For minimum wage, part-time jobs the abysmally low pay is only part of the problem.
My experiences in retail were focused not only on the terrible pay, but the terrible hours that went along with it. 9$ an hour sucks, but it sucks even more when you drop to 12-18 hours a week. I worked 2 jobs wherein i couldn't even afford to pay for rent/food/etc when the hours dropped to almost nothing for 1 job. Those 12-18 hours could drop to only 8-12. I worked part time also as a tutor making 20$ an hour. Optimistically one can only get about 10-20 hours tutoring. If my part-time minimum wage job allowed me reliable hours, I would have been able to get by decently. Not to mention I was taken advantage of when the job i worked at realized I was a good, educated worker, and gave me early-morning supervisor shifts (on the actual supervisor's day off) working for the same damn 9$, while directing a team of employees. To top it off the employees who were employed for most early-morning positions got paid .50 cents more than what I was making. I was supervising people who got paid more than me. The shift and position i routinely worked in got a 1.50$ when hired into it, but when your hired as X position at base pay you get paid for X position regardless of the work you are actually doing. They did this to every new base employee for the required position instead of hiring someone into it. It made me realize that hard work would get me nowhere.
My experiences in retail were focused not only on the terrible pay, but the terrible hours that went along with it. 9$ an hour sucks, but it sucks even more when you drop to 12-18 hours a week. I worked 2 jobs wherein i couldn't even afford to pay for rent/food/etc when the hours dropped to almost nothing for 1 job. Those 12-18 hours could drop to only 8-12. I worked part time also as a tutor making 20$ an hour. Optimistically one can only get about 10-20 hours tutoring. If my part-time minimum wage job allowed me reliable hours, I would have been able to get by decently. Not to mention I was taken advantage of when the job i worked at realized I was a good, educated worker, and gave me early-morning supervisor shifts (on the actual supervisor's day off) working for the same damn 9$, while directing a team of employees. To top it off the employees who were employed for most early-morning positions got paid .50 cents more than what I was making. I was supervising people who got paid more than me. The shift and position i routinely worked in got a 1.50$ when hired into it, but when your hired as X position at base pay you get paid for X position regardless of the work you are actually doing. They did this to every new base employee for the required position instead of hiring someone into it. It made me realize that hard work would get me nowhere.
2
do any of them realize that if you increase their pay the cost goes up as well for the goods and services, to include that increase?
a loaf of bread reflects the cost of growing, processing and manufacturing that is passed along in the cost.
to see a show you have to pay for the increased staffing cost.
to go to Disneyland even more!
a loaf of bread reflects the cost of growing, processing and manufacturing that is passed along in the cost.
to see a show you have to pay for the increased staffing cost.
to go to Disneyland even more!
1
Politicians buy votes this way, especially from illegal aliens and the ignorant. The higher the minimum wage, the greater the number of unemployed , and the greater the welfare rolls become.
Obama's way to spread the wealth around . The death nell to rugged individualism, and the hastening of entitlement materialism. Hail big brother.
Obama's way to spread the wealth around . The death nell to rugged individualism, and the hastening of entitlement materialism. Hail big brother.
1
This will be another example of not thinking through the repercussions in order to look good for the constituents. What does this mean?
Prices will go up to compensate. So those that say "we don't make enough to live here" will still say the same. If you owned a business that is 50% payroll, and your rate went up 50% ($10 to $15), then your costs just went up 25% overall, plus the added work comp and payroll fees and taxes. So a $10 item has to go up to $12.50 to maintain equilibrium.
This will affect all the areas that low income frequent. Fast food, the market, the movies, the restaurants and more and more will all raise their rates. Housing will for sure. More money, more rent. Whenever government tries to control something like this, it ends in chaos.
Business will leave. Why manufacture in LA for $15 hour when I can do it in TX. Or overseas. So more business outsources or leaves. An associate of mine has 400+ LA employees. He has now started seeking sites in TX and will close down LA in the next 24 months. So all these people will have no jobs, no anything. Thanks a lot LA City Council.
All the armchair economists need to shut up. You have no idea what this means. It's a bad day for LA.
Prices will go up to compensate. So those that say "we don't make enough to live here" will still say the same. If you owned a business that is 50% payroll, and your rate went up 50% ($10 to $15), then your costs just went up 25% overall, plus the added work comp and payroll fees and taxes. So a $10 item has to go up to $12.50 to maintain equilibrium.
This will affect all the areas that low income frequent. Fast food, the market, the movies, the restaurants and more and more will all raise their rates. Housing will for sure. More money, more rent. Whenever government tries to control something like this, it ends in chaos.
Business will leave. Why manufacture in LA for $15 hour when I can do it in TX. Or overseas. So more business outsources or leaves. An associate of mine has 400+ LA employees. He has now started seeking sites in TX and will close down LA in the next 24 months. So all these people will have no jobs, no anything. Thanks a lot LA City Council.
All the armchair economists need to shut up. You have no idea what this means. It's a bad day for LA.
4
Absolutely the dumbest thing any government entity could do! Mayor of LA is proud to say they are leading the country. Well you progressives are leading this country down the tubes. You have no fiscal responsibility and your radical thought process is a job killer, not a job creator! This "living Wage" campaign is just as much of a ruse as the radical campaign of Global Warming, oh wait you radicals changed it to Climate Change. Very sad state of affairs in the United States, absolutely no clue how to create jobs and for businesses to remain open. Heck make it $20 per hour so you could lose more of your tax base!
2
Now raise interest rate on meager bank and savings accounts of low-income seniors living on Social Security.
2
It annoys me that those in support of the minimum wage are so ignorant as to some basic economic facts. Yes, inflation is eating away at working people's incomes, making it harder and harder to make it. It is a travesty. The cause? Government Policy. The Federal Reserve's stated policy objective is 2% inflation every year. In other words, you dollar is worth 2% less every year (usually it's worse though.) If I am not clear - this is the fact. The loss of working class income is not an act of God or an unintended consequence of the free market or business greed. IT IS THE POLICY OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE. Making a bunch of small, minority owned businesses pay for the consequences of this policy is just wrong. But I am sure the NYTimes readers do not want to hear this. It does not fit in to their view of the world. ....
3
An absolute joke.
It will be worth little more than the current minimum wage, by the time 2020 comes around.
"We the People", in this failed democracy had better wake up, and fast.
It will be worth little more than the current minimum wage, by the time 2020 comes around.
"We the People", in this failed democracy had better wake up, and fast.
3
Raising the minimum wage is mostly a transfer from those who eat at McDonalds to those who work at McDonalds. It would have no effect on inequality. The minimum wage law should only be used as an enforcement mechanism, meaning that if an employer claims that someone agreed to work for $1 per hour or some amount that it would be unreasonable that someone would agree to, then there would be a violation if the worker was being paid only $1.
How could you not expect vast inequality to occur when you make the tax rate on income received by the rich such as: dividends, capital gains and corporate profits much less than the tax rate on wages and eliminate the tax on inheritance tax for 99.9% of all estates.
“..Equally unhelpful in terms of addressing the income and wealth inequality which results in the overinvestment cycle that caused the depression are those who emphasize various non-tax factors. Issues such as globalization, minimum wage laws, outsourcing, free trade, unionization, the increase in single-parent families, problems with our education system and infrastructure can increase the income and wealth inequality. However, these are extremely minor when compared to the shift of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class. It is the compounding year after year of the effect of the shift away from taxes on capital income such as dividends over time as the rich get proverbially richer which is the prime generator of inequality…”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1543642
How could you not expect vast inequality to occur when you make the tax rate on income received by the rich such as: dividends, capital gains and corporate profits much less than the tax rate on wages and eliminate the tax on inheritance tax for 99.9% of all estates.
“..Equally unhelpful in terms of addressing the income and wealth inequality which results in the overinvestment cycle that caused the depression are those who emphasize various non-tax factors. Issues such as globalization, minimum wage laws, outsourcing, free trade, unionization, the increase in single-parent families, problems with our education system and infrastructure can increase the income and wealth inequality. However, these are extremely minor when compared to the shift of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class. It is the compounding year after year of the effect of the shift away from taxes on capital income such as dividends over time as the rich get proverbially richer which is the prime generator of inequality…”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1543642
2
So sad. Small businesses are not ready for this. I can't afford paying my employees this chunk of money for easy job in the mall with current economy. There are only 2 ways here - Paying cash or move the business to other state with adequate wage laws. City hall, think twice, you gonna lose taxes.
2
There may be only two ways for you.
There are many other persons who are quite capable of running businesses that pay living wages.
There are many other persons who are quite capable of running businesses that pay living wages.
1
@ Sergio - There is a third way, raise your prices to make up for what you have to pay your employees. I'm sure commenters like Alberto would be willing to pay higher prices knowing that his money is going to "pay living wages."
1
That's right "Tired of Hypocrisy," As unimaginable it may be to you I am quite willing to pay such prices for people to live decently.
I and many others are already paying such prices for hens, cows, pigs, and other animals to be treated decently. So I could pay so you get treated decently too.
I and many others are already paying such prices for hens, cows, pigs, and other animals to be treated decently. So I could pay so you get treated decently too.
1
All this foofraw about the world coming to an end, businesses relocating to some mythical kingdom where employees grovel for a salary that won't feed their family, put a decent roof over their head and provide transportation to and from work.
Realistic estimates of what a $1.00 item on McDonald's dollar menu if their employees are paid $15.00 per hour ? It would skyrocket . . . . to $1.02.
The American middle class - hard-working people who earn the respect of everyone . . . including employers. Mao-Mart has foisted their responsibilities off onto we taxpayers for too long.
Realistic estimates of what a $1.00 item on McDonald's dollar menu if their employees are paid $15.00 per hour ? It would skyrocket . . . . to $1.02.
The American middle class - hard-working people who earn the respect of everyone . . . including employers. Mao-Mart has foisted their responsibilities off onto we taxpayers for too long.
2
The end of rugged individualism and the fostering entitlement materialism.
2
Just proves how worthless the US dollar is becoming. People need that much to even stay at poverty level. There was a time in China where people needed a wheel barrel to carry their useless money to shop. Today the minimum hourly wage to consider yourself middle class is 60-80 dollars an hour plus benefits. and that's not really high today. At the rate were going this country will lose the ability to print money as they do now to meet monthly federal obligations, declare insolvency and that's when everything comes to a screeching halt. Even if you think you would be alright because you had money in banks, WRONG, the Fed insurance FDIC would cease and Banks would close their doors and your money would be gone.
Working for minimum wage is taxing--every nickel counts, there are seldom any treats, never a vacation, and forget going to the doctor, dentist or opthomologist.
Rents are out of control in most cities, driven by greed. Wages have been stagnant for decades. There is poverty all around. And, still, the wealthier members of society can only think of themselves.
Homelessness abounds, hunger, too. The country is in shambles and the government is not going to help us, we need to help each other.
Rents are out of control in most cities, driven by greed. Wages have been stagnant for decades. There is poverty all around. And, still, the wealthier members of society can only think of themselves.
Homelessness abounds, hunger, too. The country is in shambles and the government is not going to help us, we need to help each other.
3
Rents are determined by the government marketplace. Thomas Sowell explains.
It's going to do nothing but raise inflation rates and hurt the economy. Congrats LA, the $1 menu at Mickey D's is now the $5 menu
2
In the food industry, As strange as it sounds labor cost are a larger percentage then the cost of the food. Everyone will pay more to eat out.
Well, you may be surprised by the news, but there are a large large number of persons in this country who would do well eating less.
2
@ Alberto - So if people "do well eating less" where is the money to pay a "living wage" going to come from, especially in small businesses?
1
Upping the minimum wage to $15 an hour is a complicated issue and one that brings out a mix of fear and condescending attitudes about lower wage workers. Lots of people see to think high school students are filling your order at McDonald's or cashiers in the market. In my area, I've yet to see one high school student at either job. We have a number of underemployed college grads and people with Master's degrees employed in minimum wage jobs. Employers, especially in retail, schedule employees for ten hours a week and insist they're available on call so they can't take second or third jobs. I can understand the impact on small businesses but we also need to stop judging anyone who doesn't make $100,000 or more a year. The income gap has risen exponentially. Raising the minimum wage won't really fix the problem but it's a start.
1
I have yet to see anyone other than teens working flipping a burger where I live, other than management. Government should have no say in the 21st century on this matter. Of course, it might be a different picture if 'true ' inflation were reported. But that doesn't fit the administrations talking points.
1
“I would prefer that the cost of this was really burdened by those at the highest income levels,” said Gil Cedillo [councilman]
Really? By what bizarre logic is that supposed to happen? "Hoping" for a result doesn't make it happen. The cost of this will be distributed over the entire population, not just the "rich"
Really? By what bizarre logic is that supposed to happen? "Hoping" for a result doesn't make it happen. The cost of this will be distributed over the entire population, not just the "rich"
1
Rich people don't eat at fast food outlets.
These costs will mostly be borne by the lower income bracket
These costs will mostly be borne by the lower income bracket
Big brother is in charge.
1
At $9 an hour, it's not worth the effort to pick up a penny off the ground if it takes you four seconds to do so.
1
Shame on you. For all of us that did pick up those pennies, and succeeded, shame on you.
1
I do not know what is wrong with the NYT, but somehow many of the comments against an increase to the minimum wage have been given golden ribbons of praise by the NYT. If that is what the NYT's officially think about living wages I think I have to discontinue my subscription.
3
Minimum wage needs to be a living wage. The federal minimum wage is not a living wage, therefore states and cities need to raise it. People on minimum wage are not the stereotypical teenager looking for pocket money. Some are, but most are adults, and have kids to support. They need to be able to afford housing, food, and the other neccesities on their wage. I am all in favor of this increase.
2
What is a "living wage"?
And why do burger flippers deserve one??
And why do burger flippers deserve one??
4
To Michael who is supposed to have a college degree, and other readers - is it really too difficult to understand that raising a minimum wage to $15 (pay attention to the adjective MINIMUM) would then according to fundamental economic theory cause other wages for more skilled jobs to rise proportionally? For instance rise from $12 to let us say $19 per hour when burger flipper wages go from $8 to $15 per hour. Or is this just the pretended ignorance of slave-wage business owner trolls?
4
Taking 5 years to phase it in is criminal deception, a typical democrat party sabotage of the very people they are supposed to care about. But of course alleged Liberals have to keep 10's of millions in desperate poverty in order to buy their votes with promises of future never quite delivered hand outs. Much of the increase in the $15 wage will be eaten up by inflation by 2020, and of course within 5 years the criminal political class can simply stop raising the wage after making up some lame excuse. Take your pick from "We do not want to hurt sweat shop immigrant business owners. They provide a "training ground" for immigrants! Or it would be "racist" to reduce their sweat shop profits and contributions to democratic politicians, or their ability to sabotage enforcement of immigration law via their organized crime of providing a immense mechanism for hiding 11 million illegals!!!"
2
First of all, there is no "democrat party." You sound like the right-wing echo chamber using that term.
Secondly, inflation is going to wipe out a $6.00 an hour raise in five years? What do you think the rate of inflation is? Oh, and you didn't see the part about the minimum wage going up annually with inflation after the five years?
Thirdly, raising the minimum wage has noting to do with enforcing immigration laws or "organized crime." Right-wingers who are living in the alternate universe of their echo chamber want to stop anything that helps working people, and many of their followers haven't figured that out yet.
Secondly, inflation is going to wipe out a $6.00 an hour raise in five years? What do you think the rate of inflation is? Oh, and you didn't see the part about the minimum wage going up annually with inflation after the five years?
Thirdly, raising the minimum wage has noting to do with enforcing immigration laws or "organized crime." Right-wingers who are living in the alternate universe of their echo chamber want to stop anything that helps working people, and many of their followers haven't figured that out yet.
1
As an employer, if I had to pay someone with low skills starting out at $15, then I have to pay my high-skilled people $25-$30. While I charge $40-50/hour for service to my clients to provide bookkeeping and other administrative services. Now I have to raise my rates to $55-$60 in order to keep enough to cover overhead, etc. (this is a small business, only 4 employees so we don't have a huge margin and of course, can't bill every minute of the day because we have internal operations). So prices will go up. I'd say let these cities try it as a test for 2-5 years. See how it works before you demand the rest of the country do the same.
2
Or perhaps only smart people in Germany and Scandinavian countries can manage to pay their employees living wages?
1
You have it exactly right. I posted here early on, stating that by 2020, inflation will surely have made 15 bucks an hour of about the same value as today's minimum wage. In effect, net gain for the poorer folks, will be ZERO, as usual.
2
The reality is that when you raise the minimum wage you decrease the number of people employed in the work-force...... Trickle down, doesn't trickle down.
4
Dear Brian Zwart from Naples:
I guess that if you are used to travel to Thailand to pick a dozen escorts for what you pay for one here in the USA, then you are right.
The thing you should consider is that maybe those cheap workers are so cheap because they don't want to die of hunger, not because they think what you pay them is fair. Have you considered that?
I guess that if you are used to travel to Thailand to pick a dozen escorts for what you pay for one here in the USA, then you are right.
The thing you should consider is that maybe those cheap workers are so cheap because they don't want to die of hunger, not because they think what you pay them is fair. Have you considered that?
1
Exactly. Many of the commenters here seem to think that the money comes out of nowhere. When you limit the rate at which people are allowed to work, all those who have productivity/skill levels that are valued at a lower than $15.00/hour rate, will not be employed. This ruling will only limit the amount of college students able to be employed, and forget about high-schoolers...
2
You would vote for this only if you have never run a small business. This will benefit the family run restaurants and franchises. but may force closures of some places. This will reflect in the fast food industry, already one of the most competitive.
5
If you can't afford to run your business without taxpayers subsidizing your workforce, you shouldn't be in business.
1
In the past I had a business with 25 employees making clothes, and my problem was not the employees salaries, but the availability on time of adequate fabrics for when they were needed. Most people in this and other countries have too many clothes, so for them buying additional clothes is not a basic necessity, but rather a luxury and therefor their price does not have to be cheap, unless you want to sell them in large numbers.
1
And many may close shop and leave more on food stamps and welfare.
2
15 dollars an hour is around 31000 dollars a year, which is not an unreasonable amount to expect to earn. It is ridiculous that people are forced to work multiple jobs to make ends meet. 15 dollars an hour minimum should be a national policy. And for all those complaining that they went to college and now are only earning 15 dollars an hour. Your wages will probably also have to rise, because, why would you go through all the effort of getting a degree if you could earn the same at a McDonald's?
3
To all the people who claim that wage growth has been stagnant over the last 30 years, chart inflation adjusted wages and add a trend line with a 10 year trailing period. You'll see that since 1995 wage growth has outpaced inflation. On that same trend line with the same trailing period you'll see that there was a decrease in wage growth when adjusted for inflation between 1970 and 1995.
The period between the peak and trough of the trend, 1970-1995, experienced a 260% increase in minimum wages and a 30% decrease in inflation adjusted wages. The period between the trough and the next peak, 1995-Present, saw only a 70% increase in minimum wages and a 10% increase in inflation adjusted wages. That's right, a 70% increase over 20 years equates to 2.68% annual wage increase. The 260% increase over 25 years equates to 3.89% annually. What LA has passed is a 10.76% annual increase over five years and then to peg to CPI in 2020.
The key is to get a handle on overall inflation and prevent deflation. Introducing unreasonable mandates to a businesses' expenses will not help. This will only induce wage-push inflation that will have a negative impact on the purchasing power of the new found income. Businesses tend to be excellent evaluators of personnel value and will adjust when necessary primarily due to employment market saturation and demand. Pricing their products out of international markets to satisfy the needs of domestic wages will produce a set back rather than a boost.
The period between the peak and trough of the trend, 1970-1995, experienced a 260% increase in minimum wages and a 30% decrease in inflation adjusted wages. The period between the trough and the next peak, 1995-Present, saw only a 70% increase in minimum wages and a 10% increase in inflation adjusted wages. That's right, a 70% increase over 20 years equates to 2.68% annual wage increase. The 260% increase over 25 years equates to 3.89% annually. What LA has passed is a 10.76% annual increase over five years and then to peg to CPI in 2020.
The key is to get a handle on overall inflation and prevent deflation. Introducing unreasonable mandates to a businesses' expenses will not help. This will only induce wage-push inflation that will have a negative impact on the purchasing power of the new found income. Businesses tend to be excellent evaluators of personnel value and will adjust when necessary primarily due to employment market saturation and demand. Pricing their products out of international markets to satisfy the needs of domestic wages will produce a set back rather than a boost.
1
Such is good but Should a young man or woman of say 15-16-17 yrs. old be making $15 an hour during their very first Job? I don't believe so although I do have many congratulation for the adults!
1
I hate to pop anyone's balloon but merely forcing businesses to raise wages will not work for many small businesses. I have practiced accounting for many years and I understand how sensitive these businesses are to slight changes in expenses. Very few have any pricing power (the ability to raise prices). I know someone who will go out of business this year because of increases in minimum wages last year and this year - minimum wages go up $1 on July 1st in California. That will cost this business $100,000 a year in additional labor and related expenses. That amount added to last year’s increase of $50,000 will approximate the total earnings of this business. It's unfortunate that most people I talk with and our economically ignorant leaders don't understand much about how are economic system works. I guess we’ll see how it works over time.
7
Minimum wages in California aren't going up by $1 on July 1. The minimum wage in California was raised in January 2008 to $8.00 per hour from $7.50 in 2007 and $6.75 in 2002. (In 6 years, it went up $1.25 per hour.) It increased to $9.00 per hour effective July 1, 2014, and it isn't scheduled to go up to $10.00 per hour until January 1, 2016.
If your client can't make his business work because the minimum wage is raised $1 an hour in 2016, he shouldn't be in business. His workforce is being subsidized by taxpayers, just like Walmart and many other businesses.
If your client can't make his business work because the minimum wage is raised $1 an hour in 2016, he shouldn't be in business. His workforce is being subsidized by taxpayers, just like Walmart and many other businesses.
@Robert: "I know someone who will go out of business this year because of increases in minimum wages last year and this year ..."
How many people will lose their job?
How many people will lose their job?
This will push up wages of all workers.That's because,if someone is making $15,after working for some company for years,they will need a raise to keep the differentials between workers.This should cause a lot of unemployment,but the Fed will offset it by creating more inflation.So,in the long run,everyone will end up with the same purchasing power,except those on fixed incomes,who will be the losers.Govt will receive more taxes,so overall the average standard of living will decline.Typical big govt nonsense.
1
Minimum wage has a long history, and it's almost all positive. Every time in increase is proposed, the Chicken Littles start screaming "Job Loss!" "Ten dollar hamburgers!" Etc.
Well, if the only way a person can make a living or a profit from a business that pays slave wages, then that person is no better than a slave master. You do not get a pass from your moral obligations because you created a job.
Well, if the only way a person can make a living or a profit from a business that pays slave wages, then that person is no better than a slave master. You do not get a pass from your moral obligations because you created a job.
7
Is a worker a "slave" if they are voluntarily willing to work for that low wage?
I remember when I was 18 and wanted to work as many hours as possible at my minimum wage job. My expenses were low as well, but I still went into debt a little. My skills and experience was minimal, but I was eager to learn on the job. As I became more proficient, I recieved raises and worked my way up to the point where my rate was bid up by those who realized I could produce more, and do better quality work than others.
Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be a living wage - it's a temporary growing and learning experience for workers, who can eventually prove their worth. Wages are determined by the the value of the work performed, as perceived by the people paying them - their employers. If workers are useful but not useful enough to cover their $15/hour rate they will be let go.
I remember when I was 18 and wanted to work as many hours as possible at my minimum wage job. My expenses were low as well, but I still went into debt a little. My skills and experience was minimal, but I was eager to learn on the job. As I became more proficient, I recieved raises and worked my way up to the point where my rate was bid up by those who realized I could produce more, and do better quality work than others.
Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be a living wage - it's a temporary growing and learning experience for workers, who can eventually prove their worth. Wages are determined by the the value of the work performed, as perceived by the people paying them - their employers. If workers are useful but not useful enough to cover their $15/hour rate they will be let go.
This is not good. If people have to subsist on jobs that were originally intended for students and part-time people, what does that say about this country and the lack of manufacturing wealth ? And what effect will this have on low margin businesses? Will these wages extend to seasonal workers? How many businesses will be forced out of the market all together? How many will move overseas?
The focus should be on raising the number of jobs. If government does want to get involved, support new initiatives, research and other positive measures. Germany and other countries do this far more than the United States.
Maybe your next bucket of chicken will arrive by drone from outside Los Angeles.
The focus should be on raising the number of jobs. If government does want to get involved, support new initiatives, research and other positive measures. Germany and other countries do this far more than the United States.
Maybe your next bucket of chicken will arrive by drone from outside Los Angeles.
1
Although I realize that it would crimp some folks' lifestyles, how about adding a maximum wage of $10 million a year?
Does that seem too low? I'm sure that we could come to a compromise figure.
Does that seem too low? I'm sure that we could come to a compromise figure.
3
FALSE Free Radical:
Corporate Economist will tell you that, and second it is not just because it is because as FDR stated (what should be obvious to you) years ago "no employer should pay full time workers less than what it is necessary for them to support themselves and their children, and to pay for housing, health care, and education. Otherwise such employers should not be allowed to operate in this country.
Corporate Economist will tell you that, and second it is not just because it is because as FDR stated (what should be obvious to you) years ago "no employer should pay full time workers less than what it is necessary for them to support themselves and their children, and to pay for housing, health care, and education. Otherwise such employers should not be allowed to operate in this country.
3
Some facts:
--L.A. will have a $15 minimum wage in 2020. Right now it's $9. So if you work 40 hours weekly, your pre-tax gross income is $1,440. Net income ~ $1,200.
--The cheapest 1BR apartment in L.A. County goes for $850 a month (median rent) in the area of Florence-Graham (calculated by Zumper, reported by Curbed LA).
--Florence-Graham, in 2010, had a median household income of $36,841 and 29.1 percent of residents living below the federal poverty line.
-- $1,200 (take home pay) - $850 (rent) = $350 left for gas, electricity, water, food, phone. Not to mention public transportation costs. Or gas and car insurance. Or that community college class you want to take, but...
--...there are 35 community and junior colleges within 50 miles of the Graham-Florence area. Tuition varies from $728 (Saddleback College, 44 miles from FG) to $3,700 (East San Gabriel Valley Regional Occupational Program, 19 miles away). Luckily, Los Angeles Southwest College is only 4 miles away and costs only $1,219. That's strictly tuition. Cost doesn't include textbooks and other classroom or online materials.
--Overall, the average rent of a 1BR in Los Angeles is $1,730 (as of March). But minimum wage is still $9/hr. Take-home pay is still $1,200. There's a deficit of $530.
Imagine $15/hour starts right now. Working 40 hours weekly brings $2,400 monthly before taxes. Net pay ~ $1,800. Average 1BR rent is $1,730. That leaves $70 for the rest of your life.
Have I made my point yet?????
--L.A. will have a $15 minimum wage in 2020. Right now it's $9. So if you work 40 hours weekly, your pre-tax gross income is $1,440. Net income ~ $1,200.
--The cheapest 1BR apartment in L.A. County goes for $850 a month (median rent) in the area of Florence-Graham (calculated by Zumper, reported by Curbed LA).
--Florence-Graham, in 2010, had a median household income of $36,841 and 29.1 percent of residents living below the federal poverty line.
-- $1,200 (take home pay) - $850 (rent) = $350 left for gas, electricity, water, food, phone. Not to mention public transportation costs. Or gas and car insurance. Or that community college class you want to take, but...
--...there are 35 community and junior colleges within 50 miles of the Graham-Florence area. Tuition varies from $728 (Saddleback College, 44 miles from FG) to $3,700 (East San Gabriel Valley Regional Occupational Program, 19 miles away). Luckily, Los Angeles Southwest College is only 4 miles away and costs only $1,219. That's strictly tuition. Cost doesn't include textbooks and other classroom or online materials.
--Overall, the average rent of a 1BR in Los Angeles is $1,730 (as of March). But minimum wage is still $9/hr. Take-home pay is still $1,200. There's a deficit of $530.
Imagine $15/hour starts right now. Working 40 hours weekly brings $2,400 monthly before taxes. Net pay ~ $1,800. Average 1BR rent is $1,730. That leaves $70 for the rest of your life.
Have I made my point yet?????
2
The point is go find a better job or move out of L.A.
Or both !
Or both !
3
Rather than sit around for the next 5 years waiting for minimum wage to increase why not focus on improving your marketability or searching for a better job?
If you can work in a fast food restaurant why not work as a server or bartender and increase your earnings through tips?
There is no magic formula that guarantees working full-time will generate enough money to meet your needs.
It's up to the individual to compete and to strive to achieve the income they need for the lifestyle they want to live.
If you can work in a fast food restaurant why not work as a server or bartender and increase your earnings through tips?
There is no magic formula that guarantees working full-time will generate enough money to meet your needs.
It's up to the individual to compete and to strive to achieve the income they need for the lifestyle they want to live.
5
Fifteen dollars an hour over five years? By the time the 15 is reached it will amount to no increase at all. Prices are rising, not falling. And $15.00 per hour is still not enough to live on for a family. And most minimum-wage workers are not allowed to work full-time jobs, let alone get any benefits. Everyone who is willing to work, who wants to work full time, who must work more than one job to get buy--whether they are a college graduate or not; or whether they flip burgers or push paper for some insurance company deserves a LIVING WAGE--one that can support a family and insure the future of humanity. We're talking about the right to life. Everyone deserves the right to life, family and the future.
2
d-serve
dəˈzərv/Submit
verb
do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).
"the referee deserves a pat on the back for his bravery"
synonyms: merit, earn, warrant, rate, justify, be worthy of, be entitled to, have a right to, be qualified for More
Existence is now equal to worthiness? It's more like you want everyone to have a living wage.
dəˈzərv/Submit
verb
do something or have or show qualities worthy of (reward or punishment).
"the referee deserves a pat on the back for his bravery"
synonyms: merit, earn, warrant, rate, justify, be worthy of, be entitled to, have a right to, be qualified for More
Existence is now equal to worthiness? It's more like you want everyone to have a living wage.
They forgot to look at the ills Seatac in Washing is going through.
1
There clearly will be benefits and negatives consequences for raising wages. If people can earn enough to come off public assistance and pay taxes, this will help growth and the local economy. On the other hand, expect some businesses to cut back due to increased labor costs and /or raise costs. Once you incorporate those unintended consequences, who bears those costs? Price inflation affects everyone just not evenly.
"Who you gonna get
To do the dirty work
when all the slaves are free?"
Joni Mitchell, singer, songwriter
To do the dirty work
when all the slaves are free?"
Joni Mitchell, singer, songwriter
3
A leftist, I look at the minimum wage increase through the eyes of people forced into the 'new economy' where self employment is more and more the norm. Can these involuntary 'entrepreneurs' afford the increase? The consignment store owner who used to manage Borders? The house painter who once worked at CalTrans? The computer repair person who was an IT guy at some downsized company. What happens to them with a 33% increase in labor? Minimum wage isn't just about fast food and WalMart.
1
66.7% over 5 years. 10.76% annually.
The thing that most on this comment line are missing, probably because very few of you own or run a small business, is the true cost to an employer of employing someone. By the time you add in FICA matching, unemployment comp, workman's comp, mandated leave etc etc etc that employee making $15/ hr is really costing the employer $21-26 depending on locality. So in a business where employee costs represent 20% of gross margins that employee has to personally produce $105-130/ hour in gross revenue to be worth hiring to the employer. Add to that the fact that the government extracts on average 35-45+% from the business in the form of income, property and business taxes and you will begin to see why businesses and the Chamber of Commerce oppose more intrusion into small businesses and why many businesses are reluctant to hire. Everyone keeps talking about exorbitant salaries for CEOs, ignoring the fact that the "CEOs" of most businesses are actually individual owners of small businesses whose salaries are whatever profits are left over after payroll expenses, production and facility costs, debt payments and taxes. But evidently 14 out of 15 city council members know more about payroll margins, employee production and what it takes to run a successful business than all the small business owners out there.
2
Any economist will tell you that a 70% hike in the minimum wage "just because" is a terrible idea. If this were to happen on the Federal level, a lot of skilled workers would all of a sudden find themselves making the minimum wage (the average starting salary for a teacher is only $36,000), and would rightly demand higher pay. So the person who now makes $15/hr will demand $25/hr. His supervisor who now makes $25/hr will demand $35/hr. You see where this is going. When the dust settles we will end up with yearly inflation that will make Russia's economy look healthy, and the minimum wage workers will end up with the same quality of life that we have now. This is an extremely shortsighted move that will undoubtedly have detrimental economic effects.
4
If you go to your boss and demand double your salary, will your employer double your salary? Or is the scenario more like, you go to your boss to request a salary that is far greater than what competitors are paying and your employer believes that raising your salary will end up reducing your employer's competitiveness, so no employer gives employees salary increases until everyone else does too?
That's right. All salaries are based on the minimum wage. We all would benefit -- except the 1%. This is how more money can be circulated in the economy. A nation of working poor people doesn't work.
1
Ah yes, the Domino theory of economics. What's next, the Tic Tac Toe theory?
2
If $12/hr is equal to the buying power of min wage in the 1960s, why weren't businesses back then freaking out about paying, what, $1.25? This isn't about sustaining a business, it's about profit margins. Now that we're a service economy, we're going to see the same maneuvers that undermined the manufacturing sector: plants that moved out of country weren't losing money, they were just making less profit. Innovation and diversification built the US economy in the 1950s—along with strong labor unions and the deep deep pockets of the US government to provide housing and education and infrastructure and etc.; today, businesses want a simpler model: making money by taking it from somebody else.
6
What a bunch of political cowards. All for show! By the time 2020 rolls around maybe $15.00 per hour might buy one Wendy's hamburger. Or fast food restaurants will be unaffordable to the poor and their children.
If money's value remains the same better educated and motivated individuals will push the current batch of workers out of their jobs and they can go on welfare. Kids in school will be squeezed out of that job market or for that matter any entry level employment. This is just another government ordered income distribution scam directed at small business.
Imagine the guys at the car wash making $15.00 per hour -- lot of dirty cars on the road.
If money's value remains the same better educated and motivated individuals will push the current batch of workers out of their jobs and they can go on welfare. Kids in school will be squeezed out of that job market or for that matter any entry level employment. This is just another government ordered income distribution scam directed at small business.
Imagine the guys at the car wash making $15.00 per hour -- lot of dirty cars on the road.
1
Do you think the guy who washes your car does not deserve to earn enough to support himself and his children? Why? Isn't he human too? What makes you think what you do is very important, but not what other persons does? Do you know neither you or anybody else chose to be born with whatever capacities and limitations they were born with?
1
Alberto's no, he does not deserve $15 an hour just because he has children while working what is an unskilled, entry level minimum wage job. What he does is worth the same as a teacher or nurse. If he wants better, get another job.
I am amazed at all of the "free market" economy experts here.
Let's stop and look at the most important part of this equation..the workers! Thinking of them only as numbers in an equation is condescending and horribly demeaning.
What is a PERSON worth? I'm now an MD but I have worked many service jobs. It's incredible how you have to swallow your pride but it may be the ONLY job you can find. Not every human being can attend college and come out an engineer or an MBA. A large number of people in our society have major impediments to working. Social anxiety disorders, mental illnesses, developmental problems--both thinking and physical limitations.
Flipping burgers and mopping floors may be the ONLY job many people are able to do. And they are PROUD of their work. You come into work and you take it for granted that the floors will be clean and waxed, that the waste baskets will be emptied, that the bathrooms will be sparkling clean..well some PERSON did that! They came in, punched their time card and did the best job they could!
Do any of you even KNOW who cleans your work space? Having done everything from waitressing (and being harassed by drunks at 2 am when the bars close) to being a motel maid (God people are dirty!) to cashiering...I took pride in my work. As an MD I go out of my way to thank the clerks, the admissions office folks, the cafeteria workers...not out of noblesse oblige but because I make a point of NOTICING THEM. They are ALL important!
Let's stop and look at the most important part of this equation..the workers! Thinking of them only as numbers in an equation is condescending and horribly demeaning.
What is a PERSON worth? I'm now an MD but I have worked many service jobs. It's incredible how you have to swallow your pride but it may be the ONLY job you can find. Not every human being can attend college and come out an engineer or an MBA. A large number of people in our society have major impediments to working. Social anxiety disorders, mental illnesses, developmental problems--both thinking and physical limitations.
Flipping burgers and mopping floors may be the ONLY job many people are able to do. And they are PROUD of their work. You come into work and you take it for granted that the floors will be clean and waxed, that the waste baskets will be emptied, that the bathrooms will be sparkling clean..well some PERSON did that! They came in, punched their time card and did the best job they could!
Do any of you even KNOW who cleans your work space? Having done everything from waitressing (and being harassed by drunks at 2 am when the bars close) to being a motel maid (God people are dirty!) to cashiering...I took pride in my work. As an MD I go out of my way to thank the clerks, the admissions office folks, the cafeteria workers...not out of noblesse oblige but because I make a point of NOTICING THEM. They are ALL important!
11
You can make $15/hr or more in construction. I'm not talking about new home construction, I'm talking about working for large industrial and maintenance companies that are having a hard time finding people that are hard workers, willing to travel and competent. We start our people out at $16/hr in Florida because that's what the market demands and it is truly backbreaking work not because that's what the government demands. Even at that rate we have a difficult time finding qualified candidates.
While you may have taken pride in your work, many have been taught that they deserve the same as everyone else regardless of skill, effort or results. Service industries that require minimal skill and can be completed by ANY able bodied adult will merit the lower pay not the mythic "living" wage. Once again the participation trophy theory is budding it's ugly little head.
While you may have taken pride in your work, many have been taught that they deserve the same as everyone else regardless of skill, effort or results. Service industries that require minimal skill and can be completed by ANY able bodied adult will merit the lower pay not the mythic "living" wage. Once again the participation trophy theory is budding it's ugly little head.
@Nuschler: "Let's stop and look at the most important part of this equation..the workers!"
The customers who ultimately pay the workers are equally important.
"... to being a motel maid (God people are dirty!) ..."
The customers are paying the maid to clean up after them. Sometimes, they even tip the maid.
"As an MD I go out of my way to thank the clerks, the admissions office folks, the cafeteria workers..."
That's very nice of you, but how much do you *tip*?
The customers who ultimately pay the workers are equally important.
"... to being a motel maid (God people are dirty!) ..."
The customers are paying the maid to clean up after them. Sometimes, they even tip the maid.
"As an MD I go out of my way to thank the clerks, the admissions office folks, the cafeteria workers..."
That's very nice of you, but how much do you *tip*?
I have heard and read a number of stories, such as that posted by "McDood" above about employers having a difficult time finding workers. Well, then they, individually or collectively, need to do something different. Recruitment, training and retaining good employees are places to start. Someone without work might be happy to accept any job at 16, but a year later, not so pleased. Business plans have to be based on paying people enough, just like plans are based on the cost of materials, supplies, utilities, etc. If you can't pay enough, you can't stay in business.
16 dollars an hour is a barely livable wage in some areas of the country, in others it would not suffice. I would ask this: have you tried paying more? In running some of my businesses, I have found there is a point where paying more guarantees very little in performance or happiness of employees. The happy medium might be 18 to 22 dollars an hour, but going higher buys little more for the employer.
16 dollars an hour is a barely livable wage in some areas of the country, in others it would not suffice. I would ask this: have you tried paying more? In running some of my businesses, I have found there is a point where paying more guarantees very little in performance or happiness of employees. The happy medium might be 18 to 22 dollars an hour, but going higher buys little more for the employer.
1
makes me glad I don't live there--I only go to any fast food joints once in a while now--with increased COSTS, I won't be able to afford it.at all.
should make all of the illegals in that state happy--higher wages--it's a shame that Americans will continue to suffer because of them.lost jobs--higher taxes, more fees
should make all of the illegals in that state happy--higher wages--it's a shame that Americans will continue to suffer because of them.lost jobs--higher taxes, more fees
1
Yeah rising poverty among the working poor is good for economy. More money in the pockets of workers is bad.
2
Sincerely, thank you for the laugh. It's not often when one unknowingly provides some comic relief to an otherwise serious topic.
2
Minimum wage has nothing to do with assisting the common folk. 40 t0 45% of every dollar earned by a worker goes to TAXES. The only reason the Democrats want a higher minimum wage is to grow the Federal Government at an average of $107,000.00 per "Worker".
2
The cities have a much better grasp of finance than the wealthy politicians running the country. Cities and states are saddled with a huge expense related to poverty and homelessness. By lifting people out of poverty with decent pay, the cities increase tax revenue and reduce poverty related expenses. People making decent money can afford to keep up their property, pay their rent, so fewer condemned houses and evictions. It will helps senior citizens who are forced to work to make ends meet.
Higher wages also bring higher quality employees. Even with an increased cost of living, people will migrate to the $13-15 cities. Why would someone stay in Arkansas or Wisconsin when they can double their income in LA? I saw this headline and my first thought was "Se ya, Ohio with your chump change $8.10 an hour."
Higher wages also bring higher quality employees. Even with an increased cost of living, people will migrate to the $13-15 cities. Why would someone stay in Arkansas or Wisconsin when they can double their income in LA? I saw this headline and my first thought was "Se ya, Ohio with your chump change $8.10 an hour."
1
Sure it'll help senior citizens living off of fixed income assets when the CPI goes through the roof. The only way it'll help them is by driving up housing prices so they can sell and get out of dodge.
1
2020?! The high cost of living in LA makes it an absolute shame that anyone NOW is making less than $15 an hour. When adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage is abysmally low, especially when you factor in that even on $15 an hour you're likely to spend at least half if not more of your income on keeping a roof over your head.
10
"When adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage is abysmally low"
So is the average/median wage. It's no secret that wages in this country have not kept up with inflation, especially over the past 20 years. The main argument against $15/hr minimum wage is that such a drastic hike in the minimum wage is bound to trigger wage inflation in every other wage sector.
So is the average/median wage. It's no secret that wages in this country have not kept up with inflation, especially over the past 20 years. The main argument against $15/hr minimum wage is that such a drastic hike in the minimum wage is bound to trigger wage inflation in every other wage sector.
1
I'm not sure how the costs of living compare, but I live in North Carolina and our minimum wage is $7.25. At most fast food chains, this minimum is a pretty standard starting wage.
Having a low minimum wage which companies cannot legally pay workers less than, is only right, especially in a rich nation such as the U.S.
Such minimum wage laws simply guarantee enough of a wage that workers, who may have little bargaining power, are not treated effectively as 'chattel', or 'slaves'.
But all those living at considerably below poverty level, who don't work at all for any wage, are more or less tragic cases. And those who live like that, and had no ambition, had made little effort to gain skills, and had not gone to college either, are really a pox on the nation.
The 'poor' are not so equally to be either blamed, or to be helped by any government programs.
Sadly, no account is taken by government to distinguish cases in any fair way, only on basis of actual assets, or actual incomes.
People who at least have tried, or at least still care about being a good citizen, deserve better from the government. And those who don't, are a burden, and a shame upon the nation. And the nation has failed all of them, no matter how they have tried or not to apply themselves. It has taken away motivation and rendered totally useless, those who are not among the tragic 'drop out' cases where a person had at least made an effort for awhile. And has treated most despicably those who remain without a living wage, or subsidy from government, and who were unfairly forced out of mainstream America; and most sadly has swollen the ranks of ingrates.
Such minimum wage laws simply guarantee enough of a wage that workers, who may have little bargaining power, are not treated effectively as 'chattel', or 'slaves'.
But all those living at considerably below poverty level, who don't work at all for any wage, are more or less tragic cases. And those who live like that, and had no ambition, had made little effort to gain skills, and had not gone to college either, are really a pox on the nation.
The 'poor' are not so equally to be either blamed, or to be helped by any government programs.
Sadly, no account is taken by government to distinguish cases in any fair way, only on basis of actual assets, or actual incomes.
People who at least have tried, or at least still care about being a good citizen, deserve better from the government. And those who don't, are a burden, and a shame upon the nation. And the nation has failed all of them, no matter how they have tried or not to apply themselves. It has taken away motivation and rendered totally useless, those who are not among the tragic 'drop out' cases where a person had at least made an effort for awhile. And has treated most despicably those who remain without a living wage, or subsidy from government, and who were unfairly forced out of mainstream America; and most sadly has swollen the ranks of ingrates.
Really, “forced to cut half their staff” when staff costs are only around 20% of restaurant expenses. Don’t think that’s real in a service business relying on flesh and blood human effort for sales volume.
Flesh and blood will become processors, sensors and servos.
2
Even 1/2, 2 or 3 percent in big industry may be the difference between gaining a contract or not. Think about it, 20% out of a 20 million dollar small business equals 4 million dollars... it is huge!
I believe that incremental minimum wage increases based on years worked is fair. For example: if a person has worked more than five years (anywhere), this person would command $10/hour and so on following an incremental schedule of 2.5 year intervals with a dollar increase per 2.5 years in the workforce. This can be done by grading a worker through SS Admin since they already track years worked. Simple and will not force me and many others to leave California for a more business friendly state like Texas!
In simple words, how am I to absorb the increase in labor and not tell my customers to pay more for my products? You know what they will do? You have an idea of what I will have to do? Remember Detroit and what it's like a decade later?
I believe that incremental minimum wage increases based on years worked is fair. For example: if a person has worked more than five years (anywhere), this person would command $10/hour and so on following an incremental schedule of 2.5 year intervals with a dollar increase per 2.5 years in the workforce. This can be done by grading a worker through SS Admin since they already track years worked. Simple and will not force me and many others to leave California for a more business friendly state like Texas!
In simple words, how am I to absorb the increase in labor and not tell my customers to pay more for my products? You know what they will do? You have an idea of what I will have to do? Remember Detroit and what it's like a decade later?
The cost of rent and everything else will rise accordingly. Zero sum game.
1
I hear ya! Keep the working poor poor!
1
$15 won't take those 'poor' people out of poverty either. That's a false promise. Inflation goes up, that's about it.
1
This is ridiculous. $15 to flip burgers? Come on ... These people don't think of the long-term economic impact this will have on the economy and job market. Sure, $15 sounds good, but think of all the other people who will lose their job because of the hike in the minimum wage. Food, gas, and any other basic items will also increase because of the increased cost for producing/manufacturing/distributing these items....
2
So some workers do not deserve to earn enough to eat? And you are willing to subsidize those employers, making billions from paying slave wages?
1
Possible things coming from $15/hour minimum. 1. Employees will see an improvement in their standard of living. 2. Employees who earn just above the minimum wage will want an increase to maintain a differential. 3. The low-paid getting an increase will spend the money (unlike the very rich) and this will benefit the economy. 4. Less numbers of minimum wage employees will need to draw on government benefits. 5. Prices will increase which will help to raise inflation a little - a good thing surely. 6. If surrounding areas do not increase their minimum wage, some businesses may move.
Overall, a positive thing that should be nation-wide and have taken place years ago. The fact that individual cities and states are having to increase the minimum wage (that has been stuck for years) shows how useless Washington is - it has constipation and so can't pass anything.
Overall, a positive thing that should be nation-wide and have taken place years ago. The fact that individual cities and states are having to increase the minimum wage (that has been stuck for years) shows how useless Washington is - it has constipation and so can't pass anything.
8
Since when is inflation a good thing?
This ultra low inflation means very low bank rates and so very low saving rates. No incentive to save because no interest earned. All hard on those retired who depend on their savings.
I am not talking high inflation. Most economists agree a modest inflation of 1 to 2% per year is about right.
I am not talking high inflation. Most economists agree a modest inflation of 1 to 2% per year is about right.
Roger that is big over simplification of what could happen here. Also it is not the poor that drive or improve an economy it is the middle class that drive this economy. One of the major reasons our economy is seeing the improvements we want despite job growth is because that job growth is in poverty level jobs. The few middle class jobs that have been created are in areas where we lack the skilled laborers to fill those jobs. While we have more and more people graduating every year, we are seeing those people graduating with degrees in job markets that are flooded with potential applicants. This is why you see grads saying that there is no job for them when they graduate.
In addition to that, there is a large chance that this minimum wage inflation could cause wage inflation in the skilled labor markets and above. This is a 10.8% wage increase per year in just this one area. If we see subsequent increase in the skilled labor markets the inflation would likely increase by more than just a 1-2% gain. A minor inflation is good and needed, however, large inflation is problematic to the economy, and could cause major issues.
I am all for getting people out of poverty and off of government assistance, it is just in my opinion that a minimum wage will not accomplish that.
In addition to that, there is a large chance that this minimum wage inflation could cause wage inflation in the skilled labor markets and above. This is a 10.8% wage increase per year in just this one area. If we see subsequent increase in the skilled labor markets the inflation would likely increase by more than just a 1-2% gain. A minor inflation is good and needed, however, large inflation is problematic to the economy, and could cause major issues.
I am all for getting people out of poverty and off of government assistance, it is just in my opinion that a minimum wage will not accomplish that.
The staffing cuts in the end will leave those who once had 10 or 12 dollar an hour jobs what happened to their jobs. The effects none of the minions calling for increased entry level pay, remember it is entry level, are increases in union dues and union income but more importantly local, state and national income taxes. Tax revenues will increase proportionally while take home pay will remain lower than the typical burger flipper expects.
2
So amnesty for illegals and then a wage increase. So basically a fifteen dollar an hour job for any unskilled Latino who wants one. Brilliant plan to destroy LA, liberals!
3
I'd be more impressed if the "liberal" political class would stop funneling tax money into welfare, food stamps and non-earned "benefits" and instead allowed or created the infrastructure improvements they keep avoiding.
3
Well see, when employers do not pay living wages, the government subsidizes them with food stamps, medicaid, housing subsidies. Do you think workers should be able to eat -- or not?
1
Uuh! Dr Misterious:
Are you talking to the infrastructure that needs to be maintained and rebuilt in this country that Republican corporate congressmen keep voting against?
Are you talking to the infrastructure that needs to be maintained and rebuilt in this country that Republican corporate congressmen keep voting against?
1
Why no mention of who started all this?
Kshama Sawant and Socialist Alternative
Let's give credit where credit is due.
Kshama Sawant and Socialist Alternative
Let's give credit where credit is due.
1
Hungry people?
1
Currently, the $9 Minimum wage is MORE THAN 30% LESS than it was 50 years ago in 1968 when it was worth the equivalent of $12 an hour!
I wonder what the effect would be if today's workers demonstrated with placards asking to be paid the inflation adjusted Minimum Wage amount in 1968?
Under this new Law, people in Los Angeles will ONLY IN 2017 be earning the equivalent of what they were earning 50 years previously.
Some progress this is.
And suggests How UNFAIR minimum wage workers have been treated for almost half a century.
ANYONE who complains about this very MODEST law is showing nothing but contempt for fairness, equity and the concept of a fair wage for the work put in.
American wages and the attached benefits given to the majority of its workers are amongst the LOWEST in the developed World.
And goes hand in hand with the fact that America has the largest amount of poor in the developed world as well as being the 2nd most unequal country in the world in the gap between America's richest and poorest.
DESPITE America bar none, being the Richest Country in the World.
Go Figure.....
I wonder what the effect would be if today's workers demonstrated with placards asking to be paid the inflation adjusted Minimum Wage amount in 1968?
Under this new Law, people in Los Angeles will ONLY IN 2017 be earning the equivalent of what they were earning 50 years previously.
Some progress this is.
And suggests How UNFAIR minimum wage workers have been treated for almost half a century.
ANYONE who complains about this very MODEST law is showing nothing but contempt for fairness, equity and the concept of a fair wage for the work put in.
American wages and the attached benefits given to the majority of its workers are amongst the LOWEST in the developed World.
And goes hand in hand with the fact that America has the largest amount of poor in the developed world as well as being the 2nd most unequal country in the world in the gap between America's richest and poorest.
DESPITE America bar none, being the Richest Country in the World.
Go Figure.....
4
All of the terrible economic conditions in the United States, yet people keep flocking here from around the world. Go Figure.....
The core belief of all conservative principles are that people are not generous or wise but selfish and short sighted, that communities exist because of rather strict enforcement of the rules concerning how people live together and cooperate for the greater good. One of the facts of markets is that the seller who must offer goods or services for sale at prices higher that what competitors offer will sell less and maybe become insolvent rather soon. What this all tells us is that some employers will voluntarily raise employees wages but most will not. The only way to assure that the lowest wages are not starving wages is society stepping in and forcing everyone to pay a certain minimum amount. This saves sellers from sacrificing competitiveness when they pay more for labor and it forces the careless or the unscrupulous to pay as much as everyone else is willing to pay. The notion that businesspeople should be left to decide how much they will pay labor because they will somehow become enlightened beings acting according to enlightened self interest is dumb.
2
When expenses are greater than income businesses close. Most restaurants are owned by owner - operators this increase will cause price increases, and automation. You will be buying your fast food from a computer touch screen, made by a robotic cook. This will eliminate 50% of entry level jobs at a time when teenagers have seen their jobs taken by illegals.
1
The low wage jobs in Los Angeles are mostly not filled by teenagers but by adults struggling to support families. The assembly plants for automobiles, the tire manufacturing plants, the contractors producing airplane parts and machine shops, and most of the industrial production which thrived in 1970 are long gone, today. The growth in jobs are either very highly skilled requiring advanced degrees and professional certifications or they are low paying jobs.
1
Justavenger, It is not the illegals taking jobs from the youth. It is older unskilled workers that are taking these jobs. Some are illegals, some are not. Saying it is just the illegals is a sad political argument.
Everything else though you are correct, of course we are already moving in that direction without a minimum wage hike.
If we want to save this country we need to create more middle class jobs, and our middle class jobs need to pay more. We also must increase skilled and educated workers in the right markets. Increasing skilled and educated labor in flooded labor markets, does no good, and just pushes the less qualified into poor jobs. Along with this we must decrease the disparity between the wealthy and the rest of the nation. We need a better disbursement of the nations wealth. The majority of the nations wealth is generated by the labor of the middle class and poor, but the vast majority of said wealth is held by the wealthy. This is likely always to be the case in primarily capitalistic economy like the US has, however we are pushing it to the extremes, which is never good.
Everything else though you are correct, of course we are already moving in that direction without a minimum wage hike.
If we want to save this country we need to create more middle class jobs, and our middle class jobs need to pay more. We also must increase skilled and educated workers in the right markets. Increasing skilled and educated labor in flooded labor markets, does no good, and just pushes the less qualified into poor jobs. Along with this we must decrease the disparity between the wealthy and the rest of the nation. We need a better disbursement of the nations wealth. The majority of the nations wealth is generated by the labor of the middle class and poor, but the vast majority of said wealth is held by the wealthy. This is likely always to be the case in primarily capitalistic economy like the US has, however we are pushing it to the extremes, which is never good.
May 19th ,2015 “ Los Angeles Lifts Its Minimum Wage to $15 “
May 2020 :”Unemployment rates soar in L.A. "
May 2020 :”Unemployment rates soar in L.A. "
4
Cause and effect
Exactly
Keep workers poor! Americans actually believe increasing poverty with slave wages is good for the economy.
1
what a lark. so you pay a person $15 an hour to make your hamburger...the owner, a rich guy, raises the price of your burger from $6 to $14....he's still rich and getting more so, you remain where you are, a serf. Let me add the cowardice of pols who raise wages and cut budget....on a schedule when their term is over. EVERYONE should be paid a low subsistence wage with a bonus structure...if you help a biz succeed and you are always doing the right thing, you get ahead. If you can't be bothered to show and must be badgered to get things done, you can barely scrape by. 3 rules for a functional society: all start at the bottom, all must work, nothing is free.
2
Great. It goes up in five years. That's enough time for expenses rise enough to make $15/hr keep people running in place and going nowhere.
2
The "proposed" wage hike in Kansas City cannot happen, as the laws of Missouri do not allow cities to raise minimum wage. Now, is it a smart/good idea to raise minimum wage to $15 an hour? Not very likely! It would have one, major, effect, and that would be to cause employers to move low wage jobs out of the city. This is NOT what Kansas City needs! It needs MORE jobs, not fewer. The people need MORE opportunity, not less. Minimum wage jobs, regardless of what they "were" are not supposed to be career path jobs. They are meant for people with minimal skills and experience. If you get more skills or more experience, you move on. If you are delusional enough to think that you can raise a family on minimum wage, you shouldn't be having kids. Don't say "it's my choice!" If you are getting "public" money (EBT, Section 8, whatever...), you are getting OUR money, and that makes it OUR business.
2
By raising the minimum wage from $9 to $15, you may drastically reduce federal payments to the affected workers. Full-time employees paid the new minimum wage will pay more taxes, receive less of an earned income credit, and may no longer qualify for food stamps and Medicaid coverage. Their health care situation is improved by the ACA, but may be more expensive. It would probably be more beneficial to workers if we left their wages where they are and put some teeth into the corporate income tax. People may object that getting more pay is better. That may be true in theory. But government can help these people better than McDonald's can. A higher minimum wage would be better if we had a free market economy. But, for almost 100 years, we've lived in a welfare state and, when it comes to the working poor, free market thinking is obsolete.
1
I wouldn't say welfare state. We aren't a full welfare state, neither have we been free market capitalism since the great depression. The US is a mixed economy utilizing characteristics of both. However, with Obama in office and a growing amount of voters in poverty, we have been increasingly moving closer to a welfare state.
I Don'tknow if we need to "put more teeth into the corporate income tax," but something needs to change to curb the corporate fat cats that running wild right now. Too much of this countries wealth is sitting in the hands of corporations, yet it is the middle class who are increasingly more responsible for the generation of said wealth.
I Don'tknow if we need to "put more teeth into the corporate income tax," but something needs to change to curb the corporate fat cats that running wild right now. Too much of this countries wealth is sitting in the hands of corporations, yet it is the middle class who are increasingly more responsible for the generation of said wealth.
Makes us really proud of our lily livered elected officials in Congress who think it's ok to just hold the line at $7.25 for the majority of the rest of the US.
Not.
Not.
4
For most workers in the US, wages in the US have stagnated during the past 30 years, while they've declined at least 5% for the lowest paid 10%. No doubt this has much to do with the decline in union membership, which have been shown to raise wages of non-union workers in the same labor markets.
The Economic Policy Institute reported that 25% of workers in the US earn less than $10.50 per hour and the BLS has reported that 5% earn around the Federal minimum wage. These wages don't fully support an individual, much less a family when considering the basic and necessary costs of lodging, food, transportation, health care and more.
UC Berkely researchers estimate that the current low wage regime in the US costs taxpayers $152 billion per year to support working families. (See http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-high-public-cost-of-low-wages/. Even a right-wing ideologue should be able to see how this system fleeces both the low wage worker and the taxpaying public to benefit corporate profits. This system needs to be scrapped.
The Economic Policy Institute reported that 25% of workers in the US earn less than $10.50 per hour and the BLS has reported that 5% earn around the Federal minimum wage. These wages don't fully support an individual, much less a family when considering the basic and necessary costs of lodging, food, transportation, health care and more.
UC Berkely researchers estimate that the current low wage regime in the US costs taxpayers $152 billion per year to support working families. (See http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-high-public-cost-of-low-wages/. Even a right-wing ideologue should be able to see how this system fleeces both the low wage worker and the taxpaying public to benefit corporate profits. This system needs to be scrapped.
4
Business doesn’t exist to provide employment, it exist to make profit for its owner and/or share holders.
Workers have no risk therefore they reap no reward. Start your own business and increase your pay.
Workers have no risk therefore they reap no reward. Start your own business and increase your pay.
To "justsavenger":
"Workers have no risk" ???
Do you mean workers daily living necessities are not much more important that your "risk" to go or not to go on vacations to Bermuda ?
"Workers have no risk" ???
Do you mean workers daily living necessities are not much more important that your "risk" to go or not to go on vacations to Bermuda ?
2
Suggesting that everyone should "start their own business" is as ridiculous as claiming workers have zero on the job risks.
Low wages that must be subsidized by the taxpayer often means workers live from paycheck to paycheck. They face the risk of losing their homes and more if they are laid off, can't work because of an illness or injury and more.
Workers also face health and safety risks on the job, including assault and murder.
Most forms can get back pretty well without an owner or shareholder, but try to do that without the workers.
Low wages that must be subsidized by the taxpayer often means workers live from paycheck to paycheck. They face the risk of losing their homes and more if they are laid off, can't work because of an illness or injury and more.
Workers also face health and safety risks on the job, including assault and murder.
Most forms can get back pretty well without an owner or shareholder, but try to do that without the workers.
1
Within the next five years, there is going to be a swelling of welfare roles the likes that have never been seen as employees get laid off or businesses close. True that many will benefit from the increase but many will not. It is kind of like ObamaCare. The middle class gets raped to pay for insurance for the poor.
2
Any business that cannot pay a wage that supports a person to live at the lowest level that a society can expect them to live , does not deserve to be in business as it does not benefit ANYBODY.
1
Once again those who sign the back of paychecks dictate to those who sign the front, with predictable results.
3
To jb from Weston CT:
You write the weirdest things jb. When have employees dictated or otherwise controlled employers in this country. Your deception is cruel.
You write the weirdest things jb. When have employees dictated or otherwise controlled employers in this country. Your deception is cruel.
1
That has never happened jb. Stop lying!
1
It is interesting reading the clear split in opinions. Those who have even minimal experience running a business understand the ultimate consequences which will be bad for jobs and will actually hurt those it's supposed to help. The rest, along with a good percentage of the country, live in the fantasy world espoused by our President, thinking Government can produce jobs, wealth, and create more equality by fiat. Only the private sector can do that, and right now it is severely hampered by thousands of new regulations, requirements, taxes and expensive health care costs for employers. Do any of these people wonder why economic growth is still so weak almost 8 years post recession? Obama's two terms will probably go down in history as one of the worst ever in terms of GDP and wage growth. This is not a coincidence. Raising the minimum wage is a feel good band aid that allows progressives to think that they are helping the working poor. But what those people really need are better jobs with training so they can become skilled and rise up to the Middle class. And job creators are becoming scarce because the impediments to starting a new business in the US have become extreme. Who's going to decide to start a new business in LA with the cost of labor there so much higher? No one, and any remaining industry will flee. That's simple economics. People here confuse business and charity, they are not the same.
1
First of all, we must realize that this won't help to solve the problem of poverty in the country because many citizens work part-time. Company owners will hide income and expenses in order to reduce tax payments. This is another inefficient policy decisions.
Be careful of what you wish for! Smart businesses will now simply cut back the number of people they employ, and will hire younger high school students on a part time basis, who will do more work, thus returning to the original model for these low paying entry jobs and eliminating the "career fast food worker". The net result will be less jobs paying a slightly higher wage, but the gross cost of labor will remain the same.
1
Voting to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour is not the same as guaranteeing employment at $15 an hour to minimum wage workers.
The result of this vote is that many minimum wage employees are going to
become $0 an hour employees,as large companies choose to relocate,smaller ones are forced to relocate,if they can,and Mom& Pop stores are forced out of business altogether.
The result of this vote is that many minimum wage employees are going to
become $0 an hour employees,as large companies choose to relocate,smaller ones are forced to relocate,if they can,and Mom& Pop stores are forced out of business altogether.
1
I'm sure we will hear from business large and small claiming they will have to close, cut staff, export jobs out of LA or out of the US. After all, how can the CEO salaries and stock options continue to grow if they have to pay the people actually doing the most work, and often the least desirable work?
When smoking was banned from restaurants and bars, owners claimed their businesses would be destroyed by the exodus of smoking customers. They will make the same Chicken Little claim now.
When smoking was banned from restaurants and bars, owners claimed their businesses would be destroyed by the exodus of smoking customers. They will make the same Chicken Little claim now.
2
Minimum wage. Hopefully the short term, immediate impact is worth it, and maybe this is the best that can be done. I just keep seeing the wider effects--employers maneuvering around it to the detriment of workers, and workers' gain diminished--neutralize it at best, and cause more damage than good at worst. Studies still to this day don't answer common sense questions like the effects of resultant rising cost on wage, increased work requirements, etc. while economists with grossly incomplete data draw un-academic conclusions. I keep thinking we deserve better than this.
1
My work involves looking over the education and earnings of unemployed/disabled ppl. I come across a significant number of ppl across the country who dropped out of high school (some cases junior high drop outs) and have spotty work history's of minimum /low wage jobs. Many of them have children they can't afford to properly care for. I'm all for living wages, but anyone who expects to make a decent living should at a min get a high school diploma and learn a skill. Not necessarily college because thats not for everyone. But a marketable skill makes a big difference in income. And having kids should be something that is done when the time and circumstances are right. Most min wage jobs are classified as unskilled. Meaning easy to learn and even easier to fill given the many unskilled workers in the economy. If ppl with skills that are in demand are barely making ends meet why should those without skills be entitled to more?
2
"If ppl with skills that are in demand are barely making ends meet ..."
Then something is terribly wrong with your Country.
Then something is terribly wrong with your Country.
1
I’m surprised that the City Council has that much power. The amount of money involved is staggering. When fully implemented each worker will have received a $12,000 per year raise ($6 x 2000 hours). Time Magazine estimates there are 800,000 minimum wage workers in LA. This totals a $9.6 Billion per year increase. This amount is larger than the entire LA budget for 2014 which is $8.12 Billion
California - Broke and getting broker. Go figure.
2
How many workers of the workers whose minimum wages will be mandated at $15 are the 14 members of the City Council who voted in favor of this measure prepared to absorb?
The celebrating is premature. They won’t be celebrating when the legislation goes into effect.They’re going to want to take cover as have the 9 City Council members in my city of Long Beach, New York,who voted down a proposed project by the Army Corps of Engineers who sought to build sand dunes and re-design the shoreline to protect us against a storm .
Sure, their vote was very popular with the surfers who claimed this would
have a negative impact on their surfing,and the homeowners who protested that their ocean views would be adversely impacted.
This 9 member City Council voted down this project in 2009. In 2012,
Superstorm Sandy destroyed the City of Long Beach.
NINE people held the fate of 35,000 in their hands,and the rest of us suffered the devastating consequences of their vote, with our destroyed homes,businesses,property and devastated lives.Some of us have not been able to afford to re-build our homes nearly 3 years later.
There will be no celebrating when the $15 an hour minimum wage actually goes into effect.The result is going to be employers fleeing L.A., whether by choice,or necessity,thousands of unemployed workers,whose wages are going to go down to $0 an hour, just as those in factory towns have.
.
The celebrating is premature. They won’t be celebrating when the legislation goes into effect.They’re going to want to take cover as have the 9 City Council members in my city of Long Beach, New York,who voted down a proposed project by the Army Corps of Engineers who sought to build sand dunes and re-design the shoreline to protect us against a storm .
Sure, their vote was very popular with the surfers who claimed this would
have a negative impact on their surfing,and the homeowners who protested that their ocean views would be adversely impacted.
This 9 member City Council voted down this project in 2009. In 2012,
Superstorm Sandy destroyed the City of Long Beach.
NINE people held the fate of 35,000 in their hands,and the rest of us suffered the devastating consequences of their vote, with our destroyed homes,businesses,property and devastated lives.Some of us have not been able to afford to re-build our homes nearly 3 years later.
There will be no celebrating when the $15 an hour minimum wage actually goes into effect.The result is going to be employers fleeing L.A., whether by choice,or necessity,thousands of unemployed workers,whose wages are going to go down to $0 an hour, just as those in factory towns have.
.
2
I'm not against a higher minimum wage , it's just that wages are determined by economics, not by voting. These low paying jobs were never meant to be able to support a family or provide what some call a living wage. These jobs are known as entry level. Now, if you want to make nothing over entry level wages then it's your call. Most people want to make more than entry level so they get more training and improve their skills at jobs that pay a higher wage. In southern Ohio, a first class welder can make close to or above $100.000.00 per year. Most of us don't work at jobs were love but at jobs that help us to live a reasonably decent life. Do some home work. Look around at the job market. If possible move to another state or city get some specialized training. Don't let politicians dictate what kind of wages you need, that's up to you. If you can't make the kind of wages you need to raise a family and enjoy a reasonably comfortable life, #1, DON'T GET MARRIED and think you'll survive well on $15 an hour.
1
Minimum wage jobs are not designed to support a family. All this will accomplish are staff reductions and business closures. Nice going california.
3
"Minimum wage jobs are not designed to support a family." According to whom? The man who pushed for minimum wages in the first place, FDR, says quite the opposite:
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
"It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living."
1
People like you keep saying this but none of you ever have any proof to back this up with. It's time to give it a rest.
1
Sounds like FDR may have been referring to "men in overalls" being skilled labor, not necessarily part-time student workers.
Also, no one seems at all concerned about the ripple effect on the prices of consumer goods for the elderly, and anyone else on fixed incomes.
Also, no one seems at all concerned about the ripple effect on the prices of consumer goods for the elderly, and anyone else on fixed incomes.
1
$15 per hour is the equivalent of $7.50 per hour in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, the Dakotas, Colorado, Nebraska....
California's economy is based on the economics of Hollywood and Silicon Valley: fantasy and virtual reality where $4 per gallon gasoline is cheap and $2000 per month rents you a 400 s.f. studio apartment. For this, of course, you get drought, alien invasions, 1984-style government, and the LA Lakers getting to pick second.
California's economy is based on the economics of Hollywood and Silicon Valley: fantasy and virtual reality where $4 per gallon gasoline is cheap and $2000 per month rents you a 400 s.f. studio apartment. For this, of course, you get drought, alien invasions, 1984-style government, and the LA Lakers getting to pick second.
3
Can you imagine a person now making $7.00 an hour thing ahead,wow in five years I'll be making $15.00 per hour. What a sham. Get that increase in place NOW. Create a little inflation by attacking the McDonald's et all to raise their costs and pricing accordingly.
1
This is definitely a win-win situation. For all those naysayers, remember that a higher minimum wage will mean fewer families will need government programs like food stamps and medicaid for basic human needs like adequate nutrition and health care. They may even have some disposable income left, which will be an additional economic benefit. As taxpayers we are subsidizing giant corporations by allowing them to keep their employees in poverty. What's missing is correlating tax rates on the CEOs and investors who rake in millions each year without paying their fair share.
3
It’s not a “win-win”situation at all.A higher minimum wage does not mean that those who are currently employed at minimum wage will be paid $15 an hour,and that “fewer families will need government programs like food stamps and medicaid.”
The result may well be that far more individuals will need government programs such as food stamps and medicaid,increasing the cost to taxpayers,rather than decreasing it,as you seem to believe.
In fact,this legislation guarantees that many of those workers will become $0 an hour workers, as companies flee L.A,
Newsflash :This affects small business owners who are struggling to stay in business as it is,The “C.E.O.s” of Mom and Pop business are not making millions a year.
I know,because I represent the 4th generation of a family business that was founded in the early 1900s that is being forced out of business due to the inability to compete with those manufacturing in China.
There will be no 5th generation of this family business that employed a 100 well paid union workers ,who had full medical benefits,and even pensions.
The eldest of the fifth generation commenced Law School with a 10 month old and 2 year old. She graduated and passed the New York State Bar exam, in 2 an a half years. She won’t be employing any minimum wage workers at $15 an hour.
She’ll be lucky if SHE can find a job that pays $15 an hour.,as an attorney.
The result may well be that far more individuals will need government programs such as food stamps and medicaid,increasing the cost to taxpayers,rather than decreasing it,as you seem to believe.
In fact,this legislation guarantees that many of those workers will become $0 an hour workers, as companies flee L.A,
Newsflash :This affects small business owners who are struggling to stay in business as it is,The “C.E.O.s” of Mom and Pop business are not making millions a year.
I know,because I represent the 4th generation of a family business that was founded in the early 1900s that is being forced out of business due to the inability to compete with those manufacturing in China.
There will be no 5th generation of this family business that employed a 100 well paid union workers ,who had full medical benefits,and even pensions.
The eldest of the fifth generation commenced Law School with a 10 month old and 2 year old. She graduated and passed the New York State Bar exam, in 2 an a half years. She won’t be employing any minimum wage workers at $15 an hour.
She’ll be lucky if SHE can find a job that pays $15 an hour.,as an attorney.
1
A higher minimum wage is a virtual guarantee that ALL goods and services will be more expensive for everyone, including those who are employed at minimum wage. Not only will those families will STILL be in need of government programs, but there will be more families in that situation when a higher minimum wage results in fewer available jobs.
PLEASE think this all the way through!
PLEASE think this all the way through!
If I thought a raise in the minimum wage to $15 or to $20 or any other number could truly produce the "progressive" utopian dream described, I would gladly pay more for products produced in the U.S.
The only thing "progressive" about a raise in the minimum wage is that it will progressively raise the federal government's definition of the poverty level in the area affected to three dollars an hour over whatever the minimum wage becomes.
The only thing a raise in Los Angeles' minimum wage will achive will be to ease the minds of Bently driving LALA "progressives," who think they've done their part by having "good intentions." Living life in LA as a bumper sticker baby!
The only thing "progressive" about a raise in the minimum wage is that it will progressively raise the federal government's definition of the poverty level in the area affected to three dollars an hour over whatever the minimum wage becomes.
The only thing a raise in Los Angeles' minimum wage will achive will be to ease the minds of Bently driving LALA "progressives," who think they've done their part by having "good intentions." Living life in LA as a bumper sticker baby!
1
Politicians always make things sound good without ever considering the unintended consequences. Why do we allow them to do the thinking for us? The reason is because over they years they have convinced many that they really are smarter then we are and know what's best for us. As long as we do this, we will live in a depressed economy. If they think $15 an hour is a living wage then why not have a really living wage and make it $50 an hour. You can surely live better on $50 an hour than a measly old $15. Ah what the hay, make it a $100 per hour
2
Do it now waiting five years only changes the wage not the dynamics. it is a slap in the face of reality people can't live on 15 dollars an hour now.
It's time for equity profiles to add a metric that represents the ratio of total employees at or near the minimum wage. I as an investor would steer clear of any business that is highly susceptible to wage attacks. I would do this not for social justice but because I like earning rather than losing money. Investors chase profits not social justice.
Is that statement good enough for the NYT to post or will it find it's way into the moderator's trash bin?
Is that statement good enough for the NYT to post or will it find it's way into the moderator's trash bin?
1
That right Doody:
Investors behave as if they are not human until they get hurt, then they demand to be bailed out.
Investors behave as if they are not human until they get hurt, then they demand to be bailed out.
1
Los Angeles decision to raise minimum wages to $15 is a victory for the common working man.
The domino effect of this wise decision will spread to all of US in the near future.
The fear of an economic collapse & business shutting is far fetched & without basis.
The ripple effect of this bold decision will spread around the world raising the quality of the workers life.
Salutations to the wise & bold decision makers in Los Angeles.
The domino effect of this wise decision will spread to all of US in the near future.
The fear of an economic collapse & business shutting is far fetched & without basis.
The ripple effect of this bold decision will spread around the world raising the quality of the workers life.
Salutations to the wise & bold decision makers in Los Angeles.
3
And the ignorant people continue to be fooled. $15/hour five years from now? The cost of living will be much higher than it is now, so at that time, in 2020, $15/hour will be the equivalent of $9/hour in today's dollars.
3
I look at this issue the way I've begun to look at so many of the issues that divide us: We are in a struggle between neoliberal capitalism, which puts free markets and the quest for profit above all else, and regulated capitalism, which raises the greater good to a place at least on par with profit. I don't know how the struggle will end. Some say revolution is the logical result. Whatever the case, it seems as if the city councils of our biggest cities may become centers of insurgency and leaders in the struggle.
3
14 to 1 Minimum wage passed! Get rid of the 1 who voted NO...Nuff said?
1
And the incentive to automate intensifies.
9
To tatrhead from Cincinnati:
And what are you adding here? So, if we agree to eat only a little bit everyday and live in a cardboard house will that stop the development of automation ?
And what are you adding here? So, if we agree to eat only a little bit everyday and live in a cardboard house will that stop the development of automation ?
1
The article states "...A wage increase to $12 an hour over the next few years would achieve about the same purchasing power as the minimum wage in the late 1960s, the most recent peak."
So basically, workers in 2017 will get the same minimum wage as was being given to workers almost 50 YEARS AGO!
And only from 2018 onwards will be earning more an hour than workers were earning 50 years ago!
This is the fact to the reality NOW.
Also the headline of this story is inaccurate and should read: " Los Angeles will Lift Its Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour by 2020"
It is both ingenious and shameful that this victory is even seen as such as it is only righting a wrong that has been allowed to happen and continue for almost half a century!
So basically, workers in 2017 will get the same minimum wage as was being given to workers almost 50 YEARS AGO!
And only from 2018 onwards will be earning more an hour than workers were earning 50 years ago!
This is the fact to the reality NOW.
Also the headline of this story is inaccurate and should read: " Los Angeles will Lift Its Minimum Wage to $15 an Hour by 2020"
It is both ingenious and shameful that this victory is even seen as such as it is only righting a wrong that has been allowed to happen and continue for almost half a century!
2
It has not even happened yet.
1
Increasing the minimum wage is a poorly conceived and poorly targeted way to correct pay inequity. Before people will benefit from it they will need to have a job, but increasing the cost of labor will only force companies to cut corners by increasing workplace efficiency and demanding greater job productivity. As a result workers will lose their jobs and those who don't will have to work harder for their money. Also, there will be a loss of more manufacturing jobs which will be shipped abroad. The customer will also lose out because the additional cost of labor will be made up for by higher prices. Increasing the minimum wage is also poorly targeted because it will make jobs currently held by the poor more attractive to middle class teenagers and retirees who will displace them. It also unfairly targets service companies and retailers and lets companies that use cheaper foreign labor off the hook. The economic law of supply and demand cannot be avoided. A better way to help the American worker is to decrease worker supply. This means discouraging illegal immigration and/or restricting the import of goods and products made by cheaper labor abroad.
3
$15/hour only nets you $31,200/year which still isn't enough to sustain any meaningful quality of life - let alone add in 5-7 children. Minimum wage jobs are meant to be a holding place for young workers while they are in school not for adults looking to support a family.
6
Then don't have 5-7 children. No one told you to be Brangelina when you can't afford to be one. Employers don't have trees that bear dollars. So this is what is going to happen: there will be shortage of jobs, and employers are not going to hire even if they can just to compensate their profits.
The other problem with Americans is they don't know to save - learn from the Germans. They keep nearly 70% of what an American earns for the some salary (due to taxation), yet they have more savings in their banks.
The other problem with Americans is they don't know to save - learn from the Germans. They keep nearly 70% of what an American earns for the some salary (due to taxation), yet they have more savings in their banks.
6
No offense, but this is becoming a stupid comment....
In past years, teens and those who needed pocket money relied on these types of jobs and they were plentiful because those that needed to support families would go to factories and get good paying work. Now that those family sustaining jobs have evaporated, these jobs that were for pocket money have become jobs that families rely on to survive.
Is that really a concept that's so difficult to understand? Belittling people has become a sport. Life changes, situations change. The role of the service industry job has changed. The sooner people acknowledge this and demand that that people ringing up their purchases and stocking shelves deserve better than a cardboard box and food stamps, we'll all be a lot better off.
In past years, teens and those who needed pocket money relied on these types of jobs and they were plentiful because those that needed to support families would go to factories and get good paying work. Now that those family sustaining jobs have evaporated, these jobs that were for pocket money have become jobs that families rely on to survive.
Is that really a concept that's so difficult to understand? Belittling people has become a sport. Life changes, situations change. The role of the service industry job has changed. The sooner people acknowledge this and demand that that people ringing up their purchases and stocking shelves deserve better than a cardboard box and food stamps, we'll all be a lot better off.
1
Yet 42% of the entire American Labor force earn minimum wage or LESS
What they were meant to be and what they are is the reason for so much and many of the problems facing the U.S today.
What they were meant to be and what they are is the reason for so much and many of the problems facing the U.S today.
1
Oops, just got a little further from competing with China. Guess we won't be getting those "manufacturing is coming back" speeches any time soon.
3
Ha. I must be getting old. I remember a time when we used to strive to have the highest income levels in the world. Now we're competing to be the best provider of cheap labor with the bottom-dwellers of the world. Third World, here we come!
1
Can you live on $15/hr? You'd be lucky if you could afford to pay for Chinese goods.
http://www.attn.com/stories/1349/6-biggest-myths-about-raising-minimum-wage
http://launionaflcio.org/brochure/moremoneypamphlet/Economic%20Roundtabl...
http://www.attn.com/stories/1349/6-biggest-myths-about-raising-minimum-wage
http://launionaflcio.org/brochure/moremoneypamphlet/Economic%20Roundtabl...
The entire country benefits from an affordable, living wage. When people and families can afford the basic necessities of life, it is like a tide that lifts all up and has a profound effect on the overall economy. The selfish belief of every man for himself is the antithesis if a decent civilization.
9
Exactly, all people are asking for is to be allowed off food stamps, welfare, and any other govt. program that the culture with it's starvation wages, forces decent working citizens to humiliate themselves by accepting. Stop underwriting corporate profits by bleeding out the poor. Pay up, please.
1
Clyde, if you are "affording the basic necessities of life" based on MY income, it doesn't help anyone because, eventually, I will either quit "helping" or become a parasite, too. As to the wage...if I were the employer being told I had to pay $15 an hour...I'd move my shop to where I could actually run my shop without interference from the Socialists. Business owners do not have an obligation to help anyone else. If they choose to help, and many if not most do, then that their decision. The minute you force them to do so, however, human nature itself will cause many to rebel against the attempt at control. Your view is a "moral" view, and does not take into account how people DO think.
People shouldn't have families if the best they can do in life is a fast food job.
1
Problem solved! I am relieved to see this important change approved. For too long voices have called for higher wages as the necessary fix for much of what ails the failing country. Now we will better understand what this fixes and what it doesn't.
2
Already been tried in several localities, and failed in every one. Seattle...jobs leaving by the hundreds. Oregon? Same. You are correct, we will "better understand what this fixes and what it doesn't." Like any experiment, when you see it replicated time and time again, the SMART person figures out that it doesn't make sense to keep doing it if it doesn't get what you would like. The liberal, on the other hand, keeps wringing their hands wondering "what went wrong?" Then, they try it all over again, expecting a different result. (sound familiar?)
1967 min wage was $1.60/hr
1967 median home price was $17,000
You had to work about 10,000 hours to buy the house (no taxes figured))
2015 min wage $15.00/hr (?)
2015 median home price = $300,000
You have to work 20,000 hours to buy a median priced home
Or you work the same 10,000 hours and get HALF a median priced house.
Just saying ...
1967 median home price was $17,000
You had to work about 10,000 hours to buy the house (no taxes figured))
2015 min wage $15.00/hr (?)
2015 median home price = $300,000
You have to work 20,000 hours to buy a median priced home
Or you work the same 10,000 hours and get HALF a median priced house.
Just saying ...
4
More low equity, subprime loans leads to more buyers. More buyers leads to increased competition and upwards price pressure.
Just saying...
Just saying...
Congrats on raising the cost of living for those that can least afford it.
6
Depressing to think that this paltry increase that will take effect over a five year period is considered momentous. As others have pointed out here, by the time they are earning $15 an hour, the affected workers will be unlikely to notice any improvement in their living standards. This in the world's largest economy and richest nation is nothing to celebrate; indeed it is shameful.
8
what we Aussies pay makes us one of the most equal countries in the world in terms of the difference between the highest paid and the lowest paid. It also makes us the Wealthiest people on earth based on a per capita median measure with each Australian with Median per capita wealth of US$220,000 versus US$47,000 for an American. (Credit Suisse World wealth report 2012,2013,2014)
I guess the concept and reality of more Americans being more wealthy, prosperous and secure just isn't worth the extra dollars an hour you refuse to pay them ...says a lot about the Core values of America doesn't it?
I guess the concept and reality of more Americans being more wealthy, prosperous and secure just isn't worth the extra dollars an hour you refuse to pay them ...says a lot about the Core values of America doesn't it?
1
That's right. Here in America we have the freedom to shower disdain on our lower classes. It's the American thing to do, after all. I got mine, you know what you can do!
Never mind that these "burger flippers" keep our fat bottoms from having to cook our meals, make our own beds, empty our trash bins. Never mind that they're an integral part of the technological society we live in. Never mind that in real dollars what we pay to our lowest-paid workers in much of the country today would be decried as substandard 20 or 30 years ago. It's a different America now.
Never mind that these "burger flippers" keep our fat bottoms from having to cook our meals, make our own beds, empty our trash bins. Never mind that they're an integral part of the technological society we live in. Never mind that in real dollars what we pay to our lowest-paid workers in much of the country today would be decried as substandard 20 or 30 years ago. It's a different America now.
"each Australian with Median per capita wealth of US$220,000 versus US$47,000 for an American."
Come on. You have to realize that's an absurd - and easily disprovable - figure.
Come on. You have to realize that's an absurd - and easily disprovable - figure.
1
Minimum wage laws, like any of the 'Great Society' programs, like the new 'Affordable Health Act' in certain of its effects, like any kind of subsidies, serve only to destroy a nation. That's because they tend to destroy any motive to do a better job for the money a person, or a company, or a healthcare unit, receives.
When a person gets something for free, why should that person strive to do any better, to do more, to do any more for what they get? There is no motive then to gain skills either, no motive to work so as to get a raise, to get advancement at a company, or to move on to a better job.
So also, as one class, say that of the group of people at or below 'poverty level', is given in effect, free money, that causes everyone else to get hurt in terms of higher prices, lowered rate of productivity and economical improvement, and especially all the other people EXCEPT the very richest, who aren't affected. And today, it's either the wealth from the 1%, or the political influence from those at or below poverty level, who get the media attention, and thus the votes, and who as a result continue to cause this nation's decline into total ruination.
When a person gets something for free, why should that person strive to do any better, to do more, to do any more for what they get? There is no motive then to gain skills either, no motive to work so as to get a raise, to get advancement at a company, or to move on to a better job.
So also, as one class, say that of the group of people at or below 'poverty level', is given in effect, free money, that causes everyone else to get hurt in terms of higher prices, lowered rate of productivity and economical improvement, and especially all the other people EXCEPT the very richest, who aren't affected. And today, it's either the wealth from the 1%, or the political influence from those at or below poverty level, who get the media attention, and thus the votes, and who as a result continue to cause this nation's decline into total ruination.
9
Horse hockey. A $15 minimum wage will allow millions to live better lives, improve the local economy, benefit other workers and businesses by increased sales, and the only ones who may feel a pinch are the large corporations (McDonald's, Walmart, etc.) and their investors. Your argument is valid only if your one of those corporation's spokespersons, or a member of the 1%ers.
1
Interesting comment. You must favor a hefty estate tax.
2
A minimum wage that is yet to equal (not until 2017) that which it was 50 years ago is proof alone that your argument is completely invalid.
Do you honestly believe that ALL those on minimum wage now and for the last 50 years have deserved LESS than those who were on it on 1968?
As is Fact.
Do you honestly believe that ALL those on minimum wage now and for the last 50 years have deserved LESS than those who were on it on 1968?
As is Fact.
1
Isn't it really a question of the value of the labor being provided? If the cost of labor now being provided at $9 and hour (and valued at $9 an hour) is artificially increased to $15, that differential has to be taken into account somewhere.
In a complex system that will mean the differential will be adsorbed in many different ways, including, but not limited to, some businesses moving, some businesses reducing employment, businesses that are able to do so increasing prices, other workers whose labor was valued at $15 an hour demanding more for their services, inflation, consumers adjusting their buying habits, etc, etc. The totality of the adjustments are just too numerous to mention, and not all will apply equally, until a new equilibrium is reached.
Communism was a very interesting experiment, but we know now that managed economies just do not work. This too will be an interesting experiment, but it tends to ignore that government cannot create value by fiat. It might be better if government tried to create opportunity.
In a complex system that will mean the differential will be adsorbed in many different ways, including, but not limited to, some businesses moving, some businesses reducing employment, businesses that are able to do so increasing prices, other workers whose labor was valued at $15 an hour demanding more for their services, inflation, consumers adjusting their buying habits, etc, etc. The totality of the adjustments are just too numerous to mention, and not all will apply equally, until a new equilibrium is reached.
Communism was a very interesting experiment, but we know now that managed economies just do not work. This too will be an interesting experiment, but it tends to ignore that government cannot create value by fiat. It might be better if government tried to create opportunity.
6
You assume the value is not valid above what is currently paid even though in 1968 it was valid at $12 an hour. To suggest that 50 years later it is not even worth 75% of what it was 50 years ago is where your assumptions are completely misplaced and inaccurate , especially when compared to Productivity increases which if wages were to increase in line with productivity gains, the minimum wage should be over $20 an hour.
Do not mistake Business robbing people of rightful reward for greater personal gain as "the Market" and economic reality.
It is neither of these.
Do not mistake Business robbing people of rightful reward for greater personal gain as "the Market" and economic reality.
It is neither of these.
WHAT COMMUNISM? You would need to be severely delusional to think there is communism anywhere in this country. Read the article and the comments. It has been pointed out here and in many other places through the years that workers are paid by the same McDonalds and clones $20 to $22 dollars an hour in moderate capitalist countries such as Germany, Denmark, Finland, Sweeden, Norway, and others. Stop lying. There is no excuse to pay people hunger salaries, which then demand of them to have to obtain food stamps and public housing for subsistence.
The Federal Government should set the salary levels for every person in the US. We will never reach Pres Obama's dream of redistribution of wealth until we eliminate the ownership of private property. We should all have the same things in life and the Federal Government must regulate that no one person has an advantage in money or housing.
5
I assume this is a joke. The USSR tried this and look what happened.
3
You're right, and if we follow your advice, everyone will have nothing.
3
The $15 minimum wage worker is a totally different person than the $9 minimum wage worker. When companies start trying to get more with less because they have to pay $15 per hour, all of a sudden out come the recent retired professionals, stay at home educated moms that will work 2-3 days a week for $15, college grads in transition. Unfortunately the recent immigrant, lazy worker that got fired twice last year, and the generally uneducated, unskilled, inexperienced $9 guys will be replaced by this better crop of candidates. Not sure who we just helped.
7
A very good insight. Who have we helped? Only those people who want to get a warm and fuzzy feeling and to boast how they have helped the downtrodden.
2
Who have you helped?
The entire Country.
The entire Country.
End tip culture. The average waitress makes $12.57 in tips per hour. And in CA these tips are NOT calculated towards the minimum wage. Such a law would have waittress making $27.57 an hour. Which is equivalent to $53,186/yr. All I'm saying is don't make us feel guilty now if we don't want to tip 10-20% every time.
3
The lone councilman who voted against the bill — a Republican — did not speak during Tuesday’s meeting. Why not? Why was he against it? What does he make per hour or year? Over $100K
1
Some people have calculators and know how to use them.
1
Great point...he should be run from office for his views...this 1%ers assets should be seized and redistributed to those of a similar ideology.
Having minimum wage laws is a sign a civilization doesn't know what it is doing anymore. And it is an indication the dismal science of economics is serving a purpose that takes civilization a step backwards. It is conceding to the grossest of desires, and thus is the opposite effect from uplifting us to a higher form of humanity. Workers should not exist in simply serving themselves, nor businesses, mainly just in making profits. So politics is utterly misdirected when it leads to government serving these totally wrong ways, easy paths of temptation, versus ways that reflect any probity or right kind of purpose, at all, for meaning as human beings.
When the secular state works against so many of the principles, tenets, and commandments brought down by the great religions, it means a nation has fallen through its cracks already.
Businesses should strive to sell the right things, and not sell in greater quantity, as if greater profit, brought about by degrading peoples' ability even to know and decide what is good for them anymore.
This is the very bad thing about a nation fallen into such materialism.
People get totally misled by forces in society that overwhelm any thing anymore that could save them from what amounts to mindlessness, the idea of 'keeping up with the Jones'es', that is a world apart from living a life with any possibility of a higher purpose than that.
The public, as either workers or consumers, should not stand for this.
When the secular state works against so many of the principles, tenets, and commandments brought down by the great religions, it means a nation has fallen through its cracks already.
Businesses should strive to sell the right things, and not sell in greater quantity, as if greater profit, brought about by degrading peoples' ability even to know and decide what is good for them anymore.
This is the very bad thing about a nation fallen into such materialism.
People get totally misled by forces in society that overwhelm any thing anymore that could save them from what amounts to mindlessness, the idea of 'keeping up with the Jones'es', that is a world apart from living a life with any possibility of a higher purpose than that.
The public, as either workers or consumers, should not stand for this.
And exactly how should non-materialistic economics work?
You're right! We should put children back in the work force! Get rid of OSHA so they can run heavy machinery! Heck, let people offer themselves up as slaves for room and board, why not? Bring back slavery, yessir, that's economic perfection. After all, every business owner has a (Protestant) God given right to make profit, regardless of who dies in the process.
Yessir, I see a return to economic fundamentals.
Yessir, I see a return to economic fundamentals.
A victory for justice and decency. It seems the news that slavery in America is over (in some parts anyway) has filtered through to the authorities in Los Angeles. Great News!! I hope that $15 per hour is just a start.
3
Smoke and mirrors artificial wages. More money for the untrained and less for the entrepreneurs and risk takers. We will see what happens to the cost of living, cost of doing business, and general economy in LA.
3
So, lemme get this straight: the entrepreneurs and risk takers actually deserve all of the money, right? They don't get enough already?
Hey, I am a risk taker. I create hundreds of jobs. What happens if I want a hamburger in LA at 3 in the afternoon? One of the slaves should bring it to me because, you know, I deserve it?
Hey, I am a risk taker. I create hundreds of jobs. What happens if I want a hamburger in LA at 3 in the afternoon? One of the slaves should bring it to me because, you know, I deserve it?
4
Not all the money Doug. However, those that do not prepare themselves for success, take risk, do not deserve the lions share. Remember the story of the Little Red Hen. By the way, I project that that late afternoon hamburger may cost you a lot more in LA for the "slave" to make it and retrieve it to you at the counter.
Interesting. If all hours worked in America in 2014 at a rate of $15 per hour or less had been compensated at $15 per hour, what would the effect have been I wonder.
Some back-of-the-envelop calculations. The American workforce numbers about 157.0 million. According to Fortune magazine, 42% of the American workforce (approx 65.9 million) earn less than $15 per hour. Unfortunately Fortune doesn't tell us the average wage of those earning less than $15, but if the average wage is $10, an increase to $15 would represent a labor cost increase of $606.7 billion per year, assuming the same work was available at the higher cost as was available at the lower cost.
This also assumes that all wages below $15 per hour could simply be raised to $15 per hour, but in a workplace where some people earn $10 per hour, some earn $12 and some earn $15, if the $10 workers are increased to $15 the $12 workers will have to be increased to at least $17, etc, the entire wage scale will have to shift upwards. So the annual cost might be $1.0 trillion instead of $606 billion.
And where would this cost increase fall? Restaurants, retailers and other labor intensive service industries, that is where. Can these industries bear these costs? Would these businesses be able to continue to do the volumes they now do with these higher costs? Would they continue to employ the people they employ?
This is a lovely idea, but it ain't going to work.
Some back-of-the-envelop calculations. The American workforce numbers about 157.0 million. According to Fortune magazine, 42% of the American workforce (approx 65.9 million) earn less than $15 per hour. Unfortunately Fortune doesn't tell us the average wage of those earning less than $15, but if the average wage is $10, an increase to $15 would represent a labor cost increase of $606.7 billion per year, assuming the same work was available at the higher cost as was available at the lower cost.
This also assumes that all wages below $15 per hour could simply be raised to $15 per hour, but in a workplace where some people earn $10 per hour, some earn $12 and some earn $15, if the $10 workers are increased to $15 the $12 workers will have to be increased to at least $17, etc, the entire wage scale will have to shift upwards. So the annual cost might be $1.0 trillion instead of $606 billion.
And where would this cost increase fall? Restaurants, retailers and other labor intensive service industries, that is where. Can these industries bear these costs? Would these businesses be able to continue to do the volumes they now do with these higher costs? Would they continue to employ the people they employ?
This is a lovely idea, but it ain't going to work.
5
In 1968 when the Minimum wage was equal to $12 it worked.
Why 50 years later, do you think that raising a minimum wage that is 30% BELOW that of 50 years ago to equal what it was...won't work?
Why 50 years later, do you think that raising a minimum wage that is 30% BELOW that of 50 years ago to equal what it was...won't work?
It works in Australia where we are per capita on a median measure the richest people on Earth.
Where we have a more equal economy and society and less poor per capita than America.
Where 4 weeks paid Holidays, 10 days Paid sick leave, 10 weeks paid Maternity Leave are MANDATORY.
McDonald's Australia made made more Profit in % terms than any other McDonalds Region in the world in 2014 with the above benefits AND a minimum wage of US$18 an hour.
IT WORKS.
Where we have a more equal economy and society and less poor per capita than America.
Where 4 weeks paid Holidays, 10 days Paid sick leave, 10 weeks paid Maternity Leave are MANDATORY.
McDonald's Australia made made more Profit in % terms than any other McDonalds Region in the world in 2014 with the above benefits AND a minimum wage of US$18 an hour.
IT WORKS.
Nice thought - but won't this drive the cost of living higher for evryone - and most painfully for those at the bottom rung? The real key to higher wages is a robust manufacturing industry which is able to export the cost of the higher wages to foreign buyers. That's how Germany avoids home inflation while raising the living standards of its citizens.
3
Why would it? Do doctors and bus drivers make minimum wage, thus driving up the cost of living for low wage workers?
1
If there was real honesty about finding the truth, the legislators would ask all business that close due to the extraordinarily elevated cost of labor due to the increases to report their reasons for raising prices and or closing their doors. Do you think the politicians pushing for this would allow that to be reported and publicly disclosed? Highly doubtful, because we aren't looking for the truth, are they?
2
By 2020?! $15 in 2020 would be worth about as much as $9 is worth right now! Yeah, I know the inflation rate is not that high, but come on, why not have this increase by 2016 instead?
5
Obviously, you have never run a small business. Margins are small and kept small because customers are always searching for the lowest possible price. If one cannot raise prices (the current economic environment) and labor costs suddenly increase, you have two options: 1. Layoff people and demand higher productivity from those remaining. 2. Move to a lower labor cost area.
1
Faulty reasoning. Unless the laws are not enforced uniformly, all of your competitors will face the same situation you do. If you raise your prices 5% now, before the pay raise takes effect, you will lose customers to your competitors. If ALL suppliers raise their prices 5% after the pay raise however, it's a different story.
Just because you live on a tight margin - let's say 2% - doesn't mean that a new law that raises your costs by more than the margin will put you out of business.
This is Econ 101. For example, outside of government price fixes in agriculture, the price for commodities (e.g. corn) *always* finds the level at which the profit margin is paper-thin, just like water seeking its own level. Added regulation on, e.g. safety of the food supply, does absolutely NOTHING to change the margins - something farmers don't seem to understand.
Same thing here.
Just because you live on a tight margin - let's say 2% - doesn't mean that a new law that raises your costs by more than the margin will put you out of business.
This is Econ 101. For example, outside of government price fixes in agriculture, the price for commodities (e.g. corn) *always* finds the level at which the profit margin is paper-thin, just like water seeking its own level. Added regulation on, e.g. safety of the food supply, does absolutely NOTHING to change the margins - something farmers don't seem to understand.
Same thing here.
The middle class is the byproduct of a free market economy; it is not manufactured by a politician's tax gimmicks, minimum wage laws, or government redistribution of wealth.
There is no such thing as a living wage; there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay. You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have government tailor your wage around your living.
Any increase in the minimum wage would only be a temporary relief to some as jobs, other wages and prices re-balance around the increase.
It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.
It is not about what people deserve or what is fair or what is just; it is about what the market will bear. Blame the consumer for shopping for the lowest price and blame the voter for voting for government to fix their problems.
There is no such thing as a living wage; there is only a wage that someone can afford to pay. You have to tailor your living around your wage, not have government tailor your wage around your living.
Any increase in the minimum wage would only be a temporary relief to some as jobs, other wages and prices re-balance around the increase.
It is about supply and demand. If you have an easy time filling your employee needs, you offer lower wages, if you have a hard time filling your employee needs, you offer higher wages; because if you do not your competition will and you will be out of business.
It is not about what people deserve or what is fair or what is just; it is about what the market will bear. Blame the consumer for shopping for the lowest price and blame the voter for voting for government to fix their problems.
5
You admit that our economic system is neither fair nor just!
Are you an economic Darwinian?
Are you an economic Darwinian?
There are many people employed right at the minimum wage. If the minimum wage was $1 lower they would be paid $1 less, if it was $1 higher, they would be paid $1 more. Supply and demand would not be a factor, margins would adjust, the world would not end. An increase in the minimum wage to $15 per hour would be a different matter however. It is perhaps not going too far to say that it is irresponsible to commit to such an increase over a 4 or 5 year period without seeing the impact of the increases in the early years. The result could be to harm the people they are trying to help.
I think we need to take a step back here. Imagine if you set up a company and decided to pay your workers minimum wage so you can make as much money as possible for you and your friends. So much money that you don't know what to do with it all. How fundamentally callous is that? Lets stop talking economics, and start finding pleasure in sharing the profits.
2
Profits are shared with stock holders, people who co-invest in a business. Payroll is for those who invest the time they wish and who are free to leave at any time for wherever they think is more munificent.
Whenever you have any policy, there is always a risk as well as the reality of companies trying to game the policy. The risk here is low. LA is a huge city. The businesses aren't going to abandon it. Additionally, the societal improvement more than warrants the risk. Basically, it's worth the risk.
It would be real awesome though if they provided these increased minimum wages to people who are actually authorized to work in our country.
It would be real awesome though if they provided these increased minimum wages to people who are actually authorized to work in our country.
I'm confused. By 2020? What's wrong with 2016? Or 2017 at worst. If you're gunna do it, do it now.
4
Franchises dont need to leave they simpily need to eliminate workforce and automate those jobs to near 100% of the business. Problem solved. this is the reality of business in these cities now. best enjoy your empty victory now cause your not going to have a job for long. Look to seattle for prime example. Many companies did leave, many more are laying off people and removing benifits or perks to being employeed for that $15 wage, and all the while the cost of living is STILL rising even faster now then before. Congradulations all you did was ensure more people will be no longer counted as employable by this arrogant liberal government.
3
Name one company that has left Seattle since our $15/hr min. wage was passed. I am not aware of any.
And our cost of living is now rising? My expenses haven't changed.
And our cost of living is now rising? My expenses haven't changed.
3
MANY LOS ANGELES WORKERS MAY HAVE KNOWINGLY JUST FIRED THEMSELVES. I can tell you from an Apparel manufacturing perspective in Los Angeles, this increase is bad. I'm a huge proponent of keeping our manufacturing here in the USA, and I've worked really hard to do that with my business.... however, I will say the pressures to meet certain price points by the retail buyers who purchase my goods are almost unattainable at current labor rates, let alone an increase of this scale. Yes, Los Angeles apparel manufacturing workers just got a pay raise, but at the same time they might have just cut their own throats from an employment perspective. I'm pretty certain myself and many other business owners will have to shift manufacturing work to another city where labor rates allow us to stay competitive in this global marketplace. Just because we raise rates doesn't mean retailers will buy our products at higher prices, especially when they can get a comparable good for a lower price next door (or from another country). So in turn, Los Angles may have just lost some forms of employment.... It will just be a slow death because the labor rates are broken up over a multi-year time frame. I'm sure I am not the only employer in our industry with similar thoughts. Just sharing another perspective.
6
Another way to interpret this, Tom, is that employers won't be able to exploit low wage workers anymore. I can understand why you're having trouble with that, though. But it is something to celebrate. And it's a trend that's going to ripple across the country. Adjustments will be made as the effects settle. But now the tables are turning. Finally.
3
I cannot speak on behalf of your company, as I'm sure this isn't the case for all apparel manufacturers. However there are countless research studies and undercover investigations that have proven that the majority of employees at apparel factories in LA are undocumented and work for well under the current minimum wage.
I realize this is in large part due to the garment industry's need to compete for business, and the consumer demand for cheap clothing. And I agree that the result likely could be further outsourcing to countries who do not have the same labor laws that the US does, or who ignore them more than the US.
Yet, it's a systematic problem that I think needs a different approach, and unfortunately I don't know what the solution would be. But underpaying laborers, undocumented or not, is not only unjust, it is illegal by many international rights bodies, most notably the International Labor Organization.
I realize this is in large part due to the garment industry's need to compete for business, and the consumer demand for cheap clothing. And I agree that the result likely could be further outsourcing to countries who do not have the same labor laws that the US does, or who ignore them more than the US.
Yet, it's a systematic problem that I think needs a different approach, and unfortunately I don't know what the solution would be. But underpaying laborers, undocumented or not, is not only unjust, it is illegal by many international rights bodies, most notably the International Labor Organization.
2
There's no exploitation here. Some people just have a hard time understanding that certain employees are only worth $9/hr.
How can we expect an economic system to last if a worker can be employed full time and not be able to meet their basic needs of clothing, shelter, health and nutrition?
9
A worker who has increased his/her needs by having children they can't afford and spending more on nonessentials doesn't rate an increase in earnings from those indicators. If you need more money you improve yourself and your worth to the marketplace and move on and leave the minimum wage jobs to those who are starting out unencumbered.
A person can be trained to make tacos in a day and gets what that investment is worth. Electronic technicians take years to produce and are thus paid a lot more because the investment is higher. The market place will weed out the incompetent and poorly motivated. A person worth having at $9 may not be worth $15 and will be replaced by someone more fit. Business owners know that but politicians don't.
A person can be trained to make tacos in a day and gets what that investment is worth. Electronic technicians take years to produce and are thus paid a lot more because the investment is higher. The market place will weed out the incompetent and poorly motivated. A person worth having at $9 may not be worth $15 and will be replaced by someone more fit. Business owners know that but politicians don't.
1
Natural selection. Those without the skill to provide for a family are being given a leg up to reproduce and therefore passing down genes that cause their offspring to be just as deficient.
1
On paper this is great but in the real world it stinks.
When the minimum wages go up then someone who was earning more than the minimum will want more..
With this increase someone making 9 now will make 15.
What happens to someone who was making 15 .
Those people deserve more than the ones who were making 9 and will justifiably want the same increase.
Eventually everyone will get this increase.
The economy can't take that.
You can't justify a wage increase because people can't live on what they are being paid.
People are paid for the labor they provide
If that labor is worth 9 dollars than by telling someone to pay 15 you are telling them to pay more than the labor is worth.
That's stealing.
No one will stand for that.
Businesses will close and people will be fired or laid off.
When this happens the tax revenue these businesses generated won't be collected.
This is what happened in Detroit when businesses couldn't make a profit
and had to close.
If we increase the price of labor then how will businesses here compete
with businesses from other countries.
They won't.
That why jobs that can be done here are being done elsewhere.
These businesses pay taxes and provide services that are needed to the public.
When that restaurant on the corner closes than not only are people unemployed the city won't collect the taxes these businesses would pay.
This is what happened in Detroit when businesses
When the minimum wages go up then someone who was earning more than the minimum will want more..
With this increase someone making 9 now will make 15.
What happens to someone who was making 15 .
Those people deserve more than the ones who were making 9 and will justifiably want the same increase.
Eventually everyone will get this increase.
The economy can't take that.
You can't justify a wage increase because people can't live on what they are being paid.
People are paid for the labor they provide
If that labor is worth 9 dollars than by telling someone to pay 15 you are telling them to pay more than the labor is worth.
That's stealing.
No one will stand for that.
Businesses will close and people will be fired or laid off.
When this happens the tax revenue these businesses generated won't be collected.
This is what happened in Detroit when businesses couldn't make a profit
and had to close.
If we increase the price of labor then how will businesses here compete
with businesses from other countries.
They won't.
That why jobs that can be done here are being done elsewhere.
These businesses pay taxes and provide services that are needed to the public.
When that restaurant on the corner closes than not only are people unemployed the city won't collect the taxes these businesses would pay.
This is what happened in Detroit when businesses
2
This, and too many others here, demonstrates an appalling callousness and arrogance. Would these commentators be willing to put in long hours of often physically demanding labour without the prospect of a decent income from it? How do you assess worth anyway? Is a CEO's work 'worth' hundreds of times more than that of the workers who provide the labour that delivers the goods and services that reap the profits on which his/her rewards are calculated. It's amazing to me that the rise from $9 to $15 over FIVE years is considered a victory by some and undeserved by others. The contempt for people doing your dirty work and providing you with cheap food and such services as the manicures and pedicures about which the Times has recently published exposes is disheartening to read. Countries where comparable work is more fairly rewarded are not collapsing and are free of some of the more egregious features of the inequality and poverty the US's grossly unfair wages breed. Workers deserve dignity and respect, whatever the type of work they do. Paying fairly at the bottom, with appropriate adjustments up the line will not impoverish the wealthy, and will actually pump more money into the economy because people on lower incomes spend what they earn.
6
You assess worth by skill level and knowledge. Not by some arbitrary number pushed by the SEIU and their political stooges. Businesses are very efficient at valuing worth, governments not so much.
Much like taxes-businesses don't pay wages, you do. You can just add 50 cents to everything in the supermarket, add a couple dollars at your favorite restaurants, etc, etc. Then the democrats can start the scripted outrage over the "greedy" corporations. You are raising your own cost of living.
5
The gross margins of grocery stores may be small but the gross margin of their suppliers is not. Nabisco might have to pay its marketing executives less to keep the wholesale cost of their product the same to the grocer
Yes why get an education, or learn a skill so you can actually earn a decent living. Let's all just whine and whimper about raising a family of four on a job designed for a high school student.
Why not raise a paper boys salary to $60,000 a year because no one should be expected to raise a family of six on a paper boys puny salary.
What about a house? I mean a nice $1,000,000 house.
And a car, no two cars say a Bently & a Ferrari.
Why not?
Why not raise a paper boys salary to $60,000 a year because no one should be expected to raise a family of six on a paper boys puny salary.
What about a house? I mean a nice $1,000,000 house.
And a car, no two cars say a Bently & a Ferrari.
Why not?
4
Too many rights, too few responsibilities
These days, you cannot get an education or learn a skill on a less than minimum wage salary. You, who seems to be so well informed, of all people, should know that!
2
Perhaps you're being sarcastic...but it's hard to tell, so in the case you're not, I'll answer 'Why not get an education?'
Because it's expensive; because someone grew up in a neighborhood where gang violence and drug sales were the only way to survive and/or they didn't have a choice to move or a mentor to guide them (also consider the circumstance of why they grew up in such a neighborhood, which can be linked to past federal, state, and county laws that have been continued directly and indirectly by the banking and real estate industries); because they don't have time to go to school, work at least one job, and take care of their family-children or otherwise; because they have a past history of crime; I could go on and on...
I know I am lucky, I grew up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and had parents and peers that never made me question whether I'd go to college, and I continued on to grad school and have since made wages decent enough to live off of. That being said, my grad school loans have a federal rate of 8% (!) compared to my undergrad loans--almost paid off--which were 2.3% when I acquired them less than ten years ago. The cost of repaying for my education from public schools takes a very significant portion of my paycheck monthly, for at least the next decade.
Until the majority of workers can truly make a living wage, the same cycle will continue. Our tax dollars will pay for welfare and everyone will gripe about it. Our economy will suffer.
Because it's expensive; because someone grew up in a neighborhood where gang violence and drug sales were the only way to survive and/or they didn't have a choice to move or a mentor to guide them (also consider the circumstance of why they grew up in such a neighborhood, which can be linked to past federal, state, and county laws that have been continued directly and indirectly by the banking and real estate industries); because they don't have time to go to school, work at least one job, and take care of their family-children or otherwise; because they have a past history of crime; I could go on and on...
I know I am lucky, I grew up in an upper-middle class neighborhood and had parents and peers that never made me question whether I'd go to college, and I continued on to grad school and have since made wages decent enough to live off of. That being said, my grad school loans have a federal rate of 8% (!) compared to my undergrad loans--almost paid off--which were 2.3% when I acquired them less than ten years ago. The cost of repaying for my education from public schools takes a very significant portion of my paycheck monthly, for at least the next decade.
Until the majority of workers can truly make a living wage, the same cycle will continue. Our tax dollars will pay for welfare and everyone will gripe about it. Our economy will suffer.
1
The increase is incremental and will be outpaced by the already hugh cost of living as well as inflation. Anyone in LA or NYC would be hard pressed to support themselves let alone a family right now on $15. In 5 years $15 an hr will have less value. What will they do then. Maybe LA should answer the question of why half its labor force makes below $15 an hr when they're making blockbusters with $100mill budgets. We in NY aren't far behind with more than 1/3 of the workforce making under $15 an hr. How can you propose a solution that doesn't even solve the symptoms, let alone the disease? A significant portion of our workforce, including many educated ppl are chronically underemployed. Now the govt wants to placate the masses they sold out to big business interests with a pseudo wage increase. Not impressed.
4
Not. Going. To. Happen. L.A. will run out of water before this ever becomes remotely viable. Leave it to the state in our country most incapable of making this happen in reality to vote this into law. Today's "victory" is one of the more predictable future defeats in recent memory.
3
Raising the minimum wage causes inflation, which negates the raise. Economists have known this forever.
5
This is an example of just more of bad things that keep happening to a country that was born in freedom and was supposed to stay that way for as long as possible. Benjamin Franklin remarked: "A Republic, if you can keep it."
There is no way you can reconcile ANY minimum wage laws with a free enterprise system. Freedom is supposed to be for anyone, and that means for the executives of companies also, who of course still employ many actual workers. Because of cost of labor, companies try to replace them with 'robots', etc. The workers require more training then to operate the new equipment.
As a result, more and more people are becoming unemployed.
Freedom to find the kind of job that suits you gets reduced, as well as freedom for the companies to decide how to operate, which includes deciding the kinds of jobs, work hours, and wage levels to have available for employees.
Government regulation absolutely should not substitute for businesses making their own business decisions.
When government does regulate business, trying to change and affect things, it subtracts from businesses own ability to act fairly to workers, as well as unfairly. The latter is the only thing govt. should try to affect.
However, as much as possible, unfairness should be eliminated only
by collective bargaining, not by any direct government interference: exerting what amounts to draconian measures to control.
Also, regulation costs taxpayers and others, way too much.
There is no way you can reconcile ANY minimum wage laws with a free enterprise system. Freedom is supposed to be for anyone, and that means for the executives of companies also, who of course still employ many actual workers. Because of cost of labor, companies try to replace them with 'robots', etc. The workers require more training then to operate the new equipment.
As a result, more and more people are becoming unemployed.
Freedom to find the kind of job that suits you gets reduced, as well as freedom for the companies to decide how to operate, which includes deciding the kinds of jobs, work hours, and wage levels to have available for employees.
Government regulation absolutely should not substitute for businesses making their own business decisions.
When government does regulate business, trying to change and affect things, it subtracts from businesses own ability to act fairly to workers, as well as unfairly. The latter is the only thing govt. should try to affect.
However, as much as possible, unfairness should be eliminated only
by collective bargaining, not by any direct government interference: exerting what amounts to draconian measures to control.
Also, regulation costs taxpayers and others, way too much.
One thing to consider: does the US really have a free enterprise system?
I believe when you increase the minimum wage to $15/hr, you raise the cost of the products and or services a business provides. A lot of small businesses are going to feel it when it gets to that wage. The only companies that can afford that are the medium to big companies. Just think about it, a big mac or whopper will increase by a few bucks and it's going to make things less desirable. When they do, sales will go down and sustainability will be short lived.
4
They will still be the working poor...in fact anyone making less than $25 an hour will become the new working poor. These democrats are doing more to lower the middle class than help. But, maybe that was the plan.
1
Since the implementation of the minimum wage, and adjusting for inflation, shouldn't the minimum wage be something in the $30 - $40 /hr?? I checked online and the rate since 1938 with adjusted inflation would make it equivalent to $4 -$5 range today. That doesn't make sense to me.
$15 per hour Times 2000 hours per year is ONLY $30K BEFORE taxes and health insurance costs. I would be happy making $25= $50K
This will just create more uneducated and poor people. Why go to a college or to a trade school when you can earn just as much as a college grad just by flipping burgers or pushing carts? And when making burgers finally becomes fully automated, then what? There's already a company that has made a hamburger making machine that can make hundreds of burgers in an hour with zero mistakes, much more than a human laborer can. Stupidity like this will only make it more tempting to businesses to automate and get rid of their overpaid, under skilled work force. Once again, the unintended consequences of socialist stupidity will devastate the poor and the low skilled.
7
You are a tool! Some people want a career or do something meaning full with their lives beside making money or working low skilled slave labor retail jobs that benefit a few at the top and none of the workers. Are you trying to say people only want an education to get a job to work for a living? 80% of people who go to school do not get a job in their major or field. Only 30% of the population have degrees. We still need doctors, lawyers and engineers ect.
Earning more money will cause them to become more poor? I think you are misdirecting the term "stupidity".
Small businessmen in poorer parts of the city will find that their customers have more money to spend. Businessmen of the time condemned Henry Ford for paying more than market wages, but it worked for him and them. Businessmen do not seem to know how the economy works.
11
Businessmen don't seem to know how the economy works but the NYT, LA city council and commentors do.
I got a big laugh from companies threatening to leave Los Angeles. Unless they were badly mismanaged, these companies depend on Los Angeles' huge and affluent population to cement their profits. No one can live in Los Angeles on a minimum wage salary. L.A. is in competition with Seattle and Portland. The minimum wage raise was inevitable. So if the obscene profits of LA companies are dinged a little bit by the minimum wage raise, Boo Hoo.
24
There may be losses from manufacturing companies that don't particularly NEED to be located in the LA area. This may have been the straw that broke their back and they may end up leaving the city limits.
For the most part things like restaurants, fast food, and local markets are not going anywhere. They may slightly reduce their workforce to counter the initial blow as the economy bounds back, but they are likely to rehire shortly afterwards.
I do foresee some firms like accounting firms or large call centers leaving the LA area though, but only if they were already considering it for other reasons and have been hemming and hawing for some time about the cost of the move.
Either way this is how our system should be: Local Governments need to determine what their cost of living is and determine what the local minimum wage should be.
What works for LA, NYC, and Saint Louis may not translate well to Augusta, Ga, Temple, Texas, and Jonesboro, AK which have much lower standards of living.
The Federal Minimum should only go to about 9.75 - 10.25 per hour, but to push the Fed to 15 is crazy. Major Metropolitan Cities, certainly, but you can't impose such a thing on small business in small rural towns.
For the most part things like restaurants, fast food, and local markets are not going anywhere. They may slightly reduce their workforce to counter the initial blow as the economy bounds back, but they are likely to rehire shortly afterwards.
I do foresee some firms like accounting firms or large call centers leaving the LA area though, but only if they were already considering it for other reasons and have been hemming and hawing for some time about the cost of the move.
Either way this is how our system should be: Local Governments need to determine what their cost of living is and determine what the local minimum wage should be.
What works for LA, NYC, and Saint Louis may not translate well to Augusta, Ga, Temple, Texas, and Jonesboro, AK which have much lower standards of living.
The Federal Minimum should only go to about 9.75 - 10.25 per hour, but to push the Fed to 15 is crazy. Major Metropolitan Cities, certainly, but you can't impose such a thing on small business in small rural towns.
"No one can live in Los Angeles on a minimum wage salary. "
There lies the problem. Minimum wage is not ment to be a living wage.
We have destroyed our middle class by moving a majority of our their jobs overseas to pad the bank accounts of the upper management and large stock holders. We are becoming a country of upper class that constantly desire and require more, and the poor that served them. Raising minimum wage will not solve this. It will only force the upper level decision makers to send more jobs overseas to avaoid the hit to their bottom line.
There lies the problem. Minimum wage is not ment to be a living wage.
We have destroyed our middle class by moving a majority of our their jobs overseas to pad the bank accounts of the upper management and large stock holders. We are becoming a country of upper class that constantly desire and require more, and the poor that served them. Raising minimum wage will not solve this. It will only force the upper level decision makers to send more jobs overseas to avaoid the hit to their bottom line.
1
No ding to profits... Salary is nothing more than a cost of doing business. So, if a business operates on a, for example, 10% margin then they will continue to maintain that margin. How? 1) raise prices or 2) fire employees. When they raise the price then the person getting minimum wage will be back in the same situation he or she was when the minimum wage was $9 because his salary has gone up but costs have too and therefore he or she will still not have much of a purchase power. Or if people are firec then the person who was getting $9 is now getting $0. And then taces will need to increase on the rest of you compassionate folks to pay for his or her unemployment or welfare benefits. Moreover, not only will you be subsidizing the people but you purchase power has decreased also because prices have gone up. So your $25 per hour you were receiving doesn't look so great anymore does it. But as long as your heart is in the right place right?
Personally,I believe America can 'afford a $1000 per week,minimum wage.$25 per hour,base pay,with lunch and travel time 'benefits.Let's face it,50 grand would inspire a dedication needed for the security to dream of the 'American Dream.Let's start dreaming,America...
7
I AGREE 100% It is not like McDonalds' and Walmart do not earn profits. It just is not shared fairly. CEO's in America are paid 325 times the average worker. NOT FAIR!
Does this mean I can tip waiters and waitresses less? Restaurants will inevitably raise prices to pay the increased wages, so in a way patrons will be burdened with the cost one way or another.
6
Not necessarily, Waiters and Waitresses are already exempt from minimum wage due to the income they receive from tips. I doubt the minimum wage increasing is going to assist them much in their daily routine.
In fact is you factor in tips the average waitress used to make more than the previous minimum wage - about $9.38 per hour depending on the week... which is the issue. Some days a waitress may make $50 in tips, another they may make $100, another still they may take home $200 while on a slow day they make only $25. It's a problem wait staff have always had to face and minimum wage doesn't affect them. When I worked as a waiter my official paycheck was about 2.00 per hours. I made far more in tips of course, and that was the primary source of my income. More hours meant more money. Unless someone wanted me to work the morning shift on a Monday... at that point it's just doing someone a favor.
In fact is you factor in tips the average waitress used to make more than the previous minimum wage - about $9.38 per hour depending on the week... which is the issue. Some days a waitress may make $50 in tips, another they may make $100, another still they may take home $200 while on a slow day they make only $25. It's a problem wait staff have always had to face and minimum wage doesn't affect them. When I worked as a waiter my official paycheck was about 2.00 per hours. I made far more in tips of course, and that was the primary source of my income. More hours meant more money. Unless someone wanted me to work the morning shift on a Monday... at that point it's just doing someone a favor.
As a former waitress in Newport Beach, please don't take what the government is doing out on your server. Even though their hourly wage will be higher in five years the cost of living will go up right along with it. With dismal rain in California's future the cost of water and food will rise over the next five years, and I'm sure gas will too, just because oil companies can and will. The minimum wage a server makes basically covers their tax with holdings on their checks. Most servers if they are good at what they do and make a decent living off tips, never even see a pay check, but only a pay stub, that says "This is not a check", because all that was claimed in tips during the pay period must get taxed somehow and its by the hourly rate they make.
2
They have already raised prices up as high as they can without wage rates and the reason is because the public believed that they were paying for the same thing that they were getting in the past when they were actually being overcharged and the restaurant pocketing the difference between a fair wage and the wage that they are paying! It is time that these restaurants started giving us the service that we pay for, not one that we believe that they have been paying!
By the time 15/ hr rolls around the real cost of leaving will nullify the increase.
6
Agreed. This is in reality very little progress, if any.
1
Workers need $15 an hour NOW, not in 2020. Actually $15 an hour is a good start, but in high housing cost areas can hardly be considered a "living wage". How about our country build some truly affordable housing while we're at it too. Shelter should be a right, not a privilege. Too many low wage workers must live in crowded shelters, in their cars or commute very long distances to afford even a modest apartment of their own.
2
That's a great and all, but it does no good now which is when it's really needed to make for a decent living, or at least a living. Then by the time 2020 gets here the cost of living will be higher therefore, again needing to be raised. Which, of course won't be until years down the road same as what it's doing now so...really it makes no dif.
3
Minimum wage was never ment to be a living wage. A living wage is what you make after you move in from McDonald's, Walmart, or any of the other jobs that were never many to be a life long career
It takes over 4 years to raise the minimum wage to a living wage, but it takes one day to raise the price of gas to over $4.00 a gallon. MMMmmmm.
15
Take public transportation. If you can't afford something for which there is an alternative don't complain. Besides I thought LA was all for public transport due to it's green effect.
So doomsday sayers here are predicting that getting workers off government assistance will decrease tourism! 12 dollars for a junk meal - the horror! I'm in Venice, Italy now, and the average cheap meal here is about 2O dollars. I do not mean McDonald's because there are only two in the city. Of course, the food is delicious. And there are more tourists that the city can absorb: in fact, there is a movement to keep the large cruise ships out of the Lagoon which I support. Of course, Venice Beach is not the same thing as a beach in Venice but the idea that you need slave labor to support tourism is ridiculous. Just the opposite - the more high-quality restaurants open, the more - and better quality - tourists will come. California has a lot to offer to international and national travelers but it needs a more qualified labor force in hospitality industry and fewer junk food places. And this means higher minimum wage.
13
I can only relate this with my own experiences. back 30+ years ago, when I had a minimum wage job, I earned $3.35 per hour. Based on an average of 3% Cost-of-Living increase annually, this would arrive at about $8.60 per hour. in the eighties, minimum wage wasn't supposed to be a living wage. How did it suddenly become one now. What needs to happen is that we need to convince people that there is something better for which to strive, and find a way to support people in this endeavor. I've never been a big fan of huge government (I know, anathema to this message board), but maybe the idea of free, or at least subsidized two year college is a good thing. The only issue I have with that is that it now sets the bar two years farther. This will now be fourteen years of public education, much like a high school diploma is now, the bare minimum for any kind of employment.
We should never coddle people into thinking that being on the lower rungs of the income ladder is a worthy goal. When a June Grad with a four year engineering degree earns a starting salary of $20-$25 per hour, how can the graduate come away from four years of college without thinking that he could have just blown it off and still earn $15?
We should never coddle people into thinking that being on the lower rungs of the income ladder is a worthy goal. When a June Grad with a four year engineering degree earns a starting salary of $20-$25 per hour, how can the graduate come away from four years of college without thinking that he could have just blown it off and still earn $15?
8
Look at the other side of your argument, why apply for a job if you are going to have to apply for food stamps anyway? Incidentally, In Nov, 1987 when minimum wage was $3.35 the DOW was around 1700, it is ten times that now. That would place the minimum wage at $33.50.
3
I made $1.65 an hour minimum wage in 70 and that was not enough to live on but I needed to pay rent, food, etc. as we all do. The minimum wage has been stuck for 30 years and has been retreating as an indexed number, i.e. it hasn't kept up with real wages. Congress decided to not give people raises for years because of voodoo economics and the minimum wage slipped behind where it was. On one hand conservatives complain about illegal immigration but on the other they offer incentives to bring in millions of illegal immigrants who will work for these wages. It is time to just make rules because their are no natural market forces at work regarding wages - they would continue down until they were like India's after a time!
1
The minimum wage in California in 1968 was $1.65 an hour, which translates to $11.20 per hour today with inflation. The new minimum wage in Los Angeles approximates the the 1968 rate.
There is a big difference between $15 per hour and what engineers in California make. The average starting salary for a civil engineer in Los Angeles is $47,000 per year and the average salary for all civil engineers in Los Angeles is $72,208 per year. At $15 an hour, yearly earnings would be about $30,000 a year with little or no benefits. I hardly think that anyone who can get an engineering degree is going to blow it off because the minimum wage is going to be raised by 2020.
There is a big difference between $15 per hour and what engineers in California make. The average starting salary for a civil engineer in Los Angeles is $47,000 per year and the average salary for all civil engineers in Los Angeles is $72,208 per year. At $15 an hour, yearly earnings would be about $30,000 a year with little or no benefits. I hardly think that anyone who can get an engineering degree is going to blow it off because the minimum wage is going to be raised by 2020.
1
Going to be very interesting (i.e. potentially disastrous, potentially amazing, potentially just interesting) to see what effects a $15/hr minimum wage has. I don't see how many businesses including almost all restaurants, most stores, and many other businesses will be able to foot this bill without shedding employees, relocating, or closing up shop. I guess we'll see.
3
We do NOT NEED more minimum wage jobs, or more low paying fast food or retail. People will earn MORE! pay MORE in income taxes, LESS Government assistants. food stamps and other aid, worker will have MORE deposable income to SPEND on goods and services. MORE sales tax! And I would assume MORE jobs with workers spending MORE MONEY!
We have seen. In every city that has raised their minimum wage. It has very little impact. Restaurants all raise their prices a dime. No big deal.
All my life, as a staunch Barry Goldwater Republican, I have opposed a minimum wage, fearing it would put businesses out of business. Until I was educated on the actual numbers after cities tried it. After seeing the real life numbers, I strongly support a higher minimum wage. To a certain point of course - not $50/hour.
For me, when facts change, I change my opinion.
All my life, as a staunch Barry Goldwater Republican, I have opposed a minimum wage, fearing it would put businesses out of business. Until I was educated on the actual numbers after cities tried it. After seeing the real life numbers, I strongly support a higher minimum wage. To a certain point of course - not $50/hour.
For me, when facts change, I change my opinion.
Guess LA pols didn't read CBO study of a year or so ago on increasing the minimum wage to $10.10. Inter alia (that's among other things):
--500,000 lost jobs.
--Maybe as many as 1mm.
--Most people don't stay at min. wage.
--Much of benefit of increase will go family units making above family poverty level.
--Prices for poor will go up.
--New and marginal businesses will contract, close or never open.
But not to worry: The LA pols will simply pass laws prohibiting all of the foregoing and any other adverse consequences.
And of course because poverty will increase: LA pols will increase min. wage to $20. Or $30. Or-who knows.
And like the-possibly apocryphal but supposedly true -story of the stated position of a Brit Labor Party leader some years ago: They will not rest until all in LA make more than the average wage.
--500,000 lost jobs.
--Maybe as many as 1mm.
--Most people don't stay at min. wage.
--Much of benefit of increase will go family units making above family poverty level.
--Prices for poor will go up.
--New and marginal businesses will contract, close or never open.
But not to worry: The LA pols will simply pass laws prohibiting all of the foregoing and any other adverse consequences.
And of course because poverty will increase: LA pols will increase min. wage to $20. Or $30. Or-who knows.
And like the-possibly apocryphal but supposedly true -story of the stated position of a Brit Labor Party leader some years ago: They will not rest until all in LA make more than the average wage.
6
I see more illegal immigrants working illegally for less than the minimum wage.
More part time legal workers working for less than minimum wages.
And more innovation in service automation.
But only in Los Angeles.
More part time legal workers working for less than minimum wages.
And more innovation in service automation.
But only in Los Angeles.
11
The Government can crack down HARD on Business that hire illegal workers. Prison time for those who break the law and hire and do not pay their workers the new wage!
Naysayers seem to think this will collapse the economy (no, that will probably be the new tech and housing bubbles). In reality, these workers will spend every cent, buying their kids new shoes and Little League uniforms, finally buying that new(er) car, getting the bigger apartment, or going out to eat once a week with the family, providing a tangible bump to the local economy.
And if I hear one more person say that these workers don't have the skills that merit $15 an hour, I want them to explain what special skills Gisele Bundchen has that earn her millions upon millions? Anyone?
And if I hear one more person say that these workers don't have the skills that merit $15 an hour, I want them to explain what special skills Gisele Bundchen has that earn her millions upon millions? Anyone?
24
I definitely agree with you on this. It has to be recognized that when people have more money, they spend more money.
However, it will be interesting to see what happens with this because not every business will have an increase in sales/profit that is proportional to their increased costs employment. For example, shoe repair shop would have to pay their workers more, but they wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed to have more customers. If anything, the shoe repair shop would lose business because people would be able to buy new shoes instead of having their old ones repaired. That may be a bad example, but I hope it gets my point across.
Overall, this increase should be great for their economy. However, while some businesses will benefit from this, I think certain types of businesses will be hurt by an increase in costs that does not guarantee more business.
However, it will be interesting to see what happens with this because not every business will have an increase in sales/profit that is proportional to their increased costs employment. For example, shoe repair shop would have to pay their workers more, but they wouldn't necessarily be guaranteed to have more customers. If anything, the shoe repair shop would lose business because people would be able to buy new shoes instead of having their old ones repaired. That may be a bad example, but I hope it gets my point across.
Overall, this increase should be great for their economy. However, while some businesses will benefit from this, I think certain types of businesses will be hurt by an increase in costs that does not guarantee more business.
It's apparent that national leaders can't think of the U.S. as a country anymore and that we continue to evolve into an amalgamation of states only bound together economically when it's beneficial to them. Congress can't pass a national minimum wage because a majority of states couldn't afford it and as a practical matter these states are already functioning as third world economies.
CA will be a survivor and there will be other cities/states who will follow CA's lead but the majority of the country won't. Thus, this wished for perfect union conceived by our founders will continue to erode.
CA will be a survivor and there will be other cities/states who will follow CA's lead but the majority of the country won't. Thus, this wished for perfect union conceived by our founders will continue to erode.
I am actually for this increase and would hope it would be immediate but logic tells me we will see the old automat coming back where only a few employees are needed to cook food and everything else is done with automation like a vending machine.
2
Isn't the name of the article a bit misrepresenting? It's making it seem like they are lifting the minimum wage right now and it's actually not going to happen till 2020...
2
I see it as a wonderful thing! But when there's a raise of any kind, there's another raise right behind it, the greedy corporate world. Retailers everywhere are getting it in gear to make that raise look like a deficit. Now the rest of the country that didn't raise their minimum wage expect protesting and once again riots because they can't afford to buy anything, I'm sure the protesters will see alot of all races in this one, way to go California.
1
Half of the negative comments seem to come from people who aren't paid a decent wage and resent that someone else will be, and the other half are from people who claim this will just create inflation. Both are wrong. Other countries pay their workers better and offer more benefits, just look at the salary of McDonald workers in Northern Europe. There are a number of successful US companies like Costco and Starbucks that pay better than minimum wage and offer better benefits. Obviously, paying a worker a living wage does not force companies to go bankrupt or for prices to soar.
What can happen is that they will have less reliance on taxpayer funded assistance, a greater ability to pay for education and additional discretionary spending. This will create greater demand and will stimulate not reduce jobs. Look at San Francisco, stores there are looking for more employees, not fewer.
As for the other posters who claim to be house painters, librarians and other semi skilled jobs, your wages will rise as well. Of course if you all had supported unions, we would all be in a better situation since unions build the middle class and get workers decent benefit packages.
What can happen is that they will have less reliance on taxpayer funded assistance, a greater ability to pay for education and additional discretionary spending. This will create greater demand and will stimulate not reduce jobs. Look at San Francisco, stores there are looking for more employees, not fewer.
As for the other posters who claim to be house painters, librarians and other semi skilled jobs, your wages will rise as well. Of course if you all had supported unions, we would all be in a better situation since unions build the middle class and get workers decent benefit packages.
33
Both costco and starbucks have high prices, you're a fool to shop at either.
Why would I shop at a store that requires my tax support for their employees who are paid less than a livable wage? Why can McDonalds make a profit while paying their workers in Denmark a decent wage and benefit, but can't do the same here? I am tired of using my tax dollars to support obscene corporate profits.
1
"As for the other posters who claim to be house painters, librarians and other semi skilled jobs,"
Semi skilled jobs? Librarians! You need a Master's Degree (The Master of Library and Information Science (MLIS)) work as a librarian! You may only see the volunteer who checks out your books but the LIBRARIAN is the one handling acquisitions (everything from copying machines to new books--trade books vs non-fiction texts, new computers with a LAN), building renovations. She manages a staff. She is responsible for the environment-humidity, temperatures. Rare book collections.
Just look at the 10 page requirements!
http://www.careeroverview.com/librarian-careers.html
Semi skilled jobs? Librarians! You need a Master's Degree (The Master of Library and Information Science (MLIS)) work as a librarian! You may only see the volunteer who checks out your books but the LIBRARIAN is the one handling acquisitions (everything from copying machines to new books--trade books vs non-fiction texts, new computers with a LAN), building renovations. She manages a staff. She is responsible for the environment-humidity, temperatures. Rare book collections.
Just look at the 10 page requirements!
http://www.careeroverview.com/librarian-careers.html
1
You mean I'll have to pay $1 more for a hamburger, just so someone can live with dignity and have the basic decency of a living wage?
I'm fine with that.
I'm fine with that.
90
Go right ahead, donate more if you wish, leave me out of it because I already work from January to May just to pay taxes!!
2
Then why do you want to force employees to rely on tax payer subsidies because they are paid slave wages?
Jerry, your taxes are paying for the government benefits that those who make the current minimum wage are receiving so that they can live at the poverty line. This raise, in effect, shifts the burden from the government (meaning, in part, you) to their employer to provide a decent standard of living for their employees.
So, what will $15/hr less taxes buy in 2020? How much will things cost then? Will one be able to buy the same items at McDonalds one can by for $10 today for $15 on memorial day 2020?
Given the Federal Reserve money games to serve the oligarchs, minimum wage workers will most likely be facing the same struggles, and supporting a bigger and older retired population.
Given the Federal Reserve money games to serve the oligarchs, minimum wage workers will most likely be facing the same struggles, and supporting a bigger and older retired population.
3
Excellent. Significant increases in tax local, state and federal will be realized, to include SS. Plus studies have shown the more people earn, the more they become Republicana.
State control of wages is such a good idea. I can never figure out why the USSR isn't the world's leading economy.
11
If you think that the Soviet Union having a government imposed minimum wage caused its collapse (rather than an entire centrally planned economy), you should reread your history books.
This will never work. This will cut so many jobs. No one thinks ahead. I all of a sudden is forced to pay a ENTRY LEVEL employee $15 a hour you can count of multiple changes in that business. Your hours will be cut in half. The amount of work you do at your no part time job will increase and more automation will be used to reduce the need for people that want to be paid more than they are worth. If you complain that you can't support your family on the current minimum wage you have 2 choices just like our parents & grandparents did. Don't have a family until you can afford to support one or GET ANOTHER JOB. $15 an hour @ 40 hours a week is $30,000 a year. NO ENTRY LEVEL WORKER AT FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS ARE WORTH THAT. Peroid. The era of the people that think they deserve double what they are making just because the insane Liberal Left say they do will be over if this continues to happen. This will bankrupt our country. Thousands of business will close and unemployment will skyrocket.
11
Wrong
6
Our parents and grandparents were able to support a family on the earnings ONE breadwinner. There was no need for both parents to work, or for a second job. Yes, let's return to the situation once enjoyed by our parents and grandparents. Indeed!
When your dealing with large corporations like Target, Walmarts and Starbucks this is great victory. But don't forget a lot of people who work for minimum wage are employed by small business owners. So when the dust settles and the real numbers come in it's going to be interesting to see how many people are making more money per hour and how many people are now unemployed. I hope the numbers are for good of the wage hike.
3
I'm a staunchly libertarian-leaning Republican, but I am totally delighted that LA is running the experiment for the rest of the country. The ultimate impact is truly known by nobody--except of course to ideologues who have preconceived notions that are fully immune to experience.
My predictions:
1. There will be a rapid increase in productivity as the least-productive workers are replaced with better workers and more tasks are automated/computerized.
2. Business profitability will improve as low-productivity, low-health, and high-liability employees are replaced
3. The wealth gap between rich and poor will widen as capital investments to improve productivity and efficiency increase
4. Many low-skill individuals will find it difficult to find work in LA and a few will emigrate. Most will resort to occasional stints of temporary employment, black market jobs, disability payments, and desperation.
5. Despite the good intentions of all, LA will continue to consist of an "Elysium" on the hills and pit of despair in the basin.
My predictions:
1. There will be a rapid increase in productivity as the least-productive workers are replaced with better workers and more tasks are automated/computerized.
2. Business profitability will improve as low-productivity, low-health, and high-liability employees are replaced
3. The wealth gap between rich and poor will widen as capital investments to improve productivity and efficiency increase
4. Many low-skill individuals will find it difficult to find work in LA and a few will emigrate. Most will resort to occasional stints of temporary employment, black market jobs, disability payments, and desperation.
5. Despite the good intentions of all, LA will continue to consist of an "Elysium" on the hills and pit of despair in the basin.
10
Check out minimum wage in australia vs cost
How many employers will ignore this mandate and continue to pay illegal workers off the books? When will we punish unscrupulous employers and enforce our immigration laws?
7
If rwal wages continue to sink due to gop policies there will soon be no motive for many to work anyway. Wages below the poverty line are demotivating. The market that so many worship is not benevolent, but merely amoral and when the ayn rands of the world force wages low enough there will be no incentive to work.
1
It works on the business owner level too. As desperate people kept bidding lower and lower for work I decided running a business wasn't worth the money anymore. The 60 hour weeks, the poor work performance from a lack of a work ethic, shrinkage, the paperwork, the summers when I couldn't go somewhere with my family because of the lightning damaged phone systems and the pain I've lived with after 14 surgeries and Neuropathy convinced me it was time to go. I applied for and got Disability. I was shocked when it only took 2 months for an approval and his was 10 years ago when they weren't giving it away as they do now. The doctors couldn't believe I was still pulling cable in my condition. The employees have gone who cares where and I have a life again after 30 years of business ownership. I liked running my business but I was tired of it running me and not paying well enough.
Last year more businesses closed than were started. Without an expectation of a decent financial reward there is no longer an incentive to own a business.
Last year more businesses closed than were started. Without an expectation of a decent financial reward there is no longer an incentive to own a business.
hmm... the standard of living the West and the rest of the world aspire for , is killing the planet !
After all it should have been a simple survival process, but look at how complex and disastrous it has become !
After all it should have been a simple survival process, but look at how complex and disastrous it has become !
1
All the unemployed illegal aliens (I can say that, right?) who couldn't find work at $9/hour will now be joined by those who were working previously but aren't worth the new $15/hour minimum, as well as those who will lose their jobs when businesses close or relocate. Prices will rise, resulting in lower purchasing power for those on government benefits (as well as anyone working who did not see a raise) resulting in increased poverty. And those who think the laws of economics can be suspended by a City Council vote will be mystified.
4
The idea that we even have a "minimum wage" shows how little we know about the economy. I don't like stingy employers either but those who support this raise in the wage are foolish to ignore the draconian income tax they have to pay. The same authority demanding a raise in the wages also robs the employees with these unnecessary and oppressive taxes then wastes the money.
4
Well, that's that. NYC is now the laughing stock of the civilized world. When the capitalism capital of the world won't pay a living wage, 50% of its citizens are living in poverty, the worst homelessness rate ever, public housing on the verge of collapse, and a police commissioner that wants to turn resisting an arrest into a felony...
LA leads, NYC bleeds.
That's right. NYC is the laughing stock of the progressive world.
Can't wait to get my biscotti and mini Frappucino in the morning - while stepping over the homeless on the way to my coding job in Silicon Alley.
LA leads, NYC bleeds.
That's right. NYC is the laughing stock of the progressive world.
Can't wait to get my biscotti and mini Frappucino in the morning - while stepping over the homeless on the way to my coding job in Silicon Alley.
5
This is needed. While one could argue that this is government intervention in what should be a free market, there is no such thing as a totally free market, and there've been many instances where businesses and even large corporations like Walmart and McDonalds have paid wages that can only be called exploitative. It's also time to do something about corporations cutting workers' hours to push them to government healthcare.
5
If you increase the Minimum wage , it simply will mean that Employers will send jobs overseas ! Period !
3
They already send every job the can overseas, with tax subsidies. The market is indifferent to all but the wealthy.
1
Haven't they not already been doing that without an increase in the minimum wage?
Absolutely disgraceful and embarrassing 15 bucks in 5 years. It's a handout from the top dudes in the LA council so the poor don't revolt. it scraps off the table.
3
Boo Hooo! They say they don't have enough data to say if raising the minimum will destroy the economy. But we have at least enough information to show it won't to try it. And we know what we are doing isn't working. And it's time to stop subsidizing businesses with cheap labor. And if a business cannot make it because without subsidized cheap labor? Then, perhaps we don't need that business? Maybe, we need something better in it's place? And when we set the bar, and the business knows what that bar is, they work that into their business plan. I say here here. Because I'm tired of subsidizing these businesses.
4
Most of the commentators seemed to have missed the fact that the increase will merely return the real minimum hourly wage to where it was in the 1960's. I don't recall there being a deep and prolonged recession then. Business did just fine although CEOS didn't have compensation in the tens or hundreds of millions.
11
Do you think anything else changed since the 1960s? Like maybe the rise of dozens of newly industrialized countries that now provide cheap labor that competes with low wage labor here? Computers, automation, immigration, etc.
This one variable, "everything was great in the 1960s" argument is idiotic.
This one variable, "everything was great in the 1960s" argument is idiotic.
5
If you say so. Inflation will go up, California is already an anti business state with s many taxes... How is a small business lik me suppose to survive if I'm abreast breaking even?
3
Will this actually affect you? Tell the truth. Do you have employees who make less than $15 an hour?
Raising the minimum wage has never negatively affected any area it has been tried in. Restaurants etc merely raise their prices a tiny bit. Customers don't mind as they know it is money well spent. It is a level playing field that is raised for all.
Raising the minimum wage has never negatively affected any area it has been tried in. Restaurants etc merely raise their prices a tiny bit. Customers don't mind as they know it is money well spent. It is a level playing field that is raised for all.
Finally, some common sense and justice for the least among us. If this were a poor country, we all would gladly share miserable salaries stoically; but this is a rich country, with a maldistribution problem, and a dangerous inequality for a democracy, and a nonsustainable inequity. A minimum wage of 15 dollars would be nonlivable by the rich and powerful, but at least reasonable to minimize hunger and despair.
3
Agreed the country is rich.
It doesn't follow that a business can afford what you think they should.
The business should pay a wage that is justified on the worth of the labor and
this wealthy country should make up the difference between what you think
a person should get as a equitable income and what they are being paid.
If a person works one day a week does their employer have to pay them a livable wage.
Of coarse not.
This wealthy country should do that.
It doesn't follow that a business can afford what you think they should.
The business should pay a wage that is justified on the worth of the labor and
this wealthy country should make up the difference between what you think
a person should get as a equitable income and what they are being paid.
If a person works one day a week does their employer have to pay them a livable wage.
Of coarse not.
This wealthy country should do that.
LOL.. Have fun trying to open a small retail shop on LA. Minimum Wage is going to kill the small business owner
3
It's a great day for the workers of Los Angeles or is it? At first the pay raise will seem like a blessing. But for those cheering the $15 minimum wage please consider the following:
1) Business owners will still have to make a profit if they wish to survive. To do this they will cut your hours, deny advancement opportunities and give you more responsibilities of the same position.
2) The prices will go up at every business from Disneyland to McDonald's. Los Angeles and Orange County are locations that rely on tourism. If Los Angeles prices go up, Orange county will follow suit. People will travel to the LA area less and jobs will be cut. Taxes will go up because cities still need their revenue. Imagine $6+ for gas, $12+ for meal combos at fast food restaurants, amusement parks sky rocketing their prices and also your rent will go up.
3) Finally the pay raise you thought you had still have the only paying power you current wage has today.
Anytime government tries to manipulate the free market it has dire results. It's like if the government gave every 1 million dollars. Everyone would feel rich at first and praise government for doing so... that is until everyone realizes it will cost 100k to but a car and 5 million to buy a house.
Just a thought
1) Business owners will still have to make a profit if they wish to survive. To do this they will cut your hours, deny advancement opportunities and give you more responsibilities of the same position.
2) The prices will go up at every business from Disneyland to McDonald's. Los Angeles and Orange County are locations that rely on tourism. If Los Angeles prices go up, Orange county will follow suit. People will travel to the LA area less and jobs will be cut. Taxes will go up because cities still need their revenue. Imagine $6+ for gas, $12+ for meal combos at fast food restaurants, amusement parks sky rocketing their prices and also your rent will go up.
3) Finally the pay raise you thought you had still have the only paying power you current wage has today.
Anytime government tries to manipulate the free market it has dire results. It's like if the government gave every 1 million dollars. Everyone would feel rich at first and praise government for doing so... that is until everyone realizes it will cost 100k to but a car and 5 million to buy a house.
Just a thought
9
I am an independent so what I say may not appeal to anyone.
This is actually more likely a great deal for business owners than they would like to admit. Because every business will be required to pay more every employee working will have more money. At 15 dollars an hour these are not the type of jobs that have vast amounts of disposable incomes. Everything that is earned will go strait back into the economy. In other words they will spend it almost immediately.
It has been well documented that when the middle and lower class incomes make decent money they maintain a higher standard of living and also the rich make a lot of money off of their buying power. In fact economist will tell you our economy will thrive when lower income families have buying power.
Personally I am for everyone making as much as they can as long as they are not sitting on their butts. At least these people are willing to work for a living.
This is actually more likely a great deal for business owners than they would like to admit. Because every business will be required to pay more every employee working will have more money. At 15 dollars an hour these are not the type of jobs that have vast amounts of disposable incomes. Everything that is earned will go strait back into the economy. In other words they will spend it almost immediately.
It has been well documented that when the middle and lower class incomes make decent money they maintain a higher standard of living and also the rich make a lot of money off of their buying power. In fact economist will tell you our economy will thrive when lower income families have buying power.
Personally I am for everyone making as much as they can as long as they are not sitting on their butts. At least these people are willing to work for a living.
7
Let's hope the old saying "As California goes, so goes the nation" is true.
Congratulations, LA, and may the $15 minimum wage spread to the rest of the state and throughout the nation.
Congratulations, LA, and may the $15 minimum wage spread to the rest of the state and throughout the nation.
Much as I applaud the $15 per hour, I'd feel more optimistic if the raise were more immediate. Notwithstanding the phase-in, by 2020 $15 may not be worth much more than $9 is now.
Business managers and business owners are inherently trained to pay their labor i.e. blue collar workforce as least as possible to increase their profit margins. Its almost ingrained at the DNA level. Yet these same workers can barely afford the basics from paying rent to keeping food on the table. Hopefully this will be a wake up call across corporate America that employees need a living wage which make our overall economy more robust. One can't spend money if one isn't making decent money.
1
If the mayor gives any more we will call him santa clause , but money doesn't grow on trees in The Republic of Los Angeles, ,we all want the most and best for everyone but typical chain stores are not doing that well this will not help
1
This "living wage" everyone keeps talking about will no longer be just that when people; a. realize inflation is kicking in and the costs of the businesses are being passed onto them and/or b. get fired. Nice job. Good luck to high school students and unskilled workers trying to get a job. No one deserves $15 to go collect carts at a grocery store. A minimum wage is in place for the sole purpose of gaining experience and the skills needed to move up to the next level. Not to be a "living wage."
5
First of all the headline "Los Angeles Lifts Its Minimum Wage to $15 Per Hour" is misleading. This does not happen until 2020.
By 2020 $15 per hour will not keep up with inflation.
People need it NOW...not by 2020.
By 2020 $15 per hour will not keep up with inflation.
People need it NOW...not by 2020.
3
Keep up with inflation? Inflation over the last year was -.1%
It would be easier just to have the government provide everything in distribution centers. There will be the government cheese, and everyone can work their assigned jobs. all will be guaranteed housing and 3 meals with healthcare. Require microchips to track all the workers. All you have to do is come and pull your lever and all will have prosperity. The government can seize ownership of companies like apple and redistribute their wealth and make all their patents free for all! The government will also educate you for free. After all you will be assigned jobs after you pass. Those who don't pass will be placed in jobs accordingly according to skill. Everyone will wear the same government assigned clothing as well. no need for brand names. all beer will just say beer on the can. life will be great!
6
It sounds like a combination of 1984 and Modern Times. The Prols will love it.
Awesome! This means that you now only need to work 50 hours a week to afford rent on an average Westside apartment and nothing else, not even food.
3
Cue the armchair economists and doomsayers in 3, 2, 1 ...
1
I hope this leads to lesser traffic.
Sarcasm aside, ideally, economic fairness would be done at the level of fiscal policy by increasing taxes on the wealthiest and increase basic income and negative income tax for the poorest. But since the extreme right won't let that happen, wage floors, while not economically most efficient, are necessary for the crudest level of economic fairness.
When the extreme right agrees to increase taxes on the wealthiest to provide more for the poorest, then I'll be okay with small or no wage floors. Until then, let the wage floors be raised to ten times market equilibrium, and let the corresponding economic inefficiency happen!
When the extreme right agrees to increase taxes on the wealthiest to provide more for the poorest, then I'll be okay with small or no wage floors. Until then, let the wage floors be raised to ten times market equilibrium, and let the corresponding economic inefficiency happen!
2
I went to college for 2 years to get my technical degree for computer aided design in LA. I spent several thousand dollars to get that degree and I started at $15 an hour. You tell me what incentive there will be in 2020 for others to go and spend that money for jobs California's crippled architectural infrastructure (I.e its roadways) desperately needs. But at least all the lazy fat people of LA will get there $30 BURGERS! The ripple effect is huge, the pressure this wage increase will put on jobs to increase their own making $12, $13, $14, $15 at the moment will destroy incentive to go after jobs this state needs because why go spend thousands for a degree when I can make the same flipping burgers and trimming trees for FREE!! I hope you like an infrastructure based on fast food, landscaping, and other skilless jobs california. I'm going to a state where the politicians and lawmakers didn't learn how to improve their economy via a coloring book where you get points for staying in the lines.
2
You should give a chance to "trickle up" economy, where poor people have more money, spend it on necessary things (as opposed to the rich who don't reinject their money back into the economy), thus drive the demand which in turn, revitalizes the economy.
$15 per hour seems like a bargain when if the minimum wage hadn't been artificially suppressed for 40 years by the introduction previously unemployed women and illegal immigrant workers to the labor pool.
If the minimum wage were actually raised to have the same purchasing power that it did in 1968 it would be over $23 per hour in 2015 dollars and if we actually paid a "Living Wage" which took into account the plethora of expenses and bills people have today that they didn't in 1968 you could adjust that to almost $31 per hour!
People talk about the price of hamburgers going up when the margin on stuff like fast food remains the same with any big chain anywhere in the country and maybe even the planet.
In podunk county they pay $7 per hour, sell a hamburger for $4, pay very little for rent and sell 2000 hamburgers per day. In NYC they pay $14 per hour, sell a hamburger for $4, pay a huge amount of rent and sell 15,000 hamburgers per day.
Unless your business model is already a borderline flop created by an illiterate without a business degree things like food costs and labor could triple and still leave you with 20% on your bottom line.
If the minimum wage were actually raised to have the same purchasing power that it did in 1968 it would be over $23 per hour in 2015 dollars and if we actually paid a "Living Wage" which took into account the plethora of expenses and bills people have today that they didn't in 1968 you could adjust that to almost $31 per hour!
People talk about the price of hamburgers going up when the margin on stuff like fast food remains the same with any big chain anywhere in the country and maybe even the planet.
In podunk county they pay $7 per hour, sell a hamburger for $4, pay very little for rent and sell 2000 hamburgers per day. In NYC they pay $14 per hour, sell a hamburger for $4, pay a huge amount of rent and sell 15,000 hamburgers per day.
Unless your business model is already a borderline flop created by an illiterate without a business degree things like food costs and labor could triple and still leave you with 20% on your bottom line.
2
Many of these companies can afford it. Profits are a dubious thing, Middle and upper management wage are too high, There are no real parameters measuring the productivity of upper management. Companies with CEOs and upper management get committee authorized pay that is totally out of wack with what they actually bring to a company. It is time to give higher wages to the rest of the employees and lower the higher employees compensation and keep price of goods the same.
5
It's time for the nation's largest city, and hopefully the entire state, to join the west coast in setting a $15/hr. minimum wage--NOW! And while you're at it Governor Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio, how about thinking ahead and indexing it for inflation so this will stop being an unnecessary political issue. It's the right thing do--among many others--to start pushing back against the historic income inequality, tax-cuts for the wealthy and wage stagnation despite record productivity that has occurred over the past 30 years. Moreover, for those who complain about "takers" it will remove many from needing Food Stamps and Medicaid. It will also set a uniform wage floor that will not disadvantage business competition.
3
15$ seems high for a 16 year old fast food hash slinger, but there is no other food business in Southern California. There are no regular restaurants. There are only drive-thrus and only fast food. Carl's, Del Taco, PocoLoco chicken, Carl juniors, another Del Taco, Burg King, McDs, Family Basket (which is a good idea: real breakfast in styrofoam, out the window, but only located in Perris), and just one more Del Taco, besides those over there and that one next to them. Then there is the tragic large stadium in Riverside named in large tragic letters 'Roller Derby 2001'. Cacti grow in the parking lot cracks, but I digressed because this wages topic is not front page news, it's a local story. Rent-A-Centers will reap the windfall as my more pressing air-bagged Honda shrapnels the unlucky driver carrying my license. I only hope it does not damage the hair.
Do you only stop off on the side of the freeway. There are many family owned restaurants and small businesses with just a few locations that will be hit the hardest by this...
They didn't go far enough. Why didn't we just make the minimum wage $50 dollars per hour, that way everyone can be rich, that is how this works, right?
7
As long as that's coupled with tight controls against under-the-table cash employment, especially common in the case of illegal aliens - it should work.
1
I wonder if they considered alternative measures, e.g., municipal fund for pension and/or health insurance.
And in a stunning development, rents around the city go up--again--along with all staples, thus creating a localized hyperinflation.
3
Isn't it wonderful that the left can vote to repeal the law of supply and demand with regard to labor and wages! Common sense tells us that prices will rise for those who can least afford that and that demand for labor will fall for those with the least amount of skills. But, the leftists in this country are quickly losing touch with reality I am afraid. They think that this is a great idea. Unfortunately, we all will find out to the contrary.
6
I never would have imagined, ever, in my life, that big corporations such as Walmart who voluntarily increased their minimum wages recently, would be considered as left. I am very sure Walmart did not take into account the free market economy. They just did it out of ideological purpose.
The "left?"
"will rise for those who can least afford that and that demand for labor will fall for those with the least amount of skills" Yes, and the right doesn't want to do anything about it. They are just fine with the "law of the jungle". Civilization on the other hand is precisely about mitigating the "law of the jungle". Can't fault the left for trying to salvage what's left of American civilization.
Congratulations to Los Angeles. To prevent any possibility of creating a "wage island" California should adopt the $15.00 minimum wage for the entire state.
4
You may not be aware that CA is not an actual island. That being the case, extending the $15/hour minimum wage to the entire state will not eliminate the "wage island" problem unless you also prohibit interstate travel.
1
My response as a business owner is to do the following:
1. Cut marginal workers. Only pay people $15/hour who are worth that much. If I am forced to pay a higher wage to everyone, then I will hire fewer, but more qualified, people and push them to work more efficiently.There will be no room for the barely literate person with personality problems or a poor attitude.
2. Close marginal locations.
3. Pass on cost increases to customers.
4. Invest more heavily in software and automation.
1. Cut marginal workers. Only pay people $15/hour who are worth that much. If I am forced to pay a higher wage to everyone, then I will hire fewer, but more qualified, people and push them to work more efficiently.There will be no room for the barely literate person with personality problems or a poor attitude.
2. Close marginal locations.
3. Pass on cost increases to customers.
4. Invest more heavily in software and automation.
13
And my response to yours would be to never use your business. Seems fair to me.
What your comment implies about your attitude toward your community, your employees, or should I call them your "underlings," and your customers is truly appalling. It's good that you did not indicate what your business is because a lot of your customers would probably boycott you.
Cut your own pay?
Well, good for LA. It will work there, and provide a real alternative to college and higher wage careers because CA is a low-tech state. Here in NY, where the minimum wage is lower, I went to a local grocery store and checked out with an automated cashier. Then I went to CVS to buy a few cheap items, and checked out with an automated cashier. Yesterday I went to Home Depot and bought some hardware. I checked out with an automated cashier.
2
California the home of Silicon Valley is a low tech state? Really. My local grocery store has had automated checkout machines for at least five years. Yes computerization is likely to result in fewer jobs in most sectors of the economy. Keeping wages low will not preclude that but raising the minimum wage may restrain somewhat the profit grabbing that has increasingly created a nation of a small percent of hyper rich and rich and a large majority of poor households.
Look out for the robots and the self-check-out machines. Those companies are going to see some growth. Go long.
2
Raising the minimum wage isn't anything new, Im just so tired of Republicans screaming that the sky is falling each time we want business to pay people a living wage, as an American I am embarrassed for Republicans.
6
You've never owned a small retail shop like me. I have 4 employees. All minimum wage high school kids. If this were to happen to me, 2 of them would get fired. And then my shop will close, because I can't put in 80 hours a week anymore.
On the other hand it might push business out of these metro areas.
Economics 101:
Higher cost of labor -> increase in price.
Increase in price -> decreased demand
Decreased demand -> layoffs
Layoffs -> Poverty and dependence on government benefits
Higher cost of labor -> increase in price.
Increase in price -> decreased demand
Decreased demand -> layoffs
Layoffs -> Poverty and dependence on government benefits
5
No.
Mcdonalds may lower the franchise fee.
The price of a mcdonalds meal includes everything from servicing the real estate loan to paying the sales commission to the fryer sales person. There are hundreds of buckets from which money can be drawn to keep prices the same.
Basic business!
Mcdonalds may lower the franchise fee.
The price of a mcdonalds meal includes everything from servicing the real estate loan to paying the sales commission to the fryer sales person. There are hundreds of buckets from which money can be drawn to keep prices the same.
Basic business!
It's not that simple. Your theory is offset by:
Higher wages---> Increased purchasing power.
Increased purchasing power-----> Increased demand.
Increased demand---> More employment.
More employment----> Less dependence on government benefits.
Higher wages---> Increased purchasing power.
Increased purchasing power-----> Increased demand.
Increased demand---> More employment.
More employment----> Less dependence on government benefits.
There's no risk of poverty for the CEO's for many of these fast food chains, or the shareholders. How about a bit of a reduction in the huge profits that they make? Maybe the slight increase in pay over the next five years for those on minimum wage could come at a slight cost of the massive profits these companies make. Or is that too unreasonable to ask?
Now watch jobs, particularly for young people who need basic entry level skills the most, dry up. This will further drive the push for automation and cause more competition for low end jobs. There are lots of unemployed graduate degree students who won't work for 8.50 who may well do so for $15. Who do you think a McD's is going to hire? Someone who can't show up on time and has no basic skills, or the english major who can't find a job?
3
I hope they realize the jobs that pay low wages now will relocate to other places with lower minimum wages. This will cause people to lose those jobs to people willing to work for what the job is actually worth. This is like directing cattle to go where you want, the jobs go then so do the people. Jobs that remain will pass the cost down to you and you will never realize the benefit of that raise to begin with.
4
Why does management never have to pay itself what the job is worth? Adam Smith seems to stay his invisible hand where management is concerned.
Thank you Dr. Jesse. Many studies verify that raising the minimum wage has a small effect on job numbers. The benefits outweigh the costs.
So fast-food cooks, convenience story clerks, hotel maids are going to lose their jobs because fast-food chains, convenience stores and hotels are going to relocate elsewhere???
People deserve a living wage but expect a big drop in job offerings in the service sector. Also illegal immigration population will rise dramatically as these people will undercut the $15 wage by working for less.
1
I hope it works. I hope everyone remains employed. I hope the hamburgers don't increase in price. I hope, most importantly, this pay increase will lead to less young people selling drugs, less young people engaging in prostitution, an increase in families with a mother and a father in the home, less gang violence, less dependence on welfare, and a burgeoning of the middle class. Only time will tell.
6
If you cannot afford more than $2 for a hamburgers, eat at home.
There is no free lunch.
There is no free lunch.
3
Where can you get a $2.00 hamburger?
@NM: You are right, there is no free lunch. So that means every one works for living. But their pay must be commensurate to the value of their labor, not an artificial amount, which this $15 amount is. I will be frank, I was being judicious in my post, but $15/hr is too much. I will go along with $10 as the President has ordered for federal contractors. $10-11/hr is where the minimum wage should be if it had kept up with inflation. I would say to the minimum wager earner, get an education, learn some skills, apply for a better job if you want more money. Thank you.
my main concern is with how this might trickle down to people that currently make ~$15/hr. Will their pay be proportionally increased? If not, that leaves a lot of people working at more skilled jobs that require more education and expertise making as much as someone working drive thru. It seems to me like the incentive for people to work towards being qualified for a higher skill position will go down bc of this.
4
In the short term, I would agree that there's a chance that lower end skilled labor may take a hit because of comparable incomes to entry level employment. However I believe less people will train for those positions because they can make a living on an entry level hourly pay, which could shrink the poll of low level skilled workers and overtime the pay should surpass that of fast food workers. However this is economics, there's really nothing more than speculation until it occurs. Get 10 economists in a room and everyone of them will have a different opinion.
Don't "worry", they can't afford education anyway so that won't be a hard choice.
Salvage the American educational system from corporate claws and we can talk again.
Salvage the American educational system from corporate claws and we can talk again.
1
Raising the minimum wage tends to raise all wages.
Now we will find out once and for all if higher minimum wages actually put companies out of business, it they raise the cost of goods, or if the people who offered these raises will continue to buy goods at higher prices themselves.
Let the games begin.
Let the games begin.
3
You know very well that prices will go up but that's not the fault of the workers. It's the fault of the American way and it's greed. Prices will always go up while wages chase it to keep up but the rich business owner or greedy tax payer will always blame the worker and their cry for better wages. There doesn't need to be disparity between classes based on money. We all should be equal and share in the American Dream! "FOR EVERYONE"!
1
Actually that is not what we will find out. We will find out that providing all workers with a liveable wage is not only morally empowering but economically empowering as well. Consumer spending is the greatest economic stimulant this country had and has. Being paid close to what any individual is worth provides them with the security and confidence to have and spend more discretionary income. Besides the increase in employee pay to a liveable wage can and should be easily absorbed by overpaid glutinous top executives and CEO's - no need for it to be passed on to consumers.
1
"Victory for labor groups"? That's hilarious. This is a victory for anti-labor groups--groups who are against people laboring. This is so because this law will reduce employment, reducing labor.
5
What are you saying? That there needs to be low-wage labor! What's your point?? Are you saying that it's ok for people to suffer and merely get by on a meager existence? Work all day long only to put profits in the business owners pockets they work for?? How are you wired - mentally?
4
I disagree! Even though this law will reduce employment, it's STILL a victory for "labor groups" cuz many people will still be working! Absolutely!
1
I'm in favor of reducing labor that doesn't give people fair recompense for the work they do.
To me this is just a lie to keep workers quiet until 2020 when then "the decision" will be changed due to the difficult financial situation of the job creators.
That's what will happen, I bet.
That's what will happen, I bet.
2
And you can bet this will happen while the profit margins of those same job creators will never have been as healthy as before.
Since the minimum wage has never once in history gone down, this is mere idle speculation.
McDonalds has 20% profit margin, $30B in revenue. Paying a livable wage will not make them go broke
21
Yeah so that's one company that has global scale
Michael
More than 80% of McDonalds restaurants are owned by franchisees, not McDonalds. Common misperception.
More than 80% of McDonalds restaurants are owned by franchisees, not McDonalds. Common misperception.
1
Actually it's 17.34%. Only 25% of the restaurants are company operated. The rest are franchisee run and will be highly affected. Also, roughly 50% of their profit comes from rent and not necessarily sales.
Receiving a "livable wage" and working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives will ensure that they stay broke. To assume that those increases in cost would come out of the profits is ridiculous. Shareholders chase profits not social justice.
Receiving a "livable wage" and working at McDonalds for the rest of their lives will ensure that they stay broke. To assume that those increases in cost would come out of the profits is ridiculous. Shareholders chase profits not social justice.
1
Hope they can afford the new $12 In 'N' Out Burger.
In European countries that pay at least $15 an hour, the cost of a Big Mac is actually less!
That takes a big bite out of your argument.
That takes a big bite out of your argument.
8
That's the wrong company to bring up, they already pay their employees more most, and offer benefits, Pick another company, and your wrong about burgers and fast food going up it's a percentage of the total cost of the product. In Seattle which will have a $15 hr wage in a few years before LA the price of a $6 meal went to $6.50 in some Seattle stores so it really wasn't a big deal prices could go up 10 percent because of this so a $5 burger could be $5.50. But you really do think like a conservative / republican. Let them work for peanuts.
I'm on layoff from my $22hr job. If I don't get recalled soon, I know where I will be relocating. Thank you California.
3
Better check the rental rates before you get too excited about making that move.
so prices just go up. people buy less. workers get fired. entrepreneurs figure out how to eliminate more jobs. minimum wage = unnatrual.
5
Nonsense. The rich will just make less of a profit.
6
To the point where everybody is poor, businesses have no more consumers and they go out of business themselves. Only the uber-rich remain... They better live in heavily-guarded enclaves to defend against the vast majority of the population that lives in the ghetto.
Regulations. including the minimum wage, exist to prevent just that.
Regulations. including the minimum wage, exist to prevent just that.
The idiocy of the claim the fast food jobs are temporary and not intended as careers or as real jobs for adults shows itself most plainly in the very successes of fast food franchises. These business models are no longer mom-and-pop burger stands. Rather, they have become multi-national corporations which make millions/billions annually with CEOs and stockholders making millions, also. It's time to stop the two-faced lie about unworthy workers - it only serves line the pockets of CEOs while keeping their fellow Americans working at what are rightfully called 'slave wages.'
11
The idiocy is to claim that flipping a burger job is a full time career. It is a job that anyone can do. It requires no experience, no education...of the 156 million people in the labor force...all 156 million can do that job. That is a huge supply of potential employees.
Those CEO's WORKED their way UP, they didn't sit behind the grill all their life expecting to get paid more for a job that anyone can do. They did things to make themselves WORTH MORE. They got an education and/or had skills that they used to make themselves worth more on top of working their butt off. That is called IMPROVING yourself. Rather than trying to go with the communist way of keeping people down, dumb, stupid and shared misery. Lets give people incentives to BETTER THEMSELVES, a good way to do that is to NOT pay them $15 an hour for a job anyone can do.
Also this minimum wage hike will affect ma and pop businesses into extinction. So good job on that idiocy.
Those CEO's WORKED their way UP, they didn't sit behind the grill all their life expecting to get paid more for a job that anyone can do. They did things to make themselves WORTH MORE. They got an education and/or had skills that they used to make themselves worth more on top of working their butt off. That is called IMPROVING yourself. Rather than trying to go with the communist way of keeping people down, dumb, stupid and shared misery. Lets give people incentives to BETTER THEMSELVES, a good way to do that is to NOT pay them $15 an hour for a job anyone can do.
Also this minimum wage hike will affect ma and pop businesses into extinction. So good job on that idiocy.
4
So what are parents going to use to buy food for their children for the next five years? By that time, they will be teenagers and doing whatever it takes to get a few bucks for drugs or alcohol, and maybe even food. But you can bet your sweet bippy that the majority of children, raised by parents making $8-10 per hour, are not prepping for college. Why is the increase to a livable wage not going into effect now or January 2016, at the latest? I know, politicians would explain it with, blah blah balh, but it's really just putting if off as long as possible, while getting credit for passing this bill. And it gives the GOP time to somehow get it shot down before 2020.
Let me increase your living expenses by 66.7% starting Jan 1 2016. Do you think you could get your finances in order to weather that great of an increase in expenses within the next 6 months? Raise the temperature slowly enough and the lobster doesn't realize that he's cooked.
Why should they be "prepping for college" if they're making good money?!!? Why waste $$$ on college if it's NOT needed?!!?
Your lack of economics is sad and this will just create more poor, not reduce it.
In these days of high inflation, the most hit are the workers, who form the major section of the society. With prices of all essential commodities sky rocketing, the working class are just unable to feed, clothe and educate their family decently. This wage increase will certainly help them live a better life. However, the burden of this wage increase should not be fastened on the consumers by companies and organizations where they work. Agreed, the U.S. is a capitalist country. But the big companies should be kind enough to cut down their profits and help workers and the consumers till economy is stable.
7
That is the day I would pull my position in that stock. Even as a retail investor I pay close attention to the financials and I chase profits not goodwill.
1
"should be kind enough to cut down their profits and help workers and the consumers till economy is stable" That is not what is currently happening by a long shot. On the contrary. Corporations are sufficiently short-sighted that they are willing to take the risk to make the economy "unstable" and go out of business themselves as a result (well, they should seriously consider that hurting the demand continuously is going to hurt their bottom line... eventually).
So when they don't listen, what should the government do? Regulate! (and do it well... Which they don't really... Which is not surprising given who they serve)
So when they don't listen, what should the government do? Regulate! (and do it well... Which they don't really... Which is not surprising given who they serve)
With the raise comes respect. No longer will low wage workers be looked down upon. It will also give workers an incentive to stay on the job and slow down turn-over for the employer and making for a more pleasant work environment.
7
Low wage workers are not looked down upon because of the wage they make, but rather because the duties they performed are not complex i.e., require no schooling. The wage increase unfortunately will not change that view.
4
...and it is that view that undermines the fact that all men are created equal .
This will draw uneducated and unskilled workers from places further south than anyone has imagined. It will make robots and self-checkout more feasible. Nothing wrong with more demand for automation, except that it's all imported.
3
Cognex will profit from this. Their stock is a bargain and they are US based. Enjoy.
A lot of minimum wage jobs were originally intended for the young and part timers. Now, they go to folks trying to support a family. Los Angeles is saying adjust to this new reality or go out of business. Some will adjust. Some will go out of business. This isn't rocket science. A change like this will require federal funding of a larger safety net. Taxes will rise or the deficit will increase. We will be faced with hard choices. Raising the minimum wage is the easy part.
4
We'll get around to it here in NYC - in a few years or so. By then a living wage will be $20 an hour and we'll be at - what $12? But first, the City Council wants to hire more cops to stop the scourge of looseys.
50% of New Yorkers living in poverty. No wonder de Blasio didn't attend the Met Gala. But at least we have the Clinton Foundation helping everyone but New Yorkers in poverty. How's Bloomberg's Foundation doing?
LA leads, NYC lags.
Biscotti anyone? Poverty is such an inconvenience, isn't it?
50% of New Yorkers living in poverty. No wonder de Blasio didn't attend the Met Gala. But at least we have the Clinton Foundation helping everyone but New Yorkers in poverty. How's Bloomberg's Foundation doing?
LA leads, NYC lags.
Biscotti anyone? Poverty is such an inconvenience, isn't it?
4
If paying workers $15/hour is a good thing, why not make it $50/hour? These mandatory wages are likely unconstitutional. How can hiring volunteers be legal?
1
Why would minimum wages be unconstitutional all of a sudden? We've had them for about 80 years.
This is good. The federal minimum wage is exploitative, which of course is why it so popular. Many employers will now opt to pay "off the books" or whatever but so what? As long as the legal minimum is set, that will mean a lot. For many, especially the young, who are confronted with the pros and cons of working for an hourly wage or accepting welfare entitlements, I hope this makes a difference because no matter how humble your job when you're young, it will lead to better and better things if you set your mind to it. It is infinitely better than not working and living off the dole.
1
This is ludicrous. Who knows what $15 an hour will even be worth in five years. Let's be honest - that much is just about minimum wage RIGHT NOW.
5
Minimum wage is defined as the minimum wage an employer is required to pay for services rendered. What you are referring to is a living wage. A living wage is truly socialistic as it comes to a predetermined outcome without factoring in the process of obtaining said outcome. Investors/owners take risk ALL the risk and are entitled to ALL of the profit. Employees take NO risk and receive NO profit. When investors/owners lose control of the vehicle they've created to make profit, cashing out becomes a more attractive option than being forced to pay 66.7% more for the same amount of work. That 66.7% either cuts into the bottom line, passes onto the consumer or a combination of the two. If the costs are passed to the consumer it would negate a great portion of the increase in wages.
1
That's all I know is that I will gladly pay the increase in minimum wage, multiply it by two, pass those costs on to my consumers, and make more money myself. Isn't America great.
NO, it isn't! Minimum wage isn't "NEAR" that much right now, dang it! It's truly a very "sad state of affairs!"
Here's how $16.87 per hour/$649.80 per 38 hr week minimum wage based upon union work rules for apprentices and unskilled jobs are applied here. University students working part time in unskilled jobs in state enterprises such as ticket takers on trains earn up to $300 per shift on holidays. Medium sized businesses and larger resturants or chains pay up to $42 per hour.
Two goals:
First to ease the handover. Family (reunion) SMEs are exempt from non-competitive work rules and wages. 250K homeless in LA will increase to bypass reporting rules for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs such as in assembling technical/value added components manufactured offshore.
Secondly to expedite federal subsidies/grants/discretionary redistribution of tax revenues to California (exempt from bankruptcy via US Constitution) and LA County and City of LA via threats of filing Chap 9 reorganization plans.
In effect the "San Bernadino County Effect" of building subdivisions and jobs will come will multiply. Offshore sovereign investments masked as private enterprises are acquiring large illiquid Florida companies, bidding on far fetched California Proposition-approved projects and buying townships/cities and counties' infrastructure at bargain basement prices.
Chap 7 becomes a form of "unfunded federal mandate" -- actually a serial of mandates as one reorg plan after another fails every decade or so.
Two goals:
First to ease the handover. Family (reunion) SMEs are exempt from non-competitive work rules and wages. 250K homeless in LA will increase to bypass reporting rules for unskilled and semi-skilled jobs such as in assembling technical/value added components manufactured offshore.
Secondly to expedite federal subsidies/grants/discretionary redistribution of tax revenues to California (exempt from bankruptcy via US Constitution) and LA County and City of LA via threats of filing Chap 9 reorganization plans.
In effect the "San Bernadino County Effect" of building subdivisions and jobs will come will multiply. Offshore sovereign investments masked as private enterprises are acquiring large illiquid Florida companies, bidding on far fetched California Proposition-approved projects and buying townships/cities and counties' infrastructure at bargain basement prices.
Chap 7 becomes a form of "unfunded federal mandate" -- actually a serial of mandates as one reorg plan after another fails every decade or so.
They are raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2020. That is 5 years from now. This is considered progress in the US today? This country is a joke. Now the people in LA can look forward to the day in 5 years from now when they can earn $15 an hour, and still not be able to afford food, shelter and clothing with their wages from a full time job.
4
That's just ridiculous, claiming they still won't be able to "afford food, shelter, and clothing" w/their wages from a full time job! When I worked at Target and Walmart, two different times, respectively, I had no trouble at all "making ends meet!"
What do you suggest—a $50,000 minimum annual salary with pension? Now that is what I call a joke. Maybe you should consider moving to Europe. I understand they can appreciate a good joke.
So instead of 35% of the L.A. economy operating in cash, it will go up to half?
2
The guy at the car wash that towels off my car has an iPhone 6. Raising the minimum wage may certainly help some, buy we can't fix stupid financial decisions. He is only one example of many in similar circumstances. I have an iPhone 5 and make many multiples of the minimum wage... sometimes it's about choices.
5
Absolutely, Mike, in Philadelphia, PA! It IS all abt life's "choices" and free will! NO doubt! I'm not surprised that someone at a car wash has an iPhone 6; not surprised in the least!
If LA employers can absorb this, it's a great idea. If they can't, there will be a mess. If the federal minimum wage weren't so ridiculously low and if cities like L.A. made periodic raises, that would make a lot more sense than a $7.25 federal minimum and a $9 L.A. minimum. There is no excuse for letting the minimum lag so far behind all common sense and then raising it in one fell swoop to where it belongs. That's bad government. And it jeopardizes reasonable progress by letting the private sector exploit workers for far too long.
1
Factoring in inflation, $15 per hour by 2020 does not go very far and workers who earn minimum wage in 2020 will be right where they are today. Why not mandate $15 per hour in one to two years and index the minimum wage to the annual inflation rate? Any increase to the minimum wage per hour that does not index it to the annual inflation rate will not improve the living standard of the minimum wage workers.
2
It'll "work" if people don't live "beyond their means!" If people would "do" that, they wouldn't have to worry abt the annual inflation rate because they'd have "$$$ to live on" cuz they WEREN'T living "beyond their means!"
Raising the minimum wage is a good idea...whether its $15 or some other amount should be reviewed by legitimate economists to be justified....with that said, especially with the implementation of the Affordable Healthcare Act, why is there still workmen compensation? It has been mostly a boondoggle for the insurance industry and even the state rife with corruption, costs overrun and gamesmanship....also curb ambulance chasing lawyers who add to the cost of doing business unnecessarily
Does this raise apply to illegal immigrants?
3
This is truly significant economic news. We're going to find out if a $15 minimum wage, implemented on a large scale, is sustainable over time or proves to be unworkable. I hope for the former.
1
Businesses who can will move out of the Peoples Republic of Los Angeles. It's outrageous to pay burger flippers $15 per hour. These jobs are for teenagers and college students, not HS dropouts supporting a family of five. Who will want to pay $5 for a cheeseburger?
2
I doubt that anyone who criticizes someone who works in the restaurant industry has any idea how hard a job it is.
1
I will be happy to pay it if it means better wages for workers. It's why I shop at Costco and not Walmart.
The people making a living wage will contribute more to social security and medicare, making those programs more solvent.These people will also buy more and improve life for everyone. The monsters are the people who take their money to overseas tax havens or horde that money or worse yet use it to buy elected officials to give them even more special tax breaks and public support for the corporations that they own.
3
There will be fewer people working, and fewer hours worked by people working. That's how economics works when commanding price minima. You get less of what you set a minimum price on, in this case, labor. That, in turn, means, that the people making a minimum wage (they're already living) will be fewer and their number will in total be paying less in Social Security and Medicare taxes.
The money you think will be paid in increased earnings is already being paid to others. All this will do is reduce the employability of people whose labor doesn't produce a value above whatever the minimum wage is set at.
The money you think will be paid in increased earnings is already being paid to others. All this will do is reduce the employability of people whose labor doesn't produce a value above whatever the minimum wage is set at.
Hopefully, they'll contribute more to social security and Medicare!
Glad I don't live in California. As this will increase the price of products by a large margin. At least they can stop complaining about people eating so much fast food. People won't be able to afford the new hire prices, so they will go less or not at all. Then those stores will close and people won't have any jobs. California there is a reason you're a financial sink hole, it's because you have no clue how economics works and run off your good feelers instead of logic.
3
Um, we have a budget surplus. 2015 is expected to close with record breaking revenue. But, thanks for playing.
That's speculation.
If McDonalds raised its wages to $15 an hour each Big Mac would cost $0.10 more each.
Another thing companies could do is look at reducing executive compensation.
If McDonalds raised its wages to $15 an hour each Big Mac would cost $0.10 more each.
Another thing companies could do is look at reducing executive compensation.
1
Our GDP is higher than Indiana's, we have a budget surplus, again. You must be thinking about the California under a Republican Governor. San Francisco has a higher minimum wage this year and the stores are begging for workers....You just can't believe Laffer.
This is how you draw skilled workers to your city. Trickle-up economics. The whole city will benefit as employees with more disposable income vastly increase local consumer spending.
3
no this is how you draw unskilled workers to your city, by paying unskilled jobs just as much as you pay skilled jobs...
Yes, but consumer spending isn't always a GOOD thing! In many ways, it is, to a large degree!
I recently moved to Phoenix Arizona for a job advancement yet I see how low the wages are here in comparison to the cost of living. I applaud Los Angeles for forward thinking.
5
When cities start administrating minimum wages that go far beyond the worth of a job, we will all be in trouble. Oops.
If the minimum wage is meant to keep an employee out of poverty, should the employee's living arrangement be given any consideration? 2 minimum wage workers in the same household will be making $30 per hour, but a single person will still be close to poverty.
1
How would a single person be close to poverty, if they live "within their means?!!?"
So just what does a $15 per hour, 40 hr work week bring home on an after tax basis in LA?
$20,700 a year
$1,725 a month
Net aboiut $57 a day
$57
Take out rent and auto expenses, and what remains is a pittance.
Yet the ideology crowd crows about the extravagance of $15/hr
The corruption of a free-market and Mom & Pop shops going b'rupt, other lies.
Poppycock
For anyone to feel callous towards honest hard working people who make in a year what many of us spend in a month is a sad commentary indeed.
They deserve our respect, not insults.
$20,700 a year
$1,725 a month
Net aboiut $57 a day
$57
Take out rent and auto expenses, and what remains is a pittance.
Yet the ideology crowd crows about the extravagance of $15/hr
The corruption of a free-market and Mom & Pop shops going b'rupt, other lies.
Poppycock
For anyone to feel callous towards honest hard working people who make in a year what many of us spend in a month is a sad commentary indeed.
They deserve our respect, not insults.
12
Your numbers are way off. $15/hour, for a 40 hour work week is $600/week. Multiplied by 50 weeks per year comes out to $30,000 per year.
I assume that your figure of $20,700 per year is meant to account for taxes. But someone making $30,000 per year does not pay $9,300 (31%) in income taxes, even including FICA. Not even close to that much.
Not a princely income by any means, but inaccurate info doesn't advance the discussion.
I assume that your figure of $20,700 per year is meant to account for taxes. But someone making $30,000 per year does not pay $9,300 (31%) in income taxes, even including FICA. Not even close to that much.
Not a princely income by any means, but inaccurate info doesn't advance the discussion.
4
My suggestion, if you can't afford to live in an overpriced market......move.
Or utilize some of the practices that migrant workers use:
Public transportation
Communal living
Thrift stores
Buy in bulk
Cut non essential services (Cable: $733/year, prem. ph. service w/data: $1200/year)
Sell blood plasma
Eat on less than $5 per day (more prep effort but possible)
Also, the phrase "honest, hard working people" is misleading. It essentially implies that you know each individual personally and can attest to the quality of their character and work ethic. It's similar to the phrase "common sense actions" that people use when pushing gun restrictions.
I don't feel callous towards these individuals, I just feel like they should improve their marketable skills instead of expect to thrive in a minimum wage environment. This rate increase is the grown up version of a little league participation trophy.
Or utilize some of the practices that migrant workers use:
Public transportation
Communal living
Thrift stores
Buy in bulk
Cut non essential services (Cable: $733/year, prem. ph. service w/data: $1200/year)
Sell blood plasma
Eat on less than $5 per day (more prep effort but possible)
Also, the phrase "honest, hard working people" is misleading. It essentially implies that you know each individual personally and can attest to the quality of their character and work ethic. It's similar to the phrase "common sense actions" that people use when pushing gun restrictions.
I don't feel callous towards these individuals, I just feel like they should improve their marketable skills instead of expect to thrive in a minimum wage environment. This rate increase is the grown up version of a little league participation trophy.
1
Your math is highly suspect. $15/hour exceeds $30,000 per year at 40 hours
So if the workers at McDonalds makes $15.00 how much extra will the average meal cost? 50 cents? A dollar? I'm not so cheap that I want people to be exploited so I can save 50 cents.
6
Several comments repeat the discredited arguments that racing the minimum wage of workers is akin to the end of US capitalism as we have known it. Wages of US hourly employees has remained stagnant for almost three decades where business profits over the same period have increased between 123% - 178%. Increased profits have gone almost exclusively to senior executives,business owners and shareholders. Domestic GDP growth for the first quarter was been zero. Contrast to stock market indices are up over 35% since the end of 2014.
Our consumer based economy primarily consists of hourly wages earners who will be getting the raises over a five year period. Other hourly wages and salaries will be adjusted upwards as well. These consumers will come into the same business mandated to increase hourly wages and spend substantial portions of their raises. The increases in wage expenditures will be more than covered by modest non inflationary price increases and additional business revenue. The impact on national GDP growth as more large metropolitan areas adopt similar living wage policies should be substantial.
So the "chicken little" predictions the economic sky is falling due to long overdue increases in minimum wages is misplaced and reactionary.
Our consumer based economy primarily consists of hourly wages earners who will be getting the raises over a five year period. Other hourly wages and salaries will be adjusted upwards as well. These consumers will come into the same business mandated to increase hourly wages and spend substantial portions of their raises. The increases in wage expenditures will be more than covered by modest non inflationary price increases and additional business revenue. The impact on national GDP growth as more large metropolitan areas adopt similar living wage policies should be substantial.
So the "chicken little" predictions the economic sky is falling due to long overdue increases in minimum wages is misplaced and reactionary.
16
How many government employees fall below that $15/hr threshold? How will this affect property taxes? How will this impact LACERA? How will this promote the creation of new businesses within the affected area? How many people will lose benefits due to increases in earned income? How many people will be deemed unemployable at that rate? How much of a push will we see towards automated business models?
This is equivalent to a 10.76% annual increase in wages. This outpaces historical inflation by 3x. We are currently at -0.1% deflation for the trailing quarter. Yes there is wage stagnation but people aren't putting two and two together. The reported unemployment rate is misleading. There are plenty of people willing to work those low paying jobs and until employment saturation increases wages will stay stagnant. Mandating higher wages will have a negative impact on employment saturation and eventually decrease tax revenue while increasing entitlements.
This is equivalent to a 10.76% annual increase in wages. This outpaces historical inflation by 3x. We are currently at -0.1% deflation for the trailing quarter. Yes there is wage stagnation but people aren't putting two and two together. The reported unemployment rate is misleading. There are plenty of people willing to work those low paying jobs and until employment saturation increases wages will stay stagnant. Mandating higher wages will have a negative impact on employment saturation and eventually decrease tax revenue while increasing entitlements.
2
There's empathy for the small business owner who may struggle. As for larger Corporations, it's way past time to reward the hard work of good, underpaid employees.
What would make this even better is if it were to come at the expense of a few less stock options, lower pay for the Exec staff, and lower quarterly profits for stockholders. Sadly, Wall Street's insatiable bloodlust will assure that doesn't happen.
What would make this even better is if it were to come at the expense of a few less stock options, lower pay for the Exec staff, and lower quarterly profits for stockholders. Sadly, Wall Street's insatiable bloodlust will assure that doesn't happen.
7
Really hope the difference will come from the corporate executive salaries. Its really insane how much money they can make. I get that they are talented individuals but wow making in the millions while the rest of the population fight for a higher minimum wage. Even professional workers like doctors and engineers don't even come close.
Maybe there should be a law capping maximum salaries of executives so the profits of the company can go toward other things like the employees or cheaper products for consumers. People say then all the best executives won't work there anymore. That sounds like a poor excuse considering some of our best minds work in medicine and research for far less.
Maybe there should be a law capping maximum salaries of executives so the profits of the company can go toward other things like the employees or cheaper products for consumers. People say then all the best executives won't work there anymore. That sounds like a poor excuse considering some of our best minds work in medicine and research for far less.
7
ZZZZ
You are welcome to think of a great product or service that everyone wants, risk your life savings to start your own company, become wildly profitable, and then put the profits toward whatever you want. But until then, please, keep your hands out of my pockets, and don't pass laws that tell other people how to spend their own money, and what they should pay therr officers or employees.
You are welcome to think of a great product or service that everyone wants, risk your life savings to start your own company, become wildly profitable, and then put the profits toward whatever you want. But until then, please, keep your hands out of my pockets, and don't pass laws that tell other people how to spend their own money, and what they should pay therr officers or employees.
1
I live in the city of Los Angeles and this couldn't come soon enough. Frankly, they should take it all the way to $20/hr.
Anybody screaming about job losses is most likely an employer who has been happily exploiting his workers for too long.
You can't get by on today's minimum wage in Los Angeles. You can't even get by on $15/hr!
Anybody screaming about job losses is most likely an employer who has been happily exploiting his workers for too long.
You can't get by on today's minimum wage in Los Angeles. You can't even get by on $15/hr!
6
Your not supposed to get by on min wage. That's the point, you better yourself to achieve pay better than min wage. But now we don't want to do that, we would rather legislate the pay increase instead
There hasn't been a new job creatied in the CIty of Los Angeles in over 20 years....total employment fell after the riots and have never recovered. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Why $15? Why not $30 or $50?
6
Common sense?
2
As a house painter of 12+ years, I make 15 bucks an hour. Took 5 years of learning to get to that point...I know, aim high in life. Anyways, I sub-contract for a guy who charges 20 bucks an hour to the home owner. He takes 5 and pays 15 to me. As in finding steady paint work is a job in itself. If this happens here, we'll then go to the model of 40 bucks an hour and I'll get paid 30 an hour. SO a job that would have cost a home owner for one room 250 bucks, will shoot to 500. People will freak when they realize raising the min wage is pretty much doubling the cost of some of their home improvement projects, if the home owner can stand the sticker shock.
Please explain for those of us perhaps lacking in such sense. Where does this $15 number come from? How does one arrive at it?
So when do we implement this for the enlisted military, who actually face daily danger in their jobs. and often need Food Stamps/EBT to feed thier families?
2
soon as we can i hope. we protect corporate loopholes and speculators (who only damage the real economy) while taking advantage of folks who work and do good.
1
Nobody forced them to join the military and face danger. If they don't like it, they can quit or never join in the first place.
This will simply increase the speed at which fast food customers will be able to select their purchases via touch screen technology that already exists. A 50% increase in the cost of human capital simply makes the technological capital more economically efficient. See where the rate of unemployment for the unskilled is in three to five years. CVS has already eliminated cashiers in many of its stores. Self service will be the way of the future - it was called the automat 50 years ago.
12
"CVS has already eliminated cashiers in many of its stores."
Indeed they have, and I stopped shopping at CVS as a result.
Indeed they have, and I stopped shopping at CVS as a result.
1
Go to Newark Airport - all of the remodeled food establishments make you order on an iPad. There is still one cashier, but it has cut back on staff.
2
I don't believe that's true, if it really came down to large corporations not hiring real employees the lower/middle class would completely boycott the company that is obviously the reason why they have no jobs and small businesses would grow. You seem to forget the only reason a business stays in business is because of the population.
This raise is long overdue. A lot of 1%ers have been making fat profits by grossly underpaying their workers, giving them 10 and 15 cent "raises". I am disappointed that there is a large loophole for "nonprofits". I hope that those organizations, which represent about 10% of the workforce, will be shamed into doing the right thing. I'll be interested to see what happens with health benefits because the raise could result in people being kicked off Medi-Cal and into Obamacare which I hear isn't as good. I think the state should get a waiver to expand Medi-Cal eligibility at the same time to avoid this.
2
Let me know if you still feel this way when the blood is rushing to your head after the tax man turns you upside down to pay for this.
Inflation? What inflation? We need more quantitative easing (money printing). Thank you, Ben Bernanke and Janet Yellen. This is the result of a command economy. We should have let Wall Street and the banks fail.
6
I will be looking to invest in robotics startups asap and short any business that provides opportunity for entry level jobs. When you pay unskilled workers at these levels, there is a huge incentive to eliminate unskilled labor.
12
I wonder how many jobs are now going to be automated or just not done? How many businesses will close up and leave LA? How many skilled workers or college graduates will be paid less so that unskilled labor can make $15/hour.
Most of those people cheering have never run a small business.
Most of those people cheering have never run a small business.
12
If a business becomes automated i believe the people would be smart enough to boycott it and shop at places where actual people work for the sake of not having a large portion of the population jobless and rioting.
1
It is true that government should strive not to place additional burdens on small businesses. Perhaps a tax cut for the struggling, small businesses would be in order, just so they have a chance to grow (give them some tax credit the first few years). Well-established businesses can take up some of this burden.
An increase from nine dollars an hour to 15 over a period of five years amounts to a dollar 20 Increase per hour. No one knows for sure what will happen to our economy in the next five years or for that matter all economies around the world. Even at $15 an hour today it is impossible to make a decent living in LA.
Some countries have a five year financial plan. I am not sure the US has that as well. The manner in which events are unfolding so rapidly and chaotically any prediction is at best wishful thinking.
Is it another promissory note before the coming elections?
Some countries have a five year financial plan. I am not sure the US has that as well. The manner in which events are unfolding so rapidly and chaotically any prediction is at best wishful thinking.
Is it another promissory note before the coming elections?
1
A $15 dollar minimum wage puts immense upwards pressure on wages throughout the lower rungs of the economy, right up to management level. This is a good thing.
What's disappointing about this move is that the full impact is delayed until 2020. For a person in a minimum wage job, that 5 years might prove an eternity. Many will not even live long enough to enjoy it.
What's disappointing about this move is that the full impact is delayed until 2020. For a person in a minimum wage job, that 5 years might prove an eternity. Many will not even live long enough to enjoy it.
15
Are you high? This is going to cause the price of products to skyrocket and up the cost of living putting things worse of then they were! Why you ask? The production costs just went up! It costs a company more to produce something because they have to pay someone $15 and hour to do something you can train a monkey to do! Good night man do you not understand basic economics? This is also going cause a lot of jobs to be lost because small businesses' cannot afford to pay this ridiculous prices.
This is also going to hit thrift stores that rely on donations, like the Youth Ranch or DI which are either going to have to raise their prices (defeating the purpose of a thrift store) and/or let people go. These places help people learn work skills and gives them a starting jobs helping them learn work ethics. Now there will be less of those jobs.
This is also going to hit thrift stores that rely on donations, like the Youth Ranch or DI which are either going to have to raise their prices (defeating the purpose of a thrift store) and/or let people go. These places help people learn work skills and gives them a starting jobs helping them learn work ethics. Now there will be less of those jobs.
1
Maybe those people could improve their skills rather than demanding an unearned wage increase.
So, by your reasoning, any increase in the minimum wage is bad for workers. And you accuse Mr Carnicelli of being high!
What about Sea-Tac in Washington? First place to pass $15 an hour, led by workers!
4
If all of the workers making less than $10/hr. don't show up for work tomorrow, consumers will suffer. If all of the overpaid CEO's call in sick, no one will even notice.
21
Except the CEOs won't be able to plan to build any new factories and there won't be any new jobs for anyone.
3
Amy: New jobs at poverty wages? No thanks.
4
Scott, no doubt a goodly number of CEOs are overpaid, however you may want to define that. But the notion that people at that level just sit back and do nothing, lighting cigars with hundred bills and whose absence would never be missed, it simply inane.
2
Good for the LA City Council and the many workers who will benefit. Well-functioning free markets require standards like this one.
4
I remember when cotton picking was done by hand, people were paid to pump gas, and people used to dispense your soda for you. You did not have to bag your own groceries, there were telephone operators to help you with long distance connections, and there were no automated devices to connect you to the correct party.
Higher wages made these jobs obsolete. McDonalds will find a way to reduce workers by using automatic floor cleaners and automatic hamburger makers, fryers will become automated, and a pie dispenser will give you apple, cherry, or pumpkin.
Higher wages made these jobs obsolete. McDonalds will find a way to reduce workers by using automatic floor cleaners and automatic hamburger makers, fryers will become automated, and a pie dispenser will give you apple, cherry, or pumpkin.
4
I highly doubt that juiced up labor rates relative to the skill would lend to the definition of a free-market.
2
You failed economics didn't you?
1
$15/hour by 2020? How about tomorrow?
15
How about $50/hour by tomorrow?
2
So...what is going to go first? 1. Food quality 2. Employees 3. Prices. Those are the choices, and at least one of those things will happen. Either the food will go down (even further) in quality, some employees will go, and/or prices will go up.
This is the upshot: To (seemingly) benefit a few, either some employees will lose their jobs, or people on the edge of poverty or lower will suffer even more with higher prices. Also, even those people with higher wages will end up paying more everywhere else, which means they basically will be making the same amount when it all comes out in the wash. But those who are poor already will be poorer still.
Also: will the people who are making above minimum wage also get an increase? Otherwise, those who have worked hard to get raises will find themselves making the same amount as everyone else. Doesn't seem fair in any case.
This is the upshot: To (seemingly) benefit a few, either some employees will lose their jobs, or people on the edge of poverty or lower will suffer even more with higher prices. Also, even those people with higher wages will end up paying more everywhere else, which means they basically will be making the same amount when it all comes out in the wash. But those who are poor already will be poorer still.
Also: will the people who are making above minimum wage also get an increase? Otherwise, those who have worked hard to get raises will find themselves making the same amount as everyone else. Doesn't seem fair in any case.
4
This one is obvious: Workers will go. Look, if an employer has to pay every worker over 30k a year, the first thing he'll have to do is let workers go. There are so many jobs that simply cannot justify that kind of wage. Employers will surely look to replace worker with technology--they will have to in order to remain in business. Just a fact.
5
Why not lower franchise fees? Why not lower dividends for mcdonalds suppliers shareholders? Why not lower sales commissions for deep fryer sales people. What a nutty view of business to think the only costs are those visible at the final point of sale!
1
TJE and James,
You both neglected one other possibility, especially relevant in Los Angeles. How many employers will move jobs under the table? If you have work that must be done or you shut down, but paying people $15/hr to do it also shuts you down, paying someone $10/hr under the table will be an attractive option. And we know there are plenty of people who will take that deal, or less.
You both neglected one other possibility, especially relevant in Los Angeles. How many employers will move jobs under the table? If you have work that must be done or you shut down, but paying people $15/hr to do it also shuts you down, paying someone $10/hr under the table will be an attractive option. And we know there are plenty of people who will take that deal, or less.
1
I am about as left-leaning as you can get, but this truly upsets me. After a minimum of 5 years at college, we pay our architect-inters $20 to $25 an hour. Are we now saying that skill-less labor earns 75% of what professionals make? I understand the need to earn a living wage, but until the rest of our economy catches up, this truly distorts the market.
9
Why shouldn't the professional earn more too?
6
but we pay useless vampires in the financial sector far more! we are heading toward feudalism unless wages are increased a lot.
4
Absolutely! Raises for everyone!! Just make sure someone else pays.
1
Hmmmm...keep buying those long dated Treasuries people
3
Can someone please answer the question why the City Council just didn't raise it to an amount that is less marginal like say $25/hour or even $50?
And further, if raising the minimum wage so good, why the waiting period to get to a modest $15/hour? Why not mandate the change take place today!
I have no problem with those that support an increase in the minimum wage if they would acknowledge that it's a case of governing on the principal of the greatest good for the greatest number.
In other words, those supporting an increase should at least have the honesty to say to those that may lose their job as a result of the increase, "Yeah, sorry, some will lose their jobs, but more will benefit. Sorry about that.".
Oh, you don't think their is a chance that some will lose their jobs?
Then please answer my first question. And how do you know where the line is. Is the line at $15/hour or $20 or $50 or even $10?
And further, if raising the minimum wage so good, why the waiting period to get to a modest $15/hour? Why not mandate the change take place today!
I have no problem with those that support an increase in the minimum wage if they would acknowledge that it's a case of governing on the principal of the greatest good for the greatest number.
In other words, those supporting an increase should at least have the honesty to say to those that may lose their job as a result of the increase, "Yeah, sorry, some will lose their jobs, but more will benefit. Sorry about that.".
Oh, you don't think their is a chance that some will lose their jobs?
Then please answer my first question. And how do you know where the line is. Is the line at $15/hour or $20 or $50 or even $10?
5
I think that this higher wage doesn't go far enough. Don't these workers deserve to be millionaires? Let's pay them $500 an hour.
Seriously, isn't it funny that most of the movies made by the same Hollywood liberals supporting this minimum wage increase make their movies in foreign countries to cut labor costs?
Seriously, isn't it funny that most of the movies made by the same Hollywood liberals supporting this minimum wage increase make their movies in foreign countries to cut labor costs?
9
The SEIU wrote this legislation, among others. They tried to sneak in a mandatory of 12 vacation days also but that was stripped.
1
It's great that Gov. Cuomo and the like would like to increase the hourly minimum wage to $15- however he must also address the "tipped wage" tax abatement in the state which lowers the hourly wage from the federal minimum to almost $5.00. Ending this loophole is essential to bringing most restaurant employees out of economic insecurity.
3
Then don't expect tips. I as a loyal restaurant patron regularly tip between 20-50% because I understand the wage difference. As soon as that is no longer an issue I might be looking to save some money myself.
In most major cities in this nation, it's barely enough if not outright not enough.
4
Watch the price increases and layoffs that are sure to follow, hurting those this is meant to protect.
4
While I can understand skepticism related to the short term effects on businesses that rely on poverty wages to exist, there is a troubling trend among "comments" section contributors to feel the need to share their resume while commenting on the public policy decision. The fact "you have a MA, or a BA," and do not make $15 an hour (or much more than that) is not an argument against wage hikes, it is an argument for them. All wages go up when the minimum wage does. All wages go up when unions get stronger. Pointing fingers and yelling about the Master's Degree you got adds nothing to the discussion.
41
Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. If you increase the mimum wage... you will increase the cost of living, which is exactly what this will do. Businesses have to spend more money to pay employees, to produce things or provide services. E.g a bunch of Bananas goes from $1 a bunch to $5 a bunch. So to compensate to stay in business they will raise prices. Those at the "poverty" range will stay there, because while their wage went up but so did the cost of everything else. Cost of building a house, cost of groceries, cost of dumping your garbage...all will increase. When a business can't afford to pay 10 employees $15 an hour they will fire X amount to bring their costs down so they can stay in business. A lot of small businesses will end up going out of business. because they can't afford to operate like that.
These jobs, are not careers, they are low skilled jobs, meaning you DON'T need experience, you DON'T need an education. Ergo you are not worth a lot of money. If you WANT to get paid more, get yourself an education and MAKE YOURSELF WORTH MORE.
These jobs, are not careers, they are low skilled jobs, meaning you DON'T need experience, you DON'T need an education. Ergo you are not worth a lot of money. If you WANT to get paid more, get yourself an education and MAKE YOURSELF WORTH MORE.
1
As a recipient of SS Disability and SSI, my $800/month would pay for much less, in such a city or county where the increase was ratified. This kind of increase really needs to be decided by the Federal Government, so that the perils of those on Social Security can also be considered.
Ideally, yes, a citywide raise in salary is a good thing. But the outcome is higher food and gas costs, higher sales taxes to cover the increased cost of taxable items, and no relief for disabled and retired people, whose annual increase is less than the rising inflation rate.
Ideally, yes, a citywide raise in salary is a good thing. But the outcome is higher food and gas costs, higher sales taxes to cover the increased cost of taxable items, and no relief for disabled and retired people, whose annual increase is less than the rising inflation rate.
3
Or people get an education and make themselves worth more. These are not career jobs, they are not intended to be and they are jobs anyone can do and do not require an education to do. Ergo, they should not make more because they feel like they should. This will just increase the cost of living and they will be right back or worse off than where they started.
1
Yoo hoo folks, wake up. The union SEIU is behind this minimum wage debacle. It's phony, does NOT put more money into the hands of the employees, and puts small businesses at risk. Google SEIU, Fight for 15, and see how pervasive their message is, how much of their budget they spend on paying people to protest - it's horrible tactics and I'm shocked dumb LA fell for it.
7
And how does an increase to $15.00/hr not put money into the hands of employees? Sounds like more republican "good is bad; bad is good" psychobabble again.
3
You don't know what you're talking about. I'm retired and I have I nice SEIU pension to go with my social Security. What's your problem with that? I was lucky. I worked for a company where the owner wanted his employees to be well paid and have a nice life because they made the business go. Why should the 1% get all the goodies?
1
Ricky,
We don't know exactly what will happen, but if, for example, 100,000 people are making $10/hr now and in the future, 50,000 people make $15/hr and 50,000 have no job, less money goes into the 'hands of employees'.
We don't know exactly what will happen, but if, for example, 100,000 people are making $10/hr now and in the future, 50,000 people make $15/hr and 50,000 have no job, less money goes into the 'hands of employees'.
Great ... time to increase the rent to all my tenants. These career politicians have no clue how the economy or business works. They are merely creating an inflationary pressure on their region.
12
Actually JJ as many of these people receive assistance they will be no better or worse off in many cases, a lot will have the same number of dollars in their pocket at the end of the week, but the tax payer will be much better off without full time workers claiming welfare.
3
Why doesn't anyone worry about inflation when a hedge fund manager takes in 500,000,000 in one year?
Under your beliefs, which are apparently inspired by right wing political arguments, those at the lower end should NEVER get any pay raises. Inflation! Let them, as one NY Times commenter said last week, eat out of dumpsters. Plenty of good food there.
It is true that higher wages can create upward movement in prices. This applies especially if wages are raised quickly. What we have at the lower end of our economy, however, is a minimum wage that, 1, will not support one person, let alone a family, living in urban areas and, 2. is below the actual value of the dollar as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Workers at the lower end have been falling behind dramatically. I guess you vote that it should stay that way, forever.
Under your beliefs, which are apparently inspired by right wing political arguments, those at the lower end should NEVER get any pay raises. Inflation! Let them, as one NY Times commenter said last week, eat out of dumpsters. Plenty of good food there.
It is true that higher wages can create upward movement in prices. This applies especially if wages are raised quickly. What we have at the lower end of our economy, however, is a minimum wage that, 1, will not support one person, let alone a family, living in urban areas and, 2. is below the actual value of the dollar as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. Workers at the lower end have been falling behind dramatically. I guess you vote that it should stay that way, forever.
6
I earned $1.26 an hour minimum wage, but if the minimum wage had kept up with the Dow it would be well over $20 an hour today. If a person works a full week and still has to rely on government assistance to get by, it is assistance that is really being given to the employer. We need to pay people a subsistence wage, reduce their dependence on taxpayer support and if it means corporation executives have to trim their pay and benefits, or stockholders get a little less, then so be it.
When the workers at the bottom have more discretionary money, the demand will increase across the market place and will stimulate new jobs. The consumer is the job creator, because when demand is great inventory is used and extra employees are required at the manufacturing and retail sections of the market.
When the workers at the bottom have more discretionary money, the demand will increase across the market place and will stimulate new jobs. The consumer is the job creator, because when demand is great inventory is used and extra employees are required at the manufacturing and retail sections of the market.
32
"...if the minimum wage had kept up with the Dow it would be well over $20 an hour today."
I question your premise: What does the minimum wage have to do with the Dow, and why should they move in tandem?
Wages are based on supply and demand. Consider the fact that we have many more people with Ph.Ds who want to teach (supply) than we have jobs for them (demand). When and if that imbalance changes, so will wages.
But that has nothing to do with the Dow. If you want to tie the two together, would you also agree that when the Dow drops, as it did in 1987, the recent great recession, etc., the minimum wage should drop too?
I question your premise: What does the minimum wage have to do with the Dow, and why should they move in tandem?
Wages are based on supply and demand. Consider the fact that we have many more people with Ph.Ds who want to teach (supply) than we have jobs for them (demand). When and if that imbalance changes, so will wages.
But that has nothing to do with the Dow. If you want to tie the two together, would you also agree that when the Dow drops, as it did in 1987, the recent great recession, etc., the minimum wage should drop too?
2
Great post, thanks! It's not more complicated than that, really. Unless you're sold to some special interests, obviously.
Now Andrew Cuomo can say, "Okay, Los Angeles raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour, I governor of New York will do better and raised it to $20." What about it, Mr. Cuomo?
3
"...the sad truth is a lot of people are going to lose their jobs."
What jobs"
Work that does not pay enough to meet the basic expenses of living is not a "job", it is another form of slavery. It sentences workers to constant fear of not being able to pay rent, buy food, pay for transportation and, in many cases, also leaves them unable to take a day off work because illness.
We have seen at least three decades of gross unfairness to workers in the lower 1/3 of the economy, especially those at the bottom. Protest all you want to, business people, but you pay for everything else you use, don't you? You pay for electricity, water, supplies, everything. You pay what the market demands and you price your goods and services accordingly to make a profit. Workers across America have been told repeatedly: you have to take the hit. For too long.
One of the main problems in places like LA, NY and other major cities is that the market can't provide enough housing to accommodate low wage workers. If low end employers cared about their employees, they would band together to find solutions. Instead, they harvest the desperation and grief of their employees to make themselves richer. This is not inherently evil, but when exploitation goes too far, it is just that, evil.
Big increases can't hit an economy all at once, because those selling to the near poor would simply adjust upward but 15 an hour in 2015 is just a small measure of fairness. Let's for for 20!
http://terryreport.com
What jobs"
Work that does not pay enough to meet the basic expenses of living is not a "job", it is another form of slavery. It sentences workers to constant fear of not being able to pay rent, buy food, pay for transportation and, in many cases, also leaves them unable to take a day off work because illness.
We have seen at least three decades of gross unfairness to workers in the lower 1/3 of the economy, especially those at the bottom. Protest all you want to, business people, but you pay for everything else you use, don't you? You pay for electricity, water, supplies, everything. You pay what the market demands and you price your goods and services accordingly to make a profit. Workers across America have been told repeatedly: you have to take the hit. For too long.
One of the main problems in places like LA, NY and other major cities is that the market can't provide enough housing to accommodate low wage workers. If low end employers cared about their employees, they would band together to find solutions. Instead, they harvest the desperation and grief of their employees to make themselves richer. This is not inherently evil, but when exploitation goes too far, it is just that, evil.
Big increases can't hit an economy all at once, because those selling to the near poor would simply adjust upward but 15 an hour in 2015 is just a small measure of fairness. Let's for for 20!
http://terryreport.com
9
These jobs are not careers, if someone chooses to do a job that anyone can do, that doesn't require an education, doesn't require experience (e.g working at McDonalds), you are not going to get paid much. You are not worth a lot because the supply is massive. Of 156 million Americans in the labor force, all 156 million meet the requirements to do those jobs. Want to get paid more? Get an education.
Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. If you increase the cost of living...which is exactly what this will do. Businesses have to spend more money to pay employees, to produce things or provide services. E.g a bunch of Bananas goes from $1 a bunch to $5 a bunch. Those at the "poverty" range will stay there, because while their wage went up but so did the cost of everything else. Cost of building a house, cost of groceries, cost of dumping your garbage...all will increase. When a business can't afford to pay 10 employees $15 an hour they will fire X amount of employees to bring their costs down so they can stay in business. A lot of small businesses will end up going out of business. Your liberal mind has no grasp of what it takes to run a business and you seem to think companies are endless sources of cash, just like the government sees taxpayers. Get your head out of the clouds.
Your lack of understanding of economics is sad. If you increase the cost of living...which is exactly what this will do. Businesses have to spend more money to pay employees, to produce things or provide services. E.g a bunch of Bananas goes from $1 a bunch to $5 a bunch. Those at the "poverty" range will stay there, because while their wage went up but so did the cost of everything else. Cost of building a house, cost of groceries, cost of dumping your garbage...all will increase. When a business can't afford to pay 10 employees $15 an hour they will fire X amount of employees to bring their costs down so they can stay in business. A lot of small businesses will end up going out of business. Your liberal mind has no grasp of what it takes to run a business and you seem to think companies are endless sources of cash, just like the government sees taxpayers. Get your head out of the clouds.
1
Australia has a national minimum wage that ranges from $16 to $20 an hour depending upon whether the employer provides benefits, including employer contribution of 9% of wages to an individual retirement fund. They have the same businesses we have, with prices not much higher. Company profit margins are lower. There is no observable difference in automation or unemployment rates.
I guess it makes sense that some people would be unhappy when money comes out of one pocket to go into another. But that is happening today when taxpayers subsidize low wage employers with EITC, SNAP, housing subsidies and other taxpayer funded payments. Its all about whose pockets are involved.
I guess it makes sense that some people would be unhappy when money comes out of one pocket to go into another. But that is happening today when taxpayers subsidize low wage employers with EITC, SNAP, housing subsidies and other taxpayer funded payments. Its all about whose pockets are involved.
28
Are you kidding? Have you been to Australia? It's incredibly expensive. Good luck finding a decent house in Sydney for under $1m.
1
So in essence, as other posters before me have mentioned, the US government is subsidizing businesses that are not paying a living wage (since the government has to step in to help those low-wage workers).
I think you are forgetting that 16 yr olds can work in Australia for $8/hr. $14.50/hr does not kick in until 21 yrs old. Few people actually look at that, and many of the McDonalds workers are under 21 save for management. Look up their pay rate for under 21. And then realize they hire young for any shift they can.
Maybe the legions of small businesses that the Republican's love to pay lip-service to will wake up and see that income inequality is hitting them hard. And now maybe they will join the voices demanding that the tax rates on billionaires should be restored to the pre-Reagan/Bush era when the super wealthy paid their fair share.
10
2020 is a long ways a way. Too bad they can't help workers now.
5
It's time that we develop an integrated solution to economic problems such as wage levels. We can pay everyone a living wage, including the unemployed and underemployed, if we put several policies in place that do the following:
1. Ensure that supply of goods and services keeps pace with the increased demand due to increased wages so that inflation remains in check.
2. Ensure that businesses are protected from the impact of increased payroll.
How do we do this? New technology offers vast potential for information acquisition and analysis. Using this potential we can develop a far more nimble, adaptable and individualized tax process that will address the above 2 points and more. At the same time, a new and more advanced tax system will remove the current confusing patchwork of rules and greatly simplify the tax process for everyone by using an information processing system that is much more rational, far better designed and vastly more effective than what we have at present. We can manage our economic system in a way that unleashes its full potential.
In addition to a living wage, a smarter approach will allow us to more fully tap into our currently under-utilized human resources and productive capability. The result will be a more efficient and equitable system that is better able to address a host of needs and wants. We will be able to advance faster and more responsibility as a society.
Isn't it time we develop and smarter and more effective approach?
1. Ensure that supply of goods and services keeps pace with the increased demand due to increased wages so that inflation remains in check.
2. Ensure that businesses are protected from the impact of increased payroll.
How do we do this? New technology offers vast potential for information acquisition and analysis. Using this potential we can develop a far more nimble, adaptable and individualized tax process that will address the above 2 points and more. At the same time, a new and more advanced tax system will remove the current confusing patchwork of rules and greatly simplify the tax process for everyone by using an information processing system that is much more rational, far better designed and vastly more effective than what we have at present. We can manage our economic system in a way that unleashes its full potential.
In addition to a living wage, a smarter approach will allow us to more fully tap into our currently under-utilized human resources and productive capability. The result will be a more efficient and equitable system that is better able to address a host of needs and wants. We will be able to advance faster and more responsibility as a society.
Isn't it time we develop and smarter and more effective approach?
Yep, central planning always ends well.
1
Oh noes! This mean businesses will leave LA and go to...uh....where exactly? If the burbs pass that too, I guess people will have to drive to Thousand Oaks to get cheaper goods and services!
I think the gas bill and time spent would come out to more expense than the difference.
I think the gas bill and time spent would come out to more expense than the difference.
6
um,no, it means that cheap labor will eventually be replaced by even cheaper computers. See those self-checkout machines at the grocery store? Those used to be minimum wage workers.
2
This is indeed a great economic experiment conducted at a very large scale. A few years down the road, economists will be able to tell, now with solid empirical evidence, whether raising minimum wage costs jobs, or maybe it does not. And whether the Geni index actually goes higher, indicating a more equal society.
1
This is such a terrible move for low wage workers. With the increase of pay, this will put most of those receiving government assistance like EBT out of range as they will be earning too much. Then when prices double on products like food, because grocers will have to do that to keep up with the raise in wage, the consumer now will have less buying power as their wage will buy them the same amount they could before, but now have no ebt to buy the food they really need. Anyone that thinks this won't hurt small businesses has never ran one. Many small businesses work on a small margin, let's say 5-10%, For example if store A does 250K in business and makes a profit of 20K you then subtract most likely a loan, because most small business owners require one. So 5-8K minus leaving you with say 12-15K. So let's say that same store A has a payroll of 7K a week, that now goes up to 10-11K a week. All profits you once were getting is gone. So why stay in business? just to break even and give all your money away? The last time there was a wage raise, it was supposed to help small businesses, business has been down worse than ever, it did nothing. LA is one of the worst cities in America to have a small business.
12
Everything this person just said is a total lie. What a load of fear mongering garbage. First, labor is not the only expense grocery stores pay, not by a mile, so food prices won't double, and everyone poor will have more money to buy food with. If you believe that we're taxed enough already, then you should welcome the idea of giving taxpayers a break from subsidizing the human needs of those who just don't earn enough for food, clothing, shelter and health care. Now that money can go to something like repairing our roads and bridges, creating jobs and putting money in the economy.
3
In 1973 locally owned grocery store chain paid an entry wage of $8.00 per hour, head cashiers were paid $18.00 per hour. Customers groceries were sacked and taken to the car of the customers. the store were clean, well stocked and busy. Prices were fair, congruent with the wages and the wages of the customers.
3
Yes, but they are determined to make it worse. The floggings of business people will continue until morale improves.
The basic ignorance of the population which pushes such misguided legislature will, once again, backfire on the very people it claims to protect. This is a classic liberal move which mirrors rent control, and price controls. It never worked and it will never work. But once in effect, you can't undo the damage.
12
It never worked? We've had minimum wage laws for decades. People still work. What exactly do you mean by it never works. Please be more specific.
2
I'm pleased that the new minimum wage will take effect gradually. That way, the consequent unemployment resulting from employers who can't pay being forced to close also will be spread out over several years
5
"Forced to close"? When the costs of goods and services used by businesses goes up, they pay. They find a way. They adjust their business plans, they look for areas of waste and most of them continue and do well. Why should the cost of workers, the most important part of most businesses, be any different?
I worked for a television station in Dallas for three years. They were nuts about technology and would pay anything it took to get the latest and the greatest. Not so for employees. They tried to cheap it out and, with a low wage mentality in the old southern states, it generally was successful. Besides, with abundant land, housing costs were far lower (and still are) in the Dallas area. The company got rich and richer, the president of the broadcast group wound up with many millions of dollars (I don't know how many, probably above 100 million), but the employees, they didn't do so well.
I don't really care if some low end businesses are driven out. We don't need quite so many fast food places or other businesses selling cheap goods. We will get by fine without them. Meanwhile, everyone who runs a business needs to make a business plan, start to finish, that involves paying employees something more than bare survival, slave wages.
I worked for a television station in Dallas for three years. They were nuts about technology and would pay anything it took to get the latest and the greatest. Not so for employees. They tried to cheap it out and, with a low wage mentality in the old southern states, it generally was successful. Besides, with abundant land, housing costs were far lower (and still are) in the Dallas area. The company got rich and richer, the president of the broadcast group wound up with many millions of dollars (I don't know how many, probably above 100 million), but the employees, they didn't do so well.
I don't really care if some low end businesses are driven out. We don't need quite so many fast food places or other businesses selling cheap goods. We will get by fine without them. Meanwhile, everyone who runs a business needs to make a business plan, start to finish, that involves paying employees something more than bare survival, slave wages.
3
Nice to say if you don't own or work at a "low end business." If you were a business owner, you would feel differently.
1
I note that, based on the map, this is mostly a blue state phenomenon so far, aside from Louisville and Kansas City. I hope that California, and the rest of the West Coast, will lead the national trend on this issue. Most low-wage workers in the South are still cowed into believing asking for higher pay means they'll lose their jobs, so the minimum wage is stuck at the federal minimum of $7.25, which is worse than pitiful.
4
I own a small business in LA that has 18 workers. We'll be looking to move to Burbank, Glendale, or other city without this wage. Our competitors don't have to meet the $15 an hour wage, either we move or we go bankrupt.
14
You highlight one major problem here: these kind of policies should be, indeed, global.
And to have a truly fair market, they should even span the entire world, what with that globalization. Otherwise you get what we get today: outsourcing.
And to have a truly fair market, they should even span the entire world, what with that globalization. Otherwise you get what we get today: outsourcing.
It will be interesting to see IF the welfare rolls and government subsidies to "poor" people diminish because the min wage was raised as its proponents have claimed.
4
Just the other day, I went in to a So Cal McDonald's near LAX and ordered two Filet-O-Fish that my elderly mother had requested; with California's egregious sales tax added, the total for two measly sandwiches was over EIGHT BUCKS! Mom got ONE sandwich....
When you're laid off and unemployed, your wages are zero regardless of what the law is, and if you ever wanted to know what "Community Organizers" do, you're witnessing it - and have been witnessing it throughout this president's term in office: Rub people's emotions raw to hype their resentments which - among other dynamic - has manifested itself in rabble rousing and discontent amongst those who ALREADY HAVE JOBS!
When you're laid off and unemployed, your wages are zero regardless of what the law is, and if you ever wanted to know what "Community Organizers" do, you're witnessing it - and have been witnessing it throughout this president's term in office: Rub people's emotions raw to hype their resentments which - among other dynamic - has manifested itself in rabble rousing and discontent amongst those who ALREADY HAVE JOBS!
7
This is economic nonsense which will create serious unintended consequences.
4
$20 from $15 is an increase of 26.7%, starting 5 years from now.
I wish I would've just waited it out & collected government welfare instead of going to get higher education. I'd be living about the same as I've been, or possibly better actually. Now I'm down by quite a few "zeros," & I still have to pay that back plus taxes, so it doesn't really account to much anyway after these are paid off.
I wish I would've just waited it out & collected government welfare instead of going to get higher education. I'd be living about the same as I've been, or possibly better actually. Now I'm down by quite a few "zeros," & I still have to pay that back plus taxes, so it doesn't really account to much anyway after these are paid off.
2
sounds like you made a lot of bad decisions if you'd truly be better off on welfare.
1
Have you genuinely looked to see what benefits you would have qualified for if you had done that? I recently worked in a homelessness prevention program which, though publicly funded, was administered by a private non-profit. Periodically we would get clients who had previously enjoyed a middle-class lifestyle before falling upon hard times, usually due to illness. They were usually completely shocked to discover how little help was available to them.
"Fighting" for higher minimum wage is way easier than going to school to get a degree. Funny how they have the time to get together and go to rallies, but no time to learn a skill that can get them a better job.
12
Is it not their right to fight for more? Are you as upset when Jamie Dimon fights for more despite running one of the largest banks in the country into the ground? Somehow I doubt it. People get what they fight for.
I'm 69.During HS/College in the 1960s;I worked minimum wage jobs for $1.25/hr.Then I joined the full time work force and made a whole lot more after college.I also graduated with a degree and zero college debt.Why?Because I worked my behind off to pay tuition,etc.This $15 argument is ridiculous.Anyone with an IQ higher than a rock realizes cost of goods will rise in proportion to minimum wage increase.Also companies will automate and eliminate as many minimum wage jobs as possible.This is just a liberal ploy to gain votes from the uneducated among us.
7
Maybe mcdonalds will avoid higher prices by lowering the franchise fee. Wages are not the only cost of running a mcdonalds.
I'm so sick of hearing this. Take a good look--businesses have already automated--that's why the news keeps reporting that productivity keeps going up. I actually can't wait for all of the so-called job providers to give up and stop trying. In your wake there will be plenty of people starting new businesses that will pay people enough so the taxpayers don't have to anymore.
Somewhat tragic even though we'd all like to see low wage earners get more income. Here, a City Counsel votes to significantly increase the cost on many small privately owned businesses. A sad day when a council can solve their valid concerns by arbitrarily designating (other) citizens who already pay their share of general and property taxes. The $6 hourly increase is a 66% increase on many job providers who were operating under the forces of supply and demand. How in the world did the council get the power to do this? How did a law allowing this get passed?
5
If challenged under the Constitution the rational relationship test applies. That means the challenge fails. Been that way since the late 1940s.
In other words John, that ship sailed. But I understand your concern.
In other words John, that ship sailed. But I understand your concern.
1985, Richardson/Dallas, TX - 15-years old, 1st job, part-time after school, worked in the bakery at Bagelstein's Restaurant & Deli. $3.35/hr + all the unsold bagels I wanted at the end of the night - no baklava or other delicious treats, just bagels. The next summer I started working full-time as a stocker at the 7-11 in the same shopping center at the intersection because a lot of extra-hours were available due to sales.
Granted, at 15, I didn't care about the money but applying myself to whatever job tasked to perform was my goal. The byproduct was learning how to develop a strong work ethic.
Over the last 30-years I've yet to see an employer place a minimum, wage or otherwise, on an employee who has a strong work ethic.
Granted, at 15, I didn't care about the money but applying myself to whatever job tasked to perform was my goal. The byproduct was learning how to develop a strong work ethic.
Over the last 30-years I've yet to see an employer place a minimum, wage or otherwise, on an employee who has a strong work ethic.
6
I've been getting payed minimum wage at the same job I've had for four years (Macy's) where I work while I attended college. I had some of the best sales numbers out of all the employees. Don't tell me these companies will offer better money to the top employees because a lot won't. They're all about making money for the ceo. It's time to start spreading the money out to the employees a bit more. I shouldn't be making the same amount of money as a top salesman as someone flipping burgers.
Our high schools should now have courses in flipping burgers. Raising the minimum wage might cause some lower ranked colleges to close their doors, as their prospective students may now be happy joining a union and flipping burgers.
Haven't seen anyone ask the small businessman what they can afford to pay. You are all concerned with what Mickey D's can pay. They just have to raise the price of their Big Mac to cover it. The guy who owns the small grocery store, the corner drug store, the neighborhood hardware store may not be in a position to pay that. Guess we will see more CVS stores as the small pharmacy is forced out and more Home Depots as the small hardware store disappears.
The times they are a changing!
Haven't seen anyone ask the small businessman what they can afford to pay. You are all concerned with what Mickey D's can pay. They just have to raise the price of their Big Mac to cover it. The guy who owns the small grocery store, the corner drug store, the neighborhood hardware store may not be in a position to pay that. Guess we will see more CVS stores as the small pharmacy is forced out and more Home Depots as the small hardware store disappears.
The times they are a changing!
5
I would bet that many of the cities around LA will NOT follow LA's lead, preferring instead to capture their relocating businesses.
Nobody points out that when you raise the minimum wage, you also raise the employer's share of employment taxes and worker's comp insurance costs. The business sees a much higher cost of labor than just the $15 minimum wage hike.
Come to LA in a few years and enter your restaurant orders on an iPad. It will be the future. We'll automate more low skill jobs and do away with them. Then, what will low skill illegal immigrant workers do?
Nobody points out that when you raise the minimum wage, you also raise the employer's share of employment taxes and worker's comp insurance costs. The business sees a much higher cost of labor than just the $15 minimum wage hike.
Come to LA in a few years and enter your restaurant orders on an iPad. It will be the future. We'll automate more low skill jobs and do away with them. Then, what will low skill illegal immigrant workers do?
4
Sorry but this is nuts and will backfire in the long run. I have no problem in increasing it to $10 or so from where it was federally at $7.50- but these are MINIMUM WAGE jobs for a reason. In total there are 3.6 million workers in the US that earn $7.25 or less - (federal minimum wage). Flipping burgers for $32K a year- god help us all.- FACT look it up on the DOL website.
Never meant to support a family - these are entry level jobs in order to climb the ladder- after all Obamas policies are a huge success and unemployment is at an all time low as they tell us- so why the need to increase it? Because these jobs are the new middle class and people do not realize it.
Never meant to support a family - these are entry level jobs in order to climb the ladder- after all Obamas policies are a huge success and unemployment is at an all time low as they tell us- so why the need to increase it? Because these jobs are the new middle class and people do not realize it.
3
So how much should the maintenance man at my sons school earn, the guy does everything computer skills, plumbing, electrical, landscaping , masonry. concrete, welding. ….he's making $13.50 an hour now, should he get a raise to $25-$30 to keep it fair? Should he go to McDonalds and make $15 and let someone else work their rear end off at the school who doesn't know what they're doing for $15? This is ridiculous!
9
what is ridiculous is paying someone with that level of skill $13.50 per hour
1
The maintenance man should be earning more than he is, well more.
2
Quit having your business and family be held back by the 3rd world government on the Coasts.
You deserve live a happy life and be successful on YOUR terms. You deserve a city with an outstanding business climate that allows you to be free and make more money along with enjoying greater success.
Come move to Indianapolis and enjoy Unmatched affordability, a 60% lower cost of living, 50% lower taxes, Fiscally Responsible Government, No Illegals, Better Schools, Less Traffic and Pollution, No Red Light or Speed Camera's, Less Crime, No major earthquakes, Lower Insurance and Gas prices (Gas in Indy is 2.60 a gallon compared to 4$ in CA), A higher standard of living, 21% of the worlds freshwater to tap into, Friendlier people and more happiness for your family
The American Dream is waiting for you in Indy :)
You deserve live a happy life and be successful on YOUR terms. You deserve a city with an outstanding business climate that allows you to be free and make more money along with enjoying greater success.
Come move to Indianapolis and enjoy Unmatched affordability, a 60% lower cost of living, 50% lower taxes, Fiscally Responsible Government, No Illegals, Better Schools, Less Traffic and Pollution, No Red Light or Speed Camera's, Less Crime, No major earthquakes, Lower Insurance and Gas prices (Gas in Indy is 2.60 a gallon compared to 4$ in CA), A higher standard of living, 21% of the worlds freshwater to tap into, Friendlier people and more happiness for your family
The American Dream is waiting for you in Indy :)
8
Lived there for two terrible years. Provincial doesn't even start to describe the dreary place.
3
...and homosexuals are now discouraged, by the very Government that's referred to as "Fiscally responsible." Sounds more like a "socially reprehensible government," to me.
By the way, I lived in Indiana, in the "burbs" near Indianapolis. It's not the garden spot it once was.
By the way, I lived in Indiana, in the "burbs" near Indianapolis. It's not the garden spot it once was.
Yeah, and when 30 million people settle in, you'll wish you never invited them.
This is federalism in action. Los Angeles is vast. if the $15 per hour experiment works there, meaning that economic activity is not depressed, that kids are still getting hired (as much as they are) for summer jobs, and the looking-for-work rate does not go up, then it's an experiment that can be adopted elsewhere with confidence. If it fails, it will fail very publicly. Kudos to the City Council for taking a chance on behalf of a curious nation.
3
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. could not have said it better.
Problem is, if the law does lead to greater economic loss, the voters of LA won't vote the Democrats out of office. The alternative is repulsive to them.
Problem is, if the law does lead to greater economic loss, the voters of LA won't vote the Democrats out of office. The alternative is repulsive to them.
1
That's really aweful logic, on so many levels. Didn't Seattle raise the minimum wage? Can't we give that time to pan out before betting the fate of one of the largest cities on the world?
Here they come,
Wheeling down the aisle,
They'll get strangest looks, from
People for a while,
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
People think they'll never work out,
But minimum wage is too high,
To put off installing em now.
They do whatever you do,
Do it better than you,
Because they never get restless
Because there’s nothing new,
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
And people think they'll never work out,
But profits are the reason for business,
So it’s time to flip the burgers round.
They’re just washing the floors,
Come and watch them brew coffee,
They’re the next generation,
Of Fast Food Emploooyyyeess!!!
Any repetitious job, that requires minimum skill
Just look over your shoulder,
Guess who’ll be serving you?
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
And people think they'll never work out,
But you need healthcare and time off,
While they’re working round the clock!
Wheeling down the aisle,
They'll get strangest looks, from
People for a while,
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
People think they'll never work out,
But minimum wage is too high,
To put off installing em now.
They do whatever you do,
Do it better than you,
Because they never get restless
Because there’s nothing new,
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
And people think they'll never work out,
But profits are the reason for business,
So it’s time to flip the burgers round.
They’re just washing the floors,
Come and watch them brew coffee,
They’re the next generation,
Of Fast Food Emploooyyyeess!!!
Any repetitious job, that requires minimum skill
Just look over your shoulder,
Guess who’ll be serving you?
Hey, Hey, They're the Robots,
And people think they'll never work out,
But you need healthcare and time off,
While they’re working round the clock!
7
Get ready to watch the regional CPI to go through the roof. Wage-push inflation will become a reality until technology moves in to replace the menial jobs that these individuals are treating like a career. Invest in machine-vision and automation control systems. It doesn't take an industrial engineer to flip burgers but I bet he could build a machine that could do it more efficiently without training or turnover costs and no ongoing payroll taxes. If you really want to help these people achieve their goal, give them a shovel. It'll allow them to dig their graves a little faster.
4
It's quite amazing to read the thoughts of people who have no problem with executives making $10,000 a hour every hour of the day, every day of the year, but whinge about some poor soul tying to support himself and his family on minimum wage.
97
What's more amazing is that some people think that you can't be against this action AND against CEO pay.
2
Only a very tiny number of CEOs make anywhere near those figures. And their compensation is set voluntarily by others who are motivated to recruit the very best executives in the world.
The concept of a minimum wage is the opposite of a voluntary transaction. It's about people demanding what they have not earned. The term "greed" is misused, but by popular definition, these are the greedy ones. Short-term greedy at least.
It's also about people foolishly setting a trap for themselves. Sure it will cost jobs and increase the cost of living for the poorest, that's obvious. But it will also result in many people making a career out of jobs that by their nature are meant for young inexperienced workers.
If you're not making enough money flipping burgers, find a way to get a better job. A good ife and success are hard for all but a few lucky people to attain. The rest of us have learned self-discipline, hard work, and making wise decisions is how to get ahead. You don't deserve an easy life, you must earn it.
The concept of a minimum wage is the opposite of a voluntary transaction. It's about people demanding what they have not earned. The term "greed" is misused, but by popular definition, these are the greedy ones. Short-term greedy at least.
It's also about people foolishly setting a trap for themselves. Sure it will cost jobs and increase the cost of living for the poorest, that's obvious. But it will also result in many people making a career out of jobs that by their nature are meant for young inexperienced workers.
If you're not making enough money flipping burgers, find a way to get a better job. A good ife and success are hard for all but a few lucky people to attain. The rest of us have learned self-discipline, hard work, and making wise decisions is how to get ahead. You don't deserve an easy life, you must earn it.
Anyone making $10,00 an hour found someone who thinks they are worth more than $10,000 an hour. Anyone who was making $9 and only provided $12 of value to the company will be unemployed at a $15 minimum wage.
1
This is not the kind of thing for legislators to do on their own. Its equivalent of a tax increase on businesses. I suspect that low paying jobs will leave the state as well as the people currently holding these jobs, often young and people of immigrant background. Most likely the will go to Texas and Nevada, where the tax burden is light
1
I wonder what this will do for housing costs in already expensive L.A. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. I didn't make more than $15 an hour until after I finished school. Which really wasn't so bad as the cost of living here back than was pretty cheap, ($650 a month of 900 sq feet, plus storage, parking in a garage, and a pool in a condo building within 10 minute walk from the heart of the city in a historic area), but I certainly couldn't have afforded to buy a nice home in the area making what I did back then. I'd be surprised if the biggest beneficiaries of this over a 5 year span are not the landlords.
2
Yet another reason to reinstitute Democratic control in 2016. The GOP will rabidly oppose even $10.10, slave wages in many parts of the U.S.
6
Great for folks who have jobs. Not so much for entry level people who don't. Minimum wage will decrease the number of jobs offered by employers and encourage more job seekers. This will lead to a large mismatch in supply and demand.
Price floors sound great but they have consequences -- unintended for those who don't understand microeconomics.
Price floors sound great but they have consequences -- unintended for those who don't understand microeconomics.
3
Here's the thing: we are already paying for these people to survive through food stamps. Why not ask their billionaire corporate employers to chip in a bit more?
I think $15/hr is a bit steep, but we'll see what happens. My preference would be to tie minimum wage to the size of the company. If you have under 5 employees, you can pay $11/hr. If you have over 100, that's when the $15/hr rate kicks in. This would help small business get going but not allow them to expand endlessly without kicking some of the proft back into the economy.
I think $15/hr is a bit steep, but we'll see what happens. My preference would be to tie minimum wage to the size of the company. If you have under 5 employees, you can pay $11/hr. If you have over 100, that's when the $15/hr rate kicks in. This would help small business get going but not allow them to expand endlessly without kicking some of the proft back into the economy.
5
Deserves consideration, for the very small business.
I would like to know more specifics, because 2020 is 5 years away. Since minimum wage is currently at 9 per hour, in LA, will it go up gradually to 15? If so, in what increments?
Hold on, is this saying that states and municipalities can pass minimum wage laws tailored to local economic circumstances?!
Now I thought that the only solution to the whole issue of low wages for entry level low skill labor was implementing a national wage floor for every worker from San Francisco to Slidell. How mistaken I was.
Now I thought that the only solution to the whole issue of low wages for entry level low skill labor was implementing a national wage floor for every worker from San Francisco to Slidell. How mistaken I was.
It seems to me that the increasing of the minimum wage to $15 per hour could have a "ripple' effect. If someone is earning $25 per hour, based on job duties, education and skill level, and a person who was in the same organization who is making $10 per hour based on job duties, education and skill level and the $10 person gets a 50% increase in salary what does that do to the $25 per hour person? It makes him her feel stupid. I also think there are many union contracts around the country that have clauses that would increase their wages by the same percent that the minimum wage is increased to keep parity. This is going to be messy and I think it is not being reported properly.
1
The inflation caused by this will merely make it meaningless. It will essentially raise prices to where the higher wage will be erased. The people who will really suffer will be those on fixed incomes which will lag behind, and those paying for their retirement through the expenditure of their savings which will be greatly devalued. The lack of understanding of economics by our political elite is truly frightening.
2
While I understand the purpose, all prices across the board will go up! Which means that a wage of $15 per hour will be equivalent to $9 per hour now, within a year of the new wage taking effect, price of apartments will go up, the price of cars will go up but most definitely the price of food and eating out will skyrocket. Enjoy your victory but remember it does have a cost! Especially since senior will not see that type of increase in their income and will be hit extremely hard as the prices go up.
4
Why? Are apartments provided lots of services by minimum wage workers?
Nope.
Nope.
First, sadly, it is for 5 years from now, not as the title seem to imply. Second, what an incredible set of negative comments, like "what is a flip burger doing to deserve its salary", or "I went to college and I make 15 dollars an hour", etc. A person that works at MacDonalds needs to live also, we all need to live and pay rent, and we will always needs people to do those jobs, or what do you want, slaves? Almost all salaries should go in a similar proportion. I had bad jobs that paid 3 times the minimum salary in the 90's and today those bad jobs still pay 3 times the minimum, because the industry wants certain type of people to do them. A decent society strives to have all jobs paying a living salary. And we are in a "Christian Country"....
11
It sounds like such a nice thing to do but there is no economic analysis of the consequences. The CBO (nonpartisan) estimated that a nationwide increase to $10.00 would result in a loss of half a million jobs. They didn't even look at the consequences of raising it to $15, as the job losses would be unacceptable. There will be many small businesses closing in all of these cities, they cannot possibly pay all their workers those wages and stay in business. Most small employers are not rich, their businesses run on razor thin margins, and they can't raise prices and remain competitive. This will have a very negative effect on overall job growth in these cities, and will result in diminution in the character of shopping districts with nothing but big chains and big box stores. It will be apparent in a short time that it was a huge mistake. Look for lots of going out of business sales though!
4
Given that Los Angeles is utterly riddled with fast food joints--take a drive down any major street in the San Fernando Valley for proof--I think more businesses will absorb the increased minimum wage than those that give up on the market and close. Every store that closes is an opportunity for a nearby competitor to make an extra buck.
16
“Every store that close is an opportunity for a nearby competitor to make an extra buck.”?!
Tell that to all the unemployed workers whose jobs have gone to China or India.
Tell that to all the unemployed workers whose jobs have gone to China or India.
Its all well and good but after taxes/FICA/S.S. what will it leave a worker?
Not too much. As it is today, $15 does not buy too much. By the year 2020 it'll be even less.
One needs to earn at LEAST $25 to lead a reasonable, rent/bills are paid life TODAY in 2015.
Anyone who argues against $15/hr. is making, no doubt, way more and has no idea what it costs to survive today. Where one illness/injury or car repair can set you back into the poorhouse. Most workers today are getting 'nickeled and dimed' and barely squeaking by with no safety net.
Not too much. As it is today, $15 does not buy too much. By the year 2020 it'll be even less.
One needs to earn at LEAST $25 to lead a reasonable, rent/bills are paid life TODAY in 2015.
Anyone who argues against $15/hr. is making, no doubt, way more and has no idea what it costs to survive today. Where one illness/injury or car repair can set you back into the poorhouse. Most workers today are getting 'nickeled and dimed' and barely squeaking by with no safety net.
16
that's why one does not plan to stay at a minimum wage job forever
1
Well, full time at $15 per hour is $31,200 per year. For a couple of unskilled workers that leads to a household income of $62K per year. As you say, not great, but not bad for the least skilled workers in the country. It should go a long way to ensuring minimal living standards.
1
Yes. $25 is a wage necessary for a good life. That's why you go to school and learn an advanced skill that brings value to others - like radiology, mechanics, bookkeeping, or something that brings more value than a sandwich in your tummy. Making burgers 8 hours a day is difficult work. Standing on your feet 8 hours a day is difficult work. But it just not worth the $15 or the $25 per hour. Fighting for higher minimum wage is much easier than going to school and learning a skill beyond what everyone else can do in their own kitchen.
1
Well in Sydney, Australia an ice cream cone is $10 as the minimum wage is $20 an hour so you guessed it; no one but tourists will purchase them. I rest my case.
16
You lie. I paid about 4 bucks. I was just in Sydney...Austrialia's problem is a ludicrously high property market....worse by far than Los Angeles.
3
living in Sydney I'll say you're quoting an extreme I've not seen - most cones of expensive gelato are like $4 - fancy liquid nitrogen (made in front of you from liquid in 10 seconds) icecream was $6 last time I looked - and plenty of cheap Japanese or other Asian restaurants apparently pay their workers $6 an hour cash in hand.
Same as anywhere - if you buy in the tourist spots you're asking to be ripped off. Local know and buy from the much cheaper places - my favourite Japanese soba lunch costs me $3.90
Same as anywhere - if you buy in the tourist spots you're asking to be ripped off. Local know and buy from the much cheaper places - my favourite Japanese soba lunch costs me $3.90
4
The minimum wage in Australia for workers older than 20 is $16.87 Australian dollars, not $20. This is about $13.36 U.S. dollars. You have overstated it by nearly 20%.
1
When output of work is not important and employers become responsible for the needs of workers not their productivity, look for businesses to not only flee but many will end up in bankruptcy. This will provide those who automate a leg up. Research in automation will increase immediately.Many businesses will cut any labor intensive part of their businesses. Anything that can be done elsewhere will be. People will move to LA to find the higher paying positions, but in the end many will lose their jobs. This will be an interesting experiment.
9
Automation will take your job and mine, as soon as it is possible. Whether or not you bow to the corporations and live on brand and water only, or kiss their feet will not change that.
1
I believe you are spot on but emotions carry the day not reality.
Instead of teaching under- skilled workers a higher skill that pays more money, they just demand more money. The $15.00 per hour wage now "permanently" keeps people in these low skilled jobs. They will now stay there forever rather than better themselves by learning a higher skill level for higher pay. One of the major reasons for wealth differences in America is because of the many who refuse to educate themselves... just demand more money.
16
"One of the major reasons for wealth differences in America is because of the many who refuse to educate themselves... just demand more money.'
or let their union demand it for them.
or let their union demand it for them.
To Pete from NJ:
You do not understand that are many many persons who cannot do anything more complicated than work at fast food places and other similar low skill jobs.
You may have the illusion that people can become as intelligent and capable as they want if they work hard. That is false. The distribution of intelligence and other capabilities in humans is in the form of a bell shaped curve, and while most of the population seem to have similar capacities, the extremes posses much higher and much lower capacities. The less intelligent human is less intelligent than the smartest chimpanzee.
Just, as you probably cannot make a contribution to science similar to Newton or Einstein, 10% to 20% of the population capable of work (not even counting those with moderate to profound mental retardation, or with severe psychiatric disorders) cannot do work more complicated than fast food or similar. Can't you understand this?
You do not understand that are many many persons who cannot do anything more complicated than work at fast food places and other similar low skill jobs.
You may have the illusion that people can become as intelligent and capable as they want if they work hard. That is false. The distribution of intelligence and other capabilities in humans is in the form of a bell shaped curve, and while most of the population seem to have similar capacities, the extremes posses much higher and much lower capacities. The less intelligent human is less intelligent than the smartest chimpanzee.
Just, as you probably cannot make a contribution to science similar to Newton or Einstein, 10% to 20% of the population capable of work (not even counting those with moderate to profound mental retardation, or with severe psychiatric disorders) cannot do work more complicated than fast food or similar. Can't you understand this?
2
It would be nice - higher education - higher pay. Does it really works that way? Sometimes...
It is downright INFURIATING when the time component of these minimum wage increases is properly considered. Raising the wage to $15 by 2020 does not really do that much, because in 2020 we will have had another 5 years of inflation and the cost of money will have gone down. That means wages will still be too low to support cost of living and the wage increase is starkly diluted by the long time period. At five years out, the wage needs to be ~$20 to be a real improvement, otherwise, we are just playing catch up and remain behind the curve in terms of poverty and living wages. Those opposed to a minimum wage hike should be very pleased at this slight of hand.
100
Instead of sitting around for 5 years waiting for minimum wage to rise why not spend the time improving yourself so you can get a BETTER JOB?
Absolutely right, AgentG...They should make this effective immediately
1
Why not make it $50? The jobs won't exist in any case as employers will either have to move or go out of business.
A person who works a full-time job should not live in utter poverty, which in large cities such as LA and NYC, is exactly where a present minimum wage job puts you. If a business can't survive without it's employees living in poverty, then they should be out of business. This is not how a society should operate.
229
That's well and good, but what would you do with people who don't *have* full-time jobs? Raising the minimum wage could easily eliminate low wage jobs altogether, or change them from full-time to part-time.
If some businesses that pay low wages close down, as you seem to agree is likely, where do you expect the laid off employees to work? If you achieve your stated goal that no one should live in poverty who works full time, simply by reducing the number of people who work full time, consider me unimpressed.
If some businesses that pay low wages close down, as you seem to agree is likely, where do you expect the laid off employees to work? If you achieve your stated goal that no one should live in poverty who works full time, simply by reducing the number of people who work full time, consider me unimpressed.
This has been my mantra on other boards...and it has been nearly universally excoriated.
That's exactly what is going to happen: Businesses that feel they cannot afford the enforced minimum wage will have to down-size or go out of business... and then the people that fought for minimum wage will be the same people complaining that they are now unemployed.
Good news! It will put more money in the pockets of consumers and will boost the local economy. There are a huge number of low wage workers in Los Angeles who will now be able to buy more things, so it will benefit everyone.
8
Bad news! It will take more money out of the pockets of low-income people who will not be able to buy more things. Including fast food. So it will benefit nobody.
really?!! the low wage workers can buy more stuff?!! Are you sure?! what happens to the people who won't get hired because companies will cut back on staff to afford higher wages!!! I guess it will be BAD news for those people!!
But Wait!
I have an idea!!!! Brilliant idea!!
Let's close the gap of income inequality!!
Let's have the people who will make $15 an hour to donate money to the people who will lose their jobs because of that wage increase!!! NOW..that WILL work! that way EVERYONE will be shopping at the 99 cents store!
But Wait!
I have an idea!!!! Brilliant idea!!
Let's close the gap of income inequality!!
Let's have the people who will make $15 an hour to donate money to the people who will lose their jobs because of that wage increase!!! NOW..that WILL work! that way EVERYONE will be shopping at the 99 cents store!
yeah, more expensive things...
While I'd like to see the $15-an-hour wage phased in more quickly in Los Angeles, this is great news. I often wonder why some people who earn a good living, including local elected officials, members of the business community, and members of Congress, want to deprive others of the opportunity to earn enough money to live on. I find this hypocritical and immoral. (I feel similarly about people who are married opposing the right of others to marry, but that's another discussion.) I challenge anyone who opposes a $15-an-hour minimum wage to try living on, and doing the kind of work that pays, $7.25 or slightly more per hour. They'll quickly discover that it can't be done without relying on taxpayer funded welfare programs. It's time for all Americans to have compassion rather than contempt for hard-working people who are poorly paid, and it's time for Congress to stop subsidizing employers that underpay workers and to make the Federal minimum wage one that people can live on.
38
newsflash Dan!
Minimum wage is not a wage to live on...it was never meant to be....
Minimum wage is not a wage to live on...it was never meant to be....
1
It's time to stop pretending that one should expect to drop out of high school, take a fast food job and then have a lot of kids and a decent life on that wage.
2
"want to deprive others of the opportunity to earn enough money to live on" It is unfortunate but many "haves" like the idea of classes... So they can look down on less fortunate people and feel better about themselves. They couldn't consider themselves exceptional if anybody could easily enter their little club, huh?
I agree with you; this is all very sickening.
I agree with you; this is all very sickening.
The "Consumer Price Index" should not be use as an indicator of "Cost of Living". But it will help to illustrate the point that has already been made. Raising minimum wage is too little too late.
I just came from this site:
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
It is the online "CPI Inflation Calculator." 2020 is 5 years away.
So 5 years ago in 2000 $10.00 had the same buying power as $13.63 in 2015. In 5 years there was $3.63 loss in buying power. Again this does give the complete picture of changes in the true total cost of living. To be realistic and fair to everyone increases in minimum wage must be ongoing. If we look at the facts, use reason, with compassion & empathy it's easy to see minimum wage should be raised accordingly with the rise in the total cost of living. It must be done to help move the wealth beyond the 1%; and to invigorate our economy. The rich have horded their wealth, and they are using it to control our government. They are writing the laws and regulations made by it. Wake up. Take action (nonviolent please).
I just came from this site:
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
It is the online "CPI Inflation Calculator." 2020 is 5 years away.
So 5 years ago in 2000 $10.00 had the same buying power as $13.63 in 2015. In 5 years there was $3.63 loss in buying power. Again this does give the complete picture of changes in the true total cost of living. To be realistic and fair to everyone increases in minimum wage must be ongoing. If we look at the facts, use reason, with compassion & empathy it's easy to see minimum wage should be raised accordingly with the rise in the total cost of living. It must be done to help move the wealth beyond the 1%; and to invigorate our economy. The rich have horded their wealth, and they are using it to control our government. They are writing the laws and regulations made by it. Wake up. Take action (nonviolent please).
2
Oops. I made 2 mistakes in my post:
(1 ) Again this (Consumer Price Index) does [not] give the complete picture [it does not give the full amount] of changes in the true total cost of living.
(2) Five years ago was 2010. The CPI Inflation Calculator shows $10.00 in 2010 has the same buying power as $10.76 in 2015.
It still shows the need to continually raise the minimum wage.
Raising the minimum wage will benefit all of us. It will lead to more people with more money to spend. Of course the things purchased by minimum wage earners will be less expensive than a thirty-something million dollar painting.
(1 ) Again this (Consumer Price Index) does [not] give the complete picture [it does not give the full amount] of changes in the true total cost of living.
(2) Five years ago was 2010. The CPI Inflation Calculator shows $10.00 in 2010 has the same buying power as $10.76 in 2015.
It still shows the need to continually raise the minimum wage.
Raising the minimum wage will benefit all of us. It will lead to more people with more money to spend. Of course the things purchased by minimum wage earners will be less expensive than a thirty-something million dollar painting.
So many posters actually think that keeping working people in poverty is somehow beneficial to our economy, to our society.
45
No. We just don't think government should tell people and companies what wages to pay and prices to charge.
3
Nice try, but you miss the point. If a person's wages are increase form, say $9.00 an hour to $15.00, where is the money to pay the $6.00 increase coming from? How many business can stay in business with a 66.7% increase in labor costs, not including the increase in FICA?
Raising the minimum wage to $15.00 forces the employer to make decisions to cover this increase. Either reduce employees and/or increase the prices charged for services or products.
Raising the minimum wage to $15.00 forces the employer to make decisions to cover this increase. Either reduce employees and/or increase the prices charged for services or products.
2
Raising the minimum wage is a great start, but the arguments for how it will maintain a highly stratified status quo are compelling also. I work for an employee owned corporation that I, and many colleagues, consider quite good to their employees. They invest in our training.
I was recently at a week's paid training that roughly cost the company a month's pay for each person. It creates something far more generative than an increase in salary ultimately will provide. If they don't exist, tax incentives for training expenditures could be a great thing.
I was recently at a week's paid training that roughly cost the company a month's pay for each person. It creates something far more generative than an increase in salary ultimately will provide. If they don't exist, tax incentives for training expenditures could be a great thing.
5
Ok so what does that do then to the lower managers, supervisors, upper retail sales etc.etc. Won't they then want a raise as well ? or should they now be required to labor as "min wage" workers?
3
If I am making say $15 an hour by 2020 as an "experienced worker" and then they hire this unskilled uneducated person (most likely an illegal too btw) I am going to straight to my boss and ask for more money! you bet! then a loaf of bread is going to be $15 and not $5 any more! yep....sigh....Employers will the pass the cost to us ...we will buy less and the economy will get worse!
1
The same affluent liberals supporting this policy wouldn't be caught dead eating at McDonalds and supporting such businesses that employ their minimum wage brethren.
7
Let's be serious about this. No one can support a family on $15/hr; the minimum should be at least $22.50/hr. If an employer is not willing to pay at least $22.50/hr., then (s)he shouldn't hire anyone.
9
Donald, IMO, minimum wage jobs are not for people that have to support a family. They are entry level jobs, for students and people just entering the work force. they are not career jobs.
1
'If an employer is not willing to pay at least $22.50/hr., then (s)he shouldn't hire anyone."
They will just purchase or lease machines to do these low skill jobs.
They will just purchase or lease machines to do these low skill jobs.
1
Employers may decide just that.
Here's another way to state your point: anyone making $15 an hour can't afford to have a family.
Here's another way to state your point: anyone making $15 an hour can't afford to have a family.
1
Five dollar an hour industries sounds nasty, but they will provide lots of jobs. I would like to open a factory full of sewing machine operators if the wages were five bucks an hour with no extras.
1
They already thought of it Privatly Owned Prisons make the inmates work for 25 cents an hour 8 hours a day or go to the "Time Out" room...some of the investors are Microsoft and Nordstroms. It's gotta be true I read it in an old article from this newspaper.
And can anyone clear this up? I've been told meat isn't even an ingredient in a McDonald's Hamburger?
And can anyone clear this up? I've been told meat isn't even an ingredient in a McDonald's Hamburger?
Ok. $5x8=$40x22(alike)=$880.- Will You also build affordable appropriate housing, let's say - 1 bdr. appartment for $450.- per mo.?
So counter jobs at McDonalds will now be long term career opportunities? This is what the politically correct Democrat social manipulators have wrought.
14
They already are.
Wrong Paul. The new reality is brought to you by the movement of good paying manufacturing jobs (and others) by companies that exploit the poverty of third world countries. Greed, greed, greed, and I am not talking about small, local businesses
Always good to know the departure point. I couldn't find a mention of LA's current minimum wage in this article (perhaps I missed it?) -- googled it and found that it seems to be $9/hour. So this is a large increase for employers to swallow at once.
3
It happens over a period of 5 years. The article says, "by 2020."
6.00 over 5 years is hardly all at once...
1
Sounds like prices for everyone will increase, fewer part time jobs will be their for the the youth and a continued effort toward more automation resulting in the elimination of jobs, a good reason to send jobs over sea. It sounds like the rich will get richer and the poorer will get poorer. Low paying jobs have never been been seen as something that a person would make a career of. These jobs are usually for the youth or for part-time work and that's all. Not a career!!
14
Too bad those part time low wage jobs are now the majority of all jobs in the USA. As you know, living wage jobs are few and far between.
2
It becomes a career when you have 0 access to education or healthcare because of their prohibitive costs. You can't castigate people for "failing" when the system doesn't even give them a fair chance.
OMG, I am sure that was the same argument when FDR first established a minimum wage.
You probably think that it is liberals pushing the minimum wage up and conservatives are generally opposed. Wrong, The increase in the minimum wage is great, assuming people still keep the jobs and actually work the same number of hours therefore actually do increase their household gross income. These are all risky assumptions. But assuming that actually happens the next thing that happens is the entitlement roles go down. Sorry, you make too much to get medicaid now, also food stamps. Your subsidized housing scale says you need to pay more rent. This is all good news that you are getting independent of government handouts. However, artificial increases in wages do not translate to increased standard of living. Whether it is the 7.62% that you pay as a tax for medicare and social security or your state (CA gets a big piece) and federal income taxes, everybody is going to get a piece of the action. Cost of groceries are going up since the stores have to pay more wages. The other factor that affects this is the slow increase to the max over a several years. Those little increases disappear over time. I know that is an awful lot of pessimism but I have a point to make. If you are in a low wage job that will benefit by this artificial increase-Artificial means it is not based on market/competitive forces- you will not be better off until you figure out how to make yourself more valuable as an employee, or better yet become an entrepreneur, and earn more by being worth more.
11
75 percent of your entrepreneurs fail in their start ups, but pay not a dime of their wage money. THIS is the corporate welfare game...you only need how to play it. It requires no skill or money, only the ability to look and sound good.
This might save the middle class, our economy and possibly our country if business owners and corporations see the need for parity or a decent way of life for those who've made them rich. The French elite and many others with frilly collars were dragged through muddy streets despite their disbelief. Apparently they failed to notice the price of cake and revolution.
19
Except that now they control the media and make liberal use of it to brainwash the good ol' people of America (and Europeans too, to some extent)... Costs of education in the US are so prohibitive that less and less people can afford it, which in turn means that more and more people are likely to be susceptible to corporate propaganda...
An hourly wage of $15 is only about $31,200 a year. That's hardly enough to live anywhere in the city of Los Angeles. Also no doubt some businesses will lay off some workers. But others might invest more in their workers to reap higher returns. As an analogy, when water was cheap, people leave the faucet on while brushing teeth and let the sprinklers run during rains. Now that water is scarce, we actually use it more wisely.
11
Conclusion: Either get a better job or move out of Los Angeles.
Or both
Or both
6
You don't invest more in your water when it gets more expensive. You just use less of it, so your analogy would suggest layoffs.
As to "investment," that makes sense for industries where there really is return on investment in labor. But as someone who has managed retail workers, I can tell you that investing in them isn't really meaningful. Some people are naturally fast with a register; others (like me) are not. People do get faster with time, but the slow ones stay slow and the fast ones stay fast. A higher wage might make me more inclined to fire slow clerks and replace them with faster ones. It might also make me rethink the checkout process to make one clerk able to work faster. But it wouldn't make me "invest" in any worker in any way that would benefit the worker.
As to "investment," that makes sense for industries where there really is return on investment in labor. But as someone who has managed retail workers, I can tell you that investing in them isn't really meaningful. Some people are naturally fast with a register; others (like me) are not. People do get faster with time, but the slow ones stay slow and the fast ones stay fast. A higher wage might make me more inclined to fire slow clerks and replace them with faster ones. It might also make me rethink the checkout process to make one clerk able to work faster. But it wouldn't make me "invest" in any worker in any way that would benefit the worker.
1
No restaurants for you...except those on Melrose that charge 35 dollars for a burger.
1
If I were Californian, I would buy as many rental properties as I can right now. What this minimum wage increase means is that rent will go way up in California, absorbing any purchasing power gains from the wage increase. This is what politicians don't get. The market adapts, just like it adapted when women went into the workforce and people had two incomes (home prices skyrocketed).
17
Dear, Jonathan! If You "would buy as many rental properties as You can'', you would not need any wage increase, for sure. So, it is nuisance to talk that way about people who needs. And the rent in California already is way up, that's why many young people, with possibly higher education than you, are cramped by 3 or 4 in one apartment... The prices are going up anyway, because more and more money is printed...
Then such artificial rent increases need to be regulated, because they would be the result of collusion between landlords.
Sound capitalism dictates that prices should only be driven up because of an increase in demand, not because of an increase in purchasing power.
Fortunately, where the free market fails, regulation succeeds, huh? (such heretic thought of mine shouldn't be spoken in the US, haha)
Sound capitalism dictates that prices should only be driven up because of an increase in demand, not because of an increase in purchasing power.
Fortunately, where the free market fails, regulation succeeds, huh? (such heretic thought of mine shouldn't be spoken in the US, haha)
The increase of $15.00 per hour will raise the price of a big Mac significantly, which is a good thing, perhaps mothers will now replace the Big Mac with something nourishing. Which may be the demise of Mac Donald, & the end of Children obesity, The down side is that the workers at Mac Donald will become unemployed, & never enjoy the raise.However, there's always welfare, & Obama Care
7
No it won't, many McDonald's employees in NYC make $15 per hour and the sandwiches cost the same as they do in flyover country.
I'm not a liberal guy in any way but let's get real, the adjusted 1968 minimum wage based on the price of a 1 bedroom apartment and an economical American made care would be $23 per hour in 2015 dollars.
I don't even know how young people stay alive today on that kind of money.
I'm not a liberal guy in any way but let's get real, the adjusted 1968 minimum wage based on the price of a 1 bedroom apartment and an economical American made care would be $23 per hour in 2015 dollars.
I don't even know how young people stay alive today on that kind of money.
1
Wow. Your analysis is wrong and your fall back position just sad.
A Big Mac is probably price inelastic. If it's not, the substitutes wouldn't be healthier food because healthier food generally costs more. It would be equally fattening food plenty of which is sold at McDonalds.
It won't be going out of business anytime soon.
A Big Mac is probably price inelastic. If it's not, the substitutes wouldn't be healthier food because healthier food generally costs more. It would be equally fattening food plenty of which is sold at McDonalds.
It won't be going out of business anytime soon.
2
Do cities and towns actually have the legal authority to require independent businesses to raise their wages above the federally/state set minimum? Such a precedent could lead to thousands of different minimum wages as one goes from city to coty and town to town.
5
Yes they do, municipalities generally have the same plenary powers as state governments. The Supreme Court decided in West Coast Hotel v. Parrish in 1937 that minimum wages were okay, which actually marked a major shift over the previous decades of Constitutional interpretation.
In liberal states the minimum wage is irrelevant. It will just begin a state and federal lowering of subsidies for the poor. It will also create more joblessness. Can't see how this will help.
Subsidized job training so people can make more money is a much much much better option.
Subsidized job training so people can make more money is a much much much better option.
4
But the people working those minimum wage jobs will still need to be subsidized by the taxpayer. You are also ignoring the fact that there are very few living wage jobs in the USA -- and after TPP, there will be even fewer ways a working person can make a living in the USA.
Make more money where? There are hundreds of thousands of people working for major fast food companies and retailers and it's not realistic to think most of these people will take advantage of any subsidized job training. Somebody has to work at the McDonald's and Walmarts of the world. A few of them will get job training/schooling for other better paying jobs. For the rest of them, give them a pay raise!
Next they will want to lower the cost of education. What is the world coming to?
8
Eh. More extortion of unearned wages.
3
To DRS:
Who told you, you earn your wages?
Who told you, you earn your wages?
Most medical residents in the US will be making under the minimum wage if it's at $15/hr. The average medical resident works 80 hrs a week for many years, so about $8-10 an hour meanwhile their hundreds of thousands of dollars of school debt accrues at 6.8% interest. And they have medical doctorates. What this tells me is that our economy is going to go even more underground with even greater demand for illegal immigrants who work under the table.
17
People are underestimating the ability of business to cut jobs. Fast food cashiers can be replaced by iPads. Heck, you could almost run a whole coffee shop with no employees.
Many other low-skill jobs can be automated, and many others ("greeters," grocery baggers), can be simply eliminated if they become expensive.
We should expect a spike in investment in automation as $15/hour becomes more common. There is no reason to believe the economy will magically generate $15/hour low-skill jobs to replace the ones that get slashed.
Many other low-skill jobs can be automated, and many others ("greeters," grocery baggers), can be simply eliminated if they become expensive.
We should expect a spike in investment in automation as $15/hour becomes more common. There is no reason to believe the economy will magically generate $15/hour low-skill jobs to replace the ones that get slashed.
9
Are you suggesting that the American people should just get used to slave wages?
3
'...But critics say the increase will turn the city into a “wage island,” pushing businesses away into nearby places where they can pay employees less...'
And the employees would take those jobs because...?
Complete nonsense. People commute to jobs in Manhattan, many more than an hour each way, for one reason only...those jobs pay more than jobs near their homes.
The federal minimum wage should be raised to $15 an hour and then indexed to inflation. The taxpayers have subsidized low wages for the benefit of the bosses for a generation and the result of this has led to more rich people and more poor people, neither of which the US needs any more of.
And the employees would take those jobs because...?
Complete nonsense. People commute to jobs in Manhattan, many more than an hour each way, for one reason only...those jobs pay more than jobs near their homes.
The federal minimum wage should be raised to $15 an hour and then indexed to inflation. The taxpayers have subsidized low wages for the benefit of the bosses for a generation and the result of this has led to more rich people and more poor people, neither of which the US needs any more of.
11
2020???
That minimum wage of $15 dollars an hour is needed right now! In 2020 $15 dollars an hour will be equivalent to $10 dollars an hour now. Not much.
That minimum wage of $15 dollars an hour is needed right now! In 2020 $15 dollars an hour will be equivalent to $10 dollars an hour now. Not much.
8
They're doing that to give small and medium-sized businesses time to adjust to the increase. In my opinion, it could also give these businesses (including larger ones) the chance to streamline, automate, or downsize their operations so they won't have to hire any additional staff. In theory, it could create a hiring freeze for those businesses dependent on cheap labor but we'll have to see what happens I guess.
I didn't see any incremental increases noted over the ensuing years, until 2020. Why take five years? I can understand, at least, some delay; but, five years seems akin to wanting to be just a little bit pregnant. People whose wages rise from between $8.00-to-$10.00 to $15.00 will be spenders--contributing immediately to the economy.
Just look at the cities that have already raised it to somewhere in the $15.00 per hour range, or begun the incremental increases. Jobs have not been lost. Tax rolls have increased and the demand on the doc ail safety net will be decreased. And for all those uber-wealthy folks, the "trickle-up" idea will work--it is definitely not a myth!
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Just look at the cities that have already raised it to somewhere in the $15.00 per hour range, or begun the incremental increases. Jobs have not been lost. Tax rolls have increased and the demand on the doc ail safety net will be decreased. And for all those uber-wealthy folks, the "trickle-up" idea will work--it is definitely not a myth!
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
2
Wow, this calls for a cartwheel. By 2020 the minimum wage would probably need to be 20$ or more, not 15$.
4
Great news. Now if we can apply reasonable tax rates to the wealthy, like we had under Reagan, tax things like capital gains and inheritances over $10 million, get rid of tax loopholes and offshore tax breaks, and remove the cap that people pay on social security, we might be able to have a reasonable country once again.
96
You think we don't tax capital gains?
2
OK, I get it. Tax those who make the money at onerous rates so that their hard earned money can be redistribuuted to those who don't earn their own way. At least you are honest. Or are you?
6
In other words, everything would be great if we could make other people pay for all my stuff.
4
Reality check LA is smart why spend millions every day in tax money to supplement the poor making 7 dallors an hour with free health care an food stamps an free housing supplemented by government . Unforently other staes to dumb realize or care who,s paying for poor surely not rich they laugh at rest of us
11
Really? You're going to call the rest of the country dumb for not raising minimum wage to the cost of living of California?
You can't even write a legible paragraph. Christ. Leave all your stupid ideas where they belong: California.
You can't even write a legible paragraph. Christ. Leave all your stupid ideas where they belong: California.
1
You might do well to take both grammar and typing courses. Remember, all sentences end with a period (.).
1
Don't worry, when the 'poor' lose their benefits because they make too much from their artificial wage increases they will not be laughing.
3
Seattle, of all places, among other venues, has pointed out that they may not be able to afford to pay a lot of public workers with the new, higher, minimum wage without increasing taxes to fund it. It remains to be seen if Los Angeles can, and if our most liberal cities, already home to the highest-taxed people in our nation, will put up with it.
This also accelerates perhaps a calamitous competition between low-tax and high-tax states and cities for new business -- or even maintaining the ones they have. Restaurants, for instance, are notoriously high-risk propositions to begin with, and almost all of them don't generate a lot of profit even at wage levels that exist now.
It will interesting to see how economically healthy our most liberal states are in five years under the new regime. I honestly hope that they're quite healthy, and that their workers are making more; but I doubt it. We may see retarded growth and unemployment levels well above national averages track closely to increased minimum wages.
This also accelerates perhaps a calamitous competition between low-tax and high-tax states and cities for new business -- or even maintaining the ones they have. Restaurants, for instance, are notoriously high-risk propositions to begin with, and almost all of them don't generate a lot of profit even at wage levels that exist now.
It will interesting to see how economically healthy our most liberal states are in five years under the new regime. I honestly hope that they're quite healthy, and that their workers are making more; but I doubt it. We may see retarded growth and unemployment levels well above national averages track closely to increased minimum wages.
15
In recent years there has been huge exoduses from the high tax states to lower or no income tax states. I expect that will increase. CA will lose people just because of water if this drought continues. Expect to see some major companies relocate if only to be able to hire workers who won't want to work in a high tax environmentally struggling state.
1
Oh yes. Keeping working people poor is really good for our economy!
You people really believe this will help the uneducated and inexperienced lower rung employees? Do you really think this will cut into CEO pay and investors profits? Never happen. The big corporate businesses will be able to hire better educated better qualified multi tasking employees and be able to survive by letting the lower rung employees go 2-1. They will cut back on benefits and medical. The franchisee businesses, which make up most of the fast food industry will do the same, work more themselves, or close down altogether. This Country is not just made up of big corporate businesses. Most are just small mom and pop franchise businesses. At the same time they want the minimum wage raised, they are driving these businesses under with new and expensive regulations, taxes and medical costs. Unfortunately the poor and uneducated worker will wind up worse then before.
58
It's not at all clear that these "worst-case scenarios" will occur. Conservatives who profit from a low-wage business model use these arguments to scare people. But what if we ask companies that actually do pay a living wage? The following is from a recent BBC report:
"A BBC Scotland investigation has found that 10 of the 50 biggest employers in Scotland say they pay staff a living wage.
Jenny Stewart of KPMG, one of the firms who pay a living wage, say it benefits employee and employer: 'We saw a 50% reduction in turnover of staff... staff morale went up considerably.
'The individuals were getting the benefit of the living wage but neither KPMG nor the subcontractors were having additional cost as a result.'
Kinda sounds like a living wage makes a lot of sense.
"A BBC Scotland investigation has found that 10 of the 50 biggest employers in Scotland say they pay staff a living wage.
Jenny Stewart of KPMG, one of the firms who pay a living wage, say it benefits employee and employer: 'We saw a 50% reduction in turnover of staff... staff morale went up considerably.
'The individuals were getting the benefit of the living wage but neither KPMG nor the subcontractors were having additional cost as a result.'
Kinda sounds like a living wage makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps some of the small mom and pop franchise businesses, many of which are afloat on the backs of exploited/underpaid workers who rely on public assistance to survive, should not be in business to begin with. Or the business owners need to accept the new reality of a higher cost of doing business.
Your responses too simplistic- there are no well-qualified, or highly skilled at multitasking people who work in fast food.
This translates into a full time wage of just over $30k per year. Not too bad until you realize how high rent is in LA.
7
The rent is alot cheaper in Mexico and points south. If people in LA cared about the cost of rent, they wouldn't be in LA.
1
Bravo Los Angeles! In New York City, Mayor de Neoliberal is silent, muzzled by the real estate industry and other lobbyists. In New York State, Governor Corrupto is already hard at work watering down a proposed minimum wage hike by restricting it to the fast food industry. How long will New Yorkers continue to settle for sleazy watered down progressivism handed to them by their elected officials?
4
They'll accept it when they realize that full blown progressivism is unsustainable.
1
"But critics say the increase will turn the city into a “wage island,” pushing businesses away into nearby places where they can pay employees less."
Perhaps the city will become a "wage oasis" and businesses that move away to nearby places won't find employees who will work for less.
Perhaps the city will become a "wage oasis" and businesses that move away to nearby places won't find employees who will work for less.
10
With increased wages comes increased cost of living. A wage oasis is a fantasy. People will wake up and see that the real net plus is small compared to the disadvantages.
The more we make, the more we spend. Businesses will do better as will the tax man. Ahh the great circle of life.
3
...and the higher the prices for basic everyday goods. Look at Norway, which doesn't have a minimum wage, but where McDonalds workers make a minimum of $16 per hour. A bottle of water at the local market is $5. A large pizza is $45. A basic burger and fries is $25.
1
If jobs will be lost it sounds like a great balancer, people who work for 7.25 can quit their second or third job...
Maybe health care costs will go down, and children from these families will be healthier in many different ways.
Maybe health care costs will go down, and children from these families will be healthier in many different ways.
4
Hmmm...
I support a higher minimum wage but don't see how it would lower health care costs. Many low wage people work in health care support, and hourly workers in health care who earn more than min wage will expect their wages to increase.
I support a higher minimum wage but don't see how it would lower health care costs. Many low wage people work in health care support, and hourly workers in health care who earn more than min wage will expect their wages to increase.
1
because stress causes illness... sounds like you have never worked for min wage. I worked retail, $9.75/ hr, which is about $1200 a month, single mom, rent $925. do the math, my child still wants all the things she should have, piano lessons, sleep over camp, american apparel clothes, Christmas compared to her friends, while still needing to pay electric bill.
You are assuming that the cost of living will remain static while wages increase dramatically. Most likely, the cost of living will increase in lockstep with wages, thereby nullifying much of the benefit of higher wages.
So, LA is going to raise the minimum wage to $15 by the year 2020! Really, by that time the number of Pizza places will have a higher density than gas stations. It will cost more than that for the maintenance and replacement of used robots.
3
This is certainly a good thing, but it is yet again a half measure. $15/hour by 2020??? That's five years from now. A lot of people will endure a lot of hardship in the mean time. And in five years $15 won't go as far as it does now. If LA wants to raise the minimum wage it should RAISE IT!
9
Many economic studies have been done on the effects of raising minimum wages, and few if any have found statistically significant decreases in employment. Some (for example, Card and Krueger, 1992) have actually documented INCREASES in employment when minimum wages go up. The effects on prices, too, typically amount to slight increases. Yet with more money in the hands of low-income earners, who typically spend most of not all of their wages, demand actually increases, which can explain the slight increase in employment associated with minimum-wage increases.
Fast food restaurants, grocery stores, and most minimum-wage employers cannot leave the area and set up shop elsewhere; they need to be geographically close to their customers. Don't expect a flight of jobs to neighboring areas. Quite the opposite. The "giant sucking sound" will be of more people demanding burgers, cold cuts, and other goods.
Remember, if the minimum wage had kept track with increases in worker productivity since 1970 or so, it would be close to $20/hr. Even if it tracked inflation, it would be around $15-16. This is just barely restoring the real wages from then--which was perhaps the high-water mark for the US economy: a time when we literally put men on the moon while fighting a very expensive war in Asia.
Fast food restaurants, grocery stores, and most minimum-wage employers cannot leave the area and set up shop elsewhere; they need to be geographically close to their customers. Don't expect a flight of jobs to neighboring areas. Quite the opposite. The "giant sucking sound" will be of more people demanding burgers, cold cuts, and other goods.
Remember, if the minimum wage had kept track with increases in worker productivity since 1970 or so, it would be close to $20/hr. Even if it tracked inflation, it would be around $15-16. This is just barely restoring the real wages from then--which was perhaps the high-water mark for the US economy: a time when we literally put men on the moon while fighting a very expensive war in Asia.
8
This analysis is flawed. The vast majority of minimum wage increases have been small—typically one or two dollars above the preexisting minimum. Most of them have also happened in places where the prevailing wage was already, for the most part, above the new minimum. So the effect of those wages on on *anything*—poverty, employment prices—was very small. These new $15/hour minimums are typically $5-$6 above the prior minimum wages. That is uncharted territory, and there is no reason to believe that the studies you mention will predict the effect of these much larger increases.
You are correct that retail can't move elsewhere, but they can cut labor significantly. You can bag your own groceries, and you can order your latte from an iPad. You might also choose to buy fewer lattes if they go from, say $3 to $3.75. Such a change is very realistic, given that labor is by far the largest operating expense for food service businesses. Businesses might not have bothered to adjust prices when wages went from, say $7.50 to $8.25, as they did in Chicago. But a jump from $8.25 to $13, as Chicago recently passes, are too large for businesses to ignore.
The argument about worker productivity presumes that productivity gains have been symmetric across the labor force, but they haven't. Advances in technology have eliminated much low skill white collar work, and allowed other work to be consolidated into fewer workers. Meanwhile, burger flippers and grocery baggers don't flip or bag faster
You are correct that retail can't move elsewhere, but they can cut labor significantly. You can bag your own groceries, and you can order your latte from an iPad. You might also choose to buy fewer lattes if they go from, say $3 to $3.75. Such a change is very realistic, given that labor is by far the largest operating expense for food service businesses. Businesses might not have bothered to adjust prices when wages went from, say $7.50 to $8.25, as they did in Chicago. But a jump from $8.25 to $13, as Chicago recently passes, are too large for businesses to ignore.
The argument about worker productivity presumes that productivity gains have been symmetric across the labor force, but they haven't. Advances in technology have eliminated much low skill white collar work, and allowed other work to be consolidated into fewer workers. Meanwhile, burger flippers and grocery baggers don't flip or bag faster
2
Yes! And that is exactly why over the past 40 years as min. wage has increased, ther are ample jobs. Right.
Well the amazing part to me is that no one is talking about the unions role in all this. I had a retired teamster tell me that every time the union got them a $1.00 an hour the union dues when up a $1.00 a month so the union is not exactly altruistic in their goals. Another problem is that when you start turning the country into a socialist state you destroy the desire for people to be entrepreneurs. The real problem is in the mindset of... well this guy makes this amount and the people that work for him make this amount. Duh! Go to school and get an education. You do not pay a Doctor what you pay a medical assistant. If you don't like working for minimum wage QUIT. Go to work some where else, educate yourself or start your own business. Other wise quit whining. No one has ever given me anything and I was raised on welfare and dropped out of school. I have never settled for minimum wage because I was never taught to. TEACH THEM to work.
7
Business owners always have an excuse for why they should not have to pay a living wage--they have said and will say the same things forever. But the truth is, the time has come for this change. As those on the top grab more and more, it is harder and harder to justify what happens to those on the lowest end, working hard at their jobs. This is only fair.
8
According to an LA Times database, thousands of LA city employees make more than 100,000 a year, including cops. No wonder they are so willing to put down Occupy protests. Those who suggest the city wouldn't pay $15 an hour are living on another planet.
3
I make fifteen bucks an hour at a part-time job. My job requires a college degree. Why I am supposed to be grateful that LA officials think my skills only match that of a fast food worker earning minimum wage?
25
It means you should respond in kind with your employer and demand a higher wage. Perhaps your too paralyzed by fear to do so?
6
This gives you leverage to argue for a higher salary. At least that my thinking anyway
6
I don't know. Are you calling yourself Ordinary Person on your resume? Maybe that has something to do with it.
3
America and Americans have been living cheap for far too long. Cheap fuel, cheap harmful food and very few benefits (poor public transportation) compared to the rest of the modern world which gets what it pays for. California is a bit ahead of the curve.
1
Yes, with their massive deficit and water shortages due to poor planning, they are definitely ahead of the curve.
3
Government tampering in free market....yeah that has never backfired before. *Cough* Bailout *Cough* GM *Cough* BofA
5
Businesses that depend on low cost labor to operate will move out of the areas that call for a high minimum wage. When that's everywhere, they'll export the jobs to another country. People operating within the $15/hr zones will eliminate jobs and ask the remaining employees to work harder. Fast food places will employ cleaning businesses that work outside the area and pay the federal wage instead of using employees. Cashiers will be replaced by touch screen/card swipe systems. Those who trained or paid for an education and learned how to do something you can't learn watching a 20 minute long DVD will want more money. Businesses will use cheaper components/ingredients to maintain price points.
Largely a loss by almost everyone involved. Everyone will proclaim victory.
Spoken by someone who had no opportunity or education, who worked 70 hours a week at unskilled jobs, got tired of that, developed a skill and made good money. I guess complaining that you've done nothing with your life and expecting more money to be handed to you has replaced hard work and taking responsibility for your life.
The minimum wage was instituted to resolve what amounted to slavery, avoid starvation and keep some kind of roof over your head. It never was or has been intended for someone to marry, have children, buy a home or a new car, or have a cell phone and satellite tv. These are jobs for teenagers.
Largely a loss by almost everyone involved. Everyone will proclaim victory.
Spoken by someone who had no opportunity or education, who worked 70 hours a week at unskilled jobs, got tired of that, developed a skill and made good money. I guess complaining that you've done nothing with your life and expecting more money to be handed to you has replaced hard work and taking responsibility for your life.
The minimum wage was instituted to resolve what amounted to slavery, avoid starvation and keep some kind of roof over your head. It never was or has been intended for someone to marry, have children, buy a home or a new car, or have a cell phone and satellite tv. These are jobs for teenagers.
4
Further to Robert: Your business plan is predicated on the premise of using low wage workers to succeed. Change the business plan or change the business.
2
Good for LA. People who work full time should be able to live with dignity and not in poverty.
8
Why??
What is the magic formula that makes you think this is true??
What is the magic formula that makes you think this is true??
1
It's been said before, anyone working 40 hours or more a week shouldn't be in poverty in the USA. Or perhaps keeping people in poverty is a world you yearn for??
1
By 2020 when this goes into effect $15 an hour will be too low.
23
Waiting for someone to explain to me in some detail what does a fast-food worker do that warrants $15/hr?
I'm all ears......
I'm all ears......
5
He or she breathes. Therefore, he or she thinks she deserves it.
Everyone is entitled to a living wage, whether you personally find their job to be deserving of that or not. Having lived in Los Angeles for 10 years, I know firsthand that the current minimum wage is nowhere close to being sufficient.
1
Here come all of the Supply-Siders, with all of their uneducated talk about artificially raising the floor (minimum wage) for Americans. They are not saying anything about facts. It's just Southern antebellum ideology.
The minimum wage has been kept artificially low, with all of those government handouts to big business, such as; food stamps for poor workers, Medicaid for poor workers, housing assistance for poor workers, etc. The defenders of modern-day American slavery are bent on keeping everyone poor and powerless.
We all know that we do NOT have a free market. Free markets are myths. We have a monopsonist economy, where we will never have perfect competition. The slavers within our economy know that. Raising the minimum wage will benefit us all. Low wage illegal immigrants will be pushed out of the economy because regular Americans will reenter the work force, even those Americans you all hate so much.
The minimum wage has been kept artificially low, with all of those government handouts to big business, such as; food stamps for poor workers, Medicaid for poor workers, housing assistance for poor workers, etc. The defenders of modern-day American slavery are bent on keeping everyone poor and powerless.
We all know that we do NOT have a free market. Free markets are myths. We have a monopsonist economy, where we will never have perfect competition. The slavers within our economy know that. Raising the minimum wage will benefit us all. Low wage illegal immigrants will be pushed out of the economy because regular Americans will reenter the work force, even those Americans you all hate so much.
20
Raising the minimum wage will just raise costs and encourage yet more illegal immigration we don't need.
3
Well, if you are right, then why not raise it to $100/hour?
2
Insulting people who do not agree with you is far from "educated talk."
Milton Friedman, who spent decades arguing against the minimum wage as worse than Jim Crow laws, was neither "uneducated" nor had some "Southern antebellum ideology." Outside of a few mental patients, nobody today has a "Southern antebellum ideology," which I hope even you know but just used as an insult.
You have been misinformed on the effects of the minimum wage, likely by slightly smarter liberals and self-interested unions such as Michael's post.
Milton Friedman said, “There is absolutely no positive objective achieved by the minimum wage law.” and ”the people who are hurt most by higher minimums are the most poverty stricken.”
From/for more see:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KYDDLP4
Milton Friedman, who spent decades arguing against the minimum wage as worse than Jim Crow laws, was neither "uneducated" nor had some "Southern antebellum ideology." Outside of a few mental patients, nobody today has a "Southern antebellum ideology," which I hope even you know but just used as an insult.
You have been misinformed on the effects of the minimum wage, likely by slightly smarter liberals and self-interested unions such as Michael's post.
Milton Friedman said, “There is absolutely no positive objective achieved by the minimum wage law.” and ”the people who are hurt most by higher minimums are the most poverty stricken.”
From/for more see:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KYDDLP4
Less jobs for unskilled labor.
7
I am not knocking it. But I am thinking how can many businesses afford it? I see small companies leaving or shutting down completely. How does that help anybody? Then too, companies that remain will raise prices. Again, how does that help?
5
Maybe Americans can do as well as Germans or Danish? Or is that to much to expect?
What does that do to Los Angeles' pension liability down the road?
1
Probably nothing as any additional tax revenue from the increase wages will be spent with little regard to balancing a budget or other debt reduction.
I have no problem with raising the minimum wage - but anyone who thinks it will solve anything is a fool. There will be consequences in the market. People will need to adjust. For one - there will be greater automation in low skilled jobs. I mean even skilled jobs are seeing computers take over... This will only increase it on the lower end. Youth unemployment will also go up.
11
Computers just became more competitive. Why do I need to talk to a real person to order fast food? More self checkout lanes for the grocery stores and other venues. If anyone has a career path in mind that is based on staying in a low paying job but expecting to get paid more, they should re-think their plan. The more it costs in wages and benefits the more likely an automated solution will be economically viable. LA is just putting some more people on the street unless LA is planning to increase training to make people more upwardly mobile. Think about it. Options are available to do fast food and grocery with fewer people. However, there are no robots fixing plumbing or electrical problems yet. If you like fast food, you want to be the person who fixes the self-order self-checkout system that is replacing you.
2
Omg, we progress by inches. It's a NYT breaking news banner that a city has raised it's min wage to $15.
Wow, it's 2015, in the worlds' richest country, founded on the ideals of meritocracy/ opportunity, and once had the world's most prosperous working/ middle class. And we inch toward parity on wages with the countries of old Europe which once had an explicit class system.
40 % of LA workforce earns less than 15? That’s huge. And LA is “considering a measure that would lift the wages of several hundred thousand people who work in unincorporated parts of the county.”? Be careful, LA, don’t be too reckless—give this due consideration! If the unincorporated people have to sacrifice, so be it!
Our 2 term Democratic president has been unable to do much about wages, except advocate? So much for US democracy. Other democracies have consistent policies on min wage, and also accept unions. In the US we leave it up to cities and states, in the name of ‘freedom from federal govt intrusion’, thus entrenching poverty for generations. The causal chain is easy to see.
And think of the years of low wages, along with no health care coverage, no paid sick leave, helping to ruin family finances with job loss, or early disability/ death of breadwinners. Warped idea of freedom and capitalism.
To statements that higher wages will ‘push business away’, how do millions of businesses in other capitalist nations survive with higher min wage laws? Any clue to this mystery?
Wow, it's 2015, in the worlds' richest country, founded on the ideals of meritocracy/ opportunity, and once had the world's most prosperous working/ middle class. And we inch toward parity on wages with the countries of old Europe which once had an explicit class system.
40 % of LA workforce earns less than 15? That’s huge. And LA is “considering a measure that would lift the wages of several hundred thousand people who work in unincorporated parts of the county.”? Be careful, LA, don’t be too reckless—give this due consideration! If the unincorporated people have to sacrifice, so be it!
Our 2 term Democratic president has been unable to do much about wages, except advocate? So much for US democracy. Other democracies have consistent policies on min wage, and also accept unions. In the US we leave it up to cities and states, in the name of ‘freedom from federal govt intrusion’, thus entrenching poverty for generations. The causal chain is easy to see.
And think of the years of low wages, along with no health care coverage, no paid sick leave, helping to ruin family finances with job loss, or early disability/ death of breadwinners. Warped idea of freedom and capitalism.
To statements that higher wages will ‘push business away’, how do millions of businesses in other capitalist nations survive with higher min wage laws? Any clue to this mystery?
41
"The nation’s second-largest city voted on Tuesday to increase its minimum wage to $15 an hour by 2020"...
that gives the City 5 years to raise wages. Seems like a long phase-in period to me. Would have liked to have seen what the step increases were and when they would take effect.
Good news in any case that wages are being raised although the increase probably needs to be much higher.
that gives the City 5 years to raise wages. Seems like a long phase-in period to me. Would have liked to have seen what the step increases were and when they would take effect.
Good news in any case that wages are being raised although the increase probably needs to be much higher.
4
The companies have and will continue to switch to automation regardless of the minimum wage. Most teens do not work 40 hrs a week at McDonald's or anywhere else. These are part time jobs for the most of them. But a full-time adult working at Micky D's and trying to support a kid or two in the process is certainly worth 30K a year. And believe me, the companies can afford this.
In 1979, while attending college, I worked the summertime night shift at a local Coca Cola Bottling plant which was covered by the teamster's union. I made $12.80 an hour back then. Coca Cola was not going bankrupt from paying those wages and we were all very happy to have the jobs. We worked hard and regularly set production records at the bottling plant.
I think most American corporations can afford to pay their workers better. Minimum wage should be the wage that lifts workers well above the poverty level - where a full time employee no longer qualifies for food stamps. Otherwise, we are all subsidizing the corporation by paying to feed their employees.
But if the employee fails to show up for work on time, or refuses to do a proper job - fire the bum and let the next guy have a try.
In 1979, while attending college, I worked the summertime night shift at a local Coca Cola Bottling plant which was covered by the teamster's union. I made $12.80 an hour back then. Coca Cola was not going bankrupt from paying those wages and we were all very happy to have the jobs. We worked hard and regularly set production records at the bottling plant.
I think most American corporations can afford to pay their workers better. Minimum wage should be the wage that lifts workers well above the poverty level - where a full time employee no longer qualifies for food stamps. Otherwise, we are all subsidizing the corporation by paying to feed their employees.
But if the employee fails to show up for work on time, or refuses to do a proper job - fire the bum and let the next guy have a try.
4
Adults who can only manage a Mickey D job are morons and should not have kids in the first place.
2
Maybe when they've worked those jobs for a certain number of years, they should be asked to stop procreating. If they can't get a better job after 25 years old, then either stop procreating or stop getting welfare.
So I currently make $15, so I guess I get paid minimum wage now. Asked for a raise, been working here 20 months, got it turned down. SMFH
4
Politically it is easier to pass higher minimum wages in our nation's most affluent
cities. Business operators there can probably figure out a way to increase the productivity of their lowest paid workers through price increases and some
staff reductions.
However lower unemployment driven by spending would be a much better
and faster way to raise wages as businesses compete for labor. Just saying.
cities. Business operators there can probably figure out a way to increase the productivity of their lowest paid workers through price increases and some
staff reductions.
However lower unemployment driven by spending would be a much better
and faster way to raise wages as businesses compete for labor. Just saying.
2
Well the thing is, when you raise peoples wages so that they are no longer living in poverty then they are able to spend more money. Therefore small businesses should see an increase in profit. For instance, I shop at trader joes because it is cheap, but if i had more money I would buy only local farmers market.
2
So Trader Joe's goes out of business and the employees are out of their jobs.
3
You think raising the minimum wage to $15 over the next five years will allow you to buy only locally sourced fresh food? Could it possibly be that over the course of five years farmers will have to wage raises and thus prices?
Also, TJ is a good employer that pays above min wage. I shopped there when I lived in CA and would continue to support it if I returned.
Also, TJ is a good employer that pays above min wage. I shopped there when I lived in CA and would continue to support it if I returned.
1
Some of the people seem to be envious of a mcdonalds worker who makes $15. Perhaps you too could get a raise if you had a thing called a union. If this country wasn't so obsessed with destroying unions $15 would be considered a pittance instead of a god send. We've been brain washed to believe we're all worth less than what we deserve and that the almighty CEO deserves to make 200x more than even the median wage.
I have rebuttals to those so concerned about teenagers as well. The majority of fast food workers are single women with kids not teenagers! On top of that most teenagers are better served by studying in high school than learning to put a burger in an oven and mopping up floors. I worked fast food as a teenager, I can guarantee you those 2 years would have been better spent putting my head in books as opposed to a fry-o-matic.
And to those crying about automation, news flash it was going to happen weather or not the minimum wage was $15 or .15 cents. Slavery did nothing to stop the invention of the cotton gin, and paying people more for their labor won't stop the future from coming. So how about we agree to take care of our fellow citizens in the present so the future won't be so scary.
I have rebuttals to those so concerned about teenagers as well. The majority of fast food workers are single women with kids not teenagers! On top of that most teenagers are better served by studying in high school than learning to put a burger in an oven and mopping up floors. I worked fast food as a teenager, I can guarantee you those 2 years would have been better spent putting my head in books as opposed to a fry-o-matic.
And to those crying about automation, news flash it was going to happen weather or not the minimum wage was $15 or .15 cents. Slavery did nothing to stop the invention of the cotton gin, and paying people more for their labor won't stop the future from coming. So how about we agree to take care of our fellow citizens in the present so the future won't be so scary.
449
Some of us don't think you should have kids if you can only manage a fast food job. These jobs are meant to be part time work, not something that is supposed to allow the person to support an entire family. Some of us also realize that perhaps unions would be easier to come by if leaders didn't stop flooding our country with imported labor!
2
Excellently said E.
If I could buy you a beverage I would.
If I could buy you a beverage I would.
3
If anyone's been brainwashed into anything, it's that a higher minimum wage is a good thing. No one's saying a McDonald's worker is less of a person than a company CEO; but because the US is not a communist country, people are paid what their labor is worth. And the simple fact is that the average fast-food worker's labor is not worth $15 an hour. If the government's going to force employers to pay an absurd (absurd even with today's inflation) minimum of $15/hour, the employers are going to get rid of those employees whose labor isn't worth that. If they don't, they'll go out of business.
And if you're going to say that we'll just pay those people whose labor isn't worth this minimum with the "excess" that those almighty CEOs "don't need", that'll just make the problem worse. Why do you think the CEOs make what they make? Because they innovate, and when they innovate, they make profits which are an incentive for them to innovate more. Their innovation raises the standard of living. Once you take their profits away, though, they won't have any more incentive to work. Why do you think our economy boomed when Reagan became president and cut taxes?
And if you're going to say that we'll just pay those people whose labor isn't worth this minimum with the "excess" that those almighty CEOs "don't need", that'll just make the problem worse. Why do you think the CEOs make what they make? Because they innovate, and when they innovate, they make profits which are an incentive for them to innovate more. Their innovation raises the standard of living. Once you take their profits away, though, they won't have any more incentive to work. Why do you think our economy boomed when Reagan became president and cut taxes?
1
I am really sick and tired of the Times and other news outlets publishing the opinions of "critics" of minimum wage increases without asking for or independently verifying the data underlying their criticism. "A lot of businesses won't make it" is a load of hokum and has not ever been what actually happened in the past when minimum wages were increased. If were even remotely true, governments would stop enacting minimum wage increases because these increases would be destroying the tax base. Minimum wage increases improve the economies in areas that enact them as more poor people have more discretionary spending. They improve the economies in poorer neighborhoods. They improve the profits of every small business that caters to these neighborhoods and the people who live in them. This is what the data shows. Please deepen your business reporting.
35
I support your recommendation as long as it applies to both sides of the various issues. I see lots of baseless, misinformed statements on both sides of most issues.
To be able to "afford" this, many businesses will raise prices and consumers will be stuck with that "awful" task of supporting people at a more livable income. This is a most gratifying indirect outcome of the occupy movement, and a terrific economic stimulus if duplicated nationally.
1
So it hasn't occurred to you that people might make their own hamburger at home?
2
What if to keep prices the same, mcdonalds lowers the franchise fee and the executives of the companies that make their ingredients lower their profit margins?
It is by such measures violent upheavals can be avoided. Let them eat cake.
1
Imagine the hoards flocking to LA to get all those imaginary jobs - expanding the dole rolls. That ought to make those know-it-all Bently-driving lalas happy! After all, it's the thought that counts.
1
Why $15? Lets make it $50
1
Min wage nation-wide should be 20.00, perhaps even 22-24$/hr, with the average skilled trade or white-collar office position paying around 45$/hr. This what economists have stated for nearly a decade.
Look at how expensive life has become - medical, auto, housing, utilities, food, random repairs / incidentals.
I believe I saw Rob Reich and other economists showing stats proving the lower rung of America hasn't had a functional pay raise in 50 years.
Things need to change.
Look at how expensive life has become - medical, auto, housing, utilities, food, random repairs / incidentals.
I believe I saw Rob Reich and other economists showing stats proving the lower rung of America hasn't had a functional pay raise in 50 years.
Things need to change.
32
The middle class America hasn't had a inflation-adjusted pay raise in 50 years, not since the Reagan Revolution.
Every family that is not in the .01% is poorer decade after decade, while the CEOs grow richer and richer.
Every family that is not in the .01% is poorer decade after decade, while the CEOs grow richer and richer.
1
I can't see the sense in raising the minimum wage, especially to the unprecedented heights that LA has just witnessed. An employer will only pay his employee what his labor is worth; if he's paying his employee more than that, he's going to lose money and go out of business. The only effect of raising the minimum wage that I can see (based on its history) is that it will restrict many people from selling their labor. That means more unemployment, more people on welfare, and a bigger deficit. Not to mention the higher taxes and that it'll require.
2
I really hope that the money and profits will go to the needs of the workers.
However, has anyone seen the new tablets that McDonald's and Pizzeria Uno have to let patrons order directly?
With increased cost of labor, this will likely catalyze automized change.
This increasing the wage is similar to demanding bank tellers receive increased pay while ATMs are on the horizon...
At least the voter will transiently feel good...
However, has anyone seen the new tablets that McDonald's and Pizzeria Uno have to let patrons order directly?
With increased cost of labor, this will likely catalyze automized change.
This increasing the wage is similar to demanding bank tellers receive increased pay while ATMs are on the horizon...
At least the voter will transiently feel good...
3
We ate at a family type barbecue restaurant a few weeks ago. They had an iPad like device on the table. You input your order yourself. The waitress only came to bring food and drinks. The iPad let you play games until your food arrived. Then it gave you a check, and you could swipe your own credit card!
It suggested a 20% tip, but I left half of that because the waitress did so little. How long until a robot can deliver the food, too?
It suggested a 20% tip, but I left half of that because the waitress did so little. How long until a robot can deliver the food, too?
That should hopefully end 50 long years of high unskilled unemployment!
This new wage raise should drive all the welfare recipients, chronically unemployed, new disability enrollees, along with the huge influx of new illegals and present ones to sign up for any job and register with the INS, and bring a swift end to poverty as we know it and help California with a windfall of new payroll taxes!
This will also help solve the HealthCare problems when they all sign up themselves and their dependents and pay for the HMO policies!
Bravo City of Angels!
This new wage raise should drive all the welfare recipients, chronically unemployed, new disability enrollees, along with the huge influx of new illegals and present ones to sign up for any job and register with the INS, and bring a swift end to poverty as we know it and help California with a windfall of new payroll taxes!
This will also help solve the HealthCare problems when they all sign up themselves and their dependents and pay for the HMO policies!
Bravo City of Angels!
2
Neither the Kool Aid or Fox News is working for you.
1
These lawmakers should be declared “saints” by Francis. Their move is not charity. It's justice.
6
Whatever it is, it is not charity. Charity is when you give away your own money. By this act, the City Council is following a rich tradition of Democratic leaders by giving away other people's money.
I wish the article had said whether there are exceptions. Commenters keep bringing up teenagers, but I think there are exceptions to the federal minimum wage for teenagers and some students. Will L.A. make similar exceptions?
2
A unilateral increase in wages will merely increase the price index and they'll be relatively right back where they started with some of them out of a job as a result. If lower wage workers want to make more money, they should obtain the necessary qualifications to earn it rather than inflicting inflation on everyone else. Politics trumps common sense every time but the positive side is that many people might do themselves a healthy favor and stay away from fast food joints.
3
Get your head out of the hole where you live in Virginia and look at real democratic countries in Europe, such as Denmark, Germany, Sweeden, Finland, and Norway.
1
California reminds me of that runaway mining car in the second Indiana Jones movie--it's always careening down the tracks, full-speed ahead, no brakes, dodging one disaster after another...each one seeming worse than the last. And yet, dodge them they do, and they manage to achieve some pretty amazing successes along the way. I wouldn't want to live there, but they are fun to watch. Godspeed and every success.
1
Do restaurants have the ability to compensate their workers at a rate far less than the minimum by considering them "wait staff"? Greedy franchisees can consider that these workers receive gratuities. Many of them do, but those who deliver the food often are ignored, even though teyy are also considered "wait staff" and receive very little additional compensation, in addition to not being fully compensated for the use of their vehicles.
1
Listening to the corporate slaves advocating capitalistic system of how the system rewards effort and market conditions adjust to supply and demand and now are saying that the system doesn't?
Apparently the world is still flat and those that raise the wages will fall off the edge!
Apparently the world is still flat and those that raise the wages will fall off the edge!
2
Is this right or wrong who knows. For the people who are so against it, I guess they would rather the inefficient government provide the lowly paid their housing, medical and other government benefits. The people I really feel sorry for are those who have skilled jobs, work hard and make about $23 an hour in manufacturing, with a non matching 401K. That is the average manufacturing wage here in Connecticut. Those people deserve more also.
2
This is a critically important move not just for LA, but for the country as a whole. The only rational way to start narrowing the wealth gap is to bring up the bottom, not redistribute from the top. I suspect that businesses will adjust, and the extra income flowing into the economy will more than offset any disruption from paying increased wages. Low wage paying companies may lose some profit in the short term, but long term employee stability, loyalty and quality will make up the difference. Most importantly, we can start shifting some folks off of government support programs, which will benefit everyone. If south Dakota, alaska, arkansas and other states are moving in this direction, then its no longer partisan, and the republicans in congress will eventually take note. Great news. congratulations LA>
1
Seems like a good thing at first glance but hope it doesn't boomerang and end up hurting the very people it's intended to help.
There are already a ton of LA residents unemployed at the current minimum wage -- hard to see that number going down when the wage goes up.
Particularly concerned that it will make it tougher for people who are most vulnerable -- young people seeking their first position, people with limited skills, people who have a criminal record -- to get a foothold.
There is also a real risk that the trend to automation will accelerate as labor costs increase.
It's easy to declare a higher wage. Much more difficult to predict its real consequences, especially if we veer into another recession anytime soon.
There are already a ton of LA residents unemployed at the current minimum wage -- hard to see that number going down when the wage goes up.
Particularly concerned that it will make it tougher for people who are most vulnerable -- young people seeking their first position, people with limited skills, people who have a criminal record -- to get a foothold.
There is also a real risk that the trend to automation will accelerate as labor costs increase.
It's easy to declare a higher wage. Much more difficult to predict its real consequences, especially if we veer into another recession anytime soon.
4
One small step for America's underpaid wage slaves; one giant smack in the face to naysayers who pretend that living worker wages are unaffordable.
The naysayers have been wrong about the minimum wage since it was implemented in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 by our great President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
That 1938 law set the maximum work week at 44 hours at a rate of 25 cents an hour - a total of $11 pay per week.
As FDR said the night before he signed the bill in one of his fireside chats "Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, ...tell you...that a wage of $11 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry."
2015 Update: Don't let any 350:1 CEO:worker:pay ratio, vulture-capital, right-wing psychopath tell you we can't pay workers $15/hour.
Congratulations, American worker !
This is what progressivism looks like.
The naysayers have been wrong about the minimum wage since it was implemented in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 by our great President Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
That 1938 law set the maximum work week at 44 hours at a rate of 25 cents an hour - a total of $11 pay per week.
As FDR said the night before he signed the bill in one of his fireside chats "Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, ...tell you...that a wage of $11 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry."
2015 Update: Don't let any 350:1 CEO:worker:pay ratio, vulture-capital, right-wing psychopath tell you we can't pay workers $15/hour.
Congratulations, American worker !
This is what progressivism looks like.
259
McDonald has 20% profit margins and $30B in revenue. Tigers no excuse for them to not pay a livable wage
Well said.
1
“Congratulations,American Worker!”?!
You might want to figure in the number of jobs that were formerly held by Americans that are now held by workers in China and India
There are C.E.O.s who are not “vulture capital ,right wing sociopaths.”
They are (or were) called “Small Business Owners.”some of whom paid our union workers salaries many can only dream of, with full benefits and pension plans.
Now the workers,and the owners,who are Democrats,incidentally, who tried to keep their American workers employed,bucking the trend to outsource to China and India, are all unemployed.
You might want to figure in the number of jobs that were formerly held by Americans that are now held by workers in China and India
There are C.E.O.s who are not “vulture capital ,right wing sociopaths.”
They are (or were) called “Small Business Owners.”some of whom paid our union workers salaries many can only dream of, with full benefits and pension plans.
Now the workers,and the owners,who are Democrats,incidentally, who tried to keep their American workers employed,bucking the trend to outsource to China and India, are all unemployed.
Good work Los Angeles. Hopefully it will cause wages to go up every where in California & the US. Corporations have been enjoying low wages for far too long. Its time to pay people a fair living wage. We need to share the wealth in this country. Ofcourse by 2020 $15 per hour will not be that much either.
1
If only it were so simple--that 'corporations' are the monolithic economic nemesis here.
Ours is a consumer-driven economy. This will do more to jump-start the economy than anything that the Federal Reserve could ever do.
11
I am very glad for the people who are getting this. I know they need it.
But it remains true that some of these people are smarter than me. And are taller. And have better eyesight, And hear better. And run faster. And are younger. And sleep better. And have less aches and pains. And are thinner. And have big-screen TV's and fancy cell phones. And have nicer looking girl friends. And pay less taxes.
So where am I am supposed to go to catch up with them?
But it remains true that some of these people are smarter than me. And are taller. And have better eyesight, And hear better. And run faster. And are younger. And sleep better. And have less aches and pains. And are thinner. And have big-screen TV's and fancy cell phones. And have nicer looking girl friends. And pay less taxes.
So where am I am supposed to go to catch up with them?
I wonder if there is some way to link wages to profit instead of insisting on a $15 minimum wage across the board? I can see the peril for small businesses, which are surviving on a shoe string, since in addition to giving workers a substantial raise they will also be paying substantially more for those worker's social security and unemployment insurance. Clearly large companies that are paying their workers poverty wages while rewarding CEOs with multi-million dollar bonuses can afford to pay a living wage but choose not to. They should be compelled to do so. But what of small businesses whcih are keeping their head above water but just barely? Is there some way to establish a way to link salary to the profitability of a company?
1
If a business claimed that they couldn't afford to pay rent would you be willing to subsidize that? How about goods or materials?
Why are wages the one area where we're supposed to allow businesses to claim poverty and insist that the American taxpayer subsidize those businesses?
Why are wages the one area where we're supposed to allow businesses to claim poverty and insist that the American taxpayer subsidize those businesses?
3
its only fair.... on the other hand... california is already so expensive, will this drive costs up more, will it matter? Will people be fair?
BUT AMERICA...Now hear this.
By 2020, I predict that "inflation", that long gone robber of wealth, will have returned to the fore. And thus, America's working poor as well as the middle class will see whatever gains they get, from whatever sources, get "devalued" to approximately the same place American workers are today.
Our poor and "middle class" will remain as they are. But you ask, what of the rich and super-rich? What happens with those folks is as follows: In a good economy, the rich get richer; if it's a moderate economy their wealth is preserved; and in a period of intense inflation, the only effect on them is that they become somewhat less rich. And obviously here, the defining word is "RICH". Readers of this post are welcome to take this post to the bank!
By 2020, I predict that "inflation", that long gone robber of wealth, will have returned to the fore. And thus, America's working poor as well as the middle class will see whatever gains they get, from whatever sources, get "devalued" to approximately the same place American workers are today.
Our poor and "middle class" will remain as they are. But you ask, what of the rich and super-rich? What happens with those folks is as follows: In a good economy, the rich get richer; if it's a moderate economy their wealth is preserved; and in a period of intense inflation, the only effect on them is that they become somewhat less rich. And obviously here, the defining word is "RICH". Readers of this post are welcome to take this post to the bank!
2
So it seems your comment implies the current status of inequality and corporate abuse in the USA is just what God designed and everything else is unnatural and destined to failure?
1
This ought to be viewed as a social experiment in whether or not a significant increase in the minimum wage will dramatically reduce poverty of cost a lot of minimum wage jobs over a period of a few years. Economists should start looking for comparables to use to measure results, rather than waiting until later and then choosing comparables to demonstrate their own biases. My own feeling is that it will get a fair number of people out of poverty (those that keep their jobs), but will lead to a significant amount of automation over 3-4 years. I am willing to be proven wrong by an open and fair analysis though.
2
Given that universal application of wage increases is likely to cause an inflationary spiral, I don't think it's going to be the wealthy who will suffer from it. Wage increases for unskilled labor will cause spikes in the pay of public sector employees; many are baked-in with small print. The idea that this "living wage" can be sustained because of political and emotional pressures, and the "best of intentions," isn't likely to cause coincident benefits to the labor market in general. This is an understandable reaction to an economy where entire generations see no growth at all in actual buying power or the job opportunities that come with it. But it certainly doesn't mean it's good economics; it means that we've reached a point where we don't believe anymore, at all, in truly growing the economy and having a dispassionate, apolitical discussion about achieving that.
Won't this deter minimum wage workers from trying to get a better job?
1
It will cause more people to compete for their jobs. College graduates who can't find anything else will work in a fast-food place for $15 an hour. Naturally, employers will prefer to hire them.
1
[[ Yes I Am Right Los Angeles
Won't this deter minimum wage workers from trying to get a better job?]]
No. A lack of skills, education and motivation will deter workers from getting a better job. They need to be deterred from having children, because even $15 an hour won't save you if you pop out four or six rug rats.
Won't this deter minimum wage workers from trying to get a better job?]]
No. A lack of skills, education and motivation will deter workers from getting a better job. They need to be deterred from having children, because even $15 an hour won't save you if you pop out four or six rug rats.
1
Using your rationale we should bring back slavery.
Here on planet Earth there is a shortage of well paying jobs.
Here on planet Earth there is a shortage of well paying jobs.
1
Wonderful! Now we'll ALL get raises to keep everything in sync.. As long as consumers are willing to pay the increases in my fees, not a problem for me. But we do vote with our pocketbooks -- so vote away!
It's a conundrum.
If the guy stocking shelves at the grocery store is now getting $15, and the manager of the butcher shop was already getting $15, then the manager is going to want a raise.
If the guy stocking shelves at the grocery store is now getting $15, and the manager of the butcher shop was already getting $15, then the manager is going to want a raise.
1
Wonderful! Corporate America has gotten way without giving lower- and middle-income workers a real raise in 30 years. It's about time everyone got one.
It's great that Los Angeles is raising its minimum wage however there are so many illegals there that are willing to work for a lot less.
To raise wages, we first need to clamp down on illegal immigration.
To raise wages, we first need to clamp down on illegal immigration.
4
We actually just need to clamp down on labor laws so that they apply to undocumented workers.
Well first remember that California is part of the stolen territory of Mexico. Who are the illegals?
1
A prediction: Just like after marriage equality, the Affordable Care Act, and Obama being elected president, the world will not end even though it might feel that way to the less enlightened.
16
The argument against a higher minimum wage is based on greed, simple disgusting greed.
Employers do not want to pay a higher wage.
We can get some perspective from the reluctance to cover domestic workers in the 30's when minimum wage legislation was first passed.
http://wamc.org/post/dr-vanessa-may-seton-hall-university-labor-law-and-...
"In New York, two bills proposed a minimum wage and maximum hours for domestics. Surprisingly, prominent women's organizations, including the YWCA, the Consumers' League, the League of Women Voters, and the Women's City Club, refused to fully support the bills. These groups had lobbied hard for the Fair Labor Standards Act. They had written, campaigned for, and championed much of the progressive legislation that made the New Deal transformative. A bill for domestic labor standards could not pass without their support.
Why were they so reluctant? First, the members of these organizations were middle and upper-class women worried about maintaining access to CHEAP household help. They, like professionals today, depended on domestics to do the housework while they pursued other interests. "
Rich phonies wanted to be able to pay their servants low wages to do tasks the phonies should be doing themselves.
Employers do not want to pay a higher wage.
We can get some perspective from the reluctance to cover domestic workers in the 30's when minimum wage legislation was first passed.
http://wamc.org/post/dr-vanessa-may-seton-hall-university-labor-law-and-...
"In New York, two bills proposed a minimum wage and maximum hours for domestics. Surprisingly, prominent women's organizations, including the YWCA, the Consumers' League, the League of Women Voters, and the Women's City Club, refused to fully support the bills. These groups had lobbied hard for the Fair Labor Standards Act. They had written, campaigned for, and championed much of the progressive legislation that made the New Deal transformative. A bill for domestic labor standards could not pass without their support.
Why were they so reluctant? First, the members of these organizations were middle and upper-class women worried about maintaining access to CHEAP household help. They, like professionals today, depended on domestics to do the housework while they pursued other interests. "
Rich phonies wanted to be able to pay their servants low wages to do tasks the phonies should be doing themselves.
14
Wow. What deep economic analysis. Can't wait to see this play out. Even more of LA's economy will go underground. It's already 25% who are "off the books" and don't pay taxes.
True that there are many people who are simply unable to see beyond greed. But on the other hand, many small businesses fail and many are on the edge so for some employers a higher minimum wage will truly be a hardship. What we need is a way to give everyone a living wage (more than $15 in fact in some cases) while protecting small businesses that are vulnerable.
I'm all for a "livable wage," but the money will have to come from somewhere. Prices will go up because profitable businesses will want to maintain their current margins.
Two unadvertised effects will be the increase in taxes reaped by government, which likely won't pay debt as much as it could, and the inflating of the American economy versus foreign competitors, giving imports another advantage.
Get what you can out of it.
Two unadvertised effects will be the increase in taxes reaped by government, which likely won't pay debt as much as it could, and the inflating of the American economy versus foreign competitors, giving imports another advantage.
Get what you can out of it.
9
With the cost of living being what it is in NY, the minimum wage should be substantially higher than LA. How about 20/hour? And what are they waiting for? 5 years before it reaches the higher rate. Why? People need money now.
The more they make, the more will be spent and put back into the economy.
Win. Win. Win.
The more they make, the more will be spent and put back into the economy.
Win. Win. Win.
1
Strangely, the minimum wage in NYC is quite low compared to other places in the US -- it always has been. Yet the costs here are astronomically higher.
For example: the minimum wage in NYC is $8.75 vs. $8.25 in Cleveland, Ohio. But a studio apartment in NYC is at least $2000 and often much more. A studio apartment in Cleveland would be about $400.
I can't explain this either.
For example: the minimum wage in NYC is $8.75 vs. $8.25 in Cleveland, Ohio. But a studio apartment in NYC is at least $2000 and often much more. A studio apartment in Cleveland would be about $400.
I can't explain this either.
This is great, everyone is making at least 15 dollars an hour by 2020. But remember since we are raising the cost to operate a business, don't be surprised that the dollar meal will gone, hours will be cut and jobs lost. But it is okay for me to get 15 dollars per hour.
12
The dollar menu was possible only because people were working at slave wages to produce it.
Good bye summer jobs for college and high school students. And hello to staff cuts and greater automation of those other minimum wage jobs.
90
That trend has already been well established, long before the minimum wage hike. The problems are cost of living increases and the cavernous divide between super rich and the rest of us. When someone's basic idea of his lowest acceptable salary is $25mm, while his employees make pennies, there is something badly wrong, both morally and economically. This divided economy will inevitably implode, and people who are scraping by will find themselves on the street. Oh, wait a minute, that's already the case.
Do you mean that you think that the people doing the minimum wage jobs do not need of a living wage? So, then tell how is that those persons were supposed to support themselves and their families?
1
Or perhaps, with the income from those summer jobs, students will graduate with less debt and be able to more fully participate in the economy as young adults.
The staff cuts argument always amazes me. As if employers who pay minimum wage have more employees than they need, just for fun? Employers who are controlling costs to the degree that they are paying minimum wage are not carrying excess employees, thus there is no room for staff cuts.
Regarding the automation, it will come regardless of the minimum wage.
The staff cuts argument always amazes me. As if employers who pay minimum wage have more employees than they need, just for fun? Employers who are controlling costs to the degree that they are paying minimum wage are not carrying excess employees, thus there is no room for staff cuts.
Regarding the automation, it will come regardless of the minimum wage.
1
I am librarian, with a Master's degree and 10 years experience. What this tells me is that I've wasted my time on schooling and study. I can make the same money flipping burgers. And this makes sense because...???
140
Don't worry. When the minimum wage goes to $15 an hour, a master's degree will be required for working at McDonald's.
7
Why would you ever think you were going to make money being a Librarian?
9
So you would rather have them keep earning less so you feel better about your probably also unfairly low wages. That's like a minimum wage person being outraged by people who help the homeless. "Hey, I flip burgers for a living, this guy doesn't even work, and gets fed. No fair!" How about justice for you AND the fast food workers. This is not a zero sum game.
22
For an expensive city like LA, a minimum wage of $15 an hour is an absolute must, for the survival of millions of its residents.
109
Who made LA an 'expensive city'?
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Oh.....I know this one Alex. Who are the liberals? That is correct. I'll take socialism for $1000.
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The Government takes 40 t0 45% of every dollar earned. If you are a Democrat and support huge Government this works. The average Federal Employee recieves $107,000.00 a year. Should not that be the minimum wage?
Good job Mayor Garcetti and the city council. I personally know of medical assitants at a nonprofit clinic who make minimum wage while the CEO makes over 275K. It's time to pay these hard working people more than what they currently earn. 15 dollars an hour is a start, but they certainly deserve more.
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The labor market determines wages rather than puny government efforts that are nothing but inflationary political theater.
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Yeah that sounds like it will work. A medical assistant who works for a non profit with the government forcing a person to pay the MA more money. What's that I hear? LAYOFFS!
And very certainly the CEO deserves much, MUCH less. Plus you mentioned "nonprofit"? Who are we kidding here?
Raising minimum wage will never work. Its great that companies and states are addressing the issue. The real problem is cost of living. Businesses tend to be threatened and scared easily. When this occurs they raise prices and fire lower employees to save money for senior staff bonuses. The biggest occurrences of this were prior to 911. Macdonalds cheeseburger was 69 cents. The whole country freaked out, prices of everything started climbing. The the housing market crash. Prices went up again. Within the last few months oil prices have dropped by the barrel and we saw some relief there. But Halliburton says that 5000 employees will have to be let go to compensate for the less than huge handfuls of money their investors were use to getting. Oil hasn't become more expensive but gas prices are higher here in Arizona than they were just a few months ago. Laws should be passed to prevent tyrants from hording money. Not just laws that wont help 5 years from now. Cost of living will just keep going up. Pretty soon $15 an hour wont help.
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Has it ever occurred to you that since prices everywhere went up, so did the price of McDonald's?
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Raising minimum wage is a proven adjustment that helps shift economic imbalances. It's worked in dozens of developed countries including Australia, Norway and Finland, where min wage is elevated and life moves along much better than in the US.
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The question is how well will it work, and for who, of course it will work to a certain degree.
Great! Now our Governor has no choice but to follow suit. But since New York wants to be the leader always, maybe he will raise minimum wage to $16 with a 50 cent increase every year from here on forward. Then he will be way ahead of the pack. I know. Wishful thinking.
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And it shouldn't just apply in NY to fast-food workers. It should apply to all workers. Non fast-food workers have to live in the same city, pay for the same food and clothes, pay the same medical bills and pay the same rents as fast-food workers do.
People who work full time should not be living in poverty, period.
Hats off to L.A.
Hats off to L.A.
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Why not? People should be paid whatever they agree to work for.
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They will be right back where they started - if they're still on the job. Do you think that every business is going to sit down and maintain their current price levels? Unilateral government actions such as these are nothing but political theater and mindless inflationary actions.
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I worked full-time at min. wage when I was attending college years ago. The job didn't require one iota of skill. It's exactly what I needed to keep pushing me to get advanced degrees so I could have positions that required higher levels of skill. With this, the teenager will now be able to work at Baskin Robbins and serve you ice cream at $15 / hr. lol. oh boy. But it will all work out, because as an employer we will be increasing the wages of all of our other employees... and the concurrent cost of goods and services will go up. The secret to not being impoverished is to be able to have a skill that society values -- at different price points. In today's world, there is little reason for anyone not to be able to go online and learn a highly paid tech skill from a place like TeamTreehouse where you pay $25 a month to learn web development skills. Of course, you do need to know English and to be motivated to succeed.
What if you own a small business and can't afford to pay your unskilled employees that much?
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Then you do the work yourself.
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You go out of business and your employees lose their jobs.
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Lower your other costs, accept a slimmer profit margin, increase volume, streamline procedures
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This appears to be government tampering with the free market's ability to keep some people poor and others fabulously rich.
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Sarcasm I hope.
Jim are you being facetious ?
Yes, Pat, I am. I certainly hope that the 262 people who recommended my comment didn't believe that I wasn't being facetious - but who knows?
More incentive for business owners to replace people with software and capital equipment wherever possible. As is described in the well-known Youtube video, Humans Need Not Apply: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU
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That would be nothing new. Companies have already been making such changes.
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I think increased use of automation and technology is great. The issue is the false premise presented by the current economic system that everyone MUST work and have a job, aka wage slavery. Every machine that replaces a task frees up a human being to exercise the pursuit of happiness, leisure, creativity, intellect, etc.
So the primary conundrum becomes: how do we change the system such that all the benefits and profits of increased automation and technology do not merely siphon off to the owners/capitalists/investors?
It's clear that the current system is not working; the advent of computers increased worker productivity, but workers have not seen any of the benefits.
So the primary conundrum becomes: how do we change the system such that all the benefits and profits of increased automation and technology do not merely siphon off to the owners/capitalists/investors?
It's clear that the current system is not working; the advent of computers increased worker productivity, but workers have not seen any of the benefits.
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Congratulations for your achievement in the ongoing struggle for fairness for all employees.
However, it is still shameful that most corporations in this country are too abusive toward their employees and refuse to pay a minimum of $15 dollars an hour, even when such minimum wage of $15 dollars an hour is only 60-65% of what workers for the very same transnational corporations are paid, by law, in several successful European countries.
However, it is still shameful that most corporations in this country are too abusive toward their employees and refuse to pay a minimum of $15 dollars an hour, even when such minimum wage of $15 dollars an hour is only 60-65% of what workers for the very same transnational corporations are paid, by law, in several successful European countries.
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I think if workers increase their productivity to justify the $15 hr. wage, it can work. But if workers do not become more productive, companies will probably flee the high wage area. I guess management and their workers have to make an agreement. I know that, even adjusted for inflation, $15 per hour is quite a bit higher than the $3.10 per hour I received when working for minimum wage in NY in the 1980's. There has not been 500 % inflation since the 1980,s.
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The current workers they have will not become more productive. Instead, they'll hire better-educated, more productive workers, and use fewer of them. Three guys with college degrees will replace six high-school grads.
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Implicit in your assertion is that other things haven't changed since the 80's either.
Wrong.
Kids don't work at McD's anymore. Adults do. It's the only job many of them can find. (There goes your argument).
Wrong.
Kids don't work at McD's anymore. Adults do. It's the only job many of them can find. (There goes your argument).
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I guess you haven't bought a house or tried to rent since then either.
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So here is the obvious question. Why $15? Why not $25? Wouldn't the people pushing this prefer to make $25 an hour as a minimum rather than $15? Wouldn't that improve their quality of life even more? Since the level is an arbitrary government mandate, not tied the economics of running any particular business, or the value of the labor in terms of productivity, or what customers are willing to pay, then why stop at $15? And if the argument against $25 is that it would be too steep and might endanger the very jobs (and constituencies) that are trying to be served by this ploy, then there is an explicit recognition that higher wages untethered from any economic rationale are at some point counterproductive to those they are supposed benefit. And does anyone really know where that point is? So pat yourself on the back urban liberal politicians, and anytime we want another raise, we can just take to the streets and get one. Can't we?
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If you had been reading about income inequality, income disparity, the cost of living increases over the last 30 years and the real loss of income by low wage earners through a variety of things (employers cutting back benefits, paying the lowest wage possible, etc), the real cost of real estate and the real cost of maintaining a "basic" lifestyle. You know, roof over your head, food on the table, access to a good education, healthcare. Or, is your definition of basic different? What would you withhold?
What would you like the wage to be? Is there a floor for you or, would you abolish the minimum wage?
What would you like the wage to be? Is there a floor for you or, would you abolish the minimum wage?
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This is a disingenuous argument. There is clearly a threshold--the ability to support oneself and/or one's family--that the current minimum wage doesn't meet. If $15 meets it, I think that's all that advocates of this move are asking.
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Please explain to me the economic rationale for CEO's making 400% what the workers in his business - the ones who create the product that is lining his pockets with platinum. How is that economically reasonable or feasible. A tiny percentage with a huge majority of the $ cannot do anything but shrink an economy. We all buy toilet paper and pencils and bread. However, the amount an individual buys does not increase with his salary. 1%-ers don't buy thousand of loaves to our one loaf. So their money does not contribute more to the economy; only so many loaves are sold, and the baker goes out of business. And let's not go all trickle down, because someone's 300 foot yacht, or island retreat or designer gown 'makes jobs.' No. Again, only so much labor and so many resources go into that yacht. Not enough to make a dent in what that hoarded cash takes out of the economy.
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This is a total mistake. Fast food workers are mostly teenagers who are simply not worth 30k a year. An extra dollar an hour would have been fine. This is going to kill jobs there. The companies will just switch to automation and get rid of these jobs.
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Wrong.....The average fast food worker is 29 years old.
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Once again, the ideologues on the right are predicting how this (like so many good ideas) will kill jobs. This is an empirical question, unfortunately for them. And my guess is that they will be empirically wrong again, as usual. That's why I call it an ideology. Inside that ideology, tax cuts for the rich create jobs and any help to others kills jobs, and neither seems to actually happen...like, ever! Yet they refuse to learn from experience. Why? Because it fills their wallets on others' dimes. Enough: let's pay the makers (of burgers and other things) and say 'NO' to the takers in their jets.
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Do you have evidence to support your claim that fast-food workers are mostly teenagers? I think you are incorrect. You also make an unsubstantiated (and unlikely to occur) claim about companies' reactions. Let's see what happens.
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Help. If the minimum wage will be $15 by 2020 u can expect prices to go up. Nothing against minimum wage but I would think it's starting point to gain experience be rewarded with raises They are hurting their own cause.
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Some - but the argument that it has a large impact is not the case because the cost any item sold is made up of many other costs besides wages (overhead costs, materials, transportation) and not all wages are minimum wage - so not even all wages impacting cost on an item will be increased. So the cost per item from the min wage worker getting a raise is not a large % of the cost of the item that is being sold. In addition, these lower income folks spend all - or nearly all of their income right back into their own community - the boost the the economy is really huge. Studies have shown that actually more business move into these areas to take advantage of the increase purchasing power compared to some who may leave seeking low wage workers. Available jobs did not decline.
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I have the same reservations... but as I read on, historically raising the minimum wage does not result in higher prices... people deserve a living wage
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Excuse me: What is Your livable wage Mr. Scooler?
Teens will suffer greatly from this.
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I have news for you, teens are already suffering and the minimum wage has nothing to do with it. Jobs for teens became extinct following the start of the Great Recession.
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Rima: There are many teenagers who are willing to work for $5 an hour but the government prevents them from doing that, so they make $0 instead.
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@Man with No Name: You have No Facts, either. Fewer than one-third of fast-food workers are teenagers.
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Where's our President on this? Oh yes, $10.10 per hour, for all those people who the TPP has spared.
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Congratulations LA. Once again you have proved that politics at the federal level is all but dead, but not even a moribund Congress can stop progress.
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Coming soon to a McDonald's near you: $15 Cheeseburgers. Someone has to pay for the difference and you better believe it's not going to be the profit margin.
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To Alex from Tampa, FL:
You are wrong Alex. In Europe people are paid $22 dollars an hour in McDonalds and hamburgers there cost the same or even a little less. Try to get informed before making such negative statements.
You are wrong Alex. In Europe people are paid $22 dollars an hour in McDonalds and hamburgers there cost the same or even a little less. Try to get informed before making such negative statements.
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Alberto: fast food in Western Europe, and Scandinavia in particular, is WAY more expensive.
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European chain restaurants are a false analogy. In many of the European nations there is a government run social safety-net set up, including unemployment, disability, social security and so on which is not funded by payroll taxes as it is here.
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A "living wage" and more money to spend to help the economy grow. How good is that!
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No, how WRONG is that! Prices will just go up on everything else now. Why can't libs grasp that? I thought you were all so brilliant and college educated?
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jerry, NO prices don't have to go up, CEO's, executive's and shareholders (all who make ridiculous amounts) could make less or even stay the same - why can't right wingers grasps this, oh that's right they are selfish and greed beyond belief.
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Some jobs shouldn't pay much. Flipping burgers isn't supposed to be a $15 a hour job. Where is the incentive for the worker to improve himself if it's just handed to him?
“They are asking businesses to foot the bill on a social experiment that they would never do on their own employees,” said Stuart Waldman, president of the Valley Industry and Commerce Association, a trade group that represents companies and other organizations in Southern California. “A lot of businesses aren’t going to make it. It’s great that this is an increase for some employees, but the sad truth is that a lot of employees are going to lose their jobs.”
We shall see. My guess is that LA will do just fine and few if any workers will lose their jobs.
We shall see. My guess is that LA will do just fine and few if any workers will lose their jobs.
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The illegal immigrants won't lose their jobs, they will still be paid under the table well below the minimum wage. American citizens who don't work in tech, finance or entertainment will be AWOL.
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I made less than 15 dollars an hour when I graduated from college a few years ago and landed my first job. Let me clarify that this job required a college education. I'm all for bettering the lives of Americans everywhere but I can't help but feel a little unnerved knowing that someone who flips burgers for a living can make just as much if not more than a college educated individual. This has been and will continue to be a tough subject for sure.
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Psst...don't tell anyone but, economists have pretty much figured out that when the min wage gets boosted there is a similar if not exact change in salaries & wages to other workers making more than min. wage.
Like I said, don't tell anybody. Just go ask for a raise.
Like I said, don't tell anybody. Just go ask for a raise.
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A rising tide lifts all boats, Michael. If an unskilled fast food worker is now worth $15 an hour, just think of what a college graduate is now worth.
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Ultimately this will raise salary of people like YOU. No one should be living in poverty while working full time. You should be happy.
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Bravo! Let some of those outrageous corporate profits go to the workers!
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@ J.Ice - "Bravo! Let some of those outrageous corporate profits go to the workers!"
Is that what the law says? Does the law say the increase in pay must come out of a corporation's profits? You don't think they will just raise the cost of their "products"?
Is that what the law says? Does the law say the increase in pay must come out of a corporation's profits? You don't think they will just raise the cost of their "products"?
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Great News. Many will be better off and the local economy will be better off. Many many more people will have more money to spend to better their lives. A strong miodle class is the best situation for our economy. We will all be able to affford this.
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The local economy won’t be better off. The businesses are going to re-locate.
As you’ve stated :”WE will be able to afford this”, I’m curious as to how many people YOU are planning on hiring ?
As you’ve stated :”WE will be able to afford this”, I’m curious as to how many people YOU are planning on hiring ?
It is to give more money to the Democrat Government. 40 to 45% of every dollar earned is taxes.
Yeah and you will be paying $10.00 for your McDonalds hamburger. In case you have not noticed prices of things are reflected in the cost of producing them. But then again college educations don't really produce anyone who is aware of reality. Many things can't be produced in third world countries and sold to you at a deed discount. Maybe it is better to be u unemployed and on welfare then consider working at all.
A similar increase in Miami including Miami-Dade would have a profound effect on our local economy and send a positive message to similar growing and thriving urban centers. The good things in life are not necessarily free.
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Good for LA. The era of taxpayers subsidizing the working poor for bare essentials like healthcare, housing, and food needs to come to an end. The 'job creators' will squawk about socialism and redistribution, but they too will benefit from the spike in demand created by more dollars flowing. Demand runs the economy.
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@ RP Smith - "The era of taxpayers subsidizing the working poor for bare essentials like healthcare, housing, and food needs to come to an end."
The "taxpayers" will still subsidize the working poor by paying $10+ for a "Big Mack." Do you honestly believe the "evil corporations" are going to take that extra pay out of their profits?
The "taxpayers" will still subsidize the working poor by paying $10+ for a "Big Mack." Do you honestly believe the "evil corporations" are going to take that extra pay out of their profits?
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Tired of Hypocrisy - Taxpayers don't have to eat at McDonalds but when wages are kept too low we are all forced to pay more in taxes to subsidize low wage employees.
Are you really happy subsidizing large corporations?
Are you really happy subsidizing large corporations?
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We could also generate demands and get more dollars flowing by lowering taxes.
Taxpayer-funded benefits are a deterrent from finding a better job or a second job.
Taxpayer-funded benefits are a deterrent from finding a better job or a second job.
You do not seem to understand, people need to earn enough money through a full time job to be able to at least pay for enough food, pay for minimum clean housing, pay copayments or whatever for health care, pay whatever needed for educations, for themselves and their children. There is no magic. Those basic needs have to be paid one way or another. To ask poor people to send their children to work or beg for money instead of sending them to school is not a solution. Placing people in public assistance to compensate for the below living wages is not a solution either. The middle class and other working people who don't receive tax breaks are the ones who pay for public assistance. Corporations and the rich pay much less proportionally in taxes with their tax exemptions and government subsidies.. Many very large corporations in this country pay zero taxes and even receive grants from government paid by everyone else. Corporations have been taking advantage of food stamps and other public assistance to pay less to their workers, as they know their workers will survive their miserable salaries with the help of public assistance paid by the taxes of ordinary people.