Mr. Abrams, do not assume that liberal Jews will return to supporting Israel. Why would we? In recent years Israel rather than a bulwark for Judaism has become an embarrassment and an argument for anti-Semitism. As a 68 year old liberal jew who voted for Obama, as we all did, I am offended by Netanyahu's behavior and i feel no identity with that country anymore. I will not return to supporting it unless it starts acting like the progressive democracy it once was. I doubt it ever will with it's growing population of anti-democratic zealots and anti-Palestinian cynics.
3
I've now read two posts in the past few minutes that claim Netanyahu won a majority of the vote in the Israeli election. In fact Likud won just 30 of the 120 seats in the Knesset. Is the fact that NYT readers think he won a majority the result of bad reporting in the American media or inattentiveness by the commentators here? I've seen so many headlines suggesting Netanyahu won some decisive victory when the reality is very different from that. He will remain Prime Minister by courting the more extreme parties to his right and forming a coalition government, not because he won a "majority" or even a very substantial plurality of the seats in the Knesset.
Netanyahu did better than the polls were predicting, but that's a far cry from saying he won a "majority" or even a "decisive" victory. The question remains what goodies will he have to dole out to potential coalition partners to attract their support.
Netanyahu did better than the polls were predicting, but that's a far cry from saying he won a "majority" or even a "decisive" victory. The question remains what goodies will he have to dole out to potential coalition partners to attract their support.
1
The shock of the capture of John Walker Lindh, the “American Taliban,” in 2001, so overshadowed any understanding of why he turned to a violent form of Islam that after more than a decade, our military commanders confess to being caught off guard by ISIS. They have only begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal to a tiny group of young people today. Even President Obama has expressed confusion about ISIS.
Israel has had to face terrorists of all stripes from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. It’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy of dealing with radicals by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic at home. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in pushing Washington to accept his no holds barred approach regardless of vital US diplomatic on-going efforts.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. President Obama should continue to reaffirm unwavering support for Israel while pointing out the dangers with fear mongering politicians anywhere, thereby earning greater respect from all Americans and Israeli’s.
Israel has had to face terrorists of all stripes from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. It’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy of dealing with radicals by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic at home. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in pushing Washington to accept his no holds barred approach regardless of vital US diplomatic on-going efforts.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. President Obama should continue to reaffirm unwavering support for Israel while pointing out the dangers with fear mongering politicians anywhere, thereby earning greater respect from all Americans and Israeli’s.
1
Maybe the next question to ask is, "do some Republicans (other than the evangelical ones) and Israel have a future together." I didn't count but the number of American Jews saying they will continue to support the Democratic Party far outweighs those who are saying they will move to the Republican Party.
Although AIPAC's influence may be outsize, do the math: the American Jewish population equals about 2% of the US votes. I've also read quite a few comments (to my surprise) from self-identified Independents and Republicans who say they are now going to vote the Dem ticket because of this issue.
It would be in the best interest of Israel to also not take for granted some Republican and Independent votes (of course not Tea Party) because there may be equal if not greater defections to the Democratic Party.
Again, the Democrats did not make Israel into a partisan issue -- you can chalk this up to Netanyahu and Dermer. And, it's not the job of Clinton or the Democrats to fix this.
Although AIPAC's influence may be outsize, do the math: the American Jewish population equals about 2% of the US votes. I've also read quite a few comments (to my surprise) from self-identified Independents and Republicans who say they are now going to vote the Dem ticket because of this issue.
It would be in the best interest of Israel to also not take for granted some Republican and Independent votes (of course not Tea Party) because there may be equal if not greater defections to the Democratic Party.
Again, the Democrats did not make Israel into a partisan issue -- you can chalk this up to Netanyahu and Dermer. And, it's not the job of Clinton or the Democrats to fix this.
Mr.Dermer -- I am a 51 year old American Jew and most emphatically DO NOT agree with Israel's current policies and leadership.
1
Mr. Abrams point about youth is valid. He does not seem to see the context, however, and the looming danger of this new rise of anti-semitism and racism spreading in much of the world. There is a resurgence of radical hatred well beyond that we see from the edges of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
We live in a nation where privileged kids sing jovial lynching songs and minorities are attacked with regularity and few consequences. Our world, especially in the EU now, is seeing constant open attacks of Jewish people. Something should be frighteningly familiar to older people here. Perhaps Mr. Abrams is not quite old enough.
We live in a nation where privileged kids sing jovial lynching songs and minorities are attacked with regularity and few consequences. Our world, especially in the EU now, is seeing constant open attacks of Jewish people. Something should be frighteningly familiar to older people here. Perhaps Mr. Abrams is not quite old enough.
Binyamin Netanyahu has made a serious mistake. He has basically said to Americans, "if you hate me, you hate Israel." "If you hate me, you're anti-Semitic." For a start no one takes kindly to this kind of moral blackmail, particularly when Netanyahu has shamelessly courted Republicans who do not necessarily love either Jews or Israel. They look to Israel has bringing on the End Times forecast in the Book of Revelation. He has turned the Israeli Government into the paramilitary wing of the Republican Party, and this is neither wise nor patriotic. For the record, I am not anti-Semitic, I support Israel's right to exist in peace within secure frontiers, but I happen to believe this will best be achieved by bringing about peace and stability throughout the Middle East, by reaching rapprochements with, for instance, the Iranian Government. Netanyahu has shown that, while Israel needs peace and stability, he personally needs war and instability to get himself re-elected. Well, now he has been, but the price for his irresponsible actions must now be paid.
Younger Democrats are tending to be more secular than in years past. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state.
Democrats rejected apartheid in South Africa. Why would they embrace it in Israel?
Intermittent armed conflict in perpetuity is a ghastly and tiresome prospect. Don't expect Americans of any party to sign on. How much of the Palestinian-Arab-Israeli conflict could be ended by having all of Jerusalem become a United Nations protectorate? Where is the leadership on all sides that will put furthering life ahead of fighting over jointly-sacred real estate and icons?
If a Jewish state expects American support longer-term, its leaders need to soon demonstrate leadership to exit this morass.
Democrats rejected apartheid in South Africa. Why would they embrace it in Israel?
Intermittent armed conflict in perpetuity is a ghastly and tiresome prospect. Don't expect Americans of any party to sign on. How much of the Palestinian-Arab-Israeli conflict could be ended by having all of Jerusalem become a United Nations protectorate? Where is the leadership on all sides that will put furthering life ahead of fighting over jointly-sacred real estate and icons?
If a Jewish state expects American support longer-term, its leaders need to soon demonstrate leadership to exit this morass.
Benjamin Netanyahu's vote-pandering antics prior to his 4th term election is no big deal. He correctly read the Israeli electorate even when recent voter polls did not, then, like any good politician, did what he had to do to stay in power, which was his sole objective anyway. After the election, by walking back his statement about no two-state solution being possible under his watch, he has only made obvious what his detractors have said about him for years, which is that he is dishonest and unscrupulous.
As this election and its turnout fade into history, everyone will assume their former political positions regarding Israel, the Palestinians, and how to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions. Why? Because there are no options to do anything else. The Obama administration's position is the closest thing which passes for liberal honesty in America, and it will continue to butt heads with Netanyahu and his staunch allies among conservative Jews, evangelical Christians, and Republican war hawks.
Is this brouhaha a big problem for Hillary Clinton? No. She is a bit more hawkish than Obama, and can use it to distance herself from him and reset the American-Israel relationship by making nice with Netanyahu and the Israeli right. But what she does will make very little difference in the long run. Israel has never had any intentions of accommodating the Palestinians, the Iranians, or the Arabs in the Middle East. It's all just talk and lies.
2
The issue for Jewish liberals is not whether they support Israel. The issue is what will a world for Jewish liberals look like without Israel? A world for Jewish liberals without Israel has a very checkered history. Maybe the current westside Manhattan Jewish liberals won't have to worry but will their grandchildren and great grandchildren have the same liberties and securities? That is the real question. I guess we can check back in 2115 or perhaps go back to 1915 to the times of Rosa Luxembourg for some historical guidance
.
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Words matter. Had netanyahu said " the joint list voters are turning out in droves" would there be such an uproar? Of course, the joint list is 100% Arab. Had he said " there is no condition present that permits a two-state solution" would we necessarily disagree? Why do we not hear dissenting Palestinian views? Are all Palestinians in 100% support of Fatah and Hama's? There's not a single Palestinian who feels they would be better off making peace first, and then pursuing national aspirations? Yet, we hear numerous voices of opposition from within Israel regarding policy and politics. This is the difference between a free democracy and....something less. I don't support all of Israel's actions, but I am able to see the realities of the situation. As a Jew, and a life long democrat, if the Obama administration should remove the US veto in the UNSC, I would likely remove my support for the party.
1
I'm really not getting why the opinion of these two on Democrats and Israel is worthy of note, let alone record. Aside from both being Republicans and already having a jaundiced view of Democrats, one, Abrams, was cited for lying before Congress for his testimony on Iran Contra. One can just imagine his scorn if an anti-Netanyahu voice who had been found to be a liar was treated by the New York Times as some seer on Israel.
The other, Dermer, before becoming Israel's Ambassador to the US was a political operative for the Republicans (read hack; both parties have them in profusion). For self-righteous arrogance, he could give Netanyahu a run for his money and his "advocacy" for Israel seems calculated to lose Israel as many liberal Democratic supporters of the state as possible.
What's next: the comments of an IRA member on "Politics in Great Britain"?
The other, Dermer, before becoming Israel's Ambassador to the US was a political operative for the Republicans (read hack; both parties have them in profusion). For self-righteous arrogance, he could give Netanyahu a run for his money and his "advocacy" for Israel seems calculated to lose Israel as many liberal Democratic supporters of the state as possible.
What's next: the comments of an IRA member on "Politics in Great Britain"?
1
Democracy is like a rubber band, you can adapt it to various circumstances, but if you pull it too much it will brake and its consequence is an authoritarian drift.
The Democrats' idea of State is for me, and the George Lakoff's definitions, is a lay State which educates the young generations to Tolerance towards others ideas, religions, cultures, as opposite to the Republican dominant father which educates his sons to rule over others on the basis of his/her self interest only, so educating according the strict method: like father, like son.
In this optic Israel is not a lay State, but a Religious State, since non-Yews don't have the same civil rights.
Being Yews means also having a precise cultural background and ancestors origin, therefore non-Yews belong to a different race, so Israel implicitly a racist State.
The racist side of Israel has been exasperated by the last elections, but was born from the 1947 Ben-Gurion's free-immigration law for all Yews, then the way all Israeli Governments considered Palestinians as sub-humans to be dominated, jailed, targeted killed or mass punished, named terrorists and not Partisans which fight for their land right and freedom.
Resuming all this, true Democrats cannot have a joint future with the today's Israel, but only after an Israel's real basic political direction change toward Tolerance and after that its government will fulfill all the UNO resolutions since 1947.
The Democrats' idea of State is for me, and the George Lakoff's definitions, is a lay State which educates the young generations to Tolerance towards others ideas, religions, cultures, as opposite to the Republican dominant father which educates his sons to rule over others on the basis of his/her self interest only, so educating according the strict method: like father, like son.
In this optic Israel is not a lay State, but a Religious State, since non-Yews don't have the same civil rights.
Being Yews means also having a precise cultural background and ancestors origin, therefore non-Yews belong to a different race, so Israel implicitly a racist State.
The racist side of Israel has been exasperated by the last elections, but was born from the 1947 Ben-Gurion's free-immigration law for all Yews, then the way all Israeli Governments considered Palestinians as sub-humans to be dominated, jailed, targeted killed or mass punished, named terrorists and not Partisans which fight for their land right and freedom.
Resuming all this, true Democrats cannot have a joint future with the today's Israel, but only after an Israel's real basic political direction change toward Tolerance and after that its government will fulfill all the UNO resolutions since 1947.
1
I am a non-Jew who has always supported Israel and its right to defend itself -- just take a look at the upswing of anti-Semitism in Europe, the madness never stops. I can't think of any other country that's expected to sit idly by and let missiles come flying in at its citizens.
That said, the Netanyahu philosophy of more settlements and de-legitimizing Israeli Arabs is indefensible. Mr. Dermer can list the internal progressive laws all he wants, it doesn't justify the West Bank wall. Apartheid really is an accurate analogy -- South African whites enjoyed one of the highest standards of living in the world and they had a functioning, real democracy...but only among white people.
Netanyahu's is a short-sighted approach designed to make him look like a successful defender of the state in the short term while allowing hatred and resentments among Palestinians to grow. It helps groups like Hamas when young Palestinians feel impotent and desperate.
Similarly, his courting of just one American party gives him short-term peace but breeds long-time trouble.
The pattern is clear. I'm sure Mr. Netanyahu is sincere in his beliefs, but it isn't a stretch to look at his actions and think "after him the deluge". He will have caused it.
That said, the Netanyahu philosophy of more settlements and de-legitimizing Israeli Arabs is indefensible. Mr. Dermer can list the internal progressive laws all he wants, it doesn't justify the West Bank wall. Apartheid really is an accurate analogy -- South African whites enjoyed one of the highest standards of living in the world and they had a functioning, real democracy...but only among white people.
Netanyahu's is a short-sighted approach designed to make him look like a successful defender of the state in the short term while allowing hatred and resentments among Palestinians to grow. It helps groups like Hamas when young Palestinians feel impotent and desperate.
Similarly, his courting of just one American party gives him short-term peace but breeds long-time trouble.
The pattern is clear. I'm sure Mr. Netanyahu is sincere in his beliefs, but it isn't a stretch to look at his actions and think "after him the deluge". He will have caused it.
Israel has voted, and has now gone along with mister Netanyahu, tail wagging the dog, alas... There are those who like to insist that Israel is not its leadership any more that America is its own often blind and destructive Congress persons. Worth remembering are these points that date back to assertions made by Israel's very first president, Chaim Weizmann (and nothing has really changed much, except that more of former Palestine has been destroyed ....) The country's objectives remain still as such: "Weizmann stated at the conference that "the Zionist objective was gradually to make Palestine as Jewish as England was English" & "Even if all the governments of the world gave us a country, it would only be a gift of words. But if the Jewish people will go build Palestine, the Jewish State will become a reality—a fact."
...I have already stated and reiterate: No more support for Israel until they get rid of mister Netanyahu and his think-alikes. Until then, as a long long long time Democrat, I could not support any Democrat who does not have the guts to stop wasting my tax dollars on Netanyahu & Company's aggressive and expansionist policies for Israel.
...I have already stated and reiterate: No more support for Israel until they get rid of mister Netanyahu and his think-alikes. Until then, as a long long long time Democrat, I could not support any Democrat who does not have the guts to stop wasting my tax dollars on Netanyahu & Company's aggressive and expansionist policies for Israel.
5
Israelis face a fundamentally different calculus when thinking of the future. We Americans assume peace is natural, for them it is not and a majority no longer even believe it possible in our lifetimes. But this is only the beginning of the rift between American Jews and Israelis. Conceived as a natural haven and refuge, Israel is now a brutal garrison state and occupier, also inconceivable to most Americans. Add to that the rise of fundamentalist political power, with the norms and attitudes that it imposes, and you have an alien land that appears more and more like its neighbors than a western state.
2
Sad that African-Americans are more likely than others to be critical of Israel. Jews were very active in the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s, much more than WASPs. A people got 90 percent of its members in Europe decimated by Nazis, and when they tried to make a home for themselves in an area they'd lived in for thousands of years, Arab countries tried to stop them and still carry on to this day. But, oh, Israelis are the oppressors. Sure.
Anyone supporting Netanyahu and Israel, Democrat or Republican at this sad juncture should have their principles questioned. Racism, apartheid, peace-resistance, genocide, land grab, breaking all international laws - with Israel we become mice afraid to denounce them. The red line cannot get any redder. In spite of all the blatant, defiant stand by Israel we are questioning what our Plan Of Action should be. We destroyed a country, let loose terror in the ME, all on the advice of this country with a LYING Prime Minister. At the risk of sounding like an anti-semite ( I AM NOT!!!) everything is not about Israel and the Jews. Yes, the terrible holocaust should never, ever happened. It was an absolute loss of humanity of so called humans. But the present day Jews seem to be defining themselves with that. It is a very shameful part of History to be remembered but not to be repeated. There are many such horrors which have happened with other peoples too. But they do not cry 'Fire' everytime something happens to them. They do not ask for recompense for past atrocities. So why is Israel so special especially when it has become the very essence from which they escaped. We had nothing to do with the Holocaust. As a matter of fact we were the liberators . Then why are we carrying a guilt complex. Why are we letting Israel get away with anything and everything. Should we shoulder all the guilt for all the bad that is happening or happened in the rest of the world?
3
The fate of Israel is a spectator sport in New York, imagine the consequences of another mistake like the Gaza giveback for the people who actually live there. For the people of Israel the naiveté and safe moral outrage of the rest of the world is of little concern, each and every morning they wake up knowing they are surrounded by people who simply want them dead. It would be best if the Times and so many of the people who comment here let go of some of the hyperbole and bombast and consider the fact that what they hoped for didn't happen, that the people of Israel elected Netanyahu, and he is the closest thing the United States has to being a friend in the immediate vicinity. Try to rationalize why Netanyahu was reelected and stop vilifying him.
Israel's problem is simple: It is a violently neo-colonial state on the19th century model trying all too successfully to strip the Indians of their land, resources and lives--in 2015. What an overwhelming majority of Americans and Europeans supported in 1850, an increasing majority recognizes as grossly immoral today.
And they're right.
And they're right.
3
A two state solition was never and never will be an option. It is inevitable that Israel and Iran including Her Islamic Sisters will destroy each other. It all comes back to Religion, not politics. The political zionists won WW2, the fascists and right wing socialists saw this coming. A sovereign state of Israel would cause eventual mass destruction, it is the perfect stormed backed by religious fervor. It is going to slowly but surely lead to war, possibly WW3. Me being a Christian I am assuming Israel takes the cake in the end but with it causing horrible destruction. The Bible says it will take seven months to bury the dead. America needs to be one throughout winning side not the right side because this nation is all ready on brincs of chaos itself. I hope the young (I am 19) will not mess this up, sadly liberalism is great but iit's long term intentions only lead to absolute atheistic chaos. God bless America and Israel.
Up into the beginning of the 20th century, everything was so quiet in the middle east, the outside world did not even know if the middle east existed or not, we did not even know the names of the middle eastern countries because they would not appear in the western media, it was so quiet and tranquil. Up until then we had extreme violence prevailing all outside the middle east, in America with the systematic killing of more than a million non-christian natives and then in Europe culminating in the disastrous world wars. Up until 1948 when a drastic measure of atrocity was unleashed upon the middle eastern people. And then came the Afghanistan war, followed by the Iraq wars, then Yemen, Libya, currently Syria, next target Iran. Countless experts cautioned the muslim hating religious maniacs Bush and Blair (B&B), that invading these countries and bringing about a regime change would liberate the criminals in the society, would lead to inter-faction rivalries like Shia Sunni conflicts, would lead to millions of deaths, complete anarchy, complete break down of the society, but B&B just ignored the experts because this is exactly what they wanted, destruction of the middle east, destruction of the muslim lands. And I would say that B&B have been quite successful as can be seen in these daily occurrences in the middle east. B&B devised this plan of destruction, diligently followed up by their successors in government, all in order to eliminate any dissent against the 1948 entity.
1
The liberal Jews, non-Jews, and especially the very impressionable kids on college campuses, who think Hamas are freedom fighters and that they are concerned with helping the downtrodden and the oppressed, need to wake up to the fact that they are radical extremists who, just like those from ISIS, want nothing other than a worldwide caliphate (watch this video - http://bit.ly/SonOfHamasLeaderTellsAll).
And when the bad guys come, and these Jewish or non-Jewish Hamas supporters raise their hands and say, "I am on your team, don't kill me," they'll throw them a Koran and a mat, and say "thanks, now hit the deck, face east and pray."
And if they don't, they'll lop their sorry misguided heads off with their ISIS swords.
Be careful what you wish for.
And when the bad guys come, and these Jewish or non-Jewish Hamas supporters raise their hands and say, "I am on your team, don't kill me," they'll throw them a Koran and a mat, and say "thanks, now hit the deck, face east and pray."
And if they don't, they'll lop their sorry misguided heads off with their ISIS swords.
Be careful what you wish for.
1
Horowitz glosses over the topic of how/why Congressional support, aside from the CUFI crowd is groomed by AIPAC/rightwingers.
For instance, he doesn't tell us whose money groomed Sen. Cotton's political career. How the likes of Bill Kristol promoted his political career with a single purpose in mind: get someone who puts Israeli interests ahead of US interests into the Senate. He hasn't told us this isn't a unique phenomenon, but it happens all over the country and undermines our democracy.
Yes, there are lots of lobby groups, but only ONE that buys politicians to support positions that benefit a foreign country at the detriment of our own interests.
For instance, he doesn't tell us whose money groomed Sen. Cotton's political career. How the likes of Bill Kristol promoted his political career with a single purpose in mind: get someone who puts Israeli interests ahead of US interests into the Senate. He hasn't told us this isn't a unique phenomenon, but it happens all over the country and undermines our democracy.
Yes, there are lots of lobby groups, but only ONE that buys politicians to support positions that benefit a foreign country at the detriment of our own interests.
2
Why is the treatment of gays and other minorities in the Muslim world at all relevant?
Yes, its true Israel is not the world's worst human rights abuser.
But it is the only one my nation is arming and enabling to carry out more abuses. And it is the only one to whom my nation gives moral sanction.
Yes, its true Israel is not the world's worst human rights abuser.
But it is the only one my nation is arming and enabling to carry out more abuses. And it is the only one to whom my nation gives moral sanction.
2
The slights from Mr. Netanyahu that Pres. Obama refuses to forgive or overlook are comparable to some that Pres. Obama has inflicted. For instance, a 20 year affiliation with someone he called his "second father," Rev. Jeremiah Wright. These slights are just an excuse for Pres. Obama and many of his Democratic left wing cohorts to favor the Palestinians and Iranians and ignore the real threat of annihilation to Israel. A registered Democrat my entire voting tenure I will not vote for a Democratic president in the future unless there is a drastic change in the way Israel and yes, Jews, are treated by Democratic elected officials. While my local senators and congressman are wonderful, there are others such as Donna Edwards who have stated malicious lies about Israel.
The Israel right or wrong wing of the Democratic party, also known as, Wall Street panderers and warmongers, need to leave the party.
Dermer et al, have and will continue to spend 100s of millions (untaxed funds) in their attempts to kosherize occupation and subjugation of Palestinians on their own lands, but will never convince a single progressive on the virtues of the same.
Hillary Clinton will LOSE on this issue. No matter what she does, her past has married her to Wall Street, and to war hawks, which happen to be often the same crowd. No amount of cleverly constructed talking points is going to endear her to progressives. And anyone who thinks we have no choice but to vote for her, is a total fool. I will vote for Rand Paul, a man unlikely to pander to that crowd or start wars, before I ever vote for a Clinton.
Dermer et al, have and will continue to spend 100s of millions (untaxed funds) in their attempts to kosherize occupation and subjugation of Palestinians on their own lands, but will never convince a single progressive on the virtues of the same.
Hillary Clinton will LOSE on this issue. No matter what she does, her past has married her to Wall Street, and to war hawks, which happen to be often the same crowd. No amount of cleverly constructed talking points is going to endear her to progressives. And anyone who thinks we have no choice but to vote for her, is a total fool. I will vote for Rand Paul, a man unlikely to pander to that crowd or start wars, before I ever vote for a Clinton.
So Ironic
Question:
Which country in the Middle East provides - by far - the best quality of life for both ARAB MEN and ARAB WOMEN? Health care, education, housing, democratic voting, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc.?
Answer: Israel
Imagine the quality of life for residents of West Bank and Gaza - if Israel governed those territories. They would have infrastructure, hospitals, schools, an economy, tourism. They would have a life instead of misery.
Name one other country in the Middle East where Arab (non millionaire) residents have a better life than they do in Israel.
Fretting about US aid to Israel - I'd be more concerned about US dollars going to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya and all the rest of those who "love" us so dearly in that region. There's a reason why democracies fail so miserably in the Middle East and why monarchies and military strongmen prevail.
The Arab Spring is a fantasy. Time to wake up.
Question:
Which country in the Middle East provides - by far - the best quality of life for both ARAB MEN and ARAB WOMEN? Health care, education, housing, democratic voting, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc.?
Answer: Israel
Imagine the quality of life for residents of West Bank and Gaza - if Israel governed those territories. They would have infrastructure, hospitals, schools, an economy, tourism. They would have a life instead of misery.
Name one other country in the Middle East where Arab (non millionaire) residents have a better life than they do in Israel.
Fretting about US aid to Israel - I'd be more concerned about US dollars going to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya and all the rest of those who "love" us so dearly in that region. There's a reason why democracies fail so miserably in the Middle East and why monarchies and military strongmen prevail.
The Arab Spring is a fantasy. Time to wake up.
2
Policy and political issues aside, here are some "facts on the ground": three of my baby-boomer Jewish friends, all with strong emotional and in one case family ties to Israel, are saying things I'd never imagine they would have said. Each is beginning to wonder whether US support should end, whether we are not in fact encouraging Israel in its rush toward international isolation and apartheid. Yes, they've used that word. These are not college students who have attended pro-Palestinian rallies and heard only the denunciation of Israel. These are Jews who were Bar Mitvah'd attended synagogues, and have traveled to Israel many times. Dermer and Netanyahu obviously think they can write off young, liberal American Jews. But can they afford to write off these people? Do they really want to bet on the support of Evangelical Christians instead? Are they that naive?
Ally ? What has Israel ever done for the United States ?
Seriously, someone outline how Israel contributes to the security of the United States, the world, or anywhere other than Israel.
Instead of ally, think LEECH.
A small list of how Israel has hurt the United States
1) Billions of dollars per year directly and indirectly to subsidize Israel.
2) The 9-11 attacks. Yes, 9-11. If you go back and listen to what Bin Laden said, he directly put the rational of the attacks on our support of Israel. In particular our supplying weapons to Israel.
3) The on-going turmoil in Syria, Iraq, and Afganistan all have roots in Israel. American blood continues to be shed so that Israel can hold onto the territory it conquered in 1967 and 1974.
Briten is an ally, Germany is an ally, even poor Italy is an ally, but Israel is just a blood and dollar sucking leech.
Seriously, someone outline how Israel contributes to the security of the United States, the world, or anywhere other than Israel.
Instead of ally, think LEECH.
A small list of how Israel has hurt the United States
1) Billions of dollars per year directly and indirectly to subsidize Israel.
2) The 9-11 attacks. Yes, 9-11. If you go back and listen to what Bin Laden said, he directly put the rational of the attacks on our support of Israel. In particular our supplying weapons to Israel.
3) The on-going turmoil in Syria, Iraq, and Afganistan all have roots in Israel. American blood continues to be shed so that Israel can hold onto the territory it conquered in 1967 and 1974.
Briten is an ally, Germany is an ally, even poor Italy is an ally, but Israel is just a blood and dollar sucking leech.
2
Since the Israeli election, there are of course the occasional posts to the effect that "hey, politicians say things and then reverse after the election, so what's the big deal". Fine, now suppose some Republican politician mobilized his Christian base with "the Jews always vote Democratic in droves", so be sure and come out and vote lest "they" take over the government"; then, after being elected, intoned "but really I love the Jews", those Jewish posters who think, obviously like Dermer and Abrams, that its a triviality that Netanyahu similarly insulted Israeli Arabs would now (rightly) be screaming "Nazi" and "anti-Semite". As Jewish myself, I have to ask them: "you can't abide it if done to you, but can applaud rightwing Jews like Netanyahu who dish it out against a non-Jewish minority in Israel, is that it"?
What we have here is a circle of revenge begetting revenge that has become raised to the level of existential threat in the minds of both Israelis and Palestinians.
As a once automatic, uncritical supporter of Israel in my youth (protestant, not jewish), I have increasingly become disgusted with what amounts to an Israeli pogrom against the Palestinians.
Why doesn't it occur to the Israeli hard right, for whom Bibi is the figurehead / spokesman, that continuing their past and current policies will only get them more of the same?
As a once automatic, uncritical supporter of Israel in my youth (protestant, not jewish), I have increasingly become disgusted with what amounts to an Israeli pogrom against the Palestinians.
Why doesn't it occur to the Israeli hard right, for whom Bibi is the figurehead / spokesman, that continuing their past and current policies will only get them more of the same?
2
Dermer is absolutely correct. We are not going to listen to him. Period.
What's with this alleged schism that only Democrats have an issue with Prime Minister Netanyahu's policies? I'm sure Mr. Abrams, deservedly tainted by Iran Contra doesn't speak for all conservatives, or all Jewish Americans. Mr. Jeremy Ben-Ami a founder of J-Street, a progressive Jewish advocacy group, also possesses White House staffer credentials he could have provided a more compelling description of why his group does not support Netanyahu's policies.
From a bridge in Selma to the prison cells of Rikers Island, to the Gaza Strip, history’s verdict is clear: apartheid is not sustainable. In two more years under Netanyahu's warmongering the people of Israel will by then truly be ready for change. America had the same reaction after eight years of George W Bush's disastrous policies.
From a bridge in Selma to the prison cells of Rikers Island, to the Gaza Strip, history’s verdict is clear: apartheid is not sustainable. In two more years under Netanyahu's warmongering the people of Israel will by then truly be ready for change. America had the same reaction after eight years of George W Bush's disastrous policies.
What an exercise in irrelevant wool gathering. The subject of this article was utterly pointless, a minor sideshow perhaps but nothing more.
What someone should address - and I have not seen a single word written, not heard a peep uttered in the media - is the mindset of the looming Hispanic majority in America. Hint (in a loud stage whisper): it's not favorable towards Israel. To the average Hispanic immigrant - and I make a point to always broach issues like this in conversation on my worksites - the subject of support for Israel fluctuates between bemused confusion (why???) or outright abhorence over what they see as an absurdly imbalanced relationship that in now way shape or form will ever benefit America. I have yet to meet a single Latino who voices support of any kind for Israel. And when you think about it, why not? Hispanics join the military and fight in combat units in numbers higher than their ratio to the whole population. The children of Jews - liberal or conservative - do not join the military. The writing is on the wall if you take the trouble to read it.
What someone should address - and I have not seen a single word written, not heard a peep uttered in the media - is the mindset of the looming Hispanic majority in America. Hint (in a loud stage whisper): it's not favorable towards Israel. To the average Hispanic immigrant - and I make a point to always broach issues like this in conversation on my worksites - the subject of support for Israel fluctuates between bemused confusion (why???) or outright abhorence over what they see as an absurdly imbalanced relationship that in now way shape or form will ever benefit America. I have yet to meet a single Latino who voices support of any kind for Israel. And when you think about it, why not? Hispanics join the military and fight in combat units in numbers higher than their ratio to the whole population. The children of Jews - liberal or conservative - do not join the military. The writing is on the wall if you take the trouble to read it.
1
If we are going to cut Israel dead because of their imperfections. could somebody from the White House please list the perfections of the countries we now have supportive relations with? What a joke! Saudi Arabia cuts off heads and stones women to death for adultery. Haven't heard from the Great One in the oval office about that.
“…And so Netanyahu has essentially thrown his lot in with the Republicans. His open hostility to Obama has infuriated Democrats. When he spoke to Congress this month — an invitation he accepted from the speaker of the House, John Boehner, without informing the White House — several Democratic members refused to attend. Significantly, the boycotting congressmen included members of the Congressional Black Caucus, an indication about the feelings of the party’s base…”
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Israel has been under a barrage of attacks since, and including, the day it became a Jewish state, May 14, 1948. The hope of securing a lasting peace agreement amid the sectarian violence and state-sponsored terrorism in the Middle East is wishful naïveté. A two-state solution with the Palestinians, home to Hamas, is all but leaving the back door of the house open to intruders with a flickering ‘Open’ neon light and the ‘welcome mat’ swept off.
Why isn't there any questioning going on about Kerry and Biden meeting with Isaac Herzog informally in Munich the day after it was announced BOTH would be boycotting Netanyahu's speech to Congress? http://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-kerry-both-set-to-skip-pms-congress-s...
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Israel has been under a barrage of attacks since, and including, the day it became a Jewish state, May 14, 1948. The hope of securing a lasting peace agreement amid the sectarian violence and state-sponsored terrorism in the Middle East is wishful naïveté. A two-state solution with the Palestinians, home to Hamas, is all but leaving the back door of the house open to intruders with a flickering ‘Open’ neon light and the ‘welcome mat’ swept off.
Why isn't there any questioning going on about Kerry and Biden meeting with Isaac Herzog informally in Munich the day after it was announced BOTH would be boycotting Netanyahu's speech to Congress? http://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-kerry-both-set-to-skip-pms-congress-s...
2
Israel is the west's baby, a big baby. Even the prime minister cries. Israel has to be the local example or it just blends in to sit among its blighted neighbours. Sensible people expect a complete outcome on the palestinian state homeland question with maturity, confidence and motion toward living well with its neighbour. The settlements? The senate visit? (On the other hand why so patient with Hamas? Very patient.) My personal view is that Israel has a 20% chance of seeing in 2048. And you know why. The holy land is definitely not the cradle of civilization and look at Greece. It has cashed its emotional chips and now only has jackals at its table. Young people are rational and sadly so rational that they compare each relative merit. No blind faith. They want to see in 2048.
As a 60 year old Jewish man born to a post Holocaust family, I am extremely conflicted. Israel, we were taught, is the land of milk and honey. My feeling for Israel was totally of heart; it must survive, non-negotiable. As an American I have great difficulty with the Republican party; every part of it and I revere my President. When Netanyahu addressed our Congress it was most repugnant and disrespectful. My parents are now long dead and they would never imagine a day when their Son could even doubt the State of Israel. I would enjoy an healthy dialogue with my childhood friends now living in Israel but to them it is Bibi's way or the highway. Thus, I fear bringing up the topic. As with all we see in 2015, I now ask myself, how did we get to this place?
The last thing the US needs or should pursue, is a war with Iran. Iran is a 6000 year old civilization, and the regional power. Time for the US to stop sending $ to an increasingly racist Israel, who want to now disenfranchise the 2m Palestinians living within the borders of what Israel is today. Time for Israel to face up to itself in the mirror - an extremist country, who are running the Gaza prison . And time for us to disengage from subsidizing the nuclear power no one in US politics have the guts to admit HAVE nuclear power. Our congressional politicians are hypocrites. All of them. Particularly our republican right wing nut cases.
1
President Obama and many others are incensed by Mr. Netanyahu's ambiguous "disavowal" of the two-state solution that he openly supported in 2009. Now the President is re-assessing the US's relationship with Israel.
But didn't the President say unequivocally that the US will always "have Israel's back"? Evidently, this isn't true. Or it's conditional on Israel behaving the way the US wants it to. Now that it's not behaving that way, conditions have changed, and the US is no longer obligated to "have Israel's back".
Apparently, Mr. Netanyahu's support of the two-state solution must be unconditional, but US support for Israel is not.
I think I can understand the reluctance of Israelis to rely on other people's promises to ensure their safety.
But didn't the President say unequivocally that the US will always "have Israel's back"? Evidently, this isn't true. Or it's conditional on Israel behaving the way the US wants it to. Now that it's not behaving that way, conditions have changed, and the US is no longer obligated to "have Israel's back".
Apparently, Mr. Netanyahu's support of the two-state solution must be unconditional, but US support for Israel is not.
I think I can understand the reluctance of Israelis to rely on other people's promises to ensure their safety.
1
Not the smartest choice for this article:
Elliott Abrams a convicted criminal with a Presidential pardon, whose actions show that he has no respect for Law, Government or Human Rights.
Dermer a meddler and manipulator - a key player in Netanyahu's visit, accusing the UN and human rights groups of aiding Hamas and saying the IDF should get the Nobel Peace Prize for its restraint during the most recent atrocities in Gaza.
Worse candidates for speaking honestly, intelligently and with Israel's best interests in mind I cannot think of. Both are rogue and self-serving at best.
Elliott Abrams a convicted criminal with a Presidential pardon, whose actions show that he has no respect for Law, Government or Human Rights.
Dermer a meddler and manipulator - a key player in Netanyahu's visit, accusing the UN and human rights groups of aiding Hamas and saying the IDF should get the Nobel Peace Prize for its restraint during the most recent atrocities in Gaza.
Worse candidates for speaking honestly, intelligently and with Israel's best interests in mind I cannot think of. Both are rogue and self-serving at best.
2
The US needs Israel desperately.
A true military and democratic ally in a portion of the world where we have virtually no other philosophical or trustworthy military friends.
The overwhelming averse commentary in the NYT is mindless. Let one of the critics provide a realistic path forward for Israel, when its adversaries are devoted to its destruction. Could any sane country agree to support a neighboring state which cannot bear to admit the country has a right to exist?
A true military and democratic ally in a portion of the world where we have virtually no other philosophical or trustworthy military friends.
The overwhelming averse commentary in the NYT is mindless. Let one of the critics provide a realistic path forward for Israel, when its adversaries are devoted to its destruction. Could any sane country agree to support a neighboring state which cannot bear to admit the country has a right to exist?
1
No, only the Republicans can succeed. It was Boehner who invited the Prime minister to speak, he is visiting Israel ... and can take credit for the two ships in the night that will bump, and leave a door wide open for more bombings and retaliation to Israel. The Palestinians will be justified as their future is threatened, and Netanyahu cannot be trusted even by his own people. So, get ready for a new campaign of hatred ... when the Palestinians are aided by ISIS: Remember the Republicans, remember Boehner. But you can bet: they will say it is Obama's fault.
Israel is a narcissistic nation state that sees things exclusively from their own lens. They take no responsibility for Palestinians or any other country. Being a global citizen does not require equal consideration for others but it does require some consideration. Israel has none. The Israeli government has pursued a relentless policy of apartheid that is resulting in a loss of support around the world. This is most recently evidenced by AIPACs insistence that Obama must make amends with Israel and not vice versa. Israel must fire Dermer not simply withdraw him.
1
The megachurch Christians which support Israel have an agenda which includes facilitating the rapture, nudging Jesus to return. They are the O'Reilly Republicans and they meld with the right wing government of Israel, but for different reasons. Wishing for the end of time can't help but bring it closer. The Bachmann, Cruz and Graham priority for Israel when I don't hear them speaking for their own State's needs seems opportunistic. But to have 2 out of 3 of the dimmest bulbs on the national stage as cheerleaders for rightist Israeli policies is disconcerting, alienating thoughtful voters who look beyond perpetual war for a better idea. The closest Mideast peace has come was after Desert Storm when Israel did not respond militarily to the Scud attacks, they let us engage those. The American people's sympathy for Israel was very high then, it would have been a perfect time for a lasting peace with a secure foundation.
When I see Hassidic Jews in public, with their distinctive religious garb like the fur hat called the shtreimel, and their side braids, and their long dark clothing regardless of the Florida heat, and Jewish children playing carefree in their yarmulkes and modest dresses, I am as gratified as they are to know that they are free to practice their religion in this country no matter how odd it appears to me or other non-Jews. In America we don't base the law on any religion, and we don't give preferences to any religion in the application of the law.
So as a non-Jew I have a strong objection to the extreme religiosity of the majority of Israelis, who solidly support of Netanyahu's plan to not only turn Israel into a single state, but a theocratic one that marginalizes religions other than Judaism.
I won't support any American politician who supports Israel. I can't do anything about it, but I object to my tax dollars contributing in any way to the Jewish conquest of the Palestinians. What I can and will do is resist any directive from our politicians to join in any war to defend the Israelis. And I will vote for any politician who abandons the Israelis in favor of the American ideals of separation of church and state, freedom of religion, and justice and equality for all citizens.
So as a non-Jew I have a strong objection to the extreme religiosity of the majority of Israelis, who solidly support of Netanyahu's plan to not only turn Israel into a single state, but a theocratic one that marginalizes religions other than Judaism.
I won't support any American politician who supports Israel. I can't do anything about it, but I object to my tax dollars contributing in any way to the Jewish conquest of the Palestinians. What I can and will do is resist any directive from our politicians to join in any war to defend the Israelis. And I will vote for any politician who abandons the Israelis in favor of the American ideals of separation of church and state, freedom of religion, and justice and equality for all citizens.
2
We are a long way from a situation in which public sentiment regarding Israel can have any effect on middle east policy as long as AIPAC can keep giving the top fifty congress people anywhere from $100k to $600K every two years. The US campaign donation system makes our politicians virtual marionettes for Israel or any other country, occasionally personality conflicts aside.
The other source of Washington's support for Israel is Tel Aviv's role as a destabilizing agent in the middle east - an agenda contrary to just about everyone's interest aside from defense contractors who, for instance, worry that any Iran nuclear agreement might “impede what [military contractors] see as progress in foreign military sales", based on the "truism of the weapons trade: war — or the threat of war — is good for the arms business".
The two quotes are of corporate military sector luminaries at a industry conference speaking with an unusual level of candor about the intersection of US foreign policy and arms merchant's business strategy and profits - an intersection which we are to believe has no congruence, each operating absolutely independently, despite the intimate connections between the Pentagon, the congress and industry lobbyists, and the revolving door between the Pentagon and top-level positions in the military contractor sector.
The other source of Washington's support for Israel is Tel Aviv's role as a destabilizing agent in the middle east - an agenda contrary to just about everyone's interest aside from defense contractors who, for instance, worry that any Iran nuclear agreement might “impede what [military contractors] see as progress in foreign military sales", based on the "truism of the weapons trade: war — or the threat of war — is good for the arms business".
The two quotes are of corporate military sector luminaries at a industry conference speaking with an unusual level of candor about the intersection of US foreign policy and arms merchant's business strategy and profits - an intersection which we are to believe has no congruence, each operating absolutely independently, despite the intimate connections between the Pentagon, the congress and industry lobbyists, and the revolving door between the Pentagon and top-level positions in the military contractor sector.
2
John Walker Lindh, the American Taliban is one of the mysteries of post-September 11. No one has analyzed what turned this young man that could shed light on the rise of ISIS. Our military commanders have admitted they have hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal. Even President Obama has made statements that reflected confusion about the Islamic State.
Israel has had to face home grown terrorists from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. So it’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in trying to influence the US to adapt his no holds barred approach, which could inevitably determine the candidates for the 2016 election. It worries me that Netanyahu’s form of brinksmanship most strangely smacks of the fanatic’s so-called religious acceptance of the coming apocalypse.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. He must continue to reaffirm support for Israel but not for fear mongering, thereby earning the respect of American Jews.
Israel has had to face home grown terrorists from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. So it’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in trying to influence the US to adapt his no holds barred approach, which could inevitably determine the candidates for the 2016 election. It worries me that Netanyahu’s form of brinksmanship most strangely smacks of the fanatic’s so-called religious acceptance of the coming apocalypse.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. He must continue to reaffirm support for Israel but not for fear mongering, thereby earning the respect of American Jews.
I learned all i want about "democracy" listening to the 2012 Democratic National Convention that took place in Charlotte, NC. The original 2012 party platform caused controversy after it was written, because the typical invocations and references to God and God-given rights were omitted, and language affirming the role of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was removed. On Wednesday, September 5, former Ohio Governor Ted Strickland introduced an amendment on the floor of the convention to reinsert language invoking God and recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Convention chairman Antonio Villaraigosa put the amendment to a voice vote requiring a two-thirds majority for passage. After the first vote was indecisive, Villaraigosa called for a second vote, which was again met with an equal volume of "ayes" and "nos". A woman standing to his left said, "You've got to rule, and then you've got to let them do what they're gonna do." Villaraigosa called a third vote with the same result. Villaraigosa then declared the amendment passed, causing an eruption of boos on the floor. Democrats don't earn or need my vote.
John Lindh, the American Taliban is one of the mysteries of post-September 11. No one has analyzed what turned his son that could shed light on the rise of ISIS. Our military commanders have admitted they have hardly begun figuring out the Islamic State’s appeal. Even President Obama has made statements that reflected confusion about the Islamic State.
Israel has had to face home grown terrorists from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. So it’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in trying to influence the US to adapt his no holds barred approach, which could inevitably determine the candidates for the 2016 election. It worries me that Netanyahu’s form of brinksmanship most strangely smacks of the fanatic’s so-called religious acceptance of the coming apocalypse.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. He must continue to reaffirm support for Israel but not for fear mongering, thereby earning the respect of American Jews.
Israel has had to face home grown terrorists from their beginning and this issue is even more threatening for Prime Minister Netanyahu. So it’s understandable that before an election, he would seek support for his own strategy by becoming more extreme and less diplomatic. He doesn’t worry how this goes over in the rest of the world because he thinks everyone is against Israel anyway. However, he has gone too far in trying to influence the US to adapt his no holds barred approach, which could inevitably determine the candidates for the 2016 election. It worries me that Netanyahu’s form of brinksmanship most strangely smacks of the fanatic’s so-called religious acceptance of the coming apocalypse.
Fortunately, President Obama is not only not blaming the rest of the world for our problems in the Middle East, but is actively seeking as much support as he can find, even though it gives the hawks an opportunity to call him weak. He must continue to reaffirm support for Israel but not for fear mongering, thereby earning the respect of American Jews.
You have to hand it to Netanyahu, with the help of the Republican party he has managed to pretty much turn the Jewish State and Jewish people into being even more hated then terrorists.
Unfortunately, one of these days Israel and American Jews will wake up to the fact that Republicans don't care about them at all except in so far as it means power for themselves. When you are the party of hate - hate for Blacks, Hispanics, Gays, Woman. Muslims, Workers, clean environment, science, minorities of every sort, and so on - you would be crazy to think the hate stops for the rightwing when it comes to the Jews.
Unfortunately, one of these days Israel and American Jews will wake up to the fact that Republicans don't care about them at all except in so far as it means power for themselves. When you are the party of hate - hate for Blacks, Hispanics, Gays, Woman. Muslims, Workers, clean environment, science, minorities of every sort, and so on - you would be crazy to think the hate stops for the rightwing when it comes to the Jews.
2
Netanyahu has atomic Bombs. Iran does not. While this should mean MAD would exist between the two states, there is a possibility of some zealot just ending the world by launching an Atomic attack. Israel would be damaged and Iran destroyed in any case. But that would be in the future. The Question is about the now.
The answer to that is very simple Netanyahu wants the United States to destroy Iran. He wants a war with American lives on the line again. He has quite accurately sensed the hated of the Republican Party for the President. An has also sensed that Republicans want that war also. They do not care about the lives or cost involved. So in the now he made his choice to side with the Republicans hated an hope he can use them to start a war with Iran.
The neocons are still there with the Republican Party( actually it should be called the Israeli party of the USA) and they will go to war again. Only this time instead of Iraq it will be Iran.
All the rest is just salad dressing, the Right Wing Likud wants war and so does the Right Wing lead Republican party.
The answer to that is very simple Netanyahu wants the United States to destroy Iran. He wants a war with American lives on the line again. He has quite accurately sensed the hated of the Republican Party for the President. An has also sensed that Republicans want that war also. They do not care about the lives or cost involved. So in the now he made his choice to side with the Republicans hated an hope he can use them to start a war with Iran.
The neocons are still there with the Republican Party( actually it should be called the Israeli party of the USA) and they will go to war again. Only this time instead of Iraq it will be Iran.
All the rest is just salad dressing, the Right Wing Likud wants war and so does the Right Wing lead Republican party.
1
Republicans win. Democrats don't have a meaningful response. They're hamstrung by their support for Israel (need for campaign dollars post Citizen's United). If Israel were cast into the sea, would our world change? Not meaningfully for Americans. In fact, a world without Israel would probably be a much more peaceful world. Let the jews come to America. We would welcome them here — even the incredibly arrogant Netanyahu. And they would enjoy the kind of freedoms and civil protections we offer all of our citizens (unless of course you're a person of color. Then, not so much.)
By identifying the wall back against which they can push Democrats, Republicans have set up Democrats for a shellacking in 2016. Those that buy the Netanyahu/Republican argument will vote. Those who don't, may not even vote. If the Democrats don't vote . . . well, we're back to Republican run everything and all that that implies.
My advice, buy Halliburton now. It's going to be worth a lot more in about four years.
By identifying the wall back against which they can push Democrats, Republicans have set up Democrats for a shellacking in 2016. Those that buy the Netanyahu/Republican argument will vote. Those who don't, may not even vote. If the Democrats don't vote . . . well, we're back to Republican run everything and all that that implies.
My advice, buy Halliburton now. It's going to be worth a lot more in about four years.
Wrong question. The right question is: do moderate Christians and Israel have a future together, or will it continue to be Christian Zionist zealots?
The Republicans provide cover for the religious right, and the Adelson wing. They would like to see a militarily aggressive Israel which ultimately self-destructs, paving the way for the "end of days".
The silent majority of Jews need to speak up.
The Republicans provide cover for the religious right, and the Adelson wing. They would like to see a militarily aggressive Israel which ultimately self-destructs, paving the way for the "end of days".
The silent majority of Jews need to speak up.
1
A social progressive with a slight streak of financial restraint, I am that unaffiliated voter that both parties seems so concerned about on election day. Frankly, I have long found Netanyahu and his the wolf is at the door dialog tiring, be it real or not. According to his riffs Iran should have had nuclear weapons at their disposal 10-15 years ago. He reminds of that neighborhood kid who liked to go around sticking his finger in everyone's chest knowing his big brother at home would always bail him out when things got rough. I'm becoming tired of being used as Netanyahu/Israel's big brother.
The current disapproval towards Israel is rooted in anti-Semitism. Sadly, many of our own leaders are complicit in this movement. You need to look no farther than the public declarations to destroy Israel, by leaders of the countries surrounding them, to understand the hate for Jews. They must have a secure homeland and Israel/Jersulam is that historic location. The Palestinians have had numerous chances to move forward with a two-state solution, but the hatred and greed of their leaders has left them in their current situation.
1
I believe the US should back Israel in the event of existential circumstances. But is annexing the West Bank an answer to a difficult situation? When terrorist rockets are falling on Israeli homes in the West Bank, will the answer then be to annex Jordan, too? Israel is a sovereign nation that needs to weigh its interests. The US is a sovereign nation that needs to weigh its interests, too. I believe in the last 15 years we've suffered more terrorist deaths, more military combat deaths, and spent a trillion-plus dollars (and accrued further liabilities). To what extent has that advanced US interests in the Middle East?
The answer to the question ultimately resides on whether or not Israel continues to elect right-wing governments that are friendly with the GOP. Netanyahu no more represents all of Israel than George W. Bush represented all of the United States.
I think what the split represents most of all is a growing recognition that the interests of Israel as determined by Likud are no longer coincident with the national interests of the United States. I think we will see the US pursue its own interests regardless of what Netanyahu wants. That probably means a deal with Iran, a thawing of relations with Tehran and the US continuing to push for a two-state solution to the Palestinian issue. This doesn't mean a break with Israel, it means that the US will treat it as it treats many other friendly nations with whom national interests are not coincident.
By wading into the cesspool of US partisan politics, Netanyahu is playing with fire. I don't know whether he's aware of how frustrating he has become to those of us otherwise disposed to support Israel, but if he thinks that the $3 billion in military aid the US spends every year isn't leverage we can use to push back with, he's not living in the real world. And, as the saying goes, if you lie down with dogs you wind up with fleas. Bibi certainly could use a flea bath after taking sides in US politics and he's in the doghouse with Democrats as a result and deservedly so.
I think what the split represents most of all is a growing recognition that the interests of Israel as determined by Likud are no longer coincident with the national interests of the United States. I think we will see the US pursue its own interests regardless of what Netanyahu wants. That probably means a deal with Iran, a thawing of relations with Tehran and the US continuing to push for a two-state solution to the Palestinian issue. This doesn't mean a break with Israel, it means that the US will treat it as it treats many other friendly nations with whom national interests are not coincident.
By wading into the cesspool of US partisan politics, Netanyahu is playing with fire. I don't know whether he's aware of how frustrating he has become to those of us otherwise disposed to support Israel, but if he thinks that the $3 billion in military aid the US spends every year isn't leverage we can use to push back with, he's not living in the real world. And, as the saying goes, if you lie down with dogs you wind up with fleas. Bibi certainly could use a flea bath after taking sides in US politics and he's in the doghouse with Democrats as a result and deservedly so.
1
The question for Dermer, Abrams, and yes, Jason Horowitz, is this: now that the fiction of the two-state solution is finally buried, what now? What do you propose? What comes next? Can five million Palestinians live under Israeli rule with no rights forever? What do you propose to do with all these people? What's the plan, now? That's the question that is going to be put not only to Democratic politicians, but to Republicans. What does unconditional support for Israel actually mean they are supporting, now? And can any American politician answer that question in a way that continues to support Israel, and survive?
More and more, liberals, progressives and Democratic Party supporters, both Jewish and non-Jewish, are realizing that Likud's settlement policy based on Biblical myths, has turned Israel into a colonizer and apartheid state. In addition to that, they see Israeli policy towards the Palestinians as a major factor in the rise of Islamic extremism and terrorism. The salvation for the Middle East, including Israel, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia is to abandon religious doctrines and respect secularism and human rights. The West should stop supporting reactionary governments and should only support the secular-minded forces in those countries.
1
Yes, Netanyahu is a thug and has gone back on his word, but the truth is that the time for the so-called two-state solution (so-called because it was never to be a real state) has come and gone. The fact is Israel/Palestine has been one state since 1967, with part under civil law and part under military law. At this point a geographic separation is unrealistic. Netanyahu and his minions in Israel and here want to have a state that continues keep the Arabs down, with most of them under military occupation. Actually, they want to kick the Arabs out, but that isn't realistic, either. From the point of the United States, the only solution consistent with American values is one state with all inhabitants of Israel/West Bank/Gaza having equal rights. That is what we should support.
The learned ambassador should get his facts straight: Canada has a female Chief Justice of the federal Supreme Court, and previously had a female prime minister and speaker of the national Parliament. Canada also has gay marriage and gay rights. He should cease using fictious arguments to condone demogoguery and grotesque human rights abuses.
Israeli's have democratically made their choice.
The US voters now know what to expect from Mr Netanyahu, how his government views minorities in their country, and where future of Palestine stands.
Mrs. Clinton and others contending for Presidency should be very concerned how they negotiate these events. If she does not make the right choices and starts pandering to AIPAC, etc. she will lose votes from people like me (it may not matter much but still....).
This is an opportunity for Democrats and independents to force reassessment of US policy towards Israel. Let them determine their destiny as we determine ours. Israel as a state has reached a level of maturity and self-sufficiency that through their action speak of not wanting more aid and counsel from US. Good. we can certainly use this aid money and time elsewhere.
So, "do the democrats and Israel have a future together?" Yes, but the roles have changed.
Democrats can finally call a "spade" a spade and help Israel get the kind of feedback friends would give to each other. Again, they may still chose "wisdom" imparted by the republicans. ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO MAKE A WRONG CHOICE. Democrats do not have to and should not.
The US voters now know what to expect from Mr Netanyahu, how his government views minorities in their country, and where future of Palestine stands.
Mrs. Clinton and others contending for Presidency should be very concerned how they negotiate these events. If she does not make the right choices and starts pandering to AIPAC, etc. she will lose votes from people like me (it may not matter much but still....).
This is an opportunity for Democrats and independents to force reassessment of US policy towards Israel. Let them determine their destiny as we determine ours. Israel as a state has reached a level of maturity and self-sufficiency that through their action speak of not wanting more aid and counsel from US. Good. we can certainly use this aid money and time elsewhere.
So, "do the democrats and Israel have a future together?" Yes, but the roles have changed.
Democrats can finally call a "spade" a spade and help Israel get the kind of feedback friends would give to each other. Again, they may still chose "wisdom" imparted by the republicans. ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO MAKE A WRONG CHOICE. Democrats do not have to and should not.
1
Anti-Semitism, in the form of visceral disdain for Jews, has always been present in American culture. often festering just beneath the surface. What is new is not Netanyahu, but rather that there is now free license to express that disdain, especially among the “progressive” left. To those who think otherwise, have a look at the more intemperate language in NYT comments. And, to extend your sympathies a bit further, ask how would America react if we were a democratic country the size of New Jersey surrounded by despotic Islamic states sworn to destroy us, one actually in the midst of building nuclear weapons? How would we respond if we were subject to a rain of missiles and suicide bombers deliberately targeting civilians in our churches, hospitals and schools? Would we not be suspicious of a “deal” such as Obama is crafting with Iran? Israel, as we would, sees this as an existential issue, and has every right to do what they can to influence us politically – even as clumsily as has Netanyahu. We have a duty to listen, to restrain the anti-Semitic bigots among us, and to stand firmly with Israel so long as the Middle–East is riddled with Islamic extremism.
2
how lovely that elliott abrams, who tried to cover up the el mozote massacre and who has admitted lying to congress, retains enough of his marbles to be quoted by the times as a credible analyst of israeli politics and the difficulties of the democratic party as though none of this had ever happened.
the times, and jason horowitz, shield be ashamed of relying on the opinions of a proven liar. even to quote him is an insult to the readers, but to quote him without referring to his partisan past - identifying him only as the father of a rabbi and a doting grandfather, is going beyond the pale.
the times, and jason horowitz, shield be ashamed of relying on the opinions of a proven liar. even to quote him is an insult to the readers, but to quote him without referring to his partisan past - identifying him only as the father of a rabbi and a doting grandfather, is going beyond the pale.
1
What we as Democrats see in the efforts of Netanyahu and his right wing extremists in Israel and in this country, is the total and complete lack of respect shown to an American Democratically elected president and the first African American president. This is America not Israel and we have our own leader and it is NOT Netanyahu.
Dermer cares more about advancing the GOP in America than he does about Israel. Shame on him for using his position for political gain back home. Democrats should not fall for his ruses and realize everything Dermer does is intended to advance his cause by damaging theirs.
If Israel withdrew from the West Bank and lifted the siege of Gaza its problems with liberal Jews and American liberals would vanish. So would Israel's problems EU public opinion. Israel would be the pride and joy of the Western world.
Of course this isn't going to happen. I have just visited a parallel universe far far away. No, Israel remains mired in an ultimately self defeating relationship with 4.5 million Palestinians under its suzerainty. The Israelis can't hide from their version of apartheid. The article focused on the erosion of support among Liberal Democrats. How about the growing wing of the Republican Party that champions libertarian ideology? Most of these people are not Christian Zionists. The Israelis have 50 percent support in the U.S. population. However, in recent times, that percentage has dropped as low as 30 percent at the height of Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon in the early 1980s. In the near future, Israel's base of support beyond conservative Christians and Jews in the U.S. may collapse. It is not a pretty picture for Israel. Single digit positive images in Germany, Japan and Spain (Latin America too) will not reverse themselves. This is reality.
Of course this isn't going to happen. I have just visited a parallel universe far far away. No, Israel remains mired in an ultimately self defeating relationship with 4.5 million Palestinians under its suzerainty. The Israelis can't hide from their version of apartheid. The article focused on the erosion of support among Liberal Democrats. How about the growing wing of the Republican Party that champions libertarian ideology? Most of these people are not Christian Zionists. The Israelis have 50 percent support in the U.S. population. However, in recent times, that percentage has dropped as low as 30 percent at the height of Israel's occupation of Southern Lebanon in the early 1980s. In the near future, Israel's base of support beyond conservative Christians and Jews in the U.S. may collapse. It is not a pretty picture for Israel. Single digit positive images in Germany, Japan and Spain (Latin America too) will not reverse themselves. This is reality.
1
As Dermer points out Israel is very progressive - a woman Prime Minister, a Chief justice of the Supreme Court, a Speaker in the Knesset and - the ONLY DEMOCRACY in the Middle East ( not anymore !!) He is talking of gay-pride. What about pride in it's own citizens, in case he did'nt notice - Arabs who are part and parcel of the land? Or are they not humans? Israel has now become an apartheid State, the intentions of their newly elected leader confirmed in no uncertain terms, in words which will go into posterity. His actions in the past belie his redacted statements. What galls me as a citizen of the U.S. is why this small country is causing so much divisions in OUR country? Why not give a small % of that leeway to say, Iran. Iran's Royal Guards would be more of a help in our fight against the ISIS. Instead the bombastic, narcissist Israeli Prime Minister is given a podium to scuttle our own Foreign Policy. We have been at the giving end for too long. What are we getting in return except loss of credibility in the rest of the world. Why is there no talk of Israel joining the fray to fight the ISIS? Our policy should be - no pain, no gain. I hope Hillary Clinton sees this awful truth about Israel. If she does not she would be committing the same sin as Netanyahu - lying to get the votes.
If you read virtually any article on Israeli online news outets like ynet, arutz sheva, jpost and the like, the comments are often far right vulagar and racist rants against Obama, even when the topic of the story has nothing to do with the US and never mentions Obama at all.
Many Israelis, including Ron Dermer (who would be expected to know better) have a vicseral hate for Obama. They ignore, or deliberately overlook, the fact that as POTUS, Obama has a considerable range of actions that he can take, for or against them.
If Israelis want me, as a Jew and a Democrat, to pay attention to their entreaties, they should at least consider that political pokes in the eye are not the way to get my positive attention. I say this as a person who has vistied Israel many times, invluding for the bat mitzvah of my grandaughter who lives in California, an event held in Jerusalem. I also have relatives in Israel.
I am not inclined to cut Bibi Netanyhau any slack at all. I support the Israeli people. I have little respect for the 23 % who were foolish enough to vote for Bibi and who make their disdain for Obama and Americans quite plain. Only 23%. 77% voted for "Anybody But Bibi."
Many Israelis, including Ron Dermer (who would be expected to know better) have a vicseral hate for Obama. They ignore, or deliberately overlook, the fact that as POTUS, Obama has a considerable range of actions that he can take, for or against them.
If Israelis want me, as a Jew and a Democrat, to pay attention to their entreaties, they should at least consider that political pokes in the eye are not the way to get my positive attention. I say this as a person who has vistied Israel many times, invluding for the bat mitzvah of my grandaughter who lives in California, an event held in Jerusalem. I also have relatives in Israel.
I am not inclined to cut Bibi Netanyhau any slack at all. I support the Israeli people. I have little respect for the 23 % who were foolish enough to vote for Bibi and who make their disdain for Obama and Americans quite plain. Only 23%. 77% voted for "Anybody But Bibi."
1
I honestly think the time where Israel could be considered an ally is over. That relation has been incredibly one sided for years now. We have come at a point where Israel takes so much the US support for granted that Netanyahu no longer even bother hiding his scorn and contempt and the fact he has been playing the US for fool for years.
1
As someone of Jewish extraction who has never felt a kinship for Israel, I owe Bibi my thanks for finally showing the world what I have despised about his country for the past 40 years.
Here's a wild and crazy thought--let's stop funding Israel militarily. Let them sink all the money they've been able to budget for their infrastructure into their weapons of destruction if they won't work for a peaceful solution, and we can spend that money here on roads, bridges and services for our own population.
Here's a wild and crazy thought--let's stop funding Israel militarily. Let them sink all the money they've been able to budget for their infrastructure into their weapons of destruction if they won't work for a peaceful solution, and we can spend that money here on roads, bridges and services for our own population.
1
It is interesting -- no, it is lavishly ironic -- that this article begins by quoting the opinions of Mr. Elliot Abrams. It is Mr. Abrams -- together with his crummy crew of neo-conservatives (Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Bill Kristol, Richard Perle et al) -- whose disastrous policy prescriptions some fourteen years ago created the very situation they now lament: not simple the empowerment of Iran -- the rise of Islamic extremism throughout the region.
These neocons seem utterly incapable of introspection, let alone self-criticism. Mr Abrams does, however, appear to have one redeeming virtue. He was able to raise an independent-mind daughter who had the good sense to marry a man not-nearly-as blind to reality as her father.
These neocons seem utterly incapable of introspection, let alone self-criticism. Mr Abrams does, however, appear to have one redeeming virtue. He was able to raise an independent-mind daughter who had the good sense to marry a man not-nearly-as blind to reality as her father.
1
Abrams and the rest of the neocons should migrate back to Israel - and stay there.
1
It's laughable to suggest a break between Democrats and Israel. AIPAC owns the entire Congress, wealthy Jewish donors are some of are most sought by the party, and Hillary Clinton has pledged eternal togetherness and allegiance to Israel more times than can be counted. Obama was probably one of the few Democrats who instead of being 100 percent on board with the occupation was probably only 90 percent.
The real question is the question of the Palestinians' future - their oppressor has dropped all pretense of wanting peace, and still the Western nations will not really help them.
The real question is the question of the Palestinians' future - their oppressor has dropped all pretense of wanting peace, and still the Western nations will not really help them.
Political order in the Arab world surrounding Israel, including Iran, is quickly disintegrating. Against that Great Unravelling I doubt anything Netanyahu does or doesn't do vis-a-vis any American president matters all that much in the grand scheme of things. Antagonism between world leaders makes for great headlines and a general gnashing of teeth but the train wreck will continue on regardless.
Another Arab-Israeli war is coming, not on Netanyahu's watch but relatively soon afterwards; no later than fifteen years. And that one that will put all the others in the shade.
For that matter, I doubt anything any American president does or doesn't do in that region matters much; beyond making matters even worse than they already are. Especially those robot drone airstrikes that raise every hand against us. There was a time when concrete (not rhetorical) acts American presidents took might have some beneficial impact. But that time has passed.
Perhaps we should resize our diplomatic footprint there to that enjoyed by, say, Paraguay while bombs and missiles fly in all directions at all hours of the day and night and Sunnis murder Shiites (and visa-versa) in their mosques and beds with impunity.
Another Arab-Israeli war is coming, not on Netanyahu's watch but relatively soon afterwards; no later than fifteen years. And that one that will put all the others in the shade.
For that matter, I doubt anything any American president does or doesn't do in that region matters much; beyond making matters even worse than they already are. Especially those robot drone airstrikes that raise every hand against us. There was a time when concrete (not rhetorical) acts American presidents took might have some beneficial impact. But that time has passed.
Perhaps we should resize our diplomatic footprint there to that enjoyed by, say, Paraguay while bombs and missiles fly in all directions at all hours of the day and night and Sunnis murder Shiites (and visa-versa) in their mosques and beds with impunity.
I am a 68-year old Democrat whose long-waning support for Israel ended with Netanyahu's recent slap in the face of President Obama. I support the U.S. taking a more active role in support of a Palestinian state in what ever forums are available to us. It's simply the right thing to do.
1
Likud officials' sense of entitlement is the most galling. Netanyahu believes he can lie, obfuscate, pander, oppress (and frequently kill) the powerless and nonetheless the American president, and indeed America, are stuck because... because what? Because there are die-hard US Zionists with deep pockets to influence political campaigns?
Bibi's mythology ranges from misinterpretation of actual facts, like the myth that the world owes Israel whatever it wants because of the Holocaust, to probable fairy tales, like the legend of Esther, Mordecai & Haman. According to this mythology, the Israelis are by definition righteous, and G*d requires America to support them no matter what.
Yes, Israel is a democracy and has many admirable features, particularly when compared with its neighbors. More than that, many Israelis are educated, cultivated and admirable people. None of this justifies Israel's mistreatment of the indigenous Palestinian people. Similar remarks could be made about apartheid South Africa, or the early United States and its indigenes and slaves, who thank goodness are now all citizens.
It is insulting to be told 'we (Israel) are per se good and deserving, so you (America) must shut up and support us with your lives and your treasure, or you are evil (anti-Semitic).' No one will tolerate such insults forever, and past persecution can never justify current oppression. Quite the opposite. Those who have suffered should have learned kindness and generosity.
Bibi's mythology ranges from misinterpretation of actual facts, like the myth that the world owes Israel whatever it wants because of the Holocaust, to probable fairy tales, like the legend of Esther, Mordecai & Haman. According to this mythology, the Israelis are by definition righteous, and G*d requires America to support them no matter what.
Yes, Israel is a democracy and has many admirable features, particularly when compared with its neighbors. More than that, many Israelis are educated, cultivated and admirable people. None of this justifies Israel's mistreatment of the indigenous Palestinian people. Similar remarks could be made about apartheid South Africa, or the early United States and its indigenes and slaves, who thank goodness are now all citizens.
It is insulting to be told 'we (Israel) are per se good and deserving, so you (America) must shut up and support us with your lives and your treasure, or you are evil (anti-Semitic).' No one will tolerate such insults forever, and past persecution can never justify current oppression. Quite the opposite. Those who have suffered should have learned kindness and generosity.
1
The Republican leadership and the Israeli right are now living together in a Fox News Bubble. I can tell you as a Jewish American that many of us feel betrayed by the polices of Netanyahu, and this runs very deep. Perhaps Netanyahu doesn't understand America and American Jews as well as he thinks that he does. For example, he doesn't realize that he has now *jumped the shark.*
What I fail to understand is why liberals HATE Israel so much that they are willing to let go of their position on universal human rights and secularism. Israel for all its faults, is still the ONLY democracy in the region with rule of law, secularist policies - even after they are eroded a little recently.
I dont believe US should take a position FOR Palestine as long as it remains an Islamic driven entity. And as long as they tolerate Hamas!
I dont believe US should take a position FOR Palestine as long as it remains an Islamic driven entity. And as long as they tolerate Hamas!
It isn't just Democrats that the Israel supporters should be worried about. They should also be worried about independent voters who are disenchanted with the Republican penchant for war and world domination. I was an Israeli supporter from the beginning, and still wish them well. I have been there many times, but the present trend to completely dominate and marginalize the Arabs of Palestine have left me with a feeling of complete despair over the ultimate fate of Israel. The present trend will ultimately result in their destruction. The tragedy is that Americans who have encouraged the likes of Netanyahu and the Greater Israel faction will not have to suffer the consequences of their folly.
8. He came out on the side of Trayvon Martin saying he could be his son, not on the side of the US legal system, the side of George Zimmerman.
9. He treats Israel worse than Iran, N, Korea, the Soviet Union,
10. He has done nothing to stop Boko Haram
11. He has done nothing to stop the massacre of the Yazidis, the Christian Coptics and the Iraqi Christians
12. He did not do enough to protect the US from Ebola because he wanted to protect the economy of some African country.
13. He freed 5 top generals of al-Qaeda from Gitmo for no reason. He could have freed the American deserter without having to release those detainees. They are now free to go to Afghanistan to continue their war against the US.
14. He pulled out all the stops to free the American deserter who defected to al-Qaeda, but did nothing to help a US Marine imprisoned in Mexico, or Americans captured by ISIS, or being held captive by Iran.
15. He said he should have closed Gitmo the first day he came to office. He is letting all the Muslim terrorists in Gitmo go Scott free.
9. He treats Israel worse than Iran, N, Korea, the Soviet Union,
10. He has done nothing to stop Boko Haram
11. He has done nothing to stop the massacre of the Yazidis, the Christian Coptics and the Iraqi Christians
12. He did not do enough to protect the US from Ebola because he wanted to protect the economy of some African country.
13. He freed 5 top generals of al-Qaeda from Gitmo for no reason. He could have freed the American deserter without having to release those detainees. They are now free to go to Afghanistan to continue their war against the US.
14. He pulled out all the stops to free the American deserter who defected to al-Qaeda, but did nothing to help a US Marine imprisoned in Mexico, or Americans captured by ISIS, or being held captive by Iran.
15. He said he should have closed Gitmo the first day he came to office. He is letting all the Muslim terrorists in Gitmo go Scott free.
1
Many Democrats and Republicans are israeli firsters.
Small insignificant bunch of Elders of Zion have the whole world wrapped around their fingers.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
Small insignificant bunch of Elders of Zion have the whole world wrapped around their fingers.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
2
Reader critical of Israel need to consider the result of Obama's policy in the Middle East and elsewhere. He has lost Libya. Jordan, Egypt and Saudi ( and Israel) oppose his negotiations with Iran. Today he withdrew our forces from Yemen. Iraq prefers to deal with Iran. Obama negotiates with Iran, the largest exporter of terrorism in the world, arguing that it is the wisest alternative, while deriding our strongest ally in the region. France suggests we should delay negotiations. Our country is divided, with most of the Senate opposing any deal without Congress, while the President prefers to bypass your own system of government by using the United Nations. There Euro zone is in crisis, with a likely collapse of the Euro, increasing the possibility of war. Russia is in the Ukraine, and NATO is anemic, and divided- at the point of collapse. We have lost virtually every ally in the mid east and shortly will have to depend on the only nation that publicly bombed a mock US carrier in the Persian Gulf only last month. Pakistan and India are at each other's throats. North Korea threatens us. WHAT DOES OURT PRESIDENT DO? He decreases the size of our armed forces, repudiates our loyal ally, negotiates with our declared enemy. Does he intend the probably consequences of his acts?
As a Democrat, I am a strong supporter of Israel, in the context of its right to exist as a country and its great, free-wheeling, democratic society. However, at the borders of the West Bank and Gaza, my support for Israel ends. I hope average Israelis understand that more and more with each passing year, their country is coming to resemble South Africa under apartheid. Americans will not support that. CERTAINLY, progressive and liberal Americans will not, and don't, but in the court of US public opinion, Israel is losing, and it is losing fast. Peace, based on a two state solution is the only answer, but it is one Israeli leaders will not accept. I leave it to the citizens of Israel to save their country from international condemnation, which is coming soon if they do not change course.
1
i learned all i want to know about "democracy" at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, NC in 2012. The original 2012 party platform caused controversy after it was written, because the typical invocations and references to God and God-given rights were omitted, and language affirming the role of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was removed. On Wednesday, September 5, former Ohio Governor Ted Strickland introduced an amendment on the floor of the convention to reinsert language invoking God and recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Convention chairman Antonio Villaraigosa put the amendment to a voice vote requiring a two-thirds majority for passage. After the first vote was indecisive, Villaraigosa called for a second vote, which was again met with an equal volume of "ayes" and "nos". A woman standing to his left said, "You've got to rule, and then you've got to let them do what they're gonna do." Villaraigosa called a third vote with the same result. Villaraigosa then declared the amendment passed, causing an eruption of boos on the floor.
The idea that staunch Democrats will vote Democrat no matter what the loyalties of the candidate is quite incorrect. We won't vote Republican, but we do sit out races. And unless the Democratic Party finds someone who does not sound like a lawyer for the Israel lobby, it will lose a lot of voters this way.
I'm in Virginia. I voted for my U.S. senator, a Democrat. Good friend of Obama's, supposedly, but one of the reasons I voted for Obama is that he (pretty much alone) did not seem to be in bed with Israel. Turns out, the good senator has taken $269,000 from the Israel lobby (it's public information, readily available), and when you write to complain about Israel shelling United Nations refuges for nonmilitant Palestinians and killing a bunch of children, what you get back as a reply sounds as though it had to be vetted by the Israel lobby before it was ever sent out. He has lost my vote, and so has anyone else who defends Israel under current rule. I certainly won't change political loyalties. I just won't vote at all, given that politicians on both sides seem increasingly to be bought and paid for--and not by us.
If Democrat politicians don't wise up and realize that their views are not those of their constituents, I suspect they'll lose most of us.
I'm in Virginia. I voted for my U.S. senator, a Democrat. Good friend of Obama's, supposedly, but one of the reasons I voted for Obama is that he (pretty much alone) did not seem to be in bed with Israel. Turns out, the good senator has taken $269,000 from the Israel lobby (it's public information, readily available), and when you write to complain about Israel shelling United Nations refuges for nonmilitant Palestinians and killing a bunch of children, what you get back as a reply sounds as though it had to be vetted by the Israel lobby before it was ever sent out. He has lost my vote, and so has anyone else who defends Israel under current rule. I certainly won't change political loyalties. I just won't vote at all, given that politicians on both sides seem increasingly to be bought and paid for--and not by us.
If Democrat politicians don't wise up and realize that their views are not those of their constituents, I suspect they'll lose most of us.
2
For years, I have been a supporter of Israel and its right to exist. But for the last several years, as Israel continues to expropriate West Bank territory, it has become harder and harder to support. And its rightwing turn in the last couple of years has been awful to watch. There is a way to peace in the Middle East and Israel has it in its powers to achieve it, instead of feeding the Muslim radicals who do indeed want to wipe the state out. Bibi's last stunt, in cahoots with the despicable Republicans in Congress, did it for me. I will never support Israel until it dials back its aggression and comes to the negotiating table committed to peace.
1
As a staunch democrat, I believe Israel is not at the forefront of issues we, the USofA, face in the future. The biggest issue is income inequality and there is no way that Republicans are going to do anything about this. Yes, they will talk the talk, but when it comes down to it, they will vote for the top 1% bracket to which most of them belong. Israel, sadly will be sidelined and with Bibi, it will be at odds with the Democratic party. IMHO, Israel needs to stop the occupation and withdraw back to its original 1948 boundaries. Using the magical person in the sky as one who gave them the land is a lame excuse for a pathetic and unjust policy of putting down a whole group of people in Palestine. Without justice there will be no peace.
1
"After all, many younger Americans know Israel only as a nuclear-armed force that is the dominant power in its region."
Because that's what it is. What Israel was fifty years ago is no more relevant than what the United States was fifty years ago when it comes to governing in the here and now.
Couched in these terms with the Fundamentalist Christians believing the Jews are "God's chosen people" (whatever the heck that means) they look like a natural fit for the Republicans. Lost in the past, warmongering and irrationally religious. Doesn't sound like any liberal or progressive I know.
Now that we've established that, let's see how many American Jews want to live like this.
And why is it you are a Jewish supporter of Israel first and an American second? We would run most others out on a rail if they took this position. And yet our Congress did it and we sit by idly lobbing spit balls.
Because that's what it is. What Israel was fifty years ago is no more relevant than what the United States was fifty years ago when it comes to governing in the here and now.
Couched in these terms with the Fundamentalist Christians believing the Jews are "God's chosen people" (whatever the heck that means) they look like a natural fit for the Republicans. Lost in the past, warmongering and irrationally religious. Doesn't sound like any liberal or progressive I know.
Now that we've established that, let's see how many American Jews want to live like this.
And why is it you are a Jewish supporter of Israel first and an American second? We would run most others out on a rail if they took this position. And yet our Congress did it and we sit by idly lobbing spit balls.
1
The reality is that the United States cannot maintain what little credibility it has left on issues like human rights and democracy, if it continues its blind and unquestioning support of Israel. The refrain has long been that Israel is a staunch ally of the United States and is the only democracy in the Middle East. But Israel now looks a colonial power focused on land grabs and oppression of other ethnicities who have equal claim to the land. Israel is more like apartheid South Africa than a modern Western Democracy
Further, Mr. Netanyahu has inserted himself in the abyss of American hyper-partisan politics, insulted the President too many times to count and actively sought to destabilize the Middle East with hyperbolic language and fearmongering. While the US has not been an objective arbiter between warring sides in the Middle East for a long time, Israel has failed to respect the need for the United States to at least appear somewhat balanced if any long-term peace agreement is to be realized.
To expect democrats and independents in the United States to continue to support Israel in light of recent trends tests the limits of what is reasonable. Israeli's need to ask themselves what they think your average American gets (other than insults, arrogance and scorn) in return for American support. From our view we get to send billions of dollars in aid, we get interference in our politics and we get a raft of Islmaic nations who want to destroy us. No thanks.
Further, Mr. Netanyahu has inserted himself in the abyss of American hyper-partisan politics, insulted the President too many times to count and actively sought to destabilize the Middle East with hyperbolic language and fearmongering. While the US has not been an objective arbiter between warring sides in the Middle East for a long time, Israel has failed to respect the need for the United States to at least appear somewhat balanced if any long-term peace agreement is to be realized.
To expect democrats and independents in the United States to continue to support Israel in light of recent trends tests the limits of what is reasonable. Israeli's need to ask themselves what they think your average American gets (other than insults, arrogance and scorn) in return for American support. From our view we get to send billions of dollars in aid, we get interference in our politics and we get a raft of Islmaic nations who want to destroy us. No thanks.
1
I am a Democrat who is currently re-evaluating my support for the Democratic Party.
My grandparents, parents, uncles 7 aunts, have all been Democrats, union members all.
But at the Democratic Convention this past fall, the Party's anti-Semitic Left wing decided to push the issue of changing the national platform to exclude recognition of Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. Then the Party's leadership, apparently worried that the Jews might not vote in "droves," walked their party's leftist platform back to the point of again including Jerusalem as the capitol of the Jewish People.
I admit I was a bit disturbed by what the media reported as netanyahu's statements. Turned out that it wasn't true, but what the heck. Close enough. Turned out Netanyahu voiced concern over Obama's political advisers in Israel drumming up support among Arabs for Bibi's demise. But that was nonsense. It's not like our President is petty; just ask Senator Menendez!
I don't like racists, as a rule, and certainly not in my Democratic party. I'm sticking with non race-baiters like the Rev. Al Sharpton, who gets up on stage with all my favorite Dems every four years to have his "you know what" kissed.
Anyway, I'm re-evaluating my unconditional support for the Democratic Party because when someone asks me about the Dems position on Jerusalem, I retort, "Which one?"
Thank you Barack, for sending fascist Iran your greetings.
And sending your Jewish Dem supporters a message also.
We got it!
My grandparents, parents, uncles 7 aunts, have all been Democrats, union members all.
But at the Democratic Convention this past fall, the Party's anti-Semitic Left wing decided to push the issue of changing the national platform to exclude recognition of Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. Then the Party's leadership, apparently worried that the Jews might not vote in "droves," walked their party's leftist platform back to the point of again including Jerusalem as the capitol of the Jewish People.
I admit I was a bit disturbed by what the media reported as netanyahu's statements. Turned out that it wasn't true, but what the heck. Close enough. Turned out Netanyahu voiced concern over Obama's political advisers in Israel drumming up support among Arabs for Bibi's demise. But that was nonsense. It's not like our President is petty; just ask Senator Menendez!
I don't like racists, as a rule, and certainly not in my Democratic party. I'm sticking with non race-baiters like the Rev. Al Sharpton, who gets up on stage with all my favorite Dems every four years to have his "you know what" kissed.
Anyway, I'm re-evaluating my unconditional support for the Democratic Party because when someone asks me about the Dems position on Jerusalem, I retort, "Which one?"
Thank you Barack, for sending fascist Iran your greetings.
And sending your Jewish Dem supporters a message also.
We got it!
1
Netanyahu is an arrogant politician who strategically sought to ingratiate himself with the U.S. Republican party by dissing President Obama. He strategically aligned himself with the GOP to pander to Christian fundamentalists in order to win the Israeli election. Last month the world learned that Netanyahu deliberately lied to the UN general assembly in Sept., 2012 about Iran's nuclear capability. He held up a figure of a time bomb and pointed to a red line seeming to alarm the world about Iran's intentions. In Oct., 2012, Israel’s intelligence agency, Mossad, sent a top-secret cable to South Africa’s state security agency saying that the Islamic Republic was “not performing the activity necessary to produce weapons and doesn’t appear to be ready to enrich Uranium to the higher levels needed to the nuclear bomb.“
He then spreads more fear and alarm before Congress about Iran in order to disrupt the peace process. While campaigning he pandered to Israelis insecurities by sounding the tribal war drums even reminding them that Arabs were able to vote in elections. He also pledged to not allow a two-state solution in Palestine further angering his Arab neighbors in a volatile region. Netanyahu is a divisive politician who leads through negative tactics including lying and disrespecting other cultures. The anger and resentment of those who are disgusted with his tactics is only natural. I believe he gambled, won the Israeli election although lost global respect in the process.
He then spreads more fear and alarm before Congress about Iran in order to disrupt the peace process. While campaigning he pandered to Israelis insecurities by sounding the tribal war drums even reminding them that Arabs were able to vote in elections. He also pledged to not allow a two-state solution in Palestine further angering his Arab neighbors in a volatile region. Netanyahu is a divisive politician who leads through negative tactics including lying and disrespecting other cultures. The anger and resentment of those who are disgusted with his tactics is only natural. I believe he gambled, won the Israeli election although lost global respect in the process.
1
Sad realities---Netanyahu lacks the emotional intelligence required of a good leader and has made many foolish choices and mistakes, from his handling of the Kerry Peace Plan to his choice of Ambassador in Washington. It is also true, however, that Obama has never earned the trust of a majority of Israelis, on a basic gut level, nor has he seemed much bothered by that fact.
1
Instead of focusing on Netanyahu or the Republicans or Democrats, we should be asking: how can we support the important work of Israeli and Palestinian nonviolent activists on the ground who are advocating a just and nonviolent two-state solution? Why continue to support the entrenched and ill-conceived policies of either of our political parties? And why not demand that the mainstream press actually report on the nonviolent coalitions that have been formed in spite of the wall???
1
Of Course Democrats and Israel have a future. Just read the comments. People are happy to criticize Republicans, but not Democrats. In fact, the comments appear to be that people will show their unhappiness with Bibi by voting Democrat.....as if that would upset him. There are many Jewish-American political leaders in Washington, and their are all Democrats. I am not aware that any of them have criticized Israel or Bibi, IN PUBLIC. When Israel was pounding Gaza, Chuck Shumer's only public comment concerned travel restrictions (quote: FLY TO ISRAEL). Will any political leader (of any stripe) dare criticize Israel? Does anyone remember Charles Percy?
1
When I debate the Israeli issue with my Republican friends who are big supporters of Netanyahu, I'm lectured about Jewish history in the MIddle East and the subsequent fears. Do they really think that when the jackboots are looming at the border that Bibi is not going to reach for the nuclear launch codes? Why are we sending billions of dollars to Israel? Why do we support their military? We have been their major ally since the nation was founded. Through presidents of every political party. So why does Netanyahu choose now to insult the Office of the Presidency and tread on our foreign policy? Please, somebody educate me.
1
One has to question why institutions like AIPAC, and their supporters, have not been able to come up with a ironclad solution to the Israeli and Palestinian standoff. I suppose to answer my own question, there is no need.
What I've concluded is that this is not about finding a solution, but acquiring and exercising raw power. Netanyahu is the face of that power. There is a need for those like Sheldon Adelson, Aipac and others to place their members in strategic parts of the American government and private Financial institutions to direct that power for the almost benefit of Israel.
Maintaining the status quo will guarantee that Israel continue its political domination of the US. Israelis see their supporters in the US as being able to dictate all to the benefit to their country and don't ever anticipate that will not continue for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, Obama being at first politically hamstrung by this existing power, had to accept the reality. But thanks to the arrogance of the Israeli government and the lock step by Aipac and Adelson, generated a backlash from most non-Jewish Americans and rallied to Obama's defense. That shift in sentiments have steeled Obama to confront not only Netanyahu, but able to restrain AIPAC. It has cast doubt on whether Israel can continue to wag the American dog.
What I've concluded is that this is not about finding a solution, but acquiring and exercising raw power. Netanyahu is the face of that power. There is a need for those like Sheldon Adelson, Aipac and others to place their members in strategic parts of the American government and private Financial institutions to direct that power for the almost benefit of Israel.
Maintaining the status quo will guarantee that Israel continue its political domination of the US. Israelis see their supporters in the US as being able to dictate all to the benefit to their country and don't ever anticipate that will not continue for the foreseeable future.
Unfortunately, Obama being at first politically hamstrung by this existing power, had to accept the reality. But thanks to the arrogance of the Israeli government and the lock step by Aipac and Adelson, generated a backlash from most non-Jewish Americans and rallied to Obama's defense. That shift in sentiments have steeled Obama to confront not only Netanyahu, but able to restrain AIPAC. It has cast doubt on whether Israel can continue to wag the American dog.
There will always be apologists for racism, bigotry, and land theft.
Israel is making the US less safe with its cyclical attacks on its neighboring Muslims. That is the problem. Israel is AGAINST peace in the Middle East. By creating a war zone they are able to convince naive Americans to give them 3 +billion annually as well as military support. This does not help Americans.
Until the Palestinians get SOME of THEIR land back to the 1967 boarders, Israel is an expensive ball and chain for Americans making the world less safe and fanning the flames of anti-Muslim sentiment.
Gays may have equal rights in Israel but Arab citizens of Israel do not have equal rights in Israel. Israel is a theocracy, not a democracy. It is like living in the Jim Crow American South if you are an Arab citizen of Israel.
For Arabs living in Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza, it is akin to Native Americans living in the American West in the 1800s who were systematically killed and removed from their land.
Israel is making the US less safe with its cyclical attacks on its neighboring Muslims. That is the problem. Israel is AGAINST peace in the Middle East. By creating a war zone they are able to convince naive Americans to give them 3 +billion annually as well as military support. This does not help Americans.
Until the Palestinians get SOME of THEIR land back to the 1967 boarders, Israel is an expensive ball and chain for Americans making the world less safe and fanning the flames of anti-Muslim sentiment.
Gays may have equal rights in Israel but Arab citizens of Israel do not have equal rights in Israel. Israel is a theocracy, not a democracy. It is like living in the Jim Crow American South if you are an Arab citizen of Israel.
For Arabs living in Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza, it is akin to Native Americans living in the American West in the 1800s who were systematically killed and removed from their land.
1
President Obama and Prime Minister Netanyahu are politicians.
For Obama to criticize Netanyahu's actions or words in campaign mode is the height of hypocrisy.
How many times has President Obama stated one thing and done something else later to win votes?
In the past, President Obama said he didn't have the authority to amnesty millions of illegal aliens; however, just last year, he did exactly that.
And of course he has flip flopped several times in his political career on many issues from gay rights to campaign financial reform to mention a few to be elected or shore up a voting bloc for the future. Are Obama's actions therefore any different from those of Netanyahu in election mode? By the way, I think the remarks of Netanyahu were taken out of context from his original statements. He said he didn't think that a two state solution for Israel and Palestine could come about as long as Palestine was headed by terrorists, like Hamas. I would agree with him wholeheartedly especially when Hamas will not recognize the right of a Jewish state to exist and wants the right of every displaced Palestinian to return to Israel.
For Obama to criticize Netanyahu's actions or words in campaign mode is the height of hypocrisy.
How many times has President Obama stated one thing and done something else later to win votes?
In the past, President Obama said he didn't have the authority to amnesty millions of illegal aliens; however, just last year, he did exactly that.
And of course he has flip flopped several times in his political career on many issues from gay rights to campaign financial reform to mention a few to be elected or shore up a voting bloc for the future. Are Obama's actions therefore any different from those of Netanyahu in election mode? By the way, I think the remarks of Netanyahu were taken out of context from his original statements. He said he didn't think that a two state solution for Israel and Palestine could come about as long as Palestine was headed by terrorists, like Hamas. I would agree with him wholeheartedly especially when Hamas will not recognize the right of a Jewish state to exist and wants the right of every displaced Palestinian to return to Israel.
If there was any doubt, Republicans and Bibi made Israel a partisan issue when Bibi spoke before Congress. This was done to put a finger in Obama's eye and disrespect him and Bibi damn well knew it. Republicans will do anything, no matter who is harmed to show hatred for Obama.
Being Jewish is not just about Israel, which is what Republicans think. Being Jewish is about justice, fairness, education and taking care of poor people. Tikkum Olam.
Don't be so sure American Jew will come around and always support Israel. I for one, and sad, disappointed and am questioning the whole relationship between Israel and the US.
Being Jewish is not just about Israel, which is what Republicans think. Being Jewish is about justice, fairness, education and taking care of poor people. Tikkum Olam.
Don't be so sure American Jew will come around and always support Israel. I for one, and sad, disappointed and am questioning the whole relationship between Israel and the US.
Despite suggestions in a recent Atlantic article, anti-Zionism is NOT necessarily the equivalent of anti-Semitism, but it's true that there is a connection in the minds of many people. I am not Jewish, but I do feel cringing concern when criticising Israel with people I don't know, that they will jump on some anti-Semitic bandwagon assuming that I agree with them, which I DECIDEDLY do not. I think this type of concern is related to Abrams's suggestion that Jews will in the end support Israel if it comes under strong attack in the US. If we could just clearly separate opinions about Israel as a country from feelings about the Jewish people, we would be way ahead of our current state.
With respect to the country (and not the people), I have been wanting for a very long time an explanation, in simple terms, of exactly what we are getting in exchange for our multi-billion-dollar annual support to this country, whose policies are more and more oppressive and murderous every year and whose leadership insults our own. Just that. What are we getting in return, besides rage and enmity from the Arab states?
With respect to the country (and not the people), I have been wanting for a very long time an explanation, in simple terms, of exactly what we are getting in exchange for our multi-billion-dollar annual support to this country, whose policies are more and more oppressive and murderous every year and whose leadership insults our own. Just that. What are we getting in return, besides rage and enmity from the Arab states?
7
Lead off with a story about a Jewish republican Bibi loving nut innocently wondering if the non Jewish democrats can be trusted.
How NYT.
It is not a post modernist world. It is post Orwellian.
How NYT.
It is not a post modernist world. It is post Orwellian.
4
Query,
please expound on this matter.
I didn't understand.
please expound on this matter.
I didn't understand.
It always comes back to problem of land. In 1954, 97% of current day Israel was owned and inhabited by non-Jewish Palestinians. They were forced off their land by terrorist (by today's standards) Jewish organizations, Irgun (Menachem Begin) and Haganah (Ben Gurion). A right wing tradition of terrorism that Netanyaju continues today as he takes more and more Palestinian land by force.
That is the foundation of Israel in 2015. 97% of Israel is owned by a Palestinian alive today. How does that get resolved in any democratic, just way? Netanyahu's answer is might makes right. The land belongs to Israel because Israel forced people off at the point of a gun.
As for the support by Christian dominated white right wing GOP/TeaParty of 2015, Israelis should be very careful depending on this increasingly minority group in the US. First because these people have an intrinsic hate of Jews and a history of persecuting Jews. They are using Jews to kill Muslims. If they don't need the Jews to kill Muslims (if US becomes oil independent over next five years as predicted) then the Christian GOP will quickly revert to anti-Jewish form.
For US today, the best we can for Israel is cut off the $3B a year in military aid. Israel cannot afford to keep its war machine going without this money and will forced to come to some accommodation with the Palestinians.
A one state solution with an Arab majority in Palestine is the only just and fair solution that will have any long term hope.
That is the foundation of Israel in 2015. 97% of Israel is owned by a Palestinian alive today. How does that get resolved in any democratic, just way? Netanyahu's answer is might makes right. The land belongs to Israel because Israel forced people off at the point of a gun.
As for the support by Christian dominated white right wing GOP/TeaParty of 2015, Israelis should be very careful depending on this increasingly minority group in the US. First because these people have an intrinsic hate of Jews and a history of persecuting Jews. They are using Jews to kill Muslims. If they don't need the Jews to kill Muslims (if US becomes oil independent over next five years as predicted) then the Christian GOP will quickly revert to anti-Jewish form.
For US today, the best we can for Israel is cut off the $3B a year in military aid. Israel cannot afford to keep its war machine going without this money and will forced to come to some accommodation with the Palestinians.
A one state solution with an Arab majority in Palestine is the only just and fair solution that will have any long term hope.
5
Younger Americans are tending to be more secular than in years past. Israel defines itself as a Jewish state.
Americans rejected apartheid in South Africa. Why would they view it differently in Israel?
Intermittent armed conflict in perpetuity is a ghastly and tiresome prospect. Don't expect Americans of any party to sign on. How much of the Palestinian-Arab-Israeli conflict could be ended by having all of Jerusalem become a United Nations protectorate? Where is the leadership on all sides that will put furthering life ahead of fighting over jointly-sacred real estate and icons?
If a Jewish state expects American support longer-term, its leaders needs to soon demonstrate leadership to exit this morass.
Americans rejected apartheid in South Africa. Why would they view it differently in Israel?
Intermittent armed conflict in perpetuity is a ghastly and tiresome prospect. Don't expect Americans of any party to sign on. How much of the Palestinian-Arab-Israeli conflict could be ended by having all of Jerusalem become a United Nations protectorate? Where is the leadership on all sides that will put furthering life ahead of fighting over jointly-sacred real estate and icons?
If a Jewish state expects American support longer-term, its leaders needs to soon demonstrate leadership to exit this morass.
5
Wrong question. Does Israel support progressive policies and democracy or is it in the process of adopting a right wing social and military agenda? Israel's policies under Netanyahu are what is separating it from Democrats as much as the fact that Netanyahu has cast his lot decisively and exclusively with the GOP.
4
Approve the United Nations Security resolution for a Palestinian state.
Recall Ron Dermer as Ambassador to the United States. (Ok, originally from Miami, Fl.)
End all funding to Israel.
Protect the Palestinian Christians, whom the Israelis hate because they are Palestinians. Remember Bethlehem is in Palestine but being invaded by Jewish "settlers".
Recall Ron Dermer as Ambassador to the United States. (Ok, originally from Miami, Fl.)
End all funding to Israel.
Protect the Palestinian Christians, whom the Israelis hate because they are Palestinians. Remember Bethlehem is in Palestine but being invaded by Jewish "settlers".
7
democracies are messy and contentious
israel has been under siege since day one and its stress and anxiety are not pretty to see but they have few good options if they are to survive
at best, theirs is a flawed journey and it is painful for many of us to witness
israel has been under siege since day one and its stress and anxiety are not pretty to see but they have few good options if they are to survive
at best, theirs is a flawed journey and it is painful for many of us to witness
Very sad. This reminds in many ways of how Catholics felt through the 80's and 90's as the church swung rightward, and then just completely alienated them during the sexual abuse cases in the 2000s. Many of my American Jewish friends of younger generations seem to be experiencing something my younger Catholic friends went through ten years ago - the values of the institutions that they and their families once held dear have been perverted through the Gaza assault and the blatant racism of the Netanyahu administration. It is sad when certain power hungry people claim to speak for an entire group.
5
I read the columns on this topic and get frustrated by the lack of common sense of the writers - it is always an issue of pro-. Isreali and pro-Palestenian subject. We non-Jews Americans do not see it that way - for us it is a question of fairness and decency and human rights.
One great Saint of nineteenth century said - it is not the laws and actions of government that makes a country great, it is their citizens. The quality of citizens reflects the country's emotions and state of mind. Today, citizen's of Isreal are mostly hateful, arrogant, full of deceit - their leader reflects their state.
Citizens of US are not in the same group, inspite of existence of Tea Party - we still have majority who thinks about fairness, human rights and decency. Why we should be a natural Allie of such a different country. This contradiction has to be resolved.
One great Saint of nineteenth century said - it is not the laws and actions of government that makes a country great, it is their citizens. The quality of citizens reflects the country's emotions and state of mind. Today, citizen's of Isreal are mostly hateful, arrogant, full of deceit - their leader reflects their state.
Citizens of US are not in the same group, inspite of existence of Tea Party - we still have majority who thinks about fairness, human rights and decency. Why we should be a natural Allie of such a different country. This contradiction has to be resolved.
1
The Democrats and Jewish people will always support Israel. The Jewish people will flock to the Democratic Party because they are the party of liberal ideas (abortion, gay marriage, etc.) and the Republicans tend to lean more conservatively. Of course, the Republicans will accept any votes they can acquire as they have become opportunistic in recent years. I do hope the Republicans do not neglect their Catholic and Protestant base as this would be unfortunate. There is always the independent party that could siphon away votes from the Republicans.
First one needs to ask whether they even have each a separate future.
For years now the future has appeared to be solidly in the grasp of spinelessness (instead of Democratic politicians able to fight for anything) and settlements on seized land for Israel (instead of working for a sustainable co-existence with Palestine).
For years now the future has appeared to be solidly in the grasp of spinelessness (instead of Democratic politicians able to fight for anything) and settlements on seized land for Israel (instead of working for a sustainable co-existence with Palestine).
2
This is still unresolved from the British post colonial period. The Palestinians, and the Arab world, turned down a 2 state solution in 1948 because they didn't, and the Palestinians still don't, support the right of Jews to have sovereignty over any part of the Middle East. When and if they change their mind, there will be peace. At a time when the Middle East is in turmoil, facing a bloody realignment, with Israel threatened from Gaza by Hamas, and Lebanon by Hezbollah, and now instability in the Golan Heights, and ISIS, security is a life or death situation,
3
Jews in New York City overwhelmingly vote Democratic and will continue to do so. Here in NYC their support for Israel is stronger then ever.
Elliot Abrams and his neocon colleagues are directly responsible for the debacles in Iraq and Afghanistan and the general state of affairs in the the middle east. Why does anyone give him a forum? And,does anyone actually think that Christian right wingers like Hagee have any interest in Israel other than as a vehicle to bring about the end-of-times that they fervently wish for? Me, I can hold off on the end-of- time.
7
Mr. Netanyahu didn't get along with President Clinton either. Perhaps the problem with Israel's future is not America's.
3
Do Democrats and Israel have a future? Why not? Are Democrats going to leave the Democratic Party in sizable numbers to vote for Republicans who deny rights of women, of union members, validity of climate change, while dismantling funding for state universities and community colleges? As you know, the list is much longer. If Hillary Clinton gives support to Israel with clear reservations, will that destroy her candidacy while a Republican is giving Israel an unconditional bear hug? Hardly. When the Obama spokesman makes a threatening statement about reevaluating our relationship with Israel, how will that happen? If it does, it will be very measured. Support will continue. Israel, faced with hostile neighbors, has created its own success and it too has a future. With its democratic processes, there's a possibility that its next Prime Minister, rejecting Netanyahu, will pursue a new course. Some modifications of our relationship, rather than rejection, are appropriate and overdue. Finally, Democrats, angry at Netanyahu, are unlikely to find a home with Republicans who will be cheering the same man.
I found this article very upsetting. It perpetuates the false assumption that one cannot both be pro-Israel and disagree with Israeli policy at the same time. It really isn't much different from the view that anyone who opposed the Iraq war was anti-American.
5
The progressives will listen to Hillary even less than they will to Elliot.
1
One of the most enlightening books I have ever read on the whole Israel/Palestine dilemma was by Sari Nusseibeh--Once Upon a Country, A Palestinian Life. It is the story of a man who has seen is family lose its land in 1948, and repeatedly seen his people displaced, disenfranchised, and bullied. The man justly calls himself a Palestinian moderate, an academic who has taught at the Al Quds University and is now President there. Nusseibeh has witnessed little justice in his life, but never stopped fighting for it. The Israelis have consistently treated him as a pariah and a threat. As he says in his book-- The message is, 'You can forget about negotiations after the war because we are going to make sure there is no one to talk to'
We have been giving Israel 3 billion dollars a year for 45+ years and they will not commit to peace. And Netanyahu spits in our face. The Palestinians are people and deserve better. It is time for Israel to face the music at the UN and in the World Court. Enough. Genug.
We have been giving Israel 3 billion dollars a year for 45+ years and they will not commit to peace. And Netanyahu spits in our face. The Palestinians are people and deserve better. It is time for Israel to face the music at the UN and in the World Court. Enough. Genug.
4
I guess that all depends on whether Israel continues down its current path. If so, I certainly hope not.
3
When Ron Dermer says, "And then you have respect for minority rights in Israel.” I burst out laughing. If Israel granted the Palestinians equal rights to the rights enjoyed by Israeli Jews, with no racial discrimination, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would be over. And could have been settled decades ago.
3
Funny that there isn't a column asking if Democrats and Saudi Arabia have a future together.
As sad as the current relations have become, there may be some value for both countries in being seen by the world as more independent of each other. And in case no one has noticed, Israel has been experiencing improved relations in the Third World including India and China. American critics of Israel forget (or never knew) how many times Israel backed the U.S. diplomatically when it was not necessarily in her long term interest.
1
American Jews had very good luck with one Republican President. Maybe one day soon they'll find another one like him.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/arts/design/lincoln-and-the-jews-explo...
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/20/arts/design/lincoln-and-the-jews-explo...
2
Democrats, particularly liberals, have always expressed support for human rights endeavors. We have always championed Israel's statehood and its standing as a pillar of democracy in the Middle East.
But we also witnessed the treatment and denial of the same rights offered Palestine. Hamas would not exist if the Israeli government had not imposed current conditions, including human rights violations, on the citizens of Gaza. That's how I see it and how young Americans see it too.
That does not mean we cannot pursue an overdue two state solution. Hamas would either have to change its opinion of Israel or become irrelevant.
But we also witnessed the treatment and denial of the same rights offered Palestine. Hamas would not exist if the Israeli government had not imposed current conditions, including human rights violations, on the citizens of Gaza. That's how I see it and how young Americans see it too.
That does not mean we cannot pursue an overdue two state solution. Hamas would either have to change its opinion of Israel or become irrelevant.
3
No more US dollars to Israel under any circumstances! 20 years ago I was in favor of a peaceful two state solution. Now I favor a Palestinian state, with or without a corresponding Israeli state. And I would way rather see diplomacy extended to Iran than Israel anyway. Their human rights records are about equal.
I'll have to end my comment here because the article reminds me I need to go and donate money to a pro-Palestinian organization.
I'll have to end my comment here because the article reminds me I need to go and donate money to a pro-Palestinian organization.
4
You don't have to be a Jew to know that Mr. Netanyahu clearly overstepped his mark by agreeing to address the U.S. Congress without even so much as a word to the White House -- an outrageous breach of diplomatic protocol on every level. His clear disdain for this country's highest elected official is matched only by his arrogance.
Mr. Netanyahu will have to work miracles in order to correct his recent series of political blunders -- including that 11th hour election turnaround about supporting a Palestinian state after literally denouncing Arabs as being inferior, before this Democrat would ever think of taking him seriously.
Mr. Netanyahu will have to work miracles in order to correct his recent series of political blunders -- including that 11th hour election turnaround about supporting a Palestinian state after literally denouncing Arabs as being inferior, before this Democrat would ever think of taking him seriously.
2
It is very weird way of asking question: it implies that US Democrats are at front for horrible policies of Netanyahu’s right-wing government. The better question would be - I Netanyahu’s right-wing government has future with the US and the rest of the world?
1
I am an Israeli supporter, but I am deeply anti settlement and anti religious extremism.
There is no justification for continued settlement activity. None.
On the other hand, I know that if Israel needs to defend itself, it will stand alone.
There is no justification for continued settlement activity. None.
On the other hand, I know that if Israel needs to defend itself, it will stand alone.
Based on the comments here it seems like the Jewish votes in America may soon move to the R column.
3 billion in aid annually and that idiot BiBi time and time again disrespects the president of the united states. Smh
3
Netanyahu's lack of deference (in public) to the U.S. President has been a huge unforced error. First it was support for Romney, and then the recent antics leading up to the Israeli election. BN has unnecessarily alienated democrats who after all were able to elect President Obama twice and will likely elect the next U.S. President.
By making himself the issue, instead of his proposed policies, Netanyahu has made a strategic blunder from which there can be no recovery. He has to go, sooner rather than later. No future U.S. President can follow his lead without being rightfully subject to charges that s/he isn't in charge of U.S. policy.
By making himself the issue, instead of his proposed policies, Netanyahu has made a strategic blunder from which there can be no recovery. He has to go, sooner rather than later. No future U.S. President can follow his lead without being rightfully subject to charges that s/he isn't in charge of U.S. policy.
2
At the end of this article Elliott Abrams' grandson loses his marbles. The body of this piece describes the right wing in Israel and the US losing theirs.
1
“I think the progressive case for Israel is an easy case to make,” he went on. “We’re the only country that’s had a chief justice of the Supreme Court, a speaker of the Knesset and a prime minister who were women. You have gay rights in Israel. You have a gay-pride parade in Tel Aviv, and gays all around the region are strung up in public squares. And then you have respect for minority rights in Israel.”
But the Republican base in America doesn't want any of these things. So, as much as it breaks my heart, when AIPAC et. al. force me to choose between Israel and the Democratic Party, I choose the latter.
But the Republican base in America doesn't want any of these things. So, as much as it breaks my heart, when AIPAC et. al. force me to choose between Israel and the Democratic Party, I choose the latter.
2
Count me in for the "everyone else".........
There are two disturbing assumptions built into this article. The first is that "support" for Israel must mean lack of any sympathy for the Palestinians (see paragraph 8). The second is that Israel will never allow a peaceful solution to the conflict (because otherwise the Democrats would have no problem with Israel in the future). I wish these things weren't true, but I guess it is better to have it out in the open.
I'm a Jew and I support Israel. I always have and I always will. But I don't support Netanyahu and I deplore the actions he has taken recently. I'm so disgusted by him that I would absolutely support temporary cuts in aid to Israel, since it would almost certainly trigger the collapse of his government and give my fellow Jews in Israel a chance to fix their mistake and throw this bum out. He's doing more damage to Israel than anything else right now.
3
No. The rhetoric doesn't match the reality
Would any US citizen want to live in Palestine?
Would they feel oppressed? How would they like to be chided if they are a non jew and thought they would like to vote ... and a democracy to boot!
Nope, Israel is not a liberal democracy
Would any US citizen want to live in Palestine?
Would they feel oppressed? How would they like to be chided if they are a non jew and thought they would like to vote ... and a democracy to boot!
Nope, Israel is not a liberal democracy
2
For akk practical purposes Likud is a part of the GOP. They have GOP staffers advising them and GOP donors financing them. Bibi's actions are a preview of the 2016 election. If they can divide jews it will hurt t=Democrats.
Netanyahu has been the "Republican" prime minister of Israel for many years. He's been as happy to see an irreparably divided America as he's been to refuse to deal with an irreparably divided Palestine. He knows that regardless of Democrats, Israel will continue to get US financial support and to maintain ultimate control of the West Bank and Gaza.
While Israel is not nearly as awful as the boycott crowd would say, especially compared with others to whom they blindly give a pass, Netanyahu is energetically dragging it downward. It will be telling if US Democrats like Menendez and Booker, who exposed themselves last year as AIPAC pawns when they shamelessly tried to disrupt Iran negotiations, suddenly get out of the President's way because they know they can get away with it politically. If the politics have indeed moved that way, Israel will have itself and Netanyahu to blame.
I find it interesting that many Americans have lost sight of the existential threat that looms over Israel. Imagine moving the Vatican onto land between Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia...how long would it survive as a Catholic entity?
2
If we're talking Dixiecrats, then yes.
I hate to admit it, but I am fed up with Israel. I am fed up with their horrendous treatment of Palestinians, and I am fed up with their equally horrendous treatment of us. I want out of this relationship.
3
Jewish people are 1.5% of the U.S. population (yes, you can look it up). Is there any other group with a similar proportion of the vote to which media and politicians pay such outsized attention? If yes, whom? If not, why not?
2
Besides buyings arms from our military industrial sector, precisely what does Israel do for the USA?
1
Amend that to read: Besides buyings arms from our military industrial sector, WITH OUR OWN MONEY, precisely what does Israel do for the USA?
Benjamin Netanyahu’s problem in the United States is not everyone else.
His problem is Obama and at least half of the Democrats. Everyone else is on his side.
His problem is Obama and at least half of the Democrats. Everyone else is on his side.
Movie Star Trips to Israel and a Republican front man as their ambassador to the US; I'd say the future of the American love affair with Israel is in doubt.
1
Since Netanyahu has directly allied himself with the GOP, and because Israeli voters resoundingly endorse that partisan policy, it is appropriate for Democrats to downsize Israel's importance in future foreign aid expenditures.
Now that Israel is an opponent of the Democratic party, it would be foolish not to acknowledge that political reality and take counter measures to undermine Israel's influence within the U.S.
Now that Israel is an opponent of the Democratic party, it would be foolish not to acknowledge that political reality and take counter measures to undermine Israel's influence within the U.S.
Granted Israel cannot make peace by itself, but what the Israeli right doesnt seem to get is that its approach has lost Israel much of the moral high ground in the eyes of others. That was a strategic error. Soft power counts as much as hard in the long run. Now they are reduced to pandering to the political right in the US, which is only going to further reduce overall support for Israel.
Israel is well represented, it does not have to worry about loosing support. Nobody is backing the Palestinians they are the ones caught in the ghettos, they are the ones who are suffering, it is amazing how this is ignored in the West.
1
Not with Likud and the religious right in charge.
I don't see in this article that there are some human righta abuses By Isreal. The theme is Israel is being judged too harshly by democrats
The actions of Bibi are going to have a negative impact on Jewish people and their houses of worship all over the world.
No future as the Democratic Party has been swallowed by the Left.
I am a non-Jewish democratic voter who tends to lean progressive, but not always. For most of my adult life I didn't question our support for Israel. But the last 5 -10 years have gradually changed my mind, and this is the last and final straw: Netanyahu calling "droves" of Arab voters a threat. Voters are not threats-- they are people who deserve to have their voices heard and their needs met. Anytime you use voters as a scare tactic, you reveal yourself as an oppressor and an impediment to progress.
1
I just could not finish reading this article.....my President is Obama....he gets enough disrespect without having Netanyahu in his face all the time. We are your friends Bibi........the United States has financially contributed large sum of money for your defense.......and you have turned your back.
Enough of Netanyahu....and yes I am a Democrat . You cast your lot with the Republicans.....good luck.
Enough of Netanyahu....and yes I am a Democrat . You cast your lot with the Republicans.....good luck.
1
Frankly I don't care what they have or don't have in Israel. I only know that AIPAC and its minions are giving millions to elect right wing Republicans who, while unconditionally and uncritically supporting Israel, also support the dismantling of 100 years of Progressivism here in America: workers' rights, women's rights, civil rights, voting rights, gay and lesbian rights, rights for the disabled, immigrant rights and the list goes on.
Jewish Americans used to be at the forefront, if not the spearhead, of the struggles for these rights.
Jewish Americans used to be at the forefront, if not the spearhead, of the struggles for these rights.
1
President Obama should immediately appoint an Ambassador pro tempore to the State of Palestine.
2
I have often heard conservative Americans voice openly anti-Semitic opinions. Richard Nixon and Pat Buchanan certainly weren't too shy about it. I'm not sure Republican support for Israel is completely rock-solid. This departure from the traditional Israeli relationship with the US seems very, very risky.
2
Pat Buchanan once famously observed that Capitol Hill was Israeli occupied territory. To our detriment, it remains so.
Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer are, once again showing their duplicitous and dishonest nature. Mr. Netanyahu will continue his tantrums because he know he can get away with it and we (with Republican help) allow him to. It is time to call his bluff; stop all aid to Israel and wait for some sense and honesty to prevail. Three Billion Dollars a year is a lot of OUR money, which talks. If we can stop aid, watch how quickly Mr. Netanyahu and his allies come to a two state solution! Enough of this nonsense.
3
One problem for Israel's relations with Democrats is Sheldon Adelson. He is not just a major funding source for U.S. Republicans, but also for Netanyahu. Both Republicans and Netanyahu are dancing with him who brought them.
Sheldon Adelson has become, to an increasing extent, the face of pro-Israel American Jews. And it ain't a pretty sight.
Sheldon Adelson has become, to an increasing extent, the face of pro-Israel American Jews. And it ain't a pretty sight.
2
I used to support Israel - -but no longer.
2
Israel has a problem with the Iran deal? So does France. When Hollande is at the right of Obama, WE have a problem.
1
The Democrats and Israel do have a future together. What they don't have is a present.
In this time of sadness and anger, the Democrats cannot pretend that nothing has changed. They cannot allow Netanyahu et al. to wreck the deal with Iran. They cannot continue to support the Netanyahu regime which has made a two-state solution (nearly) impossible and has forsworn it, regardless of Netanyahu's attempt to take back his plain words.
I will feel greatly relieved to finally hear criticism of Israel's policies which have heretofore been sacrosanct. It's time for everybody to grow up and treat Israel like another country, sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
In this time of sadness and anger, the Democrats cannot pretend that nothing has changed. They cannot allow Netanyahu et al. to wreck the deal with Iran. They cannot continue to support the Netanyahu regime which has made a two-state solution (nearly) impossible and has forsworn it, regardless of Netanyahu's attempt to take back his plain words.
I will feel greatly relieved to finally hear criticism of Israel's policies which have heretofore been sacrosanct. It's time for everybody to grow up and treat Israel like another country, sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
2
It is easy to criticize Israel endlessly, but in fairness, it is not within Israel's power to make peace alone. I would love to see the international community push for a two-state solution that demanded Israel pull back to the 1967 borders and Hamas accept Israel's right to exist. The Palestinians in Gaza suffer horribly, but they are victims of an authoritarian non-elected government (surely the 2006 election is no longer valid) that is completely indifferent to the rights and needs of their people. Why do they always get a free pass?
I love Israel. Their REAL security needs are my number one foreign policy concern. That does NOT mean I love the Likud party. Far from it
People here who love Israel need to make that clear. Could someone in the last decade love the United States and not love Geo W's foreign policy? We need to show people it's basically the same thing.
The Likud party is NOT Israel, any more the the Republicans are the US. They may win some elections, it's true. And most unfortunate.
People here who love Israel need to make that clear. Could someone in the last decade love the United States and not love Geo W's foreign policy? We need to show people it's basically the same thing.
The Likud party is NOT Israel, any more the the Republicans are the US. They may win some elections, it's true. And most unfortunate.
2
The anti-Israel comments that appear in the Times each day vastly exceed in number, intensity and crudity of expression those appearing in opposition to ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas, Assad, Ayatollah Khomeini, Putin and
Kim Jong-il, ALL COMBINED.
They serve as a valuable reminder, for anyone needing them, that Jews together with Israel, their historic homeland, remain an endangered people and nation, notwithstanding their remarkable achievements in Israel and the U.S.
(One can only the imagine the hate and bitterness that is being expressed in anti-Israel comments that the Times
is receiving but not posting. I wish the paper would print all of them.)
Kim Jong-il, ALL COMBINED.
They serve as a valuable reminder, for anyone needing them, that Jews together with Israel, their historic homeland, remain an endangered people and nation, notwithstanding their remarkable achievements in Israel and the U.S.
(One can only the imagine the hate and bitterness that is being expressed in anti-Israel comments that the Times
is receiving but not posting. I wish the paper would print all of them.)
4
No. Israel can defend itself. 200 nukes, at least 100000 Merkava tanks, what do you want more suffering? It's the israeli state behavior, that won't stay on with the reality. They didn't even try to ally with Arabs.
Every poll taken by Gallup for the past 15 years indicates the group with the highest level of Anti-Semitism in America are African-Americans. As they are the current base of the Democratic Party that makes the Israel situation extremely difficult for Jewish Democrats, of which I am one. I'm surprised it took this long for the situation to reach an apex. ISIS is running rampant. Egypt has had a US-backed military coup as has Ukraine. Saudi Arabia and Iran are theocratic terrorist states. Iraq is a bloody mess. Anti-Semitism is rampant through Europe. And yet all the media and the President can focus on is a housing/border squabble in Israel?
1
We should end all financial support for Israel.
Israel should look elsewhere for support of its hateful, bigoted regime
Israel should look elsewhere for support of its hateful, bigoted regime
4
"And Republicans like Abrams worry that the increased Democratic pressure could result in a weakening of American support for Israel in the United Nations. It may already be happening. This week, White House officials suggested that Obama might now support a Security Council resolution calling for the establishment of a sovereign Palestine."
Why is supporting a sovereign Palestine presented as not supporting Isreal? A sovereign Palestine is the only long term solution for Isreali security.
Why is supporting a sovereign Palestine presented as not supporting Isreal? A sovereign Palestine is the only long term solution for Isreali security.
1
The willingness of Israeli leaders to find succor among the kooky right is the most disturbing part of this article. "Four big red moons"??? I can't believe Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer are drinking that koolaid so it makes their actions seem both cynical and shortsighted.
Israel and I were born in the same year. Until recently, I never thought I would question our unqualified support. But now, the argument that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East rings hollow when I think of Palestinians living under occupation for decades, for entire lives -- with no rights at all. More and more people are asking this question: We are allies and we know what we do for them, but what do they do in return? Insulting our president is not a good answer to that question. Israel needs a PR campaign that is based on more than 'we deserve your support because we are us.' Maybe crafting an effective communications effort would lead to insights that might alter what is too often bad behavior.
1
“Fifty-year-olds are always more supportive than 18-year-olds,” he said. “And so give them 30 years, and they will be more supportive. I don’t see any long-term erosion of support.”
Well I'm 75 and my support for Israeli policy erodes day by day. Especially when I see Sheldon Adelson and Pastor Hagee pulling the strings.
Well I'm 75 and my support for Israeli policy erodes day by day. Especially when I see Sheldon Adelson and Pastor Hagee pulling the strings.
1
I am even older, and my support for Israel dissolved in 1967, with the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty and the murders of 34 US sailors with the accompanying coverup by our own Government. It's gratifiying to have now been proved so essentially correct after so long.
Count me among non-Jewish Democrats who are done with supporting Israel. We might have more success getting peace if we just took the billions we are now giving to Israel and instead gave the money to Jordan to use to develop the West Bank. A more prosperous West Bank would go a long way toward giving Israel greater security, but Netanyahu is blind to that fact. Of course, no man is blinder than one who will not see.
1
I don't think there are any Jewish Republican House Members now that Kantor is gone. Israel should look at who they are getting in bed with. The truth is Israel wants to expand and take more land and the WHOLE rest of the world disagrees with what they are doing. And the US has no plans to use our treasure or our youth to fight wars for them. So the ball is in Israel's court. I wish them well.
The pathological sickness of progressive ideology is easily seen by the support of Islamists over Israel.
Derek,
You put your finger on the problem.
Israel has been playing the false 'us or them' game since the murder of Rabin.
You put your finger on the problem.
Israel has been playing the false 'us or them' game since the murder of Rabin.
The problem for Israel is that even though it is true that the country is the only genuine liberal democracy in the Middle East, that it has Arab citizens who can vote, that it has an independent court system that goes a long way to protect rights and all the rest, it is all viewed against a backdrop of the daily oppression of a non-voting Arab minority whose land is gradually being taken from them and whose lives already begin to resemble the existence of blacks under Apartheid in S Africa.
We hear all the time about the threats to Israel's existence. But those of us who have lived long enough remember also when Israel was genuinely under threat from Arab neighbors in Egypt, Jordan and Syria whose governments presented a real extensional threat. Now Syria is a chaotic mess, the other countries have made peace and Israel's power in the region is largely unchallenged. Yet still we hear of threats that threaten its existence to justify oppression.
The world is turning against Israel. And if Israel continues on its current course, so will many Americans.
We hear all the time about the threats to Israel's existence. But those of us who have lived long enough remember also when Israel was genuinely under threat from Arab neighbors in Egypt, Jordan and Syria whose governments presented a real extensional threat. Now Syria is a chaotic mess, the other countries have made peace and Israel's power in the region is largely unchallenged. Yet still we hear of threats that threaten its existence to justify oppression.
The world is turning against Israel. And if Israel continues on its current course, so will many Americans.
2
Dream on. Not one Democratic Senator--and not even the vaunted Independent Bernie Sanders--had the courage to call Israel's murder of women and children in Gaza last summer exactly what it was--murder.
A recent NY Times story described how liberal Jewish rabbis cannot discuss nuances of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with their congregations and hope to keep their jobs..
So easy to forget the truth of Israel's founding as a nation--the terrorist Irgun and Stern Gang, whose members eventually became, in the eyes of most of the world, grizzled statesmen. All of us Democratic Jews of a certain generation grew up convinced--as Irish Catholic Democrats were convinced about the IRA--that our terrorists were freedom fighters.
A commenter on a related story is making the huge sacrifice, this year, of not buying Israeli matzah or kosher wine for his Passover seder. That'll show 'em!
When it comes to meaningful action to show Israel that its crimes against humanity will be judged as we judged the Germans, the Japanese, the Serbs, the Rwandans--it will never happen. Lots of Jewish angst but no true Jewish courage.
A recent NY Times story described how liberal Jewish rabbis cannot discuss nuances of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict with their congregations and hope to keep their jobs..
So easy to forget the truth of Israel's founding as a nation--the terrorist Irgun and Stern Gang, whose members eventually became, in the eyes of most of the world, grizzled statesmen. All of us Democratic Jews of a certain generation grew up convinced--as Irish Catholic Democrats were convinced about the IRA--that our terrorists were freedom fighters.
A commenter on a related story is making the huge sacrifice, this year, of not buying Israeli matzah or kosher wine for his Passover seder. That'll show 'em!
When it comes to meaningful action to show Israel that its crimes against humanity will be judged as we judged the Germans, the Japanese, the Serbs, the Rwandans--it will never happen. Lots of Jewish angst but no true Jewish courage.
4
To those bashing the Prime Minister and those that lost faith in Israel I ask in July 2009 there was an approved peace plan by the government of Israel, can any of you name all five points? I would guess less than 10% can. Wonder why? But I am sure most know exactly what the PA demands are.
Israel is saying, we are serious, we are ready for peace, but we are not suckers, nor are we unreasonable either. We want peace on real terms. We are done experimenting with our survival.
Israel is saying, we are serious, we are ready for peace, but we are not suckers, nor are we unreasonable either. We want peace on real terms. We are done experimenting with our survival.
2
Derner is moving the goalposts. The problem is he and netanyahu are attempting to use Israel against the dems in the u.s.
The college students may include radicals but their main complaint has traction and a lot more now thanks to netanyahu's electioneering. U.s. college students aren't the problem. Derner's attempt to make Israel a partisan issue is. Don't forget who wanted this change to happen, if it does! Repeatedly campaigning in the u.s. for the gop will change a lot of neutral dem minds.
The college students may include radicals but their main complaint has traction and a lot more now thanks to netanyahu's electioneering. U.s. college students aren't the problem. Derner's attempt to make Israel a partisan issue is. Don't forget who wanted this change to happen, if it does! Repeatedly campaigning in the u.s. for the gop will change a lot of neutral dem minds.
Frankly, I can see no valid reason to support Netanyahu's vision of Israel at the expense of so many who are disenfranchised in so many ways. The man's a war monger.
1
Obama favors Iran as a dominant power. He is doing everything he can to help Iran to destroy Israel. Netenyahu is just a convenient excuse.
With great power comes great responsibility. Yes, Israel has had women lead it's major institutions, yes, gays are openly accepted, but that's not enough. Likud, like the Tea Party, cannot pick and choose what they like as solutions and slam the door on any other voice (how is it gays are "good" but Arabs "bad"). To gain our (that's most Americans') acceptance, each needs to show it can work within an inclusive framework, allowing for dissent, and engaging in open dialogue with those who have alternate views.
It would be sad irony for Israel to continue on this hardening road, for a system that stifles alternate expression, openly preaches racism and pursues an aggressive nationalist policy is the very definition of fascism.
It would be sad irony for Israel to continue on this hardening road, for a system that stifles alternate expression, openly preaches racism and pursues an aggressive nationalist policy is the very definition of fascism.
1
We are a long way from a situation in which public sentiment regarding Israel can have any effect on middle east policy as long as AIPAC can keep giving the top fifty congress people anywhere from $100k to $600K every two years. The US campaign donation system makes our politicians virtual marionettes for Israel or any other country, occasional personality conflicts aside.
The other source of Washington's support for Israel is Tel Aviv's role as a destabilizing agent in the middle east - an agenda contrary to just about everyone's interest aside from defense contractors who, for instance, worry that any Iran nuclear agreement might “impede what [military contractors] see as progress in foreign military sales", based on the "truism of the weapons trade: war — or the threat of war — is good for the arms business".
The two quotes are of corporate military sector luminaries at a industry conference speaking with an unusual level of candor about the intersection of US foreign policy and arms merchant's business strategy and profits - an intersection which we are to believe has no congruence, each operating absolutely independently, despite the intimate connections between the Pentagon, the congress and industry lobbyists, and the revolving door between the Pentagon and top-level positions in the military contractor sector.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/20/asked-iran-deal-potentiall...
The other source of Washington's support for Israel is Tel Aviv's role as a destabilizing agent in the middle east - an agenda contrary to just about everyone's interest aside from defense contractors who, for instance, worry that any Iran nuclear agreement might “impede what [military contractors] see as progress in foreign military sales", based on the "truism of the weapons trade: war — or the threat of war — is good for the arms business".
The two quotes are of corporate military sector luminaries at a industry conference speaking with an unusual level of candor about the intersection of US foreign policy and arms merchant's business strategy and profits - an intersection which we are to believe has no congruence, each operating absolutely independently, despite the intimate connections between the Pentagon, the congress and industry lobbyists, and the revolving door between the Pentagon and top-level positions in the military contractor sector.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/20/asked-iran-deal-potentiall...
That Elliot Abrams, Aaron David Miller and Dennis Ross, etc. were/are the arbiters of American policy in the ME is the fundamental reason why American policy has been so uneven and unjust to the Palestinians. The results are for all to see, with a sitting American President, Vice President and Secretary of State repeatedly insulted by the Israeli leadership.
These avowed Zionists cannot be neutral It is time to ascertain their loyalties to the American interests and not to Israeli interests.
It is time to seek that public officials renounce any dual citizenships that they may hold.
These avowed Zionists cannot be neutral It is time to ascertain their loyalties to the American interests and not to Israeli interests.
It is time to seek that public officials renounce any dual citizenships that they may hold.
1
Finally someone brings up Hispanic voters in this never-ending discussion of American support for Israel. As everyone points out in discussions of domestic elections, Hispanics have an ever growing share of the population and thus political power. Guess what? They look more like those Arabs voting in "droves" than they look like Benjamin Netanyahu.
Netanyahu simply stated unequivocally what has been obvious for years now: Israel wants permanent occupation, and nothing else.
Why do Israelis think we would indefinitely support this?
Ultimately this isn't about left-wing activists on college campuses. It's about basic decency. The arc of American history will bend toward basic decency, not permanent occupation.
Netanyahu simply stated unequivocally what has been obvious for years now: Israel wants permanent occupation, and nothing else.
Why do Israelis think we would indefinitely support this?
Ultimately this isn't about left-wing activists on college campuses. It's about basic decency. The arc of American history will bend toward basic decency, not permanent occupation.
1
The rupture has come so dramatically because Israeli Prime Minister is against a nuclear armed Iran. It should be his right to make the case on behalf of Israel. He should not be treated as the enemy. It is the political left that is making this a partisan issue. It is astonishing to see a US administration tearing down support for Israel. It's not good politics and the Democrats will suffer for it.
1
The central problem is that the American government does not see the benefit of unilaterally supporting Israel. Israel has and will continue to do whatever it needs to do (or feels it needs to do) regardless of what Americans feel.
For the last 40 years or longer - America has protected and strongly funded the state of Israel. Israel's fundamental weapon has been America - it's enemies knew that American force was always behind it.
The United States - up until recently - has viewed Israel as an asset. Increasingly Israel is viewed as a liability.
Netanyahu is doing what he needs to do for Israel. He showed that he does not care at all about Arabs or Palestinians - the only surprise was that he actually said this out loud.
He would prefer that Democrats support Israel but Netanyahu does not really care. What he and Israel need is America's money and support. If that comes from Republicans so be it.
For the last 40 years or longer - America has protected and strongly funded the state of Israel. Israel's fundamental weapon has been America - it's enemies knew that American force was always behind it.
The United States - up until recently - has viewed Israel as an asset. Increasingly Israel is viewed as a liability.
Netanyahu is doing what he needs to do for Israel. He showed that he does not care at all about Arabs or Palestinians - the only surprise was that he actually said this out loud.
He would prefer that Democrats support Israel but Netanyahu does not really care. What he and Israel need is America's money and support. If that comes from Republicans so be it.
1
Senators Feinstein, Schumer. Nelson, Boxer, Menendez, Heitkamp, Bennett, Peters, Casey, Cardin, Coons, Sanders, Manchin, Donnelly, Stabenow, will never, under any circumstances, allow Israel to be held accountable for its actions.
1
"Do the Democrats and Israel Have a Future Together?"
Not with THIS democrat they don't. I used to be a big supporter of Things Israel but not since they have turned from being victims to being VICTIMIZERS.
It is indeed to bad that Netanyahu has been re-elected. Is is easily going to down in Isreal's history as the worst leader they have had in their brief history as an independent state. If we go back far enough, we can blame the British for this, but for now, let's leave it to the voters there to eventually clean up their mess--pretty much like what we need to do here to clean up our mess between the GOP and Israel. War hawks all .
Not with THIS democrat they don't. I used to be a big supporter of Things Israel but not since they have turned from being victims to being VICTIMIZERS.
It is indeed to bad that Netanyahu has been re-elected. Is is easily going to down in Isreal's history as the worst leader they have had in their brief history as an independent state. If we go back far enough, we can blame the British for this, but for now, let's leave it to the voters there to eventually clean up their mess--pretty much like what we need to do here to clean up our mess between the GOP and Israel. War hawks all .
1
The alliance of Netanyahu's Likud with the GOP and American Evangelicals is a tragedy.
1
America would be infinitely better off if our government pumped 3 billion dollars in aid to our neighbor Mexico, yearly. There's no real proof that god loves Israel more than Mexico & since all this religion stuff is make-believe anyway why not believe that Heaven isn't in Missouri like Mitt Romney thinks but is actually outside of Mexico city....turn right at the Pemex gas station across from the Mexican Walmart, enter Heaven at Door #3....oh please...don't bother to thank me....
The problems between the Israeli terrorist group & the Palestinian terrorist group has been going on for almost 70 years. Their war started when 3rd parties including the US decided to take Palestinian land & give it to the Jewish people. What do you think would happen if I decided I should be given the Starbucks near my house? It's sacred grounds to me! Get it....grounds! ha
Anyway for nearly 70 years these 2 pig-headed terrorist groups have been slaughtering each other's children...been going on 7 years longer than I've been alive. Trust me...kill just one of my children and I'm out! But the uncivilized-non-adults populating Israel & the Gaza Strip will kill babies for another thousand years if the US continues to dump billions on the side of 1 terrorist group over the other. The US supports the underdog everywhere else!
Netanyahu is the John McCain-Lindsey Graham of Israel...always happy to lob missiles at human targets. Withhold the check, Obama...that will be the end of Bibi! YAY!
The problems between the Israeli terrorist group & the Palestinian terrorist group has been going on for almost 70 years. Their war started when 3rd parties including the US decided to take Palestinian land & give it to the Jewish people. What do you think would happen if I decided I should be given the Starbucks near my house? It's sacred grounds to me! Get it....grounds! ha
Anyway for nearly 70 years these 2 pig-headed terrorist groups have been slaughtering each other's children...been going on 7 years longer than I've been alive. Trust me...kill just one of my children and I'm out! But the uncivilized-non-adults populating Israel & the Gaza Strip will kill babies for another thousand years if the US continues to dump billions on the side of 1 terrorist group over the other. The US supports the underdog everywhere else!
Netanyahu is the John McCain-Lindsey Graham of Israel...always happy to lob missiles at human targets. Withhold the check, Obama...that will be the end of Bibi! YAY!
1
Netanyahu is a convenient whipping boy, but he is not really the issue. Replace him as Prime Minister with the most leftist Israeli dove you can find, and there still will be no prospect for peace. The Palestinians in Gaza are ruled by Hamas, and Abbas will not challenge Hamas. He tried that once and was driven from Gaza. Israel has no Palestinian partner for peace. Give the Palestinians a state in the West Bank, and Hamas's rockets will be that much closer to major Israeli cities.
I don't know why commenters here prefer to ignore those realities or why the Times devotes such disproportionate attention and space to articles and editorials critical of Israel, a small country that has relatively little influence on world affairs. But if the Democratic Party, or American progressives, really hate Israel that much, then it is time for people like me to rethink our loyalties. I have never voted Republican, but there's a first time for everything.
I don't know why commenters here prefer to ignore those realities or why the Times devotes such disproportionate attention and space to articles and editorials critical of Israel, a small country that has relatively little influence on world affairs. But if the Democratic Party, or American progressives, really hate Israel that much, then it is time for people like me to rethink our loyalties. I have never voted Republican, but there's a first time for everything.
1
The problem is that Israel unilaterally declared itself out of Palestinian land in 1948.
Someone born in Haifa who fled in fear in 1948, no longer has the right to be a Haifa citizen.
At the same time, the settlers keep increasing in the West Bank.
Someone born in Haifa who fled in fear in 1948, no longer has the right to be a Haifa citizen.
At the same time, the settlers keep increasing in the West Bank.
2
More to the point, if the Republican jingoists take us into yet another war, this time to the exclusive benefit of Isreal, will the Republican Party survive as a political entity? Possibly, as Americans don't seem to learn anything from history. Too bad history isn't a smart phone app! When we need fresh canon fodder for the next war, our body politic should stick with reservists. If they call up a draft, there will be riots in the streets of Washington that will make the DuPont Circle riot look like a harmless frat party.
2
As an Israeli, I find the results of the election very sad. Many Israelis gradually become detached from the state, feeling that there is no future here. The only chance that Israel wil thrive is that it will be a modern, progressive, advanced society. It doesn't seem to be going in this direction now.
onourselvesandothers.com
onourselvesandothers.com
1
I have more respect for an out-and-out racist like Avigdor Lieberman than an unprincipled coward like Netanyahu. He is an atrocious human being who belongs in the dock at The Hague (where he may yet end up) rather than as the leader of a once admirable society. I feel sorry for the decent people in Israel, a distinct and unfortunately decreasing minority.
2
Israel may need the US, but the US does not need Israel. When we all realize this our policies will not reflect rapture-republicans and AIPAC interests, but our own. Israel is by no means worse than its neighbors, but it should refrain from endless settlement building, etc. And we should never , ever , release their hero, the traitor, Jonathan Pollard.
3
Does anyone want a future with Israel? I sure won't miss them! They're like gum under my shoe, the sooner I get it off the better.
1
This issue goes beyond Benjamin Netanyahu, settlements, or a two-state solution.
This fundamental issue is that there are non-Jewish people who believe that Jewish integration, and not Zionism, should be the answer to the "Jewish Question." These people compose the liberal elite that dominate the Democratic Party and college campuses. They believe in "secular humanism," and that religion itself is an obstacle to their plans for society. These people have seized control of the democratic party, and they intend to impose their views on anyone. Ironically, their "tolerance" for others ends as soon as someone disagrees with them. It appears that many NY Times readers adhere to those beliefs as well.
As long as these people control the Democratic party, expect to see widening gaps between them and Jews, Christians, Muslims, and other people of faith.
This fundamental issue is that there are non-Jewish people who believe that Jewish integration, and not Zionism, should be the answer to the "Jewish Question." These people compose the liberal elite that dominate the Democratic Party and college campuses. They believe in "secular humanism," and that religion itself is an obstacle to their plans for society. These people have seized control of the democratic party, and they intend to impose their views on anyone. Ironically, their "tolerance" for others ends as soon as someone disagrees with them. It appears that many NY Times readers adhere to those beliefs as well.
As long as these people control the Democratic party, expect to see widening gaps between them and Jews, Christians, Muslims, and other people of faith.
First, any country that grants differential rights to its citizens based on ethnic or religious affiliation sounds alot like an apartheid regime, only this time in Israel it's based on Jewish supremacy. This fact, coupled with the rise in hate crimes and discrimination committed against Non-European Jews, Arabs, and Africans in Israel by teenagers, bus-drivers, and promoted by the Netanyahu coalition makes me think that Israel is not the democracy it claims to be. These sentiments and actions are not worthy of sympathy. In fact, they are worthy of international repudiation and warrant the withdrawal of US taxpayer support.
Second, anti-semitism and expressing anti-Israel sentiments are two different things. Actions and hate speech against individuals and groups is repugnant and should be condemned, always. But, expressing disapproval of Israel's policies and advocating for the withdrawal of US support is not antisemitic, it's what conscious citizens do. I do not want my taxpayer dollars going toward the defense of nondemocratic states that do not uphold international standards of human rights and the promise of equal treatment under the law for all it's citizens.
Third, wrongs have been committed by both sides. But two persistent wrongs don't make a right.
Maybe the absence of US support will force Israel to examine it's policies and make nice with its neighbors. Those in glass houses....
Second, anti-semitism and expressing anti-Israel sentiments are two different things. Actions and hate speech against individuals and groups is repugnant and should be condemned, always. But, expressing disapproval of Israel's policies and advocating for the withdrawal of US support is not antisemitic, it's what conscious citizens do. I do not want my taxpayer dollars going toward the defense of nondemocratic states that do not uphold international standards of human rights and the promise of equal treatment under the law for all it's citizens.
Third, wrongs have been committed by both sides. But two persistent wrongs don't make a right.
Maybe the absence of US support will force Israel to examine it's policies and make nice with its neighbors. Those in glass houses....
1
Supporting Israel and deeply caring about Israel's survival is quite different than supporting Netanyahu and his Likud party. Netanyahu points to ISIS and Arab Israelis as concerns. I ask, who are more likely to resist ISIS, West Bank Palestinians with their own Palestinian State to defend or Palestinians who see their land increasingly occupied by hostile Israeli settlers? The path to Israeli security lies in halting settlement development, not in trying to take over the West Bank the way China took Tibet from the Tibetan natives and Russia is taking Eastern Ukraine. The path to Israeli security also lies in treating its Arab citizens with respect and welcoming their voice in political discussions. I ask, which is more likely to see democracy grow in the Middle East, policies that would encourage Arab Israelis to value democracy or policies that Arab Israelis, the only Arabs living in a democratic state, see as just another form of closed minded government? By the way, I am not the only older Jewish American who still fervently believes in democracy, peace, and compromise.
1
Prime Minister Netanyahu burned his bridges with Democrats when he accepted House Speaker John Boehner's summons to Capitol Hill. Mr. Netanyahu cannot claim ignorance or innocence in this matter. He knew that by accepting the Speaker's invitation that he would embarrass President Obama. How can Mr. Netanyahu justify himself? By warning us about the Iranian nuclear capability and its potential to rearrange the landscape in the Middle East? He has gone a long way down the road toward estrangement between America and Israel. Fairly or not, the Israeli prime minister is now judged to be a useful tool of the Right in its usurpation of executive prerogative in the area of foreign affairs. What friend interferes in the private affairs of another, especially when asked not to do so? Mr. Netanyahu has, in the past few weeks, in miniature, duplicated the disrespect for the office of the president of the United States that is shown to him on a daily basis by Messrs. Boehner, McConnell, McCain, etc., Republicans all.
1
Curious way to frame the issue. Are you saying the problem is people questioning Israel not Israel acting questionably? Tell me again, why can't Palestinians have a state? Is it because some among them believe Jews should not have a state?
Didn't the original UN Resolution that provided for the creation of Israel also provide for the creation of a Palestinian State? Are so many Palestinians today so categorically opposed to the existence of Israel that they prefer not to have a Palestinian state?
Seems to me that it's to Israel's advantage to maintain Palestinian hostility. It's easily done, and that way Isreal doesn't have to be a partner or, really, to be responsible at all.
Didn't the original UN Resolution that provided for the creation of Israel also provide for the creation of a Palestinian State? Are so many Palestinians today so categorically opposed to the existence of Israel that they prefer not to have a Palestinian state?
Seems to me that it's to Israel's advantage to maintain Palestinian hostility. It's easily done, and that way Isreal doesn't have to be a partner or, really, to be responsible at all.
1
One reaps what one sows. One, Netanyahu is nurturing and perpetuating an environment where future Israelites will grow up with fear and hatred. What a way to live: knowing no peace. Two, Netanyahu has engendered more enmity not just toward Israel but also Jews all over the world, who are considered complicit by association. What a legacy!
As the standard bearer for democratic ideals and the right to liberty, the U.S. should be supporting the Palestinians’ right to liberty. Instead, we keep supporting Israel carte blanche. Netanyahu is perceived as a bully, and as we support this bully, we, too, are perceived as complicit by the rest of the world. How can we expect respect and goodwill from the Muslims at the negotiations table? I feel for Secretary Kerry.
The United Nations granted the Jews and Israel the right to statehood in 1948. Why does it not grant the Palestinians?
As the standard bearer for democratic ideals and the right to liberty, the U.S. should be supporting the Palestinians’ right to liberty. Instead, we keep supporting Israel carte blanche. Netanyahu is perceived as a bully, and as we support this bully, we, too, are perceived as complicit by the rest of the world. How can we expect respect and goodwill from the Muslims at the negotiations table? I feel for Secretary Kerry.
The United Nations granted the Jews and Israel the right to statehood in 1948. Why does it not grant the Palestinians?
2
It's not about love for Israel that motivates the Democrats but love for the money. They need a lot of them. As long as they flow, Netanyahu's lies will soon be forgotten. Why blame Bibi? He is not worse than other Israel's PMs. The unconditional support for Israel has allowed him, and other high ranking Israeli officials, to treat the US with contempt. As long as US dances to his tune, they will never respect us. Why would they?
2
Indeed. The hustler never respects his mark.
Sadly, a combination of the Israeli right (filled more and more with orthodox immigrants from the US and Russia, among other places), is taking advantage of the American religious right's deranged ideas. What Israel doesn't realize, or do realize but don't care as it is convenient to ignore it, is that the US right does not support Israel out of an ethical stance that sees Israel as a libel democracy (they would protect it even if it were a dictatorship). No, the US right has this fanatical biblical idea that for Christ to return the Jews must be in Israel at all costs... This absurd combination is destroying what was an originally progressive zionist Israel into a paranoid seudo-religious police state, one whose right wing politicians see conflict as its eternal condition. Beware Israel, the Israel I grew knowing, that bastion of democracy surrounded by islamic fundamentalist, those that support you in the US right are not interested in your progress and betterment, they are interested in the status quo: you are but a disposable pawn in what they see as "god's" plan.
3
Abrams is right - I'm not going to listen to him. What's new is that many lifelong democratic voters like me are not going to listen to Hilary Clinton either. Some of us do remember Ollie North and the Iran-Contra deal - which was negotiated by the Israelis. Hmmmm. And, say, what about that Non-Proliferation Treaty that Israel, an admitted nuclear power, refuses to sign? Are they against nuclear war or just against any nuclear war not started by Israel? The times, they are a changing. This is a tipping point. The majority of Israeli voters chose Netanyahu. Like him, then have shown their true selves. I do not want my taxpayer dollars going to them any more.
2
Why should the United States care about Israel at all? Why should Israel matter to the US more than, say, Haiti?
Perhaps Mr Netanyahu has done us all a favor by exposing how thoroughly a foreign state, supported by a well funded domestic lobbying group, can exert such influence over our domestic politics.
Americans should recognize that Israel has its own policies which do not necessarily accord with our own. Israel is not an American state, nor is it critical in any way to American domestic security or quality of life. Israel is no more to the United States than any other sovereign nation on the planet, actually less so than some.
Since Israelis elected Netanyahu despite his scorning of American foreign policy goals, then perhaps Israelis should resolve themselves to life without American intervention on their behalf.
In today's world of geo politics, it makes no sense for Israel to have the influence it does over American policies or governance.
Perhaps Mr Netanyahu has done us all a favor by exposing how thoroughly a foreign state, supported by a well funded domestic lobbying group, can exert such influence over our domestic politics.
Americans should recognize that Israel has its own policies which do not necessarily accord with our own. Israel is not an American state, nor is it critical in any way to American domestic security or quality of life. Israel is no more to the United States than any other sovereign nation on the planet, actually less so than some.
Since Israelis elected Netanyahu despite his scorning of American foreign policy goals, then perhaps Israelis should resolve themselves to life without American intervention on their behalf.
In today's world of geo politics, it makes no sense for Israel to have the influence it does over American policies or governance.
5
The "sense" it makes is to demonstrate the political ability for 1.7 percent of the US population to exert influence upon the USA vastly greater than their numbers. For more of the same, stand back and remain blind to it.
Netanyahu believes in having his foot on the throats of the Palestinians and determining everything about their existence. This of course is reprehensible to the entire world. I would love to see Israel thrive in the Middle East but only as a good neighbor and partner in the region. Voting in Netanyahu was a vote for acrimony and stalemate and unfortunately nothing good will come of it.
3
When I read articles like this, I feel pity for Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry. Although the US president is the most powerful person on this planet, he is reduced to a bystander by men like Mr. Boehner, Mr. Adelson, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer.
Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry are responsible for the safety of USA, Mr. Boehner, Mr. Adelson, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer are not. I would expect them to show some respect, but no; the infantile playground shows and antics go on and on.
Mr. Boehner, Mr. Adelson, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer should grow up and start behaving like the responsible adults the are supposed to be.
Mr. Obama and Mr. Kerry are responsible for the safety of USA, Mr. Boehner, Mr. Adelson, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer are not. I would expect them to show some respect, but no; the infantile playground shows and antics go on and on.
Mr. Boehner, Mr. Adelson, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer should grow up and start behaving like the responsible adults the are supposed to be.
3
What everyone seems to want to ignore is that Netanyahu won re-election by a significant majority, so he DOES represent Israel, just like the Republican majority here in the US. Therefore, Israel isn't the shining light of democracy and tolerance Mr. Dreamer would have us believe, but is hawkish, bigoted and expansionist, just like Netanyahu. Why then does Israel deserve unquestioned US loyalty and billions of US taxpayer dollars annually?
Israel is an artificial country created by the UN after the British grew tired of trying to suppress Jewish terrorist activities in Palestine. It no more deserves existence than a Palestinian state. So again why does Israel deserve US loyalty anymore than any other state?
Israel is an artificial country created by the UN after the British grew tired of trying to suppress Jewish terrorist activities in Palestine. It no more deserves existence than a Palestinian state. So again why does Israel deserve US loyalty anymore than any other state?
3
I would support any candidate who would cut off all military aid to Israel tomorrow. It does not deserve our aid.
5
Apartheid was sanctioned when South Africa was under minority rule. Yet the US enables Israel with $3.8 billion of aid annually. Discrimination of any kind should not be enabled in any case in my book. Maybe if Israel was faced with less aid, a two state solution would would be sought.
2
I would not vote for or support a right wing government in America and I will not support the same in Israel. I have supported Israel most of the time for many years, but I think it is essential that U.S. politicians, especially the GOP, chose whose interests they serve. The interests of America or the interests of Israel.
3
Too bad that Benjamin Netanyahu didn't give a speech to Congress on his campaign view that he intends to prevent a Palestinian state, or his racialist dog whistle for Israeli Jews to vote against the 20 percent of anti-Likud Arab Israeli voters. The cheers would have been revealing. But his speech also would have required a level of candor that his rabble rousing speech on Iran lacked. It would have required courage, too, rather than inflammatory rhetoric. The future threat to Israel from the Palestinians is greater than even a nuclear armed Iran, given Iran's fear of international retaliation for any link to a nuclear attack on Israel. So the Palestinians in the Diaspora represent the greatest threat to Israel. The best educated of the Arabs living in the West, they are Arabs with the most political influence in Western countries (in Michigan they shut down Sen. John McCain's Presidential campaign against Obama there in 2007-8), and among the most affluent of Arabs living in the West. Their conflict with Israel permanently transcends borders, frustrating Israeli defenses and responses. As the international conflict festers, it results in unpredictable outbursts of violence across the globe wherever pro-Israeli Jews and pro-Palestinians live. This is no longer an Israeli-Palestinian problem. It is the world's.
1
The basic facts of the situation are clear: Israel remains the only state in the Middle East that participates in the Western democratic tradition. Israelis live in a very bad neighborhood. They are surrounded by failed and dysfunctional states where social pathologies run rampant. It's only about 300 miles as the crow flies from Ben Gurion Airport to Aleppo International Airport - in the ISIS-controlled part of Syria. That's a day trip by car from a civilized city to the current capital of barbarity in the world. It's not a situation where Israelis can afford to drop their guard for even a moment. OTOH, making alliances with the crackpot fundamentalist right-wing of the US political spectrum is an serious mistake. The Republican party right-wing is populated by people who have detached from reality. They believe the apocalyptic nonsense that appears in the back of the New Testament bible. Their affinity with Israel has nothing to do with sympathy for Israelis or the Israeli state. It is driven, in reality, by a feverish religious obsession. They just want to be positioned on the right side of their expected apocalypse. In that respect they have more in common with ISIS than with Israel. If I had one wish that could be granted, it would be that the Israeli state realized how very, very dangerous it is to form an alliance with the American religious fanatics. It is an expedient but deeply incorrect choice.
2
Do you Americans who support Obama not realise how weakened your influence in the world has become. This is not about Israel it is about the lack of trust that your allies have in you thanks to the treachery that has meted out to them. As for Israel, it is a staunch ally whose people identify with you. They like you. They do not kill you. They do not burn your flags. They are a democracy fighting for their survival. Don't treat your enemies who are trying to destroy you, better than your friends. Saudi Arabia and Egypt understand the reality better than your administration. They have welcomed Netanyahu 's electoral victory as being in line with their strategic interests.
1
Why should Democrats support a thuggish nation and a thuggish Netanyahu? Right wing aggression is inexcusable, destabilizing and dangerous no matter whether it comes from the conservative lunatics in our own government or in Israel's.
The fact is, Israel would not even exist without the hundreds of billions of dollars of US taxpayer money. They are, essentially, a welfare state. When the prime minister goes to Congress and spits in the face of my president, I am not inclined to favor them with more of my hard earned cash. It may be true that there are more obnoxious governments in the middle east, but that does not excuse Israel stomping on the hand that feeds it. When they do, they may find that hand turning into a fist.
The fact is, Israel would not even exist without the hundreds of billions of dollars of US taxpayer money. They are, essentially, a welfare state. When the prime minister goes to Congress and spits in the face of my president, I am not inclined to favor them with more of my hard earned cash. It may be true that there are more obnoxious governments in the middle east, but that does not excuse Israel stomping on the hand that feeds it. When they do, they may find that hand turning into a fist.
4
Yes! I totally agree. Finally someone is saying what everyone should understand: Israel, under Netanyahu, is no friend of America.
The Middle East has and will always be a thorny issue due to the religious component. Each group in the region believes the land is promised to them by God. The hard liners on each side see comprise as a dirty word. Once Israel and Palestine makes peace with each other the dynamic radically changes in the region. Hamas and Hezbollah will continue to have a steady stream of young fighters from the Gaza strip as long they feel they are disenfranchised. Bibi has a chance to be statesman to help broker peace in the region. Or he can be a mere politician and hold onto power by demonizing the Palestinians in his backyard.
1
Looking at a map of the region one can see where the settlements are and where the fence or wall is in relationship to Jordan. I imagine Jordan would be forced to enter the fracas with its military if Bibi gets close to realizing his stated goal of an Israel stretching to the Jordan river and the Dead Sea. He is occupying Jordanian soil now and very near this goal with the placement of the settlements. Jordan has been patient so far, probably with some pressure from the US, and has its hands full with refugees from Syria and Iraq. It also wants a Palestinian state; I don't see a happy outcome for Israel in pushing for more territory and more settlements. Doing so would force the unhappy alignment of Hamas with Jordan and certainly engulf the whole region in war. Negotiations would be the only possibility and unlikely to provide peace. I can see WWIII just over the horizon.
Jordan and its King Abdullah Hussein have always been staunch US allies. Jordan has accepted 1.4 million refugees from Syria. Israel has accepted none. Which of these two nations is the more humane and more worthy of US aid?
Based on the comments from Democrats and liberals in the very anti-Israel New York Times, it appears that they are ready to jettison American support for Israel in favor of the Palestinians, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood and the radical Islamic mullahs who control Iran. Obama is all too ready to abandon Israel in favor of a treaty with Iran that he has not vetted to Congress or the American people. Should the Palestinians and Iran get what they want, Hamas (which refuses to recognize Israel as having a right to exist) will be able to import weapons without encumbrance. Based on history and their own rhetoric, does any sane person believe that Hamas will not use those weapons to escalate terrorism and aggression towards Israel? This tiny nation is the only stopgap against radical Islam in the Middle East. Think about the consequences of your demands before you make them. Do you want suitcase nukes supplied by Iran in the hands of Hamas in an independent Palestine? It will be so in 10 years if Obama and those who favor an independent Palestine and a treaty with Iran become reality.
3
"This tiny nation is the only stopgap against radical Islam in the Middle East."
In reality, it is the original irritant to Islam ME. Back in 1948 before we began sukpporting the UN-created Israel and the confiscation of Muslim lands, we had no Muslim enemies. Now--look around. Thanks a bunch, UN.
In reality, it is the original irritant to Islam ME. Back in 1948 before we began sukpporting the UN-created Israel and the confiscation of Muslim lands, we had no Muslim enemies. Now--look around. Thanks a bunch, UN.
Israel has lost this Democratic voter's support. Let me tell you why - as abhorrent as the Republicans relentless drive to de-humanize Barack Obama and de-legitimize him as president has been, the damage has been done through the media and the Republican intransigence in congress.
With the latest ploys by Cotton and Boehner (Netanyahu's speech and the Letter of the 47) pushed by Israel supporters, these efforts have escalated into the international arena.
This is unacceptable to me. Let's spend our tax dollars on our own country.
With the latest ploys by Cotton and Boehner (Netanyahu's speech and the Letter of the 47) pushed by Israel supporters, these efforts have escalated into the international arena.
This is unacceptable to me. Let's spend our tax dollars on our own country.
2
The Democrats show little courage on any topic, but real question is about how any American can support what Israel is doing. Mr. Netanyahu's obnoxious behavior over the last couple of weeks is really nothing new. His flip flop on the two state solution is as comical as it is sad. Where once some Palestinians had everything to gain by continuing the conflict, it having been a money maker, obviously, it is now the same for Israel in the sense that they win by just continuing the conflict. They don't want peace, two state or one state. Everybody knows this but everyone acts as if peace is a possibility. It's not. One would have thought that "WE" would have put our foot down on the settlements long ago, for example, but we didn't and still haven't. Why we should be supporting the aggressor and an apartheid type government is anyone's guess, but even when it is so obviously wrong, you wonder what it will take for the Democrats to show up and begin to do the right thing, which is essentially to support a UN resolution recognizing Palestine as a state and imposing a two state peace agreement. Instead, the Democrats are absorbing, and deservedly so, the push back in the wake of Israel's fall from grace and credibility. The Republicans, though, are inheriting the cash, it seems. The bottom line here is that people are not listening closely enough to what is being said by Israel. The call for a Jewish state should have made people worry, for example.
1
Whether one is Republican or Democrat why would anyone support any leader of any nation like Netanyahu or Putin who exhibit territorial aggression. I find no reason to support Hamas so why would I support Netanyahu's land grab in the West Bank.
At 65, I remember the days of "Plucky little Israel," and the 6 Day War. (The latter fell during my last week in high school and scared the dickens out of me; I feared WWIII.) As a non-jew and very liberal, I admired and supported Israel until about 15 years ago, when I was simply worn down by Israel's treatment of the Palestinians; its last fig leaf of decency fluttered to the ground. With the resurgence in repression of women in the ultra-orthodox community, Israel has completely lost my support and regard. Netanyahu acts like a thug, much like some of the Palestinians. While it's hard to find good guys on any side of this conflict - plenty of blame to go around - I don't see how supporting Israel is in our national interest. We'd be wiser to spend that support money on education and development efforts among the Palestinians.
Democrats would support the Israeli policies with the Republicans as they like the Republicans need the money for their re-election process and the money comes when they support Israel.
Democrats like Republicans have a future together as it is the single issue that there is bipartisan support because both gets a lot of money from this lobby. I wonder if this lobby is the largest special interest funder in History of this Republic.
Yes some support is eroding in the general public especially in the Black Caucuses as they are looking as if it is a repeat of what had happened in our history down South. The picture coming out of Israel shows a lot of white folks and not many locals the Sephardic Jews and of African descent in any kinds of numbers. I hope this is not a race supremacist policy that Israel is following.
It was the “Coming Out” of the plans that Ariel Sharon and his predecessors had culminating last week with Netanyahu’s statement.
What Israelis do in their own country is their business we can only talk about what our Congress is doing and how it impacts us. We and our leadership has to make some difficult choices, how far are we going to support the inhumane treatment of Palestinians and there is a lot written by columnist of this paper on this subject. As the Two State solution is no longer practical based on ground realities, how do we work towards a democratic inclusive Israel on all of the land between Jordan, Israel, and Syria to Egypt?
Democrats like Republicans have a future together as it is the single issue that there is bipartisan support because both gets a lot of money from this lobby. I wonder if this lobby is the largest special interest funder in History of this Republic.
Yes some support is eroding in the general public especially in the Black Caucuses as they are looking as if it is a repeat of what had happened in our history down South. The picture coming out of Israel shows a lot of white folks and not many locals the Sephardic Jews and of African descent in any kinds of numbers. I hope this is not a race supremacist policy that Israel is following.
It was the “Coming Out” of the plans that Ariel Sharon and his predecessors had culminating last week with Netanyahu’s statement.
What Israelis do in their own country is their business we can only talk about what our Congress is doing and how it impacts us. We and our leadership has to make some difficult choices, how far are we going to support the inhumane treatment of Palestinians and there is a lot written by columnist of this paper on this subject. As the Two State solution is no longer practical based on ground realities, how do we work towards a democratic inclusive Israel on all of the land between Jordan, Israel, and Syria to Egypt?
1
I'm in the no-big-deal school of thought here about Benjamin Netanyahu's vote-pandering antics prior to his 4th term election. He correctly read the Israeli electorate even when recent voter polls did not, then, like any good politician, did what he had to do to stay in power, which was his sole objective anyway. After the election, by walking back his statement about no two-state solution being possible under his watch, he has only made obvious what his detractors have said about him for years, which is that he is dishonest and unscrupulous.
As this election and its turnout fade into history, everyone will assume their former political positions regarding Israel, the Palestinians, and how to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions. Why? Because there are no options to do anything else. The Obama administration's position is the closest thing which passes for liberal honesty in America, and it will continue to butt heads with Netanyahu and his staunch allies among conservative Jews, evangelical Christians, and Republican war hawks.
Is this brouhaha a big problem for Hillary Clinton? No. She is a bit more hawkish than Obama, and can use it to distance herself from him and reset the American-Israel relationship by making nice with Netanyahu and the Israeli right. But what she does will make very little difference in the long run. Israel has never had any intentions of accommodating the Palestinians, the Iranians, or the Arabs in the Middle East. It's all just talk and lies.
1
Netanyahu did what he had to in order to win the election. Predictably, now in a strong position in Israel, he is now backtracking on positions unpopular among many Americans (and also many Israelis). And so the problem of the moment is not Netanyahu, but where American Jews can find a political home when the sitting Democratic President opposes Israel. Contribute to the Republicans? Unhappily, yes, if they show strong support for Israel, despite the repugnant far right. Before deciding whom to support and what to think of Netanyahu and any "official" Israeli position, Americans would do well to study strategy as explained by Bismarck and von Clausewitz. They would have appreciated Netanyahu's position, but not Obama's, I think.
"The protesters might have represented the left-wing fringe, but their criticism, and hostility to Israel, is gaining steam in the mainstream of the Democratic Party..."
Edit that, eliminate "of the Democratic Party", and the phrase becomes more accurate. The hostility to Israeli extremism undoubtedly cuts across party lines, and especially affects the coveted "independent" voters who are actually the ones to decide elections.
American support for Israel is analogous to an ancient glacier. The Israeli citizens, in full support of Bibi, have caused a huge chunk to drop off, hastening the meltdown.
Edit that, eliminate "of the Democratic Party", and the phrase becomes more accurate. The hostility to Israeli extremism undoubtedly cuts across party lines, and especially affects the coveted "independent" voters who are actually the ones to decide elections.
American support for Israel is analogous to an ancient glacier. The Israeli citizens, in full support of Bibi, have caused a huge chunk to drop off, hastening the meltdown.
Israel has lost its way. The government is arrogant and not trustworthy. They have not paid any price for their arrogance. It's time for the United States to join the United Nations and force the Israeli government to accept a two-state solution. I'm not anti-Israel, far from it. The United States has enabled their bad behavior and its high time that we get out the way and help enforce a fair and equitable solution for that region. We owe it the world to do the right thing.
The article could have mentioned that "Christians United" for Israel doesn't really unite Catholics into the mix. Hagee described it as a "Godless theology of hate", prompting John McCain to deny Hagee's support.
I found it an odd point that the protesters were described as a "left wing" fringe. Since when is criticism of Israel related to what the wikipedia defines as "Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality."
I don't see it. I think this issue needs other words than left- and right-wing.
I found it an odd point that the protesters were described as a "left wing" fringe. Since when is criticism of Israel related to what the wikipedia defines as "Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality."
I don't see it. I think this issue needs other words than left- and right-wing.
It is very distressingto realize when people , young and old, who never hd to fight for their country´s survival, and have never had youngsters kidnaped, tortured and killed by Hamas terrorists, people studying in synagogue killed by Muslims terrorist in Jerusalem, criticize Israeli government for not compromising with Hamas and PA. Because Palestinians do not accept the existence of Israel as a State, nor the Arab countries the have always tried to destroy Israel, how can Israel accept the the existence of a Palestinian State ? Obama´s government fails in acknowledging the real danger, the so called ISIS, that is beheading Muslims, Christians, and so on. This is the real danger, to the whole world. However, I don`t see Americans protesting against ISIS, just against Israel.
1
If American foreign policy is based on values and morality then we have no business supporting the current government in Israel. Pushed into a corner and fearing an election defeat Netanyahu spoke the truth... " I am opposed to a two state solution and it will never happen as log as I am in office." So, why continue the foolishness of negotiations. Israel has an absolute position diametrically opposed to US policy. Now it's time to support Palestinian statehood at the UN not just to "get even" with Netanyahu but as a fundamental right for the Palestinians.
If anyone thinks there is less support for blindly following Israel's lead among Democratic Party lawmakers clearly has not been paying attention.
Case in point, how there any paradigm when no Democratic Party lawmaker has the courage to call for reducing or cutting off economic and military support to Israel?
Of how is it a paradigm shift when an overwhelming majority of Democratic Party lawmakers attended a speech to congress by Benjamin Netanyahu and widely cheered Netanyahu's call to oppose any arms' deal with Iran?
If that is not enough of an example, how is it considered a paradigm shift when the majority of U.S. Senators with a (D) after their name opposed our president's effort to work out a deal with Iran to put a halt to their nuclear weapon's program?
Until we wake-up and realize they only real paradigm shift that will happen in Washington is to stop voting for elected represents that care more about the interests of an influential foreign power than that of our nation, nothing will really change.
Case in point, how there any paradigm when no Democratic Party lawmaker has the courage to call for reducing or cutting off economic and military support to Israel?
Of how is it a paradigm shift when an overwhelming majority of Democratic Party lawmakers attended a speech to congress by Benjamin Netanyahu and widely cheered Netanyahu's call to oppose any arms' deal with Iran?
If that is not enough of an example, how is it considered a paradigm shift when the majority of U.S. Senators with a (D) after their name opposed our president's effort to work out a deal with Iran to put a halt to their nuclear weapon's program?
Until we wake-up and realize they only real paradigm shift that will happen in Washington is to stop voting for elected represents that care more about the interests of an influential foreign power than that of our nation, nothing will really change.
The Jewish vote in the US is determined one at a time: if you value your US citizenship highest then you vote Democratic because that is the party that generally serves the broadest segments of the US population of which you consider yourself a primary member.
On the other hand, if you identify as a kind of wandering Jew who is here as a temporary visitor then you vote Republican, support the war stance opposing all things antithetical to Israel and by coincidence support the Evangelical Christian belief that Israel's existence is a necessary for the return of Jesus and the End of Times.
Ironically, of course, a similar end of times apocalyptic vision is held by ISIS. So, all the war belief from the conservatives of all three religions represented in the Middle East has everything to do with systems that have abandoned any notion of caring for people in the here and now through the hard work of compromise with others.
Instead, they are in favor of some imaginary, hoped for, longed for conflagration out of which the Hand of God (for each specific religion) provides . . . TA-DAH . . .salvation. Delusional all and yet even those who don't subscribe to this script will pay for their madness, and in the ME they are already paying for such thinking. When all you yearn for is likely to occur simultaneous with your death, chances are you are not going to live long enough to enjoy whatever it is. The venal stupidity of men knows no bounds: "Winners" all.
On the other hand, if you identify as a kind of wandering Jew who is here as a temporary visitor then you vote Republican, support the war stance opposing all things antithetical to Israel and by coincidence support the Evangelical Christian belief that Israel's existence is a necessary for the return of Jesus and the End of Times.
Ironically, of course, a similar end of times apocalyptic vision is held by ISIS. So, all the war belief from the conservatives of all three religions represented in the Middle East has everything to do with systems that have abandoned any notion of caring for people in the here and now through the hard work of compromise with others.
Instead, they are in favor of some imaginary, hoped for, longed for conflagration out of which the Hand of God (for each specific religion) provides . . . TA-DAH . . .salvation. Delusional all and yet even those who don't subscribe to this script will pay for their madness, and in the ME they are already paying for such thinking. When all you yearn for is likely to occur simultaneous with your death, chances are you are not going to live long enough to enjoy whatever it is. The venal stupidity of men knows no bounds: "Winners" all.
Israel's support in the United States has been built on two things and only two things.
First, the thousands of GI's who saw the results first hand what the NAZI's did to the Jews in Europe and communicated what they saw when they got back home to their wives, friends, and children.
Second, the thousands of Jewish families in the United States that found after 1945 that their entire European wings of their family trees were lost for good.
Now that we are 70 years away from 1945 and the living memory of those two things are receding every day, Israel will become "just another place" on the geo-political map for most Americans.
Since that is a demographic reality, the death of that generation, US support for Israel will continue to slip and in the not too distant future the USA will not do much to help them.
I would predict that within one generation, 20 years, that funding will be cut for Israel and support for backing them up in a war will also slide in a large way.
Sure, there will be a small and loud group supporting Israel and a small and loud group condemning their land aspirations. But in the end the great mass of Americans will just not give a hoot.
First, the thousands of GI's who saw the results first hand what the NAZI's did to the Jews in Europe and communicated what they saw when they got back home to their wives, friends, and children.
Second, the thousands of Jewish families in the United States that found after 1945 that their entire European wings of their family trees were lost for good.
Now that we are 70 years away from 1945 and the living memory of those two things are receding every day, Israel will become "just another place" on the geo-political map for most Americans.
Since that is a demographic reality, the death of that generation, US support for Israel will continue to slip and in the not too distant future the USA will not do much to help them.
I would predict that within one generation, 20 years, that funding will be cut for Israel and support for backing them up in a war will also slide in a large way.
Sure, there will be a small and loud group supporting Israel and a small and loud group condemning their land aspirations. But in the end the great mass of Americans will just not give a hoot.
The Republidans, following a Rove playbook, have been happy enough to try to either undermine Democratic-leaning groups (unions) or seek to weaken the bonds between such groups (American Jews) and the Democratic Party, but for Netanyahu to join in seeking to undermined the Democratic Party is not only unprecedented, but also, unbelievably short-sighted. If he manages to achieve what he seems to want, support for Israel outside Israel will dwindle to an aging base of right-singers in one country.
As Netanyahu and the Israeli right pursue the cheapening of their country's legacy for the sake of material and political gain, of course the Republicans in the U.S. would be their natural allies. Democrats have honest principles that make them recoil from an Israel that seems to be more and more committed to becoming an apartheid society. Furthermore, Republicans are more than happy to use Israel as their newest wedge issue.
The odiousness of conservative politics is the manifestation of selfishness and greed, so if Israeli voters choose that path as many American conservatives have done, others will have to pay. One of the ways that the U.S. pays for Israel's intransigence is being one of the world's top targets of terrorism. We have borne this price for being Israel's staunch ally for decades. But if Israel, through its embrace of the arrogant politics of Likud, has permanently abandoned any sincere concern for social justice, I would argue that it's time for the U.S. to scale back our overly generous and unquestioning support. If Israel wants to become an apartheid society that bullies and steals from their neighbors, then let them them pursue that warped vision on their own.
The odiousness of conservative politics is the manifestation of selfishness and greed, so if Israeli voters choose that path as many American conservatives have done, others will have to pay. One of the ways that the U.S. pays for Israel's intransigence is being one of the world's top targets of terrorism. We have borne this price for being Israel's staunch ally for decades. But if Israel, through its embrace of the arrogant politics of Likud, has permanently abandoned any sincere concern for social justice, I would argue that it's time for the U.S. to scale back our overly generous and unquestioning support. If Israel wants to become an apartheid society that bullies and steals from their neighbors, then let them them pursue that warped vision on their own.
As a Democrat, I was highly offended by the Republicans' invitation to Netanyahu and his subsequent speech. It was incredibly disrespectful to the President and it turned me from someone who hadn't given much thought to him or Israel's politics into someone quite angry at both him and the Republicans. I was very disappointed when he won reelection. That whole Republican/Netanyahu stunt made me furious. I can't be the only one. It is our government's primary job to take care of this country, not to be manipulated by the leaders of foreign countries possibly against our own best interests..
Rock and a hard place. Is there a third political party out there that understands what Israel is up against and at the same time takes a liberal stance on domestic issues? Otherwise, I may very well fell the need to sit the next election out after having made it clear to the Democratic party why I am doing so.
3
Of course the Democrat's and Israel have a future, it will just be a very different one. Israel will have to take responsibility for its actions and face the consequences (lucky for them this will never be as brutal as that suffered by the Palestinians) - no more free passes, UN Veto's and US backing when Israel violates laws and treaties and commits atrocities.
I sincerely hope that Israeli's and Palestinians can work towards a better future for their children, instead of being stymied all the time by their elected officials and outside influence whose only agenda is decidedly self-serving.
But Elliot, Dermer - with friends like this who needs enemies - rogues, mavericks with no respect for Government, Laws or Human Rights. Not the best advertisement for rapprochement or an even-handed, honest conversation.
Eliot Abrahms - convicted criminal, notorious for his dismissal and denial of US backed atrocities in Nicaragua, El Salvador. Deeply involved in the Iran-Contra Affair that secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran during an arms embargo and apparently he also gave nod to the Venezuelan coup,
Dermer who says the IDF should get the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting with unimaginable restraint when charges of war crimes were sounded. Key to getting Netanyahu here for the Republican cause and even accusing the United Nations and human rights groups of aiding Hamas in its war against Israel.
I sincerely hope that Israeli's and Palestinians can work towards a better future for their children, instead of being stymied all the time by their elected officials and outside influence whose only agenda is decidedly self-serving.
But Elliot, Dermer - with friends like this who needs enemies - rogues, mavericks with no respect for Government, Laws or Human Rights. Not the best advertisement for rapprochement or an even-handed, honest conversation.
Eliot Abrahms - convicted criminal, notorious for his dismissal and denial of US backed atrocities in Nicaragua, El Salvador. Deeply involved in the Iran-Contra Affair that secretly facilitated the sale of arms to Iran during an arms embargo and apparently he also gave nod to the Venezuelan coup,
Dermer who says the IDF should get the Nobel Peace Prize for fighting with unimaginable restraint when charges of war crimes were sounded. Key to getting Netanyahu here for the Republican cause and even accusing the United Nations and human rights groups of aiding Hamas in its war against Israel.
1
The answer is NO. Democrats and Israel do not have a future together. Nor does Israel any longer have a future with most of the western world. republicans in congress (not republicans in general) and Bibi have only one interest, and that is starting an unprovoked war with Iran. The powers that control Bibi and the powers that control the republican party are the same and their goal is to decrease the surplus population that doesn't fall neatly into a usable way to make them richer.
1
The disparity between Israel's words and actions are becoming more and more evident every day. Like water, facts have a way of sipping through and now going viral. Gone are the days of corporate media managing the right message and it is a losing battle for the military industrial complexes in US and Israel.
2
Democrats always have a chance to have ties to Israel, but not while Obama is in the White House. He runs his international relation approach in a very limited way. He focuses on leaders not nations. It blinds him. He focuses on Netanyahu without understanding it was the Israeli people that elected him, allowing him to trounce the other party. Excuses for that are that Bibi's partys supporters would have staid home except for some comment by his adversary. He focuses on Putin refusing to deal with the poles and reports that Putin's popularity has risen with the Russian people while anti-american opinions are higher than they have been in decades. In Egypt he backs Morsi. He refused to listen to the million in the street protesting failed economic programs and his repressive actions including religions that didn't fit Morsi's mold. The army steps in, El Sisi is elected, and Obama turns his back on him and the Egyptian. In Iraq Obama works to force out Maliki, while missing the power of ISIS who he dismisses as a JV team. He wanted Kadafi out leading to Begazi and the growing power of Jihadists there as well as ISIS. In all of this the Democrats follow their leader. Pelosi is close to tears after Netanyahu';s speech. Some boycott the speech. The democrates will need a candidate who understands that running international relations as a personal like or dislike program is not our best path. If they find one, relations with Israel will improve.
I, naively, assured people that Netenyahu, would of course reject the invitation to speak to Congress. It would so obviously damage the bi-partisan support for Israel that I thought it was a no-brainer. The no-brainer assessment was correct but nothing else was. If Democratic support for Israel is at a low-ebb and going lower, it's actions like these that have caused it.
1
Israel fears a West Bank state resembling Gaza, supplied by Iran and ISIS with rockets to hurl down on Israeli cities. Those who fail to see Israel as the underdog need to pull back and view the full scale of the conflict -- tiny Israel vs. the vast Islamic world that surrounds Israel and wishes it dead. Israel doesn't have the power to do anything but survive. The power to make peace is entirely with the Arab and Persian nations. Settlement of Israel's Palestinian conflict can only come with that broader peace.
4
"The protesters might have represented the left-wing fringe, but their criticism, and hostility to Israel, is gaining steam in the mainstream of the Democratic Party — in large part because Dermer and his boss seem to have aligned themselves with Obama’s Republican enemies."
The Obama administration actually maintains a level of support for Israel that frustrates "mainstream" Democratic voters like myself. I have written to the White House a number of times to urge President Obama to condition American support for Israel on curtailment of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and a believable demonstration of Israel's good faith in negotiating a two-state solution. The frustration with Israel in the Democratic electorate has had very little effect on US policy so far. The US government still provides three billion dollars of support to Israel and consistently backs Israel's interests at the UN despite Netanyahu's apparent readiness to lead us to war. And the Obama administration only says it "might" reverse its position at the UN on Palestinian sovereignty. The Obama administration is just catching up to the alienation of Democratic voters that has been engendered by the aggressive, anti-democratic policies of the Israeli government over many years. The insult to President Obama is only the final straw.
The Obama administration actually maintains a level of support for Israel that frustrates "mainstream" Democratic voters like myself. I have written to the White House a number of times to urge President Obama to condition American support for Israel on curtailment of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and a believable demonstration of Israel's good faith in negotiating a two-state solution. The frustration with Israel in the Democratic electorate has had very little effect on US policy so far. The US government still provides three billion dollars of support to Israel and consistently backs Israel's interests at the UN despite Netanyahu's apparent readiness to lead us to war. And the Obama administration only says it "might" reverse its position at the UN on Palestinian sovereignty. The Obama administration is just catching up to the alienation of Democratic voters that has been engendered by the aggressive, anti-democratic policies of the Israeli government over many years. The insult to President Obama is only the final straw.
1
I find this piece totally bizarre. Although the subject is about fading support for Israel within the Democratic Party, Jason Horowitz chose to devote much of the piece to commentary by two far right wing, warmongers--Elliot Abrams, a convicted criminal (lying to Congress about Iran-Contra) and a diehard neocon and Ron Dermer, Israeli ambassador to the United States and a Republican/Likud tool who facilitated Benjamin Netanyahu's outrageous speech to Congress. Horowitz also gave considerable attention to a meeting of rabidly pro-Likud Christian evangelicals. In contrast, there is almost no commentary from Democrats or progressives, although the subject at hand involves them directly.
It is becoming increasingly evident from this and other articles that the Times is "fair and balanced" in much the same way that FOX News is, although they are more subtle about hiding their true agenda.
BTW, in response the Abrams claim that younger Jews will become increasingly supportive of Israel as they grow older, I can only say the I am now 69 and have moved in the exact opposite direction, as have a number of my Jewish friends. So don't count on it, Elliot.
It is becoming increasingly evident from this and other articles that the Times is "fair and balanced" in much the same way that FOX News is, although they are more subtle about hiding their true agenda.
BTW, in response the Abrams claim that younger Jews will become increasingly supportive of Israel as they grow older, I can only say the I am now 69 and have moved in the exact opposite direction, as have a number of my Jewish friends. So don't count on it, Elliot.
4
It seems that the latest talking point Israel's water carriers have for western progressives is, "Netanyahu is not Israel." Technically correct but disingenuous. Imagine, "Botha is not South Africa," in 1985.
If Israel isn't worried about losing liberal Democratic Jews, they've got another thing coming. There is a massive mobilization of liberal Jews who are furious, enraged, carrying a banner that says, "Not in our name." We are deeply ashamed to be remotely associated with Netanyahu's apartheid version of Israel, and were torn apart by the war in Gaza last summer. I am 43, by the way, and in our movement, there are people of all ages. It's definitely not just the Millennial Jews, please trust me. We'll do whatever it takes to help our Israeli brothers and sisters to find a center of justice and integrity once again. Until that happens, we do not support the country. Watching Israel suffer more years under the thumb of a Bush/Cheney-like regime, we are saddened, but motivated to move toward a 2-state solution. If it takes divestment and boycotts, so be it.
1
I'm 56 years old, Jewish and raised to support Israel as the "underdog". Netanyahu's recent remarks reminded me of a polarizing figure from my childhood -- George Wallace, standing in the courthouse door, shouting "Segregation forever". Treatment of any group as second class citizens with only limited rights was hateful then; and it is hateful now. Of course I am turning more and more against Israel. To do otherwise would be to go against the values I was taught to believe in, and still do believe in.
1
Democracy is the worst system there is, except for all the other systems. Like it or not, Netanyahu is the freely-elected leader of a democratic country. As is Obama. Deal with it.
2
To the few supporters of Bibi among the commenters - Yes we all understand the existential fear among Israelis about their future. But how in the world is that an excuse or justification to systematically hold millions of people without basic human rights for decades? Its a dynamic world - the more militant, pro-colonial actions the Israeli government takes, the more the world will turn against it.
Netanyahu is not Israel. It is now more important than ever that Israel and the reasonable and pro-peace Jews within it (and perhaps more importantly - those in the US), need to definitively tell Bibi to stop marching Israel into its Apartheid future.
Netanyahu is not Israel. It is now more important than ever that Israel and the reasonable and pro-peace Jews within it (and perhaps more importantly - those in the US), need to definitively tell Bibi to stop marching Israel into its Apartheid future.
1
Ron Dermer (who should be kicked out of this country) should know better than anyone that all politics are now. All politics are local. The now is that Netanyahu has been re-elected. The local is that he came over here as a representative of the Republicans' 51st state and humiliated our President and flaunted our rules of protocol.
I'm a liberal woman who follows politics closer than most. I wasn't aware that a woman had been chief justice of Israel's Supreme Court and that they hosted gay-pride parades. What I am aware of is that Benjamin Netanyahu is on the side of the war hawks, who already bankrupted our country with the longest and stupidest war in our history, partially on his bidding, and he is helping them egg on another. This one probably won't be as long as it could conceivably end the planet as we know it.
How do you trust someone who says something on Monday -- no Palestinian state -- and takes it back on Thursday? That isn't flip-flopping. That isn't "walking it back." Either he was lying on Monday or he was lying on Thursday.
I'm a liberal woman who follows politics closer than most. I wasn't aware that a woman had been chief justice of Israel's Supreme Court and that they hosted gay-pride parades. What I am aware of is that Benjamin Netanyahu is on the side of the war hawks, who already bankrupted our country with the longest and stupidest war in our history, partially on his bidding, and he is helping them egg on another. This one probably won't be as long as it could conceivably end the planet as we know it.
How do you trust someone who says something on Monday -- no Palestinian state -- and takes it back on Thursday? That isn't flip-flopping. That isn't "walking it back." Either he was lying on Monday or he was lying on Thursday.
2
I frequently hear comments from Israelis and progressive Jewish Americans that they have come to a point where they do not believe they can negotiate in good faith with Palestinians. They believed in a two state solution, but they now feel that Palestinians only want Israel's destruction, not peace. They feel that becoming more conservative is a pragmatic, defensible choice under the circumstances. I understand this position; it's self defense; a "them"or me" scenario. But, the end result is denying an entire group of people basic human rights and citizenship. It is apartheid. And I will not, as a progressive, support denying civil liberties to another group of human beings. This is as far as I go with you my friend. Adelson & Hagee now take you onward.
1
The extent of anti-Semitism in so-called progressive and liberal precincts could be called extraordinary, but what is really extraordinary is that Democrats managed to overcome, for some 50 years, the historic anti-Semitism that has plagued Jewish people. The level of anti-Semitism that has spread within the Democratic Party in recent years is really reflective of historic European and Muslim thought and parallels the virulent strain of anti-Semitism that has become louder and louder throughout Europe. Nobody could be surprised when the Obama administration first characterized the murder of Jewish people at a kosher store in Paris as a random act of violence rather than a targeted hate crime.
I don't think the Democrats and Israel have a future together. Ultimately, I don't think Jewish people have a future with the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is quickly becoming a party of ignorance and bigotry towards Jewish people, in much the same way as the Republican Party may be the party of ignorance and bigotry towards African-Americans.
I don't think the Democrats and Israel have a future together. Ultimately, I don't think Jewish people have a future with the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is quickly becoming a party of ignorance and bigotry towards Jewish people, in much the same way as the Republican Party may be the party of ignorance and bigotry towards African-Americans.
1
Do the Democrats and Israel have a future? This is a tricky question. But I believe Palestine has. The way Mr.Benjamin Netanyahu, a seasoned politician, has conducted himself during the recent elections, is a proof that Palestine has a bright future. It is common in Indian politics, during elections, where politicians play caste card. During this election, Mr.Netanyahu has played racist card. By his behaviour, Mr.Netanyahu has lost the respect of the world leaders and people around the globe.
Present government and the next President of the U.S., hope SHE is from Democratic party, should go ahead with the proposed talks with Iran and if everything falls in place, ink a deal too. It is none of Israel's business to shape or dictate America's foreign policy.
Mr.Netanyahu's arrogance will soon enable Palestinians to enjoy full Statehood and recognition of their country by the entire world.
Present government and the next President of the U.S., hope SHE is from Democratic party, should go ahead with the proposed talks with Iran and if everything falls in place, ink a deal too. It is none of Israel's business to shape or dictate America's foreign policy.
Mr.Netanyahu's arrogance will soon enable Palestinians to enjoy full Statehood and recognition of their country by the entire world.
1
Prime Minister Netanyahu is a creation of the environment in which he exists. After Israel's decades of living with terror in the streets, implacable hostility from its Arab neighbors, and hypocritical condemnation from the moral cesspool that is the Western World's 'progressive' class, is it really surprising that such a venal man who promises security is again elected?
The threat of a leftist revolt within the Democratic Party against Israel is part and parcel of the infantile world view wherein America - as long as white people are generally in charge - is an evil place that will only be made right when 'other than white people' become the majority.
Never mind that today in the United States and Israel the average human being enjoys greater freedom, security and material comfort than anywhere at any time in human history. Perhaps you who call yourselves progressives will one day get your wish and you will get the power. Then we can all look forward to the kind of efficient and compassionate governance we see in places like Detroit, Chicago, and nearly all of Africa and the Middle East.
For all your abhorrence of Mr. Netanyahu, you moral neuters in the Democratic Party should accept your part of the responsibility for his reelection.
The threat of a leftist revolt within the Democratic Party against Israel is part and parcel of the infantile world view wherein America - as long as white people are generally in charge - is an evil place that will only be made right when 'other than white people' become the majority.
Never mind that today in the United States and Israel the average human being enjoys greater freedom, security and material comfort than anywhere at any time in human history. Perhaps you who call yourselves progressives will one day get your wish and you will get the power. Then we can all look forward to the kind of efficient and compassionate governance we see in places like Detroit, Chicago, and nearly all of Africa and the Middle East.
For all your abhorrence of Mr. Netanyahu, you moral neuters in the Democratic Party should accept your part of the responsibility for his reelection.
2
People are afraid to say it because they will immediately be branded an anti-semite and could even lose their jobs, but here are the troubling facts.
1. There are many rich Jewish-Americans (Haim Saban, Sheldon Adelson to name a couple) for whom Israel is their number one issue. These people contribute vast amounts of money to PAC's and SuperPAC's and politicians at all levels. They are buying support of Israel plain and simple.
2. Jewish-Americnas are disproportionately represented in the media. Maybe that sounds anti-semitic to some people but facts are facts. Any of us can name at least 25 Jewish-American media figures off the top of our head but would struggle to name even one Muslim-American. That has a very strong influence on the debate (or, I should say, lack of debate) in this country.
3. There are many powerful people and groups in this country who label anyone who is critical of Israel as an anti-semite. For example, can you imagine any politician publicly articulating facts 1 and 2 listed above? Of course not. He would immediately be branded anti-semitic and forced to resign within 12 hours
Our support of Israel weakens our national security, costs us billions of dollars, puts us in the cross-hairs of Islamic terrorists and exposes our 'human rights and freedom' lectures are rank hypocrisy.
Time for an open debate. The stakes are literally life and death.
1. There are many rich Jewish-Americans (Haim Saban, Sheldon Adelson to name a couple) for whom Israel is their number one issue. These people contribute vast amounts of money to PAC's and SuperPAC's and politicians at all levels. They are buying support of Israel plain and simple.
2. Jewish-Americnas are disproportionately represented in the media. Maybe that sounds anti-semitic to some people but facts are facts. Any of us can name at least 25 Jewish-American media figures off the top of our head but would struggle to name even one Muslim-American. That has a very strong influence on the debate (or, I should say, lack of debate) in this country.
3. There are many powerful people and groups in this country who label anyone who is critical of Israel as an anti-semite. For example, can you imagine any politician publicly articulating facts 1 and 2 listed above? Of course not. He would immediately be branded anti-semitic and forced to resign within 12 hours
Our support of Israel weakens our national security, costs us billions of dollars, puts us in the cross-hairs of Islamic terrorists and exposes our 'human rights and freedom' lectures are rank hypocrisy.
Time for an open debate. The stakes are literally life and death.
1
I am a Jewish Democrat but I have a big problem with our unconditional support for Israel. When they shell civilian areas in Gaza and Lebanon, when they build settlements in the West Bank, the US does essentially nothing and their support in Congress is, essentially, a lock, meaning no interruption in the billions we give them each year. There are a myriad of other examples as well. And our unconditional support for their aggressiveness relates to 9/11. The right wing government in Israel is damaging to US interests and our leaders need to step up and criticize them when appropriate and treat them like any other country.
4
Seriously, liberal Israeli Jews are now going to have to think hard about a future in a country that might no longer be democratic, and where secular citizens become an increasingly unwelcome minority. Time to start working on Plans B, C, and D (a.k.a., US, Canada, Australia ...)
Israel's tact to the right reminds me of the once powerful labor unions after their members started voting Republican. Israelis should keep in mind that the current Republican mind-set is regardless of the consequences, if it is bad for Obama they are for it. And no matter how good something is, if Obama benefits they are against it.
Obama will be gone come 2016, and where will Netanyahu and company be if another Democrat replaces him? Can he count on our right wing to remain as loony as ever?
Obama will be gone come 2016, and where will Netanyahu and company be if another Democrat replaces him? Can he count on our right wing to remain as loony as ever?
Israel's long term survival depends on making peace with it's neighbors. Although I understand the risks of ceding land and autonomy to the palestinians, there is no alternative. Better to make an honest attempt at a deal now, while Israel is still the strongest country in the region, rather than down the line, when weapons are miniaturized, GPS guided from 100s of miles away, and they also have to deal with the risk of a nuclear Iran.
An independent state of Palestine could not attack Israel without risking the same retribution that would come if any country attacked another.
An independent state of Palestine could not attack Israel without risking the same retribution that would come if any country attacked another.
The underlying question is not if the US, Democrats, or US Jews, support Israel. Rather, it is if US policy generally will -- or should -- continue to be mindlessly wagged by the Israel tail. The US should support Israel (e.g. in the UN) when the latter's policies and actions are deemed to be proper; it should not support Israel when they are improper or detrimental. In short, US policy with respect to Israel should cease to be knee-jerk.
Now, admittedly what is "proper", and in US interests, is broadly unresolved. For example, parts of the Republican Party have become a foreign extension of Likud, apparently accepting Netanyahu as their leader, an effectively one-state nonsolution, and a right-wing, apartheid-prone Israel. In a word, they are the tail.
This stance suits Neocons, but it's bad for the US, Israel, the Middle East (which in itself is bad enough), and the international community. This lesson ought to have been learned by now, but not just by Democrats.
Now, admittedly what is "proper", and in US interests, is broadly unresolved. For example, parts of the Republican Party have become a foreign extension of Likud, apparently accepting Netanyahu as their leader, an effectively one-state nonsolution, and a right-wing, apartheid-prone Israel. In a word, they are the tail.
This stance suits Neocons, but it's bad for the US, Israel, the Middle East (which in itself is bad enough), and the international community. This lesson ought to have been learned by now, but not just by Democrats.
1
I am a strong supporter of Israel. The existence of Israel is one of the most important issues facing the world as it has been since the establishment of the Jewish since 1949. For centuries, the Jewish people had been mistreated, maligned, and murdered throughout Europe, culminating n the Holocaust during WWII. Israel exists no only as a haven for the Jewish people but as a counterweight against the forces of global evil. Until recently, Israel could count on the USA to support it; even during the Carter administration, Israel could count on USA support. Under Obama, however, that support has decreased significantly, the USA is no longer a trusted ally. Under Obama, the USA has become a "fair weather" friend. For that reason, Israel must act on its own to preserve its existence, especially in light of Iranian nuclear ambitions. The observations of Elliot Abrams, one the greatest diplomats of all time, are astute and prophetic. America needs more men like Abrams shaping its foreign policy with respect to Israel. As for those who don't support Israel, let's hope another Nazi-like regime does reemerge, because the safe haven may no longer exist.
2
An interesting article in today's Times by Isabel Kershner accounts in part for the increasing divide between the Democratic party and Israel. Israel was founded primarily by Ashkenazi Jews from Eastern and Central Europe. They were idealists, socialists, and social democrats. They believed in institutions, such as the Kibbutz, labor unions, and government supported health care. Their political values were consonant with those of Democrats since FDR.
With the influx of Sephardic Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, the political culture of Israel began to change. They were poorer and less
educated than the Ashkenazi, and discriminated against in obtaining good jobs. They also did not rise to the higher ranks in the IDF. Consequently, they gave their support to the Likhud and other right wing parties rather than the Labor party.
At the same time, the values of the pioneer farmers and socialists were disfavored by their descendents, who valued money-making and business. Today, Sephardic Jews continue to support Likhud and its entrepreneurial culture, even though income inequality is greater in Israel than in the U.S.
This coarsening of political values in Israel makes it more attractive to the current Republican party in the United States. It also makes it less attractive to younger, more communally minded Democrats. If this continues, the main supporters of Israel in the United States will be right wing evangelicals and business people.
With the influx of Sephardic Jews from the Middle East and North Africa, the political culture of Israel began to change. They were poorer and less
educated than the Ashkenazi, and discriminated against in obtaining good jobs. They also did not rise to the higher ranks in the IDF. Consequently, they gave their support to the Likhud and other right wing parties rather than the Labor party.
At the same time, the values of the pioneer farmers and socialists were disfavored by their descendents, who valued money-making and business. Today, Sephardic Jews continue to support Likhud and its entrepreneurial culture, even though income inequality is greater in Israel than in the U.S.
This coarsening of political values in Israel makes it more attractive to the current Republican party in the United States. It also makes it less attractive to younger, more communally minded Democrats. If this continues, the main supporters of Israel in the United States will be right wing evangelicals and business people.
This middle-aged, American Jew no longer supports Israel's right-wing government policies that continue inflame the region and damage any remaining prospects for achieving a peaceful settlement between the Israelis and Palestinians.
You reap what you sow, I learned that hard lesson many years ago. The next confrontation that comes to Israel's door, I will remember well the behavior of Netanyahu towards my president and look the other way.
You reap what you sow, I learned that hard lesson many years ago. The next confrontation that comes to Israel's door, I will remember well the behavior of Netanyahu towards my president and look the other way.
1
The other night at a seminar presented by a well known historian, he made a side comment critical of the invitation by John Boehner to Netanyanhu and Netanyanhu's speech before the US Congress. The diverse crowd of attendees, many thousands, applauded his criticism. The Boehner/Netanyanhu/Dermer axis will cost both Israel and the Republican party dearly. Mostly Israel.
Do they have a future together? Not together, they don't. In fact, it's kind of doubtful that the US even has a future. To be continued...
I am a Democrat and was always - ALWAYS - supportive of Israel. But after Bibi's insulting our President, racist tweets during their recent election, trying to sway our elections and continuously building homes in disputed territory, I am absolutely reconsidering my views. It seems all Israel wants us to do is fight their wars that they are starting, without even trying to come up with a reasonable compromise to the Palestinian issue. It only continues to get worse. I have respect for Jews, but am quickly losing respect for Israel.
1
There is going to come a time when Israel's main supporters in the US are right-wing pre-millennial fundamentalist Christians whose only interest is Israel is to herd all the Jews into one place for God can cast then into a lake of fire and Jesus can return.
If you think this sounds like something I am making up, you have not been paying attention to what these people are saying.
It's weird and disgusting. I can't believe Netanyahu is playing with this kind of fire.
If you think this sounds like something I am making up, you have not been paying attention to what these people are saying.
It's weird and disgusting. I can't believe Netanyahu is playing with this kind of fire.
Perhaps this is good news for Republicans. As more Jews wake up and experience the anti-Semitism of many Democrats, disguised as antipathy towards the Jewish state and its democratically elected leader, they will finally realize that this is no longer their grandparent's Democratic Party.
2
I'm a long-time supporter of Israel. As a high school student I remember wishing I could join the Israeli Army during the Six Day War. That said, this is new. Israel has become the proponent of racial apartheid. I won't support the principal of exclusion that Jews so rightly objected to in Germany. It's time to cut off the money that makes their hubris possible. Perhaps when they find they really are alone, they'll decide to reassess.
2
Quote: “Democrats have to address it,” Abrams told me in September, as he reached to retrieve one of his grandson’s marbles. “Democrats who feel less supportive are not going to listen to me. They are going to listen to Hillary Clinton.”
Why is there so much one-sided high-handedness when it comes to Israel? Netanyahu led the scorched earth campaign and now it's up to Clinton to fix it?
Ok, I'm willing to play -- to get utterly cynical (as looking for anything aspirational is considered "naive" and cynicism rules the playbook)...in this case, what does someone like Abrams have to offer up to the Democrats? If there's horsetrading, you gotta give Democrats like me something. What do you have to offer to someone like me to forgive or at least forget the repeated insults to the President I voted for and the insistent manipulations to bend our national policy in the best interests of Israel? What's going to make me forget about all my personal values best represented (if not perfectly) by the Democratic party and throw my lot in with the increasingly vile GOP? Remember, Netanyahu made this partisan, not the Democrats.
If Abrams wants Clinton to undo Netanyahu's damage, he better arm Clinton with something to offer up in exchange. AND, I want something tangible -- not some platitudes about supporting the only democratic ally in the ME -- that stuff is all naive, remember?
What's the give? Because I can assure you, you're not going to get something for nothing.
Why is there so much one-sided high-handedness when it comes to Israel? Netanyahu led the scorched earth campaign and now it's up to Clinton to fix it?
Ok, I'm willing to play -- to get utterly cynical (as looking for anything aspirational is considered "naive" and cynicism rules the playbook)...in this case, what does someone like Abrams have to offer up to the Democrats? If there's horsetrading, you gotta give Democrats like me something. What do you have to offer to someone like me to forgive or at least forget the repeated insults to the President I voted for and the insistent manipulations to bend our national policy in the best interests of Israel? What's going to make me forget about all my personal values best represented (if not perfectly) by the Democratic party and throw my lot in with the increasingly vile GOP? Remember, Netanyahu made this partisan, not the Democrats.
If Abrams wants Clinton to undo Netanyahu's damage, he better arm Clinton with something to offer up in exchange. AND, I want something tangible -- not some platitudes about supporting the only democratic ally in the ME -- that stuff is all naive, remember?
What's the give? Because I can assure you, you're not going to get something for nothing.
1
Whence this assertion that liberal Jewish Democrats will always support Israel, no matter what it does? That is willful misrepresentation of the truth. I will no more support Bibi's administration than I did W's. Quite the contrary - I will work assiduously against it at every opportunity, and for the same reason: it is behaving in a way that is not only immoral but counter-productive to the (long term) goals of world peace and universal prosperity.
1
Finally the right questions are under considerations. There's not much so wrong with Israel that the ending of America's slavish relationship to it cannot remedy.
The reality of Israel is that a very vigorous, aggressive group of Europeans descended upon and absconded with an inhabited territory. There was no problem until that zealous cloud declared that that territory was theirs, and that the inhabitants weren't welcome.
You can dance your entire life around other views but you cannot ever escape this one. There are good, in fact excellent, solutions -- but so far no one in that 'cloud' seems prepared to consider them.
The reality of Israel is that a very vigorous, aggressive group of Europeans descended upon and absconded with an inhabited territory. There was no problem until that zealous cloud declared that that territory was theirs, and that the inhabitants weren't welcome.
You can dance your entire life around other views but you cannot ever escape this one. There are good, in fact excellent, solutions -- but so far no one in that 'cloud' seems prepared to consider them.
3
The issue that troubles me is that we have members of Congress who seem more concerned about what is happening with Israel than with the United States. It's as if we have Israel deciding what US foreign policy is going to be. Israel treats the US as a vassal nation. I find it odd that flag waving, USA first, members of Congress proclaim their allegiance to Israel than to the USA. Given two candidates, one who proclaims slavish devotion to Israel, and one who treats Israel like any other foreign nation, I will vote for the one who isn't beholden to Israel. I want a member of Congress working on my behalf, not on behalf of Israel.
1
Prime Minister Netanyahu may have won his election, but clearly with his racist comments he has lost the good will of the majority of American people. Let me be clear: Israel’s existence will never be in doubt, for America is the guarantor. Sure there will be attacks by groups but they won’t threaten Israel’s existence by any measure for they possess no armies, tanks, ships, or bombers.
The conservatives both in Israel and America clearly want Americans and the world to ignore that point. Yet the incessant attempts to manipulate America into a war of choice and another preemptive attack against another Muslim country again over WMD is not going to happen the second time around. The reality is that if Iran conceded to everything that Israel wanted, Netanyahu and his party would quickly generate a new “existential threat” to divert us all from the real issues of Israel’s unsustainable apartheid agenda and suppression of the Palestinian people.
For one, if Israel was truly serious about Iran’s "existential threat" then why would it allow their number one weapon’s customer, China, to in turn sell weapons to Iran?
Rhetoric and reality. Netanyahu’s victory is a hollow one, for America is not going to invade or attack Iran. From a bridge in Selma to the prison cells of Rikers Island, to the Gaza Strip, history’s verdict is clear: apartheid is not sustainable. In two more years under Netanyahu's warmongering the people of Israel will by then truly be ready for change.
The conservatives both in Israel and America clearly want Americans and the world to ignore that point. Yet the incessant attempts to manipulate America into a war of choice and another preemptive attack against another Muslim country again over WMD is not going to happen the second time around. The reality is that if Iran conceded to everything that Israel wanted, Netanyahu and his party would quickly generate a new “existential threat” to divert us all from the real issues of Israel’s unsustainable apartheid agenda and suppression of the Palestinian people.
For one, if Israel was truly serious about Iran’s "existential threat" then why would it allow their number one weapon’s customer, China, to in turn sell weapons to Iran?
Rhetoric and reality. Netanyahu’s victory is a hollow one, for America is not going to invade or attack Iran. From a bridge in Selma to the prison cells of Rikers Island, to the Gaza Strip, history’s verdict is clear: apartheid is not sustainable. In two more years under Netanyahu's warmongering the people of Israel will by then truly be ready for change.
1
I find it ironic that earlier this week when Governor Walker's aide was fired for what she said about Iowa there were comments about the aide's loyalty to the US given she was a citizen of both the UK and USA
And yet America Israelis actively support Netanyahu and his extremist policies that cause damage to both countries, and the entire middle east, and their loyalty is never called into question
Why is this?
And yet America Israelis actively support Netanyahu and his extremist policies that cause damage to both countries, and the entire middle east, and their loyalty is never called into question
Why is this?
1
In New York City, the majority of Jews are Democratic and will continue to vote this party line. They tend to vote for liberal social causes and the Democratic Party is known for representing these ideas. I do not see them crossing party lines any time soon as the Republicans are too conservative for them. New York City has a high Jewish population which should keep the Democrats in power for a long time.
I am a non-Jewish liberal Democrat. I used to support Israel, but no more. I was moved to tears by the Diary of Anne Frank. I remember reading Exodus in college and being tremendously impressed by the courage of the Zionists when they established a Jewish state in the face of numerically superior Arab forces.
But I am now disillusioned with Israel--their atrocities in Gaza, the illegal West Bank settlers, the walls and racism. Their actions remind me of the Afrikaners' in S. Africa. Peace not apartheid!
But I am now disillusioned with Israel--their atrocities in Gaza, the illegal West Bank settlers, the walls and racism. Their actions remind me of the Afrikaners' in S. Africa. Peace not apartheid!
2
A two-state solution is a noble goal, but the situation seems hopelessly deadlocked with Hamas in control and no foreseeable way to unseat them. Israel would never accept a Hamas-led state, and rightfully so, while the Palestinian people cannot or will not change who's in control of them. So I am skeptical that progress could have been made on this issue even had a more moderate candidate won the election in Israel. It's great to discuss ideals, but the reality is what it is.
4
Obama should hold the line at statesmanship and resist the temptation to follow Bibi and Boehner into the sewer. Bibi is not Israel. Boehner is not America. These too shall pass, and Obama will be part of public life in America for a long time. Consider that we still quote Jefferson and J. Q. Adams (per Yancy-Chomsky interview in NYT). Re slavery Jefferson said:
“Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.”
Adams referred to Native Americans as “that hapless race... which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty…among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring [it] to judgment.”
Maybe some Jews think their treatment of Palestinians is ordained by God. Not everyone in Israel or around the world agrees with that.
“Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.”
Adams referred to Native Americans as “that hapless race... which we are exterminating with such merciless and perfidious cruelty…among the heinous sins of this nation, for which I believe God will one day bring [it] to judgment.”
Maybe some Jews think their treatment of Palestinians is ordained by God. Not everyone in Israel or around the world agrees with that.
1
Framing this article with remarks by Elliott Abrams, noted supporter of the contras and right-wing death squads in Central America (how are they doing these days?) in the Reagan administration, says a lot about where support for Israel is today. Instead of focusing on the angst of American Jews, why not put the bread and butter issue up front in press coverage. In an age of fiscal austerity and growing inequality, we continue to write hefty taxpayer checks to a country that thumbs its nose at our leadership, and shows no recognition of the fact that the USA should occasionally consider its own national interest and just that of the 51st state. I say cut Israel loose, we have other interests in the world.
1
I learned about "democracy" at the Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, NC when Chairman Antonio Villaraigosa called for a voice vote to include the terms " God" and "Jerusalem" in the Party's plank. The original 2012 party platform caused controversy after it was written, because the typical invocations and references to God and God-given rights were omitted, and language affirming the role of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was removed. On Wednesday, September 5, former Ohio Governor Ted Strickland introduced an amendment on the floor of the convention to reinsert language invoking God and recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Convention chairman Antonio Villaraigosa put the amendment to a voice vote requiring a two-thirds majority for passage. After the first vote was indecisive, Villaraigosa called for a second vote, which was again met with an equal volume of "ayes" and "nos". A woman standing to his left said, "You've got to rule, and then you've got to let them do what they're gonna do." Villaraigosa called a third vote with the same result. Villaraigosa then declared the amendment passed, causing an eruption of boos on the floor.[33]
1
As an African American, I have to say it is easier to understand the Palestinian position than the Israeli position - even though by any measure, Israel is more liberal than its Palestinian and Arab counterparts. But when we see the animus amongst many Israelis towards President Obama, and general lack of respect for him, it's hard not to return the favor. The right-wing version of Israel will never find strong support among the Democratic base, because many in that base, from their own experience in America, are inherently suspicious of the power that Israel wields over Palestinians. If it comes down to it - Israel does not need America in order to defend itself. We can go our own way, and Israel can go theirs.
1
The socialist-democrat party supports Marxist-Leninist redistribution. It supports multilateral, utopian failure. It supports enemies of America while it is hostile to our former allies. It promotes foreign policy initiatives that NEVER work. So no, the socialist-democrat party and the sewage that populates it will never be on the side of the US or Israel. They are on the side of Venezuela.
1
As a liberal Jew, I can tell you that the Israeli government should, in fact, worry about losing the support of people like me (assuming it means something to them in the first place). Conversely, they can still rely on "everyone else," or the plurality of Americans who are generally less sympathetic to Muslims and more hawkish toward Iran. More to the point, if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee, the liberal view will have no impact at all, especially in foreign policy. Despite media fantasies to the contrary, no one actually votes based on foreign policy, as we've clearly seen over the past decade and a half.
True loyalty to a friend is not the same thing as unthinking support. Nations are not people, but the same principle applies. Israel is our ally, but that does not imply that we must support them no matter what.
The US should sponsor a UN resolution in favor of a two-state solution. This, after all, has been our preference for decades, as one US administration after another has tried to make peace in the middle-east. Sure, Netanyahu will throw a hissy fit of the highest order. But so what?
I was disappointed that Obama did not attach conditions to continued US aid to Israel when he called Netanyahu. It would be appropriate to cancel aid, and especially military aid, while Israel continues to build settlements. Israel is not a poor country; let them choose between building settlements and taxing their 1%.
And before we express any concerns about Iran's nuclear program, we should insist that Israel declare its own nuclear weapons program and sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Sure, the US (and the French) did a lot to enable Israel's program, but that was 50 years ago. No more double standards.
The US should sponsor a UN resolution in favor of a two-state solution. This, after all, has been our preference for decades, as one US administration after another has tried to make peace in the middle-east. Sure, Netanyahu will throw a hissy fit of the highest order. But so what?
I was disappointed that Obama did not attach conditions to continued US aid to Israel when he called Netanyahu. It would be appropriate to cancel aid, and especially military aid, while Israel continues to build settlements. Israel is not a poor country; let them choose between building settlements and taxing their 1%.
And before we express any concerns about Iran's nuclear program, we should insist that Israel declare its own nuclear weapons program and sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Sure, the US (and the French) did a lot to enable Israel's program, but that was 50 years ago. No more double standards.
1
The stand off between Netanyahu and Obama could be Hillary's 'Sister Souljah' moment. It is time for Israel to face the consequences of it's PM's words. The U.N veto NON vote could be a good first start. It states what has been obvious for years, if not decades. It's time to stop the charade of the march of the settlements by the extreme Orthodox. U.S foreign policy should not be held hostage by this group, and it certainly shouldn't be yanked over the cliff with a war in Iran.
Hillary needs to take a stand on this issue, and not run another focus group. Both the U.S. and Israel would benefit from that.
Hillary needs to take a stand on this issue, and not run another focus group. Both the U.S. and Israel would benefit from that.
For the 3 billion we give Israel yearly , you would think they would be honest with USA about negotiating a permanent solution to their problems with the Palestinian's . Maybe it's is time not to use our veto at UN , and let UN decide West Bank issue.
1
I feel that this article misses the most important points.
Foreign Jews do have an important role to play in perceptions of Israel, because they contribute a to a huge degree to Israel's legitimacy. If it weren't for Jewish support in the U.S., and in fact for fear of right-wing Jewish organizations like AIPAC, criticism of Israel would have been much stronger much earlier in the U.S., and would be far stronger today than it is.
Moreoever these views have influence in Israel as well. The Israeli right's legitimacy depends significantly on support, both financial and moral, from overseas. That support has enabled a terrible suppression of human rights -- it has made a bad situation far worse. The support Israel gets from the Christian right in the U.S. is, by contrast, worthwhile financially but of far less value morally or politically, especially in Israel.
Moreover, uncritical support of Israel by U.S. Jews is, unfairly but still factually, indirectly feeding the terrible rise of anti-Semitism. Israel is clearly a state which acts terribly repressively -- and that repression is not mitigated by Israel's very real positive attributes, or by its very real security concerns. Everyone who has a computer can now see this repression; the only question is whether it is excused or not. Of course, it is wrong to blame Jews elsewhere for Israel's wrongs -- but it would be a real help for Jews elsewhere to put pressure on Israel to right them.
Foreign Jews do have an important role to play in perceptions of Israel, because they contribute a to a huge degree to Israel's legitimacy. If it weren't for Jewish support in the U.S., and in fact for fear of right-wing Jewish organizations like AIPAC, criticism of Israel would have been much stronger much earlier in the U.S., and would be far stronger today than it is.
Moreoever these views have influence in Israel as well. The Israeli right's legitimacy depends significantly on support, both financial and moral, from overseas. That support has enabled a terrible suppression of human rights -- it has made a bad situation far worse. The support Israel gets from the Christian right in the U.S. is, by contrast, worthwhile financially but of far less value morally or politically, especially in Israel.
Moreover, uncritical support of Israel by U.S. Jews is, unfairly but still factually, indirectly feeding the terrible rise of anti-Semitism. Israel is clearly a state which acts terribly repressively -- and that repression is not mitigated by Israel's very real positive attributes, or by its very real security concerns. Everyone who has a computer can now see this repression; the only question is whether it is excused or not. Of course, it is wrong to blame Jews elsewhere for Israel's wrongs -- but it would be a real help for Jews elsewhere to put pressure on Israel to right them.
17
Undoubtedly this will sound paranoid, and maybe it is, but I can't stop thinking that in the depths of his subconscious (or maybe conscious) mind, Netanyahu seeks to sow a rift between American Jews and their country with all this belittling of Obama and Kerry and any policy that he feels runs counter to the settlements. Further, I am sure he feels almost as much contempt for liberal American Jews as he does for Israeli Arabs. His goal: make life uncomfortable enough for all American Jews in the eyes of non-Jews, so as to lure future settlers to continue to take over the West Bank and force ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians there.
I wouldn't for a moment blame non-Jewish Americans for thinking AIPAC takes its marching orders from Likud, just like the old American Communist Party followed the Kremlin line to a tee, and wonder how long it will take before Americans, Jews and non-Jews alike, start thinking there is a fifth column operative in US politics.
I wouldn't for a moment blame non-Jewish Americans for thinking AIPAC takes its marching orders from Likud, just like the old American Communist Party followed the Kremlin line to a tee, and wonder how long it will take before Americans, Jews and non-Jews alike, start thinking there is a fifth column operative in US politics.
Pro-Israel Democrats had better start speaking up -- that means you, Chuck Schumer. They don't want to offend their party's President or give succor to the GOP, so they are laying low. The fact is that Bibi and Herzog are on the same page where Israel's security is concerned and both know that the peace process is dead, except for ritualistic incantations, unless and until there is a Palestinian partner who can deliver a lasting deal and actually make peace. The Palestinians have flatly rejected three offers of a state in the last 15 years. Israel withdrew from Gaza,which is thus no longer "occupied," only to have Islamist extremists of Hamas take over and start firing missiles into Israel, supported by, among others, an increasingly Islamist Turkey. Meanwhile, ISIS crazed armies are knocking on the door in adjacent Syria, al Qaeda terrorists are riding high in adjacent Sinai, and hovering over the whole mess is a belligerent Iran, intent on getting nuclear bombs. Amidst all this, Obama is furious because Israelis reelected Bibi!
Like I said, Chuck, you guys better speak up soon, before it's too late.
Like I said, Chuck, you guys better speak up soon, before it's too late.
4
I think Bibi is just playing the odds. With a Republican President you get war with Iran complete with American boots on the ground and that pretty much solves Israel's problems for a very long time.
You bet on the wrong horse, Bibi. You should be aligning with Hilary rather than angering Democrats. You may have won your election but we will win in 2016. Progressives support civil rights and I am confident that a new Palestine will happen in my lifetime.
"They [Israeli right wing] see American support for a two-state solution and a freeze on settlement growth as a naïve recipe for more missiles landing on Israeli homes."
The missiles from Gaza have been an irritant, not a national threat. The primary motivation of the political and religious conservative groups in Israel, as well as their US supporters, based on both words and deeds, is an Israeli nation stretching from the Jordan River westward to the Med.
In a 2014 presentation for the Foreign Policy Association, Elliot Abrams, a gold plated neocon during the Bush 43 administration and, as the article notes, a strong supporter of Netanyahu, made clear his desire that all West Bank Palestinians should be "encouraged" to move to Jordan where, he stated, "they will be much happier."
What Abrams inferred but left unsaid is that one way for this to happen is an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians akin to that of 1948. Another course, presently followed by Likud and its settler and Orthodox supporters, is to continue the expansion of settlements, seizure of Palestinian lands, destruction of Arab property, "price tag" settler attacks, denial of access to most of West Bank aquifer and all of Jordan River water, and any other number of restrictions and indignities so as to "encourage" the Palestinians to quit their native homes.
Unfortunately, this apartheid-like strategy will not end pleasantly for Israel.
The missiles from Gaza have been an irritant, not a national threat. The primary motivation of the political and religious conservative groups in Israel, as well as their US supporters, based on both words and deeds, is an Israeli nation stretching from the Jordan River westward to the Med.
In a 2014 presentation for the Foreign Policy Association, Elliot Abrams, a gold plated neocon during the Bush 43 administration and, as the article notes, a strong supporter of Netanyahu, made clear his desire that all West Bank Palestinians should be "encouraged" to move to Jordan where, he stated, "they will be much happier."
What Abrams inferred but left unsaid is that one way for this to happen is an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians akin to that of 1948. Another course, presently followed by Likud and its settler and Orthodox supporters, is to continue the expansion of settlements, seizure of Palestinian lands, destruction of Arab property, "price tag" settler attacks, denial of access to most of West Bank aquifer and all of Jordan River water, and any other number of restrictions and indignities so as to "encourage" the Palestinians to quit their native homes.
Unfortunately, this apartheid-like strategy will not end pleasantly for Israel.
1
It is interesting how little, if any, coverage was given to Israel's opposing party in the recent election. Who even can recall his name or party? Or an invitation to address congress? For someone so apparently loathed, BN has monopoly media coverage.
Unfortunately, a monopoly also exists in Israel's senior public office: BN is in his sixth term. Imagine that in the US, UK, Australia or even the EU nations. Israel's public office arrangements are frankly little different than Iran, Saudi Arabia or nepotism cultures in west Africa. What is being observed in Israel is why term limits are so necessary and healthy.
Lastly, this article somewhat unsettling underscores the degree of foreign special interests in American political institutions and why American citizens will be increasingly seeking transparency and limitations. Perhaps a more central question is what kind of future these special interest actors have here.
Unfortunately, a monopoly also exists in Israel's senior public office: BN is in his sixth term. Imagine that in the US, UK, Australia or even the EU nations. Israel's public office arrangements are frankly little different than Iran, Saudi Arabia or nepotism cultures in west Africa. What is being observed in Israel is why term limits are so necessary and healthy.
Lastly, this article somewhat unsettling underscores the degree of foreign special interests in American political institutions and why American citizens will be increasingly seeking transparency and limitations. Perhaps a more central question is what kind of future these special interest actors have here.
1
Abrams has it backwards - Democrats do not have to address it, Israel does. They have created this schism, it is theirs to clean up.
It is also long past time to begin detaching US foreign policy from Israeli foreign policy. Starting in the UN, and continuing with the nuclear agreements with Iran. Perhaps we could close that deal by formally stating that Israel does have the bomb and the US would like proliferation in the region to stop. Nothing like the truth, spoken plainly, to clear the air.
It is also long past time to begin detaching US foreign policy from Israeli foreign policy. Starting in the UN, and continuing with the nuclear agreements with Iran. Perhaps we could close that deal by formally stating that Israel does have the bomb and the US would like proliferation in the region to stop. Nothing like the truth, spoken plainly, to clear the air.
When I first read this article and the comments (mostly anti-Netanyahu and Israeli), I thought it was about reactions to Netanyahu hard line stance against Moslem terrorism. I now realize that it is about the political sell out of Israel engineered by President Obama whose political agenda for the Middle East can only be accomplished by selling out Israel. In other words, making Israel the scapegoat for the years of misguided political policies in the Middle East going back to Reagan and the beginnings of the rise of Moslem terrorism. Anyway you cut it, anti-semitism is at the core. Sorry I'm with Netanyahu, never again.
1
Anyone supporting Netanyahu has not been paying attention. His recent campaign speech to Congress was nothing more than the same song and dance on Iran that is now over 30 years old. Consider:
Part I:
1984: West German intelligence sources claim that Iran’s production of a bomb “is entering its final stages.” US Senator Alan Cranston claims Iran is seven years away from making a weapon.
1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon.
1995: The New York Times reports that US and Israeli officials fear “Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought” – less than five years away. Netanyahu claims the time frame is three to five years.
1996: Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres claims Iran will have nuclear weapons in four years.
1998: Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claims Iran could build an ICBM capable of reaching the US within five years.
1999: An Israeli military official claims that Iran will have a nuclear weapon within five years.
2001: The Israeli Minister of Defence claims that Iran will be ready to launch a nuclear weapon in less than four years.
2002: The CIA warns that the danger of nuclear weapons from Iran is higher than during the Cold War, because its missile capability has grown more quickly than expected since 2000 – putting it on par with North Korea.
Part I:
1984: West German intelligence sources claim that Iran’s production of a bomb “is entering its final stages.” US Senator Alan Cranston claims Iran is seven years away from making a weapon.
1992: Israeli parliamentarian Benjamin Netanyahu tells his colleagues that Iran is 3 to 5 years from being able to produce a nuclear weapon.
1995: The New York Times reports that US and Israeli officials fear “Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than previously thought” – less than five years away. Netanyahu claims the time frame is three to five years.
1996: Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres claims Iran will have nuclear weapons in four years.
1998: Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld claims Iran could build an ICBM capable of reaching the US within five years.
1999: An Israeli military official claims that Iran will have a nuclear weapon within five years.
2001: The Israeli Minister of Defence claims that Iran will be ready to launch a nuclear weapon in less than four years.
2002: The CIA warns that the danger of nuclear weapons from Iran is higher than during the Cold War, because its missile capability has grown more quickly than expected since 2000 – putting it on par with North Korea.
3
It makes no sense to forget and forgive the shameless affront Netanyahu insulted the sovereignty of The United States in his cheap trick political maneuver to be reelected. If there is no one else to "do business with" in Israel, we should walk away from future support...
1
What is striking to me is this: the liberal or progressive case for Israel isn't just weak -it is amazingly, almost ridiculously, weak. The fact that Dermer can't see this is revealing. Indeed, the problem that Israel has always posed for progressives is that supporting Israel is an outright contradiction of everything else they believe. The Palestinians - much like the native people of the Americas - were displaced and driven into exile by a group of European settlers who, even today, refuse to acknowledge the injustice they committed and are doing all they can to deny the indigenous Arabs even the semblance of dignity and independence. The issues in the Arab-Israeli conflict has underlying complexities which make this summation a bit simplistic but, essentially, this is at the root of the conflict. Why should progressives support Israel at all?
It is this enormous contradiction - evident from the outset - that has gradually pushed progressives and liberals away from Israel. The same will happen with liberal Jews. In the end, liberal Jews in the US will need to choose between their values and tribalism. Many - as Peter Beinart has argued - will choose liberalism. This will become particularly true as the world watches Israel keep the Palestinians in line through even greater displays of brutality and violence. Watching an unimaginably powerful state regularly slaughter impotent, captive populations of starving, beaten down people isn't exactly an appealing sight.
It is this enormous contradiction - evident from the outset - that has gradually pushed progressives and liberals away from Israel. The same will happen with liberal Jews. In the end, liberal Jews in the US will need to choose between their values and tribalism. Many - as Peter Beinart has argued - will choose liberalism. This will become particularly true as the world watches Israel keep the Palestinians in line through even greater displays of brutality and violence. Watching an unimaginably powerful state regularly slaughter impotent, captive populations of starving, beaten down people isn't exactly an appealing sight.
1
American Jews will support candidates that embrace policies that are pro-Israel. Although Jews have been traditionally Democratic for decades their offspring have emerged as an elite profession class that have new implication for their welling being than the previous struggling generation. Thus Jews may not vocalise whom they support but in terms of Jewish society, nothing has changed. They have experienced being annihilated in the last 100 years and Israel represents the Jewish identity and being. Separate out the Hollywood too much money liberals from highly educated professional class and you will find the candidate who aims to support or propose conservative approach to maintain and grow stronger to preserve Jewish society regardless of his/her political stripes.
1
NYTimes and most major media outlets come out in force to support Hamas and the unity government, acting like Israel hasn't been under siege since its inception. How many times does Israel have to give up land in exchange for rocket attacks, terror tunnels, suicide bombers, knife attacks?
Iran is at Israel's door on the boarder with Syria setting up another point of attack, on the Lebanon boarder they have Hezbollah, and from within West Bank and Gaza they have Hamas and PLO launching attacks while strapping children to their chests to be more then just literal human shields, yet Israel is the one accused of killing "innocent children", which no mention of the terrorist said "innocent terrorist" was strapped to at the time of the attack.
Open your eyes people, Bibi isn't really against a 2 state solution, if he was, he would not have worked to give back West Bank through negotiation, nor given Gaza back sans no peace partner to speak of unilaterally in hopes leaving green houses and contracts in place to help improve Palestinian lives would create another bridge to more peace. Instead green houses were torn town and irrigation systems were disassembled along with concrete to create new bombs while making the "palestinian people's" lives that much better.
If you want Hamas training videos, military training starts in Pre-K, that alone is a war crime.
Iran is at Israel's door on the boarder with Syria setting up another point of attack, on the Lebanon boarder they have Hezbollah, and from within West Bank and Gaza they have Hamas and PLO launching attacks while strapping children to their chests to be more then just literal human shields, yet Israel is the one accused of killing "innocent children", which no mention of the terrorist said "innocent terrorist" was strapped to at the time of the attack.
Open your eyes people, Bibi isn't really against a 2 state solution, if he was, he would not have worked to give back West Bank through negotiation, nor given Gaza back sans no peace partner to speak of unilaterally in hopes leaving green houses and contracts in place to help improve Palestinian lives would create another bridge to more peace. Instead green houses were torn town and irrigation systems were disassembled along with concrete to create new bombs while making the "palestinian people's" lives that much better.
If you want Hamas training videos, military training starts in Pre-K, that alone is a war crime.
2
The real concern of the author is not so much that Israel is losing the support of American Jews, but that the Democrat Party is losing the support of American Jews. (Liberal Jewish college students are disenchanted with Israel. So? What are they going to do, join a Muslim student union)?
In 2008, Obama got 80% of the Jewish vote. In 2012, he got 70%. Today, he’d probably be lucky to get 50%.
It’s inevitable. As the Democrat Party courts races and religions that are, at best, lukewarm to Judaism and at worse, absolutely hostile to it, American Jews are going to drift away from the Democrat Party. In effect the Democrats are dumping Jews, who comprise only about 2% of the American population, in favor of, for example, Muslims, which are a growing percentage of the population. In this the Democrats are doing the same thing they did when they dumped Southern Whites in favor of Blacks back in the 60s.
And, like the Southern Whites, American Jews have an alternative – the Republican Party – which in general gives its full support to Israel.
It’s an ironic change: liberals are becoming more anti-Israel while conservatives are becoming more pro-Israel.
In 2008, Obama got 80% of the Jewish vote. In 2012, he got 70%. Today, he’d probably be lucky to get 50%.
It’s inevitable. As the Democrat Party courts races and religions that are, at best, lukewarm to Judaism and at worse, absolutely hostile to it, American Jews are going to drift away from the Democrat Party. In effect the Democrats are dumping Jews, who comprise only about 2% of the American population, in favor of, for example, Muslims, which are a growing percentage of the population. In this the Democrats are doing the same thing they did when they dumped Southern Whites in favor of Blacks back in the 60s.
And, like the Southern Whites, American Jews have an alternative – the Republican Party – which in general gives its full support to Israel.
It’s an ironic change: liberals are becoming more anti-Israel while conservatives are becoming more pro-Israel.
1
Netanyahu along with the ultra right wing of the republican party has managed to do more damage to the reputation of Israel and to unjustly feed anti-semitic feelings in the country. The belief in the general public is that the Jewish lobby controlled by Israel for its own political gain controls congress and the money which flows to it each year now in the billions. Billions which could be spent here at home instead. Netanyahu openly flaunted his arrogance and lines his pockets by making the absurd speech in front of congress who liked trained parrots clapped and squawked in his appearance. What else are Americans to think when a thug like Netanyahu stands up and gloats he has congress in his pockets an Obama cannot get anything accomplished. This will backlash on Israel for a long time to come. Netanyahu remains a war criminal for the over 1400 deaths of women and children who were murdered by Israeli bombing in the 2014 Gaza incursion. Other than the 67 Israeli soldiers killed in these attacks not one Israeli citizen was harmed as reported by the BBC. We have become so blind by what Israel has become much like the tail wagging the dog.
1
Interesting column, interesting comments. Sometimes extremists like Netanyahu are insightful and far-seeing in identifying problems, even though they are terrible at identifying solutions. Netanyahu's fundamental perception (there is no way Iran is peaceful and will absolutely develop nuclear weapons) is accurate. His Republican-friendly tactics are dictated by the politics of the moment, but that is true of all politicians, and this year's political alliances are next year's discarded history. The right way to disentangle the problems of the Palestinians from the long-term threat of Iran is unclear, and Israeli hardliners and Palestinian hardliners both have their reasons to keep the issues tangled. It should be in America's interest to agree with Netanyahu about Iran, and disagree about the Palestinians and the obvious right and need they have for ordinary civil rights and protections that extend to citizens of any state (whether it is one-state or two-states). To the extent that Obama thinks that Iran wants nuclear power for peaceful uses, he is a fool, but the article makes clear that the long term implications of policy extend beyond any particular person or candidate.
The greatest threat to Israel is not Iran. Israel is the undisputed only nuclear superpower in the region with undisputed conventional military forces dominace. It is not Hamas or Hezbollah, two desperate groups that Israel can punish with impunity whenever it so choses. The greatest threat to Israel is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the staunchly (Israel right or wrong) pro-Israel lobby and the single most powerful foreign policy lobby in the history of the United States.
There is saying, “friends do not let friends drive drunk.” This is exactly AAPC does: shielding Netanyahu's now coalition of extreme hard right government which denies a two-state solution. In the absence of a two-state solution, the question, as Tom Friedman and other pro-Israel centrists have aptly noted, is: Does Israel want to remain Jewish (theocracy) but not democratic or a democracy but not Jewish?
Aba Eban once stated that, and I am slightly paraphrasing, it does not matter who the president of the United States as long as we have Congress, and we will always have Congress. Well, with the racist rant of Natanyhu regarding Israeli ‘Arabs’ racing to the polls, African Americans and especially the growing Latinos population and the democratic center-left are fed up with Israel. With 4.5 million stateless Palestinians under Israel’s occupation, how long before the titanic plate of American public opinion shifts, Mr. American Israeli Public Affairs Committee?
There is saying, “friends do not let friends drive drunk.” This is exactly AAPC does: shielding Netanyahu's now coalition of extreme hard right government which denies a two-state solution. In the absence of a two-state solution, the question, as Tom Friedman and other pro-Israel centrists have aptly noted, is: Does Israel want to remain Jewish (theocracy) but not democratic or a democracy but not Jewish?
Aba Eban once stated that, and I am slightly paraphrasing, it does not matter who the president of the United States as long as we have Congress, and we will always have Congress. Well, with the racist rant of Natanyhu regarding Israeli ‘Arabs’ racing to the polls, African Americans and especially the growing Latinos population and the democratic center-left are fed up with Israel. With 4.5 million stateless Palestinians under Israel’s occupation, how long before the titanic plate of American public opinion shifts, Mr. American Israeli Public Affairs Committee?
Progressives have this abstract view on how peace is to be made. Israel has to show strength and will towards Hamas to its left, Hezbollah to its north, Egypt to the south, and the West Bank on its right. These negotiations are not talking place in a vacuum. Radicals constantly threatening Israel are causing this friction. Democrats are showing some ire by lecturing Israel on its own defense when they are not aware of the realities there and they continue to follow a petty party line.
1
Just as with the Bush/Cheney, Netanyahu made a choice to rule by 'cult of personality' rather than thought and vision. While the Bush/Cheney will continue its remarkably negative impact on the U.S. for a while yet, the size and sweep of America neutralizes some of its wider impact.
As a much smaller and newer nation simultaneously mired in deadly regional and day to day geopolitical mix, Israel has far less ability to absorb such cynical and divisive politics. And the politics of divisiveness has been pursued, almost solely, by Netanyahu and the Israeli variants of America's neocons; not by Obama, not J Street, not 'liberal' Jews...but by Bibi.
While such strategies won Bibi back his day job, it has also placed Israel's current stability and future viability at a risk larger than currently posed by the PA, Hamas and, likely even, Iran. Israel's new 'cult of personality' pursued without any coherence of vision is the primary problem; not the nation of Israel.
The fact that Bibi is not 'Israel' but the elected leader of Israel needs to be driven home. That Israel doesn't work off of a unified consciousness anymore than the U.S. also needs to be driven home. This dangerous misperception created by Bibi and Israel's 'neocons' has become Israel's own Pandora's Box.
A political priority for the Israeli and Diaspora opposition is to talk about Israel; not Israel as Netanyahu or Israel filtered by Dermer...but to talk about Israel while making this clear political distinction.
As a much smaller and newer nation simultaneously mired in deadly regional and day to day geopolitical mix, Israel has far less ability to absorb such cynical and divisive politics. And the politics of divisiveness has been pursued, almost solely, by Netanyahu and the Israeli variants of America's neocons; not by Obama, not J Street, not 'liberal' Jews...but by Bibi.
While such strategies won Bibi back his day job, it has also placed Israel's current stability and future viability at a risk larger than currently posed by the PA, Hamas and, likely even, Iran. Israel's new 'cult of personality' pursued without any coherence of vision is the primary problem; not the nation of Israel.
The fact that Bibi is not 'Israel' but the elected leader of Israel needs to be driven home. That Israel doesn't work off of a unified consciousness anymore than the U.S. also needs to be driven home. This dangerous misperception created by Bibi and Israel's 'neocons' has become Israel's own Pandora's Box.
A political priority for the Israeli and Diaspora opposition is to talk about Israel; not Israel as Netanyahu or Israel filtered by Dermer...but to talk about Israel while making this clear political distinction.
1
It is a Whitehouse dream that Netanyahu affair will drive a wedge among American Jews on one hand and among Israeli on the other. Following 2014 elections support of Democrats by American Jews dropped from 85 to 60 per cent and now it is in a free fall. As for Israeli, they have a democracy second to none in the Middle East. With a new coalition government many of Netanyahu foes will join and even the second largest party, Mahane Zioni, may join as well. What is left in Israel is the Obama anti Netanyahu election team , Jeramy Rise and tones of money provided by US to stir up anti Netanyahu sentiment. Readers must understand that India prime minister Narendra Modi sent congratulations to Netanyahu in Hebrew while relations of Israel with China and Japan were never better. Many readers concerned about money US providing Israel: In 1998 as Netanyahu was Israel treasury minister he requested US to stop all ECONOMIC support to Israel. Israel does not get per capita more than a small fraction of what the Palestinians, Hamas included, get from US, EU, UN, Arab and other countries. Israel gets MILITARY support but most of the money remains in US and supports US industry. Much of US money goes also for development of defense systems Iron Dome which is important for US not less than to Israel. Israel had with 22 peace initiatives last in 2008 all of which were rejected. Abbas is partner with Hamas which wants to destroy Israel. Who should Israel negotiate with?
5
Spot on. I'm a 50 something Democrat who always thought of Israel as the good guy, worthy of our support. It's no longer so. It cannot be any clearer that Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer believe they can safely put my loyalty in play. I wish them well. I will be demanding that my representatives change the nature and scope of our relationship with Israel. But that too, of course, does not worry Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Dermer one bit.
9
In the 2016 election, Democrats may lose significant support from their young voter stronghold. It's not easy to get any but the already committed pro-Israel youth to visit The Holy Land to see economic and cultural vibrancy of the country.
Netanyahu is fueling a growing international wave of Israel antipathy as he bows to religious extremists at home and in the U.S. He may be politically shrewd but viewed from a high level, he has made a big mistake.
Netanyahu is fueling a growing international wave of Israel antipathy as he bows to religious extremists at home and in the U.S. He may be politically shrewd but viewed from a high level, he has made a big mistake.
2
Isn't it funny how all the far right supporters of Israel now claim that the 2-state solution never existed anyway - the same folks who claim the settlements don't matter either. Many others just ridicule the Bibi comments as just election politics - No because thousands have died over them.
7
Religious government is problematic no matter what religion it is.
13
Israel, for the GOP, at least, is now the 51st state, albeit a nuclear armed one.
2
Why is the sub title of the article directly below this titled: "White House Antagonism toward Netanyahu rather than the other way around? After reading the piece I am still wondering what The White House [President Obama] did to "antagonize" a foreign politician who tried to co-opt "our" political mechanism (the U.S. Congress) for an election "back home". Why is The Times reframing the narrative?
6
John Boehner invited Bibi Netanyahu to address Congress without alerting the White House first so he could deliver a speech trying to undercut the administration's negotiations with Iran (and Boehner is soon going on a triumphant return visit) and "the Jewish establishment" (whatever that is) wonders why Democrats don't look so favorably on Israel any more? The same reason they don't look so favorably on the NRA or the anti-gay crowd.
4
Mr. Netanyahu's polarization of Israeli relationship with the United States is serious strategic mistake. It is as unwise for the state of Israel to take sides in the political dysfunction of our federal government as it is for friends of a divorcing couple to do so. The state of Israel does not have many friends in the world, and jeopardizing its relationship with its most powerful and long standing one is extremely unwise.
Whatever concerns, the state of Israel may have over our State Department's negotiations with Iran over nuclear weapons should be expressed respectfully and privately to the Secretary of State and the President not Congress. Whatever agreement is reached between the United States and Iran, the security of the state of Israel will not be unduly compromised or undermined. For many decades the United States has supported, at the expense of antagonizing other governments in the region, when attacked or threatened. However, Mr. Netanyahu has chosen to erode support of his country's vital national security with injecting his government into domestic politics.
One can only imagine Mr. Netanyahu's government's reaction if President Obama accepted an invitation to speak to the Arab members of the Jewish Parliament and citizens after his blatant racist demagoguery during Israel's last election.
Whatever concerns, the state of Israel may have over our State Department's negotiations with Iran over nuclear weapons should be expressed respectfully and privately to the Secretary of State and the President not Congress. Whatever agreement is reached between the United States and Iran, the security of the state of Israel will not be unduly compromised or undermined. For many decades the United States has supported, at the expense of antagonizing other governments in the region, when attacked or threatened. However, Mr. Netanyahu has chosen to erode support of his country's vital national security with injecting his government into domestic politics.
One can only imagine Mr. Netanyahu's government's reaction if President Obama accepted an invitation to speak to the Arab members of the Jewish Parliament and citizens after his blatant racist demagoguery during Israel's last election.
5
Perhaps Netanyahu, Dermer, et al, could reach an accommodation with the Democrats: In return for support of Israel, Israel would push to send us Israel's universal health care system.
And if Obamacare was replaced by Netanyahucare, Republicans would then love to take credit for bringing universal health care to America.
And if Obamacare was replaced by Netanyahucare, Republicans would then love to take credit for bringing universal health care to America.
4
Looks to me like Netanyahu is confident that Republicans will secure the White House in 2016; or, being of the same mentality, is meddling in US politics to influence the vote. No matter how you see it, the rest of world must be wondering if either the US or Israel can be trusted and if peace is a goal in name only.
4
I think Israel's problems in the US go beyond the democrats - republican rank and file (other than evangelicals) are getting just as frustrated. Republican politicians only embrace Netanyahu to undercut Obama, and will lose their enthusiasm once Obama is off the stage.
2
Finally!
We have a President who is not going to roll over for the messianic zionist, netanyahu, who would plunge the war into another cataclysmic war with Iran!
Why are prominent American jews remaining silent when it comes to his lies and deceit. Why are Jewish liberals silent on the suffering of the innocents in Gaza and the West Bank? Why are they silent on the settlements in the illegally occupied territories? American jews need to decide where their first allegiance lies: israel or the US!
You cannot serve two masters especially when one is an arrogant megalomaniac and a war-mongering liar!
We have a President who is not going to roll over for the messianic zionist, netanyahu, who would plunge the war into another cataclysmic war with Iran!
Why are prominent American jews remaining silent when it comes to his lies and deceit. Why are Jewish liberals silent on the suffering of the innocents in Gaza and the West Bank? Why are they silent on the settlements in the illegally occupied territories? American jews need to decide where their first allegiance lies: israel or the US!
You cannot serve two masters especially when one is an arrogant megalomaniac and a war-mongering liar!
10
They both are megalomaniac and war mongering liars- to use your brilliant words-
These are good questions even though some of your descriptions of the silence of Jewish liberals are a bit overstated. But the answer to this, unfortunately, is that American Jews have a too uncritical attitude toward Israel, a veneration and appreciation of it that blinds them to the truth about Israel: that it has become a country of religious and political fanatics bent on their own self interest and aggrandizement, regardless of the consequences of their near neighbors the Palestinians. Another feature of the problem is that the task of supporting Netanyahoo like political policies has gotten American Jews involved in lying to themselves. For example, many American Jews swallowed whole Sharon's position that Arafat wasn't someone with whom they could negotiate with. And they get used to lying to themselves about things like that. It is of course nothing but a lie, because now that they've got Abbas, someone whom they cannot deny they can negotiate with, they are running to the hills in order to avoid the negotiating table. Israel under Netanyahu subverted the Obama - Kerry negotiations, and American Jews gave this a pass. There are too many American Jews lacking personal integrity, just as the entire Republican Party are swine who lie about global warming, lie that tax cuts were for everyone not just the rich, and all the rest. The Democratic Party needs to bring this country back to a sound way of thinking. Obama has made a fresh start after long kowtowing.
1
My two teen daughters informed us that they won't be joining their peers on a long-awaited trip to Israel in their senior year. If our family is typical, this generation isn't buying the traditional rationale for Israel's military aggression.
10
"It is clear that both [Israeli Ambassador to the US Ron Dermer] and Netanyahu prefer a Republican audience," writes Mr. Horowitz.
Evidently, so does Mr. Horowitz.
He begins and ends his piece, which purportedly describes a looming political crisis for Democrats (triggered by Netanyahu's triumph in Israel), with quotes from an infamous Republican operative Elliot Abrams--a zealous propagandist and apologist for, among other dreadful things, the Reagan administration's brutal, extra-legal policies in Central America.
Mr. Horowitz then goes on to fill in the middle with quotes from another infamous Republican operative, Ron Dermer, the Newt Gingrich apostle who renounced his US citizenship to become an ultra-rightist power player in Israel.
There may be a serious analysis to be written about storm clouds over the relationship between Democratic-leaning Americans (Jews and non-Jews alike) and the state of Israel under Netanyahu and other right-wing militarist elements. This--to an almost self-parodying degree-is not that analysis.
Evidently, so does Mr. Horowitz.
He begins and ends his piece, which purportedly describes a looming political crisis for Democrats (triggered by Netanyahu's triumph in Israel), with quotes from an infamous Republican operative Elliot Abrams--a zealous propagandist and apologist for, among other dreadful things, the Reagan administration's brutal, extra-legal policies in Central America.
Mr. Horowitz then goes on to fill in the middle with quotes from another infamous Republican operative, Ron Dermer, the Newt Gingrich apostle who renounced his US citizenship to become an ultra-rightist power player in Israel.
There may be a serious analysis to be written about storm clouds over the relationship between Democratic-leaning Americans (Jews and non-Jews alike) and the state of Israel under Netanyahu and other right-wing militarist elements. This--to an almost self-parodying degree-is not that analysis.
12
Eliot Abrams should be in jail for war crimes committed against the people of Central America, he lied to Congress and the American people. He admitted as much, if these are the friends of Israel, Israel as a Jewish state is doomed, which isn't a bad thing. So, Mr Netanyahu, thank you for finally changing the political equation here in America, the bestest country in the whole USA!
6
I see a number of commenters conflating being Jewish with unconditionally supporting Israel. For me, for a while, growing up, those two things were in fact the same. But the older I get (contrary to Elliott Abrams' opinion), the harder it is for me to support Israel's policies. I am also baffled by the Palestinian gift for taking every opportunity to miss every opportunity. I can't lend support to either side; it's a continuum, not a dichotomy. Israel builds settlements in the West Bank, Hamas lobs bombs. More bombs, more settlements; it's a vicious circle. The conflict is so tribal at this point, no one involved can see beyond a day or two ahead--and that's the problem. Regardless of which side people are on, there's no vision for the next generation, only for the next day. Golda Meir said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us." She never foresaw the same being true of Israel and its Jewish citizens as well.
34
There isn't a dime's worth of difference between Republicans and Democrats on Israel. Never has been, probably never will be. Hillary Clinton in a tough position? Please. The most we can expect from Hillary is a statement like this:
"Oh, you'd like to build more settlements? Well, if you must, I suppose you must. But I'd like you to know I don't think that's productive."
"Oh, you'd like to build more settlements? Well, if you must, I suppose you must. But I'd like you to know I don't think that's productive."
3
Can we be clear. Loathing Netanyahu and the Israeli government is NOT the same as anti-semitism.
6
I keep reading about how we 'give' Israel three billion in aide per year. True? If so why?
Israel is an economically robust democracy.
I can understand selling them military materiel, as we do with others: but 'giving' them billions annually? Why?
I want the road in front of my house resurfaced. I don't want my tax dollars given to Israel.
Israel is an economically robust democracy.
I can understand selling them military materiel, as we do with others: but 'giving' them billions annually? Why?
I want the road in front of my house resurfaced. I don't want my tax dollars given to Israel.
10
The Democrats may be wavering in their support of Israel, but if the GOP thought there was money to be made in Iran by arming them with nuclear warheads, it would be a done deal. So look out Israel if Iran finds a new oil field.
4
The Democrats have lost a lot of constituents of late. The Republican right has a creepy love affair with Israel based on fantastical religion and its strong connections with militarism. The problem for Israel was how it chose to fight Hamas in the last "war", which was to continue the scorched earth policy that protects its own soldiers at the cost of high civilian and infrastructure loss. Much like US drone use. We Democrats love Israel; we just hate continuous, unending warfare that destroys the civilian lives of pawns.
4
I am in my 60s and have been a supporter of Israel all my life. No more. If Israel chooses the course set by Netanyahu, and the election indicates that it has, then the US is correct in reassessing its alliance.
6
I'm so glad to hear Republicans telling Democratic Jews what we need to do and how we should feel. So I'll return the favor. This Democratic Jew can hear right-wing talking points a mile away.
5
Elliott Abrams? Seriously? This is a man who surreptitiously tried to sell long range missiles to the ayatollahs of Iran. He has NO credibility in national security affairs. Lol.
5
Netanyahu's problem is not only with liberal Jews, and it's not only with everyone else. His problem is that he confuses himself with Israel.
As a result, he sees anything and everything he does -- by way of political maneuvering, inciting bigotry, incessantly lying and backtracking on his lies, launching wars that kill far more people than the inciting incident, etc. -- as being justified by because he is Israel. Therefore, his goals must be Israel's goals.
This is not an uncommon characteristic of people with extreme narcissistic personality disorders. We, in fact, had a president like this. His name was Nixon.
As a result, he sees anything and everything he does -- by way of political maneuvering, inciting bigotry, incessantly lying and backtracking on his lies, launching wars that kill far more people than the inciting incident, etc. -- as being justified by because he is Israel. Therefore, his goals must be Israel's goals.
This is not an uncommon characteristic of people with extreme narcissistic personality disorders. We, in fact, had a president like this. His name was Nixon.
3
For Boehner to act the way he did and Netanyahu to follow-up, could there be some campaign financing in the offering?
1
This phrase "walk back" in reference to Netanyahu's lying is really, really irritating.
He was either lying during his campaign about a two state solution when he said it would never happen, or he's lying now when he says he's open to it.
Not only is he losing his Democratic support, he's lost Independents as well. Due to his arrogance and LYING!!
He was either lying during his campaign about a two state solution when he said it would never happen, or he's lying now when he says he's open to it.
Not only is he losing his Democratic support, he's lost Independents as well. Due to his arrogance and LYING!!
5
Natenyahu and the Israeli people will long regret Natenyahu's political shenanigans over the last few weeks. He's done substantial damage to the Israeli-American relationship that will take years to undo with the best of efforts, and he's cemented the vision of his obtuse and difficult persona into the minds of the American public. It's unfortunate as the Israeli people deserve better.
4
"But Jewish Democrats worry about the prospect of keeping liberal support for Israel a viable long-term position for a party base that is overwhelmingly non-Jewish and increasingly critical of the country."
You suggest that all "Jewish democrats" care more about support for Israel than they do for liberal politics? This Jewish democrat begs to differ. As you should very well know, many liberal, and all progressive Jews are fierce critics of the increasingly illiberal Jewish state.
You suggest that all "Jewish democrats" care more about support for Israel than they do for liberal politics? This Jewish democrat begs to differ. As you should very well know, many liberal, and all progressive Jews are fierce critics of the increasingly illiberal Jewish state.
2
The title refers to U.S. Democrats.
But a question at least as important is, "Do Israeli democrats and Israel have a future together?"
But a question at least as important is, "Do Israeli democrats and Israel have a future together?"
9
The current Israeli leadership bares a scary resemblance to a certain mustachioed corporal while his supporters in the GOP remind me of the SA. Apartheid, segregation or whatever you might want to call it are immoral whether it be here in the US or South Africa or Israel. Stuffing every last Palestinian into a few small areas looks a lot like the horror of Warsaw and the like. Once this yahoo said no to a two state solution the game was over. The US and western allies must immediately withdraw all support. Continued settlement building is spitting in the faces of those on the Palestinian who want peace and only further builds support for the bomb throwing nutcases. I suspect this is exactly what the Israeli strategy is. It will give them the excuse to implement their version of a final solution. The Israeli people need to wake up, stop drinking the kool-aid and throw these war mongers out on the street else wise there will be a constant state of war.
7
Just as one could support the US troops fighting in Iraq, without doing the same for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice and any, and all the other neocons for the Iraq war itself, why can't one still support Israel, and not Bibi. Keep in mind the Jewish State, and its right- wing PM are hardly mutually exclusive.
5
US and Israel seem to agree on one basic idea- keep the Arab world in check. This is what Nancy Pelosi means when she says Israel is vital to US security interests.
4
Israel has a gay right movement, and Minorities are treated with respect and dignity....I would like to poll the Arabs, Sudanese and Ethiopian immigrants first. people are not fools, the reason support for Israel is on the decline, is illustrated in Netanyahu's comments to rally support in a close election....hate for others...its that simple...its not about hand outs..minorities are treated like dogs in Israel and as much as the mainstream media tries to hide it..people know what is happening.
5
Why is there such a feeling of entitlement on the Israeli side?
As Abrams says: "Democrats have to address this"
Why do Democrats have to address a situation caused by the naked attempt by the Israeli Prime Minister to take advantage of the partisan politics in America.
He knew fully well that he was aligning with the Republicans by coming to address Congress (over the White House) and in fact he had aligned with them way back when he effectively endorsed Mitt Romney.
What has Bibi done to repair the relationship? He took a calculated decision to ignore the Democrats as he is thinking short term - at the expense of Israel's long term interests.
And, Democrats need to fix this? Why?
As Abrams says: "Democrats have to address this"
Why do Democrats have to address a situation caused by the naked attempt by the Israeli Prime Minister to take advantage of the partisan politics in America.
He knew fully well that he was aligning with the Republicans by coming to address Congress (over the White House) and in fact he had aligned with them way back when he effectively endorsed Mitt Romney.
What has Bibi done to repair the relationship? He took a calculated decision to ignore the Democrats as he is thinking short term - at the expense of Israel's long term interests.
And, Democrats need to fix this? Why?
19
That sentrce struck me as well, these deeply antagonizing moves by Netanyahu were done with the encouragement and cooperation of the far right both in the US and in Isreal. We may have no choice but to recognize the election, but democrats may want to reevaluate the cost of the alliance between the two countries.
People might start questioning why the US supports oppressive antidemocratic theocracies.
12
Why are Jewish Democrats and the Democratic Party supporting an undemocratic crazy state for Pals that will not abide by any agreements that they will agree to. Their State will just be another outpost for ISIS,Hamas,Hezballah and Iran. Israel isn't taking away Pal rights. It is Hamas and Abbas that are. 6% of our taxpayer money is used to fund terrorists and murderers of innocent Israeli civilians. They or there families receive this handout for there terrorisim. Not supporting the only democracy in the region will embolden Islamic Jihad and Israel's enemies and will lead to further death and destruction in the region. Are those the goals of Democrats?
4
Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. Why are you comparing it to ISIS, a terrorist cult? Because Israeli propaganda is pusing this connection?
And any $ going to Palestine (very little) is peanuts compared to the $3bln per year that goes to a rich, developed state , Israel.
Israel is the largest recipient of US aid, as well as all the arms and war tecnology which is provided free of charge to them, and which they experiment on the unarmed Palestinian people.
And any $ going to Palestine (very little) is peanuts compared to the $3bln per year that goes to a rich, developed state , Israel.
Israel is the largest recipient of US aid, as well as all the arms and war tecnology which is provided free of charge to them, and which they experiment on the unarmed Palestinian people.
Unfortunately, Hillary Clinton was both Lady Rothschild's and Aipac's favorite candidate in either party for launching their desired American proxy war for Israel for "regime change" in Iran in 2008. The American "Iron Lady," who could resist that? She's still just as totally bought and paid for as any Republican candidate bought by Adelson to make war for Israel on Iran. So, yeah, Hillary will be a great spokesperson for Israel and proxy war for Israel in 2016. Let's hope the Democratic Party, however, therefore DEFEATS her candidacy and nominates a candidate who is devoted first and foremost to the interests of America, rather than being a bought Manchurian Candidate for Israel.
5
The term "moral relativism" is a handy canard used to dismiss your opponent's argument without actually addressing its content.
8
Regardless of the current politics, the incontrovertible geopolitical truth is that Israel remains America's one true friend and ally in the Middle East. If the Democratic party allows its program to become associated with the anti-Israeli groups on the far left, it would be to their eventual electoral peril, and the Republicans would be happy to reap the reward. For that reason, I'm sure those in the Democratic center will make sure this remains a balanced debate.
3
With friends like Israel who needs enemies?
The last few days we have seen a series of unprecedented attacks on the Prime minister of Israel, based on lies. I encourage everyone to listen carefully to Netanyahu. He was never against Arab vote, but against busing them using foreign money, including from our State Department. He said that the current situation in the Middle East, and the current Palestinian leadership are not conducive to a creation of a Palestinian State which will become a terror base with Iranian support. He is right and the majority of Israelis who yearn for a real peace and reconciliation have agreed with this approach. It is amazing that while the Palestinians are the side who walked away each time a generous offer was on the table, the hypocritical West continues to blame Israel. These policies will result in a war, the buds of which are already visible. The open attempt of the Obama administration to topple Bibi backfired big time. The proud Israelis refused the dictate to vote for a wimp who would be submissive to the a US President, whose lack of understanding of Middle East realities have been proven time and again. Now Obama is outraged, and thinks that by pushing hard he will get somewhere. So while he is now supporting Asad, and negotiates with Iran, whose Ayatolla said just a few days ago that the goal is the destruction of the US, he expects a seller of tomatoes in the market in Tel Aviv who understand reality better than Obama to vote for Herzog. The American people deserves better.
8
you know i am so tired of this argument. those (both sides) people are real good at bashing each other over the head. they have been doing it for a couple thousand years now so this is just more of the same. i do not support either side. i am tired of america being expected to pick a side.
2
Sorry to have to inform you that the US has picked a side. It subsidizes Israel to the tune of $3bln a year of US taxpayers money.
And the "bashing each other" only started in 1948, when millions of Israelis took over Palestinian land.
And the "bashing each other" only started in 1948, when millions of Israelis took over Palestinian land.
Oh, no! So elements of blind American support for any and all Israeli policies is collapsing? Good!
When you drop the ethnonarcissism, you can hold Israel -- and the US, and any other nation-state for which you have affect or "loyalty" -- to the same ethical and legal standards as any other nation-state. And you'd do the same with any future Palestinian state. Just pretend you're dealing with, say, Norway or China or New Zealand. And proceed accordingly.
It's really not all that complicated once you clear out all the narcissism. It's the "once you clear out..." part that is so difficult. And not just with American Jews with respect for Israel -- this generalizes. And should be totally, blindingly obvious. But isn't.
When you drop the ethnonarcissism, you can hold Israel -- and the US, and any other nation-state for which you have affect or "loyalty" -- to the same ethical and legal standards as any other nation-state. And you'd do the same with any future Palestinian state. Just pretend you're dealing with, say, Norway or China or New Zealand. And proceed accordingly.
It's really not all that complicated once you clear out all the narcissism. It's the "once you clear out..." part that is so difficult. And not just with American Jews with respect for Israel -- this generalizes. And should be totally, blindingly obvious. But isn't.
9
It is so ironic that the extreme right wing, long the center of anti-semitism, is considered by Likud as Israel's ally in the U.S.
They don't seem to appreciate that support is triggered by the evangelical's interpretation of the Bible; namely that the Jews must be in total control of Jerusalem before the second coming of Christ; at which point they will be destroyed.
Those of us who have a love for the people there, think their right has put them in great danger. Trying for a "Greater Israel" is a fool's goal.
People like me will support Israel, but not their current government in its mad rush over the cliff.
They don't seem to appreciate that support is triggered by the evangelical's interpretation of the Bible; namely that the Jews must be in total control of Jerusalem before the second coming of Christ; at which point they will be destroyed.
Those of us who have a love for the people there, think their right has put them in great danger. Trying for a "Greater Israel" is a fool's goal.
People like me will support Israel, but not their current government in its mad rush over the cliff.
7
Elections have consequences. This was true for the Palestinians when they elected Hamas, it should be true for Israelis when they re-elected Netanyahu on a platform of racism and apartheid.
The truth has spilled out, and all the hasbara in the world cannot cover-up the facts. Israelis must face the realities of their neighborhood and grow up, the "sugar daddy" is going to slowly walk away.
This is not about Democrats or Republicans...it is about geographic and economic realities. Even if the Republicans were back in power, they could not reverse the inevitable direction of history.
The truth has spilled out, and all the hasbara in the world cannot cover-up the facts. Israelis must face the realities of their neighborhood and grow up, the "sugar daddy" is going to slowly walk away.
This is not about Democrats or Republicans...it is about geographic and economic realities. Even if the Republicans were back in power, they could not reverse the inevitable direction of history.
7
Yes but, only of Americans (especially Democrats) know the history of the reasons for the existence of the state of Israel and Zionism. The Republicans, on the other hand, are using Israel for political advantage from their ignorant right wing base.
2
“I think the progressive case for Israel is an easy case to make,” he went on. “We’re the only country that’s had a chief justice of the Supreme Court, a speaker of the Knesset and a prime minister who were women. You have gay rights in Israel. You have a gay-pride parade in Tel Aviv, and gays all around the region are strung up in public squares. And then you have respect for minority rights in Israel.”
Does all of the above justify occupation of Palestinian lands, illegal settlements and apartheid policies ?
Does all of the above justify occupation of Palestinian lands, illegal settlements and apartheid policies ?
6
I am one who has always supported Israel and recognize it has real enemies.
However, like President Obama I am sure, I am exasperated that fear has overcome reason there. There is no way one can negotiate with,or for, a people that does not trust anyone. If they do not trust the 2 time elected President of the American people, one who have stood by them, they will not trust anyone. There would be nothing the Palestinians, Iranians or anyone else can offer or say that they will believe. There will always be some hidden desire against Israel and nuclear weapons the inspectors cannot find. They are not negotiating partners but have become another unstable presence in the region with insatiable demands for reassurance upon everyone else in the world. If that were not so, Netanyahu would not have denounced a nuclear deal that had not even been made yet.
Netanyahu said Saddam had usable WMDs to help the Republicans get us into the war they wanted in Iraq. What was the inevitable result? More Anti-Americanism, more successful terrorist appeals, and more Iranian influence in Iraq and elsewhere. Listening to Netanyahu and the usual suspects wail about Iranian influence in the region is like listening to the man who killed his parents and then demanded leniency from the court on the grounds that he was an orphan.
Netanyahu and those who agree with him have turned Israel into an orphan.
However, like President Obama I am sure, I am exasperated that fear has overcome reason there. There is no way one can negotiate with,or for, a people that does not trust anyone. If they do not trust the 2 time elected President of the American people, one who have stood by them, they will not trust anyone. There would be nothing the Palestinians, Iranians or anyone else can offer or say that they will believe. There will always be some hidden desire against Israel and nuclear weapons the inspectors cannot find. They are not negotiating partners but have become another unstable presence in the region with insatiable demands for reassurance upon everyone else in the world. If that were not so, Netanyahu would not have denounced a nuclear deal that had not even been made yet.
Netanyahu said Saddam had usable WMDs to help the Republicans get us into the war they wanted in Iraq. What was the inevitable result? More Anti-Americanism, more successful terrorist appeals, and more Iranian influence in Iraq and elsewhere. Listening to Netanyahu and the usual suspects wail about Iranian influence in the region is like listening to the man who killed his parents and then demanded leniency from the court on the grounds that he was an orphan.
Netanyahu and those who agree with him have turned Israel into an orphan.
33
Ariel Sharon was in charge at the time.
A week before "Shock & Awe", his staged a press conference to assure the world that Israel had no part in the impending fiasco.
Yet, just days after we took Baghdad, Israeli advisors came to train us in interrogation
A week before "Shock & Awe", his staged a press conference to assure the world that Israel had no part in the impending fiasco.
Yet, just days after we took Baghdad, Israeli advisors came to train us in interrogation
To clarify: I meant to say that the Israelis are trying to force people to try to prove a negative: "We do not want to destroy Israel" and "We do not have nuclear weapons to do it with, hidden somewhere that no one else can find" Netanyahu can just keep saying he doesn't believe the Iranians, or whomever, just as rightwingers still insist that Saddam had WMDs but that he altruistically gave them to some other dictator to hold for him awhile. These people say the problem is that Obama pulled out instead of going to get the people that had Saddam's WMDs.
When you find yourself talking to such people all you can do is quit talking to such people. And I am afraid that the Israelis now look like such people.
When you find yourself talking to such people all you can do is quit talking to such people. And I am afraid that the Israelis now look like such people.
I'd say six million dead and a world community whose written and oral guarantees have proved time and again not to be worth the paper they are printed on or the air expended on.
And since you think you are qualified to psychoanalyze the mind-set of Israel, what is your prognosis for the Palestinian Arabs who have rejected EVERY peace proposal ever offered them, no matter how generous and far-reaching, whether by centrist Israeli governments, Labor governments, plans offered by Democratic US presidents, Republican US presidents, the UN in 1947, the League of Nations in 1937 ... And when they were given a chance to show the world what they could do with the vote and control over their own territories as a dress rehearsal for their own state, chose an Islamist terror group in Gaza and a dictatorial kleptocracy in the West Bank, while continuing to indoctrinate their people with antisemitic propaganda and schooling. Or is it only Israel that you find so alienating? And if so, it would be quite fascinating to psychoanalyze your need to rip apart Israel but give the Palestinians a free pass.
And since you think you are qualified to psychoanalyze the mind-set of Israel, what is your prognosis for the Palestinian Arabs who have rejected EVERY peace proposal ever offered them, no matter how generous and far-reaching, whether by centrist Israeli governments, Labor governments, plans offered by Democratic US presidents, Republican US presidents, the UN in 1947, the League of Nations in 1937 ... And when they were given a chance to show the world what they could do with the vote and control over their own territories as a dress rehearsal for their own state, chose an Islamist terror group in Gaza and a dictatorial kleptocracy in the West Bank, while continuing to indoctrinate their people with antisemitic propaganda and schooling. Or is it only Israel that you find so alienating? And if so, it would be quite fascinating to psychoanalyze your need to rip apart Israel but give the Palestinians a free pass.
2
Dermer and Abrams just sound like partisan republicans. They talk about Israel being a democracy at at time the right wing is getting stronger and stronger and starting to intimidate people. They ignore the occupation and how horribly they treat the Palestinians. They provoke Hamas continually hoping for a few rockets to give them an excuse to 'mow the lawn' again, which means killing a few thousand men, women and children adn destroying more infrastructure and homes.
26
The question behind the question "Do the Democrats and Israel Have a Future?" is Does Israel Have a Future if it Continues on Its Current Path?
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee's public relations campaign strategy based upon "whatever" is not going to help.
Mr. Dermer's calling people "moral idiots" when they criticize Israeli actions is going to hurt.
Israel's problem is that it has given up the moral high ground that it worked hard to gain.
Occupied land, settlements, apartheid-like treatment of Arabs, using heavy weapons supplied by allies to kill rioting Palestinians, attempting to affect the outcome of a US presidential election, violating diplomatic protocols, intervening in US foreign policy, refusing to negotiate a Two-State solution, vowing to build more settlements on occupied land, re-electing Prime Minister Netanyahu after he has just vowed to do these things - that is not going to help.
The real questions are where are Israelis taking themselves by continuing down this path and why would their principal ally want to accompany them when their leader seems intent on provoking a war?
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee's public relations campaign strategy based upon "whatever" is not going to help.
Mr. Dermer's calling people "moral idiots" when they criticize Israeli actions is going to hurt.
Israel's problem is that it has given up the moral high ground that it worked hard to gain.
Occupied land, settlements, apartheid-like treatment of Arabs, using heavy weapons supplied by allies to kill rioting Palestinians, attempting to affect the outcome of a US presidential election, violating diplomatic protocols, intervening in US foreign policy, refusing to negotiate a Two-State solution, vowing to build more settlements on occupied land, re-electing Prime Minister Netanyahu after he has just vowed to do these things - that is not going to help.
The real questions are where are Israelis taking themselves by continuing down this path and why would their principal ally want to accompany them when their leader seems intent on provoking a war?
39
Demilitarize Palestine and Hamas, recognize Israel as a Jewish State and then the parties can talk. Not now. Way too dangerous for Israel.
2
The Democrats will through 2016 because Hillary has to win Florida to become president, and to win Florida, she cannot alienate the Jewish vote, which could easily turn to someone like Marco Rubio.
After the election and if Hillary wins, she has the all-clear to say what she really thinks - all-out support for the creation of the Palestinian state, whether or not it jeopardizes Israel's security.
After the election and if Hillary wins, she has the all-clear to say what she really thinks - all-out support for the creation of the Palestinian state, whether or not it jeopardizes Israel's security.
1
HRC would never offend AIPAC, nor Bibi..
As much as I'd love to see the Democrats break with the increasingly far-right Israeli government (and the near-apartheid state it's created), I am skeptical that such a proposition is anything more than the media narrative du jour.
While it opens one up to charges of conspiracy theorizing (or worse) the influence of AIPAC in our Congress is real and broad. And it influences both parties. Senator Schumer, as a case in point, might as well be the Senator from Israel, instead of New York.
And the other reason I'm skeptical is because the aid we give Israel every year (inexplicable, given that they are a developed country not in need of aid) is essentially a boondoggle that is essentially corporate welfare for our defense sector. There's no way Congress is turning off that spigot.
It comes down to money, as with most things in Washington. Lots of monied interests have a stake in the US-Israel status quo, where the client state wags the superpower. I'd be pleasantly surprised if that dynamic changes, but I'm not holding my breath.
While it opens one up to charges of conspiracy theorizing (or worse) the influence of AIPAC in our Congress is real and broad. And it influences both parties. Senator Schumer, as a case in point, might as well be the Senator from Israel, instead of New York.
And the other reason I'm skeptical is because the aid we give Israel every year (inexplicable, given that they are a developed country not in need of aid) is essentially a boondoggle that is essentially corporate welfare for our defense sector. There's no way Congress is turning off that spigot.
It comes down to money, as with most things in Washington. Lots of monied interests have a stake in the US-Israel status quo, where the client state wags the superpower. I'd be pleasantly surprised if that dynamic changes, but I'm not holding my breath.
18
You don't give any reason why it's Israel that is the recipient. There are other countries in the world, doncha know.
Netanyahu's despicable behavior two weeks prior to the election, including his racist statements about Arabs and his blatant lying will only serve increase antisemitisim. Shame on that man.
26
I suspect that most Democrats are no more supportive of Netanyahu than they would be of David Duke.
27
You may be right. But whereas Democrats are happy to criticize Duke in public (as do virtually all Republicans), they won't say an unkind word about Bibi in earshot of anyone except immediate family. That is all that matters.
Jason Horowitz believes liberal criticism of Israel is ascendant "in large part because [Ambassador] Dermer and his boss seem to have aligned themselves with Obama’s Republican enemies."
Could the problem go beyond Beltway spin and have to do with actual Israeli policies? Could the increasing disenchantment have to do with awareness of the realities of military occupation and Arab Israelis' 2nd class status, both of which contradict liberal values?
It's telling that the writer waxes nostalgic for the halcyon days of Ambassador Michael Oren, a right-winger whose policies towards the occupied territories are identical to Netanyahu's. The concern is whether Israel is perceived positively -- not whether its policies are perceived accurately.
But we don't hear from actual progressives, whether Jew or non-Jew, who are understandably outraged at the ongoing dispossession of Palestinians.
Instead, we just hear about weirdos who disrupt pro-Israel events.
Could the problem go beyond Beltway spin and have to do with actual Israeli policies? Could the increasing disenchantment have to do with awareness of the realities of military occupation and Arab Israelis' 2nd class status, both of which contradict liberal values?
It's telling that the writer waxes nostalgic for the halcyon days of Ambassador Michael Oren, a right-winger whose policies towards the occupied territories are identical to Netanyahu's. The concern is whether Israel is perceived positively -- not whether its policies are perceived accurately.
But we don't hear from actual progressives, whether Jew or non-Jew, who are understandably outraged at the ongoing dispossession of Palestinians.
Instead, we just hear about weirdos who disrupt pro-Israel events.
27
The legendary Wisdom of Solomon runs in the blood of Israeli veins ,yet they can't seem to employ that sagacity in service to solutions for a peaceful, prosperous coexistence with their Palestinian neighbors.
Certainly israel is vulnerable, surrounded by hostility and constant threats of violence and annihilation, but increased animus and bellicosity does not contribute to long term peace and tranquility. It only perpetuates conflict and suffering in a endless cycle.
I won't suggest for a moment I have the solution to a safer, more peaceful future for Israel and it's Middle Eastern neighbors ,but I don't live there nor does the Wisdom of Solomon run through my veins.
Certainly israel is vulnerable, surrounded by hostility and constant threats of violence and annihilation, but increased animus and bellicosity does not contribute to long term peace and tranquility. It only perpetuates conflict and suffering in a endless cycle.
I won't suggest for a moment I have the solution to a safer, more peaceful future for Israel and it's Middle Eastern neighbors ,but I don't live there nor does the Wisdom of Solomon run through my veins.
4
While Mr. Netanyahu has made statements which this paper, perhaps Mr. Obama, and many of the responses here seem to believe are racist ( I do not believe such nonsense at all -- he merely clarified reality), and while those statements leads some to the conclusion that Mr. Netanyahu has switched alliance to the Republican party, what is unsaid here is the switch that the Democratic Party, Mr. Obama, and many of the responses clearly indicate. The democrats, Mr. Obama, and many of the readers' responses more than suggest that they have switch their alliance to helping terrorists.
9
Israel is simultaneously the most progressive country in the Middle East and an obstacle to progress outside and, recently, inside its borders.
In the 60's and 70's liberalism in this country shifted from primarily economic and civil liberties issues to those concerning civil rights, the Viet Nam War, and gender. The utopian moralistic strain in America expanded concerns to a sort of one-world, we-are-all-brothers-and-sisters paradigm, oblivious to the conflict between that notion and the problem posed by a belief in all-cultures-deserve-equal-respect-and admiration attitude when other cultures didn't share the premise. Other societies, especially in the Third World, became models to praise, if not emulate, as reaction to the Viet Nam War turned American inward-directed anger into outward-directed hope.
Israel is now caught up in the politics of the American dynamic. While in terms of civil rights, civil liberties, gender, and economic issues, Israel is clearly more progressive than any other regional country, it is held to an entirely different and higher standard than the others by American progressives, who still largely function in the world of 70's anti-imperialist politics.
While Netanyahu seems to have hired speech writers from Hamas and Rush Limbaugh, and much of what he advocates is despicable, the fact that there are a hundred times the Times Comments critical of Israel as of any other other country is not coincidental, nor is the hate in many of them.
In the 60's and 70's liberalism in this country shifted from primarily economic and civil liberties issues to those concerning civil rights, the Viet Nam War, and gender. The utopian moralistic strain in America expanded concerns to a sort of one-world, we-are-all-brothers-and-sisters paradigm, oblivious to the conflict between that notion and the problem posed by a belief in all-cultures-deserve-equal-respect-and admiration attitude when other cultures didn't share the premise. Other societies, especially in the Third World, became models to praise, if not emulate, as reaction to the Viet Nam War turned American inward-directed anger into outward-directed hope.
Israel is now caught up in the politics of the American dynamic. While in terms of civil rights, civil liberties, gender, and economic issues, Israel is clearly more progressive than any other regional country, it is held to an entirely different and higher standard than the others by American progressives, who still largely function in the world of 70's anti-imperialist politics.
While Netanyahu seems to have hired speech writers from Hamas and Rush Limbaugh, and much of what he advocates is despicable, the fact that there are a hundred times the Times Comments critical of Israel as of any other other country is not coincidental, nor is the hate in many of them.
8
The problem is not just Israel but worldwide conservatives are driving a wedge between the U.S. and our allies and this can be seen with Bibi's unholy alliance with the Republican party, the U.K. rushing into the arms of China and Putin swinging Russia away from the West into some type of aggressive neo Soviet Union.
4
Look it is clear what game the Republicans and Netanyahu are playing. The Republican politicians want money, plain and simple. Netanyahu wants a blank check to fulfill his territorial ambitions.
There is data that ~40% + of money that funds Democratic politicians in various elections comes from Jewish supporters, that is the central thing the Republicans see, and with the increasing polarization of rich and poor more generally that they initiated, they see an opportunity to capture a chunk of this money given that richer Jewish Americans tend to be more hawkish on Israel. Obviously money has only become more important in the political process, so this is a big strategic win for them. That is why we gradually moved from "Christian" to "Judeo-Christian" nation.
Paradoxically, perhaps the thing that could most threaten this opportunity, break the political consensus, is a liberal turn in some key middle eastern country, a turn that would be enough to break the narrative of religious enmity, backwardness etc that the conservatives on this side use to say there is nothing to gain from rapprochement. That is why Netanyahu was scared out of his pants by the Arab Spring and by Obama's Iran negotiation. It is still less likely than not but today the FM of Israel is Avidgor Liebermann and that of Iran is Javad Zarif. We ll see.
There is data that ~40% + of money that funds Democratic politicians in various elections comes from Jewish supporters, that is the central thing the Republicans see, and with the increasing polarization of rich and poor more generally that they initiated, they see an opportunity to capture a chunk of this money given that richer Jewish Americans tend to be more hawkish on Israel. Obviously money has only become more important in the political process, so this is a big strategic win for them. That is why we gradually moved from "Christian" to "Judeo-Christian" nation.
Paradoxically, perhaps the thing that could most threaten this opportunity, break the political consensus, is a liberal turn in some key middle eastern country, a turn that would be enough to break the narrative of religious enmity, backwardness etc that the conservatives on this side use to say there is nothing to gain from rapprochement. That is why Netanyahu was scared out of his pants by the Arab Spring and by Obama's Iran negotiation. It is still less likely than not but today the FM of Israel is Avidgor Liebermann and that of Iran is Javad Zarif. We ll see.
9
I do not understand why Ron Dermer has not been thrown out of the country for his partisan activities.
And, believe me, the Republicans are laughing at Obama because he has not had the guts to do so.
And, believe me, the Republicans are laughing at Obama because he has not had the guts to do so.
14
No more money for Israel until it acts in accordance with our fundamental values. When everyone who lives there can vote and is guaranteed their civil rights and due process of law they will deserve our support. Until then, we should shun them as we would shun any other repressive nation.
18
Every citizen in Israel can vote. There are many Arabs in the Israeli Parliament.
Netanyahu knew Arabs aren't his supporters and urged his constituency to vote BECAUSE Arab votes count...so it is a pure Democracy
Netanyahu knew Arabs aren't his supporters and urged his constituency to vote BECAUSE Arab votes count...so it is a pure Democracy
11
Can we, at the same time, decree that there will be no more incitement against Jews or terrorist attacks against Israelis, oh wise one?
1
Since 1967, there has been de facto one state between the river and the sea, Israel. One third of the population of this state has no right to vote and has no civil or economic rights. Those are the non-Jews in Gaza and the West Bank.
Israel's disingenuous conduct in not formally annexing Gaza and the West Bank does not change this reality. An occupation and colonization project going on 50 years is de facto an annexation.
Israel's disingenuous conduct in not formally annexing Gaza and the West Bank does not change this reality. An occupation and colonization project going on 50 years is de facto an annexation.
1
As a Jewish democrat who supports Netanyahu on Iran, and nothing else, I am equally concerned for Israel and for the Democratic Party. I am seriously concerned about the fact that Clinton must play a balancing act between the growing disenchantment which may soon be hostility of the democrats towards Israel and the Jews who she must count on in a pinch. It forces her into an extremely difficult balancing act because she will lose votes either way.
In the election of 2000 three matters lost the Presidency. 1. Nader 2. The Butterfly Ballot and 3. Janet Renos order to have Elian Gonzalez forcibly removed from fis relates' house aand sent back to Cuba. If only one of those things were not in the picture, we would not have had Bush and not have Alito and Roberts, Citizen's United, the D.C. gun prohibition and all of the nonsens which followed. All because Janet Reno could notwait until after the Election.
I don't want a repeat. the Democratic Party cannot stand the risk of losing Florida in 2016. It cannot allow the republicans to pick of core pieces of its constituency by a dramatic change in its policies. All of Obama's legacy is on the line and so is our national medical insurance plan. If jews sense that Israel is going to be dragged out of its comfortable position be the administration, they will follow the Cuban example and Florida could easily be lost.
In the election of 2000 three matters lost the Presidency. 1. Nader 2. The Butterfly Ballot and 3. Janet Renos order to have Elian Gonzalez forcibly removed from fis relates' house aand sent back to Cuba. If only one of those things were not in the picture, we would not have had Bush and not have Alito and Roberts, Citizen's United, the D.C. gun prohibition and all of the nonsens which followed. All because Janet Reno could notwait until after the Election.
I don't want a repeat. the Democratic Party cannot stand the risk of losing Florida in 2016. It cannot allow the republicans to pick of core pieces of its constituency by a dramatic change in its policies. All of Obama's legacy is on the line and so is our national medical insurance plan. If jews sense that Israel is going to be dragged out of its comfortable position be the administration, they will follow the Cuban example and Florida could easily be lost.
6
Are you speaking of AMERICAN Jews? Well, I've never seen the loyalty issue presented so clearly before.
There is no future with this democract until we see a more moderate, peaceful government in Isreal, which the majority of Isrealis don't want. Yet, they want our aid and support that disturbingly, is used to build more illegal settlements and kill Palestinian women and children. When some terrorist from hamas launches a rocket that lands harmlessly in some Isreal field, the Isrealis disproportionately retaliate by destroying neighborhoods and killing countless innocent women and children, all with US tax dollars. Besides their oppression and land grabs from the Palestinians, they also discriminate against their own Arab citizens complaining that they vote in droves. Isreal reminds me of South Africa's apartheid. Although I love the Jewish people, I disdain their right wing, racist and war mongering government.
29
The politics of religious identity are incompatible with factual humanism. Strict separation of fact based governance from religious fiction based national identity is an absolute requirement for peaceful civilization now and in the future.
Israel as a religious state is as contradictory to the enlightenment principles of America's foundation and success as are the various states that base governance on Islam. American compassion for jews who suffered exclusion and oppression and genocide based on their religion and/or ethnic identity must not cloud our understanding that the mythologies of revelation and prophecy are lingering infections of the global body politic. Humanity scientifically, historically, and rationally educated to recognize and reject the frauds of religion must apply antiseptic to religious nationalism wherever it occurs. We should not condone, let alone support, any religious state.
Israel as a religious state is as contradictory to the enlightenment principles of America's foundation and success as are the various states that base governance on Islam. American compassion for jews who suffered exclusion and oppression and genocide based on their religion and/or ethnic identity must not cloud our understanding that the mythologies of revelation and prophecy are lingering infections of the global body politic. Humanity scientifically, historically, and rationally educated to recognize and reject the frauds of religion must apply antiseptic to religious nationalism wherever it occurs. We should not condone, let alone support, any religious state.
18
Please show me one country on earth that governs with "factual humanism".
We don't. Our irrationalities are not exclusively religious but they are there.
People who won't eat GMO food, Anti vaxerrs , the list goes on. Everywhere.
We don't. Our irrationalities are not exclusively religious but they are there.
People who won't eat GMO food, Anti vaxerrs , the list goes on. Everywhere.
I will never understand why a political state the size of Haiti and possessing a population that constitutes one one thousandth of one percent of the world's population is allowed to consume such a disproportionate amount of world media attention, flaunt the international standards governing nuclear regulation, and dictate the Middle East security concerns of the United States of America.
40
Correction: Israel's population is about one one-thousandth (1/1,000th) of the world's population. Not 1/1,000th of 1% (1/100th) of the world's population.
But even this 2 order of magnitude (100-fold) mis-representation does not alter the point being made.
But even this 2 order of magnitude (100-fold) mis-representation does not alter the point being made.
Read the bible.
What I am amazed at is the denial exhibited by Michael Dermer and other Israelis and Jews of the backlash and reversal of the traditional support of Israel by most Americans, Republican or Democrat. It may be difficult but until Israelis and Jews get the point - that the sentence "I no longer support Israel because of the war crimes, atrocities, and apartheid treatment of Palestinians" is real and genuinely felt - nothing will help them dig out of the hole they are in. Dermer must be delusional if he honestly thinks that college campuses care if gays are accepted in Israel. And it is not just blacks and Hispanics but all young people who do not see Israel as the victim of its neighbors. Look in the mirror, Israelis and your supporters, before it's too late. Stop denying the reality of Israel in 2015, not 1950.
24
Jews and by extension the Jewish State, Israel, have always encountered animosity.
This is no different.
The left in Israel is finished. This election was its last hurrah.
The future belongs to those who will refuse to be intimidated by polling of American college students, articles and TV voices in liberal media ( ie. most media) people like Obama and those that run the EU, the lands that not only murdered their Jews but are now being attacked by Muslim terrorists.
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. It has made a home for our people in our ancestral lands.
There will not be any peace treaty with those who wish us dead and who refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. That is a no brainer. Anyone who envisions peace with such people is in total denial. At most they will have Gaza to use as their base to attack us. We will never give them any other land after what they have done with it to date.
Israel will be around, strong and proud, long after all the naysayers both in the Jewish community and elsewhere are long gone.
This is no different.
The left in Israel is finished. This election was its last hurrah.
The future belongs to those who will refuse to be intimidated by polling of American college students, articles and TV voices in liberal media ( ie. most media) people like Obama and those that run the EU, the lands that not only murdered their Jews but are now being attacked by Muslim terrorists.
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people. It has made a home for our people in our ancestral lands.
There will not be any peace treaty with those who wish us dead and who refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. That is a no brainer. Anyone who envisions peace with such people is in total denial. At most they will have Gaza to use as their base to attack us. We will never give them any other land after what they have done with it to date.
Israel will be around, strong and proud, long after all the naysayers both in the Jewish community and elsewhere are long gone.
22
Stop raiding my wallet to fund the apartheid nation that is Israel.
25
Others, as you say, may wish 'you' dead. But looking at reality, I see that the most dead, by far, are Palestinians.
Tragedy always befalls the Jews when they turn on one another. And it has always been people like this that at first cheer their supposed victory over those not Jewish enough or fanatical enough for their taste. But soon enough, as we are weakened by division and have alienated those who could have been our friends, the tragedy befalls us all.
I'm struck by the fact that the likes for comments CRITICAL of Netanyahu and Israeli racism, condescension toward Obama, and duplicity far outweigh the likes in support of Bibi. Politicians take note. We're done. Stop supporting racism and oppression both in Israel and at home.
22
Is that the same Elliot Abrams of central american death squad and Iran-Contra fame? Who cares what that guy thinks?
Also, one cant help but wonder if Netanyahu would treat a white president this way.
Also, one cant help but wonder if Netanyahu would treat a white president this way.
35
For the GOP and their Evangelical supporters Bibi is governor of our 51st state, which will get their GOP support no matter what Bibi does as he illegally takes more and more property away from Palestinians in order to enlarge that 51st state.
20
The title of this piece should be "Republicans Question Whether the Democrats and Israel Have a Future Together." Elliot Abrams and Ron Dermer, both partisan Republicans, are quoted at length, no Democrats, when the piece purports to be whether Democrats will remain supporters of Israel. It is hardly surprising that Abrams and Dermer would love for Democrats to be perceived as anti-Israel.
20
The US has supported Israel since the 40s and how has that support benefited the US? Obama changed the game with Cuba since the previous methods weren't improving things. Now is the time to change the game with Israel (and the rest of the Middle East and Africa). Tell them all to take a flying leap. If the US Jews have such a great allegiance to Israel, perhaps they should move there. After 50 years, as an adult, of watching the ongoing fiascoes in the Middle East, I'm truly fed up with Israel and our Congress.
24
I used to be pro-Israel. I read Exodus, danced the hora and cheered when Israel won a short war. I'm 64. I do not support Israel's current policies toward the Palestinians as they appear to be an attempt at slow genocide. If any other country besides Israel did what it is doing to a subjugated population the US would be proposing sanctions. Israel deserves sanctions now. Hopefully, the US will return to balance after a few more elections that I trust Republicans will lose.
26
I think it's clear that liberal Democrats have not turned away from Israel. It is Israel who has turned its back not he Democratic Party.
15
Thanks NYT for a thoughtful article. I find it interesting how many "groups" seem to view the thinking of the American voters as being simplistic and polarized. Perhaps that is true, however I don't find that to be the case in my thinking. I am not either pro Israel vs pro Palestine. Nor am I "anti Israel"
Rather, I simply question how and why the American taxpayer should continue to support Israel when it behaves as a rouge bully nation. Sorry, all the hatred and history is no longer relevant in my thinking. Looking at how Israel has behaved as a nation, how its re-elected leader has disrespected the American President, and therefore has disrespected me as an American, how the current policies display hatred, bigotry, and aggression without justification, I can no longer see why American should continue to consider Israel a "friend."
It is a HUGE mistake for Israel to continue to simply assume that America will continue to support massive projects such as the Iron Dome, and other examples of military and foreign aid. I do not agree with Israel's CURRENT actions and therefore I call for ALL current and future foreign aid to stop until Israel begins to act like a friend, and earns our friendship.
It is not a question folks. I am already in touch with my elected representatives calling upon them to stop all aid to Israel.
Rather, I simply question how and why the American taxpayer should continue to support Israel when it behaves as a rouge bully nation. Sorry, all the hatred and history is no longer relevant in my thinking. Looking at how Israel has behaved as a nation, how its re-elected leader has disrespected the American President, and therefore has disrespected me as an American, how the current policies display hatred, bigotry, and aggression without justification, I can no longer see why American should continue to consider Israel a "friend."
It is a HUGE mistake for Israel to continue to simply assume that America will continue to support massive projects such as the Iron Dome, and other examples of military and foreign aid. I do not agree with Israel's CURRENT actions and therefore I call for ALL current and future foreign aid to stop until Israel begins to act like a friend, and earns our friendship.
It is not a question folks. I am already in touch with my elected representatives calling upon them to stop all aid to Israel.
12
The unholy alliance between the US and Israel is much more solid than it may appear. Held firmly together by their shared desire to control the middle east, under the guise of protecting Israel ( the real military powerhouse of the middle east), reported rifts between their governments are highly overdramatized by the media.
All the political machinations conveyed in the article belie the fact that the US government is essentially beholden to Israel through its solid voting bloc here.
No presidential candidate in the US will be able to be elected without the Jewish vote, which is typically, relatively uniform. Without kowtowing to Israel any candidate will have a significant problem.
Its not really about the Democrats. Clinton is a solid supporter of Israel, as much as any republican, though republicans might appeal more to Israel because they are enamored with war and would like to attack their next make believe villain Iran.
We are likely to be dragged into war with Iran no matter who is elected president. With Netanyahu re elected, the republicans have added another loud war hawk to our congress. A war hawk who will help inspire his voting bloc to pressure our government to fight for another useless cause.
All the political machinations conveyed in the article belie the fact that the US government is essentially beholden to Israel through its solid voting bloc here.
No presidential candidate in the US will be able to be elected without the Jewish vote, which is typically, relatively uniform. Without kowtowing to Israel any candidate will have a significant problem.
Its not really about the Democrats. Clinton is a solid supporter of Israel, as much as any republican, though republicans might appeal more to Israel because they are enamored with war and would like to attack their next make believe villain Iran.
We are likely to be dragged into war with Iran no matter who is elected president. With Netanyahu re elected, the republicans have added another loud war hawk to our congress. A war hawk who will help inspire his voting bloc to pressure our government to fight for another useless cause.
8
We like our handouts to go to people in need... and for them to be appreciative.
Israeli's are free to vote for whom they choose. And here in the US we are free to reassess how we allocate our foreign aid. I hope that discussion will occur.
Israeli's are free to vote for whom they choose. And here in the US we are free to reassess how we allocate our foreign aid. I hope that discussion will occur.
22
As a non-Jew, I support a democratic Israel - to the tune of millions of my tax dollars - a land where all are equal. What is happening now, is a theocracy which I cannot support. It's bad enough that the Haredi harass women and those who are not uber-observant (word chosen deliberately), but now the newly elected Netanyahu wants to deprive non-Jewish citizens of Israel of their rights. That I cannot support.
16
As far as future, the occupation isn't a tolerable arrangement for anyone and has to end at some point or Israel will be an isolated kingdom that will eventually die from within.
On the other hand the Foreign policy of the US under both Democrats and Republicans has been a complete failure in the ME and if I was either a left or right leaning citizen of Israel I would be very afraid of depending on the US.
We supported the destabilization of both Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. Yemen has fallen apart with massive US support. We are likely to leave Afghanistan in civil conflict only to be retaken by radical forces with ties to both Iran and Pakistan. We are likely to end sanctions with Iran which will allow them to buy lots of conventional weapons to spread throughout the ME to bolster Militias to fight Sunni's and Israel.
If I was an Israeli who supported ending the settlements, occupation and allowing the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to form their own State I still would not depend on either Democrats or Republicans for Israeli's long term existence. The US has done nothing good in the region for years other than spread money around to multiple sides of different conflicts.
On the other hand the Foreign policy of the US under both Democrats and Republicans has been a complete failure in the ME and if I was either a left or right leaning citizen of Israel I would be very afraid of depending on the US.
We supported the destabilization of both Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. Yemen has fallen apart with massive US support. We are likely to leave Afghanistan in civil conflict only to be retaken by radical forces with ties to both Iran and Pakistan. We are likely to end sanctions with Iran which will allow them to buy lots of conventional weapons to spread throughout the ME to bolster Militias to fight Sunni's and Israel.
If I was an Israeli who supported ending the settlements, occupation and allowing the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to form their own State I still would not depend on either Democrats or Republicans for Israeli's long term existence. The US has done nothing good in the region for years other than spread money around to multiple sides of different conflicts.
3
The behavior of Netanyahu is no worse than that of Yitzhak Shamir, who, after George H W Bush had massively helped Israel by weakening Saddam Hussein, stabbed him in the back with the help of Democrats in Congress, who pushed through on a veto override margin, low-interest loans for West Bank settlements by Jewish immigrants.
The only thing that is new here is with whom the Israeli government is fighting. They are not fighting a boring old Republican president that the press wishes would lose or disappear. They are fighting an exciting new progressive Democrat, the first black president and the first to pass a nearly universal healthcare scheme. That is not acceptable to the liberal Jewish people who make up such a big part of the metropolitan news media. Obama deserves better. It is for that, not discriminating against Arab Israelis, that Netanyahu cannot be forgiven. And this is why suddenly there is a loud squawk while an Israeli leader behaves no worse than Begin or Shamir.
The only thing that is new here is with whom the Israeli government is fighting. They are not fighting a boring old Republican president that the press wishes would lose or disappear. They are fighting an exciting new progressive Democrat, the first black president and the first to pass a nearly universal healthcare scheme. That is not acceptable to the liberal Jewish people who make up such a big part of the metropolitan news media. Obama deserves better. It is for that, not discriminating against Arab Israelis, that Netanyahu cannot be forgiven. And this is why suddenly there is a loud squawk while an Israeli leader behaves no worse than Begin or Shamir.
8
I agree, although you may have been trying to make a different point.
Netanyahu is but the last in a long line of Israeli PMs whose agenda was an expansionist colonization of the 'disputed' territories. And please, let's not hear again about how Israel gave back the Sinai (a desert unfit for human life) and Gaza (too expensive a military burden), when the real prize was the West Bank.
Netanyahu is just the first to say it openly, and I might admire his honesty if he had been saying that from the beginning instead of stringing everybody along with lies.
Netanyahu is but the last in a long line of Israeli PMs whose agenda was an expansionist colonization of the 'disputed' territories. And please, let's not hear again about how Israel gave back the Sinai (a desert unfit for human life) and Gaza (too expensive a military burden), when the real prize was the West Bank.
Netanyahu is just the first to say it openly, and I might admire his honesty if he had been saying that from the beginning instead of stringing everybody along with lies.
My brother, yesterday I told you that I hated you. Sorry, I must have misspoke.
Of course, today I love you. I hope and trust you believe me today.
What's not to like about this sincere apology?
Of course, today I love you. I hope and trust you believe me today.
What's not to like about this sincere apology?
1
For people of the Boomer generation some of the support for Israel was tied to shame that the world in general, and the USA in particular, allowed the Holocaust to happen. Jews were refused asylum, the Allies knew about the death camps and did nothing. That shame was no small part of creating an atmosphere of support for the establishment of a Jewish state: we owed the Jews a safe place.
Never forget, yes. But the Holocaust narrative to justify Israel is losing its impact.
The Israel of today- which re-elected Netanyahu- is increasingly seen as a bully state. And if all they have is being better than Hamas, then Israel is in greater trouble than losing the Democrat party base.
Never forget, yes. But the Holocaust narrative to justify Israel is losing its impact.
The Israel of today- which re-elected Netanyahu- is increasingly seen as a bully state. And if all they have is being better than Hamas, then Israel is in greater trouble than losing the Democrat party base.
11
Wow. Neat little subtle propaganda piece. Bibi (and Israel) lurch way to the right on two-state, settlements, and immigrants and it's a Democratic problem?
"They see American support for a two-state solution and a freeze on settlement growth as a naïve recipe for more missiles landing on Israeli homes."
Uh, Mr. Horowitz, you may want to check the sequence of the above progression. Do you mean the two-state solution that was Israeli policy until a few days before the vote and may or may not be it's policy now depending on which side of the bed Bibi wakes up on?
"They see American support for a two-state solution and a freeze on settlement growth as a naïve recipe for more missiles landing on Israeli homes."
Uh, Mr. Horowitz, you may want to check the sequence of the above progression. Do you mean the two-state solution that was Israeli policy until a few days before the vote and may or may not be it's policy now depending on which side of the bed Bibi wakes up on?
10
There is no reason for a continued relationship. Israel has become a pawn of the GOP and strident, evangelical, unchristian-behaving Christians who want to strip the poor of any help, the struggling youth from attaining a decent public education, and the sick from medical care. Israel, in its turn, has 'mowed the lawn' one too many times on its ever contracting open-air ghettos. Perhaps mowing the lawn the their way of keeping the huddled masses down to a manageable size. Culling women and children by intentionally bombing UN shelters seems to be a favored tactic of Israel, insuring the extirpation of as many future generations as possible.
One of the founding principles of this country, founded NOT by fanatical Christians, but wise-thinking, educated and largely secular men is the separation of Church and State. How we can continue to partner with a country whose sole reason for being is religious hegemony, oppression through continued warfare and intimidation is beyond me and many, many Americans. We must divest ourselves of this parasitic barnacle. Israel is not the 51st state, and people need to start realizing that, pronto.
One of the founding principles of this country, founded NOT by fanatical Christians, but wise-thinking, educated and largely secular men is the separation of Church and State. How we can continue to partner with a country whose sole reason for being is religious hegemony, oppression through continued warfare and intimidation is beyond me and many, many Americans. We must divest ourselves of this parasitic barnacle. Israel is not the 51st state, and people need to start realizing that, pronto.
13
The federal government was prohibited from establishing a religion by the first amendment, and the constitution specifically outlawed any religious tests for office. However, church and state were not separated at the state level. Three of the thirteen states continued to have established churches for decades after the Bill of Rights was adopted. Connecticut's disestablished the Congregational Church in 1818, but continued, until 1965, to say its citizens had a DUTY to worship God.
The thing that gets to me is before the lawn is even mowed we are sending another boatload of lawnmowers and weedwackers to the trimmers.
Under Likud, Israel as become an apartheid state. Support this Israel if you would have supported the old South Africa or any land divided by govt into upper and lower classes of people, higher and less humans.
15
I don't why the implication in the media is that the Jewish vote in the U.S. is going to surge for Republicans, just because the Republicans slavishly court and support right-wing hardliner Benjamin Netanyahu and his determination to do nothing to bring about peace with the Palestinians and to make sure diplomacy does not work between the U.S. and Iran.
Reality Check: Consider the Jewish voting record for presidential elections since the beginning of the 20th century--solidly supportive of Democratic candidates. See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html
For example, in 2012, the Jewish vote was 30% Romney (48% total vote) and 69% Obama (total vote 51%). In 2008, the Jewish vote was 22% McCain and 78% Obama. And so it has gone since 1916, with the exception of the 1920 Harding election, where the Jewish vote (43%) as well as the total vote (60%) was for Harding, a Republican, because the Democratic candidate Cox was so weak. By the way, 38% of the Jewish vote in that election went to the socialist candidate Eugene V. Debs (Debs got 3% of the total vote).
Not that the Republicans will give up trying to "convert" the Jewish vote (by any means necessary). I found Steve King's (R from Iowa) approach especially offensive, when he said on CNN recently: "Here is what I don't understand, I don't understand how Jews in America can be Democrats first and Jewish second and support Israel along the line of just following their President."
Reality Check: Consider the Jewish voting record for presidential elections since the beginning of the 20th century--solidly supportive of Democratic candidates. See http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html
For example, in 2012, the Jewish vote was 30% Romney (48% total vote) and 69% Obama (total vote 51%). In 2008, the Jewish vote was 22% McCain and 78% Obama. And so it has gone since 1916, with the exception of the 1920 Harding election, where the Jewish vote (43%) as well as the total vote (60%) was for Harding, a Republican, because the Democratic candidate Cox was so weak. By the way, 38% of the Jewish vote in that election went to the socialist candidate Eugene V. Debs (Debs got 3% of the total vote).
Not that the Republicans will give up trying to "convert" the Jewish vote (by any means necessary). I found Steve King's (R from Iowa) approach especially offensive, when he said on CNN recently: "Here is what I don't understand, I don't understand how Jews in America can be Democrats first and Jewish second and support Israel along the line of just following their President."
2
Back when this country was debating to go into Iraq, I read Barbara Tuchman's "A March to Folly". It was a good explanation of why we invaded Iraq (although the book was written much earlier). Inspired by Bibi and Israel's most recent election, I'm reading the book again. We truly are our own worst enemy. Bibi might be a genius when it comes to politics and winning votes, but he is an absolute fool when it comes to long-term thinking and the future of Israel.
7
Barbara Tuchman is a great writer.
Another book worth reading is "The Great Game" by Peter Hopkirk - so timely, it could have been written today. And history repeats.
Another book worth reading is "The Great Game" by Peter Hopkirk - so timely, it could have been written today. And history repeats.
The real question is, Does Israel have a future with the United States, not just the Democrats. The answer most consistent with the facts on the ground is, "No."
Realpolitik clearly shows that it would be far more beneficial to the United States and our people, including the wonderful, highly talented and productive Jewish population in America, for the United States to strengthen its growing rapport with Shiite Iran, as well as with the Sunni and Shiite Arab states, while lessening our ties with Israel, who brings us all their troubles, while repaying our costly support and enormous goodwill with intensifying insults and disrespect.
Realpolitik clearly shows that it would be far more beneficial to the United States and our people, including the wonderful, highly talented and productive Jewish population in America, for the United States to strengthen its growing rapport with Shiite Iran, as well as with the Sunni and Shiite Arab states, while lessening our ties with Israel, who brings us all their troubles, while repaying our costly support and enormous goodwill with intensifying insults and disrespect.
10
The basic problem that the Israeli right, headed for the moment by Benjamin Netanyahu, has with American liberals (not with "Democrats") is that of political correctness. It's true that the religious insistence that all land between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River properly belongs to Israel and is reserved for Jews doesn't help things, but in truth the Palestinians wouldn't know what to do with a state if they had one -- indeed, their first act might be to sunder in a major civil war that couldn't help but draw in neighbors and cause widespread bloodshed.
But defense of the Palestinians' right to self-destruction has become one of the international left's most tenaciously held principles. It simply feeds the strength of Netanyahu and the Israeli religious parties.
The will to overcome inertia never is strong, and it's quite likely that the duration will endure -- little change will be seen so long as Palestinians insist on approaching the matter with absolutely no independent leverage. While Israel has spent over 65 years becoming a prosperous regional economic miracle and a real democracy, an equivalent population of Arab Palestinians (when all of them are considered, including Israeli Arabs) have done nothing to combine and do the same: they remain fragmented, tribal and ineffective.
So long as this reality obtains, Israel will choose protection against their hatred, and that means the right and Netanyahu; and American liberals will have little to say about it.
But defense of the Palestinians' right to self-destruction has become one of the international left's most tenaciously held principles. It simply feeds the strength of Netanyahu and the Israeli religious parties.
The will to overcome inertia never is strong, and it's quite likely that the duration will endure -- little change will be seen so long as Palestinians insist on approaching the matter with absolutely no independent leverage. While Israel has spent over 65 years becoming a prosperous regional economic miracle and a real democracy, an equivalent population of Arab Palestinians (when all of them are considered, including Israeli Arabs) have done nothing to combine and do the same: they remain fragmented, tribal and ineffective.
So long as this reality obtains, Israel will choose protection against their hatred, and that means the right and Netanyahu; and American liberals will have little to say about it.
8
A few years ago some folks I know travelled to Israel. A nice tour of the area with some local guides. They came away with favorable impressions, particularly of the Palestinian guides. They weren't the dirty arabs that Netanyahu paints them as.
If Israel truly sees the nuclear deal between America and Iran as a threat to their security, the US should be on guard against Israel. We've seen in the past what Israelis do: just ask the crew of the USS Liberty. (Perhaps we should spend more time thinking about Israeli terrorists than Muslim terrorists; the former are probably more effective.)
If Israel truly sees the nuclear deal between America and Iran as a threat to their security, the US should be on guard against Israel. We've seen in the past what Israelis do: just ask the crew of the USS Liberty. (Perhaps we should spend more time thinking about Israeli terrorists than Muslim terrorists; the former are probably more effective.)
8
You should perhaps update yourself on the USS Liberty, on the assumption you are in fact interested in the truth. The radio communications among the Israeli pilots and their base (which the U.S. had long ago) were declassified and publicly released about a decade ago. Unfortunately for all the conspiracists, it showed that what was the most obvious explanation, human error, was the correct one.
2
Interesting to see Dermer go on and on about how wonderfully Isreal treats women and gays. If only his GOP brethren would support such sentiments in the USA!
It's also interesting that Republicans are fanatical in their support of a man who continually complains that his nuclear-armed nation is perpetually helpless and dependent on the U.S. government. I guess it's okay to be a "welfare queen" so long as you're, well, Isreal.
We all know what this is about though - evangelicals in the bible-belt are obsessed with Isreal as a piece of religious property. They don't care one whit about the Jewish People. They see Isreal as a kind of Disneyland for Christians, which they will inherent after the rapture.
It's also interesting that Republicans are fanatical in their support of a man who continually complains that his nuclear-armed nation is perpetually helpless and dependent on the U.S. government. I guess it's okay to be a "welfare queen" so long as you're, well, Isreal.
We all know what this is about though - evangelicals in the bible-belt are obsessed with Isreal as a piece of religious property. They don't care one whit about the Jewish People. They see Isreal as a kind of Disneyland for Christians, which they will inherent after the rapture.
11
I also need to make clear that the endless rightward drift of the Israeli government has completely destroyed this Jews long time support of Israel. Adelson is a criminal who is purchasing politicians in both countries but he can't creat support for an apartheid regime. As a young man I considered going to Israel to help during the 1973 war. Now, 40 years later, I feel nothing but disgust and apathy for a country that uses oppression as a way of life.
7
How is it "moral relativism" to consider Palestinians as human beings with hopes and dreams and fears and resentments? History, at least long term history, is not on Israel's side. Enlightened leadership in Israel would not play to basest Israeli biases and fears and instead do great things like make Jerusalem an International City and practice more compassion than aggression. No, it is in fact moral relativism to insist your enemies are irrational animals while demanding they respect your right to exist. It is moral relativism to demand respect from a position of power.
10
i don't understand this idea of BFF foreign policy. if a country opposes our strategic interests, flouts our values,and actully insults our leadership, why do they get to claim a special friendship unsupported by any gain to us? i reject the idea of some mythical, mystic glue binding our countries. we need to do what is best for us. morally and strategically there is no value for america supporting an apartheid regime in the middle east.
12
It seems Dermer used the author of this article as a tool for his hasbaric exercise and the author willingly obliged by interspersing some few pro-Palestinian points to give a false pretense of a balanced article. This article seems to be an exercise in shoring up support for Israel, which support is on the wane due to repressive Israeli policies against it's neighbors. I want to learn a bit more about the author, to see where is he coming from, to understand his perspective.
7
“But the problem that no one wants to talk about is the erosion of support in the Democratic Party.”
Ten Jewish members of the Senate Democratic Caucus. None in the R Caucus.
About 20 Jewish members of the House D Caucus. Exactly 1 Jewish R in the House.
Jewish Ds are for a strong independent and secure Israel. Stopping the settlements alone is not the answer but nonethless sine qua non.
7 years removed from the Bush Administration, and Eliot Abrahams still doesn't know what he is talking about.
Ten Jewish members of the Senate Democratic Caucus. None in the R Caucus.
About 20 Jewish members of the House D Caucus. Exactly 1 Jewish R in the House.
Jewish Ds are for a strong independent and secure Israel. Stopping the settlements alone is not the answer but nonethless sine qua non.
7 years removed from the Bush Administration, and Eliot Abrahams still doesn't know what he is talking about.
6
All this analysis is absurd.
The life-blood of the Palestinian ethos is the demoniztion of Jews and the destruction of Israel.
No amount of word-twisting can alter this reality. That is why after more than 50 years of "good-intentions" rapprochement has regressed and no solution is in sight.
There are some problems that only resolve in the fullness of time.
The life-blood of the Palestinian ethos is the demoniztion of Jews and the destruction of Israel.
No amount of word-twisting can alter this reality. That is why after more than 50 years of "good-intentions" rapprochement has regressed and no solution is in sight.
There are some problems that only resolve in the fullness of time.
9
The facade of Israel as anything but a self-serving apartheid state is finally evaporating.
It is high time American tax payers stop subsidizing their illegal settlements and human rights abuses. And the day is coming where some American politician will have the bravery to state exactly that as part of a broader foreign policy agenda.
Mark my word, that candidate will become President, and that will be that.
It is high time American tax payers stop subsidizing their illegal settlements and human rights abuses. And the day is coming where some American politician will have the bravery to state exactly that as part of a broader foreign policy agenda.
Mark my word, that candidate will become President, and that will be that.
9
Can someone tell me why we seem to continue to sacrifice our interests and money on Israel? The nation has devolved into something unrecognizable, and has become a real liability for us. The deference to the ultra orthodox on social matters is bewildering for a so-called secular state. The expansion of settlements in the occupied West Bank continues to make a peace impossible. Our unwavering support has actually prevented them from engaging in meaningful negotiations. Conservative right wing blind support for Israel is a puzzling phenomenon driven by evangelical christian's support of Jewish interests over their Palestinian christian brothers. I see Israel going the way South Africa went in the 80's. And that may not be a bad thing.
7
I am a liberal democrat (over 50) and have always supported Israel though with diminishing enthusiasm over the recent years. I'm done now. For a start lets reduce their aid by the estimated amount they spend on construction and defense of the settlements in the occupied territories. If that does not change behavior towards the Palestinians then cut it completely.
6
Israel is simultaneously the most progressive country in the Middle East and an obstacle to progress outside and, recently, inside its borders.
In the 60's and 70's liberalism in this country shifted from primarily economic and civil liberties issues to those concerning civil rights, the Viet Nam War, and gender. The utopian moralistic strain in America expanded concerns to a sort of one-world, we-are-all-brothers-and-sisters paradigm, oblivious to the conflict between that notion and the problem posed by a belief in all-cultures-deserve-equal-respect-and admiration attitude when other cultures didn't share the premise. Other societies, especially in the Third World, became models to praise, if not emulate, as reaction to the Viet Nam War turned American inward-directed anger into outward-directed hope.
Israel is now caught up in the politics of the American dynamic. While in terms of civil rights, civil liberties, gender, and economic issues, Israel is clearly more progressive than any other regional country, it is held to an entirely different and higher standard than the others by American progressives, who still largely function in the world of 70's anti-imperialist politics.
While Netanyahu seems to have hired speech writers from Hamas and Rush Limbaugh, and much of what he advocates is despicable, the fact that there are a hundred times the Comments critical of Israel as of any other other country is not coincidental, nor is the hate in many of them.
In the 60's and 70's liberalism in this country shifted from primarily economic and civil liberties issues to those concerning civil rights, the Viet Nam War, and gender. The utopian moralistic strain in America expanded concerns to a sort of one-world, we-are-all-brothers-and-sisters paradigm, oblivious to the conflict between that notion and the problem posed by a belief in all-cultures-deserve-equal-respect-and admiration attitude when other cultures didn't share the premise. Other societies, especially in the Third World, became models to praise, if not emulate, as reaction to the Viet Nam War turned American inward-directed anger into outward-directed hope.
Israel is now caught up in the politics of the American dynamic. While in terms of civil rights, civil liberties, gender, and economic issues, Israel is clearly more progressive than any other regional country, it is held to an entirely different and higher standard than the others by American progressives, who still largely function in the world of 70's anti-imperialist politics.
While Netanyahu seems to have hired speech writers from Hamas and Rush Limbaugh, and much of what he advocates is despicable, the fact that there are a hundred times the Comments critical of Israel as of any other other country is not coincidental, nor is the hate in many of them.
2
Israel should be more concerned with the question of whether, under the leadership of an extremist government, it has a future in the world except as an armed encampment increasingly distanced from other nations by its regional policies, regardless of how much favor rich Jewish American donors can buy from the equally extremist GOP.
4
If the government of Israel showed more sympathy for the suffering of Palestinians (checkpoint humiliations, unemployment, poverty down the street from well-resourced settlements), I believe they would not find Democratic support to be an issue. Moral relativism is not the relevant problem.
7
We eventually have to be realistic. The Israeli's, for what ever reasons, doood or bad, have moved into a oppressive, occupying regime that has millions imprisoned and unable to participate. they have moved into a state of religious ideaology and are seen as a anti democratic country. They have nuclear weapons and their neighbors are afraid. They just finished a nasty election and chose a angry and dangerous leader. They have chosen to try and divide the American political system and shown disrespect for the office of our President. Their lobby group spends millions trying to control parts of our politics. They are a burden on all of the peace hopes we have in the middle east.
It is time for us to recognize these facts and play a more fair and even game in the area. We must quit being the tail to the Israeli's dog that wags us when ever.
It is time for us to recognize these facts and play a more fair and even game in the area. We must quit being the tail to the Israeli's dog that wags us when ever.
7
Dermer and his friends are burying their heads deep in the sand of wishful thinking. They can play the politics and engage in propaganda all they want, but, in the end, the only way to gain a broad and lasting American support is to do the right thing. And genociding Palestinians in the name of the perfect security for the Jews is not the one. Continue on that path, all they are going to left with are the fringe Evangelicals like Hagee and right wing nuts like Adelson.
4
The Republicans have basically been stuck at 58% to 60% of the white vote in the last three elections. I think Ambassador Dermer, wearing his conservative Republican activist hat, thinks that defining being pro-Israel as pro-Likud and pro-Republican might boost this total 64% by bringing over a large portion of the Jewish vote, thereby overcoming the Democrats' growing advantage amongst Hispanics and Asians as the Republican Party itself becomes more and more the party of White American Evangelical Christian Nationalism. A Republican President elected along these lines may have sufficient domestic support to certainly tolerate an Israel that annexed the West Bank and expelled the Palestinians. Such a President may even start a war with Iran while intervening in Syria and Iraq. Whether such a Congress and President could stay in power as those policies blow back and body bags come home may depend on how much they can curtail democratic processes in the United States and eliminate as many "moochers" from being able to vote as possible.
3
I agree that Israel will not be an issue with most voters in 2016 unless the discussion is framed in economic terms.
We provide Israel with over $3 billion in aid for their military budget, over 25 percent.
Incidentally this aid has increased during President Obamas time in office.
Our contribution enables Israel to provide its people with universal health care including dental.
The Republicans are happy with this however they cannot wait to deprive 10 million Americans of their insured status.
We need to evaluate all Military aid, Israel, South Korea should contribute more to the cost of American military there, likewise Germany.These are all prosperous states with Universal health care.
Add to this aid to un democratic countries such as Egypt, Pakistan and we can save a lot of money which can be rightly reinvested in the health security of Americans
We provide Israel with over $3 billion in aid for their military budget, over 25 percent.
Incidentally this aid has increased during President Obamas time in office.
Our contribution enables Israel to provide its people with universal health care including dental.
The Republicans are happy with this however they cannot wait to deprive 10 million Americans of their insured status.
We need to evaluate all Military aid, Israel, South Korea should contribute more to the cost of American military there, likewise Germany.These are all prosperous states with Universal health care.
Add to this aid to un democratic countries such as Egypt, Pakistan and we can save a lot of money which can be rightly reinvested in the health security of Americans
7
Maybe Jews are making a big mistake by trying to hitch their God to any one particular place, as in to Israel in this case.
As the world's exploding population ever more frantically scrambles for sovereign rights to scarcer amounts of real ground, exclusivity becomes less and less feasible for any real length of time; and certainly not for any eternity, a duration of which some would like to believe in.
I just find it sad that so many Jews who love their God and in being Jews, on all sorts of levels and in varying ways of demonstrating that affinity, are being forced to have to sacrifice the basic nature and source of their deep-seated and fervent beliefs all because a small number of orthodox and opportunistic politicians who appear to want to try and put "country" before God.
Worship of the territory of Israel as that which is sacred, rather than the God who supposedly granted it at one point in time to its followers, seems not that unlike ancient's bowing down before golden calves, which God at that time did not particularly care for either.
Having "peace for all in a region" and "love of God" does not seem to have to be things that has to be mutually exclusive, especially over a God that is defined as love.
As the world's exploding population ever more frantically scrambles for sovereign rights to scarcer amounts of real ground, exclusivity becomes less and less feasible for any real length of time; and certainly not for any eternity, a duration of which some would like to believe in.
I just find it sad that so many Jews who love their God and in being Jews, on all sorts of levels and in varying ways of demonstrating that affinity, are being forced to have to sacrifice the basic nature and source of their deep-seated and fervent beliefs all because a small number of orthodox and opportunistic politicians who appear to want to try and put "country" before God.
Worship of the territory of Israel as that which is sacred, rather than the God who supposedly granted it at one point in time to its followers, seems not that unlike ancient's bowing down before golden calves, which God at that time did not particularly care for either.
Having "peace for all in a region" and "love of God" does not seem to have to be things that has to be mutually exclusive, especially over a God that is defined as love.
3
The premise of the question is that Obama IS the Democratic Party.Perhaps the better question is Do Obama and the Democrats have a future? Few people think that if Obama were gone, that the rest of the Democrats would desert Israel. For the moment Obama leads but every day Democrats desert him. Neatness' behavior was not caused by US policy. It was caused by the existential threat most Israelies experience every day- and they want security. I predict Congress will override Obama's threatened veto with the help of Democrats and refuse to lift sanctions. The executive branch has seized, over years, virtually unfettered powers- and Congess is as much interested in preserving Congress function as an institution as it is in any other issue. The ultimate question is -what is the future of Congress?
3
Obama IS the leader of my party and his treatment by right wingers in Israel is plenty of reason for this white, non-Jewish longtime Progressive Democrat to be finished with support of Israel. Have spent my life defending that country's aggressive actions against its neighbors and supporting my country's financing of their military. No more. They no longer have strategic or moral value to us. The U.S. should now end it's support of Israel and force them to the two-state solution that actually IS a righteous cause.
Enough with all the self-delusion. This is simple. Bibi supports a two state solution...when pigs fly.
1
I am increasingly perplexed by how this and so many other issues are positioned in the new and politically: partisan and mutually exclusive, essentially a way to divide.
As a liberal, Jew-by-birth I have never had any particular allegiance to Israel per se, and more than I have to other countries, which is to say I see room for everyone's survival and happiness and wish it for them.
Why can't we be supportive of Israel AND at the very same time, not align with or condone a particular leader's policies and ideas? Why must we make everything sound so dire, so malicious and so calculated when it comes to politics? The more articles like include words like "non-Jewish base" the more it feeds into anti-semitism and anti-arabism. I do not think it is naive at all to see that Arabs and Jews can coexist peacefully and would probably do so without hateful and war-mongering leadership.
You need to change your definition of "support" and reframe the issue so that it is not always presented as an either-or proposition. After all, aren't we still being supportive of our friends when we take away the keys to their car if they are drunk? Can't we still be friends with someone if disagree and refuse to go along with a bad idea?
As a liberal, Jew-by-birth I have never had any particular allegiance to Israel per se, and more than I have to other countries, which is to say I see room for everyone's survival and happiness and wish it for them.
Why can't we be supportive of Israel AND at the very same time, not align with or condone a particular leader's policies and ideas? Why must we make everything sound so dire, so malicious and so calculated when it comes to politics? The more articles like include words like "non-Jewish base" the more it feeds into anti-semitism and anti-arabism. I do not think it is naive at all to see that Arabs and Jews can coexist peacefully and would probably do so without hateful and war-mongering leadership.
You need to change your definition of "support" and reframe the issue so that it is not always presented as an either-or proposition. After all, aren't we still being supportive of our friends when we take away the keys to their car if they are drunk? Can't we still be friends with someone if disagree and refuse to go along with a bad idea?
2
Please inform WH spokesman Josh Earnest I am re-evaluating my previously unconditional support for the Democratic Party.
While my grandfathers, grandmothers, parents, uncles & aunts, cousins , have all been Democrats, and union members, I am willing to state that, while I will remain a strong ally of the Democrats, I will be re-evaluating the family's prior unconditional veto power used against Republican candidates.
The tensions between me and the Democrats came to a head during the last Democratic Convention. My Party leaders appeared to bow to the Left wing pressure not to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capitol. The Party leaders had to "walk back" the platform later on to assure Jewish voters like me, who tend to vote in "droves", and I guess that was to neutralize the latent, and not so latent, Antisemitism among the Party's Left wing.
When asked about the Democratic Party's stand re Israel, I am prone these days to retort, "Which one?"
But do not fear. We are still committed to the Democratic Party because we share a "common set of values and aspirations." However, the Republicans could be the next "regional power" here in the States, and I am secretly being wooed by them, and well, you know.
It might be good for my legacy to kind of associate with Republicans, and to even make a deal with them for my vote for kinda like only 10 years or so. Like a "sunset" provision.
By the way, this ain't no joke.
While my grandfathers, grandmothers, parents, uncles & aunts, cousins , have all been Democrats, and union members, I am willing to state that, while I will remain a strong ally of the Democrats, I will be re-evaluating the family's prior unconditional veto power used against Republican candidates.
The tensions between me and the Democrats came to a head during the last Democratic Convention. My Party leaders appeared to bow to the Left wing pressure not to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capitol. The Party leaders had to "walk back" the platform later on to assure Jewish voters like me, who tend to vote in "droves", and I guess that was to neutralize the latent, and not so latent, Antisemitism among the Party's Left wing.
When asked about the Democratic Party's stand re Israel, I am prone these days to retort, "Which one?"
But do not fear. We are still committed to the Democratic Party because we share a "common set of values and aspirations." However, the Republicans could be the next "regional power" here in the States, and I am secretly being wooed by them, and well, you know.
It might be good for my legacy to kind of associate with Republicans, and to even make a deal with them for my vote for kinda like only 10 years or so. Like a "sunset" provision.
By the way, this ain't no joke.
1
The best solution is to provide our own. Stop trying to support Israel no matter how objectionable their politics, wars or rhetoric become.
Open up immigration completely, make the deal with Iran, and if the Israelis don't like it, let them move here. Drain the country of its talent, its economic base, its warring abilities at the same time making the deal with Iran. The US has no appropriate role in controlling the middle east. None.
Open up immigration completely, make the deal with Iran, and if the Israelis don't like it, let them move here. Drain the country of its talent, its economic base, its warring abilities at the same time making the deal with Iran. The US has no appropriate role in controlling the middle east. None.
7
A change in U.S. policy towards Israel is a long-time in the making. Our national interests are separate and distinct from the increasingly extreme Zionist agenda of Israel. The hostile actions of PM Netanyahu is making the separation easier for Democrats of integrity though with a good deal of regret.
In a world of shifting power relationships, the U.S. must think about its authentic interests in the Near East and with Islamic communities. It can no longer afford to allow Israel lobbyists to have a singular voice on our policy. This will not be an easy feat, however.
Unfortunately, the radical-Zionist lobbyists have used the tools of money, political threats, Holocaust guilt, and racist opposition to a black President to unduly sway a corruptible Congress (Republican and Democrat). Americans who want a government that represents interests for and by the people should be concerned about this.
In a world of shifting power relationships, the U.S. must think about its authentic interests in the Near East and with Islamic communities. It can no longer afford to allow Israel lobbyists to have a singular voice on our policy. This will not be an easy feat, however.
Unfortunately, the radical-Zionist lobbyists have used the tools of money, political threats, Holocaust guilt, and racist opposition to a black President to unduly sway a corruptible Congress (Republican and Democrat). Americans who want a government that represents interests for and by the people should be concerned about this.
12
Dermer is not a professional diplomat, whatever his credentials. A professional would know enough to stay out of politics.
4
The Republicans are back at what they do best, create wedges between people with honest but differing views on the same subject. Their objective here is obvious: they want to create a wedge between the Jews and the Democratic party, an alliance which has existed for many years. Here's an example from recent history. In 1964, Lyndon Johnson was pushing civil rights legislation for the benefit of black people who were denied basic rights in this country. Republicans were overjoyed and they used the issue to create a wedge between American southerners who were traditionally democratic and the Democratic party. Richard Nixon prophesied that those southern Democrats would now be Republicans, referring to the fallout from passage of the Civil Rights Act. Johnson knew before he pushed for this legislation that the southern Dixiecrats would leave the party in droves, but he pushed forward in spite of that because it was the just thing to do.
So the wedge is being applied again by Republicans who would sacrifice anyone or any principal to obtain their votes. Let's hope they aren't successful in separating American Jews from their traditional Democratic allegiance because of Netanyahu's pledge that the Palestinians would never have a state of their own.
So the wedge is being applied again by Republicans who would sacrifice anyone or any principal to obtain their votes. Let's hope they aren't successful in separating American Jews from their traditional Democratic allegiance because of Netanyahu's pledge that the Palestinians would never have a state of their own.
4
The hypocrisy is the above comment is laughable.
It seems to me as a liberal American that the original model for Israel is the intractable problem.
A horrible human crime of international proportions received a clumsy response. What should have been established was a U.N.-protected multi-ethnic state loosely where Israel now stands, but probably on a little larger footprint. This would be a permanent available homeland to Jews but also to the Palestinians and probably also Christians in the Levant. While the Jews may or may not be in the majority depending upon the vicissitudes of demographics they would never be a small minority and thus never subject to what they endured over the centuries in Europe and elsewhere. This nation--its appropriate name is not within my competence--would remain an internationally protected island of pluralism in a world too often tempted by the siren song of exclusion. It would be protected against the reactionary forces surrounding it. Knock on wood, its successful model might even influence some of those surrounding countries.
Neither the liberal nor the American traditions can comfortably accommodate the concept of a religion-specific or ethnic-specific state. Netanyahu is a natural and inevitable consequence of this faulty model. This has been and remains our problem.
A horrible human crime of international proportions received a clumsy response. What should have been established was a U.N.-protected multi-ethnic state loosely where Israel now stands, but probably on a little larger footprint. This would be a permanent available homeland to Jews but also to the Palestinians and probably also Christians in the Levant. While the Jews may or may not be in the majority depending upon the vicissitudes of demographics they would never be a small minority and thus never subject to what they endured over the centuries in Europe and elsewhere. This nation--its appropriate name is not within my competence--would remain an internationally protected island of pluralism in a world too often tempted by the siren song of exclusion. It would be protected against the reactionary forces surrounding it. Knock on wood, its successful model might even influence some of those surrounding countries.
Neither the liberal nor the American traditions can comfortably accommodate the concept of a religion-specific or ethnic-specific state. Netanyahu is a natural and inevitable consequence of this faulty model. This has been and remains our problem.
5
I applaud your good intentions, but deplore your naivete.
Unfortunately, most stable nations in the world are overwhelmingly of a single religion and ethnicity.
The Jews have been persecuted since time immemorial, long before WW II and the Russian and Polish pogroms.
Jews and Arabs were in conflict in Palestine long before the creation of Israel.
The idea that a single state accommodating both Jews and Arabs could have been created while leading to a stable situation is naive.
The creation of Israel in Palestine was probably the best between a number of bad choices, although I would personally have preferred to take a large chunk of Germany and used it for the creation of a Jewish state.
Unfortunately, most stable nations in the world are overwhelmingly of a single religion and ethnicity.
The Jews have been persecuted since time immemorial, long before WW II and the Russian and Polish pogroms.
Jews and Arabs were in conflict in Palestine long before the creation of Israel.
The idea that a single state accommodating both Jews and Arabs could have been created while leading to a stable situation is naive.
The creation of Israel in Palestine was probably the best between a number of bad choices, although I would personally have preferred to take a large chunk of Germany and used it for the creation of a Jewish state.
Based on the realities of the situation, compounded by the British mishandling of their Mandate responsibilities, a partition of the land was proposed to create a Jewish and an Arab state. The Jews were offered about 10% of what originally had been given them to create a non-contiguous state that exempted Jerusalem until, after 10 years, a plebiscite could be held. So desperate were the Jews to have any state, they accepted that deal. The Arabs refused it, attacked Israel and lost. While Jordan and Egypt controlled what the Palestinian Arabs now claim as their land, no Palestine was created. In fact, until after the Six Day War in 1967, the PLO expressly disclaimed any rights to those lands.
It's all well and good to spin nice fantasies from the safety six thousand miles affords, it's also unhelpful in trying to frame a realistic solution.
It's all well and good to spin nice fantasies from the safety six thousand miles affords, it's also unhelpful in trying to frame a realistic solution.
2
It is Democrats who seem to have a problem with democracy and embrace tyranny. I suppose they believe sitting down and talking equates to defusing a sworn enemy. It never has, and with an Islamic Theocracy-it never will.
4
The problem here is that Israel is increasing becoming a theocracy, as well as undemocratic. Yes, "God gave us this Land" is less dangerous than "God commands me to kill you', but both are irrational religious beliefs. The United States does not have to support the lesser of evils. It need not support either.
To date the cost to cement/shore up the 'special' relationship is a sovereign State carved out of land that was already inhabited by others, the ensuing violence and countless lives lost, 3 billion or so a year, UN Veto's, unquestioning support, preferential trade agreements, sharing intelligence, turning a blind eye to Israel's nuclear arms and human rights violations. Unfortunately, all work-a-day in the world of foreign policy wrangling.
Rarely if ever has a party whether Democrat or Republican been able to change the foreign policy of its country, set in stone decades if not centuries and dependent on a multitude of convoluted and confusing alliances some so outdated that it forever keeps countries trailing behind the reality of the world today, repeating errors ad infinitum not to forget being bolstered up by prejudice and ignorance ingrained in its citizens - a result of decades of convincing the masses of the right of its aims and might.
However, Netanyahu seems to have done the impossible - given the US a solid reason to make a monumental and historic change and decide how important pleasing Israel and continuing to deny the Palestinians is to US foreign policy. Or maybe not, Israel could be holding the "wild-card", we don't know why this relationship is so geo-politically special or what the ramifications of change to a normal relationship might be. btw: I do wish someone would explain that.
Rarely if ever has a party whether Democrat or Republican been able to change the foreign policy of its country, set in stone decades if not centuries and dependent on a multitude of convoluted and confusing alliances some so outdated that it forever keeps countries trailing behind the reality of the world today, repeating errors ad infinitum not to forget being bolstered up by prejudice and ignorance ingrained in its citizens - a result of decades of convincing the masses of the right of its aims and might.
However, Netanyahu seems to have done the impossible - given the US a solid reason to make a monumental and historic change and decide how important pleasing Israel and continuing to deny the Palestinians is to US foreign policy. Or maybe not, Israel could be holding the "wild-card", we don't know why this relationship is so geo-politically special or what the ramifications of change to a normal relationship might be. btw: I do wish someone would explain that.
8
The United States' support of any country should never be unconditional. We have pride and dignity Mr. Netanyahu! I'm proud to see that President Obama is standing his ground. Most of our government officials, unfortunately, have no self respect and will do anything for a donor.
12
What I don't see mentioned is that George W. grew up with Saudi Princes and that Bibi entered the American workforce in close proximity to Willard Mitt Romney. Global economies mean politics of like interests that often supersede the needs of the various people and their welfare.
We need to get rid of the belief that democratic governance is our enemy. It is our government and need to take note of the one time Reagan was actually correct "Trust but verify." It is the responsibility of we the people to verify that our government serves the people's interest. We cannot afford another Dick Cheney and his secret meeting with the forces that rule our economy.
Meanwhile we must consider the whys of the decision of the Israeli electorate and the whys of Iranian intent to destroy Israel when through the millenia it is Arabs that have been the real danger of the Persians. We must also try to understand what the needs and desires of the Palestinians are and how we can create a society where they can flourish and be content.
Freedom and democracy have different meaning to the would be oligarchs and plutocrats than it has to we the people but we need to listen to each other at this time of incredible change. Now is not the time for another civil war and a divorce seems a better alternative to the dysfunction of Republican and Democratic intransigence when we most need a functional government.
We need to get rid of the belief that democratic governance is our enemy. It is our government and need to take note of the one time Reagan was actually correct "Trust but verify." It is the responsibility of we the people to verify that our government serves the people's interest. We cannot afford another Dick Cheney and his secret meeting with the forces that rule our economy.
Meanwhile we must consider the whys of the decision of the Israeli electorate and the whys of Iranian intent to destroy Israel when through the millenia it is Arabs that have been the real danger of the Persians. We must also try to understand what the needs and desires of the Palestinians are and how we can create a society where they can flourish and be content.
Freedom and democracy have different meaning to the would be oligarchs and plutocrats than it has to we the people but we need to listen to each other at this time of incredible change. Now is not the time for another civil war and a divorce seems a better alternative to the dysfunction of Republican and Democratic intransigence when we most need a functional government.
3
Why does the US send $3 billion in aid to a country whose leader insults our president and interferes with our efforts to forge international treaties? $3 billion is a lot of money to give to an increasingly hostile "partner" while Americans are struggling and our infrastructure is crumbling. If the Republicans are looking for a way to balance the budget, cutting aid to Israel seems like a start.
13
“Democrats have to address it,¨ (Abrams said)...¨Democrats who feel less supportive are not going to listen to me. They are going to listen to Hillary Clinton.”
He's right in that any thoughtful person is not going to take his cues from a man who lied to Congress about the El Mozote massacre, who sold arms to the Iranians for hostages, and who pled guilty to a charge of withholding information from Congress. But they're not going listen to HRC if all she does is continues our the policy of ¨Israel, right or wrong.¨ The American people are sick and tired of this charade, and know that the only true way to support Israel is to get her to acknowledge and rectify her Apartheidesque imprisonment of millions of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams
He's right in that any thoughtful person is not going to take his cues from a man who lied to Congress about the El Mozote massacre, who sold arms to the Iranians for hostages, and who pled guilty to a charge of withholding information from Congress. But they're not going listen to HRC if all she does is continues our the policy of ¨Israel, right or wrong.¨ The American people are sick and tired of this charade, and know that the only true way to support Israel is to get her to acknowledge and rectify her Apartheidesque imprisonment of millions of people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliott_Abrams
19
The Israel issue has been simplified by the arrogant and patronizing Netanyahu in ways he obviously never considered. Anyone, Jew or non-Jew, Democrat or Republican, who has a problem with aggressive militarism, religious fundamentalism, racism, right wing extremism, and the idea of a foreign leader to whom we give billions of dollars, openly mocking and insulting our president, is going to have a problem offering any support to Netanyahu’s Israel. It’s that simple.
28
The apartheid in the Middle East is the one enforced by violence against Jews who for decades now have not been safe (much less able to vote, etc.) living in a dozen Arab nations that Jews inhabited for centuries before Muhammed was born.
Most of us, including myself, admire Israel and its history. Started by those who survived or lost family in the Holocaust, they came back to the biblical land of their ancestors and, indeed, made it bloom. Ben Gurion and others envisioned a Jewish homeland and a social democracy.
Now we have Bibi who pandered to the worst in right wing zealots who condone the mistreatment of their Palestinian neighbors. Stealing their land, building settlements for cheaper housing on occupied that land and ignoring the rights that the Palestinians deserve. They forget their own history culminating in the Holocaust.
It is high time that this country stop the $3 billion annually that goes to Israel's military who can defend the country. It's high time we ignore AIPAC and their ilk who attempt to run our foreign policy and ignore our President. It's also high time that we make clear to Bibi that his Ambassador must go and that we will join the civilized world in condemning his apartheid practices via the United Nations. A sad chapter in the short history of a noble country.
Now we have Bibi who pandered to the worst in right wing zealots who condone the mistreatment of their Palestinian neighbors. Stealing their land, building settlements for cheaper housing on occupied that land and ignoring the rights that the Palestinians deserve. They forget their own history culminating in the Holocaust.
It is high time that this country stop the $3 billion annually that goes to Israel's military who can defend the country. It's high time we ignore AIPAC and their ilk who attempt to run our foreign policy and ignore our President. It's also high time that we make clear to Bibi that his Ambassador must go and that we will join the civilized world in condemning his apartheid practices via the United Nations. A sad chapter in the short history of a noble country.
15
Some "admiration." Israel is still a social democracy and still populated by Jews driven from other lands. And its territory still blooms in stark contrast to every one of its belligerent neighbors.
1
Dermer doesn't seem to realize how backwards he's got it. Everyone understands Israel's success. Personally, it's the only nation in the entire Middle East I'd ever be interested in living in precisely because it's more stable, progressive and prosperous than any of its neighbors.
Bibi is ruining that. When Dermer lists Israel's accomplishments, he's actually telling us all the things that Netanyahu and his neocon wannabes are destroying. They are turning Israel into just another Middle Eastern thugocracy. I'm a non-Jewish Democratic supporter of Israel who's fed up with the way Israel has slowly morphed into an outpost of the Congressional GOP, into a regional bully, into a nation now led by a man who openly lies to get reelected and apparently gets away with it.
And Dermer better quickly learn to communicate effectively with Americans who aren't on the far right. When the article describes his clumsy efforts to speak with groups to his left, I'm reminded immediately of how poorly the Arabs used to communicate with American audiences compared to the Israelis. It was Netanyahu himself, after all, who did such a great job representing the Israeli position during the first Gulf War.
Bibi is ruining that. When Dermer lists Israel's accomplishments, he's actually telling us all the things that Netanyahu and his neocon wannabes are destroying. They are turning Israel into just another Middle Eastern thugocracy. I'm a non-Jewish Democratic supporter of Israel who's fed up with the way Israel has slowly morphed into an outpost of the Congressional GOP, into a regional bully, into a nation now led by a man who openly lies to get reelected and apparently gets away with it.
And Dermer better quickly learn to communicate effectively with Americans who aren't on the far right. When the article describes his clumsy efforts to speak with groups to his left, I'm reminded immediately of how poorly the Arabs used to communicate with American audiences compared to the Israelis. It was Netanyahu himself, after all, who did such a great job representing the Israeli position during the first Gulf War.
56
A promise not to continue using its security council vote to veto the establishment of a sovereign Palestine may all along have been an element in the Iran negotiations. If so, the Republicans and Netanyahu have been played to perfection by President Obama.
11
The answer to the headline's question is "no." The Israeli prime minister is the Speaker of the House.
5
Islamic extremists murder 200 in Yemen and 40 in Tunis with untold wounded and maimed but the outcry here is about Netanyahu telling Israeli Jewish voters that Israeli Palestinian voters are voting in droves. This is called racist while every kind of similar tactic in U.S. elections is termed " a good ground game". Netanyahu opposes formation of a Palestinian state while Hamas rules in Gaza. Is he supposed to forget the recent rocketing and tunneling into Israel months ago? This has the stench of something but I'm not permitted to say it. Support among Jews for Israel is in fact slipping. What's new about Jews wanting to assimilate or be less obtrusive in their identity? It won't work.
13
Obama wants a two state solution. The rest of the world wants a two state solution. Obama wants peace through diplomacy. The rest of the world wants peace through diplomacy. A two state solution through diplomacy would take the wind out of the sails of Islamic terror groups. It would rob the terrorists of a major issue to fight against. If a two state solution was achieved part of the deal would/should be: If you attack Israel we will wipe you off the map. Period. End of story. See how easy that was. Every one wins. Liberals get their diplomacy and if it doesn't work Conservatives get their war. It's a win win.
15
Withdraw from Lebanon = Hezbollah. Withdraw from Gaza = Hamas. Withdraw from the West Bank leaving a 10 km waistline of an Israeli State = the World Yawns. Good riddance of these Jews. We can find other problems to worry about.
1
Visits by Republican Presidential contenders to Israel, Boehner's invitation to Netanyahu to speak before a Republican Congress bypassing protocol, Netanyahu's invitation to Boehner to visit Israel as a hero for their cause, statements made by Netanyahu that indicate hawkish right wing attitudes toward Palestinians and Iran make it very clear that this is a strategy by the religious right to take total control in 2016. I cannot help but assume that this scenario was planned from the beginning to weaken the Democrats and embarrass Obama. Put another way, the bully in the school yard is still knocking around the small kids, stealing their land, with big brother backing him, carrying a big stick. The bully keeps the region in constant turmoil and the big brother gets cheap oil. There is however one unknown in the family. Will they vote to rid themselves of the trouble makers, or will they unite to take over the school? One thing for sure, a family that acts this way cannot be trusted.
7
No more debate. No more of our tax dollars, no more pandering, no more taking insults from Netanyahu and his crew. We've given enough.
18
I'd go farther. I would support using US tax dollars to liberate the Palestinians.
I believe BB when he says Israel is the little satan but the United states is the big satan in the Arab worlds eyes. Israel is essentialy the front line on the war on terror in the ME . No amount of appeasement will end the Arab worlds desire for the destruction of the state of Israel. Mr. Netanyahu is the modern version of Winston Churchill . Mr Obama and the liberal democrat party are our modern Neville Chamberlain .
9
As one reader commented, Ron Dermer should be declared persona non grata and kicked out as ambassador.
Then Mr. Obama needs to address the nation and let the Republicans know that according to the constitution (the one the GOP claims to love), he is in charge of our foreign policy.
Then Mr. Obama needs to address the nation and let the Republicans know that according to the constitution (the one the GOP claims to love), he is in charge of our foreign policy.
15
The modern state of Israel is very much a child of the West - Great Britain and the U.S. in particular. If one extends the metaphor, children grow up and have to find their own way. I don't think one should view the current rift with malice, although certainly political forces in both countries are going to use anger as a tool in their favor. On the other hand, independence implies self reliance, so perhaps it is appropriate to go that route in our foreign policy. Self-interests can diverge, after all.
5
From Wikipedia:
During the Reagan administration, Abrams gained notoriety for his involvement in controversial foreign policy decisions regarding Nicaragua and El Salvador. During Bush's first term, he served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director on the National Security Council for Near East and North African Affairs. At the start of Bush's second term, Abrams was promoted to be his Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy, in charge of promoting Bush's strategy of advancing democracy abroad. His appointment by Bush was controversial due to his conviction in 1991 on two misdemeanor counts of unlawfully withholding information from Congress during the Iran-Contra Affair investigation.
During the Reagan administration, Abrams gained notoriety for his involvement in controversial foreign policy decisions regarding Nicaragua and El Salvador. During Bush's first term, he served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director on the National Security Council for Near East and North African Affairs. At the start of Bush's second term, Abrams was promoted to be his Deputy National Security Advisor for Global Democracy Strategy, in charge of promoting Bush's strategy of advancing democracy abroad. His appointment by Bush was controversial due to his conviction in 1991 on two misdemeanor counts of unlawfully withholding information from Congress during the Iran-Contra Affair investigation.
9
The politics of religious identity are incompatible with factual humanism. Strict separation of fact based governance from religious fiction based national identity is an absolute requirement for peaceful civilization now and in the future.
Israel as a religious state is as contradictory to the enlightenment principles of America's foundation and success as are the various states that base governance on Islam. American compassion for jews who suffered exclusion and oppression based on their religion and/or ethnic identity must not cloud our understanding that the mythologies of revelation and prophecy are lingering infections of the global body politic. Humanity scientifically, historically, and rationally educated to recognize and reject the frauds of religion must apply antiseptic to the infirmities of religious nationalism wherever it occurs. We should not condone, let alone support, any religious state.
Israel as a religious state is as contradictory to the enlightenment principles of America's foundation and success as are the various states that base governance on Islam. American compassion for jews who suffered exclusion and oppression based on their religion and/or ethnic identity must not cloud our understanding that the mythologies of revelation and prophecy are lingering infections of the global body politic. Humanity scientifically, historically, and rationally educated to recognize and reject the frauds of religion must apply antiseptic to the infirmities of religious nationalism wherever it occurs. We should not condone, let alone support, any religious state.
7
Twenty even ten years ago publishing these comments would have been unthinkable. People today understand what is happening. The question is how to change policy over the objections of the followers of the invisible yet powerful sky being. And the objections of Adelson who wants an enslaved Palestinian population to staff the Casino/Brothels he will build on their land.
10
So this is where Code Pink has been for the past 6 years? No need to address the increase in U.S. drone strikes, covert wars or civilian casualties I guess. It's as if their protests were never really about principles at all. The silence has been deafening.
1
"We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America" - Presidential candidate Obama, Oct., 2008.
Who could have imagined that transformation would lead to the day when we offer condolences to the leader of a country that has butchered countless Americans, and condemnation to the leader of one of our staunchest allies.
Yes we can ... indeed.
Who could have imagined that transformation would lead to the day when we offer condolences to the leader of a country that has butchered countless Americans, and condemnation to the leader of one of our staunchest allies.
Yes we can ... indeed.
9
Israel may be your ally, but it's not mine.
It's a complicate issue - expensive - issue. Lots to consider when trying to figure out why this relationship justifies $3 billion a year, plus the hatred of the Muslim world.
Of course I'll weigh those issue pragmatically, but it will certainly be a long time before I forget the insult to our President from a close ally who should be in our debt. I doubt I'm alone on either side of the aisle, though you likely won't hear us mention it much.
Of course I'll weigh those issue pragmatically, but it will certainly be a long time before I forget the insult to our President from a close ally who should be in our debt. I doubt I'm alone on either side of the aisle, though you likely won't hear us mention it much.
14
It's $5 billion a year, and from a country (ours) that only recently began to offer health insurance subsidies to our own citizens. This outflow of money to Israel is outrageous.
The Democratic party is consolidating an enduring hold on the US presidency built around an electoral vote base between 300-360 votes (269 is the majority number). This is a cosmopolitan, tolerant progressive base of Americans situated in the states of Lincoln's Union and the Far West. A large part of this Democratic party is peace oriented and will be supportive of strategic initiatives that will bring stability and peace to troubled regions of the world. It wants a de-militarized foreign policy and engagement with adversaries where possible. The Democratic party's working foreign policy leaders in Washington are uber-realists and most likely will stay in that mold if Hillary Clinton is elected president.
In contrast, the Republicans are centered in the Old South with a highly nationalist party centered on a white ethnic identify; it feels a strong identify and affinity with the Israeli political right wing. It likes a militarized foreign policy and it seeks confrontation with adversaries in the Middle East, South Asia, and other troublesome areas of the world. The Republican party will react with shrill antagonism to any Democratic administration's initiatives to engage with adversaries and to negotiate differences.
Political guerrilla war by Washington Republicans against future Democratic administrations will be constant, incessant, and probably increasingly futile as the Democratic party moves towards Congressional majorities in coming elections.
In contrast, the Republicans are centered in the Old South with a highly nationalist party centered on a white ethnic identify; it feels a strong identify and affinity with the Israeli political right wing. It likes a militarized foreign policy and it seeks confrontation with adversaries in the Middle East, South Asia, and other troublesome areas of the world. The Republican party will react with shrill antagonism to any Democratic administration's initiatives to engage with adversaries and to negotiate differences.
Political guerrilla war by Washington Republicans against future Democratic administrations will be constant, incessant, and probably increasingly futile as the Democratic party moves towards Congressional majorities in coming elections.
9
I had to suppress my gag reflex to move past the appearance of Elliott Abrams in the first sentence. I trust this was by design.
When "trustworthy" is certain to be the word of the year, Elliot Abrams has repeatedly demonstrated, over many decades, that he embodies the antithesis of that word. I've learned that the moment Elliot Abrams appears in print our nation is going to be flim-flammed into yet another expensive and useless war.
Netanyahu took every possible opportunity to demonstrate he is not trustworthy to his global partners, his neighbors and his own citizens. Why do his supporters trust this guy?
The 47 Senators in the GOP proved in writing that no matter what they sign they will not be trustworthy. The GOP House sought some kind of political advantage in proving they were not trustworthy by hosting a foreign leader under numerous false pretenses.
Addison, Dermer and Abrams are demonstrating moral relativism. Have you never been to evangelical churches where Jews are reviled? I grew up with the studios of multiple TV preachers and tent preachers within a relaxed walk. Those church leaders are as devious and untrustworthy group of sociopaths as Netanyahu. But support from those evangelicals is leveraged into congressional support.
We're being drawn into a hall of mirrors occupied by untrustworthy parties. We'll be paying for this war yet again My son and other active duty US soldier will be deployed again.
Yet the problem is with Democrats?
When "trustworthy" is certain to be the word of the year, Elliot Abrams has repeatedly demonstrated, over many decades, that he embodies the antithesis of that word. I've learned that the moment Elliot Abrams appears in print our nation is going to be flim-flammed into yet another expensive and useless war.
Netanyahu took every possible opportunity to demonstrate he is not trustworthy to his global partners, his neighbors and his own citizens. Why do his supporters trust this guy?
The 47 Senators in the GOP proved in writing that no matter what they sign they will not be trustworthy. The GOP House sought some kind of political advantage in proving they were not trustworthy by hosting a foreign leader under numerous false pretenses.
Addison, Dermer and Abrams are demonstrating moral relativism. Have you never been to evangelical churches where Jews are reviled? I grew up with the studios of multiple TV preachers and tent preachers within a relaxed walk. Those church leaders are as devious and untrustworthy group of sociopaths as Netanyahu. But support from those evangelicals is leveraged into congressional support.
We're being drawn into a hall of mirrors occupied by untrustworthy parties. We'll be paying for this war yet again My son and other active duty US soldier will be deployed again.
Yet the problem is with Democrats?
17
I think most normal people would respect the radical left if they equally protested countries where women and gays are treated like third class citizens and denied all rights and often their lives. But seems the radical left has little care about their plight.
10
The way I see it, everything that Netanyahu says now before embarking upon serious negotiations with the Palestinians is an extreme bargaining stance. I expect that the Palestinians are and will be doing the same thing, like with their international criminal court application. As negotiations progress both sides will come off their opening positions.
Who was viewed as more intransigent than Menahem Begin? Nevertheless, when he found a serious negotiating partner in President Sadat he gave up everything in exchange for peace, a peace which has endured for almost 40 years.
Neither side is going to give away the store before it even opens for business.
Who was viewed as more intransigent than Menahem Begin? Nevertheless, when he found a serious negotiating partner in President Sadat he gave up everything in exchange for peace, a peace which has endured for almost 40 years.
Neither side is going to give away the store before it even opens for business.
4
The Democratic Party is going have to change its relationship with Israel. American Jews will never go to the republicans regarding Jewish issues because it's all about the "Rapture" with them. Republicans just are using Israel and American Jews as pawns for their own political purposes. We don't for a second believe they really care about our welfare, especially since they have a KKK sympathizer as their third in command. It's the democrats who are going to have to fall in line with American Jews and back off supporting Israel.
6
What people are waking up to is the fact that Israel is not really a country that "shares our values"; at least the values of today.
Since its political culture was born in Europe, the fact that feminism and gay rights have some traction in Israel is not surprising. The invidious contrast with the traditionalist Muslim world is cheap and unilluminating. People from conservative societies still have lives and rights that matter.
Despite its progressive veneer, Israel has to be recognized for what it is: a country that routinely knocks down houses and makes families homeless because they happen to be Arab. It reserves land and resources by race. It owes its origin to forced dispossession of the native population; a process that continues today. In truth it is a settler colony, like old Rhodesia or French Algeria.
The fact that so many of its citizens are moving to Berlin rather suggests that the Holocaust rationale is overstated; Jews are less safe in Israel than in the diaspora; though mostly safe in both. The internet also allows us to see beyond the deferential veil of standard news coverage. This is not some poor waif always defending itself. It has massive superiority over its rivals, almost always takes the initiative or reacts disproportionately in armed conflict. and melodramatically exaggerates regional and local threats.
In short, there is no real reason for liberals to support such a regime. It is high time that Democrats began turning away.
Since its political culture was born in Europe, the fact that feminism and gay rights have some traction in Israel is not surprising. The invidious contrast with the traditionalist Muslim world is cheap and unilluminating. People from conservative societies still have lives and rights that matter.
Despite its progressive veneer, Israel has to be recognized for what it is: a country that routinely knocks down houses and makes families homeless because they happen to be Arab. It reserves land and resources by race. It owes its origin to forced dispossession of the native population; a process that continues today. In truth it is a settler colony, like old Rhodesia or French Algeria.
The fact that so many of its citizens are moving to Berlin rather suggests that the Holocaust rationale is overstated; Jews are less safe in Israel than in the diaspora; though mostly safe in both. The internet also allows us to see beyond the deferential veil of standard news coverage. This is not some poor waif always defending itself. It has massive superiority over its rivals, almost always takes the initiative or reacts disproportionately in armed conflict. and melodramatically exaggerates regional and local threats.
In short, there is no real reason for liberals to support such a regime. It is high time that Democrats began turning away.
11
I hope that Netanyahu is a passing phase. Even so, he's part of a phase of the coarsening of politics and dialogue around the world. Our own GOP is pretty disgusting in that regard.
An unexpected instance: NPR had a program "Right, Left, and Center." The Right is represented by Rich Lowry. (Who?) He demonstrates the GOP's disdain for rationality and love of gutter politics. Referring to Democratic reactions to Bibi and his re-election, Lowry called them "temper tantrums." Seriously! With that kind of nonsensical support, why would any Israeli not be worried?
An unexpected instance: NPR had a program "Right, Left, and Center." The Right is represented by Rich Lowry. (Who?) He demonstrates the GOP's disdain for rationality and love of gutter politics. Referring to Democratic reactions to Bibi and his re-election, Lowry called them "temper tantrums." Seriously! With that kind of nonsensical support, why would any Israeli not be worried?
5
Perhaps it's time for the U.S. to ask ourselves what we really get from our dysfunctional relationship with Israel. For years, ever since I was a kid, I heard that our "special" bond with Israel was predicated on the fact that Israel was the "only democracy in the Middle East." Is that really enough to put up with this nonsense? Is that really enough to tolerate this disrespect and entitlement? Israel offers us no strategic advantage, no natural resources, nothing in return for the billions of dollars we send and, more importantly, for the defense we provide. Israel has its self-important swagger only because it knows that it can run behind its American Daddy's legs when the boogeymen start howling. We are not Israel's army. We can no longer predicate our foreign policy on what is best for Israel when what's best for Israel is clearly not what's best for America.
11
The future looks bleak. Democrats traditionally are strongly anti-war, anti-violence. Republicans traditionally use military force as an instrument of foreign policy.
For decades, Israel was the victim, subjected to constant war and terrorism. How could any Democrat not support Israel. After 1967, things changed.
Most of these changes are a direct result of terrorism. The Arabs asked for it and Israel gave it to them. However, Israel has moved from a primarily defensive position to an offensive one. As fear fueled by terrorism and libertarian paranoia has pushed the GOP off the deep end to right wing extremism, similar forces have pushed Israel in the same direction. Israel really does have something to fear. GOP fear is self created.
Israel has tried to make itself nearly impregnable to terrorist attacks by walling off the West Bank, controlling the movement of the Palestinian people and Iron Dome. But in doing so, their strength has caused them to be able to do whatever they want. They don't have to play nice anymore. Netanyahu never plays nice.
This has allowed the right in Israel to grow in power. Democrats care about protecting minority rights. Republicans want the majority to run rampant. Israel is doing the same, running rampant.
The situation is bleak. Israel is becoming what they defend against to the joy of the GOP. Israel has become a tool of partisan politics instead of a nation in pursuit of universal justice. Terror caused this.
For decades, Israel was the victim, subjected to constant war and terrorism. How could any Democrat not support Israel. After 1967, things changed.
Most of these changes are a direct result of terrorism. The Arabs asked for it and Israel gave it to them. However, Israel has moved from a primarily defensive position to an offensive one. As fear fueled by terrorism and libertarian paranoia has pushed the GOP off the deep end to right wing extremism, similar forces have pushed Israel in the same direction. Israel really does have something to fear. GOP fear is self created.
Israel has tried to make itself nearly impregnable to terrorist attacks by walling off the West Bank, controlling the movement of the Palestinian people and Iron Dome. But in doing so, their strength has caused them to be able to do whatever they want. They don't have to play nice anymore. Netanyahu never plays nice.
This has allowed the right in Israel to grow in power. Democrats care about protecting minority rights. Republicans want the majority to run rampant. Israel is doing the same, running rampant.
The situation is bleak. Israel is becoming what they defend against to the joy of the GOP. Israel has become a tool of partisan politics instead of a nation in pursuit of universal justice. Terror caused this.
4
Young Dems except those representing the Party itself will not follow the Party line and change their "moral relativism," re Israel. The rightward shift of Netanyahu and his ongoing bad relations with the Obama Administration heighten the understanding of many high school and college age Democrats that it is Israel and its occupation that is the enemy. The fact that the group that Jason Horowitz mentioned on college campuses was Students for Justice in Palestine and not J Street or even the far more left-wing Jewish Voice for Peace identifies clearly the drift away from an Israel-centric view of the conflict and its resolution.
5
"Engagement" and "outreach" are effective only if there's something worth "engaging" about, and more and more people are understanding that the Israel of today is a war-mongering apartheid state they don't want to support in any shape or form.
5
It's hopeless to have "outreach" to younger non-Jewish liberal Democrats if Israeli policy and oppression now repels me, a once-mildly-Zionist 63-year-old Jew, and even has made my father, a typical Jewish-American of his generation (close to 90), extremely detached and somewhat cynical.
So many American Jews are totally disgusted with Israel. I teach college students, very few of whom are Jewish, many of whom are nonwhite, and why should they care about Israel at all except to loathe a country that pretends to be a democracy but apparently envisions a one-state, two-track society of overlords and the oppressed forever.
Israel: Feh!
So many American Jews are totally disgusted with Israel. I teach college students, very few of whom are Jewish, many of whom are nonwhite, and why should they care about Israel at all except to loathe a country that pretends to be a democracy but apparently envisions a one-state, two-track society of overlords and the oppressed forever.
Israel: Feh!
5
The waning Democratic support for Israel might better be termed a maturing relationship. No country, Israel included, should take U.S. support for granted, and it's reasonable to question support for a country that seems to feel entitled to our support and aid but is uninterested in peace and prone to spitting in our faces.
Stop building settlements and start shutting them down and support for Israel will flood back. But if Israel keeps building them, the U.S. should support recognition for Palestine and withhold military aid to Israel.
Stop building settlements and start shutting them down and support for Israel will flood back. But if Israel keeps building them, the U.S. should support recognition for Palestine and withhold military aid to Israel.
4
It seems over the last several years, particularly during Mr. Netanyahu's rein, that the relationship between the U.S. and Israel is much like that between an abused spouse and her abuser. Maybe it's time for the U.S. to say "No more!"
4
Image a world where the newly branded ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) decisively engages with the newly injected armies of Iranian ayatollahs and the declared winner moves on to level another tilted playing field- Palestine. Tunnel vision seems to be the progressive vision for the moment, given the angst in the ink reported by Mr. Horowitz here.
4
There is no Palestinian state, a concept that Netanyahu spole about when he stated the 'one Israeli state' solution.
Gaza, run by mullahs living in another country? Palestinian Authority, who meet and can't amicably decide on coffee or tea?
Israel cannot wait for the next generation after Abbas to lead the Palestinians. The single state with full civil rights given to Palestinians is the only solution. No more swiss cheese maps depicting spheres of influence!
Here's a novel idea: invite Hamas' Gaza to demilitarize and join into Israeli borders.
Gaza, run by mullahs living in another country? Palestinian Authority, who meet and can't amicably decide on coffee or tea?
Israel cannot wait for the next generation after Abbas to lead the Palestinians. The single state with full civil rights given to Palestinians is the only solution. No more swiss cheese maps depicting spheres of influence!
Here's a novel idea: invite Hamas' Gaza to demilitarize and join into Israeli borders.
2
Christians United for Israel, the "largest pro-Israel organization in the United States," was formed in 1992 but was inactive until acquired by Hagee in 2006. It is comprised of Evangelical Christians and is based in that historical haven for Jews, Texas. This is the beating heart of Republican support for Israel. It is as old as yesterday and as deep as today's fashion. This is the firm foundation for Israel's future on which Netanyahu chooses to build his political temple...fine if you only care if it lasts through the election.
4
I'm not a Democrat, just a plain old independent. Not Jewish, but have a son in law who is. Have studied Nazism and their Nazi barbarities towards Jews. Just finished a wonderful book on the capture of Eichmann by Israeli patriots (at a time when our dear country was harboring Nazi war criminals and would not help in the effort to catch this butcher).
The Israel many Americans and I see increasingly is a middle eastern super power that promotes paranoia, and increasingly resembles the sectarian and religious hatreds of the region which are draining our country of treasure and blood. Its Prime Minister has come here to help rattle chains of the far right which often seems to parlay an image of Hitler on to Obama. Republicans, thanks largely perhaps to a rather appalling Bibi loving casino magnate and his big bucks, have not only tried to sabotage talks with Iran which could possibly bring some stability to the region, but in so doing open a channel to the very reactionary forces we are trying to curb. In other words, why in this tiresome and dangerous mix of hatreds should we buy any the horse pucky Bibi shovels at us with impunity and partisan support? I now turn the television off when I see this turkey and will soon be doing the same with Israel if some sanity does not prevail.
The Israel many Americans and I see increasingly is a middle eastern super power that promotes paranoia, and increasingly resembles the sectarian and religious hatreds of the region which are draining our country of treasure and blood. Its Prime Minister has come here to help rattle chains of the far right which often seems to parlay an image of Hitler on to Obama. Republicans, thanks largely perhaps to a rather appalling Bibi loving casino magnate and his big bucks, have not only tried to sabotage talks with Iran which could possibly bring some stability to the region, but in so doing open a channel to the very reactionary forces we are trying to curb. In other words, why in this tiresome and dangerous mix of hatreds should we buy any the horse pucky Bibi shovels at us with impunity and partisan support? I now turn the television off when I see this turkey and will soon be doing the same with Israel if some sanity does not prevail.
14
There was a time when the world mindful of the holocaust set aside land in Palestine for Jews but that was a long time ago. The modern world feels no compelling motivation to turn justice upside down for the sake of events seventy years ago any more than it feels compelled to judge all Germans for the sins of their fathers. Today Israel is judged by the world community for its actions today and those actions are abdominal, antithetical to all America stands for.
7
Maybe, Mr. Netanyahu might telephone the neighboring Arab States and get commitment to deport Palastinies elsewhere. To officially institute israel for Jews only and unlimited settlements (bring Jews home from Europe) and elsewhere. Israel could pay for buses and donkey carts and wagons into other territories and the UN could setup tent cities across the Arab lands. He feels that sense he welcomes far flung Jews then therefore Arab brethren should do the same. This seems to be Mr. Netanyahu's plan and goal.
Do the Democrats and Israel Have a Future? I was surprised to see that question. I was not surprised by the writer's conclusions about the radical left wing of the Democratic party and the extreme liberalism of idealistic black and Latinos who oppose what they see as Israelis occupation of Palestine. Those groups equate Israel's oppression of a minority with their own oppression. The extremism of the right sees Israel as the promised land for their own faithful after the apocalypse. The gap between these extremist groups cannot be bridged by reason. The other gap between Netanyahu and Obama is even greater. Obama sees the world as a place where legal agreements, treaties and memorandums of understanding can prevail. Netanyahu sees a world in which his neighbors would without hesitation, annihilate and massacre every Jew and supporter of Jews. They would wipe Israel off the map.
The question that should be posed is "Do Israel and the U.S. Have a Future?" They probably do but it will be far different than the unquestioned support of the past. During the Gaza war Obama decided that Israeli replenishment of arms and ammunition needed approval. Obama was annoyed that Israel went shopping with speaking to him first. That made Israelis very insecure. It made the Democratic left wing extremist very pleased. Israel is an aggressor and occupying nation. Right wing extremists saw vindication of their belief of apocalypse.
Obama has abandoned Israel. The future will be different.
The question that should be posed is "Do Israel and the U.S. Have a Future?" They probably do but it will be far different than the unquestioned support of the past. During the Gaza war Obama decided that Israeli replenishment of arms and ammunition needed approval. Obama was annoyed that Israel went shopping with speaking to him first. That made Israelis very insecure. It made the Democratic left wing extremist very pleased. Israel is an aggressor and occupying nation. Right wing extremists saw vindication of their belief of apocalypse.
Obama has abandoned Israel. The future will be different.
4
Dermer repeating talking points as Luntz taught him, which is all Bibi does, unless he's backtracking or just outright lying.
Netanyahu pushed hard for taking out Sadaam, said he "guaranteed" it would drastically change the area. He was right, but not as he meant.
What has he done for Israel the last six years? Many provocations in Gaza and West Bank, mowing the lawn, pretending at peace talks, and this latest couple of months showing his true colors: Netanyahu has made Israel more unsafe than ever and has brought more negative attention to himself and Israel. He's made Israel a target for people who weren't that interested in the Palestinian issue. Islamists that don't like Hamas particularly heard his comment about Arabs voting. He's asking to be attacked with his fear mongering.
After Gaza last summer and his repetitions of how under seige they were -but the airport must remain open -we see clearly now. Signing up w/ Adelson and Boehner to snub Obama was a slap to us all. Now he tries to backpedal.
Who gave AIPAC the right to disrespect our president?
They clearly have chosen the right wing of Republican pary. Good luck. No shalom to you.
Netanyahu pushed hard for taking out Sadaam, said he "guaranteed" it would drastically change the area. He was right, but not as he meant.
What has he done for Israel the last six years? Many provocations in Gaza and West Bank, mowing the lawn, pretending at peace talks, and this latest couple of months showing his true colors: Netanyahu has made Israel more unsafe than ever and has brought more negative attention to himself and Israel. He's made Israel a target for people who weren't that interested in the Palestinian issue. Islamists that don't like Hamas particularly heard his comment about Arabs voting. He's asking to be attacked with his fear mongering.
After Gaza last summer and his repetitions of how under seige they were -but the airport must remain open -we see clearly now. Signing up w/ Adelson and Boehner to snub Obama was a slap to us all. Now he tries to backpedal.
Who gave AIPAC the right to disrespect our president?
They clearly have chosen the right wing of Republican pary. Good luck. No shalom to you.
13
it most certainly is not up to the United States to get along with Israel. It is up to Israel to get along with the United States. A not so subtle difference.
88
How appropriate that the article's defence of Israel leads off with Elliott Abrams, one of the point persons for so much American savagery in Central America in the 1980s.
15
Does any of this really matter? Israel doesn't need US financial support: they've become a relatively rich country and US aid is about 1% of their GDP. That aid is tied to restrictions on Israeli tech exports that would more than make up for the loss. The UN is not going to fight its way to build a Palestinian state: the UN doesn't fight, especially against effective armies. Boycotts against Israel would be pointless: the overwhelming amount of the exports that matter are technology, much of which is baked into other tech and too vital to core tech infrastructure to boycott (even BDS uses a large amount of Israeli technology calling for their boycott of the same). Regardless of what liars here say the US has never fought a way for Israel nor has anybody else. If America backed off Israel would quickly become friendlier with China, who actively courts their support and military tech, and Russia. Both would be happy to pull the veto lever at the UN with no conditions.
I've lived here in France a long time and realize that Americans tend to vastly overestimate their importance on the world stage. America matters, but not as much as Americans think. Both the right and the left tend to feel entirely comfortable asserting their will over foreign countries they know little or nothing about: places many of them couldn't find on a map. Democrats and Republicans: America, from what I read, has many internal issues. Focus on fixing those before "fixing" the rest of the world.
I've lived here in France a long time and realize that Americans tend to vastly overestimate their importance on the world stage. America matters, but not as much as Americans think. Both the right and the left tend to feel entirely comfortable asserting their will over foreign countries they know little or nothing about: places many of them couldn't find on a map. Democrats and Republicans: America, from what I read, has many internal issues. Focus on fixing those before "fixing" the rest of the world.
9
Interesting point!
I can see the Israelis helping the Chinese develop their J-31 "Stealth Fighter" and then incorporating it into the I.D.F. Air Force, over the laggard F-35. They could do the same for Chinese IT hardware and software, making it less vulnerable to NSA hacking, raising increasing demand for it in international markets.
Newer and smaller nations often seek the patronage of the greater powers. At inception, Israel obtained the weapons needed for its "War of Independence" from the Soviet Bloc; before 1967, they received those used in the "Six Day War" from France; in 1973, they received replacement weapons necessary to prevail from the U.S. If Europe and the U.S. want to sever their defense and economic relationships with Israel, Russia and China will gladly fill the vacuum!
I can see the Israelis helping the Chinese develop their J-31 "Stealth Fighter" and then incorporating it into the I.D.F. Air Force, over the laggard F-35. They could do the same for Chinese IT hardware and software, making it less vulnerable to NSA hacking, raising increasing demand for it in international markets.
Newer and smaller nations often seek the patronage of the greater powers. At inception, Israel obtained the weapons needed for its "War of Independence" from the Soviet Bloc; before 1967, they received those used in the "Six Day War" from France; in 1973, they received replacement weapons necessary to prevail from the U.S. If Europe and the U.S. want to sever their defense and economic relationships with Israel, Russia and China will gladly fill the vacuum!
3
In earlier years, Bibi was a great advocate for Israel. He had style, grace and spoke and acted like a diplomat. In these last years, his tone and actions reveal a man who is too full of himself. As a secular, liberal American Jew, I still have a friend who has tattooed numerals on her forearm. I support Israel from the heart and monetarily. But I also feel so sad for the large population of Palestinians who are squeezed into a small piece of land and have miserable lives.
Our oldest son married an Austrian girl whose grandfather was a Nazi, not by choice but to protect his family's survival during the war.. When our son went to Austria to meet her family, he was nervous as to how he would be received. They welcomed him with open arms and the grandfather, who was nearing the end of his life said, " The sins of the fathers should not be thrust upon the shoulders of the children. Welcome to the family ". How true.
Our oldest son married an Austrian girl whose grandfather was a Nazi, not by choice but to protect his family's survival during the war.. When our son went to Austria to meet her family, he was nervous as to how he would be received. They welcomed him with open arms and the grandfather, who was nearing the end of his life said, " The sins of the fathers should not be thrust upon the shoulders of the children. Welcome to the family ". How true.
2
As more and more people come to the realization that it has been our unthinking, unconditional support of Israeli takeover of Palestinian lands and oppression of its people that has caused America to be the target of Islamic terror attacks, Israel's support will dwindle throughout America. The last holdouts will be the AIPAC-supported members of Congress and Adelson's Republican servants. Everyone else will understand that backing regressive Israeli policies will only create problems for America. Let's only hope that we come to that point before the Republicans start another Mideast war.
7
Ron Dermer has said that ". . . Israel can go from great strength to great vulnerability very fast.”
And if that happens we can all date it to now and pin the blame on Bibi.
And if that happens we can all date it to now and pin the blame on Bibi.
10
The question is whether the United States and Israel have a future together. The answer is almost certainly, not.
Israel is on a course which demands its total independence from American support. It's time for America and Americans to stop interfering in Israeli affairs. America must attend to its own. Israel is an independent nation state.
Israel is on a course which demands its total independence from American support. It's time for America and Americans to stop interfering in Israeli affairs. America must attend to its own. Israel is an independent nation state.
48
America should stop giving our tax payers 3 billion dollars every year and stop supply arms to Israel. We should stop extend our diplomatic support in international forum like UN so blindly. We should do the right, fair and just thing. Somebody (can't remember the name) said that Israel is the only friend in Middle East but before Israel, we had no enemy. Stop paying money to Egypt and Pakistan too because Pakistan is the center of international terrorism and Egypt,s president Morsi or Sisi are not good human being.
Please Israel - go be independent.
Use your own money, your own troops, your own blood to be independent.
But please, quit putting the United States in front of your actions at the cost of American blood and treasure.
Use your own money, your own troops, your own blood to be independent.
But please, quit putting the United States in front of your actions at the cost of American blood and treasure.
Do they have a future together? Sure, once the Far Leftists who came into power with Obama are removed from office.
4
A great danger has come to this issue, greater than the danger of armed conflict, because it will precede and encourage armed conflict. It is the danger of increased "vocal" armed conflict in discussion of issues which divide the two sides, and those who, feeling persecuted, feeling pushed to the wall, will pushback in anyway they can. This in my opinion, this psychological attitude, is what brought 9/11 to the United States and began a new era of global conflict.
6
It is time for the USA to stop protecting Israel at the UN. If Netanyahu is so great, let him deal with the rest of the world on his own.
8
Ambassador Dermer is not fazed by college students, Democrats or young Jews concerned about Israel's record on human rights. He "thinks[s] the progressive case for Israel is an easy case to make.”
Perhaps not so easy, for when meeting privately with leaders from the black and Latino communities, we are told, Dermer was "defensive and aggressive, browbeating attendees with familiar Israeli talking points."
Let's examine Dermer's approach.
"When I see someone who is on the progressive side of the aisle and they are concerned and say, Well Israel is doing A, and Israel is doing B, I want to engage them, and I want to explain, and I want to put it in context for them."
Here "A" and "B" are evidently euphemisms for things like turning Gaza into an open-air prison, shooting fishermen who stray more than three miles offshore, kidnapping West Bank children in midnight raids, protecting Jewish settlers who steal Palestinian land and water, etc. These types of thing can all be "explained", i.e. seen not as crimes but as acceptable behaviors, if you simply "put them in context".
The right context as provided by Dermer is Israel's positive track record for gay and women's rights. It's okay to oppress Palestinians -- Jewish gays and women are doing fine.
It's no wonder that Dermer's outreach may come across as aggressive, defensive and browbeating. No clear thinking person, whether Democrat or Republican or Christian or Jew, can possibly tolerate such ridiculous logic.
Perhaps not so easy, for when meeting privately with leaders from the black and Latino communities, we are told, Dermer was "defensive and aggressive, browbeating attendees with familiar Israeli talking points."
Let's examine Dermer's approach.
"When I see someone who is on the progressive side of the aisle and they are concerned and say, Well Israel is doing A, and Israel is doing B, I want to engage them, and I want to explain, and I want to put it in context for them."
Here "A" and "B" are evidently euphemisms for things like turning Gaza into an open-air prison, shooting fishermen who stray more than three miles offshore, kidnapping West Bank children in midnight raids, protecting Jewish settlers who steal Palestinian land and water, etc. These types of thing can all be "explained", i.e. seen not as crimes but as acceptable behaviors, if you simply "put them in context".
The right context as provided by Dermer is Israel's positive track record for gay and women's rights. It's okay to oppress Palestinians -- Jewish gays and women are doing fine.
It's no wonder that Dermer's outreach may come across as aggressive, defensive and browbeating. No clear thinking person, whether Democrat or Republican or Christian or Jew, can possibly tolerate such ridiculous logic.
8
Israeli Political System and Democracy is amongst the most, if not the most, fractious and dysfunctional anywhere in the World as it has not been able to, is not and will not be able to resolve the Palestinian file as was most evidenced during the recent elections.
IT is also evident more so than ever that Netanyahu has no intention of working towards the Two-State Peace formula.
THE World has run out of Patience and Time as we can not afford another Intifada in the Occupied Territories or a War in Gaza and that Mr. Obama now has all the "Moral, Ethical and Legal Authority" to put his plans for Two-State solution to a Vote at the UN Security Council in the "Coming Days" with the US supporting it, and not sit back and abstain, as America needs to be seen as Proactive for Peace so to gain credibility in the Middle East and on the International stage.
Israelis are incapable of doing what is Right and WE must act now before more innocent Blood is shed.
IT is also evident more so than ever that Netanyahu has no intention of working towards the Two-State Peace formula.
THE World has run out of Patience and Time as we can not afford another Intifada in the Occupied Territories or a War in Gaza and that Mr. Obama now has all the "Moral, Ethical and Legal Authority" to put his plans for Two-State solution to a Vote at the UN Security Council in the "Coming Days" with the US supporting it, and not sit back and abstain, as America needs to be seen as Proactive for Peace so to gain credibility in the Middle East and on the International stage.
Israelis are incapable of doing what is Right and WE must act now before more innocent Blood is shed.
6
As the Dem Party has become extremely left and secular, they have become anti-Semitic.
We are witnessing this today. Leftist American Jews are secular, hence they vote Dem. The religious Jews in America vote Republican.
We are witnessing this today. Leftist American Jews are secular, hence they vote Dem. The religious Jews in America vote Republican.
5
Democrats have not moved to the left. The entire political spectrum in the US has moved to the right.
The Republicans have moved so far right they are in danger of falling off the flat Earth some of them believe in.
Only about 20 % of Jews vote Republican, which is about the percentage (23%) of the Israeli vote that Bibi received.
If the Jews in Israel, who face the threats of the Arabs in more immediate circumstance than Americans do, only vote 23% for Bibi, why do you think American Jews are going to all become Republicans?
How absurd is that?
The Republicans have moved so far right they are in danger of falling off the flat Earth some of them believe in.
Only about 20 % of Jews vote Republican, which is about the percentage (23%) of the Israeli vote that Bibi received.
If the Jews in Israel, who face the threats of the Arabs in more immediate circumstance than Americans do, only vote 23% for Bibi, why do you think American Jews are going to all become Republicans?
How absurd is that?
Republicans and democrats both need to let Israel go it alone without our money to support them.
70
Never a big fan of President Obama's policies in the Middle East, I am nonetheless surprised by the petulance and animosity he is publicly displaying toward Mr. Netanyahu these days, whose great sin appears to be his devotion to the security of his country. When the Iran deal goes off the tracks, as it surely will one of these days, the Democrats are going to be left holding the bag for recklessly endangering Israel for reasons not much more serious than the President's personal dislike of Mr. Netanyahu. Regardless of their party affiliations and other issues facing the country, no Jewish-American is going to walk into a voting booth for the next twenty-five years without remembering this.
9
“As far as Netanyahu’s right-wing government is concerned, the future is now.” Therein lays danger. Louis VX may never have said “apres moi, le deluge.” It fits, so we’ll have him saying it throughout history for he made a French future a Bourbon future but there was no Bourbon future.
Netanyahu successfully won his domestic political fight in Israel by creating domestic fissures in France and the United States as foreign threats to Israel. Seeing a bleak immediate choice, enough Israelis rallied in defense against a rising anti-Israeli tide in the west. But is not this rising tide of his making? And if so, is it not made to exploit the worst of human nature, as it exists everywhere, but in this case among Israeli voters, to serve Netanyahu.
The worst of human nature exists in France and the United States as well. Will this convenient mess, now inconvenient, simply evaporate?
Netanyahu risked Israel’s future to serve himself. Placing American Democrats, who have been staunch supporters of Israel, in a position of having to choose between being a Democrat or being a true supporter of Israel, when they have already chosen to be Democrats, makes their choice for them and the choice is to become wary of Israel or worse.
What’s there to go wrong?
Netanyahu successfully won his domestic political fight in Israel by creating domestic fissures in France and the United States as foreign threats to Israel. Seeing a bleak immediate choice, enough Israelis rallied in defense against a rising anti-Israeli tide in the west. But is not this rising tide of his making? And if so, is it not made to exploit the worst of human nature, as it exists everywhere, but in this case among Israeli voters, to serve Netanyahu.
The worst of human nature exists in France and the United States as well. Will this convenient mess, now inconvenient, simply evaporate?
Netanyahu risked Israel’s future to serve himself. Placing American Democrats, who have been staunch supporters of Israel, in a position of having to choose between being a Democrat or being a true supporter of Israel, when they have already chosen to be Democrats, makes their choice for them and the choice is to become wary of Israel or worse.
What’s there to go wrong?
1
I admire Mr. Horowitz for trying to bring humor to this complicated situation, but not enough time has passed for Elliott Abrams to be funny.
It is true that Mr. Abrams, with his history of being wrong, dishonest, subversive, and dismissive of human rights could be imagined as a sort of buffoon foil to the figure who used the Chamber of The House of Representatives as a set for a Likud campaign ad contemptuous of the American People and its President.
That would have worked had it not been for the 47. Here the memory of Abrams' service to Ronald Reagan (who knew how to get in good with the Ayatollahs, send a cake) was dredged up again, and cast a pall over Abrams' comedic mien.
It is true that Mr. Abrams, with his history of being wrong, dishonest, subversive, and dismissive of human rights could be imagined as a sort of buffoon foil to the figure who used the Chamber of The House of Representatives as a set for a Likud campaign ad contemptuous of the American People and its President.
That would have worked had it not been for the 47. Here the memory of Abrams' service to Ronald Reagan (who knew how to get in good with the Ayatollahs, send a cake) was dredged up again, and cast a pall over Abrams' comedic mien.
5
Why all the questions? People do not seem to get it. Iran is committed to obtain nukes and use them to destroy Israel. Nothing has changed. Iran will do it and when they do, anyone who is within Israel's borders will not be around to tell you , "I told you so". When the atom bombs hit Israel all the people and their country will be gone forever. That includes the Palestinians. American Jews will not have an historic religious place to go visit any more.
6
It's not my responsibility to ensure anyone "an historic religious place to go visit."
It's an absurd argument.
It's an absurd argument.
3
And why are right wing Christian evangelicals in love with Israel? Because they support a dominionst belief that supports Armegeddon in the Middle East with Israel being a catalyst to bring back the return of Jesus.
2
lecturing to Obama was very apparent. As an American Jew supportive of Israel even then I found Netanyahu an embarrassment.,
myself