WHY does Obama have to see the Iran deal through ? Is it so that Iran can get ahold of THE $50 BILLION signing bonus in order to re-invigorate their support of the Syrian genocide, Lebanese-HIzbuallah-dictatorship and Yemenite Civil Wa, or so that Iran has the 'right' essentially to develop a nuclear weapon within about 15 years ?
Obviously, taking a country like Iran, which is on the brink of economic exhaustion, if not full collapse, and INCREASING sanctions, whilst also moving in an aircraft carrier and giving them a short timeline to comply with the IAEA wouldn't work, right ? I mean, there's no way a few airstrikes over oil fields, and nuke facilities would do anything to a country that's already facing such huge ecomomic and military liabilities. MUCH better to life all the sanctions, enable the mass murder and genocides, and then readdress the issue in 15 years when they have nukes, instead of centrifuges, buried all over the country.
Obviously, taking a country like Iran, which is on the brink of economic exhaustion, if not full collapse, and INCREASING sanctions, whilst also moving in an aircraft carrier and giving them a short timeline to comply with the IAEA wouldn't work, right ? I mean, there's no way a few airstrikes over oil fields, and nuke facilities would do anything to a country that's already facing such huge ecomomic and military liabilities. MUCH better to life all the sanctions, enable the mass murder and genocides, and then readdress the issue in 15 years when they have nukes, instead of centrifuges, buried all over the country.
4
Notice that Arab countries understand that Israel is not a danger to them, because Israel is a peaceful country. The real danger comes from the Iranian mullahs. Obama's rash to withdraw from Iraq and his appeasement of Iran made them understandably nervous.
6
“a cash windfall from sanctions relief” —That much is true.
For some strange reason, listening to Arab leaders sounds a lot like listening to excuses for failure.
Despite trillions of dollars of oil, Arab states have squandered their limited resources fighting one another and oppressing their own people. The House of Sa'ud builds mosques by the dozen and seems content on rebuilding Mecca - along with a few palaces for themselves.
Sa'udi Arab college students are paid to obtain degrees in religion while degrees in engineering and science languish. Arab states bring in much of their outside labor from places like the Philippines, Bangledesh and Nepal while Palestinian Arabs want for jobs. Many Arab leaders feel their own people lack the skills to take on construction work and Filipina nurses are in high demand - Sa'udi women should be at home, barefoot and pregnant.
The coming water shortage in the middle east will send whole populations on the march. Curbs on CO2 emissions signal the collapse of the oil market, yet no move has been made to solve the water problem with technological solutions like desalination plants and no industrialization to replace the oil trade is even on the horizon.
The "angry Arab momet" is simply an act of pointing the fingers at everyone else - away from the true culprits of Arab despair and anger. In situations like this, extremist religious leaders promising answers to tough questions find easy prey.
Despite trillions of dollars of oil, Arab states have squandered their limited resources fighting one another and oppressing their own people. The House of Sa'ud builds mosques by the dozen and seems content on rebuilding Mecca - along with a few palaces for themselves.
Sa'udi Arab college students are paid to obtain degrees in religion while degrees in engineering and science languish. Arab states bring in much of their outside labor from places like the Philippines, Bangledesh and Nepal while Palestinian Arabs want for jobs. Many Arab leaders feel their own people lack the skills to take on construction work and Filipina nurses are in high demand - Sa'udi women should be at home, barefoot and pregnant.
The coming water shortage in the middle east will send whole populations on the march. Curbs on CO2 emissions signal the collapse of the oil market, yet no move has been made to solve the water problem with technological solutions like desalination plants and no industrialization to replace the oil trade is even on the horizon.
The "angry Arab momet" is simply an act of pointing the fingers at everyone else - away from the true culprits of Arab despair and anger. In situations like this, extremist religious leaders promising answers to tough questions find easy prey.
9
The Arabs problems and humiliations are of their own creation. If they'd have the cultural spine to rein in the Mullahs, make peace with the modern world, invest in education and move towards democracy, free markets and gender equality their self-imposed humiliation would come to an end.
8
Mr. Cohen and many commenters agreeing with him are delusional to believe that Iran's nuclear program can be "ringfenced, reduced and intensely monitored." Nothing of the kind is possible and there is no reason to believe in Obama's ability to achieve this goal. The wreckage of his foreign policy is manifest to all, and his failure to stop Iran's march to nuclear weapons will directly threaten us. He has chosen a very foolish and dangerous course. The exact opposite action is required, ratcheting up of sanctions until they lose Syria and can no longer support Hezbollah and Hamas. Let the Iranian people see the failure of their leaders and try to develop an opposition to the mullahs. That is the only sane path to future security, ours and the world's.
5
I love these pundits like Cohen who speak about the Middle East with no sense of history. All of the tiny little monarchies are servants of of the West created after the fall of the Ottoman Empire in WW I. There is no "Arab Moment". There is a "Can We Keep Faking These Borders Drawn By White People Moment".
1
The problem is not the deal but who wants it more. Right now it appears President Obama is desperate for any deal and the Iranians see that. A bad deal is worse than no deal and the President should just keep on negotiating but no lifting anymore sanctions without a real quid pro quo from the Iranians, not like we got now.
3
Does Arab humiliation also include the legacies of Saladin, a Kurd, and Suleiman the Lawgiver, an Ottoman Turk?
1
"Arab honor and Arab humiliation are in play." Well, not that of all Arabs, just the royal families. This is the source of so much suffering, the fact that the royal Arab families apparently feel humiliated and dishonored unless they have complete social and economic domination over all others in their countries, allowed to trample basic human rights, and are free to practice bigotry, discrimination, and misogyny.
1
Mr. Cohen, unfortunately the voice of reason does not resonate in the Gulf Arab countries. Their blinding hatred of Iran, and thirst for power will override their fragile sensibilities. The reason for Iran's influence in Arab countries is crafty diplomacy; something that the gawkish Arab politicians, mostly playboy princes, have no familiarity with!!
Interesting - no mention of the sanctions and how they - and they alone - brought Iran to the table.
4
There is a major flaw in Mr. Cohen and Obama/Kerry arguments about benefits of any nuclear deal. While nuclear weapon is horrible, it is still a weapon of last resort. On the other hand, freeing Iran from sanctions will immediately put enormous financial muscle into Iran's anti-Western, anti-Israeli, and anti-Sunni policy. The Arabs and Israeli, who are the targets of this policy, understand it very well. Unfortunately, our senior foreign policy "deciders" do not appreciate these concerns.
4
"What is more threatening to the Arab world — a nuclear-armed Iran or one whose nuclear program is ring-fenced, reduced and intensely monitored?"
Would be nice if the fence worked but it won't stop there as we've already heard. The more than a thousand year-old rivalry and hatred between these two groups of medieval - minded Mohammedans is about to go nuclear. The race is on. We should have maintained a hard-line and demanded all nuclear activity that even hints at the possibility of creating bombs be stopped or harsher sanctions or even worse would be put into play. That would have appeased the Saudis and prevented the nuclear proliferation we are bound to see if the current agreement goes into place.
Would be nice if the fence worked but it won't stop there as we've already heard. The more than a thousand year-old rivalry and hatred between these two groups of medieval - minded Mohammedans is about to go nuclear. The race is on. We should have maintained a hard-line and demanded all nuclear activity that even hints at the possibility of creating bombs be stopped or harsher sanctions or even worse would be put into play. That would have appeased the Saudis and prevented the nuclear proliferation we are bound to see if the current agreement goes into place.
4
@Mr. Marty
'Harsher sanctions'?? There are no harsher sanctions, unless you're talking about attempting to starve a nation into obediance. And no one is going to sign up for that beyond the usual suspects on the fringe right, who seem to believe we have a right to be cop, judge, and jailer of the world. And that certainly can't be done at the same time they demand 'government so small, you can drown it in a bathtub'.
No, being stubborn about the options doesn't change the options at hand. Better to try intrusive oversight by multi-nationals than insisting on something Iran will never accept, and giving them the luxury of developing and refining nukes in secret. That approach caused Saddam Hussein no end of problems until Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld simply decided that their neo-con fantasies were more important than reality on the ground. And look at what that cost us and the region!
To me, this is a no-brainer. Those ARE the options short of all-out warfare. Pick one.
'Harsher sanctions'?? There are no harsher sanctions, unless you're talking about attempting to starve a nation into obediance. And no one is going to sign up for that beyond the usual suspects on the fringe right, who seem to believe we have a right to be cop, judge, and jailer of the world. And that certainly can't be done at the same time they demand 'government so small, you can drown it in a bathtub'.
No, being stubborn about the options doesn't change the options at hand. Better to try intrusive oversight by multi-nationals than insisting on something Iran will never accept, and giving them the luxury of developing and refining nukes in secret. That approach caused Saddam Hussein no end of problems until Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld simply decided that their neo-con fantasies were more important than reality on the ground. And look at what that cost us and the region!
To me, this is a no-brainer. Those ARE the options short of all-out warfare. Pick one.
3
Mr. Cohen seems more interested in disparaging Iran by quoting its enemies than in praising Iran for its willingness to work our a nuclear agreement--something Israel has been unwilling to do despite requests to do so by the international community. He also refers several times to "arab" states as if they were of a unified mind instead of being split by savage religious differences. It seems a rather strange meeting of bedfellows if Israel and the "arab states" find themselves in bed together admiring their mutual hatreds.
1
It is an Angry Arab Moment because some Arabs have most of the wealth, and most Arabs have none. Every Arab plutocrat is also a de facto caliph. It has been that way for at least 1300 years.
So, an argument could be made that, from antiquity, all Arab moments have been, and continue to be, angry moments.
So, an argument could be made that, from antiquity, all Arab moments have been, and continue to be, angry moments.
4
As our President's policies palpably alienate and isolate our allies in the region, we cozy up to one of the most brutal and intolerant dictatorships, ie Iran. Human rights? No translation there, but hey let's enable them to get nuclear arms? The (Sunni) Arab states feel they have no choice but to also arm, and be able to deter Iran and defend themselves. They know they can no longer count on us to act rationally toward our allies. Very sad. The nuclear arms race has begun.
1
Iran more intolerant than Saudi Arabia?
Ever had a frank talk with a member of the Saudis' Shiite minority?
Ever had a frank talk with a member of the Saudis' Shiite minority?
4
I disagree with Roger Cohen specifically on his line: "Obama is a walk and chew gum kind of guy."
No he is not. I find him to generally be single-minded and when he makes up his mind he sticks to what he believes. And, without a doubt, he believes that the Iran Nuclear Deal is the way to go. He won't budge, nor will he help the other Arab States that are threatened (rightfully so) by Iran.
Say hello to the Middle East Arms Race.
No he is not. I find him to generally be single-minded and when he makes up his mind he sticks to what he believes. And, without a doubt, he believes that the Iran Nuclear Deal is the way to go. He won't budge, nor will he help the other Arab States that are threatened (rightfully so) by Iran.
Say hello to the Middle East Arms Race.
4
The old adage of holding your friends close and your enemies closer applies here. You cannot ignore Iran so you hold talks and try to make nice as best as possible. Most Arab nations have benefited very well from their association with the US. Maybe it is time for them to decide if they want to kill each other off over man made religious nonsense or move forward to true enlightenment of piece and prosperity.
5
As Cohen says, "Arab honor and Arab humiliation are in play." That is the crux of so many matters in the Middle East.
6
Glad to see that someone has finally admitted that the repressive, medieval Gulf monarchies are secretly allied with racist Israel. What perfect bedfellows they are.
2
humpty Please tell me where in the Arab world is there citizenship for anyone other than Muslims or equal rights for women.
7
There isn't much history of enduring Arab self-government. That is why government of the region has been mostly outsourced to Turkey or Persia since the fall of the Roman Empire.
3
Egypt has been self governing longer that Rome or the Ottoman empire and it's still here while they are not.
Arabs may not have had enduring western style government for an appreciable length of time but when it comes right down to it neither has the west.
Arabs may not have had enduring western style government for an appreciable length of time but when it comes right down to it neither has the west.
1
Why would anyone think that as long as Israel has hundreds of nuclear weapons, its neighbors will not believe that they also have the right to bear nuclear weapons?
2
The way to properly understand this is not any real fear of Israel, but, as Cohen says, "Arab honor and Arab humiliation." That is the crux of so many matters in the Middle East.
4
Since when did Israel's neighbors seeking nuclear weapons stop demanding the destruction of Israel?
6
Most of the Arab leaders of the Gulf states represent some of the most repressive and backward Arab governments. They supported Iraq's disastrous war against Iran, then reneged on their financial commitments. Saddam responded by seizing Kuwait and of course opening the door for America's first oil war.
These states oppress foreign workers, even while being totally dependent on them. Their record on women's issues is backward at best, they are centers for human trafficking and their real angst is that their own restive populations are questioning who gave these leaders authority over them and the right to plunder their nations treasury?
Most serious analysts agree that Yemen is not a Shia/Sunni proxy war. It has elements of religious conflict but is more complex because of shifting klan loyalties and the military involvement of the Saudi's even prior to this current conflict. Their request for Pakistan to send troops to fight this Saudi war is but another example of their delusion that their billions can buy anything they want.
This period is less about humiliation and more about an uneasy awareness that the period of "royal" domination in this region is ebbing. The US missed an opportunity after rescuing Kuwait from Saddam to demand that the country create a constitutional monarchy. Let's hope we don't miss similar opportunities in the future.
These states oppress foreign workers, even while being totally dependent on them. Their record on women's issues is backward at best, they are centers for human trafficking and their real angst is that their own restive populations are questioning who gave these leaders authority over them and the right to plunder their nations treasury?
Most serious analysts agree that Yemen is not a Shia/Sunni proxy war. It has elements of religious conflict but is more complex because of shifting klan loyalties and the military involvement of the Saudi's even prior to this current conflict. Their request for Pakistan to send troops to fight this Saudi war is but another example of their delusion that their billions can buy anything they want.
This period is less about humiliation and more about an uneasy awareness that the period of "royal" domination in this region is ebbing. The US missed an opportunity after rescuing Kuwait from Saddam to demand that the country create a constitutional monarchy. Let's hope we don't miss similar opportunities in the future.
2
Al Melhim in his salutary comment below offers a clear, convincing argument - he should have written this column. Roger is a bright guy but my head always spins after I read his pieces, e.g., humiliation is both internally and externally generated. External because of old history (as if Arab history discloses no history of imperial expansion), internal because of the need to democratize in the face of lingering autocracies and dictatorships. Well it can't be both equally or if it is, a voidness results and there is no way out. At least the editorial board these days charts a clear path in its pronunciamentos. As witness the piece appearing today on the Vatican recognizing the state of Palestine. (Not that I agree with more than five words of it, but at least I know where they stand).
But the point being, I wish Roger take a clear position and then defend and argue it from point A to B. Not every position is valid or deserves a hearing just because someone asserts it...
But the point being, I wish Roger take a clear position and then defend and argue it from point A to B. Not every position is valid or deserves a hearing just because someone asserts it...
2
A key element that is missing from this thesis on "Arab honor and Arab humiliation" is the religious civil war raging between Sunni Islam and it regional power, Saudi Arabia, and Shiite Islam, and its regional power, Iran. This seems to be the more powerful and parsimonious narrative underlying the local wars raging in Iraq-Syria against Sunni ISIS and in Yemen against Shiite Houthis. Unfortunately, President Obama, by immediately rushing to the aid of the Gulf states led by the Saudis in their ill-advised air war in Yemen, has placed the U.S. in an untenable position where you cannot both "walk-and-chew-gum." Instead of saying, "Thank you," for your military assistance, the Sunni Arab states of the Gulf Cooperative Council have brought their George W, Bush mentality of "You are either with me or against me" to Camp David. If President Obama ever is to truly extricate the U.S. from the quagmire of religious strife and the endless Bush-era "war on terror," we have to get back to being "an honest broker" in the region by adhering to a non-aligned, religious neutrality. That is the only viable "walk-and-chew gum" policy that makes any sense.
2
Blah blah blah .....Western Colonialism and Sykes-Picot, what utter non-sense. Ottoman rule preceded Western Colonialism in the gulf for 600 years, the crusaders brief interlude never left the coastal regions. There is no great Arab past to look back too.
5
The factor that is truly "unsayable" in any discussion of America's relationship with the Saudis is that the kingdom has been and remains today the chief funder of the Wahabi fundamentalists' outreach, the movement that created Al Qaida and its many mutating offspring. Perhaps Obama's slight pivot toward Iran is an attempt to get the Saudis to rein in their wealthy subjects who are ultimately responsible for the murder of thousands of Americans and other westerners since 2001.
5
I find a weak point in Roger Cohen's opinion piece is using Amr Moussa's comments to reflect the general feeling the Arab world. Moussa speaks for no one but himself. As one of hundreds of Mubarak's lackeys, he may simply be reflecting on his own humiliation.
I also see that he conveniently rolled over an entire century of colonialism in the region, including the artificial borders and the creation of Israel in the midst of a Muslim region. Ignoring the roots and chasing the resultant symptoms is not how Middle Eastern politics is analyzed.
As I said in another piece today I think both Arabs and Persians alike are swallowing the divisive bait when their best interest rests in reconciliation and unity. Iran, of course, invested in the PR war creating a lot of advocates, both in the media as well as in Academia. And unlike Arabs they rely on proxy to expand their influence. Arabs, otoh, put all their cards in FDR's promise of unconditional protection during King Abdul Aziz, not King Faisal as stated in Obama's press comments.
Both the cultural rift and the sectarian divide that readership here keeps repeating are ancient and by no means should govern modern regional relationships. But how else can we flood the world with weapons to keep the military industrial complex happy?
I also see that he conveniently rolled over an entire century of colonialism in the region, including the artificial borders and the creation of Israel in the midst of a Muslim region. Ignoring the roots and chasing the resultant symptoms is not how Middle Eastern politics is analyzed.
As I said in another piece today I think both Arabs and Persians alike are swallowing the divisive bait when their best interest rests in reconciliation and unity. Iran, of course, invested in the PR war creating a lot of advocates, both in the media as well as in Academia. And unlike Arabs they rely on proxy to expand their influence. Arabs, otoh, put all their cards in FDR's promise of unconditional protection during King Abdul Aziz, not King Faisal as stated in Obama's press comments.
Both the cultural rift and the sectarian divide that readership here keeps repeating are ancient and by no means should govern modern regional relationships. But how else can we flood the world with weapons to keep the military industrial complex happy?
1
Among the Muslim countries, only Iran fares well as far as education, culture, nationalism is concerned. Other Arab states depend largely on the benevolent attitude of their rulers and presidents. Israel has been a thorn for too long and American promise to sustain the Arab monarchies including Egypt, where democracy has been trampled, is praised because the true leader is too much a Muslim to the West. Supporting Monarchies and dictators show the true values of the West. It does not take a sorcerer to know that the root cause of evil in the Middle East is Israel's belligerent attitude vis a vis Palestinians. Flagrant support to this brutal regime can lead nowhere except the emergence of violence and acquiring weapons to becoming self sustaining in case of conflict with Israel. If nuclear weapons falls in that category, so be it. I believe that the Arab countries will no longer accept American double standard where land stealing is condoned and encouraged.
1
A 300,000-soldier coalition would do the trick in less than a month if the nations were serious about eliminating ISIS.
2
Only to be replaced by yet another ISIS, Al Quade or some variation of a jihadist group.
1
"Like any other power, Arabs control their own destiny." but not in the 21st Century. Being a monarchy, that is absolutely corrupt, is like being a registered sexual criminal. Everyone knows that you are a dangerous, brutal autocrat and that makes these monarchies "squeamish. Then of course there is the "noble" history of each monarch: puppets of colonialists who propped them up or installed them to do their bidding: export oil. Arabs do not control their own destiny, but monarchs want to maintain control.
How corrupt are the monarchs? Would they use the most extreme fundamentalists to foster a myth of "caliphate" and religious perfection that brands all variants apostates? It seems they just copy the European absolute monarch field book. Wahhabi theology and Salafist mythology are the tools of the monarchs to keep Arab subjects terrified. They are also the foundational sources of Al Qaeda, Taliban, and ISIS terrorism, all protected and funded by the monarchs.
The Sunni monarchs cannot withstand any democratic movement or any religious opponent without brutality. Brutality is the raison d'etre of monarchy. That any exists today is a symptom of a cultural amnesia or moral lapse. That includes Europe.
Cohen is right. It is the Arab monarchs who must get out of the way of history. Obama has unveiled their criminality. Attacking Houthis, the ONLY effective force fighting ISIS, tells the region and the world that Iran is Not the source of terror, it is the Sunni Monarchy.
How corrupt are the monarchs? Would they use the most extreme fundamentalists to foster a myth of "caliphate" and religious perfection that brands all variants apostates? It seems they just copy the European absolute monarch field book. Wahhabi theology and Salafist mythology are the tools of the monarchs to keep Arab subjects terrified. They are also the foundational sources of Al Qaeda, Taliban, and ISIS terrorism, all protected and funded by the monarchs.
The Sunni monarchs cannot withstand any democratic movement or any religious opponent without brutality. Brutality is the raison d'etre of monarchy. That any exists today is a symptom of a cultural amnesia or moral lapse. That includes Europe.
Cohen is right. It is the Arab monarchs who must get out of the way of history. Obama has unveiled their criminality. Attacking Houthis, the ONLY effective force fighting ISIS, tells the region and the world that Iran is Not the source of terror, it is the Sunni Monarchy.
2
In a more ideal world, the United States could spend resources trying to bring peace and democracy to the Middle East. But not in this world. Most of the people in the Middle East, on both sides of the Sunni/Shia conflict, hate Americans; and there are existential threats from two adversaries not in the Middle East: Russia and China-North Korea. We need to focus on the adversaries who want to and can kill us.
1
I have wondered for some time, seemingly forever: In the Middle East and our role there over the years, just how much more of "our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor" must we leave there?
" Let’s walk this bristling cat back a little, but perhaps not as far as Western colonialism in the Middle East and the century-old, now collapsing Sykes-Picot order. Let’s set aside Israel, seen by many Arabs as an extension of that colonialism. "
You simply cannot objectively ignore or under rate the effect these two major factors;
*Sykes-Picot and
* Israel,
have had on Arab life .
Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire both, obviously deliberately meant to obstruct Arab genuine cooperation and hinder Arab unity, were the decisive factors in shaping Arab life both politically and economically but, not yet?, socially and culturally.
The sudden rise and the unexpected richness of Arab Gulf Oil states with its patent disparity of per capita income/ national wealth and overwhelming media domination may, to the great joy and satisfaction of the Judo/Christian alliance, ultimately do that .
Which, after all, is what Roger Cohn is furthering: forget Sykes-Picot and Israel and concentrate on the regional domination ambitions of Iran and Turkey.
ABSURD but understandable coming from Roger Cohn
You simply cannot objectively ignore or under rate the effect these two major factors;
*Sykes-Picot and
* Israel,
have had on Arab life .
Since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire both, obviously deliberately meant to obstruct Arab genuine cooperation and hinder Arab unity, were the decisive factors in shaping Arab life both politically and economically but, not yet?, socially and culturally.
The sudden rise and the unexpected richness of Arab Gulf Oil states with its patent disparity of per capita income/ national wealth and overwhelming media domination may, to the great joy and satisfaction of the Judo/Christian alliance, ultimately do that .
Which, after all, is what Roger Cohn is furthering: forget Sykes-Picot and Israel and concentrate on the regional domination ambitions of Iran and Turkey.
ABSURD but understandable coming from Roger Cohn
5
I think that Arabs have humiliated themselves. Their primary definition on the world stage is a combination of "royal" despots and primitive clerics. There is no measure of creativity I have seen that includes any Arab nation. I do not question the damage Western meddling has caused in the region, but what Arab nation has done anything admirable in modern memory? All that money and nothing to show for it but weapons used to maintain oppressive societies.
14
The United States can indeed walk and chew gum at the same time in the present Arab Iranian standoff, and maybe rightly so. But for it to be credible, the United States should also be able walk and chew gum at the same time between Palestinians and Israelis. But that would be a pipe dream, wouldn't it, Mr. Cohen.
1
What is even more disturbing is the implication on the part of the Gulf state leaders that somehow the United States should be coming to the defense of those nations by attacking Iran either militarily or economically. This is not our job. We should be starting any more wars on behalf of other nations--not the Gulf Arab states and not Israel. If we let ourselves get sucked into scenarios like this we are foolish beyond all reason.
7
"Obama is a walk-and-chew-gum kind of guy. There are risks to an Iran nuclear deal but the risks without one are far greater."
The only truth that matters at the moment. And sadly, the truth for so many that refuse to see it, including the Sunnis and the Israelis.
The only truth that matters at the moment. And sadly, the truth for so many that refuse to see it, including the Sunnis and the Israelis.
1
What nonsense. There is one Iran. Rouhani is no moderate, and if he was he wouldn't be in the position he's in.
2
Iran is not North Korea. You are wrong.
We misread the Japanese warrior code of Bushido before WW II.
The highest honor of a samari was to ambush his enemy.
If we had known that we would have had Pearl Harbor on full alert for war.
Do we know the true "Bushido" code of Iran?
What surprises do they have in store for Israel as well as "The Great Satan" (the U..S.).
Don't ignore Iran's ICBM development.
It is not meant for nearby Israel.
It is for us.
The highest honor of a samari was to ambush his enemy.
If we had known that we would have had Pearl Harbor on full alert for war.
Do we know the true "Bushido" code of Iran?
What surprises do they have in store for Israel as well as "The Great Satan" (the U..S.).
Don't ignore Iran's ICBM development.
It is not meant for nearby Israel.
It is for us.
3
No. Iran has a history of big talk, but also a highly active and educated population. We--the US and UK--crushed Iran's democracy in 1953, we have a moral obligation to them.
3
If the Arabs are humiliated, then they did it to themselves and their feelings of inferiority. If they were able to see who the enemy is then the humiliation would dissipate. The issue do colonialism is hogwash. There are many countries that were colonies and have succeeded. India, China, USA, etc. The issue is one of culture and ability to move forward and stop blaming every one for their ills.
6
Is it a question of legitimacy?
Nowhere does it say, or said to be, that Iran threatens any Arab nation.
But every Arab nation fears the age-old issues of the sunni-shiitte divide.
And many Arab nations are the result of the Sykes-Picot order. The current leadership set up as minority governments.
Thus the age old plot - the rival may end up as the new girl friend.
Nowhere does it say, or said to be, that Iran threatens any Arab nation.
But every Arab nation fears the age-old issues of the sunni-shiitte divide.
And many Arab nations are the result of the Sykes-Picot order. The current leadership set up as minority governments.
Thus the age old plot - the rival may end up as the new girl friend.
Excellent column. I wish you would expand upon your last sentence "There are risks to an Iran nuclear deal but the risks without one are far greater" and call out the Republican obstructionists who don't understand the reality of the situation as clearly as you do.
1
The Arab "humiliation" has been long documented by Tom Friedman in these pages. How many times are the Arabs going to play that card?
They need to grow up, take responsibility for their actions and failings and improve their society. It may be trite but they, i.e., the Arab governments, are either part of the problem or they are part of the solution. Let them act to improve the lives of their people or shut up and stop complaining. They are sovereign nations with resources and universities; use them and stop blaming your problems on others.
Enough with the excuses. And for crying out loud stop blaming Israel.
They need to grow up, take responsibility for their actions and failings and improve their society. It may be trite but they, i.e., the Arab governments, are either part of the problem or they are part of the solution. Let them act to improve the lives of their people or shut up and stop complaining. They are sovereign nations with resources and universities; use them and stop blaming your problems on others.
Enough with the excuses. And for crying out loud stop blaming Israel.
23
Things in the Middle East have been really screwed up for centuries. It's a good thing the USA came along in the last twenty years to make sure it stayed that way. Our only hope is to elect a republican president to make it much, much worse.
4
While Mr. Cohen's analysis makes sense, the American public should avoid ascribing any kind of good guy vs. bad guy narrative to the region-wide conflict brewing in the Middle East. You have the Sunnis, the Shiites, and then Israel in opposition to both (and of course sub-factions within all of them.) All of these factions are jockeying for their own interests, and all are interested in using the US against their enemies.
As nuclear talks continue with Iran, Americans should be wary of ending up supporting a different set of "good guys." There are no good guys, and we should aim to disentangle ourselves from the Middle East's conflicts rather than get drawn deeper into them.
As nuclear talks continue with Iran, Americans should be wary of ending up supporting a different set of "good guys." There are no good guys, and we should aim to disentangle ourselves from the Middle East's conflicts rather than get drawn deeper into them.
16
If Arabs are a proud people who feel humiliated ... then the obvious questions are "why" and "what are you going to do about it?"
The western view of arab society is not flattering. The Russian view and the Asian view is no more flattering ... just less of an issue in the Middle East.
And then of course the Israelis ... after the 12-day war Mike Wallace, interviewing Moshe Dayan, asked him "To what do you attribute Isreal's incredible victories?"
Moshe Dayan paused .... adjusted his eye patch ... and replied "It helps when your enemies are Arabs."
The Arab nations have become a world laughing stock of cultural disfunction, despotism, extreme wealth and poverty, ignorance and religious wars.
Perhaps the saddest comparison that can be made is that Iran's population is better educated, and by all accounts more functional, that all the Arab nations, after 35 years of religious dictatorship in Iran.
The western view of arab society is not flattering. The Russian view and the Asian view is no more flattering ... just less of an issue in the Middle East.
And then of course the Israelis ... after the 12-day war Mike Wallace, interviewing Moshe Dayan, asked him "To what do you attribute Isreal's incredible victories?"
Moshe Dayan paused .... adjusted his eye patch ... and replied "It helps when your enemies are Arabs."
The Arab nations have become a world laughing stock of cultural disfunction, despotism, extreme wealth and poverty, ignorance and religious wars.
Perhaps the saddest comparison that can be made is that Iran's population is better educated, and by all accounts more functional, that all the Arab nations, after 35 years of religious dictatorship in Iran.
7
Yes thank you for this insightful article. This deal smacks of compromise, with Mr Kerry and Obama handling it very well. It is a good plan or it wouldn't have survived all the tumult and teeth gnashing.
1
"do two things at the same time" No. Do one thing: Withdraw from the entire Middle East. No more troops, no more money, no more arms, forget about Israel, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Saudi, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc. etc. I submit that our interventions in the region have made things worse for the residents and worse for ourselves.
1
Arab states are Sunni theocracies. That simple fact is central to the reason why Arabs are not so much a "laughing stock" in the international geo political world, but tolerated at best and despised at worst by civilized nations.
The Arab theocracies are the religious, political and funding foundation of the most despicable terrorist organizations in the world. They routinely use religion as the basis to oppress "non believers" within their borders and crucify "non believers" outside of their borders. Compared to the Sunni theocracies, Shiite Iran have been a model of responsible governance ... and that, most assuredly, is saying something.
The world will be a much different place when oil is no longer the key energy source in the industrial world. When that occurs, the middle east will be no more relevant to international geo-politics than will Zaire or Uganda or Cambodia. Let the Arabs ponder that future for a while.
The Arab theocracies are the religious, political and funding foundation of the most despicable terrorist organizations in the world. They routinely use religion as the basis to oppress "non believers" within their borders and crucify "non believers" outside of their borders. Compared to the Sunni theocracies, Shiite Iran have been a model of responsible governance ... and that, most assuredly, is saying something.
The world will be a much different place when oil is no longer the key energy source in the industrial world. When that occurs, the middle east will be no more relevant to international geo-politics than will Zaire or Uganda or Cambodia. Let the Arabs ponder that future for a while.
4
One difference between Iran and the major Arab states is that, in Iran, youthful voices have a smidgen's chance of being heard, however imperfectly. Hassan Rouhani is the evidence of that. In the major Arab powers, monarchical or not, youthful voices have been cynically and forcibly silenced. Who speaks out in Egypt any more without fear of being shot to death?
President Obama is right to pursue agreement with Iran and five other major powers, notwithstanding the paranoia of an Arab elite that rejects any recognition of youthful idealism, and domestic opponents in the US who would gamble anything and everything away simply to thumb the President in the eye.
President Obama is right to pursue agreement with Iran and five other major powers, notwithstanding the paranoia of an Arab elite that rejects any recognition of youthful idealism, and domestic opponents in the US who would gamble anything and everything away simply to thumb the President in the eye.
5
Fresh perspective. Fantastic analysis!
1
The very idea that "Arabs" feel this way or think that way makes absolutely no (scientific) sense. Who knows what each "Arab" or different groups of "Arabs" really think? The reader will be surprised to find out that we really, honestly have no idea because we have polls but no serious studies. What we know for sure, is that people (including "Arabs") think and feel and behave differently about everything. With all my respect, Amr Moussa reflects the thoughts of (humiliated) princes, senior officials, and the like. Not the "Arabs."
Boy are we on the wrong side in Yemen.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/13/sacrificing-yemen-to-appease-saudis/
We really are getting into Newspeak territory, Mr. Cohen. The enemies of US puppet regimes, even if they "kill their own people' become terrorists - instead of people resisting a suddenly hostile government {remind you of a certain country in eastern europe?}
Now - the people the Saudis are bombing - the same Saudis who are literalyl supporting Al Qaeda/Al Nusra and, I don't doubt, "ISIS" in Syria and Iraq - they're "terrorists" for resisting a government that is hostile to them...
And the Saudis are fighting terror by dropping cluster bombs?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/saudis-drop-us-made-cluster-bombs-in-crimin...
Are you frightened of where the world is headed?
Not nearly frightened enough - those who profit from war are meeting precious little resistance from an easily-convinced public.
https://consortiumnews.com/2015/05/13/sacrificing-yemen-to-appease-saudis/
We really are getting into Newspeak territory, Mr. Cohen. The enemies of US puppet regimes, even if they "kill their own people' become terrorists - instead of people resisting a suddenly hostile government {remind you of a certain country in eastern europe?}
Now - the people the Saudis are bombing - the same Saudis who are literalyl supporting Al Qaeda/Al Nusra and, I don't doubt, "ISIS" in Syria and Iraq - they're "terrorists" for resisting a government that is hostile to them...
And the Saudis are fighting terror by dropping cluster bombs?
http://www.globalresearch.ca/saudis-drop-us-made-cluster-bombs-in-crimin...
Are you frightened of where the world is headed?
Not nearly frightened enough - those who profit from war are meeting precious little resistance from an easily-convinced public.
2
I've a simple answer to all of this. Renewable energy, reduce defense spending by 70%, and build up,domestic manufacturing.
Stop trying to pick winners and losers from a group of immoral crazies who all still believe in an old man in the sky and think it is okay oppress their populace.
Let them find someone else to hate.
Stop trying to pick winners and losers from a group of immoral crazies who all still believe in an old man in the sky and think it is okay oppress their populace.
Let them find someone else to hate.
3
Mr. Cohen - the longer the neoconservative Deep State determines US foreign policy...
http://www.voltairenet.org/article178638.html
The more inept, dangerous, and counter-productive it will be.
Iran is not working on a nuclear weapon. Israel has hundreds of nukes. The US has thousands. It was the US and Brits who installed a vicious dictator in Iran in living memory to essentially steal Iran's oil.
On top of that you have the US backing Iraq during an atrocious 8 year war, in which Iraq used chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers [and Kurds] -given to it by the Americans.
The mullahs may not be guys I'd like to have on my softbal team, but they are no more crazy than Jewish settlers, the former chief sephardic rabbi of Israel, or the current justice minister, who alone of global justice ministers has advocated crimes against humanity.
The idea that Iran is working on nukes is false. The idea that it preomised to destroy Israel is also false - and this LIE, really, is the root of the problem.
The vilification and lies seem to have overcome the intelligence and good will of people who should know better that most wars start with absurd vilification and lies.
Its time for everyone to go back and re-read 1984... because we are getting closer to it week by week.
http://www.voltairenet.org/article178638.html
The more inept, dangerous, and counter-productive it will be.
Iran is not working on a nuclear weapon. Israel has hundreds of nukes. The US has thousands. It was the US and Brits who installed a vicious dictator in Iran in living memory to essentially steal Iran's oil.
On top of that you have the US backing Iraq during an atrocious 8 year war, in which Iraq used chemical weapons on Iranian soldiers [and Kurds] -given to it by the Americans.
The mullahs may not be guys I'd like to have on my softbal team, but they are no more crazy than Jewish settlers, the former chief sephardic rabbi of Israel, or the current justice minister, who alone of global justice ministers has advocated crimes against humanity.
The idea that Iran is working on nukes is false. The idea that it preomised to destroy Israel is also false - and this LIE, really, is the root of the problem.
The vilification and lies seem to have overcome the intelligence and good will of people who should know better that most wars start with absurd vilification and lies.
Its time for everyone to go back and re-read 1984... because we are getting closer to it week by week.
I suspect that our new Republican president will begin bombing Iran in February 2017.
6
I fear you are exactly right.
Couldn't agree more.
Can't have peace without trying - it's kind of a thing.
Can't have peace without trying - it's kind of a thing.
18
Mr. Cohen writes today: "When Amr Moussa, the former secretary general of the Arab League, spoke here of the Arab world’s humiliation by three non-Arab states — Iran, Israel and Turkey — ", is he concerned about the Arab people, or is it the feelings, and large egos, of nations' leaders?
Should our president, Mr. Obama, care more about maintaining his rightness on anything, even in the face of changing circumstances, like the rise of an Islamic State?
Isn't it more a problem, what any mere "humiliation" over the way things turn out, ... than a reason for any concern? Any matter of "humiliation", it's worse than just if it happens to leaders, the way people get killed, made refugees, having their country crumbled into rubble by heavy bombing.
That is really far worse than how peoples' feelings are hurt.
So of course it's been various nations pitted against each other, and it's been worse that way ever since the U.S. and its partners in war, invaded Iraq, toppled its government, completely disbanded its army, and treated any Sunnis or Ba'athists to complete indignity ... loss of their jobs at the very least.
And now the way Syria is being treated going on 4 years.! It is as if this were Pres. Assad's fault, the way he is continually accused. This amounts to foreign policy based on lies. Anyone's humiliation, especially any Arab leaders' humiliation, amounts to a side show, in comparison to the big circus that the 'neo-cons' brought on in the Middle East.
Should our president, Mr. Obama, care more about maintaining his rightness on anything, even in the face of changing circumstances, like the rise of an Islamic State?
Isn't it more a problem, what any mere "humiliation" over the way things turn out, ... than a reason for any concern? Any matter of "humiliation", it's worse than just if it happens to leaders, the way people get killed, made refugees, having their country crumbled into rubble by heavy bombing.
That is really far worse than how peoples' feelings are hurt.
So of course it's been various nations pitted against each other, and it's been worse that way ever since the U.S. and its partners in war, invaded Iraq, toppled its government, completely disbanded its army, and treated any Sunnis or Ba'athists to complete indignity ... loss of their jobs at the very least.
And now the way Syria is being treated going on 4 years.! It is as if this were Pres. Assad's fault, the way he is continually accused. This amounts to foreign policy based on lies. Anyone's humiliation, especially any Arab leaders' humiliation, amounts to a side show, in comparison to the big circus that the 'neo-cons' brought on in the Middle East.
15
We are dealing with rogue nations and dictators.
Reagan had it right when he told Gorbachev "Tear down this wall!"
Obama is a pussycat.
Reagan had it right when he told Gorbachev "Tear down this wall!"
Obama is a pussycat.
Let's keep in mind that today nearly two thirds of Muslims are not Arabs, and that more than 8 out of ten Arabs are not in the Gulf.
Hearing these guys, you would believe the few rich rulers of the Gulf represent Islam. Truth is they don't even represent the Arab population, and not their true interests.
Hearing these guys, you would believe the few rich rulers of the Gulf represent Islam. Truth is they don't even represent the Arab population, and not their true interests.
38
One of the main features of hate is that even when it starts out directed at one group, the feeling becomes habitual and starts to spread like a cancer. I don't feel a need to love my enemies, but I feel a strong urge not to hate them. This is why I refuse to hate Al Qaeda, IS, or even my disliked American political party. The price I pay is being afflicted instead by a kind of confused dismay. The danger of that state is that when it takes hold it leads to resignation, which can also swallow your soul. I am not superior to others; I have just chosen a different lens through which to view the world.
One of my childhood friends, who was a Jew of Iranian descent, said that his predicament in America was partially summed up by a book title that his dad had discovered long ago: "Persians, Jews and Flies: Three Things God Should Not Have Made," which gave him a strange amusement. I knew about the hatred of Jews; I knew nothing of the hatred of Persians, probably because I lumped them together with Arabs, Chaldeans, Alawites, Turks, etc- they all liked kabobs a lot. My friend seemed generally happy to be in America, but he also radiated a fear that America might turn on his family as soon as the next heated conflict with Iran broke out. His family had fled the Islamic Revolution of Iran, and was on guard for the same thing to happen in America. He became a model American citizen, as his family demanded, but the last time I talked to him he was still wary of the future.
One of my childhood friends, who was a Jew of Iranian descent, said that his predicament in America was partially summed up by a book title that his dad had discovered long ago: "Persians, Jews and Flies: Three Things God Should Not Have Made," which gave him a strange amusement. I knew about the hatred of Jews; I knew nothing of the hatred of Persians, probably because I lumped them together with Arabs, Chaldeans, Alawites, Turks, etc- they all liked kabobs a lot. My friend seemed generally happy to be in America, but he also radiated a fear that America might turn on his family as soon as the next heated conflict with Iran broke out. His family had fled the Islamic Revolution of Iran, and was on guard for the same thing to happen in America. He became a model American citizen, as his family demanded, but the last time I talked to him he was still wary of the future.
9
Our soldiers better hate the enemy when he fires his rifle or throws a grenade trying to kill him.
If not, he's chopped liver.
If not, he's chopped liver.
DEFENDING HONOR As described, Arab honor is at play in the current maelstrom in the mideast. But honor is impossible to defend, because it is gauged by the emotions of the dishonored. What is needed is pursuit of justice, which can be gauged objectively. The nexus is where East meets West. Or will we still never meet? Resolution of the problems will involve diplomacy that shows clear respect for the honor of the parties, while reframing the conversation in terms of justice. Easier said than done. Though it can be achieved. For example, there is the seldom mentioned but long-term peace treaty between Israel, Egypt and Jordan, based upon the notion of a just peace. What I am proposing here is a framework. Let us hope that the parties can be persuaded to pursue just solutions.
5
I think it fair to say that opposition to the nuclear deal that is in the works is based on the insight that it will not work because Iran will simply never live up to its side of the bargain. Sadly, based on the evidence of its conduct in the region, there is much evidence to support that view. If indeed Iran's program could be "ring fenced" and all the rest, the Sunni Arab countries would support the endeavor. The problem is that they do not view that as a possible outcome.
As to everyone's favorite distraction, namely Israel, all of the Muslim countries recognize that it has no imperial aspirations and just wants to be left alone as the historical homeland of the Jewish People. Israel may be an "irritant" to them but not because it represents European colonialism - which was not an issue in the lands of the Ottoman Empire through 1918. It is an "irritant" because the Jews, who had been a despised and subject people under Muslim domination, successfully regained their independence on about 10% of the lands allotted to them by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine of 1922.
As to everyone's favorite distraction, namely Israel, all of the Muslim countries recognize that it has no imperial aspirations and just wants to be left alone as the historical homeland of the Jewish People. Israel may be an "irritant" to them but not because it represents European colonialism - which was not an issue in the lands of the Ottoman Empire through 1918. It is an "irritant" because the Jews, who had been a despised and subject people under Muslim domination, successfully regained their independence on about 10% of the lands allotted to them by the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine of 1922.
18
Amr Moussa says, "Enough". Instead that should be us, saying,"Enough is enough. If the Arabs feel humiliated, it's their own doing. They are the ones who have spawned this gruesome terror all over the world They have violated Human Rights with impunity and basked in glory and wealth while we do the heavy lifting with our lives and treasure. Our youngsters have lost everything leaving them destitute while their royalty and people enjoy a gilded life. Why are we supporting a people with archaic, brutal and barbaric laws? Why are we shackling Iran while Saudi Arabia bombards a sovereign country - Yemen? Iran seems to be getting the short end of the stick every time. Given a choice between Saudi Arabia and Iran, which country would you rather be? The answer is obvious yet we call Iran the rogue State in the same breath as North Korea. More fitting would be Saudi Arabia and Russia. But yet... So let's cut our losses. Free Iran and let the players in the region play. Nobody, and I mean has been our ally and friend in a very long time.
68
President Obama is doing the indefensible. He is enabling Iran to become not the possessor of a few nuclear bombs but a whole nuclear industry.
He is also going to fund a revived Iranian- Syrian- Hizbollah offense throughout the Middle East.
How can Cohen not see this? How can he believe that some paper agreement will 'fence' Iran who has consistently lied about its nuclear program for the past fifteen years.
I understand completely the Arab world's outrage at this betrayal.
Their former ally is empowering their worst enemy.
He is also going to fund a revived Iranian- Syrian- Hizbollah offense throughout the Middle East.
How can Cohen not see this? How can he believe that some paper agreement will 'fence' Iran who has consistently lied about its nuclear program for the past fifteen years.
I understand completely the Arab world's outrage at this betrayal.
Their former ally is empowering their worst enemy.
19
How can Cohen not see this?? Well, Shalom, no one is more infatuated with Iran than Roger Cohen. Roger Cohen seriously believes that Iran can do no wrong.
2
Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear non-Proliferation treaty. They have the legal right to a nuclear industry. (But certainly not bombs.)
China, Russia, Germany, the UK, the US and France are jointly negotiating with Iran to attempt to build an agreement which will allow Iran to have a nuclear industry with a system to provide verification that they do not build bombs. If Israel decides that the resulting treaty is insufficient then Israel can take the actions Israel feels are appropriate.
I see the US, as one of the negotiators, looking after its own best interests. I have a hard time finding fault with the US for doing that.
China, Russia, Germany, the UK, the US and France are jointly negotiating with Iran to attempt to build an agreement which will allow Iran to have a nuclear industry with a system to provide verification that they do not build bombs. If Israel decides that the resulting treaty is insufficient then Israel can take the actions Israel feels are appropriate.
I see the US, as one of the negotiators, looking after its own best interests. I have a hard time finding fault with the US for doing that.
1
The short cut to fence Iran's nuclear potential is straightforward: a nuclear free Middle Eastern region. In the absence of this ideal solution, the next best thing would be stability brought about by the balance of terror, Cold War style.
I believe it is known that the quoted Einstein quip is one he didn't say, or at least didn't invent.
5
I would be curious to get Roger's opinion on Morocco's possible inclusion on the list of countries where Arabs can aspire to a better life. It is not perfect, but I have seen Moroccan-Americans and Frenchmen return to Morocco in search of opportunity.
2
Morocco has been claimed by the Saudis to support their invasion of Yemen. When in Morocco recently, I could find no Moroccan who supported it, and no evidence that Morocco as a state were participating. In fact, Cohen seems to have swallowed the Saudi/Israeli/American lie that Arabs are implacably opposed to Iran. The Shi'a of Lebanon, Palestinians, Alawites, Morroccans, Houthis and the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt are all Arabs and none of them are fans of the Saudis, whose "honor" is no concern of ours. Cut them off. If they do not abide by the NPT as Iran does, stop buying their oil. Iran (and Norway :) have plenty to sell.
Since all the Arab States have have to offer that the world cares about is their oil, and nothing else, is it any wonder they feel insecure and slighted by the least offense? Of course the Arabs can't really be faulted for this situation that was not directly their making, they just happened to be sitting on where all the oil ended up being, and as it ends up feeling like to them now, a curse.
Their embarrassment of riches without the requisite faculties and skills to go with them that can make those assets worthwhile, reminds be of the bazillionaire who plunked down all that cash for a Picasso the other day. The same bazillionaire that the next day people were laughing at for their shameless attempt to try and buy artistic savor faire not with any talent by merely with crass cold cash that just happened to fall in their laps.
Wanna bet that some Saudi oil-rich Sheik bought that painting?
Their embarrassment of riches without the requisite faculties and skills to go with them that can make those assets worthwhile, reminds be of the bazillionaire who plunked down all that cash for a Picasso the other day. The same bazillionaire that the next day people were laughing at for their shameless attempt to try and buy artistic savor faire not with any talent by merely with crass cold cash that just happened to fall in their laps.
Wanna bet that some Saudi oil-rich Sheik bought that painting?
7
I like your comments and I was reminded of the following quote by Mahatma Gandhi:
"Seven Deadly Sins
Wealth without work
Pleasure without conscience
Science without humanity
Knowledge without character
Politics without principle
Commerce without morality
Worship without sacrifice"
At the risk of over-generalization, some of the above may apply to some of the rich Sunni Arabs.
"Seven Deadly Sins
Wealth without work
Pleasure without conscience
Science without humanity
Knowledge without character
Politics without principle
Commerce without morality
Worship without sacrifice"
At the risk of over-generalization, some of the above may apply to some of the rich Sunni Arabs.
What Roger is really saying here is, this is just the complaining of Sunni despots in the midst of their final denouement. On the one hand, its kind of understandable. On the other, it serves them right. Their myopic view of the world and their role in it, over the past 80 years, is the cause of their current troubles.
10
I know, right? And who's to say they too aren't developing a nuclear(et al) program themselves?
1
Sanctions brought the Iranians to the table. Continued sanctions, combined with continued espionage to defeat nuclear progress, is the best hope for preventing Iran from going nuclear.
6
I say we sanction all the Mohammedan countries into starvation and oblivion. Why are they allowed to use Twitter and recruit from abroad? Why aren't we destroying their communications capabilities and transportation routes so that they cannot emigrate and pose a threat to the West?
"hegemony" in the arab world can only refer to the GCC, the oil-rich sunni monarchies, like the UAE itself.
it's a regional order that has been cemented by US military and economic support (despite human rights violations that we would never condone in other parts of the world), but it's also one that will only last as long the oil reserves do.
it's a regional order that has been cemented by US military and economic support (despite human rights violations that we would never condone in other parts of the world), but it's also one that will only last as long the oil reserves do.
3
Why is Iran mentioned in an article about Arabs? The Persians of Iran have a right to feel aggrieved.
11
Persians are Muslims too!
The Arab countries have talked about being humiliated by somebody or another for years, decades. Maybe they should look inward and ask why they have the least democratic, most autocratic region in the world. And also, why they treat their women so poorly. An Israeli-Arab woman has far more democratic rights than her Saudi counterpart. Maybe if they take care of their own people they can stop feeling so humiliated by others.
21
What a headline!
6
Roger Cohen is using his usual arguments to stand by Israel/Gulf States and denigrate Iran. Iran is a more open society and less repressive than its neighbours who cling to power by funding terrorism and brutally oppressing its citizens.
Amr Moussa is blaming Iran when the region’s trouble lies on its American dependency and the infighting between Shia and Sunni. Iran is assisting the Iraqis in clearing up the mess left by the Americans. Saudi Arabia is using Yemen as target practise against the Houthi and blaming Iran. Yemen’s problems are internal and go back decades.
The root of the problem is that the Gulf States and Israel do not want Iran to have nuclear capability but it's fine for Israel to have 200+ warheads. If life has taught us anything, having the bomb is in itself a deterrent. No sane country would launch nuclear warheads across the Straits of Hormuz without remembering Nevil Shute’s “On the Beach”.
Amr Moussa is blaming Iran when the region’s trouble lies on its American dependency and the infighting between Shia and Sunni. Iran is assisting the Iraqis in clearing up the mess left by the Americans. Saudi Arabia is using Yemen as target practise against the Houthi and blaming Iran. Yemen’s problems are internal and go back decades.
The root of the problem is that the Gulf States and Israel do not want Iran to have nuclear capability but it's fine for Israel to have 200+ warheads. If life has taught us anything, having the bomb is in itself a deterrent. No sane country would launch nuclear warheads across the Straits of Hormuz without remembering Nevil Shute’s “On the Beach”.
10
"Iran is a more open society and less repressive than its neighbours who cling to power by funding terrorism and brutally oppressing its citizens."
Tell this to the guys the Ayatollah is hanging from cranes every day. And to the inhabitants of the torture prisons he operates. And to the women and gays he oppresses. And to Lebanese, Palestinians and Israelis victimized and threatened by the Hezbollah and Hamas
gangsters he sponsors.
Tell this to the guys the Ayatollah is hanging from cranes every day. And to the inhabitants of the torture prisons he operates. And to the women and gays he oppresses. And to Lebanese, Palestinians and Israelis victimized and threatened by the Hezbollah and Hamas
gangsters he sponsors.
1
We Americans frequently point our fingers at the Saudi ruling family for relying on ultra-conservative religious groups to give them legitimacy. But the Republican party has pursued a very similar strategy in the US, and look at Likud's embrace of ultra-conservative religious parties in Israel. Each of these countries is split by religious divides, which makes them very hard to govern. Often these also coincide with racial and economic divides as well. All three countries face tremendous challenges in overcoming these divisions. Perhaps we in the US should devote more of our energy and attention to bridging and resolving our own religious/racial/economic divides before we meddle in those of other countries and regions.
11
Oh yes, indeed. The Republicans regularly cut off hands, decapitate, jail women drivers, and prevent meetings of anyone they disagree with.
Meddling in Muslim countries is a bad idea, because western powers (Russia, Britain, etc.) never win, not because Republicans make America hard to govern. Unless you believe in the one-party system, you should want at least two strong parties, preferably more, so that all points of view can be argued and considered from the perspective of the public good.
Muslim countries who do not threaten the west (mighty few of them) are easier to deal with than countries like Iran, who regularly shout "death to America."
Meddling in Muslim countries is a bad idea, because western powers (Russia, Britain, etc.) never win, not because Republicans make America hard to govern. Unless you believe in the one-party system, you should want at least two strong parties, preferably more, so that all points of view can be argued and considered from the perspective of the public good.
Muslim countries who do not threaten the west (mighty few of them) are easier to deal with than countries like Iran, who regularly shout "death to America."
May 14, 2015
Anger is not productive especially for the world class Arab position in the world with its strong faith and its continuing advances in technology and economy. Anger is an excuse for impatience to resolve the nature for its sociological and political maturing for its populace - and just wasting energy of the annoying Persians or everyone that is a excuse for just developing the strategic plans to master the modernity in the era of its capital cities as showcases to the world and why love abounds for its place on the world stage. In fact Doctor Albert was part right as the mind will stay with its telemetry towards understanding however long it requires - he never gave up on his seeking the unified field cosmology and interesting that was just smart when our instincts say that there is more to the equations of matter
in form and substance albeit the spiral of the universe - what was awestruck was just going in circularity and never sure that the times is right for our humankind.
jja Manhattan, N. Y,
Anger is not productive especially for the world class Arab position in the world with its strong faith and its continuing advances in technology and economy. Anger is an excuse for impatience to resolve the nature for its sociological and political maturing for its populace - and just wasting energy of the annoying Persians or everyone that is a excuse for just developing the strategic plans to master the modernity in the era of its capital cities as showcases to the world and why love abounds for its place on the world stage. In fact Doctor Albert was part right as the mind will stay with its telemetry towards understanding however long it requires - he never gave up on his seeking the unified field cosmology and interesting that was just smart when our instincts say that there is more to the equations of matter
in form and substance albeit the spiral of the universe - what was awestruck was just going in circularity and never sure that the times is right for our humankind.
jja Manhattan, N. Y,
1
As always, Roger Cohen's column is a richly nuanced tapestry woven by a master writer. Yes, he appears to contradict himself at times; that's because there are contradictions in life – real life, not the abstracted depictions put forth by so many commenters.
President Obama also has his contradictions: condemned for not honoring his "red line' in Syria, but receiving no credit for getting the chemical weapons out without bombing. Criticized for weakness in the MIddle East by some; praised by others for his cool restraint in keeping us out of another ground war.
Of course, the Arabs face the ultimate contradiction: a once great culture that gave us medicine, arts and Arabic numerals, in decline and eclipsed by the West, Israel and now Iran. It is human nature to take out anger and frustration on others, to find scapegoats as an outlet for anger that has turned inward. No doubt, as many have written, both history and vast oil wealth have conspired to choke off the aspirations of many Arabs today. The Arab Spring should be seen as the beginning of a multi-generational process that will bring change, but slowly, one step backward for every two forward.
President Obama also has his contradictions: condemned for not honoring his "red line' in Syria, but receiving no credit for getting the chemical weapons out without bombing. Criticized for weakness in the MIddle East by some; praised by others for his cool restraint in keeping us out of another ground war.
Of course, the Arabs face the ultimate contradiction: a once great culture that gave us medicine, arts and Arabic numerals, in decline and eclipsed by the West, Israel and now Iran. It is human nature to take out anger and frustration on others, to find scapegoats as an outlet for anger that has turned inward. No doubt, as many have written, both history and vast oil wealth have conspired to choke off the aspirations of many Arabs today. The Arab Spring should be seen as the beginning of a multi-generational process that will bring change, but slowly, one step backward for every two forward.
30
You might want to look into the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire, Balfour declaration, and 13 years of US freedom bombing of various Arab and Muslim nations for reasons other than freedom, democracy, mom and apple pie.
As for the Arab spring - that was hijacked immediately by the United States in order to install compliant puppet regimes - in Libya, in Yemen, in Iraq, and the struggle to do so in Syria continues...
As for the Arab spring - that was hijacked immediately by the United States in order to install compliant puppet regimes - in Libya, in Yemen, in Iraq, and the struggle to do so in Syria continues...
6
The Greeks and the Irish gave us medicine many centuries before the Arabs made any contributions.
@That Oded Yinon Plan
Oh please. After decades of being castigated the world over for supporting murderous dictators to fill our gas tanks cheaply, now we're on the hook as 'immediate hijackers' of the Arab Spring?...to 'install puppet regimes'? I don't see any regime in Libya, and we certainly didn't countenance the Saudi/UAE overthrow of the Egyptian MB (in spite of the conspiracy theories to the contrary). We wisely declined to bomb Syria once they complied with our ultimatum to turn over their chemical weapons.
Perhaps you prefer to see bloodbaths in the streets over there? Where will you be then? Still sitting on the fence, denouncing American cold-heartedness in support of murderous oil sheiks, no doubt.
Oh please. After decades of being castigated the world over for supporting murderous dictators to fill our gas tanks cheaply, now we're on the hook as 'immediate hijackers' of the Arab Spring?...to 'install puppet regimes'? I don't see any regime in Libya, and we certainly didn't countenance the Saudi/UAE overthrow of the Egyptian MB (in spite of the conspiracy theories to the contrary). We wisely declined to bomb Syria once they complied with our ultimatum to turn over their chemical weapons.
Perhaps you prefer to see bloodbaths in the streets over there? Where will you be then? Still sitting on the fence, denouncing American cold-heartedness in support of murderous oil sheiks, no doubt.
1
Another fine column by Roger Cohen, who is at the top of his game with his myriad pieces analyzing Mideast affairs. But just one quick word about Amr Moussa. The man has trotted out a stunted foreign policy vision for decades. Let's go back and look at what he was saying during the most optimistic point in the Camp David era, before Rabin's murder, before the second intifadah. He was running around international forums warning of a "Pax Israeli" that would condemn the poor Arabs to runts. He couldn't see the beauty and wisdom of true peace. To Mousa, it was all about pride and one-upsmanship and Islam. The man is a throwback to a discredited era, circa Abdel Nasser. Truth be told, I think the US has more potential for fruitful relations with Iran than with Egypt, a land led by undereducated, bombastic pols who wouldn't know how to foster democracy or create jobs if their lives depended on it.
19
For the first time in nearly a hundred years, the leading Western power - US - is telling the Arabs that it will no longer accept the post-colonial arrangement of backward dictatorships in exchange for oil. They will have to come up with their own new landscape, be it a continuation of dictatorships or theocracies or even socialism. Our only continued commitment in this region will be for Israel's security and hence the need for the nuclear agreement with Iran.
It is to be hoped that any change in the US political scene with the 2016 elections and beyond does not result in the US wanting to go back to the Sykes-Picot order.
It is to be hoped that any change in the US political scene with the 2016 elections and beyond does not result in the US wanting to go back to the Sykes-Picot order.
17
Mr. Cohen:
Well said. Obama's sensible-though-difficult attempt to reach a rapprochement with Iran is unsettling to the Arab monarchies. They like things the way they are for the wrong reasons: they have done little to advance the cause of peace, economic opportunity, and democracy in the Middle East and much to retard it. And the Sunni-Shia schism has its economic-inequality dimensions, too.
Well said. Obama's sensible-though-difficult attempt to reach a rapprochement with Iran is unsettling to the Arab monarchies. They like things the way they are for the wrong reasons: they have done little to advance the cause of peace, economic opportunity, and democracy in the Middle East and much to retard it. And the Sunni-Shia schism has its economic-inequality dimensions, too.
23
Did Saudi Arabia really not see this day coming after they nurtured and funded the people who attacked us on 9/11? Did they really expect us to go out of our way to remain "friendly" with them while they encouraged our slaughter?
Do they take us for idiots?
Do they take us for idiots?
42
Wrong question: do they take us for patsies? And the answer is: of course! When have we shown any interest in backing away from oil at all costs?
3
Well, we kind of did that with Pakistan. And we've done idiotic things and continue to do so. So why not? But there's no sincerity. Headhunters try to recruit me for jobs in Dubai, etc. I'm tempted sometimes just a bit (hey, grant funding here is getting more and more difficult) but my wife says "no." If I wasn't married and didn't have two daughters...
"..Israel, a country with which many Arabs states have aligned but unsayable interests"
Having returned from another visit to Dubai - which continues to boom - the recurrent thought I have after each trip is how much contemporary Dubai and Israel have in common. Both understand the importance to a modern society that is globally connected of education, IT, trade, tourism, tolerance.
The buzz of Dubai in many ways is mirrored by the atmosphere one finds among young people in Tel Aviv.
Both societies have disquieting aspects to their political structures and government policies. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear from you in one of your forthcoming columns what it would take to connect the two.
Having returned from another visit to Dubai - which continues to boom - the recurrent thought I have after each trip is how much contemporary Dubai and Israel have in common. Both understand the importance to a modern society that is globally connected of education, IT, trade, tourism, tolerance.
The buzz of Dubai in many ways is mirrored by the atmosphere one finds among young people in Tel Aviv.
Both societies have disquieting aspects to their political structures and government policies. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to hear from you in one of your forthcoming columns what it would take to connect the two.
8
yes, they have a lot in common. Both are crypto-theocracies with questionable separation of church and state. However, Israel is obviously more democratic in a Western sense than Dubai.
1
It's also insane to keep repeating the mantra that Israel needs to "recognize" the (as yet non-existent) "state" of Palestine in order to make peace. Note the reverse isn't demanded, nor that the Palestinians (the majority) wish to negotiate any longer. That's ok (and insane); they can talk to the Americans about making peace. The PA, "moderates" of course, wish to obtain unilateral borders, unilateral water rights, kick out any vestige of Jews and Jewish history from the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem, and still demand the "right" (it doesn't exist under any legal system) of full return to Israel proper. Without giving anything in return to Israel. So, who's insane?
13
"Statements from Tehran about Iran calling the shots in several Arab capitals — including Damascus, Baghdad and Sana — had 'enraged many of us,' he said, leaving Arabs humiliated that any power 'would dare say that.' "
The Arabs, meaning Saudi Arabia and other rich oil-producing Sunni states (excluding Oman), have become increasingly angry, not just about Iran's gaining influence and power, but how the U.S. actually caused this, and how it led to the creation of ISIS. All this was started by the 'neo-conservatives', and former president G.W. Bush.
The terrible way Iraq had been treated, fact it could have been led from its somewhat unkind government under Saddam Hussein, into a 'family of nations', was a distinct foreign policy failure. They shouldn't have bombed Baghdad in Dec. 1998, and Israel shouldn't have aggravated things by attacking Iraq's reactor at Osirik earlier.
Saudi Arabia has had a friend in the U.S., and too much so. This led to problems with Osama bin Laden, and then al Qaeda, who didn't like military cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.
The U.S. has been trying to appease both sides, and has been ruining entire nations in the process. As bad and unnecessary as it had been to almost wipe Iraq off the map, causing thousands more to die than any 'sadist' dictator, could do, ...
the U.S. has proved to be ten times worse, in allowing the war to continue in Syria ... Syria's being sacrificed in the name of 'democracy'!
The war must end now.
The Arabs, meaning Saudi Arabia and other rich oil-producing Sunni states (excluding Oman), have become increasingly angry, not just about Iran's gaining influence and power, but how the U.S. actually caused this, and how it led to the creation of ISIS. All this was started by the 'neo-conservatives', and former president G.W. Bush.
The terrible way Iraq had been treated, fact it could have been led from its somewhat unkind government under Saddam Hussein, into a 'family of nations', was a distinct foreign policy failure. They shouldn't have bombed Baghdad in Dec. 1998, and Israel shouldn't have aggravated things by attacking Iraq's reactor at Osirik earlier.
Saudi Arabia has had a friend in the U.S., and too much so. This led to problems with Osama bin Laden, and then al Qaeda, who didn't like military cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.
The U.S. has been trying to appease both sides, and has been ruining entire nations in the process. As bad and unnecessary as it had been to almost wipe Iraq off the map, causing thousands more to die than any 'sadist' dictator, could do, ...
the U.S. has proved to be ten times worse, in allowing the war to continue in Syria ... Syria's being sacrificed in the name of 'democracy'!
The war must end now.
2
The angry Arab moment could be turned into normal times once the P5 1 initiated nuclear deal with Iran is concluded and the latter joins the international mainstream. For, it's not the US alone behind the Iran nuclear deal rather all the major world powers pushing it to logical end, nor again it's the US that has betrayed the Arab allies but it is the other way round that is the reality. Isn't it the Saudi Arabia that is the main promoter and financier of the main Islamist terror outfits around the world?
29
Iran's line in the sand is Iraq and Syria. Both those countries serve as buffers between Iran and the Sunni Middle East, so having stable and dependable Shia-led governments in each serves as a strategic objective that is non-negotiable for Iran.
For Saudi Arabia, what happens south of their border is a matter of grave national security, particularly now that the future of Yemen is in question.
They cannot allow instability there to give Iran a solid foothold on the peninsula. Saudi Arabia ca obtain nuclear weapons immediately from Pakistan. The question now is, will the Saudis make their stand in Yemen or blink?
For Saudi Arabia, what happens south of their border is a matter of grave national security, particularly now that the future of Yemen is in question.
They cannot allow instability there to give Iran a solid foothold on the peninsula. Saudi Arabia ca obtain nuclear weapons immediately from Pakistan. The question now is, will the Saudis make their stand in Yemen or blink?
1
What I believe the Arab states want is for the US to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities to smithereens. A couple of years ago Obama said a nuclear armed Iran was unacceptable, no option were off the table, and "I don't bluff". (Look it up.)
He is walking this back like he did the red line in Syria. If the Arabs regard him as unreliable he certainly is. I do too.
Bombing Iran would have costs. Not bombing will probably mean a nuclear armed Iran down the road. This president looks for the easy way out. Maybe there isn't one.
He is walking this back like he did the red line in Syria. If the Arabs regard him as unreliable he certainly is. I do too.
Bombing Iran would have costs. Not bombing will probably mean a nuclear armed Iran down the road. This president looks for the easy way out. Maybe there isn't one.
5
"If the Arabs regard him as unreliable he certainly is. I do too."
Oh really? So in other words, pride (in the 'red line') trumps sanity (avoiding war, perhaps nuclear war)? Good to know. Though that should be the LAST thing anyone wants to see in a leader, for its an invitatin to disaster.
"Humilitus occideit superbium" (Humility conquers Pride)
Oh really? So in other words, pride (in the 'red line') trumps sanity (avoiding war, perhaps nuclear war)? Good to know. Though that should be the LAST thing anyone wants to see in a leader, for its an invitatin to disaster.
"Humilitus occideit superbium" (Humility conquers Pride)
Bombing Iran would have the added benefit to the Saudis of once again strengthening their ability to distract their own people from their frustrations with oppression at the hands of the Saudi royal family, as well as temporarily releasing the regime from the meager pressure to reform that it receives from the West.
Keep all likely costs in mind. That is what George H.W. Bush did when he stopped our troops at the Kuwaiti border in the First Iraq War. That is what we failed to do in public debate in the run-up to our 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Keep all likely costs in mind. That is what George H.W. Bush did when he stopped our troops at the Kuwaiti border in the First Iraq War. That is what we failed to do in public debate in the run-up to our 2003 invasion of Iraq.
His easy way out is his Presidency is almost over.
1
There are a few mistakes in the article and Mr. Cohen should know better. First, the title states "angry Arab Moment." It conveys that he is talking about the people. He did not mention the latter but focused on the totalitarian Arab regimes. These do not represent the people. They are in power because Washington and London force them on the people. Second, the Arabs are 'laughingstock" because these totalitarian regimes suppress their own people. Third, seeking cooperation with these regimes to fight terrorism is at least a jock. You do not expect the regimes that plan, organize and finance terrorism to fight terrorism.
It is tragedy that the person who we elected as a liberal is allied with the most oppressive regimes on earth.
It is tragedy that the person who we elected as a liberal is allied with the most oppressive regimes on earth.
6
In looking for the lesser evil, the world was better off with Mubarak, Saddam and Qaddaffi; as were the residents of their countries, and probably Assad compared with what will follow. We live in a world as insane as the 1930s.
As for NATO, it was a mistake expanding into former Soviet republics.
As for NATO, it was a mistake expanding into former Soviet republics.
Arabs' wisdom dwells in their legs instead of their heads. Their pride is hollow. If America can humble Iran to negotiate despite having differences for decades, why Arabs cannot pursue a path of negotiations instead of confrontations.
20
Here we have the former secretary general of the Arab League bemoaning humiliation at the hands of others. And there we have a succinct expression of the Arab ideology: at all costs avoid humiliation. Wage wars for honor. Kill people for honor. Terrorize for honor. Oppress for honor. It seems that their entire ideology is built a failed sense of purpose that requires vast amounts of adulation. Am I the only one who sees something immensely disturbed about this? How can their be a shared language with people who need so much kissing up?
40
With regard to energy transportation, Iran is the new Suez Canal--a piece of geography that must be kept working.
Iran is a large land space sitting strategically on the crossroads of the major energy transportation networks of the 21st century. This gives Iran strategic leverage, but it also ensures that the world's largest powers have a strategic interest in Iran. Iran's power and its prosperity evaporate if its energy does not flow. If most of the world's major powers conclude that nuclear weapons in Iran would lead to dangerous instability and higher risks in the Middle East, then these powers will have a long-term interest in keeping Iran non-nuclear.
In particular, if the Far East economies are hooked up via trans-Asian pipelines to Middle East energy crossing Iran, these countries would risk depression if widespread hostilities broke out in the Middle East. And any use of nuclear weapons would do precisely that as Japan's earthquake-caused nuclear accident several years ago proved.
Iran is a large land space sitting strategically on the crossroads of the major energy transportation networks of the 21st century. This gives Iran strategic leverage, but it also ensures that the world's largest powers have a strategic interest in Iran. Iran's power and its prosperity evaporate if its energy does not flow. If most of the world's major powers conclude that nuclear weapons in Iran would lead to dangerous instability and higher risks in the Middle East, then these powers will have a long-term interest in keeping Iran non-nuclear.
In particular, if the Far East economies are hooked up via trans-Asian pipelines to Middle East energy crossing Iran, these countries would risk depression if widespread hostilities broke out in the Middle East. And any use of nuclear weapons would do precisely that as Japan's earthquake-caused nuclear accident several years ago proved.
3
The feeling of Arab humiliation drives pretty much everything the Arabs do, and perpetuates the many conflicts. The humiliation the Arabs feel for their battle losses to Israel are the root of their intransigence. The Palestinians are the manifestation of the Arabs' impotence, which is why they must live in refugee camps for 67 years, giving them citizenship and moving on would mean accepting defeat/humiliation.
The Palestinians call their losses in the Arabs' failed wars against Israel in 1948 & 67 the "Nakba" or "catastrophe', as if it were an earthquake and they were passive, innocent victims. It wasn't a catastrophe, it was a humiliating defeat. They refuse to admit their defeat, though deep down they know they lost. This is why the Palestinians keep turning down peace offers (1937, 1948, 2000, 2008, 2014), accepting a state given to them at the peace table would be accepting a pity gift from the hated west, whose success humiliates the Arabs on a daily basis.
Now the Iranians are humiliating the Arabs, and the Arabs come running to the US looking for sympathy. Anything to avoid fixing their own dysfunctional societies.
The Palestinians call their losses in the Arabs' failed wars against Israel in 1948 & 67 the "Nakba" or "catastrophe', as if it were an earthquake and they were passive, innocent victims. It wasn't a catastrophe, it was a humiliating defeat. They refuse to admit their defeat, though deep down they know they lost. This is why the Palestinians keep turning down peace offers (1937, 1948, 2000, 2008, 2014), accepting a state given to them at the peace table would be accepting a pity gift from the hated west, whose success humiliates the Arabs on a daily basis.
Now the Iranians are humiliating the Arabs, and the Arabs come running to the US looking for sympathy. Anything to avoid fixing their own dysfunctional societies.
93
I think you forget how hard such national self-knowledge is. Few Americans would say we "lost" Vietnam and Iraq, but we did.
1
I wouldn't call the displacement of 700,000+ without the right of return a defeat, it was a catastrophe.
3
They need therapy.
So is this a regional war between Shiite and Sunni, or is this a regional war between Arab and Persian peoples? Non Arabs (i.e., Persians) are just as proud of their separate and distinct culture as Arabs are of theirs. I'd be willing to bet that most Americans think that Iranians are Arab. I am also concerned that our government hasn't a clue as just how different these two peoples are from each other, and of the horribly bloody history between Arabs and Persians that goes along with centuries of hatred and distrust. Why do we want to get in the middle of this hornets' nest?
9
I am trying to remember when the Arabs were not angry at something or other. I must admit I do not like to use a collective name for all, but whenever any Arab country has any setback , they find a way to blame some other entity for the reason other than themselves.
71
Before Zionism, under the Ottomans, when Jews, Christians and Muslims lived in peace in Palestine?
6
then was then and now is now, that's the point that kushelvich was trying to make. And I agree, and I think many Americans do. Somehow the Arab world must join the modern world. Sadly with the growing conservatism of the Islamic faith, the Arab world is moving backwards, certainly to a time before what you characterize as a time of peace.
Iran is like Norway compared to most Arab States!
And only in The middle east could a country with a Supreme Leader and Morals Police and an Army of fire breathing Islamists be awarded that relative comparison.
We kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait and freed the Shia from Saddam and the Shia still hate us!
God help the poor Israelis trying to survive among all these emotional defectives!
And only in The middle east could a country with a Supreme Leader and Morals Police and an Army of fire breathing Islamists be awarded that relative comparison.
We kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait and freed the Shia from Saddam and the Shia still hate us!
God help the poor Israelis trying to survive among all these emotional defectives!
49
The Saudis say they will match whatever nuclear aspirations the Iranians have with regard to nuclear weapons. Does anyone believe that what they are saying is that they too will get nuclear weapons once the Iranians have them? Does anyone believe that within the next few years, the Middle-East adversaries will be armed with nuclear weapons ready to launch at that the least provocation? Once again, the naive, pacifist viewpoint of Cohen/Obama point lacks gravitas. "Walk and chew gum," yeah sure.
10
Absent a course correction, Iran will continue its march toward developing a nuclear weapon. That is what is motivating the United States AND OTHERS to pursue a policy of engagement.
Blasto - you seem to agree that a nuclear armed Iran is something of great potential harm for the region and the world. If the diplomatic solution of leading western powers seems "naive" to you, dare I ask what alternative(s) you have in mind? It's a question fraught with great peril - and one that motivates administrations in America and Europe and the Middle East to seek practical solutions that don't involve bombs - either nuclear or conventional.
While not arguing that diplomacy will yield perfect solutions, let's not indict diplomatic efforts to save the world from a nuclear armed Iran in this decade. Civilized nations have a daunting task to alter the current projected path to another one, pointed away from nuclear proliferation.
Blasto - you seem to agree that a nuclear armed Iran is something of great potential harm for the region and the world. If the diplomatic solution of leading western powers seems "naive" to you, dare I ask what alternative(s) you have in mind? It's a question fraught with great peril - and one that motivates administrations in America and Europe and the Middle East to seek practical solutions that don't involve bombs - either nuclear or conventional.
While not arguing that diplomacy will yield perfect solutions, let's not indict diplomatic efforts to save the world from a nuclear armed Iran in this decade. Civilized nations have a daunting task to alter the current projected path to another one, pointed away from nuclear proliferation.
To echo Mr. Cohen, while the nuclear agreement with Iran is not without some risk, what is your alternative? As was stated factually, Iran has made great progress in developing nuclear weapons outside of this agreement. Do you see how our best chance is to try to oversee that? The Saudis and US and Israel were not able to stop that. Do you see that going back to that with no agreement will result in an unmonitored Iran?
How will an agreement that says Iran can have nuclear weapons in ten years, or sooner if it gives one year's notice, or if it cheats, improve matters?
One thing that the Arabs understand much better than our own leaders is power politics, because the stakes are bigger where they live. Defeated American politicians get rich peddling influence. Defeated Arab leaders...don't ask, it's ugly. The Saudis and GCC are Iran's neighbors, and much more clearheaded about what power really means. If we won't listen to Netanyahu, we should listen to Salman. When those two agree on anything, it means something.
One thing that the Arabs understand much better than our own leaders is power politics, because the stakes are bigger where they live. Defeated American politicians get rich peddling influence. Defeated Arab leaders...don't ask, it's ugly. The Saudis and GCC are Iran's neighbors, and much more clearheaded about what power really means. If we won't listen to Netanyahu, we should listen to Salman. When those two agree on anything, it means something.
2
Since so many of the Shia are in fact Arab, the notion of sectional warfare seems more resonant than Arab vs Persian perspective...
An uninformed reader may be forgiven for believing this is an established fact:
"...Obama’s abandoned “red line” against the Iran-backed Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons..."
To his credit (relatively, at least), the Times' Peter Baker, in another article on Syria published today, doesn't actually say that Assad's troops used chemical weapons (which, by the way, has never been established, and it seems to this close observer that fingers point more toward the rebels on that). Baker instead just mentions an indisputable chronological sequence:
1. Chemical weapons were used (by someone) in Damascus.
2. Obama thereupon threatened to bomb Assad.
The reader of Baker's piece is likely to conclude, of course, that #1 and #2 are causally related. But Baker doesn't actually say that Assad's side used the CWs (and, again, it seems to me the rebels more likely were guilty -- the inspectors' report is available online, and so interested readers can make their own judgment).
Cohen, unlike Baker, just comes right out and says Assad's side has used chemical weapons. One might naturally ask: What evidence do you have for that? Does that "evidence" really point to Assad's side, or does it point just as much (or more) toward the rebels?
Cohen will not answer such questions. With the passage of time, unanswered questions may be given answers that favor the journalist's point of view -- no evidence necessary. Speculation becomes fact.
"...Obama’s abandoned “red line” against the Iran-backed Assad regime’s use of chemical weapons..."
To his credit (relatively, at least), the Times' Peter Baker, in another article on Syria published today, doesn't actually say that Assad's troops used chemical weapons (which, by the way, has never been established, and it seems to this close observer that fingers point more toward the rebels on that). Baker instead just mentions an indisputable chronological sequence:
1. Chemical weapons were used (by someone) in Damascus.
2. Obama thereupon threatened to bomb Assad.
The reader of Baker's piece is likely to conclude, of course, that #1 and #2 are causally related. But Baker doesn't actually say that Assad's side used the CWs (and, again, it seems to me the rebels more likely were guilty -- the inspectors' report is available online, and so interested readers can make their own judgment).
Cohen, unlike Baker, just comes right out and says Assad's side has used chemical weapons. One might naturally ask: What evidence do you have for that? Does that "evidence" really point to Assad's side, or does it point just as much (or more) toward the rebels?
Cohen will not answer such questions. With the passage of time, unanswered questions may be given answers that favor the journalist's point of view -- no evidence necessary. Speculation becomes fact.
2
One would point to the delivery system of the chemical weapons being jets and helicopters, things that the rebels don't have. It's a lot easier to just admit you want to keep a dictator who gassed his own people than try to twist the facts.
The nuclear agreement with Iran is a joke. Recall the guarantees given to the Ukraine for it to give up its nuclear weapons. Not worth the paper it is written on.
The only JV's around are the present occupant of the WH and his advisors.
The only JV's around are the present occupant of the WH and his advisors.
3
In the best case, Obama is going to leave the Mideast a shambles, in the worst case we'll have nuclear armeggedon.
He's already released billions to Iran just to get them to the table and will be releasing hundreds of billions more. This money is directly channeled into arms and terrorism in the region thru Iranian proxies in Yemen, Syria, etc. Iran is also flexing its muscles in the crucial waterways of the region.
In today's paper the Saudis state that they will be right behind Iran in procurement of nukes. If Iran is allowed to enrich, the Saudis will be purchasing nukes from their ally - destitute, nuclear Pakistan. Obama has stated that nuclear Pakistan keeps him up nights. Do we need nuclear Iran and nuclear Saudi Arabia too?
The choice isn't "war" or capitulation to Iran nuclear ambitions. Israel removed nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq in clean strikes. There was no war and no retaliation. If we left Iran alone, they would go broke because oil prices are plummeting. America needs the will to remove existential threats to itself and the world.
He's already released billions to Iran just to get them to the table and will be releasing hundreds of billions more. This money is directly channeled into arms and terrorism in the region thru Iranian proxies in Yemen, Syria, etc. Iran is also flexing its muscles in the crucial waterways of the region.
In today's paper the Saudis state that they will be right behind Iran in procurement of nukes. If Iran is allowed to enrich, the Saudis will be purchasing nukes from their ally - destitute, nuclear Pakistan. Obama has stated that nuclear Pakistan keeps him up nights. Do we need nuclear Iran and nuclear Saudi Arabia too?
The choice isn't "war" or capitulation to Iran nuclear ambitions. Israel removed nuclear facilities in Syria and Iraq in clean strikes. There was no war and no retaliation. If we left Iran alone, they would go broke because oil prices are plummeting. America needs the will to remove existential threats to itself and the world.
3
You think the Houthis, being bombed by the Saudis and Israel, are th ebad guys?
How can you possibly have arrived at that conclusion unless you think anyone that resists the US or its puppet clients is automatically therefore a "terrorist."
How can you possibly have arrived at that conclusion unless you think anyone that resists the US or its puppet clients is automatically therefore a "terrorist."
Roger,
THE whole argument concerning Arabs and Arabism is "Absolutely Absurd" as the Wahhabi House Of Saud equates speaking Arabic as being Ethnic Arab as that proposition by itself is a "Racist Stand".
PEOPLE like Amr Moussa, El-Sisi and the ALL Leaders of so called "Arab States" are on the "Wahhabi/Saudi Payroll" and "Pretend They Are Arabs".
ARABS were Colonialists that Destroyed Vast Cultures, Languages and Civilizations from Arabia itself to Morocco 1500 years ago and that their Neo-colonial Dream was resurrected by the defeat of Ottoman empire in 1915.
AS for Iran running Lebanon, Syria, Iraq or Yemen, where is the Islamic Republic of Syria or Lebanon or Iraq for that matter as Mr. Assad is a Secular politician and no one has ever seen his Wife Wearing a Scarf!
FURTHERMORE, the Mayhem and Destruction caused in Iraq, Syria, Libya and now in Yemen is sponsored by the House of Saud and their Cousins in the Persian Gulf Sheikdoms via Al-Qaida and ISIS with Iran supporting moderate forces battling extremists created and funded by the same Wahhabis.
IT is time for the US end the 1945 Faustian Pact with the House of Saud and Demand Fundamental Reforms, Political and Human Rights et al, as a Price for ANY Support.
THE whole argument concerning Arabs and Arabism is "Absolutely Absurd" as the Wahhabi House Of Saud equates speaking Arabic as being Ethnic Arab as that proposition by itself is a "Racist Stand".
PEOPLE like Amr Moussa, El-Sisi and the ALL Leaders of so called "Arab States" are on the "Wahhabi/Saudi Payroll" and "Pretend They Are Arabs".
ARABS were Colonialists that Destroyed Vast Cultures, Languages and Civilizations from Arabia itself to Morocco 1500 years ago and that their Neo-colonial Dream was resurrected by the defeat of Ottoman empire in 1915.
AS for Iran running Lebanon, Syria, Iraq or Yemen, where is the Islamic Republic of Syria or Lebanon or Iraq for that matter as Mr. Assad is a Secular politician and no one has ever seen his Wife Wearing a Scarf!
FURTHERMORE, the Mayhem and Destruction caused in Iraq, Syria, Libya and now in Yemen is sponsored by the House of Saud and their Cousins in the Persian Gulf Sheikdoms via Al-Qaida and ISIS with Iran supporting moderate forces battling extremists created and funded by the same Wahhabis.
IT is time for the US end the 1945 Faustian Pact with the House of Saud and Demand Fundamental Reforms, Political and Human Rights et al, as a Price for ANY Support.
4
The Sunni Shia and the Arab Persian competition has roots that go far earlier than European/ American involvement and even before Ottoman domination. It has not always been a hot confrontation through history. Post a nuclear deal the US and Europe would be well served to try to develop a détente between the factions. It won't be easy particularly with the mixed populations of Sunni and Shia, but the potential benefit to both would be huge. none of these regimes are anything we would want but peace would be a start.
1
The anger of Amr Moussa, the former secretary general of the Arab League, described by Roger Cohen, is that of the authoritarian regimes of the Arab world. It is driven by fear.
These regimes have long feared democracy, and feared their own people who yearn for it.
This fear is behind the anger directed by these authoritarian regimes against Turkey and Iran which Roger Cohen also describes, and has driven these regimes to ally themselves with Israel, which itself shares the same fear of the peoples of the Arab World, and of any form of democracy that may empower them.
What Roger Cohen does not describe, however, is the anger of the masses of the Arab World. That more dangerous anger is not driven by fear, but by repression, poverty and injustice. It is the type that breeds revolutions and violence.
For years, our leaders have unwisely, but consistently protected repressive Arab regimes against their peoples, but President Obama has now invited these repressive regimes to Camp David.
What should he tell them?
Perhaps he should warn them, in our name, that, morally and practically, the US cannot continue ignoring their repression of their peoples.
He should also advise them that the nuclear negotiations with Iran are due to an irreversible, new US policy of resolving Middle East conflicts trough negotiations, and that the US will not be plunged in any more Middle East wars on their behalf.
These regimes have long feared democracy, and feared their own people who yearn for it.
This fear is behind the anger directed by these authoritarian regimes against Turkey and Iran which Roger Cohen also describes, and has driven these regimes to ally themselves with Israel, which itself shares the same fear of the peoples of the Arab World, and of any form of democracy that may empower them.
What Roger Cohen does not describe, however, is the anger of the masses of the Arab World. That more dangerous anger is not driven by fear, but by repression, poverty and injustice. It is the type that breeds revolutions and violence.
For years, our leaders have unwisely, but consistently protected repressive Arab regimes against their peoples, but President Obama has now invited these repressive regimes to Camp David.
What should he tell them?
Perhaps he should warn them, in our name, that, morally and practically, the US cannot continue ignoring their repression of their peoples.
He should also advise them that the nuclear negotiations with Iran are due to an irreversible, new US policy of resolving Middle East conflicts trough negotiations, and that the US will not be plunged in any more Middle East wars on their behalf.
21
Mr. Cohen,
You have nailed this one right on the head.
The humiliation the Arab states are experiencing is as much brought on by their own corruption and repressiveness as it is by external forces. Continuing to suppress progress and preach hatred against any random "other" will cost their nations everything. The world is changing and they need move into that new world. Their kids are already there.
And you are spot on about President Obama and Iran. We, the People have to support the idea that we can walk and chew gum at the same time, and get behind the idea that Iran walking away is far more dangerous than keeping them engaged in the conversation.
The soon the Arab monarchies and theocracies figure out there's no going back to the 18th century, much less the 8th century, the better off they, their people, and the rest of the globe is gonna be.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
You have nailed this one right on the head.
The humiliation the Arab states are experiencing is as much brought on by their own corruption and repressiveness as it is by external forces. Continuing to suppress progress and preach hatred against any random "other" will cost their nations everything. The world is changing and they need move into that new world. Their kids are already there.
And you are spot on about President Obama and Iran. We, the People have to support the idea that we can walk and chew gum at the same time, and get behind the idea that Iran walking away is far more dangerous than keeping them engaged in the conversation.
The soon the Arab monarchies and theocracies figure out there's no going back to the 18th century, much less the 8th century, the better off they, their people, and the rest of the globe is gonna be.
http://wifelyperson.blogspot.com/
12
A core of fundamentalists is that they are all about the "other." That's true in the Arab world. It is sadly true here as well, with the Christian right wing's obsession with poor people, gays, black, hispanics etc. That's the MO of fundamentalists. And if we are not careful, they will destroy our way of life as they already have done in the mid-east.
I know the Saudis and the rest of the Arab world are very against Iran getting a nuclear bomb.
Why then would they be upset with this deal with Iran that would accomplish this? I would have reasoned that the Arab countries would be happy with this deal since it prevents Iran from having nuclear weapons. Again, the Middle East mentality fails to make sense to me. I guess they'd be happier if we bombed Tehran out of existence and that would eliminate their enemy once and for all. Crazy.
Why then would they be upset with this deal with Iran that would accomplish this? I would have reasoned that the Arab countries would be happy with this deal since it prevents Iran from having nuclear weapons. Again, the Middle East mentality fails to make sense to me. I guess they'd be happier if we bombed Tehran out of existence and that would eliminate their enemy once and for all. Crazy.
5
The reason the Saudis, Egyptians, Israelis and almost everybody in the Middle-East are against the Obama deal with the Ayatollah terrorists is because they know the deal ENHANCES the chances of Iran getting nuclear bombs (- just the opposite to Obama's dreams)
1
The US bombing Iran and their nuclear facilities is exactly what the arabs want. And if we elect or SCOTUS appoints a GOP president in 2016, they may get their wish. Just look at who is advising Bush; listen to Marco talking to Charlie Rose. That's what the Arabs want and if there is a chance to do so, GOP leadership will.
Or.... both Israel and Saudi Arabian view Iranian oil and gas and nuclear technology as an *economic* threat - and have successfully propagandized you and many others into thinking it is all about non-existent nukes, or support for Lebanese resistance to Israeli occupation, or Houthi resistance to the US/Saudi puppet government that was very happy to kill oppress them.
It's not "insanity" which is causing certain Arab leaders to expect different results despite the fact that they are "doing the same thing over and over again." It's human nature.
When confronted with change which may challenge the status quo (a/k/a/ a threat), the deeply embedded human instinct is to annihilate, or at least soundly thrash and isolate, that threat (see, e.g., our "wars" on Iraq, Ebola, ISIS, Guatemalan children ....) This is especially true when the alternative is to do something which, again, we humans are instinctively designed NOT to do -- i.e., make a sacrifice and/or take a risk.
So even though a coolly calculated assessment should convince one to make that sacrifice or take that risk, to believe that we humans are cool calculators is to ... well, ignore all of human history not to mention evolutionary biology and its current best explanation of what 'makes us tick.'
When confronted with change which may challenge the status quo (a/k/a/ a threat), the deeply embedded human instinct is to annihilate, or at least soundly thrash and isolate, that threat (see, e.g., our "wars" on Iraq, Ebola, ISIS, Guatemalan children ....) This is especially true when the alternative is to do something which, again, we humans are instinctively designed NOT to do -- i.e., make a sacrifice and/or take a risk.
So even though a coolly calculated assessment should convince one to make that sacrifice or take that risk, to believe that we humans are cool calculators is to ... well, ignore all of human history not to mention evolutionary biology and its current best explanation of what 'makes us tick.'
5
Arab leaders are disappointed and humiliated because they realize it very well that when money can buy them many things, it can't buy them respect. They know world actually loves their money not them. That's why they are deeply disappointed. They crave respect and are willing to earn it, no matter how. Invading Yemen shows their frustration and despair very well, it's not about Iran, it's about them feeling confident, in charge and powerful, they want to look in the mirror with pride so bad they can't see that they are going to actually break it into pieces beyond repair. One should take psychological factors into consideration while writing, talking, studying about ME. They are very important.
9
I eagerly await Mr. Cohen's appraisal of how Arab humiliation is truly at the heart of most Arab states' hatred of Israel.
13
There two obvious points. If the Arabs feel humiliated they have only themselves to blame. Other than oil what do they have that anyone else in the world wants?
As for Israel the Saudis, the Egyptians and many of the Gulf States are in de-facto alliance with Israel when it comes to Iran, Syria and the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah.
As for Israel the Saudis, the Egyptians and many of the Gulf States are in de-facto alliance with Israel when it comes to Iran, Syria and the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah.
14
"Third, there is the hard-line, expansive Iran of Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, and the reformist Iran bent on renewed ties with the West of President Hassan Rouhani."
Or there is actually one power- The hardline Ayatollahs and the thin facade of moderation they have created for their own purposes. So thin that it would crack under the slightest scrutiny, if not for the fact that there no scrutiny- only a concerted effort by Obama and Co. to maintain the illusion.
This quest for the illusive "Obama the great progressive who began the great pivot of bringing America one step closer to the Arabs and two steps further from Israel," photo op, uber ales, defies easy rationalization. He pursues this agenda with an obsession and focus that defies any explanation other than that there is some deeper motivator than what appears on the surface. Willing to risk the remainder of his power and legacy on this one accomplishment.
The Ayatollahs have smelled out in that obsession something familiar that lurks deep beneath the surface. However infinitely patient it's implementation. However carefully hidden in a hundred "win-win" layers of deniability it's rationalization. The clever extra-step of protection from Iran's "We don't hate Jews- we hate Israel," to Barak's, "I don't hate Israel- I hate Bibi." Somehow, someway, surprisingly, inevitably it meanders towards a kindred tacit ineffable goal that they understand very well.
Or there is actually one power- The hardline Ayatollahs and the thin facade of moderation they have created for their own purposes. So thin that it would crack under the slightest scrutiny, if not for the fact that there no scrutiny- only a concerted effort by Obama and Co. to maintain the illusion.
This quest for the illusive "Obama the great progressive who began the great pivot of bringing America one step closer to the Arabs and two steps further from Israel," photo op, uber ales, defies easy rationalization. He pursues this agenda with an obsession and focus that defies any explanation other than that there is some deeper motivator than what appears on the surface. Willing to risk the remainder of his power and legacy on this one accomplishment.
The Ayatollahs have smelled out in that obsession something familiar that lurks deep beneath the surface. However infinitely patient it's implementation. However carefully hidden in a hundred "win-win" layers of deniability it's rationalization. The clever extra-step of protection from Iran's "We don't hate Jews- we hate Israel," to Barak's, "I don't hate Israel- I hate Bibi." Somehow, someway, surprisingly, inevitably it meanders towards a kindred tacit ineffable goal that they understand very well.
6
Thank you Roger for a wonderfully insightful Op-Ed.
The Arab world needs to stop obsessing about cartoons depicting their Prophet. They need to develop their own Walt Kelly and their own Pogo. They need to come to their own Pogo moment and realize they have met the enemy and he is them.
The Arab world needs to stop obsessing about cartoons depicting their Prophet. They need to develop their own Walt Kelly and their own Pogo. They need to come to their own Pogo moment and realize they have met the enemy and he is them.
28
Roger, some people feel that the options are not necessarily binary, i.e., Obama's current proposal vs absolutely no restraints of any kind whatsoever. Some feel that kicking the ball 10 years down the road is not a solution but a delay. And, that 10 years also assumes that the Iranians live up to their end of the bargain (keep their word). Since Iran has been lying and playing games since Khomeini came to power - that assumption is regarded, at best, as naive if not outright deceptive.
15
Young Arabs demand respect and opportunity. Arab nations push them down. So they do what they always do. Blame Israel! Only when young Arabs fully recognize whose thumb they have been living under all these decades will things change for the good.
4
The Arabs are always angry. They always feel aggrieved by the west and frustrated by the disbelief and apostasy of their fellow Arabs. Unfortunately, their anger is violent, brutual and cruel. ( not that we are gentle and kind)
The West and the US in particular can do nothing to stop what is happening in the ME but they could STOP sending weapons. Money seems to guide the continued arming of these groups and countries with more and more devastating weapons. They the world looks on in despair. Huh, you can't have it both ways stop arming thes guys. STOP sending them cash. Stop defending them and accepting their excuses.
Now is the time for the US to focus on its own needs like roads, bridges, rails, clean water... The list goes on and on.
The West and the US in particular can do nothing to stop what is happening in the ME but they could STOP sending weapons. Money seems to guide the continued arming of these groups and countries with more and more devastating weapons. They the world looks on in despair. Huh, you can't have it both ways stop arming thes guys. STOP sending them cash. Stop defending them and accepting their excuses.
Now is the time for the US to focus on its own needs like roads, bridges, rails, clean water... The list goes on and on.
3
There are 320 million Arabs, 80 million Turks, 80 million Persians, 35 million Kurds and 8.2 million Israelis. About 15 to 20 % of Arab Muslims are Shia Muslims. Egypt is the most populous Arab nation. But it has only the 6th most Muslims. There are 26 million Saudis and 24 million Yemenis. Bahrain has a Sunni Muslim royal minority ruling over a Shia Muslim majority.
Israel has 6.1 million Jews. The 6 million Arabs under Israeli dominion by occupation, blockade/siege and exile include 4.5 million in Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. Along with 1.5 million Arab Israelis. About 80% of the world's 15 million Jews are evenly spilt between America and Israel.
Islam and Muslims along with China bridged and advanced the world human knowledge socioeconomic educational world capital between the collapse of the Classical Greco-Roman world and the European Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.
How many members of these ethnic groups lived in and had a right to vote in a civil secular plural egalitarian democratic nation state where they were all created equal with certain unalienable rights?
How many of these people live in a nation state armed and financed by American tax payers?
What are American interests and values in this post-Arab Spring moment?
What can and should America do in order to achieve those goals?
There are the Arab people and their self-anointed leaders.
Israel has 6.1 million Jews. The 6 million Arabs under Israeli dominion by occupation, blockade/siege and exile include 4.5 million in Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. Along with 1.5 million Arab Israelis. About 80% of the world's 15 million Jews are evenly spilt between America and Israel.
Islam and Muslims along with China bridged and advanced the world human knowledge socioeconomic educational world capital between the collapse of the Classical Greco-Roman world and the European Renaissance, the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.
How many members of these ethnic groups lived in and had a right to vote in a civil secular plural egalitarian democratic nation state where they were all created equal with certain unalienable rights?
How many of these people live in a nation state armed and financed by American tax payers?
What are American interests and values in this post-Arab Spring moment?
What can and should America do in order to achieve those goals?
There are the Arab people and their self-anointed leaders.
1
Blackmamba--when are you going to learn that Jeffersonian democracy just doesn't work in Arab countries? That also goes for Iran. They simply don't believe in the concept that people have inalienable rights and will never understand Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Arab states are bitterly divided into rigid Sunni or Shiite subdivisions of Islam and they've been waging war against each other for 1400 years. The reason for American failure stems from the fact that we never know which side we're supposed to support. Inevitably we always make a bad situation worse when we guess wrong. And please enough with the the endless census counts.
"Arab humiliation"! There is no such thing because their is no such a thing as "Arab". What does the phrase "Arab countries" mean? They have very little in common: from the starving Yemen or Syria to the oil riches of Saudi Arabia.
You might say they have the Arabic language in common. But that is not true. A Lebanese will not be able to understand an Algerian's dialect. Formal Arabic is not spoken by any Arab country.
You might say Islam unite them. But that's not true either. You have a myriad of opposing schools of Islam in these countries from the fanatic Wahabies of Saudi Arabia to the mild Suphies of Tunisia. Also remember that Christianity was born in the Middle East and there are many Christians who call these countries home.
There is no such thing as Arab humiliation because "Arab" is devoid of any meaning.
You might say they have the Arabic language in common. But that is not true. A Lebanese will not be able to understand an Algerian's dialect. Formal Arabic is not spoken by any Arab country.
You might say Islam unite them. But that's not true either. You have a myriad of opposing schools of Islam in these countries from the fanatic Wahabies of Saudi Arabia to the mild Suphies of Tunisia. Also remember that Christianity was born in the Middle East and there are many Christians who call these countries home.
There is no such thing as Arab humiliation because "Arab" is devoid of any meaning.
1
Of course, all this sunshine and good sense depends for its reasonableness on the assumption that Iran has the capacity to coexist with its neighbors without seeking to subjugate them; and that's a pretty big assumption that could be quite invalid. As Roger notes himself, "Iran built up its current Middle Eastern reach in the absence of a nuclear deal, not with one". To what end did it develop that reach?
It may be that the "maintenance of an unsatisfactory status quo" is all that keeps the Middle East from exploding. And a nuclear-armed Iran, countered by Pakistani nukes in Saudi Arabia and Russian nukes in Egypt, would make such an explosion truly catastrophic.
Arabs may be having an angry moment, but the anger may not be irrational. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that the whole world ISN'T out to get me.
It may be that the "maintenance of an unsatisfactory status quo" is all that keeps the Middle East from exploding. And a nuclear-armed Iran, countered by Pakistani nukes in Saudi Arabia and Russian nukes in Egypt, would make such an explosion truly catastrophic.
Arabs may be having an angry moment, but the anger may not be irrational. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that the whole world ISN'T out to get me.
1
Richard,
Many in Canada made a similar assumption about our neighbour to the South. Now that our Southern Neighbour has lost his marbles we are scrambling like Heck to escape his embrace.
Many in Canada made a similar assumption about our neighbour to the South. Now that our Southern Neighbour has lost his marbles we are scrambling like Heck to escape his embrace.
1
Montreal Moe:
eh?
I'm reminded of all the sour grapes when Dubya won his second election, against Kerry. The liberati were suggesting that the United States divide, into "Jesus Land" and The "United States of Canada".
We actually survived, although I suspect we would have survived better if McCain had won in 2008.
But Iran means to establish hegemony over the entire region, enforce a Shi'a caliphate, and their imams don't care if in their failure to do that in the teeth of a FAR more populous Sunni weight of humanity, they destroy themselves.
When have we ever seemed so to Canadá?
eh?
I'm reminded of all the sour grapes when Dubya won his second election, against Kerry. The liberati were suggesting that the United States divide, into "Jesus Land" and The "United States of Canada".
We actually survived, although I suspect we would have survived better if McCain had won in 2008.
But Iran means to establish hegemony over the entire region, enforce a Shi'a caliphate, and their imams don't care if in their failure to do that in the teeth of a FAR more populous Sunni weight of humanity, they destroy themselves.
When have we ever seemed so to Canadá?
Richard,
Iran is a multi-ethnic urban society no more religious than our southern neighbour. I cannot conceive of another generation on Iranians putting up with the nonsense. Somehow I am in shock seeing so many McCarthy proteges running to lead the USA into the 21st century.
Our current Prime Minister and his henchmen are more Colorado Springs than Canadian Conservative.
Totalitarianism whether right or left is always a major concern in times of great change. Theocracy, oligarchy or Kleptocracy seem more the solutions proffered up south of the border than anything I see happening here in Canada. Our strength is diversity and dialogue and I am afraid for your country.
Meanwhile when do you expect your so called conservatives to get magic out of your science classes?
Iran is a multi-ethnic urban society no more religious than our southern neighbour. I cannot conceive of another generation on Iranians putting up with the nonsense. Somehow I am in shock seeing so many McCarthy proteges running to lead the USA into the 21st century.
Our current Prime Minister and his henchmen are more Colorado Springs than Canadian Conservative.
Totalitarianism whether right or left is always a major concern in times of great change. Theocracy, oligarchy or Kleptocracy seem more the solutions proffered up south of the border than anything I see happening here in Canada. Our strength is diversity and dialogue and I am afraid for your country.
Meanwhile when do you expect your so called conservatives to get magic out of your science classes?
2
The Squabble between the Arabs and the Persians is nothing new, this was there prior to a Muslim being Sunni or Shia. In Islamic history during his last Sermon one of the points the Prophet made was that the Arabs were not superior to the Non-Arabs (Ajami)) nor were the non-Arabs (Ajami) superior to the Arabs. Guess what these people are still fighting over it. It is not necessarily a Shia Sunni war, the Sunni Arabs are trying to paint it that way because they want to control all the wealth of the areas.
BTW, according to the CIA world fact book majority of the Muslims of Persian Gulf are Shia Muslims; that may be the singular reason for the Saudis to bring in faraway Sunni majority countries such as Egypt, Morocco, and Pakistan etc. in the equation and represent the Sunni Islam versus Shia Islam. Although it has nothing to do with Islam, it is pure and simple saving ones kingdom and wealth. Fouad Ajami a few years back had a good piece in Washington post http://bit.ly/Wizarat_Arabs_FAjami10
BTW, according to the CIA world fact book majority of the Muslims of Persian Gulf are Shia Muslims; that may be the singular reason for the Saudis to bring in faraway Sunni majority countries such as Egypt, Morocco, and Pakistan etc. in the equation and represent the Sunni Islam versus Shia Islam. Although it has nothing to do with Islam, it is pure and simple saving ones kingdom and wealth. Fouad Ajami a few years back had a good piece in Washington post http://bit.ly/Wizarat_Arabs_FAjami10
3
Not only can Obama walk and chew gum, he is smart enough not to eat a donut while chewing gum. He managed to get Syria's chemical weapons out of the country without bombs, invasion or entanglements. I hope his negotiations with Iran are as successful.
8
Ivy Ziedrich, the 19-year-old college student, had it right when she told Jeb Bush that his brother's administration upset whatever balance was in the Middle East prior to 2003. Unfortunately, the Bush family--and our GOP--hews to Einstein's definition of insanity by promoting more of the same as a solution to problems there.
1
The Arabs countries are the result of as you put it the collapsing Sykes-Picot order and the Persians are an actual Nation of Persian speaking people with over 3000 years of culture behind them. They have progressed in science and technology in spite of the most brutal sanctions regime in history, even tougher than Saddam’s Iraq. That may be another reason for the Arabs to show disdain/anger as they could not achieve any progress domestically other than buying from the West whatever they needed. History tells us that as Muslims the Arabs conquered far and wide and had a lot of contribution on astronomy, medicine, and social sciences. In order for them to progress again, they need to provide the freedom in their academia and the funding that may be needed to do basic research in their institutions and stop funding the Extremist ideology the world over, as whatever one propagates it gets a good part of the same.
In order to regain the glory of the past, past must only be used as a reference point and not as a goal, the world has moved on; Arabs need to move forward, maybe we can help them move forward and help them come out of the 7th century mind set which is creating the likes of Al-Qaeda and ISIS and the 9-11 hijackers (16 of 19 were Saudis). It is the ideology of literal interpretation of the book they believe in that is keeping them in the past.
In order to regain the glory of the past, past must only be used as a reference point and not as a goal, the world has moved on; Arabs need to move forward, maybe we can help them move forward and help them come out of the 7th century mind set which is creating the likes of Al-Qaeda and ISIS and the 9-11 hijackers (16 of 19 were Saudis). It is the ideology of literal interpretation of the book they believe in that is keeping them in the past.
5
Arabs have long had a problem with non-Arab states or Empires in their region, even if they were Muslim. This goes back to the non-Arab Ottoman, Safavid and and Moghal (Mughal) Empires.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=194_1389393515
Iranians (Persians) also apparently never liked Arabs and the feeling seems to be mutual.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/10/09/170927.html
Any deal with one will perforce be opposed by the other and there is no way to appease either side.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=194_1389393515
Iranians (Persians) also apparently never liked Arabs and the feeling seems to be mutual.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/10/09/170927.html
Any deal with one will perforce be opposed by the other and there is no way to appease either side.
7
"Humiliation"?
How many times do we have to hear that word in respect to the Arabs?
They are the chief humiliators of themselves with their enslaved populations of women who cannot drive, women wrapped from head to toe in black sheets, men who cannot speak or write freely, and children indoctrinated in such enlightened ideas as martyrdom, honor killing and Jew hatred.
They are always angry and dishonored and always one step away from hating the United States. They are always tribal, and their love of Islam never gets in the way of Shia despising Sunni.
They are reliably incompetent, and now are engaged in an international killing spree that affects the lives of the every nation on Earth. Their terror, exported around the world, is a poison that will constrain the future progress of man more than the imaginary doctrines and Abrahamic religions that grew out of these infertile lands.
I wish they would go away but they are human beings too. Someone should let them know that.
How many times do we have to hear that word in respect to the Arabs?
They are the chief humiliators of themselves with their enslaved populations of women who cannot drive, women wrapped from head to toe in black sheets, men who cannot speak or write freely, and children indoctrinated in such enlightened ideas as martyrdom, honor killing and Jew hatred.
They are always angry and dishonored and always one step away from hating the United States. They are always tribal, and their love of Islam never gets in the way of Shia despising Sunni.
They are reliably incompetent, and now are engaged in an international killing spree that affects the lives of the every nation on Earth. Their terror, exported around the world, is a poison that will constrain the future progress of man more than the imaginary doctrines and Abrahamic religions that grew out of these infertile lands.
I wish they would go away but they are human beings too. Someone should let them know that.
4
Obama's approach is fascinating. In an ideal world, the people of Iran would somehow shake off the "Harrison Bergeron"-like shackles of Islam that were forced upon them by invading Arabs and reclaim their historical greatness -- a Persian society of extraordinary intelligence and world-leading achievement. While this isn't going to happen, perhaps a slower approach of engagement and empowerment might encourage the Persians to move, bit by bit, away from the childish "honor"-tantrums and postures of Arab Islam and toward civilization.
1
Dear Mr. Cohen,
If nothing else, you have consistently supported anything Obama.Even when he loses the respect of the Saudi's & the other Gulf States & has alienated Democrats like myself with his snub of Netanyahu & joining the chorus of the pro Palestine hypocrites, while denouncing Israel for defending themselves against Hamas rockets.Don't be surprised if the 70-30 % Jewish Democratic vote is reversed in 2016.
If nothing else, you have consistently supported anything Obama.Even when he loses the respect of the Saudi's & the other Gulf States & has alienated Democrats like myself with his snub of Netanyahu & joining the chorus of the pro Palestine hypocrites, while denouncing Israel for defending themselves against Hamas rockets.Don't be surprised if the 70-30 % Jewish Democratic vote is reversed in 2016.
4
Ultraliberal - to a large extent, the New York Times made it clear to me that I can't vote for a Democrat any more. Now I can't vote for either party.
Too many of the comments focus on what "Arabs should do." Such exhortations are diplomatically lazy.
Our focus, as Americans, can and should be on what the U.S. should do. Of course the United States' options and interests are understood in the context of goings-on in the Arab world, and must take into account what Arab nations will or may do. However, any decisions as to actions or non-actions are ours alone.
A longstanding complaint of many Arab nations and their citizens is that the west, and particularly the U.S. does not treat them with sufficient dignity. Telling folks what they "need to do" and complaining about their "internally generated" problems certainly doesn't help foster a sense of dignity. It also ultimately harms our nation's interests and credibility.
Our focus, as Americans, can and should be on what the U.S. should do. Of course the United States' options and interests are understood in the context of goings-on in the Arab world, and must take into account what Arab nations will or may do. However, any decisions as to actions or non-actions are ours alone.
A longstanding complaint of many Arab nations and their citizens is that the west, and particularly the U.S. does not treat them with sufficient dignity. Telling folks what they "need to do" and complaining about their "internally generated" problems certainly doesn't help foster a sense of dignity. It also ultimately harms our nation's interests and credibility.
2
Roger Cohen is an apologist for Obama--and it is tiresome to read him now--his analysis is so tipped to liberal vertigo that his logic is dizzying to the rest of us. He loves to speak about a non-nuclear Iran--Iran is NOT non-nuclear in the Obama playbook--Iran IS nuclear---and while the agreement suggests this is ten years out, that we are denied inspection of military sites and that Obama is prepared to lower sanctions immediately tells us all that this deal is a joke---no negotiator in his right mind would lower sanctions without complete inspection and time--probably up to five years in this case. So--Roger--if your assistants read these letters, please, get real!!
Now--SA and Egypt are already beginning their nuke programs in response. Turkey will follow. Do you call this a success?
Arab humiliation is common---I agree that most of it is generated by Arabs. However, it is code for "we intend to react even more vigorously and illogically." So--Obama has opened up the Persian Gulf to the kind of instability it has never known.
Now--SA and Egypt are already beginning their nuke programs in response. Turkey will follow. Do you call this a success?
Arab humiliation is common---I agree that most of it is generated by Arabs. However, it is code for "we intend to react even more vigorously and illogically." So--Obama has opened up the Persian Gulf to the kind of instability it has never known.
2
Oh its all Obama's fault now? What about what happened in 2003, is that simply of no consequence to the current troubles? And what's the alternative to what Obama is proposing, just begin bombing immediately? Criticizing is easy, coming up with non-violent solutions is hard.
You can't march into modernity with a tribal culture.
5
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!!!
3
Running parallel to the 'Angry Arab Moment' overseas is an 'Angry Republican Moment' at home. Both these forces are synchronized to kill any peaceful Iran initiative.
4
The real problem for the Sunni Kingdoms and dictatorships is that their time is running out. The Arab spring was strangled but is not dead it will return as will the rebellions of the Shiites in Sunni ruled kingdoms. Siding with Sunni theocracies and authoritarian rulers at the expense of bringing Iran back from its pariah state is not a good long term strategy for the US. Yes Iran is a theocracy too but it has elections that actually ushered in the chance of change which should be encouraged. Not a likely event in Saudi Arabia. Then there is the right wing Israeli government that is heading toward a true apartheid state. Also not a reliable partner for the US. The middle east order is unraveling, There will be a lot of violence and killing. There is little we can do to stop it. The only rational strategy for the US is to hold to our democratic ideals and not try to gain short term advantages with alliances with brutal governments. Instead we should try to be on the right side of history. It is not idealism it is our only chance of building long term relationships with the people of the middle east.
50
Mr Moussa is a demagogue and a propagandist. His words reflects the desire of his masters (Arab dictators and monarchs). I would refrain from listening to him or any chairman of the Arab League for that matter. They don't represent the aspirations of main street Arabs.
The threat to Arabs, contrary to the conventional wisdom, is not outside enemy, rather it is inside enemy that has been taken advantage of by neighboring and competing nations such as Iran, Turkey and Israel. This inside enemy is bad and insidious governing. The continuous failure of governing is eating up resources, destroying the human capital, and bulldozing the remaining glimpse of hope among the Arab youth to the extent they are turning their back to life and adapting extreme measures.
It won't help Arab to blame other nations. This rhetoric is very poisoning. The world can help, if it wants to, by minimizing the meddling with Mideast politics, but let the Arab figure it out for themselves. It is not easy to believe that that problem is from within, particularly after ages of a rhetoric that claims otherwise.
The threat to Arabs, contrary to the conventional wisdom, is not outside enemy, rather it is inside enemy that has been taken advantage of by neighboring and competing nations such as Iran, Turkey and Israel. This inside enemy is bad and insidious governing. The continuous failure of governing is eating up resources, destroying the human capital, and bulldozing the remaining glimpse of hope among the Arab youth to the extent they are turning their back to life and adapting extreme measures.
It won't help Arab to blame other nations. This rhetoric is very poisoning. The world can help, if it wants to, by minimizing the meddling with Mideast politics, but let the Arab figure it out for themselves. It is not easy to believe that that problem is from within, particularly after ages of a rhetoric that claims otherwise.
32
Excellent comment. We have a great deal of difficulty with letting things evolve in situations where there are no easy points of intervention, but we must. There is no fix that the US can provide to what is happening. I pray that the US doesnt abandon that good sense under the next administration, whoever is running it.
One can only hope. Thanks for your contribution.
Wow I'm surprised at how little Mr. Cohen knows. For all the NYT reporters and opinion writers who have written extensively on the Middle East, I'm always amazed at how much they do not know. First of all, Amr Moussa is not merely a former secretary of the Arab League, but a Mubarak stooge. This should immediately give clear evidence to anyone that whatever Mr. Moussa says is not about "Arab" opinion, but about Dictators and incestious Kings and Princes of the Gulf Cooperating Council (GCC) states - i.e. Saudi, Qatar, UAE. This is NOT, NOT, NOT the same same thing as "Arab" opinion. Second, the fact he takes Moussa at his word for the reasons for the anger of the GCC leaders is sloppy. Speak to others than one individual. Yemen is not a proxy for Iran, and it is all about controlling the "puppet" or "legitimate" leader of that country. Third - to downplay US involvement in that conflict is staggering, but not surprising by any writer of the NYT. and Fourthly, Israel deserves all the blame and abuse it gets. When you behave outside the rules of law, that's exactly how you should be treated. We mock Russia and China for their Human Rights abuses, so it certainly should be no exception to do the same for Israel.
1
Arrogance and hubris. When so many different parties with different interests tell you that something stinks, check your body odor. Perhaps they are not delusional. Perhaps they have more insight into dealing with Iran, having dealt with them during the Ayatollahs reigns - when the US was shut out. No amount of Roger Cohen and Thomas Friedman opinions supporting this bad policy will overturn reality.
3
"There are risks to an Iran nuclear deal but the risks without one are far greater", you say. It is simply not true. The belief that once a deal is sign the US will attend all other problems Iran is creating is just a wishfull thinking. On the contrary, once a deal is signed and sunctions lifted Iran will increase its efforts to control the Middle East and will continue to develop its nuclear arsenal. A deal with Iran must be a package deal, all or none. The only weapon the Western world has are the sunctions and the removal of the sunctions for the nuclear deal will not accomplish anything but strengthen Iran. All these nice words/promises from President Obama to US allys (including Israel) are no different from lord Chemberlain's promises after the deal he made with Hitler in 1938. The notion that the sunction did not affected Iran is simply not true, it is the only reason they continued talking.
2
The Arab States, like Israel, see Iran for what it is: A rogue, fanatical state that must be suppressed. The President thinks he can do business with these people, but they are playing him and his empty-suited Secretary of State like a fiddle. Short of a rube walking into a car dealership and announcing that nothing is more important to his life and self image than buying the exact car on display, it would be hard to find an example of purposely putting yourself into a weak negotiating position better than Obama and Kerry's display in the Iran negotiations.
Unfortunately, Arab animosity to the Jewish State has, up until now, largely muted their public objections to these negotiations. Iran has played the Jewish card quite well in suppressing Arab opposition. It seems that the Arab rulers are starting to realize that perhaps their hold on power could be better preserved by opposing Iran than by stimulating hatred towards Israel.
Unfortunately, Arab animosity to the Jewish State has, up until now, largely muted their public objections to these negotiations. Iran has played the Jewish card quite well in suppressing Arab opposition. It seems that the Arab rulers are starting to realize that perhaps their hold on power could be better preserved by opposing Iran than by stimulating hatred towards Israel.
4
Roger, as usual when writing about the ME, you see a world that only exists in your own mind.
The Russians announced that there will be no "snapback" on sanctions if Iran violates the agreement. So there goes that threat and that leverage.
The Saudis and other Arabs have now told the White House that they feel compelled to match Iran's nuclear program step for step - because they understand that the agreement with Iran paves the way for Iran to be a nuclear power.
This has nothing to do with humiliation - and everything to do with a clear view of reality. Iran won't be constrained by relations with the West.
The Sunni states understand this. Too bad you and the policy makers in the Obama administration continue to hold onto a policy based on a total misread of the situation. But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your theories about international relations. The only people in favor of doing the madness of doing the "same thing over and over again" are you and those who think like you.
The Russians announced that there will be no "snapback" on sanctions if Iran violates the agreement. So there goes that threat and that leverage.
The Saudis and other Arabs have now told the White House that they feel compelled to match Iran's nuclear program step for step - because they understand that the agreement with Iran paves the way for Iran to be a nuclear power.
This has nothing to do with humiliation - and everything to do with a clear view of reality. Iran won't be constrained by relations with the West.
The Sunni states understand this. Too bad you and the policy makers in the Obama administration continue to hold onto a policy based on a total misread of the situation. But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your theories about international relations. The only people in favor of doing the madness of doing the "same thing over and over again" are you and those who think like you.
4
Racism is the unspoken truth of the Arab world. Not only racism against Jews.
Obama and Kerry, who I voted for, worked for and respected, do not understand the meaning of jawbone.
Obama and Kerry, who I voted for, worked for and respected, do not understand the meaning of jawbone.
4
The real enemy is, has been, Saudi Arabia. They have been laughing at us. for generations......they have financed terrorists......Unfortunately, Israel is playing their game....and we have a gang of irresponsible Congress who is controlled by lobbyists and their money.....against our own interest....Time, more than time, for real Americans to stand up.....and not take it anymore.
5
The anger of Sunni Arab states should be focused on their own behavior - indiscreetly killing innocent Shia Muslims ( case in point recent killing at Karachi), suppressing the Arab springs in Egypt, Libya, Yemen, and keeping 50% of its population outside economic activity. Countries, that bring immigrant labours in large numbers and systematically keeps their 50% of educated people outside economic activity will never be a successful country. Bribing, leveraging oil power and diplomacy will not protect them from rule of natural decay where the cancer has already deep routed in the system. Time has come for ordinary Arab citizens to take the control - the emergence of ISIS will accelerate the process. If ISIS change its ideology and adopt nationalism and humanism, it can change the Sunni Arab world.
2
Cohen proves the opposite of his conclusion. Obama is in retreat from boots on the ground everywhere.America has in reality acquiesced to Iranian hegemony over the entire Middle East. The Arabs are not going to go quietly into their good night over their ancient Persian enemies. Neither will Israel. The second nuclear war after Nagasaki will inevitably take place in the Middle East What a revolting development!
2
Excellent summation. If only the US Congress were able to understand the first things about international relations and the interests of the United States.
1
Doesn't appear all that complicated. Western powers especially the US is war weary as sonce WW 2 we haeven't won a war. So with no US or Brit boots on the ground these middle eastern countries with all their factions are on their own to conclude who will rule what via whatever means. Probably an expanded Middle East war as the west remains an observer. We make token traing jestures and kill a few with drones to keep face as they say. We need to know and then hopefully believe Hillaries position. Jeb or Rubio probably would get us re-involved. Kerry would get canned and a hawk would be his replacement probably a General.
1
The United States will manage its interests in the Middle East and elsewhere more efficiently, and be respected for it as well, if it just looked out for its own national interests, that is, American national interests, instead of pandering to Saudis, or anyone else.
And anyway, what options do Saudis and their ilk have to get a defensive umbrella? China? Russia? France? Themselves? Really? They will just have to get out of their sulk and learn to deal with these United States, the way United States wants to be dealt with, with respect.
And all of these Arab rulers have funny priorities: The Saudi in-law, the Bahraini king (yes, he actually is) passed on meeting the President due to other pressing engagements, like attending the horse races in Britain. I kid you not. You can look it up. Perhaps the White House needs to time the meetings with these despots around major racing events in Kentucky or Belmont to get their fleeting attention.
And anyway, what options do Saudis and their ilk have to get a defensive umbrella? China? Russia? France? Themselves? Really? They will just have to get out of their sulk and learn to deal with these United States, the way United States wants to be dealt with, with respect.
And all of these Arab rulers have funny priorities: The Saudi in-law, the Bahraini king (yes, he actually is) passed on meeting the President due to other pressing engagements, like attending the horse races in Britain. I kid you not. You can look it up. Perhaps the White House needs to time the meetings with these despots around major racing events in Kentucky or Belmont to get their fleeting attention.
4
You can quibble about the analysis of the various players, but the support for Obama's efforts to make a deal on nukes with Iran is well-reasoned. There is no alternative but Bibi's war. Let him do it, not us.
we need to get out of the mid-east politics and leave it to the mid-east and surrounding states in europe et al.
our competition is China and the emerging far east. Time to move on.
we need to get out of the mid-east politics and leave it to the mid-east and surrounding states in europe et al.
our competition is China and the emerging far east. Time to move on.
12
Have we forgotten that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia and that the only commercial planes allowed to fly in the U.S. on the days immediately after were taking Saudi Arabian officials home or that Osama bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia?
Our relationship with Iran is complicated. We overthrew their democratically elected President and helped install a compliant dictator whose secret police we helped to train. They took our diplomats as hostages. We supported Hussein''s ruthless war against Iran. They supported the militarization of Israel's enemies. Mistrust is understandable.
We don't have to make peace with our friends. They are already our friends! We need to make peace with our potential enemies. A more moderate Iran can have a more moderating influence in the Middle East. A nuclear agreement with Iran can begin a process of turning enemies into something far less dangerous. There is no downside.
If the Saudi Arabian royals cannot see this, then they should at least get out of the way.
Our relationship with Iran is complicated. We overthrew their democratically elected President and helped install a compliant dictator whose secret police we helped to train. They took our diplomats as hostages. We supported Hussein''s ruthless war against Iran. They supported the militarization of Israel's enemies. Mistrust is understandable.
We don't have to make peace with our friends. They are already our friends! We need to make peace with our potential enemies. A more moderate Iran can have a more moderating influence in the Middle East. A nuclear agreement with Iran can begin a process of turning enemies into something far less dangerous. There is no downside.
If the Saudi Arabian royals cannot see this, then they should at least get out of the way.
37
Tribalism is alive and well in the Middle East. Scary that the inept leadership in the USA is toying with them.
2
Roger Cohen, as usual, misses key points: Can Iran be trusted? If not, can we trust Mr. Obama to deal with the consequences, especially if that means using force? The Arab (and Israel) believe not. Mr. Cohen believes yes. He has bought into Mr. Obama's framing of the issue as either this deal or no deal. The real issue is what kind of deal and what kind of real world options do we have if Iran cheats, especially with a President of Mr. Obama's druthers? It's been clear for some time that for Mr. Obama the failure to get a-n-y deal was not an option. The issue of freeing Iranian resources so it can continue to export its revolution has never been satisfactorily addressed, beyond the vague hope that Iran can be drawn into the circle of rule-abiding states. On what basis? Let's turn Mr. Cohen's observation on its head: if this is what Iran does when hobbled by sanctions, how much worse can it do when freed of those sanctions? Mr. Obama's singular strength is that he is not George Bush and wants to avoid another quagmire. Ok. I get that. But Mr. Obama's Middle East record is hardly better, and arguably has led to more instability. As David Remnick of the New Yorker wrote, no one fears Mr. Obama. This is a terrible thing to say. Unfortunately, toughness -- and the perception of toughness -- matters. No one believes that Mr. Obama's bottom lines on a-n-y issue won't be modified tomorrow in the name of the "big picture." Except, apparently, for Mr. Cohen.
3
"no one fears the President," Is that such a bad thing? Fear is what the Republician party has operated on since the Great Depression.
1
Mel,
I find it truly frightening how little Americans know about the places and cultures where they are willing to shed blood. Iran is a society much like the USA. It is multietnic and very urban. It has its Oklahomas and Louisiannas but it has great universities and a highly educated population. Iran has always incorporated the ideas and products of other cultures into its mosaic. I am sure it would like to spread its foods and literature to all corners of the world and I personally welcome the presence of our Persian Supermarket.
Iran is not the Arabian Peninsula and has much to offer us. There is much from the USA that I personally value. The right wing backlash that currently holds sway in Tehran isn't all that different from the tyranny inflicted by Joseph Raymond McCarthy and I would argue that today's GOP is not much different from McCarthy's GOP. Theocracy is just another excuse for totalitarianism much the same as government so small you can drown it in a bathtub.
I find it truly frightening how little Americans know about the places and cultures where they are willing to shed blood. Iran is a society much like the USA. It is multietnic and very urban. It has its Oklahomas and Louisiannas but it has great universities and a highly educated population. Iran has always incorporated the ideas and products of other cultures into its mosaic. I am sure it would like to spread its foods and literature to all corners of the world and I personally welcome the presence of our Persian Supermarket.
Iran is not the Arabian Peninsula and has much to offer us. There is much from the USA that I personally value. The right wing backlash that currently holds sway in Tehran isn't all that different from the tyranny inflicted by Joseph Raymond McCarthy and I would argue that today's GOP is not much different from McCarthy's GOP. Theocracy is just another excuse for totalitarianism much the same as government so small you can drown it in a bathtub.
1
Ah, it's probably time for Sunni Saudi Arabia to think about its own nukes, and nuke defenses. (Hello, Pakistan! LOL.) Relying on others, I.e. the U.S., is never a particularly good idea.
The chickens are coming home to roust; the Arab world of autocrat; brutal and Islamic/Jihadist Sunni regimes are coming to an end. The United States umbrella; the Iran and Israeli bashing are all becoming stale and exposing their fraud of governance. How many countries in the Middle East will the Saudis and its cohorts invade to stop the coming armagedon? Even the dictatorship in Egypt that was recently bought and installed cannot stop it; it too is living on borrowed time. The people will be free and the false princelings of the Arab peninsula will become history.
6
"There are risks to an Iran nuclear deal but the risks without one are far greater."
WRONG !
There are risks to a No Deal,but the Risks to a Deal are Greater!
Listen to what the people in the Middle East - both Arabs and Israelis , are saying...
They know Iran much better ...
If Iran is so aggressive now with Sanctions in place, how much more so aggressive would Iran be without Sanctions...
Re: Iran's Nuclear ambitions, does anyone really think that IAEA Inspectors would be able determine if Iran was " Cheating" - would any sane person bet their "House" on it..? ...
.... and in fact the Ayatollah Khameini has said there would not be intrusive inspections..
Obama's policy regarding Iran is based on pure "wishful" thinking, just like Obama's so called " Arab Spring" - which has turned into an "Arab Nightmare."
To bet the Peace of the Middle East and maybe the World on "Wishful Thinking" .... is purely "Wishful Thinking"...
WRONG !
There are risks to a No Deal,but the Risks to a Deal are Greater!
Listen to what the people in the Middle East - both Arabs and Israelis , are saying...
They know Iran much better ...
If Iran is so aggressive now with Sanctions in place, how much more so aggressive would Iran be without Sanctions...
Re: Iran's Nuclear ambitions, does anyone really think that IAEA Inspectors would be able determine if Iran was " Cheating" - would any sane person bet their "House" on it..? ...
.... and in fact the Ayatollah Khameini has said there would not be intrusive inspections..
Obama's policy regarding Iran is based on pure "wishful" thinking, just like Obama's so called " Arab Spring" - which has turned into an "Arab Nightmare."
To bet the Peace of the Middle East and maybe the World on "Wishful Thinking" .... is purely "Wishful Thinking"...
5
Henry,
I am a Canadian descended from a long line of Zionists. I would not like to see nuclear weapons in the hands of the Ayatollahs but the thought of a Mike Huckabee, Mark Rubio or Rick Santorum with Launch Codes would keep me up at night.
I am a Canadian descended from a long line of Zionists. I would not like to see nuclear weapons in the hands of the Ayatollahs but the thought of a Mike Huckabee, Mark Rubio or Rick Santorum with Launch Codes would keep me up at night.
1
A. Maj. Gen. Qassem Soleimani’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, DOES NOT "need" Hassan Rouhani by any stretch of the imagination. Who is this guy (Cohen)? He's been enamored of Iran since the 2009 election and does not seem able to get over it. Exporting the "revolution" has been a fundamental element in the constitution of the Islamic Republic since 1979. (Note how much they spend on say, helping Hezbollah, or building rockets even as they complain about domestic economic shortcomings) and they've achieved the current status through 36 years of hard work while Gulf Arabs have been busy building really tall buildings and US has been sucking its thumb.
1
The Wahabists have been busy building madrassas all over the world and exporting their extremist brand of fundatmentalist jihadi Islam. That's what they are doing with their money.
our foreign policy should be guided by this rule-nations don't have friends, they only have interests. why are these gulf states referred to as our "allies" or "friends". we have no treaty commitments to them. what exactly do we get out of this so called alliance-fighting communism-in the past, democratization-no. oil-don't need it any more. we never seem to examine these commitments. 50 years go by, conditions in the world change but our policies never seem to
6
Many will comment about "Iran's nuclear ambitions."
Would those of you with proof of Iran's active program to develop nuclear weapons please provide that information to Israel?
You see, for over 20 years, Israeli leaders and various neocons have claimed that Iran was 'months away' from developing a nuclear weapon.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-cr...
Netanyahu, of course, also testified before Congress [for some reason] that there was 'absolutely, positively no doubt' that Saddam was working on a nuclear weapon and had WMDs.
While Saddam was not - Israel was.
Meanwhile, neither Israeli nor US intelligence has found evidence that Iran is working on a nuclear weapon.
So then - why are so many of you convinced that they are racing toward a bomb?
Probably the same reason so many think the former leader of Iran said they would "wipe Israel off the map."
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/iran-wipe-israel-map-read-600-wor...
Israelis/Zionist propaganda.
The nuclear issue is a ruse. Iran, inter alia, supports the Lebanese resistance and frustrates Israel's ability to take Lebanon to the Litani and steal its water and gas.
The Israelis want regime change, and as with Iraq, they want American blood and treasure employed to accomplish that feat.
Would those of you with proof of Iran's active program to develop nuclear weapons please provide that information to Israel?
You see, for over 20 years, Israeli leaders and various neocons have claimed that Iran was 'months away' from developing a nuclear weapon.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/02/brief-history-netanyahu-cr...
Netanyahu, of course, also testified before Congress [for some reason] that there was 'absolutely, positively no doubt' that Saddam was working on a nuclear weapon and had WMDs.
While Saddam was not - Israel was.
Meanwhile, neither Israeli nor US intelligence has found evidence that Iran is working on a nuclear weapon.
So then - why are so many of you convinced that they are racing toward a bomb?
Probably the same reason so many think the former leader of Iran said they would "wipe Israel off the map."
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/iran-wipe-israel-map-read-600-wor...
Israelis/Zionist propaganda.
The nuclear issue is a ruse. Iran, inter alia, supports the Lebanese resistance and frustrates Israel's ability to take Lebanon to the Litani and steal its water and gas.
The Israelis want regime change, and as with Iraq, they want American blood and treasure employed to accomplish that feat.
49
Israel has pretty good data but in case you don’t trust the Zionist entity, what about President Obama and his Energy Secretary Moniz: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-04-21/obama-kept-iran-s-short... “Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz acknowledged that the U.S. has assessed for several years that Iran has been two to three months away from producing enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon. When asked how long the administration has held this assessment, Moniz said: "Oh quite some time." He added: "They are now, they are right now spinning, I mean enriching with 9,400 centrifuges out of their roughly 19,000. Plus all the . . . . R&D work. If you put that together it's very, very little time to go forward. That's the 2-3 months."
As for the Iranian regime call to eliminate Israel, well that has been an ongoing refrain. Here is a recent one from just a few weeks ago http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/10/world/meast/iran-annihilate-israel/ in fact he wasn’t shy he used Twitter.
As for the Israelis wanting “American blood and treasure” how about offering a little proof for that canard.
As for the Iranian regime call to eliminate Israel, well that has been an ongoing refrain. Here is a recent one from just a few weeks ago http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/10/world/meast/iran-annihilate-israel/ in fact he wasn’t shy he used Twitter.
As for the Israelis wanting “American blood and treasure” how about offering a little proof for that canard.
"We (the Saudi's) were America's best friend in the Arab world for fifty years"
Prince Turki bin Faisal
With friends like this...
Building Wahabbi madrasas, worldwide, which are working triple shifts cranking out anti western, anti modern death worshipping suicide bombers and jihadi's.
The shock troops of al Qaeda, AQAP, AQIM, Nusra front, Boko Haram, the Shabab, now ISIS.
15 of the 19 9/11 madmen.
The $1.2 BILLION gifted to the Bushes by the House of Saud was paid back in American blood.
It still paid off on 9/12 when the only airplane departing US airspace was chock a block with Saudi royals and bin Laden family members. Ahead of any unpleasant questions from the FBI.
Prince Turki bin Faisal
With friends like this...
Building Wahabbi madrasas, worldwide, which are working triple shifts cranking out anti western, anti modern death worshipping suicide bombers and jihadi's.
The shock troops of al Qaeda, AQAP, AQIM, Nusra front, Boko Haram, the Shabab, now ISIS.
15 of the 19 9/11 madmen.
The $1.2 BILLION gifted to the Bushes by the House of Saud was paid back in American blood.
It still paid off on 9/12 when the only airplane departing US airspace was chock a block with Saudi royals and bin Laden family members. Ahead of any unpleasant questions from the FBI.
136
I am sure that American motorists in the 1970s broke out in song while they lined up at the pump singing "What a friend we have in Riyadh."
Imagine the U.S. reply to arab monarchs in a world where the price of oil had the same consequence for our economy as, say, the price of pistachios. Their demands would be ridiculous. The value of building a relationship with Iran, even if it's a cautious relationship that includes disagreements and a few jabs, is high and filled with potential for breakthrough. The president is right to be open to it.
20
It is ironic that these Arab leaders are concerned with humiliation when they don't seem to understand that not allowing women to drive (Saudi Arabia) and other long noted inequality in the laws about women humiliate women all the time, every day. Then there is the humiliation of lack of opportunity and jobs. If women ever reacted to this humiliation the way these leaders do, the world would be a different place.
97
But that is their whole point - the only thing that matters is their pride and honor - that of the powerful, rich Arab males. That is all they care about.
3
The problem has always been from within. They are intractable and violent when humiliated. They are are intractable and threatening when successful. They fight amongst each other like warring tribes. And they hold on to grudges for a long, long time.
3
"The walk-and-chew-gum American argument is a tough sell because Arab honor and Arab humiliation are in play."
No. The walk and chew gum american argument is an impossible sell because the Bush and Obama administrations have proven they cannot walk and chew gum.
Neither administration listens to Arab nations. It doesn't lecture them because lecturing requires a moment of focused attention.
The Obama WH is, and this is an accomplishment, the most patronizing WH in at least one hundred years. On Japan remilitarization its smug, clueless, patronizing of east asia is the equal of its patronizing Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
But time for an article about those dumb A rabs.
No. The walk and chew gum american argument is an impossible sell because the Bush and Obama administrations have proven they cannot walk and chew gum.
Neither administration listens to Arab nations. It doesn't lecture them because lecturing requires a moment of focused attention.
The Obama WH is, and this is an accomplishment, the most patronizing WH in at least one hundred years. On Japan remilitarization its smug, clueless, patronizing of east asia is the equal of its patronizing Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
But time for an article about those dumb A rabs.
6
As usual, Roger Cohen talks out of both sides of his mouth without any knowledge. So now that we see ourselves in a bigger mess, with our Arab allies reaching for nuclear weapons to match Iran's capability, was Netanyahu wrong to question Obama?
4
"...was Netanyahu wrong to question Obama?"
Was the US wrong to allow Israel to acquire nuclear weapons? In the absence of bias, the answer to both questions must be the same.
Was the US wrong to allow Israel to acquire nuclear weapons? In the absence of bias, the answer to both questions must be the same.
3
Excellent column. Thanks!!!
8
Mr. Cohen has gone on record as supporting a tougher U.S. stance in favor the Ukranian rebels, which means undercutting a much more powerful adversary in the form of Russia. On the Iran side, he is a complete appeaser. Iran will get nukes anyway is his view so might as well make them do it secretly. I strongly disagree. We must use every tool at our disposal to completely destroy the Iranian nuclear capability. A negotiated agreement can do this but only if the starting point is removal of enriched Uranium and no enrichment capability in the future. We should be prepared to destroy their facilities militarily to stop this and if it has to be done every two years or so we should let them know we are up for that as well. Some will say this is like Iraq but it is not. We know the Iranians are working towards nukes. They cannot be allowed to get them or an Arms race in the region will lead almost certainly to the use of these weapons.
4
Why are you so certain that Iran is seeking to build a nuclear arsenal? Both Israel's Masad and our CIA have said there's no real evidence of this. And so what if they do? Iran is not suicidal; they know that if they launch a nuclear weapon that they will be destroyed. India and Pakistan are traditional enemies, both have nuclear weapons, and both know they cannot be launched. During the cold war, the USSR and USA did a lot of posturing, but both knew that launching a nuclear attack was certain suicide. Aside from a lot of anti-Iranian propaganda from the usual sources, the theoretical danger of a nuclear-armed Iran are overblown. In a perfect world, all nuclear weapons--including those stockpiled by Israel--would be destroyed, but we don't live in this perfect world. Of course, as Cohen notes, there are risks to an Iranianin nuclear deal, but not to reach one is madness. This 5000-year-old civilization is smart enough to know that the oil age is ending, and the future requires alternative energy, which unfortunately, will include nuclear energy. They are also astute enough to know that using a nuclear weapon is certain suicide. Our best hope of defeating ISIS, a common enemy, is to mend relations with Iran, and support Iran in this effort. The best interests of both the US and Iran require that the latter be realligned with the West.
4
Roger, it is far worse than "a bristling cat" - what's going on in the Arab countries as President Obama is mis-perceived as cuddling up to Tehran, as we cuddled up to Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, before the Revolution of 1979. The Arab Spring hasn't developed much though it bloomed a few years ago, the people demanding change and empowerment. A nuclear deal with Iran is scary to contemplate. The Israelis are quaking in their Sabra military boots - and there is something heating up on their northern border with Lebanon and eastern border with the Golan Heights that may soon take the world's attention from President Obama and his Iranian counterpart, President Hassan Rouhani. It's an "angry Arab moment", as you posit, Roger, but our President is a lot cooler than a "walk-and-chew-gum kind of guy". A little respect instead of a little dis, please.
5
Roger Cohen is spot on; the Persian Gulf countries are better off with an Iranian nuclear program which is closely monitored and engaging Iran to resolve the current regional crisis rather than the status quo and containment. The reality is that Arab countries resentment towards the three non Arab regional superpowers (Israel, Turkey and Iran) is primarily shaped by history; the rise of the Ottoman Empire claiming the caliphate in the 13th century, the Safavid dynasty in Persia which converted the country to Shia Islam and the creation of the state of Israel in 1947.
45
I take Amr Moussa 's words as a noise but not a comprehensive assessment. he is thinking that Organizing killing squads against Shiites is awakening. This is the guy of Arab league representative. this type of talk is nothing but saving the salary which is endowed by oil rich sheiks.
First and fore most, I really do not see in Saudi and Gulf emirates stance against or confrontational to Israel. In fact What Netanyahu express is like a palace speaker of Saudi Kings. extremely parallel and 100% behind curtain organized collaboration. meanwhile Palestine and their miserable millions were abused and used by Sunni Arab political leaders as a save the face ideology.
Arabs long lost their honor, and With ISIS and Al Qaeda , they showed their criminal side.
Sunni Arabs with their oil wealth assured, God's shadow on the earth attitude towards to other Muslim nations is the most treasonous act ever contemplated.
Arabs lost honor so irreversibly in Muslim world, they massacred people during Holy Cuma days, destroyed Islamic shrines and historic places, executed and murdered people which is not the Islam approves, rape and exiled millions from their lands. from Sudan to Syria.
The time for Arab's to be the boss of Muslim world is over. They must acknowledge , Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia etc.
They can still collaborate with Israel but Anymore Muslim world understand that Saudi's and Israel is in the same boat .
First and fore most, I really do not see in Saudi and Gulf emirates stance against or confrontational to Israel. In fact What Netanyahu express is like a palace speaker of Saudi Kings. extremely parallel and 100% behind curtain organized collaboration. meanwhile Palestine and their miserable millions were abused and used by Sunni Arab political leaders as a save the face ideology.
Arabs long lost their honor, and With ISIS and Al Qaeda , they showed their criminal side.
Sunni Arabs with their oil wealth assured, God's shadow on the earth attitude towards to other Muslim nations is the most treasonous act ever contemplated.
Arabs lost honor so irreversibly in Muslim world, they massacred people during Holy Cuma days, destroyed Islamic shrines and historic places, executed and murdered people which is not the Islam approves, rape and exiled millions from their lands. from Sudan to Syria.
The time for Arab's to be the boss of Muslim world is over. They must acknowledge , Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia etc.
They can still collaborate with Israel but Anymore Muslim world understand that Saudi's and Israel is in the same boat .
27
Mr. Cohen has put t as it is. The Sunni Arabs ruers have emasculated their own population, no choice, no accountability and all because they have Uncle Sam at their beck and call. That has now been changed by the dynamics of oil exploration and fraction.
The Sunni rulers lost a golden chance when they connived and denied the Egyptians a choice, squelched the Bahrain aspirations by turning the issue into a sectarian and anti-Iranian movement. Now Yemen is getting bombed to disintegration following Iraq after the US ousted the Sunni dictator Saddam. Today Iraq is well on the disintegration front, with Syria close by. All for imagined Sunni interests. Is it that Sunni Islam cannot thrive in a free and democratic environment or perhaps is led by dictatorial monarchs and Ulema? he US is of course very complicit in all this by obviously refusing to face who the instigators of 9/11 and the extremists Al-Qaeda and Taliban are. The IS certainly can't be said to be inspired by Iran or is it? The Angst has been misguided as it should be focused on those who truncated any move to start an inclusive governance for the Arabs relying instead on a false sense of greatness achieved by the truly great rulers of the past unlike the US supported regimes now ruining the entire Region; after all Iran was once the darling of both DC and the Arabs, and even then the Iranians were still Shiite as at today.
The Sunni rulers lost a golden chance when they connived and denied the Egyptians a choice, squelched the Bahrain aspirations by turning the issue into a sectarian and anti-Iranian movement. Now Yemen is getting bombed to disintegration following Iraq after the US ousted the Sunni dictator Saddam. Today Iraq is well on the disintegration front, with Syria close by. All for imagined Sunni interests. Is it that Sunni Islam cannot thrive in a free and democratic environment or perhaps is led by dictatorial monarchs and Ulema? he US is of course very complicit in all this by obviously refusing to face who the instigators of 9/11 and the extremists Al-Qaeda and Taliban are. The IS certainly can't be said to be inspired by Iran or is it? The Angst has been misguided as it should be focused on those who truncated any move to start an inclusive governance for the Arabs relying instead on a false sense of greatness achieved by the truly great rulers of the past unlike the US supported regimes now ruining the entire Region; after all Iran was once the darling of both DC and the Arabs, and even then the Iranians were still Shiite as at today.
20
Mr Cohen manages to write eloquently and insightfully about the current Middle East situation but omits a key and obvious factor.One cannot consider strategic interests and forget the deep and longstanding sectarian divide which often trumps such interests in that region.The same argument could have been made in Iraq and Syria but the religious divide made alignment of obvious strategic common interests amongst the local players impossible.
1
Cohen, as usual, is right on target with several of the points made, and continues to be the leading voice that the Times has explaining the nuances, conflicting goals, and nationalist issues in the Middle East. Having spent time there, I would refine the two of his interconnected issues as follows:
1. Arabs are always in the "midst of an awakening" at one level or another, because their history is consistently colored by those who deceived them, whether the conflict was tribal or Western imperialist borne, and
2. The Arab "sense of humiliation" is not "at least as much internally generated as externally" - it's much more a product of their internal sense of pride, which uses as a metric their feelings about what happened to them in 1. above. This plays out as a level of paranoia or suspicion which paralyzes them with respect to knowing what's best for them, particularly in the long run.
My experience there was so filled with Arab ambivalence and vacillation about even the most benign decisions that it only made me feel sorry for them. Many Arabs essentially live in the prisons of their own minds, destined to repeat the same mistakes due to their inability to trust and take risks, until they're blessed with some leaders who can guide them out of the wilderness.
One other - it's not too much to go back to Sykes-Picot and the shaping of the Middle East in the five years after WWI - the deep distrust of Arabs of a century ago with the West started with that.
1. Arabs are always in the "midst of an awakening" at one level or another, because their history is consistently colored by those who deceived them, whether the conflict was tribal or Western imperialist borne, and
2. The Arab "sense of humiliation" is not "at least as much internally generated as externally" - it's much more a product of their internal sense of pride, which uses as a metric their feelings about what happened to them in 1. above. This plays out as a level of paranoia or suspicion which paralyzes them with respect to knowing what's best for them, particularly in the long run.
My experience there was so filled with Arab ambivalence and vacillation about even the most benign decisions that it only made me feel sorry for them. Many Arabs essentially live in the prisons of their own minds, destined to repeat the same mistakes due to their inability to trust and take risks, until they're blessed with some leaders who can guide them out of the wilderness.
One other - it's not too much to go back to Sykes-Picot and the shaping of the Middle East in the five years after WWI - the deep distrust of Arabs of a century ago with the West started with that.
52
In most instances, a contiguous block of people who speak the same language will constitute a nation-state. Due to the imperialist tactic of divide and conquer and the neo-imperialist preservation of those divisions, the Arabs are fragmented and relatively powerless. They have a reason to be angry. But when the local managers of the neo-imperialist system pretend that they are angry it is a joke.
The humiliation that Arabs feel is more internally generated. The Iran tantrum is just a way to talk around it. Arabs are humiliated because of the way their leaders thwart their demands for more openness, rule by force or pretend kingdoms. They are also humiliated because they have let themselves lapse culturally, being dominated by their religious leaders to prevent their women from entering the workforce, etc etc.
President Obama is right on the money with Iran. It challenges the Arab world to break through its clueless approach towards to future, towards more pluralism, less reliance on bombs and oil to have its way. Will it happen. I'm not betting on the Arabs to pick up the challenge of history like they did in the middle ages.
President Obama is right on the money with Iran. It challenges the Arab world to break through its clueless approach towards to future, towards more pluralism, less reliance on bombs and oil to have its way. Will it happen. I'm not betting on the Arabs to pick up the challenge of history like they did in the middle ages.
139
Insightful, compassionate and optimistic view. Like breath of fresh air.
1
ivehadit, sir, it also challenges them to also acquire nuclear arms to feel safe from Iranian aggression. Progress? I don't think so.
"Like any other power, Arabs control their own destiny."
Except most of them have a palpable sense or conviction that they do not. While it probably destroyed hereditary rule in several Arab states, for many the so-called Arab Spring has been an enormous disappointment. It's not clear what will follow, particularly when the most organized parties have now been forced back underground and disillusionment and bitterness have set in for millions of Arabs. For tens of millions of Arabs, most of the last five decades have just been one humiliation after another, some large and some small.
Mr. Cohen is of course right: President Obama has to see this emerging Iran nuclear power deal through and he can't worry about vague hints of future Sunni response coming from its state leaders. Arab anger is real and it is justified in many cases, but we shouldn't accede, for example, to one Arab state attempting to destroy another via airstrikes on Aden. Yemen is embroiled in a civil war; matters become much worse if it is the setting for a Saudi-Iranian proxy war.
Except most of them have a palpable sense or conviction that they do not. While it probably destroyed hereditary rule in several Arab states, for many the so-called Arab Spring has been an enormous disappointment. It's not clear what will follow, particularly when the most organized parties have now been forced back underground and disillusionment and bitterness have set in for millions of Arabs. For tens of millions of Arabs, most of the last five decades have just been one humiliation after another, some large and some small.
Mr. Cohen is of course right: President Obama has to see this emerging Iran nuclear power deal through and he can't worry about vague hints of future Sunni response coming from its state leaders. Arab anger is real and it is justified in many cases, but we shouldn't accede, for example, to one Arab state attempting to destroy another via airstrikes on Aden. Yemen is embroiled in a civil war; matters become much worse if it is the setting for a Saudi-Iranian proxy war.
59
It's not so much a question of whether Pres. Obama will "see this emergin Iran nuclear power deal through" as wheter 1) the Congress will support his doing so and 2) whether the Administration which follows the current one will keep in place any deal that is made. I for one hope those two things will happen.
"Mark Guest," Wrong. Our destinies are a function (among many other salient variables) the culture and values that we are indoctrinated with after birth.
From the musical SOUTH PACIFIC please remember the line, "You've got to be taught."
From the musical SOUTH PACIFIC please remember the line, "You've got to be taught."
1
Arabs, including Saudis, have to learn that leaning on bombing campaigns will not bring them what they want. Education, real education, (not the Wahhabi propaganda in madrassas) for ALL their citizens, especially their women is the only way to bring Arab nations out of their economic and intellectual stagnation. Sometimes you need to go beyond pure hatred and learn from your enemy; Iran has learned that lesson a long time ago and has one of the best educated female population and political participation in the Middle-East.
31
So many assumptions and assertions. And so many other ways to perceive the issues involved. The main tensions in the middle east have, for some time, been related to a geopolitical struggle between Iran (Persian) and Saudi Arabia. The Shia-Suni split is part of the divide, it is very old, and hence tribal religious beliefs have been used by all sides as recruiting tools: http://www.cfr.org/peace-conflict-and-human-rights/sunni-shia-divide/p33...!/ . There is arguably more to the new Saudi king staying away from upcoming meetings than simply political irritations, but those can always be factors. It is very hard to tell what would be worse: the nuclear deal with Iran as planned or "something else" (and who knows what that might be). It is difficult, for now, to see how to stop Iran from ultimately getting a weapon. And it is difficult to see Saudi Arabia not following suit. As to the "laughingstock" comment, the Arab states have had troubles with secular modernity for a long time, and some keen observers are more inclined to cry: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/09/the-barbarians-within-our... . Any number of recent editorials are unconvinced about a total unraveling of Sykes-Picot.
1
You would think that Mr. Moussa would understand his block was laughingstock long before Iran elected to flex its muscles. That's what happens when a people allow their past to dominate their future.
I ask myself this question: would Iran be so aggressive today were Shiites not seen as such pariahs in places like Saudi Arabia - and at risk of being murdered throughout the Saudi-influenced world?
Perhaps it is time for Arabs adhering to a religion of peace to give peace a chance - by becoming willing to embrace their Shiite brothers, and putting an end to the mother of all religious wars?
Otherwise, they should stop wasting everyone's time.
I ask myself this question: would Iran be so aggressive today were Shiites not seen as such pariahs in places like Saudi Arabia - and at risk of being murdered throughout the Saudi-influenced world?
Perhaps it is time for Arabs adhering to a religion of peace to give peace a chance - by becoming willing to embrace their Shiite brothers, and putting an end to the mother of all religious wars?
Otherwise, they should stop wasting everyone's time.
97
I don't think they're going to listen to you. I just hope we're not stupid enough to put American soldiers in this hate stew.
2
This is not "Arab" high dudgeon, it is Sunni high dudgeon.
Iran is feared for being Shiite. Sunnis fear rise of Shiite power.
Why? It isn't some obscure sectarian thing. It is money and power of Sunni elites in their own countries.
In Saudi Arabia, Sunnis have all the money and power. Yet many Shiites live there. They live on the oil fields. They get none of that oil, nor any of the money nor power. The issue for the Saudis is all that money, and the peculiar institution that allows them to keep it, a combination of medieval monarchy and Wahhabi fundamentalism.
Look at Bahrain. The rising that was crushed there was not just Arab Spring. It was the Shiite majority, powerless and poor, being kept down by the wealthy Sunni minority Bogarting the oil and gas money.
This is a very old fashioned dispute, about repression by a wealthy few who mean to keep all the money.
For the Saudis, it is very few who mean to keep it all, a few thousand royals and the fundamentalist loons they buy off. The other Sunnis are more like poor whites in the Old South, just happy they are "better than" the Shiites. That is the real "humiliation" in play here.
This article errs by giving too much reality to what they say, ignoring the reality of money, power, repression, and all the dysfunction that led to 9/11 coming out of Saudi Arabia while they deny that and point at Shiites next door to a credulous Bush.
Iran is feared for being Shiite. Sunnis fear rise of Shiite power.
Why? It isn't some obscure sectarian thing. It is money and power of Sunni elites in their own countries.
In Saudi Arabia, Sunnis have all the money and power. Yet many Shiites live there. They live on the oil fields. They get none of that oil, nor any of the money nor power. The issue for the Saudis is all that money, and the peculiar institution that allows them to keep it, a combination of medieval monarchy and Wahhabi fundamentalism.
Look at Bahrain. The rising that was crushed there was not just Arab Spring. It was the Shiite majority, powerless and poor, being kept down by the wealthy Sunni minority Bogarting the oil and gas money.
This is a very old fashioned dispute, about repression by a wealthy few who mean to keep all the money.
For the Saudis, it is very few who mean to keep it all, a few thousand royals and the fundamentalist loons they buy off. The other Sunnis are more like poor whites in the Old South, just happy they are "better than" the Shiites. That is the real "humiliation" in play here.
This article errs by giving too much reality to what they say, ignoring the reality of money, power, repression, and all the dysfunction that led to 9/11 coming out of Saudi Arabia while they deny that and point at Shiites next door to a credulous Bush.
203
Well said, and to prove their Arab manhood, they are ganging up on the poorest of the Arab Country, Yemen
2
You are so wrong. Classically wrong.
You can’t fathom people’s religiosity and consequently misunderstand them.
You project your value system upon others and then analyze and explain their conduct with YOUR value system….
Social sciences are complex. All variables are at play simultaneously. You are ignoring - perhaps - the most important one because it’s not in YOUR value system. It doesn't matter whether they were indoctrinated into believing in God. It is a fact by now. By ignoring it you guarantee your failure to understand them.
Another mistake (you are not alone there) is the inability to recognize how Sykes-Picot is/was so unnatural to the Arab Middle East.
There was never a Trans-Jordanian people/nation. Trans Jordan was simply invented. Same idea with the Iraqi, Syrian and Lebanese peoples. Arabs inability to evolve into modernity is – at least partially – tied to this artificial division.
You can’t fathom people’s religiosity and consequently misunderstand them.
You project your value system upon others and then analyze and explain their conduct with YOUR value system….
Social sciences are complex. All variables are at play simultaneously. You are ignoring - perhaps - the most important one because it’s not in YOUR value system. It doesn't matter whether they were indoctrinated into believing in God. It is a fact by now. By ignoring it you guarantee your failure to understand them.
Another mistake (you are not alone there) is the inability to recognize how Sykes-Picot is/was so unnatural to the Arab Middle East.
There was never a Trans-Jordanian people/nation. Trans Jordan was simply invented. Same idea with the Iraqi, Syrian and Lebanese peoples. Arabs inability to evolve into modernity is – at least partially – tied to this artificial division.
5
Not so much angry Arabs or angry Sunnis as angry Arab Kings and Princes. Their sense of entitlement leads them to think that they should be rulers of the whole shebang. In reality it is Britain that put them in charge and US that keeps them there. We should cut them off.
8
The same country that has been at war with all Shiites for 1400+ years and actively supported Osama bin Laden as he planned and executed attacks against the U.S. and other western countries since the early 1990s is now dictating to us regarding peace in the Middle East.
Perhaps we should simply exit from the Middle East in its' entirety and let them sort it out; although the prognosis for any extension of tolerance and human rights in the area is quite poor since none of the factions are interested in anything but continuing the internecine warfare against each other and the concept of enhancing the standard of living for the citizenry.