In my experience, there is a perfect negative correlation between the amount a woman talks about her "sexuality", and her "classiness" or emotional intelligence. Women who talk and write about sex might think they are cutting edge, but in fact they just don't get it. The intimacy, the personal aspects etc, just completely goes over their heads. Most likely, they are trapped inside the male porn narrative without even knowing it.
48
“People are starting to realize that they can make money letting women be honest and forthright about their sexuality,” said Dana Calvo, a TV writer .
That's the key takeaway, opening up a new mainstream vein to get money. I also think it's funny that the writer used the word "letting." Patriarchal permission for women to frankly act out more truthful scenarios? Madonna has been doing it for 30 years, not asking permission and laughing all the way to the bank. Hollywood is a bit slow on the loosening of stereotypes because they don't want to alienate the conservative dollar, so I think that showing more women from a realistic sexual viewpoint is progress. Certainly more interesting than seeing the harpy wife in the kitchen complaining that her husband is too busy at work to spend time with the family
That's the key takeaway, opening up a new mainstream vein to get money. I also think it's funny that the writer used the word "letting." Patriarchal permission for women to frankly act out more truthful scenarios? Madonna has been doing it for 30 years, not asking permission and laughing all the way to the bank. Hollywood is a bit slow on the loosening of stereotypes because they don't want to alienate the conservative dollar, so I think that showing more women from a realistic sexual viewpoint is progress. Certainly more interesting than seeing the harpy wife in the kitchen complaining that her husband is too busy at work to spend time with the family
13
Oh, please spare me. It's about money pure and simple. And if more women want to join the Hollywood Boys Club they have to enter the locker room as well.
Might there be a connection between sexual assault on campus and the rising level of porno-light in films and TV? "See guys, don't listen to what they say. This is what they REALLY want."
Might there be a connection between sexual assault on campus and the rising level of porno-light in films and TV? "See guys, don't listen to what they say. This is what they REALLY want."
49
What has happened to the grandeur of our imagination. We live in an age of instant gratification and thus we can't take the time to let our minds create the pleasures of the sex act, the glory of the intimacy generated by said act because it requires thought, imagination and the utilization of our own feelings. How much easier to see the couples coupling on the screen while we munch our popcorn and satisfy our fantasies without letting ourselves participate. Sex and raunch was far more pleasing with innuendo, clever dialogue and wistful desire. Then you became enmeshed in the entirety of the seduction culminating in the climax invoked within your brain. Sex is too wonderful to be enjoyed by extrinsic means on a screen. Keep it at home in your mind as you sit in the cinema.
24
I find this all rather amusing. As a kid, my parents listened to - and at what they deemed the appropriate time, introduced me to - the comedy of Pearl Williams and Belle Barth, the latter during the early days of the LBJ administration
The thought that "There's some aspect where men are troubled by women owning their power" is ludicrous to this 62-year old with a Y chromosome. I like - among others - Sarah Silverman, Aubrey Plaza, Amy Schumer and especially Abbi Jacobson and Ilana Glazer for the same reason I like Barth, Williams, Totie Fields and Joan Rivers; they're funny.
The subjects of their humor to me don't matter....as long as they make me laugh. I don't need bunch of great brains on the subject - I'm being nice, here, Judd Apatow, Maggie Carey, et al - to tell me how I as a man react to anything because I'm part of some demographic.
When they stop being funny, I'll find others who are. Period. End of story.
The thought that "There's some aspect where men are troubled by women owning their power" is ludicrous to this 62-year old with a Y chromosome. I like - among others - Sarah Silverman, Aubrey Plaza, Amy Schumer and especially Abbi Jacobson and Ilana Glazer for the same reason I like Barth, Williams, Totie Fields and Joan Rivers; they're funny.
The subjects of their humor to me don't matter....as long as they make me laugh. I don't need bunch of great brains on the subject - I'm being nice, here, Judd Apatow, Maggie Carey, et al - to tell me how I as a man react to anything because I'm part of some demographic.
When they stop being funny, I'll find others who are. Period. End of story.
20
The line from Frankie Shaw, " I am allowed to say sex isn't over until I have an orgasm" is a statement I would like to see published everywhere. Nothing will stanch the male adolescent flow of uncontrolled libido like the concept that men might actually have to take women's satisfaction into account. It may even give some men the headache excuse to escape all that effort to please.
9
Patricia Arquette almost stole the Oscars with her equal pay manifesto.
If women push for equality, not only in pay but in all of the content in films, then by all means go for it.
I bet that us males have been making a majority of females cringe when seeing a film and scene from a males point of view. Having it come from a females point of view is now making some males cringe with the same feeling of "Oh MY!"
My take on all this is, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander too!
If women push for equality, not only in pay but in all of the content in films, then by all means go for it.
I bet that us males have been making a majority of females cringe when seeing a film and scene from a males point of view. Having it come from a females point of view is now making some males cringe with the same feeling of "Oh MY!"
My take on all this is, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander too!
19
This essay re affirms why I don't watch TV or go to new movies much. I really don't care what consensual adults want to do with each other (or by themselves) but I don't need it to be a big part of what I watch. I'm sorry, but the classic movies got it right..very little or no 4 letter language and the sex was suggested. Another commentor wrote that this new so called female empowerment is a "race to the bottom" I completely agree.
44
American women becoming forthright about sexuality? First, It's about time. Second, Big dear. They should go back to China's Wei Hui "Shanghai Baby," published 1999) and the wave of Chinese woman writers who "came" after her, and learn about what it is to be a real woman.
1
This column could have been written during the era of Rona Jaffe's The Best of Everything, Erica Jong's Fear of Flying, Mary McCarthy's The Group, Madonna's Sex, or the original book "50 Shades of Grey" — not to mention the ür-trashy women's book "Valley of the Dolls." I limit my list to books because until recently women didn't direct many studio films or create TV programs.
I'm not seeing what's new or especially daring among the works Dowd discusses. In fact, one quick, simple side glance from Catherine Deneuve in 1967's Belle du Jour would make any one of these women look like prudes by comparison.
I'm not seeing what's new or especially daring among the works Dowd discusses. In fact, one quick, simple side glance from Catherine Deneuve in 1967's Belle du Jour would make any one of these women look like prudes by comparison.
13
Is this supposed to make me feel good about womanhood today? If so, it failed. Sad that whatever talents these women have can't be put to better use.
34
I always find it ironic that some women complain about the way men behave and then call taking on the same behavior as liberating — so is it the act itself or the gender of the perpetrator?
It's the unfortunate trend in comedy that most of the punchlines involve body fluids or genitals. (I once timed a Sarah Silverman special and found she managed to mention one or both every 60 - 90 seconds — and she's really funny without the potty mouth.)
All of this in the name of realism? Maybe if you're a 14 year— which appears the target market for most of this stuff.
Look, I enjoy nontraditional sexual positions as much as anybody. My major complaint is creative — this fixation on the "nether ya-ya" in all it's forms makes the comedy all to predictable. Somewhere along the line "being shocking" replaced "being funny" as the end game....although now that everyone it there to shock, shocking ain't so shocking — though most of it appears to smell funny.
Creativity thrives within a structure — taking away the easy out of the pelvic region forces better writing. The best written and groundbreaking comedy on TV is Modern Family—it's funny and it deals with social issues, blended families, adoption, marriage, raising kids, you know, the parts of life you can only read about if you spent most of your time sitting on the toilet.
Th bright side is that nobody is forced to tune in or buy a ticket —there's always something else to watch.
It's the unfortunate trend in comedy that most of the punchlines involve body fluids or genitals. (I once timed a Sarah Silverman special and found she managed to mention one or both every 60 - 90 seconds — and she's really funny without the potty mouth.)
All of this in the name of realism? Maybe if you're a 14 year— which appears the target market for most of this stuff.
Look, I enjoy nontraditional sexual positions as much as anybody. My major complaint is creative — this fixation on the "nether ya-ya" in all it's forms makes the comedy all to predictable. Somewhere along the line "being shocking" replaced "being funny" as the end game....although now that everyone it there to shock, shocking ain't so shocking — though most of it appears to smell funny.
Creativity thrives within a structure — taking away the easy out of the pelvic region forces better writing. The best written and groundbreaking comedy on TV is Modern Family—it's funny and it deals with social issues, blended families, adoption, marriage, raising kids, you know, the parts of life you can only read about if you spent most of your time sitting on the toilet.
Th bright side is that nobody is forced to tune in or buy a ticket —there's always something else to watch.
9
From Slutty Kay to Smutty Ray. Way to go, film industry. Gender equality is amazing. Things have changed a bit since Tony Curtis appeared in that soft-core comedy taking place in 18th century France from three decades ago or more. He laughed his way through every scene. Somehow things are much more serious now.
Maybe I'd better just stick to watching films about eternally loyal or reformed bad dogs.
Maybe I'd better just stick to watching films about eternally loyal or reformed bad dogs.
6
Norman Mailer foretold shifts in art when he said his was the first generation of women in all history that could prevent pregnancy during love-making with a male. He argued that throughout history, sex was fraught with fears of birth's physical suffering and death (and spiritual and economic costs) for the woman. The pill, he said, would end ancient power relations between the sexes, and everything between man and woman would chang in and out of bed. Floors, bottles, batteries, and wilder leaps.to fun, always secretly desired and practiced by some women, were there for the investigation of all. Life would be safer and sillier -- and free-er The pill was taking women where "no [one] or fewer, at least, had gone before", often enough. Women also had help from D.H. Lawrence, Anais Nin, enlightened laws on earnings, child care, and contraception -- Mailer probability felt trepidation at the power-shift even while accepting its inevitability. Jerry Falwell, the anti-ObamaCare nutbars, and their peers missed the wave of history. For other males, it until it rolled over them in bed and book. Women's adventurous sexuality is here to stay. And the secret deliciousness of a Bergman glance or a Bette Davis cutting remark now have analogues in our fictive beds, as women try a little wilder gesture or two.Thelma and Louise: meet Superwoman. And old guys: learn some surprising answers to what Freud asked on his deathbed,, "What do women want". It's what Mom deserved.
4
Appears to be a bunch of movies to miss.
32
First of all I do think a lot of this is possible because the comics are attractive. Unfortunately, I dont think much of this would fly if the woman was fat and/or ugly because men wouldnt be interested.
About the raunch, I do find it unappealing but what its doing is taking women off the pedestal. Its the opposite of objectification--real women doing real things. And if it takes a diarrhea scene so be it.
About the raunch, I do find it unappealing but what its doing is taking women off the pedestal. Its the opposite of objectification--real women doing real things. And if it takes a diarrhea scene so be it.
3
Thanks for the reminder of why we watch European shows and movies. Even when they are "frank", they are both by and about adults.
19
Who says that men do not have pretty mouths and pretty faces to match their pretty dirty words?
Muhammad Ali vs. Maureen Dowd.
Bonobo vs, Chimpanzee v. Human.
Barack vs. Hillary.
What kind of dirty words came from the pretty powerful mouths of the likes of Hatshepsut, Boudica, Catherine, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Victoria or the female heads of state/government in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Philippines, Germany, Brazil , Australia, Ireland or the U.K?
Muhammad Ali vs. Maureen Dowd.
Bonobo vs, Chimpanzee v. Human.
Barack vs. Hillary.
What kind of dirty words came from the pretty powerful mouths of the likes of Hatshepsut, Boudica, Catherine, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Victoria or the female heads of state/government in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Philippines, Germany, Brazil , Australia, Ireland or the U.K?
Im surprised if this story is about women why does the following paragraph "Maggie Carey, the writer and director of the risque 2013 Aubrey Plaza teenage comedy, “The To Do List,” and a former improv comedienne who is married to the comedian Bill Hader, agreed. ....
have to name who Maggie Carey is married to??? why does this matter in this sense. Women do not need to be identified by who they are married to. COME ON GET IT TOGETHER
have to name who Maggie Carey is married to??? why does this matter in this sense. Women do not need to be identified by who they are married to. COME ON GET IT TOGETHER
7
I guess this is a race to determine just how coarse our culture can be? It strikes me that while we are in an existential battle with an evil that seeks to destroy Western civilization that we are not helping ourselves with our fascination for raunchy entertainment. I think I will go take a shower.
29
Maybe "porn power" should be our new national motto.
6
What? We're not all sugar and spice and everything nice? Who knew?
4
Maureen, my mother used to tell the story of how she was married first out of the three girls. And, when she arrived home after the honeymoon, her sisters (one older, the other younger) wanted to know all of the details. But, my mother claimed to have stayed mum, and she used this as a teaching moment for her daughters ----- "never give away your secrets!" I think the girls in your article might be wise to heed her advice!
15
With her well-written account and logic presented, Maureen Dowd presents the question from the woman's perspective. Folks, this is the perspective that matters. Half the human race and more will get it. Women decide. Some men care. As the grandparents of five young women, brilliant and beautiful, healthy and vigorous, creative and just amazingly attractive, we see it from the distance. Expectations do not rule in our family, but the world Maureen sp aptly describes is something else. Our five grandsons are gentlemen. Their sisters and cousins are well raised young ladies. And all are adorable.
We look to a world where the question will be different. It's not about the gut litmus issues of female vs. male, gender stuff, preferences. It's about life and living, education and emancipation.. and it was never about color. Our do not see color. More than one has reached across that line.
Nor are ours addicted. No compulsive sexual stuff here, no show and tell, and TV and cable are not on the menu. Games are investments, made to profit, but addictive to earn, and well avoided. Rather like tobacco.. though not quite as evil.
Maureen Dowd tees up the facts, but not all the facts. There are many that require no watering of life's most precious event, the one that resembles no other, the one that can express the best feeling in the world.
We feel for Bill Clinton, and I offered. We feel and have for others. There are many ways to offer. This model is complex. Transference is hard.
We look to a world where the question will be different. It's not about the gut litmus issues of female vs. male, gender stuff, preferences. It's about life and living, education and emancipation.. and it was never about color. Our do not see color. More than one has reached across that line.
Nor are ours addicted. No compulsive sexual stuff here, no show and tell, and TV and cable are not on the menu. Games are investments, made to profit, but addictive to earn, and well avoided. Rather like tobacco.. though not quite as evil.
Maureen Dowd tees up the facts, but not all the facts. There are many that require no watering of life's most precious event, the one that resembles no other, the one that can express the best feeling in the world.
We feel for Bill Clinton, and I offered. We feel and have for others. There are many ways to offer. This model is complex. Transference is hard.
1
OK, we've got movies that 'prove' women know all the dirty words too. Apparently a revelation for those who haven't caught Sarah Silverman's cabaret act.... Mostly what's 'proven' is as someone wise, probably a woman, said some time ago: "The most important sex organ in the human body is the brain."
19
This is all an off shoot of a bazillion cable channels and internet outlets that can cater to any interest. We now have as many hours of shows that talk about sports than there are hours of sports. I have even seen shows that talk about the people who talk about sports. We are the nation of "50 Shades of Grey", but we are also the nation of "Here comes Honey Boo Boo". So what does that say? I have one question - When do people have time to watch all this content?
4
I am impressed by the amount of research Ms. Dowd seems to have put into writing this column. I'm also a little concerned by the amount of research she seems to have put into this.
12
And, this is why Jerry Seinfeld is my favorite comedian. He works for the laugh, doesn't resort to the crude, vulgar, "easy" laugh. He works for it.
Crude does not equal funny. Crude is just desperate and pathetic. Ladies, show that you're better than this.
Crude does not equal funny. Crude is just desperate and pathetic. Ladies, show that you're better than this.
31
The sex scenes do not bother me but I am sick and tired of being invited to spend time with these actors in the bathroom. They are being demeaned in the most awful way by agreeing to do these scenes.
7
The saddest thing with this issue of raunch is that it clearly represents our inability to be entertained by thought provoking and intellectually stimulating movies, film and television. We gleefully watch viral videos that showcase people's public humiliation. We spend hours upon hours playing video games that disconnect us from reality. It's very sad indeed, and I don't see anything that suggests we will turn this around anytime soon.
114
Mrs. Pat Cambell, English actress in 1800s London, said in so many words concerning sexual habits that she didn't care what people did as long as they didn't scare the horses in the street. Well, the horses must be terrified.
15
It is tiring that "women's lib" has become emulating stereotypically male behaviour.
Can we just agree that people are people and sex is sex, and start using our minds? Please.
Can we just agree that people are people and sex is sex, and start using our minds? Please.
19
You are simply strengthening my decision to not watch television. As result I've been reading good novels more, I'm more physically active, and I think my life is better for it.
Ms Dowd, your column is irrelevant.
Ms Dowd, your column is irrelevant.
19
I had hoped that more women in the film and tv industry would raise the standards. Guess this column is just another disappointment in life for me.
21
Imagination will trump "reality" almost every time.
9
I'm glad I'm in my 60s. I can remember when girls didn't cut you off on the highway, give you the finger, read and text while they were driving. Lots of luck, guys
12
Sad. When women become like men, we are all pigs.
31
What is worse is women hauling off and throwing a punch at some man in many of these movies or TV shows. Violence straight up. What is the message?
4
Evidently one can be damaged for life by early training to the effect that sex for fun is inherently evil.
4
My major problem with all of this is that it's become cliched and hence boring.
24
I am a liberal, left-leaning, educated woman who has lived her life. God knows I've been no angel, but I could barely finish this article it was so disgusting! Do women really think that by lowering themselves to this level they'll gain any type of respect or recognition? Is this 'being like the boys"? Because I personally don't know any men who speak like this. Women need to gain respect through education and hard work, not by being pigs and acting like frat boys. Movies like "Bridesmaids" are frankly gross (they show it over and over again at my beauty parlor because I would never pay money to watch that), and are an unfortunate sign of the dumbing down of America.
56
Dear Ms. Dowd,
I freely admit that I didn't read your entire column. I made it to the 3rd paragraph then realized I had not seen:
a. Sex and the City
b. Knocked Up
c. Superbad
d. Bridesmaids
I guess I just fell off of that old Bell Shaped Curve and any relevance I might have to what you're writing about is gone.
Women use "foul language" is a revelation to some? Try cutting a woman off in rush hour traffic. Brutal, I tell ya', brutal!
I freely admit that I didn't read your entire column. I made it to the 3rd paragraph then realized I had not seen:
a. Sex and the City
b. Knocked Up
c. Superbad
d. Bridesmaids
I guess I just fell off of that old Bell Shaped Curve and any relevance I might have to what you're writing about is gone.
Women use "foul language" is a revelation to some? Try cutting a woman off in rush hour traffic. Brutal, I tell ya', brutal!
27
Are you telling me llasa Lund (Ingrid Bergman) of Casablanca isn't the ultimate feminists? A revolutionists her husband and a bad boy her lover, both crazy in love with her. What more could a woman want?
7
Mo, the eloquence of your writing on women authors in this article has both
(1) raised the bar of journalism writing to the level of “raunchy” and
(2) lowered the limbo bar of Hollywood performance to the level of “raunchy.”
This was great writing and hilariously funny “dirty stuff!” The “shock and awe” portrait of liberated female authors adds a new dimension to feminism.
Yep, men who are “dumb testosterone tentpoles” are still trying to figure out “What do women really want?”
(1) raised the bar of journalism writing to the level of “raunchy” and
(2) lowered the limbo bar of Hollywood performance to the level of “raunchy.”
This was great writing and hilariously funny “dirty stuff!” The “shock and awe” portrait of liberated female authors adds a new dimension to feminism.
Yep, men who are “dumb testosterone tentpoles” are still trying to figure out “What do women really want?”
2
There is nothing even close about claiming woman power here. At social gatherings when I was a little girl, the mothers in my neighborhood reacted by laughing too hard when a dad told a dirty joke. Young as I was, I instinctively caught on they weren’t indicating they were one of the boys, liberated and joining the fun. It was more creepy and upsetting - they were trying desperately to win the approval of the dad who held the floor and told the joke. Worse, they laughed hardest at jokes that slammed their own looks, intelligence, speech, skills; the dumber the woman, especially if there was something off color, the harder the women present laughed. It was a form of scraping and bowing before awareness of civil and women’s rights.
The “we can do what you do, too” so-called power, described in this piece, must differentiate itself from imitation of the earthy side of human nature gone bonkers and speak true woman power in the arts and entertainment field. If little girls have this innate knowledge, certainly grown women had it all along.
The “we can do what you do, too” so-called power, described in this piece, must differentiate itself from imitation of the earthy side of human nature gone bonkers and speak true woman power in the arts and entertainment field. If little girls have this innate knowledge, certainly grown women had it all along.
18
What you describe is called identification with the oppressor. It is what happened to Patty Hearst. It is also called the Stockholm syndrome.
10
Hey, why all the snarky comments? Maureen, the whole column was justified with the expression "testosterone tent poles"....I laughed out loud, and the rest of the piece gained relevance from the infantile sensibility captured perfectly in that overused cinemagraphic gimmic. The point MD is making is that the bleeding edge of female-generated plot lines are enjoying the same raunchy scripting as the horny millennial guys. So, let's see where it goes. No harm in letting girls going wild behind the camera...for a change.
14
I don't agree Stephanie Wood. Our kids and grandkids are absorbing daily this info as ok'd by their culture, i.e., the secure world they live in. They do not have your adult perspective on what a hoot this is. I have seen very few snarky comments here at all, Most commenters are intelligent and concerned with women's values and rights.
12
I think INTIMACY should be just that !
3
You've come a long way, baby.
2
This is, clearly, a huge step forward by, and for, women.
1
Yeah, that's what To Kill a Mockingbird lacked, a lurid sex scene. Oh, and Kramer Versus Kramer, likewise Twelve Angry Men, High Noon, Serpico and of course, The Ten Commandments.
23
And here's Cole Porter on the subject, talking about it with frankness AND style, and reminding us that for all of our technology and liberties we seem as a culture to be getting dumber by the day:
They say that bears have love affairs
And even camels
We're merely mammals
Let's misbehave!!!
Now listen, Hon, a little fun
Would be attractive
While we're still active,
Let's misbehave!
They say that Spring
means just one thing to little lovebirds
We're not above birds
Let's misbehave!!!
They say that bears have love affairs
And even camels
We're merely mammals
Let's misbehave!!!
Now listen, Hon, a little fun
Would be attractive
While we're still active,
Let's misbehave!
They say that Spring
means just one thing to little lovebirds
We're not above birds
Let's misbehave!!!
6
Sex on the big screen has become boring and repetitive.
21
If we've reached the point where Mr. Apatow is being lauded then there really is no hope for civilization.
Most of what's described here as "liberating" by him and others isn't just boring, it's disgusting for the sake of being so...nothing more. Many of the people mentioned herein aren't funny and have nothing to say. That's why they turn to sex to get a laugh. But there's a difference between laughing at something that's funny and laughing at something that's embarrassing or gross. Mr. Apatow, Ms. Schumer, especially Ms. McCarthy and others don't recognize that They don't have anything really funny to say, and they have no stories to tell.
And please don't complain about women not getting enough chances to succeed in Hollywood. You just lost the head of Sony Pictures for being as gross and impertinent as any man could be.
Most of what's described here as "liberating" by him and others isn't just boring, it's disgusting for the sake of being so...nothing more. Many of the people mentioned herein aren't funny and have nothing to say. That's why they turn to sex to get a laugh. But there's a difference between laughing at something that's funny and laughing at something that's embarrassing or gross. Mr. Apatow, Ms. Schumer, especially Ms. McCarthy and others don't recognize that They don't have anything really funny to say, and they have no stories to tell.
And please don't complain about women not getting enough chances to succeed in Hollywood. You just lost the head of Sony Pictures for being as gross and impertinent as any man could be.
18
I find it disturbing that a woman, mother, wants to have sex with her boyfriend in the same bed as her sleeping toddler!!! There is such a thing as "boundaries" and our society is sorely lacking in appropriate behavior and boundaries. The Roman Empire fell because of moral corruption from within; we need not have any fear of "terrorists" we will fall without any help from them!!!
16
Actually, if a mother had sex her companion in bed with her toddler sleeping there, it would be cause for a child protection investigation. If it happened in real life, we would approve the investigation.
13
While women all across the globe continued to be raped, beaten, trafficked, mutilated and murdered, in some cases, by their own fathers and brothers, this column leaves me cold.
Try as I may, if M. Dowd believes that women acting as vulgar, witless and idiotic as their Hollywood male counterparts is cause for celebration, then we, as a culture, are in bigger trouble than I thought we were.
Try as I may, if M. Dowd believes that women acting as vulgar, witless and idiotic as their Hollywood male counterparts is cause for celebration, then we, as a culture, are in bigger trouble than I thought we were.
56
Aha, so that's what this world needs more of -- not faith, hope, and charity, but more feminist-approved raunch!
24
Call me old fashioned but, I don't think sex is over until she has an orgasm either. It's often purely selfish otherwise.
- a guy
- a guy
6
You lost my interest after "Bridesmaids"…..whether the men or women bring the raunch they sound like silly/boring movies that are not worth the worry.
11
Bridget, You should really give Bridesmaids a look...it is one of the funniest movies I've ever seen and I don't get why anyone would think it's raunchy. Plus the women are amazing in their roles and it tells a true story of loss and healing.
1
It's a mark of having "arrived" that an out group can be just as silly and disgusting as the in group. Not a great marker, but a marker nonetheless.
52
If you want to see the plumbing, go look at RedTube or PornHub. Otherwise, why worry about any of this. Put up or shut up.
An aside -- I think the sex scenes on "Girls" make the whole business look miserable -- the way these people mate is more akin to what bugs, or porcupines, do. They're up against the windowsill, and it's over in seconds!
An aside -- I think the sex scenes on "Girls" make the whole business look miserable -- the way these people mate is more akin to what bugs, or porcupines, do. They're up against the windowsill, and it's over in seconds!
10
It isn't everyday that one is able to apply the term grotesque to behavior that is obviously flaunting and that can only be classified as seeking attention .... desperately.
So Harriet Highschool has now trotted herself out to join Harry Highschool, and we know how brazenly stupid he can be.
The ability to be subtle is a hall mark of maturity as is also a consideration for the feelings and sensitivities of other persons. I believe it is called civilized behavior in the grand scheme of things - such as life in general.
Oh well, the culture in general is well on its way to ......... nowhere, for want of a better word. Somehow "shoddy" isn't a word strong enough - nor is "trash" for that matter. So back to grotesque.
One has to wonder how far it will all go before it becomes absolutely far too far.
So Harriet Highschool has now trotted herself out to join Harry Highschool, and we know how brazenly stupid he can be.
The ability to be subtle is a hall mark of maturity as is also a consideration for the feelings and sensitivities of other persons. I believe it is called civilized behavior in the grand scheme of things - such as life in general.
Oh well, the culture in general is well on its way to ......... nowhere, for want of a better word. Somehow "shoddy" isn't a word strong enough - nor is "trash" for that matter. So back to grotesque.
One has to wonder how far it will all go before it becomes absolutely far too far.
10
COMMENT from readers will spell out the narrow reaction of Times lovers. Some will express joy, others horror.
What none will contemplate is children's well-being.
Maureen Dowd may not be a mother. We are parents and grandparents. We have dealt with the issues of compulsive or obsessive sexuality in the addicted.
It is not pretty and has nothing to do with well-being.
We have watched as Bill Clinton tortured himself and the nation.
Do we need all this? Simply because they can, must they?
Must they do it on camera?
Is this what we want for our children?
What none will contemplate is children's well-being.
Maureen Dowd may not be a mother. We are parents and grandparents. We have dealt with the issues of compulsive or obsessive sexuality in the addicted.
It is not pretty and has nothing to do with well-being.
We have watched as Bill Clinton tortured himself and the nation.
Do we need all this? Simply because they can, must they?
Must they do it on camera?
Is this what we want for our children?
17
I think this column was much longer than the usual and it took a long time to discover where Ms. Dowd was going with it. Thanks for reminding me that I don't need to bother seeing these TV shows and movies (I saw Bridesmaids and was not too amused). Honestly, I preferred Sex & the City.
6
If this column had been about women using the common four letter vulgarities, the title should have been "Dirty Words From Potty Mouths!"
2
So then, for dirt and hammering give me all the home remodeling shows, do it yourself home and landscaping shows that are not actually a big bore waste of time as the shows mentioned here. It's not liberating or interesting to see women or men discuss or act in a raunchy way, after all it IS acting, and if you really need to see that there's plenty of people out on the streets who will fit the bill, just make sure you know how to defend yourself.
7
When all of the 'raunchiness' is finally played out and no longer shocking, can they then get back to the difficult art of making a good movie?
53
I am afraid that is a lost cause. I've seen little of value for decades.
5
having sex in the same bed as a sleeping toddler is child abuse. A woman who would do this either needs to never have had a baby; get her tubes tied so she does not have any more; or if she does this with regularity, have the child taken away from her. That is just sick, and that H'wood would glorify this is sicker still. Life is not a lark to be made silly or light-- these people need to grow up.
30
maybe one could think of it as breaking through the CRASS ceiling. Sex sells, men have been selling it for millennia . the problem is that women have lost the battle to be women and so the only thing lest is to be like men. They wear boots and tutus, they are all" tatted" up rather than tarted up, the fashions except for high-brow couture are based on men's clothing, you know, boyfriend this or that, men-inspired women's yada yada yada, they wear baseball caps when ther are perfectly good women's hats available--imagine Bella Abzug in a baseball cap?
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em seems to be the in thing now. Too bad. we still won't really know what women are all about because they have taken on the foul-mouthed crusaders cape. I guess the next thing will be a print magazine with naked men and the editor will be Huge Heffer with curvy curves.
If you can't beat 'em, join 'em seems to be the in thing now. Too bad. we still won't really know what women are all about because they have taken on the foul-mouthed crusaders cape. I guess the next thing will be a print magazine with naked men and the editor will be Huge Heffer with curvy curves.
8
Dunham and her ilk should be congratulated,not diminished for writing material that is honest in depicting the lives and issues of the groups they are familiar with.The issue with Sex and the City was that ,for many of us,it was as much about negative female stereotypes (self indulgent,shoes and handbags etc).as it was about sex.The shows Maureen writes about reflect current reality whether we like it or not.They are neither about feminism nor about "the Real Housewives of ...")
2
Gross, disgusting and raunchy is not being forthright about sexuality. Its being gross, raunchy and disgusting for money. Sorry ladies but these films don't cover you with honor.
40
I remember watching the first season of The Drew Carey Show and finding it laugh-out-loud funny. The second season...not so much. The third season...not at all, so they switched to vulgar. It's hard to be funny. It's much easier to be vulgar and raunchy and hope viewers confuse shocking with funny. I know I'm getting old, but I don't think I'm getting stupid.
23
I had the same reaction to Two and a Half Men.
5
Kim Peirce's "Boys Don't Cry" (1999) won an Oscar and Golden Globe" for its honest and forthright depiction of sexuality by women sixteen years ago. Omission of any reference to that work in this piece seems to speak volumes about Maureen Dowd's consciousness in ways this avid fan of hers wishes it did not.
5
Well, isn't this par for the course for the NYT. Anything done by women no matter how obscene or stupid is empowering and any criticism of anything a woman does is repression. It is funny that they dedicate so much attention to making women equals yet do not see the irony in holding women to a lower standard.
I suppose this is what you get when your civilization holds no values other than generic "freedom" with any regard
I suppose this is what you get when your civilization holds no values other than generic "freedom" with any regard
16
Okay, Maureen, what should we tell our daughters and granddaughters, and when should we tell them. Do you give the class? Or should we simply guide them to the nearest media outlet and let it fly?
Tell us, Maureen, what do you suggest... is best for the young girl today?
And what should we explain to the rest of the planet about Bill Clinton?
Tell us, Maureen, what do you suggest... is best for the young girl today?
And what should we explain to the rest of the planet about Bill Clinton?
6
"It’s in the zeitgeist because there’s a bunch of female writers and creators now, and, by a bunch, I mean, like, four."
Exactly, this is the problem. We need more than four women writers. With a full and proper range of female voices, I'm quite sure sex would be only one of the subjects they write about, taboo or otherwise. War, politics, ambition... all the many, many other things in life that do not center on the opposite sex.
Women writing about sex is only in a squinting view a step toward equality. Just as Cummings acknowledges, it simply falls in line with what men want to think about women.
Exactly, this is the problem. We need more than four women writers. With a full and proper range of female voices, I'm quite sure sex would be only one of the subjects they write about, taboo or otherwise. War, politics, ambition... all the many, many other things in life that do not center on the opposite sex.
Women writing about sex is only in a squinting view a step toward equality. Just as Cummings acknowledges, it simply falls in line with what men want to think about women.
71
It appears that absurdly vulgar "entertainment" is gender neutral.
14
That's a long way of saying women want fart jokes too
1
A certain sliver of the population is demonstrating that women and men can be equally vapid. It ain't news.
16
I don't know what Whitney Cummings means by "a deviant sex act." These acts are what normal women and men do; thanks to the creative people here, we're finally being honest about it in mass media.
3
I haven't watched any of the shows. Just reading about them in this column, I feel asexual. Reading broadens horizons for better or for worse.
6
Gemli's comment reminded me of Joni Mitchells "Playing real good for free". The insight and its delivery seem to eclipse the original article
1
i'd be overjoyed if gemli took over this op-ed space. he has a vibrant intellect and fresh insight, and i always love reading his comments.
2
Oh man, oh boy. Bring on The Second Best Exotic Marigold Hotel! Enough already with everybody's nether parts and libidos, guns and humping and mayhem. War and torture, beheading, the endless night of cruelty and self--enough. Enough.
26
"When a guy writes a scene where a woman does a deviant sex act on camera, it’s objectifying. But when a woman writes it, it’s feminism" Huh? I disagree. I do not consider these women Writers to be feminists. They are dishonest, vulgar & unoriginal. They are merely copying the raunchy crassness of the juvenile male culture. There is nothing honest or sexy or shocking about it, and there is certainly nothing feminist there either.
41
Check out Sunday in New York, 1963, featuring Jane Fonda.
1
The actual dirty little secret is that the raunchier, dirtier, more lascivious the dialogue, the better it SELLS, and the fact that it sells so well speaks to the true motives of those who produce these films & shows. So celebrate "raunchy" all you want but please, don't try to flaunt it and portray it as some kind of wonderful cultural statement for women as in, "Hey boys, look at me, I can talk as dirty as you guys can!" Yeah right, that's definitely adding something to our culture of daughters, sisters & mothers.
228
I would also say that the fact that this stuff sells so well says a lot about the people who feel they need to watch these shows.
5
This just appears to be another part of the race to the bottom in the "entertainment" industry. aiding and abetting the race to the bottom of the public's taste.
106
I agree. It won't be too much longer until they start showing all the female masterbation too...
1
Let me raise the intellectual bar here:
"He [Apatow] pitched the nervous screenwriters on the idea of the now famous fart-and-poop scene where the women are hit with an epic blast of food-poisoning while trying on gowns at a fancy shop."
I hate to say it, but that was the funniest scene in the movie--crass, male humor.
"He [Apatow] pitched the nervous screenwriters on the idea of the now famous fart-and-poop scene where the women are hit with an epic blast of food-poisoning while trying on gowns at a fancy shop."
I hate to say it, but that was the funniest scene in the movie--crass, male humor.
4
Ick. I'm not convinced that raunchy sex acts on screen have anything to do with promoting a feminist agenda. Couldn't we just get back to demanding equal pay for equal work?
125
We're still in a period of transition. The Puritan ethic is not completely gone. We still have folks hanging on to the past, and waves of new immigrants bring their cultural taboo's with them. In some women are second rate citizens.
However there are certain behaviors that are universal and endemic to human nature. With that in mind, I would suspect a writer or producer need only go to a drunk and stoned, teenage, party virtually anywhere in the USA, to gather a plethora of ideas for sexually oriented media productions. One could easily create a new series- "The Odd Sex Show".
However there are certain behaviors that are universal and endemic to human nature. With that in mind, I would suspect a writer or producer need only go to a drunk and stoned, teenage, party virtually anywhere in the USA, to gather a plethora of ideas for sexually oriented media productions. One could easily create a new series- "The Odd Sex Show".
4
I love Broad City. And a friend noted that there was a pretty popular play called
The Vagina Monologues but it is unlikely that we will ever see a play called The Penis Monologues. I am not sure what that means but it was very fun seeing Abbi in Broad City walking around with that fake penis strapped to her. I haven't seen the other shows listed but to me there is a sweet goofiness about Broad City that seems sort of innocent. The humor at times just seems like old fashioned slapstick and I love it.
The Vagina Monologues but it is unlikely that we will ever see a play called The Penis Monologues. I am not sure what that means but it was very fun seeing Abbi in Broad City walking around with that fake penis strapped to her. I haven't seen the other shows listed but to me there is a sweet goofiness about Broad City that seems sort of innocent. The humor at times just seems like old fashioned slapstick and I love it.
3
Actually, there was a Puppetry of the Penis, Penis Chronicles, and, yes, The Penis Monologues, among many others, although none of them really went anywhere — more because they weren't particularly good than because of the subject matter.
1
OK, so we can now see varieties of sex that we didn't see before...and here are several thousand words of explanation and self-congratulation.
But regardless of how one feels about sex (or about explanations), isn't sex in movies usually at least a little boring?
But regardless of how one feels about sex (or about explanations), isn't sex in movies usually at least a little boring?
7
A new trend in so-called honesty perhaps, but by European standards, this is just old news. Women are still discovering who they are and avidly reading up on who they should be. Or think they should be. Or think their men think they should be. How many would go openly into a shop selling sex toys? About the time they are advertized widely in major women's magazines.
5
I am of European descent and have lived in Europe more than half my life, and yes, Europeans are more open about sex, but not in a disgusting and crass way. Americans don't know where to draw the line. They are either prudes or pigs. No in-between.
9
Exactly right. I also get the feeling women are waiting to be told what they should think about sex and what to do. Hence the changing attitudes of women about sex through time, its clearly culturally influenced. Im not sure mens attitude towards sex has changed much in oh, the past two hundred thousand years.
1
Just put porn on the airwaves. It's what is what people want and sells the best. Aren't we heading in that direction anyway. Just cut to the chase already.
21
So now women writers, artists, and producers have lost the art of subtlety. So, really, what then is equality worth?
36
>
Eros could care less how sperm finds the egg just as long as it finds it. Since the very first emergence of life on earth, Eros has overcome with multiple tactics all obstacles set down before it.
“In no other case does Eros so clearly betray the core of his being, his purpose of making many out of one; but when he has achieved this in the proverbial way through the love of two human beings, he refuses to go further."
Sigmund Freud 1939
Civilization and Its Discontents
Eros could care less how sperm finds the egg just as long as it finds it. Since the very first emergence of life on earth, Eros has overcome with multiple tactics all obstacles set down before it.
“In no other case does Eros so clearly betray the core of his being, his purpose of making many out of one; but when he has achieved this in the proverbial way through the love of two human beings, he refuses to go further."
Sigmund Freud 1939
Civilization and Its Discontents
5
We're not talking about Eros, here--just common, trashy smut.
9
Comp.
It's all relational.
It's all relational.
What about the sanctity of the sex act?
Why would we want to denigrate the experience by talking bawdily about it?
The sex act has to be one of the most personal experiences available, and it
isn't about being old-fashioned or unfeminine to not want to talk about it but because it's private business!
Why would we want to denigrate the experience by talking bawdily about it?
The sex act has to be one of the most personal experiences available, and it
isn't about being old-fashioned or unfeminine to not want to talk about it but because it's private business!
37
Actually it is no longer private business or as one writer put it, "it is just like shaking hands. "
3
Call me a prude, but I couldn't even finish the column that simply described the scenes, much less see them on film.
Let's face it, sex (and violence) sells. Look at the small revenues for intellectual movies. It's all a part of the dumbing down of America.
The solution is for the entertainment industry to stop making so much trash and more films that force one to think. Ah, as some brilliant philosopher is prone to say...."If candy and nuts......"
Let's face it, sex (and violence) sells. Look at the small revenues for intellectual movies. It's all a part of the dumbing down of America.
The solution is for the entertainment industry to stop making so much trash and more films that force one to think. Ah, as some brilliant philosopher is prone to say...."If candy and nuts......"
97
Women enjoying sex is a good thing, and frankness goes with that. The alternative is one we read about with increasing frequency in the NYT: women who are turned off, unable to talk about sex, or enjoy it in marriage.
First, get the dirty words flowing. Then, make sure that the women given a platform for saying them aren't all the same type: young, white and Hollywood (as they are on TV) or mommy bloggers.
A dialogue is overdue, even if it's one in which most people will claim to be uninterested, uninspired, and bored. This will of course be nonsense, because they will continue responding in droves to articles like "Why the best sex is extramarital" and anything about "50 Shades of Grey."
Sex is a great topic, but most of us don't talk about it very well (or, apparently, do it). We could all learn by having less predictable conversations about it. And yes, truthful doesn't always mean raunchy.
First, get the dirty words flowing. Then, make sure that the women given a platform for saying them aren't all the same type: young, white and Hollywood (as they are on TV) or mommy bloggers.
A dialogue is overdue, even if it's one in which most people will claim to be uninterested, uninspired, and bored. This will of course be nonsense, because they will continue responding in droves to articles like "Why the best sex is extramarital" and anything about "50 Shades of Grey."
Sex is a great topic, but most of us don't talk about it very well (or, apparently, do it). We could all learn by having less predictable conversations about it. And yes, truthful doesn't always mean raunchy.
27
"Women enjoying sex is a good thing, and frankness goes with that. The alternative is one we read about with increasing frequency in the NYT: women who are turned off, unable to talk about sex, or enjoy it in marriage."
Has it at all occurred to anyone that the reason a lot of people don't enjoy sex is because they're so jaded by the constant barrage of sexual images and TMI of our culture?
Has it at all occurred to anyone that the reason a lot of people don't enjoy sex is because they're so jaded by the constant barrage of sexual images and TMI of our culture?
3
Fine, good point about the same types of women creating sex shows. Although, lets make it fair and balanced and require all media involving explicit sex to also show, side by side, an image of overpopulated third world children, replete with bulging stomachs from starvation, begging for food with a hopeless expression on their faces. At least then the viewer would know that the issue of sexing like ribald bunny rabbits has real and lasting consequences. Although forcing a horny viewer to think about starving children in Africa, Southeast Asia, the Appalachians or other overpopulated places doesn't add to Hollywood's bottom line.
3
Sadly, this is yesterday's news. Those frozen in time will not find meaningful relief with the pendulum swinging. It starts with a perception borne in the intellect, the informed heart, a surge of feeling that compels. With those thoughts in mind, it moves to the intellect for a sanity check. Thereafter, long after, it can move to the body and a sound, playful, thrilling response.
To get these steps wrong will assure a mess. And that is why we are seeing all these lovely films, not one of which has graced our screen. This stuff is no mystery. Common sense rules. Love drives it, and not passion. Passion follows love, and love must be clean of addiction...
To get these steps wrong will assure a mess. And that is why we are seeing all these lovely films, not one of which has graced our screen. This stuff is no mystery. Common sense rules. Love drives it, and not passion. Passion follows love, and love must be clean of addiction...
1
As if the Moral Majority didn't have enough to worry about, now people want to make women enjoying sex a mainstream idea.
This isn't a revolution, it has been going on quietly for decades, at least since I was a young man in the Sixties. The difference seems to be that women then sent "signals" which were often misinterpreted and now it's a more straightforward, honest connection. It helps boys and men from making stupid mistakes. I hope my daughter and granddaughters use this new power wisely.
This isn't a revolution, it has been going on quietly for decades, at least since I was a young man in the Sixties. The difference seems to be that women then sent "signals" which were often misinterpreted and now it's a more straightforward, honest connection. It helps boys and men from making stupid mistakes. I hope my daughter and granddaughters use this new power wisely.
2
Could I, carefully and politely, interject a little mistake that was made about the female anatomy that is related directly to the column?
I shall try.
In the dark ages (a few years ago), it was believed that women didn't like sex and didn't really want it. Some viewed it as doing their husbands a big favor. The idea of women not enjoying sex hung around a long time, well into the 1970s and perhaps the '80s, too. Now, as the column indicates, we have swung in the opposite direction.
The mistake, probably encouraged by Masters and Johnson and the infamous Kinsey Report, essentially revolved around the idea that the female anatomy was poorly designed for sexual pleasure. Studies indicated that the nerve endings were all to the north while intercourse was farther south. So, you have the long hang over from Puritanism and Victorianism and a general repressive attitude combined with misinformation.
Women have something like 300,000 nerve endings in the lower erogenous zones (men have to make do with about 200,000). Recent research has moved the female nerve endings closer to the action. How did they get it wrong back then? Was it a case of research following popular prejudices? tune in to the latest cable show oriented for women to find out.
Now, women are free to go to any level, to be as crude and rude as men if they choose, even visually groping men (usually slyly) in public places. Progress. Isn't it grand?
http://terryreport.com
I shall try.
In the dark ages (a few years ago), it was believed that women didn't like sex and didn't really want it. Some viewed it as doing their husbands a big favor. The idea of women not enjoying sex hung around a long time, well into the 1970s and perhaps the '80s, too. Now, as the column indicates, we have swung in the opposite direction.
The mistake, probably encouraged by Masters and Johnson and the infamous Kinsey Report, essentially revolved around the idea that the female anatomy was poorly designed for sexual pleasure. Studies indicated that the nerve endings were all to the north while intercourse was farther south. So, you have the long hang over from Puritanism and Victorianism and a general repressive attitude combined with misinformation.
Women have something like 300,000 nerve endings in the lower erogenous zones (men have to make do with about 200,000). Recent research has moved the female nerve endings closer to the action. How did they get it wrong back then? Was it a case of research following popular prejudices? tune in to the latest cable show oriented for women to find out.
Now, women are free to go to any level, to be as crude and rude as men if they choose, even visually groping men (usually slyly) in public places. Progress. Isn't it grand?
http://terryreport.com
3
Am i the only one who feels sorry for these actors who feel they must simulate sex on screen? In today's "entertainment" environment I suppose that Julia Roberts would be expected to have such a scene with Richard Gere in Pretty Woman. Somehow I dont see how that would have furthered the purpose of the story. Halle Beery did it in Monster's Ball, and won an Oscar for it. But where is she now, career-wise? These women are fooling themselves. It's not empowering. It's gratuitous.
12
Women and girls think about sex. That's hardly a revelation, but that doesn't mean they want you to objectify or sexually assault them against their will. Soft or any other pornography created by women or men is not an open invitation to deny women and girls control over their bodies and how they engage in sex. Violence against women continues and these artistic expressions should all begin with a caveat, advising the viewer that females are not chattel, cannot be owned, or punished or forced into sexual servitude without severe legal and civil penalties. Just like the warnings on the cigarette package, there will be consequences. But without gender equity, many poor women continue to live with the realistic fears that they will not survive adolescence without being raped or impregnated. What does pornography do for them? Where is their emancipation? The Third World is all around us.
2
I don't know, but the more I read about these plots, the more bored I got. Pushing the sexual envelope in film, stage, and TV just makes me want to say ugh: enough already.
What's next? Inviting photographers into the bathroom with you? The definition of intimacy--and by implication intimate acts-- is private behavior reserved for a small audience of one (or more, if that's your thing). To assume that the world is panting to view your version of intimacy is pretty incredible.
Too many revelations are taking the mystery and intrigue out of sex. The sexiest women in history knew that hints of the unknown were far more titillating than over-sharing details.
When sex gets mechanical or played up for shock value, it ceases to be interesting. For viewers or participants alike.
What's next? Inviting photographers into the bathroom with you? The definition of intimacy--and by implication intimate acts-- is private behavior reserved for a small audience of one (or more, if that's your thing). To assume that the world is panting to view your version of intimacy is pretty incredible.
Too many revelations are taking the mystery and intrigue out of sex. The sexiest women in history knew that hints of the unknown were far more titillating than over-sharing details.
When sex gets mechanical or played up for shock value, it ceases to be interesting. For viewers or participants alike.
19
All sexual activitiy and portrayal in our media should be guided by one simple principle: To Each His Own. Love who you love and enjoy sexuality to its upmost provided it is always consensual, pleasurable and no one gets hurt, physically or emotionally.
As for Hollywood's portrayal of a new female raunchiness, the same principle holds: To each his own. And perhaps it is simply a function of age, but the new raunchy has little appeal for me. Give me the old 1930-1940 romantic comedies starrying Myra Loy and William Powell or Cary Grant and Katherine Hepburn, a bag of popcorn, a glass or two of a nice California chardonnay and I am in for a delightful evening. But if raunch is your pleasure, then cheers as well.
As for Hollywood's portrayal of a new female raunchiness, the same principle holds: To each his own. And perhaps it is simply a function of age, but the new raunchy has little appeal for me. Give me the old 1930-1940 romantic comedies starrying Myra Loy and William Powell or Cary Grant and Katherine Hepburn, a bag of popcorn, a glass or two of a nice California chardonnay and I am in for a delightful evening. But if raunch is your pleasure, then cheers as well.
8
Well, women like human sensuality....who knew? All of us who love pleasure, laughter, and play. So, the new materials are sometimes raw, raucous, and ridiculous. But, the past attitudes towards women and their sexuality has robbed both genders, including same gender couples, of pleasure. This is the time that has come and I intend to enjoy it as a 65 year old female. I will use fantasies, I will use tools, and I will engage other partners to enjoy what this live has to offer before my atoms are deployed in the galaxy for other uses.
Live, laugh, love, and be aware of human sensuality. I love it and wish others the same experiences. Due to my age, I want to enjoy all of the shades of gray.
Live, laugh, love, and be aware of human sensuality. I love it and wish others the same experiences. Due to my age, I want to enjoy all of the shades of gray.
10
Maureen Dowd knows shows we have not heard of - but her comment on female stuff is old news... to those of us that have dealt with addiction and all forms of substance abuse. The quick wipe down is actually the best of it.
Women and men can let it fly - and then watch themselves deteriorate as their libido is directed to a fantasy world that winds up and winds down... and journalist are fit company today. For a thoughtful and ethical account, read He Wanted the Moon by Mimi Baird. She worked up her insane father's notes. Manic is the end game for the hyper single women and married that think single... It's no mystery. Auto erotic works, and destroys. But there is nothing pretty about it. However, there is nothing new here. We have an aging reporter telling the truth about things that have been the case in some, certainly not all, for ages. Today, it's news. With Freud it was news. With our daughters it is not a topic of conversation - till they ask. The same for our granddaughters. What turns them on is an education in abnormal psychology and it can lead to hell in those that cannot control themselves... this is the frank truth. Dealing with those women is not pleasant, nor is the path to sanity easy. Some never make it. Meaningless repetitive is the key for understanding. Addiction is the field of endeavor. It is a minefield.
Women and men can let it fly - and then watch themselves deteriorate as their libido is directed to a fantasy world that winds up and winds down... and journalist are fit company today. For a thoughtful and ethical account, read He Wanted the Moon by Mimi Baird. She worked up her insane father's notes. Manic is the end game for the hyper single women and married that think single... It's no mystery. Auto erotic works, and destroys. But there is nothing pretty about it. However, there is nothing new here. We have an aging reporter telling the truth about things that have been the case in some, certainly not all, for ages. Today, it's news. With Freud it was news. With our daughters it is not a topic of conversation - till they ask. The same for our granddaughters. What turns them on is an education in abnormal psychology and it can lead to hell in those that cannot control themselves... this is the frank truth. Dealing with those women is not pleasant, nor is the path to sanity easy. Some never make it. Meaningless repetitive is the key for understanding. Addiction is the field of endeavor. It is a minefield.
Look, some men and women like to have more than one office door open, some don't. Some think having sex without commitment is fun and healthy, some don't. Some think that sex should only be between a man and a woman -- unless it's between a woman and a woman; some don't.
Personally, what I demand is great writing. I don't want shock and awe substituted for good writing. Bridesmaids was a perfect example of a well-written raunchy comedy. But too often, the short cut is the defecation joke, without the joke coming from someplace real. Raunch and the lowest common denominator need not co-exist.
Personally, what I demand is great writing. I don't want shock and awe substituted for good writing. Bridesmaids was a perfect example of a well-written raunchy comedy. But too often, the short cut is the defecation joke, without the joke coming from someplace real. Raunch and the lowest common denominator need not co-exist.
3
I chanced upon a scene in Sex and the City when channel surfing that apparently had something to do with the taste of semen. I have since refused to see anything in which any of the actresses involved in that show appear, as they too starkly remind me of a scene I desperately wish I could erase from memory.
And now women need to be more vulgar to prove what, that they can be as disgusting as men? Hey, fine if women wish to prove they are equal in all the positive traits, but why this? Ranks way down there with caged fighting.
And now women need to be more vulgar to prove what, that they can be as disgusting as men? Hey, fine if women wish to prove they are equal in all the positive traits, but why this? Ranks way down there with caged fighting.
23
Well, I thought Sex and the City had great music, and I loved the locale, but - I'm pretty old - I didn't watch it much because it seemed so depressing that the characters were so obsessed with men, so dependent on their relationships with them. Nothing much else seemed to matter. I didn't mind that they liked sex, it was just that their own talents and aspirations seemed so unimportant.
9
One of the greatest sex scenes in the history of movies is between Daniel Day Lewis and Madeline Stowe in The Last of the Mohicans. No clothing gets removed, and they are standing up. No contortions; no close ups of body parts; no overwrought panting, and screaming in faux ecstasy. You see nothing more then their embrace, and hear very little, but their ability to convey the intensity of their of passion makes it all very clear, and it is absolutely orgasmic. For both men and women.
But our culture isn't about subtlety, or imagination. It's in its coarseness, its banality, its obviousness. That's where the money is. And it has nothing to do with liberation or gender. It's just cheap and crude, and it debases us.
But our culture isn't about subtlety, or imagination. It's in its coarseness, its banality, its obviousness. That's where the money is. And it has nothing to do with liberation or gender. It's just cheap and crude, and it debases us.
50
So disgusted about the custodial protection provided children and youth from the porn industry, while the GOP platform (also?) portend a wholesome upbringing provided their offspring, simply by right of being a two parent family-moral superiority- while they also do next to nothing to protect kids from propaganda by law.
The societal, community and Congressional (like Hollywood) leadership is not just crude, but technically, in real outcomes, dangerous for kids and youth. It is therefore too difficult to even read this whole article (I did not), as custodial malpractice let alone misleading kids and youth to real harm, is too gross, disgusting, and the worst crime possible about which to joke.
The societal, community and Congressional (like Hollywood) leadership is not just crude, but technically, in real outcomes, dangerous for kids and youth. It is therefore too difficult to even read this whole article (I did not), as custodial malpractice let alone misleading kids and youth to real harm, is too gross, disgusting, and the worst crime possible about which to joke.
8
There may be a lot of "shock and awe" on the surface, both in the Hollywood output and the national reaction, but that's only because underneath it all we are still that puritanical nation we have always been. And, as "V" says in another comment, "it's a race to the bottom in Hollywood" where the women can now join the men who are already there. And we call that progress.
18
This column only solidifies the idea for me that talking about sex and letting it hang out really just diminishes and demystifies the whole thing, making it something so banal and boring that washing the dishes is a much more exciting prospect. Why don't these young, pretty women really revolutionize sex by giving it the respect it deserves and keeping it beautiful and nuanced? I thought the sexual revolution took place in the 60's! This is all so crass and tasteless and really not all that.
30
Last year's popular drama and comedy are not entertaining to the populace today. "Content" is the challenge for the media, and in its absence, style must substitute. Bad stories are hyped with sound effects and shouted confrontations.
In "The China Syndrome" Jack Lemon evoked drama in silence, but that's among the exceptions in directing and acting. Everything else tends towards the extreme. Cage fighting for little boys; sexy dancing and beauty pageants for little girls. More explicit sex and gorier violence are the order of the day. Hockey anyone? Football? We've trained up a lot of adrenalin junkies who need to compensate for [fill in the blanks].
In "The China Syndrome" Jack Lemon evoked drama in silence, but that's among the exceptions in directing and acting. Everything else tends towards the extreme. Cage fighting for little boys; sexy dancing and beauty pageants for little girls. More explicit sex and gorier violence are the order of the day. Hockey anyone? Football? We've trained up a lot of adrenalin junkies who need to compensate for [fill in the blanks].
7
You don't have to go back that far. Many films, such as Foxcatcher, have relatively little dialogue and rely heavily on actors' expressions to convey and further the dramatic action.
1
Hollywood, TV shows, and the film making industry have become just that: an industry, a business--not unlike the pharmaceutical industry, the payday loan industry, the junk-food industry. Make profit, grab market share, knock out the competition; hype and advertise your way to success with some product (including people, like Justin Bieber). Never mind the quality of the product; take the money and run.
Silly me, so old-fashioned and outdated. I love a great story, interesting and complicated characters, romance, a page-turner plot or a movie where I don't doze off in the dark. If you get lucky, a story that explores human relationships, human strengths and weakness, creative problem-solving (perhaps a challenging moral dilemma to grapple with), and a mix of tragedy and comedy (like life). Something to think about; maybe something that changes your thinking or attitude about life and relationships.
But hey, business is business, and the movie-TV industry long-ago decided sex sells. Keep pushing the envelope; go for it; make it raunchy, really dirty; delve into the bizarre and the kinky (where else is there to go these days?). Let's see if it is even more titillating when women "do it." Going for the lowest common denominator is the easy way to make money and acquire a quick bad boy or bad girl reputation, but ultimately it is exploitative, hollow, lonely, and sad.
Call me antique, but playing this kind of a man's game is not feminism & is no accomplishment for women
Silly me, so old-fashioned and outdated. I love a great story, interesting and complicated characters, romance, a page-turner plot or a movie where I don't doze off in the dark. If you get lucky, a story that explores human relationships, human strengths and weakness, creative problem-solving (perhaps a challenging moral dilemma to grapple with), and a mix of tragedy and comedy (like life). Something to think about; maybe something that changes your thinking or attitude about life and relationships.
But hey, business is business, and the movie-TV industry long-ago decided sex sells. Keep pushing the envelope; go for it; make it raunchy, really dirty; delve into the bizarre and the kinky (where else is there to go these days?). Let's see if it is even more titillating when women "do it." Going for the lowest common denominator is the easy way to make money and acquire a quick bad boy or bad girl reputation, but ultimately it is exploitative, hollow, lonely, and sad.
Call me antique, but playing this kind of a man's game is not feminism & is no accomplishment for women
63
Spare me!
18
Nothing wrong with upping the female "raunch factor" in film and on TV in the name of equality of the sexes and women getting as many laughs from these shows as men. However when the women or male viewers of these relatively mainstream programs take away the message that the "garden variety"of sexual relations that most of us find enjoyable and fulfilling is somehow second rate and boring, it increases the pressure, particularly on women, to "perform" to porn industry standards. From the description of these programs and films (I have seen most of the films but not the TV) I think that as a young woman or teen just getting my sexual bearings they would have made me feel "inadequate" rather than "empowered".
127
Not for the first time here, I'm forced to point out that the wild abandon regarded by many on the left as "healthy" may indeed be so for the minority of people that doesn't require fence posts to define the permissible amble-zones of the psyche; but most people do, just to function. This is why they were invented, those quaint politenesses, euphemisms and compulsions to pause before things get out of hand in mixed company. We toss them all in the dustbin of social evolution at our own risk. If we cut most people loose from these ancient inhibitions, we're going to find that we don't have enough shrinks to manage the emotional blowback.
I have more concern about men becoming raunchier than I do women, except that raunchier women will cause a lot of men to regard raunch as acceptable behavior for them; and that can be problematic -- if women believe that men can't lose it in a situation that begins with uninhibited banter and thoughtless stimulation between acquaintances, then women don't know men.
I have immense sympathy for the woman who bridles at the unfairness of this, who wishes to be treated not merely equally to men but in the same manner, which aren't equivalences. But I'll back off and regard my concerns as dated when it can be demonstrated that the typical woman can protect herself physically from the typical man.
So ... dirty words from pretty mouths offer a whole new dimension of creativity for women, but it's not an experiment that comes with no risk.
I have more concern about men becoming raunchier than I do women, except that raunchier women will cause a lot of men to regard raunch as acceptable behavior for them; and that can be problematic -- if women believe that men can't lose it in a situation that begins with uninhibited banter and thoughtless stimulation between acquaintances, then women don't know men.
I have immense sympathy for the woman who bridles at the unfairness of this, who wishes to be treated not merely equally to men but in the same manner, which aren't equivalences. But I'll back off and regard my concerns as dated when it can be demonstrated that the typical woman can protect herself physically from the typical man.
So ... dirty words from pretty mouths offer a whole new dimension of creativity for women, but it's not an experiment that comes with no risk.
19
"Wild abandon" on the 'left'. Spare me.
9
From today's Dowd article: "When Hahn and other mothers get together over red wine, one says she has masturbated for two decades to the Jodie Foster rape scene in “The Accused” and Hahn recalls a strange guy coming into her college dorm room and having sex with her, noting: “This is not a rape story. That’s what sex in college is. Nobody asks in college.”
Now, back to the news articles regarding rape on college campuses. As a grandmother, I fear for my grandsons.
News alert to young men: Don't believe what you see in movies and on TV.
Now, back to the news articles regarding rape on college campuses. As a grandmother, I fear for my grandsons.
News alert to young men: Don't believe what you see in movies and on TV.
8
Not everyone wants to hear dirty words coming out of any mouth just as not all of us are into explicit sex on screen. There was a day when intelligent dialogue and a good story could convey passion, romance, sexuality etc. on screen without resorting to the obviousness of you show me yours and I'll show you mine. We are dying a slow death due to lack of imagination and the inability to appreciate the magic of the light touch as opposed to the hammer approach to all things.
39
Seems like a waste of print space this one, Maureen. What's your point? Yes, girls have sex and like it to? It's not that we should all be above this sex stuff, but women have bigger problems, like violent rape and beatings, abandonment of children and low pay. Why not write about those things? especially the low pay part. Now that would be equalizing something of real importance!
150
I second the motion, Carolyn. "A waste of print space:" exactly my thoughts on finishing the column. That Apatow and his female imitators can flourish with their themes of poo poo/masturbatory comedy speaks volumes about our culture. Dowd needs to return to more important topics; the house is on fire while we watch porn on the TV.
21
I never thought that I would actually find depiction of sexual behavior boring, but I can't think of anything more ho-hum than most of these movies and TV shows. They have nothing subtle about their scenes. They have no imagination. IMO, Not one single actress could look at a man with the sexual intensity of Ingrid Bergman to Bogart and not move another muscle and have everyone watching feel their heart fall to THAT place. Not a single movie or a TV program has the sexual intensity of Clark Gable picking Vivian Leigh up in his arms, going up that long stairway and declaring that there would only be two in his bed that night.
That is why people who really like good movies and TV programs don't watch bad movies or TV programs that have nothing but sex to sell.
That is why people who really like good movies and TV programs don't watch bad movies or TV programs that have nothing but sex to sell.
413
Thank you, Sajwert, you speak my language. I am firmly in the ranks of those who know--not believe, know--that I am being treated with condescension and disdain by the entertainment industry's worthies who believe that any depiction of or reference to sex will entertain me. They are not required to show any wit, creativity, or subtlety--just sex, more sex, raunchier sex, and we hicks will be enthralled. There is, of course, an audience for such fare, just as there was for the peep shows of old. But society showed its judgment then by confining them to the seedier parts of town and assuming that the people who frequented them for sexual satusfaction were pathetic souls with no lives. I think that assessment was correct.
13
Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. It is sad that this stupid stuff sells and is puffed up by wanting to be with it critics. Overall it demonstrates a lack of real talent.
10
Hooray, the girls are just as vulgar as the guys.
16
Promiscuity and raunchiness, whether by men or women, are not things that should be celebrated, Ms. Dowd.
71
This too shall pass. Don't worry Maureen.
4
It shall pass--downwards.
4
Ms. Dowd:
I have always found the kind of male movie behavior you describe as juvenile and usually not very humorous. Still, it has and will continue to exist. If women want into that pool I hope they are better at it than men have shown.
The popularity of the genre (if I may be permitted to use the word in this context) speaks more to the immaturity of our culture on all matters sexual. I watched several episodes of Girls. I cannot say much for the experience. If others see value in it, let them watch. It didn't appear any dumber than its male equivalents. I have to remind myself that we are a young country. I was also a charter subscriber to Ms. magazine and am a man who appreciates a woman who admits to a lidido.
I have always found the kind of male movie behavior you describe as juvenile and usually not very humorous. Still, it has and will continue to exist. If women want into that pool I hope they are better at it than men have shown.
The popularity of the genre (if I may be permitted to use the word in this context) speaks more to the immaturity of our culture on all matters sexual. I watched several episodes of Girls. I cannot say much for the experience. If others see value in it, let them watch. It didn't appear any dumber than its male equivalents. I have to remind myself that we are a young country. I was also a charter subscriber to Ms. magazine and am a man who appreciates a woman who admits to a lidido.
20
So raunchy comedy is the next shattered glass ceiling for woman and this is aspiring? My wife and I have seen every gross out movie known to man and found many of them quite entertaining. We saw Bridesmaid with an audience of eight, my wife being the only female, and all of us laughed out loud. Funny is funny no matter its source.
Big deal. I always thought females were the adults of sexuality, leaving males with their Pavlovian slobbering to revert to such juvenile behaviors. But now there's new frontiers to cross.
Hopefully, some day the U.S. will elect a woman as president and meaningful change will come to genders around the world. Aspire to this transformation, not more of the same frivolity. "Yawn".
Big deal. I always thought females were the adults of sexuality, leaving males with their Pavlovian slobbering to revert to such juvenile behaviors. But now there's new frontiers to cross.
Hopefully, some day the U.S. will elect a woman as president and meaningful change will come to genders around the world. Aspire to this transformation, not more of the same frivolity. "Yawn".
8
Must be a slow day at the office, Ms. Dowd. Women owning their own sexuality is nothing new. Just look back to the free sex era of Haight Ashbury and Woodstock. What is different now is that mainstream television wants in on the action in order to claim that they are breaking new boundaries. Let's face it, the basics of human life seems to attract the most viewers including sex, eating and toilet jokes replete with toilet paper jokes.
In fact, if TV wanted to qualify for HBO status, they'd just need to adapt Lolita so she is considered normal and expressing her feminist power when at the ripe old age of 12 she spreads her legs poolside with an iced cold iced tea by her side. There wouldn't be any question about morality or whether she's too young to engage in such shocking behavior because this is her power that she's in touch with. If she decides to have an abortion, no big deal because it's her feminist right.
In fact, all movies and TV could be geared towards sexuality, violence and shocking behavior so the audience would be so satiated with it that they'd never have to question morality anymore. Stephen Hawkings in the Theory of Everything could be redone so its all about him having sex. Forget the boring stuff about physics and the theories of the universe. Ho-hum, the audience just wants to get to the juicy fly down and legs opened stuff that keeps people tuning in every week for more. This is the new feminist age after all.
In fact, if TV wanted to qualify for HBO status, they'd just need to adapt Lolita so she is considered normal and expressing her feminist power when at the ripe old age of 12 she spreads her legs poolside with an iced cold iced tea by her side. There wouldn't be any question about morality or whether she's too young to engage in such shocking behavior because this is her power that she's in touch with. If she decides to have an abortion, no big deal because it's her feminist right.
In fact, all movies and TV could be geared towards sexuality, violence and shocking behavior so the audience would be so satiated with it that they'd never have to question morality anymore. Stephen Hawkings in the Theory of Everything could be redone so its all about him having sex. Forget the boring stuff about physics and the theories of the universe. Ho-hum, the audience just wants to get to the juicy fly down and legs opened stuff that keeps people tuning in every week for more. This is the new feminist age after all.
21
I think A River Runs Through It with Robert Redford is playing on Turner Classic Movies right now. I am going to go watch it.
80
Only in America this is an Op-Ed column. It is sad to see people still finding unusual that women are sentient beings and in sex they do not miss a beat. Just rent almost any movie from the 60s by Bunuel or Bergman.
31
Where did all the raunch come from? I think of my Mother's and Grandmother's generations, World War II Rosie the Riveters and Rita Hayworth and more stars at MGM than in the heavens. And never was heard a discouraging word about poop and fart! What would my female forbears make of the potty mouths that speckle our social media and cellphones and everywhere we turn these days? Following is a fairy tale, for good girls:
The girl ran home to her mother, who met her at the door. "Well, daughter," she said, impatient to hear her speak. When she opened her mouth, to the mother's horror, two vipers and two toads sprang from it. "This is the fault of your wretched sister," the unhappy mother cried. She ran to beat the poor younger sister, who fled to the forest to escape. When she was past pursuit, she threw herself upon the grass and wept bitterly. The King's son, returning from the hunt, found her thus, and asked the cause of her tears. "My mother has driven me from my home," she told him. She was so pretty that he fell in love with her at once, and pressed her to tell him more. She then related to him the whole story, while pearls and diamonds kept falling from her lips. Enraptured, he took her to the King, who gave his consent to their immediate marriage. Meanwhile the ugly and selfish sister had made herself so disagreeable that even her own mother turned against her. She, too, was driven into the forest, where she died miserable and alone.
The girl ran home to her mother, who met her at the door. "Well, daughter," she said, impatient to hear her speak. When she opened her mouth, to the mother's horror, two vipers and two toads sprang from it. "This is the fault of your wretched sister," the unhappy mother cried. She ran to beat the poor younger sister, who fled to the forest to escape. When she was past pursuit, she threw herself upon the grass and wept bitterly. The King's son, returning from the hunt, found her thus, and asked the cause of her tears. "My mother has driven me from my home," she told him. She was so pretty that he fell in love with her at once, and pressed her to tell him more. She then related to him the whole story, while pearls and diamonds kept falling from her lips. Enraptured, he took her to the King, who gave his consent to their immediate marriage. Meanwhile the ugly and selfish sister had made herself so disagreeable that even her own mother turned against her. She, too, was driven into the forest, where she died miserable and alone.
5
Nan, as we used to say in the '60s, right on baby ! I'd sooner be sentenced to being staked to an an ant hill, having to stare 24-7 at a pin-up of Rita Hayworth til my dying breath than ever again having to be subjected to watching a Hollywood sex flick.
3
I had no idea that women not only are sexual creatures, but that they are able to use their sexuality to exploit themselves, er, I mean, promote themselves in the movies and TV shows they write, star in, and produce.
I need to get out more. No, actually I need to stay in more and watch way too much stuff I'm not interested in watching on big and small screens near me, like Ms. Dowd has been doing lately. As far as I can tell, the only difference here is that these women, such as Mindy Kaling and the ubiquitous Lena Dunham, are (gasp!) making these decisions on their own rather than having those patriarchal, tyrannical male producers, who have been keeping them barefoot and pregnant in movies for far too long now, tell them what to do.
I can't believe how long it has taken for women to begin to understand that exploiting themselves as sexual creatures is a good avenue for making money. This is not like the world's oldest profession, pornography. No, it isn't. I am also glad that women are beginning to understand that demonstrating their sexuality will increase the size of their viewing audiences. This is nothing like that dreadful field of male-dominated pornography. Heavens, no. How long ago was it that Hugh Hefner's daughter began to run his Playboy magazine? 1982? Really?
30
Funny how good sense and judgement disappear when sex is on the mind. From times immemorial sex has been the cause of downfall of great kings, emperors and world leaders. Sex clouds great minds so that they leave their intellect and professionalism at the bedroom door. Wily plots have been hatched in the bedroom to attain power. It has been the downfall of good people as well as the bad. Even the Church has not been spared. And it can also result in dangerous consequences for your men ,country and other civilians of the world. Remember a four or five (whatever!) general at the helm tweeting his sweetheart? Now that women are getting into the fray in Hollywood they are not ratcheting up the dial. They are doing just what the men in Hollywood have been doing all along. As females are breaking the glass ceiling to become directors, producers behind the camera refusing to be just pouting, pretty faces in front of it the men seem to feel threatened. Hollywood is playing to the basic instincts to get at the bottom line. No surprise there at all. The minute a boy or girl hits puberty sex is wired into their minds. And from there on it does not leave him/her until death do them apart.
7
Congratulations, now we have women who exploit themselves. Anything for a buck, commodified and monetized.
10
please hollywood - more wit, less raunch!
137
As a gay man, I found this column to be way too much information.
17
Too much gross information.
6
As a queer woman, I find the majority of any so-called LGBT media predominately features TMI re: gay men - to say nothing of surfeit of stories in other media focusing on the white male experience. You chose to read an article (and presumably continued to after the first red flag) dealing with female experiences of sex, sexuality and raunch. Too much information? Might I recommend you peruse any of the hundreds of other options available through the NYT and, you know, get over it?
2
An enthusiastic yes for more stories from the female point of view. It would be great to see more women writing, directing, and producing stories that are fun, interesting and provocative. But I have to say it is depressing if all we are going to get from these creative women is the Judd Apatow/Seth Rogen brand of dumbed-down, juvenile drug and sex drivel. Frat-boy humor or frat-girl humor - what is the difference? Most of it is just cringe-worthy. How about more intelligent humour from the female perspective? Kristen Wiig, Tina Fey and Amy Poehler don't need to wallow in scatological references to be funny.
311
As Robert H. Bork stated " We are continuing our slouching to Gomorrah". "We are a culture in decline, a nation in such serious moral trouble that its very foundation is crumbling."
43
"Serious moral trouble"?
Defined using what context?
Certainly not philosophical… perhaps you mean a sectarian or religious moral directive that is no longer the patriarchal law of the land which you find disturbing?
Do tell…
Defined using what context?
Certainly not philosophical… perhaps you mean a sectarian or religious moral directive that is no longer the patriarchal law of the land which you find disturbing?
Do tell…
6
He was right in his judgment, but Right in his prescription for treatment.
1
.
.
I had hoped to read in this piece some mention of the "underground" West Coast musical-comedy duo "Garfunkel and Oates", who have no lyrics I can repeat here.
One of the 2 women -- who perform and co-write all their material -- is Kate Micucci, who had an episode arc as Raj's girlfriend on Ms. Rauch's sitcom. (She's the short brunette; the other woman is a taller blonde; and they met when each was on a horrible first date with some guys, and the 2 women hit it off famously.)
Ms. Micucci gets in trouble just for accurate pronunciation of her surname.
Anyway, they are waaaay talented. I imagine they have done short films by now; I know they are on Youtube.
.
I had hoped to read in this piece some mention of the "underground" West Coast musical-comedy duo "Garfunkel and Oates", who have no lyrics I can repeat here.
One of the 2 women -- who perform and co-write all their material -- is Kate Micucci, who had an episode arc as Raj's girlfriend on Ms. Rauch's sitcom. (She's the short brunette; the other woman is a taller blonde; and they met when each was on a horrible first date with some guys, and the 2 women hit it off famously.)
Ms. Micucci gets in trouble just for accurate pronunciation of her surname.
Anyway, they are waaaay talented. I imagine they have done short films by now; I know they are on Youtube.
8
Interesting. The diarrhea scene in Bridesmaids was not funny in my opinion.
Women writers: stand up for yourselves!
Women writers: stand up for yourselves!
73
I think the scene in the brides shop as crass as it is, hit the highest comedy of an otherwise pretty ho hum movie. Poop is always funny. Usually a cheap laugh, this rises to hysteria. Loved it. It is human to worry about being stricken..that makes it funny.
1
It's not about being raunchy, it's about being clever and character-driven. I am all for women doing push-the-envelope, sexual or dirty jokes, that guys have been known for. But to bring Mindy and Lena into the mix is just wrong. They are neither clever nor character-driven. They just do shock for shock's sake and then bank on the media to make them known. Both shows have failed miserably in the ratings. "Mindy" is still on the air because NBC needs programming for Hulu so they bear a higher cost to produce the show, and Fox gets it cheap. "Girls" got a lot of hype when it first started and now Lena has actually become quite criticized by female writers all over L.A. Why? Because it's based on shock only. I've been involved with two successful cable tv comedies, both of which pushed the limits, but we made a point of making the bits part of the show... not the show.
39
As a therapist, I have tried to watch "Girls" but the main character seem cognitively impaired. I find nothing sexually wrong with the show, by any means, but these are not appealing folks I'd like to have in my life.
Secondly, I have never seen these other shows. There are just too many of them and I can only subscribe to so many. And I have only so much time to watch TV.
I do like Amy S. & Melissa McCarthy and their ability to address female sexuality. There's a long way we have to go to equalize male /female sexuality on the screen.
Ex: In "Into The Wood" has a male price proclaims, after having a female: "I was taught to be charming, not sincere." While he rides off on hi horse, the female character is punished promptly and dies. I tried to talk to men & women about it and no one understood what I was taking about? Very sad comment on how little has changed.
Secondly, I have never seen these other shows. There are just too many of them and I can only subscribe to so many. And I have only so much time to watch TV.
I do like Amy S. & Melissa McCarthy and their ability to address female sexuality. There's a long way we have to go to equalize male /female sexuality on the screen.
Ex: In "Into The Wood" has a male price proclaims, after having a female: "I was taught to be charming, not sincere." While he rides off on hi horse, the female character is punished promptly and dies. I tried to talk to men & women about it and no one understood what I was taking about? Very sad comment on how little has changed.
5
Yes, thank you Judd Apatow for having Melissa McCarthy take a dump in a sink. As a woman, I felt so liberated when I saw that.
So great that there is a race to the bottom in Hollywood and that that's considered progress for women.
So great that there is a race to the bottom in Hollywood and that that's considered progress for women.
320
Mo referencing "fart and poop" stories??
Can't wait for next Sunday!
Can't wait for next Sunday!
18
That the tone and language of our society and culture has become so debased, coarse and vile is hardly a news flash. That physically attractive women now routinely mouth hideously grotesque words and phrases is not a surprise either.
What started in modernity with May West and her off color and dirty-mouthed metaphors has now become so degraded as to be as bad as bad men have always been.
So-called pretty women uttering sickeningly vile and noisome words is really a tribute to the triumph or sin and horror in our once great and moral nation.
Ms. Dowd has not covered any new ground of described anything shocking or humorous at all. It is the same old sin that the Bible described as infecting Sodom.
What started in modernity with May West and her off color and dirty-mouthed metaphors has now become so degraded as to be as bad as bad men have always been.
So-called pretty women uttering sickeningly vile and noisome words is really a tribute to the triumph or sin and horror in our once great and moral nation.
Ms. Dowd has not covered any new ground of described anything shocking or humorous at all. It is the same old sin that the Bible described as infecting Sodom.
22
The reference to it not being rape in college was very interesting.
19
Bravo to all these frank and creative women, and let's have more who insist on defining their own experiences in the world, sexual and otherwise. Brilliant, raunchy or just plain dirty, they are claiming their rightful space.
2
I love the idea of women being "real" about their sexual experiences. It'll make us feel less alone. And giving the female orgasm more air time may be helpful to guys. Amazing how many men don't even attempt!
7
This generation is a reliable disappointment. This group considers Beyonce a feminist. I understand a movement evolves, yet they can't begin to articulate themselves beyond the genitalia.
94
As I told a friend of mine years ago when we walked out in the middle of an X-rated movie, "I just can't appreciate sex as a spectator sport. It's either participate, or forget it!"
24
Okay, so it's still Apatow overseeing things (in "Girls" and "Trainwreck". Each generation of women likes to think they have discovered the female orgasm.
8
Just what the republic desperately needs.
New women pulling a Meg Ryan on film.
New women pulling a Meg Ryan on film.
7
Wow, Maureen.
I was expecting something on the lives of Father Hesburgh and Leonard Nimoy, or maybe Iranian nuclear enrichment.
Moms masturbating with their toddler's teddy bears?
Sorry, TMI.
I was expecting something on the lives of Father Hesburgh and Leonard Nimoy, or maybe Iranian nuclear enrichment.
Moms masturbating with their toddler's teddy bears?
Sorry, TMI.
96
It is always useful and rewarding to read a column documenting a significant and perhaps permanent shift in American popular culture by one of our shrewdest and sharpest observers. Ms. Dowd's interviews amply demonstrate that it is indeed a new day in film and (cable) TV; "Sex and the City" really did break new ground ~15 years ago and it is refreshing to see how the incredibly talented producers, writers, and actors of this era are making their own mark. Dirty words emanate from pretty mouths just as they do from the far less pretty. I think it is also especially relevant that younger women see themselves in these roles as they watch these newer, hilarious shows. So many of these women act and write with a fearlessness that is wonderful to behold. Marvelously, many would agree with Amy Poehler in full: they don't (expletive) care if you like it because it is their view of the world. Yes, we know, somewhere Christopher Hitchens and his ilk still don't think women are funny. That's their loss. Mindy Kaling and Lena Dunham, particularly in the way they deftly deal with at times very personal criticism, are real exemplars of grace and models for the next generation to follow. Too many men for too long have not "got" female humor; it really isn't raunchier as Ms. Cummings notes, it's just something we're (still) not used to seeing on a regular basis. These successes will likely lead to more female directors and more positive, powerful female roles in major films (at some point).
4
Sex sells, you can bet on it... Mr. Guest.
1
American popular culture? really. After 72 years in America, I have found that the culture that was played up in the media as "popular" or common was very distant from any culture I observed in reality. If popular means that a very few extremists in culture are doing things that excite the press into coverage, then OK. If popular means that something is liked, admired and enjoyed by many people, then not OK. Try to think of things in context and history rather than front of eyes and ears if you want to know what is actually happening in culture.
2
Why does the title of this article remind me of the Elvis Costello song "Two Little Hitlers"?
And why is everyone getting so into sex and porn? Porn and the on-screen "raunch" discussed here have nothing to do with real relationships. Not only that, but porn and raunch re-program the brain so that after a while you can't get off any other way, which severely interferes with a real relationship.
And why is everyone getting so into sex and porn? Porn and the on-screen "raunch" discussed here have nothing to do with real relationships. Not only that, but porn and raunch re-program the brain so that after a while you can't get off any other way, which severely interferes with a real relationship.
70
Charles,
Please don't suggest that the meaning of the Elvis Costello song "Two Little Hitlers" can actually be ascertained. I wracked my teenage brain trying to figure out the meanings of those inscrutable and songs. Decades later I learned Costello's process for writing songs - just snippets of overheard conversations with additional layers written alongside.
Still a great tune.
Please don't suggest that the meaning of the Elvis Costello song "Two Little Hitlers" can actually be ascertained. I wracked my teenage brain trying to figure out the meanings of those inscrutable and songs. Decades later I learned Costello's process for writing songs - just snippets of overheard conversations with additional layers written alongside.
Still a great tune.
I'm all for testing cultural boundaries but cracking wise about dildos is, in and of itself, no more amusing than your typical Jay Leno monologue. And that goes double for pathetic innuendo-and-laugh-track laden network "comedies" like Two Broke Girls. If you're not even permitted to utter a commonplace four-letter word that every adolescent in the Bible Belt makes use of twelve times a day please don't pretend to be all edgy and worldly: there's nothing more tedious than faux sophistication.
149
Trash is trash independent of which gender is peddling it. Sounds like this is merely a product of 50 shades and selfies, served up to a bored and boring public.
10
I don't know why it should surprise people that women are very sexual creatures, and think about it almost as much as guys do. When it comes to the sex depicted in the movies you listed, though, it sounds a little commercial and pornographic to me.
There's nothing wrong with that, but some of us like the romantic, imaginative, and delicate kind a little more. That's harder to show in a movie, and it should be. There's something cheap about remembering and then simulating love in front of a camera. Let's instead let both male and female raunchy directors pummel us with grabbing and writhing coupling scenes, while the rest of us seek the loving kind, which is much, much more fun.
There's nothing wrong with that, but some of us like the romantic, imaginative, and delicate kind a little more. That's harder to show in a movie, and it should be. There's something cheap about remembering and then simulating love in front of a camera. Let's instead let both male and female raunchy directors pummel us with grabbing and writhing coupling scenes, while the rest of us seek the loving kind, which is much, much more fun.
115
And once again, an onslaught of female NY Times readers descend upon the sleepy shores of Chula Vista, demanding to know where Roddy rests.
2
It's easy to use a broad brush,
To subtlety we cry pish tush,
Vulgar, outrageous,
Has become contagious,
And wit, now, makes nobody gush.
To subtlety we cry pish tush,
Vulgar, outrageous,
Has become contagious,
And wit, now, makes nobody gush.
116
No one ever accused me of being a prude, and those of us who played in North Beach in the late 50s, never had doubts about women's sexuality..
The great majority of them let it be known one way or another whether or not, you excited them. But today's culture of flaunting your kinky sexual proclivities leaves something to be desired. The mystery of satisfying some sex partner was, exciting. When there is nothing left to be discovered, it is like, "so what's new?"
Let me explore what turns you on, and you do the same, and we have some good laughs while doing it. Porno movies are just plain boring, and whatever these people are doing on screen, is an appeal to voyeurism, it is like being a legal peeping tom.
The great majority of them let it be known one way or another whether or not, you excited them. But today's culture of flaunting your kinky sexual proclivities leaves something to be desired. The mystery of satisfying some sex partner was, exciting. When there is nothing left to be discovered, it is like, "so what's new?"
Let me explore what turns you on, and you do the same, and we have some good laughs while doing it. Porno movies are just plain boring, and whatever these people are doing on screen, is an appeal to voyeurism, it is like being a legal peeping tom.
163
There was more power in Rhett Butler carrying his wife Scarlett Ohara up the long winding staircase than in any filthy talk or naked scenes, and his
"I don't give a d_ _ m" was stronger than all the foul language the creative cretins can come up with.
Look around and see where American culture stands and tremble and shudder.
Debra Hauser, president of Advocates for Youth stated that "Ninety-five (95%) percent of all Americans have sex before marriage. About half of all young people begin having sex by age 17."
One out of three single girls is pregnant. 55 million abortions since Roe vs. Wade.
"Entertainment" that through your TV or computer flushes the toilet into your living room.
Naked actors in the movie houses, stage, opera, in the streets.
Insanity rules.
No morality, no country.
Read about the ancient world empires that lost their moral bearings. You can now find these decadent cultures with a bulldozer buried under the sands of time.
Do we want to join them?
4
Yes, David, even as a developing young boy, in the 50's, I felt the intrigue oozing from every sensual pore of the fully clad Jane Russell, in "The Revolt of Mamie Stover." One needn't see any more skin.
5
The former Justice Potter Stewart, attempting to define pornography, said "I know it when I see it." A lot of people like pornography, more men than women, and a lot of people produce and sell it. That women are now in the business of producing and selling pornography says nothing about sexuality. What passes for entertainment in different venues--on stage, on broadcast television, on cable television, in movie theaters--is less restricted than ever before. Where some once saw pornography others see art, or humor, or simply depictions of human behavior.
I am not saying that the shows listed in this article are pornographic. I haven't seen any of them. I am saying that the voyeuristic impulse is the same even if the scenes are less explicit. But don't tell me that raunchy, crude sex scenes are expressions of honest sexuality, male or female. Sex sells and everyone wants to cash in on the bonanza.
I am not saying that the shows listed in this article are pornographic. I haven't seen any of them. I am saying that the voyeuristic impulse is the same even if the scenes are less explicit. But don't tell me that raunchy, crude sex scenes are expressions of honest sexuality, male or female. Sex sells and everyone wants to cash in on the bonanza.
216
Minor point: Justice Stewart was actually addressing the difficulty of defining "obscenity," a broader classification. Allegedly hard-core pornography was the specific type of alleged obscenity at issue in the case.
Yeah! More power to the women who feel empowered by acting as gross as the guys, even if they must work for a studio or TV network owned by the predatory, male-dominated Wall Street and corporate plutocracy.
If they ever stop to think that there are millions of boys and men out there getting off watching them get off, they obviously don't give a bleep. Why should they? They live in gated communities with private security guards.
But here's what I want to know: does a woman actress who makes it with a stuffed animal get paid the same amount of money as a man who makes it with a stuffed animal?
I can see the landmark Supreme Court case now. Old Clarence will gift us with one of his rare verbal ejaculations, Scalia will go limp with shock, Sammy will withdraw from the case entirely, John Roberts will prematurely recuse himself and Kennedy will just waggle back and forth, keeping us all in hot unbearable suspense.
And then Notorious RBG will whip them all into shape with her usual scathing review. Bring it on.
If they ever stop to think that there are millions of boys and men out there getting off watching them get off, they obviously don't give a bleep. Why should they? They live in gated communities with private security guards.
But here's what I want to know: does a woman actress who makes it with a stuffed animal get paid the same amount of money as a man who makes it with a stuffed animal?
I can see the landmark Supreme Court case now. Old Clarence will gift us with one of his rare verbal ejaculations, Scalia will go limp with shock, Sammy will withdraw from the case entirely, John Roberts will prematurely recuse himself and Kennedy will just waggle back and forth, keeping us all in hot unbearable suspense.
And then Notorious RBG will whip them all into shape with her usual scathing review. Bring it on.
378
"Notorious RBG" thanks for the laugh. Now every time I see her, I will imagine her as that even if she is slumped over from too many brandies during the next "State of the Union Suit" speech.
3
It wasn't that long ago that a woman's exposed ankle was enough to make respectable folk get the vapours and head for the fainting couch. Obviously times change, but there seems to be a chasm between an honest recognition of sexual reality and the tyranny of the prude. There's an awful lot of hypocrisy between the two, especially when stalwart members of the Moral Majority were found to be anything but. While Bill Clinton was being impeached for sexual impropriety, Newt Gingrich was gettin' biz-Zay with his current squeeze, much to his then-wife's surprise.
It is a well-known fact that women have been having sex since the 1960s, and I guess by now it's officially more than just a fad. There's always a time after each new freedom is won that a certain friskiness prevails, and bare ankles are flaunted or bras are burned or risqué situations on TV get a bit gratuitous. Some shows, like Fox's Family Guy, use sophisticated and ruthless social satire to puncture the moronic attitudes we have about sex. Some, like 2 Broke Girls, are strings of lame dirty jokes that insult the intelligence of the audience, and that don't do the actors' comedic skills justice.
Eventually, after 50 or 100 more shades of Gray, and lots more rope and lengths of chain, we'll get the idea that women are sexual creatures, too, and things will settle down. As an unexpected benefit, Ace Hardware's stock will soar. Buy it while you can.
It is a well-known fact that women have been having sex since the 1960s, and I guess by now it's officially more than just a fad. There's always a time after each new freedom is won that a certain friskiness prevails, and bare ankles are flaunted or bras are burned or risqué situations on TV get a bit gratuitous. Some shows, like Fox's Family Guy, use sophisticated and ruthless social satire to puncture the moronic attitudes we have about sex. Some, like 2 Broke Girls, are strings of lame dirty jokes that insult the intelligence of the audience, and that don't do the actors' comedic skills justice.
Eventually, after 50 or 100 more shades of Gray, and lots more rope and lengths of chain, we'll get the idea that women are sexual creatures, too, and things will settle down. As an unexpected benefit, Ace Hardware's stock will soar. Buy it while you can.
175
The conversation has started. I am sure it will improve and become enlightening.
4
@Gemli: Don't you mean, "It has been a well known fact since the 60s that women have been having sex"?
3
@anne,
Actually, this was a bit of sarcasm. I was referring to the so-called sexual revolution of the '60s, when people suddenly realized (to their horror, if you read Ross Douthat) that women were sexual beings. At the time, this was as shocking as anything in 50 Shades of Gray, but somehow society recovered.
Actually, this was a bit of sarcasm. I was referring to the so-called sexual revolution of the '60s, when people suddenly realized (to their horror, if you read Ross Douthat) that women were sexual beings. At the time, this was as shocking as anything in 50 Shades of Gray, but somehow society recovered.
4
This type of women's liberation can do nothing but be good for society, much to consternation and concern of the misogyny caucus who will fretfully condemn sexual honesty as religious hellfire.
Sir Ross Douhat had to be rushed to the hospital while reading this Dowd column.
We all wish him a speedy recovery so he can return to his righteous soapbox and roundly denounce this type bacchanal behavior as the end of civilization.
Happy masturbating to one and all !