Any chance you can do some fact checking? - the amount of power from wind and solar is not 30% - see https://energy-charts.de/energy.htm
16
...when asked how Germany could have advanced renewable energy to 30% in
far less time than projected, German energy minister answered, "We have PUBLICLY FINANCED ELECTIONS"...(rather than corporate dominance-influence of energy policy)
far less time than projected, German energy minister answered, "We have PUBLICLY FINANCED ELECTIONS"...(rather than corporate dominance-influence of energy policy)
27
Paraphrasing Bismarck, Germany has finally found a “place in the sun”, not militarily, but economically, politically and morally. The Germans haven’t forgotten the best and the worst of their past, and have created a present, which in many respects is the envy of the world.
That said, almost none of its European neighbors was in favor of German reunification in the 1990’s, probably remembering their own occupation by the Wehrmacht during WWII. The recent 70th anniversaries of the liberation of many Nazi death camps underscore that same European experience with the Germans.
Also remembering these experiences, the Germans hesitate now with their growing importance as a player on the world stage. It is wise for them to move slowly in reasserting themselves.
And regarding “green” power, the verdict is still out on the closure of all German nuclear power plants within the next decade. For a high-tech country like Germany, the second largest exporter of manufactured goods after China, the loss of these plants is going to be a big energy hit on their economy.
Yet Germany’s record with renewable energy and its foreign trade balance sheet are items that we Americans should envy.
(Though the Greeks really help that trade balance sheet with a devalued Euro. If the Germans still had the Mark, they would be like Switzerland: Cuckoo clocks are very expensive outside of Switzerland because of the Swiss Franc; better to buy a Chinese knock-off.)
That said, almost none of its European neighbors was in favor of German reunification in the 1990’s, probably remembering their own occupation by the Wehrmacht during WWII. The recent 70th anniversaries of the liberation of many Nazi death camps underscore that same European experience with the Germans.
Also remembering these experiences, the Germans hesitate now with their growing importance as a player on the world stage. It is wise for them to move slowly in reasserting themselves.
And regarding “green” power, the verdict is still out on the closure of all German nuclear power plants within the next decade. For a high-tech country like Germany, the second largest exporter of manufactured goods after China, the loss of these plants is going to be a big energy hit on their economy.
Yet Germany’s record with renewable energy and its foreign trade balance sheet are items that we Americans should envy.
(Though the Greeks really help that trade balance sheet with a devalued Euro. If the Germans still had the Mark, they would be like Switzerland: Cuckoo clocks are very expensive outside of Switzerland because of the Swiss Franc; better to buy a Chinese knock-off.)
15
"Germany will be Europe’s first green, solar-powered superpower." Perhaps just a poorly chosen sentence, but Germany will never be a superpower. A "Great Power" perhaps, akin to the pre WW1 years, but it will never be as dominant as the U.S. or China are now or the USSR was. I certainly hope not.
2
Israel recycles 86% of it's water -Germany is a green and small business manufacturing powerhouse of modernity - and Norway and Sweden are models of positive humanism.
Human vitality creativity and innovation of the kind that could produce universal well being are all around us.
But not enough of it or them!
Tick Tock!
Human vitality creativity and innovation of the kind that could produce universal well being are all around us.
But not enough of it or them!
Tick Tock!
6
I'm in agreement with earlier commenter, Mark Thomason.
Costa Rica can show us the way to a renewable energy future. It also can show us the way to a better world. Costa Rica has no military and it has rights for nature written into its constitution. Imagine that!
If only the rest of the world had such incredible wisdom and courage...
Costa Rica can show us the way to a renewable energy future. It also can show us the way to a better world. Costa Rica has no military and it has rights for nature written into its constitution. Imagine that!
If only the rest of the world had such incredible wisdom and courage...
10
I fail to see how Germany's abandoning nuclear energy for fossil fuels (i.e. natural gas) is green.
11
"Two generations after World War II, Germany’s reticence to project any power outside its borders is deeply ingrained in the political psyche here. That is a good thing, given Germany’s past. But it is not sustainable. "
The question is: Why not Mr. Friedman?
After all, Germany (and Japan) have done extraordinary well without financing a costly/worthless war machine after WWII. In case of emergency such as the civil war in the former Yugoslavia, the heavy military lifting is done by US taxpayers without much complaint, so far.
Germans got used to enjoy their wealth on cars, good food, football and overseas trips. As a politician said recently, his dream is to turn Germany into a huge and prosperous Switzerland. To project military power overseas will continue to be America's dominion for years and decades to come.
The question is: Why not Mr. Friedman?
After all, Germany (and Japan) have done extraordinary well without financing a costly/worthless war machine after WWII. In case of emergency such as the civil war in the former Yugoslavia, the heavy military lifting is done by US taxpayers without much complaint, so far.
Germans got used to enjoy their wealth on cars, good food, football and overseas trips. As a politician said recently, his dream is to turn Germany into a huge and prosperous Switzerland. To project military power overseas will continue to be America's dominion for years and decades to come.
8
A serious presidential candidate should propose a similar energy effort in the United States along side a broader infrastructure push.
11
The German model for green energy is not likely to happen in America as long as the carbon based industries dominate both houses of Congress, but especially the GOP. And of course, the White House, especially that of the elder and younger Bush administrations.
And now we have the pleasure of looking forward to a third Bush administration that loves Big Carbon.
With a Democrat in the White House, at least it is kind of a standoff (Keystone pipeline) but Big Carbon still rules.
And now we have the pleasure of looking forward to a third Bush administration that loves Big Carbon.
With a Democrat in the White House, at least it is kind of a standoff (Keystone pipeline) but Big Carbon still rules.
9
Meanwhile here in the U.S. the enemy within, Citizens United and the willingness of the American people to allow political power to be bought, is reducing our world credibility and our ability to govern. Let's face it, America is not what it use to be; "One nation, with liberty and justice for all."
The world sees it including our friends and enemies. Those who wish to dethrone us need to nothing except sit and wait for us to do it to ourselves. Citizens United needs to be reversed. Many reading this will ask what has Citizens United got to do with Germany. It has got to do with us. Do us Americans have the chutzpah to do something about it. Just like the Roman Empire or Germany after World War I, I am not sure we do.... http://lstrn.us/10DGJIW
The world sees it including our friends and enemies. Those who wish to dethrone us need to nothing except sit and wait for us to do it to ourselves. Citizens United needs to be reversed. Many reading this will ask what has Citizens United got to do with Germany. It has got to do with us. Do us Americans have the chutzpah to do something about it. Just like the Roman Empire or Germany after World War I, I am not sure we do.... http://lstrn.us/10DGJIW
7
The idea of a German superpower of any kind is crazy talk. We've tried twice during the 20th century, and everybody knows what the results were. The compliments in this article are nice, and I agree that Germany has to assume more responsibility. But the one way guaranteed to doom any moves in that direction to failure is to talk about superpower status. If Mr. Friedman were a German politician and had written this column in Germany, he would be out of office by tomorrow. End of story.
5
We must adopt renewable energy production as efficiently as possible but...
Quote: [[On the first point, what the Germans have done in converting almost 30 percent of their electric grid to solar and wind energy from near zero in about 15 years has been a great contribution to the stability of our planet and its climate.]]
If this is not correct, then the opinion does not make much sense.
According to Energiewende reports, in 2014, wind accounted for 8.6%, solar accounted for 5.8% and nuclear accounted for 15.9%. 43.6% of the energy production was from coal/lignite. are this the characteristics of a "Green Superpower"?
Quote: [[On the first point, what the Germans have done in converting almost 30 percent of their electric grid to solar and wind energy from near zero in about 15 years has been a great contribution to the stability of our planet and its climate.]]
If this is not correct, then the opinion does not make much sense.
According to Energiewende reports, in 2014, wind accounted for 8.6%, solar accounted for 5.8% and nuclear accounted for 15.9%. 43.6% of the energy production was from coal/lignite. are this the characteristics of a "Green Superpower"?
6
Let's see - I sell my solar and wind power to the national grid, but pay a higher price for my electric bill to fund the subsidy...
So after factoring in what I pay to install all the equipment, am I making a profit? How many years before I see a positive cash flow?
I don't see this answered in Friedman's article.
So after factoring in what I pay to install all the equipment, am I making a profit? How many years before I see a positive cash flow?
I don't see this answered in Friedman's article.
5
and just for all these money conscious commenters.
There is this theory - that the US wastes -(and wasted) so much energy - because energy always was (and is) much too cheap in the US - and if a gallon of gas would cost as much in the US as in Europe - the American people would probably develop the same energy conserving attitude as the Europeans - and let me say - that might be really a 'good' thing...?
There is this theory - that the US wastes -(and wasted) so much energy - because energy always was (and is) much too cheap in the US - and if a gallon of gas would cost as much in the US as in Europe - the American people would probably develop the same energy conserving attitude as the Europeans - and let me say - that might be really a 'good' thing...?
6
Germany is going to be ahead of the game on that and it is going to make a lot of money on renewables, so the message to Germany's industrial competitors is that you can base your energy policy not on nuclear, not on coal, but on renewables.
Germany nowadays joins its allies in sending troops to trouble spots such as Kosovo or Afghanistan. Last year it ended the draft in favor of an all-volunteer army like America’s. Germany is also undertaking a big reform of the Bundeswehr (Armed Forces), which consists largely of shrinking the army from 250,000 soldiers to about 185,000 by 2017, to save money.
But beyond agreeing that the Army should cost less, there is no consensus, not even a serious debate, on what the Bundeswehr is for. Any new idea about the Armed Forces is automatically a political tinderbox.
Germany nowadays joins its allies in sending troops to trouble spots such as Kosovo or Afghanistan. Last year it ended the draft in favor of an all-volunteer army like America’s. Germany is also undertaking a big reform of the Bundeswehr (Armed Forces), which consists largely of shrinking the army from 250,000 soldiers to about 185,000 by 2017, to save money.
But beyond agreeing that the Army should cost less, there is no consensus, not even a serious debate, on what the Bundeswehr is for. Any new idea about the Armed Forces is automatically a political tinderbox.
1
Germany has learned many lessons from the death and destruction it wrought upon others and the death and destruction finally wrought upon it. No other nation has faced itself and its history so honestly and tried so hard to repent. And yet book after book and film after film have treated the Germans as if the Nazis were still in power. No one looks at the United States through the lens of slavery, but seemingly everybody looks at Germany through the lens of the holocaust. The Germans are sensitive to their situation in the eyes of the world. Until other nations and their people engage in self-examination and realize that evil extends universally, the reticence of the Germans must continue. Americans might start with events in Ferguson and Cleveland and Baltimore. And we might build a memorial to slavery right near our Capitol.
4
Germany is going to eat our lunch because while we are destroying our land and coastal waters with oil drilling, fracking and mountaintop removal as well as depending on aging nuclear reactors, Germany will be way out ahead with a power grid that won't depend on any other country to be fed dirty power. So why should Germany become a "world leader" (dog whistle for military power) when they can simply enjoy the fruits of their intellect and will, and let the mindless USA wage endless wars to grab the oil, coal and gas it needs to feed its 20th Century infrastructure?
6
Friedman, I don't understand how you can be so on-point with respect to Germany's energy development and so wrong-headed with respect to their "national power". Contrary to your assertions, Germany is an example of how economic strength and assertive, progressive, and responsible policies are far more effective means of establishing significance on the world stage than projecting military strength. Ironically, the Chinese are in the midst of quickly un-learning the reason they are a rising power: economics - not military - strength.
4
There are many things we Americans could learn from Europe and especially Germany. How to bring individual liberty and collective responsibilty into a working democracy, transparency concerning corruption and the prevention of corruption, healthcare, energy, carre of infrastructure, new and old, and the list goes on and on.
7
..interesting conundrum. Germany's economic enduring economic strength and its political clout are in many respects, direct consequences of its relative pacifism. Lower levels of military spending have allowed Germany to spend instead on the public goods of its social democratic system, as well as subsidize things like green power for individuals (but also as you point out are in aggregate, significant public goods). Also, Germany's demonstrable humility has become a/the pillar of its credibility and hence soft power globally. The term "super power " is loaded... its meaning will change in an increasingly devolved, multi polar world. Germany's model may very well lead the way of this revised view, precisely because they CAN take national collective actions such as those the article mentioned, and where other Countries l( ike the US ) will undoubtedly will be competitively disadvantaged by their fecklessness on such things.
6
I do not think anyone would want to see Germany become another military superpower again. If Germany had become a leader in renewable energy it is precisely because of not following that path.
May be we have a lesson to learn from Costa-Rica or Germany, about what can be done here in this country.
If only our short sighted and greedy plutocrats and their serving representatives could unshackle them from coal and other polluting source of energy, we have the know-how and ability to become a true leader in transitioning into the non-polluting energy sources of tomorrow.
May be we have a lesson to learn from Costa-Rica or Germany, about what can be done here in this country.
If only our short sighted and greedy plutocrats and their serving representatives could unshackle them from coal and other polluting source of energy, we have the know-how and ability to become a true leader in transitioning into the non-polluting energy sources of tomorrow.
7
Both Germany and Japan definitely do need to become national military powers. They have two of the largest economies, after the U.S. and China, and two of the more-populace democratic nations. Each military will definitely need, however, to be under the control of an extremely powerful civilian national security counsel, which reports directly to the Chancellor/President, and also overseen by the respective Legislatures.
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
http://thetruthoncommonsense.com
Regional power and global player, yes. Superpower, no. Only the Big Resource Nations are capable of being superpowers. Big population, big land area, big natural resources, big access to the ocean, big economy. The potential list is: US/Canada, China, Brazil, Russia, India, the European Union as a whole, the former English Empire as a whole.
Japan and Germany are on the second list, the list of regional powers and global players.
For example, could Germany today build 151 aircraft carriers as the US did in 1942-1945? Could Germany today field tens of millions of troops, supply those armies with weapons and materials, and supply other nations with food, ships, weapons and materials? The answers are no, not then, not now. Germany does not have the logistical means itself to be a superpower. With the entire EU, Germany could have the resources.
Russia also is not a superpower today. It cannot field the troops, supply the armies, and supply allies. Indeed, it does not have allies to supply. It also cannot build the ships, and has never built the ships, to control the oceans of the earth. Russia does not have the population and is not a magnet for immigration.
The United States has checkmate on superpower status, although China is working hard to achieve parity. China has the potential resources.
Germany is too small.
Japan and Germany are on the second list, the list of regional powers and global players.
For example, could Germany today build 151 aircraft carriers as the US did in 1942-1945? Could Germany today field tens of millions of troops, supply those armies with weapons and materials, and supply other nations with food, ships, weapons and materials? The answers are no, not then, not now. Germany does not have the logistical means itself to be a superpower. With the entire EU, Germany could have the resources.
Russia also is not a superpower today. It cannot field the troops, supply the armies, and supply allies. Indeed, it does not have allies to supply. It also cannot build the ships, and has never built the ships, to control the oceans of the earth. Russia does not have the population and is not a magnet for immigration.
The United States has checkmate on superpower status, although China is working hard to achieve parity. China has the potential resources.
Germany is too small.
6
Thanks for the article which was enlightening. A lesson that can be learnt from Germany is - fear mongering and selling war will eventually be not good for anyone. Being a world-power is meaningless if in trying to do so you destroy the world. Using economic power for peaceful intentions, improving the welfare of the citizenry and reducing the strain on the environment will eventually benefit all. Hopefully the capitalists in USA learn this lesson soon and before a major catastrophe
5
The idea that Germany must give up pacifism in order to succeed as a superpower is absurd.
Power is the control of energy flows, not the projection of violence.
It is exactly because Germany is not wasting money projecting violence into the Middle East to ensure energy flows to its economy that Germans are able to spend good money ensuring much higher quality -- and eventually, free -- energy flows through its society.
And then, there is the United States, where agents of the deep petrostate sink trillions after bad in the Thirty Year Oil War that began in 91 and continues today ... thus preventing exactly the transition that Friedman so desparately (and rightly) wants.
Tom Friedman, you're a very smart man, but you've got it on inside-out.
Power is the control of energy flows, not the projection of violence.
It is exactly because Germany is not wasting money projecting violence into the Middle East to ensure energy flows to its economy that Germans are able to spend good money ensuring much higher quality -- and eventually, free -- energy flows through its society.
And then, there is the United States, where agents of the deep petrostate sink trillions after bad in the Thirty Year Oil War that began in 91 and continues today ... thus preventing exactly the transition that Friedman so desparately (and rightly) wants.
Tom Friedman, you're a very smart man, but you've got it on inside-out.
3
The "green superpower's" electricity cost is 3X what I pay. And since the annual average effective solar irradiation in Germany is 3 kWh/m2/d (less than ½ of Tucson) with no effective means of energy storage, those coal plants will keep running. Even less efficient, they will need to be idled and powered up. More sun in the northern summer, little in the winter, it's not obvious solar is Germany's best option. Superpower energy status will likely be a millstone conferred on the German economy. Nuclear with geothermal would have made more sense (but not as politically correct or trendy).
3
"Germany tomorrow will have to overcome its deeply ingrained post-World War II pacifism and become a more serious, activist global power."
Spoken like a true American dupe for projecting power needlessly and interfering in the affairs of other nations. There is no doubt that America tries to dominate the world militarily and is constantly telling other nations how to behave. It is the common mode of thought among the "serious thinkers" on foreign policy in America.
Clearly there is a difference between Americans and Europeans on this issue. Europeans have suffered severely because of overreaching in projecting military power. Americans have suffered also, but not nearly to the same degree. Perhaps if America had gotten its nose bloodied to the same degree that Europe has, it would not be so ready to interfere in other nations affairs.
International rules should be enforced by multi-lateral unions which are truly global in nature. This means international policy decisions being made within the UN, not by men operating in the capitol of a single "superpower". If there is any word which is anathema to peace and justice in our world it is that word "superpower". It may be the most obscene word yet.
Spoken like a true American dupe for projecting power needlessly and interfering in the affairs of other nations. There is no doubt that America tries to dominate the world militarily and is constantly telling other nations how to behave. It is the common mode of thought among the "serious thinkers" on foreign policy in America.
Clearly there is a difference between Americans and Europeans on this issue. Europeans have suffered severely because of overreaching in projecting military power. Americans have suffered also, but not nearly to the same degree. Perhaps if America had gotten its nose bloodied to the same degree that Europe has, it would not be so ready to interfere in other nations affairs.
International rules should be enforced by multi-lateral unions which are truly global in nature. This means international policy decisions being made within the UN, not by men operating in the capitol of a single "superpower". If there is any word which is anathema to peace and justice in our world it is that word "superpower". It may be the most obscene word yet.
7
"One problem: Germany still has tons of cheap, dirty lignite coal that is used as backup power for wind and solar"
As a result co2 emissions per capita in Germany were 9.1 metric ton in 2010 while in France for example it 5.1 (according to the world bank).
Since 2010 they've built more carbon burning plants to replace the nuclear reactors they've closed.
Only Friedman could spin this as a victory deserving of a Nobel peace prize.
As a result co2 emissions per capita in Germany were 9.1 metric ton in 2010 while in France for example it 5.1 (according to the world bank).
Since 2010 they've built more carbon burning plants to replace the nuclear reactors they've closed.
Only Friedman could spin this as a victory deserving of a Nobel peace prize.
3
I with the article had explained the reasons that Germany is turning away from nuclear power. Many environmentalists (or should they be called "former environmentalists?) have suggested that nuclear power is the best, or only, way to make serious cutbacks in our use of fossil fuels. They claim that current nuclear power plants are safer than Chernobyl or even 3-Mile Island.
Too bad America can't have a program like Germany. But with the divide between the GOP and democrats we could never put a program like Germany's into effect here. Obviously before we can do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels one party would have to be voted out of power.
Too bad America can't have a program like Germany. But with the divide between the GOP and democrats we could never put a program like Germany's into effect here. Obviously before we can do anything about our addiction to fossil fuels one party would have to be voted out of power.
15
Good for Germany on the alternative, sustainable energy front, all the while in the U.S. with ALEC (read Koch brothers) trying to destroy it. In my state of New Mexico, the major utility PNM has applied to the state public regulatory agency to charge so much for those of us with photovoltaics on our roofs, that we will actually pay PNM to provide power, as they get the solar credits! PNM, a tool of ALEC, has this power because we are not Germany, or rational one might say.
Good for Germany. We're going there this summer and investigating getting off the grid completely, which many do in Germany.
Good for Germany. We're going there this summer and investigating getting off the grid completely, which many do in Germany.
1
Oh dear. Germany as a super power.
The only real disagreement one can have with this column is the failure to mention that under Angela Merkel the austerity Germany effectively imposed on all of Europe, not to mention on Greece, did serious harm to the countries in the Eurozone.
1
France would be a better example for going green. Germany's going to end up effectively replacing lots of carbon free nuclear power with dirty coal. Wind and solar are just a costly side show that makes everyone feel good but isn't going to meet the energy demands of modern society.
4
Some US school districts are analyzing programs that achieve results by each school and then deciding if such programs can be implemented across the board. A best of the best practice without re-inventing the wheel.
The US could do the same globally for many of our challenges. First, when we hear of a success elsewhere, we have to stop the "but it will never work here" attitude. When Finland or Germany or Singapore has a success, we should learn from that.
The US could do the same globally for many of our challenges. First, when we hear of a success elsewhere, we have to stop the "but it will never work here" attitude. When Finland or Germany or Singapore has a success, we should learn from that.
1
Germany, like the rest of European countries, will never assume greater leadership with respect to its military so long as the US continues to pay any price and bear any burden for the defense of Europe. And frankly, why should they? The free-rider problem is in play as the US spends $200 billion of borrowed money each year on NATO. All European countries know that the US is bound by treaty to come to their defense should they be attacked. They are free to invest in their people, their infrastructure, and their manufacturing base while the US continues the slow bleed.
2
elf into oblivion on its military, instead of making necessary improvements to its infrastructure, which includes a smart green electric grid. This could be accomplished easily with a carbon tax; the revenue immediately transferred to subsidize the purchase of green electric and hybrid technologies, the same as in Germany.
When did our government stop promoting what works best? It was when right wing nuts, formerly known as the lunatic fringe and now as republicans, took over, including the supreme court (f.e.c. vs united), which neither party seems willing to confront in the coming election.
(add this to previous post--first sentence here is U.S. spending itself into oblivion...)
When did our government stop promoting what works best? It was when right wing nuts, formerly known as the lunatic fringe and now as republicans, took over, including the supreme court (f.e.c. vs united), which neither party seems willing to confront in the coming election.
(add this to previous post--first sentence here is U.S. spending itself into oblivion...)
1
The myopic, or should I say dim, Mr. Friedman has, among other errors, bought into the idea that Russia is taking over things again. He never talks about our own interference in Kiev and the money and people that we've sent there.....Mr. Friedman, do you only read your own copy?
Germany today is Germany today, having transformed itself for the 4th time in 100 years (Kaiser to democracy to dictatorship to divided democracy/dictatorship to untied democracy). The US, in contrast, has gone to a state that is reminiscent of Germany before World War I: A strongly authoritarian society, indubitable cultural achievements, an over-reliance on military solutions and exploits, a deeply corrupted political leadership class. an unhappy populace which longed to find representation in the true echelons of power. Let's just hope that future changes in the US will not parallel those in Germany in the last 100 years.
3
"One problem: Germany still has tons of cheap, dirty lignite coal that is used as backup power for wind and solar, because cleaner natural gas is more expensive and nuclear is being phased out."
Which brings up the question: Do you want philosophers that want to turn the clock back 10 thousand years or pragmatist to run your nations energy policy?
Which brings up the question: Do you want philosophers that want to turn the clock back 10 thousand years or pragmatist to run your nations energy policy?
Perhaps Mr. Friedman has lost sight of post-WWII history.... It seems that both Germany and Japan have achieved rather remarkable success without resorting to or relying on military power -- as either a stick over others or as a driver of their respective economies.
Perhaps that's what real "leadership" is all about.
Meanwhile, "back in the USA", we seem to have imported the right wing neocon thinking that inspired Germany into launching WWII... how ironic that we are becoming what we warred against!
Perhaps that's what real "leadership" is all about.
Meanwhile, "back in the USA", we seem to have imported the right wing neocon thinking that inspired Germany into launching WWII... how ironic that we are becoming what we warred against!
Not content with rattling our saber, Mr. Friedman extends his efforts to Germany.
Hawaii is a good American example of a state leading the way with solar energy. The Times reported on some of the problems they are facing. All states should study how they adapt to the growing demand for panels.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/business/energy-environment/solar-powe...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/business/energy-environment/solar-powe...
Germany can lead with out the use of brute military strength. It sounds as if the German have learned how to invest in themselves and their economic and environmental well being instead of their previous war machine. The US has not learned that lesson.
Not just content to make a chancy prediction about the future here, Mr. Friedman has predicted the present. Germany is smart to project political power through the E.U. Europe needs the rapid deployment force to stem genocides in Africa and on its borders. Who would have thought this would also include aggression from Russia? Did we alienate them, or are their present leaders xenophobic maniacs? It would be nice to see them lighten up on Greece. I think they are showing frustration that the common sense proposals they have put forward always seem like Greek to the Greeks. Maybe something simpler like kick starting their economy with discount tourism, or helping them to restore their maritime industry. Boats might run on a combination of solar and wind, with the solar used to make hydrogen fuel.
Green is needed (i.e.,NEEDED) to save the planet. Allowing the U.S. and China to sabotage this is the number one foreign policy problem in the world. The U.S. is controlled by Oil and Coal, and the Chinese don't care, i.e. the Chinese government--don't ask their people who suffer everyday just from the pollution. On projecting power, the Chinese are content to goad the U.S. into spending its
Green is needed (i.e.,NEEDED) to save the planet. Allowing the U.S. and China to sabotage this is the number one foreign policy problem in the world. The U.S. is controlled by Oil and Coal, and the Chinese don't care, i.e. the Chinese government--don't ask their people who suffer everyday just from the pollution. On projecting power, the Chinese are content to goad the U.S. into spending its
Do you really want Germany to become a superpower, yet again? I don't think so!
If we in the U.S. could only invest the money that goes to the military to develop sustainable communities!!! What a difference that would make!
6
Green Super Power which manfactures and sells SUBMARINES and not for below sea scientific research???
I see a patently false statement here unless giving/selling? German submarines to Israel is NOT meant for war use, which would make a difference when Israel is the recipient /buyer??
I see a patently false statement here unless giving/selling? German submarines to Israel is NOT meant for war use, which would make a difference when Israel is the recipient /buyer??
State of California on its own vies with the EU for the world's toughest environmental rules. Global automotive emissions/alternative technology crucible left Europe for California. Cars on German autobahns running at wide open throttle induce open loop operation where the powertrain control module ignores the signals from sensors monitoring exhaust content. Toxic compounds out the tailpipe spike over miles, especially on their vaunted ubiquitous diesels. Cold War tradition was to let it all blow east onto the communists.
Germany is fun to visit with many fine German products for your kitchen and wine cellar back home but there is perspective worth keeping.
Germany is fun to visit with many fine German products for your kitchen and wine cellar back home but there is perspective worth keeping.
Germany has raced to the top in the last 30 years, while America is content to stay at the bottom on renewable energy.
1
"Here’s my prediction: Germany will be Europe’s first green, solar-powered superpower." --- Friedman
Germany has certainly made impressive gains in green energy, in a country that gets about as much sunshine as Seattle. Clearly, though, they'll need backup during the winter months, and wind power is not reliable enough to fill the gap on its own. Perhaps they're making a mistake in phasing out nuclear, which despite its bad press is cleaner than fossil fuels and can be made quite safe with proper design and safeguards.
The contrast with the U.S. couldn't be more stark. Germany is looking to the future; the U.S. looks to the past. We're stuck in a fossil fuel economy, and the powers that be resist every effort to develop green energy. Our Republicans in Congress are even out to sabotage President Obama's relatively modest attempts to reduce the use of coal in power plants. The threat of human-induced climate change is ignored. It makes one think that the Neanderthals have come back to life and taken over our country!
We used to be number one in a lot of things. Now, more and more, we're becoming number last.
Germany has certainly made impressive gains in green energy, in a country that gets about as much sunshine as Seattle. Clearly, though, they'll need backup during the winter months, and wind power is not reliable enough to fill the gap on its own. Perhaps they're making a mistake in phasing out nuclear, which despite its bad press is cleaner than fossil fuels and can be made quite safe with proper design and safeguards.
The contrast with the U.S. couldn't be more stark. Germany is looking to the future; the U.S. looks to the past. We're stuck in a fossil fuel economy, and the powers that be resist every effort to develop green energy. Our Republicans in Congress are even out to sabotage President Obama's relatively modest attempts to reduce the use of coal in power plants. The threat of human-induced climate change is ignored. It makes one think that the Neanderthals have come back to life and taken over our country!
We used to be number one in a lot of things. Now, more and more, we're becoming number last.
7
A big part of all of this is the main idea behind government. Is it a "corporation" to be bought by the highest bidders to promote their own narrow special interests or is it a common public institution to protect and promote the good of the majority? The Germans appear to take the later course and we the path to Russian type oligarachy. Until we decide what our government is for we will continue to fall behind.
4
Imagine what could happen in this country if we stopped playing cop for the world and spent money on us instead of weapons.
5
Imagine if Jeb Bush, when he was governor before the house building boom,
had put in place an energy system based on solar in Florida, with 360 days of sunshine a year, and all those citizens were now collecting money from energy sales.
But he didn't . Pity.
had put in place an energy system based on solar in Florida, with 360 days of sunshine a year, and all those citizens were now collecting money from energy sales.
But he didn't . Pity.
9
Pity is the least of it. Stupid and weak-willed is more like it.
A government intervened in the free market and got better results. Don't tell that to the Republicans they won't believe it.
3
No mention that Germany gets over 30% of its energy from Russia. Russia has the ability to cripple Germany's economy. At the same time Germany is a member of NATO. In other words they are caught between a rock and a hard place, while the U.S. is a major guarantor of their security. It cripples NATO as well, since "doing the right thing" can come with a heavy economic cost.
2
Friedman doesn't give any information on the change in German utility rates thanks to the Energoewende scam. I believe they are up 50% and destined to keep climbing. Industry will go broke unless it is given caps and subsidies which just means the rest of the public has to pay more. But the higher the price for consumers, the more the incentive to put panels on their houses to sell their trickle of watts back to the grid. When the subsidies and feed-in tariffs expire --because the German taxpayer is getting tired of paying for them-- the German power consumer is going to take it in the shorts.
Friedman says nothing about the inescapable dependence of solar on a commensurate increase in baseload capacity fueled by a non-variable energy source. You can't back up solar with solar, you have to back it up with nuc, nat gas or that lovely, lovely lignite. All of which Tom condemns as pricey or filthy or both.
It would be less dishonest for the greenscammers to call solar and wind a "supplement" to fossil and nuc power, rather than pitching it as a replacement. Which, absent battery or other storage capacity, it can never be.
Friedman says nothing about the inescapable dependence of solar on a commensurate increase in baseload capacity fueled by a non-variable energy source. You can't back up solar with solar, you have to back it up with nuc, nat gas or that lovely, lovely lignite. All of which Tom condemns as pricey or filthy or both.
It would be less dishonest for the greenscammers to call solar and wind a "supplement" to fossil and nuc power, rather than pitching it as a replacement. Which, absent battery or other storage capacity, it can never be.
4
The only real disagreement one can have with this column is the failure to mention that under Angela Merkel the austerity Germany effectively imposed on all of Europe, not to mention on Greece, did serious harm to the countries in the Eurozone.
Even if poor Ralf grew up in Edenkoben and not an English speaking country, imagine growing up with that last name! ... and becoming a successful politician no less!
Think how it would have appeared had America in 1960 prided itself on building the best buggy whips in the world. We can pride ourselves on being the best in Fracking or Coal mining and remain leaders of the 20th Century as the Germany and China lead the 21st.
Were the American Solar and Wind industries as subsidized as Corn and Sugar now is, or half the rate used to subsidize the Rail and Oil industries we would already match the 30% figures of Germany.
Where is our national pride? How can we allow China to outperform us with Solar? Why are we left with German Wind turbines beating ours?
Were the American Solar and Wind industries as subsidized as Corn and Sugar now is, or half the rate used to subsidize the Rail and Oil industries we would already match the 30% figures of Germany.
Where is our national pride? How can we allow China to outperform us with Solar? Why are we left with German Wind turbines beating ours?
10
As to your questions, follow the money.
Mr. Friedman neglects to mention that Germany now has the highest electricity costs in all of Europe, with the German consumers being forced to pay $26 billion from solar, wind and biomass having a market value of $3 billion. According to Der Spiegel, "electricity is becoming a luxury good," which many poor people are now unable to afford. Moreover, since the decision to phase out carbon free nuclear power, Germany has expanded its use of coal to 45% of electricity production resulting in an increase in CO2 emissions, the supposed rationale behind Energiewende in the first place.
7
I'd pay more in Texas to move to more renewable energy. Change for the good, costs, sometimes on the front end.
1
"One problem: Germany still has tons of cheap, dirty lignite coal that is used as backup power for wind and solar, because cleaner natural gas is more expensive and nuclear is being phased out"
Wish you had said more than four words about the nuclear phase-out, which looks utterly wrong-headed.
Wish you had said more than four words about the nuclear phase-out, which looks utterly wrong-headed.
3
But for the German legacy of World War I and World War II and the rise of the National Democratic Party of Germany and The People's Union I could also imagine green in the German future. But I am still stuck on a black swastika on a white field bounded by red and black.
And my fear goes back even further to the Teutoburg Forest and a 9 C.E. crushing collision with the XVII, XVIII and XIX legions of Augustus Roman Empire army. Back to the Viking era to the Norman invasion and conquest of Anglo-Saxon Britain. At the dawn of the 20th Century, Germany was allegedly among the most advanced and civilized of European nations. English has an ethnic Germanic language and cultural root. There are more German Americans than any other kind of Americans. The British royals have been German since the early 1700's.
A green peaceful open plural egalitarian tolerant Germany would be something new. A welcome addition to German scientific and technological prowess.
And my fear goes back even further to the Teutoburg Forest and a 9 C.E. crushing collision with the XVII, XVIII and XIX legions of Augustus Roman Empire army. Back to the Viking era to the Norman invasion and conquest of Anglo-Saxon Britain. At the dawn of the 20th Century, Germany was allegedly among the most advanced and civilized of European nations. English has an ethnic Germanic language and cultural root. There are more German Americans than any other kind of Americans. The British royals have been German since the early 1700's.
A green peaceful open plural egalitarian tolerant Germany would be something new. A welcome addition to German scientific and technological prowess.
some industries are going to have to go out of business is we have any hope of this planet doing anything better than staggering along, limping and coughing. The extraction industries, for-profit healthcare, for-profit basic education and for-profit prisons come to mind.
2
Why is being a military power some kind of virtue in your world, Mr. Friedman? It seems to me we have too many of those already, and possessing a large military force appears to impel countries into meddling in situations where they don't belong. Exhibit A: our own country, which has messed up the Middle East and is probably involved in covert actions to mess up other countries.
I recall the time George McGovern appeared on William F. Buckley's "Firing Line" program. It was during the years when people around the world were calling for a nuclear freeze. Buckley fretted about the nuclear freeze movement and added, "And the Germans are turning into pacifists!"
McGovern responded, "I was a fighter pilot in World War II, and I'm delighted to hear that the Germans are turning into pacifists."
The world as a whole needs to have more countries realize that ever since 1870, all the major wars have done is set the stage for the next major war.
I recall the time George McGovern appeared on William F. Buckley's "Firing Line" program. It was during the years when people around the world were calling for a nuclear freeze. Buckley fretted about the nuclear freeze movement and added, "And the Germans are turning into pacifists!"
McGovern responded, "I was a fighter pilot in World War II, and I'm delighted to hear that the Germans are turning into pacifists."
The world as a whole needs to have more countries realize that ever since 1870, all the major wars have done is set the stage for the next major war.
9
It’s always easy to criticize carbon on the one hand for the harm it causes without putting a critical eye to those forms of energy that will replace it. The much ballyhooed wind is a great example. It's great as long you like living near an airport and the noise it produces.
2
Germany free-rides on the US for its defense, and free-rides upon its utilities (which must still invest considerably to provide peak power upon demand). German utility companies are in a death spiral, and its electricity grid is very fragile.
Same old story. Politicians get elected by promising free stuff subsidized by someone else. Works great until an economic or military shock brings the whole thing crashing down.
Same old story. Politicians get elected by promising free stuff subsidized by someone else. Works great until an economic or military shock brings the whole thing crashing down.
1
'Germany free-rides on the US for its defense, and free-rides upon its utilities'
Not really - Germany also has a Army and pays for it all by itself - and is a member of Nato - but for sure the country isn't spending the outrageous amount as the US for Defense.
And somewhere I read the US is able to destroy any enemy a 100 times - or a thousand times?!
Is that necessary?
Not really - Germany also has a Army and pays for it all by itself - and is a member of Nato - but for sure the country isn't spending the outrageous amount as the US for Defense.
And somewhere I read the US is able to destroy any enemy a 100 times - or a thousand times?!
Is that necessary?
The Gainesville Florida Feed -In program is no longer accepting households, capping out at 4 megawatts with no plans to expand.
And so it goes....
And so it goes....
2
If the "back-up" energy source for clean energy (solar and wind power) is
dirty emissions such as coal or oil...then the next step is to produce
clean ...no emission catalytic converters for coal burning and oil burning
machines...and reduce the cost of those catalytic converters...
Oil and Coal....need to be burned more efficiently...don't you think so Tom...???
dirty emissions such as coal or oil...then the next step is to produce
clean ...no emission catalytic converters for coal burning and oil burning
machines...and reduce the cost of those catalytic converters...
Oil and Coal....need to be burned more efficiently...don't you think so Tom...???
2
Oil and Coal need to be burned more efficiently? How about first "efficiently" extracting them from the earth without the terrible harm inflicted by oil drills and spills, and mountaintop removal. Just because you wipe off the roast chicken with a dirty rag doesn't mean it didn't hit the kitchen floor first....
This will only occur when the unit cost and reliability of power derived from the sun and wind can compete in a free market.
The unit cost of energy cannot be ignored in what should be a free market. The EU has been burdened with high energy costs and it has yet to accept ownership of the carbon emissions of its imports.
The unit cost of energy cannot be ignored in what should be a free market. The EU has been burdened with high energy costs and it has yet to accept ownership of the carbon emissions of its imports.
2
Mr. Friedman notes, almost as an afterthought, the appearance of the dirty elephant in the room - namely, what happens when the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine? Germany is then forced to burn some of the filthiest fossil fuels on earth, resulting in a rising tide of CO2 emissions. No other nation burns such an abundance of this filthy fuel.
Next time you ride on a sleek German train, ask yourself, is it being powered by solar, or wind? Guess again!
Next time you ride on a sleek German train, ask yourself, is it being powered by solar, or wind? Guess again!
1
I'm sorry but ending nuclear and burning coal as the basline power source is pretty stupid. Even 50% solar and wind won't make up for the emissions increase. Germany is Schizophrenic in this way, and needs to seperate political thought from the engineering realities. In the end they may just wind up buying nuclear power from France.
6
"'There are now a thousand energy cooperatives operated by private people,' said the energy economist Claudia Kemfert."
_______________
Can you imagine that happening here in the good old U.S. of A?
"Cooperatives! Socialism! Communism!" I can hear it now ...
_______________
Can you imagine that happening here in the good old U.S. of A?
"Cooperatives! Socialism! Communism!" I can hear it now ...
3
Spin! Green energy has cost the German middle class and in the end has to be backed up by fossil fuel power with little to no savings. It has been mostly an expensive boondoggle to appease the greens (former Reds). Another sounds good fells good experiment that doesn't work well.
2
'Green energy has cost the German middle class and in the end has to be backed up by fossil fuel power with little to no savings.'
You got it - and that might be the major differences between the US and Germany - 'The middle class' in Germany values their environment so highly thats its fine to spend money for it - and even lots of money.
And do you know this old American (Indian) saying?
'You can't eat it'!
#!
You got it - and that might be the major differences between the US and Germany - 'The middle class' in Germany values their environment so highly thats its fine to spend money for it - and even lots of money.
And do you know this old American (Indian) saying?
'You can't eat it'!
#!
German strength resides in not being a superpower and in having no aim to become a superpower. The idea that Germany should in any way prepare to confront Russia is frightening and ridiculously needless. Germany is strong in peace and will remain so as long as it is a "pacifist" country. The sort of Cold War writing coursing through this essay is simply immoral.
May Germany forever more be a pacifist country and find strength as a pacifist country.
May Germany forever more be a pacifist country and find strength as a pacifist country.
14
The Swiss and many other countries have managed quite well without having to send generations off to the meat grinder called War. Perhaps it's time for this country to get a clue.
Nancy - If they wish to pursue this course, then they should withdraw from NATO instead of being dependent upon it. We should withdraw every single American serviceman from the continent and we should do it now. Let us see how long German pacification then lasts.
Well Germany is simply what you get when a society's 1% decide to actually be patriotic themselves, educate their citizens to be rational and logical, tell the truth not emotionally appealing lies and work toward the common good - instead of seeing the majority as an enemy that must be controlled via deception and filling upper class bank accounts with more money than they could possibly spend in 10 live times.
25
Germany the next "superpower"? As a superpower, will it also have its own nuclear arsenal of weapons? Friedman wants Germany to re-arm. Without nuclear weapons, it would need a relatively large military with a few million troops and massive conventional weapons to confirm its superpower status. We want this? Germany wants it? What about its neighbors, all of whom were conquered and formerly occupied by the Germans? Do they want it? I'm glad Germany take the lead in promoting alternative energy use, but I don't see that development as related to or justification for the re-emergence of Germany as a military state and power. Haven't we been here twice in less than a hundred years? And don't tell me that it's all so very different these days and that Germany would never again seek to dominate its neighbors, etc. Ring the other one -- it's got bells on it.
13
I think he primarily means superpower in technology.
" Green Superpower", Green.
Actually if we hold our noses and take a good look, it is the USA which has been the warmonger starting with Vietnam and continuing with stirring up a hornet's nest in the Middle East.
There is another good model for the US closer to home.
Costa Rica already this year is 97% clean energy renewables. 97%.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2015/05/costa-ricas-energy-nearly-100-percent-clean/
An additional advantage of the Costa Rica model is they have no army, and no military involvement anywhere.
That is far better than Friedman's call for German green energy to be combined with new military power to be used aggressively.
Costa Rica already this year is 97% clean energy renewables. 97%.
http://www.ipsnews.net/2015/05/costa-ricas-energy-nearly-100-percent-clean/
An additional advantage of the Costa Rica model is they have no army, and no military involvement anywhere.
That is far better than Friedman's call for German green energy to be combined with new military power to be used aggressively.
34
Mark I am really happy to see your comments here in this domain. I like especially the final sentence. How can we get Friedman to reply to comments?
Larry
Larry
1
According to your article on Costa Rica: "But this Central American country of 4.5 million people still depends partially on fossil fuels. The official said “we use thermal energy generation as a complement because renewables depend on the climate and you can’t guarantee that there will always be wind or water.”
I never hear about the use of geothermal energy here in the US?
I never hear about the use of geothermal energy here in the US?
One wonders whether Mr. Friedman has the courage to speculate on the differences that make German progress possible and American progress unlikely. Could it be that the German people have a sense of community, shared responsibility, and common purpose that a wild west breed of I-got-mine-now-get-my-land Americans can never understand?
68
Contrary to its fame for engineering excellence Germany’s energy policy reflects an enumerates emotion. Its a country with highly concentrated use of energy in comparison to its surface area, yet its promoting a policy of a dispersed user. France’s nuclear power allows concentrated energy use in cities and pristine countryside. Germany on the other hand spreads the energy source to the countryside and then compensates for the intermittency of these solar and wind sources with belching black coal. Its not logical.
4
Why are you suggesting Germany add to the world's wasteful military budgets?
You claim "They're going to have to."
Armies are only meant to engage in battle and battles are inevitably won by killing.
I don't get it and frankly if you'd stop beating your chest I don't think you get it either.
You claim "They're going to have to."
Armies are only meant to engage in battle and battles are inevitably won by killing.
I don't get it and frankly if you'd stop beating your chest I don't think you get it either.
10
I certainly hope so Mr. Friedman. After turning the 20th Century into one big, seeping, bloody graveyard, I hope the Germans have learned their collective lesson on how not to lead. The Germans seem once again to be looking East through Poland, the Ukraine, into Mother Russia and the vast spaces. Will they create an atmosphere of one big, happy, clean village or will these lands once again become The Blood Lands, where the Russians and the Germans fight for control and the locals suffer greatly. I'm sure the Poles & the Ukrainians are wondering how they will come out. Both nations suffered the highest death rates in the last World War, or should I say the Second World War. After fighting the second one, we learned that no one war will end all war no matter how awful and how bloody it is.
5
Two cheers for Germany. While I applaud their pro-active approach to alternative forms of energy, I'm puzzled by their phasing out of nuclear. Let me get this straight; in wind and solar down time they are relying on dirty lignite coal? While perfectly good nuclear power plants are being retired? This tells me they really aren't serious about climate change.
Nuclear power plants are very, very dangerous. As someone who has been following the Fukushima story intently, I get it. But anyone who has studied the issue, knows that reaching our carbon goals with JUST wind, solar, electric cars and conservation is pure fantasy.
Nuclear power plants are very, very dangerous. As someone who has been following the Fukushima story intently, I get it. But anyone who has studied the issue, knows that reaching our carbon goals with JUST wind, solar, electric cars and conservation is pure fantasy.
26
There is no "perfectly good" nuclear power. Even when producing power safely, we're all still left with the hazardous waste. Don't let the costs of nuclear power fool you, the payments for it come much further down the road.
Obviously the need to punish Greece and Spain through austerity, austerity and more austerity is an attribute of a Nobel Peace Prize laureate. Germany has been waging a world economic war since 2008, and successfully winning it.
7
Yesterday, In a historic election, the New Democratic Party in Alberta, Canada (home of the tar sands), swept to a majority government, defeating the Conservative party which has been in power for 40 years. Watch for some exciting changes there with respect to energy development.
23
While here the right wing is fighting back against the "war on coal" and marching to the beat of big oil.
24
There is nothing whatever to be gained from a German military buildup. Their strategy, and a highly successful one, has been to let the US and Russian spend their resources on competing weapons and armies, while the Germans thrive as a pacifist green superpower. It's better for themselves and for the world.
26
Yes, presently their activity is mostly pacific. It's my prayer that you're correct.
The idea of a militarily aggressive Germany is as needless as it is wildly immoral and frightening. Have we forgotten the 2 World Wars? How could any columnist be soliciting for a newly militarily aggressive Germany?
15
As horrible as the past was with a strong German military, Nancy, who is the counterbalance to an aggressive, expansionist Russia? The histories of the French and Italians towards minorities are not good, and no one knows how much worse that record would have been if either France or Italy had military skills. There is no alternative to the Germans -- unless we expect that the United States will continue to incur that heavy cost.
To describe Germany as the green superpower is understandable but why push it on a confrontational course with Russia with which it enjoyes friendly ties and good economic/ trade relationship, and, of course some diplomatic leverage too on finding solution to the Ukrainian crisis?
15
Would you prefer that Germany adopt a more Neville Chamberlain-like approach to Ukraine? Should they tell the Russians that they can steal land, but just don't steal too much too fast?
Why always dump on the poor Greeks? Aren't they suffering enough?
3
"One problem: Germany still has tons of cheap, dirty lignite coal that is used as backup power for wind and solar, because cleaner natural gas is more expensive and nuclear is being phased out.
Ahem. Yeah that problem. Actually Germany is in a lot of turmoil. The problem is that Germany has two power generating systems.. a coal based one that runs 24/7 and then a Green decorative one that runs now and then, and not at night.
This drives Electric rates are about 300% higher than US/ French rates. It also makes the air dirtier . And to top it off, Germany will MISS CO2 targets because it burns so much coal.
If anything, Germany is the OBJECT LESSON of why Green Energy is folly.
Ahem. Yeah that problem. Actually Germany is in a lot of turmoil. The problem is that Germany has two power generating systems.. a coal based one that runs 24/7 and then a Green decorative one that runs now and then, and not at night.
This drives Electric rates are about 300% higher than US/ French rates. It also makes the air dirtier . And to top it off, Germany will MISS CO2 targets because it burns so much coal.
If anything, Germany is the OBJECT LESSON of why Green Energy is folly.
23
No, it's an object lesson as to why the policy makers should never ignore the engineers. It's also an object lesson as to why no source of energy is free of negative externalities.
Just back from 17 days in Shanghai & Beijing and saw with my own eyes what unrestrained use of brown coal can do: amazing expansion of an economy via electrification and air you need a N95 filter mask to breathe. Many Chinese appear to have accepted this tradeoff but I'll bet the consequences have yet to be fully appreciated.
11
"But it is not sustainable.", maybe we could work in quantum leap or paradigm shift? What has happened to precision is language? What is sustainable intended to convey in this sentence?
You read an article like this, especially the sections on good governance, and then think about the candidates in the Republican party now running for office, and well, we could become Greece with this line-up.
14
Here’s my prediction: Germany will be Europe’s first green, solar-powered superpower. Can those attributes coexist in one country, you ask? They’re going to have to.
Tom, where do you think Germany would be if it's leaders consisted of the right wing lunatic fringe that America has? Huckabee, DeMint, Boehner, Enzi, Inhofe, Crapo, etc. The list goes on and on.
Tom, where do you think Germany would be if it's leaders consisted of the right wing lunatic fringe that America has? Huckabee, DeMint, Boehner, Enzi, Inhofe, Crapo, etc. The list goes on and on.
14
Pacifism has been the main cause of the surge in Germany's economy.
Germans have seen for decades what America's post WW2 foreign military interventions have done to our economy.
Germans have seen for decades what America's post WW2 foreign military interventions have done to our economy.
10
"...near zero in about 15 years has been a great contribution to the stability of our planet and its climate."
Why does Friedman think he can just assert these things? Is there a shred of evidence to support any material change to the stability of the planet?
Great, Germany subsidized solar power to the point where it made economic sense for an individual, at the expense of everyone else. Not sure this is commendable, when the more efficient (both in terms of energy production and environmental concerns) option should be promoted in nuclear. Not seeing how this is commendable.
Why does Friedman think he can just assert these things? Is there a shred of evidence to support any material change to the stability of the planet?
Great, Germany subsidized solar power to the point where it made economic sense for an individual, at the expense of everyone else. Not sure this is commendable, when the more efficient (both in terms of energy production and environmental concerns) option should be promoted in nuclear. Not seeing how this is commendable.
1
Japan will, sooner or later, have to start producing nuclear weapons to offset a growing threat from China, and Germany becomes a superpower.
Meanwhile, the US, in the throes of a general dumbing down and increasing rule by the power elite, drifts closer and closer to third world status.
Our days of great Presidents like FDR and JFK seem like a dream now.
Meanwhile, the US, in the throes of a general dumbing down and increasing rule by the power elite, drifts closer and closer to third world status.
Our days of great Presidents like FDR and JFK seem like a dream now.
6
Don't agree. We have a golden opportunity to vote for the very issues I hear of in comments throughout the NYT, comprehensive climate change attention, medicare for all, no fast track TPP, living wage, to empower the majority of people in this country who do not comprise the one percent. Senator Bernie Sanders is running as a Democratic Socialist, on the Democrat ticket for the 2016 Presidency. Don't count the one percent in, but as a majority rule democratic nation in decline, but not yet lost, we have the power to contribute to Senator Sanders campaign and bring him into the Primaries. Will we do it, or will we continue to whine, while sitting passively by for republican regression and Clinton transgression ? I still have hope for us.
Mr. Friedman, first you note the elephant in the room, that there is "...One problem: Germany still has tons of cheap, dirty lignite coal that is used as backup power for wind and solar, because cleaner natural gas is more expensive and nuclear is being phased out".
Then you fail to note that their emissions have actually increased in the past couple of years, since their dependence on dirty coal has increased.
Don't both of these facts thoroughly discredit the premise of your entire article!?
Then you fail to note that their emissions have actually increased in the past couple of years, since their dependence on dirty coal has increased.
Don't both of these facts thoroughly discredit the premise of your entire article!?
10
It all sounds positive in Germany. Meanwhile, here in America, we have switched logos from the American Eagle to the Ostrich.
Keeping our head in the sand about helping all Americans sounds more like combat than competitiveness. At the least, Congress should show up to work on compromise and discard the disenfranchise economics more atuned to Germany's past.
Keeping our head in the sand about helping all Americans sounds more like combat than competitiveness. At the least, Congress should show up to work on compromise and discard the disenfranchise economics more atuned to Germany's past.
14
Germany tomorrow will have to overcome its deeply ingrained post-World War II pacifism and become a more serious, activist global power....
[ God forbid this happening, I shudder at the thought. ]
[ God forbid this happening, I shudder at the thought. ]
7
Our solar subsidies did jumpstart chinese mass solar production. But don't give us germans too much credit for this clever scheme to save the world. From our perspective, the fact that the subsidies ended up bolstering chinese production, rather then our own, was a failure.
And Friedman should have left out his prediction of Germany becoming a superpower. He scolds our hard won pacifism, so he must mean a military superpower. And that's just not going to happen. We germans are now merchant engineers with a passion. Think of us as a bigger Holland.
And Friedman should have left out his prediction of Germany becoming a superpower. He scolds our hard won pacifism, so he must mean a military superpower. And that's just not going to happen. We germans are now merchant engineers with a passion. Think of us as a bigger Holland.
87
China has been dumping solar panels on the world market at below the cost of production. The US initiated a 20% tariff on Chinese solar panels last summer in defense of our solar producers. Equitable trade policies are essential for all industries including solar.
On the other hand, Germany now exports billions annually in renewable energy technology -- just not the solar panels which are fairly low-tech.
The marketplace is ready to pursue clean energy. Now if the power brokers would get out of the way, perhaps we could "lead, follow, or get out of the way"
http://climatecrocks.com/2014/11/11/here-comes-the-sun-lead-follow-or-ge...
As to the rest, "jaw, jaw is better than war, war"
I know it's more complicated than that, but as far as I can see, every military effort is just creating more ruined neighborhoods and disaffected immature haters. War is the ultimate polluter.
http://climatecrocks.com/2014/11/11/here-comes-the-sun-lead-follow-or-ge...
As to the rest, "jaw, jaw is better than war, war"
I know it's more complicated than that, but as far as I can see, every military effort is just creating more ruined neighborhoods and disaffected immature haters. War is the ultimate polluter.
6
A similar policy just happened here in Missouri. We had a state subsidy in cooperation with Kansas City Power and Light. When originally enacted a few years ago, there was little activity. But when the price of solar panels dropped to less than $2.00 a watt, installations took off. Now that most the money has been used up, the pace of installations has declined in the area. The subsidy was $2.00 a watt in 2013, $1.50 last year and now only $1.00. At this low level, applications have essentially ceased for the small amount of funds that are left.
http://www.kcpl.com/save-energy-and-money/for-home/home-rebates/mo/solar...
Government created the demand. This got production ramped up and caused prices to drop. The local subsidy created demand for contractors to flourish. People put up their own money because they could finally afford the systems. Solar is a private/public partnership that really works. In fact, it is ideal because solar is a naturally diffuse energy source and is most effective if harnessed over a wide area. That means the public must get involved.
http://www.kcpl.com/save-energy-and-money/for-home/home-rebates/mo/solar...
Government created the demand. This got production ramped up and caused prices to drop. The local subsidy created demand for contractors to flourish. People put up their own money because they could finally afford the systems. Solar is a private/public partnership that really works. In fact, it is ideal because solar is a naturally diffuse energy source and is most effective if harnessed over a wide area. That means the public must get involved.
79
What Mr. Friedman neglects to say is Germany's increased use of renewables has come at the expense of sky-high electricity rates. The EU reports Germany's average residential electricity rate is 26 cents per kilowatt hour. This is nearly double the 14 cents per kWh reported for France or Poland, and more than double the US average of 12 cents per kWh. Denmark, which has gone even further than Germany with wind power, pays 30 cents per kWh. So, far from being progressive, the renewable energy programs conducted by Germany and Denmark have been brutally regressive, sharply limiting the availability of electricity to the poor.
7
About 1/2 of the cost of electricity in Germany are taxes and fees. This is the revenue source that the German people have elected to use as the means to finance their energy buildout. It also encourages conservation which is a huge benefit to all. This is their choice. After the buildout is complete, rates should decline.
1
Given that Friedman said this explicitly, you moght want to try reading the article next time.
what are the actual rates for those who have installed solar or wind? Solar will work best in the (literal) global south, where there is the most sun, especially for air conditioning.
I lived in Germany from 1971 to 1990. During that time, the Club of Rome published a study on the limits of growth that shocked Europe and cast a pall over Germany, then emerging from its rebuilding after WWII. Part of the aftermath of that study was an environmental consciousness that was fueled by traditional German 150% efficiency. In 1971 we had time of day electric pricing and a heating system that used the leftover night power to heat bricks in the radiators which then gave off their heat during the day and had a 2 hour recharge period from 1-3pm (when everyone on our floor vacuumed, washed clothes and ironed). Rejection of garbage was another biggie - bags and packaging were frowned on. In the 1980's a law was passed that allowed customers to leave what they considered excess packaging at the merchant for disposal. Blister packs and cartons with excess air disappeared almost overnight. There are stories abounding about persons in apartment complexes checking who is dumping garbage at night when the lid on the dumpster squeaks. Attention to food safety has taken a similar route - additives, preservatives, colorings - all the things just beginning to disturb US residents - were taken out of foods. Attention to healthy eating was ginormous 40+ years ago. Then came the nuclear power rejection - Harrisburg and Tchernobyl convinced the people that radiation danger was greater than their energy needs. This push to renewables is really just the next step in a long progression.
23
I predict that China's greatest benefit will not be derived by its solar panel industry, but as a result of its likely windfall acquisition of "tons of cheap, dirty (German) lignite coal" that will be increasing available on the world market as a result of diminished demand in Germany. China's insatiable demand for fossil-fuels will likely more than (negatively) off-set any global green-benefit derived from a reduction of green-houses gases in Germany - until China has a serious national policy to reduce its own fossil-fuel emissions, similar initiatives in much smaller countries will have little overall impact.
1
Your argument contains an unwarranted assumption fallacy. China has been investing in clean renewable energy in a big way. They are making headway. See this week's edition of the Economist for details.
Basically what Thomas wants is for Germany to become more like his favorite empire, The United States of America. Unfortunately for him, Germans are too well educated by their high-quality education system, from kindergarten through university, to ever fall for it. You see, unlike 80 percent of Americans, Germans believe in things like science and reason, not myth and superstition. And get this, they actually formulate social, economic, and cultural policies based on empirical studies and evidence and not what was written down by some tribe of Semites wandering around in a desert 4000 years ago. All the things Thomas cites like good government and the rule of law have long been abandoned by America's ruling classes and their sycophants in the media (Thomas being a prime example).
As to Friedman's tacked-on non-sequitur about Russian and China playing with their toy navies in the Mediterranean requiring some response from the Germans...only a flacky for the American empire would even give this sideshow even a passing glance. (Did the Chinese ever get any planes for that old refurbed Russian "aircraft" carrier they picked-up second hand?) But militarists like Friedman will use any flimsy excuse they can find to once again beat the drums of confrontation and war.
As to Friedman's tacked-on non-sequitur about Russian and China playing with their toy navies in the Mediterranean requiring some response from the Germans...only a flacky for the American empire would even give this sideshow even a passing glance. (Did the Chinese ever get any planes for that old refurbed Russian "aircraft" carrier they picked-up second hand?) But militarists like Friedman will use any flimsy excuse they can find to once again beat the drums of confrontation and war.
26
It's extremely silly to pretend that two countries as expansionist as Russian and China have recently been don't need any sort of confrontation whatsoever, given events in Crimea and elsewhere, not to mention China's dealings from Tibet to Vietnam.
Does this need to incolve just military force and bloated carrier groups? No. But these guys ain't building up their navies and stomping around just because they've got nothing better to do on the weekend.
Does this need to incolve just military force and bloated carrier groups? No. But these guys ain't building up their navies and stomping around just because they've got nothing better to do on the weekend.
Friedman is naturally attracted to, and protective of, the Energiewende scam because it is such a gigantic statist boondoggle. Only Tom and his kind are smart and caring enough to devise and run a project of such obvious and critical importance in Saving Humanity.
He doesn't give any information on the change in German utility rates thanks to this scam. I believe they are up 50% and destined to keep climbing. Industry will go broke unless it is given caps and subsidies which just means the rest of the public has to pay more. But the higher the price for consumers, the more the incentive to put panels on their houses to sell their trickle of watts back to the grid. When the subsidies and feed-in tariffs expire --because the German taxpayer is getting tired of paying for them-- the German power consumer is going to take it in the shorts.
Friedman says nothing about the inescapable dependence of solar on a commensurate increase in baseload capacity fueled by a non-variable energy source. You can't back up solar with solar, you have to back it up with nuc, nat gas or that lovely, lovely lignite. All of which Tom condemns as pricey or filthy or both.
It would be less dishonest for the greenscammers to call solar and wind a "supplement" to fossil and nuc power, rather than pitching it as a replacement. Which, absent battery or other storage capacity, it can never be.
Sent from my iPhone
He doesn't give any information on the change in German utility rates thanks to this scam. I believe they are up 50% and destined to keep climbing. Industry will go broke unless it is given caps and subsidies which just means the rest of the public has to pay more. But the higher the price for consumers, the more the incentive to put panels on their houses to sell their trickle of watts back to the grid. When the subsidies and feed-in tariffs expire --because the German taxpayer is getting tired of paying for them-- the German power consumer is going to take it in the shorts.
Friedman says nothing about the inescapable dependence of solar on a commensurate increase in baseload capacity fueled by a non-variable energy source. You can't back up solar with solar, you have to back it up with nuc, nat gas or that lovely, lovely lignite. All of which Tom condemns as pricey or filthy or both.
It would be less dishonest for the greenscammers to call solar and wind a "supplement" to fossil and nuc power, rather than pitching it as a replacement. Which, absent battery or other storage capacity, it can never be.
Sent from my iPhone
8
We got full-employment, a balanced budget, an export excess that is higher than the next two countries summed up, universal healthcare - we can afford it.
Electric energy is twice as expensive as in the US, be ensured, neither it will stay this way, nor will it stiffle our productivity.
And - the grid outage time in 2013 has been 15 min (US 90 min).
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/the-smarter-grid/germanys-sup...
Electric energy is twice as expensive as in the US, be ensured, neither it will stay this way, nor will it stiffle our productivity.
And - the grid outage time in 2013 has been 15 min (US 90 min).
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/energy/the-smarter-grid/germanys-sup...
4
Speaking of dishonest, it's extremely dishonest not to read--or to cherry-pick--this article, and then completely misrepresent what it says.
first off, Friedman was honest about the initial cost increases, which is to say the start-up costs for German solar and wind. And it's DIShonest of you to pretend that oil and coal never had such costs, which were paid in the past and continue to be paid today.
Second, it's extremely dishonest of you to slip lightly past the details about the DROPS in solar and wind costs--let alone the constant pretense that oil and coal don't have extraordinary costs for production, pollution and clean up that just aren't there with solar and wind. unless of course I missed the Great Gulf WindsPill of 2010 or something.
As so often, I wonder: whay can't you guys argue your case honestly? Why can't you just present the facts? Why do you rely on this sort of distortion, if you're so right?
first off, Friedman was honest about the initial cost increases, which is to say the start-up costs for German solar and wind. And it's DIShonest of you to pretend that oil and coal never had such costs, which were paid in the past and continue to be paid today.
Second, it's extremely dishonest of you to slip lightly past the details about the DROPS in solar and wind costs--let alone the constant pretense that oil and coal don't have extraordinary costs for production, pollution and clean up that just aren't there with solar and wind. unless of course I missed the Great Gulf WindsPill of 2010 or something.
As so often, I wonder: whay can't you guys argue your case honestly? Why can't you just present the facts? Why do you rely on this sort of distortion, if you're so right?
Subsidizing solar energy production is an investment in public health.
When one factors in the public and private costs associated with coal related degradation of our air quality, solar starts to look like a good economic alternative as well.
As to your argument that solar has to be backed up with other energy sources, so what? Let's get as much solar on line as possible and reduce the emissions from coal fired plants to whatever level is attainable. And let's also look at tidal, off-shore wind and fuel cells.
Do you want technological progress or not? The Wright Brothers' first airplane wasn't much of a transport, but look at what we are capable of now. Arguing for sticking with coal is like saying we should all be lighting our houses with candles and oil lamps. Coal's time is nearly done. Let's get going on solar and make it work. For better or for worse, we have 7.125 billion people on this planet, we need clean energy in a big way.
When one factors in the public and private costs associated with coal related degradation of our air quality, solar starts to look like a good economic alternative as well.
As to your argument that solar has to be backed up with other energy sources, so what? Let's get as much solar on line as possible and reduce the emissions from coal fired plants to whatever level is attainable. And let's also look at tidal, off-shore wind and fuel cells.
Do you want technological progress or not? The Wright Brothers' first airplane wasn't much of a transport, but look at what we are capable of now. Arguing for sticking with coal is like saying we should all be lighting our houses with candles and oil lamps. Coal's time is nearly done. Let's get going on solar and make it work. For better or for worse, we have 7.125 billion people on this planet, we need clean energy in a big way.
There are also other factors at work here in Germany's success (I'm an American working in Hamburg): for some 30 years Germany has systematically increased building and residential home efficiency. For the two years I've lived here I haven't had to heat my apartment, it's pretty much "passive". It's amazing how well it retains the natural heat in the building during winter. This kind of efficiency permeates everything, from super energy star appliances on down through Smart Cars and MINIs. The most important thing: these are shared values of conservation, values that have been fostered and promoted at all levels of German society.
What a difference to the US, where there is total moral relativism and laissez faire in this regard. We can thank Fox News for that, I guess!
What a difference to the US, where there is total moral relativism and laissez faire in this regard. We can thank Fox News for that, I guess!
19
While he is right on the advances that Germany, and to an even greater extent Austria, have made in "green energy", he is totally wrong in his assumptions that Germany would also have to become a greater military power in order to reflect it's current value.
Wars will always be fought partially by armies but that does not mean that a single country should need to have an army to feel powerful.
The EU, with all it's shortcomings, is a peace project and that means that a single country should not act alone when it comes to military operations outside this peace project.
And that means military cooperation of the members of the EU in the so called "Battle Groups".
Playing the world's police is a thing of the past and that is something the US will still have to learn.
Military power as a means to extend politics is a thing for a dying breed of aggressive but very stupid dinosaurs.
Without the consent of a large group for peace keeping missions, wars should not even be taken into consideration and only so for defence purposes.
What the Germans do, integrate into EU battle groups and NATO, is a much more intelligent thing than what he US does.
Going after an assumed enemy for domestic political gains is something that makes for a stupid terrorist organization of an era that is already on it's way out.
Even here, the Germany way is something the US needs to learn from.
And as for green energy, well, the US is still about 500 years behind EU standards, no competition.
Wars will always be fought partially by armies but that does not mean that a single country should need to have an army to feel powerful.
The EU, with all it's shortcomings, is a peace project and that means that a single country should not act alone when it comes to military operations outside this peace project.
And that means military cooperation of the members of the EU in the so called "Battle Groups".
Playing the world's police is a thing of the past and that is something the US will still have to learn.
Military power as a means to extend politics is a thing for a dying breed of aggressive but very stupid dinosaurs.
Without the consent of a large group for peace keeping missions, wars should not even be taken into consideration and only so for defence purposes.
What the Germans do, integrate into EU battle groups and NATO, is a much more intelligent thing than what he US does.
Going after an assumed enemy for domestic political gains is something that makes for a stupid terrorist organization of an era that is already on it's way out.
Even here, the Germany way is something the US needs to learn from.
And as for green energy, well, the US is still about 500 years behind EU standards, no competition.
5
Nobody talks about it, but Euros, in their green, self-satisfied hearts understand that they could never have built the entitlement frameworks they have if not for American soldiers, walking their walls for 70 years while their children slept securely. It wasn't Euros who paid for those soldiers.
Britain just reduced its defenses by another 30,000 men. In 1982, Margaret Thatcher could dispatch a carrier group to the Falklands to defend its territory and people from invasion -- they had two such groups then. Today they have none, and Argentina would eat their lunch raw. Fairly, they're commissioning two new ones that will see service soon -- nobody else in Europe comes close.
NATO is basically an extension of U.S. armed forces -- it's mostly Americans. Germany, of course, hasn't had a serious standing army since 1945.
This at a time when Vladimir Putin is showing the world that the U.S.S.R. may be dead, but ... not really ... right? And as Russia, so dependent economically on the sale of fossil-based energy destabilizes further, how do Euros propose to defend themselves? And it's beginning to look there like Tours, the decisive battle that stopped Islamic power from swallowing Europe in 732 AD. Except that this time they may not win.
No question that they need to project more force as a community, with Germany decidedly leading. The question is how, when the needs of butter have for so long overshadowed the need for guns?
Britain just reduced its defenses by another 30,000 men. In 1982, Margaret Thatcher could dispatch a carrier group to the Falklands to defend its territory and people from invasion -- they had two such groups then. Today they have none, and Argentina would eat their lunch raw. Fairly, they're commissioning two new ones that will see service soon -- nobody else in Europe comes close.
NATO is basically an extension of U.S. armed forces -- it's mostly Americans. Germany, of course, hasn't had a serious standing army since 1945.
This at a time when Vladimir Putin is showing the world that the U.S.S.R. may be dead, but ... not really ... right? And as Russia, so dependent economically on the sale of fossil-based energy destabilizes further, how do Euros propose to defend themselves? And it's beginning to look there like Tours, the decisive battle that stopped Islamic power from swallowing Europe in 732 AD. Except that this time they may not win.
No question that they need to project more force as a community, with Germany decidedly leading. The question is how, when the needs of butter have for so long overshadowed the need for guns?
1
A sound bite in an NPR promo for one of their drive-time shows--The Morning Edition possibly--asked, "If cheap solar panels are being made, whose buying them?" Your column answers that question.
Even more to the point, your column also shows an interesting contrast between the United States and Germany. In some states here, lobbying groups are convincing legislatures to roll back incentives to install solar energy. These efforts are funded by people who make their money from fossil fuels.
There was a time when the United States would have been a leader in private/public sector innovation for the common good (the enormous effort to win WWII comes to mind). But we seemed to have sacrificed all that for the benefit of an ever wealthier plutocracy.
Even more to the point, your column also shows an interesting contrast between the United States and Germany. In some states here, lobbying groups are convincing legislatures to roll back incentives to install solar energy. These efforts are funded by people who make their money from fossil fuels.
There was a time when the United States would have been a leader in private/public sector innovation for the common good (the enormous effort to win WWII comes to mind). But we seemed to have sacrificed all that for the benefit of an ever wealthier plutocracy.
12
My first visit to Germany was in 1968, where I was amazed at the social conscience of the young people, who initiated conversations about WW II and the Holocaust. My host was quick to point out that his city, Cologne, had a very low crime rate and how few homicides had occurred the previous year. Over the years my wife and I have visited, we comment on how quiet the country is and how it was impossible to imagine what had happened there during the two wars. Going back a number of years, we began to see wind turbines and read about the Green party. I wish that in the US we had a Green party to counterbalance the Red and Blue parties! Twice we visited during Gay Pride Week and were amazed at the calm. Another time we visited prior to the Pope's visit in Cologne and got to see the new generation express their youthful joie de vivre. I also think that Germany's leader, with a doctorate in physics, is ideally placed to move the country forward due to her deep understanding of science. Her serious, respectful approach is comforting in contrast to the infantile histrionics and propaganda that is foisted on the public by pols. One piece missing is some sort of Marshall Plan for southern Europe to be initiated by Germany through the EU. That's what brought Germany and Japan back from ruin. It can do the same for those European countries crippled by the Great Recession. Here in the US we would do well to apply ourselves to rational political discourse to get good results.
21
About the second point; it seems like a lot of the German reluctance to "project power" comes from the very reasonable perception that going somewhere else and killing people in order to promote non-vital interests isn't justifiable, either morally or in terms of what should be expected of civilized people. Attributing this attitude solely to their Nazi experience is simplistic and insulting; for younger Germans, it probably has much more to do with respect for education and culture, things that tend to flourish in fundamentally peaceful societies dedicated to respecting the rights and lives of others.
17
Have you read any German history? This "fundamentally peaceful society" business is new for them.
1. We are still, despite great leaps forward with solar, wind, and conservation, way behind safe projections on Climate Change. Even in Germany there are engineering hurdles far from solved to get to zero emissions, and that is what we need to do.
2. We environmentalists indict deniers for irrational resistance to scientific facts.
3. At the same time, we environmentalists resist, irrationally, the fact that nuclear has been responsible for by far the least amount of deaths of any fuel, AND engineers have learned from past disasters and know how to avoid them.
4. The AP1000 could be driving fossil fuels into history faster than we can do it with solar and wind alone, and the threat of losing to Climate Change is infinitely greater than the threat of a nuclear plant melt down. Climate Change can end the whole game.
5. We cannot risk losing this battle by sidelining a big hitter.
6. We can build very safe plants now, and invest in research to rapidly develop even safer ones: see Kirk Sorenson TED talk on Thorium, LIFTRS. China is doing both.
7. Or will we, like climate deniers, cling to irrational fear until we are doomed?
2. We environmentalists indict deniers for irrational resistance to scientific facts.
3. At the same time, we environmentalists resist, irrationally, the fact that nuclear has been responsible for by far the least amount of deaths of any fuel, AND engineers have learned from past disasters and know how to avoid them.
4. The AP1000 could be driving fossil fuels into history faster than we can do it with solar and wind alone, and the threat of losing to Climate Change is infinitely greater than the threat of a nuclear plant melt down. Climate Change can end the whole game.
5. We cannot risk losing this battle by sidelining a big hitter.
6. We can build very safe plants now, and invest in research to rapidly develop even safer ones: see Kirk Sorenson TED talk on Thorium, LIFTRS. China is doing both.
7. Or will we, like climate deniers, cling to irrational fear until we are doomed?
5
DMATH: There are no engineering hurdles on the path to carbon-free electric power plants (solar, wind, as well as nuclear). Only the path to carbon-free transportation has technological hurdles. But in the United States the real hurdle, not technological, is the lack of political will and a disfunctional government.
Have you solved the problem of where to put the waste?
How about the problem of how expensive it is to build, maintain and then dismantle the power stations?
And when offshore wind turbines break down, no one is irradiated.
How about the problem of how expensive it is to build, maintain and then dismantle the power stations?
And when offshore wind turbines break down, no one is irradiated.
Good to have examples to try to live up to. I've been impressed with Germany's integration of the impoverished East Germany while methodically leading the 'whole' country into probably the best mixed economy in the world. Social democracy can work, even in very challenging circumstances.
You are so right about the Nobel Prize for what they're doing with clean, renewable energy. You should write the committee personally. That is not a crazy idea. That is what this planet desperately needs to try and move from the climatic chaos we're now experiencing (with worse to come, most scientists would say).
I'm not sure how we've become such and pawn of lobbyists for corporations and wealth, while Germany has not. We need that mojo.
You are so right about the Nobel Prize for what they're doing with clean, renewable energy. You should write the committee personally. That is not a crazy idea. That is what this planet desperately needs to try and move from the climatic chaos we're now experiencing (with worse to come, most scientists would say).
I'm not sure how we've become such and pawn of lobbyists for corporations and wealth, while Germany has not. We need that mojo.
17
The German's sure messed up under Hitler in the 1930's and 40's, but they have done all they can to make up for it to become responsible in the world since.
The Germans also have universal health care which I guess Republican Presidential candidate, Ben Carson, would call slavery. It's time Americans lose the hubristic notion of "American exceptionalism", start looking at ourselves with clear eyes. What kind of extreme paranoia is it that declares that President Obama is ordering the U.S. military take over Texas and declare martial law? How does that look to the rest of the world? Not exceptional, but deranged, while China eats our lunch. This century has seen our standing to the rest of the world greatly diminished.
The Germans also have universal health care which I guess Republican Presidential candidate, Ben Carson, would call slavery. It's time Americans lose the hubristic notion of "American exceptionalism", start looking at ourselves with clear eyes. What kind of extreme paranoia is it that declares that President Obama is ordering the U.S. military take over Texas and declare martial law? How does that look to the rest of the world? Not exceptional, but deranged, while China eats our lunch. This century has seen our standing to the rest of the world greatly diminished.
20
I lived in Germany for five years after the Berlin Wall fell. The relationship that Germans have with their environment impressed me tremendously. Through their vast network of walking and bicycle paths they enjoy easy access to the landscape in a way that Americans could not imagine. As a result they are very protective of their natural resources and employ the precautionary principle when it comes to environmental and energy policy. I would take heart in the example they set if I thought Americans were open to learning from nations beyond their borders but forty years in the United States have convinced this is very unlikely to happen, ever. About 3% of Americans travel overseas every year. Most Americans don't have a clue what life is like beyond our peculiar isolation from a world we still dominate or how other nations solve the problems we have in common.
41
Meredith and Ruppert and Larry in their previous posts all convey the responses I would make to this article. I would add this: While we have to try the best we can at the present to improve in areas like energy, public education, more solid health care coverage, etc., we probably will not be able to see the massive improvements in energy seen in Germany until we deal with the dystunctionality and obsolescence of our political system. Mind-bogglingly powerful special interest groups, private industries, and individual people will be able to stand in the way of reforms that would benefit the American people until such time as our way of electing our government is profoundly overhauled. I would not be so pessimistic as to say that will never happen, but I think we are going to have to struggle and work on it for about a generation before we might see some real progress.
11
We are exporting a lot of coal to Germany so it must be going somewhere.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579543814192542586
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579543814192542586
1
Friedman does an admirable job on the basics of the Energiewende, including points usually ignored in American coverage: The FiT was about reducing the price of PV solar through increased demand (and it worked); individual and community ownership of energy production was a key driver (independence from monopoly utilities).
But in his conflation of world leadership and military might, Friedman misunderstands the origins of the Energiewende. The drive for renewable sources of energy grew out the anti-nuclear, anti-war movement. Green Party leader Hans-Josef Fell, one of the main authors of Germany's renewable energy law (2000), was the first conscientious objector from his region. The widespread adoption of renewable energy in Germany was, for Fell, a way to prevent wars over oil. Those roots make it unlikely that Germany will become a military superpower again. They don't need to. By exporting technologies sparked by the Energiewende, they're becoming an economic superpower.
But in his conflation of world leadership and military might, Friedman misunderstands the origins of the Energiewende. The drive for renewable sources of energy grew out the anti-nuclear, anti-war movement. Green Party leader Hans-Josef Fell, one of the main authors of Germany's renewable energy law (2000), was the first conscientious objector from his region. The widespread adoption of renewable energy in Germany was, for Fell, a way to prevent wars over oil. Those roots make it unlikely that Germany will become a military superpower again. They don't need to. By exporting technologies sparked by the Energiewende, they're becoming an economic superpower.
76
Indeed a remarkable accomplishment, and doubly so, as - according to Paul Krugman - Germany consistently follows the wrong economic policy ...
6
I think you're misrepresenting Krugman -- as I understand what he's said about Germany, it's not that they follow the wrong economic policy for Germany, it's that they prescribe (nay, demand!) the wrong economic policy for other countries.
Those wrong economic policies have little to do with energy. They are about austerity for countries outside Germany. Your attempt to mix apples and oranges is disingenuous.
The biggest gain: proving that saving the ecology is a benefit for the economy.
And it provides a lot of jobs, basically for free, because this is already included in the costs. Around 1% of the workforce is needed additionally for green energy, at least for the next 20 years (keystone XL is a aperitif against that).
By the way, subsidizing green energy run out last year, it is completely self sustaining. All the subsidizes are for the older powerplants and run for 20 years, so we will gradually reduce all subsidizes in time as they fade out. This implies green energy is still expensive just because of former subsidizes.
And it provides a lot of jobs, basically for free, because this is already included in the costs. Around 1% of the workforce is needed additionally for green energy, at least for the next 20 years (keystone XL is a aperitif against that).
By the way, subsidizing green energy run out last year, it is completely self sustaining. All the subsidizes are for the older powerplants and run for 20 years, so we will gradually reduce all subsidizes in time as they fade out. This implies green energy is still expensive just because of former subsidizes.
14
Our Republican representation in Congress is drill baby drill, even while the wind farms go up around them (including one that is being built within sight of their family farm). Germany's experience of "price drops of more than 80 percent for solar, and 55 percent for wind" are just the start. If the renewable energy deniers would pay attention to money and basic economics, they would have their answer. The UNSUBSIDIZED cost per megawatt of electricity for solar and wind is now less than coal and nat gas is LESS than coal. Further, the cost curve for solar and wind is continuing DOWNWARD and shows no sign of stopping while there is nothing that coal can do to produce cheaper electricity. At the same time almost all the Fortune 500 companies have implemented energy efficiency measures.
59
Before you gush too much you might look at the elemental cost of wind farms. They require a lot of land, kills birds, requires a back up the amount of power it produces. (no savings there) Requires more transmission infrastructure. (not free) The wind machines themselves require constant maintenance and on an increasing amount as the machines age. Do not forget the cost of the machines and the energy required to make them. There is no free lunch only those that some one else payees for.
German has adopted green policies that are to be commended, but it is still listed as one of the top six countries that emit carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, causing climate change and catastrophic repercussions across the globe.
12
maybe in absolute numbers,
but we are one of the four countries that meet the Kyoto Protocoll.
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/kyoto-whos-on-target/
but we are one of the four countries that meet the Kyoto Protocoll.
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/kyoto-whos-on-target/
9
Yes, that's because the clowns in Congress don't allow us to export natural gas to EU so they can drop their dependency on Russia. Even though they supported the US on santions.
Number six.
For the high standard of living, for an economy based on exports, for the size of the country and population, not bad.
Not great, but not bad.
It is a process. One I wish the US would start.
For the high standard of living, for an economy based on exports, for the size of the country and population, not bad.
Not great, but not bad.
It is a process. One I wish the US would start.
But according to our supremely wise GOP, the German energy revolution has been intended, above all, to assist in the mitigation of a fabricated predicament. And of course they would know because their party is renowned for its respect for, and understanding of, science. Clearly, Europeans are patsies if they accept this global warming business. It's all such terrific codswallop -- just ask Senator James Mountain Inhofe, perhaps the wisest and most courageous congressperson this country has ever produced.
All hail Jimmy Mountain.
All hail Jimmy Mountain.
45
That's the global warming is a hoax because snowball guy, right?
I very sincerely hope you are waving a little sign that says "Sarcasm" off camera. Oh good, you are. Whew!
We helped rebuild Germany after WW2. Now the German policies have become models of education, healthcare, employment equality, social welfare, diplomacy, and energy production for America and the rest of the world. Let's learn how to improve the quality of our citizens lives from one of our greatest allies.
88
"German policies have become models of education, healthcare, employment equality, social welfare, diplomacy, and energy production for America"
That has been true of Germany since Bismarck created a social security retirement system and a worker compensation system in the 19th Century while our Robber Barons were still on their last rampage. It took us 50 years and FDR to adopt what Bismarck had done.
The US has always been slow to learn from others. National health care is still 75 years behind the rest of the developed world, and not yet really catching up. Meanwhile, half of our politicians are trying to dismantle Social Security.
We don't lack models. We have our politics, and we suffer for it.
That has been true of Germany since Bismarck created a social security retirement system and a worker compensation system in the 19th Century while our Robber Barons were still on their last rampage. It took us 50 years and FDR to adopt what Bismarck had done.
The US has always been slow to learn from others. National health care is still 75 years behind the rest of the developed world, and not yet really catching up. Meanwhile, half of our politicians are trying to dismantle Social Security.
We don't lack models. We have our politics, and we suffer for it.
112
It started already with Frederick the Great. But there are reasons that you don't examine: Germany has had a policy that defines being German as a racial thing, this means that people feel an affinity towards their fellow Germans that Americans will never feel towards their fellow citizens, especially as the trend here is to, more and more, value difference. (FDR was able to push his ideas through Congress because the Great Depression was the great unifying fact of American life, uniting the working class across cultures.) It's very difficult to convince people to support "the other" and, conversely, very easy to use "the other" as a political tool (Hitler?). Germans (and Danes and Swedes, etc.) support policies that help everyone (other Germans, Danes, Swedes) because there is a commonality of culture that unites people.
2
I work for a large company that was bought by a German company a decade or so ago. The county where we are located is very conservative - full of Fox News people. Shudder. The people who work in this part of the company are also very conservative. The second largest private employer in the county is Walmart. The contrast between how our management treats us and how the rest of the county lives has been quite illuminating. Our German owners are the best thing that ever happened to this company. Liberal vacation policies, caring HR policies in every way imaginable, investment in training and the tools to do our jobs, and soaring productivity as a response. Top management treats us all with respect and as partners. It's not that they make us think this; it's truly how they operate. I wish the Germans could run our government.
7
In spite of the clear benefits to the economic and environmental health of Germany, in spite of the popularity, in spite of the success of that country's Feed-in Tariff, good luck in explaining it to conservatives in this country. It would immediately be labeled an "energy tax", even though it's not, and ALEC and the Kochs would mobilize armies of legislators to defeat it.
Lucky for the Germans, they didn't have a sclerotic right wing holding them back like we have.
Lucky for the Germans, they didn't have a sclerotic right wing holding them back like we have.
153
"...good luck in explaining it to conservatives in this country. " It shouldn't be a matter of luck. If the truth is on your side, LUCK SHOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
But, of course, I'm preaching to the choir. The problem for those of us in the climate change movement is, is being allowed to turn around and face the congregation.
But, of course, I'm preaching to the choir. The problem for those of us in the climate change movement is, is being allowed to turn around and face the congregation.
"And in the Mediterranean Sea, where Europe now faces a rising tide of refugees (and where Russia and China just announced that their navies will hold a joint exercise in mid-May), Germany will have to catalyze some kind of E.U. naval response."
Why?
Why?
25
Answer: Putin just authorized the sale of air defense missile systems to Iran.
I just got back from Italy, they are tired of assuming the burden of stopping refugees. They have threatened to ship all refugees to their border and let them go. This is why germany must help in the interdiction effort.
The level of austerity that the Germans have forced the Greeks to undergo is staggering and counter-productive. Indeed, if you look at the size of the primary surplus Greece is running, it is actually surprising that the Greek economy has not shrunk more than it has done. I recommend that Friedman educate himself by following Krugman's blog, rather than echoing the German line. A bit of data might improve the analysis.
15
unfortunately the latest figures out of the IMF show a primary deficit of 1.5 percent
Austria deserves a huge round of applause in solar/wind power technology as well. Not only does it lead in advanced technology in this area I can only attest to the radical changes in my use of energy since I came to live here 25 years ago from America.
Our children are educated from the time they enter kindergarten on their own individual responsibility in energy conservation. This is a theme that is engrained so deeply that their consciousness about the environment and protecting resources are formed and practiced in every area of their lives--from what they buy, from what country they buy from, how far the product is transported, from water usage (it is not uncommon that an entire family bathes in the same water drawn in a tub--something unthinkable to Americans!). Recycling, active removal of any trash seen in our forest while hiking regardless of who was thoughtless enough to dump in the first place. Also at home this recycling is a daily aspect of our effort to conserve our resources. They are precious and we don't take them for granted.
We wouldn't think of running our air-conditioners (we don't have any) in an empty home for 8 hours so we could enter to "chill" the moment we come home. Changing energy needs and protecting our planet starts with each individual making a daily effort. I changed completely living here and I'm grateful for this knowledge and grateful for the beauty of this land. Solar. Wind. Wonderful!
Our children are educated from the time they enter kindergarten on their own individual responsibility in energy conservation. This is a theme that is engrained so deeply that their consciousness about the environment and protecting resources are formed and practiced in every area of their lives--from what they buy, from what country they buy from, how far the product is transported, from water usage (it is not uncommon that an entire family bathes in the same water drawn in a tub--something unthinkable to Americans!). Recycling, active removal of any trash seen in our forest while hiking regardless of who was thoughtless enough to dump in the first place. Also at home this recycling is a daily aspect of our effort to conserve our resources. They are precious and we don't take them for granted.
We wouldn't think of running our air-conditioners (we don't have any) in an empty home for 8 hours so we could enter to "chill" the moment we come home. Changing energy needs and protecting our planet starts with each individual making a daily effort. I changed completely living here and I'm grateful for this knowledge and grateful for the beauty of this land. Solar. Wind. Wonderful!
82
And along the way, beautiful rural vistas have been destroyed by ever-increasing massive white windmills.
Let alone that one of the most controversial things on the plate right now is to run a massive set of powerlines through the middle of the country, in protected lands with natural views, in order to support even more wind/solar power.
I wonder just how supportive folks would be if the Grand Canyon was lined with windmills.
Let alone that one of the most controversial things on the plate right now is to run a massive set of powerlines through the middle of the country, in protected lands with natural views, in order to support even more wind/solar power.
I wonder just how supportive folks would be if the Grand Canyon was lined with windmills.
7
Castor, give me a rural landscape that has "massive white windmills" (having spent time driving through Germany on business, I actually like their architectural design) versus dirty/ugly coal fired power plants any day of the week. As far as the power lines, any power grid requires lines, so it is part of the price we pay to have a modern electrical system. Hopefully, some day, our ability to incorporate solar/wind into our buildings will make the use of a grid system obsolete.
4
We could put the windmills right next to the tracking towers in beautiful rural Ohio, or near the sheered off mountain tops in beautiful rural W.VA. or behind the huge new power lines going up along the roads everywhere in the midwest, or guarding the pipe line mess that we are beginning to see in the west or many many other places that we are messing up in the US that once were bucolic farm lands. Personally, I think a windmill is a thing of beauty. Why can't we smart Americans put them up and transform them into a spot of beauty in a country side. They don't have to be in farms.
1
Residential solar involves no transmission lines and doesn't obstruct views.
With solar panel efficiency at 23% and rising, every city in Arizona could easily be a solar city today, if only Arizonans had the will. No unsightly wind farms necessary.
With solar panel efficiency at 23% and rising, every city in Arizona could easily be a solar city today, if only Arizonans had the will. No unsightly wind farms necessary.
3
In the end every joint naval exercise uses China's new manufacturing wealth in questionable fashion. I hope insulation and controls are also seen as vital components in energy conservation .Give me Jimmy's sweater sans angnst and I'll shoq you a useful sheep in sheep's clothing .
1
Friedman reveals his inner neocon, Iraq War "suck on this" style, with his comment: "Germany tomorrow will have to overcome its deeply ingrained post-World War II pacifism and become a more serious, activist global power."
By "leadership" he means spending on its military and using that military. He also no doubt means doing that at the beck and call of the US, the way Britain did under Blair.
That isn't "leadership." That isn't something the Germans want to do. That isn't something anyone else in Europe would welcome from Germany.
Most of all, we all learned the hard way last century that such ideas lead to nothing good for Germany, Europe, or the world.
By "leadership" he means spending on its military and using that military. He also no doubt means doing that at the beck and call of the US, the way Britain did under Blair.
That isn't "leadership." That isn't something the Germans want to do. That isn't something anyone else in Europe would welcome from Germany.
Most of all, we all learned the hard way last century that such ideas lead to nothing good for Germany, Europe, or the world.
68
Mark I remember that as I read that first paragraph I reacted thinking, why does Friedman not just concentrate on the renewable energy part of the picture. Then I wrote only about that.
But you have awakened me. You are right that he is not alone in seeing America as war ready and expansively so. This mentality was revealed in in off topic reply to a comment of mine several days ago in which I think I wrote about providing Universal Health Care and the replier in a confusing reply seemed to say - Yes because Sweden is protected by NATO it can spend money on healthcare.
Larry
But you have awakened me. You are right that he is not alone in seeing America as war ready and expansively so. This mentality was revealed in in off topic reply to a comment of mine several days ago in which I think I wrote about providing Universal Health Care and the replier in a confusing reply seemed to say - Yes because Sweden is protected by NATO it can spend money on healthcare.
Larry
2
The United States and Europe would like to spread democracy. China and Russia would like to spread totalitarianism. That's why Germany needs to step up.
Most of Europe is on the way to becoming like what Greece is today. A former power with historic and beautiful cities and buildings that is a great tourist destination. Germany is still a great economic and industrial power Great Britain and France have waned.
Most of Europe is on the way to becoming like what Greece is today. A former power with historic and beautiful cities and buildings that is a great tourist destination. Germany is still a great economic and industrial power Great Britain and France have waned.
Right on, Mr. Thomason.
1
While I wish our country would be willing to follow Germany's lead, one phrase in this op ed piece makes me think it will never happen here: "The Germans who installed solar ended up making money, which is why the program remains popular, EXCEPT IN COAL PRODUCING REGIONS." In the US, not only the COAL producing regions will push back, but also the OIL producing regions… and when you add those two regions together you are talking about a majority of the US.
Oh… and two other obstacles:
First, the GOVERNMENT led the way in Germany--- and in our country we ALL know that "government is the problem".
And second, our Senate has voted that humans are NOT the cause of climate change. Hm-m-m-m…. maybe government IS the problem in our country!
Oh… and two other obstacles:
First, the GOVERNMENT led the way in Germany--- and in our country we ALL know that "government is the problem".
And second, our Senate has voted that humans are NOT the cause of climate change. Hm-m-m-m…. maybe government IS the problem in our country!
114
That is the problem when you let selfish interests trump national, even global, interests.
Your point on "government" -- meaning, really, entrenched party-based interests -- is underscored by polls reported in today's Times that show Americans are much closer on most issues than their loud-mouthed, extremist representatives.
We have to roll up our sleeves and push back against the money and the insensible rhetoric and the gerrymandering that stalls forward progress on the issues we face.
We have to roll up our sleeves and push back against the money and the insensible rhetoric and the gerrymandering that stalls forward progress on the issues we face.
From this dual German-American, a heartfelt thank you for your kind op ed about Germany, Mr. Friedman. An important reason for why the Energiewende continues to succeed, albeit with varying good will among member states, is that the general public in Germany is not polemicized and prone to validating fringe opinions as truths. I don't hear Germans rail against "socialist dictatorship" when it comes to the Energiewende. Why is there such a broad-based acceptance of progressive ideals? IMO, it's in great part thanks to a high-quality media, resulting in an enlightened populace. Abundant science- international and national news programs or political talk shows featuring regular working people as guests- and yes- for which we pay modest fees. Germany can continue to foster change in energy and refugee policy alike without trumpeting its leadership position. France is supporting climate protection with billion-dollar investments and Sweden is taking in refugees in high numbers, too. What't more essential is that Germany preserve its progressive, well informed, rational-discourse seeking populace and not fall under the spell of extremist, anti-science, anti-immigrant, heck, anti-reality political views, egged on by an extremist, sensationalist, propaganda-spewing media. I'm content to hear we're quite liked by the Spaniards, Italians or French now and happy that I can call myself a citizen of the world here, because the world is actually part of the daily discourse here.
244
Thank-you, no. I've lived all over the World and I like the messy free press we have in this country. Also, our country is not European. We are from all over and different parts of the country have different cultural populations. There is no one size fits all here. I speak from one state that produces the most wind energy in the states (I think).
Interesting view Mr. Friedman. However I mention to your attention that the average price of last solar tender 91,7€/MWh is higher than the subsidized price of current market premium model (90,2€/MWh) EEG2014. So Germany photovoltaic plants have still some way to do in order to become fully competitive with other energy sources.
6
Energiewende is NOT about quarterly profit.
It is about responsibility and reason.
And long-term profit probably.
It is about responsibility and reason.
And long-term profit probably.
30
Totally correct, msf! and I would like to add that so many other things are NOT tied to quarterly profit, no matter what the recipients of those profits would like us to believe. Small things, like health, and the food security that has a lot to do with it, safe and comfortable public transportation, and on and on...
1
Great, we can have another Solyndra again and again. Perhaps if we had a government that wasn't one big bunch of crony capitalists (either democrat or republican, their equally to blame), but right now we don't and I don't appreciate throwing money down a hole.
I applaud Larry Lundgren for taking the time to comment on High tech municipal solid waste incineration (MSWI) and other renewable initiatives of Sweden and Denmark from which I have recently returned. Let me just add that the MSWI covers 75% of heating needs of the cities and that they now import garbage from Norway to fill a gap.
And thanks to Tom for providing real information. That's what this country needs right now - real information. No more denials, distortions, and outright fabrications.
And thanks to Tom for providing real information. That's what this country needs right now - real information. No more denials, distortions, and outright fabrications.
90
@JEH Sorry we could not meet when you were here. My comments from Sweden are often seen by a subset of NYT repliers as worthless since "Sweden is a small country". Logic escapes me. MSWI works city by city and as you perhaps saw in Sweden or Denmark some of the incinerators are quite close to well off residential districts and as far as I know are well accepted.
Elisabeth Rosenthal had a fine article on DK MSWI in 2013 at which an NYU engineering professor expressed his view that New York City and surroundings were medieval in not accepting MSWI. Just a note about garbage. Here in Linköping, the food waste goes into green plastic bags that are sorted out from the MSW at the incinerators shown at my blog. This waste then becomes biogas.
Thanks, drop in next time.
Larry
Elisabeth Rosenthal had a fine article on DK MSWI in 2013 at which an NYU engineering professor expressed his view that New York City and surroundings were medieval in not accepting MSWI. Just a note about garbage. Here in Linköping, the food waste goes into green plastic bags that are sorted out from the MSW at the incinerators shown at my blog. This waste then becomes biogas.
Thanks, drop in next time.
Larry
24
I'd like to see more posts from both of you on these sensible ideas: any time we can turn waste streams into useful inputs, esp. if it reduces coal burning, is a good idea for economists and ecologists IMHO. Please consider commenting on Prof. Krugman's blog too.
Mark I did comment on Professor Krugman's column yesterday but maybe missed blog. Hope to send a Letter to the Editor on the Krugman column since my final comment was not accepted.
Thanks. Oh I should mention. In Somerset MA there is the giant Somerset coal burning plant.
I would like to see an analysis showing how many MWIncinerators it would take to replace Somerset or half or a fourth.
The fuel for the incinerators does not have to be mined. Air contamination from this process is far less than from coal, dramatically less for for example S02. And the methane that would have been generated in landfills does not get produced (methane is worse than C02). Finally, there are no landfills except for the ash - a fine example is in Millbury MA.
thanks
Larry
Thanks. Oh I should mention. In Somerset MA there is the giant Somerset coal burning plant.
I would like to see an analysis showing how many MWIncinerators it would take to replace Somerset or half or a fourth.
The fuel for the incinerators does not have to be mined. Air contamination from this process is far less than from coal, dramatically less for for example S02. And the methane that would have been generated in landfills does not get produced (methane is worse than C02). Finally, there are no landfills except for the ash - a fine example is in Millbury MA.
thanks
Larry
Deutschlanders are a generous lot.
They donate liberally.
I hope that they transfer the Solar & Wind Power technologies to all third world nations.
Along with Rev Martin Luther's Religious Reformation movement this transfer will be modern day Reformation of Energy Generation.
They donate liberally.
I hope that they transfer the Solar & Wind Power technologies to all third world nations.
Along with Rev Martin Luther's Religious Reformation movement this transfer will be modern day Reformation of Energy Generation.
10
I am fortunate enough to have property in the US and the UK. My electricity bill for my 2800 sq. ft. house in the USA which has solar panels averages about $50 per month, and that includes winter heating and summer cooling. This cost is partly the result of selling back excess power created to the utility company, and partly because of high levels of insulation in walls and roof.
The community on the outskirts of Cambridge where my UK apartment is probably has solar panels on one in ten homes, and that number is increasing all the time. There are probably 200 installations in all -- there are not that number in the whole area covered by our utility district in Tennessee.
When are we in the US going to wake up to this one? I sometimes cynically think that Americans enjoy paying high utility bills and burning CO2!
The community on the outskirts of Cambridge where my UK apartment is probably has solar panels on one in ten homes, and that number is increasing all the time. There are probably 200 installations in all -- there are not that number in the whole area covered by our utility district in Tennessee.
When are we in the US going to wake up to this one? I sometimes cynically think that Americans enjoy paying high utility bills and burning CO2!
61
Richard Kew, I agree and would add that we have industrialists and investors who have bet on hydrocarbons and have the resources to buy Congress, state legislatures, and academic shills who provide the laws and rationale for coal and oil subsidies, for tax credits, and for exemptions from air and water pollution which impair America's progress in moving from global warming technologies to green energy. America is a captive of our hydrocarbon industry.
51
I don't want any more subsidies to any more industries and I want the subsidies cut to the remaining industries now. It's just more corruption and I don't want anymore government help to favored industries.
If Germany was really green, it would be doubling the number of nuclear power stations, rather than closing their existing ones. All the projections are that as those stations close, the only viable replacement is coal or gas. Renewables just wont have the necessary scale or consistency to power such an industrial country. Watch as German consumers pay again to fix these mistakes....
14
Projections about nuclear energy being replaced by coal and gas are the fabrication of the nuclear energy propaganda department. Wind and solar are the beginning. Geothermal, wave and tidal energy have not been exploited.
10
Joseph not one of the renewable technologies that you mention could possibly come close to the immense power generation capacity of a single modern nuclear plant. Do you really think the tides are going to be sufficient to power all those robots in German factories?
7
The German aversion to nuclear energy is terribly deep. The usual American perspective never takes into account the psyche of a culture - the general population would most likely cut back their energy consumption before allowing any new reactor online (I lived there for 20 years).
5
Meanwhile, in the United States we lag farther and farther behind the rest of the developed world in utilizing clean energy technology. A climate denying troglodyte Republican Congress, captured the by a fossil fuel industry with unlimited financial resources, refuses to even admit that the country desperately needs to reduce it carbon output. Gangster capitalism, fueled by greed, is slowly destroying any hope that the United States will assume a leadership role in adopting alternative fuel sources. The far right propaganda machine, including Faux News, feeds 30% of the electorate a 24/7 diet of fear, paranoia, anger and hate, while denying science and crushing reason. This country is in a terrible state and its future looks bleak as we continue to tear ourselves apart over foolish wedge issues. It appears we can only watch while other counties pass us by on the road to a sustainable, low-carbon energy future. In the United States greed will always trump science. We have only ourselves to blame.
190
The real tragedy is that other than former empires, not only the US will crumble - but the biggest polluters will pull down civilizations of the whole planet.
Nature knows no politics.
Climate knows no borders.
Nature knows no politics.
Climate knows no borders.
27
Evidence, competence, relevance, impact and gain should be the criteria by which reformation in energy production should be measured. Instead, ideology, ignorance, deception and politics financed by the greedy no holds barred barons of energy is our national narrative. Shame, shame, shame...get out to vote or stay at home angry and disillusioned. Its your choice and my choice and the choice of every American. VOTE!!!!!
1
We might start on the road to redemption by adopting the metric system, which the rest of the world already uses.
In the Franken region of Bavaria where I live, one can see the effects of all the investment in renewable energy sources. From my backyard, I can see at least 15 wind turbines and if one drives south along the A9 Autobahn and west along the A70 Autobahn, there are fields of solar panels deployed. The local farmers were incentivized to have wind turbines erected on their land by receiving annual payments of approximately 18K Euros per year. With farms hosting several turbines, it was quite the "windfall"!
46
It's almost impossible, in a world so full of bad news, to say how *good* good news feels to me. To plan (in a stereotypically "Teutonic" way) how to tax all German citizens so as to create a market for solar & wind energy -- & to succeed, sounds like a minor miracle to jaded American ears.
All is *not* lost, even if I sometimes, in gloomy moods, decide it is. What Germany has done with energy, these United States can do. Perhaps, given both political parties' bad reputation among voters, we ordinary Americans who just want our wonderful nation to *work* again, can join forces for creating a more rational, sustainable power grid. Thanks, Tom, for raising my mood this morning.
All is *not* lost, even if I sometimes, in gloomy moods, decide it is. What Germany has done with energy, these United States can do. Perhaps, given both political parties' bad reputation among voters, we ordinary Americans who just want our wonderful nation to *work* again, can join forces for creating a more rational, sustainable power grid. Thanks, Tom, for raising my mood this morning.
49
"On the first point, what the Germans have done in converting almost 30 percent of their electric grid to solar and wind energy from near zero in about 15 years has been a great contribution to the stability of our planet and its climate."
The Republican Party in general and Mitch McConnell in particular are determined to deny the US from even beginning to try this path. Coal today, coal tomorrow, and coal forever. Like with PPACA, the hard-right knows that if a similar kind of reform was put in place it would succeed and it would become popular (unless demonized without mercy), therefore, it must be fought with all due ferocity. Obama's (and, presumably, Clinton's) EPA will only be able to do so much without congressional cooperation. Yet seemingly all the Republicans have to do is warn of home energy bill explosions, which invariably succeed in scaring off support for a greener and eventually cheaper means of powering our buildings and improving our quality of life.
The Republican Party in general and Mitch McConnell in particular are determined to deny the US from even beginning to try this path. Coal today, coal tomorrow, and coal forever. Like with PPACA, the hard-right knows that if a similar kind of reform was put in place it would succeed and it would become popular (unless demonized without mercy), therefore, it must be fought with all due ferocity. Obama's (and, presumably, Clinton's) EPA will only be able to do so much without congressional cooperation. Yet seemingly all the Republicans have to do is warn of home energy bill explosions, which invariably succeed in scaring off support for a greener and eventually cheaper means of powering our buildings and improving our quality of life.
105
Coal is obsolete.
Coal is obsolete.
Coal is obsolete.
In a country where power generation is largely based on dirty brown stuff, they laughed when I first said it five years ago. Then they smiled wryly. Now they see the stats, and nod YES.
Coal is obsolete.
Coal is obsolete.
In a country where power generation is largely based on dirty brown stuff, they laughed when I first said it five years ago. Then they smiled wryly. Now they see the stats, and nod YES.
11
Germany deserves a Nobel; you must be joking!
Perhaps you should make stops in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. While there, you can report on the “peace” in those areas created by Germany’s 7 years long campaign of imposed austerity on the continent. Pay no mind to the utter failure, for 7 years, of those policies to meet their professed goal of welcoming back the “confidence fairy” and thus reigniting economic dynamism and competitiveness in the EU periphery. Ignore also the utter destitution of the people that has created the fertile soil that has given rise to all of the far right, bigoted, anti-immigrant, neo-nazi parties in these countries.
I know, I know; these countries have lived far beyond their means since entering the EU; these countries are all corrupt; the people are all lazy oafs living off the wealthy, dutiful north; etc, etc; so they must be brought back in line with reality and the only way to do that is to squeeze. That’s always the official line, but it’s amazing how quickly the veneer of restoring “competitiveness and confidence” through austerity is dropped in favor of the real motive, punishment, when talking with most Northern Europeans on the subject. Quickly, the factual basis of the policy’s failures requires the true intent to come out: they must be made to pay for their excess through classic, pre-enlightenment, medieval, repentance. Only through this Opus Dei style self-flagellation can these countries be forgiven.
Peace Prize to be sure!
Perhaps you should make stops in Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal. While there, you can report on the “peace” in those areas created by Germany’s 7 years long campaign of imposed austerity on the continent. Pay no mind to the utter failure, for 7 years, of those policies to meet their professed goal of welcoming back the “confidence fairy” and thus reigniting economic dynamism and competitiveness in the EU periphery. Ignore also the utter destitution of the people that has created the fertile soil that has given rise to all of the far right, bigoted, anti-immigrant, neo-nazi parties in these countries.
I know, I know; these countries have lived far beyond their means since entering the EU; these countries are all corrupt; the people are all lazy oafs living off the wealthy, dutiful north; etc, etc; so they must be brought back in line with reality and the only way to do that is to squeeze. That’s always the official line, but it’s amazing how quickly the veneer of restoring “competitiveness and confidence” through austerity is dropped in favor of the real motive, punishment, when talking with most Northern Europeans on the subject. Quickly, the factual basis of the policy’s failures requires the true intent to come out: they must be made to pay for their excess through classic, pre-enlightenment, medieval, repentance. Only through this Opus Dei style self-flagellation can these countries be forgiven.
Peace Prize to be sure!
16
Marie - EU periphery countries like Ireland and Spain are now booming.
Germany was kind enough to lend these countries money in their hour of need. They had mismanaged their own economies to such an extent that the markets would only lend at a very high interest rate. We should all be thanking Germany instead of vilifying them. Krugman is only pushing that line because he wants to score political points against the Republicans in the US.
Germany was kind enough to lend these countries money in their hour of need. They had mismanaged their own economies to such an extent that the markets would only lend at a very high interest rate. We should all be thanking Germany instead of vilifying them. Krugman is only pushing that line because he wants to score political points against the Republicans in the US.
10
Interesting that Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal are all very sunny areas. Spain at one time had a very generous Feed-in Tariff like Germany's, but it was too generous, which led to it's demise. Perhaps an arrangement can be created in which utility-scale solar installations can be constructed to sell energy to less sunny areas of Europe, like central and eastern Europe.
Or, imagine if Ukraine adopted a Feed-in Tariff and greatly reduced it's demand for Russian natural gas.
Or, imagine if Ukraine adopted a Feed-in Tariff and greatly reduced it's demand for Russian natural gas.
4
This mess was served by the Wallstreet and their Masters.
Austerity is the cleanup, Germany was put in charge 2009 when the Americans bailed out. So you know where to put the blame.
Have you done anything for damage containment ? Have Goldman and Sachs paid a penny for their 400 Billion bounty they made for cooking the books of greece and than betting against them ?
I think average US-Citizen should pay for the debts of greece, and always remember, that is all in accordance with Paul Krugman.
Austerity is the cleanup, Germany was put in charge 2009 when the Americans bailed out. So you know where to put the blame.
Have you done anything for damage containment ? Have Goldman and Sachs paid a penny for their 400 Billion bounty they made for cooking the books of greece and than betting against them ?
I think average US-Citizen should pay for the debts of greece, and always remember, that is all in accordance with Paul Krugman.
6
At the opposite end of the spectrum, here in the Sunshine State only the state granted monopolies like Florida Power & Light are allowed to sell power.
Net metering, selling your excess solar back, is strictly verboten.
All it cost the monopolists was several million in bribes to a thoroughly corrupt republican legislature.
Net metering, selling your excess solar back, is strictly verboten.
All it cost the monopolists was several million in bribes to a thoroughly corrupt republican legislature.
319
Our first Florida home, vintage 1919, had a funny upright solar water heater on it's flat roof, that worked splendidly, probably still does. Up building the current home, the builder laughed at the thought of any kind of solar installation, said we would be buying into trouble, that it would make it near impossible to get windstorm insurance. Progress Florida style.
30
Gainsville being the exception. The Gainsville Regional Utilities has actually set up a Feed-in Tariff, like the one in Germany. See https://www.gru.com/AboutGRU/Content/SolarFIT.aspx .
9
American reality revealed. Thanks Craig for revealing things that I, an American on the other side of the Atlantic, could not begin to imagine.
Larry
Larry
2
it couldn't happen at a better time, that Germany needs to become a superpower like China. I hope they build themselves up militarily so there is a balance of power outside of USA vs Russia which could have had a better outlook had the bushes saw Russia as a partner.
4
>
Better yet, does Germany, Europe's leading exporter, canvas the ends of the earth in order to sign ill thought-out trade deals, which by experience, thereby empirical evidence, make it beneficial for its OWN manufacturers to pick-up shop and move operations overseas for $1/hr labor. Do they let the other countries dump cheap goods into their markets thereby causing havoc to their workers. I bet NOT (N.B., the operable words here are "ill thought-out"). There is nothing per say wrong with trade deals, unless these deals set up the situation for trading labor rather than goods, as our trade deals do.
Right after WWII something odd happened: Germany co-opted our democratic principles, and we co-opted many of their fascist principles, albeit under more subtle and deceptive appearances.
In other words, if you assess Germany vs. the U.S. as to democratic principles we do not do very well.
So it is of no surprise that they lead us in green power, since they are more geared to their citizenry rather than to their rich. The same cannot be said of the U.S..
Better yet, does Germany, Europe's leading exporter, canvas the ends of the earth in order to sign ill thought-out trade deals, which by experience, thereby empirical evidence, make it beneficial for its OWN manufacturers to pick-up shop and move operations overseas for $1/hr labor. Do they let the other countries dump cheap goods into their markets thereby causing havoc to their workers. I bet NOT (N.B., the operable words here are "ill thought-out"). There is nothing per say wrong with trade deals, unless these deals set up the situation for trading labor rather than goods, as our trade deals do.
Right after WWII something odd happened: Germany co-opted our democratic principles, and we co-opted many of their fascist principles, albeit under more subtle and deceptive appearances.
In other words, if you assess Germany vs. the U.S. as to democratic principles we do not do very well.
So it is of no surprise that they lead us in green power, since they are more geared to their citizenry rather than to their rich. The same cannot be said of the U.S..
31
Actually many German manufacturers have moved from Germany. When I lived there the prevailing thought from the workers was that no one could work as well as the Germans, so they had no worries. This was in response to the East opening up. Guess what? The Poles, Czechs, etc, could work as well as the Germans and cheaper too, so many German companies moved shop. It's not just here where it happens. I have to say however, I would rather buy anything made in Europe or even parts of Asia than Chinese junk any day.
1
The Friedman report does sound great,
But will my long mistrust abate?
Dark memories lower,
Is this superpower
Worthy of our trust, free of hate?
But will my long mistrust abate?
Dark memories lower,
Is this superpower
Worthy of our trust, free of hate?
8
dear mr eisenberg,
hate germany is still an essential motivation of our extreme left youth and this is a good thing. indeed there is a remarkable contradiction here in Germany between the speech of a 'new leading role' in military concerns and the refusal to conceive of germany as 'einwanderungsland'. so the author of the article claims it would be good for the world that Germany encounters Russia in the mediterian sea instead of taking charge of the refugees. Green policy in Germany means both: good energy and anti-militarism.
hate germany is still an essential motivation of our extreme left youth and this is a good thing. indeed there is a remarkable contradiction here in Germany between the speech of a 'new leading role' in military concerns and the refusal to conceive of germany as 'einwanderungsland'. so the author of the article claims it would be good for the world that Germany encounters Russia in the mediterian sea instead of taking charge of the refugees. Green policy in Germany means both: good energy and anti-militarism.
3
Thomas L. Friedman thanks for the report on the eve of the end of World War II in Europe. This is almost the first time if my memory is correct that a New York Times column said something positive about Germany's move to renewables.
What seems to be missing - I need to do a little research - is recognition of any other alternatives than solar and wind. In Sweden and Denmark solar and wind are becoming ever more important seemingly without facing all the blocks placed in their way in the USA, my country.
What is missing in your story as always is any recognition of three additional renewable energy technologies standard in Sweden and Denmark and therefore I would expect to be used in at least parts of Germany.
I dislike having to be so repetitive but since these are never mentioned in the Times except in my comments I am compelled to repeat.
Ground-source geothermal (Heat pump geothermal) GSG
Air-air, air-water heat pump systems becoming more and more important even in relation to GSG
High tech municipal solid waste incineration (MSWI) which heats Swedish cities - Since the Times has a story about US coal burning somebody should examine how many coal plants could be replaced by MSWI.
Just listing, examples have been at blog for a long time. Will see what I can find on German use of these.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
What seems to be missing - I need to do a little research - is recognition of any other alternatives than solar and wind. In Sweden and Denmark solar and wind are becoming ever more important seemingly without facing all the blocks placed in their way in the USA, my country.
What is missing in your story as always is any recognition of three additional renewable energy technologies standard in Sweden and Denmark and therefore I would expect to be used in at least parts of Germany.
I dislike having to be so repetitive but since these are never mentioned in the Times except in my comments I am compelled to repeat.
Ground-source geothermal (Heat pump geothermal) GSG
Air-air, air-water heat pump systems becoming more and more important even in relation to GSG
High tech municipal solid waste incineration (MSWI) which heats Swedish cities - Since the Times has a story about US coal burning somebody should examine how many coal plants could be replaced by MSWI.
Just listing, examples have been at blog for a long time. Will see what I can find on German use of these.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
55
So their initial outlay serves to create demand and drive down costs to make green options mainstream and affordable? What wise use of investments. So their austerity is not so extreme. Big difference in political culture ---they try to solve problems VS the US which lets our infrastructure rot and climate change be downplayed.
A surtax? Big bad govt? We’re an anti govt itself culture and with influential people denying climate change itself.
Achievements of other countries should be publicized here, to give voters positive role models for what they could demand of lawmakers they elect, in return for taxes.
Main question--- do the Germans have the equivalent of our Koch Brothers engineering their politics by paying for the world’s most expensive elections? And lobbyists writing laws, in states, vetting candidates, and driving party platforms?
There’s no denying what really separates us from other progressive countries. With their public funds for elections and multi parties including green parties, other nations form coalitions so the Greens can have input. We outspend Germany 32 to 1 on elections. Our 2 parties are tethered to the very donors who are most anti Green.
Yet we read little about this difference on the op ed page.
Tom, instead of talking about EU balance of power plays, why not explain how how they better achieve democracy, while the US throws its weight around the world, and denies rights and decent livings to millions of its own people.
A surtax? Big bad govt? We’re an anti govt itself culture and with influential people denying climate change itself.
Achievements of other countries should be publicized here, to give voters positive role models for what they could demand of lawmakers they elect, in return for taxes.
Main question--- do the Germans have the equivalent of our Koch Brothers engineering their politics by paying for the world’s most expensive elections? And lobbyists writing laws, in states, vetting candidates, and driving party platforms?
There’s no denying what really separates us from other progressive countries. With their public funds for elections and multi parties including green parties, other nations form coalitions so the Greens can have input. We outspend Germany 32 to 1 on elections. Our 2 parties are tethered to the very donors who are most anti Green.
Yet we read little about this difference on the op ed page.
Tom, instead of talking about EU balance of power plays, why not explain how how they better achieve democracy, while the US throws its weight around the world, and denies rights and decent livings to millions of its own people.
240
"Main question--- do the Germans have the equivalent of our Koch Brothers ...?"
We have our super-rich clans, as every country has. What we don't have are the mineral rights of the United States. The United States has made it too easy to privatize the gains from extracting oil, gas, coal and more from the ground. There was a time when the US was young when these laws may have made sense, as an incentive to invest or "go west". But there is no question that a mature society does better with strictly regulated mineral rights, as in Norway, where much of the gains from oil extraction flows into pension funds for the citizens, rich and poor.
We also don't suffer from the Rupert Murdoch plague. Murdoch tried to set his foot into German TV, but we have rules in place that avoid to concentrate too much media power in one hand.
We have our super-rich clans, as every country has. What we don't have are the mineral rights of the United States. The United States has made it too easy to privatize the gains from extracting oil, gas, coal and more from the ground. There was a time when the US was young when these laws may have made sense, as an incentive to invest or "go west". But there is no question that a mature society does better with strictly regulated mineral rights, as in Norway, where much of the gains from oil extraction flows into pension funds for the citizens, rich and poor.
We also don't suffer from the Rupert Murdoch plague. Murdoch tried to set his foot into German TV, but we have rules in place that avoid to concentrate too much media power in one hand.
67
@ Meredith as an American who has lived in Sweden for 20 years and reads the literature in two areas of intense interest in Europe and the United States I agree with you that from your perspective and mine, there is all too little careful presentation of comparisons of various practices common in Europe with practice in the US.
So, for example, it is "nice" of Friedman to tell NYT readers about German Energiewende but it would be a lot nicer if the Times would present serious articles looking carefully at the approach in let's say an area in Europe with a similar size area in the US. Since I have lived in 4 of the New England states I see how beneficial it might be to see a Times series with data on changes in fossil fuel use in New England compared with the Nordic countries (leave out Iceland since its high temperature geothermal is unique.
So thanks for your comment.
Larry
blog at my main comment just above yours.
So, for example, it is "nice" of Friedman to tell NYT readers about German Energiewende but it would be a lot nicer if the Times would present serious articles looking carefully at the approach in let's say an area in Europe with a similar size area in the US. Since I have lived in 4 of the New England states I see how beneficial it might be to see a Times series with data on changes in fossil fuel use in New England compared with the Nordic countries (leave out Iceland since its high temperature geothermal is unique.
So thanks for your comment.
Larry
blog at my main comment just above yours.
6
To your main question: No, there are no "Koch Brothers" in Germany. (Being 'bi-coastal' I am writing from Berlin this month).
Climate change is seen as a scientific engineering problem and as a common responsibility for our society - not a political game. ALL parties support 'Energiewende' in general, though ideas on solutions may differ.
Politics drive industry in this case, not vice versa (some of the reasons: public election financing > no 'Citizens United' > 'free' politicians). Most industry here sees the advantage to be on the forefront of innovation (export statistics agree) instead of clinging to 19th/20th century technology.
Finally, 'Energiewende' is implemented countrywide as a long-term strategy, not abandoned during setbacks and problems. In the US though, state-by-state and election-by-election legislation causes terrible roadblocks (some of them intentional - see fines for solar owners in some Republican SW states) for industries that need a long-term and stable investment climate.
So apart from the moral obligation not to run our civilization into the ground, the political power of fossil fuel corporations make the US miss out on developing and profiting from innovative technology - the very essence of US success in the 20th century (Let's hope they read this column).
Climate change is seen as a scientific engineering problem and as a common responsibility for our society - not a political game. ALL parties support 'Energiewende' in general, though ideas on solutions may differ.
Politics drive industry in this case, not vice versa (some of the reasons: public election financing > no 'Citizens United' > 'free' politicians). Most industry here sees the advantage to be on the forefront of innovation (export statistics agree) instead of clinging to 19th/20th century technology.
Finally, 'Energiewende' is implemented countrywide as a long-term strategy, not abandoned during setbacks and problems. In the US though, state-by-state and election-by-election legislation causes terrible roadblocks (some of them intentional - see fines for solar owners in some Republican SW states) for industries that need a long-term and stable investment climate.
So apart from the moral obligation not to run our civilization into the ground, the political power of fossil fuel corporations make the US miss out on developing and profiting from innovative technology - the very essence of US success in the 20th century (Let's hope they read this column).
52
Excellent article, Mr. Friedman. Let us not forget that a large part of the technological innovation on solar cells came from US labs and companies, beginning with Bell Labs in the 1950's. So, somewhat simplistically, the combination of US invention, German energy policy, and Chinese investment in production technologies, has been hugely beneficial for the whole world! Of course, other countries have contributed as well. Greece and Italy have made large investments in solar power and Japan has been a key player all along. As is now expected, solar energy will play an increasingly important part in the energy supply of industrialized countries. It will play an even bigger role in rural regions in the developing world.
19