The Zimmerman case opened 'Pandora's Box'. From then on it was fair game to 'stand-your-ground'. It appears to me they had it backward. It was Zimmerman who instigated the pursuit and the victim had the right to defend himself.
2
The truth comes out: Officer Wilson did nothing wrong. He acted exactly as he should after a thug attacked him and tried to disarm and kill him. The thug never put his hands up and never said "don't shoot". Officer Wilson nearly died protecting the black community from a predator
20
After the shooting of the black homeless man last week by 3 cops, the LAPD chief said "that's what happens when you try to grab an officer's gun."
Wilson's case was far more justified, since Brown made the gun go off, TWICE. Were it not for some metal in the SUV's door deflecting 1 of the 2 shots, Brown would've gut-shot himself, in fact.
Wilson's case was far more justified, since Brown made the gun go off, TWICE. Were it not for some metal in the SUV's door deflecting 1 of the 2 shots, Brown would've gut-shot himself, in fact.
13
So, what do we have here in the comment section? An awful lot of right wingers crying about how everyone on the left was too quick to judge. AS IF they weren't just as guilty. Precious few are those who waited for all the facts DOJ could find and analyze before taking a position on this case. Now that DOJ finds there is not sufficient evidence to charge Wilson, suddenly all of his supporters are pure as driven snow. The top commentator in the reader's picks claims Brown was criminal thug. Hey Jim, prove it! Show us his criminal record...show us his record of convictions. How many right wingers are pointing out this lie?
What the DOJ found is not enough evidence to charge Wilson. That is not the same as proof that Wilson did nothing wrong. I will also note that many on the right are proclaiming that only the facts should matter...but, of course they mean only the facts that support their position matter. The report on the bias and contravention of constitutional rights by the Ferguson Police Dept. against minority members....well, those inconvenient facts don't count.
The primary source of the claims that Brown had his hands up to
surrender...came from a pair of white construction workers. Why they fabricated their stories, the DOJ was unable to determine. Brown was certainly not blameless. He was spoiling for a fight and didn't back down when Wilson confronted him. There is plenty of blame to throw around for what happened after the confrontation between Wilson and Brown.
What the DOJ found is not enough evidence to charge Wilson. That is not the same as proof that Wilson did nothing wrong. I will also note that many on the right are proclaiming that only the facts should matter...but, of course they mean only the facts that support their position matter. The report on the bias and contravention of constitutional rights by the Ferguson Police Dept. against minority members....well, those inconvenient facts don't count.
The primary source of the claims that Brown had his hands up to
surrender...came from a pair of white construction workers. Why they fabricated their stories, the DOJ was unable to determine. Brown was certainly not blameless. He was spoiling for a fight and didn't back down when Wilson confronted him. There is plenty of blame to throw around for what happened after the confrontation between Wilson and Brown.
5
In other words, "hands up, don't shoot" never happened. Even the NYT, and Eric Holder, admit that now.
19
It is amazing to me the amount of denial there is in this country over this situation. it is becoming abundantly clear that the town of Ferguson, and probably the whole state of Missouri, is run like some perverted plantation, where those who think they have it victimize those less fortunate, whether through ripping them off financially or just plain disrespect. The court clerk is fixing tickets for her white buddies and then sending racist emails. Yes it's a hoot that black folks are not in on our little game. And the judge is fixing tickets for his white buddies, has hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax liens, and is throwing people in jail because they can't pay their fine. Then they lose their job and can't pay their fine. Nobody explains what you're being charged with, what the fine is,or when you should be in court. This obviously is all Eric Holders fault that these creeps have run their little fiefdom this way into 2015 and just got caught. And as for this continuing trashing of Mike Brown, there is a completely different group of crooks in this town and they are operating out of city hall. News flash folks, most people don't get killed for shoplifting, most states allow periodic payments on fines, and hopefully in the future most kids don't get shot down in the street because some creep with a gun decides he'd like to shoot somebody today. Congratulations to the Justce Dept and I hope they follow up with more good work.
13
This is pretty much the same thing the grand jury found. In other words the shooting was justified because Brown without provocation attacked a cop after being stopped for strong-armed robbery, tried to kill the cop with his own gun then charged the cop after the cop shot him in the leg to stop his escape. There never was any 'hands up' gesture or "don't shoot" request, that was just cheap theater made up after the fact and the shooting had nothing to do with race, so all the protests were based on fairy tale lies. The report concludes that the police are at fault nevertheless because hey have bad relations with the community.
Okay everybody?
Okay everybody?
17
This increasing reeks of being a media in cahoots with the left wing conspiracy and cover up. Now that the democratic party has milked this faux crime for all the minority votes it can buy with strategic lies and riot inducing rhetoric, perhaps the media will also allow the truth to leak out ... about what drug the crazed criminal was out of his mind on. There have been some crumbs of one sentence here and there (in the none NY Times media) about that the "strong arm" cigar thief had been smoking a "wet" reefer. "Wet" refers to the PCP laced weed hand rolled cigarettes often smoked by coward bullies to help them build up their courage to fight, attack and commit crimes This would perfectly explain the officer's impression of his attacker "looking right though him - acting like the green hulk". So what's up with that! Or will those facts be considered to "insensitive", "racist" and "blaming the victimish" to include in our "discussion about race in America".
21
Yesterday the DOJ released the results of a long and thorough investigation into the killing of Michael Brown by Officer Darren Wilson. The investigation concluded that there was not enough evidence to prove a violation of federal law by Officer Wilson. The investigation concluded that physical evidence and witness statements corroborated Wilson's claim that Michael Brown reached into the car and struck the officer. It concluded that claims that Wilson reached out and grabbed Brown first "were inconsistent with physical and forensic evidence."
The investigation concluded that there was no evidence to contradict Wilson's claim that Brown reached for his gun. The investigation concluded that Wilson did not shoot Brown in the back. That he did not shoot Brown as he was running away. That Brown did stop and turn toward Wilson. That in those next moments "several witnesses stated that Brown appeared to pose a physical threat to Wilson." That claims that Brown had his hands up "in an unambiguous sign of surrender" are not supported by the "physical and forensic evidence," and are sometimes, "materially inconsistent with that witness’s own prior statements with no explanation, credible for otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time."
Unlike the local investigators, the Justice Department did not merely toss all evidence before a grand jury and say, "you figure it out." The federal investigators did the work themselves and cleared Officer Wilson.
The investigation concluded that there was no evidence to contradict Wilson's claim that Brown reached for his gun. The investigation concluded that Wilson did not shoot Brown in the back. That he did not shoot Brown as he was running away. That Brown did stop and turn toward Wilson. That in those next moments "several witnesses stated that Brown appeared to pose a physical threat to Wilson." That claims that Brown had his hands up "in an unambiguous sign of surrender" are not supported by the "physical and forensic evidence," and are sometimes, "materially inconsistent with that witness’s own prior statements with no explanation, credible for otherwise, as to why those accounts changed over time."
Unlike the local investigators, the Justice Department did not merely toss all evidence before a grand jury and say, "you figure it out." The federal investigators did the work themselves and cleared Officer Wilson.
8
Grand Juries do not determine guilt or innocence. ALL they do is establish whether there is probable cause to believe that a crime was committed...and then issue an indictment for the person believed to have committed the crime.
Once indicted, the suspect then goes to trial where a far more stringent standard is applied: proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Grand Jury in the Michael Brown case spent three months pouring over every bit of the evidence, including witness testimony and forensics. They decided that the officer, Darren Wilson, had committed no crime.
You can be 100% certain that if there was the slightest possibility that Michael Brown had his hands up when shot, they would not have ruled that way. The "hands up" myth was created by Brown's best friend and accomplice in the robbery, Dorian Johnson. Johnson first tried to claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. When that lie was quickly exposed, he came up with his "hands up" lie.
But several African-American witnesses testified that Brown did NOT have his hands up and was charging the officer "like a linebacker" when shot. Forensic evidence also proves that Brown could not have had his hands raised when shot.
DESPITE the foregoing, black racists and muddy-headed liberals persist in using "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" on signs, shirts, songs, and chanting it at demonstrations. They're only proving their ignorance.
Once indicted, the suspect then goes to trial where a far more stringent standard is applied: proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Grand Jury in the Michael Brown case spent three months pouring over every bit of the evidence, including witness testimony and forensics. They decided that the officer, Darren Wilson, had committed no crime.
You can be 100% certain that if there was the slightest possibility that Michael Brown had his hands up when shot, they would not have ruled that way. The "hands up" myth was created by Brown's best friend and accomplice in the robbery, Dorian Johnson. Johnson first tried to claim that Brown was shot in the back while running away. When that lie was quickly exposed, he came up with his "hands up" lie.
But several African-American witnesses testified that Brown did NOT have his hands up and was charging the officer "like a linebacker" when shot. Forensic evidence also proves that Brown could not have had his hands raised when shot.
DESPITE the foregoing, black racists and muddy-headed liberals persist in using "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" on signs, shirts, songs, and chanting it at demonstrations. They're only proving their ignorance.
15
When a person resorts to calling critics "black racists" and "muddy-headed liberals" such a person has already lost the argument.
Moreover, a person loses an argument based upon a flimsy premise - in the case of the above poster making the claim that grand juries are simply tools to determine "probable cause" when there is ample evidence that is not the case.
One only needs to review the transcripts of the Ferguson grand jury and you would see plenty of examples in which the shooting victim was portrayed multiple times in racist terminology by the prosecutor.
Likewise, if you look at grand juries elsewhere involving police shootings you will find a pattern in which prosecutors will do their utmost to protect police and use selective "evidence" to place suspects or victims in a negative light.
All of this is the reality of gradd juries today, a very flawed system that calls into question the concept of equal justice for all.
Moreover, a person loses an argument based upon a flimsy premise - in the case of the above poster making the claim that grand juries are simply tools to determine "probable cause" when there is ample evidence that is not the case.
One only needs to review the transcripts of the Ferguson grand jury and you would see plenty of examples in which the shooting victim was portrayed multiple times in racist terminology by the prosecutor.
Likewise, if you look at grand juries elsewhere involving police shootings you will find a pattern in which prosecutors will do their utmost to protect police and use selective "evidence" to place suspects or victims in a negative light.
All of this is the reality of gradd juries today, a very flawed system that calls into question the concept of equal justice for all.
5
DOJ is pandering to this mess and become part of the lie. Nice job Holder.
6
Army military combatants are trained to react and turn and fire and kill in a microsecond. If you don’t, you’re a dead duck. Cops however are not military soldiers and are not at liberty to turn and shoot. Instead they have protocols to follow. Police first warns, “stop, police, hands up, get face down on the ground, etc.” The person stopped by the police must adhere to these commands. If they don’t, then police have many other ways to apprehend and handcuff the bad guys. First, the smartest thing that should happen is for 2 (two) cops to get out of the police car.....not one (1). If the municipality is trying to save a buck on police department payroll, and only one cop is present, he must call for backup in a dangerous altercation. When an individual refuses to cooperate, then the police can pepper spray their eyes or can use their electric stun gun. The individual can then be apprehended and cuffed. This scenario is for an unarmed individual on drugs, alcohol, or with a serious mental disorder, or simply combatant and non-compliant. Police should only fire with intent to kill an individual only if the individual is armed, dangerous, will not comply, and begins shooting at the officers.
Do you believe that there is no more racism in America in 2014 because a Black man will be sitting in the oval office for 8 yrs and all Americans (whites) and all races and colors love and respect each other?
Do you believe that there is no more racism in America in 2014 because a Black man will be sitting in the oval office for 8 yrs and all Americans (whites) and all races and colors love and respect each other?
4
Well, we will never ever know the truth because the prosecutor fixed it that way. These are the dirty tricks we know he used: his team gave the jury an old law that was unconstitutional; out of all the testimony he gave the press, he neglected to include a subsequent interview with Brown's friend because his story was too consistent. Yeah, his hands weren't over his head - one of them was shot! One witness said he lifted up his hands, but it looked like he was "favoring" one hand. And that the cop was afraid for his life - now that's a lie! Supposedly he was repeatedly hit by this scary monster but his "injuries" looked like razor burn. Even Nancy Grace said "It doesn't add up." I don't think this is the last we'll hear about ex-officer Wilson. He will continue to show his violent character.
2
'To me, he had his hands up'
Really?
As Senator Moynihan once said, ' You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.' It is so easy to reduce and generalize these complex tragedies to a catchword or phrase. 'Hands up' or "I can't breathe' become totems for a belief system rather than an honest summation of the facts.
A remarkable result considering it manages to be unfair to both the deceased AND to the police.
Really?
As Senator Moynihan once said, ' You are entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.' It is so easy to reduce and generalize these complex tragedies to a catchword or phrase. 'Hands up' or "I can't breathe' become totems for a belief system rather than an honest summation of the facts.
A remarkable result considering it manages to be unfair to both the deceased AND to the police.
8
“The lie got repeated over and over again,” says the annoyed right wing, which had thought it held a patent on that propaganda technique.
3
I think it was James Baldwin who said: "For black people it is always about race, for white people it is never about race. How you fix that I have no idea."
5
I am not the least bit surprised to see that there was no "hands up, don't shoot" like many wished there was. It's ridiculous that people, including elected politicians, pushed this agenda and were not called on it. Looting and rioting was the results of this. What happens when a legitimate case comes up? Who will believe these hucksters?
I live in NYC and 95% of violent crime is committed by blacks and Hispanics. Who exactly should the police focus on? Asian kids leaving Stuyvesant HS? Elderly Jews leaving a synagogue in Williamsburg? Irish kids going to St Patricks Day parade? Italians playing bocce in Corona?
Who is committing the crimes in Ferguson? Are the police focusing on the groups responsible for most of the crime there? This is the question that should be asked first before conclusions are reached?
I live in NYC and 95% of violent crime is committed by blacks and Hispanics. Who exactly should the police focus on? Asian kids leaving Stuyvesant HS? Elderly Jews leaving a synagogue in Williamsburg? Irish kids going to St Patricks Day parade? Italians playing bocce in Corona?
Who is committing the crimes in Ferguson? Are the police focusing on the groups responsible for most of the crime there? This is the question that should be asked first before conclusions are reached?
13
Mr. Roorda complained “Fifty years from now, he’ll still be the white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen.” Yes he will, for that fact is indisputable. Whether or not Brown had his hands up, he was unarmed, and there is no justification for shooting him six times. Even if we are as generous as possible to Wilson's account, he still used remarkably poor judgement that led to an unnecessarily cruel response based on paranoia. And he should be remembered for that and condemned for it for the rest of his life.
4
You are so right! Wilson had a police car and a radio besides his gun and backup from the whole police force. He decided to shoot Brown to death. It's just when you read Mike Brown's friend's testimony, it is so much more believable than Wilson's and quite consistent over months. Of course, Wilson wasn't grilled, I'm sure. Wilson's testimony was very over-the-top; Johnson's was detailed. Cop yells, get the f... out of the street. Drives off, stops (when he got the radio call), backs up fast, opens his door and hits Brown, and it bounces back and shuts hard. Cop gets very angry. What happened after that, no one knows. It seems unlikely that a large guy like Brown could've reached for a gun if it were still in the cop's holster. I think Wilson was going to shoot Brown to death right in the car, but Brown put his hand up. Maybe it was only one hand up to block the bullet. We will never know what happened. Yes, Brown was a bully and Wilson is a murderer.
4
after Wilson's eye socket got damaged, and 2 shots went off while wrestling with the fleeing strong-arm robber within his cop car, and then the fleeing suspect came back for more, maybe Wilson was not thinking too clearly about the 6 ft. 4 in. raging bull who was charging at him.
7
It is outrageous how the DOJ report is being distorted to fit a biased agenda. 1. The report does not "clear" officer Wilson. This is an unjustifiable blunder in an otherwise mostly accurate NYT article. The DOJ cannot "clear" anybody, it doesn't have the legal authority nor the investigative means to determine whether or not Wilson is innocent. As long as there is no court trial, Wilson is not "cleared" of anything.
2. The report doesn't conclude that Brown's hands weren't up. It only states that there is conflicting evidence "casting doubt" on whether or not his hands were in fact up. Again the DOJ was in no position to ascertain the truth of the matter. Only a clean court trial could have had a chance to clarify what really happened. The justice system (in the form of a biased prosecutor) has rejected a trial. Wilson will forever be tainted as a police officer who killed an unarmed black teenager, because it's the truth.
2. The report doesn't conclude that Brown's hands weren't up. It only states that there is conflicting evidence "casting doubt" on whether or not his hands were in fact up. Again the DOJ was in no position to ascertain the truth of the matter. Only a clean court trial could have had a chance to clarify what really happened. The justice system (in the form of a biased prosecutor) has rejected a trial. Wilson will forever be tainted as a police officer who killed an unarmed black teenager, because it's the truth.
6
Exactly!! When the prosecutor failed to do his job, we were assured that the truth will never be known. The DOJ should've focused on the job he did.
2
White people (and perhaps others) are finally questioning the implied duty, realizing the sheer insanity, of trying to maintain civil order in an increasingly ungovernable society. Ferguson is but one example of the impossible mission. This issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the shopworn tired label of racism. The world of integration in the US and elsewhere, has been tried for many, many years, all to no avail. This outcome is not unexpected or surprising. It's just the way the world works and always will work. For many of life's realities, there is no pretend solution otherwise. Separate but equal living arrangements for the different ethnic/racial groups is self evident to thinking adults. Most thinking people privately acknowledge this as self evident..
3
What the heck is this? "The world of integration"?? This has nothing to do with Ferguson- this has to do with your own ideas about race, which are just simple racism.
5
Those who dismiss the findings of both the grand jury and Department of Justice as irrelevant to the underlying issue of police behavior overlook the tragic aftermath of Mr. Wilson's death.
The now disproven allegation that Mr. Wilson had his hands up in a surrender posture before he was shot was the single most inflamatory statement that greatly contributed to the destruction of innocent people's livelihoods and millions of dollars of property damage. It was the rallying cry that incited terrifying riots. It was used by prominent leaders to rile up emotions and create a mob mentality. It was accepted as absolute truth without any attempt whatsoever to verify it.
It is not OK to simply dismiss the falsehood of that allegation as if it were a symbolic rallying cry. Whatever good may come from the national scrutiny of community-police relations resulting from the tragedy in Ferguson will have to go a long long way before it will outweigh the economic ruination experienced by so many innocent citizens of Ferguson.
Sadly, those people who suffered immeasurable loss now seem to be relegated to historical obscurity.
The now disproven allegation that Mr. Wilson had his hands up in a surrender posture before he was shot was the single most inflamatory statement that greatly contributed to the destruction of innocent people's livelihoods and millions of dollars of property damage. It was the rallying cry that incited terrifying riots. It was used by prominent leaders to rile up emotions and create a mob mentality. It was accepted as absolute truth without any attempt whatsoever to verify it.
It is not OK to simply dismiss the falsehood of that allegation as if it were a symbolic rallying cry. Whatever good may come from the national scrutiny of community-police relations resulting from the tragedy in Ferguson will have to go a long long way before it will outweigh the economic ruination experienced by so many innocent citizens of Ferguson.
Sadly, those people who suffered immeasurable loss now seem to be relegated to historical obscurity.
11
Compare and contrast the Justice Department under Bobby Kennedy and that of Eric Holder.
In the early 1960s we had Bobby Kennedy who was a person with a firm moral compass, a real backbone and unparalleled courage to challenge the political status quo of southern racists who treated African Americans as second class citizens.
However, in 2015, we are stick with Eric Holder, whose concept of a "backbone" or a "moral compass" is a totally alien concept not only to him but also his boss, both of whom find it more politically expedient to toss African Americans under the bus in order to placate the ignorant, the bigots and racists that are so prevalent in much of Red State America.
In the early 1960s we had Bobby Kennedy who was a person with a firm moral compass, a real backbone and unparalleled courage to challenge the political status quo of southern racists who treated African Americans as second class citizens.
However, in 2015, we are stick with Eric Holder, whose concept of a "backbone" or a "moral compass" is a totally alien concept not only to him but also his boss, both of whom find it more politically expedient to toss African Americans under the bus in order to placate the ignorant, the bigots and racists that are so prevalent in much of Red State America.
4
There seems to be an abundance of misinformation here. First of all FBI crime statistics clearly show that blacks commit 75-80% of all street crime and black males account for more than 40% of the nation's prison population. The police are doing their job as they should. All the chronic complainers simply do not want to be held accountable for their crimes...Of all the problems in the black community , police harassment is not the problem. Take a look at yourselves before casting aspersions. Of course with leadership like Obama, holder, Sharpton etc. what can anyone really expect?
7
There's a high bar to bringing criminal federal civil rights complaints, so the Justice Dept's decision not to file charges does not mean that 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' didn't happen. It just means that the Justice Dept doesn't have the evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt.
What seems uncontroverted is that Officer Wilson took the initiative to get out of his car, point his service gun at another human being, and pull the trigger 6 times, sending bullets through the person's abdomen and skull.
And, this person wasn't waving around a gun himself, or any other weapon.
This is OK?!? Not with me.
What seems uncontroverted is that Officer Wilson took the initiative to get out of his car, point his service gun at another human being, and pull the trigger 6 times, sending bullets through the person's abdomen and skull.
And, this person wasn't waving around a gun himself, or any other weapon.
This is OK?!? Not with me.
2
The DOJ report discredits the white construction workers who claimed that Brown had his hands up to surrender. At best, he may have had his hands out for balance. His demeanor was not one of surrender....various sources suggest he was in a bad, aggressive mood that day. The video of the store robbery and his attitude with the clerk demonstrates that. He appeared to be spoiling for a fight. When he turned for whatever reason to face Wilson, it's doubtful he wanted to surrender. I wondered why Wilson didn't wait for backup. However, I doubt the result would have been different considering the attitude of the Ferguson Police Dept.
1
What Ferguson Police did should not just be called "racial" or even "racist." It was morally wrong and legally criminal. Couldn't they be charged something?
2
Anybody with a brain who read summaries of what was presented to the Grand Jury knew that the "hands up" claim was bogus. And, each time I heard that chant, in the streets or on TV, the credibility of those chanting it wore thinner and thinner. Now when I hear it, I think of Tawana Brawley and wonder what is motivating people to chant a falsehood.
12
'“I worry that he’ll still be a casualty of history,” Mr. Roorda said in an interview on Thursday. “Fifty years from now, he’ll still be the white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen.”'
But there isn't any dispute about that, is there? He IS a white police officer, and he DID shoot an unarmed black teen.
But there isn't any dispute about that, is there? He IS a white police officer, and he DID shoot an unarmed black teen.
5
Had Brown actually done that he'd still be alive. This is a nonfiction story. People can't make up a new scenario to suit their needs and that is exactly what supporters did. It was a lie.
12
Wilson lied. No way he was hit in the face multiple times. In any case, Wilson will cause more problems because he's a violent person. He chose to shoot Brown six times at a distance. He could've gotten in his car and radioed. He wanted to do what he did, obviously. It was a personal decision. It really didn't have anything to do with being a cop. Many cops have come out and said they wouldn't have handled the situation like that.
3
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday."
"For many, the answer to that question was contained in a second Justice Department report released on Wednesday that described in blistering detail how Ferguson had used its police department ..."
Perhaps the NY Times, as a leader of the media, ought to look inward a bit, and wonder whether media actions contributed to the propagation and acceptance of this "alternative" version of events.
There is clearly a problem, and not just in Ferguson. But jumping to conclusions too quickly that any particular tragic event is the right one to serve as the standard bearer for reform is counterproductive; it can undermine the force and credibility of the overall reform effort.
"For many, the answer to that question was contained in a second Justice Department report released on Wednesday that described in blistering detail how Ferguson had used its police department ..."
Perhaps the NY Times, as a leader of the media, ought to look inward a bit, and wonder whether media actions contributed to the propagation and acceptance of this "alternative" version of events.
There is clearly a problem, and not just in Ferguson. But jumping to conclusions too quickly that any particular tragic event is the right one to serve as the standard bearer for reform is counterproductive; it can undermine the force and credibility of the overall reform effort.
7
I have received thoughtful and supportive comments about my views on the Ferguson racial tensions and the DOJ report that erased the false narrative of "Hands Up Don't Shoot" that the mainstream media exploited for ratings, and average music talent exploited for 15 mins of fame.
There is an issue that remains untouched in this discussion.
To the extent that many insist that the DOJ findings mean nothing, I ask this: What role does the behavior of Black youth play?
I am a Black man, a lawyer. A millennial, and I am often perplexed by loud and outrageous behavior from people who share my race--more importantly how that behavior translates into danger when police are involved.
Instead of calmly addressing the situation, I have seen Black youth throw the switch of police distrust and racism and react violently, refusing to respect or even consider the demands of police officers who approach them. Even if it is misinterpreted, yelling, waving your arms, charging and confronting police officers is the fastest way imaginable to find yourself in a bad situation.
There seems to be an unspoken demand for police officers to unilaterally stand down and take the abuse and confrontation, even if it puts the officer in greater danger or else face withering attacks and accusations of racism.
I have never had a racist encounter with a police officer of any color. Because I put myself in their shoes. What if I was the cop? What if it was my job? I show the respect I would want shown.
There is an issue that remains untouched in this discussion.
To the extent that many insist that the DOJ findings mean nothing, I ask this: What role does the behavior of Black youth play?
I am a Black man, a lawyer. A millennial, and I am often perplexed by loud and outrageous behavior from people who share my race--more importantly how that behavior translates into danger when police are involved.
Instead of calmly addressing the situation, I have seen Black youth throw the switch of police distrust and racism and react violently, refusing to respect or even consider the demands of police officers who approach them. Even if it is misinterpreted, yelling, waving your arms, charging and confronting police officers is the fastest way imaginable to find yourself in a bad situation.
There seems to be an unspoken demand for police officers to unilaterally stand down and take the abuse and confrontation, even if it puts the officer in greater danger or else face withering attacks and accusations of racism.
I have never had a racist encounter with a police officer of any color. Because I put myself in their shoes. What if I was the cop? What if it was my job? I show the respect I would want shown.
20
I do not know what reality you live in, but in the real world when police are more armed more as troops in an occupying country, it is not unreasonable for civilians to ask today's law enforcement to hit the pause button before taking action or pulling out their gun or taser.
Moreover, your blame-the-victim remarks about African American youths is demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of race in this country.
Because, there is plenty of credible evidence in the media and academia that demonstrates that police do treat African Americans youths quite different, and more harshly, than any white person.
But, I am sure people like you think all of this would go away if black youths would simply "act polite" and "clean up" their act by ditching their duds for a suit and tie, right?
Let me clue you in, there is plenty of evidence that demonstrates that a polite tone and a suit and tie will not make a lot of difference with that policeman who stops you for a bogus traffic infraction if you happen to have the "wrong" color of skin - that is the fact in America, regardless of your experience.
Moreover, your blame-the-victim remarks about African American youths is demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of race in this country.
Because, there is plenty of credible evidence in the media and academia that demonstrates that police do treat African Americans youths quite different, and more harshly, than any white person.
But, I am sure people like you think all of this would go away if black youths would simply "act polite" and "clean up" their act by ditching their duds for a suit and tie, right?
Let me clue you in, there is plenty of evidence that demonstrates that a polite tone and a suit and tie will not make a lot of difference with that policeman who stops you for a bogus traffic infraction if you happen to have the "wrong" color of skin - that is the fact in America, regardless of your experience.
2
Yeah, but a lot of times young black men are approached very rudely and many are very afraid of the police, and for good reason. Wilson was known to be verbally abusive - there's even a video of him swearing at a citizen.
2
Mike, thanks for the pointers.
Any time I need more insight on how to be a Black person, can I count on you? Because otherwise it is impossible for me as a Black person to understand being Black, apparently because of the way I dress and show respect for law enforcement.
Well at least you didn't engage in mindless stereotyping.
Relax Mike, hit the pause button. My hands are up.
Any time I need more insight on how to be a Black person, can I count on you? Because otherwise it is impossible for me as a Black person to understand being Black, apparently because of the way I dress and show respect for law enforcement.
Well at least you didn't engage in mindless stereotyping.
Relax Mike, hit the pause button. My hands are up.
4
Police officers and their supporters are absolutely right to feel stung by the rush to judge Darren Wilson before the facts of the situation were fully understood. Prejudice is indeed a bitter pill. The fact that black Americans have abundant good reason to believe that the criminal justice system targets them and mistreats them shouldn't be an excuse for rushing to judgment. Facts matter.
What astonishes me is some people's blindness to the irony here. If law enforcement officials are entitled to dispassionate judgment at the hands of protesters, why aren't our black fellow-citizens entitled to the same degree of deliberation by police and other officials?
When protesters jump to conclusions, reputations get tarnished. When the justice systems does so, people end up dead or (lucky you!!) "just" falsely convicted.
What astonishes me is some people's blindness to the irony here. If law enforcement officials are entitled to dispassionate judgment at the hands of protesters, why aren't our black fellow-citizens entitled to the same degree of deliberation by police and other officials?
When protesters jump to conclusions, reputations get tarnished. When the justice systems does so, people end up dead or (lucky you!!) "just" falsely convicted.
14
The only real "blindness" here are folks like you that make false equivalencies.
Just ask the family of Eric Garner, a black man who was chocked to death by a white cop in New York City simply because he had the audacity to sell individual cigarettes on a street corner.
Or try asking the family of Akai Gurley, a black youth who was shot to death while walking down a stairwell in a New York City housing project because a cop had a panicky trigger finger.
Do I need more examples for you?
Because I can give you plenty more of these types of examples, and just to clue you in, none of which were due to black citizens failing to be "dispassionate" or "deliberative" with police officers.
Just ask the family of Eric Garner, a black man who was chocked to death by a white cop in New York City simply because he had the audacity to sell individual cigarettes on a street corner.
Or try asking the family of Akai Gurley, a black youth who was shot to death while walking down a stairwell in a New York City housing project because a cop had a panicky trigger finger.
Do I need more examples for you?
Because I can give you plenty more of these types of examples, and just to clue you in, none of which were due to black citizens failing to be "dispassionate" or "deliberative" with police officers.
2
Just to be clear, I don't believe there's any equivalence in harm and I don't think I said there was. There's a big difference between being dead and feeling insulted. The individuals you mention (and millions of others you don't) suffer real injury on a daily basis because of the prejudices of some members of the law enforcement community. It's a huge deal, and a stain on our country.
What I'm saying is that the outrage you see from certain quarters (such as Fox's Sean Hannity) about the specific details of surrounding "hands up don't shoot" is morally indefensible and repugnant.
What I'm saying is that the outrage you see from certain quarters (such as Fox's Sean Hannity) about the specific details of surrounding "hands up don't shoot" is morally indefensible and repugnant.
1
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday.
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Because people like you politicized the death of a person of questionable character, and allowed the false narrative to fester and prosper. That's why, Holder.
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Because people like you politicized the death of a person of questionable character, and allowed the false narrative to fester and prosper. That's why, Holder.
15
The NY Times is missing the point. It is not whether the victims of police shootings "have their hands up", it is the unjustified shooting themselves. Tamir Rice did not have time to put his hands up, and the officer who shot him did not take the time to warn him, as shown in the CCTV footage of the shooting. The point is that police, across the country, are murdering citizens, and getting away with it. And that is why so much of we civilians, of all races, are so angry. It is a mystery that so many police are brutal assaulters or murders, or both. How are candidates screened for the job, and what is the philosophy they are taught when confronting civilians? That is what needs to be examined--and changed.
2
So "put to the test" is Times-speak for "exposed as total fabrication." Some of us who followed this story knew that the Ferguson protest movement was based on myth a long time ago. The NY Times is late to the reality party.
12
Three lessons for everyone: 1) don't steal from a convenience store; 2) don't manhandle/assault a convenience store clerk when s/he asks you to pay for an item you are walking out the door with without paying for; 2) don't try to wrestle-away a police officer's gun from him. Parents and teachers should make sure their children/students know these things.
13
There's been no judgement yet, rushed or otherwise. That would've come in a court of law with Officer Wilson facing at least manslaughter charges.
1
Yes, no decision - no truth.
People love, love to vilify the media and federal government when there is misinformation out there, especially when their world view includes an evil media and government. I personally never came to the conclusion that Darren Wilson had done anything criminal based on media reports, and I found that the Times stories never suggested that he had.
The blame for the misinformation here should be put solely on those who lied. All those critics of the media and DOJ should realize that false narratives and misinformation are just as common in our society as the truth. The most obvious example is the large portion of the population denying that anthropogenic climate change is happening. Just like the witnesses that lied, leading to a protest based on fantasy, those who deny the reality of climate change do irreparable harm to national goodwill and to policy debate.
The blame for the misinformation here should be put solely on those who lied. All those critics of the media and DOJ should realize that false narratives and misinformation are just as common in our society as the truth. The most obvious example is the large portion of the population denying that anthropogenic climate change is happening. Just like the witnesses that lied, leading to a protest based on fantasy, those who deny the reality of climate change do irreparable harm to national goodwill and to policy debate.
2
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,”
When police see everyone they meet as either doing something wrong or at least planning to, they are training the citizen to see a bad stop, a bad shoot, another dead "innocent". When it happens often enough, the "witnesses" see what they have been trained to see through years of an abusive system. I don't see how Attorney General Holder could be surprised at this. Not to mention it was a very catchy phrase!
When police see everyone they meet as either doing something wrong or at least planning to, they are training the citizen to see a bad stop, a bad shoot, another dead "innocent". When it happens often enough, the "witnesses" see what they have been trained to see through years of an abusive system. I don't see how Attorney General Holder could be surprised at this. Not to mention it was a very catchy phrase!
It would be nice if progress in America could be made at a measured, thoughtful pace. It can't. For better or worse, change happens in fits and starts, as in this case -
Elect first African-American president: Two Steps forward.
Hands Up, Don't Shoot: One Step backward.
Elect first African-American president: Two Steps forward.
Hands Up, Don't Shoot: One Step backward.
Two villains in the Ferguson process haven't been confronted with their perfidy: Obama & Holder.
They embraced the false "Hands Up" narrative when they knew it was suspect. Four days after the shooting and initial rioting, when the the FBI started interviewing eyewitnesses, they had evidence backing up Officer Wilson's explanation. And they knew from the preliminary forensic report about the blood trail that Brown was moving toward Wilson when he was shot. And they knew from the convenience store security tape Brown was a physically menacing male.
Nevertheless Obama immediately sided with the 'black' version of the story: an armed teen had been unjustly killed by a white cop. He issued a statement sending his prayers and ‘deepest condolences’ to the Brown family and the community, urging everyone across the country to ‘remember this young man through reflection and understanding.’ Three White House officials were sent to attend the Brown funeral, and Holder to commiserate with the family, even though they knew the narrative was suspect.
They continued to remain mute after the Grand Jury refused to indict Wilson and more rioting followed. And through it all allowed Wilson to become a target of hate throughout the U.S. even as evidence continued to pile up to support him.
It's a sad but evident truth: Obama and Holder can't be trusted to be objective when race is involved. That's why we shouldn't accept the Ferguson report at face value.
They embraced the false "Hands Up" narrative when they knew it was suspect. Four days after the shooting and initial rioting, when the the FBI started interviewing eyewitnesses, they had evidence backing up Officer Wilson's explanation. And they knew from the preliminary forensic report about the blood trail that Brown was moving toward Wilson when he was shot. And they knew from the convenience store security tape Brown was a physically menacing male.
Nevertheless Obama immediately sided with the 'black' version of the story: an armed teen had been unjustly killed by a white cop. He issued a statement sending his prayers and ‘deepest condolences’ to the Brown family and the community, urging everyone across the country to ‘remember this young man through reflection and understanding.’ Three White House officials were sent to attend the Brown funeral, and Holder to commiserate with the family, even though they knew the narrative was suspect.
They continued to remain mute after the Grand Jury refused to indict Wilson and more rioting followed. And through it all allowed Wilson to become a target of hate throughout the U.S. even as evidence continued to pile up to support him.
It's a sad but evident truth: Obama and Holder can't be trusted to be objective when race is involved. That's why we shouldn't accept the Ferguson report at face value.
13
Prosecutor and murderous cop - those are the villains.
1
Look, any cause built upon a lie is bankrupt. It's the equivalent of multiplying a large number by zero. That unfortunately is the impact that Michael Brown's death has on the issue of police and African American relations. Brown is like Sharpton when it comes to establishing a just cause to rally around. He's not.
The real issue that should give us all cause for pause is the systemic targeting of African Americans by the Ferguson police and town government to raise revenues for the town. That is evocative of when southern states used their police and sheriffs to support the lynch mobs and the killers of the freedom riders. It may have "only" been done more the money, but once a government starts down that path, only bad things happen.
Forget the lie of "Hands up." It will live in the same infamy as Ms Brawley.
But do not forget the use of the police force to squeeze money out of the population. Down that path lies very big trouble.
The real issue that should give us all cause for pause is the systemic targeting of African Americans by the Ferguson police and town government to raise revenues for the town. That is evocative of when southern states used their police and sheriffs to support the lynch mobs and the killers of the freedom riders. It may have "only" been done more the money, but once a government starts down that path, only bad things happen.
Forget the lie of "Hands up." It will live in the same infamy as Ms Brawley.
But do not forget the use of the police force to squeeze money out of the population. Down that path lies very big trouble.
3
Why is it that "progressives" are so willing to accept lies and when the lie is exposed so unwilling to accept the fact?
11
"It remains essential to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily.”
Yes.
Of course, leaders like the president and Mr. Holder have a collective track record of jumping to conclusions, concocting stories, and then publicly disseminating their highly divisive, negative narratives of incidents. Most of them prove false on further examination. Is there any real question of the sources of the "strong, alternative versions?" Certainly, they had help with Ferguson. Reverends Sharpton and Jackson were major leaders in disseminating the "strong alternative version" - likely because they knew it would be popular among some constituent groups.
I don't doubt or question that there are widely differing points of view and opinions, based on race. What outrages me is that some enjoy profiting from perpetually dividing the nation along racial lines. Within the context of this particular commentary, Mr. Holder is playing in the role of Claude Rains. He is "shocked, SHOCKED to learn that false and divisive narratives are being proffered and believed."
Give us a break, sir! ...And weren't you supposed to be leaving, soon? Please, just leave your keys on the desk, turn out the lights, and be kind enough to close the door behind you.
Yes.
Of course, leaders like the president and Mr. Holder have a collective track record of jumping to conclusions, concocting stories, and then publicly disseminating their highly divisive, negative narratives of incidents. Most of them prove false on further examination. Is there any real question of the sources of the "strong, alternative versions?" Certainly, they had help with Ferguson. Reverends Sharpton and Jackson were major leaders in disseminating the "strong alternative version" - likely because they knew it would be popular among some constituent groups.
I don't doubt or question that there are widely differing points of view and opinions, based on race. What outrages me is that some enjoy profiting from perpetually dividing the nation along racial lines. Within the context of this particular commentary, Mr. Holder is playing in the role of Claude Rains. He is "shocked, SHOCKED to learn that false and divisive narratives are being proffered and believed."
Give us a break, sir! ...And weren't you supposed to be leaving, soon? Please, just leave your keys on the desk, turn out the lights, and be kind enough to close the door behind you.
16
There are at least a few truths to be taken from this situation.
1) Don't hit a police officer. If you do there is a very good chance that you will be shot.
2) There is systemic racism within the Ferguson police department.
3) Ferguson, like so many other small cities/municipalities are corrupt in their reliance on traffic tickets, fines etc to run their governments. Citizens should not be viewed as ATMs that have no rights.
What we should also realize is that not all police officers are racist and corrupt but that much still needs to be done to make all public officials accountable for their actions.
1) Don't hit a police officer. If you do there is a very good chance that you will be shot.
2) There is systemic racism within the Ferguson police department.
3) Ferguson, like so many other small cities/municipalities are corrupt in their reliance on traffic tickets, fines etc to run their governments. Citizens should not be viewed as ATMs that have no rights.
What we should also realize is that not all police officers are racist and corrupt but that much still needs to be done to make all public officials accountable for their actions.
5
The New York Times has pushed its' leftist agenda for months in this case. Now, amazingly, once again it has been proven wrong. Darren Wilson's life has been ruined by publications such as this. When does Officer Wilson get an apology from the paper?
20
If that was the extent of the report (Wilson didn't shoot a man with "hands up") this story would have been buried deep in the paper. Since Holder at the same time found racism in the PD then it became a front page story for the Times.
4
This is complete insanity. There is no other term that is appropriate.
Finally, the NYT and other media have stopped beginning every Ferguson story with "White police officer kills unarmed black man", a cherry picked race baiting introduction if there ever was one. However, the truth that Wilson wasn't a racist is getting plowed over by "bigger issues" (ie. Ferguson police racism, disproportionate arrests, etc.), a transparent move to override the fact that Wilson wasn't guilty and the entire story promulgated throughout the summer and fall was based on a lie. The resulting damage to innocent peoples businesses and homes in the resulting riots is never mentioned anymore.
This is not ok. Officer Wilson and the general population deserve a real apology and an accounting and then this story needs to be put to bed. The media has a real responsibility for a terrible national lie and it is failing miserably to correct it.
Finally, the NYT and other media have stopped beginning every Ferguson story with "White police officer kills unarmed black man", a cherry picked race baiting introduction if there ever was one. However, the truth that Wilson wasn't a racist is getting plowed over by "bigger issues" (ie. Ferguson police racism, disproportionate arrests, etc.), a transparent move to override the fact that Wilson wasn't guilty and the entire story promulgated throughout the summer and fall was based on a lie. The resulting damage to innocent peoples businesses and homes in the resulting riots is never mentioned anymore.
This is not ok. Officer Wilson and the general population deserve a real apology and an accounting and then this story needs to be put to bed. The media has a real responsibility for a terrible national lie and it is failing miserably to correct it.
20
So if the kid's hands were not up, it's "move along, nothing to see here"?
1
@David Y: You get my "pick"
1
Though I don't doubt that the DoJ can prove some level of wrong-doing within the Ferguson PD, I can't help but think that the charge is a defensive one to cover / save face for being so divisively WRONG about ex-Officer Wilson.
Accusing, alleging, or even proving that the Ferguson PD tickets more minorities than they might otherwise still does not prove systematic civil rights violations. Has the DoJ examined every citation to confirm which ones were issued for racially motivated reasons and which ones were actually violations of the law? Or have they just noticed that minorities collected more tickets?
To some degree, the DoJ could issue similar charges to any police department in the country... or any DMV, tax collector, health inspector, elevator inspector, or home inspector...
In this case the DoJ is acting in the role of the police officer who realizes that a reckless driving ticket may not stand up in court, so he issues a "driving to fast for conditions" ticket instead. The DoJ becomes guilty of the same prejudice they allege to abhor, because in the end, they have to "get their man." Even if you're innocent, you're still guilty of something. Isn't that attitude the rioters thought they were protesting?
Accusing, alleging, or even proving that the Ferguson PD tickets more minorities than they might otherwise still does not prove systematic civil rights violations. Has the DoJ examined every citation to confirm which ones were issued for racially motivated reasons and which ones were actually violations of the law? Or have they just noticed that minorities collected more tickets?
To some degree, the DoJ could issue similar charges to any police department in the country... or any DMV, tax collector, health inspector, elevator inspector, or home inspector...
In this case the DoJ is acting in the role of the police officer who realizes that a reckless driving ticket may not stand up in court, so he issues a "driving to fast for conditions" ticket instead. The DoJ becomes guilty of the same prejudice they allege to abhor, because in the end, they have to "get their man." Even if you're innocent, you're still guilty of something. Isn't that attitude the rioters thought they were protesting?
7
AG Holder stated with conviction that the evidence, testimony, autopsy reports ALL confirmed that Brown did NOT have his hands up when shot by Officer Wilson. The false testimony from biased witnesses were totally discredited. It's time to end this falsehood and the resulting riots and looting incited by professional agitators and political opportunists. Luckily, the Justice Department managed to run some statistics to allege more traffic stops of minorities so the whole mess wasn't a total bust.
13
Systemic racism in the town government, and its police department, but not in Darren Williams' response to Michael Brown? That makes no sense. I hope this guy is recognized wherever he goes, and will have trouble finding another job. Perhaps a civil suit will finish him off, as he finished off a citizen of Ferguson.
5
When we wonder how a false narrative became accepted as true, perhaps we should focus on the manner in which the New York Times described Mr. Brown. The Times unfailingly chose to describe Mr. Brown as "an unarmed black man". This was correct but misleading, as it implies that Mr. Brown was passive and defenseless, gunned down for no reason. A more balanced description might have been that Mr. Brown was attacking Officer Wilson, and turned out to be unarmed. The uniformity of the Times's descriptions in this way would seem to betray an intent to convey one version of the facts, and a version that does not seem to have proven to be correct.
20
If you're looking for a correction in the Times about this falsehood they continually printed then you're going to wait a long time. The "gentle giant" was nothing but a violent thug who had just assaulted a store owner while stealing merchandise (caught on video but the Times won't tell you that).
11
I think it is time to put Ferguson into perspective - one small town where things went terribly wrong. It is surprising that such events are not happening in many more places around our land. There are over 17,985 State and Local Police Departments, all operating under different rules, different leaderships, different environments, and different ideas. How can they ALL be made efficient, standard and organized so that no more Fergusons will happen? I do not have the answer. But, surely the size and range and diversity of our law enforcement agencies must be better understood by the public. "Hands Up" should be changed to "Hands Out" to signify reaching out for better understanding and ways to improve ALL police departments as needed......
9
Just as in the case of Oscar Grant, where there's video that shows Officer Mehserle placing his Tazer in it's holder, then he walks over to Oscar Grant who's being held on the ground on his stomach by two other officers, with his hands behind his back; Mehserle then stands over Oscar, pulls out his gun and shoots into Oscar's back. Then he claims he meant to pull out his Tazer? What, are you kidding me! I saw the video with my own eyes! Just as witnesses saw Mike Brown with his hands up. No one saw him with a weapon, that's for sure. Are we really supposed to believe the racist-ridden police department and Ferguson government officials? Does anyone expect us to believe that grown men who are trained police couldn't have subdued 11-year-old Tamir Rice? Has anyone mentioned that these acts against unarmed innocent victims are cowardly beyond belief? These cops are coming off as armed bullies who shoot first and don't even ask any questions! And they get away with it! With no consequences except, of course, bundles of money collected for "their defense." Does this racist government expect us to believe that the police are incapable of dealing with an unarmed citizen without resorting to murder? When a group of cops, as was the case with Eric Garner, kill an unarmed man whether by gun or choke-hold, clearly, it's no different than a drive-by shooting! It's a cowardly murder, plain and simple and it's got to be put to a stop by any means necessary!
1
Why is Tom Jackson still the police chief in Ferguson?
4
The differences between the narratives about police actions that blacks tell each other and the ones that whites tell each other are so stark, reconciling them is culturally impossible. I don't believe either side even wants them to be reconciled because activists on each side of this major divide in American society benefit from the differences.
I've come to the conclusion that arguing about the differing narratives is a waste of time because assumptions are automatically made about one's motives when doing so. In the cases of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Eric Garner of Staten Island, and the 2012 death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, what happened is less important than the overall arc of understanding about how blacks are treated by police and security officers.
Black culture knows that racism is involved in many arrests and detentions of black citizens, and the Justice Dept just confirmed that such is the case in Ferguson, MO. That each of the three black men mentioned above took actions which led to their own deaths is irrelevant to the wider argument that America has a serious race problem which need to be addressed and dealt with by both blacks and whites at all levels of society and government. As impossible as it is, we still need to deal with our black-white racial divide.
2
Darren Wilson was part of a proven racist armed force that had been harassing the people of Ferguson forever. So let's just shorten it to "Don't Shoot." Or "Don't put me in a Chokehold." Or "Don't shoot me because I'm about to buy a weapon and I'm on the phone with my girlfriend at Walmart." Or "Don't shoot me because you're emotionally unstable and should never been hired by another police force in the first place." Or "Don't Shoot because I'm wearing a hoodie." "Black Skin Don't Shoot." Take your pick.
7
The only thing I am having trouble with is why six bullets. Even if there had only been one bullet and it became a hand to hand struggle. One bullet properly place in the knee cap would definitely slow the man down. Two bullets in both knee caps should have been able to stop the man, or at least put him at a severe disadvantage in hand to hand combat. Having just had a total knee replaced my self, the pain in the first two weeks after surgery is considerable. I just don't believe that six bullets was justified. I do believe Michael Brown did rob the store as the tape shows. But the tape also shows he did not do it with a gun. Perhaps Michael Brown did deserve some kind of punishment, but death by six bullets, that's kind of hard to believe.
2
Two points to consider.
First, James Bond to the contrary, it is not that easy to place a pistol shot in as small of a target as the kneecap of a man standing still, much less in a moving target.
Second, while the pain argument makes sense on some levels, the adrenalin rush one has during a violent confrontation can make it possible to continue moving under conditions that would normally incapacitate one.
First, James Bond to the contrary, it is not that easy to place a pistol shot in as small of a target as the kneecap of a man standing still, much less in a moving target.
Second, while the pain argument makes sense on some levels, the adrenalin rush one has during a violent confrontation can make it possible to continue moving under conditions that would normally incapacitate one.
8
Forensics has well proven that after being shot once (while arguing at the SUV) Brown did step away - for a moment. Brown then turned around to continue his advance and attack to Wilson. Wilson shot him again. Brown did not stop. (Repeat several times).
This is what you should be considering: WHY DID BROWN refuse to stop his advance & attack on an armed officer who had repeatedly order him to stop?
Brown was high (see toxicology results) and mentally ill (see reports). His violence & rage were so immense and he had no skills to think logically.
Good luck, Ralph.
This is what you should be considering: WHY DID BROWN refuse to stop his advance & attack on an armed officer who had repeatedly order him to stop?
Brown was high (see toxicology results) and mentally ill (see reports). His violence & rage were so immense and he had no skills to think logically.
Good luck, Ralph.
8
It is an indicator of a "downside" of social media we need to understand. While the volume of "social media" response far outweighs the "edited, fact checked, validated" media response, the sheer volume and penetration can legitimize completely false stories. This is the clear indication that "social media" accounts without any fact checking and with the ability to anonymously post "stories" and "opinions" and "self aggrandizing" accounts should ALL be "taken with a grain of salt" as to their credibility. They are "opinions" not necessarily accurate accounts.
4
Repeating a lie as a "rallying call" does not help your cause.
25
No matter how hard Valerie Jarrett, Barack Obama, and Eric Holder try, they can't turn Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin into Rosa Parks.
19
Did i miss where in the story it said Mr. Brown's hands were not up? I did see "Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. cast doubt on the “hands up” account" but that doesn't sound like he said they weren't up.
6
Holder does not want to chill his chances for s big time private-sector job when he leaves the AG's office soon. So he must equivocate.
2
Suggest you read the DOJ report.
1
The Wilson-Michael Brown situation, by law, must be a "stand alone" legal case. It was clear by anyone who READ the Department of Justice report that Michael Brown clearly assaulted Officer Wilson in the police vehicle, and all the credible witness, stated that Michael Brown was charging toward Officer Wilson to again attempt to assault him and get the officer's gun. This was the testimony gotten by the FBI and the DOJ personnel. This DOJ report has nothing to do with grand jury testimony.
The theme of "hands up" and the ideas that Brown was shot in the back were all based on lies. The DOJ report does not put that them in question. The DOJ report TOTALLY refutes that theme. Everyone should READ THE DOJ REPORT. There is no "spin" or political agenda in that report.
"Hands up, don't shoot" was a false characterization of the actual truth.
The theme of "hands up" and the ideas that Brown was shot in the back were all based on lies. The DOJ report does not put that them in question. The DOJ report TOTALLY refutes that theme. Everyone should READ THE DOJ REPORT. There is no "spin" or political agenda in that report.
"Hands up, don't shoot" was a false characterization of the actual truth.
12
If the AG would have brought charges against Officer Wilson the anti President O'Bama faction would have screamed about political manipulation. Now they scream it was the prsident's fault that there was an uproar over Michael Brown's death.
But none will recognize that racism exists in Ferguson or other cities. Racist jokes by the officers. A higher proportion of ticketing blacks. More blacks in prisons for committing the same offenses as whites. None of this matters to a larges segment of America. And this is why racism continues to exist.
But none will recognize that racism exists in Ferguson or other cities. Racist jokes by the officers. A higher proportion of ticketing blacks. More blacks in prisons for committing the same offenses as whites. None of this matters to a larges segment of America. And this is why racism continues to exist.
1
One of the most salient points from this story for the media and the public should be that words and their connotation matter:
"Unarmed black teenager" connotes a black kid who was at the wrong place at the wrong time. While on the surface factual, it was also disingenuous and lacking context; something the media is loathe to change when it serves up ratings.
The true story would not have been as palatable to a certain segment of society: a young man who was lacking the inner moral compass that would have told him that robbing a store followed by attacking a police officer (regardless of color) in his car would not end well.
"Unarmed black teenager" connotes a black kid who was at the wrong place at the wrong time. While on the surface factual, it was also disingenuous and lacking context; something the media is loathe to change when it serves up ratings.
The true story would not have been as palatable to a certain segment of society: a young man who was lacking the inner moral compass that would have told him that robbing a store followed by attacking a police officer (regardless of color) in his car would not end well.
18
We do not know if he attacked first or was attacked. We will never know because the prosecutor made sure of that. A bunch of tricky business.
History repeats itself. Those who see this as hyperbole and inaccurate have no grasp of history.
We as a nation have never admitted culpability, and are unwilling to face the ignominious past in relation to blacks.
Post slavery was a period of apartheid that resonates today.
What occurs now, occurred way back when. It has been happening for generations. Long before statistics on the dysfunction of SOME blacks these acts were committed with a "noose" , today the gun is the primary source of execution.....
We were doomed to repeat history....
We as a nation have never admitted culpability, and are unwilling to face the ignominious past in relation to blacks.
Post slavery was a period of apartheid that resonates today.
What occurs now, occurred way back when. It has been happening for generations. Long before statistics on the dysfunction of SOME blacks these acts were committed with a "noose" , today the gun is the primary source of execution.....
We were doomed to repeat history....
1
"Rush to judgment" is one of the worst things we, as a society does. Everyone thinks they "know." Blame it on inability of people to wait for, and sift through facts and the big picture (critical thinking) and 95% on the Media: spin, embellishment, propagation of distorted "truths", speculation and greed. Making money by exciting and inciting people with bad and incomplete information disguised as facts and reporting should be a crime. It is morally reprehensible. How sad that we have devolved so greatly.
27
The actual fact is, no one will really know what happened. What we DO know, is that a lot of people doubted there was racial bias until hard evidence came out from Holder's investigation. What that proves is there is systematic racial bias in Ferguson (and likely in most police departments across the country). What that also proves, is that the symbol for "hands up, don't shoot" is applicable in this scenario - as the gesture symbolizes non-threatening: black people do not deserve to be shot/incarcerated/harassed by police at the rate they currently are. They are not always a threat. Black people deserve to be treated the same respect, due process, judgment from public servants/cops, and to be questioned before shot - the same benefit of the doubt that white people enjoy. They deserve not to have longer criminal sentencing for the same crimes. They deserve not to be arrested at a higher rate when whites are proven to commit the same crime (drug use). So "Hands Up" to the cops, these people are NOT your default targets.
3
The news last night said the brother of Michael Brown's lawyer is mayor of a town of 3,000 persons whose police force thrives on traffic tickets. Another, an NAACP exec, Mr. Crump, is mayor of town of 800 persons (!), whose police force also thrives on writing traffic tickets. In both towns, white motorists are the most often-cited, to no one's surprise. Both are in north St. Louis County.
6
Normally the NYT "picks" reflect the majority of readers opinions. Interesting that here, while the most favored comments point out that the media (including this paper) perpetrated a lie in regard to Mike Brown's shooting, the editor "picks" focus on the least liked comments that assert that Mike Brown's shooting stems from systemic racism in Ferguson.
21
Sadly, it is not surprising. From the NYT’s editorial board, to its op ed pieces, there was a rush to judgment to this tragic story. Frankly, the NYT’s has done more damage to its brand by pushing the black teenager with his hands up gunned down by a white cop story against where the facts were pointing than Brian Williams did to NBC News with his conflated memories from Iraq.
9
America's teens would benefit more from being told, "Hands up! Don't steal!" The video of Michael Brown stealing the cigarillos, and threatening the owner by the doorway, said it all. He was still in rage mode when the cop saw him parading down the middle of the street, all 6 ft. 4 in. and 280 lbs. of him. End of story.
28
His judgement was also impaired by a very high level of THC in his blood ... a level more than twice the max that will result in a drugged driving charge in the state of Washington. Have yet to read a NYTimes story that mentions that. Perhaps I missed it.
10
The debate and rhetoric over whether Mike Brown uttered the four iconic words or was able to get both hands up before he was killed misses the bigger issue, which is that is that for so many of us it was believable that he did, despite facts or accounts staying otherwise. And remains just as believable today, despite formal reports to the contrary.
We believe that as a young Black man in this country, it didn't matter whether he was fleeing or armed or capitulating or surrendering. He would have been shot no matter what.
Whereas we believe that if he was a young White man, he wouldn't have been shot. Whether he was running or standing still, or even armed. No matter what.
Find me the report that can alleviate the mistrust and emotion that permits my blind faith in these fervent beliefs, and maybe we'll find progress. This one won't cut it. There's too much history telling me not to buy what they're selling.
We believe that as a young Black man in this country, it didn't matter whether he was fleeing or armed or capitulating or surrendering. He would have been shot no matter what.
Whereas we believe that if he was a young White man, he wouldn't have been shot. Whether he was running or standing still, or even armed. No matter what.
Find me the report that can alleviate the mistrust and emotion that permits my blind faith in these fervent beliefs, and maybe we'll find progress. This one won't cut it. There's too much history telling me not to buy what they're selling.
7
You are making the mistake of asserting that a super set of motives dictates behaviors regardless of the facts in evidence. That is like intelligent design verses evolution where the facts in evidence presented by nature are explained by evolution and do not confirm the former which requires factors that must be taken in faith to be confirmed. There is ample evidence of racial discrimination in many places across our country and a failure by our country as a whole to end this but a police officer who acted as he was obliged by circumstances should not be scapegoated, it does not help.
3
After reading all the reports in past several months about what happened or didn't happen in Ferguson, it's clear to me that Michael Brown just snapped. He snapped as a result of the inhumane treatment he and his African American brothers and sisters have suffered in Ferguson for years. The only real surprise is that it took so long to happen. I believe what's true is he reached into Officer Wilsons patrol car with the intention of striking back. What's for certain is his death was not in vain.
Hopefully, Michaels death will be the catalyst for wholesale systemic change throughout our great country. We have overcome and conquered injustice in our past and we will do so again. We will give voice to Michael, Darren, the 12 year old boy in Cleveland and hundreds of others.
I believe this because there are too many good and decent people who have the courage to right another wrong.
Hopefully, Michaels death will be the catalyst for wholesale systemic change throughout our great country. We have overcome and conquered injustice in our past and we will do so again. We will give voice to Michael, Darren, the 12 year old boy in Cleveland and hundreds of others.
I believe this because there are too many good and decent people who have the courage to right another wrong.
Anyone notice how popular the comments are that focus on pointing blame at Holder and Obama and the media? This article has an unfortunate headline, because it does at some point recognize the validity of fear and suspicion in certain communities of those who are supposed to "protect and serve." It does refer to actual, race-based corruption.
Instead, however, people want to use the "hands up, don't shoot" issue as evidence that this whole thing is a left-wing conspiracy devised to attack whites.
Instead, however, people want to use the "hands up, don't shoot" issue as evidence that this whole thing is a left-wing conspiracy devised to attack whites.
5
F. Scott Fitzgerald said the test of a mature mind is to be able to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time and still function.
These ideas are only seemingly contradictory, and not mutually exclusive:
1. The 'hands up, don't shoot' meme is based on an untruth; moreover it is inflammatory and unhelpful, as demonstrable untruthfulness undermines even a valid argument.
2. The Ferguson police department is tainted by pervasive and blatant racism which both perpetuates and exacerbates injustice and tension, and which is exactly contrary to the purpose of a police department, namely to serve the community and keep the peace.
I submit it is not only possible but essential to be able to hold both ideas without your head exploding. The existing mutual suspicion just makes things worse. (If I were a cop, if a suspect told me to back off, 'I can't breathe', now I'd be wondering if he might be trying to get me to drop my guard so he could reach for his - or my - weapon.)
These ideas are only seemingly contradictory, and not mutually exclusive:
1. The 'hands up, don't shoot' meme is based on an untruth; moreover it is inflammatory and unhelpful, as demonstrable untruthfulness undermines even a valid argument.
2. The Ferguson police department is tainted by pervasive and blatant racism which both perpetuates and exacerbates injustice and tension, and which is exactly contrary to the purpose of a police department, namely to serve the community and keep the peace.
I submit it is not only possible but essential to be able to hold both ideas without your head exploding. The existing mutual suspicion just makes things worse. (If I were a cop, if a suspect told me to back off, 'I can't breathe', now I'd be wondering if he might be trying to get me to drop my guard so he could reach for his - or my - weapon.)
1
I am disappointed that the NYtimes would spend this much time talking about whether or not MB's hands were up or not. At this point that one particular detail is totally irrelevant in the conversation of systematic abuse by police departments around the country.
the Mike Brown shooting is a symptom of the larger issues we have in this country in regards to racial discrimination. Debating this single detail only serves to distract from the wider picture.
Lets move on from talking about this one point which is what defendants of the status quo keep harping on as somehow evidence that racial discrimination is over.
the Mike Brown shooting is a symptom of the larger issues we have in this country in regards to racial discrimination. Debating this single detail only serves to distract from the wider picture.
Lets move on from talking about this one point which is what defendants of the status quo keep harping on as somehow evidence that racial discrimination is over.
1
Lies are lies. Many of the people who saw Brown shot by officer Wilson lied about the circumstances of the incident, and only recanted under close interrogation by the authorities. Their lies lead to riots, looting and the fires which destroyed many businesses in Ferguson. "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie from the start. Why people living in a community would wantonly torch and destroy their own community is a mystery. It is also misguided stupidity.
16
Ferguson is a disgusting example of a police state gone brutally awry. How can anyone here justify emails of the awful disgusting nature that was used to justify the mistreatment of blacks by the Ferguson PD. If the same kind of mistreatment was applied to whites anywhere by blacks in power you would have conservatives here calling for armed insurrection. My, my, how tribal a society we have become
5
One thing Mr. Holder stated rings true for me here in St. Louis. This situation was a powder keg, and this incident set it off.
My statements come as one who moved here from the west coast many years ago.
Unfortunately, the culture here in St. Louis is very toxic.
There's a long history of racial bias toward African Americansd - often institutional and those that grew up here are largely blind to it. Add to that the fact that St. Louis has hundreds of tiny independent communities that rely on tickets for their income. The tension is more palpable here than in any other community that I've lived in or visited.
Conversely, there's also a lot of racial bias to whites from African Americans. Understandable now, but initially very confusing to me when I moved here. I was in Atlanta last week on business and was treated as just another person by everyone of every ethnicity - a refreshing change from St. Louis.
So, yes, perhaps the specific incident was not related accurately. If we focus on those details, then we miss the bigger picture. The St. Louis area is a seething mess of mutual distrust and prejudice by whites and blacks. The shooting merely cracked the lid on the problem.
My statements come as one who moved here from the west coast many years ago.
Unfortunately, the culture here in St. Louis is very toxic.
There's a long history of racial bias toward African Americansd - often institutional and those that grew up here are largely blind to it. Add to that the fact that St. Louis has hundreds of tiny independent communities that rely on tickets for their income. The tension is more palpable here than in any other community that I've lived in or visited.
Conversely, there's also a lot of racial bias to whites from African Americans. Understandable now, but initially very confusing to me when I moved here. I was in Atlanta last week on business and was treated as just another person by everyone of every ethnicity - a refreshing change from St. Louis.
So, yes, perhaps the specific incident was not related accurately. If we focus on those details, then we miss the bigger picture. The St. Louis area is a seething mess of mutual distrust and prejudice by whites and blacks. The shooting merely cracked the lid on the problem.
5
Best comment Ive read in awhile. I lived in STL a few years ago. Good to see other people have noticed what is happening there . The city and its people personify " Im not racist, but....."
2
It's not important that the Narrative isn't true.
What's important is that it be plausible to the foolish and ignorant, so that it is "able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily" by the Democrats' constituents.
What's important is that it be plausible to the foolish and ignorant, so that it is "able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily" by the Democrats' constituents.
6
Yesterday here in Philadehia a young black police officer was shot and died stopping a robbery. WHere is the media outrage? The hands up don't shoot narrative actually was played out by black congressmen in the Capitol. I'm convinced that Americans are knee jerk reactors to the sensation of the media. That includes our government leaders. N
13
I hope that individuals that automatically repeated the phrase and bought the narrative about a racist police officer killing in cold blood an innocent black victim will contemplate how they fell prey to their biases. It is possible to acknowledge and work against racism in this country, and at the same time, to preserve due process and human dignity for all people, police officer and civilian. There is a strong Marxist movement in this country. There are those who would justify the subversion of individual dignity if it will help to promote greater equality and power for oppressed lower status groups. Those who see the danger in this approach--it has led to disastrous tyranny in the world, along with deeply engrained prejudices that last--must take a stand. We can promote racial and ethnic equality for the whole while remaining fair-minded and respecting the dignity of all. Discrimination against an individual is not justified regardless of group identity. One cannot make up for the past by hurting individual who happen to be from a powerful group (police officers). Allowing the facts not to matter as much as ones social agenda is dangerous.
8
I recall reading two literally competing background articles in this paper on officer Wilson and Michael Brown. They were as I say physically side by side. One gushed with empathy one was derisive. Now a couple months later from other sources I learned the policeman was in fact very capable and had overcome his not great childhood. The victim was something very much worse than simply "troubled". The game changer for me was his apparent intoxication the liquor store banditry and the fact that neither was it turns out at all out of character. And no I do not think a robbery (of it's self) warrants deadly force. I too was terrorized listening to a freightened young Treyvon's quaking last phone. I have kids and I was once young but this incident was nothing like that one.
So then, to the now age old modern lament of victims of media bias "where do I go to get my reputation back" I offer this reassuring rejoinder. Take heart no one really reads the Grey Lady anymore much less taker her seriously. For me it's about as informative as brushing my teeth.
So then, to the now age old modern lament of victims of media bias "where do I go to get my reputation back" I offer this reassuring rejoinder. Take heart no one really reads the Grey Lady anymore much less taker her seriously. For me it's about as informative as brushing my teeth.
4
George Zimmerman was also found not guilty. That is a legal standard meaning that either the physical evidence is not overwhelming or there are conflicting testimonials.
It is not the same as being innocent or without fault.
There can be no doubt that the entire Ferguson environment was a provocative one with citizens constantly under siege and disrespected by revenue hungry officers. It is very likely that Officer Wilson could have done many things differently before using deadly force. It is also very likely that he knew he did not have to exercise such care.
It is not the same as being innocent or without fault.
There can be no doubt that the entire Ferguson environment was a provocative one with citizens constantly under siege and disrespected by revenue hungry officers. It is very likely that Officer Wilson could have done many things differently before using deadly force. It is also very likely that he knew he did not have to exercise such care.
3
It is very likely that you have not read the lengthy DOJ report in which every scintilla of physical and forensic evidence supports Officer Wilson's version of events. An audio recording supports Officer Wilson's version of shots fired and pauses in between. The only witnesses that the DOJ deems credible support Officer Wilson's version of events. The testimony of Michael Brown's friend, Darien Johnson, was deemed not credible by the DOJ.
4
The headline should say, "Another phony civil rights demonstration goes by the boards", as it is now proven the demonstrators were lying. The demonstrators destroyed Ferguson based on a lie when they knew what was being said was a lie. The Blacks then wonder why White people may not be welcoming them with open arms. It is their behavior, not the color of their skin.
14
The NY Times is trying to cover the false narrative of "hands up. don't shoot" by claiming one needs to look at the bigger picture. Sadly, the bigger picture really is that Holder let this false narrative fester for months when he knew it wasn't true. Ferguson burned and riots occurred in many cities.
The media and all of the protestors got it wrong. Silly athletes and Congressional staffers too.
Shame on anyone and everyone who furthered this false narrative.
The media and all of the protestors got it wrong. Silly athletes and Congressional staffers too.
Shame on anyone and everyone who furthered this false narrative.
23
Whether Michael Brown put his hands up or not is almost immaterial. It's a symbolic gesture that all blacks can relate to in their lives. It's effective. It's brilliant really.
2
Really?
4
The biggest problem today isn't global warming or terrorism or the economy. The biggest problem is a disregard for the truth.
12
"To me he had his hands up". This quote captures the fundamental way in which our President has transformed Amercia. The actual facts no longer matter. You pursue your greivences by presentation of a narrative. You enllist allies in the press to echo your narrative and to ingore all evidence to the contrary. You destroy the repudation of man who was heroically defending himself and the public from a violent bully. You denigrate the grand jury process. And in the end when the truth finally prevails you openly admit you have never been concerned about the truth. And the media credits you with having a point because a city made up of 97% black American's, with rights of self government, have allowed a minority of "public servants" to mistreat them.
11
An article (I forget where) concerning the Rolling Stone/UVA debacle coined the term "truthiness" to refer to this phenomenon. It goes hand-in-hand with kneejerk political correctness.
3
I have read all the eye and expert witness testimonies. There are myths which influenced the investigation including the myth of raised hands. All the credible 12 witnesses said that Michael Brown's arms were raised at shoulder level for at least a short time.
Another myth is that the convenient store theft was the basis in part for Officer Wilson's actions. The Sergeant supervisor who was the on duty superior on 8/9/14 and who was the first officer to debrief Officer Wilson about the shooting, provided grand jury testimony which specifically indicates that Officer Wilson had no knowledge of the convenient store theft. (Volume V page 56). The following reflects what was discussed.
The prosecutor asked, “Did he talk about the stealing that occurred at Ferguson Market, that he was stopping these two to investigate that?”
The sergeant supervisor answered, “He said he did not have that call, that call I later found out was given to Officer xxxx.”
The prosecutor followed up, “Did he know about it, did he talk about the stealing?”
The sergeant supervisor responded, “He did not know anything about the stealing call
Another myth is that the convenient store theft was the basis in part for Officer Wilson's actions. The Sergeant supervisor who was the on duty superior on 8/9/14 and who was the first officer to debrief Officer Wilson about the shooting, provided grand jury testimony which specifically indicates that Officer Wilson had no knowledge of the convenient store theft. (Volume V page 56). The following reflects what was discussed.
The prosecutor asked, “Did he talk about the stealing that occurred at Ferguson Market, that he was stopping these two to investigate that?”
The sergeant supervisor answered, “He said he did not have that call, that call I later found out was given to Officer xxxx.”
The prosecutor followed up, “Did he know about it, did he talk about the stealing?”
The sergeant supervisor responded, “He did not know anything about the stealing call
2
Darren Wilson testified, under oath that he identified Michael Brown AFTER hearing about the convenience store robbery on his radio.
The issue was not whether the supervisor "gave" Officer Wilson the call, the call went out on the police radio and Officer Wilson heard the call, heard the description of the alleged robber, and then and only then did he approach Michael Brown, who then attacked an armed police officer and attempted to get Officer Wilson's gun.
Lying about Officer Wilson will not bring Michael Brown back. Nor will it create trust and respect or ease racial tensions.
The issue was not whether the supervisor "gave" Officer Wilson the call, the call went out on the police radio and Officer Wilson heard the call, heard the description of the alleged robber, and then and only then did he approach Michael Brown, who then attacked an armed police officer and attempted to get Officer Wilson's gun.
Lying about Officer Wilson will not bring Michael Brown back. Nor will it create trust and respect or ease racial tensions.
8
The sergeant did a debriefing with Officer Wilson within minutes after the shooting. If you review the transcript on the sergeant's testimony when he states that the officer did not know about the theft and that it had nothing to do with the shooting, he was NOT throwing his officer under the bus. He went on to state for the record that Officer Wilson was a good officer. He is a credible source in my book.
The myths started right after the shooting and have taken a life of their own.
Another myth is that there were no bullet wounds in the back area of Michael Brown's body. The famous Dr. Michael Baden’s trial testimony can be found in Vol. 23 of the grand jury transcript, pages 65-67. His words regarding item 83 in the autopsy report are: “And I think the next one ( back of right forearm entry wound) shows the controversial one…Well as to whether he was shot, people say from the back, no injuries to the back, but I interpret that as being from behind…This would support being shot from behind. It didn’t hit his back but from behind. I’m saying at the time of the shooting, the gun was pointed at the back of his arm, that’s all.”
I took the time to read all the eye and expert witness testimony for myself and so I am confident in what I say.
The myths started right after the shooting and have taken a life of their own.
Another myth is that there were no bullet wounds in the back area of Michael Brown's body. The famous Dr. Michael Baden’s trial testimony can be found in Vol. 23 of the grand jury transcript, pages 65-67. His words regarding item 83 in the autopsy report are: “And I think the next one ( back of right forearm entry wound) shows the controversial one…Well as to whether he was shot, people say from the back, no injuries to the back, but I interpret that as being from behind…This would support being shot from behind. It didn’t hit his back but from behind. I’m saying at the time of the shooting, the gun was pointed at the back of his arm, that’s all.”
I took the time to read all the eye and expert witness testimony for myself and so I am confident in what I say.
It is unfortunate that this article beings with the argument that the "hands up" rallying cry has been proven incorrect. In fact, the report confirms what thousands and thousands of demonstrators were protesting about. African Americans in Ferguson were routinely targeted by the police. Holder said right up front that his department gives a scathing report about the the conduct of the police department. He cited example after example in which statistics show that African Americans were repeatedly targeted by police while white citizens were not. He noted that such policies created a climate of fear making it easy to understand why a population would believe that Michael Brown was illegally gunned down by police. Holder went on to say that this problem is not just a Ferguson problem but a problem that extends across the nation. Had the journalists focused on this aspect of the report, their article might have been both more accurate and more helpful to the society as a whole. By the way, the solution to this problem is not just about hiring more minorities, though that might be a start. Nor is it that all cops are "bad. The solution starts at the top: Change the agenda of police departments. It's a small step in the process of trying to correct the racial injustices in this country.
13
The article starts with that premise because that's what the article is about. There are other articles that describe the problems & potential solutions to the questions you pose. In reality, both sides have their faults. The protesters and press are too eager to jump on a story that might not perfectly fit the movement (which is the point of this article), while the police advocates ignore glaring problems regarding police relations with African-Americans. Welcome to modern-day politics.
1
Think of it as a branding issue. Okay, your general goal might be more abstract and vague than this particular incident. But you're using a disproved hypothesis-turned-rebel-yell as the slogan for your movement. Of course people will be deterred by that disregard for reality, and they'd be justified in considering all adherents to such a fiction-devoted "movement" to be immature.
Meg I hate to break it to you but that has already been tried by the NYPD in 60s & 70s. The agenda of the NYPD was to react to crimes AFTER they were committed and, as a result, crime went to absurd levels,
When the approach under Guliani and Bratton, became to aggressively prevent crime by focusing on the areas where it were to most likely happen and the most likely perpetrators, then blacks and Hispanics became the focus since they commit almost all the violent crime in NYC. Racism or effective use of resources. Look at the crime figures since 1993 in NTC.
When the approach under Guliani and Bratton, became to aggressively prevent crime by focusing on the areas where it were to most likely happen and the most likely perpetrators, then blacks and Hispanics became the focus since they commit almost all the violent crime in NYC. Racism or effective use of resources. Look at the crime figures since 1993 in NTC.
1
Up front, it is certain that the police are 'guilty' and the officer (Wilson) who shot Brown was wrong. But, the black community needs to take some responsibility for a white mayor, an all-white council, and only token African-American officers on the police force.
There is such a thing as the vote. Ferguson is 67% African-American. Yet, only 16% of those eligible voters voted in the last election. Each protestor shoud have been asked, 'Did you vote in the last election?' and 'Will you vote in the next election?' There doen's seem to be any discouragement or threats to voting.
Brown's death? Atrocious! Police discrimination? Disgusting and wrong! Who will be punished? Uncertain. But, the VOTE is a remedy and it has been ignored by the majority of African-Americans in Ferguson. It's too much to say they brought it upon themselves, but, they certainly contributed to the situation. They can fix it!
There is such a thing as the vote. Ferguson is 67% African-American. Yet, only 16% of those eligible voters voted in the last election. Each protestor shoud have been asked, 'Did you vote in the last election?' and 'Will you vote in the next election?' There doen's seem to be any discouragement or threats to voting.
Brown's death? Atrocious! Police discrimination? Disgusting and wrong! Who will be punished? Uncertain. But, the VOTE is a remedy and it has been ignored by the majority of African-Americans in Ferguson. It's too much to say they brought it upon themselves, but, they certainly contributed to the situation. They can fix it!
1
Once again people just don't get it. The slogan, while it originated because of the events in Ferguson, is and was not limited to Ferguson. It is about the many incidents where, in some cases, the victim did not even have time to put up their hands.
Stop trying to whitewash the bigger picture and stop trying to ease your guilt. The fact that black people are more than likely to be the target of police unconstitutional stops lend credence to the rallying cry rather than the opposite. Obviously if you are more targeted you are more likely to have an incident when someone who may be reaching for a drivers license is shot under the pretext that he/she is reaching for a gun and oh the police officer felt threatened.
Stop trying to whitewash the bigger picture and stop trying to ease your guilt. The fact that black people are more than likely to be the target of police unconstitutional stops lend credence to the rallying cry rather than the opposite. Obviously if you are more targeted you are more likely to have an incident when someone who may be reaching for a drivers license is shot under the pretext that he/she is reaching for a gun and oh the police officer felt threatened.
1
And the death of Matthew Shepard will forever be seen by many as gay-bashing gone haywire notwithstanding that detailed, exhaustive reporting by Stephen Jimenez, a respected impartial reporter, establishes otherwise.
Why the continued belief in a lie? Well, because the manufactured "truth" FEELS right and serves a larger purpose. And when there are powerful constituencies and legitimate, long-term grievances supporting the continued propagation of the lie, then the lie becomes the "truth" no matter what.
Frankly, we see that every day on Fox News. Though there, of course, any rational person (i.e., any person not part of the Fox News constituency) would insist that the grievances Fox obsesses about not only lack legitimacy but are, themselves, part of a bigger lie.
Ahh, the human attachment to victimization combined with the human lack of empathy for the "other" makes for a toxic stew of fantasy-land hatred and distrust among competing tribes.
Why the continued belief in a lie? Well, because the manufactured "truth" FEELS right and serves a larger purpose. And when there are powerful constituencies and legitimate, long-term grievances supporting the continued propagation of the lie, then the lie becomes the "truth" no matter what.
Frankly, we see that every day on Fox News. Though there, of course, any rational person (i.e., any person not part of the Fox News constituency) would insist that the grievances Fox obsesses about not only lack legitimacy but are, themselves, part of a bigger lie.
Ahh, the human attachment to victimization combined with the human lack of empathy for the "other" makes for a toxic stew of fantasy-land hatred and distrust among competing tribes.
Don't facts matter? From NYTimes...
"Among the witnesses who told investigators that they had been nervous about corroborating Mr. Wilson’s account was a 31-year-old black woman who had been standing on her brother’s balcony at the time of the shooting. Her initial account to investigators, in which she said that she saw Mr. Wilson fire shots into Mr. Brown’s back as he lay dead on the street, was inconsistent with the autopsy findings.
When federal investigators challenged her, she admitted lying, explained to the F.B.I. that “you’ve gotta live the life to know it,” and said she had been afraid to contradict stories that Mr. Brown had been trying to surrender.
She then “admitted that she saw Mr. Brown running toward Mr. Wilson, prompting the police officer to yell ‘freeze,’ ” the report stated. It added that the woman said that “it appeared to her that Wilson’s life was in danger.” But when local authorities later tried to serve this witness a subpoena to appear before the grand jury, the report said, “she blockaded her door with a couch.”
"Among the witnesses who told investigators that they had been nervous about corroborating Mr. Wilson’s account was a 31-year-old black woman who had been standing on her brother’s balcony at the time of the shooting. Her initial account to investigators, in which she said that she saw Mr. Wilson fire shots into Mr. Brown’s back as he lay dead on the street, was inconsistent with the autopsy findings.
When federal investigators challenged her, she admitted lying, explained to the F.B.I. that “you’ve gotta live the life to know it,” and said she had been afraid to contradict stories that Mr. Brown had been trying to surrender.
She then “admitted that she saw Mr. Brown running toward Mr. Wilson, prompting the police officer to yell ‘freeze,’ ” the report stated. It added that the woman said that “it appeared to her that Wilson’s life was in danger.” But when local authorities later tried to serve this witness a subpoena to appear before the grand jury, the report said, “she blockaded her door with a couch.”
19
The system is broken and there is a breakdown of trust.Long before the Ferguson report there was the Kerner Report. Like a vintage re-run on Hulu we’ve viewed too many times, the story playing out before us today is painfully familiar.The 1960s were to have served as a wake up call to many Americans concerning police and race. Somehow we fell back to sleep.During the tumultuous 1960s urban police faced unprecedented tension and political battles. The findings of the Kerner Commission Report (formed by LBJ in 1968 to explain the riots that had erupted in our cities each summer since 1964) were meant to strengthen the relationship between minorities and police and made recommendations to improve the situation for the future..
Reacting to public outcry that too many minorities were not being treated by cops in a fair way and hoping to repair their tarnished image, in 1968 the NYPD began a publicity campaign to strengthen the relationship between minorities and police which included publishing a sugar-coated promotional comic book called “Your Friend the Policeman.” painting
the troubled NYPD with the patina of a superhero, champions of the oppressed with an unwavering commitment to truth justice and the American Way!
As the current relationship between police with their community frays, they might want to take a page from the promotional comic book. Take a look http://wp.me/p2qifI-2BZ
Reacting to public outcry that too many minorities were not being treated by cops in a fair way and hoping to repair their tarnished image, in 1968 the NYPD began a publicity campaign to strengthen the relationship between minorities and police which included publishing a sugar-coated promotional comic book called “Your Friend the Policeman.” painting
the troubled NYPD with the patina of a superhero, champions of the oppressed with an unwavering commitment to truth justice and the American Way!
As the current relationship between police with their community frays, they might want to take a page from the promotional comic book. Take a look http://wp.me/p2qifI-2BZ
Yes. "Let's let the standard be facts, evidence, the rules of law. Not hype, emotion and mob rule," said Sheriff Clarke.
Also, let's go back to focusing on blaming the victim because, well, gosh, accepting facts like systematic abuse of power just seems like such a burden. If only we could get the victims to just sit down and shut up, then all these needles shootings could be avoided.
Why on earth would The Times print such trivial article as this, when deeper more difficult issues regarding life in Ferguson need to be addressed?
Also, let's go back to focusing on blaming the victim because, well, gosh, accepting facts like systematic abuse of power just seems like such a burden. If only we could get the victims to just sit down and shut up, then all these needles shootings could be avoided.
Why on earth would The Times print such trivial article as this, when deeper more difficult issues regarding life in Ferguson need to be addressed?
The relevant facts about Ferguson are as follows:
1. A white police officer shot an unarmed black teenager who, at the time of the shooting, almost certainly posed no threat.
2. Some of what really happened on that day may never be known because the justice system has outrageously denied the case to be investigated by a competent court of justice.
3. The police officer is known to have lied to the Grand Jury. In particular he lied about the distance that Brown was away from the police car when he was killed.
4. The investigating prosecutor has admitted to having presented witnesses to the Grand Jury that he knew were lying, in particular the notorious witness no. 40 who claimed to corroborate Wilson's story when she in fact never was at the scene. This is an outrageous miscarriage of justice. If our justice system, including the DOJ, had even the slightest interest in finding the truth, the prosecutor would now be under criminal investigation and the Grand Jury decision would be set aside to make room for a proper judicial proceeding.
1. A white police officer shot an unarmed black teenager who, at the time of the shooting, almost certainly posed no threat.
2. Some of what really happened on that day may never be known because the justice system has outrageously denied the case to be investigated by a competent court of justice.
3. The police officer is known to have lied to the Grand Jury. In particular he lied about the distance that Brown was away from the police car when he was killed.
4. The investigating prosecutor has admitted to having presented witnesses to the Grand Jury that he knew were lying, in particular the notorious witness no. 40 who claimed to corroborate Wilson's story when she in fact never was at the scene. This is an outrageous miscarriage of justice. If our justice system, including the DOJ, had even the slightest interest in finding the truth, the prosecutor would now be under criminal investigation and the Grand Jury decision would be set aside to make room for a proper judicial proceeding.
Food for thought is a book called The Rise of the Warrior Cop, The Militarization of America's Police Forces by Randy Balko.
It's a multi-faceted challenge for all of us to read, think about the evolution of this situation & begin another "conversation" about how to change.
Let's not focus just on individual so-called "public safety officers", it's a bigger issue ('specially when certain federal agencies need to get rid of their used inventory from prior global interventions).
It's a multi-faceted challenge for all of us to read, think about the evolution of this situation & begin another "conversation" about how to change.
Let's not focus just on individual so-called "public safety officers", it's a bigger issue ('specially when certain federal agencies need to get rid of their used inventory from prior global interventions).
Reading some of the comments and it is really interesting that for quite a few folks the trashing of the American justice system by law enforcement and a corrupt justice system in Ferguson that was bankrolling itself through daily petty thievery of its own citizens is not what is considered outrageous, but the creation of the gesture of having ones hands up is The Lie. Straining gnats used to be considered ironic.
And as always for some, the messenger of The Media is to blame even though one's steady diet of junk news and zoo stories is ok if it never disturbs the rotted structures of carefully picked over race statistics and self pity that defines some folks. The fact is if you build a system that cannot be questioned, even if imperfectly by an imperfect press, we are agreeing to be stuck with what was going on in Ferguson. If you have power, you have responsibility to be fair.
And as always for some, the messenger of The Media is to blame even though one's steady diet of junk news and zoo stories is ok if it never disturbs the rotted structures of carefully picked over race statistics and self pity that defines some folks. The fact is if you build a system that cannot be questioned, even if imperfectly by an imperfect press, we are agreeing to be stuck with what was going on in Ferguson. If you have power, you have responsibility to be fair.
2
Good lord. It's not just that "hands up, don't shoot" has been "put to the test." The problem is that two investigations have found that the police officer did nothing wrong; he defended himself when an aggressive man attacked him and tried to sieze his gun. Period. But, according to the Times, Donna Brazile and various purported "civil rights leaders," the facts don't matter, because there are bigger issues. "Hands up" is now, well, kind of metaphorical, and still a slogan that inspired a "new civil rights movement" (!) -- just like "we shall overcome." Really?! In Mississippi in 1964, in Selma in 1965, it didn't matter what the facts were? It didn't matter whether Dr. King in Washington in 1963 was speaking the truth?
There's a reason why the face of this "new civil rights movement" is the odious charlatan Al Sharpton.
There's a reason why the face of this "new civil rights movement" is the odious charlatan Al Sharpton.
26
To exonerate an individual while in the same breath condemning a professional community, while not wholly implausible, does suggest agendas other than truth seeking have been in play.
11
Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. cast doubt on the “hands up” account...
"Cast doubt"...but what about the overwhelmingly negative context that is Ferguson's reality:
"In some cases, Ferguson officers punished people who had called the police for help, according to the DOJ report. Police came to the home of a woman who had called for a domestic disturbance, saw what they thought were signs that her boyfriend lived with her, accused her of violating her occupancy permit and arrested her. The woman said only she and her brother lived in the home.
In another interview the DOJ recorded, a man who came to his girlfriend’s side after she was badly injured in a car accident was arrested for five municipal code violations. Instead of tending to the bleeding woman, officers focused on the man for not wanting to leave his girlfriend. He was charged with resisting arrest, disorderly conduct, assault of an officer, obstructing government operations and failure to comply. They had his car towed and impounded".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/05/st-louis-county-police-race_n_6...
This trope is like the false equivalence that some put out there equating Clinton's lie about Lewinsky with Bush's lie about WMDs.
One is a personal moral failure whereas the other adds a dereliction of office by deceiving the public to wage war disastrously that has cost trillions of dollars and hundred of thousands of lives
"Cast doubt"...but what about the overwhelmingly negative context that is Ferguson's reality:
"In some cases, Ferguson officers punished people who had called the police for help, according to the DOJ report. Police came to the home of a woman who had called for a domestic disturbance, saw what they thought were signs that her boyfriend lived with her, accused her of violating her occupancy permit and arrested her. The woman said only she and her brother lived in the home.
In another interview the DOJ recorded, a man who came to his girlfriend’s side after she was badly injured in a car accident was arrested for five municipal code violations. Instead of tending to the bleeding woman, officers focused on the man for not wanting to leave his girlfriend. He was charged with resisting arrest, disorderly conduct, assault of an officer, obstructing government operations and failure to comply. They had his car towed and impounded".
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/05/st-louis-county-police-race_n_6...
This trope is like the false equivalence that some put out there equating Clinton's lie about Lewinsky with Bush's lie about WMDs.
One is a personal moral failure whereas the other adds a dereliction of office by deceiving the public to wage war disastrously that has cost trillions of dollars and hundred of thousands of lives
2
That is part of the second report. It does not excuse eyewitnesses saying that he had his hands up -- which he didn't
5
We've known for a while that Mike Brown wasn't a saint, and that there was a lot of doubt about the events of that day. Many commenters here seem to relish in the Holder's report that says it's likely that Brown didn't have his hands up.
But does that justify him being dead for his actions?
Also, have those crying foul read the second report about the Ferguson Police and justice system? About how corrupt they are, about how they use the system to generate revenue for the city? The residents of Ferguson have been telling us for a long time there were real problems in Ferguson but no one listened. Now that we know about the problems, do those who cry foul over the events of the day also cry foul about the Ferguson Police's abuse of the citizens?
How about this, the people of Ferguson were so desperate that it took fabricating events to actually make us aware of the real and much bigger problem, that the Police and Justice System worked together to fleece the public through harassment, search and arrest without just cause, essentially shaking down black citizens to generate revenue for the city. All while sharing racist memes about the President and First Lady.
So to those crowing about how wrong it was for this false story to spin out of control, how about putting your anger where the real problem is, the Ferguson Police and justice system. That is the root cause of the problems in Ferguson, not the story about "Hands Up, Don't Shoot".
But does that justify him being dead for his actions?
Also, have those crying foul read the second report about the Ferguson Police and justice system? About how corrupt they are, about how they use the system to generate revenue for the city? The residents of Ferguson have been telling us for a long time there were real problems in Ferguson but no one listened. Now that we know about the problems, do those who cry foul over the events of the day also cry foul about the Ferguson Police's abuse of the citizens?
How about this, the people of Ferguson were so desperate that it took fabricating events to actually make us aware of the real and much bigger problem, that the Police and Justice System worked together to fleece the public through harassment, search and arrest without just cause, essentially shaking down black citizens to generate revenue for the city. All while sharing racist memes about the President and First Lady.
So to those crowing about how wrong it was for this false story to spin out of control, how about putting your anger where the real problem is, the Ferguson Police and justice system. That is the root cause of the problems in Ferguson, not the story about "Hands Up, Don't Shoot".
24
Sadly, yes the facts support the shooting of Mr. Brown. Why else would he have had his hands on the officer's gun other than that he was trying to grab it?
10
Yes of course it does. He tried to take an officers gun, he robbed a store, he did not give up, he charged, thus he gets shot dead. I assume you would not be happy if he beat the officer to death instead. And being "angry" solves nothing and makes almost everything worse!!
3
The injustices towards African Americans have persisted since the 1600's when the nasty idea that Africans were born to be servants and persisted with attitudes about their fitness to participate equally as citizens until successfully challenged following World War II and the dismantling of imperialism around the world. The continuation of the racist convictions amongst many Americans despite the legal end to Jim Crow is a source of seething resentment and mistrust by those having to endure it. So the knee jerk acceptance of the misrepresentations by witnesses to the shooting of Michael Brown was not unexpected. The problem is in the end's justify the means mentality of those wanting justice in response to systematic oppression trivializing the life of a man upon whom they were automatically attributing all the past injustices exactly like the ancient Greeks used goats who were then sacrificed, scapegoats. That's not justice, that's the strategy for continuing conflict and animosity where nobody experiences justice.
1
Ferguson is predominately an African-American city.
1
Great, then lets have a large percentage of black candidates for the police force. Apply, get the job and make a difference.
C'mon lets get going, any takers?
C'mon lets get going, any takers?
1
Now where does Darren Wilson go to get his reputation back?
15
He can't and they will be suing him. If I was him I would have no money for you to get.
3
With a civil case very likely Officer Wilson will be able to speak out and all the forensic evidence seen and be judged on what actually happened, not the false and heinous lies that were heaped upon him by the media, anti-police groups, elected officials including the AG. Now it will be Michael Browns turn. He should never have been the poster child for police abuse. In fact, he was a felon who was in the process of assaulting a police officer after he committed a robbery. What an upstanding person he is in fact NOT.
The issues with the Ferguson PD should have been enough alone without the race baiters creating by lies a firestorm where there shouldn't have been any. Any police department that is looked upon as just a revenue generator needs reform, but the reform should start in the office of the mayor and city counsel. Even in NYC the mayor through the police commissioner gives the direction for the police.
There are major issues in police/community relations in this country that need to be addressed. And there are possibly better examples that are true and based upon fact not the Michael Brown, Hands Up Don't Shoot Lie.
While the police in Ferguson there will be reform for their policing style, lets see if the Al Sharptons and others in the media who spread the lies are also held accountable. Or will it be again two sets of standards. Well, they helped burn down some of Ferguson for a good cause so we need to over look the lies.
The issues with the Ferguson PD should have been enough alone without the race baiters creating by lies a firestorm where there shouldn't have been any. Any police department that is looked upon as just a revenue generator needs reform, but the reform should start in the office of the mayor and city counsel. Even in NYC the mayor through the police commissioner gives the direction for the police.
There are major issues in police/community relations in this country that need to be addressed. And there are possibly better examples that are true and based upon fact not the Michael Brown, Hands Up Don't Shoot Lie.
While the police in Ferguson there will be reform for their policing style, lets see if the Al Sharptons and others in the media who spread the lies are also held accountable. Or will it be again two sets of standards. Well, they helped burn down some of Ferguson for a good cause so we need to over look the lies.
11
And NYTimes was front and center with the rest of the MSM peddling this blatant falsehood to the public as "the truth". The entire mainstream media should be ashamed of themselves for fanning the flames of racial hostility with outright lies.
33
Mr. Wilson is indelibly harmed? At least he has life. But then what about Michael Brown? He is dead, stone cold dead. His life is of no consequence? Why don't we compare apples to apples? From what I've read about Mr. Wilson, he is doing quite well, even getting married. It's just a matter of few months when he has to lay low, move to another state and life start afresh with wife, kids and a new job with stellar recommendations from his superiors in Ferguson. As Michael Brown lays cold in his grave.
3
Yeah but Office Wilson broke no law, commtted no crime, he did not even exceed his training. Michael Brown was miscreant who pushed people around. He attacked a cop, tried to take his weapon, baked off and then charged him. He got what he deserved but Office Wilson did not deserve the treatment he got from the Federal Government and he was mistreated by them solely due to his race and that is a despicable activity for the Federal Government to indulge in. See the difference now.
8
Just what is your point? One person is dead and one is not. The whole domestic justice procedure was followed, but did not turn out to your liking? I suppose we could just eliminate Officer Wilson and make things even. Is that it?
7
What the report shows is that there is no proof that Officer Wilson's story should be disbelieved. Of course it is a tragedy that Mike Brown is dead, but that would not have happened if he had not confronted Officer Wilson multiple times.
3
Seems to me that the slogan, "hands up don't shoot", is still totally valid even though I believe Mr. Brown was the person at fault in that tragic interaction. Even though I nearly always thought he was at fault, the thing is, racism in police departments is very real and prevalent. Black people, and other minorities, get treated worse by law enforcement, across the board. It's more pronounced in Ferguson than in NYC, but it exists everywhere.
And it's a good slogan because it may help events. When a young black man is confronted by the police with guns drawn, if he holds up his hands and says this, they're going to have an awfully tough time justifying shooting him, and if they do and it's captured on video (which cop-cams will help with), it'll be absolutely clear that they were in the wrong.
There's still a lot of work to be done on getting police to treat people equally. But most police are good people, and if cops in general are treated with sarcasm rather than violence, I think they'll respond with better behavior.
And it's a good slogan because it may help events. When a young black man is confronted by the police with guns drawn, if he holds up his hands and says this, they're going to have an awfully tough time justifying shooting him, and if they do and it's captured on video (which cop-cams will help with), it'll be absolutely clear that they were in the wrong.
There's still a lot of work to be done on getting police to treat people equally. But most police are good people, and if cops in general are treated with sarcasm rather than violence, I think they'll respond with better behavior.
11
The crucial fact that no human being who is not a soldier in battle or a policeman in enforcing the laws upon a violently resisting individual are expected to proceed despite the risk of death or disabling injuries, so society gives them a lot of leeway in making life and death decisions. That means that it will always be the case that some incidents occur which turn out worse than they might. Police are not expected to participate in fair fights where the person being subject to arrest may walk away if they win the fight. They are expected to enforce the laws and to do so in a manner which allows them to do it every day, without being injured if at all possible.
The "hands up, don't shoot" slogan had purchase only because it conveyed the notion that the person shot was compliant and had communicated the willingness to follow instructions but was responded to with deadly force, in effect, cold blooded murder.
The "hands up, don't shoot" slogan had purchase only because it conveyed the notion that the person shot was compliant and had communicated the willingness to follow instructions but was responded to with deadly force, in effect, cold blooded murder.
10
Yup facts are not near as important as racial grievances.
5
Anyone who knows how thoroughly Federal prosecutors and investigators are when they go after someone also knows that if they conclude that the hands up story didn't happen the way it was portrayed in the media, then it is a fabrication. Otherwise the cop would have been charged, without question.
More broadly, we'll never solve the problem of injustice and bias until everyone acknowledges some cops, black and white, are racist, and this is unacceptable, and they should be fired and/or charged with crimes. The racist practices of Ferguson police are despicable and must change. That's one half of the story.
The other half of course is that there is such a thing as personal responsibility, and some citizens are thugs and criminals, black and white, and this is also unacceptable, and they should go to jail. This seems to be left out of the discussion most of the time.
Many it seems only want the "truth" that fits their narrative, not the whole truth. Nothing will change until the whole story is on the table and bad behavior from cops and citizens is deemed unacceptable. Personal accountability is just not talked about except as it relates to only one version of events. Citizens and cops should both be held accountable.
More broadly, we'll never solve the problem of injustice and bias until everyone acknowledges some cops, black and white, are racist, and this is unacceptable, and they should be fired and/or charged with crimes. The racist practices of Ferguson police are despicable and must change. That's one half of the story.
The other half of course is that there is such a thing as personal responsibility, and some citizens are thugs and criminals, black and white, and this is also unacceptable, and they should go to jail. This seems to be left out of the discussion most of the time.
Many it seems only want the "truth" that fits their narrative, not the whole truth. Nothing will change until the whole story is on the table and bad behavior from cops and citizens is deemed unacceptable. Personal accountability is just not talked about except as it relates to only one version of events. Citizens and cops should both be held accountable.
53
The police should embrace the "hands up, don't shoot" mantra: if your hands are up, we won't shoot.
14
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday.
Holder, start with yourself. Two dozen (maybe more) FBI Agents were sent down there by your office - a giant rush to judgement - instead of letting the investigation process run its course.
Then blame Al Sharpton.
Holder, start with yourself. Two dozen (maybe more) FBI Agents were sent down there by your office - a giant rush to judgement - instead of letting the investigation process run its course.
Then blame Al Sharpton.
30
The bigger issue here and in all of these left/liberal racial conflagrations is the inability of the national media and civil leaders/provacateurs/Holder/Obama to wait for facts before passing judgement. This isn't a 24 hour news cycle issue. It is a pre-determined judgement that is destroying peoples lives and the rule of law in this country.
It is just one more product of the destructive new morality that our liberal national media has allowed to be come the new normal in the U.S. in 2015!
It is just one more product of the destructive new morality that our liberal national media has allowed to be come the new normal in the U.S. in 2015!
3
Progressive bias against the police and professional agitators. In addition few actually admit that their child might do something wrong, they are all great law abiding children. NOT!!
3
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday.
-----------------------
I would suggest Mr. Holder look in a mirror.
-----------------------
I would suggest Mr. Holder look in a mirror.
26
If the media want to fix blame for this situation, they need to buy mirrors. Every account of the incident included the obligatory descriptions "WHITE police officer" and "UNARMED black teenager." Of course, "policeman" and "suspect" wouldn't have sold many newspapers. "If it bleeds, it leads; if it thinks, it stinks" is still the mantra of the American press.
What ever happened to "teaching moment?"
What ever happened to "teaching moment?"
31
If one reviews the recent fatal encounters with law enforcement, there is a common thread. It starts with failure to comply with a lawful order issued by the cop, like get on the sidewalk and out of the street. It escalates and becomes a "situation" that triggers arrest and failure to comply with arrest. Why anyone would go off and become belligerent toward an armed officer, is just beyond my understanding but unsurprisingly, can lead to fatal consequences.
The drill is, or should be, behave reasonably, comply with lawful orders, and submit cooperatively to arrest lest one makes the armed cop nervous.
Anything else is not just stupid, it could be fatal.
The drill is, or should be, behave reasonably, comply with lawful orders, and submit cooperatively to arrest lest one makes the armed cop nervous.
Anything else is not just stupid, it could be fatal.
4
Exactly, when the media says unarmed black teenager instead of 6'4" 290 lb 19 almost 20 year old bully - who really doesn't need to be armed because, as his family and friends admit freely, he used his size and presence to intimidate. Anybody ever get hit by a really big guy or have their head slammed to the ground or their neck, arm or leg broken - don't need a gun son. intent to harm is intent to harm and since we don't have crystal ball, gotta defend yourself. You knowingly attack a guy who has a gun, you better be prepared for the consequences.
6
I think African-Americans,particularly males, who live in a world that so much disrespects them, sometimes have a hair-trigger temper when confronted by white authority. People react irrationally under stress.
This may explain the initial incident. What it DOESN'T explain is how outsiders, INCLUDING THE MEDIA, so cynically jump on the blame bandwagon.
This may explain the initial incident. What it DOESN'T explain is how outsiders, INCLUDING THE MEDIA, so cynically jump on the blame bandwagon.
2
“To me, he had his hands up,” said Michael T. McPhearson, co-chairman of the Don’t Shoot Coalition in St. Louis. “It doesn’t change it for me.”
Well, since he is the Chairman of the Don't Shoot Coalition, there's probably no evidence that would change the facts "for him." As the saying goes, it's very hard to make a man understand something when he makes his livelihood by not understanding it.
Well, since he is the Chairman of the Don't Shoot Coalition, there's probably no evidence that would change the facts "for him." As the saying goes, it's very hard to make a man understand something when he makes his livelihood by not understanding it.
44
Typical progressive attitude, don't trust facts, twist science, and have their own alternative reality.
4
• “It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." ~ JOHN ADAMS
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." ~ JOHN ADAMS
15
What, exactly, did officer Wilson expect to do with Brown if Brown didn't turn around? Why did Brown turn around? I'll hazard a guess and suggest that Wilson did shot Brown and hit him in the arms and that's why he turned. As for Wilson fearing for his life...what? You ran after Brown. If you couldn't handle him, then it must have been your intention to shoot him....how else were you ever going to take him into custody on your own????
8
Rumple, you can guess all you want or you can go by the FACTS. Forensics show whether the bullets came from the front or the back. Funny thing about science, it deals with facts and after the facts were in and gone over, case closed. Conjecture on the other hand is wide open, you can surmise all you want.
Would have should have could have...all nice but again, facts is facts.
Would have should have could have...all nice but again, facts is facts.
2
Well he might have expected him to stop and obey orders and be arrested, that is what law abiding folks who don't want to be shot do. And enforcing the law is his job, not running from doing it. Now I would have waited for backup, but who knows in that case what anybody might do.
3
he expected him to surrender, not charge violently toward him. if he was so trigger happy, he would have shot him in the back, yet another lie propagated by 'witnesses'.
4
At a democrat who leans liberal, I was so disappointed by how the Michael Brown story was portrayed by my favorite sources for news; the New York Times and PBS NewsHour. As the story evolved from an innocent black teenager shot dead by a white police officer to something more complicated, the NYT’s and NewsHour continued its biased coverage. I no longer consider either a trustworthy source for news.
62
Having perused both DOJ reports, with particular attention to the investigation of Officer Wilson, it may very well be that HE is the only unbiased officer on the Ferguson PD!
The report on the FPD was baffling. It seems to be filled with unsubstantiated anecdotes--no SWORN affidavits!
There is no appendix containing the hard data! No explanation for HOW "disparate impact" is calculated and what numbers are significant. For example--how are multiple offenders treated in the calculation of "disparate impact"? How are non-residents used in the calculations? How is this disparate impact statistic affected by age, gender, employment status, education level, etc.?
Bottom line? it appears to me that this report was crafted to support a theory---and therefore is frighteningly similar to type of media coverage we were subjected to during this LOCAL event....and another LOCAL event...the George Zimmerman inquest.
The report on the FPD was baffling. It seems to be filled with unsubstantiated anecdotes--no SWORN affidavits!
There is no appendix containing the hard data! No explanation for HOW "disparate impact" is calculated and what numbers are significant. For example--how are multiple offenders treated in the calculation of "disparate impact"? How are non-residents used in the calculations? How is this disparate impact statistic affected by age, gender, employment status, education level, etc.?
Bottom line? it appears to me that this report was crafted to support a theory---and therefore is frighteningly similar to type of media coverage we were subjected to during this LOCAL event....and another LOCAL event...the George Zimmerman inquest.
16
"If you like your hands up don't shoot meme, you can keep your hands up don't shoot meme."
The fact that this lie made its way into the Obama WH, and onto the global stage (the 2015 Oscars, Grammys, etc.) is a testament to the liberal news media establishment, eager to latch on to any false narrative that garners ratings or internet clicks.
If the same media establishment we have today, that blew this lie out of proportion for months, had been in charge during Watergate, Richard Nixon would have finished his 2nd term.
New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, NBC, ABC, CBS you shame us all.
The fact that this lie made its way into the Obama WH, and onto the global stage (the 2015 Oscars, Grammys, etc.) is a testament to the liberal news media establishment, eager to latch on to any false narrative that garners ratings or internet clicks.
If the same media establishment we have today, that blew this lie out of proportion for months, had been in charge during Watergate, Richard Nixon would have finished his 2nd term.
New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, NBC, ABC, CBS you shame us all.
21
You don't seem to be able to tell the diff between having enough evidence to convict someone and being exonerated and totally innocent. A curious oversight for a "barrister".
Holding one's hands up is understood easily and it fits the situation- that is why it went viral whether it was a fact that could be proven in the last seconds of Brown's life or not.
Hold 2 things at once in your head.
Holding one's hands up is understood easily and it fits the situation- that is why it went viral whether it was a fact that could be proven in the last seconds of Brown's life or not.
Hold 2 things at once in your head.
1
"The scathing report, which cleared Officer Darren Wilson while criticizing Ferguson’s justice system, called into question the story behind the cry “Hands up, don’t shoot."?
While the Times should be commended for admitting the erroneous reporting, the phrasing of this CONTINUES a misleading emphasis. Shouldn't the focus here be on the phrase: "report, which cleared Officer Darren Wilson"? The "story" was false, and the "cry" the product of irresponsible agitators, like Sharpton, who basically took the media for a ride--or maybe were given a free ride by the irresponsible media.
I'm not defending racism or police abuse of innocent people, but in this case, the "story" got wildly overblown and conflated with blatant fiction. The media shares the responsibility for this and should frankly admit: "we blew it!" and THEN discuss the Federal report.
While the Times should be commended for admitting the erroneous reporting, the phrasing of this CONTINUES a misleading emphasis. Shouldn't the focus here be on the phrase: "report, which cleared Officer Darren Wilson"? The "story" was false, and the "cry" the product of irresponsible agitators, like Sharpton, who basically took the media for a ride--or maybe were given a free ride by the irresponsible media.
I'm not defending racism or police abuse of innocent people, but in this case, the "story" got wildly overblown and conflated with blatant fiction. The media shares the responsibility for this and should frankly admit: "we blew it!" and THEN discuss the Federal report.
31
Michael Brown's family is fighting with one another over who gets to sell Hands Up Don't Shoot and other victim merchandise. This completely undermines their credibility.
From the Washington Times:
"Family members of Michael Brown, the 18-year-old who was killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Mo., recently fought in a parking lot over merchandise related to his death.
Michael Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, has asked that her son not be used for business sales or political actions. Last Saturday she found her son’s grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, and his cousin, Tony Petty, selling t-shirts in the parking lot of Red’s BBQ, a few blocks from where Mr. Brown was shot, a local Fox affiliate reported Wednesday.
A witness said Ms. McSpadden jumped out of a car, accompanied by another unidentified person, and yelled “You can’t sell this [expletive].”
One of the relatives peddling the merchandise demanded that Ms. McSpadden show a document to prove that she had a patent.
Then, according to the police report, an unidentified person with Ms. McSpadden attacked Ms. Petty with a metal pipe or pole, striking her in the face. The attack resulted in a 911 call.
The witness said the assault suspect took the merchandise and about $1,400 in cash."
From the Washington Times:
"Family members of Michael Brown, the 18-year-old who was killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Mo., recently fought in a parking lot over merchandise related to his death.
Michael Brown’s mother, Lesley McSpadden, has asked that her son not be used for business sales or political actions. Last Saturday she found her son’s grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, and his cousin, Tony Petty, selling t-shirts in the parking lot of Red’s BBQ, a few blocks from where Mr. Brown was shot, a local Fox affiliate reported Wednesday.
A witness said Ms. McSpadden jumped out of a car, accompanied by another unidentified person, and yelled “You can’t sell this [expletive].”
One of the relatives peddling the merchandise demanded that Ms. McSpadden show a document to prove that she had a patent.
Then, according to the police report, an unidentified person with Ms. McSpadden attacked Ms. Petty with a metal pipe or pole, striking her in the face. The attack resulted in a 911 call.
The witness said the assault suspect took the merchandise and about $1,400 in cash."
14
Violent criminals use violence frequently, what else would you expect?
3
This says it all:
“To me, he had his hands up,” said Michael T. McPhearson, co-chairman of the Don’t Shoot Coalition in St. Louis. “It doesn’t change it for me.”
People don't care about the facts. They're creating a movement based on fiction.
“To me, he had his hands up,” said Michael T. McPhearson, co-chairman of the Don’t Shoot Coalition in St. Louis. “It doesn’t change it for me.”
People don't care about the facts. They're creating a movement based on fiction.
45
And the media keeps reporting that fiction (quoting ad nauseam those who wrote it) as though it were fact.
That's why so few people take the MSM seriously anymore.
That's why so few people take the MSM seriously anymore.
4
I'm a liberal, and my fellow liberal friends were perplexed when I refused to agree to the full approved liberal list of egregious racial violence committed recently by police.
- Brown
- Garner
- The 12 year old in Cleveland
In my mind, Garner was callously murdered on the Street of NYC by those paid to serve and protect. The 12-year old was another clear victim of race-tinged, overzealous policing. Brown to me was always a thug, despite the lovely praise he received in this and other media outlets as a terrific kind, gentle kid. All you had to do was look at the video from the convenience store.
One must not get swept up in narratives that emerge before the facts come to life.
- Brown
- Garner
- The 12 year old in Cleveland
In my mind, Garner was callously murdered on the Street of NYC by those paid to serve and protect. The 12-year old was another clear victim of race-tinged, overzealous policing. Brown to me was always a thug, despite the lovely praise he received in this and other media outlets as a terrific kind, gentle kid. All you had to do was look at the video from the convenience store.
One must not get swept up in narratives that emerge before the facts come to life.
26
Completely agree. Had the convenience store video been released immediately, might things have been different? Why wasn't it made available until days later?
I've come to believe a case of suicide-by-cop got conflated with the long-simmering, truly awful condition of unbelievably anachronistic racism in Ferguson.
How do you solve such a very real problem by brushing aside the truth?
I've come to believe a case of suicide-by-cop got conflated with the long-simmering, truly awful condition of unbelievably anachronistic racism in Ferguson.
How do you solve such a very real problem by brushing aside the truth?
Well .333 is great at hitting a baseball, less at reality.
Garner was a career criminal, out of shape, and accidentally killed. If he did not resist he would be alive today just as the many other times he was arrested before.
You can make a case for the child being over reaction, but in violent areas who really wants to take chances of getting shot.
Garner was a career criminal, out of shape, and accidentally killed. If he did not resist he would be alive today just as the many other times he was arrested before.
You can make a case for the child being over reaction, but in violent areas who really wants to take chances of getting shot.
The false narrative of "hands up, don't shoot" is the meticulous work of a mainstream, pro-Obama, liberal media which functions as a solution in search of a problem.
I am a Black man. During the course of my career I have defended White police officers wrongly accused of misconduct by those who merely seek profit today for wrongs of years long past.
It was embarrassing to watch the 2015 Oscars as John Stephens and Lonnie Lynn made a spectacle of my skin color on a world stage over something that actually did not happen, and did not take a lot of intuition to realize. What has to happen if America will ever address racial tensions in the future is to stop trying to gin up division using racial tensions of the past.
Now that's "common sense."
I am a Black man. During the course of my career I have defended White police officers wrongly accused of misconduct by those who merely seek profit today for wrongs of years long past.
It was embarrassing to watch the 2015 Oscars as John Stephens and Lonnie Lynn made a spectacle of my skin color on a world stage over something that actually did not happen, and did not take a lot of intuition to realize. What has to happen if America will ever address racial tensions in the future is to stop trying to gin up division using racial tensions of the past.
Now that's "common sense."
117
Thanks DC Barrister. If there were more people like you..and, I hope, me...we could work together to create and build trust among all the well meaning citizens. Baiting, victimhood and false narrative ultimately hurt all of America, but especially black America. That said, there is also a real need to help LE see and relinquish the biases they do have.
2
This is more than just about race. There are corrupt social systems in which the corruption is inherently tied to racial prejudice. You are very naive if you think anyone is "in search of a problem." The problem is still as plain as the nose on your face, whatever your anecdotal evidence indicates.
What's unfortunate is that every time something like this occurs people such as Al Sharpton show up to beat the drums. The media gives them their full attention and tensions escalate. In between the "media hype" in Ferguson I recall a black minister talking so eloquently about the need for calm, for reflection and patience and urging people to find peaceful ways to demonstrate. This minister would have made a great spokesman for black issues. But the media didn't want "fair, balanced and articulate", it wanted bias, slanted and sensational spokesmen. So every night, over and over, that's what we got. We will start to see change when the media caters to these responsible intelligent people rather than the likes of Sharpton. In black communities across America they live quiet lives. We should give them a platform to articulate these issues.
2
“Hands up Don't Shoot” was a lie from the beginning. I knew it was a lie the first time I saw that fool Johnson speaking to the media. Now the DOJ confirms that it was a lie. Of course the Bleeding Hearts and Mainstream media will never admit their mistake because this is incongruent with their worldview of victimization.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
62
“Let’s let the standard be facts, evidence, the rules of law,” said Sheriff Clarke, who is black. “Not hype, emotion and mob rule.”
The is the best comment I've heard about the Ferguson case.
The is the best comment I've heard about the Ferguson case.
86
There is a famous photo that the NYT ran for hours of a young black man confronted by gobs of military dressed police officers pointing their assault rifles at him. Remember? "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" quickly left the Michael Brown narrative and became a rallying cry for people of color - and others - all across America that finally had enough of our new found police state. And at some point, it also became an artistic expression of the contempt we all have for our deaf political system that let it build to this point. Alas, AG Holder misses the entire point, entrenched in specifics of whether or not this applied to the actual incident between an officer and a citizen. But I'm not surprised at Holder's myopic reading. After all, law enforcement is mostly responsible for civic unrest - how else do you get the worlds most shameful incarceration rate on the planet? It takes politicians, DA's, and cops to do that - not citizenry.
7
Politicians, DAs, and cops are the expression of the will of the people. If you think that they could get away with what they are getting away with without the (at least tacit) approval of citizens at-large, you are fooling yourself. Yeah, police work is very attractive to people who want to physically control other people, so you are going to get a higher-than-average number of bad apples in that barrel than in a "normal" job, but to say that they are the *cause* of the problem? Nah, it's on us. ALL of us.
3
Alas, AG Holder misses the entire point, entrenched in specifics of whether or not this applied to the actual incident between an officer and a citizen.
-----------------------------
So we should ignore the facts and accept your clearly biased world view instead.
-----------------------------
So we should ignore the facts and accept your clearly biased world view instead.
3
Holder misses the point? The Attorney General has a specific job to do here: to investigate what happened in this incident and report on it - accurately and specifically. It is not his job to support a civil rights meme ("Hands up, don't shoot).
How dare the Attorney General be "entrenched in specifics". How dare his report on the Michael Brown shooting look specifically at the "actual incident".
Think what you want about racism in America, but your criticisms of Holder with respect to the report on the Michael Brown incident are laughable.
How dare the Attorney General be "entrenched in specifics". How dare his report on the Michael Brown shooting look specifically at the "actual incident".
Think what you want about racism in America, but your criticisms of Holder with respect to the report on the Michael Brown incident are laughable.
4
Patterns of police misconduct are routinely overlooked and ignored because those who suffer from it are disproportionately engaged in illegal behavior. But the Constitution was thoughtfully and meticulously crafted to protect the rights of all. Every citizen should be willing to drop the emotional satisfaction that comes from pontificating and finger-pointing and demand that we honor and preserve the standards on which this nation was founded.
14
People who think this is a racial issue should come to my town in southeast Washington State. It's all about being poor and/or mentally ill. Everyone has seen the video of the assassination of the Pasco rock thrower. But, in addition, the police here roll out their SWAT team and surplus military tank at the drop of a hat. As a result, our police here killed more people last year per capita than NY City, LA County, Las Vegas, etc. etc. etc. the police here are judge, jury and executioner whether you are black, white or Hispanic.
3
The decision by the Justice Department not to pursue civil rights violations against Officer Wilson was the right one. The reason to use the death of Michael Brown by Mr. Wilson as a 'Hands Up' rallying cry over police brutality was the wrong reason and cause when you consider who Michael Brown was. Like most people I was upset by the shooting of this teenager by a white police officer until I saw the store video. The stealing of some items in the store was bad enough, but the brushing off of the store man when he tried to stop Mr. Brown from leaving the store with them and the consequent turning around and facing the store man when he tried to stop him again, showed me a big, dangerous teenager who would have done more than shove the store man had he persisted. That the store man didn't and retreated, saved him his life. Michael Brown then took that attitude and rage out of the store and confronted Officer Wilson with it and it cost him his life.
64
If the NYT publishes an article exonerating Officer Wilson, he really must not have done anything. I'm waiting for Charles Blow to publish a fair assessment of the Ferguson shooting, if he's able. The problem is that once a narrative is established, all relevant facts become irrelevant. Facts don't matter. The narrative lives on. That's why this had a life of its own and carried on for far too long.
54
The narrative is that there are gross inequities in the justice system, regardless of how well behaved, or not, Michael Brown was. This is borne out in the report released this week, and is borne out in police departments throughout the country.
Do we know why Officer Wilson shot Brown 6 times, that 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 bullets were not enough to stop him?
Do we know why Officer Wilson shot Brown 6 times, that 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 bullets were not enough to stop him?
3
We're not talking about the Ferguson Police Department in general. We're talking about one specific police officer, Darren Wilson and one specific suspect and that would be Michael Brown for an incident hat occurred at a particular moment in time and if you can't wrap your head around the facts of the case, then God help us all.
2
Unfortunately each time there is a case like this, where local accounts turn out to be refuted under scrutiny, the credibility of poor minority witnesses and community activists is undermined. It isn't good in the long term for justice as these cases are routinely dredged up.
But what is the reason for these exaggerated or even fabricated accounts? I would argue that it is based upon a long standing lack of trust by Black and other minority and poor populations of the police and other institutions. The natural reaction to persistent injustice Is to try to re-balance the power.
It is not right to lie, and it is even counter-productive. But I think it is also understandable that this occurs in a setting of persistent injustice.
But what is the reason for these exaggerated or even fabricated accounts? I would argue that it is based upon a long standing lack of trust by Black and other minority and poor populations of the police and other institutions. The natural reaction to persistent injustice Is to try to re-balance the power.
It is not right to lie, and it is even counter-productive. But I think it is also understandable that this occurs in a setting of persistent injustice.
8
Would these lies be a "lazy mental short-cut" or just the black racism that goes completely unreported and isn't discussed?
And when these lies incite violence, are used as an excuse for looting, inflame a nation, we just need to understand?
And when these lies incite violence, are used as an excuse for looting, inflame a nation, we just need to understand?
2
Huh? This proves how often the cries of bias and prejudice are the evil, self interested and mean spirited falsities of those who have dedicated themselves to hatred and victimhood. How come no one is going after the lying little accomplice of Michael Brown who made the whole thing up..in order to shake down the rest of us. Community organizers, race baiters like Sharpton, et al. create these falsities to advance their personal stature....meanwhile, the decent black community buys into the false narrative.
3
Excuses, excuses, are all you offer. You could have stopped at "wrong" and "counter-productive".
2
For people looking for ways of achieving their objectives by any means necessary, using an unconfirmed version of events which draws the right kind of attention seems to be irresistible even if it results in a whole new set of injustices. That is something that will happen as long as human beings exist. It's a form of deceit which the perpetrators consider completely justified by the importance of their achieving their great ends, whatever that might be. It always is based upon the idea that the people who are harmed are sacrifices for a greater good.
22
The most important finding in this investigation is that the bulky governments of Ferguson and other small communities are supported not by legitimate revenue sources such as retail sales or business taxes, but on the backs of citizens who are ticketed and fined on the flimsiest of excuses. In addition, these charges are magnified and fines are exacerbated just as unfairly as a usurious payday loan. People are jailed for inability to pay fines and therefore more charges and debt accumulate. The unfair treatment is committed mostly against the black population. If there were ever a case for reparations, this is it. The city should be fined and the fines should be applied to all of the bogus actions brought about against the unfairly treated minority population.
14
I live it a community of largely white people, Benton County, Washington. Yet, NPR recently reported that we are one of the worst county's in the country for incarcerating people who can't pay fines.
3
They folks in a lather about the "Hands Up" going viral cannot let the incidents you have mentioned into their story. The fact that the corruption was bone deep in this town is filtered out.
1
Shocked, shocked i say.
The rush to judgment by the likes of Sharpton and others turned out to be less than advertised? Knock me over with a feather.
On a more serious note, the civil rights activists wouldn't be so low in the credibility measurement if they did not pick their national showcases so unwisely. Their actions show a belief that all cops are guilty of racism until proven innocent. This type of group think results in errors in judgment that can lead to embarrassing outcomes.
The rush to judgment by the likes of Sharpton and others turned out to be less than advertised? Knock me over with a feather.
On a more serious note, the civil rights activists wouldn't be so low in the credibility measurement if they did not pick their national showcases so unwisely. Their actions show a belief that all cops are guilty of racism until proven innocent. This type of group think results in errors in judgment that can lead to embarrassing outcomes.
60
It would simply be a matter of switching the t-shirts to say "Hands Up! Don't Ticket!" - as that seems to be the area where the Ferguson Police Department was abusing its power.
Store clerks, on the other hand, to commemorate Michael Brown's bullying would wear t-shirts saying "Hands Up! Don't Push!"
The media could order t-shirts saying "Hands Up! Don't Check!"
Store clerks, on the other hand, to commemorate Michael Brown's bullying would wear t-shirts saying "Hands Up! Don't Push!"
The media could order t-shirts saying "Hands Up! Don't Check!"
15
A reporter for the Washington Post commented on the two reports yesterday during MSNBC's Morning Joe. Essentially, his remarks were "the Wilson report casts some doubt on what has been reported but let's talk about the report on the police department". It is convenient that the media can sidestep its role in this mess by changing the subject. Actually, too convenient, since it also gives DOJ the same off ramp.
29
Excuse me, but no one was more responsible for that phrase catching fire than the Times and its fellow media disciples -- and, of course, Eric Holder.
38
Let's compare the "hands up" meme to a similarly non-factual justification for action: the alleged Gulf of Tonkin incident, wherein North Vietnamese gunboats allegedly attacked a far superior US warship> Outraged American Congressmen then gave the president authorization to escalate American involvement in Vietnam, eventually causing the deaths of 53,000 US troops and millions of Vietnamese.
But wait - what about the "WMD" lie that created a similar outcome in Iraq? We continue to suffer from that one.
At least the "hands up - don't shoot!" meme is based on the reality of an unfair system and sheds light on a problem that is desperately in need of a solution. So, we can ignore the problem because perhaps Mr. Brown didn't have his hands up after all, or we can look beyond the specifics of this incident and work on correcting the injustice that created the outrage.
I choose the latter.
But wait - what about the "WMD" lie that created a similar outcome in Iraq? We continue to suffer from that one.
At least the "hands up - don't shoot!" meme is based on the reality of an unfair system and sheds light on a problem that is desperately in need of a solution. So, we can ignore the problem because perhaps Mr. Brown didn't have his hands up after all, or we can look beyond the specifics of this incident and work on correcting the injustice that created the outrage.
I choose the latter.
12
So only lies on the your side of the partisan divide are meaningless. You my friend are part of the problem, maybe the largest part.
2
Where is the justice for officer Daren Wilson? When Does Al Sharpton, the Black Caucus in Congress and Eric Holder apologize to the officer for destroying his life ?
48
Blame the media for exacerbating the attacks on Wilson, and not Sharpton, the Black Caucus or especially Eric Holder, whose justice department is attempting to whitewash Wilson's actions. Seems like you are on a vendetta to blame politicians you don't like for what happened in the aftermath of the Ferguson shooting. Apparently, you also missed the DOJ's report on the racial bias in the Ferguson police department.
2
The Attorney General never said Wilson did anything. The investigation by his department was full and fair. Holder said yesterday he is troubled by how quickly a false narrative took hold.
1
As a lifelong news person, I cringed at the reporting of this incident. Initial reports, including from Mr. Brown's friend and companion, were that the officer confronted the two (rightly or wrongly) and that Mr. Brown lunged into the car. There were no other witnesses (one "witness" initially said he was in his apartment, heard the shots and came out; his story quickly morphed into seeing the officer shoot Mr. Brown). As the story grew, we had dozens of "witnesses" quoted by the NYT and others, even though obviously lying. Similarly, as Gene says below, we are reporting meaningless justice department statistics as gospel. Without knowing ratio of arrests to actual commission of offenses (not merely arrests to population breakdown) we prove nothing. In my state, North Carolina, it's routinely argued that the death penalty discriminates against African-Americans because they make up 20% of the population, but are more than 50% of death row. But federal Bureau of Crime Statistics show African-Americans commit about 70% of the murders, the only capital offense. If the law were applied equally, there would be more on death row, not fewer. The media has an obligation to be unflinchingly fair and accurate. That does not mean reporting, as in the case of Ferguson, that the moon is green cheese just because a partisan says so.
44
Where there are problems like racial injustices, there needs to be attention drawn to it in order to draw the people and elected officials into consideration of it and how to fix it. The emotional power of systematic injustices naturally leads to outrage about incidents in which it has effected great wrongs, like killings of people with indifference and without reasonable causes. That aside the attitude towards the officer in this incident lead to his being demonized and losing his job simply not for what he did but for what was thought he did. It is this kind of tit for tat injustice that creates newsworthy events and opportunities for advocates to raise issues to dominate the mass media but it results in individuals being denied the most basic rights which we all expect.
2
So many commenters are invested in believing that the whole Ferguson controversy was one big lie. Despite mountains of evidence that the Ferguson Police Dept. targeted black residents for trumped up citations for decades as a way to boost revenue, commenters remain determined to deny that racial bias played a role in Wilson's killing of Brown. Why the importance of denying the role of race? Because many of the white commenters feel far more uncomfortable admitting that large groups of whites in this country are still very much about the business of subjecting blacks to the same racist abuses that so many wish to pretend have been consigned to history.
The DOJ report does not clear Wilson of having shot Brown with his hands raised. the stands required for a federal civil rights conviction are very high. The question of whether Brown's hands were raised is unanswered, even if Wilson was motivated by fear, gross incompetence and bias as opposed to seething racial hatred. Given the pervasive racism of the Ferguson Police Dept., it begs beliefs that any officer would not be affected by it. Yet that is the claim to which so many commenters cling. Very sad.
The DOJ report does not clear Wilson of having shot Brown with his hands raised. the stands required for a federal civil rights conviction are very high. The question of whether Brown's hands were raised is unanswered, even if Wilson was motivated by fear, gross incompetence and bias as opposed to seething racial hatred. Given the pervasive racism of the Ferguson Police Dept., it begs beliefs that any officer would not be affected by it. Yet that is the claim to which so many commenters cling. Very sad.
13
The DOJ report says the claims that Michael Brown had his hands up and was surrendering to Officer Wilson are untrue--unsupported by the facts on the ground, and examinations of bullet wounds and forensics reports.
It didn't happen.
Your Sharpton-esque refusal to accept or exist in reality scares me.
It didn't happen.
Your Sharpton-esque refusal to accept or exist in reality scares me.
5
Read the report.
4
It always has to be something for the racial grievance mongers to hang their hat on. Any study that purports to find racial discrimination solely by the amount of each race involved and then goes no further is bogus and harmful on the face of it. It is as ridiculous as me claiming the NBA is racist based on the racial percentage of the players.
3
Good reporting. Holder's politicized DOJ desperately tried to prove the Grand Jury wrong and find some wrongdoing on Officer Wilson's part. Their efforts failed to get over even the very low bar they set for themselves. So instead they tried to muddy the waters by reporting on racist traffic stops. Good for the Times to publish this article. "Hands Up Don't Shoot" - nothing but a malicious lie used to incite violence and inflame racial tensions by the usual race hustlers.
30
Should we hold our collective breats on an apology for Darren Wilson? Obviously not, facts do not deter those who propagate a certain narrative
21
I am so sick of all this. You mean the acting appropriately in the face of a young thug- Darren Wilson - that police officer? I have an idea (taken from the movie Time to Kill - very loosely ) - instead of White Cop which makes you racist from the start- as in, what does his race matter - and black teen - again, what does it matter, lets call it what it was. A case of very bad judgement from a 6'4" 290 lb thug (if 9 months later would not have been a "teen" who used his size to intimidate ( those were the words from his friends and family - though they said he was a nice guy, just a bully) who decided to try his luck beating an armed police officer and It didn't end well. You want to mourn a thug - great, buts lets leave race out of this story and see how the same scene plays out.
Oh, by the way, all the "witnesses" for the defense either lied or "changed their stories". You want to start a movement - no question there are inequities - thats fine, you want to base it on a lie - or a pack of lies - thats not fine.
In Tawana Brawleys words - "I won't be manipsmated"- and neither should you.
Oh, by the way, all the "witnesses" for the defense either lied or "changed their stories". You want to start a movement - no question there are inequities - thats fine, you want to base it on a lie - or a pack of lies - thats not fine.
In Tawana Brawleys words - "I won't be manipsmated"- and neither should you.
19
We are so polarized and see things through based on our preconceived notions. The reports seem to make it clear, the police officer was not at fault, even though many so called activists and the press wanted him to be guilty. Articles still talk about an unarmed, black, teenage, conveniently forgetting the robbery of an unarmed, elderly, immigrant, shopkeeper and other facts. As to the police department in Ferguson, there is little doubt things need to change. They are a largely white force in a majority black town that the city leaders use as a revenue source, collecting fines from the black community to fund the town.
52
Okay, maybe you can explain how officer Wilson planed to take Brown into custody by himself. Unless Brown fully cooperated...which should have seemed very unlikely, what was Wilson's plan other than to use his gun?
3
No one has forgotten Brown's alleged petty theft and minor assault (shoving) in that convenience store, this is not mentioned in connection with his death because it has nothing to do with how or why he was killed. As far as grand jury's and DA/Prosecutors track record in finding grounds to indict police officers for anything, check the track record, you will find indictments extremely rare.
People of conscience do not want an innocent person found guilty. Our judicial system was developed upon a jurisprudence to not find one innocent with guilt rather than guilty who is innocent and yet so many innocent people are rotting in prison.
I am heartened that in your final statement you regain your reason and rightfully acknowledge that you have little doubt that change IS in fact needed in Ferguson.
People of conscience do not want an innocent person found guilty. Our judicial system was developed upon a jurisprudence to not find one innocent with guilt rather than guilty who is innocent and yet so many innocent people are rotting in prison.
I am heartened that in your final statement you regain your reason and rightfully acknowledge that you have little doubt that change IS in fact needed in Ferguson.
2
It would seem that the issue from the get go should have been a study of how a community could have been so inflamed by policing prejudice that one product of these policies, a young man with perhaps poor judgement, should wind up dead.
3
Of course, now conservative will focus on four NEW words (the first four that got them riled were in the ACA that is part of the Burwell suit) to fuel their sense of victimization.
They will make the issue one of exactly where the man's hands were. Were they up, down, mid body?
Since his hands were not exactly "up," as the protestors are saying, then, in conservative logic, the police did no wrong in their use of force, since the DOJ report claims the protestors were not being factual in their chants.
It is central to conservative tactics to go after the messenger.
They will make the issue one of exactly where the man's hands were. Were they up, down, mid body?
Since his hands were not exactly "up," as the protestors are saying, then, in conservative logic, the police did no wrong in their use of force, since the DOJ report claims the protestors were not being factual in their chants.
It is central to conservative tactics to go after the messenger.
7
The issue is not nearly as subtle as you depict. One man attacked a police officer and then charged him.
1
The people getting hung up on the relationship between the actual events in Ferguson and the subsequent "Hands Up, Don't Shoot" rallying cry are the same people who reply 'not all men' when you point out sexism. In other words, they want you to shut up and go away because it is not their problem and they don't care if it is yours.
6
When is the black caucus going to "man-up" and give Darren Wilson the apology and award for service and bravery that he deserves?
17
Notwithstanding the deliberate targeting of blacks for committing petty crimes as a means to raise revenue, the report puts to bed once and for all the fallacy of "hands up don't shoot" and the immediate vilification of Darren Wilson from local community leaders, the black community, Al Sharpton, the NY Times, AG Holder and resident Obama, each of whom owe Darren Wilson an apology. As to police hiring practices in Ferguson and small communities throughout the country, it must be placed at the state level through a competitive test in order to avoid practices that are based on who you know and your connections rather than what you know
18
I can't find anywhere that Holder prejudged Wilson's case. Even the biased Hans von Spakowski, who turned up high in my google search, only says that he wished Obama and Holder had said more after the Grand Jury. But Holder wasn't in a position to pre-judge his own department's investigation at that point.
The FBI report is that much stronger because Holder did hold back from taking a side months earlier. It's tougher for those who would continue to impute Wilson to deny that Holder and his department acted fairly in reaching the decision they did. I think the Times is deserving of more criticism than Holder or Obama.
The FBI report is that much stronger because Holder did hold back from taking a side months earlier. It's tougher for those who would continue to impute Wilson to deny that Holder and his department acted fairly in reaching the decision they did. I think the Times is deserving of more criticism than Holder or Obama.
“If I had to do it again, I would proceed in exactly the same way,” he said. “I made clear in my remarks that ‘hands up, don’t shoot’ is a rallying cry for people all across America who want to see the constitutional promise of equal protection under the law brought to life.”
In other words: Don't confuse me with facts - my mind is already made up.
In other words: Don't confuse me with facts - my mind is already made up.
42
I've always associated "Hands up, don't shoot" with the Ferguson protestors speaking to police who were over reacting to the demonstrations following Mike Brown's death. That is to say I've never had the impression that he spoke the words, rather that is was said by the early protestors in an attempt not to be shot themselves. So I believe it is still a valid rallying cry, although it's origins have been attributed to the wrong source.
5
Yes the Ferguson police may be a little over zealous, but a report on crime stated, "Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife."
So while it is not very nice to say it, but it is the reality that when the town of Ferguson with almost 70% black, combined with this population that are the likeliest to commit violent crime, the police may have skewed their efforts to members of the black race. Again, not nice to say, but this happens to be the way it is in the United States, and in Missouri
When Blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-Blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife."
So while it is not very nice to say it, but it is the reality that when the town of Ferguson with almost 70% black, combined with this population that are the likeliest to commit violent crime, the police may have skewed their efforts to members of the black race. Again, not nice to say, but this happens to be the way it is in the United States, and in Missouri
31
Why not say you're quoting "The Color of Crime", by the New Century Foundation?
I'll quote Source Watch.org:
"The New Century Foundation, founded November 1990 and based in Oakton, Virginia, is a "self-styled think tank that publishes a monthly journal and a Web site called American Renaissance. Also hosts biannual conferences. The Foundation promotes pseudoscientific and questionably researched and argued studies to validate the superiority of whites."[1]"
I'll quote Source Watch.org:
"The New Century Foundation, founded November 1990 and based in Oakton, Virginia, is a "self-styled think tank that publishes a monthly journal and a Web site called American Renaissance. Also hosts biannual conferences. The Foundation promotes pseudoscientific and questionably researched and argued studies to validate the superiority of whites."[1]"
1
In completely missing the point of that slogan and gesture, this article borders on "white" wash.
The tone suggests the same kind of "he got what he deserved" attitude that provided the shield for these kinds of racially charged murders to occur in the first place.
The point of this article is specious at best. At worst, it seems like a thin straw man defense for murder.
The tone suggests the same kind of "he got what he deserved" attitude that provided the shield for these kinds of racially charged murders to occur in the first place.
The point of this article is specious at best. At worst, it seems like a thin straw man defense for murder.
13
In other words, facts don't matter.
4
Amen! It's a veiled defense of bigotry... This society sure is a dangerous one for folks of color.
Very much worth repeating again and again...
“Let’s let the standard be facts, evidence, the rules of law,” said Sheriff Clarke, who is black. “Not hype, emotion and mob rule.”
Amen.
“Let’s let the standard be facts, evidence, the rules of law,” said Sheriff Clarke, who is black. “Not hype, emotion and mob rule.”
Amen.
54
Unfortunately, Ferguson, along with many other communities in this country, are train wrecks ready to happen. Governing officials turn a blind eye to policies and procedures that enforce institutional racism, and when it blows up, they look blankly at TV screens with that look of, "what happened." We know what happened, it's all in the numbers of this report, which over the years, appears to have escaped the notice of police chiefs, mayors, and governors.
30
People who speed get stopped and ticketed. Not just in Ferguson, MO but everywhere. Municipalities and local governments are funded more and more by the revenues of such fines. You don't hear white people in black-dominated Atlanta whining about it or playing the race card.
1
The Ferguson PD was the gun and Police Officer was the bullet. The DOJ reports that Ferguson minority residents were frequently ticketed and fined for walking incidents. Remember that this started as a walking issue. Officer Wilson during his testimony testified that he did not like to carry a Taser gun as it was cumbersome. He was allowed this option by the Ferguson PD.
Officer Wilson had been wearing his duty belt at the time of the shooting. The duty belt is supposed to include a Taser gun and if Michael Brown was within 15 feet of Officer Wilson, this could have been an option for him to use. During his grand jury testimony (Vol. 5, starting on page 196), he testifies that he elected to not carry his Taser. Just so the reader knows, the police did not confiscate his duty belt until over a month later as it had been stored in Officer Wilson’s trunk before someone decided that it might be important. As per Vol. 24 of the grand jury transcript, page 84, there was fingerprint testing done on the duty belt which came back negative for Michael Brown’s fingerprints.
Officer Wilson had been wearing his duty belt at the time of the shooting. The duty belt is supposed to include a Taser gun and if Michael Brown was within 15 feet of Officer Wilson, this could have been an option for him to use. During his grand jury testimony (Vol. 5, starting on page 196), he testifies that he elected to not carry his Taser. Just so the reader knows, the police did not confiscate his duty belt until over a month later as it had been stored in Officer Wilson’s trunk before someone decided that it might be important. As per Vol. 24 of the grand jury transcript, page 84, there was fingerprint testing done on the duty belt which came back negative for Michael Brown’s fingerprints.
1
When a man with a gun kills an unarmed man there will be consequences. As for truths, the one sure truth is that someone lies dead and in many cases no one is sure how exactly that happened. Police are the price we pay to have some semblance of normal life. In the process we have given them the personal and legal right to kill another human. After a police killing everyone, except the dead, are given lots of time to get their story together. The truth does not will out, only the story. The story only fails when there are credible, honest witnesses. Then the need is to discredit the witnesses. The dead just get buried. Truth? Justice? Only words on paper in a country where nothing is ever anybodies fault. But, in fact, our lack of fairness and justice is everyone's fault and if we continue to live with it can only get worse until we all are lying dead in the street in the greatest, most wonderful nation that was, is or ever will be, under some god no less.
3
I think that this story mischaracterizes the conclusions about the shooting of Michael Brown. It suggests that the justice department vindicates Darren Wilson's actions when in reality it concludes that there is not enough evidence to charge him with violation of Mr. Brown's civil rights. Attorney General Holder is already on record as saying that he believes the standard for these convictions are too high. Indeed, even if confronted with substantial evidence that Mr. Brown was trying to surender when shot (as common sense would lead any rational person to believe), the justice department would have to show that Wilson was aware of this and shot him our of spite and not fear despite that fear being unwarranted.
The justice department did not clear Mr. Wilson. They only decided not to bring further charges. It is now up to civil charges and hopefull, we will finally get a full public airing of the facts that lead up to the killing of Michael Brown.
The justice department did not clear Mr. Wilson. They only decided not to bring further charges. It is now up to civil charges and hopefull, we will finally get a full public airing of the facts that lead up to the killing of Michael Brown.
6
common sense and rational are not characteristics of the criminally minded.
1
Holder describes the Ferguson police department as: “a highly toxic environment, defined by mistrust and resentment, stoked by years of bad feelings, and spurred by illegal and misguided practices.”
I would use that exact same statement to describe Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the Congressional Black Caucus.
I would use that exact same statement to describe Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the Congressional Black Caucus.
37
As always, there has been a lot of confirmation bias on both sides. Many assumed without waiting for the evidence that Officer Wilson was at fault, and some of the witnesses have admitted that they lied, an odious crime. At the same time, I see some white people denying that there is a pattern of discriminatory policing in Ferguson and elsewhere, and not understanding as a result why so many black Americans are deeply skeptical of the criminal justice system.
I like to think that people will learn from this, and from similar media-fueled witch hunts, to wait until the facts are in before jumping to conclusions. And I hope that the nation's municipalities and police departments will come to understand that the most effective policing is fair and honest policing, while the African-American community will ask itself why, even after accounting for income, so many young African-Americans commit violent acts and street crimes.
Finally, I hope society as a whole asks why we don't give all Americans jobs, since the best and perhaps only way to create middle class values is to give people an opportunity to work productively.
I like to think that people will learn from this, and from similar media-fueled witch hunts, to wait until the facts are in before jumping to conclusions. And I hope that the nation's municipalities and police departments will come to understand that the most effective policing is fair and honest policing, while the African-American community will ask itself why, even after accounting for income, so many young African-Americans commit violent acts and street crimes.
Finally, I hope society as a whole asks why we don't give all Americans jobs, since the best and perhaps only way to create middle class values is to give people an opportunity to work productively.
11
The only issue I see in this post is the idea that black communities don't already fight to lower crimes committed by young blacks. There are many factors at play and black Americans have been fighting against them all for quite some time. It's an arduous process, with many obstacles, which includes questioning things like the mindset within some of these communities, as well as breaking many chains of behavior that have been instilled in some over the years. However, a police force hell-bent on keeping the poor disenfranchised so that they can collect payouts makes that process even slower, and smacks of the sort of systematic racism and class-ism that keeps progress from happening. But if we all pay attention, we can see that, even with such obstacles, black Americans have been making progress for decades and black crime rates have fallen.
1
Great points Mr. Hill, and there's some hope for getting closer to the goal of jobs all around. Unemployment just dropped to 5.5% it appears. So long as Republicans don't stay in power long, things will likely improve. And with jobs and hope for the future, people's lives will improve a lot, and violent interactions with the police should decrease. I think part of why Mr. Brown could be so foolishly violent is that he felt like he had nothing to lose, his life wasn't working out well, and he might as well commit petty crimes and fight with the police, because society had given up on him anyway.
1
Perfectly put. I applaud your equanimity and common sense.
1
Only in America can you reduce civil rights struggle into a mob of marchers, led by an unemployed shyster with a millions-sized tax liability, with their hands up in the air trying to continue the narrative that blacks are "victims" and whites are racists. There are numerous incidents where blacks use the term "whitey", where blacks have killed whites based on just the color of the victim and these actions are not reported as racist.
As long as the black community continues to be led by individuals of dubious moral character, they will be made to look like the fools they are walking around with their hands up in the air... a gesture that has been proven to be false and not represented by forensic evidence.
No matter what those who protested with their hands up say now, there is no doubt they were "conned" by the leaders they chose to follow.
As long as the black community continues to be led by individuals of dubious moral character, they will be made to look like the fools they are walking around with their hands up in the air... a gesture that has been proven to be false and not represented by forensic evidence.
No matter what those who protested with their hands up say now, there is no doubt they were "conned" by the leaders they chose to follow.
30
The black community does not ask for people like Sharpton. It's fairly obvious that he inserts himself into anything he sees fit. Even Eric Garner's daughter said the same. To say that blacks run to someone like Sharpton for leadership makes the assumption that blacks are one autonomous unit. They are not.
Perhaps consider the circumstance - if your child was killed and you had this high profile person offering comfort and to fight for you, and you are in the middle of dealing with this emotional trauma, how easy would it be for you to cling to this person who says they will get justice for you?
Perhaps consider the circumstance - if your child was killed and you had this high profile person offering comfort and to fight for you, and you are in the middle of dealing with this emotional trauma, how easy would it be for you to cling to this person who says they will get justice for you?
6
Sometime in the future a book will be written, with the title, The Thief Who Became A Martyr.Before we can dispense with racism, we must stop using flawed examples to illustrate our anger. Brown was a thief and a bully, that is a fact, as shown in a video as he stole cigars from a store & then when the store owner confronted him he aggressively moved towards the small Indian proprietor as if to strike him, Brown was 6"4" and almost 300 lbs. He then had a confrontation with a Police officer & struck him,The rest was an over reaction on the part of the Police Officer, who shot & killed him, The Officer's life was not in apparent danger, which is the only reason to shoot to kill.The Officer was expelled from the force, but should have been indicted.
Whether or not, Brown had his hands in the air, which is what his companion who was a felon said. He was a poor example to use as a symbol of racism.
A much better example is Black unemployment,poverty and a racist generalization of an entire group of people, where 98% are hard working,
religious, Americans that pay their taxes.
Whether or not, Brown had his hands in the air, which is what his companion who was a felon said. He was a poor example to use as a symbol of racism.
A much better example is Black unemployment,poverty and a racist generalization of an entire group of people, where 98% are hard working,
religious, Americans that pay their taxes.
5
The officer was just attacked by Brown. If Brown were moving toward me I would feel threaten and would use all resources at my disposal to defend myself. Put yourself in that situation and tell me you would do something different.
4
Poverty and black unemployment are two things society in general cannot remedy without the help from the black population.
The bigger story than "Hands up, don't shoot" that should resonate with every budget-strapped municipality in the nation is that the DOJ found that the City of Ferguson used law enforcement to fleece citizens for minor traffic infractions and misdemeanors in order to pay themselves.
Could money, not racism, have been the city's primary motivation?
How many other cities in America are using their municipal courts and law enforcement to harvest revenue from the public, whether they are black, white or whatever?
This seems to me to be an even bigger story broadly underscored by Eric Holder's DOJ investigation and merits national attention, even in cities and counties where racism is less of a problem than budget shortfalls.
Could money, not racism, have been the city's primary motivation?
How many other cities in America are using their municipal courts and law enforcement to harvest revenue from the public, whether they are black, white or whatever?
This seems to me to be an even bigger story broadly underscored by Eric Holder's DOJ investigation and merits national attention, even in cities and counties where racism is less of a problem than budget shortfalls.
8
Valid point. Just think of the speed-traps in little towns in certain states catching tourists. Some police departments are self-sufficient by writing enough tickets....Yes, it is not always about race but race is what sells.
1
My last traffic ticket was for speeding...which I was not doing at the time. the officer simply made up a number for the speed I was doing...and it's not a good idea to call the officer out when he's lying. My take, the village needed the revenue to pay his salary and had probably told him exactly that. Bring in tickets or lose your job. So he did. The only color he was concerned about was....green.
But do we think that the biggest promulgator of the Big Lie -- Al Sharpton -- will never be invited to the White House again?
This lie went all the way to the top, carried there by a self-styled "civil rights leader" who's nothing but a shakedown con man.
Yet I'm betting Obama will still welcome him into the White House.
This lie went all the way to the top, carried there by a self-styled "civil rights leader" who's nothing but a shakedown con man.
Yet I'm betting Obama will still welcome him into the White House.
31
It was pretty obvious to most of us rational folks that the Brown shooting was totally justified. I like the "hands up, don't shoot" demonstrations, if only more people would do that when approached by the police instead of threatening them and resisting. I know of at least two people that would be alive today....
19
You describe yourself as rational and your belief that the Brown shooting was totally justified. So Mr Rational, what you are saying is that anyone who resists arrest should be shot dead....and that's why officer Wilson was justified in doing what he did instead of waiting for back up.
3
You must have missed Brown going for the officers gun and then charging him. How do you still cling to what has been shown to be nothing but a pack of lies.
2
Whatever happened to sound and video of a couple of construction workers discussing the incident right as it was or right after it happened ? I know I watched it and heard it on numerous national nightly news broadcasts that evening or at the least the next day. They were WHITE construction workers and one said he had his arms/hands up . Somebody has the video..........share it.
6
The "scathing report" (who's checking the veracity of the details? assertions made by one side are not facts) is cover for the fact that they got absolutely nothing on officer Wilson.
15
Why is the Wilson part acceptable, but the report on police abuse is not?
6
You understand that the report includes seized emails detailing the corruption? When council members are linking Ferguson's budget shortfalls to requests for increased citations and corrupt judges to drum up revenue, those emails go well beyond "assertions by one side." Can I assume you've actually read the thing?
1
I wish the article would have delved into the evidence more. It seems to assume that 'hands up' is an urban legend, rather than weighing the testimony. There were witnesses who were sure Brown's hands were up, I'd like to know why they are being dismissed.
4
Forensic analysis of blood spatter showed that Michael Brown was moving towards Darren Wilson. An example of one of the witnesses whose account was dismissed would be that of a 31 year old black woman who initially said she saw Office Brown fire shots into Michael Brown's back as he lay on the ground. Later she recanted and said what she really saw was Michael Brown running towards Officer Wilson, but had been afraid to contradict the earlier narrative. Similarly, other accounts supporting the "hands up" narrative were not, are not credible.
5
Assertions or complaints are not factual accounts of what actually happened.
If the Brown incident did not become such a big media story and the parents had filed a complaint with the police, that complaint could have made it into the report and assumed as facts.
The investigation showed otherwise.
If the Brown incident did not become such a big media story and the parents had filed a complaint with the police, that complaint could have made it into the report and assumed as facts.
The investigation showed otherwise.
1
The very first description put forth as narrative of Michael Brown was that he was a gentle giant. Then I saw the video of how Michael Brown had acted towards a clerk moments before he was shot. Of course there were different narratives put forth by different people. But Eric Holder immediately jumped on the "Hands Up" bandwagon before an investigation.
I thought it was outrageous how he politicized the situation from the very beginning. This action, along with not one prosecution of a banker from the 2008 financial crisis, makes him one of the worst Attorney Generals ever in my mind.
I thought it was outrageous how he politicized the situation from the very beginning. This action, along with not one prosecution of a banker from the 2008 financial crisis, makes him one of the worst Attorney Generals ever in my mind.
28
Great slogan. Wrong case.
8
“To me, he had his hands up,” said Michael T. McPhearson, co-chairman of the Don’t Shoot Coalition in St. Louis. “It doesn’t change it for me.”
Your organization is built around a lie, and that "doesn’t change it "for you.
Pathetic.
Your organization is built around a lie, and that "doesn’t change it "for you.
Pathetic.
63
Because it's not a lie, it's "truthy." "Truthiness" (akin to political correctness) always, always trumps the plain truth for liberals of a certain mindset.
2
The explicit and implicit racism expressed in these comments make me fear for the future of racial relations in our nation.
8
As well you should. The responses to these highly charged incidents has only been, in a word popular some years ago, "divisive."
I have no doubts that the police in Ferguson are racist and are quick to use force against people of color. Unfortunately this is common in many police departments including here in Miami where police use guns quickly and often But I also have no doubts that Michael Brown was no "gentle giant" as he was first portrayed. Indeed, if a white guy did the things that Brown did, he would also have been killed. It is unfortunate that Brown has become a symbol of protest. This only reinforces the racist feelings of a large segment of our population. Certainly we could do better than this, symbol-wise.
77
No one seems to be considering that this may have been a simple case of suicide by cop. It's the only explanation for someone charging an armed police officer relentlessly like that, even after being shot several times. But we'd rather have it be a racial issue than mental health, which is much less popular topic in the media.
You must not have lived in Miami in the 1970's and 80's when no one was safe, not police or citizenry, due to local and imported drug dealers who used guns quickly and often. Miami is safer now due to immediate action by police. Just say "Thank you".
3
"Indeed, if a white guy did the things that Brown did, he would also have been killed."
This is the kind of iry declaration that can never be proven or disproven. While we know that people of all races are killed by the police, we also know that it tends to take far less aggressive behavior on the part of blacks before the police open fire. I have often noted that Officer Wilson has many options that could have avoided his killing Michael Brown. He could have been civil when he first encountered the two teens. Even after the initial altercation in his car, he could have followed Brown and called for back-up if he honestly felt like a child facing a monster as he testified. There is no way to know if Wilson would have behaved the same way if Brown has been white, but I think it's rather irresponsible to insist that he would have. There is ample evidence that the Ferguson Police Dept. treats blacks and whites very differently and that a culture of bigotry suffuses that department. How can anyone possibly claim that that culture wouldn't have impacted Wilson's behavior?
This is the kind of iry declaration that can never be proven or disproven. While we know that people of all races are killed by the police, we also know that it tends to take far less aggressive behavior on the part of blacks before the police open fire. I have often noted that Officer Wilson has many options that could have avoided his killing Michael Brown. He could have been civil when he first encountered the two teens. Even after the initial altercation in his car, he could have followed Brown and called for back-up if he honestly felt like a child facing a monster as he testified. There is no way to know if Wilson would have behaved the same way if Brown has been white, but I think it's rather irresponsible to insist that he would have. There is ample evidence that the Ferguson Police Dept. treats blacks and whites very differently and that a culture of bigotry suffuses that department. How can anyone possibly claim that that culture wouldn't have impacted Wilson's behavior?
2
Reactions to the message of "Hand up. Don't shoot." are a litmus test for a person's ability to understand on a symbolic level or a literal level -- and to feel compassion or indifference, respectively.
8
It was just reported that the President of the United States has seen fit to comment on the widespread nature of discrimination as regards this small suburb of St. Louis- Ferguson.
I find it incredible that our President can take time off from dealing with the World's political circumstances as these may impact adversely on the World's citizenry- to comment on whatever is, -or is not going on in 'Ferguson'.
I find it incredible that our President can take time off from dealing with the World's political circumstances as these may impact adversely on the World's citizenry- to comment on whatever is, -or is not going on in 'Ferguson'.
16
You find it incredible? It's in the national news. It's a major topic of discussion. It's about race relations. Why wouldn't the President comment about it? Or...are you the type who is ready to complain about the President regardless of what he does or doesn't do? Yeah, that's the ticket.
3
“Fifty years from now, he’ll still be the white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen.”
Well, yes. Because he *is* a white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen. No one has ever questioned that Brown was unarmed. Even Wilson stated that he didn't think Brown had a gun. Hence the hands up pose, which is a visual reference to being unarmed.
Well, yes. Because he *is* a white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen. No one has ever questioned that Brown was unarmed. Even Wilson stated that he didn't think Brown had a gun. Hence the hands up pose, which is a visual reference to being unarmed.
12
Brown may have been unarmed, but not from want of trying. Will anyone remember the shop keeper Brown assualted and robbed just ten minutes earlier?
6
Really. I thought that the hands up meant that the young man was complying with the officer and holding his hands upon to show that he was not armed and that he would do as the officer instructed?
3
Since there had already been a struggle for the gun if the officer had not defended himself as he did he may be dead.
2
Fiction. Hands up, Don't shoot. Fiction.
24
The Ferguson is Guilty; and Officer Darren Wilson is innocent.
Can the American people hold these two thoughts in their mind at the same time?
Everything about the government in Ferguson is despicable. The mayor should be recalled; the police chief fired; the police department disbanded (with the county taking over policing); municipal judges impeached; officials should be sued civilly and, if possible, prosecuted criminally. In fact, St. Louis county should temporarily take over civil government in Ferguson until it is all reconstituted.
But, on the individual facts of the Wilson - Brown encounter, Wilson is innocent for all the reasons outlined in the DoJ Report. Brown robbed a grocery store, assaulted the clerk, endangered traffic, refused Wilson's order to get to the sidewalk, assaulted Wilson, attempted murder by reaching for and fighting over Wilson's revolver, assaulted Wilson, ignored warning shots (including those that wounded Wilson), refused Wilson's order to "freeze," and then charged Wilson, before finally being shot dead.
The state of terror in Ferguson prevented witnesses in support of Wilson from coming forward (but they did to the DoJ). So called "witnesses" supporting Brown lied, in the worst cases, or were not supported by objective, forensic evidence. All credible evidence supports Wilson.
Police departments need radical reform. On the facts, Wilson is innocent.
The black commentariat, including at the Times, was hysterical and wrong.
Can the American people hold these two thoughts in their mind at the same time?
Everything about the government in Ferguson is despicable. The mayor should be recalled; the police chief fired; the police department disbanded (with the county taking over policing); municipal judges impeached; officials should be sued civilly and, if possible, prosecuted criminally. In fact, St. Louis county should temporarily take over civil government in Ferguson until it is all reconstituted.
But, on the individual facts of the Wilson - Brown encounter, Wilson is innocent for all the reasons outlined in the DoJ Report. Brown robbed a grocery store, assaulted the clerk, endangered traffic, refused Wilson's order to get to the sidewalk, assaulted Wilson, attempted murder by reaching for and fighting over Wilson's revolver, assaulted Wilson, ignored warning shots (including those that wounded Wilson), refused Wilson's order to "freeze," and then charged Wilson, before finally being shot dead.
The state of terror in Ferguson prevented witnesses in support of Wilson from coming forward (but they did to the DoJ). So called "witnesses" supporting Brown lied, in the worst cases, or were not supported by objective, forensic evidence. All credible evidence supports Wilson.
Police departments need radical reform. On the facts, Wilson is innocent.
The black commentariat, including at the Times, was hysterical and wrong.
22
While it appears there is no substantive evidence that Darren Wilson violated Michael Brown's civil rights, there is an argument to be made that the "climate of confrontation" between police officers and black residents of Ferguson contributed to the interaction that resulted in Mr. Brown's death.
After reading the scathing DOJ report, one needn't wonder why residents of Ferguson mistrust the police and perceive them like an invading, occupying force more concerned with hunting down residents rather than serving and protecting their best interests.
Institutional racism is embedded in the fabric of our nation, and Ferguson is clearly not the only jurisdiction in America in which this kind of conduct occurs. It just happens to be the focal point at the moment.
The justice department needs to embark upon a comprehensive evaluation of every law enforcement agency in the nation and certify whether each is adhering to constitutional protections of its citizens, not just in regard to matters of racism, but for all the civil rights that are guaranteed to the people.
In recent decades, and especially following 9/11, the United States has gradually moved toward solidifying a police state in which unmitigated fear of the bogeyman has come to trump our constitutional and civil rights. "Protecting" people from the "bad guy" has become an excuse to violate the constitution at every level of government.
After reading the scathing DOJ report, one needn't wonder why residents of Ferguson mistrust the police and perceive them like an invading, occupying force more concerned with hunting down residents rather than serving and protecting their best interests.
Institutional racism is embedded in the fabric of our nation, and Ferguson is clearly not the only jurisdiction in America in which this kind of conduct occurs. It just happens to be the focal point at the moment.
The justice department needs to embark upon a comprehensive evaluation of every law enforcement agency in the nation and certify whether each is adhering to constitutional protections of its citizens, not just in regard to matters of racism, but for all the civil rights that are guaranteed to the people.
In recent decades, and especially following 9/11, the United States has gradually moved toward solidifying a police state in which unmitigated fear of the bogeyman has come to trump our constitutional and civil rights. "Protecting" people from the "bad guy" has become an excuse to violate the constitution at every level of government.
11
The DOJ findings in Ferguson reflect a level of contempt for Black Americans that is almost pathological .
The notion that the protests by Black residents in Ferguson the death of an unarmed Black teen was not warranted is an insult and the reveals the scope of the racial pathology that has contaminated so much of America and lead the death of Michael Brown and many other unarmed Black Americans.
The notion that the protests by Black residents in Ferguson the death of an unarmed Black teen was not warranted is an insult and the reveals the scope of the racial pathology that has contaminated so much of America and lead the death of Michael Brown and many other unarmed Black Americans.
8
The protests were about an unarmed teenager who was obviously attempting to comply with the officer and was murdered by the officer. That was the justification for all the violence against not just the police but all the businesses nearby, to make it clear that the loss of an innocent life had consequences. That's a lot different from assembling and petitioning the government for a redress of grievances over racial injustices.
Unfortunately, the teenager was a very big older adolescent who for some reason was extremely angry and exhibited a great deal of belligerency before the confrontation which lead to the shooting began, likely did attack the officer for no apparent reason and intended to do harm to him by any means that he could find. Furthermore some of the witnesses misrepresented what happened which lead to all the outrage and subsequent violence.
Unfortunately, the teenager was a very big older adolescent who for some reason was extremely angry and exhibited a great deal of belligerency before the confrontation which lead to the shooting began, likely did attack the officer for no apparent reason and intended to do harm to him by any means that he could find. Furthermore some of the witnesses misrepresented what happened which lead to all the outrage and subsequent violence.
4
This was clearly a political report that chose one side of a contested issue calling for informed judgment, rather than leaving the issue to a jury. It shows a shameful arrogance and lack of confidence in normal judicial procedures. Worse, important issues of the use of force by police and over-militarization have now been swept from public debate. And trust in the police has been further undermined now that the public understands they will not be held accountable for their actions. Why?
1
Forrest, you say it was a political report. Do you suggest that Mr.Holder's procedures are not above board and fair?
3
Based on the many comments in the NYT and other outlets, it looks like there's only one solution: drastically reduce the amount of white male police officers in America. Fill the ranks with minorities and women.
I'm certain that those members of urban minority communities will change their behavior and totally respect the new faces of law enforcement.
I'm certain that those members of urban minority communities will change their behavior and totally respect the new faces of law enforcement.
12
I realize you are being satirical. However, roPublica recently conducted a study to determine, “Who is killing all these black men and boys?” The answer was “Mostly white officers. But in hundreds of instances, black officers, too. Black officers account for a little more than 10 percent of all fatal police shootings. Of those they kill, though, 78 percent were black.” Black officers make up far less than 10 percent of America's police officers, but are involved in more than 10 percent of fatal police shootings.
3
Concur: The man behind the uniform is problem. Not lawlessness and a culture of violence within pockets of America.
Darren Wilson had the choice to get back in his car and call for backup. Like Zimmerman in the case of Trayvon Martin, he chose to prolong the confrontation and shoot his way out. People with this unhealthy combination of machismo, ego, racism, herd mentality, and poor training should not be carrying a gun.
5
Advising on proper police tactics is probably best left to experts trained in these matters. In addition, you have the luxury of thinking through and analyzing the whole chain of events at your leisure, while Wislon, already having had the perpetrator attempt to grab his gun, had difficult, split-second decisions to make, including the safety of the community at large with Brown on the loose. And while there were undoubtedly racial abuses on the Ferguson squad, what particular evidence can you cite that Wilson's actions in this case were motivated by machismo, ego, racism?
8
Unlike civilians, police officers have no duty to retreat. Indeed, they have the duty to do the opposite unless they have reason to believe they cannot handle a situation. Precisely because Brown *was* unarmed, there was no need to call for backup. Wilson was paid to deal with crime and criminals, not to sit in his car calling for other people to come and do it.
5
“It has more to do with people’s feelings than it does with a single person and what happens on a single day,”
That perfectly sums up our hypersensitized, distorted political culture: feelings, not what actually happened, are what count.
That perfectly sums up our hypersensitized, distorted political culture: feelings, not what actually happened, are what count.
24
Yes...feelings are more important than facts and logic. There's a great quote in "The Deer Hunter". It goes, "This is about THIS".
3
Why not continue the "Hands Up, Don't Shoot"? If more folks, when stopped by the police would repeat that phrase and put their hands up instead of resisting anything the police request, most of these incidents would never reach critical mass. But, as I've stated before, increasing resistance to the police, and it's negative results, appear to be a growing trend in America. Not all police are evil and not all folks stopped by the police are innocent.
11
Can we all focus on the root causes, both with the police and our fellow citizens? Too much of reporting has become one sided and driven to drive web site traffic. While hands up don's shoot is a rally cry, became one because minorities continue to feel oppressed and we are quick to draw conclusions as it sells more ads. We have lost more citizens to murders in Chicago alone since 2003, over 5,000 than we did during the entire Iraq War, 4,500. Chicago does not even have the highest murder rate per 100,000 people in the US. Does that bother anyone else besides me?
7
The determination that Officer Wilson's conduct was not provably at fault and that the demonstrations that followed were based on false premises suggest that the whole Ferguson crisis resulted from mistakes, misunderstandings, and overreactions by those who attacked the police and the prosecutor. It seems clear that the separate investigation regarding the police's ticketing policy was politically motivated to save face for friends of this Justice Department, Whatever this separate investigation finds, we are talking about traffic tickets. Traffic tickets?
7
Traffic tickets are expensive for the poor. And if you don't pay, there are serious consequences. It's also a form of harassment to pull people over constantly and pepper them with questions.
3
Why do liars lie? Why do people spread a lie? The same questions could be asked of the Salem witchcraft trials or of the McCarthy era, but I don't recall anyone trying to empathize with the liars or to understand their situation. Maybe instead the liars should apologize to Officer Wilson for the wrong they did. We could start with Eric Holder and the false media reports embraced by so many.
Its a little like Tawana Brawley case years back with Al Sharpton. Say the lies enough and people will believe it long before the "facts" are established and then never admit error or apologize.
80
Yes...all it takes is to repeat the lies, the distortion of facts, and, soon enough, they will become the facts.
3
Good point. Fox news gets the facts wrong all the time and it really works for them!!!! Their viewers never question the lies they are told.
To view the events and aftermath of Ferguson as a resident of St. Louis is disheartening.
Hundreds of protesters and every major media outlet in the country, from NY to Atlanta to Chicago, took glee in descending upon this town to fan the flames of outrage over "Hands Up, Don't Shoot."
Then, as soon as the images of cops in riot gear were finished Ferguson smoldered in ruin from the riots, they left. Help? Nah. A discussion about the dangers of media sensationalism? Absolutely not. Who cares about some town in the Midwest.
Hundreds of protesters and every major media outlet in the country, from NY to Atlanta to Chicago, took glee in descending upon this town to fan the flames of outrage over "Hands Up, Don't Shoot."
Then, as soon as the images of cops in riot gear were finished Ferguson smoldered in ruin from the riots, they left. Help? Nah. A discussion about the dangers of media sensationalism? Absolutely not. Who cares about some town in the Midwest.
45
The progressive narrative and "hands up don't shoot" catch-phrase collapse entirely. How about a simple admission by the progressives and their opinion-formers that "we were 100% wrong to rush to judgment instead of waiting for the facts"?
50
Well, some of us progressives did wait for the facts. And from what I've seen, conservatives are just as willing to rush to judgment. The problem here is human nature. And remember that ideology is intrinsically stupid. It is valid to have liberal or conservative goals, but it is no guide to the truth and cannot be. Those who are interested in knowing the truth must leave their ideology at the doorstep.
7
I agree. We would also be helped by an acknowledgement from conservatives that the Ferguson judicial system behaved in a racist manner. The nation needs to hear both kinds of statements not rationalizations for earlier knee jerk reactions.
4
Does it matter if "Hands up" wasn't based on the facts of this particular case (at least as far as anyone can determine)?
Regardless, it remains an tragically apt metaphor for the plight of young black men faced with a biased justice system.
Regardless, it remains an tragically apt metaphor for the plight of young black men faced with a biased justice system.
7
Yes. It matters greatly. Typical counter statement when someone realizes they were wrong.
12
Does the truth matter?
Yes.
Yes.
10
The DOJ report does not verify that Brown was surrendering when he moved towards Wilson. However, it does not prove that he wasn't attempting to surrender either.
A lot of conservative commentators on this site are pretending that they now know the truth. Sorry, but YOU don't. As the DOJ can't prove Brown was surrendering and can't prove he had his hands up...Wilson is off the hook. That is not the same as proving that Brown was not surrendering and attempting to attack Wilson.
A lot of conservative commentators on this site are pretending that they now know the truth. Sorry, but YOU don't. As the DOJ can't prove Brown was surrendering and can't prove he had his hands up...Wilson is off the hook. That is not the same as proving that Brown was not surrendering and attempting to attack Wilson.
2
We can blame this lie on both the media and the black community. There were several witnesses who refuted this lie. Why didn't they speak up at the outset? Brown's accomplice who told the lie was already under indictment for lying under oath. Where was the media investigation of this witness and the other witnesses?
Take a close look at Hayden's report. It compares the percent of the Ferguson black population to the percent of arrests. First, it assumes that all of the blacks arrested were residents of Ferguson. It then assumes that whites break the law at the same rate as blacks. Thus, there must be bias.
Here are a couple of analogies to Hayden's logic. There must be bias against whites in the NBA because 90% of the players are black while blacks only represent 20% of the US population. There must be bias against whites in the black community because they voted over 90% for a black President.
Look at the 90% blacks arrested for jay walking versus 70% of the population. What portion of blacks were walking in the area?
There were comments among Ferguson police officers that could reflect bias. What would comments by blacks in a predominantly black police force reflect? What would comments among employees of the justice department reflect?
Hayden could not find anything to indict. This report was intended to counter the reaction in the black community.
Where are the media reports on these realities? Their coverage reflects their bias.
Take a close look at Hayden's report. It compares the percent of the Ferguson black population to the percent of arrests. First, it assumes that all of the blacks arrested were residents of Ferguson. It then assumes that whites break the law at the same rate as blacks. Thus, there must be bias.
Here are a couple of analogies to Hayden's logic. There must be bias against whites in the NBA because 90% of the players are black while blacks only represent 20% of the US population. There must be bias against whites in the black community because they voted over 90% for a black President.
Look at the 90% blacks arrested for jay walking versus 70% of the population. What portion of blacks were walking in the area?
There were comments among Ferguson police officers that could reflect bias. What would comments by blacks in a predominantly black police force reflect? What would comments among employees of the justice department reflect?
Hayden could not find anything to indict. This report was intended to counter the reaction in the black community.
Where are the media reports on these realities? Their coverage reflects their bias.
69
Oh, please. Anyone who thinks this report in any way shores up the argument that there weren't massive racially based problems in Ferguson is living in a white dream world.
1
The most honest lie is always made "under oath", ask any policeman. If your not willing to lie under oath, it's hardly worth lying, is it? In the United States, lying, cheating, stealing, gaming the system seems to be what we do best. Certainly since we sent steel making to China.
1
Well said, but there *were* some figures in the DOJ report that were solid evidence of discrimination, and there were apparently a number of racist emails by government officials as well.
We should decry the distortions you mentioned but not overlook actual abuses.
We should decry the distortions you mentioned but not overlook actual abuses.
2
I think there would be a lot less protest about brutality if the police were not used as revenue collection officers by the city. Anyone who has ever received an unfair traffic ticket is going to assume the police are no good, and this is going to spill over into their attitude towards shootings. Everyone will think that the police lie about everything, and its all a cover-up.
40
The Sharptons of the world, and agitators, are so quick to use these incidents for their own purposes. I find that disgusting. Buildings were burned, shops looted, chaos ensued for a while. Those riots were not justice, but anarchy. Awful. We all need to chill, let the facts come out, before we try police officers and others in the media and on social media.
83
Maybe the storekeepers can band together and sue Sharpton for damages? That man is like Joe McCarthy and it's time he was brought down.
8
But the riots were not really a response to the specific claims of Mr. Brown's having been shot while surrendering; they were a response to the systemic abuse that the community had endured for decades, as detailed in the Justice Department report.
I agree with your characterization of Sharpton, and at this point would despise him even if he apologized for the Brawley fiasco, but I think that there's more to this story than just agitators.
I agree with your characterization of Sharpton, and at this point would despise him even if he apologized for the Brawley fiasco, but I think that there's more to this story than just agitators.
5
Repeat a lie over and over, get others to do the same and 'wala' you have truth!
Standard operating procedure for the left and exacerbated by liberal news outlets like the New York Times.
Standard operating procedure for the left and exacerbated by liberal news outlets like the New York Times.
54
Are you not aware of the studies that find that people who watch Fox News know *less* about current events than people who watch no news at all, because they're fed a diet of lies?
If you look at my comments above, you'll see that I criticized the increasingly obvious slant in coverage by the Times, but the Times at least tries to be objective as you would know if you had ever known anyone who worked for the paper, while Murdoch is known for unprincipled, partisan journalism and there are accounts by former Murdoch employees that mention the expectation that they will slant the news, as well as word coming down to do so.
If you look at my comments above, you'll see that I criticized the increasingly obvious slant in coverage by the Times, but the Times at least tries to be objective as you would know if you had ever known anyone who worked for the paper, while Murdoch is known for unprincipled, partisan journalism and there are accounts by former Murdoch employees that mention the expectation that they will slant the news, as well as word coming down to do so.
11
Standard operating procedure on the right as well "exacerbated by conservative news outlets like Fox."
1
The real test here is the failure of the media to actually investigate and report facts. It must have been easy to roll up into Ferguson, find the lying witnesses from social media and then simply repeat what their lies.
Amazing how the DOJ could easily find a greater number of witnesses in a culture of "don't snitch" who supported the officer, yet the NYT and many other "news organizations" could not.
Shameful and disgraceful journalism at best.
Amazing how the DOJ could easily find a greater number of witnesses in a culture of "don't snitch" who supported the officer, yet the NYT and many other "news organizations" could not.
Shameful and disgraceful journalism at best.
154
This was the job of the DOJ and the DA. I'd be the first to criticize the slanted "unarmed black teenager shot by police officer" coverage, and in fact did so at the time, but I think you're overestimating the investigative resources of daily journalism. Journalists can't launch a major investigative effort on every single story.
4
"“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday."
When the Attorney General essentially validates a thoroughly disproved rallying cry, it is a sign that justice is no longer being served, but an ideological agenda is taking its place. Shameful, divisive and not becoming to the highest legal office in the land.
When the Attorney General essentially validates a thoroughly disproved rallying cry, it is a sign that justice is no longer being served, but an ideological agenda is taking its place. Shameful, divisive and not becoming to the highest legal office in the land.
55
He just invalidated a rally cry. I guess it's a sign justice is being served and an ideological agenda is not taking place. So show some pride for your DOJ and AG.
2
How did he validate the rallying cry? He just produced a in-depth report that completely invalidated that rallying cry. Your criticism makes no sense.
And Holder is right. People that are systematically abused by the cops are going to be quick to believe the worst about them. You would do the same.
Its about time the Ferguson Police Department got fixed. How it operates is absolutely shameful.
And Holder is right. People that are systematically abused by the cops are going to be quick to believe the worst about them. You would do the same.
Its about time the Ferguson Police Department got fixed. How it operates is absolutely shameful.
1
You're misreading that. He actually invalidates the 'hands up' rallying cry.
Journalists are held to a high standard: they must not lie. But there are even higher standards! Scientific researchers, in their publications, must not lie, but also must not tell the truth in ways that create a false impression. It is a pity that journalists aren't held to this standard.
Every time (and it was always and relentless) that the NYT used the phrase "unarmed black teenager," it was the truth, but one that conveyed the false impression that Michael Brown was harmless and not posing a threat. Thus, the way in which the NYT chose to tell a truth created a powerful lie that caused great damage. The NYT is a great paper, but shame on you for this unethical campaign against the full truth.
Every time (and it was always and relentless) that the NYT used the phrase "unarmed black teenager," it was the truth, but one that conveyed the false impression that Michael Brown was harmless and not posing a threat. Thus, the way in which the NYT chose to tell a truth created a powerful lie that caused great damage. The NYT is a great paper, but shame on you for this unethical campaign against the full truth.
144
Well, he was in fact walking down the middle of the street....
Sadly, the Times no longer hews to its traditional standard of non-partisan coverage. Just look at its use of the absurd "undocumented immigrant" or "migrant" to refer to illegal aliens.
11
It's quite amazing how millions of people can believe a story that turns out to be fictional.
92
It's amazing how the news media choose to play down or simply not mention the details that made it clear early on that the story was most likely false. For example, they could have explicitly made the connection between the autopsy results (not shot in the back) casting extreme doubt on Brown's friend's story. They could also have publicized the fact I found in the local St. Louis paper that Johnson had already been in trouble before for lying to the police. Instead they glossed over or ignored those bits in favor of sustaining the larger, more telegenic narrative.
9
Well, half the country voted for Bush and 90% believe that the universe was created by an invisible space monkey. More than half of young Americans believe in demonic possession and a quarter are warming deniers. And we saw a similar phenomenon with the ridiculous Ebola panic, didn't we? And the anti-vaccine nuts? And the Woody Allen molestation accusation?
Psychologists say that only 12-14% of the population have rational NT personality types, and only a minority are educated enough to separate fact from fiction.
Psychologists say that only 12-14% of the population have rational NT personality types, and only a minority are educated enough to separate fact from fiction.
5
Amazing means causing great surprise or wonder; astonishing.
Given what we already know about our society's perpetual ( self-appointed ) victims - I am neither surprised, or astonished.
Given what we already know about our society's perpetual ( self-appointed ) victims - I am neither surprised, or astonished.
4
I keep reading in the news media how the police forces in the country are racists and out of control and need to be retrained. It seems to me though that both Michael Brown and Eric Gardner would both be alive today if they had complied with police officers request. In Mr Brown's case all he needed to do was to step out of the street and onto the sidewalk. And when Eric Gardner was told to put his hands behind his back that he was under arrest, his response was that he was not going to jail that day.
99
Not exactly capital offenses, were they?
4
Well yes, and that's a point that just hasn't made it into news coverage. Indeed, when a reporter for the Times, himself an African-American, had the temerity to state that Michael Brown was not an angel, he was called on the carpet by the forces of political correctness and backed down.
Once we have acknowledged that many of these cases begin with resisting arrest and violence on the part of a criminal, we can move on to the twin problems of reducing levels of crime and violence by young African-American men and insuring that the police stay within the law and use the least lethal techniques possible to subdue those that resist arrest. Let's be honest -- sometimes what we see, as in Simi Valley, is street punishment rather than police work, and I can't for the life of me see how what was done to Eric Garner wasn't a crime.
Once we have acknowledged that many of these cases begin with resisting arrest and violence on the part of a criminal, we can move on to the twin problems of reducing levels of crime and violence by young African-American men and insuring that the police stay within the law and use the least lethal techniques possible to subdue those that resist arrest. Let's be honest -- sometimes what we see, as in Simi Valley, is street punishment rather than police work, and I can't for the life of me see how what was done to Eric Garner wasn't a crime.
2
Josh Hill, one of my favorite commentators said: “Let's be honest -- sometimes what we see, as in Simi Valley, is street punishment rather than police work, and I can't for the life of me see how what was done to Eric Garner wasn't a crime.”
No one was trying to kill or even punish Eric Garner - just subdue this giant. The forces applied to Mr. Garner would, absent his invisible medical problems, not be near fatal. The choke hold was not illegal, not criminal - just against department rules. Every officer expects these rules to be waived when necessary.
No one was trying to kill or even punish Eric Garner - just subdue this giant. The forces applied to Mr. Garner would, absent his invisible medical problems, not be near fatal. The choke hold was not illegal, not criminal - just against department rules. Every officer expects these rules to be waived when necessary.
1
I think first and foremost the US has much work to do with race. The events in Ferguson and else where have demonstrated these facts. What is detrimental for better relations is the news media who rush in and sensationalize stories without facts. The news media throws gasoline on the fire waiting to report the results. We must let cooler heads discover the truth as the DOJ did a thorough investigation and now releasing their conclusions. This country does not need this kind of news media reporting or outside agitators to make tensions even worse. Yes the city of Ferguson was at fault. Yes, there was bias. Yes, it was a tragedy that a young man died. There is much work to do in this country and much anger to overcome. I think race relations are far more important for Americans than say immigration. After all, this problem affects the very psyche of America and who we really are
13
While it could be that multiple eyewitnesses were wrong in their recollection of the tragic shooting, 'Hands up, don't shoot!' is such a profound Truth about police/policed encounters. These too often result in completely unnecessary lethal force against minorities and the mentally ill.
It doesn't really matter in the end whether this Truth is factual or not: it is such a powerful call for justice, and it has brought many Americans together in protest.
It doesn't really matter in the end whether this Truth is factual or not: it is such a powerful call for justice, and it has brought many Americans together in protest.
16
"It doesn't really matter in the end whether this Truth is factual or not"
Will you feel the same way when the non-factual Truth is being officially told about you or someone close to you? This isn't a victimless lie. A man did his job as he was supposed to do it according to the law and he has had his life ruined for our moral entertainment.
Will you feel the same way when the non-factual Truth is being officially told about you or someone close to you? This isn't a victimless lie. A man did his job as he was supposed to do it according to the law and he has had his life ruined for our moral entertainment.
13
Over an overt lie! That gets you real far.
1
How is burning down a town over an incident in which the police officer was not at fault a call for justice? It seems to me that that kind of precipitous reaction undercuts the struggle for civil rights.
5
Could Ferguson, Missouri, be a matter of the modern telling of the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf?'
Police dishonestly target black citizens for bogus arrests and fines without telling them it's mostly just to raise money for local government coffers, according to the Justice Department investigation. When police then say they are justified in shooting a black suspect, how can local citizens know if it is or is not a case of the police crying wolf?
A pattern of dishonest behavior can lead to mistrust. It's the stuff of stories we were told as children; it's the stuff of real life, too.
Police dishonestly target black citizens for bogus arrests and fines without telling them it's mostly just to raise money for local government coffers, according to the Justice Department investigation. When police then say they are justified in shooting a black suspect, how can local citizens know if it is or is not a case of the police crying wolf?
A pattern of dishonest behavior can lead to mistrust. It's the stuff of stories we were told as children; it's the stuff of real life, too.
29
Sadly, the opposite is also true. Eric Holder's report (kudos to him for completing it and releasing it) contains information that multiple witnesses knowingly lied, in order to support a narrative of police brutality, untrue in this case.
There is absolutely no doubt that some cops abuse their power (I am inclined to think, based on the evidence Officer Wilson is not one of them).
Unfortunately, there are now many white people--perhaps, sadly, MOST--who believe that a much of the African American's story of police abuse and targeting is just what you claim above: crying wolf.
There were so many lies involved in this story, and they dribbled out over such a long time period. In the New York Times comments section of the past two days, multiple people still insist that Mr. Brown was 150 feet away when shot, a lie easily contradicted by physical evidence (the location of Mr. Brown's body and the shell casings from the officer's gun).
These lies did nothing more that strengthen the Republican Party's hand in the upcoming election. The lies made the liberals look like liars, and that is never good. This upsets me, because I think the Republican's are wrong on many issues. It was bad tactics to lie to people. Before you start to insist that Fox News also lies, remember, they have a different base.
There is absolutely no doubt that some cops abuse their power (I am inclined to think, based on the evidence Officer Wilson is not one of them).
Unfortunately, there are now many white people--perhaps, sadly, MOST--who believe that a much of the African American's story of police abuse and targeting is just what you claim above: crying wolf.
There were so many lies involved in this story, and they dribbled out over such a long time period. In the New York Times comments section of the past two days, multiple people still insist that Mr. Brown was 150 feet away when shot, a lie easily contradicted by physical evidence (the location of Mr. Brown's body and the shell casings from the officer's gun).
These lies did nothing more that strengthen the Republican Party's hand in the upcoming election. The lies made the liberals look like liars, and that is never good. This upsets me, because I think the Republican's are wrong on many issues. It was bad tactics to lie to people. Before you start to insist that Fox News also lies, remember, they have a different base.
2
Jeff Roorda, a spokesman for the St. Louis Police Officers Association, laments: “I worry that he (Darren Wilson) will still be a casualty of history. Fifty years from now, he’ll still be the white police officer who shot an unarmed black teen.” But that is exactly what Darren Wilson is -- a white cop who shot an unarmed black teenager. Darren Wilson admitted to not carrying a taser -- a non-lethal weapon which may have spared this young man's life -- because they are too "uncomfortable." I hope you can forgive the civilized and thinking world, Mr. Roorda, if we mourn the death of Michael Brown over the lost job and reputation suffered by an ill-trained, incompetent, and utterly remorseless Darren Wilson.
41
Mr. Brown would still be alive today had he not decided to assault a police officer. Tragic, but a tragedy that Michael Brown brought solely upon himself.
11
Mr. Roorda makes a fair point. None of us wants to be judged by our worst moment. It would be nice if the police officers he represents kept that same thought in mind when confronting unarmed teenagers.
2
How ugly. And what sad evidence that no matter what the facts, some politically motivated people will find a way to believe whatever the hell they want to.
6
Ferguson residents are in a siege mentality; reality ,promoting perceptions that the police harass, select and categorically criminalize African-Americans of the area. Perceptions matter and as one witness stated you must "live the life to know it....." The confrontation between Officer Wilson and Michael Brown was marred with inconsistencies, misrepresentation and lies. However, these lies might have been based on personal injustices these witnesses had when dealing with the police. But in Ferguson, as the report has corroborated, police select suspects based solely on their race and violating their civil rights is the norm. What happen in Ferguson is only a tip of the iceberg as race is still a sensitive subject; better police training and a force that is a reflection of the community is a start. Officer Wilson acted accordingly; Michael Brown died.... The question how can a future encounter end differently without injecting race in the equation?
7
Perceptions do matter, and since its inception American society has perpetuated the belief that African-Americans should be at the bottom of the social hierarchy. It's deeply embedded in our psyches, regardless of our ethnic heritage. This perception makes it easy, and comfortable, to blame African-Americans for their misfortunes, rather than acknowledging society's efforts to keep them at the bottom of the heap.
Was Michael Brown at fault for robbing a store? Absolutely. But he has become a symbol for the systematic and widespread biased treatment of African-Americans by the justice system throughout our country. Search deeper in any community, and I suspect you'll find results similar to those of the Ferguson police department.
Was Michael Brown at fault for robbing a store? Absolutely. But he has become a symbol for the systematic and widespread biased treatment of African-Americans by the justice system throughout our country. Search deeper in any community, and I suspect you'll find results similar to those of the Ferguson police department.
3
There are a lot of myths which have evolved into the legend of this story which has been reinforced by a police bias and then by media outlets not doing a minimal level of due diligent fact checking. While my fact checking may not be 100% accurate, at least I made an effort to read all the witness testimonies. These incorrect facts of mythical prportions have evev permeated the DOJ report explaining why they did not charge Police Officer Darren Wilson. When the correct facts are brought forth in the civil suit recently filed by Michael Brown's family, there is going to a lot of explaining to do by the media.
1
And the absurdity continues. The media still cannot bring itself to state what was obvious long ago: the entire protest was based on a pack of lies. The hoax continues though. With an apparent straight face a black congressional caucus member now says he never suggested Mike Brown had his hands up when shot. Others now shift gears and state it doesn't matter whether his hands were up as they ignore that the central premise of the protests (and riots) was the shooting of a man while his hands were raised. From Sharpton and Jackson, only crickets- and the media does nothing. Instead the media thrusts in our face a report released to divert focus from the innocence of the police officer, and that is based on anecdotes just like the anecdotes that got this whole protest started.
187
If you had read the report, you'd know that it is not "based on anecdotes":
"Our finding that FPD force is routinely unreasonable and sometimes clearly punitive is drawn largely from FPD’s documentation; that is, from officers’ own words. [p.29]"
and
"The department’s own records demonstrate that, as with other types of force, canine officers use dogs out of proportion to the threat posed by the people they encounter, leaving serious puncture wounds to nonviolent offenders, some of them children. [p31]"
"Our finding that FPD force is routinely unreasonable and sometimes clearly punitive is drawn largely from FPD’s documentation; that is, from officers’ own words. [p.29]"
and
"The department’s own records demonstrate that, as with other types of force, canine officers use dogs out of proportion to the threat posed by the people they encounter, leaving serious puncture wounds to nonviolent offenders, some of them children. [p31]"
2
What pack of lies might that be? That the Ferguson Police Dept is shot through with racism? That Wilson shot Brown when he had other options? That Brown's body lay in the street for hours after the killing? That the Ferguson Police were used to compel money from black residents for pretextual traffic infractions that were not visited on white residents? What lies are you referring to because every one of those allegations has proven to be true beyond question.
5
OK, the report shows the blacks make up 67% of the population, yet are numbered in the 90%'s for arrests. So, this immediately makes the cops racists. Of course, on a NATIONAL level blacks make up 13.7% of the population and account for 32% of the crimes - as convicted. So, if the selected population demographic is over 2.5 times as likely to commit a crime statistically, what would the ratio of arrests be as adjusted? Simple math of multiples might give you the following expectations: 13.7% = 32%, 27.4% = 64%, 51.1% = 96% and so forth. So, based on national demographics of convictions and percentage of population it is not surprising to see 90%+ of arrests fall into the demographic when it hits 67% of the population.
96
From the Justice Department report on the Ferguson PD:
"African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables ... but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. African Americans are more likely to be cited and arrested following a stop regardless of why the stop was initiated ... FPD appears to bring certain offenses almost exclusively against African Americans.:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/04/us/ferguson-police-justice...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
"African Americans are more than twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during vehicle stops even after controlling for non-race based variables ... but are found in possession of contraband 26% less often than white drivers, suggesting officers are impermissibly considering race as a factor when determining whether to search. African Americans are more likely to be cited and arrested following a stop regardless of why the stop was initiated ... FPD appears to bring certain offenses almost exclusively against African Americans.:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/04/us/ferguson-police-justice...®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
5
The report also fails to mention that Ferguson boarders several predominantly black neighborhoods and is a main thorofare and shopping area for theses neighborhoods. Many if those tickets and violations may be from others passing through and not ferguson residents.
5
Tim,
What it says is that the judicial system is biased against blacks, we've known this for a long time.
Also, I suggest you read the second report that details just how corrupt the Ferguson Police and Judicial System are. Read the report, digest those numbers and tell us how justified the police were in continuing to harrass blacks as a way to generate revenue for the city.
What it says is that the judicial system is biased against blacks, we've known this for a long time.
Also, I suggest you read the second report that details just how corrupt the Ferguson Police and Judicial System are. Read the report, digest those numbers and tell us how justified the police were in continuing to harrass blacks as a way to generate revenue for the city.
2
“It remains not only valid — but essential — to question how such a strong alternative version of events was able to take hold so swiftly, and be accepted so readily,” Mr. Holder said Wednesday.
Eric Holder should be surprised how an alternative story to the truth was promogulated so quickly. Obama and his justice department were quick to jump on the bandwagaon. Even the NYT continues the incorrect narrative by describing Mr. Brown and an 'unarmed man killed by a white cop' instead of the more accurate 'criminal thug killed while resisting arrest'.
Eric Holder should be surprised how an alternative story to the truth was promogulated so quickly. Obama and his justice department were quick to jump on the bandwagaon. Even the NYT continues the incorrect narrative by describing Mr. Brown and an 'unarmed man killed by a white cop' instead of the more accurate 'criminal thug killed while resisting arrest'.
210
The NYT continues to refer to Mr. Brown as the "unarmed Black teenager," in fact, using every opportunity to use "teenager" rather than "man." I encourage you to search the paper's own database for "18-year-old man": you'll see that was the chosen stylistic convention up until this incident.
1
Unlike commenters, responsible media have an obligation to be as dispassionate as possible in news reports. If you want hysterical descriptions that fit your world view there's always The Daily News or Fox.
Reply to "Jim" from Long Island.
Calling someone a "thug" is a characterization based on what you know now? The cop who killed him may have made the same judgment, but his evidence at the time was mostly based on his appearance, (very big, young, black kid) and his behavior, which was aggressive, confrontational, and certainly irrational to the point of psychosis. He was acting crazy.
Let's just say, that instead of a really big young black guy, it was a middle aged medium height white woman, (just to use an extreme example), would the cop have shot her five times? Of course not.
As she was running away he would have simply called in for more police so she could be subdued and taken away for observation. For the big young black guy, he's out of his car running down the street blasting away. Maybe he didn't have his hands up, he was running away! What kind of threat was that?
Brown, at the time of the shooting was completely "innocent" up until the time he hit the ground, and then, he was an innocent dead man. His behavior may have completely changed with the right medication and counseling and he may with the passage of time completely turned his life around, it happens every day, and now we will never know.
Calling someone a "thug" is a characterization based on what you know now? The cop who killed him may have made the same judgment, but his evidence at the time was mostly based on his appearance, (very big, young, black kid) and his behavior, which was aggressive, confrontational, and certainly irrational to the point of psychosis. He was acting crazy.
Let's just say, that instead of a really big young black guy, it was a middle aged medium height white woman, (just to use an extreme example), would the cop have shot her five times? Of course not.
As she was running away he would have simply called in for more police so she could be subdued and taken away for observation. For the big young black guy, he's out of his car running down the street blasting away. Maybe he didn't have his hands up, he was running away! What kind of threat was that?
Brown, at the time of the shooting was completely "innocent" up until the time he hit the ground, and then, he was an innocent dead man. His behavior may have completely changed with the right medication and counseling and he may with the passage of time completely turned his life around, it happens every day, and now we will never know.
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This reports shows a "Lie" is behind the Hand Up chant. The news media fed that lie by repeating and interviewing Brown's friend who lied to the police and the news media. One would think that seasoned media reporters would have enough sense and integrity to not take a story from a confederate and run with it and feed the flames of discontent. I listened to the reporters from CNN and NBC and they did their best to inflame an already angry citizenry. They should be ashamed. But then hey it made for great ratings didn't it guys?
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Please note that the report does not definitively state that Brown's hands were NOT up; only that it's one version of events that has not been proven. Not quite a "lie."
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A lie is a lie is a lie, no matter who tells it. There is no context to a lie. It is absolute, not relative.
BTW, the report didn't just say that "hands up don't shoot" may not have happened. It extensively debunked much of the testimony that said it did happen.
BTW, the report didn't just say that "hands up don't shoot" may not have happened. It extensively debunked much of the testimony that said it did happen.
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“To me, he had his hands up,” said Michael T. McPhearson, co-chairman of the Don’t Shoot Coalition in St. Louis. “It doesn’t change it for me.”
In other words, don't bother me with the facts, I'll believe what I want to believe.
That being said, the same applies to those who would deny racial bias on the part of the Ferguson cops.
In other words, don't bother me with the facts, I'll believe what I want to believe.
That being said, the same applies to those who would deny racial bias on the part of the Ferguson cops.
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John Crawford never got the chance to put his hands up in an Ohio Walmart. Why won't Holder associate himself with that case?
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DE, I looked it up and the Department of Justice *is* conducting an investigation, just as it did in the Wilson case.
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Stay tuned for the civil case in which for the first time Wilson will have to face questions under oath from an adversarial attorney. It will not be as easy as at the grand jury in which he was essentially allowed to provide an uncontested narrative of what happened.
In the end, an unarmed man was gunned down by a police officer after fleeing 180 feet away from the police car. How close to Wilson was Brown when Wilson started shooting. How many feet did he "bull rush" towards Wilson before the fatal head shot?
In light of the report detailing the long history of racial animus between citizens and Police, there is more here than meets the eye.
In the end, an unarmed man was gunned down by a police officer after fleeing 180 feet away from the police car. How close to Wilson was Brown when Wilson started shooting. How many feet did he "bull rush" towards Wilson before the fatal head shot?
In light of the report detailing the long history of racial animus between citizens and Police, there is more here than meets the eye.
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ScottW--the specific question you've posed have already been answered by blood splatter evidence (Holder acknowledges this). Brown was about 30 feet away when Wilson started shooting and made it about 20 feet back toward Wilson before falling 8 feet from Wilson.
You shouldn't be continuing to give life to false narratives.
You shouldn't be continuing to give life to false narratives.
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If I disobeyed a police order, punched him, reached for and fought over his revolver, ran, ignored shots fired at me, then turned and charged the officer ... I'd expect to be dead. This isn't even a close question.
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Should a police officer who has been physically attacked by a 300 pound man, not shoot that man when doesn't comply, does not submit to arrest, and is charging at the police officer? It's tragic that young man is dead, but the decisions made by each person in the encounter were part of the causes and conditions of the outcome. Sad, but true.
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