Several things here concern me:
1. AirBnB provides host insurance secondary to home owners insurance.
2. AirBnB provides no guest insurance.
3. As "rare" as these incidents are, I hear about them all the time, including my own "rare" incident in NYC with a host with over 200 positive reviews. In all instances, it seems like AirBnB is not helpful, but states the same rhetoric about wanting to provide good customer service.
1. AirBnB provides host insurance secondary to home owners insurance.
2. AirBnB provides no guest insurance.
3. As "rare" as these incidents are, I hear about them all the time, including my own "rare" incident in NYC with a host with over 200 positive reviews. In all instances, it seems like AirBnB is not helpful, but states the same rhetoric about wanting to provide good customer service.
1
Isn't the understanding that AirBnB is less expensive because you get less services, less guarantees. I would think your beef would be with the homeowner. In the states you could collect damages from them.
Not that I think there is any excuse for a homeowner inviting people into their house if their dog is not trained, but how could AirBnB possibly know this when they have how many clients. Now that they know about the biting dog, if they continued to allow this person to list their house then they'd be negligent.
Same with Uber. If you want a professional driver call a taxi. If you want to pay less for just somebody with a car, call Uber. Don't expect a professional driver though.
Not that I think there is any excuse for a homeowner inviting people into their house if their dog is not trained, but how could AirBnB possibly know this when they have how many clients. Now that they know about the biting dog, if they continued to allow this person to list their house then they'd be negligent.
Same with Uber. If you want a professional driver call a taxi. If you want to pay less for just somebody with a car, call Uber. Don't expect a professional driver though.
The issue is that Airbnb is supposed to be vetting the hosts and making sure that the listings they are endorsing is legitimate. it is Airbnb's responsibility to make sure that they are not falsely advertising ( since their business is to put host and guest together) or that they are allowing either the guest or host to be put into a dangerous situation. Pets should be one of the things that must be disclosed. There are enough people with allergies out there that this should have been an obvious question. Just like are any drugs, legal or illegal does not have to be specified, consumed on the property and does the host/guest smoke. but then again... they will keep denying responsiblity and rake in the money because people are always trying to find a way to avoid paying for the safety they request.
1
There is a conference I have been wanting to attend. But the hotels in the conference city are extremely expensive. An acquaintance suggested I check out AirBnB or VRBO. No thanks, I said. After reading this and the article today about the young man who went to Spain and was sexually assaulted by his host, I am glad I decided to take a pass on the AirBnB option.
I travelled for three months in the summer of 2014 staying, with the exception of a hotel three or four nights while in transit, in AirBnB rentals. I would say that my stays were 95% positive - a couple of descriptions left out critical information - such as one apartment was a 5th floor walk up but since it said "penthouse" I could have guessed no elevator. Another two places said they were 1 bedrooms with actual kitchens and really were not. We needed the bedroom so I could have a room to shut myself up when playing guitar (and not drive my wife crazy). But all in all, it was way better than staying in hotels, more roomy and much less expensive. In short, no issues. For this trip, we also rented our our own home (not through AirBnB) and returned to a home as clean as we had left it, not to mention doing this paid for over half of our entire trip. But doing this either as a host or guest is a leap of faith - we jumped on that airplane and crossed our fingers that we would have an undamaged home to come back to as well as actual apartments to live in overseas - and we did.
I first used AirBnB when visiting Denver for a reunion. I picked Englewood and had a very good experience. I new what to expect from having worked there many years prior in a prison. I did my gang research and looked around on Google Maps. It was a residential neighborhood in a mostly affluent area and so let people get familiar with me by walking the hosts' Lab mix dog. I also brought an expensive carbon bike around to single that I wasn't some hood. People need to know how to send the right signals and how to make good judgement calls. The host had placed pictures and comments from previous guest on the wall of the room where I had stayed, so I knew place was safer than most. I did not like their relaxed attitude about safety, but I am a New Yorker, so I never let my guard down. In the end, I could not keep my bike in my room, so if it had been stolen from the garage, I would have been out $4000 dollars. So even I made a judgement call that could have cost me.
Amazing how these companies thrive on data, but as soon as someone like mr. Lieber asks for it, they are mum.
Sometimes a hotel is just worth it
Sometimes a hotel is just worth it
1
I had a terrible experience with a hosting company in SF and AirBnB sided with the hosting company, rather than refund my money. I had to call my credit card company to initiate a dispute and book a hotel room with Priceline at the last minute, which turned out to be very nice. I won't be using AirBnB ever again, because I now know that they won't support you--the customer--but will side with the host--their client--instead.
6
Unless there is video footage it is hard to say if Mike stuck his hand in the dog's face or at the other end. If the presence of dog was included in the listing details, does the owner need to include 'please do not tease the dog'. Does the owner also need to include " don't stick your finger in the electrical outlet"? Our vacation home is listed on Airbnb and, after two years, the response has been phenomenal. We have used Airbnb extensively and have go to stay in places which would have otherwise been accessible as well as places furnished with furniture picked up from a recycling center.
I have issues with guests who treat Airbnb listings as cheap hotels and quick to decline such inquiries. Guests need to understand that an Airbnb home is like your own home away from home or your best friend's home. If you are traveling with a family, staying together in a home is priceless than renting multiple rooms in a hotel, But don't expect concierge service if the TV breaks down. Expect the same response time that you will be able to offer to your own family if your TV broke down.
To sum up, if you can not follow common sense rules while staying at a friend's house or don't need the pleasure of meeting new friendly people, stay in a hotel instead. Our host in New Orleans spent an entire day with us taking us to all the museums. 'One less stranger in the world' needs to be the reason for your stay at an Airbnb place and not your quest for the cheapest room in town.
I have issues with guests who treat Airbnb listings as cheap hotels and quick to decline such inquiries. Guests need to understand that an Airbnb home is like your own home away from home or your best friend's home. If you are traveling with a family, staying together in a home is priceless than renting multiple rooms in a hotel, But don't expect concierge service if the TV breaks down. Expect the same response time that you will be able to offer to your own family if your TV broke down.
To sum up, if you can not follow common sense rules while staying at a friend's house or don't need the pleasure of meeting new friendly people, stay in a hotel instead. Our host in New Orleans spent an entire day with us taking us to all the museums. 'One less stranger in the world' needs to be the reason for your stay at an Airbnb place and not your quest for the cheapest room in town.
3
"Guests need to understand that an Airbnb home is like your own home away from home or your best friend's home."
If I suffered the injuries that Mr. Silverman did, at a friends' or a family member's hiome, I would still expect to be compensated.
If I suffered the injuries that Mr. Silverman did, at a friends' or a family member's hiome, I would still expect to be compensated.
10
A hotel concierge has nothing to do with fixing televisions.
I definitely sympathize with Mikes' experience. I am a dog owner, I love dogs, if a dog had acted like Mike reports, I'm fairly certain I would have trusted it as he did. I would have tried to pet it or something stupid too. It just sounds like there were no indications that the dog was a biter, although, rotweillers are big dogs and I have some anxiety around really big dogs. I have used airbnb multiple times in Europe and in the US, and even have plans to use them on a trip coming up and have had excellent experiences. All of these letters have given me pause and I will pay better attention. I know now too, that the company is not going to be helpful if there is a problem.
1
Readers should also know about the hosts' end of AirBNB liability issues. AirBNB headlines a $1 million host guarantee policy. But when a guest damages property, AirBNB shortchanges the homeowner drastically, invokes a clause in the contract that gives it final say on any payment, and before paying makes the homeowner sign a legal commitment not to reveal the either the amount or of the settlement or the fact that there was any settlement. They're very ruthless.
9
One avenue of avoiding unpleasant situations like this is liability of the site for facilitating or turning a blind eye to false claims or omissions in property postings. Tolerating fake or compensated reviews and policies that filter out complaints should trigger real liability.
Property owners are tempted to embellish their properties' features. Air conditioning may turn out to be a fan or a window unit that is broken, high speed internet may be an internet cafe next door.
A site that is in the brokerage business sells an assurance that the person on the other side of the contract is honest. They should be pro-active about compiling a track record of exaggerated claims, significant omissions, and broken promises.
Perhaps a mandatory checklist (air conditioning yes/no, pets on premises yes/no, history of break-ins yes/no, etc.), and a follow-up questionnaire for renters to verify these claims. Discrepancies should be flagged and made available to users, similarly to the star rating system.
Property owners are tempted to embellish their properties' features. Air conditioning may turn out to be a fan or a window unit that is broken, high speed internet may be an internet cafe next door.
A site that is in the brokerage business sells an assurance that the person on the other side of the contract is honest. They should be pro-active about compiling a track record of exaggerated claims, significant omissions, and broken promises.
Perhaps a mandatory checklist (air conditioning yes/no, pets on premises yes/no, history of break-ins yes/no, etc.), and a follow-up questionnaire for renters to verify these claims. Discrepancies should be flagged and made available to users, similarly to the star rating system.
6
Methinks Silverman got what he paid for. Rooms are cheap on Airbnb for a reason...because they don't pay taxes, don't have liability insurance etc etc etc.
If I were Airbnb, I'd tell Silverman to go stick his head where the sun don't shine - because what did Airbnb do other than provide a listing? What if the place was termite invested? Or had bedbugs? Or the house was a cover for drug dealing and he got busted in a raid?
Caveat Emptor.
If I were Airbnb, I'd tell Silverman to go stick his head where the sun don't shine - because what did Airbnb do other than provide a listing? What if the place was termite invested? Or had bedbugs? Or the house was a cover for drug dealing and he got busted in a raid?
Caveat Emptor.
1
so i am assuming that you dont agree with lawsuits brought against a corporation for the actions of one of franchisees? right? because a place like a McDonalds is just using the McDonalds branding ( ie same as a host using the Airbnb's) and is an independent contractor of business.
Airbnb is using their reputation to get hosts rented so they get their portion of the cut. they dont care about what happens afterward becuase they think since they only match up host/guest that means they arent liable for what the host/guest do. But... every day in the US we hold corporations or businesses accountable for the actions of one person who is a part of that entity liable for the individuals actions.
requiring the host to fill out in full a questionaire like: pets, size and breed. smoking, tobacco/pot/vape and then having the guest read and acknowledge it would help Airbnb's distancing.
also setting up secret shoppers to visit some of the hosts that there is questions about or were noted to be wrong. even giving a guest a discount for a full report on the accuracy of the listing would help police their hosts.
Airbnb is using their reputation to get hosts rented so they get their portion of the cut. they dont care about what happens afterward becuase they think since they only match up host/guest that means they arent liable for what the host/guest do. But... every day in the US we hold corporations or businesses accountable for the actions of one person who is a part of that entity liable for the individuals actions.
requiring the host to fill out in full a questionaire like: pets, size and breed. smoking, tobacco/pot/vape and then having the guest read and acknowledge it would help Airbnb's distancing.
also setting up secret shoppers to visit some of the hosts that there is questions about or were noted to be wrong. even giving a guest a discount for a full report on the accuracy of the listing would help police their hosts.
1
Penny-wise and pound foolish. All these cheapo's are knowingly skirting local laws, regulations and taxes yet expect results similar to what is offered in the regulated facilities. That is a huge miscalculation and is really stealing from those that pay taxes and whatever other fees are assessed by the legal businesses.
This is an unfortunate experience but should be a lesson to those thinking about saving a couple of bucks. It often doesn't work out that way.
This is an unfortunate experience but should be a lesson to those thinking about saving a couple of bucks. It often doesn't work out that way.
2
Responsibility of AirBNB is indeed something that is very questionable.
I very recently tried AirBNB for the first time. I rented a whole apartment In Koreatown, Los Angeles for a one month stay.
I checked in as scheduled, but there was no key to be found. The 'host' told me to get into the apt building by sneaking in with another person. That ended up being the building manager.
The next day I left for a long holiday weekend out of state. On my return 4 days later, I found an Eviction Notice on the door and the locks changed!
My belongings were inside, and I stood outside, helpless.
The response from the 'host'? He claimed he didn't know what I was talking about' and it must be a mistake.
The response from AirBNB? That the host had such great reviews, there couldn't possibly be a problem... But there clearly was a legal document on the door and the premised locked out of, not to mention a month's rent paid in advance.
The end result took four days to solve. AirBNB took no responsibility, just sent me a $100 coupon to be applied to a next stay. They did intervene with the 'host' but only by get his agreement that I would cancel the reservation, allowing him to rent out his apartment again. I got most of my funds back, minus the one night stay, but AirBNB took their commission and the cleaning fee was also deducted.
On top of all of that, by canceling I later found out that I couldn't even leave a review on the host's page, warning others of the fraudulent ad.
I very recently tried AirBNB for the first time. I rented a whole apartment In Koreatown, Los Angeles for a one month stay.
I checked in as scheduled, but there was no key to be found. The 'host' told me to get into the apt building by sneaking in with another person. That ended up being the building manager.
The next day I left for a long holiday weekend out of state. On my return 4 days later, I found an Eviction Notice on the door and the locks changed!
My belongings were inside, and I stood outside, helpless.
The response from the 'host'? He claimed he didn't know what I was talking about' and it must be a mistake.
The response from AirBNB? That the host had such great reviews, there couldn't possibly be a problem... But there clearly was a legal document on the door and the premised locked out of, not to mention a month's rent paid in advance.
The end result took four days to solve. AirBNB took no responsibility, just sent me a $100 coupon to be applied to a next stay. They did intervene with the 'host' but only by get his agreement that I would cancel the reservation, allowing him to rent out his apartment again. I got most of my funds back, minus the one night stay, but AirBNB took their commission and the cleaning fee was also deducted.
On top of all of that, by canceling I later found out that I couldn't even leave a review on the host's page, warning others of the fraudulent ad.
19
In my experience, AirBnB is not the low-cost, no-frills option it once was and that many assume that it remains today. There aren't many AirBnB properties in remote regions. They are in established tourist destinations and have adjusted to market pricing. While there are still a lot of low-end options, they are not as cheap as competing hostels. In any significant market, you will have no trouble finding AirBnB properties at $500USD/night. Major international tourist destinations all have $1,000USD+ offerings. AirBnB was never the least expensive option in the places where we used their hospitality. Our primary concerns were amenities (kitchen, wifi), and safety. We have a car full of stuff and like to walk around, so sketchy neighborhoods are out.
Regarding the assumed unaffordability of offering insurance, I own a 2,800 rental property in a pretty nice neighborhood. When I turned it into a rental, the incremental increase in my insurance was $600/yr. About $1.65/day. Allowing for less-than-full occupancy, and passing the cost on completely, this might add $10 to the cost of a three day stay. Unaffordable? A matter of opinion, I suppose.
FWIW, in Argentina, the dog owner is liable. Most owners voluntarily pay. Not in my case. The owner did help us find quality medical care. I'm not going to pursue this through Argentine law. I think it's more important to shed some light on the likely thousands of other AirBnB guests having similar experiences every year.
Regarding the assumed unaffordability of offering insurance, I own a 2,800 rental property in a pretty nice neighborhood. When I turned it into a rental, the incremental increase in my insurance was $600/yr. About $1.65/day. Allowing for less-than-full occupancy, and passing the cost on completely, this might add $10 to the cost of a three day stay. Unaffordable? A matter of opinion, I suppose.
FWIW, in Argentina, the dog owner is liable. Most owners voluntarily pay. Not in my case. The owner did help us find quality medical care. I'm not going to pursue this through Argentine law. I think it's more important to shed some light on the likely thousands of other AirBnB guests having similar experiences every year.
22
"You want quality, you pay for quality."
--My uncle Mo
--My uncle Mo
8
Well, clearly AirBnB can start by implementing a policy that it's mandatory to disclose what pets the landlord has on the premises. Simply from the perspective of allergies, that would make common sense. I'd be horrified to turn up at someone's home only to discover they have a pit bull, large boa constrictor, crocodile, coyote, raccoon, lion cub, or whatever else might be legal in another state or foreign country.
6
Providing a little more context for the Rottweiler attack. We had been at the property for three days. The dog was tied to a post at the back of the stairs leading up to the rental apartment. He was in the guest access area. In the time that we had been there, the dog had barely moved. Mostly, he slept. He never growled, barked, raised his hackles, or gave any indication of aggression, despite lots of stimulation in the environment. Every once in a while he lifted his head and looked around. My wife asked the owner if he was her pet, and she said yes. As far we knew, he was a somewhat lazy family pet. He had seen us at least10 times before I extended my hand to him without any interest. So, color me stupid for extending my hand to the dog, but perhaps use a slightly lighter shade.
Is AirBnB simply an online marketplace, or a hospitality brand? Open to question I suppose, but, as I outlined below, I’m clearly in the hospitality brand camp.
I would really urge people to think beyond my specific situation. AirBnB has over 1,000,000 listings. If each listing averages 100 days of occupancy/year (less than half typical hospitality occupancy), that’s over 100 million nights of occupancy. If the accident rate is .01% (99.99% of all stays go swimmingly), that’s 10,000 incidents per year. Ethical businesses proactively take steps to minimize harm to their customers. Unethical ones don’t.
Is AirBnB simply an online marketplace, or a hospitality brand? Open to question I suppose, but, as I outlined below, I’m clearly in the hospitality brand camp.
I would really urge people to think beyond my specific situation. AirBnB has over 1,000,000 listings. If each listing averages 100 days of occupancy/year (less than half typical hospitality occupancy), that’s over 100 million nights of occupancy. If the accident rate is .01% (99.99% of all stays go swimmingly), that’s 10,000 incidents per year. Ethical businesses proactively take steps to minimize harm to their customers. Unethical ones don’t.
34
For your own future knowledge, stepping the space of a breed of adult dog such as a Rottweiler, German Shepherd or any potentially assertive not necessarily aggressive dog breed is a big no no for anyone. The dog ignored you earlier because you did not enter his space, in this case, anything on his end of the rope. My wife's mother made the same ignorant mistake many years ago when she stepped in to pet a tied dog (a German Shepherd) who greeted her with wagging tail as she passed by many times before - she was seriously bitten. All dogs sleep most of the day if not stimulated - you can never assume a sleeping or quiet dog is "lazy" or "sluggish". Dogs don't like being awakened or bothered by strangers and especially strangers who may be hovering over them. And always ask the owner if it's ok to pet - before you do - you said you asked if the dog was the owner's pet not if it was ok to touch. It always amazes me how much people, including dog owners, do NOT know (or sometimes want to know) about dog behavior.
1
I can't fault you in your interaction with the dog. It certainly sounds like you were reasonable.
But if AirBnB has over one million listings how can you expect them to vouch for the safety and reliability of each and every of them.
But if AirBnB has over one million listings how can you expect them to vouch for the safety and reliability of each and every of them.
Reading these comments is a fascinating exercise. No one emphasizes that the cost of liability insurance that legitimate lodgings in the hospitality industry pays makes it difficult for them to compete with "the sharing economy" Airbnb. When was the last time you truly feared a dog bite, burglary, fire danger, etc. etc. at a hotel or legitimate bed and breakfast? Lodgings that comply with all state regulations protect you from all that. (For one thing, they don't have Rottweilers roaming around the halls, they will make right anything that might be stolen and they adhere to strict fire prevention rules.) But there is a price for that protection, for them and therefore for you. If you read the details of the founding of Airbnb, you'll realize that it was nothing but a few naive entrepreneurs sitting around thinking, "Gee, we can make money on this," with no real understanding of risk----the risk that licensed or legitimate lodgings take every day---to protect YOU. Think this is a panacea for people who want to earn money and beat out legit hotels and bed and breakfasts? Think again. It's a company cutting important corners to make money, and it's really 'buyer beware' and 'seller beware' out there.
9
It looks like Mr Silverman was perfectly fine until when he was the receiver of all the benefits of AirBnB business model. He did a pretty stupid thing (lesson #1 my mommy taught - avoid strangers, humans and dogs alike) and now wants someone else to stick up for him? It seems an incredible lack of personal responsibility and the sad litigation model that fortunately didn't arrive yet in Latin America. I hope AirBnB will win this one.
What if Silverman had killed the dog upon finding that an undisclosed vicious animal had been left in the propery he had contracted to live in? Would Airbnb have compensated the owner? Could Argentine law have come after Silverman in the States after the owner returned to find the dead animal?
1
These issues of liability and insurance are so pertinent in this new world of AirBnB. I think it's important there be a platform for hosts and guests to discuss these issues that arise in this new and evolving business. I have found an open forum where hosts and guests can share their experiences and opinion at http://bedmaybebreakfast.com - Although AirBnB offers hosts a community, it is 1) Not public 2) Run by the company itself and 3) Lacking in software funciton. This new forum opens up the possibilities for communication between AirBnB users. Hope to see you there - I am Matt S.
1
This is - unfortunately - a case of biting the hand that feeds. Mike Silverman's experience is unfortunate and I sympathize; but his argument is absurdist gibberish.
At once he wants the no frills, authentic, independent travel experience and find places in the middle of nowhere and anywhere en route - and then demands - demands - that the exchange operator sorts out his woes, and if not, move to the standards of the very insipid hotel franchise model he paid less to precisely avoid.
Robert Hughes wrote in Culture of Complaint - 'Americans have become precious whiners, sullen and irresponsible, pursuing an all-pervasive claim to victimhood.’
We have come so far for nothing.
At once he wants the no frills, authentic, independent travel experience and find places in the middle of nowhere and anywhere en route - and then demands - demands - that the exchange operator sorts out his woes, and if not, move to the standards of the very insipid hotel franchise model he paid less to precisely avoid.
Robert Hughes wrote in Culture of Complaint - 'Americans have become precious whiners, sullen and irresponsible, pursuing an all-pervasive claim to victimhood.’
We have come so far for nothing.
3
I am surprised by how many comments are against airbnb. I have stayed numerous times in various countries (for work and pleasure) and have had fantastic experiences. While staying in San Francisco I always get charged some hotel type tax, but I go there for work regularly & always stay in a different one all the time. I have not had any run ins with animals.
I have, however, stayed in hotels in the developing world (pre-airbnb days), and had numerous run ins with animals (4 legged and the human kind) that were quite disturbing. No one reimbursed me anything when my hotel in India was broken into and stuff stolen. At some point, we, as consumers, need to be informed. There is always the Hilton if we want the same experience and rules we have here.
I have, however, stayed in hotels in the developing world (pre-airbnb days), and had numerous run ins with animals (4 legged and the human kind) that were quite disturbing. No one reimbursed me anything when my hotel in India was broken into and stuff stolen. At some point, we, as consumers, need to be informed. There is always the Hilton if we want the same experience and rules we have here.
4
So, if Mr. Silverman had launched himself over the balcony of the property, would AirBnB be responsible for his medical care? I realize that reaching out to a docile looking dog seems harmless, but it is incredibly risky to reach over an unfamiliar dog's head to touch him or her. Unfortunately, dogs often get the bad rap in these situations, rather than the humans who should know better. I'm sympathetic to Mr. Silverman for his injuries, but don't think anyone else is to blame but himself.
2
Airbnb does not merely ignore local regulations. They deliberately enable their customers/clients, 99% who are non-professionals, to violate local laws. In NYC, the attorney general found the majority of listings to be illegal. Plus Airbnb completely ignores one very large group of people in NYC, the neighbors of hosts who live in the same building as the host, who are subjected to gross violations for safety codes and the creation of nuisances such as noise and use of common areas that devalues the their property. How about writing about that.
17
Let's include VRBO/Homeaway in this discussion. Caveat emptor is the rule here as well. We reserved and paid for a 3-night stay in a Costa Rican VRBO property four months ahead of the February 2015 arrival date. Three days prior to our departure, the host cancelled our booking and refunded our payment. Reason? An "unavoidable overbooking situation". REALLY?
It turns out the host had recently raised her minimum stay from two nights to seven, and cancelled us in hopes of getting a longer booking. VRBO was no help at all. The host is still listing on VRBO, despite a rep's assurance that the host would be penalized in some unknown fashion; citing "privacy laws", she would not divulge the punishment. We tried a phantom booking after we arrived in Costa Rica and the host was willing to rent to us--for seven nights minimum--on our original arrival date. No trip insurance I know of would have made us whole for this, and VRBO offered absolutely nothing in compensation.
It turns out the host had recently raised her minimum stay from two nights to seven, and cancelled us in hopes of getting a longer booking. VRBO was no help at all. The host is still listing on VRBO, despite a rep's assurance that the host would be penalized in some unknown fashion; citing "privacy laws", she would not divulge the punishment. We tried a phantom booking after we arrived in Costa Rica and the host was willing to rent to us--for seven nights minimum--on our original arrival date. No trip insurance I know of would have made us whole for this, and VRBO offered absolutely nothing in compensation.
11
This is interesting to me. My husband got amoebic dysentery on a trek in Peru. we just paid for our medical because we knew they American standard for liability is not normal in other parts of the world. If we start expecting compensation for injuries, we can forget low prices because the owners will have to build that in. The whole point of Airbnb is to hold costs down and create a sharing economy. Exporting American culture will interfere with this. Also in Latin America dogs are rarely pets, they are kept for protection and tend to be more dangerous. When we lived down in Mexico everyone was afraid of our dog who was a total sweetheart because they are enculturated to fear dogs for good reason. I am very sorry about this accident.
6
Why is the sharing economy not as great as its believers claim, why is it so controversial, and what should and shouldn’t we do about it? See http://worksnewage.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-sharing-economy-and-jobs-ii.....
What a bizarre article. Questions about airbnb's responsibility? There are none. Airbnb has zero responsibility in this case. Questions about the hosts responsibility? Strangely left unmentioned in the article since 100% of the responsibility is theirs.
Airbnb is not providing lodging or a guarantee of safety. They provide server space where those providing lodging and guests seeking lodging connect. These entities are responsible for their spaces and behavior.
Airbnb is not providing lodging or a guarantee of safety. They provide server space where those providing lodging and guests seeking lodging connect. These entities are responsible for their spaces and behavior.
2
Insurance coverage is the reason I will not take uber rides. That companies' default for compensation in the event of an accident is to defraud one's own insurance company and if they won't cover expenses uber might.
I would rather have the insurance company for a licensed taxi company cover damages legitimately.
I would rather have the insurance company for a licensed taxi company cover damages legitimately.
4
AirBNB is structured as a broker only and their website is very cleverly
designed to avoid negative reviews.
As I found out on a recent trip to Malaga, Spain, photos lie...even those purported to have been taken by an AIR BNB photographer.
The apartment was located in an unlit side alley, and had been used hard. The interiors in the AIR BNB photo showed a bright, sunny space with modern furniture. Not the reality we found.
Needless to say when my daughter and I saw this place, we immediately indicated to the host that we would not stay there. No refund. Instead, when we contacted AIR BNB the option of a cancellation automatically precluded the opportunity for a review.
Luckily we found a delightful hotel very nearby for not much more. We will be staying in hotels from now on.
designed to avoid negative reviews.
As I found out on a recent trip to Malaga, Spain, photos lie...even those purported to have been taken by an AIR BNB photographer.
The apartment was located in an unlit side alley, and had been used hard. The interiors in the AIR BNB photo showed a bright, sunny space with modern furniture. Not the reality we found.
Needless to say when my daughter and I saw this place, we immediately indicated to the host that we would not stay there. No refund. Instead, when we contacted AIR BNB the option of a cancellation automatically precluded the opportunity for a review.
Luckily we found a delightful hotel very nearby for not much more. We will be staying in hotels from now on.
8
I have used AirBnB on three occasions. The first was a private home in Oakland that was left for the "guest" with dishes in the kitchen sink, an unmade bed and a note about letting the cat in. I was with my adult son and we just made the best of it, did some basic cleaning, and to be honest, it was a great location and no harm done. Second rental was again in Oakland (Rockridge, the "high" end). It was a dismal experience. The "sun-filled yard" was knee high in weeds, the table available for "morning coffee in the sun" was buried under debris filled black plastic garbage bags, and the owner's small dog had full access to the guest room which stank of doggy BO. I wrote a review pointing out the discrepancies in the listing and the reality. I did note the location perfect and the room clean. The owner responded to the review by attacking me personally - wow, one of her barbs was I was "too old" to appreciate the AirBnB experience. So take that little old lady. Twice I've had bookings canceled within days of my arrival but in each of those instances the host offered to find me alternate accommodations.
Bottom line - you get what you pay for and you take your chances.
My advice - travel with lowered expectations, be prepared to change plans, consider it all part of the adventure, and NEVER leave home without travel insurance.
Bottom line - you get what you pay for and you take your chances.
My advice - travel with lowered expectations, be prepared to change plans, consider it all part of the adventure, and NEVER leave home without travel insurance.
11
Regarding your experience in Oakland, yup, sounds like Oakland.
Not very charming citizens in that city.
Avoid it! Ick!
Not very charming citizens in that city.
Avoid it! Ick!
I hope your next travel experience in Oakland is a positive one!
Sounds like a good reason to avoid Airbnb unless they come up with a way of covering this kind of risk EVEN WHEN the victim is not so lucky as to have a New York Times article written about their situation.
1
“Sheila” (see above) is correct. It’s odd that the article said nothing about travel insurance (which can cover not just trip cancellations but also medical mishaps). Was Mr. Silverman unaware of its availability? Even if he was, is that the fault of Airbnb? Airbnb is not--contrary to Mr. Silverman's assertion---like a "franchised hotel structure." How is Airbnb, as a “market maker,” any different from eBay? Indeed, would the NY Times be liable in the same circumstances if it had “earned money” by publishing a homeowner’s ad for a weekend rental? That said, Airbnb would be well advised so suggest to “Guests” that they consider purchasing travel insurance, and it probably will amend its “Terms and Conditions” to do so. True, such insurance typically would not cover "pain and suffering," but medical bills obviously could run far more than the $1,000 or less that Mr. Silverman's unfortunate incident cost him.
1
Last summer, we stayed at a Marriott, and while it had fire exits it also had bedbugs. They offered us $100 for the 'inconvenience' but claimed that because no one else had reported the bugs, they were not responsible for any of our (far more substantial) out of pocket medical and eradication costs.
7
My husband and I host guests through airbnb in our guest house (separate from our home) and have a (friendly) dog that is often in the backyard. It's vital that hosts not only share the fact that a dog might be present, but also post a picture of the dog so that guests who are afraid of larger dogs or certain breeds of dog don't book. Transparency is very important. Also, every host should have an umbrella policy to cover any injuries. Not having insurance is irresponsible. That could be something that airbnb demands of their hosts in the future. In my opinion, in this case, the host should cover all medical expenses. The host is responsible for the guests' security and safety. As for stolen items, that's a grey area, but a good host should be willing to cover the costs of those items. In response to a comment below where a guest broke a chair and was asked to reimburse the host, we've had guests break all sorts of things in the house, including a new bed. They should not be charged (unless it's brazen vandalism, but we've not experienced anything of that sort). It's just part of doing (good) business. We've stayed in aribnbs all over the world, and have had great experiences. We've had terrific guests over the years, with only one bad experience that was annoying, not dangerous or harmful. It's up to the guests and hosts to do their due diligence.
2
And now they have announced an expansion into the Cuban market, a place where for several decades there has been no home improvement or construction activity of any kind, but there has been much avarice on the part of a poor population that lives on meagre salaries.
Add the fact that most decent homes in the island may be part of the inventory of nationalized properties taken over by the communist government since the start of the revolution and lived by folks who "invaded" them, and you can predict what can happen when former owners "show up" in the country trying to collect a "commission" from the new "hoteliers." Adding insult to injury will be fodder for the new state of Cuban affairs, and as for injuries themselves, expect no compassion.
Add the fact that most decent homes in the island may be part of the inventory of nationalized properties taken over by the communist government since the start of the revolution and lived by folks who "invaded" them, and you can predict what can happen when former owners "show up" in the country trying to collect a "commission" from the new "hoteliers." Adding insult to injury will be fodder for the new state of Cuban affairs, and as for injuries themselves, expect no compassion.
4
The problem with Airbnb is communications. If you have a problem or dispute with an owner, and the owner is unresponsive you cannot reach Airbnb by phone. They will not answer the phone, no matter how hard you try to reach them.
I arrived at an Airbnb apartment in Paris, I had already paid $1800 as payment in full for ten days stay. The owner told me to get the keys from the next-door neighbor. I found the apartment totally unsatisfactory, dirty, unfurnished and in an unsafe neighborhood - taxis would not pick you up there unless you walked five blocks to a big intersection.
So at 4 PM we are standing there in this unsatisfactory apartment, having already paid for it. The owner did not answer the phone. Airbnb would not answer the phone. After one hour trying to reach someone, I decided to leave and find a hotel. Luckiny I could book one on booking.com. We had to lug our bags 5 blocks uphill to where a taxi could get us.
Luckily I had paid with American Express, who temporarily removed the charge and challenged it with Airbnb. Airbnb would never answer the phone. They would reply to an email, after two days, giving me a chance to "review their service." I had to state my problem in this manner and await their decision. They never sent me a decision, but also never re-instated the charge on Amex. So for two months I didn't know.
If you use Airbnb, you must use Amex, not Visa or Master, where challenging a charge is very difficult or impossible.
I arrived at an Airbnb apartment in Paris, I had already paid $1800 as payment in full for ten days stay. The owner told me to get the keys from the next-door neighbor. I found the apartment totally unsatisfactory, dirty, unfurnished and in an unsafe neighborhood - taxis would not pick you up there unless you walked five blocks to a big intersection.
So at 4 PM we are standing there in this unsatisfactory apartment, having already paid for it. The owner did not answer the phone. Airbnb would not answer the phone. After one hour trying to reach someone, I decided to leave and find a hotel. Luckiny I could book one on booking.com. We had to lug our bags 5 blocks uphill to where a taxi could get us.
Luckily I had paid with American Express, who temporarily removed the charge and challenged it with Airbnb. Airbnb would never answer the phone. They would reply to an email, after two days, giving me a chance to "review their service." I had to state my problem in this manner and await their decision. They never sent me a decision, but also never re-instated the charge on Amex. So for two months I didn't know.
If you use Airbnb, you must use Amex, not Visa or Master, where challenging a charge is very difficult or impossible.
14
At the very least, people should be advised if a host has a dog, or other pets for that matter. Some people are terribly allergic for one thing. But large, protective dogs can be dangerous.
I hope Mike Silverman recovers completely!
I hope Mike Silverman recovers completely!
2
The writer neglects to mention that the contract (rental agreement) you sign is not with Airbnb. It is made directly with the owner of the property. It is prudent to actually read the contract prior to signing.
The writer also neglects to mention what transpired when, and if, Mr. Silverman asked for reimbursement from the family he rented from.
As I mentioned before I have had only wonderful experiences with Airbnb rentals. It has enabled me to travel in comfort on a budget. I believe the local economies have benefited greatly from the tourists airbnb bring into an area.
The writer also neglects to mention what transpired when, and if, Mr. Silverman asked for reimbursement from the family he rented from.
As I mentioned before I have had only wonderful experiences with Airbnb rentals. It has enabled me to travel in comfort on a budget. I believe the local economies have benefited greatly from the tourists airbnb bring into an area.
4
Airbnb was a great idea whose time had come. I'm an Airbnb host and have had mainly great experiences with my guests, and have used Airbnb in Istanbul as guest. But since I started hosting in 2010, the hands-on earnestness of the company has been eroded by slicker websites, and corporate deafness to users, hosts and guests alike. It's past time, especially given their profits, to provide better protection for hosts and guests for the inevitable mishaps and accidents that can occur.
26
Airbnb is not in the hospitality business - it is in the business of operating a website that connects people who want to rent someone else's room or apartment and those with accommodations to share. Forcing Airbnb to take on the liability of a hotel will help kill this opportunity for renters and those seeking lodgings from private individuals. Why wouldn't the issue of liability simply be between the guest and the person providing the lodging? Why wouldn't a disclaimer to that effect be all that is needed. If this level of risk is not acceptable, customers can seek lodging through the traditional hospitality industry.
6
Wow.
Caveat Emptor, remember?
But we don't want government regulation even inside the US, do we? Cause we can all rely on our food providers to prevent epidemic infections and we can trust our fracking oil and gas providers to care about their disposal well induced earthquakes. And there was no evidence ever that cigarette smoking was related to cancer, emphysema, etc.. This is unfettered capitalism at its best. At its norm.
Grow up. You want a free-market solution? Get a free-market remedy.
Or get on board with a regulated business.
Caveat Emptor, remember?
But we don't want government regulation even inside the US, do we? Cause we can all rely on our food providers to prevent epidemic infections and we can trust our fracking oil and gas providers to care about their disposal well induced earthquakes. And there was no evidence ever that cigarette smoking was related to cancer, emphysema, etc.. This is unfettered capitalism at its best. At its norm.
Grow up. You want a free-market solution? Get a free-market remedy.
Or get on board with a regulated business.
1
On the question of whether AirBnB is in the hospitality business:
a) They actively seek to brand themselves as a hospitality brand (when you stay with them, they don’t want you to say “I stayed at Susie’s place,” they want you to say “I stayed at an AirBnB place”…and most guests do
b) They contract directly with property owners to provide hospitality services under the AirBnB brand
c) They actively market those, and only those, properties under the AirBnB brand
d) They accept direct payment from guests to stay at their branded properties – the guests pay AirBnB, not the contractor
e) They pay their contractors for allowing AirBnB guests to occupy AirBnB contracted properties
f) They report those payments to governments as required by law for tax purposes
Sounds like a hospitality business to me.
I find the notion that people sure insure themselves for possible injuries they might receive from the products and services they purchase really curious. How far do you extend this notion? All businesses should be exempt from all liability, and all individuals should cover themselves? Or, only service businesses should be exempt from liability? Or only brokers? Or only ‘shared economy’ businesses? Remember the USA housing crisis and worldwide economic collapse? Those banks and brokerage houses didn’t force anyone to buy the mortgage-backed securities. All they did was create a market and fail to adequately disclose the risk. Sound familiar? A matter of opinion, of course.
a) They actively seek to brand themselves as a hospitality brand (when you stay with them, they don’t want you to say “I stayed at Susie’s place,” they want you to say “I stayed at an AirBnB place”…and most guests do
b) They contract directly with property owners to provide hospitality services under the AirBnB brand
c) They actively market those, and only those, properties under the AirBnB brand
d) They accept direct payment from guests to stay at their branded properties – the guests pay AirBnB, not the contractor
e) They pay their contractors for allowing AirBnB guests to occupy AirBnB contracted properties
f) They report those payments to governments as required by law for tax purposes
Sounds like a hospitality business to me.
I find the notion that people sure insure themselves for possible injuries they might receive from the products and services they purchase really curious. How far do you extend this notion? All businesses should be exempt from all liability, and all individuals should cover themselves? Or, only service businesses should be exempt from liability? Or only brokers? Or only ‘shared economy’ businesses? Remember the USA housing crisis and worldwide economic collapse? Those banks and brokerage houses didn’t force anyone to buy the mortgage-backed securities. All they did was create a market and fail to adequately disclose the risk. Sound familiar? A matter of opinion, of course.
3
"trying to deny the type of business they are in" is the business model! Provide everything a travel site provides, but take no actual responsibility for the product.
UBER has the same issues with insurance.
UBER has the same issues with insurance.
4
We have stayed in apartments we've found through Airbnb just twice and each time have had oustanding experiences - hostesses or landladies that went out of their way to make us feel welcome, moderate-priced housing close to the centers of ciities. They can't all be this good, but I do feel Airbnb offers people with modest means a chance to travel and really experience a new place, get to know the neighborhoods, shop at local markets, get to know the people. More bang for your buck than you'll ever get at Motel 6! At the same time I feel sorry for what happened to the gentleman who was attacked by the dog, but would only say I'd never trust certain breeds of dogs before I'd been "properly introduced" by their owner. Odd that the owner of a rottweiler would rent his or her place out to strangers. And Airbnb was certainly negligent until called on by the NYTimes writer.
1
AirBnB has become a disaster as it expanded to rental non occupied properties. I recently rented a house in Thailand with electrical problems, no internet as listed, major road construction next door and no available contact or orientation from the manager. It was a mess! After extended correspondence, Airbnb negotiated a limited refund. I was almost electrocuted. The property was never inspected. All wiring and water came through plastic tubing. To my knowledge, the listing is still up.
I stay in apartment shares in Europe with Airbnb. No problem. Now they are another irresponsible vacant property realtor!
I stay in apartment shares in Europe with Airbnb. No problem. Now they are another irresponsible vacant property realtor!
I don't know, you kind of have to assume some risk by staying at a stranger's property. If Airbnb provided and/or managed the properties, it's one thing, but they just provide a platform that connects people to accommodations. I think they did all the right things by removing the listing, and refunding his stay. If that were me I wouldn't go to Airbnb asking for compensation, it'd be my fault for approaching the dog that I haven't had experience with. If anything I'd go after the homeowner, but I don't see why Aribnb would have any responsibility in it.
2
That says it all: these services make billions without much risk. The risk is distributed to the users. That isn't the case with hotels, taxis, and other traditional services who carry liability insurance. It'll come down to whether users in aggregate think the risk is worth it; so far they do.
It's kind of like the banks, or other large firms, during the great recession. They profited mightily from the dubious transactions, but the risk was off-loaded to the taxpayers who bailed them out.
It's kind of like the banks, or other large firms, during the great recession. They profited mightily from the dubious transactions, but the risk was off-loaded to the taxpayers who bailed them out.
2
I've stayed at airbnb places for years, the last time was probably in 2013. I'm a millennial, part of their target demo. I first started using them and other house rentals in 09 or 10 I think. Needed a place to stay in Austin for sxsw and the cost of a hotel during that time is around 600-800 bucks a night. Great experience, since a lot of Austin properties are rented out during festival season. The owners will leave you beer, wine, maps and list of recommendations.
Did it two years in a row. Then in 2012 I had to use it for a work trip in down town la trip and all the hotels were full. Rented an apt in a luxury building, the guy was so shady. Told us if anyone ask we are just his friends visiting. The apt was dirty, he had lubricant out and no iron. Stayed in a place in Korea town in Los Angeles, awesome experience. The host is a TV personality and made sure we had soap, lotions, and everything else to make us at home.
It really is a hit or miss With airbnb. I use it when needed. The company should be held responsible for the problems of places being listed. They operate a poor man's hotel service. On the other hand I've heard of people's places being used for porn sets, and other crazy things.
Did it two years in a row. Then in 2012 I had to use it for a work trip in down town la trip and all the hotels were full. Rented an apt in a luxury building, the guy was so shady. Told us if anyone ask we are just his friends visiting. The apt was dirty, he had lubricant out and no iron. Stayed in a place in Korea town in Los Angeles, awesome experience. The host is a TV personality and made sure we had soap, lotions, and everything else to make us at home.
It really is a hit or miss With airbnb. I use it when needed. The company should be held responsible for the problems of places being listed. They operate a poor man's hotel service. On the other hand I've heard of people's places being used for porn sets, and other crazy things.
I have a rented on airbnb, as host and guest in the past. Their customer service has declined, from stellar in the website's formative years to deplorable in the last few years. Airbnb's customer service responses are patronizingly polite and passive aggressive to deflect any responsibility. The company has become like any other big corporation, heartless, operating legally but not ethically. This is highlighted in this article, they blew off Mr. Silverman's initial emails but only changed their response when a NYT reporter inquired on his behalf.
8
It's a decent gesture for Airbnb to pay for Silverman's medical bills, which, as he notes, were small --- but I'd actually like to see hosts and guests accept more responsibility, not less, for their own safety and security. I do believe in the value of insurance, but I also think that hosts and guests need to step up and develop the skillset to make intelligent choices -- the guests, about where to stay (or where to leave, if they show up and there's a big dog on the premises which they were not told about), and the hosts, about who to accept as guests. Did this listing, where Mr. SIlverman stayed, have any reviews from previous guests? Did they mention a dog? THese are things a guest needs to look into before booking a place.
Something I haven't seen mentioned in any of the comments here, is that Airbnb will fully refund a guest, if upon arriving at the place they are to stay, there is a serious problem or undisclosed "issue" with the place -- and the fact that the host has a large dog that he hasn't disclosed may well qualify for such a refund. Airbnb also will help a guest in that kind of situation find an alternative place to stay.
Rather than not use Airbnb because you've heard one bad story, why not just look for a place that has many reviews, many good reviews from satisfied guests.
Accidents do happen -- but people still drive cars.
Something I haven't seen mentioned in any of the comments here, is that Airbnb will fully refund a guest, if upon arriving at the place they are to stay, there is a serious problem or undisclosed "issue" with the place -- and the fact that the host has a large dog that he hasn't disclosed may well qualify for such a refund. Airbnb also will help a guest in that kind of situation find an alternative place to stay.
Rather than not use Airbnb because you've heard one bad story, why not just look for a place that has many reviews, many good reviews from satisfied guests.
Accidents do happen -- but people still drive cars.
12
Covering the expenses incurred by a guest due to negligence by the host is not the real problem. That is easily solved by traveller's insurance. The real problem is that the information is censored. Airbnb nullifies the unhappy experience so that there are no honest reviews to forewarn future victims.
8
Really cool Airbnb has created a thriving business that help's those who may need income. I would not consider using the service due to what I perceive to be high risk whether or not an animal resides in the home. I hope Mr. Silverman's recovery is speedy and uneventful.
3
The sole basis of lower prices in the "sharing" economy is the avoidance of insurance and taxes. Everyone knows it, including the well-educated and well-off consumers of AirBnB, Uber, etc.
17
This is exactly what scams like Airbnb should not be permitted. It puts customers and neighbors at risk and the company making all the money has no risk, no obligations whatsoever. People are cheap and want to work outside the law and then they think wait a minute this bad thing happened to me why won't anyone help me. Don't support illegal hoteliers or Airbnb. I don't want illegal hotel stays in my building and I shouldn't have to put up with it.
24
If it's illegal, then why isn't anyone in jail?
The worst thing that happened to me when using Airbnb in Palm Springs was finding a pair of women's underwear crumpled up at the foot of the bed when I crawled in at night. Ewww. Obviously the linen had not been changed. Buyer (or in this case, renter) beware.
11
Eww indeed. I hope you mentioned that in the guest review -- that's the way to help future potential renters. That's the risk we incur for the fabulous price and character of airbnb rentals. I've used airbnb several times, and once or twice it's been a bit "icky" -- but so far, the trade-off has been worth it.
When you do business with a low-cost provider, don't expect much in amenities.
8
My wife and I have stayed in AirBnB listed homes in Italy, Belize, Coronado, New York, Tucson, New Orleans, San Diego, Chicago, and others. Our experience has been wonderful without exception. The benefits of staying in a neighborhood, free parking, a kitchen, wifi, and local tips from a host are invaluable. In navigating while traveling one must of course be aware and alert to risks and take the appropriate precautions.
Of course this host should have indicated a rotweiller was on the premises; that said, would it have prevented Mr. Silverman from renting there?
Of course this host should have indicated a rotweiller was on the premises; that said, would it have prevented Mr. Silverman from renting there?
6
That free parking was meant for neighborhood residents who pay for it through taxes, rents, and mortgages.
"would it have prevented Mr. Silverman from renting there?"
Probably not. But a warning that the dog bites may have.
Probably not. But a warning that the dog bites may have.
I used to stay with Air BnB when it first started out and it was ok.
The last 4 or 5 times I've tried to book there have been too many problems.
"I am out of town, oh I forgot to block the calender. We're expecting a baby and not doing ABnB right now. The people staying in the room decided to stay longer." Etc.
Sometimes the hosts don't respond at all or cancel last minute.
I find it much easier and secure to book and stay in a hotel or inn. Too much run around and general flakiness.
As far as animals go, ALL renters should be required to say whether or not there are animals of any kind on or around the premises. Especially when travelling with children or if you're allergy prone. Squawking birds anyone?
The last 4 or 5 times I've tried to book there have been too many problems.
"I am out of town, oh I forgot to block the calender. We're expecting a baby and not doing ABnB right now. The people staying in the room decided to stay longer." Etc.
Sometimes the hosts don't respond at all or cancel last minute.
I find it much easier and secure to book and stay in a hotel or inn. Too much run around and general flakiness.
As far as animals go, ALL renters should be required to say whether or not there are animals of any kind on or around the premises. Especially when travelling with children or if you're allergy prone. Squawking birds anyone?
17
Problems with accountability, liability, and safety in the so-called sharing economy are inevitable because every concept, be it transport, lodging, or whatever else pops up next, relies on a level of trust that only exists in small, homogenous groups of people. Once a service grows beyond its initial, usually upper middle-class hipster, set of users, the assumptions that anchor the presumption of commonality with drivers, boarding house operators, and other service providers no longer apply.
Uber and Lyft, for example, are really just gigantic, open-to-anybody versions of university student union bulletin boards. The big difference is that while students can use their shared membership in the college community as a basis for trust, people riding in a car sporting a bright pink moustache now most likely have nothing in common with the car's operator.
This is why cities and states regulate hotels and taxis. "Sharing economy" companies, despite their veneer of modernity and efficiency, are actually turning back the clock to a time when caveat emptor applied to virtually every transaction, large or small.
Sad.
Uber and Lyft, for example, are really just gigantic, open-to-anybody versions of university student union bulletin boards. The big difference is that while students can use their shared membership in the college community as a basis for trust, people riding in a car sporting a bright pink moustache now most likely have nothing in common with the car's operator.
This is why cities and states regulate hotels and taxis. "Sharing economy" companies, despite their veneer of modernity and efficiency, are actually turning back the clock to a time when caveat emptor applied to virtually every transaction, large or small.
Sad.
99
Not turning back the clock, but ushering is into a better world.
Wow, what a good point. Food for thought!
I am a frequent user of airbandb from the beginning and found there was a commonality with the renter. As the service expands that disappears. Will airbandb be able to continue to provide the structure of a community? That will be hard to do but that is what the sharing economy is all about. Without the community aspect I don't think I will continue using it.
I am a frequent user of airbandb from the beginning and found there was a commonality with the renter. As the service expands that disappears. Will airbandb be able to continue to provide the structure of a community? That will be hard to do but that is what the sharing economy is all about. Without the community aspect I don't think I will continue using it.
I have used Airbnb on three occasions, and it has been good, generally. However, as an employee of an international organisation, I suspect it's not that great for work-related travel. Security and safety rules apply to us, and I did get a little worried in one East Asian apartment, which required three doors to be unlocked to leave the property. Fire? Explosion? Probably my organisation needs to put rules in place around this. Yes, you do get what you pay for.
7
I've had only wonderful experiences with airbnb. It performs one function and it does it very well. It introduces potential renters to available properties.
3
It's interesting how far Airbnb is going to insure protections for hosts but not guests. My family recently stayed in an Airbnb in Los Angeles that was burglarized. The "hosts" lost nothing, but we lost $550 worth of electronics (iPad/camera). The host has not offered to cover our losses through their home-owners insurance, and Airbnb has made it clear that it's not their responsibility. Clearly our suffering is far, far, less than that of Mr. Silverman, but it did cause me to review the language of Airbnb's terms available on its website. I don't see anything related to guest security and safety - not even a "common sense" directive to secure traveler's insurance. Making safe connections for Hosts is evidently Airbnb's only priority.
70
The host can't cover you loses through his homeowners insurance because he would probably be cancelled if they found out what he was doing. What you were doing is illegal,
12
Why would you think, even remotely, that the AirBnB host would reimburse you of your loss from the burglary? Yes, they have homeowners insurance, but what is the host going to tell the insurer, that my AirBnB patrons lose their valuables in my house? Before the insurer would even look at what's lost, they would cancel that policy rightaway.
My wife recently changed her credit card to one that covers losses when traveling at no annual fee - we did not have it on our last long journey and luckily had nothing stolen although I did lose my IPhone on a train from Paris to Lyon! I think travel insurance should be the responsibility of the traveler not the host. Sadly, we feel and probably are more unsafe where we live than in any city we stayed in during our travels. It was so nice to be able to walk around in European cities at night without the daily concerns of being robbed.
A complex issue. I am on the side of Mr. Silverman. If Airbnb accepts a listing, then they should bear some responsibility for the veracity of the listing, or else offer their own travel insurance to hosts/guests. Or require hosts to either pay for injuries due to their negligent listing information, or pay into a fund to cover these sorts of things. But Airbnb has plenty of money to provide for these kinds of extraordinary occurrences. The host should really be the one liable since they failed to disclose a major element of their listing; omitting the fact that there is a (big) dog there (who bites).
Unfortunately Airbnb doesn't always do the right thing by its hosts/guests, until the news media gets involved. The way they dealt with it was disappointing.
To those who think that hotels are somehow more safe, think again. Bedbugs are rampant in hotels; so is theft & crime. My brother recently booked a 4-star hotel in Cambodia via Travelocity; it turned out to be in the middle of construction without a lobby, working elevator, etc.
I don't understand the rancor towards Airbnb. For many decades people have been renting rooms out in their homes. This goes on in every US college and resort town! Those hosts don't have insurance, inspections, fire escapes etc. - all the stuff that people complain about now. Is it because it's just become more easy to list and find these rooms, via the internet, that people are upset? The sharing economy is here to stay....
Unfortunately Airbnb doesn't always do the right thing by its hosts/guests, until the news media gets involved. The way they dealt with it was disappointing.
To those who think that hotels are somehow more safe, think again. Bedbugs are rampant in hotels; so is theft & crime. My brother recently booked a 4-star hotel in Cambodia via Travelocity; it turned out to be in the middle of construction without a lobby, working elevator, etc.
I don't understand the rancor towards Airbnb. For many decades people have been renting rooms out in their homes. This goes on in every US college and resort town! Those hosts don't have insurance, inspections, fire escapes etc. - all the stuff that people complain about now. Is it because it's just become more easy to list and find these rooms, via the internet, that people are upset? The sharing economy is here to stay....
7
When traveling internationally, it makes sense to stick with known international or national brands. While unfortunate, I'm not surprised your brother ended up in a hotel in the middle of a construction zone after using Travelocity.
While I think we agree that no place is 100% safe, hotels do add a measure of safety not found in a stranger's home and one has recourse if an incident occurs. Also, one can take certain precautions such as keeping electronics on your person, locking them in the safe (if available), using a laptop lock, or leaving them at home. As for bedbugs, one can encounter them anywhere!
While I think we agree that no place is 100% safe, hotels do add a measure of safety not found in a stranger's home and one has recourse if an incident occurs. Also, one can take certain precautions such as keeping electronics on your person, locking them in the safe (if available), using a laptop lock, or leaving them at home. As for bedbugs, one can encounter them anywhere!
3
These people who have been renting out a room in their homes for decades own that one home. You as a renter can see that. They do not rent out hundreds of thousands of lodging units every day or week to millions of vacationers.
Airbnb checks out its hosts and has a system in place to prevent scams or ripoffs by its hosts or guests. Yet it has no liability system in place? I consider that negligence.
The way it handled Mr. Silverman's request before the reporter got involved is an example of how us 99 percenters are all too often treated by big corporations and big businesses: ignored or dismissed so as not to reduce their profits. Airbnb acted like another of the greedy one percenters.
Airbnb checks out its hosts and has a system in place to prevent scams or ripoffs by its hosts or guests. Yet it has no liability system in place? I consider that negligence.
The way it handled Mr. Silverman's request before the reporter got involved is an example of how us 99 percenters are all too often treated by big corporations and big businesses: ignored or dismissed so as not to reduce their profits. Airbnb acted like another of the greedy one percenters.
7
"The sharing economy is here to stay...."
The term "sharing economy" is pure propaganda. Airbnb facilitates *business transactions* for a fee.
The term "sharing economy" is pure propaganda. Airbnb facilitates *business transactions* for a fee.
12
First, I sympathize with Mr. Silverman and extend best wishes for a rapid and complete recovery.
Second, we just can't have it all. If we want the benefits of a non-regulated sharing economy, we should be willing to assume the risks of that economy. When we pay more for hotels, we're paying in part for the hotel's insurance policy(ies). Travel can be dicey, and the way we travel reflects our choices as to the degree of risk that's acceptable to us.
Third, Airbnb would have been a lot smarter if they'd just immediately and quietly paid all of Mr. Silverman's expenses. While there is a danger that people might try to game the liability aspects of the sharing economy, Mr. Silverman is clearly not doing that. By letting this get to the home page of the NYT, however, Airbnb may have exposed itself to much greater costs going forward.
Second, we just can't have it all. If we want the benefits of a non-regulated sharing economy, we should be willing to assume the risks of that economy. When we pay more for hotels, we're paying in part for the hotel's insurance policy(ies). Travel can be dicey, and the way we travel reflects our choices as to the degree of risk that's acceptable to us.
Third, Airbnb would have been a lot smarter if they'd just immediately and quietly paid all of Mr. Silverman's expenses. While there is a danger that people might try to game the liability aspects of the sharing economy, Mr. Silverman is clearly not doing that. By letting this get to the home page of the NYT, however, Airbnb may have exposed itself to much greater costs going forward.
25
Mr. Silverman's case shows the dangers of a "non-regulated sharing economy" to an unwary public. The "sharing economy" needs some regulation for the sake of the public; perhaps not as much as hotels, which want to keep every room occupied year round and which have a large impact on the neighborhood in terms of traffic, late-night noise, and safety.
1
Of all people, you, as a Honolulu resident, should understand that illegal rentals have a huge impact on a neighborhood in terms of traffic, late-night noise, and safety. Kailua has suffered horribly from scofflaws who have basically taken over the neighborhood and turned it into one giant, illegal vacation village.
I have used Airbnb with success a number of times but understand I'm rolling the dice each time. I pay close attention to the feedback already posted and always apply the if-it's-sounds-too-good-to-be-true-it-probably-is rule. So far, any unforeseen issues have been more than offset by the benefits of being in a real home instead of a sterile hotel. Our family is spread out all over the country, and renting an entire home for our annual reunions makes them so much more convivial than they would be if we stayed in a hotel and had to meet up in the common areas. And it's so much more authentic in other countries to stay in a house or an apartment and live more like a local.
15
If they truly believed these incidents to be "incredibly rare" then they'd have no problem with compensation, since the odd, incredibly rare expenditure of a few, or even several thousand dollars, in compensation would be a pittance. If this guy had his medical covered, a stay in a 5-star, and thousand or two of "We're sorry" offered, the NYT would have no story. A couple of million of us wouldn't have read this story and shuddered.
The bottom line here is that I'm not going to stay with Airbnb.
By holding the line on this guy, they've saved themselves millions in compensation from similar incidents...and cost themselves tens of millions in business. I'd just rather give my money to people with a sense of responsibility towards me.
The bottom line here is that I'm not going to stay with Airbnb.
By holding the line on this guy, they've saved themselves millions in compensation from similar incidents...and cost themselves tens of millions in business. I'd just rather give my money to people with a sense of responsibility towards me.
23
If I was a landlord of a large multiple dwelling and I wanted to get rid of my current tenants, I would encourage everyone to use Airbnb. I too would do the same with those apartments that I control. This would drive out the old and safety minded quickly.
If you believe that would work then what does that tell you?
If you believe that would work then what does that tell you?
10
I hope the NYT follows up on this. The Airbnb spokesperson's comment that the company will "help" cover the victim's expenses isn't reassuring. Sounds more like the stage two fallback position when weaseling out.
2
AirBNB is not the only one to be worried about. I rented a one-bedroom in the Village through VRBO (part of HomeAway) for the weekend that Hurricane Sandy landed. VRBO couldn't help with the refund because it is really a broker only. No mention of flakiness in the reviews because proprietors have substantial editorial control. All this said, this was the first bad experience I've had out of dozens. Now I always buy the additional insurance provided.
3
I'm confused. Did you attempt to cancel the rental before arriving in NYC or after arriving? Doesn't the contract say what happens when "acts of God" occur?
A lot of blaming the victim here. I guess that's part of the new, corporatized culture of the internet and its profiteers. Although I must say, I wouldn't walk into a home or a junkyard with a Rottweiler that didn't know me well.
5
The Airbnb spokesman says these kinds of incidents are incredibly rare, but when they happen, "we try to make things right."
Except in this case, they made things truly right only after The New York Times contacted the company and it was clear they would be getting negative press.
Except in this case, they made things truly right only after The New York Times contacted the company and it was clear they would be getting negative press.
12
AirBnB and its siblings in the "sharing economy" are free riders, collecting a fee as the middle man and insulating itself from situations like this and many, many more in which the renter discovers lodgings are far from what was advertised. Before readers jump on me for neglecting the many, many happy outcomes, lets be clear that were these negative situations to arise at a regulated hotel or BnB, the customer would get some satisfaction. Instead, with AirBnB the apparent savings that result from the system's "efficiencies" vanish. But AirBnB still makes its fee. I've used AirBnB but always with a caveat emptor approach.
18
Mr.Silverman seems to be an experienced traveller, considering the fact that the stop in Argentina was part of a long journey from Alaska. Embarking on such journey without travel insurance is surprising to me. I never embark on a long journey without an insurance plan that will cover emergencies around the world.
16
The sharing economy business model: enter a marketplace and undercut the competition by ignoring all laws/rules/regulations that apply to all businesses in said marketplace.
How many of the hosts (which in fact are actual businesses) report their income / pay taxes on said income and have proper insurance coverage that said business requires?
Few, since the overwhelming majority of homeowner policies DON'T cover commercial use of a private residence. How about the nearby residents that have invested in a residential area to be thrust without their acknowledgment or agreement into a suddenly commercial environment … which in 99.9% of the cases violate rental agreements/leases etc.
Oh hold on ….it's the cutesy wootsy 'sharing economy' so hip and where no one is responsible but the fool that uses said services!
It's very telling that AirBnB had already blown the victim off; that is until the NYT contacted them - or the fact they know they put people into risky liability scenarios (*but hey they have to make $$ somehow right!?).
And took a number of years to offer any type of coverage - hmmm but only if the hosts - here's the point - have a proper (read: commercial) insurance policy to start - do they extend a bare minimum of additional coverage.
Wouldn't the responsible way to to set this up is require the hosts to prove they have both the proper insurance coverage AND the right (re: not a rental) to offer said services BEFORE allowing them to list their properties?
How many of the hosts (which in fact are actual businesses) report their income / pay taxes on said income and have proper insurance coverage that said business requires?
Few, since the overwhelming majority of homeowner policies DON'T cover commercial use of a private residence. How about the nearby residents that have invested in a residential area to be thrust without their acknowledgment or agreement into a suddenly commercial environment … which in 99.9% of the cases violate rental agreements/leases etc.
Oh hold on ….it's the cutesy wootsy 'sharing economy' so hip and where no one is responsible but the fool that uses said services!
It's very telling that AirBnB had already blown the victim off; that is until the NYT contacted them - or the fact they know they put people into risky liability scenarios (*but hey they have to make $$ somehow right!?).
And took a number of years to offer any type of coverage - hmmm but only if the hosts - here's the point - have a proper (read: commercial) insurance policy to start - do they extend a bare minimum of additional coverage.
Wouldn't the responsible way to to set this up is require the hosts to prove they have both the proper insurance coverage AND the right (re: not a rental) to offer said services BEFORE allowing them to list their properties?
18
Are we adults? Everyone has the option of renting a hotel. If you don't like hotels then go to a B and B. If you want to spend as little money as possible go Air BnB and assume all the risks that entails. If you don't want to do that then stay home.
People sound as if Air BnB has a gun to their head. Uber is cool....Air BnB is cool...both are very liberating but like sex with a stranger it carries some risk. Let's take a deep breath.. evaluate our risk quotient and never, never blame the dog....it's either the owner or the victim....in this case it sounds like both.
People sound as if Air BnB has a gun to their head. Uber is cool....Air BnB is cool...both are very liberating but like sex with a stranger it carries some risk. Let's take a deep breath.. evaluate our risk quotient and never, never blame the dog....it's either the owner or the victim....in this case it sounds like both.
14
Airbnb has no meaningful customer service because it does not provide a service. IT IS AN APP. It profits from putting buyers in contact with sellers and vice-versa, like a classified ad. Any impression of anything more is window-dressing designed to distract users from obvious risks. Many folks, even those who abhor government regulation, are largely unaware of the extent to which regulations and laws protect the public and providers before, during and after their transactions. Airbnb, like its cousins Uber, Lyft and the rest, could be called outlaws, simply because they exist outside those regulatory frameworks. Buyer -- and seller -- beware: you are on your own in uncharted territory.
111
Soozzie, you is right; it's an APP.
I hates APPs.
I hates APPs.
when you reach out to sniff or pat a stranger dog - this can happen to you and the responsibility is yours and not any one else's. This is typical american attitude of trying to get other people to cover costs of one's own mistakes.
2
"when you reach out to sniff or pat a stranger dog - this can happen to you and the responsibility is yours and not any one else's."
Unless you're paying the stranger dog's owner to stay on the premises guarded by the stranger dog.
Unless you're paying the stranger dog's owner to stay on the premises guarded by the stranger dog.
Well, well...sometimes you just get what you paid for, don't you? If you pay for pasta, don't be outraged if they don't bring you Lobster Tails. Regular hotels cost what they do in part because they do so much to avoid mishaps--by inspecting elevators, having safety equipment, and so on. And yes, they control the number and often the size of pets on premises. So---who was feeding and caring for this dog for the duration of this visit? Anyone?? Was this dog being cared for at all? A host stupid --or greedy--enough to fail to tell a visitor about a dog on the property of this size and temperament might also be stupid/greedy enough to just leave him without adequate care, causing him extreme distress. Of course he will lash out. Was he being fed and watered? Was he being forced to stay outdoors when he usually slept in the rented house? We don't know a lot about this story--including a lot of details about the dog. There is a lot of shared responsibility to go around here. And some of it starts with trying to travel on a shoestring budget.
3
Airbnb is not in the hospitality industry, as Mr. Silverman claims. They are in the brokerage business, connecting property owners or tenants with potential short term renters. The benefit to the renters is generally a much cheaper stay. That savings does come at a cost. If one wants the security and predictability associated with a traditional hospitality provider, pay up and stay in a hotel!
68
Horse feathers! They are in the hospitality business-- its right in their name AIRBNB.
It would be a good marketing ploy for Airbnb to offer travelers & hosts optional insurance at modest rates.
If the host buys it, then the price is included in the listing and relieved travelers will feel better about selecting the property. If the host does not buy it, travelers can then decide to purchase coverage or not.
If the host buys it, then the price is included in the listing and relieved travelers will feel better about selecting the property. If the host does not buy it, travelers can then decide to purchase coverage or not.
29
It's too bad that it took the intervention of Ron Lieber, who happens to write for a very influential newspaper, to get Airbnb to respond to Mike Silverman's request for help on his medical expenses. In other words, Airbnb did not express their willingness to "make things right" until the company was faced with the threat of negative publicity. Unfortunately, Ron Lieber won't be able to play this role for every customer who has a serious problem.
131
The problem I see with AirBnB is that it doesn't clearly let people know that if is no more than a listing service. It hasn't verified that the rental even exists, is habitable, safe or even legal. I looked at the site in preparation for a trip to Europe. It left me uncomfortable since I know that anyone renting residential property must be licensed in that city.
I used a well established company that provided a lot of information, including how long the owner has used the site in addition to a lot of other information that indicated that the site has some standards.
I used a well established company that provided a lot of information, including how long the owner has used the site in addition to a lot of other information that indicated that the site has some standards.
7
"I used a well established company ..."
What company?
What company?
A lot of the comments here lack sympathy for this man and his vicious dog bite. He didn't "stick his hand through a fence" there is clearly a fenced area at the entrance that looks like a dog run, he had to go by the dog to get in and out of the building. There have been people raped and burglarized by Uber drivers and your "sympathies are limited"?
5
Using Airbnb is a leap of faith. I stayed for my first (and possibly last) time in an Airbnb place where first time we sat in the living room the piece of furniture broke. The host was immediately notified, he got to fix the furniture next day and his request was for me to pay for the full cost of repair without even showing a receipt. Even when it was obvious that the seat was not in good shape to begin with. Airbnb acted as arbiter but I ended up paying 100 bucks for it. This situation soured my whole stay in this place. In a hotel nothing like that would have happened. My lesson? If I can find a hotel in a place I am visiting at a price that does not make me go broke, I am staying in one. In many places you can find small hotels at prices comparable to those of Airbnb. Airbnb and Uber are not going anywhere with me.
83
"This situation soured my whole stay in this place."
Did you post a review on the Airbnb web site?
Did you post a review on the Airbnb web site?
How much do you weigh?
I find myself wondering why you would pay for a piece of obviously faulty furniture breaking. Personally, I would have told the host "I'm going to the ER for x-rays. You will be hearing from my attorney. It's part of your responsibility to make sure your accommodations are safe, including the furniture."
Airbnb should require hosts to list pets on their web site ads.
4
Users of this service, absent a serious contract, assume the risks. Sad but true.
30
This was the same scam Airbnb pulled on us. We had out laptops and other electronics stolen our first day staying at a property and I'm pretty sure the house was hit because people in the area knew it was being rented out. So Airbnb gave us a refund for the night we had stayed there. Why? So we couldn't write a review of the property. This house is still being rented out and any new renters have NO way of knowing that the place was broken into (and according to the cops is in a high crime area). Did Airbnb or the renter pay for our losses? No they did not. After this happened, I read a study that found that 95% of the reviews on Airbnb are either 4.5 or 5. So basically, it's like renting a place you found on Craigs list -- just that level of assurance.
102
"So Airbnb gave us a refund for the night we had stayed there. Why? So we couldn't write a review of the property. This house is still being rented out ..."
Could you be more specific? Did you formally agree to withhold a negative review?
Could you be more specific? Did you formally agree to withhold a negative review?
1
Same situation for us, renting thru VRBO. Our laptops were stolen in Austin, TX (which happens to be the HQ for VRBO) and they refused to help us. The host didn't help either. We had to file a claim with our own insurance company. The house is still being rented out and new renters are unaware of the burglary. If we ever stay at a vacation rental home again, we will definitely do more research on the neighborhood, the house and the host.
1
I'm a huge fan of the Airbnb concept in theory. I've been a host for a number of years, and sometimes have been a guest. Overall my experiences have been 99% positive. I've met amazing people, and my heart has been warmed by the generosity of strangers who have brought me gifts from their home countries (and after already paying me to stay in my apartment), guests who've stayed in touch and sent me holiday cards after their stays, and hosts I've stayed with who treated me like an old friend. It's been amazing.
However, I've been sorely disappointed with the folks who run Airbnb itself. They are making huge amounts of money for, let's face it, doing very little actual work. Once you have a platform such as the Airbnb website up and running, it does most of the work itself, allowing hosts and guests to communicate with each other via the site, make reservations, and handle payment all through the same platform (by way of Paypal). Sure, Airbnb has to handle customer service issues and P.R. and liability/insurance issues, but that aside, most of the work is done by the actual end-users (hosts and guests). So I have a real problem with how often Airbnb washes their hands of responsibility when it comes to guest/host issues, local building/city/state laws, etc., and puts all the onus on the end users.
However, I've been sorely disappointed with the folks who run Airbnb itself. They are making huge amounts of money for, let's face it, doing very little actual work. Once you have a platform such as the Airbnb website up and running, it does most of the work itself, allowing hosts and guests to communicate with each other via the site, make reservations, and handle payment all through the same platform (by way of Paypal). Sure, Airbnb has to handle customer service issues and P.R. and liability/insurance issues, but that aside, most of the work is done by the actual end-users (hosts and guests). So I have a real problem with how often Airbnb washes their hands of responsibility when it comes to guest/host issues, local building/city/state laws, etc., and puts all the onus on the end users.
104
i couldn't agree more, Lisa. Am also a NY host and have been happy with virtually all of my guests. But we (hosts and guests) do the work, and the increasingly corporate style of airbnb (impossible to communicate directly with a person when problems arise, for instance) puts me off. Offering an insurance option might help. But being willing to just do the right thing is even better.
You would assume the property owners would have given Mr. Silverman advice to not go near the dog.
1
I was bitten by a German Shepherd police dog as a freshman in college - never forget it. I cross the street at the sight of a German Shepherd, Rottweiler, Pinscher. But, putting out your hand for one of these animals to safely get a scent - I don't know. In light of the circumstances leading up to this moment, he may not have thought of it. But everyone take heed. On the other hand, Airbnb (of which I am a big fan and have been hosted with dogs present - although mentioned in the listing) does have to take some responsibility. In this case, only a call from the NYT pushed them to action. That's a PR move! But it should bring some change. Keep on it Mike!
1
The risk here is the same as if you got an informal referral to stay with a friend of a friend. "Oh, you're going to Salta? I have a friend there. Stay with him. It would be nice if you gave him a gift, say $60." Host turns out to have a dog, you get bitten.
This is the loophole these businesses are exploiting. It's just that instead of a friend connecting you with a host it's Airbnb. And Airbnb tries to pretend that's all that it is.
The obvious solution is, in fact, insurance and I don't understand why these "sharing" companies have been so reluctant and slow to get into that business. Insurance should have been a part of this from the start.
The real problem with the sharing economy is incomplete business plans that rely on questionable logic to ignore the risks to customers and liability for that risk.
This is what happens when you have a bunch of 20 somethings running the world, funded by a bunch of "venture capitalists" with a "laser focus" on making a quick killing through an IPO, and little else, all overlaid with an increasingly arrogant libertarian philosophy that says we're all on our own.
We need some adults in these board rooms. And yes, some hefty lawsuits to change the culture, which is all about "my cool idea" and not "your old fashioned concerns like people getting hurt, not our problem."
Of course Airbnb is trying to "settle" with Mr. Silverman. Some adult attorney has finally gotten involved and told the kids to do it or kiss their business goodbye.
This is the loophole these businesses are exploiting. It's just that instead of a friend connecting you with a host it's Airbnb. And Airbnb tries to pretend that's all that it is.
The obvious solution is, in fact, insurance and I don't understand why these "sharing" companies have been so reluctant and slow to get into that business. Insurance should have been a part of this from the start.
The real problem with the sharing economy is incomplete business plans that rely on questionable logic to ignore the risks to customers and liability for that risk.
This is what happens when you have a bunch of 20 somethings running the world, funded by a bunch of "venture capitalists" with a "laser focus" on making a quick killing through an IPO, and little else, all overlaid with an increasingly arrogant libertarian philosophy that says we're all on our own.
We need some adults in these board rooms. And yes, some hefty lawsuits to change the culture, which is all about "my cool idea" and not "your old fashioned concerns like people getting hurt, not our problem."
Of course Airbnb is trying to "settle" with Mr. Silverman. Some adult attorney has finally gotten involved and told the kids to do it or kiss their business goodbye.
28
"This is what happens when you have a bunch of 20 somethings running the world, ..."
The founders of Airbnb are now in their 30s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb
The founders of Airbnb are now in their 30s:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbnb
LOL, and very well said!
You get what you pay for.
1
Many comments here appear to be from those who have never used Airbnb and are ignorant of how it works. Here are a few corrections:
1) You can book any hotel with basic ID and a credit card. Airbnb has a much more extensive system of ID Verifications and Reviews for both hosts and guests.
2) There is no guarantee, especially in less developed countries, that hotels and other lodgings will assume liabilities for guest injuries.
3) Government inspections are no guarantee that accommodations will be safe, especially in places with endemic governmental corruption. I have stayed at some dirty, run-down, smelly, moldy, and often over-priced traditional lodging that I'm sure had the full range of legal inspection certificates. Bedbugs are regularly reported in hotels in even the most modern cities.
4) Insurance companies will have issues with homeowners that do not declare they are renting rooms. However, many insurers also offer B&B riders at reasonable cost.
As Airbnb hosts, we have appropriate insurance, pay taxes, and are licensed and inspected by code enforcement and fire department. We have verified ID's and many positive reviews, and we require the same for our guests. Most of the backlash for homesharing services comes from traditional hotels and inns that want to eliminate the competition. If you are looking for accommodations as you travel, I'd suggest checking out Airbnb listings along with the traditional ones. You may be pleasantly surprised.
1) You can book any hotel with basic ID and a credit card. Airbnb has a much more extensive system of ID Verifications and Reviews for both hosts and guests.
2) There is no guarantee, especially in less developed countries, that hotels and other lodgings will assume liabilities for guest injuries.
3) Government inspections are no guarantee that accommodations will be safe, especially in places with endemic governmental corruption. I have stayed at some dirty, run-down, smelly, moldy, and often over-priced traditional lodging that I'm sure had the full range of legal inspection certificates. Bedbugs are regularly reported in hotels in even the most modern cities.
4) Insurance companies will have issues with homeowners that do not declare they are renting rooms. However, many insurers also offer B&B riders at reasonable cost.
As Airbnb hosts, we have appropriate insurance, pay taxes, and are licensed and inspected by code enforcement and fire department. We have verified ID's and many positive reviews, and we require the same for our guests. Most of the backlash for homesharing services comes from traditional hotels and inns that want to eliminate the competition. If you are looking for accommodations as you travel, I'd suggest checking out Airbnb listings along with the traditional ones. You may be pleasantly surprised.
9
AirBnB, Uber - business models that achieve competitive advantage by externalizing the liability risks, pushing them off to both their customers and their suppliers. This is an asset (avoiding costs for insurance that their competitors are required to pay) they can profit from, but it also represents a very large regulatory risk. It is brilliant, until it isn't and everyone realizes what's going on and governments force a fair accounting.
22
"... by externalizing the liability risks ..."
Hosts may also be evading taxes and safety regulations. See this report from the NY State Attorney General:
Airbnb in the city
October 2014
http://www.ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Airbnb%20report.pdf
Hosts may also be evading taxes and safety regulations. See this report from the NY State Attorney General:
Airbnb in the city
October 2014
http://www.ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Airbnb%20report.pdf
1
Caveat emptor.
2
I think that there is some loss of understanding of the situation when you stay in someone's home outside of the US. Especially in poorer countries, or in rural areas dogs are kept at protection and it is probably understood that this is the case. It's not necessarily the host's fault for not disclosing this (they may have thought that it was understood that dogs come with their type of property), but points to the lack of understanding by AirBnB of the world at large it is dealing with.
This business along with the "sharing" economy and companies like Uber and Lyft are going to have a rude wake up when something ugly happens to their clients or hosts. And as a guest of someone in their home you have to remember that you must live under their roof and their rules, just like you did when you were a kid at your parents or relative's house. Your rights are automatically limited.
This business along with the "sharing" economy and companies like Uber and Lyft are going to have a rude wake up when something ugly happens to their clients or hosts. And as a guest of someone in their home you have to remember that you must live under their roof and their rules, just like you did when you were a kid at your parents or relative's house. Your rights are automatically limited.
1
Years ago, through airbnb, I rented a tidy studio apartment tucked in the back of a stinky garage in San Fransisco. When I arrived the room was cold. I couldn't find a thermostat. I wrote the host who told me to light the oven and just leave the oven door open.
I thought this idea foolish. I froze and vowed never to use the service again. airbnb refunded me their commission, but not the money for the host. They kept the listing running.
My nephew, a few blocks away, found a huge lovely apartment with a great view. The host lived in one of the four bedrooms and was very gracious. I went there to warm up.
The service is a mixed bag. Like life. I'd like to see it grow. It's an interesting and great idea when it works. Like hitchhiking.
I thought this idea foolish. I froze and vowed never to use the service again. airbnb refunded me their commission, but not the money for the host. They kept the listing running.
My nephew, a few blocks away, found a huge lovely apartment with a great view. The host lived in one of the four bedrooms and was very gracious. I went there to warm up.
The service is a mixed bag. Like life. I'd like to see it grow. It's an interesting and great idea when it works. Like hitchhiking.
11
"They kept the listing running."
Did you post a review?
Did you post a review?
I understand why people traveling in expensive countries find these cheap "couch surfing" type options attractive. But I travel mostly in poorer countries and I find it simpler and safer to book a basic hotel room. I don't like the idea that I may have to deal with a quirky, even anti-social home owner, let alone the risk of a dog attack. I prefer 24-hour access to my room without wondering if I'll get a house key. Moreover, browsing various house sharing sites, I have noticed a definite preference for single female guests or couples. Understandable perhaps, but I don't have to deal with gender issues when checking into a hotel.
5
Airbnb isn't a "couch renting" service. The last rental I made through airbnb was for a very professionally run condo, with hot tub, swimming pool, gym and in-house washer/dryer in New Mexico. Great landlord. Great experience.
Making Airbnb liable in situations such as this would result in higher costs for everyone. Why not have the traveler carry his own burden of risk. If he/she wants to be protected against the possibility of an owner caused harm, he should purchase insurance. That way the insurance and legal industries get their bite of the apple without forcing everyone to pay. Mr. Silverman benefited from this low cost travel option, but now wants the benefits of the higher cost travel options.
40
Indeed. This notion that all environments have to be safe all the time is what has ruined so much of life in the US. This padded playground, helmeted toddler on the tricycle version of life, with lawsuits hanging over everyone's head - it's a shame that Americans take this insulated attitude and try to foist it on the rest of the world.
Luckily I think the momentum of airbnb, for all it's foibles, is unstoppable. Sharing is becoming a right.
Luckily I think the momentum of airbnb, for all it's foibles, is unstoppable. Sharing is becoming a right.
1
Susan, the problem with your suggestion is that it lets the owner of the accommodation off the hook. We take the safety here in the U.S. for granted, assuming it just happens. It is largely due to liability laws that apportion blame and financial responsibility to those at fault, including punitive damages for gross negligence.
Yes, you should have viable health insurance that works where you are when traveling. But your solution is like saying your auto insurance, that covers your negligence, should also cover defects that were caused by the manufacture of your car. In which case the manufacturers would say, "Hey, it's not our problem, they have insurance, just put in that exploding gas tank."
Airbnb needs to make insurance part of the deal when a homeowner signs up with them and then Airbnb needs to cancel the owner's listing if claims exceed a certain number or amount. This would give owners a financial incentive to keep their properties, and their guests' experiences, safe.
Of course Airbnb doesn't want to do that because it would complicate their business plan, which is to have a computer mediate thousands of these transactions everyday, taking a fee from every one of them for little to no work, and reducing Airbnb's own involvement to near zero.
Yes, you should have viable health insurance that works where you are when traveling. But your solution is like saying your auto insurance, that covers your negligence, should also cover defects that were caused by the manufacture of your car. In which case the manufacturers would say, "Hey, it's not our problem, they have insurance, just put in that exploding gas tank."
Airbnb needs to make insurance part of the deal when a homeowner signs up with them and then Airbnb needs to cancel the owner's listing if claims exceed a certain number or amount. This would give owners a financial incentive to keep their properties, and their guests' experiences, safe.
Of course Airbnb doesn't want to do that because it would complicate their business plan, which is to have a computer mediate thousands of these transactions everyday, taking a fee from every one of them for little to no work, and reducing Airbnb's own involvement to near zero.
2
Hello Airbnb is making money. It should have obligations to its customers. It is time people started recognizing there is no free lunch! Airbnb is dangerous.
5
Stay at a hotel that provides good Union jobs with benefits and which has liability insurance for just the kind of mishaps described in this article . On the other hand a real hotel would allow a Rottweiler on its premises. You get what you pay for.
8
We'd all stay home if we had to pay a few hundred dollars a night.
His own fault, why did he feel it necessary to bother the dog? When using services such as airbnb, you are clearly deciding to travel at your own risk. There is no payback for stupidity.
1
How did he bother the dog? He merely extended his hand as a typical way to introduce oneself to a strange dog. He wasn't throwing rocks at it.
Why is the sharing economy not as great as its believers claim, why is it so controversial, and what should and shouldn’t we do about it? See http://worksnewage.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-sharing-economy-and-jobs-ii.....
The renter was responsible to provide the information that there was a large dog. They should be removed from the listing and Airbnb pay whatever is asked fairly. Without knowing the renter or the animal, if there were a large dog I would never choose to stay there.
4
Let there be no doubt that "the company's quick change of heart in Mr Silverman's case" has everything to do with being contacted "on his behalf" by an NYT reporter.
Like Mr Silverman, I have always offered my hand to a possibly aggressive dog to smell, read it somewhere. I'm rethinking that one.
Like Mr Silverman, I have always offered my hand to a possibly aggressive dog to smell, read it somewhere. I'm rethinking that one.
9
"read it somewhere."
Me, too. "Everybody knows" that that's what you're _supposed_ to do.
Me, too. "Everybody knows" that that's what you're _supposed_ to do.
One of the worst aspects of BnB next to what is pointed out here is their functioning as a pseudo banking system.
I wanted to rent a apartment a year in advance for an exhibition in Switzerland via BnB. I found out they take all the money for the rental off your card and hold it in escrow on their account. They are making a nice bundle using this tactic, with millions of dollars transacted daily, worldwide, day by day. They are investing it, turning it over, and you can never know if it will be there in the future when it should be paid out.
Furthermore, their reservation system stinks.
No-one keeps an online calendar, so it turns into an endless trial and error to book a place. Many people do not answer back. And:
Every time you want to book, you have to re-enter all your C.C. info.
Really safe, apart from aggressive dogs, right?
I wanted to rent a apartment a year in advance for an exhibition in Switzerland via BnB. I found out they take all the money for the rental off your card and hold it in escrow on their account. They are making a nice bundle using this tactic, with millions of dollars transacted daily, worldwide, day by day. They are investing it, turning it over, and you can never know if it will be there in the future when it should be paid out.
Furthermore, their reservation system stinks.
No-one keeps an online calendar, so it turns into an endless trial and error to book a place. Many people do not answer back. And:
Every time you want to book, you have to re-enter all your C.C. info.
Really safe, apart from aggressive dogs, right?
2
I would not book a stay in a house with a pit bull. This seems as much a disclosure issue as an insurance matter.
7
Having used AirBnB from both ends, I can assure you that it is no more or no less than an internet platform for the exchange of money and information, The money you can count on-- when a guest you pay immediately and as a host you get the money 24 hours after check in. As for the information exchanged via their platform-- it's not nearly as reliable.
1
Hmmm, I thought everyone knew not to stick a hand into a strange dog's face. Regardless, it seems to me the dog owner is at fault here. In the US, a dog bite or attack falls on its owner regardless of how reckless the attacked person may have been. The law may be different in other countries though. There is so much risk associated with Airbnb that I'm surprised anyone continues to use it. The few horror stories that have been publicized (and god knows how many we don't know about) should be enough to scare off any prudent person. People are so interested in being hip, cool, indie and part of the new global economy that they forget about taking the necessary precautions.
51
Really, you're going to blame the victim here? Imagine you've paid money to stay in a place - and there is a dog there. Normal behavior (as described in the article) is to offer a sniff of the back of your hand before petting the dog. It's normal to try to interact with a dog in a house that you're staying, FYI. It's NOT normal for that dog to clamp onto your arm and start tearing it apart. The only responsible PERSON in this situation was the host, who had a dangerous dog running around the property, and didn't warn his guests or make sure the dog was locked up, and the only responsible COMPANY was AirBnB, who can no longer hide behind the idea that they are just "facilitating transactions".
Actually, slowly extending the back of one's hand so that the dog may sniff it is a very typical way to introduce oneself to a strange dog.
And the person in this article had seen the dog for several days before and noticed no aggressive tendencies. It's not like he wandered up to a dog on the street and shoved his hand it its face.
And the person in this article had seen the dog for several days before and noticed no aggressive tendencies. It's not like he wandered up to a dog on the street and shoved his hand it its face.
What is so surprising is that a thrifty, experienced traveler can stay just about anywhere in Latin America in a nice family type hotel, clean and safe, for no more than $25 per night, These types of hotels are run by local, often spanish speaking only hosts and offer a similiar "cultural"experience but better security and hospitality and in the manner sought and expecteds by AirBnB users. I just got back from a month wandering around Guatemala, El Salvador and the Yucatán, and other than México, paid in the $20 range--cable TV, wifi and breakfast. Why would anyone use this shady outfit, which has not addressed and has in effect misled the guests re: liability for injuries, when these long standing family hotels are available in every locale?
One thing I have noticed with AirbnB is that it is subject to local government regulations if they exist. When we rented a flat in Amsterdam through Airbnb we were told that all short term rentals by homeowners are regulated and licensed as B and Bs. They don't want to ban short term rentals but they expect compliance with the hotel laws--and of course are trying to enforce this. http://tnw.co/1EmQmgq
Local governments could require homeowners to be licensed as hotel operators. This could include disclosing the type of pets in the home. On another of our Airbnb rentals the owner specifically stated she had several cats, in case, someone was allergic to them. I believe that Airbnb's feedback is a significant help to travelers but this story shows how it is not going to tell you what could go wrong. Past experiences are not indicative of future ones.
Local governments could require homeowners to be licensed as hotel operators. This could include disclosing the type of pets in the home. On another of our Airbnb rentals the owner specifically stated she had several cats, in case, someone was allergic to them. I believe that Airbnb's feedback is a significant help to travelers but this story shows how it is not going to tell you what could go wrong. Past experiences are not indicative of future ones.
1
I completely fail to see the authors viewpoint of how AIrBNB was at fault. They simply connect people - and much better than before. I backpacked for years in the 70's and 80's and the standard process was to use your Lonely Planet and pick up short term accommodation on boards and notes at various travel hostels. Guess what? About 75% were awesome and 25% were horrible. I had the best family stays, flats and homes. But I also was sexually assaulted ripped off, given dirty rooms, and oh yes attacked by a dog. Thats travel. Im old now but I would think that something like Air BnB would help the odds with ratings, pictures, clear pricing, etc. Does the author of the article suggest we do away with such sites and go back in time?
4
"I completely fail to see the authors viewpoint of how AIrBNB was at fault. They simply connect people -..."
No, they connect people looking for goods and services to providers of those goods and services. They are a broker and do share some responsibility.
No, they connect people looking for goods and services to providers of those goods and services. They are a broker and do share some responsibility.
1
I can't imagine taking this risk, both for the sake of the homeowner's liability (one can guess what one's insurance premium will look like, assuming the company offers a renewal at all) and for the sake of the animal. Most animals don't like strangers parading on and off their turf. And this one - a Rottweiler no less? I suspect he was behaving as any watchdog would be expected to if you stick your hand out. (There is a right way and a wrong way to extend your hand to a dog - and any unfamiliar animal should be approached with caution.) I don't want to say, exactly, Mr Silverman asked for it, but clearly he shares some of the responsibility. I hope there were no consequences to the dog; often in this kind of case the animal is peremptorily put down.
22
It's Argentina, not the US. Different laws, different liabilities, different attitudes toward risk.
If the guest knew he would be sharing space with a Rottweiler, maybe he would have brushed up on his animal etiquette.
The dog should have been put down. And that would have been tbe owner's fault. The renter did not sign up for a dog.
It seems AirBnb should require hosts to disclose the presence of pets in the home, including the type of pet and size/breed, etc., and perhaps include a picture. Some people have allergies and others are afraid of large dogs.
109
You seem to believe that AirBnb has some sense of responsibility toward its users. It doesn't. It's not a hotel business, and its business model is to avoid exactly the kinds of regulations and responsibilities that hotels and licensed lodgings have to live with.
Buyer beware, and in this case, beware of dog, too.
Buyer beware, and in this case, beware of dog, too.
3
Importantly, even small dogs may bite.
2
And perhaps guests should not reach out to touch or pet hosts' animals.
1
This is one of the big reasons not to use AIrbnb. There is no guarantee that the place you have booked online and paid for already is safe or even habitable. Unlike a hotel, there is no way to know if it is safe. No fire marshal has looked at it, no code inspector has noted its flaws, and you are at the mercy of a stranger or strangers. You would need to travel with a carbon monoxide detector, a smoke alarm, and a wedge to lodge under the door to prevent intruders. On the host side, who wants strangers with the bed bugs and lice issues so prevalent today, and perhaps strange pets as stowaways in your home? On either side of this nasty equation - why take horrible risks with your life and your safety and your piece of mind?
137
Because often the experience is a far more pleasant for what you would spend in a seedy hotel if you paid the same price.
2
My parents were at the well-regulated MGM Grand a week before the fire that killed 87 people. The number of attacks, robberies, car break-ins, food poisoning, etc at hotels would boggle your mind. Not to mention you're probably on a high floor if a fire breaks out, as opposed to ground floor in someone's house. As for bed-bugs, there are actually websites devoted to reports of bed bugs at hotels.
3
All hyperoble here... you can have the same fire, CO & intruder issues in a hotel. Life has no guarantees.
1
Yup, Airbnb, Uber, and all these other representatives of the new libertarian paradise - except that paradise only exists in fiction. Without what many now consider as "stupid government regulations or basic safety requirements" people get hurt for reasons that are not their fault. Rules and regulations were not passed yesterday - they evolved over time for reasons much like this one - to protect people from the carelessness and negligence of others. Let the buyer beware indeed.
164
Actually this guy went and interacted with a large dog, of a breed regularly used for fighting or defense, without the owner around. If he was 5, or even 10 years old, I'd feel bad. But once you reach adult age, a little basic sense should be expected. This guest obviously had little.
"No petting of dogs allowed"?
Agree. Better to stick with the professionals and stay safe.
Would not want to be the host either - who knows what you might be getting. Too many unknowns.
Would not want to be the host either - who knows what you might be getting. Too many unknowns.
While this is a terrible tragedy and both the renter and Airbnb bare some responsibility here, the victim also bares significant responsibility. Anyone who has been around the world, or around the block, should know not to stick their arm through a fence to pet a dog...especially an aggressive dog. We are very quick to place blame in the US and I don't know if that is a healthy trend.
32
I didn't see anything in the article about him sticking his hand through a fence, but yes, point taken: you don't go around trying to buddy up to a Rottweiler. Seems to me there is blame all the way around in this incident.
2
You are assuming all Rotties are aggressive. They are not but usually big puppies, gentle dogs. The article even stated that the dog was quiet and calm during the stay. It also stated the guest extended his hand for the dog to sniff which is what you do with dogs. It is an unfortunate accident without blame --- except with AirBnB's typical denial of responsibility.
I had rented my apartment long term to a Cuban, professional lady only to find out that she and her realtor mother were subletting it, along with 5 other properties not owned by them, full time through AirBnB. A complete violation of AirBnB terms, not to mention my lease with her. AirBnB ignored my complaint as the landlord and property owner. I was exposed to such liability you can not imagine and, the secondary insurance mentioned would not even be applicable since I had no relationship to AirBnB besides an AirBnB client illegally subletting my property.
On another dog-related topic, they finally added a section about service animals and links to the ADA and FHA. However, all US properties are subject to these regulations since Airbnb acts as an agency and the rentals are not strictly between two private people. Airbnb is just like a local real estate agency in this case...markets a property, takes payment from the renter and remits it to the "property owner." Now they need to expand the relevant info for other countries, to the extent it exists.
I had rented my apartment long term to a Cuban, professional lady only to find out that she and her realtor mother were subletting it, along with 5 other properties not owned by them, full time through AirBnB. A complete violation of AirBnB terms, not to mention my lease with her. AirBnB ignored my complaint as the landlord and property owner. I was exposed to such liability you can not imagine and, the secondary insurance mentioned would not even be applicable since I had no relationship to AirBnB besides an AirBnB client illegally subletting my property.
On another dog-related topic, they finally added a section about service animals and links to the ADA and FHA. However, all US properties are subject to these regulations since Airbnb acts as an agency and the rentals are not strictly between two private people. Airbnb is just like a local real estate agency in this case...markets a property, takes payment from the renter and remits it to the "property owner." Now they need to expand the relevant info for other countries, to the extent it exists.
8
I looked back at the story, but I didn't see anywhere it specified that the dog was fenced, or in any way restrained. If that is the case, it certainly tips the balance of responsibility from Mr Silverman to the owner of the room. Still, I agree that it is always wise to keep one's hands to oneself!
3
An unfortunate experience for Mr. Silverman, but there are such obvious risks to the parties on both sides of the transaction with Airbnb and Uber, that my sympathies are limited.
62
Who cares whether your sympathies are limited? Goodness gracious, your sympathies are important to the world. I just didn't know it. Smug a little??
3
Good question and a very good article. Airbnb is in business to make money. It seems that the owner of the Salta, Argentina property failed to declare a Rottweiller at the property comes with the rental. Too many apartment and home owners fail to list everything including all amenities on their Airbnb advertisement. So, the property owner together with Airbnb make money from their advertisement despite non declared amenities that may create a safety hazard for a renter who may also have a family with children. That seems Airbnb and the property owner bear responsibility because the Rottweiller was not listed in the advertisement. There may be a line of lawyers who are ready to test the question in a law suit. Who knows how many renters would respond to an Airbnb advertisement listing a property that comes with a Rottweiller. And, a few other question arise about Airbnb and the property owner. Does the property owner and/or Airbnb pay taxes on the rental? Does the property owner have homeowners insurance coverage? Does the property owner declare to their insurance company that their property is being rented like a hotel and B&B operation? It's best for travelers and tourists to be on the safe side by purchasing travel insurance that covers accidents and emergency evacuation especially for overseas travel.
32
Those are all good questions, but remember that regulations differ widely from one country to another. And travel insurance may not cover you in and "informal" set up like AirBnB. 15 years ago my sister and I stayed in a private pensione or guest house in Mexico. We found it through the owner of a small taqueiria where we stopped for lunch after learning that our hotel hadn't held our reservation when one of our connecting flights was delayed due to bad weather. It was a nice, simple family home close to the center of town and the people were very hospitable. But one day when we were out and the family were at work and school, a fire destroyed the home along with our passports, return tickets, our money & luggage. Travel insurance didn't cover us because it was a private home. Of course, the real tragedy was that our hosts lost their home. But at least no one was hurt. Lesson: read the fine print and know the local regs.
Besides the issues you state are not mentioned in the ads, I have found too many European ads incorrectly state one bedroom when they mean studio. A 25-30 sq meter (about <300 sf) is not more than a closet. You do a search for one bedrooms and get tiny spaces. Also, Airbnb and other sites should mandate from hosts a minimum of amenities...create continuity across the product. Every unit should provide toilet paper, paper towels, cooking oil, basic cooking condiments, coffee and tea makers, kitchen utensils, etc. I have been in some that were amazingly outfitted and others where I had to bring my own towels!
1
This incident illustrates the danger of these new services. They cannot possibly screen renters, but just sign up people based upon applications. I trust that Mr. Silverman and his wife have learned their lesson and will book a budget hotel, rather than camp out in someone's spare bedroom.
53
"learned their lesson and will book a budget hotel,"
Actually, the few times I have used AirBnB, I picked rentals more expensive that budget hotels. My objective was to stay in a residential area and have some interaction with the hosts. This required a bit more proactive time and energy to find out more about both the room and the hosts, but it was definitely worth it!
Overall, I have found AirBnB photos and descriptions more realistic than the web sites of some hotels and commercial BnBs.
Actually, the few times I have used AirBnB, I picked rentals more expensive that budget hotels. My objective was to stay in a residential area and have some interaction with the hosts. This required a bit more proactive time and energy to find out more about both the room and the hosts, but it was definitely worth it!
Overall, I have found AirBnB photos and descriptions more realistic than the web sites of some hotels and commercial BnBs.
"Quite often, a host’s Airbnb listing will make no mention of a pet. The Salta listing and reviews didn’t mention the fact,"
This appears to be the problem. The site and host need to acknowledge possible adverse conditions that can affect one's stay.
A roof that may collapse?
A leak in an apartment above that has not been fixed?
A guard dog?
How can you rent a room if you are not presented with all the facts, in order that you may assess the situation.
This appears to be the problem. The site and host need to acknowledge possible adverse conditions that can affect one's stay.
A roof that may collapse?
A leak in an apartment above that has not been fixed?
A guard dog?
How can you rent a room if you are not presented with all the facts, in order that you may assess the situation.
31
Unfortunately, the owners/hosts do not see it that way. My wife and I rented some properties in Costa Rica last winter. They all had glowing descriptions and pretty pictures. Some of the things we found which were not included in the descriptions were: faucet water that was from a surface source "up on the mountain" that we were advised not to drink (this was a house with a kitchen where we planned to fix meals), water that served the community would not be more than a trickle out of the tap often times, neighborhood break-ins were common (indeed we were robbed of $600 worth of possessions when a window was jimmied while we were out), window screens with large holes in them in a tropical environment where Dengue fever and other mosquito-borne illnesses exist, a steep driveway with a 90 degree turn at the bottom that made it necessary to back down or park up at the road and walk...etc. You get my drift. The wild card here is in the OMISSIONS in the ads for the properties. My advice to travelers is not to just read the reviews but ask questions of the owners/managers before renting. The owners will tell you all kinds of wonderful things about their properties and locations...ask yourselves what they are NOT telling you.
1
Isn't AirBnB more of a "brokerage service", analogous to the "hotels.com" search engine which can handle the booking for you, but certainly wouldn't assume any liability for what happens on the properties.
Anyway, if you travel to a country where you can't sue your host for damages because they have a different legal system than your home country, then you must assume the risk of that travel.
Anyway, if you travel to a country where you can't sue your host for damages because they have a different legal system than your home country, then you must assume the risk of that travel.
30
I think a US attorney can sue Airbnb given it is a US company and the transaction was done via a US bank. The jurisdiction issue would not be complicated. The owner of the dog may be an issue but Airbnb not.
The difference is that hotels.com connect you with legal, licensed hotels that have to meet, at the very least, local building and safety codes.
Imagine if Orbitz connected you to 'Joe's Airline' who flew you around in an unlicensed, uninspected privately owned airplane instead of American Airlines.
AirBnB connects people with unlicensed, unregulated overnight accommodations. That is far different than what hotels.com does.
Imagine if Orbitz connected you to 'Joe's Airline' who flew you around in an unlicensed, uninspected privately owned airplane instead of American Airlines.
AirBnB connects people with unlicensed, unregulated overnight accommodations. That is far different than what hotels.com does.
1
The "Sharing Economy"... what a joke. Basically it's websites skimming cash from lots of people, ignoring lots of laws and ordinances and getting off scott free whenever anything bad happens to one of their "esteemed guests."
I think it's very telling that Airbnb wasn't going to do anything beyond the minimum for Mike Silverman until they were contacted by the New York Times. And I'm sick of their transparently manipulative PR campaign in NYC trying to overturn local ordinances that are designed to promote the supply of affordable housing.
I think it's very telling that Airbnb wasn't going to do anything beyond the minimum for Mike Silverman until they were contacted by the New York Times. And I'm sick of their transparently manipulative PR campaign in NYC trying to overturn local ordinances that are designed to promote the supply of affordable housing.
208
"... local ordinances that are designed to promote the supply of affordable housing."
What "ordinances"?
What "ordinances"?
3
See page 18 of this report: http://www.ag.ny.gov/pdfs/Airbnb%20report.pdf
10
and what's wrong with affordable housing??
1
The reverse of this is if you are the person renting out your home - particularly if this happens in the States - the injured person could v likely sue your pants off, and your insurance most likely would not cover. I pray it never happens but airbnb is one horrific tragedy away from serious problems, if not collapse
94
Actually, what Airbnb NEEDS are a few negligent owners getting their pants sued off. Then maybe the system can evolve to the point where innocent guests have some genuine protections. Otherwise, every time you rent from one of these Airbners, you are rolling the dice.
44
Guests are not innocent. They are willingly participating in a business that exists to avoid legal regulation, and, if I may put this delicately, to stick it to the neighborhood.
8
PS - Mr. Lieber's comments near the end of his article are totally uncalled-for:
"...and we don’t know whether travelers have died of carbon monoxide poisoning, say, in illegally converted hostels."
We also don't know whether Mr. Lieber, say, has beaten his wife lately, whether he has, say, robbed any banks, or whether he was convicted, say, of being a sexual predator.
See where I'm going?
"...and we don’t know whether travelers have died of carbon monoxide poisoning, say, in illegally converted hostels."
We also don't know whether Mr. Lieber, say, has beaten his wife lately, whether he has, say, robbed any banks, or whether he was convicted, say, of being a sexual predator.
See where I'm going?
37
Mr. Lieber was the guy reporting the story, not the buyer or the seller. I'd be interested to know what other serious problems have been encountered by people on both sides of the rental agreement wouldn't you? Is that where you were going?
29
Actually, you don't make any sense. The topic is a BUSINESS that fails miserably on disclosure. Your analogy fails just as miserably as the business.
41
No, not really. Will you be using Airbnb's services when you get there?
A company should not be held liable for actions and events outside of its control - to do so would be both unfair and unreasonable.
Major hospitality brands assume liability for what happens at their hotels because they control those hotels and what goes on there. They know if their guests have potentially-dangeous pets on property, they know what the condition of the rooms are, and they are in a position to change those conditions and correct safety issues.
AirBNB, on the other hand, does not inspect the properties it lists in its platform. It does not own, manage, or control them. It should not be held liable for what happens at the properties because it can't possibly know about or correct any issues that arise. That's part of the trade off travelers need to accept -- in exchange, you get lower prices, a more "authentic" experience, a wider variety of properties, and all the benefits of using AirBNB.
If you want full liability protection for the unexpected, either buy the insurance yourself or stay at a name brand hotel that provides that coverage (where you'll pay for it, partially in the form of higher rates). You can't have it both ways!
Major hospitality brands assume liability for what happens at their hotels because they control those hotels and what goes on there. They know if their guests have potentially-dangeous pets on property, they know what the condition of the rooms are, and they are in a position to change those conditions and correct safety issues.
AirBNB, on the other hand, does not inspect the properties it lists in its platform. It does not own, manage, or control them. It should not be held liable for what happens at the properties because it can't possibly know about or correct any issues that arise. That's part of the trade off travelers need to accept -- in exchange, you get lower prices, a more "authentic" experience, a wider variety of properties, and all the benefits of using AirBNB.
If you want full liability protection for the unexpected, either buy the insurance yourself or stay at a name brand hotel that provides that coverage (where you'll pay for it, partially in the form of higher rates). You can't have it both ways!
39
Airbnb disclaims liability on their web site, but that doesn't mean they can't be sued:
"*Please note that Airbnb has no control over the conduct of Hosts and disclaims all liability. Failure of Hosts to satisfy their responsibilities may result in suspension of activity or removal from the Airbnb website."
https://www.airbnb.com/support/responsible-hosting
"*Please note that Airbnb has no control over the conduct of Hosts and disclaims all liability. Failure of Hosts to satisfy their responsibilities may result in suspension of activity or removal from the Airbnb website."
https://www.airbnb.com/support/responsible-hosting
5
Anyone can sue anyone or any other entity; being able to sue doesn't mean that there are legal grounds that will allow a lawsuit to go forward.
4
Isn't the issue whether Airbnb can contract out of being responsible and opt not to exert control over the properties, while still being involved in the business as they are?
5
The Rottweiller was not attacking but reacting to an inappropriate approach from a stranger.
When approaching any strange dog first make sure the dogs owner approves the interaction. Stand beside the dog(not in their face),keep your hands at your sides. Let the dog approach you. Give the dog space and time to adjust to you. These are just simple basics. We own a dog rescue and have used this method successfully when meeting new dogs and when introducing them to potential adopters.
When approaching any strange dog first make sure the dogs owner approves the interaction. Stand beside the dog(not in their face),keep your hands at your sides. Let the dog approach you. Give the dog space and time to adjust to you. These are just simple basics. We own a dog rescue and have used this method successfully when meeting new dogs and when introducing them to potential adopters.
43
If the guest approached the dog inappropriately, then the host needs to let the guest know the appropriate manner or tell them not fool with the dog. I was taught to offer a stranger dog the back of my hand to sniff. Once the dog seemed comfortable, then I could pet it OR if the dog seemed stand offish--then let it be. However I had had stranger dogs immediately take to me. Every dog is different. The methods to how to approach a stranger dog, who may bite is not common knowledge, nor should guests be required to know just how a particular pet, not just dogs, will react. Informing guests about behavior around or with pets on the premises is part of being a host.
47
Why anyone would want to get within arm's reach of any large dog whose breed has a history of attacking people...period...
Sticking his hand out was just an invitation to be bitten--whether you infer the dog was frightened by the motion from a stranger or just looking for lunch...
If this man is as well-traveled and intelligent as the article makes him out, he should have known that was NOT a smart move...
Secondly he should have had a travel insurance policy to cover any medical treatment needed when out of the country...
And finally, choosing to use a "service" like AirBnB or Uber just comes with so many submerged threats that it wouldn't be worth it to me...
Too old, too skeptical, too conventional I guess...
Sticking his hand out was just an invitation to be bitten--whether you infer the dog was frightened by the motion from a stranger or just looking for lunch...
If this man is as well-traveled and intelligent as the article makes him out, he should have known that was NOT a smart move...
Secondly he should have had a travel insurance policy to cover any medical treatment needed when out of the country...
And finally, choosing to use a "service" like AirBnB or Uber just comes with so many submerged threats that it wouldn't be worth it to me...
Too old, too skeptical, too conventional I guess...
8
Blaming the victim much?
I have had and loved dogs most of my life, including a Rottie who gave me more laughs and chuckles than any other dog I've known. I would never approach a strange dog without the owner being present and giving permission and the dog being on a leash controlled by the owner.
The point is the Rottweiler was not listed on the accommodation description. I would never have allowed a stranger to enter my home when I had dogs unless the dog was restrained, and would certainly never allow someone to enter my home when I was not home. The accommodation owner was irresponsible to fail to list the Rottie in the description. If Airbnb doesn't require listing of animals in accommodation descriptions, I believe Airbnb is behaving irresponsibly.
I have had and loved dogs most of my life, including a Rottie who gave me more laughs and chuckles than any other dog I've known. I would never approach a strange dog without the owner being present and giving permission and the dog being on a leash controlled by the owner.
The point is the Rottweiler was not listed on the accommodation description. I would never have allowed a stranger to enter my home when I had dogs unless the dog was restrained, and would certainly never allow someone to enter my home when I was not home. The accommodation owner was irresponsible to fail to list the Rottie in the description. If Airbnb doesn't require listing of animals in accommodation descriptions, I believe Airbnb is behaving irresponsibly.
13
I don't fully understand why Air BnB should be liable.
If you're traveling, you should have health insurance to cover regardless. That onus is on the guest, and should be noted here regardless of fault.
But are hotels that accept pets regularly liable if a guest is hurt by one?
If that's the case, then OK - there should be a policy in place.
Still, the article should reflect more self-responsibility and be a good reminder that health insurance needs to be assessed before you travel.
If you're traveling, you should have health insurance to cover regardless. That onus is on the guest, and should be noted here regardless of fault.
But are hotels that accept pets regularly liable if a guest is hurt by one?
If that's the case, then OK - there should be a policy in place.
Still, the article should reflect more self-responsibility and be a good reminder that health insurance needs to be assessed before you travel.
16
"I don't fully understand why Air BnB should be liable."
Are using "liable" in a legal or an ethical sense?
"But are hotels that accept pets regularly liable if a guest is hurt by one?"
A US hotel owner is being sued for a dog attack in this case:
Victim of dog attack suing owner of dog, owners of hotel where it happened
Published January 01. 2015 12:01AM
By Joe Wojtas
http://www.theday.com/article/20150101/NWS01/301019298
Are using "liable" in a legal or an ethical sense?
"But are hotels that accept pets regularly liable if a guest is hurt by one?"
A US hotel owner is being sued for a dog attack in this case:
Victim of dog attack suing owner of dog, owners of hotel where it happened
Published January 01. 2015 12:01AM
By Joe Wojtas
http://www.theday.com/article/20150101/NWS01/301019298
7
Hotels and similar businesses take prudent care usually to prevent guests from being bitten by dogs. End of Story. I'm waiting for - sad to say and hope it never occurs - the almost predictable homicide that will occur now that society has decided that government regulation of the hotel industry can be left up to some software gurus and greedy, unlicensed "home hotel" operators.
28
I've had the pleasure of staying at one such hotel, and the difference was that the hotel disclosed that there would be pets at the establishment, so I had the privilege of making an informed choice. Air BnB might consider safety standards and disclosures that hosts must comply with.
1
I wonder if this is a broader insurance issue. My dog attacked and bit a visitor to my home, who later required treatment. His insurance covered the medical expenses, but apparently he would have been able to sue me for other liabilities even though the incident occurred on my property. Did Mr. Silverman have health insurance coverage, an absolute necessity when traveling outside of the US? Would this request for payment of medical expenses occur if this accident had happened stateside?
10
This is really not an issue of medical cost for my wife and I. Two days in a private room in the hospital, my ER treatment, visits from a trauma specialist and an infection specialist, all my meds, etc., came to less than $1,000US.
Having AirBnB assume responsibility is really about AirBnB acknowledging that they are in the hospitality business and that, unfortunately, sometimes people get hurt in hospitality settings through no fault of their own. Yes, AirBnB has a different business model. But, similar to a franchised hotel structure, they are giving their hospitality brand, marketing, and payment infrastucture to affiliated properties; and putting guests in those properties. AirBnB also makes money from both their hosts and their guests. What they don't do is accept the liability that accrues from running a hospitality business. A liability that the rest of the hospitality sector acknowledges and insures. Rather, AirBnB expects individual hosts and guests to assume all liability risk, a risk that oftentimes these individuals don't even understand. That, I think, has to change.
In my communication with AirBnB, I have asked for more than just reimbursement of my out-of-pocket costs. I have asked them to make changes to their business practices to help ensure that both hosts and guests are a) safer and b) not left dangling when something unfortunate occurs.
Having AirBnB assume responsibility is really about AirBnB acknowledging that they are in the hospitality business and that, unfortunately, sometimes people get hurt in hospitality settings through no fault of their own. Yes, AirBnB has a different business model. But, similar to a franchised hotel structure, they are giving their hospitality brand, marketing, and payment infrastucture to affiliated properties; and putting guests in those properties. AirBnB also makes money from both their hosts and their guests. What they don't do is accept the liability that accrues from running a hospitality business. A liability that the rest of the hospitality sector acknowledges and insures. Rather, AirBnB expects individual hosts and guests to assume all liability risk, a risk that oftentimes these individuals don't even understand. That, I think, has to change.
In my communication with AirBnB, I have asked for more than just reimbursement of my out-of-pocket costs. I have asked them to make changes to their business practices to help ensure that both hosts and guests are a) safer and b) not left dangling when something unfortunate occurs.
324
I am not a fan of Airbnb, but in reality Airbnb is only a source for finding accommodations. Should Expedia, Booking, Hotels, Priceline, and the many other OTA's as well as Homeaway, VRBO, and Tripadvisor's rental site be subject to the same.
The answer is NO!
This is the responsibility of the accommodation and should be dealt with directly. That would be what anyone would do if it was a hotel. What it appears to be by my eyes is that someone else has to be at fault and the guest seems to be looking to place the blame on the most easy target.
The answer is NO!
This is the responsibility of the accommodation and should be dealt with directly. That would be what anyone would do if it was a hotel. What it appears to be by my eyes is that someone else has to be at fault and the guest seems to be looking to place the blame on the most easy target.
16
I have a fair bit of sympathy for this line of reasoning. Then again, untold numbers of people would not be in the business of renting homes and rooms were it not for Airbnb making it so easy/possible. The same can't be said of hotels on Expedia -- the hotels would be there whether or not Expedia exists. Airbnb wants way, way, way more people to host in their homes -- it will die if people don't in fact. So it is encouraging people to get into business, through Airbnb, to rent the rooms and homes.
44
I left the property telling the host I didn't feel safe with this arrangement and requesting that we come to an agreement to cancel the 30-day stay for a reasonable percentage to compensate him for the hassle/loss of having to re-rent it out (please note it was still available two days prior to my 30 day booking).
Airbnb has refused to help intervene in terms of a refund for me, so it appears they haven't learned their lesson at all from ensuring safety for their guests.