"Pull" US units back into fighting? Please, this is a conscious decision to fight and kill, not some action the US had no control over. It is not a passive decision.
Does this article mean to say that President Obama is lying ("sending Special Operations troops directly into harm’s way under the guise of 'training and advising'”) to the American people about our military activities in Afghanistan?
If so, wouldn't "Obama conducting secret war in Afghanistan" be a more accurate headline?
If so, wouldn't "Obama conducting secret war in Afghanistan" be a more accurate headline?
Yeah, "pulled us" right back in. Nothing we can do about that, I suppose...
What are we still doing there?
The lesson that Afghanistan swallows up foreign occupiers and ultimately defeats them is true enough. The other lesson the Obama Administration has apparently learned is that ISIS quickly defeated US trained forces in Iraq. Ultimately the US will have to acknowledge they cannot hold back the Taliban forever. Especially since the US is seen as a unwelcome occupier.
Not that surprising,considering that Obama is a major govt worshipper and looks to govt power to solve all problems,foreign and domestic.
Google deserves some credit here. Years ago, some soldier would assure us (as one has done in these comments) that the US military really isn't "there" (wherever "there" is at the moment), and we'd just accept that as true. Now, though, we can fire up Google Earth and see for ourselves. A soldier assures us that the US' Bagram air base is a mere "shell." According to Google Earth, however, which claims its Bagram photos are from this year (2015), Bagram is more than two miles long and has thousands of buildings. Many US military planes -- large, small and in-between -- are visible on the runways, far more than I've ever seen before (and I've been checking Bagram periodically for more than a decade now).
In other words, what this article reports is amply supported by what one can see for oneself, despite what military spokesmen may claim. Don't take anyone's word for this, though. Fire up Google Earth, type in "Bagram, Afghanistan" and see for yourself. Does that look like any empty "shell," or does it look like a bustling US air base more than two miles in length with thousands of buildings and many US military planes of all sizes on the runway? Decide for yourself.
In other words, what this article reports is amply supported by what one can see for oneself, despite what military spokesmen may claim. Don't take anyone's word for this, though. Fire up Google Earth, type in "Bagram, Afghanistan" and see for yourself. Does that look like any empty "shell," or does it look like a bustling US air base more than two miles in length with thousands of buildings and many US military planes of all sizes on the runway? Decide for yourself.
The Obama Administration and the hawks in it and the Congress have not learned the lessons of the last two centuries in that particular area of Asia. The "Great Game" of Tsarist Russia and Great Britain in the 19th Centry ended in the creation of the "so-called" country of Afghanistan which is merely a collection of disparate tribes who cannot stand each other. The Soviet experience in Afghanistan in the 1980's led, in part, to the fall of the Soviet Union in the 1990's AND the crushing defeat of the Soviet Army in Afghanistan. We are now treading down that horrid path. When will we ever learn? Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan are only the latest in America's desire to be the second Great Britain and that 19th Century Empire. The American Empire concept will destroy us as it has destroyed or reduced all other western countries from Spain to Britain. The philosophy of Wilsonian Calvinistic moralism has never worked and will never work. We didn't make Mexico a democracy and everywhere we have gone on the mainland of Asia with troops now hates us. What have we gained? Loss of treasure and loss of precious lives, both men and women. Those who come back are physically or mentally broken and we are suffering at home because of that.
Having been in Afghanistan numerous times and having spoken with both Afghans and Coalition Forces, I applaud Gen Campbell for all that he does to help the Afghans as they work to maintain security. Truth is: Security creates the stability that then generates the economy, which in turn leads to a country able to stand on its own, and that is what we are trying to achieve, is it not?
At the height of the American occupation of Afghanistan, the number of young girls attending school rose to historic levels. There are now women active in civil society and government. There are even women in Parliament, where there is now a quota for women (I believe).
To suggest that Afghanistan is a primitive, tribal society that will never change, is misguided. The situation is far more complex. Many young people want change. But the Taliban are resisting; they are the force of reaction.
I believe the U.S. still has a role to play. We can still be a force for good, and we have a legitimate self-interest, that is, we do not want another 9/11.
The U.S. is part of a consortium of countries that are supplying aid to the new government in the hope of building infrastructure and civil institutions. The Chinese are investing heavily in extractive industries.
Calls for us to abandon Afghanistan are careless of the facts and unrealistic. Calls for us carefully to calibrate our involvement are exactly right.
To suggest that Afghanistan is a primitive, tribal society that will never change, is misguided. The situation is far more complex. Many young people want change. But the Taliban are resisting; they are the force of reaction.
I believe the U.S. still has a role to play. We can still be a force for good, and we have a legitimate self-interest, that is, we do not want another 9/11.
The U.S. is part of a consortium of countries that are supplying aid to the new government in the hope of building infrastructure and civil institutions. The Chinese are investing heavily in extractive industries.
Calls for us to abandon Afghanistan are careless of the facts and unrealistic. Calls for us carefully to calibrate our involvement are exactly right.
2
US and NATO's military efforts to stabilize Afghanistan failed since the country's army is incapable and unwilling to take over the fight against Taliban. The US taxpayers are those who foot the bills of billions and we see no light at the end of the tunnel nor true purpose in supporting a failed, corrupt and incompetent army and government.
The word "quagmire" comes to mind.
Why not get out? Are we in love with this war?
If Afghans lack the will and organization to take out the Taliban and other fanatics, we cannot do it for them.
The next thing would be to get our collaborators out and settled in other Muslim lands, before boarding our helicopters.
If Afghans lack the will and organization to take out the Taliban and other fanatics, we cannot do it for them.
The next thing would be to get our collaborators out and settled in other Muslim lands, before boarding our helicopters.
Gen. Campbell apparently understands what President Obama does not: The Taliban are our enemy, not people we should be negotiating with. These are the people who cooperated with al Qaeda in the 9-11 attacks, who made it a crime for women to appear unveiled in public or seek an education, who turned the Kabul soccer stadium into an execution factory. They must be defeated, not accommodated.
This is an interesting time in the history of war. Since the mid 1900's the mightiest countries have struggled up in deadly conflicts against enemies using guerrilla warfare tactics. This style of fighting was advocated by Mao Tse-tung (Mao Zedong) and very successful in Viet Nam. It is the basic strategy used in current Middle Eastern conflicts. The basic concept is patient and minimalist. Eat away at large masses of troops and equipment with quick, small, effective attacks.
Now, a minority attorney from Chicago is chipping away at Chairman Mao's successful military strategy. Technology has removed the guerillas' military targets from the battlefields. The roving bands of fighters are under a microscope, being chased by relatively silent, inexpensive, unmanned aircraft. Yes, there is collateral damage with drones, but no more My Lai or Blackwater incidents with soldiers gunning down civilians. We have ended the Viet Nam era (Gen. Westmoreland) notion of troops as inventory to be used up in battles.
Now, a minority attorney from Chicago is chipping away at Chairman Mao's successful military strategy. Technology has removed the guerillas' military targets from the battlefields. The roving bands of fighters are under a microscope, being chased by relatively silent, inexpensive, unmanned aircraft. Yes, there is collateral damage with drones, but no more My Lai or Blackwater incidents with soldiers gunning down civilians. We have ended the Viet Nam era (Gen. Westmoreland) notion of troops as inventory to be used up in battles.
Sometimes complex facts present simple issues. One: after we've spent thousands of U.S. lives, and billions of dollars, in a war, no president wants to be branded as having lost that war, thrown away the fruits of "victory," or abandoned our erstwhile ally, client state, or whatever you want to call it. Two: when the next major terrorist attack occurs in this country (and I do think it's "when," not "if," but that's really beside the point), no president wants to be saddled with the blame for not preventing it. You want a record you can point to, so you can say, "Look at all I've done to try to prevent this from occurring." Three: I'd like to think that the president and his team really do want to protect this country. And once you're sitting behind that desk in the Oval Office, I suspect that the world becomes a lot more complicated than when you're sitting at a computer, leaving comments on a message board. It's easy to be an altruist, when you're not charged with the responsibilities that come with being the President of the United States.
Obama lost the "right war" in Afghanistan.
As a former grunt, I may not be the most knowledgeable about current force requirements, but you needed "forward observers" even in my day to call in strikes. Eyes on was a necessity. Now they paint targets with lasers, but second guessing the need for hands-on US forces to apply munitions effectively ought to be in the article somewhere. After all, if even I am aware of this....
2
I don't see the point in distinguishing between Al Queda and Taliban. They're both Sunni terrorist groups who want to kill American troops and violently subjugate civilian populations. If we're going to have US forces in Afghanistan, might as well have them kill them both groups.
3
Why is it that our leadership continues to ignore history? Afghanistan is Vietnam all over again. Just as the French discovered - that Vietnam was unwinnable - so the Russians discovered about Afghanistan. But that didn't deter us, just as it didn't deter us in Vietnam. The actual coffin count may be different, but those coming home maimed with life long scars and disabilities are going to be on par if we keep this up, not to mention the enormous amount of taxpayer money literally wasted on munitions and strikes and all these useless armed engagements. The U.S. military/industrial machine continues to grind on costing the taxpayers billions and all for what? Ego? It's certainly not defense. It's downright unethical.
2
So who do I vote for to end the wars in the dusty countries? ((I was naive to believe it would be Obama.)
1
If the Islamic state there is selfishness. Their beliefs are conservative and wanton harm to the world. It is appropriate, then, to get rid of them is gone. By many bombs.
The US has caught hold of the tiger's(Taliban's) tail. It cannot loosen the grip nor can it kill the tiger. The Afghan Taliban has its godfather in Pakistan, the epicentre of all terror activities. How is Taliban able to get its hardware ? This every one knows. It is coming from Pakistan. Pakistan keeps the supply lines live from Drug money and US aid. Even the drugs income comes from the US, it being the largest consumer. If Afghanistan has to survive and prosper, the US has to impose sanctions on Pakistan, cut all aid and isolate it.
1
So the USA has again spent billions of dollars to "train" another army that can't even tie its own shoes? Not very good at learning from past mistakes, are we?
1
How dare the Taliban not bow to the US decree that the war is over. Here are the choices - stop fighting and the Taliban are back in control within 12 months or keep fighting to prop up the puppets. We won't pull out under this administration because that would be to admit defeat and, even worse, having to admit to a mistake. So we'll be there a while - but there is no way we can "win." How much did we spend, and what did we get? This has been 12 years of folly.
How is Afghanistan different from Iraq or Vietnam, where the US spent years of blood and treasure trying in vain to establish friendly regimes? We can't buy political will or fighting spirit. Without them our puppet governments collapse.. We should limit our military adventures to backing friendly states willing to fight, like Israel and South Korea, protecting US trade (see Barbary Pirates and Straits of Hormuz), and deterring aggression against the American homeland (Cuban Missile Crisis, the Cold War, World War II). When genuine democratic revolutions threaten tyrants, they deserve our covert aid and best wishes. Nation-building from scratch, however, is an illusion we can't afford and should renounce. When enemies are at war, as in Syria, it's a fight in which we have no dog.
So this is what the "Mission Accomplished" theatrical display looks like in Afghanistan.
Are we going to see Obama making a landing on an aircraft carrier as well?
Russia, France, Great Britain and many more have only succeeded in one goal in Afghanistan over the centuries - in increasing the Opium production.
But apart from that they have all learned one important lesson: You cannot bring peace to this land, not even by force.
A lesson which the US will learn too, in a few years and after many deaths.
Accept Afghan local culture and let them sort out their issues alone.
Are we going to see Obama making a landing on an aircraft carrier as well?
Russia, France, Great Britain and many more have only succeeded in one goal in Afghanistan over the centuries - in increasing the Opium production.
But apart from that they have all learned one important lesson: You cannot bring peace to this land, not even by force.
A lesson which the US will learn too, in a few years and after many deaths.
Accept Afghan local culture and let them sort out their issues alone.
1
Surprise!!!
“The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop.”
~ VICTOR HUGO in Les Misérables
“The wise man is he who knows when and how to stop.”
~ VICTOR HUGO in Les Misérables
1
Do US leaders ever learn? Today marks the 40th anniversary of US defeat in Vietnam and the ignominious fleeing of US forces from Saigon. That war that killed more than 58,000 US forces and three million Vietnamese should have taught us that unnecessary foreign adventures end in tragedy. Yet with the end of the Cold War, Bush father and son got America involved in the first Persian Gulf War and then in the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, which is still continuing.
Former President Karzai refused to agree to the presence of US troops in Afghanistan because he knew that their continued presence would act as a bait to the Taliban and others who did not wish to see their country occupied by foreign forces. Yet Mr. Ghani, the new Afghan president, signed the Bilateral Security Agreement on the first day of his dubious presidency. Continued presence of 13,500 US troops in five military bases means that US occupation of Afghanistan continues in all but name.
The original idea of invading Afghanistan long before 9/11 was to provide a corridor for access to Central Asian oil and gas. That has not been achieved despite spending billions on the war. Now Congressional hawks are trying to prevent a nuclear deal with Iran forcing America into a more disastrous war. Unless people wake up and demand an end to the Military Industrial Complex the mayhem will continue. A few will get richer but the majority of Americans will be much poorer.
Former President Karzai refused to agree to the presence of US troops in Afghanistan because he knew that their continued presence would act as a bait to the Taliban and others who did not wish to see their country occupied by foreign forces. Yet Mr. Ghani, the new Afghan president, signed the Bilateral Security Agreement on the first day of his dubious presidency. Continued presence of 13,500 US troops in five military bases means that US occupation of Afghanistan continues in all but name.
The original idea of invading Afghanistan long before 9/11 was to provide a corridor for access to Central Asian oil and gas. That has not been achieved despite spending billions on the war. Now Congressional hawks are trying to prevent a nuclear deal with Iran forcing America into a more disastrous war. Unless people wake up and demand an end to the Military Industrial Complex the mayhem will continue. A few will get richer but the majority of Americans will be much poorer.
2
And if our battle with the Islamic State, Isis, ever demands 'boots on the ground', like we can't seem to shed against the Taliban, for a clear and disturbing report on who Isis is, how they got to be the force they are, and they're seemingly perverse obsession with killing, watch Frontline's October 28, 2014 expose, free as all Frontline programs are, and you'll be alarmed. Without our drone strikes and an active air campaign against Isis, if we do engage 'boots on the ground', we will suffer scores of casualties. The Frontline piece is disturbing.
History teaches us that "winning" in Afghanistan was always a long shot.
But in 2003 when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, the war was lost. Every US life that has been lost and that will be lost is a life thrown away on the trash heap of history. The same is true for Iraq and Vietnam, where our own stupid bungling has only made the world a worse place to live.
But in 2003 when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, the war was lost. Every US life that has been lost and that will be lost is a life thrown away on the trash heap of history. The same is true for Iraq and Vietnam, where our own stupid bungling has only made the world a worse place to live.
1
Some truth to your post... if you are in you better finish what you started or you get what you see today. I feel we were justified to go after UBL and the forces that supported him in AE; however, when we settled in we became overcome by ROE set by politicians who know nothing of WAR! It (war) just becomes a political football and the only ones that suffer are the soldiers/marines/sailors/airmen and obviously the taxpayer.
I have been wondering why I hadn't heard much about Afghanistan in the past few weeks. Now I know. More lies, word parsing, and cover ups.
Can't seem to ever learn not to go where we are not wanted.
Can't seem to ever learn not to go where we are not wanted.
4
There is a segment of US officialdom and the military who want to get back into a full blown war role in Afghanistan and presumably they are the people feeding this stuff to the NYT who have run a number of stories on this theme.
It is wrong to make decisions on Afghanistan out of fatalism. Afghans (and many others) just fight their biggest threat, and even make alliances with those whom they consider a lesser threat. For years this biggest threat has been the US, it had been the initial success that doomed the campaign of the NATO. But the Afghans never wanted the Taliban back.
This attitude, either line up with us, or with the enemy, is just wrong, and still this attitude defines the US-politics. The US must keep being engaged, they should take their satisfaction in bringing down the Talibans. But to succeed they must resist one particularity, trying to win this war.
This attitude, either line up with us, or with the enemy, is just wrong, and still this attitude defines the US-politics. The US must keep being engaged, they should take their satisfaction in bringing down the Talibans. But to succeed they must resist one particularity, trying to win this war.
Why no mention of Security Firm employees in Afghanistan that allegedly total approximately 250,000. Security Firms which the US Government granted immunity from prosecution. Or have they all left?
1
Definitely haven't seen more than about 50 of them. So I'm gonna go with they left.
1
Gen. Campbell will rotate out of Afghanistan just like I did. Then what? Are we to continue this process for eternity? What is the end game here? I always felt the Taliban were happy to see us there because we required so much support....food, surf and turf on Thursdays, ice cream, Connex loads of stuff and fuel and all of it would get through safely as long as the Taliban got their cut. Rumor had it that it was $4000 per container for safe passage from Jbad. Of course the Afghan oligarchs love us being there because it is just business. They will eventually retire to Hope Ranch and put their kids in Ivy League schools. The young guys can use the conflict as an excuse to claim asylum in Germany. The only ones neglected are the females. Why not just get out and give all the females but none of the males a green card. Then they would be respected for once. Otherwise in that misogynist culture nothing is going to change.
8
as,
I wish I could say you're just cynical, but I've heard similar comments from my son and the neighbors' son, both of whom served there. I have no desire to send them back - nor another other parent's child.
Well over a decade ago i suggested we buy up all the poppy fields at a rate above what the traffickers were paying, if only to keep the farmers happy and raise the cost of doing business for the traffickers. There are more poppy fields now that in 2001 but nobody ever writes about it - or perhaps more accurately - in never makes it into publications.
Soldiers may inspect hundreds of dirt huts of subsistence tenant farmers. But they're told to ignore the palatial mansions of people who obviously aren't hurting for money.
A lot more counter-intuitive thinking is needed from guys like General Campbell.
I wish I could say you're just cynical, but I've heard similar comments from my son and the neighbors' son, both of whom served there. I have no desire to send them back - nor another other parent's child.
Well over a decade ago i suggested we buy up all the poppy fields at a rate above what the traffickers were paying, if only to keep the farmers happy and raise the cost of doing business for the traffickers. There are more poppy fields now that in 2001 but nobody ever writes about it - or perhaps more accurately - in never makes it into publications.
Soldiers may inspect hundreds of dirt huts of subsistence tenant farmers. But they're told to ignore the palatial mansions of people who obviously aren't hurting for money.
A lot more counter-intuitive thinking is needed from guys like General Campbell.
I fought both in Afghanistan and Iraq. Unlike most reader comments, the Afghanistan insurgents are not a very powerful and large force. Given the ability to fight unrestricted as in WWII, they can be easily defeated as they are not supported by the local population as they retain their power by force and intimidation.
However Obama has chosen to fight this war with self imposed restrictions and rules on the use of force that led to our defeat in Viet Nam. As such, we will never win. Obama is now just fighting to avoid a debacle that is a political fiasco at home. His interest is self-serving politically. If he is truly acting in the interest of the US, he should either pull out completely or fight without restriction.
However Obama has chosen to fight this war with self imposed restrictions and rules on the use of force that led to our defeat in Viet Nam. As such, we will never win. Obama is now just fighting to avoid a debacle that is a political fiasco at home. His interest is self-serving politically. If he is truly acting in the interest of the US, he should either pull out completely or fight without restriction.
6
As a Vietnam vet I can say buddy you never learned the lesson of Vietnam. It was this; the biggest military in the world can't defeat a determined national group that wants its freedom and independence and is willing to lose a million;people to get it. Don't join the Vietnam revisionists who want to claim we could have won if only....That's just what the Germans said after WWI and look where it lead them. Admiral Mahan's famous injunction against a land war in Asia was ignored in Vietnam. It applies to the Middle East. We were lied to in Vietnam and again Iraq and Afghanistan. Winning means what? When you're dead, you're dead. Clint Eastwood said it best in UNFORGIVEN: "when you kill a man you take away all he's got, all he is now and all he could ever be."
2
This is EXACTLY what US military and intelligence assets remaining in Afghanistan should be doing, regarding the described "who, what, when, where and why" from this article. The mission is clear. A good man is put in charge of good men. He has operational flexibility and works together with the Afghan government. Things get done. It doesn't have to be front page news, getting things done in a sovereign area of the world which has known war(s) since the late 70s. Yesterday Americans can read that the Taliban has people surrounding a city in northeastern Afghanistan, currently displacing 2000 families from their homes. Those aren't MY families or neighbors, of course. But I still care about them. Beyond a response that breaks the will of the Taliban from this city and area, and wherever they mass on Afghan soil, the greater question is where did these Taliban come from, where did they stage and train as a collective force, who is financially supporting them, and on what turf?
General Campbell has the right idea, wish had the same strategy in Iraq.
1
Is General Campbell running his own war!!??? What happened to the principles of civilian control and public oversights over our foreign policies?
1
Civilian control of military is the worst thing to befall the military. Civilian oversight yes, but actually control, like Johnson and Obama selecting bombing target and force movement, is just nonsense. Neither man have military experience nor understand the military's capability: what it do well and what it cannot do. There is a reason why federal reserve is not beholden to the president, you wouldn't want the politicians to set economic policies. Even the great FDR almost crashed the U.S. economy were it not for his treasure secretary refusing to carry out his order of pump-and-dump the stock market to get more people to support his New Deal.
1
The US Military loves it in that its troops get solid training simply by trying to stay alive; the US Embassy in Kabul loves it by feeling important; the US private contractors doing the actual work love it in that double pay and profit is allowed because of hardship and danger definitions; US airlines love it because of flying everybody back and forth between Dubai and the US. All in all, this whole Afghanistan war is a Disney World entertainment for grown-ups. Only problem obviously is the 2000 Americans killed there and the 20,000 badly injured - at least for the immediate relatives. All others can handle it and the show must go on.
3
Meanwhile our cities crumble. Million dollar airstrikes against mud huts and clapped out Toyota pickup trucks,.\
Send all the troops and money home today.
Send all the troops and money home today.
3
The French economist Say's law of supply creates its own demand is quite applicable to US military power. The costliest war machine in the world (supply side) creates enemies, threats and wars (demand side).
Since WWII, every president has made use of the military, particularly in third world countries. Iraq and Afghanistan are two unfinished wars because the enemy -- muslim terrorism-- is elusive and impossible to be defeated in the battlefield.
Like the mythological bird phoenix, muslim terrorism is cyclically regenerated or reborn. Yesterday, Al Qaeda and Taliban, today the Islamic State, tomorrow another jihadist group.
Since WWII, every president has made use of the military, particularly in third world countries. Iraq and Afghanistan are two unfinished wars because the enemy -- muslim terrorism-- is elusive and impossible to be defeated in the battlefield.
Like the mythological bird phoenix, muslim terrorism is cyclically regenerated or reborn. Yesterday, Al Qaeda and Taliban, today the Islamic State, tomorrow another jihadist group.
2
Iraq was unbelievable stupidity by those who are routinely stupid, but killing Taliban and Al Quaeda? I won't cry. Thanks General Campbell.
In this exceptional country of ours we spend countless resources in Afghanistan and near zero in Baltimore. The result is failure in both places. Perhaps Afghanistan is a hopeless cause but putting back Baltimore together would give us a shining moment. Folks there need prospects: jobs, education, housing , medical care. The time is now to turn from trying to make the world a better place to making Baltimore a better place. Soon, no doubt, there will be a March from Baltimore to Washington calling for a better life for our troubled inner city youth, mainly Black. Hopefully we can stop droning folks in the Middle East and provide jobs for needy people in this country.
3
We are harming Afghanistan but also harming ourselves economically, strategically and morally by waging this forever war. We must stop but evidently we will not stop. I could not be more saddened by President Obama in this matter.
1
"our struggles against the Al-Qaida/Taliban…"
I remember very well the first few weeks and months after 9/11, when our government, and our news media, took great pains to distinguish between al Qaida, on the one hand, and the Taliban, on the other. The Taliban were bad only because they refused to turn over the al Qaida types to us, but we vowed to leave as soon as we'd rooted out al Qaida. It had been only a few months since we'd transferred $30 million to the Taliban in support of their drug eradication efforts. (Despite our subsequent effort to paint the Taliban as a bunch of druggies, they practically wiped out poppy production in the one and only crop year when they controlled it -- 2001. Don't take my word for it: look it up on the Internet.)
But once we got rid of al Qaida (or at least persuaded ourselves that we had), the Taliban wanted to re-establish their control of Afghanistan (what a surprise, eh? Who'd have guessed?), and so our government and news media promptly erased that al Qaida/Taliban distinction and we've been fighting them ever since.
It's been nearly 14 years now -- amazing. I always expected we'd be there much longer than our government told us (remember after 9/11? The troops will be home by Christmas -- in every war, they're always going to be home by Christmas.) But in my wildest dreams I never expected we'd still be there 14 years later. But there we are, and I'll no longer venture a guess when -- or even if -- we'll leave.
I remember very well the first few weeks and months after 9/11, when our government, and our news media, took great pains to distinguish between al Qaida, on the one hand, and the Taliban, on the other. The Taliban were bad only because they refused to turn over the al Qaida types to us, but we vowed to leave as soon as we'd rooted out al Qaida. It had been only a few months since we'd transferred $30 million to the Taliban in support of their drug eradication efforts. (Despite our subsequent effort to paint the Taliban as a bunch of druggies, they practically wiped out poppy production in the one and only crop year when they controlled it -- 2001. Don't take my word for it: look it up on the Internet.)
But once we got rid of al Qaida (or at least persuaded ourselves that we had), the Taliban wanted to re-establish their control of Afghanistan (what a surprise, eh? Who'd have guessed?), and so our government and news media promptly erased that al Qaida/Taliban distinction and we've been fighting them ever since.
It's been nearly 14 years now -- amazing. I always expected we'd be there much longer than our government told us (remember after 9/11? The troops will be home by Christmas -- in every war, they're always going to be home by Christmas.) But in my wildest dreams I never expected we'd still be there 14 years later. But there we are, and I'll no longer venture a guess when -- or even if -- we'll leave.
8
Except for one little fact. The Taliban took over the poppy trade and get $4 billion annually from it. That buys a lot of weapons. We could easily have ended this war years ago by legalizing opium, buying the Afghan crop, making morphine out of it and giving it to poor countries where its medical facilities are in short supply. Follow the money.
1
If we air drop the U.S bills instead of bombs, what would happen?
We will save a lot of money. We will make friends instead of making enemies. We will reduce global warming.
We will save a lot of money. We will make friends instead of making enemies. We will reduce global warming.
3
Forever War. Very profitable for a few corporations. President Obama has totally committed to it, but unclear why, perhaps incredible naivete?
6
Let's be clear. Afghanistan was deemed to have little or no strategic value prior to the unfortunate coincidence of Osama taking refuge there. In fact, it's public record that the CIA cut the Taliban some very large checks for supposedly reducing opium production (whereas now we are paying Afghanis both to produce and not to produce - similar to US ag policy here at home.) What we have now is an ongoing, trillion dollar+ effort to prevent another photograph of US personnel leaving an embassy or a base under fire by a guerrilla army that -- once again - has outlasted our political will (and strategic rationale) to fight another endless unwinnable war.
So Obama is doing the politically expedient thing - minimizing costs as much as possible without a total defeat - and kicking the can down the road. The fact that the US will inevitably leave this country in the next 5-15 years, and the Taliban will almost certainly re-take most or all of the country -- is moot. The point is to not "lose" another war on the watch of President X, Y, or Z. What's hideous is that thousands of Americans have lost their lives - and tens of thousands have PTSD -- and taxpayers have been fleeced to the tune of a trillion dollar plus -- for another bright, shining, lie. And guess what, Obama campaigned on the theme of a surge in Afghanistan - which was deemed the "good" war. It was not a good war, and it never will be.
So Obama is doing the politically expedient thing - minimizing costs as much as possible without a total defeat - and kicking the can down the road. The fact that the US will inevitably leave this country in the next 5-15 years, and the Taliban will almost certainly re-take most or all of the country -- is moot. The point is to not "lose" another war on the watch of President X, Y, or Z. What's hideous is that thousands of Americans have lost their lives - and tens of thousands have PTSD -- and taxpayers have been fleeced to the tune of a trillion dollar plus -- for another bright, shining, lie. And guess what, Obama campaigned on the theme of a surge in Afghanistan - which was deemed the "good" war. It was not a good war, and it never will be.
4
Mr. Obama promised to be a peacemaker rather than another proponent of perpetual war of opportunity, but it seems that the profits and demands of the military industrial complex now drive and control our true foreign policy.
7
The New York Times
Congress, Don’t Be Fooled; Obama Still Believes in Unlimited War
By Bruce Ackerman
February 11, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/opinion/obama-still-believes-in-unlimi...
End Perpetual War Now!
Congress, Don’t Be Fooled; Obama Still Believes in Unlimited War
By Bruce Ackerman
February 11, 2015
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/12/opinion/obama-still-believes-in-unlimi...
End Perpetual War Now!
7
When has military training by U.S. forces of host/occupied countries ever been successful? I cannot think of one instance since WWII.
6
The Philippines is a great example, esp. again the Moro Liberation Front. Colombia against FARC is another success. There are others.
3
They learn to turn the guns on us real well, otherwise not so successful. These "wars" are really just revenue generators for the 1%. Send Cheney over to smell the flowers and be hailed as a liberator.
1
And these are just the military actions we are told about. If this is even 10% of the real number, I'll be impressed.
2
Who would have thought!!! Neither the Democrats or Republicans deserve your trust. For our next leader the Republican choices are --- well there is no choice. And the Democrat choice -- oh yes the one that will take and change any position to get elected. Are you really willing to vote for any of these choices. Obama keeps the wars going and is try to sale TPP. Amazing. How did we end up here and do we have a responsible media? I think not. Come on NYT get with it.
4
You ended up here by voting for traitors and money-changers.
The US continues to be involved in a tribal war zone in which there is no military solution and never will be. Afghanistan will never be a country as the "western mind" conceives of a State. It will exist as a loose grouping of many factions-all finding their own mode of existence, as it has for centuries. It is troublesome to think there seems to be no announced or anticipated end to US military presence in Afghanistan. It must end sometime and whether now or 10 years from now, the result will be the same. So called Afghan national military forces are just a product of the Pentagons mentality. They may exist on paper but what the American presence in Afghanistan has tried to do from the beginning is to put a round peg in a square hole. Military persons will always try to think in terms of military solution. Since there will not be a military solution, it is time to introduce new thinking into the Afghan mess as soon as possible. Remove all American troops, let them sort out their tribal differences. Let them continue with their major cash crop-opium. Nothing has really changed in Afghanistan since Russia spent 10 years and thousands of lives learning about the real Afghanistan. For the US there is no win-now or never. Since "winning" has never been defined, get out now.
7
I don't think it's correct to say that you can't put a round peg into a square hole. Sometimes, if you jam hard enough, you can make it fit, albeit imperfectly. Look, for example, at India and Indonesia, two countries composed of many different ethnic, linguistic, and religious groups with even less shared history than the groups that make up Afghanistan. Neither one existed in its present form before the era of European colonialism, yet each is now unified. Sure, they've had problems (Kashmir and East Timor come immediately to mind), but they've mostly hung together as unified, sovereign states for several decades. So to say that a country like Afghanistan, despite its history and internal divisions, can "never" be unified is, I think, too simplistic. Better to say that it will be difficult and not very pretty, but it is possible.
1
You do have to ask why "our side" is always the corrupt government that lacks the confidence of the people.
You won't get an answer, but you do have to ask ;-).
You won't get an answer, but you do have to ask ;-).
2
And the cost for this new nearly covert war is? Eisenhower told us that "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." This war is theft from the American people. At the same time as we're supporting a questionable government in a country with endemic corruption and tribalism, Afghanistan is the source of the heroin which kills our poorest citizens and sends another large number of jobless Americans white and black to prison. People need to see "The House I live In" to connect the dots between the military-industrial profit centers , the militarization of police, the War on Drugs (Thank you Nixon and Reagon) and the for profit prison complex. There is a war going on and it's being practiced by the powerful Americans on the powerless. Drones and prisons are civilian-killing machines.
10
As the father of a soldier stationed in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I am appalled at the poor understanding of military operations demonstrated by our President. He has deployed strikes and armed incursions into Libya and Syria, with no public explanation of his plans or their consequences.
As an American, I am disgusted with the leadership on our executive branch. He has put our troops in harm's way, with no understanding of the consequences of his actions.
As an American, I am disgusted with the leadership on our executive branch. He has put our troops in harm's way, with no understanding of the consequences of his actions.
10
Ever since the Monroe Doctrine in 1823 the U.S. have actively involve itself in foreign affair openly or covertly. Providing arms to the rebels to overthrow the 2nd Mexican Empire in 1867, Theodore Roosevelt's Rough Riders that fought the Spanish in 1898, etc.... Anything that can destabilize a foreign nation to advance American business and military interest.
The U.S. will never leave Afghanistan because Afghanistan is spot middle in the Shanghai Cooperative Organization at the junction where Russia & CIS, China, India and Iran meet. It would be similar to China station troops in UK or France; right in the middle of NATO. If continuing bombing Afghanistan destabilizes Pakistan/India, Central Asia and western China, all the better for Washington.
It all sounds grim and that's true. The U.S. still have troops in UK and Germany because global empire demands constant warfare.
The U.S. will never leave Afghanistan because Afghanistan is spot middle in the Shanghai Cooperative Organization at the junction where Russia & CIS, China, India and Iran meet. It would be similar to China station troops in UK or France; right in the middle of NATO. If continuing bombing Afghanistan destabilizes Pakistan/India, Central Asia and western China, all the better for Washington.
It all sounds grim and that's true. The U.S. still have troops in UK and Germany because global empire demands constant warfare.
5
Obama, GET OUT!
We spent billions (trillions?) and wasted thousands of lives supporting the corrupt South Vietnamese regime 50 years ago - do we need to repeat the mistake supporting a corrupt Afghan regime?
GET OUT!!!!!!
We spent billions (trillions?) and wasted thousands of lives supporting the corrupt South Vietnamese regime 50 years ago - do we need to repeat the mistake supporting a corrupt Afghan regime?
GET OUT!!!!!!
8
We really needed to stay in the country for a much longer time if we are to stabilize Afghanistan. This is a very slow IV drip for the new Afghan government.
1
"We really needed to stay in the country for a much longer time if we are to stabilize Afghanistan."
Incorrect. We need to get out now. I don't know how old you are, but the very same thing was said decades ago for Vietnam: just a little while longer, and we'll have everything stable. We didn't stabilize Vietnam. We didn't stabilize Iraq. We didn't stabilize Libya. We didn't stabilize Afghanistan. We never stabilize any country that we attack. We just bomb them, occupy them, and eventually leave. If it's plausible to claim we won, that's what we claim. If not, we don't. Either way, we eventually leave and the country is worse off for our having been there.
Time to mind our own business.
Incorrect. We need to get out now. I don't know how old you are, but the very same thing was said decades ago for Vietnam: just a little while longer, and we'll have everything stable. We didn't stabilize Vietnam. We didn't stabilize Iraq. We didn't stabilize Libya. We didn't stabilize Afghanistan. We never stabilize any country that we attack. We just bomb them, occupy them, and eventually leave. If it's plausible to claim we won, that's what we claim. If not, we don't. Either way, we eventually leave and the country is worse off for our having been there.
Time to mind our own business.
1
This forms part of the conundrum I feel many liberals have when considering how we feel about Barack Obama's tenure. He seems to do public relations on the side of justice and clarity, and when it comes to aggressions within territories of combat, he seems to go over the top, like a cowboy with little restraint. He also seems to be quite sneaky in his actions, saying one thing and doing another.
Our history, in Iraq and in Afghanistan, has been more shameful and corrupt than it has been supportive of rescuing cultures from tyranny. Somehow this needs more attention and discussion. However, it also appears we have settled under the pressures of political correctness so as to consider all military actions as reasonable, and part of our defense--but of whom?
Do you think people here at home have stopped caring, and as importantly, stopped questioning?
Our history, in Iraq and in Afghanistan, has been more shameful and corrupt than it has been supportive of rescuing cultures from tyranny. Somehow this needs more attention and discussion. However, it also appears we have settled under the pressures of political correctness so as to consider all military actions as reasonable, and part of our defense--but of whom?
Do you think people here at home have stopped caring, and as importantly, stopped questioning?
2
It's war. How can we believe anything anyone involved is telling us?
2
It's always an averaging process of all available information. But if you're talking Central Asia or the Middle East, you've got to read the in-country or native news sites that aren't part of Western MSM.
You learn things like what things are called; in the states, it's a drone or a UAV. In Yemen, often, it's a Flying Robot Assassin.
You learn things like what things are called; in the states, it's a drone or a UAV. In Yemen, often, it's a Flying Robot Assassin.
1
There's no end game here. The Taliban ARE Afghanistan, successfully running the 'country' for decades prior to our specious adventure? When we run out of money to redistribute to our own military investment elite, they will once again take control. Everyone knows that, including our collaborator puppets that are frantically looting the government in their time remaining.
4
Oh boy, you really need to review your history. The Taliban has only existed for about two decades, and only "ran" Afghanistan for about five years (although even during that time it didn't have a complete grip on the entire country).
The map of central asia shows that Afghanistan is primarily another base from which to monitor and operate against Iran (the birthplace of chess) as well as an historical object of desire viewed from the windows of the Kremlin. Expecting the USA's geopolitical gamesters to willingly remove our assets from Afghanistan is unrealistic and probably naive.
1
Yes, and that is exactly why the US kept all of its troops in Iraq! It was obvious that once it stationed 170,000 military personnel so close to Iran, they were never going to leave. We really should try to persuade Obama to draw down those troops one day...
Yet again President Obama yields to the Pentagon war mongers and their masters in the greed-driven global military industrial/security complex and its greed-driven associates in the global corporatist oligarchy. Barack Obama continues to diminish his "legacy"!
6
That Oded Yinon Plan Washington, D.C. said:
"What does Afghanistan ... have to do with American national security?"
One could've asked the same question on September 10, 2011. The next day, we found out.
"What does Afghanistan ... have to do with American national security?"
One could've asked the same question on September 10, 2011. The next day, we found out.
2
Really? Why didn't we ask the same question regarding Saudi Arabia? 15 of the suicide/murderers were Saudis. Or Yemen? Four from Yemen.
2
I agree. We didn't ask enough questions, or take enough steps, about a lot of things. But that's no reason to dismiss current concerns about Afghanistan.
"A high number of civilian casualties in such strikes created increasing tensions with Afghan officials and the public"
you could say the same thing in Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya - it is endless! and now American Military is training the Fascists Right Sector - Asov Battalion - to murder Eastern Ukrainians.
None of our business! - The business of the USA is the welfare of its citizens. What does any of this have to do with citizens in Baltimore or jobs in Ohio?
or educating a kid in California?
end the Empire of Chaos
you could say the same thing in Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya - it is endless! and now American Military is training the Fascists Right Sector - Asov Battalion - to murder Eastern Ukrainians.
None of our business! - The business of the USA is the welfare of its citizens. What does any of this have to do with citizens in Baltimore or jobs in Ohio?
or educating a kid in California?
end the Empire of Chaos
10
nicely said
Can anyone explain to me why we are in Afghanistan? We went there to get Bin Laden, Right? He's gone? Now why are we there?
7
We hardly went there to get bin Laden only. It's an important location re: India vs. China in Kashmir; monitoring Pakistan and its ISI (co-author of the Mumbai Massacre against our solid ally India); and a keystone between Russia and its buddy, Iran. As Obama said on the campaign trail, "Afghanistan is the right war."
2
He was wrong then-- as in 2008-14 we supported Karzai's corrupt regime under Obama with K's brother in charge of the drug trade-- and he's wrong now. Eisenhower told us that "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." History and economics are not on our side here. Is this little war conducted off the books, too? How much does it cost?
There are no good alternatives in Afghanistan. If US simply withdrwas, the country will most likley fall to Taliban within six months. Probably after a long siege of Kabul, a lot of human suffering and a lot of deaths of everyone who worked for the US. That country will probably again be heaven to ISIS and other terrorists.
So it seems to be it is cheaper to maintain light US presence, do a few airstrikes and raids thus bolstering Afghan army. Maybe in time, with more help and with the cooperation with the new president things will look better there. Who knows... But I think what the army is doing with I am sure tacit approval of teh Obaam administration is a less bad alternative. There aren't any good choices in Afghanistan...
So it seems to be it is cheaper to maintain light US presence, do a few airstrikes and raids thus bolstering Afghan army. Maybe in time, with more help and with the cooperation with the new president things will look better there. Who knows... But I think what the army is doing with I am sure tacit approval of teh Obaam administration is a less bad alternative. There aren't any good choices in Afghanistan...
2
Give it to me straight. Are congressional declarations of war -- congressional responsibility and accountability -- obsolete?
3
Congress would be trying to insert the Hyde Amendment into a declaration of war.
1
Only due to executive overreach, coupled with Congressional abdication of its responsibility due to unwillingness to take a stand.
1
The "conflicts" are asymmetrical and do not invoke such a declaration. They're sui generis.
"We can't save [the Afghanis] from themselves...Best to abandon it to its fate…"
The Afghanis didn't invite us there in the first place, and no Afghani other than its US-puppet leaders would say we're welcome today. And we can't accomplish anything by being there.
So tell me again -- why, exactly, are we there?
Wait, wait – I know the answer!
Check out "Bagram, Afghanistan" on Google Earth. You'll discover a huge US air base (more than two miles long). That base -- which, incidentally, has expanded by leaps and bounds over the past several years as we've been "winding down" our operations in Afghanistan -- could be quite useful to our military long after we have no other reason to stay in Afghanistan.
That's why we're there and will be there for a very long time. And that's why we'll keep attacking anyone who doesn't want us there.
The Afghanis didn't invite us there in the first place, and no Afghani other than its US-puppet leaders would say we're welcome today. And we can't accomplish anything by being there.
So tell me again -- why, exactly, are we there?
Wait, wait – I know the answer!
Check out "Bagram, Afghanistan" on Google Earth. You'll discover a huge US air base (more than two miles long). That base -- which, incidentally, has expanded by leaps and bounds over the past several years as we've been "winding down" our operations in Afghanistan -- could be quite useful to our military long after we have no other reason to stay in Afghanistan.
That's why we're there and will be there for a very long time. And that's why we'll keep attacking anyone who doesn't want us there.
7
Hi, I'm on that base. I've talked to Afghans outside that base. They have told me they feel safer when we patrol their neighborhoods but they take most of their grievances to the Afghan Army. So to say "no Afghani" is a pretty bold statement.
Checked out "Northern California". Doesn't seem to be close to Afghanistan. Doubt you know what you're talking about.
If you knew what you were talking about you would recall there was a surge. The base expanded to support the surge. There is no more surge. The base is a shell of it's former self. Where Google Earth may show buildings there are now empty lots.
Checked out "Northern California". Doesn't seem to be close to Afghanistan. Doubt you know what you're talking about.
If you knew what you were talking about you would recall there was a surge. The base expanded to support the surge. There is no more surge. The base is a shell of it's former self. Where Google Earth may show buildings there are now empty lots.
1
So what's the problem? A big airbase? We've had over 38,000 troops in South Korea since 1953, and comparable numbers in Japan and Germany since 1945. Obama set up new US Military operations in Australia (!) and Central Africa in recent years, and we're right now building a forward base for 2 US Army combat brigades in Latvia, a novel twist in our "Russia reset."
"The sun never sets on the American Empire."
"The sun never sets on the American Empire."
2
InsanNYTy,
Not sure how long you've been at Bagram, but the current Google Earth image is dated 2015. Just as I said, that image shows Bagram is over two miles long. I've been checking it periodically for over a decade. Based on those checks, it's never been bigger than it is now. Maybe it's become a "shell" in the past few months, but I doubt that very seriously. It's exactly what I said: a more-than-two-mile long US air base that we will not be leaving, or dismantling, any time soon.
Not sure how long you've been at Bagram, but the current Google Earth image is dated 2015. Just as I said, that image shows Bagram is over two miles long. I've been checking it periodically for over a decade. Based on those checks, it's never been bigger than it is now. Maybe it's become a "shell" in the past few months, but I doubt that very seriously. It's exactly what I said: a more-than-two-mile long US air base that we will not be leaving, or dismantling, any time soon.
What's another decade of smart counter insurgency, if it means getting it right this time?
The fact that Obama can't admit that America is part of the problem in Afghanistan is sadly predictable.
The fact that Obama can't admit that America is part of the problem in Afghanistan is sadly predictable.
3
It would be instructive for those who think SpecOperators are uber patriots who do what they do because they want to make America behind it's white picket fence a safer place for the rest of us. Wake up and get a clue ! These men are WARRIORS and not 'flag wavers.' And they have my utmost respect. Hoo-Ya !
1
In principle I am 100% with what is being done, what I don't like is the hypocrisy and lies behind everything. The present White House is doing exactly what they have criticized about their predecessors, and in violation and contradiction of everything that they have preached.
3
There is something very Vietnam like, about the highly imaginative stories that our government is feeding to us about Afghanistan.
Although we were told, that if we did not win in Vietnam, the sky would fall down; after our utter defeat, nothing bad happened to us.
The same is true for Afghanistan. It does not matter what happens there.
As many readers may have noticed, we have our own real problems at home that need to be dealt with - let's all work together to solve them, rather than dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into the bottomless pit called Afghanistan.
Although we were told, that if we did not win in Vietnam, the sky would fall down; after our utter defeat, nothing bad happened to us.
The same is true for Afghanistan. It does not matter what happens there.
As many readers may have noticed, we have our own real problems at home that need to be dealt with - let's all work together to solve them, rather than dumping billions of taxpayer dollars into the bottomless pit called Afghanistan.
7
"The same is true for Afghanistan. It does not matter what happens there."
I couldn't agree more. I haven't been to Afghanistan in a very long time, but when I did spend some time there a few decades back I came away with two distinct impressions:
1. This place is is remote, utterly irrelevant to us.
2. The Afghanis like foreigners well enough, as individuals, but they very strongly resent outside interference by other countries -- the Soviet Union, the US, anybody. I met a lot of Afghanis, and I never met one who would want the US military to be there. To be sure, if you're a US-puppet Afghani official, you'll wan the US to hang around because a lot of your countrymen probably won't like it that you're a US-puppet Afghani official and may punish you once the Americans leave. I get that. But other than people like that, I doubt the attitude of Afghanis has changed since I've been there: "You're welcome to visit and spend money, but don't try to influence the way we do things here -- and, whatever you do, don't bring your government (including your military) with you; leave them at home."
I couldn't agree more. I haven't been to Afghanistan in a very long time, but when I did spend some time there a few decades back I came away with two distinct impressions:
1. This place is is remote, utterly irrelevant to us.
2. The Afghanis like foreigners well enough, as individuals, but they very strongly resent outside interference by other countries -- the Soviet Union, the US, anybody. I met a lot of Afghanis, and I never met one who would want the US military to be there. To be sure, if you're a US-puppet Afghani official, you'll wan the US to hang around because a lot of your countrymen probably won't like it that you're a US-puppet Afghani official and may punish you once the Americans leave. I get that. But other than people like that, I doubt the attitude of Afghanis has changed since I've been there: "You're welcome to visit and spend money, but don't try to influence the way we do things here -- and, whatever you do, don't bring your government (including your military) with you; leave them at home."
I absolutely hate this, but I no longer believe what my government is telling me.
9
AS I read the comments, it is becoming more evident that we are talking about the "Effects" of our struggles against the Al-Qaida/Taliban, ISIS et al as opposed to their "Causes" as these fighters are organized as Guerillas and that Organized Armies are Ill-suited to Defeat them; be it the US/NATO Armed Forces, the Afghan Army or the Iraqi Army for that matter.
WE "Need Militias To Fight Guerillas" and that it seems Iran had figured this out by helping the US defeat the Taliban on the ground by Organizing and Arming the Northern Alliance, but the US made them the Leader of Axis-of-Evil soon after and Iran withdrew their support for being betrayed and here we are 12 years later "Crying Over Spilled Milk".
THIS was also evident in Iraq as the Shia Militias drove the ISIS out and the same thing happened with the Iraqi Kurds using Arms and Organizational backing from Iran as they held their own against the ISIS.
SO the answer seems to be obvious, End Iran's Isolation and let them get the "Good Guys" whom WE want to help defeat the Al-Qaida and ISIS.
AS what we can do in the battle against Terror, again the answer has been obvious for years, Stop Supporting the Wahhabi House of Saud and Cut their Funding to Pakistan's Madrassas that are the Training Grounds for Brainwashing vulnerable young Sunnis so to end this Vicious Cycle.
WE "Need Militias To Fight Guerillas" and that it seems Iran had figured this out by helping the US defeat the Taliban on the ground by Organizing and Arming the Northern Alliance, but the US made them the Leader of Axis-of-Evil soon after and Iran withdrew their support for being betrayed and here we are 12 years later "Crying Over Spilled Milk".
THIS was also evident in Iraq as the Shia Militias drove the ISIS out and the same thing happened with the Iraqi Kurds using Arms and Organizational backing from Iran as they held their own against the ISIS.
SO the answer seems to be obvious, End Iran's Isolation and let them get the "Good Guys" whom WE want to help defeat the Al-Qaida and ISIS.
AS what we can do in the battle against Terror, again the answer has been obvious for years, Stop Supporting the Wahhabi House of Saud and Cut their Funding to Pakistan's Madrassas that are the Training Grounds for Brainwashing vulnerable young Sunnis so to end this Vicious Cycle.
3
"Some Western officials have privately... questioned how prolonging the American strategy in Afghanistan would be more effective this year than it had in the past 13."
By all reports, the circumstances are quite different today than in the past. The Karzai organized crime family is gone. The Afghan armed forces are more experienced and have taken the lead in the fight just in the past year. The Pakistanis have stopped supporting extremist groups in the border area after seeing the ISIS phenomenon. And the US and NATO have a tiny fraction of the troops on the ground, reducing the financial bleeding. And there is a 2016 deadline for withdrawal that Obama will not miss.
By all reports, the circumstances are quite different today than in the past. The Karzai organized crime family is gone. The Afghan armed forces are more experienced and have taken the lead in the fight just in the past year. The Pakistanis have stopped supporting extremist groups in the border area after seeing the ISIS phenomenon. And the US and NATO have a tiny fraction of the troops on the ground, reducing the financial bleeding. And there is a 2016 deadline for withdrawal that Obama will not miss.
The American military has a lot of political power in the US. You can talk about civilian power but this is the most powerful force in the world today, with many years of existence, before and after presidents. who embody what many of them consider the highest code of patriotism. The more war the bigger they are, commanding ever greater resources, now over a trillion per year. People like to blame Obama, like he can snap his fingers and bring this freight train to a stop. I think he's just a realist.
1
Are we to presume that the General in charge is not allowed the required latitude to tactically and intelligently stabilize the changing battlegrounds before him. Do we not have an elastic clause in our Constitution that allows for a purposeful latitude in governance that addresses a changing societal challenge.
2
What a pile of double talk from the Administration. Next think you know they'll be backing a "surge." That's always the answer: more troops, more fighting. It's worked so well for the last 14 years.
7
I've always wondered how insurgent action and terrorist action can continue on and on in what seems like forever. They use sidearms, howitzers, RPG's, rifles, automatic rifles, shotguns, bombs, chemicals, IED's, etc.to foment terror. USA and other countries use Laser-guided missiles, drones, bomb proof tanks, 50 caliber rifles,automatic rifles. smoke grenades, flash grenades, night vision googles, satellite imagery, spies, bullet-proof vests, helicopters, government intervention, local soldiers, snipers, propaganda, tons of cash pay outs. USA has unlimited access to military equipment and no lack of volunteers. The insurgents have nothing to offer their comrades but freedom from their dreary existence and martyrdom. And they are always in search of equipment and soldiers..Yet they keep on coming. No one can stop them. H'mmmm.
2
The best solution would be to replace the "National" Army with ethnic-based militas. Afghanistan isn't a nation. It's a forced union of several nations whose borders were drawn by the Brits and Russians during the great game.
As in Lebanon in the 80s (and now Iraq), it's by no means impossible that ethnic militas will prove tougher fighters than state security forces.
As in Lebanon in the 80s (and now Iraq), it's by no means impossible that ethnic militas will prove tougher fighters than state security forces.
14
Fine. Maybe. But it is not for the US to do. What right do we have to replace an army in any country with militias? Afghanistan is typical of US "handiwork." Other examples: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine, Yemen, Egypt, Somalia... These countries may end up OK, but they will do so without US interference.
1
I agree if the United Nations weren't such a meaningless waste of office space it would be allowing these nations to go back to the smaller nations they were before they were colonized. Kyurdistan and such. It worked for Yugoslavia after The Cold War ended. Just have to monitor them so that genocide doesn't start.
WHY should anyone be shocked or even surprised that the WH lied to them? Obama has lied through his teeth since he began the campaign and most likely much earlier than that. I'd go through the litany for you but there's not enough room here to spell them out and I'm not fluent in tweet or txt.
6
Afghanistan is the Saudi Arabia of Lithium... Let that sink in. We help them with the Taliban and they will have a lifetime of Batteries to sell the rest of the World. The Taliban can only be eradicated by force, we need to send in enough troops to root them out wherever they are period. Whilst we do that we continue to help Afghanistan with upgrading their infrastructure to allow the mining and production of the Lithium. It is a win win for freedom loving folks throughout the world and a devastating blow to the few that impose their will on the many.
We created the Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS and it is our responsibility to destroy our creation now that it has turned Frankensteinian. I served in Iraq and I met more good Muslims then I had shooting at me.
The Global War On Terrorism is as important to World Peace as WWI and WWII were. We need to start acting like it by removing Politics from the process and unleash our Military to do its job of Nation Building / Killing all the bad guys. I beg our nation not to give up on the good people of Afghanistan simply because the politics of the uninformed are in control of our nation. Our Military Men and Women are more than willing to sacrifice their time and energy to ensure that their children will live in a better World. Our Veterans each sign a blank check to the People of the United States of America for up to and including their lives. They dont give their lives for GWB, BHO, Donkeys or Elephants.
We created the Taliban, Al Qaeda and ISIS and it is our responsibility to destroy our creation now that it has turned Frankensteinian. I served in Iraq and I met more good Muslims then I had shooting at me.
The Global War On Terrorism is as important to World Peace as WWI and WWII were. We need to start acting like it by removing Politics from the process and unleash our Military to do its job of Nation Building / Killing all the bad guys. I beg our nation not to give up on the good people of Afghanistan simply because the politics of the uninformed are in control of our nation. Our Military Men and Women are more than willing to sacrifice their time and energy to ensure that their children will live in a better World. Our Veterans each sign a blank check to the People of the United States of America for up to and including their lives. They dont give their lives for GWB, BHO, Donkeys or Elephants.
2
The US military does not have anything like the infantry units or support to root out the Taliban.
Nor is that the role of the US military.
If you like the idea of a world police - good for you, but that has nothing to do with whether or not continuing to kill and be killed in Central Asia, maiming and killing thousands every years, is in the vital national interest of the United States - or if it is, in fact, about making a small group of people and corporations wealthy.
Nor is that the role of the US military.
If you like the idea of a world police - good for you, but that has nothing to do with whether or not continuing to kill and be killed in Central Asia, maiming and killing thousands every years, is in the vital national interest of the United States - or if it is, in fact, about making a small group of people and corporations wealthy.
4
So now we got Washington lawyers "fighting" this war with the same kind of remote controlled legalese as the drone pilots in Nevada use to fire missiles from remotely controlled unmanned drones flying over the same distant enemy.
I use the word "fighting" facetiously because while they do so their manicured hands needed get the slightest bit dirty, nor their starched white shirt get the least bit wrinkled or God forbid, blood stained.
I use the word "fighting" facetiously because while they do so their manicured hands needed get the slightest bit dirty, nor their starched white shirt get the least bit wrinkled or God forbid, blood stained.
2
"Months after Obama formally declared the war in Afghanistan is over...."
This statement is almost as absurd as the one Bush made aboard an aircraft carrier about the war in Iraq. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have never ceased since their inception; complete military withdrawal has never been contemplated, and probably never will be under the current foreign and military policies. The wars are just conducted at more "tolerable levels," or at least that's one rationale for their continuance.
This statement is almost as absurd as the one Bush made aboard an aircraft carrier about the war in Iraq. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have never ceased since their inception; complete military withdrawal has never been contemplated, and probably never will be under the current foreign and military policies. The wars are just conducted at more "tolerable levels," or at least that's one rationale for their continuance.
7
We may withdraw most of our own military BUT we still keep paying our guns-for- hire everyday everywhere.
Another eventual failed state.. Again. When will the U.S. learn.
3
The United States is conducting a Special Operations War in Afghanistan now. "Wide latitude" is an understatement. While publicly declaring a slow down in the reduction of troops, the White House has finally been able to wage the war they have found to be most media-effective. The drone war lacks oversight and has become a crutch for politicians and the intelligence community. By limiting the number of troops and their operational abilities, the war will only drag on with high casualties on the Afghani side. Obama has opened a door to a quagmire and it is unlikely American forces will make substantial gains in the region and maintain them.
4
History teaches us that changing Afghanistan was never going to be easy.
But in 2003 when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, our defeat was assured. Yet even though our defeat was assured in 2003, we continue to throw away the lives of our soldiers on the trash heap of history...just like we did for 11 years in Vietnam.
But in 2003 when Bush abandoned our troops in Afghanistan with no mission, no leadership and no strategy, our defeat was assured. Yet even though our defeat was assured in 2003, we continue to throw away the lives of our soldiers on the trash heap of history...just like we did for 11 years in Vietnam.
3
Do Americans ever notice as their nation spends billions playing policeman to the world and fighting terrorism, China keeps laughing all the way to the bank? What is exactly the US mission in the world, make the world love Americans? Rid the world of terrorists? How does the US stop the military machine pumping out a paranoid lather of fear and focus the standard of living for most working Americans?
10
War is Hell. Tell it to Laos, and Cambodia.
While the Taliban is a formidable adversary, and tough to kill, it certainly doesn't improve the situation for the White House to say our troops are "over there" only to train (AND supply ...) Afgan soldiers.
One more time ... after a long deployment, too many American deaths, and endless millions of American tax dollars thrown to the wind - American Troops are once again at the front, and doing all of the heavy lifting in the Afganistan Army's place.
I'm sure President Ghani is overjoyed at this scenario. As one looks at History, the US has bungled every foreign encouter in Afganistan, and the Middle East, since Reagan. We arm and train some dictator, only to have them turn on us with our own weapons. And, all of this - to make the World safe for Big Oil and Defense Contractors. What a cruel and repeated joke.
Take Old Glory off of the flagpole, and run the Halliburton logo up there. America is on the wrong course, and is creating more problems and enemys than ever.
While the Taliban is a formidable adversary, and tough to kill, it certainly doesn't improve the situation for the White House to say our troops are "over there" only to train (AND supply ...) Afgan soldiers.
One more time ... after a long deployment, too many American deaths, and endless millions of American tax dollars thrown to the wind - American Troops are once again at the front, and doing all of the heavy lifting in the Afganistan Army's place.
I'm sure President Ghani is overjoyed at this scenario. As one looks at History, the US has bungled every foreign encouter in Afganistan, and the Middle East, since Reagan. We arm and train some dictator, only to have them turn on us with our own weapons. And, all of this - to make the World safe for Big Oil and Defense Contractors. What a cruel and repeated joke.
Take Old Glory off of the flagpole, and run the Halliburton logo up there. America is on the wrong course, and is creating more problems and enemys than ever.
9
Ottawa
Tell that to the Republicans that believe in the "big stick" is the only diplomacy we need.
---------------------------
As world events have shown since the rise of China, the rise of Russia, and the rise of ISIS, the Republicans are correct. Which is why -- along with the Ferguson and Oakland and Baltimore riots -- Jeb Bush, and VP Walker or Rubio, will be elected in 19 months. America is too endangered in both hemispheres to vote otherwise.
Throw the dog a bone dept.: Cuba has not attacked us.
Tell that to the Republicans that believe in the "big stick" is the only diplomacy we need.
---------------------------
As world events have shown since the rise of China, the rise of Russia, and the rise of ISIS, the Republicans are correct. Which is why -- along with the Ferguson and Oakland and Baltimore riots -- Jeb Bush, and VP Walker or Rubio, will be elected in 19 months. America is too endangered in both hemispheres to vote otherwise.
Throw the dog a bone dept.: Cuba has not attacked us.
As we recall the last days of Viet Nam this week, I have to wonder why we learn no lessons from history and keep repeating the same (for 14 yrs) expecting a different outcome.
6
Any idea in case it is connected to resources? You need to watch Jon Stewart.
1
April 29, 2015
In the greater design for the good of the moderate educated Muslims in theater Afg / Pak the rules of on the ground stealth and trickery is as primitive as it can get and can only remind me how a losing enemy is done in by their own dishonor to language and faith in the brothers and sisters that in the cause for the warring – with the siren of divine authorship. What the leader of the free world says – President Obama is as much for the thinking readership domestic and international and one must ever conclude based of the reality that words of the forces have coded language as demoniacal systemic that no one really believes is reality – but when thugs have nothing else to live for by the apocalyptic primitive numinous –then one can understand the basis for the confusions – that for this poster is built into the over decade of accepting –there is not an interpretative journal on the planet that can give linear thoughts to what the goal –end game is but chaos –and that is Obama pledge as the noble destiny to all nations and worth the fight for the long valor of serving modernity’s grace on earth and light guided in mystery…..
Jja Manhattan, N. Y.
In the greater design for the good of the moderate educated Muslims in theater Afg / Pak the rules of on the ground stealth and trickery is as primitive as it can get and can only remind me how a losing enemy is done in by their own dishonor to language and faith in the brothers and sisters that in the cause for the warring – with the siren of divine authorship. What the leader of the free world says – President Obama is as much for the thinking readership domestic and international and one must ever conclude based of the reality that words of the forces have coded language as demoniacal systemic that no one really believes is reality – but when thugs have nothing else to live for by the apocalyptic primitive numinous –then one can understand the basis for the confusions – that for this poster is built into the over decade of accepting –there is not an interpretative journal on the planet that can give linear thoughts to what the goal –end game is but chaos –and that is Obama pledge as the noble destiny to all nations and worth the fight for the long valor of serving modernity’s grace on earth and light guided in mystery…..
Jja Manhattan, N. Y.
1
Yes, our Nobel Peace President is out bushing, W., bush. "Oh, when will we ever learn?" The never ending war continues. With the GOP and/or Clinton, it will continue. Tragic for our country, just tragic.
6
Sounds like Mission Accomplished 2, starring Barack Obama. He should have gotten out several years ago (instead of surging). I don't believe this will end well. The Taliban live there and we're just visiting.
11
Lest anyone forget, it was Eureka College guy cheerleader, WW II dodger, Ronnie Rayguns that started this.
It was Reagan who armed the Afghan fundamentalists who changed the their name to the Taliban. Who then gave bin Laden sanctuary and an entire country to al Qaida to hone their dark arts.
It was Reagan who solicited Saudi support which came in the form of Wahabbi madrasas working overtime producing anti western nihilistic, death worshipping jihadi's and suicide bombers.
It took the genius of the republican Sun Tzu, Boy George Bush, a Phillips Andover prep school guy cheerleader, a Viet Nam dodger, to really make it worse.
He invades Afghanistan and first thing, allows bin Laden to mosey out of Tora Bora, unmolested, THEN
Occupies AFGHANISTAN.
Clearly ignorant and being the always exceptional gringo he is, decides he can do better than the Brits and the Russians. Then, ignores Afghanistan, under supplies, under resources the troops, to lead, his major production.... wait for it...
The Charge of The Fools Brigade into Iraq.
It was Reagan who armed the Afghan fundamentalists who changed the their name to the Taliban. Who then gave bin Laden sanctuary and an entire country to al Qaida to hone their dark arts.
It was Reagan who solicited Saudi support which came in the form of Wahabbi madrasas working overtime producing anti western nihilistic, death worshipping jihadi's and suicide bombers.
It took the genius of the republican Sun Tzu, Boy George Bush, a Phillips Andover prep school guy cheerleader, a Viet Nam dodger, to really make it worse.
He invades Afghanistan and first thing, allows bin Laden to mosey out of Tora Bora, unmolested, THEN
Occupies AFGHANISTAN.
Clearly ignorant and being the always exceptional gringo he is, decides he can do better than the Brits and the Russians. Then, ignores Afghanistan, under supplies, under resources the troops, to lead, his major production.... wait for it...
The Charge of The Fools Brigade into Iraq.
28
So, its time to put and end to all the Fool's Brigades and like Ron Paul says impetously, bring all our bys back home and end the foreign adventurism. Let the Afghan proxy government seek peace with its own people, be they "Taliban" of "Al Qeada" or whatever the propagandistic label. Its time for some ald fasioned British cultural relativism and allow Afghans to be Afghans. Certainly the Wahabbis are worse judged by our own Neo-con standard.
2
How long? until left wing weasels are put into the military through a fair and broad draft. Then the American people will feel the effects, same as the conservative patriots whose children are used as cannon fodder. How many politician's kids are in the military? How many politicians actually served in combat in the military? Any liberals? Any at all?
2
Thank goodness we have ganja inspired Basketball Jones leading us out of the darkness of Afghanistan one putt at a time. Ready for Hillary indeed.
1
I think it is important to remember that the insurgents didn't agree to stop trying to kill Americans or Afghans.
If we ignore the insurgents we would be needlessly endangering US Soldiers' lives and the lives of the Afghans that we are trying to train.
If you agree with what you wrote then let's trade jobs. You can train Afghans to find bombs while making no effort to stop the guys who keep emplacing bombs and I will write about cats or something.
If we ignore the insurgents we would be needlessly endangering US Soldiers' lives and the lives of the Afghans that we are trying to train.
If you agree with what you wrote then let's trade jobs. You can train Afghans to find bombs while making no effort to stop the guys who keep emplacing bombs and I will write about cats or something.
4
Now, into our 14th consecutive year, how many more decades must U.S. military forces commit wars of aggression & acts of terrorism against countries in the Muslim world that never attacked or threatened the U.S.?
How many more millions of innocent Muslim civilians must we exterminate by wholesale acts of violence & the complete destruction of vital services & non-military infrastructure that makes life barely tolerable for them (both are war crimes)?
What more must we do beyond indiscriminate aerial bombardment, torture & military occupation until they finally realize the true benevolence of U.S. intentions; that all we do is rooted in selfless & righteous motives for their own good; to establish order & a lasting peace because we care about them & sincerely want to provide them, their children & future generations a better quality of life as we did for the people of Iraq & Afghanistan (neither of which ever attacked or threatened the U.S.)- something which we haven’t even got right at home.
As we continue our cause, these people will eventually come to appreciate all we have done to improve their lives; provided the means to achieve in some measure their own small piece of the pursuit of happiness & so renounce & repudiate for all time, all acts of terrorist reprisals against the U.S.
Now is not the time to hesitate or quit. We must broaden our cause & good will & commit aggression against Iran & then hopefully very soon, the entire Muslim world.
God Bless the USA.
How many more millions of innocent Muslim civilians must we exterminate by wholesale acts of violence & the complete destruction of vital services & non-military infrastructure that makes life barely tolerable for them (both are war crimes)?
What more must we do beyond indiscriminate aerial bombardment, torture & military occupation until they finally realize the true benevolence of U.S. intentions; that all we do is rooted in selfless & righteous motives for their own good; to establish order & a lasting peace because we care about them & sincerely want to provide them, their children & future generations a better quality of life as we did for the people of Iraq & Afghanistan (neither of which ever attacked or threatened the U.S.)- something which we haven’t even got right at home.
As we continue our cause, these people will eventually come to appreciate all we have done to improve their lives; provided the means to achieve in some measure their own small piece of the pursuit of happiness & so renounce & repudiate for all time, all acts of terrorist reprisals against the U.S.
Now is not the time to hesitate or quit. We must broaden our cause & good will & commit aggression against Iran & then hopefully very soon, the entire Muslim world.
God Bless the USA.
9
The "long war against the Taliban" in Afghanistan had turned out to be a nonstarter. It's time for the administration to rethink its strategy.
It's true that with the downdraw of Western forces the number of Taliban attacks has surged. Since Pakistan's security forces cracked down on insurgents in its tribal areas along the Afghan border, many of them - especially foreign fighters - had fled into Afghanistan and sought safe haven in remote, mountainous areas.
But in the long run the US needs to seek a political solution to the insurgency in Afghanistan. China is doing its part, by persuading Pakistan not to support the Afghan Taliban and trying to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table.
It's true that with the downdraw of Western forces the number of Taliban attacks has surged. Since Pakistan's security forces cracked down on insurgents in its tribal areas along the Afghan border, many of them - especially foreign fighters - had fled into Afghanistan and sought safe haven in remote, mountainous areas.
But in the long run the US needs to seek a political solution to the insurgency in Afghanistan. China is doing its part, by persuading Pakistan not to support the Afghan Taliban and trying to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table.
8
Much like Bush when he proclaimed the war was over in Iraq-10 years before it supposedly ended.But-that being said-we need to continue to fight terrorist around the globe!
Bush said no such thing. Which is why you cannot cite chapter and verse of when, where, and to whom he said it. Prove me wrong.
If we as a nation are to increase our domestic security and buttress our legitimate foreign policy interests we need to significantly reframe our paradigms about the Middle East and the use of military force in the region. First, we need to recalibrate our objectives away from inappropriate terms like "winning" and the increasingly disingenuous term of art; force protection.
We cannot win in Afghanistan because we do not have the military resources required to engage an enemy deeply embedded in a society's culture. Second, our westernized themes of winning run counter to the societal structure and values of Afghanistan.
Napoleon said morale is to physical as three is to one. The US paradigm for police and military forces is predicated on morale derived from a shared commitment to a national identity by members. The history and culture of Afghanistan is tribal not national. While US military advisors train Afghans to externally resemble as a military or police unit, internally 3/4 of unit cohesion and coordination essential in conflict remains rooted in tribalism.
Conducting drone attacks resulting in civilian casualties and property damage undermine whatever limited benefit US military presence provides. Since we lack the crucial real time human intel necessary to focus drone attacks we are probably creating three new Taliban fighters for every mid-level leader we eliminate. Afghans care more for their herds and homes instead of geopolitics.
We cannot win in Afghanistan because we do not have the military resources required to engage an enemy deeply embedded in a society's culture. Second, our westernized themes of winning run counter to the societal structure and values of Afghanistan.
Napoleon said morale is to physical as three is to one. The US paradigm for police and military forces is predicated on morale derived from a shared commitment to a national identity by members. The history and culture of Afghanistan is tribal not national. While US military advisors train Afghans to externally resemble as a military or police unit, internally 3/4 of unit cohesion and coordination essential in conflict remains rooted in tribalism.
Conducting drone attacks resulting in civilian casualties and property damage undermine whatever limited benefit US military presence provides. Since we lack the crucial real time human intel necessary to focus drone attacks we are probably creating three new Taliban fighters for every mid-level leader we eliminate. Afghans care more for their herds and homes instead of geopolitics.
19
The motto of Airborne Rangers used to be "Mess with the best-die like the rest" Ive the utmost respect for our special forces!
3
Yeah, well they say they can deploy a battalion anywhere in the world within 18 hours. I guess Benghazi must be on the moon.
1
"Stretch Official Parameters"?
As if there are ANY firm guidelines or real "parameters" to this endless warfare...
"sending Special Operations troops directly into harm’s way under the guise of “training and advising' "
Vietnam redux...deja vue all over again... why does the US seem utterly unable to learn from it disastrous mistakes of the past?
As if there are ANY firm guidelines or real "parameters" to this endless warfare...
"sending Special Operations troops directly into harm’s way under the guise of “training and advising' "
Vietnam redux...deja vue all over again... why does the US seem utterly unable to learn from it disastrous mistakes of the past?
9
As usual, if we don't learn from history and our mistakes, we will AND HAVE repeated them. Und so weiter, und so weiter, und so weiter (and so on and so on and so on in German).
The answer to your question is staring you in the face - look at the low quality people we send to Washington. When they are at their very best they barely make it to mediocre - and that's on their best day.
3
The barely hidden message in the article is that the US forces in Afghanistan should stand back and observe the attacks on Afghan forces from Taliban residing inside the boarder with Pakistan. This is most unfortunate. Not only the US but the World community should help Afghanistan.
The US/NATO forces could not bring themselves to face the fact that the Taliban are a creation of Pakistan Army who have trained and supported them all along.
I am afraid that the sacrifice of US troops in Afghanistan will be in vain and we shall revert back to the dangers facing us prior to 9/11 attcks.
The US/NATO forces could not bring themselves to face the fact that the Taliban are a creation of Pakistan Army who have trained and supported them all along.
I am afraid that the sacrifice of US troops in Afghanistan will be in vain and we shall revert back to the dangers facing us prior to 9/11 attcks.
5
We lost Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Libya. Get the picture??
6
So we know where the evil roots are flourishing? Why don't we burn them out and kill the roots? Politics of course. The goal is a straight line, the means is not complicated. What causes the problems are the spineless politicians with no skin in the game, no brains and no will to end it.
1
We didn't lose. We gave up. There was never a war with a goal of winning. All you name were politically motivated and operated skirmishes without organization, or the will or desire to actually win.
1
Heaven forbid that any Taliban are hurt or killed!
Hopefully the readers' "takeaway" from this article is that America's freedom fighters still understand that it is in their best interests to "reach out" when possible and irradiated this social cancer when the opportunity presents itself.
To do less is an invitation to go home in a bodybag.
With the history that Americans have with the Taliban I'm really surprised there are readers responding with an "OH MY !! " moment.
Usually people cheer when the pest control man has done his job.
Hopefully the readers' "takeaway" from this article is that America's freedom fighters still understand that it is in their best interests to "reach out" when possible and irradiated this social cancer when the opportunity presents itself.
To do less is an invitation to go home in a bodybag.
With the history that Americans have with the Taliban I'm really surprised there are readers responding with an "OH MY !! " moment.
Usually people cheer when the pest control man has done his job.
5
Did you not know that your "social cancer" was invented by USA during Russia's intervention years? Did you not know that CIA and State Dept. of USA recruited fundamentalist Jihadists in Pakistan for a Cold War that is now irrelevant? Please look into the issues before jingoing.
1
Airstrikes in support of Afghan forces should never be off the table as long as we are determined, as a matter of our overall national foreign policy, that we will not abandon Afghanistan to the Taliban. US forces had such air support throughout our ground campaign against the Taliban and it makes no sense to expect Afghan forces to cope without it. For one thing, the prospect of airstrikes makes it far more difficult for Taliban forces to concentrate for attacks against government forces. We are providing the same to Iraqi forces so I don't see why we would not wish to support Afghans equally.
Let's not forget that we invaded both of these countries and overthrew the established order. Our responsibility for assisting the governments we left in place, whether we agreed with those invasions or not, remains.
Let's not forget that we invaded both of these countries and overthrew the established order. Our responsibility for assisting the governments we left in place, whether we agreed with those invasions or not, remains.
3
If they can't stand on their own feet then helping them will go nowhere sooner or later we will be running with our tail between our legs like in Vietnam. Glad my time is done, let others die for nothing.
3
We haven't learned from the Brits and Russians in the 19th Century in what was called "The Great Game" that included the creation of the so-called country of Afghanistan and we haven't learned from the Russians in the 1980's. We seem to be as dumb as dirt.
After watching a few pieces on our withdrawal from South Viet Nam on PBS, this past week, there seems to be an echo. They bring home the troops and keep American personnel behind for a couple of years. What good are we really doing in Afghanistan? All we seem to do is bolster their economy with our dollars in cash, weapons and ammo, while they continue to sell opium and heroin back to American addicts via dangerous cartels.
34
I fear that Hillary is more of a hawk than Mr. Obama has shown he is. That leaves me no one to vote for in 2016, and perhaps only a vote against. This article is exactly what the Times should be doing more of. Notice the reporters all have Middle Eastern names with the exception of the brilliant Joe Goldstein.
Now the question of removing the U.S. from tthis war is -- how do we do it? Must we again go out in force as we did, forcing the military out of Vietnam?
Now the question of removing the U.S. from tthis war is -- how do we do it? Must we again go out in force as we did, forcing the military out of Vietnam?
9
"Notice the reporters all have Middle Eastern names with the exception of the brilliant Joe Goldstein."
Really? It could be that these people are going in harm's way to help produce this story and add to that the fact that they may be South Asian and not Middle Eastern.
Really? It could be that these people are going in harm's way to help produce this story and add to that the fact that they may be South Asian and not Middle Eastern.
3
Basic problem in Afghanistan is not about American presence or absence or about soldiers or weapons. It is a problem about money. Afghanistan is broke. No useful economic activity takes place there. There is no Industry, Agriculture or Tourism. It needs someone to pay its bills. The Ghani government will last as the Americans pay its bills. The day Americans stop writing the checks, the Taliban will take over. That still does not solve the problem, because Taliban's main sponsor, Pakistan is equally broke. Under Taliban, Afghanistan will resemble Somalia or North Korea.
3
Uh... the world's leading producer of raw opium is "broke?"
1
Since marijuana is de jure legal in several American states, and de facto legal in all 50 states, and semi-legal in much of Europe, of course the Afghani opium sellers are taking a big hit. Add in the elimination of many of their supply routes by US military (and DEA), and their $$$ is shrinking big time. (Mexico grows opium too, BTW.)
The US economy would collapse into the greatest depression of all time if it stopped military killing. Perpetual war provides the bulk of the wealth of the American 1%, who own the military industrial complex and profit enormously from it.
Every missile fired requires replacement at about $500,000 per missile, mostly profit for the rich.
Since 1942, the US military has officially focused on the mass slaughter of civilians as military "strategy." The "great" FDR initiated this policy in the "Good War" to determine which fascist imperialist state would rule the world.
The US won, sort of.
And since then the USA has killed over 20 million civilians (not including WWII), all for corporate profit.
General Curtis LeMay showed the underlying character of the American 1% and its voting class:
"There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders."
Go USA, kill some more babies today. Over 3 million people killed in Viet Nam alone, and mostly children, as Viet Nam had over 50% children in its demographics in the 1960s.
The NYT supported the Korean War, the Viet Nam War, the wars against Latin America, the Iraq war, the Afghan war, and now all the wars raging across the Middle East.
The voting class supports perpetual war. Their parents did, their grandparents did, and now they do.
Every missile fired requires replacement at about $500,000 per missile, mostly profit for the rich.
Since 1942, the US military has officially focused on the mass slaughter of civilians as military "strategy." The "great" FDR initiated this policy in the "Good War" to determine which fascist imperialist state would rule the world.
The US won, sort of.
And since then the USA has killed over 20 million civilians (not including WWII), all for corporate profit.
General Curtis LeMay showed the underlying character of the American 1% and its voting class:
"There are no innocent civilians. It is their government and you are fighting a people, you are not trying to fight an armed force anymore. So it doesn't bother me so much to be killing the so-called innocent bystanders."
Go USA, kill some more babies today. Over 3 million people killed in Viet Nam alone, and mostly children, as Viet Nam had over 50% children in its demographics in the 1960s.
The NYT supported the Korean War, the Viet Nam War, the wars against Latin America, the Iraq war, the Afghan war, and now all the wars raging across the Middle East.
The voting class supports perpetual war. Their parents did, their grandparents did, and now they do.
14
terrific comment Tom.. thanks
A timely show to see what happens when we abandon countries was on PBS Frontline this week: The abandonment of Vietnam. Months before we left we stopped supplying the South Vietnamese army with ammunition, etc. Gerald Ford was president; Nixon would never have let that happen. Watergate brought unexpected outcomes, you could say, ultimately costing untold thousands of Vietnamese boat people to drown, followed by 1.7 million murdered Cambodians under the Khmer Rouge. And a half-century later, thousands of refugees from Arab countries have drowned from yet more war.
If the Afghanis are smart they'll get out of the country ASAP, as the Jews did in 1938 from Germany. Everyone knows what awaits those who remain in what Obama in 2007 often called "the right war."
If the Afghanis are smart they'll get out of the country ASAP, as the Jews did in 1938 from Germany. Everyone knows what awaits those who remain in what Obama in 2007 often called "the right war."
2
With the rise of ISIS across the Middle East it is only logical to keep the militant insurgents at bay after all ISIS was a direct consequence of leaving Iraq to the newly born and poorly trained national army.
1
Not sure where your getting your information but that is not the reason ISIL exists.
2
It was a consequence of our illegal invasion of Iraq. Iran can handle ISIS and would -- if we'd just leave.
1
Apart from putting our forces in harm's way for a pyrrhic cause if we're eventually to leave Afghanistan, all this does is give the impression that the nation is salvageable from the Taliban if only given enough time to transform itself into something more viable.
It would require at least a generation.
The reason we're leaving (if that should ever happen) is that enough Americans have lost anything resembling hope that Afghanistan, as near a failed state as any other in history, can eventually stand on its own feet and remain free of the Taliban without decisive help from us. We're just no longer willing to pour blood and fortune into an experiment that patently would require decades to succeed, if it ever could.
There will be no easy parting -- the Taliban, that clearly intend to overrun the state again once we no longer field the forces to prevent them, won't let such a parting be easy, even if it were to be to their advantage. We may as well just cut the cord.
Counterterrorism? The entire conflict is terrorist and guerilla in nature, and we fight a foe who wears no uniform and embeds himself among civilian populations. The only way to "win" such a war is by overwhelming force delivered by expeditionary armies -- armies far larger than what we have there now; then by occupation until institutions can be built that foreclose a return of the guerillas.
It ain't gonna happen. We're wasting our men (and women) and our fortune: it's a lost cause.
It would require at least a generation.
The reason we're leaving (if that should ever happen) is that enough Americans have lost anything resembling hope that Afghanistan, as near a failed state as any other in history, can eventually stand on its own feet and remain free of the Taliban without decisive help from us. We're just no longer willing to pour blood and fortune into an experiment that patently would require decades to succeed, if it ever could.
There will be no easy parting -- the Taliban, that clearly intend to overrun the state again once we no longer field the forces to prevent them, won't let such a parting be easy, even if it were to be to their advantage. We may as well just cut the cord.
Counterterrorism? The entire conflict is terrorist and guerilla in nature, and we fight a foe who wears no uniform and embeds himself among civilian populations. The only way to "win" such a war is by overwhelming force delivered by expeditionary armies -- armies far larger than what we have there now; then by occupation until institutions can be built that foreclose a return of the guerillas.
It ain't gonna happen. We're wasting our men (and women) and our fortune: it's a lost cause.
7
Do you think we lose on purpose? It seems to be a pattern.
This article seems to be trying to find a problem when they should be praising a great general and a great Afghanistan president. Afghanistan was fortunate to have elected President Ghani. The former president of Afghanistan was corrupt and difficult to work with. General Campbell is the right man at the right time. The US has too much invested not to at least give this new leader a chance to be successful. President Obama gets a pat on the back and I would hope that he is as proud of General Campbell as I am.
7
I'm inclined to agree. The similarities between the current program in Afghanistan and the program in the Balkans in the late '90s are striking. Both programs conducted by Democratic administrations; both coming from "use US assets sparingly" and "stir up the hornets' nest as little as possible; both involving... Clintons.
2
Thank you, NYTImes, for publishing this and thanks to all the contributors.
I fell I finally read some truth about our military and their leaders like Campbell.
Lets see moreof this kind of writing and a lot less political candidte pap like paleo-diets and college debating teams.
I fell I finally read some truth about our military and their leaders like Campbell.
Lets see moreof this kind of writing and a lot less political candidte pap like paleo-diets and college debating teams.
13
The whole point of the article is that the military is exceding the guidelines established by the Administration. But we read in the last paragraph that the Administration is in line with what the military is doing. Why didn't that critical piece of information show up in the first paragraph?
Now that we have a a reliable partner as an Afghan president, it makes sense to re-adjust Afghan policy. However, this is no surge. The big picture is that the U. S. has sharply curtailed offensive operations while trying to give those who want to stay free of Taliban tyranny a fighting chance.
Final note: if an Afghan leader in a war zone pledges allegiance to ISIS publicly, I am glad we have a drone program to stop him before he commits an atrocity.
Now that we have a a reliable partner as an Afghan president, it makes sense to re-adjust Afghan policy. However, this is no surge. The big picture is that the U. S. has sharply curtailed offensive operations while trying to give those who want to stay free of Taliban tyranny a fighting chance.
Final note: if an Afghan leader in a war zone pledges allegiance to ISIS publicly, I am glad we have a drone program to stop him before he commits an atrocity.
25
How many more years and how much more money do we have to spend before we realize that these cultures are different and have no interest in becoming like us. Even the Soviets realized that communism was a failure. We need to get out of these countries and let them figure out their own future. Let's spend the money securing our borders and providing jobs for people at home.
16
The Soviets only "realized" Communism was a failure when Star Wars forced them to play second-fiddle militarily, and Gorbachev saw the light. Russia and some nearby countries still revere Communism, as does Cuba, Venezuela, Bolivia, and other countries.
3
I have been to Cuba, believe me, the average Cuban knows that communism has been an utter failure. I'd hardly call Venezuela or Bolivia a success story and China is more capitalist than communist, but with centralized decision making. Either way, none of that has anything to do with whether we can be successful in Afghanistan, we need only look at Iraq to see the future.
Bolivia, and I am there now, is not a communist country by any stretch of the imagination. You are very misinformed. Its economic growth has been higher than other Latin American countries for the last couple of years and this year is predicted to be second only to Panama. There is an economic boom here, whether that is ssutainable is another matter.
Ah, the Pope is coming here in July!
Ah, the Pope is coming here in July!
Congress has the Constitutional authority and obligation to declare war and to authorize the use of military force by the President. Yet since the Gulf of Tonkin resolution was given to LBJ for Vietnam Congress has ceded that role to the President. POTUS Obama can do as he pleases as long as Congress is partisan divided and reckless.
President Obama declared victory in Iraq and left. Obama claimed that winning was also imminent in Afghanistan. Yemen was claimed to be an iconic success by Obama. In the aftermath of 9/11/01 only .75% of Americans have joined the military. America's allies lack the motivation, competence and personnel to fight this war. Beyond empowering the Shiite Muslims and the Kurds, America has accomplished very little. These fierce Afghan mountain tribal warriors have specialized in burying empires since the days of Alexander the Great.
In the wake of America troop draw down, al Qaeda , ISIIS/ISIL and their affiliates have become more powerful. Instead of kidnapping, torturing and indefinitely detaining our enemies like W, President Obama is killing them with missiles fired by drones. Declaring victory and withdrawing is the new American win. But locals do not notice nor care. President Obama can not hold on nor safely let go in Iraq or Afghanistan.
President Obama declared victory in Iraq and left. Obama claimed that winning was also imminent in Afghanistan. Yemen was claimed to be an iconic success by Obama. In the aftermath of 9/11/01 only .75% of Americans have joined the military. America's allies lack the motivation, competence and personnel to fight this war. Beyond empowering the Shiite Muslims and the Kurds, America has accomplished very little. These fierce Afghan mountain tribal warriors have specialized in burying empires since the days of Alexander the Great.
In the wake of America troop draw down, al Qaeda , ISIIS/ISIL and their affiliates have become more powerful. Instead of kidnapping, torturing and indefinitely detaining our enemies like W, President Obama is killing them with missiles fired by drones. Declaring victory and withdrawing is the new American win. But locals do not notice nor care. President Obama can not hold on nor safely let go in Iraq or Afghanistan.
1
Actually Bush declared Iraq war over. So Obama is in good company. Everyone declares they have won its just to keep the sheeple happy and from stampeding.
1
The United States involves itself in Midlle Eastern affairs strictly for oil. Yet every middle eastern country practices torture of one kind or another and totally ignores human rights of any kind. Why do we bother with them? Are we that desperate for oil? Seems to me that we do just fine on our own.
6
it's called war profiteering. We should be out out out by now.
16
The United States involves itself in Midlle Eastern affairs strictly for oil.
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Since the USA is a net exporter of oil, America had no reason to do that, much less "strictly." You're likely trotting out that old deal that formed ARAMCO in the early 20th century. Substitute "defense of Israel" for "oil."
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Since the USA is a net exporter of oil, America had no reason to do that, much less "strictly." You're likely trotting out that old deal that formed ARAMCO in the early 20th century. Substitute "defense of Israel" for "oil."
2
So producing 9 million barrels a day and using 19 million barrels a day is your idea of being "a net exporter of oil"?
Wow! Mr. magical thinking! God help us .
Wow! Mr. magical thinking! God help us .
This American war in Afghanistan has become a corrupt and contemptible quagmire, a disaster like all the other imperial invasions there throughout history.
The USA is causing more terror, and creating more terrorists in response, than any conceivable good that our militaristic government espouses.
Inevitably, deadly blowback will ensue, not just in that distant land, but back home.
The moral and monetary treasure wasted, and all the lives lost waging this horrible war, will haunt and curse our country, just as it has from Vietnam.
Meanwhile, this week broadcasts from The Hague, where the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom is calling for the end to war, all war.
If we would only give peace a chance.
Peace is not the passive absence of war.
Peace is the active forging of justice.
The USA is causing more terror, and creating more terrorists in response, than any conceivable good that our militaristic government espouses.
Inevitably, deadly blowback will ensue, not just in that distant land, but back home.
The moral and monetary treasure wasted, and all the lives lost waging this horrible war, will haunt and curse our country, just as it has from Vietnam.
Meanwhile, this week broadcasts from The Hague, where the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom is calling for the end to war, all war.
If we would only give peace a chance.
Peace is not the passive absence of war.
Peace is the active forging of justice.
19
The goal of the owners of this country is perpetual war for perpetual profits..that is THE goal.
10
This is, of course Wealth Redistribution from the taxpayers to the 'Defense' profiteers. It is NOT profit to our overall economy.
The United States grows more dangerous as the shadow government/deep state comes to appreciate its decline - the decline of the petrodollar/reserve currency status, and the decline of cost-effective weaponry, and the decline of a coherent foreign policy not warped by corporate and special interests.
The US is creating terrorists faster than it can kill them.
Or arm them - as it has been doing in Syria.
The US is creating terrorists faster than it can kill them.
Or arm them - as it has been doing in Syria.
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No matter how many die (or are maimed), no matter how long we stay, no matter how much we spend, I cannot envision a strife-free Afghanistan in the next decade. Their allegiances are tribal, or to the highest bidder. We're just continuing their collective misery with ongoing combat operations there. If they want to evolve into a democratic society, they'll need to sort that out on their own. Obviously our nation building isn't working, only enabling dependency.
5
This looks a lot like Nixon's decision to go in Cambodia. Can't admit it's over, can't admit the Afghan Government is a weak puppet that the Afghan people do not trust, respect or fallow.
12
Three years ago, I traveled to Waziristan, that area in the "porous boundary" between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Both states are so-called "failed states." The stated goals of U.S. intervention are to 'ensure stability.'
These “failed states” are also classified as "resource rich states." U.S. access to oil, coal, gas, copper, gold, iron, titanium and aluminium are a top priority. Keeping a resource rich state in the status of "failed state" is therefore essential.
Enter the drones. War is not popular with the U.S. public. Drones limit the casualties on our side. But because they kill huge numbers of civilians (the families of whom our delegation spoke with directly), they also increase the ranks of insurgent forces. Hence: a continued "failed state," which, by definition, is an endless justification for intervention. With the troops present nearby, "U.S. assets are threatened," and the airstrikes continue. U.S. assets will always be there (because, remember? It’s a “failed state”), so it is an endless cycle.
The rhetoric this article presents and challenges (thankfully) is the smokescreen that covers the logic of endless war. There is no end to this until we understand what drives it, and until we oppose it.
These “failed states” are also classified as "resource rich states." U.S. access to oil, coal, gas, copper, gold, iron, titanium and aluminium are a top priority. Keeping a resource rich state in the status of "failed state" is therefore essential.
Enter the drones. War is not popular with the U.S. public. Drones limit the casualties on our side. But because they kill huge numbers of civilians (the families of whom our delegation spoke with directly), they also increase the ranks of insurgent forces. Hence: a continued "failed state," which, by definition, is an endless justification for intervention. With the troops present nearby, "U.S. assets are threatened," and the airstrikes continue. U.S. assets will always be there (because, remember? It’s a “failed state”), so it is an endless cycle.
The rhetoric this article presents and challenges (thankfully) is the smokescreen that covers the logic of endless war. There is no end to this until we understand what drives it, and until we oppose it.
8
It is significant that the Afghan forces, after more than a decade of training and support, still cannot hold their own in battle.
Why? They are no less Afghans than the Taliban. The difference is that, unlike the Taliban, regular Afghan forces have little sense of what they’re fighting for. Why fight for an ineffective, still-corrupt-to-the-gills government that delivers few services?
Until that element is removed - fat chance - Afghan security forces will not ever stand up.
Why? They are no less Afghans than the Taliban. The difference is that, unlike the Taliban, regular Afghan forces have little sense of what they’re fighting for. Why fight for an ineffective, still-corrupt-to-the-gills government that delivers few services?
Until that element is removed - fat chance - Afghan security forces will not ever stand up.
5
Afghan forces are only there cause it's a job. However, for a military to be called soldiers they have to believe in and be loyal to those they serve. In Afghanistan, this is not the case and may never be the case. Pour all the arms, money and training you have into Afghanistan and all you will do is supply those that hate us. The same goes for Syria.
4
“Do you know what was in his mind?”
To me this terrifying question by an American general officer suggests the commission of a war crime.
To me this terrifying question by an American general officer suggests the commission of a war crime.
29
Much as I think cratering terrorists is always a good thing, I can't really approve of these military actions. There is, after all, no hope for Afghanistan, no point in continued operations. Yes, they're a terrorist spawning ground, but they will be up until there aren't any humans there anymore (which will happen within a century). The culture is misogynistic, violent, fundamentalist, and medieval, and the vast majority of the people there enforce it staying that way. We can't save them from themselves, and can't turn Afghanistan into a modern, tolerant, peaceful nation by killing off most of the population.
Best to abandon it to its fate, as Russia wisely did last century, and just keep a close eye on the borders, containing the violence as much as possible. Global warming will solve Afghanistan anyway, and we can't, so all of this military action seems entirely moot.
Part of my view here is definitely due to having a cousin stationed there, a cousin I would much rather not have killed by some barbarian for no reason. He's highly intelligent, a doctor, has a wonderful wife and three great kids, and it seems like a total waste to even have him over there when he could be doing so much good back here.
But even if he wasn't there, I'd feel the same way about all the Americans we're putting in harm's way. They're good people, deserving of a peaceful, happy life, and there's no way they can fix Afghanistan anyway. Bring our people home, Mr. President.
Best to abandon it to its fate, as Russia wisely did last century, and just keep a close eye on the borders, containing the violence as much as possible. Global warming will solve Afghanistan anyway, and we can't, so all of this military action seems entirely moot.
Part of my view here is definitely due to having a cousin stationed there, a cousin I would much rather not have killed by some barbarian for no reason. He's highly intelligent, a doctor, has a wonderful wife and three great kids, and it seems like a total waste to even have him over there when he could be doing so much good back here.
But even if he wasn't there, I'd feel the same way about all the Americans we're putting in harm's way. They're good people, deserving of a peaceful, happy life, and there's no way they can fix Afghanistan anyway. Bring our people home, Mr. President.
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Dan: The irony, of course, is that we should have been on the side of the Soviets instead of creating the Taliban and funding them and Al Qaeda...
It was the progressive, educated elite who invited the Soviets into Afghanistan in the first place, naively dreaming that they could somehow achieve an egalitarian society where women would be free to choose their own destinies and every child would go to school.
Not that the Soviets were a battalion of Santa Clauses. My stomach was turned by the images of exploding devices packed into things like pens and childrens toys by Soviet armament factories. Those workers knew whose fingers were going to be blown off by those...
As the founder of a womens center in a very conservative city in Pakistan, I know that without local community support for education and change, nothing can be achieved by outsiders. Even in conservative areas, one can find religious leaders begging for economic and literacy opportunities for their own women and for the community. But without that inherent desire, no amount of money or military action will make any difference.
It was the progressive, educated elite who invited the Soviets into Afghanistan in the first place, naively dreaming that they could somehow achieve an egalitarian society where women would be free to choose their own destinies and every child would go to school.
Not that the Soviets were a battalion of Santa Clauses. My stomach was turned by the images of exploding devices packed into things like pens and childrens toys by Soviet armament factories. Those workers knew whose fingers were going to be blown off by those...
As the founder of a womens center in a very conservative city in Pakistan, I know that without local community support for education and change, nothing can be achieved by outsiders. Even in conservative areas, one can find religious leaders begging for economic and literacy opportunities for their own women and for the community. But without that inherent desire, no amount of money or military action will make any difference.
4
SCA: We did not create the Taliban nor have we ever funded the Taliban or Al Qaeda. The Taliban were formed in 1994, long after we had stopped funding the mujahideen in Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. Pakistan created the Taliban, which allowed al Qaeda into the country. Our lack of interest in Afghanistan after the Soviets left helped create the conditions for the Taliban to take over but we did not create them.
4
Dear SCA,
I think you're mostly right, except that, as DSW points out, we didn't technically create the taliban themselves. We funded and armed muhajideen who later used their munitions in service of the emerging taliban. Still I think the best thing at the time might have been to join the Soviets, attempt to corral their wanton slaughter approach, and jointly manage Afghanistan as a client state, similar to Germany after WWII.
Thanks too for your efforts in Pakistan, it badly needs any help it can get in modernizing and achieving some equality. But as you say, if the inhabitants are unwilling to change, it's not really possible to change them, and it seems like lots of the people in Afghanistan like the status quo.
I think you're mostly right, except that, as DSW points out, we didn't technically create the taliban themselves. We funded and armed muhajideen who later used their munitions in service of the emerging taliban. Still I think the best thing at the time might have been to join the Soviets, attempt to corral their wanton slaughter approach, and jointly manage Afghanistan as a client state, similar to Germany after WWII.
Thanks too for your efforts in Pakistan, it badly needs any help it can get in modernizing and achieving some equality. But as you say, if the inhabitants are unwilling to change, it's not really possible to change them, and it seems like lots of the people in Afghanistan like the status quo.
What does Afghanistan, or Libya, or Syria, or Ukraine... have to do with American national security?
What gives the United States the right to foment coups and prop up dictators and drop tens of thousands of bombs on 'suspects' to the tune of trillions of dollars - as schools decay, bridges rot, and cities devolve into chaos?
What gives the United States the right to foment coups and prop up dictators and drop tens of thousands of bombs on 'suspects' to the tune of trillions of dollars - as schools decay, bridges rot, and cities devolve into chaos?
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Insofar as Libya, Yemen, or Syria are concerned (somewhat less so with Afghanistan), we talk about them being on the brink of collapse, chaos and falling into the hands of extremist leaders. Bombing them into oblivion won't work; perhaps they need to actually go through it in order to get through it.
You answered your own question "trillions of dollars" - those who profit from war are the true enemy.
1
I agree, except for Ukraine. My argument when it comes to the Ukrainian conflict is simple: the Ukrainians are ready to fight to the end against Russia, be it with sticks, stones, bones, Kalashnikovs or Humvees. The least we owe an aspiring democratic nation is the right to defend itself.
1
Yo, yo, Barry O., how many kids will you kill by drone?
9
One day we will finally realize that hearts and minds are not won with 11 aircraft carrier fleets and multi-decade global wars.
29
@ Abraham - First we must realize that winning hearts and minds is not worth the expenditure of American lives and treasure!
I think the issue is profits more than hearts and minds.
9
We only have to save their lives if possible, not win their hearts and minds. Better to win the hearts and minds of Baltimore, and similar cities.
When the Chinese keep taking over vast swaths of the Pacific, and Russia keeps openly threatening the Baltic States, including Denmark and Sweden, you'll appreciate anew what 11 carrier groups can do.
When the Chinese keep taking over vast swaths of the Pacific, and Russia keeps openly threatening the Baltic States, including Denmark and Sweden, you'll appreciate anew what 11 carrier groups can do.
3
The US planned to invade Afghanistan before 9/11 - or, there were plans being made - and though most Americans don't know this, it is established fact.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/11/afgh-n20.html
The motives were dubious and illegal then, and more so now.
Get out.
And resist the Israel Lobby's ongoing efforts to lie, trick, or bully us into Iran, which has no nukes and isn't working on nukes - unlike Israel.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/11/afgh-n20.html
The motives were dubious and illegal then, and more so now.
Get out.
And resist the Israel Lobby's ongoing efforts to lie, trick, or bully us into Iran, which has no nukes and isn't working on nukes - unlike Israel.
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which has no nukes and isn't working on nukes - unlike Israel.
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Too funny. Poor John Kerry, laboring for 4 months in Geneva when Iran is not even working on nukes. Who knew? He should've negotiated with Tel Aviv for 4 months, right?
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Too funny. Poor John Kerry, laboring for 4 months in Geneva when Iran is not even working on nukes. Who knew? He should've negotiated with Tel Aviv for 4 months, right?
2
@Charles - do you have evidence that Iran is working on nukes?
It seems, based on your glib retort, that you must - but you didn't provide it.
I assume this was an oversight?
It seems, based on your glib retort, that you must - but you didn't provide it.
I assume this was an oversight?
3
We need to stop kidding ourselves. Without an American military presence Afghanistan would collapse into chaos, see Iraq. We broke it, so we now own it. Lets just call it another American territory, Guam without the beaches.
2
Afghanistan nationals have NEVER lost any way to outsiders be they British, Soviet or US.
Get out now.
Get out now.
2
No, we don't own it. We broke it, but can never own it. Just pay for what we broke and get out of there.
1
The Military Industrial Complex machine grinding away at civilization!
35
POTUS is just a transitory figure, while the military, security apparatus and long-term members of Congress hold the reins of power.
2
This secret war has been going on for quite some time under the noses of administration officials in Kabul who deny it is happening. We want to run the war our way, and have the Afghans do our bidding. The downside to this micro-managing approach is that it gives credence to the Taliban narrative that Ghani is an American stooge. That many Afghans see the Taliban's version of as accurately reflecting the reality of their daily lives is borne out by the success of this year's Taliban offensives during the early stages of the Fighting Season.
3
@ Beantownah - You are 100% correct. Let the Taliban have Afghanistan then the world can again watch the murders of men, women and children by the Taliban in their soccer stadiums. Do you remember those videos?
2
It would appear that our Commander in Chief Obama has abdicated or perhaps even gone AWOL.
5
Does anyone really expect the military to tell the truth? The Taliabn have virtually retaken Helmand province and are slowly encircling Kabul. Of course the U.S. military is going to be "stretching" the rules to maintain its dominance in the country. Bagram has to be saved at all costs.
And another point. This newspaper usually is a fair and accurate source of information. But there has been no mention of the 40,000 mercenaries from companies like Blackwater employed in Afghanistan. Or is this subject on the "Do Not Tell" list issued by the military?
The U.S.
And another point. This newspaper usually is a fair and accurate source of information. But there has been no mention of the 40,000 mercenaries from companies like Blackwater employed in Afghanistan. Or is this subject on the "Do Not Tell" list issued by the military?
The U.S.
10
This must be why Generl Campbell tried to classify how US funds are used in Afghanistan. Of course, he and his oh so close buddy,the new Afghan president, may have other more personal reasons to hide where US tax dollars are going.
I wonder into whose pockets?????
I wonder into whose pockets?????
President Obama has proven to any who did not already know this, or doubted it, that there is no difference between black and white people. Obama lies just as much as any white president has. And he is just as much a war monger as any other American president. Congratulations, President. You should really be proud of this accomplishment.
25
Imagine having gone to war in Afghanistan in 2001, having deposed the government in a matter of months, but still being at war in Afghanistan in 2015. Afghanistan is among the poorest of countries, but we have been at war there since 2001, with all the impossible costs of war, with no end in view no matter what we have been told by the President.
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Wars can never be concluded when they are not waged decisively. Obama knows nothing more than half-measures and baby steps because he is a pacifist, as everyone knows. Even domestically, he's never even visited Baltimore, or South Carolina, or Ferguson during their black riots. Yes, he's that timid.
Gold, pure gold from General Campbell. Trust a military man to tell it like it is.
“Do you know what was in his mind?” We execute people based on thought crime, or what they might do.
“Washington is going to have to say what they say politically for many different audiences, and I have no issue with that...And if that doesn’t sell, I can’t worry about it.” The politicians are lying to you to get your vote. That you are so gullible is not my problem.
“Do you know what was in his mind?” We execute people based on thought crime, or what they might do.
“Washington is going to have to say what they say politically for many different audiences, and I have no issue with that...And if that doesn’t sell, I can’t worry about it.” The politicians are lying to you to get your vote. That you are so gullible is not my problem.
26
What a biased slant to this article, implying that there's something nefarious about us killing bad guys.
Sheesh, if we didn't do something, and the Taliban came back, you'd be all over Obama with criticism. What the heck is he supposed to do to NOT be criticized?
I'm all for the bombing runs against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh/Taliban/etc. Let's have more of them, please, and with a lesser dose of whining about it.
Sheesh, if we didn't do something, and the Taliban came back, you'd be all over Obama with criticism. What the heck is he supposed to do to NOT be criticized?
I'm all for the bombing runs against ISIS/ISIL/Daesh/Taliban/etc. Let's have more of them, please, and with a lesser dose of whining about it.
4
I understand your viewpoint Castor, but the problem is, the actions we're undertaking aren't reducing the number of fundamentalist lunatics in Afghanistan. We kill a few here, a few there, and every couple has 7 to 14 kids, and when their dad gets killed in combat all the sons sign up for terrorism. If we were really going to cause a shift in Afghanistan, we'd need to do bombing runs that would slay a few million people at least. I'd pretty much accept that at this point but I don't think the world or the public here would, so maybe it's best to pull out and just shoot down whatever emerges from that hellish place.
3
It's important to keep Lockheed Martin's profits rolling along, after all.
49
Just can't admit that you've lost can you. Then lie to cover it up. How long is this war that is not a war going to continue, Mr. President?
10
Until January 21, 2016. When Jeb will clean up Barry's years of foreign policy disasters, just like George had to clean up Clinton's 8 years of kicking the can down the road, enabling 9/11.
Obama thought he could squander victory in Iraq and not be blamed for it. Boy was he ever wrong.
He's the worst POTUS since Carter, but at least he won't make the same mistake in Afghanistan he made in Iraq. He has to try to salvage what remains of his tattered foreign policy legacy.
Can't wait for the posts from liberals SHOCKED that he lied again.
He's the worst POTUS since Carter, but at least he won't make the same mistake in Afghanistan he made in Iraq. He has to try to salvage what remains of his tattered foreign policy legacy.
Can't wait for the posts from liberals SHOCKED that he lied again.
7
Obama is the worst President since Carter? Congratulations on disqualifying yourself as a sentient human being.
12
@Jeff: There was never victory in Iraq. In what way did we win?
By unleashing sectarian bloodletting after taking the Baathist (Sunni) government and making it a Shia government? By failing to secure the country's infrastructure and oil fields? By failing to train an army that wouldbn't cut and run under attack? By installing a puppet who then failed to sign a Status of Forces Agreement letting us continue the mission?
That we ever went there at all was a war crime. Got it?
Your partisan blame throwing makes me sick.
By unleashing sectarian bloodletting after taking the Baathist (Sunni) government and making it a Shia government? By failing to secure the country's infrastructure and oil fields? By failing to train an army that wouldbn't cut and run under attack? By installing a puppet who then failed to sign a Status of Forces Agreement letting us continue the mission?
That we ever went there at all was a war crime. Got it?
Your partisan blame throwing makes me sick.
4
Stop the Right wing propaganda.
There was never a victory in Iraq.
We were babysitters
EVERYONE knew the civil-warring factions would be at it as soon as we left.
And, again a reminder - WE WERE THROWN OUT,
There was never a victory in Iraq.
We were babysitters
EVERYONE knew the civil-warring factions would be at it as soon as we left.
And, again a reminder - WE WERE THROWN OUT,
Obama you are another Bush get out of the Middle East. Don't you people realize Afghanistan is the country where empires go to die. The British tried so did USSR and now Americans. Face it folks Afghanistan and the Taliban will beat you everytime.
13
We killed thousands of Taliban that you never hear about. We could wipe them out entirely, with the right President, as in "right-wing." It's the only way to stop them.
General Campbell should not be acting as a de facto defense minister for the Afghan government unless the goal is to maintain perpetual war.
The American military can not change the Afghan culture. My disappointment in Obama's willingness to wage more war is immense.
The American military can not change the Afghan culture. My disappointment in Obama's willingness to wage more war is immense.
93
His capacity for untruth has grown accordingly.
2
How we fight wars today is perpetual... it definitely is not "all out war".
Russia was "smart" enough to throw in the towel after 10 years. We've now been there for nearly 14 and, in spite of the President's assurances, the end is not in sight. I don't think at this point that we're even capable of articulating our goals. By itself, this should provide whatever incentive is necessary to make like old soldiers and just fade away.
8
US goals = greater MIC profits. See? Easy!
4
"Some Western officials have privately expressed discomfort with the American role and questioned how prolonging the American strategy in Afghanistan would be more effective this year than it had in the past 13."
Well, quite. It does rather beg the question doesn't it? But who are we to question our superiors who have been failing everywhere for years.
Well, quite. It does rather beg the question doesn't it? But who are we to question our superiors who have been failing everywhere for years.
23
I am just shocked that The Times would report that the Obama administration has been less than forthcoming with the American people. George W. Obama loves to use military force, and especially his drones, while pretending to be a man of peace. So long as he thinks military action is under the radar of the press, Obama seems to be perfectly content to kill as many Muslims as Bush did.
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Radical Muslims are not like other peaceful Muslims.Much like radical Christians here in America VS God loving Christians.You cant lump them all into one group.
Uh, Phillips Andover prep school guy cheerleader, Viet Nam dodging coward, appointed President Boy George killed 600,000 to 800,000 Iraqi CIVILIANS per Johns Hopkins.
He and his partner in war crimes Viet Nam draft dodging coward Cheney murdered 4,489 GI's as sure as if they shot them themselves.
Maimed for life another 13,000 GI's.
a Viet Nam veteran
He and his partner in war crimes Viet Nam draft dodging coward Cheney murdered 4,489 GI's as sure as if they shot them themselves.
Maimed for life another 13,000 GI's.
a Viet Nam veteran
4
But it's not about the numbers. One Gulf of Tonkin lie is as bad as a hundred of them.
I am thankful that I have a trustworthy place to learn about our military's continued involvement in Afghanistan. God knows that the information released via the White House Press Office and directly from our military leaders will be watered down at best and flat out untrue at worst.
36