevent more Eric Garners without pulling the camera back from these details--both shocking and sadly predictable--and having an honest national conversation about race?
11
Thank you for the background details. But a man died senselessly and unnecessarily for the minor infraction of reselling untaxed out-of-state cigarettes (possession of which is not illegal) on a stretch of sidewalk where he was a familiar sight for years. He died thanks to the efforts of at least six police officers (including two sergeants) and at least five medical personnel present at the scene. One of the officers wrapped his arm around Mr. Garner's neck, a "chokehold" according to NYPD patrol rules, which state: "Members of the NYPD will NOT use chokeholds.... A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe which may prevent or hinder breathing to reduce intakes of air." Those are the essential facts of the matter. There is no excuse for trained police officers to have done what they did.
13
How can these police and prosecutors live with themselves?
13
To those commenters who say that loitering is not a crime:
When men hang out on a corner or sit on other people's cars for hours, they smoke, spit, litter, and eventually urinate against fences and high SUVs where they think no one can see them. They get rowdy after dark, destroying any hope of sleep for the rest of us, who need to get up at 5:15am for work.
Often they case homes, check windows, steal tires and whole cars and break into garages. Seeing people leave their homes, they burgle those homes.
You say no? I live in such a neighborhood. And I think that men hanging out for hours day and night are a menace. Gentrification? I can only wish.
When men hang out on a corner or sit on other people's cars for hours, they smoke, spit, litter, and eventually urinate against fences and high SUVs where they think no one can see them. They get rowdy after dark, destroying any hope of sleep for the rest of us, who need to get up at 5:15am for work.
Often they case homes, check windows, steal tires and whole cars and break into garages. Seeing people leave their homes, they burgle those homes.
You say no? I live in such a neighborhood. And I think that men hanging out for hours day and night are a menace. Gentrification? I can only wish.
17
First thing first. I feel very sorry for Gardner. It was sad and tragic. Here I do not want to talk about if such a trivial violation deserves an arrest or if the blacks are mistreated by cops. If you ask, I would say no to the first question and yes to the second.
I want to focus on a technical issue. If one resists arrest, what can a cop do? I do not think a handshake or a back-patting will do the trick. Nor do I think it is a good idea to throw a punch or to do a karate kick, or to use a club, a Taser, or a gun. If you think that talking the suspect into submission is a good idea, I would agree with you. But it would take time, and sometimes a cop knows he or she has to take a quick action. Under this circumstance, A chokehold seems a rather effective way of arresting a suspect. Anything can cause death. A shout may lead to a heart attack. I are genuinely interested in how an arrest can be made.
I want to focus on a technical issue. If one resists arrest, what can a cop do? I do not think a handshake or a back-patting will do the trick. Nor do I think it is a good idea to throw a punch or to do a karate kick, or to use a club, a Taser, or a gun. If you think that talking the suspect into submission is a good idea, I would agree with you. But it would take time, and sometimes a cop knows he or she has to take a quick action. Under this circumstance, A chokehold seems a rather effective way of arresting a suspect. Anything can cause death. A shout may lead to a heart attack. I are genuinely interested in how an arrest can be made.
16
Eric Garner reportedly sold untaxed cigarettes - though there still has been no evidence presented that he sold cigarettes on the date of his demise. A few weeks ago JP Morgan Chase and several other multinational banks admitted that they rigged the global foreign-exchange market resulting in billions if not trillions of dollars in losses for unsuspecting investors. Needless to say, despite the offending banks being assessed an aggregate five billion dollar fine (on a much greater amount of ill-gotten gains), no bankers were confronted, placed in a chokehold, arrested, prosecuted and certainly not killed. One thing we can say about "Broken Windows" police - it's definitely broken!
24
If you read a report like this and you read it without putting it in the context of how black and poor folks have been forced to live in this nation over our long sordid history then I can't imagine how you could hope to ever be part of any meaningful change in this great nation of ours. I hardly blame the cops other than I would blame anyone for failing to recognize the humanity of a man like Eric Garner. I see it almost every day, the objectification of my fellow man and woman. Until that stops, there will be more stories like this.
5
Don't ask why minorities run from the police when stopped for any reason, even trivial ones. They know that even when handled in the manner this man was handled, the police will get off.
What we have today are poorly trained police, not just how to handle weapons, but how to treat others. We especially need to teach values. It has become routine for police to kill someone stopped for a petty crime if that person is afraid of them (for good reason) and runs. The end justifies the means, even if you are only talking about pennies or a minor crime.
When will enough of this kind of treatment be enough? How long will we be just people standing by, at best taking pictures?
What we have today are poorly trained police, not just how to handle weapons, but how to treat others. We especially need to teach values. It has become routine for police to kill someone stopped for a petty crime if that person is afraid of them (for good reason) and runs. The end justifies the means, even if you are only talking about pennies or a minor crime.
When will enough of this kind of treatment be enough? How long will we be just people standing by, at best taking pictures?
12
Gardner and all of the recent police related perp death cases have one very important trait in common. Each perp resisted arrest and refused to comply with commands.
16
Akai Gurley's case was "recent." He didn't "resist arrest." I only attempted to walk down the stairs of his apartment complex. On another note, by now you should know how to spell Mr. Garner's name.
10
@Alan
How was Tamir Rice resisting arrest just standing with a gun in an open carry state when he was shot? What about John Crawford, who was shot dead in a Walmart with no attempt to arrest him. Think about how long the Mafia thrived in this country--murderers, extortionists, etc.--without a single Mafia member being (accidentally?) killed by a policeman. How could that happen?
How was Tamir Rice resisting arrest just standing with a gun in an open carry state when he was shot? What about John Crawford, who was shot dead in a Walmart with no attempt to arrest him. Think about how long the Mafia thrived in this country--murderers, extortionists, etc.--without a single Mafia member being (accidentally?) killed by a policeman. How could that happen?
15
I am appreciative of this article and my heart aches for the family of Eric Garner. I believe the actions of the police and the EMT responders are indications of a wide spread institutionalization and acceptance of a certain lack of human caring and racism.
Here is why I say this: Three times in the last year I have encountered unconscious men lying in the street. All in middle class primarily white neighborhoods.Two of the men were white, one was Latino. I called 911 and remained until help arrived. I was appalled by the actions of the EMT's, who in each case screamed at the men, shook them and handled them roughly, before even investigating whether there were any injuries.
Police and EMT jobs are tough, as they routinely encounter people who are on the edges of society and often upset about it. Their actions here and elsewhere are symptomatic of our larger society. They include the actions of the police brass who ordered the arrest, of the police who arrested and provided the force that in conjunction with his fragile health condition resulted in his death, the EMTs who responded and did very little to aid him, the the police brass, unions and the prosecutors who defended the actions, the newspapers and TV programs that don't seek truth and all of us who let our feelings of powerlessness take over us - it's time to change. It is time to act humanly ourselves and demand that our society have as its principle goal the well-being of its citizens. All of them.
Here is why I say this: Three times in the last year I have encountered unconscious men lying in the street. All in middle class primarily white neighborhoods.Two of the men were white, one was Latino. I called 911 and remained until help arrived. I was appalled by the actions of the EMT's, who in each case screamed at the men, shook them and handled them roughly, before even investigating whether there were any injuries.
Police and EMT jobs are tough, as they routinely encounter people who are on the edges of society and often upset about it. Their actions here and elsewhere are symptomatic of our larger society. They include the actions of the police brass who ordered the arrest, of the police who arrested and provided the force that in conjunction with his fragile health condition resulted in his death, the EMTs who responded and did very little to aid him, the the police brass, unions and the prosecutors who defended the actions, the newspapers and TV programs that don't seek truth and all of us who let our feelings of powerlessness take over us - it's time to change. It is time to act humanly ourselves and demand that our society have as its principle goal the well-being of its citizens. All of them.
15
The cost of selling untaxed cigarettes is death. The punishment for killing someone using an illegal chokehold is . . . nothing?
18
Chokehold are not illegal.
6
The prosecutor as we have seen worked for the police dept and not for the people of the city. That prosecutor is now a US Rep and represents only a certain group of people that look and think like him. How can a man be killed for selling loose cigarettes in America?
I remember how Rev Wright, a minister who volunteered to serve in the Marines form 2 years and then volunteered for the Navy, was vilified by the media and conservatives for speaking out about the treatment of African Americans by this country, I think he was more right then wrong.
I remember how Rev Wright, a minister who volunteered to serve in the Marines form 2 years and then volunteered for the Navy, was vilified by the media and conservatives for speaking out about the treatment of African Americans by this country, I think he was more right then wrong.
12
"Mr. Garner’s death was the start of a succession of police killings that captured national attention"
Parsing this sentence, the case could be made that the killing of Mr. Garner was just a continuation of he killings of blacks that started on this continent long before there was a United States of America. I could speculate that Black Lives Matter was truer when they were valuable pieces of property. Beat your slave, don't kill them!
We must not blame the mistreatment or injury or deaths of black people solely on American police. A wider focus throughout our history shows mistreatment of people with black skin is as American as apple pie. Blacks, Hispanics & the original whipping race, Native Americans have all had targets on their backs since the 1500s. The murder of Emmett Till in 1955 should be all we need to know about racism. But is our racists learning.....NO!
Every guilty white Wall Street banker or hedge fund operator who ruined the world's economy in 2008 walks free & continues to profit, so forgive me if I don't give a flip of a black man is selling untaxed single cigarettes anywhere on this planet. If Mr. Gjeshbitraj is so upset about people in front of his buildings, he should at least sweep up before the NY Times photographer shows up. Minorities picking on other minorities is the last thing we need.
When white Americans are no longer in the majority, will our dark skin overlords remember what we have done to them? Us white people better hope not!
Parsing this sentence, the case could be made that the killing of Mr. Garner was just a continuation of he killings of blacks that started on this continent long before there was a United States of America. I could speculate that Black Lives Matter was truer when they were valuable pieces of property. Beat your slave, don't kill them!
We must not blame the mistreatment or injury or deaths of black people solely on American police. A wider focus throughout our history shows mistreatment of people with black skin is as American as apple pie. Blacks, Hispanics & the original whipping race, Native Americans have all had targets on their backs since the 1500s. The murder of Emmett Till in 1955 should be all we need to know about racism. But is our racists learning.....NO!
Every guilty white Wall Street banker or hedge fund operator who ruined the world's economy in 2008 walks free & continues to profit, so forgive me if I don't give a flip of a black man is selling untaxed single cigarettes anywhere on this planet. If Mr. Gjeshbitraj is so upset about people in front of his buildings, he should at least sweep up before the NY Times photographer shows up. Minorities picking on other minorities is the last thing we need.
When white Americans are no longer in the majority, will our dark skin overlords remember what we have done to them? Us white people better hope not!
7
Should the police officer have the ability to "pick and choose" which laws to enforce? I agree that there should be discretion in "how" they are enforced (e.g. Citation vs Arrest vs Warning). However, at the point in time when a lawful order is disobeyed, that discretion is out the window. Law enforcement officers don't have the option of walking away from conflict, especially when a crime is occurring. Many police officers themselves don't agree with every law, but it should be clear that a primary aspect of their job to enforce compliance of laws, no matter how "minor" they may seem. An argument could be made for how police resources are used and types of crimes that are proactively policed, but when confronted with any violation or even suspected violation (e.g. Response to a call for service) an officer must (per their oath of office) conduct an investigation and at some level address any criminal behavior.
9
Well, New Yorkers, how do you like living in a place where a misdemeanor tax offense can, for all practical purposes, get you the death penalty - right there on the street? Nobody disputes whether Eric Garner was breaking the law - he was. The real outrages in this case? First, the refusal of the police to obtain quick aid for a man who was then helpless, handcuffed behind his back and face down on the street, audibly gasping "I can't breathe". And then, no indictment for manslaughter. And please don't tell me about how great grand juries are. They typically go whichever way the authorities want them to. As a retired deputy medical examiner, I've seen and heard enough about those to grant them the credibility of Al Capone claiming to be just a manufacturer of pine boxes (forgetting what - or, more typically, who, usually wound up in those things).
15
This is a tragedy, no doubt. Lot's of problems, issues and shortcomings.
And something else strikes me: If Mr Garner had just done what the cops told him to do, he would be alive. I am not justifying police actions or omissions - or those of the EMTs. They were indefensible and should be criminally prosecuted. Zealously. And meantime, while that now gets sorted out, Mr Garner is no longer. Police are given special powers in society - police powers - to legally use force. Citizens generally do not enjoy such powers (unless a defensive of justification is available).
When a cop tells you to stay in the car, get out of the car, get on your knees or whatever -- you comply. If you believe it to be a false arrest or mistake - that can be sorted out later. While you're alive. If you choose not to comply - you do so at your peril. With all the other things that are terrible and wrong with what occurred, I am still left with the sense that the biggest tragedy here, Mr Garner's death, would not have occurred had he not resisted (btw, for conduct he well knew to be illegal).
And something else strikes me: If Mr Garner had just done what the cops told him to do, he would be alive. I am not justifying police actions or omissions - or those of the EMTs. They were indefensible and should be criminally prosecuted. Zealously. And meantime, while that now gets sorted out, Mr Garner is no longer. Police are given special powers in society - police powers - to legally use force. Citizens generally do not enjoy such powers (unless a defensive of justification is available).
When a cop tells you to stay in the car, get out of the car, get on your knees or whatever -- you comply. If you believe it to be a false arrest or mistake - that can be sorted out later. While you're alive. If you choose not to comply - you do so at your peril. With all the other things that are terrible and wrong with what occurred, I am still left with the sense that the biggest tragedy here, Mr Garner's death, would not have occurred had he not resisted (btw, for conduct he well knew to be illegal).
17
Past performances by the police give pause to any person of color that their fate is no longer in their hands if they simply and always comply.
6
While I don't pretend to be an expert on police tactics the video seems to clearly show a man being chocked, and his pleas that he can't breathe ignored. I don't know what the standard is for a police officer's conduct in this situation to arise to a crime but if it centers around whether Mr. Gardner was chocked or not, then it's hard to understand how the grand jury didn't return an indictment. Or at least it was hard until this article explained that the prosecutor was chastising a neutral witness for using the word chocked. Now I think I do understand.
8
"That day, a lieutenant from the 120th Precinct, on his way to a meeting, saw a group of men on Bay Street and recognized them as a chronic source of problems in the area. The lieutenant called the precinct. Officers Damico and Pantaleo were sent to address it."
"Address it".
What was 'it' they were addressing: "a group of men".
The police were looking to find trouble.
"At the scene, the two plainclothes officers moved in, and the supervisors who arrived moments later never gained control".
"Control"?
The lieutenant did not report there was a situation to be controlled.
The trouble started when the plainclothes officers moved in to a group of men on Bay Street.
"Address it".
What was 'it' they were addressing: "a group of men".
The police were looking to find trouble.
"At the scene, the two plainclothes officers moved in, and the supervisors who arrived moments later never gained control".
"Control"?
The lieutenant did not report there was a situation to be controlled.
The trouble started when the plainclothes officers moved in to a group of men on Bay Street.
9
Eric Garner's misfortune (and that of other working poor) is that he couldn't get venture capitalists to fund his "loose cigarette" enterprise in the way that Uber is funded. Is Uber worried about breaking the law? Are Uber's driver's (or the CEO) subject to arrest for breaking the law? Not with millions of dollars behind them. And yet (from Courthouse News Service)
New York City's Hail Act.
This law explicitly states: "It shall remain the exclusive right of existing and future taxicabs licensed by the TLC as a taxicab to pick up passengers via street hail ... No driver of any for-hire vehicle shall accept a passenger within the City of New York by means other than pre-arrangement."
New York City's Hail Act.
This law explicitly states: "It shall remain the exclusive right of existing and future taxicabs licensed by the TLC as a taxicab to pick up passengers via street hail ... No driver of any for-hire vehicle shall accept a passenger within the City of New York by means other than pre-arrangement."
5
You don't consider uber a pre arrangement? It's unclear whether you want loose cigs allowed or uber outlawed or neither
3
@dsillers0
What I'm pointing out is that lawbreaking is reserved for the wealthy, allowing them to accumulate greater wealth. You just needs enough money and lawyers to exploit loopholes, real and imagined.
Gypsy cabs could have been a way for men with no particular skill to earn a living. But TLC froze them out, but didn't anticipate Uber. So money and lawyers are making a big difference in NYC ground transport.
What I'm pointing out is that lawbreaking is reserved for the wealthy, allowing them to accumulate greater wealth. You just needs enough money and lawyers to exploit loopholes, real and imagined.
Gypsy cabs could have been a way for men with no particular skill to earn a living. But TLC froze them out, but didn't anticipate Uber. So money and lawyers are making a big difference in NYC ground transport.
2
Every month, about 400 black people are Shot to death by other black people, almost all them males between the ages of 15 and 35. Why doesn't The New York Times doesn't investigate any of that?
15
Jon Stewart spoke what I consider the perfect response to your question: "Why all the interest in holding police officers to a higher standard than gangs? They both flash colors, and yes, one of them has been sworn to protect and defend but still…"
10
Those black lives don't matter, at least not to the progressive intelligencia.
8
These are separate issues. When blacks kill blacks the police generally arrest, prosecute and convict the perpetrator. However, when police (who are paid, by the communities they police, amongst other taxpayers, to uphold the law) kill blacks, past and present history shows the vast majority are not arrested, prosecuted or convicted, in fact sometimes they are even promoted. The former problem can be easily solved, by arresting, prosecuting and convicting police officers who murder blacks. The latter problem (caused by unemployment, poverty and crime) is a much more difficult problem to solve and probably requires a Marshall Plan for those communities suffering decades of neglect and exploitation.
5
Sadly, we keep passing laws regulating behavior, pass laws raising taxes on everyday items to ridiculous levels, then we wonder why people like Eric Garner break those laws. If we are not going to enforce these laws, repeal them. If we are going to enforce the laws, then the Eric Garners need to obey them. We can't keep passing laws and then say it is ok for the Eric Garners to break the same laws or resist arrest when the police are ordered to enforce the laws. Eric Garner died because he refused to obey the law, because he refused to be subject to a lawful arrest, because he decided to fight the police instead of obeying the police. Unfortunate, and occurs way too often.
12
@Tony
What law did Eric Garner break? Why was he being arrested? No evidence is presented here or anywhere else that Eric Garner was breaking the law at the time of his arrest. So many people think that citizens should just submit to arrest without a question or discussion, while at the same time we're told that the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution exists to give citizens the ability to fight an oppressive government. But the evidence is that only certain citizens have the right to oppose what's unfair, Cliven Bundy for example.
What law did Eric Garner break? Why was he being arrested? No evidence is presented here or anywhere else that Eric Garner was breaking the law at the time of his arrest. So many people think that citizens should just submit to arrest without a question or discussion, while at the same time we're told that the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution exists to give citizens the ability to fight an oppressive government. But the evidence is that only certain citizens have the right to oppose what's unfair, Cliven Bundy for example.
14
@scsmits.
Selling untaxed cigarettes. Garner was arrested for it before. And I didn't pass that law making it illegal to sell untaxed cigarettes. That law was passed by liberal Democrats in New York State and New York City. Mayor Bill de Blasio needs the tax revenue from cigarette sales to pay for health care for the poor. Eric Garner was effectively stealing the money that was going to be spent on health care for the poor.
Selling untaxed cigarettes. Garner was arrested for it before. And I didn't pass that law making it illegal to sell untaxed cigarettes. That law was passed by liberal Democrats in New York State and New York City. Mayor Bill de Blasio needs the tax revenue from cigarette sales to pay for health care for the poor. Eric Garner was effectively stealing the money that was going to be spent on health care for the poor.
11
Tony, he wasn't selling anything when he was arrested. He was harassed & died for being who he was and being where he was he was. There were no cigarettes. There was no reason to arrest him.
11
There's no mention at all about tasers in this article.
That's what's troubled me about this and the case of Michael Brown.
Two young men who would still be walking this earth if the officers had used tasers instead, since that's what tasers had been invented for after all.
That's what's troubled me about this and the case of Michael Brown.
Two young men who would still be walking this earth if the officers had used tasers instead, since that's what tasers had been invented for after all.
2
Many people die after having been shocked by a taser. In most cases, the coroner rules that the "perp" had pre-existing health problems which, apparently, caused the death; thus, the deaths are officially said to be "taser-related," allegedly not caused by a taser. There have been at least 634 "taser-related" deaths since 2001. If Eric had been tased, it's very likely that he would've died since he had serious life-threatening health problems. The police do not consider the possibility that a target for tasering might have serious health problems.
12
Here are some points to ponder: In an effort to eliminate smoking and cigarettes, New York (Democrats) levied huge taxes on tobacco products, the ostensible reason being to reduce health care costs. "Entrepreneurs" like Eric Garner showed up to circumvent the law by selling untaxed cigarettes, but apparently that now seems to be ok. The police in the 120 Precinct were very familiar with Mr. Garner as he could be described as a serial violator. But that seems to be ok, too. Mr. Garner apparently avoided arrest earlier by yelling and flailing his arms. He received a warning, but did not heed it. Broken Windows policing targets quality of life violations, most frequently found in poor neighborhoods. When I was a cop, before Broken Windows, working people in poor neighborhoods would demand to know why the police allowed such behavior there, whereas it would never be tolerated in more affluent areas. This is why so many dysfunctional neighborhoods don't improve: there is no expectation that they will. Would Times readers and writers living at, say 77th and Park, or in Scarsdale, or in Greenwich tolerate cigarette sellers, drinkers, and loitering drug users in their areas before wanting those "conditions" alleviated?
21
All Mr. Garner had to do was submit to arrest and we would not be having this conversation. He certainly knew the drill, but did not deserve to die for selling cigarettes; that being said, the citizens of the area deserved not to have their lives disrupted by this illegal activity that spawns much worse crimes. Mr. Garner knew he was engaged in illegal activity. He had been busted many times and tempted fate one time too many. "The Law of Unintended Consequences..."; something I wish Mr. Garner had considered before he chose to resist the police. And, was that an African-American female Sergeant I see arriving on the scene in the video? If so, that seems to have been kept on the down-low.
17
@tornadocy
What "illegal activity that spawns much worse crimes" are you referring to? Organized crime was for years rampant in NYC, with loan sharks, extortion, prostitution, and murder. But not once did we ever hear of a "made man" being killed by the police--not even once. Why? Mafia were so respectful of the law or the police? No, the police were respectful of the Mafia.
What "illegal activity that spawns much worse crimes" are you referring to? Organized crime was for years rampant in NYC, with loan sharks, extortion, prostitution, and murder. But not once did we ever hear of a "made man" being killed by the police--not even once. Why? Mafia were so respectful of the law or the police? No, the police were respectful of the Mafia.
7
One thing is abundantly clear from this and other recent brutal police over-reactions: when things go horribly wrong, the police will lie their faces off, and the justice system will cover for them. Right now grand juries are giving them the benefit of the doubt, but if it continues it is only a matter of time before they stop doing that and expect false or incomplete testimony from police.
10
Yeah, the cops are terrible and all criminals Angels.. Micheal Brown a wonderful person.
Eric Garner such an asset to society. What is the going to do without them?
Eric Garner such an asset to society. What is the going to do without them?
14
The police are no better. They steal through fraud from society. I have yet to meet an honest one. They always have a scam going and they foolishly brag about it. Disability, theft, now they are all heroes. Growing up all of the high school losers joined the force, now they run the whole shebang.
1
The public is going after a strawman in criticizing the police in this matter. Granted the police shouldn't have used a chokehold and didn't take care of Mr. Garner after bringing him to the ground.
But the final, and seemingly ignored, contribution to the death was the lack of proper professional response by the EMTs. Had they performed their duty appropriately, Mr. Garner would still be alive. That the police didn't follow up to ascertain he was still alive is negligent. I am left with the impression that if he was white, they would have checked.
It was dereliction of duty by the EMTs that bothers me the most. Assuming that a person unconscious was faking it? Give me a break. What agency condones such disregard of safety protocols? This is behavior that is habit, not a random situation.
Had there been a single Boy Scout on the block, Mr. Garner would have had a better chance than he had with the EMTs or the police, except the police probably wouldn't have let him close enough to save Mr. Garner.
But the final, and seemingly ignored, contribution to the death was the lack of proper professional response by the EMTs. Had they performed their duty appropriately, Mr. Garner would still be alive. That the police didn't follow up to ascertain he was still alive is negligent. I am left with the impression that if he was white, they would have checked.
It was dereliction of duty by the EMTs that bothers me the most. Assuming that a person unconscious was faking it? Give me a break. What agency condones such disregard of safety protocols? This is behavior that is habit, not a random situation.
Had there been a single Boy Scout on the block, Mr. Garner would have had a better chance than he had with the EMTs or the police, except the police probably wouldn't have let him close enough to save Mr. Garner.
12
Boy Scouts in the neighborhood?
3
Has no one been puzzled by the sheer number of plain-clothed detectives and uniformed officers, apparently from different jurisdictions, and what they were doing there, fraternizing?
4
It's simply murder......
7
There is definitely more to this case than what meets the eye. It is one thing for police to inappropriately use force, but then for medical responders to not properly do their job as well is absolutely appalling. It's as if because he was labeled a "criminal" he did not deserve the same basic human rights as the "upstanding" citizen. His accused crime of selling untaxed cigarettes in my eyes is no different that the principal of tax evasion. How many corporate thugs are there trying to avoid taxation in an effort to increase their bottom line? When some commits a crime on Wall Street, which is akin to the alleged crime of Mr. Garner, they are not thrown in a chokehold and left to die in the street, but are ushered out of a corporate building with their lives and a bit of human dignity intact.
17
This is well done. Thank you for writing this.
9
How is this even a piece of investigation? This article merely compiles everything the public already knows about this event under the guise of some great reveal. I find it troubling that The New York Times would publish this story, again, because instead of unveiling any sort of new truths, which the article admits is hard to accomplish due to the ongoing Federal civil rights investigation, it perpetuates the ever growing mythology that police officers are the biggest threat to black males in this country. Shame on you, New York Times, for not waiting until the dust has settled (investigations are complete) before whipping it up again.
10
To me the "reveal" was the extent to which the police and the prosecutor went to.cover the many infractions protocol.
6
Eric Garner was killed because of the color of his skin and how law enforcement deals with seemingly insignificant infractions of the law when race and social class are involved. It's as if the civil rights movement never took place. It seems that if society provided opportunity and support for all of its members, this dreadful killing would never have taken place.
10
As I watched Ms. Allen's video I wanted to leap into the picture and start yelling at the thoughtless idiots who stood around for 8 minutes while Mr. Garner was dying. The plain clothed police punks acted like they had no duty provide any assistance to Mr. Garner after they had tackled him with a choke hold and then heard him say he couldn't breathe. The uniformed officers acted like they didn't have a clue and seemed to be hoping that things would work out. All the EMT did was try to get the pulse of a huge man of a busy city sidewalk. Who are these people and why haven't they been arrested?
16
The paramedic/emt failed to do her job. She ignored the patient when Mr. Garner told her be couldn't breathe. She should have then asked him if he had a history of respiratory problems. Anyone with asthma would have understood the question & answer by saying ,"asthma". She would have then immediately given oxygen. The paramedic/emt should have ordered the police to at least sit him up to take his body weight off his lungs & his beck would have opened his airway more, instead of leaving him in that uncomfortable position. I also noted the distance the ambulance was from the scene, when sufficient parking was directly in front of Mr. Garner. The police should have directed the ambulance where to park. Also, because they received the call for an emergency unit by police at the scene, the paramedic/emt should have been prepared for worst case scenerio irregardless not been given details of the situation. They should have stepped out of the unit with trauma bag & oxygen, as if the patient/suspect may have had gunshot injury or even heart attack. Part of every paramedic/emt training. The paramedic should have positioned herself in front of Mr. Garner instead of viewing him from behind. She would have been able to see Mr. Gardner's eyes and or even examined his eyes for responsiveness. I repeat, the paramedic should have listened to her patient as he told her, "I can't breathe."
18
He died because he was in bad health breaking the law and resisting arrest simple as that No studies need to be done.
If guys like garner are loud to do whatever they want you don't have a civilized society plain and simple.
Most of these deaths at the hands of police are the fault of the ones breaking the law.
If guys like garner are loud to do whatever they want you don't have a civilized society plain and simple.
Most of these deaths at the hands of police are the fault of the ones breaking the law.
20
The "broken window" approach to controlling all activity by the underclass has resulted in any number of police killings of black men, and any number of incarcerations of black men--all for minor crimes, mostly misdemeanors.
It is time to end this policy.
It is time to end this policy.
7
The vast majority of minorities in poor communities are strong advocates for broken windows policing. The lack of it makes daily life in these neighborhoods dangerous and abysmal. Easy for progressive whites to decry "broken windows" when they largely don't suffer the consequences when "minor" crime is allowed to flourish.
8
How devastating it must be for the minorities in poor communities, when someone is selling untaxed cigarettes.
2
Poor criminals. Maybe we need a national holiday honoring them.
8
All these incidents of mostly white police officers "arresting" mostly African-American men sends chills down my spine. I would have hated to have been here during the pre- civil rights era... the civil rights era was the catalyst to letting Asians in to this great country and to exposing brutalities to this day. I wonder if NYT or some other paper has done any analysis of African-American male deaths caused by white police officers over time? i.e, 1940's, 1950's to present. Is data available? As an aside, my family and I and most Indian-Americans that I know stay clear of white police officers. While most of them are great and are necessary in today's violent society and among rampant crime, a small percentage of them are hard core racist, beefy, and prone to violent tendencies.
My family and I just avoid them out of fear. Frankly, their gun, power, and swagger scare us. Much as we also admire and respect most of them for their work (without which we would be singing a different song), we worry about the few rotten apples that we may end up with. I for one would hate to be stuck in a dark alley with a racist police officer; I would much prefer Mr. Garner for company. At least, he would have empathy for others' lives.
My family and I just avoid them out of fear. Frankly, their gun, power, and swagger scare us. Much as we also admire and respect most of them for their work (without which we would be singing a different song), we worry about the few rotten apples that we may end up with. I for one would hate to be stuck in a dark alley with a racist police officer; I would much prefer Mr. Garner for company. At least, he would have empathy for others' lives.
14
The NYPD has become a wolf pack of predators preying on the public. They show a Mafia like allegiance to themselves and blackmail the city for whatever they want. They show no respect for their bosses in city government. They show no remorse when they kill, instead trying to justify their crimes. They just reelected their gang leader who personifies all these traits. I no longer give a good gosh darn about cops.
9
Mr. naïve living in fairyland .
3
"Open windows"? It's so much safer for the police to physically attack and kill a pretty much helpless man than to actually go after gangs, any gang. When was the last time we heard of local police going after Hells Angels for instance?
7
It was over reaction by a brutish NY Police Force that has been in need of better management for a long time. Witness the ratio of stop and frisk actions against African Americans vs Whites. A simple ticket would have sufficed. By the way. How were the cigarettes untaxed? Did he not buy them from a convenience store? So it is OK for ExxonMobil to not pay taxes but a man trying to get by in NYC has to pay twice?
3
Chokeholds are against the law for the police because chokeholds are too dangerous and can lead to the death of the accused. The officer who used the illegal chokehold killed Eric Garner. The officer should be tried for murder.
Why is this not patently obvious to everyone?
Why is this not patently obvious to everyone?
18
You have to factor in a huge man resisting arrest when you analyze the situation.
3
A chokehold is not illegal. Why is this not patently obvious to you?
2
It seems to me that Garner's excessive weight was the main factor here. There is no law that a person can't be obese, but that "chokehold" probably would not been fatal on someone of normal weight.
8
"Daniel M. Donovan Jr., who was the Staten Island district attorney, fought to keep secret the testimony and other evidence presented to the grand jury. In May, Mr. Donovan was elected to Congress."
And so it goes.
And so it goes.
11
about broken-windows policing: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674015906
about how the system isn't working: http://www.c-span.org/video/?326093-1/book-discussion-jailer-jailed
'if a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been indicted.'
and also about how the economic system isn't working either....
about how the system isn't working: http://www.c-span.org/video/?326093-1/book-discussion-jailer-jailed
'if a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been indicted.'
and also about how the economic system isn't working either....
What bothers me most is the response to Mr. Garner as he lay on the ground in clear need of medical attention. He appears dead to me or, at the very least, worrisomely unconscious. Yet the cops and EMTs show no concern or urgency about his condition. I wanted to insert myself in the video and scream for help, take off his handcuffs, lay him out properly, examine whether he was breathing, and give him CPR if necessary.
I am not upset by the decision to arrest Mr. Garner for a relatively minor violation, nor even how they got him down to handcuff him. He was doing something illegal and he resisted arrest.
No, it is the complete lack of proper assistance after he had trouble breathing that I rail against.
I am not upset by the decision to arrest Mr. Garner for a relatively minor violation, nor even how they got him down to handcuff him. He was doing something illegal and he resisted arrest.
No, it is the complete lack of proper assistance after he had trouble breathing that I rail against.
9
if he isnt there in the first place breaking the law, then he doesnt have to deal with the police in the second place. sorry that happened. some people never learn. thats why we need the police.
8
Have you ever broken the law?
2
Since when does selling loosies require anything more than a citation? Besides the fact that the police are not judge, jury and executioner.
Just imagine if you had a son who bought beer for under aged teens. What would you feel about this end result for him?
This man was not committing a violent crime. Think about how idiotic your statement sounds.
Just imagine if you had a son who bought beer for under aged teens. What would you feel about this end result for him?
This man was not committing a violent crime. Think about how idiotic your statement sounds.
9
A better analogy would be if you had an underage son who was drinking in a park, and refused to stop drinking when the police told him to.
2
Watching the video, it is apparent, the blond female medical tech is incompetent. Her check for vital signs consisted of a momentary attempt to feel a carotid pulse. After that, nothing.
14
Using the word confrontation distorts the fact of a heinous and coward murder commited by a predator on a badge. Pantaleo attacked his subdued victim by behind, with advantage and disregard of life. Murdering Garner and allowing his murderer to walk put the USA at the same level than Uganda or Afganistan.
16
I was offered "cigarettes" at a nice bar in East Village, and no one was choked. The loosie business is so low victim, that low hanging fruit arrest that government love and lands mostly minorities in jail or on probation. The real crime is the that the off shore private LLC's steal way more than any of these folks.
8
The police now appear to have clearly mishandled this situation and a man his now dead because of it and the people responsible for it should be held accountable. However, Mr. Garner repeatedly put himself in confrontational situations with the police and knew he was breaking the law and was accountable for a significant portion of the tension between himself and the police. He knew he was breaking the law and he still resisted repeatedly. I'm sorry he is both a victim and responsible at the same time. People act like the situation was either an either/or. Community leaders will hopefully call for both higher police accountability to not escalate things and accountability of citizens themselves not to escalate as well.
2
Mr. Garner did not commit a crime worthy of death, nor is it the place of the police to be judge, jury and executioner.
4
Everybody loses here.
The cops, doing their jobs, lose.
The family of the dead guy lose.
The residents who complained via 911 of Undesirable congregations on the sidewalks outside their residences lose.
The merchants losing business by being undercut on cigarette sales lose.
America, a nation of losers.
The cops, doing their jobs, lose.
The family of the dead guy lose.
The residents who complained via 911 of Undesirable congregations on the sidewalks outside their residences lose.
The merchants losing business by being undercut on cigarette sales lose.
America, a nation of losers.
3
It's beyond me how the Grand Jury failed to return an indictment. A civil judgment against the City won't solve that problem. This is an egregious case and excuses are unacceptable.
8
Thank you. Anyone who has watched both videos, which I did when they were first released, cannot come to any other conclusion. The police are not supposed to take on the roles of judge, jury and executioner. When this occurs, we are nothing better than a police state.
5
If the police had been honest and responsive regarding the use of a banned chokehold and the medical technicians had known that, is it possible that Eric would have survived?
There is so much that is wrong with this whole episode, but the apparent dishonesty, from the cops to the little that is known about the grand jury investigation is the disgusting icing on the cake. Cowardice is hiding behind whatever you can, and our entire system - from writing reports to a poor sense of what is important in keeping our streets safe to institutions that restrict the disclosure of information seem to be designed to protect the guilty.
There is so much that is wrong with this whole episode, but the apparent dishonesty, from the cops to the little that is known about the grand jury investigation is the disgusting icing on the cake. Cowardice is hiding behind whatever you can, and our entire system - from writing reports to a poor sense of what is important in keeping our streets safe to institutions that restrict the disclosure of information seem to be designed to protect the guilty.
6
The cause of the arrest has nothing to do with untaxed cigarettes. It has everything to do with a group of shabbily-dressed men congregating in an area, making people who don't know them uncomfortable, even leaving behind their litter. This discomfort makes people not want to live there, keeps rents landlords can charge low, and discourages re-development and gentrification.
A lieutenant on his way to a meeting "recognized them as a chronic source of problems." What kind of problems? The kind that result in complaints to the City. These complaints are studied by higher-ups implementing a questionable policy, and police are sent to "address it."
Loitering is not a crime said the U.S. Supreme Court decades ago. A police officer cannot tell people to move along. The police needed a crime. The crime in this instance was one man presumed to be selling cigarettes. I saw no mention of anyone witnessing this man selling untaxed cigarettes. They simply made a series of assumptions that Mr. Garner, whose body now lies in an unmarked grave, was committing crimes, tiny misdemeanors though they be.
The police cannot be a tool for developers and for people made uncomfortable by groups of people they don't know. They must stop counting 311 complaints, and return to foot and bicycle patrol. They must say goodbye to the cops who would so callously treat another human being.
A lieutenant on his way to a meeting "recognized them as a chronic source of problems." What kind of problems? The kind that result in complaints to the City. These complaints are studied by higher-ups implementing a questionable policy, and police are sent to "address it."
Loitering is not a crime said the U.S. Supreme Court decades ago. A police officer cannot tell people to move along. The police needed a crime. The crime in this instance was one man presumed to be selling cigarettes. I saw no mention of anyone witnessing this man selling untaxed cigarettes. They simply made a series of assumptions that Mr. Garner, whose body now lies in an unmarked grave, was committing crimes, tiny misdemeanors though they be.
The police cannot be a tool for developers and for people made uncomfortable by groups of people they don't know. They must stop counting 311 complaints, and return to foot and bicycle patrol. They must say goodbye to the cops who would so callously treat another human being.
11
I wish the NYT would spend more time on the deaths of police officers. More than five years ago, four officers in the Tacoma, Washington, suburb of Lakewood were gunned down while taking a break in a coffee shop. The tragedy was compounded when news surfaced that the perpetrator was a violent ex con from Arkansas who was paroled against the advice of prosecutors. Readers should also know about the risks to police and their communities from the repeat violent offenders among us.
3
I'm sorry, but this issue has nothing to do with that issue. Mr. Garner was not a hardened criminal. He did not attempt to kill the police. He was the married father of six children. He did not commit a heinous crime. These police officers were committing a crime - manslaughter - by being judge, jury and executioner.
I am sorry about the loss of police officers in your area. I do remember reading about it, so journalists did cover the story.
I am sorry about the loss of police officers in your area. I do remember reading about it, so journalists did cover the story.
2
That has nothing to do with the points of this article.
2
This article again demonstrates that Mr Garner was committing no crime for which he could have been successfully arrested and convicted when he was approached and killed by the police. Is Pantaleo still arresting people on the streets in New York? We do know Mr Donovan is in his Downton Abbey office in Washington.
8
This represents great journalism but also the break down of society.
I grew up in a small town which had an intense sense of community. People were always there to help and it functioned much like an extended family. You would never flip off a random stranger (as there were no strangers) or cheat a person because you would always run into them later.
Today we have constructed myriad systems that remove us from the obligation of common decency. The police can choke someone because they don't know that person or their family and the system constructed to protect them removes them from what is the most basic consequence of their actions - apologizing face to face for what they did. We have an entire legal system designed to skirt, prevent and avoid the basic apology.
This removal of personal interaction is what allows a CEO to live behind a gated community - no decent person could face another person and explain that they somehow deserve to earn millions and millions while they pay this other person so little that the basic costs of life are beyond reach. This system of inequality requires we continue to construct barriers to prevent facing the obvious injustices we continue to mete out.
This is one of the reasons I left NYC after 20 years. The weather is another.
I grew up in a small town which had an intense sense of community. People were always there to help and it functioned much like an extended family. You would never flip off a random stranger (as there were no strangers) or cheat a person because you would always run into them later.
Today we have constructed myriad systems that remove us from the obligation of common decency. The police can choke someone because they don't know that person or their family and the system constructed to protect them removes them from what is the most basic consequence of their actions - apologizing face to face for what they did. We have an entire legal system designed to skirt, prevent and avoid the basic apology.
This removal of personal interaction is what allows a CEO to live behind a gated community - no decent person could face another person and explain that they somehow deserve to earn millions and millions while they pay this other person so little that the basic costs of life are beyond reach. This system of inequality requires we continue to construct barriers to prevent facing the obvious injustices we continue to mete out.
This is one of the reasons I left NYC after 20 years. The weather is another.
11
Why are the powers that be so afraid to release some grand jury minutes?
7
When an individual is denied opportunity because of the historical misfortune of biology, they must resort to any means necessary to earn a living, and the police must not interfere with their livelihood. That is the lesson of the tragic story of Eric Garner. The laws in America need to be formed so that minorities, who have been historically marginalized from participating in the socio-economic mainstream are not criminalized for selling cigarettes, drugs, or weapons. Mainstream America needs to understand that tax free cigarettes, drugs, and weapons constitute the main commodities bought and sold in the minority community. These transactions must be allowed to continue freely. Until that happens, men like Eric Garner will continue to be tragic victims of police violence and bigotry.
4
This is an amazing article, the writers did an amazing job of investigating this case. This whole incident was a tragic loss for the family of Eric Garner. The cops shouldn't have took him down like that and put him in a chokehold because it wasn't necessary at all. Just because you are a cop doesn't mean you can go around hurting and killing citizens. Although Mr. Garner resisted arrest doesn't mean that you put him in a chokehold and not let go when he said "I can't breathe." Eric Garner sold untaxed cigarettes which he should never have done because if haven't done that maybe he wouldn't have died. New York taxes their cigarettes really high, and if someone is to travel to Virginia or any other place where the taxes aren't as high as New York. People easily travel to Virginia to buy cigarettes and make profit when they come back to New York. Instead of killing Eric Garner, they should of put him on trial for selling untaxed cigarettes.
7
Yeah you should be allowed to break the law and do anything you want cops have no right to do anything .
1
Crime does not pay does it? Eric Garner caused his own death by resisting arrest. Slow news day that NTY keeps beating the drum trying to create sympathy for criminals. Of course bleeding heart liberals live in safe neighborhoods - UES, Georgetown, Pacific Heights, Shake Heights, etc..and don't have to worry about the crime. But get to pat themselves on the back for being "progressive" and going soft on criminals. Bleeding heart liberals out to move to the ghettos for a few years and then report back on how aggressive or not the police should be.
7
From some of the comments made here the high taxes on cigarettes in New York is conveniently being made a scapegoat. Let's be clear. The taxes are not the issue here. Yes, Eric Garner was selling cigarettes illegally. But his death cannot be justified for this small infraction. A slap on the wrist, maybe. A couple of days in custody , maybe. His death occurred due to the illegality of the Police Officers according to evidence caught on a phone video camera and the coroner's reports. This investigative journalism is excellent as the the details of the circumstances leading to Garner's death is unraveling. The crimes committed by omission or commission by all the parties concerned ( the Police Officers, E.M.T.s and paramedics ) is very evident. There was a total dereliction of duty, a total subversion of protocols. The prosecutor obviously suppressed evidence to the Grand Jury. As facts are unfolding, the truth about the so-called protectors are unfolding. Time for some indictments, surrender of badges, guns, licenses and firings from jobs. Time for criminal trials and justice.
8
Ah, yes, at first glance, reading this story you would think this took place in some backwoods cracker town in deep south Alabama. Not true, but what people don't understand is that this took place on Staten Island, the Southern most borough of NYC.
Staten Island, is a conservative (Republican) part of NYC because a lot of cops live there, because they can afford it. The prosecutors, the justice system, there all reflect the values of this Island that most people just know as a stepping stone, via the Verrazano Bridge, to New Jersey.
This is a civil rights issue. When Americans were being mistreated in the South the Federal Government was sent in to bring some justice to the American citizens there, who happened to be Black. Where is the Federal Government today?
Staten Island, is a conservative (Republican) part of NYC because a lot of cops live there, because they can afford it. The prosecutors, the justice system, there all reflect the values of this Island that most people just know as a stepping stone, via the Verrazano Bridge, to New Jersey.
This is a civil rights issue. When Americans were being mistreated in the South the Federal Government was sent in to bring some justice to the American citizens there, who happened to be Black. Where is the Federal Government today?
13
This was an unfortunate tragedy but no one is addressing the real problem in our society today. Much of it is about 'money'. Everything you do wrong on the governments list of wrongs mostly involves being punished with a 'fine' or a 'tax' that fills the governments pockets. Smoking is now considered a health hazard so what does the government do 'heavily tax it'. Now I hear talk of 'taxing high fructose drinks. Perhaps we could solve a lot more problems if our schools just added a class that educates our youth about what we know is good and bad for them. It won't work for all, but obviously taxation and fines is not working that well either and leading to a lot of tax payer expenditure and the filling of the government money boxes. Power corrupts!
5
To me it seems the lack of urgency after the chokehold, by the EMTs, other cops who arrived on the scene, was pure Psych 101. I'm sure many realized, or had the strong idea, that Mr. Garner was dying or already dead. But some in the immediate area of Garner were probably afraid to 'offend' the particular cops who gave him the chokehold. Also, everyone knew full well that there was an entire audience watching and recording their every word and action. Better to let the crowd 'believe' Mr. Garner was still alive, for not to do so could invite a riot.
10
It is generally inspiring but sometimes also troubling to see how the US touts its legal, financial, and democratic system (warts and all) to other countries as the world's standard of excellence in living... but criticizes them roundly and routinely for violations and nonconformity. I guess that is the marvel of the objectivity and self-analysis that the US (or rather "democratic") system fosters.
My main reservation about what's going on (or what's always been going on but is now being reported more often due to technology at more points in the news chain) is the double standard that the US lives by. No country (except perhaps the UK) would have escaped the US' wrath and criticisms for such civil rights (and criminal) violations.
We (the US) have over-invested in foreign policy and lecturing the world according to our flawed (but perhaps still the best?) standards, without a more distinctive effort to fix our own basic flaws: over-militarization of law enforcement and the country in general; attitudes towards and fear/insecurity about people of other races; under-investment in education; no discussion or training in peace/non-violence as viable strategies in *some* situations (both domestic and foreign); more emphasis on fixing domestic and economic issues rather than fixing the world. This introspective approach may be more productive for our citizens and more becoming of a democracy. It will hopefully end such shocking and undeserved killings of own citizens.
My main reservation about what's going on (or what's always been going on but is now being reported more often due to technology at more points in the news chain) is the double standard that the US lives by. No country (except perhaps the UK) would have escaped the US' wrath and criticisms for such civil rights (and criminal) violations.
We (the US) have over-invested in foreign policy and lecturing the world according to our flawed (but perhaps still the best?) standards, without a more distinctive effort to fix our own basic flaws: over-militarization of law enforcement and the country in general; attitudes towards and fear/insecurity about people of other races; under-investment in education; no discussion or training in peace/non-violence as viable strategies in *some* situations (both domestic and foreign); more emphasis on fixing domestic and economic issues rather than fixing the world. This introspective approach may be more productive for our citizens and more becoming of a democracy. It will hopefully end such shocking and undeserved killings of own citizens.
9
An excellent article. However, it fails to address the complicity by then Richmond County District Attorney Daniel Michael "Dan" Donovan, Jr. in covering up the criminal conduct by the officer which led to the victim's death. All that the article says of Donovan is that he fought to keep the grand jury minutes secret; little wonder considering that he ensured that there was no indictment. Donovan, the quintessential "company man" always found a way to 'throw" any case that was a political hot-potato. I told friends and colleagues that Donovan would use the grand jury proceeding to insulate himself; pretend he was doing his job but when he would actually be doing everything in his power to insure no indictment was returned. He succeed. The transcript of the grand jury should have be released, but anyone familiar with grand jury proceedings could tell this was a travesty. Donovan called 50 witnesses and presented 60 exhibits over a grand jury proceeding that lasted well over 2 months. This how you to so deliberately confuse and fatigue a grand jury that they cannot indict. Many people wrongly assume that double-jeopardy attaches to grand jury proceedings. Donovan could have simply empaneled another grand jury, but the courtroom mayhem was deliberately created by Donovan to kill an indictment, so he was never going to do that. As a reward for his complicity in the Garner cover-up, Donovan was elected the United States Representative for New York's 11th congressional district.
13
This is a case that set off a furor about racial injustice even though Eric Garner's widow has stated several times that, in her opinion, race had nothing to do with Eric's death. She believes it was a case of an ego driven officer who wanted to show his
partners that he could bring down a 395 pound man.
partners that he could bring down a 395 pound man.
5
My mother was an elementary school principal. She loved her job, and it was, by and large, the perfect job for her. But once she did have to fire a first-class teacher. It was tough, not just because firing a tenured teacher, who has been passed from school to school because no one wanted to deal with the problem, but because my mother didn't want to fire anyone. The problem was serious though. This first-year teacher could not control 6-year-olds without putting her hands on them. No child has been seriously injured. But this teacher obviously didn't belong in this class room.
My mother observed the teacher's behavior.
She documented the teacher's behaviors.
She gave the teacher feedback.
She assigned the teacher a mentor so the teacher had an chance to change.
My mother did everything by the books. Literally.
She didn't want to fire the teacher.
But nothing worked, and my mother didn't that the buck stopped with her, that she wasn't going to send this teacher to yet another school.
She initiated termination of this teacher for cause.
The teacher was fired.
The school board supported the action.
The teacher appealed and lost of all appeals, legal and otherwise.
My point is that if a police officer cannot usually detain a person, who as the point of the interaction with police is a suspect, not a convict, and the officer cannot detain the person without killing her or him, then that person should NOT be a police officer. Period.
My mother observed the teacher's behavior.
She documented the teacher's behaviors.
She gave the teacher feedback.
She assigned the teacher a mentor so the teacher had an chance to change.
My mother did everything by the books. Literally.
She didn't want to fire the teacher.
But nothing worked, and my mother didn't that the buck stopped with her, that she wasn't going to send this teacher to yet another school.
She initiated termination of this teacher for cause.
The teacher was fired.
The school board supported the action.
The teacher appealed and lost of all appeals, legal and otherwise.
My point is that if a police officer cannot usually detain a person, who as the point of the interaction with police is a suspect, not a convict, and the officer cannot detain the person without killing her or him, then that person should NOT be a police officer. Period.
27
Note: few teachers wear a pistol and bullet proof vest due their daily encounters with violent felons. There is a bit of a difference between being a school marm and a modern police officer. You trivialize the difference.
4
I disagree: She is talking about supervisors - higher-ups - actually supervising and correcting inappropriate behavior -- giving the employee, whether teacher or police officer- a chance to learn and change -but firing people who cannot perform professionally before they do harm. It takes a strong sense of responsibility, diligence and guts to stand up for standards and take the heat for doing what is right. If the Bosses, whomever they are. look away, do not document performance, or hide problems, bad apples remain. These positions both are in the public sector - they both require the confidence of the people served.
8
I don't see how you draw the conclusion that the police officer should be fired from your mother's situation. She didn't just straight out fire the teacher.
Eric Garner said something else as the police approached him on that fateful day. He said "This stops now", and it would be wonderful if that were the case for all of us on both sides of this equation.
On the one side, in his final encounter with the NYPD (and paramedics), Eric Garner was treated horribly, illegally, and with far too little respect. What happened to him should never have happened, and should never happen to anyone else. This should stop now.
By the same token, before his final encounter with the NYPD, Eric Garner had been arrested almost two dozen times for a range of offenses including assault, illegal drug use, and illegally selling untaxed cigarettes. His selling untaxed cigarettes so undercut the prices charged at stores near the plaza he frequented that stores could no longer make money selling cigarettes, a significant source of revenue for them. They could not afford to risk losing their business licenses by selling untaxed cigarettes, and so Mr. Garner put a significant dent in the livelihoods of people who had invested their life savings in starting their businesses. Mr. Garner's many illegal acts should also have stopped before having to be dealt with by the police.
We need a renewal of emphasis on a civic compact among all of us, putting a clear limit on the behavior both of the police as well as citizens like Eric Garner, Michael Brown, and others who live outside of the rules that help us all lead more productive and peaceful lives.
On the one side, in his final encounter with the NYPD (and paramedics), Eric Garner was treated horribly, illegally, and with far too little respect. What happened to him should never have happened, and should never happen to anyone else. This should stop now.
By the same token, before his final encounter with the NYPD, Eric Garner had been arrested almost two dozen times for a range of offenses including assault, illegal drug use, and illegally selling untaxed cigarettes. His selling untaxed cigarettes so undercut the prices charged at stores near the plaza he frequented that stores could no longer make money selling cigarettes, a significant source of revenue for them. They could not afford to risk losing their business licenses by selling untaxed cigarettes, and so Mr. Garner put a significant dent in the livelihoods of people who had invested their life savings in starting their businesses. Mr. Garner's many illegal acts should also have stopped before having to be dealt with by the police.
We need a renewal of emphasis on a civic compact among all of us, putting a clear limit on the behavior both of the police as well as citizens like Eric Garner, Michael Brown, and others who live outside of the rules that help us all lead more productive and peaceful lives.
9
The store sold only cigarettes? I'm sure Mr. Garner hurt the stores profits, so does every other store in the area that sells cigarettes.
Mr. Garner's crime pales compared to what the NYCPD and the DA did. And it is the entire police department, because the tolerate and protect officers like Pantaleo.
Mr. Garner's crime pales compared to what the NYCPD and the DA did. And it is the entire police department, because the tolerate and protect officers like Pantaleo.
1
The store didn't only sell cigarettes, but they did so legally until Mr. Garner's illegal actions made doing so unprofitable.
I agree that what the police did to Mr. Garner is much worse than what Mr. Garner did to us; but what Mr. Garner did was bad and wrong (many, many times) and it too should stop. If he hadn't been selling illegal cigarettes, he might be alive today.
I agree that what the police did to Mr. Garner is much worse than what Mr. Garner did to us; but what Mr. Garner did was bad and wrong (many, many times) and it too should stop. If he hadn't been selling illegal cigarettes, he might be alive today.
1
There was absolutely no reason for this man to die. None. All kinds of rhetoric will not change this one simple fact. Was his death caused by one or two individuals? No. It was caused by a society who sets the rules for engagement, and a police force that cannot differentiate between what is necessary and deadly force.
14
A good rule of thumb for avoiding a deadly encounter with police.
1. Don't commit a crime
2. If you commit a crime don't resist arrest.
Mr. Garner did neither.
1. Don't commit a crime
2. If you commit a crime don't resist arrest.
Mr. Garner did neither.
13
How about a good rule of thumb for police?
1. Don't kill people that you're arresting.
1. Don't kill people that you're arresting.
13
MsPea
To control someone resisting arrest requires force of some type. For someone who's job isn't a police officer it is easy to second guess the use of force when it results in tradegy. The simplest way to avoid the potentially tragic use of force by police is again not to commit a crime and not to resist arrest.
To control someone resisting arrest requires force of some type. For someone who's job isn't a police officer it is easy to second guess the use of force when it results in tradegy. The simplest way to avoid the potentially tragic use of force by police is again not to commit a crime and not to resist arrest.
2
There are other rules, in the Bill of Rights. When those rights are not respected, and police can roam at will and commit murder, there is a name for that form of state.
1
The positive impact of addressing Quality of Life crimes was real after the horrid years of Dinkins. Once smaller crime are ignored, it becomes a free for all until the pendulum swings too much the other way. I don't wish to go back to the days of broken windows, club, squeegee guys, tunnel bunnies, peeping booths, panhandlers and a host of other scammers. I recently got scammed by a guy looking like Eric Garner who sold me fake broadway tickets on a sold out show. The Liberal in me in decided to ignore the race of the seller, lesson learned.
4
You didn't respond as a "Liberal," you responded like a guy who decided to break the law by buying a hawked ticket to a Broadway show. The race of the seller had nothing to do with it. You simply got scammed. The race of the scammer had nothing to do with it.
3
When we were in college we sold "loose" cigarettes in the dorm for a nickel
apiece to our fellow dorm colleagues. Especially lucrative at final exam time. Would we ever ever ever have imagined a man across our country would some day be murdered by police for doing the same?
Big business and the wealthy everyday reap benefits from getting out of paying their fair share of taxes. Yet, selling loose cigarettes on the street is a form of United States tax evasion, so to speak? Almost laughable, except the outcome in this case of "tax evasion" is far from laughable.
apiece to our fellow dorm colleagues. Especially lucrative at final exam time. Would we ever ever ever have imagined a man across our country would some day be murdered by police for doing the same?
Big business and the wealthy everyday reap benefits from getting out of paying their fair share of taxes. Yet, selling loose cigarettes on the street is a form of United States tax evasion, so to speak? Almost laughable, except the outcome in this case of "tax evasion" is far from laughable.
14
He wasn't murdered for selling loosies. If he had complied with the officers, they would not have had to use physical force. Are you saying officers should just walk away everytime someone decides they would rather not go to jail? Whether they used too much force is another issue.
1
Eric Garner didn't die from a choke hold. He died because he was grossly over weight and asthmatic. A choke hold is when ones neck is clamped so tightly that the wind pipe is forced shut making it impossible to breathe, much less talk. Furthermore, it is clear from the video that the officer simply used a routine take down hold with any pressure being applied around the collar bone area. not the neck and windpipe. However, many people see what they want to see.
8
A chock hold killed Mr. Gardner per the investigation of the Coroner. A chock hold is a violation of police policy. The cause of death confirmed. A policy violation confirmed. The DA made every effort to obscure and supplant verbal evidence of witnesses during the Grand Jury review. The Grand Jury was observed behaving as disinterested parties in the pursuit of the truth, most likely because they were not the victims peers, but we're the officer's peers. A men sells $1 cigarettes and harassed daily even though he is known as a peace maker. Corporations violate the law everyday by committing tax fraud involving millions of dollars and never see or experience the violent response of the police, IRS officers, or a prison.
If you are comfortable with your tax dollars being applied to a criminal justice system that undermines constitutional rights by ignoring and supplanting evidence that should be sacrosanct in the pursuit of truth? What kind of citizen are you? If you value the protection of this perverse interlocking connection between police violence, a code of no consequence and a criminal processing system that applies a special bill of rights to the police that you and I do not have....well heaven and earth help us. Because you are now a certifiable fascist; deaf, dumb and blind to living in a fascist nation. And that means this nation is doomed.
If you are comfortable with your tax dollars being applied to a criminal justice system that undermines constitutional rights by ignoring and supplanting evidence that should be sacrosanct in the pursuit of truth? What kind of citizen are you? If you value the protection of this perverse interlocking connection between police violence, a code of no consequence and a criminal processing system that applies a special bill of rights to the police that you and I do not have....well heaven and earth help us. Because you are now a certifiable fascist; deaf, dumb and blind to living in a fascist nation. And that means this nation is doomed.
Many people do see what they want to see, including you.. Read the full article; there was clear medical evidence internally of a choke hold. Even more, none of the actions of the policemen from that point on are supportable; the compression of his head and back, the complete lack of response to his condition by all of them, including the emt's, the refusal to release any information, or the restrictions put on the witness testimony for the grand jury. It is obvious to any one looking at all the evidence that the police did a horrible job in this case, with no intelligence exercised. Much more effort has been expended trying to cover their tracks and absolve themselves of any blame.
Again, the actions of the police should fit the situation, and be used with some common sense and intelligence, and that wasn't done in this case, and resulted in an unwarranted death.
Again, the actions of the police should fit the situation, and be used with some common sense and intelligence, and that wasn't done in this case, and resulted in an unwarranted death.
If you read the coroner's report in the story you will find there were injuries to the neck caused by ,yes, a chokehold. . Not opinion but a fact.
4
As we continue to create a more divided society of haves and have nots the police are now an unfortunate symbol of the oppression of haves. As this divide grows deeper the lack of respect for police officers authority will continue to grow.
One segment of the population is allowed to use drugs, skirt around tax laws, and pay off individuals for past indiscretions. While another segment of the population will be persecuted for drugs, not paying taxes, and loitering in the street instead of high end restaurants where they attempt to pretend they are above the average person.
One segment of the population is allowed to use drugs, skirt around tax laws, and pay off individuals for past indiscretions. While another segment of the population will be persecuted for drugs, not paying taxes, and loitering in the street instead of high end restaurants where they attempt to pretend they are above the average person.
9
Your whole post is based upon conjectures fueled by your left wing progressive biases. Time to come down from the mountain for a reality check
1
The intimate connection between prosecutors and the police departments seems to be a big part of the reason police are not held accountable for their actions. In most of the recent publicised investigations into deaths of unarmed citizens by police, the position of prosecutor is clearly biased toward protecting the police. Prosecutors seem to routinely suppress and discount evidence, lead witnesses, and manufacture a grand jury investigation based on the predetermined decision towards an outcome benefiting the officers in question. If this relationship is distorting the process and outcomes of the G.J. investigations, why don't we separate the prosecutors from the police to arrive at a more fair and balanced judicial process? This seems like a no brainer to me, only prevented by the apathy and lethargy of a self perpetuating flawed and entrenched system.
7
Such a thorough piece leaves out that Mr. Garner had numerous arrests for drug sales, assault as well as the cigarette charges. A curious omission to say the least. And his obesity and medical condition were given rather short shrift as well.
The man flailed his arms and refused to be cuffed. They used reasonable force to take in this huge man. At least you did mention the considerable time officers took to try to talk him into cooperating. And you did mention that the autopsy showed no marks on his neck, rather unusual of a man allegedly choked to death.
Another anti cop hit piece from the Times. This summer, your crime reporters will be busy covering the rapidly increasing murder rate.
The man flailed his arms and refused to be cuffed. They used reasonable force to take in this huge man. At least you did mention the considerable time officers took to try to talk him into cooperating. And you did mention that the autopsy showed no marks on his neck, rather unusual of a man allegedly choked to death.
Another anti cop hit piece from the Times. This summer, your crime reporters will be busy covering the rapidly increasing murder rate.
8
In this NYT article: " An autopsy was performed the next day. “On external examination of the neck, there are no visible injuries,” according to the final report. On the inside, however, were telltale signs of choking: strap muscle hemorrhages in his neck and petechial hemorrhages in his eyes. No drugs or alcohol were in his system. "
This point was easily missed in this rather long article, but it's a finding that is too easily overlooked if you want a reason to write-off another unnecessary killing.
This point was easily missed in this rather long article, but it's a finding that is too easily overlooked if you want a reason to write-off another unnecessary killing.
6
They could have written a citation and de-escalated the situation. They are not judge, jury and executioner. He was tired of being harassed for selling loosies. No, he was not an angel...how many bankers committed crimes in 2007 & 2008 and never spent a day in jail, let alone died at the hands of the police?
For all those rational people with comments and questions here, the answers are readily available in a book entitled "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander. African Americans do indeed live in a police state. A quarter of their population have been deprived of their basic citizen rights through constant harassment and arrests by law enforcement that is out of control. I am an old white guy from Maine who recently spent a couple of weeks in NYC. Almost without exception, the arrogance of the police officers I observed there was disgusting
8
There is no controversy about this case, or at there shouldn't be. A 400 pound very unhealthy man verbally, and then physically, clearly refused to be arrested by officers who were left with no good choices. Physical force was the ONLY option these officers had. This idea that officers could have just declined to enforce the law is not rational.
This nonstory should filed in the Mike Brown cabinet: violent offenders solely responsible for their own deaths.
This nonstory should filed in the Mike Brown cabinet: violent offenders solely responsible for their own deaths.
10
I'm relieved that this wasn't a case of a gang of cops looking for a black man to kill as implied by some critics and most demonstrators, but why has our media taken so long to get the 'whole story' out? Could demoralized cops and rising violent crime rates have made it harder to publish "all the news that's fit to sell"?
I can't help to wonder how many will still think the cops were not compelled by law to enforce regulations that the public they serve demands through codified law/regulations. How many still think that quality of life (noise, dirt, disorder, public safety) are of little matter when we know that in such circumstances those who can, MOVE and detrimental activities increase.
Mr. Garners death was indeed tragic but certainly unintended. He'd been arrest 31 times before and certainly knows the 'drill". His choice to resist lawful arrest was his and his alone and to ruin the lives of first responders as result, is not only immoral, the results hurt all of us.
I can't help to wonder how many will still think the cops were not compelled by law to enforce regulations that the public they serve demands through codified law/regulations. How many still think that quality of life (noise, dirt, disorder, public safety) are of little matter when we know that in such circumstances those who can, MOVE and detrimental activities increase.
Mr. Garners death was indeed tragic but certainly unintended. He'd been arrest 31 times before and certainly knows the 'drill". His choice to resist lawful arrest was his and his alone and to ruin the lives of first responders as result, is not only immoral, the results hurt all of us.
7
Did you watch the 7 minute tape? All the way through? I have never seen any first responders act like that, and I was on a fire department staff for 10 years.
Police in the United States kill people every day, the vast majority of which are avoidable. The only difference in the cases that gained national attention is the video.
7
Dan, please give specific examples of "every day" avoidable killings by cops.
Specifics please
Why were the cops even out there picking on this guy. Can the cops tell by looking at a cigarette if it's taxed or untaxed. That said, it's not their business. That comes under the purview of the New York State Department of Taxation and Finance.
So why did the cop do it?
Because he could.
Armed to the teeth this diminutive cop thought he could bring a big man down. Nice going. Cops should be ashamed of this cop.
So why did the cop do it?
Because he could.
Armed to the teeth this diminutive cop thought he could bring a big man down. Nice going. Cops should be ashamed of this cop.
10
While garner's death was tragic, it sends the wrong message to lionize someone with 30 prior arrests, including arrests for selling loose, untaxed cigarettes; drug possession; driving without a valid license; and false impersonation, crimes for which Mr. Garner was out on bail at the time of the encounter with police, meaning that another arrest likely would have landed him an extended spell in prison pending disposition of the charges. This explains his having resisting arrest. It's a testament to the epistemic free-for-all of modern times that Garner's granddaughter shouts TV "hands up, don't shoot" at the television.
10
as opposed to romanticizing and idealizing the police?
4
Cite him or leave. Don't kill him.
EDP--"Epistemic" is an interesting adjective in this context--possibly a typo.
One wonders what would have happened, on the prior occasion when Mr. Garner was able to walk away after he shouted and "flailed his arms," had those officers chosen to attempt an arrest: post-taser heart attack?
One wonders what would have happened, on the prior occasion when Mr. Garner was able to walk away after he shouted and "flailed his arms," had those officers chosen to attempt an arrest: post-taser heart attack?
1
The "responders," that is the cops and the emergency medical team, refer to Mr. Gardner as "the perpetrator." Such in- and anti-human language says it all. To these officers, people they deal with are not people - they are perpetrators. An uglier word, an uglier sentiment, does not exist. Perhaps their difficult jobs make them incapable of feeling. Whatever the reason, something needs to change.
8
From reading a selction of the comments, and nt wanting to repeat. one othre salient issue in this valuable review is that -- everyone on that street knew Mr Garner and his mode of operations - the police knew him from surveillance only. The should have known he was a bit of peacekeeper in his own way, that he had a family, and should have entered into a conversation with him, rather than beginning with orders. They hadn't observed him selling cigarettes in that one tragic day's situation - unless I missed something here. So there was no need to create a confrontation in the first place - no need for an immediate arrest to protect anyone. Could they not have sought a warrant for his arrest based on information collected? If in fact they were impelled by the report of some sort of altercation, why didn't they try to understand it first? Policing is a tough job; it is going to involve confrontation. But for everyone's safety - the police have to be under scrutiny, and their leaders must seek ways to decrease tensions.
10
Excellent piece.
It seems clear that at least some officers treated Mr Garner as more a widget than a human being. You can almost hear them crying out "Next!" in anticipation of the next arrest. I wonder: A sergeant, according to this story, told officers to ease up because there was no chance that Mr. Garner would escape. The story suggests that this didn't happen. If it didn't happen, why not? Do officers get to decide which orders to obey and which ones they can ignore?
It seems clear that at least some officers treated Mr Garner as more a widget than a human being. You can almost hear them crying out "Next!" in anticipation of the next arrest. I wonder: A sergeant, according to this story, told officers to ease up because there was no chance that Mr. Garner would escape. The story suggests that this didn't happen. If it didn't happen, why not? Do officers get to decide which orders to obey and which ones they can ignore?
14
The article might have explored in further depth the charges being leveled by Mr. Orta's family and mentioned the fact that he was placed in jail in lieu of bail beyond his reach by the Staten Island DA's office - the same office that botched this grand jury - or rather aced it into giving the clean pass desired by the police. Orta gained freedom when many of us posted his plight in the comments section of the Times and elsewhere and crowd sourced his bail - another mention worthy fact relevant to the general circumstances defining the politics of Staten Island, which have always been police-centric and provincial.
The tagline of the piece points to another question for our city as a whole "Mr. Gjeshbitraj said in a recent interview that he no longer called the city or the police to complain about the conditions around his building, - The last time I called the cops, someone got choked to death,” he said. “Eric got killed because I called.” Should the police be the local government of our communities when it comes to economic licensure crimes? It seems not to work, and here did far more harm than good.
If there is a true villain and public criminal here it seems to be Daniel M. Donovan Jr., who was the Staten Island district attorney, fought to keep secret the testimony and other evidence presented to the grand jury. In May, Mr. Donovan was elected to Congress. It seems to be a popular criminal destination. He replaced the convicted Michael Grimm. Another bully.
The tagline of the piece points to another question for our city as a whole "Mr. Gjeshbitraj said in a recent interview that he no longer called the city or the police to complain about the conditions around his building, - The last time I called the cops, someone got choked to death,” he said. “Eric got killed because I called.” Should the police be the local government of our communities when it comes to economic licensure crimes? It seems not to work, and here did far more harm than good.
If there is a true villain and public criminal here it seems to be Daniel M. Donovan Jr., who was the Staten Island district attorney, fought to keep secret the testimony and other evidence presented to the grand jury. In May, Mr. Donovan was elected to Congress. It seems to be a popular criminal destination. He replaced the convicted Michael Grimm. Another bully.
35
DA's were a big part of the problem in the Garner case, and here in St. Louis in the Ferguson prosecution of Wilson.
3
Its always been this way in NY, from which I am a happy expatriate. I was young during the major police scandals and the follow-up investigatory commissions which accomplished, in the long run, exactly nothing. As a Brooklyn-born but mostly lifelong resident of Queens, I considered Staten Island dangerous alien territory.
Note that Patrick Lynch was just handily re-elected as President of the police union. He knows his constituency and they know him, and its mutual undying love.
And note also that the minute theres a slowdown in police activity, crime instantly rises and the mayor has to answer to an angry middle-class constituency that will write unhappy comments to tne NY Times about Mr. Garners death but demand a strong police presence.
This will never be fixed. Prosecutors have been in an unholy alliance with the police from the beginning of time, and know what happens if they try to break it. Everyone knows the police lie in and out of court; nothing has ever happened to anyone in the justice system when unfairly convicted people are released after their entire lives have been destroyed. Municipalities pay the lawsuit judgment and raise taxes to cover it.
Note that Patrick Lynch was just handily re-elected as President of the police union. He knows his constituency and they know him, and its mutual undying love.
And note also that the minute theres a slowdown in police activity, crime instantly rises and the mayor has to answer to an angry middle-class constituency that will write unhappy comments to tne NY Times about Mr. Garners death but demand a strong police presence.
This will never be fixed. Prosecutors have been in an unholy alliance with the police from the beginning of time, and know what happens if they try to break it. Everyone knows the police lie in and out of court; nothing has ever happened to anyone in the justice system when unfairly convicted people are released after their entire lives have been destroyed. Municipalities pay the lawsuit judgment and raise taxes to cover it.
10
A well-researched article that in the end raises many questions which are either unanswered, or for which no good answers exist. Among them, should low-level criminal activities be ignored or condoned? Yes, selling loose cigarettes is a minor crime, but as the article pointed out, it provides a cover for the sale of drugs (a much more serious crime), and it does lower the quality of life for the inhabitants of buildings in areas where these activities occur. Another: how should the police act when confronted by a 380 lb individual who does not want to follow orders he is given? Mr. Garner had been warned and arrested, knew his activity was illegal, but refused to desist. The chokehold may have been the wrong response, but what would have been the correct one? And a third: did Mr. Garner have any skills which would have allowed him to obtain a legal job, and to what extent were his health issues an external impediment, and to what extent did behavior cause or aggravate them? This is not an attempt to blame the victim, or exonerate the actions of the police. It is an attempt to show that everyone in this tragedy was presented with a series of choices, none of which were good ones. I believe that is the true definition of "tragedy.,"
12
As a health professional, this just turns my stomach. The unprofessional and disgusting disregard for human life is almost unbelievable. These people: Health professionals?, as well as police should be charged and punished for homicide. They are a disgrace!! These officers, and medical?personnel should never be allowed to interact with the public ever again.
13
Shameful, only in Amerika are people murdered for being poor and/or of color and/or for trying to survive.
I applaud the spirit of Eric Garner who it appears, sought to provide for his family even though "his hands were tied" by social mandates. In any ways his acts and defiance can be viewed as a refusal to participate in an unjust system that uses taxes to fuel war, prisons, corporate welfare....
Institutional practices and the law that supports corporate power, greed, psychopathy; the "rights" of a very few at the expense of the many result in things like the for profit prisons and all aspects of the public and private spheres working to perpetuate power for the corrupt.
This is shameful, this country is deluded and shameful, I feel shameful.
I applaud the spirit of Eric Garner who it appears, sought to provide for his family even though "his hands were tied" by social mandates. In any ways his acts and defiance can be viewed as a refusal to participate in an unjust system that uses taxes to fuel war, prisons, corporate welfare....
Institutional practices and the law that supports corporate power, greed, psychopathy; the "rights" of a very few at the expense of the many result in things like the for profit prisons and all aspects of the public and private spheres working to perpetuate power for the corrupt.
This is shameful, this country is deluded and shameful, I feel shameful.
10
Excellent report on the unfortunate outcome when a criminal resisted arrest and then struggled when arrested. Laws of probability at work.
God, can you just imagine the number of times these poor unfortunate Guardians of civility have to struggle with the petty criminal - uncooperative, belligerent and violent?
God, can you just imagine the number of times these poor unfortunate Guardians of civility have to struggle with the petty criminal - uncooperative, belligerent and violent?
6
While this is a well-written article, if one wishes to go to the source regarding Mr.Garner's death then going back to at least the Whiskey Rebellion of the 1790's.
Mr. Garner's fatal "interaction" with police occurred over the evasion of an excise tax - opposition to which was a major issue in Britain for over a century before American independence and generally reviled by all but a small but powerful clique of commercial interests, the One Percent of their day.
Opposition was not to taxes generally, but to excise taxes in particular due to their intrusiveness and tendency to impact poorer people disproportionately.
Unfortunately, the One Percenters and George Washington's "Watermelon Army" prevailed in the short run, but the conflict has continued for over two centuries now, from whiskey to tobacco to marijuana and the death toll still continues.
Nothing as expensive, as they say, as ignorance - especially of one's own history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
Mr. Garner's fatal "interaction" with police occurred over the evasion of an excise tax - opposition to which was a major issue in Britain for over a century before American independence and generally reviled by all but a small but powerful clique of commercial interests, the One Percent of their day.
Opposition was not to taxes generally, but to excise taxes in particular due to their intrusiveness and tendency to impact poorer people disproportionately.
Unfortunately, the One Percenters and George Washington's "Watermelon Army" prevailed in the short run, but the conflict has continued for over two centuries now, from whiskey to tobacco to marijuana and the death toll still continues.
Nothing as expensive, as they say, as ignorance - especially of one's own history:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
1
And if we abolish such taxes, career criminals like Mr. Garner would no doubt move on to legitimate jobs? More likely he would return to his previous specialty, selling drugs. The fact is the man got too old and fat to continue to sell drugs and moved on the lest competitive untaxed cigarette market.
1
When police act like criminals they should be treated accordingly. Clearly the more dangerous persons in this incident were the police, who had no justifiable reason to tackle Mr. Garner to the ground. He asked not to be restrained with the assumption being he would've willfully been placed in the cruiser. Cops used force for the most trivial of crimes, selling a lousy cigarette. all this could've and
should've been avoided. This was an unarmed man who posed no threat.
The officers need to be indicted for their true crime at the scene, not the misdemeanor committed by Garner. Cops have to be smart and non violent sometimes. Maybe the police need a secondary team of people to police them at crime scenes. I have witnessed them overreacting many times, fortunately without fatal consequences, but I could see it wouldn't take much.
should've been avoided. This was an unarmed man who posed no threat.
The officers need to be indicted for their true crime at the scene, not the misdemeanor committed by Garner. Cops have to be smart and non violent sometimes. Maybe the police need a secondary team of people to police them at crime scenes. I have witnessed them overreacting many times, fortunately without fatal consequences, but I could see it wouldn't take much.
10
The government's attempt at behavior modification through excessive taxation of cigarettes (and alcohol) has nothing to do with Garner's death. Garner's death, like that of Brown in Ferguson or Scott in South Carolina or Gray in Baltimore are the fault of those resisting arrest. Every one of these confrontations, including that girl in the bikini, could be averted by simply doing what the police officer tells you. The police are doing their job. They are the authority in these situations. If you don't like what happened, take it up with the judge and sue for false arrest. But fighting and high-speed chases are not the way.
The press simply makes hay with these situations and stirs up anger and resentment for more riots and press. They are still calling Garner's death do to a chokehold. It was not a chokehold, it was a headlock. He was saying he couldn't breathe, even when no one was touching him. Garner was doing what a lot of people I've arrested do, or what prisoners in jail did, whine and complain, "I refuse; you're hurting me; I can't breathe," like they did with their parents when they were kids. It must have worked then. Not now. Now, simply do what the nice police officer tells you
The press simply makes hay with these situations and stirs up anger and resentment for more riots and press. They are still calling Garner's death do to a chokehold. It was not a chokehold, it was a headlock. He was saying he couldn't breathe, even when no one was touching him. Garner was doing what a lot of people I've arrested do, or what prisoners in jail did, whine and complain, "I refuse; you're hurting me; I can't breathe," like they did with their parents when they were kids. It must have worked then. Not now. Now, simply do what the nice police officer tells you
8
So according to Jerry Sturdivant, the proper response for those protesting the commands of a police officer or objecting to their arrest is the instant administration of lethal force.
4
No, it's not, and you can't show where it is.
He was a "condition", men were loitering, selling loosies (or not), drugs (or not) but mainly an annoyance, a big broken window.
These officers knew to take these people out of circulation, any means necessary, as they were a blight to certain of the neighbors and politicians.
So where should we put the poor, the ill, the unemployable who are trying to survive?
We can't just round them all up, imprison or kill all the poor. Eh, lawmakers?
Poverty in the US is growing & no one wants to see it.
Black lives do not matter if they have no money or power. The police are enforcing rules they received from the landed gentry, they do a job. Rules need to change as knowlege increases, as in any area.
Eric Garner's video being choked to death is still as shocking & distressing as it was that night, no heat has dissipated. Stonewalling makes it worse.
But at higher levels we have to seriously address poverty or see more like it.
This nation needs a reboot and dose of humanism vs win at all costs capitalism or we all lose our humanity.
These officers knew to take these people out of circulation, any means necessary, as they were a blight to certain of the neighbors and politicians.
So where should we put the poor, the ill, the unemployable who are trying to survive?
We can't just round them all up, imprison or kill all the poor. Eh, lawmakers?
Poverty in the US is growing & no one wants to see it.
Black lives do not matter if they have no money or power. The police are enforcing rules they received from the landed gentry, they do a job. Rules need to change as knowlege increases, as in any area.
Eric Garner's video being choked to death is still as shocking & distressing as it was that night, no heat has dissipated. Stonewalling makes it worse.
But at higher levels we have to seriously address poverty or see more like it.
This nation needs a reboot and dose of humanism vs win at all costs capitalism or we all lose our humanity.
11
Couldn't a permanent police presence, two or three uniformed officers, have taken care of the illicit cigarette and drug sales in this neighborhood?
1
At 50+ years of age I have two legal infractions. Both for an expired inspection sticker on my car. Both because the State of NY does not give its Certified inspection sites enough stickers.
In both incidents my car was pulled over by a police vehicle. The last conversation went like this:
He with hand on gun: I am stopping you because of an expired inspection.
Me with wrists on my steering wheel: Oops. Ok.
He: License and registration please.
Me with wrists on wheel: Ok. I need to reach over my head to get my registration.
He: Ok.
Me with wrists back on wheel: Now I need to reach into my right jacket pocked for my license.
He: OK.
He: Give me a minute.
He, laughing: You only have one other incident and it was for the same thing?
Me with wrists on wheel: Inspection is the only thing that expires without getting a notice, and no one seems to have the stickers.
He: I stopped you so I have to give you a citation, but send it in with a receipt for your inspection and the judge will likely waive the charges.
Me with wrists on wheel: Thank you.
He: Have a good day.
No choke hold. No shooting. Was it because I am a white male over 50? Nope. It was because I was cooperative, careful and not a habitual offender of the law.
Its not that hard.
Garner was a habitual offender in a group of offenders. Garner did not cooperate in any way. Garner was not careful in any way. Did he deserve to die? No. Did the officers enforcing the law set out to kill Garner? Also no.
In both incidents my car was pulled over by a police vehicle. The last conversation went like this:
He with hand on gun: I am stopping you because of an expired inspection.
Me with wrists on my steering wheel: Oops. Ok.
He: License and registration please.
Me with wrists on wheel: Ok. I need to reach over my head to get my registration.
He: Ok.
Me with wrists back on wheel: Now I need to reach into my right jacket pocked for my license.
He: OK.
He: Give me a minute.
He, laughing: You only have one other incident and it was for the same thing?
Me with wrists on wheel: Inspection is the only thing that expires without getting a notice, and no one seems to have the stickers.
He: I stopped you so I have to give you a citation, but send it in with a receipt for your inspection and the judge will likely waive the charges.
Me with wrists on wheel: Thank you.
He: Have a good day.
No choke hold. No shooting. Was it because I am a white male over 50? Nope. It was because I was cooperative, careful and not a habitual offender of the law.
Its not that hard.
Garner was a habitual offender in a group of offenders. Garner did not cooperate in any way. Garner was not careful in any way. Did he deserve to die? No. Did the officers enforcing the law set out to kill Garner? Also no.
8
Ah, yes, a habitual offender of the heinous crime of selling loose cigarettes. Surely if NYPD let that slide, society would descend into a Mad Max-ish hellhole. I also couldn't help but notice that in your zeal to blame Garner for his death, you studiously avoided the fact that the cop ignored his own NYPD training and handbook rules that forbid the use of a chokehold. But let's let that one slide because unlike selling loosies, what possible negative thing could happen from a little friendly chokehold in the name of good old law & order? And it worked. Garner will never again sully the fine streets of Staten Island with his filthy mayhem. Lesson learned.
4
I find it a little chilling that in a routine stop for a bureaucratic error, you felt you had to tell the officer every little action you were doing in order re-assure him you were not s threat. Why did have his hand on his weapon? Everyone seems to live in fear and uncertainty.
6
Funny, I'm 50+ and white. I've been stopped for an expired inspection sticker twice. Once my local garage had overlooked it and I'd just gotten a tune up. The cop warned me and let me go. I went to the garage and they fixed it in an hour. Then recently, a state trooper pulled me over. "Wow, stupid me," I explained, "I never noticed my inspection is a few months out of phase with my registration." "That's OK sir," she said, "It's the wrong color, it just expired last week, you'll be fine if you get it taken care of." "Thanks a lot, for not giving me a citation for being oblivious," I said. My point - I'm white. I've never gotten any citation. But, I might have several if I weren't white. That is the absolutely not that hard to understand.
To the point that Garner was a habitual offender - yes -and as such he was trying to find a way to get by with the least disruption to his business. To your point that he was not cooperative, yes, as the article points out, he had gotten by with a variation of civil disobedience in the past, when inconvenient petty arrests were bothersome to the police. He did not know that now it was a targeted item. The officers set out to enforce the law in that spirit. Did they explain this? No. Might they have? Yes. If they had displayed an iota of the time and patience the Kalamazoo, Michigan police spent with the Armalite rifle bearing drunk at an intersection trying to provoke them - Garner would have not resisted arrest. To bad.
To the point that Garner was a habitual offender - yes -and as such he was trying to find a way to get by with the least disruption to his business. To your point that he was not cooperative, yes, as the article points out, he had gotten by with a variation of civil disobedience in the past, when inconvenient petty arrests were bothersome to the police. He did not know that now it was a targeted item. The officers set out to enforce the law in that spirit. Did they explain this? No. Might they have? Yes. If they had displayed an iota of the time and patience the Kalamazoo, Michigan police spent with the Armalite rifle bearing drunk at an intersection trying to provoke them - Garner would have not resisted arrest. To bad.
5
This article provides only a small amount of additional information from earlier reporting. One thing it does is repeat the idea that Eric Garner was choked to death. I have watched and listened to the videos many times and cannot agree with that conclusion.
The very first time that I heard Eric Garner utter the words, "I can't breathe", he was lying on the pavement with nothing around his neck. One officer (the one who pulled him down) was pressing Garner's face to the ground. Other officers were piled on top of Garner's torso. It seems to me most likely that the weight of the officers combined with the strain of the situation made it impossible for Garner to catch his breath.
The videos afterwards (when Garner ceased to struggle and was probably unconscious) show the police's distinct lack of interest, urgency, and responsibility for Garner's life. I believe that is where attention should be focused and not on the 'chokehold'.
The very first time that I heard Eric Garner utter the words, "I can't breathe", he was lying on the pavement with nothing around his neck. One officer (the one who pulled him down) was pressing Garner's face to the ground. Other officers were piled on top of Garner's torso. It seems to me most likely that the weight of the officers combined with the strain of the situation made it impossible for Garner to catch his breath.
The videos afterwards (when Garner ceased to struggle and was probably unconscious) show the police's distinct lack of interest, urgency, and responsibility for Garner's life. I believe that is where attention should be focused and not on the 'chokehold'.
6
There were internal injuries at the neck area which were found to be a "telltale" sign of choking. This was stated in the article. In light of that, I'd say the chokehold was significant in that it eventually led to his inability to breathe, and the actions of the all the other officers exacerbated it.
1
Exactly.
As I've said, perhaps the NYT could do us the service of writing an article entitled "What Killed Eric Garner?"
Such an article would include getting copies of the autopsy and arrest video and reviewing them with medical experts, experts on chokeholds, and experts on policing. And, of course, it would be important that these experts not have a political or sensationalist agenda.
I think, quite likely, their conclusion would be that Eric Garner was not choked, and certainly not choked to death; that the physical and emotional stress of being arrested and subdued, especially the compression of his chest, aggravated his already poor health (morbid obesity, asthma, hypertension, diabetes, etc.), resulting in cardiac arrest; and that, once Mr. Garner was subdued, the police and EMT's under-reacted to his physical distress (keeping him lying face down, not performing CPR, not providing oxygen, etc.) because they failed to recognize the seriousness of his situation, lacked the proper training and supervision, and/or acted with outright callous disregard.
As I've said, perhaps the NYT could do us the service of writing an article entitled "What Killed Eric Garner?"
Such an article would include getting copies of the autopsy and arrest video and reviewing them with medical experts, experts on chokeholds, and experts on policing. And, of course, it would be important that these experts not have a political or sensationalist agenda.
I think, quite likely, their conclusion would be that Eric Garner was not choked, and certainly not choked to death; that the physical and emotional stress of being arrested and subdued, especially the compression of his chest, aggravated his already poor health (morbid obesity, asthma, hypertension, diabetes, etc.), resulting in cardiac arrest; and that, once Mr. Garner was subdued, the police and EMT's under-reacted to his physical distress (keeping him lying face down, not performing CPR, not providing oxygen, etc.) because they failed to recognize the seriousness of his situation, lacked the proper training and supervision, and/or acted with outright callous disregard.
1
(1) It is unconscionable that these "ripped," tattooed, gym rat cops, didn't have the decency (or perhaps knowledge or training) to perform CPR on their unresponsive captive. Are not NYPD police officers not trained in CPR? You shouldn't have to wait for 911 responders to arrive. (2) there is no sense of legal proportionality here. There are millionaire/billionare residents of NYC who have the resources to avoid taxes while the poor get dinged for not paying taxes on revenue they receive for selling cigarettes or for taxes they have not paid on the cigarettes they've brought into the state. We are lookng more and more like a banana republic.
22
Our "justice" system needs new scales to weigh crimes and new glasses to expose the racism inherent. While millionaire and billionaire white men and their minions crash the world economy and continue to receive "free" loans from our government after receiving billions of bailout cash, we are still chasing and incarcerating black men for minor offenses for ridiculous amounts of time. Mr Garner cared about his neighbors and was not a threat but a peacekeeper in that neighborhood. Selling untaxed cigarettes got him killed! Of all the tax crimes in New York City or New York State his was miniscule. The home of Wall Street should be ashamed of what it calls "justice".
18
One thing that's never been clear to me is this. On the video, before the choke hold, you hear one officer tell Garner that a witness had seen him selling cigarettes; I think the officer was lying, that no one had complained. That would mean there was no probable cause for the arrest. Has this ever been clarified?
5
The devil is in the details. It is rare that we see all the news that is fit to print, or necessary to come to useful conclusions, in today's internet driven, short attention span media. Buried in the details of this encounter are obvious ways to prevent such situations. They are simple to see yet complicated to implement, but only because implementation would explicitly change the power balance between those who benefit from laws and those who suffer from them.
4
The ongoing executions of unarmed American citizens is pathetic. This is not my America. And, the fact that most Americans think this is not their problem is even more bewildering. Will these deaths alarm us when it starts happening to people we know? I am frightened for the future of this country. #shameful
9
It sounds like this guy was pretty much a career criminal. It looks like he broke the law pretty much every day of his life. That doesn't mean he deserved to die but when you engage in lawbreaking activity as a matter of course you put yourself in a position for really bad things to happen to you. Thats just a fact. Its an early lesson in life for any child. You lose control over your own destiny when you engage in risky behavior. Sorry.
6
“[Mr, Hopkins] chief boast was his ability to manage slaves. The peculiar feature of his government was in advance of of deserving it. He always managed to have one or more of his slaves to whip every morning. He did this to alarm their fears, and strike terror into those who escaped. His plan was to whip for the smallest offenses, to prevent the commission of a larger one.” This from Fredrick Douglas autobiography, Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, an American Slave. He then lists all the things someone could be whipped for. It all sounded terrifyingly familiar.
9
Thanks for an insightful post. One that highlights an aspect of policing relevant yet unexamined by the authors' look "Beyond the Chokehold."
1
How does a "friend" take 16 minutes of video without intervening or calling for help?
6
Brux... When the police are the wrong doers, who was the "friend" supposed to call? Your comment shows no knowledge of street life and suggests another attempt to blame the victims. Bigotry, perhaps?
6
Call who? Who should have been called? The police? An ambulance?
When the police are the perpetrators there is no one to call!
Hindsight's 20/20 but someone should have called a lawyer for Eric Garner.
When the police are the perpetrators there is no one to call!
Hindsight's 20/20 but someone should have called a lawyer for Eric Garner.
5
Intervening against police who are engaged the administration of lethal violence (killing) is always unwise and unsuccessful --and errand for the naive or suicidal.
We have now seen several cases where after incapacitating a civilian, police stand around and do nothing while the person dies.
Eric Garner -- as this article details
Tamir Rice. -- Police actually stopped his sister from helping him.
Walter Scott -- first shot in the back, then handcuffed and ignored.
I think a few prosecutors need to be charged and tried as accessories to murder after the fact. Who has the power and the will to do that?
Eric Garner -- as this article details
Tamir Rice. -- Police actually stopped his sister from helping him.
Walter Scott -- first shot in the back, then handcuffed and ignored.
I think a few prosecutors need to be charged and tried as accessories to murder after the fact. Who has the power and the will to do that?
11
The Eric Garner case caught national attention, but it's far from an isolated case. An even more horrific crime took place in suburban Westchester County. I say "even more" because the victim was a senior citizen, in his apartment, minding his own business. The victim was Kenneth Chamberlain, an upstanding citizen who had served his country and his community before retirement. http://socialistworker.org/2012/05/14/failure-to-indict-killer-police
4
This was, as you say, completely horrific. It is incomprehensible that no one has been held accountable for this man's murder.
4
They (suspect/police/EMTs) all made a lot of mistakes. Hopefully Mr Garner's death will be a point of light in a long night of disorder and deterrence.
1
Cold blooded murder!
The cop should be convicted for murder, and his fellow cops were accessories to the crime.
The EMS tech should lose her license for her incompetence at the scene.
The only hope for the NYPD is to acknowledge these facts.
The cop should be convicted for murder, and his fellow cops were accessories to the crime.
The EMS tech should lose her license for her incompetence at the scene.
The only hope for the NYPD is to acknowledge these facts.
9
It wasn't broken windows policing that led to his death, nor was he killed for committing a "trivial violation." Mr. Garner died, unfortunately, because instead of following the Officer's orders, he walked away and resisted a lawful detention/arrest. HIS behavior forced the Officers to use force. What Mr. Garner seemingly didn't know, is that it doesn't matter whether he thought the police stopped him for a stupid reason. Supreme Court case law has established that citizens must submit even to a false arrest, and seek recourse through the courts later. For example, you believe you stopped at a stop sign but an Officer tries to stop you. You must yield, submit to the citation process, and fight it in court later. If you flee from the Officer, he will pursue you, and you put your life in danger by doing so. It's extremely simple, and most people instinctively understand. There are some people who believe these "trivial" violations should not be illegal, and they become confrontational, if not downright violent, when stopped by the police. Mr. Garner was clearly one of these people, and he paid for it with his life. And another thing. If you don't want the police to enforce a law, you need to remove that law from the books. Don't expect the police to turn a blind eye to illegal behavior which is occurring right in front of them, especially when they are getting numerous complaints from your fellow citizens who want these laws enforced even more vigorously.
9
Koa... I hope that one day you will spend indefinite time in the Rikers island facility - falsely accused - while complying with the consequences of your callused observation that, "Supreme Court case law has established that citizens must submit even to a false arrest, and seek recourse through the courts later. " MANY of the inmates you will meet there are victims of the revolving door injustice system.
1
'turn a blind eye to illegal behavior"? like to war criminals? corporate criminals?sweat shop owners? financial criminals?environmental criminals?
1
To me the key is to do nothing that will bring you into a confrontation with the police. Running away from trouble is still in vogue.
3
How grateful I am that The Times and its skilled reporters and researchers are there to do the kind of digging that goes behind the sensationalism. Thanks for putting this in perspective.
My condolences to the family.
My condolences to the family.
5
A powerful and moving story about how the "kings of the streets," aka police officers, acting out in their overly forceful way, ended a remarkable life, and threw so many other lives into chaos and turmoil.
5
There's a lot of commenters referencing how the tax law is "minor" or "trivial"...but as far as our state legislature and the NY city council are concerned, violating tax law is hardly trivial.
After all, it's those two governing bodies who repeatedly raised taxes on cigarettes - at first using public health as a justification, and then when nobody was buying that any more, finally being honest and saying it was all about the money. As in billions. Which is not trivial if you prize the presence of a large public sector workforce, and voters have said they want just that. Voters have also said they'd rather not pay for the large public sector workforce, and maybe those ignorant smokers can pick up the tab. So here we are.
Unmentioned in this article is the massive scale of cigarette-tax evasion. The legislature and council have made New York a bootleggers' paradise. No wonder Eric Garner (and far larger operations) went into it. The market is obvious. A day trip to Virginia for just one case of cigarettes is over two grand in profit back in the city.
Smart cops wouldn't want Eric Garner dead. What for? If he pays his fines when arrested, that makes it easier to make quota (sorry, meant to say performance goal), which appears very much to be what NYPD brass and the politicians value most and never mind what they say for public consumption.
After all, it's those two governing bodies who repeatedly raised taxes on cigarettes - at first using public health as a justification, and then when nobody was buying that any more, finally being honest and saying it was all about the money. As in billions. Which is not trivial if you prize the presence of a large public sector workforce, and voters have said they want just that. Voters have also said they'd rather not pay for the large public sector workforce, and maybe those ignorant smokers can pick up the tab. So here we are.
Unmentioned in this article is the massive scale of cigarette-tax evasion. The legislature and council have made New York a bootleggers' paradise. No wonder Eric Garner (and far larger operations) went into it. The market is obvious. A day trip to Virginia for just one case of cigarettes is over two grand in profit back in the city.
Smart cops wouldn't want Eric Garner dead. What for? If he pays his fines when arrested, that makes it easier to make quota (sorry, meant to say performance goal), which appears very much to be what NYPD brass and the politicians value most and never mind what they say for public consumption.
27
What about the cops. They broke the law. They lied on their police report (illegal) and conspired to make up a story ommitting the fact that a chokehold, which was itself illegal, was used (again illegal). How can anyone not believe this was a wilfull act indended to cover up wrong doing rather than a simple ommission. Yes there are consequence to illegal behavior but why are the cops exempt? This is what fosters disrepect for the law.
This is not "one bad apple" all these cops are corrupt! They cover for each other. They would all kill poor people in a heartbeat. They are there for the rich white people. That's all there is to it.
6
While chokeholds are dangerous, as this was, the cops were not trying to kill the criminal. And here's a guy who continually violates the law, yes he's not a robber, but he's a misdemeanor criminal who flaunts the law, and doesn't work at a job because it is easier to sell illegal cigs on the street. The owner of the building who complained about him and others is now probably afraid, and rightly so, that his building will be torched. My family owned a building where guys would hang out outside and we had to stop the use of illegal drugs and all there, and we're in the south. I think it's sad that the guy died from a chokehold, but I also think that if the guy had submitted and peacefully had been arrested, he'd be alive today............and that his huge size and his eating habits contributed to his death. 400 pounds and he'd just eaten what? And then fought the cops.
39
Your justifications still make it accidental homicide - except a cop was involved.
What you say and how you say it make your attitudes and assumptions about what it is to be down and out (never mind black) crystal clear - and I find them offensive at best.
What you say and how you say it make your attitudes and assumptions about what it is to be down and out (never mind black) crystal clear - and I find them offensive at best.
Partlycloudy you are totally off track. A man is dead. There were many mistakes made. We need to insist on better policing, and better overall response. There is nothing else to say. These police escalated the situation. Who was in control? The police. No. I don't think so. They should have handled this situation in a different manner. These cops need training on how to handle this type of situation. Think first. Determine the problem, find a best solution to the problem, then act. Think logically not reactively. If there is a problem on this corner, patrol this corner. Be proactive. Maybe that would decrease revenue, decrease numbers? Is that the reason this proactive tactic was not used? We have become a society of beancounters. Numbers numbers numbers for those who higher up to point to and say look we are improving, without doing legwork. Without talking to the cops on the beat. Without seeing for themselves how things are going. This problem is not unique to this profession either. Reliance on numbers. It's the lazy way out.
Choke holds have been banned by the NYPD since 1993.
Mr. Gjeshbitraj is no longer even calling the police. Citizens like Mr. Gjeshbitraj won't call any more because, like badly trained dogs, one doesn't know who is going to be bitten when the pack arrives.
You want a dog to be friendly to family and visitors, to alert when something unusual happens, and to bite when there is danger.
The vast majority of dogs get it right. The badly trained ones that hurt people get a trip to the pound and don't come back, mostly without a lot of expensive inquiries.
You want a dog to be friendly to family and visitors, to alert when something unusual happens, and to bite when there is danger.
The vast majority of dogs get it right. The badly trained ones that hurt people get a trip to the pound and don't come back, mostly without a lot of expensive inquiries.
3
Since childhood I have been told by those who know that it is the 'Mob' who controls bringing in un & undertaxed cigarettes...why didn't this reporter make any reference to organized crime? no 'lone ranger' is driving out-of-state. Eric Garner was probably the low unknowing man on the totem pole of an old racket.Eric Garner neither deserved nor earned his death. The Feds should have handled 99.99% of the aspects of un/undertaxed cigarettes entering New York City.
3
Unarmed suspects or people killed, extended solitary confinement is being debated weather it is harmful for mental health, waterboarding is torture or not, extended imprisonment of people for minor drug possession and applying third strike law and not helping people when they are down on luck ..... it sounds like something that maybe happening in rogue state not our America.
29
I have wondered about why no CPR was administered in the first video I saw where the police officer murdered Eric Garner with the stranglehold. The aftermath video from this article is telling. No CPR was administered because 1) EMS definitely knew he was already dead (I can't prove this but the initial medic's reaction was that she knew he had no pulse and wasn't breathing but was covering for the cops for crowd control, the cop mumbled to her that she was being recorded, and she was covering for the cops) and 2) the cops didn't care whether Garner lived or died. The aftermath video is truly appalling—steroid poisoned cops laughing and one skinny cop waving at the camera, none of them administering CPR, none of them objecting to a dead man being in handcuffs, and one of the cop has the nerve to tell the person recording to "back up" to let Garner breathe. Disgusting. It's obvious that the easiest way to get away with murder is to be a police officer in the United States.
35
There have been many reports written on this case. Some highlighted the fact that there was no effort to resuscitate. This is gross negligence, without a doubt. Furthermore, some reports claim that he actually did have a pulse and died in the ambulance. In my opinion, every professional on the scene should have been suspended without pay until further inquiry, based on the fact that they failed to attempt resuscitation. An obese individual will have difficulty breathing when placed face down, whether they have been choked, have asthma or not. The belly fat pushes the liver up into the lung area. The entire episode is a nightmare..... all for a minor infraction of the law, that shouldn't warrant more than a summons.
8
Gee, Kevin, if we are allowed to make the totally unwarranted conclusions you do in this comment, we readers may surely safely assume that you are a Chicago thug criminal, right?
Even you seem to admit it ["I cant prove this, but...]. It is the "but" in that sentence that is the revealing problem: you don't know what you are talking about but are willing to foment hatred, violence and looting on the basis of your lousy assumptions.
Even you seem to admit it ["I cant prove this, but...]. It is the "but" in that sentence that is the revealing problem: you don't know what you are talking about but are willing to foment hatred, violence and looting on the basis of your lousy assumptions.
1
If you bother to look at the video of the EMS response, you will notice that when they lift him onto the stretcher, he is holding his head up.
Prior to that, you will see the EMS tech taking his pulse and with no sign of alarm confirming something to the cop--likely that he does indeed have a pulse--since she then starts talking to Garner. The cop then says to another cop "He's breathing," which we hear the EMS confidently confirm off-camera.
The Grand Jury also found that no crime was committed in the use of a chokehold which, while a risky maneuver (and therefore against police rules), is not deadly force.
Eric Garner was a very unhealthy man, which is what killed him shortly after he resisted arrest.
Look past your need for approval from the segments of society whose idolization you feel defines virtue. Instead, examine the facts and draw an independent conclusion.
Prior to that, you will see the EMS tech taking his pulse and with no sign of alarm confirming something to the cop--likely that he does indeed have a pulse--since she then starts talking to Garner. The cop then says to another cop "He's breathing," which we hear the EMS confidently confirm off-camera.
The Grand Jury also found that no crime was committed in the use of a chokehold which, while a risky maneuver (and therefore against police rules), is not deadly force.
Eric Garner was a very unhealthy man, which is what killed him shortly after he resisted arrest.
Look past your need for approval from the segments of society whose idolization you feel defines virtue. Instead, examine the facts and draw an independent conclusion.
What bothers me is that when a witness is caught lying in court it casts doubt on the credibility of his entire statement, yet when cops are found to have lied on their arrest reports, there never seem to be any consequences. If cops can lie without fear of consequences, how can anyone ever know what took place during an arrest.
44
So why is Dan Pantaleo still drawing a salary after strangling an unarmed man?
60
Good question. I'd like to add, why isn't he being prosecuted for the crime of murder?
3
Maybe because he was doing his job? Your bias for criminals is blatant.
1
Garner was not strangled.
1
Concerns that readers of this article might have can be directed to the Richmond County (Staten Island) District Attorney's office:
[email protected]
or by visiting the Staten Island DA's web page:
http://rcda.nyc.gov/index.html
[email protected]
or by visiting the Staten Island DA's web page:
http://rcda.nyc.gov/index.html
9
...Or by supporting police who enforce enforce law which politicians create.
Actually the DA concerned is now a Congressman, showing that Staten Islanders do NOT believe what they read in the NY TImes, thank God!
Broken windows = shattered lives. R.I.P. Eric Garner.
14
Garner knew he was breaking the law and was trying to evade arrest. If he'd gone quietly, this would not have happened.
This is not an excuse for police misconduct. But the facts are the facts.
If you don't enforce the laws, why have them?
This is not an excuse for police misconduct. But the facts are the facts.
If you don't enforce the laws, why have them?
1
Bad police and policing must be held accountable. This is by no means attacking ALL police. There are good police officers doing their jobs to protect and serve.
The problem is this culture of silence with all police believing they all bleed blue. I understand they feel only another police officer will protect their backs. But there must be a way to separate the good cop from the bad cop, which I believe are a very few and far in between but still very deadly.
Also there must be a special prosecutor in police shootings of unarmed victims. Why would anyone with common sense believe the this prosecutor who depend upon these same police to get him convictions which helps him keep his job, now will indict one of these same police officers. The conflict of interest is staggering. Let's find a way to allow justice to be done without placing prosecutors in these situations and from when indicting one police it is not an attack on all police.
The problem is this culture of silence with all police believing they all bleed blue. I understand they feel only another police officer will protect their backs. But there must be a way to separate the good cop from the bad cop, which I believe are a very few and far in between but still very deadly.
Also there must be a special prosecutor in police shootings of unarmed victims. Why would anyone with common sense believe the this prosecutor who depend upon these same police to get him convictions which helps him keep his job, now will indict one of these same police officers. The conflict of interest is staggering. Let's find a way to allow justice to be done without placing prosecutors in these situations and from when indicting one police it is not an attack on all police.
20
'The business of loose cigarettes is simple and longstanding. Drive to Pennsylvania or Delaware or a nearby Indian reservation. Return to heavily taxed New York City with cheaper boxes of cigarettes. Sell for a profit. Repeat.'
So-called 'liberals' and so-called 'conservatives' alike need a better grasp of economics and the inevitable interplay between economics, poverty and crime.
If cigarettes are taxed more cheaply at a given time and place in market A than they are in Market B, then there is an economic incentive to buy low-taxed goods in Market A and resell them in Market B. This is an inevitable consequence of having local taxing regimes for easily transported, high value goods such as tobacco.
The fix for such incentives is to get rid of all local sales taxes, at least on goods, and instead to have a single, federal VAT or GST on all goods – and, ideally, on all services. If 10% nationwide, the revenue raised would be sufficient to pay for a proper US national health service.
If the federal rate were round about 20%, as it is in much of the EU, then all of the USA's fiscal problems could be solved. But the one and only thing that so-called US 'liberals' and 'conservatives' have in common is their knee-jerk revulsion at the suggestion of a federal GST or VAT. The fact that Grover Norquist is implacably opposed to a federal GST or VAT should be a hint to those in the USA who think of themselves as liberal and who oppose this tax.
So-called 'liberals' and so-called 'conservatives' alike need a better grasp of economics and the inevitable interplay between economics, poverty and crime.
If cigarettes are taxed more cheaply at a given time and place in market A than they are in Market B, then there is an economic incentive to buy low-taxed goods in Market A and resell them in Market B. This is an inevitable consequence of having local taxing regimes for easily transported, high value goods such as tobacco.
The fix for such incentives is to get rid of all local sales taxes, at least on goods, and instead to have a single, federal VAT or GST on all goods – and, ideally, on all services. If 10% nationwide, the revenue raised would be sufficient to pay for a proper US national health service.
If the federal rate were round about 20%, as it is in much of the EU, then all of the USA's fiscal problems could be solved. But the one and only thing that so-called US 'liberals' and 'conservatives' have in common is their knee-jerk revulsion at the suggestion of a federal GST or VAT. The fact that Grover Norquist is implacably opposed to a federal GST or VAT should be a hint to those in the USA who think of themselves as liberal and who oppose this tax.
4
None of that justifies assassinating an unarmed American citizen. Period.
3
Deer hunters follow established deer trails to help them to 'bag their limit." Cops hunt for easy arrests/convictions/incarcerations/grist for the prison industrial complex in much the same way. There's money to be made, for the privileged few hunters and their overlords, by maintaining those paths to crime created by all sorts of social and economic conditions. Recall the "hunting" on the Jersey Turnpike, i.e., a prime supply of small game to feed state and city coffers. In many ways, the criminal is a victim.
The death of Erica Garner is nothing to the powers that be. How can everyone not know this? After all in this great country of freedom our police and our town and city halls have banned all photography w/out notice w/out explanation because the real explanation is that they have to hide because they have become the real criminals in our society.
As a group cops constitute the very worst in our society, with the highest rates of spousal abuse, drug addiction, alcoholism, and divorce. If this were a group of anyone else they would be the constant target of police. But we know because every single one of our politicians make money for their retirement off of jail and prison terms they are given a free pass over our laws.
I'm afraid racism and fear reign supreme in the USA
As a group cops constitute the very worst in our society, with the highest rates of spousal abuse, drug addiction, alcoholism, and divorce. If this were a group of anyone else they would be the constant target of police. But we know because every single one of our politicians make money for their retirement off of jail and prison terms they are given a free pass over our laws.
I'm afraid racism and fear reign supreme in the USA
20
Sir, there is legitimate treatment for raging paranoia. Get some.
Erica? That's probably another story.
1
UNANSWERED KEY QUESTION: WAS THIS A FALSE ARREST? Police said they were arresting Garner for selling cigarets, presumably untaxed and thus illegal. But to my knowledge, the police have never identified anyone who bought such cigarets from Garner that day or who was solicited by him. To my knowledge, the police also have not publicly produced any untaxed cigaret confiscated from Garner or from any supposed customer. So what was the crime, where is the evidence? One internet source said the police found three and a half packs on Garner, but it was unclear if they were taxed - and even if they weren't taxed, the quantity was supposedly within the legal limit allowed for possession. The point of all this: Was this a false arrest from the get-go, and a valid reason for Garner to object. Further, other reports say that the district attorney dismissed a number of Garner's prior arrests for selling untaxed - raising the possibility of prior dubious arrests and lending credibility to Garner's claim of being harassed.
43
Eric Garner died because he was choke-held which aggravated his heart condition to the point where he had a heart attack. That the NYC police union head said that Garner wasn't put in a choke hold was like George Bush and Cheney telling us water boarding wasn't torture.
35
The death of Eric Garner is a tragic combination of mistakes made by everyone involved the police, EMT’s, and Garner himself, but the ultimate reason for Garners death wasn’t racism or brutal cops but a society that gave him few choices. The Right will say he resisted arrest and shouldn’t have been breaking the law in the first place while the left will go on about the racism and the confirmation biases of white police officers toward black suspects. This stalemate is as far as emotionalism and conversations about race will ever get us.
We can make concrete criminal justice reforms, body cameras and Force Review Boards to start followed by clear guidelines backed up by sanctions for cops who use force too often. However, these reforms will not eliminate all unjust killings by police. The only thing that would have insured a long and happy life for Eric Garner is if he didn’t have to sell illegal cigarettes on the street.
Poverty killed Eric Garner and an economy that gave him few real opportunities beyond selling illegal cigarettes to make a few extra bucks. As long as people born into poverty have few ways to escape and need to sell bootleg cigarettes or worse drugs or themselves to survive and as long as this country is unwilling to make any kind of serious effort to end poverty than tragedies like the killing of Eric Garner will keep happening.
We can make concrete criminal justice reforms, body cameras and Force Review Boards to start followed by clear guidelines backed up by sanctions for cops who use force too often. However, these reforms will not eliminate all unjust killings by police. The only thing that would have insured a long and happy life for Eric Garner is if he didn’t have to sell illegal cigarettes on the street.
Poverty killed Eric Garner and an economy that gave him few real opportunities beyond selling illegal cigarettes to make a few extra bucks. As long as people born into poverty have few ways to escape and need to sell bootleg cigarettes or worse drugs or themselves to survive and as long as this country is unwilling to make any kind of serious effort to end poverty than tragedies like the killing of Eric Garner will keep happening.
90
The real question is why are police officers harassing a man, allegedly, selling cigarettes when drug dealers, and gangs are destroying whole sections of our city?
Well, you make a good point about the desperation of those who are beset by poverty, but it seems difficult to make that charge about a man who appears to have had at least a luxurious supply of food, even to the gluttonous level. Poverty is as poverty does. I grew up in white poverty, but I remember my father saying time and time again that being poor does not mean that you have to act like it. Then he would require us to cut the hanging threads on our worn jeans so that we would not look slovenly when we went to school despite our poverty.
As far as it goes, your analysis is correct, but Eric Garner was murdered by a NYC cop, and that's the inescapable truth.
People's respect for the Police and even more so for the Prosecutors are and should be very badly eroded by the cases like this. The action of the SI Prosecutor and the grand jury are shameful to NYC.
The comments of the landlord who is now afraid to complain to the Police are especially sad.
The situation is dangerous and the need for reform is great.
The comments of the landlord who is now afraid to complain to the Police are especially sad.
The situation is dangerous and the need for reform is great.
32
The fact that the landlord admits to calling the cops "...frequently in the months and years before Mr. Garner died." tells me that Mr. Garner and his group made no attempt to curb their actions. They had no respect for the police to do their job, a job that would not be necessary if Mr. Garner and his group would stop breaking the law.
And it IS disturbing to a community to have guys "dealing" cigarettes. You don't know what they might be doing as they seemingly accost every passerby. From a distance it looks like drug dealing or panhandling. The "harmless" selling individual cigarettes is perfect cover for selling anything that can be concealed in a cigarette wrapper.
The tacit justification for Mr. Garner to continue breaking the law to support his family is shameful.
And it IS disturbing to a community to have guys "dealing" cigarettes. You don't know what they might be doing as they seemingly accost every passerby. From a distance it looks like drug dealing or panhandling. The "harmless" selling individual cigarettes is perfect cover for selling anything that can be concealed in a cigarette wrapper.
The tacit justification for Mr. Garner to continue breaking the law to support his family is shameful.
1
The Prosecutor's and DA's reaction is shameful.
It is discusting that the DA, Donovan was elected now to Congress to follow the shameful Congressman Grimm.
But this is the majority of Staten Island, where most cops live on the "white side" of the South Shore, almost mirroring this divided country...
It is discusting that the DA, Donovan was elected now to Congress to follow the shameful Congressman Grimm.
But this is the majority of Staten Island, where most cops live on the "white side" of the South Shore, almost mirroring this divided country...
29
One of the central problems that led to Eric Garner's death is the broken windows theory, a theory that has not stood up to empirical evidence at all
Bratton, among others, claims that the crime rate going down in NYC is proof that this works, but the crime rate all over the country has gone down over the same time period and many places never instituted the theory.
Second, which would be more efficient if broken windows DID lead to higher crime: stopping and frisking hundreds of thousands of people, and arresting thousands, as well as the deaths of Eric Garner, Kalief Browder and so many others, with the attendant cost in police, prosecutorial, judicial and correctional officer time, or literally fixing the windows?
Bratton, among others, claims that the crime rate going down in NYC is proof that this works, but the crime rate all over the country has gone down over the same time period and many places never instituted the theory.
Second, which would be more efficient if broken windows DID lead to higher crime: stopping and frisking hundreds of thousands of people, and arresting thousands, as well as the deaths of Eric Garner, Kalief Browder and so many others, with the attendant cost in police, prosecutorial, judicial and correctional officer time, or literally fixing the windows?
13
Imagine if all the monies spent frisking, arresting and harassing where used to build and fund our public schools and universities. Why are our priorities so twisted? Why do we have more incarcerated citizens than any other country in the world. Currently standing at 3.2 million incarcerated citizens. #shameful
1
There is only one fact that matters in this case. The video recording was taken many feet away from the incident. Mr. Garner can be clearly heard to say "I can't breathe." The officers were right on top of him. If the camera mike could pick up the words, then the officers ears could pick them up too.
I don't care what the situation is, what the crime is, how many or how few officers, when someone in the process of being restrained says "I can't breathe", that means he is dying. Loss of air is a critical life threatening condition. Factor in the size of and poor health of the person and the situation becomes hypercritical. But even that doesn't matter. The man said he couldn't breathe. At that moment, they should have rolled off of him, if only for a few seconds, to assess the situation.
The conclusions drawn could be:
1) They heard the words and didn't care. This is depraved indifference or negligent homicide.
2) They heard the words and didn't grasp their meaning. In that case they are too stupid to wear the badge.
3) They were so pumped up on adrenaline that they could not control themselves and went into a gang attack mode. In that case they don't possess the composure and confidence to wear the badge.
It take a very special person to do police work. Exercising good judgement during intense physical encounters is very difficult to do. Much easier if the guy at the bottom of the pile is treated as human being and not a thing.
I don't care what the situation is, what the crime is, how many or how few officers, when someone in the process of being restrained says "I can't breathe", that means he is dying. Loss of air is a critical life threatening condition. Factor in the size of and poor health of the person and the situation becomes hypercritical. But even that doesn't matter. The man said he couldn't breathe. At that moment, they should have rolled off of him, if only for a few seconds, to assess the situation.
The conclusions drawn could be:
1) They heard the words and didn't care. This is depraved indifference or negligent homicide.
2) They heard the words and didn't grasp their meaning. In that case they are too stupid to wear the badge.
3) They were so pumped up on adrenaline that they could not control themselves and went into a gang attack mode. In that case they don't possess the composure and confidence to wear the badge.
It take a very special person to do police work. Exercising good judgement during intense physical encounters is very difficult to do. Much easier if the guy at the bottom of the pile is treated as human being and not a thing.
119
I agree 1000%, Bruce. You hit the nail on the head.
10
It's not uncommon for a suspect, while being arrested, to say something like "I can't breathe" or "You're hurting me" to fake it, particularly when they resisting arrest like Garner was.
We call this Monday morning quarterbacking, dude, where you get to create both the facts, the outcome and the causes for yourself. Man, I am glad you are not a cop!
The first official police report on his death failed to note the key detail that vaulted the fatal arrest into the national consciousness: that a police officer had wrapped his arm around Mr. Garner’s neck.
44
I think you are desperately trying to wrap your own arm around America's neck so it will lose consciousness. Good luck.
3
The one thing that all these tragic deaths have in common is someone breaking the law, and not cooperating with arresting officers. Why is this fact constantly ignored? Because the story sells, especially when you have a carefully edited video to elicit an emotional response. Cops are people too, and have a tough job. Eric Garner knew he was in the wrong and resisted arrest. All bets are off at that point. Bad things are bound to happen. They are just as likely to happen to the cops, and they still have to do their job.
31
One cannot be arrested except under a warrant or probable cause. Even then, the arrestee is entitled to resist excessive force in the arrest - not the arrest itself - but excessive force used to effect the arrest.
Mr. Garner was choked to death during his arrest for illegal tobacco sales.
If ever there were a case in which excessive force was used incident to an arrest, this would be it.
Mr. Garner was choked to death during his arrest for illegal tobacco sales.
If ever there were a case in which excessive force was used incident to an arrest, this would be it.
7
Civilized countries do not impose the death penalty for failure to obey the order for a police officer -- at least not without a trial.
12
Because the police are supposed to be trained to deal with criminals...if everybody did as instructed immediately we wouldn't need a police force. And not doing as ordered by police is not a reason to be killed. Please explain how shooting into a car of unarmed people, of any color, is justifiable.
10
Aside from the outcome, of course, a big problem that I have with this incident has to do with why the cops stopped this guy in the first place. They say he was selling untaxed cigarettes. What does that mean? How do the cops know that what he was selling was untaxed. If Garner went into a store and legitimately bought cigarettes those cigarettes are taxed. So let's say he paid about $12-15 for a pack of cigarettes and he was reselling them for a buck or a buck-and-a-half apiece. What's the big deal? What's wrong with that? Do the cops go into every deli or supermarket or chain pharmacy to check if the cigarettes sold there have been taxed? Why were they picking on this guy?
35
Just ask Lois Lerner , she could tell you.
1
What is wrong with that? Go back to the Boston Tea Party. In any event - as to whether those businesses are doing so - well they are checked. However - that is not the jurisdiction of the NYPD. That's for the ATF and IRS. Stop confusing issues.
Why do you blame Lois Lerner for what those cops did?
1
If this tortuous piece sheds any new perspective on Eric Garner's death, it is that of the evasive, defensive attitude of the cops, the prosecutor, and the layers of legal cover for cops that turn criminal.
There is nothing among the facts that have been made public that justifies the spontaneous attack on Eric Garner. WHY did Pantaleo decide to pounce??? The fact that the grand jury could not find that probably, just probably, a crime was committed by a dangerously aggressive cop contradicts, and ridicules, the idea of impartial justice.
The system in New York and just about everywhere in America gives cops too much power and too much legal protection. Laws and procedures are designed so that law enforcers cannot be considered lawbreakers. That enables cops to go to excess in their work, commit blatant crimes in the name of upholding the law, and get away with it.
The system in New York has to change before more people needlessly die at the hands of the police. Pantaleo must pay for his crime. May future lawsuits prevail.
There is nothing among the facts that have been made public that justifies the spontaneous attack on Eric Garner. WHY did Pantaleo decide to pounce??? The fact that the grand jury could not find that probably, just probably, a crime was committed by a dangerously aggressive cop contradicts, and ridicules, the idea of impartial justice.
The system in New York and just about everywhere in America gives cops too much power and too much legal protection. Laws and procedures are designed so that law enforcers cannot be considered lawbreakers. That enables cops to go to excess in their work, commit blatant crimes in the name of upholding the law, and get away with it.
The system in New York has to change before more people needlessly die at the hands of the police. Pantaleo must pay for his crime. May future lawsuits prevail.
45
Did the authors of this article speak with any policemen in preparing this article? If they had, they may have found that many policemen refer to that police move as a legal "take down" move, not an illegal "chokehold." In a take down, used to subdue unruly, noncompliant persons, the officer attempts to get behind and to the side of the person and place his arm over the shoulder and across the chest of the person and pulls him backward and down. The policemen I know, after looking at the Garner video repeatedly, say that is what the police officer was trying to do. But when Garner flailed and moved about, he moved the officer's arm to his neck area within 2-3 seconds. It's plausible. So why does the NYTimes continue to fuel the flames by resolutely using the word "chokehold" without any qualifiers or official definitions?
32
You either didn't read the article or failed to comprehend that its authors attempted to query the officers, to no avail. Meanwhile, you can try to use semantics to dance around the fact that there was a chokehold, despite the purely anecdotal "evidence" of your cop friends saying it wasn't.
14
What do you think of the medical response to the chokehold?
10
Mark, you missed the point. Of course the authors would try to contact the officers involved. I asked whether they had talked with any other knowledgeable police who could define the difference between a legal take-down move (one arm across the person's chest, the other arm under the person's arm) and an illegal chokehold (one arm around a person's neck). Intention has everything to do potential charges.
6
"The business of loose cigarettes is simple and longstanding. Drive to Pennsylvania or Delaware or a nearby Indian reservation. Return to heavily taxed New York City with cheaper boxes of cigarettes. Sell for a profit. Repeat."
This is exactly what High Frequency traders and other predators on Wall Street do every microsecond. it is called "Arbitrage". Yet the Wall Street predators are encouraged and considered the Noblemen of our society-- while the underclass is arrested, harassed and even killed.
Pathetic that we as a society don't recognize these sorts of contradictions.
This is exactly what High Frequency traders and other predators on Wall Street do every microsecond. it is called "Arbitrage". Yet the Wall Street predators are encouraged and considered the Noblemen of our society-- while the underclass is arrested, harassed and even killed.
Pathetic that we as a society don't recognize these sorts of contradictions.
185
Wrong - Wall St. produces more taxes for NYS than any other source. Shame on you and the people who recommended your comment. Sad false equivalency.
5
You make the point very clearly.
1
one is legal, the other is not....
3
Lets not forget that Mayor de Blasio took a 1-2 week vacation in the Mediterranean Sea, against the shrill advice from his staff. He also said he had a "constructive conversation" with the widowed Ms. Garner on the phone (like his hubris had cathartically removed her pain). And then there was the image in the NY Post: Eric Garner being buried on one page and on the other page, this image: http://ow.ly/OhsVb - After half a century as a New Yorker I have never seen a mayor so callous. Garner's case will come to haunt him in his re-election bid much more than he thinks. His opponents will be wise to re-hash it at that time.
6
Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in the United States for both men and women. Lung cancer is the most preventable form of cancer death in the world. One way it is prevented is by taxing cigarettes heavily, discouraging use. This anti-corporate public health campaign is undermined by the sale of contraband cigarettes. The police and emergency medical response in the Garner case was terrible, but please do not dismiss the sale of contraband cigarettes as a trivial, victimless crime.
16
I read a well-researched article in The Village Voice on untaxed cigarettes. They say the State of New York misses $1.2 BILLION dollars in revenue each year from taxes not paid on cigarettes. That's $1.2 BILLION more that New Yorkers have to come up with every year to make up that shortfall.
10
Really? Illicit cigarette sales justifies killing a suspect because of the link between nicotine and lung cancer? Do you not get this is the logic of your letter?
16
Mark, please re-read my comment.
It seems that the effort to reform how policing is done is seen by some as anti-police. No matter how this tragedy happened Eric Garner should not be dead. A real person lost his life not a statistic. A man with a family not a perpetrator. Eric Garner just like Michael Brown and Travon Martin will be look upon in the future as a turning point n the fight for justice. These events don't go away with the passage of time they pile up an haute society each time it happens. And believe me it will happen again because it was not handled properly in these cases.
21
Another "Gentle Giant". Where is the similar Ozzie and Harriet background reporting on the cops that were involved? It's of course assumed they were all KKK/Gestapo members.
The cops spent 2 minutes trying to reason with the guy to no avail.
If I have a green light to cross the street, and I cross without looking both ways beforehand, and I get hit and killed- I can die in piece knowing I was in the right. I look both ways beforehand because of the human factor involved.
And the common theme to all of these tragedies? Resisting arrest. You are dealing with human beings in the street, with all of the baggage that brings. To resist arrest- whether you are black, white, or purple- is one of the most foolish moves one can make. How many more incidents like this do we need to drive this point home?
The cops spent 2 minutes trying to reason with the guy to no avail.
If I have a green light to cross the street, and I cross without looking both ways beforehand, and I get hit and killed- I can die in piece knowing I was in the right. I look both ways beforehand because of the human factor involved.
And the common theme to all of these tragedies? Resisting arrest. You are dealing with human beings in the street, with all of the baggage that brings. To resist arrest- whether you are black, white, or purple- is one of the most foolish moves one can make. How many more incidents like this do we need to drive this point home?
28
If you watch the entire recordings Gardener wasn't selling smokes and the officer had no right to attempt to arrest him. Justice is all victims want. His death was ruled a homicide and no consequence for any of the officers or Emts:/.
16
No, the common theme is unnecessary force used on unarmed African-Americans being arrested whether on a complaint of being in a group selling cigarettes to a 14 year old child being body slammed leaving a swimming party.
11
Reading that Mr. Garner's grave still does not have a headstone because his mother cannot afford one was difficult to take. Eric Garner deserved a lot of things he will never have because of this tragedy, the least should be a proper burial. Is there any way the Times could set up a vetted link for people to donate so the family can at least have this small measure of relief?
32
You can do that. The NYTimes can't be perceived as advocating for any one side in news stories.
4
I am still baffled why 6 police officers were involved in this incident. Six, highly skilled professionals, were dispatched to resolve the problem of selling illegal cigarettes? Due to the matter of not being properly taxed by the State of New York?????????????
Combined New York State($4.35 per pack) and New York City ($1.50 per pack)= $5.85 in taxes on a pack of 20 cigarettes= .29 cents per cigarette. How much do NYPD officers make per hour? $40-$45. per hour maybe, and 6 officers were dispatched, = $250 to $300 of man power to recover maybe .29 cents in sales tax?????
It is the management of the NYPD that is mostly at fault here. At no time, in no way, is IT a prudent use of the tax payers money to address this alleged "criminal activity" of selling improperly taxed cigarettes by dispatching uniformed NYPD officers for this activity.
Absolutely brain dead management allocation of scarce resources eventually resulted in Mr. Garner's death. The NYPD Police commissioner, and the local District Police Chiefs need a profound wake up call.
FIGHT REAL CRIME, DO NOT WASTE VALUABLE MANPOWER RESOURCES ON CIVIL VIOLATIONS!!!
Combined New York State($4.35 per pack) and New York City ($1.50 per pack)= $5.85 in taxes on a pack of 20 cigarettes= .29 cents per cigarette. How much do NYPD officers make per hour? $40-$45. per hour maybe, and 6 officers were dispatched, = $250 to $300 of man power to recover maybe .29 cents in sales tax?????
It is the management of the NYPD that is mostly at fault here. At no time, in no way, is IT a prudent use of the tax payers money to address this alleged "criminal activity" of selling improperly taxed cigarettes by dispatching uniformed NYPD officers for this activity.
Absolutely brain dead management allocation of scarce resources eventually resulted in Mr. Garner's death. The NYPD Police commissioner, and the local District Police Chiefs need a profound wake up call.
FIGHT REAL CRIME, DO NOT WASTE VALUABLE MANPOWER RESOURCES ON CIVIL VIOLATIONS!!!
133
Everyone sees regular examples of police over reaction to both traffic stops and violent criminal acts. How often do you see two+ squad cars at a traffic stop? Or look at the SWAT guys in their costumes running around after a single criminal. Either there are too many police or they are not efficiently assigned if so many can converge on a single incident.
Overreaction by the police coupled with belligerence by the suspects will inevitable lead to confrontations like this article portrays. It is tragic but I would suggest one place to start is to comply with the cops directives. It might be wrong or without merit but they have the largest hammers. And they will use them. Right or wrong.
Overreaction by the police coupled with belligerence by the suspects will inevitable lead to confrontations like this article portrays. It is tragic but I would suggest one place to start is to comply with the cops directives. It might be wrong or without merit but they have the largest hammers. And they will use them. Right or wrong.
4
NY state loses a reported $1.2 BILLION each year in revenue from smuggled cigarettes that do not pay legal taxes. That's $1.2 billion that NY taxpayers have to make up from their own pockets. Puts a little bit different spin on it, doesn't it?
8
'Six, highly skilled professionals, were dispatched to resolve the problem of selling illegal cigarettes?'
Highly skilled?
The outcome indicates otherwise.
Ban all returned military bods from the various police forces, disarm the cops, or at least have every killer cop charged with murder, and let them convince a jury that it was justified.
A year to come to a decision? If a black man had killed a cop?
Highly skilled?
The outcome indicates otherwise.
Ban all returned military bods from the various police forces, disarm the cops, or at least have every killer cop charged with murder, and let them convince a jury that it was justified.
A year to come to a decision? If a black man had killed a cop?
5
NYC Mayor de Blasio was also quite gung ho to staunch the loss in revenue from those sales of untaxed cigarettes. He was about to announce a civil racketeering suit against an out-of-state supplier when Mr. Garner died.
The mayor quietly nixed the suit, not wanting to be associated with the crackdown on the sale of loosies, which came directly from the No. 3 person in the NYPD. Publicly, the mayor called Mr. Garner's sale of loosies a "minor offense."
The mayor quietly nixed the suit, not wanting to be associated with the crackdown on the sale of loosies, which came directly from the No. 3 person in the NYPD. Publicly, the mayor called Mr. Garner's sale of loosies a "minor offense."
12
Mr. Gjeshbitraj seems not to have been asking for a violent take-down when he called the police. My guess is he would have been happy if police had mediated a conversation between him and Eric Garner, as he apparently did not feel comfortable approaching Mr. Garner himself. But NYPD present themselves as enforcers not peacekeepers, so violence is what he got.
Commissioner Bratton is reported in this article to looking for ways to make outcomes "less punitive," but warnings and summonses come from the same place: the strong arm of the law. Police could play a constructive role in the community as mediators, facilitating communication between people who are alienated from each other because they don't know how to talk to one another.
Guns, bullets, and choke holds do not improve relations between people who have difficulty getting comfortable with each other and do not help them find ways to share public spaces and coexist. Police beat one party down when called and reinforce divisions.
Commissioner Bratton is reported in this article to looking for ways to make outcomes "less punitive," but warnings and summonses come from the same place: the strong arm of the law. Police could play a constructive role in the community as mediators, facilitating communication between people who are alienated from each other because they don't know how to talk to one another.
Guns, bullets, and choke holds do not improve relations between people who have difficulty getting comfortable with each other and do not help them find ways to share public spaces and coexist. Police beat one party down when called and reinforce divisions.
25
Well Garner had been warned by the police before. According to the article, it only encouraged hoim.
1
What is pretty clear from this gripping report is that the police lied in their initial report, and that the prosecutor colluded with police to minimize their responsibility in their reckless, fatal behaviour. Where's the mystery? The only mystery is that there were no repercussions for the men who jumped Garner and choked the life out of him. Violence covered up by cowardice. And for what?
111
To an honest storekeeper selling cigs at full price and collecting taxes, Garner was a threat.
To the State, it meant lost revenues.
I can't understand why Garner would expect that he be allowed to break the law, albeit one of revenue for the state and one that disincentivizes smoking, with impunity. Why would he think that he could tell the cops to go away? Because they had done so previously?
So, 'hands up, don't shoot' did not happen. And the narrative that the cops were too "quick on the trigger" with Garner didn't happen either.
Context is everything. I can see why the cops in Garner incident were not indicted.
To the State, it meant lost revenues.
I can't understand why Garner would expect that he be allowed to break the law, albeit one of revenue for the state and one that disincentivizes smoking, with impunity. Why would he think that he could tell the cops to go away? Because they had done so previously?
So, 'hands up, don't shoot' did not happen. And the narrative that the cops were too "quick on the trigger" with Garner didn't happen either.
Context is everything. I can see why the cops in Garner incident were not indicted.
24
Sonny Pitchumani:
Why would he think that he could tell the cops to go away?
*****
I'm always surprised by these resisting responses as well. Swatting away police officers is not something the average person does, nor is walking in the middle of the street and then disregarding an officer's command to move over to the side.
It's likely people who do these kinds of things cannot be reasoned with and will require some additional measures to comply, since allowing people to simply disregard police instructions is really not an option.
The problem is the response cannot be overly aggressive and endanger the person. In Mr. Garner's case there were protocols for dealing with obese suspects. He should have been on his side.
Why would he think that he could tell the cops to go away?
*****
I'm always surprised by these resisting responses as well. Swatting away police officers is not something the average person does, nor is walking in the middle of the street and then disregarding an officer's command to move over to the side.
It's likely people who do these kinds of things cannot be reasoned with and will require some additional measures to comply, since allowing people to simply disregard police instructions is really not an option.
The problem is the response cannot be overly aggressive and endanger the person. In Mr. Garner's case there were protocols for dealing with obese suspects. He should have been on his side.
6
Just think when told by overly aggressive police to comply or be arrested (smothered) for selling loosies. He lost his life for nothing but selling 1 dollar cigarette.
He broke a misdemeanor.
Context is everything.
He broke a misdemeanor.
Context is everything.
10
The story never mentioned that Mr. Garner was seen selling any cigarettes; he was arrested based on suspicion that he may have been selling cigarettes at some unknown time. A foolish way to justify an arrest that led to a homicide.
11
Not mentioned here, and it does matter, is that Mr. Garner had no "illegal" cigarettes on him. At the time of his murder he was doing nothing "illegal".
64
Not only did he have no cigarettes on him at the time of arrest. No one saw him selling cigarettes that day. No one heard that he was selling cigarettes that day. The only reason the police stopped him and wanted to frisk him is that he was with a group of men the police associated with misbehavior in general. There was no indication that they were committing any crime at the time. There was no indication he had exchanged any merchandise for money that day in the area. Witnesses said he had actually been a peacemaker in a fight between two other men earlier that day.
1
@ Margaret of NY -- Yes, we all wonder what facts have been left out, apart from the chokehold and lack of treatment by emts. Yet you can only focus on Eric's verbally resisting being steamrolled by hyper aggressive cops ....and suggest it is a mitigating factor.
I suppose in your view, selling cigarettes is indeed a capital crime...if you're black.
I suppose in your view, selling cigarettes is indeed a capital crime...if you're black.
14
You have a right and duty to resist an unlawful arrest.
4
He didn't just "verbally" resist arrest; he did so physically as well.
It seems as if there are much more pressing crimes for police to be investigating than someone selling cigarettes. There are also conflicting reports of what happened. If there were no civilians taking video of this incident, we'd never have known the truth. If a chokehold is not an approved tactic by the police department, then the officer who did that to Garner, should be convicted. The over reaction by too many pumped up police in too many cities in this country needs to be stopped. Maybe most of the police are not racist and brutal, but the evidence of recent events where Black men have been killed by police sure makes police departments look bad.
140
Nope. That is state and city revenue you are talking about and woe to anybody who comes between a New York legislature and their piece of the action.
Unless you buy a few legislators, anyway.
Unless you buy a few legislators, anyway.
Shameful...just shameful. If not criminal, in fact, like a racket where the police, emt, and prosecutor work to hide facts and avoid consequences, or even inquiry.
The police don't mention a chokehold? Hmmmm.
The emt group doesn't treat him. And doesn't mention the chokehold in their report. Hmmm.
And the prosecutor interferes with witness testimony about choke holds and the lack of a pulse? Hmmmm.
Even allowing grand juries to make those decisions means citizens who are loathe to challenge police in their daily lives are asked to sit in judgment...and are averse to aggreasively seeking facts.
And they owe it to Eric Gardner to make clear those facts at least as aggressively as the aggression of those who arrested him.
The police don't mention a chokehold? Hmmmm.
The emt group doesn't treat him. And doesn't mention the chokehold in their report. Hmmm.
And the prosecutor interferes with witness testimony about choke holds and the lack of a pulse? Hmmmm.
Even allowing grand juries to make those decisions means citizens who are loathe to challenge police in their daily lives are asked to sit in judgment...and are averse to aggreasively seeking facts.
And they owe it to Eric Gardner to make clear those facts at least as aggressively as the aggression of those who arrested him.
173
Grand juries are the tool of the Prosecutor. That they didn't ask questions isn't surprising. Whatever the Prosecutor wants the jury to believe is presented as "fact".
The epidemic of police killing is clear evidence that police are suffering from PTSD and until this is better understood these killings will continue.
7
Arrest those NYC cops for manslaughter.
14
I'm quite shocked to learn from this article that the Daily News "edited-out" the initial two minutes of Mr. Orta's video footage of the Eric Garner incident! How many times have we all seen the originally-aired version played on TV and now we learn almost a year later that there was more!?
This was rather important info for the public to have---I feel rather duped by what seems to me to be a deliberate decision by the Daily News to withhold this important background info from the public. The footage that was aired made it look like the cops hardly talked with Mr. Garner at all. Now it turns out there was more "verbal back-and forth" and that Mr. Garner twice refused to go with the cops when they tried to grab his arms and escort him away.
Since the authors of this article apparently now have access to the transcript of the full videotape, including the "deep-sixed" initial segment, could the NYT please publish it? I'm starting to wonder what else happened that we don't know about.
This was rather important info for the public to have---I feel rather duped by what seems to me to be a deliberate decision by the Daily News to withhold this important background info from the public. The footage that was aired made it look like the cops hardly talked with Mr. Garner at all. Now it turns out there was more "verbal back-and forth" and that Mr. Garner twice refused to go with the cops when they tried to grab his arms and escort him away.
Since the authors of this article apparently now have access to the transcript of the full videotape, including the "deep-sixed" initial segment, could the NYT please publish it? I'm starting to wonder what else happened that we don't know about.
52
This whole story is emotionally hard to read. No one should die for these sort of trivial violations of law.
Why cannot the tax laws be changed to remove the incentive of "duty arbitrage" between states? Why don't the government allow selling of "loosies" by the shops? If the heavy tax on cigarettes is supposedly a deterrent against smoking, I guess allowing sales of cigarettes in units less than a pack should also be allowed.
Why can't the law enforcement adopt some sort of a ticketing system on the lines of traffic tickets for this sort of low value trivial crimes instead of always seeking to arrest an individual?
Why cannot the tax laws be changed to remove the incentive of "duty arbitrage" between states? Why don't the government allow selling of "loosies" by the shops? If the heavy tax on cigarettes is supposedly a deterrent against smoking, I guess allowing sales of cigarettes in units less than a pack should also be allowed.
Why can't the law enforcement adopt some sort of a ticketing system on the lines of traffic tickets for this sort of low value trivial crimes instead of always seeking to arrest an individual?
147
In the 90s, I did prison time several times for civil disobedience—okay, the longest was only 31 hours—but my point is that the arresting officers should have instead issued a D.A.T. (desk appearance ticket) for the arrest of a nonviolent subject. Instead, it was common to put all arrestees through the system.
My point is that the system apparently has changed by now to allow people who are ticketed or arrested for minor infractions to be given D.A.Ts. My hope is that the system will eventually decriminalize the selling of "loosies"—sooner than later. How insane is it that someone had to die for a couple of loose cigarettes?
My point is that the system apparently has changed by now to allow people who are ticketed or arrested for minor infractions to be given D.A.Ts. My hope is that the system will eventually decriminalize the selling of "loosies"—sooner than later. How insane is it that someone had to die for a couple of loose cigarettes?
11
The tax laws are not the problem here, and neither is the fact that they were being enforced. The problem was the chokehold, the inadequate medical response and the police coverup. Why would you think that the solution is changing the law?
5
Allowing the sale of loosies would be an excellent idea, now that all cigarettes are sold from behind the counter. The original justification for the loosie ban was that allowing it would get kids hooked...but that dates to the era when there were few age restrictions on cigarette sales.
I left Staten Island in 2010, vowing not to return to NYC until the police state was gone. The behavior, and body language of the police were enough for me.
These were not the police I grew up with. This was an occupying army.
Many of my friends became policeman, all have retired.
I know NYC was traumatized from 9/11 and I know they have to protect all that money flowing into Manhattan, but come on guys, lighten up.
These were not the police I grew up with. This was an occupying army.
Many of my friends became policeman, all have retired.
I know NYC was traumatized from 9/11 and I know they have to protect all that money flowing into Manhattan, but come on guys, lighten up.
126
Lighten up? The police were responding to complaints from the community. Are you suggesting that the police ignore these complaints, or that when an individual refuses to comply they simply leave? As for a police state.... The city is significantly safer and in a better fiscal condition as a result of more effective policing. I remember the 80's in NY and I have no interest in seeing those days return
17
Are you implying Mr. Garner deserved to die?
7
yes
2
This article makes it clear that system failed Eric Garner in every respect, and so did the conservative Staten Island community in which he lived among police who residents there. The cruelest irony is that the District Attorney failed to get an indictment of the plainclothes police officer responsible for the chokehold death of Mr. Garner and he went on to get elected to congress. A crying shame.
31
Mary, the District Attorney chose to fail to get an indictment. As someone else quoted, a District Attorney can get an indictment on a ham sandwich if s/he chooses to do so.
3
The government, courts and prosecutors have no problem with police killing civilians at the highest rate (by far) in the civilized world. Why?
In part, because they fear the police will turn on them if one of their own is prosecuted. It also breeds allegiance by the police to government officials who want to maintain control of its citizenry. Fear is a powerful tool.
No other civilized country would tolerate the mass killing of civilians perpetrated by our police.
In part, because they fear the police will turn on them if one of their own is prosecuted. It also breeds allegiance by the police to government officials who want to maintain control of its citizenry. Fear is a powerful tool.
No other civilized country would tolerate the mass killing of civilians perpetrated by our police.
71
This was a tragedy that was compounded by indifference whether by the medical personnel, the grand jurors, the internal police investigators, the other officers. Why not believe a man when he says he can't breathe? Why not relay this information? If it were not for the videos, this would have disappeared. At least perhaps others will be saved in the future, and officers will think twice.
Selling individual cigarettes should not have resulted in this kind of reaction or tragedy.
Selling individual cigarettes should not have resulted in this kind of reaction or tragedy.
27
Eric Garner did not die from a chokehold.
According to news reports, the coroner's report and autopsy listed a chokehold as one of many possible causes and contributing factors to Mr. Garner's death, along with chest compression, lying in a prone position, heart disease, hypertension, asthma, diabetes and morbid obesity.
I watched the video, and I happen to know a bit about chokeholds.
There are two ways to kill a person with a chokehold. One is to compress the carotid artery, stopping the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain. To kill someone by this method the hold must be maintained until the person passes out, and then the hold must be maintained for several minutes thereafter. That was not the case with Garner. He was clearly conscious for the entire time the officer's arm was near his neck. And after the hold was released, he was awake and talking.
The other way is to compress the person's windpipe, preventing the flow of air and oxygen to their lungs. Here, also, the hold must be maintained until the person passes out, and then for several minutes thereafter. Or, alternatively, damaging the person's windpipe so severely that no air can pass, even after the hold is released. This clearly didn't happen to Garner because, again, after the hold was released, he was still able to speak, saying, "I can't breath." The mere fact that he could say that means that his windpipe was not obstructed. Also, the autopsy report said that there was no damage to his windpipe.
According to news reports, the coroner's report and autopsy listed a chokehold as one of many possible causes and contributing factors to Mr. Garner's death, along with chest compression, lying in a prone position, heart disease, hypertension, asthma, diabetes and morbid obesity.
I watched the video, and I happen to know a bit about chokeholds.
There are two ways to kill a person with a chokehold. One is to compress the carotid artery, stopping the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain. To kill someone by this method the hold must be maintained until the person passes out, and then the hold must be maintained for several minutes thereafter. That was not the case with Garner. He was clearly conscious for the entire time the officer's arm was near his neck. And after the hold was released, he was awake and talking.
The other way is to compress the person's windpipe, preventing the flow of air and oxygen to their lungs. Here, also, the hold must be maintained until the person passes out, and then for several minutes thereafter. Or, alternatively, damaging the person's windpipe so severely that no air can pass, even after the hold is released. This clearly didn't happen to Garner because, again, after the hold was released, he was still able to speak, saying, "I can't breath." The mere fact that he could say that means that his windpipe was not obstructed. Also, the autopsy report said that there was no damage to his windpipe.
18
Is this the same argument as guns don't kill people, bullets do? It's pretty clear he would be alive if not for the chokehold so not sure how this is a credible argument.
31
So let's say your autopsy from 2,000 miles away is accurate. Why did the officer look up at the other officer who told him to "let up" and then continue to hold his neck like that. Why did the Sergeant's calls to stop remain ignored? The police are hardened to ignore humanity and this death is the result. Bad judgement, illusions of grandeur, failure to heed other officer's warnings, malice, and neglect, are the cause of Mr. Garner's death, excuse me, murder.
55
In fact, he did not die at all.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
14
It would be hard, but I could survive a bad cop exercising bad judgment and killing a citizen out of neglect or willful malice.
What I can't stand is the prosecutor saying the cops was justified.
That affects my view of the rule of law itself. The police have a privilege to kill civilians, no matter how recklessly or even with malice; and to do so without fear of legal consequences.
The prosecutors are truly evil actors here; covering up for their "partner in law enforcement" at the expense of innocent lives.
What I can't stand is the prosecutor saying the cops was justified.
That affects my view of the rule of law itself. The police have a privilege to kill civilians, no matter how recklessly or even with malice; and to do so without fear of legal consequences.
The prosecutors are truly evil actors here; covering up for their "partner in law enforcement" at the expense of innocent lives.
257
A DA can get a ham sandwich indicted, or not. For Grand Jury hearings on deaths involving law enforcement, a separate Grand Jury system is needed with an special prosecutor called up who doesn't have to win the next election. Only then will the Grand Jury process work effectively when law enforcement deaths are in question.
24
Gardner was far from innocent. He was blatantly violating NY State law after having been previously warned to stop. When he continued his illegal activities he then resisted arrest which action lead to his death through a series of police and medical personnel actions and inaction s none of which amounted to a crime.
The family of Mr. Garner is in talks with the city about a financial settlement. “If we haven’t made progress with resolving it by the anniversary of his death, we will go forward with a lawsuit,” Jonathan Moore, their lawyer, said.
Let them sue; they will lose. this is not a case of negligence or violation of civil rights. It is a case of whether excessive force was used. Considering Garner's heft and resistance, it was not. Garner's obesity and medical issues also contributed to his demise and it was not an officer's responsibiilty to conduct a medical examination a law-breaker prior to putting him in custody.
Let them sue; they will lose. this is not a case of negligence or violation of civil rights. It is a case of whether excessive force was used. Considering Garner's heft and resistance, it was not. Garner's obesity and medical issues also contributed to his demise and it was not an officer's responsibiilty to conduct a medical examination a law-breaker prior to putting him in custody.
15
If the city thought it could win the city would let it go to trial. The mere fact the city is "in talks" means the city has a chance of losing.
13
There is a saying in torts: "You take your plaintiff as you find him." The city does not want that civil suit to go to a jury.
7
Where did you go to law school? The "saying" does not apply to liability of public servants in the course of duty.
1
Seems there was no probable cause for the arrest of Eric Garner on July 17, 2014. The officers approached Garner for suspicion of selling loose cigarettes merely for being present in the neighborhood. That it not enough evidence for to trigger the elements of probable cause for the crime of selling loose cigarettes. Mr. Garner had not been seen selling cigarettes on the day in question. The 311 online report was from March 2014 and the arrest was made in July 2014. Seems from the information written in the article that the police are liable for the death of Mr. Garner.
75
Not only was there no probable cause, in fact he had been separating two people fighting, but the police and emergency workers were all grossly negligent in the performance of their jobs, and the cop that put Garner in a choke hold broke the law. What happened to the prosecutors? Perhaps the people of New York should take up the same initiative that the people of Cleveland have done to indict the police who killed Tamir Rice, whether there is an explicit New York law providing for it or not.
20
how do you know there was no probable cause? were you there? just because this is a minor crime doesn't mean it's not a crime. this man died because he persistently broke the law and then resisted arrest. he also died because the officers and the EMT's did nothing to help him breathe again. this is the real crime- the lack of medical care after the fact.
1
Excellent article. Lots of "what ifs" surround this unfortunate event, which occurred at the intersection of tax policy, police policy, quality of life issues, health issues, politics and biases in multiple directions. Very sad. No winners but maybe, ultimately some lessons learned and...is it naive to hope?...some changes.
8
History is replete with moments that changed everything, often some incident that few understood until years later. I am certain the death of Eric Garner will haunt 21st century America because it shows in horrific color the clash of cultures, the police lost in a fog of self importance and Mr. Garner lost in his own fog of resentment victimization and economic desperation. I can't shake the suspicion that Mr. Garner was targeted by police as part of a campaign to humiliate Mayor de Blasio. Officer Pantaleo will never offer remorse or a spec of pity which says much. NYPD is not to be blamed in general but in specific situations. Patrick Lynch's incendiary language and relentless hatred for liberals and they mayor only make matters worse.
This terrible event is not going to fade away there's too much heat in it. Eventually it will be seen as catalyst for serious reform, not just for police but social programs dealing with poverty ignorance and joblessness.
This terrible event is not going to fade away there's too much heat in it. Eventually it will be seen as catalyst for serious reform, not just for police but social programs dealing with poverty ignorance and joblessness.
30
As comprehensive and intriguing as this reportage is, nothing mitigates the fact that it was classified as a homicide by the coroner, nor the simple fact that Pantaleo ignored the advice to "let up" and proceeded to kill Mr. Warner with no regard for his life—all recorded in a very clear video.
And there he sits, free of all charges. Are we wrong to wonder why he is not sitting in a jail cell instead?
And there he sits, free of all charges. Are we wrong to wonder why he is not sitting in a jail cell instead?
319
Oh! And There Sits Ramsey Orta, Man Who Filmed Eric Garner's Chokehold Death ...
2
We'll disagree on Officer Pantaleo's actions, but one thing is perfectly clear: This would not have happened if Mr. Garner had obeyed police instructions. Do what the cops tell you to do and the chances are above 99.9 percent you won't be hurt.
1
I believe it's "Garner," not "Warner."
Instead of the police entering into a cat and mouse game with such people, it seems to me that police - and social workers, etc. - who really care about "law & order" and helping people and families and the community could have approached Mr. Garner with some kind of job training offer. He obviously was not a Bad Guy - he was clearly very workable - he clearly cared about his family and the people in his neighborhood - and he displayed a real sense of decency that could have been enlarged into a good, workable occupation. So what a waste to keep arresting someone like that who feels he has few options but to sell illegal contraband when really he could have been trained to do something genuinely useful that would have paid him a better wage and given him and his family a better way of life. This is such a disaster as policy! So counter-productive - ultimately so destructive and STUPID - Very sad stuff here - So sorry that New York - (my beloved past home & City) - hasn't found a way out of this kind of self-destructive MESS. Really depressed about this... - and hope others are, too.
42
The police had been through this routine with Eric Garner before; yes, he sold untaxed loosies and yes, he created competition for the bodegas; but what came of any of their prior entanglements? So, the police went for what should have been another futile takedown, but ignored his pleas for help and allowed him to die. No one is safer or better off from this.
26
The article was both interesting and informative, what I found most interesting is that the City of New York would pass a law that for the want of something less then 63 cents a man lost his life. When the society becomes so crass that we are willing to take a life for non payment of taxes the society has degenerated to the point that I am not sure we can recover. I understand that NYC has a problem collecting taxes on Tobacco products but a better way needs to be found.
222
The punishment should fit the crime. The Staten Island police treated Eric Garner as if he were a serious threat to the neighborhood, as if he had committed a felony instead of a petty misdemeanor. Even after the unarmed, unthreatening Garner was subdued and handcuffed, they treated him with callous indifference. The actions of the sergeants at the scene are a reflection of the SI Police administration and upper echelons, not just the individual ones at the scene.
10
Does NYPD investigate the hordes of "higher class" citizens running carloads of cigarettes from other states and reservations? I'm sure many precincts have their "runners" that deliver these cheap smokes for the officers.
2
This brings up an interesting point. Willie Nelson, Wesley Snipes and recently, Melissa Gilbert have been in arrears for a lot more money than Mr. Garner represented. I don't think we will see any videos of FBI or IRS people with choke holds on any of them.
2
The law of unintended consequences - working double overtime in NYC:
1. an unreasonable high tax has led to illegal street trade in cigarettes.
2. two medical technicians who are being kept on non-patient duty even though they are probably now more sensitive than anyone to the need for critical care.
3. “broken window” policing has led to an unfortunate and unnecessary death.
1. an unreasonable high tax has led to illegal street trade in cigarettes.
2. two medical technicians who are being kept on non-patient duty even though they are probably now more sensitive than anyone to the need for critical care.
3. “broken window” policing has led to an unfortunate and unnecessary death.
80
There is not now or ever will be ANY excuse for this behavior. Police and medical personnel are NOT volunteers. They are paid professionals who are taught to clearly understand the responsibility they have for the lives entrusted into their care. If they are not able to bear this burden, they should remove themselves or be removed before they cause this to happen again. Screening into these areas perhaps needs to be more extensive.
1
Mr. Gjeshbitraj said in a recent interview that he no longer called the city or the police to complain about the conditions around his building, as he had frequently in the months and years before Mr. Garner died.
“The last time I called the cops, someone got choked to death,” he said. “Eric got killed because I called.”
The NYPD keeps telling people, if you see something, say something. But when they react as forcefully as they did with Mr. Garner, they are losing the confidence of the people. They cannot do their job without the people's trust. The NYPD created that condition. I hope they realize that and make the changes necessary.
“The last time I called the cops, someone got choked to death,” he said. “Eric got killed because I called.”
The NYPD keeps telling people, if you see something, say something. But when they react as forcefully as they did with Mr. Garner, they are losing the confidence of the people. They cannot do their job without the people's trust. The NYPD created that condition. I hope they realize that and make the changes necessary.
207
[[The NYPD keeps telling people, if you see something, say something. But when they react as forcefully as they did with Mr. Garner, they are losing the confidence of the people.]]
Once I called the cops because I couldn't tell if a homeless man was dead or alive. I explained my specific concern to the dispatcher and hung around at a distance until they showed up. Long story short, they treated him very rudely…kicked him awake and used aggressive language, ending up with "Come on, get out of here."
Once I called the cops because I couldn't tell if a homeless man was dead or alive. I explained my specific concern to the dispatcher and hung around at a distance until they showed up. Long story short, they treated him very rudely…kicked him awake and used aggressive language, ending up with "Come on, get out of here."
25
They hire psychos who like being feared and not trusted.
1
Well, no.
In the same way that pedophiles hide in plain sight in the clergy and as wrestling coaches, bullies and people who were bullied join the police department.
But police are not independent thinkers, they are rule followers.
The police in Ferguson may have been racists, but the more important point is that they were instructed to generate revenue through traffic stops.
The guy who killed Garner, it does't matter if he's racist or not. What matters is that his supervisors created the conditions for the fatal interaction.
The Baltimore cops who gave that guy the "rough ride," same thing. Everyone knew the "rough rides" were happening but management allowed them to continue.
The common thread is that police (like politicians, utility companies, banks, schools, etc) need more and better oversight.
In the same way that pedophiles hide in plain sight in the clergy and as wrestling coaches, bullies and people who were bullied join the police department.
But police are not independent thinkers, they are rule followers.
The police in Ferguson may have been racists, but the more important point is that they were instructed to generate revenue through traffic stops.
The guy who killed Garner, it does't matter if he's racist or not. What matters is that his supervisors created the conditions for the fatal interaction.
The Baltimore cops who gave that guy the "rough ride," same thing. Everyone knew the "rough rides" were happening but management allowed them to continue.
The common thread is that police (like politicians, utility companies, banks, schools, etc) need more and better oversight.
2
As upsetting as this account is (and it's very upsetting) I find myself most troubled by the descriptions of the actions of the prosecutors and the Staten Island district attorney's office.
Shame!
Shame!
211
The prosecutor Dan Donovan is a nice fellow, at 58 he is a first time father. Now he is also a new Congressman. But he is from Staten Island, home of the hardcore tough guys and many, many policeman.
In order to survive you must tow the line.
In order to survive you must tow the line.
1
Give me a break. So he's a nice guy? He acted immorally and unethically in his presentation to the Grand Jury - as we learn from this article. I don't care if he wouldn't kick a dog. He needed to do his job which is to "do justice." He failed and the failure was wilfull and malicious.
9
He towed the line alright, MJT, he towed it away from the proper behavior of a prosecutor who is supposed to represent justice. What he did was toe the line of complicity in the Blue Wall of Silence.
toe the line
to do what you are ordered or expected to do Not everyone was happy with the plan, but most of us toed the line.
Usage notes: sometimes used with a noun describing whose orders are being followed: They promised to toe the party line and vote with the leadership.
See also: line, toe
Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms Copyright © Cambridge University Press 2003. Reproduced with permission.
Full Definition of TOW
: to draw or pull along behind : haul
toe the line
to do what you are ordered or expected to do Not everyone was happy with the plan, but most of us toed the line.
Usage notes: sometimes used with a noun describing whose orders are being followed: They promised to toe the party line and vote with the leadership.
See also: line, toe
Cambridge Dictionary of American Idioms Copyright © Cambridge University Press 2003. Reproduced with permission.
Full Definition of TOW
: to draw or pull along behind : haul
4
In order to have a lawful society, we must all obey police when they direct us to follow their orders. None of these incidents would have ended in tragedy if citizens -- and our nation's leaders -- would simply honor police authority.
In this way, we put lawfulness first in our society. We also honor those who put their lives on the line for our safety. When we challenge the authority of police, and fail to follow their orders, we are challenging law and order itself. And we are becoming a lawless society.
In this way, we put lawfulness first in our society. We also honor those who put their lives on the line for our safety. When we challenge the authority of police, and fail to follow their orders, we are challenging law and order itself. And we are becoming a lawless society.
24
@Ted - Yes, this is the usual pro-cop response: if only Eric Garner (or whom ever) "obeyed" nothing would have gone wrong. Nonsense.
We don't live in police state where we all must "obey" police authority in every instance. And if cops want the "respect" of civilians, well, respect is earned, not an entitlement that comes with the uniform.
I've been cursed at by a police officer for simply asking if a parking spot is legal - and if that can happen to a middle-aged white man in a very white suburb, I can only imagine what happens when a cop interacts with a young person of color who is suspected of some "wrong-doing" - such as selling loosies on the street.
When cops follow their own rulebook - and the law - and tell the truth in their reports and to the courts, then then they will have the respect and cooperation they feel they are "owed" by possession of a badge.
We don't live in police state where we all must "obey" police authority in every instance. And if cops want the "respect" of civilians, well, respect is earned, not an entitlement that comes with the uniform.
I've been cursed at by a police officer for simply asking if a parking spot is legal - and if that can happen to a middle-aged white man in a very white suburb, I can only imagine what happens when a cop interacts with a young person of color who is suspected of some "wrong-doing" - such as selling loosies on the street.
When cops follow their own rulebook - and the law - and tell the truth in their reports and to the courts, then then they will have the respect and cooperation they feel they are "owed" by possession of a badge.
88
Pettiest of crimes, unarmed man, but he had it coming? I think not.
32
I can't speak to the American psyche regarding policing, but as a Canadian, I choose to respect the police, but that respect must be mutual. Police officers are tax-paid public servants hired to keep the peace, not bully civilians without consequence.
It is not fair, nor desirable, to live in a society where civilians must quietly submit to verbal or physical abuse by these highly-trained and well armed officers.
I can understand an aggressive response to armed robbery and other violent crimes, but selling loose cigarettes - and teenage pool parties - do not warrant the "Dirty Harry" approach.
It is not fair, nor desirable, to live in a society where civilians must quietly submit to verbal or physical abuse by these highly-trained and well armed officers.
I can understand an aggressive response to armed robbery and other violent crimes, but selling loose cigarettes - and teenage pool parties - do not warrant the "Dirty Harry" approach.
67
This is a superb piece of investigative journalism. It seems that the Blue Wall of Silence is of far greater importance than it is to ascertain the facts of this unhappy story. Eric Garner's behavior suggests, at worst, a nuisance misdemeanor. The New York City arresting officers, from Jump Street, feloniously set out to deceive their superiors in their initial and subsequent reports. Officer Pantaleo's chokehold was clearly visible on the original video, as were Mr. Garner's final desperate gasping words, "I can't breathe." Officer Pantaleo was close enough to Mr. Garner to have heard, understood, and responded to his panicked, suffering plea. That police on the scene suspected a ruse by the incapacitated Mr. Garner to escape from the situation is beyond credibility. The video accompanying this story shows many officers at the scene, standing around, waiting for somebody to something, rendering no aid, unconcerned with Mr. Garner's condition. Grand jury testimony may be secret and normally protected from disclosure, but in an incendiary, high profile case as this, the public needs to know the truth of what happened on that day. A man is dead, died in police custody, but as a criminal element is fond of saying, "we don't know nuttin' about nuttin'."
319
Instead of two macho cops deciding to assert their control over a 400 pound man by putting him on the ground come what may it would have made more sense to have sent in sufficient police to have made it clear that resistance would be futile and that he'd be leaving in a police vehicle - without killing him. What did they think choking and piling onto a 400 pound man would do other than keep him from breathing? The callousness and unconcern by all was shocking then and it more so now when presented in detail.
1
Garner caused his own death. Repeat criminal activity after multiple warnings and arrests, and seriously overweight. What did he expect? What did YOU expect?
1
Soxared040713 has hit essentially every nail on the head. What also needs to be said is the fact that Mr. Garner died 11 months ago under well established circumstances, but the results of the investigation still have not been released - a clear indication that city and state level politics are an obstruction.
No matter how many of these analytic news articles I read about the front lines of our race problems in America, I always come away unsatisfied. That it falls to the police to form these front lines is not surprising to me anymore, but what is surprising is that, no matter what approach the police take to cases like the ones the Eric Garners of America present to them, there never seems to be a Goldilocks solution, one that is neither too hot, nor too cold, but just right.
Should the police have just allowed Mr. Garner to continue selling "loosies" because this was his chosen occupation? What is sadder, an enormous, middle-aged, black man with 6 children who gets by on such dim financial activities, or the police who can't figure out how NOT to beat up on such unfortunate men? How you answer that question will almost certainly be an indication of your skin color, at least if you aren't that Spokane, WA NAACP lady activist leader, at any rate, or a flaming liberal like Mayor de Blasio and his progressive cheerleaders.
25
The flaw seems to have been in the manner they tried to arrest him.
They should have used uniformed cops instead of plainclothes. They should have explained that he had two options…leave or get arrested. And since a lieutenant put this whole thing in motion and it wasn't an emergency situation, they should have made sure a sergeant was on scene before making the arrest.
This was hyper-policing of a small incident, the cigarettes, followed by a collapse of policing of a major incident, the chokehold and death.
Basically, it was a failure of management.
They should have used uniformed cops instead of plainclothes. They should have explained that he had two options…leave or get arrested. And since a lieutenant put this whole thing in motion and it wasn't an emergency situation, they should have made sure a sergeant was on scene before making the arrest.
This was hyper-policing of a small incident, the cigarettes, followed by a collapse of policing of a major incident, the chokehold and death.
Basically, it was a failure of management.
9
Your last sentence speaks volumes about where you stand on this issue. I'm an upper-income "white guy" and my answer is that the lives, well being and self-esteem of black civilians is equally important to that of white police officers.
If there is to be more trust and co-operation between both sides, what we need from the police is more bridge building and less "Dirty Harry" style enforcement.
Selling "loosies" hardly warrants multiple police officers and a UFC-inspired beatdown.
If there is to be more trust and co-operation between both sides, what we need from the police is more bridge building and less "Dirty Harry" style enforcement.
Selling "loosies" hardly warrants multiple police officers and a UFC-inspired beatdown.
19
@third.coast on earth and Neil in Canada: you are both voting for letting the Eric Garners in America do mildly illegal things like sell cigarettes without a license, and without any regulations. This just moves the gray, ethical line over to what sort of activities should NOT be overlooked by the police. Is it okay if he sells small amounts of marijuana that way? What about prescription pills? What about gasoline in small containers? Is overlooking mildly illegal activities going to build more trust among lower-class black people, Neil? You probably know my answer to that question already. Exactly what sort of bridge building should black people be doing towards the police? Who is going to suggest these activities to them? Isn't that supposed to be done by parents when their children are still young? So, is this merely an education problem? Or a parenting problem? This is getting deep in a hurry. No easy answers.
7
Picture yourself with asthma, short of breath anyhow on some days, maybe many days, probably using nebulizers and inhalers, normally prescribed by doctors just to help you breathe.
Then picture yourself being choked, feeling like you are being choked to death, which you are, in addition to maybe experiencing your asthma, and picture yourself saying "I can't breathe" and you repeat saying it - like you really mean it - and you really can't breathe. Then picture yourself being choked so hard it probably feels like your eyes might pop out - thus "petechial hemorrhages" internal blood spatterings, occurring in your eyes, as you continue to get the last breaths choked right out of you.
Then picture this happening to yourself because you were selling loose cigarettes on the street.
Then picture nothing happening, no consequences to the people that did this to you.
There is something terribly wrong with this picture.
Then picture yourself being choked, feeling like you are being choked to death, which you are, in addition to maybe experiencing your asthma, and picture yourself saying "I can't breathe" and you repeat saying it - like you really mean it - and you really can't breathe. Then picture yourself being choked so hard it probably feels like your eyes might pop out - thus "petechial hemorrhages" internal blood spatterings, occurring in your eyes, as you continue to get the last breaths choked right out of you.
Then picture this happening to yourself because you were selling loose cigarettes on the street.
Then picture nothing happening, no consequences to the people that did this to you.
There is something terribly wrong with this picture.
277
This didn't happen as a result of selling loose cigs on the street. It's not that the police rolled up and consulted the handbook which says "grab the offender immediately and get him on the ground".
This was, probably, an overuse of force piled on top of, definitely, an offender resisting arrest. People seem to always ignore that this whole thing started to go south when the offender didn't comply with the arrest. That is the proximate cause for what followed.
This was, probably, an overuse of force piled on top of, definitely, an offender resisting arrest. People seem to always ignore that this whole thing started to go south when the offender didn't comply with the arrest. That is the proximate cause for what followed.
7
The thing wrong with this picture is that most only see what we want to see in it.
1
Then Picture Ramsey Orta, A Man Who Filmed Eric Garner's Chokehold Death ...Sits In JAIl ,
Then Picture The Prosecutor" Ol Donny Boy" Elevated To Congressman!" A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Tears!"
Then Picture The Prosecutor" Ol Donny Boy" Elevated To Congressman!" A Picture Is Worth A Thousand Tears!"
4
Medical attention should have been given faster... But in his health - there is no telling what the result have been. At the end of the day - in spite of political correctness - we are not allowed to resist arrest. If we feel we are being falsely arrested - we can file a complaint. That's how the justice system works. You are arrested - the prosecutor decides whether to file charges. You go before a judge. A grand jury decides if there is enough evidence for trial. If you go to trial - then you face a court jury... It is then decided guilty or not guilty. The system is not perfect - but we either abide by it or not. We can't arbitrarily decide when we want to.
Mr. Garner did not want to be arrested. It is incumbent upon police to use force. It shouldn't be a headlock - but would a taser been better? Had each officer grabbed at a limb and picked him up and slammed him been better? All of which would have been traumatic to him in his state of health. There is no "pleasant" way. If we feel we are confronted incorrectly - file a complaint. Resisting arrest is illegal.
As to those who say we shouldn't arrest people for selling cigarettes - well then no one should be arrested for tax evasion either then? Again - we can't pick and choose which laws we follow.
Mr. Garner did not want to be arrested. It is incumbent upon police to use force. It shouldn't be a headlock - but would a taser been better? Had each officer grabbed at a limb and picked him up and slammed him been better? All of which would have been traumatic to him in his state of health. There is no "pleasant" way. If we feel we are confronted incorrectly - file a complaint. Resisting arrest is illegal.
As to those who say we shouldn't arrest people for selling cigarettes - well then no one should be arrested for tax evasion either then? Again - we can't pick and choose which laws we follow.
29
Where does it say he resisted arrest?
8
The problem comes, of course, when we DO "pick and choose which laws we follow."
To my knowledge, none of the huge financial institutions have served a day in jail for the absolute fraud and tax evasion their CEOs and top managers perpetrated on the American - and worldwide - peoples of Earth.
Loose cigarettes, on the other hand... we're on top of that.
To my knowledge, none of the huge financial institutions have served a day in jail for the absolute fraud and tax evasion their CEOs and top managers perpetrated on the American - and worldwide - peoples of Earth.
Loose cigarettes, on the other hand... we're on top of that.
28
Yes, there's a prescribed course of actions that the law says we should follow if we think we are being falsely arrested: file a complaint, etc., etc. That's fine for rather middle-class or higher people, with reasonably good education, who have seldom or never had this sort of contact with police. But does this mean that the legal system is not set up to work for people outside this category, who are quite likely to do as Mr. Garner did, trying to defend themselves on the spot by physical struggle?
Is it not set up for people who may have health problems that would make physical struggles in this kind of situation more likely to be lethal? Is there no other way for police officers to act in this kind of situation?
And what kind of situation was it? Mr. Garner may have committed the crime of selling untaxed cigarettes before, but was he doing it on that occasion? Do we have a legal system in which a person can be apprehended with such force for things she/he might have done in the past, just because officers apparently think that person is a "bad egg"?
Yes, we can't pick and choose which laws we follow. Shouldn't we remind the leaders of Wall St. who do just that, and are never arrested for breaking laws, of this precept? It does seem that there is one law for the rich and another for the poor.
Is it not set up for people who may have health problems that would make physical struggles in this kind of situation more likely to be lethal? Is there no other way for police officers to act in this kind of situation?
And what kind of situation was it? Mr. Garner may have committed the crime of selling untaxed cigarettes before, but was he doing it on that occasion? Do we have a legal system in which a person can be apprehended with such force for things she/he might have done in the past, just because officers apparently think that person is a "bad egg"?
Yes, we can't pick and choose which laws we follow. Shouldn't we remind the leaders of Wall St. who do just that, and are never arrested for breaking laws, of this precept? It does seem that there is one law for the rich and another for the poor.
15