As Margaret Thatcher so famously and correctly said,
"Socialism, a.k.a. Democrats/Progressives, is great, until they run out of other people's money"
"Socialism, a.k.a. Democrats/Progressives, is great, until they run out of other people's money"
17
As a non-New Yorker I was not aware of this issue. Having read the editorial and the comments I am aghast. So it is now the opinion of the NYTimes editorial board that by not providing affordable (meaning low income) housing, Westchester county is racist. That is as ridiculous as suggesting the NBA is racist because it doesn't set aside a few places for ill-conditioned 62 year old white guys. Wealth does not simply equate to racism. It just means some people have more money. Ah, but that's the rub isn't it. If the government could just redistribute that wealth...........
33
This is about MONEY not race. It's not about black/brown/asian or white. The only color that counts is GREEN.
19
Whenever I see something in these pages about Westchester that doesn’t involve a gallery opening or a restaurant review, I look up expecting to see Halley’s Comet. Suddenly the board has an august and well-informed opinion about a place the paper only pretends to treat as a news beat?
If the board paid more consistent attention to Westchester, its members would recall that their darlings Andy Spano and Larry Schwartz fought this ruling just as hard as Astorino has. With his trademark dignity, Schwartz tagged the whole affair in print with an expletive.
I grew up in one of those “leafier” precincts of Westchester not realizing the rest of the world expected me to view the black, Hispanic, Jewish and immigrant friends all around me as anything but friends. Now, Eighth Avenue wants to fling lyrics from “Dixie” around the room? I restrain the urge to use an expletive of my own. How dare you? How dare you?
What’s really happening here is that the city-based limousine cadres look north and behold a place that isn’t as messed up as their own. It galls them. And it makes them salivate to find that they can use the courts and a false patina of social justice to knock the shine off someone else’s apple.
If the board paid more consistent attention to Westchester, its members would recall that their darlings Andy Spano and Larry Schwartz fought this ruling just as hard as Astorino has. With his trademark dignity, Schwartz tagged the whole affair in print with an expletive.
I grew up in one of those “leafier” precincts of Westchester not realizing the rest of the world expected me to view the black, Hispanic, Jewish and immigrant friends all around me as anything but friends. Now, Eighth Avenue wants to fling lyrics from “Dixie” around the room? I restrain the urge to use an expletive of my own. How dare you? How dare you?
What’s really happening here is that the city-based limousine cadres look north and behold a place that isn’t as messed up as their own. It galls them. And it makes them salivate to find that they can use the courts and a false patina of social justice to knock the shine off someone else’s apple.
32
How about we build some of this low income, affordable housing near the Clinton's 7000 square foot home??
19
My neighborhood was rural when I moved to it 36 years ago. In that time it has been annexed into the city of Charlotte though we are 11 miles from the city center.
Over the last 10 years old Charlotte neighborhoods particularly those that were primarily Black have become gentrified. Blacks whose families lived in these neighborhoods for generations were forced out by high taxes and city condemnations.
I am now surrounded by 3000 apartments filled with these people. The two banks an the next road have been robbed 5 times in two years as well as a few restaurants and fast food joints. The two supermarkets took out their self service checkouts due to shrinkage. The police have opened a substation a few blocks away and we see people walking around the neighborhood who do not live here during the day.
This was never an all White neighborhood. My next door neighbors were here a year before me. He is now armed and he and his wife have taken concealed carry classes. I added 2 pump shotguns to the house and three extra handguns so there is one nearby wherever we are in the house and yard.
Is this what HUD really wants for us?
Over the last 10 years old Charlotte neighborhoods particularly those that were primarily Black have become gentrified. Blacks whose families lived in these neighborhoods for generations were forced out by high taxes and city condemnations.
I am now surrounded by 3000 apartments filled with these people. The two banks an the next road have been robbed 5 times in two years as well as a few restaurants and fast food joints. The two supermarkets took out their self service checkouts due to shrinkage. The police have opened a substation a few blocks away and we see people walking around the neighborhood who do not live here during the day.
This was never an all White neighborhood. My next door neighbors were here a year before me. He is now armed and he and his wife have taken concealed carry classes. I added 2 pump shotguns to the house and three extra handguns so there is one nearby wherever we are in the house and yard.
Is this what HUD really wants for us?
21
Does "fair housing" mean "low income housing" or "race-based housing"? There are many blacks, Indians and other Asians who live in Westchester county.. Opposition to this is not racism - it's fear for safety, prevention of crime, property values. Would people deny Americans this? Or does our social engineering run roughshod over citizens' values? People are seeing the results of this in other cities and rightly saying "not here".
27
Westchester may have taken HUDs money but I'm pretty sure it was a Marlon Brando moment where they were given an offer they couldn't refuse without unleashing the Justice Department.
6
After reading many of theses comments I know why that low life Astorino won his reelection.
8
I live in New Castle and, sorry NYT, but you don't know what you're talking about. Chappaqua HAS approved affordable housing at another location, Chappaqua Crossing, a development that will also include market-rate condos and a Whole Foods.
So-called Chappaqua Station is a developer-driven monstrosity that would be built, literally, on the wrong side of the tracks, on land that was years ago declared unfit for residential housing and is now used for a garage and recycling center -and on which I would not walk my dogs. The NYS permits were refused because the planed development, located between the Saw Mill River and Metro North tracks, did not allow a road wide enough to accommodate fire fighting and other emergency vehicles. The housing is essentially a concrete ghetto that is near NO other residential units and would isolate those who lived there.
The developer has been banging his drum, claiming that the citizens of Chappaqua are racists. In fact, the citizens of Chappaqua have not only approved affordable housing at Chappaqua Crossing, the old Readers' Digest site (controversy about that project concerned the planned shopping center, which residents felt would increase traffic intolerably, not the affordable condos); but are also considering another site, close to residential housing and the town library, for such construction.
The developer is feeding disinformation to the NYT, and the editorial board should talk to town officials and residents before opining.
So-called Chappaqua Station is a developer-driven monstrosity that would be built, literally, on the wrong side of the tracks, on land that was years ago declared unfit for residential housing and is now used for a garage and recycling center -and on which I would not walk my dogs. The NYS permits were refused because the planed development, located between the Saw Mill River and Metro North tracks, did not allow a road wide enough to accommodate fire fighting and other emergency vehicles. The housing is essentially a concrete ghetto that is near NO other residential units and would isolate those who lived there.
The developer has been banging his drum, claiming that the citizens of Chappaqua are racists. In fact, the citizens of Chappaqua have not only approved affordable housing at Chappaqua Crossing, the old Readers' Digest site (controversy about that project concerned the planned shopping center, which residents felt would increase traffic intolerably, not the affordable condos); but are also considering another site, close to residential housing and the town library, for such construction.
The developer is feeding disinformation to the NYT, and the editorial board should talk to town officials and residents before opining.
48
Westchester is providing affordable housing. If the median income of some of the towns and villages of the county is about $100,000/yr, and affordable housing is meant for people making 50-60% of the median, then come on over. But be prepared to pay high commuting costs, get a car because there's not as much mass transit as in urban areas, and get ready for high property taxes.
7
The various local municipalities in Westchester are being punished for the sins of the Spano administration. The county has very little leverage over the local towns to force them to change their zoning. Irrespective of this many of the towns are cooperating but there is only so much that they can do because of the lack of infrastructure and the fact that the location of the reservoirs and wetlands prevent any building at a higher density. Westchester is no worse than many other counties around the country in fact we are better than many in terms of providing housing opportunities for minorities. Westchester's problem is that it tends to be unaffordable to many. If that is discrimination, it is simply Green discrimination.
9
In the 1980s, Yonkers went through the exact same process. The affordable housing order was fought tooth-and-nail until million of dollar of fines accumulated that would have bankrupted the City. The case went to the Supreme Court, which upheld the court order but eliminated the fines.
Over many years, Yonkers did build the affordable housing but the town is still "broken", with a north-south running border that divides the mixed-race, poorer "West" from the whiter "East" that finds an affinity with Bronxville, Scarsdale and the rest.
The politics in this town have never recovered from the hatreds borne of the 1980s. I have never seen such tribal and petty politics in all my life. The school system is shattered and the leadership of the town is paralyzed to do anything about it.
There are patches of Yonkers where one can live in a mixed-race, mixed income community and have a high quality of life. But if Westchester County keeps this battle up much longer, the entire region will inherit the tribalism and insularity of Yonkers, if it hasn't already.
Over many years, Yonkers did build the affordable housing but the town is still "broken", with a north-south running border that divides the mixed-race, poorer "West" from the whiter "East" that finds an affinity with Bronxville, Scarsdale and the rest.
The politics in this town have never recovered from the hatreds borne of the 1980s. I have never seen such tribal and petty politics in all my life. The school system is shattered and the leadership of the town is paralyzed to do anything about it.
There are patches of Yonkers where one can live in a mixed-race, mixed income community and have a high quality of life. But if Westchester County keeps this battle up much longer, the entire region will inherit the tribalism and insularity of Yonkers, if it hasn't already.
18
Dear US Govt and the NYT, in Westchester County at this point in time both of you are only interested in low income housing so please stop using the euphemism "fair housing". Anyone of any race can live in Westchester as well as Westport, Darian, Faitfield, New Cannon etc as long as they can afford the housing.This has nothing to do with race it has to do with the color green. It has to do with the Federal Government mis guided social engineering which will help destroy the fabric of this socity.
56
Hillary and Bill should turn over their mansion in Chappaqua to low income residents. She's all about helping the 99%, right? /snark
20
Their house isn't a mansion, and certainly not a McMansion. It's a lovely home and entirely appropriate for a former President, Senator, and Secretary of State.
13
As always, it's "he who has the gold makes the rules." If a city (or college, or individual) accepts money from the Feds, you have to follow the Feds' rules. Use your own money and with luck, you're free to spend it as you see fit.
10
From my experience in Westchester County, more affordable housing is needed for families who work there at wages far below the incomes of its typical commuting residents, and that housing cannot be subject to historically-established patterns of racial segregation. The Johnson report shows that affordable, open housing can be designed and built without destroying the “character” of the County. There is no excuse for delay.
31
Really? I suggest you check out what happened to Yonkers and New Rochelle between 1950 and 1980.
17
Go to, Syracuse.com tiny homes with a view. You will see what some caring people built in Ithaca, individual small homes to help unfortunate people. Then, go through the slides and see how one of the people lives and what he has done to his new home and furnishings.
I would be horrified to have this next door on a large vacant parcel. I would be horrified to have it even in the low income village in which I live. Most people here work and do their best with what they have. It's a mindset, and that can't be taught to adults.
I would be horrified to have this next door on a large vacant parcel. I would be horrified to have it even in the low income village in which I live. Most people here work and do their best with what they have. It's a mindset, and that can't be taught to adults.
8
Like forced busing (which ruined every urban school district across he country), the whole notion of mandating affordable housing in or near affluent areas seems spiteful--less about helping the poor and more about punishing the affluent.
As with forced busing, not only will the poor not benefit, they will be harmed.
Westchester took the money; make Westchester replace and upgrade current affordable housing stock in other places that already have transportation/medical/services infrastructure already in place.
Yes, this will allow Westchester to remain predominately white and affluent. So?
As with forced busing, not only will the poor not benefit, they will be harmed.
Westchester took the money; make Westchester replace and upgrade current affordable housing stock in other places that already have transportation/medical/services infrastructure already in place.
Yes, this will allow Westchester to remain predominately white and affluent. So?
15
"Westchester got into this mess because for years it took tens of millions in federal housing funds while falsely claiming it was meeting the conditions under which the money was given."
I know I live a long way from Westchester, but it seems to me that Westchester has only one of two choices to make. Build the housing, or pay back the money.
I hope that soon the court will begin to levy heavy fines against the county. Fines that equal the amount the county illegally accepted from the Federal government would be a good amount to begin with.
I know I live a long way from Westchester, but it seems to me that Westchester has only one of two choices to make. Build the housing, or pay back the money.
I hope that soon the court will begin to levy heavy fines against the county. Fines that equal the amount the county illegally accepted from the Federal government would be a good amount to begin with.
4
More attempts to justify depriving those who wish to choose how and where to live of the freedom to do so, in the name of liberal ideology, now dying here & in Europe for failing to acknowledge the intense power of tribalism in humans-a drive that, btw, was responsible for the success of the hunter-gatherers.
Chappaqua is near to where my late parents lived in Somers, NY, after they struggled into the middle-class after early post-WWII years in lower Manhattan housing projects. Within 5 years of their leaving for tiny apartments in the Pelham Parkway section of the Bronx, then slowly working their way up to modest homes in Westchester, those housing projects (the urban equivalent of "affordable housing") into which many returning veterans like my father had moved, had turned into the sinks of crime, despair, and trashed environments that became their hallmarks.
Yes, Chappaqua is a wealthy community with great schools. I fail to see why those who moved there after working their tails off to go through med school, law school, obtain MBAs, and who expected those efforts to bring them the right to choose a certain aesthetic, lifestyle, and tribal sensibility, should be chastised for it by the waggling moralistic fingers of the TIMES editorial board.
I repeat: this is why the right is on the rise here and in Europe. Tribalism is admirable & understandable if it's "ethnic"-African, Middle Eastern, Native American. White people have the same right to group together if they wish.
Chappaqua is near to where my late parents lived in Somers, NY, after they struggled into the middle-class after early post-WWII years in lower Manhattan housing projects. Within 5 years of their leaving for tiny apartments in the Pelham Parkway section of the Bronx, then slowly working their way up to modest homes in Westchester, those housing projects (the urban equivalent of "affordable housing") into which many returning veterans like my father had moved, had turned into the sinks of crime, despair, and trashed environments that became their hallmarks.
Yes, Chappaqua is a wealthy community with great schools. I fail to see why those who moved there after working their tails off to go through med school, law school, obtain MBAs, and who expected those efforts to bring them the right to choose a certain aesthetic, lifestyle, and tribal sensibility, should be chastised for it by the waggling moralistic fingers of the TIMES editorial board.
I repeat: this is why the right is on the rise here and in Europe. Tribalism is admirable & understandable if it's "ethnic"-African, Middle Eastern, Native American. White people have the same right to group together if they wish.
36
Yeah, we don't want to live with riff-raff! We think we're better than most people and want to prove it be separating ourselves from the rest of the country, which can go to hell for all we care. What wonderful citizens you folks are!
3
Exactly what Westchester needs: some cheap European neo-fascist ideology to go with its venerable, all-American white nationalism.
5
If Westchester didn't want to be held accountable, the county should not have accepted millions of dollars from the federal government. That being said, I personally think Westchester and Long Island are far more segregated and prejudice then the South.
7
Affordable housing in Chappaqua? How will the residents get to work, at $300/mo for the Metro-North? How will they manage the long commutes without a nanny to cover for them? This is a non-starter, unless you also subsidize monthly passes.
Per square foot, living in Westchester is far cheaper than New York City, but it has an expensive reputation because people expect to "live large" when they move to the burbs. Westchester has some smaller, higher-density housing (usually near rail stations). It could certainly use more -- especially in the southern parts of the County --- as a way to maintain affordability for the middle class. That is where affordable housing can and should be built.
Per square foot, living in Westchester is far cheaper than New York City, but it has an expensive reputation because people expect to "live large" when they move to the burbs. Westchester has some smaller, higher-density housing (usually near rail stations). It could certainly use more -- especially in the southern parts of the County --- as a way to maintain affordability for the middle class. That is where affordable housing can and should be built.
8
Racism is alive and well in one of the richest, most-educatied counties in the U.S. What hope is there for the rest of the country?
6
Either the readers who have commented have totally misunderstood the issue or the NYT has failed to provide sufficint information. Is HUD mandating that the affordable housing be given solely to non- whites? As one reader has pointed out, many white people need affordable housing. What were the conditions attached to the millions of dollars in federal funding that the county received? Without this basic information, it is impossible to understand the issue.
14
From what we are seeing here it seems to be that way. Charlotte's gentrification has forced Blacks out of the center city by tearing down all the old neighborhoods these people lived in for generations. Apartments are going up by the thousands in town but only for White professionals who work for the two banks, Wells Fargo and Bank of America. No one else could afford them. Downtown is filled with upscale bars and restaurants. The low income housing has been torn down and replaced with Condos. The only areas open were 10 or more miles out of town in what was once a rural area. The city rezoned all the open land for multifamily without asking the owners. I am surrounded with 3000 apartments. But I do have a brand new police substation.
5
Believe it or not George Romney (Mitt's dad) was the original champion of this type of program. He fought very hard to make all the federal support that municipalities were receiving conditional on desegregation. But counties like Westchester have been finding ways to take the money, but not the disenfranchised, for over 50 years. Here's an excellent report from This American Life and ProPublica, in the second act titled "The Missionary". Here's the link to the audio: http://bit.ly/1gaDeMI and here's the link to the transcript: http://bit.ly/1IaT7yQ
Here is an excerpt from the piece talking about George Romney's work in 1968:
"the US Department of Housing and Urban Development was giving billions of dollars in grants for sewers and highways, and to build housing in communities all across the country, and Romney decides that that is a good choke point. That if communities are going to be taking federal dollars, particularly federal housing dollars, they better be willing to open themselves up to people of different races, particularly African Americans at that time. But he also knows that this is not something that Nixon is going to be happy with."
Here is an excerpt from the piece talking about George Romney's work in 1968:
"the US Department of Housing and Urban Development was giving billions of dollars in grants for sewers and highways, and to build housing in communities all across the country, and Romney decides that that is a good choke point. That if communities are going to be taking federal dollars, particularly federal housing dollars, they better be willing to open themselves up to people of different races, particularly African Americans at that time. But he also knows that this is not something that Nixon is going to be happy with."
7
Taking the money and not using it as promised is one thing. But the writer (s) of this article don't seem to know Westchester very well. Take a tour. There is true diversity, more so than Manhattan, in Westchester as a whole. Are there exclusively wealthy neighborhoods? Of course. And like a true American I hope my grandchildren or great-grandchildren might be able to afford to live in one someday. Regardless of the color their skin may turn out to be. And their skin color or "diversity" won't be the deciding factor. Prioritizing education, working hard, and having the desire to join the ranks of upward mobility will get them there. And they may or may not expect the same from their neighbors and I wouldn't judge them either way. If they earn it, they deserve it.
11
The issue here is simple: Westchester took tens of millions of dollars in government housing money and failed to live up to the conditions of the grants. By refusing to build the affordable housing the money was for, they effectively stole the money from the poor people it was supposed to benefit. Now the court is telling them -- live up to the agreement or pay up.
I live in Westchester and grew up here as well. To those who think low-income housing brings crime -- drug use is rampant in the elite Westchester high schools, rape is all too frequent at the drinking parties affluent Westchester parents let their children hold, Westchester was and is the home of many affluent convicts -- Ivan Boesky, Martha Stewart to name just a few. Lucky for me, I live in one of Westchester's more diverse towns with many people of color and public housing and affordable housing. The crime statistics here are zero in virtually every category. It's too bad all the commenters here have decided to live their relatively privileged lives in fear and envy.
I live in Westchester and grew up here as well. To those who think low-income housing brings crime -- drug use is rampant in the elite Westchester high schools, rape is all too frequent at the drinking parties affluent Westchester parents let their children hold, Westchester was and is the home of many affluent convicts -- Ivan Boesky, Martha Stewart to name just a few. Lucky for me, I live in one of Westchester's more diverse towns with many people of color and public housing and affordable housing. The crime statistics here are zero in virtually every category. It's too bad all the commenters here have decided to live their relatively privileged lives in fear and envy.
8
The issue is that Westchester took tens of millions in federal housing money. They should return it and that should be the end of this issue.
No one, not rich, not middle class, wants to live near subsidized housing, as inevitably it leads to crime and violence.
Why that is best leave to philosophers.
No one, not rich, not middle class, wants to live near subsidized housing, as inevitably it leads to crime and violence.
Why that is best leave to philosophers.
14
Westchester was the bellweather for this. HUD is now making it an official policy to relocate low rent housing in the suburbs.
1
I cannot believe there is still such a push by the federal government to create low income housing projects. Their history is largely a failure both for the recipients and the neighborhoods where they are built. Most people looking to move to subsidized housing were raised on some kind of subsidy or in a project themselves. The government would do much better in creating jobs that lift people out of poverty and creating a stronger public education system.
42
Say what you will about places such as McKinney, Texas, it much much easier for a middle class black family to buy a house in white suburbian "leafy neighborhoods" in the South than in New York State.
It really does not make sense building "affordable" housing in say Scarsdale or Bronxville for low income minorities as the subsidies are too expensive, and the cultural and social divide is just too deep. I never understand why the feds don't instead promote affordable housing for middle to upper class minorities that have a combined income of say $80,000 to 90,000 and above (the professional class) to live in these incredible segregated upper class white neighborhood. Presently these folks live in NYC or in the segregated black middle class communities of Greenburgh, or Mt. Vernon. The black middle class does exist! it is shocking that there are NO integrated middle class neighborhoods in New York State. None. Zilch.
It would make more sense to integrate the different races of the middle and upper classes as they share more similar values and the social divide is not as sharp.
It really does not make sense building "affordable" housing in say Scarsdale or Bronxville for low income minorities as the subsidies are too expensive, and the cultural and social divide is just too deep. I never understand why the feds don't instead promote affordable housing for middle to upper class minorities that have a combined income of say $80,000 to 90,000 and above (the professional class) to live in these incredible segregated upper class white neighborhood. Presently these folks live in NYC or in the segregated black middle class communities of Greenburgh, or Mt. Vernon. The black middle class does exist! it is shocking that there are NO integrated middle class neighborhoods in New York State. None. Zilch.
It would make more sense to integrate the different races of the middle and upper classes as they share more similar values and the social divide is not as sharp.
4
Racial diversity is not the primary objection about affordable housing. A greater objection is the increase in population density and much more car traffic. It is an obvious fact that if people move to the suburbs they do so because it is greener, and less dense than the cities. If the suburbs are forced to become more dense, with higher car traffic, they will no longer be suburbs.
The real solution is not creating masses of cheap apartments, it is education, higher wages, and low interest mortgages so that more young people of all descriptions can buy homes anywhere, not be stuck in a cheap apartment they can only rent, while not acquiring any equity.
The real solution is not creating masses of cheap apartments, it is education, higher wages, and low interest mortgages so that more young people of all descriptions can buy homes anywhere, not be stuck in a cheap apartment they can only rent, while not acquiring any equity.
21
No, people move to the suburbs because they cannot afford NYC. People moving to Westchester villages and working in NYC add little to car traffic volumes. Higher density of suburbs, at least close to rail stations, is a fact of life in a continually expanding metropolitan region -- and it will have little effect on the "suburban" lifestyle of those living in large homes outside the villages. Education and higher wages won't magically create more land for large-lot single-family homes.
Putting aside the desire for any particular result of demographic change, the reality is there is no such thing as affordable housing in relation to existing housing in desirable areas. If you build something nice in an expensive area and sell it at an under market value price, you will create intense demand. Eventually the prices will rise and normalize as inevitable turnover comes. This has already happened around Westchester. How does it 'solve' the perceived 'problem' of lack of a diverse population? The government wants towns to build developments of inexpensive housing that only 'people of color' can live in. So, a town that is 'mostly white' will have a complex that can only be lived in by 'Black and Hispanic' people and that solves the cultural diversity problem? Who is going to build these developments? You need someone who is willing to offer housing for much less than it's worth and yet pay all the taxes and provide the necessary services. Only one organization is this stupid!
12
My understanding from other articles on the subject is that for all of the NYTimes's bluster, Westchester is on or close to schedule in building the 750 units. The Times' phrase -- "inching" toward -- the goal is misleading, without the actual numbers to back it up. I suspect the actual numbers don't support the Times' position. That said, the Time would want the county to enter into a lawsuit over the Chappaqua Station? That's the solution? So this editorial boils down to the county not suing a town? Come on....
NYTimes editors - you have such tangled logic around our most pressing social issues and try to inflate and inflect stories to fall into your primary social narratives, and the contortions are getting more and more obvious. Why aren't you pushing to integrate Park Avenue? It needs it way more than Westchester.
NYTimes editors - you have such tangled logic around our most pressing social issues and try to inflate and inflect stories to fall into your primary social narratives, and the contortions are getting more and more obvious. Why aren't you pushing to integrate Park Avenue? It needs it way more than Westchester.
25
There is a fundamental problem in Times Editorial and OpEd country at least as concerns any items that can include the word "race". That problem is the absence of any effort to approach the subject in terms of class using whatever SES data that may be available.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
17
I've scrolled down the various comments made, and the more I read, the more my heart sinks. Why must "affordable housing" be inextricably linked to "riffraff", crime, violence and litter? We've been fighting to add more affordable housing in an exclusive section of NW Connecticut, and along the way I've met many locals who would welcome and would qualify for such housing: carpenters, plumbers, teachers, healthcare workers, restaurant and local shop employees - wonderful, hard-working people all. The idea that just because you can't afford an expensive home, you can't be a good neighbor and an asset to your community is not only ludicrous, it's insulting to those who would benefit most.
136
Cindy: If someone has worked hard to afford an expensive home does that person truly want Section 8 housing next door? I don't think so. In the 80s there was a judge who forced Yonkers to build low-income housing. The result, white flight. Yonkers has not recovered since. Yet the judge lived in an expensive area where the only poor were the people working on his lawn.
12
Maybe because most people support the radical idea that one should be able to live where one chooses, with neighbors one chooses, without becoming a guinea pig in some failed government social engineering experiment?
21
Cindy, true. We have a beautiful affordable housing complex nearby and it serves exactly those people who are hard working but cannot afford a house or existing members of the community have a change of circumstances.
However, tenants can actually be evicted or have their lease not renewed. As much as tenants have all the same due process rights as regular renters, they do not enjoy any special protection.
Hard working, law abiding people who contribute to the community are welcome but accountability is essential especially when housing is unwritten by taxpayers.
However, tenants can actually be evicted or have their lease not renewed. As much as tenants have all the same due process rights as regular renters, they do not enjoy any special protection.
Hard working, law abiding people who contribute to the community are welcome but accountability is essential especially when housing is unwritten by taxpayers.
3
I encourage everyone to read the link kindly provided by the NYT editorial board to the NY Daily News article where Astorino asks the perfectly reasonable question "Westchester today, Maine and Vermont tomorrow?"
The NYDN link broadly and effectively lays out the objection to this bit of racist bureaucratic micromanaging being attempted by the Obama administration.
Don't listen to these ivory tower, limousine liberals running the NY Times. There is much more to this story that evidently doesn't fit their definition of being fit to print
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/hud-warped-war-westchester-county-div...
The NYDN link broadly and effectively lays out the objection to this bit of racist bureaucratic micromanaging being attempted by the Obama administration.
Don't listen to these ivory tower, limousine liberals running the NY Times. There is much more to this story that evidently doesn't fit their definition of being fit to print
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/hud-warped-war-westchester-county-div...
12
Limousine liberals, indeed - in the UK, the call them the "champagne socialists" and "metropolitan elites". Only those living in the epicenter of inequality, Manhattan, with salaries that buffer them from said inequality, would have the temerity to point to northern Westchester and cite a line from "Dixie".
It's why I won't subscribe and keep to my little quota of monthly free articles.
It's why I won't subscribe and keep to my little quota of monthly free articles.
Mr. Astorino ran his gubernatorial run on being the "honest" politician as compared to Mr. A. Cuomo.
Since then Mr. Silver, leading Democrat and State Assembly Leader arrested on corruption charges, Mr. Skelos, leading Republican and President of the NYS Senate arrested on corruption charges, heck even the ""Laundry Superintendent" of the Clinton Correctional Institution arrested on corruption charges and God only knows the count of NYS/NYC Gov't officials, politicians, police and other leaders all indicted, arrested or even convicted of corruption and other criminal offenses.
Where does it end? How does it end? Will it end or is this as good as it gets? When do the People and taxpayer of NYS/NYC finally say enough?
Campaign finance reform now, elect new "nobodies" to office with a vision and a dream and kick the powerful out including Mr. Astorino and his opposition, Mr. Cuomo.
They're all the same peas in a pod and one can easily smell the rot.
Since then Mr. Silver, leading Democrat and State Assembly Leader arrested on corruption charges, Mr. Skelos, leading Republican and President of the NYS Senate arrested on corruption charges, heck even the ""Laundry Superintendent" of the Clinton Correctional Institution arrested on corruption charges and God only knows the count of NYS/NYC Gov't officials, politicians, police and other leaders all indicted, arrested or even convicted of corruption and other criminal offenses.
Where does it end? How does it end? Will it end or is this as good as it gets? When do the People and taxpayer of NYS/NYC finally say enough?
Campaign finance reform now, elect new "nobodies" to office with a vision and a dream and kick the powerful out including Mr. Astorino and his opposition, Mr. Cuomo.
They're all the same peas in a pod and one can easily smell the rot.
Whatever happened to Edgar Bronfman Sr.'s 600 acre estate in Westchester County? Maybe the Federal government should buy it and turn it into a "fair housing" area.
5
So that much of Westchester County is leafy privilege, so what? The people of Westchester County have an urban area, it is called Yonkers, it is the fourth largest city in NY State. If the urban needy need more housing built it were they have easy access to Schools, shopping, transportation and easy access to NY City. This really is a cunard, Will the Federal Government now be busing the poor to the rich so they have easy access to maid and gardening jobs? Sure there is discrimination, you wouldn't want to have a trailer park in your back yard either.
12
Can you imagine the frustration and utter disconnect that would result if this plan went through?
Our government recognizes the ethnic and economic disparities in our nation, but rather than do something constructive -- better education, more jobs, raising the minimum wage -- it throws this population into a community where they cannot possibly integrate and where their chances of advancement are seriously curtailed.
Where do they find work? Commute into Manhattan every day? Or do they become maids and chauffeurs to the "privileged" class?
Doesn't anyone realize that this is not democracy? It is American-style Communism!
Our government recognizes the ethnic and economic disparities in our nation, but rather than do something constructive -- better education, more jobs, raising the minimum wage -- it throws this population into a community where they cannot possibly integrate and where their chances of advancement are seriously curtailed.
Where do they find work? Commute into Manhattan every day? Or do they become maids and chauffeurs to the "privileged" class?
Doesn't anyone realize that this is not democracy? It is American-style Communism!
20
As so often in North America, 'fair housing' means slum housing. Slum housing, wherever it is situated, is segregated housing. And slum housing also produces crime, and crime is crime regardless of the criminal's skin colour. That said, economic segregation on the US scale is itself a crime.
9
Awesome how someone across the pond can give such a detailed account of what life is like here in the States. Facts? Why bother when you have such a tasty narrative.
I wonder where John from London would get such a warped, and negative, view of what life is like here. I wonder what US publications are on his reading list?
I wonder where John from London would get such a warped, and negative, view of what life is like here. I wonder what US publications are on his reading list?
For those wondering what would happen if a black man were to try the open carry thing, there is John Crawford. You remember don't you? Unarmed, holding an air rifle, shot and killed in Walmart while on a cell phone. A crank call supposedly set events into motion and he was gunned down by supposedly trained police. I am sure that Joe (I'll Get Me Some Respect) Smith would handle it much better.
Open carry, especially with long guns, is only about intimidation and ego. It's a badge, a political statement.
Open carry, especially with long guns, is only about intimidation and ego. It's a badge, a political statement.
1
I live in one of the areas that is on this list, with the purpose of "integrating" the community and bringing in all folks, regardless of race. Let me say that this is THE MOST integrated community I have ever lived in, and I've lived a lot of places in this country. On my block alone, which is made up of folks with relatively modest incomes, there is a family from India, one from Southeast Asia, one from Montenegro, Ecuador, Texas and Liberia. We have Catholics, Jewish, Protestant, atheist and Muslim folks all co-existing without issue. Some old Italian American families, a few African American families, a gay couple, a few Irish; some with children and some retired. Some rent, some own, some rent from those who own. there is virtually no crime, because we have all worked our collective butts off to be here. I agree with the poster who said the only color here is green. No need for subsidized housing.
30
Then why did the county take tens of millions of dollars from the federal government to build it? If the county returns the money, its " problem" will be solved.
The top 1% and above have gamed the system greatly to their advantage as former Times columnist David Cay Johnston recently wrote about: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/6/the-top-001-percent-are-dif...
The real problem is how you create real jobs and economic opportunity for the unemployed and underemployed to fill the affordable housing with workers going out to do real and productive jobs on a daily basis? I have often wondered why we have such a housing problem in expensive towns with in the McMansion slums where only one or two people are living in houses that could house 10 people each, probably? How many Times readers would want to live in those pretentious houses?
The real problem is how you create real jobs and economic opportunity for the unemployed and underemployed to fill the affordable housing with workers going out to do real and productive jobs on a daily basis? I have often wondered why we have such a housing problem in expensive towns with in the McMansion slums where only one or two people are living in houses that could house 10 people each, probably? How many Times readers would want to live in those pretentious houses?
2
Is it possible for the Times to write a piece about Westchester that does not include the word "leafy"? Normally, leafy is paired with affluent, but this time with privilege. Someday if hope to see an article about the affluent/privileged TriBeCa or Upper West side.
17
There's lots of articles about the affluent/privileged TriBeCa and the UWS. But no one would describe either as "leafy".
Two points...
Ever heard of the tenth amendment? I must have missed when it was repealed.
As for Westchester taking government funds... I would venture to guess more money has gone from Westchester to the feds than from the feds to Westchester.
Ever heard of the tenth amendment? I must have missed when it was repealed.
As for Westchester taking government funds... I would venture to guess more money has gone from Westchester to the feds than from the feds to Westchester.
18
Your argument is specious. Westchester took Federal funds specifically for the purpose of building lower cost housing. This is basically a contract dispute. Westchester is in default. What is it about a contract that escapes you? Westchester needs to "perform!"
So you are explicitly defending fraud against the federal government. Got it.
Why do all the comments so far neglect the part about Westchester having taken tens of millions in federal housing money for years and then failing to live up to its side of that deal? I wonder where all that money went...
14
Tens of millions is a pittance compared to the drop in real estate values that residents will face. I suggest Westchester just pay back the money with interest and walk away from this manufactured problem.
3
If Westchester has "invisible whites-only signs" with less % non-Hispanic whites vs America as a whole, then why is Harlem, ChinaTown, Baltimore, Newark, etc all ok where those whites are non-existent at all?
Just do it both ways - if you want to build 750-apartment blocks in towns with expensive private homes (which will surely crash the value of those private homes) then put money into areas totally non-white and build new housing there to make them "diverse".
Oh wait, you've done that for decades and it failed every time.
Never mind.
Just do it both ways - if you want to build 750-apartment blocks in towns with expensive private homes (which will surely crash the value of those private homes) then put money into areas totally non-white and build new housing there to make them "diverse".
Oh wait, you've done that for decades and it failed every time.
Never mind.
15
Please --- because Harlem and other places mentioned are places no one wants to live. Racist housing practices will end when it ceases to be profitable. You are naive if you think all fields are level.
Return the money Westchester! It's now a sticking point to attack "white privilege ", even if your demographics are above national avg.
11
They didn't return the money when perhaps they had the chance. Or they could have no taken the money in the first place if they had no intention of actually doing what they said they would do with the money. Instead they made an agreement to build affordable housing. They reneged on that agreement too. Everyone arguing for the county needs to realize this is about honoring agreements and following the law. If I reneg on an agreement that netted me millions of dollars, I am subject to legal penalties. Most of the commenters here seem to think the laws should work different for rich people.
Westchester County is 45% non white. Why does the Editorial Board and so many readers immediately assume that expensive means white? This isn't about race, it never was. Its about maintaining open, green undeveloped spaces in an area that is commuting distance from one of the most crowded, over built, environmentally destructive cities in America.
37
Well Cities are more efficient than suburbs. A majority of my fellow New Yorkers use public transportation and live within limited space.
It's not the total makeup of the county that's in dispute. Mentioning the total makeup is an attempt to confuse the issue. The issue is where, historically, minorities were hearded into by zoning laws and redlining. It was systematically racist housing policy. Then WC took money to supposedly rectify the situation a little bit and did no such thing. Take your blinders off and read some local history.
1
I thought the court order was about affordable housing, not "maintaining open, green undeveloped spaces...," which seems to me to have nothing to do with housing. Did I miss something (I stand corrected, if I did)?
Why all of the convoluted arguments. Westchester County took the money. Now they have to build the housing.
18
That's the only really salient point here. Westchester should return the funds and tell HUD and the TIMES editorial board to take a hike and keep Westchester and places like Chappaqua however they wish.
1
This editorial board knows nothing about this particular site in New Castle. This site was deemed not habitual twice for market rate housing when it came before the New Castle Planning Board. The monitor himself found it not suitable for housing until the politicos "changed" his mind.
The developers consistently refused to consider other sites presented to them because this deal is a boondoggle. Why is it that these developers will not build smaller buildings ? BTW, it is not accurate to say the funding is not there. We are subsidizing it. The developers will be paying $1.00 for the land and will make millions for this tenement building and be guaranteed the rent for the life of the building.
That is the true story. HUD is a slush fund/cesspool. Do your homework ?
The developers consistently refused to consider other sites presented to them because this deal is a boondoggle. Why is it that these developers will not build smaller buildings ? BTW, it is not accurate to say the funding is not there. We are subsidizing it. The developers will be paying $1.00 for the land and will make millions for this tenement building and be guaranteed the rent for the life of the building.
That is the true story. HUD is a slush fund/cesspool. Do your homework ?
22
Please name the developers! A little sunshine please!
Are they donors to any specific politicians?
Are they donors to any specific politicians?
1
I am brown, liberal, and live in Westchester. I have never once felt discriminated against and had no problem buying a home here. Turns out if you can afford the down payment, the mortgage and the taxes, all you have to do is write the check. If you can't, it doesn't matter what color you are. That's the very definition of equal opportunity, but equal opportunity will never equate to equal access. The problems people are trying to fix by forced integration need to be fixed much further upstream so that the answer is not building cheap housing in affluent places, but rather providing people with the education and economic opportunity necessary to one day attain affluence.
117
The affordable housing situation has been thrust upon Westchester County by the federal government (which, by the way, never enforced it when the County Executive was their favored Democrat Andy Spano - he kept kicking it down the road).
I believe the people in the New Castle/Chappaqua are resistant to it mainly because of the perception of affordable housing being populated by low income "people of color". They may not say it outright, but I truly believe that's the main reason, and that says much about the character of those Chappaqua residents.
And with Governor Cuomo and the Clintons being nearby residents, they have much influence on the prevention of affordable housing in Chappaqua.
For many years, Mount Vernon has been the city of choice for what is called "affordable housing".
Why don't other towns and cities build their share of affordable housing? You'll never see such housing in wealthy, mostly white communities such as Bronxville, Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye Brook and Katonah.
I believe the people in the New Castle/Chappaqua are resistant to it mainly because of the perception of affordable housing being populated by low income "people of color". They may not say it outright, but I truly believe that's the main reason, and that says much about the character of those Chappaqua residents.
And with Governor Cuomo and the Clintons being nearby residents, they have much influence on the prevention of affordable housing in Chappaqua.
For many years, Mount Vernon has been the city of choice for what is called "affordable housing".
Why don't other towns and cities build their share of affordable housing? You'll never see such housing in wealthy, mostly white communities such as Bronxville, Scarsdale, Chappaqua, Rye Brook and Katonah.
2
65 affordable housing units were recently constructed in the North Salem. Driving past, you would think it was a luxury community. A 1BR apartment goes for something like $1,100 a month. So please get over the assumption that "affordable" housing means poor people will be living near you. More likely the valet who parks your Audi at the nice restaurant in Danbury.
2
It's really all about money. Like NYC - tho' not as extreme - in certain communities, if you have to ask the price , you can't afford it. Westchester is not a monolith, but the most expensive areas are reserved for those with high incomes: that closes the door on most minorities, and on many who are neither minority nor low income as well. In the last 10 years, income disparity has grown -that's a major issue.
This fair housing "stand-off" has been idiocy from the start, even pre-Astorino, wasting funds that could have gone to construct the housing, in a battle of political PR. The County took the money; there were strings attached. Even if the County had given the appearance of working on the promised housing, however slowly, it is unlikely that the Justice Department would have gotten involved. But earlier - and with Astorino - it has gone the opposite route - trying to turn this into a David and Goliath spectacle. Except this David is protecting property rights and refusing to honor a legal agreement, which was the upshot of the previous refusal to see the light.
BTW, I think that the editorial is limited in that it doesn't point out that some towns have pushed for affordable housing on their own, earning the wrath of developers. And others are mixed, in all ways.
Astorino boasts about keeping the County part of property tax low. It infuriates me that my taxes are being wasted on this, while important services have been cut to pay the legal fees. Just do it.
This fair housing "stand-off" has been idiocy from the start, even pre-Astorino, wasting funds that could have gone to construct the housing, in a battle of political PR. The County took the money; there were strings attached. Even if the County had given the appearance of working on the promised housing, however slowly, it is unlikely that the Justice Department would have gotten involved. But earlier - and with Astorino - it has gone the opposite route - trying to turn this into a David and Goliath spectacle. Except this David is protecting property rights and refusing to honor a legal agreement, which was the upshot of the previous refusal to see the light.
BTW, I think that the editorial is limited in that it doesn't point out that some towns have pushed for affordable housing on their own, earning the wrath of developers. And others are mixed, in all ways.
Astorino boasts about keeping the County part of property tax low. It infuriates me that my taxes are being wasted on this, while important services have been cut to pay the legal fees. Just do it.
3
"Fair" housing - fair to who? Certainly not the homeowners and property-tax payers who have busted their rears to live where they do and may see significant evaporation of housing value when the affordable housing projects are plopped down in their neighborhood. Will the Department of Housing & Urban Development compensate them in kind when a house that was worth $600,000 yesterday is suddenly $400,000 today? Not for some fancy mansion but a basic ranch. There is no "Whites Only" sign - plenty of ethnicities living all over Westchester. Unnecessary inflammatory language. This is why people who supported Democrats for decades become apathetic and don't vote or fully convert to the Republican Party.
13
There are almost one million people in Westchester County and Astorino is putting up a fight over 450 units of fairly-priced housing. He must be very scared, or just bought, to be so difficult.
I grew up in one of these towns in Westchester. In high school, there was a ton of drugs available. Girls were gang-raped and shamed for it. Kids stole and mocked their victims. Kids committed suicide; there were acts of depraved violence. The pressure placed on children was abominable. It was so traumatic for me that I refused to go to high school for my senior year (I went to college instead). Once I was out, I finally felt free and like I was a part of the real world which was so much more comfortable than living in a bubble.
I was lucky to have parents that truly supported me and understood that I couldn't handle that kind of social pressure. I am eternally grateful to them and can only go back because they're there. Otherwise I would never return to Westchester for a single day.
I grew up in one of these towns in Westchester. In high school, there was a ton of drugs available. Girls were gang-raped and shamed for it. Kids stole and mocked their victims. Kids committed suicide; there were acts of depraved violence. The pressure placed on children was abominable. It was so traumatic for me that I refused to go to high school for my senior year (I went to college instead). Once I was out, I finally felt free and like I was a part of the real world which was so much more comfortable than living in a bubble.
I was lucky to have parents that truly supported me and understood that I couldn't handle that kind of social pressure. I am eternally grateful to them and can only go back because they're there. Otherwise I would never return to Westchester for a single day.
11
Lord, thank you for this. I grew up in Westchester County also and got out at the age of 16, continually running away until I was granted emancipation as a minor. I hated everything about it, especially the school system. It was a degrading, snotty atmosphere, with drugs, hateful treatment of girls, everything that you stated. I left 40 years ago and never looked back.
1
Requiring towns in Westchester to rezone to allow affordable housing makes sense but ncentivising potential builders to do so is a stretch and is best left for the market to dictate what is built.
But painting this as a white issue blocking out minorities is ridiculous and both James Johnson and the NY Times know this.
Affordable housing would be open for ALL. Senior citizens on a fixed income, young singles or young couples just starting out, single mothers or fathers etc. Certainly minorities would have representation in these categories and others but this is an issue of providing affordable housing to ALL not just minorities.
The attempts by Mr Johnson and others to misinterpret and/or stretch the agreed upon settlement to encompass a political or personal agenda should be fought in order to hold the line as to the exact wording of the agreement. Not less and not more.
But painting this as a white issue blocking out minorities is ridiculous and both James Johnson and the NY Times know this.
Affordable housing would be open for ALL. Senior citizens on a fixed income, young singles or young couples just starting out, single mothers or fathers etc. Certainly minorities would have representation in these categories and others but this is an issue of providing affordable housing to ALL not just minorities.
The attempts by Mr Johnson and others to misinterpret and/or stretch the agreed upon settlement to encompass a political or personal agenda should be fought in order to hold the line as to the exact wording of the agreement. Not less and not more.
5
"...old times there are not forgotten"?
Alright, which one of you's been listening to "Dixie"?
It's ridiculous that a directive saying "you can't discriminate just because you want to" is called social-engineering. The country has already "engineered" racial inequality; trying to undo that will inevitably entail people mixing with those they presently can't stand. How are we going to make any progress toward building an enlightened, unprejudiced society if we never interact with people unlike ourselves? There was a lot of hostility to the Op-Ed this morning about children from different income-level families going to pre-K together. I mean, come on.
Mostly, lower-class culture isn't any worse than middle-class culture (nor do I find mild forms of paternalism completely indefensible), and I think it's rather stupid that so many professedly liberal individuals support programs designed to better the lives of the indigent, but raise hell when asked to socialize with, or even come into contact with, these very same people.
I partially agree with the David Brooks-esque line of thinking about the culture of the upper crust being, on the whole, superior. I'm sorry, but I do. And as everyone doesn't come from old money, in order for that culture to seep into the rest of society, there must be interaction. We can't keep building barricades. Our trust has evaporated. We despise one another; we scapegoat. Segregation perpetuates this -- it tears us further apart.
Alright, which one of you's been listening to "Dixie"?
It's ridiculous that a directive saying "you can't discriminate just because you want to" is called social-engineering. The country has already "engineered" racial inequality; trying to undo that will inevitably entail people mixing with those they presently can't stand. How are we going to make any progress toward building an enlightened, unprejudiced society if we never interact with people unlike ourselves? There was a lot of hostility to the Op-Ed this morning about children from different income-level families going to pre-K together. I mean, come on.
Mostly, lower-class culture isn't any worse than middle-class culture (nor do I find mild forms of paternalism completely indefensible), and I think it's rather stupid that so many professedly liberal individuals support programs designed to better the lives of the indigent, but raise hell when asked to socialize with, or even come into contact with, these very same people.
I partially agree with the David Brooks-esque line of thinking about the culture of the upper crust being, on the whole, superior. I'm sorry, but I do. And as everyone doesn't come from old money, in order for that culture to seep into the rest of society, there must be interaction. We can't keep building barricades. Our trust has evaporated. We despise one another; we scapegoat. Segregation perpetuates this -- it tears us further apart.
2
Yes, by all means, build massive public housing projects in Scarsdale, Bronxville, Chappaqua and other areas of white 'leafy privilege'. The more the merrier. Sonce the vast majority of those who live in these fortresses vote Democratic, let them enjoy the diversity and inclusiveness they and Obama are trying to shove down Americans throats, in classical totalitarian fashion. Then start on 5th Ave. and Central Park West. Why should Brownsville Section 8 welfare families not be granted their fair share of these gilded enclaves. Yes, let diversity ring loudly, especially next to greedy white Democrats.
10
Don't forget to take over expensive penthouses using eminent domain and let the poor live there under rent control.
1
Westchester County defrauded the federal government by taking millions of dollars and not doing what they said they would do with the money. You, along with the others trying desperately to comfort the comfortable seem to be defending fraud. How dare the government expect the county to do with our money what they said they would do in order to receive it? How dare we expect affordable housing with the money given to them for affordable housing. You folks are either criminals or you defend criminal actions.
Advocating the same misguided actions that Judge Sand imposed on Yonkers back in the 80s the Editorial Board doesn't seem to have learned that forcing social engineering down the throats of residents does not work. If if it was such a great idea back then why didn't Judge Sand's neighborhood build low-income housing as well? Oh I forgot, they have even more "onerous" zoning restrictions.
I suggest that Westchester residents pool money together and create a defense fund that will hire the best lawyers to fight the Government for the next 50 years.
I suggest that Westchester residents pool money together and create a defense fund that will hire the best lawyers to fight the Government for the next 50 years.
13
We started the country out with a rule for getting classes and races to mix in the elite suburbs: it is usually referred to as Capitalism.
Rather than corrupt bureaucrats taking payoffs to enforce or ignore this sort of rule - which will be inevitable - just promote employment. Then, the people who SHOULD be moving in there will be.
Besides, many observers see all plans to mix the classes in this way as simply allowing the go-getters among the drug ''retailers'' access to the moneyed areas previously unreachable to them. Considering the current president's background as a constant user of illegal drugs with the Choom Gang, one has to consider this angle.
Drug-use histories or grudges against achievers are no way to make changes in a settled country.
Rather than corrupt bureaucrats taking payoffs to enforce or ignore this sort of rule - which will be inevitable - just promote employment. Then, the people who SHOULD be moving in there will be.
Besides, many observers see all plans to mix the classes in this way as simply allowing the go-getters among the drug ''retailers'' access to the moneyed areas previously unreachable to them. Considering the current president's background as a constant user of illegal drugs with the Choom Gang, one has to consider this angle.
Drug-use histories or grudges against achievers are no way to make changes in a settled country.
1
I suppose those small towns and villages do not wish to welcome poverty, drugs and crime into their localities. Not to say that drugs and crime aren't home to those communities at present. The sort of drug and crime that is present in those small towns and villages is on a larger scale such as upper management of Latino and Asian drug traders that are given safe refuge right next to where law enforcement officials have their residences.
2
As a resident of west jester for many decades it is patently clear that racial justice is a concept that hasn't hit most parts of the county, such as Harrison, rye, mamaroneck, and larchmont. Primitive and recalcitrant as Westchester is on matters of racial justice, bob astorini stands out as a pig, a liar, and a fool on these matters. How embarrassing for a moderately sophisticated area like westchester to be governed by such a backward republican. The tea party's disgraceful stupidization of America proceeds apace.
Republicans have taken this county back to the the levels of Maddox and Wallace. Not a minute more moral and sophisticated than that. Westchester , now populated by the financial elite, is solely concerned with the well being of that elite and has become divorced from othe economic classes, other races, and indeed from the country. The new ancien regime is here.
Republicans have taken this county back to the the levels of Maddox and Wallace. Not a minute more moral and sophisticated than that. Westchester , now populated by the financial elite, is solely concerned with the well being of that elite and has become divorced from othe economic classes, other races, and indeed from the country. The new ancien regime is here.
5
Mr. Astorino is valiantly trying to keep his district from becoming crime and voilence ridden Baltimore. People who work and earn the right to buy or rent in a good neighborhood will most likely livthere peacefully. People who are brought in from urban ghettos and subsidized in order to live in a decent neighborhood have not earned the right to live there and they do not tend to live in peace, they tend to bring crime, violence, litter and unrest with them, infecting a healthy, safe neighborhood. Should a healthy person be injected with cancer cells because he has no cancer, just to make it "fair"?
9
TAKE MONEY and run! One manner of redress in Westchester would be for the IRS to impound federal monies funded for the area to remedy the harm done to US taxpayers, who have been extorted by the obstructionism of officials who have blocked low-cost housing. Elsewhere, in high-cost places like Silicon Valley, where everything is very far apart, there is a crisis. Nobody can afford to work minimum wage jobs because it costs more to get to work that they would earn. Historically, though, in older cities like Philadelphia, wealthy homeowners lived cheek by jowl with their domestic employees and others in the working class. So you'll see, in the older parts of the city, some wide streets with sumptuous housing, alternating with narrow lanes, where housing is very modest. The locals not only got along well, but the city thrived back then. Since more and more highly-educated middle class people are unable to get decent jobs, so those moving in may well have much to contribute to exclusive localities, along with those with strong talents and more limited education. Not to mention a pool of labor for unfilled local jobs that pay minimum wages.
2
And what happens when more states refuse Federal money, i.e. expansion of Medicaid. The Feds will have less and less leverage to force social engineering down the throats of citizens.
If anything taxpayers have been harmed more by the "War on Poverty" transfer of wealth than the money that Westchester received.
If anything taxpayers have been harmed more by the "War on Poverty" transfer of wealth than the money that Westchester received.
1
I have read the 23 comments and several, perhaps many, point to a subject that is pretty much avoided here in all columns containing the word "race". That subject is class.
I lived in Brighton, New York, a suburb of Rochester for many years, a distinctly middle-class area. I learned that before we moved there that the areas around Twelve Corners were zoned in some way so that Jews were not welcome. Fortunately, that changed and perhaps Verified Mancuroc knows what made such change possible. Brighton has a very sizable Jewish population and is all the better for that.
I mention this because in my view the first role of government should be to ensure that no one should be excluded from a particular area if they can afford the going rates in that area, excluded for any of the reasons under the heading "racism".
After reading the comments I realize that we need a much more careful presentation of information about creating "affordable" housing. What I am perhaps really trying to say is that after 20 years of living in Sweden I know almost nothing about patterns of providing "affordable" housing. Some commenters raise questions, commenters whose basic positions I probably do not share, but questions worth discussion.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
I lived in Brighton, New York, a suburb of Rochester for many years, a distinctly middle-class area. I learned that before we moved there that the areas around Twelve Corners were zoned in some way so that Jews were not welcome. Fortunately, that changed and perhaps Verified Mancuroc knows what made such change possible. Brighton has a very sizable Jewish population and is all the better for that.
I mention this because in my view the first role of government should be to ensure that no one should be excluded from a particular area if they can afford the going rates in that area, excluded for any of the reasons under the heading "racism".
After reading the comments I realize that we need a much more careful presentation of information about creating "affordable" housing. What I am perhaps really trying to say is that after 20 years of living in Sweden I know almost nothing about patterns of providing "affordable" housing. Some commenters raise questions, commenters whose basic positions I probably do not share, but questions worth discussion.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
3
As a Westchester resident I agree with my fellow county residents that there is no discrimination against any color, race, gender, etc. Anyone who can afford to live here can buy property and live openly as a equal member of community. The comments against Westchester are unjust and untrue.
17
Have lived in Westchester County for years. Plenty of racism here but, no more generally than elsewhere in NY. And, like many places, if you have a middle class income or above, it can help you to avoid much of the more overt or obvious racism. The not so new racism is subtle and sophisticated and uses economics to mask racism. People of color are barred from certain areas or spaces ostensibly because they don’t have enough of an income (and are prevented from obtaining such income by many things cited in numerous articles in this newspaper), and although this incidentally harms some poorer whites, they are not the true targets, but they too are often seen as undeserving. Seven hundred and fifty affordable housing units is not a lot of people or diversity, but it is still strongly resisted and at a high cost to taxpayers via legal fees, that says a lot about the socio-political climate in Westchester County.
Except the part where the county defrauded the government for millions of dollars by agreeing to build affordable housing with that money, then lied and used the money for other purposes. Those comments are true and are the most important part of the story.
1
The NYT likes to promote the benefits of diversity. However, it rarely acknowledges any counter argument. Out here in suburbia though, diversity is not "all good." With greater diversity something has been lost. It's hard to establish trust and common ground between people. Having shared traditions helps. These traditions were once common bonders, but they have been extinguished (like our neighborhood wide holiday caroling party). The minority racial/ethnic groups hold their own gatherings (at Chinese language schools, for example) while the whites are left out in the cold. No one complains when the "norm" gets hurt.
Westchester has been harshly labeled as "racist", for its natural instinct to prefer its own. No one else is held to such a high standard though.
Spike Lee gets applauded for lamenting the Black loss to gentrification in Brooklyn, while whites are called out as "racists" to minimize the problems that come with low-income housing. It's unfair. Struggling, upper middle-class whites are under assault from every direction and they have very few tools with which to protect themselves. The one-sidedness of the NYT only makes things worse.
Westchester has been harshly labeled as "racist", for its natural instinct to prefer its own. No one else is held to such a high standard though.
Spike Lee gets applauded for lamenting the Black loss to gentrification in Brooklyn, while whites are called out as "racists" to minimize the problems that come with low-income housing. It's unfair. Struggling, upper middle-class whites are under assault from every direction and they have very few tools with which to protect themselves. The one-sidedness of the NYT only makes things worse.
18
If Westchester took the money under false premises and wishes to retain it's wealthy only character let them pay it back.
It's welfare if you are poor and an economic incentive, subsidy, or tax break if you are rich.
There might more fraud in the latter, because they would have more creative accountants and attorneys.
It's welfare if you are poor and an economic incentive, subsidy, or tax break if you are rich.
There might more fraud in the latter, because they would have more creative accountants and attorneys.
11
Thank God! Now that all the racial problem this country has, poverty, illegitimacy, drugs, incarceration, inner city schools, neighborhood disintegration and decay have been solved and blacks are now in every way equal to their former masters, lets cross that final frontier and install a few slums in Westchester County.
8
It is money not race that drives this.
Property in Westchester is unbelievably expensive. The house my husband grew up in, an ordinary 55 year old 4 bedroom split level, had a tax assessment of between $15K and $19K. People paying that kind of money are purely interested in maintaining property value. They nimby EVERYTHING, not just dense housing complexes, that will potentially reduce the charm or the perception of quality of life to potential buyers. Just look for a nearby supermarket or strip mall. They were established in the 1960s or not at all.
It isn't so much much white privilege, as just plain privilege, that they are protecting.
K
Property in Westchester is unbelievably expensive. The house my husband grew up in, an ordinary 55 year old 4 bedroom split level, had a tax assessment of between $15K and $19K. People paying that kind of money are purely interested in maintaining property value. They nimby EVERYTHING, not just dense housing complexes, that will potentially reduce the charm or the perception of quality of life to potential buyers. Just look for a nearby supermarket or strip mall. They were established in the 1960s or not at all.
It isn't so much much white privilege, as just plain privilege, that they are protecting.
K
8
Westchester is beautiful as are many other large geographic areas near major Metropolitan areas. As we are still a capitalistic country anyone is encouraged to aspire to living in any of the towns in Westchester. A person just needs ambition, drive, diligence, aptitude, intelligence and other characteristics our present society does not seem to want to acknowledge.
13
So, how about building "affordable housing" units next door to the editors of the New York Times who wrote this article. It is always the middle class, people who have worked hard to obtain houses in crime-free neighborhoods, who are expected to welcome a bunch of riff-raff into their area so that we have "diversity". Guess what? Some people do not want diversity because of the crime and falling prices of property that this kind of social engineering brings. When people are willing to work hard, get an education, learn about middle class values and respect for their community, then they can earn the money to pay for the type of housing they deserve.
43
I have to ask again: why are you defending defrauding the federal government for millions of dollars of our money? Westchester county did that. It took the money, agreed to build affordable housing with it, then reneged and kept the money anyway.
When rich people steal, we reward them. Everyone else goes to jail. You seem to be in favor of this arrangement.
When rich people steal, we reward them. Everyone else goes to jail. You seem to be in favor of this arrangement.
Another chapter in a very long story. It is a story, not of privilege, but of prejudice, I believe; a tale of the nimby-minded citizens of this suburban idyll.
Back in the late 1960's the ex-director of a large urban planning agency - the Urban Development Corporation - instituted a plan called "9 Towns," intended to bring inexpensive housing to nine of the towns in Westchester. The architectural office where I, a recent graduate, was employed, was designated to design one of these projects near Katonah in upper Westchester County. The site was a junk yard - a rolling piece of rural property covered with old car bodies, mattress springs and trash. The neighbors were largely working class types - people who lived in small wood-framed houses on relatively small lots all along Harris Road, the route that passed the property. This demographic largely characterized much of upper Westchester County at the time. It may still predominate today. (I haven't been back there in a very long time.)
One would have thought that cleaning up the junk would have been welcomed. It was not. The neighbors feared change, feared the arrival of a new racial demographic. And boy, did they object. They fought the project at every turn, and eventually killed it.
The same thing happened to most of the other nine proposals. I believe that, of the nine possible projects, only one was completed. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
Back in the late 1960's the ex-director of a large urban planning agency - the Urban Development Corporation - instituted a plan called "9 Towns," intended to bring inexpensive housing to nine of the towns in Westchester. The architectural office where I, a recent graduate, was employed, was designated to design one of these projects near Katonah in upper Westchester County. The site was a junk yard - a rolling piece of rural property covered with old car bodies, mattress springs and trash. The neighbors were largely working class types - people who lived in small wood-framed houses on relatively small lots all along Harris Road, the route that passed the property. This demographic largely characterized much of upper Westchester County at the time. It may still predominate today. (I haven't been back there in a very long time.)
One would have thought that cleaning up the junk would have been welcomed. It was not. The neighbors feared change, feared the arrival of a new racial demographic. And boy, did they object. They fought the project at every turn, and eventually killed it.
The same thing happened to most of the other nine proposals. I believe that, of the nine possible projects, only one was completed. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
6
Perhaps the summer interns from Oberlin are responsible for this silly Editorial Board rant...?
There is no "impassioned resistance to desegregation" in Westchester. That is a ridiculous assertion.
The policies that offended HUD were pursued by Andrew Spano, a Democrat who is no one's idea of a racist. He's a good man who the Times endorsed repeatedly as he sought public office.
(Spano's right-hand man was Larry Schwartz, who went on to work for Andrew Cuomo, who along with Bill and Hillary Clinton lives in New Castle, one of the towns targeted by HUD for resistance to affordable housing. But I digress.)
Spano promoted the sensible policy of steering affordable housing funds to the county's large cities. They offer easy access to mass transit, walkable shopping and health care, and good (Yonkers, Mt Vernon) to very good (New Ro, White Plains) public schools. Like many of our white neighbors, my wife and I moved to one of these cities specifically so our children would attend diverse schools.
At the same time, Westchester County made it clear that housing discrimination based on race or ethnicity would not be tolerated. Anyone who had the money could buy or rent anywhere, as long as they could afford it. Black buyers in Bronxville? Asians in Armonk? Fine - just show me the money.
This isn't discrimination. This is free market capitalism. So I guess we now know the real target of this misguided HUD overreach.
There is no "impassioned resistance to desegregation" in Westchester. That is a ridiculous assertion.
The policies that offended HUD were pursued by Andrew Spano, a Democrat who is no one's idea of a racist. He's a good man who the Times endorsed repeatedly as he sought public office.
(Spano's right-hand man was Larry Schwartz, who went on to work for Andrew Cuomo, who along with Bill and Hillary Clinton lives in New Castle, one of the towns targeted by HUD for resistance to affordable housing. But I digress.)
Spano promoted the sensible policy of steering affordable housing funds to the county's large cities. They offer easy access to mass transit, walkable shopping and health care, and good (Yonkers, Mt Vernon) to very good (New Ro, White Plains) public schools. Like many of our white neighbors, my wife and I moved to one of these cities specifically so our children would attend diverse schools.
At the same time, Westchester County made it clear that housing discrimination based on race or ethnicity would not be tolerated. Anyone who had the money could buy or rent anywhere, as long as they could afford it. Black buyers in Bronxville? Asians in Armonk? Fine - just show me the money.
This isn't discrimination. This is free market capitalism. So I guess we now know the real target of this misguided HUD overreach.
60
"A place of leafy privilege" seems to raise the editorial board's ire. According to recent reports, New York City is residentially the most hyper-segregated city in the nation. Concrete canyons of privilege are okay then? Make all the condos bordering Central Park and Park Avenue make available affordable housing that is ethnically mixed and then we will be getting somewhere.
De Blasio should push for this, because Manhattan's segregation patterns are well recognized.
De Blasio should push for this, because Manhattan's segregation patterns are well recognized.
14
Some of the folks who wrote this editorial live in those neighborhoods. It's not h quote opening.
Where does the judge who made this decision live? What about the so called monitor? I bet the judge lives in a gated community with a not so subtle whites only sign. If people have been successful and can afford to live in Westchester county some judge with his idea about fair housing rules shouldn't change the rules about housing in the county. Does he expect to see low priced housing on the same streets as with million dollar homes? There are zoning laws that cover the size of the land and house styles allowed in the area. It isn't up to a judge to lower the value of everyone's property because he thinks people who can't afford the large houses should live there. Why should the taxpayers who have worked hard to earn their status have to subsidize low cost housing. This is not a racial issue. There are black and Hispanic families who are wealthy enough to live where they want in the county. Let the judge start by building low income and subsidized housing in his community first and see how that works for him. He can even build a back road entrance so he doesn't have to see them come and go just like that two entrance building in NYC.
46
'...that two entrance building in NYC...'
The 'poor door' is an indication of what will happen when people are given something for nothing. Instead of gratitude, there is resentment and demands for more 'free' perks.
Rest assured that if luxury housing was given to any middle class person for a pittance, they would not care what door they entered their Park Avenue apartment through.
The 'poor door' is an indication of what will happen when people are given something for nothing. Instead of gratitude, there is resentment and demands for more 'free' perks.
Rest assured that if luxury housing was given to any middle class person for a pittance, they would not care what door they entered their Park Avenue apartment through.
1
Federal fair housing legislation was first proposed by Lyndon Johnson in January, 1966 where it quickly vanished into politically and geographically bipartisan gridlock.
The legislation languished there in a nation weary of civil rights legislative fights and victories in 1964 and 1965. Until April 4, 1968 when urban unrest followed in the wake of the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.. Within weeks the law was voted favorably out of committee, passed by both houses of Congress and signed by LBJ into law.
The myth that antipathy to federal housing was divided along political or geographic regional or socioeconomic educational lines is belied by history and this Westchester New York present. The timeless iconic play " A Raisin in the Sun" about a fictional black Chicago family attempt to buy a home in a white neighborhood is still relevant today. South side Chicago native Lorraine Hansberry's play was based upon her own family experience. The play was updated to the present and told from the past perspective of the white family sellers in the Pulitzer Prize winning play "Clybourne Park" by Bruce Norris.
The legislation languished there in a nation weary of civil rights legislative fights and victories in 1964 and 1965. Until April 4, 1968 when urban unrest followed in the wake of the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.. Within weeks the law was voted favorably out of committee, passed by both houses of Congress and signed by LBJ into law.
The myth that antipathy to federal housing was divided along political or geographic regional or socioeconomic educational lines is belied by history and this Westchester New York present. The timeless iconic play " A Raisin in the Sun" about a fictional black Chicago family attempt to buy a home in a white neighborhood is still relevant today. South side Chicago native Lorraine Hansberry's play was based upon her own family experience. The play was updated to the present and told from the past perspective of the white family sellers in the Pulitzer Prize winning play "Clybourne Park" by Bruce Norris.
9
@RD: Why is it that everything the Editorial Board says is so incredibly pompous and irritating?
Exactly correct!
Exactly correct!
7
Westchester shouldn't have taken the money if it didn't follow through on its promises.
But as a side point, the population of the US right now is 64% non-Hispanic white, 12% black, 5% Asian, and 16% Hispanic.
Westchester country is 57% non-Hispanic white, 16% black, 5% Asian, and 22% Hispanic. Its demographics are more diverse than the US as a whole.
So the claim that it's a white enclave just isn't true.
But as a side point, the population of the US right now is 64% non-Hispanic white, 12% black, 5% Asian, and 16% Hispanic.
Westchester country is 57% non-Hispanic white, 16% black, 5% Asian, and 22% Hispanic. Its demographics are more diverse than the US as a whole.
So the claim that it's a white enclave just isn't true.
72
Who are you kidding? Westchester may be 16% black, but most of them live in the same, segregated, poor areas. Those of us who live in these leafy enclaves can confirm that there is barely a black person to be seen. It's a shame.
I live down the road from Chappaqua Station. It's right by the Saw Mill and train tracks and should be in a safer area. The Cuomos and Clintons both live nearby, perhaps they can help find a better site.
I live down the road from Chappaqua Station. It's right by the Saw Mill and train tracks and should be in a safer area. The Cuomos and Clintons both live nearby, perhaps they can help find a better site.
1
There are many areas of Westchester that are not white enclaves, principally in the villages, towns, or cities, such as Mt. Kisco, Ossining, Peekskill, White Plains, Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle, where minorities cluster. The more rural areas are mostly white. These are the neighborhoods in question, Chappaqua included.
Such broad, convenient, simplistic and misleading statistics do not begin to tell the reality of Westchester or many other counties (and cities) around the nation. Westchester is a huge county, but its minority populations are concentrated in well-known, more narrow areas (specific towns). This is a too-frequent scenario in the U.S.
The point is to desegregate, to allow any citizen to live anywhere, not just in certain areas only and away from closed communities which have erected clear barriers to enforce their coded goals.
The point is to desegregate, to allow any citizen to live anywhere, not just in certain areas only and away from closed communities which have erected clear barriers to enforce their coded goals.
2
I say this as a life long progressive, I agree with Mr. Astorino. I have made the same arguments regarding the consent decree in our county. Except that this county is mostly dedicated open space, and the areas that aren't, are already built up, and filled with lots of steep hills.
Add to that, local families are out of luck for their children buying or even renting here, because the prices are so exorbitant and landlords are gouging. People are being pushed out of San Francisco, and then not just into Marin or Contra Costa, but into Sonoma county, and those folks are being pushed into Lake County...
Well, the wealthy Russians who are buying here and the Europeans will still count as white, but I imagine at some point the Asian community will start growing - except they'd rather live in Asian communities.
There are virtually no fair housing complaints based on race in this county. The problem is money, not race. Middle class whites can't live here either unless they bought their homes 20 years ago.
Yes, most states in the US have a higher white population than our "too white" county.
Mr. Agostino's questions are quite fair. Is the gov't going to break up areas that are predominantly Filipino, Chinese, Latino? The Latino population in San Francisco is fighting like heck to maintain it's community.
And I say this not only as a progressive person, but as a renter.
Our county will lose its character because of all the extreme wealth that is coming in. It will be a loss.
Add to that, local families are out of luck for their children buying or even renting here, because the prices are so exorbitant and landlords are gouging. People are being pushed out of San Francisco, and then not just into Marin or Contra Costa, but into Sonoma county, and those folks are being pushed into Lake County...
Well, the wealthy Russians who are buying here and the Europeans will still count as white, but I imagine at some point the Asian community will start growing - except they'd rather live in Asian communities.
There are virtually no fair housing complaints based on race in this county. The problem is money, not race. Middle class whites can't live here either unless they bought their homes 20 years ago.
Yes, most states in the US have a higher white population than our "too white" county.
Mr. Agostino's questions are quite fair. Is the gov't going to break up areas that are predominantly Filipino, Chinese, Latino? The Latino population in San Francisco is fighting like heck to maintain it's community.
And I say this not only as a progressive person, but as a renter.
Our county will lose its character because of all the extreme wealth that is coming in. It will be a loss.
32
Rationalizing racism is always a sad, pathetic spectacle.
1
@Miriam-Fair to ask if the government is going to break up two states - Vermont and Main? Government does not break up states so as the Times Editorial says, this particular statement was "nuts".
I have a comment waiting review that does support part of what you have written. Too little information is given about class and economics (SES data). We needed data on just exactly what the SES data are for the people who would be able to afford the "affordable" housing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
I have a comment waiting review that does support part of what you have written. Too little information is given about class and economics (SES data). We needed data on just exactly what the SES data are for the people who would be able to afford the "affordable" housing.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
As the Editorial Board notes, Rob Astorino's asking HUD if it intends to break up Vermont and Maine for being too white is "nuts".
Not only is it "nuts" but it is also ironic. When people with names like Astorino first started to coming to America they were seen as all too dark, all too foreign, to be welcomed in the best neighborhoods.
And, beyond being both nuts and ironic the question reflects ignorance. I invite Astorino to visit Burlington and Winooski Vermont with me when I am there in August (insha' allah). I will walk him around the neighborhood where one of my UVM daughters lived and then take him over to Winooski. He will be unable to miss the Somali Bantu brought by the State Department quite a few years ago. The women with their rainbow hijabs and clothing cannot be missed. We will end up visiting Kids Lemonade on Church Street, run last year by a great bunch of kids, almost all with roots in The Horn of Africa.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Not only is it "nuts" but it is also ironic. When people with names like Astorino first started to coming to America they were seen as all too dark, all too foreign, to be welcomed in the best neighborhoods.
And, beyond being both nuts and ironic the question reflects ignorance. I invite Astorino to visit Burlington and Winooski Vermont with me when I am there in August (insha' allah). I will walk him around the neighborhood where one of my UVM daughters lived and then take him over to Winooski. He will be unable to miss the Somali Bantu brought by the State Department quite a few years ago. The women with their rainbow hijabs and clothing cannot be missed. We will end up visiting Kids Lemonade on Church Street, run last year by a great bunch of kids, almost all with roots in The Horn of Africa.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
7
You won't see Rob Astorino in Burlington and Winooski Vermont- they're not white enough for his delicate sensibilities. Anyway, he's too busy piloting the Westchester clown car!
1
It would have been nice if the author of the article had listed at least a few of the existing zoning regulations that he describes as being "racist." Would half acre zoning be one of the "race driven" zoning rules? I think next the Feds should go after Palm Beach, Park Avenue, and why not Monte Carlo? Let's load them sanctions.
42
The only color that matters here in Westchester is green.
80
Westchester likely will never willingly end its fight against assimilation of large numbers of minorities. We have to remember that Westchester, like big parts of the Long Island counties of Nassau and Suffolk, became seriously populated as a result of white flight from New York City. Indeed, we’re informed by Robert Caro, biographer of New York’s legendary Robert Moses who tore up half the region to recreate it to his own liking, that the parkways and drives that dot Westchester and Long island were intentionally served by overpasses designed to restrict traffic to passenger cars, keeping buses of inner-city dwellers from using them.
These folks aren’t concerned so much about the tactical requirement of a few lower-income housing units or even by fairer zoning: they’re concerned that these demands are merely a Trojan Horse intended to allow the opening of a gate followed by invading hordes, protected by increasingly aggressive federal law and regulation with the force of law. They don’t mean to let in the Trojan Horse unless they’re forced to it by more than a consent decree that they can delay for years and years.
But, in the end, they’re likely fighting a losing battle with regard to race and ethnicity, even if they’re able to maintain distinctions by class. Enough non-whites are making enough money now to afford homes in these enclaves that their lily-white character can’t really survive. They’ll need to get beyond that.
These folks aren’t concerned so much about the tactical requirement of a few lower-income housing units or even by fairer zoning: they’re concerned that these demands are merely a Trojan Horse intended to allow the opening of a gate followed by invading hordes, protected by increasingly aggressive federal law and regulation with the force of law. They don’t mean to let in the Trojan Horse unless they’re forced to it by more than a consent decree that they can delay for years and years.
But, in the end, they’re likely fighting a losing battle with regard to race and ethnicity, even if they’re able to maintain distinctions by class. Enough non-whites are making enough money now to afford homes in these enclaves that their lily-white character can’t really survive. They’ll need to get beyond that.
6
Rob Astorino is a disgrace. It is too bad Westchester County officials didn't learn from the mistake the City of Yonkers made in the 80s when they refused to create integrated housing and were fined a million dollars a day. Yonkers was a national embarrassment and now it seems Westchester County is headed in that direction!
Shame!
Shame!
10
I don't see how Westchester owes anyone anything. What is the logic of this? Maybe the fed should order Baltimore to construct luxury condos to promote integration and forcibly bus kids from Westchester to attend schools there. An invisible white's only sign? Why is it that everything the Editorial Board says is so incredibly pompous and irritating?
90
You folks don't seem to get the real heart of the matter. Westchester County took millions in federal funds, lied about what they were doing with it, and then found itself in a position where it had to honor the agreement they voluntarily made or have to pay huge fines for their crimes. If I took millions of dollars and it turned out I lied and spent the money in a different way, do you think I should get off scot-free? They shouldn't either.
6
When will The Times realize that it is economic segregation at issue, not racial segregation? We live in a capitalistic society, 'fair' has nothing to do with such a society. The market place decides what is fair, not the government. So, equality is never going to be something the government can force on people. They vote with their feet, it is that simple.
89
The low-income housing tax credit was enacted in 1986 with the blessing of Ronald Reagan, and it has produced high quality, well-designed affordable housing around the nation by providing a vehicle for investment in that housing by large corporations and financial institutions. It has been a success story without doubt.
Too bad that supposedly forward thinking Westchester County, NY cannot seem to get on the band wagon and remains engaged in an obstructionist battle against an agreement it signed reminiscent of the deep south in the 1950s-1960s in their desperate efforts to thwart racial equality. Perhaps a contempt of court citation and fines will work where reason has not prevailed.
Too bad that supposedly forward thinking Westchester County, NY cannot seem to get on the band wagon and remains engaged in an obstructionist battle against an agreement it signed reminiscent of the deep south in the 1950s-1960s in their desperate efforts to thwart racial equality. Perhaps a contempt of court citation and fines will work where reason has not prevailed.
5
When low-income housing appears on Park Avenue and 70th Street, or perhaps in the Village of East Hampton, we can consider taking ministrations like the present essay more seriously.
104
There happens to be a great deal of affordable housing being built right now, in many of the highest rent districts of Manhattan, as well as in the rest of NYC.
3
The Westchester settlement, as with all ill-thought-out liberal ideas of housing fairness, confuses affordability and integration. There is no constitutional or ethical reason all towns should be open to those of all financial levels. I moved here from a NJ town famous for its integration, and also its "leafy privilege." Encouraging buyers from a variety of ethnic and racial backgrounds to move here is one thing;destroying green space and beauty to create mini cities instead of rolling hills is another.
39
"There's no reason why towns should be open to all income groups?"
That's how you can tell America ain't what it used to be and what it has become is not constitutionally worth squat. A thoroughly Republicanized country lacking a democratic culture
That's how you can tell America ain't what it used to be and what it has become is not constitutionally worth squat. A thoroughly Republicanized country lacking a democratic culture
1
Westchester is a great place to live because of its local communities. My neighbors and I have worked hard most of our lives so we afford to live in Westchester. We appreciate where we live and work hard to maintain the image Westchester has nationally. It is a big slap in the face to residents of Westchester when the government mandates that we have to make room for people who are just lucky to be chosen for affordable housing. These affordable housing dwellers will have no interest in Westchester other than to take advantage of the benefits that a well-to-do community is able to provide for them.
Westchester isn't the only affluent place where there is a kerfuffle going on with affordable housing. George Lucas is getting his "revenge" on Marin Country by purposely footing the bill to develop affordable housing projects around the location where Marin refused to allow Lucas to build his new film studio. I say revenge because Lucas and everyone in Marin (and Westchester) knows that affordable housing leads to more crime and lower property values.
Westchester isn't the only affluent place where there is a kerfuffle going on with affordable housing. George Lucas is getting his "revenge" on Marin Country by purposely footing the bill to develop affordable housing projects around the location where Marin refused to allow Lucas to build his new film studio. I say revenge because Lucas and everyone in Marin (and Westchester) knows that affordable housing leads to more crime and lower property values.
25
"Westchester got into this mess because for years it took tens of millions in federal housing funds while falsely claiming it was meeting the conditions under which the money was given." If Westchester didn't want to meet federal requirements for developing affordable housing, Westchester shouldn't have taken federal money.
Can you cite credible research showing that affordable housing leads to more crime and lower property values?
Can you cite credible research showing that affordable housing leads to more crime and lower property values?
1
Actually, we in Marin County for the most part, believe George Lucas is sincere. Believe me, he has better things to do with his life than go thru what is entailed in putting in an affordable housing project in a rural area in Marin.
Furthermore, his plans are for workforce housing (teachers, emt's, electricians...) and low income seniors. Remember that in Marin, (unless Lucas is planning subsidized housing) the income range required would likely begin at $75,000 a year or more for a couple. As a private developer, he would be under no obligation to create a "diverse" low income community. That said, his wife may have something to say about that.
Furthermore, his plans are for workforce housing (teachers, emt's, electricians...) and low income seniors. Remember that in Marin, (unless Lucas is planning subsidized housing) the income range required would likely begin at $75,000 a year or more for a couple. As a private developer, he would be under no obligation to create a "diverse" low income community. That said, his wife may have something to say about that.
2
The editorial board is in favor of open borders and amnesty - SHOCKED they are also for forced changing of existing towns/neighborhoods.
Quick question though - how can the left be in favor of potential displacement and disruption in relatively affluent suburban towns while at the same time be rail against gentrification which is the same exact thing except that it occurs in lower income areas?
Quick question though - how can the left be in favor of potential displacement and disruption in relatively affluent suburban towns while at the same time be rail against gentrification which is the same exact thing except that it occurs in lower income areas?
52
What does affordable housing have to do with "Whites Only"? Is it possible that the NY Times is unaware that there are twice as many white people in the US living below the poverty line than black people? Trying to prevent a huge housing development from destroying your quiet village is now racist?
I'd love to live on the beach in Carmel, or Malibu, but guess what? I don't have $10M for a house. So I have resigned myself to visiting. It never occurred to me that the residents of these towns had an obligation to buy me a house!
But of course, it wouldn't be me who would get the house; after all, I'm in the middle class. We're the people who pay for everything, and get nothing in return, so its only natural that we should help subsidize a house for someone else to live someplace we'll never be able to afford.
I'd love to live on the beach in Carmel, or Malibu, but guess what? I don't have $10M for a house. So I have resigned myself to visiting. It never occurred to me that the residents of these towns had an obligation to buy me a house!
But of course, it wouldn't be me who would get the house; after all, I'm in the middle class. We're the people who pay for everything, and get nothing in return, so its only natural that we should help subsidize a house for someone else to live someplace we'll never be able to afford.
111
While the NY Times picks on Westchester, it ignores that NYC has the most segregated schools in the country
30
Where does Hillary Stande on this.
She's a resident of Chapaqua. That's how she got elected Senator from NT
She's a resident of Chapaqua. That's how she got elected Senator from NT
14
Anybody can purchase any property in Westchester County if they have the money, including the Town of New Castle. Nobody has the "right" to live in a particular community if they cannot afford it.
Minorities live in every single community in Westchester County, unlike many of the coop apartment complexes in Manhattan and Brooklyn.
Perhaps we should have minority set asides for these "segregated" coop apartment buildings, including just about every building on Fifth Avenue, Park Avenue, and Central Park West, and every building in Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights.
Minorities live in every single community in Westchester County, unlike many of the coop apartment complexes in Manhattan and Brooklyn.
Perhaps we should have minority set asides for these "segregated" coop apartment buildings, including just about every building on Fifth Avenue, Park Avenue, and Central Park West, and every building in Park Slope and Brooklyn Heights.
92
News flash: Affordable housing is in fact being built in Manhattan as well as in the other boroughs.
1
But Westchester's USP is unfairness. No fair requiring it to be fair about anything, that's stealing Westchester's raison d'être.
2
I agree with this. I think Westchester should be made to comply with this the very same day that Andrew Rosenthal's Manhattan co-op opens itself up to low income residents - and not a day later.
80
I am shocked they approved your comment. Which is spot-on!
2
Thank God for Rob Astorino.
The one Republican in NY who actually has principals and stands up to the corrupt statists in D.C.
The one Republican in NY who actually has principals and stands up to the corrupt statists in D.C.
29
I try to stay out of Westchester county as much as I can. Can't afford it and I'm not drawn to it, but that's just me. But is there an example of social engineering by the government that solved a housing or any other problem, improved human behavior, and truly fixed things.
13
Integration,vaccination, public schools. Three successful experiments
2
" will next seek the breakup of Vermont and Maine, for being too white. "
No, Maine is off the agenda, it's the very white home of progressive Bernie Sanders. It's a safe place.
No, Maine is off the agenda, it's the very white home of progressive Bernie Sanders. It's a safe place.
5
I thought Senator Sanders was from Vermont.
3
Mr. Sanders lives in Vermont.
3
@Jp-Visit Lewiston, for example.
The Times editorial board claims "it's nuts" to think we could be talking about Westchester today but not Vermont or Maine tomorrow, but offers zero in the way of evidence to back this point up. Indeed, why not Vermont or Maine? The federal government should have absolutely no say about the type of housing or zoning laws a local jurisdiction puts in place.
What exists in Westchester is not segregation. Anyone who can afford to live there may. Why do these racist progressive bean counters always claim the right to determine what the socio-economic makeup of any given association should be?
God Bless Westchester County and Rob Astorino for standing up to this blatant, racist federal overreach. It shows that there are still a few people in this country who haven't completely lost their minds.
What exists in Westchester is not segregation. Anyone who can afford to live there may. Why do these racist progressive bean counters always claim the right to determine what the socio-economic makeup of any given association should be?
God Bless Westchester County and Rob Astorino for standing up to this blatant, racist federal overreach. It shows that there are still a few people in this country who haven't completely lost their minds.
53
TPierre, the article says, "Westchester got into this mess because for years it took tens of millions in federal housing funds while falsely claiming it was meeting the conditions under which the money was given."
If Westchester didn't want federal interference, it shouldn't have taken federal funds.
If Westchester didn't want federal interference, it shouldn't have taken federal funds.
4
Anyone can live in Scarsdale regardless of color,if they buy a house in the village. There is no discrimination based on race, religion, sexual preference, etc. Several studies were performed and came to this conclusion. It is absurd for DOJ, HUD and other government agencies to force Scarsdale to remedy a wrong that does not exist. What next? Forced busing? Oh, tried that and it did not work so well.
62
I'm white, but not sufficiently wealthy to afford to live in Westchester, and not sufficiently poor to qualify for this housing, so I have to live where my income allows. The problem with this kind of program is that it targets a specific low-income population based on ethnicity. No one is preventing affluent minorities who can afford to from living in Westchester.
57
Right?