A patriotic and able foot soldier does not find the warmth of the hearth and the comforts of home too appealing when he could still hear the distant sound of the bugle. The thought of his comrades dying in the fields of battle beckons him to return to join them...to engage the adversary to the fullest and to pay the ultimate price of the endeavor that is death.
This is camaraderie and patriotism at its best and the underlying element of the spirit of the corp. Those seizing the moment belong to a vanishing breed of men.
Let us salute them.
This is camaraderie and patriotism at its best and the underlying element of the spirit of the corp. Those seizing the moment belong to a vanishing breed of men.
Let us salute them.
4
It is a shame that the partisan politics between the Republicans and Democrats is sending a negative message of disunity to our enemies. Meanwhile, their are brave Americans volunteering to engage with the enemy toward freeing our future of ISIS violent extremists. Our thoughts and prayers are always with those who serve in the U.S. military forces.
3
As a former Marine (Vietnam, 1969-70) I understand the pull to do this. I'm 65 now and not physically qualified to participate, but I get it. I've had a great career in academia, and not without means like so many of these young vets, but the ISIS threat is real, and while not at the scale of the Nazis in the 30s and 40s is nevertheless just as cruel and heartless. Americans have done this many times, as noted in the essay. Good for them.
4
Boots on the ground. It's a start. It is a shame that our president does not have 1 tenth the courage of these men, or concern for those being destroyed by these ISIL scum.
3
As opposed to the last war in Iraq, active involvement by the US (and West) now has gone beyond having a moral basis, it is now a moral imperative. Timid dithering and tentative action over the past 5 years has lead to humanitarian and political disasters in Iraq, Syria and Libya (to name a few)and the creation of ISIL and Boku Haram. Why not allow an international brigade of trained professional volunteers assist in a battle that is increasingly will become our battle.
5
I should think that veterans have a perfect right to decide what they wish to fight for. Their past military experience is all the validation they need to much such enormous decisions.
ISIS was defeated just this past week by a small Iraqi band of soldiers in their town. ISIS is not omnipotent. It has an Achilles heel.
If our guy and gal vets believe they can be of help, those of us who have never served do not have the right to make decisions for them.
I believe these are vets who understand far better than many Americans at present what it means to love your country and be men and women of high moral values.
There has never been a single war in which American military has not left a beneficial lasting presence in war torn countries. Viet Nam is the best example of this. This is a country today that values democracy.
ISIS is a flash in the pan promulgated by their ability to be savage and inhuman freaks of nature. This too shall pass.
ISIS was defeated just this past week by a small Iraqi band of soldiers in their town. ISIS is not omnipotent. It has an Achilles heel.
If our guy and gal vets believe they can be of help, those of us who have never served do not have the right to make decisions for them.
I believe these are vets who understand far better than many Americans at present what it means to love your country and be men and women of high moral values.
There has never been a single war in which American military has not left a beneficial lasting presence in war torn countries. Viet Nam is the best example of this. This is a country today that values democracy.
ISIS is a flash in the pan promulgated by their ability to be savage and inhuman freaks of nature. This too shall pass.
4
It's a shame that these young men are volunteering to fight an enemy that was created by blow-back from the many US invasions, is supported with an unlimited weapons supply from our "allies" Saudi Arabia and Turkey, and has no possible resolution as long as the US continues to promote this ten-way internecine bloodbath with the "moderate ally" players taking different sides very couple of months.
US vets should be discouraged from any involvement in this hopeless debacle.
US vets should be discouraged from any involvement in this hopeless debacle.
1
I guess you missed the part about how ISIS, et. al. are bent on establishing a medieval caliphate--worldwide if possible. And it's not something new that the US somehow created: certain Islamic sects have been working on this off and on for decades.
3
Didn't miss it. I don't buy it. But even if we disagree on that, the rest of my post is the real problem. Allies that aren't, and no plan except perpetual fighting. I don't want my friends and family in (and those who were in) the military to be cannon fodder in any more ill-conceived adventures.
1
When trained to kill you believe killing is acceptable, that a uniform and a weapon transform you.
What we see here is an expression of the same problem we face when recruiting veterans into the police. They bring their culture with them.
If we are going to keep killing people around the world might we be better served to send these people abroad, and leave them there?
What we see here is an expression of the same problem we face when recruiting veterans into the police. They bring their culture with them.
If we are going to keep killing people around the world might we be better served to send these people abroad, and leave them there?
2
Do they take old men with a limp?
2
I don't have the experience of military service to draw upon - but I agree that to ask our men & women to go to war and experience daily life that is hard for me to fully grasp - to live on the edge of life & death - to have citizens who step forward to do this in defense of our country or what We think is right and then expect them to disappear into what is probably for them an insanely bland life of middle class materialism is very difficult. Ask an emergency room doc, a hospice worker, or anyone who lives life on an intense edge - it is often hard to return to how many of the rest of us live. Once again - we & our leaders use our citizens for our wants & needs and then discard them regardless of what has been done or created. Give these guys an outlet where they can help America and yes - at this moment in history - fight a terrifying enemy.
1
The article does a nice job of pointing out that for every one volunteer who knows, at least somewhat, what he is doing, you are going to have about ten goofballs who probably wouldn't be able to hack it in the regular military, like the Japanese "war tourist" recently executed by ISIS. Is it going to be our obligation to rescue one of these flakes when they get caught by ISIS (or whoever)?
1
Good Bless these men who fight for peace and stability in Iraq
3
Throughout history there have been warriors who, at the end of their countries'' engagement in whatever battle, became mercenaries. All, obviously, were quite comfortable with the idea of killing people, and some had additional ideological reasons. Others did not. They simply wanted to kill.
Perhaps the primary motivation of these men was to get back into a battle situation because they enjoyed it; their primary reason could have been ideological; or their motivations could have been a mixture of both. Either way, it was good they were battling against ISIS, especially when you hear of all the people who have run to join ISIS despte knowing the atrocities the group commits.
Perhaps Mr. Maxwell, since he is the American citizen among the two, could volunteer again in the military with a request to be in a training position in Iraq with his own country's military. It doesn't sound like we'll be vacating the premises any time soon.
Perhaps the primary motivation of these men was to get back into a battle situation because they enjoyed it; their primary reason could have been ideological; or their motivations could have been a mixture of both. Either way, it was good they were battling against ISIS, especially when you hear of all the people who have run to join ISIS despte knowing the atrocities the group commits.
Perhaps Mr. Maxwell, since he is the American citizen among the two, could volunteer again in the military with a request to be in a training position in Iraq with his own country's military. It doesn't sound like we'll be vacating the premises any time soon.
3
Unfortunately these men will not have the superb medical backup available to US troops. The treatment of trauma is complex in its organization and surgical skills required represent a specialty in surgery.
1
It is very sad that a man goes to war, because nothing keeps him in his native country. Unfortunately this is a common problem in the United States after the war veterans can not find a place in their own country, can not adapt to civilian life.
3
The U.S. government does not want to send American solders back to the Middle East, but the terrorists, the global war on which the United States has declared, are very strong now and replenish its ranks day by day. Apparently, veterans can not be reconciled with the inaction of the administration.
1
Your government has to be ashamed.
They position your army as the best army in the World, but couldn't find a possibiliy to gather soldiers and machines together to destroy ISIS. So your vets, the men of honor, have to stand up and fight to over your shame
They position your army as the best army in the World, but couldn't find a possibiliy to gather soldiers and machines together to destroy ISIS. So your vets, the men of honor, have to stand up and fight to over your shame
2
Anna - so where does your country stand? Personally, I have served in two of my nation's wars and come from a long line of veterans who have had to fight overseas to address issues which other nations created or were unwilling to address/prevent. I ask - what is your nation doing to fight ISIS? Where will you be when American soldiers fall? Demonstrating against American "imperialism"?
2
If I got your question correct, then y country goes a lot to fight the World terrorism.
Russia is one of the biggest military partners of Syria. We supported the Assad government long before ISIS. And knowing that ISIS was "born" as an independent organization in Rakka, Syria, it'strue to sy that we've done a lot.
But my country has never said that it's our fight
Russia is one of the biggest military partners of Syria. We supported the Assad government long before ISIS. And knowing that ISIS was "born" as an independent organization in Rakka, Syria, it'strue to sy that we've done a lot.
But my country has never said that it's our fight
1
I truly admire people like this, as long as their motives are pure. At least they are getting involved and getting their hands dirty instead of just sitting on the sidelines, shaking their heads in disapproval and then moving on to the next story.
Patrick, good on you for really putting other people first when you don't have to. You're not looking for a promotion or trying to cut some movie deal. Just be careful. And don't give up trying to help and use your expertise off the battlefield. It's much preferable than seeing you in an ISIS video.
Would somebody please tell me why it is Iraqis who are supposed to be the bad guys. It was Saudis who flew into the Twin Towers - not Afghans or Iraqis. Saddam Hussein did not do anything to the US or anywhere else - except fight America's war against Iran. He was a dictator who ran Iraq his way and that suited the rest of the world. You got rid of him, so why then continue killing and imprisoning Iraqis? The whole Middle East has been turned into a total shambles - and now you want to go back and kill more Iraqis. Young Iraqis (and Afghans) have grown up seeing nothing but death and destruction and have probably lost family members etc etc and so are probably a tiny bit angry - ya think! I would have thought America has its own problems to solve without going to other people's countries to create more.
1
Says the guy from a country with a 35,000-man Army precisely because Australia is under the US nuclear umbrella and can get away with it (while selling their natural resources to a nation which may well one day bury them with the products manufactured from them). Oh, and an island nation with no real operational submarines because they allowed the capability to their own to wither away and rely on US naval power to patrol the Pacific for them. BTW - I lived there for two years and worked in a defence (with a "c") capacity.
1
Speaking as an Iraq War veteran, this account features sad and pathetic people who simply felt like they hadn't killed enough brown-skinned folk, and didn't inflict enough destruction and misery upon a place where there's plenty of that to go around already. These two veterans need psychological counselling, which clearly is not on offer in the politically conservative strongholds of Ontario and Texas.
2
Some people go to fight against ISIS but I guess you've already heard that there are around 1000 people (Americans in fact) are fighting for them. Very nice try but useless indeed...
Let's not call these guys heroes - they're war junkies.
4
Well, if he wants to - why not? But what a person you should be to see a war as the only place for you? Sonds like he wants to fight just for fighting, not for his country, not for democracy or people, but just for himself, because it's the only thing he sees his purpose in...
Having deployed to Iraq I have to say that except for a few exceptions, like Falluja, we never really saw an enemy. We saw the results of explosions, we saw IEDs, but the enemy was always diffuse.......and because of the concern about ambush or IED our actions were generally tightly curtailed. It is striking, after WW2 there were a lot of German brides, after Viet Nam a lot of Vietnamese brides, but the number of Arab brides........very very few.......and that might have been a contributing factor as to our failure there. Very few interacted with the Iraqis.....
Yeah, our government likes waging wars abroad. Since George H.W. Bush.
Two companies in Iraq in 1990-91 and 2003. Libya in 2011. Syria mess in 2012 and creation of ISIS by CIA in 2011. We are in Afghanistan since 2001. Sudan 1998. Kill two birds with one rock - we want to impose democracy and stay with clean hands. Guys like Patrick Maxwell do this dirty work.
Two companies in Iraq in 1990-91 and 2003. Libya in 2011. Syria mess in 2012 and creation of ISIS by CIA in 2011. We are in Afghanistan since 2001. Sudan 1998. Kill two birds with one rock - we want to impose democracy and stay with clean hands. Guys like Patrick Maxwell do this dirty work.
1
It's sad that he think that he has nothing to loose.
But at the same time, his actions are quite understandable.
He has nothing to do at home and his pension isn't enough to live good on it
But at the same time, his actions are quite understandable.
He has nothing to do at home and his pension isn't enough to live good on it
2
Finding purpose and dedication beyond the current military/political restraints of the current military force of America is inspiring. These men who place themselves in harms way to protect 3rd world Arabs is up there with Lawrence of Arabia!!!!
4
Disenchantment with civilian life may be part of the reason why men go to fight. But it's probably not the main reason. This made me think of an essay I read a while ago. It's written by a Vietnam war veteran. The title is "Why Men Love War." It's truly honest.
Here it is: http://public.wsu.edu/~hughesc/why_men_love_war.htm
Here it is: http://public.wsu.edu/~hughesc/why_men_love_war.htm
3
It has been reported by those who have participated in wars that the experience is so intense that little in life compares. The recollections of that experience combined with the egregiously brutal and cruel actions of ISIS/ISIL which makes these veterans want to fight to help rid the world of it is completely understandable. However, it is probably not a good idea for them to join in this as private citizens without the approval of our government. They can end up hostages or participating in actions which inadvertently kill civilians or instigate actions which compel the U.S. government to have to alter it's policies.
1
While these folks appear to be sincere, and I think they are
fighting on the right side, it seems like a bad idea for the
government to be deciding whether or on whose side one
should be able to fight in a foreign conflict.
It's not like the US government has such a great track record
when it comes to deciding who their friends and enemies are.
You could go abroad and work as a security contractor for any
number of evil dictatorships and corporations and that would be
fine with the USG, but join up with someone they don't approve
of and you will be "supporting terrorism"? And the government not infrequently moves the goalposts - yesterday's "noble freedom fighters" somehow get reclassified as evil terrorists, or the other way around.
Better that people can decide for themselves where to go and
whom to support and how. Just make it clear that the government is
under no obligation to bail them out if they get in trouble as a result
of their actions.
fighting on the right side, it seems like a bad idea for the
government to be deciding whether or on whose side one
should be able to fight in a foreign conflict.
It's not like the US government has such a great track record
when it comes to deciding who their friends and enemies are.
You could go abroad and work as a security contractor for any
number of evil dictatorships and corporations and that would be
fine with the USG, but join up with someone they don't approve
of and you will be "supporting terrorism"? And the government not infrequently moves the goalposts - yesterday's "noble freedom fighters" somehow get reclassified as evil terrorists, or the other way around.
Better that people can decide for themselves where to go and
whom to support and how. Just make it clear that the government is
under no obligation to bail them out if they get in trouble as a result
of their actions.
1
Gonewest,
The White House has been sending its excellent Newsletter on many issues of interest to Americans, and recently what to understand and recognize about ISIS/ISIL. It is not propaganda, the tone is measured, and while our troops are on the ground now, Veterans who are thinking of returning to combat, or new volunteers who wish to take up the fight against ISIL, there are plenty of written testimonies of what has, and can happen when placing one's life on the line for 'The 'Better Cause'. Call it in search of a second opinion, while maintaining a mind of one's own.
A personal choice, once made, difficult to retreat, and easy for this American to go on about when never having been to the Country called 'WAR'.
The White House has been sending its excellent Newsletter on many issues of interest to Americans, and recently what to understand and recognize about ISIS/ISIL. It is not propaganda, the tone is measured, and while our troops are on the ground now, Veterans who are thinking of returning to combat, or new volunteers who wish to take up the fight against ISIL, there are plenty of written testimonies of what has, and can happen when placing one's life on the line for 'The 'Better Cause'. Call it in search of a second opinion, while maintaining a mind of one's own.
A personal choice, once made, difficult to retreat, and easy for this American to go on about when never having been to the Country called 'WAR'.
1
The return of the Lincoln Brigades? It seems that defending the Kurds and helping them establish a homeland is the only honorable thing left to do.
4
Once a warrior, warrior you would be thereafter. I salute these noble souls for the service they are doing for the mankind. They are no more fighting "for God and country", now they are fighting "for God and humanity". ISIS is the greatest threat to the mankind now. We are aghast at the cruelty displayed by them.
Veterans now fighting these evils are not fighting for money or under government orders or for fame. The urge to serve mankind is the force behind this. Dear brothers, I wish you all good luck. God be wit you. I wish I could be part of this wonderful team of brothers.
Veterans now fighting these evils are not fighting for money or under government orders or for fame. The urge to serve mankind is the force behind this. Dear brothers, I wish you all good luck. God be wit you. I wish I could be part of this wonderful team of brothers.
9
Well said. I agree with you completely. I feel their reasons for wanting to return to combat the evil against humanity is the most noble act possible. I salute these men.
5
I find these men truly great.
11
Nick,
They are truly great, and let us include their families left at home, while remembering that women are also increasingly taking up the military fight against terrorism.
They are truly great, and let us include their families left at home, while remembering that women are also increasingly taking up the military fight against terrorism.
1
The problem with Iraq war veterans is that they have the same problem as Vietnam War veterans. They fought an unnecessary war of choice that ended in failure. the Iraq war was a political fiasco manufactured by ideological zealots in Washington DC, a generation of young lives were shattered by that fiasco.
Put in a position where they had to kill or be killed, there blood shed for a lie, these people are now stuck with the task of making sense of the senseless. Many will now be forced to go to the ends of the earth to find a purpose in life.
Put in a position where they had to kill or be killed, there blood shed for a lie, these people are now stuck with the task of making sense of the senseless. Many will now be forced to go to the ends of the earth to find a purpose in life.
6
I am surprised of the criticism of these people and lack of support from the US. Seriously, if prior to US entry in WWII former US soldiers went and fought the Axis armies, or fought on the side of the White Army in 1917, or tried to prevent Genocide in Cambodia or Rwanda, would we really view them as doing something wrong? In fact, in most of these cases, Americans did just that and they were not branded as criminals. ISIS is the most brutal, violent, horrible group imaginable, and they are the sworn enemy of the US. If, at entirely their own risk (including we won't rescue them out if captured), US soldiers want to volunteer, why does the US have any interest in precluding that, and why is that somehow evidence of bad character? There is a better argument where the issue of who is the enemy if more fluid, but I think we can all agree that ISIS is our enemy and if they stick to fighting ISIS, the US should not care.
5
They should not only care, they should be actively assisting them.
Let's face it. As far as warfare, America is second to none. Millions of American veterans 'back in the real world' -- thrilled by combat experience in Iraq/Afghanistan -- are feeling bored with civilian lives in the US.
In the 16th century, Swiss soldiers -- at the time the most brave and reliable European mercenary soldiers -- were hired to protect the Pope and Vatican. Who knows? in the future, perhaps Americans may replace the Swiss guard at the Vatican.
In the 16th century, Swiss soldiers -- at the time the most brave and reliable European mercenary soldiers -- were hired to protect the Pope and Vatican. Who knows? in the future, perhaps Americans may replace the Swiss guard at the Vatican.
1
Second to none?! We lost Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Yeah I guess we are second to none. I can't think of another country that's lost so many wars.
6
Only our government could see this as not a good thing. Remember the only thing stopping a bad thing is good men stepping up.
6
To go to that country and fight without US Government support is irresponsible and very dangerous. A serious nightmare in the making.
7
I would love to have the chance to pickup Arms and fight against the ISIS that is causing all think havoc everywhere , I am an American that served in the Army and still have an obligation to the American people to protect All brothers and sisters in the United States of America.
4
Speak for yourself. Not all Americans feel the U.S. military has been a force for good in the world, nor do you make us feel "protected".
5
The best way to protect ourselves is to stay home!'
6
The current mess in the Middle East is a direct result of US intervention in the Muslim Civil War. The moderate and conservative Muslims are fighting and the Shia and Sunni are fighting and it is a freaking mess. We should not get involved further with their civil war. NATO countries have already allowed thousands to travel to Iraq and Syria to fight on every side and this have to stop. We will have to make it clear to those people: if you leave, you are not coming back no matter your reason to join a war oversea.
3
So we should just stand back and watch as these lunatics calling themselves ISIS, kill people for not adopting their version of their religion? We should watch them burn people alive, behead people, make children murder for them?
Are you serious? Whatever country has the ability to stop these lunatics should be doing whatever they can. If the U.S. is that country, so be it.
Are you serious? Whatever country has the ability to stop these lunatics should be doing whatever they can. If the U.S. is that country, so be it.
3
@Troy Luchterhand
And what have our past actions to liberate the area from dictators, communist and theocracies got them? Yeah, ISIS/ISIL. We better stop while we can before we replace ISIS/ISIL with something worse that's unimaginable. ISIS/ISIL was unimaginable before as well but we made it real.
And what have our past actions to liberate the area from dictators, communist and theocracies got them? Yeah, ISIS/ISIL. We better stop while we can before we replace ISIS/ISIL with something worse that's unimaginable. ISIS/ISIL was unimaginable before as well but we made it real.
3
I have nothing but respect for Maxwell.
15
Mercenaries can work outside the boundaries of any nation's so-called allegiance to international law and the rules of war.
The USA used proxy mercenaries to fight in the Angolan civil war in the mid-1970s, with the result that some were captured and executed. The Ford administration with Kissinger issued the obligatory "we are outraged" statement upon learning of these executions.
The USA used proxy mercenaries to fight in the Angolan civil war in the mid-1970s, with the result that some were captured and executed. The Ford administration with Kissinger issued the obligatory "we are outraged" statement upon learning of these executions.
7
How does an organization like "Sons of Liberty International," a mercenary band get tax exempt, not for profit status under the federal and state tax laws. This is raw, naked exploitation.
6
Just a call for perspective. We're talking about a very small fraction of former combatants voluntarily returning to fight. Anyone trying to claim a pattern from such a small sampling is off base, especially those who suggest that this is typical behavior of returning soldiers -- "once a soldier always a soldier." If that were the case, the number of Americans on Kurdish front lines would amount to more than a handful. I don't know why former fighters are going back to the middle-east. I suspect that it's a combination of the factors mentioned in the article -- boredom, patriotism, manifestation of battle-induced stress. A trend, it is not.
7
My prayers go with them for their safety. May they be an inspiration to people other countries who must deal with these fanatics. ISIS must be destroyed; there is no other way.
7
Just a few observations on some of the comments:
1. These guys are not idiots who need our false pity. They are guys who have lived at an elevated level of stress and normal civilian life does not give them the excitement, it bores them silly. Maybe the solution is to find some challenging civilian activity - like being a paramedic or ER doctor or skydiver, going to fight ISIS is not the only choice. But having done time in Iraq, and built some connection to the land and people it is very understandable that they feel something pulling them back there.
2. Acc to some reports 22 soldiers kill themselves each day, which means in a year over 8,000 soldiers are killing themselves! We lost under 4,000 on 9/11, and a similar number during the war in Iraq. We need to recognize the damage we have done with endless war to our fellow citizens who volunteered to serve.
3. Al-Qaeda was formed by "veterans" of the conflicts in Afghanistan (vs USSR) and Bosnia. They came home from those fights and were bored with civilian life and decided they needed to get some action again and went looking for a big enough enemy. Our govt and citizenry need to engage these young veterans and keep them from feeling alienated and frustrated. We have done enough harm to them, blown enough billions for the wrong things. Let us invest a few billion to start setting things right.
1. These guys are not idiots who need our false pity. They are guys who have lived at an elevated level of stress and normal civilian life does not give them the excitement, it bores them silly. Maybe the solution is to find some challenging civilian activity - like being a paramedic or ER doctor or skydiver, going to fight ISIS is not the only choice. But having done time in Iraq, and built some connection to the land and people it is very understandable that they feel something pulling them back there.
2. Acc to some reports 22 soldiers kill themselves each day, which means in a year over 8,000 soldiers are killing themselves! We lost under 4,000 on 9/11, and a similar number during the war in Iraq. We need to recognize the damage we have done with endless war to our fellow citizens who volunteered to serve.
3. Al-Qaeda was formed by "veterans" of the conflicts in Afghanistan (vs USSR) and Bosnia. They came home from those fights and were bored with civilian life and decided they needed to get some action again and went looking for a big enough enemy. Our govt and citizenry need to engage these young veterans and keep them from feeling alienated and frustrated. We have done enough harm to them, blown enough billions for the wrong things. Let us invest a few billion to start setting things right.
12
Nice analysis. On the macro scale our country is committing suicide.
4
Working for jobs for all Americans, access to free healthcare for all Americans should be the first priority.
Fighting in other countries which do not pose a threat should be the last priority.
Fighting in other countries which do not pose a threat should be the last priority.
11
Whose priority? Your priority?
4
These poor kids, raised in the armed forces, now feel aimless unless their fighting some "Evil" Islamic enemy. What a sad commentary on how the military negatively affects the lives of our service men and women.
17
Here's a funny thing. A lot of people are saying, well we shouldn't go fight the Daesh because they're not our problem. They're not going to make it to the shores of America, they've only been killing Americans who've gone over there, they slaughter huge numbers of innocent civilians but they're not Americans, so it's not our problem. We shouldn't get involved in wars or save anyone, we're fat and happy here in front of the TV, so stop bothering us about this.
So that's fine, a lot of people would say the same around the world I'm sure. But what this means is, these brave men going over there is also not your problem, nor is anything your problem really until it gets to your front door, so stop complaining about it. Nothing to do with you, go back to watching Duck Dynasty or whatever.
So that's fine, a lot of people would say the same around the world I'm sure. But what this means is, these brave men going over there is also not your problem, nor is anything your problem really until it gets to your front door, so stop complaining about it. Nothing to do with you, go back to watching Duck Dynasty or whatever.
13
There's nothing funny about having representative government and a chain of command that starts and stops with our civilian government. Not everyone supports an invasion of another swath of land after 14 years of unending war.
That doesn't give a US trained soldier the right to take our political paralysis into his or her own hands. Vigilantism isn't funny, brave or patriotic.
That doesn't give a US trained soldier the right to take our political paralysis into his or her own hands. Vigilantism isn't funny, brave or patriotic.
1
My impression is that ISIS fighters for a number of reasons, including its symbolism and resonance in Muslim history, prefer to fight like raiding parties that sweep into town, take care of business, then leave and move on to another foray. I think this is why their rule is unrecognizable to any formal army; they really don’t think about holding the hill after taking it, so to speak, because they are not really defending anyone. And if you call a battle, they may not show up, or they will show up elsewhere.
Once a soldier always a soldier. He doesn't just turn off when time's up. The soldier within wakes to the call of the flag...even if our leaders are too afraid to fly it. His instincts are honed to protecting those he loves, including his country and its freedoms that blood-won democracies provide. This is not just America. Citizens across the free world are apprehensive as to the drums beating in their psyche, and in their own back yards. Former soldiers are returning and yearning to contribute to what they instinctively believe to be a materialising threat. A threat to human decency, spreading insidiously to all corners of the world.Their is no home-front...yet, so they go away to find one. Its their way of keeping the evil at bay, at least for the moment. They are a manifestation of failed global leadership. They give voice to the answers demanding of leadership by millions of citizens across the face of this globe. Do something! They are. May God bless them and bring them home...satisfied at the try.
4
When you create a soldier it is a difficult transformation to undo.
It may start as a Patriotic, righteous cause, but there are unintended consequences.
There is a reason that the Roman army remained on the battlefield and the conquering proceeded permanently.
It may start as a Patriotic, righteous cause, but there are unintended consequences.
There is a reason that the Roman army remained on the battlefield and the conquering proceeded permanently.
5
These kids just don't want to acknowledge that we lost the was in Iraq... big time. Ditto for Afghanistan and Vietnam as well.
2
It is funny, if not sad, how the headline states that ex-soldiers are disenchanted with 'peacetime' life.
The problem I see is that, if these self-selecting volunteers fighting ISIS get captured by ISIS, they would expect the country to go to heroic extent to free them.
That is irresponsible. If anyone is disenchanted with 'not fighting', they need to see a shrink, not travel to Iraq to fight.
Enough said.
The problem I see is that, if these self-selecting volunteers fighting ISIS get captured by ISIS, they would expect the country to go to heroic extent to free them.
That is irresponsible. If anyone is disenchanted with 'not fighting', they need to see a shrink, not travel to Iraq to fight.
Enough said.
7
"Enough said". Far from it. But free speech is inconvenient. They are adults and taking a risk for what they believe in.
The question should be. Why is liberal American so tolerant of genocide?
Enough said.
The question should be. Why is liberal American so tolerant of genocide?
Enough said.
3
In a way, how is this different from a former vet going to work for a security contractor? We recognize that the security contracting firms are hired by the US government to outsource certain functions; they need people with certain skills, so they hire them.
One could argue that we are outsourcing fighting ISIS to the Kurds; we are not yet ready to do it ourselves. These guys have gone voluntarily where their skills are needed. I don't know if it pays more than WalMart, but I'm sure it feels more meaningful. I do worry for them if captured or injured, but I'm sure they know the risks.
When ISIS burns an American alive in a cage, or when they bomb the Vatican, we might see more former vets make this choice. ISIS is no "ordinary" group of people fighting for their political cause supposedly in the name of their faith. They believe they are the harbingers of the apocalypse; as such, they can scorch the Earth and leave nothing for themselves. They expect to die. I don't know what a just war is, and I'm not sure there is one. But these people must be stopped. They want to destroy almost everyone, and almost everything.
One could argue that we are outsourcing fighting ISIS to the Kurds; we are not yet ready to do it ourselves. These guys have gone voluntarily where their skills are needed. I don't know if it pays more than WalMart, but I'm sure it feels more meaningful. I do worry for them if captured or injured, but I'm sure they know the risks.
When ISIS burns an American alive in a cage, or when they bomb the Vatican, we might see more former vets make this choice. ISIS is no "ordinary" group of people fighting for their political cause supposedly in the name of their faith. They believe they are the harbingers of the apocalypse; as such, they can scorch the Earth and leave nothing for themselves. They expect to die. I don't know what a just war is, and I'm not sure there is one. But these people must be stopped. They want to destroy almost everyone, and almost everything.
5
The inability of a returning soldier to reintegrate into civilian life is a wound -- every bit as real as if that soldier had been shot or had been injured by an IED. Unfortunately some people, including some commenters here, speaking out of a very misguided notion of what it means to 'support' returning veterans, seem to want to encourage these wounded soldiers to place themselves in a situation that is likely, if anything, to exacerbate their injuries instead of trying to help them heal their wounds.
2
Military service has already taken these men's lives, in a sense. Everything they grew up valuing (family, career, freedom, democracy) now is boring to the point of unbearability, so back they go to the only life that they can live and justify. They aren't fighting for their country because we are not threatened by, nor really at war with, ISIS. They have reason to hate ISIS, yes, as we all do. We all have reason to find many groups in the world appalling for their brutality. We've also learned that this is not a problem with a military solution, or many of us have. These guys are, I think, just more hapless victims of militarism. Tragic, but not heroic
26
Yes, a long term solution will not be military in nature but in the short term, there is ONLY a military solution. What else is there to do? Shall everyone sit down, have a nice little chat, and hope the ISIS fellas all say "shucks, we're sorry, we'll forget about all our zealotry and just go home now."? And I don't think you or anyone else has the right to say how these veterans feel about anything.
4
Reading some of these comments I realize that Veteran status is not well understood in the US. Notice all the controversy over the Sniper movie. We need more dialogue. Abut their sacrifice their choices in life after service. It seems since I grew up in the Vietnam era what we didn't treat those Veterans very well.
There needs to be more dialogue about this. We can't keep sending young men abroad in the military and then later criticize them later for what they may wish to do--including serve further in a military capacity.
I like what he's doing!
There needs to be more dialogue about this. We can't keep sending young men abroad in the military and then later criticize them later for what they may wish to do--including serve further in a military capacity.
I like what he's doing!
4
I understand; it does not matter if I approve or not, but I understand, because in life we all yearn for meaning and purpose. Our troops are trained in skills of leadership and combat that are seldom useful in civilian life. US public funds are spent to make sure people are adroit at fighting militias, and being in the front line, etc. Why would we judge somebody for wanting to use those skills while making an investment in the world being a better/safer/more peaceful place in the long run? It is their vision and their perspective. It is easy to judge when sitting in a chair, with no first hand experience. To jump on a plane to Iraq, use your heard earn dollars to buy a plane ticket and face reality, that is hard. it is courageous. Perhaps idealistic and futile, who knows, but we can't deny that it is incredibly brave.
Plus, have you ever been in conflict, of any kind (with family, a neighbor, etc.)? If you have, you would know that in order to be done fighting you need to be done with the fight. If in your heart, you are not done, then you are not done.
Plus, have you ever been in conflict, of any kind (with family, a neighbor, etc.)? If you have, you would know that in order to be done fighting you need to be done with the fight. If in your heart, you are not done, then you are not done.
4
Every war leaves behind a residue of discharged soldiers who cannot adjust to civilian life. In his memoirs Sherman wrote about an intrepid spy he often sent deep into enemy territory, scouting for months at a time; many very hazardous missions. After Vicksburg fell Sherman asked him what he wanted to do next, thinking he would ask for a furlough. But the spy merely said "something bold". After the war he shot himself.
Some nations create a formal sanctuary and safety valve for such types, their "wild bunch": membership in mercenary units that operate independently from their regular armed forces, like France's fabled "Foreign Legion". Perhaps we should do the same.
I suspect many ex-soldiers now floundering in civilian life -- most adrift, but some committing violent crimes and even suicide -- would survive, flourish even -- as mercenaries deployed in places where the Army and Marines can't go: Ukraine, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq. If it's to be "boots on the ground" again perhaps their feet belong in them. Perhaps they should be first.
Some nations create a formal sanctuary and safety valve for such types, their "wild bunch": membership in mercenary units that operate independently from their regular armed forces, like France's fabled "Foreign Legion". Perhaps we should do the same.
I suspect many ex-soldiers now floundering in civilian life -- most adrift, but some committing violent crimes and even suicide -- would survive, flourish even -- as mercenaries deployed in places where the Army and Marines can't go: Ukraine, Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq. If it's to be "boots on the ground" again perhaps their feet belong in them. Perhaps they should be first.
28
"residue of discharged soldiers"
If that doesn't sum up the Democratic Party's view of veterans then nothing does. Not humans, not defenders, not Citizens. Nope, residue. Sad.
If that doesn't sum up the Democratic Party's view of veterans then nothing does. Not humans, not defenders, not Citizens. Nope, residue. Sad.
8
I think there was a code word hidden in the piece that triggered an automatic pivot in the narrative. Liberals will now treat this article as a union recruitment tool. They never let a crisis go to waste.
1
A cheap shot unworthy of the problem's seriousness. Grant, Pershing, Sherman, and Eisenhower wrote about it with dismay.
It has nothing to do with partisan politics or political parties. Sherman also wrote, famously, "war is cruelty and you cannot refine it" because it maims so many -- victors and the vanquished alike.
All societies confront this post-war socialization problem. A movie titled "The Best Years of Our Lives" depicted how three WW-2 veterans dealt with i for better or worse; depicted it quite frankly, even brutally for those times (1946). Isolationist sentiment during the run-up to WW-2 was informed in no small part by the terrible readjustment problems experienced by many returning doughboys of WW-1 that led many to regard that war as a mistake.
Homer wrote about it in the "Odyssey".
It has nothing to do with partisan politics or political parties. Sherman also wrote, famously, "war is cruelty and you cannot refine it" because it maims so many -- victors and the vanquished alike.
All societies confront this post-war socialization problem. A movie titled "The Best Years of Our Lives" depicted how three WW-2 veterans dealt with i for better or worse; depicted it quite frankly, even brutally for those times (1946). Isolationist sentiment during the run-up to WW-2 was informed in no small part by the terrible readjustment problems experienced by many returning doughboys of WW-1 that led many to regard that war as a mistake.
Homer wrote about it in the "Odyssey".
3
Marquis de Lafayette, Baron von Steuben, Baron de Kalb, Count Pulaski and Thaddeus Koscuiosko are just a few of the many well known idealists who came to America to help our fledgling nation gain its independence. Could there be a day when "Maxwell" is a street name to be found in many a faraway community thanking them for their contributions to freedom?
15
This guy reminds me of another gung ho Texan, Audie Murphy, the most decorated American soldier of WWII. His action is far from unprecedented. I'm thinking of the Yanks who flew during the battle of Britain and the Flying Tigers of China. Also in China, Frederick Townsend Ward, who led the ever victorious army during the Taiping rebellion, where he is buried today.
9
Far be it for me to judge Mr. Maxwell's motives.
We hear of civilians from Western countries traveling to Syria to support the Daesh cause. Many if not most of them have no military background. We judge these people differently, don't we?
We hear of civilians from Western countries traveling to Syria to support the Daesh cause. Many if not most of them have no military background. We judge these people differently, don't we?
1
Of course we judge them differently. The ISIS volunteers kidnap, massacre and enslave civilians. There is no moral equivalence.
3
When the Shia militias take back towns and slaughter the Sunni's, when the moderate Syrian rebels take Syria and slaughter the alawite's they won't be sending video's to the Western Press but their will be moral equivalence.
I can only applaud these men who are fighting ISIS.
Please look away if you don't have an issue with ISIS murdering Christians, Kurds, and Yazidi and raping their women and young girls.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/middleeast/un-report-isis-abuse-...
After fighters from the Islamic State militant group attacked her village in northern Iraq in August, an adolescent Yazidi girl was abducted, raped several times by different men and then sold in a public market as a sex slave.
The episode is one chilling example from a United Nations report released Thursday that details a litany of atrocities committed by Islamic State militants — and Iraqi government forces and associated militias — against civilians in Iraq. Most troubling are the examples of “gross violations” of international law committed from July 6 to Sept. 10 against Iraq’s most vulnerable civilians, women and children, who find themselves in the path of fighters from the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL.
Women and girls were raped and sold as sex slaves.
In early August, militants from the Islamic State abducted up to 500 women and girls from a village in southern Sinjar and reportedly sent 150 of the unmarried women and girls to Syria, “either to be given to ISIL fighters as a reward or to be sold as sex slaves.”
Please look away if you don't have an issue with ISIS murdering Christians, Kurds, and Yazidi and raping their women and young girls.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/04/world/middleeast/un-report-isis-abuse-...
After fighters from the Islamic State militant group attacked her village in northern Iraq in August, an adolescent Yazidi girl was abducted, raped several times by different men and then sold in a public market as a sex slave.
The episode is one chilling example from a United Nations report released Thursday that details a litany of atrocities committed by Islamic State militants — and Iraqi government forces and associated militias — against civilians in Iraq. Most troubling are the examples of “gross violations” of international law committed from July 6 to Sept. 10 against Iraq’s most vulnerable civilians, women and children, who find themselves in the path of fighters from the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL.
Women and girls were raped and sold as sex slaves.
In early August, militants from the Islamic State abducted up to 500 women and girls from a village in southern Sinjar and reportedly sent 150 of the unmarried women and girls to Syria, “either to be given to ISIL fighters as a reward or to be sold as sex slaves.”
12
Sex slavery (especially involving teenagers) is alive and well in the US, but no one wants to talk about it. I have no judgment towards the soldiers that want to fight ISIS, perhaps they should if they feel they must, but we have battles here that are slowly, but surely eroding the fiber of this country.
And you cannot help someone else if your own house isn't clean and expect positive results..
Just saying...
And you cannot help someone else if your own house isn't clean and expect positive results..
Just saying...
Really? Was the Northern House clean when Lincoln invaded the South? Were New York and Boston citadels of tolerance and freedom? Far from it. The North was a bigoted and intolerant society but they did not believe in slavery. Millions of free white males served and fought to end slavery. In your world view they were fools.
6
I applaud the willingness of these volunteers to fight for a good cause. It is astounding to me that so many liberals (I count myself as one of them) do not distinguish between just and unjust wars. War is morally neutral in itself; it is the cause for which it is waged that defines jus ad bellum (the just war). Da'esh (ISIS) is evil because its fundamentalist religious ideology is wrong and anybody who fights them engages in a justified warfare. And yes, I am sure Da'esh fighters consider themselves to be righteous martyrs and the West - the evil invaders. So what? Their cause is still wrong.
11
Societies have never known what to do with lower income, jobless, young males. They aren't settled enough to breed and pay taxes, and they get into trouble, so they get sent to war, which seems to suit them. As the future automates, they will not be the only unnecessary humans.
1
They are not "unnecessary humans". Far from it. Without men like him there would be no United States. No democracies. No free press.
10
There's a better alternative than playing war, for veterans who don't want to get stuck in menial jobs. Take advantage of your taxpayer-funded education benefits and make something of yourselves like the millions of us who've gone before you did.
The real problem is, these guys love war for its own sake, as evidenced by the 60 Minutes segment last week.
The real problem is, these guys love war for its own sake, as evidenced by the 60 Minutes segment last week.
2
I am also a veteran. I obtained a BSEE in 1986. The career has neen satisfying, but quite dull compared to four years in the Marine Corps. The veterans who are volunteering to fight ISIS are taking a different route. Education is not the answer to everything. And 60 Minutes? They present stories to sell, and nothing else.
4
I like to think of myself as a liberal. I have for most my life. But the kind of attitudes and remarks I see her tells me that what makes a liberal today is a degree of apathy and willingness to self-delude that I really can't associate with.
The atrocities that ISIS has committed warrants action to abolish them. It's not about East or West, Muslim or Christian. When one commit such horrors against innocents and defenseless, it's the responsibility of a civilized world to respond. To equate people wanting to fulfill that duty with the people committing the atrocities, as some commenters here have, is unconscionable.
If that is the intention of these men, I wish them the very best. And they deserve respect.
The atrocities that ISIS has committed warrants action to abolish them. It's not about East or West, Muslim or Christian. When one commit such horrors against innocents and defenseless, it's the responsibility of a civilized world to respond. To equate people wanting to fulfill that duty with the people committing the atrocities, as some commenters here have, is unconscionable.
If that is the intention of these men, I wish them the very best. And they deserve respect.
17
What passes for liberal these days is the most deformed sense of morality imaginable.
5
People are free to live as they wish and to accept the consequences but the government can and should consider whether what they are doing compromises national policies and creates de facto foreign policies without the consent of the people's representatives. If it does, then these people can and should be answerable for their behavior. There is likely to be a different take on the behavior of individuals who join ISIS in comparison to those who join those fighting ISIS, but both are doing exactly the same thing. Laws must cover all who do the same thing, so it might be better if these veterans did not do this.
It is heartbreaking that soldiers can site peace-time atrocities of places like Wal-Mart and the utter disregard for the decency of human life here.It is a pity that people who have served in the American military return to a situation in the US that is so grim that some select to return.
The world view exhibited by these warriors is so skewed to a region that has known nothing but extreme unrest and supreme exploitation.As sophisticated as they are as fighters, they lack the understanding of the basic mistake they are participating in.The deep seated immaturity of grown men feeling unfulfilled without bad guys to spar with is a choice that sadly reflects the actual lack of choice of people who live by the options they are given by the local Wal-Mart.
When the former American soldier said "they eat flatbread and rice" with a tone of "I will if I have to, but I like cheese and crackers and hot pockets and pizza rolls. This is what I'm fighting to bring to these good dudes." Sorry for putting words into his mouth, but in his own words "Texas, George Bush, everybody loves George Bush". In a nation rent asunder by that aggressive, war-monger president, I would expect a more inclusive view where the people were at least skeptical of the Americans who have so much money and resources to expend disrupting their country.
I would recommend a complete removal of the option of war to the soldiers who return from these bleak, hopeless places and a rediscovery of what America is good for.
The world view exhibited by these warriors is so skewed to a region that has known nothing but extreme unrest and supreme exploitation.As sophisticated as they are as fighters, they lack the understanding of the basic mistake they are participating in.The deep seated immaturity of grown men feeling unfulfilled without bad guys to spar with is a choice that sadly reflects the actual lack of choice of people who live by the options they are given by the local Wal-Mart.
When the former American soldier said "they eat flatbread and rice" with a tone of "I will if I have to, but I like cheese and crackers and hot pockets and pizza rolls. This is what I'm fighting to bring to these good dudes." Sorry for putting words into his mouth, but in his own words "Texas, George Bush, everybody loves George Bush". In a nation rent asunder by that aggressive, war-monger president, I would expect a more inclusive view where the people were at least skeptical of the Americans who have so much money and resources to expend disrupting their country.
I would recommend a complete removal of the option of war to the soldiers who return from these bleak, hopeless places and a rediscovery of what America is good for.
1
This is truly noble work, and I completely applaud these men for volunteering to take the fight directly to the enemy. There is so much empty talk of "heroism" nowadays, but in my mind these men are the real "heros"--putting it all on the line to fight ISIS, perhaps the most "evil" force on the planet since the Khmer Rouge or the Nazis, and doing it essentially pro-bono. This is humanity at its best: I'd put them in the same category as the MSF doctors on the front lines fighting Ebola.
7
I wonder why, if he enjoyed being in the military, he left the military when at his age he still had a long career ahead of him, had he chosen to stay.
I have no problem with Americans who want to fight ISIS. I do have a problem with our policy for fighting ISIS. If we are to kick them out of the territories they now hold, that means someone else will have to run those territories who has the support of the people who live there. The people of the Sunni provinces in Iraq hate the Shiite government in Baghdad, so who is that going to be? We have a pretty good record when it comes to defeating regimes we don't like. We have a lousy record when it comes to replacing them with something better. We certainly failed in that regard in Iraq and Afghanistan. Does anyone really believe we can do better this time around?
I have no problem with Americans who want to fight ISIS. I do have a problem with our policy for fighting ISIS. If we are to kick them out of the territories they now hold, that means someone else will have to run those territories who has the support of the people who live there. The people of the Sunni provinces in Iraq hate the Shiite government in Baghdad, so who is that going to be? We have a pretty good record when it comes to defeating regimes we don't like. We have a lousy record when it comes to replacing them with something better. We certainly failed in that regard in Iraq and Afghanistan. Does anyone really believe we can do better this time around?
2
These guys sure have some moxie. I wish they had an easier time finding something suited to them that was a bit closer to home and less dangerous.
2
The US military trained these people, at great expense, to be good at their jobs. If they want to share that expertise with others who pose no direct threat to the US, let them. Nothing they do is a secret. They don't have any super powers. They have training, discipline, and a methodology. If he wants to use them to attack ISIS, why not? Because he'll get in the way of our well-laid plans?
43
If our soldiers feel it their duty to return to fight the enemy our politicians created through years of ignorance and ineptitude, then they are far better citizens then the rest of us. If the threat of danger and the spirit of adventure lure them into the deserts of Syria and Iraq to fight an army of murderers, thieves, and rapists, while the rest of us stay hidden from the world in the confines of our suburbanite abodes, then their volunteer acts of sacrifice say far more about the human spirit than we civilians and our normative desires for peace ever could. While our politicians can't so much as figure out the distinction between "forwards" and "backwards," our veterans are deciding to take matters into their own hands, and kudos to those with the heart to follow through with it, whatever their individual motivations for leaving the States might be.
8
Assad's slaughter of his own people while the US stands by is what stuns me. Another Holocaust is going on in Syria. We had no reason or purpose for invading Iraq. Now we have reason to invade but do nothing. Mister Maxwell is showing some character in our place.
8
Gosh, I can see this story kicks of a lot of hyper link memories, my patriarchal phallocentric moment memory just brought back the line 'When 2 men fight over a woman it's really the fight they want'.
Took a couple of years of Men's Groups for me to admit that.
Took a couple of years of Men's Groups for me to admit that.
6
Disenchanted has nothing to do with it - some people simply enjoy the excitement of wars and battles and fighting. And, yes, killing people. Not to put to fine a point on it, but they are trained killers. No doubt that American Sniper fellow would have been there ...
4
This is a profoundly disturbing article: former soldiers, unable to readjust themselves to the 'boredom' of living ordinary, mundane lives in the civilian world, or who are, like the soldier featured in the article, disappointed that they "never got to fire a shot" during their time in the service, volunteering their services to foreign military groups in the fight against ISIS. The very fact that they cannot readjust to civilian life is an indication of the psychological and emotional damage they have suffered as a result of their service in Iraq and/or Afghanistan. Reading the readers' comments, while most seem to grasp this, there are a surprising number of comments from other readers who interpret the concern over this as 'criticizing' or being unsupportive of these soldiers. To these other readers, I pose this question: just how supportive of these soldiers are you when you seek to glorify the psychological and emotional damage they have suffered, rather than encouraging them to seek treatment that might heal those wounds?
14
What a reflection of our society that the people we choose to revere as heroes are little more than death-addicted adrenaline junkies who buy into the wildly simplistic 'good guy/bad guy' narrative with their lives. But when a doctor returns from fighting a legitimate battle (ebola) overseas, we put them in a cage and criticize them for going in the first place.
8
I am too old to volunteer along with them. I got my discharge at Ft. Hamilton decades ago. I wish them a safe return. I too get very angry when I see that British guy with the knife in his left hand and when that woman from Arizona was killed while doing volunteer work.
10
I salute Patrick Maxwell, as I salute all veterans.
I am not pro-war, but I understand why some men fight, having lived through a war. Unlike those who live in war torn countries, it is hard for many of us Americans to fathom why anyone would want to fight. It is hard for those of us who have lived in a peaceful America that was never invaded / attacked, except for 9/11, which shook us to the core. Imagine being attacked daily, weekly, yearly—losing our home, not being able to go to school, not being able to go to work and earning a living to support our family, llet alone a fulfilling career.
I can understand why veterans like Mr. Maxwell have a hard time adjusting back to consumption-driven civilian life. It’s hard to find an anchor in a sea full of races to acquire and consume a long list of wants, which does not fulfill our human need to answer the call to serve something higher, larger than oneself. I'll share this below...
“Instead of categorically disclaiming war as an evolutionary backfall into animal territoriality, or blaming industrialization... or burying our combative urges—we need to embrace our warrior spirit. Wars are the work of man, we must discover how they feed a hunger (or even a love) that we as a people refuse to nourish. By discovering what needs war answers, perhaps we can design activities that fulfill them, which don’t endanger the life of the planet.” – (In Search of The Warrior Spirit by Richard Strozzi-Heckler)
I am not pro-war, but I understand why some men fight, having lived through a war. Unlike those who live in war torn countries, it is hard for many of us Americans to fathom why anyone would want to fight. It is hard for those of us who have lived in a peaceful America that was never invaded / attacked, except for 9/11, which shook us to the core. Imagine being attacked daily, weekly, yearly—losing our home, not being able to go to school, not being able to go to work and earning a living to support our family, llet alone a fulfilling career.
I can understand why veterans like Mr. Maxwell have a hard time adjusting back to consumption-driven civilian life. It’s hard to find an anchor in a sea full of races to acquire and consume a long list of wants, which does not fulfill our human need to answer the call to serve something higher, larger than oneself. I'll share this below...
“Instead of categorically disclaiming war as an evolutionary backfall into animal territoriality, or blaming industrialization... or burying our combative urges—we need to embrace our warrior spirit. Wars are the work of man, we must discover how they feed a hunger (or even a love) that we as a people refuse to nourish. By discovering what needs war answers, perhaps we can design activities that fulfill them, which don’t endanger the life of the planet.” – (In Search of The Warrior Spirit by Richard Strozzi-Heckler)
4
They arrested a mercenary vet fighter who helped fight Assad last year citing a federal law against U.S. mercenary actions overseas. I wonder why that law doesn't apply here but applied to those helping moderate Syrians fight Assad?
1
It is not a good thing when human beings are disenchanted with normal life and require to fight and kill other human beings for the sake of the excitement.
We might as well have mercenary armed forces for people who can only adapt to that vocation.
We might as well have mercenary armed forces for people who can only adapt to that vocation.
2
Yep, that's the modern America we all know & love. A society that invents a new "enemy" so every incoming generation of our bored youngsters can be taught to become killing machines by our imperial military, and back home a gun culture where the boogeyman lurks behind every shopping mall ..
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/airman-killed-standoff-polic...
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/airman-killed-standoff-polic...
10
>
Well good luck to you. I cannot wait to read the stories of PTDS from these guys, and I'd assume the VA is not going to pick up the tab, should you become seriously injured and not be able to work.
This is a very bad idea, but whatever floats your boat. Just don't lay your problems on us when it all goes south.
Well good luck to you. I cannot wait to read the stories of PTDS from these guys, and I'd assume the VA is not going to pick up the tab, should you become seriously injured and not be able to work.
This is a very bad idea, but whatever floats your boat. Just don't lay your problems on us when it all goes south.
16
That's PTSD. I'm sure Mr. Maxwell appreciates your concern while he goes forth and does something regarding what he believes in - and is well-trained to do -, rather than snarking about it while safe in a Starbucks leather chair. If he gives that any thought at all.
5
>
He is free to do as he pleases, but do not come back complaining. It is his choice he should be the one that has to live with it not the rest of us.
Note to Ike, I'm a Vet.
He is free to do as he pleases, but do not come back complaining. It is his choice he should be the one that has to live with it not the rest of us.
Note to Ike, I'm a Vet.
3
As am I. Two wars, thirty years in the Marines, regular and reserve.
People against this will be the first ones to scream for a soldiers help if the enemy ever makes it to their neighborhoods.
8
Except that they're not coming to your neighborhood, just like the V.C. never were, just as there were not and still are not Reds under your bed. We've needlessly spilled far too much American blood over the years on the paranoia and narcissism of people who see people making trouble on the other side of the globe, and automatically assume what they're really after is your house with a pool and a two-car garage.
7
I guess 9/11 was an anomaly......nothing intentional there.
Fight them there or, sit back and they will make it to our shores.
Fight them there or, sit back and they will make it to our shores.
For Whom the Bell Tolls.
That speaks volumes, doesn't it?
That speaks volumes, doesn't it?
7
Maxwell picked the wrong Kurdish organization. He'd be on front lines if he'd signed on w/ YPG instead of Peshmerga (which leans whichever way the wind blows from oil companies).
Then again, all of the above are simply warring tribal groups ... until proven otherwise. Where is the ideology? Iraqi Kurds don't have it, they have luxury condos, instead. No matter where anyone turns there is 'fighting for the right to consume'.
'Stealing the oil' turns out to to be not much of a motive for anything.
Then again, all of the above are simply warring tribal groups ... until proven otherwise. Where is the ideology? Iraqi Kurds don't have it, they have luxury condos, instead. No matter where anyone turns there is 'fighting for the right to consume'.
'Stealing the oil' turns out to to be not much of a motive for anything.
5
If we remove the nationalistic labels, borders, political interests or self interests, and instead view the world of humankind as one in terms of inherent good vs. inherent evil - then the position these gentlemen have chosen is clear and makes perfect sense. In other words – they have chosen to fight evil, not ISIS, and are doing so as members of mankind, not America.
10
All fine and good, but will they then get VA benefits for the injuries they suffered as volunteers?
japarfrey – no, they won't. They are ineligible under Title 5 –U.S.C. 2108: "war" means only those armed conflicts declared by Congress as war.
3
I am continually stunned at the inability of the typical American (and columnists for the NYT as well apparently) to grasp that ISIS members are absolutely the same as these restless warriors. They are idealist volunteers trying to bring about a better world as they see it. The main difference is that they are locals, not foreigners who don't understand the people who live there.
Muslims don't need Christians to come and save them from themselves. This is not the 12th century. Get over yourselves and shut up about the new Crusade by another name. Americans should just stay out of the rest of the world, since they clearly haven't a clue. ISIS didn't attack the US or any other Western country. I expect that will change now though.
Muslims don't need Christians to come and save them from themselves. This is not the 12th century. Get over yourselves and shut up about the new Crusade by another name. Americans should just stay out of the rest of the world, since they clearly haven't a clue. ISIS didn't attack the US or any other Western country. I expect that will change now though.
8
However, they have killed and beheaded Americans. They makes a difference.l.
6
So you think beheading innocent people, throwing gay people to their death from a height because they're gay, crucifying people for being the wrong religion, and setting people on fire in front of a crowd for entertainment, you think all that is good stuff? This isn't the 12th century but the Daesh is acting like it is, and that's why we have to save whatever civilized people are left in the Mideast from them. And your view of them is so clueless I'm wondering if you know anything at all about the area.
7
ISIS members are the same as these restless warriors? Idealistic volunteers siimply seeking a better world? For whom? My God!
5
While I applaud Mr. Maxwell's efforts I keep going back to the paragraph that mentions the menial jobs.
Jobs that are literally less desireable than fighting in a war are the same jobs GOP Presidentual hopeful Rick Perry is constantly boasting about.
This is the kind of economy the GOP has crafted since the days of Mr. Reagan.
If you don't want to work for peanuts, there's always WAR!
Jobs that are literally less desireable than fighting in a war are the same jobs GOP Presidentual hopeful Rick Perry is constantly boasting about.
This is the kind of economy the GOP has crafted since the days of Mr. Reagan.
If you don't want to work for peanuts, there's always WAR!
31
Kudos to those committed to freedom who have served to needs of mankind with no interest in personal gain. These are the same people that have helped to build the world democracies. I pay homage to all of these people. They are more than freedom fighters, they are heroes.
9
Decently enough the most noble mission of any American soldier I've read about.
Major props to the soldier in this story. Fighting the good fight!
Major props to the soldier in this story. Fighting the good fight!
11
Winning a war requires more than the courage of an individual. It requires the commitment of nations...and well-thought-out plans and use of resources. These "heroes" are throwing their lives away for people (Americans) who are more worried about the health of their favorite football player than they are about Syrian children...or US soldiers.
3
"After a solid career in the military...(h)e drifted from job to job, working construction, tending bar and pedaling a bicycle taxi." This probably described Mr. Maxwell and many young enlistees before their career in the military. So many veterans went into the military because they could see their future of low wage jobs. The military promised job training and education to recruits. Neither of which changed the trajectory of most these young people's lives. This story is also about our inability to integrate young people into meaningful roles in our society. Mr. Maxwell has a lot to offer, but in our individualistic, pull your self up by your bootstrap culture, he is alone. Perhaps some of us are hard wired to in our need for communalism, the need to feel allegiance to something greater than ourselves.
17
I understand the view here at the NYT is far more liberal than my own but now I see the huge gulf between the men I fought with in the Marines and a large percentage of the readers here. I find it frightening to see how quickly many reading this article would put these young Americans in the same category as the ISIS fighters. Undoubtedly some who have travelled there are not exemplars of what we hope American principles should be and Mr. Maxwell specially mentions that.
But I fought with men like Mr. Maxwell in the Marines and would trust him with my life. We sent him to do a miserable job and he did it well, now he returns to try and secure the sacrifices he and his brother Marines made earlier as well as to protect people who desperately need protection.
Given a choice between standing with Mr. Maxwell and having your readership at my back...let's just say my view of what American principles are varies wildly from more than a few here.
But I fought with men like Mr. Maxwell in the Marines and would trust him with my life. We sent him to do a miserable job and he did it well, now he returns to try and secure the sacrifices he and his brother Marines made earlier as well as to protect people who desperately need protection.
Given a choice between standing with Mr. Maxwell and having your readership at my back...let's just say my view of what American principles are varies wildly from more than a few here.
35
I agree, as I have stated elsewhere in this thread.
Just this morning I drank some bad coffee in the dark of my house and the smell sparked a memory of freezing/scorching mornings surrounded by the sounds of other Marines trying to shrug on heavy gear for the day ahead. I thought to myself at the time that there was no place I would rather be than there, at that time, with a job to do and surrounded by good men (sorry, no women in my unit at that time) ready to do it. So this morning I thought - "I miss them". And then I got on with my day's routine.
Just this morning I drank some bad coffee in the dark of my house and the smell sparked a memory of freezing/scorching mornings surrounded by the sounds of other Marines trying to shrug on heavy gear for the day ahead. I thought to myself at the time that there was no place I would rather be than there, at that time, with a job to do and surrounded by good men (sorry, no women in my unit at that time) ready to do it. So this morning I thought - "I miss them". And then I got on with my day's routine.
5
I'm with you on this. After reading the story I mostly thought for his safety and upon his eventual return home I hope he can find peace. But he is a hero.
4
Not to mention that this so-called "army" called ISIS is nothing more than a collection of armed gangs, bank robbers and rapists. Ordinary people are no match for them. I don't know if these men can stop it, but I hope they can. They were trained to stop this stuff, and now they are going to use that training. They would be better off sitting in an office, or warehouse?
Richard Boyle's Vietnam war memoir "Flower of the Dragon," published while the war was still going on, recounted the urge of many soldiers and veterans to return to Vietnam even though they didn't actually believe in the war. The war was still "the real world," civilian life a dream. I see a parallel here.
21
As the article and many readers mention the Spanish Civil War, which was is may still be considered the "prelude to WWII". The Nazi regime was supplying Franco and the Nationalists with arms and ammunitions, where as England, France and the US provided little if any support.... we know how both wars ended, so history is telling us something that "passively" many are attempting to side step once again.
The collective societies that make up the human race will continue to wage war against each other with the aggressors always taking advantage to over take a society where a passive mindset trying to avoid war actually makes it more inviting for the aggressor to attack....
The collective societies that make up the human race will continue to wage war against each other with the aggressors always taking advantage to over take a society where a passive mindset trying to avoid war actually makes it more inviting for the aggressor to attack....
4
Why do we assume we know enough from this article to judge Mr. Maxwell? I’m not suggesting that cognitive dissonance is reason enough for him to “return to battle”; but, it has to be extremely difficult (no matter how illogical the original precept) , for service men and women to return home and watch their commitment and sacrifice spiral into the abyss that comprises Iraq today.
I salute Mr. Maxwell for his service to our country and only wish him the best of luck. If we extend criticism – can we direct it toward the gutless politicians who are too quick to commit the lives our servicemen and women and then not provide the healthcare, educational and jobs on the back end of their service to our great country. Every vet should be gainfully employed – they have enough issues to “sort out” from their commitment to each and every one of us. God bless each of you and may you find meaning in whatever path you choose.
I salute Mr. Maxwell for his service to our country and only wish him the best of luck. If we extend criticism – can we direct it toward the gutless politicians who are too quick to commit the lives our servicemen and women and then not provide the healthcare, educational and jobs on the back end of their service to our great country. Every vet should be gainfully employed – they have enough issues to “sort out” from their commitment to each and every one of us. God bless each of you and may you find meaning in whatever path you choose.
22
We call it an Islamic State while knowing that it is neither Islamic nor a State.
Daesh is the name to use not ISIS as the West and israel love to use in order to bash Islam. Don't call them Islamic - it's what they want. The Muslim world calls them Daesh and we should too.
Daesh is the name to use not ISIS as the West and israel love to use in order to bash Islam. Don't call them Islamic - it's what they want. The Muslim world calls them Daesh and we should too.
17
You of course realize that "Daesh" is an Arabic acronym for a phrase which translates to "Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant". So, either way, they are getting what they want.
4
Tony, we don't need to call it by a different name.
When terrorists who are Islamic - behead, burn, rape young girls, sell young girls, murder cartoonists, burn down churches....
we don't need to call them Islamic, but they still are Islamic.
When terrorists who are Islamic - behead, burn, rape young girls, sell young girls, murder cartoonists, burn down churches....
we don't need to call them Islamic, but they still are Islamic.
3
this is where our use of the designation "unlawful combatant" comes back to haunt us.
seriously, these folks are criminals. they have signed up to fight and kill for foreign concerns. if this is legal, it should be fine for say a retired DEA agent to pick up some work with a Mexican cartel.
seriously, these folks are criminals. they have signed up to fight and kill for foreign concerns. if this is legal, it should be fine for say a retired DEA agent to pick up some work with a Mexican cartel.
6
That's a silly comparison. The DEA and the Mexican cartels are antagonists. The groups fighting ISIS are synergistic. I.e. those who fight ISIS do not fight against US interests. Those who join ISIS are fighting against the US and commit treason by definition.
4
today's friends are tomorrow's enemies and some of those fighting ISIS are officially classified as terrorist organizations. I don't think that these mercenaries are obtaining some sort of blessing from the state dept before signing on with a particular group.
1
Sorry, Student, but I fail to see the "moral equivalence" that makes the Kurds the equivalent of a Mexican [Drug] Cartel.
Do you know that the Kurds are Muslims as ISIS claims to be?
Do you ALSO know that the Kurds, nevertheless, risk their OWN lives to protect the Iraqi Chaldean Christians, who have lived peacefully in Iraq for about 1800 years, until ISIS started to exterminate them, just because they are not Muslim? You can see this on a Youtube video.
The Chaldean Christians still speak Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke.
Do you know that the Kurds are Muslims as ISIS claims to be?
Do you ALSO know that the Kurds, nevertheless, risk their OWN lives to protect the Iraqi Chaldean Christians, who have lived peacefully in Iraq for about 1800 years, until ISIS started to exterminate them, just because they are not Muslim? You can see this on a Youtube video.
The Chaldean Christians still speak Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke.
2
Why doesn't the US State Department take the same view of Russians fighting in Ukraine against the fascist coup leaders in Kiev?
7
Just give them cyanide capsules if they're ever captured. The risk that these individuals could be part of a future YouTube execution video is pretty high. Their personal choice becomes an inflammatory incitement for another ill-advised war.
6
Well, Patrick Maxwell was never going to get much support from NYT readers and especially the commenters. Maybe he did something stupid. Maybe his motives are muddled. But I find it hard to accept, as many have stated here, that he is somehow a counterpart of an ISIL volunteer, minus "the religious fervor." Like most people, he can see the undiluted evil of this army of fanatics. Unlike those who smugly condemn him, he wants to do something rather than just have an opinion.
21
Many homegrown extremists in the West were converts who had little exposure to the faith, or education in it.
In Chicago in October, two brothers, ages 19 and 16, and their 17-year-old sister were detained at the airport on their way to Turkey to join the Islamic State. Three girls from Denver, one as young as 15, were stopped at an airport in Germany the same month on their way to join militants in Syria.
In Chicago in October, two brothers, ages 19 and 16, and their 17-year-old sister were detained at the airport on their way to Turkey to join the Islamic State. Three girls from Denver, one as young as 15, were stopped at an airport in Germany the same month on their way to join militants in Syria.
1
At least two of us didn't smugly condemn him. Read all of the comments.
Retired Marine
Retired Marine
11
Most Islamic extremists are indoctrinated in their mosque.
They don't pick up their beliefs coaching soccer.
They don't pick up their beliefs coaching soccer.
1
This is evidence of the premise of Chris Hedges book, "War is a Force that Gives Our Life Meaning." Soldiers who live so close to death feel an emptiness when they return home. They are quite literally, "war junkies."
Yes, they are risking their lives and the well-being of their famllies. And they may well be hurting the cause in the long run -- the last thing Iraqis need is more evidence of the charge that this is an east vs. west conflict. More Americans on the ground could mean more militants, anxious to rid the region of American imperialsm. This helps explain Obama's hesitancy as well.
Yes, they are risking their lives and the well-being of their famllies. And they may well be hurting the cause in the long run -- the last thing Iraqis need is more evidence of the charge that this is an east vs. west conflict. More Americans on the ground could mean more militants, anxious to rid the region of American imperialsm. This helps explain Obama's hesitancy as well.
32
"the last thing Iraqis need is more evidence of the charge that this is an east vs. west conflict"
It is an east vs. west conflict, or since you are afraid to say it, an Islam vs. west conflict. Don't get me wrong, this is not a conflict between most Mulslims and the west, but the groups ISIS, Al Qaeda and others DO view it as such a conflict. The simple existence of western society with freedom of speech (freedom to offend), women's rights and so on is enough for the fanatics, it doesn't matter to them if there are westerners over there or not.
It is an east vs. west conflict, or since you are afraid to say it, an Islam vs. west conflict. Don't get me wrong, this is not a conflict between most Mulslims and the west, but the groups ISIS, Al Qaeda and others DO view it as such a conflict. The simple existence of western society with freedom of speech (freedom to offend), women's rights and so on is enough for the fanatics, it doesn't matter to them if there are westerners over there or not.
6
I can see from the comments that support for our Veterans is really about an inch deep... More than anything, the reaction to this story reinforces my belief that the majority of people that 'thank us for our service' have no real understanding of the complexities of what our service means to us. I whole heartedly opposed the invasion of Iraq as we were going in, but I was there. And over the years, we tried to do something greater than most people will ever endeavor, and that was to help stabilize and rebuild a country (in Iraq) after our political leaders made the reckless choice to take us there. The fact that people are clueless that it wasn't all about killing, but that the killing part is sometimes necessary, and now more than ever with these ISIS barbarians terrorizing the world.
My brother left the service and I'm leaving very soon. You know who wants us on our quest to continue our service to the Nation? Walmart. Really, what good are we going to do working for a corporation that can barely pay its employees while its family founders...well, we know the story. So, to blame Veterans for not being excited about the opportunities of great American enterprise and for doing something that they think might mean something (the Kurds appear to be the one people we can have hope in!) points to the shallow entitlement of those who will forever sit on the sidelines.
My brother left the service and I'm leaving very soon. You know who wants us on our quest to continue our service to the Nation? Walmart. Really, what good are we going to do working for a corporation that can barely pay its employees while its family founders...well, we know the story. So, to blame Veterans for not being excited about the opportunities of great American enterprise and for doing something that they think might mean something (the Kurds appear to be the one people we can have hope in!) points to the shallow entitlement of those who will forever sit on the sidelines.
200
Re "who wants us on our quest to continue our service to the Nation? Walmart."
It was Walmart that wanted you before your service too.
People generally enlist because of the absence of options, sorry to say.
It was Walmart that wanted you before your service too.
People generally enlist because of the absence of options, sorry to say.
3
Shallow entitlement? What's shallow is knowing that an invasion is not right, and then participating in it anyway. For what? Glory? Patriotism? We needed you here at home to stand on the sidelines and be a vocal and visible opponent of that invasion. And if I was rebuilding a country my own country had destroyed I would feel apologetic and a bit sheepish, not superior. Real courage is speaking out for right when no one else will, not just going along with the crowd lest you be thought an outsider. I'm sure it was brutally hard coming home to few career opportunities, but this is something you share with the rest of the 99%. We are all in that together. I hope you take a stand on WalMart by never shopping there and by telling everyone you know why. THAT is service to the nation too.
1
Bravo.
2
Disenchanted or not, I feel that that these men are fighting for a just cause. ISIL is a horrible entity and if they feel strongly enough to fight against this horrible crime against humanity and they are aware of all the risks involved I say more power to them! They have my support and not criticism. Just because they are not fighting for our country per say they are fighting a threat that could possibly be ours too if not dealt with. Just because they will be fighting with the Shiite militia does not make them less American. I salute their bravery.
16
"Driven by a blend of motivations — outrage over ISIS’s atrocities, boredom with civilian life back home, dismay that an enemy they tried to neutralize is stronger than ever — they have offered themselves as pro bono advisers and riflemen in local militias."
This statement really tells it all. These volunteers find life back home boring, so they want to leave and get the bad guys, wherever they are; they are outraged by ISIS's atrocities, but not by those of their own country; and they are dismayed by the continuation of an enemy they don't understand at all, or can even successfully identify.
Talk about misguided.
This statement really tells it all. These volunteers find life back home boring, so they want to leave and get the bad guys, wherever they are; they are outraged by ISIS's atrocities, but not by those of their own country; and they are dismayed by the continuation of an enemy they don't understand at all, or can even successfully identify.
Talk about misguided.
11
So, are you saying these people should be vigilantes or bounty hunters in the US? Make an entire new police force? What are you suggesting they do?
2
They should speak out against the wars the United States, Canada and several other western countries are waging in the Middle East. They should find some meaning in life other than fighting and killing.
4
That's not in their resume! US war is capitalism at its 'finest'
2
If there were only reasonable moderates weighing the pros and cons on one side, and then genocidal ideologues like ISIS on the other, all the moderates would end up on the chopping block. As a moderate weighing the pros and cons I'm thankful there's people like Patrick Maxwell that choose to fight to stop genocidal ideologues. Not that ISIS is a significant threat to America, but I empathize with the Kurdish and Yazidi moderates that are bewildered by ISIS, and I'd rather not see Iraq go the way of Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge.
12
It must be very confusing for dual citizenship Americans who "want to defend their Syria" (or pick another country) to find themselves arrested, tried, and given long jail sentences here, in the UK and France, while the respective governments and newspapers celebrate those who go fight as mercenaries on some side because they miss the action or whatever other reason they provide. Those we prosecute have often taken what for them is a moral stance.
Taking up arms against the US is (or should be) unambiguously illegal, but we should either stand aside when people go to "defend their mother country" regardless of whichever side our confused leaders and reporters (at some point in time since it varies over time) think is "the good side" or, make it unambiguously illegal to go fight for any other country.
Ironically it is often illegal (material support for terrorism) for those with families in these countries to try to send money home - or even to donate to charities that treat the casualties in such regions.
We should make clear exactly what is and is not illegal, and why, rather than letting this process be driven by sound bites in the service of the War On Terror.
Taking up arms against the US is (or should be) unambiguously illegal, but we should either stand aside when people go to "defend their mother country" regardless of whichever side our confused leaders and reporters (at some point in time since it varies over time) think is "the good side" or, make it unambiguously illegal to go fight for any other country.
Ironically it is often illegal (material support for terrorism) for those with families in these countries to try to send money home - or even to donate to charities that treat the casualties in such regions.
We should make clear exactly what is and is not illegal, and why, rather than letting this process be driven by sound bites in the service of the War On Terror.
4
What's confusing about it? The middle east terrorist groups are beheading American aid workers and other westerners and displaying their crimes on the internet. They train their members to murder civilians in our countries and call for our destruction. But you think ISIS volunteers are going to the middle east to "defend their home countries"?
2
Wow. I hope these guys understand that if captured they will be publicly decapitated, for their families and the world to see.
Foolish on their part, misguided bravado. Come back home.
Foolish on their part, misguided bravado. Come back home.
6
They are not cowards.
5
Do you see the word cowards anywhere in my post? NO.
I said they're misguided, thinking that it's their duty to try and change anything in someone else's country. They need a war, it gives them purpose, so this one is one with a moral compass, in their eyes. ISIS IS evil, very. When our govt. decides it's time to fight them then the troops can go over prepared. This lone wolf thing won't change anything, except bringing back coffins of US soldiers or seeing them executed on TV.
I said they're misguided, thinking that it's their duty to try and change anything in someone else's country. They need a war, it gives them purpose, so this one is one with a moral compass, in their eyes. ISIS IS evil, very. When our govt. decides it's time to fight them then the troops can go over prepared. This lone wolf thing won't change anything, except bringing back coffins of US soldiers or seeing them executed on TV.
2
"More than anything, they don’t like ISIS and want to help,"
Utter nonsense. More than anything, they were somehow born and bred for fighting and killing, and ISIS presented a good opportunity to do so in a reasonably acceptable manner. Did you hear the Marine talk about his disappointment at never having fired a shot during his time as a Marine.
See, this is why you don't need to thank these volunteer mercenaries for their service. They are doing this because they want to, not because they have to, and frankly, it is troubling to contemplate why so many in America want to kill without being told to kill.
Utter nonsense. More than anything, they were somehow born and bred for fighting and killing, and ISIS presented a good opportunity to do so in a reasonably acceptable manner. Did you hear the Marine talk about his disappointment at never having fired a shot during his time as a Marine.
See, this is why you don't need to thank these volunteer mercenaries for their service. They are doing this because they want to, not because they have to, and frankly, it is troubling to contemplate why so many in America want to kill without being told to kill.
18
In fact, this Marine sounds exactly like the Jake Gyllenhaal character in "Jarhead." A movie not complimentary about the motivations of the soldiers, and even less so of the muddled motives of the country which indoctrinated them to be "warriors."
1
Probably fighting side by side with Iranians. Oh the irony!!
8
When you train someone to fight and you send him to war, it can be difficult for them to turn it off. The urge, the need to fight, is still very much alive and kicking inside some of our veterans.
It would be nice if there was better assistance offered to those soldiers who are having a difficult time making the transition from military to civilian life. It would also be nice if the Saudis would let their armies get their clothing dirty by fighting ISIS themselves.
It would be nice if there was better assistance offered to those soldiers who are having a difficult time making the transition from military to civilian life. It would also be nice if the Saudis would let their armies get their clothing dirty by fighting ISIS themselves.
10
What do professional soldiers do when there is no war to fight? They find one.
This is not a new phenomanea, just the latest iteration of something that has been going on for thousands of years. French, German, Swiss professional soldiers flocked to America during our revolution to serve in the Continental Army. During our civil war, both the Union and Confederate armies accepted the service of hundreds of European professional soldiers who wanted to see active service no matter where it might be. During WWII, Americans who served in the British Royal Air Force, and those who flew with the Flying Tigers in China were glorified in movies.
People like Mr Maxwell may not like killing so much as they find purpose and fulfillment in being soldiers. There is nothing wrong with being a freelance, but freelances are sometimes inconvenient to governments.
This is not a new phenomanea, just the latest iteration of something that has been going on for thousands of years. French, German, Swiss professional soldiers flocked to America during our revolution to serve in the Continental Army. During our civil war, both the Union and Confederate armies accepted the service of hundreds of European professional soldiers who wanted to see active service no matter where it might be. During WWII, Americans who served in the British Royal Air Force, and those who flew with the Flying Tigers in China were glorified in movies.
People like Mr Maxwell may not like killing so much as they find purpose and fulfillment in being soldiers. There is nothing wrong with being a freelance, but freelances are sometimes inconvenient to governments.
7
It is the right approach to ban Western volunteers from travelling abroad and fighting alongside foreign forces, be they friendly militias or terrorist groups! If war crimes are committed, their countries could be held responsible.
Warzones have always attracted droves of men, teem with idealism and a passion for adventure. Patrick Maxwell, Dillon Hiller are not the only ones who feel bored, once returning home from a battlefield. Some journalists feel the same! Unlike civilians, who want to flee a war, these people seem to miss the thrill of living on the edge. They need to have nerves of steel and loads of luck if they manage to stay alive and be unhurt!
Warzones have always attracted droves of men, teem with idealism and a passion for adventure. Patrick Maxwell, Dillon Hiller are not the only ones who feel bored, once returning home from a battlefield. Some journalists feel the same! Unlike civilians, who want to flee a war, these people seem to miss the thrill of living on the edge. They need to have nerves of steel and loads of luck if they manage to stay alive and be unhurt!
3
I was in the French Foreign Legion after Viet Nam. I was disgusted with our government and country and wanted to have pride in something again. I was in Chad and then Zaire where I was wounded and had to be discharged. There ain't nothing like being a real soldier. I have a lot to look back on and have many lifelong friends.
9
Since September 11, 2001 only .75 % of Americans have volunteered to put on an American military uniform and risk life, limb and blood.
What have they wrought to benefit and better the lives of people in the Middle East in the name of the American people that was worthy of their sacrifice?
What have they wrought to benefit and better the lives of people in the Middle East in the name of the American people that was worthy of their sacrifice?
1
It is inspiring to hear the brave story of American and Canadian heros like Mr. Maxwell and Mr. Hiller. They rise to confront the threat of radical Islam while our own government not only turns its back on them, but sadly, undermines their effort.
10
This article has an odd tone. At first glance Mr Maxwell seems like a good man who wants to do the right thing and use his training to that end. I am not writing to judge him, because I have hardly done as much good an the world as he likely has; I am going to say that I have always had a deep fundamental problem with declaring the enemy "the bad guys." Robert E. Lee refused to even call the Union "enemy." While the core of the Islamic State is surely full of the worst people, the men in fire fights may simply be fighting for what they believe is right and not so privy to the beheadings and immolations or the reasons behind them. They are surely not innocent, and so fighting them is justified, but that fighting must be justifiable at the moment of taking each life on the battlefield. On the flip side of the coin is Vietnam, where the US and South Vietnamese regime were surely just as much the bad guys as the southern NLF. A small minority of our soldiers and marines participated in deplorable acts there. With all that in mind, I fear Mr. Maxwell's actions may be more about himself and his own psychology than doing good. This is just a humble cautionary word from an observer; in the end I respect his choices and I am thankful for men as decisive and fearless as he.
5
Obviously the military indoctrination works only to well with these examples. What is not working is the return to cilivian life for these young people who would rather kill than be ordinary citizens. Maybe the required enlistment period should be thirty years in hopes that the idea of being a fighter might grow old and obsolete.
1
I wish these brave men the best of luck, hope they come home safely from the conflict. Everything about their motivations makes sense to me, particularly recognizing the need to eliminate the Daesh. The Daesh are a horde of barbarian vermin, it's the duty of all civilized folks to turn them into fertilizer, for the good of civilization and the planet. And these guys are taking that upon themselves, rather than waiting for politicians to figure it out, so I commend them highly.
Before anyone asks, well why don't you go then, I have no real military training and I've got too much to lose here. But when my parents have passed on, when my niece is grown up a little, and when I get a diagnosis of terminal cancer or the like, it wouldn't surprise me at all if I head over there to take out as many Daesh as I can, as my last action in life. Wiping them out has to be done, and I applaud anyone who will contribute to that goal.
Before anyone asks, well why don't you go then, I have no real military training and I've got too much to lose here. But when my parents have passed on, when my niece is grown up a little, and when I get a diagnosis of terminal cancer or the like, it wouldn't surprise me at all if I head over there to take out as many Daesh as I can, as my last action in life. Wiping them out has to be done, and I applaud anyone who will contribute to that goal.
3
This demonstrates America's deplorable inability to care and provide for our heroic veterans who have risked so much for so little in return. We need to spend as much effort on retraining and reintegrating veterans as we do to train raw recruits. Then, perhaps, we will be a country worth fighting for.
2
Wait a minute--I thought that part of Obama's Grand Bargain with Iran that Kerry has peddling for months was that America was going to bribe--oops--persuade Iran to help us fight ISIS in exchange for some vague promise that Iran would postpone building a nuke capable of obliterating Tel Aviv until at least the year 2025.
1
"...Stuck in menial jobs..." Oh yeah, like what most of us do everyday. How come our parents who served in the military in the 20th century didn't come home with that attitude ? My dad was thrilled that the Korean conflict ended soon after he was drafted in the early 1950s.
7
#1 he was drafted
#2 you could work for a livable wage back then
#2 you could work for a livable wage back then
4
Just a few of the thousands of vets who can't really readjust to civilian life. Just as in the aftermath of Viet Nam, this is a problem we'll be dealing with for decades. Nobody thinks about the guys who fight but eventually have to come home when they support more military action.
ISIS is violently repulsive. I don't have a problem with what these guys are doing.
8
I'm wondering......are there any studies that try to understand why men, in particular, who have served in the armed forces, seem to long for a return to fighting the enemy? I have noticed a significant rise in the number of men who are going to fight ISIS or even some who are going to join ISIS.
I'm concerned because I've never noticed this trend in our country. And so I begin to imagine that perhaps there's an inherent trait in men that longs to fight, to engage in battle, or to be principled in rules of right and wrong or in morality.
The country seems to be on the edge of exploding. We see all the -isms raising their ugly heads. There's never a day goes by where I here stories of anger, of hate, or fear, of judging others we don't understand. Why are we not really getting loud about this? Or, just maybe, I'm the one who is paranoid.
I still love my country. But I also love justice, peace, equality, and sincerity. I'm not finding that too often these days.
I'm concerned because I've never noticed this trend in our country. And so I begin to imagine that perhaps there's an inherent trait in men that longs to fight, to engage in battle, or to be principled in rules of right and wrong or in morality.
The country seems to be on the edge of exploding. We see all the -isms raising their ugly heads. There's never a day goes by where I here stories of anger, of hate, or fear, of judging others we don't understand. Why are we not really getting loud about this? Or, just maybe, I'm the one who is paranoid.
I still love my country. But I also love justice, peace, equality, and sincerity. I'm not finding that too often these days.
1
I commend Pat for his brave service to fight ISIS. Americans have done this previously in the Spanish Civil War. We are a free people and we can choose to do what we want on our own without government intervention. The big question is what would the government do if a person of firm muslim faith would go and fight with ISIS? Freedom goes both ways!
1
I think it is amazing how the state department can rattle its sabers over in Iraq to stop a former U.S. marine from flying all the way back to there to fight on his own dime but back here the Firemen in the city of Detroit can`t even get new fire trucks because there is zero dollars in city coffers to pay for them. I understand that it is two different types of government involved here but please someone ........give me a break.
3
Another good reason for the people in the middle-east to hate Americans.
6
Because we're sacrificing ourselves, taking ourselves away from peace and prosperity to die in their desert, in order to save them from a swarm of homicidal lunatics. Yeah, makes a whole lot of sense.
1
What a change from the consistent drumbeat of our news media reporting on Westerners leaving their countries and volunteering for ISIS. We now have Westerners enlisting in militias who are combating ISIS. This is a major blow to ISIS. They can no longer point to the presence of US troops to gain support among the locals.
These US fighters (and those from other countries) are as motivated as ISIS is and they demonstrate to the locals that they are there of their own free will, to face off against a truly evil organization. May they be safe from harm.
I also like the Foreign Legion feel to all of this.
These US fighters (and those from other countries) are as motivated as ISIS is and they demonstrate to the locals that they are there of their own free will, to face off against a truly evil organization. May they be safe from harm.
I also like the Foreign Legion feel to all of this.
5
Mike Edwards: So you "like" the Foreign Legion feel.... War and death isn't some stylized notion. If you like it so much go volunteer.
3
It's ISIL that "likes" killing. Maybe when they chop off the head or immolate someone you know you'll realize it.
1
What important stuff did these soldiers do overseas? I honor their service to the country, but question the goals they were sent to pursue, and as they are finding out, the skills that do not transfer well to civilian status. I would add, that going to a 9 - 5 job everyday and raising a family, maybe not Seal Team six excitement, but it is also important stuff.
8
The inability of civilians to realize that former military people are valuable resources is sad. Men who trained, led, and motivated groups of hundreds in dangerous (or simply complicated) work are not thrown on the scrap heap with the words 'no previous experience' on their files. The inability of (often young and untrained) civilian 'human resource' bureaucrats to grasp the range of skills the military instills is pathetic.
11
In the absence of any world leaders with spine to take on the evil barbarians of ISIS, you get a hodgepodge of people with various motivations who are willing to contribute. I see it as akin to volunteering to fight the Nazis.
10
In a nutshell these individuals are mercenaries. Nothing wrong with that; until of course one is captured and then burned alive, beheaded or worse.
15
Except that they're volunteers. By definition, mercenaries are paid.
4
From the sounds of it, this guy isn't getting paid or anything. More a volunteer than a mercenary, though I might be playing semantics here. The real story here is the inability of these individuals to adjust to civilian life. Our government does a poor job of providing these men and women with proper resources to integrate back into society. Sad sad stuff. How many of the suicides of ex military personnel start with stuff like this, restless, can't really get back into the flow of things, crap jobs that lack good pay or match the level of ability these individuals have been trained for, etcetcetc. We're quick to send them off to fight useless wars, police the world, anything else, and all they get is a pat on the back and some patronizing nonsense about being heros. This country is on a bad course, in so many more ways than just this, but this is a perfect microcosm of the spiral...
1
During the middle ages, many restless knights became crusader under the banner of Christendom which commence the great conflict between Muslim and Christian until present day. These peripatetic and uneasy souls also render many disfranchised young Muslim traveling from West to become ISIS fighters.
5
ted: You raise great points: That part of the coin is something the U.S. seems to forget.
Mr. Maxwell told us his reason. He reads of the atrocities against innocent humans, children, women especially. I just don't understand it. We saw how standing by while the Nazis committed their horrors against innocents should never have been tolerated. Right here in our country people watched racism and bigotry destroy people. We watch the news narcotized by the horror, but also know there is little we can do while surviving our own lives. My ultimate opinion leader is President Obama, and I know he suffers knowing the torture is going on in this world and wishes there was some way to intervene completely. We wiped out the Nazis. We had to do it by killing innocent people there, but we won... And the atom bombs dropped.... ultimate killing of innocents but it stopped the war. What will it take for those of us standing by to stop the atrocities once and for all? I suffer everyday through living a happy life for those who have no choice but to be brutalized. I tell myself they would give anything to be as lucky as I... But, I can hardly bear their pain. I do what's put before me in helping., I proudly know I have made a difference. Mr. Maxwell wants to make a difference his way.
11
Or, he's bored and disenchanted and warrior is his default mode.
2
Interesting read on this difficult war-torn time in history.
I'm curious though as to why this article failed to provide more context in terms of the pesh merga and their role in the region. For the two instances the writer cites the terrorist label of the pesh merga, they say nothing of the CIA's cooperation with this Kurdish group in the late 90s and the significant role they played in toppling the Saddam Hussein regime and fostering some stability in the region.
Good investigative journalists do the work of providing the readers with context and helps us all from suffering war-time amnesia.
I'm curious though as to why this article failed to provide more context in terms of the pesh merga and their role in the region. For the two instances the writer cites the terrorist label of the pesh merga, they say nothing of the CIA's cooperation with this Kurdish group in the late 90s and the significant role they played in toppling the Saddam Hussein regime and fostering some stability in the region.
Good investigative journalists do the work of providing the readers with context and helps us all from suffering war-time amnesia.
4
"For the two instances the writer cites the terrorist label of the pesh merga..."
The article cited no such thing. The pesh merga was never labeled or accused of being a terrorist organization, the article spoke in general terms of the risks of returning fighters aligning themselves with the wrong organizations.
The article cited no such thing. The pesh merga was never labeled or accused of being a terrorist organization, the article spoke in general terms of the risks of returning fighters aligning themselves with the wrong organizations.
3
"The decision to fight ISIS carries risks. Beyond being killed, captured or kidnapped and held for ransom, Americans could also get caught fighting with a group that is viewed as a terrorist organization by the United States government."
You are correct, that it does not explicitly state the pesh merga as a terrorist group, but rather speaks to the YPG in this manner. But they YPG is working with pesh merga, and American citizens were/are working with pesh merga. I stand by my claim that more contextual information would help inform readers.
You are correct, that it does not explicitly state the pesh merga as a terrorist group, but rather speaks to the YPG in this manner. But they YPG is working with pesh merga, and American citizens were/are working with pesh merga. I stand by my claim that more contextual information would help inform readers.
Well, I respect these guys are willing to put their safety at risk for something they believe in. A lot of Americans want the U.S to do more to fight ISIS, but how many are willing to put their own safety on the line? Clearly peace marches will not stop ISIS from causing large amounts of death and destruction.
The problem is our involvement is like putting a band aid on a continuous wound. We will never be able to stop the never ending sectarian hatred.
The problem is our involvement is like putting a band aid on a continuous wound. We will never be able to stop the never ending sectarian hatred.
4
“Men grow tired of sleep, love, singing and dancing, sooner than war.”
It was true 3000 years ago when Homer wrote it. Think things have changed much?
It was true 3000 years ago when Homer wrote it. Think things have changed much?
72
mford: Thank you for that reminder; That quote needs to be plastered to the Chairs of every current member of Congress.
2
This may be a slippery slope, although I understand their willingness to stand against evil, but what next? After ISIS is defeated in Iraq and Syria what is the plan for these volunteers? Similar episodes have occurred in French history too, let us learn from history please.
I am absolutely in favour of eliminating ISIS ideology, but let us think through and use our brains and not just braun.
I am absolutely in favour of eliminating ISIS ideology, but let us think through and use our brains and not just braun.
21
Addicted to war. Charming.
52
The lack of empathy in this comment in the context of the blood that was spilled by the people who served is astounding.
Yes, the war was a mistake. But our soldiers and their comrades paid for it with their blood. ISIS is pure evil - let them smite ISIS from the face of the earth.
Yes, the war was a mistake. But our soldiers and their comrades paid for it with their blood. ISIS is pure evil - let them smite ISIS from the face of the earth.
10
Alex: You are stirring to many ingredients into your mix. One has nothing to do with the other. Our soldiers and comrades who paid with their lives has nothing to do with wannabe American mercenaries wanting another war to fight. There was no ISIS BEFORE our little decades-long "misstep". We destabilized the nation with our falsehoods. We realized what we were doing. Our benign dictator fell out of favor- This is the American Way of diplomacy and has never served us well. We never think beyond the "What Next" or do we actually care about the void and power-grab afterwards. We never have. So stop being indignant when people who can unravel the mess by calling things as they are, choose to do so in this forum.
4
Instead of praising these former veterans we should be asking an inconvenient question.
Why are so many veterans today unable to adapt to civilian life after serving their country in combat?
As a veteran, I feel much of this problem is the hero mentality that we feel we must bestow on all veterans, which I believe makes too many veterans feel not embraced by their communities, but set apart.
So it is any surprise when you are an isolated combat veteran on a pedestal the first call that you will likely take notice is not that of your civilian family or neighbor but those of dubious individuals like Matthew VanDyke with the siren song of a return to a life of more killing and more "heroics."
Why are so many veterans today unable to adapt to civilian life after serving their country in combat?
As a veteran, I feel much of this problem is the hero mentality that we feel we must bestow on all veterans, which I believe makes too many veterans feel not embraced by their communities, but set apart.
So it is any surprise when you are an isolated combat veteran on a pedestal the first call that you will likely take notice is not that of your civilian family or neighbor but those of dubious individuals like Matthew VanDyke with the siren song of a return to a life of more killing and more "heroics."
55
I was wondering about that when I read this. Traditional cultures had ways to "decommission" the warrior side of people who went to battle when they returned to life within their communities so they could function again as regular people. Kind of like shedding a skin. I wonder what kind of communities do this the best?
2
milknh: Veterans have never been able to truly adapt to civilian life; their skill set is based upon Combat and support of all combat apparatus. This is nothing new. You might not be old enough to realize that approximately 1 in 3 homeless men over age 57 served in the military during the Vietnam era conflict; and these Veterans have had a far worse go than today's warriors. Prior generations like my dad's (Korean Conflict and WWII) had the benefit of an America with an abundance of industry, trades and crafts and trade unions to provide them with new skills. Today's Veterans do not have such- there is little manufacturing in America and virtually no trade and crafts to learn. Yesterday's Vietnam era Veteran's came home to a nation that literally hated them, shunned them and provided nothing. Transitioning from war mode to civilian life has never been an easy task.
2
Attorney General Holder! Where are you? Why aren't you enforcing the Neutrality Act? Oh. He's one of YOUR guys. Never mind.
The cashiered cannon-fodder of the American Empire need...employment...and better to have them "over there" (cue music!) fighting the Scarey People D'Jour than loitering in your hospital lobbies, community colleges and myriad basements of parents.
The cashiered cannon-fodder of the American Empire need...employment...and better to have them "over there" (cue music!) fighting the Scarey People D'Jour than loitering in your hospital lobbies, community colleges and myriad basements of parents.
7
And this is different than people going to Syria to join ISIS as soldiers because...?
Humans love to kill other humans. This is who we are from day one of our history as a species. Except for a tiny percentage of time we have always been at war. So sad.
Humans love to kill other humans. This is who we are from day one of our history as a species. Except for a tiny percentage of time we have always been at war. So sad.
22
It's different because they're not aiding enemies of the United States... other than that the US government cannot prohibit citizens from traveling to go to Iraq, Syria etc. (see some of the other non-combat volunteers and journalists who were kidnapped by ISIS).
Because we are inherently more moral and civilised than ISIS. The fact that you even have to ask that question is indicative of the moral confusion of Progressives.
3
"It's different because they're not aiding enemies of the United States... "
If you actually read the article, you could not make that statement (see excerpts below):
"While the United States authorities have tracked and prosecuted citizens who try to join ISIS, it is unclear how they will respond to Americans’ fighting the group, especially since some Kurdish militias in Syria have ties to groups the State Department classifies as terrorist organizations."
"The decision to fight ISIS carries risks. Beyond being killed, captured or kidnapped and held for ransom, Americans could also get caught fighting with a group that is viewed as a terrorist organization by the United States government."
“These war zones are often foggy, and tough to tell friend from foe,” said Neil MacBride, a former United States attorney who has prosecuted similar cases. “U.S. citizens could risk running afoul of U.S. material support to terrorism laws if they took up with the wrong group.”
If you actually read the article, you could not make that statement (see excerpts below):
"While the United States authorities have tracked and prosecuted citizens who try to join ISIS, it is unclear how they will respond to Americans’ fighting the group, especially since some Kurdish militias in Syria have ties to groups the State Department classifies as terrorist organizations."
"The decision to fight ISIS carries risks. Beyond being killed, captured or kidnapped and held for ransom, Americans could also get caught fighting with a group that is viewed as a terrorist organization by the United States government."
“These war zones are often foggy, and tough to tell friend from foe,” said Neil MacBride, a former United States attorney who has prosecuted similar cases. “U.S. citizens could risk running afoul of U.S. material support to terrorism laws if they took up with the wrong group.”
Well never mind the politics and logistics, this is American heroism, pure and simple, its what people the world over admire.
It is pretty funny as he says that they love Texas George Bush over there, why, because the illegal war did have a benefit to them.
Obama was first elected on a policy to remove American troops from the region. However, now with ISIS running riot and committing as horrific crimes against humanity as Saddam then there is an argument to be made that Bush was right, we should have stayed etc.
However, it comes down to the same principle as mentioned at the end of the piece, that essentially American authorities don't approve of unauthorized fighters. At the end of the day I still believe the original unauthorized war should not have been fought - and this heroism should be stopped, military action needs to take place through authorized and legitimate channels only.
We don't need cowboy or vigilante justice, that is exactly what ISIS are.
It is pretty funny as he says that they love Texas George Bush over there, why, because the illegal war did have a benefit to them.
Obama was first elected on a policy to remove American troops from the region. However, now with ISIS running riot and committing as horrific crimes against humanity as Saddam then there is an argument to be made that Bush was right, we should have stayed etc.
However, it comes down to the same principle as mentioned at the end of the piece, that essentially American authorities don't approve of unauthorized fighters. At the end of the day I still believe the original unauthorized war should not have been fought - and this heroism should be stopped, military action needs to take place through authorized and legitimate channels only.
We don't need cowboy or vigilante justice, that is exactly what ISIS are.
2
The disaffected fighting the disaffected. Sad. Both are being used.
19
The is what happens when the US fails to support its troops who return home from war. There should be better programs--such as a US government-sponsored college education, for one--for people like Mr. Maxwell to return to after the war, where they can channel their energies into something that is both mentally challenging and productive.
19
It's sad that so many NYT commentators have such a degraded view of morality that they insult these people and impugn their motivations. They are fighting the greatest cancer our civilisation has seen since the nazis and you people, from the comfort of your couch, preen about with faux morality.
46
considering that a million people died in Rwanda in 1994 this is not the worst problem since the nazis. I agree that it is not good, but don't get carried away. Rwanda had no fiscal reward like the middle east oil so no one really cared untill it was too late, and let's not forget Bosnia.
8
Killing is actually immoral. There's nothing faux about that commandment. Coloring the enemy "the greatest cancer" doesn't change that. Pressuring the obscenely wealthy neighbors involved to stop isis with their mega oil money is a moral response. Why aren't we advocating for that?
1
If they want to sacrifice themselves why not let them without recriminations or judgement.
7
Because when they are inevitably captured and beheaded, the drumbeat of revenge here goes up exponentially.
2
If Patrick Maxwell had actually been in bloody and intense combat, he would not have wanted to return to Iraq. US soldiers are trained to the teeth, but a majority will never fire a shot or involve in actual combat during their military service, which explains the boredom in their civilian life and the eagerness to engage in real combat.
11
This is fascinating. I didn't see American Sniper, but I'll bet Maxwell did. I felt I understood something about him, about this kind of man. In some inchoate way, he wants a purpose in his life. He had it, briefly, but was frustrated. To come back to the US, and work as a bicycle taxi driver? Why should we expect him to be satisfied? Why should we not expect him to want to re-immerse himself into a fantasy of heroism and power? We create "warriors" and then we dump them. This is just one more outcome of the Bush/Cheney horror foisted on this country. If only Maxwell would keep reading! If only he'd read Tim O'Brien and Ben Fountain and Phil Klay! If only ...these writers really get it, meaning war and its terrible outcomes. He might try to think of some other path--although maybe it's too late.
115
And your point is what? That somehow O'Brien, Fountain and Klay had the "right" war experience which invalidates Maxwell's? I don't think anyone who has been in combat - real combat, where someone is shooting at you while you're trying to decide whether relieving your diarrhea issues or shooting back is your higher priority - has any fantasies about heroism and power. Maxwell and the others who have gone back for what I think is the most important question of the 21st century - what do we do with these veterans who have no meaningful civilian life and an essentially ignored by the vast majority of citizens who did not serve? If they came back to solid employment, as their grandfathers did after WWII, I'd bet that there would be fewer stories like this.
2
Dave, that's exactly my point: the lack of a viable civilian life for veterans. I suggested those authors only because Maxwell has a copy of Hemingway in his apartment. Perhaps he's looking for something, for some way to see and understand his own experiences. Honestly, I don't know. But certainly I wasn't trying to say that anyone else's experience is more valid than his.
2
Didn't we have that with Blackwater mercenaries beginning with Iraq? Real soldiers were led to believe that they were there because of 9/11, when there was no connection, seems like the Movie "Sniper" was a recruitment effort all along.
26
God bless these guys. Standing up to this evil satanic death cult where obama stands by and lets them obliterate civilisation.
6
Laughable that 'killing the bad guys' is going to do anything, except create more bad guys'. Not the answer. With our foolish, expensive invasion of Iraq, etc., we created the monsters. Shall we "God Bless" that fact?
17
And our money is on the other side, supporting ISIS.
Because ISIS is funded by the Saudi, who have ISIS clearing a naturalgas pipeline path through western Iraq and Syria so SA and Qatar can sell their natural gas to Europe and compete with the Russians natural gas supply monopoly there.
And the largest refinery in the US is Saudi Motiva in Texas.
So each time you fill up with gasoline, you likely are paying a portion of the purchase price to Saudi Motiva in Texas which funds ISIS.
Isn't this the most asinine set up ever?
But nobody thinks twice about any of it because the sainted Shrub family of Texas set it up.
Because ISIS is funded by the Saudi, who have ISIS clearing a naturalgas pipeline path through western Iraq and Syria so SA and Qatar can sell their natural gas to Europe and compete with the Russians natural gas supply monopoly there.
And the largest refinery in the US is Saudi Motiva in Texas.
So each time you fill up with gasoline, you likely are paying a portion of the purchase price to Saudi Motiva in Texas which funds ISIS.
Isn't this the most asinine set up ever?
But nobody thinks twice about any of it because the sainted Shrub family of Texas set it up.
49
I suppose if these people want to throw their lives away this way, it will be difficult for the US government to stop them. But they are creating far more problems for everyone than they could possible solve by fighting ISIS.
8
I am made to recall a friend telling me in the 80s who was on mental health disability from 1st Infantry Division Vietnam: "Over there I was a god, over here I'm nothing."
War is hell but fighting the good fight is a noble endeavor. As George Orwell said in Homage to Catalonia, "All I wanted to do was kill a Nazi."
War is hell but fighting the good fight is a noble endeavor. As George Orwell said in Homage to Catalonia, "All I wanted to do was kill a Nazi."
16
I'm really shocked by the comments that have been posted so far. Patrick Maxwell didn't write the headline. You stand in judgement against him because you think his intentions were all about blood lust and because "he has nothing better to do at home". How many of you are veterans? I thought all Americans were in agreement that ISIS/ISIL are a bunch of murderous, cruel, and destructive degenerates? I applaud Patrick Maxwell and am glad he's back home safe.
39
"I thought all Americans were in agreement"
uh oh.
uh oh.
3
Any way you cut it, this is sad and pathetic. Men just like to kill, that will never change. Especially men with nothing to lose.
18
We have veterans living like animals in the woods not to far from here. Can we ever live down our failure to reintegrate the men and women who young and full of idealism gave their minds and bodies for our country.
46
As veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, I completely understand Patrick Maxwell. I am well established in society and if it were not for my family, I would do the same in a second. In Iraq, I fought in Mosul and Tikrit. We brought stability to the place, we made allies and promises. Then, in 2011 the US just abandoned the whole place before we fulfilled our promises and left our allies and friends to be slaughtered by ISIS. It is a sense of loyalty to our allies and commitment to our promises that would cause me to go and fight ISIS.
24
Good that you were able to get proof positive, that Obama and Kerry are traitors to our Nation; "The State Department said in a statement that it “does not support” the activities of American citizens who travel to Iraq to fight ISIS."
Of course not, why would they? Maybe State would support an NGO in Iraq that helps train ISIS fighters to be productive members of society, as that, and not their deep religious zeal, is why ISIS is successfully fighting. But according to the teacher -in-chief, they can't be religious since they are not actually Muslim.
Of course not, why would they? Maybe State would support an NGO in Iraq that helps train ISIS fighters to be productive members of society, as that, and not their deep religious zeal, is why ISIS is successfully fighting. But according to the teacher -in-chief, they can't be religious since they are not actually Muslim.
2
Did you not read the article?
-----
"The decision to fight ISIS carries risks. Beyond being killed, captured or kidnapped and held for ransom, Americans could also get caught fighting with a group that is viewed as a terrorist organization by the United States government.
“'These war zones are often foggy, and tough to tell friend from foe,' said Neil MacBride, a former United States attorney who has prosecuted similar cases. 'U.S. citizens could risk running afoul of U.S. material support to terrorism laws if they took up with the wrong group.'”
-----
"The decision to fight ISIS carries risks. Beyond being killed, captured or kidnapped and held for ransom, Americans could also get caught fighting with a group that is viewed as a terrorist organization by the United States government.
“'These war zones are often foggy, and tough to tell friend from foe,' said Neil MacBride, a former United States attorney who has prosecuted similar cases. 'U.S. citizens could risk running afoul of U.S. material support to terrorism laws if they took up with the wrong group.'”
2
I admire these people who don't feel sorry for themselves. I hope they will stay alive and won't become hostages.
P.S.: CIA created beasts which went out of control. Our guys gonna atone for their sins in a foreign land.
P.S.: CIA created beasts which went out of control. Our guys gonna atone for their sins in a foreign land.
3
another reason to be disgusted with permanent war: permanent warriors.
i don't care how altruistic they are, this is wrong and it is one more step away from civilization and towards savagery.
i don't care how altruistic they are, this is wrong and it is one more step away from civilization and towards savagery.
31
A study of history reveals that civilizations are built and shaped by war -- often at the expense of the conquered. You might want to be careful about sawing off the branch on which you are sitting.
2
Why do I feel like the subtext here is that these former U.S. soldiers are inured to violence and killing and the rush that comes with it, and rather than continue the struggle to reacclimate to life in the "boring" civilian world back here, they instead prefer to feed an insatiable lust for "action" and, by extension, violence, brutality, and killing?
I don't admire these men for their urge to "help" others, but rather, feel concern that their motives are tainted with a mechanical desire to find a way to continue feeding the monster within that we (the U.S. military) created. We have programmed these men to kill and many of them can't just turn off the programming when their tours end.
I suspect many of them are suffering from trauma and mental illness and need treatment but the only "treatment" available to them is to go back into the killing machine.
It will take many, many years to reconcile what we have done to our nation and its people by embracing avoidable war and the violence and killing that comes with it. And those who chose to put our people in harms way will never have to account for their actions, just as those who escalated the Vietnam War, e.g., Henry Kissinger, have never been held accountable.
We are fooling ourselves if we think this stain and scar upon our people is simply going to fade away. The trauma continues and there is much more suffering to come as veterans such as these wayward men struggle to rejoin society and become productive citizens.
I don't admire these men for their urge to "help" others, but rather, feel concern that their motives are tainted with a mechanical desire to find a way to continue feeding the monster within that we (the U.S. military) created. We have programmed these men to kill and many of them can't just turn off the programming when their tours end.
I suspect many of them are suffering from trauma and mental illness and need treatment but the only "treatment" available to them is to go back into the killing machine.
It will take many, many years to reconcile what we have done to our nation and its people by embracing avoidable war and the violence and killing that comes with it. And those who chose to put our people in harms way will never have to account for their actions, just as those who escalated the Vietnam War, e.g., Henry Kissinger, have never been held accountable.
We are fooling ourselves if we think this stain and scar upon our people is simply going to fade away. The trauma continues and there is much more suffering to come as veterans such as these wayward men struggle to rejoin society and become productive citizens.
26
What is really sad is that people like you have such jumbled concept of history and current events. You actually blame Kissinger for escalating a war started two presidential administrations previous and escalated by Johnson and Macnamara.
It is also apparent that you have no contact with any servicemen or women. Almost all serve honorably, without mental trauma and return home to continue to serve their families and their country. Sadly we do not honor our commitment to their service benefits, the VA being a cruel joke, and college and training benefits being slashed as a part of our "Peace Dividend". Our Congress is more concerned with making sure the CEO of Lockheed-Martin gets his bonus than making sure our infantrymen have housing and food.
It is also apparent that you have no contact with any servicemen or women. Almost all serve honorably, without mental trauma and return home to continue to serve their families and their country. Sadly we do not honor our commitment to their service benefits, the VA being a cruel joke, and college and training benefits being slashed as a part of our "Peace Dividend". Our Congress is more concerned with making sure the CEO of Lockheed-Martin gets his bonus than making sure our infantrymen have housing and food.
4
Why is everyone so concerned about what this soldier is doing or not doing while living his civilian life. Why not start paying attention to the fact that someone like this soldier has the guts to stand up to the ruthless, barbaric enemy - ISIS - THEY ARE DOING ATROCITIES TO SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD while the world is watching. If someone has the guts to stand up to these animals, they should be applauded! Easy for the rest of us to sit there and comment out of our comfy seats, while some people are actually doing something. If he is the one joining the resistance, and other people doing the same, eventually there would be a force to be reckoned with - one person at a time. It all comes down to doing the right thing. The right thing to do is show resistance and force to the common enemy that tortures and kills so many innocent people barbarically without mercy - animals are more humane than ISIS terrorists - they need to be stopped!
9
Naive. Sorry, can't kill our way to getting rid of ISIS. Won't work; our policies helped create the animals.
5
Sorry Sage, but you're wrong. The only solution to the Daesh is to kill them. They can't be negotiated with, can't be converted, can't be made civilized, and can't be definitely confined to their worthless desert. The only thing to do with such homicidal maniacs is kill them. There are, right now, less than 150,000 of them so it should be quite readily accomplished, once a real military gets on the case. And the sooner it's done, the less people need to be killed.
3
For a country that preaches peace on earth and goodwill towards all, we are hypocrites. We are at perpetual war. Creating enemies to build a facade keeps the military complex rolling along. I'm sick and tired of constant war and articles like this would not exist if we can just stop warring. The bad guys wouldn't exist without our help in creating them in the first place.
9
One ex-Marine Maxwell or Army vet willing to fight ISIS is worth 10,000 American males who will NEVER 'Volunteer" to join a US Military Service - Army, Navy, Marines - when we really are forced to put boots on the ground to halt the spread of Militant Islam determined to destroy the US and western democracies.
And by the time we are forced to resume the Draft it will be too late.
And by the time we are forced to resume the Draft it will be too late.
4
Western Democracy was compromised the moment President Bush told us after 9/11 that "We are fighting for our civilization" and then proceeded to cut taxes, especially for the wealthy.
1
Everyone criticizing seems to forget the difficulty of adjusting from a war zone back into civilian life. He isn't some bored college dropout disenchanted with life served out in a cubical. Just maybe the war affected him in a way that makes it extra difficult to fit back in and he is struggling. Everyone copes in their own way.
56
I wonder how disenchanted trooper Maxwell will be when he realizes that ISIS exists in a symbiotic relationship with the aspirations of the Sunni Royals to contain Iran, and the War Party of The United States, which intends to capitalize upon Sunni Supremacy. When one examines the commensal relationship among ISIS, The Royals, and America's own Neocons, it should become immediately obvious that each in their own way are doing God's Work. Apparently Islam, Judaism and Christianity have met in the Middle East over the need to humbug Shia Iran.
Will it work? Oil now represents the smallest increment in the calculation of Iran's GDP in modern history, but GDP is currently growing a 4%. We may have actually done Iran a favor by imposing sanctions upon them, since a lack of economic diversification has been a curse to most oil producing countries. I mean look at Russia.
Back to Trooper Maxwell and his quixotic quest to defeat ISIS. I wonder what he will think when he realizes that Iran is in the vanguard to defeat ISIS, and that the Kurdish Peshmerga have become a surrogate of Israel, which never seems to have its interests attacked by ISIS. What will he think when he realizes that he has been lied to by so many players including his own government?
I had the miserable experience of awakening to the fact that the Vietnam War was a pack of lies while in a foxhole in I Corps RVN. Although I have to admit, that after the initial shock, I had become very effective at detecting lies.
Will it work? Oil now represents the smallest increment in the calculation of Iran's GDP in modern history, but GDP is currently growing a 4%. We may have actually done Iran a favor by imposing sanctions upon them, since a lack of economic diversification has been a curse to most oil producing countries. I mean look at Russia.
Back to Trooper Maxwell and his quixotic quest to defeat ISIS. I wonder what he will think when he realizes that Iran is in the vanguard to defeat ISIS, and that the Kurdish Peshmerga have become a surrogate of Israel, which never seems to have its interests attacked by ISIS. What will he think when he realizes that he has been lied to by so many players including his own government?
I had the miserable experience of awakening to the fact that the Vietnam War was a pack of lies while in a foxhole in I Corps RVN. Although I have to admit, that after the initial shock, I had become very effective at detecting lies.
28
Thank you for the factual and sane post. Refreshing!
3
Sage, I think my response to you was censored as was my comment on Friedman's column today. Journalism today is neither factual or sane. It is PC to the core, and it ought to be not just an embarrassment to all Americans, but it should be seen as a threat to all of us.
1
"“We offer them kind of a dream job, a chance to do what they are trained to do without all the red tape and PowerPoints.” Some people just like to fight and kill. It's a rush. Fine, as long as WE taxpayers don't have to pick up the tab if he's killed or wounded.
4
You have no idea what you are talking about. Warrior is a creed, a discipline and gives meaning to their lives and protects innocent people from unspeakable pain.
4
I believe the article mentions he was honorably discharged, so yes, we'll be picking up the tab in later years when he visits VA medical facilities.
2
This should not be permitted. I would respectfully say that this man needed serious counseling but now that he has gone his conduct presents us with a really problem. How are his actions different from any other American who tries to reun a personal foreign policy, except that he is willing to get shot at for his views unline the Senators, who wrote to Iran.
7
I wonder if the readers of the NYT would object if this was 1936 and he was going to Spain to fight Franco?
6
There's nothing heroic or noble going on here. These guys are bored with "normal" life and decide to go kill some "bad" guys. As had been noted, should they get captured, tortured, killed, etc. we should feel sorry for them and label them as Heroes.
8
Fred, I really think this is a worthy cause. ISIL is a horrible entity. If these men regardless of what their motive is. Obviously, it is not fighting for our country. But, maybe it is because they are fighting a very present evil. Their cause is a good one. Just because they will be fighting with the Shiite militia doesn't mean they are not Americans. Your right if they are tortured, captured and killed then they will be on their own. I have a feeling that they already realize this and it is their call. I support their actions.
3
I see the words 'pro-bono', and 'volunteer' a few times in the article, but strangely no use of the word 'mercenary' in any context at all.
Do you expect me to be so naïve as to believe the pesh merga, et al, aren't paying these guys for their unique services? (And paying them pretty well, I suspect.)
Do you expect me to be so naïve as to believe the pesh merga, et al, aren't paying these guys for their unique services? (And paying them pretty well, I suspect.)
9
Unpaid volunteer means just that. Unpaid. Absolutely not a cent was given or paid out. It wasn't about money, but doing the right thing. The trip cost several thousand dollars, paid out of pocket without the benefit of a kickstarter fund or handouts or compensation of any sort.
2
Why then do we have to pay our soldiers at all if they would rather be unpaid volunteers?
As a current active duty military officer I actually like this approach which is akin to a " smaller government role". Let the private sector and charities help solve this problem and not the government.
Isn't that what the Republican faction champions?
Isn't that what the Republican faction champions?
7
The Republican faction champions all war as long as they can stay safe and clean.
4
Another group looking for excitement in blood sport.
12
I find it rather disturbing that someone who was lucky enough to leave the military uninjured, would want to go back to a combat situation because they feel a need to kill enemies or they've become bored with civilian life.
11
I find it more disturbing that Americans reading about this ex-Marine don't care whether we win the prolonged war against ISIS or not. They are just sure nothing (including nuclear weapons) will ever be used agaist Americans inside the continental US. They view 9/11 as an abberation, not a harbinger of the future.
1
Far too many judgmental comments here for my tastes.
15
Criticizing these men makes as much sense as criticizing antibiotics for fighting infection. ISIS is the human equivalent of Ebola or plague, to be exterminated as promptly and completely as possible.
23
Your comment is a good example of how genocide is done - dehumanize the "enemy" by calling them names such as "swine" (Germany), or "cockroaches" (Rwanda) that must be exterminated.
1
Stephen, please, ISIS has dehumanised themselves. They do not belong to the family of civilisation and need to be exterminated.
2
"In the Spanish Civil War, Americans formed a contingent of more than 2,500 troops."
Those Americans, the Abraham Lincoln Battalion of the Fifth International Brigade, were condemned by our government for being anti-fascist "prematurely." History has judged them with more approval. It seems that some Americans who have gone to fight ISIS are just nihilists or thrill-seekers, but ones like Messrs. Maxwell and Hillier deserve our admiration.
Who will rescue them if they're taken hostage? Probably no one, and they know that, just as the Americans in Spain knew that the fascists took no prisoners.
Those Americans, the Abraham Lincoln Battalion of the Fifth International Brigade, were condemned by our government for being anti-fascist "prematurely." History has judged them with more approval. It seems that some Americans who have gone to fight ISIS are just nihilists or thrill-seekers, but ones like Messrs. Maxwell and Hillier deserve our admiration.
Who will rescue them if they're taken hostage? Probably no one, and they know that, just as the Americans in Spain knew that the fascists took no prisoners.
12
During WWII if you had fought in the Lincoln Brigade you got extra scrutiny when you volunteered for service. And after the war - because many volunteers had left-leaning sympathies - you were in even more trouble.
3
Exactly. A neighbor of ours fought with the 5th IB in Spain back in the Spanish Civil War. I salute him for his bravery in knowingly going to a fight like that where no prisoners are taken!
2
God bless these men. I'm a former military officer who, I must admit, thinks about doing this all the time. Why? Because every time I turn on the news, I'm physically sickened by what I see. I'm sickened by little children getting crucified. I'm sickened by children being brainwashed into beheading prisoners. The fact that I'm reluctant to go over there because I have a family to support, also sickens me. I'm not a religious nutcase, and I'm not a thrill seeker. I just see what is plainly obvious: what is going on in Iraq by Isis is plainly GENOCIDE, and we must use violence to stop it.
Before you criticize these men, think twice. Think about the humanitarian workers that you praise for having "hearts of gold". I agree they are necessary and have great intentions. But you and I both know the truth: all the humanitarian workers in the world won't make a scintilla of difference if Isis takes and consolidates power. They will kill, and brutalize anyone who gets in their way. Brave men (and women) with guns are the only ones who can stop them. I know that is uncomfortable for many of you to accept. Deal with it.
Before you criticize these men, think twice. Think about the humanitarian workers that you praise for having "hearts of gold". I agree they are necessary and have great intentions. But you and I both know the truth: all the humanitarian workers in the world won't make a scintilla of difference if Isis takes and consolidates power. They will kill, and brutalize anyone who gets in their way. Brave men (and women) with guns are the only ones who can stop them. I know that is uncomfortable for many of you to accept. Deal with it.
281
I have to agree. If anyone should go free-lance, at least these guys are trained and understand the risks. My problem is "war tourists" with little of either of the above; I do not include bona fide journalists in that category, either. They expose what is happening there so the rest of us can understand.
Retired Marine Officer
Retired Marine Officer
15
Brave, noble, and freedom loving. Thank God for you and others like you.
7
"and we must use violence to stop it."
T, Do yourself a favor and watch less TV "news" containing those images of war. Some would call the TV news conditioning and others would call it propaganda of a certain sort. I certainly wouldnt take it at face value.
T, Do yourself a favor and watch less TV "news" containing those images of war. Some would call the TV news conditioning and others would call it propaganda of a certain sort. I certainly wouldnt take it at face value.
1
We all -- truly all of us -- live with illusions of ourselves that we dont want to know the truth of, but these men want to have an enemy before them and then feel like they can destroy it. That wont end well for them.
17
"I figured if I could walk away from here and kill as many of the bad guys as I could, that would be a good thing" I have all the respect for the men and women who risk their lives for this country but you sir, clearly have been indoctrinated by the military industrial complex where you believe you can distinguish between friend and foe in this complicated and violent confrontation we are only peripherally involved with as a country.
99
Isn't it why ISIS is continuing these atrocities, because not only is America peripherally involved, but the rest world? Some people, including this soldier is obviously getting directly involved to stand up against the enemy.
2
Where's the ambiguity ? Making a distinction between good guys and bad guys seems pretty simple : the bad guys burn young, CAGED men; or as we saw this morning, have their 10-or-12-yr olds shoot men in the head.
Honstly, boze, how can you not identify the bad guys ?
Honstly, boze, how can you not identify the bad guys ?
12
Because there are "bad guys" on both sides. Some make films of themselves beheading captives. Some engineer the deaths of tens of thousands in unnecessary wars for their own profit, and brainwash soldiers into doing their killing for them. Which are which again?
1
why in god's name would we try to infringe on an American's ability to fight over there? If he is fighting with the Pesh Merga what dog does the United States have in that fight? What is wrong with it? If an American citizen wishes to fight with ISIS I would have the same opinion with the added opinion that after they fly out of this country (good riddance) either they are killed over there (a good thing) or they should be barred from returning to this country (a good thing) It is the very definition of "win-win". Why shouldn't free American's have the "freedom" to do that if that is what they desire?
12
If ever there was an example of the "slippery slope" fallacy, Jordan, your post is it.
3
Because we have our own foreign policy objectives in the region and allowing American civilians to chart their own course could be hugely damaging to that. What if an American civilian (innocently) ended up fighting for a group accused of human rights abuses? What if an American ex-soldier was captured by ISIS and ransomed or tortured? What if an American soldier in a pesh merga unit is used by Islamists as propaganda of Western control of Middle Eastern governments? The questions are endless.
The State Department and Pentagon have enough on their plates as it is in that region without (even well-intentioned) glory seekers running around.
The State Department and Pentagon have enough on their plates as it is in that region without (even well-intentioned) glory seekers running around.
9
@c-- I disagree my answer to your questions is "so"-- accused of human rights abuses- the individuals problem, not the US's-- ransomed or tortured-- absolutely no ransom and I'm assuming Mr. Maxwell was smart enough up front to know torture was a possibility--"so"-- used as propaganda--could middle eastern rhetoric get any worse than it is now? no, ...."so". No let them all go, and if they fight for ISIS let them stay over there and get an ISIS pension....ha ha
1
Patrick Maxwell wrote "“But I never saw the enemy, never fired a shot.” In World War I, my grandfather, a battle hardened American doughboy was seriously wounded by German fire as his unit charged through heavy machine gun fire to the German lines. It was during the Meuse-Argonne offensive and Jack Siegel was felled in that charge by German gas. He woke days later in an Army field hospital. Many years later in about 1962 I asked him about that battle. He too said that he "never saw the enemy". He did fire his rifle but he never knew if he killed the enemy. Grandfather was disillusioned by the outcome of the Great War, but he had no desire to return to battle. When the Germans began their new assaults in WWII grandfather remained home. He lived until age 75 and enjoyed his life with family and he throughly enjoyed his 4 young grandchildren.
All of us are grateful that grandfather "never saw the enemy". We're here today because he didn't. Jack Siegel is survived by his 4 grandchildren, 6 great grandchildren and 4 great-great grandchildren. Jack's daughter, the former Sylvia Siegel, now age 92 and a former Navy WAVE also survives. It's good not to "see the enemy."
All of us are grateful that grandfather "never saw the enemy". We're here today because he didn't. Jack Siegel is survived by his 4 grandchildren, 6 great grandchildren and 4 great-great grandchildren. Jack's daughter, the former Sylvia Siegel, now age 92 and a former Navy WAVE also survives. It's good not to "see the enemy."
39
“A lot of guys did important stuff overseas and came home and got stuck in menial jobs, which can be really hard,” Grandfather was employed as a United States Postal Clerk before and after the war until his retirement. He was courageous and humble. His civilian job did not diminish him. He wasn't bored.
Mr. Maxwell said that fighting was rare during his time on the Kurdish lines. “It was more like a World War I standoff,” he said. World War I was not a standoff. It was hard charging into vicious enemy fire, living in mud filled trenches, being wet, cold and hungry...and longing to go home. Mr. Maxwell doesn't realize how good it was not to see the enemy and to come home in one piece.
Mr. Maxwell said that fighting was rare during his time on the Kurdish lines. “It was more like a World War I standoff,” he said. World War I was not a standoff. It was hard charging into vicious enemy fire, living in mud filled trenches, being wet, cold and hungry...and longing to go home. Mr. Maxwell doesn't realize how good it was not to see the enemy and to come home in one piece.
9
Jay,
A beautiful piece of writing...
Thank you.
A beautiful piece of writing...
Thank you.
5
Well spoken, Well spoken indeed!
4
that's just what we need - an unemployed filmmaker organizing disenchanted veterans for a suicide mission in the most unstable region in the Middle East. Van Dyke is obviously exploiting these veterans.
64
'These guys' - like Mr. Maxwell were Soldiers and Marines sent by the US to Iraq not very long ago to 'fight' to bring 'peace' to Iraq. So those who don't think they have a motivation beyond simply 'being in the thick' or killing are wrong. These guys feel like there is unfinished business in which they are vested in. When they signed up and then deployed they did flip a switch inside themselves to operate as a war-fighter with a just- cause. I'm not advocating that the US re-enter this war full scale, but I feel for the guys who see the current state of Iraq and wonder what they fought for and why they flipped that switch. My brother is an Iraq Veteran who has since left the service honorably. He has struggled to un-flip that war switch and figure out what to do with his life after having been a part of something that seemed to mean something- fighting for the future of a country, a people, his friends and ideals. He knows he may not find that working for some corporate interests back here in the US. As much as I want to share the stories of these fighters who have gone back to Iraq with him, I won't, because he may actually be tempted...
9
I can not stand when people talk about Veterans this way. We're either victims who were/are exploited and incapable of making our own decisions, or we're suffering from PTSD and ready to snap at any moment. Occasionally, we have the pleasure of being portrayed as violent rapists too. There is no evidence these men are exploited. They've told you their reasons for going over there and, their reasons are lucid and clear. Why can't you accept that these men are witnessing injustice and genocide, and they may actually want to do something about it instead of just wringing their hands? Stop painting all veterans with the same brush. I for one am thankful for what they are doing, and I wish to God I was going with them.
143
And thus, the Hurt Locker.
20
I dearly hope that Americans will not be subjected to watching one or any of these brave soldiers burnt alive in a cage. I admire these men while at the same time I fear for their lives.
22
35 years ago this man could have been offering his services to Osama bin Laden and the mujahadeen who were fighting to Soviets in Afghanistan with CIA assistance. How would that have turned out?
Rebel groups all seem to turn into terrorists at some time in the future. That is because killing to get what you want never really ends and eventually the killers will turn on those who were supposedly aligned with their interests. Today's friend is tomorrow's enemy.
Rebel groups all seem to turn into terrorists at some time in the future. That is because killing to get what you want never really ends and eventually the killers will turn on those who were supposedly aligned with their interests. Today's friend is tomorrow's enemy.
68
If you were a Yazidi, Christian or other minority living in ISIS controlled territory you would think differently.
Seems to me if ever there was a case for the use of force this is it. Provided its applied against ISIS combatants only I say this is courage applied to a good cause; a just war. Good luck to these guys.
Seems to me if ever there was a case for the use of force this is it. Provided its applied against ISIS combatants only I say this is courage applied to a good cause; a just war. Good luck to these guys.
6
Who says that nobody loves war? There are those who thirst for it. On a related note, isn't it illegal to wear an American uniform once one has been discharged from the service?
41
Okay RKlose. Why don't you go tell these fellows its illegal to wear the American uniform when they are fighting to save little girls from slavery and rape; and little boys from impressment into military service? I'm sure they'll be very interested in your point of view.
13
War is a noble activity. Great warriors love war, while some are obviously too in-love with the fruits of this life. I am so sad that I was raised by Liberal Humanists that taught me otherwise, I have had to work for many years to unlearn the sop my mother taught me.
5
Can't they accomplish the same thing without the uniform? If I decide to join the fight against Mexican drug lords, would it be appropriate for me to pull my Navy uniform out of mothballs? Doesn't a uniform indicate that one is representing one's country?
1
All some guys want to do is kill people identified as the enemy. If that seems simplistic, I'm sorry, but that's what this story is about. For some men, the times they felt the most alive, and the most like men was when they were in active combat. They are the victims of a kind of permanent, sub-acute, post-traumatic stress disorder, one that whispers to them that the guy in the corner of the 7-11 could be a bad guy they need to watch. They are the adrenaline junkies who miss the old, daily fix of fear, and so, return for it when they find it again.
Later, we will be asked to feel sorry for these guys when the Islamic State captures them, tortures them, then makes them whimper for their lives while being filmed for propaganda purposes. Then we will asked to declare them heroes who deserve our undying gratitude after their deaths at the hands of the enemy they couldn't escape, themselves.
226
Sadly, yes you are right. The possibility that these men will be next ISIS hostages is quite real.
5
Yes I will feel very sorry for these Americans that went over to fight these dreadful anti Western monsters. While most Americans kill each other here in America for race, money, and assorted other insane reasons these guys are killing our enemy in the Levant. Maniacs vs. maniacs but at least these brave tough Americans are on our side. I salute their bravery.
2
Have you cried for the NGO fools, who thought they could change the world with love? But were taught otherwise by Islamic State?
3
Don't people do all sorts of things to find meaning in life (climb mountains, fall off cliffs, surf 50 foot waves)? What seems notable is the disenchantment from civilian life. Banality of existence is bothersome to the extent that these good people are going off to some God-forsaken land to fight an elusive enemy (today's friend is tomorrow's enemy, and back to being a friend again).
Somewhere in the story it hit a chord. My kids used to tap me on the shoulder while I was working and say: "I am bored."
I learned to tell them, "you are not bored, you are boring." I.e., find something interesting to do. Do something from which you will learn. And if all else fails, go help someone (as in volunteer). The message "no one owes you an interesting time, an interesting experience, or an interesting life" may have resonated.
These good people have found something interesting to do. Good for them.
Kalidan
Somewhere in the story it hit a chord. My kids used to tap me on the shoulder while I was working and say: "I am bored."
I learned to tell them, "you are not bored, you are boring." I.e., find something interesting to do. Do something from which you will learn. And if all else fails, go help someone (as in volunteer). The message "no one owes you an interesting time, an interesting experience, or an interesting life" may have resonated.
These good people have found something interesting to do. Good for them.
Kalidan
30
Wow, what a strange bit of advice to our bored youth, find a bunch of guys killing other guys and volunteer. There is plenty to do that doesn't include killing, it is time we got our priorities straight, as a people, as a country and as the human race.
15
re: Kalidan
Maybe I missed something in your analogy, but the last time I noticed surfers and mountain climbers do not kill people, unlike a soldier.
Maybe I missed something in your analogy, but the last time I noticed surfers and mountain climbers do not kill people, unlike a soldier.
4
When Kalidan said "volunteer" I believe he was thinking of organizations like Habitat for Humanity or a local soup kitchen
2
For those who haven’t read—or don’t remember reading—Hemingway’s For Whom the Bell Tolls, it’s about an American college instructor, Robert Jordan, who goes off to Spain to fight in the 1930s civil war there. I suddenly find myself thinking, what’s the difference between the Americans who joined the Lincoln Brigade to fight on the side of the Spanish Republic and mercenaries who hire themselves out to fight wars? Easy to say the difference is mostly a matter of fighting for a cause you believe in, but is it really? To what degree is it really a matter of wanting to be in the thick of things, with the claimed motivation, ideology or cash, as more of a rationalization? Are these guys who are fighting against ISIS any different, in the end, than those fighting for ISIS? And don’t tell me they're fighting the “bad guys.” That’s what everybody says—who ever said they joined up to fight against the “good guys”?
215
This is one of my favorite books. I simply love the ending. So cinematic.
I would say ISIS are on the level of Fascists of WWII. Although they will reach the levels the Nazi's or the Japanese attained in exterminating millions, this is part of their philosophy.
I would say ISIS are on the level of Fascists of WWII. Although they will reach the levels the Nazi's or the Japanese attained in exterminating millions, this is part of their philosophy.
6
Mercenaries are motivated by private monetary gain. A volunteer, on the other hand, is motivated by a belief system.
8
You ask some very valid questions that need to be answered..
How do you get the answers to those questions.
How do you get the answers to those questions.
2
This is hardly unprecedented - prior to direct US involvement in WWII, Americans were involved as "volunteers" in China, Spain and the "Eagle Squadrons" of the British RAF.
Certainly, if you really want to eliminate bad people, you will get the most "bang for your bang" when you shoot at the ISIS cut-throats.
Certainly, if you really want to eliminate bad people, you will get the most "bang for your bang" when you shoot at the ISIS cut-throats.
11
The same people casting dispersions on these people probably view the Abraham Lincoln Brigade veterans as heroes.
7
Let's not be "passively aggressive" towards these former military personnel to make a personal choice to go back to Iraq and assist in the fight against the militant terrorists.
As one reader writes: "Put down the guns, open up your heart and mind, you'd be a great Superman with heart, Clark Kent with muscle."
All well and good in your intentions but this is reality and not a fantasy world with Superheroes...
As one reader writes: "Put down the guns, open up your heart and mind, you'd be a great Superman with heart, Clark Kent with muscle."
All well and good in your intentions but this is reality and not a fantasy world with Superheroes...
15
Take away the religious fervor of the ISIS foreign fighters and compare them with guys like Maxwell, and there probably isn't a whole lot of difference... young, bored, disenfranchised, excited about violence and blended with a sense of righting a perceived injustice.
283
Take away the religious fervour? That's what its all about surely?
2
This kind of relativism is dangerous - ISIS is waging an genocidal war, erasing cultural heritage, murdering or enslaving those in their path. To say what ISIS fighters would be without the religious fervor makes no sense - the is the very core of who they are.
Mr. Maxwell is fighting on behalf of people who are defending their homeland against ISIS, which is the closest thing to evil that I have witnessed in my time on earth. He is fighting for the right of Kurds to live in peace in their homeland, free from the fear of rape and murder. He is not taking part in a conquest to subjugate others. Those facts matter.
Mr. Maxwell is fighting on behalf of people who are defending their homeland against ISIS, which is the closest thing to evil that I have witnessed in my time on earth. He is fighting for the right of Kurds to live in peace in their homeland, free from the fear of rape and murder. He is not taking part in a conquest to subjugate others. Those facts matter.
22
Add to ISIS foreign fighters a negligence for basic human rights, a complete indifference to sex trafficking and the possible harvesting of human organs for operational funding and the direct targeting of minority religious groups for extermination and then make that comparison. Seems like a tough one and I doubt Maxwell would support or show indifference to the above.
9
Pretty simple solution, the US military could direct volunteers to the forces the US holds alliances with, while supplying all their needs and also pay them as mercenaries.
3
Nope the volunteers in this article aren't motivated by personal monetary gain. Their motivations are either beliefs or heroisms, maybe a combination of both. Arms manufactures, on the other hand, are only motivated by money and more of it.
6
Oh, that's a great idea: have our country hire mercenaries who are hungry for blood and perhaps ill-trained -- or not trained at all. Just a great idea.
4
If what I've read about ISIS fighters is correct , they are being paid, pretty well, considering the culture they are fighting to support. ISIS has plenty of $$$$$!
1
If these vets are bored with civilian life why not go back active duty or join the reserve's and be a marine on the weekend.
10
They don't join the Reserves or active duty....because the US is no longer involved- remember? The military is barely training.... budget cuts, etc.
Budget cuts... that's why the spending on the military approaches $600 billion per year!
1
And who is going to rescue this people if they are taken hostage?
39
Nobody, and I'm betting they understand that.
41
America refuses to negotiate or pay ransom for any American citizen who is taken as hostage in any armed conflict. So far, what I have seen is rescue operations are sometimes attempted but that is an exception. Of the ones where negotiations and trade agreements are arranged it is so that when the former hostage is released back to America it is was all undertaken in order to prosecute that hostage in American military or civilian courts.
3
When. When they are taken hostage. Every person with a gun will be looking for them. And no doubt some of their "brothers" will be called upon to rescue them. And if any of them are killed, more "brothers" will sign up to avenge them. And as a result of this vengeance, whole families will become immersed in the desire for more vengeance. Killing is the oldest profession.
Finding a purpose in life is something most people, certainly myself, struggle to define. However, killing in war can be dangerously subversive in its conditioning. Joining a rogue branch of soldiers who believe they're are fighting for the good, can slip into fighting for some fairly deranged people. Read your history. Once an enemy is eradicated, a new enemy must be found as it's intrinsic to psychological survival or oneself and a group one has bonded with. It operates much the way ISIS does. Militreay leaders are not perfect, but they have people they must answer to, kids, family, a job to consider that could be lost if they make the wrong decisions. Rogue military platoons have no parameters. Scary, My advice, find a way to teach the average person about the fragility to human life and a positive and very useful seminar for CEOs or corporate employees on working together as a team. While Mr. Maxwell seems like a decent human being with good intentions, has he considered perhaps that he is most needed here in the USA? Put down the guns, open up your heart and mind, you'd be a great Superman with heart, Clark Kent with muscle.
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Kurdish forces are rogue? I don't think so. Thank God they are resisting ISIS. Kurds have been fighting for their own survival and their territory for years. They were gassed by Saddam Hussein.
I respect his man's decision. Most won't do it, and I respect that as well. But please do not smear the Kurds as being rogue. They are trying to survive.
I respect his man's decision. Most won't do it, and I respect that as well. But please do not smear the Kurds as being rogue. They are trying to survive.
4
"Mr. Maxwell seems like a decent human being with good intentions"
A far better human being than those who take on a condescending attitude in the comments on this article.
"Once the enemy is eradicated, a new enemy must be found"
So. Would your advice to Abraham Lincoln have been to not bother. There is no use for war. Give peace a chance because I am safe and happy in New York and see no reason for war.
I suggest you go to the Assyrians in the Middle East and tell them face to face that their lives and their children s lives are of no value.
A far better human being than those who take on a condescending attitude in the comments on this article.
"Once the enemy is eradicated, a new enemy must be found"
So. Would your advice to Abraham Lincoln have been to not bother. There is no use for war. Give peace a chance because I am safe and happy in New York and see no reason for war.
I suggest you go to the Assyrians in the Middle East and tell them face to face that their lives and their children s lives are of no value.
2
MCS has much more courage than I. ............
I would never assume the needs of or, even less, give unsolicited advice to a man like Patrick Maxwell. ...................... Even less would I question Mr. Maxwell's choices to remain a warrior where he is needed and feels fulfilled rather than holding seminars (though that might be in Mr. Maxwell's future)............................
Most astounding, to accuse a man of having a closed heart and mind who is laying his life on the line on behalf of innocents .......I'm stunned.
I would never assume the needs of or, even less, give unsolicited advice to a man like Patrick Maxwell. ...................... Even less would I question Mr. Maxwell's choices to remain a warrior where he is needed and feels fulfilled rather than holding seminars (though that might be in Mr. Maxwell's future)............................
Most astounding, to accuse a man of having a closed heart and mind who is laying his life on the line on behalf of innocents .......I'm stunned.
2
"Disenchanted by Civilian Life" or should that be read as bored of a functional and uneventful life. Patrick Maxwell's actions are akin to thrill and adventure seekers and there is no noble cause behind his going to join Kurdish forces. This is madness and as Mario Puzo rightly said "Fools Die"!
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Thank you for your service to the civilized world. May many others join you to defeat this scourge.Where can we send money to help ?
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Once upon a time, not long ago, the US could revoke the US citizenship of anyone fighting in a foreign army (never enforced against the IDF, ask Rahm Emmanuel). How are these mercenaries now being facilitated by US agencies? 'Boredom' smells like HRC's 'convenience' excuse, phoney.
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And will they seek services from our already strained VA if they sustain physical and emotional injury?
4
"Once upon a time, not long ago, the US could revoke the US citizenship of anyone fighting in a foreign army (never enforced against the IDF, ask Rahm Emmanuel). "
If that was ever true (Lafayette Escadrille, Flying Tigers, Hemingway in Spain) it isn't a blanket anymore:
"Military service in foreign countries, however, usually does not cause loss of nationality since an intention to relinquish nationality normally is lacking. In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish nationality. On the other hand, voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. "
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-c...
If that was ever true (Lafayette Escadrille, Flying Tigers, Hemingway in Spain) it isn't a blanket anymore:
"Military service in foreign countries, however, usually does not cause loss of nationality since an intention to relinquish nationality normally is lacking. In adjudicating loss of nationality cases, the Department has established an administrative presumption that a person serving in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities against the United States does not have the intention to relinquish nationality. On the other hand, voluntary service in the armed forces of a state engaged in hostilities against the United States could be viewed as indicative of an intention to relinquish U.S. nationality. "
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/english/legal-considerations/us-c...
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I wouldn't worry about the 100 or so receiving care.... Worry about the 100,000's already receiving sub-par care, from the VA, for their service to this country?
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It would set a new low in political/judicial hypocrisy were the United States to prosecute the warriors they previously sent into the battle area to ostensively resist ISIS for going into the battle area to actively resist ISIS.