Cannot compares apples to oranges. In America, going to a University is meant for more purposes than just to obtain an education. Almost always, parents and students compare the athletic departments, college dormitory facilities, entertainment options available and food options available. I yearn to prospective students and their families to instead look at the value of the education and the ROI on the degree. If you are in the NYC area, consider getting an education at a CUNY school. In-state tuition runs about $5500 a year and the ROI is just fantastic. You also have the entire city and its diverse population and architecture to educate you.
The author is correct, competition from out of state students has increased dramatically as families look for world class education at lower cost.
I can tell you that competition for admission to BIG10 engineering schools spiked dramatically across the board in 2012.
My son was unsuccessful getting into Stanford, we could not afford Michigan, but the other BIG10 schools offered world class education at a compelling value. And good food and recreational centers.
This discussion raises a basic question: Is the founding charter of the land grant universities to ensure young people of that state receive a world class education at affordable prices? The answer is yes. The practical question is: Is it more interesting and beneficial for students to have mobility across the nation? Yes. Must this mobility always be a formal reciprocity agreement fine tuned to account for population imbalances? Not always. Both reciprocity agreements between states, and free competition among leading Public universities, is better for the individual, states, universities, and the nation. We need to share ideas and people across state boundaries, because it is a strategic advantage in an every more competitive world.
More students are going to their second choice school, which brings more heartbreak in April, but they will be more than fine. Published research indicates success follows the individual, and is not exclusive to (or guaranteed by) an elite college name on a resume.
I can tell you that competition for admission to BIG10 engineering schools spiked dramatically across the board in 2012.
My son was unsuccessful getting into Stanford, we could not afford Michigan, but the other BIG10 schools offered world class education at a compelling value. And good food and recreational centers.
This discussion raises a basic question: Is the founding charter of the land grant universities to ensure young people of that state receive a world class education at affordable prices? The answer is yes. The practical question is: Is it more interesting and beneficial for students to have mobility across the nation? Yes. Must this mobility always be a formal reciprocity agreement fine tuned to account for population imbalances? Not always. Both reciprocity agreements between states, and free competition among leading Public universities, is better for the individual, states, universities, and the nation. We need to share ideas and people across state boundaries, because it is a strategic advantage in an every more competitive world.
More students are going to their second choice school, which brings more heartbreak in April, but they will be more than fine. Published research indicates success follows the individual, and is not exclusive to (or guaranteed by) an elite college name on a resume.
The cost of Federal subsidies for higher education exceeds the total tuition paid to all state colleges and universities. I'll repeat: The cost of Federal subsidies for higher education exceeds the total tuition paid to all state colleges and universities. In other words, rather than provide opaque subsidies, why not just fund the tuition for every student who attends a state college or university. It would be a bargain. Indeed, it would reduce Federal expenditures!
In Ohio, back in the day, anyone who lived in Ohio and graduated high school could attend Ohio State University, no matter what their grades. Cost was negligible. Yes, many borderline students flunked out in their first semester, but everyone had a chance to attend a university and get a good education.
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When I enrolled at Ohio State I paid $35 a quarter and that included supplies in art classes and other fees. I spent 50 years (after graduate work at Berkeley) teaching at the college level in Oklahoma. Low costs make for a diverse student pool which equals in educational value the presence of the the children of the rich.
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I have many friends and colleagues in Canada-I at first found it funny that they all refer to where they went to school as "University" as in I went to University and I thought well which one??? Exactly-they are all considered the same. How nice-where we here in the states are all about "which University did you go to" as someone could be a judge about the individual institutions-really-they are all good at different things. I personally am not joining the rat race with my child (and we can afford to pay) but that is not the point. There are great educations to be found in many places-but then again I don't get the bonus the the Upper West Side stay at home moms get for sending their kids to elite institutions-i am just not playing that game and I am sure my child will get a great education at a great state school.
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For years, my parents had to endure snide comments from our next door neighbours about sending my sister and I to private colleges when the state schools were so much cheaper. The neighbours' three eldest had gone in-state, two to the flagship state university and the third to the local community college. They effectively told my parents how much money they were wasting on our eduction. Then their youngest daughter (7 years younger than her next sibling) gre up. She was much brigher academically than the other three and it was clear she'd benefit from an elite education, so they had no problem sending her to a private university.
I am very glad my parents agreed to send me to a private university, where I rarely had a class larger than 12 students, was never taught by anyone without a PhD and rarely taught by adjuncts. It was expensive, but 100% worth it to me, even if the neighbours (initially) thought otherwise.
Now I live in the UK where people pretend that all universities are equal when they clearly are not. A friend who had gone to Oxford and got a PhD there got a job teaching at a university Americans have never heard of. He tried applying Oxford teaching techniques (1:1 tutorials and presentations to a small group of peers) to his students but they couldn't handle it and he soon reverted to the teaching methods standard at the university where he was teaching.
Elite colleges won't benefit all students, but they are great for those who can make the most of it.
I am very glad my parents agreed to send me to a private university, where I rarely had a class larger than 12 students, was never taught by anyone without a PhD and rarely taught by adjuncts. It was expensive, but 100% worth it to me, even if the neighbours (initially) thought otherwise.
Now I live in the UK where people pretend that all universities are equal when they clearly are not. A friend who had gone to Oxford and got a PhD there got a job teaching at a university Americans have never heard of. He tried applying Oxford teaching techniques (1:1 tutorials and presentations to a small group of peers) to his students but they couldn't handle it and he soon reverted to the teaching methods standard at the university where he was teaching.
Elite colleges won't benefit all students, but they are great for those who can make the most of it.
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Private is not necessarily better than public. There are plenty of private American schools--in fact the vast majority--that are not as good as public universities.
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Agreed: my example is Liberty University
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Thanks to John LeBaron for his insights.
Question:Why has the cost of college education over the last 4 decades outpaced inflation by 400% ? Answer: Administrative fat, not faculty salaries. The new solution in cutting costs while leaving high paid administrators at the trough : hire more lower paid non tenure track faculty and overuse teaching assistants. We saw the housing bubble burst in 2008. The next bubble will be a Darwinian extinction of over priced colleges that leave their unemployed alumni with crippling debt.
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Two thoughts in reply:
1. See Archibald and Feldman's "Why Does College Cost So Much?" for the basics about the relative rise in college costs. Short version: the economics of college are on the order of professional service, rather than that of widget production. The MOOC enthusiasts and their tech ilk want to define education as information transfer and widget-ize it; good luck with that.
2. The increase in administrative positions is a direct (and possibly unintended) consequence of the accountability movement that presses colleges to provide evidence that their graduates have learned something -- the higher ed version of No Child Left Behind. New forms of measurement, as flawed as they may be, nevertheless require administrative positions to manage them.
1. See Archibald and Feldman's "Why Does College Cost So Much?" for the basics about the relative rise in college costs. Short version: the economics of college are on the order of professional service, rather than that of widget production. The MOOC enthusiasts and their tech ilk want to define education as information transfer and widget-ize it; good luck with that.
2. The increase in administrative positions is a direct (and possibly unintended) consequence of the accountability movement that presses colleges to provide evidence that their graduates have learned something -- the higher ed version of No Child Left Behind. New forms of measurement, as flawed as they may be, nevertheless require administrative positions to manage them.
We can laugh in the face "MOOCs" and the "tech ilk" that accompanies these transformational technologies, but MOOCs and other networked technologies will change the structure of higher education. The current bloated costs of higher education all but assure that.
Mr. Le Baron's observations of the attempts of schools to market themselves and raise their perceived quality are on the mark.
*Higher education* is least of all about educating its students.
Missing from the published observations is the over use of *teaching assistants* instead of professors, the employment of foreign *professors* with limited English skills and questionable credentials, the 3 ring circus standards of college admission committees (*diversity* in every ring), and the belief that taxpayers saddled with the support of indigents on the local, state and federal level have the ability to contribute even more money to *higher* education.
Those who criticize athletics might ask themselves how often they turn on the television to watch a scientist explore a hypothesis or a mathematician solve a problem or an historian discuss the possible significance of a piece of legislation.
And those who endorse *free* universities ought to look at the actual education being received in the massive lectures and the culling process that often begins before a child reaches 10 years.
Just like everything else in our society we need to evaluate just exactly what is meant by *quality* education, or *quality* health care.
The problem is that the education received is too often not worth the paper the degree is printed on.
*Higher education* is least of all about educating its students.
Missing from the published observations is the over use of *teaching assistants* instead of professors, the employment of foreign *professors* with limited English skills and questionable credentials, the 3 ring circus standards of college admission committees (*diversity* in every ring), and the belief that taxpayers saddled with the support of indigents on the local, state and federal level have the ability to contribute even more money to *higher* education.
Those who criticize athletics might ask themselves how often they turn on the television to watch a scientist explore a hypothesis or a mathematician solve a problem or an historian discuss the possible significance of a piece of legislation.
And those who endorse *free* universities ought to look at the actual education being received in the massive lectures and the culling process that often begins before a child reaches 10 years.
Just like everything else in our society we need to evaluate just exactly what is meant by *quality* education, or *quality* health care.
The problem is that the education received is too often not worth the paper the degree is printed on.
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