Well I think this is a great idea .. if they want to come it's fine with me. A population from a war torn country would thrive with some help, not worrying about dying constantly. I think almost every comment so far was against this. But more Americans are moving out than moving in. The authors seem to have thought the process through pretty good here, at least a solid framework. Yes I am all for it.
1
Sounds great! They have done such a fine job with Syria.
25
Clear these two have never been to Detroit - or at least recently.
1. Much of the housing stock is not in move in condition - or really anywhere near it.
2. Not enough jobs for the current local both within the city and the metro area.
3. The school system could not handle that many kids who don't speak English - even if the ones that are currently enrolled.
4. The current medical/social services could not handle them.
5. Public services are already too thin - they could not handle the extra burdens.
6. I really think this could/would pit groups of people against each other even more so than they are now - both economically, socially, and probably some built -in historical gripes too..
7. "More important, both parties can agree that resettling destitute, innocent refugees is consistent with America’s moral and ethical commitments"--- oh please we/the people and government - don't even help own destitute, innocent.
1. Much of the housing stock is not in move in condition - or really anywhere near it.
2. Not enough jobs for the current local both within the city and the metro area.
3. The school system could not handle that many kids who don't speak English - even if the ones that are currently enrolled.
4. The current medical/social services could not handle them.
5. Public services are already too thin - they could not handle the extra burdens.
6. I really think this could/would pit groups of people against each other even more so than they are now - both economically, socially, and probably some built -in historical gripes too..
7. "More important, both parties can agree that resettling destitute, innocent refugees is consistent with America’s moral and ethical commitments"--- oh please we/the people and government - don't even help own destitute, innocent.
28
After you screen out the would-be terrorists and people with zero education who would not assimilate well at all, there are thousands of professionals in those camps - like doctors, entrepreneurs, engineers, mechanics and others who Detroit could use many of. Bring them on.
6
All right. I'm not anti-Muslim. But I am anti-Jihadi and I am anti-Sharia because Sharia law flies in the face of the U.S. Constitution. If the powers to be can figure out a way to absolutely/positively preclude these immigrants from being Jihadis or proponents of Sharia law I'm in favor. If not, I'm justifiably vehemently opposed!
8
I'm sure I'm not the only person who checked the date--April 1 again? Have I inadvertantly clicked on a humor site? Thank you non-Detroiters and non-Michiganders for your ridicule and/or intelligent critique of this idea.
12
So we did not get into enough trouble by "taking the battle to them", now we need to bring the battle to us? Europe is having a terrible time with their Muslim migration problems so let's follow in their folly? No, let's leave this centuries old battle to the confines of the Middle East and the decades, perhaps centuries more needed to come to resolution with the Persians and Arabs within the restraints of Islamic culture. I would rather spend our national energies assisting Americans who have been damaged by our ill conceived intrusions into this conflict - both military and civilians who have suffered from our ignorance and neglect. Yes, the plight of the Syrians is sad, but it is a battle that has raged longer than the U.S. has been in existence. It is utter hubris to even imagine we can fix this or that what we attempt will not have the consequences we imagine from our cultural standpoint.
19
Where do I start...first the authors threw in the racist canard that electing the first white mayor was the reason that Detroit started its comeback...then they suggest using HARP (Home Affordable Mortgage Program) to give money to refugees money to fix houses as if the 700,000 residents in Detroit are not deserving of assistance in finding and keeping decent places to live. Really,,,who are David Laitin and Marc Jahr, and why did they rate getting an Op-Ed page in the NYT to spew this ill thought out idea?
16
If we had any interest in Syrian refugees, we would start by offering residence to Syrian Christians, knowing they won't attempt to join ISIS and cause trouble.
But, no, US Government has no interest in helping Christians under attack around the world, because there are no "donors" pushing their agenda.
But, no, US Government has no interest in helping Christians under attack around the world, because there are no "donors" pushing their agenda.
18
I appreciate the humantarian desire to provide refugee to the thousands of Syrians fleeing the chaos US policy in middle east has created. I do not think offering preferential resettlement on the basis of ethnic background using federal funds would stand Constitutional review.
If our honest intention is to turn the massive numbers of refugees fleeing sectarian violence into a new immigrant class the offer of relocation to the United States would have to be extended to other ethnic groups such as Ethiopian, and Somalis drowning by the hundreds at sea attempting to reach saftey in Europe.
Let's no forget the thousands of undocumented Central Americans, primarily women and children, being detained by ICE under conditions the NY Times editorial staff equates to an American gulag. Wouldn't Central American women fleeing unchecked domestic violence in their native countries and their children also qualify as recipients of federally funded humanitarian relocation largesse?
Perhaps a few spaces in the New Detroit could be found for the thousands of homeless veterans in our country. Using federal funds to assist homeless Americans, especially those who served in our military, might be an equally valid humanitarian act as doing so for foreigners.
If our honest intention is to turn the massive numbers of refugees fleeing sectarian violence into a new immigrant class the offer of relocation to the United States would have to be extended to other ethnic groups such as Ethiopian, and Somalis drowning by the hundreds at sea attempting to reach saftey in Europe.
Let's no forget the thousands of undocumented Central Americans, primarily women and children, being detained by ICE under conditions the NY Times editorial staff equates to an American gulag. Wouldn't Central American women fleeing unchecked domestic violence in their native countries and their children also qualify as recipients of federally funded humanitarian relocation largesse?
Perhaps a few spaces in the New Detroit could be found for the thousands of homeless veterans in our country. Using federal funds to assist homeless Americans, especially those who served in our military, might be an equally valid humanitarian act as doing so for foreigners.
6
As a native Detroiter I haveothing against Syrian refugees, and certainly nothing against the many contributions immigrants from the Middle East have made to the economic and social fabric of the Detroit area, but it is amazing how often the proposed solution for Detroit's problems involves giving our city away to various groups and companies rather than addressing the issues that brought about the downfall in the first place.
Racial discrimination, redlining, failing underfunded education, and, more than anything, the mass disappearance of manufacturing jobs and the many living-wage ancillary jobs a manufacturing base provides, along with the resulting income inequalities, are among those issues. What Detroit needs more than anything else is money and jobs. An influx of population will probably help with those things, but a massive and responsible infusion of capital, and a wide move back towards economic policies that support making things and employing people here in the U.S., will do so much more.
Racial discrimination, redlining, failing underfunded education, and, more than anything, the mass disappearance of manufacturing jobs and the many living-wage ancillary jobs a manufacturing base provides, along with the resulting income inequalities, are among those issues. What Detroit needs more than anything else is money and jobs. An influx of population will probably help with those things, but a massive and responsible infusion of capital, and a wide move back towards economic policies that support making things and employing people here in the U.S., will do so much more.
15
It surely makes some sense. A lack of people living in the abandoned buildings merely attracts crack addicts. The immigrants would clean them up, and that would create a need for basic services, which would put some to work. And then, as the economic "multiplier effect" (working people spend money, creating more jobs) takes place, there would be an improvemeant--at least over the no man's land we have now. And hey, some of these people would even be paying taxes.
Surely, some will look at this as all pie-in-the-sky nonsense; but hey, what have we got to lose by trying something new? Otherwise, municipal services have to be used to patrol; , clean, rodent control , potential fires (often set), etc.
Right now, Detroit is probably a great expense. So, bringing thankful people into occupy, clean, fix-up, re-construct and basically bring the Motor City back to life. Over the years, we have brought many, many immigrants from all over the world, and we have benefitted from it. Tell me, why not do it again?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Surely, some will look at this as all pie-in-the-sky nonsense; but hey, what have we got to lose by trying something new? Otherwise, municipal services have to be used to patrol; , clean, rodent control , potential fires (often set), etc.
Right now, Detroit is probably a great expense. So, bringing thankful people into occupy, clean, fix-up, re-construct and basically bring the Motor City back to life. Over the years, we have brought many, many immigrants from all over the world, and we have benefitted from it. Tell me, why not do it again?
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
1
Setting up a Little-Syria (or any other Little-nation) is a bad idea because it promotes the idea that they can live isolated without buying into the American mainstream. This can brew extremism that can go unnoticed until it blows up. The U.S. has been doing better than Europe with immigrants partly because we force them to integrate more than they do in Europe. Dispersing the Syrian refugees in various parts of the U.S is a better plan than placing them all in Detroit.
16
Not all Muslims are terrorists.
Almost all terrorists in the world today are Muslims.
This Detroit proposal is insane.
There is no separation of Mosque and State in Islam as Christ embedded it into Christianity when he said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's."
Even with that, from the mouth of Jesus himself, keeping antidisestablishmentarianism from taking over in the United States has been very nearly impossible.
Islam needs a Renaissance and then a Reformation and then an Age of Reason and then an Enlightenment and then grow its own democracies.
In the meantime we should be doing everything we can to get off oil and get out of the Middle East. Democracy should not be a suicide pact.
Almost all terrorists in the world today are Muslims.
This Detroit proposal is insane.
There is no separation of Mosque and State in Islam as Christ embedded it into Christianity when he said "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's."
Even with that, from the mouth of Jesus himself, keeping antidisestablishmentarianism from taking over in the United States has been very nearly impossible.
Islam needs a Renaissance and then a Reformation and then an Age of Reason and then an Enlightenment and then grow its own democracies.
In the meantime we should be doing everything we can to get off oil and get out of the Middle East. Democracy should not be a suicide pact.
31
i have to say this is one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard of.
Just how do you think the disadvantaged people of Detroit would feel if we brought in 50,000 immigrants and support them with government housing, food, education, medical care, etc when they are languishing in Detroit with no jobs to go to, poor housing and little hope for the future?
Am I reading the Onion or the NYT?
If you think Baltimore was ripe for unrest, just wait. I think we should worry about our own citizens before letting the flood gates open. We can't even agree on what to do with the immigrants already here from Mexico and Central America.
Just how do you think the disadvantaged people of Detroit would feel if we brought in 50,000 immigrants and support them with government housing, food, education, medical care, etc when they are languishing in Detroit with no jobs to go to, poor housing and little hope for the future?
Am I reading the Onion or the NYT?
If you think Baltimore was ripe for unrest, just wait. I think we should worry about our own citizens before letting the flood gates open. We can't even agree on what to do with the immigrants already here from Mexico and Central America.
42
Even I, a blatant aging humanist can see flaws with this plan.(I once had a similar fantasy of displaced Tibetans populating the high deserts of the American West, where climate is similar.)This has been mentioned, but what about the queue of other displaced ethnic and national groups? Who is more deserving? It seems clear that millions of people are struggling worldwide. If I could, I would advocate for resettlement as close to homelands as possible with every conceivable agency contributing to wellbeing.At first these agencies would provide the basics of survival, but soon teach sustenance; desalination, agriculture, sustainable livelihoods and coexistence.I'm serious, folks.It seems like the four horsemen are arriving everywhere at the same time.We better do something.
7
Detroit was once one of America's great cities because it was the center of the automobile industry. Having lost that status, it is now a shell of its former self. Enticing a group of desperate people to immigrate there will not restore its former glory.
8
I think 50,000 Syrian refugees should be settled in the same town/county as Prof. Laitin and all of his poli sci colleagues. After all, they would be most understanding of them, wouldn't they?
14
This is an interesting idea. At this point the Syrian refugee crisis is going to require a lot of thinking outside the box, so the more proposals like this the better, even if most aren't advisable in the end. But first we should investigate the substantial problems Sweden has had with its very generous policies resettling Syrian refugees, to learn lessons about what to expect. The war and violence they flee sometimes follow them when they relocate, and we need to be clear-eyed about that reality, even as we look for durable, humanitarian solutions for this beleaguered population.
1
Only people with no responsibility for the consequences could put forward such an idiotic recommendation.
17
This has to be one of the most ridiculous and hair-brained ideas I have seen hatched on the NY Times pages! No thanks folks, we don't need to invite more difficult problems into our nation. I am almost speechless.
16
This is a great idea! The great melting pot should take in way more refugees including boatloads of refugees from Myanmar. It will strengthen our economy and relieve refugee migration pressures which lead to conflict!
4
Don't try giving this refugees-are-the answer pitch to Minnesotans (population 5,500,000) where, according to U.S. census information in 2014, there are 33,000 Somali refugees.
Since 2007, at least 22 Somali-American men have traveled from Minnesota to their East African homeland to fight with the terrorist organization Al-Shabab. Ten jihadists have either reached the Middle East and ISIS or been arrested before they could board planes.
And it's not only home-grown terrorists. For starters, google Mustafa crime ring and Salama Child Care Center fraud.
Since 2007, at least 22 Somali-American men have traveled from Minnesota to their East African homeland to fight with the terrorist organization Al-Shabab. Ten jihadists have either reached the Middle East and ISIS or been arrested before they could board planes.
And it's not only home-grown terrorists. For starters, google Mustafa crime ring and Salama Child Care Center fraud.
12
"[T]here is no evidence to suggest that the Detroit area is a powder keg of anti-immigrant sentiment." No? Well, bring the Syrians here to take over Detroit and watch what happens.
9
It is pathetic that in this country, where 80%+ of the people descend from immigrants, that the descendants of those same immigrants have the audacity to typecast new immigrants and blame them for their problems. Also most of these same people are descended from refugees of various kinds, came here with no visa, green card, or kind of preapproval. They came here with all kinds of stereotypes- Irish were drunks- fleeing a famine. Jews were communists- fleeing pogroms. Italians were not really white and were anarchists- fleeing destitute poverty. And when Middle Easterners flee terrorism and dictatorship, and Mexicans and Central Americans flee gang violence, they are labled as terrorists and gangsters by the descendants who use cable TV and the internet as the soap box of bigotry. It's disgusting. I'm the third generation of Italian immigrants and I welcome all others who want to come to America and contribute, I don't care who you worship or what color your skin, because I know the nonsense my great-grandparents and even my grandparents took on so that I could be the first in family to graduate college and progress in society. Everytime I see that my fellow Americans don't share that attitude, I will condemn them for being the racist pigs they are, and the bad Americans they are. It's a disgrace.
5
Although the author of this article is perhaps more optimistic than the readers, this is a terrible idea. We're already dealing with the endless tides of illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America, both of which are not contributing a large set of positives to our cities and economy. Instead they're here to take away jobs from American citizens, and even worse, take advantage of social services, resources and tax dollars that should ONLY be directed to help the Americans who were born here. If Americans, or legal immigrants are not first in line, the reaction is always the same: anger against illegals taking away American jobs and benefits. Compassion has to be viewed as something that is applied when the refugee situation is correctly evaluated, rather than just deciding that these desperate people need help now and we have the ability as a nation to do so. But we're already saddled with 5 million illegal immigrants who, in my opinion should all be deported. It's time for this country to start taking care of its' own. America is NOT obligated to be the savior of all the victims of unfortunate situations in their countries. If they all expect to be taken in by countries in Europe and America and the like, that huge burden will obviously not be sustainable. And with no long term solution in place, the situation will eventually become too large to monitor, not to mention that surely many current or future ISIS members will end up on our soil.
9
Detroit has jobs. The people who used to do them left town, and won't come back until the place is rebuilt.
Meanwhile , the truth is, Is this really a good idea traumatized Refugees puttingin Detroit? Has anybody seen recently the Detroit, This is like little bit putting them in Warsaw ghetto like. Disperse placement is still much better.
1
Minneapolis/St. Paul rolled out the Welcome mat to Somali refugees, and now their major export is jihadis for ISIS. Enclaves are never a good idea. Importing people with a cultural bend toward religious violence has proven to be a bad idea. I know! Let's put two bad ideas together, step back, and see what happens!
17
Are you kidding? This is hardly what Detroit needs, a nedt of vipers. At least their sons will have an easy connection back to the Middle East from the Detroit airport to participate in jihad. Their brethren from Somalia living in Minnesota have a more difficult route.
Why does no one care for the Azidis, Druze, and Bahais who have been expelled, tortured, and slaughtered by not particularly extremist Muslims?
Why does no one care for the Azidis, Druze, and Bahais who have been expelled, tortured, and slaughtered by not particularly extremist Muslims?
10
Marrying American women would be a great idea, but I like the idea of resettling them in Detroit better. The city needs population, and it's been shown that immigrants will build and be productive.
1
1). Resettle outsourced American jobs from China back into Detroit and Michigan. This will take care of our socioeconomic issue.
2). Work with Middle Eastern nations to accept Syrian refugees. Once Assad falls and ISIS is defeated, Syria will need its own citizens to rebuild their country. This will take care of the humanitarian issue.
2). Work with Middle Eastern nations to accept Syrian refugees. Once Assad falls and ISIS is defeated, Syria will need its own citizens to rebuild their country. This will take care of the humanitarian issue.
24
"...What confidence can we have that traumatized war refugees can be transformed into budding American entrepreneurs? We cannot know for sure..."
The Patriot Act, the absolute shredding of parts of the Bill of Rights, was implemented because of the threat of extremist terrorism. In particular, Islamic extremism. We surrendered our rights for security. And it turns out the Government wasn't satisfied with that. The US Government did what governments have done since time immemorial, it overreached. It grabbed for more power than was written into the unnecessarily broad extension of Government powers that the law allowed.
And what is being promoted by Mr. Laitin and Jahr? The importation of the fertile soil for more extremism. And the setting of the stage for more government overreach.
As if the Syrian tragedy were not home grown to Syria.
As if the Syrian plight were not a product of the Syrian culture.
As if the Syrian Civil War were not one muslim fighting another muslim over muslim culture, muslim mores, and muslim power.
As if the torn urban landscape of Detroit would not make a dandy, genuine
battlefield for worldwide jihad, like the cultured, modern city of Damascus.
Detroit as ground zero for nationwide martial law.
As if the US Government would not step in and deprive all American citizens of most of our Constitutional protections in order to provide safety from the
endless, violent conflict written into fundamentalist interpretations of the Holy Quran.
The Patriot Act, the absolute shredding of parts of the Bill of Rights, was implemented because of the threat of extremist terrorism. In particular, Islamic extremism. We surrendered our rights for security. And it turns out the Government wasn't satisfied with that. The US Government did what governments have done since time immemorial, it overreached. It grabbed for more power than was written into the unnecessarily broad extension of Government powers that the law allowed.
And what is being promoted by Mr. Laitin and Jahr? The importation of the fertile soil for more extremism. And the setting of the stage for more government overreach.
As if the Syrian tragedy were not home grown to Syria.
As if the Syrian plight were not a product of the Syrian culture.
As if the Syrian Civil War were not one muslim fighting another muslim over muslim culture, muslim mores, and muslim power.
As if the torn urban landscape of Detroit would not make a dandy, genuine
battlefield for worldwide jihad, like the cultured, modern city of Damascus.
Detroit as ground zero for nationwide martial law.
As if the US Government would not step in and deprive all American citizens of most of our Constitutional protections in order to provide safety from the
endless, violent conflict written into fundamentalist interpretations of the Holy Quran.
8
Perhaps it is time we turn the immigration spigot off. That the rest of world's population is overrunning is no excuse to accept their excess nor to explode our own population either. Robust and prudent border control is the best way to go in the 21st century. We have yet to see the true consequences of overpopulation, but we will.
12
thank you for a very interesting article. one statistic near the end is interesting. 2/3 of our local arab-american community voted for bush in 2000. I don't doubt the statistic but I am confident that would no longer be true.
I am a former Dearborn area attorney and I have had some involvement in state and local politics. the local arab-american community is pro-business and supports traditional family values and that lines up with much of what republicans claim to be about. back in 2000, many community leaders and attorneys were lined up with the republican party.
my perception is that has changed. not because the arab-american community has changed, but because the republican base has changed. the republican base is anti-immigrant, and anti-arab in particular. in doesn't matter if local arab-americans are Christian or not, small businessmen or not, pro traditional family values or not. the current arab-american community is rejected by the republican base because they are Arabic. the increasingly shrinking republican tent has no room for arab-americans, and everybody knows it.
there is no way the local community would vote 2/3 for a bush in 2016, and that's the republicans own fault.
I am a former Dearborn area attorney and I have had some involvement in state and local politics. the local arab-american community is pro-business and supports traditional family values and that lines up with much of what republicans claim to be about. back in 2000, many community leaders and attorneys were lined up with the republican party.
my perception is that has changed. not because the arab-american community has changed, but because the republican base has changed. the republican base is anti-immigrant, and anti-arab in particular. in doesn't matter if local arab-americans are Christian or not, small businessmen or not, pro traditional family values or not. the current arab-american community is rejected by the republican base because they are Arabic. the increasingly shrinking republican tent has no room for arab-americans, and everybody knows it.
there is no way the local community would vote 2/3 for a bush in 2016, and that's the republicans own fault.
11
1) As ACJ observes, & as in biology generally, diversity is highly desirable (a point Darwin continually stressed). Yet our species evolved tribalistically & still has that tendency.
2) As the CIA 2014 fertility rates show https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/21...
except for Israel, France & NZ, Western developed countries are below population zero (roughly, 2.1)--even Catholic Italy is 1.42, Spain 1.48--while in Asia Japan is 1.4 & S. Korea is 1.25.
2) As the CIA 2014 fertility rates show https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/21...
except for Israel, France & NZ, Western developed countries are below population zero (roughly, 2.1)--even Catholic Italy is 1.42, Spain 1.48--while in Asia Japan is 1.4 & S. Korea is 1.25.
Let my Muslim brothers and sisters taste real freedom. The speaks of an Arab enclave. No, I say. Let us assimilate and marry American women and men. I know a nice Polish girl in Hamtramack.
8
A failed attempt at benevolence. Take some refugees from a war-torn country and settle them in a city that is all but dead, just so the US can't say it didn't do anything.
7
I suppose Arab refugees by a few thousand a year are admitted into the USA.
The exact figures per country would be available. Fifty thousand is substantial
and take tremendous domestic political courage.
A USA version of European nationalistic reaction is predictable. Marine
La Penn receiving a majority/plurality vote for President of France is being
expected by many.
I am not optimistic. Reality is too difficult to overcome/transcend. I can not
envision the people of Michigan accepting this concept.
Steve Jobs' birth father is Syrian-American, and that is a relevant
fact for cogitation.
The exact figures per country would be available. Fifty thousand is substantial
and take tremendous domestic political courage.
A USA version of European nationalistic reaction is predictable. Marine
La Penn receiving a majority/plurality vote for President of France is being
expected by many.
I am not optimistic. Reality is too difficult to overcome/transcend. I can not
envision the people of Michigan accepting this concept.
Steve Jobs' birth father is Syrian-American, and that is a relevant
fact for cogitation.
3
Why not relocate Syrians to rural Michigan? What makes Detroit so special?
Why just Syrians? What makes Syrians so special?
1
This is a very worthy article.
I plan on printing this on a large paper and laminating it so the next time one of my liberal colleges suggest one of their similar utopian asinine fantasies I can roll it up and bop them over the head.
I plan on printing this on a large paper and laminating it so the next time one of my liberal colleges suggest one of their similar utopian asinine fantasies I can roll it up and bop them over the head.
19
We have great suffering in this country too, apart from our massive enclaves of poverty - both urban and rural. California alone will have displaced people as wells run dry. How about relocation incentives for Americans who are displaced by disaster? Charity begins at home.
17
I've heard a lot of stupid ideas in my time, but this takes the cake.
28
Why not settle them in the silicon valley? The warm climate would be familiar, and there are jobs and schools to offer necessary language and other training for integration. The billionaires there could also chip in with the initial costs of settlement if a fundraising is organized. It will also save money from having to keep the settlers trapped in depressed Detroit.
6
Let's do it.
Detroit lacks enough of a population to make offering services efficient. There's not enough police, nor is there enough people to properly staff the fire department. Even utilities have been shut off to major parts of the city because of the sparseness of the population.
Bring them in as pioneers to settle was is certainly a desolate and forbidding land. Schools will reopen, utilities will be restored, taxes will be paid.
America needs a new inspiring story...this could be it.
Detroit lacks enough of a population to make offering services efficient. There's not enough police, nor is there enough people to properly staff the fire department. Even utilities have been shut off to major parts of the city because of the sparseness of the population.
Bring them in as pioneers to settle was is certainly a desolate and forbidding land. Schools will reopen, utilities will be restored, taxes will be paid.
America needs a new inspiring story...this could be it.
7
Actually, this is a really good idea. The Detroit area has long been a melting pot for various ethnic groups. The existence of a strong Arab-American presence in the area will ease what is surely a difficult transition for these refugees. The influx of new residents and accompanying dollars can help a challenged metropolitan area economically. What's not to like?
4
I think it's a great idea. Forgive me for speaking in generalities, but hard to respond without doing so here. Generally speaking, Syrians are educated, smart, industrious, hard working, and family focussed people. Everything you'd want to infuse in a community such as Detroit. And even if this isn't' true, we'd have the right to admit only those Syrians who are. Moreover, economies in countries such as Syria are built on small entrepreneurs. They don't need multi-national corporations to build a thriving economy. And yes, the immigrant spirit infused in many of Americas ailing cities, which Americans with choices run from, would do wonders for those communities. Finally, we need not worry about assimilation. It just happens in America. We are great at this. In America, assimilation is a two-way street where, more often then not, the best of the American and immigrant cultures become American.
1
Hey David. You've had some good ideas in your career. Personally, I would welcome Syrians in Michigan. But Palo Alto has all those empty hills that could become great refugee camps; great infrastructure and service sector; great schools. Go for it!
11
Is there any evidence that Syrians fleeing their civil war want to move to the US? I watch the stories on my channel and I don't see people talking about getting visas. I see them talking about trying to go back home once the war ends.
As for the idea that a city of 700-thousand people needs to be "repopulated," I cannot even begin to express how offensive this is to the people who already live in Detroit.
As for the idea that a city of 700-thousand people needs to be "repopulated," I cannot even begin to express how offensive this is to the people who already live in Detroit.
17
I think the idea with "repopulating" isn't, or at least shouldn't be, to replace those who are there but rather to take the place of those who left. Detroit is a huge city, geographically speaking, and like someone else pointed out the population isn't big enough to support services over such an area. The options are to raise taxes that people already can't pay, compel residents to give up the homes they and their families have lived in for decades to concentrate inwards, or encourage population growth.
So a Stanford professor is advocating that we bring in refugees and put them somewhere far away from Palo Alto, CA? How novel. And for jobs, Professor Laitin, how about we employ them getting the high speed rail project through all the NIMBYs at Stanford on its way from Stanford gentrified San Francisco to ignored immigrant Modesto?
I have zero objections to resettling 50,000 Syrian refugees in the U.S. But instead of marketing it, and pretending that somehow we can do all this at an eventual profit, and cheerleading all the benefits, while decrying the "stringent oversight requirements" of using government funding as it was intended, and pretending that it all works out with net gain, and pretending that getting the government to sanction loans isn't a subsidy to the banks and not the refugees, I have a very novel idea that never occurs to the folks on Palm Drive.
How about just resettling 50,000 Syrians because it's the right thing to do, because we can afford it, because we should do our bit, and forking out the very real costs to genuinely and properly resettle the war traumatized of the world? They can be very expensive, some of them. Their psychological wounds can be very deep. They didn't spend their time learning English and honing workplace skills to make it in America because they aren't the ones who decided they would have to move.
Or is doing something because it's the right thing to do, and not because Stanford can find a way to market it, not on the table?
I have zero objections to resettling 50,000 Syrian refugees in the U.S. But instead of marketing it, and pretending that somehow we can do all this at an eventual profit, and cheerleading all the benefits, while decrying the "stringent oversight requirements" of using government funding as it was intended, and pretending that it all works out with net gain, and pretending that getting the government to sanction loans isn't a subsidy to the banks and not the refugees, I have a very novel idea that never occurs to the folks on Palm Drive.
How about just resettling 50,000 Syrians because it's the right thing to do, because we can afford it, because we should do our bit, and forking out the very real costs to genuinely and properly resettle the war traumatized of the world? They can be very expensive, some of them. Their psychological wounds can be very deep. They didn't spend their time learning English and honing workplace skills to make it in America because they aren't the ones who decided they would have to move.
Or is doing something because it's the right thing to do, and not because Stanford can find a way to market it, not on the table?
2
"What confidence can we have that traumatized war refugees can be transformed into budding American entrepreneurs? We cannot know for sure."
So, forget about it.
So, forget about it.
8
I'm tempted to go through every comment from someone who actually LIVES IN DETROIT and like their comment just on principle because he or she LIVES THERE. Amanda from Detroit - if I could like your comment 7,000 times, I would!
Just like I always say "If you didn't vote, you can't complain". If you don't live in the city, don't dream up some policy/program that will affect both the current residents and newcomers.
In the 1970s, my family hosted a Vietnamese mother and her son (the Boat People) - the mom was a very delicate, once very wealthy woman used to servants waiting on her hand and foot and had no interest in raising her 5 year old son. That went over really well with my mom who had four children of her own!
Just like I always say "If you didn't vote, you can't complain". If you don't live in the city, don't dream up some policy/program that will affect both the current residents and newcomers.
In the 1970s, my family hosted a Vietnamese mother and her son (the Boat People) - the mom was a very delicate, once very wealthy woman used to servants waiting on her hand and foot and had no interest in raising her 5 year old son. That went over really well with my mom who had four children of her own!
9
Actually, Syrians have a millennia-long history of very successful merchant diaspora and small-business entrepreneurship. They're famous for it. This sounds a little wacky, but hey-- maybe not all that bad an idea.
2
Absolutley not. Enough already. Not one Syrian for the tax payer to support. The big argument in the country is income inequality and low paying jobs. How are these Syrians going to revitalize Detroit. What liberal fantasy.
9
Even Stanford makes mistakes---like this guy.
Back to your Immigration Lab, Professor.
Back to your Immigration Lab, Professor.
14
I like to think that all ideas are worthy of mention. But this is, really, the dumbest, stupidest, most asinine thing I've ever heard of! Really?
19
In today's editorial, the NYT calls for an end to to detention of illegals crossing from Mexico. Here it calls for settling hundreds of thousands of muslims in Detroit. That has worked well worked well for France, hasn't it?
I am a son of (legal) immigrants, a lifelong liberal, and hardly prone to lunatic conspiracy theories. However, one cannot help but wonder what motivates the steady drumbeat from the left demanding open borders to the rest of the world. Continuing disintegration of the Middle East and Africa, continuing criminalization and environmental degradation of Latin America and and overpopulation of Asia will produce ever higher numbers of desperate people trying to get into Europe and North America. Western society cannot survive a tsunami of third world people bringing the attitudes, values, and behaviors that have devastated their home countries. And no, that devastation is not our fault.
I am a son of (legal) immigrants, a lifelong liberal, and hardly prone to lunatic conspiracy theories. However, one cannot help but wonder what motivates the steady drumbeat from the left demanding open borders to the rest of the world. Continuing disintegration of the Middle East and Africa, continuing criminalization and environmental degradation of Latin America and and overpopulation of Asia will produce ever higher numbers of desperate people trying to get into Europe and North America. Western society cannot survive a tsunami of third world people bringing the attitudes, values, and behaviors that have devastated their home countries. And no, that devastation is not our fault.
21
I urge the author of this article to first turn to any Native American reservation and offer its people every bit of help we've got. Although I'm not sure that Detroit comes under the category of "help."
8
I live here and we are coming back thank you. The Arab population here has added much to the area, but the main core of their businesses are fruit markets, restaurants, gas stations and party stores. I really don't think we have room for anymore. Plus just to drop a whole mass of fundamentalist Muslims on us, no thanks, we have enough problems to solve around here. How about North Dakota it's pretty empty.
14
Really stupid, of course; if money is to be spent, spend it on the current residents and taxpayers of Detroit. Leave the Sunni-Shia massacres overseas.
13
They will no more revitalize Detroit than any other group that came before them and then left for better neighborhoods. They will come here with an intact culture and family, work hard, make their stake, and then move up the economic ladder, leaving behind the minority single parents and culture of poverty they find here. The solution is to change the social anarchy already here. When the Syrians get here, they will quickly decide they want no part of any celebration of "diversity," put bars up on their windows, work hard, get their kids into college, and move on. This idea is fatuous. They won't come here to join the demonstrations against the police.
6
Why just Syrians? How about Palestinians? How about residents of slums in Brazil? How about anybody from all nations who feel marginalized?
Really?
Really?
11
the comments saying syrian refugees are not a US problem/obligation are ridiculous. of course they should; humanitarian aide should always be our problem, that's our whole thing. (especially in a region we have been structurally destabilizing since wwi). obviously, this article is written from the realist right and couches the situation in terms of human capital. if that's the best way to make the argument, then that's the best way to make the argument. amoral means can achieve moral ends.
the idea intrigues me. not sure how a social disaster like what happened in detroit after the great migration of poc from the south could be prevented. but if it was...
the idea intrigues me. not sure how a social disaster like what happened in detroit after the great migration of poc from the south could be prevented. but if it was...
2
I'm pretty liberal and open-minded, but this is not a great idea, for obvious reasons.
9
Article fails in all of its seams - of which (above) there are many.
The piece is utterly without relevance to the needs of Detroit itself.
The piece is utterly without relevance to the needs of Detroit itself.
9
the great migration in detroit resulted in poc and immigrants forced into cramped, disease-ridden, crime-filled neighborhoods by de facto segregation in the real estate market. henry ford & his rich, white, automaker friends literally remade the city government and elected ford's book keeper as mayor.
all while there were civil rights statues prohibiting segregation in public places.
using that episode in detroit's history to support this argument really hurt it.
all while there were civil rights statues prohibiting segregation in public places.
using that episode in detroit's history to support this argument really hurt it.
2
Aren't there a lot of Americans who are homeless because of bad economic times, who could benefit from moving to Detroit and starting over, with loans from the government? Why import problems from other places? What makes Syrians so special that they would get preference over other people from similar circumstances. Yes, there is a large Muslim community there already, but that doesn't mean there should be a special program to increase it with foreigners.
Why would anyone think that Syrians are better suited to improving Detroit than anyone else?
There should be no special program to import immigrants when there are plenty of Americans of all ethnic and racial groups who could benefit from amy program that was designed to help the Syrians. We have enough disadvantaged citizens in our country looking for an opportunity to improve their lot, Don't squander it by importing problems from elsewhere. Let our citizens get the first crack at the helping hand that Detroit has to offer.
Why would anyone think that Syrians are better suited to improving Detroit than anyone else?
There should be no special program to import immigrants when there are plenty of Americans of all ethnic and racial groups who could benefit from amy program that was designed to help the Syrians. We have enough disadvantaged citizens in our country looking for an opportunity to improve their lot, Don't squander it by importing problems from elsewhere. Let our citizens get the first crack at the helping hand that Detroit has to offer.
12
Settling for Detroit as an Islamist enclave is, to say the least, NOT very smart.
The US has always thumped its chest for integrating everybody. If one does not look very hard, he might miss aborigines, blacks who had languished 130 years in peonage after emancipation, and rural whites, mainly in Appalachia. But you can see them living in self stocked junk yards even in California.
The US needs to do better at integrating its own have-nots, not in encouraging uneducated, newcomer have-nots
The US has always thumped its chest for integrating everybody. If one does not look very hard, he might miss aborigines, blacks who had languished 130 years in peonage after emancipation, and rural whites, mainly in Appalachia. But you can see them living in self stocked junk yards even in California.
The US needs to do better at integrating its own have-nots, not in encouraging uneducated, newcomer have-nots
11
I moved to Dearborn, Michigan in 1960 and lived there until 2009. During that time I saw a rundown decaying portion of the city taken over and rehabilitated by a massive influx of Arab immigrants. They refurbished homes, opened new businesses in abandoned shop fronts and created a vibrant and thriving community that revitalized the entire city. Over the years they have assimilated and moved out into the entire metropolitan Detroit area. This process took many years and was not without problems and cultural conflicts but it worked over time and was good for the city and the Detroit area. I had many Arab neighbors over the years, some good, some less so - like any other ethnic population. During the years I lived there, Dearborn went from Irish to Polish to Italian to Arabic and always there was trepidation on the part of locals as the next group moved in. People are people. Let me add that I only moved out of Dearborn because I lost my job and my home of 24 years as a result of the Great Recession.
25
This is a terrible idea. What do you propose that these Syrian refugees do to support themselves? English speaking American citizens have been leaving Detroit in droves in large part because there are no employment opportunities. What will poorly educated refugees who do not speak English do? In addition, the Arab population you speak of "in Detroit" is entirely suburban, and not Syrian but rather a mix of Lebanese, Iraqis, Yemenis and others. Syrians resettled in the city of Detroit would find themselves in a shabby, alien world with little to no economic opportunity. I expect they would quickly do what the last three generations of able Detroiters have done: leave the rotting corpse of the city in their rearview mirrors.
9
The idea of settling Syrians in Detroit will be upsetting to some and potentially divisive politically. But at its core, it's brilliant. When I grew I in Detroit in the 60's on the east side, neighborhoods were a diverse enclave of recent immigrants. With them, they brought a strong work ethic, a strong drive to set up their children for success, and a self-reliance that drove small business creation. Van Dyke avenue of old was small shop after small shop, some living in the apartments above the various bakeries and businesses. Hamtramck is now not only a long-time bastion of Polish Americans but it is also home to a growing Yemeni community. This is Detroit's path to becoming a thriving urban city again--"bring me your poor, tired, huddled masses, yearning to be free!"
3
For the love of God, can we please stop with these grand ideas to save the world from people who work at such places as the Immigration and Integration Policy Lab at Stanford University and the New York City Housing Development Corporation.
Do they not know that it is people such as them that are the cause of the problems that plague cities such as Detroit?
Do they not know that it is people such as them that are the cause of the problems that plague cities such as Detroit?
12
Dear God, I'm going to try and forget I saw this nonsense.
17
How many millions of Americans have no jobs, no home, and no government assistance?
Are they less worthy of receiving government aid than Syrian refugees?
Why don't we "resettle" 100,000 homeless and jobless American families to Detroit, give them money, education, a roof, food on the table and a good shot at the American Dream? Oh wait, that would be "socialism", right...
This article is so badly thought out that it is unworthy of the NYT editorial section.
Are they less worthy of receiving government aid than Syrian refugees?
Why don't we "resettle" 100,000 homeless and jobless American families to Detroit, give them money, education, a roof, food on the table and a good shot at the American Dream? Oh wait, that would be "socialism", right...
This article is so badly thought out that it is unworthy of the NYT editorial section.
12
Why would you inflict Detroit on the Syrians? Haven't they suffered enough already?
7
Ann, I invite you to come here and go on a tour and see that you are being ignorant and not funny.
An interesting idea. I wonder what the current residents of Detroit think. Trying to accomplish something like this without the buy-in of the local African American community would be a bad idea.
5
A well-intentioned, but half-baked idea. What makes the authors think that the current residents would welcome "settlement" in what they rightfully think of as their home? And what makes the authors think that the Syrian settlers would be bound to stay in Detroit?
The better solution is to work to make Detroit a place very attractive to immigrants and citizens. Dearborn has welcomed people from the Middle East for decades, and it's a great community. But they most assuredly did not come in as "settlors".
The better solution is to work to make Detroit a place very attractive to immigrants and citizens. Dearborn has welcomed people from the Middle East for decades, and it's a great community. But they most assuredly did not come in as "settlors".
2
What is this, the thirtieth click bait unbelievably stupid op-ed in a row?
We want a new op- ed editor.
We want a new op- ed editor.
11
There are 27 Muslims countries in the world, we don't need to become number 28.
14
Great idea. But I would change "Syrians" to "illegal immigrants". All 11 million of them. Offer them a delapidated home in Detroit, or in any other blighted American city. But they would have to agree to renovate and improve the property, and then they could own it, and even throw in citizenship for them. Solve twi big problems with one solution. Wonderful! But it makes too much sense for politicians to grasp the idea. (sigh)
5
This is a as bad an idea as it gets. tThis is a bad idea not because of the idea of resettling refugees, but because to become an American means to embrace our culture and language and yes, our shared core beliefs, and that goal is hampered by concentrating refugees into one city, Detroit, and because it is blighted. Most refugees from Syria would make good Americans.
6
If there is one other major reason besides active and sleeper cells of violent terrorists not to allow Muslim Syrians into this country, it is the following:
ADL Global Index: Anti-Semitism by Region, 53,000 + interviewed.
The highest concentration of respondents holding anti-Semitic attitudes was found in the West Bank and Gaza, where anti-Semitic attitudes, at 93 percent of those interviewed, are pervasive throughout society. The Middle East and North African countries are second, (“MENA”), where nearly three-quarters of respondents, 74 percent of those polled, agreed with a majority of the anti-Semitic stereotypes that comprise the 11-question index. Non-MENA countries have an average index score of 23 percent.
ADL Global Index: Anti-Semitism by Region, 53,000 + interviewed.
The highest concentration of respondents holding anti-Semitic attitudes was found in the West Bank and Gaza, where anti-Semitic attitudes, at 93 percent of those interviewed, are pervasive throughout society. The Middle East and North African countries are second, (“MENA”), where nearly three-quarters of respondents, 74 percent of those polled, agreed with a majority of the anti-Semitic stereotypes that comprise the 11-question index. Non-MENA countries have an average index score of 23 percent.
6
A large refugee influx is a structured, subsidized process in the short term. In the long run outcomes are beneficial, as we have seen in the history of our country. Why single out Syria, when there are other groups that are suffering due to poverty or warfare or both? ? Nepal? Bangladesh? Sierra Leone or Liberia whose economies are devastated and governments less effective?
And even for many who live in the US... Let's think about being as welcoming of Americans moving within the US to Detroit, as we may be prepared to be for incoming refugees.
Let's think about relocating refugees as groups into a diverse mix of cities, including bustling and prosperous ones.
And even for many who live in the US... Let's think about being as welcoming of Americans moving within the US to Detroit, as we may be prepared to be for incoming refugees.
Let's think about relocating refugees as groups into a diverse mix of cities, including bustling and prosperous ones.
3
Fatal flaw in accepting refugees is..., it's inherently cruel to the others who are not accepted in to US.
And no, US cannot accept every single refugee.
And no, US cannot accept every single refugee.
Because we cannot do everything, we must do nothing? What kind of logic is that?
Because what Detroit and the country *really* needs is tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of uneducated, unskilled, religious fundamentalists with refugee status, which entitles them to welfare, food stamps, free housing and medical care?
Because that has worked out so well in every civilized country that tried this?
Because that has worked out so well in every civilized country that tried this?
15
Very bad idea. We should hep our own citizens first and next open doors to neighboring states on our continent with whom we share a history. Why is there never never a call in the media for Arab states that can well afford it to accept immigration from the co-religionist refugees in the area???
10
Some people complain that letting in thousands of Syrian refugees would simply displace suffering people already living in Detroit. Not to worry! We can just ship those suffering Detroiters to Syria -- that should work.
Of course, we can't relocate all of those Syrians in Detroit, nor all of those Detroiters in Syria. We need to save a few for Palo Alto and Manhattan, where these two authors live.
Of course, we can't relocate all of those Syrians in Detroit, nor all of those Detroiters in Syria. We need to save a few for Palo Alto and Manhattan, where these two authors live.
7
Sadly, the authors reinforce the notion that academics and bureaucrats are out of touch with reality. There are so many things wrong with this idea that one hardly knows where to start. So I won't. Many other commenters have detailed the delusions very well.
9
Remarkably bad idea steeped in what can only be described as an illusion of explanatory depth...
9
This idea is so incomprehensibly stupid that I thought it was an April Fools piece. Even holding aside for the moment the dangerous radical Islam aspect of the idea, where is the money going to come from? These people are going to arrive penniless, with little or no English language ability and no idea of how a Western society operates. Social and cultural integration would take decades. And job prospects for ill trained candidates will be virtually nil.
I live in California but at the risk of sounding NIMBY, let's find out where the authors live and put these refugees in their backyard.
I live in California but at the risk of sounding NIMBY, let's find out where the authors live and put these refugees in their backyard.
12
Interesting to note, neither of these two live in Detroit...
12
Why not Flint?
2
What a great idea. We would benefit economically in the long run, it would reduce terrorism by showing the world that we are not enemies with Arab peoples, and it wouldn't cost that much. So far our involvement in the Syrian crisis has been to funnel weapons and engage in bombings, which have only added more fuel to the fire.
2
Great and they can then turn Detroit into the Mess of the Middle East instead of the mess of the US. Maybe we can import Bashir Assad along with them.
9
Prof Laitin how about inviting them to Palo Alto? Mr. Jahr, how about Queens?
7
This is so typical. Elite pundits from the Left and Right coasts blithely float pie-in-the-sky "solutions" for fly-over country, the vast middle of the country that they clearly know little about and couldn't care about less.
Why don't you apply yourselves to issues like the lack of water to support California's population, or the dearth of affordable housing for teachers and police officers in New York and other coastal cities?
If your intention was to insult tens of millions of hard-working Americans, you have succeeded brilliantly.
Why don't you apply yourselves to issues like the lack of water to support California's population, or the dearth of affordable housing for teachers and police officers in New York and other coastal cities?
If your intention was to insult tens of millions of hard-working Americans, you have succeeded brilliantly.
15
"From its original Native Americans to the Great Migration of Southern blacks to the infusion of Hispanic and Arab immigrants, Detroit has been a melting pot of religions, ethnicities and cultures." This is certainly one of the most naïve statements I have read in a long time. Detroit suffered from racial tensions throughout its history, including, but not limited to, the 1943 and 1967 riots. Does "white-flight" not define the situation that brought the city of Detroit to its knees and continues to this day as first ring suburbs are now following in Detroit's footsteps. Far from being a melting pot, the tri-county area is still one of the most segregated areas of the country. True, we have Iraqi Americans, African Americans, Jews, Arab Americans, etc. all living in the metro-area, but they are still in their own distinct areas. How is that a melting pot?
14
This is the fresh kind of thinking, the open-hearted, compassionate, and generous kind of response, that could be the saving of the city, and the healing of the people of Syria.
The United States is overpopulated - especially California. Detroit should be reaching out to Angelenos and Bay Area residents who are currently being priced out of the home buying market - not refugees from the Muslim world with a poor track record of assimilation.
12
Really there is no reason to believe these people will leave their holy war with eachother, nor their hatred of Western ideology and us, behind them. Even when presented with the gold-paved streets of Detroit.
8
The refugees are the people who have left "their" holy war with each other. My community in Upstate has many Syrians, Lebanese and other Mid-easterners. My life was saved by a Syrian, a gifted surgeon whose experience, skill and discernment certainly made a difference in my life.
In all my experience with people who want to come here, I have yet to encounter a hatred of the ideology of opportunity, equality of the law, and justice.
In all my experience with people who want to come here, I have yet to encounter a hatred of the ideology of opportunity, equality of the law, and justice.
While I feel for the refugees, I have a better idea. Let's open Detroit to ANY and ALL of the homeless in America. Put ads in all the papers and make it like the land give-aways or homestead acts of old. Let anyone who has the gumption to pick themselves up by their bootstraps, be allowed to move there and claim an abandoned property.Give the banks five cents on the dollar,or a nice tax write-off (they give those away like free candy anyway!)
Sounds crazy? Who knows? They way things are going for the poor people and evidently for the poor cities, it may take some crazy ideas to get America up and running again. Perhaps 100k people descending on Detroit to claim a place to live would spark at least some interest in the city. As it stands now, there doesn't seem to be much concern at all.
Disclaimer: Although I am not homeless, I'm about out of options myself. Open that city up and I will move there tomorrow and take my chances.
Sounds crazy? Who knows? They way things are going for the poor people and evidently for the poor cities, it may take some crazy ideas to get America up and running again. Perhaps 100k people descending on Detroit to claim a place to live would spark at least some interest in the city. As it stands now, there doesn't seem to be much concern at all.
Disclaimer: Although I am not homeless, I'm about out of options myself. Open that city up and I will move there tomorrow and take my chances.
9
Most of the comments here are sickening reminders of the entrenched racism and anti-Islamic sentiment that supposedly doesn't exist in America anymore.
I live in Queens. I rarely hear English; even my wife is Korean. Burqas are a common sight. The only time I ever saw an elderly person helped in my neighborhood was when I saw a Muslim shawarma truck owner walk an elderly Asian man several blocks to his house. He carried his groceries for him and talked to him the whole way. Why can't this man and the many others like him be talked about?
Because the reactionaries who claim that terrorism will not scare them or defeat them, have shown through their shrill reactionary rhetoric, that terrorism has scared them and defeated them.
If you disagree with the article, dispute it on its merits, not on the peoples represented therein.
I live in Queens. I rarely hear English; even my wife is Korean. Burqas are a common sight. The only time I ever saw an elderly person helped in my neighborhood was when I saw a Muslim shawarma truck owner walk an elderly Asian man several blocks to his house. He carried his groceries for him and talked to him the whole way. Why can't this man and the many others like him be talked about?
Because the reactionaries who claim that terrorism will not scare them or defeat them, have shown through their shrill reactionary rhetoric, that terrorism has scared them and defeated them.
If you disagree with the article, dispute it on its merits, not on the peoples represented therein.
34
'...Why can't this man and the many others like him be talked about?...'
Oh, I dunno. Maybe because of the fact that burkas, a sign of female repression, are a common sight?
Oh, I dunno. Maybe because of the fact that burkas, a sign of female repression, are a common sight?
I agree that there is plenty of anti-Islamic sentiment in America,... and much of it well deserved. Anyone who calls himself a liberal would naturally be anti-Islam because Islamic theology, culture and practice are misogynistic, homophobic and anti-democratic. Being anti-Islam is not being Islamophobic (it's not a phobia of Islam that makes one anti-Islam; rather it is an understanding of Islam that brings about the antipathy.) And being anti-Islam is not being against individual Muslims- just hoping that they will see the light (and the enlightenment) and escape.
1
Why just Syrians and why just Detroit? We have millions of good, hard working people who live in the shadows here; or, who want desperately to come here and work.
Why not have a policy that directs the resources, skills and hard work of the undocumented, or those waiting to immigrate, to areas that need revitalization? Areas can be defined geographically or on a skills basis. In fact, perhaps letting more young people legalize or immigrate could solve the issue of too few workers supporting a large, growing number of Social Security recipients.
This not a plan to tear down all barriers; rather it's an effort to poke holes in those barriers that perversely prevent the US from meeting its domestic needs. We can be smart about this if shed both our fears and take the emotionality out of our policies.
Why not have a policy that directs the resources, skills and hard work of the undocumented, or those waiting to immigrate, to areas that need revitalization? Areas can be defined geographically or on a skills basis. In fact, perhaps letting more young people legalize or immigrate could solve the issue of too few workers supporting a large, growing number of Social Security recipients.
This not a plan to tear down all barriers; rather it's an effort to poke holes in those barriers that perversely prevent the US from meeting its domestic needs. We can be smart about this if shed both our fears and take the emotionality out of our policies.
Yeah, because a low population is Detroit's big problem. Those refugees won't relocate like everyone else from Detroit, or anything... And we know that relocating huge amounts of a single population always leads to cultural integration. Just look at Europe! If Syrian refugees wish to immigrate to the United States, they are more than welcome, but we cannot abide a mass migration of people unwilling to live within the American culture. We're a melting pot, not a dumping grounds. This idea is nonsense.
5
While the authors have lofty goals their naïveté is pretty shocking. To call Detroit a "melting pot" is ludicrous; rather it has been the most potent generator of white flight and segregation of the races of any city in US history. And any policy that brings more Islamic Arabs to the United States is short-sighted. Somehow I just don't see Syrian immigrants and the current Detroit population getting it on.
7
Resettling Syrians in Detroit would require commitment and cooperation across different branches and levels of our government, but it is eminently feasible.
That's like saying: Yes, it is theoretically feasible for a bleeding cat to survive being thrown into a tank full of starving sharks and come out of it alive.
But the concept proposed here is a constructive and humane one that applies the desperate needs of pummeled masses who have nothing left to call their own, to a place neglected and forgotten by a society too satiated and self-indulged to care for nor appreciate any of the things that's its forsaken and no longer wishes to call their own. How many other wasted and squandered resources has this country founded on "ownership" laid to waste only to retain title away from those who could use it, simply because we're a country of ungrateful hoarders who appreciate little of what its been endowed with.
Detroit is doomed if only viewed as an "American" city. View it as a place on earth, the creatures of this earth most suited for that place will find their way and thrive, along with that place itself, assuming outside factors that interfere with earth's natural functions preclude that from allowing it to happen.
That's like saying: Yes, it is theoretically feasible for a bleeding cat to survive being thrown into a tank full of starving sharks and come out of it alive.
But the concept proposed here is a constructive and humane one that applies the desperate needs of pummeled masses who have nothing left to call their own, to a place neglected and forgotten by a society too satiated and self-indulged to care for nor appreciate any of the things that's its forsaken and no longer wishes to call their own. How many other wasted and squandered resources has this country founded on "ownership" laid to waste only to retain title away from those who could use it, simply because we're a country of ungrateful hoarders who appreciate little of what its been endowed with.
Detroit is doomed if only viewed as an "American" city. View it as a place on earth, the creatures of this earth most suited for that place will find their way and thrive, along with that place itself, assuming outside factors that interfere with earth's natural functions preclude that from allowing it to happen.
I imagine the next thing Governor Snyder will advocate is that Michigan accept Shariah Law.
5
There's nothing as nincompoopish as the reasoning of a professor of political science! (And whoever was it who came up with the thought that there's a science to politics?)
Several commenters here already have weighed in on why we won't cure Detroit's maladies with the importation of people from other failed places. Most have it correct.
But, so far, no one has questioned why the good professor Laitin and housing maven Jahr think that "something positive" will be the result of inviting boatloads of veiled, subjugated, unread, demeaned women and girls to (not) "be transformed into budding American entrepreneurs."
Hey professor, hey Mr. Jahr, foot the bill for me to move to Detroit; loan me a few bucks to start a small business, maybe fix up a house. It'll cost less than bringing outsiders -- and there'll be waaaaaaay fewer administrative problems.
Several commenters here already have weighed in on why we won't cure Detroit's maladies with the importation of people from other failed places. Most have it correct.
But, so far, no one has questioned why the good professor Laitin and housing maven Jahr think that "something positive" will be the result of inviting boatloads of veiled, subjugated, unread, demeaned women and girls to (not) "be transformed into budding American entrepreneurs."
Hey professor, hey Mr. Jahr, foot the bill for me to move to Detroit; loan me a few bucks to start a small business, maybe fix up a house. It'll cost less than bringing outsiders -- and there'll be waaaaaaay fewer administrative problems.
7
Haven't these people suffered enough? As a Detroit native who fled long ago I wouldn't wish resettlement there upon anyone.
9
I'd suggest the authors visit the Banlieues of Paris-a city with an infinitesimal fraction of Detroit's problems-to see how a variant of their suggestion has turned out.
7
How about encouraging the people fleeing from extreme violence to our south to resettle Detroit - the NYT advocates ending detention - Voila!
While I applaud efforts in cities like Baltimore and Detroit to try and revitalize their cities, unless you address the socio-economic problems that caused their decline in the first place, I fail to see how adding more population would solve anything
8
The plan is fatally flawed. It relies on government selectively easing immigration restrictions for certain people (and not others). It relies on financial subsidies from the government.
There is a much better way that would help not only displaced Syrians, but people the world over, including Americans.
The reason the US has immigration restrictions is that it has a gigantic welfare state. The US is what it is today because, in the 1800s and early 1900s, it had largely unrestricted immigration & few if any government welfare programs. Virtually anyone could come to the US. Those who came were attracted by freedom and economic opportunity, not by financial support. With the growth of the welfare state came the unavoidable corollary of shutting the door to immigrants. You cannot have unrestricted immigration in such a system: there is always some limit, somewhere, to what you can ask taxpayers to pay to fund transfer payments. You will also tend to attract people who desire such payments, rather than those who desire freedom and financial opportunity, destabilizing the social fabric over time.
The answer is a thorough re-think of what the government is doing, and whether social welfare programs really benefit society and even their recipients, or primarily aggrandize those who dispense and run them: politicians and bureaucrats. The real path to relief for refugees is 180 degree the other way from what you propose. Minimize redistribution and maximize freedom to immigrate.
There is a much better way that would help not only displaced Syrians, but people the world over, including Americans.
The reason the US has immigration restrictions is that it has a gigantic welfare state. The US is what it is today because, in the 1800s and early 1900s, it had largely unrestricted immigration & few if any government welfare programs. Virtually anyone could come to the US. Those who came were attracted by freedom and economic opportunity, not by financial support. With the growth of the welfare state came the unavoidable corollary of shutting the door to immigrants. You cannot have unrestricted immigration in such a system: there is always some limit, somewhere, to what you can ask taxpayers to pay to fund transfer payments. You will also tend to attract people who desire such payments, rather than those who desire freedom and financial opportunity, destabilizing the social fabric over time.
The answer is a thorough re-think of what the government is doing, and whether social welfare programs really benefit society and even their recipients, or primarily aggrandize those who dispense and run them: politicians and bureaucrats. The real path to relief for refugees is 180 degree the other way from what you propose. Minimize redistribution and maximize freedom to immigrate.
1
These are destitute people. How will they improve the dire situation in Detroit, without resources? Once again, we hand over the money to everyone except our own people. Not interested.
5
Not the best option!
1
As a Syrian, I greatly appreciate this gesture, attempting to help my people during this hard time and deep crisis. I completely understand the moral and economic calls that underpin this humanitarian initiative. I, however, would vote against it for two main reasons. First, the moral obligation is not on the United States shoulders. It is on those who have instigated the crisis and are financially and logistically sustaining and prolonging the suffering of my people. The United States have many other moral obligations with higher degree of priority; many of the comments found here represent an honest referendum on this issue. Second, even with the best intentions from both sides, the host and the migrant, the problem of assimilation should not be taking lightly. I came for the United States 13 years ago because I could not assimilate in my own country and found in the United States' value code a dream that is worth fighting for. I assimilated pretty nicely and I live the American dream even without a citizenship. The case of displacing Syrian refugees is different. It is not the lack of assimilation in their country and the search for a value code they can assimilate into is what describe their aspirations. It is rather the lack of security and the atrocious ideological carnage. I don't see any viable roots for assimilation-ability that would guarantee the economic prosperity and social integration in the new promised haven. Thank you!
14
It should not escape the perceptive reader's attention, that the focus in this article is on the immigrant as human capital. What about the long-time African American residents of Detroit? Don't they deserve economic refuelling in a city where they have been living for ever? The writers seem to have very little faith in the ability of blacks to revive or reform the economy of Detroit. Such abysmal lack of faith in blacks has been the story of America since the time the nation opened its doors to immigrants. Any population but the blacks would do is the thought-paradigm dictating city-resettlement programs. Isn't it time for American policy-makers to look inward--to Detroit's blacks for instance--instead of looking outwards, to Syrians, etc. for revitalizing local economies in our nation?
25
Such a brilliant comment. Thanks for articulating that!
1
Good Lord.
The comments about Parisian suburbs and Syria obviously are written by people who have never been to either. I've been to both. The people there are focused on the same things that you are. The idea that all Arabs/Muslims are out to convert the world to Sharia is ludicrous. Once you meet and learn about people of other cultures you realize how similar we all are. That we all really just want peace and safety for our families. I don't know if you've all noticed but Arabs/Muslims have successfully assimilated into the US because they are allowed to be themselves here. The slight few who have turned to militancy get loads of attention in comparison to the millions who live quiet lives working, raising their families and loving the US. I hate to break it to you all, but the world is getting smaller and smaller. It's time to get out there and meet its inhabitants. The thing that makes the US great is that anyone can be an American. It's just plain wrong to think that if we invited 50,000 Syrians to the US they'd get here, look around and say, "OK, who brought the explosives?" 50,000? I say 500,000.
The comments about Parisian suburbs and Syria obviously are written by people who have never been to either. I've been to both. The people there are focused on the same things that you are. The idea that all Arabs/Muslims are out to convert the world to Sharia is ludicrous. Once you meet and learn about people of other cultures you realize how similar we all are. That we all really just want peace and safety for our families. I don't know if you've all noticed but Arabs/Muslims have successfully assimilated into the US because they are allowed to be themselves here. The slight few who have turned to militancy get loads of attention in comparison to the millions who live quiet lives working, raising their families and loving the US. I hate to break it to you all, but the world is getting smaller and smaller. It's time to get out there and meet its inhabitants. The thing that makes the US great is that anyone can be an American. It's just plain wrong to think that if we invited 50,000 Syrians to the US they'd get here, look around and say, "OK, who brought the explosives?" 50,000? I say 500,000.
6
I've been saying that this was a good idea for a while. However, what such a plan would have to ensure is that cash-strapped Detroit need not spend any more of its money on providing social programs to these people. While these people may revitalize (or at least occupy) the area, such a plan would only work if somebody else is footing the bill.
seems to suggest that it could be mostly the federal government footing the bill
"Refugees can revitalize the city, which has a large Arab community."
That large Arab community is in Dearborn.
That large Arab community is in Dearborn.
3
Why is the NY Times publishing this? This the most ludicrous article I think I have ever read, anywhere. Let's take 50,000 Syrian immigrants and plant them in Detroit? This has to be satire, because it's not possible that anyone with a brain their head could take this seriously.
12
While helping refugees find a place to settle and build a new life is an admirable and benevolent cause; I cannot help but think what may be if the government were to take those billions of dollars and invest it into rehabilitating the neighborhoods and people that already call Detroit their home.
7
Not a good idea. The US has demonstrated that it does a poor job of screening refugees from Jihadi countries like Syria. There is no need to give ISIS a strong foothold in this country which is what will end up happening if we bring Syrian Refugee to this country. I am opposed to bringing in refugees from Syria or Libya, or Iraq to this country. When we brought Somalis here we ended up with many of their children returning to Somalia to fight for Al Shabab.
Now the NY Times wants us to bring potential ISIS fighters to the US. I am not sure how the NY Times thinks up these ideas, but it obviously done without references to potential danger of ISIS militants being mixed in with the refugees.
We would do better to spend money making the refugee camps more habitable and reimbursing the countries that receive them than bringing potential terrorist to the US.
Don't we have enough trouble with race in this country without making it worse by importing potential terrorists hidden among refuges. Lets keep them in the Middle East but increase our financial contributions.
Now the NY Times wants us to bring potential ISIS fighters to the US. I am not sure how the NY Times thinks up these ideas, but it obviously done without references to potential danger of ISIS militants being mixed in with the refugees.
We would do better to spend money making the refugee camps more habitable and reimbursing the countries that receive them than bringing potential terrorist to the US.
Don't we have enough trouble with race in this country without making it worse by importing potential terrorists hidden among refuges. Lets keep them in the Middle East but increase our financial contributions.
4
1) Detroit isn't a humanitarian disaster.
2) Detroit is already revitalizing herself, thank you.
3) We already have a ton of Syrian refugees.
4) We can take more, keep them coming.
5) Doing a massive implant of people never works, that's how we got the monster that is Israel.
6) This is possibly the stupidest thing I've read all day.
2) Detroit is already revitalizing herself, thank you.
3) We already have a ton of Syrian refugees.
4) We can take more, keep them coming.
5) Doing a massive implant of people never works, that's how we got the monster that is Israel.
6) This is possibly the stupidest thing I've read all day.
15
I'm quite surprised by the bigotry shared among many of these comments. This nation has consisted of immigrants for generation after generation. The groups that have had difficulty are those that have been denied opportunities at various points, including Latinos, African Americans, Chinese, Jews and others. Immigrants typically take a generation or two, but in the meantime, nearly all groups have adapted assimilated to various extents.
As an example, the city of Dearborn - a city of about 100,000 in the Detroit area - has not only been successful, but has rejuvenated large sections of the city. As the Italians moved to other parts of the metro area, Lebanese, Yemeni, Iraqis moved into these neigborhoods are filled them with countless stores, shops, restaurants, doctors, lawyers, clothings stores, among many others. In addition, these groups have becomes part of the community by leadership in education, politics, religion and business.
There is definitely a period of time where immigrant groups learn the ways of their new locations. This has been the case of every group for well over 200 years hundreds of years - indeed, the ancestors of nearly every person contributing to this discussion. The most successful groups are those with long traditions of small, independent businesses.The groups that are less successful are those that have been excluded and segregated.
As an example, the city of Dearborn - a city of about 100,000 in the Detroit area - has not only been successful, but has rejuvenated large sections of the city. As the Italians moved to other parts of the metro area, Lebanese, Yemeni, Iraqis moved into these neigborhoods are filled them with countless stores, shops, restaurants, doctors, lawyers, clothings stores, among many others. In addition, these groups have becomes part of the community by leadership in education, politics, religion and business.
There is definitely a period of time where immigrant groups learn the ways of their new locations. This has been the case of every group for well over 200 years hundreds of years - indeed, the ancestors of nearly every person contributing to this discussion. The most successful groups are those with long traditions of small, independent businesses.The groups that are less successful are those that have been excluded and segregated.
2
Why stop with Syrians?
I don't see any of the frothing anti-Islamist mouth-breathers that one would find on too many websites here. The critics here are expressing very real rational reservations and misgivings. It's an interesting concept, but naively optimistic, with far too many potential negative repercussions.
To a large part, importing our foreign sins i.e. political missteps, are all too apparent in this article. This is something we, as a nation, routinely do, we just don't declare nor publicize it; by now, naturally, this inspires more a resurgence for isolationism than anything else.
I can't make sense of the authors' claim that the Detroit area has done a good job with assimilation. As evidence, they cite the Great Migration of Southern blacks to the city. However, blacks who moved to the city in the early- to mid-1900s were legally restricted to living in certain overcrowded neighborhoods of often sub-standard housing. After the U.S. Supreme Court struck down the restrictive covenants that imposed these housing restrictions (in 1948), whites fled to the suburbs in droves as African Americans moved into "their" neighborhoods. The Detroit region quickly became the most racially segregated in the country, which has significantly contributed to the City of Detroit's long-standing economic woes. The 2010 census showed that Detroit remains the country's most segregated metropolitan area:
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/03/24/10-of-the-most-segregated-cities-...
If assimilation is one of the authors' goals for these immigrants, they have not picked a city or region with a very good track record.
http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/03/24/10-of-the-most-segregated-cities-...
If assimilation is one of the authors' goals for these immigrants, they have not picked a city or region with a very good track record.
2
I moved to Michigan in 1978 to take a job in Banking. Detroit had over 1.5 million people and a sizable population of people with Middle East roots then. It also had hundreds of parts manufacturers and auto plants. Starting in the 80's many of those jobs would up in Mexico. Foreign auto plants located in the South where their labor was not unionized and wages and benefits were lower. We now have become a "right to work" state. So far no foreign auto plants have located to Michigan. The problems of Detroit and Michigan relate to the relative decline of manufacturing and the domestic auto industry in the United States. Bringing in people from lands which have failed at self government and which are peopled by extremists will only bring us more social problems than we already have. We cannot bring in all the worlds refugees.
7
This is not a bad idea but is simply too extreme. While it's a good idea to send new immigrants to an area already occupied by similar people, it's a very bad idea to send a massive number of them. It would simply be too hard on Michigan's already hard pressed social service budget and aging infrastructure. More importantly if a massive group had each other and an existing population of older Arab immigrants they'd have less incentive to learn English and assimilate.
It would make far more sense to do what the government has done with Hmong and Somalis and spread them out in several sympathetic and tolerant areas of the U.S. Surely the authors realize that there's a large Somali community in Minnesota as well as in Lewiston, and a large number of Iraqi Americans in San Diego as well as Michigan. 50,000 people is a large number of people to absorb.
While Hmong have been absorbed in Wisconsin and California as well as Minnesota they do not represent happiest story in immigrant adsorption. Coming to the U.S, with social values rooted in Imperial China and largely unchanged due to their mountain isolation in Laos. Their kids often experienced harsh discipline by the eldest male in the clan since this was traditional. They would refuse surgery that introduced evil spirits. Many thought snow and ice in Minnesota showed that the earth had died since white was their color of mourning. It took three generations for them to become assimilated. New immigrants need support.
It would make far more sense to do what the government has done with Hmong and Somalis and spread them out in several sympathetic and tolerant areas of the U.S. Surely the authors realize that there's a large Somali community in Minnesota as well as in Lewiston, and a large number of Iraqi Americans in San Diego as well as Michigan. 50,000 people is a large number of people to absorb.
While Hmong have been absorbed in Wisconsin and California as well as Minnesota they do not represent happiest story in immigrant adsorption. Coming to the U.S, with social values rooted in Imperial China and largely unchanged due to their mountain isolation in Laos. Their kids often experienced harsh discipline by the eldest male in the clan since this was traditional. They would refuse surgery that introduced evil spirits. Many thought snow and ice in Minnesota showed that the earth had died since white was their color of mourning. It took three generations for them to become assimilated. New immigrants need support.
1
This is the reason both parties have been stuck for decades electing the same corrupt flunkies over and over again: the Republicans cannot elect any one with new ideas because of the fruit cakes on their far right wing and the Democrats cannot elect anyone more liberal because of the fruit cakes on their far left wing.
My God, this is coming out of Stanford professor and a NYC Housing Director. Common sense in this country has just evaporated.
My God, this is coming out of Stanford professor and a NYC Housing Director. Common sense in this country has just evaporated.
4
I am all for helping Syrian refugees, but not by shipping them all to one place. Helping Detroit and helping the Syrians seem different issues. I can hardly imagine that filling up a former great -and now blighted American city with lost and hopeless people who cannot speak the language will do much for either Detroit or the Syrians. Perhaps the citizens of Detroit deserve a vote on this before you include them in your social experiment.
2
I found it weird that the writers suggesting this live in New York and California and not Detroit.
I grew up in Metro Detroit (5th generation Detroiter). My first thought was -- warn the Syrians about the winters. Second thought was -- has this person seen Detroit lately? Those abandoned houses? How's that going to work? You take a poor refugee and you say, hey! Here's a vacant house. Pay no attention to the lack of functional utilities or city services. (Did I mention our winters get in the sub-zero temps?) Just figure out the electricity thing and your missing copper pipes. Best of luck!
You'd have 50K Syrians in the same funk the rest of Detroit is in. I'm all for immigrant pluck, but you need infrastructure.
I grew up in Metro Detroit (5th generation Detroiter). My first thought was -- warn the Syrians about the winters. Second thought was -- has this person seen Detroit lately? Those abandoned houses? How's that going to work? You take a poor refugee and you say, hey! Here's a vacant house. Pay no attention to the lack of functional utilities or city services. (Did I mention our winters get in the sub-zero temps?) Just figure out the electricity thing and your missing copper pipes. Best of luck!
You'd have 50K Syrians in the same funk the rest of Detroit is in. I'm all for immigrant pluck, but you need infrastructure.
3
As one who grew up in first and second generation immigrant neighborhoods in the Detroit area, I remember particularly well two Hungarian brothers who settled in Detroit after fighting in the Hungarian uprising. I admired their bravery and determination to build a better life. Detroit, in the 1950's, had an economy strong enough to sustain a population of 1.9 million. Not so today. Although Detroit might welcome an infusion of Syrians, the economy of Detroit today is too weak to absorb a large number of immigrants.
The Hmong who arrived in the Twin Cities found not only a welcoming population but a an economy strong enough to provide jobs and opportunity.
What Syrian immigrants need is more than transportation to Detroit on a Welcome Wagon. They need work and opportunity. Detroit is not able to provide work and opportunity for its diminished population.
Why not consider Houston, Dallas or Atlanta?
The Hmong who arrived in the Twin Cities found not only a welcoming population but a an economy strong enough to provide jobs and opportunity.
What Syrian immigrants need is more than transportation to Detroit on a Welcome Wagon. They need work and opportunity. Detroit is not able to provide work and opportunity for its diminished population.
Why not consider Houston, Dallas or Atlanta?
5
There are 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US. We as a country can't get our act together to provide these immigrants with a driver's license, let alone immigration status. You think bringing Syrian refugees to Detroit is a good idea? Oh brother.
5
I have an even better idea! At the same time we can send a few millions of our incarcerated population to Aleppo in Syria. The city is practically empty! Real estate price are low!
5
Bring in displaced Syrians - presumably the Sunnis that Assad is battering, i.e. the same denomination that Al-Queda and ISIS draw from. Bring them into the country that "stood by and did nothing while they were being killed". Bring them into the country where Pamela Geller and Fox News teach that "all muslims are terrorists", the country that the conservatives would govern based on "judeo-christian values". There are not going to be any resentments from either side, no friction. What could go wrong?
1
America needs to continue to push for more heterogeneity, not less. The strength of our culture and economy, which enabled the US to prevail in WWII, was forged in a melting pot. Now we are instead sliding into more sequestration, more ghettos, more gated communities, more zip-code enclaves full of people who look and talk and think like each other.
The Somali refugees who came to the US in the 1990s are a case in point. A federal program directed these into a few urban areas in the US, especially Minneapolis. Now, 20 years later, we have second generation Somalians, technically US citizens, who do not feel they are a part of the American community, and they are joining ISIS instead.
Directly Syrian refugees to Detroit would be asking for similar trouble -- ISIS in Michigan.
Be humanitarian, but distribute the refugees across the US -- don't dump them all into one big ghetto.
The Somali refugees who came to the US in the 1990s are a case in point. A federal program directed these into a few urban areas in the US, especially Minneapolis. Now, 20 years later, we have second generation Somalians, technically US citizens, who do not feel they are a part of the American community, and they are joining ISIS instead.
Directly Syrian refugees to Detroit would be asking for similar trouble -- ISIS in Michigan.
Be humanitarian, but distribute the refugees across the US -- don't dump them all into one big ghetto.
4
RC:
I disagree. It is far more humane of Americans to first help Americans and then help refugees re-establish in their own native countries and improve conditions there so they do not have to flee in the first place.
I disagree. It is far more humane of Americans to first help Americans and then help refugees re-establish in their own native countries and improve conditions there so they do not have to flee in the first place.
What could possibly go wrong if we let in hundreds of thousands of people from a Jihadi-infested war zone? How exactly will our government verify that we are not letting in dangerous terrorists? The proposal should be limited to Christians and Yazidis, none of whom become Jihadis and all of whom face extermination.
4
Interesting concept, but what happens when the Alawite refugees and the Sunni refugees get into a bloody, vicious conflict over their usual inscrutable religious differences? Seems inevitable, since people from Syria and that region inevitably get into holy war with eachother, it's their tradition. I suppose we could handle it the Assad way and bomb Detroit flat (not losing much in the process), but seems like we could less expensively cut out the middle man and just let Assad keep bombing them flat over there, as he's currently doing.
2
quality vs quantity?
Arab Americans as in many urban areas have been given the opportunity to open stores with cooperation from the city, state, and govt.
One wonders how can they monopolize corner stores in Harlem? They have a consortium, and when one has to return to their homeland due to visa another replaces him. In other words, they only hire their own, they don't help the economy in poor neighborhoods, they sell unhealthy food, alcohol( against Koran teachings?), and loose cigarettes(illegal);even buying food stamps for cash. Not all, and not as many as it once was, but it is an issue.
This isn't to castigate Arab Americans at all, they are doing what they know to do. At one time they were very disrespectful in black/brown communities but after some run ins with residents they understand that disrespect to residents won't be tolerated. It was the same issue with Koreans, the total disrespect while depending on those very people to support your business. That is because America as a whole feels that its okay to disrespect black communities entirely. It has changed considerably, but not without a fight.
It is the governmental agencies that allows this to go on.
As is in this article the promotion of Arab American stability yet we have citizens, who have fought in wars, raised families , Americans , who must take the back seat.
It is tough what they're faced with but Americans right here suffer also.....
One wonders how can they monopolize corner stores in Harlem? They have a consortium, and when one has to return to their homeland due to visa another replaces him. In other words, they only hire their own, they don't help the economy in poor neighborhoods, they sell unhealthy food, alcohol( against Koran teachings?), and loose cigarettes(illegal);even buying food stamps for cash. Not all, and not as many as it once was, but it is an issue.
This isn't to castigate Arab Americans at all, they are doing what they know to do. At one time they were very disrespectful in black/brown communities but after some run ins with residents they understand that disrespect to residents won't be tolerated. It was the same issue with Koreans, the total disrespect while depending on those very people to support your business. That is because America as a whole feels that its okay to disrespect black communities entirely. It has changed considerably, but not without a fight.
It is the governmental agencies that allows this to go on.
As is in this article the promotion of Arab American stability yet we have citizens, who have fought in wars, raised families , Americans , who must take the back seat.
It is tough what they're faced with but Americans right here suffer also.....
3
The illustration attached to this article -- two women in full niqab with only their eyes and noses showing -- is exactly why this is a terrible idea. Importing an entire community of Islamic fundamentalists into Detroit is the last thing that city (or any place in the US) needs. As another commenter said, this is importing France's problems here, when we have a lot less social spending to ease the problems.
I say this as a liberal democrat. I may feel sorry for these people, but I refuse to condone allowing more people with fundamentalist Islamic mores to immigrate that have such major issues with women, as they certainly wouldn't condone me.
I say this as a liberal democrat. I may feel sorry for these people, but I refuse to condone allowing more people with fundamentalist Islamic mores to immigrate that have such major issues with women, as they certainly wouldn't condone me.
8
The illustration is merely that and does not reflect the background of Syrian refugees as a whole. Where did you get the idea that the Syrian refugees were Islamic Fundamentalists?
1
There are more than enough political refugees in fear of their lives from the Spanish speaking countries south of us. Resettling Detroit with motivated refugees is not a bad idea, but let's take care of our own first.
Australia, Japan, China, the Gulf states and most Sunni/Shiite countries have extremely restrictive immigration policies. For good reason. The first world cannot absorb everyone in the third world who wants to come; the countries aspiring to first world status want to provide the benefits for their own people first. America is no longer a country with vast tracts of land to be settled and factories that need labor. An open door policy, such as implied here, is inappropriate.
8
If your goal is to re-populate Detroit back to 1950 levels, how about providing corporations with incentives to build or rebuild new manufacturing facilities and commercial businesses - to draw people who want good, permanent jobs from other places in the US? That's how Detroit was populated in the first place - with a lot of migration from the South, and some immigration from elsewhere.
To create an "artificial population center", with no prospect of meaningful, gainful employment (let alone training in basic English and American lifestyles) is ... well ... pretty stupid. If Syrians in particular have already been added to the federal (legal) immigration mix, then some of them might actually end up in Detroit, but to simply create an "insta-ghetto" with a cultural bubble around it, isolating them from the mainstream of US culture, and then "hope for the best", is both foolish and dangerous.
Now, if your goal is purely to provide housing and welfare for massive numbers of Syrians, and to use America as the target destination for these folks, I suggest you seek consensus among those who live in - as well as those who "govern over" - the target jurisdictions in your plan - including Detroit. Failure to do so is a guarantee that new and more difficult problems will follow. And even with consensus, it won't be an easy solution to two difficult problems that have no relationship to each other - other than they're both happening concurrently.
To create an "artificial population center", with no prospect of meaningful, gainful employment (let alone training in basic English and American lifestyles) is ... well ... pretty stupid. If Syrians in particular have already been added to the federal (legal) immigration mix, then some of them might actually end up in Detroit, but to simply create an "insta-ghetto" with a cultural bubble around it, isolating them from the mainstream of US culture, and then "hope for the best", is both foolish and dangerous.
Now, if your goal is purely to provide housing and welfare for massive numbers of Syrians, and to use America as the target destination for these folks, I suggest you seek consensus among those who live in - as well as those who "govern over" - the target jurisdictions in your plan - including Detroit. Failure to do so is a guarantee that new and more difficult problems will follow. And even with consensus, it won't be an easy solution to two difficult problems that have no relationship to each other - other than they're both happening concurrently.
3
I am surprised that you did not mention Lebanon which hosts now more than two millions Syrian refugees, according to the latest statistics.
1
I have been a resident of Detroit (not "metro" Detroit--i.e., white suburbs) for over 50 years. I seriously doubt these authors know anything at all about our city. The "Arab" populations are primarily Lebanese, and primarily live in Dearborn, NOT the city of Detroit (yes, it's a big difference, like the difference between the Upper East Side and Flatbush). Yes, Detroit needs more residents. But our residents left because there are no jobs, and no public transportation to available jobs 20-40 miles away, and extremely poor school systems--and now our city and state officials are bleeding us dry with increased fines, fees, and taxes, increased home foreclosures, and increased water shut-offs. If anyone has billions or trillions to help resettle Syrians under these conditions,that money could flow to our own Black, Latina/o, and white residents, who are, in effect, internal displaced persons.
12
I hate to see my fellow political scientist advocating certain policy projects based on "scientific" evidence. In research designs that are based on the idea of average treatment effect, individual subjects are reduced to data points.
But remind ourselves, these are the Syrian refugees we are talking about who have been deeply traumatized by the loss of their homeland, their families, and friends. I am not questioning the authors' humanitarian intentions. But relocating them and their community to Detroit only conjures up in my mind the image of building high walls and fences around this "alien" community, which might lead to stigmatization of Syrian refugees and the further drift of this community away from the American society.
But remind ourselves, these are the Syrian refugees we are talking about who have been deeply traumatized by the loss of their homeland, their families, and friends. I am not questioning the authors' humanitarian intentions. But relocating them and their community to Detroit only conjures up in my mind the image of building high walls and fences around this "alien" community, which might lead to stigmatization of Syrian refugees and the further drift of this community away from the American society.
2
Why not let them go everywhere? They can live in the pool, coach, second, third and fourth houses that stand empty most of the year throughout the U.S. They can work for the owners of those houses and at the companies they run. The funding, education and opportunity would be at their doorstep so the transition would take far less time. If that works, we could try it with our own desperately impoverished population. Who's in?
3
Good idea or bad, the simple truth is it isn't going to happen.
We like to think the US will always be there to protect innocents, but what we really want is to protect them on their own soil.
We like to think the US will always be there to protect innocents, but what we really want is to protect them on their own soil.
2
Are there no Americans who would wish to colonize Detroit? Offer, say, free houses to rehab, property tax exemptions, perhaps a substantial stipend to renovate. A substantial, Federal bailout to Detroit colonists of the type given to Wall Street thieves would surely stimulate the flow of American colonists to Detroit.
7
Uh, I can't think of a worse idea and for a long moment thought this was an attempt at sarcastic humor. Apparently it isn't.
Well, let's take a population under extraordinary duress, with no democratic heritage, and place them in a city devoid of jobs and in the midst of decay. Gee, what can wrong?
Well, let's take a population under extraordinary duress, with no democratic heritage, and place them in a city devoid of jobs and in the midst of decay. Gee, what can wrong?
13
Michigan's large Arab community (second largest in America) is not in Detroit but Dearborn totally another city. I wonder if the addition of these refuges would spill-over and affect Detroit.
2
Might work if they all came with their own job.
5
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but what exactly are there people going to do for a living once they get to the promised land?
You do understand that was the problem that brought Detroit to it's knees to begin with don't you?
And seriously, have you ever been to Detroit? This idea that it's a bombed out war zone just isn't reality. There is a ring of blight around the City where the fled blue collar workers once lived but downtown and the suburbs are very wealthy. I'm not sure how these people would feel about suddenly having 1m displaced refugees from a region so culturally disparate dumped on the edges of their communities. Especially if they don't have jobs or the potential of having them.
And I have to be honest: ANYTHING that shill for the Koch's His Glorious Highness Rick Snyder is in favor of is something that is going to be bad for Michigan and line the pockets of the super wealthy. The Kochs are probably considering a forced labor camp where the refugees have to work for 20 years to gain their freedom.
You do understand that was the problem that brought Detroit to it's knees to begin with don't you?
And seriously, have you ever been to Detroit? This idea that it's a bombed out war zone just isn't reality. There is a ring of blight around the City where the fled blue collar workers once lived but downtown and the suburbs are very wealthy. I'm not sure how these people would feel about suddenly having 1m displaced refugees from a region so culturally disparate dumped on the edges of their communities. Especially if they don't have jobs or the potential of having them.
And I have to be honest: ANYTHING that shill for the Koch's His Glorious Highness Rick Snyder is in favor of is something that is going to be bad for Michigan and line the pockets of the super wealthy. The Kochs are probably considering a forced labor camp where the refugees have to work for 20 years to gain their freedom.
4
This might be the single worst idea I've ever heard. Even entirely ignoring the potential security threat, bringing in 50,000 war torn Arab refugees to one of the poorest cities in America is an atrociously bad idea. There is a reason more than 1 million people left Detroit in the past 50 years. There are no jobs to support them.
Creating a giant Syrian Ghetto in an American city in decline would more or less guarantee the impossibility of future near-term assimilation which should be the goal of any well crafted refugee policy. With poverty and lack of assimilation you get ailenation. Why would we purposefully bring young Arabs here only to ailenate and isolate them, further?
Furthermore, it certainly wouldn't help Detroit. We are talking about refugees whom the majority of Americans are aprehensive about welcoming (not without some reason). The lack of unfurled welcome mat is, in and of itself, nothing particularly new... Though fear of this particular group far exceeds the fear of most others. Regardless, it just makes sense to bring in refugees first to areas where we needed labor... and second not to concentrate them overly. After all, if you are thinking of moving a company to Michigan... would you say to yourself, "Wow 50,000 traumatized Arab refugees in a single poor community... That's where I want to draw my workforce from!"
We should do our share to help, but let's be smart about it. Give them the best chance for success. Detroit just ain't it!
Creating a giant Syrian Ghetto in an American city in decline would more or less guarantee the impossibility of future near-term assimilation which should be the goal of any well crafted refugee policy. With poverty and lack of assimilation you get ailenation. Why would we purposefully bring young Arabs here only to ailenate and isolate them, further?
Furthermore, it certainly wouldn't help Detroit. We are talking about refugees whom the majority of Americans are aprehensive about welcoming (not without some reason). The lack of unfurled welcome mat is, in and of itself, nothing particularly new... Though fear of this particular group far exceeds the fear of most others. Regardless, it just makes sense to bring in refugees first to areas where we needed labor... and second not to concentrate them overly. After all, if you are thinking of moving a company to Michigan... would you say to yourself, "Wow 50,000 traumatized Arab refugees in a single poor community... That's where I want to draw my workforce from!"
We should do our share to help, but let's be smart about it. Give them the best chance for success. Detroit just ain't it!
14
Love the photo accompanying this late April Fool's column. Nothing says "Welcome to America" more than a woman whose personal freedom is totally circumscribed by her husband's religion. Will she be allowed to drive in Motor City?
17
That answer would be no.
As a native Detroiter, I can assure you this is an absurd proposal.
Metro Detroit is already the #1 U.S. destination for middle eastern immigrations, and the #1 destination for middle eastern refugees. There are huge Iraqi communities, as well as smaller communities from all over the Middle East. They're already here.
But you can't force someone to live in a jurisdiction. 99.9% of immigrants to Detroit end up outside the city limits. The close-in suburbs offer dirt-cheap homes, good schools, good services, low taxes, and relative safety. There is no logical reason a refugee would deal with Detroit (city proper).
The only immigrant community within Detroit city limits is a small Mexican population, which is really only there because there's already an established community that is fairly self-sustaining. It also doesn't hurt that the area is almost void of law enforcement, meaning that those without documentation feel a bit more secure, and non-English speakers feel more comfortable in a Spanish speaking community. But even among this community, established immigrants with papers all move to the suburbs,
Metro Detroit is already the #1 U.S. destination for middle eastern immigrations, and the #1 destination for middle eastern refugees. There are huge Iraqi communities, as well as smaller communities from all over the Middle East. They're already here.
But you can't force someone to live in a jurisdiction. 99.9% of immigrants to Detroit end up outside the city limits. The close-in suburbs offer dirt-cheap homes, good schools, good services, low taxes, and relative safety. There is no logical reason a refugee would deal with Detroit (city proper).
The only immigrant community within Detroit city limits is a small Mexican population, which is really only there because there's already an established community that is fairly self-sustaining. It also doesn't hurt that the area is almost void of law enforcement, meaning that those without documentation feel a bit more secure, and non-English speakers feel more comfortable in a Spanish speaking community. But even among this community, established immigrants with papers all move to the suburbs,
16
I needed a class in college to fill out my schedule and ended up taking a course in demography---must admit, I took the only empty class left. Too bad it was empty --- among the many things I learned, the one I still remember is the professors continuing theme of "demography is destiny." Not to go into details, but his major point was the more diverse your population the better and the more immigration the better. He was predicting 40 years ago, that Japan was in trouble and so was most of Europe because of declining birth rates and policies discouraging immigration. He looked upon our countries stance on immigration as a positive one. Since our Congress appears to have a lot of time on its hands, I recommend that look for an empty demography class to gain some understanding of why demography is destiny.
9
Sure, maybe we'll see the same results in 20 years that we're seeing since the infusion of Somalis into Minnesota in the early 90's. The Americanized Somali's have proven to be an excellent recruitment base for ISIS after all.
15
Having observed Snyder for the past couple of years, I would say he’s a guy who thinks what looks good on paper works in reality. Also, his tactic is to strong arm instead of paying attention to history or to how what he decides affects real people.
In this case, the reality is that we seemingly have successfully relocated smaller numbers of people to places like Pennsylvania, but never 50,000 in one mass movement to one place, and that, a place where there are no jobs for the people who already live there. The job issue seems to be the primary reason France has a problem in the banlieues. What is happening in France deserves in-depth study because, acting without consideration, might well put us in the same place France finds itself.
Finally, consider Detroiters; if you were a jobless native of Detroit, how would you feel about a large group moving all at once into your neighborhood?
In this case, the reality is that we seemingly have successfully relocated smaller numbers of people to places like Pennsylvania, but never 50,000 in one mass movement to one place, and that, a place where there are no jobs for the people who already live there. The job issue seems to be the primary reason France has a problem in the banlieues. What is happening in France deserves in-depth study because, acting without consideration, might well put us in the same place France finds itself.
Finally, consider Detroiters; if you were a jobless native of Detroit, how would you feel about a large group moving all at once into your neighborhood?
9
It is one thing to open immigration into America for those downtrodden who are seeking refuge. It is another to take a scarred people who have suffered unspeakable violence and create a massive ghetto in an area with serious economic problems and a failing infrastructure. The initial arrivers may simply be happy to breath and live away from imminent threat to their lives, but how long before they and, especially, the next generation or two builds up an incredible resentment to having been ghettoized and isolated, like caged animals in a zoo, with their only hope to live off the government dole. Only an academic and a government employee could come up with such an absurd and cruel idea with such potential damaging consequences.
20
The initial arrivals: the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, the Chinese, the Mexicans, the Eastern Europeans, the Vietnamese, the Laotians, the Cambodians, the Indians, the Pakistanis, to name a few, may simply be happy to breath and live away from imminent threat to their lives, but how long before they and, especially, the next generation or two builds up an incredible resentment to having been ghettoized and isolated, like caged animals in a zoo, with their only hope to live off the government dole.
From whence BK did your family originate, the Mayflower?
From whence BK did your family originate, the Mayflower?
I don't care if you dump 50,000 Horatio Alger heroes, if people still know what that means, into Detroit. It is still a city that was built because a few big employers kept hundreds of people working, and they needed services from schools to grocery stores. Those jobs are gone now. How would 50,000 people plopped into Detroit support themselves? Some will be shopkeepers or building helpers, but what will sustain this community if the government money were cut off (which would be a tremendous political fight).
15
Sure, we could let the Syrians colonize Detroit, a declining population city, then the refugees from N. Africa could have Buffallo another declining population city, the Yemenites could have Cleveland, the Somalians Minneapolis and so forth.
14
What's your point, aside from the one on the top of your head?
The problem of having a large number of immigrants from one location is that there is much less or no incentive to assimilate. I have lived in a dozen states in the US, and have lived outside the country as well. But moving to the Chicago area opened my eyes to what happens when large numbers of immigrants have no incentive to assimilate. Chicago is the most segregated city in the US. People don't even have to learn English, they don't have to do anything to 'become American' but move here. You can go into almost any business and see people not even make an effort to communicate in English, and who are promptly rewarded with a response in the language they started up with. And language is just one of the things that makes them stand apart culturally. I would never have believed that I would come to this position, but I think that Americans need to make a concerted effort to protect their culture. We have enough problems within our borders such as high child poverty, race issues, education issues, etc. that we don't need to do for others when we can't keep up with our own citizens already.
23
We see a similar pattern here in some immigrant communities. But, it only lasts for the initial generation; the children assimilate (although many unfortunately also lose their dual language skills in the process).
Define "American Culture" before you rant on about language. What exactly are the things that intrinsically make up our culture?
I think it's a great idea.
My fear however is that the Syrians will bring with them a violent innate and learned vigorous antisemitism learned in the schools, media and streets which not only calls for disrespect of Jews, but for their death. How will we protect this minority Jewish religion within the social fabric of Michigan if these Syrian people who kill each other over minor differences in religious practices are brought to this nation where egalitarianism and respect for ones fellow citizen is antithetic to their fabric and social structure?
My fear however is that the Syrians will bring with them a violent innate and learned vigorous antisemitism learned in the schools, media and streets which not only calls for disrespect of Jews, but for their death. How will we protect this minority Jewish religion within the social fabric of Michigan if these Syrian people who kill each other over minor differences in religious practices are brought to this nation where egalitarianism and respect for ones fellow citizen is antithetic to their fabric and social structure?
19
"More important, both parties can agree that resettling destitute, innocent refugees is consistent with America’s moral and ethical commitments."
The impressively credentialed authors of this piece clearly don't read the paper that their article appears in. The Republicans say "Build a chain link fence around the country". And the Democrats, two of them anyway, have equally ridiculous ideas like settle the Syrians in Detroit-- like we did the Somalis in Maine. But in any event "both parties" can't be said to agree on ANYTHING.
The impressively credentialed authors of this piece clearly don't read the paper that their article appears in. The Republicans say "Build a chain link fence around the country". And the Democrats, two of them anyway, have equally ridiculous ideas like settle the Syrians in Detroit-- like we did the Somalis in Maine. But in any event "both parties" can't be said to agree on ANYTHING.
2
Detroit is surrounded by suburbs filled largely with relatively uneducated, mostly white populations that tend to view ANYBODY who's Muslim or of Middle-Eastern descent as a terrorist, and there's already a tense relationship between Detroit and the suburbs. And Rick Snyder's the head of a state Republican Party that skews heavily toward the extremely ignorant, Fox-News informed, Tea Party side of things. The fact that Snyder can occasionally look sane in comparison to the rest of the state party illustrates just how horrible most of them are. And that type of Republican tends to be pretty rabidly anti-immigration.
In Michigan, in 2015, I think this is a non-starter.
In Michigan, in 2015, I think this is a non-starter.
11
Who better to help the city get back on its feet? Chances are good that ten years from now Detroit would be home to a thriving community of business people who would have many positive effects on the city.
5
"A thriving community of business people ... " Well, where would the money come from to create the demand for the goods and services these businesses provide? Good God, think it through. The current population has no money to buy much of anything. THis proposal adds another 100,000 people with no money, no language skills, no cultural skills, education, etc. Talk about a disastrous idea!!
Or, or, hey, I got it! How about we march into Syria, take it over, Mission Accomplished, and then we can resettle Detroit residents there! Or, no, wait, um, we could resettle these authors there, one each in Detroit and Syria! Or, no, wait, um.... yeah!
13
Why stop there? Let's build a Palestinian state in Youngstown, Ohio. If the Israelis don't like it, invite them in to South Dakota. Think how much better our ethnic restaurants would be.
5
hmmm promote a civil war in a M.E. country, force 2 million people out of their homes into refugee camps, ask them to resettle in one of your dying cities...yes yes tell me more...
12
I fly over the vast empty middle of the this country every week (and land and stay in many of the towns and small cities). There is room here for millions if not hundreds of millions here. If you put 20 million immigrants from anyplace (not just Syria) no one would even notice.
I would be in favor of having each arrival sign a contract stating the progress in becoming "American" that we should expect. Pretty simple really. Learn the language, pay taxes, obtain citizenship and start voting, buy a house, open a business, procreate and send you off spring to school and then university, and live a descent life.
I would be in favor of having each arrival sign a contract stating the progress in becoming "American" that we should expect. Pretty simple really. Learn the language, pay taxes, obtain citizenship and start voting, buy a house, open a business, procreate and send you off spring to school and then university, and live a descent life.
2
Yeah, it's not empty. Sorry that the people on the coasts think they are the only ones that exist. I don't need "hundreds of millions" of violent and illiterate Syrian (and other) immigrants drowning the Midwest in a flood of immigrants.
Detroit? What is wrong with Detroit....besides the obvious, no jobs, bad schools, decades of residents fleeing to the surrounding suburbs and countryside, bad local government, bad state government, poorly maintained roads, housing stock.
Manufacturing jobs built this town, technology and trade agreements allowing for companies to chase the lowest labor costs drove many jobs out of town, offshore and with no workable re-training in place you are left with what you have today...a great town, now a shadow of its former self
BTW, you can switch the name of the city to Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and you will see many of the same results, manufacturing towns that thrived for close to 100 yrs, all changing into something else, shadows of their former selves for better or worse..
"Dumping" people into these towns is a crazy idea....they will grow into something else on their own...
Manufacturing jobs built this town, technology and trade agreements allowing for companies to chase the lowest labor costs drove many jobs out of town, offshore and with no workable re-training in place you are left with what you have today...a great town, now a shadow of its former self
BTW, you can switch the name of the city to Chicago, Cleveland, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia and you will see many of the same results, manufacturing towns that thrived for close to 100 yrs, all changing into something else, shadows of their former selves for better or worse..
"Dumping" people into these towns is a crazy idea....they will grow into something else on their own...
9
Vietnamese refugees in the 1970s brought the moribund commercial area of Clarendon in Arlington VA back to life. Detroit could similarly benefit.
From a humanitarian standpoint, it is a way to eliminate the suffering of thousands who are stranded in a war zone.
YES! An innovative idea that should be implemented as soon as feasible.
From a humanitarian standpoint, it is a way to eliminate the suffering of thousands who are stranded in a war zone.
YES! An innovative idea that should be implemented as soon as feasible.
3
Agreed. The best way to stimulate a stagnant economy is with an infusion of new people and ideas. Those who would likely take advantage of this opportunity are honest, decent individuals and families just looking to make a better life for themselves - displaced persons are more than just refugees, as we all are defined by more than just our current political, economic, or social status. We can't herd them into Detroit neighborhoods like cattle, but what we can do is set up the conditions for them to build homes and businesses. It takes a little political will and funding, but the long-term benefits of liberal immigration policy are worth considering.
Talented Syrians should fix Syria.
20
I can't believe this guy wrote this column. You know many Islamic extremists would be immigrating too.
12
That is why you need to do security check. You cannot deny refugees because they are Muslim.
Someone called this column 'leftist'; I'm not sure why. As a democratic-socialist, I see monumental problems in moving tens of thousands of poor people from anywhere to a place of poverty and limited job opportunities.
I applaud the idea of trying to help Syrians, but we have a disappearing middle class and a burgeoning low-wage sector here. How in the world are we supposed to give these Syrians a good life when we're already cheating over 100 million of our own? The rigged financial game here threatens democracy as well as our humanity. Yes, we should help Syria and the Syrians. But, my God, first let's make a decent place for our citizens to live and grow in.
I applaud the idea of trying to help Syrians, but we have a disappearing middle class and a burgeoning low-wage sector here. How in the world are we supposed to give these Syrians a good life when we're already cheating over 100 million of our own? The rigged financial game here threatens democracy as well as our humanity. Yes, we should help Syria and the Syrians. But, my God, first let's make a decent place for our citizens to live and grow in.
16
Please turn on "recommend" button.
5
What a stupid idea. Maybe the US should let 50,000 Bangladeshi settle into Appalachia?
Why doesn't this country use its resources, brainpower and creativity to help its own citizens get back on their feet???
Why doesn't this country use its resources, brainpower and creativity to help its own citizens get back on their feet???
68
This is an excellent idea. As a native Appalachian, 50,000 Bangladeshi would be a godsend to the area and add to the vibrant mountain culture!
Yes. Why don't we allow 50,000 Bangladeshi to settle in Appalachia? Sounds good to me. And, do more to help our own citizens get back on their feet. All of this would be a hell of a lot cheaper than the endless wars we continue to wage.
That's a different problem. This is about re-populating and revitalizing a city.
The great migration from the south never really worked. The desperate Blacks escaping the injustices of the South, while equals on the shop floor, were, and have pretty much always have been, segregated in Detroit. On top of it, many have been manipulated into fearing whites by the constant invocation of lynchings and injustice - by their own very cynical political and religious leaders.
Other than unionized auto plants, many got jobs the only other place they could - the government. Now how would you feel if you heard all this talk about gutting all government jobs, government is the problem, government is corrupt, etc. etc.? From their viewpoint it is just another veiled attack.
We can live in a just world that Blacks, Hispanics and yes, Syrian immigrants can live and flourish in peace, but it takes a buy in from not only ordinary citizens, but everyone, including demagogues, and incendiary media personalities, including radio, TV and the internet.
As to some of the other comments posted here, Detroit has problems like all major US cities, including poverty, education, safety, crime and opportunity. They can all be solved with good management and decisions. Nothing is impossible. And it is far from a third world "hellhole" as some have claimed. That cynicism is what we need to confront head on, as it keeps stasis alive. If one side has to define the prevailing consensus, it has to be possibility, otherwise we are doomed, and not just in Detroit.
Other than unionized auto plants, many got jobs the only other place they could - the government. Now how would you feel if you heard all this talk about gutting all government jobs, government is the problem, government is corrupt, etc. etc.? From their viewpoint it is just another veiled attack.
We can live in a just world that Blacks, Hispanics and yes, Syrian immigrants can live and flourish in peace, but it takes a buy in from not only ordinary citizens, but everyone, including demagogues, and incendiary media personalities, including radio, TV and the internet.
As to some of the other comments posted here, Detroit has problems like all major US cities, including poverty, education, safety, crime and opportunity. They can all be solved with good management and decisions. Nothing is impossible. And it is far from a third world "hellhole" as some have claimed. That cynicism is what we need to confront head on, as it keeps stasis alive. If one side has to define the prevailing consensus, it has to be possibility, otherwise we are doomed, and not just in Detroit.
11
Let's take care of the folks already in Detroit that are struggling. If we can pull that off, then we can pat ourselves on the back for living up to our high ideals and begin to think of bringing new poverty to the city.
At times it is as if the writers of the Opinion Pages are oblivious to the other problems documented in the same newspaper...
At times it is as if the writers of the Opinion Pages are oblivious to the other problems documented in the same newspaper...
12
The ivory tower authors apparently are clueless about the many nationalities of immigrants who voluntarily came to the Detroit area over the years. Detroit does not have to beg immigrants to live there. The City of Detroit fell on hard times when the bottom went out of the auto industry with the recent national economic meltdown, true, but things are starting to turn around. I find this "plan" insulting and naïve. "A 2003 study of the community found two-thirds of respondents said they had voted for George W. Bush." Really? Do the writers know that Michigan has voted for the Democrat candidates in every presidential election in recent memory? And most Detroiters vote Democrat. Somehow I think the NY Times mistakenly printed an article intended for The Onion.
6
An excellent suggestion. Syrians have a long history of success as merchants and innovators and could revitalize Detroit. The first generation may cloister itself among fellow Syrians, but the second generation would assimilate to the benefit of the country as a whole.
It's an idea worth trying.
It's an idea worth trying.
2
It's a wonderful idea. I'm amazed at the quantity of negative comments. Both Detroit and Syrian refugees have a need and a resource. Bringing them together is compassionate and creative -- a win-win solution. With all ideas, we can choose to imagine negative outcomes or positive. Which mindset we choose makes all the difference in the world. America, above all other countries, was created from imaginations that chose positive expectations.
3
Glad to see there are still some who are optimistic and able to envision a better world. So many here just write off Detroit as a failed city. The city will continue to languish, or it will be revived by enterprising men and women, but either way the land won't just disappear. The only thing holding back progress is an unwillingness to commit to a common goal. Stop with the fear and exclusion, and embrace change. We'll all be better off for it.
Fascinating proposition and the comment responses are telling. i) No one mentions that there are many thousands of Christian Syrians facing hardship. To the bigoted minds of several respondents, all Syrians are Muslim and therefore suspected jihadis. ii) Human movement and resettlement in different lands is the history of humanity. It has been with us for thousands of years, whether it is cavemen moving from one valley to the next for access to water or food or the millions who crossed the ocean for a better life in the New World in the 19th and 20th centuries. iii) Nativist sentiment is clearly quite widespread, even among NY Times readers
1
This idea is a bit of truly poignant nostalgia, drawing from the best and the worst of American history. Unregulated 19th C capitalists needed cheap, bound labor to realize their burgeoning industrial and infrastructural projects. It was a hellish life, but the opportunity for successive generations was real. Americans still feel wistful about that now-ironic inscription on the Statue of Liberty; it embodies an honorable intention and a much-compromised solution. America was a growing enterprise. There was a mentored path from unskilled to skilled available to workers within a local system.
Detroit, though, has been abandoned by 21st century capital and by those equipped to sustain an economy. Even if some immigrants could be supported in small business start-ups, the city has lost its economic spine. There are no jobs, not even bad ones, and ambitious skill has bailed. Cultural issues aside (those maybe iron out in a few generations), it's probably an economic no-go. We'd only be creating another economically isolated underclass.
But every nation on this planet should be brainstorming like this, so kudos. There are solutions, if there were will. It's not misplaced liberal guilt to recognize shared humanity with and shared responsibility for the increasing mass of desperate, homeless and hopeless refugees pleading for the world's help. To ignore them or insist that they are someone else's responsibility ensures an already probable global dystopia. Keep thinking.
Detroit, though, has been abandoned by 21st century capital and by those equipped to sustain an economy. Even if some immigrants could be supported in small business start-ups, the city has lost its economic spine. There are no jobs, not even bad ones, and ambitious skill has bailed. Cultural issues aside (those maybe iron out in a few generations), it's probably an economic no-go. We'd only be creating another economically isolated underclass.
But every nation on this planet should be brainstorming like this, so kudos. There are solutions, if there were will. It's not misplaced liberal guilt to recognize shared humanity with and shared responsibility for the increasing mass of desperate, homeless and hopeless refugees pleading for the world's help. To ignore them or insist that they are someone else's responsibility ensures an already probable global dystopia. Keep thinking.
4
A little known truth about the U.S.--particularly among the xenophobe set who believe the country is "full up" and being overrun by immigrants, legal and otherwise:
Among the earth's nations--the United States actually has one of the lowest population densities--the number of people per square mile--on the planet.
Somewhere in the 180's on the list of nations.
We certainly have the space to continue to be--as the founders envisioned--a nation of immigrants.
The key question is "Do we have the will?"
Not just to make the humanitarian effort.
But to overcome the strident resistance of the nattering nabobs of resurgent know-nothingness--resistance that is visible in something of the comments already posted to this article.
Among the earth's nations--the United States actually has one of the lowest population densities--the number of people per square mile--on the planet.
Somewhere in the 180's on the list of nations.
We certainly have the space to continue to be--as the founders envisioned--a nation of immigrants.
The key question is "Do we have the will?"
Not just to make the humanitarian effort.
But to overcome the strident resistance of the nattering nabobs of resurgent know-nothingness--resistance that is visible in something of the comments already posted to this article.
3
Uh, we don't appear to have the "will" to fix Amtrak. Never mind fix the Syrian quagmire.
Detroit is not a social and humanitarian disaster. Comparing it to war ravished communities living in refugee camps overseas is insulting to both peoples involved. It also shows your ignorance on how to approach the city to whom would offer support to 50K Syrians.
Space (not housing) and a current Arab population are the two advantages to moving Syrians here.
Its an intriguing idea but as Kurt mentions on the comment board and mass amount of culturally different people insulated from America is risky. Assimilation with language, culture will be harder and transitions to American economic efforts more difficult.
Space (not housing) and a current Arab population are the two advantages to moving Syrians here.
Its an intriguing idea but as Kurt mentions on the comment board and mass amount of culturally different people insulated from America is risky. Assimilation with language, culture will be harder and transitions to American economic efforts more difficult.
6
Detroit could be settled with refugees from the drought in Southern California. Too many people living in the desert is as much a part of the story as lack of rain. If the Federal government could resettle some Californians to Detroit, which sits along lakes with 20 percent of the world's fresh water, it would help resolve both situations. California also has a large homeless population, in part due to the high cost of housing. Housing is cheap and plentiful in Detroit. Just move in, bring it up to code and it's yours. Urban homesteading. If the Federal government can spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on each foreign immigrant, think what they could accomplish with domestic migrants.
13
What a wonderful idea! Clearly what America needs right now is a Muslim ghetto where the Syrians will refuse to integrate, just like in europe. And why just Syrians? Sub Saharan Africans arent doing to well in Sudan or Nigeria where they are slaughtered by Islamist hordes.
You cant just 'import' people. They need to want to come here and respect our values first. This is something many liberals just throw out the window and you see the results all across Eurpe now.
You cant just 'import' people. They need to want to come here and respect our values first. This is something many liberals just throw out the window and you see the results all across Eurpe now.
10
i live in Detroit and think it is a great idea but as always the devil is in the details. There might opposition in the African American majority in Detroit who would see the Syrians as being "Johnny come lately's" who although they may deserve help have not been waiting and struggling as long as African Americans who should get any aid first. Also with the war on terror and ISIS there would be fear of bringing terrorists into the USA. And finally any distinctly foreign group of immigrants is going to be closely scrutinized by established citizens and subject to prejudice.
Maybe if you bring in small, thoroughly vetted groups of professionals or immigrants with solid and established family ties in Detroit you may be able to overcome a lot of the opposition. But I don't think that wholesale immigration with no discretion would work at all. If you tie in limited Syrian immigration due to human rights abuses and refugee status with home repair and renovation programs like the Detroit Land Bank you could bring in quality immigrants with family ties to help renovate and reinvigorate the City.
A very good idea but it must be presented, structured and operated properly and appropriately. It could become a model for bringing in other "targeted refugee groups" but you would definitely need the support of the Syrian community in Detroit. I wonder how they feel about it?
Maybe if you bring in small, thoroughly vetted groups of professionals or immigrants with solid and established family ties in Detroit you may be able to overcome a lot of the opposition. But I don't think that wholesale immigration with no discretion would work at all. If you tie in limited Syrian immigration due to human rights abuses and refugee status with home repair and renovation programs like the Detroit Land Bank you could bring in quality immigrants with family ties to help renovate and reinvigorate the City.
A very good idea but it must be presented, structured and operated properly and appropriately. It could become a model for bringing in other "targeted refugee groups" but you would definitely need the support of the Syrian community in Detroit. I wonder how they feel about it?
2
Let woman be treated as trash! it will revitalize Detroit!
10
Ah, I see! So you believe that penniless, probably non-English-speaking Arabs can revitalize a city that all the blacks in the world can't. At least now we know what you must think about black people.
It isn't that, in the past, refugees and immigrants from the Middle East haven't added much to our cities or that they haven't been able to assimilate. One thinks about the Syrian and Egyptian Jews forced in the 1950s and 1960s to flee their homes -- as well as Christian Arabs who, persecuted by Muslims, found they could no longer remain in their countries. They have opened businesses, and they are good neighbors. (They are "westernized," if you will -- unlike, I have to say, just from my experience in Brooklyn, many recent Muslim immigrants whose wives continue to wear full burka.)
But no one ever said, in those days, in essence, "These people can save our cities from crime and filth."
It isn't that, in the past, refugees and immigrants from the Middle East haven't added much to our cities or that they haven't been able to assimilate. One thinks about the Syrian and Egyptian Jews forced in the 1950s and 1960s to flee their homes -- as well as Christian Arabs who, persecuted by Muslims, found they could no longer remain in their countries. They have opened businesses, and they are good neighbors. (They are "westernized," if you will -- unlike, I have to say, just from my experience in Brooklyn, many recent Muslim immigrants whose wives continue to wear full burka.)
But no one ever said, in those days, in essence, "These people can save our cities from crime and filth."
6
Just what we need in the heartland of America: Sunnis and Shites duking it out and bombing each other into oblivian! Who in their right mind would invite thousands of suicide bombers, Shariah Laws, women with no rights dressed in burqas, no respect for freedom of speech or religion, ISIS lovers - are you kidding me? There are many other means to incentivize the repopulation of Detroit by using tax incentives, various types of subsidies and the resources we already have in place: American citizens!
9
This idea has a merit inside but over all For Detroit it is pitiful.
Once a 20th century symbol. Anyway, a boom town Detroit lived its glamour, time passed and now trying to find a foothold.
Once great Michael Moore said, what do you mean Iraq destroyed , come and see the Detroit.
Refugees survival, and a city survival, sometimes very far fetch things can be happened.
Once a 20th century symbol. Anyway, a boom town Detroit lived its glamour, time passed and now trying to find a foothold.
Once great Michael Moore said, what do you mean Iraq destroyed , come and see the Detroit.
Refugees survival, and a city survival, sometimes very far fetch things can be happened.
What a stupid idea. Ask Minneapolis how it works out when you invite a war scarred population to cluster in your city. Only a really naive liberal would propose an idea this misguided.
12
Michigan's governor, (who is pushing the plan) is a Republican.
I like this idea in the abstract but doubt it would work. First it would be an open admission that the US doesn't think the present occupants--largely African Americans--and their culture is salvageable. Second, the world's other refugees,of which there are many millions, would likely be insulted, wondering why they too couldn't be part of the resettlement plan. Allso, Detroit is home to many different Arab groups, and as the world has seen, not all of them get along just because they speak dialects of the same language.
8
Perhaps like those well-known Chechen "refugees," the Tsarnaevs, many of these Syrians would somehow manage to visit their war-torn home country once a year on vacation.
6
Since I am a firm believer that the world is overpopulated, I can see no reason to add to our own population problems. Especially a people that are so religiously fanatical and far less ready/able to assimilate into mainstream America with all it's christian fanatics.
Not only that, but how many future ISIS recruits will there be in future years?
Not only that, but how many future ISIS recruits will there be in future years?
7
DOA = GOP; historic Motown gas station franchise war excluding Black owners shut out by Arab entrepreneurs = continued violence; linguistic ghettoization = Sharia law; Monroe Doctrine vis-a-vis South American refugee-immigrants.
I do not agree with raising the refugee ceiling. Also, I am not sure of this, but don't the refugee provisions of our immigration laws spread the available refugee spots around the world so a mix of refugee's can have an opportunity to escape oppression.
Today is by no means the same as the early 1900s when immigrants flocked to the United States from Europe. Our Republican House has seen fit to propose a budget which (a) reduces Social Security benefits for our most vulnerable citizens, 11 million severely disabled (including 1 million veterans and 3 million children); (b) has the largest war budget in history when we already spend more than Russia and China combined on the military; and (c) gives hundreds of billions of dollars in an unbelievable TAX CUT FOR OUR WEALTHIEST while the Republicans at the same time cry broke.
There are always going to be wars and refugees; but Americans are sick and tired of being the world's policeman and also for paying for remediating the effects of wars that have nothing to do with us.
We need to back off of fighting ANY war that does not DIRECTLY affect our national security. Equally important, we need to make sure ALL existing American citizens receive all of the social network benefits previously passed by Congress, and expand them, before we funnel our money anyplace else or to anyone else.
If we cannot take care of our own, we have no business trying to take care of others.
Today is by no means the same as the early 1900s when immigrants flocked to the United States from Europe. Our Republican House has seen fit to propose a budget which (a) reduces Social Security benefits for our most vulnerable citizens, 11 million severely disabled (including 1 million veterans and 3 million children); (b) has the largest war budget in history when we already spend more than Russia and China combined on the military; and (c) gives hundreds of billions of dollars in an unbelievable TAX CUT FOR OUR WEALTHIEST while the Republicans at the same time cry broke.
There are always going to be wars and refugees; but Americans are sick and tired of being the world's policeman and also for paying for remediating the effects of wars that have nothing to do with us.
We need to back off of fighting ANY war that does not DIRECTLY affect our national security. Equally important, we need to make sure ALL existing American citizens receive all of the social network benefits previously passed by Congress, and expand them, before we funnel our money anyplace else or to anyone else.
If we cannot take care of our own, we have no business trying to take care of others.
5
Let's get the facts straight. The city owned art collection, worth billions, was not preserved. It is no longer owned by the city and was given up for pennies on the dollar. This while the schools are in need of funds to meet minimal standards of learning, funds are needed to remove blight, reduce crime, fix fire hydrants and improve mass transit.
3
Most migrants in the past were of some type of Christian persuasion, and those countries that ended up with majority Protestant migrants did the best: USA, Canada, Australia; those countries that ended up with majority Roman Catholic migrants didn't do as well, but they got by. Other small non Christian minority migrant groups got blended in with little disruption. Not so with Muslim migrants... in Europe where they have migrated in larger numbers, there is lots of problems with the 2nd and 3rd generation as they are not willing to fit in. In countries where they have migrated further in the past, they want separation, not peacefully mind you, but through force: northern Cyprus, Kosovo, northern Macedonia, southern regions in Thailand, southern islands in Philippines, Caucasus regions, north-east region in India (don't forget Pakistan and Bangladesh), western China... anyone inviting Muslims to settle, is only asking for trouble!
5
This will not be politically correct, but we need to be cautious with our immigration patterns from the middle east.
The author brings up Hmong refugees in MN which has been an unqualified success.
We in Minneapolis have also taken in countless Somali refugees. We have entire Somali neighborhoods. We have fed them, clothed them, cared for them
We have probably the best social services in the country and a strong labor market.
We have been very welcoming.
And yet these people tend not to assimilate. They tend to keep themselves apart. Even the second generation Somalis. Worse, several Somalis have become radicalized and are going back to the Middle East to wage jihad.
The vast majority are wonderful people. However we dont go more than a few months without hearing about yet another radicalized Somali Minnesotan.
Given the world today, can Muslim refugees assimilate?
The author brings up Hmong refugees in MN which has been an unqualified success.
We in Minneapolis have also taken in countless Somali refugees. We have entire Somali neighborhoods. We have fed them, clothed them, cared for them
We have probably the best social services in the country and a strong labor market.
We have been very welcoming.
And yet these people tend not to assimilate. They tend to keep themselves apart. Even the second generation Somalis. Worse, several Somalis have become radicalized and are going back to the Middle East to wage jihad.
The vast majority are wonderful people. However we dont go more than a few months without hearing about yet another radicalized Somali Minnesotan.
Given the world today, can Muslim refugees assimilate?
8
Somewhere between learning the conjugation of an Arabic verb and parsing the subtleties of the written script, my tutor would break down and weep. She had fled Syria with her teenage daughter and was struggling to make a go of it in Dubai, a very expensive and not very welcoming city. As we grew to know one another over the course of a few weeks, she shared what life had been like in Damascus, taking great pride in the vibrant intellectual and cultural landscape. The beauty of the architecture, the conviviality of the neighborhoods created a cultural tapestry that wound around the family hearth and the Syrian cuisine (like the country itself, a marvelous mixture of the nationalities in the region.)
Later, after moving to work in Kuwait City, I worked with Amer, an incredibly hardworking and dedicated young architect; also from Syria.
Latin and Jahr have the right of it with their article. The many Syrians that I got to know while working in the Middle East since 2013 only confirm this for me. The strength of our country comes from our diversity and, be in in Detroit or in Cleveland (where I've returned), we would benefit in enormous ways from welcoming them, encouraging and supporting them to thrive.
Later, after moving to work in Kuwait City, I worked with Amer, an incredibly hardworking and dedicated young architect; also from Syria.
Latin and Jahr have the right of it with their article. The many Syrians that I got to know while working in the Middle East since 2013 only confirm this for me. The strength of our country comes from our diversity and, be in in Detroit or in Cleveland (where I've returned), we would benefit in enormous ways from welcoming them, encouraging and supporting them to thrive.
3
Not too insane a suggestion is it? We have no problems at all with radical Islam in this country, no terror threats or actions, and complete assimilation of those who have come to this point. Don't we? The Caliphate of Detroit! Maybe the next step, their own "State" within but separate from the United States. Let's do Sharia law somewhere here and see how it goes. Is the writer crazy, or maybe just enjoying already what is already going on in the world and looking to magnify it here of all places?
6
As Mr. Laitin and Mr. Jahr mention, refugees have settled in several cities in the U.S.. Detroit would not be an experiment. Surely the other cities would be visited and the people involved interviewed, to improve the way refugees are integrated into the area.
You've got it backwards.
Detroit doesn't need immigrants, it needs jobs. It has shrunken to the size that it's economic base can sustain. Lack of jobs and opportunity has fueled the radicalization of Muslims in Europe and the Middle East so creating a place with a similar situation in the US seems like a very bad idea.
Pittsburgh was able to reinvent itself after the steel industry left without changing it's culture. Detroit needs to do the same..
Detroit doesn't need immigrants, it needs jobs. It has shrunken to the size that it's economic base can sustain. Lack of jobs and opportunity has fueled the radicalization of Muslims in Europe and the Middle East so creating a place with a similar situation in the US seems like a very bad idea.
Pittsburgh was able to reinvent itself after the steel industry left without changing it's culture. Detroit needs to do the same..
7
This is a pretty dumb idea. If we are going to go down this road, why not just let illegal Mexican's settle in Detroit, especially given that unlike the Syrians, the Mexicans are already here.
3
Obama is handing out more than 1/3 of all refugee visas to Middle Easterners, so there should be a plan in place. "Giving" cities, or portions of them, to one racial or ethnic group, however, is morally repugnant. Why should Syrians be the only beneficiary of American largesse? Why aren't we handing out refugee visas to Sub-Saharan Africans who have been dealing with genocide for far longer than the duration of the Syrian War? Moral relativism when we start picking racial and ethnic groups that are more worthy than others to be given the promise of a new start in America.
5
This is all about more money for Detroit. Let Detroit solve its own problems. After all, it created them.
4
I don't know about "send(ing) a powerful message to President Bashar al-Assad" apart from sparing his military the bombs and bullets they'd otherwise be using to kill these people off. On the other hand, admitting more Syrian Sunnis to the U.S. would be an excellent idea assuming that we successfully screen out those who are inclined to jihadist activity against the West. At the same time, we also need to extend this privilege to Sudanese Darfuris and to Burmese Rohingyas and to raise the issue of genocide at the U.N. Security Council to the extent that we threaten to leave this most feckless of institutions if it continues to close its eyes to the disgraceful actions of despots like Assad.
1
Syrians in Detroit? Which ones? What could possibly go wrong?
6
Now, now, Robin -- don't be so skeptical. We can easily screen out the bad guys: Just ask each Syrian: "Are you a good guy or a bad guy?" That should do the trick.
Gotta love the language of settlement -- they really do treat Detroit like a colony. Yes, right of immigration for all, including those displaced by US wars. But how about "settling" instead one of the areas of concentrated white-collar crime who could use an example of honest hardworking people. Or at least stop talking about Detroit as if it's another planet.
2
Move people into cities, from where all the jobs have been shipped to the Cayman Island moguls Communist Chinese partners? Sounds like a plan.
4
The US is not the world's dumpster.
This is insulting to Americans that are already living here. These refugees aren't going to bring some magic solution to Detroit's or any other depressed US city.
This is insulting to Americans that are already living here. These refugees aren't going to bring some magic solution to Detroit's or any other depressed US city.
18
I believe term is "melting pot", not dumpster.
Abu Al Baghdadi has in its latest speech in an clear,Melodious voice says "Islam was never a religion of peace. Islam is the religion of fighting. No-one should believe that the war that we are waging is the war of the Islamic State. It is the war of all Muslims, but the Islamic State is spearheading it. It is the war of Muslims against infidels."
Transporting Syrians refugees to revitalise Detroit is one more harebrained scheme to transport Muslims to deal with the Detroiters.
The assumption that Syrians are an entrepreneurial lot & will transform Detroit is far fetched & without an shred of documentary evidence.
If running a few Pop & Mom shop is entrepreneurial material then why not Indians.
There is one possibility that is time tested & time honoured & that's a civil war in Detroit,that is going to be bit difficult to handle.
I have not read in an long time such an strangely over optimistic Op ed based on an delusion of an group of Refugees from Syria creating the next Eden Gardens in Detroit.
Transporting Syrians refugees to revitalise Detroit is one more harebrained scheme to transport Muslims to deal with the Detroiters.
The assumption that Syrians are an entrepreneurial lot & will transform Detroit is far fetched & without an shred of documentary evidence.
If running a few Pop & Mom shop is entrepreneurial material then why not Indians.
There is one possibility that is time tested & time honoured & that's a civil war in Detroit,that is going to be bit difficult to handle.
I have not read in an long time such an strangely over optimistic Op ed based on an delusion of an group of Refugees from Syria creating the next Eden Gardens in Detroit.
2
When you say Syrian you seem to infer a homogeneity that does not exist. They represent many groups, tribal and religious, with differences that could again bring about the same kind of conflicts.
What is the logic of bringing more of this here, while, at the same time, we argue about denying visas and deporting latinos, who are already here, and have proven positive demographics and a shared cultural history with the U.S. majority? It's not a bad idea, considering the suffering of so many refugees, but if implemented, would need careful sifting.
What is the logic of bringing more of this here, while, at the same time, we argue about denying visas and deporting latinos, who are already here, and have proven positive demographics and a shared cultural history with the U.S. majority? It's not a bad idea, considering the suffering of so many refugees, but if implemented, would need careful sifting.
2
Having never been to Detroit but seeing extensive photo journalism examining this great city's decline, I can only imagine that Americans deserted it because its internal infrastructure collapsed. Americans would repopulate it if the services were there.
Simply shoehorning immigrants in, particularly those from war zones where many have literally had to fight for survival amidst tribal warfare and plonking them in decrepit urban zones is a recipe for outright disaster. These areas would become ghettos, which actively discourage integration into American culture, let alone learning English to a high enough standard to function as American/Western citizens.
I say this as offspring of Irish and Caribbean immigrants to Britain. Immigration and multiculturalism WITHOUT integration as a perogative of such dubious social endeavours will end in faliure just as it has failed in every major European country including Britain. My father (who arrived in the 1960s) is disgusted by the attitudes of many immigrants who can't be bothered to learn English, can't be bothered to extend their social networks beyond people from their own countries and essentially live parallel lives. Even worse, many of these people from war zones arrive poor, do not have the life experience/knowledge of Western cultural norms to gain access to the higher standards of living enjoyed by most Americans. This is how the seeds are sown for insidious fanaticism to take root in these areas for the next generation.
Simply shoehorning immigrants in, particularly those from war zones where many have literally had to fight for survival amidst tribal warfare and plonking them in decrepit urban zones is a recipe for outright disaster. These areas would become ghettos, which actively discourage integration into American culture, let alone learning English to a high enough standard to function as American/Western citizens.
I say this as offspring of Irish and Caribbean immigrants to Britain. Immigration and multiculturalism WITHOUT integration as a perogative of such dubious social endeavours will end in faliure just as it has failed in every major European country including Britain. My father (who arrived in the 1960s) is disgusted by the attitudes of many immigrants who can't be bothered to learn English, can't be bothered to extend their social networks beyond people from their own countries and essentially live parallel lives. Even worse, many of these people from war zones arrive poor, do not have the life experience/knowledge of Western cultural norms to gain access to the higher standards of living enjoyed by most Americans. This is how the seeds are sown for insidious fanaticism to take root in these areas for the next generation.
7
"Americans would repopulate it if the services were there."
People didn't leave Detroit because the "services" weren't there. The services left Detroit because the people weren't there, and the people left Detroit for two reasons:
1. The jobs weren't there (by far the biggest reason).
2. White flight, beginning after the Detroit riot in 1967 and continuing for several decades. As in most US urban areas, moving from the city to a suburb means you don't pay city taxes any more. Maybe the city will try to make up for that by imposing a tax on people who work in the city, but that usually backfires too -- companies just set up shop outside the city.
A few cities avoid this (Columbus, OH, for example) by various inducements for suburbs to be incorporated into the city proper. (I'm not sure how Columbus accomplishes this, but I've heard it has threatened to shut off an area's water unless it agrees to be incorporated -- one can see why that might work).
Detroit differs from some other blighted cities in at least one important way. In Cleveland, for example, very large run-down areas have been leveled and replaced by new buildings (thanks, to no small extent, to the efforts of Cleveland Clinic, which has expanded in that area; many CC employees now live near where they work). In Detroit, by contrast, many run-down areas still have a few houses left -- often just one per block. Nobody wants to invest while those places (usually occupied by drug dealers) are still there.
People didn't leave Detroit because the "services" weren't there. The services left Detroit because the people weren't there, and the people left Detroit for two reasons:
1. The jobs weren't there (by far the biggest reason).
2. White flight, beginning after the Detroit riot in 1967 and continuing for several decades. As in most US urban areas, moving from the city to a suburb means you don't pay city taxes any more. Maybe the city will try to make up for that by imposing a tax on people who work in the city, but that usually backfires too -- companies just set up shop outside the city.
A few cities avoid this (Columbus, OH, for example) by various inducements for suburbs to be incorporated into the city proper. (I'm not sure how Columbus accomplishes this, but I've heard it has threatened to shut off an area's water unless it agrees to be incorporated -- one can see why that might work).
Detroit differs from some other blighted cities in at least one important way. In Cleveland, for example, very large run-down areas have been leveled and replaced by new buildings (thanks, to no small extent, to the efforts of Cleveland Clinic, which has expanded in that area; many CC employees now live near where they work). In Detroit, by contrast, many run-down areas still have a few houses left -- often just one per block. Nobody wants to invest while those places (usually occupied by drug dealers) are still there.
How would the present denizens of Detroit view another immigrant success story?
2
What a suggestion!
Americans can't solve their own problems so let's bring in a new group who can "settle" in the Detroit area. Perhaps, as we did with the Native Americans, we can move all of Detroit's poor to a reservation in Utah or South Dakota; that idea has worked SO well.
April and April's Fool jokes are over. This idea just plain stinks.
Americans can't solve their own problems so let's bring in a new group who can "settle" in the Detroit area. Perhaps, as we did with the Native Americans, we can move all of Detroit's poor to a reservation in Utah or South Dakota; that idea has worked SO well.
April and April's Fool jokes are over. This idea just plain stinks.
8
Only people who will never be held accountable could come up with such a brash and absurd idea.
5
Bring 'em over by the boat load. Business is in their blood ! Big win win idea.
The First Nations might suggest everyone else can just leave. Those foreigners have done enough damage. Who ever heard of mussels before the Europeans arrived?:)
This is an excellent idea. Detroit certainly has space to absorb a large number of people. The biggest single issue will be assisting the Detroit schools in assimilating the children among that population. Many of the non-Michigan commenters seem not to realize that metro Detroit already has a large Arab/middle Eastern derived population, both Christian and Muslim and, for example, Dearborn schools already serve food meeting Muslim requirements. As for the possibility that the immigrants would include ISIS members, I fear for their safety, as they'll be heavily outnumbered by the existing tough well-armed people in the area.
"This is an excellent idea."
Darn right -- so excellent, in fact, that they ought to do it in Grand Rapids too, don't you think?
Darn right -- so excellent, in fact, that they ought to do it in Grand Rapids too, don't you think?
What an excellent creative idea! You see how politicians would never come up with such a plan?
"Syrian refugees would be an ideal community to realize this goal, as Arab-Americans are already a vibrant and successful presence in the Detroit metropolitan area."
Replace the word Syrian with "European" and the NYT would be up in arms. Why is it ever acceptable to posit that one group of people is preferable over another?
Replace the word Syrian with "European" and the NYT would be up in arms. Why is it ever acceptable to posit that one group of people is preferable over another?
1
The Syrian solution seems to imply that black Detroit residents cannot sustain economic development and most be replaced by immigrant population, a process being carried out by Latin American immigrants in other parts of the United States.
26
And it is working so well in the border states.
There are numerous reasons this is simply a bad idea. Here are just a couple of them. (1) Adding more people to Detroit without adding the real jobs (not make-work) to support families is a non-starter. (2) Adding more people who have not accepted American values, i.e. equality of men and women, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech, will result in a permanent Muslim underclass here just as it has in many parts of Europe. (2a) Bringing tens of thousands of Sunni refugees who have been traumatized by Shiites is not going to sit well with the largely Shiite population of people of Arab descent already living in the Detroit area. (3) If there is a need to resettle Detroit and use taxpayer resources to do so then take some of the millions of hard hit American citizens living in shelters or their cars in other parts of the country to do that. In sum, as many readers have already pointed out, this is an incredibly bad idea that will do far more harm than good unless our goal is to create even more poverty, more divisiveness, and more resentment.
39
The article says the majority of the Arabs in the Detroit area are Christian.
The authors of this op-ed are simply sugar-coating Michigan's racial discrimination problem.
You can import as many foreigners as you like, but as long as jobs are exported from the urban areas of America and bank redlining continues then nothing will change. Perhaps these authors should read "When Work Disappears: The World of the New Urban Poor" by William Julius Wilson.
For more on Wilson's book, go here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/01/04/nnp/20090.html
and here: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/when-values-disappear/ .
You can import as many foreigners as you like, but as long as jobs are exported from the urban areas of America and bank redlining continues then nothing will change. Perhaps these authors should read "When Work Disappears: The World of the New Urban Poor" by William Julius Wilson.
For more on Wilson's book, go here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/01/04/nnp/20090.html
and here: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/when-values-disappear/ .
24
"Refugees resettled from a single war zone have helped revitalize several American communities, notably Hmong in previously neglected neighborhoods in Minneapolis, Bosnians in Utica, N.Y., and Somalis in Lewiston, Me."
The Somalis of Lewiston were not "resettled" there. They decided to come, on their own, after being "resettled" in large American cities. From a 2007 New Yorker article:
"""Who authorized this?" Lewiston officials say that this is the question they heard most often when the Somalis began showing up in town. The answer was: Nobody did. The Somalis had simply decided to come. Most had been resettled by government agencies in large American cities like Atlanta and Columbus, and were not happy with the crime, drugs, and schools they found there."
The cities they left sound a lot like Detroit.
The Somalis of Lewiston were not "resettled" there. They decided to come, on their own, after being "resettled" in large American cities. From a 2007 New Yorker article:
"""Who authorized this?" Lewiston officials say that this is the question they heard most often when the Somalis began showing up in town. The answer was: Nobody did. The Somalis had simply decided to come. Most had been resettled by government agencies in large American cities like Atlanta and Columbus, and were not happy with the crime, drugs, and schools they found there."
The cities they left sound a lot like Detroit.
28
As a resident of the area, I'm sure the problem is not a lack of people.
It is a lack of any future for the people there. No jobs. No prospects.
Adding Syrians without language skills or job skills would not improve Detroit. It would only be more of the existing problem.
What Snyder wants to do is move in Young Republicans with State money. Their success, if they have it, will be from being not-Detroit, just in the same location.
It is a lack of any future for the people there. No jobs. No prospects.
Adding Syrians without language skills or job skills would not improve Detroit. It would only be more of the existing problem.
What Snyder wants to do is move in Young Republicans with State money. Their success, if they have it, will be from being not-Detroit, just in the same location.
34
@Thomason:"...move in Young Republicans..."
Thomason, like many leftists, always frames any problem as somehow originating in the GOP!
Thomason, like many leftists, always frames any problem as somehow originating in the GOP!
11
How do you think L Brooks Patterson and his ilk would like a bunch
of Syrian refugees in Oakland County?
of Syrian refugees in Oakland County?
You are quite wrong in saying they have no job skills. Syrians are, on the whole, a very well-educated group of people with a good work ethic. Many already live in the area and have become U.S. citizens.
It's just amazing: what a string of leftist Op Eds that the Times is running!
26
They are most assuredly "on a run" here, but then, they are kicking off the 18 month-long run off to the next election -- and they are near-hysterical to push their candidate Hillary and her extremist lefty liberal agenda.
1
Leftist? Did anyone else read this as leftist?
2
I know! I love it! Ideas to debate....some good, some bad. Isn't it fantastic to have such a forum?
Looking at the experience of the Balkans, Iraq, Syria, or almost any other place you'd wish to mention, anytime ethnic communities set themselves off from others in the area without assimilating, unrest and dissension follows. America has escaped that in the past because of its success in assimilating incomers, thereby avoiding development of competing loyalties and national identities.
Should we wish to bring in refugees, we would be better advised to initially distribute them around the country in smaller packets than to dump large numbers of them in any one community, no matter how accepting. Any Syrians we bring in must become Americans, but colonizing any one area of the country with large numbers of a homogenous ethnicity separate from the rest of us is a recipe for disaster for both them and us.
Should we wish to bring in refugees, we would be better advised to initially distribute them around the country in smaller packets than to dump large numbers of them in any one community, no matter how accepting. Any Syrians we bring in must become Americans, but colonizing any one area of the country with large numbers of a homogenous ethnicity separate from the rest of us is a recipe for disaster for both them and us.
46
I agree 100%. It's time for America to stand for it's values. At some point either this generation has to live up to the ideals of the Statue of Liberty or admit our failure. We once, supposedly, had the greatest generation, what then is this generation, the worst? Probably.
7
The Statue of Liberty was a gift from France celebrating the 100th anniversary of our independence from England.
The "ideal" you refer to is a liberal interpretation of a poem someone stuck at the base. The author of the poem was commenting on the state of immigration at that time. She was not advocating for open boarders.
The "ideal" you refer to is a liberal interpretation of a poem someone stuck at the base. The author of the poem was commenting on the state of immigration at that time. She was not advocating for open boarders.
19
Sam Roberts in the NYT
"For Lazarus, who wrote the sonnet in 1883 having seen only the torch when it was on display for a fund-raising drive in Madison Square Park, “it was a moment of moral and spiritual recovery, after her attempts to raise money to benefit the Russian-Jewish refugees of 1881-82 had largely fallen on deaf ears,” Professor Schor said.
Instead of retreating, she broadened her appeal to all immigrants, Professor Schor said. For her “the statue was a special kind of mother — a ‘mother of exiles’ — a mother whose mission is not to reproduce herself, but rather to adopt the abandoned, the orphaned, the persecuted,” she said."
Pro immigrant for sure.
If Lazarus were making open border arguments, in a fund raising poem, decades before borders were ever closed, her poem should be far more famous than it is as the work of an Old Testament prophetess.
But right wing rhetoric has certain internal conflicts doesn't it? It wants to claim the past as its own and to exclusive ownership but does not want the actual past. So, the usual distinctions without differences tailored to the sulker's needs for the moment's sulk, then on to the next, and so on and on, with the distinctions coherent only in terms of the passing sulk.
"For Lazarus, who wrote the sonnet in 1883 having seen only the torch when it was on display for a fund-raising drive in Madison Square Park, “it was a moment of moral and spiritual recovery, after her attempts to raise money to benefit the Russian-Jewish refugees of 1881-82 had largely fallen on deaf ears,” Professor Schor said.
Instead of retreating, she broadened her appeal to all immigrants, Professor Schor said. For her “the statue was a special kind of mother — a ‘mother of exiles’ — a mother whose mission is not to reproduce herself, but rather to adopt the abandoned, the orphaned, the persecuted,” she said."
Pro immigrant for sure.
If Lazarus were making open border arguments, in a fund raising poem, decades before borders were ever closed, her poem should be far more famous than it is as the work of an Old Testament prophetess.
But right wing rhetoric has certain internal conflicts doesn't it? It wants to claim the past as its own and to exclusive ownership but does not want the actual past. So, the usual distinctions without differences tailored to the sulker's needs for the moment's sulk, then on to the next, and so on and on, with the distinctions coherent only in terms of the passing sulk.
5
Who said anything about "open borders"? I just want people to get to America the same way that "conservative" American's got to America. I would say a more apt description would be "low barrier of entry" borders. One based on empathy, not on class (PhD's only) or racial lines. I accept my "ideal" of America is very different from yours.
This has to be one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. I would first look for 50,000 American citizens who currently live in poverty and might appreciate the opportunity to reestablish themselves in an American city with government help. The last thing we need is another immigrant enclave of people who will not assimilate.
168
just like our farms jobs go begging for American pickers; so goes cities like Detroit. Short of a forced migration or paid incentives, Americans are not going to flock to Detroit. Look at the homeless situation in the big cities for another example; they'll stay through a brutal winter rather than migrate, even just for the winter.
The Cheyanne and Algonquin were thinking the same thing around the year 1496.
We abandoned the our poor, We have a republican party calls them moocher.
What do you mean give them a chance, Republican party is cutting SNAP, education help etc. why do we need poor people in America.
What do you mean give them a chance, Republican party is cutting SNAP, education help etc. why do we need poor people in America.
1
Taking a group en masse and sticking them in one place virtually assures a lack of integration into the society. What you are suggesting is a Banlieu in middle America. Why would it work here when it did not work in France, a country with far more social spending per capita.
89
Because French society is much more homogeneous and far too demanding, expecting full assimilation virtually on day one. While many Americans seem to want this as well we of course do have a long history of various national/ethnic groups settling here and more gradually assimilating while also adding to the ever-evolving American culture.
Refugees received immediate taxpayer support and this alone encourages the worst of immigrants to try for refugee status.
The sense of entitlement of the immigrants in French banlieues is shocking. After being given free housing, medical care, food, and welfare there have been further demands for the French people to respect their failed culture.
The sense of entitlement of the immigrants in French banlieues is shocking. After being given free housing, medical care, food, and welfare there have been further demands for the French people to respect their failed culture.
I've lived in metro Detroit for 32 years. My community welcomed refugees from Albania and Bosnia in the early 90s. The first generation immigrant works ferociously hard to establish a secure life, the second generation assimilates better into American life and culture. I would welcome Syrian refugees to our city and our beautiful state. The cultural mix in metro Detroit is fantastic, fascinating, and energizing. The more the merrier!
16
One of the problems to expanding legal immigration is perhaps massive illegal immigration. With legal immigration, you can plan and choose who you select where as with the current illegal immigration you do not get infectious disease screening and end up with whoever is able to enter or stay here illegally.
Before we we expand immigration we should control it. For each illegal immigrant we prevent from entering, we could substitute a legal immigrant, and have the same total immigration.
Before we we expand immigration we should control it. For each illegal immigrant we prevent from entering, we could substitute a legal immigrant, and have the same total immigration.
Did those hard-working 1990's refugees do a good job in revitalizing Detroit?
Have you ventured into the city's fantastically fascinating culturally mixed streets from your elegant Grosse Pointe neighborhood to see how merry things are?
Have you ventured into the city's fantastically fascinating culturally mixed streets from your elegant Grosse Pointe neighborhood to see how merry things are?
What an insulting suggestion. To claim the Syrian refugees can "save" Detroit when Americans can't epitomizes a self-loathing we see too much of lately. Given the right resources, American groups of all or any ethnicities can revitalize Detroit and without them, no group will be able to. Revitalizing Detroit is not a task that requires war survivors, it is a task that requires money. Lots of money. Suggesting we need a refugee community to redevelop the city is a foot in the face to the residents..
104
Perhaps it's my self-loathing breaking through but I have become very skeptical lately that Americans are any good at organizing anything. I think if Americans were capable of turning around Detroit it would have happened by now.
This is as ludicrous as it is insulting. Let's import any and all people from the Middle East. They have clearly gotten along with other nations and have been open to ideas like separation of church and state for centuries. And I'm sure this generous gesture by the United States will dawn some light on Isis and they'll stop looting, kidnapping and beheading any and all who aren't down with caliphate. Nonsense.
124
Have you looked at Oklahoma, Indiana and Missouri recently? I don't see that Americans are supporting "separation of Church and State." Immigrants from a regions that has been the crossroads of the world for millenia can only help increase tolerance.
I think the idea is worth trying on a test basis with maybe a few thousand refugees at most. American cities have always been the the gateway to immigrants seeking a better life and immigrants would feel more grounded in a community surrounded by people who share their culture. However, it would be critical to ensure that are there are enough jobs available in Detroit to get them started on a path to self-sufficiency. The last thing Detroit needs is more destitute people living in the center city without jobs. From what I have seen and read, that doesn't appear to be the case.
6
I have no doubt that they are ambitious and will rebuild the houses if given the chance. The problem is there is no employment available. Everyone cannot just start a convenience store. Somehow there has to be employment which produces actual products.
35
Right. If there were jobs around, one assumes that long-time residents of Detroit would be working at them.
Among the many stupid flaws in this argument -- Detroit already has a lot of Arab immigrants and citizens of Arab ancestry. How's that working out? Sure, many run small stores and bodegas, but has it helped the city? More likely those Arab American live in the Detroit suburbs (still surprisingly nice) and exploit poor blacks in the inner city. As you correctly note, more shops and shop keepers won't address the lack of jobs and opportunities in Detroit.
Why not resettle a couple of million illegal Mexican or Central American immigrants instead? They are already HERE. We need another 2 million immigrants like we need a lobotomy.
Why not resettle a couple of million illegal Mexican or Central American immigrants instead? They are already HERE. We need another 2 million immigrants like we need a lobotomy.
A most imaginative suggestion. The Muezzin's call to prayer drifting over the hulk of an American city...brilliant!
25
Leftists are so delusional that they would pretend to welcome this rather than 'offend' some religious nutbags feelings
ChampsE,
Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with a Muezzin calling Muslims to prayer in America? Are you suggesting that America is mono-religious society - a Christian nation, perhaps?
Are you suggesting that there's something wrong with a Muezzin calling Muslims to prayer in America? Are you suggesting that America is mono-religious society - a Christian nation, perhaps?
1
So now we want the government to sponsor and create an immigrant community that is based on national ethnicity? Just yesterday on NPR I heard a long history of how today's black ghettos were the creation of earlier government rules and regulations and it was a bad thing. You folks on the liberal side have to make up your minds on this social engineering.
The reality is the government has no place in determining or guiding where anyone lives, much less doing so by ethnicity. If a conservative proposed this it would be characterized as racism.
The reality is the government has no place in determining or guiding where anyone lives, much less doing so by ethnicity. If a conservative proposed this it would be characterized as racism.
32
the reality is that government has some place in determining and guiding because if government doesn't, who will? big business? corporations? private charities? private militias? religious groups? anarchists?
the question is not yes government or no government, it's how much, when, and where.
in general the idea of this article is a bad one, as other commenters have pointed out but it's a big jump from a bad idea to the idea that government has no place.
the question is not yes government or no government, it's how much, when, and where.
in general the idea of this article is a bad one, as other commenters have pointed out but it's a big jump from a bad idea to the idea that government has no place.
One should consider why a Republican governor from a party generally opposed to immigration and generally antagonistic towards people from the Middle East would want an influx of refugees from Syria. Bottom line? Refugees = Cheap Labor.
10
Syrians traumatized by war and loss of their homeland are going to need a lot of mental health services. Prepare for that before you start making big plans for resettlement.
I suspect there are lots of Americans already here who would be happy to move to Detroit if there was some incentive, like a small business loan and a new home. Probably cheaper to do that than transplant people from a completely different country and culture...
I suspect there are lots of Americans already here who would be happy to move to Detroit if there was some incentive, like a small business loan and a new home. Probably cheaper to do that than transplant people from a completely different country and culture...
51
There already ARE such incentives, and they've been around for a while. See:
http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2011/07/would_you_move_t...
The problem is that Americans don't want to move (nor should they necessarily want to). Syrians, in contrast, don't have a choice.
http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2011/07/would_you_move_t...
The problem is that Americans don't want to move (nor should they necessarily want to). Syrians, in contrast, don't have a choice.
I had a lots better idea, sfdphd from san francisco -- your city has TONS of high tech jobs and astronomical housing/living costs.
How about the President using his charisma plus Executive Orders (he's real good at that last one!) to compel a few high tech companies to relocate to Detroit? I'd say Apple and Google, to start.
You don't need 'em and their loss would lower housing prices. Detroit DOES need them, and the move would require an exodus of talented, smart, educated people from Northern California to Southern Michigan.
What do you say to that?
How about the President using his charisma plus Executive Orders (he's real good at that last one!) to compel a few high tech companies to relocate to Detroit? I'd say Apple and Google, to start.
You don't need 'em and their loss would lower housing prices. Detroit DOES need them, and the move would require an exodus of talented, smart, educated people from Northern California to Southern Michigan.
What do you say to that?
Baghdad on the Lake.
14
Detroit's waterfront is a river.
Baghdad is in Iraq.
This idea is splendid. It should be extended to other nations with refugee issues. Detroit's east side would be ideal: already lots of Syrian grocers and restaurants.
3
This is definitely not a good idea! I'm all for having Syrians coming to the US, but definitely not an infusion of 50,000 + to Detroit. Whoever wrote this column has not lived in and has probably never even visited the metropolitan Detroit area. It should also be noted that the Michigan governor is full of bad ideas.
33
A terrible idea. In Europe, we have seen the consequences of large-scale Muslim immigration. The first generation may be fine, but the second and third generations, who forget the travails that their parents or grandparents were fleeing from, have turned on those people who have taken them in. The fact is that the Muslim religion is extremely corrosive and threatening to Western values. Extremists believe it is right to kill the infidel (which are all non-Muslims), and that women and gays are not better than second class citizens. Immigration is a question of numbers, and putting huge numbers of Syrians in one place is a recipe for disaster. Once the cancer takes hold, it is extremely difficult to eradicate.
91
No, the outcome of muslim immigration are diverse.
Whenever muslim had to integrate, they did. But when they were ghettoized, like in Paris or London, they went into a vicious circle of poverty and violence.
You might read about vietnamese people in germany ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people_in_Germany ). Because before the reunion they were treated totally different, one solution made them middle-class, the other a minority with a stigma.
It is not muslims, or any other minority, it is how they are settled.
And shunting them into a town with bleak opportunities is grossly unfair. It is even for americans hard to prosper in this enviroment. They will fail, they will act in violence in desperation, they will get stigmatised. They don't deserve that.
Whenever muslim had to integrate, they did. But when they were ghettoized, like in Paris or London, they went into a vicious circle of poverty and violence.
You might read about vietnamese people in germany ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_people_in_Germany ). Because before the reunion they were treated totally different, one solution made them middle-class, the other a minority with a stigma.
It is not muslims, or any other minority, it is how they are settled.
And shunting them into a town with bleak opportunities is grossly unfair. It is even for americans hard to prosper in this enviroment. They will fail, they will act in violence in desperation, they will get stigmatised. They don't deserve that.
12
Islam is not "extremely corrosive and threatening to Western values", MC. Islam in Arab countries is an extreme version of Islam, just as we have extreme and "corrosive" versions of Christianity in the US. Indonesians, for example, are mostly Muslims, and they do not follow the extreme version of Islam promoted by, for example, ISIS. You will see very few Muslim women in Indonesia wearing the Hijab, whereas women in the Middle East nations are required to wear the hijab in public, based on Arabic reading of the Koran.
Keep telling yourself that. Multikulti is an absolute failure when it comes to Muslims and the outcome of largescale Muslim immigration is no diverse. Everywhere it has occurred it has been a disaster. Do I need to cite the examples? 9/11 terrorists based in a cell in Hamburg, Germany; decapitation of Lee Rigby in London and the 7/7 bus bombings in London, 2004 bombings of train stations in Madrid, Toulouse and Montauban killings in France, CH murders, honor killings and abuse of girls, etc., etc. Thanks, but no thanks.
1
Wrong direction. Let's get those left in Detroit to go settle in Syria. That would have a chance of improving both places. Syria to Detroit would make both places worse.
34
Firstly let me say that America's rust belt would be well served by a huge influx of immigrants. I have advocated the establishment of a Palestinian or Jewish State in the area for a number of years.
The criticism I would offer is that it takes years to develop an urban mentality. Detroit is again becoming a vibrant urban environment bringing in young urbanites looking for the experiences that only a diverse cosmopolitan center can provide . The world is becoming too urbanized too quickly and all the world's great cities are all looking for the talent the authors describe in today's op-ed.
Yesterday I had suggested our small economically depressed town could use 3-5 thousand Syrians possessing the skills described in the essay.
The best and the brightest are already flocking to Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. It is the small towns, small cities and villages that need the new blood and new ideas Syrian, Iraqi and Palestinian refugees have to offer. The best and brightest will find their way to Chicago, Detroit and Los Angeles eventually. Detroit is lifting itself off the mat and is showing every sign of returning to life. It is Flint, Gary and all the other small cities, small towns and villages that need the influx of new blood and ideas and people in 2015. Cities are like the The Field of Dreams build them and they will come we need people for our other places..
The criticism I would offer is that it takes years to develop an urban mentality. Detroit is again becoming a vibrant urban environment bringing in young urbanites looking for the experiences that only a diverse cosmopolitan center can provide . The world is becoming too urbanized too quickly and all the world's great cities are all looking for the talent the authors describe in today's op-ed.
Yesterday I had suggested our small economically depressed town could use 3-5 thousand Syrians possessing the skills described in the essay.
The best and the brightest are already flocking to Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. It is the small towns, small cities and villages that need the new blood and new ideas Syrian, Iraqi and Palestinian refugees have to offer. The best and brightest will find their way to Chicago, Detroit and Los Angeles eventually. Detroit is lifting itself off the mat and is showing every sign of returning to life. It is Flint, Gary and all the other small cities, small towns and villages that need the influx of new blood and ideas and people in 2015. Cities are like the The Field of Dreams build them and they will come we need people for our other places..
19
Clearly, Moe, you've never been to Detroit and are believing some PR-influenced articles in the media. Detroit is worse than it ever was, and the "young urbanites" and artists are a tiny minority in a few pockets.
Also, we have TONS of immigrants and Detroit has a huge Arab population already. We hardly need MORE. The reasons that young people flock to big cities in the US or in Canada is JOBS -- they might actually prefer the smaller town or village, or the lower cost of living, but they have NO CHOICE if they want a decent career. There are no jobs in Detroit, which is WHY it is an abandoned hellhole. Detroit is NOT returning to life.
Dude, I will personally come to Montreal and drive you to Detroit to see it for yourself, because you are delusional. And cities are not like "FIeld of Dreams'. You can build and build and build, and it is worthless if you don't have JOBS FIRST.
Also, we have TONS of immigrants and Detroit has a huge Arab population already. We hardly need MORE. The reasons that young people flock to big cities in the US or in Canada is JOBS -- they might actually prefer the smaller town or village, or the lower cost of living, but they have NO CHOICE if they want a decent career. There are no jobs in Detroit, which is WHY it is an abandoned hellhole. Detroit is NOT returning to life.
Dude, I will personally come to Montreal and drive you to Detroit to see it for yourself, because you are delusional. And cities are not like "FIeld of Dreams'. You can build and build and build, and it is worthless if you don't have JOBS FIRST.
So you want to move Israeli Arabs or Jews to a community in America.
Been tried in WWII to segregate Jews into Ghettos, didn't work out too well.
Been tried in WWII to segregate Jews into Ghettos, didn't work out too well.
How many ISIS terrorists do the authors expect to be among 50,000 immigrants from Syria?
49
Do you think they really care?
6
Possibly one of the most ignorant comments I have read this week, which is saying a lot. The ISIS fighters are coming from all over, including the US and Europe. The Syrian refugees are FLEEING ISIS.
1
The estimates are 1%.
The UK has two million Muslim immigrants, so do the math.
How it benefits an uneducated unskilled religious fundamentalist refugee is obvious, as they immediately qualify for taxpayer funded services the likes of which few citizens will ever see.
How it benefits any First World country has been made clear from decades of accepting tens of millions of Third World refugees, in that it does not.
The UK has two million Muslim immigrants, so do the math.
How it benefits an uneducated unskilled religious fundamentalist refugee is obvious, as they immediately qualify for taxpayer funded services the likes of which few citizens will ever see.
How it benefits any First World country has been made clear from decades of accepting tens of millions of Third World refugees, in that it does not.
1
Oh sure, we can't help our black population - let bring in a totally new downtrodden people that are totally clueless about US values and pour money in them. What nonsense we go looking for more trouble...
151
Yours is among the best comments here. Urban Detroit is overwhelmingly black and poor -- and we can't help them AT ALL. We can't get jobs for them. We can't get companies to hire them. We can't provide a decent education for them.
Do you seriously think what they need is 1.8 million Syrian refugees -- who don't speak English -- are utterly traumatized -- will need to be on welfare and food stamps for YEARS -- will compete with those poor black Detroiters for the very few jobs left -- do you think that will HELP? or make things exponentially worse?
Do you seriously think what they need is 1.8 million Syrian refugees -- who don't speak English -- are utterly traumatized -- will need to be on welfare and food stamps for YEARS -- will compete with those poor black Detroiters for the very few jobs left -- do you think that will HELP? or make things exponentially worse?
1
What a bigoted statement. "clueless about US values." Which values are you talking about? Surely not our national motto, "e pluribus unum," with which you do not seem familiar.
Yes. Let's move these poor schmucks from one hellhole to another. I suggest both authors invite the Syrians to there own neighborhoods where the standard of living is, in all probability, much better than Detroit.
36
I note that one author, Dr. Laitin, is from Stanford Unitveristy in gorgeous, super-expensive Palo Alto, California.
The other author seems to live in desirable, super-expensive New York City.
Neither of them are suggesting a massive influx of Syrian refugees -- uneducated, non-English speaking, desperately poor -- to Palo Alto or NYC.
How blatant IS this Nimybism? "We toffs don't want these unpleasant refugee folks, but we will dump them on the poor suffering people of Detroit. I'm sure it will all work out! Ta-ta!"
I'll believe Dr. Laitin when he tells us that Palo Alto is building a huge refugee settlement project for those Syrians .... in his gated community.
The other author seems to live in desirable, super-expensive New York City.
Neither of them are suggesting a massive influx of Syrian refugees -- uneducated, non-English speaking, desperately poor -- to Palo Alto or NYC.
How blatant IS this Nimybism? "We toffs don't want these unpleasant refugee folks, but we will dump them on the poor suffering people of Detroit. I'm sure it will all work out! Ta-ta!"
I'll believe Dr. Laitin when he tells us that Palo Alto is building a huge refugee settlement project for those Syrians .... in his gated community.
Yes, let's send them to Detroit. Then they can toss their suicidal bombs and before you realize it, there will be no Detroit. Problem solved.
Remember how well it has worked in Minnesota with the lost boys? They are now going back to join ISIS
Remember how well it has worked in Minnesota with the lost boys? They are now going back to join ISIS
39
The writers of this opinion need to walk the streets of America's cities, any of them, and you will see homeless Americans, or find Americans crowded into substandard housing. Then go to the schools in the poorer sections of our cities and you will find a huge number of children who are homeless, living in temporary shelters or in overcrowded substandard housing.
Our federal and state government have a unique opportunity with Detriot to revitalize its abandoned housing stock and a create mixed-use, mixed-income vibrant community and give a helping hand to deserving Americans.
Our federal and state government have a unique opportunity with Detriot to revitalize its abandoned housing stock and a create mixed-use, mixed-income vibrant community and give a helping hand to deserving Americans.
93
Our State and Federal governments have utterly failed Detroit. They've basically decided to toss Detroit to the wolves.
After all, the folks making the decisions all drive foreign made cars -- from Japan or Germany -- so who cares what happens to those tacky folks who used to make Chevys and Dodges and Fords? They are tacky and lower middle class. They may listen to Fox News. They are "low information voters". Who cares about them?
Imagine what would happen if President Obama has used his influence and power (especially early on, when he was a lefty darling) to get the late Steve Jobs to bring back Apple manufacturing from Foxconn in China .... to Detroit? Jobs was dying and had nothing to lose; it would have been a grand gesture on his way out. And it would have raised the cost of an iPhone by a measly $50....nothing that stop the fanatics from buying every new version the second it appears.
You can build and build and build, but there is no cure for poverty BUT JOBS....real jobs. Not fake "make work" jobs. Not welfare handouts. Not housing projects or planned communities.
JOBS!
After all, the folks making the decisions all drive foreign made cars -- from Japan or Germany -- so who cares what happens to those tacky folks who used to make Chevys and Dodges and Fords? They are tacky and lower middle class. They may listen to Fox News. They are "low information voters". Who cares about them?
Imagine what would happen if President Obama has used his influence and power (especially early on, when he was a lefty darling) to get the late Steve Jobs to bring back Apple manufacturing from Foxconn in China .... to Detroit? Jobs was dying and had nothing to lose; it would have been a grand gesture on his way out. And it would have raised the cost of an iPhone by a measly $50....nothing that stop the fanatics from buying every new version the second it appears.
You can build and build and build, but there is no cure for poverty BUT JOBS....real jobs. Not fake "make work" jobs. Not welfare handouts. Not housing projects or planned communities.
JOBS!
great idea!
(note sarcasm)
(note sarcasm)
5
There are parts of Detroit that look worse than Damascus or Aleppo.
15
Is this Aprit 1st? Did the staff of The Onion take over the NYT OP-ed section? Did the authors bring home some green souvenirs from WA or CO? No, wait, I get it now!...this is just one big trolling exercise. Because this idea cannot be a serious ("modest") proposal.
33
They will flee Detroit for the coasts like everyone else.
You cannot create wealth in an area with no industry, and congress is busy shipping that overseas again.
You cannot create wealth in an area with no industry, and congress is busy shipping that overseas again.
22
Once here, no refugee group could possibly be compelled to STAY in a hellhole like Detroit with no employment.
In a few months -- a year at the most -- 80% of those Syrians would be headed en mass to the most overcrowded urban centers around the US, exacerbating problems in those places. Their young people would likely end up angry and frustrated, and drawn to terrorist groups promising "paradise". Think about the Tscharnaev brothers, for gods sake!
In a few months -- a year at the most -- 80% of those Syrians would be headed en mass to the most overcrowded urban centers around the US, exacerbating problems in those places. Their young people would likely end up angry and frustrated, and drawn to terrorist groups promising "paradise". Think about the Tscharnaev brothers, for gods sake!
1
While we're at it, let's give Texas to Israel. It will solve another of the Middle East problems.
24
I must have missed the story about the end of homelessness in the United States.
37
If we bring people in to better our communities could we likewise send some out for the same purpose?
Does Australia still take "transports?"
Does Australia still take "transports?"
2
I remember when Detroit had 2 million residents, way back when I was a small child in the mid 1950s. City had 24/7 public transit back then, including the last streetcar line(it's coming back next year), and every city zipcode had it's own neighborhood downtown, Today the population stands at 680.000 and is still shrinking. There is room, lots of room, for new residents..Detroit 48211, once a popular destination for immigrants from Poland, Albania, and Iraq is mostly an urban prairie today with much land available for new settlement and investment. Northeast Detroit 48212, just north of Hamtramck 48212(Michigan's most ethnically and racially diverse zipcode)has lots of abandoned residential and business properties in the E.McNichols(6 Mile)/E. Davison areas from Ryan to Mound Roads. All are welcome. There's room for future growth in these areas, much room.
8
But alas, no jobs.
I remember Detroit from the late 60s -- even 70s. Anyone who has not visited in the last 15 years has NO IDEA what an absolute hollowed-out wreck the city is today.
I remember Detroit from the late 60s -- even 70s. Anyone who has not visited in the last 15 years has NO IDEA what an absolute hollowed-out wreck the city is today.
2
People in Ivory Towers want everyone else to live in diverse communities. But they only pretend to live in diverse communities. Stanford's idea of a diverse community for itself is a bunch of rich, educated, academics from different places of the world. The diversity experiment for Detroit will be poor, uneducated, religiously extreme people from different places of the world.
30
It's worth noting that the "skepticism" of the republican party toward immigration is related primarily to *illegal* immigration.
11
Primarily but not exclusively. Don't be afraid to own it: the Republicans
are xenophobes who look askance at almost all immigration, particularly
of non-Christians and non-English speakers.
are xenophobes who look askance at almost all immigration, particularly
of non-Christians and non-English speakers.
Chump:
Are there xenophobes in both parties? Sure. But to paint an entire party this way has more to do with an inability of the non-republican to understand and tolerate certain opposing viewpoints than anything else.
Are there xenophobes in both parties? Sure. But to paint an entire party this way has more to do with an inability of the non-republican to understand and tolerate certain opposing viewpoints than anything else.
That's like telling them they can't fall off the floor.
Send some Californians to Detroit for the water.
18
I wish, especially the Californians that have been here since the start of the tech bubble. It is not like 1s and 0s cannot be moved anywhere anytime simultaneously.
1
Why Syrians and not Africans, Yemenis, etc? This would be preferential treatment by the US towards one ethnic group.
10
Some groups deserve preferential treatment.
Preferential treatment happens every day.
Every Cuban migrant gets to stay immediately, green card in one year, citizenship in five.
Immediately qualifies for $19K per year, indefinitely, in SNAP, Medicaid, Section 8 housing and SSI.
And, after getting a green card, can visit Cuba all they like.
Every Cuban migrant gets to stay immediately, green card in one year, citizenship in five.
Immediately qualifies for $19K per year, indefinitely, in SNAP, Medicaid, Section 8 housing and SSI.
And, after getting a green card, can visit Cuba all they like.
1
Because these are people living in the midst of a war zone whose lives are in danger. Do you really think they would risk their lives to hop on rickety boats and cross the Mediterranean Sea otherwise?
1
Let me check with Sheldon Adelson.
3
It is obvious that the Detroiters cannot do it so bring someone in. When you realize you are not capable yourself it is wise to bring in someone who can get the job done. I salute Detroit for recognizing this.
1
We can't do this, that would mean sharia law, the fear of every right winger. Lions and tigers and bears oh my. Doing Detroit and these poor people good comes with too much baggage, sharia law, oh my.
The last thing we need to do is try to rebuild one of America's great cities by bringing in people who would jump at the chance to revitalize the area. Especially since there is already a large concentration of muslims in that area. Truth is helping out those in need is the chirstian thing to do and thus the reason right wingers must be opposed.
Leviticus 19:34
The last thing we need to do is try to rebuild one of America's great cities by bringing in people who would jump at the chance to revitalize the area. Especially since there is already a large concentration of muslims in that area. Truth is helping out those in need is the chirstian thing to do and thus the reason right wingers must be opposed.
Leviticus 19:34
3
Yes! This is an idea that deserves due scrutiny. It's new and brash and daring, kind of like an entrepreneur- give it a chance. And inviting Syrians does not mean excluding Americans who need a second chance- I do not think the author meant this approach to be exclusive of poor non-Syrians. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
16
So Canada will welcome them then?
Is this the NY Times or the Onion?
1. The U.S. destroyed Syria with its dreadful plans for regime change. How do the U.S. and Saudi Arabia decide that a government should be over thrown and its people displace in the process? The carnage should stop and the U.S. should pay reparations to the people it dispossessed. Syrians would then be able to live in, um, Syria.
2. The banks whose derivatives schemes finally pushed Detroit over the edge into bankruptcy should pay up. They need to pay reparations. That would develop Detroit.
3. If the U.S. government has money for Ukraine, it certainly ought to have money for Michigan.
4. Michigan voters rejected the emergency manager law which governed Detroit's bankruptcy. Gov. Snyder acted against the expressed will of the voters.
I could go on, but this is the worst thing I have read in a long time. BTW, I fail to see why Detroit having a white mayor is worthy of note or proof of improvement in the city's fortunes.
1. The U.S. destroyed Syria with its dreadful plans for regime change. How do the U.S. and Saudi Arabia decide that a government should be over thrown and its people displace in the process? The carnage should stop and the U.S. should pay reparations to the people it dispossessed. Syrians would then be able to live in, um, Syria.
2. The banks whose derivatives schemes finally pushed Detroit over the edge into bankruptcy should pay up. They need to pay reparations. That would develop Detroit.
3. If the U.S. government has money for Ukraine, it certainly ought to have money for Michigan.
4. Michigan voters rejected the emergency manager law which governed Detroit's bankruptcy. Gov. Snyder acted against the expressed will of the voters.
I could go on, but this is the worst thing I have read in a long time. BTW, I fail to see why Detroit having a white mayor is worthy of note or proof of improvement in the city's fortunes.
47
First offer all of these benefits to Detroiters, then to other Americans, and after that to refugees. There's lots of refugees in the world so lets make a list and objectively decide which ones to bring to America. There's plenty of people in line for immigration so let's be fair. Yes things are bad in Syria, but they are also real bad in other countries. For example, Nepal has suffered two earthquakes in one week. etc.
56
"First offer all those benefits to Detroiters..." Already done, four years ago and more. http://www.mlive.com/business/detroit/index.ssf/2011/07/would_you_move_t...
Has helped, but it's not enough.
Has helped, but it's not enough.
Notice that Detroit is not in either author's back yard.
118
Both authors live in pricey, exclusive all white (or white/asian) communities with almost no poverty -- and undoubtedly in premiere, exclusive housing that is utterly unaffordable to most Americans, let alone Syrians.
In short, they are suggesting something they will never have to see or experience, deciding it is "good enough" for those losers in Detroit.
In short, they are suggesting something they will never have to see or experience, deciding it is "good enough" for those losers in Detroit.
1
"“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.”
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
27
Import Jihad. Brilliant.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how disastrous the outcome would be having horrible and destructive liberal policies applied towards jihadist refugees.
Or maybe we should just export Detroit's "leadership" to Syria. It would take a while, but eventually Syrians would be too lazy and stoned to wage their Civil War.
On the other hand, it would be interesting to see how disastrous the outcome would be having horrible and destructive liberal policies applied towards jihadist refugees.
Or maybe we should just export Detroit's "leadership" to Syria. It would take a while, but eventually Syrians would be too lazy and stoned to wage their Civil War.
21
"Import Jihad. Brilliant."
Well, I wouldn't say that. But it is true that the other day, The New York Times ran a headline that read something to the tune of "Many Women and Children Among the Refugees." When I read further, I saw that the "many women and children" numbered about 110.
The rest of the 1,500 refugees were men. The accompanying photograph showed only men. Oh, great, I thought. And where are the women? Do we want men who'd leave 'em behind?
Well, I wouldn't say that. But it is true that the other day, The New York Times ran a headline that read something to the tune of "Many Women and Children Among the Refugees." When I read further, I saw that the "many women and children" numbered about 110.
The rest of the 1,500 refugees were men. The accompanying photograph showed only men. Oh, great, I thought. And where are the women? Do we want men who'd leave 'em behind?
Crazy idea! We should settle Detroit with undocumented workers that currently live in this country. Of course after legalizing them. We have the people in this country to re-develop Detroit.
11
We have done far more for longer to destabilize Central America with our drug habits. The Middle East would be a mess regardless of our actions. Central America is in our back yard. What about drug war refugees from Honduras?
4
At least people from central america have some cultural bonds with the US-- these middle east refugees - nada. Can't compare the large existing population of arabs with a bunch of backwards refugees-- that is unfair to people who came with skills; people who attended U of M and stayed, etc.
First of all I read couple of paragraphs only. One of stupidest idea. Immigration should happen with love and compassion. I don't want to see Detroit as another no go zone in U.S.A like many in France. After all, I guarantee these folks complain on U.S.A for everything in their lives and can nurture terrorism inside U.S. Any how I am Indian and loves America lived there for five years.
17
Why not give refugee visas to Palestinians from Gaza, bomb wrecked by Israel they would rebuild dilapidated neighborhoods of Detroit.
8
why not make detroit 'israel' and give the palestinians some breathing room?
2
right ... then the relocated Palestinians can launch thousands of missiles from Detroit to the rest of America (and Canada!).
We have not earned the right to suggest that OTHER people take in refugees; we either have to volunteer to take them into our own neighborhoods or keep our mouths shut. Or maybe you could raise the money to buy three blocks in Detroit, rehab the houses, and make them available to refugees, and move there yourself to help them.
12
How about Dr. Laitin relocating the "Immigration and Integration Policy Lab" of Stanford U, to Detroit? and then moving there? (And by this, I do not mean "moving to an affluent suburb of Detroit" but to DOWNTOWN Detroit.)
hahahahaha.
hahahahaha.
1
I'll just leave this here:
<>
There are probably hundreds of reasons Detroit's population fell faster than a Florida nursing home. The biggest reason it hasn't come back like New York, Chicago and L.A. did, is that we make cars and sell crack, firstly; and we're surrounded by more than a few racist trolls who already see Detroit as a vast unsettled prairie. They even use fun Old West-style slurs like "savages" and "animals".
No, we don't need a Detroit Homestead Act of 2015. We need a government that isn't centrally controlled from Lansing and a secure financial future that isn't mortgaged to fraudulent deals made by an ex-mayor.
<>
There are probably hundreds of reasons Detroit's population fell faster than a Florida nursing home. The biggest reason it hasn't come back like New York, Chicago and L.A. did, is that we make cars and sell crack, firstly; and we're surrounded by more than a few racist trolls who already see Detroit as a vast unsettled prairie. They even use fun Old West-style slurs like "savages" and "animals".
No, we don't need a Detroit Homestead Act of 2015. We need a government that isn't centrally controlled from Lansing and a secure financial future that isn't mortgaged to fraudulent deals made by an ex-mayor.
30
Chicago hasn't come back - it's on its way - to bankruptcy.
When our very weak Governor Snyder can't figure out how to fix our potholes and falling down bridges, I wouldn't want to burden him with an influx of refugees. Thanks but no thanks.
38
Why to settle only in Detroit?
Immigrants used to chose in what part of America suit them to live.
Immigrants used to chose in what part of America suit them to live.
7
How about no? You can see how well bringing refugee types from the middle east has worked for places in Europe like Paris (riots), London ("Death to those who insult Islam), and Amsterdam (murders of Dutch nationals).
Outsourcing our economy to these third world nations hasn't worked and there is no way insourcing these same nations to help rebuild here will, either.
Outsourcing our economy to these third world nations hasn't worked and there is no way insourcing these same nations to help rebuild here will, either.
26
This is brilliant.
2
This sort of idiocy is exactly what we expect from clueless academic from Stanford and a politico from New York. This is what Detroit doesn't need: Thousands of refugees with no capital.
The Motor City is going through a resurgence now, and doesn't need "advice" from these two.
The Motor City is going through a resurgence now, and doesn't need "advice" from these two.
97
Bob said it right. "No, that would be extremely unwise. Thanks anyway."
21
No, that would be extremely unwise. Thanks anyway.
52
Possibly the stupidest thing I've every heard. How about this instead. Why not incentify Americans to move to Detroit and help them rebuild this great American city.
145
Unless you gave me about $2 million dollars, I would not remotely dream of going to Detroit, because it's a rundown, ugly hellhole with no jobs. Since I am not independently wealthy, I would require a JOB to support my family. And Detroit has no jobs (excepting maybe "crack dealer").
So it would be very costly to import a bunch of people (of any ethnicity) to Detroit, because they would just end up on welfare and driven to things like drug dealing and prostitution to survive. When even that failed, they would simply LEAVE and go to overcrowded urban areas with big immigrant populations, where they would sit around on welfare and ferment ideas of jihad against the stupid Americans who sent them to the hellhole of Detroit to begin with.
So it would be very costly to import a bunch of people (of any ethnicity) to Detroit, because they would just end up on welfare and driven to things like drug dealing and prostitution to survive. When even that failed, they would simply LEAVE and go to overcrowded urban areas with big immigrant populations, where they would sit around on welfare and ferment ideas of jihad against the stupid Americans who sent them to the hellhole of Detroit to begin with.
I guess the American taxpayer will once again be on the hook for these ambitious myopic ideas!
40
America has the obligation to pay for its wars in the World as it did in Japan,Korea,Vietnam etc.
The planning for the GORDIE HOWE INTERNATIONAL BRIDGE just announced today. It'll be a new crossing between between Windsor, Ontario and DETROIT - already the busiest border crossing on planet earth. $1 billion a day right now. Jobs WILL be created because of the coming bridge. Lots of them.
8
An example of elite New Yorkers being so out of touch with their "solutions" for the rest of the county, and reality itself, that it's amusing.
39
Stanford is in your state.
2
I agree, pnkearns; their detachment from reality is truly astounding.
2
Unfortunately, I doubt the author of the article has read enough about why what's happening in France is happening, or knows anything about Gov. Synder's history (and what he will do to join the presidential race), and I say this from Manhattan. It's very easy to make off-the-cuff remarks when you haven't researched the history and don't know the people. It has often been the case that these comment sections from the people fill in the missing holes is the research on these opinion pieces.
Newsflash: we have people of our own who need homes.
146
How about a little commitment and coordination of various agencies to support Detroit's existing population? This urban decay was a man made disaster, not a natural one.
Deindustrialization was a carefully crafted economic policy originating from the finance sector. Banking laws were changed, as were trade agreements, tariffs, tax laws and currency laws. Together they made it possible to dramatically shift US owned industries from cities like Detroit to foreign lands.
We could have made investments in infrastructure, education and technology in Detroit, but we didn't. The corporate finance boys prefered a system that allowed them to operate with no labor or environmental restraints and still ship their products back to Detroit cheaper than they could be made there. Let's not leave out the issue of race. Once Detroit's black population could no longer be contained, they were simply abandoned.
Immigrants have helped to revitalize a number of cities and might do the same for Detroit. But let's add them to the mix, not create special programs for them, but to the exclusion of Detroit's own displaced and excluded.
I'm all for humanitarian assistance for the Syrian refugees that have been created largely from our misplaced policies, but it's also time to practice serious human rights at home. So why not start with Detroit?
Deindustrialization was a carefully crafted economic policy originating from the finance sector. Banking laws were changed, as were trade agreements, tariffs, tax laws and currency laws. Together they made it possible to dramatically shift US owned industries from cities like Detroit to foreign lands.
We could have made investments in infrastructure, education and technology in Detroit, but we didn't. The corporate finance boys prefered a system that allowed them to operate with no labor or environmental restraints and still ship their products back to Detroit cheaper than they could be made there. Let's not leave out the issue of race. Once Detroit's black population could no longer be contained, they were simply abandoned.
Immigrants have helped to revitalize a number of cities and might do the same for Detroit. But let's add them to the mix, not create special programs for them, but to the exclusion of Detroit's own displaced and excluded.
I'm all for humanitarian assistance for the Syrian refugees that have been created largely from our misplaced policies, but it's also time to practice serious human rights at home. So why not start with Detroit?
93
We could have, and should have had a Marshall plan for New Orleans. But we chose not to. I wish we would for detroit.
How about....no.
72
I think we should settle some of the Americans who lost jobs and houses in the recession. What a ridiculous column. Maybe we should send all the poor illegal Mexican manicurists? Or how about the guys who stand on corners look for work a half the minimum wage?
Or how about the people who hire them and are driving down all wages for the middle class.
Or how about the people who hire them and are driving down all wages for the middle class.
63
Or, offer an incentive to American's "come to Detroit, rebuild this building and earn a home it it", creates jobs and rebuilds the city.
Trust me we do not need to be importing people who need or want a job and a home.
Trust me we do not need to be importing people who need or want a job and a home.
61
Shouldn't the goal be to resettle them in a place SAFER than Syria?
21
I'm sorry but we have 50 million Americans living in poverty. I heard on NPR yesterday that in King County (Seattle is within its borders) there are over 22,000 people on a waiting list for section 8 housing and the average wait is over three years. Who knows if we would just be importing our own ISIS or Al Qaeda. We don't need to import more impoverished people our Republican congress, Wall Street and multi-national corporations are doing a fine job of creating an ever increasing population of poor and nearly poor all on their own.
Detroit will get revitalized just as soon as all of the tax breaks are put into place, cheap land deals cut and government regulations and environmental concerns are brushed aside for the large greedy developers.
Detroit will get revitalized just as soon as all of the tax breaks are put into place, cheap land deals cut and government regulations and environmental concerns are brushed aside for the large greedy developers.
54
Terrible idea. We do not need more primitive third world Muslims, we need less.
38
Very true, just look at France with "no go" Muslim areas that even the police refuse to enter. We certainly do not need any more Muslims who do not want to assimilate into our secular culture and demand special protections for their beliefs.
5
The middle eastern community, such as the Lebanese, have been a great part of Detroit's history. This infusion may provide some hope and some nucleus for the city. Ultimately, become a source of political leadership in a city that has been so devoid of strong and intelligent people in its urban government.
3
That pretty much apartheid,
the US has it's own townships, it's gaza,
a big concentration camp,
where people are bound to fail.
the US has it's own townships, it's gaza,
a big concentration camp,
where people are bound to fail.
7
Matthias: you are clearly opinionated, but you don't have a clue about the US. We do not have townships nor concentration camps. There are poor areas, but anyone is free to leave at any time to go anywhere he/she pleases.
That's precisely WHY Detroit is an impoverished ghost town -- the people who COULD LEAVE (economically) left years ago. Those who are left are poor or lazy or unambitious (and the sick, elderly, drug addicts and so on).
That's precisely WHY Detroit is an impoverished ghost town -- the people who COULD LEAVE (economically) left years ago. Those who are left are poor or lazy or unambitious (and the sick, elderly, drug addicts and so on).
Confusing. There's nothing wrong with Detroit accepting these "poor, huddled masses" but how would these particular masses find work in such an urban wasteland?
68
Exactly!
No one said anything about work. In their next column the professors will explain how Detroit's social safety net will take care of everyone.
6
This article is pretty off base.
I don't want to seem combative, but I do want to clue the author in to an important fact: Detroit is already "settled". There are 700,000 human beings who live here and another couple million in the metro area. But yes, we welcome newcomers with open arms and there is plenty of room for more people, especially those who are in need.
Unfortunately it's not as simple as "Hey, we have a bunch of people who need a place to live, and oh wait a minute, here's a bunch of open houses." Many of these properties are delapidated beyond renovation, and when they are renovated, they are instantly scrapped if not inhabited. There is a huge housing shortage in Detroit in the viable and low-crime neighborhoods already and housing prices are through the roof. If it made financial and logistical sense to do these repairs and create new neighborhoods, people would be doing it already because the demand is there.
And finally, touting the election of a white mayor as an accomplishment alongside municipal bankruptcy restructuring and saving the DIA rubs me the wrong way. Yes, we elected a white mayor. But we have also had very successful black mayors in the past. What makes our mayor's whiteness an inherantly better thing?
I don't want to seem combative, but I do want to clue the author in to an important fact: Detroit is already "settled". There are 700,000 human beings who live here and another couple million in the metro area. But yes, we welcome newcomers with open arms and there is plenty of room for more people, especially those who are in need.
Unfortunately it's not as simple as "Hey, we have a bunch of people who need a place to live, and oh wait a minute, here's a bunch of open houses." Many of these properties are delapidated beyond renovation, and when they are renovated, they are instantly scrapped if not inhabited. There is a huge housing shortage in Detroit in the viable and low-crime neighborhoods already and housing prices are through the roof. If it made financial and logistical sense to do these repairs and create new neighborhoods, people would be doing it already because the demand is there.
And finally, touting the election of a white mayor as an accomplishment alongside municipal bankruptcy restructuring and saving the DIA rubs me the wrong way. Yes, we elected a white mayor. But we have also had very successful black mayors in the past. What makes our mayor's whiteness an inherantly better thing?
193
Actually, there are a number of American cities that have found themselves in decline in recent years and were able to reverse the decline by welcoming immigrants - whether Hmong, Somali, Arab, etc.
Detroit should not be afraid to try the same thing. If American history proves anything, it proves that immigration is always a net gain.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
Detroit should not be afraid to try the same thing. If American history proves anything, it proves that immigration is always a net gain.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
2
I started reading this trying to decide if it was satire, and I am still reading it trying to decide if it's satire. Is Jonathan Swift teaching at Stanford now?
If it's not satire, what about sending the dispossessed of THIS country to Detroit, one might ask? One doesn't have to look very carefully to find them. Let's see, there are a few in . . . Detroit, . . .
If it's not satire, what about sending the dispossessed of THIS country to Detroit, one might ask? One doesn't have to look very carefully to find them. Let's see, there are a few in . . . Detroit, . . .
215
I am not sure they are willing to go to live in Detroit. Unless they can drive a car, they will be completely alienated in Detroit, where you need to drive even for buying a gallon of milk. They may relocate to downtown Detroit, the downtown area needs new population and it would certainly benefit from an influx of newcomers. New supermarkets and grocery stores would open and many Syrian restaurant. That would be cool.
5
Why just Syrians? I'm South African and would happily move my family to Detroit rather than live in a country where being white is like having a major albatross around your neck.
49
In that case, you better not come to the United States, what with all the micro-aggressions being highlighted at bastions of intellectual prowess like UC Berserkely and Boston U.
7
You don't seem to know much about Detroit.
We'd be glad to have you. Not just in Detroit. New York, too. Many SA
ex-pats in the USA and they're good people.
ex-pats in the USA and they're good people.
What's wrong with Detroit? There are too few jobs and too many people. The auto industry has substantially moved to other countries and other parts of the US. How could this possibly be ameliorated by bringing in more people? Are the Syrians going to bring their own automobile industry with them? The author of this piece apparently has no grasp of basic economics.
Immigration was good for the US in the 19th century because industrialization and general expansion meant that abundant labor was needed. The situation is very different now.
Immigration was good for the US in the 19th century because industrialization and general expansion meant that abundant labor was needed. The situation is very different now.
182
Since we destabilized the middle east when we invaded Iraq, we bear a significant responsibility for the plight of the various groups that are now refugees in dire straights. Allowing them to immigrate to the US would be a humanitarian act. But placing them in large concentrations in one place would hinder their assimilation into American culture and values. Placeing them in an area of poverty with a poor educational situation would lead to the perpetuation of an underclass. We only need to look at France to see the outcome, alienation, anger, and religious activism. I would limit the size of these groups.
69
Why don't we stabilize America first.
21
How about first the relocation of the Montagnard people , who supplied US with 40,000 fighters ,and lost 200,000 of there own people in Vietnam war . They have been waiting since 1975 , we promised these poor but loyal compatriots that we would get them out . US government knew that they would be targeted, and they were and still are.The Vietnamese government has always been unduly harsh with treatment of these people since end of war due to major assistance they provided our servicemen and US government
36
Excellent comment. My husband served at Plei Mei. He still remembers the Montagnards with respect and affection.
2
This is a joke right? Either that or the dumbest column on today's opinion page; a spot usually held by any article by the Times Editorial Board.
Marx had an idea, from Hegel, called the dialectic. It said that the solution to each problem includes in its application the root of the next problem. Pack Detroit with Syrians. I'm not a Marxist, few are these days; but I think I can see where that idea would take us.
Marx had an idea, from Hegel, called the dialectic. It said that the solution to each problem includes in its application the root of the next problem. Pack Detroit with Syrians. I'm not a Marxist, few are these days; but I think I can see where that idea would take us.
118
Well-intentioned, but sadly short-sighted, in my opinion. The authors fail to acknowledge that a significant number (possibly the majority) of Muslims in Detroit are Shiite. Moreover, many hail originally from towns in South Lebanon like Bint Jbeil where the Lebanese party-cum-militia Hezbollah enjoys wide support. The vast, vast majority of Syrian refugees are Sunni.
The authors, I believe, underestimate how deeply the Syrian war has been shaped by sectarian considerations.
While I believe that Syrian refugees should indeed be welcomed into out country, I struggle with the author's seemingly one dimensional understanding of "Arabness" as a premise for relocating the refugees to Detroit.
The authors, I believe, underestimate how deeply the Syrian war has been shaped by sectarian considerations.
While I believe that Syrian refugees should indeed be welcomed into out country, I struggle with the author's seemingly one dimensional understanding of "Arabness" as a premise for relocating the refugees to Detroit.
116
I suspect same is gonna take place in Muslim refugees in Detroit, like the Chinese communities in New York City, nobody will distinguish themselves as Mainlanders or Tawaineses or even Hong Kong nese
Once they come, they know they have to learn a new reality, they still have Shiite and Sunnies, but they are just names
Once they come, they know they have to learn a new reality, they still have Shiite and Sunnies, but they are just names
7
Is there any way of extending similar assistance to enterprising Americans?
I know that for some time now, artists have been moving into Detroit because of the cheap housing and a willingness to work to fix things up. A lot of people have lost jobs, income, and businesses over the recession.
Can't they also have some kind of competition for people with an enterprising, hard-working track record and good revitalization ideas who simply lack the resources to carry them out?
I know that for some time now, artists have been moving into Detroit because of the cheap housing and a willingness to work to fix things up. A lot of people have lost jobs, income, and businesses over the recession.
Can't they also have some kind of competition for people with an enterprising, hard-working track record and good revitalization ideas who simply lack the resources to carry them out?
32
I am sure that Detroit would be eager to take them on the condition that Palo Alto and Manhattan take an equal number first. Any additional migrants might be sent to the Ivory Tower from where this hare-brained idea came.
163
Windsor, Ontario, is awful close to there. Make sure you keep 'em on your side of the border.
CANADIAN
CANADIAN
2
Send Syrian refugees to Manhattan, by all means. By which I mean, send more. New York City has Syrian communities, and larger Arab communities, in all of its five boroughs - and has had, for almost 100 years. Syrian immigrants, like all immigrants, have vastly enriched this country, especially those communities wise enough to regard their immigration as other than "hare-brained."
Give me your tired, your poor, your CroatianCounts and your Syrians fleeing war and religious and ethnic oppression, seeking economic opportunity and political freedom. Send these tempest-tossed to our shores, and if Detroit doesn't want them, send them to my shores, because I surely do.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
Give me your tired, your poor, your CroatianCounts and your Syrians fleeing war and religious and ethnic oppression, seeking economic opportunity and political freedom. Send these tempest-tossed to our shores, and if Detroit doesn't want them, send them to my shores, because I surely do.
politicsbyeccehomo.wordpress.com
3
Manhattan has the largest percentage of immigrants of any US city.
Forty per cent use one or more social services.
Not everyone in this city is part of the 1%, which is why we are called the 99%.
Forty per cent use one or more social services.
Not everyone in this city is part of the 1%, which is why we are called the 99%.
1
Excellent idea. I would focus on the doubly-trageted Syrian Christian communities from Aleppo (Armenians) and Homs. Like the minority Hmong, they would bring a cohesive self-supporting community to Detroit with less likely resistance from xenophobic (anti-Islamic) politicians.
12
My experience is if you can come, people or politician's opinion will change
I keep coming back to this very succinct, hopefully apt comment.
Every side in this civil war is acting like barbarians. Do you imagine that a change of geography will automatically turn them into tolerant consensus building Lockean democrats?
America is defined by a particular civic culture derived from British history transformed by our own experience and the enlightenment. Is there any shred of evidence that this group is desirous of joining that concensus?
Immigrants should be Americans in their hearts before they come rather than hoping that they will transform when they get here. Otherwise we risk giving American citizenship to those who are Ameticans only in that legal sense, who will wear the uniform only to commit treason as did Hasan.
America is defined by a particular civic culture derived from British history transformed by our own experience and the enlightenment. Is there any shred of evidence that this group is desirous of joining that concensus?
Immigrants should be Americans in their hearts before they come rather than hoping that they will transform when they get here. Otherwise we risk giving American citizenship to those who are Ameticans only in that legal sense, who will wear the uniform only to commit treason as did Hasan.
24
I have no objections to Syrian migrants coming to Detroit , but have long thought that we should let any potential immigrant willing to live in and invest in our blighted cities like Detroit & Baltimore go to the front of the line.
3
I think this is a brilliant idea. Revitalize a depopulated, economically failing city of Detroit by bringing in Syrian refugees from a region that cannot support them from a economical, social and humanitarian context. Its a shame that while the US, Russia, EU and the like act like "big players" in dictating their agendas in Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Iraq, etc. they look the other way to the thousands of people displaced because of their actions. I have no doubt that if this plan comes through, Detroit would experience a great reversal of its fortunes!
9
Excellent suggestion!
My first preference would be to change the conditions in Syria so its citizens could return to their own homeland. But that would require a change in US and Israeli policy that prefers chaos to stability in "enemy" countries and is not likely in the short term.
As a native Detroiter it is very distressing to see all these empty houses disintegrating with each passing day. In my own neighborhood on the east side about a third of the houses are empty and, while many are stripped of metal parts, they are nontheless fixable. Many are brick with leaded glass windows and real plaster in the walls and ceilings. Repairing and making these houses liveable again would be a shot in the arm for Detroit's ravaged economy and get some money circulating in the whole economically depressed region.
And displaced Syrians would be a perfect fit for the city which already has tens of thousands of skilled and hard working Arabic citizens. We already have the best Middle Eastern restaurants in the country.
Bringing Syrian refugees to Detroit would be a win-win situation for the both refugees AND the city.
My first preference would be to change the conditions in Syria so its citizens could return to their own homeland. But that would require a change in US and Israeli policy that prefers chaos to stability in "enemy" countries and is not likely in the short term.
As a native Detroiter it is very distressing to see all these empty houses disintegrating with each passing day. In my own neighborhood on the east side about a third of the houses are empty and, while many are stripped of metal parts, they are nontheless fixable. Many are brick with leaded glass windows and real plaster in the walls and ceilings. Repairing and making these houses liveable again would be a shot in the arm for Detroit's ravaged economy and get some money circulating in the whole economically depressed region.
And displaced Syrians would be a perfect fit for the city which already has tens of thousands of skilled and hard working Arabic citizens. We already have the best Middle Eastern restaurants in the country.
Bringing Syrian refugees to Detroit would be a win-win situation for the both refugees AND the city.
34
And sending some of those Detroiters to Syria might be wise as well. The tactics they use up there in Detroit might do a lot to defeat the rebels.
4
George, the Syrians are doing this to themselves. Their deaths are not our problem, and we definitely don't need to be importing problemed/traumatized people into this country who will sponge up yet more social services. Let them kindly die in place or figure out their own home country. We are not here to fix the world.
1
Jimmy, actually, cutting off US taxpayer support for the "rebels" AND Israel would accomplish the same end. And, of course, you should not be shy about volunteering yourself. Nothing clears the head like having skin in the game.
Haven't we learned any lessons? Avoid ghettos or ethnic concentrations. Parisian bainlieue? Of course they're all wonderful people. But such are the coverts where sleepers lie in wait.
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"Where sleepers lie in wait." Like communities where conspiracy-minded armed-to-the-teeth 100% Americans hold secret meetings planning strategies for defending themselves when the Gub'ment strikes, to take away their guns, freedom, rights.
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My Dear, I think you are consumed by fear of change, but here it ifs about giving people a second chance, and revitalizing a struggling city, win win
How come I never thought about this before?
How come I never thought about this before?
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The Arab-American communities in the Detroit metro areas are anything but ghettos. Experience and reality contradict your fears.
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Great idea, and with a little effort on everyones part it could come to fruition.
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